**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Jan 26 02:59:57 2009 Jan 26 03:00:26 :) Jan 26 03:00:33 very cool! Jan 26 03:05:00 that script is starting to get to a somewhat unruly size : Jan 26 03:31:23 * johnx wonders WTH is up with maemo's sudo Jan 26 03:34:44 ah, got it Jan 26 05:12:28 * FireFox16 is going to bed, g'night all Jan 26 05:57:21 is it possible to prevent tablet from rebooting if i stop Jan 26 05:57:27 xserver Jan 26 05:57:36 ? Jan 26 05:58:03 no-lifeguard-reset ? Jan 26 06:00:18 oh Jan 26 06:00:22 cool Jan 26 06:01:12 evil thing Jan 26 06:02:39 maybe there's another magic flag that disables watchdog? Jan 26 06:03:28 may be, you check? Jan 26 06:03:46 googling Jan 26 06:04:03 just flasher --set-rd-flags Jan 26 06:04:41 gentooers do not seek for an easy way, understand Jan 26 06:05:31 i'm in the train :) don't have flasher here Jan 26 06:06:22 infobot, are you alive? Jan 26 06:06:41 The dead cannot live Jan 26 06:07:49 oh Jan 26 06:08:12 infobot, as i thought Jan 26 07:47:39 hello Jan 26 07:48:14 I'm having an issue with the bootmenu for Mer... namely, that it doesn't actually *load* the bootmenu at boot Jan 26 07:49:02 I'm not that familiar with the actual workings of bootmenu - is there anything I may have done wrong? I just used the "Install Bootmenu" and "Install Mer" menu items in that order Jan 26 07:49:20 the config files look reasonable to me, but as I said, I'm not that familiar with it Jan 26 08:50:28 * timeless cries Jan 26 08:50:30 so... Jan 26 08:50:33 anyone alive? Jan 26 08:50:39 'fraid so Jan 26 08:50:44 open sounds control panel Jan 26 08:50:57 on the general tab, make sure the speaker isn't struck through w/ a red slash Jan 26 08:50:57 booted into mer right now Jan 26 08:51:03 siwtch to the ringtones tab Jan 26 08:51:14 make sure the speaker there *is* stricken Jan 26 08:51:24 do you not have this control panel? Jan 26 08:52:06 not yet Jan 26 08:52:15 I don't know if they're open or not Jan 26 08:52:19 I suspect they're closed Jan 26 08:52:29 I'll reboot into maemo and test for you though Jan 26 08:52:34 thanks Jan 26 08:52:45 enlightened self interest Jan 26 08:52:48 :) Jan 26 08:53:08 nokia confidential Jan 26 08:53:11 is anyone able to help me with the issue I mentioned a while back while no one was around? Jan 26 08:53:15 * timeless reads debian/copyright Jan 26 08:53:50 jaem, so bootmenu doesn't show up when you boot? Jan 26 08:53:58 heya johnx Jan 26 08:53:59 no Jan 26 08:54:02 it should show up I believe even if you just run install bootmenu Jan 26 08:54:08 I suspect the Mer install may not have completed properly Jan 26 08:54:11 hey RST38h Jan 26 08:54:25 but I don't know, because it appeared to finish, and then closed the console before I could check the messages Jan 26 08:54:40 where is the actual install script located? I can run it from an already open console, and see Jan 26 08:55:42 * timeless sighs Jan 26 08:55:45 * timeless kicks presence Jan 26 08:55:55 how can anyone actually use this device w/o muting it? Jan 26 08:55:59 jaem, b-man wrote it, and I don't remember the actual name, but if you run dpkg -L merinstaller Jan 26 08:56:06 right >< Jan 26 08:56:08 timeless, ok, rebooted will test Jan 26 08:56:10 sorry - it's late over here Jan 26 08:56:20 jaem: move to Europe ;-) Jan 26 08:56:28 lol Jan 26 08:56:40 (an Engineer's solution to a physical problem) Jan 26 08:56:45 hehe Jan 26 08:56:48 ah, no worries :) it's dumb for me to not know the name given how many times I've reinstalled mer Jan 26 08:57:01 hrm Jan 26 08:57:05 well, it's dumb for me, since I could have checked other ways, too Jan 26 08:57:05 timeless, tell me what else I'm testing Jan 26 08:57:05 * timeless should get mer onto mxr Jan 26 08:57:17 johnx: tap a grayed widget Jan 26 08:57:22 oh wait Jan 26 08:57:25 maybe it isn't grayed Jan 26 08:57:38 * timeless can never be sure given these wonderful combinations Jan 26 08:57:40 also: using advanced backlight/volume app Jan 26 08:58:16 johnx: basically as long as one of the two speakers is stricken, *something* should be gray *somewhere* Jan 26 08:58:26 when you tap those gray things, it should give you a message Jan 26 08:58:35 probably in the original sound applet Jan 26 08:58:44 Why you need 64bit pressure register in your touch screen hw: http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2009/01/1-25-09-vissumo-gun.jpg Jan 26 08:58:56 if one of the two is not *stricken*, then i claim "not all sounds are muted" Jan 26 08:59:36 johnx: yeah, i'm only reviewing nokia strings Jan 26 08:59:38 not third party ones Jan 26 08:59:42 one disaster at a time Jan 26 08:59:45 RST38h: heh Jan 26 09:00:38 johnx: so, did you get a bunch of info banners? Jan 26 09:00:40 "All sounds are muted" Jan 26 09:00:46 yeah, that one Jan 26 09:00:54 am i right in feeling that it's lying? Jan 26 09:00:54 just one info banner Jan 26 09:01:10 what do you think isn't muted? Jan 26 09:01:16 screen taps are muted Jan 26 09:01:21 trying canola Jan 26 09:01:46 well/... Jan 26 09:01:53 this whole thing doesn't make sense Jan 26 09:02:05 if the general mute is set Jan 26 09:02:19 why can i twiddle ring tone bits w/o an info banner? Jan 26 09:02:28 and if the general mute isn't set, but ring tone mute is set Jan 26 09:02:43 why can't i twiddle ring tone bits, and why must i get an info banner? Jan 26 09:03:06 anyway, turn the general thing to normal, and switch to ring tone mute Jan 26 09:03:13 and try tapping the gray items Jan 26 09:03:18 aaah Jan 26 09:03:19 I see Jan 26 09:03:23 :) Jan 26 09:03:51 personally there's a lot of bugs more annoying than that, that no one has time for :P Jan 26 09:04:11 i'm pretty sure i've hit or will hit most of them as i walk through the ui, string at a time :) Jan 26 09:04:24 jeez Jan 26 09:04:27 rememeber, i test things at various levels Jan 26 09:04:31 that sounds pretty thankless Jan 26 09:04:40 well, it depends Jan 26 09:04:51 if i manage to release an en-US locale that everyone installs after getting the device Jan 26 09:04:56 i'd be pretty happy Jan 26 09:05:21 e.g. i helped two russian couples from one hotel to another on friday Jan 26 09:05:28 at the end, they offered me money for the help Jan 26 09:05:38 i was just happy that they offered (i had to decline) Jan 26 09:05:41 you're going to push a 'new and improved' en_US locale? to extras? or ...? Jan 26 09:05:44 it's the small things that make me smile Jan 26 09:05:47 extras Jan 26 09:06:03 someone will have to walk me through various pieces, but that's the idea Jan 26 09:06:17 keep in mind that i've made ~5-10 .deb's, but have never pushed there Jan 26 09:06:39 well, pushing to mer is even easier :> Jan 26 09:06:53 it requires a working memory card? :) Jan 26 09:06:56 nope Jan 26 09:06:59 you can flash it Jan 26 09:07:06 no excuses Jan 26 09:07:07 i'm not ruining my perfectly bad os images :) Jan 26 09:07:10 ~er Jan 26 09:07:11 ~mer Jan 26 09:07:21 infobot, hello Jan 26 09:07:32 i heard er is Eritrea Jan 26 09:07:33 rumour has it, mer is http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer Jan 26 09:07:34 Howdy Bub Jan 26 09:07:41 laag ;) Jan 26 09:07:43 infobot ping Jan 26 09:07:45 ~pong Jan 26 09:07:49 infobot, you're lagging :P Jan 26 09:07:53 not to me Jan 26 09:07:54 hm, sleepy head Jan 26 09:07:58 which means i'm lagging to someone else Jan 26 09:09:54 timeless, so what do we have to do to get you to try mer? physically snail-mail you an sd card with mer installed? :P Jan 26 09:09:57 "This may blow up your MMC, steal your wife or cause doomsday to come around" Jan 26 09:09:59 aahahahahahaha Jan 26 09:10:03 awesome, made my day Jan 26 09:10:19 yes Jan 26 09:10:19 standard boilerplate disclaimer :) Jan 26 09:10:36 I've seen some pretty good disclaimers, and that was one of them, albeit not the longest Jan 26 09:10:53 johnx: I'm going to have to figure out Mer tomorrow Jan 26 09:11:13 I'm in the middle of chatting, writing a bugfix patch, and working on homework Jan 26 09:11:16 ENOWIFE Jan 26 09:11:20 jaem, alright, I should be here. hopefully we can get it sorted out :) Jan 26 09:11:26 this is why I need 3 monitors Jan 26 09:11:33 I don't know why anyone questions that... :P Jan 26 09:11:38 johnx: walk either myself or sp3000 through getting mer onto an sd card Jan 26 09:11:50 johnx: thanks Jan 26 09:11:57 ah, ok: cd /media/mmc2 ; tar zxvf mer.tar.gz Jan 26 09:12:17 i think you forgot 0. find an sd card Jan 26 09:12:24 will a 64m one work? Jan 26 09:12:29 hence the physical snail mail comment :P Jan 26 09:12:46 having someone give me an sd w/ mer @fosdem may be fastest Jan 26 09:12:48 for sd cards...probably 512MB Jan 26 09:13:05 iirc one tablet came w/ 64m and one came w/128m Jan 26 09:13:13 jjfs2 compression is really quite impressive... Jan 26 09:13:18 but i have 3 tablets, ... what did the other one come w/? Jan 26 09:13:28 wait? is one an n810? Jan 26 09:13:35 (or did the n810 not come w/ one at all?) Jan 26 09:13:42 you have 2GB right there :P Jan 26 09:13:52 internal! Jan 26 09:13:56 so? Jan 26 09:15:50 but then i can't test stuff :) Jan 26 09:16:43 attach to PC, resize vfat partition, make a second ext3 partition, install mer in a ~512MB partition, enjoy Jan 26 09:19:43 right... so back to my sound issue Jan 26 09:19:53 is it fair to say that the info banner is wrong? Jan 26 09:20:24 "All sounds are muted" Jan 26 09:20:32 It is technically accurate Jan 26 09:20:37 no sound comes from the device Jan 26 09:20:59 you currently have the general mute active Jan 26 09:21:08 switch it so only the ring mute is active Jan 26 09:21:14 then poke the gray widgets there Jan 26 09:21:20 ah Jan 26 09:21:34 the string was locally accurate Jan 26 09:21:38 and is a global mess Jan 26 09:21:39 oh definitely Jan 26 09:21:48 (shared strings) Jan 26 09:21:54 should be "Ringtones are muted." Jan 26 09:21:54 any l10n expert (of which we have none) Jan 26 09:22:02 would tell you never to recycle strings Jan 26 09:22:10 and this is a classic example of why Jan 26 09:22:31 for a second I thought you were nitpicking the use of 'all' in "All sounds are muted." Jan 26 09:22:32 given the constraint that the string is shared Jan 26 09:22:36 i am Jan 26 09:22:46 ah, but for the general mute Jan 26 09:23:06 well, figuring out where it's wrong requires testing Jan 26 09:23:10 for ringtones: definitely wrong Jan 26 09:23:18 for general: possibly not the best choice of words. Jan 26 09:23:20 knowing what should be wrong requires understanding English Jan 26 09:23:37 right... so, how does one fix this? Jan 26 09:23:48 "Can't adjust settings while muted" Jan 26 09:23:55 "Muted" Jan 26 09:23:59 solved :) Jan 26 09:23:59 it's generic, helpful.. Jan 26 09:24:05 nah, that'd sound like an action Jan 26 09:24:17 and Nokia style would give an info banner to tell you when you muted something Jan 26 09:24:18 "It's muted, ya' dork." Jan 26 09:24:40 "It's gray. Don't touch" Jan 26 09:24:51 now that would be a great shared string Jan 26 09:24:57 * timeless chuckles Jan 26 09:25:04 some themer would make it pink Jan 26 09:25:06 just to piss me off Jan 26 09:25:25 (anyone here use the valentine theme? - or remember it for that matter) Jan 26 09:25:30 windows, mac, and desktop Linux (KDE and Gnome) have no message for greyed menu items Jan 26 09:25:36 * timeless nods Jan 26 09:25:46 that's because they're um... better? Jan 26 09:25:57 s/better/different/ Jan 26 09:25:57 * suihkulokki decorates timeless's cubicle with pink paper and cute pink objects Jan 26 09:26:06 every UI is unique and special, like snowflakes Jan 26 09:26:11 suihkulokki: i used that theme for a few months Jan 26 09:26:17 on purpose? Jan 26 09:26:17 it was great for finding bugs Jan 26 09:26:21 of course Jan 26 09:26:28 i exploit everything i can to find bugs whereever i can Jan 26 09:26:44 * timeless wonders if the story of the unshipped dark theme is public Jan 26 09:27:04 aaah, bug magnet? Jan 26 09:27:11 let me guess: especially in the browser Jan 26 09:27:22 i can't remember, it was well over a year ago Jan 26 09:27:35 exploiting everything to find bugs reminds me I should join a specific testing programm Jan 26 09:27:45 can i join? Jan 26 09:28:07 *** suihkulokki : is signed on as account nchip Jan 26 09:28:09 * timeless sighs Jan 26 09:28:28 either freenode or my irc client has bad English Jan 26 09:28:42 suihkulokki: can you recognize the error? Jan 26 09:28:56 timeless, you'd go nuts here :) Jan 26 09:29:03 i'm going nuts here :) Jan 26 09:29:18 "as account" sounds funny Jan 26 09:29:25 i don't think .jp is much different from .fi Jan 26 09:29:27 I'm sure that message comes from freenode Jan 26 09:29:36 suihkulokki: you win the prize Jan 26 09:29:41 timeless, sometimes they get it right in .fi I hear Jan 26 09:29:50 heh Jan 26 09:29:58 people told me that before i came Jan 26 09:30:16 having been here, if they get it right, they'll also get it wrong inches away :) Jan 26 09:30:26 There's practically a whole en_JP that has entirely separate grammar from en_US or en_GB Jan 26 09:30:40 en_IN anyone? :) Jan 26 09:30:46 timeless: pft, if you continue to be mean to us, we'll start speaking just finnish to you :) Jan 26 09:30:49 Indiana? :D Jan 26 09:31:03 suihkulokki: vitu Jan 26 09:31:28 * timeless wonders if that's spelled correctly Jan 26 09:31:41 if you actually did that, slowly enough, i might actually learn finnish Jan 26 09:31:44 timeless: you missed the second 't' - vittu Jan 26 09:31:51 yeah, i thought i had Jan 26 09:32:13 * timeless should sign up w/ the swedish speakers Jan 26 09:32:22 they get remedial help in recognizing doubled letters Jan 26 09:32:24 * timeless needs that Jan 26 09:32:50 hey, did they move my mailbox? Jan 26 09:32:53 yeah, the problem with learning by listening people speaking is that people speak their native languages too damn fast Jan 26 09:33:17 * timeless offers suihkulokki a verb Jan 26 09:33:36 but otherwise, well stated :) Jan 26 09:33:51 this is IRC - it's not supposed be grammatically correct :P Jan 26 09:34:09 can we has no speling eether? Jan 26 09:34:13 :P Jan 26 09:34:39 the fewer words you write, the more tolerant i am Jan 26 09:34:54 the longer your string of words, the more strictly i enforce my parser Jan 26 09:35:02 Microsoft Office Outlook Jan 26 09:35:03 fuck Jan 26 09:35:04 you Jan 26 09:35:05 :P Jan 26 09:35:27 (x) The operation failed due to a registry or installation problem. Restart Outlook and try again. If the problem persists, please reinstall. Jan 26 09:35:29 [ OK ] Jan 26 09:35:42 suihkulokki: which reminds me... Jan 26 09:35:54 it always bothers me when females use those words together Jan 26 09:35:58 "is that an invitation?" Jan 26 09:36:57 * timeless frowns Jan 26 09:37:01 did everyone here get that? Jan 26 09:37:08 (raise your hand if you didn't...) Jan 26 09:37:41 Morning, all Jan 26 09:37:42 I think the tone of voice reveals if it is a invitation or not Jan 26 09:37:53 doesn't cary well over irc ;-) Jan 26 09:38:01 timeless: neither does raising hands Jan 26 09:38:10 jaem: yeah well :) Jan 26 09:38:38 Morning.. Jan 26 09:38:39 I've been known to give someone a high-five over the phone by bleeping the DTMF tone for 5 at them Jan 26 09:38:43 that works Jan 26 09:39:56 heh Jan 26 09:40:10 timeless, did a woman ask you that over IRC? Jan 26 09:40:37 'cause that's a totally different situation then asking the same question over the phone or in person Jan 26 09:41:03 also, Nokia: Why must your control panel and statusbar applets be closed source? Jan 26 09:41:05 augh! Jan 26 09:42:11 they don't want you to read the embarassing source code Jan 26 09:42:17 you might see the bug we talked about earlier :) Jan 26 09:42:47 tbh, i don't think i've really ever had a woman say it to me Jan 26 09:43:09 and, i think i'll abandon this area of questioning Jan 26 09:43:26 that's one of those "different meaning in every single circumstance" phrases Jan 26 09:44:08 heh...what if I promise not to read the code? what if I just recompile for Mer? Jan 26 09:44:36 you're not doing anyone any favors by taking nokia differentiators to a new and clean platform Jan 26 09:44:46 how about you write something that isn't buggy and ship that instead? Jan 26 09:44:55 as a starting point, include fewer features Jan 26 09:44:58 more features = more bugs Jan 26 09:45:01 know what they're going to get replaced by? a bash script that calls zenity Jan 26 09:45:06 this control panel is a good example Jan 26 09:45:41 > It comes from the same family as dialog, Xdialog, and cdialog, but it surpasses those projects by having a cooler name. Jan 26 09:45:52 yes, that zenity Jan 26 09:46:31 so the bash script will call gettext? Jan 26 09:46:50 aaah, localization...yeah, that's a nice dream :) Jan 26 09:47:04 today's nightmare Jan 26 09:47:14 fewer features = fewer bugs Jan 26 09:47:24 no localization = no localization problems Jan 26 09:47:37 fair enough Jan 26 09:47:48 everyone can read Japanese, right? Jan 26 09:47:53 I mean, it's not *that* hard Jan 26 09:47:56 "ooh shiny" Jan 26 09:48:04 "pretty tree" Jan 26 09:48:51 as long as you don't let me reformat my device using a non confirmed japanese glyph Jan 26 09:48:54 johnx: Yea, but could they please switch to european-looking pictograms? =) Jan 26 09:49:11 RST38h, sure, I'll spell it all out in Romaji so you can't look it up Jan 26 09:49:27 interesting note: the Kanji for big and small both end up as 'o' in Romaji Jan 26 09:49:54 romaji = phonetic spelling of Japanese (or other Eastern languages) in the Roman alphabet Jan 26 09:50:16 hepburn, kunrei or nihon? :) Jan 26 09:50:33 Nihongo Jan 26 09:51:14 not that it's all that consistently used here... Jan 26 09:52:14 also important to keep in mind: My Japanese is the level of your average 5-7 on a good day Jan 26 09:52:26 *5-7 year-old Jan 26 09:52:29 on a good day your mind is? Jan 26 09:52:40 or your mind is <5-7's good day> Jan 26 09:53:07 bah :P Jan 26 09:53:35 this isn't finnish where there are enough pointers to try to get away w/ something like that Jan 26 09:54:32 I can always try :P Jan 26 09:55:17 timeless, あなたは面倒くさい Jan 26 09:56:30 my terminal isn't utf8 safe ;-b Jan 26 09:56:54 ah, sad :/ Jan 26 09:57:12 I even got it right :P Jan 26 09:57:36 so ["a]["a]{^a}["a]["a]{^_}['e][c|][oa]["a]["a]["a] to you ;b Jan 26 09:58:27 [] is for superimposing, the first slot is typically above the second Jan 26 09:58:58 {} is where i need to do something else (^ being raise), so {^2} would mean a tiny superscript 2 Jan 26 09:59:06 O_o Jan 26 09:59:14 I just called you a pain :P Jan 26 09:59:27 that reminds me Jan 26 09:59:33 i'm supposed to give a lecture on gecko today Jan 26 09:59:56 any specific gecko? Jan 26 10:00:13 Mozilla Gecko Jan 26 10:00:41 if i meant the animal, it should have been 'on gecko_s_' Jan 26 10:01:09 oh brother Jan 26 10:01:12 no fair Jan 26 10:01:16 3.0? 3.1? Jan 26 10:01:16 rm * Jan 26 10:01:19 doesn't do what i want Jan 26 10:01:22 3.2 i suppose Jan 26 10:01:30 it's more of a basic lecture Jan 26 10:01:38 so 0.6 is probably also accurate Jan 26 10:01:45 * timeless dates to m16 or thereabouts Jan 26 10:01:54 a, good time :) Jan 26 10:01:58 and in case people are curious, none of those numbers are compatible Jan 26 10:02:00 s/a/ah Jan 26 10:02:04 m18 is the last in a numbering sequence Jan 26 10:02:10 yeah, I remember Jan 26 10:02:15 0.6 is the first in the next numbering sequence Jan 26 10:02:29 I remember when mozilla stopped crashing and I could finally put 4.x out of its misery Jan 26 10:02:30 and 1.9.2 is the closest mapping for 3.2 Jan 26 10:02:44 ok, so... since rm * doesn't do what i want Jan 26 10:02:47 what does? Jan 26 10:02:52 what do you want to do? Jan 26 10:02:55 end it all? Jan 26 10:03:08 delete all symlinks in the current directory Jan 26 10:03:21 (i already deleted all files) Jan 26 10:03:23 and rm isn't deleting your symlinks? Jan 26 10:03:26 nope Jan 26 10:03:42 rm `echo *` Jan 26 10:03:46 seems to have worked a bit better Jan 26 10:04:17 which rm is this? Jan 26 10:04:23 which shell? Jan 26 10:04:23 zsh Jan 26 10:04:25 aaah Jan 26 10:04:28 great Jan 26 10:04:42 that's non-sh compatible behavior Jan 26 10:04:43 blech Jan 26 10:05:00 which, that rm * didn't zap my symlinks? Jan 26 10:05:04 correct Jan 26 10:05:08 just tested it here Jan 26 10:05:12 * benson is using Mozilla 1.4 Jan 26 10:05:13 Gecko/20030707 Jan 26 10:05:25 "why?" Jan 26 10:05:41 benson, so what is it like to handle genuine prehistoric artifacts? Jan 26 10:05:43 Old Slack9 system Jan 26 10:05:54 Haven't updated in years. Jan 26 10:05:56 firebird 0.6? Jan 26 10:06:06 What can I say, it's stable! Jan 26 10:06:09 you realize there are quite a few security holes in that, right? Jan 26 10:06:21 I almost never use it. Jan 26 10:06:35 I almost never have sex. Jan 26 10:06:41 yeah, you're still at risk Jan 26 10:06:55 It's up right now to get my X config off. Jan 26 10:07:44 I'm getting an up-to-date netbsd install going on the other HDD. Jan 26 10:08:02 walking around the internet w/ an old browser is like walking around wearing an old used condom and poking into everything Jan 26 10:08:50 Depends how selective one is about where one walks, but I get the point. ;) Jan 26 10:08:53 I prefer the analogy of walking bearfoot in an alley full of used needles :) Jan 26 10:09:02 wow, never tried either Jan 26 10:09:08 you're missing out Jan 26 10:09:19 ...on various contagious diseases Jan 26 10:09:36 * timeless ponders Jan 26 10:09:57 johnx: it depends on how callous free your feet are, i suppose Jan 26 10:10:13 but yeah, your picture might be better Jan 26 10:10:35 The needles are there. No action required on your part except to step in the wrong place Jan 26 10:10:58 * timeless nods Jan 26 10:11:04 i think i like your analogy better than mine Jan 26 10:11:21 it has the benefit of connecting w/ the entire populace instead of less than half Jan 26 10:11:41 johnx: it's more like walking around in an alley full of evil, sentient needles Jan 26 10:11:55 yeah, that's the problem Jan 26 10:12:05 it needs to be underlined that the needles move Jan 26 10:12:11 and are likely to move in your direction Jan 26 10:12:16 in hordes Jan 26 10:12:41 and they'll find the part of your foot that isn't calloused Jan 26 10:12:43 the chances are still lowish, but it sure would suck if you stepped on one Jan 26 10:12:44 given enough time Jan 26 10:12:47 * benson hides under desk. Jan 26 10:13:10 Yeah, there's risk, and I probably should know better. Jan 26 10:13:29 at least you aren't irc'ing as root :) Jan 26 10:13:40 meh. Some the computers at work are running a Mozilla build from 2002 I believe Jan 26 10:13:46 But unless they take out my X config (which I already copied off), they can't really hurt me mutch. Jan 26 10:13:52 *much Jan 26 10:14:00 johnx: Is it fast? =) Jan 26 10:14:01 local network exploits? Jan 26 10:14:06 Because that's the last data I have on here. Jan 26 10:14:07 benh, unless your box becomes a spambot :) Jan 26 10:14:25 For a few hours, yeah, I guess. Jan 26 10:14:26 there are some cool things one can do inside something like a firewall Jan 26 10:14:34 RST38h, oh it's quite fast. It's running on various later Pentium Ms and Core Duos Jan 26 10:14:58 johnx: why 2002? Jan 26 10:15:14 because that was when they made the system image? Jan 26 10:15:38 * timeless laments the loss of set-timebomb.pl Jan 26 10:15:53 http://bonsai.mozilla.org/cvslog.cgi?file=mozilla/config/set-timebomb.pl&rev=SeaMonkey_M10_BRANCH&mark=3.5 Jan 26 10:16:03 The whole IT infrastructure would fall over in a stiff breeze... Jan 26 10:16:17 and nsITimeBomb Jan 26 10:16:26 Well, point taken. Gonna reboot and cram that config into NetBSD, and probably never boot this HDD again. Jan 26 10:16:28 johnx: ehh, gimme back my 2002 Mozilla... Jan 26 10:16:50 http://bonsai.mozilla.org/cvslog.cgi?file=mozilla/xpfe/components/timebomb/nsITimeBomb.idl&rev=SeaMonkey_M18_BRANCH&mark=1.3 Jan 26 10:17:28 nsITimeBomb existed in 1.4 Jan 26 10:17:50 right Jan 26 10:17:54 RST38h, it also won't even try to display google maps and fails to cope with huge swaths of the formatting ... on our own web page Jan 26 10:18:32 lol Jan 26 10:19:09 johnx: so... Jan 26 10:19:13 how many users per box? Jan 26 10:19:15 (1?) Jan 26 10:19:29 and are those users admins? Jan 26 10:19:33 (no?) Jan 26 10:19:42 johnx: Ah, who cares, I will use it to read mobile pages =) Jan 26 10:19:45 well, they could be admins if they dropped to a console :) Jan 26 10:19:59 and if the user downloaded an .exe and dumped it on the desktop, could they run it? Jan 26 10:20:03 (yes?) Jan 26 10:20:29 yeah, there are other ways to exploit it for sure Jan 26 10:20:41 -- treat .exe as a generic format specific to the actual os Jan 26 10:20:52 of course. I get the point :) Jan 26 10:20:55 no, my question isn't that Jan 26 10:21:12 i'm wondering if gecko would be better served by always installing into the local user's workspace Jan 26 10:21:15 and autoupdating Jan 26 10:21:44 so that even if you had a build from 2002, it'd instantly be updated to a current one Jan 26 10:21:49 timeless@swift:~/translate% tar cf /tmp/translate.tar `find .` Jan 26 10:21:50 zsh: arg list too long: tar Jan 26 10:22:03 * timeless grumbles Jan 26 10:22:34 tar cf /tmp/translate.tar ./ Jan 26 10:22:44 timeless@swift:~/translate% mv * ../translate0 Jan 26 10:23:07 johnx: I'm heading to bed - I'll likely be around in about 8 hours or so, if you're still on Jan 26 10:23:13 g'night Jan 26 10:23:27 and as for what you're suggested about gecko auto-updating: making that work right would be far beyond the IT staff (hint: I'm not part of the IT staff) Jan 26 10:23:35 'night jaem Jan 26 10:23:37 no no Jan 26 10:23:38 morning Jan 26 10:23:44 jaem: refresh_bootmenu.d Jan 26 10:23:46 i'm wondering about making gecko's installer do this Jan 26 10:23:51 Stskeeps: tried that Jan 26 10:23:53 so that any normal install would behave this way Jan 26 10:23:57 the bootmenu doesn't even seem to load Jan 26 10:23:57 jaem, I might be asleep by then :) Jan 26 10:23:57 no bootmenu coming up, jaem? Jan 26 10:24:01 or would your it go out of its way to break that? Jan 26 10:24:09 jaem: and you did the "install bootmenu" part? as in, utilities -> bootmenu Jan 26 10:24:09 no - nothing at all Jan 26 10:24:13 yes ;) Jan 26 10:24:16 and then hold down home key while booting Jan 26 10:24:26 wait... home key? Did that change? Jan 26 10:24:40 I thought 'twas the menu key Jan 26 10:24:43 ok, menu key Jan 26 10:24:50 yes, I did that Jan 26 10:24:57 oh brother Jan 26 10:24:59 * timeless sighs Jan 26 10:24:59 timeless, are you still making builds for linux distros with a circa 2001 version of libc, gtk, et al? Jan 26 10:25:03 * timeless kicks microb-l10n Jan 26 10:25:05 but it didn't even print the "hold down foo key to enter bootmenu" message Jan 26 10:25:10 jaem: hmmm. what tablet type? Jan 26 10:25:16 (bear with me 5 mins before heading to bed :) Jan 26 10:25:20 N810, latest FW Jan 26 10:25:22 okay Jan 26 10:25:23 sure thing Jan 26 10:25:29 oh darn Jan 26 10:25:31 it's having issues Jan 26 10:25:40 I just did a fresh flash before trying to install mer Jan 26 10:25:40 johnx: if we did this, we'd probably need to ship our own .so's for things Jan 26 10:25:58 oh - never mind Jan 26 10:26:00 jaem: fresh flash is good though :P Jan 26 10:26:09 I thought there was an issue, but there isn't Jan 26 10:26:13 timeless, it's likely that in our case it would break things badly and thus end up disabled Jan 26 10:26:30 any specific likely reasons it'd break? Jan 26 10:26:37 i understand the old libc bit Jan 26 10:26:38 timeless, we boot from a local file server with PXE Jan 26 10:26:42 i believe that could be handled Jan 26 10:26:49 Stskeeps: the *.item file is in bootmenu.d, and there's a bootmenu.conf in the mounted initfs Jan 26 10:26:55 I'm not sure what the issue is Jan 26 10:27:27 jaem, does 'install bootmenu' complete successfully and ask you to reboot? Jan 26 10:27:32 yes Jan 26 10:27:44 Stskeeps, will it still show the boot menu if there are no items besides internal flash? Jan 26 10:27:57 * jaem was wondering that Jan 26 10:27:59 jaem: is there a /bootmenu.sh in /mnt/initfs Jan 26 10:28:02 johnx: i think so Jan 26 10:28:07 Stskeeps let me check Jan 26 10:28:11 Stskeeps, yeah, I thought that too Jan 26 10:28:36 Stskeeps.... no, I suppose that could be an issue :S Jan 26 10:28:43 should I try installing the bootmenu again? Jan 26 10:29:03 timeless, so, it would be installing a new version of firefox everytime the machine was booted? Even I'm not exactly thrilled with that idea Jan 26 10:29:32 timeless, I think the solution is that the IT staff needs to get off their ass and make a new image every half decade or so Jan 26 10:29:52 johnx: well, fwiw Jan 26 10:30:06 (BTW: The grammar is correct; the whole IT staff shares one ass) Jan 26 10:30:07 a modern gecko is going to download an 80+mb phishing database at boot Jan 26 10:30:10 unless you persist that Jan 26 10:30:50 ahaha...we'd saturate our own pipe for quite a while just booting the computers in the morning Jan 26 10:30:51 nice Jan 26 10:31:22 Stskeeps: I got a "*** bootmenu.sh added" message this time, anyways Jan 26 10:31:22 good to hear about the obvious problems Jan 26 10:31:30 but err Jan 26 10:31:33 gah Jan 26 10:31:35 johnx: It is probably something in 20-40MB range and only done once Jan 26 10:31:39 johnx: remember that some stupid court ruled windows start up time can't be calculated as part of your work time! Jan 26 10:31:42 :P Jan 26 10:31:47 ok, so for your case, we're talking about probably 200mb per boot Jan 26 10:31:51 RST38h, on 80 computers in some offices Jan 26 10:31:52 johnx: And only on Unix. Dunno why it does not happen with Windows version Jan 26 10:32:16 since i'm imagining grabbing libs from libc-compat, glib, gdk, gtk2, cairo, pango Jan 26 10:32:48 johnx: but that is going to be a wonderful meltdown, it will show everybody what IT staff is for! Jan 26 10:32:55 oh - there we go... booting Mer! Jan 26 10:33:02 I don't know what happened before Jan 26 10:33:16 by the way, who was it that designed the Mer logo? Jan 26 10:33:33 jaem, it's neat huh? That would be wazd of tabletui.wordpress.com Jan 26 10:33:39 ah... I was wondering Jan 26 10:33:41 I love it Jan 26 10:33:56 johnx: it's neat, but could the inset thing be bigger? Jan 26 10:33:59 almost looks like something that would have come from the Oxygen Project Jan 26 10:34:03 RST38h, ahaha...our IT staff is largely a myth anyways. No one's seen them or heard from them. Waiting for them to fix a problem is kind of like waiting for the second coming Jan 26 10:34:03 but not quite Jan 26 10:34:13 maybe they're ninjas Jan 26 10:34:27 let sleeping ninjas lie? Jan 26 10:34:32 although if that was the case, you might not see them, but the dead bodies would tip you off after a while Jan 26 10:34:57 yeah, and I somehow imagine the computers either working better or being full of deadly traps Jan 26 10:35:02 not just sadly neglected Jan 26 10:35:07 :( Jan 26 10:35:46 timeless, hmmm, the circle around the 'e' in mer? Jan 26 10:36:12 hrm Jan 26 10:36:23 i was looking at something which shrink wrapped the logo Jan 26 10:36:26 in a blue thing Jan 26 10:36:36 http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer/People Jan 26 10:36:37 perhaps Jan 26 10:36:42 probably in fact Jan 26 10:36:55 timeless, http://tabletui.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/title.png?w=160&h=136 ? Jan 26 10:37:12 yeah i think so Jan 26 10:37:19 aaah, having the 'mer' part be bigger in relation to the blue square? Jan 26 10:37:25 yes Jan 26 10:37:48 Mer appears to be hanging at boot Jan 26 10:37:54 about 3/4 of the way across Jan 26 10:39:15 jaem: give it a bit Jan 26 10:39:19 okay Jan 26 10:39:34 i believe that's the first boot wizard coming there Jan 26 10:39:52 that would make sense... premature worrying on my part Jan 26 10:39:58 no Jan 26 10:40:01 reasonable complaint Jan 26 10:40:09 if it needs to take time, it needs to tell you Jan 26 10:40:17 timeless, version 0.6 :P Jan 26 10:40:20 (in a heartbeat/blinking manner) Jan 26 10:40:22 lol Jan 26 10:40:30 timeless: i agree, but right now we're exposing the problems to be able to fix them Jan 26 10:40:34 instead of hiding them :) Jan 26 10:40:46 have you guys used BeOS? Jan 26 10:40:56 jaem, has it appeared yet? shouldn't take more than a couple seconds Jan 26 10:40:59 * timeless likes its boot sequence Jan 26 10:41:13 timeless: I think I've tried Haiku in a VM, but never real BeOS Jan 26 10:41:14 timeless@swift:~/translate% diff -u -r . ../translate0|grep -v '^Common subdirectories:'|patch -p0 Jan 26 10:41:14 Looks like a unified context diff. Jan 26 10:41:14 File to patch: Jan 26 10:41:20 * timeless grumbles Jan 26 10:41:23 that so didn't work Jan 26 10:41:23 johnx: no Jan 26 10:41:33 jaem, ok, something's wrong :) Jan 26 10:41:42 it's slowish, but not *that* slow :) Jan 26 10:41:46 hmm Jan 26 10:42:13 out of curiousity, how do you get into the Mer rescue menu? or is that not done yet? Jan 26 10:42:13 jaem, has it stopped completely at 3/4? Jan 26 10:42:19 yes Jan 26 10:42:30 rescue menu works great Jan 26 10:42:38 after you select mer from the boot menu, hold the 'home' key Jan 26 10:42:43 okay Jan 26 10:42:52 yeah, it's just stopped completely Jan 26 10:42:57 +++ ./gtk20-l10n-4.2/po/en_US.po Mon Jan 26 11:36:15 2009 Jan 26 10:43:00 # English (British) translation Jan 26 10:43:06 oh boy, now that makes sense Jan 26 10:43:14 timeless, actually, that's a neat idea, though the progress bar gives a certain granularity that BeOS lacked. Jan 26 10:43:37 johnx: there's a fairly detailed writeup about the BeOS boot sequence Jan 26 10:43:56 it explains what's done for each stage and how you can understand what failed if you get stuck at a given stage Jan 26 10:44:06 and for a device which is wider than tall Jan 26 10:44:18 a five set of icons would fit nicely Jan 26 10:44:46 timeless, you should poke at wazd when he wakes up. :) Jan 26 10:44:55 poke me when we're both around Jan 26 10:44:59 (or poke sp3000 if i don't respond) Jan 26 10:45:13 I miss so many things about BeOS Jan 26 10:45:48 * Stskeeps goes see if there's a freshly baked mer image waiting for hi Jan 26 10:45:48 m Jan 26 10:46:02 I was saying earlier: Once you try enough operating systems and/or desktop environments you can only be 60% happy using any one Jan 26 10:46:04 * timeless grumbles Jan 26 10:46:07 what the HECK Jan 26 10:46:08 * Jaffa boggles at Clay missing many many points Jan 26 10:46:29 johnx, what was the rx51 again ? Jan 26 10:46:30 can someone grep for 'recognise' in gtk20-l10n-4.2's en_US mo file? Jan 26 10:46:38 jaffa: this is the voting thing? Jan 26 10:46:39 the new N8x0 ? Jan 26 10:46:43 LinuxCode, the next Nokia thing to run Maemo Jan 26 10:46:45 did he ever find the mailing list? Jan 26 10:47:01 johnx, there is somebody here Jan 26 10:47:04 saying this Jan 26 10:47:14 it's not rx51. it's Freescale i.MX51 (Babbage board) Jan 26 10:47:38 N810 is RX-44, N810 WiMAX - RX-48 Jan 26 10:47:43 thats what he says Jan 26 10:48:03 Hi all. I seem to have removed my keys for the package manager, how can I get them back? Jan 26 10:48:19 LinuxCode, huh? where? Jan 26 10:48:20 linuxcode: i general please don't try to guess the versioning for public hardware Jan 26 10:48:24 johnx, sec mate Jan 26 10:48:27 we're very good at picking totally random product names Jan 26 10:48:42 gabkdlly: what do you mean by "keys"? Jan 26 10:48:46 s/i general/in general/ Jan 26 10:48:55 johnx, a guy from "Nokia" joined #fedora-arm Jan 26 10:49:03 timeless: yeah Jan 26 10:49:05 gabkdlly: are you missing the repository addresses? Jan 26 10:49:30 jaem: trying to do "apt-get update && apt-get upgrade" results in packages that can't be authenticated Jan 26 10:49:32 LinuxCode: highly doubt they would switch to freescale when they have a perfectly good relationship with TI and such :P Jan 26 10:49:46 linuxcode: he's a real nokian Jan 26 10:49:52 gabkdlly: AFAIK not all the packages are authenticated Jan 26 10:50:19 timeless, who is ? Jan 26 10:50:23 kad Jan 26 10:50:28 k Jan 26 10:50:32 then it must be true Jan 26 10:50:37 but he's a russian Jan 26 10:50:40 i wouldn't trust his spelling Jan 26 10:50:48 r's, m's... Jan 26 10:51:14 lolol Jan 26 10:51:15 LinuxCode, the i.mx series boards are not related to the RX-51 Jan 26 10:51:16 haha Jan 26 10:51:22 i see Jan 26 10:51:36 it hardly matters Jan 26 10:51:43 the *x numbering is mostly internal Jan 26 10:51:47 it leaks here or there Jan 26 10:51:53 but doesn't actually help anyone Jan 26 10:51:55 yah Jan 26 10:52:06 timeless: it keeps the community vibrant with rumours ;) Jan 26 10:52:14 just wondered how mnay test beds they had concurrently running Jan 26 10:52:16 yay numbers! Jan 26 10:52:16 only the british part Jan 26 10:52:21 * timeless prefers rumors Jan 26 10:52:29 yes we like rumours Jan 26 10:52:32 look at the sun Jan 26 10:52:37 full of rumours Jan 26 10:52:39 ENOTFOUND Jan 26 10:52:46 all i see is white Jan 26 10:52:56 (it's snowing) Jan 26 10:53:03 or you are dead Jan 26 10:53:04 right so um... Jan 26 10:53:25 morning lcuk Jan 26 10:53:32 can someone w/ an n800/n810 find the gtk20 l10n package? Jan 26 10:53:34 timeless, snow ? where ? Jan 26 10:53:42 mornin lc Jan 26 10:53:42 scotland ? Jan 26 10:53:44 LinuxCode, you can build ARM EABI binaries on pretty much any ARM > armv5te Jan 26 10:53:50 .fi of course Jan 26 10:53:58 johnx, yeh Jan 26 10:53:59 where else would there be no sun + snow? Jan 26 10:54:04 timeless, hehe Jan 26 10:54:09 so you pick the one with the most RAM :) Jan 26 10:54:09 * RST38h check where LinuxCode lives Jan 26 10:54:12 /usr/share/locale/en_US/LC_MESSAGES Jan 26 10:54:20 *gtk* Jan 26 10:54:34 RST38h, im in the UK Jan 26 10:54:37 does that file have 'recognise' in it? Jan 26 10:54:37 Stupid network does not even show real IPs. Bleah. Jan 26 10:54:48 *** timeless is n=timeless@webwizardry.net (timeless) Jan 26 10:54:49 LinuxCode: Ah, rian then? =) Jan 26 10:54:50 RST38h, no need...just ask me Jan 26 10:54:52 rain Jan 26 10:55:01 webwizardry.net is in Washington State iirc Jan 26 10:55:01 not right now..no Jan 26 10:55:08 in case that helps anyone Jan 26 10:55:08 RST38h, I live in the south Jan 26 10:55:14 its not so wet here Jan 26 10:55:38 LinuxCode: Well, asking works in this particular case but in general one does not ask a potential flood/exploit victim about its IP :) Jan 26 10:55:39 johnx: i see updated auto-startx, what's changed? Jan 26 10:55:51 nm Jan 26 10:55:54 .. read the jaiku Jan 26 10:55:56 Stskeeps, finally added the change you wanted :) Jan 26 10:56:03 RST38h, haha Jan 26 10:56:09 rst38h: not my box, it's a risk my friend takes for me :) Jan 26 10:56:10 johnx: cursor one? Jan 26 10:56:16 to mkdir -p /var/run/console Jan 26 10:56:20 ah Jan 26 10:56:21 yes Jan 26 10:56:23 RST38h, you wanted to flood me ? Jan 26 10:56:24 very useful Jan 26 10:56:25 rofl Jan 26 10:56:37 ah...can't think of a good way to figure out whether to display a cursor... Jan 26 10:56:40 so... grep someone? Jan 26 10:56:53 Hmm. For some reason my vim package was missing a build-dep. That shouldn't happen. Jan 26 10:56:56 jaffa? Jan 26 10:57:09 johnx, cursor could be displayed when you get mousemoves without a button pressed :) otherwise hidden andassumed to be pen based input Jan 26 10:57:40 timeless: i have a gtk20.mo.. Jan 26 10:57:43 lcuk, I like it :) want to make me a little 'test-cursor.c' for that? Jan 26 10:57:43 lcuk: or it could go away after idle Jan 26 10:57:55 that way i could press w/ a finger Jan 26 10:58:00 lift and see what i misclicked Jan 26 10:58:03 timeless thats a different issue and does not work in dual mode Jan 26 10:58:17 and after a few seconds, i have the normal picture Jan 26 10:58:19 timeless: auto-builder issue. Just general muttering on my part, feel free to ignore me ;-) Jan 26 10:58:20 johnx, in what language/toolkit? Jan 26 10:58:20 'dual mode'? Jan 26 10:58:27 pen/mouse Jan 26 10:58:31 Stskeeps: grep for recognise Jan 26 10:58:33 finger/mouse Jan 26 10:58:36 thumb/mouse Jan 26 10:58:49 why wouldn't it work? Jan 26 10:58:58 * lcuk refrains from using other appendages to that Jan 26 10:59:03 timeless: http://rafb.net/p/AMWMNg91.html Jan 26 10:59:12 timeless, it would but that doesnt solve the problem of identifying which Jan 26 10:59:19 our xserver almost certainly doesn't support multiple concurrent cursors Jan 26 10:59:27 lcuk, straight C and Xlib would be nice. :) but any lib in a default maemo install is fair game Jan 26 10:59:35 Stskeeps: please file a bug Jan 26 10:59:51 timeless: i'm already way over my list of WONTFIX'es.. :P Jan 26 10:59:51 timeless, this isn't for your X server necessarily :P :) Jan 26 10:59:53 course it does, just have a single blank one in the set of normal ones, then forcefully assign that into the current cursor as required Jan 26 11:00:26 it requires explicit x tweaks which only some would attempt, but its feasible Jan 26 11:00:30 lcuk: newer xservers support multiple pointers at the same time Jan 26 11:00:43 timeless: we use xorg in mer already, so maybe :P Jan 26 11:00:44 o.O Jan 26 11:00:55 mer is using xorg. I was under the impression that fremantle would be xorg as well... Jan 26 11:01:18 johnx, remoind me later unless ive got other things on my mind Jan 26 11:01:28 lcuk, sure, no rush Jan 26 11:02:00 maybe it should just be a first-boot option...and later a control panel thing Jan 26 11:02:12 Display mouse pointer: (no | yes) Jan 26 11:02:21 nooooooo Jan 26 11:02:32 too technical for a touch device Jan 26 11:02:36 i'm still confused Jan 26 11:03:08 lcuk, not having a cursor is too annoying for a touchless device though :P Jan 26 11:03:13 johnx: except how do you point to it? :P Jan 26 11:03:24 johnx, just have a "mouse_cursor" package available that someone who explicitely wants mouse stuff can get it Jan 26 11:03:25 Stskeeps, on by default :P Jan 26 11:03:39 lcuk, and the people with a mouse won't be able to get far enough to install it Jan 26 11:03:50 lcuk, think: "more than just tablets" :P Jan 26 11:04:27 could be valid to set in the imager I guess. anyways, won't worry about it for now :P Jan 26 11:04:32 :) touchscreen pcs, touchscreen netbooks, wii Jan 26 11:04:43 wii needs cursor though Jan 26 11:04:47 and a special one at that Jan 26 11:05:14 wii could definitely make use of multiple cursors in both senses of the word :) Jan 26 11:05:40 wii needs custom rotatable handslike real wii Jan 26 11:05:45 anyway, bbl Jan 26 11:05:51 * lcuk gulps Jan 26 11:05:51 goodluckwiththat :P Jan 26 11:06:13 ah, but really, best of luck :) Jan 26 11:09:15 jaem: any luck with console? Jan 26 11:11:53 Stskeeps: it slipped my mind - I'm trying to squash a bug Jan 26 11:11:55 I'll check Jan 26 11:12:22 i know the feeling, i was chasing HAL bugs most of yesterday Jan 26 11:13:00 * johnx looks at auto-munging packages from extras Jan 26 11:13:10 well, I haven't had much experience with "real" languages (we had to do C# in high school, and I haven't had much CS at uni yet), but I found a bug I can fix in KDE, so that makes me happy Jan 26 11:13:50 meh, it's not the languages that matters, it's understanding the paradigms behind them Jan 26 11:14:00 msgid "PNM loader expected to find an integer, but didn't" Jan 26 11:14:00 msgstr "PNM loader did not find expected integer" Jan 26 11:14:01 know them and you can adapt to any language in a day, brainfuck excluded Jan 26 11:14:03 * timeless ponders Jan 26 11:14:07 timeless: wtf :P Jan 26 11:14:08 true... but it takes a while to learn the new APIs Jan 26 11:14:15 ++stskeeps Jan 26 11:14:19 'please file a bug' Jan 26 11:14:25 and maybe get me whatever they were smoking Jan 26 11:14:28 it must be good Jan 26 11:14:28 *drool* Mer rescue menu is gorgeous Jan 26 11:14:38 jaem: yes, almost makes you want to crash your tablet Jan 26 11:14:44 jaem, yup, wazd++ for that :) Jan 26 11:14:52 heh Jan 26 11:14:55 and Stskeeps++ for making it in the first place of course Jan 26 11:14:57 yay console Jan 26 11:14:58 :D Jan 26 11:15:20 jaem: if it continues failing i'll give you a tar.gz of my latest snapshot to play with Jan 26 11:15:33 thanks - that would be good Jan 26 11:15:36 msgstr "PNM loader encountered something that wasn't an integer" Jan 26 11:15:40 I tried booting into cli Jan 26 11:15:51 would that at least be true to the meaning of the text? Jan 26 11:16:06 and I got a "mmcblk1: error 1 sending read/write command\n I/O error blah blah blah" Jan 26 11:16:10 that doesn't sound so good Jan 26 11:16:14 the original message is technically correct (obviously), but not necessarily human readable Jan 26 11:16:18 jaem: ow, SD card damage? Jan 26 11:16:31 jaem: n800 or n810? Jan 26 11:16:35 jaem, eep. yeah, not good. time to look at your card's warranty Jan 26 11:16:39 n810, and it's internal Jan 26 11:16:42 >< Jan 26 11:16:46 did you ever 'fix' your internal? Jan 26 11:16:46 ah, time to fix the partition table :) Jan 26 11:16:47 so, the n810's warranty Jan 26 11:16:59 because some of them came w/ a misconfigured partition table Jan 26 11:17:00 timeless: I never had issues with it, actually Jan 26 11:17:04 the one i have next to me is among them Jan 26 11:17:06 my friend did, but mine has been fine Jan 26 11:17:13 and I've heard of worse Jan 26 11:17:39 jaem, you're booting mer from an ext2/3 parition, right Jan 26 11:18:02 johnx: U32AC Jan 26 11:18:04 I bought a in-circuit serial programmer for PICmicro MCUs, and the tech told me the batch before mine had experimental bootloaders that would brick your device if you tried flashing Jan 26 11:18:09 johnx: yes Jan 26 11:18:26 jaem, ok. so not the 'partitioning problem' then Jan 26 11:18:28 jaem: wow Jan 26 11:18:30 the last msg is "init: rc-default main process (1667) terminated with status 2" Jan 26 11:18:34 timeless, hmm? Jan 26 11:18:56 johnx: the initial layout might be wrong still Jan 26 11:18:58 the problem is I/O errors. everything else is a sympyom Jan 26 11:18:58 timeless: it was a mistake - I guess someone wasn't awake, and they shipped the wrong fw Jan 26 11:19:21 the issue I had (that made me call the tech) was even more bizzare Jan 26 11:19:24 johnx: random glyph Jan 26 11:19:25 johnx: yeah Jan 26 11:19:27 that's not good Jan 26 11:19:29 that the heck Jan 26 11:19:31 * timeless grumbles Jan 26 11:19:32 grr Jan 26 11:19:43 ah, did you repartition your card or just format the existing partition? Jan 26 11:19:47 morning all Jan 26 11:19:55 timeless, shows up as: U32AC Jan 26 11:20:01 hey lardman :) Jan 26 11:20:14 lo lardman Jan 26 11:20:16 johnx: well yeah.. treat it as a unicode code point and then look at it :) Jan 26 11:20:20 johnx: the first time I tried, I fully repartitioned it, but then I reinstalled, and I just reformatted then Jan 26 11:20:43 so... how nice is Nokia with their warranty policy? :/ Jan 26 11:21:03 actually, I wonder if it's still covered by the retailer Jan 26 11:21:05 that would be better Jan 26 11:21:14 jaem: we should verifiy it's not the partition table first i guess :P Jan 26 11:21:24 fair enough, but I'm fairly certain Jan 26 11:21:30 I'll boot back into Maemo Jan 26 11:23:02 good morning Jan 26 11:23:17 morning Myrtti Jan 26 11:23:43 back in Maemo Jan 26 11:23:47 Myrtti: how would you organise a localization project for Mer? as in, tools and cooperation and such, - we have a bunch of .pos and too many languages :P Jan 26 11:24:02 Stskeeps: launchpad. Jan 26 11:24:11 how do they make it simple? Jan 26 11:24:24 mailing lists are there Jan 26 11:24:29 or you can have it there Jan 26 11:24:52 there's also lots of translators that do other projects, so you have a good base from Launchpad only already Jan 26 11:25:05 Stskeeps, launchpad: our old ball and chain :) Jan 26 11:25:12 ah, they have a po interface it seems like? Jan 26 11:25:15 yup Jan 26 11:25:17 yes Jan 26 11:25:27 interesting Jan 26 11:25:37 I don't translate in any other way. Sending the po's back and forth is annoying Jan 26 11:25:58 hey Jan 26 11:26:08 is there a tool that can tell me if a msgid and a msgstr differ? Jan 26 11:26:14 atleast Finnish translators have their own mailing list apart from launchpad, older than launchpad Jan 26 11:26:25 for quality issues and checking the translations Jan 26 11:26:44 Myrtti: so how does it work? people upload pos? Jan 26 11:26:48 like, initially Jan 26 11:26:54 yupo Jan 26 11:27:21 and you can get the po's out launchpad if you want to Jan 26 11:28:11 can you upload mo's? :) Jan 26 11:28:18 I have no idea Jan 26 11:28:44 Myrtti: thanks for the info :) Jan 26 11:30:03 * Jaffa raises #4043 in bugs.m.o to try and merge some of the HAM changes upstream Jan 26 11:30:56 Jaffa: attach to sprint :) Jan 26 11:31:14 Just part of the merification, isn't it Jan 26 11:31:15 ? Jan 26 11:31:15 jaffa: please create an attachment Jan 26 11:31:16 * johnx attempts to write a nice little auto-munger that takes a debian/control for a diablo package and spits out a debian/control suitable for mer Jan 26 11:31:51 timeless: thought you'd say that, but I was a) following another bug which also linked to a launchpad diff; b) haven't got access to the machine with the patch on Jan 26 11:32:05 * Jaffa goes to see if he can Jan 26 11:32:10 Jaffa: well, to the bugs list on the sprint list.. it's a good way to see how many % are WONTFIX :P Jan 26 11:32:33 jaffa: some browsers (well, some os file pickers) will let you select urls in file upload fields :) Jan 26 11:32:54 http://bazaar.launchpad.net/%7Emer-committers/m-r/hildon-application-manager/diff/7 Jan 26 11:33:21 jaffa: stupid question Jan 26 11:33:26 how 'early' is this migration done Jan 26 11:33:29 and how 'often'? Jan 26 11:33:46 could a 'guest' user 'poison' h-a-m? Jan 26 11:34:14 or is that not an issue because all 'users' are trusted and allowed to run h-a-m anyway Jan 26 11:34:48 technically you should use /etc/passwd to find user's home directories :) Jan 26 11:35:57 msgid "Do use the Wintab API [default]" Jan 26 11:36:00 * timeless sgihs Jan 26 11:36:08 someone needs to learn about DOs and DONTs Jan 26 11:37:28 err Jan 26 11:37:34 johnx: did you push first-boot-wizard too? Jan 26 11:37:35 who gave me this url: http://svn.gnome.org/svn/gtk+/trunk/po/ Jan 26 11:37:39 is there a way to import wikipedia poi's to maemo mapper? Jan 26 11:37:43 timeless: <- Jan 26 11:38:00 can you give me a url for gtkcalendar.c ? Jan 26 11:38:01 Stskeeps, I did :) I need to make it add $PREFERED_USER to @users though Jan 26 11:38:07 forgot about that Jan 26 11:38:36 Stskeeps: I tried fiddling with a few things... fsck hangs, which can't be a good sign Jan 26 11:39:12 jaem: sfdisk -l /dev/mmcblkyourinternal Jan 26 11:39:26 johnx: and remember to build instead of build-x86 for first-boot-wizard, it's not arch-indep Jan 26 11:39:53 ah, it should be arch indep though, I believe. I'll fix that Jan 26 11:40:13 stskeeps: hurry? i need to go to work(lunch) Jan 26 11:40:45 timeless: http://svn.gnome.org/svn/gtk+/trunk/gtk/gtkcalendar.c Jan 26 11:41:22 stskeeps: ok Jan 26 11:41:26 a bug needs to be filed Jan 26 11:41:29 view-source:http://svn.gnome.org/svn/gtk+/trunk/gtk/gtkcalendar.c Jan 26 11:41:31 * Note that this flipping is in top of the text direction flipping, Jan 26 11:41:33 Stskeeps: it prints the line about /dev/mmcblk0, and then just hangs Jan 26 11:41:42 it won't display any partition info Jan 26 11:41:42 'is in top' is not meaningful/proper English Jan 26 11:42:13 jaem: warranty :/ Jan 26 11:42:19 :( Jan 26 11:42:21 sounds like your internal mmc is blown Jan 26 11:42:23 yeah Jan 26 11:42:25 it does Jan 26 11:42:27 ouch Jan 26 11:42:46 which is the first time i've ever heard that happening Jan 26 11:43:00 jaem: N810? Jan 26 11:43:00 do yourself a favour and flash the original initfs on it Jan 26 11:43:14 Stskeeps: yeah, that might be wise ;) Jan 26 11:43:19 X-Fade: yes Jan 26 11:43:25 also: you're using Nokia's kernel right? Jan 26 11:43:30 johnx: yes Jan 26 11:43:33 jaem: Make sure that the partition and filesystem are the same size. Jan 26 11:43:39 everything stock Jan 26 11:43:49 X-Fade: sorry? Jan 26 11:43:51 * lcuk needs mroe loo roll Jan 26 11:44:03 X-Fade: we just verified it can't even read the partition table :P Jan 26 11:44:03 X-Fade, if it hangs reading the partition talbe something wrong :) Jan 26 11:44:27 indeed Jan 26 11:44:32 well then Jan 26 11:44:35 johnx, Stskeeps: Written past the limit? Jan 26 11:45:05 Not sure it it wraps to the first blocks :) Jan 26 11:45:12 X-Fade, that's not the typical failure mode for sd cards unless the failed part is the very first couple blocks Jan 26 11:45:24 X-Fade: hehe, we don't know, but we cannot even zap the partition table, so :) Jan 26 11:45:40 well, hm Jan 26 11:45:46 jaem: let's try one thing Jan 26 11:45:55 okay - shoot Jan 26 11:46:13 actually, hold your fire - I'm going to get a drink :P Jan 26 11:46:53 back Jan 26 11:47:02 so, I guess the Mer disclaimer was warranted Jan 26 11:47:07 heh heh Jan 26 11:47:13 sfdisk -s , sfdisk /dev/mmcblk0 , write ",,L" Jan 26 11:47:22 and ctrl-d Jan 26 11:47:23 I haven't married yet, so it can't steal my wife :P Jan 26 11:47:49 Stskeeps: what do you mean by "write ',,L'" Jan 26 11:48:05 type ,,L Jan 26 11:48:08 ok Jan 26 11:48:11 it means put one big linux partition on it Jan 26 11:48:17 I wasn't sure how literally you meant it Jan 26 11:49:27 the second cmd gives me a "Device Busy" error, but nothing on that card is mounted Jan 26 11:49:41 umount /media/mmc* Jan 26 11:50:24 "Invalid argument" on both mountpoints Jan 26 11:50:32 hmm Jan 26 11:50:40 nothing's mounted Jan 26 11:50:44 I checked mtab Jan 26 11:50:54 fair enough, seems like it's hosed then :/ Jan 26 11:51:07 just checking...but you don't have your n810 plugged into your computer by usb right now, correct? Jan 26 11:51:19 johnx: no Jan 26 11:53:52 hildon-application-manager.launch: /usr/lib/libstdc++.so.6: version `CXXABI_ARM_1.3.3' not found (required by hildon-application-manager.launch) Jan 26 11:53:55 * Stskeeps glares Jan 26 11:57:42 I purchased my N810 through a friend, since he gets a discount at the store ($380 CAD last September :D), so I'll have to get him to check his warranty terms Jan 26 11:58:04 I think his membership also gives him free RMA pickup, too, which would be nice Jan 26 12:00:31 ls Jan 26 12:00:36 wrong window Jan 26 12:02:24 morning wazd Jan 26 12:03:05 Stskeeps: that's not good Jan 26 12:03:12 hello everybody) Jan 26 12:03:32 Well, that was slightly more than 5 hours :) Jan 26 12:03:35 wazd: I love your Mer rescue menu graphics :D Jan 26 12:03:42 keep up the good work Jan 26 12:03:49 jaem: thanks :) Jan 26 12:04:05 Jaffa: I've made .png Mer logo for you Jan 26 12:04:09 Jaffa: the whole compiler toolchain for SB is a bit fucky Jan 26 12:04:36 never tested it with c++ Jan 26 12:04:36 :P Jan 26 12:04:53 timeless: attachment attached to #4043 (and I'm pretty happy with the security & implementations on Maemo & Mer. Yes, could use /etc/passwd to find home directories, but a bit overkill for a postinst) Jan 26 12:04:58 wazd: indeed, I think I saw. Jan 26 12:05:12 But I've lost it now Jan 26 12:05:38 Jaffa: http://s55.radikal.ru/i149/0901/ed/cec296ff7fa9.png Jan 26 12:06:40 ta Jan 26 12:07:49 wazd: could you mail me on carsten.munk at gmail.com the stuff on http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer/People ? ;) i'll add you as the worthy participant you are then, and if you dont have a jaiku invite already, invite you there :P Jan 26 12:08:49 oh, sure! Jan 26 12:09:04 and no, I don't have Jaiku invite \ Jan 26 12:09:27 oh great... now I can't reproduce the bug I was trying to fix... Jan 26 12:09:33 anyhow, I'm heading off to bed Jan 26 12:09:35 night, everybody Jan 26 12:10:12 b-man|half-aslee: coffee is the solution Jan 26 12:10:43 i'm going to school in 5 minutes, i can't ;p Jan 26 12:10:54 Ha: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3750#c19 Jan 26 12:11:10 'night jaem :) Jan 26 12:11:19 GeneralAntilles: hehe :> Jan 26 12:11:30 haha Jan 26 12:11:36 ah the unknown wonders of vending machine canned coffee :) Jan 26 12:13:44 * b-man|half-aslee leaves for school - bye :) Jan 26 12:14:34 GeneralAntilles, does that mean it's fixed (the report is about SSU/updating)? Jan 26 12:14:59 Well, it wont affect SSU updates. Jan 26 12:16:00 and that's what the bug was about, right? Jan 26 12:16:12 maybe i simply don't get it :) Jan 26 12:16:40 andre__, the solution was to remove the dependencies from osv Jan 26 12:16:47 but the packages haven't actually been fixed Jan 26 12:17:02 so if somebody slips the packages back into osv, then the same mess will occur. Jan 26 12:17:39 Stskeeps: yay on http://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/mer-locale.png Jan 26 12:17:46 gsss. ok. Jan 26 12:17:52 That's almost worth replacing one of the exisiting screenshots Jan 26 12:17:59 hehe Jan 26 12:17:59 andre__, RESOLVE if you see fit. ;) Jan 26 12:18:10 Jaffa: you should almost see the monster that fixed it.. Jan 26 12:18:48 Jaffa: http://rafb.net/p/3YJ15A71.html Jan 26 12:18:56 GeneralAntilles, what fit?! :-P Jan 26 12:19:30 GeneralAntilles: re 4001 im not sure it's "nokia not supporting" really - maybe a bit too much to expect of a pre-alpha and i suspect many of these strings will be gone (as it seems like they're dropping "old" h-d completely in next sdk) Jan 26 12:19:58 Stskeeps, but we need the "old" h-d, no? (until we know more, anyway) Jan 26 12:20:07 GeneralAntilles: at this point we've branched it Jan 26 12:20:14 Stskeeps: nice Jan 26 12:20:35 Stskeeps: done) Jan 26 12:20:48 Jaffa: and then a bunch of oneliners to automatically dch -i, bzr commit, push and dpkg-buildpackage ;) Jan 26 12:21:36 wazd: thanks! Jan 26 12:23:26 Stskeeps: so it's a single "fix-l10n" package? Jan 26 12:24:55 Jaffa: nah, https://code.launchpad.net/~mer-translations Jan 26 12:25:34 wazf: if you have any better implementations of http://wiki.maemo.org/Image:Mer-faded-background.png btw, I'd be happy to see 'em ;-) Jan 26 12:26:20 wazd: invited to jaiku Jan 26 12:27:02 johnx: while you're at start-hildon, meiz's suggestion on jaiku could be good Jan 26 12:27:33 will do Jan 26 12:28:08 are there any special tricks to do to make SDL work under Maemo? Jan 26 12:28:31 I set the resolution OK (I think) Jan 26 12:30:30 ah, now I remember, it's 16 bpp Jan 26 12:30:55 Stskeeps: wow, dedicated :-) Jan 26 12:30:57 that's like 5 bits per channel Jan 26 12:31:16 565 IIRC Jan 26 12:32:57 Jaffa: now we just need someone to manage the launchpad part of localization and stuff, it's definately not my area Jan 26 12:33:36 Stskeeps: if no-one else does, I can probably take a look. But it won't be before the 0.8 sprint :-( Jan 26 12:33:42 Jaffa: yeah, fair enough Jan 26 12:33:46 we're not in a hurry atm Jan 26 12:34:02 having good localization strings is a good thing for 0.7 already Jan 26 12:35:27 Hello everybody ! Jan 26 12:35:33 morning Khertan_atWork Jan 26 12:35:34 hi Khertan_atWork Jan 26 12:35:49 Khertan_atWork: http://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/mer-homeip.png ;) Jan 26 12:35:55 (you need to make it support eth0 too :P) Jan 26 12:36:43 Stskeeps: doesn't VirtualBox have "Save screenshot" functionality, which'd mean not seeing the frames? Jan 26 12:36:57 Jaffa: don't think so actually Jan 26 12:37:05 Jaffa: i like it for the effect though Jan 26 12:37:25 "look, this works on x86 too". and if i wanted a screenshot, i would take it with the load applet :) Jan 26 12:37:45 Stskeeps: true, but makes the screenshots on Mer/About look like it /doesn't/ run on an actual device ;-) Jan 26 12:37:53 (IMHO) Jan 26 12:38:20 Does it run on an actual device though? Jan 26 12:38:47 RST38h, runs on plenty, kthx :P Jan 26 12:38:54 RST38h: zaurus, 770, n8x0 :P Jan 26 12:38:58 Yes. There's a video of it on an N810 on p.m.o Jan 26 12:38:59 Ah Jan 26 12:39:04 Jaffa: there is? Jan 26 12:39:10 Just checking, folks =) Jan 26 12:39:10 There is. Jan 26 12:39:23 oh Jan 26 12:39:43 RST38h, heh. I used to worry that we talk about mer too much on #maemo but I guess we need to work on raising awareness Jan 26 12:40:08 Stskeeps: it was even on the "Latest Activity" feed, but - oh, hmm, that needs a date re-sort Jan 26 12:40:25 stskeeps> about python on mer ... i ve done a stupid things ... i ve now a conflict with python2.5-cairo et python-cairo ;) Jan 26 12:41:06 * Jaffa goes to fix the theme Jan 26 12:41:33 s/theme/feed/ Jan 26 12:41:44 Khertan_atWork: hehe Jan 26 12:42:27 * Stskeeps watches Mer video Jan 26 12:42:58 johnx: it is the wrong time Jan 26 12:43:38 johnx: until it is usable by joe-users on the standard n8x0 hardware, raising awareness will do it more harm then good Jan 26 12:43:39 RST38h, yeah, still a little early. I was just surprised you hadn't clicked on one screenshot or another yet Jan 26 12:43:42 Jaffa++ about the virtualbox Jan 26 12:44:14 johnx: I clicked on a lot fo screenshots lately, but those are not indicative of anything. Jan 26 12:44:33 Just showing empty Hildon desktop running some desktop apps Jan 26 12:44:54 RST38h: hehe, but trust me, even getting that far is a feat in itself :) Jan 26 12:45:06 and we are starting to get more maemo apps on top now Jan 26 12:45:48 i think i ll use it everyday if can get my phone data connection useable on it Jan 26 12:46:20 hehe.. now that's one thing nokia does right, it's so bloody easy to tether Jan 26 12:47:14 hmm, well bluez-gnome is happy enough to install... Jan 26 12:47:30 it s also seem's that mer drain more battery Jan 26 12:47:41 Khertan_atWork, at this point: very likely Jan 26 12:47:52 is this something normal ? Jan 26 12:48:01 Sts: Yea, I understand :) Jan 26 12:48:05 is it something normal ? Jan 26 12:48:13 Khertan_atWork: yes, the wifi power saving is not working right now Jan 26 12:48:13 Stskeeps : fixed the feed so that the blog will appear at the right point now (about #3 at the moment)( Jan 26 12:48:21 ok Jan 26 12:48:32 Khertan_atWork: Maemo has gone through great lengths to get power saving optimized. You don't get that for free when you just pick a debian install. Jan 26 12:48:44 :) Jan 26 12:48:48 of course :) Jan 26 12:48:54 just asking :) Jan 26 12:49:24 X-Fade: yeah.. we hope to get closer to maemo than a normal ubuntu install though :) Jan 26 12:49:47 Stskeeps: Sure, but there are always applications that just don't know about powersaving ;) Jan 26 12:49:53 yeah, of course Jan 26 12:50:13 A simple blinking cursor can prevent the device from sleeping for example. Jan 26 12:50:23 oh ? really ? Jan 26 12:50:46 a blinking cursor is managed in a gtk widget normally ? Jan 26 12:50:51 Khertan_atWork: Yes, if it is stupid enough to request redraws the whole time etc.. Jan 26 12:51:20 or anything with a timer, really Jan 26 12:51:34 Most developers of desktop apps didn't think about the powersaving case until a year ago orso.. Jan 26 12:51:52 Powertop gave a lot of people insights in that.. Jan 26 12:52:12 yup, looking forward to letting powertop loose :) Jan 26 12:52:31 also, another reason we're sticking with maemo apps as much as we can Jan 26 12:52:41 johnx: yeah, reducing wakups will save you a lot probably. Jan 26 12:53:48 interesting note: gnome's bluetooth-applet works great in mer Jan 26 12:55:00 Jaffa: recompiled HAM with proper stdc, checking it out now Jan 26 12:55:10 editing network is really hard with all this window which doesn't get focus Jan 26 12:56:12 ... Jan 26 12:56:47 * Stskeeps mumbles something about torching scratchbox Jan 26 12:57:05 * RST38h found a dead pixel in Lenovo's *frame buffer* Jan 26 12:57:22 No at the LCD, mind you, but in the freaking frame buffer Jan 26 12:57:33 that's a new one Jan 26 12:57:36 Stskeeps, frankly I'm surprised you've stayed sane this long while staring into its depths Jan 26 12:57:54 Next time you feel desire to buy a ThinkPad, keep this in mind. And the fact that Lenovo's battery died after 3 months of light use Jan 26 12:58:13 RST38h, the framebuffer is a totally generic intel part Jan 26 12:58:21 johnx: i am more astonished i was able to stop smoking while tinkering with this thing Jan 26 12:58:30 the coffee probably helps Jan 26 12:59:04 johnx: Well, this particular totally generic intel part died Jan 26 12:59:42 johnx: And this is the first time in my life that I see it die (which just happens to be in a Lenovo laptop, following other first occurances in my life that happened with a Lenovo laptop) Jan 26 13:00:19 RST38h, ah, the beauty of coincidence and anecdotal evidence :) Jan 26 13:01:06 johnx: Never underestimate serial anecdotal evidence Jan 26 13:01:34 noted Jan 26 13:01:53 On the bright side, some IBM execs are probably laughing now, telling each other how they got rid of the goddamn notebook unit just in time to avoid its collapse Jan 26 13:03:23 never underestimate the way how internet forums convert anecdotal evidence to facts and "fixing" instructions.. Jan 26 13:03:34 Hehe Jan 26 13:03:41 aaah, the joy of cargo cult Jan 26 13:08:25 * RST38h wonders if IT will "fix" his "anecdotal evidence" by exchanging this lemon for an HP notebook Jan 26 13:09:13 hi Jan 26 13:09:36 wazd: up for a tiny bit of artwork? Jan 26 13:10:11 800x400, a ! alert icon, with text "Cannot boot Mer, incompatible bootmenu used" Jan 26 13:10:22 and "Restarting in 60 seconds" Jan 26 13:10:58 i need to install mer Jan 26 13:11:09 MaceN800: wait for the 1st Jan 26 13:11:13 been so damn busy Jan 26 13:11:19 1st? Jan 26 13:11:23 yeah, 0.7 release Jan 26 13:11:27 ah Jan 26 13:11:34 we release every 14th day, on the sunday Jan 26 13:11:36 Should be shiny. Jan 26 13:11:39 ok Jan 26 13:11:59 almost up to 1.0 ;) Jan 26 13:12:19 MaceN800: it'll go on to 0.10 until we decide it's stable enough for public consumptio Jan 26 13:12:32 johnx: weird thing i was thinking about - icons problem Jan 26 13:12:38 .999 Jan 26 13:12:39 gdk svg loader Jan 26 13:12:57 Stskeeps, hmm? think it's causing problems? Jan 26 13:12:57 ok then.. going to do laundry Jan 26 13:13:03 johnx: we don't have it cos it's not OSS AFAIK Jan 26 13:13:11 O_o Jan 26 13:14:31 but then again sdk shouldn't have it then Jan 26 13:14:43 well (*&$%. yeah, it's closed Jan 26 13:14:54 gdk-osso-svg-loader = Nokia-closed Jan 26 13:15:12 but that is another big question, it isn't in SDK, so why is SDK working? Jan 26 13:15:25 ah, you sure it's no in the SDK? Jan 26 13:15:43 it would definitely be in the diablo sdk Jan 26 13:16:13 johnx: as in, fremantle sdk, cos yerga got widgets on his Jan 26 13:16:50 SVG? For widgets? In fremantle. Jan 26 13:16:52 ? Jan 26 13:17:04 Jaffa: well, we have the "odd icon problem" Jan 26 13:17:12 yeesh Jan 26 13:17:15 the "back" button in file chooser is missing in mer, but not in fremantle Jan 26 13:25:35 Hi wazd! your Jaiku activation code is: aaaa Jan 26 13:25:54 so unique :) Jan 26 13:26:27 well, every special and unique user gets a special and unique activation code :D Jan 26 13:26:29 and now we know it! Jan 26 13:28:23 whoa, Stskeeps is a true jaiku-dealer :) Jan 26 13:29:35 work towards mer = jaiku invites :) Jan 26 13:31:06 * wazd now can flood bout what he's eating right now xD Jan 26 13:32:09 anyone know if bundyo made any modifications to the version of webkit he uses for tear? Jan 26 13:33:02 moo wazd Jan 26 13:34:03 RST38h: heya :) Jan 26 13:34:33 johnx: I think so, but not sure how extensive. Jan 26 13:34:53 mmm...and I forgot tear was written in vala... Jan 26 13:35:02 and? Jan 26 13:35:44 trying to find candidate packages that: 1) I want and 2) are possible to get working on mer now Jan 26 13:35:54 ah Jan 26 13:36:00 trying to find what I should look for with my auto-munger script Jan 26 13:36:29 but we don't have maemo-vala (or whatever it's called) so I think I won't worry about it for now :) Jan 26 13:37:10 sure? i thought so Jan 26 13:37:29 we have that in mer already? Jan 26 13:37:30 i can't see the source but.. Jan 26 13:37:49 maybe it is :P Jan 26 13:38:03 i can see a vala in our rep at least Jan 26 13:38:15 then I'll give it a shot Jan 26 13:38:22 hi Jan 26 13:38:36 Stskeeps: are your fresh packages ready for testing? Jan 26 13:38:48 The Vala in Ubuntu is *very* old IIRC> Don't know how up-to-date it is in Jaunty Jan 26 13:38:49 thopiekar: a little better today yes, application manager is broken but rest works :P Jan 26 13:38:57 johnx: there should be a vala package in extras-devel Jan 26 13:39:19 Stskeeps: is there a howto: install? Jan 26 13:39:26 Jaffa, ah, I'll take a look. thanks :) Jan 26 13:39:50 thopiekar: do you have a fresh tablet without bootmenu or clone to SD, and you have the extras-devel repository installed? Jan 26 13:39:54 Again, not bang up to date, but probably more recent Jan 26 13:40:32 yes but devel-extras should be activated.. I will take a look at it.. Jan 26 13:44:00 is it possible to install and run succesfully a programm in a deb-package builed in fremandle-sdk? Jan 26 13:44:24 no. Jan 26 13:45:03 hmm Jan 26 13:45:05 thanks Jan 26 13:45:24 thopiekar: in where, you mean? :P Jan 26 13:45:31 I would even need fremantle on my device too right? Jan 26 13:45:48 on the device then.. Jan 26 13:45:49 yeah, fremantle SDK is for fremantle devices :) Jan 26 13:46:25 it has even fresh and more packages at .repository.maemo.org... Jan 26 13:46:32 thopiekar: you would need to install a huge bunch of fremantle libraries Jan 26 13:46:41 * thopiekar needs a fremantle release.. Jan 26 13:46:47 ... even a beta Jan 26 13:47:01 thopiekar: which probably either wouldn't install or wouldn't work on your tablet Jan 26 13:47:17 hmm Jan 26 13:47:20 so, the answer is "no" Jan 26 13:47:51 RST38h: ok thanks Jan 26 13:48:03 thopiekar, Nokia's fremantle is for the OMAP3 and will partially depend on hardware accelerated OpenGL ES 2.0 to speed up clutter Jan 26 13:48:16 Stskeeps: so extras-devel should be disabled for the installtion? Jan 26 13:48:20 thopiekar: enabled Jan 26 13:48:26 johnx: I kinda doubt hildon-level stuff will depend on clutter Jan 26 13:48:27 aah Jan 26 13:48:30 ok it is.. Jan 26 13:48:35 johnx: So, it may not be something to worry about that much Jan 26 13:48:47 But the rest will still not work Jan 26 13:48:51 RST38h, you mean libhildon1 or hildon-desktop? Jan 26 13:48:58 johnx: both Jan 26 13:49:18 thopiekar: good, grab http://packages.tspre.org/pool/user/b/bootmenu/bootmenu_1.4_armel.deb , install and utilities -> install bootmenu,say yes to removing test stuff and such, say yes to including bootmenu.conf (important). Reboot when done flashing. Jan 26 13:49:22 RST38h, well, they're dropping h-d in favor of something new and fancy Jan 26 13:49:23 johnx: does that mean that maemo5 will not be available for n8x0 devices? Jan 26 13:49:32 thopiekar: correct, except in the form of Mer Jan 26 13:49:40 johnx: My crystal balls are currently telling me that the infamous "clutter-based maemo" will most likely be a multimedia shell on top of the traditional stuff Jan 26 13:49:50 RST38h, no kidding :P Jan 26 13:50:06 johnx: There are lots of reasons in favor of this prediction Jan 26 13:50:23 yes, and I *agree* with you Jan 26 13:50:34 Stskeeps: about the maemo5 problem... lets face it... how can I help the project actively? Jan 26 13:50:46 * RST38h wonders if Canola guys are already involved =) Jan 26 13:51:03 RST38h, I predict that libhildon1 will be nice and normal, while matchbox2 gets compositing abilities and the successor to h-d adds effects Jan 26 13:51:12 thopiekar: hehe, we'll see :) Jan 26 13:51:16 ok Jan 26 13:51:20 thopiekar: for now, let's get you loaded up with mer Jan 26 13:51:30 sok Jan 26 13:51:32 *ok Jan 26 13:51:33 ^^ Jan 26 13:51:44 johnx: well, afaik compositing is optional in wms Jan 26 13:51:48 thopiekar: The alphas are really not for developers yet. Jan 26 13:52:07 thopiekar: They serve as preview, but aren't meant to develop applications with yet. Jan 26 13:52:23 RST38h, I don't know any WMs that have optional compositing support Jan 26 13:52:44 johnx: but still I really doubt all this clutter stuff will penetrate the traditional Maemo stuff deep enough Jan 26 13:52:57 johnx: optional in the sense that you can live without it Jan 26 13:53:01 X-Fade: I just wanted to use the sdk for rebuilding from ubuntu-sources.. Jan 26 13:53:42 RST38h, right, as long as you have a replacement for panels, window manager, etc Jan 26 13:53:58 thopiekar: it's about as hard as in maemo 4 :) Jan 26 13:54:21 johnx: all this does not have to be transparent Jan 26 13:54:40 johnx: and as I said I doubt wm will use clutter very much Jan 26 13:54:57 thopiekar: Well, unless you want to do the real hardcore stuff, you can't and shouldn't use it for that yet.. Jan 26 13:55:15 Stskeeps: the project has a lot to do.. right? what do exspect? Jan 26 13:55:37 X-Fade: ok thanks Jan 26 13:55:43 RST38h, well, we'll see...but I'm not going to bet on Nokia taking time to be overly backwards compatible Jan 26 13:56:04 Almost required reading: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/01/26/dziuba_linux_desktop/ Jan 26 13:56:06 thopiekar: oh, i meant that fremantle compiling ubuntu packages will be difficult Jan 26 13:56:30 RST38h: we have a e too :P Jan 26 13:56:41 johnx: Ah, they will not. But there is only that much you can brea^H^H^Hdo in six months. Jan 26 13:56:49 RST38h: I hope you're wrong bout multimedia shell :) Jan 26 13:57:09 wazd: Why? You would prefer them breaking the whole thing? =) Jan 26 13:57:15 RST38h: I'd like to see some core graphics instead of canola Jan 26 13:57:16 Stskeeps: yes I know but I asked you about the mer - project.. Jan 26 13:57:34 StS: You have got a false e, the e of satan! Jan 26 13:57:37 thopiekar: ah - we have a lot to do but on the other side, we aren't starting from complete scratch Jan 26 13:57:47 RST38h: our proud sponsor.. Jan 26 13:57:56 wazd: Oh, clutter will be avalable for general use =) Jan 26 13:58:04 Sts: The Cthulhu? Jan 26 13:58:08 thopiekar: like many other mobile projects Jan 26 13:58:18 RST38h: whoever's the god for pure raving insanity Jan 26 13:58:41 wazd: Which reminds me: as you have already got the ocean there, why not add some tentacles?=) Jan 26 13:58:46 wazd, you can install clutter and develop apps in it now on linux desktop/laptop :) i was playing on my x41 tablet Jan 26 13:58:53 Sts: That's Him indeed Jan 26 13:59:59 thopiekar: tell me when done with that step and i'll walk you through the next steps Jan 26 14:00:04 now that would make a killer panic screen :D Jan 26 14:00:29 tentacles reaching out of the screen. and a a form that induces madness Jan 26 14:00:44 johnx: that's the artwork for the "don't run this with an incompatible bootmenu" Jan 26 14:00:45 :P Jan 26 14:00:54 RST38h, I should use theregister to train a bayesian filter to detect trolls :P Jan 26 14:01:02 thopiekar: keep notes and you can improve http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer/Releases/0.6#Nokia_N8x0_-_Installer_files_.28simple.29 when you're done :-) Jan 26 14:01:20 I'm back... surprising what one hour of half-sleep will do for you when you've already stayed up most of the night Jan 26 14:01:26 sorry to be OT, but did you see the Lovecraftian Niger-Scam baiting letter exchange, johnx ? Jan 26 14:01:48 pupnik, I did not. :D I'll track it down for later reading Jan 26 14:01:50 johnx: I think they have got a bunch of house trolls, so you won't get enough breadth Jan 26 14:01:50 I wonder how heavy it would be to run evolution Jan 26 14:01:55 * thopiekar is installing the bootmenue Jan 26 14:02:03 has anyone tried? Jan 26 14:02:11 lir1: mm, i'll try Jan 26 14:02:19 * thopiekar has installed the bootmenue Jan 26 14:02:23 thopiekar: and rebooted? Jan 26 14:02:34 wait Jan 26 14:02:35 after the utilities -> install bootmenu Jan 26 14:02:36 ^^ Jan 26 14:02:36 ok Jan 26 14:02:48 I'm asking because evolution would provide somewhat of an answer to PIM with google since it can sync Google Calendar and Contacts too Jan 26 14:03:06 * thopiekar executed sudo init 6 Jan 26 14:03:08 at least according to some posts I've read on different blogs Jan 26 14:03:25 question btw.. why is diablos apt so buggy Jan 26 14:03:26 ?? Jan 26 14:03:40 grr... what is it with Europe and their crazy timezones... it's *still* not tomorrow, and I want my KDE Jan 26 14:03:49 you did: install and utilities -> install bootmenu,say yes to removing test stuff and such, say yes to including bootmenu.conf (important). Reboot when done flashing as it asks you do. Jan 26 14:03:50 * thopiekar 's device has rebooted Jan 26 14:03:53 ? Jan 26 14:04:11 -> thopiekar Jan 26 14:04:47 ay yes to removing test stuff and such, say yes to including bootmenu.conf (important). ... Jan 26 14:04:47 the osso-therminal just opens and even closes then.. Jan 26 14:05:04 * when executeing install bootmenue Jan 26 14:05:40 it doesnt ask you to flash? :P Jan 26 14:05:51 no Jan 26 14:05:54 apt-get install rootsh Jan 26 14:06:06 is it the package with sudo? Jan 26 14:06:10 yeah Jan 26 14:06:12 sudo .... Jan 26 14:06:14 installed Jan 26 14:06:19 hmm Jan 26 14:06:25 basic equipment for me Jan 26 14:06:27 ^^ Jan 26 14:06:41 thopiekar: sudo gainroot; install_bootmenu :P Jan 26 14:09:16 works.. now? yes, yes.... Jan 26 14:10:43 just wondering... will Mer actually require the root password to run things as root? the sudoers file in Maemo rather scared me when I looked at all the exceptions Jan 26 14:11:00 jaem: the next version allows passwordless sudo i think Jan 26 14:11:12 jaem: and those exceptions are a good thing really Jan 26 14:11:13 but will it allow you to turn that off easily? Jan 26 14:11:28 I'd much rather have some inconvenience in exchange for more security Jan 26 14:11:30 oh? Jan 26 14:11:42 yes, just edit the sudoers.d :P Jan 26 14:11:47 fair enough Jan 26 14:11:49 but some things need the exceptions to work Jan 26 14:11:58 but Maemo doesn't have an equivalent to gksudo, though Jan 26 14:12:03 install telnet-server for network recovery? no? a ssh-server is enough right? Jan 26 14:12:07 sudo rm /etc/sudoers.d/02ubuntu-admin && sudo update-sudoers Jan 26 14:12:29 thopiekar: telnetd is smallest Jan 26 14:12:29 thopiekar, just telnet is fine Jan 26 14:12:49 what about dropbear? Jan 26 14:12:59 just say no Jan 26 14:13:29 add initfs to bootmenu.conf? Jan 26 14:13:51 yes Jan 26 14:15:03 finished.. Jan 26 14:15:07 k, and flashing? Jan 26 14:15:11 and asking about rebooting Jan 26 14:15:29 I answered yes ;) Jan 26 14:15:39 k Jan 26 14:15:46 and the device is even rebooting Jan 26 14:15:53 tell me if it shows the "hold menu key" down message when rebooting Jan 26 14:16:18 sisto: Just opened the box! So show me how to get root on this thing. Jan 26 14:16:39 Stskeeps: so I have to reboot again Jan 26 14:16:46 its already finished.. Jan 26 14:16:52 LinuxHack3r: enable extras repo, install rootsh, run sudo gainroot Jan 26 14:16:55 it's on the wiki Jan 26 14:17:12 thopiekar: k - i assume it was there, if you want, check if /mnt/initfs/bootmenu.sh exists Jan 26 14:17:40 ~rootsh Jan 26 14:17:41 well, rootsh is an easy way to get root and it's found here: http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/rootsh/ Jan 26 14:17:45 LinuxHack3r, ^^ :D Jan 26 14:18:00 I suppose that's the easy way ;) Jan 26 14:18:10 * johnx cheats Jan 26 14:18:17 hi all, android here to make maemo friends Jan 26 14:18:37 hello Jan 26 14:18:40 hi gambler Jan 26 14:18:51 hi :p Jan 26 14:19:02 thopiekar: now go ahead and sudo gainroot, apt-get install e2fsprogs zenity gnutar wget Jan 26 14:19:22 whats new in maemo land? are you guys excited about QT or not so much? Jan 26 14:19:36 Step 1: Enable Extra repos. I've not had time to play with it, so where do I do that? Jan 26 14:19:46 ~extras Jan 26 14:19:47 extra, extra, read all about it, extras is http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras Jan 26 14:20:09 Stskeeps: is mer-installer going into extras-devel before 0.7 (one to ask b-man for, I guess) then it can declare its deps properly Jan 26 14:20:21 gambler, yeah, it'll be really nice to have for getting Qt apps running easily. I'm looking forward to PyQt actually Jan 26 14:20:32 Jaffa: yeah, it's my todo to package up :P Jan 26 14:20:37 gambler: I'm pretty stoked about Qt, and I hope that KDE gets plasma-mid off the ground soon Jan 26 14:21:01 Jaffa: problem is bootmenu dependancy too really :P Jan 26 14:21:16 gambler: but that's primarily because I'd rather program in Qt than GTK - Maemo's pretty nice, and Mer looks better Jan 26 14:21:18 is there a sip client for maemo? Jan 26 14:21:21 Stskeeps: bootmenu.conf is there and the device is installing the packages.. Jan 26 14:21:23 yes, built in Jan 26 14:21:24 Simple enough. Jan 26 14:21:28 gambler, built in Jan 26 14:21:31 gambler: default chat client supports SIP Jan 26 14:21:32 gambler: One shipped as standard + Gizmo Jan 26 14:21:45 open source or prop? Jan 26 14:21:48 gizmo is lousy in comparison (no STUN...) Jan 26 14:21:52 Stskeeps: can't bootmenu be nicely installed without breaking anything? Jan 26 14:22:21 gambler: using open source librarises (telepathy) IIRC, closed source GUI Jan 26 14:22:48 Jaffa: is the bootmenu-package actually breaking some devices.. or by users.. Jan 26 14:22:56 Jaffa: as a deb yeah but on the other hand it's fanoush's product :P Jan 26 14:23:27 Stskeeps: the installation has finished.. Jan 26 14:24:02 thopiekar: just checking you have a MMC you can afford being erased? Jan 26 14:24:20 yes the internal one.. (2GB) Jan 26 14:24:20 is anyone here interested in http://sip-communicator.org Jan 26 14:24:23 thopiekar: k Jan 26 14:24:49 thopiekar: wget http://stskeeps.subnetmask.net/mer/mer-armel-n8x0-installer-v0.6.deb; dpkg -i http://stskeeps.subnetmask.net/mer/mer-armel-n8x0-installer-v0.6.deb Jan 26 14:25:11 It seems to be taking forever to be installing openssh Jan 26 14:25:23 LinuxHack3r: it takes time to generate keys Jan 26 14:25:30 Stskeeps: isn't it possible to put the long url into a tinyurl? Jan 26 14:25:36 ^^ Jan 26 14:25:50 thopiekar: dpkg -i mer-armel-n8x0-installer-v0.6.deb Jan 26 14:25:51 i mean Jan 26 14:25:52 sec Jan 26 14:26:16 http://tinyurl.com/cack2x Jan 26 14:26:54 Randomly generated or apt choosing? ;-) Jan 26 14:26:57 cack.. sound like crack..^^ Jan 26 14:27:11 Jaffa: random Jan 26 14:28:06 Stskeeps: do you know of a Windows build of VirtualBox OSE? Shouldn't install the PUEL one on my work laptop, don't fancy building the OSE one from scratch Jan 26 14:28:37 Jaffa: hmm, no, but ideally i hope to get VMDK builds working this week Jan 26 14:28:41 => vmware player able Jan 26 14:28:45 Cool Jan 26 14:30:06 hey peeps Jan 26 14:30:10 gambler: how good would that help anyway? it's in java Jan 26 14:30:13 is there a sip client for the n810? Jan 26 14:30:15 gambler: sorry, no Java on NITs yet Jan 26 14:31:11 and even if there were, it'd be too heavy to use Jan 26 14:31:18 cbx333, yes, built in Jan 26 14:31:34 johnx: ok how do i modify it if I want to talk to a local sip server? Jan 26 14:31:52 Stskeeps: what should i choose? simple or advanced? Jan 26 14:31:56 thopiekar: simple Jan 26 14:31:59 ok Jan 26 14:32:30 * thopiekar thinks that advanced should be interesting, butt... ;D Jan 26 14:32:48 thopiekar: when it asks for URL, use this instead: URL=http://tinyurl.com/dms7lt Jan 26 14:32:55 (write URL=http://tinyurl.com/dms7lt in the field) Jan 26 14:32:56 cbx333, I don't use SIP, but I think the settings for it should be in "Internet Call" Jan 26 14:32:59 or similar Jan 26 14:33:06 lir1, AStorm oh. the wikipedia article needs correcting. it says maemo has a JVM Jan 26 14:33:25 Stskeeps: never mind i used simple already ;) Jan 26 14:33:33 cbx333: Internet call -> tools -> accounts -> sip account -> go to town there ;) Jan 26 14:33:37 johnx: you're a geniues Jan 26 14:33:41 thanks X-Fade Jan 26 14:33:43 gambler: it does? wtf? Jan 26 14:33:56 aah the url will be always asked? Jan 26 14:33:57 gambler: there's jalimo Jan 26 14:34:00 it has a VJVM Jan 26 14:34:01 thopiekar: think so Jan 26 14:34:11 virtual virtual machine Jan 26 14:34:15 it exists only in your head :) Jan 26 14:34:40 gambler: I see nothing about it on wiki Jan 26 14:35:05 AStorm: he's talking about wikipedia article, not maemo wiki Jan 26 14:35:15 AStorm: The tablets have Java: see http://wiki.evolvis.org/jalimo/index.php/Main_Page Jan 26 14:35:17 oden Jan 26 14:35:17 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maemo_(operating_system) <-- that one? there is also /Maemo_Platform Jan 26 14:35:19 http://wiki.evolvis.org/jalimo/index.php/Maemo - wth? Jan 26 14:35:27 that's not official Jan 26 14:35:43 of course not :P Jan 26 14:35:49 Neither's anything else except what Nokia ships. It's still under development, but it is Java Jan 26 14:35:52 so, we now have a JVM - that's something new Jan 26 14:36:02 the better question is whether it works Jan 26 14:36:13 we had it for months Jan 26 14:36:34 it is based on GNU Classpath - I wouldn't expect much Jan 26 14:37:15 + IcedTea Jan 26 14:37:18 It works. Jan 26 14:37:31 It's not quite ready for prime time (no JIT cache for rapid startup) Jan 26 14:37:40 Jaffa: Can I click on a .jad or .jar file in the file manager and run it? Jan 26 14:37:50 Stskeeps: do you thought about a mirror for your files? the download is very slow... (germany) Jan 26 14:38:19 RST38h: I don't /think/ so, but I've not tried. I've only done little things with it to date. Jan 26 14:38:28 thopiekar: yes, but for now this is OK :P (how slow?) Jan 26 14:38:41 Jaffa: If I can't, it does not satisfy my definition of "working" =) Jan 26 14:38:52 350-400 (600) kbit/s Jan 26 14:39:15 even 300 Jan 26 14:39:17 thopiekar: mm, can probably be convinced to mirror some of the files for next reelase Jan 26 14:39:55 RST38h: I caveated with "not yet ready for prime time". If you went to X Terminal and did `java -jar foo.jar', it'd work. Jan 26 14:40:02 I have a ftp-server at home.. but I have only 60kbits upload^^ Jan 26 14:40:09 * Jaffa even has played with OSGi in it, which is pretty heavyweight Java Jan 26 14:41:01 Jaffa: that may be sufficient to make automatic file type binading wirk with just a few config files though Jan 26 14:41:09 binding, shit, can't type Jan 26 14:41:15 Stskeeps: but the maemo.garage-server is very fast! think about uploading it there.. Jan 26 14:41:24 and about the installer... Jan 26 14:41:49 RST38h: indeed Jan 26 14:41:50 thopiekar: It will probably be hosted in the maemo.org repos soon(ish) Jan 26 14:42:24 X-Fade: ok Jan 26 14:45:22 if you use python for the installation you can use urllib to read the newest download-link for a permanent accessable link.. for example in my easy-sdk-project... I use this method to download the maemo-sdk-installer-urls... so if the link has been change i have only to change the content of the dummy-file on the server and not the hole esdk_installer for example... Jan 26 14:45:32 -> Stskeeps Jan 26 14:47:04 thopiekar: ah, the reason why you have to edit the URL is cos it's pointing to a snapshot :P Jan 26 14:47:31 ahh ok Jan 26 14:50:07 * thopiekar is now away for lunch... Jan 26 14:53:04 ah, the fun of regexps Jan 26 14:53:24 Always fun,, IME. Especially the named groups Perl 5.10 brings in Jan 26 14:54:00 I've avoided learning them for a long time, so I figure now is a good time to jump in... Jan 26 14:55:31 Hi Jan 26 14:56:09 johnx: i'm having this problem with my n800, that it reboots after a while when booted from SD Jan 26 14:56:24 johnx: maybe you could give me a hint Jan 26 14:56:26 Jaffa: HAM works in native but not in sb atm, so just build-x86 and build-armel-sb instead of 'build' when building HAM for now Jan 26 14:57:16 er, build-armel straight i mean Jan 26 14:57:26 Stskeeps: Ah, OK - was wondering ;-) Jan 26 14:57:27 disco_stu, does it hang before rebooting? have you tried to run fsck on the sd card? Jan 26 14:57:59 it doesnt hang, what partition should i try fsck in ? Jan 26 14:58:23 boot into flash, and fsck the partition you boot from Jan 26 14:59:42 mm.. i inserted the sd card on the slot after booting from flash and it rebooted Jan 26 14:59:50 maybe my card is borken :( Jan 26 15:00:00 it's possible Jan 26 15:00:12 can you test it in a different card reader? Jan 26 15:00:34 i'll try with my notebook later Jan 26 15:01:40 sry was on the phone Jan 26 15:01:59 Jaffa, im playing around with OSGi in android a bit too Jan 26 15:03:05 the thing i think is coolest about QT on Maemo is that you can use QT designer Jan 26 15:03:44 GUIs become so much easier for me. Jan 26 15:03:59 hmm Jan 26 15:04:03 what user/ does merinstaller belong in? Jan 26 15:04:51 Stskeeps: System? Jan 26 15:05:49 k Jan 26 15:06:05 Stskeeps: Seems the most reasonable to me. Jan 26 15:06:38 s/System/system/ ;-) Jan 26 15:07:08 Jaffa: c/p from the i18n name ;) Jan 26 15:08:00 Definitely user/system from the new list. Jan 26 15:10:17 heh heh. NIN - La Mer coming up on last.fm randomly :> Jan 26 15:11:08 :) Jan 26 15:11:09 it must be a sign! :o Jan 26 15:12:35 this channel is so busy, it actually makes me think someone is developing something here! Jan 26 15:13:20 vai: we are. and we like talking about bacon. Jan 26 15:13:21 :P Jan 26 15:13:39 vai, it's a clever trick to make you think we actually do something :) Jan 26 15:13:39 is the place where you all hide from your managers? Jan 26 15:19:21 evening Meizirkki Jan 26 15:19:24 and qwerty12 Jan 26 15:19:32 hi Stskeeps Jan 26 15:19:43 * RST38h lost his server Jan 26 15:20:16 RST38h, remember where you left it? Jan 26 15:20:32 in limbo Jan 26 15:20:40 wait wait its coming up Jan 26 15:21:08 hey Sts Jan 26 15:21:15 hi Jan 26 15:22:36 Meizirkki: saw the introduction of proper locale now? Jan 26 15:22:50 Meizirkki: http://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/mer-locale.png :) Jan 26 15:23:44 Stskeeps, saw my liberty+droid sans pics btw? :P Jan 26 15:23:48 :P Jan 26 15:23:54 qwerty12: yup, feel free to hack up liberty Jan 26 15:23:57 johnx: i dont get errors with fsck Jan 26 15:24:03 how ? Jan 26 15:24:20 Meizirkki: apt-get update; apt-get dist-upgrade Jan 26 15:24:23 k Jan 26 15:24:24 or how? scrips :> Jan 26 15:24:29 Stskeeps, so you want bitstream replaced with droid for sure? Jan 26 15:24:32 Meizirkki: and dont bring in input-synaptics Jan 26 15:24:46 qwerty12: well, is it more readable? Jan 26 15:25:00 Stskeeps, judge for yourself: http://trac.tspre.org/qwerty12/libdroid/ Jan 26 15:25:03 Stskeeps: ok, how about the keyboard? Jan 26 15:25:10 Meizirkki: keyboard? Jan 26 15:25:17 n8x0 hw Jan 26 15:25:23 any luck? Jan 26 15:25:29 Meizirkki: HAL shouldn't crash anymore Jan 26 15:25:33 that ought to help on some things. Jan 26 15:25:56 okay Jan 26 15:26:16 any objections here against switching to Droid Sans in Mer? :P Jan 26 15:26:21 in the liberty theme Jan 26 15:27:09 (see qwerty's url) Jan 26 15:27:23 it looks good Jan 26 15:27:31 Stskeeps, none at all. Jan 26 15:28:46 ot, but does anyone know if the Nokia 6300 runs S40? Jan 26 15:29:16 It's S40. Jan 26 15:29:26 cool, thanks Jan 26 15:29:33 am just trying to find some gps logging sw Jan 26 15:29:45 bloody mobile phone apps are confusing Jan 26 15:30:10 ~seen zenvoid Jan 26 15:30:21 zenvoid was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 2d 22h 11m 11s ago, saying: 'I'm looking at the sources'. Jan 26 15:30:39 the sources got him! Jan 26 15:32:05 like Sirens? :) Jan 26 15:32:28 qwerty12: you should really learn scm though :P it saves you from so many disasters. bzr is quite easy to handle compared to cvs for instance Jan 26 15:32:46 Stskeeps: where's this Mer video I saw you talking about? Jan 26 15:32:58 on pmo Jan 26 15:33:04 http://www.valeriovalerio.org/?p=206 Jan 26 15:33:08 thanks Jan 26 15:33:24 I'll get up to date and install it tomorrow Jan 26 15:33:29 Stskeeps, maybe, too much going on here to try and learn new stuff (apart from what's on the curriculum of course ;P) :) Jan 26 15:33:29 Mer that is Jan 26 15:33:57 qwerty12: ah, yes, school Jan 26 15:34:04 Wicd reconnects every 10 sec if the "automatically reconnect if connection lost" box is checked. When it's unchecked, it wont reconnect all the time and wifi works well Jan 26 15:34:53 qwerty12: i started classes today but i got so pissed at #4001 that i got to bed quite late.. Jan 26 15:34:56 no important classes though Jan 26 15:35:05 qwerty12: after booting from SD my tablet reboots, any hint ? Jan 26 15:35:22 what is the best maemo app to control pc playback of music? Jan 26 15:35:42 in other words, tablet = remote control / playlist, and laptop is connected to stereo system Jan 26 15:35:48 Stskeeps, hehe, I went to sleep at 2am playing with mer (I usually drop out at about 1) and I felt dead in classes today, more so in science :P Jan 26 15:36:15 maybe a web based remote interface on PC player would be more sensible Jan 26 15:36:31 but i'd hate to scroll around a page and click on little links Jan 26 15:37:21 pupnik_, maemo mpc Jan 26 15:38:39 thanks johnx Jan 26 15:39:18 sure. glad to pass along the info :) Jan 26 15:42:05 * thopiekar is back... Jan 26 15:42:21 wb Jan 26 15:42:22 still dling? Jan 26 15:42:38 no it has finished already.. Jan 26 15:42:45 ok, did it ask for a root password yet? Jan 26 15:42:57 yes and I set one Jan 26 15:43:02 ok, and xterm closed? Jan 26 15:43:11 yes Jan 26 15:43:17 * rebooted Jan 26 15:43:23 ok, then sudo gainroot; refresh_bootmenu.d Jan 26 15:43:45 before refresh_bootmenu.d , umount /mnt/mer Jan 26 15:45:02 oki ... (yes, yes) Jan 26 15:45:36 then it'll reboot and you can hold down menu key while booting Jan 26 15:45:52 what am i supposed to put in Cc field? (in Mer bug report) Jan 26 15:45:54 do it when you see the first nokia logo Jan 26 15:45:55 does anyone here have a spare 770 he'd sell? I could need one for debugging Jan 26 15:45:56 have I to reflash the device Jan 26 15:45:57 ?? Jan 26 15:45:58 Meizirkki: nothing Jan 26 15:46:12 thanks Jan 26 15:46:13 thopiekar: it flashes something in initfs :) Jan 26 15:46:38 http://mmpc.garage.maemo.org/ Jan 26 15:46:50 herzi: the alignment bugs and such still? think we can almost promise you bug reports if they come again :) Jan 26 15:47:15 Stskeeps: but I have already reflashed my device at the beginning... Jan 26 15:47:29 thopiekar: yes, but this one is a script that flashes a new boot configuration to initfs Jan 26 15:47:34 as to include Mer as a boot option Jan 26 15:47:46 ok Jan 26 15:50:31 * thopiekar is now going a parent-teacher meeting ... Jan 26 15:50:36 cu later... Jan 26 15:50:37 hehe, okay, have fun Jan 26 15:51:29 anyone else have a hava and seeing connection issues only with their Nokia? Jan 26 15:52:29 'night all Jan 26 15:52:32 nini Jan 26 15:53:29 Hrm, somebody @nokia has been fiddling with the translations. . . . https://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Package_categories Jan 26 15:54:48 Adding Russian? Jan 26 15:55:17 No, changing it. Jan 26 15:55:30 uppercase -> lowercase looks like Jan 26 15:55:45 and such Jan 26 15:56:07 google translate says it's actually different words Jan 26 15:56:13 * johnx sleeps Jan 26 15:56:14 hmm, first one is a different word Jan 26 15:56:20 last one has had a letter removed Jan 26 15:57:41 how do I get the media player to rescan? Jan 26 15:59:07 qwerty12: does your HD crash when advanced power is installed and you put in charger? :P Jan 26 15:59:14 Stskeeps, nope Jan 26 15:59:17 as in, before on battery, then on charger Jan 26 15:59:53 Nope, I removed the charger and then put it back in and it hasn't crashed. I haven't tried booting and putting in the charger in afterwards, lemme check. Jan 26 16:00:20 * r2d2rogers wonders why he can "hcitool scan" and find bluetooth devices, but the icon for bluetooth doesn't show up in the status bar Jan 26 16:00:37 r2d2rogers: you need to start it manually? Jan 26 16:01:36 Stskeeps: I can open it from the apps menu, and it's set to show the icon when the adapter is present Jan 26 16:01:40 qwerty12: after booting from SD my tablet reboots, any hint ? Jan 26 16:01:45 r2d2rogers: ah, never count on that, i think :P Jan 26 16:02:08 disco_stu, no idea, sorry. a syslog may help Jan 26 16:02:21 * r2d2rogers changes to "always display Icon" Jan 26 16:02:36 BTW great job on the localiation strings.. Jan 26 16:02:38 looks great Jan 26 16:02:52 r2d2rogers: it's a trick Jan 26 16:02:53 :P Jan 26 16:03:02 as in, i made a script to add all the missing strings from old packages Jan 26 16:03:20 Stskeeps, nope, removing and reinserting charger works fine. Jan 26 16:03:36 er, no, I jumped in too quick with that one. Jan 26 16:03:44 boom? Jan 26 16:03:44 :P Jan 26 16:04:01 qwerty12: funny fact, hildon-statusbar-battery did similar Jan 26 16:04:03 HD didn't crash (to my knowledge) but mer restarted :P Jan 26 16:04:06 i wonder if notifications are shot Jan 26 16:05:53 Stskeeps, I may have to sed some files for hildon-theme-liberty. nokia's theme layout is borked in the sense that you can't select the font for matchbox's theme.xml while it's slicing Jan 26 16:06:13 (fonts in gtkrc are handled fine, theme.xml not) Jan 26 16:06:46 qwerty12: i think you have to edit the hildon-theme-layout-4ex Jan 26 16:06:54 and rebuild h-t-l Jan 26 16:07:09 (not sure) Jan 26 16:07:13 lo VDVsx - nice video :) Jan 26 16:07:31 Stskeeps, :) Jan 26 16:07:41 I think you could be right, I noticed that matchbox's theme.xml for liberty has Nokia Sans as the font which is wrong Jan 26 16:08:13 qwerty12: do i have to enable logs ? Jan 26 16:08:23 disco_stu, install ksyslogd Jan 26 16:08:33 can't remember the location of it atm Jan 26 16:08:55 it reboots inmediatly.. Jan 26 16:09:03 i think the sd died Jan 26 16:09:49 Stskeeps, btw, bandwidth on http://repository.mer.tspre.org could be nicer - its slowing down building and apt-get sourceing :)# Jan 26 16:09:56 qwerty12: yeah, i know.. Jan 26 16:10:05 lemme just revert it back to my server now that it's nice and working Jan 26 16:10:18 my power supply was shot so Jan 26 16:11:33 DNS will take effect at some point Jan 26 16:11:42 Cool, thanks Jan 26 16:14:08 * Stskeeps tries to update gtk Jan 26 16:18:41 Ok, fixed the layout & theme. I'll test and then upload if it works :) Jan 26 16:19:32 k Jan 26 16:19:45 (you really ought to push it to the bzr.. :P) Jan 26 16:20:07 bzr? I only understand debian/rules :P Jan 26 16:20:12 :P Jan 26 16:20:21 fair enough, but put a diff up between old and new Jan 26 16:20:44 Sure, will do. Jan 26 16:21:00 then at some point i'll sit you down clockwork orange style and teach you bzr Jan 26 16:21:00 :P Jan 26 16:23:50 Jan 26 16:34:42 Hello again ! Jan 26 16:35:26 Stskeeps, http://trac.tspre.org/qwerty12/hildon-theme-layout-droid-changes & http://trac.tspre.org/qwerty12/hildon-theme-liberty-droid-changes . Works fine. Mind if I send to builder? Jan 26 16:36:08 wau... today is the first day that i think i finally got a *basic* impression of how much work it would be to port maemo bugzilla code to upstream 3.2 Jan 26 16:36:16 qwerty12: go ahead Jan 26 16:36:56 andre__: I guess it is not a task to be done in one afternoon? Jan 26 16:37:08 :-D Jan 26 16:37:10 @WCIndicatorColor << is it fhe font for the nearest toilett locator applet ? Jan 26 16:37:37 Khertan_n810: that would be leet once in a while. Jan 26 16:37:46 héhé Jan 26 16:39:20 mNotes 0.2.9 builded Jan 26 16:39:36 include a bugged google docs sync Jan 26 16:45:27 X-Fade, not one afternoon, but also not two months. i expected it to be more complicated :-P Jan 26 16:45:51 andre__: 3-way merge and stuff? Jan 26 16:46:09 define "3-way merge" :) Jan 26 16:46:40 andre__: original legacy code / changes to that code / new bugzilla? Jan 26 16:47:11 qwerty12: applied to bzr Jan 26 16:47:19 Stskeeps, cool. Jan 26 16:47:29 X-Fade, mostly the first two ones, plus of course taking a (manual) look at the 3.2 code. so kind of, yupp Jan 26 16:48:17 andre__: Yeah, applying old patches against a lot newer moving target is hard. Jan 26 16:48:51 hi where can i have download debian to use with 810? Jan 26 16:49:14 i had expected it to be much more moving :-P Jan 26 16:49:41 andre__: Most patches were done against the styles/templates? Jan 26 16:49:59 yes Jan 26 16:50:01 qwerty12: -4ex compiled, think you can build theme now Jan 26 16:50:09 Yep, saw, I'm doing that now. Jan 26 16:50:13 plus a few against the database scheme Jan 26 16:50:23 hmm, any suggestions on how to kill a mouse that fell into the kitchen sink? Jan 26 16:51:17 i thought maemo is still missing the kitchen sink to be really useful? Jan 26 16:51:27 solmumaha: .. if i started on that list, everyone would think i was a psychopath Jan 26 16:51:35 i'm leaning towards boiling water Jan 26 16:52:03 just catch it :P Jan 26 16:52:12 oh... a real mouse. didn't get that Jan 26 16:52:19 and then boiling water and chemicals to sterilize the sink afterwards Jan 26 16:52:36 no, it's a mole, they spread the puumala virus Jan 26 16:53:00 take a glass, put it on the mouse, take some thick paper, put it under the glass, move them out of the building Jan 26 16:53:15 nah, it will just come back Jan 26 16:53:29 Blender Jan 26 16:53:34 it has to die, i just need to figure out how Jan 26 16:53:42 * wazd just watched "The Curious Case of Benjamin Button" Jan 26 16:53:49 hitting seems so brutal and i'm kinda bored of that Jan 26 16:53:58 wazd: is it male friendly? gf wants to see it with me too :P Jan 26 16:54:00 this is one of the greatest movies I've fucking ever seen Jan 26 16:54:25 fair enough Jan 26 16:54:40 solmumaha, acid! Jan 26 16:55:09 Cook it and eat it Jan 26 16:55:17 maybe i'll drop a trap in the sink and let it end it's days Jan 26 16:55:40 *its Jan 26 16:56:16 Damn I cant describe it, it's just super awesome! Jan 26 16:57:10 * Stskeeps is kinda looking forward to 'the time travellers wife' movie Jan 26 16:57:12 excellent book Jan 26 16:59:41 I'm really ashame that I've missed Button in theatres Jan 26 16:59:56 But I'd definitely buy a DVD Jan 26 17:00:45 wazd: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Time_Traveler%27s_Wife <- should consider reading this one :) Jan 26 17:03:44 problem solved Jan 26 17:04:50 qwerty12: testing packages Jan 26 17:05:00 :) Jan 26 17:06:18 X-Fade: ha, you reference the scp example on Uploading_to_Extras, but I only added it over the weekend :-) Jan 26 17:06:27 In fact, yesterday morning, I think. Jan 26 17:06:30 hald is't ready or running in Mer o_0 Jan 26 17:06:36 Jaffa: I altered it this morning even ;) Jan 26 17:06:37 why? Jan 26 17:06:42 Meizirkki: upgrade hal Jan 26 17:06:44 X-Fade: indeed, I now see the warning. Cool. Jan 26 17:06:59 Meizirkki: make sure it's the "mer" version Jan 26 17:07:06 Stskeeps: ok Jan 26 17:07:32 But I must have documented it a few times as this issue came up more than once. Jan 26 17:11:37 Stskeeps: no h-i-m for me on 770, rebooting for double check Jan 26 17:12:35 gimme the version when time is, we had a bit of HIM trouble the last days Jan 26 17:16:12 qwerty12: nice soft font indeed Jan 26 17:16:54 Yep :). Some font sizes could do with being a bit better imho, but I'm not graphically minded so I'll probably mess things up :P Jan 26 17:21:34 Stskeeps: ii hildon-input-method 1:2.1.5-1mer2 Jan 26 17:21:43 r2d2rogers: yeah, broken version Jan 26 17:21:50 downgrade to whatever is in repo atm Jan 26 17:21:50 Stskeeps: but ii hildon-input-method-framework is 1:2.1.6-1mer2 Jan 26 17:21:57 k Jan 26 17:25:30 Stskeeps, btw, hildon-plugins-settings work from the offset but dependencies are fucked up. Want me to take osso-app-killer from diablo or fremantle repo for starters? Jan 26 17:25:40 oh dear god, osso-app-killer.. Jan 26 17:27:06 qwerty12: what does it use it for? Jan 26 17:27:19 Stskeeps, no idea, I'll check Jan 26 17:27:33 I think I may know actually, lemme verify Jan 26 17:28:03 Yep, restore factory settings etc from control panel menu Jan 26 17:28:09 ah, yes. Jan 26 17:28:19 so it just adds scripts for it? Jan 26 17:28:22 as in, h-p-s Jan 26 17:28:23 yep Jan 26 17:28:29 remove dependancy for now Jan 26 17:28:43 add a task to list "get osso-app-killer sane" Jan 26 17:28:49 Easily done. Want me to remove the entries from the menu too for now? Jan 26 17:29:02 nah, let them be for now Jan 26 17:29:05 k Jan 26 17:29:54 I'll rebuild hildon-control-panel & build hildon-plugins-settings. Only change I needed to do was to eradicate Werror Jan 26 17:30:04 k Jan 26 17:30:39 The standalone hildon-plugins-settings is fucked up to hell but the control panel applet works like a charm (mostly anyway) Jan 26 17:31:02 i wonder.. droid sans "feels" faster Jan 26 17:32:35 re Jan 26 17:33:26 qwerty12: note on #mer/jaiku that you switched to droid sans too btw Jan 26 17:34:07 Done. Jan 26 17:34:34 ta Jan 26 17:35:14 * Stskeeps tries to install xournal Jan 26 17:35:53 * Khertan_n810 will remove kinetic scrolling from his apps ... too slow Jan 26 17:36:04 Wait for the next tablet :) Jan 26 17:36:27 or use hildon pannable areas (i think) Jan 26 17:36:27 :P Jan 26 17:37:47 pannable area ? Jan 26 17:38:00 new widget in fremantle.. think it's kinetic scrolling stuff Jan 26 17:38:02 i still don t what is this widget Jan 26 17:38:07 ah oki Jan 26 17:38:23 at this time i ve tryed with mokoui Jan 26 17:39:28 and the next tablet will not be available soon :) Jan 26 17:39:32 and i dont want to let some older user not able to use my softs Jan 26 17:40:22 Khertan_n810, hopefully sooner than that. :( Jan 26 17:41:19 * ccooke had a thoguht for a finger-friendly interface the other day, but isn't sure if it's feasible pre-cortex Jan 26 17:42:21 http://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/mer-xournal.png Jan 26 17:42:27 it really should have been this easy from the start Jan 26 17:44:26 Stskeeps: is that upstream Xournal? Ah. Yes. Jan 26 17:44:27 ping ? Jan 26 17:44:42 Really want a Gtk+ LD_PRELOAD hack for Hildonisation Jan 26 17:48:34 hEy. I've got my 128m minisd... Can mer work w/ it? :) Jan 26 17:48:52 timelE61i: it's about ~370m unpacked sorry Jan 26 17:49:00 we fit in about 150mb flash atm Jan 26 17:49:22 without stripping down much (yet) Jan 26 17:50:37 um Jan 26 17:52:33 Dead easy, see: http://michael.toren.net/slides/lkm-alternatives/slide007.html Jan 26 17:53:01 Jaffa: have fun ;) Jan 26 17:57:07 Stskeeps: GtkWindow -> HildonWindow should be relatively straightforward (although re-entry might be fun) Jan 26 17:57:26 GtkMenuBar -> HildonMenu should be possible, I've got a semi-automated method for doing it anyway Jan 26 18:11:48 is there any bind of glade for python in maemo? Jan 26 18:12:04 think so? Jan 26 18:14:53 Stskeeps: no joy on h-i-m downgrade... Jan 26 18:15:06 r2d2rogers: yeah, - i had to get an entirely new image myself Jan 26 18:15:14 ahha Jan 26 18:15:25 Stskeeps: I have some feedback about mer... Jan 26 18:15:36 Stskeeps: I might try and get a HildonWindow LD_PRELOAD going tonight (first for Maemo, since we haven't got run-standalone.sh in mer) Jan 26 18:15:48 darn, I'd just cloned the extra images that the advanced -backlight gripes about missing Jan 26 18:15:51 thopiekar: mm? does it work? Jan 26 18:16:00 yes"! Jan 26 18:16:21 good ;) Jan 26 18:16:24 1. it seems that mer is using networkmanager (+) Jan 26 18:16:43 2. boot takes even tooooooo much time (-) Jan 26 18:16:45 well a plus.. sortof, it is ok, but i like ICD too :P Jan 26 18:17:02 thopiekar: we don't disable logs or optimize at all, atm, but thats how it is Jan 26 18:17:04 ICD? Jan 26 18:17:11 nokia's connection daemon Jan 26 18:18:05 keep it like this.. use opensource-software like in normal distris... Jan 26 18:18:27 oh, most stuff will be OSS, if we can :P Jan 26 18:19:05 notification windows are too large in thier width Jan 26 18:19:12 thopiekar: i think that's a new nokia thing really Jan 26 18:19:15 thopiekar: did you try apt-get install php-mysql5 yet? ;) Jan 26 18:19:22 er, php5-mysql Jan 26 18:19:51 this would be Jake24-4's try to install mysql... Jan 26 18:19:53 ;) Jan 26 18:19:54 hehe Jan 26 18:20:00 I never needed it.. Jan 26 18:20:17 now, if you would teach him how to do what you just did, the rest of us would be a lot happier :P Jan 26 18:20:32 hehe Jan 26 18:21:07 Stskeeps: have you and your team thought about them(e)ing? Jan 26 18:21:18 * Stskeeps points to wazd and co Jan 26 18:21:25 thopiekar: that theme you're seeing isn't the normal nokia theme Jan 26 18:21:43 maybe a minimalistic theme with "powerful" widgets? Jan 26 18:22:07 seen http://tabletui.wordpress.com/ ? ;) Jan 26 18:22:08 Stskeeps: I know like on ( every ) maemo sdk.. Jan 26 18:22:38 I really would like such a theme... Jan 26 18:23:01 how is it called in english themeing or theming? Jan 26 18:23:09 good question Jan 26 18:23:18 the second looks strange actually Jan 26 18:23:26 thopiekar: we're playing around with the layout of hildon-desktop at least Jan 26 18:23:40 Stskeeps: ok Jan 26 18:23:54 did you try and install let's say, midori, on mer? Jan 26 18:24:42 midori isn't it the browser... i think I have seen it on serval youtube-clips Jan 26 18:25:52 yeah, it is Jan 26 18:26:15 closed-source/opensource-wallpaper.. please, what a question! leave like me closesource beside.. Stskeeps: you could start with your windows then... Jan 26 18:26:16 ^^ Jan 26 18:26:24 hehe Jan 26 18:31:20 * lcuk used wine to solve a problem today Jan 26 18:32:34 I really like linux and I never had problems with it... some of my friend are even flameing ... wua i have a virus... my windows is getting slower.. I actually never had problems like that because I keep my system clean of silly programs and games.. but there was a bug where I thought I will never ever use Windows again.. when I pluged in a device like a usb-stick or other usb-things the hole usb system of windows break and so I had to replu Jan 26 18:33:03 hehe, i have problems with linux occasionally Jan 26 18:33:32 Wah? Jan 26 18:33:39 qwerty12: I was about to point out that your change to Mer/Springs/0.7 didn't use an ISO-8601 date format (YYYY-MM-DD - sortable, see) but it's only the majority which have that format. Still, consistency good Jan 26 18:34:28 Jaffa, damn, it's the way I usually write dates. Will note that for next time :) Jan 26 18:37:18 qwerty12: you seem to still be living in 2008 ;) Jan 26 18:37:36 dob, hah. Evidently >.< Jan 26 18:37:52 * qwerty12 blames it on lack of sleep :) Jan 26 18:57:23 * thopiekar is searching for devels of openismus.com.... Jan 26 19:28:35 Stskeeps, apt-get update ; apt-get install hildon-plugins-settings-cpa will install working control panel & applet to move/add etc statusbar applets with en locales working Jan 26 19:28:51 k, so control panel works now? Jan 26 19:28:57 yep Jan 26 19:29:26 took me a shitload of time to fix & build ;) Jan 26 19:29:45 k Jan 26 19:30:36 qwerty12-mer: is there a way to modify the software-keybard-layout? Jan 26 19:30:43 +o Jan 26 19:36:41 qwerty12_N800: testin' Jan 26 19:38:46 hm this is cool Jan 26 19:38:48 http://www.nfb.ca/ Jan 26 19:38:58 canada opens some films Jan 26 19:39:43 qwerty12_N800: odd q, fremantle CP or diablo CP? Jan 26 19:40:12 remoo Jan 26 19:40:18 Stskeeps, I used the CP that was already in repository.mer Jan 26 19:40:22 hi RST38h Jan 26 19:40:24 http://poster.genstab.ru/images/ww2_eng075_Keep_Mum.jpg Jan 26 19:40:31 qwerty12_N800: k Jan 26 19:41:32 qwerty12_N800: i'm not sre why but i have two application menus.. Jan 26 19:42:30 qwerty12_N800: adding to imager list Jan 26 19:43:18 Stskeeps, eurgh. i thought that only happened with the standalone version :( Jan 26 19:57:22 whats the name of the application that runs and put a wireless icon at upper right Jan 26 19:58:09 Stskeeps: I get two application menus after reboot with the control panel app also. Jan 26 19:58:16 fair enough Jan 26 19:58:18 at least it works Jan 26 19:58:18 :P Jan 26 19:58:23 2 is better than one! Jan 26 19:58:24 :P Jan 26 19:59:17 Yup yup Jan 26 20:02:20 did you get your HIM resurrected? Jan 26 20:03:01 sts: did you file that bug about ... hrm something :) Jan 26 20:03:08 timeless: no, i did not :P Jan 26 20:03:35 Stskeeps: rebooting again Jan 26 20:05:23 Stskeeps: nope, will try the re-image tonight Jan 26 20:05:26 sts: ok, so what was the bug Jan 26 20:05:35 and do you happen to know how i might demo it? :) Jan 26 20:05:38 timeless: recognise Jan 26 20:05:51 right, ok Jan 26 20:05:53 r2d2rogers: i will push out 770 image tonight too i think Jan 26 20:05:56 i guess ti's time for me to file Jan 26 20:07:20 Anyone knows where Jalimo J2ME package is? Jan 26 20:07:44 rst www.jalimo.org? Jan 26 20:07:47 Hello ! Jan 26 20:07:51 hi khertan Jan 26 20:08:12 woginde: does not appear to offer any packages at all Jan 26 20:08:22 rst *sigh* Jan 26 20:08:48 https://wiki.evolvis.org/jalimo/index.php/Maemo Jan 26 20:08:55 Stskeeps: cool, I know I still need to dig out the 770 wifi module stuff. I have a CD-R to burn a 32 OS to install tonight Jan 26 20:09:25 r2d2rogers: otherwise virtualbox + mer + scratchbox probably works.. Jan 26 20:09:27 :P Jan 26 20:09:33 (fear the level of indirection) Jan 26 20:09:52 yeah, but I wanna ditch the 64 bit flash issues also Jan 26 20:10:10 true Jan 26 20:10:40 rst https://wiki.evolvis.org/jalimo/index.php/Packages Jan 26 20:10:51 rst deb http://jalimo.evolvis.org/repository/maemo/ maemo4.0 user Jan 26 20:10:55 * Stskeeps tries building a vmdk of mer Jan 26 20:10:58 aha Jan 26 20:11:01 thanks Jan 26 20:11:47 How can i get adv-power to work in Mer? Jan 26 20:12:02 Meiz_n810: hald-addon-bme + adv-power, but i have troubles with it crashing Jan 26 20:12:24 ok, this is from .xsession-errors: http://pastebin.com/m148835fc Jan 26 20:12:48 did you reboot? Jan 26 20:13:31 yes Jan 26 20:13:52 hmm Jan 26 20:14:21 but i just noticed i am missing hald-addon-bme .. Jan 26 20:14:44 yeah, get it from the maemo repository Jan 26 20:15:25 yep Jan 26 20:17:00 Meiz_n810, hald-addon-bme installed? Jan 26 20:17:12 sts: ok filed 4044 Jan 26 20:17:29 qwerty: Meiz_n810> but i just noticed i am missing hald-addon-bme Jan 26 20:18:12 shame it's one of nokia non redistributable shit :( Jan 26 20:18:33 qwerty12_N800: at least it's plug and play.. Jan 26 20:19:51 * Stskeeps tries to automatise vmdk builds Jan 26 20:22:40 * Khertan_n810 is killing is google docs account Jan 26 20:29:02 lol there nice film on tv ... Alien Evolution 2 Jan 26 20:29:05 huhu Jan 26 20:29:38 hohoho Jan 26 20:41:10 hi all Jan 26 20:41:43 i have question about n810's battery life Jan 26 20:43:19 how much it will last with just mail checking every hour for example? Jan 26 20:43:33 some days Jan 26 20:43:56 woglinde, great, thnx! Jan 26 20:48:17 Just got my nokia 810 today...but when trying to install canola...it get a message saying it cannot install because dependencies haven't been met. Jan 26 20:48:38 hack to the shell Jan 26 20:48:42 got root Jan 26 20:48:46 and try again with apt Jan 26 20:49:08 Ok...but how? Jan 26 20:49:09 I called in to Nokia Tech Support with my blown MMC... Jan 26 20:49:23 your are the hacker Jan 26 20:49:24 not me Jan 26 20:49:26 they're going to cover it, but I have to pay shipping from BC, Canada, to Alabama,US Jan 26 20:49:27 haha Jan 26 20:49:42 LinuxHack3r, or install extra repository's Jan 26 20:49:42 LinuxHack3r: do you by any chance have the extras-devel repo enabled? Jan 26 20:49:56 I believe so... Jan 26 20:50:00 because it will cause conflicts if you do Jan 26 20:50:01 oh Jan 26 20:50:06 generally, you don't want that one Jan 26 20:50:23 if you need an app from -devel, install it, but then disable the repo Jan 26 20:50:34 install roots Jan 26 20:50:39 jaem: Oh....I don't have have extras-devel...no Jan 26 20:50:41 rootsh Jan 26 20:50:43 okay Jan 26 20:50:51 then go into the terminal, get root... Jan 26 20:51:01 type in apt-get install canola2 Jan 26 20:51:04 and tell me what it says Jan 26 20:51:09 jaem: sucks, but at least that's good they would cover it Jan 26 20:51:26 How do I get root? Jan 26 20:51:36 install rootsh in the app mgr Jan 26 20:51:36 hack hack Jan 26 20:51:53 it's on the wiki Jan 26 20:51:59 what's the command to the bot for that, again? Jan 26 20:52:15 hackers dont need wikis Jan 26 20:52:20 ~root Jan 26 20:52:21 rumour has it, root is not a Good Thing to use when using IRC. Please use a different account. Jan 26 20:52:28 haha Jan 26 20:52:29 *g* Jan 26 20:52:48 you know, I've heard that rumour too... *wink* Jan 26 20:53:27 Stskeeps: I do like Nokia tech support - their first tier knows what they're talking about, and they'll readily transfer you up the chain if they can't help you Jan 26 20:53:33 not like my fights with HP... Jan 26 20:53:44 cool. could you blog about that? Jan 26 20:53:53 me? Jan 26 20:53:53 i really am trying to convince people to call nokia support Jan 26 20:53:57 yes Jan 26 20:54:08 but it helps to have positive cases to point to Jan 26 20:54:25 well, the only blog I have is defunct and terrible, but I could always start up a new one for this purpose Jan 26 20:54:41 the worst that can happen is that it will become defunct too :P Jan 26 20:54:41 don't call it "in praise of nokia", that'd be bad :) Jan 26 20:54:42 sure Jan 26 20:54:43 Ok..I get this: Jan 26 20:54:48 lol Jan 26 20:54:52 okay Jan 26 20:55:05 ~pastebin Jan 26 20:55:06 The following packages have umnet dependencies: canola2: Depends: python2.5-terra, canolad Jan 26 20:55:06 [~pastebin] A "pastebin" is a web-based service where you can paste anything over 3 lines without flooding the channel. Here are links to a few : http://www.pastebin.com , http://pastebin.ca , http://channels.debian.net/paste , http://paste.lisp.org , http://www.rafb.net/paste Jan 26 20:55:13 canaola-thumbnailer Jan 26 20:55:22 we don't want people to think you're a sockpuppet Jan 26 20:57:36 LinuxHack3r: do you have both free and non-free components enabled? Jan 26 20:57:43 timeless: now for a name... Jan 26 20:57:57 sorry, atm my names aren't likely to be what you want Jan 26 20:57:59 good luck Jan 26 20:58:05 i picked 404 File Not Found Jan 26 20:58:08 so don't take that :) Jan 26 20:58:09 haha Jan 26 20:58:12 aaww Jan 26 20:58:13 http://viper.haque.net/~timeless/blog/index.xml Jan 26 20:58:15 LinuxHack3r: you're on Chinook right ? Jan 26 20:58:26 there are a couple of http errors left iirc Jan 26 20:58:29 chinook? Jan 26 20:58:30 but do check before considering Jan 26 20:58:35 LinuxHack3r: the version of maemo OS Jan 26 20:58:43 do a cat /etc/osso_software_version Jan 26 20:58:44 I was thinking 0s2008?/ Jan 26 20:58:54 Propably chinook then Jan 26 20:59:04 yep, ppl with chinook are having this problem Jan 26 20:59:04 402 is probably available :) Jan 26 20:59:20 best solution would be for you to upgrade to diablo Jan 26 20:59:21 alot better Jan 26 20:59:34 How do i update? Jan 26 20:59:38 timeless: I could use 302, and just have it redirect to your blog Jan 26 21:00:28 lfelipe: How do I update? Jan 26 21:00:37 * timeless frowns Jan 26 21:00:41 google blog search isn't finding my blog Jan 26 21:00:41 ~flashing Jan 26 21:00:42 from memory, flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware Jan 26 21:01:22 LinuxHack3r: after the upgrade to Diablo, you won't need to reflash again Jan 26 21:01:41 but now you're gonna have to use the flasher tool to reflash your device Jan 26 21:01:50 more info on t he link that infobot posted Jan 26 21:02:11 that reminds me of the special clamshell package opening tool I saw... that came in a clamshell package Jan 26 21:02:43 lol >.< Jan 26 21:03:44 I don't exactly get this..I'm in Linux on my desktop/ Basically...I'll hoke up the nokia to my computer...download a flasher..and then run it? Problem solved? Jan 26 21:03:49 * thopiekar is now going offline: cu! Jan 26 21:05:29 lfelipe: ^ Jan 26 21:05:58 LinuxHack3r: the Diablo firmwares allow you to update without having to flash again Jan 26 21:06:08 so, in effect, you're flashing so you don't have to flash Jan 26 21:06:32 I know...I know...but I'm saying this first time... Jan 26 21:06:33 kind of like when my cell provider started charging me an extra dollar so I wouldn't have to pay for incoming texts :S Jan 26 21:07:01 I don't follow Jan 26 21:07:27 LinuxHack3r: yep Jan 26 21:07:36 you're going to download the image, the flasher Jan 26 21:08:08 lfelipe: Is OS2008 also diable? Jan 26 21:08:15 yes Jan 26 21:08:29 then run the flasher, plug your device and let it fly Jan 26 21:08:30 diablo is the latest version of os08 Jan 26 21:09:13 lfelipe: Do I want the flasherrr-3.0 of the static version? Jan 26 21:09:14 http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/d3.php Jan 26 21:09:48 LinuxHack3r: get the static version, more likely that it will work without problems Jan 26 21:10:21 can i start the kernel with a different commandline using "flasher-3.0"? i tried with "-b", but it does not work (looking at /proc/cmdline) Jan 26 21:10:52 LinuxHack3r: http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware Jan 26 21:10:55 lfelipe: Is this the link I use for the rom?/// http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N810.php Jan 26 21:11:12 LinuxHack3r: yep Jan 26 21:14:39 lfelipe: After the rom is downloaded...how long should this take? Jan 26 21:15:58 LinuxHack3r: flashing is really fast Jan 26 21:16:09 * timeless rotfl Jan 26 21:16:18 we were just challenged by internal security to show our id Jan 26 21:16:20 lfelipe: Can I do it with the power plugged in? Jan 26 21:16:24 i responded by asking for his Jan 26 21:16:27 he was unable to comply Jan 26 21:16:28 LinuxHack3r: np Jan 26 21:16:52 timeless: lol Jan 26 21:18:31 timeless: and so the spy mission to discover RX-51 continues.. disguised as a security guard! Jan 26 21:19:02 (i'm willing to bet you let him go) Jan 26 21:19:36 Ok, J2ME is *broken* Jan 26 21:19:47 too bad Jan 26 21:19:48 lol Jan 26 21:20:09 * RST38h kinda hoped he will be able to download a few Evolvis packages and run a game Jan 26 21:20:41 No sucj luck of course Jan 26 21:21:05 lfelipe: On the n810,,,what is considered the swap button? Jan 26 21:22:13 swap button ? why ? Jan 26 21:22:51 the [ ]] button on the left side of the screen Jan 26 21:22:53 Nevermind..I think I done it. Way to test if worked right? Jan 26 21:23:24 LinuxHack3r: when you boot, do you get a setup screen, that same one that you got when you first turned the device on ? Jan 26 21:23:26 yeah, we let him go Jan 26 21:23:36 Yes..yes yes yes.... Jan 26 21:23:59 So now try canola2? Jan 26 21:24:02 LinuxHack3r: then it probably worked, if you wnat to check, cat /etc/osso_software_version to see which version is installed Jan 26 21:24:05 LinuxHack3r: yep Jan 26 21:24:09 just enable extras and install it Jan 26 21:24:15 should work just fine Jan 26 21:24:24 lfelipe: extras...where was that? Jan 26 21:24:36 Application Manager Jan 26 21:25:16 Simple enough...last time I clicked some link on the web that did it supposedly. Jan 26 21:25:46 b-man|hypothermi: that bad? Jan 26 21:25:57 lfelipe: And it's working! BTW...do you know plaxo? Is it possible to sync with it? Jan 26 21:26:03 h-hhhi Jan 26 21:26:19 plaxo ? never heard about it Jan 26 21:26:31 * b-man|hypothermi just finished running 3.5 miles in the cole Jan 26 21:26:34 d Jan 26 21:27:11 b-man|hypothermi: once you regain the function of some appendage to touch your keyboard, give me a diff file from merinstaller_1.9.3-1mer1.tar.gz to whatever you have now, so i can add it to https://code.launchpad.net/~mer-committers/m-r/merinstaller Jan 26 21:27:25 i've been working on making a debian package for you so we can get it into extras Jan 26 21:27:26 ok Jan 26 21:28:02 * b-man|hypothermi was running with a t-shirt and running shorts in 20 F weather - my track coach made me Jan 26 21:28:17 ouch Jan 26 21:28:23 b-man|hypothermi: and that is why geeks avoid sports Jan 26 21:28:24 :P Jan 26 21:28:42 * b-man|hypothermi is a little tramatised atm Jan 26 21:29:39 * b-man|hypothermi will be back - getting some hot tea ;) Jan 26 21:32:27 How can I add mp3 playback? Jan 26 21:32:34 should be there by standard Jan 26 21:32:36 Make that *mp4 playback. Jan 26 21:32:55 *cough* Jan 26 21:33:35 LinuxHack3r: if Maemo's Media Player can play it, then it should already work Jan 26 21:33:41 otherwise, just install the mplayer package Jan 26 21:34:07 lfelipe: It cannot...but mplayer should do it? Jan 26 21:34:35 LinuxHack3r: most likely yes Jan 26 21:36:00 I have some bash scripts....things that combine wget and ssh...I was told I'd have to "install" bash? Jan 26 21:36:24 yeah, it's in extras Jan 26 21:36:24 yes Jan 26 21:36:30 we have busybox sh, but not bash Jan 26 21:36:32 by default, it uses Busybox Jan 26 21:36:33 hun, you might have to do it if the scripts have "bash"ism's Jan 26 21:36:53 bash2 in extras, bash3 in extras-devel Jan 26 21:36:56 but if they are simple enough, busybox might work Jan 26 21:37:14 lfelipe: They are simple...I'll try. All they do is save typing basically. Jan 26 21:37:25 I suppose I'll need wget though..it in the repos? Jan 26 21:37:29 yep Jan 26 21:37:39 This thing is amazing. Jan 26 21:38:10 LinuxHack3r: indeed Jan 26 21:38:17 I couldn't do without it Jan 26 21:39:33 jaem: I can't find wget. Jan 26 21:39:53 it should be in extras Jan 26 21:39:59 are you going through the app managere? Jan 26 21:40:06 Yes...you do it with terminal? Jan 26 21:40:13 you don't have to Jan 26 21:40:22 go to the app manager menu Jan 26 21:40:24 I'm going through app managerr. Jan 26 21:40:41 ...Settings|Catalogs Jan 26 21:40:46 tell me when you're there Jan 26 21:41:10 What do you mean. Settings|Catalogs? Jan 26 21:41:24 sorry - Menu->Settings->Catalogs Jan 26 21:41:26 on the menu Jan 26 21:41:48 I don't have a catalogs? Jan 26 21:41:53 one sec Jan 26 21:41:59 I forget what it's called Jan 26 21:41:59 I have an Application manager though. Jan 26 21:42:05 yes Jan 26 21:42:08 the menu in that app Jan 26 21:42:13 tap the titlebar Jan 26 21:42:18 sorry, that was ambiguous Jan 26 21:42:28 Tools...catalogs...maemo extras is on. Jan 26 21:42:37 okay Jan 26 21:42:40 click "new" Jan 26 21:42:51 k Jan 26 21:42:51 in the URL field, enter "matrix" (no http) Jan 26 21:42:55 then click cancel Jan 26 21:42:57 :P Jan 26 21:43:07 is there any version of bridge-utils already running on maemo? i had tried to generate a debian file for it and installed but brctl is not working well ... it always says something like "add bridge failed: Package not installed" when i try to add a new bridge ... does it has something related with the CONFIG_BRIDGE in kernel configuration file? Jan 26 21:43:37 Which one! Jan 26 21:43:46 only you can make that decision... Jan 26 21:43:48 jk Jan 26 21:43:49 Red Jan 26 21:44:02 now what? Jan 26 21:44:10 hehe matrix mode :P Jan 26 21:44:12 now you have entered the advanced mode Jan 26 21:44:18 so you should be able to see wget Jan 26 21:44:21 and install it Jan 26 21:44:28 LinuxHack3r: hi Jan 26 21:44:28 but yes, you could have done it from the console Jan 26 21:44:49 apt-get install wget is faster than use matrix mode Jan 26 21:45:03 StOrM_NW: yes, but it's nice to have Jan 26 21:45:06 sisto: Hi Jan 26 21:45:28 LinuxHack3r: did you finally get it? Jan 26 21:45:37 sisto: today... Jan 26 21:45:38 Oh noes.... someone's been introduced to Red-Pill? That utterly hacky abomination that causes more problems than it's ever solved... Jan 26 21:45:57 So...would it be possible to setup synergy on this thing? Jan 26 21:46:05 lol, just dont forget to disable the matrix mode after used Jan 26 21:46:08 Linuxhack3r: I think it's been done Jan 26 21:46:19 Jaffa: sorry >< Jan 26 21:46:27 LinuxHack3r: what have you done with it so far? Jan 26 21:46:35 b-man: an idea: the mer installer first downloads the .tar.gz onto the card with wget and then extracts it, right? How about checking if the user has curl installed, and if it exists, use it to pipe the .tar.gz straight to tar without having it hit the card at all? This way mer could be installed on smaller cards (I think it currently required just above 512 MB) Jan 26 21:46:36 Jaffa_, nod Jan 26 21:46:50 dob: curl needs a way to pick up a transmission again then ideally Jan 26 21:46:50 sisto: Took it to school and connected to the network? Jan 26 21:47:00 LinuxHack3r: did you one of those stupid "unboxing" videos? haha Jan 26 21:47:17 dob: shure :) Jan 26 21:48:04 sisto: Did I do it? No..should have though ;) Jan 26 21:48:05 LinuxHack3r: congrats on the new toy! Jan 26 21:48:06 allthough i'm not shure what curl is :p Jan 26 21:48:31 btw, does Nokia have any particular policy on how they like to be mentioned on unofficial sites (e.g. blags) Jan 26 21:48:39 LinuxHack3r: i'd watch it! haha Jan 26 21:48:44 sisto: Thanks...It's amazing. Jan 26 21:48:52 b-man: you know 'cat'? curl is "cat url" Jan 26 21:49:11 oh Jan 26 21:49:45 I'm just wondering, because I have known some companies to request certain conventions with regards to their TM's Jan 26 21:50:06 jaem: Nah, Nokia haven't cared that much. Jan 26 21:50:15 okay Jan 26 21:50:27 just checking Jan 26 21:50:28 yeah, some pretty radical things have been written once in a while :P Jan 26 21:50:38 Stskeeps: do you mean something like retry or something like wget --continue? Jan 26 21:50:46 dob: both i guess Jan 26 21:51:09 retry and continue until the whole stream has been catted Jan 26 21:53:16 Jaffa: would you mind if I'll try to remake current Mer wiki graphics?)\ Jan 26 21:53:18 * Stskeeps watches his vmdk start up Jan 26 21:53:36 Stskeeps: there's retry in curl. Wouldn't it be almost the same as continue if you gave it an ~infinite number of retries? :) Jan 26 21:53:44 dob: true Jan 26 21:54:18 wazd: btw we're now using "Droid sans" for our themes, if you want to adopt some of it for artwork Jan 26 21:54:22 wazd: I like my buttons, but I'm not convinced about the background - it's not quite turned out how I wanted. Although, I'm not precious. I can send you the Inkscape SVG file for the buttons if you want to hack on 'em Jan 26 21:54:22 (free font) Jan 26 21:54:25 hi ! Jan 26 21:54:26 any site that explains how to configure kernel from source of maemo base kernel? ... i think i need to enable the CONFIG_BRIDGE ... i guess the official release doesnt provides CONFIG_BRIDGE as default, am i wrong? Jan 26 21:54:34 hi dl9pf Jan 26 21:54:50 i' Jan 26 21:55:27 i need some advice packaging for maemo/creating a debian package Jan 26 21:55:27 woo, my auto-vmdk'er works \o/ Jan 26 21:55:51 atm i'm stuck creating the debian/control Jan 26 21:55:57 Jaffa: no need, I can rebuild them easily :) Jan 26 21:56:17 wazd: show off :-p Jan 26 21:56:24 took me ages. I'll stick to coding. Jan 26 21:56:40 LinuxHack3r: does it have a good signal compared to a laptop? Jan 26 21:56:40 probably i missed some values ... http://pastebin.com/m9314b9 Jan 26 21:57:09 wAzd? Jan 26 21:57:24 * VDVsx wonders why "af-sb-init" doesn't run in fremantle alpha sdk :( Jan 26 21:57:32 Stskeeps: cool! Jan 26 21:57:33 VDVsx: no window manager probably Jan 26 21:57:43 Jaffa_: it's dirty dirty though and stolen Jan 26 21:57:54 You mean "re-used" ;-) Jan 26 21:58:00 And dirty's fine if it works. Jan 26 21:58:03 Stskeeps, I started matchbox in backround Jan 26 21:58:05 sisto: Dunno..don't have one..but it seems good enough. Jan 26 21:58:10 timelE61i: yes? Jan 26 21:58:41 timeless: I got sidetracked, but I have a blag now Jan 26 21:58:48 http://ffejery.wordpress.com/ Jan 26 21:58:51 nothing there yet Jan 26 21:58:51 LinuxHack3r: have you tried the gps? Jan 26 21:59:17 So, you're the ui wizard? Jan 26 21:59:23 jaem: if you have a 'maemo' category/tag, get it syndicated on planet.maemo.org Jan 26 21:59:30 Jaffa: sure :D Jan 26 21:59:46 timelE61i: sort of :) Jan 26 21:59:52 * jaem lands his spaceship on Planet Maemo Jan 26 22:00:35 sisto: Nope..but did look at the maps. Jan 26 22:00:38 Very neat. Jan 26 22:00:44 so... I mentioned to someone that the beos start ui is kinda ideal for our dimensions Jan 26 22:00:56 LinuxHack3r: I'd recommend MaemoMapper Jan 26 22:01:19 but you have to download your own maps with that app Jan 26 22:01:22 so, OpenStreetMap Jan 26 22:01:47 OpenStreetMap? Jan 26 22:01:51 or, just "explore" Google Maps with "heavy caching" :P Jan 26 22:02:02 LinuxHack3r: it includes maps already? didn't know that Jan 26 22:02:15 the pre-installed Maps app does Jan 26 22:02:21 but they're not very good Jan 26 22:02:41 the preinstalled maps are regional Jan 26 22:02:51 timelE61i: haven't seen it Jan 26 22:02:54 And calling them vectors is insulting to vectors Jan 26 22:03:12 I agree Jan 26 22:03:13 they're better than google, which are bitmaps, and openstreetmaps, which are mostly missing Jan 26 22:03:17 Wazd: if you have vmware, check out haiku Jan 26 22:03:42 * Stskeeps checks youtube Jan 26 22:03:43 timelE61i: I've been meaning to try Plan9 in a VM - have you ever used that? Jan 26 22:04:10 i don't think so. I can't remember if i tried Jan 26 22:04:33 So..I cd'd to /usr/local/bin, and ln -s /home/user/Data/Scripts/Connect. So how come when I type connect it doesn't find it? Jan 26 22:04:33 I've used quite a few os's including beos, qnx, os/2... Jan 26 22:04:37 wazd: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Rr811dphhs , around 0:30 Jan 26 22:04:47 I saw some comment on the Interwebs somewhere, where someone was complaining that Linux was becoming too popular, and if it kept on, he'd have to switch to Plan9 to stay cool Jan 26 22:04:49 lol Jan 26 22:05:07 it was said tongue-in-cheek, of course Jan 26 22:05:30 wayfinder maps seem to be all straight lines, suppose that's easier to calculate, I've not yet worked out what I'd need to buy from their website to get portugal though Jan 26 22:05:42 he could use hurd Jan 26 22:05:42 it likely won't be cheap Jan 26 22:05:43 LinuxHack3r: It's case sensitive. Jan 26 22:05:48 jaem, you could also try debian gnu/hurd :-) Jan 26 22:06:02 timelE61i: that reminds me - Stallman is coming to talk in my city Jan 26 22:06:03 Jaffa_: Oh..of course of course. I'll fool around with it later...mplayer for now! Jan 26 22:06:07 it should be interesting Jan 26 22:06:17 Stskeeps: It's pretty hard to understand what's going on if you don't know it :) Jan 26 22:06:28 wazd: yeah, ok, - it is icons lighting up as it boots up Jan 26 22:06:35 Stskeeps: ah Jan 26 22:06:49 wAzd: Jan 26 22:06:57 timelE61i: got what you mean :) Jan 26 22:07:00 Basically 5 indicators Jan 26 22:07:04 One per category Jan 26 22:07:09 that would be nice Jan 26 22:07:16 If the boot fails, it stops at a light Jan 26 22:07:24 I like splash screens, but feedback is nice too Jan 26 22:07:29 that would be a good compromise Jan 26 22:07:29 And you immediately have a general idea what's dead Jan 26 22:07:39 There's also a debug mode Jan 26 22:07:40 I think we should keep the progress bar, though Jan 26 22:07:47 Where you get the lights + text Jan 26 22:08:39 We could keep the progressbar and draw icons same time Jan 26 22:08:45 Having watched this phone take a full minute to boot Jan 26 22:08:49 Lets make some kind of ruller Jan 26 22:08:53 Splash screens suck :) Jan 26 22:09:04 need to be able to press alt-f1 and see the normal linux loading text Jan 26 22:09:13 any packaging expert here ? Jan 26 22:09:16 - that was just 'til it wanted the sim code Jan 26 22:09:16 TimelE61i: I meant in the sense that you were talking about Jan 26 22:09:22 mavhc: tricky - where's alt? ;-) Jan 26 22:09:27 dl9pf: ask your question Jan 26 22:09:35 jaffa: zoom in :) Jan 26 22:09:38 dl9pf: if it's any consolation, the Council are currently interviewing people for the role of debmaster Jan 26 22:09:41 Jaffa_: it's only for advanced users who've replaced their keyboard Jan 26 22:09:54 Quite right. Sod the newbies. Jan 26 22:10:05 where's f1? Jan 26 22:10:18 seriously though, zoom in seems like a perfectly reasonable stroke at boot Jan 26 22:10:23 mavhc: Touche Jan 26 22:10:57 Jaffa_: http://rafb.net/p/Iz5pEO82.html Jan 26 22:10:57 (to turn on consolish boot output) Jan 26 22:11:18 Dl9pf: control isn't hard to write Jan 26 22:11:20 Stskeeps: mmm, comments ;-) Jan 26 22:11:29 Jaffa_: # MAGIC Jan 26 22:11:29 Stskeeps: http://pastebin.com/m594832c6 <-- maybe i'm just not seeing the wood for the trees Jan 26 22:11:37 Timeless.jusrtdave.net/maemo has a bunch of open source debs Jan 26 22:11:41 Er Jan 26 22:11:48 Timeless.justdave.net/maemo has a bunch of open source debs Jan 26 22:11:54 Stskeeps: have a static vmx alongside it, or auto-generate that from the same script so it's self contained? Jan 26 22:12:34 aah - now i'm a step further Jan 26 22:12:39 Dl9pf, mxr.maemo.org/diablo/find?string=debian/control Jan 26 22:12:43 Or /garage/ Jan 26 22:12:46 Jaffa_: you point a vmx to a vmdk, - but yes, just downloading a zip with .vmx and .vmdk could do the trick Jan 26 22:12:49 For more examples Jan 26 22:12:57 Stskeeps: indeed Jan 26 22:13:08 timelE61i: tnx will look Jan 26 22:13:11 Jaffa_: but having a vmdk also enables people to load it in lets say, virtualbox :) but i guess that might have import feature to Jan 26 22:13:15 o Jan 26 22:13:34 I think it's mostly disk, rather than vmx import. Jan 26 22:13:44 Dl9pf: note that w/o "user/", your deb won't appear in h-a-m Jan 26 22:14:03 ? Jan 26 22:14:07 user/ ? Jan 26 22:14:16 Also check w/ jaffa about proper section: values Jan 26 22:14:19 aah ... section user/ ?? Jan 26 22:14:23 dl9pf: correct. Jan 26 22:14:32 good point Jan 26 22:14:42 so e.g. section user/utils ? Jan 26 22:14:48 See http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Package_Categories - the App Manager hides non-end user packages by checking for "user/" at the start of the Section. Jan 26 22:15:10 Note that the first line of description is independent of the following lines Jan 26 22:15:20 There's now a good list of all the categories one should use. Anything other than those will (at some point) appears in an "Other" category (which is bad ;-)) Jan 26 22:15:21 You'll often see one or the other but not both Jan 26 22:15:49 http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Package_categories sorry Jan 26 22:15:51 user/utilities then Jan 26 22:16:00 You probably want Depends: samba-something Jan 26 22:16:08 Unless it's truly optional Jan 26 22:16:10 dl9pf: what are you working on? Jan 26 22:16:28 If it's optional, you want Suggests: Jan 26 22:16:53 packaging csync (www.csync.org) gladiac is the author, btw Jan 26 22:17:00 :) Jan 26 22:17:04 You probably need a depends bit for iniparser too Jan 26 22:17:39 Iirc there's a field for Upstream-maintainer: or something if you want to blame gladiac Jan 26 22:17:57 dl9pf: "user/utiltities" sounds best then Jan 26 22:18:04 Jaffa: If i'll save Mer page's current code in the notepad - then I can restore it easily, right?) Jan 26 22:18:32 wazd: or have a play in another page, and copy & paste it later. Then it won't be broken whilst you play. Jan 26 22:18:33 wazd: wiki also has history Jan 26 22:18:45 e.g. http://wiki.maemo.org/User:wazd/Sandbox/Mer Jan 26 22:19:16 Jaffa_: whoa, nice!) Jan 26 22:19:24 Jaffa_: thanks a lot) Jan 26 22:19:52 http://timeless.justdave.net/maemo/bugs-maemo-3591-0.1/DEBIAN/control - random example Jan 26 22:19:55 LinuxHack3r: do you listen to podcasts? Jan 26 22:20:18 Note that those debs are for bugs, so they're very custom and don't honor the section stuff Jan 26 22:20:30 LinuxHack3r: you should try gpodder on the n810. Jan 26 22:20:38 LinuxHack3r: if you do Jan 26 22:21:06 gpodder is great, but painfully slow here :( Jan 26 22:21:17 it's slow on maemo? Jan 26 22:21:45 maybe it's because it was done in python Jan 26 22:21:50 dl9pf: if it's primarily used with remote filesystems, perhaps even user/networking Jan 26 22:22:14 we can change that - just trying to make it build atm ;) Jan 26 22:22:24 indeed :) Jan 26 22:22:31 either utilities or networking Jan 26 22:22:45 dl9pf: you should file a bug report... bugs.gpodder.org Jan 26 22:23:01 csync looks cool, actually. Jan 26 22:23:03 sisto: will do Jan 26 22:23:19 Jaffa_: will be ready and installable as soon as it builds here ;) Jan 26 22:23:25 al dependencies are already done Jan 26 22:23:35 dl9pf: thanks! pls try to be specific as to when it slows down Jan 26 22:23:40 * Jaffa_ needs to fix his vim build in a minute Jan 26 22:23:47 i think networking sounds right Jan 26 22:24:17 Sorry, user/network Jan 26 22:24:25 * Jaffa_ checks his own table, again Jan 26 22:25:05 i meant v. Utils Jan 26 22:25:16 control looks now: http://pastebin.com/m58738844 Jan 26 22:25:19 * timelE61i already pointed to jaffa re spelling Jan 26 22:25:43 sigh missed on section entry ... Jan 26 22:25:46 * Jaffa_ said "networking" too :) Jan 26 22:26:00 oh hrr Jan 26 22:26:10 You might not need those depends bit Jan 26 22:26:20 It depends on whether shlibsdeps works Jan 26 22:26:44 If you're building, try w/o and check the resulting file Jan 26 22:26:59 Sorry, i'm used to writing control files from scratch Jan 26 22:27:02 ok Jan 26 22:27:13 And building debs w/ dpkg-deb Jan 26 22:27:22 But you won't do that Jan 26 22:27:30 gpodder seemed to use up loads of ram when I tried it, I switched to a combination of canola and videocenter Jan 26 22:28:20 I suspect section doesn't belong in the source package thing Jan 26 22:28:29 Similarly for priority Jan 26 22:28:51 They should be related to "'binary"' Jan 26 22:29:16 Definitely check out some samples from /diablo/ or /garage/ Jan 26 22:29:36 http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-controlfields.html only recommended - will read other files Jan 26 22:29:41 mxr.maemo.org/garage/find?string=debian/control Jan 26 22:29:42 thx for the mxr link Jan 26 22:29:51 thats what i need to get used to it Jan 26 22:31:33 these are all hand typed btw Jan 26 22:31:52 They're very predictable, but the ui lets you build your own :) Jan 26 22:31:53 Jaffa_: http://rafb.net/p/MSpPIV66.html Jan 26 22:32:11 (tar.gz is the filesystem) Jan 26 22:32:19 vmdk is an actual ext3 fs Jan 26 22:32:49 Come on guys, get it to fit into 128m ; Jan 26 22:32:51 Wiki engine is pretty impressive, I think I can craft something cool there :) Jan 26 22:32:52 ;) Jan 26 22:32:55 timelE61i: on x86? :P Jan 26 22:33:00 Arm Jan 26 22:33:06 That's my card size :) Jan 26 22:33:11 timelE61i: hehe. :P Jan 26 22:33:14 It came w/ my n800 Jan 26 22:33:32 (it's the only one i can find) Jan 26 22:33:34 the 'sardine' distribution was referring to the size of sardine cans, wasn't it.. Jan 26 22:33:35 :P Jan 26 22:33:57 I don't think so Jan 26 22:34:09 More to the fact that things were canned and smelly Jan 26 22:34:23 wazd: hopefully some of the tricks I've used already will help you :) Jan 26 22:34:25 hehe Jan 26 22:34:33 The idea was that it'd be an unstable Jan 26 22:34:45 A way to push things for testing as a rolling target Jan 26 22:35:00 does anyone have any idea what the approximate shipping weight of the N810 is? I don't have a scale handy Jan 26 22:35:22 Stskeeps: That is very cool. Jan 26 22:35:45 Jaffa_: better than the %%"!# 500mb side of the old vdi Jan 26 22:35:47 size Jan 26 22:36:16 Jaffa_: sure! Your template was best tutorial I ever found) Jan 26 22:37:01 Jaffa_: And I like your buttons too :) Jan 26 22:37:13 Stskeeps: dum question; could i make those diffs using dpkg?, if so, how? Jan 26 22:37:21 jAffa? Jan 26 22:37:24 wazd: flattery'll get you anywhere Jan 26 22:37:33 tImelE61i? Jan 26 22:37:44 do we have any os2007 devices around? Jan 26 22:38:03 I want to know if snooze time was adjustable Jan 26 22:38:14 In Clock? Jan 26 22:38:35 * Jaffa_ doesn't have any available to him. Can't remember either. It rings a vague bell (no pun intended), but I'm in no way sure Jan 26 22:38:47 yeah Jan 26 22:38:52 A user filed a bug Jan 26 22:38:58 b-man: you in ubuntu doing it or? Jan 26 22:39:02 And i think andre__ misinterpretted it Jan 26 22:39:07 The bug report sucked Jan 26 22:39:14 So it's hard to be certain Jan 26 22:39:33 #? Jan 26 22:39:41 atm, i'm in a chroot, but i could boot into it at any time ;) Jan 26 22:39:58 * andre__ reads the backlog Jan 26 22:40:13 aNdre__: my guess is the reporter of 4007(?) meant a way to control the snooze time when the alarm reads Jan 26 22:40:16 Err rings Jan 26 22:40:23 no idea if snooze was adjustable in os2007 Jan 26 22:40:32 seems it will be available again in harmattan... Jan 26 22:40:32 The ui i know of (having translated it for 2008) Jan 26 22:40:40 Is for the clock app Jan 26 22:40:56 andre__, I'm quite certain it wasn't. Jan 26 22:40:58 And controls a default(fixed) time for the snooze button when it rings Jan 26 22:41:23 But my guess is the user wanted to control how long the ringing alarm snoozed Jan 26 22:41:38 evening all Jan 26 22:41:45 Not sure. I'll check swift when i vpn to see what strings 2007 had Jan 26 22:41:45 hi lardman Jan 26 22:41:47 * b-man trys googling for a diff guide Jan 26 22:41:53 lardman, excellent timing. :P Jan 26 22:42:00 Diff -upN Jan 26 22:42:02 GeneralAntilles: good or bad? Jan 26 22:42:07 (dead tv net) Jan 26 22:42:09 Hard. Jan 26 22:42:44 b-man: diff -ruN Jan 26 22:42:50 b-man: diff -ruN dir1 dir2 Jan 26 22:42:51 timelE61i, well he filed 4006 and 4007 Jan 26 22:43:06 Stskeeps: thanks Jan 26 22:43:14 thanks Jaffa_ Jan 26 22:43:17 Andre: looking (low battery) Jan 26 22:43:17 re email Jan 26 22:43:49 Andre: ui team sucks Jan 26 22:43:53 the other one is that he wanted to have the alarm repeating more than 4 times if he simply ignores the alarm Jan 26 22:44:07 not only UI team :-P Jan 26 22:44:30 Also: andre__ :P Jan 26 22:44:38 He's right Jan 26 22:44:42 Wait Jan 26 22:44:45 sTupid q Jan 26 22:44:45 are the /media/mmc* dirs supposed to exist if there's no card installed? Jan 26 22:44:47 GeneralAntilles: I can suck too, correct. :-P Jan 26 22:44:58 What's the dialog say the 4th time? Jan 26 22:45:08 Is one button "snooze"? Jan 26 22:45:19 yes. it's still the same dialog from the very first time Jan 26 22:45:23 because user did not touch the device Jan 26 22:45:42 Oh Jan 26 22:45:51 This isn't snooze x4 Jan 26 22:45:57 It's ignore x4 Jan 26 22:46:03 no, it's the "i stay in my bed and ignore everything" usecase Jan 26 22:46:17 well even if I do say so myself, ssvb's sbc patches do sound much better Jan 26 22:46:19 After 4 it should auto-snooze Jan 26 22:46:38 it did autosnooze 4 times before Jan 26 22:46:48 (or 3 times, to be correct) Jan 26 22:46:54 wait Jan 26 22:47:01 What's the ring interval? Jan 26 22:47:04 5mins? Jan 26 22:47:05 10min iirc Jan 26 22:47:12 dunno, it's in the spec Jan 26 22:47:17 i think it was 10 Jan 26 22:47:23 It's configurable in the ui Jan 26 22:47:28 yeah, in fremantle Jan 26 22:47:30 but not in diablo Jan 26 22:47:32 no Jan 26 22:47:37 uh? Jan 26 22:47:48 I was translating diablo strings earlier this week Jan 26 22:48:08 App menu, alarms, set snooze something iirc Jan 26 22:48:19 oooh, tipped off about fremantle features *runs to blog it* Jan 26 22:48:31 timelE61i, uh, you are right Jan 26 22:48:34 it's in diablo Jan 26 22:48:44 johnx: the world'll be alight with the changes to the snooze functionality Jan 26 22:48:46 hm, adding my passwords to the dictionary is not so smart Jan 26 22:48:49 I translated it this week ;) Jan 26 22:48:56 johnx, that's absolutely no news, sorry :-P Jan 26 22:48:57 x29a: webkit? Jan 26 22:49:02 argh Jan 26 22:49:04 My memory for bad strings is pretty good :) Jan 26 22:49:12 hehe Jan 26 22:49:12 I didn't like them Jan 26 22:49:15 my USB-cables are too long Jan 26 22:49:15 Stskeeps: dunno, the thing that normally propouses words Jan 26 22:49:16 johnx: url! url! Jan 26 22:49:27 bleh, no opentyrian in repos? :C Jan 26 22:49:34 So, again Jan 26 22:49:40 only the high-quality cable works Jan 26 22:49:41 What did the user want Jan 26 22:49:50 dob: did we establish if your MMC was fried or not btw? Jan 26 22:49:51 Was the help bad? Jan 26 22:50:02 on the others my hub disconnects and connects... Jan 26 22:50:20 Find out what os he was using Jan 26 22:50:27 And what he really wanted Jan 26 22:50:28 crap. time to change the bug report to invalid then, if the feature already exists :-P Jan 26 22:50:31 x29a, all we need now is a nice button to upload the dictionary to a script kiddie forum :) Jan 26 22:50:32 Stskeeps: nope, I'll try to see if I can borrow a card to test some day Jan 26 22:50:35 dob: alright Jan 26 22:50:41 i think he simply did not find that setting Jan 26 22:51:03 Find out if he checked help Jan 26 22:51:10 johnx: i bet (like steve jobs) you guys have some backdoords and listeners Jan 26 22:51:22 i dont wonna know what my N810 is quietly doing, while im asleep Jan 26 22:51:23 but real men never read the help files! ;-) Jan 26 22:51:29 Keep in mind that if neither he nor you can find the feasture Jan 26 22:51:34 It doesn't exist Jan 26 22:51:36 x29a, idling :P Jan 26 22:51:38 And is buggy Jan 26 22:51:50 * b-man doesn't understand why diff doesn't see /usr/libexec/deb/merinstaller_1.9.3-1mer1 :( Jan 26 22:51:52 johnx: thats what the media try to tell me, im not a believer! Jan 26 22:52:02 One should not need to translaste a device to figure out how to use it Jan 26 22:52:38 Stskeeps: I understand there's no audio in Mer? Jan 26 22:52:43 Stskeeps: will the MSI USB-stick work if I connect it to the N800? Jan 26 22:52:48 johnx: now building automatically: x86, x86 VMDK, x86 rootstrap (+ apt-proxy using rootstrap), armel-rootstrap (SB, builder SB, general buildd), 770, n800, n8x0 :P Jan 26 22:52:50 lardman, correct for now, but a2dp works great Jan 26 22:52:57 it does? Jan 26 22:53:05 johnx: is that from bluez 4.xx? Jan 26 22:53:12 Stskeeps: I don't know Jan 26 22:53:15 lardman: but yes, no audio atm Jan 26 22:53:18 radic_: i have utter no idea Jan 26 22:53:24 Stskeeps: why's that? Jan 26 22:53:32 lardman: i thought you need DSP tasks for it? Jan 26 22:53:42 lardman, whatever's in ubuntu 9.04. works fine, but it's ~40% CPU usage for decoding. not sure what CPU speed that was Jan 26 22:53:44 well that answers the question then :) Jan 26 22:53:52 Stskeeps, is that the new build order if I type build foo? Jan 26 22:54:06 johnx: hmm, sounds a bit high, but I guess libmad + sbc would do that Jan 26 22:54:09 johnx: heheh, no Jan 26 22:54:12 lardman: https://wiki.maemo.org/User:Stskeeps/Sandbox/Nokia_Wishlist Jan 26 22:54:23 lardman: you probably know more about 770 and other things that could be useful to have Jan 26 22:54:25 dsp is afaiu always optional Jan 26 22:54:29 Stskeeps: I was wondering if the ARM-side kernel driver for the audio codec was being used Jan 26 22:54:40 lardman: diablo kernel, didn't touch arm-side one yet :P Jan 26 22:54:54 timelE61i: nah, it does the mixing & output on the standard machines Jan 26 22:55:07 Stskeeps: ah, ok, cool Jan 26 22:55:18 lardman: we do need work in the sound area so experiments are welcome Jan 26 22:55:18 i mean technically Jan 26 22:55:36 well yes it's possible, needs the kernel driver though Jan 26 22:56:28 * lardman looks around for a spare card onto which to install Mer Jan 26 22:57:11 * Jaffa_ offs, cash machine & beddingly. Jan 26 22:57:14 timelE61i, yes, true from a hardware perspective. Jan 26 23:00:07 hmm, would you believe I have a USB-SD adaptor that won't read SD cards >1GB correctly? Jan 26 23:00:09 rubbish Jan 26 23:00:25 ummm, if i have a memory card thats giving errors (it crashed and a few files are just unreadable or deleteable) Jan 26 23:00:44 what do i do to the filesystem to make it better? (chkdsk) Jan 26 23:01:18 try another card reader - I thought I'd lost all my photos from Oz, but it was the bloody reader - as soon as I stuck it in the n800 they were all there Jan 26 23:01:37 lcuk: Windows or Linux? Jan 26 23:01:40 ive not lost anything Jan 26 23:01:50 its locked on the .o files and nothing can remove or delete them Jan 26 23:01:54 on device Jan 26 23:01:55 linux Jan 26 23:01:59 well I had the same, could see the files but not read them, they all appeared to be truncated Jan 26 23:02:07 hmm Jan 26 23:02:10 fsck Jan 26 23:02:11 yeah, bad chains or whatnot Jan 26 23:02:28 no need to swear, but i just tried that its not found Jan 26 23:02:32 umount it, then run fsck on the device (partition) Jan 26 23:02:50 lcuk, rootsh fsck /dev/mmcblk0p1 Jan 26 23:03:20 fsck: No such file or directory Jan 26 23:03:32 how do i find out what fs it is (its not the FAT one) Jan 26 23:03:39 fdisk Jan 26 23:03:47 on the drive, not the device Jan 26 23:03:54 lcuk, are you root? Jan 26 23:03:55 not found, im on 810 here Jan 26 23:03:58 yeah Jan 26 23:04:02 hmm Jan 26 23:04:19 try giving an explicit path to the binary, either /usr/sbin or /sbin Jan 26 23:04:45 oh no, not there either Jan 26 23:04:48 I disabled the transparent mouse-courser and connectet my Logitech MX500 to an active hub Jan 26 23:04:55 but it dosn_t works Jan 26 23:05:13 radic_, in mer or maemo? Jan 26 23:05:27 lcuk: is it ext2 the fs? Jan 26 23:05:35 johnx: on my N800 Jan 26 23:05:37 i dunno Jan 26 23:05:41 likely Jan 26 23:05:54 johnx: mous is detected Jan 26 23:06:54 lcuk, try becoming root first then type just 'fsck' Jan 26 23:07:25 i am root Jan 26 23:08:07 installing e2fslibs Jan 26 23:08:17 e2fsprogs Jan 26 23:08:23 :) ta Jan 26 23:09:30 re Jan 26 23:09:30 ah! dur...fsck saying not found, not bash saying not found Jan 26 23:09:36 johnx, you said "fsck /dev/mmcblk0p1" is that for mmc1 or 2 - its my external removable card Jan 26 23:09:37 need more coffee Jan 26 23:09:52 I can't seem to find fdisk in the repo, but e2fsprogs and dosfstools should sort the fsck stuff for both ext2 and vfat Jan 26 23:10:12 lardman, i have e2fsprogs thanks :) Jan 26 23:10:17 lcuk: blk0 = 1st card Jan 26 23:10:25 * lcuk started to find it but was guided home by Stskeeps :D Jan 26 23:10:28 sorry, missed some stuff when my connection timed out Jan 26 23:10:44 though 1st card is not necessarily mmc1 Jan 26 23:10:48 look at mount output Jan 26 23:11:15 lardman: i believe e2fsprogs provides fsdisk ;) Jan 26 23:11:25 re: sfdisk Jan 26 23:11:31 FireFox: cool, thanks Jan 26 23:11:56 util-linux Jan 26 23:12:01 lcuk, as silly as this is: mmcblk0 -> internal -> /media/mmc2. mmcblk1 -> external -> /media/mmc1 Jan 26 23:12:03 provides fdisk Jan 26 23:12:16 also, sfdisk is included on the tablet Jan 26 23:12:24 @x29a's comment about passwords, how does one reset the Maemo autosuggest list? Jan 26 23:12:25 sfdisk -l /dev/mmcblk? will give you a list Jan 26 23:13:02 jaem: intresting point Jan 26 23:13:20 /dev/mmcblk1p1: ***** FILE SYSTEM WAS MODIFIED ***** Jan 26 23:13:20 /dev/mmcblk1p1: 7900/124160 files (3.4% non-contiguous), 136070/247998 blocks Jan 26 23:13:21 jaem: iirc somewhere under control panel Jan 26 23:13:30 that was after about 400 different things Jan 26 23:13:41 lardman: really? I couldn't find it Jan 26 23:13:48 jaem: tap and hold the word Jan 26 23:13:49 hm Jan 26 23:13:50 and click remove Jan 26 23:14:08 if i reboot it will remount everything wont it Jan 26 23:14:13 Stskeeps: >< *so* intuitive Jan 26 23:14:20 If I move the mouse the screen is going on... Jan 26 23:14:25 jaem: tips and tricks Jan 26 23:14:35 radic_: there's a guide about mice support somewhere on iTT Jan 26 23:14:36 i think Jan 26 23:14:53 radic_, I believe xomap doesn't support it directly or similar Jan 26 23:14:56 Stskeeps: iTT? Jan 26 23:15:04 ~itt Jan 26 23:15:05 methinks itt is the forums on internettablettalk.com ( http://internettablettalk.com/forums ) Jan 26 23:15:49 phew! thank you guys Jan 26 23:16:14 Stskeeps, just read your jaiku about supported systems. I get it now :) Jan 26 23:16:26 Stskeeps: will the word be removed ore removed and blocked? Jan 26 23:16:34 x29a: removed i think Jan 26 23:16:41 johnx: hehe. it's a giant list of images :P Jan 26 23:16:41 hm Jan 26 23:16:46 some of them are internal only Jan 26 23:16:46 note to self: rotated xv is unstable in diablo Jan 26 23:17:38 hmm, after a great start, a2dp is not sounding so great :( Jan 26 23:17:44 Stskeeps, I need to work on imager for zaurus. One image sill support: zauruses c750, c760, c860, c1000, c3000, c3100 and c32000 more or less Jan 26 23:17:56 johnx: alright Jan 26 23:18:11 at least I have an x server for it building now Jan 26 23:18:19 remember the poor collie that started it! Jan 26 23:18:36 ds3, I know :( I still have mine, but I think mer on the collie is a lost cause Jan 26 23:18:57 johnx: what is the issue? ARMv4? Jan 26 23:19:06 lack of RAM I expect Jan 26 23:19:16 16MB doesn't really cut it these days Jan 26 23:19:18 lardman, nah, 64MB of RAM for most collies Jan 26 23:19:22 ah, true Jan 26 23:19:23 64M no good? Jan 26 23:19:29 32M were in the demo give aways Jan 26 23:19:33 mine included, I just haven't seen it for a long while Jan 26 23:19:50 johnx: why not collie? Jan 26 23:19:53 ah well ignore me, I forgot it wasn't that bad :) Jan 26 23:20:01 ds3, combination of armv4 (no EABI support), 320x240 screen, limited hardware support in 2.6 Jan 26 23:20:15 lol, sorry for my laggy question Jan 26 23:20:21 and that screen is really 240x320 Jan 26 23:20:21 gcc-4.4 will have ebai support for armv4 Jan 26 23:20:48 even if we got everything running on debian etch ARM OABI I don't see many apps being usable at 240x320 Jan 26 23:20:52 the EABI part I can understand... the rest is jjust mere work ;) Jan 26 23:20:55 better to stick with GPE or Opie Jan 26 23:21:20 ds3, if you want to look at it I would be more than happy to help and give guidance Jan 26 23:21:25 book reader would be usable at 240*320 Jan 26 23:21:29 sketching Jan 26 23:21:34 johnx: have you tried running QTopia on Zaurii or Palms? Jan 26 23:21:35 map for some things Jan 26 23:21:37 pictures Jan 26 23:21:42 calendar Jan 26 23:21:45 even rss Jan 26 23:21:46 lcuk, and it is...already :P Jan 26 23:21:48 Opie is unmaintained, and incomplete Jan 26 23:21:50 hmm, seems like background options are disabled in Maemo Wiki :( Jan 26 23:21:51 jaem its qt-extened now Jan 26 23:21:52 :) lots of things dont need mega resolution Jan 26 23:21:56 johnx: I normally would but right now, that falls behind beagle board projects :/ Jan 26 23:21:59 I think I need some sleep Jan 26 23:22:01 woglinde: yes - thinko Jan 26 23:22:02 yeah johnx Jan 26 23:22:28 I tried to put the N800 charger into an USB-bluetooth-stick Jan 26 23:22:30 ds3: if you have beagleboard, get ubuntu jaunty + kernel going, and you have Mer, too ;) Jan 26 23:22:33 cuz another device that'd be ideal is the Jornada's Jan 26 23:22:44 ds3, exactly. I don't think overcommitting is a good idea right now Jan 26 23:22:53 Stskeeps: why ubuntu? Jan 26 23:23:06 ds3, modern, stable distro, and upstart Jan 26 23:23:10 the issue with the beagleboard is it lacks a standard display and touch screen Jan 26 23:23:17 sibbe: what's .uy for a country? Jan 26 23:23:21 johnx: I don't believe in distros Jan 26 23:23:30 sisto: what's .uy for a country? Jan 26 23:23:31 ds3: basis of mer, so :P Jan 26 23:23:32 UY == URUGUAY Jan 26 23:23:38 ahh Jan 26 23:23:49 ds3, soooo...you role your own every new install? Jan 26 23:23:52 Stskeeps: oh :( thought it was just a userland Jan 26 23:23:59 johnx: actually, yes Jan 26 23:24:08 bootstrap a compiler on a running system, then copy files over? Jan 26 23:24:23 pretty close to it... use whatever CD, etc I can boot off as a root disk and go from there Jan 26 23:24:40 it is way less painful then dealing with packages (nightmare getting stuff on the eeePC this weekend) Jan 26 23:24:47 jeez. every time you get a new laptop or desktop? Jan 26 23:25:06 * lardman needs tweezers to remove the micro SD card from the n810 Jan 26 23:25:09 yes, the eeePC is an experiment in see what I have to compromise to use the included distro Jan 26 23:25:16 in seeing... Jan 26 23:25:23 lardman: click it with the butt of the stylus Jan 26 23:25:25 that works well Jan 26 23:25:26 lol lardman, dont you press it and it pings Jan 26 23:25:39 yeah, didn't ping out enough Jan 26 23:25:39 anyways, if you're that serious, just take our debian source packages and compile them. There's not all that much that's terrbily ubuntu-centric Jan 26 23:25:48 it's just that we only provide packages for ubuntu Jan 26 23:26:00 click it in again and try again - you are going for the overzealous toaster impression Jan 26 23:26:01 johnx: of course, my desktop was last built with SLS as the root disk Jan 26 23:26:13 O_o; wow Jan 26 23:26:29 if I weren't in beagle land right now, I'd do exact that Jan 26 23:26:31 say, why don't we redo Mer based on Gentoo? Jan 26 23:26:41 *not serious* Jan 26 23:26:41 download source deb's, ar x,and untar Jan 26 23:26:42 jaem: how about you try compiling GTK over 3 days.. Jan 26 23:26:43 :P Jan 26 23:26:44 urgh Jan 26 23:26:54 jaem, stab, stab, stab :P Jan 26 23:26:59 :) +10 Jan 26 23:27:06 everybody loves compiling Jan 26 23:27:09 nothing personal of course Jan 26 23:27:20 only their personal little bit of compiling though Jan 26 23:27:22 the last usable system for the N800, IMO is Chinook Jan 26 23:27:25 jaem, actually I never tried qt-extended on the collie. I might later Jan 26 23:27:38 so I am really longing for another usable OS Jan 26 23:27:55 ds3, what's your biggest complaint against diablo? Jan 26 23:28:04 johnx: I have a Palm Zire 72 sitting around - do you know what sort of resources qt-extended needs? Jan 26 23:28:05 * lcuk thinks mer can be nice and stable and shaking the cobwebs out of the corner can only be a good thing Jan 26 23:28:36 johnx: it doesn't work with the things that worked in chinook Jan 26 23:28:39 lcuk: it's not cobwebs only. it's freaking mutant spiders. Jan 26 23:28:47 Stskeeps++ Jan 26 23:28:53 like... spiderman? Jan 26 23:28:56 * lardman grabs the BFG Jan 26 23:29:04 :) Jan 26 23:29:10 Bluetooth KB for me is broq, Network masks w/static IP's is broq, the mail program included is broq (looses mail) Jan 26 23:29:16 there were others but that's what I remember right now Jan 26 23:30:11 ds3, well, on a sytem level this will be closer to ubuntu, so bt keyboard and netmasks will likely be fixed. For mail client: use anything that runs on ARM Jan 26 23:30:26 also: compiling for it or on it should be much simpler Jan 26 23:30:45 johnx: I am using claws on Chinook at the moment... so that can be worked around... it is the rest that pissed me off Jan 26 23:30:49 actually, it would be a good bootstrapping system if you wanted to jump off into LFS or similar Jan 26 23:31:16 if PM works well, I might loaded on the 770 as a test platform Jan 26 23:31:52 johnx :) +1 compiling, it needs to be able to handle "./configure" as a priority :) theres 90% of code i cannot even touch yet even if i want to Jan 26 23:32:19 lcuk, already done :P now why are you still on maemo? Jan 26 23:32:31 Nooooooo not configure, use a config.h file please! Jan 26 23:32:36 and chuck libtool Jan 26 23:32:40 i have a single 1gb mmc Jan 26 23:32:44 it hosts liqbase :) Jan 26 23:32:45 libtool needs to die, no question about that Jan 26 23:32:46 heh, seems i have been using echowb so long that i have missed (or forgotten) that modest has a big scrollbar now Jan 26 23:33:02 I like libtool Jan 26 23:33:07 i dont need to compile anything yet - but very soon i will, im being annoyed by xv and rotation Jan 26 23:33:08 ds3, we use whatever is available. we're not out to reinvent a packaging / build system :P Jan 26 23:33:19 woglinde: do you cross compile? Jan 26 23:33:23 when will mer have the fremantle kernel and stuff? Jan 26 23:33:25 sure Jan 26 23:33:38 johnx: *nod* Jan 26 23:33:54 the other compilesystem arent better Jan 26 23:34:00 to bad it seems one cant use dbus-switchboard to control what programs gets used for the bookmarks in the quick menu... Jan 26 23:34:24 lcuk, uhm, never? Jan 26 23:35:04 ahhh the kernel is tied to the hardware? Jan 26 23:35:23 lcuk, if the 770 -> N8x0 transition is anything to go by, 2.6.21 is the last Nokia kernel for the N8x0. We'll have a more modern kernel from the linux-omap branch...eventually Jan 26 23:36:24 mm Jan 26 23:36:55 but havent they released a new kernel? isnt that what everyone was wetting themselves over re rx-51? Jan 26 23:37:15 lcuk, yeah, they released all sorts of kernel support for the RX-51 OMAP3 Jan 26 23:37:38 hmm, what else do I need to insmod to get ext2.ko to go in? Jan 26 23:37:38 and in that case, it looks like more will end up upstream than with the kernels for OMAP1 or OMAP2 Jan 26 23:38:14 lardman, mbcache and ... something else Jan 26 23:38:22 thanks Jan 26 23:38:34 that was enough Jan 26 23:39:07 ok johnx, i just thought the new one was gonna be used. im dreading having to go into the innards of xv and x11 to see what the problem is (i need a sane build system first before i can even try) Jan 26 23:40:19 * lcuk is pleased though because he *can* go and try to solve problem Jan 26 23:40:23 hmm? what problem? Jan 26 23:40:30 today i used wine to solve a windows problem Jan 26 23:40:30 bootmenu installation didn't ask me the questions detailed here: http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer/Releases/0.6#Nokia_N8x0_-_Installer_files_.28simple.29 Jan 26 23:40:43 lol Jan 26 23:40:50 lardman, did it ask anything or just briefly appear and disappear? Jan 26 23:41:00 lcuk, awesome :D Jan 26 23:41:02 johnx, using rotation on xv causes an x11 bailout Jan 26 23:41:16 johnx: it asked where I wanted to install the shortcut - I said Utilities Jan 26 23:41:39 lardman, what happens when you run from that shortcut Jan 26 23:41:52 it's two stages: install deb, then launch from menu and install bootmenu Jan 26 23:41:55 ah, that I've not tried yet, instructions need modification in that case Jan 26 23:42:26 radic_: uruguay Jan 26 23:43:19 lol Jan 26 23:43:34 *simpsons scene jumps in my mind* Jan 26 23:44:04 lardman, fixed the instructions a little bit :) Jan 26 23:44:19 good stuff :) Jan 26 23:44:30 x29a: haha Jan 26 23:44:35 i saw it Jan 26 23:44:52 hey! Jan 26 23:46:05 I've just changed it too Jan 26 23:46:48 * johnx fixes punctuation Jan 26 23:47:07 my own, that is. :) Jan 26 23:47:13 also current installer dies after passwd setup. run sudo gainroot, refresh_bootmenu.d after that Jan 26 23:47:24 :) I was wondering what I'd got wrong Jan 26 23:54:16 annoying the way dpkg remembers failed installs Jan 26 23:55:20 I just tried the mail program thing...it's ok. Is there something more though, in terms of a better imapclient? Jan 26 23:55:53 claws mail Jan 26 23:56:27 johnx: I was under the impression that that is what I was using...but perhaps not. I was using whatever is installed by default. Jan 26 23:56:46 modest is in by default Jan 26 23:56:58 claws is a more traditional, full featured client Jan 26 23:57:14 johnx: Is it closer to thunderbird? Jan 26 23:57:37 Stskeeps: nice installer Jan 26 23:57:44 LinuxHack3r, I would say yes Jan 26 23:57:57 Great...lets give it a try. Jan 26 23:58:32 good nite Jan 26 23:58:39 'night woglinde Jan 26 23:58:41 lardman, b-man did it Jan 26 23:58:41 night woglinde Jan 26 23:58:45 johnx: *Oh good...I thought claws crashed...but it's just the setup wizard! Jan 26 23:58:56 * FireFox makes a mental note to not use FireFox as a user name at #ubuntu :p Jan 26 23:59:31 lol @FireFox Jan 27 00:00:04 hehe - thay think i'm an expert at firefox XD Jan 27 00:00:28 * lardman brings his fry-up skills to the fore :) Jan 27 00:00:47 * lcuk brings the bacon Jan 27 00:00:51 yay! Jan 27 00:00:56 woho Jan 27 00:01:09 stop lcuk, I should go to bed soon, not start cooking :) Jan 27 00:01:13 * FireFox grabs two pieces Jan 27 00:01:17 Mmm Jan 27 00:01:23 tracy came back with some to stock up our very bare fridge, she stood in the shop deciding what to get me, i love her more every day :D Jan 27 00:01:26 * lardman takes the other 10 then :) Jan 27 00:01:32 I should make some cookies. Jan 27 00:01:44 lardman: lol Jan 27 00:01:56 lol Jan 27 00:02:06 GA: what privacy policy comes with your baking? Jan 27 00:02:13 I could do with some food, I foolishly decided to stop driving to work and have walked in and back twice today Jan 27 00:02:28 :) lardman, thats not foolish Jan 27 00:02:40 you've not seen the hill! :) Jan 27 00:03:00 you've not seen your toes in a while. it all balances out eventually Jan 27 00:03:02 lol XD Jan 27 00:03:06 only a mile each way, but seriously uphill Jan 27 00:03:11 both ways! Jan 27 00:03:16 darn - you beat me to it Jan 27 00:03:20 :D Jan 27 00:04:20 * jaem is a fool Jan 27 00:04:24 i think my boss is gonna get himself a tablet by the way :) Jan 27 00:04:26 * jaem has forgotten his pgp passphrase Jan 27 00:04:35 lcuk: nice! Jan 27 00:04:37 bruteforce! Jan 27 00:04:54 yes jaem, very nice indeed Jan 27 00:05:25 x29a: that would be fun... on my dual-core Atom board Jan 27 00:05:38 lolz, atom Jan 27 00:05:52 well, I have root access to my friend's quad Jan 27 00:06:01 * lardman looks at Google terrain maps and sees 80-?180m in ~1mile Jan 27 00:06:14 s/-?/-> Jan 27 00:06:20 but that wouldn't help me Jan 27 00:06:33 not with 4kb RSA Jan 27 00:08:16 jaem, maybe some time on amazon's SC3? :D Jan 27 00:08:38 or, maybe GA could hold a bake sale on #maemo, to buy some FPGAs Jan 27 00:08:55 Deep Crack Mk II Jan 27 00:09:36 well, I have a revocation cert, at least Jan 27 00:09:43 but that's not the solution I was hoping for Jan 27 00:16:04 hmm, openpandora really does appear dodgy, johnx you here still? Jan 27 00:16:18 lardman: why do you say that? Jan 27 00:16:20 lardman, yup. still here in both senses :) Jan 27 00:16:53 well just looking at the latest blog entry saying "the last LCDs will ship soon", but I read a while back that all the parts were delivered Jan 27 00:17:01 I would s/dodgy/horribly unlucky, rather disorganized and somewhat poorly planned/ Jan 27 00:17:04 cya later folks Jan 27 00:17:17 johnx: I would tend to agree Jan 27 00:17:21 deb http://frodo-auenland.dyndns.org/maemo/diablo/n810/ ./ Jan 27 00:17:24 for csync Jan 27 00:17:29 see ya, lcuk Jan 27 00:17:42 well s/dodgy/intentionally misleading to make sure enough cash is available Jan 27 00:17:55 the device looks pretty awesome, and it's cheaper than I got my N810 for, so if it ships at all, I'd still give them some credit Jan 27 00:18:14 jaem, through bank transfer? Jan 27 00:18:17 yeah, except they won't take credit cards any more Jan 27 00:18:40 lardman, I honestly think most of it is poor communication and language barriers, not intentional, but I have been accused of optimism WRT the project :P Jan 27 00:18:41 Sts: I meant credit as in "woohoo, pat on the back" Jan 27 00:19:15 whoosh! Jan 27 00:19:24 StsN800: that "enter new root password" dialog might need some work - it capitalises the first letter Jan 27 00:19:45 lardman, yeah, zenity bug i think Jan 27 00:20:03 huh...not seeing that behavior in first-boot-wizard... Jan 27 00:20:35 that was from the Mer installer Jan 27 00:21:06 right, but zenity in both cases Jan 27 00:21:21 yep, just being specific :p Jan 27 00:21:23 ;) Jan 27 00:21:55 hmm, press and hold menu didn't work too well that time... Jan 27 00:22:12 * lardman sits and twiddles thumbs waiting for Maemo to come up Jan 27 00:22:17 lardman, and now refresh_bootmenu.d if you forgot Jan 27 00:22:32 run it, or vi it? Jan 27 00:22:38 run Jan 27 00:22:55 ok, cool Jan 27 00:23:08 the thing about bug in installer earlier Jan 27 00:25:38 hmm, so that flashes initfs again? Jan 27 00:25:45 rather than editing a conf file? Jan 27 00:26:16 anyway, booting now Jan 27 00:26:27 it flashes current boot conf from rootfs to initfs Jan 27 00:27:01 ok Jan 27 00:27:35 might be better to get it to look at the conf file on the normal flash, rather than repeatedly flashing initfs Jan 27 00:27:44 though I suppose it's generally just a one-off Jan 27 00:27:57 rootfs takes ages to mount Jan 27 00:28:11 ah, ok, I see the reasoning Jan 27 00:28:32 in pre-diablo we cannot rely on remount-rw either Jan 27 00:29:30 looks good Jan 27 00:29:45 will it power-save correctly? Or shall I switch off overnight> Jan 27 00:30:35 switching off is suggested at this stage unless you want to test the PM Jan 27 00:30:35 hmm, no term installed by default? Jan 27 00:30:48 * FireFox sets up #ubuntu-n8x0 -- doesn't think it would be verry useful though Jan 27 00:31:05 * FireFox is still getting buged by a spacific user named mrglinux - because he automaticly assumes i'm an expert at firefox :P Jan 27 00:31:58 lardman, yeah, 0.7 has it -- we had big trouble just before 0.6 Jan 27 00:32:17 so you must be the plane that clint eastwood flew ;) Jan 27 00:32:33 ah, I forgot this was not the bleeding edge Jan 27 00:32:41 any easy way to update to that? Jan 27 00:32:58 lardman, ssh in over wifi and apt-get update, install osso-xterm Jan 27 00:33:05 and any easy way to switch off, as the hw button doesn't work? Jan 27 00:33:13 ok Jan 27 00:33:14 battery pop Jan 27 00:33:18 lol Jan 27 00:33:20 ok Jan 27 00:33:49 im building snapshot of 0.7a atm Jan 27 00:33:58 takes 4-5 hrs Jan 27 00:34:36 then you can point installer at that url Jan 27 00:34:39 hmm, can't remember my wpa2 password atm Jan 27 00:34:43 battery pop it is Jan 27 00:35:40 right, got to hit the sack, cu all tomorrow Jan 27 00:35:44 well, now that you've installed it you can use the 'image' version :) Jan 27 00:37:55 * timeless frowns Jan 27 00:40:46 anyone here have some bluetooth devices? Jan 27 00:41:08 timeless, a couple. any kind specificly? Jan 27 00:41:20 one that could export a readonly filesytem :) Jan 27 00:41:55 So this default email client...is there some way I can make it not show up nokia n810 as an account? same for the removable memory card? Jan 27 00:41:58 three that could Jan 27 00:42:21 can you pair a tablet to it, and try using file manager to rename a file on that file system? Jan 27 00:43:19 johnx: You know what I'm talking about? Jan 27 00:43:30 timeless, hmm...am I about to be testing strings in closed source Nokia stuffs? Jan 27 00:43:38 ye Jan 27 00:43:41 LinuxHack3r, sorry, I can't really picture it Jan 27 00:43:57 well. should i check the license? :) Jan 27 00:44:15 timeless, possibly later. hacking on stuff in Mer right now. If it's open source though, I'd be more interested :) Jan 27 00:44:25 * timeless nods Jan 27 00:44:28 johnx: On the right...under my email address as an account...it also lists two other accounts...so to say...one is "Nokia N810", the other is "Removable memory card". Jan 27 00:44:48 ah, those are just the 'local storage' bits Jan 27 00:45:05 johnx: Exactly...can i make them bye bye? Jan 27 00:45:06 not accounts so much as folders IIRC Jan 27 00:45:34 IIRC? Jan 27 00:45:45 If I Recall Correctly Jan 27 00:46:18 ~iirc Jan 27 00:46:19 hmm... iirc is "if I recall correctly" Jan 27 00:46:20 anyways, I don't think you can get rid of them without editing the source...unless you can find something in options Jan 27 00:46:20 It seems that Wiki doesn't support background images at all x( Jan 27 00:46:42 ~lmao Jan 27 00:46:43 hmm... lmao is laughing my ass off, or see lol Jan 27 00:46:46 what's he trying to do? Jan 27 00:46:50 nice) Jan 27 00:47:08 bluetooth control panel lets you rename 'nokia n810' Jan 27 00:47:41 johnx: Claws looked cool...buy it seemed finicky and pickey. Perhaps if I spent enough time on it I could figure it out...but what is your opinion? Jan 27 00:48:01 and you can memory cards too Jan 27 00:48:15 but usually those strings can be changed by changing a localization if nothing else Jan 27 00:49:05 LinuxHack3r, modest works fine for me. my suggestion: ignore those extra folders and you'll forget about them (as I have) Jan 27 00:49:31 alright. Jan 27 00:50:28 johnx: But what about contacts? I'd like to sync with plaxo...you familiar with it?// Jan 27 00:50:40 never heard of it Jan 27 00:50:47 can plaxo export contacts as a .vcf? Jan 27 00:51:01 johnx: Yes...but plaxo is more than that. Jan 27 00:51:16 johnx: http://www.plaxo.com/ Jan 27 00:51:22 some kind of social networking thing? Jan 27 00:51:41 johnx: It appears as that's what it's become. But... Jan 27 00:52:30 johnx: It originally was a contact sync platform. For example...you add someone to your contacts in gmail...it is synced to thunderbird...and outlook....and certain smartphones...and all backwards and whatnot. Jan 27 00:53:00 * timeless grumbles Jan 27 00:53:07 LinuxHack3r, can anyone implement it? Jan 27 00:53:18 are tablets not valid bluetooth file servers? Jan 27 00:53:23 johnx: I believe there is an api or something. Jan 27 00:53:43 timeless: I sent a few files to my tablet from my computer...if that's what you mean? Jan 27 00:54:11 no Jan 27 00:54:16 LinuxHack3r, huh. that is somewhat interesting. for now try just having it export a .vcf and importing that Jan 27 00:54:25 sending is different from being browsable Jan 27 00:54:47 johnx: How does one actually import? Just open the contact thing and open a vcf? Jan 27 00:55:05 LinuxHack3r, I believe so. don't have it in front of me right now Jan 27 00:55:18 Contacts on the N810 isn't that great sadly :/ Jan 27 00:55:52 johnx: Well why not? Jan 27 00:56:25 LinuxHack3r, it doesn't support that many fields Jan 27 00:56:37 also, this might be of interest to you, WRT plaxo: http://osdir.com/ml/mail.roundcube.devel/2006-10/msg00013.html Jan 27 00:56:42 johnx: I'm wondering this http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/gpe-contacts/ Jan 27 00:57:15 yup, that's pretty nice, but sadly doesn't integrate with the default applications like chat and email (as far as I remember) Jan 27 00:58:03 johnx: Oh..so if I used the default thing..it'll integrate with email and chat....ok...what is chat...I've not clicked that button..I went straight to pidgin. Jan 27 00:58:42 ah, then you probably don't care all that much so it might be best just to go for gpe-contacts :) Jan 27 00:59:51 Does it do any sort of syncying? I don't have to use plaxo...if there is some other standard/protocal/service I can use...feel free to suggest it. Jan 27 01:00:16 sorry, no good ideas :/ Jan 27 01:00:37 * johnx reads about plaxo :) Jan 27 01:02:13 \ Jan 27 01:05:21 * timeless frowns Jan 27 01:05:27 i'm pretty sure this string isn't reachable Jan 27 01:05:36 anyone here have a bluetooth file share? Jan 27 01:05:48 does file manager *ever* let you rename a file via bluetooth? Jan 27 01:23:14 LinuxHack3r: how's that quest for contacts going? Jan 27 01:31:43 * timeless sighs Jan 27 01:31:48 * timeless kicks chess Jan 27 01:32:27 * johnx mumbles about the real lack of modern PIM *anywhere* Jan 27 01:32:41 * jaem mumbles as well Jan 27 01:32:49 * timeless grumbles Jan 27 01:32:51 So... Jan 27 01:32:56 If a chess file is 'readonly' Jan 27 01:33:02 then game>save says: Jan 27 01:33:03 POSE Jan 27 01:33:13 "Game is read-only" Jan 27 01:33:25 last i checked, games themselves weren't things you wrote Jan 27 01:33:35 (you wrote to files [saved game *files]) Jan 27 01:33:36 ds3, I guess I should have qualified that :P Jan 27 01:34:12 but if you try to save the file w/ the same name Jan 27 01:34:15 using save as Jan 27 01:34:17 you get Jan 27 01:34:20 integrating POSE would be nice... a third Linux fork of the legendary PalmOS ;) Jan 27 01:34:31 Selected location is read-only Jan 27 01:35:22 ds3, heh...i dunno. relying on closed source apps that live in an emulated environment doesn't sit well with me Jan 27 01:35:30 and integration would be ... impossible Jan 27 01:35:49 well, something on the level of the gvm stuff but more open Jan 27 01:36:04 there are nice PalmOS Apps Jan 27 01:36:05 but the apps will never be open or able to integrate with the desktop Jan 27 01:36:14 hmm Jan 27 01:36:33 I won't be able to get at my contacts in pose/gvm from my email client Jan 27 01:37:02 you can... fake a hotsync with the pilotlink stuff Jan 27 01:37:32 wow...that totally doesn't sound awkward and crufty :P Jan 27 01:37:45 you forgot kludge Jan 27 01:38:02 the extensive library of legacy apps makes it worthwhile, IMO Jan 27 01:38:23 ok. stupid question time Jan 27 01:38:35 how does one make a file writable using file manager? :) Jan 27 01:38:37 I take your point, but relying on legacy apps that much is a dead-end path Jan 27 01:38:42 I'd be against it mainly for the reason that it removes motivation for people to do something better when there is a something 'good enough' Jan 27 01:38:50 timeless: the default maemo one? you can't AFAIK Jan 27 01:39:00 ... Jan 27 01:39:01 my pet example being flash Jan 27 01:39:16 find a usable modern PIM then :P Jan 27 01:39:16 jaem: is there a bug filed for that behavior? Jan 27 01:39:26 * timeless tries to figure out whose brilliant idea that was Jan 27 01:39:33 LookOut and its variants are completely unusable waste of time Jan 27 01:39:40 timeless: I just don't think you can change permissions at all in the Maemo FM Jan 27 01:39:52 probably because Joe User would mess something up Jan 27 01:40:19 we really need to start IGNORING Joe User or you get abominations like FF3 Jan 27 01:40:33 well, to a point - but you need to find a balance Jan 27 01:40:39 ds3, what's wrong with ff3? Jan 27 01:40:58 johnx: everything. it is unusable; the whole UI is messed up and broken Jan 27 01:40:58 that's why I like KDE4 - it has ridiculous amounts of configuration and tweakability, but you don't need to mess with almost any of it to get going Jan 27 01:41:20 ds3, back button, reload button, address bar. check. nope looks ok to me Jan 27 01:41:29 I think what the KDE team has done in providing functionality without it getting in your way is exemplary Jan 27 01:41:34 ds3? Jan 27 01:41:41 some of us use the right click menu Jan 27 01:41:50 they scrambled willy-nilly Jan 27 01:42:19 then there is the random delays they put in so users can't shoot themselves Jan 27 01:42:48 it took a ton of plugins in make FF2 usable (compared to seamonkey); now FF3 just makes that worse Jan 27 01:42:49 jaem, does kde4 make the options less invasive than kde3? Jan 27 01:43:14 well, I guess I can call myself joe user then :) Jan 27 01:43:49 then there is the maintaine of a SECOND history file totally against your config options Jan 27 01:43:50 johnx: I never really used KDE3 - I didn't like it - but I think they've done a better job of compromising between the two groups than a lot of software I've seen Jan 27 01:44:07 and what do you mean by "invasive"? Jan 27 01:44:33 oh and then there is the completely messed up behavior for people who LIKE point to focus Jan 27 01:44:37 .... Jan 27 01:44:42 jaem, for example the edit menu in a normal kde app is dozens of items long Jan 27 01:45:08 I guess Jan 27 01:45:44 I was referring more to the fact that it needs very little tweaking/setup to get going Jan 27 01:46:00 if you don't like to fiddle with settings, it still works fine Jan 27 01:46:08 but yeah, some of the dialogs are a bit scary Jan 27 01:46:11 johnx: your avatar is one of the first results for a "ubuntu jaunty on nokia n800" google image search; http://images.google.com/images?gbv=2&hl=en&q=ubuntu+jaunty+on+Nokia+N800&btnG=Search+Images --lol Jan 27 01:46:50 firefox, heh...wonder how that happened O_o (BTW, I never remember your nick now that you switched from b-man to firefox) Jan 27 01:47:26 happy? :) Jan 27 01:47:32 quite :) Jan 27 01:47:46 oh noez! Jan 27 01:47:54 b-man, I'm more likely to actually notice you're around now Jan 27 01:49:17 hehe, just remember that i'm usally firefox or b-man ;) Jan 27 01:49:55 my brain is set to ignore firefox though :P Jan 27 01:50:03 * b-man uses firefox to deal with nick-collisions and for fun ;) Jan 27 01:50:21 johnx: lol Jan 27 01:50:21 would the N810 be considered a cell phone, or a computer, for customs purposes? Jan 27 01:50:25 you have nick collisions with a nick like b-man? or you mean instead of ghosting yourself? Jan 27 01:50:37 jaem, a bar of soap or a whiskey flask Jan 27 01:50:43 haha Jan 27 01:50:44 gohsting myself Jan 27 01:51:00 re; ghosting ;p Jan 27 01:53:28 * b-man wonders why google has not noticed the screenshots i've been uploading for ubuntu jaunty :p Jan 27 01:54:35 (on several websites) Jan 27 01:55:12 I actually don't see many screenshots on google images Jan 27 01:55:18 for anything Jan 27 01:57:17 i have a 770 want to test mer. i have deb/ubuntu chops but no c h4kkor skeelz. perhaps I could help with documenting install process? Jan 27 01:57:52 edrex, ah, that would be great! Jan 27 01:58:32 i mean my 770 wants to test mer. it keeps making this wailing sound Jan 27 01:58:52 not really Jan 27 01:59:11 yeah, that might be time for an exorcism not an OS install O_o Jan 27 02:00:11 is http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer/Releases/0.6 all the install documentatio? Jan 27 02:00:40 that's it for right now Jan 27 02:01:05 anything you wanted to add would be great Jan 27 02:01:11 i was so surprised to find mer today. It's really great to see everyone pull together Jan 27 02:01:48 oh man... FedEx is gouging me Jan 27 02:02:01 lol Jan 27 02:02:02 $61 to ship it one way, for a device that only cost me $380 Jan 27 02:02:46 anyone have more detail on the line "770 port has problems with sapwood..."? Jan 27 02:02:48 yeah, things are really starting to come together. :) Jan 27 02:02:55 I'm not seriously considering it right now, but, out of curiousity, is the "internal mmc" actually a socketed MMC card that one could feasibly replace by taking apart the N810? Jan 27 02:02:59 edrex, ah. that's not accurate any more :) Jan 27 02:03:02 like, how to fix Jan 27 02:03:04 sapwood is fine now Jan 27 02:03:18 do I need a more recent image than 0.6? Jan 27 02:03:30 johnx: random, silly, and off-topic question, why did you crop your avatar to not display the "i don't know what your talking about, so here's a rabbit with a bun on his head" typo? Jan 27 02:03:44 edrex, you can just apt-get update && apt-get upgrade once you install Jan 27 02:04:18 johnx: thanks, I'll note that on wiki Jan 27 02:05:12 * b-man starts to create a diff of merinstaller_1.9.4-1mer1 for stskeeps Jan 27 02:05:16 b-man, I didn't want to distract people with something that makes sense Jan 27 02:05:20 johnx: no x so using usb for network? Jan 27 02:05:32 or is there cnetworkmanager? Jan 27 02:06:04 johnx: lol Jan 27 02:06:23 edrex, use usb network for now. I don't think wifi is working right yet on the 770 Jan 27 02:06:32 r2d2rogers, did you ever get wifi working in mer? Jan 27 02:09:46 stupid noob question - but what is the performance of mer currently and expected? In a nutshell, can it be as fast as maemo on N8x0 hardware or is there more overhead? Jan 27 02:09:55 night Jan 27 02:10:13 johnx: no Jan 27 02:10:40 soap, I think it should be roughly the same in general, and hopefully the browser will be a little faster compared to the default browser in maemo Jan 27 02:11:17 r2d2rogers: have a plan? Jan 27 02:12:22 johnx I've just installed 32bit Jaunty for the SDK Jan 27 02:12:32 r2d2rogers: I know there was an open driver release for 8x0 a couple of months ago, but at the time it didn't seem like 770 support would be added Jan 27 02:13:31 edrex: I have source and patches to compile Jan 27 02:13:34 right now we're using the old Nokia driver on the n8x0 too Jan 27 02:14:21 johnx, so the main "advantage" as far as an end user is concerned is the continuation of support through userspace updates which Nokia will likely never get around to? Jan 27 02:15:02 johnx: right, is the problem that the 770 driver won't work with newer kernels? Jan 27 02:16:32 hi, AndrewFBlack Jan 27 02:16:35 edrex, yeah Jan 27 02:16:50 Hey b-man Jan 27 02:16:54 soap, well, the other advantage is having access to ubuntu's software library :) Jan 27 02:17:00 Whats up Jan 27 02:17:18 hmm, Clan Bomber. ;) Jan 27 02:18:08 johnx, last stupid question. I assume the goal is not to go full gnome? but to keep a more minimal WM and DE? Jan 27 02:18:47 soap, the goal is to be maemo compatible :) Jan 27 02:19:03 so, we'll stick with hildon-desktop and bring the libraries up the fremantle levels Jan 27 02:19:21 *up to fremantle versions Jan 27 02:19:34 creating a fuew sorce packages for merinstaller 1.9.4 Jan 27 02:21:26 tasty Jan 27 02:27:26 lol - http://www.millne.com/wp-content/uploads/15042008373-small.jpg Jan 27 02:28:35 nice Jan 27 02:28:36 r2d2rogers: you're looking at the work done by Andrew de Quincey? I'm reading the list archive now. Jan 27 02:30:36 Kalle is very helpful. Thankfully lawyers can't understand piglatin Jan 27 02:40:42 * b-man thinks about installing the rotation kernel and give it a try in ubuntu/mer Jan 27 02:42:16 johnx: do you think rotation might crash xorg? Jan 27 02:42:29 b-man, I think it probably will at this point, yes Jan 27 02:42:39 hmm Jan 27 02:42:47 xserver-xorg-video-omapfb probably nees to have rotation support added **** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Jan 27 02:59:57 2009