**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Feb 02 02:59:57 2009 Feb 02 03:01:20 jmesquita: what exactly are you doing? sound should work out of the box on the tablets Feb 02 03:31:52 sisto: I am compiling a lib based on PA Feb 02 03:32:30 based on penny arcade? Feb 02 03:32:40 * Mousey thinks . o O ( that's weird... ) Feb 02 03:33:25 PA = Port Audio, sorry Feb 02 03:35:01 jmesquita: sorry you sound a lot more literate than I am on this matter... Feb 02 03:39:33 sisto: Ehehee, not a problem. It seems that PA and Maemos Alsa support are incompatible ... Feb 02 03:40:03 sisto: PA relies on ALSA plugins and Maemo has its own custom plugin to use the tablets dsp Feb 02 03:40:10 sisto: If that matters Feb 02 03:43:56 jmesquita: when you said PA first i thought you meant pulseaudio I never heard about port audio... will google Feb 02 03:48:27 ok maybe Feb 02 03:48:28 we all send our congressmen cards Feb 02 03:48:29 with printouts of goatse Feb 02 04:01:33 * Mousey readies his envelopes Feb 02 04:05:06 oh we have to demand habeus corpus rights Feb 02 04:05:13 lets not forget that Feb 02 04:05:15 *demand* Feb 02 04:09:44 pupnik: _Why_ are we doing this, and how am I supposed to print it out without seeing it myself? Feb 02 04:10:18 you surpass me in randomness Feb 02 04:10:22 i bow to your power Feb 02 04:10:50 (Not that I can come up with a _bad_ reason, since we're speaking of congressmen...) Feb 02 04:11:18 seriously. talk to your neighbors Feb 02 04:11:24 make a resolution. Feb 02 04:11:29 we demand them Feb 02 04:14:10 oh, is this nokia/dmca? Feb 02 04:14:17 wait, s/dmca/snooping/ Feb 02 05:30:04 hi Feb 02 05:33:39 damn! i know why my gentoo doesn't boot Feb 02 05:33:43 shit Feb 02 05:34:05 ~curse bootmenu, linux distros and everyone Feb 02 05:34:24 bootmenu calls /usr/sbin/chroot Feb 02 05:34:28 May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, bootmenu, linux distros and everyone ! Feb 02 05:34:37 but i have /usr/bin/chroot Feb 02 05:34:58 damn Feb 02 05:35:18 it tooks me three days to figure out Feb 02 05:36:47 gone for reboot Feb 02 05:40:29 nite all' Feb 02 06:55:09 Hi, did anyone try running a GtkClutter application or test-examples on OMAP3? I can run clutter test examples but getting some errors when I'm trying to run any Gtk-Clutter application. Feb 02 07:06:14 A man shopping in a Lenovo store in mainland China has been killed after the phone in his chest pocket exploded, severing arteries and leading to massive blood loss. Feb 02 07:06:33 nokia? Feb 02 07:06:35 * RST38h wonders if the phone was also made by Lenovo Feb 02 07:06:48 Mousey: I would just blame Lenovo, based on the previous experience. Feb 02 07:07:44 heh Feb 02 07:20:21 hmm, 101 day uptime, not bad :D (n810) Feb 02 07:24:20 wow Feb 02 07:24:24 how is that even POSSIBLE Feb 02 07:24:29 * Mousey bows in respect Feb 02 07:24:36 don't reboot? Feb 02 07:24:41 turn off watchdog? Feb 02 07:24:53 everybody's got a theory =P Feb 02 07:24:55 hmm, iirc watchdog is on now.. used to be off Feb 02 07:25:13 but that was before i fixed the internal mmc partition Feb 02 07:25:19 don't use it much? Feb 02 07:25:31 the kbd backlight lags tho Feb 02 07:26:09 used to mostly ssh around Feb 02 07:30:38 * timeless looks for someone willing to risk their n800/n810 :) Feb 02 08:15:07 timeless: I am all in for it Feb 02 08:15:17 give me 5mins Feb 02 08:15:19 since my screen is broken anyway Feb 02 08:15:54 * qwerty12 thanks Russia for sending their snowstorms here :) Feb 02 08:16:14 send them a firestorm?:D Feb 02 08:16:50 That's not a nice way of saying thanks :P Feb 02 08:17:29 keesj: so your tablet isn't usable? Feb 02 08:25:09 timeless: well the screen sometimes generated pressess and the acuracy of the touchscreen is sub-optimal. it's anoying enough to not use it Feb 02 08:25:37 ok, i'm rebuilding debs now, i should have things in 10moins Feb 02 08:25:54 yo, Feb 02 08:32:17 timeless: do you have any requirements regarding the os version?(my os 2008 feature upgrade did not work) Feb 02 08:32:39 i don't think so Feb 02 08:32:56 the debs don't seem to enforce versioning Feb 02 08:34:49 presumably that means i screwed up the conflicts lines Feb 02 08:34:57 oops, wrong window Feb 02 08:35:11 * Stskeeps yawns Feb 02 08:46:35 morning rzr Feb 02 08:46:42 rzr: 770 image is now fixed, it was broken before :) Feb 02 08:46:50 fwiw, i hit a packaging snag, i need to resolve it before i can share Feb 02 08:48:13 Meiz_n810: the point is through a curious mechanism to be able to include stuff we wouldn't normally be able to include Feb 02 08:48:21 maybe skype, but most likely nokia made stuff Feb 02 08:48:41 ok Feb 02 08:49:49 so it's the things from Maemo you are missing that we need to sneak for instance Feb 02 08:50:50 * Meiz_n810 boots to Mer Feb 02 08:53:20 * keesj just decided mer later today Feb 02 08:54:38 * Stskeeps glances over at the beagleboard and should really get jaunty going on it at some point Feb 02 08:57:24 define jaunty Feb 02 08:57:48 well, ubuntu jaunty armel with a fairly sane debian-style kernel Feb 02 08:57:49 jaunty is ubuntu's next release Feb 02 08:58:11 https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JauntyJackalope Feb 02 08:58:13 i had mojo going on it before xmas Feb 02 08:58:45 Anyone happen to know why kill `pidof uptimed` won't work from a prerm script but works fine from a shell? Feb 02 09:06:22 morning johnx Feb 02 09:06:39 mornin' Feb 02 09:06:48 hello world Feb 02 09:06:56 i was trying to make foo-l10n-enus packages Feb 02 09:07:12 Morning, all Feb 02 09:07:28 but the way the foo-l10n packages exist and conflict w/ foo-l10n-enus seem to mean i can't use foo-l10n-enus as a package name Feb 02 09:08:38 anyone have a suggested package naming scheme? Feb 02 09:08:46 one approach is foo-l10n-enus1 Feb 02 09:09:06 another is foo-l10n-enus-timeless Feb 02 09:10:09 remoo Feb 02 09:13:02 timeless: Conflicts/Replaces? :P Feb 02 09:13:11 / Provides Feb 02 09:13:16 can't Feb 02 09:13:24 foo-l10n conflicts w/ foo-l10n-enus Feb 02 09:13:29 ah Feb 02 09:13:39 and that would mean that installing foo-l10n-enus would uninstall your other locales Feb 02 09:13:42 which isn't ideal Feb 02 09:13:54 basically the nokia l10n team screwed up royally Feb 02 09:14:06 they should have used version conflicts Feb 02 09:14:08 but didn't Feb 02 09:14:59 well since Provides' doesn't have version numbers, it is a bitch Feb 02 09:15:17 Stskeeps: how did the 0.7 release go? Feb 02 09:16:00 :(, my workstation has decided it doesn't need to be responsive Feb 02 09:16:11 hmm mer 0.7 .install fails (application package missing: libc6 (>= 2.5.1) Feb 02 09:16:30 Jaffa: murphys law Feb 02 09:16:41 keesj: hmm, what package version does it try to download? Feb 02 09:16:52 Stskeeps: ah Feb 02 09:17:11 1.9.5-mer4 Feb 02 09:17:55 ah. now i know what's amatter Feb 02 09:17:56 sec Feb 02 09:21:22 keesj: apt-get update and try again :) i had built on the wrong armel platform Feb 02 09:23:42 Jaffa: race condition in NFS causing imager to break the installs, built bootmenu on debian-armel instead of SB-DIABLO, rootstrap problems, 770 image not completing build, .. etc Feb 02 09:23:51 besides that, fine Feb 02 09:24:41 ok, mxr.maemo.org/garage now has new content Feb 02 09:25:41 the xref itself hasn't been transfered Feb 02 09:25:47 507M Jan 28 16:25 xref Feb 02 09:25:54 pushing that will take a while :) Feb 02 09:27:07 good morning my underlings :) Feb 02 09:27:22 morning crashanddie :) Feb 02 09:27:33 qwerty12: I take it you're home as well? Feb 02 09:27:37 yep Feb 02 09:28:05 good lad Feb 02 09:28:27 hehe Feb 02 09:28:44 how many inches you got? Feb 02 09:29:30 in a non-sexual way? Feb 02 09:29:37 Stskeeps: around? Feb 02 09:29:55 liri: mm? Feb 02 09:30:19 crashanddie, lol, that was the first thing that came to mind >.< but I haven't checked properly yet, lemme see :p Feb 02 09:31:12 About 3-4' Feb 02 09:31:18 jaffa/stskeeps/... Feb 02 09:31:30 any suggestions for my package naming problem? Feb 02 09:31:34 qwerty12: last night, I went out for a fag Feb 02 09:31:38 Stskeeps: did you try that evolution port to maemo? Feb 02 09:31:43 sp3000? Feb 02 09:31:47 qwerty12: I opened the front door, and was like "what the?" Feb 02 09:31:57 hello everyone Feb 02 09:31:59 timeless: i think the upcoming debmaster will be good at these questions Feb 02 09:32:00 'lo Myrtti Feb 02 09:32:01 haha Feb 02 09:32:05 hi Myrtti Feb 02 09:32:10 does that person have a name? Feb 02 09:32:12 liri: no sorry, not yet - i have been shit busy :) Feb 02 09:32:13 everything completely white, didn't get it Feb 02 09:32:22 Stskeeps: ahh ok Feb 02 09:32:24 timeless: hehe, not sure yet :) council is still working on it i think Feb 02 09:32:38 since i want to rush something out the door in 30mins Feb 02 09:32:47 i think i'm going to use enus1 Feb 02 09:33:10 timeless: sorry, I'm not up-to-speed. What's the problem? Feb 02 09:33:30 The debmaster is down to the final few, and hopefully an announcement will be made shortly. Feb 02 09:33:46 in the beginning each package foo Feb 02 09:34:01 Does anyone see "ps aux | grep daemon |grep uptimed | grep -v grep | awk '{print $1}'" as a little convoluted? Feb 02 09:34:01 had a set of corresponding packages foo-l10n-llcc Feb 02 09:34:16 then nokia decided to replace all those llcc's w/ a single package Feb 02 09:34:18 foo-l10n Feb 02 09:34:21 for each foo Feb 02 09:34:24 Yup Feb 02 09:34:28 qwerty12: a tad.. Feb 02 09:34:30 unfortunately Feb 02 09:34:42 the foo-l10n package conflicts w/ each foo-l10n-llcc Feb 02 09:34:47 and it isn't a versioned conflict Feb 02 09:35:01 i want to ship a package which should be named foo-l10n-enus Feb 02 09:35:08 "enus"? Feb 02 09:35:14 Stskeeps, I really can't think of better ways to do it though... if I run kill `pidof uptimed` from a shell it works. If I run it from my prerm, it says it can't find the process :/ Feb 02 09:35:16 Oh, as in en_US Feb 02 09:35:23 Who called eunuchs? Feb 02 09:35:35 but i can't, because doing that would cause the l10n package to be removed which would leave people w/o the other locales Feb 02 09:35:36 Stskeeps: upon the first bootmenu install I did get some errors that the *.items where not there , I guess this is normal but perhaps it's better to test if the files are there Feb 02 09:35:43 so unless i also ship the other locales, they'd only get enus Feb 02 09:35:56 qwerty12: it should be possible to simplify that Feb 02 09:35:57 timeless: Hmm, annoying Feb 02 09:36:05 no kidding Feb 02 09:36:10 timeless: and changing the base package Conflicts isn't an option? Feb 02 09:36:22 keesj: that's fine Feb 02 09:36:34 you mean rewriting the nokia shipped package meta data on everyone's real devices? Feb 02 09:36:42 and worrying about package domains? Feb 02 09:36:44 crashanddie, I'm all ears :). I have to do grep daemon because then, the postrm script ends up killing itself when I remove the package >.< Feb 02 09:36:46 timeless: yeah, that :) Feb 02 09:37:02 shall we pretend it isn't particularly realistic for the near future Feb 02 09:37:04 timeless: Is your new -enus package optional? Feb 02 09:37:21 my goal is to demo the fact that it's possible to have non lame strings Feb 02 09:37:25 timeless: i.e. only people who want en_US will install it? If so, removing the others (assuming it doesn't break SSU or something) should be fine Feb 02 09:37:28 qwerty12: first of all, why would you grep -v grep? Feb 02 09:37:39 i'd expect it'd break ssu Feb 02 09:37:46 timeless: Or, it does break SSU and it's released to a select few - and not Extras ;) Feb 02 09:37:52 Stskeeps: but after the Mer install and a working boot menu the install doesn't boot(after about 10 seconds it goes back to the boot menu selection) Feb 02 09:38:03 plus i want people to be able to switch to enGB to see the improvements my package has over the original Feb 02 09:38:17 crashanddie, because when I search for the process in ps, the grep process shows up too. Doing a grep -v grep hides that grep process from the output (whoo) Feb 02 09:38:29 qwerty: fwiw Feb 02 09:38:38 ps -o args|grep ^foo Feb 02 09:38:40 can be helpful Feb 02 09:38:42 keesj: oh boy. Feb 02 09:38:43 sec. Feb 02 09:38:55 at least, it works nicely on swift :) Feb 02 09:39:07 (really, ps -eo args|grep ^rsync) Feb 02 09:39:11 timeless: if it's just temporary can you just come up with a -enus-new or something? Feb 02 09:39:26 yeah, i can pick any -whatever name Feb 02 09:39:32 suggest one, i'll use it Feb 02 09:39:46 qwerty12: if you do a ps aux | grep daemon; it should already remove everything that has no daemon in it ;) Feb 02 09:39:50 oh, it takes over gb? no wonder I saw no strings on us Feb 02 09:39:51 -enus1 is what i'm currently considering Feb 02 09:39:57 sp3000: no Feb 02 09:39:59 timeless, thanks but I don't think busybox grep/ps agrees with that. Feb 02 09:40:02 timeless: Yeah, that's what I was thinking Feb 02 09:40:04 crashanddie, thanks, lemme see Feb 02 09:40:14 qwerty12: hang on, lemme ssh into my device Feb 02 09:40:16 keesj: apologies for this mess, i should have spent more time on it this weekend :) re-run installer and when it asks for URL, provide URL=http://stskeeps.subnetmask.net/mer/0.7/mer-armel-n800-image-v0.7.tar.gz Feb 02 09:40:20 sp3000: whcih files did you grab? Feb 02 09:40:26 forjx Feb 02 09:40:29 if you grab the latest forjx zip Feb 02 09:40:43 there are two versions, the empty one from before the half time show Feb 02 09:40:44 GPE contacts has syncing with google? Feb 02 09:41:00 and the one from about an hour ago (less?) where i actually shipped mo files :) Feb 02 09:41:17 the first one ran into a problem where the debian/foo.install file names weren't correct Feb 02 09:41:21 crashanddie, whee, thanks for that, you're right. I don't need to grep -v grep :) Feb 02 09:41:24 so it didn't package anything :) Feb 02 09:41:59 heh Feb 02 09:42:17 well, it packages gtk and one other thing if you want to be technical Feb 02 09:42:19 ahh, there's a #gpe channel Feb 02 09:42:25 grab it again and use dpkg -x Feb 02 09:42:38 * timeless goes to setup -enus1's Feb 02 09:43:10 * Stskeeps notes to himself this was the second-worst release of his life so far :P Feb 02 09:43:22 does it have a chance at being your worst? :) Feb 02 09:43:39 nop Feb 02 09:44:11 worst was a major waited for release of my old ircd, that in very probable situations mass-killed the entire IRC network Feb 02 09:44:31 which makes it even more ironic i'm doing healthcare software now.. Feb 02 09:45:59 Sts: What was the 1st ? Feb 02 09:46:11 ah Feb 02 09:46:14 RST38h: that one was the worst Feb 02 09:46:30 * RST38h has seen worse one Feb 02 09:46:39 Fortunately, done by competitors Feb 02 09:46:40 I hope it was not his child Feb 02 09:46:59 Stskeeps, but the actual released image worked out ok, right? Feb 02 09:47:07 johnx: yes, it's fine Feb 02 09:47:28 qwerty12: ps aux | egrep "daemon.*uptimed" | awk '{print $1}' Feb 02 09:48:06 Wicked, thank you. Feb 02 09:48:08 Brought down Minneapolis ARTCC Feb 02 09:48:21 does bootmenu now use kexec ? Feb 02 09:49:06 keesj: no sorry, we use same kernel as diablo currently - there's some KEXEC problems as discussed in previous one Feb 02 09:49:10 don't you hate it when you're downloading at 680KB/s but you have to quit as you're about to enter a teammeeting? Feb 02 09:49:59 hey there Feb 02 09:50:02 RST38h: heh, software bug in copenhagen airport: weather sensors on each end of a runway were reversed in the system Feb 02 09:51:09 ok so, i got voip working and it can receive calls... except when the screen shuts off... how do i fix this? Feb 02 09:51:24 n800 OS2008 Feb 02 09:51:38 genewitch, is this the latest version of OS2008 (diablo)? Feb 02 09:51:45 johnx: yes Feb 02 09:51:52 * Jaffa sighs at #5 at https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3135#c5 Feb 02 09:51:54 can you ping the tablet when the machine is off? Feb 02 09:52:07 s/machine/screen/ Feb 02 09:52:07 johnx meant: can you ping the tablet when the screen is off? Feb 02 09:52:16 let me check Feb 02 09:52:19 (current Modest svn trunk is not public Feb 02 09:52:19 unfortunately). Feb 02 09:52:20 ... Feb 02 09:52:25 Jaffa, yeah :/ that's a real downer Feb 02 09:53:45 hmhm, will the people at FOSDEM have some n810 to sell? Feb 02 09:54:14 johnx: yes, i can ping it with the screen off Feb 02 09:54:51 * timeless ponders Feb 02 09:54:52 so um Feb 02 09:55:03 * Stskeeps begins boostrapping a beagleboard image Feb 02 09:55:06 timeless, thanks for all the help yesterday, btw Feb 02 09:55:10 how do i want to deal w/ this stupid versioning Feb 02 09:55:22 :), enjoy your toy Feb 02 09:55:31 i bought another one for my girlfriend Feb 02 09:55:38 oh good Feb 02 09:55:47 well, in that case, thanks for supporting my job/employer :) Feb 02 09:55:49 you should've waited until the 14th Feb 02 09:55:50 i might even get my dad one, his palm pilot died Feb 02 09:56:15 * timeless tries to be cheerful once i a while Feb 02 09:56:15 so any ideas about the screen/idle thing interfering with receiving calls? Feb 02 09:56:32 * timeless doesn't deal w/ calls Feb 02 09:56:36 other than the strings Feb 02 09:56:45 ok, so um... Feb 02 09:56:48 * timeless grumbles Feb 02 09:57:16 osso-countries-l10n-enus1-5.0+r6160-timeless1 Feb 02 09:57:23 seems like a pretty stupid package name/version Feb 02 09:57:27 agreed? Feb 02 09:58:01 given that it's the first version of osso-countries-l10n-enus1 Feb 02 09:58:08 * timeless sighs Feb 02 09:58:10 timeless: maybe tl1 Feb 02 09:58:17 nah 0.1 will do Feb 02 09:58:24 once i figure out how to rewrite the other bits Feb 02 09:58:24 tl0.1? Feb 02 09:58:31 no, really just 0.1 Feb 02 09:58:35 oh Feb 02 09:58:42 it's my own pacakge since i was force to pick my own name Feb 02 09:59:18 yeah, i intend to start porting stuff as soon as i get the bugs ironed out of my main ubuntu install Feb 02 09:59:33 could someone tell me what the actual package version number is for osso-countries-l10n ? Feb 02 09:59:46 5.0+r6160 Feb 02 09:59:55 so if i want to conflict Feb 02 10:00:10 i should write Conflicts: osso-countries-l10n-enus (<= 5.0+r6160) Feb 02 10:00:11 ? Feb 02 10:00:34 "file pty not found" Feb 02 10:00:36 oooops Feb 02 10:03:13 Jaffa: At this rate, Modest is never going to be usable =) Feb 02 10:03:57 in diablo anyway :) Feb 02 10:04:23 * RST38h wonders if https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3295 will ever be fixed Feb 02 10:04:36 qwerty: Naah, that is not "in Diablo" but "never" Feb 02 10:05:26 qwerty: Abut 5-10 showstopping Modest bugs have been fixed so far, including ones scheduled for Fremantle Feb 02 10:05:56 RST38h, yeah :). I more mean that if it is fixed and made into a stable, decent mail client, then it will never be seen for diablo :) Feb 02 10:05:58 qwerty: the total number is probably more like 40-60 Feb 02 10:06:00 Stskeeps: alright booted into the Mer Feb 02 10:06:10 and going away.. Feb 02 10:06:35 qwerty: In other words, at this rate we will have fully usable Modest in Maemo8 or so Feb 02 10:06:43 buongiorno Feb 02 10:06:45 keesj: did it boot now? good Feb 02 10:07:43 Jaffa: Have you ever tried asking Nokia about opening Modest source code? Feb 02 10:08:05 isn't it open? Feb 02 10:08:07 The current version in diablo is open Feb 02 10:08:23 But maybe RST38h is referring to their hidden trunk version Feb 02 10:08:41 qwerty: The only one I found online is outdated Feb 02 10:08:58 qwerty: I do not think it is the current diablo version, way too olg Feb 02 10:10:08 RST38h, do you have your tablet in front of you? can you tell me the version of modest installed? Feb 02 10:10:09 RST38h, Nokia's update repo has the current diablo version at 1.0-2008.43-1 and there are 1.0-2008.43-1 debs in http://repository.maemo.org/pool/diablo/free/m/modest/ Feb 02 10:11:00 johnx: I don't :( It is on though, but behind two NATs Feb 02 10:11:19 RST38h, I know how that goes :/ Feb 02 10:11:23 ~lart NATs Feb 02 10:11:24 * infobot whips out a hot clue gun and makes sure that NATs is stuck to the floor Feb 02 10:11:39 qwerty: Maybe I should pull it down and hack on it Feb 02 10:12:07 You'd probably do a better job than nokia did :) Feb 02 10:12:12 qwerty: Nothing major just fix small crap that nobody cares to fix Feb 02 10:12:22 qwerty: Not sure abut it Feb 02 10:12:35 ...and build a spectrum ZX emu into it :D Feb 02 10:12:56 Some hacks were done by yerga (http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=228848), not functionality hacks but interface ones Feb 02 10:13:10 ! Feb 02 10:13:18 But I guess that could go under functionality anyway Feb 02 10:13:36 * timeless ponders Feb 02 10:13:40 All accounts in folder view - perfect Feb 02 10:13:48 i wonder if my 1000 char script should exist in a file Feb 02 10:13:49 Just what I wanted Feb 02 10:14:20 You'll need to rebuild from source though, that build seems for an older ssu Feb 02 10:14:33 timeless, just in ~/.bash_history for now? Feb 02 10:14:36 yes, he modified .35 Feb 02 10:14:42 notepad on my laptop Feb 02 10:14:44 Need to wget the latest sources first Feb 02 10:14:46 my shells don't keep history Feb 02 10:15:01 sorry to hear that :( Feb 02 10:15:54 johnx: having a pocket-sized unix machine hidden somewhere in the house and open to ssh has some really weird appeal Feb 02 10:16:09 RST38h, especially if it has a webcam and mic :) Feb 02 10:16:32 johnx: naah, those do make it stronger but do not define it Feb 02 10:16:36 back in high school I had a full tower samba server hidden under a desk in a storage room :) Feb 02 10:17:03 johnx: but I am afraid a shrink would have lots to say about this feeling =) Feb 02 10:17:15 it eventually developed important quasi-official duties, but it's physical location wasn't discovered until more than a year after I left... Feb 02 10:17:36 well, script seems to work :) Feb 02 10:17:50 I think some kind of timing attack was used to narrow down the location eventually... Feb 02 10:18:56 johnx: wow Feb 02 10:19:19 :D Feb 02 10:19:28 johnx: i have once or twice considering hubbing up under the panels in the hallway.. Feb 02 10:19:31 considered Feb 02 10:19:40 except our ethernet is kinda authed :) Feb 02 10:20:05 johnx: my favorite story is iirc a pdp11 that was encased in a wall somewhere Feb 02 10:20:19 Stskeeps, we did that in my dorm in college. We wired an AP into the drop ceiling in the hall so we could have inet access in the dorm lounge and powered it off an exit sign Feb 02 10:20:23 but i can't seem to find the article about it Feb 02 10:20:32 johnx: hehe Feb 02 10:20:35 nice Feb 02 10:21:52 eventually they cracked down on rogue APs and when someone started asking around we had to do a hurried extraction Feb 02 10:22:08 heh Feb 02 10:23:08 johnx: sometimes seperating university and dorms is a good thing.. they are much more strict at campus here Feb 02 10:24:12 heh...well it wasn't so much a case of leniency as the fact that they couldn't triangulate it without GPS... Feb 02 10:25:38 gps indoors is um... Feb 02 10:25:43 RST38h, I've collected yerga's patches if you want to apply it to latest modest: http://pastebin.com/mc217a4 Feb 02 10:26:15 johnx: it's fairly trivial armed with a pda to track it down if need be :P Feb 02 10:27:52 ooh Feb 02 10:27:59 i think mxr.maemo.org/garage's index is live Feb 02 10:28:05 in case people want to use it Feb 02 10:28:28 oh, no, almost live Feb 02 10:28:30 johnx: think my focus for 0.8 is nit-kernel-compat, some more work on community firmware images, #4016 and beagleboard support Feb 02 10:28:32 * timeless forgot the last step Feb 02 10:28:42 johnx: and improving for the 770 Feb 02 10:29:06 Stskeeps, ah, so we can be based on a later kernel if we want? Feb 02 10:29:16 yeah, for instance Feb 02 10:29:21 in this case, jffs2 images Feb 02 10:30:44 -rw-r--r-- 1 timeless pg922508 507M 2009-01-28 06:25 garage/xref Feb 02 10:30:44 -rw-r--r-- 1 timeless pg922508 146M 2008-09-18 17:02 garage1/xref Feb 02 10:30:54 it's amazing how much garage has grown :o Feb 02 10:31:11 well after stuff like SF and such turned totally crap.. Feb 02 10:31:12 :P Feb 02 10:31:36 -rw-r--r-- 1 timeless pg922508 15M 2009-01-30 02:29 garage/.glimpse_filenames Feb 02 10:31:37 -rw-rw-r-- 1 timeless pg922508 8.5M 2008-12-17 06:35 garage1/.glimpse_filenames Feb 02 10:31:51 oddly the amount in terms of files hasn't grown to match index size Feb 02 10:32:14 * timeless discards garage1 Feb 02 10:33:02 * timeless sighs Feb 02 10:33:07 * timeless kicks zenity Feb 02 10:33:20 oh oops Feb 02 10:33:34 i knew i forgot to do something Feb 02 10:33:37 * timeless sighs Feb 02 10:35:41 qwerty: Thanks! Going to try building it tonight if I have time Feb 02 10:36:02 I've actually built it here, want me to up the debs? Feb 02 10:36:22 qwerty: Naah, I wil have to build it from source anyway if I am going to fix some other things in it Feb 02 10:36:33 ok, it isn't perfect, but it should work Feb 02 10:36:45 qwerty: But uploading it to that iTT thread should make a lot of people happy =) Feb 02 10:36:45 RST38h, 'Twas the answer I was hoping for :) Feb 02 10:42:14 sudo apt-get remove snow ice Feb 02 10:42:34 sudo dpkg --purge --force-all snow ice Feb 02 10:42:42 lcuk, how's the snow up there? Feb 02 10:43:18 not that bad actually, horrid near home but once i got on the motorway and such it wasnt too bad Feb 02 10:43:56 Hehe, it hasn't snowed like that down here :) Feb 02 10:44:20 thats cos you warm jessies left the heating on overnight :P Feb 02 10:44:39 Heating? Ha. Feb 02 10:45:32 Boiler doesn't agree with central heating >.< :) Feb 02 10:47:39 * Stskeeps ponders where to get proper usb host adaptor in .dk Feb 02 10:48:23 i vaguely recall there being a "windows environment on maemo" thread somewhere, is there a wine port? Feb 02 10:48:47 genewitch, nope. Feb 02 10:48:49 No, wine emulates windows api calls, not a x86 processor. Feb 02 10:49:22 there's dosbox or bochs, but they're not fast enough to be usable for running windows Feb 02 10:49:36 rdesktop instead Feb 02 10:49:49 i don't want to emulate windows, i just want to run a windows app Feb 02 10:50:01 johnx: is a port possible, do you think? Feb 02 10:50:11 even of an old version Feb 02 10:50:13 ok, well, that xref isn't perfect, but i hope people use it a bit Feb 02 10:50:22 i'll see about getting the fremantle sdk indexed this week too Feb 02 10:50:35 it requires me to find a script and make sure it still works Feb 02 10:50:44 genewitch, you can't port windows or run a windows app on an n8x0 without emulating an x86 processor Feb 02 10:50:52 and you can't 'port' an app unless you have source code Feb 02 10:51:11 Oh, that makes sense Feb 02 10:51:18 it's late Feb 02 10:51:49 help? Feb 02 10:52:11 dpkg-source: error: source package has two conflicting values - gtk20-l10n-enus1 and gtk20-l10n-enus Feb 02 10:52:16 johnx: did you happen to think of any reason i can't get calls when the screen is off, even though the machine is pingable? Feb 02 10:52:25 it doesn't even tell me i missed a call Feb 02 10:53:10 genewitch, ah, sorry I didn't see where you said the machine was pingable Feb 02 10:53:26 oh Feb 02 10:53:28 stupid me Feb 02 10:53:30 johnx: well, you're not my personal help desk rep, i didn't want to hound you Feb 02 10:54:14 hmm. are you talking about a SIP call? or gizmo? or skype? Feb 02 10:54:20 sip Feb 02 10:55:29 * timeless fixes changelogs Feb 02 10:56:07 hmm it appears to not be accepting calls at all now Feb 02 10:56:32 ah, well that's more consistent at least Feb 02 10:59:39 i'm gunna let it fall back asleep Feb 02 10:59:44 maybe it's a keepalive issue Feb 02 10:59:52 i changed it from 3600 to 360 Feb 02 11:01:14 * timeless wonders if there's some flag to make dpkg-buildpackage faster Feb 02 11:02:18 if you're running it the second time, rm build outside sbox to avoid the mysterious slowness Feb 02 11:02:28 johnx: it appears that the device going to sleep knocks me off the SIP network Feb 02 11:02:43 the second? er, as in, you've got a build tree that needs removing Feb 02 11:03:03 DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS=parallel=n is another Feb 02 11:03:04 i think i want --do-not-make-source-packages Feb 02 11:03:09 -b Feb 02 11:03:11 iirc Feb 02 11:03:12 i'm not using a scratchbox Feb 02 11:03:19 vmware + mer :) Feb 02 11:03:28 -b Specifies a binary-only build, no source files are to be built and/or Feb 02 11:04:04 * sp3000 fuds Feb 02 11:04:27 early for food? Feb 02 11:04:59 grrr i don't want to have to leave this on and plugged in all day just to receive calls. Feb 02 11:05:11 I got here for 10am for a mtg that turned out to be delayed, yay Feb 02 11:05:18 heh Feb 02 11:05:27 ok, i'll be @food in 15-20 Feb 02 11:10:29 genewitch, that's odd. I haven't played with SIP much but if you can ping the machine while the screen is off I don't see why you wouldn't be able to receive calls... Feb 02 11:34:41 johnx: it appears like my device is saying it's connected (and can make calls) but loses it's ability to receive calls after an arbitrary number of minutes Feb 02 11:35:10 genewitch, you might want to try disabling wifi power saving mode just so we can rule it out Feb 02 11:35:11 i just tested it again (it's plugged in and received a test call when i plugged it in) and it's not receiving again. i might have to call my voip company Feb 02 11:36:01 yes, definately disable power saving and see if that helps Feb 02 11:36:26 how? i've seen that before, but what panel is it in Feb 02 11:36:39 ~wifi-psm Feb 02 11:36:40 ~psm Feb 02 11:36:48 .. Feb 02 11:36:48 wifi-psm is probably http://wiki.maemo.org/Wifi_Power_Saving_Mode_(PSM) Feb 02 11:36:49 [psm] Personal Security Manager for Mozilla, at http://docs.iplanet.com/docs/manuals/psm/psm-mozilla/index.html. You don't need to restart mozilla as noted on that URL. It also consumes 100% CPU unfortunately... lame piece of software. no longer works as of mozilla 0.7, or needed for viewing of some login sites, i.e. yahoo. install by apt-get install mozilla-psm Feb 02 11:37:07 yeah, wifi-psm Feb 02 11:37:30 polluted bot-namespace :) Feb 02 11:38:48 ok Feb 02 11:39:11 testing now, plugged in and on Feb 02 11:39:33 remember to reconnect Feb 02 11:39:34 it rings and connects... Feb 02 11:39:36 good. Feb 02 11:40:00 i can close the internet phone app as long as the SIP light is on at the top, right? Feb 02 11:41:03 i'll leave it alone for a while and see what happens. Feb 02 11:43:11 Is there ANY MicroB extensions that does not consume 100% cpu? =) Feb 02 11:44:26 wmlbrowser? :) Feb 02 11:44:46 hehe Feb 02 11:45:06 qwerty: Got snowed in? =) Feb 02 11:45:24 Thankfully not but there sure as hell is a lot of snow :D Feb 02 11:45:40 Reminds me of the North :) Feb 02 11:46:19 * RST38h doesn't get this south-north distinction in UK. The whole place is a freaking island, and a small one, no? Feb 02 11:46:58 The north is the part where you don't want to go with horrible places like Manchester etc... :P Feb 02 11:47:02 Shouldn't it have the same weather (wet, temperate) across the whole place? Feb 02 11:47:13 RST38h: large difference between people in west/east/north/south dk too Feb 02 11:47:20 Sts: Weird Feb 02 11:47:40 accents, etc Feb 02 11:50:51 places in Norway, one could hear if a person is from up in the valley or some km down in the valley. Feb 02 11:51:50 <_berto_> that happens all over the world :) Feb 02 11:52:01 In .RU it usually means a different nationality Feb 02 11:52:45 or some obscure tribe Feb 02 11:52:49 * qwerty12 pukes as he sees a doc file uploaded to itT Feb 02 11:53:04 qwerty: Respond with .ppt! Feb 02 11:53:06 * RST38h hides Feb 02 11:53:10 hehe Feb 02 11:54:15 RST38h, really? no regional accents? Feb 02 11:54:57 johnx: mostly intonational and in sentence structure Feb 02 11:55:43 well, that's the definition of an accent, isn't it? Feb 02 11:55:45 johnx: about 70% of the population lives in the cities of 100k+ people Feb 02 11:56:03 about 92% of all statistics are made up Feb 02 11:56:11 still fails to receive calls after a while with PMS off Feb 02 11:56:23 this has to be a SIP keepalive issue Feb 02 11:56:32 johnx: well, if you want heavy accent, it has ot be pronounciation Feb 02 11:56:43 or dislexia Feb 02 11:57:32 johnx: Otherwise, you get something like Maryland accent - perfectly correct am. english with some intonation jumps Feb 02 11:57:48 crashanddie, dislexia is mostly about reading I think Feb 02 11:58:08 johnx: you are like you know...like wrong! =) Feb 02 11:58:13 RST38h, I see what you mean. and I assume no regional dialects? Feb 02 11:58:15 johnx: ever asked someone with dislexia to read a text and not think about the words he's saying? Feb 02 11:58:29 johnx: There are lots. Or HAVE BEEN Feb 02 11:58:40 johnx: I can assure you, it's funny as hell, and more over, one helluvan accent Feb 02 11:58:56 crashanddie, errr...but only when reading Feb 02 11:59:10 johnx: As population migrated to cities, most regional dialects have been lost Feb 02 11:59:25 erhm Feb 02 11:59:30 RST38h, that's quite interesting. When was the big move to cities? Feb 02 11:59:35 RST38h: you've never been in London, have you? Feb 02 11:59:37 crashanddie, please. I know a dyslexic person and he had to read the entire scene of Macbeth. The amount of mistakes I heard made me think I was listening to a remake. Feb 02 11:59:51 johnx: Started with industrialization and famine in 1920s Feb 02 12:00:09 johnx: Second wave happened after WWII Feb 02 12:00:21 crash: Nope, but I know what you mean =) Feb 02 12:00:40 RST38h: I can assure you there's more accents in London that any rural place I lived in Feb 02 12:00:57 RST38h, I always find it interesting when places have similar histories and still end up with strong regional accents/dialects... Feb 02 12:01:09 anyway, gotta run, food Feb 02 12:01:20 yes. run away from the food Feb 02 12:02:01 johnx: Well, there is at least one strong accent remaining in the south, but it is mostly of ukrainian descent Feb 02 12:02:45 johnx: Reset of the country is mostly preoccupied with stuff like"shawerma" (SpB) vs "shaurma" (Moscow) Feb 02 12:02:50 s/reset/rest Feb 02 12:05:22 hi, can i use windows maemo flash program to flash local image to n800 (downgrade os2008 to os 2007) Feb 02 12:05:31 yes Feb 02 12:05:42 thanks Feb 02 12:07:38 If you have a desktop or notebook computer and are aged between 25 and 55, there's nearly a one in five chance you have already bought a netbook. Feb 02 12:07:48 Crazy people. Feb 02 12:07:56 hehe Feb 02 12:08:22 RST38h, not everyone has $1500 to sink on an ultraportable Feb 02 12:08:35 yeah, it's working properly now Feb 02 12:08:46 i am going to attempt to turn the power saving back on Feb 02 12:08:57 i set "keepalive" to auto, 0 Feb 02 12:09:02 genewitch, yeah, that would be a good test Feb 02 12:09:03 it's working with the screen off now Feb 02 12:09:21 * b-man|grogy is suprised when he successfully compiles/builds several packages in ubuntu while maemo locks up and crashes on the same packages - and he's doing this under a full ubuntu-desktop env 0_o Feb 02 12:12:30 johnx: it appears to be working now! Feb 02 12:12:40 i have to call them tomorrow and find out what that is supposed to be set to Feb 02 12:13:07 johnx: So, instead they first sink $1000 on a budget laptop and then sink $400 on a netbook =) Feb 02 12:13:47 Oh noes, the netbook argument again. Feb 02 12:13:49 * Jaffa runs for the hills Feb 02 12:13:57 johnx: On the other hand, this defuses domestic conflicts over a computer :) Feb 02 12:14:01 RST38h, yes. and now they have a machine to leave at home (your average 15.4" notebook isn't really 'portable' in the strictest sense) and a portable machine. also provides redundancy Feb 02 12:15:00 though I think after another generation or two we'll see 10" "netbooks" being primary machines Feb 02 12:15:03 * RST38h never seen a point in those 15.4" monsters. Had a 14.1" laptop once, absolutely hated it Feb 02 12:15:25 johnx: BTW, can you actually run Studio .NET on a netbook? Feb 02 12:15:42 is it usable for development? Feb 02 12:15:50 RST38h, why would an everyday user want to do that? you're not the target demographic... Feb 02 12:16:13 RST38h, also, the 1st and 2nd question could be taken separately to great comedic effect :P Feb 02 12:16:17 johnx: It's a semipersonal question Feb 02 12:16:58 RST38h, 1) never used .NET, 2) I use windows only for games, so 3) I have no idea Feb 02 12:17:00 johnx: not going to develop on it personally, but have been asked if it is possible Feb 02 12:20:15 Found it: http://www.eeejournal.com/2009/01/intel-atom-n270-vs-via-nano-vs-core-2.html Feb 02 12:21:34 jeez. that's actually pretty respectable. close to a pentium M clock-for-clock Feb 02 12:22:17 johnx: the problem is that it is SpECint Feb 02 12:22:29 and specFP Feb 02 12:22:33 a very special kind of test. currently looking for more realistic stuff Feb 02 12:22:52 also: Is that taking advantage of both cores or not? Feb 02 12:23:05 one Feb 02 12:23:12 heh Feb 02 12:23:21 http://www.eeejournal.com/2008/05/eee-pc-vs-msi-wind-atom-vs-celeron-cpu.html Feb 02 12:23:39 Looks like it is not much worse than Pentium3M which is reassuring Feb 02 12:24:22 like I said: next generation or the one after that Feb 02 12:25:00 johnx: Next. Feb 02 12:25:40 johnx: Atl east, if the battery life is not a concern :) Feb 02 12:25:42 I think Intel is definitely capable of making a decent chip in that power envelope at that price, but will they really be willing to compete against themselves? Feb 02 12:25:44 Morning Feb 02 12:25:53 hi AndrewFBlack Feb 02 12:26:09 RST38h, heh. we already know that Average Joe doesn't actually think about battery life :) Feb 02 12:26:31 johnx: The only thing that matters is the margin Feb 02 12:26:48 RST38h: i think the resolution on a netbook is too low for visual studio Feb 02 12:26:52 RST38h, the margin is crap on the Atom, IIRC Feb 02 12:26:52 johnx: So, atom or no atom, if the margin is good... Feb 02 12:26:55 1024x600 doesn't cut it Feb 02 12:27:08 * RST38h uses 1024x768 notebook Feb 02 12:27:11 AndrewFBlack: most errorss shouuld be fixed now Feb 02 12:27:24 ok I'll give it a try Feb 02 12:27:40 * aquatix has 1280x800 thankfully, and even that is on the low side Feb 02 12:27:42 imho :) Feb 02 12:27:53 johnx: Well, I am legally unable to argue on this topic. Feb 02 12:28:26 RST38h, heh. forgot about that :) Feb 02 12:28:27 johnx: But let us just say that it is ok. Feb 02 12:29:00 My FN button quit working yesterday reflashed and it started working again Feb 02 12:29:07 RST38h, very interesting indeed :) Feb 02 12:31:58 I know most people don't use built in Map program but would it be possible to symlink the map directory to external so I can just plug in that card when I need the GPS Feb 02 12:32:33 AndrewFBlack, unless you format your internal card as ext2/3 you can't make symlinks on it Feb 02 12:32:53 qwerty12_N800: remember if it was easy to remove maemo-mappers libgpsbt dependancies? Feb 02 12:33:51 johnx well I'm considering using internal card for OS I almost never use GPS but I paid for subscription so I want to have it as an option without wasting almost a GB of space Feb 02 12:34:13 AndrewFBlack, yeah. that would be fine in that case Feb 02 12:34:14 Stskeeps, yeah, I just forced libgpsbt-dev to be installed but it detects whether libgpsbt is available during compile Feb 02 12:34:32 johnx, Thanks Feb 02 12:35:19 qwerty12_N800: intriguing:) Feb 02 12:42:25 Stskeeps, is 2GB internal card on N810 big enough for Mer? Feb 02 12:42:43 sure Feb 02 12:44:32 AndrewFBlack: yes Feb 02 12:44:53 we fill about 300mb unpacked i think Feb 02 12:46:15 Stskeeps, ok wanting to save my external card for Deblet I think because I'm getting to the point where I can't stand Hildon lol I'm killing to give up a little easy of operation for better looking sometimes Feb 02 12:46:46 Stskeeps, Also if you need a mirror for Mer I can set up on on Maemobox.org Feb 02 12:46:47 mm, dont nother with deblet if you plan to install it Feb 02 12:46:58 AndrewFBlack: k, will look at it Feb 02 12:47:11 why not? Feb 02 12:47:30 hi Feb 02 12:47:43 mer is deblet successor and im not working more on it Feb 02 12:47:49 ahh ok Feb 02 12:48:00 I thought you were keeping both Feb 02 12:48:02 b-mans ubuntu might be ok though Feb 02 12:48:15 yeah but install might still be a little hard for me Feb 02 12:48:23 ah - mer will be able to do same and more Feb 02 12:49:08 will we be able to use other desktop eviroments on Mer lol right now I've been using Maemo and using Easy Debian Lxde replacemnt all the time Feb 02 12:49:36 IMAP is better than POP3, right? Feb 02 12:49:48 i like imap better Feb 02 12:49:55 qwerty12_N800, so do I Feb 02 12:49:57 qwerty12_N800; yeah, although POP3's easier to talk for a human Feb 02 12:50:18 yes, theres a small bug with a transition package but besides that/. Feb 02 12:50:21 Good enough for me, thanks all :) Feb 02 12:55:05 johnx: was h-d-e a x-session-manager? Feb 02 12:58:18 is there a guide to getting video onto the n800 correctly? only some videos i use the internet tablet video converter for actually play, the others play for 4 seconds, then stutter out Feb 02 12:58:39 the stuff i get that is already mp4 SEEMS to work, but i don't have enough to verify Feb 02 12:58:54 genewitch: http://wiki.maemo.org/Video_encoding IRRC Feb 02 12:59:46 genewitch: Use Tablet Video Converter provided by Nokia Feb 02 12:59:57 genewitch: If you can't, just use mencoder Feb 02 13:00:45 Stskeeps, yes Feb 02 13:01:17 RST38h: i am using that, the videos it puts out stutter sometimes Feb 02 13:01:31 stskeeps? Feb 02 13:01:35 for your next release Feb 02 13:01:37 i should say, sometimes the videos it puts out are unplayable Feb 02 13:01:44 could you not ship y our .bash_history to every user? :) Feb 02 13:01:56 genewitch, are you using mplayer or the built in media player? Feb 02 13:02:03 timeless, was this the 770 image? Feb 02 13:02:11 no Feb 02 13:02:24 johnx: mplayer. should i use the built in for the pre-converted ones? Feb 02 13:02:26 this is the 0.7 pre that i got for n8x0 afaik Feb 02 13:02:34 timeless, first debian tar.gz I did I shipped some mp3s as well and my /etc/hostname O_o Feb 02 13:02:35 although, i could be wrong Feb 02 13:02:46 heh Feb 02 13:03:06 genewitch, I'm just asking because they work best with different settings. so if you are using Nokia's converter it works best with the built in player Feb 02 13:03:15 if you are using tablet-encode it works best with mplayer Feb 02 13:03:34 omg Feb 02 13:03:37 your fixed it Feb 02 13:03:41 you* Feb 02 13:04:05 johnx: can you check to see if that's still broken and add it to the "not to repeat" thing Feb 02 13:04:07 <3 Feb 02 13:04:12 oops, i think hildon-desktop crashed Feb 02 13:04:40 my coworker is not impressed Feb 02 13:05:32 timeless, checking Feb 02 13:05:49 johnx: that is totally awesome! the internet video converter is the first program i've used that even came close to actually converting the files for a mobile device, and now that all the files i converted work, it's awesome! Feb 02 13:06:09 genewitch, ah. good deal. you were using mplayer I take it? Feb 02 13:06:10 i have a PSP and a mini video player as well, and i could never get the converters to work properly Feb 02 13:06:24 johnx: yes, cause it was playing all the other files i had Feb 02 13:06:40 family guy stuff that i ripped for my PSP that the PSP balked at, for instance Feb 02 13:07:39 timeless, no .bash_history here on a fresh 0.7... Feb 02 13:07:52 i'm not sure it's bash history per se Feb 02 13:08:06 it was something w/ some apt repository stuff Feb 02 13:08:16 hmm? Feb 02 13:08:18 basically it was stuff i saw when i pressed in my xterm Feb 02 13:08:29 as root or user? Feb 02 13:08:39 user Feb 02 13:08:51 I'm really not seeing it here Feb 02 13:09:25 also, I'd be terribly curious if you could tell me what you were doing when h-d crashed... Feb 02 13:10:36 ah...hmmm...you used b-man's installer, didn't you? Feb 02 13:11:22 but the user gets created in f-b-w...so I really don't see how it would end up with a .bash_history or similar Feb 02 13:11:46 wtf@bash history Feb 02 13:12:06 do you guys know a cheap (~200$) way to get a n810, with shipment to france? In france it's still at ~330€ but amazon.com and stuff like that don't want to ship to .EU Feb 02 13:12:12 what user? Feb 02 13:12:30 Corsac_, get a friend in the US to ship it to you. :) Feb 02 13:12:47 and was it the vmdk? Feb 02 13:13:02 johnx: that's an idea, but if there was a direct way… Feb 02 13:14:30 * aquatix got it that way a year ago :) Feb 02 13:14:43 aquatix: eheh Feb 02 13:17:15 Corsac_: there are various services which will forward US mail, for exactly this purpose, too Feb 02 13:17:15 timeless, no clue, no .bash_histories in my actual images Feb 02 13:19:37 Jaffa: yeah but often distributosr refuse to ship to those address, don't they? Feb 02 13:21:00 * Jaffa dunnos - never tried them Feb 02 13:37:18 are there no more apps for Mer in the repositorys right now other then ones that come installed with it? Feb 02 13:37:55 AndrewFBlack, that's pretty much it right now Feb 02 13:38:01 ok Feb 02 13:38:24 AndrewFBlack: enable maemo.org Extras and see what works ;-) Feb 02 13:38:27 vim should. Feb 02 13:38:51 AndrewFBlack: try enable red pill and then activate "show all packages" :) Feb 02 13:39:27 (it might take a tiny bit of time to update the list and show it) Feb 02 13:40:25 hm, in mer 0.6 i couldn't find the appmgr :) Feb 02 13:41:10 aquatix: it's there in 0.7 now :) Feb 02 13:41:15 just grab the new VMDK Feb 02 13:41:16 k :) Feb 02 13:41:16 Stskeeps, Stiil not seeing anything Feb 02 13:41:20 will try later today Feb 02 13:41:23 at work now Feb 02 13:41:27 AndrewFBlack: are you connected to the net? Feb 02 13:41:58 Stskeeps, lol no Feb 02 13:42:02 AndrewFBlack: well then Feb 02 13:42:07 connect first, then start HAM Feb 02 13:42:12 (i was surprised too.) Feb 02 13:42:32 it will ask for connection when we have a proper libconic Feb 02 13:44:35 i kinda killed my mer, it's busy Feb 02 13:44:58 hehe, what are you doing to it? Feb 02 13:51:10 Meizirkki: re #4062, can you run it in terminal, and run 'merinstall' in /usr/libexec/mer (i think) Feb 02 13:51:15 Stskeeps, You had any trouble connected to a secure wireless network? Feb 02 13:51:22 Andrewblack: WPA2 works for me Feb 02 13:51:37 Stskeeps: yep Feb 02 13:51:49 Meizirkki: and then paste the error it generates into the bug Feb 02 13:51:57 Andrewblack: what kind of network? Feb 02 13:52:34 afternoon wazd :) Feb 02 13:52:35 wpa2 Feb 02 13:52:59 Authentication type is wpa-psk + wpa2-psk Feb 02 13:53:10 hm, works for me Feb 02 13:53:17 should i make it just wpa2-psk Feb 02 13:53:28 is it hidden SSID? Feb 02 13:53:32 no Feb 02 13:53:36 hello everyone) Feb 02 13:53:41 wpa2-psk i gues Feb 02 13:53:41 s Feb 02 13:57:28 Stskeeps:no errors Feb 02 13:57:32 it just dies Feb 02 13:57:45 Meizirkki: hmmm. Feb 02 13:58:07 Meizirkki: well, the last part of the terminal output then :) Feb 02 13:58:13 ! it didn't die now Feb 02 13:58:19 hmm Feb 02 13:59:22 i selected mmcblk0p4 for mer, then i selected the same partition for swap (it's my swap-partition usyally) and it didn't die Feb 02 13:59:34 hey, how do i reconfigure mer to speak en-US? Feb 02 14:00:27 timeless: well since we don't have other locales than en_GB for hildon, it gets boring :P but edit /usr/bin/start-hildon Feb 02 14:00:59 stskeeps: i wrote my own :) Feb 02 14:01:03 i'd like to use them Feb 02 14:01:29 hehe Feb 02 14:01:30 this is confusing Feb 02 14:01:45 Meizirkki: try make a walkthrough of what causes it to di Feb 02 14:01:45 e Feb 02 14:02:23 Stskeeps: got it Feb 02 14:02:40 it dies when it tries to write bootmenu for external card Feb 02 14:03:08 when i select partition from internal card, no problem Feb 02 14:03:23 k Feb 02 14:03:26 write in bug report Feb 02 14:03:31 ok Feb 02 14:03:32 then we can point b-man to it Feb 02 14:05:02 r2d2rogers: ping Feb 02 14:08:04 X-Fade: there's a white-page problem on wiki.maemo.org again btw Feb 02 14:08:32 Stskeeps: Yes, I've noticed that too.. Feb 02 14:09:32 wb AndrewFBlack Feb 02 14:10:25 thanks I dropped security on my network going to see if I can get connected now Feb 02 14:10:55 Stskeeps: i set bug status as NEW? Feb 02 14:11:13 connected now Feb 02 14:11:25 Meizirkki: yeah, sure Feb 02 14:11:30 I'll play with my network settings later and try to get my security back on Feb 02 14:11:32 okay Feb 02 14:12:43 Stskeeps: can you change status to NEW? i get "You tried to change the Status field from UNCONFIRMED to NEW , but only a sufficiently empowered user may change that field." Feb 02 14:13:10 Meizirkki: k, sure Feb 02 14:13:26 ok, thanks Feb 02 14:21:22 ok, 770 users: http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer/Releases/0.7#Nokia_770_-_tar.gz_image Feb 02 14:21:37 Stskeeps: pong, delay... I have a morning meeting on mondays, back in an hour or so Feb 02 14:21:51 r2d2rogers: alright Feb 02 14:22:03 r2d2rogers: verify the url just now afterwards if you can :) Feb 02 14:22:14 or when you have time :) Feb 02 14:56:46 .. what on earth is device_symbols.h doing in fontconfig Feb 02 14:57:09 just chillin' Feb 02 14:57:34 for maemo mapper? Feb 02 14:57:58 yeah Feb 02 14:58:14 you told me, i know, but still Feb 02 14:58:15 it's a big WTF Feb 02 14:59:02 yeah, I was doing the same when I compiled :) Feb 02 14:59:58 qwerty: ok, shall we try again? Feb 02 15:01:19 johnx: so... Feb 02 15:01:29 less repository.mer.tspre.org_dists_alpha_* Feb 02 15:01:32 is in my history Feb 02 15:01:33 timeless, may as well Feb 02 15:02:05 timeless, and what image is this? Feb 02 15:02:12 anyone know much about microb/X11 keymappings? Feb 02 15:02:17 johnx: actually , maybe it was some tab completion thing Feb 02 15:02:25 johnx: let's forget about it Feb 02 15:02:28 :) Feb 02 15:02:31 and presume i'm drunk :) Feb 02 15:02:36 we always do Feb 02 15:02:37 ;) Feb 02 15:02:44 I'm more curious about how h-d crashed Feb 02 15:02:58 prolly rotation Feb 02 15:03:32 johnx: i ran about 59 instances of dpkg-buildpackage Feb 02 15:03:35 oh, do i get core dumps? Feb 02 15:03:55 johnx: ok Feb 02 15:04:07 how about fixing /proc/sys/kernel/core_* Feb 02 15:04:18 a value of 'core' is not going to get useful feedback for why h-d crashed Feb 02 15:04:41 i think core dumps dump in /media/mmc2/core-dumps as usual Feb 02 15:04:56 stskeeps: it isn't set that way in my mer Feb 02 15:05:01 hmm Feb 02 15:05:10 in diablo kernel it is like that though Feb 02 15:06:19 can you verify w/ your mer that it isn't properly set? Feb 02 15:06:25 * timeless hates chasing ghosts Feb 02 15:07:22 Hi ... Feb 02 15:07:27 afternoon Feb 02 15:07:36 timeless, btw, select theme dialog says 'pers_fi_label' Feb 02 15:07:45 hrm, it wasn't supposed to Feb 02 15:07:49 i specifically translated that Feb 02 15:07:52 Is it possible to upgrade from maemo 0.6 to maemo 0.7 with apt-get dist-upgrade ? Feb 02 15:08:32 oh eww Feb 02 15:08:35 that's stupid Feb 02 15:08:40 ok, i guess i can't do that Feb 02 15:08:45 i tried to replace the string w/ "" Feb 02 15:08:51 because i didn't want it to show anything Feb 02 15:08:57 i guess that's not considered legal Feb 02 15:09:02 can i use " " instead? Feb 02 15:09:13 basically i felt that the label was totally useless and wanted to remove it Feb 02 15:09:20 yeah, i did that with battery applet fine Feb 02 15:09:22 http://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/mer-maemomapper.png Feb 02 15:09:34 arocs: you mean mer 0.6 Feb 02 15:09:39 ok, fixing locally Feb 02 15:09:51 sorry --- mer 0.6 to mer 0.7 .. ;) Feb 02 15:09:56 * johnx claps for Stskeeps Feb 02 15:10:23 will those message bubbles get smaller yet? Feb 02 15:10:40 arocs: no, sorry, docpurge really messes things up, but 0.7 doesnt use docpurge Feb 02 15:11:04 umm so i have to reinstall it ... Feb 02 15:11:28 arocs: yeah, doesn't take long Feb 02 15:11:35 0.7 won't need it so Feb 02 15:11:42 there it's mostly apt-get dist-upgrade Feb 02 15:15:11 I have created one partition about 4Gb , one of swap , and the rest for mer .. so i have to installed mer with not the default options .. Feb 02 15:15:22 fair enough, how did you install last time? Feb 02 15:15:30 qwerty: ok, regrab the zip file Feb 02 15:15:40 some stuff should be updated i hope Feb 02 15:15:47 with mer_installer .. and after i used gparted Feb 02 15:15:49 (like maybe you could actually install them!) Feb 02 15:16:12 timeless, ok :) Feb 02 15:16:52 arocs: just mkfs.ext3 your partition again, grab the tar.gz, tar pzvxf it on your partition, and chroot . passwd, to set root password Feb 02 15:20:15 hey, is modest available in mer? :) Feb 02 15:20:30 -- please don't ask me to talk to my mer, it's busy installing stuff -- at a snail's pace Feb 02 15:20:56 s/modest/claws-mail Feb 02 15:20:57 :) Feb 02 15:21:20 i don't actually want to use a mail client Feb 02 15:21:25 timeless, well, the fremantle level modest isn't publicly available Feb 02 15:21:27 i just want to test my translation Feb 02 15:21:34 i want the diablo one :) Feb 02 15:21:47 dunno, if anyone's gotten it working yet Feb 02 15:22:04 timeless: it depends on operator-wizard which we don't have :P Feb 02 15:22:22 "depends" or *depends*? Feb 02 15:22:31 ^ Feb 02 15:22:38 Depends: Feb 02 15:22:38 :P Feb 02 15:22:51 making a fake package for that is trivial Feb 02 15:22:53 prolly Feb 02 15:22:57 but not sure if it actually hooks into it Feb 02 15:23:01 Provides: operator-wizard Feb 02 15:23:14 Stskeeps, I'll take a look later Feb 02 15:23:24 timeless, no-go :(: http://pastebin.com/d7c075a2e Feb 02 15:24:37 * Stskeeps tries to put MM through ze builder Feb 02 15:26:09 did you delete the old debs? Feb 02 15:26:27 because it should have debs named *enus1* Feb 02 15:26:52 also, probably not a great idea to try to install forjx.zip Feb 02 15:26:57 it isn't a deb :) Feb 02 15:27:17 timeless, these are freshly grabbed ones from your site unzipped into a new folder Feb 02 15:27:31 I know, I did * out of laziness :) Feb 02 15:27:37 hrm, looks like something went wrong Feb 02 15:27:42 lemme figure out where Feb 02 15:28:35 ok, so the zip file i have in mer only contains enus1's Feb 02 15:29:43 qwerty12_N800: *.deb ;) Feb 02 15:30:25 ok, try again Feb 02 15:30:40 aquatix, i know ;). But like i said, * was out of laziness and i know a failed attempt to install a non deb file isn't gonna kill dpkg Feb 02 15:30:52 :) Feb 02 15:31:05 * aquatix did * once on a... big dir :) Feb 02 15:31:17 wasn't that pleased with the result ;) Feb 02 15:33:14 * Stskeeps ponders why not more apps use maemo-launcher in maemo really Feb 02 15:34:11 it can be a pita sometimes :/ but that said, I added it to epdfview recently without any problems Feb 02 15:34:23 mmm...pita Feb 02 15:34:29 hehe Feb 02 15:34:30 jesus, i haven't had pita for ages Feb 02 15:34:45 Stskeeps, I'd hope not... Feb 02 15:34:48 hmmm, pita Feb 02 15:35:00 Sts: Mostly because adding dbus service is cumbersome and badly explained Feb 02 15:35:26 Sts: and adding it just for the sake of having a little message box is kinda excessive Feb 02 15:35:37 RST38h, you don't need dbus service for maemo-launcher Feb 02 15:35:41 RST38h: ah, was thinking from performance pov Feb 02 15:35:43 is there a way to see what application is behind "that huge maemo-launcher in ps"? Feb 02 15:35:59 timeless, gtk20-l10n-enus1_0.1_all.deb & mediaplayer-legal-l10n-enus1_0.1_all.deb don't install but rest do Feb 02 15:36:15 hrm Feb 02 15:36:16 qwerty: Am I correct assuming that the maemo-launcher is what starts my app while displaying "XXX is starting" message? Feb 02 15:36:36 i'm pretty sure gtk20 worked in my mer... not sure about legal. i'll look Feb 02 15:36:36 Sts: From performance pov it hardly matters afaik Feb 02 15:36:38 RST38h: it is also a preloader, as in, using tricks to accelerate gtk bootup and such Feb 02 15:36:38 it's strange anyway Feb 02 15:37:02 Sts: It is pretty much like "performance gain" from having browserd - hardly noticeable Feb 02 15:37:19 RST38h, no, hildon-desktop does it when you have a dbus service name defined in desktop file regardless whether you use maemo-launcher Feb 02 15:37:32 qwerty: Ah Feb 02 15:37:52 RST38h: ah, when it comes to m-l im inclined to believe it helps, both in terms of shared memory and such :P but im prolly not the right person to discuss it with Feb 02 15:38:22 Sts: I can probably do the measurements, if we can come up with a clean test case Feb 02 15:38:35 so, i seem to hav elost hildon stuff Feb 02 15:38:37 * timeless wonders why Feb 02 15:42:02 the noip thing in applets is annoying and buggy Feb 02 15:42:36 hehe, homeip, you mean :P Feb 02 15:43:27 * Stskeeps doesn't mind it, needs to look at eth0 but besides that.. Feb 02 15:44:23 timeless: works good for me Feb 02 15:44:37 i'm using wifi-radar btw ;) Feb 02 15:44:41 lo yerga Feb 02 15:44:52 * qwerty12_N800 likes iphome applet but it doesn't support transparency Feb 02 15:44:54 Sts: I know for sure that Python preloader does not help with any of the large Python apps Feb 02 15:45:06 Hi! Feb 02 15:45:24 hey yerga Feb 02 15:45:43 It seems Mer development is going well Feb 02 15:45:56 yeah, but still a long way to go :P Feb 02 15:46:04 Kudos to all ;) Feb 02 15:46:10 yerga: thanks for Modest patches btw Feb 02 15:46:26 RST38h, you're welcome ;) Feb 02 15:46:44 it was simple changes to the UI Feb 02 15:46:57 yerga: i mostly hope that it shows the alternate approach to Maemo that the "maemo reconstructed" posts were about Feb 02 15:47:34 Hi there Feb 02 15:47:43 Jaffa: Ping? Feb 02 15:48:19 meiz: try in mer? Feb 02 15:48:39 timeless: think he is :) Feb 02 15:48:56 stskeeps: *shrug*, when we try dragging it, it runs to the bottom right corner Feb 02 15:48:58 and won't leave Feb 02 15:49:03 timeless: yeah, in the vmdk, i'm aware Feb 02 15:49:03 oh, and it only syas 'noip' Feb 02 15:49:10 which is hardly helpful Feb 02 15:49:24 it's cos it's 'eth0' which tablets don't usually have Feb 02 15:49:34 the bottom right corner is cos it relies on being in 800x480 i think Feb 02 15:49:45 it doesn't start there Feb 02 15:49:46 i'll poke khertan about it later Feb 02 15:50:01 each time i try to drag it a bit, it jumps quite a bit to the right+down Feb 02 15:50:04 timeless: yes i meant homeip in mer Feb 02 15:50:04 yeah Feb 02 15:50:11 doesn't do that in 800x480/on tablet Feb 02 15:50:31 does a port of irssi exist for Maemo ? Feb 02 15:50:40 timeless: it's a demo of that python-hildondesktop works Feb 02 15:50:43 zic: ssh+screen+irssi :) Feb 02 15:51:09 Zic, I've put one in extras-devel Feb 02 15:51:12 So, anyone have strong opinions about this whole election thing? Feb 02 15:51:23 timeless: it the method that I already use, but for hacking I need a localhost irssi Feb 02 15:51:25 ;) Feb 02 15:51:37 qwerty12_N800: ok, thanks! Feb 02 15:53:11 dneary: are we supposed to? Feb 02 15:53:15 qwerty12_N800: That sopwith game vrings back memories ;) Feb 02 15:53:21 *brings Feb 02 15:53:26 RST38h: No requirement, no Feb 02 15:53:40 RST38h: I don't want to have people be disenfranchised & disillusioned Feb 02 15:53:51 I mean the whole thing is pretty standard and not going to change much at this point Feb 02 15:53:58 RST38h: So if you think that any of the things we're discussing now do that, shout Feb 02 15:54:07 Now, if our good General were George Bush... :) Feb 02 15:54:38 if there's a craigslist ad for an n800 that says "item is locked and cannot be tested" what are the chances that i can just USB connect it and run a firmware update? Feb 02 15:54:45 X-Fade, I think you mean mikkov :) Feb 02 15:55:08 mikkov-the-unstoppable-porting-machine Feb 02 15:55:54 qwerty12_N800: Ah, well you two are uploading all kinds of cool stuff lately ;) Feb 02 15:56:07 * genewitch will be porting stuff soon too! Feb 02 15:56:18 timeless: earlier: kernel.core_pattern = /media/mmc1/core-dumps/%e-%s-%p.core Feb 02 15:56:20 X-Fade, :) Feb 02 15:56:46 genewitch, 100%. kind of suspicious that they're selling something they don't know the lock code to. Feb 02 15:56:50 stskeeps: in which file? Feb 02 15:56:54 timeless: sysctl Feb 02 15:57:09 it's from within kernel default i think Feb 02 15:57:17 (on N8x0) Feb 02 15:57:33 on my mer, it says kernel.core_pattern = core Feb 02 15:57:48 vmdk or tablet version? Feb 02 15:58:08 genewitch: I would just buy a new N810 off Amazon or buy.com Feb 02 15:58:09 i guess it was a vmdk Feb 02 15:58:24 timeless: then it's ubuntu standard i guess Feb 02 15:58:30 we dont use a special kernel for x86 so Feb 02 15:58:31 genewitch: Buying stuff from unknown people on the Net usually leads to a disappointment Feb 02 15:58:47 probably, but you should really just add a line to some part of the boot process which sets it Feb 02 15:58:50 any part will do Feb 02 15:59:05 yeah - adding to TODO Feb 02 15:59:33 RST38h, craigslist = local pickup Feb 02 15:59:58 johnx: yeah, it is suspicious. it's a good deal, i'm thinking about giving it a shot. i can always ebay for parts if it's DOA Feb 02 16:00:21 johnx: Ah, then add a scenario of him killing you, cutting you up, and serving as a dinner to other craigslist readers! =)~~ Feb 02 16:00:33 RST38h, delicious Feb 02 16:00:33 genewitch: you should verify it has battery inside and check it starts up. the only way it can be locked is through a devicelock message it will show Feb 02 16:00:41 johnx: yep. Feb 02 16:00:44 it's possible they got it legally and just couldn't be assed to learn about it. Feb 02 16:00:58 genewitch, I'm not suspicious about it working. I'm suspicious about how he came by it Feb 02 16:01:12 genewitch, is it shown as coming with anything? Feb 02 16:01:27 power supply and case Feb 02 16:01:38 lol...more than CompUSA gave me Feb 02 16:02:15 heh Feb 02 16:11:21 man, my shell company has a broken webVPS gateway Feb 02 16:11:37 It will only let me reinstall my server with centos, whereas i have ubuntu Feb 02 16:15:30 Stskeeps, you'll need to get microb's engine working before you get modest... Feb 02 16:15:59 qwerty12: lovely Feb 02 16:16:13 And a lot more than operator-wizard come think of it... Feb 02 16:16:38 sometimes it seems like maemo is put together with ducttape :) Feb 02 16:16:52 as in, loads Feb 02 16:16:53 libebook-dev libedataserver-dev libhildonnotify-dev libtinymail-1.0-0-dev libtinymail-camel-1.0-0-dev libtinymail-maemo-1.0-0-dev libtinymailui-1.0-0-dev libtinymail-gnomevfs-1.0-0-dev libtinymailui-gtk-1.0-0-dev wpeditor0 wpeditor-dev microb-engine-dev - the builddeps which cannot be resolved. The good thing is that all those are open sourced :) Feb 02 16:17:11 hehe Feb 02 16:17:23 someone hildonize claws.. :P :P Feb 02 16:17:32 * qwerty12 would personally recommend though to forget the buggy modest and get a proper client instead for Mer Feb 02 16:17:45 Stskeeps, technically, it is hildonized... Feb 02 16:18:18 someone in here mentioned that you can vmware "mer" Feb 02 16:18:18 claws ♥ Feb 02 16:18:28 is that a development environment? Feb 02 16:20:19 Stskeeps: nothing wrong with ducttape ;) Feb 02 16:20:27 erm, isn't claws already hildonized? Feb 02 16:21:47 genewitch, mer is a replacement distro for the tablet with it's own dev environment Feb 02 16:26:16 genewitch: yes, http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer/Releases/0.7#Generic_x86_-_VMDK_.28VMware_disk_image.29 , it is a disk image so just drag it into VMware Feb 02 16:26:23 guide is for virtualbox, feel free to make it for VMware Feb 02 16:26:59 (vmdk is a virtual disk image) Feb 02 16:27:18 aquatix: well, more touch friendly, then :P Feb 02 16:27:49 wiki pages for Mer are looking nice Feb 02 16:27:50 Stskeeps: I might have killed a card trying to format it in the 770 Feb 02 16:28:00 trying to get to the point of checking out the image Feb 02 16:28:04 r2d2rogers: k Feb 02 16:28:19 it was not due to the image though. Feb 02 16:28:34 hi Feb 02 16:28:56 anyone with bootmenu internals knowledge? Feb 02 16:29:25 slonopotamus: what do you need? Feb 02 16:29:38 who and where is supposed to mount devfs in root filesystem? Feb 02 16:29:48 slonopotamus: devfs? O_o Feb 02 16:30:02 slonopotamus: udev is doing that Feb 02 16:30:05 /dev Feb 02 16:30:08 anyone know much about microb/X11 keymappings? Feb 02 16:30:55 i managed to run text console. after doing pivot_root bootmenu runs init dev/console Feb 02 16:31:10 but there isn't dev/console! Feb 02 16:31:12 yes, there's a bunch of devices in /dev already Feb 02 16:31:17 debootstrap does this for us Feb 02 16:31:22 cp them from maemo maybe Feb 02 16:31:25 is the hildon environment in the screenshots included in the default .7 install? Feb 02 16:31:34 err... or i'm supposed to create it in my rootfs? Feb 02 16:32:02 freelikegnu: yes Feb 02 16:32:05 slonopotamus: yes Feb 02 16:32:10 Stskeeps, is it ok to cp it? Feb 02 16:32:13 slonopotamus: yes Feb 02 16:32:18 Stskeeps: claws-mail works quite ok for me already, but scrolling could be improved Feb 02 16:32:22 Stskeeps, it's some magic file Feb 02 16:32:31 slonopotamus, it's a device file Feb 02 16:32:35 use cp -a Feb 02 16:32:50 oh Feb 02 16:32:54 slonopotamus, until you start udevd you won't have automatically created device files Feb 02 16:33:06 k Feb 02 16:33:22 why it didn't use dev/console from initfs? Feb 02 16:33:32 cos it can't properly Feb 02 16:33:50 i mean you just did pivot_root right? Feb 02 16:34:14 and what's the point chrooting to / ? Feb 02 16:34:22 Stskeeps: cool.. I noticed the .8 sprint mention a modern kernel.. what is in .7 and is there a list of packages on the web? Feb 02 16:34:41 johnx, not me but bootmenu Feb 02 16:35:04 freelikegnu, the diablo kernel is used for .7 Feb 02 16:35:47 johnx, btw, there's a bug in bootmenu.conf from garage svn. it doesn't handle item_fbmode. that's why i couldn't run text console Feb 02 16:35:48 freelikegnu, right now we have a couple user level maemo packages repacked and a large part of ubuntu is installable Feb 02 16:35:53 on my n810, in platformHTMLBindings.xml i've changed page up and down to the zoom buttons (VK_F7,8), but now i need it to stop zooming in and out. removing viewZoomOverlay.js didn't help. any ideas? Feb 02 16:36:14 ok, created dev/console, gone for reboot Feb 02 16:36:22 wish me luck :) Feb 02 16:37:41 johnx: wow Feb 02 16:40:25 freelikegnu: we use diablo kernel atm Feb 02 16:41:10 Stskeeps: thanks Feb 02 16:48:31 someone snaked that n800 from me Feb 02 16:48:35 lucky ducks Feb 02 16:48:57 so i'm on the prowl for another one Feb 02 16:50:43 what was the price for that N800? Feb 02 16:54:38 Stskeeps, tell me your magic. What did you do so fsck can run at os boot? mine can't, says 'device busy', even if i mount it in readonly mode Feb 02 16:54:58 it almost boots :) Feb 02 16:55:18 * slonopotamus almost rocks Feb 02 16:55:22 johnx: $43 Feb 02 16:55:32 * johnx blinks Feb 02 16:55:33 wow Feb 02 16:55:34 picture showed front and back, no physical damage Feb 02 16:55:41 shit, to think I paid £180 for mine :( Feb 02 16:55:48 i paid $160 for mine last week Feb 02 16:56:01 qwerty12, but you've gotten more than a year out of it already Feb 02 16:56:08 genewitch, you're looking for a spare? Feb 02 16:56:15 johnx: one for my girlfriend Feb 02 16:56:20 ahaha Feb 02 16:56:25 johnx, indeed, I know I can't complain now but regrets all the same :) Feb 02 16:56:26 for her birthday that's rapidly approaching Feb 02 16:56:27 give her yours and get an n810 :D Feb 02 16:57:01 is there any difference other than the keyboard Feb 02 16:57:06 ~bitchslap cron Feb 02 16:57:06 * infobot beats the sh*t out of cron Feb 02 16:57:33 transflective screen, gps, 2GB SD card soldered in Feb 02 16:57:44 but only 1 miniSDHC slot Feb 02 16:57:58 ~ping Stskeeps Feb 02 16:57:59 pong Stskeeps Feb 02 16:58:04 mine's using a 2gig internal and 8gig sdhc Feb 02 16:58:27 * lcuk isnt looking forward to the drive home Feb 02 16:58:29 transflective screen i'll look up, but gps sounds good, both my gps receivers have died Feb 02 16:59:01 johnx, you use modified bootmenu for mer? Feb 02 16:59:20 slonopotamus, we use the bootmenu from fanoush's svn Feb 02 16:59:41 johnx, from garage? Feb 02 16:59:45 genewitch, gps sounds good. apparently it can be rather slow to lock in some conditions Feb 02 16:59:53 slonopotamus, errr...i dunno honestly Feb 02 17:00:45 ~curse the guy who decided to fork bootmenus Feb 02 17:00:46 May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, the guy who decided to fork bootmenus ! Feb 02 17:00:56 hehe. i love it Feb 02 17:01:06 johnx: so not so good for geocaching. Feb 02 17:01:26 genewitch, well, some people say it works great. some people say it takes hours to get a lock Feb 02 17:01:30 I have an n800 Feb 02 17:02:04 slonopotamus, fanoush's bootmenu is the one everyone uses. we just use an unreleased version Feb 02 17:03:40 johnx, i don't believe you use version from svn, because it's broken. it doesn't handle neither ITEM_LINUXRC nor ITEM_FBMODE correctly Feb 02 17:04:11 Why can't the svn version be broken? Feb 02 17:04:23 slonopotamus, let me find what we use. one sec Feb 02 17:04:51 Jaffa, it can. but it means that mer uses something different Feb 02 17:05:24 slonopotamus: ah, so you've built your own version from svn and are having additional problems? Have there been any commits since the mer version was built? Feb 02 17:07:13 Jaffa, yep, it has bugs. don't know what they used. maybe somebody should vote on making a release Feb 02 17:07:38 slonopotamus, I didn't say 'trunk' I said 'svn' Feb 02 17:07:40 Don't talk to me about votes ;-) Feb 02 17:07:46 did you check the tagged branch available? Feb 02 17:08:04 'vote on making a release'? what does that mean? Feb 02 17:08:16 Jaffa, why? Feb 02 17:08:35 johnx, making a release of bootmenu. Feb 02 17:08:45 slonopotamus: see maemo-community Feb 02 17:09:01 johnx, nope, i saw that trunk was more fresh and used it Feb 02 17:09:18 johnx, actually i can't remember :) Feb 02 17:09:27 slonopotamus, did you see that the tag bootmenu_0_1 was committed by stskeeps? :) Feb 02 17:09:29 johnx, something made me to use trunk Feb 02 17:09:48 johnx, yep, very long time ago as i recall Feb 02 17:10:26 * slonopotamus is low on battery. Feb 02 17:10:53 * slonopotamus and on gprs money :) Feb 02 17:11:11 * slonopotamus wonders what will end ffirst Feb 02 17:12:15 johnx, will try it. Feb 02 17:12:22 slonopotamus, actually, hang on Feb 02 17:12:27 that doesn't quite look right either Feb 02 17:12:36 * slonopotamus hang Feb 02 17:12:50 johnx, what 'that'? Feb 02 17:12:52 but you say that trunk doesn't work right? Feb 02 17:13:06 version 1.4? Feb 02 17:13:22 johnx, 1.4??? revision 50 Feb 02 17:13:24 svn Feb 02 17:13:44 yeah, in debian/changelog it says 1.4, but yeah Feb 02 17:13:55 johnx, https://garage.maemo.org/svn/bootmenu/trunk/bootmenu Feb 02 17:13:56 you might want to pull from the last time debian/changelog was updated Feb 02 17:14:24 # svn up Feb 02 17:14:36 Fatal: no entropy gathering module detected Feb 02 17:14:41 loool :) Feb 02 17:16:32 johnx, i'm using latest trunk revision (50). and it has broken fbmode and no linuxrc support Feb 02 17:16:45 you might want to pull from the last time debian/changelog was updated Feb 02 17:17:11 which is to say, revision 47, the last one that stskeeps committed Feb 02 17:17:17 what does 'pull from the last time' mean? Feb 02 17:17:24 k Feb 02 17:21:06 slonopotamus: eh, bootmenu svn is the correct one, but i had to do some quick changes when i put it out (nothing fatal) Feb 02 17:21:16 as in, /trunk Feb 02 17:21:41 http://packages.tspre.org/pool/user/b/bootmenu/ has the source Feb 02 17:21:50 FBMODE i've never seen working :) Feb 02 17:21:56 that's what i said :) you're using something different to svn Feb 02 17:21:59 hmm Feb 02 17:25:31 Stskeeps: image booted fine, will check out wiki for issues logging Feb 02 17:26:02 r2d2rogers: k Feb 02 17:26:09 didn't try the linked bootmenu installer, but shouldn't you press the 'menu' key intead of home for getting the advance boot menu? Feb 02 17:26:14 true Feb 02 17:26:23 feel free to edit wiki :) Feb 02 17:26:27 wilco Feb 02 17:26:50 other instructions looked good Feb 02 17:26:59 card is fine BTW, had to reboot 770 Feb 02 17:27:13 good Feb 02 17:28:53 I like the modular page edits... wiki is looking nice Feb 02 17:29:15 how was the non-swap using 770 btw? did it crash pre-first-boot-wizard or? Feb 02 17:29:24 * freelikegnu installs Mer .7 Feb 02 17:29:50 freelikegnu: gluck Feb 02 17:30:02 which platform per chance? x86, 770, n8x0? Feb 02 17:30:08 n800 Feb 02 17:30:09 k Feb 02 17:30:19 from latest diablo Feb 02 17:30:39 Stskeeps: nope did great, prompted for the swap and just did fine Feb 02 17:30:44 what is the uneeded extra stuff btw? Feb 02 17:31:16 freelikegnu: testing stuff in initfs Feb 02 17:31:23 hi, whenever i try to donwnload anything with my brower, like.pdf it will go to this webpage with all these wierd letters and characters, pls help Feb 02 17:31:36 i believe they probably just reflash initfs, but noone has really understood what it does Feb 02 17:32:12 aba4i7, it likely means the server doesn't have their mime-type set correctly. tap and hold on the link and select 'safe file' Feb 02 17:33:35 johnx I will go try...though tap and hold has not been very kind to me lately Feb 02 17:34:15 r2d2rogers: i will disable the fstab part of swap partition in imager then Feb 02 17:35:08 as it will ask when it finds one Feb 02 17:37:05 r2d2rogers: i will try and make a working wifi driver for you based on the patches i can find around Feb 02 17:38:44 oh my fucking god))) Feb 02 17:38:46 http://ru.youtube.com/watch?v=4cDkuJyAuXM Feb 02 17:38:57 Microsoft is fricking genious :D Feb 02 17:38:58 lol cancelling in the begining of mer install is a bit rough :D Feb 02 17:39:14 mer advanced install I mean Feb 02 17:39:30 wazd: interesting uses of your wallpaper? Feb 02 17:39:33 freelikegnu: hehe, patches welcome Feb 02 17:40:04 * freelikegnu goes for simple install option this time Feb 02 17:40:14 r2d2rogers: fstab: sounds good here Feb 02 17:40:23 lol at myself Feb 02 17:40:30 Stskeeps: fstab: sounds good Feb 02 17:40:33 k Feb 02 17:40:34 Stskeeps: nah, intersting uses of MS Songsamith :) Feb 02 17:40:42 Stskeeps: awesome, thanks Feb 02 17:41:31 after 5 years of use i discover putty's alt-mark text working with squares instead of lines.. Feb 02 17:42:38 heh Feb 02 17:54:47 I like the bbl Feb 02 17:54:53 er just bbl Feb 02 17:56:36 * Stskeeps sighs and finds material to defuse a new post that misunderstood some things Feb 02 17:56:54 hmm? Feb 02 17:57:31 in the mer .7 thread? Feb 02 17:57:38 yeah Feb 02 17:57:40 * Jaffa not been helping, perhaps Feb 02 17:57:56 ah, no, not you, q's Feb 02 17:58:55 * johnx sighs Feb 02 18:00:26 Ah, I see. Feb 02 18:11:43 ok Feb 02 18:11:44 http://internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=261584&postcount=20 Feb 02 18:12:02 * lcuk relaxes a little Feb 02 18:13:53 johnx: btw, the justifications is my own, just to make things easier on the lawyers Feb 02 18:13:58 and see why this is needed Feb 02 18:14:09 Stskeeps, editing a bit... Feb 02 18:14:10 it makes it easier to swallow :P Feb 02 18:14:11 k Feb 02 18:15:16 anyhow the thread is totally destroyed by now :P no ordinary users will dare to go into that thread now :) Feb 02 18:15:41 Extraordinary users FTW! Feb 02 18:15:53 it would be nice to moderate postings within threads to experience/techincal level Feb 02 18:16:05 (like slash does with its mod types) Feb 02 18:16:18 then users can come and just see the nice stuff Feb 02 18:20:08 Stskeeps, got correct bootmenu. now tell me, how you manage to pass fsck :) Feb 02 18:20:37 slonopotamus_: when do you boot udev? before or after fsck check? Feb 02 18:21:01 Stskeeps, before. Feb 02 18:21:49 k. you see the boot-basics script in nit-bootmenu-compat of Mer? there's a reason we have a fsck check there. for some f*cked up reason, udev has a hold on the block device, in the dka Feb 02 18:21:53 diablo kernel Feb 02 18:22:13 which causes it to say device busy or whatever Feb 02 18:22:36 hmm. how linux on normal devices work? Feb 02 18:22:36 boot-basics must be run -before- udev runs, and the pass value for rootfs should be 0 in fstab Feb 02 18:22:42 in a sane way Feb 02 18:22:53 this is a specific diablo-kernel tablet trick Feb 02 18:23:08 we called it the fucking fsck bug in deblet Feb 02 18:23:20 oh Feb 02 18:23:22 as it destroyed an install totally :) Feb 02 18:23:36 what install? Feb 02 18:24:19 well, a fs, as in, made it unbootable Feb 02 18:24:58 Hi there Feb 02 18:25:01 evening Feb 02 18:25:25 Stskeeps, tried kernel with patches from muru? Feb 02 18:25:49 slonopotamus_: not lately, but there's a task for it on Mer sprint list Feb 02 18:25:57 i am not a kernel hacker. Feb 02 18:26:26 Stskeeps, cool. please, tell me, if there'll be any progress with it. Feb 02 18:26:36 slonopotamus_: you're more than welcome to contribute :) Feb 02 18:26:47 we will hopefully use same kernel for mer and gentoo, so Feb 02 18:26:52 Stskeeps, that guy from nosocomia used muru kernel to boot gentoo Feb 02 18:27:14 Stskeeps, i'm not a kernel guy either :) Feb 02 18:27:54 * johnx starves Feb 02 18:28:02 * Stskeeps passes johnx some noodles Feb 02 18:28:17 ah! good idea Feb 02 18:28:22 * johnx looks for some instant noodles Feb 02 18:28:51 Stskeeps, i don't like that muru patches didn't go upstream, to linux-omap. and their patches didn't go upstream, to linux itself. this patch-on-patch thing is very fragile and abandon-friendly Feb 02 18:28:58 you are about to consume some noodles: cancel or allow Feb 02 18:29:37 slonopotamus_: yeah.. some things sometimes Feb 02 18:30:25 Stskeeps, actually i can say the same thing about many maemo packages :) Feb 02 18:30:56 slonopotamus_: yeah.. :P things would be better with distributed scm prolly Feb 02 18:31:22 just goin for tea, johnx, something just occured to me: if i were to position liqbase as an x11 server could i theoretically create fast windows? Feb 02 18:31:31 .. Feb 02 18:31:39 ... Feb 02 18:31:59 lcuk: genuinely crazy, now with your own graphics system? ;) (been there ..) :P Feb 02 18:34:07 Stskeeps, about fsck. looks like i just need to set passno to 0 in fstab and gentoo'll be happy. gone for reboot, trying it Feb 02 18:35:08 lcuk, an x server is not exactly a small task, but yes. make one for the Xscale 270 integrated framebuffer as well :) Feb 02 18:40:39 oh my, oh my! Feb 02 18:40:43 it booted! Feb 02 18:40:48 :) Feb 02 18:40:55 nice. got a shell? Feb 02 18:41:15 got login/password prompt ;) Feb 02 18:42:02 nice. did you remember to enable host mode and grab your usb keyboard? Feb 02 18:42:09 it said it couldn't init random number generator and couldn't sync clock Feb 02 18:42:10 Stskeeps: where can I get Mer installer? Feb 02 18:42:36 johnx, no female-female connector Feb 02 18:43:12 what about male-male? ;P Feb 02 18:43:17 johnx, don't have any idea where to find it. too rare thing Feb 02 18:43:19 then use an extension cord Feb 02 18:43:22 usb keyboard work? Feb 02 18:43:28 AStorm, o_O Feb 02 18:43:40 usb keywords work on nokia n800? Feb 02 18:44:05 slonopotamus: the trick is that you still want to connect a hub Feb 02 18:44:25 which will may have a female connector Feb 02 18:44:32 (find one with this) Feb 02 18:45:16 * slonopotamus imagines himself in subway with tablet, usb hub and usb keyboard. Feb 02 18:45:26 no, what for? Feb 02 18:45:34 n810 has a good enough keyboard for that Feb 02 18:45:42 n800 here Feb 02 18:45:48 and you could use a bluetooth keyboard instead I think Feb 02 18:46:00 bluetooth is expensi9ve ;p Feb 02 18:46:13 oh right Feb 02 18:46:18 AStorm, it's a little tough to get that up before you even have a GUI running :P Feb 02 18:46:20 and a powered usb hub is not? Feb 02 18:46:30 johnx: I have some time Feb 02 18:46:31 you need a powered usb hub? Feb 02 18:46:39 hmm... bluetooth... Stskeeps, is it hard to make bt keyboard to work? Feb 02 18:46:49 according to tabletschool blog i just need a female to female adapter Feb 02 18:47:10 AStorm, ah, sorry, I mean it's tough to get a tablet paired with a bt keyboard before you have a GUI running :) Feb 02 18:47:20 AStorm, mer on the other hand is really easy ;D Feb 02 18:47:35 johnx: is mer functional enough yet? Feb 02 18:47:36 slonopotamus, not once you're in X Feb 02 18:47:37 slonopotamus: no, it should work out-of-the-box Feb 02 18:47:46 zakkm, functional enough for what? Feb 02 18:47:53 daily usage Feb 02 18:47:56 even in console it's possible Feb 02 18:47:57 nondev Feb 02 18:48:02 zakkm, nope Feb 02 18:48:04 of course, you need a shell to set it up Feb 02 18:48:08 ;P Feb 02 18:48:29 AStorm, right, you need a keyboard :P Feb 02 18:48:43 i can prepare it in chroot :P Feb 02 18:48:48 yes Feb 02 18:49:00 but on n800 you're usually not spending any time in console Feb 02 18:49:22 and reboot, reboot :) Feb 02 18:49:30 AStorm, unless you're trying to install gentoo :) Feb 02 18:49:39 johnx, Stskeeps certainly not after doing it (I know nothing about x11) Feb 02 18:49:42 gentoo pwns :D Feb 02 18:49:57 johnx: I may, but not necessarily at once Feb 02 18:50:00 johnx, well, it kinda works :) Feb 02 18:50:00 hi, anyone know what i have to do to kill the connection manager (the symbol with the wifi icon) that appears at status-bar Feb 02 18:50:01 ? Feb 02 18:50:11 but at least knowing that the server side only is half the work is good Feb 02 18:50:15 any help really appreciate Feb 02 18:50:41 StOrM_NW, why are you trying to do that (it's a little tricky) Feb 02 18:50:54 it will be hard to test x from chroot, i guess Feb 02 18:51:21 i m trying to change the characteristics of the wlan0 ... i m trying to change the mode to ad-hoc Feb 02 18:51:40 1. keyboard. 2. usbnet. 3. wifi. 4. bluetooth. 5. x. need to choose some order :) Feb 02 18:51:53 StOrM_NW: uh, standard driver doesn't support wireless extensions well if at all Feb 02 18:51:54 and i m thinking that it is changing it back to managed mode Feb 02 18:51:58 you need the new one, cx3310x Feb 02 18:52:10 StOrM_NW, couldnt you just use the UI for setting up a connection type (I use wifi adhoc) Feb 02 18:52:13 that's actually the daemon doing it Feb 02 18:52:15 StOrM_NW, why not use connection manage to change mode to ad-hoc? Feb 02 18:52:15 yes, use the UI Feb 02 18:53:01 you can setup multiple connections and choose which you want Feb 02 18:53:18 because we are trying to run an own application that creates a mesh network using ad-hoc mode Feb 02 18:53:41 cool. Feb 02 18:53:44 so the connection manager is changing the behavior of it Feb 02 18:54:07 storm, break the problem down then - get the software to create its own connection profile, then connect using that profile Feb 02 18:54:57 * lcuk has a mini mesh net wherever he goes Feb 02 18:55:03 :) Feb 02 18:55:24 or i can do it really faster killing the application ... i think its better than rewrite the code to do this profile ... the application is running on openmoko too ... so i guess its more fast to kill the application and control the wlan0 using the wireless-tools by my own Feb 02 18:56:08 what the name of the application that control the connetion? Feb 02 18:56:19 StOrM_NW, did you have a look in the scripts in /etc/init.d ? Feb 02 18:56:19 and where can i get this new drivers? Feb 02 18:56:27 I'll look for you in a second though Feb 02 18:56:47 a driver with better WE support is available in the mer repo Feb 02 18:56:50 one sec Feb 02 18:57:34 libconic isnt it Feb 02 18:57:48 ah, it's icd Feb 02 18:57:51 dunno the process name Feb 02 18:58:32 johnx, gimme please link to mer bootmenu once more. lost it at reboot Feb 02 18:59:04 slonopotamus, you should start keeping IRC logs :) Feb 02 18:59:14 uh... sorry Feb 02 18:59:50 http://packages.tspre.org/pool/user/b/bootmenu/ Feb 02 19:00:09 found Feb 02 19:00:15 StOrM_NW, /etc/init.d/icd2 Feb 02 19:00:27 StOrM_NW, that's the init script for the connection manager Feb 02 19:01:05 johnx, why you have repository.t.o and packages.t.o? Feb 02 19:01:23 the icon is still there Feb 02 19:01:36 johnx, it seems to be dead Feb 02 19:01:45 slonopotamus, don't ask me :P it's based on when Stskeeps was doing something Feb 02 19:01:47 AStorm: http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer/Releases/0.7#Released_files_and_guides Feb 02 19:01:48 hmm. Feb 02 19:01:48 slonopotamus, what's dead? Feb 02 19:01:52 nope, just slow Feb 02 19:02:15 1.4 or 1.5-1? Feb 02 19:02:19 StOrM_NW, did you just run that command? or did you kill the process it starts? Feb 02 19:02:51 johnx, all ok Feb 02 19:02:59 rootsh /etc/init.d/icd2 stop? Feb 02 19:03:25 StOrM_NW, did that run without errors? Feb 02 19:03:34 evening roope Feb 02 19:03:39 yep Feb 02 19:03:44 lo roope Feb 02 19:03:46 Stskeeps: any gotchas? Feb 02 19:03:51 but the icon is still ther Feb 02 19:03:53 ther Feb 02 19:03:54 there Feb 02 19:04:02 StOrM_NW, yeah, but it shouldn't do anything anymore Feb 02 19:04:31 StOrM_NW, the connection manager has a daemon process and a statusbar applet Feb 02 19:04:39 ah ok, i m going to try to run the application right now Feb 02 19:04:40 ah ok Feb 02 19:04:45 AStorm: all listed in the page under "known issues" and "advanced install" is a bit buggy Feb 02 19:04:55 and can ya provide me the mer repository url? Feb 02 19:04:57 simple install should be good, and clone-to-SD is more problematic Feb 02 19:05:07 i really appreciate the help Feb 02 19:05:47 StOrM_NW, ah sorry. totally forgot :) http://repository.mer.tspre.org/pool/main/c/cx3110x-module-src/ Feb 02 19:05:53 really thanks Feb 02 19:05:57 Stskeeps, johnx, guys, you rock. without you i wouldn't have such progress Feb 02 19:06:02 Stskeeps: what about running it on the device for hardcore people? Feb 02 19:06:23 AStorm: scroll down.. Feb 02 19:06:30 slonopotamus, we're all standing awkwardly on the shoulders of giants :) Feb 02 19:06:59 Stskeeps: so, it should work it seems, excellent Feb 02 19:07:24 AStorm: mer 0.7 runs on my tablet without funny tricks, so :P Feb 02 19:07:51 AStorm: still working on a rootfs version through (direct boot, no initfs) Feb 02 19:07:55 the kernel is the same 2.6.21? Feb 02 19:08:07 yeah Feb 02 19:08:13 we use bootmenu (atm) Feb 02 19:08:19 we will love people trying more modern kernels though Feb 02 19:08:20 I'd love a nice and new latest release of linux-omap Feb 02 19:08:36 i just don't have the head for those experiments Feb 02 19:08:39 the problem is that I'll need a rebuild of xorg-video-omapfb or equivalent Feb 02 19:08:48 with new kernel headers Feb 02 19:08:58 sure? Feb 02 19:09:08 we use same omapfb on 770 and n8x0 Feb 02 19:09:16 very much, last time it croaked Feb 02 19:09:21 some numbers have changed Feb 02 19:09:25 k Feb 02 19:09:33 splendid Feb 02 19:11:05 AStorm: fairly easy to recompile though Feb 02 19:11:23 AStorm: honestly though i think we may be compiling towards modern kernel headers.. Feb 02 19:11:23 ~ping Feb 02 19:11:24 ~pong Feb 02 19:12:05 ~pong Feb 02 19:12:06 ~ping Feb 02 19:12:19 AStorm: http://trac.tspre.org:8000/xserver-xorg-video-omapfb_jaunty-armel-1229682706.log Feb 02 19:12:20 ~infobot Feb 02 19:12:21 i heard infobot is me. I love abuse, feed me!, or an interactive bot that can learn all sorts of information (http://www.infobot.org/), or updated sources at http://infobot.sf.net/, or a robot that doesn't know it should only speak when spoken to, or on fire, or awesome. Feb 02 19:12:35 :) Feb 02 19:12:58 Get:4 http://cfph.pervasivehealthcare.dk jaunty/main linux-libc-dev 2.6.28-2.3 [667kB Feb 02 19:13:01 is what it is built for Feb 02 19:13:06 and works on older kernels it seems Feb 02 19:13:22 mmh good Feb 02 19:13:31 it might work with 2.6.28-omap too Feb 02 19:14:08 Stskeeps, tell me, do you have a cleanup policy for r.t.o? Feb 02 19:14:23 slonopotamus: hm? Feb 02 19:14:38 Stskeeps, should i make a backup copy of packages i use from there or not? Feb 02 19:14:46 slonopotamus: yes, you ought to Feb 02 19:15:01 but really, use our bzr branches for Mer instead Feb 02 19:15:04 they're more updated Feb 02 19:15:24 http://code.launchpad.net/m-r Feb 02 19:15:52 Stskeeps: now, I should refresh my deb packaging skills and help you guys out Feb 02 19:16:04 but first, finish a certain document (tedium) Feb 02 19:16:11 * slonopotamus experiences some network troubles Feb 02 19:16:13 AStorm: more than welcome to help Feb 02 19:17:02 finish the doc, show the project to the lab chief, wreak havoc ;) Feb 02 19:18:15 Stskeeps, i need tarballs to write ebuilds Feb 02 19:18:57 slonopotamus: ah. Feb 02 19:19:08 Stskeeps, and too lazy to repackage them once again :) Feb 02 19:19:10 slonopotamus: then yes, mirror them somewhere Feb 02 19:19:54 Stskeeps, k. do you have rsync or something like that? i could setup a mirror. Feb 02 19:20:38 well, i am only going to update 'installer' dist of repository.tspre.org Feb 02 19:20:46 but you may want to wget -r it for safekeeping Feb 02 19:21:04 wait, p.t.o or r.t.o? Feb 02 19:21:22 (packages.tspre.org or repository.mer.tspre.org) Feb 02 19:21:46 Stskeeps, r.t.o. i'm very interested in pool Feb 02 19:22:07 hmm Feb 02 19:22:09 mm - that one is very fast pace and the policy is to erase old version when new one comes in Feb 02 19:22:20 what the heck is p.t.o? Feb 02 19:22:26 deblet's repo Feb 02 19:22:56 deblet is abandoned, isn't it? Feb 02 19:23:03 yeah, but doesn't mean i don't keep the packages up :P Feb 02 19:23:17 however bootmenu is there and not in r.t.o Feb 02 19:23:31 yeah, cos i had bootmenu there already and needed stuff :P Feb 02 19:23:40 cheater Feb 02 19:23:48 bootmenu is (hopefully) moving to extras-devel either in 0.8 or 0.9 Feb 02 19:24:29 i simply need permalink to source tarball :) Feb 02 19:24:40 hehe Feb 02 19:24:48 not sure how easy that is :) Feb 02 19:24:53 slonopotamus, why not check out a set bzr revision and tar it up? Feb 02 19:25:05 aka use launchpad's bandwidth not ours :P Feb 02 19:25:14 johnx, you did that already :) Feb 02 19:25:50 heh. well it's just going to cause you headaches if old versions disappear... Feb 02 19:26:12 ok, i'll mirror stuff that i use Feb 02 19:26:17 I mean there's no way that gentoo can keep up with the development pace of a debian-based distro ... Feb 02 19:26:19 * johnx runs Feb 02 19:26:52 you should put bootmenu tarball to garage and be happy Feb 02 19:27:11 * GeneralAntilles sits down wearily. Feb 02 19:27:24 * slonopotamus hacks. Feb 02 19:27:31 GeneralAntilles: long day? Feb 02 19:27:33 I'm quite happy :) just got my xserver-kdrive package done for zubuntu :) Feb 02 19:27:45 johnx: or MerZ? ;> Feb 02 19:27:49 Jaffa, got caught in Superbowl traffic on the way home and missed class. Feb 02 19:27:52 poke Omegamoon. I'll have some packages for you tomorrow :) Feb 02 19:28:02 GeneralAntilles: ah Feb 02 19:28:12 Jaffa, lots of RVs. ;) Feb 02 19:28:13 Stskeeps, Zer? maurus? Feb 02 19:28:42 GeneralAntilles, RVs? you mean moving slalom cones? Feb 02 19:29:09 johnx: that's great! Feb 02 19:29:20 * RST38h moos slightly Feb 02 19:29:29 Heya General, johnx, Jaffa Feb 02 19:29:34 johnx: or just call it Mer, in the spirit of Mer being multiplatform :P Feb 02 19:29:37 johnx: Isn't it just "Mer"? It's not mer86 Feb 02 19:29:45 Or Meremo Feb 02 19:30:09 uh, no Feb 02 19:30:11 Maemer Feb 02 19:30:16 mereus Feb 02 19:30:17 Stskeeps, well really, it's aimed at vanilla ubuntu. but yeah, of course it will be part of Mer for the Zaurus Feb 02 19:30:22 ;) Feb 02 19:30:34 Omegamoon, needs some polishing, but that shouldn't be a problem (famous last words) Feb 02 19:30:35 johnx, too tightly packed for that today, unfortunately. :( Feb 02 19:30:56 GeneralAntilles, sad :( I can see how that could be draining Feb 02 19:31:01 btw Feb 02 19:31:03 johnx, :P Feb 02 19:31:22 I did manage to catch up on all of my NPR podcasts, though. Feb 02 19:31:33 what's up with 'cpp somewhat broken' in mer sdk? :) Feb 02 19:31:46 from 0.7 release notes Feb 02 19:31:55 slonopotamus: as in binaries break when building in SB (C++) Feb 02 19:32:17 slonopotamus: if you can generate me an updated cross-compilation toolchain like codesourcery's, i would love you Feb 02 19:32:24 Stskeeps, remember my words :) slow is better than broken Feb 02 19:32:36 that match the proper libc that ubuntu uses Feb 02 19:33:07 how do you compile cpp stuff then? Feb 02 19:33:12 slonopotamus: natively Feb 02 19:33:14 slonopotamus: oh, i am still pondering to write an article on "Scratchbox: Defining the platform or accelerator" Feb 02 19:33:39 slonopotamus: we do x86 -> armel sb and if sb fails -> armel sb Feb 02 19:33:40 err Feb 02 19:33:42 armel qemu Feb 02 19:34:13 armel qemu != scratchbox? Feb 02 19:34:16 correct Feb 02 19:34:33 i thought there's qemu inside scratchbox, nope? Feb 02 19:34:47 there is, but scratchbox is weird. SB2 would be a blessing if it worked correctly. Feb 02 19:34:59 muahhaha) Feb 02 19:35:10 'if it worked correctly' :) Feb 02 19:35:23 SB1 is ok compared to SB2. :P Feb 02 19:35:31 you want cross-toolchain? Feb 02 19:35:33 Stskeeps, what sort of machine is the qemu builder running on right now? Feb 02 19:35:41 lemme see.. Feb 02 19:35:47 sb1 is the shit compared to sb2 Feb 02 19:35:50 johnx: can you upload the packages somewhere? Feb 02 19:36:07 johnx: model name : Intel(R) Core(TM)2 CPU 6600 @ 2.40GHz Feb 02 19:36:14 Stskeeps, if my toolchain managed to build bootable system, is it ok? Feb 02 19:36:20 Omegamoon, I spoke too soon, still have one thing to work out. Also, it's all the kdrive servers not just xfbdev Feb 02 19:36:31 Omegamoon, I need to split it into a multiple-binary package Feb 02 19:36:56 however i Feb 02 19:37:03 oops Feb 02 19:37:04 wrong button Feb 02 19:37:32 slonopotamus: x86 toolchain building yours? Feb 02 19:37:37 (for armel) Feb 02 19:38:13 Stskeeps, uh? i built armel gentoo from x86_64 from sources Feb 02 19:38:20 slonopotamus: ah :) Feb 02 19:38:40 Stskeeps, using crosscompiler built from source Feb 02 19:38:47 slonopotamus: what libc? Feb 02 19:39:45 (version) Feb 02 19:39:46 Stskeeps, 2.7 i guess. i don't think it's difficult to use older one Feb 02 19:40:04 ok - we use 2.8 in SDK and 2.9 in ubuntu which is the problem Feb 02 19:40:25 Omegamoon, hey, looks like that fixed it :) got someplace for me to upload to? Feb 02 19:40:27 Stskeeps, lemme check Feb 02 19:41:54 slonopotamus: and i would love a cross-compilation gcc similar to ubuntus libc and gcc level :P Feb 02 19:42:05 (i am an idiot in that field, tbh) Feb 02 19:42:06 Stskeeps, hmm... it's a bad idea to use different libc for binary-based distro Feb 02 19:42:14 yes, it is Feb 02 19:42:14 :P Feb 02 19:42:38 Stskeeps, yes, i used 2.7. it's current stable in gentoo Feb 02 19:42:43 k Feb 02 19:43:11 Stskeeps, why you can't use 2.9 in sb? Feb 02 19:43:25 slonopotamus: oh, i want to use 2.9, but the toolchain i have is for libc 2.8 Feb 02 19:43:42 hmm Feb 02 19:43:54 does 2.9 has releases? Feb 02 19:45:01 http://ports.ubuntu.com/pool/main/g/glibc/glibc_2.9.orig.tar.gz , http://ports.ubuntu.com/pool/main/g/glibc/glibc_2.9-0ubuntu9.dsc , http://ports.ubuntu.com/pool/main/g/glibc/glibc_2.9-0ubuntu9.diff.gz Feb 02 19:45:15 Stskeeps, well. ubuntu is built somehow :) it means they have toolchain Feb 02 19:45:25 they build natively Feb 02 19:45:43 prolly based on debian armel armv4t one Feb 02 19:45:48 originally Feb 02 19:45:49 oh Feb 02 19:46:08 well, if native is not slow even to them... :) Feb 02 19:46:27 they seem to have a nice cluster of fast builders so :P Feb 02 19:47:04 Stskeeps, tried tto become friends with them? :) Feb 02 19:47:04 So we need to hack their network and hijack their build cluster. Feb 02 19:47:14 slonopotamus: or that. Feb 02 19:47:19 benson: i wouldn't mind mojo.handhelds.org.. :P Feb 02 19:48:02 bzr is slow. use git Feb 02 19:48:07 sts likes to hold his mojo in his hands quite often Feb 02 19:48:35 slonopotamus: oh, we would but waiting for some feature requests :) Feb 02 19:48:36 * benson imagines Nokia donating a beowulf cluster of returned N810Ws... Feb 02 19:48:42 :) Feb 02 19:48:43 benson: .. also possible Feb 02 19:48:48 :D Feb 02 19:48:54 slonopotamus: you like git? Feb 02 19:48:57 Anyone tried distcc on a tablet? Feb 02 19:49:10 Jaffa: yeah, we used that in deblet or in the start of M-R PoC Feb 02 19:49:12 w00t, i like its speed Feb 02 19:49:18 Jaffa: DISTCC'ing to a crosscompiler Feb 02 19:49:20 benh, we'd just need to find power outlets for them and distribute them around balitmore and DC :D Feb 02 19:49:22 slonopotamus: hmm, careful answer :P Feb 02 19:49:28 w00t, bzr on tablet is annoingly slow Feb 02 19:49:35 can any one tell me if scratch box will run on fedora 10 or is it just a bad idea seeing that much of the linux kernel on the nokia s is more or less debian based Feb 02 19:49:46 hrmrm Feb 02 19:49:51 kernel isnt distro specific :P Feb 02 19:49:58 hey rm_you :D Feb 02 19:49:59 * Stskeeps kidnaps rm_you for coding work. Feb 02 19:50:15 is that a... its ok! Feb 02 19:50:29 slonopotamus: bzr *anywhere* is annoyingly slow, the one time I tried to use it, I gave up after 3 attempts at importing a repository that lasted well over 8 hours.. though I mostly blame sourceforge for that. Feb 02 19:50:38 dont know scratchbox, but kernel has nothing to do with the distro Feb 02 19:50:54 w00t, and git is fast everywhere :) even with powersave governor Feb 02 19:50:56 heh Feb 02 19:51:00 * Meiz_n810 installs WiFi radar (again) Feb 02 19:51:06 hehe Feb 02 19:51:07 currently still flailing at OSX Feb 02 19:51:22 osx rules Feb 02 19:51:38 there isn't a working driver for my wireless yet :( Feb 02 19:51:47 the intel 4xxx a/g/n Feb 02 19:52:01 hackintosh? Feb 02 19:52:06 yeah Feb 02 19:52:11 off the retail DVD tho Feb 02 19:52:15 give me full name, ill find you Feb 02 19:52:18 lol Feb 02 19:52:19 not one of those hacked up distros Feb 02 19:52:32 i have a real license for the OS :) Feb 02 19:52:45 rm_you, so take a break and do some work on Mer :) Feb 02 19:52:48 i guess technically i'm breaking the EULA by installing on a toshiba, but not pirating :) Feb 02 19:52:51 so do i , its just not from Apple ;p Feb 02 19:52:55 lol Feb 02 19:53:05 bad humor Feb 02 19:53:13 heh Feb 02 19:53:26 johnx: lol, you wanna see my todo list for today? Feb 02 19:53:41 sure. I'll tell you what you can skip :) Feb 02 19:53:42 edit it for family viewing Feb 02 19:53:45 i'm playing with OSX cause it's feasible to do inside 10 minute breaks Feb 02 19:53:52 * slonopotamus uses completely rebuild from source gentoo and doesn't care of eulas :) Feb 02 19:54:17 inside 10 minute breaks? Feb 02 19:54:35 slonopotamus, you say that, but you can't even distribute a fully working distro :) Feb 02 19:54:45 (because of EULAs I mean) Feb 02 19:54:49 anyone got address for maemo extras handy? Feb 02 19:54:49 yeah i have like 10 minutes at a time free between tasks :/ Feb 02 19:54:58 ~extras Feb 02 19:54:59 [extras] http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras Feb 02 19:55:33 johnx, uh? i'll have small manual installation guide. gentoo users are ok with this Feb 02 19:55:42 is there a quiet corner where i can go and scream very loudly Feb 02 19:55:54 lcuk, not in this country ... Feb 02 19:56:14 lcuk, yep. /msg infobot Feb 02 19:56:29 http://internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=261619&postcount=26 <- should i go hide in a corner and think this thing blew up way too much in the wrong way? Feb 02 19:57:19 Stskeeps, how does he get here *so fast* sometimes? O_o Feb 02 19:58:08 cos he has a cape Feb 02 19:58:10 Stskeeps: it's a good thing Feb 02 19:58:28 Jaffa: yeah, but i also misunderstood they were asking about the 3rd party stuff.. Feb 02 19:58:56 Sts: hiding sounds like a good strategy right now Feb 02 19:59:15 Stskeeps, me too O_o Feb 02 19:59:16 Sts: Feb 02 19:59:34 Stskeeps, am i also right in thinking its best to keep binaries to a bare minimum anyway: if this is wanted on multiplatforms anything binary will need to be resourced anyway Feb 02 19:59:40 Sts: 'cause whatever Quim says, a flame war with conspiracy accusations against Nokia is almost guaranteed Feb 02 20:00:04 lcuk, definitely agreed there. :) Feb 02 20:00:23 lcuk: yes, i agree, i am mostly for HW interfacing only blobs, but that's me Feb 02 20:00:40 lcuk, the plan is for the base image to be all free software, with an optional -full image containing non-free things Feb 02 20:00:54 im with you - i would rather have a blob driver than no working hardware (pvr has been shouted for a long time) Feb 02 20:01:29 johnx, but where would those non free things come from Feb 02 20:01:35 there's one thing i wonder about - they said powervr driver would breach GPL, but doesn't umac.ko too technically? Feb 02 20:01:42 quim is right in what he says, 3rd party software is not applicable Feb 02 20:01:42 lcuk, Nokia? Feb 02 20:02:01 Sts: How do they both breach gpl, Feb 02 20:02:11 RST38h: closed source ko? Feb 02 20:02:19 Sts: They just prevent you from labelling the whole system gpl Feb 02 20:02:22 mm Feb 02 20:02:26 johnx, nokia developed closed portions are one thing - thats already ok, but flash isnt Feb 02 20:02:38 Sts: But you can perfectly well follow nokia's example and release two blobs Feb 02 20:02:53 Sts: One is Mer and another Mer-Close-Source-Binaries Feb 02 20:03:12 lcuk, yeah, flash will likely have to be via a symlink or a package created on the end-user's device Feb 02 20:03:31 * timelE61i sighs Feb 02 20:03:41 * Stskeeps eyes the vodka Feb 02 20:03:42 Quim says he's specifically talking about Flash. Feb 02 20:03:44 we finally got mer working w/ my debs Feb 02 20:03:49 timelE61i: how does it work? Feb 02 20:03:52 screw flash Feb 02 20:03:59 RST38h++ Feb 02 20:04:03 whoever wants flash will be able to install it separately Feb 02 20:04:14 johnx, thats a big problem though and playing by the word of an agreement and using backhanded tricks to get dodgy software in is another Feb 02 20:04:30 the burden of violating licenses will then rest at whoever installs flash Feb 02 20:04:38 its like the problem with maemo-mapper Feb 02 20:04:54 nudge nudge, wink wink theres a map respoisitory somewhere Feb 02 20:05:04 lcuk, first-boot-wizard asks: Would you like me to link flash into rootfs? Yes? No? Feb 02 20:05:05 lcuk/johnx: why second guess? Ask for ability to merge Flash plugin with mer images distributed through Nokia-controlled, EULA-binded pages and see what the response is. Feb 02 20:05:18 agreed Feb 02 20:05:27 * RST38h just fucked up MSDOS keyboard handler. Have to restore it Feb 02 20:05:30 johnx: where from though? Or is the thought now that merinstaller is more useful than a flashable image? Feb 02 20:05:33 yeah, that's what we were thinking anyways Feb 02 20:06:00 Jaffa, don't ask me right now. this is me just kind of thinking freely not doing long-term planning Feb 02 20:06:03 :) Feb 02 20:06:08 * Jaffa doesn't want to faff copying maps to & from his /media/mmc2, which is why he's not installed mer image yet (that and VirtualBox works :-)) Feb 02 20:07:44 * GeneralAntilles responds to gcobb's bit about contributors vs users. Feb 02 20:07:46 stskeep: pretty well, i needed to poke one file+apps, i'll make a deb for that shortly Feb 02 20:08:23 timelE61i: 5.0 or 6.0 debs btw? Feb 02 20:09:11 Jaffa: on the plus side qgil directly says "want nokia binaries? sure!" Feb 02 20:09:16 (more or less) Feb 02 20:10:07 who owns the cpu meter from mer? Feb 02 20:10:11 load-applet Feb 02 20:10:29 diablo Feb 02 20:10:35 no idea who made it actually :P Feb 02 20:10:38 infobot: seen chelli Feb 02 20:10:41 chelli was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 54d 23h 7m 48s ago, saying: ':)'. Feb 02 20:10:51 :S Feb 02 20:11:47 ? Feb 02 20:13:25 timelE61i: https://garage.maemo.org/projects/load-applet Feb 02 20:14:20 jaffa: would you mind if i made a component for load applet in bugzilla? Feb 02 20:14:22 :) Feb 02 20:14:30 mer ships it, and it's buggy :) Feb 02 20:19:11 OK, from Mer perspective and from you people's point of view, did I try to respond correctly in my post at http://internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=261584&postcount=20 , cos i'm getting close to a minor heart attack over the potential mess / potential damage to the opening :P Feb 02 20:20:07 RST38h: "No keyboard found. Press "Esc" to continue" :) Feb 02 20:20:13 Stskeeps, don't worry about it :) this is just qole, qoling :) Feb 02 20:21:59 I think you did ok; at least you hit the substantive points, instead of the facetious statement at the end. ;) Feb 02 20:23:50 timeless: sounds sensible; assuming someone's going to follow up on them Feb 02 20:25:16 jaffa: ok, i'll do it in a few mins Feb 02 20:26:00 Stskeeps, its an ugly subject, but it needs airing completely Feb 02 20:26:07 wazd: What says that? Feb 02 20:26:15 Ah, yes, I know Feb 02 20:26:42 wazd: Had a Bondwell portable once that said "Keyboard error. Smash any key to continue." Feb 02 20:27:00 we will have a mer soon which will shot a broken screen Feb 02 20:27:04 show Feb 02 20:29:29 * wazd is trying to make OMWeather adorable for third-party weather sources Feb 02 20:32:19 wazd, adding in a way to display banner ads? Feb 02 20:32:52 lcuk: the one with jaws and failboat? ;) Feb 02 20:33:09 :D Feb 02 20:33:22 johnx: well, sort of Feb 02 20:33:47 johnx: Try to adopt design to show their logos on detailed view Feb 02 20:34:04 johnx: without annoying Feb 02 20:35:27 we should just leave a small area in the bottom corner of the nit for sponsorship logos - like a tv station :D have a watermark Feb 02 20:36:13 mind you, we could just use the bezel of the hardware Feb 02 20:36:38 "please change this facia sticker every 2 weeks according to our advertizer Feb 02 20:38:57 lcuk: well, I have an idea that will fit both users and forecast-providers) Feb 02 20:39:24 lcuk: if not - they are fricking assholes and they shoud burn in hell, greedy bastards) Feb 02 20:39:35 hot bikini models rendered in glorious 3d? Feb 02 20:39:45 what package has the program depmod ? Feb 02 20:39:50 cos thats what *I* as a user would want Feb 02 20:40:01 lcuk: damn, was it already done?( Feb 02 20:40:08 not on nokias Feb 02 20:40:23 infact ive not heard about anything adult oriented Feb 02 20:41:01 StOrM_NW, it's not installable as a package thanks to busybox. grab a binary from http://sse2.net/depmod Feb 02 20:41:10 when we get a nice high resolution camera i imagine we may require a secret vault for private pics Feb 02 20:42:26 who wants to guess how much memory we will have? Feb 02 20:42:30 I haven't tried it, but hot-babe should work. Feb 02 20:42:31 errr drive space Feb 02 20:42:37 http://dindinx.net/hotbabe/ Feb 02 20:42:44 but wouldnt she tear? Feb 02 20:43:40 Don't think so. Feb 02 20:44:03 qwerty12_N800, fancy packaging something up? Feb 02 20:44:06 "undress" is best translated as "close dissolve" Feb 02 20:44:18 s/close/clothes/ Feb 02 20:44:19 benson meant: "undress" is best translated as "clothes dissolve" Feb 02 20:44:36 lcuk, kinda hard as I'm on the tablet now... Feb 02 20:44:39 No animation, just layers changing transparency. Feb 02 20:44:54 well, then we shoud have a media plugin for redtube or something xD Feb 02 20:45:08 * freelikegnu boots mer for the first time ^^ Feb 02 20:45:18 freelikegnu: good luck :) Feb 02 20:45:35 sp3000? Feb 02 20:45:40 Generating locales... Feb 02 20:45:47 en_GB.UTF-8... up-to-date Feb 02 20:45:52 en_US.UTF-8... up-to-date Feb 02 20:46:03 fi_FI.UTF-8... memory exhausted Feb 02 20:46:09 s/ / / Feb 02 20:46:09 timeless meant: fi_FI.UTF-8... memory exhausted Feb 02 20:46:10 generating ssh key Feb 02 20:46:15 failed Feb 02 20:46:20 Generation complete. Feb 02 20:46:35 timeless: vmdk? :P Feb 02 20:46:36 hey, hang on Feb 02 20:46:42 it doesnt have a ./configure section Feb 02 20:46:42 yes Feb 02 20:46:49 timelE61i: generate me pl_PL.UTF-8 too Feb 02 20:46:49 timeless: put more ram in the VM? ;) Feb 02 20:46:53 and there are 5 pngs denoting her in a different state of undress :D Feb 02 20:46:59 wazd: redtube? Feb 02 20:47:00 (pl_PL using en_GB names for now) Feb 02 20:47:01 stskeeps: i'm assuming it's a random failure :) Feb 02 20:47:04 hehe Feb 02 20:47:13 i.e. stupid error message for something unrelated Feb 02 20:47:52 timeless: so, care to generate me pl_PL.UTF-8? Feb 02 20:48:04 not really Feb 02 20:48:07 Interesting comment #8 from Eero on #2399; suggests that Fremantle won't be using jffs2 (hang on, did we already know?) Feb 02 20:48:15 i'm just trying to get en_US correct Feb 02 20:48:19 jaffa: that's right Feb 02 20:48:21 hmmh Feb 02 20:48:25 nokia's been contributing to ubifs for a while Feb 02 20:48:29 this is well known Feb 02 20:48:37 hmm no onscreen kb came up for password confirm, and cancelling just contiued on :o Feb 02 20:48:42 timeless: he then goes on to say it's even harder for ubifs ;-) Feb 02 20:48:43 well, for some weak definition of well known :) Feb 02 20:48:45 good, because jffs2 is... a filesystem ;P Feb 02 20:48:50 Jaffa, yen, me knew. Feb 02 20:48:53 s/me/we/ Feb 02 20:48:54 GeneralAntilles meant: Jaffa, yen, we knew. Feb 02 20:48:59 s/yen/yes/ Feb 02 20:49:00 GeneralAntilles meant: Jaffa, yes, me knew. Feb 02 20:49:09 * timeless rotfl Feb 02 20:49:14 * GeneralAntilles recalibrating. . . . Feb 02 20:49:15 btw, can we have a true block device emulation with wear levelling? Feb 02 20:49:33 lofifs ? Feb 02 20:49:58 no, not a filesystem Feb 02 20:50:02 more like device-mapper Feb 02 20:50:04 freelikegnu: you need to manually click HIM up Feb 02 20:50:06 whatever Feb 02 20:50:10 a block device Feb 02 20:50:11 if a device is just a pointer to a file Feb 02 20:50:17 then you now have a "block device" Feb 02 20:50:19 'I.e. on Fremantle user files are planned to be elsewhere than on rootfs. Feb 02 20:50:22 which would be wear leveled Feb 02 20:50:28 they're going to be on the FAT partition, btw Feb 02 20:50:28 :P Feb 02 20:50:34 of the internal MMC Feb 02 20:50:34 stskeeps: right Feb 02 20:50:42 calling it an mmc bothers me Feb 02 20:50:43 the mahoosive one? Feb 02 20:50:45 but yes, that thing Feb 02 20:51:03 timeless: that's loopback Feb 02 20:51:06 Stskeeps: HIM? Feb 02 20:51:13 freelikegnu: hildon input method :) Feb 02 20:51:14 yes, I could use dm-loop Feb 02 20:51:18 (the on screen keyboard) Feb 02 20:51:22 but I'd prefer something more low-level Feb 02 20:51:43 clicking text input area worked for other requestors Feb 02 20:52:00 freelikegnu: k, file a bug if you can (or is johnx listening in?) Feb 02 20:53:00 hallo? Feb 02 20:53:35 Stskeeps: will do... btw, I love the NetworkManager integration :D Feb 02 20:53:39 freelikegnu: what did you experience exactly? Feb 02 20:53:43 freelikegnu: mm, it's a hack Feb 02 20:53:51 cancelling continued? Feb 02 20:54:24 well I got HIM for user name and password setting dialogs by tapping on the input area Feb 02 20:54:54 but tapping on the text input area for password verification did not bring up HIM Feb 02 20:55:09 odd Feb 02 20:55:31 so you cancelled the confirm screen? then what happened? Feb 02 20:55:31 btw, have you locale deprived people looked at www.it46.se/localegen/ ? Feb 02 20:55:32 so I tapped cancel (I think) and the setup just contiuned on Feb 02 20:55:44 Hi, how can I make an osso systemnote that has that "loading" gif? Feb 02 20:55:45 as if it confirmed ok Feb 02 20:56:00 did it assign you the password you picked first time? Feb 02 20:56:12 (in python) Feb 02 20:56:14 not sure, I'll check Feb 02 20:56:41 if anyone need some free webspace for a Maemo Project I''m reopening Maemobox this week Feb 02 20:57:28 hey johnx the new driver worked perfect ... really thanks for the help Feb 02 20:57:45 wifi driver cx31xx Feb 02 20:57:45 dieb_, http://lovebug356.blogspot.com/2007/08/hildon-banner-in-pymaemo.html ? Feb 02 20:57:47 StOrM_NW, thank Stskeeps for the driver patch :) Feb 02 20:58:18 yep thanks Stskeeps :) Feb 02 20:58:21 StOrM_NW, glad to hear it :) you should post somewhere about your mesh networking project. sounds quite interesting Feb 02 20:59:16 qwerty12_N800, great, thanks! :) Feb 02 20:59:39 hmm network connections has me stuck for a keyring permission Feb 02 20:59:52 yep ... it is still in development phase, but as soon as it goes stable i will post something about it Feb 02 21:00:10 freelikegnu: huh? 0.7? Feb 02 21:00:16 freelikegnu, anyways, I'm gonna get some sleep for now, but I'll check out f-b-w in more depth tomorrow Feb 02 21:00:33 have a good sleep johnx! Feb 02 21:00:40 later johnx Feb 02 21:00:51 freelikegnu: something prolly screwed up in f-b-w then :P Feb 02 21:01:42 Stskeeps: yeah there is a blank window for network connections and trying to move show a hidden window requesting permission to access keyring :o Feb 02 21:02:21 freelikegnu: try press the unlock thing Feb 02 21:02:30 hi guys, I got a question about debugging an application on an n810 any information would be greatly appreciated. Feb 02 21:02:32 omg wtf lol! Feb 02 21:02:37 hot-babe is amusing Feb 02 21:02:38 nokia Feb 02 21:03:16 this technology is very useful Feb 02 21:03:21 and should be showcased more Feb 02 21:03:30 fortunately load applet let me kill NM Feb 02 21:03:34 whew Feb 02 21:04:35 b-man: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4062 Feb 02 21:04:49 it appears the password I had entered was used depite the verification Feb 02 21:04:49 lcuk, getting sprung over cartoons doesn't really appeal to me :p Feb 02 21:05:09 I was able to set passwd in xterm Feb 02 21:05:15 its for the tech - its fast animation Feb 02 21:05:20 anyway bbl after 24 Feb 02 21:05:23 Stskeeps: was the wifi driver for N8x0 that StOrM_NW referenced? Feb 02 21:05:31 r2d2rogers: yeah Feb 02 21:05:38 i am compiling up one atm Feb 02 21:06:08 yep Feb 02 21:06:08 Stskeeps: good deal, just trying to make sure I was paying attention ;) Feb 02 21:07:50 hm, is maemo.org slightly broken, or am I? Feb 02 21:08:44 Stskeeps: hmm, that's a strange bug :p i'll look into it ;) Feb 02 21:09:06 also odd that I was able to connect to WPA once but it fails thereafter Feb 02 21:10:10 aquatix: white pages once in a while Feb 02 21:10:21 freelikegnu: yeah, the cx3110x driver is a bit funny Feb 02 21:10:25 Stskeeps: i have emtpy articles and such Feb 02 21:10:29 with empty comments Feb 02 21:10:39 aquatix: relaod Feb 02 21:11:04 Stskeeps: understood :D Feb 02 21:11:05 same issue Feb 02 21:11:13 * aquatix makes screenshot Feb 02 21:11:32 still I think this is really great Feb 02 21:11:55 lads, what do you think: http://s51.radikal.ru/i132/0902/f4/5022d825a4be.jpg Feb 02 21:12:24 * b-man starts to compile/build up some more packages for ubuntu n8x0 repo and looks into the merinstaller bug :) Feb 02 21:12:28 Stskeeps: http://dump.aquariusoft.org/files/2009-02-02-221132_1400x1050_scrot.png Feb 02 21:12:47 wazd, looking good Feb 02 21:13:32 aquatix: neat :P Feb 02 21:13:36 wazd: slick Feb 02 21:13:49 Would foreca be satisfied with that stuff?) Feb 02 21:13:50 Stskeeps: depends on your definitions ;) Feb 02 21:13:56 when WPA fails the authentication requestor comes up for WPA password but shows a very long hex string instead of the password I put in Feb 02 21:14:18 maybe it thinks its connecting to WEP? Feb 02 21:14:39 possible - there's an error when it has time to sleep Feb 02 21:14:50 r2d2rogers: http://www.daimi.au.dk/~cvm/cx3110x.ko Feb 02 21:14:51 freelikegnu: i didn't follow your complete issue, but it's regular wpa you're connecting to? Feb 02 21:14:55 try drop it in and modprobe -a Feb 02 21:14:58 er, depmod -a Feb 02 21:15:01 yep Feb 02 21:15:06 freelikegnu: ok Feb 02 21:15:18 as radius stuff gives you wep keys and such Feb 02 21:15:39 nope just basic home WPA-PSK Feb 02 21:15:51 iirc Feb 02 21:17:39 doh blank desktop on rotation Feb 02 21:18:04 is there a button combo for power off/reboot Feb 02 21:18:43 nop Feb 02 21:18:50 it's UI tricks Feb 02 21:18:51 ctrl+alt+del? :) Feb 02 21:18:55 * freelikegnu winces as he removes the battery Feb 02 21:19:10 no kb on my n800, aquatix ;-) Feb 02 21:19:21 meh ;) Feb 02 21:19:24 freelikegnu: i pop battery often Feb 02 21:19:25 :P Feb 02 21:19:35 * freelikegnu is spoiled Feb 02 21:19:36 aquatix: no del button :P Feb 02 21:19:39 freelikegnu: maybe try holding the power button first Feb 02 21:19:45 AStorm: i'm aware :) Feb 02 21:20:08 next device should better have a hardware reboot button Feb 02 21:20:15 and/or hardware power button Feb 02 21:20:21 heh Feb 02 21:20:29 all buttons are soft mapped on n800, no? Feb 02 21:20:33 yes Feb 02 21:20:43 they're accessed over GPIO Feb 02 21:20:50 soft blobs too eh? Feb 02 21:21:01 hm? Feb 02 21:21:18 all of them Feb 02 21:21:24 the access to power button is not open software? Feb 02 21:21:28 ... Feb 02 21:21:31 it is Feb 02 21:21:36 it's available over GPIO Feb 02 21:21:38 hah it rebooted with a wifi connectio Feb 02 21:21:41 the problem is, it's all done in software Feb 02 21:21:50 gonna grab wpa supplicant while I can Feb 02 21:21:51 I mean, handling the press Feb 02 21:22:02 no hardware "hold for 4s to powerdown" Feb 02 21:22:15 funny, because there is power-on Feb 02 21:22:48 not funny when you crash the device and have to yank the battery Feb 02 21:23:19 r2d2rogers: keep me updated with if it works at all :) Feb 02 21:23:22 * aquatix crashes into his bed Feb 02 21:23:23 nn all Feb 02 21:24:25 AStorm: its kind of embarrassing during a crowded train ride Feb 02 21:24:26 hehe Feb 02 21:24:59 they see the GNU sticker on my battery cover Feb 02 21:25:05 well, if I were forecast provider - I'd be proud for having such a cool informer absolutely for free) Feb 02 21:25:23 But they all are greedy bastards, you'll see Feb 02 21:25:47 freelikegnu: it doesn't happen that often live Feb 02 21:25:52 but often enough in development Feb 02 21:25:55 :/ Feb 02 21:32:29 * freelikegnu installs firefox Feb 02 21:37:10 freelikegunn: hehe Feb 02 21:37:10 Stskeeps: the umac.ko need to be copid over instead of symlinked? Feb 02 21:37:43 re: freelikegnu - sorry Feb 02 21:40:31 heh bbl Feb 02 21:41:05 Arghh, Ubuntu decided to upgrade gcc Feb 02 21:41:25 Possibilities for disaster boggle the mind Feb 02 21:42:42 help! I can't do tap and hold for right click in the web browser! it works perfectly fine everywhere else, like in the file manager. but when it comes to the web browser, I tap and hold and nothing happens. when i let go, it clicks on the link. Feb 02 21:43:14 StsN800: SoftMAC not initialized, chip not booted (Get oid 0x17000012) Feb 02 21:44:02 r2d2rogers, cx3110x .ko in lib/modules/whatever, umac symlinked Feb 02 21:44:08 reboot Feb 02 21:46:06 StsN800: done, with the result above Feb 02 21:46:07 can anyone pls help me with my problem? Feb 02 21:46:23 no wireless showing in the nm-applet dropdowen either Feb 02 21:47:10 r2d2rogers, hmm Feb 02 21:47:23 r2d2rogers, ifconfig wlan0 up Feb 02 21:48:35 StsN800: restart NetworkManager also and I get wireless showing up \o/ Feb 02 21:48:43 trying some WPA stuff Feb 02 21:49:18 StsN800: nothing in the wireless security dropdown... Feb 02 21:49:26 StsN800: need another package? Feb 02 21:49:31 thought so Feb 02 21:53:21 r2d2rogers, sec trying smth Feb 02 21:54:12 StsN800: k Feb 02 22:00:31 The CRT is fine 'til the phosphors become too dark :-) Feb 02 22:00:53 oiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii Feb 02 22:00:53 iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii Feb 02 22:00:54 iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii Feb 02 22:00:59 iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii Feb 02 22:01:06 iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii Feb 02 22:01:16 stop that Feb 02 22:01:57 AndrewFBlack: Fall asleep on your keyboard? Feb 02 22:02:11 upside down and angry? Feb 02 22:06:14 r2d2rogers, redl same url try again Feb 02 22:06:37 reboot, ifconfig wlan0, restart nm Feb 02 22:10:22 StsN800: rebooting Feb 02 22:11:13 StsN800: FYI, top right part of 770 case is warm Feb 02 22:13:22 maybe that guy just destroyed his NIT screen... Feb 02 22:15:39 StsN800: awesome, I see the options, trying to connect Feb 02 22:16:25 StsN800: had to modprobe before ifconfig wlan0 up... Feb 02 22:16:33 can I somehow remove a package from extras-devel, because that package is broken and an older version actually does work better? Feb 02 22:16:46 (I know, I should test packages before uploading them... :) ) Feb 02 22:19:41 StsN800: nm-applet froze, batter pop and trying again. Feb 02 22:19:54 k Feb 02 22:21:12 Mek, X-Fade may delete them, dunno but you can reupload old source package with epoched version number (http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-controlfields.html#s-f-Version) afaik Feb 02 22:25:47 Stskeeps, re: solca's post about "open" devices, what's actually keeping us on 2.6.21? Feb 02 22:26:00 Stskeeps, I feel like there's some misinformation there. . . . Feb 02 22:32:55 hi Feb 02 22:33:06 Howdy Feb 02 22:33:39 is there anyway to change the date/time values of the internal gps before the Maps application reads them? Feb 02 22:40:16 han-solo, you wanna beat your kessle run record? Feb 02 22:40:37 kessel * Feb 02 22:40:47 :-)) Feb 02 22:41:32 no, I'm tired of asking for new trials, I want to keep the date part of the info received from gps to "today" Feb 02 22:41:35 i dont think there is - why do you wanna play with the timings from atomic clocks? Feb 02 22:41:43 ahhh thats a different thing Feb 02 22:41:48 thats not the gps timings Feb 02 22:42:11 thats the license lockout and entirely down to the maps publisher Feb 02 22:42:37 StsN800: not much luck connecting, seems to drag on connection attempt, but without maxing the CPU Feb 02 22:42:45 will try another AP at home Feb 02 22:42:52 or an open one tonight Feb 02 22:45:12 luck, so there is no way to put a home brew application between the internal gps and the maps app? Feb 02 22:46:38 StsN800: ahhha, tiw as waiting on the Keyring you've been griping about Feb 02 22:47:02 StsN800: more details later, probably tomrrow. Feb 02 22:47:21 evening all Feb 02 22:49:00 hey lardster Feb 02 22:49:08 hows the snow Feb 02 22:49:15 melting Feb 02 22:49:22 only time for a couple of handbrake turns Feb 02 22:49:23 StsN800: been connected wifi for over an hour now, Feb 02 22:49:25 :D Feb 02 22:49:58 heh, last time i played inthe snow in my car i went sideways onto a morrisons flowerbed Feb 02 22:50:07 thogh I cant figure out how to get HIM up in FF Feb 02 22:50:08 and i did 70mph whilst standing still Feb 02 22:50:25 han-solo, the time doesn't come from the GPS. Feb 02 22:50:35 han-solo, rather than trying to steal the service, why not just pay? Feb 02 22:50:47 I was a bit worried this evening trying to drive up hill on some quiet back roads, but only snow, no ice Feb 02 22:51:23 http://www.flixxy.com/cars-on-ice.htm Feb 02 22:51:31 it will be like this tomorrow ;) Feb 02 22:52:13 and the music will go through your head as you try to go home ;) Feb 02 22:53:01 dudes, do you think that this banner size and place is enough to adore forecast-providers? http://s39.radikal.ru/i085/0902/7b/d759775c2e2e.jpg Feb 02 22:53:10 lcuk: I had to do that a few years back while backing out of my garage (which is on a slope at right angles to the way you drive in) Feb 02 22:53:29 random sliding and trying to avoid clonking car on garage entrace Feb 02 22:53:30 General, I honestly don't think that it is worth the $129 (for 3 years) Feb 02 22:53:35 heh Feb 02 22:53:43 han-solo, then don't use it. Feb 02 22:53:45 han-solo, then dont - use it when you need it? Feb 02 22:54:07 its somethin i buy a monthly license for if i know im goin away Feb 02 22:54:45 lcuk: I saw on ch4 this evening some stuff like that too - any 2wd cars were in all sorts of trouble, then a subaru impreza wrx just drove past happy as Larry :) Feb 02 22:54:45 129 bucks for 3 years it's like 40 bucks a year = 3 bucks a month Feb 02 22:55:01 for god sake, are you that poor?) Feb 02 22:55:01 4wd have no problems getting going :) Feb 02 22:55:19 is that hard to just answer to the technical question I asked? I'm not asking you to do it for me... If you don't know the answer, just say it and I'll try somewhere else Feb 02 22:55:32 han-solo, use the force. Feb 02 22:55:39 doesn't that come with tomtom Feb 02 22:55:49 guys, answer me! http://s39.radikal.ru/i085/0902/7b/d759775c2e2e.jpg Feb 02 22:55:57 -----> http://s39.radikal.ru/i085/0902/7b/d759775c2e2e.jpg <----- Feb 02 22:55:59 xD Feb 02 22:56:51 If you were Foreca, would you be happy with that? Feb 02 22:57:33 see ya all Feb 02 23:01:09 wazd, can you do that kind of customization with omweather? Feb 02 23:02:16 lcuk: that's not the problem right now Feb 02 23:02:34 what is? Feb 02 23:02:44 lcuk: the problem is to convince providers to give us info "legaly" Feb 02 23:02:46 it looks good btw Feb 02 23:03:45 I want an exchange: their banner with link for xml source Feb 02 23:05:22 So I want to write e-mails to different providers, explaining stuff, with an ask for xml source Feb 02 23:06:05 Last "asking" attempt was failed :) Feb 02 23:06:21 you ever thought about going the inverted way? Feb 02 23:06:37 lots of folks now have home weather stations Feb 02 23:06:43 some are bluetooth/wifi Feb 02 23:07:14 lcuk: so?) Feb 02 23:07:51 it would be nice to have that info with me whilst im at the computer instead of having to go downstairs to the wall to look at the readouts :) Feb 02 23:08:13 and your display pretty much covers it :) Feb 02 23:08:46 its just an alternative datasource Feb 02 23:09:06 lcuk: that's pretty hard request. Cause we haven't got any weather station in here :) Feb 02 23:09:41 lcuk: So we can't even check it if it's possible to combine Feb 02 23:09:56 by the same tune i hadnt heard of anyone with those car sensors that carmen uses either Feb 02 23:10:09 thats the same idea Feb 02 23:10:22 Carmen? Feb 02 23:10:32 Is that some lady or a whole team of mechanics? Feb 02 23:10:37 carman Feb 02 23:10:39 lol Feb 02 23:11:05 i dunno, i just read about it, thought "luke would love that", moved on Feb 02 23:11:10 lcuk, OBDII ports or readers? :P Feb 02 23:12:00 Well, he have lots of stuff to do for the OMW future, I'll add your request to my personal list, lcuk :) Feb 02 23:12:27 wazd, just an idea nothing more Feb 02 23:12:33 Can't wait for new UI release to start work Feb 02 23:12:43 I'm trying to submit package to maemo-extras using dput, but dput is return "KeyError: 'files'"... what is the problem? Feb 02 23:12:44 * lcuk laughs Feb 02 23:12:58 * lcuk can see something working really really nicely Feb 02 23:13:16 lardman :) i can detect clicks again now Feb 02 23:14:18 warmed up enough that you can feel your fingers? Feb 02 23:14:56 heh, no the mouse events are now tied into the cell tree. i can click on widgets in the new liqbase core :) Feb 02 23:15:38 Oh, Ciroip is participating n97 widget contest aswell) Feb 02 23:15:46 With his "flipclock" Feb 02 23:15:46 rendering is pretty much there, dynamic widgets are there, instancing and scaling and font rendering is there Feb 02 23:15:56 http://2009.nseries.com/competition/gallery/3.aspx Feb 02 23:16:11 wazd, i will be entering a liqbase widget soon :) Feb 02 23:16:25 either that or i might just bring them all to life Feb 02 23:17:03 ohmy)))) Feb 02 23:17:14 They have so many duplicated items) Feb 02 23:17:34 Not only me was pissed bout their weird upload system) Feb 02 23:18:05 im miffed at the locked aspect and size of them Feb 02 23:18:16 its such a low resolution because thats what the n97 is Feb 02 23:18:23 they look awful all on the tablet Feb 02 23:18:31 needs a squarer aspect ;) Feb 02 23:18:41 9 fit on screen nicely Feb 02 23:18:47 and are clickable and active Feb 02 23:19:53 OMFG! Feb 02 23:19:58 Check it out! Feb 02 23:19:59 at those dimensions on the tablet it will be 2 colums, 8 rows Feb 02 23:20:01 hmm, where do I find openssh these days? Feb 02 23:20:08 http://2009.nseries.com/competition/gallery/13.aspx Feb 02 23:20:17 Apple movie trailers Feb 02 23:20:26 He actually took my widget apart@) Feb 02 23:20:29 omg)) Feb 02 23:20:46 lardman, extras Feb 02 23:21:01 OMG)))) Feb 02 23:21:07 And another one!)) Feb 02 23:21:09 lardman, really? I mean . . . REALLY? Feb 02 23:21:16 Wholy macarony)) Feb 02 23:21:25 wazd, download a load of them and make a tile to fit on the 800*480 screen and view on tablet Feb 02 23:21:36 GeneralAntilles: well I have Extras enabled and I can't seem to find it Feb 02 23:21:47 that was why I asked, thought I might be going mad or something Feb 02 23:21:59 lardman, yes, you are. :P Feb 02 23:22:26 wazd, most of these are pretty bad. Feb 02 23:23:20 http://2009.nseries.com/images/InnovationNewsdesk//originals/6209f8b6-9553-4c2c-81a8-23a710a4acdb.jpg <---- thats mine Feb 02 23:23:30 http://2009.nseries.com/images/InnovationNewsdesk//originals/bc451969-fa01-42c2-95fe-b4575677ce60.JPG <------ #1 Feb 02 23:23:39 http://2009.nseries.com/images/InnovationNewsdesk//originals/cc8c3737-dd93-43b6-aba5-2e89c47a9486.jpg <------ #2 Feb 02 23:24:44 Can I have an oscar in "Most cloned widget" nomination?) Feb 02 23:26:22 btw that contest arrangment system is a total crap Feb 02 23:26:27 * lardman curses and realises his n800 doesn't have the latest flash image Feb 02 23:26:39 doh! Feb 02 23:26:51 you can't give direct link to the widget Feb 02 23:27:17 more than that, you can't give a link to the page, cause they are always changing Feb 02 23:27:36 wazd, crappy website, too. Feb 02 23:27:44 Rating reloads the page and takes you back to the top. . . Feb 02 23:28:02 wazd http://liqbase.net/liq.20090202_232708.lib.scr.png Feb 02 23:28:33 lcuk: they looks resized :) Feb 02 23:28:34 i have a widget which loads them in and shows all of them at any size, at the prescribed size on the tablet they dont look good Feb 02 23:29:01 they are but you get the idea - its adjusted for aspect slightly cos it gave each exactly half the screen width Feb 02 23:29:14 it makes the screen too busy Feb 02 23:29:38 yep Feb 02 23:29:52 its like a bad internet explorer advert Feb 02 23:29:54 btw, it's funny that nokia has standartized widget size Feb 02 23:29:56 a wall of noise Feb 02 23:30:06 thats for the ui on the phone Feb 02 23:30:08 watch the demos Feb 02 23:30:36 something feels wrong about it though - those ideas work as the kind of adverts we ignore on the web Feb 02 23:30:40 its not a widget Feb 02 23:30:47 cause here I was talking bout it: http://tabletui.wordpress.com/2008/03/04/chapter-iii-home-sweet-home/ Feb 02 23:31:43 nice, i layout my vb forms on a similar grid :) Feb 02 23:31:55 not exactly that stuff, but standards anyway) Feb 02 23:31:58 and my report designer is the same Feb 02 23:32:39 tracy plays a lot of sims Feb 02 23:32:50 have you seen the grid layout they use for the elements there Feb 02 23:33:01 yep) Feb 02 23:33:25 hmm, how do I search for closed bugs? I only seem to be able to see New ones in the bugtracker (looking at My Bugs section) Feb 02 23:34:45 i dunno, post a link Feb 02 23:35:02 to what? bug tracker? Feb 02 23:35:25 yeah you have it open Feb 02 23:36:02 ah, I twiddled a value in the url from __open__ to __closed__ and it's done what I wanted, sorry for the noise Feb 02 23:37:01 lardman, use the real search. Feb 02 23:37:12 lardman, the quick search is next to useless. Feb 02 23:40:16 damn! i just realised, with liqbase in windowed mode, screenshots will not work by default! Feb 02 23:40:30 so a desktop screenshot shows clear through Feb 02 23:40:43 and a liqbase screenshot has no border Feb 02 23:42:46 wazd: the foreca image looks good. Feb 02 23:42:49 yeah, I searched for karma, and only got open bugs until I twiddled the url for that too Feb 02 23:42:54 re Feb 02 23:43:17 roope, doesnt it just :) nice and clear and simple Feb 02 23:43:18 Although the bottom strip of dates and numbers is a itsy bitsy small. Feb 02 23:43:26 At least on the target device screen. Feb 02 23:43:33 compared to 50% of screen space being just empty. Feb 02 23:44:42 I'm interesting in today and possibly tomorrow, so in that terms the sizing and the importance of some of the elements is perhaps a bit off. Feb 02 23:44:47 wazd, theres a point, does hte sky color change? Feb 02 23:44:51 or should it.. Feb 02 23:45:16 Why do people insist on using fixed-width layouts for NO REASON AT ALL. Feb 02 23:45:26 lardman_, use this: https://bugs.maemo.org/query.cgi Feb 02 23:45:38 GeneralAntilles: Because it's easier. Feb 02 23:45:50 Well, regarding text, there is an "optimum width" for a text column usually. Feb 02 23:46:06 a poorly designed non-fixed width layout fucks that up usually. Feb 02 23:46:06 GeneralAntilles: am half asleep, there's a field at the top to set the status you're looking for, ignore me Feb 02 23:46:08 roope: Yes. That would be the width of the window. Feb 02 23:46:55 user browsers should allow a floating customizable right margin for the user (like wordpad has - no wrap, to window, or to margin) Feb 02 23:46:57 derf: no. it's about 12 words per line. or about 35 ems. Feb 02 23:47:07 roope: Wrong. Feb 02 23:47:18 derf, not by a justifiable amount for most designs. Feb 02 23:47:26 derf: http://www.maxdesign.com.au/presentation/em/ Feb 02 23:47:32 night all Feb 02 23:47:40 f a well-designed column of text, or about 12 words per line. Research shows that reading slows and retention rates fall as line length begins to exceed the ideal width, because the reader then needs to use the muscles of the eye and neck to track from the end of one line to the beginning of the next line. Feb 02 23:47:40 give the user the choice :) you are both right in the right environment Feb 02 23:47:45 To quote the relevant part. Feb 02 23:47:59 roope, in this case, it's a site that requires me to scroll on the tablet because the min-width is 1024 Feb 02 23:48:09 Why? No reason. It's entirely arbitrary. Feb 02 23:48:12 generalantilles: well, of course that's then badly designed. Feb 02 23:48:20 roope, but that does not take into account distanct from the screen Feb 02 23:48:38 a user with good eyes and a screen further away still doesnt need to move his head Feb 02 23:48:45 roope, this is why we have max- and min-width. Feb 02 23:48:59 that is for book reading at a fixed "normal" reading distance Feb 02 23:49:08 Well yes, that's basically a rule used in book typography. Feb 02 23:49:12 Set min-width to the size just before the page starts breaking and max to keep text lines from getting too long. Feb 02 23:49:17 which incidentally is perfect for the tablets ;) Feb 02 23:49:17 roope: If I want the line shorter, I'll use smaller windows. Feb 02 23:49:26 The key words in that sentence are "I". Feb 02 23:49:28 generalantilles: yes, i agree with that. Feb 02 23:49:40 I'm with derf, though, for the most part. Feb 02 23:49:53 Most people don't bother to resize their windows, they keep them maximized. Feb 02 23:49:56 If you're making your browser window so wide that you can't read text, that's not the web designers fault. Feb 02 23:50:05 roope: Most people are idiots. Feb 02 23:50:10 It's lazy design work, leaving the blame up to the user. Feb 02 23:50:17 derf: most people are lazy. Feb 02 23:50:21 please for the love of god dont turn this into a dpad discussion :P give the users the option Feb 02 23:50:40 I think there's a difference between lazy and being an idiot. Feb 02 23:50:55 Lazyness is a good principle, it saves mental energy. Feb 02 23:51:03 I agree. I don't think either of us is incorrect in our assessments, however. Feb 02 23:51:23 roope, did you see the "wall of widgets" i rendered from the nokia competition Feb 02 23:51:31 its like a whole page of web ads Feb 02 23:51:34 I don't "resize" my browser windows. I keep them at one size. That size is not fullscreen. Feb 02 23:52:10 A failure of Windows perhaps Feb 02 23:52:31 * GeneralAntilles frequently forgets exactly how godawful it is and exactly how many people use it. Feb 02 23:52:59 windows xp is a really good window manager Feb 02 23:53:04 I have a mac at work and windows at home. It's good to know what people are using. Feb 02 23:53:11 "Well I know who I'm not voting for" seems to have replaced useful discussion for me. <_< Feb 02 23:53:16 Again, reusing known metaphors when possible. Feb 02 23:53:33 roope, no, mostly it just makes me depressed. :D Feb 02 23:53:39 for a keyboard mouse ui xp is second to none Feb 02 23:53:43 ;) Feb 02 23:53:44 * benson[away] vomits at thought of XP being a good WM. :p Feb 02 23:53:50 lcuk, bullshit. Feb 02 23:54:04 lcuk, for a UI lcuk is experienced with, XP is second to none. Feb 02 23:54:05 XP is rather good. I prefer it slightly over macosx. Feb 02 23:54:06 its faster and smoother than anything else Feb 02 23:54:14 I'm a recent wmii convert. Feb 02 23:54:17 lcuk, hardly, you're just more familiar with it than anything else. Feb 02 23:54:19 although now the mac app window logic is slowly growing on me. Feb 02 23:54:27 lcuk, I can apply the same logic to OS X. Feb 02 23:54:30 GeneralAntilles, i have ubuntu on my laptop Feb 02 23:54:35 I'm much more productive in it than Windows. Feb 02 23:54:47 and that argument would have just as much validity. ;) Feb 02 23:54:57 dont get me wrong, everytime i have an admin problem i think in the linux way now - it makes more sense Feb 02 23:55:10 Generally speaking, familiarity is more important than anything else about the UI. Feb 02 23:55:21 but theres too many things which dont quite work in ubuntu Feb 02 23:55:24 or kde Feb 02 23:55:31 lcuk, Ubuntu is a distribution Feb 02 23:55:36 Not a UI Feb 02 23:55:44 metacity then or whatever it is Feb 02 23:55:51 windows is also a distro ;) Feb 02 23:56:08 lcuk, you can't separate the Windows UI from the Windows "distro" Feb 02 23:56:29 generalantilles: Well, there's Aero and then the classic. Feb 02 23:56:32 They're quite different. Feb 02 23:56:39 no, but of all the window managers for mouse i have ever used, xp is the nicest :) Feb 02 23:56:40 OK, maybe I'd grant that GNOME is as bad as XP; I haven't used KDE in ages. Feb 02 23:56:51 But GNOME is pathetic. Feb 02 23:57:09 roope, lcuk, I still maintain that that has more to do with familiarity than anything else. :) Feb 02 23:57:20 s/roope, // Feb 02 23:57:21 GeneralAntilles meant: lcuk, I still maintain that that has more to do with familiarity than anything else. :) Feb 02 23:57:42 possible gen, the biggest killer is - i *HATE* using any of them with touch Feb 02 23:57:49 roope, "Ubuntu" can mean any number of window managers, the selection for "Windows" is much more limited. Feb 02 23:57:56 i hate having to waste 90% of my screen Feb 02 23:58:05 lcuk, well, duh, they're not designed for that. Feb 02 23:58:05 generalantilles: well, that's true. but there is more than one. :) Feb 02 23:58:12 no gen :) but what is Feb 02 23:58:35 lcuk, iPhone/iPod Touch Feb 02 23:58:39 lcuk, Maemo, for the most part. Feb 02 23:59:05 Fremantle will fix... plenty of it. Harmattan will fix just about everything else left. Feb 02 23:59:26 roope, let's hope. ;) Feb 02 23:59:43 :) liqbase runs nicely on my tablet. i think i'll have my nervana before harmattan Feb 02 23:59:45 Well, I tend to know this. ;) Feb 03 00:00:16 +sp ;) Feb 03 00:00:21 roope, it's also a matter of opinion. Feb 03 00:00:36 generalantilles: that's of course true. People won't agree with all the solutions we will have. Feb 03 00:00:39 I frequently don't see eye-to-eye with you on what makes a "good" UI. Feb 03 00:00:40 That's just a fact of life. Feb 03 00:00:59 Yes, that's true. It's good to argue about those things. Feb 03 00:01:17 There isn't any one good UI style and others being bad. Feb 03 00:01:22 Honestly, I'd settle for just having existing things actually work. <_< Feb 03 00:01:30 i wouldn't. Feb 03 00:01:34 (well, not that it would be bad, but) Feb 03 00:01:41 The present UI isn't good enough, by far. Feb 03 00:01:43 a good UI is logical, discoverable, and efficient Feb 03 00:01:51 Please, dear god, test the virtual input before you release this time around. Feb 03 00:02:28 I've suffered with more input bugs in Chinook and Diablo (90% of them regressions from Bora) than I care to think about. Feb 03 00:02:52 There were lots of bugs relating to input and the browser. Feb 03 00:03:00 They have their own widgets, so. Feb 03 00:03:01 Yes, none of them fixed. Feb 03 00:03:12 Even though they were filed almost on day 1 of Chinook. Feb 03 00:03:26 Yes, that, and xterm. Feb 03 00:03:32 But the return key on the finger keyboard only works about 20% of the time. Feb 03 00:03:37 speaking of xterm Feb 03 00:03:39 The rest of the time it just closes it. Feb 03 00:03:45 the fremantle xterm won't let me make selections Feb 03 00:03:51 instead it does panning Feb 03 00:03:53 who said ui?) Feb 03 00:03:55 which is um. pissing me off Feb 03 00:04:00 timeless, double-tap? Feb 03 00:04:36 still triggers panning North Feb 03 00:05:42 I'd say it this way that Fremantle will be a lot closer to what I think of a good UI to be than the previous efforts. Feb 03 00:05:53 http://tabletui.wordpress.com/2009/02/03/nokia-n97-widget-contest/ <- ciroip's widget Feb 03 00:06:00 +1 roope Feb 03 00:06:14 lcuk, you haven't even seen it. :P Feb 03 00:06:40 no, but ive been listening to what is being said :) Feb 03 00:07:53 There's virtue in saying too little instead of too much beforehand. Feb 03 00:08:44 I need to figure out who we need to talk to about h-a-m improvements since m-vo seems to no longer be on the case. :\ Feb 03 00:08:47 Which is of course not very "open source" in some terms. Feb 03 00:09:21 roope, a cathederal model of open source helps in some regards Feb 03 00:09:31 especially when you are preparing things Feb 03 00:09:34 why, just look at fedora! Feb 03 00:11:55 I guess Pandora put in so my hard keys just to spite us. Feb 03 00:13:37 It's a gaming device. Feb 03 00:13:41 * b-man nearly drives himself crazy trying to re-build all the packages from mer/deblet repo for ubuntu repo - but he is allmost 50% done :) Feb 03 00:13:43 You need buttons for that. Feb 03 00:13:53 Touch screens don't suffice (especially not resistive ones). Feb 03 00:14:10 Well. The biggest boost in mobile gaming over the past decade has come from the iPhone. Feb 03 00:14:42 There's been these mobile gaming devices now for a decade or so. Starting from nintendo gameboy. Or more than a decade. Feb 03 00:14:53 nintendo ds beats iphone Feb 03 00:15:13 and their games are playable for longer Feb 03 00:15:19 they can have a wider variety Feb 03 00:15:29 cos you can use the device in various "modes" Feb 03 00:16:00 not restricted really to tilt is everything (dont get me wrong, its amazingly intuitive for some things) Feb 03 00:16:07 * b-man likes the Sony PSP :) Feb 03 00:16:46 omg Feb 03 00:17:01 how can you compare ds or psp with ithin Feb 03 00:17:19 have you ever played igame? Feb 03 00:17:23 naturally there are differences with a gaming-only device compared to a device that does games too. Feb 03 00:17:43 Yes, seriously, the DS kills the iPhone. Feb 03 00:17:44 I'm personally much more interested in the latter, since the possible user base will be larger, and much more diverse. Feb 03 00:17:47 10 minutes is "whoa, thats a long one!" Feb 03 00:18:24 I don't much care for the iPhone games. Feb 03 00:18:41 gan, roope has a point - you dont but many do Feb 03 00:18:43 It's difficult to play anything I'd be interested in playing with only accelerometers and a touchscreen. Feb 03 00:19:03 I don't see why hard buttons are so evil. Feb 03 00:19:03 heh shh, the nintendo wii shows new types of games arrive Feb 03 00:19:13 I think casual gaming is a very interesting trend. Feb 03 00:19:14 but even that is a multi function device ;) Feb 03 00:19:19 The DS is $130. Feb 03 00:19:25 Used ones are even cheaper. Feb 03 00:19:36 How much does that iPhone cost again? Feb 03 00:19:40 roope, and with nice fast everything we will have it Feb 03 00:19:54 I think there's really a stigma associated with gaming devices (and pda's). Many people don't want to be seen out in the public with one. Feb 03 00:19:58 There isn't such a stigma with mobile phones. Feb 03 00:20:32 ive always been shocked at the lack of touchable games for the tablets Feb 03 00:20:32 anyway, if I won't need internet connection - I'd prefer psp to DS Feb 03 00:20:52 cause it has larger screen :) Feb 03 00:20:53 lcuk: well, yes, that's volumes and the lack of proper development environments. Feb 03 00:20:58 The potential would be there. Feb 03 00:21:28 roope: I don't think it has anything to do with the device itself. Many people don't want to be seen playing games in public. Feb 03 00:21:31 * lcuk can see the potential infront of his eyes :() Feb 03 00:21:34 :) Feb 03 00:21:50 derf, yeah right! on the bus you see loads Feb 03 00:21:57 phones are wild for it Feb 03 00:22:04 derf: well, yes. partly depends on how you define a game. they don't want to be pushing buttons rapidly and staring at the screen intensively. Feb 03 00:22:09 captive audience Feb 03 00:22:15 gotta find something to do Feb 03 00:22:34 lcuk: Yes. But those same people would be just as happy doing that with a DS. Feb 03 00:22:39 (which is true for nearly all mobile apps). Traditional games are heavily focused on pressing buttons lots of times and being ... reacting and being quick. Feb 03 00:22:41 yes, they would Feb 03 00:23:02 derf, but having totally new ways to play makes it interesting Feb 03 00:23:04 Millions of non-gamers play Minesweeper or Solitaire on their Windows. Feb 03 00:23:27 And ... parents. People who you would think never to play anythign. Feb 03 00:23:27 lcuk: I agree. That was the whole point of the Wii. The DS, too, for that matter. That's what Nintendo _does_. Feb 03 00:23:57 roope :) we will have a nice playground for them very soon Feb 03 00:24:29 iPhone has some of those success stories already. developers making fairly decent sums of money. Feb 03 00:24:34 roope: I will refer you to http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2007/12/3/ Feb 03 00:24:51 monetization is also a part. if you can develop for the iPhone - and see it in the app. store for some $$$ - versus giving it out for free. Feb 03 00:25:10 the app store is a really clever part of the puzzle. it makes it easy for developers to get money, they don't need to handle the sales themselvse. Feb 03 00:25:16 * lcuk can see a very viable open source app store principle working Feb 03 00:25:24 * timeless grumbles Feb 03 00:25:42 roope: windows are things like doors and ovis Feb 03 00:25:48 you can pin things to both Feb 03 00:25:57 ... erm. Feb 03 00:25:58 but other than chopsticks, you don't play on them Feb 03 00:26:09 You kind of lost me right there. :) Feb 03 00:26:18 you abused a noun Feb 03 00:26:20 stop doin ghtat Feb 03 00:26:25 s/n/ng/ Feb 03 00:26:25 timeless meant: stop doing ghtat Feb 03 00:26:30 s/n g/ng/ Feb 03 00:26:30 timeless meant: stop doinghtat Feb 03 00:26:34 * timeless gives up Feb 03 00:26:54 oh. on their Windows systems. Feb 03 00:27:06 Sorry. :) Feb 03 00:29:05 ~ burn infobot Feb 03 00:29:08 * infobot pours gasoline all over infobot, ignites the fire, and then enjoys some toasty marshmallows with the glorious blaze Feb 03 00:29:33 hehe - i could not rezist Feb 03 00:31:04 I'm quite skeptical towards open source app. stores. (well, depending what they mean.) but anyway, I assume that the monetization would be somehow different. Feb 03 00:31:47 roope, its just an idea ive got rolling around my head :) Feb 03 00:31:52 ~burn himself Feb 03 00:31:53 * infobot pours gasoline all over himself, ignites the fire, and then enjoys some toasty marshmallows with the glorious blaze Feb 03 00:32:04 that's better) Feb 03 00:32:05 lol Feb 03 00:32:22 nice : Feb 03 00:32:25 ) Feb 03 00:40:56 k, gtg 2 sleep, c ya tomorrow :) Feb 03 00:41:27 Tomorrow I begin "wazd vs forecast-providers" case :) Feb 03 02:34:18 Hi, pardon me for a silly question about Hildon Input method Feb 03 02:35:29 It seems that the IME is working as a plugin in HIM, So , is that possible that the UI and Engine of a specific input method been implemented in two plugins? Feb 03 02:36:39 so that UI can be different for an engine, or UI can use different engines Feb 03 02:36:51 so you wanna us IME as an HIM to the UI for the NIT? Feb 03 02:36:58 ^_^ Feb 03 02:37:36 sorry, i just wanted to type that sentence, i don't really have anything constructive to say.. ^_^ Feb 03 02:37:54 :) so what's NIT? Feb 03 02:38:00 Nokia Internet Tablet Feb 03 02:38:43 i realize your question wasn't necessarily hardware or platform specific. but i figured i'd throw it in there for completeness Feb 03 02:38:49 =) Feb 03 02:38:55 * Mousey is helpful! Feb 03 02:39:31 OKay, well , yes, actuall I got little knowledge to HIM any information is welcome Feb 03 02:40:12 another place to find 411 on the IME plugin for HIM usage with the UI on the NIT, is ITT, if they don't have it, you might be SOL Feb 03 02:40:23 =D Feb 03 02:40:39 * Mousey is on a roll, and apologizes for his bountiful asshattery Feb 03 02:42:05 so again, ITT ? Feb 03 02:44:06 Well, I guess I would like to describe my question in another way Feb 03 02:46:02 Say, If I want to implement an Virtual keyboard which can use diffirent CJK languages IME, is that possible? say VKB using several IME, Can they all be seperate plugins? Feb 03 02:47:12 it seems to me that at one time only one plugin can be running and communicate between plugins is not easy? Feb 03 02:51:50 RaymondL: Last I checked maemocjk used scim, which can use, e.g., anthy, skk, etc. as plugins, and switch between them. Feb 03 02:52:00 Independently for each window. Feb 03 02:53:28 derf: Yes, I can see that scim is well designed to be able to separate panel, engine, frontend into different modules to be freely combined Feb 03 02:53:51 derf: Well I am wondering , is that possible for hildon input method itself? Feb 03 02:54:02 I have no idea. Feb 03 02:54:22 My point was maemocjk was using scim _as_ the HIM. Feb 03 02:57:43 OK, Got it :) When can Nokia opensource it's HIM plugins :) Feb 03 02:58:34 An excellent question. But maemocjk isn't technically theirs: http://maemocjk.garage.maemo.org/ Feb 03 02:58:58 Is CJK still being maintained? Feb 03 02:59:02 They really need to change the name. Feb 03 02:59:20 GeneralAntilles: No idea, but the primary author works for Nokia. Feb 03 02:59:41 Trademark violation **** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Feb 03 02:59:57 2009