**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Jan 29 02:59:57 2009 Jan 29 03:00:26 if the mmc is not inside, it forbidden me to transfer from pc to nokia 770 Jan 29 03:00:50 yes Jan 29 03:00:58 you can't mount the internal memory via USB Jan 29 03:01:26 the n810 has an internal 2gb memory card that you can access via USB Jan 29 03:02:03 but the 770 only allows you to access the external mmc card with USB Jan 29 03:02:44 You could do usb-networking, and NFS or such, but no direct access to internal memory. Jan 29 03:02:52 so it is an hardware problem Jan 29 03:03:10 it's not a flaw Jan 29 03:03:15 A filesystem can't be mounted on both machines, or it will be corrupted. Jan 29 03:03:24 it is a limit for nokia 770 Jan 29 03:03:29 it just that the device needs to be able to access the internal memory itself :) Jan 29 03:03:57 you can't access the boot drive via USB on any of the nokia tablets Jan 29 03:07:20 another thing Jan 29 03:07:40 i would create a false mmc Jan 29 03:08:32 It has to be a separate filesystem. Jan 29 03:08:37 Only the pins of a mmc and from the other part a pen usb of 1 gb Jan 29 03:08:51 Ah, I misunderstood. Jan 29 03:09:18 That would be a challenging project. Jan 29 03:09:30 have you seen the gold contacts of mmc ? Jan 29 03:09:30 Why not get a microSD? Jan 29 03:09:43 And make an adapter. Jan 29 03:10:09 MMC != USB, you'd need interface logic. Jan 29 03:10:20 i would to break umount the shell of mmc card Jan 29 03:10:40 But microSD/RSMMC adapter is just mechanical, no electronics. Jan 29 03:11:00 and to sold with cables an adaptor for pen usb Jan 29 03:14:00 are you benson that lives in germany and got sony ericsson p900 ? Jan 29 03:17:26 anyone know if on the nokia 900 is possible to mount GNU/linux ? Jan 29 03:18:14 i know that there is a package sdk to program in c and c++ Jan 29 03:18:43 and to realize xhtml pages for wap Jan 29 03:22:38 i go to sleep Jan 29 03:22:45 bye bye Jan 29 03:22:56 Pavlz: this is what I meant: Jan 29 03:22:58 http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25185 Jan 29 03:23:06 For the adaptor. Jan 29 03:24:57 i solved the problem Jan 29 03:25:40 i did more little the songs of ramones uning GNU/audacity Jan 29 03:25:54 I wonder how hard it'd be to get nano on this thing? Jan 29 03:26:10 and compress them of 9 on 10 Jan 29 03:26:35 and i reduced the size to 1,1 mb Jan 29 03:27:16 then i sended as attachment for e-mail and i downloaded it Jan 29 03:28:26 LinuxHack3r: apt-get install nano Jan 29 03:28:39 GNU/nano is a text editor Jan 29 03:28:46 LinuxHack3r: you need the diablo tools repo, it looks like. Jan 29 03:29:21 benson: Is the diable tools repo "official/safe"? Will it work fine? Will it possibly screw anything up? Jan 29 03:29:29 Yep. Jan 29 03:29:33 and is very easy to use, more easy than vi Jan 29 03:29:49 With Diablo, they split the SDK into tools and sdk. Jan 29 03:30:07 sdk is still dangerous on-device, but tools is safe. Jan 29 03:30:37 benson: Ok ok...where is a link to this thing? Jan 29 03:30:47 * benson is looking already... Jan 29 03:31:52 http://repository.maemo.org/#sdk_releases Jan 29 03:32:13 describes the repo, but doesn't explain that sdk is safe on-device. Jan 29 03:32:22 rms doesn't use vi, why in roman characters, VI, VI, VI means 666 the number of Hell Jan 29 03:32:40 I know something official indicated it's safe, but not finding it just now. Jan 29 03:33:03 http://maemo.org/development/tools Jan 29 03:33:46 Pavlz: Actually, 666 is DCLXVI; the reason RMS doesn't use it is competition with EMACS. Jan 29 03:34:23 HURD is just a cover story, the real GNU OS is EMACS. Jan 29 03:35:07 GeneralAntilles: thx Jan 29 03:36:04 GeneralAntilles: benson Thanks! Jan 29 03:38:04 GNU/EMACS is a text editor Jan 29 03:38:32 Pavlz, you don't need to slap GNU/ in front of everything. :) Jan 29 03:38:47 The N810's back in stock http://www.buy.com/prod/nokia-n810-internet-tablet-full-pull-out-qwerty-keyboard-810/q/loc/101/206228943.html Jan 29 03:38:48 No, it's really an OS, cleverly disguised as a vastly overpowered text editor. ;) Jan 29 03:38:52 * GeneralAntilles is sorely tempted. Jan 29 03:38:58 written by rms, a dear friend that i know in the real life Jan 29 03:39:33 and is based on lisp+ artificial intelligence Jan 29 03:40:47 i put GNU/linux why is the correct syntax Jan 29 03:41:13 * benson is tempted, but not quite sorely. Jan 29 03:41:38 Pavlz: GNU/Linux denotes GNU _and_ Linux. Jan 29 03:41:40 if we want to speak of operating system GNU/linux is correct Jan 29 03:42:12 Proper designation of nano is "GNU nano", indicating nano written by GNU. Jan 29 03:42:22 it is not correct to say linux, why linux is a monolithic kernel Jan 29 03:42:49 And leaving off the GNU from GNU projects is usually fine, unless there's a non-GNU project of the same or similar name. Jan 29 03:43:45 when you want to eat an apple you say i want an apple or you say i want an orange ? Jan 29 03:44:10 they are fruits, but are different things Jan 29 03:44:27 I don't say anything. I wakt to the fridge, and grab an apple. Jan 29 03:44:30 :p Jan 29 03:44:35 there is Jan 29 03:45:22 GNU/HURD that is based on the microkernel Mach Jan 29 03:46:20 that was an example Jan 29 03:46:54 but Mach is used by apple computer cupertino inc Jan 29 03:47:10 for the project XNU Jan 29 03:47:32 Nano! Jan 29 03:48:13 actually the fsf.org is searching developers for GNU/Step visit http://gnu.org Jan 29 03:48:36 GNU/nano is correct Jan 29 03:49:48 GNU/EMACS, GNU/Audacity, GNU/Vlc Jan 29 03:50:16 GNU/nano is not correct. The / means the wrong thing there. Jan 29 03:50:26 See, GNU/HURD is GNU userland on top of HURD. Jan 29 03:50:34 And GNU/Linux is GNU userland on top of Linux. Jan 29 03:50:46 GNU/GNOME, GNU/GTK Jan 29 03:51:00 But GNU nano is the GNU project nano, not GNU and nano. So no / in there. Jan 29 03:51:45 HURD is a system of process servers Jan 29 03:51:46 It's the same argument why RMS says to always pronounce the / in GNU/Linux, so people don't take it as "GNU Linux". Jan 29 03:52:18 HURD is over the microkernel Mach Jan 29 03:53:14 and to connect Mach with GNU were necessary HURD in orgin Alix Jan 29 03:53:45 GNU slash linux Jan 29 03:54:15 it s easy to say Jan 29 03:54:52 i see that you are for open source Jan 29 03:55:45 so you stay with linus torvalds benedict and eric s s raymond Jan 29 03:56:07 troll invasion? Jan 29 03:57:00 that say the freedom is not important, but it is important to use the softwares without to see the terms of license Jan 29 03:57:49 First, yes, I am in the OSS camp. Of course, you utterly misrepresent my position, and that of the majority of the OSS camp. Jan 29 03:57:57 free software is the devil Jan 29 03:58:12 But it doesn't matter; unless you claim that RMS is OSS too. Jan 29 03:58:19 Read http://www.gnu.org/gnu/gnu-linux-faq.html#whyslash Jan 29 03:58:35 RMS makes exactly the point I've been trying to. Jan 29 03:58:41 Mousey, no ur teh devil. Jan 29 03:58:54 i stay from the part of free software 'free software refers not price but freedom so think free spech, not free beer' rms Jan 29 03:59:15 ^M^ Jan 29 03:59:37 Pavlz: i say turn around, the pews are behind you Jan 29 03:59:49 * Mousey feeds teh trulz Jan 29 04:03:53 http://www.gnu-linux.it http://paolodelbene.pbwiki.com/hacking http://paolodelbene.pbwiki.com/Intervista+a+Richard+Matthew+Stallman+ http://paolodelbene.pbwiki.com/FrontPage http://gnuandlinux.blogspot.com Jan 29 04:06:12 and in September for 15 days i have had correspondence with rms, we celebrate the 27 September 1983 25 years of GNU Jan 29 04:06:17 i am a volunteer for fsf.org and fsfeurope.org Jan 29 04:06:17 sure am glad my n800 can tether to this g1 Jan 29 04:06:57 uhm Jan 29 04:08:16 T-mobile g1? I thought the g1 didn't do DUN? Jan 29 04:08:39 doesn't Jan 29 04:08:52 i rooted it and wifi/adhoc tether it Jan 29 04:09:02 Ah, cool. Jan 29 04:09:04 hax Jan 29 04:09:17 it's great Jan 29 04:09:17 heh Jan 29 04:11:42 there is too a news the sgi in the same period decided to release opengl under the terms of mit license and fsf.org is happy for this good thing Jan 29 04:12:49 i want to see how the people that use GNU/linux to play with games that are not free software in the future will play Jan 29 04:13:41 Is there a trick to setting up ssh key's for this thing? Jan 29 04:14:07 LinuxHack3r: no different to other openssh installations. Jan 29 04:14:13 Pavlz, what are you rambling on about? Jan 29 04:14:19 why all the games that are not free software are based on directx of microsoft Jan 29 04:14:40 benson: I've gotten to the poing of this:ssh-agent sh -c 'ssh-add < /dev/null && bash' Jan 29 04:14:50 benson: Following this: Jan 29 04:14:56 http://pkeck.myweb.uga.edu/ssh/ Jan 29 04:15:15 would be nice to have a multi user thing going on for maemo Jan 29 04:15:18 I think we're supposed to believe him over pages on gnu.org regarding nomenclature, because he knows RMS. Jan 29 04:15:56 i don't understand how opengl relates to maemo Jan 29 04:16:02 LinuxHack3r: Ah, I haven't messed with sssh-agent, sorry. Jan 29 04:16:24 s/sss/ss/ Jan 29 04:16:24 benson meant: LinuxHack3r: Ah, I haven't messed with ssh-agent, sorry. Jan 29 04:16:26 benson: Well...all I want to do is to make it so I don't have to type the password everytime. Jan 29 04:16:43 infobot: WTH? Jan 29 04:16:44 What The Hell is wth? Jan 29 04:16:46 infobot: ;) Jan 29 04:16:47 (: Jan 29 04:16:59 infobot: Alright, I've had enough! WTF? Jan 29 04:17:09 Pavlov, why do you use pbwiki? pbwiki is not free software! :X Jan 29 04:17:10 Don't need ssh-agent for that. Just make a key, and put the public key in trusted keys. Jan 29 04:17:40 oops Jan 29 04:17:40 xD Jan 29 04:17:49 it wasn't Pavlov, I meant Pavlz Jan 29 04:18:10 So if you've already got a key made on your desktop, it'll be in .ssh/id_rsa.pub or some such. Jan 29 04:18:13 i speak for os2006 it has problems to open more windows or Jan 29 04:18:48 put that in ~/.ssh/authorized_keys on your tablet. Jan 29 04:18:49 to download a file and to surf on internet Jan 29 04:19:03 There is os2008 already. Jan 29 04:19:04 benson: Letme try that. Jan 29 04:19:26 in os2008 have you solved this thing ? Jan 29 04:19:48 benson: I think I was going about it backwards. First...let's do this. When I installed openssh server on my tablet..it asked for a root password. when I ssh into it, I do so as the root. So tell me..how would I ssh into my tablet as user? Jan 29 04:19:50 Clarification: Put the contents of id_rsa.pub in authorized_keys, not the name. Jan 29 04:20:13 ssh user@tablet.example.com Jan 29 04:20:40 hm Jan 29 04:20:53 welcome to 2009 Jan 29 04:22:03 in italy we just beginned bad the year Jan 29 04:23:04 benson: for the user...what would the password be? Jan 29 04:23:18 Hey Jan 29 04:23:51 Nothing, unless you have set one, but if you use public-key authentication, you don't need one. Jan 29 04:24:34 As root, you can do _passwd user_ to set one Jan 29 04:24:48 benson: Ok..I'm somewhat new to ssh keys. I deleted the .ssh/ on both the tablet and the server. I'm going to ssh into the server from the tablet. Jan 29 04:24:52 But permitting password authentication on ssh is weak. Jan 29 04:25:07 but now many people are not satisfied of berlusconi, and i am happy for this, why Italian people thinked that berlusconi could to do the Italian Miracle Jan 29 04:25:09 So walk me through this...what do I do? Jan 29 04:25:25 Do I generate the key on the tablet or server? Jan 29 04:25:52 Is the Italian Miracle a bit like the American Dream? Jan 29 04:26:14 Ummm... you use that key-maker-thing... on the not-tablet. (But when you're sshing into the tablet, the tablet is the server, and the other machine is the client. Jan 29 04:27:00 ssh-keygen Jan 29 04:27:07 benson: I understand...I'm setting it up for the other way though. So I can ssh into the server from the tablet. Key maker thing...ssh-keygen... Jan 29 04:27:17 Sincerely not, but we got a President that nominate a female Minister Jan 29 04:27:28 benson: ssh-keygen -t dsa , wonder what the tdsa does? Jan 29 04:27:33 Ok, then ssh-keygen on the tablet in that case. Jan 29 04:27:44 type: DSA Jan 29 04:27:50 Other option is RSA Jan 29 04:27:57 why this one suck the cock to berlusconi Jan 29 04:28:06 (May be more, but those are the common ones.) Jan 29 04:28:49 Pavlz: I suppose that qualifies as ministrations. Jan 29 04:29:07 benson: Ok...setup a key...now what? Jan 29 04:29:29 I guess Italian politics is like American, ala Bill Clinton... Jan 29 04:29:48 i think that so many girls can became ministers Jan 29 04:30:05 not all Jan 29 04:30:24 Then dump the contents of .ssh/id_dsa.pub on the tablet into .ssh/authorized_keys on the server. Jan 29 04:30:29 benson: Now I have to copy the iddsa.pub to the server? Jan 29 04:30:51 what do you mean, dump the contents? open, copy, and paste to the autorized_keys on the server? Jan 29 04:31:03 i am with a Left called Sinstra Critica, Critic Left Jan 29 04:31:31 and are all young guys of 24 years Jan 29 04:31:34 That could work. Or copy the file onto the server, then Jan 29 04:31:53 benson: scp ~/.ssh/id_dsa.pub burly:.ssh/authorized_keys2 Jan 29 04:31:54 like that? Jan 29 04:32:03 cat id_dsa.pub >> ~/.ssh/authorized_keys Jan 29 04:32:06 are all guys that study to the university Jan 29 04:32:19 Yep, that will do it since you're starting clean. Jan 29 04:32:46 But if you already had authorized keys there (from other systems), then you'd obliterate them. Jan 29 04:33:04 anyone know why I would get error invalid optiom --j when untaring easy debian image? Jan 29 04:33:08 and this left has as manifesto the interest for Jan 29 04:33:11 One key per line in that file, so just appending them is good. Jan 29 04:33:35 AFBN810: because tar isn't GNU tar, it's busybox. Jan 29 04:33:38 Ok...file is there... Jan 29 04:34:01 Either get GNU tar, or bunzip2 it first, and then tar/ Jan 29 04:34:25 LinuxHack3r: You should be able to ssh from the tablet now, and it won't ask about the password. Jan 29 04:34:34 let me try. Jan 29 04:35:03 ecology, femminist and communist Jan 29 04:35:46 benson I have gnu tar Jan 29 04:35:54 benson: You're right...it's not asking for the password...now it's asking for the passphrase ;) Jan 29 04:36:05 Ah, ok. Jan 29 04:36:11 we moved for the movement of GayPride, the GLBT Jan 29 04:36:27 If you don't use a passphrase, it doesn't prompt at all. :p Jan 29 04:36:47 benson: But I heard it is bad to not use one. Jan 29 04:37:00 Pavlz, this is #maemo, not #politics. :) Jan 29 04:37:01 Of course, then you have to be more careful about quickly revoking your keys of someone gains access. Jan 29 04:37:27 The passphrase makes them take a while cracking it. Jan 29 04:37:58 benson: Ok...but the key is uniquly generated...right? Meaning someone cannot just create a key themselves from scratch with no passphrase and use it, right? Jan 29 04:37:59 But if they never get your privaste key, you're safe without. Jan 29 04:38:09 Exactly. Jan 29 04:38:36 benson: So...delete the .ssh/* on the public, same for the tablet...do again with no passphrase..got it. Jan 29 04:39:00 benson what command do I use to use gnu tar if tar wont do it Jan 29 04:39:19 * benson is not a security consultant, but at least he's not a lawyer either. Jan 29 04:39:49 So don't trust me, or at least don't blame me when you get h4x0r3d Jan 29 04:39:54 benson: Well...if you are at least sure it is somewhat safe...ok. what could possibly go wrong? Jan 29 04:40:03 ;? Jan 29 04:40:15 AFBN810: You have to install it from somewhere, first. Jan 29 04:40:32 * benson checks if I have it. Jan 29 04:40:39 benson already have it installed Jan 29 04:41:00 OK, then just run it. Jan 29 04:41:30 benson: Sweet..works.... Jan 29 04:41:40 from terminal? Jan 29 04:41:49 Yup. Jan 29 04:42:00 LinuxHack3r: Good. Jan 29 04:42:41 Then you probably want to generate a key on the server, and any other machines you use. Jan 29 04:43:06 Put all the public keys in one file, and copy it as .ssh/authorized_keys in all of them. Jan 29 04:43:18 Then you can log in from any of them, to any of them. Jan 29 04:43:29 benson: would this do it tar -xjvf debian-chroot-img-final.tar.bz2 Jan 29 04:43:43 benson: Now how can I add a password to the user thing/ Jan 29 04:44:31 And then consider preventing password authentication, so botnets don't break in byu gfuessing passwords. Jan 29 04:44:48 AFBN810: no, gtar xjvf deb* Jan 29 04:45:35 LinuxHack3r: passwd user Jan 29 04:45:43 (as root) Jan 29 04:46:08 got it thanks Jan 29 04:47:13 But yes..your idea about the file will work very well. Jan 29 04:48:13 with 3 machines..a tablet..desktop..and server...would that mean they'd be 6 keys? Jan 29 04:48:39 Nope, 3 keys. Jan 29 04:49:06 Each key represents one user, and you drop the public key anywhere that user should get a free login. Jan 29 04:49:28 benson: Hm....so generate one for the desktop and server...then you are good to go! Just paste the other two keys into the one file...then copy that file! Gotcha! That's simple. Jan 29 04:49:40 (OK, maybe 6 keys, if you have keys for root on each box... Jan 29 04:49:53 ) Jan 29 04:49:53 No no no..why why why ;)? Jan 29 04:50:52 That way, you can have root on any box allowed as root on any other box, and your normal user as the equivalent on any other box. Jan 29 04:51:30 I see...I may save that for tommorow...I'mma going to try and setup the other two keys fast. Jan 29 04:51:33 But if you leave your account up and someone walks by, they can't grab root by sshing to root@otherbox. Jan 29 04:51:55 Oh, and thanks for bringing this up. Jan 29 04:52:20 But noone I know does that sort of stuff. What is root? What is ssh? Why is your screen black with green text? You must have seen the matrix too many times. BTW, NP. Jan 29 04:52:25 I am setting up a new box here, and this pushed me to get my keys distributed to it. Jan 29 04:53:23 Hehe. Just setting up my system here, and I have some major black w/green going on. Jan 29 04:53:51 For the first time in my life, I cared enough to fight with .Xdefaults and really change some stuff around. Jan 29 04:53:52 benson: So public is what I copy to the master file? the contents of it I mean, line after line? Jan 29 04:54:35 Yep, each pub key is one line. Stack them up, and put it as authorized_keys Jan 29 04:56:11 benson: That's cool...on my ubuntu box it gave me randomart image! Jan 29 04:58:39 OK, now I'm in showoff mode, have to find a screendump program... Jan 29 05:03:34 benson: go right ahead...but...is there a way in nano to copy the entire line? Jan 29 05:03:40 even what you cannot see? Jan 29 05:03:54 IDK, don't use nano. Jan 29 05:04:38 But cat file1 >> file2 appends file1 to file2, worst case you may have to add a newline manually/ Jan 29 05:05:00 (I meant, I don't use nano, not ordering you to not use nano...) Jan 29 05:05:27 Gotcha...just trying to do this painlessly as possible. Jan 29 05:11:23 anybody awake running mer on 770? Jan 29 05:11:53 wondering how long it takes at the "pivot root and starting /sbin/init.." step Jan 29 05:12:01 i think it froze :) Jan 29 05:14:16 * edrex nudges r2d2rogers Jan 29 05:14:30 hey everybody Jan 29 05:14:57 hi Jan 29 05:16:33 benson: This doesn't make sense...I copied and everything...but it just doesn't seem to work correctly. Perhaps I forgot to save something somewheres. Jan 29 05:16:45 a few days ago, someone (Stskeeps, I think) had mentioned getting my blag syndicated on Planet Maemo... who do I talk to about that? Jan 29 05:17:38 Hmm... Here comes jumbo pastage... Jan 29 05:17:56 benson: Oh got it...I figured it out. Jan 29 05:18:03 Mine looks like: Jan 29 05:18:07 Oh, ok. Jan 29 05:18:15 Pastage aborted. Jan 29 05:19:37 jaem, planet.maemo.org Jan 29 05:19:59 yes, but in regards to getting a landing permit on said planet...? Jan 29 05:20:23 jaem, see the sidebar. :) Jan 29 05:20:29 ah Jan 29 05:23:30 benson: my fingers>tablet>server>desktop>tablet...it's the only way I can actually get things done ;) Jan 29 05:25:09 benson: Thanks..you really helped me a lot. l8r Jan 29 05:26:02 np Jan 29 05:26:15 So someone tell me..perhaps benson..the default mail thing on this n810..gmail over imap...it doesn't load pics. Jan 29 05:26:52 nope Jan 29 05:27:01 jaem: Can I make it? Jan 29 05:27:09 Yep. Jan 29 05:27:17 benson: How? Jan 29 05:27:20 Don't remember how, though. Jan 29 05:27:32 Somewhere in gconf, there's a setting. Jan 29 05:28:27 you remember the file? or at least what the program is calleD? Jan 29 05:29:05 Ummm... I would use gconf-editor to set it, if that's what you mean. Jan 29 05:29:20 gconf is like the Windows registry Jan 29 05:29:50 http://www.maemoapps.com/2008/06/26/howto-enable-graphics-in-html-mail/ Jan 29 05:31:47 benson: I don't have gconf-editor Jan 29 05:31:53 it should be in extras Jan 29 05:32:28 maemo Extras? Jan 29 05:33:36 There's no other Jan 29 05:34:27 Yep, apt-cache policy gconf-editor confirms it. ;) Jan 29 05:34:28 GAN800: benson: Jan 29 05:34:30 BTW: gconf-editor still doesnt show up in extras, you'll have to enable extras/chinook to get it AFAIK. (We should open a thread about the state of extras some day here...) Jan 29 05:34:45 http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23480 Jan 29 05:34:53 Nope, it's in diablo. Jan 29 05:35:33 ran as root:pt-get install gconf-editor Jan 29 05:35:43 apt-get install gconf-editor Jan 29 05:36:21 what's apt-cache policy gconf-editor say? Jan 29 05:36:45 I have it listing it from both chinook and diablo extras... Jan 29 05:36:55 unable to locate ~~~~~~~~ Jan 29 05:37:03 mmm... bits... my ISP just upgraded me from 10Mbps to 15 with no extra charge Jan 29 05:37:46 benson: ^ Jan 29 05:38:37 Strange. Jan 29 05:40:43 benson: Not sure if it makes a difference..but in the catalogue details for meamo extras, the components are free non-free, just wondering if perhaps you had another? Jan 29 05:40:54 No Jan 29 05:41:05 That's normal; it's in free. Jan 29 05:42:04 GAN800: benson maemo Linux Baed 0s2008, version 5.2008.43-7...control panel about. Jan 29 05:45:11 LinuxHack3r: apt-get update ? Jan 29 05:45:36 tried it. Jan 29 05:45:55 http://www.flickr.com/photos/31311658@N07/3235274481/ Jan 29 05:46:13 ^ screenshot. I _have_ watched the matrix too much. :D Jan 29 05:46:41 benson: I'm famous!!!!!!!!!!! Jan 29 05:47:14 Strangely, upon close inspection, mine shows it as existing on both chinook and Diablo, but says I have the Chinook one installed... Jan 29 05:47:29 Same version, though, so I'm not sure how it knows... Jan 29 05:48:05 benson: Why isn't it working for me though...it's strange. Yesterday I did some strange open up the catalog, type matrix, and then choose the red pill thing. Is that strange? Jan 29 05:48:23 Anyway, you can always pull the .deb directly and install it. Jan 29 05:48:32 It's just funny it doesn't work... Jan 29 05:49:02 red pill is deprecated, but shouldn't break this AFAIK. Jan 29 05:49:39 wth how is vim taking up more space than any other app? that's crazy. Jan 29 05:49:48 vim is evil. Jan 29 05:49:55 How much space? Jan 29 05:50:08 19MB Jan 29 05:50:16 O.o Jan 29 05:50:22 Red Pill isn't deprecated, it's just evil. ;) Jan 29 05:50:46 "/etc/apt/sources.list", that where these repo things live? Jan 29 05:51:03 I believe they're in /etc/apt/sources.list.d/hildon-application-manager Jan 29 05:51:05 or some such thing Jan 29 05:51:31 Yeah, both. Jan 29 05:51:54 h-a-m puts them in /etc/apt/sources.list.d/hildon-application-manager Jan 29 05:52:18 h-a-m puts them in /etc/apt/sources.list.d/hildon-application-manager.list, actually Jan 29 05:52:52 But apt looks in /etc/apt/sources.list, too; h-a-m just can't manage those. Jan 29 05:53:30 Hmm.. Jan 29 05:53:47 benson: I have nothing in sources.list Jan 29 05:54:10 Yeah, that's normal. Jan 29 05:54:29 But I got plenty done for today...I'll do this tommmorow. Jan 29 05:59:36 * johnx returns Jan 29 05:59:54 hai Jan 29 06:00:20 I slept for around 13 hours. O_o guess I needed it Jan 29 06:05:28 hi johnx! ever heard of consistent i/o instability with the card slot on 770? (ie across kernels, cards) Jan 29 06:05:41 hmm Jan 29 06:06:09 I know that the mmc drivers for linux weren't always the most reliable Jan 29 06:06:50 i have a bad card reader i think, but I'm wondering if something can be done to boost the voltage etc, since it just has trouble with certain sectors, which read/write fine on other card slots Jan 29 06:07:36 maybe if I just stick a toothbrush in there... Jan 29 06:07:40 The latch on my N800 is going back to silver again. Jan 29 06:07:56 GAN800, ahaha. mine hasn't yet Jan 29 06:08:06 you bought yours in January '07, right? Jan 29 06:08:14 Yeah Jan 29 06:08:34 i'll check mine in another month then :) Jan 29 06:08:34 I want a new goddamn tablet. >:( Jan 29 06:10:03 heh Jan 29 06:10:12 I just need a new battery Jan 29 06:10:47 this sounds really similar to my issue: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=745569&highlight=nokia+770 Jan 29 06:10:57 I'm using one from a woot 770 Jan 29 06:12:01 GAN800: you still have the 770? Jan 29 06:12:11 i have a battery and a wonky 770 Jan 29 06:12:44 I'm still on the original but in addition to not getting great life anymore it's also starting to make the battery meter act weird Jan 29 06:12:57 I'm thinking that the voltage is fluctuating a lot Jan 29 06:13:26 edrex, yeah, I've seen similar on a couple zauruses in the past Jan 29 06:14:05 sl5600 in a drawer that kills sd cards Jan 29 06:14:20 it's a frankenstein with a digitizer from a dell axim Jan 29 06:16:46 I think it's some kind of thing about cards acting slightly differently and just not being tested with the linux mmc driver code before they're released Jan 29 06:17:30 johnx: the devices or the cards? Jan 29 06:17:39 i've tried with a range of cards Jan 29 06:17:41 the drivers Jan 29 06:17:52 and the cards :) Jan 29 06:18:12 things have improved a lot, I think, since 2.6.16 Jan 29 06:18:29 well nobody else with a 770 seems to have this sort of issue. except the guy on the ubuntu forum above Jan 29 06:18:54 johnx: hmm, i wonder if it's any better on a newer omap kernel Jan 29 06:19:04 what's missing in the new kernels? Jan 29 06:19:39 should be possible to port the wifi module non? Jan 29 06:20:00 I believe the wifi module for the 770 involves a closed source component? Jan 29 06:20:22 yes but i thought it was isolated from the kernel Jan 29 06:20:43 I got the impression that it wasn't ... Jan 29 06:20:48 calibration is one thing, that's kernel-indep. maybe there is another closed component Jan 29 06:21:23 well I should test with a newer kernel, and see if the sd slot is better Jan 29 06:21:54 yeah, it certainly improved on my Zaurus C1000 as the kernel versions went up :) Jan 29 06:22:17 then I would at least know whether it was worth pursuing (of course it's not since the 770 sells for $50 on ebay, but I hate ditching good hw) Jan 29 06:22:37 same thing here :) Jan 29 06:23:21 i recall using poky linux a year ago and it worked awesome on 770. were they using a newer kernel? hmm... Jan 29 06:24:22 hmm they're using 2.6.18, not much better Jan 29 06:27:00 wtf Jan 29 06:27:14 i think my n800 battery is fucked Jan 29 06:27:27 it hardly lasted 3 hrs Jan 29 06:27:37 how old is it? Jan 29 06:27:45 and what are you doing with it? :P Jan 29 06:27:48 unless running off the sd sucks that much Jan 29 06:27:54 1 yr Jan 29 06:28:05 Ummm... 3 years is pretty good for a Li-ion. Jan 29 06:28:13 wasnt doing much Jan 29 06:28:29 it used to last longer than this Jan 29 06:28:33 wifi on? playing video? Jan 29 06:28:36 1 year? not horrible. Jan 29 06:28:44 wifi yes Jan 29 06:28:55 have it tethered to my g1 Jan 29 06:28:56 From what I hear, that's typical. Jan 29 06:29:03 adhoc Jan 29 06:29:04 yeah, batteries do get worse over time, especially if you drain them flat all the time Jan 29 06:29:17 Also, one of mine is getting pretty weak-sauce, and I've had one of them for a year. Jan 29 06:29:19 i do ;) Jan 29 06:29:31 Of course, I don't know which is which... Jan 29 06:29:40 heh Jan 29 06:29:58 n800 + g1 is nice Jan 29 06:29:59 can probably look at the serial number and guess Jan 29 06:30:13 Macer, which is faster for web surfing? Jan 29 06:30:25 900kbit Jan 29 06:30:33 the n800 Jan 29 06:30:37 :) Jan 29 06:30:47 g1 is still good tho Jan 29 06:30:53 nice browser Jan 29 06:30:55 are you using microb on the n800 or a webkit-based browser? Jan 29 06:31:02 microb Jan 29 06:31:13 running maemo on it Jan 29 06:31:29 microb isnt bad at all Jan 29 06:31:34 bbiab Jan 29 06:31:44 it's not bad. the replacement webkit engine for it is quite impressive though Jan 29 06:37:56 johnx: is tear very usable? Jan 29 06:38:10 quite Jan 29 06:38:30 reminds me: I need to try the latest release :) Jan 29 06:38:47 I've been using the webkit engine for the Nokia browser ui a lot too Jan 29 06:39:16 johnx: they use the same webkit lib? Jan 29 06:39:26 i'm rather space-limited Jan 29 06:39:30 I think they can, or they can use different ones Jan 29 06:39:41 ah. me too :/ Jan 29 06:42:05 well Jan 29 06:42:17 going to watch a vid now Jan 29 06:42:28 enjoy Jan 29 06:42:28 i missed my n800 Jan 29 06:42:37 wish i had an n810 Jan 29 06:42:50 for the qwerty Jan 29 06:43:12 think i'll wait on the n900 Jan 29 06:43:14 You know they're back in stock at buy.com, $220 Jan 29 06:43:15 I really need to try an n810 and compare that keyboard against my zaurus... Jan 29 06:43:29 and get an n810 for $20 Jan 29 06:43:38 morn Jan 29 06:43:40 G1 support tethering? Jan 29 06:43:48 mornin' Stskeeps Jan 29 06:43:48 ds3 yes Jan 29 06:43:58 have to root it Jan 29 06:43:58 ds3, only as a hack Jan 29 06:44:01 Macer: w/o hacking the OS? Jan 29 06:44:04 Oh like that bah Jan 29 06:44:15 it is easy to do Jan 29 06:44:16 I need a nice tethering GSM phone Jan 29 06:44:23 better too Jan 29 06:44:40 can get open updates Jan 29 06:44:50 ds3, N-series? Jan 29 06:44:53 enough things to hack.... need something that just works Jan 29 06:45:05 instead of waiting 3 yrs for tmob Jan 29 06:45:15 mm, gf home now so im prolly only online during work and free time Jan 29 06:45:20 GAN800: do the N-series work better then the older nokia phones for tethering? Jan 29 06:45:28 get an n95 Jan 29 06:45:43 mine worked great with att Jan 29 06:45:45 i.e. can it remain ready to accept a bluetooth DUN connection all the time w/o me having to select a menu option? Jan 29 06:45:45 ds3, as far as I'm aware there are no issues. Jan 29 06:45:55 yes Jan 29 06:46:01 what's the N95's battery life like? Jan 29 06:46:11 crappy w/g3 Jan 29 06:46:19 Stskeeps, sounds good. Take a break and enjoy. :) I'll look at the other items in red Jan 29 06:46:23 what's crappy? Jan 29 06:46:27 like 2 hrs constant use? Jan 29 06:46:27 I have a Samsung SGH-A717 as a dumb phone for tethering and voice currently. Jan 29 06:46:28 1 day? 2 days? Jan 29 06:46:33 Oh Jan 29 06:46:34 maybe 3 Jan 29 06:46:41 3g is killer Jan 29 06:46:46 yah Jan 29 06:46:50 TMO don't have much 3G Jan 29 06:46:58 plain EDGE is sufficient Jan 29 06:47:09 I get 3 or 4 hours on my Samsung Jan 29 06:47:09 they use a different freq Jan 29 06:47:15 1700 Jan 29 06:47:23 att uses 1900 Jan 29 06:47:29 I want a "phone" that's just a dumbphone with bt and HSPA built around a 4 cell Li-ion :) Jan 29 06:47:35 but does TMO even have 3G in most areas? Jan 29 06:47:40 my n95 doesnt work with tmob Jan 29 06:47:49 johnx: yeah... something like that Jan 29 06:47:55 johnx haha! Jan 29 06:48:00 ds3: not most... Jan 29 06:48:10 not here. :( Jan 29 06:48:12 johnx, 6650 fold uses the BP-4L Jan 29 06:48:27 johnx.. go old school Jan 29 06:48:27 But I get along fine with EDGE. Jan 29 06:48:28 GAN800, ok, then it needs 3 more cells and I'll be happy Jan 29 06:48:32 get a suitcase phone Jan 29 06:48:34 arrggg.... why does it have to be so difficult to find a good tethering phone to replace an aging Treo650 @#$@^%@$$$@# Jan 29 06:48:55 ds3 .. n95 is great for it Jan 29 06:49:06 you won't find a long battery life on any 3G phone Jan 29 06:49:08 ds3, because cellcos don't make money off tethering Jan 29 06:49:17 heh Jan 29 06:49:25 Macer: I get about 12hours of use on the Treo650... and that is not what I am hearing about the N95 Jan 29 06:49:28 johnx, well, it's better than most. ;) Jan 29 06:49:29 johnx.. you should see the abortion called skype lite for android Jan 29 06:49:33 johnx: they can go eat dirt... Jan 29 06:49:44 ds3 because it is edge? Jan 29 06:49:54 ds3, just get the RX-51? Jan 29 06:50:03 Macer: yep... so you are saying I can get about that much using EDGE on a N95? Jan 29 06:50:13 yyes Jan 29 06:50:18 heh Jan 29 06:50:18 Ohhhh Jan 29 06:50:24 * johnx 's going to stuff a gumstix w/ HSPA modem and a laptop battery into a Motorola DynaTac Jan 29 06:50:25 GAN800: what's a RX-51? Jan 29 06:50:34 ds3, next Maemo tablet. Jan 29 06:50:40 oh the OMAP3 thingie Jan 29 06:50:45 what are they going to sell at? Jan 29 06:50:45 OMAP3, HSPA, etc. Jan 29 06:50:48 starting price? Jan 29 06:50:50 I'll market it as "a phone you could beat someone to death with" Jan 29 06:51:01 I don't think I want the phone/radio tied into the same battery as my tablet Jan 29 06:51:09 i hope they don't screw you with the skype Jan 29 06:51:11 Hehe Jan 29 06:51:14 and that it remains voip Jan 29 06:51:18 the one for android calls a number Jan 29 06:51:25 No phone, just data Jan 29 06:51:26 and uses skype money to make calls Jan 29 06:51:29 what a load of shit Jan 29 06:51:38 it is nice to be able to fall back to a free WiFi after the phone battery dies Jan 29 06:51:47 speaking of which.. now that i am tethered.. i can use skype on my n800 Jan 29 06:51:49 ds3, and vice versa :) Jan 29 06:51:58 i think i'm going to get an earpiece for my n80 Jan 29 06:51:58 nice to be able to make calls after my tablet conks out for the day Jan 29 06:52:08 I wouldn't mind the all-one-battery aspect... Jan 29 06:52:09 * benson stuffs 3 pocketpowers in my jacket and 1 in my pants. Jan 29 06:52:20 johnx: eh? I see about 3 days of usage on the tablet battery vs 12hours on the treo Jan 29 06:52:23 haha Jan 29 06:52:39 ds3, aaah, a treo and a fresh tablet battery. opposite situation to me Jan 29 06:52:45 pocket powers? Jan 29 06:52:47 Yeah, Skype works fine over EDGE here. Jan 29 06:52:59 johnx: how do you get that much life out of a treo?! Jan 29 06:53:00 you can'tget actual cell calls while on edge tho Jan 29 06:53:05 can't do both at once i shoud say Jan 29 06:53:12 Macer: Battery pack w/ built-in inverter Jan 29 06:53:17 voice is a secondary communications channel for me Jan 29 06:53:19 ds3, no treo. :) I have a neat little SE not-quite-smartphone and a tablet with an ancient abused battery Jan 29 06:53:20 Got 'em cheap off woot. Jan 29 06:53:20 that's awesome Jan 29 06:53:27 i need to get something like that Jan 29 06:53:43 benson, inverter?! O_o ugh Jan 29 06:53:48 rechargable? or something you have to shove batteries in? Jan 29 06:53:51 oh Jan 29 06:54:10 rechargeable, they've got AAs inside, but you can';t access them. Jan 29 06:54:11 let me price out an N95 Jan 29 06:54:18 haha Jan 29 06:54:25 johnx, providers here talk about tethering as a use for their subscriptions and sure takes their price for the data Jan 29 06:54:28 benson, so it will give you AC current? Jan 29 06:54:40 StsN800: att does that Jan 29 06:54:44 and their tethering sucks Jan 29 06:54:49 att's network in general in chicago sucks Jan 29 06:54:59 which is why i dropped them Jan 29 06:55:09 hmmm not many sellers of the N95 Jan 29 06:55:16 StsN800, in the US they keep low prices for data plans to get people to buy them (normally no one does). and they want high prices for thethering at the same time Jan 29 06:55:25 n95 is the best phone i've ever had Jan 29 06:55:32 (wtf at charging different for tethering) Jan 29 06:55:32 if it worked with tmob i would have kept using it Jan 29 06:55:39 has anybody worked on stripping down an os2008he image? (removing minimo etc)? Jan 29 06:55:40 johnx, hehe, greedy fuckers Jan 29 06:55:43 what's wrong with N95 on TMO? Jan 29 06:55:45 jaska .. att charges almost fifty more Jan 29 06:56:00 ds3.. tmob uses a different freq Jan 29 06:56:06 none of them charge any different here Jan 29 06:56:07 i'm sure you can find one that supports it Jan 29 06:56:09 macer: just for 3G Jan 29 06:56:13 right? Jan 29 06:56:13 yes Jan 29 06:56:18 they use 1700 Jan 29 06:56:19 johnx: Yes, AC and USB output. Jan 29 06:56:20 StsN800, that's what happens with government sponsored cabals Jan 29 06:56:23 http://www.flickr.com/photos/31311658@N07/3214279987/ Jan 29 06:56:49 benson, sweet jebus, that's huge! Jan 29 06:56:55 trust me tho.. not sure if you have used 3g . but it's worth it Jan 29 06:56:58 find an outlet haha Jan 29 06:57:01 grumble Jan 29 06:57:02 Fits fine in a hip pocket. Jan 29 06:57:14 it's like going back to a dial up after using a fast cable modem for a year Jan 29 06:57:17 wonder if those low end samsung TMO carries will do data tethering Jan 29 06:57:20 And it can't be beat when something needs AC. Jan 29 06:57:33 ds3, likely Jan 29 06:57:34 ds3.. someone here has one.. i wouldn't touch that piece of shit Jan 29 06:57:34 But there's better options for USB only. Jan 29 06:57:36 heh Jan 29 06:57:44 i love my G1 Jan 29 06:57:52 android is a pretty good os Jan 29 06:57:53 benson, but you don't even need the inverter for what you're doing. it's taking up a big part of the space I bet Jan 29 06:57:54 Macer: what's the problem? Jan 29 06:57:58 Indeed. Jan 29 06:57:59 Android blows chunks Jan 29 06:58:04 and the G1 feels cheap Jan 29 06:58:07 i think it's great heh Jan 29 06:58:09 Like I said, they were cheap. Jan 29 06:58:11 java-only for apps, wtf? Jan 29 06:58:15 yeah.. the g1 does feel flimsy Jan 29 06:58:20 but the os is worth it Jan 29 06:58:21 And my jacket has pocket-space to spare. Jan 29 06:58:28 maybe that's cuz I been working too much with the Android stuff Jan 29 06:58:44 (And I don't have a USB charger for my N800, yet.) Jan 29 06:58:46 personally i think it's great Jan 29 06:58:48 Macer: know if the Debian reflash for the G1 will support tethering? Jan 29 06:59:09 no.. i have been using open firmware updates Jan 29 06:59:29 have 2 finger zooming for the browser now Jan 29 06:59:50 can you use the on phone browser at the same time it is tethered? Jan 29 06:59:52 i know they were having problems with their bt stack which is why they didn't get dun working Jan 29 06:59:57 sure Jan 29 06:59:59 benson, re moblin thread, i'm not disagreeing on mer being a more potential player than moblin.. moblin looks like a joke Jan 29 07:00:00 does it seem like they're going to really go nuts preventing people from hacking? or will they turn a blind eye? Jan 29 07:00:06 but like i said.. i am tethering over wifi Jan 29 07:00:15 oh :P Jan 29 07:00:19 johnx.. i don't think google cares Jan 29 07:00:26 tmob is probably more pissy at it than them Jan 29 07:00:26 ds3: debian on g1? Jan 29 07:00:35 edrex: yeah Jan 29 07:00:43 android on top? Jan 29 07:00:46 especially when they find out everybody is wifi tethering which can't be tracked Jan 29 07:00:49 haha Jan 29 07:00:49 nope, replaces android Jan 29 07:00:52 would be funny to have t-mo trying to lock down android. wonder how far that'd get :) Jan 29 07:01:07 dun requires a "call" and access point to proxy Jan 29 07:01:10 Macer: t-mobile allows tethering. Jan 29 07:01:16 I might consider the G1 if the phone module is usable in debian Jan 29 07:01:20 benson.. not on their 3g networks Jan 29 07:01:20 ds3: do your calls go into /var/log/syslog? Jan 29 07:01:27 ;P Jan 29 07:01:40 macer: not if you have a valid data plan Jan 29 07:01:41 they will cut you off if they find out you are using a 3G phone as a modem Jan 29 07:01:49 edrex: no idea Jan 29 07:01:50 Oh, ok. Thought they were the same. Jan 29 07:01:52 which they don't Jan 29 07:02:03 the only true data plan they have is for their pda phones Jan 29 07:02:18 which is why they don't say "unlimited data" Jan 29 07:02:20 What do you mean? Jan 29 07:02:29 they say "unlimited borwsing, unlimited email" Jan 29 07:02:34 I have their old data plan Jan 29 07:02:37 browsing Jan 29 07:02:41 not the current stuff they offer Jan 29 07:02:44 I have unlimited tetherage at $5.99... so far. Jan 29 07:02:56 when i asked about it at the actual place they said you can not use it as a mdem Jan 29 07:03:07 But that's not gonna last forever, I know... Jan 29 07:03:18 a data plan and tethering plan are different things Jan 29 07:03:26 att charges fifty for a tethering plan Jan 29 07:03:33 you access a different ap Jan 29 07:03:36 they clearly said tethering was allowed on this plan Jan 29 07:03:49 wow.. they told me i couldn't Jan 29 07:03:50 I can tether with my $20 plan Jan 29 07:03:57 ds3: enough things to hack.... need something that just work then ds3: I might consider the G1 if the phone module is usable in debian Jan 29 07:04:06 :) Jan 29 07:04:15 nice catch edrex :) Jan 29 07:04:17 Macer: my plan is no longer offered Jan 29 07:04:28 either way it goes.. they will probably get pissy when they relize their network is going to shit because people like me are downloading 200MB videos Jan 29 07:04:43 edrex: the debian comment is about using it as a hacked device... not a daily use device Jan 29 07:04:45 to watch on my n80 or g1 Jan 29 07:04:45 heh Jan 29 07:05:00 i.e. as a modem to play with; the first one was for an actual replacement of the Treo Jan 29 07:05:08 edrex: clarified? =) Jan 29 07:05:24 first phone i used for it was a sanyo with sprint back in the day when it was a new thing Jan 29 07:05:24 i'm considering g1. hope I don't have to hack it to be useful Jan 29 07:05:32 edrex .. you do Jan 29 07:05:47 you can use it quite a bit stock.. but it's a lot better if you just go ahead and hack root on it Jan 29 07:05:56 wouldn't mind a phone with ubuntu tho. what's happening with that moko thingie Jan 29 07:06:01 it will be considered a toy like the Motorola Linux phones, except their modems aren't fully working in the replacement OS Jan 29 07:06:29 never saw the motorolas Jan 29 07:06:33 edrex, just hold out for Mer: phone edition Jan 29 07:06:39 i don't know.. i dno't think it's a toy.. i think if they get some good apps going on it .. then it will be just as good as maemo Jan 29 07:06:47 they are working on androffice Jan 29 07:06:47 heh Jan 29 07:07:29 hmm, no aptitude in maemo-extras. how to whittle down image with no aptitude? Jan 29 07:07:38 moo all Jan 29 07:07:46 edrex, apt-get and dpkg Jan 29 07:07:53 gronk RST38h Jan 29 07:08:35 johnx: dpkg --get-selections will tell me what's installed. but aptitude will tell me size, dependencies, etc, so I can dump unneeded libs Jan 29 07:08:52 edrex, ah, hmm. one sec :) Jan 29 07:09:09 aptitude is on -developers Jan 29 07:09:18 ah, thx GAN800 Jan 29 07:09:25 GAN800, bah! well that takes all the fun out of it Jan 29 07:10:44 haha Jan 29 07:10:55 ah well.. ttyl Jan 29 07:11:40 GAN800: is that extras-devel? Jan 29 07:16:28 edrex, or you could do this: http://pastebin.ca/1321523 Jan 29 07:17:59 very useful. still haven't found developers.. Jan 29 07:18:58 kind of takes forever though O_o; Jan 29 07:21:09 https://garage.maemo.org/projects/aptitude/ Jan 29 07:21:45 Hmmm... no arm debs, though, i386 only. Jan 29 07:22:13 hmm dpkg --status `dpkg --get-selections` might be faster Jan 29 07:22:39 ah, didn't know dpkg --status would act on more than one package Jan 29 07:23:53 i have the benefit of a debian machine with full manpages :) Jan 29 07:24:00 -developers meant maemo-developers@maemo.org, I think: Jan 29 07:24:02 http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail//maemo-developers/2009-January/054009.html Jan 29 07:24:16 edrex, I didn't even RTFM :) Jan 29 07:28:44 can't get the output to look nice tho Jan 29 07:32:48 a Jan 29 07:33:04 somebody mentioned maemo-mini-curl, but I can't find it anywhere. Is it already installed somewhere, as an apt-get dependency? Jan 29 07:33:15 yes Jan 29 07:33:19 it's part of apt Jan 29 07:34:24 but it's not on my path anywhere Jan 29 07:35:44 ls /usr/bin/maemo-mini-curl Jan 29 07:35:51 wait, which OS version is this? Jan 29 07:36:01 johnx: it's not there in 2008he Jan 29 07:36:22 huh. might be a diablo thing then Jan 29 07:36:31 maybe they changed apt-get to use libcurl directly or something Jan 29 07:36:33 bah Jan 29 07:36:42 it's part of apt-https Jan 29 07:36:44 is diablo newer Jan 29 07:36:56 yeah, diablo is the second OS2008 release Jan 29 07:37:07 2008he is based on chinook (the first os2008) Jan 29 07:37:25 do you have the apt-https package? and what files does it own? Jan 29 07:40:19 it's not avail. might try to install from diablo Jan 29 07:41:30 strange there isn't actually a binary package at http://repository.maemo.org/pool/diablo/free/a/apt-https/ Jan 29 07:41:33 ah well ... Jan 29 07:41:35 :) Jan 29 07:41:56 my quest to trim the cruft from 2008he Jan 29 07:41:57 aaah, I wonder if this has to do with access to the locked diablo upgrades section Jan 29 07:49:22 johnx, planning to test kernel plus jffs image today Jan 29 07:53:04 buongiorno Jan 29 07:57:02 wb johnx Jan 29 07:57:29 new hal-info on my desktop ate my inet connection (!!) Jan 29 07:58:11 that was a rather inelegant upgrade... Jan 29 07:58:20 anyways, I gotta head out to work Jan 29 07:58:35 will probably be on at various points during work, as usual :) Jan 29 07:59:09 cya Jan 29 07:59:20 johnx: Say hi to Japanese students :) Jan 29 07:59:52 will do Jan 29 07:59:57 konbanwa? Jan 29 08:10:24 does tear integrate with the maemo browser menu (wondering how much of microb is advisable to rip out) Jan 29 08:11:05 You mean the navigator menu? Jan 29 08:11:16 There's a new one for Tear. Jan 29 08:11:18 yes Jan 29 08:11:43 so it comes with it's own menu? I'm trying to make room in 2008he for tear, etc Jan 29 08:12:14 Not comes with, separately developed. Jan 29 08:12:38 http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26475&page=2 Jan 29 08:12:50 by TrueJournals Jan 29 08:13:32 ah, thx Jan 29 08:14:14 hmm freed only 10M Jan 29 08:16:10 Morning Jan 29 08:17:37 morning. Jan 29 08:20:28 gnuton!! Jan 29 08:20:36 BTW, am I the only one experiencing 1-3 second delays in MediaBox? Jan 29 08:20:40 Even when scrolling? Jan 29 08:22:00 Jucato: 'morning! :D Jan 29 08:22:31 good day to you too :) Jan 29 08:23:35 StsN801: so looks like I'm stuck with os on internal flash. strangely, the 64M card that came with the device works great as swap Jan 29 08:23:59 wondering about possibility of creating a stripped down Mer Jan 29 08:24:32 I could just do a berserker run through the tarball as a "proof of concept" :) Jan 29 08:26:22 (ie, small enough to fit in 128M internal flash) Jan 29 08:31:26 Jucato: what time is it there? Jan 29 08:31:35 16:31 :D Jan 29 08:32:02 Jucato: haha :D ok Jan 29 08:35:24 edrex: should be possible but i'm not sure how good it fits Jan 29 08:35:41 edrex: you can probably play with the imager Jan 29 08:36:43 Stskeeps: i'll try to set up a scratchbox or whatever you developer types call it on my ubuntu box Jan 29 08:36:48 :) Jan 29 08:36:56 edrex: ah, i'd rather recommend a qemu-arm VM Jan 29 08:37:02 for the imaging purposes Jan 29 08:37:03 ah Jan 29 08:37:11 i use this virtual machine..: Jan 29 08:37:37 i can just install aptitude on that since it has universe and everything right? Jan 29 08:38:01 with aptitude I should be able to whittle it down pretty good Jan 29 08:38:12 mm, well, i use a debian armel VM and then just grab ubuntu's debootstrap Jan 29 08:38:16 and grab our imager (a big shell script) Jan 29 08:39:04 so is there a point at which you're running the image in qemu? Jan 29 08:39:11 edrex: no, we just generate it there Jan 29 08:39:26 as in chrooting Jan 29 08:39:32 ie, how do you select packages etc? are they just hardcoded in the script? Jan 29 08:39:50 ah, I' should just try it and find out Jan 29 08:40:03 http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mer-committers/m-r/imager/files , look at targets/ platforms/ foundations/ Jan 29 08:41:29 looks a bit like openembedded Jan 29 08:41:34 http://people.debian.org/~aurel32/qemu/armel/ Jan 29 08:41:50 edrex: well this is all debootstrap and apt-get tricks + chroot Jan 29 08:42:26 i also have a script that builds jffs images and such Jan 29 08:43:55 http://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/generate-images.txt Jan 29 08:44:17 is there a way to run the final image in qemu, just to experiement? Jan 29 08:45:05 possibly, but you need a versatile kernel Jan 29 08:45:28 as it's a different platform it emulates, it doesn't do 770 emulation Jan 29 08:46:08 ah Jan 29 08:47:56 it's strange, there is one card that works reliably with my 770 Jan 29 08:51:39 the 128mb one? :P Jan 29 08:51:53 64mb, that comes with the device Jan 29 08:51:58 ah Jan 29 08:52:04 with badblocks check and all? Jan 29 08:52:11 ya, it's solid Jan 29 08:52:23 Khertan: around? Jan 29 08:52:23 even with 48khz kernel Jan 29 08:52:46 edrex: hmm Jan 29 08:52:49 http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2009/0122092meat1.html Jan 29 08:53:08 and the other cards work fine with a reader, so they're not really fried. maybe not enough voltage in the 770 or something Jan 29 08:53:09 hey, Sts, how is Mer going? =) Jan 29 08:53:15 RST38h: good, really Jan 29 08:53:25 i mean, looking at moblin goals.. we're doing great Jan 29 08:53:38 Sts:Have you finally integrated closed components? Jan 29 08:53:58 RST38h: not yet, i need to make a proper list to be sent to the lawyers Jan 29 08:54:12 seriously though Jan 29 08:54:13 http://arstechnica.com/open-source/news/2009/01/intel-releases-linux-based-moblin-2-alpha-for-netbooks.ars Jan 29 08:54:17 this is a joke. Jan 29 08:54:24 they want to pass off XFCE as a "mobile environment" Jan 29 08:54:28 btw, you do have a technical proof-of-concept version of Mer with these components integrated? Jan 29 08:54:48 RST38h: i know how to integrate them from deblet times Jan 29 08:55:00 Well, XFCE is a reasonable choice. Jan 29 08:55:01 and from experiments Jan 29 08:55:18 RST38h: yes, but xfce is in no way power saving, it's a desktop.. Jan 29 08:55:34 and thinking of how long time they have worked on this stuff, they really stalled Jan 29 08:56:18 It is lighweight and as far as eyecandy goes, they have got some implementation freedom Jan 29 08:56:40 Sts: Power saving has nothing to do with the desktop sw Jan 29 08:56:42 yeah, but anyone can whip up a xfce desktop Jan 29 08:56:51 Sts: They have started from scratch with Moblin2 Jan 29 08:57:08 <`0660> gnome seems fast enough on atom Jan 29 08:57:30 Besides, the main point of Moblin is not to have a nice desktop but to develop low level mobile stuff for intle chips Jan 29 08:57:35 wifi, power saving, etc Jan 29 08:57:53 hello everybody) Jan 29 08:58:08 morning wazd Jan 29 08:58:28 Palm's totally dumbasses. To make a calculator on OMAP3 x( Jan 29 08:58:49 wazd: Is it news to you? :) Jan 29 08:59:31 ~flashing Jan 29 08:59:32 flashing is, like, http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware Jan 29 08:59:54 RST38h: I don't get how a human can be such an idiot) Jan 29 08:59:56 Morning, all Jan 29 09:00:05 Jaffa|gone: hey) Jan 29 09:00:30 * Stskeeps tests out jffs2 version of mer Jan 29 09:00:38 RST38h: It's like adding 30 km/h limiter to Veyron :) Jan 29 09:00:53 wazd: This isn't news since their first ARM based hw came out Jan 29 09:01:04 wazd: You know how it worked? ;) Jan 29 09:01:27 Stskeeps: hmm there is alot that could be stripped out. icons, vim, universe repo would get it down around 230M Jan 29 09:01:33 still a ways to go Jan 29 09:01:49 edrex: yeah Jan 29 09:01:49 ,\RST38h: Well, I was too young to know that ancient times) Jan 29 09:02:02 wazd: Basically the whole OS run in a 68020 *emulator* Jan 29 09:02:20 wazd: All the code was still 68000, not ARM Jan 29 09:02:41 lots of python and perl libs too Jan 29 09:02:53 wazd: Furthermore, the only way to run ARM application code was to make it a DLL with a single "native" entry Jan 29 09:02:56 RST38h: oh :) Then it's like step forward now for palm) Jan 29 09:03:10 it is nice to use my n800 on the move again Jan 29 09:03:19 wazd: There were exactly 2 screen resolutions: 160x180 and 320x320 (later, Sony added 480x320) Jan 29 09:03:39 * Stskeeps watches Mer boot from jffs \o/ Jan 29 09:03:57 jffs = Jaffa filesystem?) Jan 29 09:03:58 Stskeeps: Speed differences? Jan 29 09:04:11 wazd: You had to write your 68000 code in Metrowerks IDE that couldn't compile stuff without crashing at least once and each of your programs or DLLs was limited to 64000 bytes in size (don't ask) Jan 29 09:04:33 wazd: Have I forogtten to mention that PalmOS had no notion of "files" or "file system"? :) Jan 29 09:04:52 it has Jan 29 09:04:58 but only on external cars Jan 29 09:05:03 *cards :) Jan 29 09:05:16 ah yes - if your device supported an external card :) Jan 29 09:05:29 RST38h: well... :) Jan 29 09:05:44 RST38h: then they have a real revolution now) Jan 29 09:05:55 Programming for PalmOS was as close to zoophilia as I ever care to get Jan 29 09:06:53 hm Jan 29 09:06:56 I heard that Newton has some interesting kind of fs Jan 29 09:07:22 * RST38h was informed yesterday that Moscow has got the second largest WiMax netowkr in the world Jan 29 09:07:49 First being in Chicago, although Chicago one is not yet operational. Weird. Jan 29 09:08:11 RST38h: well, Moscow has 2 networks already) Jan 29 09:08:24 X-Fade: hm, since it doesnt boot completely i can't tell yet Jan 29 09:08:38 wazd: I think they guy just added 'em up Jan 29 09:08:41 robtaylor: ping? Jan 29 09:08:59 s/they/the/ Jan 29 09:08:59 RST38h meant: wazd: I think the guy just added 'em up Jan 29 09:24:18 monkeyiq: hey! Jan 29 09:24:53 monkeyiq: sorry i've not replied to your mail yet, too many things to do :/ Jan 29 09:26:15 robtaylor; no worries, I'll sit back and wait a while. Just making sure no SPAM or black hole bot chomped 'em ;) Jan 29 09:28:28 http://code.google.com/p/einstein/ Jan 29 09:28:43 Interesting, Tablets are mentioned Jan 29 09:31:09 wazd: yeah, think there was a port Jan 29 09:31:27 advanced-power often shows 165mHz in Mer Jan 29 09:31:47 In Maemo i have seen that only few times Jan 29 09:41:27 wazd: Does it mean they have got a secret port of NewtonOS for the NITs? Jan 29 09:46:41 i liked the newton Jan 29 09:46:52 RST38h: well, i've read that it works but needs some optimisations Jan 29 09:46:53 it was ahead of its time Jan 29 09:47:22 talk about a missed cornered market Jan 29 09:48:04 what cpu did Newton use anyway? Jan 29 09:48:22 Macer: It was AFTER the Atari Portfolio though Jan 29 09:48:30 And Atari was the original netbook, hehe Jan 29 09:49:06 20mhz arm) Jan 29 09:49:07 good morning Jan 29 09:49:17 florian: hey Jan 29 09:49:38 well.. Jan 29 09:49:55 usually arm based thigs ran newton Jan 29 09:50:22 RST38h: I't snot that secret, in that you can download it and run it. It's more of a runtime environment for which you still need the Newton's ROM Jan 29 09:52:31 For a portion of the Newton's development cycle (roughly the middle third), the project's intended programming language was Dylan Jan 29 09:52:44 wow... dylan? Jan 29 09:55:51 " Great news for iPhone development, as Apple now allows apps to communicate with each other. " Jan 29 09:55:54 oh wtf Jan 29 09:56:19 Macer: Even at the time of the Newton, there were more non-ARM machines running ARM chips than Newtons. Hell, there were more Archimedeses in use than Newtons Jan 29 09:56:55 Stskeeps: presumably something like "send some data to them they can pick up when they next start" (given they aren't permitted to multitask) Jan 29 09:57:34 heh Jan 29 09:58:02 iphones cant multitask? Jan 29 09:58:12 nope Jan 29 09:58:17 Macer: well, technicaly can Jan 29 09:58:20 wow Jan 29 09:58:29 Macer: ideologicaly no) Jan 29 09:58:52 didnt know that Jan 29 09:59:00 Jaffa: http://repo.moblin.org/connman/docs/connman-lk2008.pdf something to consider for Mer, maybe Jan 29 09:59:00 never used one Jan 29 09:59:05 ...a condition of their api Jan 29 09:59:47 Macer: you can enable multitasking after jailbreak though Jan 29 10:00:45 condition of their policy Jan 29 10:00:56 to fuck up IM client writers and such Jan 29 10:00:59 * Ki6AMD laughs at iPhone fans (including his friends) Jan 29 10:01:35 glass: well, they planned some background services to keep IM connections Jan 29 10:01:46 glass: but I don't know if they are on now Jan 29 10:01:46 background IM on the iPhone? Not happening Jan 29 10:02:04 No Jan 29 10:02:06 wazd: technically the os supports bg and has always supported so it's just bullshit-spinning-pr talk Jan 29 10:02:12 watching tudors on my n800 Jan 29 10:03:11 Stskeeps: Looks interesting. Assuming it's reusable and works Jan 29 10:03:12 Listening to a podcast while IRCing on my N810, while I download another podcast... try that on an iPhone Jan 29 10:03:26 Jaffa: yeah.. i wouldn't mind pushing for it even if i do like ICD Jan 29 10:03:51 Ki6AMD: well, it can do that stuff after jailbreak as I said) Jan 29 10:04:26 wazd: N810 does it out of the box Jan 29 10:04:42 KiAMD: so what?) Jan 29 10:04:45 Stskeeps: As long as the plugins are there to get the functionality, I like it Jan 29 10:05:04 KiAMD: n810 does not many things that iphone does) Jan 29 10:05:08 and if I wasn't a fan of my theme or OS I have a CHOICE Jan 29 10:05:36 wazd The N810 does more than what an iPhone can Jan 29 10:06:01 KiAMD: does it phones?) Jan 29 10:06:09 Yes Jan 29 10:06:17 Stskeeps: Says first release at Xmas - did it happen? Jan 29 10:06:24 Ki6AMD: okay, does it GSM phones?) Jan 29 10:06:32 Yes Jan 29 10:06:48 Stskeeps: ...and will it carry on as a project with the change in focus on Moblin Jan 29 10:06:57 Ki6AMD: we're talking bout different devices then) Jan 29 10:07:26 Jaffa: i think it was released, lemme see Jan 29 10:07:38 oh yea! can an iphone make you a sandwich?! Jan 29 10:07:53 GSM on the n810? /me needs to find out how to do that :/ Jan 29 10:07:59 I bluetooth connect to my FREE phone from AT&T and have unlimited bandwidth for $20 /mo. (Not $30) and make SIP calls Jan 29 10:08:11 aah Jan 29 10:08:13 Ki6AMD: btw, right now jailbreak is like installing an app, so you can consider it as an app Jan 29 10:08:43 it's not official.. you can't create daylight stuff and expect to get much users Jan 29 10:08:48 I also Watch my cable TV through my Hava TV, apple banned that from their app store with slingbox Jan 29 10:08:49 if it needs jailbreak Jan 29 10:09:26 but lunch-> Jan 29 10:09:29 Ki6AMD: You can't call from n810 itself Jan 29 10:09:30 wazd: ALL of my apps are 100% FREE Jan 29 10:09:46 wazd Yes I can Jan 29 10:09:50 Ki6AMD: I SEE YOU WITH NORMAL FONTSIZE!!11 Jan 29 10:10:17 Jaffa: http://git.moblin.org/repos/?p=projects/connman.git Jan 29 10:10:20 Ki6AMD: Under "phone" I meant cellphone calls Jan 29 10:10:31 without any connections and stuff Jan 29 10:10:37 Do you know what SIP is? Jan 29 10:10:55 Ki6AMD: you can't SIP in the middle of a field Jan 29 10:11:09 wazd, the iphone needs a connection too to make calls Jan 29 10:11:24 Ki6AMD: GSM, yep Jan 29 10:11:27 wazd: I can. Jan 29 10:11:43 I think we have Jesus in here :) Jan 29 10:12:08 I can connect through a GSM phone wirelessly tethered, or WiMax Jan 29 10:13:01 wazd: If there's no cell towers, neither of us can make a call... Jan 29 10:14:09 Ki6AMD: Let's compare one device, not pairs, tripples, bags and so on Jan 29 10:15:13 KiAMD: Or I'll say that my netbook can take 21 megapixel images and has changable lens just because it has USB :) Jan 29 10:15:24 So yes, if we are both on a deserted island you'll pray for a cell tower, and I'll pray for either a cell tower, wifi, or wimax Jan 29 10:15:32 why compare? just install mer on both :) Jan 29 10:15:46 compare both out of the box new Jan 29 10:15:54 Mer installs on the iPhone? Jan 29 10:15:56 no jailbreak Jan 29 10:16:10 tank-man: no additional software then Jan 29 10:16:12 compare them whilst falling from a plane while embedded in the windpipe of a giraffe Jan 29 10:16:13 tankman: thank you Jan 29 10:16:23 Fremantle SDK pre-alpha2 has been released !! Jan 29 10:16:24 http://maemo.org/news/announcements/07a262bcedec11ddabdc07d2d12051a151a1/ Jan 29 10:16:47 With a lot more open projects.. Jan 29 10:16:55 wazd: is this an iPhone irc room? I wasn't aware? Jan 29 10:17:04 wazd, what do you mean, iphone has an app store out of the box as the n8x0 have a package manager out of the box Jan 29 10:17:19 X-Fade: oh ffs Jan 29 10:17:26 X-Fade: this -always- happens when i have the least time to hack :( Jan 29 10:17:34 tank-man: iPhone has jailbreak ootb :) Jan 29 10:17:41 screw iphone Jan 29 10:17:48 Stskeeps: Heh, I can't help that.. Sorry :) Jan 29 10:17:49 What's boput fremantle) Jan 29 10:17:50 N810 supports Java ... enjoy that wazd Jan 29 10:18:19 This release features the Media Application Framework (formerly announced as MIDAS). Jan 29 10:18:30 ki6amd: technically sure, but in practice, is tehre a useful deb for it? Jan 29 10:18:36 And opened DSME and BusyBox.. Jan 29 10:18:44 X-Fade: finally Jan 29 10:18:56 https://garage.maemo.org/projects/dsm/ Jan 29 10:19:01 ok, https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/dsme/trunk/modules/emergencycalltracker.c?revision=155&root=dsm&view=markup Jan 29 10:19:04 x-fade: newer prealpha? Jan 29 10:19:08 this so points to a maemophone Jan 29 10:19:10 timeless: Yep Jan 29 10:19:11 a deb for java? it's installed by default Jan 29 10:19:29 +1 X-Fade :D Jan 29 10:19:38 4.1 UI goddamn... Jan 29 10:19:59 timeless: what? Jan 29 10:20:01 x-fade/et al, fwiw... Jan 29 10:20:02 wazd: Next release has the new UI. Jan 29 10:20:05 screeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeenshots! Jan 29 10:20:09 oh neat Jan 29 10:20:11 mxr.maemo.org/garage should be somewhat more current Jan 29 10:20:22 they have documented BME protocol for reading battery level Jan 29 10:20:22 not sure if it finished, but i asked swift to push an update our Jan 29 10:20:30 s/our$/out/ Jan 29 10:20:42 RST38h: UI's the same( Jan 29 10:20:46 the source index and symlinks will get pushed a bit later after the push Jan 29 10:21:01 wazd: yea, just read to that point Jan 29 10:22:07 Ki6AMD: ok, back to our compare, since SDK has nothing interesting for me :) Jan 29 10:22:21 Ki6AMD: Java is not in extras Jan 29 10:22:31 a news headline you'll never read: Nokia blocks an application in their repository because it competes with an App they have Jan 29 10:22:57 wazd JAVA is installed ootb! Jan 29 10:22:59 wazd: Java is in extras Jan 29 10:23:12 RST38h: orly?) Jan 29 10:23:15 wazd: it is pretty muchuseless though Jan 29 10:23:33 wazd: I.e. you *can* run hello world, and all those cheesy demo applets etc Jan 29 10:23:49 RST38h: and Opera for example?) Jan 29 10:23:58 wazd: but it does not run j2me stuff. Tried coercing it a few days ago (Jalimo does have PhoneME package) but it did not work Jan 29 10:24:01 I did say java, not JRE right? Jan 29 10:24:14 X-Fade: SVN is password protected for checkout on DSM Jan 29 10:24:21 AMD: if you mean javac, it also exists, natively Jan 29 10:24:21 Ki6AMD: what's the point of java then xD Jan 29 10:24:40 * Ki6AMD has a Mozilla based browser, NOT opera on his N810 Jan 29 10:25:26 Stskeeps: It has been opened a few moments ago, maybe a cronjob still needs to run.. Jan 29 10:25:48 YouTube, Myspace, the more than millions of websites that use Java, that Safari on the iPhone doesn't support Jan 29 10:26:14 Ki6AMD: I wonder where's java on the youtube Jan 29 10:26:23 Ki6AMD: Do you know what you're talking about? Jan 29 10:26:43 javascript != java Jan 29 10:26:45 I'm beginning to suspect you might not. Although, you are right, there is some form of JVM shipped in Maemo devices OOTB. Jan 29 10:26:54 Also, my bluetooth keyboard is nice, too bad iPhone doesn't support this apple keyboard I'm using on my N810 Jan 29 10:27:08 (Wayfinder has a whole load of Java classes shipped with it - presumably some commonality across platforms) Jan 29 10:27:35 Jaffa: Umgh, interesting Jan 29 10:27:41 oh sweet Jan 29 10:27:51 are we sure they are used Jan 29 10:27:56 it ships with .reg files as well. Jan 29 10:27:57 BTW Wayfinder just got bought out by some phone operator, right? Jan 29 10:28:03 Jaffa: You know the difference between Sun's JRE and Java right? Jan 29 10:28:43 No, there's JS, Java, and JRE Jan 29 10:28:55 Introduction of MAFW seems to indicate PHP Jan 29 10:28:55 these are 3 different products Jan 29 10:28:58 When will Quim be on live.twit.tv then? Jan 29 10:29:07 s/PHP/PMP/ Jan 29 10:29:07 RST38h meant: Introduction of MAFW seems to indicate PMP Jan 29 10:29:08 hehe Jan 29 10:29:08 http://sun.com Jan 29 10:29:14 yesterday Jan 29 10:29:25 lcuk: it's odd that when bytes are worried over in the image size, a whole load of code would be shipped that wasn't needed. But you may be right. Jan 29 10:29:44 * RST38h hands Ki6AMD a basket of assorted clues on different topics Jan 29 10:29:58 Ki6AMD: I know the difference between Sun's JRE, Java and JavaScript *very* well thank you. Jan 29 10:30:06 Ki6AMD: How's your bytecode assembler? ;-) Jan 29 10:30:09 jaffa, im betting the shotgun approach is in use with packaging Jan 29 10:30:14 * Ki6AMD hands RST38h a clue on Sun's products Jan 29 10:30:37 andre__: PING! Jan 29 10:30:48 RST38h: Yeah, the mutterings at OSiM from Nokia peeps was that the next device would be *very* multimedia focused (including large amounts on onboard storage) Jan 29 10:30:55 And the OMAP3 means much better video playback Jan 29 10:31:09 lcuk: Very possible, given that Wayfinder's third party anyway Jan 29 10:31:14 Jaffa: hope it wont be PMP) Jan 29 10:31:38 Jaffa then tell the crowd which of the 3 product is needed for youtube videos... JRE, Java or JS(which isn't actually a Sun product)? Jan 29 10:32:07 * Add RX-51 support. Jan 29 10:32:09 JavaScript. Which is an in-browser client side scripting execution language. Which people were pointing out to you. Oh, and Flash. Jan 29 10:32:13 well that's definately the codename then Jan 29 10:32:32 Jaffa: incorrect, both JS, and JAVA Jan 29 10:33:11 Windows has Java usually preinstalled, you might uninstall it and see what happens Jan 29 10:33:14 Ki6AMD: Given you keep capitalising "JAVA", when the name (& trademark) is "Java"; I'm not inclined to believe you. Please supply a URL on youtube.com which includes any Java for execution in the user agent. Jan 29 10:33:18 Aplle too Jan 29 10:33:36 Ki6AMD: Windows doesn't have Java preinstalled anymore. Where were you during the anti-trust trials? Jan 29 10:33:39 jaffa: 4053 :) Jan 29 10:33:53 Jaffa: uninstall Java and try going to youtube Jan 29 10:34:03 ji6amd: youtube uses flash 99% of the time Jan 29 10:34:13 Ki6AMD: I have no java here Jan 29 10:34:14 except when it just uses mp4 Jan 29 10:34:14 Jaffa: it is one of those cases where /ignore helps Jan 29 10:34:21 RST38h: Ah, perhaps. Jan 29 10:34:22 KiAMD: and i can watch youtube Jan 29 10:34:31 timeless: show me where it's an MP4 Jan 29 10:34:41 Ki6AMD: Well, given I can watch YouTube on a stock N810 without Java, you're talking bollocks. Jan 29 10:34:42 ki6amd: buy an iphone/ipod Jan 29 10:35:04 And waste good money Ha! Jan 29 10:35:04 timeless: heh, nice. Jan 29 10:35:04 Ki6AMD: I think you're really messing with java/javascript) Jan 29 10:35:16 m.youtube.com gives me .3gp Jan 29 10:35:20 which is a container format Jan 29 10:35:41 i don't speak 3gp, so i can't personally prove that it's containing mp4 Jan 29 10:35:48 suihkulokki: i could almost hug you for going for Xsession instead of the previous mess. Jan 29 10:35:49 timeless, they are .flv Jan 29 10:35:54 3gp is not flv Jan 29 10:35:59 that little i know Jan 29 10:36:04 http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6ei81W228ww&client=mv-google&gl=US&hl=en&warned=True Jan 29 10:36:17 rtsp://fgbf.rtsp-youtube.l.google.com/CkcLENy73wIaPgkM87Zt1bzo6RMYESARFEIJbXYtZ29vZ2xlSARSBXdhdGNoWg5DbGlja1RodW1ibmFpbGCK1sn0_OOt_ukBDA==/0/0/0/video.3gp Jan 29 10:36:21 it's clearly a 3gp Jan 29 10:36:31 timeless: no shit, the file is on the servers as .flv Jan 29 10:36:39 no. Jan 29 10:36:52 and who the hell cares what format the file is on the server? Jan 29 10:36:53 on http yes Jan 29 10:36:58 Ki6AMD: YouTube now store multiple copies on the server anyway. Jan 29 10:36:59 what matters is what format does the user get Jan 29 10:37:37 jaffa: i was about to file a bug and say "and images has a code path that can't happen" Jan 29 10:37:47 and then i decided, oh wait... just aybe... oh XXXX Jan 29 10:38:04 Umgh Jan 29 10:38:33 That was obviously an economical crisis related problem buying medication. Jan 29 10:38:55 alright Jan 29 10:39:04 so, at this point the only real offender i have is chat Jan 29 10:39:07 * timeless frowns Jan 29 10:39:12 anyone here want to try to break chat? Jan 29 10:40:34 the pre-alpha still wont install on actual device will it Jan 29 10:40:47 lcuk: no :) Jan 29 10:40:47 lcuk: on what device? :) Jan 29 10:40:57 lcuk: well, yes - the bits of the alpha which are in Mer Jan 29 10:41:00 if you mean a hypothetical unshipped hardware product Jan 29 10:41:03 s/alpha/pre-alpha Jan 29 10:41:09 Which hasn't been announced. Jan 29 10:41:16 then, dunno, it might, perhaps install there Jan 29 10:41:33 I'm scared of Nokia's tension to plastic( Jan 29 10:41:42 tension? Jan 29 10:41:50 (why oh why do people use big words?) Jan 29 10:41:51 lcuk: it is too patchy at the moment, so it won't install Jan 29 10:42:35 i know that Jan 29 10:42:41 timless: well, they started to put it everywhere Jan 29 10:42:53 wazd: ? Jan 29 10:42:53 wazd: you mean tendency Jan 29 10:42:59 * lcuk just wants real checking Jan 29 10:43:18 timeless: ah, crap, Mai ingish iz sleel bed :) Jan 29 10:43:42 wazd: just be careful about words w/ >6 letters :) Jan 29 10:45:26 btw, does anybody knows another widescreen phone with same sliding mechanism as n97?> Jan 29 10:45:52 wazd: why would someone here buy an n97? :) Jan 29 10:45:56 cause I think I saw n97 live in the moscow pub Jan 29 10:47:08 oh brother Jan 29 10:47:15 i just got an info banner 'not available' Jan 29 10:47:19 but i hadn't done anything yet! Jan 29 10:47:34 oh right so, um Jan 29 10:47:42 since i translated jarmo's en_FI Jan 29 10:47:48 could someone help me w/ some device en_FI? Jan 29 10:47:52 1. open contacts Jan 29 10:48:18 oh man Jan 29 10:48:20 um.. Jan 29 10:48:21 * timeless sighs Jan 29 10:48:24 omg, japaneese already have 3D-ready screens in phones... Jan 29 10:48:24 * timeless kicks presence Jan 29 10:48:40 Fremantle Stars have been selected: http://maemo.org/news/announcements/0eb8fdfeedec11ddb28e1b3c4d7b308a308a/ Jan 29 10:48:46 lcuk: Lucky you ;) Jan 29 10:48:52 X-Fade: cool Jan 29 10:48:53 presence broke my poor task navigator Jan 29 10:49:04 OMWeather! Woo!) Jan 29 10:49:09 "early access to hardware" bah Jan 29 10:49:41 * timeless wonders about the kind of hardware Jan 29 10:49:42 I think that's not my case :( Jan 29 10:49:45 Jaffa: A reason for you to visit lcuk then ;) Jan 29 10:49:48 it'll probably be klunky and ugly Jan 29 10:49:50 timeless: Final hardware.. Jan 29 10:49:55 final? Jan 29 10:49:59 wow, interesting Jan 29 10:50:01 timeless: Just before release. Jan 29 10:50:08 lcuk: gratz :) Jan 29 10:50:29 alright guys, please be careful, you're trying to build nokia-community relations, don't hurt them :) Jan 29 10:52:30 lcuk: anyway, congrats Jan 29 10:53:14 Stskeeps: so, will Mer 0.7 have updated components from the pre-alpha2? ;-) Jan 29 10:54:01 BlackBerry Storm costs $4 more than its purchase price to build Jan 29 10:54:41 hehehe Jan 29 10:54:46 RST38h: Are all bored people in russia read engadget?)) Jan 29 10:55:20 X-Fade: Why don't I see Maemo Mapper there? Jan 29 10:55:29 wazd: It is global, I think Jan 29 10:55:32 RST38h: Don't look at me ;) Jan 29 10:55:47 Besides, I am just reading a Google Reader feed Jan 29 11:01:08 Stskeeps: New SDK now also has upstart included. Jan 29 11:01:37 RST38h: I always wondered why Russia doesn't have proper IT-news portal Jan 29 11:01:55 Hmm and 2.6.27 kernel. Jan 29 11:01:55 RST38h: with it's own journalists, event covers and so on Jan 29 11:02:19 X-Fade: upstart is that 3ms boot time magic?) Jan 29 11:03:36 wazd: Well, it can help towards that goal.. Jan 29 11:06:47 well, lack of Maemo Mapper in the list probably mean that nokia will come up with it's own stuff Jan 29 11:06:59 wazd: OSM2GO is in there. Jan 29 11:07:07 wazd: Which is also a mapper. Jan 29 11:08:50 X-Fade: has it same ammount of functionality as MM? Jan 29 11:09:18 wazd: I have no idea. Jan 29 11:10:05 * timeless wonders how complicated it is to open file manager Jan 29 11:10:10 thoughtfix is speculating on RX-51 announcement date. Jan 29 11:11:55 Jaffa: not sure what's there to be updated just yet Jan 29 11:13:18 Jaffa: "We're starting a rumour" :) Jan 29 11:14:03 X-Fade: Say it three times & it's true :) Jan 29 11:14:19 Jaffa: Well, we can always hope that he is right :) Jan 29 11:14:37 Anyone else have problems with the Feedburner links on p.m.o, to - for example - thoughtfix's blog. I get "Redirect Loops" in Firefox Jan 29 11:14:55 ok, new libhildon Jan 29 11:14:58 * Stskeeps checks out changes Jan 29 11:16:25 wazd: Well, this question is really easy to answer Jan 29 11:16:47 wazd: http://arkanoid.livejournal.com/240211.html Jan 29 11:16:51 X-Fade: indeed. Fits with what was originally talked about/hinted at in September. Jan 29 11:18:46 * timeless frowns Jan 29 11:19:01 anyone here know how to get a really really really really big chat log? Jan 29 11:19:06 i need one that's about 1gb :) Jan 29 11:19:12 although i'd settle for one that's 20mb Jan 29 11:19:54 RST38h: what question?) Jan 29 11:20:03 RST38h: ah Jan 29 11:20:07 RST38h: got it Jan 29 11:20:09 wazd: about the lack of IT portal Jan 29 11:20:29 RST38h: yep Jan 29 11:20:44 timeless: that's quite a large chat... Jan 29 11:20:45 morning all Jan 29 11:20:55 wazd: In fact, there was some decent portal made by SpB guys, but it was more like a hobby. Not sure if it still exists Jan 29 11:21:06 oh for crying f*king out loud Jan 29 11:21:26 it is -so- easy to find differences in packages when the previous package is deleted Jan 29 11:21:50 jaffa: yeah, i know Jan 29 11:21:59 i'm trying to break chat's error reporting Jan 29 11:22:09 X-Fade: is the previous pre-alpha archived anywhere? Jan 29 11:22:37 Stskeeps: presuming the content changed table and debian/changelog are useless? Jan 29 11:23:03 Jaffa: it is useless if you want to patch on your source trees Jan 29 11:23:18 Stskeeps: Let me find out ;) Jan 29 11:23:20 RST38h: pdanes.ru? Jan 29 11:23:25 and the fact maemo SW started not using their SVN Jan 29 11:23:26 pdanews.ru Jan 29 11:23:39 which was good and nice for pickup of source changes on Jan 29 11:23:42 Stskeeps: true Jan 29 11:23:45 wazd: naah, wait... Jan 29 11:24:11 wazd: toster.ru Jan 29 11:25:00 RST38h: never heard bout it) Jan 29 11:28:08 wazd: It has not been updated for years. Jan 29 11:28:24 * Stskeeps notes to himself he will be doing a load of cursing during today. Jan 29 11:39:17 Stskeeps: hmm? Jan 29 11:44:34 suihkulokki: upstart changes file / xsession start of different hildon services :P Jan 29 11:44:56 oh, they put upstart out Jan 29 11:44:58 which is slightly more sane than the diablo way of doing things Jan 29 11:45:06 yeah, pre-alpha2 sdk Jan 29 11:45:20 url? Jan 29 11:45:38 http://maemo.org/news/announcements/07a262bcedec11ddabdc07d2d12051a151a1/ Jan 29 11:48:46 oh good open dsme Jan 29 11:49:44 lardman: yes, but we don't have wlan-cal or stlc45xx-cal that works with that DSME, i believe Jan 29 11:50:56 they work with the old version though? Jan 29 11:51:07 yeah Jan 29 11:51:32 what does wlan-cal do? load the firmware? Jan 29 11:51:46 calibrates wlan chip for regulatory purposes from CAL area Jan 29 11:52:05 ah, ok, so has the cal area changed, or the interface between the *-cal and dsme? Jan 29 11:53:06 dsme no longer deals with CAL in fremantle Jan 29 11:53:08 AFAIK Jan 29 11:53:10 anyway Jan 29 11:53:22 in DSME there's a test program that shows us how to make our own hald-addon-bme, i think Jan 29 11:54:51 as it shows the protocol for BME Jan 29 11:55:06 ah, that's useful Jan 29 11:55:15 I see what you mean about CAL: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20465 Jan 29 11:56:38 lol @ commit message: https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/dsme/trunk/?root=dsm Jan 29 11:57:31 looks like with this SDK all the systems guys hit a motherlode =) Jan 29 11:57:52 motherlode Jan 29 11:57:53 ? Jan 29 11:59:12 * Stskeeps compiles more recent GTK Jan 29 11:59:21 Sts: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mother_lode Jan 29 11:59:24 big ore seam Jan 29 11:59:31 (courtesey of Google) Jan 29 12:02:25 qgil: glad to see pre-alpha2 out :) already grabbing things from it Jan 29 12:02:50 Stskeeps: :) and you will get the pre-alpha 1 sources back Jan 29 12:03:07 hehe, yeah, it wouldn't a problem normally but libhildon for example is no longer updated in stage.maemo.org SVN Jan 29 12:03:23 so we can't "easily" grab patches :) Jan 29 12:03:28 qgil: Always nice to see a question come back in a circular motion ;) Jan 29 12:03:40 Stskeeps: I guess the will move to git? Jan 29 12:03:46 fwiw, i have a cache of the debs from pre alpha 1 Jan 29 12:03:46 yeah, it's a bit of a weird time - wait a bit and we will be fine Jan 29 12:03:49 X-Fade: probably yeah Jan 29 12:04:15 qgil: hehe, i can understand if you want to keep libhildon atttention low at the moment, as it often implies how UI will look :) Jan 29 12:04:51 in a normal world UIs shouldn't be that important, but these days are not normal in this industry Jan 29 12:04:55 yeah Jan 29 12:07:03 Stskeeps: Do you still have problems checking out dsme from svn? Jan 29 12:07:09 X-Fade: nop, it's all good now :) Jan 29 12:07:28 Stskeeps: Yeah, so it was probably because the cron job didn't run yet. Jan 29 12:08:57 qgil: side note, we're generating the list of firmware image contents at the moment, but we're rather hesistant to include anything above hardware interfacing, because we have no idea how Fremantle will look with regards to software etc just yet and would just like to take that discussion when it comes - is it OK that we send a list of the HW interfacing parts and have a second list when time comes, as those are the most important to have as soon as ... Jan 29 12:09:03 ... possible? Jan 29 12:10:32 Stskeeps: now you can make the complete list corresponding to Diablo, and when Fremantle is totally out you can come up with anohter one for Fremantle Jan 29 12:10:48 what the legal guys don't want is to discuss component by component in scattered conversations Jan 29 12:11:33 qgil: *nod* alright Jan 29 12:13:15 is there a way for an application to find out whether using hildonwindow (along with its hildon_window_set_menu()) makes sense (read: if mb-wm is around)? Jan 29 12:13:23 * w00t_ waves at Sts and qgil Jan 29 12:13:25 * Myrtti adds herself to w.m.o/FOSDEM2009 Jan 29 12:14:42 X-Fade: do you know why for the news we are getting URLs like http://maemo.org/news/announcements/0eb8fdfeedec11ddb28e1b3c4d7b308a308a/ by default instead of having a human readable default even if leaving that field in blank¿? Jan 29 12:15:14 qgil: No, I noticed it too. Will find out what causes that. Jan 29 12:15:24 and about the comments at http://maemo.org/news/announcements/0eb8fdfeedec11ddb28e1b3c4d7b308a308a/ I'm not sure whether we should go and explain why we didn't select what we didn't select... Jan 29 12:15:45 qgil: Btw I did some tweaks to fix your split personality issue ;) Jan 29 12:16:23 thanks doc Jan 29 12:17:21 suihkulokki spotted upstart http://repository.maemo.org/pool/fremantle/free/u/upstart/ Jan 29 12:21:10 Heh, garage project: e^(j pi)+1=0 Jan 29 12:22:40 "shortcut" name for a project called Euler? Jan 29 12:23:14 lardman: No ejpi it seems. Jan 29 12:24:07 lardman: But yeah. Euler's identity.. Jan 29 12:24:29 :) Jan 29 12:24:49 Wikipedia FTW! :) Jan 29 12:27:15 first impressions about pre-alpha 2 and Fremantle Stars announced? Jan 29 12:27:56 Hello qgil Jan 29 12:28:10 good choices on fremantle stars, i guess maemo mapper would conflict a bit with existing map application(s). pre-alpha 2: business as usual, things to read through, patch, and get to compile :P Jan 29 12:28:57 * Stskeeps puts on Pi soundtrack and gets at it. Jan 29 12:30:53 w00000t i are a maemo star :D Jan 29 12:31:02 i can has stars please Jan 29 12:31:40 * Stskeeps puts a golden star on lcuk's forehead Jan 29 12:31:50 can I have a pink one, plz? Jan 29 12:31:50 hehe Jan 29 12:31:54 how dramatically location framework is going to change in Fremantle? Jan 29 12:32:07 pink is only available in invisible Jan 29 12:32:34 sampo: dramatically Jan 29 12:32:34 tracy was wondering why ppl were sayin stuff to me today Jan 29 12:32:46 hello qgil :) heard you last night on twit :) Jan 29 12:32:56 hi lcuk Jan 29 12:33:02 qgil: ok :) Jan 29 12:33:12 lcuk: oh, but that's just fine, I'm invisible myself Jan 29 12:33:24 Myrtti: digital spirit? Jan 29 12:33:25 :P Jan 29 12:33:48 digital invisible pink unicorn Jan 29 12:33:51 not at all myrtti Jan 29 12:33:53 or a pegasos. Jan 29 12:33:57 Djangopony. Jan 29 12:34:11 though I know not one word of django Jan 29 12:36:01 qgil, since all this is announced now and it says we can has hardware :D is it in the post ? :D Jan 29 12:37:53 at least having fbreader in as a star means for certain i dont need to worry about the book stuff myself for now. Jan 29 12:43:13 lcuk: if you notice, I never talk publicly about hardware, leave alone about unreleased hardware Jan 29 13:01:46 lol qgil, yeah we heard last night :P Jan 29 13:02:10 i was reading from the maemo stars announcement though Jan 29 13:03:24 lcuk: Early access, doesn't specify what early is.. Jan 29 13:03:40 i know :P Jan 29 13:03:48 lcuk: I'm sure it is not early enough for you and me ;) Jan 29 13:04:02 good morning, everyone Jan 29 13:04:22 though to be honest, im not that worried - i know now i have enough pure speed on this hardware, its gonne flyyyyyyy on the new stuff Jan 29 13:04:59 pixbuf-random.c:156: warning: pointer targets in passing argument 1 of 'assault' differ in signedness Jan 29 13:05:08 * Stskeeps ponders idly what assault is :> Jan 29 13:05:42 Stskeeps, i had loads of those signedness errors with liqbase when building for x86 Jan 29 13:05:53 lcuk: yeah, it's fine - i'm just wondering what assault does :> Jan 29 13:06:39 X-Fade: doesn't specify what hardware either. Juha has a BeagleBoard in his desk... mmmm Jan 29 13:06:57 * Stskeeps should really play more with the two beagles in his office Jan 29 13:08:16 are ints not the same type on ARM/x86 then? Jan 29 13:08:24 one is signed by default, one unsigned Jan 29 13:08:35 lardman: gcc3 vs gcc4 Jan 29 13:08:37 gcc4 is more picky Jan 29 13:08:43 right Jan 29 13:09:02 lardman, it was more to do with compiler differences Jan 29 13:09:11 in gcc4 it was more picky Jan 29 13:09:14 lol Jan 29 13:09:22 * lcuk should read up Jan 29 13:09:29 i was busy reading what an assault it Jan 29 13:09:45 it appears to make hundreds/thousands of image tests on various types of images loadable by the pixbuf Jan 29 13:09:51 qgil: But does that have gps, acceleration sensors and a touch screen? :D Jan 29 13:09:51 all different header types Jan 29 13:10:09 qgil: I'm sure that lcuk will need all those :) Jan 29 13:10:38 touch screen == required Jan 29 13:10:49 the other stuff will be fun to play with but not required Jan 29 13:11:05 bbl Jan 29 13:11:26 i wouldv gotten myself a beagle but im not a deep down installer and i dont know how to rootstrap linux :$ Jan 29 13:12:43 lcuk: Do you still do some clutter testing? Jan 29 13:13:31 not at this point, i split liqbase into 2 halves though. clutter knows *nothing* about how to draw lines, so its not clutter knowledge i need, its opengl itself Jan 29 13:13:47 how much did ya paid for the beagle board? Jan 29 13:17:56 right, glad to see that the release went out smoothly, the next one should bring a lot of the stuff you are waiting for Jan 29 13:17:59 bye! Jan 29 13:23:01 Hope I'll be fricking stunned with M5 UI coolness :) Jan 29 13:24:20 wazd_hp: There were some funky experimental ui's displayed at the summit. Jan 29 13:24:39 Although they had 'THIS IS NOT FREMANTLE' displayed on top of them ;) Jan 29 13:24:57 I only saw lack of UI there :) Jan 29 13:25:00 * lcuk keeps playing with funky uis as well :) Jan 29 13:25:11 Like only title and thats all :) Jan 29 13:26:44 X-Fade, do you know anything about fbreader and whether any of the other OSes have kinetic scrolling (apart from the java version for iphone) Jan 29 13:30:19 lcuk: does real book has kinetic scrolling?) Jan 29 13:31:59 lcuk: I have no idea. Jan 29 13:32:23 Book is not a list, kinetic scrolling is useless with it Jan 29 13:32:35 wazd: Dynamic page flipping :) Jan 29 13:32:41 wazd, continous scrolling however isnt Jan 29 13:32:51 and kinetic is just the understandable description thereof Jan 29 13:33:01 The best way is to tap the screen to switch the page Jan 29 13:33:26 no, because on my 810 i keep catching it Jan 29 13:33:38 its simply a bit too slow at updating on 810 Jan 29 13:33:59 lcuk: it's too hard to setup the speed properly Jan 29 13:34:09 the user should be able to choose his movemet method Jan 29 13:34:10 lcuk: like movie credits Jan 29 13:34:13 wazd, of course not Jan 29 13:34:24 ive used continous scrolling for years in numerous pdas Jan 29 13:35:04 brb work Jan 29 13:35:10 lcuk: hmmm... Is there a problem with different line length? Jan 29 13:36:03 lcuk: With a forward facing camera, you could keep track of the eyes.. Jan 29 13:36:23 lcuk: So you can see if the person is still reading and thus needs to keep scrolling.. Jan 29 13:38:22 X-Fade: and check reader's face, is he interested or not)) Jan 29 13:38:33 X-Fade: if not - load different book :) Jan 29 13:39:47 Does anybody know when yesterday's FLOSS podcast will be available for download? Jan 29 13:45:24 wazd: Looking at the other release dates... On saturday? Jan 29 14:06:00 Stskeeps: ping? Jan 29 14:13:45 X-Fade: pong Jan 29 14:14:07 need a nice todo-list application? http://wiki.github.com/herzi/classify Jan 29 14:14:15 Stskeeps: Marcell uploaded prealpha1 again.. Just for you ;) Jan 29 14:14:18 Stskeeps: http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo5.0prealpha1/free/ Jan 29 14:14:24 X-Fade: ta :) Jan 29 14:15:00 can it stay there? it's a lot to download for now :) when next one comes out i'm happy to let alpha1 go :P Jan 29 14:15:02 The idea is now to keep the 2 most recent version around... Jan 29 14:15:04 yeah Jan 29 14:17:03 herzi: needs screenshots ;-) Jan 29 14:17:16 Jaffa: reload Jan 29 14:17:17 :-) Jan 29 14:17:48 herzi: none that I can see :-( Jan 29 14:18:11 Jaffa: http://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/mer-classify.png ;) Jan 29 14:18:17 Jaffa: sorry, clicked on preview, not update Jan 29 14:18:21 not it's there Jan 29 14:18:25 *now Jan 29 14:19:12 cool Jan 29 14:40:27 Is it interesting to talk bout nokia "app store" concept?) Jan 29 14:40:51 I have some ideas bout it but don't know if it's interesting Jan 29 14:41:05 a blog post can always work i guess :P Jan 29 14:41:32 wazd: Sure, I have been meaning to start a blog post about our previous discussion here ;) Jan 29 14:47:33 w00! almost friday Jan 29 14:48:26 and is that a new pre-alpha to play with? Jan 29 14:48:33 yeah Jan 29 14:48:36 and DSME Jan 29 14:48:45 open source DSME? Jan 29 14:48:50 yeah Jan 29 14:48:58 cool Jan 29 14:49:02 but no OHM? Jan 29 14:49:10 not yet Jan 29 14:49:49 i wonder if they fixed https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3997 in hildon-desktop because: dbus-glib 0.74-0 -> osso70.78-0maemo1 , and no upgrade in hildon-desktop Jan 29 14:49:53 which means HD will crash instantly Jan 29 14:50:26 i wonder if someone can check that in the pre-alpha2 if HD even works :> Jan 29 14:51:14 if only there was another mer dev who is well rested and just got home from work... Jan 29 14:51:16 :) Jan 29 14:51:19 I'll look Jan 29 14:51:46 i've upgraded GTK and libhildon in progress Jan 29 14:52:28 anything interesting? Jan 29 14:53:03 not that much, new widgets i think Jan 29 14:53:15 ah, neat Jan 29 15:04:13 so the new vid of the pandora hardware looks pretty nice :) Jan 29 15:04:30 is it a plastic casing of a devel board? ;) Jan 29 15:05:03 it's the FDM prototype case with the production board if I understand correctly Jan 29 15:09:54 whoa Jan 29 15:10:04 Pandora looks super-oldskool Jan 29 15:10:35 80s? Jan 29 15:11:02 well, that's how future looked in 80's xD Jan 29 15:11:04 Stskeeps: http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo5.0prealpha1/ Jan 29 15:11:18 qgil: yup, X-fade told me just before :) Jan 29 15:11:23 thanks! Jan 29 15:11:37 what we'll probably do is to keep the last 2 unstables Jan 29 15:11:49 e.g. delete pre-alpha when the next unstable comes Jan 29 15:11:51 yeah Jan 29 15:11:53 makes sense Jan 29 15:12:14 ok then, back to family shift Jan 29 15:12:16 yeah, the pandora looks really retro-futuristic. I love it :) Jan 29 15:13:59 Anyone every had trouble installing Easy Debian? Jan 29 15:14:23 btw it was a real surprise for me to know that aluminium casings costs bout 20-30$ more that plastic ones Jan 29 15:14:53 yay, finally got sqlite3 code sorted Jan 29 15:15:17 \o/ lardman, what was the problem with the init? you said something like "i think i see it now" Jan 29 15:15:38 and did the example opening code i showed you highlight the problem Jan 29 15:16:21 yeah, a couple of things - calling the error fn when the db didn't exist was one problem, plus the fact that the sqlite3 fns return different things - not just the error codes that the sqlite3_err fn understands Jan 29 15:16:47 lcuk: no, I had pretty much the same, but I just borrowed some code from maemo-mapper poi.c, which did the job with extra error checking Jan 29 15:16:49 yeah its a bit odd Jan 29 15:17:27 omg, sonic 3d! I had it for my sega!) Jan 29 15:17:34 I actually think the error wasn't an error at all, just the number->error function being passed the wrong value (by me) and making me think something was wrong Jan 29 15:18:10 ahhh - so you werent tracking the return value of the _open() function Jan 29 15:18:40 I was, that was fine, it was when I tried to create the first table that the problem happened Jan 29 15:41:57 andre__: happen to have pre-alpha2 installed yet? Jan 29 15:42:11 nope Jan 29 15:42:13 k Jan 29 15:42:17 is it public? Jan 29 15:42:19 yup Jan 29 15:42:26 got released today Jan 29 15:42:36 uh. yay. something to install tonight :) Jan 29 15:42:40 crazy question when you do.. see if the hildon UI even wants to start Jan 29 15:43:28 if it doesn't, it's because https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3997 happened :) Jan 29 15:43:33 hehe Jan 29 15:43:35 (the preliminary thing i was speaking about) Jan 29 15:43:49 because as i thought, they -would- upgrade to 0.78 :P Jan 29 15:44:45 hehe. Jan 29 15:44:54 * Stskeeps is patching away today Jan 29 15:45:08 well, currently i'm reading diffs (bug 3846) and tweaking some scripts to make some annoying wontfix internal discussions less time-consuming by having some generic copy&paste comments for my dear friends at nokia :-P Jan 29 15:45:22 hehe Jan 29 15:45:43 too many debates coming up too often... :) Jan 29 15:45:56 if bugs.maemo.org can be hell at times i can't imagine how the internal ones are.. Jan 29 15:46:00 :P Jan 29 15:46:19 oh well. if you're a developer you try to minimize the income of new work. :-D Jan 29 15:47:02 and wontfix is only one click away. way too easy. it should require at least a 30000 words comment! :-P Jan 29 15:47:04 Jan 29 15:47:37 "i told you so", "it WORKSFORME, and so be it!", etc? ;P Jan 29 15:48:17 well. some people also have a strange definition of what they call "FIXED" too... :-/ Jan 29 15:50:43 with mer we're trying to make a list of what things could be useful to ask nokia if we can distribute from maemo.org.. it's worse than writing a christmas list Jan 29 15:54:28 I maded you a bug report but I eated it Jan 29 15:56:22 sudo make me a sandwich Jan 29 16:04:09 all that's old is new again: Local Networking over Coax is back :) Jan 29 17:28:46 so NIT loads the maemo kernel before bootmenu, right? Does mer then roll on using this same kernel or does it kexec/something its own kernel? Jan 29 17:30:10 it uses the same kernel right now Jan 29 17:30:19 potentially we could be using kexec later Jan 29 17:35:47 Ah, Pandora. . . . Jan 29 17:37:22 GeneralAntilles, it lives :) Jan 29 17:38:48 johnx, it's funny to watch people become disillusioned one after another. Jan 29 17:38:56 Like you didn't expect it right from the start. Jan 29 17:39:45 the people making the most noise about delays seem to be mostly the people who bought it on an impulse the day it made slashdot Jan 29 17:40:19 noise goes down proportional to how long they were waiting *before* preorders :) Jan 29 17:40:20 qwerty12: can you verify the zImage kernel runs tabletinit? i'm honestly not sure it does Jan 29 17:40:29 hi. how can i check from command line or python if the headphone is connected? Jan 29 17:40:35 i made some tests earlier and it ran /sbin/init i think Jan 29 17:41:27 Stskeeps, eurgh. The cmdline says init=/sbin/tabletinit or similar, I'd bet my right ball on it. But I'm feeling dead atm so I really can't be bothered to test anything atm Jan 29 17:41:47 qwerty12: it's fine Jan 29 17:42:34 kup, might this be helpful? http://kagumedia.com/projects/kagu/browser/trunk/src/kagu/maemo.py Jan 29 17:43:26 i'll look at it. thx johnx Jan 29 17:44:36 johnx: that's what i needed Jan 29 17:44:38 :) Jan 29 17:44:58 kup, I googled: maemo dbus headphone connected :) Jan 29 17:49:55 qwerty12: catching up on the last half years homework? ;) Jan 29 17:50:58 Stskeeps, nah, just feeling shitty after getting back from central london :P Jan 29 17:51:19 qwerty12: ah, yeah, the air must be fierce ;) Jan 29 17:57:00 What's the current favourite email client on the Nokia? I think I've got my spam cut out enough to actually find it useful :-) Jan 29 17:57:09 * Stskeeps likes claws Jan 29 17:58:07 * johnx uses modest but not everyone likes it *looks above him* Jan 29 17:58:56 * Stskeeps pokes gtk build with a stick Jan 29 17:59:04 hasnt mutt been ported yet? (: Jan 29 17:59:07 gtk docs.. horrible Jan 29 17:59:33 fireun, almost certainly Jan 29 17:59:42 and there's alpine too Jan 29 17:59:43 fireun, http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23544 Jan 29 18:00:49 ooh, mutt. That would be perfect! Jan 29 18:00:51 Thank you! Jan 29 18:01:12 crazy people with their hardware keyboards :P Jan 29 18:01:29 packages.debian.org for maemo and mer would be nice... Jan 29 18:01:51 dob, it's planned. Jan 29 18:02:07 GeneralAntilles: using the same software? Jan 29 18:02:18 dob, haven't gotten that far you. Jan 29 18:02:20 s/you/yet/ Jan 29 18:02:21 GeneralAntilles meant: dob, haven't gotten that far yet. Jan 29 18:04:03 * lcuk whacks johnx on the head with an ibm model m Jan 29 18:04:59 * johnx stares at lcuk, continues tapping away at his 'microsoft basic keyboard' Jan 29 18:05:42 though if it was a real model m that should have read 'johnx dies from blunt force trauma' Jan 29 18:05:54 yeah was just typing similar Jan 29 18:06:01 i had a model m for many years Jan 29 18:06:25 I worked in tech support and got used to using anything that was in front of me at the time Jan 29 18:06:39 i got it from a 286, it was only when i got a computer where i couldnt fit the old DIN->ps2 converter that i tried to destroy it Jan 29 18:06:51 (the dent in the concrete reminded me every day) Jan 29 18:07:14 johnx, im a left hander and have to get used to using mice normally Jan 29 18:07:47 lcuk, I used mice left handed all the time, though admittedly I was slower at it Jan 29 18:07:54 there was one guy who used inverted mouse buttons (also a leftie, but wanted to prove the point). my middle finger is left mouse button Jan 29 18:08:05 timeless: why on earth would translation strings go from "Control panel" (sane) to "!!Settings" Jan 29 18:08:15 what really trips me up is when left handed people leave their buttons setup 'right handed style' Jan 29 18:08:25 like me :) Jan 29 18:08:51 though i usually rest both fingers on left mouse button location Jan 29 18:09:18 there was another guy who used a mouse twisted round - ie wire and buttons nearest him Jan 29 18:09:30 freaked the fck out of anyone who saw him Jan 29 18:10:45 the weirdest one was I had a friend who was killer at FPS games, but could only play well using a trackball Jan 29 18:10:52 'Fremantle Clock UI Specification' Jan 29 18:11:01 people write specifications for clocks? scary Jan 29 18:11:07 yes Jan 29 18:11:16 the clock in maemo currently is very poor Jan 29 18:11:19 1. it should show the time. 2. hours before minutes. Jan 29 18:12:13 12/24hour, show minutes? seconds?, can you change it directly, what about alarms ... Jan 29 18:12:18 no Jan 29 18:12:55 I would be awesome at writing specs Jan 29 18:13:49 i cant wait to be able to story board the whole process :) Jan 29 18:14:22 didn't i explain that earlier? Jan 29 18:14:27 we don't recycle translations Jan 29 18:14:31 we recycle translators Jan 29 18:14:36 and specifications Jan 29 18:14:43 which means any translation we paid ofr Jan 29 18:14:45 we discard Jan 29 18:14:51 and then pay the same person to translate it again Jan 29 18:15:00 but in the interim, at project restart, you get !!stuff again Jan 29 18:15:08 but probably more importantly Jan 29 18:15:11 hmmm...sounds nice and cushy :) Jan 29 18:15:13 it means that the old string 'control panel' Jan 29 18:15:21 has been replaced by a new intended string 'settings' Jan 29 18:15:31 timeless: lovely Jan 29 18:15:34 which means it will have to be retranslated as 'settings' for the languages Jan 29 18:15:40 the better question is... Jan 29 18:15:44 why didn't the id change Jan 29 18:15:50 since clearly the meaning quasi-changed Jan 29 18:16:05 most localizers would complain if you change the meaning w/o changing the id Jan 29 18:16:17 ours just take our money and don't complain :) Jan 29 18:16:18 lcuk, I learned how to fly left-handed. Jan 29 18:16:35 u can fly? Jan 29 18:16:35 johnx: yeah, my view is cushy Jan 29 18:16:38 johnx, trackball FPS used to me. ;) Jan 29 18:16:47 lcuk, *flight sims*. ;) Jan 29 18:16:54 lcuk, but I can fly with my left or right hand. Jan 29 18:17:12 :D heh Jan 29 18:17:33 * lcuk hasnt been given a star since primary school Jan 29 18:17:41 +# There is not enough battery left on the device to install Maemo update. There has to be at least 50% of power left. Jan 29 18:17:44 neat Jan 29 18:18:12 So, what, 10 minute battery life? ;) Jan 29 18:18:20 Assuming an install takes about 5 minutes Jan 29 18:18:32 I guess they're also running OpenGL demos during? Jan 29 18:19:07 so there's no real curl for diablo? :/ Jan 29 18:19:10 why? console mode installation required Jan 29 18:19:14 GeneralAntilles, think big SSU, not flash :P Jan 29 18:19:43 gotta go help with tea, bbl Jan 29 18:22:25 johnx, sorry, I'm being facetious. ;) Jan 29 18:22:45 dob, is wget not workable? Jan 29 18:24:17 yeah, i see it Jan 29 18:24:20 whenever I see 'moblin' I keep thinking 'mobile goblin.' I wonder if they really thought that name through... Jan 29 18:24:21 oops, wrong window Jan 29 18:25:12 GeneralAntilles: hmm, it might just work with wget afterall :) Jan 29 18:29:26 anyone in here using adeona? Jan 29 18:31:28 heh, that's a funny use of DHT's Jan 29 18:32:56 is there some code snippet that creates a toolbar using gtkuimanager and that uses named icons (just like all the other nokia apps on the device)? Jan 29 18:41:53 johnx: upgrading cut-n-paste btw Jan 29 18:41:57 to 100% Jan 29 18:42:02 ah, great! Jan 29 18:42:28 another one of those nokia init scripts that boils down to a one liner Jan 29 18:42:45 did you see upstart source package in pre-alpha2? Jan 29 18:42:49 they use Xsession now :) Jan 29 18:42:53 (sui did it) Jan 29 18:42:57 ah! I didn't even look for it Jan 29 18:42:58 neat Jan 29 18:44:25 i tested x86 vm earlier and it didn't seem to do the cursor detection in first-boot-wizard atleast btw Jan 29 18:44:58 heh...that would be because I completely forgot about first boot wizard when doing cursor detection :) Jan 29 18:45:24 well then :) Jan 29 18:45:31 on my todo :) Jan 29 18:45:58 i won't be able to make it with the kernel + jffs so we scrap that for next release Jan 29 18:46:10 (going to gf's masters thesis defense tomorrow and my tablet victim is at work) Jan 29 18:49:01 Stskeeps, johnx did you see b-man's ubuntuish rescue screen, i thought it looked really nice and chunky Jan 29 18:49:38 lcuk: nop did not Jan 29 18:49:49 but i have to ask, why do these rescue screens assume no touch? Jan 29 18:49:55 is it simply not available? Jan 29 18:49:56 lcuk: way too early in the process Jan 29 18:50:03 xsp not available? Jan 29 18:50:03 i really dont want to have to link with tslib :P Jan 29 18:50:12 not even X Jan 29 18:50:19 the x in xsp is x :P Jan 29 18:50:26 can anyone tell me the kb shortcut to change desktops? Jan 29 18:50:32 http://www.bman.maemobox.org/projects/ubuntu-n8x0/Ubuntu-rescue-menu.jpg Jan 29 18:50:36 my taskbar has locked up Jan 29 18:50:55 lcuk: heh, self made or? Jan 29 18:50:57 :( lardman Jan 29 18:51:05 Stskeeps, its bmans not mine Jan 29 18:51:19 lcuk: yeah, just wondering if its made by him or not :) Jan 29 18:51:19 he posted it late on last night when noone was around Jan 29 18:51:20 yeah well, I can still work, just need to go to a different desktop as that's where my code is Jan 29 18:51:21 lardman, which OS or distro? Jan 29 18:51:25 ubuntu Jan 29 18:51:44 maybe ctrl+alt+right Jan 29 18:51:46 gnome desktop Jan 29 18:51:51 brb tea ready Jan 29 18:51:59 johnx: good call, thanks Jan 29 18:54:35 johnx: darken made a patch for -evdev that makes Fn keys work on tablet. objections against including? Jan 29 18:55:03 not at all Jan 29 18:55:10 is that the right place to fix it longterm though? Jan 29 18:57:42 not at all Jan 29 18:58:17 :) Jan 29 18:58:39 the core problem is that the driver creates events outside the normal range, right? Jan 29 18:59:39 yes Jan 29 18:59:46 http://www.bman.maemobox.org/projects/ubuntu-n8x0/Ubuntu-rescue-menu.jpg that slightly reminds me something) Jan 29 19:02:22 http://n800.de/viewtopic.php?t=1056 Jan 29 19:04:15 nice to see the skype-with-video-support question gets asked everywhere :) Jan 29 19:17:14 reMoo Jan 29 19:19:37 hey RST38h Jan 29 19:28:27 wazd: the "Reboot" should be lower, it's tying to the icon directly above it more than to the selected item now Jan 29 19:29:20 yep. it should be centered between the button row and the bottom text bit Jan 29 19:48:43 dose any one know how to disable the package manager update checker? Jan 29 19:53:52 b1ackdeath, there's a gconf setting for it. Jan 29 19:54:06 thx Jan 29 19:57:04 hi, any opinions about the list of selected projects to be supported as "Fremantle Stars"? Jan 29 19:57:06 eCoach - Sport & outdoor activities manager FBReader - E-book reader liqbase - Sketch playground Mauku - Microblogger without borders NumptyPhysics - Virtual gravity game OMWeather - Weather forecast widget OSM2Go - OpenStreetMap editor Vagalume - Last.fm application Jan 29 19:57:17 https://maemo.org/news/announcements/0eb8fdfeedec11ddb28e1b3c4d7b308a308a/ Jan 29 19:57:50 one thought: I'm really pleased you're supporting fbreader Jan 29 19:57:56 and liqbase Jan 29 19:58:10 2 compliments from johnx in a row Jan 29 19:58:17 I think I'll save this log ;) Jan 29 19:58:39 hey. you know I love you guys. Otherwise I wouldn't be sticking with you :) Jan 29 19:58:59 definitely, and viceversa Jan 29 19:59:24 for example I rarely talk about Sharp (spit!) because there was nothing redeeming about the way they handled their interactions with the Zaurus community Jan 29 19:59:41 weird, with the https not http I'm asked to log in Jan 29 19:59:48 argh, sorry Jan 29 19:59:53 http://maemo.org/news/announcements/0eb8fdfeedec11ddb28e1b3c4d7b308a308a/ Jan 29 20:00:11 ah, an earthquake, how special Jan 29 20:00:12 (I really hope https behaves one day in Midgard just as it does in bugzilla or garage) Jan 29 20:00:31 Hi, qgil, good show yesterday. :) Jan 29 20:00:33 No Maemo Mapper? Jan 29 20:00:46 see my comment in the announcement Jan 29 20:01:03 and about show heh :) Jan 29 20:01:28 ok, back Jan 29 20:01:30 Only one I don't love on that list is eCoach Jan 29 20:01:39 Mostly because it's highly hardware-dependent Jan 29 20:01:43 and not cheap hardware, either. Jan 29 20:01:59 well, it makes sense without the heart thing as well Jan 29 20:02:03 they are implementing support for more readily available hardware Jan 29 20:02:04 Xournal would have been nice. Jan 29 20:02:27 qgil, any comment on whether the hardware access with come with NDAs? ;) Jan 29 20:02:31 there was a competition for the "sketch" slot Jan 29 20:02:38 As for maemo mapper, I understand your situation, but why not drop the Nokia Maps? :p Jan 29 20:02:53 benson, s/Maps/Map/g ;) Jan 29 20:03:01 some kind of media player Jan 29 20:03:14 GeneralAntilles: the only OMAP3 hardware we could let someone see (leave alone touch or play with) without signing a paper would be the BeagleBoard, I guess Jan 29 20:03:42 bnson, good point and I hope you get an answer when you see what the guys are cooking Jan 29 20:03:50 mavhc: I guess we'll see a pretty cool revamped media player what with midas etc Jan 29 20:04:14 mavhc: Vagalume? Jan 29 20:04:42 The mplayer comment is funny. Jan 29 20:05:01 I'm not sure he realizes how much of the issue is hardware-dependent. Jan 29 20:05:18 mplayer and pidgin have big communities out of Maemo, that's a point I haven't even posted there, now that I think Jan 29 20:06:01 The hacks to get around the atrocious N8x0 hardware wont be required for OMAP3 anyway. Jan 29 20:06:13 as for Pidgin, I'd much rather see rtcomm mature Jan 29 20:06:18 likewise Jan 29 20:06:30 though bring on some location awareness too please Jan 29 20:06:34 An integrated solution is better Jan 29 20:06:48 lardman, Nokia's pushing their own location stuff, I believe. Jan 29 20:06:51 * johnx wonders how hard it will be to make pidging integrate Jan 29 20:06:57 ...with anything Jan 29 20:07:13 GeneralAntilles: fine by me as long as it works ;) Jan 29 20:10:02 we (maemo.org) could try to "use" these 8 projects to define the ideal process for community development e.g. roadmaps and etc in wiki.maemo.org, bugs handled in bugs.maemo.org, good practices in extras unstable/stable... Jan 29 20:10:18 discussion in talk.maemo.org... Jan 29 20:10:46 GetInvolved pages to convert users into contributors... Jan 29 20:10:47 benson, "why not drop the Nokia Maps" <- eh? You sound like you're saying there is or will be nokia maps for maemo? Jan 29 20:11:23 ShadowJK, Maps for S60 and Wayfinder for Maemo are often confused. Jan 29 20:11:34 Ah. Jan 29 20:12:00 * timeless sighs Jan 29 20:12:03 qgil, sounds reasonable. Jan 29 20:12:07 Especially by people who use neither. ;) Jan 29 20:12:11 tho i missed the start Jan 29 20:12:18 qgil, did you watch the video stream from the show. A number of Maemo bugs were featured rather prominently. :( Jan 29 20:12:22 ShadowJK, especially since the app calls itself 'Map' in Maemo4, instead of wayfinder :) Jan 29 20:12:26 i just tried to use "Windows Search" Jan 29 20:12:37 it failed... it couldn't find a message i had never received Jan 29 20:12:40 * timeless blames sp3000 Jan 29 20:12:49 not the video stream, the chat only - I didn't want to stress the bandwith at home Jan 29 20:13:07 qgil, he had LCARS on the N800 he was demoing. Jan 29 20:13:24 I prefer Maps because it seems to have better maps and more POI, but wayfinder runs on the device with the bigger screen.. :( Jan 29 20:13:26 he mentioned having lcars a couple of tijmes Jan 29 20:13:32 but yeah, there were a couple of bugs Jan 29 20:13:32 I saw the Federation logo come up as he booted it and laughed out loud. Jan 29 20:13:33 qgil, the 800 on show worked nicely, but a few times it got over stimulated and showed off things which we would rather not happen Jan 29 20:13:38 except i wasn't familiar w/ all of his bugs Jan 29 20:13:51 btw, if you have your 'most preferred' bugs and you want to know whether they can be reproduced in Fremantle, put me in CC Jan 29 20:14:02 Is this video available anywhere? Jan 29 20:14:07 i'd hope so Jan 29 20:14:11 but i haven't looked yet Jan 29 20:14:17 http://twit.cachefly.net/odtv/0128-floss54.mp4 Jan 29 20:14:37 gan: we need an annotation service so you can timestamp and comment about the bugs :) Jan 29 20:14:38 ah, cool. I'll look at it once I recover some sleeping hours Jan 29 20:15:09 http://wiki.twit.tv/wiki/FLOSS_Weekly_54 is the wiki page for that episode Jan 29 20:15:24 https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3678 https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3659 Jan 29 20:15:45 hmm...pidgin should be able to integrate nicely with lots of things. wonder why no one has bothered... Jan 29 20:16:10 it's a bit clunky and kills the battery? Jan 29 20:16:17 mavhc: intresting, I didn't get any of the 3 questions from the audience in that wiki pag Jan 29 20:16:18 e Jan 29 20:16:44 lardman, ah, didn't know about the battery issue Jan 29 20:20:18 Well, #1 and #3 were answered in a round about way. Jan 29 20:20:23 johnx: yeah, they may have fixed it, I;ve no idea - it didn't offer any more than the built in (other than location abilities) so I came back Jan 29 20:20:58 lardman, these days I think more and more from a starting-from-scratch Mer perspective Jan 29 20:22:21 perhaps, I like integrated though Jan 29 20:22:46 I also don't think of Mer like that, but as a bridge to Fremantle Jan 29 20:23:01 but then I'm probably alone in that :) Jan 29 20:23:46 it looks dead simple to 'integrate' pidgin just as much as rtcomm is integrated Jan 29 20:24:03 the deciding factor will be if parts of rtcomm/chat are still closed source Jan 29 20:24:05 fine by me Jan 29 20:24:28 the integration bit, not the closed bit that is :) Jan 29 20:24:44 and yes, mer is a bridge to fremantle for lots of devices :) Jan 29 20:30:24 lardman, you don't get to dodge responsibility today. :P Jan 29 20:31:01 for what? Jan 29 20:31:07 * johnx fails to achieve victory Jan 29 20:31:56 lardman, accept the invite. Jan 29 20:32:03 hey Tim Jan 29 20:32:11 GeneralAntilles: not seen anything yet Jan 29 20:32:11 Hey, guys. Jan 29 20:32:33 ah, it appears out there, all becomes clear :) Jan 29 20:33:15 ~seen meizirkki Jan 29 20:33:18 meizirkki was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 3d 3h 26m 12s ago, saying: 'Stskeeps: ok'. Jan 29 20:34:25 Stskeeps, yes, mismatched passwords are checked, auto-swap enable doesn't work - i left dummy code in from testing :) Jan 29 20:35:16 johnx: even when second password = ""? Jan 29 20:36:00 if [ $password1 != $password2 ] ; then ... Jan 29 20:36:50 johnx: ah, so it dies :P Jan 29 20:37:15 if [ != ]; then ..? :P Jan 29 20:37:29 then no soup for you, try again Jan 29 20:37:59 hehe Jan 29 20:38:23 http://pastebin.ca/1322106 Jan 29 20:38:52 it's possible I'm being dumb of course, but I don't see how you would sneak by that check short of a shell escape :) Jan 29 20:39:12 though...I really need to make sure you can't sneak by it even with a shell escape... Jan 29 20:39:23 all right, uplink seems to be back online Jan 29 20:44:00 johnx: just to keep track, what else is on your TODO? Jan 29 20:44:57 it's all first-boot-wizard for feb1st, then zaurus and hildon-desktop stuff. Jan 29 20:45:18 alright Jan 29 20:45:48 did we work on the incompatible bootmenu thing or how was it? Jan 29 20:46:00 ah, right, that too Jan 29 20:46:06 k Jan 29 20:46:21 think i can take that quickly since gf is studying for her defense anyway Jan 29 20:46:22 we going to go with jaws for that or the plain one wazd did? :) Jan 29 20:46:27 hehe Jan 29 20:46:48 i'm not sure if the shark picture is "free" or not :) Jan 29 20:47:07 wazd: prod Jan 29 20:47:18 GeneralAntilles: "I'm quite certain Elephanta was going to come with an OMAP3 device at the end of last year" - be less certain ;) Jan 29 20:47:35 Sith Lord! :P Jan 29 20:49:13 There weren't any OMAP3 production devices at the end of last year, were there? Jan 29 20:49:21 johnx: i should really bookmark http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/search?q=wazd+http Jan 29 20:49:25 Jaffa: beagleboards? :P Jan 29 20:49:30 johnx, what's the "first-boot-wizard?" Jan 29 20:49:36 Jaffa, Archos 5 shipped way back last summer. Jan 29 20:49:44 daperl: it is the thing that you see first time you turn on the device Jan 29 20:49:47 daperl, mer thing for doing basic config on the first boot Jan 29 20:50:07 daperl, same idea as the one you see on your n800 when it turns on, but mer has a better wallpaper Jan 29 20:50:22 johnx: http://s41.radikal.ru/i092/0901/15/3e6113653236.jpg <- this is really classic.. Jan 29 20:50:38 Stskeeps, ahaha, yeah I'll have to bookmark that too Jan 29 20:50:53 it's a great pic because it takes a second to figure out what's happening :D Jan 29 20:50:55 Sts: it absolutely requires the tentacles Jan 29 20:51:30 RST38h, if you can do a photochop with a picture of tentacles that is legal to redistribute I think we can work something out :) Jan 29 20:51:41 GeneralAntilles: What chip does the Archos 5 use? Jan 29 20:52:10 Jaffa_, OMAP3430 Jan 29 20:52:14 ES2.1, I think Jan 29 20:52:29 I'm a bit surprised that they shipped it with such earlier silicon Jan 29 20:52:31 Buggy Jan 29 20:52:33 johnx: Are pictures of tentacles illegal to distribute now? =) Jan 29 20:52:35 Ah, wow. After the number of rev.s the Beagleboards went through over a number of months, I'm ... snap. Jan 29 20:53:10 RST38h, well, that depends on what else is in the pic, doesn't it? but what I really meant was copyright / licensing issues :P Jan 29 20:53:56 s/earlier/early/ Jan 29 20:57:00 johnx: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:The_Curse_of_California.jpg Jan 29 20:57:50 RST38h, we can work with that. no show me your photochop :) Jan 29 20:58:03 johnx: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Standard_oil_octopus_loc_color.jpg Jan 29 20:58:28 Hey, I am just a stupid computer programmer. Jan 29 20:58:37 What photochop? I don't even have a mac! =) Jan 29 20:59:03 RST38h, you want the feature, you send the patch :P Jan 29 20:59:08 johnx: it's so nice just to write sudo reboot Jan 29 20:59:25 instead of rootsh reboot? :) Jan 29 20:59:33 johnx: http://flickr.com/search/?q=tentacles&l=deriv&ss=2&ct=6&s=int Jan 29 20:59:37 you can do that? Jan 29 20:59:46 seems to work Jan 29 20:59:56 scary, always used sudo gainroot :P Jan 29 21:00:18 I don't know if it's going through the same reboot process as nokia's menu though... Jan 29 21:00:26 you have rootsh installed, right? Jan 29 21:00:37 yeah, i do Jan 29 21:00:44 not on mer, but Jan 29 21:00:44 :P Jan 29 21:01:10 to use nokia's method of rebooting, you send a dbus signal to mce Jan 29 21:01:34 http://flickr.com/photos/doctorow/135079433/sizes/o/ or do you need more tentacls in a picture? :) Jan 29 21:02:28 cool http://flickr.com/photos/24471966@N04/3067288564/ Jan 29 21:02:35 ok, I'll stop now - bonne nuit! Jan 29 21:02:39 hehe, gnite Jan 29 21:02:42 g'nite Jan 29 21:03:42 Stskeeps: is there a vmdk/VirtualBox image which shows the HAM installing problems? If so, I might be able to look at it later Jan 29 21:04:29 Jaffa_: mm, think so, lemme upload Jan 29 21:05:07 Wait, do we have the DSME code finally? Jan 29 21:05:13 yeah, we do Jan 29 21:05:22 GeneralAntilles: came today Jan 29 21:05:23 Took long enough. <_< Jan 29 21:05:32 no OHM yet >_< Jan 29 21:05:35 GeneralAntilles: there's also a small token gift in it if you look closely enough Jan 29 21:05:42 enough to implement hald-addon-bme on our own Jan 29 21:05:50 Huh Jan 29 21:06:01 "dummy bme" Jan 29 21:06:06 for testing Jan 29 21:06:28 X-Fade, ping? Jan 29 21:06:40 Bollocks regarding CAL though Jan 29 21:06:48 qwerty12_N800: meh :P Jan 29 21:07:19 Meh, makes it worthless to me. Jan 29 21:07:23 https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/dsme/trunk/adhoc/dummy_bme.c?revision=155&root=dsm&view=markup Jan 29 21:14:56 RST38h, at for the media player, Midas is going to make it a lot simpler for 3rd-party offerings. Jan 29 21:17:45 General: As an end user, I would just prefer a lightweight, usable media player Jan 29 21:18:06 Hopefully the built-in one will be just that. Jan 29 21:18:12 General: Same with the messenger. I really do like Pidgin UI better than RTComm's =( Jan 29 21:18:25 Not that Pidgin is ideal of course Jan 29 21:18:32 I'm interested to see if they ship AIM/MSN/Yahoo by default Jan 29 21:19:47 GeneralAntilles: why do you think they might change the current position? Especially with the Ovi stuff? Jan 29 21:19:48 hopefully, as these have been ready for months now Jan 29 21:20:07 Jaffa_, well, apparently it's a licensing issue. Jan 29 21:21:17 evening b-man Jan 29 21:21:24 b-man: trouble with installer packaging btw? Jan 29 21:21:29 (prolly my fault) Jan 29 21:21:52 no, i haven't tested it yet :) Jan 29 21:21:55 k Jan 29 21:22:04 as in building the package problems Jan 29 21:22:33 btw did you make the ubuntu bootmenu gfx yourself? just curious :) Jan 29 21:22:42 yes :) Jan 29 21:23:13 not bad Jan 29 21:23:16 Screenshot? :) Jan 29 21:23:30 http://www.bman.maemobox.org/projects/ubuntu-n8x0/Ubuntu-rescue-menu.jpg Jan 29 21:23:44 :D Jan 29 21:23:55 Nice Jan 29 21:24:05 thanks :D Jan 29 21:24:15 b-man: next question Jan 29 21:24:24 how? :P you don't own a laptop :> Jan 29 21:24:35 (yet) Jan 29 21:25:00 did it in GIMP on ubuntu? ;) Jan 29 21:25:10 i'm about 1/2 done with the real ubuntu-rescue-menu btw ;) Jan 29 21:25:14 hehe Jan 29 21:25:23 i used gimp in ubuntu Jan 29 21:26:22 well you just proved that they are actually mini computers Jan 29 21:26:22 :P Jan 29 21:26:38 hehe ;) Jan 29 21:27:46 (the real challenge with ubuntu-rescue-menu is to get the icons alligned perfectly) ;) Jan 29 21:28:48 "No matches found" Jan 29 21:28:56 can't start fire Jan 29 21:29:08 ??? Jan 29 21:29:19 timeless: i would love my tablet coming with a lighter inside. Jan 29 21:29:20 a conversation we had offline Jan 29 21:29:35 based on a string the tablet uses fairly universally Jan 29 21:29:45 * timeless changes it to: Jan 29 21:29:46 "Text not found" Jan 29 21:30:16 does it takes regexp? if so, it should be matches Jan 29 21:30:16 :P Jan 29 21:30:25 it's a generic string Jan 29 21:30:39 users include rss, help, chat, and global search Jan 29 21:30:41 and ntoes Jan 29 21:32:34 "Nothing matched" Jan 29 21:32:35 ? Jan 29 21:32:38 any preference? Jan 29 21:32:53 "Out of butane" Jan 29 21:33:01 "Flame on!" Jan 29 21:33:10 hey, the 770 was in Silver Surfer! Jan 29 21:33:33 That's how I type on the finger keyboard. ;) Jan 29 21:35:26 ah, so you just jump up and down on it and any logical sentences formed are purely a coincidence? Jan 29 21:36:31 * Stskeeps waits for the bootmenu error to build Jan 29 21:37:32 johnx, sounds like my life. ;) Jan 29 21:39:29 GAN, what would you do if you saw a dialog titled: Jan 29 21:39:29 "Password needed" Jan 29 21:39:38 Stskeeps: hehe Jan 29 21:39:50 timeless: Knowing maemo - wonder where on earth to type the sodding thing? Jan 29 21:40:01 * timeless rotfl Jan 29 21:40:10 Hehe Jan 29 21:40:11 afaict, the answer to that is "in an example app" Jan 29 21:40:25 * b-man gives timeless a barf bag Jan 29 21:40:35 it seems to be part of libhildon Jan 29 21:40:46 b-man: did you see our beloved dialogs for incompatible bootmenus? Jan 29 21:40:50 / images Jan 29 21:40:50 i don't see any users in garage Jan 29 21:41:16 gan/jaffa: how about "Enter password" as the title? Jan 29 21:41:22 would that be less offensive to your tastes? Jan 29 21:41:35 b-man: http://s43.radikal.ru/i102/0901/3d/5d413bc7a106.jpg Jan 29 21:41:36 "Magic box" Jan 29 21:41:37 Stskeeps: not yet, i've ben busy with ubuntu-rescue-menu :) Jan 29 21:41:43 "Type in the root password of that important server at work." Jan 29 21:41:43 Yeah, Enter password isn't bad. Jan 29 21:41:44 timeless: is it obvious what the password's for? Jan 29 21:41:58 lol Jan 29 21:42:20 Stskeeps: :) Jan 29 21:42:29 jaffa: it's an api Jan 29 21:42:34 no one uses it in maemo software :) Jan 29 21:42:36 * Stskeeps tests out incompatible bootmenu Jan 29 21:42:38 at least, not in diablo Jan 29 21:43:22 * b-man resumes back to working on ubuntu-rescue-menu Jan 29 21:44:18 MediaBox eats 90+% CPu Jan 29 21:44:25 anyone else seen that? Jan 29 21:45:07 timeless: As long as it was obvious what the password was for, it's OK. I'd prefer "Enter Facebook password" (for example) Jan 29 21:46:32 johnx: this image certainly has enough dramatic effect Jan 29 21:46:44 nice and calm boot, splash screen, BAM, red underlining and the image Jan 29 21:46:45 :P Jan 29 21:46:56 hehe Jan 29 21:46:57 if it had a shark too, i would have gotten a heartattack. Jan 29 21:47:25 lol - especially with tat person in the background Jan 29 21:47:32 re: that Jan 29 21:47:45 yeah well Jan 29 21:47:50 hopefully no one in the world uses it? Jan 29 21:48:01 hehe Jan 29 21:48:07 Stskeeps, :D Jan 29 21:48:29 as i said, the only user of this seems to be a test Jan 29 21:48:50 johnx: http://www.bman.maemobox.org/projects/ubuntu-n8x0/Ubuntu-rescue-menu.jpg - if you did not see it Jan 29 21:48:56 the story of mer: lots of nice UI bits that probably no one will ever see :) Jan 29 21:49:12 :) Jan 29 21:49:17 johnx: i'm sure we'll see this particular error a lot. Jan 29 21:49:19 b-man, yup. saw that earlier. I'm impressed as hell you put that together on the tablet Jan 29 21:49:30 :D Jan 29 21:49:39 Stskeeps, well, hopefully not once we push the Mer SSU :D Jan 29 21:49:59 hehe ;) Jan 29 21:50:17 johnx: did you hear zenvoid's sounds btw? Jan 29 21:50:25 ah, nope Jan 29 21:50:34 I was out cold most of yesterday Jan 29 21:50:52 http://zenvoid.org/tmp/sounds/ Jan 29 21:50:56 should really hear some of them Jan 29 21:52:03 will wait until the wife is awake I think :) Jan 29 21:52:11 hehe Jan 29 21:53:58 still, i must say we've accomplished a lot in 0.6->0.7 so far Jan 29 21:55:10 yup. I hope to roll in the zaurus for 0.8 and hopefully attract some attention from devs in that world :) Jan 29 21:55:14 hehe Jan 29 21:55:20 cool Jan 29 21:55:28 it's going to be good to be able to take the 770s along in 0.7 :) Jan 29 21:56:26 and vmware users Jan 29 21:57:32 * b-man thinks that mer could be the next huge thing in the mobil linux world :) Jan 29 21:57:53 b-man: at least compared to moblin, which seems a bit odd.. Jan 29 21:57:59 sorry but for me sounds are really bad Jan 29 21:58:03 hehe Jan 29 21:58:28 wazd: hehe, i think they were also an initial example of what is possible Jan 29 21:58:32 Moblin is done by a company that has never done any OS distribution before Jan 29 21:58:46 And has somewhat limited experience releasing software products Jan 29 21:58:52 I hate loud and harsh sounds Jan 29 21:59:03 Your nemesis is not Moblin but Ubuntu Mobile Jan 29 21:59:06 * b-man spreads the news of ubuntu-rescue-menu to ITT Jan 29 21:59:30 RST38h: speaking frankly though, i'm not sure of that Jan 29 21:59:32 reminds me .. Jan 29 21:59:32 sec Jan 29 22:00:23 I can install FL Studio and see what i can do) Jan 29 22:00:39 wazd: hehe, we will probably have multiple sound themes :) Jan 29 22:01:24 * etrunko wondering why the autobuilder favors chinook packages Jan 29 22:01:29 * b-man thinks about the possibilitys of rescue menu themes ;) Jan 29 22:03:29 What's the difference between (ubuntu-)rescue-menu and bootmenu? Jan 29 22:03:34 But I'd prefer to work on UI than on sounds) Jan 29 22:04:19 Jaffa_: rescue menus are later in the process and allows you to enable console mode, enable USB ethernet and USB serial (tbd) Jan 29 22:04:25 or reboot/boot normally Jan 29 22:04:36 it's -very- handy when developing and when your system is smashed Jan 29 22:05:04 Ah, right - yes, I've seen wazd's design for a mer one Jan 29 22:10:14 * b-man is getting really pised off by a stupid ad that keeps re-directing him >:( Jan 29 22:17:01 * b-man thinks about sending a complaint to the administrator of the website with the annoying add that won't take no for an awnser Jan 29 22:18:28 Complaints are overrated, send him a DDoS. Jan 29 22:18:52 or start directly by mailing body parts Jan 29 22:19:32 His own? Jan 29 22:19:40 nah, they can be anyone's Jan 29 22:19:43 doesn't really matter Jan 29 22:19:54 just like the tooth fairy: It can be anyone's teeth. :D Jan 29 22:19:57 * b-man thinks about sending the person with the add a worm virus Jan 29 22:20:08 even animal parts will do the persuasive job Jan 29 22:20:08 johnx, rotfl Jan 29 22:21:22 * RST38h really wants to know why every attempt to play a video in MediaBox or Canola is like stepping int a mine field Jan 29 22:22:04 You never know if it lets you stop playback or hangs in some weird state eating 100% CPu and preventing you from playing other videos Jan 29 22:22:51 RST38h: are they "sensible" videos? I've not had a problem (certainly compared with the built-in Media Player [although that's better recently]) Jan 29 22:23:10 Jaffa: Trying to watch worldtv99 channels over MediaBox Jan 29 22:23:36 Ah, so streaming stuff? I rarely bother these days, although the Worldtv99 stuff was interesting at the summit. Jan 29 22:23:39 Jaffa: Same thing ocurs with YouTube on Canola (did not try with MediaBox yet) Jan 29 22:26:00 RST38h: hmm.. this can be related to mplayer Jan 29 22:27:27 etrunko: I remember you, Canola guys, saying something about difficulties interfacing with mplayer over dbus Jan 29 22:27:36 Is it the problem> Jan 29 22:27:38 ? Jan 29 22:28:22 RST38h: hard to tell... but yes, it can be Jan 29 22:28:53 oh, btw, can I report a bug? =0 Jan 29 22:28:58 mplayer is not meant to be used by other apps... it works much better as a standalone Jan 29 22:29:07 (reported it before to handful, but it has not been fixed) Jan 29 22:29:10 RST38h: please do... bugs.maemo.org Jan 29 22:29:29 Canola bugs are there now Jan 29 22:29:35 etrunko: ah, you have got your own category there! ok Jan 29 22:30:37 :) Jan 29 22:30:39 thanks Jan 29 22:32:03 RST38h: One of the problems is that XV for some reason does not utilize a fast blizzard overlay when used with mplayer. It needs to be investigated if it is some configuration problem like colorkey, placement of the output window or whatever Jan 29 22:32:04 etrunko: You are not planning on changing from using mplayer executable to using libraries? Jan 29 22:32:55 RST38h: a bit difficult for youtube files. Jan 29 22:33:09 ssvb: you can just as well open dev/fb0 (dev/fb1 for YUV) and fornicate with blizzard as much as you want Jan 29 22:33:22 btw, gstreamer now supports flv playback, at least on my desktop Jan 29 22:33:27 etrunko: well, they are just a specially compressed video Jan 29 22:33:34 RST38h: well, I know :) Jan 29 22:33:53 RST38h: yeah. it would be a matter of packaging it and testing on the device Jan 29 22:33:56 RST38h: but canola uses XV for video output for embedding into a window Jan 29 22:34:11 etrunko: it should, flv support has probably been added to decoder libs by now Jan 29 23:03:05 Stskeeps: starting Mer in VirtualBox :-) Jan 29 23:03:24 ssvb: nice work on sbc Jan 29 23:04:44 Canola scrolling bug: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4058 Jan 29 23:04:58 Please, vote if you are having the same problem Jan 29 23:06:06 /sleep Jan 29 23:06:28 'night RST38h Jan 29 23:06:29 jaffa: is there a vmware image? Jan 29 23:07:09 timelE61i: 0.7 release on Sunday will have one, yes. Stskeeps may want to hand out a beta, I don't know. Jan 29 23:07:43 night RST38h Jan 29 23:07:46 thanks Jan 29 23:10:33 Stskeeps: I just took that image in VirtualBox, did "echo 'assume-connecton 1' >~/.osso/hildon-application-manager" in X Terminal; started Application Manager; checked the current catalogues and went and installed the Titan theme without any problems whatsoever. Jan 29 23:10:43 lardman: thanks, I hope to do some ARMv6 SBC optimizations on this weekend, otherwise it still will not run fast enough on ARM11 Jan 29 23:11:34 Jaffa, ok. I kinda lost track of doing that change earlier. will do it now :) Jan 29 23:12:31 ssvb, hope the xv problem is not major :P Jan 29 23:12:41 johnx: the first setup wizard stuff is cool. Jan 29 23:13:30 Jaffa, ah thanks :) It's really just a skeery bash script + zenity Jan 29 23:13:40 lcuk: that's something which prevents running it on optimized path, and it is related to the way how mplayer uses XV Jan 29 23:13:50 Yeah (I could tell) - but it's nice to be asked these things rather than be just 'user' :) Jan 29 23:14:15 ahhh you are on about this device, i keep seeing similar queries coming up in #beagle ;) Jan 29 23:15:36 lcuk: yes, current device is not dead yet :) and what are the problems with #beagle? Jan 29 23:16:02 not problems, i just notice a few bings for my xv keyword Jan 29 23:16:02 * Jaffa beds. Jan 29 23:16:07 gnite jaffa Jan 29 23:16:54 i also notice they dont discuss bacon much Jan 29 23:17:46 and ssvb, the current device rocks! :D Jan 29 23:19:24 agreed. my desktop from 10 years ago was slower and more expensive :) Jan 29 23:21:04 ssvb: not fast enough, what is fast enough then? Jan 29 23:21:48 heh lardman theres always optimizations Jan 29 23:22:21 lardman: well, something that is not obviously running a lot slower than it could :) Jan 29 23:47:06 this is gonna give me nightmares I think: http://tinyurl.com/bgspvl Jan 29 23:49:14 ssvb: ah, and there I was thinking that omap3 wasn't as fast as we've heard it is ;) Jan 30 00:00:58 johnx, ive seen one of those eating a whole beetle car Jan 30 00:01:28 eep. just looks so damn easy to fall into Jan 30 00:02:08 http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=tPDLX0koXFs Jan 30 00:03:28 it ate that couch in one go Jan 30 00:04:45 it does take apart cars rather a lot quicker than the last time I did... Jan 30 00:06:08 heh yeah Jan 30 00:06:51 and I still had plenty of respect for how much quicker a sawzall and a cut-off wheel makes things... Jan 30 00:08:19 sawzall would appear to have its own issues so i heard, something about moisture and conductivity of different woods triggering Jan 30 00:08:50 luckily the car we were cutting in half was made of metal Jan 30 00:09:08 wicked, what did you do with the 2 halves? Jan 30 00:09:18 took it to a dump :) Jan 30 00:09:30 s/it/them/ Jan 30 00:09:30 johnx meant: took them to a dump :) Jan 30 00:09:55 did you try and drive the front half :D Jan 30 00:10:18 the whole reason we didn't drive it to the dump is that it was already undriveable :/ Jan 30 00:10:40 boo Jan 30 00:10:44 * timeless looks aroudn Jan 30 00:10:45 Yeah, but maybe with less weight, you could get it going... :p Jan 30 00:10:52 heh Jan 30 00:11:07 yeah, boo to my friend for crashing it after I helped him get it working all nice :| Jan 30 00:12:22 "Not available while Bluetooth set off" Jan 30 00:12:41 anyone have any ideas who one could improve that message? Jan 30 00:12:47 s/who/how/ Jan 30 00:12:48 timeless meant: anyone have any ideas how one could improve that message? Jan 30 00:12:48 Someone set us off the bluetooth! Jan 30 00:13:09 just s/set/is/ Jan 30 00:13:33 What isn't available? Jan 30 00:13:42 bluetooth? Jan 30 00:13:54 true love? Jan 30 00:14:39 10 Ways to True Love Through vCards? Jan 30 00:15:00 heh...once a certain company improves vCard import ... Jan 30 00:15:22 Gotta get up early and drive tomorrow. Jan 30 00:15:25 * GeneralAntilles really should sleep. . . . Jan 30 00:15:39 gah. me too Jan 30 00:15:42 9:15AM O_o Jan 30 00:16:00 I'm even off my b0rken night-shift schedule Jan 30 00:17:49 ~lart morning for coming too early Jan 30 00:17:49 * infobot whips out his power stapler and staples morning's foot to the floor for coming too early Jan 30 00:20:43 are there pictures of Nokia's newest tablet already? Jan 30 00:20:57 * sisto is impatient Jan 30 00:21:02 nope :P Jan 30 00:21:24 :| Jan 30 00:22:07 patience. if you saw the alpha release of their SDK you'd know you wouldn't have a version of Maemo to run on it yet anyways Jan 30 00:23:15 i haven't Jan 30 00:23:29 I guess it sucks? Jan 30 00:23:40 But we're ahead of Moblin! Jan 30 00:23:46 No. it doesn't 'suck.' It's just not ready Jan 30 00:23:50 Not really, just not done. Jan 30 00:24:01 at this point it's really too early to say 'sucks' or 'awesome' :) Jan 30 00:24:10 what about the Pandora? Jan 30 00:24:15 is it real? Jan 30 00:24:29 there's a video of a prototype actually running Jan 30 00:24:51 I don't know if that's real enough for all of the ... doubters, but I'm happy Jan 30 00:25:18 there are no launch dates yet, right? Jan 30 00:25:24 nope Jan 30 00:25:37 but it'll be sooner than the next thing from Nokia almost certainly Jan 30 00:25:44 I wonder how can people trust enough to pre-order it Jan 30 00:25:50 heh Jan 30 00:25:55 * johnx preordered Jan 30 00:26:06 Well, aside from "before the end of the year", where the year was 2008. Jan 30 00:26:11 I'm sure it's ok though Jan 30 00:26:54 I guess it was unofficially postponed? haha Jan 30 00:26:55 eh. I kinda figured it would be delayed at least a bit when I preordered Jan 30 00:27:09 I'd say the odds are pretty good for it, but there's some chance they go belly-up. Jan 30 00:27:15 what did you preorder? Jan 30 00:27:23 a pandora Jan 30 00:27:26 P&|A Jan 30 00:27:48 I didn't bet on it being delayed this much, but I'm willing to make a bet on a small company every once in a while Jan 30 00:27:57 I alternately kick and thank myself for not ordering. Jan 30 00:28:04 are they the same people that did the gp2x? Jan 30 00:29:02 benson, and November, and August, and July, and April. :P Jan 30 00:29:12 sisto, I think the answer is something like "not really" Jan 30 00:29:19 but they're connected to the gp2x guys Jan 30 00:29:44 GAN800, don't forget that the original plan was to launch by the end of summer 2007 or so with entirely different hardware :) Jan 30 00:30:08 johnx, right. ;) Jan 30 00:30:19 anyways, if my bet pans out and they can make these sustainably and I get nice open hardware to play with eventually I'll be happy Jan 30 00:30:22 That one we can blame squarely on TI, though. Jan 30 00:30:30 gp2x is nice but I would miss the kboard Jan 30 00:30:49 the gp2x is sloooow Jan 30 00:31:17 johnx: is it? I was talking generally, I have never tried one Jan 30 00:31:34 I bet 200mhz is slow Jan 30 00:31:39 * GAN800 notices he has an uncashed paycheck. . . . Jan 30 00:31:41 me neither, but from what I hear and from the specs it's just not fast Jan 30 00:31:43 so I trust you Jan 30 00:32:09 hmmm... I guess you should forget about snes emulation??? Jan 30 00:32:10 and still the devs did lots of impressive optimizations. hopefully they don't get lazy now that they have an omap3 to play with :) Jan 30 00:32:22 Is buying an N810 mostly because I want to own every tablet a good enough reason? Jan 30 00:32:33 sisto, on the gp2x it's kinda hit-or-miss I believe Jan 30 00:32:46 GAN800, uhm? not really :P Jan 30 00:32:57 GAN800: sounds right to me. that's what collectionists do Jan 30 00:33:00 johnx, an interesting trend to watch as hardware gets more powerful Jan 30 00:33:27 GAN800: If you wait a year, they'll be even cheaper... Jan 30 00:33:34 GAN800, based on the people who are interested I think they'll be interested in pushing the limits this time too Jan 30 00:33:38 There's a small chance it may become my primary device. Jan 30 00:33:40 That's what I'm telling myself, anhow. Jan 30 00:33:41 sorry that didn't sound like an english word Jan 30 00:33:55 benson, is the N800? ;) Jan 30 00:34:15 sisto, quite alright. you probably wanted collectors :) ... but I like collectionists better Jan 30 00:34:24 * lcuk will work as hard as possible to make the ui sliq Jan 30 00:34:48 GAN800: Yes. Practically all units for sale now are used, hence cheaper. Jan 30 00:34:59 I might give this N800 to a friend. . . . Jan 30 00:35:16 benson, buy not really by all that much Jan 30 00:35:16 I guess as hardware advances, people tend to be lazier towards optimization Jan 30 00:35:23 aargh, I've broken my code somehow Jan 30 00:35:30 but on consoles it's the opposite I think Jan 30 00:35:31 Maybe $150 versus buy's $190 Jan 30 00:35:50 sisto, it never used to be Jan 30 00:36:00 every console brought out until the console was like computers Jan 30 00:36:06 wii ^ Jan 30 00:36:10 ie increasing speed etc Jan 30 00:36:19 the wii reversed that trend :) Jan 30 00:36:36 the wii is a solidly more than 2x as fast as the cube Jan 30 00:36:53 but more than 7000000 times slower than the competition Jan 30 00:37:10 and still selling about a hojillion times as many units :) Jan 30 00:37:19 sorry then - top dog consoles that everyone must have Jan 30 00:37:24 Well, FWIW, I'd buy an N810 right now if it was $40 cheaper. A year from now, I may well not... Jan 30 00:37:28 but they optimize it to the limit Jan 30 00:37:36 sisto, :) nothing wrong with that Jan 30 00:37:50 yup, and everyone already knows how to optimize stuff for the wii Jan 30 00:37:57 lcuk: I know... what is wrong is Windows though Jan 30 00:38:05 apparently the PS3 is a real PITA, if half of what I read is true Jan 30 00:38:06 Vista :P Jan 30 00:38:38 sisto, lots. but no, not vista, but same is true in linux gnome etc. Jan 30 00:38:44 benson: what price did you find it at? Jan 30 00:39:01 * benson may have dodged spending $250 or so on a monitor, so I have the cash... Jan 30 00:39:10 It _is_ tempting. Jan 30 00:39:10 heh. what's wrong is that MS didn't properly abstract their UI layer and so switching to a composited UI caused lots of problems. Though I honestly don't understand the insane memory usage Jan 30 00:39:33 current windowing GUIs are geared towards mouse and they work really well. however when you get a touchscreen over 90% of the area is unusable and not touchable to the expected effect. something like liqbase uses 99% of the screen for active interaction and lets you touch where you want. Jan 30 00:39:34 sisto: I got the first one at ~$205 Jan 30 00:39:57 benson: where? Jan 30 00:39:57 Second one was ~190, I think Jan 30 00:40:14 sisto: I will buy one in February when I travel to the US Jan 30 00:40:18 And third one was part of a bundle. Jan 30 00:40:21 ha Jan 30 00:40:37 lowest I found it was 250 Jan 30 00:40:43 Not sure we're talking the same thing? I'm talking N800s, about a year ago. Jan 30 00:40:52 I don't have an N810 yet. Jan 30 00:40:54 n810 Jan 30 00:40:57 ok Jan 30 00:40:59 picked mine up for ~$260 in march '07 Jan 30 00:41:17 N810 are $220 on buy.com now. Jan 30 00:41:19 best thing that compUSA ever did for me is go out of business and have a liquidation sale :) Jan 30 00:41:27 benson: I guess you're not a fan of the n810? Jan 30 00:41:59 I kinda like the notion of the slideout keyboard, but it's mixed with enough bad changes... Jan 30 00:42:18 IDK, maybe I'd like it better if I had one. Jan 30 00:42:39 you can get a 2nd slot in your n810 now Jan 30 00:42:47 best of both :) Jan 30 00:42:49 benson: what is worse on the n810 besides having no FM radio and no SD card slots? Jan 30 00:42:55 A 2nd slot, USB or what? Jan 30 00:42:59 no Jan 30 00:43:12 D-pad in wrong place. Jan 30 00:43:14 i think its a second Jan 30 00:43:24 might be wayyyyy off, lemme check - ive always assumed it was second Jan 30 00:43:36 And the SD slot's a big factor, although that's mitigated by craves1's adapter. Jan 30 00:43:48 benson: I guess they could have moved the screen a bit to the right and placed the d-pad on the left, right? Jan 30 00:43:55 heh benson yeah :$ its craves1's Jan 30 00:44:03 its not a second one - its a bigger card then Jan 30 00:44:06 * lcuk got mixed up Jan 30 00:44:10 benson: adapter? Jan 30 00:44:17 Which goes in the miniSD slot and runs a full SD under the back panel. Jan 30 00:44:23 mmm...one thing I'd love in an N810 is using that 3600mAh battery Jan 30 00:44:57 if you could run your n8x0 at pda resolution all day, how long would it last Jan 30 00:44:58 Yeah, that's just it. I'd have to buy craves1's adapter, and the 3.6Ah battery, too. Jan 30 00:44:59 this? http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=254332 Jan 30 00:45:00 normal battery Jan 30 00:45:24 I'm running a 3.6Ah in my N800 sometimes. :p Jan 30 00:45:26 lcuk, what? Jan 30 00:45:44 running n8x0 at lower resolution, im just pondering the runtime Jan 30 00:45:50 won't do anything Jan 30 00:45:59 i remember my loox had a much bigger battery Jan 30 00:46:12 power usage goes something like: CPU, wifi, backlight, Jan 30 00:46:13 ahh its brightness of the screen in part that does it Jan 30 00:47:02 * lcuk is tired its been quite an evening Jan 30 00:48:55 I guess a microsd will be enaugh for me... I just need to download some podcasts and movies. 8 gb will be enaugh Jan 30 00:49:07 16gb microsd works great in n810 Jan 30 00:49:24 Mousey: that too Jan 30 00:49:57 Yeah, but last I looked, 16GB microSD are quite spendy, and only Class 4. Jan 30 00:50:03 there's a 3600 mAh battery? Jan 30 00:50:18 blah, i got class 2, it's not like the device is gonna keep up with class 4 speed anyway Jan 30 00:50:22 are there any games that use the 3d hardware on the n810? I read the video memory can't drive the screen on full resolution when using 3d mode, so you have to crop it :( Jan 30 00:50:24 Where fast 16GB full-size SD are affordable. Jan 30 00:50:34 Yeah, it will. Jan 30 00:50:43 if i had full size SD, i'd get 32GB Jan 30 00:51:13 SDs slow down as they get rewritten, the rating is nly on a fresh card. Jan 30 00:52:05 benson: I have had my 2gb sd card for about 3 or 4 years now with constant writing on it and it has yet to fail me Jan 30 00:52:13 And I'm pretty sure I've seen >4 MB/s speeds here, though I'm not sure. I'm not copying big files often. Jan 30 00:52:58 gnite folks Jan 30 00:53:27 night all Jan 30 00:53:28 lcuk: bnite Jan 30 00:53:32 Mousey: Yes, mugen makes 3.6Ah batteries for N810, and for E61. Jan 30 00:53:32 g Jan 30 00:53:57 oooh, the samurai from samurai champloo makes batteries now? Jan 30 00:54:05 E61 is same battery as 770/N800, but the battery cover doesn't fit, of course. Jan 30 00:54:07 * Mousey googles Jan 30 00:54:24 It lasts like crazy, though. :D Jan 30 00:54:59 hey Jan 30 00:55:11 if i take a mobile device into a room Jan 30 00:55:18 and there's another mobile device in the room Jan 30 00:55:26 and we want to share files w/o using bluetooth Jan 30 00:55:31 but we want to use a radio Jan 30 00:55:38 and share the files directly w/o a third device Jan 30 00:55:48 how do you spell that system? :) Jan 30 00:56:04 eieio! Jan 30 00:56:05 ad-hoc WiFi? Jan 30 00:56:10 benson: thanks Jan 30 00:56:19 that's precisely the spelling i was expecting Jan 30 00:56:22 but i wanted confirmation Jan 30 00:56:39 * timeless ponders Jan 30 00:56:49 * timeless wonders what the heck a 'Duration:' is Jan 30 00:56:59 It's from two separate latin words, so "ad hoc WiFi" would be acceptable, but nobody does. Jan 30 00:57:19 benson: obviously nobody include nokia Jan 30 00:57:26 which is correct, it's a nobody :) Jan 30 00:57:29 * timeless kicks nokia Jan 30 00:57:38 (strings changed locally) Jan 30 00:57:58 * timeless wodners what 'Internet connection' is Jan 30 00:58:04 s/wodners/wonders/ Jan 30 00:58:21 (it's a string somewhere in the n800/n810, i'm not sure i want to hunt for it) Jan 30 00:58:52 * timeless grumbles Jan 30 00:59:02 "No ongoing connection to phone" Jan 30 01:00:34 timeless: i don't think it's called ad-hoc if you use bluetooth. unless you were talking about wifi Jan 30 01:00:49 sisto: read my question more carefully Jan 30 01:01:02 timeless: haha ok Jan 30 01:01:19 (fwiw, someone could have been annoying and mentioned irda) Jan 30 01:01:30 but i got the answer i wanted :) Jan 30 01:01:41 heh...IRDA is a reality for me. it's how I get pics off my phone onto my zaurus :) Jan 30 01:01:59 hey, irda is how i send files from my laptop to my phone Jan 30 01:02:03 also, the linux command line 'wireless-tools' call it ad-hoc as well Jan 30 01:02:22 I thought of saying "RDS", what with the RX-51... Jan 30 01:02:27 every phone here has irda. it's wonderful for exchanging phone numbers Jan 30 01:02:57 benson: i'm dealing w/ diablo :) Jan 30 01:03:59 * timeless cries Jan 30 01:04:04 "Phone selecting 1/4: Welcome" Jan 30 01:04:48 timeless, look. it could be worse. http://www.boingboing.net/2009/01/27/suburban-japan-4.html Jan 30 01:04:50 does the n810 come with diablo from the factory? Jan 30 01:05:18 sisto, generally no I believe Jan 30 01:07:19 johnx: our intranet has a picture: Jan 30 01:07:21 Nokia Jan 30 01:07:25 connocting poopie Jan 30 01:08:36 but you have to keep in mind: This is not some isolated incident...though to be fair, I think they might be trying to go for engrish-loving tourist market Jan 30 01:09:35 yeah, see.. Jan 30 01:09:39 there's a difference Jan 30 01:09:49 i want my friends and family in the US to buy my Nokia product Jan 30 01:09:55 which means the English needs to be good Jan 30 01:09:59 but the things that get out on shelves here are like the things that only get to the proofreaders inside Nokia Jan 30 01:10:02 and it needs to be American Jan 30 01:10:11 shipping colour and other britishisms... Jan 30 01:10:43 I think you're doing it backwards: Americans will pay lots of cash to *import* things with Japanese English on them Jan 30 01:10:54 really Jan 30 01:10:55 ? Jan 30 01:11:10 I'm sure engrish.com is doing a brisk trade Jan 30 01:12:42 i could easily contribute many items from Finnish restaurants Jan 30 01:12:52 so could my italian coworkers Jan 30 01:13:45 http://www.engrish.com//wp-content/uploads/2009/01/sweet-as-a-naughty-girl.jpg Jan 30 01:13:47 * timeless frowns Jan 30 01:13:54 * timeless doesn't get it Jan 30 01:14:10 are sweet and bold swapped? Jan 30 01:14:25 it's just nonsense Jan 30 01:16:01 anyways, I could kvetch about this stuff all morning, but I need to get some sleep :) Jan 30 01:16:02 'night all Jan 30 01:17:30 g'night johnx Jan 30 01:31:58 who's even heard of shop.eten.hu Jan 30 01:32:12 only place i can find the 3600 mAh mugen battery for n810 Jan 30 01:32:16 Mousey: I have. Jan 30 01:32:27 I bought my N800 battery there. Jan 30 01:32:36 what country are you in? Jan 30 01:32:42 USA Jan 30 01:33:05 i wish there was an external battery charger =( Jan 30 01:33:42 What do you mean by external battery charger? Jan 30 01:33:57 for n810 batteries Jan 30 01:33:59 ^_^ Jan 30 01:34:21 Oh right. Jan 30 01:34:53 and nokia seems to have axed DC-1 :-( Jan 30 01:37:22 meh Jan 30 01:56:10 Mousey: http://cgi.ebay.com/Battery-Charger-For-Nokia-E61i-E90-E90i-N810-BP-4L_W0QQitemZ200293463836QQcmdZViewItemQQptZPDA_Accessories?hash=item200293463836&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205|66%3A1|65%3A12|39%3A2|240%3A1318 Jan 30 01:56:17 http://cgi.ebay.com/Battery-Charger-for-NOKIA-E61i-E90-E90i-N810-810-BP-4L_W0QQitemZ300268084259QQcmdZViewItemQQptZPDA_Accessories?hash=item300268084259&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205|66%3A1|65%3A12|39%3A2|240%3A1318 Jan 30 01:56:22 http://cgi.ebay.com/BATTERY-CHARGER-FOR-NOKIA-BP-4L-E61i-E63-E71-E90-N810_W0QQitemZ330289776423QQcmdZViewItemQQptZPDA_Accessories?hash=item330289776423&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205|66%3A1|65%3A12|39%3A2|240%3A1318 Jan 30 01:57:20 danke Jan 30 01:58:28 I bought one of those for my camera last year Jan 30 01:58:35 directly from hong kong :| Jan 30 01:58:49 it works though Jan 30 02:23:37 hi Jan 30 02:43:49 So any idea why gconf-editor is not showing up in my maemo extras? Jan 30 02:47:21 I'm amazed at the ignorance of the RX-51 on -developers. Jan 30 02:48:17 LinuxHack3r, it's only in Extras-devel for the moment. Jan 30 02:48:21 There's a .install here: Jan 30 02:48:23 ~extras Jan 30 02:48:23 methinks extras is http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras Jan 30 02:49:10 GeneralAntilles: I don't understand... Jan 30 02:49:49 LinuxHack3r, you know how Debian's repositories are broken up into several stability levels? Jan 30 02:49:57 Well, Extras is broken up into two: Extras and Extras-devel. Jan 30 02:50:12 GeneralAntilles: And I need the extras-devel! Jan 30 02:50:19 gconf-editor has not yet been promoted to Extras Jan 30 02:51:19 GeneralAntilles: But it is entirely safe..right? Jan 30 02:51:28 Not all packages are safe, no. Jan 30 02:51:33 So I recommend not leaving it enabled Jan 30 02:51:41 Just grab gconf-editor then disable the repository. Jan 30 02:52:06 GeneralAntilles: Oh...and it won't remove the package will it... Jan 30 02:53:22 No Jan 30 02:54:59 GeneralAntilles: I've only had this this thing for a few days...my n810 that is...after I click the link...I cannot hit open..and if I do...it tells me"not enough free memory on local disk for downloading". Is that talking about the 256 or the 2gb internal? Jan 30 02:55:21 Delete the random crap from in MyDocs Jan 30 02:55:26 The bundled movies and documentation Jan 30 02:56:21 GeneralAntilles: Oh shoot..just rememberred that accidental command I ran at school today...I've already deleted the mydocs...but accidently mv'd some stuff somewhere to somewhere. Let me look into that. **** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Jan 30 02:59:57 2009