**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Jan 14 02:59:57 2009 Jan 14 03:12:56 GeneralAntilles: east or west coast? Jan 14 03:13:19 I'm East coast Jan 14 03:14:03 * towo tries to imagine GeneralAntilles doing the "E" with his fingers. Jan 14 03:14:44 and If I can ask, how you are so involved with nokia? Jan 14 03:15:34 ciroip, I'm not sure I understand the question. Is that "How did you get where you are now?" or "How do you have the time?" Jan 14 03:16:03 How did you get where you are now? :) Jan 14 03:16:50 I just involved myself. Jan 14 03:17:00 Hung out here, participated on itT and the lists Jan 14 03:17:02 nice answer Jan 14 03:17:04 Started doing stuff. Jan 14 03:17:21 si, I mean, everything online Jan 14 03:17:22 Started triaging on Bugzilla, writing for and organizing the wiki. Jan 14 03:17:47 I didn't get to LinuxTag or the Summit. Jan 14 03:18:03 The whole of my participation in Maemo is community-related and digital. ;) Jan 14 03:32:27 I did it !!! I'm booting from internal mmc :D Jan 14 03:37:24 lol Jan 14 03:37:31 how did you do it TheFatal Jan 14 03:37:34 and what d id you use Jan 14 03:38:38 I used pb Jan 14 03:39:13 ah yes Jan 14 03:39:15 you know Jan 14 03:39:19 pbeasy is even easier Jan 14 03:43:53 Yes, but is too easy :P like ubuntu... If we have no difficult, it is borring Jan 14 03:44:24 If it has no difficult i wanna say Jan 14 04:02:57 What is ncurses-base ?? Jan 14 04:50:04 hello Jan 14 04:53:53 hey AFBN810 Jan 14 05:55:01 anybody still switched on? Jan 14 05:57:25 LopLiii: barely ;) Jan 14 05:57:54 ahh there you are Jan 14 05:58:22 wht do u use r2d2 as maemo platform? Jan 14 05:58:40 the 770 Jan 14 05:59:07 have two, one with OS2008HE, and one I'm participating in the testing on Mer Jan 14 06:00:46 im gonna buy one of 770/800/810 and found that the price differ is about 100usd of each model, if you are me what do you gonna buy? Jan 14 06:01:27 what do you want to do with it? Jan 14 06:01:46 I personally am hard on my personal mobile devices, Jan 14 06:01:56 so I stick withthe 770 and it's metal slip cover Jan 14 06:02:14 but the 800 appeals for it's dual SDcard slots Jan 14 06:02:50 I like the idea of the 810, but I'm not a fan of some of their design choices, and I haven't seen one in person Jan 14 06:03:01 about the issue of 770 being said that is just too much bug inside, do you agree with tht? Jan 14 06:03:27 or i think its only about how we got it set...? Jan 14 06:03:59 LopLiii: the original OS was quite buggy, but I've gotten mine to an acceptable level of usefulness, even while I help with getting something better available Jan 14 06:04:22 I use my 770 for ebooks, random netowrk lookups and ssh terminal use Jan 14 06:04:55 The 770 is just plain slow. Jan 14 06:06:31 hi GeneralAntilles Jan 14 06:06:48 Jan 14 06:06:55 LopLiii: he is right about that Jan 14 06:07:28 especially compares to the N8x0s Jan 14 06:07:52 Do you prefer 800 or 810 with a 100$ gap? Jan 14 06:09:26 N800 Jan 14 06:09:33 Unless hardware keyboards are really damn important to you. Jan 14 06:09:37 personally I'd probably go N800, but I have a bluetooth keyboard and GPS reciever already Jan 14 06:10:26 I wish the 5800 were offered subsidized. . . . Jan 14 06:11:50 hmhm, is there a thinkwiki.org for nXXX ? Jan 14 06:13:23 http://wiki.maemo.org/ Jan 14 06:20:42 thx guys Jan 14 06:23:05 np Jan 14 06:23:20 Good ngiht Jan 14 06:40:32 moo all Jan 14 06:40:46 General: they are relatively cheap unsubsidized Jan 14 06:45:54 RST38h, relatively, but not cheap enough. Jan 14 06:46:17 It's $500 from Amazon, $350 from one of the flagship stores. Jan 14 06:47:05 RST38h, you like yours, though? Jan 14 06:59:57 General: It is pretty nice Jan 14 07:00:39 General: Not stellar, not shiny, UI has got a few problems, but nice. It is not an N- product too, so it is built cheaply but well Jan 14 07:00:50 I was looking at the Samsung Eternity, but it really doesn't stack up. Jan 14 07:01:22 Oh, by the way, I dunno if you found out already, but apparently it's a 369MHz ARM11 of some sort. Jan 14 07:01:25 ouldn't go with Samsung if you want a smartphone Jan 14 07:01:44 Not after a smartphone Jan 14 07:01:47 Nobody tells WHAT SoC is used in 5800. No idea why, but it sounds like ahuge secret Jan 14 07:02:07 General: then something like Samsung U100 will do the job Jan 14 07:02:14 7mm thick, dumb phone Jan 14 07:02:20 pairs with N8x0 Jan 14 07:02:43 Yeah, I've already got that. Jan 14 07:02:46 SGH-A717 Jan 14 07:03:20 But it's time to renew and I'd like something new. Jan 14 07:03:49 BTW, no book reader for 5800 yet. There is a beta build of QReader but it has got a few problems Jan 14 07:04:30 You can try E63 (really chip phone, qwerty, s60) Jan 14 07:04:48 s/chip/cheap/ mhm Jan 14 07:05:03 ok, off to work Jan 14 07:28:41 * GeneralAntilles looks at the 6650. Jan 14 07:33:02 Sargun: Have you had your vi today? Jan 14 07:35:45 wth Jan 14 07:44:19 i wish there was amarok for n810 Jan 14 07:44:22 =( Jan 14 07:44:26 i <3 crossfading Jan 14 08:06:43 Mousey, should be able to compile it now that we have Qt ... but how would it look on an 800x480 window? Jan 14 08:07:00 AWESOME AND WIN Jan 14 08:07:01 that's how Jan 14 08:07:33 it's themeable, so i don't see why the resolution would be an issue, also, it has a player window as well as the playlist window, so we can do like xmms.. Jan 14 08:07:38 also, 800x480 is PLENTY Jan 14 08:08:41 everytime I see screenshots it looks like it wants to take up about 1024x800 at minimum Jan 14 08:09:16 try resizing the window on your desktop, see how small it gets before it's snot useful. Also: check memory usage :) Jan 14 08:10:38 * StsN800 tries to convince himself to get up Jan 14 08:11:47 * GeneralAntilles throws pennies at StsN800. Jan 14 08:12:05 StsN800, at what point did we end up on the same schedule? O_o Jan 14 08:12:39 johnx, i fell asleep 1-2 hours after you Jan 14 08:13:15 and I've been up for ~40 minutes. about to head out to work. back in ~7 hours Jan 14 08:14:27 bye Jan 14 08:14:37 johnx, similar Jan 14 08:18:29 morning all Jan 14 08:24:17 morning Jan 14 08:30:35 hm Jan 14 08:30:45 qt went lgpl Jan 14 08:37:53 morn meiz Jan 14 08:42:47 General: There is one more possibility I missed: E51 ($200 and up) Jan 14 08:57:11 RST38h, I'm looking at http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/reviews/item/Nokia_6650.php Jan 14 08:57:26 Which I can get for somewhere around $0-$70 depending on what I can talk them down to. Jan 14 08:58:26 GeneralAntilles: that looks rather nice for a nokia phone Jan 14 08:58:53 aquatix, I had overlooked it a couple times on the AT&T site not realizing it was S60. Jan 14 08:59:04 heh, yeah Jan 14 08:59:20 But I really prefer clamshells. Jan 14 09:00:19 clamshells are nice Jan 14 09:00:28 and this one looks rather cool indeed Jan 14 09:00:47 those prices you talked about are with a subscription i guess? Jan 14 09:01:28 General: Looks cool, as long as the form factor is good with you Jan 14 09:01:35 (and I guess it is, given the previous model) Jan 14 09:01:59 aquatix, they have different discount rates for new customers and existing customers, sadly. Jan 14 09:02:01 Steel shell too. Jan 14 09:02:04 (2-year contract) Jan 14 09:02:16 But I've never had trouble talking them into giving me the new customer price. Jan 14 09:02:37 Dialpad may be uncomfortable (Razr dialpad is terribly uncomfortable) Jan 14 09:03:14 I've already got a flat-plastic dialpad, so not a huge issue: http://common.ziffdavisinternet.com/util_get_image/18/0,1425,i=184835,00.jpg Jan 14 09:03:22 Relatively decent camera quality Jan 14 09:03:53 Never use the camera on any cellphone. Jan 14 09:05:26 Besides, I'll be using the nice 5MP on the back of the RX-51 if any. ;) Jan 14 09:05:46 god bless cameras on cellphones Jan 14 09:06:42 I'm also not planning on attending any political rallies or police-brutality seminars anytime soon. ;) Jan 14 09:10:35 get ready for some fun, GeneralAntilles Jan 14 09:18:06 Morning, all Jan 14 09:18:14 Morning.. Jan 14 09:23:22 General: You need cameras for those? Jan 14 09:23:45 * RST38h always thought that only weed was the requirement... Jan 14 09:24:03 RST38h, it's a great thing to have when things go sour. Jan 14 09:24:21 ah Jan 14 09:24:52 The police does not confiscate cameras yet? Seems like the first logical thing to do Jan 14 09:25:29 They can try, but they don't have a right to. Jan 14 09:25:51 Well, I remember them prohibiting the use of masks (including gas masks) Jan 14 09:26:22 Under some bogus counter-terrorism reason Jan 14 09:28:16 we need mesh networking Jan 14 09:28:46 you first need enogh nodes for that Jan 14 09:33:10 hmm, weird, is the keyboardbacklight on even if its pushed in in the n810? Jan 14 09:33:17 looking from the side it seems there is some light Jan 14 09:35:07 non sense Jan 14 09:36:20 pupnik_: explain Jan 14 09:36:32 how do you push in a backlight Jan 14 09:36:57 i push in by keyboard, which is backlit Jan 14 09:37:15 then the light goes on, yes? Jan 14 09:37:34 the backlight of the keyboard is on, yes Jan 14 09:37:44 wasting energy Jan 14 09:37:49 then it goes off Jan 14 09:37:58 nope Jan 14 09:38:09 ah ok Jan 14 09:38:38 if i lock screen and keyboard the backlight of the tft turns off Jan 14 09:39:01 but the keyboard is still on (i can look through the little space beside the mini-sd slot) Jan 14 09:39:59 that is not good Jan 14 09:40:19 true, thats what i figured, can you reproduce the same behavior? Jan 14 09:40:26 or lemme check the bugtracker first Jan 14 09:40:31 not with my device Jan 14 09:40:54 Lol ... http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=257452&postcount=146 Jan 14 09:41:22 X-Fade, I about choked to death when I read that. Jan 14 09:41:39 Heh, yeah pretty funny :) Jan 14 09:43:26 it is all nice and funny except that marketing department's definition of "usable" or "functional" does not necessarily coincides with yours or mine Jan 14 09:43:27 lol Jan 14 09:44:03 As a good example see N95 pushed as a "blogging phone". Not a lot of people use it for that. Jan 14 09:45:41 it's ok for photobloggin Jan 14 09:45:57 i used n70 a lot for direct-to-flicker stuff Jan 14 09:45:58 `but I can confidently predict that battery life will be very long indeed - expect to go 3 or 4 days between charges unless you make heavy use of the GPS' wait what? Jan 14 09:46:06 since when is 3-4 days `very long' Jan 14 09:46:27 aquatix: modern phones battery lifes are pretty much dependandt on how much use it gets Jan 14 09:46:34 true Jan 14 09:46:39 Let's send 'em a couple of Psion Series 5s (or 3's) Jan 14 09:46:41 so speaking in days is usually quite meaningless Jan 14 09:46:48 but this is about a regular s60 clamshell without wifi Jan 14 09:47:04 Jaffa: my old sony clie did 1 month on a battery :) Jan 14 09:47:33 but I also have had phones that worked for a week straight Jan 14 09:48:16 philips 9@9 standbytime <3 Jan 14 09:50:01 for example :) Jan 14 09:50:13 this is about a symbian phone of course, but still ;) Jan 14 09:51:03 oh right, no direct comparison then =) Jan 14 10:00:33 good morning Jan 14 10:07:04 what's with the emails on -users? Jan 14 10:07:12 asking about an n8x0 with 3G... Jan 14 10:07:23 hmm, do they not read, or listen, n900... Jan 14 10:08:16 lardman: They want a retrofit obviously ;) Jan 14 10:08:30 well, I'd say it'd be ok with a n900 too Jan 14 10:08:35 if only it existed :) Jan 14 10:09:32 ah, so that's the issue is it, the fact that they think an n810 + 3G could be manufactured and released sooner than the n900... hmm Jan 14 10:09:33 Corsac: Oh, I'm sure it exists ;) Jan 14 10:09:50 Corsac: On some development floor in a certain Nokia building.. Jan 14 10:10:11 Corsac: Only they won't show it nor talk about it of course :D Jan 14 10:10:32 i kinda admire nokia's ability to keep things inside though Jan 14 10:10:37 that must be a bitch to administer Jan 14 10:10:44 X-Fade: yeah but I meant a released product ;p Jan 14 10:10:49 I want another goddamn camera phone leak. :( Jan 14 10:11:04 which I'd really like too Jan 14 10:11:14 as I wonder if I shoiuld buy an n810 now Jan 14 10:11:47 As opposed to waiting a few months for something that's at least twice as powerful? Jan 14 10:12:32 okay. my work Word is -so- not going to commit suicide today. got a article to write the next 2 days. Jan 14 10:12:55 save often Jan 14 10:13:00 Stskeeps: write the article in a text editor, than copy to word and mark up? Jan 14 10:13:06 or just use latex ;) Jan 14 10:13:18 Use svn/git for versioning ;) Jan 14 10:13:23 or clay tablets, probably faster than latex Jan 14 10:13:31 * aquatix uses .tex files and svn for his papers Jan 14 10:13:36 lardman: tsk ;) Jan 14 10:13:38 aquatix: yeah, and i do normally too Jan 14 10:13:42 but i was lazy this time around Jan 14 10:13:45 aquatix: :) Jan 14 10:14:02 Turn on autosaving? Jan 14 10:14:23 If you are not doing anything special or including images, LaTeX will do the job Jan 14 10:14:32 Otherwise - WordPad and save in RTF Jan 14 10:14:53 lardman, -users is just silly. Jan 14 10:14:55 End of story. Jan 14 10:14:55 does word crash for you often? Jan 14 10:15:00 GeneralAntilles: yeah Jan 14 10:15:02 GeneralAntilles: yeah Jan 14 10:15:17 lardman: For me, anything bigger than 20 pages or so crashes Word Jan 14 10:15:18 GeneralAntilles: especially since I dont know for which value of “a few months” Jan 14 10:15:28 RST38h: oh, nasty Jan 14 10:15:31 Corsac, Summer 2009. Jan 14 10:15:32 and n900 will be clearly more expensive than 300€ Jan 14 10:15:44 lardman: Sometimes, when I start using "features" like tables, images, formulas, it dies earlier Jan 14 10:15:53 * lardman wonders what an a-acute || is? Jan 14 10:15:55 GeneralAntilles: for example september 20? Jan 14 10:15:57 :) Jan 14 10:16:12 Corsac: You will only be able to pay for it in albanian dinars Jan 14 10:16:19 Corsac, the Beta SDK is coming in May. Jan 14 10:16:20 :) Jan 14 10:16:29 Corsac: So, start buying those dinars off eBay like *right now*. Jan 14 10:16:29 Stskeeps: OOo writer might be an option even Jan 14 10:16:38 Extrapolate what you will about the hardware release date. Jan 14 10:16:42 RST38h: Word has served reasonably well for me, only thing that goes wrong with large documents (>100 pages or so I guess) is page+section breaks start going strange Jan 14 10:16:43 RST38h: or british pounds :) Jan 14 10:16:48 Corsac, but be aware, the N810 is basically EoL. Jan 14 10:16:59 mhm ok Jan 14 10:17:07 * aquatix wants an N900 Jan 14 10:17:11 * Corsac too Jan 14 10:17:12 * lardman too! Jan 14 10:17:15 but *now* Jan 14 10:17:17 gf can have my n810 :) Jan 14 10:17:18 :) Jan 14 10:17:23 lardman: Well, tabs, whitespaces, page breaks never worked right for me in Word Jan 14 10:17:24 Corsac, I'd say do it if you can find an N800 or N810 for under $200. Jan 14 10:17:25 well, at least before fosdem Jan 14 10:17:28 :) Jan 14 10:17:33 Corsac: nah, i can wait for a few months if they create it well then Jan 14 10:17:35 heh Jan 14 10:17:43 lardman: Word has some "ideas" about them that do not coincide with what I want to do most of the time Jan 14 10:17:47 yeah but you have a n810 already :) Jan 14 10:17:48 had that crave last fosdem ;) Jan 14 10:18:05 had my n810 just in time Jan 14 10:18:27 RST38h: unfortunately, c'est la vie Jan 14 10:18:43 thankfully there are alternatives Jan 14 10:18:53 except not on our intranet Jan 14 10:23:38 lardman: Microsoft can have its "la vie" and stick it up their collective le cul Jan 14 10:24:35 lol Jan 14 10:27:09 not to mention the evil of the intel 8088 Jan 14 10:27:16 segment:offset broke my brain Jan 14 10:27:47 pupnik: you call THAT evil? Jan 14 10:28:10 give me a break, i was 13 Jan 14 10:28:35 hehe Jan 14 10:28:43 motorola 68000 was at least non-sick Jan 14 10:28:43 http://www.x86.org/ddj/aug98/aug98.htm Jan 14 10:28:50 johnx: affirmative on the backspace crashing Xorg Jan 14 10:28:52 oh... Qt 4.5 will be LGPL licensed! Jan 14 10:29:03 Finally Jan 14 10:29:23 * RST38h praises Nokia for doing the right and obvious thing Jan 14 10:29:30 oh good lord Jan 14 10:29:53 pupnik <-- evidently followed the x86.org url Jan 14 10:30:23 heh Jan 14 10:30:50 Do I finally have to learn Qt?! ;) Jan 14 10:33:10 is there anything to learn? Jan 14 10:54:32 pupnik_: under which category would i file the keyboard backlight problem? Jan 14 10:54:51 core? Jan 14 10:55:06 i have no idea Jan 14 10:57:51 x29a: dsme probably Jan 14 11:00:15 RST38h: dsme? Jan 14 11:26:35 noon all) Jan 14 11:27:51 morning Jan 14 11:30:10 hm, who was the author/maintainer of the system load applet again? Jan 14 11:30:24 i liked his version that flashed the led while screenshotting Jan 14 11:30:30 instead of having the icon disappear Jan 14 11:30:43 osso-statusbar-cpu? Jan 14 11:30:58 load-applet Jan 14 11:31:03 yeah, load-applet Jan 14 11:31:12 i don't have my tablet on my currently :( Jan 14 11:38:07 * Stskeeps notes that exam reading doesn't get better of the professor you're going to exam with bursting into your office Jan 14 11:38:44 hehe Jan 14 11:43:30 moo, wazd Jan 14 11:44:31 Sts: Is he going to devour you alive or just suck your brains through a cocktail straw? Jan 14 11:45:39 RST38h: same guy has been in here for various scary reasons, involving different cables and this time around, information on a CS course on CS science theory :P Jan 14 11:47:50 Sts: he needs an information on CS from his students? Mmm Jan 14 11:48:16 to his defense, it is a bitch getting information from the people running the course Jan 14 11:48:22 which is on another institute Jan 14 11:48:40 Somebody or something has forced Apple to start approving web browser apps Jan 14 11:49:01 Sts: You should befriend him then and hope for favors during exam :) Jan 14 11:49:05 something called public opinion? Jan 14 11:49:23 aquatix: When was THAT figuring as a factor? Jan 14 11:50:03 dunno Jan 14 11:50:04 RST38h: it's already horrible enough my former boss is the censor Jan 14 11:50:16 RST38h: was the only thing i could think about though Jan 14 11:50:22 or steve jobs wanted to try fennec Jan 14 11:50:45 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIutgtzwhAc - omg, thats hilarious :) Jan 14 11:51:15 wazd: ah yes :) Jan 14 11:51:26 i like the acting of those guys ;) Jan 14 11:51:55 Sts: censor in what meaning? Jan 14 11:52:08 RST38h: well, in our system there's the examiner and the counterpart, the censor Jan 14 11:52:26 the censor is external to the institute usually, and the examiner and the censor has to agree on the grade for the exam Jan 14 11:52:59 and the censor can in the end override the examiners wish for a grade, but they have to document everything during the exam Jan 14 11:53:09 if there was a complaint over the grade eventually, etc Jan 14 11:54:21 Sts: Ah, I see Jan 14 11:55:57 Hehe, airplane tickets got *way* cheaper now =) Jan 14 11:56:46 johnx|zaurus: backspace in xorg happens to me too btw Jan 14 11:56:56 bah Jan 14 11:57:02 maybe it's similar problem as b-mans Jan 14 11:57:07 $&'$)ing keymap stuff Jan 14 11:57:28 johnx|zaurus: on the positive side your auto-startx and first boot wizard works flawlessly Jan 14 11:57:54 Stskeeps: b-man's poblem sounds the same as we had in debian/deblet before the HAL .fdi is added Jan 14 11:58:14 never say flawlessly Jan 14 11:58:23 hehe Jan 14 11:58:28 it will break with the wrong input I know Jan 14 11:58:34 ; rm -rf? Jan 14 11:58:35 ;) Jan 14 11:58:40 or better yet Jan 14 11:58:43 ; utelnetd! Jan 14 11:58:43 :P Jan 14 11:59:19 johnx|zaurus: i use ubuntu HAL, btw Jan 14 11:59:25 not maemo Jan 14 12:00:05 right, which is why b-man's problem confuses me Jan 14 12:00:11 a lot Jan 14 12:00:35 http://www.vivalinux.com.ar/eventos/debian-lenny-con-firmware-propietario Jan 14 12:00:40 checking .xsession-errors Jan 14 12:00:46 (this is a file we want to put in /tmp ..) Jan 14 12:00:59 but there is some other keymap weirdness happening to my zaurus to Jan 14 12:01:24 BTW, really close to a workable vga layout :) Jan 14 12:01:26 maybe the problem is that we don't have a keymap Jan 14 12:02:15 johnx|zaurus: i added r2d2rogers to mer-committers btw Jan 14 12:02:23 we obviously have something, but for example xev on my zaurus shows enter producing the right keysym but it does nothing in roxterm Jan 14 12:02:42 getting used to ctrl-m Jan 14 12:03:36 hmm...so mer has no keymap or HAL changes vs ubuntu, right? Jan 14 12:04:55 correct Jan 14 12:05:33 so odd Jan 14 12:05:40 I kinda hate x keymap stuff Jan 14 12:05:43 hehe Jan 14 12:05:58 I really want to tell it 'just use the console keymap' Jan 14 12:06:35 the whole thing was insane before HAL was even brought into the picture Jan 14 12:08:35 i really need to figure out a way to get rid of gnome-keyring, or at least let it run its own course Jan 14 12:09:01 i'm also at a complete loss as to why the icons arent working in some places :) Jan 14 12:10:37 yet another "why isn't the normal icon theme system good enough for Nokia?" Jan 14 12:10:49 no, i actually don't think so Jan 14 12:10:59 really? Jan 14 12:11:09 there's no direct difference between hildon-icons and sdk-default-icons Jan 14 12:11:36 ah, but I mean keeping them as part of the gtk theme in the first place Jan 14 12:11:53 I'll look when I get home Jan 14 12:12:43 backspace isn't "just" a first-boot-wizard problem btw Jan 14 12:12:58 yeah, i knew that actually Jan 14 12:13:33 tested in roxterm too, with hilarious results Jan 14 12:14:01 roxterm works with HIM? Jan 14 12:14:37 except not having backspace is kinda a downer Jan 14 12:14:54 ah, tried matchbox-keyboard IIRC Jan 14 12:15:06 checkin' Jan 14 12:16:07 especially odd that backspace works on my zaurus keyboard Jan 14 12:16:17 but enter fails on n800 and zaurus Jan 14 12:16:23 stab stab stab Jan 14 12:18:21 bleh, slow night here Jan 14 12:20:42 johnx: #define normal icon system Jan 14 12:23:24 johnx|zaurus: i'll see if i can build qwerty12's roxterm Jan 14 12:24:25 Stskeeps: ah, sounds good Jan 14 12:24:37 Morning Jan 14 12:25:26 johnx|zaurus: removing broken libvte and osso-xterm in repository Jan 14 12:25:35 ah, ok Jan 14 12:25:50 * johnx|zaurus tests wifi powersaving on his zaurus... Jan 14 12:26:17 actually, nm, going to do this later :P Jan 14 12:28:31 also fine :) you done with exams now Jan 14 12:28:33 ? Jan 14 12:29:42 nop Jan 14 12:29:42 :P Jan 14 12:29:58 got a B (second-best grade in .dk) in social and collaborative computing Jan 14 12:30:06 next up an article on pervasive positioning Jan 14 12:30:13 and then an exam in human-computer interaction Jan 14 12:30:29 (it's rare people get A, normally 1-2 people per class) Jan 14 12:30:58 that's for the best Jan 14 12:31:00 sounds good Jan 14 12:31:06 Stskeeps: good luck Jan 14 12:31:53 some uni classes in the US give out A's unless you don't attend and some fail out most of the class. the middle road is probably better Jan 14 12:32:24 you work yourself up from a fail here really Jan 14 12:32:36 'intro to comp sci: scheme' was a fun one :) Jan 14 12:33:21 one of those 'you have to be cruel to be kind classes' Jan 14 12:34:23 compiler courses are fun too Jan 14 12:34:39 the rule is generally "if you have a gf, you'll most likely loose her during this course. that's how much time you use on it" Jan 14 12:34:41 :P Jan 14 12:34:47 the lecture hall was packed the first day. i grabbed the last seat and then someone pulled in folding chairs. just after midterms i had a whole row to myself... Jan 14 12:35:32 yeah, my friend was telling me about file system design courses Jan 14 12:35:40 fun fun :) Jan 14 12:39:54 Stskeeps: how the hell could you get B in social computing?! Jan 14 12:40:20 wazd: not caring about users ;) Jan 14 12:40:40 Stskeeps: Show them Mer and say "Wadeva!" Jan 14 12:41:19 wazd: i would have been able to get A if i had dragged in the big theory framework Jan 14 12:41:22 but i didn't, intentionally, so Jan 14 12:43:01 dneary, you're gonna get lynched by the itT mob if they find out you're trying to shuffle them into a back room. ;) Jan 14 12:43:35 are we shuffling people into back rooms and I'm missingout? Jan 14 12:43:44 wazd: wadeva? Jan 14 12:43:49 oh Jan 14 12:43:50 nm :) Jan 14 12:44:30 johnx|zaurus, minutes thread on maemo-community. Jan 14 12:45:01 ah, will read later. Jan 14 12:45:01 hm, quite a lot new maemo jobs Jan 14 12:45:15 http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-community/2009-January/002880.html Jan 14 12:45:16 senior developer in bangalore, hmm :P Jan 14 12:45:30 mid level sys-admin in tokyo? Jan 14 12:46:15 is there an ftp program for tablet? Jan 14 12:46:49 johnx|zaurus: http://nokia.taleo.net/careersection/10120/maemo/jobdetail.ftl ;) Jan 14 12:47:09 johnx|zaurus: that sounds like a job for you.. Jan 14 12:47:17 it does not show Jan 14 12:47:36 Stskeeps: I was asking if it was there :P Jan 14 12:47:44 should have added a smiley Jan 14 12:47:47 johnx|zaurus: hehe Jan 14 12:48:02 johnx|zaurus: but honestly though, read the 'linux pre-integrator and release manager' part ;) Jan 14 12:49:22 johnx|zaurus, you misread it, "sys-admin FOR tokyo" you have to manage every single connection from grandma going online for the first time to haxx0rs Jan 14 12:50:48 oh damnit, non-unique url Jan 14 12:51:06 johnx|zaurus: http://www.nokia.com/imaginemaemo -> click here for details, page 4 Jan 14 12:51:23 the 14/nov/08 one Jan 14 12:51:29 aah, *bookmarked* Jan 14 12:51:32 that pretty much covers some of your experiences ;) Jan 14 12:51:44 wow...old posting. wonder why it's not filled Jan 14 12:51:50 ' It will add an edge to your application if you have Linux System Administrator experience' Jan 14 12:51:53 ;) Jan 14 12:53:21 eep. back to work. catch you in a couple hours :D Jan 14 12:53:24 have fun Jan 14 12:56:36 * Stskeeps ponders if we should include qt-maemo in mer Jan 14 12:57:09 whoa Jan 14 12:57:13 Well, why _wouldn't_ you? Jan 14 12:57:28 I've received an e-mail from guy that wants to participate in Mer project) Jan 14 12:57:33 hehe Jan 14 12:57:42 wazd: just tell him to get on here i guess :) Jan 14 12:57:58 wazd, I hear they need somebody or something to work out their frustrations on. Jan 14 12:58:24 GeneralAntilles: i have occasionally considered getting a punching bag at home Jan 14 12:58:24 :P Jan 14 13:00:36 His name is Roberto. Damn I'm already jealous :P Jan 14 13:01:55 wazd: btw, make an account on launchpad and go to https://launchpad.net/~mer-committers and ask to join the team Jan 14 13:02:04 using 'bzr' you'll be able to correct themes and artwork and so on Jan 14 13:03:10 or contribute files in your own branches and such Jan 14 13:03:28 Stskeeps: Oh, his comment was banned as spam in my blog Jan 14 13:03:44 http://tabletui.wordpress.com/2009/01/12/repos-a-la-mer/#comments Jan 14 13:03:48 bottom one Jan 14 13:04:02 oh no, 9th one Jan 14 13:04:51 guy should definately come on here Jan 14 13:06:41 so if you reply that back and ask him to look for Stskeeps or johnx, we'll give him the tour :) Jan 14 13:08:22 Hello ... Jan 14 13:08:37 'lo khertan Jan 14 13:08:40 Is there a possibility to change the syntax of maemo.org ? Jan 14 13:08:50 for the wiki i mean ? Jan 14 13:10:32 Khertan_n810: hi, what do you mean exactly? Jan 14 13:10:42 * wazd 's looking for a knife to kill neighbours from above Jan 14 13:11:33 Some stupid girl's walking on stilletos for 3 hours already without a stop Jan 14 13:11:58 -> http://khertan.net/index.php/post/2009/01/14/Wiki-...-Grrrr-!!!! Jan 14 13:12:02 I wonder why the Maemo build of Php5 has stuff like ftp module left out Jan 14 13:12:08 wazd: a couple of doors down i have a turkish family with a subwoofer and very loud traditional turkish music.. and to the left i have a child which seemingily instead of talking screams all the time.. till 3am in the evening Jan 14 13:12:12 it ruins my sleep patterns totally Jan 14 13:12:48 Stskeeps: if you can, play loud music when THEY sleep Jan 14 13:12:52 then talk to them about noise Jan 14 13:13:06 pupnik_: i have considered once or twice to employ my surround sound, subwoofer, and porn. Jan 14 13:13:13 excellent Jan 14 13:13:27 Stskeeps: i ve used in the past something more usefull Jan 14 13:13:29 khertan_n980: yeah, i kinda like WYSIWYG wikis Jan 14 13:13:49 Khertan_n810: you can create styles Jan 14 13:13:52 but it's mediawiki syntax which is the most used Jan 14 13:13:59 so that the usage is easier for other people Jan 14 13:14:17 Stskeeps: doing a surchage on the electric line ... for all the batiment Jan 14 13:14:23 but it isn't easy to write it, yes Jan 14 13:14:37 ouch ? someone found that things easier ? Jan 14 13:14:42 html is easier ! Jan 14 13:14:49 wazd, I'm so glad I'm not the top floor. Jan 14 13:15:04 But I swear I can hear one of the neighbors bellow me doing laps sometimes. . . . Jan 14 13:15:19 writing a .doc using a hexadecimal file editor is easier ! Jan 14 13:15:39 Khertan_n810 I'm guilty of doing some html tables and suck on wiki, I didn't do that one but I'm a little to lazy to learn a second way of doing something Jan 14 13:15:44 khertan_n980: *grin* @ wiki syntax Jan 14 13:16:16 it still is less evil than thos TeX tables though :/ Jan 14 13:16:19 *those Jan 14 13:16:30 aquatix: not sure ... Jan 14 13:16:33 khertan_n980, the tables are really the worst of the mediawiki stuff. Jan 14 13:16:42 if there is only that Jan 14 13:16:47 k, i've replied to im Jan 14 13:17:03 I prefer ikiwiki with git :) Jan 14 13:17:16 i prefer html ! Jan 14 13:17:19 GeneralAntilles: laps? as in `running cirkles in a room'? Jan 14 13:17:29 yeah, plain html Jan 14 13:17:39 add a nice stylesheet, done Jan 14 13:17:55 aquatix, well, not circles, but it sounds like they're running from end end of the room to the other. Jan 14 13:18:05 Khertan_n810: you can use only html for ikiwiki Jan 14 13:18:10 stomp, stomp, stomp, stomp, stomp--pause--stomp, stomp, stomp, stomp, stomp Jan 14 13:18:29 khertan_n980, you can use HTML on the wiki. . . . Jan 14 13:18:29 maybe it a morse code Jan 14 13:18:30 GeneralAntilles: the kids in the home above us do the same sometimes Jan 14 13:18:34 GeneralAntilles: advise him to go outside :) Jan 14 13:18:53 wazd, I'd have to knock on several doors to figure out who it is first, though. Jan 14 13:19:32 Another one of my neighbors from across the hall was, apparently, spray painting some stuff yesterday. Now the tiles at the end of the hall are covered in overspray. Jan 14 13:19:56 sue the guy for graffiti Jan 14 13:20:22 sue? drastic :P Jan 14 13:20:29 aquatix, not my property, not my worry. Jan 14 13:20:52 or paint it some pretty colour Jan 14 13:23:09 Meiz_n810: current imager gets network manager right btw Jan 14 13:23:55 .GeneralAntilles khertan_n980, you can use HTML on the wiki. . . . Jan 14 13:23:58 how ? Jan 14 13:24:29 grrr shit ... i ve added an enhancement request on bugzilla Jan 14 13:26:33 btw, according to maemo.org GeneralAntilles is twice more adorable than Mer :D Jan 14 13:26:39 khertan_n980, you put HTML in one end and it comes out as formatted text from the other. :P Jan 14 13:26:54 * GeneralAntilles is way adorable. Jan 14 13:27:10 :) Jan 14 13:27:43 khertan_n980, that's enhancement's either WORKSFORME or goes upstream. Jan 14 13:27:45 GeneralAntilles: for adding new things maybe ... but for editing something like that : http://khertan.net/public/wiki_editing.PNG ? Jan 14 13:27:51 Do you need any rescue menu design, General?) Jan 14 13:28:01 khertan_n980, maemo.org isn't in the game of patching up mediawiki. Jan 14 13:28:17 khertan_n980, what's the problem with that? Jan 14 13:28:34 GeneralAntilles: you do not see any problem with that ? Jan 14 13:28:36 really ? Jan 14 13:28:46 khertan_n980: i guess it's a matter of knowing the syntax Jan 14 13:28:49 khertan_n980, really, I don't see a problem with it. Jan 14 13:28:53 http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Tables Jan 14 13:28:55 kinda like how i try to learn to speak french, but it's not that easy Jan 14 13:28:55 :P Jan 14 13:29:01 There's a nice introduction. Jan 14 13:29:10 Stskeeps: i rather speak wikipedian ;) Jan 14 13:29:50 i still think that wiki table syntax is more readable than the LaTeX tables Jan 14 13:30:24 Stskeeps: that's something i have been waiting :) thanks. How did you make nm-applet work Jan 14 13:30:25 ? Jan 14 13:30:27 * Stskeeps unpacks yet another mer image Jan 14 13:30:28 Meiz_n810: magic Jan 14 13:30:30 khertan_n980: but i can see you going wtf on bigger ones indeed Jan 14 13:30:33 ok ... so ... but does there is a plugin for wikimedia to have an other syntax ? Jan 14 13:30:49 khertan_n980, a table's syntax is picked when it's created. Jan 14 13:30:53 Meiz_n810: two things - plugdev, netdev, and nm-applet running before hildon-desktop Jan 14 13:31:06 and installing dhcp3-client Jan 14 13:31:07 If you can find a plugin that lets you switch on-the-fly, we'll consider installing it. Jan 14 13:31:13 Meiz_n810: and gtk-update-icon-cache -f /usr/share/icons/somewhere Jan 14 13:31:18 But I don't believe such a thing exists. Jan 14 13:31:33 As not all of mediawiki's table functions are implemented in HTML's. Jan 14 13:31:57 khertan_n980, my recommendation, though, is to take 20 minutes and read through their guide to mediawiki tables and be done with it. Jan 14 13:32:14 GeneralAntilles: Yathink? Jan 14 13:33:24 dneary, I've been on the receiving end of smaller versions of those more than once. It aint fun. :P Jan 14 13:36:27 Stskeeps: ookay Jan 14 13:36:51 Meiz_n810: we have a strange problem with backspace killing the X server at the moment though :) Jan 14 13:37:09 Stskeeps: some meta keys hanging? Jan 14 13:37:17 aquatix: n800 Jan 14 13:37:22 odd Jan 14 13:37:29 i had it on my pc Jan 14 13:37:34 alt hanging somehow Jan 14 13:37:49 then again we don't have nozap or something like that in xorg Jan 14 13:37:52 that disables the entire environment :/ Jan 14 13:40:02 so, Xorg dies? does this problem exist with Xomap too? Jan 14 13:40:21 Meiz_n810: xomap is a totally different can of worms though Jan 14 13:41:45 N800s for 40 quid. Wowser: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=257492#post257492 Jan 14 13:42:59 time to stock up? Jan 14 13:43:34 jesus, that's cheap Jan 14 13:45:34 just imagine how the market would explode if the price was that low Jan 14 13:45:46 like, in general Jan 14 13:46:11 expect to see more fire sales in 2009 Jan 14 13:46:22 * Jaffa wonders about getting one. Absolutely very little use for it. Jan 14 13:46:34 Actually, I 'spose Alex got have it as his own, instead of sharing Mrs Jaffa's Jan 14 13:46:42 Jaffa: new kiddo should have one too Jan 14 13:46:47 He doesn't exactly need the keyboard of the N810 Jan 14 13:46:57 just make more babies, so you have an excuse to buy more N800s Jan 14 13:46:58 Stskeeps: I think one between the two of 'em'll do for now Jan 14 13:47:01 hehe Jan 14 13:47:04 pupnik_: he Jan 14 13:47:07 pupnik_: heh Jan 14 13:47:17 Too tired for any baby making ;-) Jan 14 13:47:22 That's like what, $80 USD? Sign me up Jan 14 13:47:37 WolfSage: Less than that now, pound's right dropped. Jan 14 13:47:52 About $58 at today's exchange rate Jan 14 13:47:57 Well, it's offline only Jan 14 13:48:02 england has highest foreign debt per capita, around $140,000 Jan 14 13:48:55 Fell, for 60 bucks I'd get it just to get it :) Jan 14 13:49:03 Well* Jan 14 13:51:15 http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_5vkPiCEjjdg/SV-RlRa6l9I/AAAAAAAAC6E/_S79g_T1dNg/s1600-h/3.3.jpg lol, economics, sfw Jan 14 13:51:17 * Stskeeps looks at #4001 again and realizes he shouldn't report bugs at 2am at night Jan 14 13:51:36 Of course, PC World are crap Jan 14 13:51:44 And say "we don't stock any Nokia items" Jan 14 13:52:01 Jaffa: while having a editorial on their own page.. Jan 14 13:52:03 Oh it has? Jan 14 13:52:09 Damn, and here I thought the dollar went up Jan 14 13:52:14 * sp3000 wonders why cz's backlog in this channel shrinks Jan 14 13:52:15 Stskeeps: yup Jan 14 13:52:30 sp3000: hm? Jan 14 13:52:42 * sp3000 has 11 lines now Jan 14 13:53:33 * sp3000 should have 500 Jan 14 13:56:38 * sp3000 shrugs, restarts Jan 14 13:56:52 wazd: our current boot progress is [mer-logo splashscreen] [black screen for a second while X loads] [wallpaper for a while when zenity and such loads] [dialog boxes for setting up tablet] [splash screen finishing] [black screen for a while while X + hildon starts, then white screen + icons while hildon finishes up, then wallpaper + hildon] Jan 14 13:57:37 i'm not 100% sure a blank wallpaper is the best in the 3rd process, so i was thinking about the loading wallpaper there, but it's like it should be "please wait, preparing for first boot" instead or the likes. Jan 14 13:58:30 Stskeeps: we should make BSOD there, to keep user in tonus xD Jan 14 13:58:34 hehehe Jan 14 13:59:23 Ha Jan 14 13:59:39 We need a picture of a cracked tablet screen to put there. Jan 14 13:59:58 GeneralAntilles: that would definately be the best watchdog reboot image Jan 14 14:00:07 that'd throw people into a raging fit Jan 14 14:01:18 Little did they know Nokia installed an explosive bolt behind all tablet screens to punish misbehaving users. Jan 14 14:06:43 i wonder if it's possible to get rid of the sidebar completely and just replace it with home screen applets Jan 14 14:07:33 wazd: http://internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=257503&postcount=896 <- i know it's XP but it might actually have some merit, if we try and remove the sidebar Jan 14 14:08:03 and maybe having a sidebar that can pop out :P Jan 14 14:08:14 Stskeeps: look at marquee-plugins. Jan 14 14:08:16 What I was thinking of Jan 14 14:08:30 Meiz_n810: hmm, maybe Jan 14 14:08:32 Stskeeps: can we get rid TOTALY of the sidebar?) Jan 14 14:08:38 wazd: possibly Jan 14 14:08:41 Stskeeps: app-menu can be a part of the statusbar Jan 14 14:08:59 Stskeeps: and I can ask Andrew Olmsted to port Personal Launcher to Mer Jan 14 14:09:14 wazd: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mer-committers/m-r/hildon-desktop-layout-alpha/annotate/head%3A/desktop.conf Jan 14 14:09:14 Stskeeps What about my XP theme? Jan 14 14:09:31 Andrewfblack: i just had a revelation about layout stuff regarding it so Jan 14 14:10:17 Stskeeps K, Personally i like the layout that chinesse knock off is using with no sidebar and menu up top Jan 14 14:10:18 cos of the full title bar in the top Jan 14 14:10:27 Andrewfblack: yeah, i thought similar Jan 14 14:11:21 wazd: think personal launcher should be trivial to build Jan 14 14:11:24 provided it's not python Jan 14 14:12:35 Stskeeps: So I what I was thinking of to slightly modify it Jan 14 14:13:00 Stskeeps: to be able to add desktop-alike shortcuts to the homescreen Jan 14 14:13:54 Stskeeps: I'll ask Andrew if it's possible Jan 14 14:14:39 i'll just try to build it first :) Jan 14 14:15:38 builds after a libtoolize :) Jan 14 14:18:35 I'm having trouble getting rid of the "Unable to connect, no file system available" popup when I plug in a USB ethernet adapter. The adapter works fine, but I'd just like to get rid of that message. Any ideas? Jan 14 14:19:42 hack it? :P think it's part of ke-recv Jan 14 14:19:47 (which is open source) Jan 14 14:20:33 So it seems, it's ke_recv that says "usb_mount_check:168: entered" and "launch_fm:2606: couldn't find suitable mount point" Jan 14 14:21:33 I'm just wondering wether there's a way to let it or hal (as it seems) to know that the usb nics do not have storage capabilities. Jan 14 14:22:40 I did take a short glance at the ke_recv sources, it might be just that the usb mount check timout is left there when in reality it should have already been cleared out. Not sure about that though, like I said, I only took a glance. Jan 14 14:23:00 Andrewfblack: you have a typo in the mainmenu of your homepage Jan 14 14:23:13 Andrewfblack: reMository Jan 14 14:25:27 wazd of andrewblck.com ? Jan 14 14:26:08 three cheers for GeneralAntilles sharing my opinion :-P Jan 14 14:26:47 wazd: not really a typo just something I never changed remository is the name of that joomla plugin. Thanks for pointing it out though. Jan 14 14:26:49 andre___, :P Jan 14 14:27:47 andre___, it's the least I can do what with leaving it up to you to RESOLVE all the touchy ones and take the brunt of the reaction. ;) Jan 14 14:28:03 Stskeeps: so I take it that there's no de facto standard udev/hal configuration change that would remove it? Jan 14 14:28:08 hah. sharing the flames? nice :) Jan 14 14:28:35 I think we should definitely invite Olmsted to Mer party Jan 14 14:28:42 Since he's a GTK god :) Jan 14 14:32:02 Stskeeps: The original Moblin/UME versions of Hildon have it configured with no sidebar; might be useful for pointers Jan 14 14:32:33 well I'm out of here working on themes to long this morning. Jan 14 14:34:24 A 34-year-old mother who stole her teenage daughter's identity and used it to enroll in high school to pursue her dream of becoming a cheerleader was yesterday committed to three years in a psychiatric unit. Jan 14 14:34:31 RST38h: no shit.. :P Jan 14 14:34:36 wazd: i kinda think that it will flow naturally eventually Jan 14 14:34:43 we just need to get to a point where it's easy to work wih Jan 14 14:34:49 having NetworkManager helps a lot ;) Jan 14 14:36:48 * Jaffa *disagrees* with andre___ and GeneralAntilles Jan 14 14:37:11 heh, what now? ;) Jan 14 14:37:24 Jaffa, hah! add a comment. :) Jan 14 14:37:45 oh boy Jan 14 14:37:46 time is now Jan 14 14:37:49 more minutes of web design meetings Jan 14 14:39:18 am i the only one with hate for the notification thing in the bottom left? Jan 14 14:40:06 (in hildon-desktop) Jan 14 14:41:52 Stskeeps, well, I like being notified. Jan 14 14:41:52 Stskeeps: I haven't gotten it yet ;)( Jan 14 14:42:12 Stskeeps: thanks for the add on mer-commiters Jan 14 14:42:42 GeneralAntilles: i just think it is out of sync with the other top bar notifications, but that's just me.. Jan 14 14:42:54 i wouldn't mind clicking a smaller icon in the status bar Jan 14 14:43:05 Stskeeps, I like how it starts in the top then moves down when new notifications come in. Jan 14 14:43:21 Stskeeps: would there be any objection to changing the usbnet rescue script to remove the "read foo" lines ? Jan 14 14:43:32 So, since homescreen widgets have z-index Jan 14 14:43:46 we can bind PL to the bottom Jan 14 14:43:48 GeneralAntilles: i never saw that happen really Jan 14 14:44:14 r2d2rogers: go ahead, lemme just give you access to builder and such too Jan 14 14:44:21 Stskeeps, try IMing yourself with FBReader in fullscreen. Jan 14 14:44:42 GeneralAntilles: mm, i actually don't use IM on the tablet, heh Jan 14 14:46:16 r2d2rogers: r2d2rogers on jaiku? Jan 14 14:46:21 yup Jan 14 14:46:28 identi.ca and twitter also Jan 14 14:47:08 r2d2rogers: added to builder, use #merbuilder on jaiku, build sourcepackage=packageversion Jan 14 14:48:26 Stskeeps: thanks' Jan 14 14:48:49 bzr export lp-path packagename; cd packagename; dpkg-buildpackage -S -us -uc; upload .tar.gz, .dsc, .changes to trac.tspre.org:~/incoming , ssh trac.tspre.org /import-new-changes, and then build on jaiku Jan 14 14:49:52 * r2d2rogers takes notes Jan 14 14:55:18 so what I want to do is this: http://i064.radikal.ru/0901/32/19818bec82b9.jpg Jan 14 14:56:16 hm, that looks nice Jan 14 14:56:33 wazd: those are `desktop icons'? Jan 14 14:56:36 And the other thing is to move task navigator to the top, instead of title Jan 14 14:56:50 aquatix: sorta Jan 14 14:57:05 and the `mer' logo is a button pulling up the main menu? Jan 14 14:57:16 can you move the start button to the botto mand add a trashcan? Jan 14 14:57:38 yeah Jan 14 14:57:45 trash can in the lower right Jan 14 14:57:56 and a clock beneath it Jan 14 14:57:56 not too close to the clock though Jan 14 14:58:02 exactly Jan 14 14:58:08 we also need room for a norton antivirus icon Jan 14 14:58:17 lcuk: :) Jan 14 14:58:19 you take the words out of my mouth Jan 14 14:58:23 so to say Jan 14 14:58:42 bottom orientation is bad Jan 14 14:58:48 since there are app controls Jan 14 14:58:49 and maybe a dedicated reset button Jan 14 14:59:10 start/accessories/reset Jan 14 14:59:19 or is it in control panel? Jan 14 14:59:40 I'm serious! >:( Jan 14 14:59:42 wazd, i agree sorta with that, since things like the keyboard controls come up Jan 14 14:59:43 :P Jan 14 14:59:51 so are we Jan 14 14:59:55 A bunch of random ass Excel files would look good, too. Jan 14 15:00:22 make the font for the desktop icons just a bit to big and add copious amounts of ... even though the name would fit Jan 14 15:00:48 We need crappier text rendering, too. Jan 14 15:01:00 ahhh well you just have to use liqbase for that Jan 14 15:01:02 so you don't like the "desktop" concept?) Jan 14 15:01:21 More seriously, I'm not sure we should start diverging from the current layout until we know more about Nokia's plans for Fremantle. Jan 14 15:01:25 we do, but the desktop area is for whatever applets the user chooses Jan 14 15:01:31 some might decide they want a desktop Jan 14 15:01:33 others wont Jan 14 15:01:35 Yet another disparate mobile UI isn't all that helpful. Jan 14 15:02:03 But I guess some options for desktop layouts wouldn't hurt. Jan 14 15:02:20 i have to agree in principle with gen, same as when i started throwing ideas together, we want stability first, then go for expansion Jan 14 15:02:44 Aw, i've forgot to tell last thing Jan 14 15:03:00 Personal Launcher is on the bottom, widgets are still there Jan 14 15:03:01 dont tell me, you've ported clippy? Jan 14 15:03:23 In my brain it's pretty doable) Jan 14 15:03:32 my desktop is just a picture with a single small clock Jan 14 15:03:34 I don't know if it's in fact possible Jan 14 15:03:46 i dont want to accidentally click on apps Jan 14 15:04:14 for me, having a menu opening up with selection is great, the desktop area is effectively information only Jan 14 15:04:29 * lcuk hates catching clock and having it come up Jan 14 15:05:12 anywya, bbl Jan 14 15:05:24 and i want one big button since i'm pressing with my feet :D Jan 14 15:08:10 wazd: i like your concept Jan 14 15:08:17 with the bar at the top Jan 14 15:08:47 but what about a taskbar-like widget? Jan 14 15:08:56 or is that going to be up there too? Jan 14 15:14:02 afaik beta sdk will then reveal the fremantle ui framework and layout also. so that's pretty soon. Jan 14 15:16:38 roope, hehe, it'll interesting to see for sure - we're mostly working on making non- Jan 14 15:16:48 * RST38h likes wazd's layout Jan 14 15:17:04 The only question is how it will live with hildonized apps Jan 14 15:17:07 clutter ui atm so we can support the older tablets Jan 14 15:18:17 http://i029.radikal.ru/0901/83/01afa301597e.png Jan 14 15:18:29 thats what i mean Jan 14 15:19:43 looks possible Jan 14 15:20:29 all hildon stuff is still there, sust rearranged Jan 14 15:20:34 just* Jan 14 15:20:56 wazd: So even although the frame is not shown it is there? Jan 14 15:20:59 Sounds fine with me Jan 14 15:24:56 someone should make a hildon-desktop layout maker.. Jan 14 15:26:13 qwerty12, sign up for mer-committers on launchpad btw Jan 14 15:26:31 Stskeeps, hmm, I'm not much of a scm fan (way too lazy) Jan 14 15:26:39 scms rule Jan 14 15:26:40 *StsN800 Jan 14 15:26:57 drink the kool-aid Jan 14 15:32:14 roope: we've not had the *alpha* SDK yet ;-/ Jan 14 15:33:42 I don't think that Fremantle UI will be revealed before release Jan 14 15:34:20 wazd, you don't have to think. :) Jan 14 15:34:27 It'll be revealed with the beta release in April/May Jan 14 15:34:43 and the hw too hopefully ;) Jan 14 15:34:44 2 possibilities: there is nothing to show or there is something uber cool Jan 14 15:34:53 wazd, there's plenty to show. Jan 14 15:35:03 Then RS-51 would be released April :) Jan 14 15:35:08 But they've chosen to wait because of the ill reception incomplete UIs usually face. Jan 14 15:35:20 http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Maemo_roadmap/Fremantle Jan 14 15:35:41 wazd: Third possibility: there is midly amusing next device which is already in prototype stage and fremantle devs have the prototypes but they can't show those to anyone Jan 14 15:35:45 I wonder if the momentum has just completely dropped out of http://wiki.maemo.org/Fremantle_Stars Jan 14 15:36:06 wazd: In fact, the existence of rx-51 prototypes has been confirmed by the mothership representatives Jan 14 15:36:25 Almost release-quality according to the comments that were removed from itT. Jan 14 15:36:56 * qwerty12 rolls eyes at "Will need at least one book included, and preferably a link to where to download more. " Jan 14 15:37:08 If I were Nokia, I'd release supercool UI with hardware to make maximum hype :) Jan 14 15:38:29 wazd: they will, just not right away Jan 14 15:38:54 But it will probably disappoint at least 50% of the community, just like it is used to Jan 14 15:39:28 GeneralAntilles: Quim said discussion is still going on behind closed doors, or at least I think he did Jan 14 15:39:50 Discussion about? Jan 14 15:39:56 Stars Jan 14 15:40:35 Yeah, but that was, what, a month ago, right? Jan 14 15:40:59 yeah, I guess so Jan 14 15:41:05 perhaps they;ve given up on us ;) Jan 14 15:41:09 Hehe Jan 14 15:41:19 I guess you really need the beta SDK to do real Fremantle-oriented work. Jan 14 15:41:30 But there's plenty of non-UI stuff to be tackled in the meantime, though. . . . Jan 14 15:41:31 General: Need a real device Jan 14 15:41:33 wazd, you can no quicker magic up a finiahed on schedule ui than nokia can ;) Jan 14 15:41:38 yeah, though polishing up some apps is certainly doable Jan 14 15:41:49 hw will increase the excitement for sure Jan 14 15:41:57 * lcuk uses a feather duster on lardmans baldspot Jan 14 15:42:33 RST38h, hardly. Jan 14 15:42:36 :p Jan 14 15:42:44 For marketing, maybe. Jan 14 15:42:48 But certainly not for coding. Jan 14 15:43:08 RST38h, theres been real omap3 devices around for months already :: movial have videos on youtube showing clear as day tablet form factor omap3 stuff Jan 14 15:43:23 "fierce" internet experience ;) Jan 14 15:43:33 More than a year, even. Jan 14 15:44:03 yeah, but that's not really relevant, most apps could be written with no hw, just knowing the capabilities Jan 14 15:44:16 ^ Jan 14 15:44:22 though knowing some more about the connectivity infrastructure would be useful for always-on type apps Jan 14 15:44:32 lardman, look around - all the people doing that are going "ummm its crap we need to optimize" Jan 14 15:44:41 for any platform Jan 14 15:45:02 certainly, but you write some code before you optimise it ;) Jan 14 15:45:13 qt, saviour of the world :: has extensive core problems with speed - its great having a big fast desktop running things smoothly but it doesnt scale backwards Jan 14 15:45:23 sod Qt Jan 14 15:45:25 lardman: hm, i always start with optimising Jan 14 15:45:43 lardman: contemplating my plans while drinking some coffee Jan 14 15:45:46 aquatix: well you have very large working memory then Jan 14 15:45:47 my feeling is that people will be fairly impressed, providing things go well :). Jan 14 15:45:48 lardman, you start by not driving a JCB into the sandpit Jan 14 15:45:56 lcuk: are you asserting that GTK was lightweight and designed for embedded? :P Jan 14 15:46:10 suihkulokki, hahaha no :| Jan 14 15:46:26 i am using qt because thats where all the optimization work appears to be Jan 14 15:46:47 but still, that doens't stop people writing apps, they might be slower than ideal, but they will run Jan 14 15:46:49 red herring Jan 14 15:47:17 ^ Jan 14 15:47:27 i've been taking quite a lot flak on internettablettalk about my hw key related comments. :) Jan 14 15:48:04 lardman, not saying its not, but do you think the iphone would have done as well if users had to wait? Jan 14 15:48:33 roope, you do have a way of saying things that cut right to people's worst fears. <_< Jan 14 15:49:13 lcuk: people will always write apps for commercial platforms Jan 14 15:49:14 The trend with the tablets so far has been to crappier and crappier hardware keys, so combine that with certain comments and BOOM Jan 14 15:49:29 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FuVwh_VrIxk Jan 14 15:49:36 nice Beagleboard demo Jan 14 15:49:45 lcuk: but again, we will eventually have hw, it's just people saying that we can't do anything yet because we don't have it that I disagree with to a large extent Jan 14 15:50:09 * lardman prays that it has a kb Jan 14 15:50:42 * GeneralAntilles agrees with lardman again. :P Jan 14 15:50:50 About the people saying Jan 14 15:50:56 Not necessarily about the hw keyboard Jan 14 15:51:14 ok lardman :) thats certainly reasonable Jan 14 15:51:14 since a crappy keyboard like the N810 has is worse than a virtual keyboard for my use. Jan 14 15:51:43 GeneralAntilles, but having the whole screen for content is better for many people no matter how crap the keybooard Jan 14 15:52:37 hmm, I prefer the n810 kb to the n800 onscreen job Jan 14 15:52:45 hito all Jan 14 15:52:53 i didnt even consider the n800 to be a computer :$ Jan 14 15:52:59 can i install maemo on my nokia e51? Jan 14 15:53:02 it was a pda Jan 14 15:53:20 is there a nokia hw supported by e51? Jan 14 15:53:27 oos Jan 14 15:53:31 re! Jan 14 15:53:37 ops not by e51 but by maemo :) Jan 14 15:54:01 there is a list of nokia hw supported by maemo? Jan 14 15:54:11 here's the list: n800 and n810 Jan 14 15:54:17 770 :) Jan 14 15:54:20 the 770 is supported by a past version of maemo Jan 14 15:54:31 Meh, N800 & N810's maemo will be in the past too Jan 14 15:54:44 qwerty12, shaddup! I'm workin' on it! Jan 14 15:54:52 :P Jan 14 15:54:55 johnx, hehe, sorry! :P Jan 14 15:55:20 qwerty12: i still think we should hack mer to run on top of a n96 ;) Jan 14 15:55:20 no problem, just all the doom n' gloom gets to me :P Jan 14 15:55:36 I vote for qwerty12 to work on getting the kernel booting Jan 14 15:55:56 heh...actually it would sooner run on the openmoko thing... Jan 14 15:56:08 * johnx had an interesting idea Jan 14 15:56:19 out-compete openmoko on their own field? Jan 14 15:56:20 :P Jan 14 15:56:35 Stskeeps, and get a maemo-based phone out before Nokia Jan 14 15:56:36 lcuk, that's silly. Jan 14 15:56:46 lcuk, you just don't know how to use the virtual input very well. Jan 14 15:57:05 of course it was silly, but it looked like one Jan 14 15:57:22 johnx is going to take over the world with Maemo. Jan 14 15:57:33 It'll be his SkyNet Jan 14 15:57:46 as long as we can play on wii Jan 14 15:58:04 johnx: yes, that would be sortof humourous ;) Jan 14 15:58:07 johnx, shouldnt we just boot it on the actual openmoko hardware? Jan 14 15:58:29 johnx: that'd be cool Jan 14 15:58:34 johnx: scaringily enough i think many pieces are there to support dialing though :P Jan 14 15:58:59 we can include a 2600whistle on a lanyard :D Jan 14 15:59:14 I need to put up a screenshot of what 640x480 looks like Jan 14 15:59:19 yes, you do Jan 14 15:59:33 just a couple more pixel values to tweak and it'll look almost right Jan 14 15:59:44 I'll put up a screenie now though, then another later Jan 14 15:59:46 :) Jan 14 16:00:20 johnx: freerunner does actually look capable Jan 14 16:00:25 yup Jan 14 16:00:29 samsung 2442 soc, 400mhz, 128mb sdram, 256mb nand flash Jan 14 16:00:47 and the requisite framebuffer stupidity too Jan 14 16:00:53 just like zaurus cxx00 and n8x0 Jan 14 16:01:08 what arm version is it? if any Jan 14 16:01:19 dur...maybe an arm9? Jan 14 16:01:22 arm920t Jan 14 16:01:30 only this type of nokia? Jan 14 16:01:32 :( Jan 14 16:01:34 lcuk: http://hackaday.com/2009/01/13/multitouch-patched-into-android/ Jan 14 16:01:39 bloody hell, armv4 Jan 14 16:01:53 Stskeeps, armv4t IIRC. huuuge difference as far as support Jan 14 16:02:10 yeah, but we do armv5t :P Jan 14 16:02:12 zeld, maemo runs on linux. if there is no linux port for that phone maemo can't run Jan 14 16:02:35 Stskeeps, are we tied to anything really ubuntu-specific? Jan 14 16:03:21 mm. Jan 14 16:03:25 rcS.d order maybe Jan 14 16:03:49 also i think most of our packages are armv5 Jan 14 16:04:00 it isn't impossible, if that's what you're asking :) Jan 14 16:04:01 I suppose. but we can drop a lot of our init scripts on a more standard platform Jan 14 16:04:25 maybe then i can get Mer on my ipaq 3630 .. ;P Jan 14 16:04:35 640x480? Jan 14 16:04:43 true, smaller Jan 14 16:04:53 lardman, i saw it yesterday, its from the synapse touchpad code i believe Jan 14 16:04:57 lots of apps I can't picture running on a 320x240 screen Jan 14 16:04:57 Stskeeps, get it on the loox instead :P Jan 14 16:05:30 * lcuk had a loox Jan 14 16:05:44 of course people will probably be doing up 480x800 layouts for their apps for maemo 5... :) Jan 14 16:05:44 qwerty12: yeah, more reasonable Jan 14 16:06:17 Someone did have Linux running on the 720 but it hard resetted the tablet and went back to winmo when you rebooted it Jan 14 16:06:28 understood johnx Jan 14 16:06:39 but... nokia e51 work with symbian OS Jan 14 16:06:47 symbian is not a linux derived OS? Jan 14 16:06:50 correct Jan 14 16:07:00 johnx, technically does pixels matter - i thought aspect ratio was MUCH more important Jan 14 16:07:01 also, just because it runs linux, doesnt mean you can replace it :) Jan 14 16:07:35 especially if you wanna run things on HIGHER than defined - ie desktop/laptops have 1024/768 etc but you might still want fullscreen Jan 14 16:07:40 lcuk, run some maemo apps in a xephyr window dialed to 320x240 :) Jan 14 16:07:42 zeld: symbian is an independent OS Jan 14 16:07:53 formerly known as EPOC Jan 14 16:08:06 though i wonder why noone did a bootloader from-within symbian thing or whatever Jan 14 16:08:09 johnx, i suppose :) just getting used to resolution freedom in lb :) Jan 14 16:08:25 * lcuk runs things in 256*224 without caring Jan 14 16:08:39 lcuk, not everyone is as enlightened as you. actually you can see which apps play nice just by turning on rotation support :) Jan 14 16:08:44 lcuk, you're not using bitmapped themes. Jan 14 16:09:05 GeneralAntilles, gaah. don't remind me about the art I'd need to redo for a real VGA layout :/ Jan 14 16:09:12 :P Jan 14 16:10:06 yeah johnx agreed entirely, heads in about a zillion places ill just sit back for a while :) Jan 14 16:10:55 lcuk, I mean a lot of apps might actually work ok, but I think things like toolbars are going to have issues once they get much below 720 horizontal Jan 14 16:11:30 lcuk, and I do appreciate being poked at to defend what I'm saying :) keeps me from making assumptions Jan 14 16:13:05 aquatix: thnx for clarification :) Jan 14 16:13:12 zeld: you're welcome :) Jan 14 16:13:20 :) Jan 14 16:19:46 any1 had test the mana world on N810 ?? Jan 14 16:20:52 i'm back ... Jan 14 16:20:56 for ten minutes Jan 14 16:21:18 khertan_n980, psst, how did you get your hands on the new tablet? Jan 14 16:22:13 n980? ;) Jan 14 16:27:14 Stskeeps: yep ... a n980 Jan 14 16:28:11 the pc i use to do http tunneling ... to be honest it s a NCD NC900 N980 - RM5231 165 Mhz Jan 14 16:28:16 slower than the nit :) Jan 14 16:30:51 an honest to god XTerminal? Jan 14 16:42:40 parents evening? the thing where they drag in your parents to school for a talk about how you are doing as a pupil? Jan 14 16:42:44 :P Jan 14 16:43:57 ouch. qwerty12's in trouble Jan 14 16:45:23 qwertys parents: "You have done badly in school, you are ungrounded for a week. i demand you go straight to the park and play with your friends immediately" Jan 14 16:45:29 ouch tablet freezed ! Jan 14 16:45:38 just by removing usb cable Jan 14 16:46:02 ssh say .... : metalayer-crawler ... Jan 14 16:46:05 again :) Jan 14 16:46:11 pfff Jan 14 16:46:27 htop works fine in N 810 Jan 14 16:46:30 :) Jan 14 16:46:37 now i'm trying the mana world Jan 14 16:50:38 [IMG]http://khertan.net/poubelle/screenshot113.png[/IMG] Jan 14 16:50:41 [IMG]http://khertan.net/poubelle/screenshot115.png[/IMG] Jan 14 16:50:44 [IMG]http://khertan.net/poubelle/screenshot116.png[/IMG] Jan 14 16:50:47 :) Jan 14 16:51:07 error 404 Jan 14 16:51:09 :S Jan 14 16:51:10 ah, right. i was supposed to take some screenies Jan 14 16:51:14 drop the pointless img tags Jan 14 16:51:15 got distracted by food Jan 14 16:51:17 :) Jan 14 16:51:27 xD Jan 14 16:52:00 mNotes... Jan 14 16:52:09 tezst xD Jan 14 16:52:25 study shows high caffeine intake can cause visual and auditory hallucinations, as well as making people think that others are "out to get them" Jan 14 16:52:31 well that explains a lot Jan 14 16:52:35 jajajaja Jan 14 16:52:51 * GAN800 plots against Stskeeps. Jan 14 16:53:03 Stskeeps, nah, caffeine just shows you the truth, man. gotta watch out Jan 14 16:53:20 404 ? Jan 14 16:53:31 Khertan_n810, he pasted the whole link with img tags Jan 14 16:53:38 khertan_n980: delete [/IMG] Jan 14 16:53:55 ah yes ... stupid mibbit ! Jan 14 16:53:56 johnx: it certainly explains some people on iTT Jan 14 16:54:01 Stskeeps: high as in very Jan 14 16:54:02 xD Jan 14 16:54:11 AStorm: 3 cups seems to be enough Jan 14 16:54:19 not if you're accustomed Jan 14 16:54:22 true Jan 14 16:54:27 N810 have armel o arm ?? Jan 14 16:54:32 armel Jan 14 16:54:39 (little-endian) Jan 14 16:54:48 thnks Jan 14 16:55:16 http://www.gadgetryblog.com/gadgetryblog/2005/05/western_digital.html cool gadget :P Jan 14 16:55:41 the domain is parked Jan 14 16:55:42 ;P Jan 14 16:55:58 :O Jan 14 16:55:59 true Jan 14 16:56:02 let me see Jan 14 16:57:03 * TheFatal is searching for a cool gadget Jan 14 16:57:03 :P Jan 14 16:59:12 bye Jan 14 17:01:42 evening konttori :) Jan 14 17:01:46 TheFatal: what about a portable fridge? Jan 14 17:01:50 cool enough? Jan 14 17:03:01 http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v119/JohnX/mer-vga.jpg Jan 14 17:03:06 xD Jan 14 17:03:35 i'm searching for a watch how no need energy Jan 14 17:04:33 w00t Jan 14 17:04:35 a menu Jan 14 17:04:37 use water to show the time, using the "electrons" Jan 14 17:04:46 electrones in spanish Jan 14 17:04:48 :P Jan 14 17:05:47 Stskeeps: evening Jan 14 17:06:20 AStorm: hehehe :> Jan 14 17:06:21 forget it Jan 14 17:06:22 er Jan 14 17:06:26 johnx: woo :) Jan 14 17:06:30 good news on the qt licensing today Jan 14 17:06:39 hey there Konttori Jan 14 17:06:57 johnx: how about hildon-desktop? any changes? Jan 14 17:06:59 Stskeeps: care to hack the gtk to autohildonize menus? Jan 14 17:07:01 konttori, yup, saw the news. That should make quite a few things simpler Jan 14 17:07:15 Stskeeps, nope, just conf files and a new theme Jan 14 17:07:30 k Jan 14 17:07:36 so it looks screwed up? Jan 14 17:07:57 * r2d2rogers wonders how well a usb keyboard would work for Mer Jan 14 17:08:18 ... I can't type into the first boot wizard... Jan 14 17:08:22 Stskeeps, you mean right now? well that is hildon-deskop, but without the left panel. the status area is there Jan 14 17:08:48 a Jan 14 17:08:49 h Jan 14 17:08:59 r2d2rogers: ah. sapwood. Jan 14 17:09:08 and yeah, I still have a little tweakign to do as you can see. things still aren't lining up quite right Jan 14 17:09:32 r2d2rogers: don't kill your 770 with powering the usb through a self made usb power supply hack Jan 14 17:09:32 probably need to start from scratch and make a nice big equation for everything Jan 14 17:09:50 Stskeeps: yup prolly, but it even locks up the telnet session now too Jan 14 17:19:03 r2d2rogers: i'm still really puzzled what the problem is with sapwood on 770 :/ Jan 14 17:20:51 why doesn't the same thing happen under n8x0s? Jan 14 17:21:05 that's about the only angle I can think off Jan 14 17:21:19 is it useful to look at the kernel?? Jan 14 17:21:42 r2d2rogers, you mean sapwood? it seems to be architecture dependent Jan 14 17:22:34 I need to dig into just what the 770 processor is I guess, Jan 14 17:23:18 r2d2rogers, do you have a gregale (os2006) scratchbox install? Jan 14 17:23:39 hmm, though not that it would help to link it against an old gtk Jan 14 17:23:42 nevermind Jan 14 17:24:15 johnx: I don't ahve any scratch box setup at the moment.... Jan 14 17:28:17 Stskeeps: looks like the lockout on telnet isn't sapwood, unless it's started from something other than start-hildon now Jan 14 17:30:49 m Jan 14 17:30:49 m Jan 14 17:31:02 jott: Fixes: NB#93075 - Update icon size constants to Fremantle Jan 14 17:31:04 err Jan 14 17:31:05 johnx Jan 14 17:31:32 what is that from? Jan 14 17:31:41 gtk+ Jan 14 17:31:48 re icon problem Jan 14 17:32:26 ah, so maybe it's just that we're playing with versions of stuff never really meant to go together? Jan 14 17:33:34 Sargun: Have you had your vi today? Jan 14 17:44:26 ~onjoin #maemo Sargun Jan 14 17:44:36 ~onjoin -Sargun Jan 14 17:44:37 ok, Sargun Jan 14 17:44:38 Sargun: Have you had your vi today? Jan 14 17:44:54 :) Jan 14 17:50:01 Stskeeps, johnx: found the other sapwood reference in the first-boot-wizard and removed it, now I see the "Please type your full name.", the OK and cancel, and the blinking cursor. Jan 14 17:50:11 alrigh Jan 14 17:50:12 t Jan 14 17:50:35 we should probably if [ -x /platform-dislikes-sapwood ] or somehing.. Jan 14 17:50:58 yeah, for the moment... Jan 14 17:51:31 sadly I don't get the hildon input method popping up Jan 14 17:51:39 it worked without sapwood or? Jan 14 17:51:59 you can probably "just" dpkg --remove first-boot-wizard Jan 14 17:52:04 it worked before I got the first boot on the imager run I did last night Jan 14 17:52:17 k Jan 14 17:52:21 will try Jan 14 17:52:47 I don't know why the usbnet stops responding... Jan 14 18:22:59 http://s56.radikal.ru/i152/0901/d2/c937086a5f7a.png - Real-life Mer UI :) Jan 14 18:23:41 hello Jan 14 18:23:58 hey Jan 14 18:24:20 wazd!! Jan 14 18:24:36 honestly? that's actually running? Jan 14 18:24:42 what is working on 770 Mer? Jan 14 18:24:52 johnx: nope :P Jan 14 18:25:01 wazd, :P Jan 14 18:25:11 johnx: but looks cool anyway :D Jan 14 18:25:52 wazd, might not be impossible even with our current software base really... Jan 14 18:26:08 mrp, it boots, but there are issues with the theme engine Jan 14 18:26:15 wazd: cool, is it for real? Jan 14 18:26:32 wazd: and if it is, I think you still need to do something about close/minimize icons ;) Jan 14 18:27:10 RST38h: nah, just a mockup of course :) To illustrate how it will look in real life :) Jan 14 18:28:08 RST38h: First of all I need to do something with your icons since they are next in my to-do list :) Jan 14 18:28:12 wazd, so what icon drops down the menu? Jan 14 18:28:28 johnx: mer Jan 14 18:28:29 thanks =) Jan 14 18:28:51 770 being my only IT (daily used) not yet suitable for my testing then? Jan 14 18:29:45 mrp, if you're planning to help it's a good time to start I think, but if you expect something that you can use, then not yet Jan 14 18:30:23 mrp: what kind of skills do you have? ARM assembly and debugging could come in very handy atm :> Jan 14 18:30:34 mrp, keep in mind that only one person related to the mer project actually has a 770 so if other people don't step up to help, then it might not anywhere very fast Jan 14 18:30:38 mrp: Mer now is not ready for daily using so you have to wait :) Jan 14 18:31:47 johnx: i suspect we can use marquee-plugins to pull off something like wazd's stuff Jan 14 18:31:55 they're ubuntu desktop stuff Jan 14 18:32:10 yeah, I had a bit of a headache last time I tried, but I might give it another shot later Jan 14 18:32:55 Stskeeps, ARM assembly- you lost me already :( Jan 14 18:32:56 Stskeeps: why do we need ubuntu's desktop when we have Personal Launcher?) Jan 14 18:33:28 wazd, ubuntu mobile is maemo based and has the launcher you need to setup the layout you just mocked up :) Jan 14 18:33:47 johnx: aw, ok) Jan 14 18:34:04 johnx: looks like a hildon plugin really Jan 14 18:34:06 h-d Jan 14 18:34:14 is it a task navigator? Jan 14 18:34:17 yeah Jan 14 18:34:27 well one amongst others Jan 14 18:34:31 derived from task navigator item Jan 14 18:34:42 try read the README of the src Jan 14 18:34:44 ah, right Jan 14 18:37:05 wazd: i think that mer mockup deserves a blog post though ;) Jan 14 18:40:14 qwerty12_N800: i see they didn't take away your tablet yet Jan 14 18:40:38 Stskeeps, give it time... :D Jan 14 18:40:56 exit Jan 14 18:41:43 Stskeeps: the only thing this mockup lacks is "detailed" task switcher Jan 14 18:41:43 mnotes pushed in extras-devel ... :) Jan 14 18:42:00 Khertan_n810, it's python, right? Jan 14 18:42:07 the things is : it s only a mockup Jan 14 18:42:16 johnx: right Jan 14 18:42:41 wazd: maybe you can abuse the >> where things overflow into Jan 14 18:42:41 arg ! i ve forgotten a dependancy ! Jan 14 18:47:07 hum ... own record owned : load averge 5.67 Jan 14 18:49:48 Stskeeps: wtw, is notification message place hackable? Jan 14 18:49:58 like "loading" and stuff Jan 14 18:50:21 i ve tryed to use adblock to remove this ad which slow down the device ... but using it on a nit slow down more than displaying ad Jan 14 18:50:22 Stskeeps: right now it covers the scrollbar which is superannoying Jan 14 18:50:24 huhu Jan 14 18:50:32 wazd: top right or bottom left one? Jan 14 18:50:40 Khertan_n810_78, css & hosts Jan 14 18:50:43 Stskeeps: top-right Jan 14 18:51:51 wazd: well. everything is hackable. but how much of it is themeable is a different story Jan 14 18:51:56 qwerty : yep but i need to do it myself Jan 14 18:52:18 Stskeeps: ahha network applet messing up the usbnet I bet Jan 14 18:52:34 Khertan_n810, I just got rid of flash entirely :) Jan 14 18:53:30 i ve disable it too Jan 14 18:53:37 r2d2rogers: entirely possible yes Jan 14 18:53:43 but mibbit eat many ressources Jan 14 18:53:44 r2d2rogers: i'll put interfaces in 770 too Jan 14 18:54:20 Khertan_n810, aaah, right, and you need to use mibbit to get around your ISP's firewall right? Jan 14 18:54:32 k, I'm using the flash maemo to do some tinkering, but I've tacking down odd reboots, suspect metalayer crawler... Jan 14 18:54:42 right Jan 14 18:54:55 my phone data plan suck Jan 14 18:55:19 Khertan_n810_78, you can't run a proxy server or something on your desktop at home? or on another server somewhere? Jan 14 18:57:01 johnx i could ... Jan 14 18:57:19 but i ven t found the time to configure ikt yet Jan 14 18:57:24 Khertan_n810, sounds better than web-based IRC :) Jan 14 18:57:59 i should set sshd on port 80 ... :) Jan 14 18:58:06 another good plan :) Jan 14 18:58:09 on my home computer Jan 14 18:58:11 do they block https? Jan 14 18:58:34 just need to found how with ubuntu is the setting Jan 14 18:58:39 johnx: sometimes Jan 14 18:58:44 not always Jan 14 18:58:44 gah Jan 14 18:58:53 yeah this suck Jan 14 18:59:10 but it s unlimited :) Jan 14 18:59:15 i like how all isp se this word Jan 14 18:59:21 great lie ! Jan 14 18:59:35 well, an unlimited plan here is too expensive so I don't have any "real" web access on the train :P Jan 14 18:59:40 Khertan_n810_78, to change sshd port, edit Port line in /etc/ssh/sshd_config Jan 14 19:00:00 thx Jan 14 19:00:19 johnx: real unlimited plan is expensive too ere Jan 14 19:00:20 here Jan 14 19:00:37 by real i mean with full access not only port 80 Jan 14 19:01:03 but i fear that the sshd 80 port will be blocked too Jan 14 19:01:05 ah, well. I think my plan has full access but I get about 10MB "free" then it's pay-per-KB Jan 14 19:01:19 reboots seem to have been out of memory erros again Jan 14 19:01:29 on the maemo side Jan 14 19:01:33 as for accessing web page i need to set the user agent to a mobile Jan 14 19:01:43 like 'nokian95' Jan 14 19:02:07 r2d2rogers, do you ever feel like smashing your 770 out of frustration? :) Jan 14 19:02:14 i pay 18Euro for one hour of voice call + 9Euros for this unlimited plan Jan 14 19:02:32 for a real ulimited plan it s 69Euros Jan 14 19:02:36 qwerty12_N800: well, you should see the metal cover ..... Jan 14 19:02:37 ;) Jan 14 19:02:41 or 1Euros by Mb Jan 14 19:02:44 hehe Jan 14 19:03:59 the dpad area on my N800 is kinda funky. let's just say that I'm able to see more of the led when it glows... Jan 14 19:04:38 qwerty12_N800: I can imagine, I ahve rubbed off the power symbol on my work laptop's power button... Jan 14 19:04:42 nope Jan 14 19:04:47 just rebooted again Jan 14 19:04:53 wonder what's havingthe fit Jan 14 19:05:17 i think there is a proxy as making a rezquest without user agent result in : '403' Jan 14 19:05:21 can t do ping too Jan 14 19:05:21 maybe i should try tunneling by dns port Jan 14 19:06:09 Khertan_n810, that's really slow Jan 14 19:07:20 yep this could be a problem Jan 14 19:07:54 but if there is a proxy scanning user agent i doubt a ssh connection by port 80 will be a succes Jan 14 19:08:10 Stskeeps: I found an interface file in the /etc/network directory, it was setup for the host/PC side of the connection Jan 14 19:08:19 hmm. Jan 14 19:08:25 corrected and trying again Jan 14 19:09:12 how can i set the ssh password of rsync by ssh without letting a daemon running all tghe time Jan 14 19:09:33 or add a rsa key auth Jan 14 19:09:49 i don t found any solution Jan 14 19:10:35 add a rsa key auth, it's easy Jan 14 19:10:38 and doesnt require a daemon Jan 14 19:10:49 if you are ok with not password protecting the private key Jan 14 19:10:50 :P Jan 14 19:11:52 sts sts erwedsfrwdfs Jan 14 19:12:03 o_O Jan 14 19:12:14 yep this is the problem Jan 14 19:12:49 netwrok lag due to my incompetance Jan 14 19:13:05 edited my PC's /etc/network/interfaces Jan 14 19:14:13 i prefer to have an unsecure connection ... using ftp than a private without pass Jan 14 19:14:34 as i can crypt the data before transfering it Jan 14 19:14:39 Khertan_n810_78: then only way to do it is through an ssh agent :P Jan 14 19:15:42 train is going underground ... so no more connection... bye Jan 14 19:16:12 and thx for tips Jan 14 19:17:50 back Jan 14 19:18:56 wb Jan 14 19:20:09 Stskeeps: on doing it correctly, the interface file keeps the usbnet working very well Jan 14 19:20:37 goo Jan 14 19:20:37 d Jan 14 19:21:18 you know, with the internet and all, i'm surprised the social media isn't swarming with the typical "bush is going to declare martial law before he leaves office" or the likes Jan 14 19:21:34 did they already round up all the conspiracy theorists? ;) Jan 14 19:21:38 but I don't get any touch screen respnse..... Jan 14 19:21:59 r2d2rogers: i've pushed imager updates for 770 btw Jan 14 19:22:46 Stskeeps, we convinced the conspiracy nuts we could control them through hidden mind control chips in their computers :) Jan 14 19:23:29 "could"? Jan 14 19:23:32 how well does bzr run under maemo? Jan 14 19:23:42 * aquatix hides a window labelled `Control center' Jan 14 19:24:01 r2d2rogers: decently, if you get qwerty's port, and python Jan 14 19:24:02 :P Jan 14 19:26:09 will dig, for now I just got dns going again, so I can get out from the Mer instance Jan 14 19:26:23 I guess slower than usual Jan 14 19:26:31 and it's not fast to start with Jan 14 19:27:02 qwerty12_N800: yeah, that rebooting is getting a tad annoying....... Jan 14 19:27:34 johnx: we desperately need to get either 1) an xterm 2) ability for load-applet to kill root things or 3) a shut down button.. Jan 14 19:27:38 btw Jan 14 19:27:47 heh Jan 14 19:27:56 r2d2rogers, hehe, I had to disable watchdog to install gnome in deblet via maemo :) Jan 14 19:28:20 I'm getting reboots in Mer too Jan 14 19:28:36 thinking to swap to the other 770 for a hardware check Jan 14 19:29:04 Stskeeps, so osso-xterm doesn't behave in mer right, roxterm (and other xterms probably?) don't work with h-i-m Jan 14 19:29:11 a shutdown menu item might be realistic Jan 14 19:29:26 johnx: and libvte9 doesnt work with our for some strange reasons.. Jan 14 19:29:29 +gdk Jan 14 19:29:35 maybe it needs a recompile Jan 14 19:29:49 qwerty12's maemo port should work Jan 14 19:30:43 Maybe not, in Maemo, roxterm automatically detects h-i-m. I only did changes to the window etc, I never touched the input method :) Jan 14 19:30:52 curious Jan 14 19:30:53 huh Jan 14 19:30:56 so our vte? Jan 14 19:31:13 qwerty12: yeah, but you also use libvte9 i guess? Jan 14 19:31:14 er Jan 14 19:31:14 4 Jan 14 19:31:17 yes Jan 14 19:31:42 Have you just tried applying maemo's vte4 "maemo_changes" patch to vte9? Jan 14 19:31:52 a lot of input method stuff gets handled there Jan 14 19:32:16 i will, but it'll be first after the 23rd :/ Jan 14 19:33:17 johnx: btw - http://tabletui.wordpress.com/2009/01/12/repos-a-la-mer/ , comment 9 Jan 14 19:33:44 he contacted wazd so i asked him to pass him on to this channel :) Jan 14 19:34:30 Stskeeps, sounds *very* promising :) Jan 14 19:35:29 Stskeeps, ah, good! I looked at that and it seems to fit the bill. Will be great to have a couple "Mer exclusives" :) Jan 14 19:35:45 so MerEcho and this Jan 14 19:36:19 and whatever wazd comes up with ;) Jan 14 19:36:51 oh! I kinda washed over the other part of that post the first time too Jan 14 19:37:01 he wants to help with low level stuff. woo! Jan 14 19:37:11 yeah Jan 14 19:38:02 wazd is doing great PR so far :D Jan 14 19:38:09 re Jan 14 19:38:30 wb Jan 14 19:39:28 johnx: now we just need one of meiz's trademark videos of the boot process ;) Jan 14 19:40:47 hello Jan 14 19:41:43 one more screenshot, then bed: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v119/JohnX/mer-vga2.jpg Jan 14 19:42:27 hehe Jan 14 19:42:33 that could almost run on a cellphone, yeah ;) Jan 14 19:42:41 wtf, help works? :P Jan 14 19:42:54 yeah, scared me too :) Jan 14 19:43:10 qwerty12: you were speaking of a matchbox patch at some point btw Jan 14 19:43:12 regarding window placement Jan 14 19:43:20 but we compiled libhildonhelp so ... guess that was it Jan 14 19:43:21 I've got two questions... why is it so important to make a usb-network between the device and the pc to developt with esbox or pluthon? and why is the ip-adress in these plugins not changeable to link the plugins to wifi? Jan 14 19:44:02 however, I can't *close* the help window Jan 14 19:44:40 johnx: < Jan 14 19:44:45 or whatever the return thing is Jan 14 19:44:56 oh, right, vga Jan 14 19:44:59 "esc" :P Jan 14 19:45:02 Stskeeps, grr, if you set matchbox mode to free then by default, it fucks up the dialog sizes & placements. Matan released a replacement matchbox binary which solves those problems in free mode. But he didn't release a diff. He doesn't seem to scared of releasing source so if you ask him for the patch, I'm sure that he will happily oblige. Jan 14 19:45:18 qwerty12: alright, ta, will ask him Jan 14 19:45:19 Stskeeps, my escape key sends F3 I believe :( Jan 14 19:45:35 thopiekar: using the new versions of the plugins or the old ones? Jan 14 19:46:17 the newest... but let my check it once again.. Jan 14 19:47:10 Symbian again. Jan 14 19:47:15 I think the reason is that a) not many people are using them, b) the developers aren't using it in day-to-day development, c) it works for them, and that's enough Jan 14 19:47:53 * Jaffa has been thinking today again about Eclipse-based IDEs for JVM-based Maemo development: http://lists.evolvis.org/pipermail/jalimo-info/2009-January/000256.html Jan 14 19:48:02 johnx: weird fact btw - gnome-keyring comes up unthemed Jan 14 19:48:55 huh...must not inherit some env variable Jan 14 19:49:03 can you run it manually? Jan 14 19:49:24 i didn't investigate it that deepily Jan 14 19:49:33 i suspect i -want- to run it manually, since i want to get rid of it :P Jan 14 19:49:44 and just store its bloody keys and leave me in peace :P Jan 14 19:49:52 yeah :) Jan 14 19:50:01 Jaffa: you mention WebOS as being "nicer" but you haven't really seen it yet Jan 14 19:50:12 I think we can safely say this is one of those times when the user should have most of roots privileges Jan 14 19:51:57 Jaffa: have you actually tried Android development btw? Jan 14 19:52:22 RST38h: Not in terms of the platform (well, apart from the technical API details and debugging screenshots which are leaking out), but in terms of developer friendliness, I'm willing to put a fiver on it being better than Scratchbox, rootstraps and the rest. Jan 14 19:52:39 RST38h: Some simple stuff. I'm not talking (really) about the development platform, but the developer *tools*. Jan 14 19:52:42 btw, what do you people think QT being LGPL'ed will mean for mobile UIs? i mean, with it in symbian, maemo, and easily adaptable for embedded devices, and stable and well documented Jan 14 19:52:51 Jaffa: You mean the IDE? Jan 14 19:52:53 is it going to aid in the "fight" against android UI api and others? Jan 14 19:53:01 RST38h: amongst other things, yes. Jan 14 19:53:18 Jaffa: I don't think there are other things, a debugger maybe... Jan 14 19:53:25 Stskeeps, it is a huge blessing. pyqt is nice and simple Jan 14 19:53:47 development-wise Java is actually more of a problem than C/C++ (classpath etc) Jan 14 19:53:52 RST38h: Debugger's a big one. Remote debugging, even better. Have you seen the videos of iPhone development. Jan 14 19:54:06 No, but I do not use debuggers much anyway Jan 14 19:54:19 Jaffa: some of that matches some of my thoughts regarding SDK i had initially :) Jan 14 19:54:20 printf() usually solves all my problems Jan 14 19:54:27 Jaffa, is that the part where the apple sends the guy an NDA or where he can't run his app in the background :> Jan 14 19:54:41 Jaffa: I've got the newest plugin versions installed, but i can't even find a way to change the ip'S Jan 14 19:54:48 RST38h: Classpath's not really been an issue for the last 5 years or so. And now even with things like OSGi you can have multiple classpath versions in the same JVM Jan 14 19:55:09 MULTIPLE classpathes? Jan 14 19:55:13 RST38h: You're not going to start arguing that because you find printf() a perfectly satisfactory debugging technique, everyone else should too. Jan 14 19:55:20 I have problems with a single one, honestly... Jan 14 19:55:36 Jaffa: nah, not starting an argument here Jan 14 19:55:49 Jaffa: Just saying that for me personally debugger isn't a priority Jan 14 19:55:51 RST38h: multiple classpath version things. Useful for plugin environments where you want to run multiple separate plugins in the same environment, without resolving any dependency issues. Jan 14 19:56:10 Jaffa: Don't want to run any Java. Jan 14 19:56:22 Usually crashes on my computer anyway Jan 14 19:57:03 johnx: And, no - I'm not praising Apple's business practices. Their device. Or the iPhone. Just development tooling. Post-run profiling and debugging, remotely is a pretty compelling demo. Jan 14 19:57:10 Palm Pre is for pussies. New Obama's smartphone is for real men :D Jan 14 19:57:31 Jaffa, I largely agree with you that maemo development tools (and especially tool setup) could be better. I was just having a dig :) Jan 14 19:57:33 wazd: WinMobile? naah Jan 14 19:57:43 wazd: He should be running EPOC16 to be a real man Jan 14 19:57:45 johnx: bad time; *really* bad time ;-) Jan 14 19:57:49 RST38h: It's Win CE :) Jan 14 19:58:07 wazd: he has got command.com on his phone! Jan 14 19:58:15 elEeT Jan 14 19:58:21 wazd: so has problems on the same days that zunes does? :P Jan 14 19:59:07 Stskeeps: as I've read that Zune problem was actualy CPU problem :) Jan 14 19:59:08 Jaffa: I would say, a more useful idea would be to improve C/C++ debugging and development Jan 14 19:59:27 Jaffa: Let us say, take Geany on the desktop and integrate it with gdb running on the device Jan 14 19:59:46 Jaffa: And instead of the dreadful scratchbox, use plain ssh to connect and run gdb Jan 14 20:00:06 gdbserver..? :P Jan 14 20:00:14 something like that Jan 14 20:00:42 RST38h: Absolutely. More sensible development tools would be great. Go to it. Personally, I'm having difficulty motivating myself to do the things I want to do at the moment. And dealing with low-level C APIs, ain't it. Jan 14 20:01:07 Jaffa: The above stuff does not involve dealing with C Jan 14 20:01:19 Jaffa: Ironically, it is mostly shell scripting Jan 14 20:01:37 Jaffa: And possibly some perl/python to parse gdb output Jan 14 20:01:40 Yes, but despite supporting improving C tools; since I don't want to *use* C tools, where's my itch? Jan 14 20:02:11 Jaffa: Dunno, maybe do the same for Python instead? Jan 14 20:02:30 Jaffa: Doing it for Java is kinda impractical because nobody wants to use Java Jan 14 20:02:48 Jaffa: btw, you're speaking in similar lines of some thoughts quim had in a convo i had him over maemo reconstructed Jan 14 20:02:48 Jaffa: You may want to do it for JavaScript/XUL, THAT would be interesting Jan 14 20:03:03 i think we should disable all other computers and work entirely from the tablets for a week. we would streamline lots of things ;) Jan 14 20:03:14 regarding the supporting different languages (python, javascript, etc) Jan 14 20:03:15 Jaffa: But tthe JS/XUL stuff has to start with creating a decent execution environment Jan 14 20:03:31 lcuk: I did that Jan 14 20:03:38 RST38h, bull!!! certainly you or I dont like java, but lots do Jan 14 20:03:44 lcuk: Haven't done much development but read a lot of books :) Jan 14 20:03:51 heh Jan 14 20:03:59 lcuk: If lots of people liked Java, Jalimo would have gotten wider use by now Jan 14 20:04:19 is jalimo even in extras? Jan 14 20:04:21 lcuk: Which leads to conclusion that not a lot of people like Java Jan 14 20:04:24 It is Jan 14 20:04:24 . Jan 14 20:04:27 we are asked extremely often "does the device run java" they get a big fat ummmm no not really Jan 14 20:04:27 scary Jan 14 20:04:30 didn't know that Jan 14 20:04:31 You can install it right away Jan 14 20:04:42 lcuk: can't you build us GNU classpath? Jan 14 20:04:49 it'd run at least some Java that way Jan 14 20:04:50 lcuk: That is a question about j2me not java Jan 14 20:05:05 lcuk: And I remember ablog post about jalimo running j2me now Jan 14 20:05:19 Jaffa: BTW, want an idea? Jan 14 20:05:50 AStorm, im not a java person Jan 14 20:07:32 Stskeeps: no, there's been some discussion: a) it's not quite ready, b) since it's cross-platform they're using the OpenEmbedded build process which wouldn't work well with the autobuilder. Jan 14 20:07:48 Jaffa: There is already a project to make Google Gadgets run on Maemo. You can take THAT, get it to product condition and add a debugger to it Jan 14 20:08:21 Google Gadgets aren't applications. Jan 14 20:08:41 Jaffa: This would be extremely cool as it 1) gives you a library of gadgets 2) implements your idea of everything being a scriptable object 3) gets publicity Jan 14 20:08:46 And if "noone" wanted to use Java, it wouldn't be one of the most used languages on the planet. Jan 14 20:08:51 Jaffa: They look like applications to me Jan 14 20:09:03 RST38h: my "idea of everything being a scriptable object"? Jan 14 20:09:14 RST38h: they look like applets/portlets/widgets/gadgets to me. Jan 14 20:09:15 Jaffa: well you obviously like webOS Jan 14 20:09:25 Jaffa: you also like Android Jan 14 20:09:39 jaffa, technically whats the difference between an app and a gadget/widget thingy? Jan 14 20:09:48 Jaffa: Yes, but when widget stops being an application? Jan 14 20:10:19 Jaffa: they live on the desktop they are written in JavaScript (right?), so that must be IT> Jan 14 20:10:20 ? Jan 14 20:10:33 RST38h: I like the concept of webOS from an abstract technical point of view. If you've read my comments (I don't expect you to hang on my every word) you'll also know I see lots of intrinsic problems with doing anything really complex (i.e. SSH clients) Jan 14 20:10:53 agreed Jan 14 20:11:10 Although I guess you can always add a native API for that and call it Jan 14 20:11:19 RST38h: Assuming you're not being facetious, an application is something which fits in with the style guidelines and user experience of the rest of the system. A widget sits somewhere central and looks pretty. Jan 14 20:11:23 scripted languages get best performance and advantages when backed up with native libraries :) Jan 14 20:11:24 RST38h: Well, assuming Palm let you. Jan 14 20:11:47 Jaffa: With google widgets on the tablet you do not need to ask palm's permission Jan 14 20:12:05 jaffa ;) technically im sure its possible to make scruffy ugly widgets which do everything a bad business app does Jan 14 20:12:40 RST38h, palm widgets are html arent they? Jan 14 20:12:52 rendered with webkit or something? Jan 14 20:12:58 lcuk: no idea, palm claims they are Jan 14 20:13:07 doesnt seem unreasonable :) Jan 14 20:13:09 lcuk: but before we see the sdk, can't tell Jan 14 20:13:34 even when you do you might not see the 'binary' produced from your source ;) Jan 14 20:13:39 well doing shaped widgets in html is somewhat unoptimal Jan 14 20:14:34 maybe raw html it is, but i thought weve had transparent stuff for yonks. besides, where do you see shaped widgets? Jan 14 20:14:47 i recall most ui stuff being same as anywhere else Jan 14 20:15:36 green dialpad for example Jan 14 20:17:25 * r2d2rogers tries to figure out why his touchscreen isn't working Jan 14 20:18:05 r2d2rogers: check Xorg.0.log? Jan 14 20:18:30 Stskeeps: looking at it now... looks fine Jan 14 20:18:50 sets up TslibDevice as /dev/input/event2 Jan 14 20:19:21 did we agree that was the right event file? Jan 14 20:19:28 yup Jan 14 20:19:33 also, we disabled the cursor Jan 14 20:19:36 but that's long ago Jan 14 20:19:38 * wazd still tries to think over notifications and task switcher Jan 14 20:19:52 I can cat the device and only get output when I'm touching the screen Jan 14 20:20:35 where in the initfs is the firmware again? Jan 14 20:20:47 usr/lib/hotplug? Jan 14 20:20:49 cant recall Jan 14 20:20:51 wazd: btw there is one problem with showing task switcher at the top Jan 14 20:21:26 wazd: you now share a relatively short strip of the screen between status bar applets, task switcher, and window titles Jan 14 20:21:35 sts you got it ... thanks Jan 14 20:21:41 wazd: there is simply not enough space to accommodate them all Jan 14 20:22:08 RST38h: there won't be window title :) Jan 14 20:22:09 RST38h: task switcher overlaps into the switcher menu anyway? Jan 14 20:22:25 wazd: it may be better to remove separate icons for tasks completely and leave one taskswcher icon instead, the one that brings up tasks emnu Jan 14 20:22:27 menu Jan 14 20:22:40 wazd: and make that icon an applet, like other applets :) Jan 14 20:22:48 no window title -> not nice Jan 14 20:22:58 Sts: ? Jan 14 20:23:11 RST38h: why do you need title?) Useless feature imho Jan 14 20:23:26 RST38H: good point bout switcher though Jan 14 20:23:45 I am used to titles, like 'em Jan 14 20:23:51 RST38h: that on maemo the tasks that dont fit in, overflow into the >> then Jan 14 20:23:54 thing Jan 14 20:24:38 RST38h: but dropdown switcher would slow switching process in compare with original Maemo Jan 14 20:25:02 RST38h, titles are fine when you have space to kill Jan 14 20:25:29 Sts: yes, I suggest to keep only the >> icon and make it a status bar applet Jan 14 20:25:38 wazd, I love seeing the mer logo but have you considered having the app menu use the same icon as the menu button on the n8x0 for clarity Jan 14 20:25:39 ? Jan 14 20:25:41 wazd: it will but just a littl ebit Jan 14 20:25:55 wazd: but it will free more space for status bar applets like a proper clock Jan 14 20:26:03 RST38h, 2 clicks instead of 1 is a pain for one of the most often use cases Jan 14 20:26:11 b-man: want a new image to test with so you can be more prepared for 0.6? Jan 14 20:26:24 johnx: true... Jan 14 20:26:25 shure :) Jan 14 20:26:49 RST38h: Right now there's a space for 7 applets and 7 tasks Jan 14 20:26:54 RST38h, how about a button to show the title? :) Jan 14 20:27:11 RST38h: I'm not sure you've launched more than 7 tasks on maemo :) Jan 14 20:27:27 wazd: i launch ~7-8 :P Jan 14 20:27:38 browser windows can destroy things Jan 14 20:27:39 Stskepps: oh my :) Jan 14 20:27:49 Stskeeps: they are shown as one Jan 14 20:27:52 true Jan 14 20:27:59 Stskeeps: icon with numbers Jan 14 20:28:16 * b-man was just finishing up building merinstaller-1.5.1-1_armel.deb Jan 14 20:28:22 as long as there is a >> dropdown for tasks and a >> for applets it's not a problem Jan 14 20:29:15 Stskeeps: shure, i'll try out a nother image :) Jan 14 20:29:21 * johnx really sleeps Jan 14 20:29:43 b-man: yeah, uploading it Jan 14 20:30:22 b-man: http://stskeeps.subnetmask.net/mer/mer-n800-fs-only-image.tar.gz Jan 14 20:30:32 thanks Jan 14 20:31:16 we can even make not 7/7 but 6/8 or even 5/9 Jan 14 20:31:33 current issues: backspace in hildon-input-method kills Xorg, wifi isn't power saved, at all, and we have no dsme tools just yet :) Jan 14 20:31:40 wazd: 7 applets is a bit low Jan 14 20:31:48 qwerty12_N800: i have a jffs2 image too if you're bored. :P Jan 14 20:32:03 Stskeeps: k Jan 14 20:32:07 RST38h: same as the original, but I agree that it's not so much Jan 14 20:32:25 RST38h: that's why we can reallange numbers Jan 14 20:32:32 rearrange* Jan 14 20:33:27 Stskeeps, i'll have fun trying to flash it directly on the N800 :), but I guess it is not out of the realms of possibility that I use mtd-tools... Jan 14 20:33:36 qwerty12_N800: hehe Jan 14 20:33:44 * b-man starts downloading new image using wget in ubuntu jaunty Jan 14 20:35:01 We can maybe even allow user to chose Jan 14 20:35:23 I've half-merged the maemo changes patch to vte9 but it's being pretty anal re compiling... Jan 14 20:35:43 wazd: my favourite interface would be one i could lock/unlock and everything would be hildon home screen applets Jan 14 20:35:59 and some would have stronger z value/borders Jan 14 20:36:10 so you could set up your own layout Jan 14 20:36:25 Stskeeps: that would be difficult for developers :) Jan 14 20:36:43 Stskeeps: since they don't know what layout user is using) Jan 14 20:36:46 yeah, true Jan 14 20:36:58 they can learn some bloody window size independence then, or something Jan 14 20:36:58 :P Jan 14 20:37:07 Stskeeps: dsme-tools from deblet doesn't wor in mer? - it does in ubuntu jaunty Jan 14 20:37:19 edit: work Jan 14 20:37:45 they can learn some bloody window size independence then, or something Jan 14 20:37:47 b-man: you there? Jan 14 20:37:48 So, if you'll allow user to choose the number of tasks and applets shown - that would be super awesome Jan 14 20:37:50 about bloody time Jan 14 20:38:20 zakkm: yes Jan 14 20:38:27 :) Jan 14 20:38:42 b-man: im following your ubuntu januty guide and i got stuck at a part i was wondering if you could make it clear Jan 14 20:38:56 Next, we will copy over a bootstrap script witch will allow us to properly bootstrap Ubuntu Jaunty. Download the bootstrap-script.tar.gz file Jan 14 20:38:57 Then he could even make tasks as a dropdown menu and full taskbar would be covered with applets :) Jan 14 20:39:06 Or other way :) Jan 14 20:39:17 what was the problem? Jan 14 20:39:30 so im doing this on my nokia right Jan 14 20:39:37 so idownloaded the tar.gz to "Nokia N800" Jan 14 20:39:51 then im stuck Jan 14 20:40:52 yes Jan 14 20:40:52 do you have debootstrap installed? Jan 14 20:41:04 no Jan 14 20:41:08 is it just in apt-get? Jan 14 20:41:16 yup :) Jan 14 20:41:22 you will have to copy that file to /usr/share/devbootstrap/scripts Jan 14 20:41:36 b-man: btw did you remember the part about binutils and md5sum in your guide? Jan 14 20:41:48 Mer looks interesting. :) Jan 14 20:41:52 so i extract the tar.gz and copy contents to /usr/share/debootstrap/strips? Jan 14 20:42:02 ....................no Jan 14 20:42:42 zakkm: remember to un-pack it first ;) Jan 14 20:42:45 hey, do we have a port of nethack to nit? Jan 14 20:43:07 there's a hildonized os2008 one somewhere Jan 14 20:43:11 no repo has binutils? Jan 14 20:43:19 or a terminal one elsewhere Jan 14 20:43:52 package binutils is not avaliable.. according to apt-get Jan 14 20:43:57 which debootstrap wants Jan 14 20:44:28 zakkm: you might need to add the deblet repo then Jan 14 20:44:31 roope: it wouldn't be possible without all the work put into hildon etc by nokia though :) we hope it can benefit both community and benefit nokia. having a place community can run amok could yield interesting ideas :) Jan 14 20:44:44 deblet repo for maemo? Jan 14 20:44:56 b-man: binutils is in sdk tools i think Jan 14 20:45:12 zakkm: yes Jan 14 20:45:15 * b-man takes note of adding deblet repo to guide Jan 14 20:45:20 qwerty12_N800, somewhere != extras Jan 14 20:45:26 b-man: and no, you don't need to add deblet repo though Jan 14 20:45:36 stskeeps: what should i do then Jan 14 20:45:36 debootstrap is in extras(-devel) Jan 14 20:45:40 sec.. Jan 14 20:45:44 AStorm, somewhere = www.google.com Jan 14 20:45:48 ? i have extras-devel Jan 14 20:46:00 no theres debootsrap but it wants binutils.. which isnt in it Jan 14 20:46:00 nah, I had no meaningful hits Jan 14 20:46:12 qwerty12_N800, gimme an url Jan 14 20:46:17 b-man: for md5: http://trac.tspre.org/svn/deblet/trunk/packages/installer/deblet-installer/usr/libexec/deblet/md5sum Jan 14 20:46:22 chmod +x, put in /bin Jan 14 20:46:33 zakkm: try apt-get update and see if that helps Jan 14 20:46:45 Stskeeps: thanks Jan 14 20:46:55 jaffa: http://www.palminfocenter.com/news/9685/interview-with-pandora-about-developing-for-webos/ Jan 14 20:47:00 doubt it , but okay Jan 14 20:47:25 RST38h: ta. I see "Pandora", I don't think web radio, I think vapourwareish handheld ;-) Jan 14 20:47:56 AStorm, http://personal.telefonica.terra.es/web/n770galaxy/IT2008/nethack_3.4.3_armel.deb - knock yourself out ;) Jan 14 20:48:19 b-man: same thing Jan 14 20:48:20 zakkm: if that fails, you can get the deblet repo from http://trac.tspre.org/projects/deblet Jan 14 20:49:24 b-man: page is loading Jan 14 20:49:52 Jaffa: naah, different pandora. but read what he says about the sdk Jan 14 20:50:16 RST38h: Yeah, reading it now. Interesting stuff. Jan 14 20:50:55 b-man: working good so far Jan 14 20:51:05 cool :) Jan 14 20:51:29 b-man: so i unpack the tar.gz .. move file to /usr/share/debootstrap/scripts/jaunty and then do the insmod's? Jan 14 20:51:40 yup Jan 14 20:52:56 hey so i am using the internal email client on n810 to access my gmail imap on that account using the web interface i can send emails from more than one address is that achievable Jan 14 20:53:17 also internal keyboard ftw! Jan 14 20:53:29 Stskeeps: silly question; what is the purpose of md5sums and binutills, and how are thay used? Jan 14 20:53:47 b-man: binutils, unpacking the packages, md5sum, validating downloads Jan 14 20:53:59 is the wikipedia offline thingy any useful? Jan 14 20:54:00 ok Jan 14 20:54:11 zakkm: do you go to any pub quizzes? Jan 14 20:54:14 noooo dont use md5 Jan 14 20:54:25 pub quizzes? Jan 14 20:54:28 whats that? Jan 14 20:54:34 ohh -.- Jan 14 20:54:37 no but im in highschool? Jan 14 20:54:47 i am too Jan 14 20:54:49 i mean like is it a well-done application Jan 14 20:54:51 drinking games based on answering quizzes :P Jan 14 20:55:00 at that point, offline wikipedia -is very usefu- Jan 14 20:55:00 :P Jan 14 20:55:10 RST38h: I think he hits the nail on the head (as we supposed): a certain class of apps will be easy to write, will integrate well and make dealing with high-level XML/JSON-based upstream web content easy. But somethings will be hard, properly Hard. Then again, everyone wrote Nintendo off for releasing a system which was underpowered compared with their competitors, but the games were still compelling enough to sell. Casual gaming is on a resurgence, AIU Jan 14 20:55:40 Jaffa: This problem is different from Nintendo's Jan 14 20:56:13 Jaffa: Nintendo may have had underpowered hardware but did not restrict access to it, so you could code all assembly you wanted Jan 14 20:56:20 anyohne on the internal email client Jan 14 20:56:41 Shadow_M: nah, i use claws mail Jan 14 20:56:51 modest makes me want to punch my tablet occasionally, so Jan 14 20:56:56 and i like my tablet. Jan 14 20:57:00 Jaffa: Here you have another (definitely not the first, after Android and the initial Apple effort) attempt to make an "easy" API for app developers Jan 14 20:57:08 ah something about claws that i didnt like Jan 14 20:57:21 RST38h: To an extent. You can't do photo-realistic gaming on a Wii (without stupid amounts of hand-optimisation which just isn't economical) and can on an Xbox 360/PS3. You (probably) can't do much in the way of high-speed first person shooters on webOS; but you can do puzzle/simple/casual games like Tetris. Jan 14 20:57:24 Jaffa: And, of course, if you use web page tools to write an app then any app that is not a web page will be difficult to write Jan 14 20:57:38 anyone got a hint for getting bluetooth keyboard working from commandline? Jan 14 20:57:44 i tried it didnt like it all that much and i havnt had an issue with modest and i dont want to punch mine Jan 14 20:58:01 Jaffa: Let me take another cheap shot Jan 14 20:58:06 Jaffa: How about Chess? ;) Jan 14 20:58:10 RST38h: And the great thing about Maemo is that you're not limited to a single API or a single layer. No-one's arguing about that. But having a better system's useless if no-one's developing for it. Jan 14 20:58:34 Jaffa: Nobody is developing for webOs YET Jan 14 20:58:37 RST38h: I think the "not a web page" argument doesn't hold water with the way that things like HTML5 and rich JavaScript apps are going. Jan 14 20:58:46 Jaffa: So let us not be hasteful with analysis Jan 14 20:58:50 RST38h: Well, no-one outside the commercial pre-launch partners. Jan 14 20:59:14 Jaffa: In reality, the "not a web page" argument is not as black-and-white as I have stated it Jan 14 20:59:50 Jaffa: Rather, it feels like "the less static your application is, the more difficult it is to do in HTML and JS" Jan 14 20:59:52 RST38h: I'd happily put (some) money on more apps being in Palm's App Catalog within, say, 3 months of launch than there are in downloads.maemo.org/OS2008 after 2 years. Jan 14 21:00:00 RST38h: No argument from me. Jan 14 21:00:21 RST38h: So the "no-one's developing for webOS *YET*" is a valid point, but I think we can safely extrapolate. Jan 14 21:00:25 But my suspicion is that at some point Palm will break and publish a native API Jan 14 21:00:30 i have a new printer :D Jan 14 21:00:37 Jaffa: Can't safely extrapolate in this business Jan 14 21:00:38 Whether anyone will be developing for it in 3 years time, who knows. (Then again, same goes for Maemo ;-)) Jan 14 21:00:48 Jaffa: Way too many variables Jan 14 21:00:51 RST38h: Agreed. A native API is inevitable. Jan 14 21:01:08 Jaffa: not just technical ones but economic, social, etc Jan 14 21:01:12 * b-man starts to be a little envyus about palm pre's UI Jan 14 21:01:14 Palm's business is dependent on Pre/webOS being a success. Jan 14 21:01:37 For all I know, Palm may go tits up before it releases the Pre to the masses Jan 14 21:01:47 Or pull it pre-launch like the Foleo. Jan 14 21:01:58 That would be a joke Jan 14 21:02:05 Hmm, I wonder how much of Foleo's Linux-based OS is underneath webOS. Jan 14 21:02:28 "linux-based OS" is otherwise known as "linux", so all of it. Jan 14 21:02:45 b-man: when i run the first insmod i get Jan 14 21:02:49 RST38h: Bollocks. Jan 14 21:02:59 insmod: cannot insert '/mnt/initfs/lib/modules/2.6.21-omap1/mbcache.ko': File exists (-1): File exists Jan 14 21:03:13 zakkm: fine Jan 14 21:03:15 Android is Linux-based. So was the Zaurus OS. Same kernel, but the libraries building it up are different. Jan 14 21:03:18 ignore it, it means Jan 14 21:03:25 Jaffa: All right, let us see Jan 14 21:03:26 it's already inserted Jan 14 21:03:38 zakkm: ignore those errors, i get them all the time ;) Jan 14 21:03:42 oh okay :) Jan 14 21:03:44 sorry Jan 14 21:03:45 i want to do this right Jan 14 21:03:54 Jaffa: They have all got Linux kernel. They have all got libc/libm/libz/etc. Jan 14 21:03:58 foleo was based on linux 2.4 Jan 14 21:04:07 suihkulokki: It was? Jan 14 21:04:20 I doubt much from that port is going to be useful for a omap3 device :P Jan 14 21:04:21 Jaffa: They have all got pretty much the same drivers. Same busybox. Same basic utilities (cat/ps/who/etc) Jan 14 21:04:35 b-man: how lnog would the debootstrap take? rough estimate Jan 14 21:04:39 Jaffa: Some of them even got the same X11/SDL/etc Jan 14 21:04:43 RST38h: PulseAudio/ALSA/gstreamer? Xorg/kdrive/Framebuffer? Gtk/Qt/Clutter/WebKit? Jan 14 21:04:56 Jaffa: These do not consitute a "system" Jan 14 21:05:07 Jaffa: Your desktop PC may have ALL OF THEM at once Jan 14 21:05:12 zakkm: 1/2 hour to 1.5 hours at best Jan 14 21:05:13 RST38h: So? Jan 14 21:05:20 ohh error Jan 14 21:05:29 E: Couldn't download dists/jaunty/main/binary-armel/Packages Jan 14 21:05:35 Jaffa: see the last pic here: http://www.palminfocenter.com/news/9439/palm-foleo-hands-on-gallery/ Jan 14 21:05:37 * Jaffa ain't gonna get into a semantic debate now over what a "system" is. You win. Jan 14 21:05:37 Jaffa: So what we have is the same Linux (not some "linux-based OS") with some different app frameworks on top Jan 14 21:06:04 zakkm: how strong is your connection? Jan 14 21:06:13 it was like 3rd one Jan 14 21:06:15 suihkulokki: Oh yeah. Jan 14 21:06:15 strong enough Jan 14 21:06:25 hmm Jan 14 21:06:25 W: http://ports.ubuntu.com/dists/jaunty/main/binary-armel/Packages.bz2 was corrupt Jan 14 21:06:32 Jaffa: It is actually important to understand so that next time when some Motorla is telling you of a miraculous "linux based system" you just know they have taken a standard embedded linux Jan 14 21:06:35 im sshing from my pc too Jan 14 21:06:39 so the connection has to be on Jan 14 21:06:41 and put some glazing on top Jan 14 21:06:50 bonus points for anyone who recognizes the "terminal" application from the version number :) Jan 14 21:06:53 RST38h: Montavista's "standard embedded Linux" or someone elses Jan 14 21:07:10 Jaffa: The differences are usually cosmetic Jan 14 21:07:22 did you use my jaunty script? don't use the one that comes from debootstrap Jan 14 21:07:30 Now, if one of these companies takes Linux kernel and makes drastic changes to it, THAT is a linux based system indeed :) Jan 14 21:07:35 RST38h: Having put together at least 2 different Linux distributions (and a kernel does not an OS make), I think I understand what someone means by "Linux-based OS", thankyouverymuchkthxby Jan 14 21:07:35 yes i removed the symlink Jan 14 21:07:40 and copied the one from tar.gz Jan 14 21:07:51 then no need to argue Jan 14 21:08:02 I don't like being patronised. Jan 14 21:08:18 * b-man ponders Jan 14 21:08:21 Not trying to patronise, but am trying to define things Jan 14 21:08:35 Always the required first step before discussing them Jan 14 21:08:39 lardman|gone, can i trick you into retesting in fremantle sdk pre alpha some of the kernel/dsp bugs you filed against diablo? or is the sdk still missing some of required components? :-/ Jan 14 21:08:42 Most of the time, your over accurate desire to define things gets in the way of useful discussion. Jan 14 21:08:59 Jaffa: that is because you take it for an argument :) Jan 14 21:09:05 andre___, does the dsp work in the emulator? Jan 14 21:09:08 It's not an argument yet, usually :) Jan 14 21:09:29 Who cares if webOS is "Linux-based" or "Linux"? I can't take an ARM Linux binary from one system and run it on the other. Application portability is a good a definition of an OS as any other. Jan 14 21:09:47 lcuk, i simply don't know (never been hacking on low level stuff ever), hence i ask idiot questions :-D Jan 14 21:10:12 zakkm: have you tryed re-connecting to the wed, that usually fixes it for me Jan 14 21:10:15 seems reasonable :D i always thought the hardware emulation was minimal Jan 14 21:10:38 okay i will Jan 14 21:10:41 jaffa, RST38h the most important thing is that the term "webOS" is a complete lie :D Jan 14 21:10:42 Jaffa: Sometimes you can :) Jan 14 21:11:00 lcuk: Well, it is a trademark, not a lie Jan 14 21:11:04 andre___, qemu in diablo in diablo sdk cannot emulate even "standard" audio :) Jan 14 21:11:09 eeks Jan 14 21:11:11 k Jan 14 21:11:16 heh Jan 14 21:11:18 But I guess that in physical reality "webOS" is basically a runtime framework on top of Linux Jan 14 21:11:47 Same as "Android" is just a java-like runtime Jan 14 21:11:51 its a web browser Jan 14 21:12:00 b-man: same thing Jan 14 21:12:05 lcuk: Not based on what the PandoraFM guy said Jan 14 21:12:07 lcuk: did you see the interview above? Jan 14 21:12:22 theres an interview? Jan 14 21:12:27 b-man: going to pastebin it Jan 14 21:12:41 b-man: http://pastebin.com/m235581c3 Jan 14 21:12:56 lcuk: http://www.palminfocenter.com/news/9685/interview-with-pandora-about-developing-for-webos/ Jan 14 21:12:57 got it Jan 14 21:13:00 thx ill read Jan 14 21:14:11 zakkm: hmm, it looks like it might be a problem on the server side Jan 14 21:14:19 a huh Jan 14 21:14:25 so should i wait a day or so? Jan 14 21:15:20 mabe.. :( Jan 14 21:15:26 ;( Jan 14 21:15:29 i wanted ubuntu ;p Jan 14 21:16:06 zakkm: i'll see what the problem is soon, don't worry ;) Jan 14 21:16:47 * b-man takes a look.. Jan 14 21:16:58 :D w00t they are gonna use flash Jan 14 21:17:57 zakkm, did you have bzip2 installed by eny chance? Jan 14 21:18:16 i should? ill double check though Jan 14 21:18:43 b-man: bzip2 is already the newest version. Jan 14 21:19:02 hmm.... Jan 14 21:19:10 Did you install md5sum like Stskeeps said? Jan 14 21:19:17 oh well whatever, just thought it would be cool Jan 14 21:20:06 what qwerty12_N800 said Jan 14 21:20:16 the problem is exactly md5sum not installed in /bin/sh and chmod +x'ed Jan 14 21:20:18 er Jan 14 21:20:21 /bin/md5sum Jan 14 21:20:24 not /bin/sh Jan 14 21:20:29 zakkm: don't give up :D Jan 14 21:20:32 which would completely brick your tablet Jan 14 21:20:42 never give up Jan 14 21:21:07 Stskeeps, could the tablet actually be bricked Jan 14 21:21:18 its called WSOD :) Jan 14 21:21:22 Shadow_M: if you overwrite NOLO you're pretty much fucked Jan 14 21:21:37 unlesss you do a cold flash, which is a special story Jan 14 21:21:42 ah hmm Jan 14 21:22:10 service point can restore it Jan 14 21:22:35 even if you ruin the os Jan 14 21:22:39 right Jan 14 21:23:06 i mean i thought generally it was just like another linux comp Jan 14 21:23:23 zakkm: Packages.bz2 unpacked for me.. hmmm Jan 14 21:23:33 Stskeeps: ssh -X is nice for getting through the first boot wizard, X tunneled through ssh let me complete the wizard Jan 14 21:23:42 b-man: ill reinstall bzip2 and try agin Jan 14 21:23:42 * b-man does some more pondering... Jan 14 21:23:49 k Jan 14 21:24:28 Setting up bzip2 (1.0.4-2maemo5) ... Jan 14 21:24:31 if that helps at all? Jan 14 21:25:01 b-man: same error Jan 14 21:25:11 hmm Jan 14 21:25:29 zakkm: ls -l /bin/md5sum Jan 14 21:25:51 Nokia-N800-43-7:~# ls -l /bin/md5sum Jan 14 21:25:52 ls: /bin/md5sum: No such file or directory Jan 14 21:25:58 well there you go. Jan 14 21:26:00 *cough* Jan 14 21:26:02 lol Jan 14 21:26:09 ? Jan 14 21:26:13 my fault? Jan 14 21:26:22 http://trac.tspre.org/svn/deblet/trunk/packages/installer/deblet-installer/usr/libexec/deblet/md5sum Jan 14 21:26:23 they told you to install that Jan 14 21:26:24 zakkm: that's the problem! XD Jan 14 21:26:25 put in /bin/md5sum Jan 14 21:26:29 chmod +x /bin/md5sum Jan 14 21:26:30 Kinda funny when Stskeeps said it and I pointed it out again ;) Jan 14 21:26:31 try again. Jan 14 21:26:37 qwerty12_N800: i've said it three times now. Jan 14 21:26:37 :P Jan 14 21:26:49 i heard ya Jan 14 21:26:53 Stskeeps, hehe :p Jan 14 21:26:53 thought u2 were talking to eachother Jan 14 21:26:54 not to me Jan 14 21:27:06 [22:18] Did you install md5sum like Stskeeps said? Jan 14 21:27:07 :P Jan 14 21:27:14 Nokia-N800-43-7:/bin# ls -l /bin/md5sum Jan 14 21:27:15 -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 19971 Oct 4 16:45 /bin/md5sum Jan 14 21:27:17 Nokia-N800-43-7:/bin# Jan 14 21:27:18 sorrry :( Jan 14 21:27:43 qwerty12_N800: we need to figure out a way to determine which /dev/mmc is the internal and which is the external.. a sane way, that is Jan 14 21:27:45 yay it goes :) Jan 14 21:28:01 wohooo!!!! Jan 14 21:28:06 Stskeeps: just a thought, wouldnt internal be mounted first by maemo? Jan 14 21:28:07 qwerty12_N800: i'm thinking .. /proc/partitions, mknod somewhere Jan 14 21:28:14 zakkm: it's not that easy it somewhere Jan 14 21:28:21 * b-man is definetly adding md5sums to guide ;) Jan 14 21:28:42 b-man: by the time im done installing, your have to redo the guide ;p Jan 14 21:28:46 Stskeeps, :/, N810 is the ultimate fuck up device :( Jan 14 21:29:00 zakkm: lol Jan 14 21:29:06 qwerty12_N800: and then using that mknod to mkfs on and mount and such, and get internal/external based on sysfs Jan 14 21:29:15 b-man: how much does it download? Jan 14 21:29:17 this script? Jan 14 21:29:58 not quite shure... if i can recall, 128-200 mb Jan 14 21:30:08 b-man: s/shure/sure/ ;) Jan 14 21:30:15 (spelling nazi.) Jan 14 21:30:20 <-, that is Jan 14 21:30:20 :P Jan 14 21:30:21 lol Jan 14 21:30:33 i've herd that one! Jan 14 21:30:45 "spelling natzi" Jan 14 21:31:17 b-man: how fast is ubuntu on it? Jan 14 21:31:21 gnome that is Jan 14 21:31:45 if you use swap, not so bad :) Jan 14 21:31:46 could i replace window manager? Jan 14 21:32:10 i'm not shure Jan 14 21:33:47 stskeeps: sorry if my spelling is horible, i'm using a on-screen kb most of the time ;p Jan 14 21:34:01 https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/jaunty/armel/fvwm-crystal/3.0.5.dfsg-2 would that be possible to use? Jan 14 21:34:14 b-man: fair enough Jan 14 21:34:29 b-man: you can remove text completion errors with tap and hold ;) Jan 14 21:34:46 oh Jan 14 21:34:57 according to Benson, at least Jan 14 21:35:03 heh Jan 14 21:35:05 b-man link to the guide? Jan 14 21:36:38 hold on (my tablet is being slow) Jan 14 21:36:54 b-man: you code on your tablet too? Jan 14 21:36:57 as in, directly Jan 14 21:37:09 yes :) Jan 14 21:37:18 well that explains some things i guess Jan 14 21:37:32 hehe XD Jan 14 21:37:42 i think its time to get a external keyboard Jan 14 21:37:50 maybe bluetooth Jan 14 21:38:36 Shadow_M: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=254257#post254257 Jan 14 21:39:16 thanks Jan 14 21:39:18 Stskeeps: that's why i'm getting a laptop :) Jan 14 21:42:34 b-man: staying here for 15 minutes? Jan 14 21:42:46 god its wintery here, there is over 12" of snow and it's going to only be -9 F here tonight ;p Jan 14 21:43:13 shure, if i can :) Jan 14 21:43:44 damn connection if failing on me Jan 14 21:43:52 edit: is Jan 14 21:48:13 gah Jan 14 21:48:22 how the heck do you find the major/minor for a device in sh? Jan 14 21:49:25 afaik, ls -l lists it Jan 14 21:49:33 busybox one too even Jan 14 21:50:12 yes, but its hard to get into shell ; Jan 14 21:50:12 ) Jan 14 21:50:41 * b-man wonders why debootstrap doesn't have md5sums and binutills as dependences Jan 14 21:51:20 b-man: cos i didnt upload it Jan 14 21:51:37 but yes, it ought to :P Jan 14 21:53:32 Stskeeps, ls -l /dev/mmcblk0 | awk '{print $5, $6}' ;) Jan 14 21:54:24 grrr, touch screen isn't working properly because hildon messed up >:( Jan 14 21:54:39 rebooting* Jan 14 21:59:15 i'm back Jan 14 22:00:21 I'm back Jan 14 22:00:23 2) Jan 14 22:00:31 heh Jan 14 22:11:15 b-man: http://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/guess_intext <- use this code for guessing INT_CARD and EXT_CARD instead Jan 14 22:11:32 it gives output in form /dev/mmcblkX Jan 14 22:11:45 I see my awk trick worked ;) Jan 14 22:11:48 yes Jan 14 22:11:49 :P Jan 14 22:12:05 and you just earned yourself nit-kernel-compat scripter job Jan 14 22:12:10 mr "i am not a good scripter" Jan 14 22:12:22 bollocks :p Jan 14 22:12:25 :P~ Jan 14 22:13:16 Stskeeps: ok, i'll add it to the installer. Jan 14 22:14:04 yep Jan 14 22:14:14 anyone with a N810 in the room? :P Jan 14 22:16:16 * b-man starts removing a bunch of stuff from merinstall.sh Jan 14 22:18:09 scary, i'm almost reacing as many thanks as i have posts Jan 14 22:18:22 reaching Jan 14 22:18:22 ok, this guy agreed to help!) Jan 14 22:18:29 He will be here tommorow Jan 14 22:18:31 woo Jan 14 22:19:08 i'll be gone 10-15 or so Jan 14 22:19:12 maybe on from tablet Jan 14 22:29:38 * wazd thinks he came up with task switcher finally Jan 14 22:30:06 I have a question for all the Linux Gurus among us: is there any way to see what the current draw on the battery is? I can get the current voltage via Matan's retu-adc program, but I also need to know current draw. Any way? Jan 14 22:30:56 Linux Guru's definitely not me :) Jan 14 22:31:04 ~linux guru Jan 14 22:32:20 BrentDC: install ftd Jan 14 22:32:27 lol. I'm trying to better gauge battery level (using Python & a little math), but the jumpy voltage reading isn't enough help Jan 14 22:32:33 ftd? Jan 14 22:32:46 i think you might be able to apt-get install ftd really Jan 14 22:32:54 no Jan 14 22:32:56 oh? Jan 14 22:33:01 it was removed. Jan 14 22:33:04 that's silly Jan 14 22:34:20 it was only in the early leak of diablo, I happened to notice it when browsing in red pill mode... and then proceeded to make screenies... Jan 14 22:34:21 Google isn't revealing much: is it in any of the repo's (chinook?) Jan 14 22:34:37 oh Jan 14 22:35:27 http://timeless.justdave.net/repository/catalogue.tableteer.nokia.com/updates/diablo/ Jan 14 22:35:42 search for ftd and use dpkg to install Jan 14 22:36:01 you may have to resolve dependencies manually Jan 14 22:36:05 and the usual warning it may blow up your tablet or cause you horrible burns Jan 14 22:36:06 :P Jan 14 22:37:00 should i install the plugin or the other one? Jan 14 22:37:07 both Jan 14 22:37:11 ok Jan 14 22:37:24 thanks, sts & qwerty Jan 14 22:37:52 if installed right: http://qwerty12.maemobox.org/screenies/Ftd-battery.png :) Jan 14 22:45:58 which apps put themselves in init.d to launch at startup? i'll have to do something similar but don't want to test it a hundred times give me an example and i'll adapt it to my app Jan 14 22:50:09 hurray! the heat is back in my bedroom Jan 14 22:56:01 ok, I got ftd installed: wow lots of information. But it raises a new question: ftd seems to basically be a frontend to klogd....is there any way to access klogd's info via a CLI? (so i can poll and record the data). Jan 14 22:59:01 ftd also acceses bme Jan 14 22:59:20 which is not klogd Jan 14 22:59:51 so any way to access that, too? Jan 14 23:02:13 StsN800: http://s57.radikal.ru/i157/0901/17/7db435302905.png Jan 14 23:02:27 StsN800: possible to make it twice wider Jan 14 23:03:31 wazd, confused by the white window selection though Jan 14 23:04:07 not obvious it belongs to the two squares Jan 14 23:04:24 StsN800: yep, that's the problem Jan 14 23:05:00 StsN800: but principe is clear I think, this is just small design problem) Jan 14 23:05:12 yeah Jan 14 23:05:19 Is that actually what mer will look like? Or just a mockup? Jan 14 23:05:27 mockup Jan 14 23:05:34 Awww Jan 14 23:05:36 atm Jan 14 23:05:41 :-) Jan 14 23:06:25 jeez, I just had an "OMG, I must install Mer" moment Jan 14 23:06:37 :) Jan 14 23:07:11 StsN800: I think task switcher drop menu should be twice wider, for titles Jan 14 23:07:48 StsN800: maybe it can be just standart maemo switcher btw Jan 14 23:07:59 StsN800: just placed on top Jan 14 23:08:02 ui is a bit difficult touch wise isn't it? Jan 14 23:08:37 StsN800: yep, I had to redraw simple hildon menu Jan 14 23:09:03 StsN800: but as I said, maybe the best way would be to utilize maemo task switcher Jan 14 23:09:04 or do i have fat fingers;) Jan 14 23:09:12 yeah Jan 14 23:09:59 looks great though:) Jan 14 23:10:18 hope you're having fun doing it Jan 14 23:10:21 StsN800: and what do you think bout customizable number of apps/applets? Jan 14 23:10:53 StsN800: actually I'm a slave in south africa that makes it for water :) Jan 14 23:11:18 fair enough Jan 14 23:11:42 i raise your wage with a beer;) Jan 14 23:12:19 StsN800: So I think it's pretty good to allow user to choose whether he needs more apps or more applets on top Jan 14 23:12:59 yeah, should ofcourse be a setting Jan 14 23:13:35 blog about it - good way to document your designs Jan 14 23:14:55 and it's a good PR :) Jan 14 23:15:01 yeah Jan 14 23:15:24 and especially cos my memory is lousy Jan 14 23:22:17 StsN800: have you already revamped rescue menu?) Jan 14 23:26:00 StsN800: i'm haveing problems with scp; scp merinstaller_1.5.1-1_armel.deb bman@trac.tspre.org:~/www Jan 14 23:26:31 error? Jan 14 23:26:43 ssh: Could not resolve hostname trac.tspre.org: Name or service not known Jan 14 23:26:48 yes Jan 14 23:28:49 StsN800: http://i039.radikal.ru/0901/d5/3a9207c44b02.png Jan 14 23:29:09 b-man, ping www.yahoo.com Jan 14 23:30:20 wazd, stylus distance wise i would align left side of icon with left side of box Jan 14 23:30:46 StsN800: what does this do? Jan 14 23:30:48 or finger wise, center align Jan 14 23:31:11 b-man, checks if your resolv.conf is messed Jan 14 23:32:36 StsN800: what box exactly?) Jan 14 23:32:53 StsN800: aw, got it Jan 14 23:34:00 StsN800: Well, I'd prefer visual relation with top task switcher Jan 14 23:34:30 b-man, ip is 84.238.10.195 otherwise Jan 14 23:34:44 ok Jan 14 23:35:10 StsN800: If it would be at right - some misunderstanding with applets should appear Jan 14 23:36:12 my main gripe is i have to go / down instead of | :) Jan 14 23:36:41 to switch Jan 14 23:37:09 \ would be to close app but its | atm Jan 14 23:37:39 StsN800: maybe place switcher icon in the beginning of the row Jan 14 23:38:04 also possible Jan 14 23:39:53 anyhow Jan 14 23:39:58 sleep time Jan 14 23:40:57 gnite) Jan 14 23:41:17 uploaded merinstaller_1.5.1-1; http://trac.tspre.org/bman/merinstaller_1.5.1-1_armel.deb sorce; http://trac.tspre.org/bman/merinstaller_1.5.1-1.tar.gz Jan 14 23:47:48 b-man, thanks Jan 14 23:48:05 with updated int_card stuff? Jan 14 23:50:05 yup :) Jan 14 23:50:58 k, will try later myself Jan 15 00:07:04 StsN800: still here?) Jan 15 00:08:04 StsN800: how bou that? http://s45.radikal.ru/i109/0901/9d/c13ce1d0ee25.png Jan 15 00:11:29 wazd, before it gets ingrained in, you know the "r" in mer logo - it always feels like its 1-2pixels too far to the right. have you tried bringing it in a tiny bit to see if it looks more balanced? Jan 15 00:15:04 lcuk: yep, it's not :) Jan 15 00:16:17 lcuk: that's the best position to my mind Jan 15 00:16:47 wazd, im just wiggling it backwards and forwards in psp Jan 15 00:17:19 lcuk: but maybe you're right, now I'm starting to think that it's really 1px right Jan 15 00:18:20 lcuk: that sucks cause then I need to redraw rescue menu Jan 15 00:18:24 heh - i know its all an optical illusion Jan 15 00:18:30 lcuk: and kill you ofcourse :D Jan 15 00:18:56 ill get you a beer at the next summit :) Jan 15 00:19:14 lcuk: If my country will pass me to it :) Jan 15 00:19:31 lcuk: what do you think bout UI layout then? Jan 15 00:19:47 http://s45.radikal.ru/i109/0901/9d/c13ce1d0ee25.png that one Jan 15 00:20:11 yeah but ive thought it about all of them :P Jan 15 00:20:27 wazd: looks good. No stylus access to an app's menu? Jan 15 00:20:41 where is the app title gonna go Jan 15 00:20:49 lcuk: nowhere - they're useless Jan 15 00:21:07 i might have a dig into the hildon menu thing and see if i can get it to do that dynamic resizing thing Jan 15 00:21:12 wazd: presumably an app's menu would /appear/ in the same place as it does now? (i.e. instead of the apps menu) Jan 15 00:21:53 isnt this gonna force us to remake and adjust hildon because of the shape it expects windows to sit in Jan 15 00:22:01 Jaffa: "Mer" is an app menu button for now) Jan 15 00:22:17 Jaffa: maybe I should mark it same as Maemo one's Jan 15 00:22:29 i liked the ae :) Jan 15 00:22:51 it was generic enough to not look like a logo Jan 15 00:23:05 wazd: This is where the lack of clear nomenclature gets us. When I press the 'menu' key in that screenshot, I get File Manager's menu. The `mer' logo is equivalent to the application-launcher menu (I figure?) Jan 15 00:23:46 lcuk: no, shouldn't do. This is similar to the layout used in Ubuntu Mobile Edition. Jan 15 00:23:58 Jaffa: well I think "task switcher" button is symbolized pretty clear and same as Maemo :) Jan 15 00:24:11 wazd: yup, task switcher's great. Jan 15 00:24:13 alright cool Jan 15 00:24:26 Mer's logo is hildon menu button Jan 15 00:24:41 same as if you'll click title Jan 15 00:25:04 what are we gonna do when rotated? Jan 15 00:25:12 wazd: Ah, OK. And using a Home applet for app launching? Jan 15 00:26:00 Jaffa: Sort off, but I haven't thought bout that deeply Jan 15 00:26:16 thats a minimum of 3 clicks if its on home menu to go from one app to a new one Jan 15 00:26:24 Jaffa: Maybe I'll come up with some more handy idea for quick app access Jan 15 00:27:00 lcuk: well, now it's 2 clicks minimum :) Jan 15 00:27:20 yeah, tis ok anyway was just the idea of needing to go home Jan 15 00:27:27 lcuk: change mer's home key behaviour to go directly to the home screen, rather than pop up the menu - since without the stuff on the left, full screen won't be so needed Jan 15 00:27:50 Jaffa: good point Jan 15 00:28:22 home does task switching Jan 15 00:28:38 long home already minimizes to desktop Jan 15 00:28:40 lcuk: yeah, but you've got the top bar for that now Jan 15 00:28:52 lcuk: I'm suggesting swapping those two behaviours with this hildon-desktop Jan 15 00:29:00 Jaffa: well if you hold "home" you'll actually get home) Jan 15 00:29:03 Anyway, this is what Ubuntu Mobile's Hildon looks like: http://www.linuxplanet.com/graphics/screenshots/1218133058Figure3.png Jan 15 00:29:40 wazd: In Maemo. With your suggested layout, I think that makes less sense (for the quickness of starting apps, as lcuk says) Jan 15 00:30:06 Jaffa: I like the idea of swaping functions Jan 15 00:30:17 Jaffa: quick click sends home Jan 15 00:30:18 wow jaffa that looks really nice :) Jan 15 00:30:33 Jaffa: long click opens switcher Jan 15 00:30:37 quick click should bring up the dynamic task switcher Jan 15 00:31:42 lcuk: don't expect much from Ubuntu, homescreen is the only thing that looks nice in it :D Jan 15 00:32:04 lcuk: other stuff is like worst themes of 770 :) Jan 15 00:32:19 lcuk: Not if you want quicker access to launch apps. Since the top bar will be more permanent (less need for full screen as no wasted sidebar), *and* it's got more space than the 3 active windows in Maemo's sidebar, having home key == home makes launching apps quicker. Jan 15 00:32:24 i see they read your blog as well as microsoft :P Jan 15 00:32:54 wazd: other alternative is to do an Ubuntu: add a home icon, a menu icon and a task nav icon in the space of your current mer & task nav. Jan 15 00:33:08 Then it's a single tap to take you back to your app launcher/home screen. Jan 15 00:33:08 i agree in part jaffa, but havign a title area for an app is important Jan 15 00:33:20 lcuk: liqbase doesn't have one ;-) Jan 15 00:33:35 sure it does Jan 15 00:33:41 every single menu is titled :) Jan 15 00:33:51 What useful stuff has ever been shown in the title area of an app on Maemo? The only use they have IME is when switching between them, which is still maintained in wazd's mockup Jan 15 00:33:54 Jaffa: too much functional icons on the same place :) Jan 15 00:34:04 when im in dynamic screens though i go fullscreen Jan 15 00:34:13 jaffa, the title Jan 15 00:34:25 lcuk: What useful stuff is in *the title*? Jan 15 00:34:42 i.e. of the currently foregrounded app? Jan 15 00:35:21 Titlebar is useless, forget bout it :) Jan 15 00:35:37 It does totaly nothing Jan 15 00:35:39 For example, I've just opened File Manager, I see "File manager - Removable...". But I know it's the File Manager, cos it looks like it. And I know I've got the memory card selected as it's highlighted. Jan 15 00:35:44 sometimes space is important Jan 15 00:35:51 That was the theme of my first blogpost Jan 15 00:36:10 wazd: Aye, and it convinced me you're often right ;-) Jan 15 00:36:21 people read the headlines, sure a useless title is wasted Jan 15 00:36:36 http://tabletui.wordpress.com/2008/01/17/maemo-tray-modification/ Jan 15 00:36:55 * Jaffa beds. Jan 15 00:36:58 lcuk: headlines contain text Jan 15 00:37:17 lcuk: not something like "Web - Nokia Sta..." Jan 15 00:37:29 lcuk: what's the point of that letters?) Jan 15 00:38:28 lcuk: Titles are needed to define info without opened windows. And I have them in task switcher Jan 15 00:38:29 "The tray should be variable length. New applet - more tray. Applet is removed - application name can claim the space." :) ideal compromise Jan 15 00:38:57 you will never make me agree its useless, and i will never try to force it upon you :) Jan 15 00:39:18 lcuk: So tell me whats the point of "Web - Nokia Sta..." Jan 15 00:39:41 lcuk: that compromise works if you have side menu :) Jan 15 00:39:51 people read the headlines, sure a useless title is wasted Jan 15 00:40:29 lcuk: headlines are something like "Madonna divorses with Guy Richie!!111" Jan 15 00:40:37 i meant the useless bit Jan 15 00:40:47 lcuk: Not something like "Madonna div..." Jan 15 00:40:55 its not up to the OS to dictate the format of the titlebars, it cannot guess good from bad (that example is bad) Jan 15 00:41:45 remember, i would prefer a dynamically resizing titlebar which goes from almost nothing to much larger per preference Jan 15 00:42:05 if you click on "madonna div.." it should slide out Jan 15 00:42:26 lcuk: in newspaper?) Jan 15 00:42:27 but it gives a larger easy to hit area for the users finger to get at his app menu Jan 15 00:42:40 heh yeah Jan 15 00:42:48 "mer" button is more than large for a finger) Jan 15 00:42:55 when the app menu itself isnt much different to the other menus the user will not know which to click Jan 15 00:42:57 I've tried) Jan 15 00:43:04 suppose i give you the tablet, you've never used it before Jan 15 00:43:46 lcuk: well, I've read the instruction when I bought n800 :) Jan 15 00:44:16 take it to the pub with you and let your friends play Jan 15 00:44:54 lcuk: well, they already played, but they weren't anywhere outside of the browser :) Jan 15 00:46:00 lcuk: I agree that maybe I should place same sign of menu like maemo has Jan 15 00:46:13 lcuk: for easy location Jan 15 00:46:46 :) Jan 15 00:47:08 lcuk: I also wanted to add some fingerfriendly feature Jan 15 00:47:57 When user taps small icon in the taskswitcher a tip with it's title appears Jan 15 00:48:20 And user can drag between apps if he missed Jan 15 00:48:33 Switch on release Jan 15 00:48:48 something like iPhone keyboard as I remember Jan 15 00:51:39 i know the effect, im just not sure its needed, are we expecting so many tasks it needs tiny icons? Jan 15 00:52:07 the icon + caption could be a regular easy fingerable size and still not need scrolling Jan 15 00:52:22 lcuk: I'm talking bout top switcher Jan 15 00:52:33 that's next to "mer" Jan 15 00:57:40 yeah i see it, still not sure, btw in the ubuntu, what happens when you click on the title area "All" does it drop a nice tree? Jan 15 00:58:15 lcuk: dunno Jan 15 00:58:24 lcuk: I've just seen screenshots Jan 15 00:58:36 i might have to shove it on my x41 Jan 15 00:59:50 though i really want mer on it :) cannot stand ubuntu Jan 15 01:01:28 anyway, gnite wazd :) Jan 15 01:01:57 gnite lcuk) Jan 15 01:02:27 btw I don't see much sense in menu button to be finger friendly, since menu itself isnt :) Jan 15 01:30:26 kudos to the backup/restore devs - damn good job Jan 15 01:31:10 my n810 went through my snow blower and I just got the new one up and running in no time Jan 15 01:33:26 uh Jan 15 01:35:52 ya'll should check images.google.com for the "coco de mer" fruit Jan 15 01:39:09 PMSL Jan 15 01:39:18 Mousey: whoa!! Jan 15 01:39:24 That's hot) Jan 15 01:39:25 how in gods name did you come across that one Jan 15 01:39:33 hehe Jan 15 01:39:48 we *HAVE* to have that as the desktop icon Jan 15 01:39:49 i was looking for that mer wallpaper somebody linked yesterday Jan 15 01:39:56 yah man Jan 15 01:40:04 too bad there's no cool coco program Jan 15 01:40:15 ill fuffin make one Jan 15 01:40:22 That one is pretty nice: http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3066/2788473919_4ab5fd7304_o.jpg Jan 15 01:40:28 =) Jan 15 01:41:04 Damn, thats uber hilarious) Jan 15 01:41:53 have you seen whats top of normal google search for that term Jan 15 01:42:18 yay i contributed to mer! Jan 15 01:42:20 ^_^ Jan 15 01:43:31 Well, that's why I hate French :) Jan 15 01:43:41 They can ruin everything)) Jan 15 01:44:09 lol Jan 15 01:44:51 It's still 1 thing to figure out Jan 15 01:45:08 what was first, woman's ass or this nut :D Jan 15 01:45:30 And what the hell nature was thinking about :) Jan 15 01:47:18 * b-man needs to beta test lates mer image - will be back Jan 15 01:47:39 Now Mer definitely takes first place in "Linux logo with women bodies" chart from Ubuntu :) Jan 15 01:47:44 ^_^ Jan 15 01:48:16 i am so proud! =D Jan 15 01:48:19 you could almost get away with it as the m from mer ;) Jan 15 01:49:08 Mousey: http://tabletui.wordpress.com/2009/01/12/repos-a-la-mer there is the wallpaper, if you still need it somehow) Jan 15 01:49:23 thanks =) Jan 15 01:49:47 aw, doesn't have the logo in the middle Jan 15 01:50:19 lcuk: let's hide it as secret weapon) Jan 15 01:50:22 not to discuss again, but better to consider it plain then blendblit the required text/logo in the right place? Jan 15 01:50:30 wrap it in bacon Jan 15 01:50:37 anyway, im not here now Jan 15 01:50:40 gnite again Jan 15 01:50:46 uh Jan 15 01:50:48 yaya)) Jan 15 01:51:48 That would be a hit if cocoa would be somehow ported to linux)) Jan 15 01:52:51 k, I'm out too, gnite all :) Jan 15 01:59:58 i'm back Jan 15 02:00:15 hi Jan 15 02:00:27 hi Jan 15 02:00:34 welcome back Jan 15 02:01:00 :) Jan 15 02:01:37 so how do i get involved in the maemo community Jan 15 02:02:08 find a project that you like and jump in :D Jan 15 02:02:38 ah alright Jan 15 02:03:18 btw, i tryed out the new mer rescue menu, looks.............. amazing! Jan 15 02:03:36 whats that Jan 15 02:04:10 a rescue menu to boot into/fix mer Jan 15 02:04:46 what is mer Jan 15 02:04:47 it looks taoaly different from the original, it even uses gnome fonting Jan 15 02:05:51 a experimental os that is based on ubuntu jaunty that is designed to run maemo apps Jan 15 02:06:01 "maemo reconstructed" Jan 15 02:06:27 ah interesting Jan 15 02:06:36 screenie? Jan 15 02:07:13 http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_Reconstructed provides most of the information - and possibly screenshots Jan 15 02:07:44 i'm currently the maintainer of the installer :) Jan 15 02:07:57 ah nice Jan 15 02:15:11 http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer_Blueprint#SB1_SDK_Guide provides most of the technical information Jan 15 02:16:16 Why do they always gotten ship prizes to the people who already have them. :( Jan 15 02:16:21 Damn you, thp! :P Jan 15 02:16:43 Anyway: http://public.smi.ethz.ch/files/MaemoOpenmoko/PublicDescriptiveStatistics.html Jan 15 02:23:00 cool Jan 15 02:24:00 * b-man starts to apply yet another update to his ubuntu jaunty guide **** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Jan 15 02:59:57 2009