**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Jan 19 02:59:57 2009
Jan 19 04:02:38 <LinuxHack3r> Hello everyone! Thinking of a nokia 800/810. Just wondering...how good can I get of an ssh client for either?
Jan 19 04:05:37 <Mousey> nokia 180
Jan 19 04:05:46 <Mousey> and the ssh client is OpenSSH if you don't want DropBear. so
Jan 19 04:05:53 <Mousey> as good as any linux box
Jan 19 04:05:57 <Mousey> why.. it IS a linux box
Jan 19 04:05:57 <Mousey> =)
Jan 19 04:06:12 <Mousey> seriously
Jan 19 04:06:23 <Mousey> it's good stuff
Jan 19 04:06:30 <Mousey> get the 810 tho
Jan 19 04:06:31 <Mousey> not the 800
Jan 19 04:06:40 <Mousey> OR SUFFER the LACK of HARDWARE KEYBOARD
Jan 19 04:08:05 <LinuxHack3r> I am planning on it Mousey. I love the look of the device. Just don't like the slightly higher than iPod Touch pricetag.
Jan 19 04:09:30 <Mousey> oh, it's a worse touchscreen than the ipod touch, but it's INFINITLEY better of a device, it's not walled in like your average apple, its 800x480, WAY better than apple, it's got a hw keyboard, it's WAY more configurable, and if you write a better app than is supplied, NOBODY will DENY you the sale/distribution of that app
Jan 19 04:09:47 <Mousey> oh, and the speakers are WAY better
Jan 19 04:09:58 <Mousey> way better speakers than you'd expect
Jan 19 04:10:24 <ljp> and its made by Nokia :)
Jan 19 04:10:36 <Mousey> well, there's that i guess
Jan 19 04:10:46 <ljp> ok, I might be slightly biased
Jan 19 04:10:48 <Mousey> but don't let that deter you! =F
Jan 19 04:10:56 <Mousey> seriously
Jan 19 04:11:19 <Mousey> i could care less about LITERALLY EVERYTHING nokia makes, but the n810 is the most useful laptop replacement i've ever used
Jan 19 04:11:31 <johnx_> Mousey++
Jan 19 04:11:32 <Mousey> i use it a LOT more than my eee, and i use my main notebook a lot less
Jan 19 04:11:57 <Mousey> i barely even carry a notebook anymore
Jan 19 04:11:58 <Mousey> oh
Jan 19 04:12:23 <LinuxHack3r> Mousey: But the touchscreen is by far usable right? and I like HW keyboards. Plus I suppose that their bluetooth actually lets you do stuff ;)
Jan 19 04:12:28 <Mousey> another downside (over the n800) is that it's a MicroSD slot (where the n800 is two full sized SD slots), but i put a 16GB microSD card in, and it's awesome
Jan 19 04:12:34 <Mousey> yea, the touchscreen is ENTIRELY usable
Jan 19 04:12:39 <Mousey> entirely
Jan 19 04:12:52 <sisto> isn't it mini sd????
Jan 19 04:13:10 <LinuxHack3r> I think so.
Jan 19 04:13:15 <Mousey> apple has all the mindshare with their multi-touch, and their GL-ES.. and it'd be nice if the n810 had it
Jan 19 04:13:17 <Mousey> yah, mini-sd
Jan 19 04:13:26 <Mousey> but i still have a microsd card in it, cuz mini doesn't come in >4
Jan 19 04:13:31 <Mousey> wait,, >6
Jan 19 04:13:50 <johnx_> LinuxHack3r, yup. can't speak for the n810 but even the n800's onscreen is faster for me than typing on an iphone. and yes, it's real bluetooth. we even have software to play nice with a wiimote :)
Jan 19 04:13:53 <LinuxHack3r> So I can transfer photos, music, and videos, even more, over bluetooth to and from my ubuntu, can't i?
Jan 19 04:14:15 <ljp> yep
Jan 19 04:14:16 <sisto> Mousey: that sucks
Jan 19 04:14:17 <johnx_> bt is a little slow for that ...
Jan 19 04:14:28 <sisto> (mini sd sucks)
Jan 19 04:14:39 <LinuxHack3r> sisto: why?
Jan 19 04:14:52 <sisto> because of what mousey said
Jan 19 04:14:56 <Mousey> sisto: it might suck, but it takes a 16GB MicroSD card, so i don't really care
Jan 19 04:15:06 <Mousey> 16GB!!
Jan 19 04:15:16 <Mousey> trust me, for the n810, that's way more than plenty
Jan 19 04:15:22 <sisto> micro sd is cool though
Jan 19 04:15:25 <LinuxHack3r> So where is the best place for me buy one/
Jan 19 04:15:55 <sisto> amazon?
Jan 19 04:15:58 <Mousey> LinuxHack3r: pay as little as you can, another very unimpressive thing about the n810 is the price.. but it's worth it, imho. i swear, i didn't use my notebook for a month when i got mine
Jan 19 04:16:24 <Mousey> and it's crazy hackable.. and there's a vibrant community hacking on it
Jan 19 04:16:29 <sisto> very cheap here: http://www.jr.com/nokia/pe/NOK_NOKIAN810/
Jan 19 04:16:41 <sisto> 250 bucks
Jan 19 04:16:49 <Mousey> oh, LinuxHack3r and maemo is debian-based
Jan 19 04:16:56 <sisto> free shipping
Jan 19 04:16:56 <Mousey> so there!! HA! =P
Jan 19 04:17:03 <LinuxHack3r> sisto: Whoa! that is. But...but....never heard of the site...and their out of stock.
Jan 19 04:17:14 <Mousey> so you can apt-get install <stuff>
Jan 19 04:17:19 <Mousey> take THAT ipod touch!!
Jan 19 04:17:22 <sisto> it's in new york right near the brooklyn bridge
Jan 19 04:17:30 <sisto> i purchased stuff on their store in the past
Jan 19 04:17:31 <Mousey> has a for sale sign in the window?
Jan 19 04:17:32 <sisto> they are good
Jan 19 04:17:39 <LinuxHack3r> sisto: So their legit? and not fakes or something?
Jan 19 04:17:43 <ljp> new york.. where's that?
Jan 19 04:17:58 <Mousey> used to be new amsterdam
Jan 19 04:18:03 <ljp> ohh ok
Jan 19 04:18:16 <johnx_> hasn't j&r been around for the better part of the 20th century?
Jan 19 04:18:34 <johnx_> not quite it seems...but yes, they're legit
Jan 19 04:18:45 <sisto> they are legit yes
Jan 19 04:18:47 <Mousey> more importantly, they're outta stock!     ;_;
Jan 19 04:18:58 <sisto> oh bummer
Jan 19 04:19:01 <johnx_> legitimately out of stock though
Jan 19 04:19:02 <LinuxHack3r> sisto: Any more magic places?
Jan 19 04:19:16 <sisto> just a sec
Jan 19 04:19:18 <johnx_> hit up google, find a good price, ask us if it's legit :)
Jan 19 04:19:26 <sisto> http://www.mobilecityonline.com/wireless/store/search.asp?keywords=n810&x=0&y=0
Jan 19 04:19:48 <sisto> look it up in best buy too
Jan 19 04:19:56 <sisto> target.com ?
Jan 19 04:20:05 <johnx_> tigerdirect for $350
Jan 19 04:20:30 <sisto> btw i never purchased on that site (mobilecity)
Jan 19 04:21:04 <sisto> try newegg.com
Jan 19 04:21:08 <sisto> and compare prices
Jan 19 04:21:25 <LinuxHack3r> newegg...nothing...
Jan 19 04:21:30 <LinuxHack3r> tigers not bad.
Jan 19 04:21:43 <sisto> you can also try http://www.google.com/products
Jan 19 04:22:39 <sisto> this one looks too cheap to be legit: http://www.justmywireless.com/product_info.php?products_id=389
Jan 19 04:23:47 <LinuxHack3r> sisto: if jr.com is as reputable as you say...I'll gladly pay them the money.
Jan 19 04:24:58 <sisto> LinuxHack3r: i would wait to be on stock though
Jan 19 04:25:00 <Proteous> tigerdirect is not known for good customer support
Jan 19 04:25:12 <sisto> *for it
Jan 19 04:25:28 <Mousey> if you order from tiger direct, CALL THEM, don't do it online, imho
Jan 19 04:27:29 <LinuxHack3r> sisto: They supposedly do a thing where you buy now...they charge when they get it. not a bad idea if they are hard to keep in stock at %50 the price.
Jan 19 04:28:38 <sisto> LinuxHack3r: sounds like a good idea.
Jan 19 04:28:39 <sisto> how long does it take till you get it? you should ask them
Jan 19 04:29:10 <LinuxHack3r> what do you mean? dunno...but I'll find out. *bookmarks.
Jan 19 04:31:11 <LinuxHack3r> milos_: sisto So this device...it has a filesystem doesn't it? like /etc, /bin, etc?
Jan 19 04:31:56 <johnx_> LinuxHack3r, yup. it's a real linux device
Jan 19 04:32:03 <LinuxHack3r> So I've gotta get one.
Jan 19 04:32:03 <sisto> i mean... how long till it comes into stock and they ship it to you
Jan 19 04:32:43 <johnx_> Nokia even hosts the app you install to get unrestricted root access :)
Jan 19 04:33:13 <milos_> LinuxHack3r, you probably changed me with somebody?
Jan 19 04:33:44 <LinuxHack3r> milos_: Yep...sorry.
Jan 19 04:33:56 <LinuxHack3r> johnx_: So that is easy I presume?
Jan 19 04:34:37 <johnx_> yup. that and most other app installs are easy
Jan 19 04:34:57 <johnx_> there is some beta software floating around that can be a little less than straightforward to install though
Jan 19 04:35:42 <LinuxHack3r> sisto: The big question...say I do this. I use google checkout and click the buy now button for it at 250bucks. I wonder what'll happen if it goes off sale say tommorow, and then they get it the next day. Will the charge me 250 or the full price I wonder.
Jan 19 04:36:25 <johnx_> if they decide not to honor the sale price, I think they'd refund you rather than charge more, but I'm not sure
Jan 19 04:36:58 <LinuxHack3r> If they're legit..then sure..that makes sense. You could always..I suppose..cancel/return an order.
Jan 19 04:37:42 <sisto> you could call them and ask: http://www.jr.com/information/contactUs.jsp
Jan 19 04:41:34 <LinuxHack3r> sisto: One last question: How does tab work?
Jan 19 04:42:29 <sisto> LinuxHack3r: tab?
Jan 19 04:42:31 <LinuxHack3r> on the 810...how does tab work?
Jan 19 04:42:44 <LinuxHack3r> sisto: the tab button..like to complete stuff in terminal. tab button on keyboard?
Jan 19 04:42:52 <Mousey> LinuxHack3r: there's no hardware key for it
Jan 19 04:42:54 <Mousey> BY DEFAULT
Jan 19 04:42:54 <Mousey> but
Jan 19 04:42:57 <sisto> i don't have a maemo device yet
Jan 19 04:42:58 <Mousey> i remmaped mine
Jan 19 04:43:03 <sisto> but i'll get one soon
Jan 19 04:43:26 <LinuxHack3r> Mousey: meaning what? how do you do it? how hard is it to remap?
Jan 19 04:43:39 <Mousey> for some bizzare reason, Nokia thought it would be an awesome idea to have a function key for Yen, Euro, AND sterling!
Jan 19 04:43:52 <Mousey> fortunately they're all in awesome places for remapping
Jan 19 04:43:55 <Mousey> it's very easy to do
Jan 19 04:44:01 <LinuxHack3r> what do you mean? function key?
Jan 19 04:44:14 <Mousey> there's a fn key, like for number and punctuation and such
Jan 19 04:44:20 <Mousey> it's a damn small keyboard
Jan 19 04:44:26 <Mousey> there's no | by default either
Jan 19 04:44:39 <Mousey> that one's extra stupid cuz it's like 2 menus deep to get to
Jan 19 04:44:53 <Mousey> but remaps to the sterling (british pound) key quite nicely
Jan 19 04:45:12 <LinuxHack3r> Mousey: so their is a key for sterling...an actual key..that I can remap to tab?
Jan 19 04:45:19 <Mousey> yah
Jan 19 04:45:25 <LinuxHack3r> *buying.
Jan 19 04:45:26 <Mousey> it's fn - ;
Jan 19 04:45:49 <Mousey> fn - m is the euro symbol [which i remapped to `]
Jan 19 04:45:57 <Mousey> and fn -z is the yen symbol
Jan 19 04:46:01 <Mousey> which i remapped to tab
Jan 19 04:46:20 <Mousey> which is excellent because z is right above fn, so it's one stroke of the thumb to get a tab
Jan 19 04:46:36 <Mousey> there are other ways around the limitation
Jan 19 04:46:44 <LinuxHack3r> Mousey: sounds ok.
Jan 19 04:47:23 <Mousey> yah, overall they're minor annoyances really. overcomeable ones thankfully
Jan 19 04:48:04 <Mousey> the terminal has softkeys for specials which are remappable, so i've mapped []{} there
Jan 19 04:48:19 <LinuxHack3r> softkeys?
Jan 19 04:48:33 <Mousey> it's not as bad as it could be i think, i wish someone who actually used the command line designed the keyboard tho
Jan 19 04:48:49 <Mousey> there's a "bar" at the bottom of the terminal program for keys which can be mapped
Jan 19 04:49:02 <Mousey> Tab is one of the defaults
Jan 19 04:49:11 <Mousey> i prefer a hardware tab
Jan 19 04:49:33 <LinuxHack3r> oh...gotcha. so is this thing normall "titanium"? Just wondering...deal seems too good to be true.
Jan 19 04:49:54 <LinuxHack3r> before I click the last button...what do you honestly think? http://www.jr.com/nokia/pe/NOK_NOKIAN810/
Jan 19 04:50:42 <Mousey> i can't speak to where you'd buy it. but i can speak for the device. it's nice to have a celphone company make a computer so small, cuz it's pretty sturdy and well thought out hardware, like a celphone should be.. only a computer.. not a phone
Jan 19 04:50:59 <Mousey> ^_^
Jan 19 04:51:12 <LinuxHack3r> What I mean...all those specs and photos check out?
Jan 19 04:51:15 <Mousey> oh
Jan 19 04:51:17 * Mousey clicks
Jan 19 04:51:56 <Mousey> the specs look right
Jan 19 04:52:04 <Mousey> is it titanium? i donno
Jan 19 04:52:20 <LinuxHack3r> titanium color is what I think they mean. I think they have a black as well?
Jan 19 04:52:28 <Mousey> oh
Jan 19 04:52:33 <Mousey> yah, that's the wimax edition
Jan 19 04:52:37 <Mousey> waste of money, imho
Jan 19 04:52:50 <Mousey> they could put a better gps receiver in for all that nonesense
Jan 19 04:53:08 <Mousey> or hell, a g3 radio, or maybe a goddamn regular sd slot
Jan 19 04:53:26 <Mousey> oh, another thing, it's MicroUSB (not miniUSB)
Jan 19 04:53:29 <LinuxHack3r> but but but...the wimax is better than the standard...no?
Jan 19 04:53:35 <Mousey> if it EXISTED, sure
Jan 19 04:53:54 <Mousey> when i can go to Fry's and pick myself up a nice d-link/linksys wimax router, i'll give a damn
Jan 19 04:54:05 <Mousey> but as long as somebody's asking me to pay to use 802.16, they can suck it
Jan 19 04:54:15 <doc|home> d-link sucks, avoid
Jan 19 04:54:30 <LinuxHack3r> what I'm saying..that thing I just payed 250 bucks for...it'll work with wifi and stuff, right? it ISN'T the wiimax, is it?
Jan 19 04:54:32 <Mousey> doc|home: not exactly the point. but ya, iagree
Jan 19 04:54:57 <Mousey> doesn't look like the wimax edition, but the only *I* could tell is the keyb is black
Jan 19 04:55:05 <Mousey> if the keyb is silver, it's the regular n810
Jan 19 04:55:10 <Mousey> either way 250 is a great price
Jan 19 04:55:22 <LinuxHack3r> ok...you had me scared there for a second.
Jan 19 04:55:46 <LinuxHack3r> yah, that's the wimax edition.........waste of money, imho..........
Jan 19 04:55:58 <Mousey> i hate buying stuff on the interwebs, i'd be more worried about the transaction than the actual device
Jan 19 04:56:32 <Mousey> i mean the wimax part is a waste of money on nokia's part cuz they coulda done other cooler shit than bank on some non-existant buzzwordwhoring
Jan 19 04:56:54 <Mousey> if you DO wind up with the wimax edition, you're still good
Jan 19 04:57:00 <Mousey> arguably better
Jan 19 04:57:01 <LinuxHack3r> Oh..gotcha...thanks.
Jan 19 04:57:02 <Mousey> who knows
Jan 19 04:57:32 <LinuxHack3r> ahh...lets see. I took paypal to create a virtual visa..then went through google...who pays jr.com. It's !gotta work.
Jan 19 04:59:44 <LinuxHack3r> sisto: Well..just tried it...now lets see how long to wait...
Jan 19 04:59:56 <fireun> Mousey: you dont think its nokias way of investing in a potential technology that might play in the cellular provider market?
Jan 19 05:00:01 <sisto> LinuxHack3r: yey! :)
Jan 19 05:00:03 <fireun> thats what I see of wimax
Jan 19 05:00:22 <Mousey> it'd be a better investment to sell some wimax routers to ME
Jan 19 05:00:27 <Mousey> as generic hardware
Jan 19 05:00:28 <LinuxHack3r> sisto: I just hope jr.com pulls through within a week.
Jan 19 05:00:36 <LinuxHack3r> and that they only charge 250
Jan 19 05:00:38 <Mousey> fsck sprint and making me pay for something i can get myself
Jan 19 05:00:42 <LinuxHack3r> and that it is an actual nokia810
Jan 19 05:00:44 <fireun> mousey: the range of wimax doesnt play into consumer use
Jan 19 05:00:53 <LinuxHack3r> if those all work, sisto, male or female, I love you!
Jan 19 05:00:56 <fireun> excluding the occasional hardware nerd
Jan 19 05:00:57 <Mousey> i'm a ham radio operator, i need a license, i'll get one
Jan 19 05:01:12 <Mousey> and besides, that's the death knell for wimax right there
Jan 19 05:01:13 <fireun> exactly
Jan 19 05:01:25 <fireun> what is the deathnell?
Jan 19 05:01:33 <Mousey> wifi was successful -because- it's available to anyone
Jan 19 05:01:45 <Mousey> wimax is just another scam to indenture networks
Jan 19 05:01:48 <fireun> there are network overlaps that mean it wont actually be a major concern for the consumer
Jan 19 05:01:58 <sisto> LinuxHack3r: lol
Jan 19 05:02:03 <fireun> it'll just mean better coverage for their <insert hardware gadget>
Jan 19 05:02:12 <LinuxHack3r> I hate anticipations.
Jan 19 05:02:19 <Mousey> LinuxHack3r: me too
Jan 19 05:02:24 <fireun> I love anticipation
Jan 19 05:02:32 <Mousey> LinuxHack3r: if you hack linux tho, you'll love this box
Jan 19 05:02:39 <fireun> much more satisfying than cheap satisfaction
Jan 19 05:02:50 <sisto> i have to wait till the end of february to get one :I
Jan 19 05:03:03 <fireun> I have to wait till summer for more Mad Men
Jan 19 05:03:15 <sisto> mad men? i only saw season one
Jan 19 05:03:25 <LinuxHack3r> Mousey: I'm going to start blogging again. As you can see, linuxhack3r.com is outdated. But now I can post from my nokia, when I have time at work at school, and have lots to blog about!
Jan 19 05:04:21 <Mousey> heh
Jan 19 05:04:36 <Mousey> yah, i use mine for blogging, but mostly for web administration of game servers =)
Jan 19 05:04:47 <sisto> has anyone come across a maemo "post-it" notes app which can sync to a desktop counterpart?
Jan 19 05:05:35 <LinuxHack3r> that's cool. Expecially if you only have one desktop at home, and when gaming, you need to do something. I'll love it because I screw up linux a lot...and running up and down the stairs to access my server downstairs just to use irssi gets old.
Jan 19 05:07:02 <sisto> one use i will probably give it is as an e-book reader
Jan 19 05:07:06 <LinuxHack3r> Perhaps I'll do this: Stay on this channel and google and such until the device arrives. That way I'll know everything possible when it gets here ;)
Jan 19 05:07:16 <LinuxHack3r> sisto: I saw that..pdf's and stuff too.
Jan 19 05:07:25 <greenmanspirit_> i am using the rtcomm beta stuff for presence so that i can connect to aim, recently it has been showing two or three copies of all my contacts, any idea why and how to fix it
Jan 19 05:07:32 <LinuxHack3r> it is....minisd? or micrsd? or what? I'm confussed.
Jan 19 05:07:47 <LinuxHack3r> greenmanspirit_: pidgin works on this thing, no?
Jan 19 05:08:15 <LinuxHack3r> but...the 810 has 2gb internal doesn't it!
Jan 19 05:09:08 <greenmanspirit_> linuxhack3r, it does but i dont believe pidgin makes the led blink like presence
Jan 19 05:09:43 <LinuxHack3r> led blink like presence? I just bought mine. 5 minutes ago. Now I'm patiently AWAITING its arrival.
Jan 19 05:11:55 <LinuxHack3r> Firefox is now known as FireFox
Jan 19 05:12:05 <FireFox> hehe
Jan 19 05:12:15 * FireFox is really b-man
Jan 19 05:12:25 <Proteous> sure sure
Jan 19 05:12:45 <FireFox> :)
Jan 19 05:13:22 <LinuxHack3r> So these things really get that good battery life Mousey sisto?
Jan 19 05:13:52 <Mousey> depends
Jan 19 05:14:24 <Mousey> i can go thru a charge in 8 hour or 4-5 days, depending
Jan 19 05:14:32 <LinuxHack3r> at least that many? that's good, I think.
Jan 19 05:14:38 <sisto> i was just reading that...
Jan 19 05:14:56 <sisto> it said it depends on the usage
Jan 19 05:15:12 <LinuxHack3r> sisto: 800x400. That's good...I think.
Jan 19 05:15:30 <Mousey> 800x480
Jan 19 05:15:40 <Mousey> compare it to the ipod touch
Jan 19 05:15:58 <sisto> 480x320?
Jan 19 05:16:18 <LinuxHack3r> I think so. So it's really good. android and mac os leapard on 810. That's odd.
Jan 19 05:16:39 <sisto> mac os? that's impossible isn't it?
Jan 19 05:16:54 <Mousey> i tried android on mine.. unimpressed
Jan 19 05:16:57 <LinuxHack3r> dunno...
Jan 19 05:17:19 <LinuxHack3r> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smImzo6qCQ4&feature=related
Jan 19 05:17:42 <LinuxHack3r> But I would certainly think so.
Jan 19 05:17:47 <Mousey> i call shenanigans
Jan 19 05:17:55 <LinuxHack3r> My guess is a themed linux?
Jan 19 05:18:27 <Mousey> vnc?
Jan 19 05:18:27 <greenmanspirit_> i dont have my broom for shenanigans
Jan 19 05:18:46 <Mousey> black borders on each side?
Jan 19 05:18:49 <Mousey> VNC!
Jan 19 05:19:13 <LinuxHack3r> Would it really be able to do that?
Jan 19 05:19:23 <sisto> you can get ubuntu or debian on it though
Jan 19 05:19:25 <Mousey> oh, and no hardware acceleration on the n810? total fakery
Jan 19 05:19:39 <Mousey> yah, there's some debian (read: deblet) heads in here
Jan 19 05:19:42 <sisto> mac os on arm?
Jan 19 05:19:48 <Mousey> but that dude is faking the fake
Jan 19 05:19:53 <Mousey> it's gotta be vnc
Jan 19 05:20:40 <FireFox> b-man
Jan 19 05:20:57 <sisto> is b-man for brian?
Jan 19 05:21:25 <b-man> b-man or brian
Jan 19 05:21:54 <b-man> (forgot to put /nick ;p)
Jan 19 05:22:32 <LinuxHack3r> So what's this thing come with?
Jan 19 05:22:39 <Mousey> ?
Jan 19 05:22:45 <Mousey> it comes with INTERNETS!
Jan 19 05:23:24 <LinuxHack3r> Mousey: headphones, chargers, stylus, some sorta small case?
Jan 19 05:23:32 <Mousey> oy
Jan 19 05:23:35 <Mousey> that's about right
Jan 19 05:23:40 <Mousey> no usb-charging
Jan 19 05:23:44 <Mousey> another popular gripe
Jan 19 05:23:46 <b-man> sisto, how did you know my name btw? :)
Jan 19 05:23:47 <Mousey> but i don't care
Jan 19 05:24:07 <LinuxHack3r> Mousey: so you gotta plug it up to teh wall?
Jan 19 05:24:09 <sisto> there's a b-man on extra life radio
Jan 19 05:24:10 <Mousey> LinuxHack3r: it's a standard nokia battery, and a standard $12 charger you can get anywhere
Jan 19 05:24:13 <sisto> and his name is brian
Jan 19 05:24:28 <b-man> ??? 0_o
Jan 19 05:24:46 <sisto> http://www.myextralife.com/?page_id=5954
Jan 19 05:25:00 <Mousey> >_>
Jan 19 05:25:12 <LinuxHack3r> Mousey: but it *should come with a charger, right?
Jan 19 05:25:20 * Mousey makes a note, all b-men are brians
Jan 19 05:25:34 <Mousey> LinuxHack3r: a wall one yea.. i'm yet to find one that charges a standalone batter
Jan 19 05:25:35 <Mousey> y
Jan 19 05:25:37 <b-man> lol
Jan 19 05:25:40 <Mousey> but i've never looked either
Jan 19 05:26:11 <LinuxHack3r> Mousey: Oh. Ok. I think I'm going to get off. Perhaps I'll have an email sitting in my inbox either tommorow or the next day explaining to me what is going on.
Jan 19 05:26:13 <Mousey> i'll look for one when i go to buy my second/additional battery. i figure the longer i wait, the more likely it'll be to exist
Jan 19 05:26:39 <Mousey> yah, all we're gonna do here is tell you how good the sex is, and all you get to do is watch
Jan 19 05:26:42 <Mousey> that's no fun
Jan 19 05:26:44 <LinuxHack3r> One last question though, if a case is nessessary, where should I get one? which model?
Jan 19 05:26:47 <Mousey> (unless that's your thing)
Jan 19 05:26:59 <Mousey> i donno. comes with a nice, easy-to-lose leather one
Jan 19 05:27:06 <Mousey> and by nice i mean, good enough
Jan 19 05:27:27 <LinuxHack3r> so it doesn't scratch up unless you try to?
Jan 19 05:29:13 * b-man is thinking of changing his offuFireFox
Jan 19 05:29:29 <b-man> ahhh!!! stupid keyboard!!
Jan 19 05:30:14 <sisto> i read it's outside is made of brushed metal so it shouldn't be very easy to scratch
Jan 19 05:30:31 <sisto> the screen is probably another story
Jan 19 05:30:39 <LinuxHack3r> who knows..just don't drop it.
Jan 19 05:34:13 * b-man is thinking of changing his offical nickname to IceFox... sounds cooler
Jan 19 06:46:53 <slonopotamus> yee-ha!
Jan 19 06:46:56 <slonopotamus> 0-day warez!
Jan 19 06:47:11 <slonopotamus> hot! fresh! gentoo chroot on n8x0!
Jan 19 06:47:13 <slonopotamus> http://slonopotamus.org/gentoo-on-n8x0
Jan 19 06:47:15 <slonopotamus> ;)
Jan 19 06:47:58 <Meiz_n810> heh
Jan 19 06:48:28 <Meiz_n810> is it better than debian based o-ses??
Jan 19 06:49:03 <slonopotamus> it depends ;)
Jan 19 06:49:05 <Meiz_n810> i mean is it faster?
Jan 19 06:49:20 <Meiz_n810> concrats btw :P
Jan 19 06:49:26 <slonopotamus> i'll be happy to run any benchmarks you'll provide ;)
Jan 19 06:49:56 <slonopotamus> it should be faster because it uses all available cpu-specific optimizations
Jan 19 06:50:03 <slonopotamus> and newer gcc
Jan 19 06:50:11 <Mousey> uh
Jan 19 06:50:51 <slonopotamus> however gentoo has its specifics
Jan 19 06:51:09 <slonopotamus> the most important one is source-based package manager
Jan 19 06:51:17 <Mousey> and "emerge upgrade" is gonna get old on a 400MHz proc
Jan 19 06:51:19 <Mousey> ^_^
Jan 19 06:52:04 <slonopotamus> hmm
Jan 19 06:52:07 <slonopotamus> Mousey
Jan 19 06:52:11 <Mousey> slonopotamus:
Jan 19 06:52:35 <Mousey> OS WARS!!!
Jan 19 06:52:44 <slonopotamus> take your maemo and upgrade libc to latest release. i'll count how long it will take.
Jan 19 06:52:45 * Mousey ignites flamethrower!
Jan 19 06:53:06 <Mousey> oh yea? you'll never recoup in optimizations what you spend in compile time!
Jan 19 06:53:19 <Mousey> ^_^
Jan 19 06:53:25 * Mousey readies for next volly
Jan 19 06:53:49 <slonopotamus> hehe ;) i can configure distcc with faster machines
Jan 19 06:54:04 <Mousey> ehe, my distcc machines are too busy transcoding movies for maemo!
Jan 19 06:54:11 * Mousey reloads!
Jan 19 06:54:33 <slonopotamus> hmm... i'm watching movies without transcoding thanks to my optimizations ;)
Jan 19 06:55:45 <sisto> lol
Jan 19 06:56:48 <slonopotamus> anyway. now i have access to tons of software from gentoo repos. and i don't have to hack'n'repackage for maemo
Jan 19 06:57:01 <slonopotamus> maybe you don't need that. i do.
Jan 19 06:57:37 <sisto> strike 2?
Jan 19 06:57:56 <sisto> Mousey: ?
Jan 19 06:58:06 <Mousey> oh, sory, was in another channel
Jan 19 06:59:20 <Mousey> bah, you win. gentoo rulez over maemo. emerge update every day, and keep that distcc farm going, it's all worth it, i'm sure
Jan 19 07:01:09 <sisto> boring
Jan 19 07:01:23 <slonopotamus> :)
Jan 19 07:01:36 <pupnik_> you do not have a faster version of mplayer
Jan 19 07:02:23 <pupnik_> and typical movies do not play back at full fps on a N8x0
Jan 19 07:02:37 <slonopotamus> pupnik_, i don't ;) actually maemo mplayer is fast enough to play regular 700mb/1.4gb avi movie
Jan 19 07:02:59 <slonopotamus> at least with 'performance' governor
Jan 19 07:03:49 <slonopotamus> Mousey, you don't update maemo every day. because there are no updates :)
Jan 19 07:04:00 <Mousey> depends what you install
Jan 19 07:04:06 <Mousey> and what's so bad about no updates?
Jan 19 07:04:23 <Mousey> no updates == less work == longer device/flash ram lifetime
Jan 19 07:04:26 <slonopotamus> you don't have to update gentoo in that case
Jan 19 07:04:30 <Mousey> hahahaha
Jan 19 07:04:34 <Mousey> that's a good one =)
Jan 19 07:05:27 <slonopotamus> i wonder why maemo has so much outdated kernel
Jan 19 07:05:32 <Mousey> pupnik_: the video card won't do better than 25fps anyway, who cares how optimized mplayer is?
Jan 19 07:05:59 <pupnik_> movies are still 24fps
Jan 19 07:06:12 <Mousey> i donno what movies you watch
Jan 19 07:07:21 <Mousey> i use liqbase to change my cpu performance
Jan 19 07:08:05 <Mousey> wow "power save" is really slow
Jan 19 07:10:55 <slonopotamus> so? nobody is happy? :(
Jan 19 07:11:09 <Mousey> how do i change my cpufreq from the command line?
Jan 19 07:11:19 * Mousey search for a /sys directory
Jan 19 07:12:27 <Mousey> i wonder how the tablet would handle "cat mem > /sys/power/state"
Jan 19 07:12:47 <Mousey> will i brick it? or will it manifest AWESOME ACPI GOODNESS
Jan 19 07:12:58 <slonopotamus> echo performance > /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_governor
Jan 19 07:13:11 <slonopotamus> try ;)
Jan 19 07:16:25 <Mousey> ah ha!
Jan 19 07:16:32 * Mousey cats it instead
Jan 19 07:16:55 <slonopotamus> hm
Jan 19 07:16:59 <slonopotamus> why cat?
Jan 19 07:17:00 <slonopotamus> echo
Jan 19 07:17:08 <Mousey> cat!
Jan 19 07:17:15 <slonopotamus> echo
Jan 19 07:17:30 <Mousey> cat!
Jan 19 07:17:37 <slonopotamus> cat mem == read from file named 'mem'. i don't think you have it
Jan 19 07:17:46 <Mousey> oh, what i really want is scaling_available_governors
Jan 19 07:17:52 * Mousey cats that instead
Jan 19 07:17:59 <slonopotamus> ok. first do echo 'mem' > mem ;) then cat it
Jan 19 07:18:23 <Mousey> there is no mem in this directory
Jan 19 07:18:28 <Mousey> silly rabbit
Jan 19 07:18:46 <Mousey> i wonder what the "null" cpu governer is
Jan 19 07:19:01 <slonopotamus> hehe
Jan 19 07:19:05 * Mousey echos "conservative" into scaling_governer
Jan 19 07:19:41 <Mousey> yay!
Jan 19 07:19:45 <Mousey> i <3 conservative
Jan 19 07:20:26 <slonopotamus> null will do nothing
Jan 19 07:20:38 <Mousey> screw bursty spikes pegging my cpu in ondemand.. if u want cycles, you gotta WORK for 'rm
Jan 19 07:20:40 <Mousey> 'em, even
Jan 19 07:21:01 <slonopotamus> you may still change cpu freq while using null governor
Jan 19 07:22:19 <slonopotamus> null == dear kernel, do not control cpu speed, i'll do that myself.
Jan 19 07:28:10 <Mousey> a girl?
Jan 19 07:28:12 <Mousey> on MY internets?
Jan 19 07:28:21 * Mousey suspects FBI agents
Jan 19 07:29:46 <Mousey> slonopotamus: cat before you echo.. it's look before you leap
Jan 19 07:30:29 <Mousey> aah, null == userdefined
Jan 19 07:30:42 <Mousey> i should have guess that by a lack of userdefined
Jan 19 07:36:25 * slonopotamus posted announce on itt
Jan 19 07:41:06 <slonopotamus> have anyone ever seed fauxmight online? ;)
Jan 19 07:41:25 <qwerty12> ~fauxmight
Jan 19 07:41:28 <qwerty12> ~seen fauxmight
Jan 19 07:41:42 * qwerty12 then remembers that infobot has disappeared...
Jan 19 07:49:21 <slonopotamus> btw
Jan 19 07:49:44 <slonopotamus> anyone has java on arm? not jalimo, but full jdk?
Jan 19 07:52:51 <slonopotamus> hmm... debian says it has openjdk for armel
Jan 19 08:14:03 <milos_> Can someone recomend shop for buying n810? It needs to ship it to Bosnia
Jan 19 08:19:29 <Khertan> Hello !
Jan 19 08:20:41 <slonopotamus> hi
Jan 19 08:21:01 <slonopotamus> Khertan, why don't you put pygtkeditor in maemo-extras?
Jan 19 08:21:14 <Khertan> because i can't get gtksourceview
Jan 19 08:21:21 <Khertan> in maemo-extras
Jan 19 08:21:22 <slonopotamus> why you can't?
Jan 19 08:21:35 <Khertan> it s a c lib
Jan 19 08:21:40 <slonopotamus> and so what?
Jan 19 08:21:44 <Khertan> and i m not able to compile and my nit
Jan 19 08:21:59 <Khertan> and don't have enought time to do it on my computer at home
Jan 19 08:22:04 <slonopotamus> i see
Jan 19 08:22:12 <Khertan> s/and my nit/on my nit
Jan 19 08:22:43 <Khertan> but if you can compile it on scratchbox with his python binding i could push pygtkeitor in extras
Jan 19 08:27:20 <aquatix> morning all
Jan 19 08:29:32 <Khertan> morning aquatix
Jan 19 09:03:46 <sven-tek> Good morning
Jan 19 09:04:47 <sven-tek> When i hit my N800's mode button, there used to be a offline-mode menu entry. But since one or two days this one is gone. There is only lock screen, lock device and shutdown.
Jan 19 09:04:57 <sven-tek> any idea where this comes from?
Jan 19 09:05:41 <pupnik_> nope
Jan 19 09:05:55 <MaceN800> hello
Jan 19 09:06:10 <MaceN800> awesome that i found the fix for this repeating bt keyboard stuff
Jan 19 09:06:27 <MaceN800> although it is still kind of  a pain
Jan 19 09:06:53 <MaceN800> i think i need to tweak it a bit..but at least it doesn't start doing it off the bat
Jan 19 09:18:01 <Stskeeps> morning
Jan 19 09:18:17 <X-Fade> Morning..
Jan 19 09:18:31 <MaceN800> hey
Jan 19 09:18:32 <slonopotamus> hi, Stskeeps
Jan 19 09:18:41 <X-Fade> Stskeeps: I saw your PM after I approved the project ;)
Jan 19 09:19:02 <Stskeeps> hehe, yeah, my fault
Jan 19 09:19:35 <Stskeeps> when the form came back after an error it had magically switched back to SVN :)
Jan 19 09:20:45 <Khertan> Hi x-fade, stsjeeos and MaceN800
Jan 19 09:20:52 <Khertan> stskeeps :)
Jan 19 09:20:54 <X-Fade> I'll ask Ferenc to change it to GIT. As there seems to be no way to switch in my admin interface ;)
Jan 19 09:20:55 <Khertan> sorry
Jan 19 09:21:01 <X-Fade> Hi Khertan
Jan 19 09:21:15 <Khertan> wie geht's ?
Jan 19 09:21:28 <Stskeeps> X-Fade: hehe, fine :) i've added the ideas for multiple repositories per user and per-user repositories to the ggit bugtracker
Jan 19 09:21:37 <Stskeeps> (git doesn't support subtree checkout, so)
Jan 19 09:21:44 <Stskeeps> tigert: morning - good job on plankton :)
Jan 19 09:22:01 <tigert> Stskeeps: thanks :)
Jan 19 09:22:02 <MaceN800> ah well... time to go continue watching boston legal
Jan 19 09:22:05 <MaceN800> great show
Jan 19 09:22:06 <MaceN800> heh
Jan 19 09:22:07 <tigert> that was a long ago :)
Jan 19 09:22:26 <Stskeeps> hehe, people still use it, but it has been used to create many themes :)
Jan 19 09:23:00 <X-Fade> And there are even new themes based on plankton ;)
Jan 19 09:24:23 * Stskeeps is still most impressed with hildon-theme-liberty (http://zenvoid.org/tmp/screenshot3.png)
Jan 19 09:25:31 <X-Fade> Too bad we have 16bit displays, so there is banding in gradients :(
Jan 19 09:25:32 * Khertan doesn't know this theme
Jan 19 09:26:04 <Stskeeps> Khertan: new theme zenvoid made for his custom chinook distribution long ago, - it's now in use in Mer
Jan 19 09:26:48 <Stskeeps> compared to the nokian themes, it's actually CC :)
Jan 19 09:27:49 <Khertan> stskeeps : great ...
Jan 19 09:27:57 <Khertan> just a question about mer ...
Jan 19 09:28:14 <Stskeeps> we don't have pygtk working yet :( :P
Jan 19 09:28:18 <Khertan> does bluetooth session with a phone work ?
Jan 19 09:28:22 <Khertan> what ? no pygtk ?
Jan 19 09:28:23 <Stskeeps> not yet
Jan 19 09:28:34 <Khertan> hum ... i can't use it so :)
Jan 19 09:28:38 <Stskeeps> yeah, -yet- :)
Jan 19 09:28:46 <Stskeeps> there's a problem with pygtk cos it's for gtk 2.14 and we have 2.12 :)
Jan 19 09:28:48 <Khertan> yep ... i ll wait a bit :)
Jan 19 09:28:52 <Stskeeps> i'll work on it after my exams
Jan 19 09:29:13 <Khertan> 2.12 ? the same as maemo diablo right ?
Jan 19 09:29:26 <Stskeeps> nop, maemo fremantle
Jan 19 09:29:29 <Stskeeps> diablo is 2.10
Jan 19 09:29:34 <Khertan> ouch ...
Jan 19 09:29:53 <Khertan> ok now i understand why you can't use the pygtk from pymaemo
Jan 19 09:30:04 <Stskeeps> well
Jan 19 09:30:08 <Stskeeps> also, pymaemo is a mess :)
Jan 19 09:30:13 <Stskeeps> from a distribution point of view
Jan 19 09:30:23 <Stskeeps> the package names don't match, the packages are badly written in some cases, etc
Jan 19 09:30:35 <Khertan> stskeep i agree
Jan 19 09:30:35 <Stskeeps> we're going to look at a more lasting solution
Jan 19 09:31:15 <Stskeeps> which may mean that some debian packages (not python packages) may be renamed
Jan 19 09:31:36 <Stskeeps> mer is a bit of spring cleaning in the maemo ecosystem, so :P
Jan 19 09:32:03 <lcuk> rocket up the backside!
Jan 19 09:32:14 <johnx_> lcuk, thanks, I'll pass
Jan 19 09:32:18 <johnx_> hey Stskeeps
Jan 19 09:32:27 <Stskeeps> morning johnx
Jan 19 09:32:37 <lcuk> gandalf: you cannot pass!
Jan 19 09:33:25 <johnx> lcuk, says I to the proffered rocket
Jan 19 09:36:24 <lcuk> heh
Jan 19 09:37:10 <Stskeeps> johnx: i got HAM to build yesterday btw, think jaffa continued with it
Jan 19 09:39:42 <johnx> wow. bet it's not really showing many packages :)
Jan 19 09:39:59 <Stskeeps> no, but red pill mode is certainly like the feeling in the matrix..
Jan 19 09:41:08 <Meiz_n810> guys at #ubuntu-mobile wont answer my questitions :(
Jan 19 09:41:15 <Meiz_n810> or they don't know
Jan 19 09:41:17 <johnx> Meiz_n810, what's your question?
Jan 19 09:41:33 <Stskeeps> Meiz_n810: i'm willing to bet most UME stuff is actually from moblin
Jan 19 09:41:34 <Meiz_n810> how to include statusbar into panel..
Jan 19 09:41:36 <johnx> or is it in my scrollback?
Jan 19 09:42:06 <Meiz_n810> johnx: saw http://trac.tspre.org/meiz/marquee/
Jan 19 09:42:09 <johnx> Meiz_n810, it's separate from panel. look in your desktop.conf and set aside a place for it
Jan 19 09:42:18 <Meiz_n810> as far as i can get...
Jan 19 09:42:47 <Meiz_n810> johnx: i copied conf-files from ubuntu-mobile
Jan 19 09:43:00 <johnx> that's a start! is this with ubuntu's hildon or did you get marquee plugins to build for mer?
Jan 19 09:43:13 <GeneralAntilles> X-Fade, reply-to munging seems to be inconsistent between -community and -users/-developers.
Jan 19 09:43:29 <Meiz_n810> johnx: i installed ubuntus marquee
Jan 19 09:43:45 <X-Fade> Stskeeps: Git should now be available for you..
Jan 19 09:43:49 <Stskeeps> X-Fade: thanks!
Jan 19 09:43:53 <johnx> Meiz_n810, did you let ubuntu's libhildon overwrite mer's?
Jan 19 09:43:56 <johnx> or did you force depends?
Jan 19 09:43:58 <Meiz_n810> yep
Jan 19 09:44:06 <Meiz_n810> overwrite only
Jan 19 09:44:15 <X-Fade> GeneralAntilles: Yeah, I have noticed that too before..
Jan 19 09:44:18 <Meiz_n810> but i can reinstall the mer's
Jan 19 09:44:19 <Stskeeps> X-Fade: we'll probably wait for the two wishlist items to be fullfilled before moving source from launchpad to garage, but it's a start :)
Jan 19 09:44:33 <X-Fade> GeneralAntilles: It could really nead some cleanup/alignment ;)
Jan 19 09:44:44 <johnx> Meiz_n810, I'd be very curious to know what happens when you reinstall mer's hildon (or try it with force-depends instead of force-overwrite)
Jan 19 09:45:25 <Meiz_n810> johnx: i reinstall the mer's package
Jan 19 09:46:33 <Stskeeps> johnx: you had SDK on your linux box btw?
Jan 19 09:46:34 <timeless> so can i install mer on chinook? :)
Jan 19 09:46:51 <zenvoid> a friend has got the domain mamoe.org, hehe :-)
Jan 19 09:46:53 <Stskeeps> timeless: yeah, should work fine, clone-to-SD not so easily
Jan 19 09:47:05 <timeless> what about "older" ? :)
Jan 19 09:47:07 <Stskeeps> zenvoid: hehe, probably too close trademark wise
Jan 19 09:47:29 <johnx> Stskeeps, I do have mer sdk, but I think I might have mucked it up...
Jan 19 09:47:38 <timeless> oh yeah, can i run it on my 770?
Jan 19 09:47:39 <Stskeeps> timeless: we're working on 770 port, but we have some trouble with sapwood mucking up / the processor
Jan 19 09:47:50 <Stskeeps> where the stack gets corrupted in wonderful ways
Jan 19 09:48:02 <timeless> (my 770 is currently on loan, as a e61 charger oddly enough, but ...)
Jan 19 09:48:06 <timeless> yum
Jan 19 09:48:30 <johnx> heh, but we can't get mer running on your e61 (get asked that sometimes)
Jan 19 09:48:38 <timeless> lol
Jan 19 09:48:41 <timeless> not my e61
Jan 19 09:48:44 <timeless> i have an e61i
Jan 19 09:48:53 <timeless> a friend's charger port snapped
Jan 19 09:49:04 <johnx> ah an e61i, then it should be no problem
Jan 19 09:49:25 <timeless> which i think might be worse than what happened to mine (plug snapped off inside the port)
Jan 19 09:49:34 <timeless> heh
Jan 19 09:49:42 <X-Fade> timeless: Just solder some wires ;)
Jan 19 09:49:52 <timeless> i'm a software guy!
Jan 19 09:50:16 <timeless> (ok, it's true, i did replace the screen on my 770, but, pretend i'd never do such a thing!)
Jan 19 09:50:47 <Stskeeps> timeless: basically what we're seeing on 770 is some strange things happening when going from signed to unsigned integers, where it suddenly starts putting values in places in structures it shouldn't have :P
Jan 19 09:50:49 <johnx> luckily the tip of my charger cable just broke, thus leaving me to mac guyver something...
Jan 19 09:50:58 <timeless> ouch
Jan 19 09:51:07 <Stskeeps> timeless: and we see it consistently on armv5 archs (zaurus, 770)
Jan 19 09:51:22 <timeless> have you talked to eero?
Jan 19 09:51:27 <johnx> also saw it at first on a pxa270 zaurus (armv5). but it seems to be slightly different...
Jan 19 09:51:36 <Stskeeps> johnx: similar thing happening but different consequences
Jan 19 09:51:43 <johnx> ah, gotcha
Jan 19 09:51:48 <johnx> out of my depth :)
Jan 19 09:52:03 <timeless> johnx: thankfully i have quite a few charging cables
Jan 19 09:52:09 <timeless> so losing a cable isn't such a problem
Jan 19 09:52:14 <Stskeeps> timeless: not yet, but consequence is https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3939 , as it doesn't deal well with malformed headers :)
Jan 19 09:52:19 <timeless> losing a charging port otoh is a bit of a pain
Jan 19 09:52:54 <johnx> timeless, my current country of residence is somewhat deficient in Nokia produkt
Jan 19 09:54:21 <Stskeeps> timeless: but if you can live without sapwood stuff and disable it, it actually works :P (some things like wifi modules and such still needs to be compiled)
Jan 19 09:54:37 <Stskeeps> right, exam reading time
Jan 19 09:54:47 <timeless> johnx: you want someone to ship you a device?
Jan 19 09:54:55 <timeless> i accept paypal and can arrange for transport
Jan 19 09:55:20 <timeless> or are you complaining that we don't list it in regional settings
Jan 19 09:55:24 <timeless> in which case.. bah
Jan 19 09:55:29 <johnx> nah, only thing I needed a charger...and I managed to construct something that plugs into AC 100V at one end and an N800 at the other end
Jan 19 09:55:48 <timeless> 100v instead of 120v?
Jan 19 09:56:30 * timeless sighs
Jan 19 09:56:34 <timeless> java killed my browser
Jan 19 09:57:09 <Khertan> At home it should be 230V, i live in france, but many times a day ... power voltage drop down under 180V
Jan 19 09:57:23 <timeless> youch
Jan 19 09:57:32 <Stskeeps> Khertan: i really dread for the day i'll move to poland with my gf and having to deal with their power system..
Jan 19 09:57:34 <Khertan> yep ... living in very small town
Jan 19 09:57:36 <johnx> yeah, 100V (50Hz or 60Hz depending on what part of the island), US style outlet without the 3rd ground plug. just saying it wasn't easy to track down a charger
Jan 19 09:58:19 <Khertan> 50 or 60hz ... should be funny with console :)
Jan 19 09:58:46 <timeless> which japanese island is htis?
Jan 19 09:58:53 <Khertan> i imagine one done for 50hz running at 60hz ... it will be hard to finish games :)
Jan 19 09:58:53 <johnx> timeless, the big one :)
Jan 19 09:58:59 <timeless> heh
Jan 19 09:59:21 <Khertan> like the modification i have made on my dreamcast just to speed up a bit soul calibur
Jan 19 09:59:21 <timeless> yeah i do know about japan / outlets
Jan 19 09:59:22 <Khertan> :)
Jan 19 10:00:06 <Stskeeps> johnx: maybe we should consider dropbear in standard image instead of openssh-server
Jan 19 10:00:08 <johnx> Khertan, also works on alarm clocks you bring over from the states...
Jan 19 10:00:22 <Khertan> lol
Jan 19 10:00:32 <Khertan> a bit less funny
Jan 19 10:00:44 <johnx> Khertan, oh, it was funny :) but just once
Jan 19 10:01:02 <johnx> Stskeeps, hmm, how much memory is openssh eating?
Jan 19 10:01:09 <Khertan> funny only for the guy which see you one hour before at the office :)
Jan 19 10:01:10 <Stskeeps> johnx: no clue, but i'm sure dropbear does less :P
Jan 19 10:01:53 <Stskeeps> someone -really- needs to take a hard bashing to most interesting applications going into Extras
Jan 19 10:02:01 <Stskeeps> i hardly use the other categories
Jan 19 10:02:01 <johnx> Khertan, well, it ran at 5/6 speed...so yeah, my wife ended up a little late to work that day
Jan 19 10:02:21 <Khertan> in this way this is not a prob :)
Jan 19 10:03:17 <Khertan> stskeeps : what you mean by "hard bashing to most interesting applications"
Jan 19 10:03:17 <Khertan> ?
Jan 19 10:03:54 * GeneralAntilles agrees with Khertan.
Jan 19 10:03:59 <Stskeeps> Khertan: as in that the categories system is silly that 90% end up in Extras, and 10% in the other ones :P maemo-select-location should be mandatory
Jan 19 10:04:11 <GeneralAntilles> Oh, that.
Jan 19 10:04:22 <GeneralAntilles> Probably Fremantle.
Jan 19 10:04:25 <Stskeeps> and they shouldn't suggest Extras initially
Jan 19 10:04:34 <Jaffa> Stskeeps: I didn't get very far with HAM. Was getting segfaults when starting hildon-desktop. Worked out I was trying to run x86 on x86_64
Jan 19 10:04:34 <GeneralAntilles> Nokia is supposedly considering the issue
Jan 19 10:04:39 <GeneralAntilles> but I haven't heard more.
Jan 19 10:04:45 <Stskeeps> Jaffa: yeah, that's possible
Jan 19 10:04:46 <Khertan> i don't like having to select location while install
Jan 19 10:04:53 <Jaffa> Me neither
Jan 19 10:04:59 <Khertan> as when i do an apt-get install of many applications
Jan 19 10:05:04 <Khertan> it block the process
Jan 19 10:05:12 <Khertan> s/it/it s
Jan 19 10:05:28 <Khertan> and most of app which use it ... ask again at each update
Jan 19 10:05:32 <johnx> they at least need to do it as a preconfigure step
Jan 19 10:05:32 <Jaffa> I hate it. Espeically if it's a big download, there'll be a blocking dialogue some arbitrary time later
Jan 19 10:05:37 <GeneralAntilles> https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3822
Jan 19 10:05:56 <timeless> yeah
Jan 19 10:05:58 <Jaffa> and, as khertan says, it just looks like apt-get (via SSH) has hung
Jan 19 10:06:04 <timeless> you don't really want the menu chooser
Jan 19 10:06:07 <timeless> that's a disaster
Jan 19 10:06:34 <johnx> timeless, the app menu as a whole?
Jan 19 10:06:36 <GeneralAntilles> If only Organize for the application menu weren't so broken.
Jan 19 10:06:52 <Khertan> gan ?
Jan 19 10:06:56 <Khertan> it s not broken ?
Jan 19 10:07:03 <timeless> i haven't seen a spec for organize
Jan 19 10:07:07 <timeless> i'm not sure it exists
Jan 19 10:07:11 <GeneralAntilles> Khertan, the drag'n'drop success rate is frequently bellow 50%
Jan 19 10:07:19 <timeless> i mean maemo-select-location is a disaster
Jan 19 10:07:22 <GeneralAntilles> Would there be a way for the script to decide whether it's being called from h-a-m or apt?
Jan 19 10:07:41 <timeless> it could check if there's a tty i suppose
Jan 19 10:07:42 <Jaffa> GeneralAntilles: yeah, should be
Jan 19 10:07:52 <timeless> but that's an awful kuldge
Jan 19 10:07:57 <Jaffa> timeless: or check parent pids
Jan 19 10:08:11 <timeless> what happens if the parent pid doesn't match what you know?
Jan 19 10:08:15 <GeneralAntilles> Ideally, though, the repository categories will match up against the application menu categories well enough that applications can just decide where they should go.
Jan 19 10:08:36 <GeneralAntilles> timeless, I say we trigger a watchdog reboot and show an image of a tablet with a broken screen.
Jan 19 10:08:38 <Jaffa> Indeed. I don't choose every time I install something on Ubuuntu
Jan 19 10:09:34 <timeless> no need
Jan 19 10:09:38 <GeneralAntilles> I prefer wazd's mockup for organizing within the menu to having a separate settings dialog hidden 3 dialogs deep in Control Panel.
Jan 19 10:09:48 <timeless> the internal fremantle builds already show nokia boot screen images constantly
Jan 19 10:09:52 <timeless> they're semi fake
Jan 19 10:09:59 <timeless> (only some part of the watchdog'd set died)
Jan 19 10:10:06 <Jaffa> wazd needs to be made more aware of #3822. I pointed out the categories, but his recent mockups are showing a few top-level categories
Jan 19 10:10:08 <timeless> so, yeah, that's implemented :)
Jan 19 10:10:52 <timeless> i'm not really sure what's wanted
Jan 19 10:10:58 <GeneralAntilles> roope, ping?
Jan 19 10:11:02 <timeless> but do most people agree that DnD doesn't actually work?
Jan 19 10:11:02 <Jaffa> timeless: fremantle looking good?
Jan 19 10:11:15 * Jaffa has rarely tried "Organise"
Jan 19 10:11:19 <timeless> jaffa: all i see are nokia boot logos
Jan 19 10:11:29 <timeless> and then black screens for 15-30s at a time
Jan 19 10:11:39 <timeless> if you consider that good, then yeah, we're in great shape
Jan 19 10:11:55 <johnx> timeless, yes. even better than 'not work' it gives positive feedback (highlighting the destination) *then* doesn't work
Jan 19 10:11:55 <Jaffa> *cough*
Jan 19 10:12:18 <johnx> timeless, it's ok, there's plenty of time to rebase on mer
Jan 19 10:12:26 <GeneralAntilles> Anybody got a link handy to yerga's widget screenshots?
Jan 19 10:12:38 <Stskeeps> http://share.ovi.com/channel/yerga.Hildonwidgets
Jan 19 10:12:47 <timeless> johnx: oh, i've used the organise thing
Jan 19 10:12:55 <GeneralAntilles> timeless, that link.
Jan 19 10:12:55 <timeless> i've probably even filed internal bugs about it
Jan 19 10:13:03 <timeless> ok, lemme find a working web browser
Jan 19 10:13:06 * timeless fired the last one
Jan 19 10:13:45 <timeless> ok, so we haven't released anything
Jan 19 10:14:06 * Khertan have a performance problem with his new mCalendar UI ...
Jan 19 10:14:12 <timeless> oh, not true
Jan 19 10:14:17 <timeless> we did actually release something relevant
Jan 19 10:14:24 * timeless grumbles
Jan 19 10:14:29 <timeless> is there a better viewer?
Jan 19 10:14:34 <timeless> something picasa-esque?
Jan 19 10:15:00 <Khertan> i have try to display a week with seven gtk.TreeView ... but it s really slow :)
Jan 19 10:15:44 <johnx> ah, so the dialog windows are like that on purpose...
Jan 19 10:16:16 <Stskeeps> johnx: see, http://share.ovi.com/media/yerga.Hildonwidgets/yerga.11985 , it has icons! :P
Jan 19 10:16:22 <Stskeeps> (the arrow)
Jan 19 10:16:32 <johnx> Stskeeps, yeah, and different scrollbars...
Jan 19 10:16:44 <johnx> I think a theme rearrangement must have happened
Jan 19 10:16:47 <Stskeeps> the | ones?
Jan 19 10:16:52 <Stskeeps> it's there
Jan 19 10:16:58 <Stskeeps> you just dont see it immediately
Jan 19 10:18:14 <Stskeeps> which reminds me i should really put mer on my beagleboard at work..
Jan 19 10:18:25 <Stskeeps> not that i have any relevant input devices at this point
Jan 19 10:18:50 * timeless frowns
Jan 19 10:18:55 <timeless> are these widgets things nokia promised, or an interogation of known widget classes?
Jan 19 10:19:00 <timeless> oh brother
Jan 19 10:19:07 <Stskeeps> timeless: just whatever we got in fremantle sdk
Jan 19 10:19:12 <Stskeeps> that is, pre-alpha sd
Jan 19 10:19:12 <Stskeeps> k
Jan 19 10:19:16 <Stskeeps> which promised nothing about widgets
Jan 19 10:19:26 <timeless> so these 'apps' are things that were included in the sdk?
Jan 19 10:19:39 <Stskeeps> yeah, libhildon test stuff
Jan 19 10:19:42 <Stskeeps> afaik
Jan 19 10:19:47 <timeless> interesting
Jan 19 10:19:49 * timeless sighs
Jan 19 10:19:54 * timeless needs to chew out someone
Jan 19 10:20:06 <timeless> they don't understand how to use English (the language)
Jan 19 10:20:14 <timeless> and persist in totally butchering it
Jan 19 10:20:18 <timeless> it's really really annoying
Jan 19 10:20:25 <johnx> I never saw those little blue "pill shaped" scrollbars
Jan 19 10:20:37 <timeless> it's an iphone thing
Jan 19 10:20:45 <timeless> everyone loves to use them
Jan 19 10:20:49 <timeless> but they aren't scrollbars
Jan 19 10:20:53 <timeless> they're positional indicators
Jan 19 10:21:00 <timeless> you can't touch them
Jan 19 10:21:01 <K2> grrrr
Jan 19 10:21:10 <Stskeeps> well, there's missing localization strings (#4001) , so localization doesn't apply well :)
Jan 19 10:21:14 <timeless> if you want to go to the top or bottom of something
Jan 19 10:21:25 <timeless> stskeeps: i've filed bugs against the relevant spec before
Jan 19 10:21:35 <timeless> the people involved just don't speak the language
Jan 19 10:21:41 <timeless> and don't understand that it's important
Jan 19 10:21:56 <t_s_o> what language would that be?
Jan 19 10:22:08 <timeless> English
Jan 19 10:22:24 <timeless> if someone's about to ask you a question
Jan 19 10:22:28 <timeless> what should they say:
Jan 19 10:22:37 <timeless> "Yipper selector"
Jan 19 10:22:41 <timeless> "Select yipper"
Jan 19 10:23:07 <johnx> O_o
Jan 19 10:23:13 <timeless> http://share.ovi.com/media/yerga.Hildonwidgets/yerga.11966
Jan 19 10:23:15 <timeless> is the relevant widget
Jan 19 10:23:23 <timeless> and yes, i do want to tar+feather someone
Jan 19 10:24:22 <timeless> in dialogs, you're supposed to have titles indicating to the user what you want the user to do
Jan 19 10:24:25 <timeless> not naming the dialog
Jan 19 10:24:35 <timeless> 'this is a stupid dialog'
Jan 19 10:24:36 * Khertan_n810 is looking for an idea on how to display a week of events in mCalendar ...
Jan 19 10:24:38 <timeless> yes, that's quite true
Jan 19 10:24:46 <timeless> 1 week?
Jan 19 10:24:50 <Khertan_n810> yep
Jan 19 10:24:51 <timeless> 100 events?
Jan 19 10:25:01 <timeless> weekends?
Jan 19 10:25:08 <Khertan_n810> weekends include
Jan 19 10:25:27 <timeless> do you have an agenda view already?
Jan 19 10:25:28 <Khertan_n810> in a view which look like a week view in google agenda
Jan 19 10:25:44 <Khertan_n810> timeless > this is the problem ... it s too slow
Jan 19 10:25:52 <aquatix> Khertan_n810: look at how evolution or pimlico's dates do it?
Jan 19 10:26:00 <timeless> which view is too slow?
Jan 19 10:26:19 <Khertan_n810> timeless my own builded week view :)
Jan 19 10:26:52 <timeless> sorry, confused
Jan 19 10:26:59 <lcuk> Khertan_n810, i think you might have to custom draw it or something rather than defining gtk widgets (or perhaps its something your widgets are doing automatically which can be disabled - ie reflow layout?)
Jan 19 10:27:04 <timeless> you're trying for a 7 day view,, not an agenda view?
Jan 19 10:27:42 <Khertan_n810> what you mean by agenda view ?
Jan 19 10:27:53 <timeless> open calendar.google.com
Jan 19 10:28:03 <timeless> they have: day, week, month, 4 days, agenda
Jan 19 10:28:19 <timeless> agenda is a serialized list of upcoming events
Jan 19 10:28:30 <Khertan_n810> timeless : i ve already that
Jan 19 10:28:34 <timeless> ok
Jan 19 10:28:35 <Khertan_n810> this is what i use
Jan 19 10:28:38 <timeless> so you really want a 7 day view
Jan 19 10:28:48 <Khertan_n810> but many user want something else
Jan 19 10:28:50 <timeless> use a web browser :)
Jan 19 10:28:59 <Khertan_n810> timeless i would like
Jan 19 10:29:12 <Khertan_n810> this is something i think to avoid gtk
Jan 19 10:29:18 <Khertan_n810> and made my own display
Jan 19 10:29:29 <Khertan_n810> but how to catch event like click
Jan 19 10:29:48 <Khertan_n810> i would like to have a python code ... and html display :)
Jan 19 10:30:16 <Khertan_n810> this will easeall my dev ...
Jan 19 10:30:36 <Khertan_n810> as most of the time i lost it tryign to make a a usefull gtk ui
Jan 19 10:33:20 <timeless> gtk isn't really the answer for such a problem btw
Jan 19 10:33:27 <timeless> in theory clutter might help
Jan 19 10:33:34 <timeless> ubt you really want to *draw* shapes
Jan 19 10:33:40 <timeless> not overlap widgets
Jan 19 10:34:04 <timeless> your choices end up being a canvas or a canvas or a canvas
Jan 19 10:34:39 <Stskeeps> johnx: building h-a-m
Jan 19 10:34:47 <timeless> there's html:canvas, html style, qpainter, clutter, cairo
Jan 19 10:35:09 <johnx> good deal, looking at things to add to auto-startx and first-boot-wizard
Jan 19 10:35:14 <baaba> is there any way to make my own fiasco image for diablo?
Jan 19 10:35:35 <johnx> I wonder if the gtk frontend to package configuration plays nice with hildon
Jan 19 10:35:52 <johnx> baaba, so you want to make a customized image?
Jan 19 10:35:54 <baaba> basically i just have a customized rootfs and would like to replace the one from the nokia-provided fiasco image with it
Jan 19 10:36:11 <Stskeeps> baaba: i think there's a generator for it in mamona
Jan 19 10:36:20 <Stskeeps> but im not sure
Jan 19 10:36:21 <johnx> I believe it's possible. does the nokia flasher have a way to make a fiasco image?
Jan 19 10:36:26 <Stskeeps> FIASCO isn't "public knowledge" yet :P
Jan 19 10:36:29 <baaba> yeah i found that but it seems it only supports up to chinook
Jan 19 10:37:03 <Stskeeps> baaba: file a bug about it, they might be open for it
Jan 19 10:37:08 <Stskeeps> what is your intended use of it, btw?
Jan 19 10:37:12 <Stskeeps> just "imaging" or?
Jan 19 10:37:48 <baaba> i have a project with quite a few devices that need to have the same initial configuration
Jan 19 10:38:06 <johnx> http://www.nopcode.org/0xFFFF/
Jan 19 10:38:17 <Stskeeps> baaba: flash first the image, then the rootfs specifically
Jan 19 10:38:22 <baaba> so i'm just trying to minimize the constant cost of each flashing operation :P
Jan 19 10:38:24 <johnx> Stskeeps, seems to be public knowledge now :)
Jan 19 10:38:27 <Stskeeps> true
Jan 19 10:38:32 <baaba> yeah that's what i'm doing now
Jan 19 10:38:33 <Stskeeps> johnx: pancake made a comment on the diablo images
Jan 19 10:38:35 <Stskeeps> there's a change
Jan 19 10:38:42 <johnx> gack
Jan 19 10:39:39 <Stskeeps> oh that's a nasty phishing attempt
Jan 19 10:39:41 <Stskeeps> 'Protect your Visa card online with a personal password'
Jan 19 10:39:51 <Stskeeps> with verifiedbyvisa and all that
Jan 19 10:39:55 <Stskeeps> .. and then a gov.cn address
Jan 19 10:40:18 <baaba> protectvisa.gov.cn.nothingsuspicioushere.com? :P
Jan 19 10:40:31 <Stskeeps> baaba: i was kinda alerted by the gov.cn part
Jan 19 10:42:14 <w00t> Stskeeps: but the government of china LOVES to protect your visa
Jan 19 10:47:25 <Khertan_n810> ....
Jan 19 10:47:48 <Khertan_n810> goocanvas ... someone know it ?
Jan 19 10:48:35 <GeneralAntilles> johnx, Stskeeps, Nokia is still working to release the image builder. :P
Jan 19 10:48:44 <Stskeeps> k
Jan 19 10:50:10 <baaba> how complicated can something like that be anyway
Jan 19 10:50:22 <baaba> i mean it just packs a few images together and writes a small header, right?
Jan 19 10:50:24 <Khertan_n810> ouch ... i ve just see the date from pimlico source code to display event in a weekview ... they do all by hand
Jan 19 10:50:25 <Khertan_n810> ouch
Jan 19 10:50:30 <Stskeeps> baaba: in essense, yeah
Jan 19 10:50:37 <Stskeeps> (sp)
Jan 19 10:50:42 <baaba> essence
Jan 19 10:51:59 <Stskeeps> oh ffs
Jan 19 10:52:05 <Stskeeps> they changed nameservers at my uni today
Jan 19 10:52:11 <lcuk> Khertan_n810, :) like i said
Jan 19 10:52:24 <Khertan_n810> i ll not recreate the wheel
Jan 19 10:52:52 <lcuk> custom views and renderers and recreated in different systems every single day
Jan 19 10:53:19 <johnx> Stskeeps, did the muck it up?
Jan 19 10:53:21 <lcuk> from wxwidgets to qt to gtk to visual basic :)
Jan 19 10:53:56 <Stskeeps> johnx: magic changes in nameserver and not telling anyone about it
Jan 19 10:54:16 * Stskeeps goes fix the resolv.conf's
Jan 19 10:54:19 <johnx> lcuk, so what's your thought on qt vs gtk for ease of accomplishing what you want (irrespective of speed)
Jan 19 10:55:03 <lcuk> depends on language you wanna put it into, if your project is c - gtk is the natural choice
Jan 19 10:55:22 <lcuk> if you are just starting out and havent chosen a language yet, qt offers unrivalled polish
Jan 19 10:55:49 <Jake42> does N810 support mysql and php (as web server) ?
Jan 19 10:56:39 <Stskeeps> it's turing-complete..
Jan 19 10:56:40 <Stskeeps> :P
Jan 19 10:56:49 <Jake42> indeed
Jan 19 10:56:57 <Jake42> but I am searching
Jan 19 10:57:00 <Jake42> this for hours
Jan 19 10:57:10 <Jake42> but I counldn't find any good answer
Jan 19 10:57:10 <johnx> Jake42, yes. lookup lighttpd or nginx
Jan 19 10:57:13 <lcuk> why does your 810 need to be a server?
Jan 19 10:57:18 <Jake42> Johnx
Jan 19 10:57:31 <Jake42> ( lcuk its for a project)
Jan 19 10:57:32 <lcuk> mind you, we asked the same question to the maemo.org admins :D
Jan 19 10:57:43 <johnx> are you planning on just using it as a server or using it as a server and handheld computerat the same time?
Jan 19 10:57:46 * lcuk waves @ X-Fade 
Jan 19 10:57:51 <Jake42> lcuk ????
Jan 19 10:58:02 <Jake42> johnx man... I installed them
Jan 19 10:58:18 <Jake42> but when I access the localhost/test.php
Jan 19 10:58:26 <Jake42> I doesn't show the php logo
Jan 19 10:58:46 <Jake42> (I have already prepared the site and the base, but I can't use them on the phone)
Jan 19 10:59:38 <johnx> is the server running?
Jan 19 10:59:55 <johnx> can you try running it from the terminal so you can see its output?
Jan 19 11:01:34 <Jake42-2> it's me again, the server kicked me...
Jan 19 11:01:53 <johnx> ah, did you get my last message?
Jan 19 11:01:59 <Jake42-2> no...
Jan 19 11:02:04 <Stskeeps> johnx: it's really nice with Mer in a virtualbox
Jan 19 11:02:11 <johnx> <johnx> is the server running?
Jan 19 11:02:12 <johnx> <johnx> can you try running it from the terminal so you can see its output?
Jan 19 11:02:12 <Stskeeps> you can just boot it and apt-get straight
Jan 19 11:02:27 <Jake42-2> w8 a sec...
Jan 19 11:02:34 <Stskeeps> and when you test on tablet, it works there too :>
Jan 19 11:02:35 <Jake42-2> what do you mean?
Jan 19 11:02:55 <Jake42-2> I had installed the apache web server
Jan 19 11:02:59 <johnx> ah
Jan 19 11:03:09 <Jake42-2> from the repository of maemo and the mysql as well
Jan 19 11:03:16 <Jake42-2> (from the maemo.org)
Jan 19 11:03:30 <Jake42-2> what is Mer and virtualbox?
Jan 19 11:03:35 <johnx> ok. is apache running?
Jan 19 11:03:41 <t_s_o> http://www.ubergizmo.com/15/archives/2009/01/cd_disc_packaging.html
Jan 19 11:03:48 <Jake42-2> on 127.0.0.1
Jan 19 11:03:49 <Stskeeps> Jake42-2: something else (http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer_Blueprint)
Jan 19 11:04:09 <Jake42-2> it says "It works!"
Jan 19 11:04:13 <Jake42-2> so I think it is ok
Jan 19 11:04:35 <johnx> great, but when you try to load a .php page, what happens?
Jan 19 11:04:52 <Jake42-2> is displays it as text mesage
Jan 19 11:04:59 <Jake42-2> eg. 127.0.0.1/test.php
Jan 19 11:05:02 <Jake42-2> I see
Jan 19 11:05:09 <Jake42-2> <?php phpinfo() ?>
Jan 19 11:05:22 <Jake42-2> (but not the expected php logo)
Jan 19 11:05:51 <johnx> and you also installed php support for apache?
Jan 19 11:06:30 <Jake42-2> I install the apache web server package from the maemo.org   . Isn't it ok?
Jan 19 11:06:43 <Jake42-2> (maybe that's what I'm missing)
Jan 19 11:07:01 <johnx> well, it might not be built with php support
Jan 19 11:07:13 <Jake42-2> so?
Jan 19 11:07:53 <Stskeeps> johnx: Mer-isms are needed for hildon-application-manager
Jan 19 11:08:03 <Stskeeps> it uses 'user', inittab, etc
Jan 19 11:08:14 <johnx> Stskeeps, expected as much :/
Jan 19 11:08:16 <johnx> inittab?
Jan 19 11:08:43 <johnx> Jake42-2, did you install php separately?
Jan 19 11:08:46 <Stskeeps> yeah, tries to insert a rescue mode thing
Jan 19 11:08:49 <lcuk> is mer actually gonna be multiuser?
Jan 19 11:08:58 <Jake42-2> johnx I don't think so
Jan 19 11:09:10 <Jake42-2> from synaptic?
Jan 19 11:09:43 <johnx> synaptic? you mean 'application manager'?
Jan 19 11:10:08 <lcuk> johnx, ;) at least he didnt say installshield :P
Jan 19 11:10:18 <johnx> anyways, can you check your apache config to see if php is enabled?
Jan 19 11:10:54 <Jake42-2> yes
Jan 19 11:11:00 <Jake42-2> please tell me how .... :(
Jan 19 11:11:17 <Jake42-2> (In linux I knew it, but in maemo its tricky)
Jan 19 11:11:31 <johnx> do you have openssh server or dropbear installed?
Jan 19 11:12:00 <johnx> it should be in the same place as in debian, in /etc
Jan 19 11:12:12 <GeneralAntilles> Stskeeps, just rip out the rescue mode stuff?
Jan 19 11:12:37 <Stskeeps> GeneralAntilles: yeah, i did
Jan 19 11:13:19 <Jake42-2> johnx , I don't have installed openssh server or dropbear
Jan 19 11:13:23 <Jake42-2> (should I?)
Jan 19 11:13:39 <johnx> if you do you can ssh into your tablet
Jan 19 11:14:15 <Jake42-2> hmmm I thought so, but I didn't did it
Jan 19 11:14:39 <johnx> well, if not just open "X Terminal"
Jan 19 11:14:40 <Jake42-2> so... for 1st step, maemo.org , download openssh ?
Jan 19 11:14:50 <Stskeeps> johnx: added h-a-m merizing to wiki
Jan 19 11:14:55 <Jake42-2> (all the time I used x terminal :(  )
Jan 19 11:15:15 <johnx> Jake42-2, yeah, you'll probably be happier using ssh and being able to type on your desktop keyboard
Jan 19 11:15:43 <Jake42-2> (indeed)
Jan 19 11:16:08 <johnx> Stskeeps, ok, I won't bight off too much more until I chew through some of the changes to first-boot-wizard and auto-startx (as well as marquee plugins)
Jan 19 11:16:14 <johnx> back in couple minutes
Jan 19 11:16:19 <Stskeeps> johnx: alright
Jan 19 11:16:55 <Jake42-2> Stskeeps
Jan 19 11:17:08 <Jake42-2> how should I access the tablet?
Jan 19 11:17:13 <Jake42-2> (I mean, what user?????)
Jan 19 11:17:25 <Stskeeps> root
Jan 19 11:17:37 <Jake42-2> and the IP?
Jan 19 11:17:48 <Stskeeps> whatever it got on the wifi network
Jan 19 11:17:56 <Stskeeps> get homeip to show you
Jan 19 11:18:02 <Jake42-2> hmmm... yup... you're right...
Jan 19 11:18:27 <Jake42-2> openssH cilent and server
Jan 19 11:18:29 <Jake42-2> right?
Jan 19 11:18:33 <Stskeeps> mm
Jan 19 11:18:37 <Stskeeps> bbl, reading
Jan 19 11:18:43 <slonopotamus> fauxmight, ping
Jan 19 11:20:24 <Jake42-2> Stskeeps if I have 3 pc under the same router connected
Jan 19 11:20:34 <Jake42-2> all of them have the same public IP
Jan 19 11:20:47 <Jake42-2> how should I choose the N810?
Jan 19 11:20:50 <Jake42-2> (intranet?)
Jan 19 11:20:53 <Stskeeps> Jake42-2: be internal on the network..
Jan 19 11:24:35 <Jake42-2> has the x terminal ifconfig?
Jan 19 11:24:57 <Stskeeps> sudo gainroot
Jan 19 11:24:58 <johnx> yes
Jan 19 11:25:08 <johnx> type: /sbin/ifconfig
Jan 19 11:25:44 <Jake42-2> at the meantime I install the openssh server
Jan 19 11:25:54 <Jake42-2> (this cause collides...)
Jan 19 11:25:56 <Jake42-2> anyway....
Jan 19 11:26:33 <Jake42-2> johnx
Jan 19 11:26:36 <Jake42-2> at the /etc
Jan 19 11:26:41 <Jake42-2> there isn't apache
Jan 19 11:26:43 <Jake42-2> or apach2
Jan 19 11:26:52 <johnx> is there httpd?
Jan 19 11:26:55 <Jake42-2> yes
Jan 19 11:26:57 <Jake42-2> but
Jan 19 11:27:11 <Jake42-2> the file conf in it
Jan 19 11:27:14 <Jake42-2> is blank...:(
Jan 19 11:27:39 <Jake42-2> (so there isn't configuration about apache and php :( )
Jan 19 11:27:42 <johnx> http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/apache/
Jan 19 11:27:52 <johnx> that's where you got it right?
Jan 19 11:28:02 <Jake42-2> yes
Jan 19 11:28:06 <Jake42-2> that's right
Jan 19 11:28:15 <johnx> read the description there about where the configuration is :)
Jan 19 11:28:40 <Jake42-2> I did
Jan 19 11:28:57 <johnx> did you look in /usr/conf ?
Jan 19 11:29:53 <Jake42-2> yes
Jan 19 11:29:56 <Jake42-2> still blank
Jan 19 11:30:13 <Jake42-2> and the /etc/httpd/conf
Jan 19 11:30:33 <Jake42-2> so I miss something :(
Jan 19 11:32:48 <Jake42-2> Is there any solution?
Jan 19 11:33:03 <Jake42-2> (I just want mysql and php together)
Jan 19 11:33:18 <Jake42-2> (I don't mind If I should install Mer or anything else)
Jan 19 11:33:40 <johnx> did you look at the documentation included with apache?
Jan 19 11:34:17 <Jake42-2> if you mean on the official site of apache
Jan 19 11:34:26 <Jake42-2> I didn't find anything
Jan 19 11:34:29 <johnx> no, I mean included with the package
Jan 19 11:34:34 <Jake42-2> ?
Jan 19 11:34:51 <Jake42-2> how is that possible? I just download the shortcut and I run it
Jan 19 11:35:50 <johnx> well, it might have a readme or something in /usr/share/docs/<package name>
Jan 19 11:36:00 <johnx> the package name seems to be httpd
Jan 19 11:36:47 <Jake42-2> inside /etc/httpd
Jan 19 11:36:55 <Jake42-2> there is only the conf
Jan 19 11:36:58 <Jake42-2> which is blank
Jan 19 11:39:17 <Jake42-2> hmmm
Jan 19 11:39:32 <Jake42-2> How may i change the openssh password?
Jan 19 11:39:53 <Jake42-2> (i thought i inserted it right, but now I can't gain access)
Jan 19 11:40:23 <pyhimys> Jake42-2: use ssh-keys?
Jan 19 11:40:45 <Jake42-2> ?
Jan 19 11:40:47 <Jake42-2> aaaa
Jan 19 11:40:48 <Jake42-2> yes
Jan 19 11:41:01 <Jake42-2> RSA that's what you mean
Jan 19 11:41:08 <pyhimys> yep
Jan 19 11:41:18 <Jake42-2> yes I use
Jan 19 11:41:22 <Jake42-2> shouldn't?
Jan 19 11:42:37 <Jake42-2> johnx there isn't
Jan 19 11:42:39 <johnx> Jake42-2, make sure you're specifying the user 'root' when you use ssh
Jan 19 11:42:45 <Jake42-2> anything
Jan 19 11:42:53 <Jake42-2> on /usr/share/doc
Jan 19 11:42:56 <Jake42-2> (about httpd)
Jan 19 11:43:01 <johnx> hmm, doesn't sound like a very good package of apache :/
Jan 19 11:43:13 <Jake42-2> (only 1 README file)
Jan 19 11:43:25 <Jake42-2> johnx what do you propose?
Jan 19 11:44:09 <johnx> no proposals really
Jan 19 11:44:38 <Jake42-2> hmmm
Jan 19 11:44:41 <johnx> you have some options, but it depends on what you need and how much time you want to put into this
Jan 19 11:44:50 <Jake42-2> time it's ok
Jan 19 11:44:58 <Jake42-2> I just want to finish the job
Jan 19 11:45:06 <johnx> what's the project?
Jan 19 11:45:07 <Jake42-2> how about the Mer and virtual box?
Jan 19 11:45:21 <Jake42-2> web application in hand :)
Jan 19 11:45:22 <Stskeeps> Jake42-2: that's an experimental project :)
Jan 19 11:45:46 <johnx> and virtualbox is like vmware. we use it to run mer in a virtual machine on a desktop computer
Jan 19 11:45:49 <Jake42-2> I have created an electronic health record
Jan 19 11:46:03 <johnx> so the device needs to run a web browser too, right?
Jan 19 11:46:55 <Jake42-2> yes
Jan 19 11:47:06 <Jake42-2> (the files are ready)
Jan 19 11:47:22 <Jake42-2> I just miss the web server
Jan 19 11:47:45 <Jake42-2> The apache should work, since it says "it works!" at local host
Jan 19 11:48:04 <johnx> yes, but unless it has php support it won't work
Jan 19 11:48:07 <Stskeeps> Jake42-2: where do you work, out of curiosity?
Jan 19 11:48:35 <Jake42-2> university project
Jan 19 11:48:46 <Jake42-2> johnx unfortunately I know it... :(
Jan 19 11:49:13 <Jake42-2> plzzz guys... I have been working on it since 5 months....
Jan 19 11:49:22 <Jake42-2> it's the last jigsaw ....
Jan 19 11:49:33 <Jake42-2> I should be something....
Jan 19 11:50:00 <Stskeeps> Jake42-2: so you just need to show a demo?
Jan 19 11:50:06 <johnx> have you looked at "easy debian"?
Jan 19 11:50:14 <Jake42-2> ha...
Jan 19 11:50:15 <Jake42-2> I did
Jan 19 11:50:21 <Jake42-2> but it's toooooooooooooooo slow...
Jan 19 11:50:24 <Stskeeps> Jake42-2: it would probably do the trick for you
Jan 19 11:50:31 <Jake42-2> the browser is like never - open....
Jan 19 11:50:42 <Stskeeps> Jake42-2: you just need to run apache inside it
Jan 19 11:50:44 <Stskeeps> not the browser
Jan 19 11:50:46 <johnx> Jake42-2, run the browser in maemo and run the server in apache
Jan 19 11:51:00 <Jake42-2> hmmm
Jan 19 11:51:00 <johnx> s/server in apache/apache in easy debian chroot/
Jan 19 11:51:03 <johnx> <- fails
Jan 19 11:51:13 <Jake42-2> fails?
Jan 19 11:51:35 <johnx> I meant, I mis-typed :)
Jan 19 11:51:56 <Jake42-2> ...... :)
Jan 19 11:52:08 <Jake42-2> but which should be the local host?
Jan 19 11:52:30 <johnx> 127.0.0.1 = localhost
Jan 19 11:52:33 <Jake42-2> yes
Jan 19 11:52:34 <johnx> a chroot doesn't change that
Jan 19 11:52:35 <Jake42-2> I meant
Jan 19 11:52:55 <Jake42-2> the apache runs on one OS , and the web browser on another...
Jan 19 11:53:05 <Jake42-2> It is virtual
Jan 19 11:53:19 <Stskeeps> and?
Jan 19 11:53:23 <Jake42-2> and the directories are considered to be the same?
Jan 19 11:53:23 <Stskeeps> no, it's same OS
Jan 19 11:53:24 <Stskeeps> same kernel
Jan 19 11:53:45 <johnx> Jake42-2, a chroot is not the same as a virtual machine
Jan 19 11:53:56 <Jake42-2> is accesses the same directories...
Jan 19 11:54:00 <Jake42-2> hmmm
Jan 19 11:54:13 <Stskeeps> Jake42-2: no, just accesses the stuff inside chroot
Jan 19 11:54:20 <Jake42-2> hmm
Jan 19 11:54:28 <Jake42-2> I don't get along with chroot
Jan 19 11:54:33 <Jake42-2> it is a file?
Jan 19 11:54:40 <johnx> it's a directory
Jan 19 11:54:49 <johnx> say your chroot is /mnt/chroot
Jan 19 11:55:03 <johnx> you keep a normal debian system under /mnt/chroot
Jan 19 11:55:12 <johnx> apache can only see things under /mnt/chroot
Jan 19 11:55:28 <johnx> so apache sees /mnt/chroot/etc/apache as /etc/apache
Jan 19 11:55:41 <Jake42-2> so I should create the
Jan 19 11:55:45 <Jake42-2> aaaaaa
Jan 19 11:55:51 <Jake42-2> You wrote it...
Jan 19 11:56:32 <johnx> that's only *if* you're running apache in a chroot
Jan 19 11:56:44 <johnx> right now you're running it normally, but it's not a very good package of apache
Jan 19 11:57:13 <Jake42-2> is there any other package?
Jan 19 11:57:58 <johnx> I don't know
Jan 19 11:58:06 <johnx> I don't use a web server on my n800 :)
Jan 19 11:58:27 <johnx> I still think "easy debian" would be the easiest way
Jan 19 11:58:46 <Jake42-2> I have it installed
Jan 19 11:59:02 <Jake42-2> now how am I supposed to install openssh AND on it?
Jan 19 11:59:03 <johnx> if you use "easy debian" then you can use the normal debian package for apache and it will be easier to setup
Jan 19 11:59:12 <Stskeeps> 'lo persia
Jan 19 11:59:29 <persia> Hello :)
Jan 19 11:59:36 <johnx> hi persia
Jan 19 11:59:37 <housetier> moin
Jan 19 12:00:36 <Jake42-2> johnx are you sure that
Jan 19 12:00:44 <Jake42-2> there is apache under easy debian?
Jan 19 12:00:57 <johnx> yes. you can install any debian package under easy debian
Jan 19 12:01:25 <Jake42-2> but what packages should I install
Jan 19 12:01:31 <johnx> apache
Jan 19 12:01:31 <Jake42-2> (those of LAMP?)
Jan 19 12:01:47 <Stskeeps> yes
Jan 19 12:03:29 <Jake42-2> within debian
Jan 19 12:03:37 <Jake42-2> HOW am supposed to type numbers?
Jan 19 12:03:46 <Jake42-2> the fn button doesn't correspond
Jan 19 12:04:11 <Jake42-2> (btw sudo apt-get install apache , there aren't packages)
Jan 19 12:04:18 <Jake42-2> (should I also update repos?)
Jan 19 12:04:35 <johnx> that would be a good start I'm sure
Jan 19 12:04:46 <johnx> you can use: apt-cache search apache
Jan 19 12:04:55 <johnx> to find the exact names of the apache packages you want
Jan 19 12:05:04 <johnx> or you can browse the list of packages on packages.debian.org
Jan 19 12:05:20 <Jake42-2> I know the names of packages
Jan 19 12:05:30 <Jake42-2> but there aren't in...
Jan 19 12:06:39 <Jake42-2> (the apt-cache searvh apache has only some packages about java,ssl and XML)
Jan 19 12:06:57 <johnx> did you do an apt-get update yet?
Jan 19 12:06:58 <Jake42-2> (either way I installed them, just in case)
Jan 19 12:07:17 <Jake42-2> yup I did
Jan 19 12:07:26 <Jake42-2> you think upgrade wokr?
Jan 19 12:07:29 <Jake42-2> *work
Jan 19 12:07:53 <Jake42-2> the same again
Jan 19 12:08:11 <johnx> then check /etc/apt/sources.list
Jan 19 12:08:35 <Jake42-2> the main problem is
Jan 19 12:08:44 <Jake42-2> that I can't type numbers.....:(
Jan 19 12:09:11 <johnx> install openssh server in maemo (outside debian), ssh in to the n810 from a desktop
Jan 19 12:09:12 <Jake42-2> OH, I found it, I can :)
Jan 19 12:09:15 <johnx> edit things that way
Jan 19 12:09:25 <johnx> ah, ok
Jan 19 12:09:52 <Jake42-2> but in case I did this you said, how should I had access inside debian?
Jan 19 12:10:18 <johnx> it's just a directory
Jan 19 12:10:48 <zs> hi is it possible to get gcc working on n810?
Jan 19 12:10:48 <Jake42-2> a, ok then...
Jan 19 12:10:49 <Jake42-2> anyway...
Jan 19 12:10:56 <Jake42-2> the source.list is empty...
Jan 19 12:11:18 <johnx> zs, yes, I believe so, but it's not really recommended
Jan 19 12:11:30 <zs> johnx: why not?
Jan 19 12:11:38 <johnx> Jake42-2, are there any files in /etc/apt/sources.list.d ?
Jan 19 12:11:54 <Jake42-2> yup
Jan 19 12:11:58 <Jake42-2> but still empty
Jan 19 12:12:12 <johnx> Jake42-2, then add the correct debian repository
Jan 19 12:12:40 <johnx> zs, gcc and the headers you need with it can take a lot of space
Jan 19 12:13:58 <Jake42-2> johnx now there is a problem...
Jan 19 12:14:09 <Jake42-2> the browser of debian is too slow...
Jan 19 12:14:14 <Jake42-2> so It must me done
Jan 19 12:14:19 <johnx> Jake42-2, don't use it
Jan 19 12:14:21 <Jake42-2> outside
Jan 19 12:14:24 <johnx> yes
Jan 19 12:14:26 <johnx> do that
Jan 19 12:14:32 <Jake42-2> hmmm w8
Jan 19 12:17:06 <Jake42-2> in which folder
Jan 19 12:17:09 <Jake42-2> is the debian?
Jan 19 12:17:16 <Jake42-2> something like chroot
Jan 19 12:17:27 <johnx> I honestly don't know
Jan 19 12:18:38 <johnx> hmm, looks like marquee-plugins are relying on some things in hildonwm that aren't there anymore
Jan 19 12:19:05 <johnx> HD_ATOM_MB_GRAB_TRANSFER
Jan 19 12:19:11 <Jake42-2> ...
Jan 19 12:19:22 <Stskeeps> johnx: i think it was added
Jan 19 12:19:33 <Jake42-2> find / chroot isn't a goode choice... anything else?
Jan 19 12:19:41 <Stskeeps> Jake42-2: /debian
Jan 19 12:19:44 <Stskeeps> probably
Jan 19 12:20:25 <johnx> Stskeeps, added by the ubuntu guys?
Jan 19 12:20:29 <Stskeeps> moblin, actually
Jan 19 12:20:30 <Stskeeps> sec
Jan 19 12:20:46 <johnx> yeah, looks like it
Jan 19 12:21:06 <johnx> found it
Jan 19 12:21:32 <Stskeeps> hmm, multiple screen resolution and rotation support patches
Jan 19 12:21:36 <Stskeeps> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mobile/hildon-desktop/ubuntu/changes
Jan 19 12:21:39 <Stskeeps> feel free to merge as much as you want
Jan 19 12:21:53 <johnx> I'll see how that goes :)
Jan 19 12:22:20 <Jake42-2> Stskeeps is it possible to run on N810?
Jan 19 12:22:26 <Khertan_n810> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mobile/hildon-desktop/ubuntu/revision/356
Jan 19 12:22:31 <Khertan_n810> more interesting :)
Jan 19 12:22:40 <Khertan_n810> i would like to see what kourou look like
Jan 19 12:22:55 <Stskeeps> Khertan_n810: i haven't been able to make it work sanely yet
Jan 19 12:23:12 <Khertan_n810> héhé i m not surprized
Jan 19 12:23:37 * slonopotamus thinks everyone is crazy with screen rotation
Jan 19 12:23:58 <Stskeeps> slonopotamus: i'm more interested in screen resolution
Jan 19 12:24:22 <slonopotamus> Stskeeps, hmm... where do you have resolution different from 800x480?
Jan 19 12:24:42 <Stskeeps> slonopotamus: x86
Jan 19 12:24:50 <slonopotamus> Stskeeps, oh my
Jan 19 12:24:51 <Stskeeps> zaurus
Jan 19 12:24:52 <Stskeeps> wii
Jan 19 12:24:58 <Jake42-2> where is the maemo repository?
Jan 19 12:25:04 <slonopotamus> wii? you're running mer on wii?
Jan 19 12:25:09 <Stskeeps> slonopotamus: we might
Jan 19 12:25:11 <johnx> slonopotamus, not yet :)
Jan 19 12:25:21 <johnx> so far debian works nicely and so does X11
Jan 19 12:25:39 <johnx> that's just a short hop to ubuntu and mer except for the resolution
Jan 19 12:25:49 <Stskeeps> 640x480 or how was it?
Jan 19 12:26:05 <johnx> 640x480 for NTSC
Jan 19 12:26:18 <johnx> 640x576 for PAL I think?
Jan 19 12:26:42 <slonopotamus> mer, maemo, ubuntu mobile, android... to many entities
Jan 19 12:26:58 <slonopotamus> deblet...
Jan 19 12:27:03 <slonopotamus> s/to/too
Jan 19 12:27:05 <GeneralAntilles> Well, Android is something else entirely.
Jan 19 12:27:11 <johnx> slonopotamus, once we rule the world we'll tell the others to stop :)
Jan 19 12:27:15 <Jake42-2> johnx.... had you tried android on N810?
Jan 19 12:27:21 <slonopotamus> johnx, :)
Jan 19 12:27:23 <johnx> Jake42-2, I haven't
Jan 19 12:27:42 <slonopotamus> johnx, i'm unstoppable with my gentoo :) i'll write ebuild for your mer :)
Jan 19 12:27:45 <Jake42-2> the repo of maemo?
Jan 19 12:27:47 <johnx> slonopotamus, deblet is superseded by mer...and hopefully we can share a lot in common with ubuntu mobile
Jan 19 12:28:06 <johnx> Jake42-2, repository.maemo.org
Jan 19 12:28:06 <Stskeeps> Jake42-2: google is helpful
Jan 19 12:28:19 <Jake42-2> no
Jan 19 12:28:23 <Jake42-2> (sorry)
Jan 19 12:28:28 <Jake42-2> I meant something else....
Jan 19 12:28:37 <Jake42-2> may I copy
Jan 19 12:28:42 <Jake42-2> links of other repos
Jan 19 12:28:45 <slonopotamus> johnx, why didn't you join forces with ubuntu mobile?
Jan 19 12:28:45 <Jake42-2> (like ubuntu)
Jan 19 12:29:02 <GeneralAntilles> slonopotamus, they target big fat UMPCs and MIDs.
Jan 19 12:29:03 <Jake42-2> slonopotamus you mean to install ubuntu on N810?
Jan 19 12:29:07 <slonopotamus> johnx, is there severe mismatch in your goals?
Jan 19 12:29:07 <Stskeeps> slonopotamus: we're probably more willing to break things a lot more than ubuntu
Jan 19 12:29:14 <johnx> GeneralAntilles, not really the hold up :)
Jan 19 12:29:40 <johnx> slonopotamus, they're ubuntu *first* and maemo second
Jan 19 12:29:40 <Jake42-2> I remind I need PHP + MYSQL  i don't care about OS, I need it to work...
Jan 19 12:29:45 <johnx> we're maemo first and ubuntu second
Jan 19 12:30:23 <johnx> Jake42-2, if you give up when you're halfway there it's never going to work. you can make this work in easy debian, but you need to put a little time into it
Jan 19 12:30:34 <johnx> don't just run into a dead-end and give up in 5 minutes
Jan 19 12:30:43 <Jake42-2> johnx
Jan 19 12:30:50 <johnx> Jake42-2,
Jan 19 12:30:51 <Jake42-2> I just want to make it happen
Jan 19 12:31:07 <Jake42-2> you are right, in what you said but we can't find
Jan 19 12:31:14 <Jake42-2> the debian dir....
Jan 19 12:31:44 <Stskeeps> Jake42-2: hint, 'mount'
Jan 19 12:31:52 <Stskeeps> in maemo
Jan 19 12:31:58 <Stskeeps> shows you clearly where the partition is mounted
Jan 19 12:32:09 <Jake42-2> mnt
Jan 19 12:32:14 <Jake42-2> and it has only
Jan 19 12:32:17 <Jake42-2> initfs
Jan 19 12:32:21 <Stskeeps> no, not that one
Jan 19 12:32:46 <Stskeeps> anyhow
Jan 19 12:32:57 <Stskeeps> Jake42-2: there's a thread on iTT with all the gory details about Easy Debian
Jan 19 12:33:04 <Stskeeps> and qole's always up for answering questions
Jan 19 12:33:15 <Stskeeps> it is pretty easy if you study how easy debian works
Jan 19 12:33:52 <Jake42-2> what is iTT ?
Jan 19 12:34:00 <Stskeeps> internettablettalk.com/forums
Jan 19 12:34:09 <Jake42-2> aaaaa
Jan 19 12:34:16 <Jake42-2> I had made many posts there
Jan 19 12:34:24 <Jake42-2> but none good answer
Jan 19 12:34:31 <Stskeeps> yes, but you're not asking the right question then
Jan 19 12:34:38 <Stskeeps> look at the guides for easy debian
Jan 19 12:35:25 <Jake42-2> ok
Jan 19 12:35:27 <Jake42-2> but then
Jan 19 12:35:46 <Jake42-2> besides the php
Jan 19 12:35:55 <Stskeeps> trust me, it'll work, and you can access it in the normal maemo browser
Jan 19 12:36:02 <Jake42-2> and the mysql should be installed on debian as well
Jan 19 12:36:08 <johnx> yes
Jan 19 12:36:10 <Stskeeps> i have no idea if mysql works on ARM
Jan 19 12:36:31 <Jake42-2> in maemo
Jan 19 12:36:33 <Jake42-2> itself
Jan 19 12:36:35 <Jake42-2> it works
Jan 19 12:36:39 <Jake42-2> (tested :)  )
Jan 19 12:36:45 <Jake42-2> but i need php support now
Jan 19 12:36:49 <Jake42-2> so
Jan 19 12:36:55 <Stskeeps> fair enough
Jan 19 12:36:59 <Jake42-2> the php should be installed on debian
Jan 19 12:37:05 <Stskeeps> the apache + php
Jan 19 12:37:21 <Stskeeps> go read up on it, it'll save yourself a lot of time instead of asking questions
Jan 19 12:38:05 <Jake42-2> http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24272&highlight=easy+debian
Jan 19 12:38:13 <johnx> Jake42-2, you are doing something that we haven't done. if you ask us questions all we will be able to do is search google and try and tell you what we find. it's faster to just search yourself
Jan 19 12:38:34 <Jake42-2> If you se at iTT
Jan 19 12:38:41 <Jake42-2> the user T3rmInAt0r
Jan 19 12:38:43 <Jake42-2> it's me
Jan 19 12:38:50 <johnx> I guessed :)
Jan 19 12:38:52 <Jake42-2> I kept going on asking questions
Jan 19 12:38:58 <Jake42-2> before xmas...
Jan 19 12:39:19 <lcuk> johnx, have you got yourself a wii to test mer on yet?
Jan 19 12:39:43 <johnx> lcuk, had one since january 2007 :)
Jan 19 12:40:08 <lcuk> yeah but have you got linux on it yet
Jan 19 12:40:14 <lcuk> (my son hates to hear those words)
Jan 19 12:40:24 <johnx> lcuk, very much so, but not ubuntu
Jan 19 12:40:28 * lcuk installs linux on his mountain bike
Jan 19 12:40:32 <johnx> I even recompiled the kernel on it
Jan 19 12:40:49 <lcuk> nice, whats the cpu spec - in comparison to n8x0?
Jan 19 12:40:55 <johnx> I need to get at toolchain installed again and build a driver for my usb-ethernet adapter
Jan 19 12:41:10 <johnx> lcuk, a ~700MHz G3-class PowerPC
Jan 19 12:41:12 <lcuk> does wifi not work yet with it?
Jan 19 12:41:14 <johnx> it's *fast*
Jan 19 12:41:18 <lcuk> ahhh cool
Jan 19 12:41:21 <johnx> yeah, no wifi
Jan 19 12:41:30 <lcuk> the gpu is a bit underpowered but obviously capable
Jan 19 12:41:46 <lcuk> has it got drivers yet?
Jan 19 12:42:00 <johnx> drivers for the GPU...not 3D for sure
Jan 19 12:42:09 <johnx> might be basic support for scaling and such
Jan 19 12:42:14 <lcuk> reasonable, like elsewhere
Jan 19 12:42:22 * lcuk looks at his n8x0
Jan 19 12:42:53 <johnx> heh, zaurus, n8x0, ipaq, (tons of other wince devices)
Jan 19 12:43:11 <lcuk> i tohught wince had dx 3d?
Jan 19 12:43:16 <lcuk> or are most of them in the same boat?
Jan 19 12:43:28 <johnx> a lot don't have drivers :)
Jan 19 12:43:28 <lcuk> or are you on about linux side
Jan 19 12:43:55 <lcuk> shockingly bad form, all that technology that could be enabled
Jan 19 12:44:00 <johnx> 3D drivers are (were?) a low priority on a lot of handheld systems
Jan 19 12:44:06 <lcuk> whether or not its used
Jan 19 12:44:32 <lcuk> have you seen this wiimote thing on planet today, controlling canola with a severe tip
Jan 19 12:44:33 <johnx> so what do you do with a team that has limited man power? delay the product? ship without sound drivers?
Jan 19 12:44:46 <johnx> not yet :)
Jan 19 12:45:22 <Jake42-2> it is possible for someone to copy-paste tha whole conversation we had above on a www.pastebin.ca ? (I run IRC throught Java-site so I can't copy more than 3- lines....)
Jan 19 12:45:29 <lcuk> agreed about shipping is better than waiting, but imation should be interested in actually supplying drivers for their own little component
Jan 19 12:45:38 <johnx> Jake42-2, http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/
Jan 19 12:45:43 <lcuk> Jake42-2, the whole conversation is logged
Jan 19 12:46:01 <Jake42-2> glad to learn it :)
Jan 19 12:46:05 <opengeekv2> someone knows if n810 charger works on an n800?
Jan 19 12:46:07 <johnx> lcuk, the world is never that simple :)
Jan 19 12:46:16 <lcuk> opengeekv2, yes i do it most days
Jan 19 12:46:20 <lcuk> johnx +1
Jan 19 12:46:37 <opengeekv2> ok thanks
Jan 19 12:47:26 <lcuk> johnx, seems to me like intel releasing a cpu without supplying a compiler for it
Jan 19 12:47:42 <lcuk> or supporting existing compilers..
Jan 19 12:47:49 <johnx> lcuk, ah, not quite :)
Jan 19 12:48:04 <johnx> because intel only put in the features they cared about being there
Jan 19 12:48:58 <lcuk> ofcrouse this whole convo isnt important cos  omap3 *should* solve it
Jan 19 12:49:02 <johnx> though actually, here's a good example: intel released celeron CPUs that were SMP capable but didn't flip the bit to enable it
Jan 19 12:49:19 <lcuk> celeron 300a :D
Jan 19 12:49:36 <lcuk> mmm no, not smp
Jan 19 12:49:43 <lcuk> that was 66mhz fsb to 100
Jan 19 12:50:09 <johnx> all sorts of motivations for not enabling features, some good, some unfortunate
Jan 19 12:50:09 <lcuk> damn, work to do.
Jan 19 12:50:15 * lcuk puts on his cape and goes working
Jan 19 12:50:21 <johnx> for example my wifi card would make an excellent jammer :)
Jan 19 12:50:24 <lcuk> catch ya later john
Jan 19 12:50:29 <johnx> 'later lcuk
Jan 19 12:53:12 <GeneralAntilles> Ah, DRM.
Jan 19 12:53:23 <GeneralAntilles> I dunno how the ebook sellers stay in business.
Jan 19 12:53:27 <johnx> GeneralAntilles, read Valve's comment on it?
Jan 19 12:53:55 <johnx> nice to see Valve being enlightened about DRM and using it to make buckets full of cash money :)
Jan 19 12:53:56 <GeneralAntilles> johnx, I dunno, maybe? Something recent?
Jan 19 12:54:09 <johnx> today on slashdot
Jan 19 12:54:26 <johnx> their legal dept saying "pirates are underserved customers."
Jan 19 12:54:48 <johnx> and their president saying that he never saw DRM work right (or similar)
Jan 19 12:57:15 <pohobbit> hi, is downgrade to os2007 only way to get opera? (n800)
Jan 19 12:57:59 <Stskeeps> pohobbit: i'd personally look at the webkit engine first :P
Jan 19 12:58:12 <Jake42-2> johnx I found the http://qole.blogspot.com/2008/10/easy-debian-moves-to-extras-devel.html
Jan 19 12:58:30 <Jake42-2> but as I understood the new debian isn't free....:(
Jan 19 12:58:43 <johnx> Jake42-2, what?
Jan 19 12:58:44 <pohobbit> Stskeeps: how i get webkit?
Jan 19 12:59:04 <Jake42-2> I have released it to the non-free section of Extras-Devel
Jan 19 12:59:11 <Jake42-2> (it says at the site)
Jan 19 12:59:15 <GeneralAntilles> pohobbit, Opera is terrible.
Jan 19 12:59:33 <johnx> Jake42-2, don't worry about that. it's just in the wrong section for a silly reason
Jan 19 12:59:39 <Stskeeps> http://internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25752&highlight=webkit , https://garage.maemo.org/projects/webkit-eal/
Jan 19 13:00:10 <pohobbit> GeneralAntilles: yes, but works better certain pages
Jan 19 13:00:32 <GeneralAntilles> pohobbit, and much, much worse on most.
Jan 19 13:00:40 <GeneralAntilles> Especially more than a year down the road.
Jan 19 13:05:29 <Jake42-2> now that I remembered somthing
Jan 19 13:05:41 <Jake42-2> the drupal isn't good in my case?
Jan 19 13:06:24 <johnx> good for what?
Jan 19 13:06:29 <johnx> it's a perfectly nice blogging system
Jan 19 13:07:47 <Jake42-2> but it doesn't support mysql
Jan 19 13:07:55 <johnx> it's not a web server
Jan 19 13:08:12 <Jake42-2> I thought so
Jan 19 13:08:20 <Jake42-2> in my previous tries about web server
Jan 19 13:08:23 <Jake42-2> somehow
Jan 19 13:08:29 <johnx> it runs on apache, php, mysql
Jan 19 13:08:35 <Jake42-2> a dir /wwwPHP
Jan 19 13:08:40 <Jake42-2> created
Jan 19 13:09:03 <Jake42-2> does this remind something?
Jan 19 13:10:19 <johnx> well yes. there is lighttpd with php support
Jan 19 13:10:23 <johnx> you told me you installed it
Jan 19 13:11:02 <Jake42-2> should I activate any triger or variable in order to function?
Jan 19 13:11:14 <johnx> I don't know!
Jan 19 13:11:21 <johnx> I don't even know PHP
Jan 19 13:11:22 <Jake42-2> ...
Jan 19 13:11:35 <Jake42-2> it's Ok , I can show you :)
Jan 19 13:11:40 <Jake42-2> whatever..
Jan 19 13:11:57 <johnx> look, I'm sorry, but I really don't know how to help you
Jan 19 13:12:04 <Jake42-2> yes man
Jan 19 13:12:18 <Jake42-2> I appreciate all the time you spent previously
Jan 19 13:12:32 <Jake42-2> I need some technical help
Jan 19 13:12:39 <Jake42-2> about the table,
Jan 19 13:12:53 <Jake42-2> about the rest I 'll figure out something
Jan 19 13:13:02 <johnx> ok. good luck
Jan 19 13:13:13 <Jake42-2> now..
Jan 19 13:13:16 <Jake42-2> about the tablet
Jan 19 13:13:27 <Jake42-2> I found
Jan 19 13:13:28 <Jake42-2> the
Jan 19 13:13:52 <Jake42-2> http://www.gronmayer.com/it/index.php?lang=en&system=maemo4&sort=hits&show_pck=124#124
Jan 19 13:14:00 <Jake42-2> and I scrolled up the page
Jan 19 13:14:09 <Jake42-2> I checked to install all the repos
Jan 19 13:14:25 <Jake42-2> how may I check now if they are installed correctly?
Jan 19 13:15:27 <johnx> it's not a very good idea to install all of those repos
Jan 19 13:15:32 <johnx> some of them have conflicting packages
Jan 19 13:15:38 <lcuk> you will know all repos have been installed correctly when your device stops working
Jan 19 13:15:51 <johnx> you can look in application-manager to see a list of repos available
Jan 19 13:16:00 <johnx> anyways, I've gotta head out for now
Jan 19 13:16:02 * RST38h moos 
Jan 19 13:16:03 <johnx> good luck
Jan 19 13:16:04 <lcuk> select repos based on specific packages required, rule of thumb, less is more.
Jan 19 13:16:10 <johnx> hey RST38h
Jan 19 13:16:11 <RST38h> glck johnx
Jan 19 13:16:12 <johnx> back later
Jan 19 13:16:20 <lcuk> cya later johnx
Jan 19 13:16:51 <Jake42-2> lcuk you are right... but I believe
Jan 19 13:16:58 <Jake42-2> it should be something that connects
Jan 19 13:17:03 <Jake42-2> apache with php
Jan 19 13:17:17 <Jake42-2> and also
Jan 19 13:17:34 <Jake42-2> the repos of maemo is empty now, So I need to fill it somehow
Jan 19 13:17:36 <Jake42-2> right?
Jan 19 13:18:49 <RST38h> http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2009/01/19/tyler_international_patent_spat/
Jan 19 13:19:17 <RST38h> (The Great Tentacled One! When you start devouring humanity, please, start with the patent lawyers!)
Jan 19 13:19:18 <Jake42-2> http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=235084&postcount=19
Jan 19 13:19:27 <lcuk> have you seen the other news about intel pulling back from releasing new chips
Jan 19 13:20:30 <lcuk> RST38h, those patents are folly
Jan 19 13:21:42 <RST38h> lcuk: this crap basically allows every jobless US lawyer buy himself a vague patent and troll ad infinitum
Jan 19 13:21:59 <Jake42-2> lcuk can you propose any way to insert big urls in N810
Jan 19 13:22:04 <RST38h> lcuk: Yea, but on the other hand, Atom was released just on time :)
Jan 19 13:22:06 <Jake42-2> through ssh?
Jan 19 13:24:27 <lcuk> Jake42-2, no, i use voice recognition
Jan 19 13:24:36 <lcuk> RST38h, good point
Jan 19 13:25:35 <Jake42-2> lcuk ???????????????? HOW?????????????
Jan 19 13:25:44 <Jake42-2> o.O
Jan 19 13:26:31 <lcuk> its quite easy, i see the URL on my desktop machine, and when I say it a few seconds later it appears on one of my nokias
Jan 19 13:27:00 <lcuk> it only works when its running "girlfriend sat at machine" app
Jan 19 13:27:08 <Jake42-2> ..........................
Jan 19 13:27:28 <Jake42-2> you scared me for a sec....
Jan 19 13:27:53 <lcuk> why though, just use your common sense and enter a long piece of information how you enter long irc lines
Jan 19 13:27:58 <lcuk> you are obviously good at typing
Jan 19 13:28:14 <lcuk> anyway, im out for the afternoon
Jan 19 13:28:56 <Jake42-2> r u here
Jan 19 13:28:56 <Jake42-2> ?
Jan 19 13:30:48 <Jake42-2> does anyone has php on N810????
Jan 19 13:34:30 <ccooke> Jake42-2: Not currently, but I tried it briefly a while back
Jan 19 13:35:13 <Jake42-2> did you managed
Jan 19 13:35:20 <Jake42-2> to display a proper php site?
Jan 19 13:35:25 <Jake42-2> (at least the php logo)
Jan 19 13:37:51 <wazd> Evening all)
Jan 19 13:38:24 <ccooke> Jake42-2: I believe so.
Jan 19 13:38:39 <ccooke> Jake42-2: I ended up giving up on PHP because shell is faster for very simple CGI
Jan 19 13:38:59 <Jake42-2> but for me
Jan 19 13:39:10 <Jake42-2> I need PHP and mysql (and a web server)
Jan 19 13:39:37 <ccooke> mmm.
Jan 19 13:39:46 <ccooke> does it have to be mysql?
Jan 19 13:39:52 <ccooke> you might find sqlite preferable
Jan 19 13:40:15 <ccooke> (Much lower resource usage)
Jan 19 13:40:29 <Jake42-2> I have made already
Jan 19 13:40:35 <Jake42-2> the database
Jan 19 13:40:43 <Jake42-2> and a site on LAMP
Jan 19 13:41:00 <Jake42-2> and I need to migrate this site on a mobile device
Jan 19 13:41:03 <ccooke> *nod* Just a suggestion, in case you find things too slow.
Jan 19 13:41:31 <Jake42-2> they are slow...
Jan 19 13:41:42 <Jake42-2> but I need to make it function
Jan 19 13:42:00 <Jake42-2> if it functions, I will try something else
Jan 19 13:42:23 <Jake42-2> at the moment I am looking for php
Jan 19 13:42:44 <Jake42-2> when I browse 127.0.0.1 the server is ok
Jan 19 13:42:55 <Jake42-2> but on 127.0.0.1/test.php
Jan 19 13:43:07 <ccooke> http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25631 - Is this your thread?
Jan 19 13:43:13 <Jake42-2> I see the text
Jan 19 13:43:28 <Jake42-2> that's right...
Jan 19 13:43:29 <ccooke> ahh
Jan 19 13:43:33 <ccooke> you haven't enabled php
Jan 19 13:43:37 <ccooke> in your server
Jan 19 13:43:38 <Jake42-2> I am a little bit desperate
Jan 19 13:43:41 <Jake42-2> I don't know how
Jan 19 13:43:45 <Jake42-2> can you help me?
Jan 19 13:43:51 <ccooke> what web server did you use?
Jan 19 13:43:53 <Jake42-2> php.ini?
Jan 19 13:43:59 <Jake42-2> the apache
Jan 19 13:44:07 <ccooke> okay. So you have apache running.
Jan 19 13:44:11 <ccooke> and serving pages
Jan 19 13:44:19 <Jake42-2> probably..
Jan 19 13:44:42 <ccooke> well, you said you can get to 127.0.0.1
Jan 19 13:44:52 <Jake42-2> yes..
Jan 19 13:44:59 <Jake42-2> "it works"
Jan 19 13:45:11 <ccooke> okay. How's the config laid out?
Jan 19 13:45:17 <ccooke> do you know much about apache config?
Jan 19 13:45:34 <Jake42-2> enough
Jan 19 13:45:42 <Jake42-2> (most in ubuntu)
Jan 19 13:45:45 <ccooke> right
Jan 19 13:45:59 <ccooke> and you have the apache libphp installed?
Jan 19 13:46:13 <ccooke> you should be able to find a libphp5.so somewhere
Jan 19 13:46:44 <Jake42-2> hmmm
Jan 19 13:46:47 <Jake42-2> w8 to check
Jan 19 13:47:04 <ccooke> dpkg -L name-of-php-package would show you
Jan 19 13:47:23 <ccooke> well, dpkg -L name-of-php-package | grep so
Jan 19 13:48:08 <Jake42-2> it says "package libphp5.so" isn't installed
Jan 19 13:48:19 <Jake42-2> (this is bad :( )
Jan 19 13:48:24 <ccooke> that's not going to be the package name
Jan 19 13:48:25 <ccooke> do this:
Jan 19 13:48:53 <ccooke> apt-cache search php
Jan 19 13:49:06 <ccooke> that'll look for a php package in your current repositories
Jan 19 13:49:21 <ccooke> (I don't see it available in mine)
Jan 19 13:49:23 <Jake42-2> yes
Jan 19 13:49:32 <Jake42-2> neither mine
Jan 19 13:49:32 <ccooke> what does it return?
Jan 19 13:49:35 <ccooke> ah ha
Jan 19 13:49:44 <ccooke> so, how did you install php?
Jan 19 13:49:44 <Jake42-2> php5-cli
Jan 19 13:49:55 <ccooke> that's not the apache module
Jan 19 13:50:01 <ccooke> that's a command-line version
Jan 19 13:50:13 <Jake42-2> hmmm through synaptic
Jan 19 13:50:37 <ccooke> The debian-style naming for php5's apache module is libapache2-mod-php5
Jan 19 13:50:52 <Jake42-2> so i need to install this one...
Jan 19 13:50:55 <Jake42-2> (but how?)
Jan 19 13:51:17 <ccooke> I don't see any version of that for maemo, though
Jan 19 13:51:25 <Jake42-2> I have lighthttpweb - this is a test package for a lighthttp/PHP combo
Jan 19 13:52:41 <ccooke> I won't be able to help with that, I'm afraid - it's not on my n810 and I can't play around installing it atm
Jan 19 13:52:57 <Jake42-2> atm?
Jan 19 13:53:44 <Jake42-2> I have a file named php.ini that inside is like the equivalent of ubuntu
Jan 19 13:54:10 <Jake42-2> when i edit it
Jan 19 13:54:12 <Jake42-2> i see
Jan 19 13:54:18 <Jake42-2> a variable with comment
Jan 19 13:54:50 <Jake42-2> "the directory under which PHP opens the scrip using /~username used only , if nonempty"
Jan 19 13:55:15 <Jake42-2> and this variable is named user_dir=
Jan 19 13:55:35 <Jake42-2> (but it has no value)
Jan 19 13:57:44 <Jake42-2> ccooke
Jan 19 13:57:58 <Jake42-2> have tried php on LAMP?
Jan 19 13:58:13 <ccooke> sorry?
Jan 19 13:58:32 <Jake42-2> on linux
Jan 19 13:59:25 <ccooke> I'm a sysadmin :-)
Jan 19 13:59:31 <Jake42-2> nice
Jan 19 13:59:33 <Jake42-2> so
Jan 19 13:59:37 <Jake42-2> in N810
Jan 19 13:59:46 <Jake42-2> there is a file named php.ini
Jan 19 14:00:02 <Jake42-2> when i installed LAMP
Jan 19 14:00:09 <ccooke> unfortunately, I'm a sysadmin *at my desk, at work*. So I can't be seen to be fiddling *too* much with a PDA :-)
Jan 19 14:00:40 <Jake42-2> yes, you are right
Jan 19 14:00:42 <ccooke> okay. when you say you installed LAMP, how did you install it? as one package? as several? From where?
Jan 19 14:00:52 <Jake42-2> as several
Jan 19 14:00:59 <ccooke> what packages were they?
Jan 19 14:01:03 <Jake42-2> i found a tutorial on howtoforge
Jan 19 14:01:04 <Jake42-2> many
Jan 19 14:01:18 <ccooke> can you tell me which ones had php in their name?
Jan 19 14:01:19 <Jake42-2> (including the reffered lib)
Jan 19 14:01:29 <Jake42-2> WAIT
Jan 19 14:01:45 <Jake42-2> now i say that this was i procedure I made on my desktop
Jan 19 14:01:48 <Jake42-2> On n810
Jan 19 14:02:02 <Jake42-2> i have installed everyhting I found relative with httpd
Jan 19 14:02:06 <Jake42-2> php mysql
Jan 19 14:02:08 <Jake42-2> apache
Jan 19 14:02:29 <Jake42-2> (or I think, I install everything, maybe something is missing)
Jan 19 14:02:39 <Jake42-2> now
Jan 19 14:02:55 <Jake42-2> as I see on php.in (N810 's php.ini)
Jan 19 14:03:01 <ccooke> okay.
Jan 19 14:03:01 <ccooke> I still need to know the name of the php package you installed on your n810
Jan 19 14:03:01 <ccooke> try this: dpkg -S /path/to/your/php.ini
Jan 19 14:03:02 <ccooke> that'll tell you what package installed the php.ini
Jan 19 14:03:11 <Jake42-2> it is as the one in LAMP
Jan 19 14:03:22 <ccooke> php.ini isn't being reached, yet
Jan 19 14:03:51 <ccooke> you need to tell your web browser that php exists first. Only then will php start reading php.ini
Jan 19 14:04:19 <Jake42-2> Oh...
Jan 19 14:04:36 <persia> browser?  Server?
Jan 19 14:04:38 <Jake42-2> but I have installed a pachage for lighthttpd/PHP combo
Jan 19 14:04:43 <ccooke> persia: server, yes.
Jan 19 14:04:52 <Jake42-2> (I want the N810 function as server)
Jan 19 14:04:59 <ccooke> Jake42-2: a short while ago, you told me you installed pache
Jan 19 14:05:01 <ccooke> apache, even
Jan 19 14:05:14 <Jake42-2> yes
Jan 19 14:05:18 <ccooke> do you have both installed?
Jan 19 14:05:22 <Jake42-2> yes
Jan 19 14:05:24 <ccooke> which one is actually *running*?
Jan 19 14:05:33 <Jake42-2> I think apache
Jan 19 14:05:43 <Jake42-2> because of the "it works"
Jan 19 14:05:50 <Jake42-2> when I access 127.0.0.1
Jan 19 14:05:51 <ccooke> okay. Let's try this, then
Jan 19 14:05:59 <ccooke> try running this on your n810:
Jan 19 14:06:07 <ccooke> find / -name '*php*.so'
Jan 19 14:06:14 <ccooke> run it as root, please
Jan 19 14:06:21 <ccooke> and be aware that it could take quite a while!
Jan 19 14:07:12 <Jake42-2> it says
Jan 19 14:07:32 <Jake42-2> find : /mnt/initfs/sys/module/nousb/parameters/
Jan 19 14:08:01 <Jake42-2> find: /sys/module/nousb/parameters/
Jan 19 14:08:08 <Jake42-2> and next to each of it
Jan 19 14:08:12 <Jake42-2> it says
Jan 19 14:08:17 <Jake42-2> too many open files
Jan 19 14:08:27 <ccooke> heh
Jan 19 14:08:32 <ccooke> still running?
Jan 19 14:08:37 <ccooke> leave it for now.
Jan 19 14:08:44 <ccooke> see if it actually finds the file
Jan 19 14:08:44 <Jake42-2> no, it finished
Jan 19 14:09:18 <Jake42-2> which file? lib apache2-mod-php5 ?
Jan 19 14:09:29 <ccooke> okay. you don't currently have an apache module for php installed, then
Jan 19 14:10:32 <Jake42-2> then?
Jan 19 14:11:40 <ccooke> which means the fast apache route won't work.
Jan 19 14:11:54 <ccooke> did you find the names of the php packages you installed, yet?
Jan 19 14:12:16 <Jake42-2> what do you mean?
Jan 19 14:12:31 <Jake42-2> the names of the install-files?
Jan 19 14:14:03 <ccooke> on your n810, please run this:
Jan 19 14:14:04 <ccooke> dpkg -l '*php*'
Jan 19 14:14:31 <ccooke> that'll tell us all the packages with pho in the name which your local package manager knows about
Jan 19 14:15:24 <Jake42-2> php5-fastcgi
Jan 19 14:15:38 <Jake42-2> (only :(  )
Jan 19 14:15:57 <ccooke> okay, good
Jan 19 14:16:04 <Stskeeps> X-Fade: btw, what does it take to get a blog on planet maemo?
Jan 19 14:16:28 <ccooke> fastcgi is one of the methods which you can connect a language module like php5 with a web server
Jan 19 14:16:44 <Stskeeps> X-Fade: as in, getting it aggreated ;)
Jan 19 14:17:02 <ccooke> it's a specific transport, though - the php scripts will run as their own process instead of inside apache.
Jan 19 14:17:27 <Jake42-2> I suppose something more is needed
Jan 19 14:17:31 <Jake42-2> next?
Jan 19 14:17:37 <ccooke> I'd recommend checking the lighttpd configuration for that - it's supposed to be very good with fastcgi
Jan 19 14:17:52 <ccooke> I suggest you remove apache and get lighttpd running.
Jan 19 14:18:14 <Jake42-2> ok
Jan 19 14:18:20 <Jake42-2> how is it done?
Jan 19 14:18:29 <Jake42-2> (how...)
Jan 19 14:18:43 <ccooke> well, you can remove apache in your package manager.
Jan 19 14:19:10 <ccooke> I'm afraid I've not configured lighttpd recently enough to have it in my memory, so you're probably best checking with google.
Jan 19 14:19:24 <ccooke> the ligthtpd docs are pretty good, though - check their wiki.
Jan 19 14:20:23 <Jake42-2> but they are the same on N810?
Jan 19 14:22:17 <Khertan_n810> hy i can't do a nice ui in gtk ?
Jan 19 14:22:20 <Khertan_n810> why
Jan 19 14:22:25 <Jake42-2> ccooke how may I uninstall apache?
Jan 19 14:22:32 <Jake42-2> (application manager?)
Jan 19 14:22:35 <Khertan_n810> apt-get remove apache
Jan 19 14:22:38 <Stskeeps> gtk is just a marketing ploy to get people to use Qt? ;)
Jan 19 14:22:51 <Khertan_n810> stskeeps ... hum ...
Jan 19 14:23:11 <Khertan_n810> stskeeps ... how can i make really finger friendly ui in Qt ?
Jan 19 14:23:18 <Khertan_n810> :)
Jan 19 14:23:27 <Stskeeps> no clue, but Qt for Maemo should theme like hildon i guess
Jan 19 14:23:35 <Stskeeps> but i dunno
Jan 19 14:24:14 * Khertan_n810 dream of a framework which enable him to do ui with html/css
Jan 19 14:24:34 * Khertan_n810 dream this framework have nice python binding
Jan 19 14:24:34 <Stskeeps> well
Jan 19 14:24:38 <Stskeeps> it is certainly possible :P
Jan 19 14:25:27 <X-Fade> Khertan_n810: I have seen job offerings for the web runtime team, so it looks like there will be a web runtime some time in the future ;)
Jan 19 14:25:58 <Jake42-2> ccooke... do you know how it should be done?
Jan 19 14:26:34 <Khertan_n810> X-Fade > there will be one ...
Jan 19 14:26:44 <Khertan_n810> there will be one in each device
Jan 19 14:26:51 <Khertan_n810> just a matter o f time
Jan 19 14:27:05 * Khertan_n810 is more and more looking at the palm pre :)
Jan 19 14:29:38 <Khertan_n810> http://code.google.com/p/pyjamas/ ?
Jan 19 14:29:40 <Khertan_n810> maybe
Jan 19 14:30:25 <Stskeeps> Khertan_n810: pyjamas was basically GWT for python, wasn't it?
Jan 19 14:30:29 <Stskeeps> did you see PyPy's javascript demos?
Jan 19 14:30:33 <Khertan_n810> http://pyjd.sourceforge.net/
Jan 19 14:30:42 <Khertan_n810> nope :)
Jan 19 14:30:53 <xorAxAx> but pypy translates rpython and not python
Jan 19 14:31:09 <Khertan_n810> and pyjama is not what i m looking too ...
Jan 19 14:31:20 <Khertan_n810> it s translate python into javascript
Jan 19 14:31:23 <Stskeeps> xorAxAx: yeah, true, but still interesting concept :)
Jan 19 14:31:25 <Khertan_n810> not what i m looking for
Jan 19 14:31:55 <Khertan_n810> hum ... what is rpython ?
Jan 19 14:32:26 <Stskeeps> Khertan_n810: i think the main problem with html widgets as such is the speed
Jan 19 14:32:43 <Khertan_n810> stskeeps ...
Jan 19 14:32:52 <Khertan_n810> unfortunatly
Jan 19 14:33:30 <Khertan_n810> but when i look at the current look of mCalendar ...
Jan 19 14:33:40 <Khertan_n810> it s clearly not a good ui !
Jan 19 14:34:27 <Stskeeps> well, you can always code your own widgets
Jan 19 14:35:27 <Stskeeps> then again
Jan 19 14:35:32 <Stskeeps> i'm an idiot at UIs :)
Jan 19 14:36:01 <Khertan_n810> and i'm a really poor designer
Jan 19 14:36:02 <Stskeeps> Khertan_n810: http://khertan.net/index.php/pages/mCalendar accurate screenshot?
Jan 19 14:36:07 <Stskeeps> if so, that's actually good touch wise
Jan 19 14:36:13 <Stskeeps> it does exactly what it should
Jan 19 14:36:28 <X-Fade> And there is more possible with qt widgets in the near future ;)
Jan 19 14:36:33 <Khertan_n810> yep ... but the problem is the week view
Jan 19 14:36:49 <Stskeeps> week view is difficult on such a small screen
Jan 19 14:36:54 <Khertan_n810> yep
Jan 19 14:36:55 <Stskeeps> its even a problem at 1024x768
Jan 19 14:37:05 * Stskeeps tries to get pygtk building
Jan 19 14:37:11 <Khertan_n810> héhé
Jan 19 14:37:12 <Khertan_n810> :)
Jan 19 14:37:30 <Stskeeps> if it can get working, mcalendar should be part ;)
Jan 19 14:37:46 <Khertan_n810> hum ... wait for the next version :)
Jan 19 14:39:26 <Stskeeps> hehe
Jan 19 14:39:44 <Khertan_n810> http://khertan.net/poubelle/mcalendar_desktop.png <-- a try to run it on my desktop
Jan 19 14:40:45 * Khertan_n810 still think on how notify to the user that a sync is running in the background
Jan 19 14:40:49 <Jaffa> Khertan_n810: nice ubuntu theme, and mini-panels. Qu'est que c'est?
Jan 19 14:41:09 <aquatix> Khertan_n810: are those widgets at the right gdesklets?
Jan 19 14:41:42 <Khertan_n810> this is google desktop sidebar
Jan 19 14:41:48 <aquatix> ah
Jan 19 14:41:54 <Khertan_n810> there is transparency has i ve compiled myself :)
Jan 19 14:42:14 <aquatix> looks a bit off; the scrollbars are windows-y
Jan 19 14:42:20 <Khertan_n810> gdesklet crash too often on my computer
Jan 19 14:42:43 * aquatix sticks with normal panels
Jan 19 14:43:07 <Khertan_n810> aquatix: this is the style of sidebar in webkit :)
Jan 19 14:43:43 <aquatix> Khertan_n810: ah
Jan 19 14:43:48 <aquatix> it's in your gtk theme?
Jan 19 14:44:02 <Khertan_n810> i think
Jan 19 14:44:07 <Khertan_n810> don't remember
Jan 19 14:44:12 <Khertan_n810> i ve this one this one year
Jan 19 14:44:28 <Khertan_n810> and don't have the time to touch my computer often
Jan 19 14:47:03 <Guest48506> anyone working with libnotify on maemo?
Jan 19 14:47:40 <slonopotamus> Stskeeps, do you have any docs on what hacks should be applied to gtk apps so they start supporting virtual keyboard?
Jan 19 14:50:36 <Stskeeps> slonopotamus: basically just compiling hildon input method and pointing gtk to it
Jan 19 14:50:38 <Stskeeps> afaik
Jan 19 14:50:41 <Stskeeps> and using matchbox wm
Jan 19 14:51:08 <slonopotamus> Stskeeps, what do you mean by "pointing gtk to it"?
Jan 19 14:51:41 <Stskeeps> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mer-committers/m-r/hildon-desktop-env/annotate/head%3A/debian/postinst
Jan 19 14:52:55 <slonopotamus> omg :) crazy hacks
Jan 19 14:53:37 <Stskeeps> it was worse figuring out how to do it
Jan 19 14:54:08 <Khertan_n810> hum ... there is no gtk widget which display a spinning wheel ?
Jan 19 14:54:18 <Stskeeps> animation cursor? :P
Jan 19 14:54:18 <Khertan_n810> just progress bar ? right ?
Jan 19 14:54:41 <Stskeeps> Khertan_n810: btw you made a tool for easy packaging of python apps for maemo?
Jan 19 14:54:44 <slonopotamus> Stskeeps, btw. did you try matchbox-keyboard?
Jan 19 14:54:49 <Stskeeps> slonopotamus: yeah
Jan 19 14:54:57 <Stskeeps> it gets annoying as its not so integrated
Jan 19 14:58:14 <Stskeeps> Meizirkki_: can i get you to test pygtk in a little while?
Jan 19 14:58:23 <Stskeeps> when it comes through builder
Jan 19 14:58:28 <Meizirkki_> arm or x86?
Jan 19 14:58:33 <Stskeeps> either one is good
Jan 19 14:58:37 <slonopotamus> Stskeeps, does it at least popup when you enter focus in textfield? :)
Jan 19 14:58:37 <Meizirkki_> arm: yes
Jan 19 14:58:44 <Stskeeps> slonopotamus: MB? no
Jan 19 14:58:53 <slonopotamus> Stskeeps, oh.
Jan 19 14:59:01 <slonopotamus> Stskeeps, that's a major disadvantage
Jan 19 14:59:02 <Meizirkki_> x86: i am unpacking mer 0.6 in virtualbox
Jan 19 14:59:24 <Khertan_n810> Stskeeps > yep
Jan 19 14:59:39 <Khertan_n810> stskeeps: why ?
Jan 19 14:59:50 <Stskeeps> Khertan_n810: because as part of Mer cleanup we might have to use other debian package names for some things
Jan 19 15:00:00 <Stskeeps> and if most people use your stuff for their python apps..
Jan 19 15:00:09 <Stskeeps> then it could be useful to have a Mer mode eventually ;)
Jan 19 15:00:27 <Khertan_n810> what you mean by other debian package names ?
Jan 19 15:00:48 <Stskeeps> well, for instance, in Mer it's python-gtk2 debian package name
Jan 19 15:01:18 <Stskeeps> whereas in maemo it's python2.5-gtk2
Jan 19 15:01:20 <Khertan_n810> ah and in maemo it s python2.5-gtk2
Jan 19 15:01:23 <Stskeeps> yes
Jan 19 15:01:28 <Stskeeps> and the list goes on
Jan 19 15:01:32 <Khertan_n810> hum ... so it s mean doing two package
Jan 19 15:01:40 <Khertan_n810> one for mer and the other for maemo
Jan 19 15:01:45 <Stskeeps> yeah
Jan 19 15:01:50 <Khertan_n810> hum ...
Jan 19 15:02:00 <Stskeeps> and that's stupid, but it is a lot more difficult to move ubuntu, than to move maemo ways :P
Jan 19 15:02:01 <Khertan_n810> i think we can avoid that with meta package ?
Jan 19 15:02:05 <Stskeeps> possibly
Jan 19 15:02:14 <Stskeeps> i thought of a big metapackage :P
Jan 19 15:02:30 <Passeli> how do i set application to look libraries from user defined path?
Jan 19 15:02:38 <Khertan_n810> than we can be able to install directly maemo apps done in python from extras repository
Jan 19 15:02:41 <Stskeeps> yeah
Jan 19 15:02:54 <Khertan_n810> why big ?
Jan 19 15:03:00 <Stskeeps> well, ok, small :P
Jan 19 15:03:07 <Stskeeps> big as in representing many small packages ;)
Jan 19 15:03:10 <Khertan_n810> just one small with many depandancies
Jan 19 15:03:20 <Khertan_n810> or many small :)
Jan 19 15:06:09 <Wooly> can I dismiss a hildon banner by clicking on it?
Jan 19 15:06:40 <Wooly> or rather, is there any way that I can dismiss the banner by clicking on it?
Jan 19 15:08:11 <Meizirkki_> phew, i finally got my virtualbox-mer :P
Jan 19 15:08:21 <Stskeeps> woo
Jan 19 15:10:27 <opengeekv2> hey can i test it?
Jan 19 15:10:54 <Stskeeps> yeah, there's a Virtual Disk Image you can download for Virtualbox
Jan 19 15:11:05 <opengeekv2> where is it?
Jan 19 15:11:08 <Stskeeps> http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer_Blueprint#Mer_0.6
Jan 19 15:11:11 <Stskeeps> plenty of possibilities
Jan 19 15:13:06 <Khertan_n810> Someone have try the last version of mNotes available in extras-devel ?
Jan 19 15:13:13 <Khertan_n810> what do you think of it ?
Jan 19 15:13:49 <aquatix> mNotes syncs with google notebook?
Jan 19 15:18:32 <Wooly> is there any way that I can dismiss the banner by clicking on it?
Jan 19 15:20:49 <Stskeeps> Meizirkki: i386 pygtk built
Jan 19 15:21:10 <Stskeeps> Meizirkki: i386 pygtk built
Jan 19 15:21:18 <Meizirkki_> ok
Jan 19 15:21:19 <Stskeeps> let's see if armel works too
Jan 19 15:21:36 <Wooly> has anyone used libnotify1?
Jan 19 15:21:37 * Meizirkki_ boots up mer in virtualbox
Jan 19 15:21:38 <Khertan_n810> ...
Jan 19 15:21:48 <Stskeeps> Khertan_n810: mm?
Jan 19 15:22:12 <Khertan_n810> aquatix : mnotes doesn't sync with google notebook has this service will disappear
Jan 19 15:22:17 <Khertan_n810> s/has/as
Jan 19 15:22:21 <aquatix> yeah
Jan 19 15:22:28 <Stskeeps> Khertan_n810: oh, you should consider an application that interfaces with EverNote
Jan 19 15:22:28 <aquatix> that was my next remark :)
Jan 19 15:22:32 <Stskeeps> they have IMAP access
Jan 19 15:22:33 <aquatix> Stskeeps: indeed
Jan 19 15:22:36 <Stskeeps> that would be a kickass application
Jan 19 15:22:51 <Stskeeps> and i'd even pay 10 eur for it :P
Jan 19 15:22:56 <Khertan_n810> stskeeps: "les's see if armel works too"
Jan 19 15:23:09 <LinuxHack3r> So on my Nokia 810 I bought yesterday...will I be able to install adblock plus, scribus, and del.icio.us in the mozilla based browser?
Jan 19 15:23:11 <Khertan_n810> stskeep : for what ? google notebook sync ?
Jan 19 15:23:13 <Stskeeps> Khertan_n810: yeah, we compile on x86 first to see the worst errors, then in scratchbox
Jan 19 15:23:21 <Stskeeps> speaking of PyGTK compile :)
Jan 19 15:23:37 <Stskeeps> qwerty12: if i have a building libvte, will you experiment with putting maemo changes on top?
Jan 19 15:24:06 <qwerty12> Stskeeps, sure
Jan 19 15:24:24 <Khertan_n810> pygtk compile : yep this is why i say : '...' ... as i m waiting the result :)
Jan 19 15:24:33 <Khertan_n810> and for evernote ... don't know it
Jan 19 15:24:43 <Stskeeps> Khertan_n810: http://evernote.com/
Jan 19 15:24:54 <Khertan_n810> http://www.evernote.com/about/what_is_en/
Jan 19 15:24:57 <Stskeeps> it already has windows mobile, iphone connection, but not tablet :(
Jan 19 15:24:59 <Khertan_n810> i look
Jan 19 15:25:04 <Stskeeps> they all use the IMAP connection
Jan 19 15:25:09 <Stskeeps> it would -really- be a killer app
Jan 19 15:25:13 <johnx> what format are 'notes' kept in?
Jan 19 15:25:43 <Stskeeps> not sure
Jan 19 15:26:04 <johnx> i was looking at mono earlier to see if i could make tomboy run
Jan 19 15:26:19 <Stskeeps> html it looks like
Jan 19 15:26:22 <Khertan_n810> which note ?
Jan 19 15:26:27 <Khertan_n810> evernote or mnotes ?
Jan 19 15:26:28 <johnx> ah, well that'd be nice
Jan 19 15:26:35 <Khertan_n810> oh my god no !
Jan 19 15:27:07 <johnx> Stskeeps, guess he's not interested :)
Jan 19 15:27:36 <qwerty12> Stskeeps, if you get a working osso-xterm in there, you have to get dnstase's overlayed transparent keyboard mod :)
Jan 19 15:27:42 <Khertan_n810> maybe but text only rendering
Jan 19 15:27:44 <lcuk> i think it was the mono reference that gave khertan the heartattack ;)
Jan 19 15:28:19 <Khertan_n810> lcuk : indeed ... but the html things too :)
Jan 19 15:28:29 <Stskeeps> Khertan_n810: i maintain it would be a killer app
Jan 19 15:28:36 <Stskeeps> especially with upload
Jan 19 15:28:37 <lcuk> nothing wrong with html, its just pretty xml :)
Jan 19 15:28:43 <Wooly> does anyone have notify-send?
Jan 19 15:28:47 <Khertan_n810> as i don't have yet a good html renderer with python binding
Jan 19 15:28:48 <lcuk> forests of overlapping trees
Jan 19 15:29:06 <Khertan_n810> stskeeps ... i think
Jan 19 15:29:07 <Khertan_n810> too
Jan 19 15:29:19 <Khertan_n810> but i m waiting my registration email :)
Jan 19 15:29:25 <lcuk> Khertan_n810, dont you have the core pygtkeditor thingy? isnt that got html formatting/display in it
Jan 19 15:29:28 <johnx> as for mono, I don't care what language an app is written in, as long as it works
Jan 19 15:29:34 <lcuk> or was that a core tool you brought from other system?
Jan 19 15:29:57 <johnx> unless it's vb :)
Jan 19 15:30:11 * lcuk slaps johnx with an end sub
Jan 19 15:30:21 <Khertan_n810> johnx : "as long as it works" this is the problem with mono
Jan 19 15:30:35 <johnx> well, tomboy notes works great on the desktop
Jan 19 15:30:37 <Khertan_n810> hum ... evernotes is slow to load ?
Jan 19 15:30:51 <Khertan_n810> 60s for loading a page ...
Jan 19 15:30:59 <Meizirkki> Stskeeps: what's the packagename for pygtk?
Jan 19 15:31:02 <johnx> quicknote works well enough on the tablet, though I'll try out mnotes if it can sync to something or easily export
Jan 19 15:31:05 <Khertan_n810> or does is it incompatible with webkit ?
Jan 19 15:31:07 <Stskeeps> Meizirkki: python-gtk2
Jan 19 15:31:12 <Meizirkki> ok
Jan 19 15:31:27 <Khertan_n810> johnx: quicknote don't take draw or cam screenshot :)
Jan 19 15:31:41 <johnx> which is fine for me :)
Jan 19 15:31:59 <johnx> all I want to do is take some notes on the tablet, then sync them to my desktop
Jan 19 15:31:59 <Stskeeps> xournal + upload to evernote would make me switch from onenote
Jan 19 15:32:00 <Stskeeps> :P
Jan 19 15:32:16 <Khertan_n810> hum ... evernote is html
Jan 19 15:33:02 <lcuk> johnx, im 90% done with that :)
Jan 19 15:33:05 <Khertan_n810> i don't think doing html wysiwyg on the nit will be not slow
Jan 19 15:33:18 <RST38h> urgh
Jan 19 15:33:34 <johnx> lcuk, as text? or as pictures?
Jan 19 15:34:09 <lcuk> pictures + sketches for now, ive just finished all the dynamic scaling font code i needed
Jan 19 15:34:20 <Stskeeps> we have pygtk!
Jan 19 15:34:24 <Stskeeps> on x86 at least
Jan 19 15:34:48 <johnx> very cool :)
Jan 19 15:34:49 * RST38h has pygtk in x86 Ubuntu
Jan 19 15:34:55 <Khertan_n810> - Stronger security via SSL <--- only with paid version
Jan 19 15:34:58 <Khertan_n810> this suck
Jan 19 15:35:04 <Meizirkki> Stskeeps: i'm not sure if this is related to pygtk, but X refused to start
Jan 19 15:35:09 <Stskeeps> Khertan_n810: have to make their money somehow
Jan 19 15:35:11 <Stskeeps> Meizirkki: weird
Jan 19 15:35:12 <RST38h> Khertan: What is the product?
Jan 19 15:35:24 <Meizirkki> Stskeeps: i'm gonna reboot to see if it comes up
Jan 19 15:35:37 <Khertan_n810> rst38h: evernote
Jan 19 15:35:43 <RST38h> ah
Jan 19 15:36:42 <lcuk> johnx, just finished last night making sure i could specify a font in pt size and scale and render at any resolution, this is my test page showing dynamic resizing of widgets http://liqbase.net/liq.20090119_002738.lib.scr.png  it shows image scaling, sketch scaling and text scaling - all instances of the widget can be made live and rendered in realtime at any scale :)
Jan 19 15:36:55 <Khertan_n810> i'm sorry ... but they use a strange markup language for evernote !
Jan 19 15:37:02 <Khertan_n810> not real html ...
Jan 19 15:37:04 <Stskeeps> hehe
Jan 19 15:37:13 <Stskeeps> Khertan_n810: seemed like it was accessible though
Jan 19 15:37:17 <Stskeeps> in the imap interface
Jan 19 15:37:20 <Khertan_n810> but a mix of xhtml and stupid idea
Jan 19 15:38:00 <Stskeeps> as normal email applications can access it
Jan 19 15:38:22 <johnx> lcuk, very cool. so will it be liqnotes or part of liqsketch?
Jan 19 15:39:06 <Khertan_n810> sure ?
Jan 19 15:39:17 <lcuk> this is the core ui ive been aiming towards, the library.  with it im gonna be bringing in liqsketch and liqreader and i might be evil and do a fully dynamic calendar
Jan 19 15:39:18 <Khertan_n810> i don't see it anywhere in the dev references
Jan 19 15:39:28 <lcuk> theres loads of practical things that can be done with it
Jan 19 15:39:29 <Stskeeps> Khertan_n810: i guess it's a matter of trying to connect to it with imap
Jan 19 15:39:33 <Stskeeps> and see what kind of format it spits out
Jan 19 15:39:38 <Khertan_n810> lcuk ? a calendar ?
Jan 19 15:39:43 <Khertan_n810> you are interesting me
Jan 19 15:40:07 <lcuk> ive been telling you for months this is what i wanted khertan
Jan 19 15:40:22 <lcuk> i told you i know nothing about talking to google etc and you are great at it
Jan 19 15:40:33 <lcuk> i really want to give you a uyi front end to play with and let you work on the backend
Jan 19 15:40:51 <lcuk> same with barcodes and other pim aspects and bookreaders and email and all sorts of apps
Jan 19 15:41:36 * lcuk is working as fast as he can to deliver something that looks good and works well on this device for ALL of us
Jan 19 15:41:45 <Khertan_n810> héhé
Jan 19 15:41:58 <Khertan_n810> do as you can ... same problem here ;)
Jan 19 15:42:14 <lcuk> we are working from opposite ends khertan, i hope we meet in the middle :)
Jan 19 15:42:23 <Khertan_n810> hope too :)
Jan 19 15:42:46 <Khertan_n810> stskeeps : i m sorry ... but i don't like evernotes ...
Jan 19 15:43:02 * lcuk will handle the sketching ;)
Jan 19 15:43:06 <lcuk> i have plans for that
Jan 19 15:43:10 <Stskeeps> Khertan_n810: mmkay
Jan 19 15:43:34 <Meizirkki> How can i test pygtk?
Jan 19 15:43:42 <johnx> Khertan_n810, so what format does mnotes use?
Jan 19 15:43:56 <Khertan_n810> stskeeps : they are using a special format that will too slow to render in the tablet
Jan 19 15:44:01 <Khertan_n810> johnx ... text :)
Jan 19 15:44:07 <Khertan_n810> utf8 :)
Jan 19 15:44:11 <johnx> ok, that's a start :)
Jan 19 15:44:26 <Khertan_n810> and png for sketch and jpg for cam screenshot
Jan 19 15:44:28 <Stskeeps> Meizirkki: http://rafb.net/p/C1McR029.html
Jan 19 15:44:41 <Stskeeps> put it in test.py and python test.py from inside roxterm or whatever
Jan 19 15:44:55 <Meizirkki> ok
Jan 19 15:45:06 <Khertan_n810> type import pygtk in python interpreter
Jan 19 15:45:11 <Meizirkki> Stskeeps: panel transparency is gone
Jan 19 15:45:12 <Khertan_n810> it ll be a good start :)
Jan 19 15:45:39 <Khertan_n810> then "import hildon"
Jan 19 15:45:49 <Stskeeps> Khertan_n810: we dont have hildon just yetg
Jan 19 15:45:52 <Stskeeps> gtk is first step :)
Jan 19 15:45:54 <Khertan_n810> ah :)
Jan 19 15:46:11 <Khertan_n810> so gtk.Window5°.show5°
Jan 19 15:46:24 <Khertan_n810> 5 and ° are parenthesis
Jan 19 15:46:25 <Khertan_n810> :)
Jan 19 15:46:42 <johnx> thoughts about showing the root password as it's typed in first-boot-wizard for mer?
Jan 19 15:47:00 <Stskeeps> johnx: zenity will use the typical method of *'ing out after showing character typed
Jan 19 15:47:04 <Stskeeps> AFAIK
Jan 19 15:47:04 * Khertan_n810 is thinking of doing is own web site with notes , agenda ... and tasks
Jan 19 15:47:10 <johnx> hmm? neat
Jan 19 15:47:13 <johnx> I had no idea
Jan 19 15:47:19 <Stskeeps> johnx: nokia way :P
Jan 19 15:47:52 <johnx> woo!
Jan 19 15:49:54 <Jaffa> Yay, another fixed-width vs. fluid-width vs. proportional-width argument at work.
Jan 19 15:50:22 <Meizirkki> Stskeeps: it seems to work...
Jan 19 15:50:26 <Stskeeps> Meizirkki: woo
Jan 19 15:50:27 <johnx> Jaffa, shoot the ones that think fixed width is a good idea in 2009. have the discussion with the rest of them
Jan 19 15:50:31 <Meizirkki> i upload a screenshot about it?
Jan 19 15:50:36 <Stskeeps> Meizirkki: sure
Jan 19 15:50:50 * Stskeeps waits for armel build
Jan 19 15:50:53 <X-Fade> Jaffa: Buy a full hd screen or higher resolution and you have your answer ready ;)
Jan 19 15:51:26 <Khertan_n810> stskeeps ... ok you provide me pygtk in mer ... and i try to sync mnotes with evernotes
Jan 19 15:51:40 <Khertan_n810> maybe you will not be able to edit html notes ...
Jan 19 15:51:45 <Stskeeps> hehe, that's fine
Jan 19 15:51:48 <Stskeeps> i didnt say edit, just export
Jan 19 15:51:50 <Khertan_n810> but you ll be able to see it at least
Jan 19 15:51:51 <Stskeeps> or perhaps view
Jan 19 15:52:11 <Khertan_n810> if you want just export it should be simple
Jan 19 15:52:40 <Khertan_n810> as you can import it in evernote with just an email
Jan 19 15:52:43 <Meizirkki> Stskeeps: http://trac.tspre.org/meiz/screenshots/pygtk.png
Jan 19 15:52:49 <Khertan_n810> but i prefer to do a sync ... it ll be better
Jan 19 15:52:51 <Jaffa> X-Fade/johnx: I've logged in during my paternity leave to weigh in. Our designers (plural, now :-/) want everything to be exactly as they lay it out, so that their usable designs don't get made unusable by silly users just always maximising their browser windows.
Jan 19 15:52:53 <Stskeeps> Meizirkki: ta :)
Jan 19 15:52:53 <Meizirkki> it looks alright?
Jan 19 15:52:58 <Khertan_n810> GREAT !
Jan 19 15:53:02 * Jaffa goes back to MUD. Much more fun
Jan 19 15:53:09 <Khertan_n810> need hildon binding now :)
Jan 19 15:53:28 <Khertan_n810> jaffa : could you try to compile gtksourceview with mud ?
Jan 19 15:53:29 <X-Fade> Jaffa: Oh, yeah.. Exactly as layed out..  There's flash for that ;)
Jan 19 15:53:39 <Jaffa> X-Fade: or PDF.
Jan 19 15:53:44 <Khertan_n810> and his python binding to upload them to extra repository ?
Jan 19 15:54:26 <Stskeeps> johnx: heh, 30 minutes to build pygtk on armel so far
Jan 19 15:54:35 <Stskeeps> johnx: but it succeeded :)
Jan 19 15:54:39 <johnx> well, let's hope it works the first time :)
Jan 19 15:54:59 <Meizirkki> arm built already?
Jan 19 15:55:13 <Meizirkki> s/arm/pygtk for arm/
Jan 19 15:55:13 <Stskeeps> 30 minutes build time, "built already", pfft :P
Jan 19 15:55:16 <Stskeeps> yes
Jan 19 15:55:21 <Stskeeps> please test on there too if you can :)
Jan 19 15:55:31 <Meizirkki> okay
Jan 19 15:55:47 <Stskeeps> back in the days it took 48 hours to compile gtk!
Jan 19 15:55:47 <Stskeeps> :P
Jan 19 15:55:47 <Jaffa> Khertan_n810: Oh, joy. The Debian package has masses of build-depends.
Jan 19 15:56:03 <Khertan_n810> :)
Jan 19 15:56:08 <Stskeeps> Jaffa: MUD's purpose is basically to take debian packages, try to build them for maemo easily?
Jan 19 15:56:22 <Stskeeps> or what is it again?
Jan 19 15:56:53 * qwerty12 curses the MicroB way of building packages of extensions
Jan 19 15:57:38 <Jaffa> Stskeeps: make packages easily, from upstream tarballs or Debian, or svn, or ...
Jan 19 15:57:43 <Stskeeps> k
Jan 19 15:57:51 <slonopotamus> Stskeeps, do you use maemo version of gtk? as far as i understood they did something bad to it?
Jan 19 15:58:00 <Stskeeps> slonopotamus: depends on perspective
Jan 19 15:58:02 <Stskeeps> it's getting better
Jan 19 15:58:27 <Stskeeps> there's getting less and less deltas
Jan 19 15:58:46 <johnx> slonopotamus, they did things to it that make it more usable with hildon and on the tablet, but they are changes that don't make sense for most desktop distributions
Jan 19 15:58:48 <slonopotamus> Stskeeps, i mean it's patched, right?
Jan 19 15:59:05 <Stskeeps> yes, it's patched from their side :)
Jan 19 15:59:11 <Stskeeps> and a bit from ours i think
Jan 19 15:59:25 <Stskeeps> http://code.launchpad.net/m-r <- good place to start
Jan 19 16:00:42 <slonopotamus> bazaar... ok, my gentoo can do bazaar ;)
Jan 19 16:01:19 <slonopotamus> 104 branches o_O
Jan 19 16:01:38 <Khertan_n810> http://xml.evernote.com/pub/evernote-export.dtd
Jan 19 16:01:39 <Khertan_n810> pfff
Jan 19 16:02:00 <Stskeeps> slonopotamus: we've been fucking busy :P
Jan 19 16:02:55 <slonopotamus> Stskeeps, what prefix do main branches have? i see several hildon-desktop, for example
Jan 19 16:03:14 <Stskeeps> slonopotamus: that was because suddenly we got hit by fremantle alpha sdk and unupdated SVN branches
Jan 19 16:03:27 <Stskeeps> usually, mer-committers is the top one
Jan 19 16:03:40 <slonopotamus> and why on earth it isn't alphabetically sorted
Jan 19 16:03:55 <slonopotamus> k. mer-committers.
Jan 19 16:04:11 <johnx> slonopotamus, always follow the latest revision. if it's stuff Stskeeps and I both work on it's in mer-committers
Jan 19 16:04:24 <Stskeeps> (or r2d2rogers, imager) :P
Jan 19 16:04:32 <slonopotamus> johnx, ok
Jan 19 16:04:44 <slonopotamus> johnx, do you have source repo?
Jan 19 16:05:07 <Stskeeps> http://repository.mer.tspre.org/pool/ has sources in them for 90% of the stuff
Jan 19 16:05:16 <slonopotamus> thx
Jan 19 16:05:22 <Stskeeps> last 10% is kernels and some crap that was difficult
Jan 19 16:05:44 * Stskeeps goes check how big the repo is now
Jan 19 16:06:11 <slonopotamus> don't be afraid, i'm not going to download it all ;)
Jan 19 16:06:15 <Stskeeps> 188mb :P
Jan 19 16:06:20 <Stskeeps> not so bad
Jan 19 16:07:31 <slonopotamus> version: 2:2.12.12-1maemo3mer7
Jan 19 16:07:41 <Stskeeps> yes, it gets branchy
Jan 19 16:07:42 <slonopotamus> 2:2.12.12-1maemo3mer7-gentoo1
Jan 19 16:07:51 <slonopotamus> that's crazy
Jan 19 16:08:03 <Stskeeps> http://qgil.jaiku.com/presence/52078129#comments
Jan 19 16:08:19 <Stskeeps> Harmattan and then Ilmatar
Jan 19 16:08:20 <Stskeeps> :P
Jan 19 16:09:39 <slonopotamus> i wonder what you'll do when you add some package to mer and then it will be added to both ubuntu and maemo ;)
Jan 19 16:09:40 <Wooly> is there any way that I can dismiss a hildon banner by clicking on it?
Jan 19 16:09:47 <Stskeeps> Wooly: not sure
Jan 19 16:10:05 <Stskeeps> slonopotamus: madness1
Jan 19 16:10:16 <slonopotamus> muahaha ;)
Jan 19 16:10:43 <Stskeeps> johnx: Madness wouldn't have been a bad name for mer
Jan 19 16:10:44 <Stskeeps> :P
Jan 19 16:10:47 <X-Fade> Wooly: No, that wasn't in the gui spec, I believe ..
Jan 19 16:10:57 <johnx> Stskeeps, testing distro codename maybe?
Jan 19 16:10:59 <X-Fade> There was a bug about that, I seem to recall.
Jan 19 16:11:14 <johnx> so 'stable' 'madness' and 'brick'?
Jan 19 16:11:20 <Wooly> X-Fade: Thanks. Do you know if there is a notification system which allows me to dismiss-by-click?
Jan 19 16:11:32 <slonopotamus> i don't like maemo packages. they don't separate upstream code with their patches
Jan 19 16:11:47 <slonopotamus> that's why your repo is so big
Jan 19 16:12:54 <slonopotamus> this all complicates updating
Jan 19 16:13:43 <X-Fade> Wooly: I have no idea. What bothers you about the current one? The time-out?
Jan 19 16:13:59 <trenka> slonopotamus: I always sepatate upstream code from patches
Jan 19 16:14:08 <Wooly> I need to be able to both leave the messages to time-out, and dismiss by click
Jan 19 16:14:23 <trenka> even if it makes work with VCS more difficult
Jan 19 16:14:23 <slonopotamus> trenka, you're good then ;)
Jan 19 16:14:35 <X-Fade> Wooly: Well you can click on OK buttons orso? System dialogs?
Jan 19 16:14:37 <trenka> slonopotamus: so, your statement is not true
Jan 19 16:14:54 <Wooly> could I place a button inside a banner?
Jan 19 16:15:35 <slonopotamus> trenka, http://repository.mer.tspre.org/pool/main/g/gtk+2.0/gtk+2.0_2.12.12-1maemo3mer7.tar.gz this is ugly
Jan 19 16:15:41 <X-Fade> I leave that to people with more experience ;)
Jan 19 16:15:45 <trenka> I do not maintain gtk, sorry
Jan 19 16:15:54 <Khertan_n810> stskeep : evernote require a developper key ...
Jan 19 16:16:10 <Khertan_n810> stskeeps: and it seems it s a long process to obtain one
Jan 19 16:17:08 <Wooly> X-Fade: thanks anyway :)
Jan 19 16:17:17 <Stskeeps> slonopotamus: hehe, some of the stuff is my fault :)
Jan 19 16:17:22 <Stskeeps> Khertan_n810: hm, think you can use IMAP without
Jan 19 16:17:25 <slonopotamus> trenka, that's 3 levels of patches
Jan 19 16:17:25 <slonopotamus> trenka, debian, maemo and mer
Jan 19 16:17:31 <slonopotamus> trenka, on top of upstream code
Jan 19 16:18:05 <Stskeeps> slonopotamus: if we looked at IRCd code in the same view, it would be insane :>
Jan 19 16:19:16 <Khertan_n810> stskeeps ... if i found how to use imap ... there is nothing about it
Jan 19 16:19:24 <Khertan_n810> maybe only available in non free version
Jan 19 16:22:14 <Stskeeps> Khertan_n810: http://evernote.com/about/support/imap.php
Jan 19 16:23:05 <slonopotamus> it will be fun if i make it possible to run 'emerge mer' or 'emerge maemo' ;)
Jan 19 16:23:15 <Stskeeps> hehe
Jan 19 16:26:23 <Khertan_n810> stskeeps: thans
Jan 19 16:26:25 <Khertan_n810> thx
Jan 19 16:28:14 <rjelari> have a basic question. when you click on folder, whose responsibility to load the data into the model?. is it application side? or any APi is provided by hildonfm ?
Jan 19 16:30:06 <slonopotamus> 'Diablo kernel that boots from rootfs instead of initfs, and runs /sbin/tablet-init instead of init' why you didn't like /sbin/init?
Jan 19 16:30:23 <Stskeeps> slonopotamus: we wanted to do some things before upstart starts up
Jan 19 16:30:24 <Stskeeps> so
Jan 19 16:30:30 <Stskeeps> we dont have initfs yet so
Jan 19 16:31:38 <Stskeeps> as upstart may take time before starting dsme and hence causing a watchdog reboott
Jan 19 16:32:24 <slonopotamus> oh my
Jan 19 16:32:49 <RST38h> http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/gizmodo/2009/01/11925.jpg
Jan 19 16:34:09 <Stskeeps> RST38h: <3
Jan 19 16:34:17 <lcuk> RST38h, what time is it?
Jan 19 16:34:51 <Stskeeps> bacontime!
Jan 19 16:35:06 <wazd> Just used Nokia E90. Pretty nice device overall I shoud say)
Jan 19 16:35:37 <lcuk> how would you ever get anywhere if it was bacontime all the time
Jan 19 16:35:44 <RST38h> bacontime =)
Jan 19 16:36:02 <RST38h> wazd: and it looks like a gunholder when in your pocket
Jan 19 16:36:30 <wazd> And my ISP bought ticket to some cazy gay cruise ship so I have to use gprs even at home
Jan 19 16:36:50 <RST38h> Is it RINET by any chance?
Jan 19 16:37:13 <opengeekv2> hi wazd
Jan 19 16:37:24 <wazd> RST38h: maybe) but the keyboard felt really comfy
Jan 19 16:37:24 <opengeekv2> have you seen my comment
Jan 19 16:37:31 <lcuk> right, ill be back at quarter past bacontime
Jan 19 16:37:37 <wazd> Rst38h: yeah)
Jan 19 16:37:53 <slonopotamus> oh no :( openoffice is masked in gentoo for arm
Jan 19 16:38:00 <Stskeeps> qwerty12: did you ever see an error like http://trac.tspre.org:8000/vte=1:0.17.4-0ubuntu1mer2_jaunty-armel-1232381310.log
Jan 19 16:38:03 <opengeekv2> ?
Jan 19 16:38:05 <Stskeeps> (the bottom)
Jan 19 16:38:25 <RST38h> wazd: Weird, it was once a very decent ISP with lots of high-internet-profile clients
Jan 19 16:38:39 <qwerty12> Stskeeps, nope :/
Jan 19 16:38:51 <slonopotamus> 1:0.17.4-0ubuntu1mer2_jaunty. oh my.
Jan 19 16:38:56 <qwerty12> Stskeeps, this is a shared lib?
Jan 19 16:39:02 <Stskeeps> qwerty12: yes
Jan 19 16:39:05 <Stskeeps> libvte
Jan 19 16:39:24 <wazd> Rst38h: it still has those clients, but it totally screws up on our house
Jan 19 16:39:31 <slonopotamus> i think you'll get buffer overflow on version length soon
Jan 19 16:39:43 <qwerty12> Stskeeps, is it buildable in sdk?
Jan 19 16:39:43 <wazd> hey opengeekv2
Jan 19 16:39:53 <Stskeeps> qwerty12: yes, but dies in the dh_shlibdeps thing
Jan 19 16:40:05 <Khertan_n810> bye
Jan 19 16:40:11 <qwerty12> Stskeeps, can I dist-upgrade MER_ARMEL? If so, then I could look at it.
Jan 19 16:40:15 <Stskeeps> qwerty12: yeah
Jan 19 16:40:16 <wazd> Rst38h: our house is one of the oldest rinet clients.
Jan 19 16:40:18 <Stskeeps> fakeroot apt-get dist-upgrade
Jan 19 16:40:32 <Meizirkki> pygtk works in n810 too :)
Jan 19 16:40:37 <wazd> So all the hardware is really old
Jan 19 16:40:37 <qwerty12> Stskeeps, cool. Will do so after I finish of packaging wmlbrowser for extras-devel.
Jan 19 16:40:41 <qwerty12> *off
Jan 19 16:40:43 <Stskeeps> qwerty12: alright
Jan 19 16:40:48 <RST38h> wazd: oldest were all dialup ;)
Jan 19 16:40:51 <Stskeeps> qwerty12: it builds fine in x86 so :P
Jan 19 16:41:03 <Stskeeps> i wonder where the old debhelper comes from though
Jan 19 16:41:35 <wazd> Rst38h: well, I'm talking bout dedicated line)
Jan 19 16:41:46 <Stskeeps> oh ffs
Jan 19 16:41:48 <Stskeeps> debian devkit
Jan 19 16:42:31 <wazd> opengeekv2: I saw your comment but I haven't undestood what you were describing(
Jan 19 16:43:11 <wazd> Stskeeps: have you seen my grid layout for menu?)
Jan 19 16:43:36 <Stskeeps> show me
Jan 19 16:44:04 <wazd> I haven't got the link right now
Jan 19 16:44:09 <Stskeeps> alright
Jan 19 16:44:14 <wazd> I'm from n800(
Jan 19 16:45:06 <wazd> But you can find it in logs I think
Jan 19 16:45:27 <qwerty12> http://s59.radikal.ru/i164/0901/e7/74194f8a93f8.jpg
Jan 19 16:45:41 <Stskeeps> wazd: ah, yes! i loved it
Jan 19 16:46:21 <Stskeeps> am i strange for being OK with it being full screen too? like, all the way to the right
Jan 19 16:47:46 <Stskeeps> in rotation less is of course ok too ;)
Jan 19 16:48:02 <wazd> Stskeeps: then it would be irrotatable
Jan 19 16:48:32 <Stskeeps> wazd: technically no :P
Jan 19 16:48:41 <Stskeeps> it would fit with width still
Jan 19 16:49:18 <wazd> Stskeeps: well, you'll have to change icons arrangement, so it would harm UX
Jan 19 16:49:19 <opengeekv2> ok i can try to explain you it via IRC
Jan 19 16:49:38 <opengeekv2> ?
Jan 19 16:50:23 <opengeekv2> here I go...
Jan 19 16:50:36 <opengeekv2> firts i want to ask you something
Jan 19 16:50:41 <wazd> http://s43.radikal.ru/i099/0901/5b/1d7f35bb9bc2.jpg
Jan 19 16:50:56 <wazd> Tech info)
Jan 19 16:51:13 <wazd> opengeekv2: go on)
Jan 19 16:51:41 <opengeekv2> why you pot the app menu in the middle of the top bar?
Jan 19 16:52:35 <wazd> I've explained it in my blog, cause it's not a «hotspot» in current ui
Jan 19 16:53:24 <wazd> So user can just tap in the middle and he would knew what he will trigger
Jan 19 16:54:22 <opengeekv2> yes but a square menu opened in the midel of the app will cover a lo t the"body of the app
Jan 19 16:55:14 <wazd> So what? Why do you need the body of the app when you're interacting with menu, not the app
Jan 19 16:55:39 <opengeekv2> it's true XD
Jan 19 16:56:25 <Wooly> has anyone used libnotify on maemo?
Jan 19 16:56:56 <opengeekv2> and you think that the correct place for it is i the middle and the place of your quicklist is nect to the "mer logo"
Jan 19 16:57:03 <opengeekv2> ok
Jan 19 16:57:43 <opengeekv2> and what if we think in your "quicklist" as a tab browser?
Jan 19 16:58:18 <opengeekv2> each icon is a tab
Jan 19 16:58:39 <opengeekv2> and the tab at left is the current app
Jan 19 16:58:45 <wazd> It acts totally same way as quick switcher in current maemo
Jan 19 16:59:12 <opengeekv2> not exactly
Jan 19 16:59:28 <wazd> It's just horizonal and wider
Jan 19 16:59:46 <opengeekv2> yes
Jan 19 17:00:14 <wazd> But no differences in behavior
Jan 19 17:00:19 <opengeekv2> is like merging the quick switcher  with the tittle and the menu of the app
Jan 19 17:00:50 <opengeekv2> it has a difference when you tap an icon the menu of the app apears
Jan 19 17:01:31 <Stskeeps> b-man|N800: hehe, aren't you always on your n800? ;)
Jan 19 17:01:59 <b-man|N800> yes, i just like to mess with /nick :)
Jan 19 17:02:35 <Stskeeps> FireFox: keep in mind that nickname may be registered
Jan 19 17:02:46 <opengeekv2> its like a "Dock"
Jan 19 17:02:48 <FireFox> ok :)
Jan 19 17:03:06 <wazd> opengeekv2: well, I think it will be not so obvious for maemo users. But that idea sounded here before)
Jan 19 17:03:19 <Stskeeps> Fun: .. and that sudden and pointless nick changes is frowned upon :>
Jan 19 17:03:39 <Fun> hehe
Jan 19 17:03:46 <Stskeeps> right, back to being a grumpy old coder
Jan 19 17:03:47 <Stskeeps> :P
Jan 19 17:04:20 * Fun turns back to b-man
Jan 19 17:04:34 <b-man> done ;)
Jan 19 17:04:48 <wazd> Dock (if we're talking bout OSX one) has a bit different functionality
Jan 19 17:05:22 <opengeekv2> yes
Jan 19 17:06:03 <Wooly> anyone here used libnotify on maemo?
Jan 19 17:06:28 <Stskeeps> Wooly: perhaps your question would be better off asked on the developers list in this case
Jan 19 17:06:30 <qwerty12> Stskeeps, I've finished uploading wmlbrowser to extras-devel so now I can take a look at vte :)
Jan 19 17:06:36 <Stskeeps> qwerty12: alright
Jan 19 17:06:42 <Stskeeps> qwerty12: i suspect it's simply cos it's an old debhelper
Jan 19 17:06:44 <opengeekv2> wazd: more graphically
Jan 19 17:06:54 <Stskeeps> qwerty12: so if you tear your hair out over it, it's probably that
Jan 19 17:06:57 <qwerty12> Stskeeps, hope that's all :)
Jan 19 17:07:01 <Wooly> Stskeeps: will do, although unsure what that means! :D
Jan 19 17:07:06 <Stskeeps> qwerty12: you can check it on x86 and patch it on x86 though
Jan 19 17:07:18 <qwerty12> Wooly, https://lists.maemo.org/mailman//listinfo/maemo-developers
Jan 19 17:07:46 <Wooly> Stskeeps: thanks
Jan 19 17:07:54 <wazd> opengeekv2: not only, it's application manager also. You can run apps or uninstall them from dock
Jan 19 17:08:31 <opengeekv2> |mer icon|current app icon|other oppened apps icons|notification area|minimize|close|
Jan 19 17:09:06 <opengeekv2> tapping on the current app icon will open the aplication menu
Jan 19 17:09:35 <Vulcanis> for?
Jan 19 17:09:38 <lcuk> very busy and confusing for user - do we want another toolstrip or primary uiheader for the user?
Jan 19 17:09:45 <wazd> Rearranging opened applications order is very bad idea
Jan 19 17:10:31 <opengeekv2> why?
Jan 19 17:10:56 <opengeekv2> it is not too different form the wazd desings
Jan 19 17:11:29 <wazd> Cause user remembers the order and it's really frustrating if your windows will toss everytime you click on one of them
Jan 19 17:12:47 <opengeekv2> if you swap the position with the current you only have to remember two positions
Jan 19 17:13:17 <opengeekv2> the oter ones remain at the same place
Jan 19 17:13:26 <wazd> And in my variant you only remember one
Jan 19 17:13:35 <opengeekv2> yes
Jan 19 17:14:06 <wazd> So what's the point of that rather confusing actions?)
Jan 19 17:14:36 <opengeekv2> what do you mean?
Jan 19 17:14:48 <wazd> All that icon swaps
Jan 19 17:15:13 <opengeekv2> have the current app at the same place
Jan 19 17:15:15 <roope> Swapping is baaad.
Jan 19 17:15:15 <wazd> I want to have pidgin always in the beginning of the list
Jan 19 17:15:39 <wazd> I can't do that with your layout
Jan 19 17:15:56 <lcuk> why pidgin high priority?
Jan 19 17:16:05 <wazd> Cause it will always jump somewhere
Jan 19 17:16:05 <opengeekv2> pot it on the system tray
Jan 19 17:16:06 <lcuk> especially if its not running
Jan 19 17:16:19 <lcuk> with some fertilizer
Jan 19 17:16:24 <opengeekv2> or notification area
Jan 19 17:16:27 <wazd> Pidgin was an example)
Jan 19 17:16:34 <lcuk> it was an app
Jan 19 17:16:43 <wazd> Yep
Jan 19 17:16:43 <lcuk> thats what the start menu was for
Jan 19 17:16:48 <lcuk> i thought this was about running apps
Jan 19 17:17:04 <opengeekv2> put it on the notification area
Jan 19 17:17:08 <wazd> I need it first in line as a task
Jan 19 17:17:19 <wazd> Running task
Jan 19 17:17:37 <lcuk> why?
Jan 19 17:17:37 <wazd> Ok, I want xterm to be first in task
Jan 19 17:17:56 <opengeekv2> maby this way hackes will understand XD
Jan 19 17:18:03 <wazd> I can't put it into the notifiation area
Jan 19 17:18:10 <lcuk> shouldnt it be a fifo buffer? like windows task doofer and linux task ddoofer and every other task doofer or tab list thingy?
Jan 19 17:18:36 <opengeekv2> can we add a function to block positions?
Jan 19 17:18:57 <lcuk> why? i cant do it on other notification icon thingies
Jan 19 17:18:58 <opengeekv2> like "right cilck" block
Jan 19 17:19:08 <wazd> Lcuk: I don't get your point right now) Do you agree with task swaping in list or not?)
Jan 19 17:19:17 <opengeekv2> wazd+
Jan 19 17:19:54 <roope> Look at the windows task bar.
Jan 19 17:20:05 <roope> The tasks stay still when the user swaps between them.
Jan 19 17:20:09 <roope> it helps task switching.
Jan 19 17:20:29 <wazd> opengeekv2: for what we are doing all that complicated stuff with swaping and position block modes?)
Jan 19 17:21:04 <opengeekv2> to have ever the currnt app menu at the same plane and in a place that no distur the vision of the app
Jan 19 17:21:21 <opengeekv2> plane = place
Jan 19 17:21:49 <wazd> opengeekv2: current app menu is already always in the same place
Jan 19 17:21:55 <lcuk> +1 roope, sorry had to vanish, yes win task bar is expected behaviour
Jan 19 17:22:00 <wazd> In the middle
Jan 19 17:22:01 <lcuk> bbsoon
Jan 19 17:22:04 <lcuk> 1/2hour)
Jan 19 17:22:21 <opengeekv2> in the middle it disturbs
Jan 19 17:22:28 <wazd> Lcuk: and that's my point too)
Jan 19 17:23:41 <wazd> opengeekv2: right now you have task icon on the left and task menu on the top. It's even more disturbing)
Jan 19 17:24:17 <opengeekv2> no i mean i the left of the top XD
Jan 19 17:24:20 * Stskeeps aims a hammer at python2.5-hildon
Jan 19 17:24:48 <opengeekv2> like this
Jan 19 17:24:51 * qwerty12 takes the resulting hit. OUCH.
Jan 19 17:24:54 <opengeekv2> |mer icon|current app icon|other oppened apps icons|notification area|minimize|close|
Jan 19 17:25:24 <wazd> I'm talking bout Diablo layout
Jan 19 17:25:54 <TrueJournals> opengeekv2: I don't see the benefit of that over just highlighting the current app
Jan 19 17:26:34 <opengeekv2> to distinguishe it from other apps ar opened
Jan 19 17:27:16 <Jaffa> The problem with just highlighting is what do you do when the current doesn't fit in the slots? Actually, what does Maemo do there? show no highlight unless you click the >> expander?
Jan 19 17:27:17 <TrueJournals> But doesn't maemo currently do that fine by just highlighting the current app icon?
Jan 19 17:28:27 <TrueJournals> Jaffa: The currently open app is highlighted first when you open the task switcher
Jan 19 17:28:46 <Jaffa> Cool
Jan 19 17:29:14 <Jaffa> What I expected. Actually could've tested since I'm on my tablet now
Jan 19 17:29:19 <TrueJournals> I don't see the benefit of moving the icons around...
Jan 19 17:29:43 <opengeekv2> is to have the current app ever at the same place
Jan 19 17:29:56 <wazd> no, swaping is totally bad thing
Jan 19 17:29:59 <TrueJournals> opengeekv2: But what benefit results from that?
Jan 19 17:30:17 <wazd> You need to have all apps in the same place
Jan 19 17:30:25 <opengeekv2> dont have the current app menu inthe middle of the screen
Jan 19 17:30:29 <wazd> Not only opened
Jan 19 17:30:30 <TrueJournals> I don't see how that makes things easier.  I get used to where an app is when I have multiple open, I wouldn't want them switching around
Jan 19 17:30:57 <Stskeeps> ok, does anyone have a list of deprecated widgets in Maemo 5?
Jan 19 17:31:21 <opengeekv2> ok you are in tru when you say taht switching is problematic
Jan 19 17:31:40 <andre__> Stskeeps, i don't think that list is available yet
Jan 19 17:31:46 <Stskeeps> k
Jan 19 17:32:16 * Stskeeps is setting up python bindings so
Jan 19 17:32:38 <opengeekv2> but i think that the change of place of the current app menu ti the middle is not a good thing
Jan 19 17:32:59 <opengeekv2> i dont see the utility of having it there
Jan 19 17:33:06 <Stskeeps> wazd: tiny problem with middle app menu
Jan 19 17:33:15 <Stskeeps> wazd: what about the multi level menus?
Jan 19 17:33:18 <Stskeeps> like, menu inside menu
Jan 19 17:33:38 <wazd> Current app menu is already in the middle. I've just made it narrow
Jan 19 17:34:08 <opengeekv2> ok i had an idea to solve the porblem
Jan 19 17:34:09 <wazd> Stskeeps: and what's the problem?
Jan 19 17:34:19 <Stskeeps> wazd: try to think of how the menu unfolds
Jan 19 17:34:55 <opengeekv2> what if when you tap the menu app it apears like a traditional menubar on desktop
Jan 19 17:34:57 <Stskeeps> (look at how menu unfolds into multiple level, like a staircase, or a flying spaghetti monster, just only to the right)
Jan 19 17:35:00 <opengeekv2> vertical
Jan 19 17:35:00 <Stskeeps> :P
Jan 19 17:35:06 <opengeekv2> hortizontal
Jan 19 17:35:10 <wazd> Stskeeps: same way as it unfolds now
Jan 19 17:36:03 <Jaffa> wazd: I think the concern is that the left border of tyhe menu will open further to the right.
Jan 19 17:36:18 <wazd> opengeekv2: first of all, what problem you're trying to solve?
Jan 19 17:36:40 <opengeekv2> the menu app shadowing the body of the app
Jan 19 17:37:29 <opengeekv2> maybe is usless to see the body but covering it a lot is antiestethic
Jan 19 17:38:34 <wazd> opengeekv2: iphone menu covers 100% of app's body for example. Don't see anyting antiesthetic here
Jan 19 17:39:20 <wazd> More than that, maybe we can do app menu something like in canola2
Jan 19 17:39:30 <TrueJournals> I assume we're refering to http://tabletui.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/mer3.jpg?w=800&h=480 ...?
Jan 19 17:39:42 <wazd> To make it fingerfriendly at last
Jan 19 17:39:59 <opengeekv2> the app menu i refer to the menu that has actions like File, Edit, View...
Jan 19 17:40:28 <TrueJournals> opengeekv2: But you're referring to where it is placed in that mockup?
Jan 19 17:40:33 <wazd> opengeekv2: me 2)
Jan 19 17:41:01 <opengeekv2> yes
Jan 19 17:41:22 <TrueJournals> What about just making the right side of the menu align with the right side of that icon when it opens?
Jan 19 17:43:58 <opengeekv2> i've drawn something with pen i i've taken a pictuer i sent it right now
Jan 19 17:45:50 <zenvoid> hmmm... it seems that you are having a lot fun with the placement of things in the desktop ;-)
Jan 19 17:47:35 <opengeekv2> yess XD
Jan 19 17:47:59 <opengeekv2> but i cant pas the photos via bluetotth i go to find the usb
Jan 19 17:49:01 <Stskeeps> zenvoid: getting bloody close to having python-osso and hildon now too :P pygtk got working earlier
Jan 19 17:49:54 <zenvoid> Stskeeps: nice! I'm trying the virtualbox image right now
Jan 19 17:50:24 <Stskeeps> hehe, hope you got the whole :P bloody big thing
Jan 19 17:50:50 <zenvoid> btw, the upstart included in 0.6 is from jaunty of sdk5 beta ?
Jan 19 17:51:02 <zenvoid> s/of/or/
Jan 19 17:51:04 <opengeekv2> ican take the picture
Jan 19 17:51:10 <opengeekv2> cant
Jan 19 17:51:14 <Stskeeps> zenvoid: there's no upstart in fremantle sdk, sadly
Jan 19 17:51:14 <opengeekv2> sorry
Jan 19 17:51:57 <zenvoid> Stskeeps: oops, i think I've read somewhere that they were switching to upstart (?)
Jan 19 17:52:07 <Stskeeps> zenvoid: yeah, they are, but not in pre-alpha sdk
Jan 19 17:52:07 <GeneralAntilles> They are
Jan 19 17:52:16 <zenvoid> ah, ok
Jan 19 17:52:31 <Stskeeps> we use ubuntus atm :P
Jan 19 17:52:57 <opengeekv2> wazd in fact the onli think that dont like to me is have the menu with File, Edit ...etc shadowing the body of the app
Jan 19 17:53:20 <opengeekv2> if the button is in the middle or is right or is left is not a poorblem for me
Jan 19 17:54:21 <Stskeeps> zenvoid: http://trac.tspre.org/meiz/screenshots/pygtk.png :)
Jan 19 17:56:00 * zenvoid realy wants to start creating lots of things for Mer ;-)
Jan 19 17:56:10 <Stskeeps> hehe
Jan 19 17:56:15 <Stskeeps> plenty of opportunity :>
Jan 19 17:56:27 <Jaffa> opengeekv2: I think changing that in mer is a step too far from maemo, and from the potential-futurre-UIs shown at the summit, it's going to get "worse"
Jan 19 17:56:39 <Stskeeps> true
Jan 19 17:56:43 <Stskeeps> i never saw those mockups
Jan 19 17:57:45 <Jaffa> Imagine the app start or task nav menus (finger friendly, grey b/g) in a grid for the app's menu
Jan 19 17:58:02 <Stskeeps> kinda like wazd's mockup earlier
Jan 19 17:58:07 <opengeekv2> yes couse me and gimp are not too friends
Jan 19 17:58:15 <Stskeeps> opengeekv2: it's worse under paint :>
Jan 19 17:58:36 <zenvoid> I have a problem with imager, I'll look at it later since I need to go now
Jan 19 17:58:51 <Stskeeps> have fun
Jan 19 17:58:52 <johnx> Jaffa, and that's for the menu to launch applications or the menu to pick "save, copy, paste"?
Jan 19 17:59:25 <opengeekv2> the menu for file edit view...
Jan 19 17:59:58 <johnx> opengeekv2, I understand what you're talking about. I wanted to make sure Jaffa was talking about the same thing
Jan 19 18:00:09 <opengeekv2> OH OK SORRY
Jan 19 18:00:13 <johnx> :)
Jan 19 18:00:18 <Jaffa> johnx: correct
Jan 19 18:00:24 <johnx> wow
Jan 19 18:00:51 <Jaffa> I suppose accurate possessive punctuation can be confusing on IRC where people may have ESL
Jan 19 18:01:19 <Stskeeps> ESL?
Jan 19 18:01:24 <Stskeeps> ah
Jan 19 18:01:30 <opengeekv2> stksteps+1
Jan 19 18:01:35 <Jaffa> English as a Second Language
Jan 19 18:01:37 <johnx> Stskeeps, english (as a) second language :)
Jan 19 18:01:44 <opengeekv2> ok
Jan 19 18:02:16 * Jaffa goes TLAtastic
Jan 19 18:02:24 <johnx> I wonder how much more work that will be for people porting apps...
Jan 19 18:02:35 <Stskeeps> johnx: i found an elegant solution to the python problem btw
Jan 19 18:02:46 <johnx> really?
Jan 19 18:03:13 <Stskeeps> johnx: remove the bloody python-2.5-gtk (>= something) thing from the hildon/osso packages
Jan 19 18:03:18 <opengeekv2> ok i deffinetely thinkl that i would hjae to start to be friend with GIMP
Jan 19 18:03:21 <Stskeeps> and just have python-2.5-gtk2
Jan 19 18:03:37 <Stskeeps> johnx: again, Provides doesn't provide versions
Jan 19 18:03:50 <LinuxHack3r> sisto: Waiting Waiting Waiting.
Jan 19 18:03:59 <opengeekv2> maybe wazd and I will undesrtend one to each other XD
Jan 19 18:04:25 <johnx> Stskeeps, I agree. hacking source packages seems like the most reasonable way
Jan 19 18:04:44 <Stskeeps> johnx: because the first python package i saw doesn't have the >= thing
Jan 19 18:04:49 <wazd> If someone  will give me at least 1 rational explanation bout what's bad with cenrered app menu button - then i'll move it
Jan 19 18:04:58 * lcuk climbs up to the high platform, leaps does a triple somersault with half twist before landing deftly in a cup of water
Jan 19 18:05:15 * lcuk loses his balance when putting his shoes back on
Jan 19 18:05:24 <lcuk> it looks daft
Jan 19 18:05:55 <lcuk> out of place and does not deserve to be centrepiece
Jan 19 18:06:00 <lcuk> if anything it should be the mer menu
Jan 19 18:06:05 <lcuk> but even that wouldnt look right
Jan 19 18:06:14 <Stskeeps> http://trac.tspre.org:8000/python-osso_jaunty-armel-1232387331.log
Jan 19 18:06:16 <Stskeeps> huh? :P
Jan 19 18:06:19 <lcuk> SPACE is the thing that menu lacks
Jan 19 18:06:38 <johnx> *cough* just to put this out there: ideally order of things in that top panel will be something that could be configured at a layout level
Jan 19 18:07:27 <johnx> Stskeeps, dying disk?
Jan 19 18:07:29 <opengeekv2> hey i've said that is no problem id the button is in the middle
Jan 19 18:07:33 <Stskeeps> johnx: doubtful
Jan 19 18:07:42 <wazd> Mer menu should be in the corner for easiest possible click on it
Jan 19 18:07:45 <Stskeeps> johnx: and that would throw me into a huge panic
Jan 19 18:08:18 <lcuk> if that menu was dynamic and had some of the app title in it i wouldnt object so much
Jan 19 18:08:26 <opengeekv2> fut we have to find a way to no cover (a huge surface) of rhe body of the app
Jan 19 18:08:45 <Jaffa> johnx: apparently this new menu is got "for free", and they've finally realised that making the widgets used finger friendly rather than introducing new widgets is the right approach (in some cases, not all)
Jan 19 18:08:52 <lcuk> apps have coped perfectly well for years and years with less space than now
Jan 19 18:08:52 <wazd> Forget about title at last)
Jan 19 18:09:19 <slonopotamus> hmm
Jan 19 18:09:19 <slonopotamus> about useless optimizations
Jan 19 18:09:19 <slonopotamus> my python is twice faster than maemo
Jan 19 18:09:28 <Stskeeps> hehe
Jan 19 18:09:33 <opengeekv2> great
Jan 19 18:09:43 <johnx> Jaffa, yeah, we're seeing some of the effects of that. I just hope they make the right trade-off
Jan 19 18:10:23 <Jaffa> johnx: indeed
Jan 19 18:10:26 <opengeekv2> and hwat about
Jan 19 18:10:34 * lcuk would like dynamically resizing elements, a person with only a few running apps and clock widgets (forget the name) should have plenty of space for a title + menu
Jan 19 18:10:41 * Guest90884 [W2I=000:u:0:000:]
Jan 19 18:10:54 <lcuk> those with more should still see more *at the expense of the titlebar*
Jan 19 18:10:57 <wazd> Lcuk: app title is totally useless. There's nothing it can work for in that place. Totally noting
Jan 19 18:11:35 <lcuk> i have very few things running, i will have a big gap - why cant i have a title until i run more things?
Jan 19 18:11:38 <opengeekv2> |mer|app list|menu button|notification area|minimize|close
Jan 19 18:11:43 <lcuk> its simple logic - the space will exist
Jan 19 18:12:08 <johnx> lcuk, maybe we could make you a statusbar applet that shows the title of the currently focused app :)
Jan 19 18:12:16 <Khertan_n810> huhu
Jan 19 18:12:19 <lcuk> theres one there already
Jan 19 18:12:23 <Khertan_n810> hello again
Jan 19 18:12:25 <lcuk> it has a menu icon and everything
Jan 19 18:12:32 <wazd> You will still have a title like «Web - Nokia Sta...»
Jan 19 18:12:48 <Khertan_n810> remove the title
Jan 19 18:12:48 <wazd> Does it make sense for you?
Jan 19 18:13:00 <LinuxHack3r> Hello everyone!
Jan 19 18:13:03 <lcuk> wazd, at first i will have 1 applet and no apps
Jan 19 18:13:06 <johnx> hi LinuxHack3r
Jan 19 18:13:08 <lcuk> it will show much more clearly
Jan 19 18:13:16 <lcuk> when i fill it up with running apps it will go shorter
Jan 19 18:13:18 <LinuxHack3r> johnx: ! It works! Thanks.
Jan 19 18:13:20 <lcuk> just like it does everywhere
Jan 19 18:13:24 <opengeekv2> hey wazd i would tray to mike a mockup and i will show you
Jan 19 18:13:26 <johnx> LinuxHack3r, ah good!
Jan 19 18:13:28 <opengeekv2> ok?
Jan 19 18:13:30 <wazd> Then you will see «home»
Jan 19 18:13:51 <lcuk> at extreme end all i will see if the menu icon - which is exactly how you have it now
Jan 19 18:14:02 <wazd> opengeekv2: sure
Jan 19 18:14:30 <wazd> And what about not extreme ends?
Jan 19 18:14:57 <wazd> You have 3 apps and 6 applets for example
Jan 19 18:14:57 <lcuk> right now on my tablet, i have 4 icons: bluetooth+backlight+wifi+battery even accounting for 10 more things i can still see my app title
Jan 19 18:15:07 <wazd> Stqndard situation
Jan 19 18:15:32 <lcuk> i *agree* the title isnt so important when theres lots of icons
Jan 19 18:15:41 <lcuk> but theres no point in removing it totally
Jan 19 18:15:47 <wazd> Without apps you will see «home»
Jan 19 18:16:02 <lcuk> yes, and its really easy to click on the menu cos its big and long
Jan 19 18:16:08 <lcuk> and i know what im doing
Jan 19 18:16:26 <wazd> With one app you'll see it's name. But why do you need the name of one opened app
Jan 19 18:16:56 <johnx> the biggest deciding factors here are probably going to involve technical feasibility given what we can do with the panel and staying compatible with apps written for Fremantle
Jan 19 18:16:58 <wazd> Current menu is long enough to click it with toe
Jan 19 18:17:02 <lcuk> because its part of the theme
Jan 19 18:18:21 <wazd> Lcuk: you'll have to change current themes anyway since titlebar isn't resizable there
Jan 19 18:21:07 <wazd> I'd prefer ordered free space than trying to fill it at all costs
Jan 19 18:21:33 <lcuk> wazd, konttoris theme designer needs updating :)
Jan 19 18:21:49 <wazd> If i'll have free space in tasks zone I'll see that none of apps are running
Jan 19 18:22:07 <Stskeeps> lcuk: actually it's just a layout :P
Jan 19 18:22:17 <lcuk> heh good
Jan 19 18:22:22 <johnx> Stskeeps, it still needs updating :)
Jan 19 18:22:27 <Stskeeps> yeah
Jan 19 18:22:40 <johnx> since we need different sized pngs
Jan 19 18:22:41 <Stskeeps> johnx: theme maker is bascally hildon-theme-layout-4 written in java code
Jan 19 18:22:47 <Stskeeps> + slicer
Jan 19 18:23:02 <Stskeeps> qwerty12: have you ever seen anything like this? http://trac.tspre.org:8000/python-osso_jaunty-armel-1232387331.log
Jan 19 18:23:11 <Stskeeps> qwerty12: i'm absolutely baffled - the code is there
Jan 19 18:23:22 <lcuk> wazd, chopping window titles out (which are a part of window managers all over the world) just to force useless space on a constrained touch device is folly at best
Jan 19 18:23:28 <Stskeeps> and the gcc too obviously
Jan 19 18:23:30 <johnx> Stskeeps, ah, I also considered the template part of 'theme maker'
Jan 19 18:23:57 <johnx> lcuk, unless things changed section sizes can't be resized while hildon-desktop is running
Jan 19 18:24:16 <qwerty12> Stskeeps, I can't figure it out. A scratchbox oddity :(
Jan 19 18:24:17 * lcuk raises eyebrows?
Jan 19 18:24:18 <lcuk> really
Jan 19 18:24:31 <Stskeeps> qwerty12: the debhelper stuff or the osso thing? :P
Jan 19 18:24:35 <wazd> Titles are part of -desktop- filemangers
Jan 19 18:24:36 <johnx> lcuk, yes, read ~/.osso/hildon-desktop/desktop.conf
Jan 19 18:24:40 <qwerty12> Stskeeps, the osso thing
Jan 19 18:24:45 <Stskeeps> k
Jan 19 18:24:58 <johnx> wazd, unless things change it should be easy to make a user-modifiable layout, given that the pngs going into the theme can be tiled or scaled
Jan 19 18:25:01 <lcuk> wazd, thats odd all my older lower resolution pdas had titlebars as well
Jan 19 18:25:12 <lardman> morning chaps
Jan 19 18:25:15 <qwerty12> Stskeeps, I've finished with my osso-xterm hackzoring for the day so may as well take a look at osso.
Jan 19 18:25:15 <wazd> Winmo doesn't have title menu, iphone doesn't have title menu
Jan 19 18:25:18 <qwerty12> evening lardman
Jan 19 18:25:23 <lardman> qwerty12: ;)
Jan 19 18:25:44 <Stskeeps> qwerty12: do you ever do homework, btw? :P
Jan 19 18:26:01 <wazd> Lcuk: they have less accessible UI's aswell
Jan 19 18:26:09 <qwerty12> Stskeeps, at bad times...
Jan 19 18:26:12 <lcuk> http://www.kottke.org/plus/misc/images/itrail-graphs.jpg
Jan 19 18:26:13 <Stskeeps> hehe
Jan 19 18:26:18 <lcuk> iphone apps from page 1 of google
Jan 19 18:26:25 <lcuk> those look like big fuck off titlebars to me
Jan 19 18:27:22 <wazd> Lcuk: I mean functional title, like palm's for example
Jan 19 18:27:30 <lcuk> ?
Jan 19 18:27:53 <wazd> When you click on title - something triggers
Jan 19 18:28:12 <Khertan_n810> what is the method to set the focus of a widget in gtk ?
Jan 19 18:28:31 <wazd> Btw, to add quickswitcher to winmo, all apps remove title
Jan 19 18:29:15 <wazd> And I totally don't see any fricking sense in that fricking title)
Jan 19 18:29:26 <lcuk> nor do i when the space is required
Jan 19 18:29:27 <wazd> Absolutely. No. Sense.
Jan 19 18:29:36 <lcuk> but if its free whats the big deal?
Jan 19 18:29:41 <wazd> And when it's not?
Jan 19 18:29:41 <Stskeeps> wazd: it's usually clear what app you are in :)
Jan 19 18:29:47 <Khertan_n810> as we have task list with hilighted task ... we don t need title ... just a menu icon
Jan 19 18:29:51 <lopz> hola
Jan 19 18:30:15 <Jake42-2> ccooke? r u here man?
Jan 19 18:30:17 <lcuk> wazd, i already said - no qualms, just like everything else when space is constrained reduce the space to the title accordingly
Jan 19 18:30:40 <johnx> strangely it looks very likely that it will be easy to do either layout or very difficult to do both layouts, all depending on software nokia hasn't released yet :)
Jan 19 18:30:48 <lcuk> lol
Jan 19 18:30:56 <wazd> stskeeps: i dont thinthat there are people like «oh, what application is that?!» ))
Jan 19 18:31:12 <Stskeeps> wazd: i get confused between if i'm in Mer and if i'm in Maemo, once in a while.
Jan 19 18:31:23 <lcuk> wazd, remove the titlebars from your theme now
Jan 19 18:31:34 <lcuk> its feasible to simply not specifiy a font i gather?>
Jan 19 18:31:36 <johnx> which is why we use titlebars in mer set to "home_ap_home_view" :D
Jan 19 18:32:35 <lcuk> thats just not gone through l10n
Jan 19 18:33:45 <wazd> Again, i'd prefer free space than to use all space with crap
Jan 19 18:34:18 <wazd> Let's show random symbols, when we're on homescreen
Jan 19 18:34:37 <johnx> we're close to that right now in mer :)
Jan 19 18:34:41 <johnx> so a step in the right direction
Jan 19 18:34:42 <wazd> Home is short word, so much free space on the right
Jan 19 18:35:13 * lardman can't believe how thirsty talking all day can make you
Jan 19 18:35:23 <Jake42-2> does anyone how may I uninstall apache from maemo?
Jan 19 18:35:29 <wazd> And let's cover all unused applet slots with smileys
Jan 19 18:35:32 <Stskeeps> lardman: what'd you present/lecture?
Jan 19 18:35:50 <lardman> yeah, all day course, running all week
Jan 19 18:39:18 <lardman> GeneralAntilles: ping
Jan 19 18:39:31 <lcuk> lardman, are you allowed to drink tonight then
Jan 19 18:39:40 <lardman> lcuk: allowed :)
Jan 19 18:39:48 <lcuk> heh,
Jan 19 18:40:43 <GeneralAntilles> lardman, pong?
Jan 19 18:41:03 <lardman> GeneralAntilles: was just going to +1 your post re getting on before end of month
Jan 19 18:41:30 <lardman> am trawling through today's emails
Jan 19 18:42:51 <qwerty12> Stskeeps, odd. running the gcc command manually works fine.
Jan 19 18:43:03 <Stskeeps> qwerty12: yes, i was astonished too
Jan 19 18:44:51 <lardman> hmm, /me wonders what the justification for dropping samba is
Jan 19 18:45:00 <Stskeeps> lardman: probably noone internally to maintain it
Jan 19 18:45:07 <Stskeeps> or that most people doesn't realize it's there
Jan 19 18:45:24 <Stskeeps> it wasn't before trawling the code that i realized it was there
Jan 19 18:45:32 <lardman> yeah, well I only notice is sometimes, and can't get it to work at home, but if it would, it would be very useful
Jan 19 18:45:37 <lardman> s/is/it
Jan 19 18:45:41 <lardman> is the fm backend open?
Jan 19 18:45:47 <Stskeeps> think so
Jan 19 18:45:51 <Stskeeps> i had Samba in mer, so
Jan 19 18:45:56 <lardman> could the community support it as an add-on? That would work for me anyway
Jan 19 18:46:09 <Stskeeps> im not sure how much it is seperated
Jan 19 18:46:15 <lardman> though it's to do with dropping gnome-vfs isn't it iirc?
Jan 19 18:46:22 <qwerty12> Stskeeps, python interpreter is messing up imo. Run "python2.5 setup.py build" and "python setup.py build" and notice the difference.
Jan 19 18:46:38 <Stskeeps> qwerty12: one works and one doesn't?
Jan 19 18:46:42 <qwerty12> (neither is successful)
Jan 19 18:46:45 <Stskeeps> ah
Jan 19 18:46:48 <qwerty12> python setup fails on as
Jan 19 18:46:57 <qwerty12> "/scratchbox/compilers/arm-linux-cs2008q3-72-libtool2/bin/sbox-arm-none-linux-gnueabi-as: unrecognized option `-Qy'"
Jan 19 18:47:00 <Stskeeps> hmm
Jan 19 18:53:06 <GeneralAntilles> I community Samba support doesn't sound unreasonable to me.
Jan 19 18:53:17 <GeneralAntilles> I'm not sure why everybody is so hooked on having Nokia ship everything.
Jan 19 18:53:32 <GeneralAntilles> They're totally encumbered by corporate bullshit and everything they ship sucks anyway.
Jan 19 18:55:46 <RST38h> Moo all. What is Nokia supposed to ship this time?
Jan 19 18:55:55 <GeneralAntilles> Samba support
Jan 19 18:57:18 <RST38h> Isn't it perfectly doable by the third party though? =)
Jan 19 18:57:58 <johnx> well, it's already *done*
Jan 19 18:58:10 <johnx> just needs some cleanup and maintenance
Jan 19 18:58:48 <GeneralAntilles> RST38h, it is.
Jan 19 18:58:56 <GeneralAntilles> RST38h, which is exactly my point.
Jan 19 18:59:03 <RST38h> weird people.
Jan 19 18:59:20 <GeneralAntilles> People getting up in arms about Nokia not providing 1st-party support when 3rd-party support is feasible and likely to be of better quality than anything Nokia would ship.
Jan 19 18:59:56 * RST38h hates, Hates, HATES address bar search in FF3
Jan 19 19:00:06 <RST38h> what a crappy idea...
Jan 19 19:00:13 <ccooke> Jake42-2: Sorry, sent home from work. I'm back now, if you're still around
Jan 19 19:00:27 <johnx> RST38h, I love it
Jan 19 19:00:33 <johnx> best feature added to the whole browser
Jan 19 19:00:46 <ccooke> johnx: Have to agree, there.
Jan 19 19:01:03 <ccooke> I've used it far more than I expected
Jan 19 19:01:20 <GAN800> The awesome bar polarizes like no other
Jan 19 19:01:38 <GAN800> I don't use FF much, but I can't stand it.
Jan 19 19:01:38 <johnx> GAN800, that's because it's awesome at polarizing
Jan 19 19:01:50 <johnx> I'm still finding ways to pin down long lost pages with it by combination of URL and page title
Jan 19 19:02:07 <GAN800> I think it's one of those things you have to adapt your workflow to.
Jan 19 19:02:17 <johnx> GAN800, like a mac :)
Jan 19 19:02:22 <RST38h> johnx: it would be, if it did not hang up for seconds at a time
Jan 19 19:02:40 <GAN800> Which isn't an easy thing to do (like with me and Expose). Unfortunately it's hard to ignore.
Jan 19 19:02:42 <johnx> RST38h, huh?
Jan 19 19:02:43 <RST38h> So, it either has to work instantly or not search at all
Jan 19 19:03:06 <RST38h> johnx: Even after I applied all the optimizations mentioned on the Net, it is still very very slow (and unevenly so)
Jan 19 19:03:26 <johnx> is your machine starved for RAM really badly?
Jan 19 19:03:28 <GAN800> johnx, honestly, I've never known anything else, so. :p
Jan 19 19:03:33 <johnx> any add-ons that might be causing problems
Jan 19 19:03:57 <johnx> GAN800, aaaah. now I see. I switched from linux to mac for work...somewhat painful at first
Jan 19 19:04:45 <GeneralAntilles> I did that with Windows for school.
Jan 19 19:05:00 <GeneralAntilles> Most of the time I spent using Windows was spent muttering curses under my breath.
Jan 19 19:05:10 <lardman> I was thinking integration in filemanager I must add
Jan 19 19:05:11 <aquatix> :)
Jan 19 19:05:17 <GeneralAntilles> It was fun finding random Windows 95 dialogs in XP.
Jan 19 19:05:45 <aquatix> ghehe
Jan 19 19:06:25 <johnx> GeneralAntilles, do sysadmin/helpdesk/support for a living and you get good at adapting or you go crazy
Jan 19 19:06:57 <Stskeeps> johnx: the latter is what happened to you? ;)
Jan 19 19:07:05 <johnx> that'd be telling
Jan 19 19:07:11 <johnx> :)
Jan 19 19:07:17 <Jaffa> GeneralAntilles: as llong as things like File Manager will allow tier-1 integration of 3rd party protocols
Jan 19 19:07:37 * Jaffa might be snapping lardman
Jan 19 19:08:38 <lardman> snapping?
Jan 19 19:09:12 <Jaffa> As in the card game, "Snap!"
Jan 19 19:09:43 <GeneralAntilles> http://www.google.com/search?ie=utf8&oe=utf8&q=%22snap%21%22
Jan 19 19:09:44 <lardman> ah, I was thinking twigs
Jan 19 19:09:48 <GeneralAntilles> Google's not very helpful here.
Jan 19 19:11:02 <GeneralAntilles> Jaffa, of course, and based on what Quim said, it seemed like something they'd be willing to work on removing any possible blockers for.
Jan 19 19:11:14 <RST38h> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/01/19/cass_sunstein_animal_rights/
Jan 19 19:11:38 <RST38h> johnx: it has got a standard 1GB
Jan 19 19:11:38 <GeneralAntilles> johnx, I've done a bit of that. ;)
Jan 19 19:12:21 <johnx> RST38h, same here, backed by a 1.8GHz A64 that's going on 4 or 5 years (ie, not a recent one :) )
Jan 19 19:13:49 <RST38h> johnx: well, for some reason that damn search is really slugish over here. in fact, it has got problems on the machine at work as well
Jan 19 19:14:22 * RST38h wonders iff it is related to him accidentaly entering cyrillics into the address bar
Jan 19 19:15:34 <johnx> it usually gets me recent results quickly and takes longer for older ones
Jan 19 19:15:46 <johnx> which is fine, because the old bar seemed to drop old results entirely
Jan 19 19:16:06 * aquatix rather likes the Fx3 bar
Jan 19 19:16:25 <aquatix> it works snappy enough here, and has tuned itself to me
Jan 19 19:17:56 <RST38h> johnx: I do have months of history
Jan 19 19:18:21 <johnx> RST38h, i have years
Jan 19 19:18:35 * aquatix has it set to 999 days
Jan 19 19:18:52 <aquatix> i only have to type some keyword and it remembers for me
Jan 19 19:25:17 * Jaffa quite likes the FF3 bar too
Jan 19 19:26:57 <aquatix> it took a bit of getting-used to
Jan 19 19:27:06 <aquatix> but that was just 1 or 2 days
Jan 19 19:28:25 <GeneralAntilles> andre__, ha!
Jan 19 19:29:03 <GeneralAntilles> #4019 is relevant to me because I always spaz whenever I see a blocker filed in a new Extras product and think it's a Maemo bug that I need to RESOLVE. ;)
Jan 19 19:30:32 <GeneralAntilles> Who wants to start taking bets on when we'll get DSMA?
Jan 19 19:30:36 <GeneralAntilles> s/MA/ME/
Jan 19 19:30:38 <Stskeeps> DSME?
Jan 19 19:30:43 <GeneralAntilles> My bet is never.
Jan 19 19:30:56 <Stskeeps> we'll see :P
Jan 19 19:31:21 * aquatix googles `DSME'
Jan 19 19:31:38 * qwerty12_N800 agrees with the General
Jan 19 19:32:55 <Davide> hi
Jan 19 19:32:59 <Davide> is anyone here?
Jan 19 19:33:32 * aquatix hides
Jan 19 19:33:46 <Davide> heh
Jan 19 19:33:59 <Davide> I have questions lol
Jan 19 19:34:13 <Davide> hey is this the only maemo irc community?
Jan 19 19:34:18 <andre__> don't ask to ask. just ask.
Jan 19 19:34:19 <aquatix> yep
Jan 19 19:34:33 <aquatix> and what andre__ says :)
Jan 19 19:34:35 <Jaffa> GeneralAntilles: Given it was "so very close" at the summit, I bet we'll get it when a Maemo device is as successful as the iPhone, or the Pandora becomes mass-market.
Jan 19 19:34:53 <andre__> GeneralAntilles, but 4019 is not about buglist.cgi, so i guess it will not fix your issue ;-)
Jan 19 19:35:20 <Davide> well I'm wondering if anyone knows anything about installing Xmame or gngeo on Diablo
Jan 19 19:35:21 <GeneralAntilles> andre__, yeah, I know.
Jan 19 19:35:29 <Davide> there doesnt seem to be much on the forums
Jan 19 19:35:53 <Davide> I keep getting an "incompatible Application package" error
Jan 19 19:35:57 <andre__> GeneralAntilles, it's more about managers afraid that reporters can't read :-P
Jan 19 19:36:22 <GeneralAntilles> andre__, I say screw 'em. :P
Jan 19 19:36:34 <GeneralAntilles> If they want to start triaging their own goddamn bugs, then they get a say. ;)
Jan 19 19:37:32 <Davide> or anyone that could point me in the right direction
Jan 19 19:37:56 <Jaffa> Davide: That sounds like the packager has cocked up, and you might need to install it manually using dpkg in X Terminal. Or moan at the packager to put his packages in the 'user/' section, if they're supposed to be installed by end-users.
Jan 19 19:38:17 <Davide> how would I go about doing it on X Terminal?
Jan 19 19:38:34 <Jaffa> Davide: sudo gainroot, dpkg -i xmame....deb
Jan 19 19:39:17 <Davide> thanks Jaffa so exactly what I would type after gaining root?  dpkg -i xmame
Jan 19 19:39:24 <Davide> and thats it?
Jan 19 19:40:34 <GeneralAntilles> http://wiki.maemo.org/Installing_applications#dpkg
Jan 19 19:41:06 <Davide> thank you and I apologize for the NOOB questions, I'm not well versed in unix/linux
Jan 19 19:43:14 <johnx> alright, headed to bed. 'night all
Jan 19 19:43:26 <b-man> g'night
Jan 19 19:45:46 <aquatix> johnx: nn
Jan 19 19:46:08 <aquatix> Davide: you have to learn it some way :)
Jan 19 19:46:14 <Davide> ok so with apt-get install gngeo  I get:  Package gngeo is not available, but is referred to by another package
Jan 19 19:46:36 <Davide> I have the xgngeo already installed but it lacks the executable it seems like
Jan 19 19:46:49 <Davide> and I read that I have to install the gngeo exec first so that xgngeo can find it
Jan 19 19:47:12 <Davide> xmame it does not find at all
Jan 19 19:47:21 <Davide> probably because I dont have the right repository I assume?
Jan 19 19:48:31 <aquatix> maybe the package is called slightly differently
Jan 19 19:48:58 <Davide> hmm can I do a search somehow? for part of the string?
Jan 19 19:49:12 <aquatix> apt-cache search gngeo
Jan 19 19:49:34 <Davide> it just returns xgngeo
Jan 19 19:49:42 <Davide> which is the frontend
Jan 19 19:49:56 <aquatix> and if you install that?
Jan 19 19:50:01 <Davide> and for mame it find nothing
Jan 19 19:50:04 <Davide> its already installed
Jan 19 19:50:07 <Davide> the xgngeo
Jan 19 19:50:09 <aquatix> oh
Jan 19 19:50:18 <aquatix> hm
Jan 19 19:51:54 * lcuk *insert silly returning action here*
Jan 19 19:53:06 <zenvoid> sudo sh imager targets/mer-n800-fs-only /home/rgs/mer-n800 ==> E: Couldn't find these debs: apt apt-utils bash [...]
Jan 19 19:53:06 <Jake42-2> how may I update maemo repo?
Jan 19 19:53:26 <Stskeeps> zenvoid: hmm
Jan 19 19:53:37 <zenvoid> x86 works
Jan 19 19:53:40 <Stskeeps> zenvoid: is this done in a qemu or where?
Jan 19 19:54:06 <Stskeeps> if you're doing it on x86, that's not the way :)
Jan 19 19:54:15 <zenvoid> oops
Jan 19 19:54:45 <Stskeeps> it works natively, that is, on an armel, or a special set up qemu armel :P
Jan 19 19:55:04 <Davide> so the incompatible application error message usually means it is not finding the file at all?
Jan 19 19:55:09 <Stskeeps> you're better off grabbing the tar.gz for n800, the process takes ages on tablet
Jan 19 19:55:41 <b-man> (3-5 hours) ;)
Jan 19 19:55:48 <zenvoid> Stskeeps: ok, I'lll read imager sources :-) just curios about how everything is made
Jan 19 19:55:57 <Stskeeps> zenvoid: hehe, yeah, that's also a way :)
Jan 19 19:56:10 <Stskeeps> it's mostly magic debootstrap tricks
Jan 19 19:57:11 <Jaffa> Davide: do you have a .deb file you are trying to install through the Application Manager?
Jan 19 19:57:28 <b-man> Stskeeps: i see you've established a #mer channel
Jan 19 19:58:02 <Stskeeps> b-man: yeah, the intention is to stay in here though, as we're closely connected with the maemo community
Jan 19 19:58:10 <Davide> no I guess I don't have the file at all
Jan 19 19:58:16 <Davide> I'm looking for the file
Jan 19 19:58:19 <zenvoid> even the first bootstrat stage is done under armel?
Jan 19 19:58:25 <Stskeeps> zenvoid: yeah
Jan 19 19:58:27 <Davide> anytime I hit the link from maemo.org for example
Jan 19 19:58:27 <Stskeeps> on a qemu
Jan 19 19:58:30 <zenvoid> ok
Jan 19 19:58:33 <Davide> it tells me the error
Jan 19 19:58:33 <Stskeeps> GeneralAntilles: pfft. ;P
Jan 19 19:58:39 <GeneralAntilles> :P
Jan 19 19:58:40 <Davide> incompatible application package
Jan 19 19:58:48 <lcuk> omg! i think we were just attacked by anonymous /b/tards :P
Jan 19 20:01:37 <Stskeeps> i wonder if it's michael jackson living next door since there's a kid screaming loudly quite a lot
Jan 19 20:01:40 <Stskeeps> *sigh* :P
Jan 19 20:02:06 * qwerty12_N800 passes Stskeeps a BB gun
Jan 19 20:02:15 <GeneralAntilles> Need to blast the speed metal.
Jan 19 20:03:18 <Vulcanis> thats what she said
Jan 19 20:03:19 <Vulcanis> wait, what?
Jan 19 20:03:42 <zenvoid> Stskeeps: ohhh, my bad habit to always try to build everything from scratch... I'll try to live with precompiled images for now, really
Jan 19 20:05:05 <lcuk> zenvoid, :) an honourable habit to have, i gave up when i couldnt find enough planks of wood to make my bed
Jan 19 20:05:38 <Stskeeps> zenvoid: hehe, we started out without images at first too
Jan 19 20:05:59 <Stskeeps> it is just much more productive to have a tar.gz laying about as a snapshot you can revert to anytime though
Jan 19 20:06:10 <Stskeeps> since it takes ~10 mins to unpack the image
Jan 19 20:08:00 <Stskeeps> zenvoid: but on the other hand that it's possible to change some scripts and have your own custom OS image, is a good thing :)
Jan 19 20:09:24 <zenvoid> uh? are those dbus errors in the x86 chroot normal?
Jan 19 20:09:42 <Stskeeps> ah, yes, the dbus errors
Jan 19 20:09:46 <zenvoid> oops, Segmentation fault... I'll start again
Jan 19 20:09:50 <Stskeeps> i thought johnx talked about some chroot problems
Jan 19 20:09:51 <zenvoid> from scrach ;-)
Jan 19 20:10:15 <Stskeeps> there is a strange strange bug exhibiting when running start-hildon from chroot :)
Jan 19 20:10:45 <zenvoid> ok... reverting to the virtualbox image, then
Jan 19 20:10:53 <Stskeeps> yeah, that one definately works
Jan 19 20:10:59 <Stskeeps> i mostly compile in chroot
Jan 19 20:11:55 <zenvoid> and virtualbox is also a good idea for debugging startup
Jan 19 20:12:03 <Stskeeps> Jaffa: i don't think it was a 64-bit problem you saw btw
Jan 19 20:13:03 <Stskeeps> zenvoid: yeah, it works similar to how it does on tablet, besides the lack of splash screen and rescue menu ;)
Jan 19 20:14:34 <zenvoid> Stskeeps: how can I force a screen resolution of 800x480?
Jan 19 20:14:46 <Stskeeps> zenvoid: xrandr maybe
Jan 19 20:15:00 <Stskeeps> not sure if 800x480 is possible on the X driver it uses
Jan 19 20:15:16 <Stskeeps> (i made a generic image that is sure to work most places, so :P)
Jan 19 20:16:34 <zenvoid> oh, nice theme ;-)
Jan 19 20:16:38 <Stskeeps> hehe :)
Jan 19 20:17:01 <zenvoid> hmm... there are gliches, probably because of the resolution???
Jan 19 20:17:38 <Stskeeps> possibly, what kind of glitches?
Jan 19 20:18:23 <Stskeeps> zenvoid: http://trac.tspre.org/meiz/screenshots/Screenshot-2.png , on tablet
Jan 19 20:18:39 <Davide> well no success
Jan 19 20:18:41 <Davide> :(
Jan 19 20:18:53 <RST38h> All right, MasterGear with the new wazd's icon is not in the Extras
Jan 19 20:18:55 <zenvoid> Stskeeps: on tablet seems OK
Jan 19 20:22:24 * Stskeeps tries to reawaken the qemu builder
Jan 19 20:22:46 <Davide> do any of you play games on the tablet?
Jan 19 20:22:48 <Davide> what do you use?
Jan 19 20:22:55 <Stskeeps> some things will have to be built in qemu sadly, cos SDK is bloody weird atm
Jan 19 20:24:32 <Stskeeps> zenvoid: funny bugs like http://trac.tspre.org:8000/vte=1:0.17.4-0ubuntu1mer2_jaunty-armel-1232381310.log and http://trac.tspre.org:8000/python-osso_jaunty-armel-1232387331.log at the moment :)
Jan 19 20:24:36 <Stskeeps> (look in bottom of both9
Jan 19 20:25:54 <RST38h> Is maemo.org sluggish tonight?
Jan 19 20:25:58 <RST38h> can't update a page
Jan 19 20:26:40 <pupnik> atari jaguar emulator on pandora: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pe_R787gREc
Jan 19 20:26:40 <Davide> its always sluggish for me
Jan 19 20:27:02 <Davide> pupnik did you ever try getting mame to work?
Jan 19 20:27:06 <ctooley> morning all
Jan 19 20:27:14 <Stskeeps> morning
Jan 19 20:27:19 <Davide> hello
Jan 19 20:27:36 <inz> Stskeeps, it would seem like ncurses is missing dh_makeshlibs
Jan 19 20:27:51 <ctooley> I've gotten QuickSynergy set up.  I'm wondering if there's a way to get the pointer to show up without having to come up with some polling hack.
Jan 19 20:28:09 <pupnik> mame worked ok on 770, Davide
Jan 19 20:28:25 <Stskeeps> inz: worst part is it works on x86 for instance
Jan 19 20:28:27 <RST38h> pupnik: Bring Mame back to 8x0 =)
Jan 19 20:28:44 <inz> Stskeeps, interesting =)
Jan 19 20:28:51 <ctooley> I'm running 5.2008.43-7 on an N800
Jan 19 20:29:20 <Stskeeps> inz: we're basically trying to bring up-to-date vte + MAEMO_CHANGES + osso-xterm to Mer, so :P
Jan 19 20:29:22 <qwerty12_N800> ctooley, edit /home/user/.icons/default/index.theme and comment Inherits &  reboot.
Jan 19 20:29:32 <qwerty12_N800> *edit as  root
Jan 19 20:31:27 <ctooley> gotta install rootsh
Jan 19 20:32:54 <Davide> so it no longer works? mame or gngeo?
Jan 19 20:33:09 <pupnik> "If automobiles had followed the same development cycle as the computer, a Rolls-Royce would today cost $100, get a million miles per gallon, and explode once a year, killing everyone inside."
Jan 19 20:33:16 <ctooley> going to www.maemo.org from my N800 gives a webbrowser NFS error.
Jan 19 20:33:20 <inz> Stskeeps, you have new enogugh gtk in mer?
Jan 19 20:33:29 <ctooley> err NFS error in the browser
Jan 19 20:33:34 <Stskeeps> inz: yup, 2.12
Jan 19 20:33:43 <Stskeeps> same as in fremantle
Jan 19 20:33:55 <Davide> Man I just wanted to play some cool old school games
Jan 19 20:33:56 <Davide> :(
Jan 19 20:34:01 <Davide> on my gngeo
Jan 19 20:34:05 <Davide> ^^
Jan 19 20:35:21 <inz> Stskeeps, anyway, from the log it would seem that shlibs file for ncurses is missing for some reason
Jan 19 20:35:32 <inz> Stskeeps, why it only affects arm, no idea
Jan 19 20:35:42 <Stskeeps> probably because it's scratchbox or something :P
Jan 19 20:37:33 <GeneralAntilles> Davide, well, there are lots of other higher-quality emulators available.
Jan 19 20:37:45 <GeneralAntilles> Easily installable right from the Application Manager.
Jan 19 20:38:09 <thopiekar> [The Mer platform is a Linux distribution for mobile devices based on the Maemo platform from Nokia.]
Jan 19 20:38:09 <thopiekar> Will Mer be a alternative OS for Maemo-Devices?
Jan 19 20:38:56 <Stskeeps> thopiekar: well, successor of maemo on 770, n8x0 maybe. :P
Jan 19 20:39:00 <Stskeeps> i dunno, it's all a matter of definitions.
Jan 19 20:39:00 <Stskeeps> :P
Jan 19 20:39:58 * thopiekar is now confused...
Jan 19 20:40:19 <GeneralAntilles> thopiekar, less an alternative OS than an alternative Maemo, methinks.
Jan 19 20:41:40 <Stskeeps> thopiekar: it's basically the Maemo Reconstructed idea coming into reality
Jan 19 20:42:00 <thopiekar> GeneralAntilles: couldn't it be the promised version of maemo without closedsource programs like map , etc?
Jan 19 20:42:14 <Stskeeps> thopiekar: yeah, except this isn't Nokia's doing
Jan 19 20:42:15 <RST38h> map isn't a requirement really
Jan 19 20:42:17 <GeneralAntilles> "promised"?
Jan 19 20:42:19 <thopiekar> Stskeeps: aaaah!
Jan 19 20:42:29 <Stskeeps> we are just users of their components, and proud tablet users
Jan 19 20:43:21 <wazd> Damn, I'm bored(
Jan 19 20:43:31 <Stskeeps> hehe
Jan 19 20:43:33 <Stskeeps> still no internet at home?
Jan 19 20:43:35 * b-man trys out gentoo from http://slonopotamus.org/gentoo-on-n8x0
Jan 19 20:43:36 <thopiekar> GeneralAntilles: I have read about that before that there will be a version like the todays OS2008 and a fully opensource one.. or not!?
Jan 19 20:43:41 <wazd> Maybe I'll go to sleep then(
Jan 19 20:44:05 <wazd> Stskeeps: yep(
Jan 19 20:44:10 <RST38h> wazd: I fixed the mg icon and uploade dmg to extras
Jan 19 20:44:21 <Stskeeps> thopiekar: community editions?
Jan 19 20:44:36 <lcuk> Stskeeps, in a way it is nokias doing and every other person who has helped build an amazingly versatile software stack that comprises linux :)
Jan 19 20:44:44 <Stskeeps> lcuk: yeah
Jan 19 20:44:46 <thopiekar> Stskeeps: yes!
Jan 19 20:44:58 <wazd> RST38h: oh, awesome!
Jan 19 20:45:32 <thopiekar> Isn't Mer going to be _the_ community edition?
Jan 19 20:45:33 <thopiekar> ^^
Jan 19 20:45:43 <lcuk> the amazing blend you are doing is shaping it in a sane manner and carefully selecting a path to create an easy to use sensible distribution :)
Jan 19 20:46:03 <Stskeeps> thopiekar: this is basically an alternate approach to things.. community editions would imply that we just take OS2008, remix it a bit and publish
Jan 19 20:46:05 <wazd> Btw, second thing  adore in E90 is  d-pad
Jan 19 20:46:19 <Stskeeps> thopiekar: which is not sustainable and hardly as fun as this
Jan 19 20:46:25 <wazd> It's ficking awesome
Jan 19 20:46:27 <RST38h> wazd: isn't it similar to the one in N810, just located in a better position?
Jan 19 20:46:43 <Stskeeps> thopiekar: Mer is a project by community people to take a different approach to the maemo platform
Jan 19 20:46:49 <wazd> RST38h: no, it's softer
Jan 19 20:47:04 <wazd> RST38h: more gamepad like
Jan 19 20:47:08 <Stskeeps> as to empower the community more and focus the work
Jan 19 20:47:17 <thopiekar> Stskeeps: aahh I see...
Jan 19 20:47:22 <thopiekar> stsk
Jan 19 20:47:36 <thopiekar> Stskeeps: thanks for the info ;)
Jan 19 20:47:40 <wazd> RST38h: superb touch response
Jan 19 20:47:54 <Stskeeps> thopiekar: http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_Reconstructed <- very old thoughts
Jan 19 20:48:05 * RST38h has got a stick in his phone
Jan 19 20:48:13 <RST38h> not bad either, but it has worn out somewhat
Jan 19 20:48:23 <zenvoid> Stskeeps: I'm looking at those bugs... sound familiar, I remember lots of issues with scratchbox paths
Jan 19 20:48:28 <wazd> RST38h: on n800/810 it's too "clicky"
Jan 19 20:48:51 <Stskeeps> zenvoid: for now to speed up the process, when a build fails in scratchbox, it will try it out on qemu (natively) and build it there
Jan 19 20:48:56 <Stskeeps> and mark the packages it had to do it wih
Jan 19 20:49:33 <wazd> RST38h: they really made e90 d-pad awesome cause it's main navigation controller :)
Jan 19 20:50:00 <lcuk> please don't laugh, i have a number of access databases and i cannot find a tool to convert to sqlite, anyone got anything lying around or a link?
Jan 19 20:50:18 <Stskeeps> wazd: design a tablet? :>
Jan 19 20:50:21 <Stskeeps> (if you're bored)
Jan 19 20:50:30 <aquatix> lcuk: there's an mdb thing for php?
Jan 19 20:50:44 <wazd> Stskeeps: sleep is better)
Jan 19 20:50:51 <lcuk> wouldnt know, i dont use php, but will look
Jan 19 20:50:55 <aquatix> http://menkou.homelinux.net/serendipity/index.php?/archives/21-Access-a-mdb-database-from-a-php-web-site.html
Jan 19 20:51:00 <Stskeeps> wazd: hehe :>
Jan 19 20:51:03 <lcuk> the problem with "access" as a keyword is its generic
Jan 19 20:51:14 <aquatix> lcuk: i had a user ask a similar question today
Jan 19 20:51:29 <aquatix> yeah, i figured you wanted an .mdb file reader
Jan 19 20:51:37 <RST38h> lcuk: export to csv, then read from csv
Jan 19 20:51:41 <wazd> the main e90 disadvantage is it's price)
Jan 19 20:51:44 <aquatix> that can be done with odbc and such
Jan 19 20:51:46 <lcuk> table definitions?
Jan 19 20:51:58 <RST38h> wazd: it is no longer that expensive compared to some newer phones
Jan 19 20:52:07 <RST38h> HTC will easily cost you more
Jan 19 20:52:28 <lcuk> aquatix, of course odbc! ill look for a driver forthwith
Jan 19 20:52:28 <aquatix> lcuk: you can ask through a query?
Jan 19 20:52:35 <aquatix> lcuk: see that same url
Jan 19 20:52:40 <wazd> RST38h: Well, you're probably right, but lack of touchscreen...
Jan 19 20:53:24 <RST38h> wazd: I don't really need it if I have the keyboard
Jan 19 20:53:43 <wazd> RST38h: haven't tested web-surfing with d-pad though
Jan 19 20:54:08 <RST38h> wazd: it is decent enough
Jan 19 20:54:28 <RST38h> wazd: E70 does relatively good job on web pages, I doubt e90 is any worse
Jan 19 20:54:38 <wazd> RST38h: e90 kb is totally awesome. Definitely my best mobile kb experience
Jan 19 20:54:59 <RST38h> wazd: actually, e70 is better in the keyboard department
Jan 19 20:55:04 <lcuk> thanks aquatix, its enough to just grab an odbc driver, i want reproducable results so ill just make a sync between the app db in access/sqlserver (different apps) and an sqlite db for mobile
Jan 19 20:55:14 <RST38h> wazd: but it comes at a cost of a somewhat awkward construction
Jan 19 20:55:41 <aquatix> lcuk:  apt-get install libmdbodbc
Jan 19 20:55:42 <aquatix> :)
Jan 19 20:55:49 <lcuk> windows..
Jan 19 20:55:50 <wazd> RST38h: is that little thing with qwerty? Can't check it out
Jan 19 20:55:53 <aquatix> lcuk: ah
Jan 19 20:56:17 * aquatix wouldn't mind having an E71
Jan 19 20:56:27 <lcuk> our shop is vb and *spit* .net i suppose at some point im gonna have to talk with them
Jan 19 20:56:51 <wazd> RST38h: it's quite slim as I remember
Jan 19 20:57:26 * lcuk fires up vb to test
Jan 19 20:58:17 <wazd> But I got used to E90 in fricking secons and started to shoot words
Jan 19 20:58:32 <Stskeeps> okay, python developers in here. which Debian packages do you use to get your stuff working?
Jan 19 20:58:35 <Stskeeps> on maemo
Jan 19 20:59:50 <lcuk> Stskeeps, khertan is the man you need to speak to
Jan 19 20:59:54 <TrueJournals> Stskeeps: Why not just look at the depends of a python application?
Jan 19 21:00:15 <Stskeeps> TrueJournals: just pondering which to prioritize on :)
Jan 19 21:00:24 <thopiekar> Stskeeps: apt-get install python* ^^
Jan 19 21:00:44 <thopiekar> should contain all packages...
Jan 19 21:00:53 <Stskeeps> hehe
Jan 19 21:01:33 <TrueJournals> Stskeeps: for pyrdesktop, I'm using python2.5, python2.5-hildon, python2.5-gtk2, python2.5-gnome, python2.5-conic
Jan 19 21:01:54 <Stskeeps> k
Jan 19 21:02:43 <Stskeeps> TrueJournals: i use that quite frequently :)
Jan 19 21:03:06 <TrueJournals> :)
Jan 19 21:03:30 <TrueJournals> And it works well?
Jan 19 21:03:49 <Stskeeps> yeah, mostly, some things are prolly just quirks due to the abuse i give it
Jan 19 21:04:09 <TrueJournals> Glad to hear it
Jan 19 21:09:10 <timelE61i> Fwiw, i tried working on mxr todsay, but it broke my network again
Jan 19 21:09:21 * timelE61i hunts food
Jan 19 21:09:42 <Stskeeps> timelE61i: sounds good and thanks for the effort put into it :)
Jan 19 21:11:43 <Stskeeps> python-gtk2, check, python-osso, check
Jan 19 21:12:25 <Stskeeps> .. what on earth is python-gnome
Jan 19 21:13:26 <TrueJournals> I believe it provides gnomevfs and gconf
Jan 19 21:17:22 <Stskeeps> k, should be there already
Jan 19 21:25:56 <zenvoid> Stskeeps, please tell me if this is correct: imager get compiled packages from mer repo first, and then from jaunty in there is no specific mer version. Packages with 'Prioriy: required' are selected (from the mix of both repos)
Jan 19 21:28:21 <Stskeeps> zenvoid: er. neither - it debootstraps a minimal ubuntu jaunty bootstrap, and then it adds pinning, that is, the packages in the mer repository override the ones in jaunty repository
Jan 19 21:28:32 <Stskeeps> minimal = minbase variant
Jan 19 21:28:42 <Stskeeps> and then it apt-gets everything in
Jan 19 21:29:37 <zenvoid> ok
Jan 19 21:29:49 <Stskeeps> i would love a debootstrap that accepts pinning but life just isn't that easy :P
Jan 19 21:33:12 <zenvoid> I think I will try to adapt my bootstrap method (sorry, couln't resist...), just because it is a more familiar way to create images for me. Of course every new package and patch will go thrugh the standard mer procedure, NO MORE FORKS :)
Jan 19 21:33:36 <Stskeeps> bootstrap method of?
Jan 19 21:33:50 <zenvoid> to create tar.gz
Jan 19 21:33:57 <zenvoid> just for my own use
Jan 19 21:34:05 <zenvoid> it make me happy :)
Jan 19 21:34:13 <Stskeeps> hehe, as in using the imager or what do you mean?
Jan 19 21:36:58 <Stskeeps> only reason why we provide tar.gz's is cos we did Deblet where people debootstrapped from their own tablets :)
Jan 19 21:36:59 <zenvoid> yes, for creating images using the compiled packages, the same thing that imager does but in a way that I'm more comfortable
Jan 19 21:37:23 <Stskeeps> okay - beware we have specific tricks in the imager
Jan 19 21:37:32 <Stskeeps> such as xorg.conf and other stylings
Jan 19 21:37:42 <Stskeeps> so, which method would be more comfortable for you? :>
Jan 19 21:38:55 <zenvoid> hmmm... I'll look at them
Jan 19 21:39:21 <Stskeeps> basically what imager is a big configuration file, plus some debootstrap + apt-get and such commands
Jan 19 21:39:27 <Stskeeps> i'll gladly explain how it works
Jan 19 21:39:31 <zenvoid> which script has those tricks? :-)
Jan 19 21:41:43 <zenvoid> I'm sure is just better to use imager, it is just that I feel nostagic ;-)
Jan 19 21:42:32 <Stskeeps> if we quickly look at imager itself, it sets up a debootstrap command line based on some parameters, then it mounts the target chroot, fakes the invocation scripts of init.d, resolve all dependancies, set debconf presets if we need to, call some hooks in the configuration on what to do when done debootstrapping, and then it updates the OS, and installs the huge list of packages the configuration has put together, and then purges the packages we don't ...
Jan 19 21:42:38 <Stskeeps> ... need, clean up, remove downloaded debs, do additional hooks, allow invoke-rc.d and such to run again, done
Jan 19 21:42:46 <zenvoid> This way I get a better idea of how everything works, learn your tricks and WHY you need those tricks
Jan 19 21:43:16 <zenvoid> oh, thanks for your info
Jan 19 21:43:29 <Stskeeps> basically, look at targets/mer-n800-fs-only and work your way back
Jan 19 21:43:57 <zenvoid> ok. I'm sure that you will laugh: I'm using a forked debootstrap :-)
Jan 19 21:44:28 <Stskeeps> so are we, don't worry, we use a copied jaunty script :P
Jan 19 21:44:39 <Stskeeps> so what does your fork do?
Jan 19 21:48:20 <zenvoid> it is just a simple script that takes all 'priority required' and some manually provided packages, extract them (with ar, like debootstrap does in first stage) and prepares some scripts for first boot. It creates a first-stage.tar.gz. This can be done in x86 and without root (fakeroot)
Jan 19 21:48:53 <Stskeeps> yes, that's basically what debootstrap --foreign does
Jan 19 21:48:54 <Stskeeps> :P
Jan 19 21:49:06 <zenvoid> the first-stage.tar.gz can be placed into a real device, and it will exec the second stage at first boot
Jan 19 21:49:16 <Stskeeps> we just have so many dependancies and everything that it was just simpler to do it this way
Jan 19 21:49:28 <Stskeeps> the entire thing takes 3h50m for x86, 770, n8x0 images so
Jan 19 21:50:15 <zenvoid> uh?
Jan 19 21:50:36 <zenvoid> that is because jaunty deps, I guess
Jan 19 21:50:55 <Stskeeps> well, if we want to take the entire system, first and second stage is a bit moot, so :)
Jan 19 21:51:24 <Stskeeps> and in the log of the imager we can isolate if there's problems with the postinsts and everything immediately
Jan 19 21:51:38 <Stskeeps> such as applications depending on /proc/component_version for installation :)
Jan 19 21:52:29 <Stskeeps> so, instead of waiting about 1h30m for imager to run through, people take the tar.gz and just apt-get update; apt-get dist-upgrade as they go :)
Jan 19 21:53:25 <zenvoid> uhmmm... ok, but I won't be happy until I've mangled everything :-)
Jan 19 21:53:28 <Stskeeps> hehe
Jan 19 21:53:56 <Stskeeps> and i don't mind people working on imager either, meiz still uses it, the image builder uses it, r2d2rogers uses it, so :)
Jan 19 21:54:18 <Stskeeps> it's just a way to deal with the imaging process, so :P
Jan 19 21:55:21 <zenvoid> and the idea is to override jaunty packages when there are some interesting patches in maemo version?
Jan 19 21:55:46 <Stskeeps> yes, if we place them in mer repository, it will prefer the mer repository packages
Jan 19 21:56:18 <Stskeeps> http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/apt-howto/ch-apt-get.en.html
Jan 19 21:56:31 <Stskeeps> (3.10)
Jan 19 21:56:50 <zenvoid> ok, they are overriden by apt options
Jan 19 21:56:52 <Stskeeps> yes
Jan 19 21:57:03 <zenvoid> Pin
Jan 19 21:57:04 <Stskeeps> it's not a graceful solution, but it works well
Jan 19 21:57:28 <zenvoid> yeah, just trying to fill the gaps in my head with information
Jan 19 21:58:12 <Stskeeps> the only place pinning isn't in place is in the first debootstrap, but it might get solved when the imager does a dist-upgrade after debootstrap and setting up pinning
Jan 19 21:58:48 <zenvoid> ok
Jan 19 21:59:10 <zenvoid> and libc is from maemo or jaunty?
Jan 19 21:59:47 <zenvoid> jaunty, it seems
Jan 19 22:00:14 <Stskeeps> jaunty, we're not overriding that
Jan 19 22:00:30 <zenvoid> hmmm... what toolchain is used for scratchbox?
Jan 19 22:01:08 <Stskeeps> http://stskeeps.subnetmask.net/mer/arm-linux-cs2008q3-72-libtool2_1.0.11_i386.deb
Jan 19 22:01:18 <zenvoid> ok
Jan 19 22:01:29 <Stskeeps> builder is set up in a similar fashion as written on the wiki, but uses EABI qemu instead
Jan 19 22:02:04 <MaceN800> hm
Jan 19 22:02:11 <MaceN800> going to install kubuntu on my macbook
Jan 19 22:02:24 * zenvoid is downloading the toolchain :)
Jan 19 22:02:41 <Stskeeps> zenvoid: and we have a devkit which provides updated versions of some things
Jan 19 22:02:59 <Stskeeps> zenvoid: not a sb2 toolchain just for good measure :P
Jan 19 22:03:35 <opengeekv2> hey guys i've posted some mockups based on te wazd ones take a look please
Jan 19 22:04:00 <opengeekv2> opengeek.wordpress.com/maemomer-ui-mockup
Jan 19 22:05:09 <Stskeeps> opengeekv2: maybe, but it makes the selection one tap longer
Jan 19 22:05:16 <Stskeeps> or not..
Jan 19 22:05:31 <Stskeeps> opengeekv2: possible
Jan 19 22:05:46 <opengeekv2> what is the seleccion tap?
Jan 19 22:05:47 <Stskeeps> except it might be a nasty performance hit to shift your stuff 60 pixels down
Jan 19 22:06:40 <Stskeeps> opengeekv2: as in, how many touches it takes to do something :)
Jan 19 22:06:46 <Stskeeps> but i was wrong about that
Jan 19 22:06:56 <opengeekv2> the same as befor
Jan 19 22:07:26 <opengeekv2>  but the menus not cover the boddy of the app excessively
Jan 19 22:08:25 <zenvoid> opengeekv2: ah, you mean that when you tap the app icon, the menubar will appear in the window, right?
Jan 19 22:08:50 <opengeekv2> look the first image
Jan 19 22:09:27 <opengeekv2> you see how thw menu will be opened if we tho the things in the traditional way
Jan 19 22:09:41 <zenvoid> opengeekv2: second try: when you tap on the menu buton at the center, it appears a title+menu bar (?)
Jan 19 22:09:59 <opengeekv2> yes that's the idea
Jan 19 22:10:16 <opengeekv2> but tittle could be removed if people gets used to ignore it
Jan 19 22:11:38 <opengeekv2> these mockup's are not at the levol of wazd ones but i think the idea is good expressed no?
Jan 19 22:12:06 <Stskeeps> opengeekv2: well, it's an interesting idea, i'm just worried about the amount of shifting needed :)
Jan 19 22:12:20 <zenvoid> opengeekv2: :D yes, thanks for sharing your thoughts
Jan 19 22:13:06 <zenvoid> it will require changes to gtk, I think...
Jan 19 22:14:03 <zenvoid> could be difficult to implement
Jan 19 22:14:19 <opengeekv2> i supose that is easy to imagine things without knowing the difficult to implement this things
Jan 19 22:14:25 <Stskeeps> yeah
Jan 19 22:14:38 <zenvoid> ... but it is not bad idea
Jan 19 22:15:10 <opengeekv2> i want to finish my degreee (and i've done only 4 months)
Jan 19 22:15:21 <zenvoid> of course it is easier to use maemo menus, because they are already done :-)
Jan 19 22:15:32 <Stskeeps> opengeekv2: what degree are you taking btw?
Jan 19 22:15:37 <Stskeeps> computer science?
Jan 19 22:17:09 <opengeekv2> yes
Jan 19 22:17:30 <opengeekv2> in barcelona
Jan 19 22:17:35 <Stskeeps> alright
Jan 19 22:17:42 <zenvoid> started this year?
Jan 19 22:17:45 <opengeekv2> yes
Jan 19 22:17:55 <Stskeeps> i have to start my thesis in 2 weeks, heh
Jan 19 22:18:06 <Stskeeps> (masters)
Jan 19 22:18:18 <opengeekv2> i'm fresh meat or "carne de cañon"
Jan 19 22:18:37 <Stskeeps> hehe
Jan 19 22:18:57 <opengeekv2> it means tha in 6/7 years i'll be es professional as you XD
Jan 19 22:19:01 <opengeekv2> great
Jan 19 22:19:40 <Stskeeps> meh. i started coding at 6 ;)
Jan 19 22:20:38 <opengeekv2> yes as mozart playing piano
Jan 19 22:21:15 <opengeekv2> with was age oyu wrote your first operating system XD
Jan 19 22:21:42 <Stskeeps> nah, i'm not that good. the benefit of a computer science degree is that you realize there's people who are a lot smarter than you, and how to make them think your idea was their idea ;)
Jan 19 22:21:58 <Stskeeps> (and hence execute it in practice)
Jan 19 22:22:20 <opengeekv2> ammm
Jan 19 22:23:02 <Stskeeps> or something. either way, it's worth it :P
Jan 19 22:23:03 <zenvoid_> shit... lost connection
Jan 19 22:23:39 <zenvoid_> my previous zenvoid is still connected :P
Jan 19 22:23:46 <Stskeeps> hehe
Jan 19 22:24:21 <zenvoid_> i'll try to kick him :)
Jan 19 22:25:11 <opengeekv2> hey guys i'm too sleepy now
Jan 19 22:25:16 <Stskeeps> gnite
Jan 19 22:25:20 * Stskeeps just had some coffee :P
Jan 19 22:25:52 <opengeekv2> how many stskeeps are there (they apoear with deifferent colours)
Jan 19 22:26:02 <Stskeeps> err. depends
Jan 19 22:26:07 <Stskeeps> n800 is when i'm mobile on my tablet
Jan 19 22:26:17 <Stskeeps> laptop is on my laptop, and stskeeps is my server :P
Jan 19 22:27:11 <opengeekv2> ohh ok
Jan 19 22:27:12 <zenvoid_> opengeekv2: tried to record those seagulls?
Jan 19 22:27:39 * Stskeeps listens to the half-snow-half-rain outside
Jan 19 22:27:48 <opengeekv2> not my mum is sick (grioe intestinal) and I have to stay at home
Jan 19 22:28:17 <opengeekv2> cuidando de ella
Jan 19 22:28:28 <zenvoid_> opengeekv2: ok
Jan 19 22:28:33 <zenvoid_> spangish :-)
Jan 19 22:28:39 <opengeekv2> yes XD
Jan 19 22:28:40 <zenvoid_> spanglish
Jan 19 22:28:55 <opengeekv2> gnite everybody
Jan 19 22:29:21 <Stskeeps> oh boy. primary school teacher adding you on facebook.
Jan 19 22:29:33 <moontiger> lol
Jan 19 22:29:46 <zenvoid_> sometimes I read my english phrases in the and I don't ever understand myself
Jan 19 22:30:08 <Stskeeps> fair enough, let her see that i was one of the only of her students who made it to university :P
Jan 19 22:30:25 <Stskeeps> with a brilliant picture of me smoking, drinking at a festival, and being dirty and sunburnt.
Jan 19 22:30:34 <moontiger> what festival?
Jan 19 22:30:48 <Stskeeps> www.roskilde-festival.dk in this case :P
Jan 19 22:31:10 <andre__> haha
Jan 19 22:31:19 <Stskeeps> http://www.daimi.au.dk/~cvm/fb.JPG :>
Jan 19 22:31:56 * Stskeeps loves facebook for freaking out old teachers and such.
Jan 19 22:32:01 <moontiger> haha nice
Jan 19 22:32:02 <moontiger> :)
Jan 19 22:32:46 <fireun> "remember that one time, you gave me an F!?"
Jan 19 22:35:18 <moontiger> hey Stskeeps ... do you do any work on the rotation support for the n810?
Jan 19 22:35:52 <Stskeeps> moontiger: nop. in mer we have rotation issues now too :P i think jott did the rotation support
Jan 19 22:36:32 <moontiger> ok ... i was wondering if it is compatible with the new SSU stuff that came out a week or two ago
Jan 19 22:37:38 <Stskeeps> i'm not sure, didn't use it myself so :P
Jan 19 22:37:53 <GeneralAntilles> It's compatible, I dunno if anybody has compiled binaries, though.
Jan 19 22:38:22 <qwerty12_N800> jott updated his page.
Jan 19 22:38:51 <Stskeeps> b-man: any new release of installer btw?
Jan 19 22:39:34 * Stskeeps goes test out pygtk and py-hildon on mer
Jan 19 22:39:59 <b-man> not yet, i am still doing some debuging (and i was busy studying for a semester exam ;p)
Jan 19 22:40:10 <Stskeeps> hehe
Jan 19 22:40:24 <Stskeeps> i have a human computer interaction exam in 34 hours or so
Jan 19 22:40:31 <Stskeeps> guess what's more funny, reading about it, or performing it
Jan 19 22:41:02 <b-man> preforming for it? :)
Jan 19 22:42:21 <Stskeeps> hehe
Jan 19 22:42:23 <Stskeeps> yeah :P
Jan 19 22:42:31 <b-man> lol
Jan 19 22:42:42 * b-man wishes he did not suck at history
Jan 19 22:43:36 <Stskeeps> history is okay if you're the kind of kid who was allowed to sit and watch the evening news with parents from he was 5
Jan 19 22:43:42 <Stskeeps> you collect a bunch of info through there :P
Jan 19 22:43:48 <b-man> (studying about post-ww2)
Jan 19 22:44:14 <b-man> hehe
Jan 19 22:46:01 <cyberdora> Stskeeps, could you help me install deblet on N770?
Jan 19 22:46:54 <moontiger> thnx Stskeeps ... what is his page address?
Jan 19 22:47:18 <Stskeeps> http://sse2.net/rotate/
Jan 19 22:47:24 <moontiger> thnx :)
Jan 19 22:47:26 <moontiger> bbl
Jan 19 22:47:30 <Stskeeps> cyberdora: most work is being done in Mer for 770 really, deblet's succesor
Jan 19 22:48:21 <b-man|gentoo|n80> grr
Jan 19 22:49:17 * b-man|gentoo|n80 wishes xchat would let him change to b-man|gentoo|n800
Jan 19 22:49:27 <Stskeeps> nickname length
Jan 19 22:49:54 <b-man|gentoo> yeah :p
Jan 19 22:51:51 * b-man|gentoo starts installing applications in gentoo :)
Jan 19 22:52:34 <tank-man> you mean compiling?
Jan 19 22:52:39 <cyberdora> ok, thanks :)
Jan 19 22:52:54 <b-man|gentoo> shure :p
Jan 19 22:53:45 * b-man|gentoo wishes emerge --sync would not take so long
Jan 19 22:55:31 <lcuk> b-man|gentoo, if you think you got it bad, ive gotta write the programs before i can emerge them
Jan 19 22:56:00 * Stskeeps notes osso python package is weird
Jan 19 22:56:12 <b-gentoo> lcuk: hehe
Jan 19 22:58:50 <GeneralAntilles> https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3961#c2
Jan 19 22:59:00 <GeneralAntilles> I'm tempted to respond: "What, all 6 of them?"
Jan 19 22:59:29 <Stskeeps> wtf :P
Jan 19 22:59:58 <b-gentoo> lol
Jan 19 23:00:03 <Stskeeps> his bug report is weird
Jan 19 23:00:07 <GeneralAntilles> He's way out of the loop for managing to be shouting everywhere all the time.
Jan 19 23:00:11 <GeneralAntilles> Stskeeps, don't get me started.
Jan 19 23:00:17 <GeneralAntilles> ALL of his bug reports are weird.
Jan 19 23:00:45 <GeneralAntilles> and they _all_ JUST manage not to cross the line into immediate invalidity.
Jan 19 23:01:07 <GeneralAntilles> They're _just_ _barely_ cogent enough that I have to actually treat them like real reports.
Jan 19 23:01:10 <Stskeeps> GeneralAntilles: i'd be tempted to suggest you to write "Mer will support N810W", but i'm not sure that's a direction you should send him in :P
Jan 19 23:01:25 <GeneralAntilles> Stskeeps, you don't want him anywhere near your project.
Jan 19 23:01:34 <Stskeeps> exactly.
Jan 19 23:01:37 <b-gentoo> lol x1000
Jan 19 23:01:45 <b-gentoo> XD
Jan 19 23:01:49 <GeneralAntilles> Triaging a single one of his reports takes about as much time and effort as triaging 10 or 11 of anybody else's.
Jan 19 23:02:46 <Stskeeps> i'm just glad i'm having one of my bug reports taken fairly seriously atm
Jan 19 23:05:41 <Stskeeps> oh boy.
Jan 19 23:06:24 <Stskeeps> and of course pymaemo has changed the semantics of import
Jan 19 23:06:26 <Stskeeps> https://garage.maemo.org/svn/pymaemo/packages/python/branches/chinook/debian/patches/04-import.patch
Jan 19 23:06:45 <Stskeeps> which means the bindings they use is of course built for that specific hack
Jan 19 23:13:09 * b-gentoo wonders if there is a graphical package manager for gentoo such as synaptic
Jan 19 23:14:07 <Stskeeps> doubt it :P
Jan 19 23:14:15 <Stskeeps> it's not a package system, it builds everything on tablet :P
Jan 19 23:14:47 <b-gentoo> hmm
Jan 19 23:17:06 * b-gentoo notices "it is frequently seen as the best software management tool available for Linux" and laughs
Jan 19 23:17:44 <Stskeeps> maybe
Jan 19 23:20:27 * b-gentoo would be concerned about memory consumsion and speed
Jan 19 23:21:15 <Stskeeps> when compiled its probably very optimized, though
Jan 19 23:21:47 <b-gentoo> good point
Jan 19 23:25:00 <lcuk> damn damn damn i have "lost" a module of code
Jan 19 23:26:21 <Proteous> did you check around in your bellybutton lint?
Jan 19 23:27:48 <lcuk> it was just some encoded thoughts i had and they have been engulfed by my archives (it wasnt important or complete at the time so was not given a real name). i used to use .zip and windows can search it natively, but now in linux they are stored as .tar.gz and windows doesnt understand it natively to search
Jan 19 23:29:30 <lcuk> \o/ huzzzzzah
Jan 19 23:30:10 * lcuk randomly extracted a few breakpoints and it found it
Jan 19 23:33:19 <b-gentoo> sweet!!! emerge --synk is finally done!
Jan 19 23:33:25 <lcuk> that was quick
Jan 19 23:33:35 <b-gentoo> quick?
Jan 19 23:33:47 <b-gentoo> 0_o
Jan 19 23:41:36 * b-gentoo is getting frustrated by emerge
Jan 19 23:43:55 <StsN800> qt  and kde will take most of your teens to compile
Jan 19 23:44:33 <lcuk> heh
Jan 19 23:44:34 <b-gentoo> lol
Jan 19 23:44:59 <b-gentoo> emerge keeps failing though :p
Jan 19 23:45:22 <lcuk> b-gentoo, then expect to be somewhere in your 40s
Jan 19 23:45:38 <b-gentoo> lol XD
Jan 19 23:45:50 <lcuk> gah my fingers are too cold to code
Jan 19 23:45:59 * lcuk wants a trained monkey
Jan 19 23:46:59 <b-gentoo> emerge is stating "!!! All ebuilds that could satisfy "app-office/gnumeric" have been masked.; !!! One of the following masked packages is required to complete your request: - app-office/gnumeric-1.8.3 (masked by: missing keyword)" :P
Jan 19 23:47:28 <b-gentoo> but for every package
Jan 19 23:48:04 <b-gentoo> lcuk: go to petco :)
Jan 19 23:52:55 <lcuk> :) the_user_formally_known_as_b-gentoo no, but i keep looking out for people with the right coding skills :)
Jan 19 23:53:49 <FireFox> hehe
Jan 19 23:56:21 <Jaffa> Stskeeps: oh? you don't think it was x86_64 issues?
Jan 19 23:57:11 <StsN800> Jaffa, no, i remember johnx having similar issue
Jan 19 23:57:34 <StsN800> spooky dbus problem or something
Jan 19 23:58:11 <Jaffa> Since it's a chroot, with its own 32-bit libraries, x86_64 host might not be an issue. So you might be right.
Jan 19 23:58:20 <StsN800> vdi or just compiling works fine
Jan 19 23:58:57 <StsN800> or physical machine :)
Jan 20 00:00:46 <StsN800> but if you figure out what goes wrong im most interested
Jan 20 00:01:27 <StsN800> i suspect bind /tmp makes it collide with your main system dbus
Jan 20 00:01:55 <StsN800> perhaps only bind /tmp/.X11-unix
Jan 20 00:05:36 <Jaffa> StsN800: that sounds plausible.
Jan 20 00:06:54 <StsN800> i'd be happy if that solves it:P but you might have to /etc/init.d/dbus start in chroot
Jan 20 00:09:40 <Jaffa> As soon as this machine is working, I'll give it a go
Jan 20 00:10:06 <StsN800> k
Jan 20 00:10:18 <StsN800> im off to bed
Jan 20 00:11:38 <FireFox> g'night
Jan 20 00:12:11 * FireFox starts bugging people over at #gentoo
Jan 20 00:13:20 <StsN800> FireFox, be aware cos its unofficial port
Jan 20 00:13:47 <StsN800> not sure armel eabi was supported before
Jan 20 00:14:03 <FireFox> ok
Jan 20 00:19:38 <fauxmight> slonopotamus, ping
Jan 20 00:32:00 <lcuk> quick q: given this folder :: how do i make that apt-getable ?
Jan 20 00:32:00 <lcuk> http://repository.maemo.org/pool/fremantle/free/s/sqlite3/
Jan 20 00:32:16 <lcuk> ie, whats the deb line :$
Jan 20 00:36:23 <lcuk> nooooooooooo it wants to upgrade my compiler :'( gcc-4.2-base libgcc1 libsqlite3-dev libsqlite3-0
Jan 20 00:36:31 <lcuk> :D should i
Jan 20 00:36:57 <FireFox> shure
Jan 20 00:38:26 * lcuk does what the internet says
Jan 20 00:38:37 <lcuk> if this puts me back months of dev time now you are in for it:P
Jan 20 00:38:51 <lcuk> tbh though, is there anything good in gcc4
Jan 20 00:38:59 <FireFox> hehe
Jan 20 00:39:13 <derf> gcc4 vs. gcc3? God yes.
Jan 20 00:39:21 <neatojones> you can usually install more than one compiler and chose which one you want to use
Jan 20 00:42:13 <Jaffa> Stskeeps: you were right. It was a /tmp bind mount problem. Instructions on Mer_Blueprint for chroot updated. I can see a Mer desktop :-)
Jan 20 00:42:26 <lcuk> arghhhh no dont want multiple, that will hurt my brain
Jan 20 00:42:38 <lcuk> is gcc4 working nicely or am i expected to file bugs?
Jan 20 00:42:45 <lcuk> or have to make drastic changes to code?
Jan 20 00:43:03 <lcuk> since it is in the fremantle branch :$
Jan 20 00:43:27 <lcuk> i only want the new sqlite
Jan 20 00:44:25 * Jaffa plays with the kinetic scrolling Fremantle goodness in mer
Jan 20 00:44:27 <Jaffa> Nice.
Jan 20 00:44:58 <Jaffa> (for example, start Mer; start MaemoPad; click File > Save; change folder, drag up and down; watch bouncing kineticness)
Jan 20 00:45:21 <dick-richardson> Jaffa, you doing that on an n810?
Jan 20 00:45:28 <lcuk> is it smooth though?
Jan 20 00:45:30 <Jaffa> No, on x86 at the moment
Jan 20 00:45:40 <dick-richardson> kk
Jan 20 00:45:45 <Jaffa> lcuk: who knows, I've not tried mer on my tablet yet
Jan 20 00:46:05 * Jaffa will probably try and do Hildon App Manager for it tomorrow. See if we get the shiny scrolling for free in there
Jan 20 00:46:14 <lcuk> :)
Jan 20 00:46:40 <neatojones> I loaded mer on my N810 but couldn't get past the wizard because my keyboard didn't work.
Jan 20 00:46:43 <dick-richardson> any wild speculation on which cell carriers would be able to support the next hardware?
Jan 20 00:46:52 <Jaffa> Any which support HSPA.
Jan 20 00:46:58 <neatojones> any idea on how to get around it?
Jan 20 00:47:16 <dick-richardson> Jaffa, thanks :)
Jan 20 00:47:25 <StsN800> neatojones, HIM ought to work
Jan 20 00:47:35 <StsN800> click text field
Jan 20 00:47:59 <neatojones> I did, no keyboard popped up and the keyboard on the device didn't do anything
Jan 20 00:48:19 <neatojones> I tried changing the xmodmap from chroot and still got no response
Jan 20 00:48:41 <StsN800> try harder, but then again it might take time for him to come up
Jan 20 00:48:56 <dick-richardson> so probably not verizon...evdo != hspa
Jan 20 00:48:57 <neatojones> I expect that once I get into the hildon, I can use the virtual keyboard
Jan 20 00:49:02 <StsN800> i dont have n810 so
Jan 20 00:49:25 <neatojones> does the virtual keyboard pop up for you within a few minutes?
Jan 20 00:49:46 * FireFox is discusted when people over at #gentoo keep refering to ubuntu as a "little newbie os"
Jan 20 00:50:06 <StsN800> neatojones, i think so
Jan 20 00:50:24 <StsN800> after clicking once
Jan 20 00:50:40 <lcuk> Setting up gcc-4.2-base (4.2.1-4maemo2) ...
Jan 20 00:50:40 <lcuk> ln: /usr/share/doc/gcc-4.2-base/.copyright: No such file or directory
Jan 20 00:50:40 <lcuk> dpkg: error processing gcc-4.2-base (--configure):
Jan 20 00:50:48 <lcuk> :$ has docpurge eaten it?
Jan 20 00:50:57 <neatojones> I gave up on hildon because of it.  Tried removing the wizard and auto-startx packages, but then it wouldn't go past the mer splash anymore
Jan 20 00:50:58 <lcuk> sorry for scrolly but it was v short
Jan 20 00:51:29 <lcuk> FireFox, as a noobie i wholeheartedly support their opinion
Jan 20 00:51:46 <neatojones> so, I tried gnome env but all I ended up with was a blank screen and a mouse.  (Same problem with XFCE)
Jan 20 00:51:48 <StsN800> neatojones, auto-startx is good idea if you want hildon
Jan 20 00:52:04 <neatojones> well, I tried using a few of the deblet packages to get around it.
Jan 20 00:52:23 <neatojones> no joy.:(  Thanks though STS
Jan 20 00:53:10 <FireFox> lcuk: shure, it is a great os for newbies but the way thay refer to it sounds a little insulting :p
Jan 20 00:53:17 <StsN800> feel free to file a bug that n810 has troubles
Jan 20 00:53:35 <dick-richardson> anyone using mauku?
Jan 20 00:54:05 <lcuk> firefox, and why not, you are grand masters at building.
Jan 20 00:54:08 <neatojones> will do.
Jan 20 00:54:20 <neatojones> I've been hacking, trying to get around it for about a week
Jan 20 00:54:51 <StsN800> 0.6 image?
Jan 20 00:54:55 <neatojones> Yeah
Jan 20 00:55:35 <StsN800> which i released 2 days ago;)
Jan 20 00:56:01 <neatojones> STS: I used the tar image and the instructions from b-man on itt.  I tried the installer, but it keeps crashing.  I tried finding the problem, but my internet died all day
Jan 20 00:56:08 <neatojones> I actually got it several days ago
Jan 20 00:56:10 <StsN800> k
Jan 20 00:56:27 <neatojones> you posted it before you posted that you posted it...i noticed :D
Jan 20 00:56:52 <neatojones> (on itt anyway)
Jan 20 00:56:57 <StsN800> mm
Jan 20 00:57:13 <b-man> hello neatojones
Jan 20 00:57:18 <neatojones> hello
Jan 20 00:57:50 <neatojones> now, I'm actually working on installing mamona to see if I can find something, they did that I'm missing in mer
Jan 20 00:58:00 <StsN800> we posted new installers up to and after post so
Jan 20 00:58:01 <neatojones> my keyboard works fine in mamona
Jan 20 00:58:26 <neatojones> I think it was 1.7???
Jan 20 00:58:31 <neatojones> does that sound right?
Jan 20 00:58:48 <StsN800> i think its just missing fdi on n810
Jan 20 00:58:57 <LinuxHack3r> So tell me...the Nokia N810...I've read that is has "up to 2GB internal memory". What's that mean? Does it have 2GB internal memory or not?
Jan 20 00:59:05 <neatojones> fdi?
Jan 20 00:59:22 <b-man> neatojones; did you have any luck with ubuntu btw?
Jan 20 00:59:26 <neatojones> LinuxHack3r:  Yes 2GB internal memory
Jan 20 00:59:45 <neatojones> yeah, I got it going up until that blue screen (remind me of windows) hehe
Jan 20 01:00:06 <LinuxHack3r> neatojones: So the "up to" basically means depending on what's installed, I suppose? So when mine arrives in the mail...how much should be free?
Jan 20 01:00:08 <neatojones> I can't tell if nautilus is running
Jan 20 01:00:21 <LinuxHack3r> Trying to figure out if I should try and find a card before it arrives.
Jan 20 01:00:36 <lcuk> fscking docpurge
Jan 20 01:00:51 <neatojones> LinuxHack3r: about 400MB on the internal is left.  You can remove the maps and get the full 2GB if you don't plan on using the map app pre installed
Jan 20 01:01:04 <b-man> neatojones: blue screen, in ubuntu?!? 0_o lol XD
Jan 20 01:01:09 <LinuxHack3r> neatojones: the full 2GB? What about the os?
Jan 20 01:01:45 <neatojones> LInuxHack3r:  The os is on another drive that is also internal but slightly different
Jan 20 01:01:48 <StsN800> 256 mb internal flash, 2gb internal mmc
Jan 20 01:02:05 <LinuxHack3r> neatojones: Oh....ok.
Jan 20 01:02:32 <neatojones> b-man:  Not sure if it's gnome or not.  It's the same thing if I install xfce.  I think it might be some failsafe env or somthing
Jan 20 01:02:56 <neatojones> It would be like a background minus any wallpaper with a cursor that is moveable.
Jan 20 01:03:08 <neatojones> no panels.  No login.
Jan 20 01:03:16 <neatojones> no text...nothing
Jan 20 01:03:53 <neatojones> I tried to figure out how to get the system to log, but it seems like ubuntu has confusing documentation about this
Jan 20 01:04:09 <neatojones> no one could agree about how to do it in intrepid
Jan 20 01:04:24 <neatojones> so, no log:  No idea if everything is starting.  could even be a dbus problem
Jan 20 01:05:10 <LinuxHack3r> neatojones: So I read somewhere that it supports up to an 8GB card. Is the really the max?
Jan 20 01:05:42 <neatojones> LH: I'm using an 8GB.  No idea if larger works...but I think they ought to.
Jan 20 01:06:05 <neatojones> LH: 8GB is about the largest most people reasonable afford right now anyway
Jan 20 01:06:47 <LinuxHack3r> neatojones: I'm newegging...amazon...I really cannot find many. I can find really cheap microsd 16GB though...so I think they make micro to mini adapters. Would that work right?
Jan 20 01:07:38 <neatojones> LH: Besides, I've seen speed tests and it appears that the larger cards are slower.  Not sure if this is true across the board, but from the tests I saw it was.  The adaptors are the way to go.
Jan 20 01:08:32 <LinuxHack3r> neatojones: Are you saying micro is faster than mini, or 16gb is slower than 8gb?
Jan 20 01:08:45 <neatojones> Anyone have any reason why I shouldn't (For today, anyway) wed my N810 to mamona.  If so, speak now or forever hold your peace?...
Jan 20 01:10:29 <LinuxHack3r> neatojones: http://www.amazon.com/SanDisk-microSDHC-CLASS-SDSDQ-8192-Package/dp/B0012Y2LLE/ref=pd_bxgy_e_img_b
Jan 20 01:10:39 <LinuxHack3r> neatojones: http://www.amazon.com/Sandisk-MicroSD-MiniSD-Adapter-Package/dp/B000TLXCDW/ref=pd_bxgy_e_img_c
Jan 20 01:10:55 <neatojones> The 16gb was slower than 4GB and 8GB
Jan 20 01:11:06 <LinuxHack3r> That should do it shouldn't it? That's actually rather quite cheap. Too bad theirs a fairly large price jump to the 16gb.
Jan 20 01:12:13 <neatojones> LH: My package included a normal SD adapter, mini-sd adapter, and micro-sd
Jan 20 01:13:12 <LinuxHack3r> neatojones: http://www.jr.com/nokia/pe/NOK_NOKIAN810/
Jan 20 01:13:25 <LinuxHack3r> I hope my package contains the Nokia N810.
Jan 20 01:14:34 <neatojones> It appears as though that is what you bought
Jan 20 01:14:58 <b-man> neatojones: based on those problems you had with gnome/xfce, it looks like that session problem might be related to a ubuntu bug :(
Jan 20 01:15:56 <neatojones> b-man:  GDM won't even load. It just stalls out.  Any idea of why that is?
Jan 20 01:15:59 <LinuxHack3r> neatojones: Well it appears..but I've personally never even heard of Jr.com. Someone showed me the link...I think it was sisto. So if I get it for that price...I'm a happy camper. Just hope it's legit.
Jan 20 01:16:28 <sisto> LinuxHack3r: hi
Jan 20 01:16:40 <LinuxHack3r> sisto: Hi there.
Jan 20 01:16:40 <neatojones> LH: I got a class6 8GB micro with the mini adapter included on newegg for less than 15
Jan 20 01:16:43 <b-man> neatojones: mabe it could be a nother xserver-xorg problem
Jan 20 01:17:04 <LinuxHack3r> sisto: http://www.amazon.com/SanDisk-microSDHC-CLASS-SDSDQ-8192-Package/dp/B0012Y2LLE/ref=pd_bxgy_e_img_b
Jan 20 01:17:04 <LinuxHack3r> http://www.amazon.com/Sandisk-MicroSD-MiniSD-Adapter-Package/dp/B000TLXCDW/ref=pd_bxgy_e_img_c
Jan 20 01:17:04 <sisto> LinuxHack3r: didn't you call them to ask how long it would take to ship?
Jan 20 01:17:30 <neatojones> b-man:  Which is preferred:  The xserver-xorg package or the xserver-omap (or whatever it's called) from the mer repo?
Jan 20 01:17:36 <LinuxHack3r> sisto: I actually did...he said he didn't know but there was an order placed for more. BTW, ^ Those links look like they'll work?
Jan 20 01:18:16 <sisto> wow nice price for those
Jan 20 01:19:05 <LinuxHack3r> sisto: Is it? And will a 16Gb work? If so...how much slower would it be over th 8GB?
Jan 20 01:19:08 <neatojones> b-man: it is my understanding that they are equivalent packages, but the jaunty xserver-xorg is newer and with possibly more (generic) dependencies.
Jan 20 01:19:28 <sisto> no idea about the 16 gb... i was asking the same thing a couple days ago
Jan 20 01:20:38 <sisto> I'm still wondering whether to buy an eee 901 or a n810
Jan 20 01:20:40 <LinuxHack3r> sisto: Perhaps I'll wait until they are cheaper than dirt as well. An additional 8GB should be plenty for now. Considering the fact I'm not planning on putting music on it....
Jan 20 01:20:40 <b-man> xserver-xomap is the same server maemo uses. xserver-xorg is a slightly different xserver
Jan 20 01:20:53 <LinuxHack3r> sisto: You don't even have a n810?
Jan 20 01:21:00 <sisto> i don't
Jan 20 01:21:01 <b-man> (has more features)
Jan 20 01:21:49 <LinuxHack3r> sisto: Oh...ok. So you just sold me something that you don't even know if works ;)
Jan 20 01:21:50 <neatojones> b-man: are you still able to load gnome?
Jan 20 01:21:55 <neatojones> ...or xfce?
Jan 20 01:22:05 <b-man> not atm :(
Jan 20 01:22:26 <b-man> (i was untill i re-installed ubuntu)
Jan 20 01:23:26 <LinuxHack3r> neatojones: So do you have a mini or micro sd? Just wondering if they adapter card strategy affects performances...
Jan 20 01:23:42 <neatojones> LH: micro with mini adapter
Jan 20 01:23:56 <LinuxHack3r> neatojones: So it works fine?
Jan 20 01:24:00 <neatojones> Mini's cost more and probably have the same mechanics underneath
Jan 20 01:24:02 <neatojones> yeah
Jan 20 01:24:09 <neatojones> LH: works for me
Jan 20 01:24:18 <LinuxHack3r> Then it's settled. Amazon ftw!
Jan 20 01:24:23 <sisto> LinuxHack3r: this is the only nokia device i have: http://www.gsmarena.com/nokia_1208-1977.php
Jan 20 01:24:39 <sisto> cost me 20 bucks
Jan 20 01:24:45 <LinuxHack3r> sisto: I considered a nokia phone...never looked into the.
Jan 20 01:24:52 <neatojones> LH: also have a 4GB micro.  I use the 8GB for alternate OS'es and th 4GB for media and maps.  Still haven't ever filled the 4
Jan 20 01:24:54 <LinuxHack3r> Does it really have a flashlight?
Jan 20 01:24:58 <sisto> yes
Jan 20 01:25:23 <b-man> neatojones: i'm guessing that it is pritty likely that it is a ubuntu janunty bug (witch i don't have any control over besides bugzilla) :(
Jan 20 01:25:24 <sisto> it works perfectly as a phone
Jan 20 01:25:34 <sisto> or flashlight :P
Jan 20 01:25:38 <LinuxHack3r> neatojones: It'd be hard to unless you put movies on there. BTW...if I encode a movie, basically at 800x480, mp4 or avi, will it play smoothly?
Jan 20 01:25:44 <LinuxHack3r> sisto: Awesome.
Jan 20 01:26:14 <neatojones> LH: encoded slightly lower than that.  It played perfectly.
Jan 20 01:26:38 <LinuxHack3r> neatojones: What's that mean? 800x479?
Jan 20 01:26:39 <neatojones> LH: Never done 800x480/I don't think it's a common format for video
Jan 20 01:27:00 <LinuxHack3r> neatojones: Oh..it's not..you'd have to keep the aspect ratio...but it'll work...is what you're saying...right?
Jan 20 01:27:06 <sisto> LinuxHack3r: i also have this one: http://www.gsmarena.com/i_mate_jam-963.php
Jan 20 01:27:12 <neatojones> LH: LIke 720x420 or something.  Yes, the aspect ration
Jan 20 01:27:18 <neatojones> ratio*
Jan 20 01:27:27 <sisto> LinuxHack3r: but am planning on retiring it for a n810
Jan 20 01:28:01 <LinuxHack3r> sisto: Cool. I can't wait for mine...it's going to be a long week or so.
Jan 20 01:28:26 <neatojones> Does any one no if mamona can use the standard OE repos. If so, does any one no what the Openembeded repos are?
Jan 20 01:28:46 <sisto> LinuxHack3r: i like the fact that my i-mate jam has embedded excel and word... that's why i was asking about those features on this chat room.. trying to find alternatives on maemo
Jan 20 01:28:49 <LinuxHack3r> neatojones: Cool. So tells me....what do you mean by alternative os's?
Jan 20 01:29:06 <LinuxHack3r> sisto: That's probably a good one, right there.
Jan 20 01:29:36 <neatojones> LH: Deblet, Mer, mamona, poky linux (which isn't usable on N810)
Jan 20 01:29:59 <LinuxHack3r> neatojones: So I'll find plenty of stuff to find!
Jan 20 01:30:30 <neatojones> LH: yeah.  There's plenty to do.
Jan 20 01:30:59 <sisto> do people dual boot like on the pc?
Jan 20 01:31:05 <bef0rd> yes
Jan 20 01:31:20 <sisto> does it work like on the pc? (having a grub menu with several options)
Jan 20 01:31:29 <bef0rd> yes
Jan 20 01:31:32 <bef0rd> not grub though
Jan 20 01:32:13 <bef0rd> https://wiki.maemo.org/Advanced_booting
Jan 20 01:32:15 <LinuxHack3r> bef0rd: That's cool.
Jan 20 01:32:29 <sisto> bef0rd: i was thinking about suggesting the n810 to my boss... he always talks about how he liked his old newton device... and how the iphone isn't anywhere near it
Jan 20 01:32:53 <sisto> i guess n810 is probably more like the newton?
Jan 20 01:32:57 <LinuxHack3r> sisto: You really don't know how close I was to buying an 8GB iphone.
Jan 20 01:33:11 <LinuxHack3r> What's a netwon?
Jan 20 01:33:27 <bef0rd> newton
Jan 20 01:33:33 <LinuxHack3r> yeah....newton
Jan 20 01:33:45 <bef0rd> apple's first pda
Jan 20 01:34:30 <LinuxHack3r> Oh...cool. l8r
Jan 20 01:35:21 <sisto> i don't really know what was so cool about those... never owned one
Jan 20 01:35:31 <bef0rd> sisto, there was a review of somebody comparing the n8x0/maemo with the newtons, let me see if I can find it
Jan 20 01:40:17 <sisto> bef0rd: this one? http://tabletui.wordpress.com/tag/newton/
Jan 20 01:41:30 <sisto> or maybe this one  http://cs.gmu.edu/~sean/stuff/n800/
Jan 20 01:41:40 <LinuxHack3r> I always buy sandisk...is it really the best?
Jan 20 01:42:08 <bef0rd> sisto, yeap, that one, check the http://cs.gmu.edu/~sean/stuff/n800/os2008/ os2008 review too
Jan 20 01:42:34 <sisto> bef0rd: thx
Jan 20 01:43:08 <sisto> bef0rd: looks like an interesting read
Jan 20 01:48:11 <LinuxHack3r> sisto: neatojones So...is there some way to sync the nokia with plaxo? I love contact management made easy.
Jan 20 01:49:17 <sisto> good question... i wonder whether i could sync my google contacts with the n810
Jan 20 01:49:32 <sisto> LinuxHack3r: btw i have no idea what plaxo is
Jan 20 01:49:57 <LinuxHack3r> sisto: plaxo.com....syncs my gmail...thunderbird....and a few others things' contacts.
Jan 20 01:50:08 <sisto> oh cool
Jan 20 01:50:30 <sisto> i sync thunderbird with google using a thunderbird plugin called zindus
Jan 20 01:50:42 <LinuxHack3r> sisto: * Checks thunderbird plugins
Jan 20 01:51:25 <LinuxHack3r> sisto: Ah yes...I thought that looked familiar...no wonder every contact I add to Thunderbird is synced to Gmail...then added to Plaxo. If my N810 will do plaxo...I'll be set.
Jan 20 01:53:08 * sisto is watching burn notice
Jan 20 01:54:09 <neatojones> My connection still sucks...
Jan 20 01:57:18 <LinuxHack3r> neatojones: So the entire Os fits on 256MB?
Jan 20 01:59:22 <neatojones> LH: yes
Jan 20 01:59:45 <neatojones> LH: with room to add programs that you like
Jan 20 02:01:29 <LinuxHack3r> Such as open-ssh, etc etc?
Jan 20 02:04:07 <LinuxHack3r> neatoHa! Battle for Wesnoth. It is a geeks device ;)
Jan 20 02:42:01 <`Mace> hm
Jan 20 02:42:09 <`Mace> is it possible to install ubuntu or kubuntu on a macbook
Jan 20 02:56:52 <bef0rd> yes
Jan 20 02:58:00 <neato_jones> b-man:  Do you know how to get an arm distro to use an armel repo?
Jan 20 02:59:42 <b-man> yes
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Jan 20 02:59:57 2009