**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Jan 18 02:59:57 2009 Jan 18 03:21:13 Hello Jan 18 03:29:37 hi Jan 18 03:34:14 Can someone give me a hand? I've been trying to figure out how to move icons within menu on my N810 using OS2008. Jan 18 03:35:44 Anyone? Jan 18 03:39:08 go to settings > control pannel > pannel > orginise Jan 18 03:45:57 Fantastic. Jan 18 03:45:59 Thank you. Jan 18 03:49:28 your welcome :) Jan 18 03:51:10 I have an 8gb card. I want to use it 1. for maemo, 2. for some debian chroot, and 3. for maemo mapper any advice on how to partition it? I have a 1gb card to go with it for a total of 9gb + .5gb internal - I'm on an n800 with an external gps Jan 18 03:54:09 you will have to use sfdisk to partition it, hold on, i'll post an example Jan 18 03:55:35 b-man: I have an example from http://wiki.maemo.org/Partitioning_a_flash_card Jan 18 03:56:10 Is there a way to do a system reload without having to reload the OS? Jan 18 03:56:43 I bought mine used and I'm unsure what is factory and what is the previous owners changes. Jan 18 03:57:05 My unit has odd partitioning or I'm just unfamiliar with how it shows it. Jan 18 03:57:36 yigal: ok, how many partitions are you going to use and how big are thay? Jan 18 03:58:20 b-man: I think this is where I need help, 1. how many partitions would be good Jan 18 03:58:26 ? Jan 18 03:58:43 should I put the chroot on its own chroot? Jan 18 03:58:55 excuse me chroot on its own partition :) Jan 18 03:59:15 2, i'd suggest, 1 for debian and 1 for the other stuff Jan 18 03:59:21 maemo mapper on its own partition, or just do a dumb large partition for everything Jan 18 03:59:29 cool Jan 18 04:00:35 b-man: I'm thinking of just using easy debian unless there's an advantage rolling my own? Jan 18 04:00:35 remember to make the first fat16 and the other linux83 for debian ;) Jan 18 04:00:42 b-man: right Jan 18 04:01:44 b-man: so basically use the advice given http://wiki.maemo.org/Partitioning_a_flash_card but scale up for the size card I'm using Jan 18 04:01:54 ? Jan 18 04:01:58 yes Jan 18 04:02:09 sfdisk -uM for megabytes Jan 18 04:03:09 (makes things a lot more sain) Jan 18 04:03:27 b-man: yes, that does :) Jan 18 04:05:11 b-man: ok time to ssh into it and do it :), I'm stoked Jan 18 04:05:26 also, as an example, you can use ,500,C for a 500mb fat 32 partition and ,500,L for linux83 ;) Jan 18 04:05:55 sweet Jan 18 04:06:36 b-man: I can partition on my laptop correct? Jan 18 04:06:41 s/can/could Jan 18 04:07:39 b-man: or is the idea to do everything on the n8x0 :) Jan 18 04:08:13 you can, but i'm not shurehow (i use my tablet exclusively untill i eventually get my Dell Studio 15) Jan 18 04:08:41 you can do everything on the tablet ;) Jan 18 04:08:52 b-man, if I had a working keyboard for it I would also, until then it's ssh then Jan 18 04:09:02 b-man: I know that is why I have one Jan 18 04:09:14 hehe Jan 18 04:10:06 you can partition it from the terminal, you don't need ssh btw ;) Jan 18 04:10:37 b-man: it's the typing bit, that's all, maybe it would be good for practice, you're probably right Jan 18 04:12:29 (useful if you do a lot of software testing like me) ;) Jan 18 04:13:53 * b-man maintains the ubuntu jaunty for N8x0's project and am the maintainer for the installer for the mer project Jan 18 04:14:58 b-man: I haven't looked at trying jaunty on my n800, is it possible now - should I wait a while? Jan 18 04:15:28 or mer Jan 18 04:15:43 it is possible now (however there are a still a fuew bugs to work out) Jan 18 04:16:20 as in alpha testing, I think I'll wait a bit, but that's awesome Jan 18 04:16:44 hehe :) Jan 18 04:17:15 ah, I see your post on inerternettablettalk Jan 18 04:17:20 thread Jan 18 04:17:24 yup Jan 18 04:17:41 cool, well I'll stick to debian and diablo for now Jan 18 04:18:32 yeah - still in it's early stages of development Jan 18 04:18:57 mer is fairly usable now thought Jan 18 04:19:08 edit: though Jan 18 04:19:15 * b-man needs some sleep, can't stay awake/think straight Jan 18 04:19:27 :) Jan 18 04:19:40 thanks for the help, sleep it's a good thing Jan 18 04:21:31 yeah - but it is only 11:18 here, i think i might have drank too much coffie - caffien has an oppisite effect on me Jan 18 04:23:30 same here, well so to get a maemo partition of 5gb I use, sfdisk -uM /dev/mmcblk1 /dev/mmcblk1p1:1,5000,6 ? Jan 18 04:24:04 same here, well so to get a maemo partition of 5gb I use, sfdisk -uM /dev/mmcblk1 /dev/mmcblk1p1:1,5000,C ? Jan 18 04:24:21 double post? :) Jan 18 04:24:44 no forgot about the prelude, just the s/6/C are changed Jan 18 04:24:58 at the end Jan 18 04:26:16 you shuld use sfdisk -uM /dev/mmcblk1 Jan 18 04:26:22 ,2500,C Jan 18 04:26:24 2500,L Jan 18 04:26:26 ,, Jan 18 04:26:28 ,, Jan 18 04:26:39 re; ,2500,L Jan 18 04:26:44 so no initial start is required Jan 18 04:26:56 or explicit end, cool Jan 18 04:27:31 so I will need both the linux/vfat partitions for maemo Jan 18 04:28:28 yes, one for user space (vfat) and one for the filesystem (ext3 or ext2) Jan 18 04:29:10 I was thinking of using another card altogether for user space ext* will this work? Jan 18 04:30:08 shure Jan 18 04:30:18 so / is vfat and ~ is ext* ? Jan 18 04:30:36 b-man: thanks for all of this info, you can stop anytime you need to Jan 18 04:30:44 of course Jan 18 04:35:10 ok, very good :) Jan 18 05:06:49 yigal, you still here? Jan 18 05:09:52 b-man: yep, I've just started the flashing Jan 18 05:10:46 I realized I could change ext2 -> ext3, and a few other things not in the tutorial so it's taken a while :) Jan 18 05:10:49 ok, btw, the layout would be / is ext3 and ~ is vfat Jan 18 05:11:18 hehe Jan 18 05:11:39 b-man: interesting, makes sense, a linux device would have its kernel on a linux partition, are you more awake now? Jan 18 05:12:15 yes, kinda (i'm laying in my bed but i'm more awake) Jan 18 05:13:20 b-man: the energy flows through you now more than before, :) - didn't go with a custom bootmenu.conf, hopefully if I need to I can reinstall bootmenu by itself? Jan 18 05:14:56 ah, I see not a big deal Jan 18 05:16:00 I have to load ext3, so I have to have a custom bootmenu.conf, owell not a big deal Jan 18 06:10:42 ~mer Jan 18 06:10:51 infobot! :( Jan 18 08:09:54 bye Jan 18 08:29:35 hi guys Jan 18 08:30:06 i was wondering if there is a maemo port of empathy IM Jan 18 08:44:48 bigbrovar: try searching from gronmayer.com/it Jan 18 08:51:28 hi, i've tried to install screen rotation from http://sse2.net/rotate/ but the linkt to http://outpo.st/rotate/osso-software-version-rx44-unlocked_1%3a5.2008.43-7_all.deb is not working. seems like a typo, does anybody know the correct link? Jan 18 08:51:56 http://outpo.st/rotate/ Jan 18 08:52:18 yes, that's how you get there Jan 18 08:52:19 Hrm, he removed the "auto install" Jan 18 08:52:30 Sorry, there used to be a link to an install file Jan 18 08:53:36 is this patch different from the one the slide rotate program installs? Jan 18 09:00:13 mrweasel: no, they use same patch i think Jan 18 09:00:40 i have had both installed at the same time Jan 18 09:01:35 hm sadly the slide rotate patch stops working for me after some time.. especially after being connected to a network (sounds strange, i know) Jan 18 09:02:10 trying the other thing now.. has been working for at least 5 minutes now.... Jan 18 09:02:31 If it works before being connected then advanced-backlight should be able to let you rotate Jan 18 09:02:43 yes should Jan 18 09:02:45 But that depends on if rotation is actually installed properly Jan 18 09:02:54 it works before with advanced backlight Jan 18 09:03:20 but then after some undefined time it stops and clicking in advanced backlight simply does nothing but rotating the d-pad Jan 18 09:05:38 Stskeeps, ping Jan 18 09:07:13 zzzzz Jan 18 09:07:28 heh :/ Jan 18 09:07:54 Just need you to check something, does this look correct: http://pastebin.com/d6125da2e Jan 18 09:08:51 looks correct yea Jan 18 09:09:10 Cool, now I need to figure out a sane way of applying the fakeroot patch. Jan 18 09:10:12 fakeroot patch? Jan 18 09:10:30 From the readme: "Apply the fakeroot patch to fix the path separator bug (scratchbox uses ',' Jan 18 09:10:31 as path separator to the standard qemu versions, the qemu-arm-eabi only Jan 18 09:10:31 accepts ':', as any normal person would)" Jan 18 09:10:58 I guess I could echo the patch as part of the postinst Jan 18 09:11:15 ah Jan 18 09:11:24 (but then again, it's probably easier bundling it in the package) Jan 18 09:11:34 yeah maybe Jan 18 09:12:12 saw http://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/mer-virtualbox2.png Jan 18 09:12:14 ? Jan 18 09:12:27 Now I have :) Jan 18 09:12:31 Looks good :) Jan 18 09:13:10 is nice to experiment on Jan 18 09:13:56 StsN800: i'm gonna follow your great idea to use Mer inside virtualbox :P Jan 18 09:14:07 hehe Jan 18 09:14:53 i can mess with marquee-plugins without worrying about reinstall (it's possible to do state-snapshots in virtualbox? Jan 18 09:14:59 Meiz_n810, use a livecd without ui, more productive Jan 18 09:15:06 possibly Jan 18 09:16:29 * Meizirkki is trying to get splashscreen for x86 Jan 18 09:17:51 StsN800, Gonna use "patch --forward --quiet -p1 /scratchbox/tools/bin/fakeroot-tcp < /scratchbox/tools/bin/fakeroot.patch" for the fakeroot patch. Sounds dodgy? Jan 18 09:19:00 anything involving scratchbox is dodgy Jan 18 09:19:10 heh Jan 18 09:19:44 I'll leave testing of the package to someone else, I've already install qemu-arm-eabi manually :P Jan 18 09:19:56 s/install/installed/ Jan 18 09:22:04 hehe Jan 18 09:26:32 im gonna doze off for 30 mins or so Jan 18 09:27:08 Morning Jan 18 09:42:12 morning Jaffa Jan 18 09:51:38 * Jaffa is having media PC hangs (hopefully not h/w related). If it is h/w related, pondering replacing with a NAS in the loft and a BeagleBoard for playback Jan 18 10:04:51 OMAP3 graphics demo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evJ0Vr8LjYk Treed3D 2.0 - Alternative Party 2008 invitation Jan 18 10:05:04 nice music Jan 18 10:13:42 Hello guys. Jan 18 10:23:31 sorry for the spam Jan 18 10:25:23 moo all Jan 18 10:25:41 hi Jan 18 10:38:36 hi Jan 18 10:39:00 anybody uses esbox together with eclipse 3.4 aka ganymede? Jan 18 10:39:15 I don't Jan 18 10:39:16 with the latest feature build 1.4.1 Jan 18 10:39:24 i got a lot of errors Jan 18 10:39:59 the newer 2.x versions are only available as complete integration builds, not just as plugins Jan 18 10:40:54 StsN800, if around, http://trac.tspre.org/qwerty12/qemu-eabi-cputransp-sbox_svn5391_i386.deb Jan 18 10:46:47 mornin maemo ppl Jan 18 10:46:56 morning lcuk Jan 18 10:47:06 morning to you lcuk Jan 18 10:47:26 ehlo, lcuk, qwerty Jan 18 10:47:41 hi RST38h Jan 18 10:48:18 isn't "ehlo" in the mail protocol? the response sent by the mail server? Jan 18 10:48:55 question about mer that came up whilst dozing off - do we know the extent of modifications people are gonna require to port chinook/diablo apps to it? Jan 18 10:49:27 Anidel, no, its the greeting sent by the client to indicate it wants advanced smtp Jan 18 10:49:30 balls Jan 18 10:49:34 Anidel, no, its the greeting sent by the client to indicate it wants advanced smtp Jan 18 10:49:47 oh yeah, right... Jan 18 10:50:20 the server should reply to RST38h specifically with "go away, we don't want your type round here" :P Jan 18 10:50:29 ahah Jan 18 10:52:28 I am connecting to IRC by sshing to my remote machine and using ircii. I am running a command like: ssh irc -d -c #maemo .. but you guys, by any chanche, know how to tell it I'm using a regular xterm terminal? I tried prepending "export TERM=xterm;" to the ssh command, but it worked half way Jan 18 10:53:00 I suppose there should be an ssh parameter... hopefully Jan 18 11:01:24 lcuk: not that many so far.. it is gcc4 so people are getting through that process as well with fremantle Jan 18 11:01:35 found the way Jan 18 11:02:09 Stskeeps, thought as much :) thats good to know. can i install gcc4 on my tablet now?> Jan 18 11:02:20 lcuk: yes, anytime, with mer :P Jan 18 11:02:27 heh you know what i mean Jan 18 11:02:42 minimal disruption at this point Jan 18 11:02:50 * johnx_ returns Jan 18 11:02:55 stupid me, ssh tunnels. Jan 18 11:03:09 morning jott Jan 18 11:03:10 er Jan 18 11:03:13 johnx Jan 18 11:03:20 mornin' Stskeeps Jan 18 11:03:21 johnx_, from sleep, or time travelling? Jan 18 11:03:36 from work O_o Jan 18 11:03:40 johnx_: http://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/mer-virtualbox.png , http://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/mer-virtualbox2.png Jan 18 11:03:41 and too little sleep Jan 18 11:04:08 very, very slick. is that 800x600? Jan 18 11:04:12 think so Jan 18 11:04:23 i changed theme to liberty from titan btw Jan 18 11:04:29 and first-boot-wizard is on ~mer-committers now Jan 18 11:04:53 great, if I touch it I'll push to mer-committers Jan 18 11:04:58 i give up with splash screen :( Jan 18 11:05:18 good - the tablets aren't waterproofed yet Jan 18 11:05:19 Meizirkki: hehe, it didnt look 100% trivial either Jan 18 11:06:11 Stskeeps, out of the box does mer include gcc and buildessentials? Jan 18 11:06:15 make says: No rule to make target 'uplash-theme-mer.c.o' needed by 'usplash-theme-mer.so' :( Jan 18 11:07:10 lcuk: apt-get install build-essential Jan 18 11:07:16 and there it is Jan 18 11:07:42 Stskeeps, http://trac.tspre.org/qwerty12/qemu-eabi-cputransp-sbox_svn5391_i386.deb Jan 18 11:08:01 are most of the -dev libs available? Jan 18 11:08:02 . Jan 18 11:08:05 lcuk: all of them Jan 18 11:08:20 * lcuk smiles Jan 18 11:08:43 qwerty12: just update as "needs testing" and point to the deb, and we'll get to it Jan 18 11:08:52 Stskeeps, k Jan 18 11:09:10 very technical q: whats the possibility of pushing the cpu beyond 400? Jan 18 11:09:22 no clue Jan 18 11:09:32 hence not specifically at you sts ;) Jan 18 11:09:42 mm Jan 18 11:09:56 * Stskeeps is trying to get his breakfast down and have his morning coffee Jan 18 11:10:03 i have to wait for coffee Jan 18 11:10:05 Probably not gonna happen, I hear the tablet can require a cold flash if you have even the dsp/cpu running at 200/400 Jan 18 11:11:13 qwerty12: what did you change in nit-kernel-compat btw? Jan 18 11:11:25 ok, reasonable. alternatives - can we reduce the subset of daemons and services running to optimize specific tasks - would it make a difference (like in old windows days you would close down everything to run games better) Jan 18 11:11:36 Stskeeps, nothing much, I just made it generate the md5sum file for it Jan 18 11:12:48 qwerty12: ah, so it was broken before? then i don't have it in 0.6 jffs :P Jan 18 11:13:03 Stskeeps, the script is the same :D Jan 18 11:13:26 qwerty12: yeah, and i just noticed the nit-kernel-compat wasnt in the list of packages to install :P Jan 18 11:13:34 nooooooo Jan 18 11:14:15 or maybe, sec Jan 18 11:14:51 ah, it is there Jan 18 11:15:01 *sigh* :P Jan 18 11:15:01 so what do you mean generate md5sum? Jan 18 11:15:25 Setting up nit-kernel-compat (0.2) ... Jan 18 11:15:47 I forgot to add dh_md5sums so you wouldn't have a debian/md5sums file Jan 18 11:15:54 For a system file, I think it helps :) Jan 18 11:15:56 ah Jan 18 11:16:01 fair enough Jan 18 11:20:34 * Stskeeps gets at testing the new image Jan 18 11:21:16 * qwerty12 bitchslaps busybox's sleep for not supporting decimal numbers Jan 18 11:22:31 mm, fair notice btw, - there's an openssh-server installed on the image, but it does not (as i first hoped) make the keys upon first boot Jan 18 11:23:05 so everyone with same image has same ssh server keys, but it is a bitch getting into the images without usb cable or a ssh :P Jan 18 11:23:37 * qwerty12 prepares to launch ssh attack when tablets with mer connect to net Jan 18 11:23:41 hehe Jan 18 11:24:12 * qwerty12 cannae wait for the images though :) Jan 18 11:24:24 Stskeeps, I can do something about that in first-boot-wizard I bet Jan 18 11:24:36 johnx_: yes, and setting root password so you can actually ssh in :P Jan 18 11:24:43 hmm, maybe even ask to copy keys from rootfs if they exist Jan 18 11:24:44 or user password, one of these Jan 18 11:25:05 johnx_: nah, we might be running from rootfs ourselves Jan 18 11:25:28 hence 'if they exist' :) Jan 18 11:25:32 hehe Jan 18 11:26:21 makes testing easier since if it pulls the same DHCP address ssh'ing to it from a desktop will fail until the user edits known hosts Jan 18 11:28:33 and then i'll try b-mans installer today and see if it breaks my other SD card ;) Jan 18 11:28:44 breaks or formats? Jan 18 11:28:50 formats Jan 18 11:29:03 though breaks would have been pretty awesome :) Jan 18 11:29:29 i still maintain GA's idea of a watchdog that shows a cracked LCD on the LCD would do the trick Jan 18 11:30:07 :D Jan 18 11:31:31 * Stskeeps is kinda tired of launchpad Jan 18 11:31:38 does mer installer work directly from within the original working OS? my n800 is stuck in os2007 cos it wont flash. Jan 18 11:31:54 Stskeeps, what's up with it now? Jan 18 11:32:12 johnx_: slow, occasionally breaks the most import tool, the viewing the SCM Jan 18 11:32:13 hi there disco_stu Jan 18 11:32:15 important Jan 18 11:32:29 lcuk: yes, it does - it needs the deblet bootmenu however Jan 18 11:32:50 the 800 connects fine to the internet Jan 18 11:33:03 johnx_: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mer-committers/m-r/hildon-desktop-env/revision/17 <- changed this wallpaper handling Jan 18 11:33:06 it just wont accept a flashing Jan 18 11:33:10 as liberty wasnt acting as expected Jan 18 11:33:52 lcuk: weird it won't accept flashing Jan 18 11:34:25 yeah i tried all combinations, when booted to the OS it works and I can copy files between my desktop and 800 Jan 18 11:34:56 but when i press and hold from boot it just sits with usb icon on the tablet and the flasher just doesnt see it Jan 18 11:35:09 In linux or windows? Jan 18 11:35:13 tried both Jan 18 11:35:18 bollox Jan 18 11:35:25 windows on the main desktop, linux on the x41 Jan 18 11:35:40 so if we have 0xffff compiled for arm can we have one n8x0 flash another? Jan 18 11:35:54 lcuk: what about haxoring os08 rootfs in :P (sorry, i really have no idea what i am talking about :) ) Jan 18 11:36:01 that involves complex cabling Jan 18 11:36:21 Meiz_n810, i welcome all hand waving suggestions Jan 18 11:36:25 Meiz_n810, you could probably do that with the chinook one... Jan 18 11:36:51 is it the rootfs that controls the usb update? Jan 18 11:36:56 nope, nolo Jan 18 11:37:10 can i update that from inside the device itself? Jan 18 11:37:15 lcuk, don't think this is a flasher problem but have you tried "If you are running a newer kernel and you get "Suitable USB device not found, waiting" but nothing happens when you switch on the 770 as instructed above, try to patch the flasher: perl -pi -e 's-/proc/bus/usb-/dev/bus/usb\000-;' -i.backup $FLASHER, where $FLASHER is the location of your flasher 2.0 linux binary. This applies also for flasher-3.0. " Jan 18 11:37:19 incase its that that is corrupt Jan 18 11:37:27 lcuk, *very* risky Jan 18 11:37:32 yeah i tried that Jan 18 11:37:45 lcuk: what error do you get btw? Jan 18 11:37:49 i was doing a whole lot of usb snooping on the x41 and it wasnt even detected Jan 18 11:37:53 lcuk, install mer, boot into it, kick os08 rooft into flash chroot to install latest kernel... etc :P Jan 18 11:38:01 Stskeeps, no device detected Jan 18 11:38:19 but when the OS was installed it detected ok Jan 18 11:38:28 os was booted up to desktop ^ Jan 18 11:38:46 There was another guy having similar problems with n800, he called nokia and they said it cannot be upgraded anymore Jan 18 11:38:55 on itT Jan 18 11:38:59 lcuk: the way i do it is turn off device completely, connect usb to computer, then start flasher, and then insert charger Jan 18 11:39:07 which never seems to fail for me :P Jan 18 11:39:10 its just frustrating cos i wanna test forward camera (the main reason why its here) Jan 18 11:39:24 also, I have seen hubs and cables that are honestly borderline Jan 18 11:40:05 Stskeeps, no charger involved, 100% full battery, doing as you say (including a battery pop to ensure its switched off completely first) and holding correct button gets me the USB icon holding on screen. Jan 18 11:40:15 it is simply not detected at all Jan 18 11:40:33 and as soon as i unplug the USB cable itself the usb icon goes away and it boots to os Jan 18 11:40:47 and when i replug the cable its detected and working as a disk Jan 18 11:40:48 lcuk: odd Jan 18 11:41:09 anything odd in dmesg? Jan 18 11:41:34 lcuk, if worst comes to worst, how good are your soldering skills? :-) Jan 18 11:41:35 nothing in the mdesg of the laptop Jan 18 11:41:54 lcuk: oh, i meant tablet Jan 18 11:42:24 i used to work on the diagnostics and repair at a factory creating coin mechs for slot machines :) i can unsolder and resit smt :) Jan 18 11:42:53 Stskeeps, didnt think i would have dmesg cos isnt it a different os part? Jan 18 11:42:58 i will check though, gimme a mo Jan 18 11:43:09 lcuk, You may have to resort to the N800 equivalent of http://www.bu3sch.de/n810.php :/ Jan 18 11:43:41 http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25869 Jan 18 11:43:54 qwerty12: the idea of meiz's to flash from within mer isn't completely silly either Jan 18 11:43:55 nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo if i have to resort to that ill just get myself a beagle and shove it inside the shell of the 800 ;) Jan 18 11:44:15 Stskeeps, you'll end up with an incomplete system Jan 18 11:44:18 (quite a good weekend project though) Jan 18 11:44:24 qwerty12: cos of nolo not being updated, or? Jan 18 11:44:24 Stskeeps: saw the android "bootloader" :P http://kitenet.net/~joey/blog/entry/investigation_of_an_inelegant_installer/ Jan 18 11:45:05 Stskeeps, yes and probably a little more Jan 18 11:45:07 havent had my big tablet on in a couple of weeks :) Jan 18 11:45:30 suihkulokki: no surprises.. i'm still not going to shell out 300$ for a developer license :P Jan 18 11:45:54 lcuk: doesn't look promising... "Thanks for the advice but the Nokia tech said I could try whatever I would like but there will never be a chance to get mine to flash to a newer system than whats on it. " Jan 18 11:45:56 Stskeeps, is that ontop of the hardware? Jan 18 11:46:05 lcuk: which? Jan 18 11:46:11 the dev license Jan 18 11:46:28 480x320 is probably a little slim for maemo... Jan 18 11:46:57 lcuk: 25$ android market site fee, and then 399$ for device that is unlocked Jan 18 11:47:08 and you can only get one device per developer account Jan 18 11:47:27 johnx_: mer on freerunner could be interesting though Jan 18 11:47:39 johnx_: i could try how Mer looks like on 480x320 :P Jan 18 11:47:55 lxrandr is a nice tool :) Jan 18 11:47:57 Meiz_n810, yeah thats my prob gonna bump it so its in my notes :) Jan 18 11:48:14 * Stskeeps tries untarring his mer image again Jan 18 11:48:22 think the sd card is dying Jan 18 11:48:51 I had similar problem once Jan 18 11:48:52 you know what load applet really needs? I/O measurement Jan 18 11:49:39 * qwerty12 votes for killing of root processes Jan 18 11:49:45 that too Jan 18 11:49:47 Stskeeps: i once accidentally partitioned my mmc when it was mounted. After rebooting everything was gone... Jan 18 11:49:59 hehe Jan 18 11:50:01 Although, I wonder if you can setuid() a applet? Jan 18 11:50:25 qwerty12: i think "sudo kill" is a better thing Jan 18 11:50:25 :P Jan 18 11:50:42 Stskeeps, yeah, I guess *reluctant* :P Jan 18 11:51:12 Meiz_n810, ouch Jan 18 11:52:16 hi, how do i update my apt cache in scratchbox? fakeroot apt-get update? is this correct? Jan 18 11:52:17 ▲ Jan 18 11:52:17 ▲ ▲ Jan 18 11:52:29 stv0, that should work Jan 18 11:52:44 going mountain climbing qwerty? Jan 18 11:52:50 Temporary failure resolving 'repository.maemo.org' Jan 18 11:53:07 lcuk, hmm, that's an idea... :P Jan 18 11:54:20 lcuk, re flashing from the device, it may be possible but then again if it bricks, you'd need to make a serial cable anyway Jan 18 11:55:02 mmm Jan 18 11:55:19 wget and ping work out in scratchbox Jan 18 11:55:38 svu: resolv.conf? Jan 18 11:55:53 suihkulokki, so in terms of hackiness, how do we fare compared to the debian/g1 people? :) Jan 18 11:56:01 nameserver 127.0.0.1 Jan 18 11:56:55 What's the output of "which apt-get" ? Jan 18 11:57:09 /usr/bin/apt-get Jan 18 11:57:24 devkit isn't set up properly then, mine is /scratchbox/devkits/debian-etch/bin/apt-get Jan 18 11:57:35 s/devkit/target/ Jan 18 11:57:37 ah ok, my fault Jan 18 11:57:50 thanks Jan 18 11:58:31 root@192.168.98.3's password: Jan 18 11:58:31 Linux mer-tablet 2.6.21-omap1 #2 Tue Sep 2 10:13:06 EEST 2008 armv6l Jan 18 11:58:32 woo Jan 18 11:59:51 * GeneralAntilles yawns loudly. Jan 18 12:00:00 Stskeeps, did you see the TI guy you need to hook on -developers? Jan 18 12:00:01 hey GeneralAntilles Jan 18 12:00:14 * lcuk shoves an ardvark in GeneralAntilles's mouth Jan 18 12:00:20 Stskeeps, where's the link for the latest? Jan 18 12:00:24 * GeneralAntilles chews quietly. Jan 18 12:00:47 You know, every time we add a new product to Bugzilla the first thing that happens is somebody files a blocker. Jan 18 12:00:59 Then I spazz out when I see the bold red in the recent changes list. <_< Jan 18 12:01:18 "What? Maemo doesn't ship gnome. INVALID!!!" Jan 18 12:01:28 blocker: Mer is not yet on any device capable of running it. Jan 18 12:01:35 johnx_: putting it up now Jan 18 12:01:58 GeneralAntilles: valid bug though, we're missing a transitional package for libosso-gnomevfs2-extra Jan 18 12:02:01 Stskeeps, :D. I'll install and bash out some changes to first-boot-wizard Jan 18 12:02:02 :P Jan 18 12:02:30 Stskeeps, yeah, valid for _Mer_. :P Jan 18 12:02:36 It was the same when we added Canola. Jan 18 12:02:40 hehe Jan 18 12:02:54 wasn't advanced backlight in it too once? Jan 18 12:03:31 It is, we never got a blocker, though. Jan 18 12:04:06 you'll probably kill me if i submit the bug "backlight control doesn't work on x86" Jan 18 12:04:18 hehehehe Jan 18 12:04:31 does rotation Jan 18 12:04:48 if x server does xrandr, i presume so Jan 18 12:04:51 on my x41 it needs to be upsidedown Jan 18 12:04:56 Stskeeps, how about following up to that bug with a binary patch to replace backlight applet with advanced-backlight? :D Jan 18 12:05:03 GeneralAntilles: saw http://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/mer-virtualbox2.png ? Jan 18 12:05:18 (yes, im spamming that url around, bit proud its even possible) Jan 18 12:05:46 heh. I didn't even notice nm-applet working nicely in it the first time :) Jan 18 12:05:55 really, though. congrats :) Jan 18 12:06:04 it's darn simple to set up really Jan 18 12:06:31 morning Jan 18 12:06:34 morning Jan 18 12:06:43 hi lardman Jan 18 12:06:46 morning, has your problem been solved Jan 18 12:06:53 hey chaps Jan 18 12:07:08 my problem? Hangover - yeah paracetamol are doing their thing ;) Jan 18 12:07:15 * lcuk thinks he was drooling on his keyboard, error: too much wine Jan 18 12:08:02 note to self, do listen to the nurse when she says that typhoid vaccine + alcohol don't mix Jan 18 12:08:13 eep Jan 18 12:08:44 !! Jan 18 12:09:06 depends on the calibre of the nurse though Jan 18 12:09:41 ie, nubile nurse who you dont listen to because you are looking in her eyes, or experienced matron who mothered you Jan 18 12:10:19 when you have recovered have a look here anyway, https://omapzoom.org/gf/project/omapzoom/wiki/ https://omapzoom.org/gf/project/omapbridge/wiki/ Jan 18 12:10:29 its omap3 dsp and optimization projects Jan 18 12:10:53 working with poky linux and stuff, might be of interest Jan 18 12:11:29 qwerty12_N800: http://trac.tspre.org/qwerty12/zImage_inittablet.tar.bz2 was latest? Jan 18 12:12:21 lol @ lcuk :) Jan 18 12:12:36 yes, thanks I've seen those Jan 18 12:13:14 I was hoping to have started doing some omap3 stuff by now, but the Pandora has obviously slipped back from the end of Nov delivery I was looking at :( Jan 18 12:13:19 Stskeeps, purty. Jan 18 12:13:28 lardman, Beagle. :P Jan 18 12:13:45 lardman, one of these would work for me :D https://omapzoom.org/fckeditor/editor/filemanager/img.php?file=26 Jan 18 12:13:54 GeneralAntilles: yeah, Pandora wasn't going to be much dearer and has a case, etc. Jan 18 12:14:03 though now I see my thinking was flawed Jan 18 12:14:05 though thats a phone formfactor Jan 18 12:14:17 +1 lardman, the case is important Jan 18 12:14:19 I'm starting to get plans for a beagle, but will wait for rev c1 Jan 18 12:14:48 qwerty12_N800: btw, zImage is about as compressed as can be Jan 18 12:14:53 im watching beagle people and seeing lots of hits from xv running Jan 18 12:14:54 bz2ing it too doesnt help much Jan 18 12:15:07 I'll just hold my horses for the Pandora (or just go straight to the n900 assuming the Pandora keeps being delayed) Jan 18 12:15:20 * lardman just bought a wiimote Jan 18 12:15:26 first one? Jan 18 12:15:31 or have you got a wii as wlel Jan 18 12:15:39 no, just the remote Jan 18 12:15:46 lcuk, of course it has xv O_o Jan 18 12:16:06 johnx seeing things about optimizing it and certain exotic options not working Jan 18 12:16:25 well, that should also be expected :) Jan 18 12:16:27 mostly relating to mplayer but obviously its parallel tracks with me Jan 18 12:17:13 it's sooo nice to have a lot of linux people really targetting one platform for a while Jan 18 12:17:24 lardman, we are all behind on our schedules, i wanted a nice widget by now, but had to change direction over xmas Jan 18 12:17:26 s/platform/SoC/ Jan 18 12:17:49 lcuk: well maemo-barcode (to be renamed) is almost running now, so I'm not too far behind Jan 18 12:18:00 good, theres an entry point waiting :P Jan 18 12:18:33 void dobarcodescan(){ /* put code here */ } :D Jan 18 12:18:39 painful learning GTK+/SQLite stuff on an hour a day or so Jan 18 12:19:41 yeah agreed, like with most stuff i digest it to learn what i need - ie i wrote a little brain class which interfaced with sqlite to learn how to create/open/maketalbes/read/write etc Jan 18 12:19:55 tables Jan 18 12:20:12 I decided to sit down and write the app, then get it running - otherwise I would have lost the will to code it Jan 18 12:20:33 have been chasing segfaults for 2 days :) Jan 18 12:20:59 ouchy, i build from little stable blocks, my creations dont come together until the pieces are all stable Jan 18 12:21:47 I'd prefer that, but the SQLite and GUI stuff are all linked in, so decided to write it and get it down and then debug Jan 18 12:22:03 s/linked in/linked together Jan 18 12:22:46 heh, don't we get shot for putting the database logic in the with ui :P Jan 18 12:22:54 * lcuk does it in vb quite often Jan 18 12:23:01 model, view! Jan 18 12:23:03 :) Jan 18 12:23:17 prototype, bind Jan 18 12:23:29 perhaps, I'm sure it'll get ripped apart later on, but as a proof of concept Jan 18 12:23:45 heh ive spent the last year in a proof of concept Jan 18 12:24:03 right, trying b-man's installer Jan 18 12:24:04 theres just so much stuff in linux to learn! my mind has literally come alive Jan 18 12:24:05 cross fingers Jan 18 12:24:57 * lardman wonders about printing 2 pages of course notes to one page of A4 to save photocopying Jan 18 12:25:26 * RST38h just changed Symbian code to dual bpp16/bpp32 support Jan 18 12:25:43 would be surprising if it works the first time Jan 18 12:25:50 when the new version of liqbook comes out it will have the formats broken up from the ui, i will be including a couple of different things to read stuff :) Jan 18 12:26:28 I was using liqbase yesterday (sat in the pub with new wiimote, trying to get it to work with n810) Jan 18 12:26:35 worked very nicely Jan 18 12:26:49 Was trying to read some .txt files Jan 18 12:26:59 that's something about you english people.. "sat in the pub" and then some completely unrelated activity to drinking ;) Jan 18 12:27:03 i dont like the fileselect i made though :$ Jan 18 12:27:44 Stskeeps: well pubs are warm and dry ;) Jan 18 12:27:52 * lcuk promises the next one will be better Jan 18 12:27:57 Stskeeps: where better to sit and hack while the missus is reading the paper Jan 18 12:28:07 is andrew zhilin over here? Jan 18 12:28:13 opengeekv2: wazd Jan 18 12:28:23 opengeekv2: don't think he's in right now, but usually Jan 18 12:28:38 opengeekv2, http://tabletui.wordpress.com/ Jan 18 12:28:47 then's iv'e just readen its bolg Jan 18 12:28:51 .. Jan 18 12:29:00 hes got comments and possibly a mamil as well Jan 18 12:29:02 mail Jan 18 12:29:23 * lcuk doesnt like the bounce on this keyboard Jan 18 12:29:25 opengeekv2: so what brings you here? :) Jan 18 12:29:30 i thoght that direct talking wold be better Jan 18 12:29:39 oh i'm very interested in mer Jan 18 12:29:42 Stskeeps, yes Jan 18 12:29:49 opengeekv2, are you a microsoft lawyer :D Jan 18 12:29:52 and the UI desings of andrew Jan 18 12:29:58 nooo please Jan 18 12:30:03 heh Jan 18 12:30:05 opengeekv2: ah, then it's me you want to talk to (and some others) :) what about it? Jan 18 12:30:10 im a very yong IT student Jan 18 12:30:32 in spain Jan 18 12:30:42 and i han an n800 Jan 18 12:30:54 hehe, old computer science student here, finishing my masters degree in september Jan 18 12:31:05 ohh! Jan 18 12:31:32 if you're interested in mer, http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer_Blueprint is probably the best thing to read through to get an understanding of what we're doing with it Jan 18 12:31:32 i only want to give my opinion abot the desig posted today Jan 18 12:31:35 ah :) Jan 18 12:32:00 but i don't know if i can help somehow Jan 18 12:32:02 then you can probably use comments on the blog, so he has them archived Jan 18 12:32:19 well if you study IT we can always need hands :P Jan 18 12:32:41 opengeekv2, if you wanna talk to him he normally comes on a bit later Jan 18 12:32:42 there he is Jan 18 12:32:42 ahhh Jan 18 12:32:58 mornin wazd Jan 18 12:33:03 wazd: opengeekv2 is looking for you, - we checked he's not a lawyer from microsoft Jan 18 12:33:04 yes but i warn you that my coding skills are awful Jan 18 12:33:06 everyone has had very good timing lately :) Jan 18 12:33:29 opengeekv2, there's plenty to do for people of all levels Jan 18 12:33:58 oh and what tasks do you have for me? Jan 18 12:34:17 opengeekv2: well, you can maybe start out by listing skills/hobbies you actually do have Jan 18 12:34:29 opengeekv2, you could start by creating a simple quick little opengl driver Jan 18 12:34:31 then i'm sure we can point you in the right direction Jan 18 12:34:31 and stuff you're interested in working on Jan 18 12:34:49 it cold be interesting but? Jan 18 12:35:06 do you think coding an opengel dirner is easy? Jan 18 12:35:10 opengeekv2, im pulling your leg, what do you use your n800 for, how would you like to use it in the future? Jan 18 12:35:56 ah i tink that it needs a PIM Jan 18 12:36:01 a good pim Jan 18 12:36:21 remind me to check how osmo looks on mer Jan 18 12:36:36 ok Jan 18 12:36:41 when? Jan 18 12:36:43 yes, agreedhttp://wiki.maemo.org/Task:PIM Jan 18 12:36:46 http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:PIM Jan 18 12:36:54 thanks Jan 18 12:37:08 maybe brush up pimlico's stuff? Jan 18 12:37:15 opengeekv2, have a read of that wiki page, and see if you can see anything we have missed :) Jan 18 12:37:17 hello everybody :) Jan 18 12:37:23 hey wazd Jan 18 12:37:27 and hey all btw :) Jan 18 12:37:27 hi wazd Jan 18 12:37:44 * lardman grins maniacly realising why his fde code wasn't working Jan 18 12:37:53 opengeekv2: hehe, was a reminder to myself :) basically, we need all sorts of work done on mer: artwork, themes, icons, debian packages, testers, people trying to figure out how to do stuff, UI designers, etc Jan 18 12:38:24 i like UI desing Jan 18 12:38:56 criticizing wazd desing is my speciality XD Jan 18 12:39:53 oooh, a ui design face-off :D come up with some ideas yourself Jan 18 12:40:17 guards! Jan 18 12:40:18 :P Jan 18 12:40:28 constructive criticizm is good Jan 18 12:40:29 oh in my opinion we wave to introduce traker into de menu Jan 18 12:40:53 agreed, thats the single search filter Jan 18 12:41:12 search bar? doesn't it fit better in a home screen applet Jan 18 12:41:26 so when i type "liq" it lists all the files keyed up with liq - whether they are apps or docs Jan 18 12:41:35 no Stskeeps, this is lower level Jan 18 12:41:44 lcuk: oh Jan 18 12:41:45 global search Jan 18 12:41:48 yees Jan 18 12:41:54 lcuk: that reminds me something :D Jan 18 12:42:05 deskbar applet in gnome Jan 18 12:42:15 the pre has it, ive seen it described in other places Jan 18 12:42:30 Stskeeps: osmo on Mer x86 http://picasaweb.google.com/meizirkki/MerX86#5292612962848400802 Jan 18 12:42:34 but in a menu on the sidebar Jan 18 12:42:37 opengeekv2: well, even I wrote bout it in new year series Jan 18 12:42:45 lcuk: yep, Pre has some nice global search Jan 18 12:42:48 opengeekv2: #1 Jan 18 12:42:52 Meizirkki: ineresting Jan 18 12:42:53 yeah it does Jan 18 12:42:54 bit like the palmos had for ages i guess Jan 18 12:42:56 Stskeeps, how does global search not make it fit better in an applet? Jan 18 12:43:12 GeneralAntilles: nm :) think i'll let the knowledged people bicker about it instead Jan 18 12:43:14 the UI might do, but the core tracker app has to be embedded in Jan 18 12:43:19 I think it would be better served as an applet, personally. Jan 18 12:43:26 Stskeeps, sorry, I meant to tab-complete lcuk. Jan 18 12:43:33 lcuk, how does global search not make it fit better in an applet? . . . Jan 18 12:43:43 Stskeeps, I agree with you. ;) Jan 18 12:44:05 First of all you should get "tab" to the keyboard I suppose :) Jan 18 12:44:08 tracker == the core system component which runs all the time, the desktop UI can be switched off Jan 18 12:44:17 i think people use apletts to have information ever visible instantly and withot havin to touch anithing Jan 18 12:44:22 lcuk, so can the application menu, your point? Jan 18 12:44:26 wazd: we have :) Jan 18 12:44:35 Meizirkki: oh) Jan 18 12:44:42 the one thing about tracker/quicksearch is it quickly becomes pointless if it takes more than a second or two to start using Jan 18 12:44:43 wazd: ESC acts as a TAB too :P Jan 18 12:45:00 Tracker is just the indexing and search API Jan 18 12:45:04 It's not an "app" per-se. Jan 18 12:45:08 Meizirkki, that will hopefully go away Jan 18 12:45:19 Meizirkki: oh, standard maemo kb has tab. omg I'm blind :) Jan 18 12:45:32 wasd: in mer Jan 18 12:45:37 no, its a global service. you can make whatever ui is required to sit ontop Jan 18 12:45:52 http://tabletui.wordpress.com/2008/12/22/new-year-countdown-series-1/ Jan 18 12:45:52 GeneralAntilles, if you're telling me, I know. s_tracker/_tracker based _ Jan 18 12:46:01 that's what I want Jan 18 12:46:22 johnx_, I was telling lcuk, but I may just be confusing things. Jan 18 12:46:28 * GeneralAntilles goes and stands over by Stskeeps. Jan 18 12:46:36 sorry wawz i forgott it Jan 18 12:46:40 * lcuk hands out bacon butties Jan 18 12:46:49 * johnx_ thinks the answer is a key combo Jan 18 12:47:03 fn+space or ctrl+space seems to work well IME Jan 18 12:47:13 Not on an N800. Jan 18 12:47:16 * wazd tells nokia widget contest: screw you guys, I'm going home Jan 18 12:47:19 i think short menu key should step slightly back from the app and open search box as well as core menu Jan 18 12:47:42 lcuk, personally, a search isn't something I'm going to use on a mobile device. Jan 18 12:47:46 Text input is slow Jan 18 12:47:46 GeneralAntilles, I'd side with the statusbar people in that case Jan 18 12:48:02 and there are usually a finite number of things I'd actually want to lay hands on. Jan 18 12:48:06 *waves hands* how about ... both? Jan 18 12:48:22 So I'd rather it not be taking up space in my application menu. Jan 18 12:48:25 GeneralAntilles, depends what you are searching for, and if it compliments the existing selection UI quickly and smoothly just because YOU wont use it doesnt mean others wont Jan 18 12:48:28 johnx_, it should be a good one. there's complaints about the current combo used to bring up search in maemo Jan 18 12:48:35 johnx_, :) my point exactly Jan 18 12:48:44 johnx_, using Nokia's software has long since forced out that possibility when considering options. :P Jan 18 12:49:00 Search is not such necessary function to have dedicated space in mer menu Jan 18 12:49:02 lcuk, just because YOU will, doesn't mean others wont. :P Jan 18 12:49:07 Totally Jan 18 12:49:11 its like the whole scrollbars or kinetic lists and key combos - why not have all Jan 18 12:49:20 ok Jan 18 12:49:27 i understand Jan 18 12:49:27 GeneralAntilles, so if its there and jworks silently theres no problem Jan 18 12:49:49 lcuk, I just don't want it taking up menu space if I don't use it. Jan 18 12:49:54 and an applet I can disable easily Jan 18 12:49:59 A search box in the menu I may not be able to. Jan 18 12:50:06 no menu space used - infact when you press keys it should shorten the menus Jan 18 12:50:15 Maybe we can use my "uni-input" mockup but it seems too complicated to do it roght now) Jan 18 12:50:26 * lcuk has a few things in mind Jan 18 12:50:33 but i cant make them right now Jan 18 12:50:42 lcuk: ohnonono, no combinations, please Jan 18 12:50:43 damns this scalable ui widget Jan 18 12:50:53 configure: error: Your intltool is too old. You need intltool 0.23 or later. :( any hints? Jan 18 12:51:15 lcuk: key combos on touchscreen kb are totally lame Jan 18 12:51:19 ii intltool-debian 0.35.0+20060710.1osso1 Help i18n of RFC822 compliant config files Jan 18 12:51:27 wazd, the qwerty keyboard is 100% idle whilst a menu is onscreen, why the hell cant i just type and filter Jan 18 12:51:30 wazd: multitouch! Jan 18 12:51:42 Antilles is wrigh maybe some people would not like it and an applet Jan 18 12:51:50 is easy to remove Jan 18 12:51:59 multitouch would be great Jan 18 12:52:07 for what? Jan 18 12:52:19 for key combos Jan 18 12:52:22 RST38h: moo) Jan 18 12:52:22 wazd, before I forget: current mockup looks nice. the only thing I was thinking about is that having the menu button in the center is kind of a stretch for the thumbs Jan 18 12:52:23 and i can use multitouch :) Jan 18 12:52:39 RST38h, Shift + something is entirely possible with the mode of multitouch i have on n8x0 Jan 18 12:52:56 lcuk: cheater! Jan 18 12:52:56 johx_+ Jan 18 12:53:01 remember as long as the primary first finger remains still the paradigm works Jan 18 12:53:09 Hello Jan 18 12:53:14 in fact it was tge reason i entred on the IRC Jan 18 12:53:23 :) Jan 18 12:53:50 opengeekv2, have you had a chance to look at messing with the desktop layouts in maemo yet? Jan 18 12:53:59 johnx_: I think people don't use that menu all the time Jan 18 12:54:08 johnx_, the thing about that menu button is that it resembles the hardware menu button on device - i personally think it looks stupid sat in the middle Jan 18 12:54:10 After the last OS2008 update the battery lifetime of my N810 decreased rapidly - does anyone experience the same problem? Jan 18 12:54:11 johnx_: since it's not finger-friendly Jan 18 12:54:26 i would still like to see title bar names Jan 18 12:54:35 lcuk: guards! Jan 18 12:54:39 lcuk: :D Jan 18 12:54:43 now i have to go Jan 18 12:54:48 see yo later Jan 18 12:54:48 chopper, sick balls Jan 18 12:54:52 later opengeekv2. come by again :) Jan 18 12:55:00 opengeekv2: c ya) Jan 18 12:55:01 cya later opengeekv2 :) Jan 18 12:55:16 * lcuk loves a debate in the morning Jan 18 12:55:19 jkr: nope, I guess it's ok with mine Jan 18 12:55:28 jkr, besides the update have you installed any other applications recently that run in the background or run constantly? Jan 18 12:55:33 Before the update, the battery made about 10 days in idle mode - now when I fully charge it in the evening, it's down to "less than 1 hour" in the morning Jan 18 12:55:56 jkr, you have a bad process or chip running which is draining Jan 18 12:56:31 I din't think it's the hardware as it worked fine before the update Jan 18 12:56:43 johnx_: and the second reason is that we have not got any other place for this button :) Jan 18 12:56:46 What processes could be the cause, for an example? Jan 18 12:56:47 the software might not be allowing it to turn off Jan 18 12:56:56 jkr: there's always metalayer-crawler Jan 18 12:57:24 wazd, I was thinking either just right of the app menu, or just left of minimize/maximize Jan 18 12:57:29 jkr, what desktop applets have you got Jan 18 12:57:31 Stskeeps: Yup, found it in the process list Jan 18 12:57:37 wazd, though the layout should be easy to tweak Jan 18 12:57:40 Only the clock Jan 18 12:58:00 jkr, and what statusbar applets? Jan 18 12:58:16 and do you keep wifi connected? Jan 18 12:58:33 the only "non-standard" is the load-applet (the process-list, screenshot and mem/cpu-load thing) Jan 18 12:58:46 jkr, try disabling it tonight :) Jan 18 12:58:50 johnx_: in other places it will slightly mess with neigbour zones, like apps or applets Jan 18 12:59:26 Wifi is connected, but it was always connect when the battery lifetime was good too Jan 18 12:59:48 wazd, I'm going to look at layouts a bit tonight and the ubuntu marquee plugins. I'd really like to get something rough setup so I can start going around asking for pixmaps that are the right size :) Jan 18 12:59:50 johnx_: I can give you 800x480 image so you can test usability yourself Jan 18 13:00:58 Well, thanks for the tips, I'll disable the load applet and see what happens :) Jan 18 13:01:23 wazd, yeah, that would be nice Jan 18 13:03:36 johnx_: http://i024.radikal.ru/0901/73/fceb95fd6760.png Jan 18 13:04:03 thanks. and you have your source images, right? Jan 18 13:04:34 johnx_: yep Jan 18 13:05:12 I thinkl I should make "hello kitty" style widget and see what happened Jan 18 13:05:29 we so need a hello kitty or ponies theme Jan 18 13:05:32 and a bacon theme Jan 18 13:05:50 yes, maemo is not targetting some seriously large demographics Jan 18 13:07:08 there should be "cute locale" that ads something like ",cutie" or ",pupsikens" after every message :) Jan 18 13:07:34 like "xterm segfault, cutie!" :D Jan 18 13:07:52 * GeneralAntilles watches the substance slowly seep out of the project. :P Jan 18 13:07:56 :D Jan 18 13:08:14 lc_US for lolcats US :) OMGhome! LOLok! KTHXbyeCancel Jan 18 13:09:54 GeneralAntilles: i think insanity is primarily what drives it :P Jan 18 13:10:20 GeneralAntilles, no one sane would start a project like this Jan 18 13:11:33 especially not after the number of dead-ends we *both* ran down, repeatedly, (for one of us, on and off over the course of just over a year now) Jan 18 13:12:11 * johnx_ remembers making debian related noises in jan 08... Jan 18 13:13:14 * Stskeeps watches mer booting after getting installed by b-man's installer Jan 18 13:13:27 very nice! Jan 18 13:13:47 a couple of changes to be made to installer but besides that Jan 18 13:15:35 http://rafb.net/p/Lk6oAj87.html Jan 18 13:17:05 looks reasonable. Am I missing something? Jan 18 13:17:09 nop Jan 18 13:17:18 64mb free for apps per standard without swap Jan 18 13:17:30 and this is with NM loaded and openssh server Jan 18 13:18:16 did you see what it was on os2008? Jan 18 13:19:29 Mem: 113776K used, 13000K free, 0K shrd, 3536K buff, 56344K cached Jan 18 13:19:39 my current setup Jan 18 13:19:41 :) Jan 18 13:19:56 so obviously they're a bit better Jan 18 13:20:03 but on the other hand we're not even trying. Jan 18 13:20:36 exactly Jan 18 13:20:43 Hmm, I have another idea Jan 18 13:20:51 I got a new WLAN AP recently Jan 18 13:21:02 jkr: PSM not on maybe Jan 18 13:21:06 Maybe it somehow draws more power from the WLAN chip? Jan 18 13:21:14 jkr, entirely possible Jan 18 13:21:45 the n8x0 wifi chip uses agressive powersaving modes. if those are not available it hurts battery life with WLAN a lot Jan 18 13:21:46 Are there any settings on APs that are known to cause that? Jan 18 13:21:51 WMM Jan 18 13:22:02 if its on, it saves power Jan 18 13:22:06 there's a wiki page on it Jan 18 13:22:25 I already checked the WLAN settings on the N810, the powersaving is on max., power is limited to 10mW (or whatever the lower setting of the two is) Jan 18 13:22:44 Stskeeps, they should be using your ircd... Jan 18 13:22:58 johnx_: hehe. hyperion is a pos Jan 18 13:23:03 apologies for the frequent join/leave my proxy is acting up Jan 18 13:23:07 johnx_: i -think- some of my code is in there though Jan 18 13:24:09 jkr, don't limit the transmit power Jan 18 13:24:16 That can actually increase power usage in a lot of situations. Jan 18 13:24:37 jkr, the radio is only actually on for a very small fraction of the time and accounts for a small percentage of total power usage. Jan 18 13:24:52 Limiting the transmit power just means it's going to have to retransmit lost packets. Jan 18 13:24:56 GeneralAntilles: But I think the 10mW was the default setting Jan 18 13:25:00 jkr, if your AP doesn't support powersaving right, then the n8x0 can't use it. it's a cooperative thing Jan 18 13:25:13 jkr, depends on what coutntry the n8x0 was made for Jan 18 13:25:19 US should default to 100mW Jan 18 13:25:20 jkr, it's not. Jan 18 13:25:32 It's a "german" N810 :) Jan 18 13:26:18 Hey, lcuk, guess what time it is! Jan 18 13:26:30 bacon time? Jan 18 13:26:36 Hell yes! Jan 18 13:26:50 kick ass! Jan 18 13:27:18 I'm pretty sure the AP supports powersaving, it's a very advanced appliance. Jan 18 13:27:25 missus just got back from shops as well, i wish i had hindsite to ask her to pick some up Jan 18 13:27:30 Supports even draft n :) Jan 18 13:27:32 jkr: yes, but it has to be enabled ;) Jan 18 13:27:34 usually Jan 18 13:27:39 jkr, if you say it did it before its likely it does Jan 18 13:27:47 oh, actually I have bacon too :D Jan 18 13:28:07 :( i am baconless Jan 18 13:28:11 Stskeeps, the Mer logo on the wiki looks a bit busy. Jan 18 13:28:16 (!) missus going back out soon Jan 18 13:28:21 Well there's one "visible" setting in the configuration interface, "limit trasnmission power to the actual requirements automatically" (I hope it's correctly translated), which is active Jan 18 13:28:36 Too much padding, and the shadowing and light effects in the background kinda overpower the logo. Jan 18 13:28:45 But I think that's only saving power for the AP, not the clients Jan 18 13:29:22 iirc, if wireless-tools is installed, iwconfig says if it's on Jan 18 13:29:27 GeneralAntilles: mm, ok Jan 18 13:29:47 GeneralAntilles: On the client or on the AP? Jan 18 13:30:01 Sorry, qwerty12_N800 Jan 18 13:30:44 jkr, I would presume on the client because it shows the settings of the interface currently Jan 18 13:31:42 Shouldn't the wireless tolls be installed by default? Jan 18 13:32:54 qwerty12_N800, :) everytime i open a console and type cdliqbase i thank you Jan 18 13:33:52 lcuk, :). what about when you type cdliqbase; cat debian/preinst? :P Jan 18 13:33:53 I can't find the wireless tools on/for the N810, but on my Notebook it says "Powermanagement: off" Jan 18 13:34:41 heh :P nothing, cos it takes me to libliqbase and within there i choose the app and each will have its own installer :P Jan 18 13:35:13 * wazd watches Queen - Rock in Montreal Jan 18 13:35:32 jkr, I would presume your AP has power saving off. If you want to see on the N810, dpkg -i http://repository.maemo.org/pool/diablo/free/w/wireless-tools/libiw29_29~pre21-2.osso1_armel.deb and http://repository.maemo.org/pool/diablo/free/w/wireless-tools/wireless-tools_29~pre21-2.osso1_armel.deb Jan 18 13:35:40 lcuk, hehe, cool :D Jan 18 13:35:43 and im fighting with the damned globals, ive got 2 global structures which i cant easily factor out \@/ im tempted to just say bollocks to it and leave them as is and require apps to be statically linked Jan 18 13:36:15 :/, we're not exactly full of space on the flash :/ Jan 18 13:36:26 thats my problem Jan 18 13:36:35 thats why im trying damned hard to make it shared lib Jan 18 13:39:04 ive got all of the other classes nicely packaged away and im trying to make it so that a user app does not touch any of the globals but its required at some level Jan 18 13:44:21 on a more positive note, everything else is coming together nicely, Jan 18 13:46:52 what is the problem with making it a shared lib? Jan 18 13:46:55 Omegamoon, so did you make debian source packages for the things added to zubuntu that aren't in ubuntu? Jan 18 13:47:15 I couldn't log from an N800 to another host using ssh... it hangs after giving password... anyone got a similar issue? Jan 18 13:47:53 RST38h, theres a central liqcanvas canvas; instance which is used in the calls. it was the very first class i wrote way back when and contains the core open close refresh cycles for the display Jan 18 13:47:59 -Bshared to the linker or -shared to GCC and you are done Jan 18 13:48:35 all the code up until ~october expected this to be always available so never passed as a param Jan 18 13:48:42 lcuk: make it a global variable and initialize it in LiqInit() Jan 18 13:49:08 tybor, can you ssh from the N800 to another computer running ssh? Jan 18 13:49:13 i do, but then if i run another binary using the same library that other instance will screw with it Jan 18 13:49:22 and close the screen for both apps Jan 18 13:49:26 when one app closes Jan 18 13:49:34 (example, others are more esoteric) Jan 18 13:49:47 of course it will Jan 18 13:49:58 so you need to have a variable shared between processes Jan 18 13:50:19 no, i need each app to open its own screen and have its own instance of canvas Jan 18 13:50:32 right Jan 18 13:50:36 but the functions and calls dont expect it and it needs threading through the entire app Jan 18 13:50:37 you can either do it the right way making multiple liqcanvases coexist (still only need one global per app) Jan 18 13:50:38 qwerty12_N800: no, I cannot.... Jan 18 13:50:44 http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer_Blueprint#Mer_0.6 Jan 18 13:50:45 or you can do it the wrong way by using shm Jan 18 13:50:51 installer seems to work for me in simple mode Jan 18 13:51:00 has anyone here had any success with wiicontrol + bomberman? Jan 18 13:51:17 comes with enough to get you online and ssh into it from somewhere else Jan 18 13:51:43 qwerty12_N800: issuing ssh my_login@myhost -vvvv hangs after debug message "debug2: channel 0: open confirm rwindow 0 rmax 32768" Jan 18 13:51:59 RST38h, doesnt need shm because it doesnt need managing like that, its good to share the screen (it opens up avenues for doing other stuff) but its the level of globalness that needs to change Jan 18 13:52:33 Stskeeps, installing! Jan 18 13:52:33 tybor, yep, same problem as me on my old router. i fixed openssh and recompiled it : http://qwerty12.maemobox.org/openssh_badrouter_fix/ Jan 18 13:52:35 a user app shouldnt ever technically directly use any of the canvas. members of methods Jan 18 13:52:46 qwerty12_N800: this happens after having given the (correct) password. (The behaviour with a wrong passwd is wayy different). Jan 18 13:53:02 Stskeeps, online including wpa? Jan 18 13:53:05 qwerty12_N800: yes Jan 18 13:53:16 i use wpa2 at home Jan 18 13:53:23 however the user objects should hold a reference to it - i know what *needs* to be done, itsj usta big job and has to tread carefully to not break stuff Jan 18 13:53:38 qwerty12_N800: old router? I once read there were a workaround for the server setting but I couldn't find it anymore Jan 18 13:53:56 or bring in numerous odd bugs, its all part of the simplification im up to my elbows in Jan 18 13:54:14 tybor, yeah, my new router doesn't need those fixed packages Jan 18 13:54:14 * lcuk is wearing many hats Jan 18 13:55:06 Mmm . . . that was a good BLT Jan 18 13:55:18 qwerty12_N800: /me sighs... his NetGear DN834PN is labelled as old...... :) Jan 18 13:55:31 GeneralAntilles, you know how to tease people Jan 18 13:55:37 tybor, my DG834GT did it :D Jan 18 13:55:40 qwerty12_N800: the jffs images are up too Jan 18 13:55:44 just fyi Jan 18 13:55:48 (marked untested) Jan 18 13:56:50 Stskeeps, probably won't be testing, I don't have time to backup my current rootfs as jffs2 Jan 18 13:56:55 qwerty12_N800: *nod* Jan 18 13:57:33 * Stskeeps gets at building the virtualbox appliance Jan 18 13:57:38 hello Jan 18 13:58:22 * johnx_ attempts to beat marquee plugins into submission Jan 18 13:59:45 johnx_: happen to have virtualbox on either linux or win? Jan 18 14:00:03 i took some config files from ubuntu-mobile. http://trac.tspre.org/meiz/ume-conffiles.tar.gz Jan 18 14:00:04 nope, but I can get it Jan 18 14:00:20 need someone to test this appliance when done, so :) Jan 18 14:00:31 ah, I'll start downloading Jan 18 14:00:42 I have lots of little machines. I need tasks for all of them anyways... Jan 18 14:01:41 * thopiekar is waiting for 2 days long.. it's even strange that he's such a long time offline and not responsing.. Jan 18 14:03:54 johnx: String them together into christmas lights Jan 18 14:04:28 I just realized, without even intending to I collected all the major architectures supported by linux Jan 18 14:04:36 lol Jan 18 14:04:53 johnx_: so how's the UX?) Jan 18 14:05:18 johnx: got MIPS? Jan 18 14:05:21 wazd, hm? ah, haven't showed it on screen yet. I'm installing mer so I can dig into layouts :) Jan 18 14:05:36 RST38h, on my router Jan 18 14:06:18 johnx: [scratching head] Got PPC? Jan 18 14:06:39 RST38h, it sits in a white box labeled "nintendo" :) Jan 18 14:06:50 a 750gx IIRC Jan 18 14:07:06 [slightly hitting head on the wall] Got SH3/SH4? Jan 18 14:07:49 repo down for a bit btw, have to go restart the machine :P Jan 18 14:07:50 nah, but I'm looking at some older (cheap) WinCE devices at my local used-electronics store Jan 18 14:08:10 the kind that can be s/wince/linux/ Jan 18 14:08:36 I think I'm pretty maxed out for machines I can care about hacking on though Jan 18 14:08:38 Oh, shit, this laptop is now 5 years old Jan 18 14:08:41 * RST38h needs a new one fast Jan 18 14:08:54 johnx: Gotcha! Jan 18 14:09:10 You should definitely buy a Sega Saturn for the SH3/SH4 :) Jan 18 14:09:27 johnx: BTW, you haven't got a SPARC have you? Jan 18 14:09:40 ah, the caveat here is that all those machines I listed are running linux Jan 18 14:09:42 with raw x11 how do i find the inner size of a window? im trying XGetGeometry and also XGetWindowAttributes and both return full 800*480 Jan 18 14:09:44 and yeah, no sparc Jan 18 14:09:52 i know however the inner window is much smaller Jan 18 14:09:56 maybe I'll dig one up when I'm back in the US Jan 18 14:10:12 johnx: Lotsa Chinese DVD players are SPARC based Jan 18 14:10:30 johnx: Anything that uses Cheertek chipset is SPARC based Jan 18 14:10:38 caveat: needs to have mmu, run linux Jan 18 14:10:52 oh no. tony hart has passed away :( Jan 18 14:10:54 or netbsd would be fine I suppose Jan 18 14:10:54 Probably have MMU too, but I have not checked Jan 18 14:11:07 RST38h: btw, I've tested VGBA yesterday Jan 18 14:11:19 RST38h: I think you're demon :) Jan 18 14:11:34 wazd: You mean the Maemo version? Jan 18 14:11:38 RST38h: yep Jan 18 14:11:46 it is pretty fast yes Jan 18 14:12:04 qwerty12_N800: Installed it. Problem solved... 10x... Jan 18 14:12:11 RST38h: Have you used some voodoo magic or something?) Jan 18 14:12:21 wazd: no, just lots of assembly language Jan 18 14:12:22 will maemo switch to qt? Jan 18 14:12:27 at *some* choice places Jan 18 14:12:38 tybor: no Jan 18 14:12:42 tybor, no in the foreseeable future. Jan 18 14:12:50 tybor, im sure qt will play a part but i dont see an instant switch Jan 18 14:12:55 s/no/no, not/ Jan 18 14:13:14 tybor, no problem :) Jan 18 14:13:17 wazd, GeneralAntilles lcuk: so nokia acquired it to boost their smartphone, not the webtablet.... Jan 18 14:13:26 tybor, it'll SHIP Qt Jan 18 14:13:32 But that doesn't mean it's _switching_ to it. Jan 18 14:13:33 tybor: not again Jan 18 14:13:44 tybor, im quite certain we would have it now if performance and simplicity worked Jan 18 14:13:58 lcuk, it's an issue of it not being hildonized. Jan 18 14:14:07 but when you have a whole OS geared to an existing functional toolkit momentum takes time Jan 18 14:14:08 It needs to be transparent to users before Nokia will ship it. :) Jan 18 14:14:13 .. Jan 18 14:14:33 tybor, it doesn't matter what the core applications use, anyway. Jan 18 14:14:42 What matters is what tools are available to developers. Jan 18 14:14:59 c++ compilation is heavy on the tablets :'( Jan 18 14:15:14 lcuk, that's why it's only insane people who compile on them. Jan 18 14:15:31 c compilation is so simple though, it works really well Jan 18 14:15:51 insane and desperate Jan 18 14:15:54 and im not insane, GeneralAntilles things like adv_ compile really quickly its only mega projects that would take a long time Jan 18 14:16:02 btw, transparency Jan 18 14:16:22 does anyone checked if it's possible?) Jan 18 14:16:43 GeneralAntilles, if people could build their apps directly from any OS by simply installing a single devpack wouldnt it help get developers in? Jan 18 14:17:23 "im a dev and i wanna write a little program to do ......." becomes, sure just install this and start hacking. no bother if they are in windows or linux or mac or anything Jan 18 14:17:27 wazd, is this still about matchbox window borders having a semi-transparent edge? if so then the answer is still no I believe Jan 18 14:17:28 they can get moving Jan 18 14:17:35 * tybor dislikes c++ a lot.... it is way far too complicated for human mind to grasp Jan 18 14:17:48 lcuk, that's what the VMWare image is for. Jan 18 14:17:55 lcuk: You have stated the problem with yout approach yourself Jan 18 14:17:59 tybor, ioften think of some of the nice things c++ brings but then think they stepped over the line Jan 18 14:18:03 lcuk: The tabet is too slow for that Jan 18 14:18:04 johnx_: :( Jan 18 14:18:13 RST38h, is it bollocks too slow Jan 18 14:18:16 * Stslaptop goes to the shop and then to reboot the repository server Jan 18 14:18:21 i do it every single day Jan 18 14:18:32 wazd, it's a matchbox thing. it's just a simple wm. they don't have fancy transparency stuff (unless nokia puts it in) Jan 18 14:18:33 lcuk: So, as much as I hate it, just install damn Linux and use it Jan 18 14:18:33 lcuk: it evolved into a behemoth language.... there are several oo languages that deserved c++ place but couldn't grasp it. Eiffel, D ... Jan 18 14:18:36 GeneralAntilles, the vmware still requires a lot more than anything Jan 18 14:18:49 lcuk, install VMWare, boot. Jan 18 14:19:08 There is also coLinux Jan 18 14:19:27 coLinux isn't even a real Linux, but it should suffice Jan 18 14:19:35 all these are monsters. there is a perfectly good linux system running in a perfect test bed all the time Jan 18 14:19:41 tybor, does D even have one open source compiler? Jan 18 14:19:51 johnx_: it has a LLVM one now Jan 18 14:20:04 lcuk: except that it is too slow to compile c++, too slow to compile Vala and barely enough to compile C Jan 18 14:20:12 lcuk, I'm not sure what your argument is at this point. Jan 18 14:20:15 But I agree that it is perfect otherwise :) Jan 18 14:20:51 RST38h, its great for c, the next device will have much better performance (doesnt gan say 3x) so the other arguments go as well Jan 18 14:21:00 johnx_: Eiffel have a GNU compiler.... and it is as fast as C++ and C Jan 18 14:21:16 johnx_: SmartEiffel (smarteiffel.org) Jan 18 14:21:50 i am merely pondering how to lower the level of entry to working on our little devices :) Jan 18 14:22:27 wazd, I spoke too soon: apparently matchbox wm has some kind of composite support, but I'm not sure if the feature you want is implemented. You could try setting the title bar to a png with an alpha channel and see what happens I suppose Jan 18 14:24:01 lcuk: the 3x figure is what Russians call "average temperature throughout the hospital" Jan 18 14:24:41 what's usyally the location of C header files? vmware wants to find em Jan 18 14:24:47 lcuk: my guess is that it will still be sluggish on compilation tasks, due to large memory footprint and lots of IO Jan 18 14:24:50 lcuk: any hint on the "next device"? Jan 18 14:24:58 Meiz_n810, /usr/include Jan 18 14:25:04 thanks Jan 18 14:25:13 tybor, yes, it will be shiny Jan 18 14:25:33 and hopefully mery Jan 18 14:26:02 but seriously, how the hell should i know! Jan 18 14:26:07 tybor, hint: http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Maemo_roadmap/Fremantle Jan 18 14:26:14 tybor: I have special secret insider info Jan 18 14:26:31 tybor: It would be cool :) Jan 18 14:26:48 johnx_: vmware does not accept :( Jan 18 14:27:05 Meiz_n810, what headers is it looking for? kernel headers? Jan 18 14:27:21 tybor: it will have a Huge Deadly Laser (tm) Jan 18 14:27:28 "the directory of kernel headers does not match your running kernel" says vmware Jan 18 14:27:35 johnx_: yes Jan 18 14:28:02 you asked me C header files, not kernel headers :P Jan 18 14:28:13 is this ubuntu? Jan 18 14:28:24 and do you have the kernel headers package installed? Jan 18 14:28:28 mer Jan 18 14:28:34 not sure Jan 18 14:28:40 what's the package Jan 18 14:28:41 ? Jan 18 14:28:52 wait, you're trying to run vmware inside mer? Jan 18 14:28:57 on x86? Jan 18 14:28:58 yep Jan 18 14:29:01 yep Jan 18 14:29:06 >_< Jan 18 14:29:14 just follow the ubuntu howto :P Jan 18 14:29:29 ok... Jan 18 14:30:02 probably the first thing to do is find out your kernel version (uname -r) and install kernel-headers that matches Jan 18 14:30:38 anyways, this is the right page for info: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/VMware Jan 18 14:30:49 if I told you anything, I'd just be copy+pasting from it Jan 18 14:31:13 hello everyone Jan 18 14:31:22 hi WorkingOnWise Jan 18 14:31:32 RX-51 rumors: http://maemo.org/community/council/community_highlights_for_december_2008-part_i-january_2009-part_ii/ Jan 18 14:31:55 johnx_: thanks :) Jan 18 14:32:42 is it ok if I paste a rather long post from itt here in hopes I can get a resolution from someone here? This problem has gone rater critical for me. Jan 18 14:32:58 paste the link Jan 18 14:33:03 please a link Jan 18 14:33:54 lol. duh! that works too huh? :) http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26296 Jan 18 14:35:20 after the tragic death of my tablet pc, my N800 is forced to serve s my promary computer. Jan 18 14:35:55 which version of the lcars theme did you install? Jan 18 14:38:36 4.* I dont have the repo in on my flash installed OS2008 to tell you for sure, but its the only one showing in the app manager as of 1an EST Jan 18 14:39:00 1an = 1am Jan 18 14:40:05 Meiz_n810: get Damn Small Linux (50mb) iso and use that to install into the virtual harddrie Jan 18 14:40:06 are you sure it was the lcars theme for diablo? Jan 18 14:41:11 at this point, no. app manager installed it without any complaints. Jan 18 14:41:37 ok, well then first thing is to backup your files at least, huh? Jan 18 14:41:54 I did see there were 2 themes for lcars I had not seen before, one for sure being gray. Jan 18 14:42:47 are you booted to flash? Jan 18 14:42:53 johnx_: 0.6 working? Jan 18 14:43:01 if I can get to tghe ext3 partition on the sd card to find the contacts database for gpe contacts and the bookmark file for microb, I can reclone it and be done. Jan 18 14:43:09 to mount an ext3 partition, you first need to have the jbd, mbcache & ext3 modules inserted. Run, as root, "insmod /mnt/initfs/lib/modules/2.6.21-omap1/jbd.ko && insmod /mnt/initfs/lib/modules/2.6.21-omap1/mbcache.ko && insmod /mnt/initfs/lib/modules/2.6.21-omap1/ext3.ko" Jan 18 14:43:10 Stskeeps, just finished. d/l'ed at about 50KB/s Jan 18 14:43:13 i can boot to flash, yes. Jan 18 14:43:17 johnx_: ah, it used to be faster Jan 18 14:43:33 qwerty12_N801, have you tried the XChat tabs on the bottom? Jan 18 14:43:33 Stskeeps, could be on my side Jan 18 14:43:45 WorkingOnWise, qwerty12_N801 beat me to it. do what he says :) Jan 18 14:44:04 GeneralAntilles, no, they annoyed me last time I had done so :) Jan 18 14:44:10 Ah Jan 18 14:44:16 lol. cool. brb. Jan 18 14:44:17 I'm annoyed by the massive sidebar, so. :P Jan 18 14:44:23 qwerty12_N801, c'mon, everyone else is doin' it. :P Jan 18 14:44:33 Jan 18 14:44:40 * aquatix tells johnx_ to jump off that bridge Jan 18 14:44:47 with tabs anywhere other than the bottom i miss other conversations Jan 18 14:45:03 johnx_, I'm a traditionalist, you'll never convince me! :P Jan 18 14:45:04 Yeah, qwerty12_N801, you want to be cool, don't you? Jan 18 14:45:07 aquatix, you packed me a parachute, right? Jan 18 14:45:10 johnx_: everybody is doing it ;) Jan 18 14:45:19 nah, some elastic thingee Jan 18 14:45:22 Meiz_n810: ok, don't use Damn Small Linux :P Jan 18 14:45:24 bungie cord! Jan 18 14:45:29 _Everybody_ is packing johnx_ a parachute. Jan 18 14:45:36 GeneralAntilles, No! What gave you that idea? :P Jan 18 14:45:47 * aquatix throws johnx_ off a bridge with 300 parachutes strapped to his body Jan 18 14:45:56 "parachute deploy" "access denied" Jan 18 14:46:00 you'll be fine! Jan 18 14:46:04 lcuk: ghehe Jan 18 14:46:09 time to hide! Jan 18 14:46:09 "Cancel or allow?" Jan 18 14:46:15 "sudo parachute deploy" Jan 18 14:46:16 lol Jan 18 14:46:20 lcuk: :) Jan 18 14:46:22 they'll never find me with this alias! Jan 18 14:46:31 hi johnx Jan 18 14:46:32 :p Jan 18 14:46:42 >_> Jan 18 14:46:44 <_< Jan 18 14:46:49 * aquatix wonders where johnx_ went Jan 18 14:46:51 anyone know where johnx_ went? theres some hookers asking for him. Jan 18 14:46:59 lcuk: with you too? Jan 18 14:47:03 I saw him leaving... Jan 18 14:47:07 hm Jan 18 14:47:15 oh well, though luck for him then Jan 18 14:47:20 ahhh well, they will have to carry on partying here Jan 18 14:47:42 luck of lcuk? Jan 18 14:47:43 bbl playing wii with folks Jan 18 14:47:43