**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Jan 22 02:59:57 2009 Jan 22 03:26:32 is there a way to use name completion on tablet version of xchat Jan 22 03:42:55 tab Jan 22 04:05:47 http://www.physorg.com/news151780812.html Jan 22 04:05:51 this is old news, right? Jan 22 04:08:53 woah Jan 22 04:09:05 i totally didn't expect that Jan 22 04:09:23 now they're collectors items Jan 22 04:09:23 sounds old Jan 22 04:09:41 it's not really "old", but it's not new Jan 22 04:10:30 get em while you can? Jan 22 04:10:50 maybe they did a deal with clearwire, and so will only be "bundled" Jan 22 04:11:55 http://www.mobileburn.com/news.jsp?Id=5986 -- Jan 7th Jan 22 04:13:18 what?!? 0_o Jan 22 04:14:58 * b-man is shocked Jan 22 04:15:37 mornin' all Jan 22 04:15:41 That wimax edition is discontinued? Or is that sarcasm :P Jan 22 04:15:44 b-man: what use was it? Jan 22 04:15:50 does anyone actually use wimax? Jan 22 04:16:17 I'd buy em at discount prices (: Jan 22 04:16:28 well, sure, who wouldn't? Jan 22 04:16:31 "distributors asked to return unsold units" Jan 22 04:16:37 what else will they do with em? Jan 22 04:16:39 g'mornin johnx Jan 22 04:17:11 if I could only trade 770s for a wimax 810 today.. Jan 22 04:17:29 some people seemed really happy with them in the areas they were supported Jan 22 04:17:49 there are ~5 wimax tablet users active on ITT who for the most part have said nothing but good things Jan 22 04:17:55 I wouldnt say wimax is dead, its just typical US slow adoption. Jan 22 04:18:09 well, hopefully it picks up Jan 22 04:19:08 hopefully a more than a few things in the US pick up Jan 22 04:19:22 yes :) Jan 22 04:19:39 like the metric system conversion Jan 22 04:21:03 the metric system is just confusing, moving the comma around n'all Jan 22 04:21:26 how many cups in a quart again? or wait, is it pints to a quart? Jan 22 04:21:35 We just need to follow the guidelines: http://xkcd.com/526/ Jan 22 04:21:35 what makes WiMax better than GPRS or such? Jan 22 04:21:53 and how come a pint of milk is not what I would consider equal to a pint of beer Jan 22 04:21:54 fireun: … don't you know your binary units? Jan 22 04:22:06 luke-jr: sorry Jan 22 04:22:15 luke-jr, well, from a technical standpoint it's faster and from an economic point it's not tied to US celluar carriers Jan 22 04:22:34 yeah, how do you SELL wimax? Jan 22 04:23:06 "Come here! Get your hot, fresh wimax! $5!" Jan 22 04:24:50 johnx: now if only the wireless spectrum had a bazaar like that, where you could see what services were offering in your area Jan 22 04:25:15 and pick which one you want (and magicaly it is paid for, somehow, securely, and transparently) Jan 22 04:25:32 its all a mess. Jan 22 04:25:35 well, intel is pushing it, so you might just see it in most laptops pretty soon Jan 22 04:25:53 after that it's just a matter of bundling an ad for it with new laptops Jan 22 04:26:03 we've talked about this before, wimax will never be noticed by the consumer, all they see is "my network works" Jan 22 04:26:47 the only place it will be noticed is in places with crappy (landline) ISPs Jan 22 04:45:24 hello Jan 22 04:45:46 hey due Jan 22 04:45:49 s/due/dude Jan 22 04:46:12 where can i find the command line whois for nokia 770 os 2006 ? Jan 22 04:46:48 Pavlz: jeez your using 2006? Jan 22 04:46:56 yes Jan 22 04:47:30 wow, not sure, that's just insane to hear though Jan 22 04:49:34 Pavlz: You can try http://http.us.debian.org/debian/pool/main/w/whois/whois_4.7.30_armel.deb Jan 22 04:49:42 Not sure if it will work or not, though Jan 22 04:50:13 You'll probably have to dpkg -i it Jan 22 04:52:42 whois isn't in maemo? Jan 22 04:52:49 oh, 770 Jan 22 04:55:32 incompatible the package Jan 22 04:55:56 and this why it's more recent Jan 22 04:56:28 :-( Jan 22 05:01:43 for ssh ? Jan 22 05:03:00 Pavlz, that's in extras Jan 22 05:03:49 johnx: did you see? the 770 is working great with your sapwood. Jan 22 05:04:23 r2d2rogers, that's great! Just keep in mind I did nothing but an easy compile job. :) Jan 22 05:04:47 RST38h and Stskeeps are the ones who caught this bug...though I sure have been chasing it for a long time O_o; Jan 22 05:05:06 I'm just glad it's working ;) Jan 22 05:05:21 yeah, that is quite awesome Jan 22 05:05:26 now time to get wireless and bluetooth working Jan 22 05:08:53 i don't know where to search Jan 22 05:09:14 Pavlz, gronmayer.com/it Jan 22 05:09:30 but *don't* just add all the repos there. add them only as you need them Jan 22 05:10:00 the first repo to add is extras though: http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras Jan 22 05:16:11 johnx: i LOVED adding all the repos there Jan 22 05:16:11 =) Jan 22 05:16:14 but i'm a freak Jan 22 05:17:01 didn't that end up putting you in a reboot loop or keep you from upgrading? I thought I remembered you have problems with it... Jan 22 05:17:54 nope Jan 22 05:18:03 you should see my debian sources.list too Jan 22 05:18:05 in fact Jan 22 05:18:16 http://ross154.net/~mprov/MASTER.sources.list Jan 22 05:18:22 debuntu sources.list is a little bit different Jan 22 05:18:51 a base debian/ubuntu system has almost all of what any 3rd party projects could need so conflicts are less likely Jan 22 05:19:28 anyways, it's still not recommended even if you had no problems with it. The fact is that other people have and it's no fun debugging... :/ Jan 22 05:37:56 * b-man sleeps, g'night everyone Jan 22 05:38:05 'night b-man Jan 22 06:12:23 hello Jan 22 06:14:27 where can i find the command line whois for nokia 770 ? Jan 22 06:15:05 i found openssh-client Jan 22 06:16:00 it might be easiest to compile it yourself Jan 22 06:16:00 now i need only of this last one Jan 22 06:17:17 the ubuntu i got on the tower pc does not work fine Jan 22 06:17:51 infact it doesn't authorize updates Jan 22 06:18:24 so gcc is not inside Jan 22 06:19:15 and i must to do a backup first to / GNU Deb-Ian Jan 22 06:27:10 where is the old wiki ? Jan 22 06:31:47 it's replaced by the new one Jan 22 06:33:38 and the applications ? Jan 22 06:34:32 some of the old repositories were closed down I think. many old things are now in extras Jan 22 06:37:20 well stupid thing Jan 22 07:18:52 moo all Jan 22 07:18:57 m00f Jan 22 07:19:00 * johnx yawns Jan 22 07:24:15 i don't find the command whois for nokia 770 Jan 22 07:25:56 I think you'll need to compile it yourself in scratchbox Jan 22 07:27:05 i don't find no binary and no source Jan 22 07:31:58 I invite maemo to put to disposition the older source code and binary Jan 22 07:32:39 I go to sleep Jan 22 07:32:44 ok Jan 22 07:33:05 We see this evening Jan 22 07:33:07 Pavlz, anyways, when you wakeup, get the source from the debian package and compile in scratchbox Jan 22 07:36:21 Is possible to remove the logo nokia at the boot Jan 22 07:36:35 and shutdown Jan 22 07:37:46 and see the init as happen in any distribution of GNU/linux ? Jan 22 07:39:15 I don't know how to do that for the 770. sorry :( Jan 22 07:39:59 thanks Jan 22 07:40:25 i go why my eyes are closing Jan 22 07:40:52 good night Jan 22 07:41:05 if you want to communicate me anything Jan 22 07:41:37 you can write to ninuxpdb@gmail.com Jan 22 07:41:47 bye bye Jan 22 07:42:00 Paolo Jan 22 07:42:13 johnx, http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer and http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer/Sprints Jan 22 07:42:41 objections? just add yourself to participants list Jan 22 07:42:56 so .7 by feb 1st? Jan 22 07:48:43 also, we'll end up with our own package of openssh-server? Jan 22 07:55:41 as for openssh...that and possibly some other packages could benefit from being installed with --unpack and having --configure run on first-boot Jan 22 07:56:04 starting to think grim thoughts about ending up pulling in debian-installer :/ Jan 22 08:04:12 0.7 is just release often and wrap up often Jan 22 08:09:39 timeless: sorry for the late reply, but i didn't look at the Dutch translation yet Jan 22 08:18:31 morning, all Jan 22 08:18:58 * johnx heads out to work, will hack on the train... Jan 22 08:23:58 Morning Jan 22 08:26:20 hello Jan 22 08:38:39 johnx: http://www.mobilemag.com/content/100/342/C5888/ Jan 22 08:39:03 Hmm. Hildon's confused and showing me the vim icon for X Terminal Jan 22 08:39:07 ah, you already commented on this thread =) Jan 22 08:39:41 Jaffa: vim isn't a terminal? Jan 22 08:39:43 ;) Jan 22 08:43:54 Well, the vim launcher does start a terminal, but that's beside the point ;-) Jan 22 08:45:48 Stskeeps: shouldn't the HAM task be in 0.7? (and, having a) got used to; b) starting to like bzr & LP, I see a 0.7 tasks to move to garage & git) Jan 22 08:48:21 :) Jan 22 08:48:32 running kubuntu instead of osx on my macbook has made me a happy person Jan 22 08:48:45 I just realized I don't have LaTeX and Auctex installed on my laptop... Jan 22 08:48:47 *sigh* Jan 22 08:48:48 Really? Jan 22 08:49:00 Myrtti: that's a miss indeed Jan 22 08:49:11 atleast I do have emacs already Jan 22 08:53:24 Jaffa: yes, true, my bad Jan 22 09:01:23 Stskeeps: mind if I do some prettification on the Mer page (include wazd's logo, for example) Jan 22 09:02:51 go ahead, you can move the task too Jan 22 09:03:58 boston legal is one of hte best shows ever Jan 22 09:04:02 it's almost as good as west wing Jan 22 09:04:22 I prefer Dr. House Jan 22 09:05:21 know what.. i know they are putting out new episodes but i really just stopped liking it after they got the new doctors Jan 22 09:26:43 Stskeeps: hopefully the frontpage is a bit nicer now. Ideally I'd pull across some of the large friendly buttons from http://www.bleb.org/software/maemo/maemo-org_mockup.png for getting involved & downloading Jan 22 09:29:19 Jaffa: At least they are finger friendly ;) Jan 22 09:29:24 :) Jan 22 09:30:03 Stskeeps: Once 1.0 is released, I think the main mer page should look more like http://www.getfirefox.com/ - logo, large text and easy download at top; detail underneath Jan 22 09:46:32 X-Fade: have we a mediawiki plugin installed which lets us embed RSS feeds? Jan 22 09:48:03 http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RSS_Reader Jan 22 09:48:22 Yeah, just looking at that. Would be good to add the #mer RSS to the page Jan 22 09:48:47 Jaffa: We don't have it installed, but I can check what it needs.. Jan 22 09:48:59 X-Fade: cool, ta. Jan 22 09:54:16 Jaffa: saw quim's reply on redistribution? Jan 22 09:54:28 Stslaptop: yes, promising :) Jan 22 09:54:58 indeed, except now we have to make a wishlist :P Jan 22 09:55:06 True Jan 22 09:55:51 pRogress? Jan 22 09:56:01 yes, indeed Jan 22 09:56:07 Dneary: Ping Jan 22 09:56:26 Jaffa: Should work now.. Jan 22 09:56:33 X-Fade: cool, let me try Jan 22 09:56:34 Could you please not write dates as xx/yy/zzzz unless xx is month? Jan 22 09:56:42 timelE61i: pong Jan 22 09:57:02 Jaffa: Maybe we need to add some CSS, but it at least seems to display feed items. Jan 22 09:57:04 timelE61i: Is that date thing what you wanted to tell me? Jan 22 09:57:18 Almost everywhere in the world we have dd/mm/yyyy Jan 22 09:57:26 And Americans are very adaptable Jan 22 09:57:37 yyyy-MM-dd is the best, non-confusing, ISO8601-compliant date format IMHO Jan 22 09:57:42 They'll get used to it :) Jan 22 09:57:43 dneary: Use yyyy/mm/dd, so there is no confusion. Jan 22 09:57:44 yeah, i'm with jaffa on it Jan 22 09:57:58 Jaffa: Indeed, I will try to use yyyy-mm-dd Jan 22 09:58:15 That date format sorts nicely too ;) Jan 22 09:58:20 or dd MMM yyyy Jan 22 09:58:55 Yes Jan 22 09:58:57 On the site we try to use yyyy-mm-dd everythere. Jan 22 09:59:56 Jaffa: the question is also if he means technical blockers as well as "things that would make Mer closer to Diablo on the nokia tablets so they don't loose anyhing" Jan 22 10:00:14 sts lOse Jan 22 10:00:34 timelE61i: fair enough. I haven't had my morning coffee yet :P Jan 22 10:00:35 * timelE61i looses grammar attack dogs at sts Jan 22 10:00:54 sorry. Speaking of Engrish Jan 22 10:01:03 The 770 shipped w/ maemo blocks Jan 22 10:01:09 game over Jan 22 10:01:12 You loose Jan 22 10:01:14 X-Fade: looks good Jan 22 10:01:19 Which is a terrible insult Jan 22 10:01:28 Jaffa: Great! Jan 22 10:01:31 (to females) Jan 22 10:01:37 timelE61i: it is? Jan 22 10:01:57 Aquatix: loose would mean morally loose Jan 22 10:02:01 oh Jan 22 10:02:04 (sleep w/ anyone) Jan 22 10:02:16 wouldn't that need the word `are' in that sentence too? Jan 22 10:02:39 not absolutely Jan 22 10:02:45 i don't quite see how that sentence is insulting apart from implying "Loser!" Jan 22 10:03:00 Loose != lose Jan 22 10:03:17 ah :) Jan 22 10:03:27 i think i get your point now ;) Jan 22 10:03:48 it took me a while to get that fixed too Jan 22 10:03:50 hm, beagleboard + maemo stuff on fosdem Jan 22 10:04:00 Stslaptop: ooh Jan 22 10:04:07 That may have been the first one i got fixed... Jan 22 10:04:23 It's also stupid to use "you lose" for a tetris like game Jan 22 10:04:34 heh, true Jan 22 10:04:43 yet another example of a lack of any review Jan 22 10:04:59 "does this make sense?" Jan 22 10:05:02 No! Jan 22 10:06:04 * timelE61i could easily write a blog dedicated to nit linugistic fluns Jan 22 10:06:07 flubs Jan 22 10:06:16 One article every weekday Jan 22 10:06:19 For a year Jan 22 10:06:36 thedailynittranslationswtf.com ;) Jan 22 10:06:40 i'm sure it'll get on planet maemo Jan 22 10:06:40 :P Jan 22 10:07:06 :) Jan 22 10:07:13 :) Jan 22 10:07:24 :) ? Jan 22 10:07:26 not sure how well it'll be for timelE61i's career Jan 22 10:07:32 hey johnx|z :P Jan 22 10:07:33 morning johnx|z Jan 22 10:07:38 hey Jan 22 10:07:43 we're just smiling friendly at you Jan 22 10:07:49 I would only do it after leaving nokia Jan 22 10:07:57 ah :D Jan 22 10:08:02 timelE61i: ah :) Jan 22 10:08:02 I like trying to fix things Jan 22 10:08:13 you're doing a great job imho Jan 22 10:08:19 But if they don't like it, then ... Jan 22 10:08:52 johnx|z: http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-community/2009-January/002946.html , a must read Jan 22 10:09:52 Stslaptop: ok (need to figure out how to use irssi better) Jan 22 10:10:05 Stslaptop: nice Jan 22 10:13:42 * timelE61i sighs Jan 22 10:13:48 This is really bad Jan 22 10:14:17 I read that link and the only part i noticed was "relevant for 3rd parties components" Jan 22 10:14:44 anyone here want to explain to the nonnatives why that's wrong? Jan 22 10:15:45 cant (figure out how to) follow links. whats the title? Jan 22 10:16:07 johnx: oh, it's a response to the commmunity firmware stuff Jan 22 10:16:09 -m Jan 22 10:16:39 timelE61i: we knew it advance there was issues with 3rd party stuff, not-so-much with nokia software Jan 22 10:16:42 it=in Jan 22 10:17:09 sTs: yep, and your wording isn't flawed Jan 22 10:17:23 ah. that's about the response i expected Jan 22 10:17:36 johnx|z: worst part we have to make a big list now :P Jan 22 10:17:58 its not *too* long :) Jan 22 10:17:59 * timelE61i wonders if any nonnatives here can see the difference between the quote and sts's note Jan 22 10:18:06 flash Jan 22 10:18:09 Skype Jan 22 10:18:12 Rhapsody Jan 22 10:18:14 Maps Jan 22 10:18:15 timelE61i: yeah, we've had the discussion about those Jan 22 10:18:52 is there quicktime support? Jan 22 10:18:54 timelE61i: i guess n8x0 users of mer will be interested in those but they're largely uninteresting to me... Jan 22 10:18:59 mpeg Jan 22 10:19:26 mpeg? mplayer is faster anyways :) Jan 22 10:19:26 helix? Jan 22 10:19:44 timeless: only thing on that list that i use is skype, really Jan 22 10:19:55 I'm not sure how mpeg licensing works Jan 22 10:20:18 timeless: the question isn't things that -can- be included by users, but things we -need- to provide as part of a firmware image to make it function Jan 22 10:20:25 many things can be dl'ed off the net Jan 22 10:20:27 my interest: wifi firmware, bt firmware (?), bme Jan 22 10:20:57 hrm Jan 22 10:21:34 Which pieces prevent nokia from letting a random person d/l a random piece of a flash image? Jan 22 10:21:50 probably flash and such Jan 22 10:22:08 timelE61i: but yes, it's always possible to grab pieces from updates repositories.. Jan 22 10:22:08 :P Jan 22 10:22:47 what's possible and what's lawful.... Jan 22 10:22:52 yeah :P Jan 22 10:23:17 Anyway... Do you need anything for camera/fmradio? Jan 22 10:23:48 fmradio i saw a python api for, so that should be trivial to implement an applet for Jan 22 10:23:59 i think camera support is kernel based and open Jan 22 10:25:22 speaking of dates Jan 22 10:25:29 Could someone fix pipermail? Jan 22 10:25:42 * timelE61i can file a bug if necessary Jan 22 10:27:50 johnx|z: i think a prioritized table of things could be nice to make Jan 22 10:28:13 ok, i can make a text file now and add to wiki later Jan 22 10:28:19 timelE61i: Please do so. I need to create a new template for it soon and then I can take that issue at the same time. Jan 22 10:28:28 Agreed. Things like battery charging, and any other low-level drivers/blobs Jan 22 10:28:36 does bt need firmware of any type? Jan 22 10:28:42 johnx: i -think- so on 770 Jan 22 10:28:49 we might as well get 770 in the fold by now Jan 22 10:28:54 timelE61i: Did "you lose" in blocks ever get changed from "you loose" - which was even worse Jan 22 10:28:58 yes. definitely Jan 22 10:30:04 * Jaffa takes the little 'uns to Gym Club Jan 22 10:30:45 guess we should get dsme and its modules just to be complete... Jan 22 10:30:50 jAffa iirc i finally managed to get it fixed Jan 22 10:31:02 i can't remember for when Jan 22 10:31:43 the funny part there... Jan 22 10:32:04 The "text" was painted onto an unlocalized picture Jan 22 10:32:13 So it didn't matter what language you spoke Jan 22 10:32:28 We always insulted your sister in English Jan 22 10:33:09 (?) This system has 226 unsent core files. Send for analysis? Jan 22 10:34:22 hrm, i can't seem to actually *play* maemo blocks Jan 22 10:34:37 * timelE61i taps continue Jan 22 10:34:48 does gps need anything special? what about agps? Jan 22 10:35:06 agps probably needs a service Jan 22 10:35:14 johnx|z: think we can prioritize them as "needed as part of firmware image" "would be useful as part of firmware image" "could be useful to modify packaging, repackage and possible to download if providing MAC address" Jan 22 10:35:27 or something Jan 22 10:35:42 Stslaptop: ok. pretty much how i organized it Jan 22 10:36:01 as in, the extreme example of flash - people can -possibly- download this from a nokia repository (i know this is a pipe dream) Jan 22 10:36:02 timelE61i: i mean anything non-free on the device Jan 22 10:36:12 Can someone run maemo blobks and use "ps" to find out what processes it includes Jan 22 10:37:11 timelE61i: sec Jan 22 10:37:28 i really wonder about updates repository, i mean, why some random password instead of simply providing a negotiating step with EULA and MAC address provide? :P Jan 22 10:37:40 * timelE61i sees 2 maemoblocks_startups and nothing else Jan 22 10:38:05 timelE61i: yeah, that :/ Jan 22 10:38:07 morning all Jan 22 10:38:15 hi Wooly Jan 22 10:38:23 aquatix: try this Jan 22 10:38:30 /usr/bin/maemoblocks_startup /usr/share/maemoblocks/m Jan 22 10:39:03 this may be a silly question, but why when I run af-sb-init.sh inside scratchbox, does the simulated desktop look completely different from my actual n810 desktop Jan 22 10:39:11 Start game; hardware home; tap game; change block speed to 20; Tap continue a dozen times Jan 22 10:39:16 Wooly: yes :) Jan 22 10:39:27 i was just wondering why that was Jan 22 10:39:40 Wooly: depends onwhat you've installed Jan 22 10:39:55 Wooly: on the other hand most of your SDK is open source Jan 22 10:39:57 And on whether your screen res and colordepth are right Jan 22 10:40:02 Wooly: its mostly because of things not included for various reasons Jan 22 10:40:18 which is not something you can say for your average android SDK :P Jan 22 10:40:31 ahh ok :) thanks Jan 22 10:40:58 you can make your device more closely match the sdk by removing packages Jan 22 10:41:16 Or you could transplant them if the sdk is arm Jan 22 10:41:16 timelE61i: "Game not started yet"? Jan 22 10:41:34 the sdk is arm yes Jan 22 10:41:40 did you skip a step? Jan 22 10:41:45 so I could transfer packages from my N810 to my SDK? Jan 22 10:41:50 For me i'm at game paused Jan 22 10:42:08 Wooly: you'd have to "make" such packages Jan 22 10:42:26 timelE61i: well, i had to first start it Jan 22 10:42:29 right. That's maybe something I can do later on Jan 22 10:42:32 cheers :) Jan 22 10:42:45 if it wasn't for the fact h-d will probably be replaced, Nokia should take a long hard look at hildon-theme-liberty Jan 22 10:43:13 as part of SDK Jan 22 10:43:30 the sdk people are fairly reasonable Jan 22 10:43:43 Stslaptop, (or more likely johnx) you want mer to work on various platforms, whats the realistic lower limit for screen resolution (effects which of the phone devices to look towards) Jan 22 10:43:45 talk to them early and often Jan 22 10:43:54 lcuk: not sure Jan 22 10:44:23 320x240 is the (basement) floor Jan 22 10:44:34 lcuk: and the problem is also how many applications will look okay at that resolution :P Jan 22 10:44:56 timelE61i, depends on wha UI elements are required Jan 22 10:44:58 we can probably solve hildon-desktop in one or the other, but, apps are more difficult Jan 22 10:45:04 yeah Jan 22 10:45:12 ipod touch would be nice cheap hardware to get mer onto :) Jan 22 10:45:30 mm, yeah, but their linux support isn't that good yet is it Jan 22 10:46:09 Some day Jan 22 10:46:10 well johnx is already thinking lower than 800*480 res, its just to keep an eye on really Jan 22 10:46:51 ipod touch has really low res Jan 22 10:46:52 Oh, i found my ipod touch Jan 22 10:46:56 only 320x480 :) Jan 22 10:46:59 * lcuk personally wants 1024*768 mer :) Jan 22 10:47:04 lcuk: ooh :) Jan 22 10:47:20 Is that EEE or beagle? Jan 22 10:47:21 lcuk: http://irczilla.net/mer/Screenshot-1.png Jan 22 10:47:21 aquatix, at least as far as liqbase goes, thats not a problem Jan 22 10:47:38 neither, lenovo x41 tabletpc Jan 22 10:47:38 Stslaptop: ha Jan 22 10:48:08 running at 800mhz powersave mode :) Jan 22 10:48:17 oooooh Stslaptop Jan 22 10:48:39 and this is why mer is good :) Jan 22 10:48:56 i would like to get comfortable and relaxed with one single strong sane distro Jan 22 10:49:10 lcuk: thats early x86 btw Jan 22 10:49:16 yeah i know Jan 22 10:49:23 early? Jan 22 10:49:23 ive seen it before, just being nice ;) Jan 22 10:49:31 timelE61i: as in, a hack :P Jan 22 10:49:44 i've had mer on x86 since day one since i work with mer as part of my work Jan 22 10:49:50 * timelE61i grew up w/ a 386sx 33 w/ a turbo button Jan 22 10:50:02 as providing a foundation for pervasive healthcare prototypes Jan 22 10:50:10 (for games that needed 16) Jan 22 10:50:45 Eww, you're trying to profit from the work we do Jan 22 10:50:48 Traitor! Jan 22 10:51:20 timelE61i: research/university work Jan 22 10:51:24 everybody needs motivation Jan 22 10:51:26 timelE61i: ooh, we had a 33MHz 386 too Jan 22 10:51:28 only dx Jan 22 10:51:31 rather fast Jan 22 10:51:38 timelE61i: and the non-healthcare parts will be open source, so Jan 22 10:52:05 timelE61i, dont you profit by being employed by nokia? Jan 22 10:52:25 i consider that recompense for anguish :) Jan 22 10:52:30 heh Jan 22 10:53:15 motivation is important, linux provides a perfect platform for many projects - as long as sts says it remains open then we all win Jan 22 10:54:19 oH, i was only poking fun. Of course it's ok Jan 22 10:54:48 It just seemed like the natural open source response :) Jan 22 10:57:01 oK, i can't download that picture Jan 22 10:57:08 Stuck @40pct Jan 22 10:57:30 Ok now that's great Jan 22 10:57:43 My phone's browser just gave me a dialog: Jan 22 10:58:02 Already downloading [green checkmark] Jan 22 10:58:49 anyone here able to translate that dialog into English? :@ Jan 22 11:00:44 already = already Jan 22 11:00:45 and Jan 22 11:00:49 downloading = downloading Jan 22 11:01:12 :) Jan 22 11:01:28 Already downloading ? Jan 22 11:01:42 And ? Jan 22 11:02:04 And ? Jan 22 11:03:13 just shut up and swallow the message ;) Jan 22 11:03:18 (and try again) Jan 22 11:03:46 well, i think it assumes you know what you just clicked Jan 22 11:04:02 so if you then get "Already downloading", you know Jan 22 11:04:15 maybe the checkmark means it's done already even? Jan 22 11:04:57 nAh Jan 22 11:05:02 I asked it to quit Jan 22 11:05:10 So none of this makes sense :) Jan 22 11:05:45 besides downloading != downloaded Jan 22 11:11:06 timelE61i, you are on a mission regarding translation information messages. have you considered you are just hitting a senility wall :D Jan 22 11:11:50 (i actually think its really important as well, stupid messages rile me as well) Jan 22 11:12:19 it's a very wide wall Jan 22 11:14:04 yeah, its an artform and never going to be perfect Jan 22 11:14:39 i would like to add a translate now button to message boxes :) for users/beta testers to submit translations of any message within an app Jan 22 11:14:44 I'm not asking for perfect Jan 22 11:15:03 (same for other things like bugreports/usability/documentation/examples and stuff but thats another issue) Jan 22 11:15:05 How about something a 3rd grader wouldn't be embarassed by? Jan 22 11:15:53 yeah, but as you said last night, usually because you dont have people from all cultures using the app its translated as realistically as it can be Jan 22 11:16:13 ie. i will write apps and all my messages will be written in _NORTHERN dialect, theres no way people will understand them Jan 22 11:16:25 that's a polite paraphrase Jan 22 11:16:38 :) yes i translated it for you Jan 22 11:28:38 UPS, apparently, figured out they were shipping it to the wrong address. Jan 22 11:28:46 Now, hopefully it makes it here early enough to get on the truck. Jan 22 11:34:03 Say hello to wiki spam. Jan 22 11:34:13 Stslaptop, you're only digging yourself deeper. :D Jan 22 11:36:13 GeneralAntilles: sorry :) the blueprint was in dire need of getting split up Jan 22 11:36:55 Stslaptop, drop the banner on https://wiki.maemo.org/Mer Jan 22 11:37:01 maemo.org is not Nokia Jan 22 11:37:21 GeneralAntilles, Jaffa's design, and what banner? :P Jan 22 11:37:33 About Mer not being a Nokia project. Jan 22 11:37:39 fair enough Jan 22 11:37:42 Nokia stuff is clearly marked on maemo.org Jan 22 11:38:01 hi Jan 22 11:38:06 We shouldn't be marking our own stuff in our own domain. ;) Jan 22 11:38:57 we now have rss reader plugin in wiki if you want to make activity logs in sprints easier, it seems :) Jan 22 11:40:02 Stslaptop, should I add my name to that list? :P Jan 22 11:40:31 "Public relations, Cheerleader" Jan 22 11:41:21 sure, send me an e-mail like it says on Mer/Sprints, and i'll add you :P Jan 22 11:41:29 it's just to keep track of people really Jan 22 11:42:07 Stslaptop, have you got a privacy policy about the use of my email address? Jan 22 11:42:21 lcuk, every spambot he can find. Jan 22 11:42:21 lcuk: "it's not ending up on the public page" Jan 22 11:42:22 :P Jan 22 11:42:34 and GeneralAntilles do you actually have pompoms Jan 22 11:42:34 except if you need a jaiku invite Jan 22 11:42:50 * lcuk has u on jaiku already a Jan 22 11:42:53 yeah Jan 22 11:43:17 GeneralAntilles, awww so liquid@gmail.com will be picked up and spammed? :( Jan 22 11:43:41 i should be very careful not to put liquid@gmail.com on anything public Jan 22 11:44:07 hi lcuk Jan 22 11:44:13 lcuk, nah, but I could source some fairly quickly if need be. :P Jan 22 11:44:18 hiya woglinde Jan 22 11:44:29 Stslaptop, OK, I'm going to justify the documentation part right now. ;) Jan 22 11:45:05 GeneralAntilles, i already get spam in hundreds per day - sometimes i end up with thousands Jan 22 11:45:46 * lcuk once got joe jobbed and watched as 25000 mails came in as someone attempted to send mails to most people at hotmail and got rejected :'( Jan 22 11:55:17 Hello ! Jan 22 11:55:24 hi khertan Jan 22 11:57:10 someone use mnotes here ? Jan 22 11:57:35 Khertan_n810: did you see my post that was directly directed to you? :> Jan 22 11:57:49 which one , Jan 22 11:57:50 ? Jan 22 11:58:01 it s seems not Jan 22 11:58:01 :) Jan 22 11:58:11 damnit, my server is down Jan 22 11:58:16 where to ? Jan 22 11:58:28 sec :) Jan 22 11:58:35 yep Jan 22 11:59:56 http://internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=259164&postcount=39 , but it has an image of http://www.daimi.au.dk/~cvm/mer-homediskfree.png and http://www.daimi.au.dk/~cvm/mer-homediskfree2.png in it ;) Jan 22 12:01:17 nice Jan 22 12:02:16 Hey ! Jan 22 12:02:19 NICE ! Jan 22 12:02:36 python is now available so ! Jan 22 12:02:48 hildon binding too ! Jan 22 12:02:54 thx ... Jan 22 12:02:57 hehe, yes Jan 22 12:03:13 python-gtk2, python-hildon, python-osso, python-conic, python-hildondesktop Jan 22 12:03:25 i ll try to found some time saturday to have a second boot with me on my nit Jan 22 12:03:51 hehe Jan 22 12:04:06 there's a weird bug but i think it has to deal with it not being 800x480 Jan 22 12:04:20 (maybe in hildon desktop) Jan 22 12:05:01 if i said that mnotes dev version sync with google docs are you interested ... or do you really need sync with evernotes ? Jan 22 12:05:31 google docs or evernotes is good Jan 22 12:05:37 evernotes is good because a lot of students use it Jan 22 12:05:53 and if they can use the tablets to add notes or view notes on the go, that would help a lot of people to buy tablets Jan 22 12:05:55 there is no rendering it s text only for the moment until python binding for webkit willbe available Jan 22 12:06:03 *nod* Jan 22 12:06:21 nod ? Jan 22 12:06:58 yeah, that could be difficult Jan 22 12:07:07 for Mer it might be easier as we have all python bindings Jan 22 12:09:45 i look forwebkit as gtkhml2 doesnt permit to edit Jan 22 12:10:09 gtkhtml3 don t have binding and isn t available on nit Jan 22 12:11:19 i don t know any other text widget which can render html and edit it Jan 22 12:12:04 and my try with fckeditor in gtkhtml2 was a failure Jan 22 12:12:06 ew Jan 22 12:12:10 s/ew/re/ Jan 22 12:12:14 to slow to be usefull Jan 22 12:12:17 Jaffa: hah :P Jan 22 12:12:22 Khertan_n810, have you considered something like richtext - ie a bit less complex than full html Jan 22 12:12:26 with import export from/to Jan 22 12:12:52 ew yourself, Jaffa. Jan 22 12:13:01 or are you wanting to do full palm pre type editing/config Jan 22 12:13:07 Jaffa: ew! Jan 22 12:13:11 erm, wb! Jan 22 12:13:19 lol Jan 22 12:14:27 lcuk: yep but the problem is to avoid to break the document layout Jan 22 12:14:39 and rtf of TextView doesn t help Jan 22 12:15:40 how much formatting are you expecting though? fonts colors bold italics etc, or full on super duper formatting with subpixel accuracy Jan 22 12:16:23 and special html features (like tables and stuff) Jan 22 12:17:44 and style sheets Jan 22 12:18:18 and macros Jan 22 12:18:27 maybe embedded flash content Jan 22 12:18:38 and a save as "Microsoft word" format :D Jan 22 12:19:46 ghehe Jan 22 12:19:54 and export to pdf with interactive forms Jan 22 12:20:08 it needs an assistant Jan 22 12:20:35 "it looks like you are touching my screen :: BUY A FRIKKING KEYBOARD" Jan 22 12:20:44 re Jan 22 12:20:51 sorry n810 reboot suddently Jan 22 12:21:28 khertan, has this started since you added pictures to mnotes - its notoriously unstable Jan 22 12:24:24 aquatix, what other features does it need then? Jan 22 12:24:27 mnotes ? unstable ? Jan 22 12:24:31 not possible Jan 22 12:24:52 lcuk: this start before ... Jan 22 12:25:08 and i'm still doesn't understand why Jan 22 12:25:17 very defensive - i can get it doing really weird stuff and it gets confused easily Jan 22 12:25:19 lcuk: hmmm, maybe something with saving in the Cloud or something Jan 22 12:25:28 but as for the camera it locks up often when playing Jan 22 12:25:46 thats not specifically mnotes - the camera at full res crashes every app its used in Jan 22 12:25:50 lcuk: nah, that's because you have liqbase running in the background ;) Jan 22 12:26:07 hm, that's because of the driver or something? Jan 22 12:26:08 liqbase doesnt run inthe background :P Jan 22 12:26:50 yeah aquatix, it seems to consume too much bandwidth over the little bus and stumbles more often than everything Jan 22 12:27:15 aha Jan 22 12:27:17 i thought id got past it myself in liqbase by running at only 8fps, but i managed to lock it enough to say bollocks to it and lowered the res again Jan 22 12:27:22 * aquatix doesn't use it much Jan 22 12:27:32 front-faced camera isn't that useful for me Jan 22 12:27:35 i was using it as a blit test for the new liqbase Jan 22 12:27:47 hm Jan 22 12:27:54 i had various copies of the camera image being stretchblitted all over hte shop Jan 22 12:27:57 someone should manufacture a bluetooth button camera Jan 22 12:27:59 lcuk> you have bugs ? when playing with cam ? Jan 22 12:28:27 i mean with mnotes ? Jan 22 12:28:30 which version ? Jan 22 12:28:38 no khertan i dont have bugs when playiong with the cam, but at its full resolution the entire machine freezes and gets locked up - thats the same using camera or liqbase or mnotes Jan 22 12:28:43 pupnik_: you mean a camera with a small memory which bluetooths its pictures to a main device? Jan 22 12:28:56 ah ! you mean the cam :) Jan 22 12:29:02 (reminds me of the cam you could buy with the old Nokia communicator) Jan 22 12:29:16 yep i see that also that at fullres ... it clearly freeze the device Jan 22 12:29:21 pupnik_, i asked this question to craves1 about his extended sdcard a+ bigger battery cover Jan 22 12:29:46 yeah aquatix Jan 22 12:29:47 this is why i use 320 wide sized resolution Jan 22 12:29:56 Khertan_at_work, drop resolution to 320*200 (maybe have it as option) and see for yourself how much more stable and smooth the machine is Jan 22 12:29:59 pupnik_: there are already cams with wifi to do so even Jan 22 12:30:02 ahhh you already do.. Jan 22 12:30:05 pupnik_: and ones doing bt Jan 22 12:30:06 yep Jan 22 12:30:08 :) Jan 22 12:30:11 then why it still freezes i dunno... Jan 22 12:30:12 where which Jan 22 12:30:33 i got no freeze at 320*200 only at 640*480 Jan 22 12:30:51 pupnik_, the idea i had was to use the usb/serial port actually in the battery compartment to get data in Jan 22 12:30:53 and the preview is smooth Jan 22 12:30:57 320*240 Jan 22 12:31:06 surely :) Jan 22 12:31:15 which question did you ask lcuk ? Jan 22 12:31:26 "can you put a camera in there as well" Jan 22 12:31:37 but you made the mistake before ... i copy a part of your previous comment Jan 22 12:31:46 " Khertan_at_work, drop resolution to 320*200" Jan 22 12:31:59 heh lol :$ Jan 22 12:32:07 héhé Jan 22 12:32:49 Khertan_at_work, how many fps do you run camera in? Jan 22 12:33:19 i ofund 15 to be reasonable - the lower the FPS the better the low light handling and less snowy it is Jan 22 12:33:45 8 fps lets me have kinda smooth images at night in low light Jan 22 12:34:00 25fps is just snow Jan 22 12:34:11 lcuk> at this time at 25fps Jan 22 12:34:19 but i ll lower it to 15 Jan 22 12:34:33 when i ll found how to set it to 15 :) Jan 22 12:34:42 seems reasonable, less overall strain and slightly higher picture quality :) Jan 22 12:34:49 heh, its part of your gstreamer init code Jan 22 12:35:49 yep ... but when i code i don't have the gstreamer doc with me Jan 22 12:36:48 yeah, its one of the params around where you set normal resolution Jan 22 12:37:55 i bet you wouldnt be able to get gstreamer to filter the color layers would you - in liqbase I lower the Chroma channels by half to reduce horrible blinding glaring multicolored snow Jan 22 12:38:03 the gray channel is normally pretty clean Jan 22 12:38:18 hum ... it s a good idea ... Jan 22 12:39:00 wb johnx Jan 22 12:39:05 thanks Jan 22 12:39:12 * johnx|z kills time at work Jan 22 12:40:22 anyway, must dash again Jan 22 12:41:04 johnx, you start skiving as i finish :P Jan 22 12:41:12 heh Jan 22 12:41:37 I'm off the clock :P Jan 22 12:41:54 im on dinner :P Jan 22 12:42:30 I'll be on donuts soon unless someone gives me somethin to do Jan 22 12:42:55 Bagsy oneza Jan 22 12:43:05 I've only got an egg custard Jan 22 12:43:51 I've got a mister donuts next store :D it's a bad habit but I guess it's cheaper than smoking ... Jan 22 12:44:15 Ungh donuts Jan 22 12:44:22 There's a Krispy Kreme just up the street. Jan 22 12:44:33 Eugh Jan 22 12:44:47 Don't talk about Donuts making me hungry Jan 22 12:44:59 GeneralAntilles: these are a little different than crispy creme...i dunno. crispy cream is a little too heavy for me :/ Jan 22 12:45:06 Hehe Jan 22 12:45:07 We had one open next to the office and now they're the traditional birthday cakes ppl buy. Most of them far too sugary Jan 22 12:45:08 * johnx|z must be a heretic Jan 22 12:45:12 They are heavy Jan 22 12:45:14 But damn good. Jan 22 12:46:48 heh...there are a couple here too. Last time I saw one there was a line all the way around the corner of thebuilding O_o Jan 22 12:47:16 I wish I had some bread for french toast. Jan 22 12:47:23 mm, cheese Jan 22 12:47:47 ha! i gave up on finding cheese ... Jan 22 12:48:04 No cheese in Japan? Jan 22 12:48:55 no good cheese. also: insane prices Jan 22 12:49:00 Any proper cheese in America?! Jan 22 12:49:25 johnx|z: not even at McD and burger king? :( Jan 22 12:49:29 The grocery store has a whole section of fine cheese. Jan 22 12:49:34 Jaffa: US cheese makes cheese in Japan look pretty sad Jan 22 12:49:40 I usually just buy extra sharp cheddar, though. Jan 22 12:49:57 what call you french toast ? Jan 22 12:50:12 GeneralAntilles: meh. I have to go up to costco and buy a brick unless i want to spend $10 at an import store for like 2oz Jan 22 12:50:27 Hehe Jan 22 12:50:30 Khertan_at_work: white board, cheese, ham, maybe Jan 22 12:50:37 i ask because at a dinner at the summit at berlin i discover that you call fries : french fries :) Jan 22 12:50:44 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_toast Jan 22 12:50:46 Khertan_at_work: better than "freedom fries" Jan 22 12:50:49 Khertan_at_work: It's called "egg bread" (roughly) in the UK - I think Jan 22 12:50:55 fries isn't .fr but .be Jan 22 12:51:09 Stslaptop: O_o that's french toast in DK? Jan 22 12:51:11 Although Stskeeps os describing a croque monsieur Jan 22 12:51:24 johnx: mm. at least, that's how we call toast in .dk :P Jan 22 12:51:30 and then friedn icely Jan 22 12:51:32 mmm, croque Jan 22 12:51:46 That's definitely a croque monsieur Jan 22 12:51:48 yeah well look at what we call chinese food in the US its no where near chinese Jan 22 12:51:54 yep so a croque monsieur Jan 22 12:51:59 Stslaptop: just egg batter and french bread in the US. maybe some cinamon Jan 22 12:52:24 and syrup! Jan 22 12:52:34 I like a bit of ground sugar, too. Jan 22 12:52:37 Maybe some fresh fruit. Jan 22 12:53:29 GeneralAntilles: bah. i'd kill a man to get to an IHOP... Jan 22 12:53:36 Hehe Jan 22 12:53:43 The next summit should be in Perpignan. Somewhere close to Toulouse, perhaps Jan 22 12:53:45 I'm sad Village Inn is closing Jan 22 12:53:45 http://internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26381 <- oh boy Jan 22 12:53:53 They have great pies. Jan 22 12:54:09 Stslaptop: title? Jan 22 12:54:18 johnx: ubuntu netbook edition Jan 22 12:54:27 on eee, "easy peasy linux" Jan 22 12:54:35 for 800x480 Jan 22 12:55:07 Jaffa : oh no please not at Perpignan Jan 22 12:55:29 * Jaffa uses bits from Ubuntu Netbook Remix on Jaffa Jr's ThinkPad (nice wazd-like task switcher, auto maximising) Jan 22 12:55:53 Khertan_at_work: I'm not a big fan of Paris, though doing the !touristy thing could help Jan 22 12:56:23 not a big fan of paris ... but i hate perpignan Jan 22 12:56:39 and it ll be difficult to have a direct travel Jan 22 12:56:46 BTW, that desktop is rheavy Clutter and really crawls on an unaccelerated ThinkPad Jan 22 12:56:50 so it could be expensive Jan 22 12:56:54 Jaffa: ick :P Jan 22 12:57:02 Khertan_at_work: true. France'd be good tho' Jan 22 12:58:20 jaffa, it crawls on my x41 as well, even at 1.6ghz Jan 22 12:58:27 Khertan_at_work: nice & warm in the south Jan 22 12:58:29 and thats technically got accel Jan 22 12:58:31 i prefer seeing a summit at Grenoble, or Lyon, Strasbourg Jan 22 12:58:42 the netherlands wouldn't be bad either Jan 22 12:59:04 jaffa> nice ... not really ... warn ... or raining ... i prefer the north of france ... Jan 22 12:59:10 as i prefer cold :) Jan 22 12:59:21 finland Jan 22 12:59:38 Reims could be great too Jan 22 12:59:41 * Jaffa ponders the clutter no-animation mode; could allow API-using apps from Fremantle in Mer (and that launcher on a "low" ThinkPad) Jan 22 12:59:56 But I want to see all of your get your laptops confiscated by the TSA. :( Jan 22 13:00:07 finland could be a good choice too Jan 22 13:00:09 the TSA ? Jan 22 13:00:21 GeneralAntilles: did they introduce habeas corpus back again yet btw? Jan 22 13:00:23 http://www.tsa.gov/ Jan 22 13:00:41 Stslaptop, pff. Jan 22 13:00:45 Khertan_at_work: I grew up in Manchester - anywhere which is warm or has cool storms feels like holiday :) Jan 22 13:01:12 jaffa, even the base examples (the spinning OH hands) did not work smoothly - that was 6 textures being scaled and rotated Jan 22 13:01:18 * Jaffa loved being able to watch the inauguration. Paternity leave's great Jan 22 13:01:31 lcuk: you reckon the code's just crap? Jan 22 13:01:47 ithe problem is, i dont see how - it goes to lower level ogl Jan 22 13:01:58 Hmm Jan 22 13:01:58 Jaffa> u grew up in the south of the France, anywhere warm remember me that i hate when temp is more than 20°C Jan 22 13:02:17 brb changing over to my linux partition Jan 22 13:02:20 Khertan_at_work: heh :) Jan 22 13:02:42 * GeneralAntilles would prefer warm. Jan 22 13:02:48 jaffa, it was shockingly poor performance wise and certianly not what i expected to see Jan 22 13:03:10 especially considering its retained model rendering Jan 22 13:03:30 or so i recall Jan 22 13:03:34 (might be wrong) Jan 22 13:04:48 im sure that it scales quite well - ie it wont get much worse as you add more stuff) but i expected a ground level core simple usage to be flawless at least on desktop/laptop and not embedded system Jan 22 13:05:48 tigert's been quiet recently. Should get his thoughts on wazd's mer mockups Jan 22 13:06:20 whats tigert working on? Jan 22 13:06:35 lcuk: made for example the plankton theme Jan 22 13:06:49 i see now, google helps Jan 22 13:11:02 ok stupid question is something wrong with my Linux install or something becuase some times I wont be touching the mouse or keyboard and computer will change the active desktop Jan 22 13:11:16 Obviously still at Nokia, according to that IP Jan 22 13:11:37 Jaffa, he spoke the other day, so not that quiet :) Jan 22 13:12:34 * lcuk doesnt see him in chan Jan 22 13:15:30 hello Jan 22 13:15:35 hi Jaffa Jan 22 13:16:20 lcuk: his leaving prompted my statement Jan 22 13:16:24 hi thopiekar Jan 22 13:17:07 * Jaffa goes fireplace shopping and a (hopefully brief) visit to Ikea Jan 22 13:18:20 i just saw Jan 22 13:18:36 lol jaffa, the missus never sees ikea visit as brief Jan 22 13:31:42 Hey trying to install maemo sdk but I"m getting this error Scratchbox login executable... no Jan 22 13:31:42 E: Scratchbox login found but not executable by user. Jan 22 13:54:52 does maemo provide expander images I can use in my treeview? diablo doesn't show the triangles that gtk displays within gnome; now I need a replacement for this Jan 22 13:59:54 nice split Jan 22 14:23:02 cool, QT Designer crashed on me Jan 22 14:23:11 which version? Jan 22 14:23:56 20080806 snapshot Jan 22 14:26:38 hm Jan 22 14:26:50 is this before after the rewrite Jan 22 14:26:55 can remeber excatly Jan 22 14:26:57 cannt Jan 22 14:28:41 I was connecting a signal :) Jan 22 14:28:48 (Linux) Jan 22 14:29:51 oh, nice, another pre-alpha SDK coming up Jan 22 14:30:21 oh, swift should be reachable Jan 22 14:30:26 if i could get onto the intranet Jan 22 14:31:49 when you get an update once a week, it's about normal ;-) Jan 22 14:38:20 * timeless sings a good manager who can find (to the tune of Eshet Chayil) Jan 22 14:43:42 Stslaptop, I don't get back credit for my previous participation, eh? ;) :P Jan 22 14:45:10 GeneralAntilles: Sorry, no MER karma implemented yet ;) Jan 22 14:45:51 woo! new SDK! Jan 22 14:46:33 GeneralAntilles, no credit. you gotta pay full price just like all the rest :P Jan 22 14:46:38 Medical Education Resources? :P Jan 22 14:46:45 Mars Exploration Rover? Jan 22 14:46:52 .. Jan 22 14:46:54 new SDK now? Jan 22 14:47:05 Hmm the latter one can also be a great mascot :) Jan 22 14:47:07 Stslaptop, huh? nah, was just reacting to you :P Jan 22 14:47:17 johnx: ah, good, i was going into a heart attack Jan 22 14:47:19 Mer on MER Jan 22 14:47:37 X-Fade, one of the Mars rovers at the bottom of the ocean would make a nice background... Jan 22 14:47:46 GeneralAntilles, mer on MER for MER? Jan 22 14:47:51 GeneralAntilles: the mars rovers sure are sturdy. Jan 22 14:47:53 johnx: ===> wazd :) Jan 22 14:48:18 X-Fade, we've figured out your dirty little secret. Jan 22 14:48:21 Stslaptop, what kind of screen res do they have? (sorry about the heart attack! O_o) Jan 22 14:48:22 X-Fade == wazd Jan 22 14:48:30 johnx: not sure Jan 22 14:48:37 johnx, I'm more worried about the 68k. :P Jan 22 14:48:57 I wish I was that good in design.... Jan 22 14:49:08 * Myrtti considers fiddling around with the wiki Jan 22 14:49:10 GeneralAntilles, debian runs on it... Jan 22 14:50:02 Idea: Would it make sense to have a community run application store? Jan 22 14:50:04 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAD6000 Jan 22 14:50:07 Guess it's not 68k Jan 22 14:50:10 That's the Space Shuttle Jan 22 14:50:11 X-Fade: i have thought about it occasionally Jan 22 14:50:36 but payment gateways might be difficult :) Jan 22 14:50:38 is there a Meta namespace in the wiki for discussion about the usage of it and possible problems? Jan 22 14:50:47 Handling money is going to be unfun. Jan 22 14:50:48 Technical and organisational difficulties aside, would it make sense. Jan 22 14:50:55 ugh, payment stuff would be a nightmare Jan 22 14:50:56 like in Wikipedia there's Wikipedia:Common problems etc. Jan 22 14:51:07 https://wiki.maemo.org/Meta:Anonymous_editing Jan 22 14:51:09 Was the only one. Jan 22 14:51:34 johnx: i was thinking paypal Jan 22 14:51:45 Do you think people are prepared to pay for applications on the tablets? Jan 22 14:51:49 I was just thinking that if I make a template warning about the possible formatting problems of the pages imported from html, I don't want that to get too cluttered Jan 22 14:52:08 As Linux means free (no cost) to most people ;) Jan 22 14:52:20 X-Fade, I think it depends a lot on the applications. Jan 22 14:52:23 so if I add a link to [[Meta:Problems of the wiki pages imported from html generated by foobar]] or whatever... Jan 22 14:52:25 X-Fade, maybe a thin class of app. I could see paying for games Jan 22 14:52:29 There are a lot of tablet, users, too. Jan 22 14:52:40 Most of them aren't Linux savvy individuals. Jan 22 14:52:45 and are used to paying for stuff. Jan 22 14:52:53 It can draw in developers who make decent apps, if they can create some kind of revenue? Jan 22 14:52:54 and there will be some commercial games for the pandora (honestly!) Jan 22 14:52:59 hehe Jan 22 14:53:05 what you count as commercial? Jan 22 14:53:06 hehe Jan 22 14:53:12 shareware is technically commercial Jan 22 14:53:19 glass, closed source, costs money Jan 22 14:53:20 X-Fade, I think it has potential Jan 22 14:53:21 X-Fade: there was no promise of everything being free as in beer when people got the tablets :P Jan 22 14:53:31 But, honestly, I think it's something that Nokia's better equipped to implement. Jan 22 14:53:31 am I making any sense? Jan 22 14:53:40 GeneralAntilles++ Jan 22 14:53:42 Myrtti, it sounds fine to me. Jan 22 14:53:44 Stslaptop: No, but general public assumes it? Jan 22 14:54:06 X-Fade: which is why it is difficult to make money on OSS and such :P Jan 22 14:54:09 Myrtti, I'm unfamiliar with some of the higher-level issues of wiki management, so you're almost certainly the most qualified person to decide in the room. ;) Jan 22 14:54:18 of course, I'd still have to ask more people about their opinion, but that's how I'd do it with wikipedia Jan 22 14:54:21 X-Fade, they do...but PDAs are a different environment than desktop linux. Lots of people coming from other systems assume lots of things that don't line up with reality :) Jan 22 14:54:28 I think it is a topic we need to discuss. What if the next tablet sells 10M units or.. Jan 22 14:54:41 At some point your potential market is there.. Jan 22 14:55:01 X-Fade, I could see us pushing something with Nokia. Jan 22 14:55:11 and maybe if it didn't get any traction, THEN setting out on our own. Jan 22 14:55:23 But I don't think we have the resources to handle it ourselves. Jan 22 14:55:37 GeneralAntilles: Or we can preempt it, by creating something ourselves. Jan 22 14:55:45 Or at least designing ourselves.. Jan 22 14:55:52 Nokia's the one that's gonna be able to attract commercial interests. Jan 22 14:56:30 Let's say we can get organized,the payment setup and have resources. Jan 22 14:56:32 Handling money is something that puts me on edge. Jan 22 14:56:56 I want to find out the benefits first, not looking at the problems at the moment ;) Jan 22 14:57:09 I'd have to get paid to risk handling money... Jan 22 14:57:21 Benefits for our community, our platform. Jan 22 14:57:23 benefit: gaps get filled, more serious games show up, Jan 22 14:58:19 I'd also love to see a bounty system as long as we're going to the trouble of handling money Jan 22 14:58:25 More developers Jan 22 14:58:30 More applications Jan 22 14:58:37 Perhaps better applications Jan 22 14:58:59 I think that if people saw real bounties they actually had some hope of collecting on (not loose forum promises) they might be motivated Jan 22 14:59:20 and Nokia could sponsor bounties without putting their legal ass on the line Jan 22 14:59:31 as could community members Jan 22 14:59:50 Let's say there is a maemo.org legal entity, who can deal with the money and distribute it correctly. Jan 22 15:00:17 How would we deliver the goods to the user? Jan 22 15:00:46 very good question. .deb with a serial key needed? Jan 22 15:01:07 Does such a thing exist? Jan 22 15:01:17 johnx: We have no security framework in the platform. Jan 22 15:01:21 GeneralAntilles, not on install :P on run Jan 22 15:01:38 Ah Jan 22 15:01:42 So one can copy the binary as much as one wants.. Jan 22 15:01:56 And all other options lead to DRM ;) Jan 22 15:02:19 and I only ever saw one piece of DRM I didn't hate: Steam Jan 22 15:03:11 It would take a lot to get that accepted by the community, I guess. Jan 22 15:03:29 Steam? probably lots of steam users already Jan 22 15:03:39 they already have to be online (more or less) to install apps Jan 22 15:03:49 But on the other hand, we see wayfinder struggeling with security too. They lock to mac address etc.. Jan 22 15:04:02 Not really a great solution.. Jan 22 15:04:35 I guess the question is "If people are developing for money, on average how much confidence do they need that people aren't just pirating their apps?" Jan 22 15:04:53 There's a balance to be struck between "no piracy" and "convenience" Jan 22 15:04:58 johnx: Very true. Jan 22 15:05:40 The guys at Valve are so far the only ones who seem to "have it right" IMNSHO Jan 22 15:05:49 Part of that can be solved by reasonal pricing.. $1 for a simple app for example. Jan 22 15:06:12 It is probably easier for most people to buy it at that point than to pirate it.. Jan 22 15:06:56 yeah. The other thing is that if the pirated version is more flexible than the pay version it doesn't help things Jan 22 15:07:08 (ex: ebooks, drm'ed music, software tied to one machine) Jan 22 15:07:53 lo comrads) Jan 22 15:07:54 Yes, but all 'locking down' will impose such problems.. Jan 22 15:09:04 honestly, I'm not getting money from Valve, but if we're really planning to do this from the ground up we'd be hard pressed to find a better role-model than steam... Jan 22 15:09:08 wazd_n800, hey :) Jan 22 15:09:32 * Myrtti yawns Jan 22 15:09:48 johnx: Well even steam has online activation etc, right? Jan 22 15:10:07 yeah, once, when you purchase the app Jan 22 15:10:15 you need to purchase online anyways, sooo Jan 22 15:10:31 johnx: So it locks to a certain device too? Jan 22 15:10:36 X-Fade, no Jan 22 15:10:39 Steam is very nice thing if everything is done legaly) Jan 22 15:10:41 locks to a certain account Jan 22 15:11:01 Ah, well that can be a solution too. Jan 22 15:11:23 But things like that need frameworks inside the device ;) Jan 22 15:11:24 X-Fade, so let's say I drop by your place for a LAN party, sit down at your spare desktop and pull down data files for HL2 and CS :) Jan 22 15:12:00 of course whenever you're downloading to a new machine it needs to authenticate Jan 22 15:12:30 it also wants to authenticate once every couple weeks (but this is a value that can be tweaked if we're reimplementing) Jan 22 15:13:06 Well, implementing nothing right now ;) Jan 22 15:13:15 But want to consider the whole picture.. Jan 22 15:13:21 right :) Jan 22 15:13:59 but I mean "If we decide to use DRM, someone will have to implement it somehow, so we might as well do it right." :) Jan 22 15:14:28 It would be a pretty enormous endeavor :) Jan 22 15:14:42 well, yes Jan 22 15:15:03 I've realized that Apple's App Store is a ripped off X-Box Live) Jan 22 15:15:13 which was my other point about "would making it really secure vastly improve the number of people willing to use it?" Jan 22 15:15:14 lol Jan 22 15:15:32 I'd be interested to talk to the people who might be willing to sell. Jan 22 15:15:45 agreed Jan 22 15:15:59 possibly questionaires, polls, the whole 9 yards Jan 22 15:16:07 RST38h might have some input. Jan 22 15:16:40 and for that 'contacting developers' bit we definitely want that coming from someone@maemo.org Jan 22 15:16:46 Are you discussing Mer Store?) Jan 22 15:17:04 But would the benefits outweigh the probems we would face in implementing this.. Jan 22 15:17:26 Even if we do it together with Nokia or another partner.. Jan 22 15:17:48 At this point, I doubt it. Jan 22 15:18:02 Is an App store vital for a platform? Jan 22 15:18:03 errr...maybe? at most I bet you'll see a couple games, a couple emulators and maybe if the planets align a nice PIM or Office suite Jan 22 15:18:07 We don't have the volume or hype to generate the interest Apple does. Jan 22 15:18:18 and I don't think the existing interest in the community is large enough. Jan 22 15:18:31 GeneralAntilles: That why I said, lets say the next tablet sells 25M units ;) Jan 22 15:18:37 X-Fade, for some platforms, I'd say yes. Different devs, develop for different platforms for different reasons Jan 22 15:18:40 We need to think ahead. Jan 22 15:18:44 X-Fade, hey, you made it bigger. :P Jan 22 15:18:53 * GeneralAntilles is almost out of Juicy Fruit. :( Jan 22 15:19:01 Well any fictional big number will do for now :) Jan 22 15:19:21 Well, push it to -community. Jan 22 15:19:30 See what Peter, Quim and Jussi have to say about it. Jan 22 15:19:33 hmm, we should talk to hancom. :) Jan 22 15:19:38 If you look at the Nokia phone sales, they laugh at iphone numbers for example. Jan 22 15:20:00 Is there a Symbian store? Jan 22 15:20:00 It can happen with these tablets too. Jan 22 15:20:05 You never know ;) Jan 22 15:20:26 I'm thinking we'll magically see more commercial devs with Qt Jan 22 15:20:30 I just have that feeling Jan 22 15:20:37 x-fade: not fair to compair 1 device and zillion) Jan 22 15:20:41 but the *bounty* idea, I really like Jan 22 15:20:47 is this subsidised development for functionality or user apps? Jan 22 15:20:59 The Qt ecosystem between S60 and Harmattan should be veeery interesting. Jan 22 15:21:15 wazd_n800: No, but I mean.. we need to think big ;) Jan 22 15:21:35 lcuk, no the bounty system is the one where we put money out on your head. :P Jan 22 15:21:38 the funniest thing bout app store is that there is 0.1% of really useful apps Jan 22 15:21:41 And we need to prepare for growth and set out own goals.. Jan 22 15:21:47 Ha Jan 22 15:21:48 lcuk, if I had my ways it would be bounties for pretty much anything as long as it passes basic sanity checks Jan 22 15:21:57 We're gonna get a bunch of lighters and beer pong games. Jan 22 15:22:16 GeneralAntilles: Well, if a developer can earn a living that way.. Jan 22 15:22:35 GeneralAntilles, lots of commercial devs are happier with Qt than GTK. even without serious numbers there was a surprising commercial interest in the zaurus Jan 22 15:22:37 That would mean that we would get really cool applications too. Jan 22 15:22:40 given a good enough framework to allow semi developers to create user widgets that can be sold cheaply would be perfect Jan 22 15:22:48 and 500 sudoku's) Jan 22 15:22:50 did you see the iphone rifle scope which buzzes for a head shot..that is cool Jan 22 15:24:13 what would be nice would be to allow those same users to take those same widgets (or recompiles thereof) and use them on desktop as well Jan 22 15:24:27 Even if those apps are silly. I see them installed on a lot of devices around me. So there is a market for them. Jan 22 15:24:47 silly apps == a good sane infrastructure and framework Jan 22 15:24:56 Question is: Do we want to facilitate that market? Jan 22 15:25:21 Why do you want to involve money into open-source world?) Jan 22 15:25:22 oh yesssssssss i want quick simple weekend projects produced at a frightening rate Jan 22 15:25:34 wazd_n800: Do you eat? Jan 22 15:25:45 wazd, if the customer sees value they will pay Jan 22 15:25:50 wazd_n800: People need money, even if the develop oss software.. Jan 22 15:25:54 wazd_n800, open source is all about subverting money into getting better software for everyone :) Jan 22 15:25:56 *they.. Jan 22 15:25:58 open source isnt part of the equation cos they dont understand the language anyway Jan 22 15:26:31 it doesnt actually matter to most users and those which are interested can use the source to make their own media player/soduku Jan 22 15:26:31 And who says that you can't sell your opensource application? :) Jan 22 15:26:39 x-fade: I have a work (regulary) Jan 22 15:26:40 open source is about re-arranging priorities until 'enlightened self interest' lines up with 'freely available software' Jan 22 15:26:48 Sell it and get free sourcecode with it.. Jan 22 15:27:05 ...or .... bounties! Jan 22 15:27:16 money = piracy Jan 22 15:27:16 * johnx should probably shaddup about that :) Jan 22 15:27:25 If people can earn money with something, they might be able to invest more time in developing. Jan 22 15:27:27 it's senseless Jan 22 15:27:32 bounties should come from elsewhere, not the consumer, to build the framework to allow the weekend apps to be built Jan 22 15:27:44 wazd_n800, gotta say: it depends. Jan 22 15:27:57 lcuk, no. money should come from anyone who wants to pay Jan 22 15:28:16 we've seen bounties offered on the forums already, but no one could get organized Jan 22 15:28:17 wazd_n800: Would your really go through the trouble to pirate a $1 app? Jan 22 15:28:20 ok, now we got to my thesis that «money is the best inspiration» Jan 22 15:28:41 johnx, agreed but user of the apple store would never have clicked on "improve the api of the textbox library" (unless it was for copy paste ;)) Jan 22 15:28:44 wazd_n800, luckily, we don't need to choose one inspiration. Jan 22 15:28:54 that's what I'm telling to all linux fans) Jan 22 15:29:44 but with money in list you don't need others) Jan 22 15:30:11 wazd_n800, we want all kinds of developers. there is room for open source to coexist with paid apps Jan 22 15:30:36 wazd_n800: Well we have the option to do nothing. But will that grow our platform in the long run? Attract a lot of people? Jan 22 15:30:48 wazd, as an artist you have your drawings and layouts, if a customer said ill pay you 5 for a layout. would you accept the money or not? Jan 22 15:30:48 lcuk, exactly my point! what if there was a bounty up for "let ipod/iphone apps share data with each other on a non-jailbroken phone" on some respected iphone forum? Jan 22 15:31:37 johnx: why would I give some app for free if I can sell it for a buck? Jan 22 15:31:44 johnx yeah but iphone core dev is *HARD* its not like having everything in front, its as hard as linux you need to KNOW the core stuff, not just the simple cartoon api Jan 22 15:32:01 lcuk, that's not my point... Jan 22 15:32:28 wazd_n800, I don't know. why are you doing art for mer instead of charging us? why are you doing icons for RST38h's closed source emus? Jan 22 15:33:01 wazd_n800: You don't have to charge money ;) You can also get satisfaction from being the most popular app or getting great response? Jan 22 15:33:14 I have princips. If a work is "no big deal" - I Jan 22 15:33:14 johnx, i agree its not the point, but you have to make sure you dont break the ecosystem, its gonna be hard for someone who isnt the core framework visionary to actually modify it in the way you suggest Jan 22 15:33:20 it would take serious amounts of cash Jan 22 15:33:21 ont accept it Jan 22 15:33:22 people need money to buy stuff like pandoras and usch Jan 22 15:33:25 and time and planning Jan 22 15:33:28 fuck Jan 22 15:33:39 I have princips. If a work is "no big deal" - I wont accept iit Jan 22 15:33:57 wazd_n800, do you think some other people feel the same way? Jan 22 15:34:24 bbl again anyway Jan 22 15:34:27 lcuk, we can have people review bounties before they're thrown into the wild... Jan 22 15:34:28 and if a work was really tough - I wont give it for free Jan 22 15:34:49 if a work is something that "anyone" could do, it's more likely someone will do it for free Jan 22 15:35:10 * StsN800 ponders what he stumbled into Jan 22 15:35:28 if work is both fun and profitable.. thats most motivating for anyone Jan 22 15:37:25 I think the big thing that affects whether people try to charge for apps is the 'tone' set by the community. DOS, and later, Windows has traditionally been the haven of Shareware. When people start using it they see Shareware all around, and when they start developing the first thing on their mind is "This is the way things work. Why should I give away my code for free when no one else is?" Jan 22 15:38:06 I'm making icons for FMS emus cause I like them) I do stuff for Mer cause I like the idea. But. I'f I'll make some app the would be popular - I'd better sell it for a buck than giveaway it for free Jan 22 15:39:08 wazd_n800, would you write that app if you thought you could get paid for it? Would an app store motivate you to produce more code/art/whatever for the Nokia tablets? Jan 22 15:39:17 wazd_n800: Well, in theory one can already do that now? Jan 22 15:39:39 * johnx 's apartment is cold O_o Jan 22 15:40:01 cause 1 buck is nothing for single person. But if Titan, for example would cost 1 buck then I'd have 6k bucks already) Jan 22 15:40:27 whats titan? Jan 22 15:40:36 wazd_n800, if there was an app store, would you have charged for titan? Jan 22 15:40:40 donations should probably also be mentioned Jan 22 15:40:42 x-fade: it's too difficult right now Jan 22 15:41:06 10-20 dollar donations does run up Jan 22 15:41:08 johnx: maybe Jan 22 15:41:12 wazd_n800: Well, let's say you make it paypal donationware and you make a custom background for every donation. Jan 22 15:41:25 ah a theme Jan 22 15:41:41 johnx: but I won't make it any faster for example Jan 22 15:41:59 X-Fade, people getting mentioned at theme page helps too Jan 22 15:42:17 for donating Jan 22 15:42:20 wazd_n800, I don't think there's anything wrong with having some things cost money, especially if they aren't part of the core system Jan 22 15:42:24 StsN800: Yes, there are all kinds of possible ways to get appreciation.. Jan 22 15:43:18 But it would be up to the developer to charge or give if for free. It would only be an option.. Jan 22 15:44:42 johnx: right now paying for an app is too difficult. But if we would have some centralized web based system, like ebay for example, then it would work Jan 22 15:44:49 I personally think that attracting big developers to the platform will benefit the community as a whole. Jan 22 15:45:14 wazd_n800, I couldn't tell earlier if you like the idea of an app store or hate it :P Jan 22 15:45:22 money is not an attraction for big devs Jan 22 15:45:52 johnx: apple's store - total crap Jan 22 15:46:10 wazd_n800, how would you do it better? Jan 22 15:46:44 johnx: I have to install itunes and slooooowly browse thru it just to check what apps are already done Jan 22 15:47:29 johnx: good example of store is an e-bay. but without auction Jan 22 15:48:04 web based, with centralized pay system (paypal for example) Jan 22 15:48:21 and without people trying to sell their virginity or their liver... Jan 22 15:48:47 Minimal moderation for hazardous software Jan 22 15:48:52 wazd_n800: Well, sure that would be the idea. Have a web app and/or an application on the device. Jan 22 15:49:24 h-a-m, obviously. Jan 22 15:49:29 Web is clunky and slow. Jan 22 15:49:45 GeneralAntilles, both. H-A-M is clunky and slow in a different way... Jan 22 15:49:53 nope, web only Jan 22 15:50:00 johnx, but we can make it not be clunky and slow Jan 22 15:50:04 GeneralAntilles: Let's not get hung up on slow etc ;) Jan 22 15:50:05 Web we're sort of stuck with. Jan 22 15:50:12 i wan't to access it from any os and device Jan 22 15:50:16 Anyway, both is fine. Jan 22 15:50:18 GeneralAntilles, that's an interesting claim. I can build a moon rocket Jan 22 15:50:19 That's how it is now. Jan 22 15:50:28 * GeneralAntilles sighs. Jan 22 15:50:49 GeneralAntilles, honestly, sometimes I'm not sure if H-A-M is saveable... Jan 22 15:50:57 any OS orientation will suck Jan 22 15:50:57 Even if we could get payment etc implemented in HAM, there would still need to be done a lot more.. Jan 22 15:51:22 wazd_n800, how would you handle DRM if it was your choice? Jan 22 15:51:37 app store should be web based for 10000% Jan 22 15:51:48 johnx, we have a willing fulltime developer and lots of talented people. Jan 22 15:52:08 Honestly, I don't see the big issue. Jan 22 15:52:13 It works just fine for me as-is. Jan 22 15:52:22 johnx: I'd make a virus sceme Jan 22 15:52:38 wazd_n800, huh? Jan 22 15:52:51 GeneralAntilles, if you say so. I'll believe it when I see it. Jan 22 15:52:57 you can copy app wherever you want and it would work there for 2 days for example Jan 22 15:53:04 I can't say anything these days without running into that. <_< Jan 22 15:53:21 wazd_n800, the technical details of that are somewhat tricky for things like themes :) Jan 22 15:54:48 after 2 days user would be ready to bu it or leave it Jan 22 15:54:50 I'm not a specialist in technical details as you know) Jan 22 15:55:34 but I find this system pretty fair Jan 22 15:55:43 wazd_n800, well, given that we don't have an infinite (or even microsoft amount) of programmers the technicalities may define the solution possible Jan 22 15:55:52 Looking at garage, which version of the cx3110x driver should I mess with for mer and the 770? Jan 22 15:55:56 and demoversions ofcourse Jan 22 15:55:57 i think i have a proposal for right click support Jan 22 15:56:37 why not use some key as a modifier? for ex, 'menu' + click = right click Jan 22 15:56:58 r2d2rogers, hmm, let me see if I can figure it out Jan 22 15:57:01 A solution that's been proposed often. Jan 22 15:57:06 Why's wrong with tap'n'hold? Jan 22 15:57:13 hehe Jan 22 15:57:21 slonopotamus, some people have done that in the past. if it works for you then go for it :) Jan 22 15:57:29 johnx: https://garage.maemo.org/frs/?group_id=12&release_id=1012 Jan 22 15:57:42 every apps has to be hacked in order to support tap-and-hold Jan 22 15:57:57 johnx, have any links? Jan 22 15:58:15 well, I know they do that for macs running linux Jan 22 15:58:25 Anyway, I'll see if I can write a nice controversial mail to -community soon, to get the discussion started. Jan 22 15:58:40 r2d2rogers, dunno if this applies to you, but at least for N800, newer cx3110x driver is here: http://repository.maemo.org/pool/diablo/free/c/cx3110x-module-src/ Jan 22 15:58:49 slonopotamus, also, there is another solution that can be done at the toolkit and I am confused why that's not used :/ Jan 22 15:58:49 johnx, well macos does this ;) Jan 22 15:58:50 We should be able to get more response than some of the -users discussions :D Jan 22 15:59:03 johnx, what solution? Jan 22 15:59:05 qwerty12: thanks for the link Jan 22 15:59:21 slonopotamus, so does ubuntu on a macbook if you set it up. I don't remember the source. been years since I had a mac Jan 22 15:59:43 slonopotamus, aaah, the other one...it's called gtk-stylus Jan 22 16:00:09 johnx, i read there are trroubles with it Jan 22 16:00:24 the only downside is it doesn't draw a spinny circle why you hold the stylus. other than that it works well Jan 22 16:00:30 johnx, what if i really want a long left click? Jan 22 16:00:31 used it for a long time on zaurus/gpe Jan 22 16:00:41 I never found an app that needed that Jan 22 16:00:44 slonopotamus: You can also use presure data. "Press hard for right mouse click" :) Jan 22 16:00:52 i hate tap and hold wit ha passion, i cannot ever use it properly Jan 22 16:00:58 painting apps? Jan 22 16:00:59 X-Fade, cause that works sooo reliably already :P Jan 22 16:01:05 lcuk, that's because Nokia broke it in Chinook. Jan 22 16:01:08 johnx: Yeah :) Jan 22 16:01:14 double tap would be better if the system would respond in time Jan 22 16:01:23 lcuk, I think the solution is that apps shouldn't require right clicks :) Jan 22 16:01:28 tap-n-hold is unusable when walking Jan 22 16:01:36 GeneralAntilles, even in 2007 - i hate keeping still Jan 22 16:01:38 slonopotamus, use your thumb :) Jan 22 16:01:42 johnx, that's OS X's solution. Jan 22 16:01:59 multitouch :) Jan 22 16:02:00 johnx, im hoping to use thumbs in corners for other things ;) Jan 22 16:02:05 thumb is unusable in microb L) Jan 22 16:02:10 but thats not the same :P Jan 22 16:02:16 map one finger to right-click Jan 22 16:02:18 :) X-Fade Jan 22 16:02:18 GeneralAntilles, well there's command click and long-click. they do the same, right? Jan 22 16:02:20 finger in left bottom corner and other finger touches where you want.. Jan 22 16:02:28 :D Jan 22 16:02:31 do you get enough data to tell what finger it is? Jan 22 16:02:43 X-Fade, i havent released it yet :P Jan 22 16:02:44 n8x0 doesn't have multitouch Jan 22 16:02:48 luke-jr: Nokia has pattents to sense fingers on the back of a device. Jan 22 16:02:53 slonopotamus, BULLSHIT Jan 22 16:03:01 ooops - caps Jan 22 16:03:03 lol Jan 22 16:03:05 X-Fade: I don't mean that Jan 22 16:03:11 I mean use a pinky for right-click Jan 22 16:03:14 So you can also use that as a modifier. Jan 22 16:03:30 or the back of the stylus Jan 22 16:03:31 Yeah, that patent describes recognizing different fingers. Jan 22 16:03:52 X-Fade, im gonna use the multitouch for SHIFT key :) Jan 22 16:03:58 r2d2rogers, if you get symbol errors when compiling, apply http://pastebin.com/d7d5370b0 to the source, put umac.ko in the top-level Makefile and edit the Makefile to change /scratchbox/users/faheem/... to your current kernel source Jan 22 16:03:59 slonopotamus, http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=dJWvvn_cePM Jan 22 16:04:27 well, I was thinking the tip of your fingerprint Jan 22 16:04:44 X-Fade, you know the limitation with my multitouch needing to keep one finger in same place, people are already used to that with shift keys :) Jan 22 16:04:58 r2d2rogers, when wifi is running on your 770 in maemo what modules are loaded? Jan 22 16:05:06 lcuk: Pretty touch when walking though.. Jan 22 16:05:13 tough ;) Jan 22 16:05:29 X-Fade, not really, you are already holding it with your thumb nearby Jan 22 16:05:33 * r2d2rogers takes notes from qwerty12 Jan 22 16:05:43 johnx: checking, I have my other 770 in maemo now... Jan 22 16:05:50 r2d2rogers, nice :) Jan 22 16:05:57 uh? Jan 22 16:06:03 lcuk: Yeah, so one hand to hold device and other to work the screen. Jan 22 16:06:06 lcuk, o_O Jan 22 16:06:25 how else can yopu walk and type right now? Jan 22 16:06:30 using touchscreen only Jan 22 16:06:40 X-Fade, hold with your left hand, bring your thumb to the bottom left corner of the screen, tap with your right finger/thumb/earlobe Jan 22 16:06:40 and one hand Jan 22 16:06:43 lcuk, it does? Jan 22 16:06:45 lcuk: Hand on the front ;) Jan 22 16:07:06 johnx, they're the same, but practically no application requires right-click. Jan 22 16:07:09 lcuk: A few fingers to hold, a few to touch screen ;) Jan 22 16:07:13 slonopotamus, you see the video, download liqbase to your device and test it yourself :) Jan 22 16:07:15 GeneralAntilles, photoshop Jan 22 16:07:29 I seem to have misplaced my handheld ;( Jan 22 16:07:33 GeneralAntilles, $*&$%ing photoshop drives me up the $*%&ing wall on Mac. Jan 22 16:07:34 johnx, practically. :) Jan 22 16:07:35 X-Fade, well if thats the case you cant generically do Shift + Letter and will have to fallback to old method Jan 22 16:07:39 GeneralAntilles: Gimp ;) Jan 22 16:07:41 but it still "works" Jan 22 16:07:43 how much memory does Maemo need? Jan 22 16:07:45 johnx, get a real mouse. Jan 22 16:07:52 anyway, goin again :P Jan 22 16:08:00 X-Fade: Gimp is fail; port Krita Jan 22 16:08:05 * lcuk wishes he could spend more time doing maemo stuff :'( Jan 22 16:08:25 lcuk: What if you could sell liqbase based apps? :) Jan 22 16:08:29 lcuk, gprs :( send please to slonopotamusorama@gmail.com ? Jan 22 16:08:32 GeneralAntilles, ahaha. nah, I just went back to using gimp on a normal-people computer :) Jan 22 16:08:33 lcuk, video link, i mean Jan 22 16:08:45 johnx, then no bitching for you. Jan 22 16:09:26 X-Fade, why not, im gonna have a nice simple on device IDE and quick on device compilation and a simple graphics library and a nice collection of widgets Jan 22 16:09:26 GeneralAntilles, don't hold up mac os x as a target unless you want me to shoot at it :) I've used it long enough to have a hate list for it (I have one for lots of OSes) Jan 22 16:09:58 johnx: cx3110x umac and ext2 are all I see in lsmod (as I just posted this to identi.ca....) Jan 22 16:10:15 i want to make it easy for myself to create compelling applications on this and other devices and if others want to pay for them thats great Jan 22 16:10:21 but arghhhh im not here Jan 22 16:10:59 btw, why does it seem people use extX on Nokia devices? Jan 22 16:11:01 why not jffs2? Jan 22 16:11:23 luke-jr, jffs2 is for raw NAND. ext2/3 is for block devices Jan 22 16:11:33 oh my :) you're cheating Jan 22 16:11:34 jffs2 isn't meant to be used on SD cards. the internal flash where the os is stored is jffs2 Jan 22 16:11:35 luke-jr: jffs2 has some serious memory requirements too. Jan 22 16:11:41 hm Jan 22 16:12:13 r2d2rogers, interesting. then I think qwerty12 gave you the right link. for some reason I thought there was something different about the wireless driver for the 770 Jan 22 16:12:26 anyhow, is Maemo likely to work on a handheld w/ 64 MB RAM? Jan 22 16:12:27 * slonopotamus reads about multitouch simulation Jan 22 16:12:29 Is it certain that Nokia are using UBIFS in the RX-51? Jan 22 16:12:31 r2d2rogers, did you already test wireless under mer by copying modules into place? Jan 22 16:12:36 i want a way to have right click without hacking each and every app Jan 22 16:12:42 qwerty12, the kernel changelog is fucking filled to the brim with it. Jan 22 16:12:49 slonopotamus, what was the problem with gtk-stylus? Jan 22 16:13:00 luke-jr, n770 has 64mb, if i'm not mistaken Jan 22 16:13:01 GeneralAntilles, hehe, I've never bothered to look at it. Thanks :) Jan 22 16:13:12 johnx: I started to, but didn't get far due to sapwood Jan 22 16:13:23 luke-jr, it's a little tight with the current version of Maemo, but doable Jan 22 16:13:28 hmm Jan 22 16:13:37 johnx, trying to remember, 1 sec Jan 22 16:13:48 luke-jr, totally doable with swap though Jan 22 16:13:53 swap on flash⁈ Jan 22 16:13:58 swap to sd Jan 22 16:14:02 SD is flash Jan 22 16:14:11 and 4GB is $10 Jan 22 16:14:16 plus, my system only has one SD slot Jan 22 16:14:20 and nothing internal Jan 22 16:14:28 if it wears out in 3 years from swapping, then get a new one Jan 22 16:14:55 I guess I need to find it first. Jan 22 16:15:01 but I've looked everywhere :/ Jan 22 16:15:02 as long as you don't plan to run a browser it's possible I think Jan 22 16:15:05 http://www.google.com/search?q=gtk+stylus+right+click Jan 22 16:15:16 first link is m$.com o_O Jan 22 16:16:01 slonopotamus, which one is telling me the problem? the first link? Jan 22 16:16:11 luke-jr, what device are you thinking about running maemo on? Jan 22 16:16:19 johnx, nope, i'm searching... Jan 22 16:16:22 johnx: Zaurus C760 Jan 22 16:16:40 luke-jr, aaaah, very interesting. :) I have it working nicely on a c1000 right here Jan 22 16:17:07 johnx: oh, so it's already been ported? :O Jan 22 16:17:43 luke-jr, I'm part of the Mer project, to get maemo working on top of a (thin) ubuntu base. Jan 22 16:17:55 why Ubuntu? Jan 22 16:18:03 https://wiki.maemo.org/Mer Jan 22 16:18:22 mainly because it's modern, is optimized for armv5te and has upstart Jan 22 16:18:28 Debian doesn't? Jan 22 16:18:42 last time I checked, Ubuntu was x86 only Jan 22 16:18:45 debian is compiled for armv4t and is still based on a normal init Jan 22 16:19:01 luke-jr, nope. it's been multi-platform since it started Jan 22 16:19:12 there arm port is recent though Jan 22 16:19:12 guess they don't ship ARM CDs out free Jan 22 16:19:28 ahaha...nope Jan 22 16:19:37 johnx, http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=315645 explains all the details of tap-n-hold problem Jan 22 16:19:41 but your c760 doesn't have a cd-rom drive either :P Jan 22 16:19:44 ☺ Jan 22 16:19:52 would be nice if they shipped bootable SD cards Jan 22 16:20:24 luke-jr, yes, and I'd like to be the king of Tasmania and where a shiny hat Jan 22 16:20:34 wear* Jan 22 16:20:55 * qwerty12 's throne is under attack by johnx it seems... Jan 22 16:21:21 johnx: so would getting it on my 760 be easy, or am I best waiting for the next Nokia thing? Jan 22 16:21:25 luke-jr, I used up my proper english quota for today :P Jan 22 16:21:42 * luke-jr doesn't have a lot of time, and needs to find the C760 itself, and find a solution for its dead battery Jan 22 16:21:43 luke-jr, if you wait for nokia it will be a long wait :P Jan 22 16:21:48 why? :/ Jan 22 16:21:55 because they'll never support it Jan 22 16:22:05 it's a community project Jan 22 16:22:11 I mean Nokia's next handheld Jan 22 16:22:34 presumably shipping with Maemo Jan 22 16:22:44 aaah, well, then yeah, if you want to wait 6 months the next handheld will prolly be really nice Jan 22 16:23:07 6 mo :o Jan 22 16:23:17 August, now, eh? Jan 22 16:23:21 It'll be sooner than that. Jan 22 16:23:25 I'm so tempted to get the N810 :/ Jan 22 16:23:28 GeneralAntilles, maybe, maybe. :P Jan 22 16:23:43 "I'll believe it when I see it" Jan 22 16:23:49 I'm going to stab the next person that says that. :P Jan 22 16:23:51 the N810 currently costs about 8 hours of work for me Jan 22 16:23:53 luke-jr, then go for it. ~$220 @ buy.com it seems. nice devices Jan 22 16:23:58 I'll believe it when I see it Jan 22 16:24:00 will getting the 760 working take > 8 hrs? Jan 22 16:24:04 ~stab qwerty12 Jan 22 16:24:08 Poor infobot Jan 22 16:24:19 Muhahahaha, no infobot. Hire a better hitman :P Jan 22 16:24:30 GeneralAntilles stabs qwerty12. The attack was not effective Jan 22 16:24:48 I wish jott were about Jan 22 16:24:56 He needs to come back and finish his bot Jan 22 16:24:59 johnx: will getting the C760 working take > 8 hrs? Jan 22 16:25:00 luke-jr, right now, probably less than 8 hours if you follow directions. if you wait until february I hope to have something very simple :) Jan 22 16:25:03 Since we can't count on Infobot Jan 22 16:25:07 oo Jan 22 16:25:22 Feb 1? Jan 22 16:25:24 >_> Jan 22 16:25:32 luke-jr, not giving release days :P Jan 22 16:25:51 luke-jr, it would be faster, if *someone else with a zaurus* wanted to help >_< Jan 22 16:26:04 johnx: well, I can't even find mine yet Jan 22 16:26:12 so it might be until Feb before I have one to test :þ Jan 22 16:26:28 any idea where I might have put it? Jan 22 16:26:36 luke-jr, what ROM are you running on it? have you tried zubuntu? Jan 22 16:26:56 johnx: currently it has a custom OE build Jan 22 16:27:10 and you built that OE build yourself? Jan 22 16:27:15 yeah Jan 22 16:27:24 aaah...way less than 8 hours :P Jan 22 16:27:34 http://luke.dashjr.org/programs/oz-ljr/ Jan 22 16:27:38 back in 2006 Jan 22 16:27:39 :þ Jan 22 16:27:55 "Also, OZ-ljr is maintained live-- new versions every day! =p" :P Jan 22 16:28:16 basically it's just debootstrap ubuntu-minimal, chroot to install some things, use altboot to boot from sd and install mer-specific packages Jan 22 16:30:04 if you're interested though I'll spend time working on the image builder for zaurus so it's just 'untar to sd and boot with altboot' Jan 22 16:30:16 so tell me when you find your c760 :) Jan 22 16:30:18 n8x0 uses tslib, right? Jan 22 16:30:26 slonopotamus, yes Jan 22 16:30:32 johnx: I'll need to figure out altboot too ☺ Jan 22 16:30:54 johnx, then i have something really interesting: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=495487 Jan 22 16:30:56 luke-jr, compile it and install it. done :P Jan 22 16:31:53 Is http://repository.mer.tspre.org/ down? Jan 22 16:31:54 johnx, the lower level of tap-n-hold, the more apps can benefit from it Jan 22 16:32:20 johnx, and there's a patch for tslib Jan 22 16:32:59 what means _all_ x apps Jan 22 16:33:50 slonopotamus, reading Jan 22 16:33:55 i like it Jan 22 16:34:11 slonopotamus, it will possibly break some maemo apps Jan 22 16:35:28 johnx, for ex? Jan 22 16:35:51 johnx, it will repair tons of non-maemo apps :) Jan 22 16:36:10 slonopotamus, the first page you linked about gtk stylus suggests that a tap-hold in maemo generates a different callback than 'right click' Jan 22 16:36:47 anybody knows if its possible to make telephonic calls witha NIT linked to a phone via bluetooth? Jan 22 16:36:52 unless maemo apps are watching for right click as well as the custom 'tap and hold' callback I think it will mean they get nothing Jan 22 16:37:05 right Jan 22 16:37:15 but that never got implemented Jan 22 16:37:26 slonopotamus, huh? what do you mean? Jan 22 16:37:26 johnx, gtk bug has long discussion and they didn't come to conclusion Jan 22 16:37:38 slonopotamus, it's in maemo's gtk, not upstream gtk Jan 22 16:37:41 johnx, that bug is still open Jan 22 16:37:58 how do you think tap-and-hold works now? Jan 22 16:38:12 hmm Jan 22 16:38:25 i meant it wasn't implemented upstream Jan 22 16:38:41 opengeekv2, I think there's a way to make the phone dial, but the voice doesn't get sent to the NIT Jan 22 16:39:00 slonopotamus, well, mer and maemo use maemo-gtk so upstream isn't really related... Jan 22 16:39:35 ok it's what i suspected Jan 22 16:39:44 thanks Jan 22 16:39:54 johnx, ok. i'm not sure i like maemo-gtk, so i'm searching for alternatives Jan 22 16:39:57 opengeekv2, you could use it with a bt headset if your phone supports bt :) Jan 22 16:40:08 slonopotamus, going to make your own distro? :) Jan 22 16:40:39 i have a problem... :S why when i press home button, where said "Home", now says "tana_fi_home" Jan 22 16:41:01 TheFatal, what did you install recently? Jan 22 16:41:13 openbox and sliderotate_support_n810 Jan 22 16:41:25 johnx, nope. going to add some ebuilds to gentoo so it has enough apps to be used on n8x0 Jan 22 16:42:16 slonopotamus, ah, cool then :) Keep in mind that most maemo apps won't work compile with the normal version of gtk Jan 22 16:42:32 <- fails at english tonight Jan 22 16:42:51 johnx, that's their problem :) Jan 22 16:43:18 slonopotamus, it's just a heads up. it bit me in the @$$ so I figured I'd warn you Jan 22 16:44:06 johnx, i dislike this too. going away from upstream doesn't offer any benefits Jan 22 16:44:21 but many troubles :) Jan 22 16:44:25 dislike what? Jan 22 16:44:52 and the thing is, we have many upstreams. the pain comes from trying to mix-and-match different upstreams Jan 22 16:45:57 what your process is - a constant merging with conflicts Jan 22 16:46:15 it's a hardest operation Jan 22 16:46:19 the Jan 22 16:46:35 the hardest would be taking ubuntu's gtk and trying to make it work with maemo apps Jan 22 16:48:20 take gnome foundation's gtk :) Jan 22 16:48:30 same difference :P Jan 22 16:48:51 so how goes gentoo? do you have a complete desktop for it yet? Jan 22 16:50:18 nope, i'm choosing it Jan 22 16:50:37 tried lxde? Jan 22 16:51:11 i don't want to loose many already present ebuilds by using maemo gtk Jan 22 16:51:23 lxde is based on normal gtk Jan 22 16:51:31 very lightweight. even lighter than xfce Jan 22 16:51:33 good Jan 22 16:52:09 but if i use vanilla gtk, i need right mouse support. Jan 22 16:52:14 we used it as default in deblet for a while, but it was tough to get an onscreen keyboard integrated Jan 22 16:52:38 johnx what do you use now? Jan 22 16:52:41 that's the second problem :) Jan 22 16:53:05 woglinde, well deblet is on hold while we focus on mer. and mer is hildon-desktop :) Jan 22 16:54:01 slonopotamus, I won't lie, it's a real PITA. I got matchbox-keyboard to mostly play nice with sawfish wm Jan 22 16:54:37 johnx, why not matchbox-kb with matchbox-wm? Jan 22 16:54:51 slonopotamus, if you're using matchbox wm you might as well use maemo... Jan 22 16:55:24 johnx, see above :) i don't like patched gtk Jan 22 16:56:12 neither did Stskeeps or I at first. We both spent time trying to have our cake and eat it too :) Jan 22 16:57:16 johnx, so, i have my right to try :) Jan 22 16:57:43 johnx, you thought i'm insane when i started porting gentoo :) Jan 22 16:57:44 of course. :) I can't tell you what to do. And feel free to ask questions about the problems I ran into Jan 22 16:58:04 re Jan 22 16:58:07 slonopotamus, I *still* think you're insane for porting gentoo. Whether you succeed or not doesn't change that :P Jan 22 16:58:09 i really appreciate your advices Jan 22 16:58:17 :D Jan 22 16:58:42 btw, cpu is not a problem, it's fast enough Jan 22 16:58:53 ram is much worse Jan 22 16:58:53 you're far more patient that I... Jan 22 16:59:11 i have to quit microb when building apps Jan 22 16:59:19 not booting yet? Jan 22 16:59:26 it's too ram-hungry Jan 22 17:00:30 nope. i don't have much free time :) you saw how i started with gentoo somewhere in october Jan 22 17:00:46 yup Jan 22 17:00:54 kind of a rough start that time, IIRC Jan 22 17:02:07 * fireun wishes he could solder more ram onto his 770s Jan 22 17:02:14 i have to choose next target. either gui or booting. but booting without gui is pretty useless Jan 22 17:02:24 slonopotamus, no usb keyboard? Jan 22 17:02:24 ehy does anyone know how to change the time format in gpe Jan 22 17:02:36 fireun, has anyone tried that? Jan 22 17:02:50 fireun, lots of us have gadgets we feel that way about :/ Jan 22 17:02:53 johnx, can't find female-female usb cord here :( Jan 22 17:02:58 Is it possible for gconftool to dump a gconf schema file, or will I have to write one manually (ouch) myself? :/ Jan 22 17:03:09 ah, sad. have you tried usbnet? Jan 22 17:03:24 johnx, not yet Jan 22 17:03:26 Grackle, you'd have to be a machine to solder new RAM on there. Jan 22 17:03:53 Nah, surface mount soldering is easy. Jan 22 17:04:22 BGA Jan 22 17:04:45 fireun: where ya from? Jan 22 17:04:58 That's tricker, but a hot plate and a rework station will do it. Jan 22 17:05:03 trickier* Jan 22 17:05:26 johnx, actually i can say that i spent ~80% of time collecting info and ~20% for working for my first goal (working chroot) Jan 22 17:05:33 I just wouldn't know how to go about doing it. Is there room for more RAM? Jan 22 17:06:33 Or would you have to remove the RAM that's in it and replace it with a higher capacity chip? Jan 22 17:06:39 You'd have to swap in a bigger chip. Jan 22 17:07:03 I don't know if it would actually work anyway. Jan 22 17:07:26 i'll pay $200 to anyone who can put 256mb ram on my tablet (and if it'll still work) :) Jan 22 17:07:33 looks like I kicked over an anthill Jan 22 17:08:36 fireun, i was agreeing with you :) Jan 22 17:08:41 slonopotamus: is there a penalty if I fail> Jan 22 17:08:42 ? Jan 22 17:08:45 I'd love 128MB of RAM in my zaurus Jan 22 17:09:18 * Grackle off to class Jan 22 17:09:31 anyone gpe 12 hour time instead of 24 Jan 22 17:09:31 specifically, I'll give it a try, and accept $200 if I succeed, but I'd probably fail Jan 22 17:09:32 :þ Jan 22 17:09:33 slonopotamus, why not just buy a new tablet? :P Jan 22 17:09:44 GeneralAntilles: none exist with 256 MB RAM? Jan 22 17:09:45 hello Jan 22 17:10:19 Yet Jan 22 17:10:34 in which repository must be the command line whois ? Jan 22 17:10:44 GeneralAntilles, I'll believe it ... OMG, don't kill me! Jan 22 17:10:48 wheres my terrabyte of unified memory? Jan 22 17:11:43 anyone use gpe here Jan 22 17:11:54 fireun: a TB of memory that can only hold one value? Jan 22 17:11:59 why not just use a bit? Jan 22 17:12:59 fireun, sorry, I was going to bring it to you, but I accidentally dropped it in the future... Jan 22 17:13:47 Shadow__X: I believe it uses LC_TIME Jan 22 17:14:06 so how do i change that Jan 22 17:14:48 is that a file i can edit Jaffa Jan 22 17:17:17 johnx: oh, well let me just take a walk into tomorrow, I'll be right back Jan 22 17:17:50 hmm...I'm already in your tomorrow. I don't see it around here :/ might be farther up the road Jan 22 17:20:05 Shadow__X: It's an environment variable. Google should help Jan 22 17:21:02 how to enable the usb in host mode ? Jan 22 17:21:51 Pavlz, http://wiki.maemo.org/USB_host_mode Jan 22 17:25:41 how do you reset xterms zoom after you mess with it using the zoom keys on a n180 Jan 22 17:26:10 By pressing the buttons to get it back to how it was before perhaps? Jan 22 17:27:00 but what if you do not remember how many times you have pressed the buttons and do not remember how it should look Jan 22 17:30:57 There's no "should" look,you change it until you're happy. Nokia aren't going to send you an email, telling you off for having the "wrong" settings ;-) Jan 22 17:31:23 Jaffa, actually the part where it doesn't send that email is a bug :D Jan 22 17:31:52 hmm Jan 22 17:32:02 i meant default setting Jan 22 17:32:06 but yeah i get it Jan 22 17:32:35 i added a line in /etc/osso-af-init/locale Jan 22 17:32:45 expor lc_time =en_us Jan 22 17:32:46 Shadow__X: I think it just changes the size in Tools > settings. Jan 22 17:33:06 I use "Droid Sans Mono 10" Jan 22 17:33:08 It's a seperate setting to the font size in settings. Odd but true... Jan 22 17:33:30 qwerty12: but it doesn't expose it in the menu? Pfft Jan 22 17:34:00 Jaffa, it used to: http://qwerty12.maemobox.org/screenies/xterm-mod3.png :). But it was removed for some reason (I readded it) Jan 22 17:34:07 It's these little details which makes Maemo look like the poorest, cobbled together, open source man-in-a-garage effort Jan 22 17:35:01 * Jaffa suspects he may be in a bad mood today. Jan 22 17:35:19 For speaking bad against Nokia? ;) Jan 22 17:35:30 Jaffa, hence, garage.maemo.org :D Jan 22 17:35:35 Doing some Mer homepage wiki page editing and mud changes to finish off the vim package and get it into extras Jan 22 17:36:09 ah, Thanks Jaffa :) Jan 22 17:36:17 johnx: little did we know that Nokia were going back to Apple/HP levels of innovation Jan 22 17:36:18 * johnx should get back to mer stuff Jan 22 17:36:20 um Jan 22 17:36:24 what does +)pt mean? Jan 22 17:36:53 font sizes are in 'points' or 'pt' Jan 22 17:37:06 sure, but what's +0pt? Jan 22 17:37:16 johnx: I'm thninking of something like getfirefox.com, reusing the large friendly buttons from my maem.org mockup (URL not to hand) Jan 22 17:37:17 so your default font is 10pt + 0pt of additional zoom Jan 22 17:37:17 wouldn't a humand call that 'normal'? Jan 22 17:37:35 timeless, software isn't written by humans Jan 22 17:37:43 oh Jan 22 17:37:45 Message should be Jan 22 17:37:55 btw, that isn't a font size menu Jan 22 17:37:58 it's a font zoom menu Jan 22 17:38:06 XXX fix me before i take away your banana Jan 22 17:38:16 timeless, it's fixed. it was removed. Jan 22 17:38:45 now there's no way to set it to a certain zoom level through the menu. problem solved, eh? Jan 22 17:38:53 johnx: http://www.bleb.org/software/maemo/maemo-org_mockup.png for getting involved & downloading Jan 22 17:39:33 Jaffa, looks very nice :) So that's the design that's gonna be official? Jan 22 17:39:47 BTW, tell me it's not fixed width ... please Jan 22 17:39:51 Nah, maemo.org's gonna be betterf than that Jan 22 17:40:07 johnx, hit up the minutes on -community. :P Jan 22 17:40:18 GeneralAntilles, ah, ok. will check later Jan 22 17:40:30 And fixed width is evil; and this week's meeting (finally) switched the new design to be fluid; after X-Fade proved it could be done Jan 22 17:40:42 Jaffa, aaah. I misunderstood. so you're borrowing the buttons for mer wiki? Jan 22 17:40:59 johnx: yup. I'm proud of them :) Jan 22 17:41:26 yeah, it'd be nice for it to look like 'more than just another wiki page' :) Jan 22 17:44:45 sp3000 comnplains that the font size for the top stuff is too small, unless zoom works really well Jan 22 17:44:51 typos all mine Jan 22 17:45:17 it doesnt seem like anyone on itt has solved the 24 hour view on gpe summary Jan 22 17:45:19 johnx: bsolutely Jan 22 17:45:55 Shadow__X, most of the world uses 24h time Jan 22 17:46:02 usb-otg-plugin requires too much dependencies Jan 22 17:46:15 Pavlz, i suggest usb control Jan 22 17:46:21 yeah but i live in a controller that does not bend to peer pressure Jan 22 17:46:26 to be installed on nokia 770 Jan 22 17:46:44 Pavlz, you need something totally different on the 770. you need a different kernel Jan 22 17:46:48 i just try it without any success Jan 22 17:47:16 country* Jan 22 17:47:22 Pavlz, sorry. I forgot you had a 770 earlier Jan 22 17:47:29 iirc, the linux flasher has an option for enabling host mode on 770 Jan 22 17:47:39 any site that i can get hints about python development for maemo? or any known application that i can get the source that is already running at the tablet that was write in python? Jan 22 17:47:42 qwerty12, ah, is it just a flasher thing? Jan 22 17:47:47 if this mean to flash i renunce to it Jan 22 17:48:33 i have spent all the night to find all the packages Jan 22 17:48:38 johnx, flasher-3.0 has the option to "--enable-usb-host-mode" which I have read being used to enable 770's host mode. But I don't know if that is the "de facto" way (or even if it is the only way to do so). Jan 22 17:50:05 i think to do in hardware way Jan 22 17:50:07 Hey. Jan 22 17:50:17 * jpt9 has a 1GB RSMMC card for his 770 :-D Jan 22 17:50:27 * jpt9 is happy. Jan 22 17:50:37 i saw other people that build a circuit Jan 22 17:50:40 StOrM_NW: http://pymaemo.garage.maemo.org/ Jan 22 17:51:09 i thank you Jan 22 17:51:26 Pavlz, yes. there are two parts for the 770: a hardware part, then you need to use flasher to enable host mode (You don't need to reflash) Jan 22 17:51:41 really annoying that atleast I see in the wiki recent changes my own nickname still as if it wouldn't have a userpage Jan 22 17:51:43 if you google; nokia 770 usb host mode you should find answers Jan 22 17:53:22 the cable jtag for nokia 770 Jan 22 17:53:34 that's different Jan 22 17:53:38 I think Jan 22 17:53:43 that is similar to a mini rs 232 Jan 22 17:54:07 hell no, that's for the serial port at the back which has nothing to do with usb host. Jan 22 17:54:08 where is possible to find ? Jan 22 17:54:29 yes i know Jan 22 17:54:43 hi Jan 22 17:54:56 but where can i buy it ? Jan 22 17:55:08 Myrtti, there's a bug about it. Jan 22 17:55:24 Contributions are broken too Jan 22 17:55:25 the center of assistance don't give me one Jan 22 17:56:04 on the web i don't know where to search Jan 22 17:56:35 I think the general consensus is that you have to make one yourself... Jan 22 17:56:59 GeneralAntilles: yeah, that's really annoying as well Jan 22 17:58:14 I'm running a plain Debian armel on my N810 for testing. I copied the rx-44 keyboard symbol file and use 'setxkbmap -symbols "nokia_vndr/rx-44(fr)" to get a french keyboard mapping, but fn and ctrl keys don't work Jan 22 17:58:26 what else do I need ? Jan 22 17:59:04 anyone bought the jtag cable for nokia 770 ? Jan 22 17:59:51 Myrtti, has to do with accounts being imported from Garage. Jan 22 18:00:27 Pavlz, there's nothing to buy. Jan 22 18:00:30 You'll have to make your own. Jan 22 18:02:08 i could to do it Jan 22 18:02:48 if there is a map of pins Jan 22 18:02:58 Gnd, Rts, Jan 22 18:03:24 but the connector ? Jan 22 18:05:13 GeneralAntilles: suspected as much Jan 22 18:06:51 * qwerty12 remembers to never offer help in packaging a python app again... Jan 22 18:07:04 Stslap: any word on the mer repo? Jan 22 18:07:14 qwerty12, difficult? Jan 22 18:07:21 aaah. pymaemo? Jan 22 18:08:24 johnx, a fucking nightmare. I've used distutils with a setup.py that installs files correctly in the "python way" but I'm changing the way modules are imported etc on a ton of files etc :/ Jan 22 18:08:54 did you ever find what you wanted about gconf and dumping a schema? Jan 22 18:09:23 No, that's for something else, I've left that to one side for now :) Jan 22 18:09:56 I think you're meant to write the file out manually. Would be nice if you could dump a copy from gconf itself in the schema format... Jan 22 18:11:29 there's a get-scheme but it just prints the name I believe Jan 22 18:11:42 * slonopotamus has successfully compiles git, cvs and svn in gentoo Jan 22 18:11:53 s/compiles/compiled Jan 22 18:12:12 infobot died? Jan 22 18:12:23 yes, and your syntax is wrong Jan 22 18:12:29 Yes, but that substitution wouldn't have worked anyway Jan 22 18:12:47 s#s/compiles/compiled#s/compiles/compiled/# Jan 22 18:12:59 k? Jan 22 18:13:01 nah, all it needs is a "/" on the end Jan 22 18:13:09 that's what he did :) Jan 22 18:13:12 i added / ;) Jan 22 18:13:37 but infobot (even when it's here) doesn't understand anything but s/foo/bar/ Jan 22 18:13:44 nobody knows ? Jan 22 18:13:50 I was looking at it in regards of the first substitution :), the second one seems overkill for infobot ;) Jan 22 18:14:02 :) Jan 22 18:14:44 anyway. i didn't come across anything that didn't work in my gentoo Jan 22 18:14:53 zecrazytux, which x server are you using? Jan 22 18:15:07 i wonder if anyone else has eabi gentoo, or i'm first :) Jan 22 18:15:23 slonopotamus, some people working on it for the pandora Jan 22 18:16:19 johnx: xserver-xomap Jan 22 18:16:32 from the deblet project Jan 22 18:16:47 only thing I can think of is to try xmodmap -pke from both maemo and your debian install Jan 22 18:16:56 but I think they don't modify it, It may come from maemo Jan 22 18:17:04 johnx: http://www.gp32x.com/board/index.php?s=&showtopic=46265&view=findpost&p=691679 Jan 22 18:17:11 in deblet I believe HAL sets the keymap Jan 22 18:17:16 johnx: well that well and truely blows it out of the water Jan 22 18:17:21 * RST38h moos Jan 22 18:17:32 johnx: well, I don't want to use deblet Jan 22 18:17:36 johnx/qwerty/lardman/all helo Jan 22 18:17:42 johnx: how in maemo is the keymap set ? Jan 22 18:17:43 hi RST38h Jan 22 18:17:44 hi RST38h Jan 22 18:17:51 zecrazytux, with HAL Jan 22 18:18:02 * lardman grabs a glass of wine and does something useful like updating the sbc patches Jan 22 18:18:24 sbc - ? Jan 22 18:18:28 rather than being shocked at the rubbish handling of the Pandora Jan 22 18:18:29 http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,481426,00.html Jan 22 18:18:38 johnx: and what are the file used ? rx-44 is not sufficient ? Jan 22 18:18:39 slonopotamus: a2dp stuff Jan 22 18:18:48 oh Jan 22 18:19:09 will update with ssvb's latest patches, so we can have sbc goodness too :) Jan 22 18:19:37 zecrazytux, there's a .fdi file in maemo that's not in deblet. other than that make sure dbus is started before HAL and HAL is started before xserver-xomap Jan 22 18:19:42 sorry I don't remember the name Jan 22 18:21:56 lardman, yeah. I heard about that. are you gonna stick with it still or wait until there is actual hardware out there? Jan 22 18:23:12 johnx: i've found this: http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/maemo/developers/35105, that gives great information Jan 22 18:23:23 johnx: no it's canned as far as I'm concerned, I only wanted some omap3 hardware, and if they don't take CC I'm not interested Jan 22 18:23:26 I've found it thanks to you, eh :) Jan 22 18:23:32 johnx: many thanks Jan 22 18:23:53 Hi again ! Jan 22 18:23:59 johnx: what about you? Did you pay, I can't remember? Jan 22 18:24:11 zecrazytux, sure. no problem. Jan 22 18:24:43 lardman, I'm hanging in there. I'm going to pass on the next Nokia produkt unless someone just hands me one I think Jan 22 18:26:08 johnx: oh yeah, you were after the gaming controls weren't you. I'd far prefer a Nokia tablet to the Pandora. Might have to get a Beagle now to fill the gap Jan 22 18:26:19 * lardman grumbles about wasting time waiting for the Pandora Jan 22 18:26:39 johnx, you don't think you can get a discount code? Jan 22 18:26:49 lardman, I was after 'early access' and some other niceties. gaming controls are a plus though Jan 22 18:27:12 GeneralAntilles, dunno. have to see when it comes out and whether I'm in a position to use it :) Jan 22 18:27:30 GeneralAntilles, but to answer your question: no I didn't think I'd get one when I ordered the pandora Jan 22 18:28:54 i bought a nokia N810 .. and i m trying to use the maemo sdk+ that was released. maemo sdk+ had installed the rootstrap diablo4.1.2_armel as the default rootstrap to use, can i use it for development for n810, the tablet is using the original firmware that comes when ya buy a new device. OS 2008, is this the diablo4.1.2 version? Jan 22 18:29:05 johnx, with Deblet and everything? Jan 22 18:29:09 I think you underestimate yourself. Jan 22 18:29:18 Did you _see_ some of the people they handed those things out to last time? Jan 22 18:29:48 GeneralAntilles: oi! ;) Jan 22 18:30:05 GeneralAntilles, i actually didn't do much with deblet, and in september I wasn't really planning to do much more on it Jan 22 18:30:57 StOrM_NW, whatever came installed on it is almost certainly out of date. You should install the latest OS for it Jan 22 18:31:29 is there any way to see which version is running at it atm? Jan 22 18:31:49 StOrM_NW, settings -> control panel -> about product Jan 22 18:31:50 Menu > Settings > Control Panel > About Jan 22 18:31:58 but it just says OS 2008 Jan 22 18:32:15 yes, OS2008 has been out since late 2007 :) Jan 22 18:32:23 what *exact* version does it say? Jan 22 18:32:27 oh heheh Jan 22 18:32:36 Version: 2.2007.51-3 Jan 22 18:32:47 right, you're a year out of date :) Jan 22 18:32:51 heh lol Jan 22 18:32:54 nod Jan 22 18:33:04 https://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware Jan 22 18:33:24 is it a safe task? Jan 22 18:33:26 I see Siarhei is being put to good use by Nokia, Cortex code for sbc encoding Jan 22 18:33:31 StOrM_NW, yup Jan 22 18:34:08 lardman, optimized assembly for the a8, right? Jan 22 18:34:51 johnx: yep, looks like that's what his plan is (from the Bluez list) Jan 22 18:35:07 very cool Jan 22 18:35:14 will be looking forward to that :) Jan 22 18:41:51 hmm, bluez site doesn't have much info for the budding bluez developer to work out how to download their repo Jan 22 18:42:12 i'll tell you one secret Jan 22 18:42:29 why i like source-based distros Jan 22 18:43:07 because there's something in watching build log running through screen :) Jan 22 18:44:02 * johnx prefers using his device :P Jan 22 18:44:03 Build firefox and you'll soon get bored... Jan 22 18:44:27 heck, even firefox's build-depends Jan 22 18:44:44 it's even better if you use it at work. My last job was a place where they were amazed to see a cli ftp client uploading some files. They'd be blown away to see me running a firefox build. Jan 22 18:44:45 hehe Jan 22 18:45:47 doc|home, did they hide under their desks and scream 'witch'? Jan 22 18:45:54 what? just me? Jan 22 18:46:07 hahaha Jan 22 18:46:09 :D Jan 22 18:46:43 hmm, anyone have a clue as to how to download Bluez using git Jan 22 18:46:45 ? Jan 22 18:46:53 * lardman goes looking for some clues Jan 22 18:47:10 * johnx looks Jan 22 18:47:31 * slonopotamus dislikes libtool-based builds. they write almost identical commands three times per each file Jan 22 18:47:39 * lcuk smiles Jan 22 18:47:48 ah, git clone git://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/bluetooth/bluez.git Jan 22 18:47:59 shame they don't mention that on their website Jan 22 18:48:02 lardman, looks like, beat me to it by a second :P Jan 22 18:48:14 probably to disuade people like me from using it ;) Jan 22 18:48:15 johnx, TTL Jan 22 18:48:22 johnx: thanks anyway Jan 22 18:48:27 git sucks for getting a specific branch, I had to do : http://qwerty12.maemobox.org/appman/testing/testing/README just to get release diablo branch Jan 22 18:48:33 lardman, pm Jan 22 18:48:38 'later lcuk Jan 22 18:48:44 oh my Jan 22 18:48:47 you goin? Jan 22 18:48:52 my gentoo git works! Jan 22 18:49:12 lcuk, ah, I thought TTL was Talk Toyou later Jan 22 18:49:22 time to live for the web Jan 22 18:49:30 thats why lardman won Jan 22 18:50:16 also because he was looking for it 15 minutes before me :P Jan 22 18:50:25 heh yeah Jan 22 18:51:12 * slonopotamus is scared of building openoffice Jan 22 18:51:42 make? Jan 22 18:53:43 TTL is Transistor-Transistor Logic Jan 22 18:54:06 TTL is ambiguous Jan 22 18:54:10 Whoever thinks it is something different is either too young or never learned any EE Jan 22 18:54:23 * RST38h cackles evilly Jan 22 18:54:24 Hey. Jan 22 18:54:46 I just got a 1GB RSMMC card; I have around ~700MB or so of ebooks on it... Jan 22 18:54:50 RST38h, TTL is time to live. whoever doesn't know what it means should get off my Internet Jan 22 18:54:53 and? Jan 22 18:54:54 For some reason, FBReader is much slower with it. Jan 22 18:55:02 Any ideas on what might be going on? Jan 22 18:55:05 johnx: I have infinite time to live Jan 22 18:55:21 * fireun agrees with RST38h Jan 22 18:55:25 johnx: Means two things: first, your ttl does not apply, second, not getting off =) Jan 22 18:55:39 RST38h, would explain your routing loops... Jan 22 18:55:53 * fireun sets his parity bit Jan 22 18:55:56 jpt9, is it indexing all 700MB? Jan 22 18:56:06 Dunno... Jan 22 18:56:09 johnx: Large and Coily is the Tentacled One! Jan 22 18:56:11 I doubt it. Jan 22 18:56:26 They're all either .txt, .htm, or .rtf, none of which, IIRC, FBReader can actually index. Jan 22 18:56:32 jpt: If you formatted it in a phone, you may want to reformat on the tablet Jan 22 18:56:34 I don't use FBReader's library; I just add them. Jan 22 18:56:38 I haven't formatted it. Jan 22 18:56:44 It came preformatted. Jan 22 18:56:50 reformat. Jan 22 18:57:00 I'll try doing that this weekend. Jan 22 18:57:01 so what's slower? fbreader or anything that uses the card? Jan 22 18:57:04 How long would it take in the 770? Jan 22 18:57:12 whole week =) Jan 22 18:57:18 lol. Jan 22 18:57:23 probably about a minute or two? Jan 22 18:57:24 if you do it by hand, sector by sector Jan 22 18:57:32 Haven't really tried anything besides FBReader. Jan 22 18:57:50 did the 770 have metalayer-crawler? Jan 22 18:58:34 johnx: Mine does. Jan 22 18:58:41 * jpt9 is running 2007HE. I think. Jan 22 18:58:49 how does one go from Makefile.am -> MAkefile.in -> Makefile? Jan 22 18:58:50 make sure it's not going nuts :) Jan 22 18:58:54 How? Jan 22 18:59:06 lardman configure Jan 22 18:59:19 jpt9, open x terminal and type top Jan 22 18:59:35 lardman, autosomething make in file, configure m Jan 22 18:59:43 akes Makefile Jan 22 18:59:51 the .am and .in are parameters used to build the final makefile - i dread seeing them in projects cos i cant run make on them on device Jan 22 19:00:34 johnx: Doesn't seem to be going nuts or anything. Jan 22 19:04:39 johnx, does mer run fsck wher it is imprpoperly shut down? Jan 22 19:05:21 slonopotamus, let me check the boot scripts. I believe it does, but that was Stslap's thing, not mine :) Jan 22 19:05:28 ah Jan 22 19:06:14 what is this mer of which you speak? Jan 22 19:07:04 doc|home, https://wiki.maemo.org/Mer Jan 22 19:07:07 ~mer Jan 22 19:07:13 hm Jan 22 19:07:22 !mer Jan 22 19:07:22 BTW, Tesla is currently doing a Pandora at a much larger scale Jan 22 19:07:23 it's Nokia's hildon moved to a minimal ubuntu base Jan 22 19:07:27 woglinde, infobot is dead Jan 22 19:07:29 no infobot Jan 22 19:07:31 oh Jan 22 19:07:34 where is he gone Jan 22 19:07:35 http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2009/01/22/tesla_takes_tax_break_cash/ Jan 22 19:07:39 infbot has deserted us :'( Jan 22 19:07:53 hmm, doesn't seem to autogen a Makefile Jan 22 19:07:53 Don't you, early Pandora adopters, feel happy now? :) Jan 22 19:07:55 who manages infobot? Jan 22 19:07:56 RST38h, except pandora honored their original price and is only a couple months late so far :) Jan 22 19:08:02 RST38h, hell yeah wouldnt you :D Jan 22 19:08:16 oooh thats not right Jan 22 19:08:48 hah, infobot is connected to freenode - just not in any channel Jan 22 19:09:00 lardman does ./configure fail for any reason? Jan 22 19:09:08 qwerty12_N800, maybe we can pm him and lure him back? Jan 22 19:09:12 I'm using dpkg-buildpackage Jan 22 19:09:20 thats making a .deb Jan 22 19:09:37 johnx, you first :p. i'll swear Jan 22 19:09:44 indeed, build & make deb Jan 22 19:09:51 at it probably :P Jan 22 19:10:02 whats the makefile for then? Jan 22 19:10:15 lardman, what's the debian/rules file like? Jan 22 19:10:24 * lcuk looks at qwerty Jan 22 19:10:30 qwerty12_N800, the best part will be when I msg infobot something inane and it's actually someone's nick :) Jan 22 19:11:04 johnx, lol, always a good situation to be in :) Jan 22 19:11:21 * qwerty12_N800 waves at lcuk Jan 22 19:11:23 he doesn't reply Jan 22 19:11:32 infobot, i mean Jan 22 19:11:52 ahh Jan 22 19:11:55 lcuk, a dpkg-buildpackage follows the rules in debian/rules, which usually consist (very roughly) of calling ./configure && make && make install, then doing any debian specific shuffling about Jan 22 19:11:56 hello infobot Jan 22 19:11:58 i cured him Jan 22 19:11:59 yay! Jan 22 19:11:59 qwerty12_N800: horrible as always ;) Jan 22 19:12:14 * Stslap yawns Jan 22 19:12:14 ahhh johnx, i thought it took preexisting stuff Jan 22 19:12:15 ~hump qwerty12_N800 Jan 22 19:12:23 i told him to join #maemo Jan 22 19:12:27 :) Jan 22 19:12:37 slonopotamus, wicked :) Jan 22 19:12:56 ~lart the unbelievers Jan 22 19:12:57 * infobot cuts off the unbelievers's head with a halberd that could have been a little bit sharper Jan 22 19:13:01 Is there a sshfs applet for maemo? Jan 22 19:13:04 lardman, hehe, you get used to it eventually :p Jan 22 19:13:05 ~botsnack Jan 22 19:13:06 aw, gee, johnx Jan 22 19:13:10 qwerty12_N800, uh? Jan 22 19:13:18 geers, yes Jan 22 19:13:22 r2d2rogers: apologies, it's really stormy outside and i have to finish a paper today :) Jan 22 19:13:28 meant to go to restart it but forgot Jan 22 19:13:47 slonopotamus, that you got 'im (or her looking at ~shag response...) back Jan 22 19:14:01 :) Jan 22 19:14:50 geers, I think it's in extras Jan 22 19:15:08 But by doing so, you've sealed my fate because GeneralAntilles can now ~stab me :P Jan 22 19:15:32 Hmm guess I have to google it Jan 22 19:15:59 hmm, it lies Jan 22 19:16:01 geers, it's in the extras repository. do you have that enabled? Jan 22 19:16:47 ~say hello, people Jan 22 19:16:48 hello, people Jan 22 19:16:50 Hello all :=) Jan 22 19:16:51 :) Jan 22 19:16:54 Yes Jan 22 19:17:05 infobot, wipe me down Jan 22 19:17:06 # dd if=/dev/zero of=me down Jan 22 19:17:18 ~stab qwerty12_N800 Jan 22 19:17:19 * infobot runs at qwerty12_N800 with an origami Swiss Army knife, and inflicts a nasty paper cut. Jan 22 19:17:24 geers, it won't show up in the application manager. try apt-cache search sshfs Jan 22 19:17:27 Noooooo Jan 22 19:18:38 Ahh offcourse. But is this for diablo? Jan 22 19:19:06 geers, yes Jan 22 19:19:42 ~mer Jan 22 19:19:44 hmm... mer is http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer_Blueprint_New and http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer_Blueprint Jan 22 19:19:57 Ok. Thanks. Igive it a try Jan 22 19:20:22 infobot, mer is https://wiki.maemo.org/Mer Jan 22 19:20:23 ...but mer is already something else... Jan 22 19:20:38 infobot, no, mer is http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer Jan 22 19:20:38 infobot, no, mer is https://wiki.maemo.org/Mer Jan 22 19:20:39 okay, Stslap Jan 22 19:20:40 okay, johnx Jan 22 19:20:46 infobot, no, mer is http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer Jan 22 19:20:47 hihi Jan 22 19:20:48 http :P Jan 22 19:20:52 eep O_o Jan 22 19:20:53 sorry Jan 22 19:20:54 infobot, no, mer is http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer Jan 22 19:20:55 Stslap: okay Jan 22 19:25:34 why is infobot only in #maemo and not the others channels anymore? Jan 22 19:25:58 x29a: we had lost it for a bit too O_o Jan 22 19:26:01 because they haven't told him/her/it to come back Jan 22 19:29:38 infobot, join #debian Jan 22 19:29:52 x29a, it takes only that. Jan 22 19:30:36 Jaffa: http://stskeeps.jaiku.com/presence/52095448 Jan 22 19:30:56 if you want to relay some things :) Jan 22 19:39:20 ? Jan 22 19:39:33 i didn't know ham is working Jan 22 19:39:35 :) Jan 22 19:40:28 so it is Jan 22 19:43:11 but repository is down right now as it's snowing and windy outside :P Jan 22 19:44:15 I keep telling you to take your server in from outside :D Jan 22 19:44:28 i know but the freezing cold keeps it running well Jan 22 19:44:31 :P Jan 22 19:44:47 Evidently :p Jan 22 19:47:34 * lcuk facepalms Jan 22 19:47:47 infact, its a double facepalm Jan 22 19:48:03 with glasses removed Jan 22 19:48:06 and a heavy sigh Jan 22 19:48:11 2 ascii facepalms coming up, no pastebin! Jan 22 19:48:31 * lcuk watches qwerty get banned for flooding Jan 22 19:52:32 hello cruel world Jan 22 19:52:40 i heard a rumor there's a fremantle sdk Jan 22 19:52:41 evening timeless Jan 22 19:52:45 what kind of something is it? Jan 22 19:52:48 timeless: second pre-alpha Jan 22 19:52:51 and how do i get that something? Jan 22 19:52:58 how do i get the first pre-alpha? Jan 22 19:53:05 maemo.org Jan 22 19:53:14 # First pre-alpha SDK, first report on API changes and beginning of weekly releases. Suitable for platform development only. December 2008. Jan 22 19:53:15 # Second pre-alpha SDK with Media Application Framework and more new platform components around January 2009. Jan 22 19:53:54 Ztz Jan 22 19:53:57 Sorry, Sts Jan 22 19:54:05 mm? Jan 22 19:54:15 but yes, i feel like a ztzzz atm Jan 22 19:54:20 stslap: right, so how do i get alpha pre 1? Jan 22 19:54:46 timeless: http://maemo.org/news/announcements/first_maemo_5_sdk_release_targeting_platform_developers/ Jan 22 19:55:32 can i use that to get pre1? Jan 22 19:55:34 i don't want pre2 Jan 22 19:55:45 that's the pre-alpha we got, pre2 isn't out yet Jan 22 19:55:50 oh Jan 22 19:56:05 we're eagerly waiting though Jan 22 19:56:06 so i'm *about* to run out of time Jan 22 19:56:37 huh? run out of time for what now? Jan 22 19:56:44 well Jan 22 19:56:47 Even though you're timeless? Jan 22 19:56:51 nokia has a pre? Jan 22 19:56:51 imagine you want to catalog each version of the sdk Jan 22 19:56:55 i thought that was palm Jan 22 19:56:55 http://repository.maemo.org/dists/ Jan 22 19:56:58 only has Jan 22 19:57:05 maemo5.0/ Jan 22 19:57:08 but it had: Jan 22 19:57:11 maemo4.0-beta/ Jan 22 19:57:21 which means there's no way for me to get older versions of 5.0 Jan 22 19:57:26 because they're not kept anywhere Jan 22 19:58:00 ah. a noble goal Jan 22 19:58:02 best of luck Jan 22 19:59:20 huh...and archive.org appears to have stopped indexing that Jan 22 19:59:23 interesting Jan 22 19:59:41 robots.txt is powerful Jan 22 20:00:48 some day ~1995 - 20xx will be a spectacular set of blank pages in lots of history books Jan 22 20:01:06 "what were they doing then?" "oh, probably just watching TV." Jan 22 20:01:40 digital dark ages is real johnx Jan 22 20:01:48 people have nothing to show for the last 5 years Jan 22 20:01:59 only way to avoid it is to keep your own data online :) Jan 22 20:01:59 * qwerty12_N800 resents that. At least I use my tablet when sitting on my seat. Jan 22 20:02:51 what will be most unfortunate is the lack of preserved copies of the news/blogs Jan 22 20:03:22 already I'm having to do coordinated attacks on google cache / archive.org just to show people articles from a couple years ago Jan 22 20:04:07 I like that I can't access the archives of the blog my friends and I kept in high school because the domain is owned by a squatter now. Jan 22 20:04:17 johnx, technically now its both easier and more difficult Jan 22 20:04:29 yeah, i need to poison archive.org so my stuff will survive Jan 22 20:04:49 stuff that i knew i could go to the library and lookup is on the whole available online (sometimes behind secure walls, but its there) Jan 22 20:05:42 to be an archaeologist in 100 years will be quite insane Jan 22 20:06:44 "writing emulation software based on analysis of partially damaged binaries, 101" Jan 22 20:07:02 that problem already exists Jan 22 20:07:14 the rosetta stones are *ahem* key to that Jan 22 20:07:35 heh...looking at the same software compiled for a different OS? Jan 22 20:07:49 no, languages in general Jan 22 20:08:23 the scaryest thing will be random pieces of printout found in the dig and trying to work out the programs functionality and purpose from that single page fragment Jan 22 20:08:43 and evading SCOs robot descendents while you are at it Jan 22 20:08:51 we'll have emulators on emulators on emulators :) Jan 22 20:08:59 :) Jan 22 20:09:26 just to try and open some 16 year old's poetry in word 6.0 .doc format Jan 22 20:09:33 running xephyr in scratchbox in linux in vmware in windows.. Jan 22 20:10:08 heh i dug out my cv a couple of months ago and it was in amipro format i think Jan 22 20:10:34 I really do wonder how long NAND will actually last Jan 22 20:10:42 retaining data I mean Jan 22 20:10:47 * qwerty12_N800 wonders how much the age field was updated by :p Jan 22 20:11:17 hi. I can't manage to get maemo-select-menu-location working Jan 22 20:11:31 well qwerty, heres the filename CV_gary_birkett_v4_2008.doc Jan 22 20:11:42 lcuk, hehe :P Jan 22 20:11:48 I placed the .desktop file on /usr/share/applications/hildon and I am calling it manually and doesn't show anything on the device Jan 22 20:11:52 (n810) Jan 22 20:11:53 any tips? Jan 22 20:11:57 * lcuk has only ever needed cv 4 times in his life :) Jan 22 20:12:10 dieb_, you dont call the .desktop file Jan 22 20:12:16 you call the binary or script Jan 22 20:12:30 if the .desktop references an osso service that must also be setup correctly Jan 22 20:12:35 lcuk, sorry, i wrote wrong Jan 22 20:12:35 and the binary should register itself Jan 22 20:12:37 dieb_, How are you invoking it? Jan 22 20:12:46 * lcuk puts on his wizard hat Jan 22 20:12:48 lcuk, not needed for ...-location Jan 22 20:12:48 I'm calling maemo-select-menu-location mydesktop.desktop Jan 22 20:13:04 ahhh didnt see the first bit Jan 22 20:13:15 lcuk, ;P Jan 22 20:13:17 did i get the rest right though? :D Jan 22 20:13:32 dieb_, running as root? Jan 22 20:13:39 qwerty12_N800, yes, as root or as user, both do not work Jan 22 20:14:05 that .desktop just has Name, Exec, Type and Comment Jan 22 20:17:21 lcuk, some light please ;~ Jan 22 20:17:22 I need a how to about compiling and booting a new kernel for the N800 Jan 22 20:20:22 qwerty12_N800, hi ? Jan 22 20:20:29 radic, for n8x0? Jan 22 20:21:25 johnx: yes Jan 22 20:21:31 radic, http://maemo.org/maemo_release_documentation/maemo4.1.x/node12.html Jan 22 20:21:37 dieb_, I don't know :). I just ran it on a already installed desktop file fine & I've used it successfully in all my postinsts before :) Jan 22 20:22:05 not good (for me) Jan 22 20:22:21 johnx: have you ruby on your N8x0? Jan 22 20:22:26 radic, I don't Jan 22 20:22:29 qwerty12_N800, maybe my .desktop is invalid Jan 22 20:22:37 is there any ref? Jan 22 20:22:53 found it, nvm Jan 22 20:26:18 * johnx is having fun with remedial regexps Jan 22 20:27:17 qwerty12_N800, does it require an icon ? Jan 22 20:28:02 dieb_, shouldn't do Jan 22 20:28:29 If you can pastebin the desktop file, I can try it over here Jan 22 20:29:05 X-Fade: what version of mediawiki are we using? Jan 22 20:29:37 qwerty12_N800, http://pastebin.embedded.ufcg.edu.br/17 Jan 22 20:32:13 qwerty12_N800, damn Jan 22 20:32:21 the problem was application and not Application Jan 22 20:32:54 Case sensivity - always an annoyance :) Jan 22 20:32:59 sorry about the time waste ;P Jan 22 20:35:17 dieb_, no worries. i ask dumb questions all the time and they haven't kicked me out yet :) Jan 22 20:36:11 00194FD422 Jan 22 20:36:15 http://wiki.maemo.org/Special:Version Jan 22 20:36:17 johnx, glad to hear that Jan 22 20:39:34 qwerty12_N800, after my tries Jan 22 20:39:40 the menu has lots of dup items Jan 22 20:39:46 how can I erase them ? ;p Jan 22 20:39:49 GeneralAntilles: trying to type your MAC? ;) Jan 22 20:41:00 dieb_, no idea :/ Jan 22 20:41:04 certainly looks that way :) Jan 22 20:41:04 hahaha Jan 22 20:41:24 maybe control panel Jan 22 20:41:55 yay! thats it Jan 22 20:42:32 johnx: we need to look at control panel too Jan 22 20:42:32 wtf, I can't remove apps Jan 22 20:42:55 dieb_ it sounds like you have made your n810 die_ Jan 22 20:43:12 lcuk, :/ Jan 22 20:43:13 Stskeepie, yeah. why do people have to fiddle with settings? why can't the defaults be good enough for them? Jan 22 20:43:22 :P Jan 22 20:43:24 because we can Jan 22 20:43:30 * Stskeepie honestly never looked at hildon control panel Jan 22 20:43:34 does it take python applets? Jan 22 20:43:42 X-Fade: ping (another extension would be good: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:ImageMap ) Jan 22 20:44:09 Stskeepie, think it's C only... Jan 22 20:44:16 qwerty12_N800: we have to change that :P Jan 22 20:44:21 geep O_o Jan 22 20:44:24 hehe Jan 22 20:44:33 there's no real good reason why it shouldn't be just another personal menu like thing. Jan 22 20:45:28 in fact, if the menu weren't so cramped or if we had a different launcher, there's no reason it couldn't be *part* of the main menu Jan 22 20:46:28 as to settings, if it ant broke your not trying Jan 22 20:47:00 :( Jan 22 20:47:27 johnx: where are the kernel-modules located in OS2008? Jan 22 20:47:30 dieb_, look for .desktop files that were created under /usr/share/applications/hildon Jan 22 20:47:45 radic, /mnt/initfs/lib/modules/$(uname -r) Jan 22 20:47:48 IIRC Jan 22 20:47:54 that's the problem Jan 22 20:48:03 johnx, no new .desktop files Jan 22 20:48:16 then you need to somehow refresh the menu to reflect that Jan 22 20:48:16 I have 5 copies of my menu item Jan 22 20:48:18 and one file Jan 22 20:48:20 hmm Jan 22 20:48:21 but I don't remember the command Jan 22 20:48:34 mumble-buzz-update or somesuch Jan 22 20:48:43 <- not helpful right now, sorry Jan 22 20:48:48 haha Jan 22 20:48:49 update-desktop-database Jan 22 20:49:15 qwerty12_N800, one day your memory will go too :P Jan 22 20:50:01 lol Jan 22 20:50:19 hehe, jealousy in the old isn't a nice touch :P Jan 22 20:50:20 yay! Jan 22 20:50:21 worked Jan 22 20:50:27 removed the .desktop and update-desktop-database Jan 22 20:50:28 :) Jan 22 20:50:30 thanks Jan 22 20:50:44 qwerty12_N800, what was I jealous about again? and where the hell are my teeth? Jan 22 20:51:08 shit Jan 22 20:51:20 i tried adding it again Jan 22 20:51:21 johnx: is the USB-support compiled in the kernel? Jan 22 20:51:27 all 7 items got back to the menu Jan 22 20:51:27 haha Jan 22 20:51:27 johnx, :P Jan 22 20:51:48 lol :/ Jan 22 20:52:21 radic, the modules g_file_storage and g_serial contain much of the USB support. You should base your new configuration off of the old config file Jan 22 20:52:47 johnx: thx Jan 22 20:53:09 johnx: I have problemes withe a USB-hub that dosn't work Jan 22 20:53:18 * lardman curses debian packaging and hits the sack Jan 22 20:53:20 night all Jan 22 20:53:26 johnx: I thougth a new kernel will help Jan 22 20:53:26 'night lardman|gone Jan 22 20:54:16 radic, you may as well try disabling CONFIG_USB_OTG_WHITELIST Jan 22 20:55:32 what is responsible for "n810 keyboard tip & tricks" under maemo ? that ain't related to the keymap, is it ? is that hildon-input-method ? Jan 22 20:56:40 Stskeepie, nah, another serial. ;) Jan 22 20:57:32 GeneralAntilles: did you see quim's response to firmware images btw? Jan 22 20:58:09 ah right! I should finish that list (!!) Jan 22 20:58:16 no sleep for johnx Jan 22 20:58:36 sorry? 'sleep'? Is that some Swedish word? Jan 22 20:58:53 hehe Jan 22 20:59:44 Stskeepie: no worries, how's the paper going? Jan 22 20:59:59 r2d2rogers: 'When the centralized management suggests a plausible power saving measure to be deployed and such a power measure is deployed' .. Jan 22 21:00:00 :P Jan 22 21:00:31 * qwerty12_N800 pre-orders the book Jan 22 21:00:49 qwerty12_N800, I hear it has a twist ending. won't spoil it though Jan 22 21:01:30 * qwerty12_N800 takes johnx's teeth as punishment Jan 22 21:01:55 nof my teef! Jan 22 21:02:15 hehe Jan 22 21:02:37 * johnx tells qwerty12_N800's mom :P Jan 22 21:02:49 No! Jan 22 21:03:18 * qwerty12_N800 returns the teeth :( Jan 22 21:03:20 this'd be your third grand theft dentures, wouldn't it? Jan 22 21:03:53 Yes :(. Dunno how I keep getting caught :( Jan 22 21:06:06 if i wanted to setup a webserver in linux can i get it talking to a custom c library? (ie for certain types of files call into libliqbase or some derivative executed on server) ? Jan 22 21:06:26 lcuk: CGI? :P Jan 22 21:06:47 miami or new york? Jan 22 21:06:58 east london Jan 22 21:07:01 lcuk, CGI = just have it run some binary Jan 22 21:07:05 i thought cgi was something different Jan 22 21:07:08 ahhh Jan 22 21:07:28 :) thats great Jan 22 21:07:43 lcuk.com/import-my-stuff.exe?my-new-file.liq Jan 22 21:07:55 if i upgraded my server box on liqbase.net does it just become another machien i can ssh into? Jan 22 21:08:31 huh? I dunno what kind of hosting plan you have Jan 22 21:08:39 so "it depends" Jan 22 21:08:47 unimportant ill pay what i have to if i have to Jan 22 21:08:54 as long as i can do that Jan 22 21:09:49 if i setup my old craptop as a headless box, is it apache that i install? Jan 22 21:09:59 yeah, apache would be fine Jan 22 21:10:14 :) cool, cos i dont wanna have to reinvent everything ;) Jan 22 21:10:15 lighttpd is good too and faster and less stuff to *$&% around with Jan 22 21:10:30 i want/need databases and scalability though Jan 22 21:11:29 it scales. lots of big sites running it, and yes, on most distros it's relatively easy to setup with sqlite or mysql Jan 22 21:11:54 ok, ill go with mysql for the real db, sqlite has scared me by being the only sql so far thats case sensitive Jan 22 21:12:17 and lighttpd has a manageable config file. mucking about in apache is a little daunting at first Jan 22 21:12:36 what scripting can i do in light? Jan 22 21:12:41 I mean, the config files are *clean* and they make sense, but there's just... a lot of them Jan 22 21:12:44 lcuk: please please please do not make liqbase depend on mysql Jan 22 21:12:46 or is that configurable/installable? Jan 22 21:12:55 RST38h, this is the server app Jan 22 21:12:59 nothing to do with client side :) Jan 22 21:12:59 ah Jan 22 21:13:02 lcuk, you can have it run arbitrary scripts Jan 22 21:13:08 lcuk: no problem then =) Jan 22 21:13:31 RST38h, client side sqlite is the only feasible alternative Jan 22 21:13:35 option* Jan 22 21:13:52 johnx, i meant which languages Jan 22 21:13:58 Btw, anyone knows a how-to on making php scripts access files not available for direct download via http? Jan 22 21:14:08 i.e. apache should not be able to access them but php scripts should Jan 22 21:14:27 RST38h, doesn't the php script run with apache's permissions? Jan 22 21:14:37 johnx: it does Jan 22 21:14:38 RST38h, same way as other things isnt it, store them in parent folders to the one needed Jan 22 21:14:42 that is the whole problem Jan 22 21:14:45 ie webserver is www Jan 22 21:15:05 database is still in your workspace but in "../data/mydatabase.sq" Jan 22 21:15:11 lcuk: Won't work as apache can't access these files and php runs with apache permissions Jan 22 21:15:23 Stskeepie, yes. Jan 22 21:15:31 Also: Woo! USB Model M. Jan 22 21:15:36 permissions like that are different to publically accessible folders Jan 22 21:16:02 ? Jan 22 21:16:45 the permissions apache has over the file system can be different to the set of visible folders being server Jan 22 21:16:46 d Jan 22 21:17:01 but im going off very old historical recolections Jan 22 21:17:08 I do not think so Jan 22 21:17:20 generally in unix, servers are locked into a chroot jail Jan 22 21:17:22 Is there some howto I can read on this? Jan 22 21:17:46 GeneralAntilles: any suggestions of strategies for wishlist? we're thinking of doing "definately needed for initial image" "would be useful as part of firmware, but not required, to bring Mer/N8x0 experience close to the Maemo/N8x0" "could be useful for user to be able to download from a Nokia repository".. or something Jan 22 21:17:48 RST38h, there is some exploit code :) Jan 22 21:18:58 johnx: Not really interested in exploits, just need to do a mechanism for safe software distribution Jan 22 21:21:35 RST38h, on my webhost using ftp i can create a folder "privatebinaries". in php when i am running it, i can enumerate that folder. a web user cannot access that folders contents generically Jan 22 21:22:00 another example, i have a stats/ folder on my webserver. it accesses the logs/ folder which is nowhere to be seen Jan 22 21:22:10 lcuk: I have got a plain BSD machine with shell access Jan 22 21:22:22 so, basically, I need to figure out how to do it with permissions Jan 22 21:22:47 store your binaries away from webroot giving it apache user access rights Jan 22 21:22:58 aha Jan 22 21:23:03 interesting idea Jan 22 21:23:21 but isn't this exploitable? Jan 22 21:23:40 how? if the user cannot even access or touch the files directly? Jan 22 21:23:48 if you make a bad script, sure its doable Jan 22 21:24:28 yea, but I am more cncerned about some specially designed URL Jan 22 21:24:39 that leads web server to my "safe" directory Jan 22 21:24:43 lemme try Jan 22 21:24:45 sanitize your inputs then :) download.php?file=../pr0n/clowns/midgets.avi Jan 22 21:25:04 urgh! was that a direct quote? =) Jan 22 21:25:10 lol Jan 22 21:27:36 ok, should i tackle styling information first, or user input? Jan 22 21:27:48 Does the 770 need any non-redistributable firmware besides the wifi firmware? Jan 22 21:28:11 I can never remember if it needed something for bluetooth or not... Jan 22 21:30:40 johnx: i think there's a bc4fw.bin or something Jan 22 21:30:44 johnx: Ibrf6150fw.bin Jan 22 21:30:52 johnx: errr brf6150fw.bin Jan 22 21:30:54 ah, great Jan 22 21:31:05 well, not great, but good to know :) Jan 22 21:31:41 r2d2rogers: http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail//maemo-community/2009-January/002946.html , we're trying to lurk 770 under this too :P Jan 22 21:31:59 \o/ Jan 22 21:33:00 very nice Jan 22 21:33:23 aaah, forgot all about DSP tasks Jan 22 21:33:31 a whole new world of fun Jan 22 21:33:45 I've been hunting around on the bluetooth and wifi areas since sapwood is fixed Jan 22 21:33:48 Ah yeah Jan 22 21:33:54 I'd love to have the sound work again ;) Jan 22 21:34:11 I think someone is working on a non-dsp based alsa driver Jan 22 21:36:01 Is there any movement on trying to document/give credit/make known the efforts various people in the maemo community are active in? Jan 22 21:37:07 we don't have mer karma yet if that's what you're asking :) Jan 22 21:38:31 r2d2rogers: btw, http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer/Sprints , read through/send me a mail so we can just keep track of people :) (mainly to put on the participants list) Jan 22 21:39:02 hopefully we'll be able to give credit where credit is due using the sprints and the jaiku microblogs :P Jan 22 21:41:17 Stskeepie: got a partly done email in drafts right now... interrupted... Jan 22 21:41:21 does 770 have bme? Jan 22 21:42:02 johnx: think so Jan 22 21:42:15 random google indicates yes Jan 22 21:42:18 lcuk: No, this does not work Jan 22 21:42:25 lcuk: can't read such a file Jan 22 21:43:05 RST38h, you can't change the webserver config in any way? Jan 22 21:43:12 Hi ... Jan 22 21:43:21 hi arocs Jan 22 21:43:29 the principle does work RST38h im sorry if your specific doesnt :$ i dont know any details to help more than i have im afraid Jan 22 21:44:04 Yesterday i saw that there is a new "distro" for N800 called MER ... What stage is this distro ? Jan 22 21:44:12 IIRC, the idea is keep it under the webroot, but have the webserver deny direct access to that directory to someone requesting it Jan 22 21:44:35 qwerty12_N800: thx Jan 22 21:44:38 arocs: http://trac.tspre.org/meiz/screenshots/Screenshot-2.png for instance :) Jan 22 21:44:46 is the DSP task loader closed? Jan 22 21:44:58 johnx: osso-dsp-loader is open AFAIK Jan 22 21:45:08 Now i am installing it to my internal sd .... Jan 22 21:45:13 arocs: it runs on 770, n8x0, zaurus, x86 Jan 22 21:45:14 Let's see ... Jan 22 21:45:15 arocs, just starting to become interesting to people interested in testing or helping develop Jan 22 21:45:38 It is a very interesing project ... i think ... Jan 22 21:46:28 johnx: I can but would prefer not to Jan 22 21:46:55 johnx: the other admin has got certain behavioral problems I would not like to encounter with Jan 22 21:47:03 RST38h, been a long time since I maintained a web server, but I can't think of any other way to do it...which *doesn't* mean it can't be done Jan 22 21:47:19 oh I am sure it can be done, people do it all the time Jan 22 21:48:21 RST38h, and it's done by configuring a path in the config, not some magic permissions Jan 22 21:48:41 (80% assuredness factor) :) Jan 22 21:48:48 Sound is working in MER? Jan 22 21:48:54 arocs, nope :) Jan 22 21:49:26 arocs: we cannot distribute firmwares with closed source things just yet, but we are in good progress of discussing with Nokia on a way to do it :) Jan 22 21:49:40 arocs: Mer, btw :) Jan 22 21:49:43 Sounds good Jan 22 21:49:55 repository.maemo.org couldn't resolved inside scratchbox Jan 22 21:50:20 /etc/resolve.conf points to the correct DNS-server Jan 22 21:50:24 rAdic: /etc/nsswitch.conf + /etc/resolv.conf Jan 22 21:50:26 radic, don't make a new target, DIABLO_ARMEL o ks fine Jan 22 21:50:31 *works Jan 22 21:50:41 prelimery wishlist - https://wiki.maemo.org/Mer_Wishlist Jan 22 21:50:45 If nsswitch doesn't say hosts: files dns Jan 22 21:50:52 Resolv is ignored Jan 22 21:51:25 Umm .. i have installed mer ... starting .... ;) Jan 22 21:52:06 arocs: hehe, good luck, hope you installed bootmenu and such :P Jan 22 21:52:17 yes , with bootmenu Jan 22 21:52:45 johnx: think i'll edit it a bit tomorrow, as there could be some of the closed source parts of Nokia that could be nice to include Jan 22 21:52:50 i thought gizmo was OSS; heh Jan 22 21:53:01 qwerty12_N800: too late Jan 22 21:53:13 arocs: 0.6? Jan 22 21:53:31 timelE61i: the line is included, but it dosn't works Jan 22 21:53:59 I have yes ... Jan 22 21:54:10 arocs: what tablet? Jan 22 21:54:15 Now i am in the Choose device name screen proccess Jan 22 21:54:19 N800 Jan 22 21:54:25 arocs: woo :) at least it boots Jan 22 21:54:45 For now it is working ... slow but working Jan 22 21:54:59 Cool! I know the 770 needs a newer image for that part Jan 22 21:55:18 arocs: yeah, our omapfb driver isn't that fast just yet :) Jan 22 21:56:12 * lcuk adds more bacon to it Jan 22 21:56:42 i wonder if thats the magic ingredient in wd40: bacon grease Jan 22 21:56:54 I have connectted to my home wifi router ... that is good start ... !!! Jan 22 21:57:06 * timelE61i frowns Jan 22 21:57:17 sorry, i need to order tickets for fosdem Jan 22 21:57:24 when is it? Jan 22 21:57:49 What i see is that it is only maemopad application installed ... ins't it Jan 22 21:57:51 * lcuk might try to do Jan 22 21:57:54 http://maemo.org/news/events/ Jan 22 21:58:12 timelE61i: to see fremantle on a beagleboard? ;) Jan 22 21:58:30 arocs: yes, initial image, next image at 1st february should include an application manager Jan 22 21:58:38 arocs: you can ssh into your tablet over wifi Jan 22 21:58:44 and use apt-get Jan 22 21:58:50 ok Jan 22 21:58:59 ouchy, i might not have anything ready by then Jan 22 21:59:00 username root and password what you chose in installer :) Jan 22 21:59:09 So it is possible to install programs .. .? Jan 22 21:59:27 yes Jan 22 21:59:31 apt-get zenity for instance :) Jan 22 21:59:38 apt-get install midori, i mean Jan 22 21:59:59 ok Jan 22 22:00:04 (the menu point might first appear after a reboot.) Jan 22 22:02:25 Any web browser working in mer? Jan 22 22:02:43 midori works well Jan 22 22:03:41 I am installing it , but get stuck in the apt-get ip : 91.189.88.36 ... no download Jan 22 22:04:00 does it fail to connect or give you a 404? Jan 22 22:04:05 now downloading ... Jan 22 22:04:17 arocs: there's a problem with mer repository but ubuntu repository should work.. Jan 22 22:04:44 What about a spreadsheet or abiword Jan 22 22:04:53 apt-get install abiword :) Jan 22 22:05:02 That is easy ... Jan 22 22:05:12 we have all applications ported to ubuntu on arm, so Jan 22 22:05:15 Stskeepie: abiword is ported? Jan 22 22:05:23 ok Jan 22 22:05:24 I believe ubuntu's abiword should work. we'll be pulling over more maemo-ized stuff over time though Jan 22 22:05:25 radic: we don't even have to. it integrates quite well into hildon Jan 22 22:08:12 i would show a screenshot but my server is down right now :) Jan 22 22:08:45 I have installed mer in a 8gb sd card ... Is it possible to install mer in only 3 GB of this card .... ? Jan 22 22:09:05 arocs: yes, through the advanced mode, but it is a bit wonky at times Jan 22 22:09:05 * johnx makes coffee and a package for xserver-kdrive-xfbdev Jan 22 22:09:25 And the rest of the sd-card for fat ? Jan 22 22:09:53 arocs, do you have a linux desktop? Jan 22 22:10:05 yes Jan 22 22:10:18 Ubuntu Jan 22 22:10:22 reboot into maemo, and use gparted to resize the partition, then add another after it Jan 22 22:10:34 system -> admin -> partition editor Jan 22 22:11:00 errr...reboot into maemo, plug tablet into desktop via usb, *on the desktop* use gparted Jan 22 22:11:09 <- needs that coffee, stat! Jan 22 22:12:07 johnx: Mer_Wishlist should probably be moved to Mer/Wishlist Jan 22 22:12:22 * b-man trashes gentoo install on his N800 to re-create a ubuntu rootfs.tar.gz because original tar.gz that he uploaded got corrupted somehow Jan 22 22:12:37 johnx: Or even Mer/Proprietary_reuse_wishlist Jan 22 22:12:45 Jaffa, would you mind? and/or what is the trick to moving things? Jan 22 22:12:55 I am new with N800 , previously i have got a pocketpc Dell axim x51v ... But ... what i know is that inside omap processor is a 3d accelerator .. would be possible in the future to use it in MER ? Jan 22 22:12:59 Can someone w/ microb try something for me? :) Jan 22 22:13:00 * Jaffa has no idea; I'm going to click the "Move" button ;-) Jan 22 22:13:14 arocs: sadly only on OMAP3 probably Jan 22 22:13:24 arocs: MBX drivers has not been publicized Jan 22 22:13:30 (long discussion) Jan 22 22:13:48 i see .. Jan 22 22:13:49 johnx: http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer/Nokia_wishlist Jan 22 22:14:29 sts: yeah sure, why not? :) Jan 22 22:14:29 arocs: next nokia device has 3d acceleration Jan 22 22:15:22 sts: all the better to render vaporware :) Jan 22 22:15:40 But what i do not understand is that having 3d in the n800 , what happens to nokia that it is not use it ...!!! Jan 22 22:16:01 arocs: because it costs a lot of money to get a open source driver, probably :) Jan 22 22:16:06 arocs: and we're doing quite okay without it Jan 22 22:16:11 i mean, we're not playing quake 3 Jan 22 22:16:37 arocs: but trust me, this discussion about 3d on n8x0 has been going on for ages :) Jan 22 22:16:57 yes , in my x51v i have got video accelerated by the 3d proccessor ... not only in games .. in videos Jan 22 22:16:57 (and never led anywhere) Jan 22 22:17:44 Sorry , i am new member of a second hand n800 ... Now .. i am not using my old x51v .. only my n800 ... Jan 22 22:18:16 hehe, quite addictive little buggers they are :) Jan 22 22:18:21 sO... No one w/ microb willing to try something for me? :( Jan 22 22:19:09 timelE61i: what do you need tested? Jan 22 22:19:36 1. Google.com/search?q=hel+to+bru+2/6+to+2/8&hl=en Jan 22 22:19:50 Click the expedia special search Jan 22 22:20:18 does anyone have any very short c code which shows how to programmatically bring up the hildon OSK? Jan 22 22:21:08 lcuk: mxr garage osso-xterm Jan 22 22:21:14 Search it :) Jan 22 22:21:34 timelE61i: and what am i looking for? Jan 22 22:21:36 mmmnmm thanks Jan 22 22:21:49 sts: did the search load? Jan 22 22:21:54 * lcuk searches for something he doesnt know the name of Jan 22 22:22:16 Try hildon :) Jan 22 22:22:29 timelE61i: not sure i'm getting the expedia special search Jan 22 22:22:34 osso-xterm shouldn't have many osso bits :) Jan 22 22:23:00 Sts:the special search recognizes you're doing an airport path Jan 22 22:23:10 Thanks for all ... Jan 22 22:23:14 See you ... Jan 22 22:23:18 timelE61i, nop, sorry, not for me :P Jan 22 22:23:33 Prefills the orig/dest+dates and has links for a bunch of links for search engines Jan 22 22:23:58 lcuk, a quick flick through : http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail//maemo-developers/2009-January/053844.html may help Jan 22 22:24:54 Sts: gah... Jan 22 22:25:32 oh oops Jan 22 22:25:49 1. Google.com/search?q=fly+hel+to+bru+2/6+to+2/8&hl=en Jan 22 22:25:56 All right, a few more motions and I will have a virtual keyboard in Speccy and fMSX on Maemo Jan 22 22:25:58 * timelE61i forgot the verb Jan 22 22:26:45 RST38h, I'll be in your debt forever for vkb in fMSX :) Jan 22 22:27:11 sts: try again ? :) Jan 22 22:27:16 qwerty12_N800, :) thank you spot on. it shows it prefers a gtk window Jan 22 22:27:29 * lcuk curses and gets back to his keyboard ;) Jan 22 22:27:45 :) Jan 22 22:29:25 hi guys Jan 22 22:29:42 I would need some help in compiling with maemo SDK... Jan 22 22:30:40 how may I start compiling? Jan 22 22:30:53 there's a large amount of training material on the maemo.org site Jan 22 22:31:25 I know Jan 22 22:31:33 right now I study http://maemovmware.garage.maemo.org/README.html Jan 22 22:31:56 but... I just want to implement the php5-mysql which is a lib Jan 22 22:32:03 and doesn't need GUI Jan 22 22:32:19 isn't there anyway just to compile the source code from debian? Jan 22 22:32:24 *any way Jan 22 22:34:23 Stskeepie can you help a little bit more? Jan 22 22:34:43 if you write my academic paper on pervasive positioning within the next 6 hours, sure. Jan 22 22:35:16 ... :( Jan 22 22:35:19 too bad.... Jan 22 22:35:22 just 1 think Jan 22 22:35:30 what is the target file Jan 22 22:35:36 that I need to make Jan 22 22:35:39 armel? Jan 22 22:35:46 yes. Jan 22 22:35:48 (in order to run the package in N810) Jan 22 22:35:51 ok Jan 22 22:35:56 and at the final step Jan 22 22:36:09 a file named aaa. (suffix?) Jan 22 22:36:16 would be produced? Jan 22 22:36:23 deb.. Jan 22 22:36:42 but the ordinary deb file for armel doesn't work... Jan 22 22:37:22 * Stskeepie grabs the bacon chips Jan 22 22:38:04 http://packages.debian.org/sid/armel/php5-mysql/download Jan 22 22:38:11 this one isn't enough :( Jan 22 22:38:19 what else should I do? Jan 22 22:38:54 run mysql on server, use when in wifi range :D Jan 22 22:39:02 I know that... Jan 22 22:39:11 I already have done it Jan 22 22:39:22 Matroska is an irritating container. Jan 22 22:39:29 but the mobile device should be able Jan 22 22:39:46 to run in a non-wifi environment, as well Jan 22 22:40:41 lcuk can you help me a little? Jan 22 22:40:45 the same is true for the operator as well, its not something we do often, normally database work on the device is done with sqlite. development assumes you are a knowledgable person who understands compilation and building apps, scratchbox has lots of information and documentation Jan 22 22:40:58 timelE61i: very annoying flash banner Jan 22 22:41:16 trying without FTW Jan 22 22:41:42 timelE61i: non-stop finnair 372$ Jan 22 22:41:57 lcuk you are right, but in greek universities the Professor just assign the jobs.... (NO help) Jan 22 22:42:12 sts: when we tried w/ microb Jan 22 22:42:19 we got a page that never finished loading Jan 22 22:42:20 and even more.... even himself doesn't know the difficulty of the assignment Jan 22 22:42:21 in english universities the students study to learn Jan 22 22:42:54 timelyx: weird, works fine here Jan 22 22:43:02 I had to learn maemo compiling in less than 2 weeks.... Jan 22 22:43:06 sounds good? Jan 22 22:43:36 (for me it's impossible... but I just try to accomplish...) Jan 22 22:43:57 2 weeks is plenty to read the stuff off www.maemo.org & www.google.com Jan 22 22:44:07 if you are a developer used to the language and build methods of linux and creating apps and knowing the libraries, then 2 weeks is a reasonable time. however if you dont know or understand anything about general linux building methods or the languages or libraries you are using it could take a lot longer Jan 22 22:44:52 I am not a developer, and also I have extra lessons to study as well Jan 22 22:44:52 oR you could python :) Jan 22 22:45:19 + use Jan 22 22:45:38 Jake42-2, are you the only one in your class who is doing this assignment? Jan 22 22:45:45 So, no longer compiling mysql? =) Jan 22 22:45:49 ie: teamwork Jan 22 22:45:51 I spill time Jan 22 22:45:57 RST38h no Jan 22 22:46:08 Right. Bed time. Work in progress for new Mer homepage: http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Jaffa/Mer_homepage - anything which is currently on http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer which isn't on that page will be moving to new pages (Mer/About and Mer/Get_involved and Mer/Development) Jan 22 22:46:09 I want to go as far as it is possible Jan 22 22:46:12 Good. Jan 22 22:46:30 so.... Jan 22 22:46:31 Jake42-2, then please open #gentoo and get moving :) Jan 22 22:46:39 Jaffa, that looks nice! Jan 22 22:46:39 ?????????? Jan 22 22:46:58 lcuk why???? I don't understand... Jan 22 22:47:01 johnx: the "Development" button will change colour, cos it clashes with the blue of the logo. Jan 22 22:47:17 Jaffa, nice work :) Jan 22 22:47:23 Jaffa: we need something to deal with participants or something Jan 22 22:47:35 as we have a participants list on the page right now Jan 22 22:47:47 maybe a "People" or something :P Jan 22 22:47:48 Stskeepie: yes, that'll be on one of the sub-pages (or perhaps two) Jan 22 22:47:51 k Jan 22 22:48:08 A summary list of people might not be a bad idea, I'll ponder. Jan 22 22:48:11 does anyone knows why the http://packages.debian.org/sid/armel/php5-mysql/download isn't good for N810???? Jan 22 22:48:23 No content will be lost :) Jan 22 22:48:27 Jake42-2, because the binary is for debian, not maemo. Jan 22 22:48:36 * Stskeepie believes in making the list of people at least a sub page, as recognition for the work done is good, and may be used as a motivator :P Jan 22 22:48:38 Jaffa, "people involved" for e.g Jan 22 22:48:55 Jake42-2, why did you quite using easy debian? that's the quickest route to reach your goal Jan 22 22:49:01 Stskeepie: indeed Jan 22 22:49:08 johnx I don't know how Jan 22 22:49:10 as in, i'd be able to point to Mer on my CV and say, I worked on this Jan 22 22:49:13 give me some directions Jan 22 22:49:24 Jake42-2, this isn't my project. I already quit college Jan 22 22:49:38 ***omepage - anything which is currently on http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer which isn't on that page will be moving to new pages (Mer/About and Mer/Get_involved and Mer/Development) *** Jan 22 22:49:39 :( Jan 22 22:49:47 alright Jan 22 22:49:54 you told me to install the php Jan 22 22:50:09 and all the staff on easy debian Jan 22 22:50:10 ok... Jan 22 22:50:17 but the reposotory is blank Jan 22 22:50:19 Jaffa: besides that, looks brilliant : Jan 22 22:50:20 :) Jan 22 22:50:26 how should I stuff it? Jan 22 22:51:17 Jake42-2, install the latest easy debian 'turbo edition.' it has the sources.list setup Jan 22 22:51:37 a index of all pages about Mer will be useful too Jan 22 22:51:55 I installed it Jan 22 22:52:14 but it is empty Jan 22 22:52:21 Jake42-2, then something went wrong Jan 22 22:52:31 (does it "use" the same repo as maemo?) Jan 22 22:52:35 no Jan 22 22:52:41 [is there any way to recall the repo?] Jan 22 22:53:07 try adding this to sources.list: Jan 22 22:53:35 deb http://ftp.gr.debian.org/debian etch main contrib non-free Jan 22 22:55:54 in easy debian Jan 22 22:56:04 which combination is the ESC ? Jan 22 22:56:30 the "back arrow" button on the left of your n810, next to the screen Jan 22 22:57:23 aaaaaaaaa yes... right... Jan 22 22:58:30 now Jan 22 22:58:36 apt-get update Jan 22 22:58:37 ? Jan 22 22:59:26 yes Jan 22 22:59:47 E: some index files failed to download, they have been ignored, or old ones used instead Jan 22 22:59:54 is it "normal" to happen? Jan 22 22:59:57 no Jan 22 23:00:46 my sources.list Jan 22 23:00:50 that's probably not the right line for sources.list or you didn't put it in quite right Jan 22 23:00:53 has only the one line you told me Jan 22 23:01:08 try removing the gr. Jan 22 23:01:38 or ya'know look it up somewhere Jan 22 23:03:30 some errors again... Jan 22 23:03:34 sisto: It shipped today! Much quicker than I expected. Jan 22 23:03:44 how may I unistall easy debian Jan 22 23:03:48 and reinstall it again? Jan 22 23:04:35 Jake42-2, there should be info in the thread Jan 22 23:04:52 rm -r /debian Jan 22 23:04:54 isn't enough? Jan 22 23:05:12 I don't know. if you know how to get rid of it, why are you asking me? Jan 22 23:06:31 hmmm Jan 22 23:06:50 Is there any way to "format" the whole N810 Jan 22 23:07:05 and to recall it to the manufacturer condition? Jan 22 23:07:59 yes Jan 22 23:08:01 ~flashing Jan 22 23:08:02 extra, extra, read all about it, flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware Jan 22 23:08:19 but that doesn't remove the contents of the internal memory card Jan 22 23:09:54 ok Jan 22 23:10:00 I'll search about it Jan 22 23:10:02 now.. Jan 22 23:10:15 let's say I install again the easy debian Jan 22 23:10:27 does it support every package of debian etch? Jan 22 23:10:33 yes Jan 22 23:10:52 REAAAAAAAAALLY???? Jan 22 23:11:05 (I would be able to install LAMP????) Jan 22 23:11:28 yes. that's why I tried to convince you to use it Jan 22 23:11:37 then you gave up, so I tried to help you with lighttpd Jan 22 23:12:04 I tried many times Jan 22 23:12:15 if you give up every time you run into a small problem you won't get anywhere Jan 22 23:12:21 in fact I was so happy when I saw on youtube the easy debian install Jan 22 23:12:22 pick *one track* and try and follow through Jan 22 23:12:50 I will include the #maemo Jan 22 23:12:56 as my refferals :D Jan 22 23:13:47 heh Jan 22 23:14:24 so... Jan 22 23:14:34 I'll try to flash the N810 Jan 22 23:14:42 is there any case to be bricked? Jan 22 23:14:50 no Jan 22 23:15:30 the problem you reffered with the internal memory? Jan 22 23:16:04 delete the files on it or format it before you flash Jan 22 23:16:45 ok Jan 22 23:16:48 I'll try it Jan 22 23:16:51 thanx a lot!! Jan 22 23:16:58 LinuxCode: hooray! Jan 22 23:17:03 LinuxCode: sorry Jan 22 23:17:06 ;-D Jan 22 23:17:07 bbbb Jan 22 23:17:19 LinuxCode: lol Jan 22 23:17:32 glad the device is on its way though Jan 22 23:17:42 although i dont know what for a device Jan 22 23:18:05 as long as its not nuclear and being sent to his neighborhood Jan 22 23:18:17 im happy for you Jan 22 23:18:18 ;-p Jan 22 23:18:29 LinuxCode: not me Jan 22 23:18:41 hello Jan 22 23:18:44 i Jan 22 23:18:46 linuxhacker wanted to buy an n810 Jan 22 23:18:51 ahh sweet Jan 22 23:19:00 and i recommended him a site Jan 22 23:19:01 jr.com Jan 22 23:19:03 arent we all waiting for the 3g version though ? Jan 22 23:19:12 and he purchased it there but it was backordered Jan 22 23:19:16 so he had to wait Jan 22 23:19:18 ahh i see Jan 22 23:19:25 i need a program to record with nokia 770 Jan 22 23:19:25 ;-} Jan 22 23:19:30 3g when?!?!??! Jan 22 23:19:36 i want Jan 22 23:19:45 sisto, rx-51/52 ? cant remmeber will have 3g Jan 22 23:19:57 ari confimred that there will be a 3g version Jan 22 23:20:14 what is rx-51/52? Jan 22 23:20:18 there was an article in LinuxFormat UK Jan 22 23:20:39 nice Jan 22 23:20:43 cant remember if it was 51 or 52 ..but apparently those are the model numbers when they havent got a final name yet Jan 22 23:20:57 * lcuk shaves LinuxCode's eyebrow Jan 22 23:20:59 i think GeneralAntilles mentioned it Jan 22 23:21:04 lcuk, hi Jan 22 23:21:11 ello Jan 22 23:21:16 how you keeping mate ? Jan 22 23:21:17 hows it goin Jan 22 23:21:19 haha Jan 22 23:21:21 jinx Jan 22 23:21:21 im good i think Jan 22 23:21:34 not gettin enough sleep though Jan 22 23:21:37 im looking at making fedora-business-card templates atm Jan 22 23:21:40 sec Jan 22 23:21:58 LinuxCode: you put me in a dilema Jan 22 23:22:08 sisto, I know what you will say! Jan 22 23:22:30 * lcuk yawns Jan 22 23:22:36 lcuk, want to add templates for the creator so people in Germany and the Uk have a place to get prints Jan 22 23:22:38 yes Jan 22 23:22:49 lcuk, hows your project going ? Jan 22 23:23:18 i'm traveling to USA on february and was planning on buying an n810 Jan 22 23:23:29 sisto, are you based in Europe ? Jan 22 23:23:31 but i don't know when i will have another chance to buy a device Jan 22 23:23:35 in south america Jan 22 23:23:38 ohh i see Jan 22 23:23:49 i heard they rip you guys off Jan 22 23:23:58 yea Jan 22 23:24:15 n95 used to cost 1000 dollars when it was out Jan 22 23:24:38 well I expect the n900 or whatever it will be in the end Jan 22 23:24:44 will be more costly ... Jan 22 23:24:54 patent restrictions for components Jan 22 23:24:59 but those devices don't come here Jan 22 23:25:01 costs money for licenses Jan 22 23:25:22 so i have to take the opportunity and buy one Jan 22 23:25:38 n810 is kinda cheap now i think Jan 22 23:25:44 i saw it for 250 bucks Jan 22 23:25:46 new Jan 22 23:26:27 LinuxCode: which 1 do u have? Jan 22 23:26:46 LinuxCode, those are the model numbers period. ;) Jan 22 23:26:54 RX-51 Jan 22 23:27:01 and it'll be the only model so far as we know. Jan 22 23:27:18 here: http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080918-nokia-unveils-maemo-roadmap-plans-for-3g-internet-tablet.html Jan 22 23:27:24 nice! Jan 22 23:27:39 http://maemo.org/community/council/community_highlights_for_december_2008-part_i-january_2009-part_ii/ Jan 22 23:28:00 "Nokia has become today the first to contribute code on HSPA cellular connectivity for OMAP3 processor to Linux kernel," Jan 22 23:28:06 it seems it will have an omap cpu Jan 22 23:28:11 instead of ARM Jan 22 23:28:15 Er Jan 22 23:28:18 OMAP is ARM Jan 22 23:28:21 It's what we have now Jan 22 23:28:25 and it's what we've always had. Jan 22 23:28:25 what?!!??! Jan 22 23:28:42 crazy Jan 22 23:28:46 :) Jan 22 23:28:47 http://focus.ti.com/general/docs/wtbu/wtbuproductcontent.tsp?templateId=6123&navigationId=12643&contentId=14649 Jan 22 23:28:48 LinuxCode, very well indeed :) Jan 22 23:28:57 Hrm, OMAP36x Jan 22 23:28:59 That's new. Jan 22 23:29:10 growing in confidence each day i straighten something out Jan 22 23:29:44 OMAP3440 = 800 mhz Jan 22 23:29:47 sweet Jan 22 23:29:53 please use that one :P Jan 22 23:29:56 sisto, that's a MID CPU Jan 22 23:30:03 Way more power hungry than the OMAP3430 Jan 22 23:30:20 sisto, why - what would you do with all that power? Jan 22 23:30:31 Hrm Jan 22 23:30:32 take over the world? Jan 22 23:30:49 OMAP36x may very well be what they push for ARM netbooks. . . . Jan 22 23:31:16 sisto, that 800mhz is faster than my full tabletpc runs Jan 22 23:31:31 i want a small device with a long life Jan 22 23:31:54 not a pocketwarmer Jan 22 23:32:04 how many mhz does the OMAP3430 have? Jan 22 23:32:06 lcuk++ Jan 22 23:32:06 though thats a cool mode Jan 22 23:32:18 600MHz Jan 22 23:32:20 more than enough :) Jan 22 23:32:26 this 400mhz does me quite nicely Jan 22 23:32:27 just like the iphone Jan 22 23:32:34 sisto, pfft Jan 22 23:32:36 Screw the iPhone Jan 22 23:32:39 Cortex, baby. Jan 22 23:32:55 can i invoke rule 34 or whatever it is on that gan Jan 22 23:33:01 We're in the ballpark of twice as fast as the iPhone. Jan 22 23:33:12 I'm baaack :) Jan 22 23:33:14 "or whatever it is" Jan 22 23:33:17 this is the iphone: http://www.arm.com/products/CPUs/ARM1176.html Jan 22 23:33:19 Like you don't know. :P Jan 22 23:33:29 :D Jan 22 23:33:37 GeneralAntilles: wow Jan 22 23:33:51 Cortax A8 is 2-3x faster than ARM11 Jan 22 23:34:13 So a 600MHz Cortax A8 is approximately equivalent to a >1GHz ARM11 on average. Jan 22 23:34:22 I'm starting to hate a bit russian tablet forums Jan 22 23:34:26 careful with those benchmarks cowboy :P Jan 22 23:34:41 hi wazd_n800 Jan 22 23:34:42 sisto, the problem is, with ANY cpu speed you can overload the processor and make it slow, far cry etc show this time and again. now recall computers of old which were fast and slick and responsive. they did that on no more than a few mhz Jan 22 23:35:14 qwerty12_N800, hey, have you hildonized x-chat btw?) Jan 22 23:35:19 you simply should not rate the speed of a computer on its cpu speed Jan 22 23:35:31 johnx, careful what? Jan 22 23:35:42 wazd_n800, it's been done (but not by me :)) Jan 22 23:35:55 that means the iphone just has a very responsive UI Jan 22 23:35:57 johnx, these numbers are corroborated by a TI engineer and several other people who would know. Jan 22 23:35:59 GeneralAntilles, with giving general benchmark numbers :) Jan 22 23:36:06 GeneralAntilles, for *benchmarks only* Jan 22 23:36:11 qwerty12_N800, oh, I thought somehow that you did it) Jan 22 23:36:18 Approximate equivalents on average Jan 22 23:36:24 I dunno what's to take issue with. Jan 22 23:36:25 lol Jan 22 23:36:48 fan made benchmarks :P Jan 22 23:36:53 just saying, I doubt everything is actually going to run 2-3 times faster Jan 22 23:36:56 lcuk, sure, but people who know can derive useful things based on those numbers. Jan 22 23:37:01 sisto: iPhone spends lots of HP on it's UI Jan 22 23:37:15 is this a TI thing or is it the core that is 2-3x? Jan 22 23:37:18 johnx, :) can you be certain Jan 22 23:37:20 wazd_n800: HP = health points? Jan 22 23:37:28 Freescale'sgot a Cortex-A8 too Jan 22 23:37:41 sisto, hewlet-packards xD Jan 22 23:37:46 * Stskeepie ponders idly to call on the cops with the guy who has been standing outside the apartment buildings here and threatening some girl loudly the last weeks or so Jan 22 23:37:58 haha Jan 22 23:38:01 sisto, horse power :) Jan 22 23:38:11 Stskeepie, O_o do you know the girl? Jan 22 23:38:39 anything to listen files ogg ? Jan 22 23:38:51 wazd_n800: i don't want to sound like a mac fan but there's a lot to learn from the iphone Jan 22 23:39:02 please don't bash me for that :P Jan 22 23:39:12 haha Jan 22 23:39:24 Stskeepie, I'd recommend throwing a brick but then you'd be arrested and the future of Mer would be a bit blurry to say the least. Jan 22 23:39:24 sisto: like what?) lack of copy/paste?) Jan 22 23:39:32 sisto, a lot to learn and a lot to avoid. yes Jan 22 23:39:35 wazd_n800: well not that Jan 22 23:39:50 sisto: just kidding) Jan 22 23:40:06 there's a lot to avoid yes... like the stupid app store Jan 22 23:40:20 sisto, iphone is a great "average consumer" device Jan 22 23:40:20 main thing to avoid is the complete segregation of apps Jan 22 23:40:22 the duplicate functionality scandal Jan 22 23:40:23 etc Jan 22 23:40:24 such a *&$%ing pain Jan 22 23:40:46 it's average because it's horrible in some ways and really impressive in others Jan 22 23:40:59 so you get a nice even mean :) Jan 22 23:42:02 it sucks that you have to jailbreak it and such Jan 22 23:42:19 the greatest thing i've found in the iphone is materials (first gen) Jan 22 23:42:25 but i read reviews saying that the g1 is on par with the iphone Jan 22 23:42:30 johnx, no, but when someone threatens to mash someone's head in in quite explicit words, i probably don't need to :P Jan 22 23:42:38 Stskeepie, call the cops Jan 22 23:42:39 glass screen is awesome Jan 22 23:42:47 johnx: yeah.. except the guy left again Jan 22 23:43:34 i saw the g2 though and it seems it's going to be worse... they are going to get rid of the physical keyboard -_- Jan 22 23:43:56 sisto, I think it's not a successor but an alternative Jan 22 23:44:01 Stskeepie, wth with yo nick?) Gf in da house?) Jan 22 23:44:14 wazd_n800: my irssi server down :P Jan 22 23:44:18 johnx: probably Jan 22 23:44:29 what i don't like about the g2 is that it's pretty ugly Jan 22 23:44:40 Stskeepie, yeye, really) Jan 22 23:45:14 wazd_n800: and gf first coming back wednesday Jan 22 23:45:34 I really want something with metal+glass+leather :) Jan 22 23:46:58 Stskeepie, oh, goodbye Mer then xD Jan 22 23:47:02 has any one of you tried android on the n810? Jan 22 23:47:28 wazd_n800: hehe, no, she is good at giving me space :) Jan 22 23:48:25 natural materials are true, plastic is false Jan 22 23:48:59 sisto: me not Jan 22 23:49:21 Stskeepie, heh. I know the feeling. my wife is amused by me hacking on stuff :) Jan 22 23:49:27 hacking as a spectator sport? Jan 22 23:49:55 johnx: i let her have her the west wing addiction and other series, she lets me hack :P Jan 22 23:50:40 s/west wing/stargate atlantis/ and you've got the same picture here :) Jan 22 23:51:29 I've made a pencil portrait of my gf, so I do what i want) Jan 22 23:51:39 glass isn't natural Jan 22 23:51:57 mavhc: orly?) Jan 22 23:52:02 mavhc, sure it is. comes from beaches :) Jan 22 23:52:03 is there a site that reviews phones (GSM only) on how well they work tethered? Jan 22 23:52:37 i fell Jan 22 23:52:53 when your iphone is made from beach glass, cow skin, and ore, we can talk Jan 22 23:52:56 maybe google will answer it?) Jan 22 23:53:27 mavhc, aw cmon, you know what i mean) Jan 22 23:53:54 I was asking... has any one of you tried android on the n810? Jan 22 23:53:58 plastic doesn't smash, next Jan 22 23:54:02 sisto1: look at nitdroid project Jan 22 23:54:13 Stskeepie: will do thx Jan 22 23:54:37 mavhc, it ccracks) Jan 22 23:54:42 it'd be nice to dual boot android and maemo on my future n810 :D:D:D:D Jan 22 23:55:59 aluminium allows to make device thinner Jan 22 23:56:32 sisto1: it'd be nice if it had fricking lasers too Jan 22 23:56:58 fireun: what!? how do you install lasers on it? :P Jan 22 23:57:05 i need that lol Jan 22 23:57:32 sisto, check Nitlasers project xD Jan 22 23:57:50 * timelE61i is going to fosdem, kinda Jan 22 23:58:07 this? http://www.indiastudychannel.com/resources/10316-NIT-Short-term-Course-Laser-Processing-Materials.aspx Jan 22 23:59:20 mœmo Jan 22 23:59:22 sisto1: dual booting android and maemo on a future existing n810 should be about as easy as adding lasers Jan 23 00:00:10 but thats going to have to wait, I have a paper outline due in two hours and I havnt even started it. Jan 23 00:00:25 gotta embrace procrastination Jan 23 00:01:27 fireun: here's a how to for android maemo dual boot: http://www.android-review.com/news/Android-Running-on-Nokia-N810-Stey-by-stey.html Jan 23 00:02:23 in the future? Jan 23 00:02:27 fireun: i have a nice deadline on an article report that's midnight thursday in the latest timezone that has it.. :P Jan 23 00:02:28 wheres time travel involved? Jan 23 00:03:05 Stskeepie: I'm not even convinced about my article topic yet, so... Jan 23 00:03:58 at least I closed my browser Jan 23 00:04:12 now if I could only step away from the keyboard... hmm,nope that didnt work. Jan 23 00:07:24 well, gotta go sleep, cya guys Jan 23 00:07:32 'night wazd_n800 Jan 23 00:09:33 * FireFox starts to prepair a Ubuntu-N8x0-rootfs_ver2.tar.gz rootstrap for ubuntu guide - because original image got corrupt :P Jan 23 00:11:10 FireFox: one thing about people saying an image is corrupt - their network/disk/ram might corrupt their downloads Jan 23 00:11:10 so check it by downloading it yourself and md5sum'ing it Jan 23 00:11:11 thanks, i'll try Jan 23 00:11:40 i'll reflash my 810 2 days ago, by nokia tool, work well. Jan 23 00:11:57 but so far two people have said that thay have gotten an EOF error with the original image. Jan 23 00:13:21 * FireFox has also noticed that the tar.gz that was on the server is also 100mb smaller than the original image Jan 23 00:14:38 Stskeepie: repository.mer.tspre.org down? :) Jan 23 00:15:50 * FireFox is getting an error with apt-get update :| Jan 23 00:17:52 FireFox: yessir. and it's snowing and quite windy and wet outside, so i'm not going outside right now :P Jan 23 00:18:39 plus, crazy people wander by your building and threaten other people O_o Jan 23 00:19:05 johnx: stuff like that happens very rarely :P Jan 23 00:19:31 nah, happens to 100% of the people I know in Denmark Jan 23 00:19:34 hehe Jan 23 00:23:00 Stskeeps: hehe, it's no longer sub-zero out here but we have 13" of snow on the ground ;) Jan 23 00:23:41 EDIT: stskeepie :) Jan 23 00:24:26 ah, good, i just thought my server was online and that kinda scared me Jan 23 00:24:27 :P Jan 23 00:24:40 hehe Jan 23 00:26:12 jesus, 10pt size vs 12pt size really screws one's thinking up Jan 23 00:27:03 it is -rough- to get through a page Jan 23 00:28:12 Two-column 9pt IEEE format! Jan 23 00:29:13 derf: 9? percom is 10pt Jan 23 00:29:15 .. i think Jan 23 00:29:57 It varies. Some let you go as low as 9. Jan 23 00:31:12 i have a silly study group within pervasive positioning where we're supposed to write an article and target it towards some conference and their targets for a long paper.. i'm the only a MSc student and the others are phd students. they are obviously able to drag in their current PhD activities for their papers, whereas i have to start from scratch. Jan 23 00:32:18 * lcuk smiles Jan 23 00:34:00 yeah, had that problem with papers: I'd write too damn concisely right from the start Jan 23 00:34:27 me too, i don't have much filler. Jan 23 00:34:33 i loathe filler. Jan 23 00:34:54 it comes from using IM/IRC/forums I think...or maybe just having a technical mind Jan 23 00:37:31 (rasomehow got involved in a short 12 minute movie that a play grup from a university was creating - he's the villain Jan 23 00:37:54 ahhh!!!!! i hate hildon-input-method Jan 23 00:38:39 FireFox: i occasionally ponder if i would have liked acting. Jan 23 00:39:10 but now that my memory is shot, i doubt that's going to happen ever :) Jan 23 00:40:47 * FireFox wonders how good of a villain he would be...... MWHAHAHA!!! >:) Jan 23 00:40:57 i'm surprised they didn't lock me up yet. Jan 23 00:40:57 :P Jan 23 00:41:25 lock you up? :) Jan 23 00:42:54 * johnx pokes at getting zaurus hardware support into nice ubuntu source packages Jan 23 00:45:13 brb Jan 23 00:50:54 the sharprom works! Jan 23 00:51:53 well, yes. but working = boring Jan 23 00:52:00 that means there's no fun to be had Jan 23 00:53:39 doesn't the lack of onboard WiFi and bluetooth bug you? Jan 23 00:53:58 I have cf wifi Jan 23 00:54:06 but that sticks out Jan 23 00:54:07 kind of a power hog, but I'm on it at work most nights Jan 23 00:54:18 I type with my fingers laptop-style Jan 23 00:54:59 do you remove the CF card when you suspend it? Jan 23 00:55:13 nope Jan 23 00:55:22 Hmm Jan 23 00:55:27 sometimes i need to manually reset it when I resume though Jan 23 00:55:37 a PITA, but not a big deal Jan 23 00:56:25 this is the clamshell model right? Jan 23 00:56:52 yup, C1000 (aka Akita) Jan 23 00:57:05 the one with no microdrive Jan 23 00:57:17 hmmm Jan 23 00:57:23 I have a 5500 too, but its battery is really toast Jan 23 00:57:35 thinking about picking up a replacement battery or a whole replacement 5500 Jan 23 00:57:40 guess I am the only one that gets annoyed at a CF card sticking out the side Jan 23 00:57:55 * johnx shrugs Jan 23 00:57:58 I got used to it Jan 23 00:58:00 how much you willing to pay for a 5500? got a friend who been wanting to sell his for a long time Jan 23 00:58:22 ouch! Jan 23 00:58:27 or you want a local source? Jan 23 00:58:35 sadly that would be a 'later' thing, not a 'right now' thing :/ Jan 23 00:58:41 okay Jan 23 00:59:08 but if he still has it, say a month from now and shipping isn't too bad I'd be interested in a known working model with an ok battery for somewhere south of $100USD Jan 23 00:59:10 if sharp put in either a bluetooth or a wifi, it would be that much better...esp with the self rotating screen Jan 23 00:59:15 cosmetic condition isn't that important Jan 23 00:59:24 i have "something" running right now on my tablet. Jan 23 00:59:28 think he says it has a new battery Jan 23 00:59:33 it is preventing a reboot and keeping the backlight on Jan 23 00:59:40 its pegged the cpu wayyyyy up Jan 23 00:59:46 any ideas what it could be :$ Jan 23 01:00:03 i merely went to open the camera Jan 23 01:00:23 errr...so you tried rootsh reboot and it didn't even close the GUI? Jan 23 01:00:28 the camera app does that on mine too bit I can't reproduce it reliably Jan 23 01:00:48 it told me it was going down, and the ssh session closed Jan 23 01:00:55 took a while to happen though Jan 23 01:00:57 yank the battery Jan 23 01:01:24 i have :) dont like gremlins like that Jan 23 01:01:32 first time its happened in a while Jan 23 01:07:10 lcuk: so, why are you smiling? :P Jan 23 01:09:04 because its coming together really nicely :) Jan 23 01:10:22 hehe Jan 23 01:20:11 Stslaptop, that picture is bouncing from zoomed right in to all the way back showing loads Jan 23 01:55:29 [23:28] LinuxCode, very well indeed :) Jan 23 01:55:31 cool Jan 23 01:55:46 sorry mate..trying to make sense of this svg stuff Jan 23 02:04:59 talking to your self, huh? :) Jan 23 02:08:04 gah. finally done with this semesters' exams Jan 23 02:08:36 * Stslaptop goes collapse in bed Jan 23 02:09:53 hehe Jan 23 02:10:36 * FireFox had his crazy history exam the day before yesterday :) Jan 23 02:11:24 nokia against Ogg Theora Jan 23 02:11:49 it did pressure on w3c Jan 23 02:12:59 doesn't give support in html 5.0 to ogv Jan 23 02:17:49 ... Jan 23 02:19:12 zzzzzzzz -_- Jan 23 02:19:58 oh hai! Jan 23 02:20:19 hi :) **** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Jan 23 02:59:57 2009