**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Feb 08 02:59:57 2009 Feb 08 03:00:06 i dunno which version, but he was flashing a ti emu screen a couple of days ago Feb 08 03:02:21 TI-85 Feb 08 03:02:53 GA: do you have a link? I'm having trouble finding it Feb 08 03:08:25 jaem, wazd's mockups are somewhere in the logs from the last few days. Feb 08 03:08:35 I don't have anything handy and I'm waaaay too lazy to hunt it down. :P Feb 08 03:09:02 fair enough - I'm just confused, because as far as I knew, no one else was interested in doing anything with TilEm Feb 08 03:12:23 jaem, talk with RST38h Feb 08 03:55:29 * jaem is no more enlightened after 40 minutes looking through IRC logs... Feb 08 03:55:34 I'll talk to RST38h Feb 08 04:40:42 Is there a webmaster contact address for Nokia? Feb 08 04:41:00 according to them, my tablet was shipped by NULL, and I can track it at http://nul/ XD Feb 08 04:41:13 lol Feb 08 04:41:23 and their survey is broken, so my browser flags it as clickjacking Feb 08 04:41:51 El Goog told me that NULL is, in fact, UPS Feb 08 04:42:01 but their system is down for the evening Feb 08 04:42:04 so that doesn't help me Feb 08 04:45:53 >_< I almost Kraft-Dinner'd my headset mic Feb 08 04:46:04 * jaem is absent-minded Feb 08 04:58:47 Evening, tim. Feb 08 04:59:14 Hey, how it it? Feb 08 05:01:05 Warming up. ;) Feb 08 05:01:22 Hehe. We've been at 70+ degrees for three days! :) Feb 08 05:01:34 It's quite a break. Feb 08 05:05:04 GeneralAntilles: No worries if you're busy (or, gee, going to bed?), but... You would happen to run Ubuntu via Parallels on a Mac, would you? Feb 08 05:05:06 <`0660> here it has been 100+ degrees for three days :) Feb 08 05:05:43 `0660: You in Australia or something? Feb 08 05:05:49 timsamoff, PPC-only. :) Feb 08 05:06:02 GeneralAntilles: Oh, ok. Feb 08 05:06:10 <`0660> yeah, canberra Feb 08 05:06:38 `0660: Nice... Wish I was there! :)' Feb 08 05:07:31 GeneralAntilles: I'm having the strangest problem... I have internet via the Parallels-to-Mac "wired connection," but I can't get anything to POST (or upload or whatever). Arg. Feb 08 05:07:31 <`0660> i don't :) Feb 08 05:07:36 Hehe. Feb 08 05:07:48 <`0660> it's a bit too hot for mmy taste :) Feb 08 05:08:10 We've been under 0ª F for a while now, so warm weather (even hot) sounds nice. Feb 08 05:08:34 timsamoff, why Parallels, by the way? Feb 08 05:08:39 VMWare should work fine (if not better). Feb 08 05:09:47 Parallels is what I have -- you, know... Paid for and everything. Like, legit. So... Trying to make it work. And, mostly, it works amazingly well -- absolutely no CPU reduction and full dual-core supprt. Feb 08 05:10:38 But, no "Cohesion" support (like with Windows)... Yet. Feb 08 05:12:47 does VMWare Server not have a free version for Mac? Feb 08 05:13:08 (just out of curiousity) Feb 08 05:14:01 Yes... It does. But, Parallels has more "seamless" integration with OS X... Not, that I really _need_ it, but... It's nice. Feb 08 05:14:01 We've been just over freezing the last couple days. :( Feb 08 05:14:19 * benson hates riding in slush. Feb 08 05:14:37 * timsamoff hates cleaning sluch off of my son! Feb 08 05:14:48 *slush Feb 08 05:14:49 we've been slush-free for a while now, but there's still snow here Feb 08 05:15:16 Our town is known for sluch -- never cold long enough for snow to stay -- and it rains too often. Feb 08 05:15:45 I'd rather either cold, or warm enough to dry out. 100F might be a bit much, though. Feb 08 05:16:03 * timsamoff thinks it's funny that beer makes me type sluch instead of slush. Feb 08 05:17:00 I'm used to 100º from growing up in Southern California. Where I am now (Kansas City), 100º usually means 100% humidity as well... That's not...fun...at...all. Feb 08 05:17:01 it is supose to be 57 F here :) Feb 08 05:17:17 timsamoff: its so hot, they are having lots of fires Feb 08 05:17:19 But, GeneralAntilles should know a little about humidity. ;) Feb 08 05:17:42 <`0660> luckily it's not humid in here Feb 08 05:17:51 I think parts of .au have been over 115°F last week... so consider yourself lucky! Feb 08 05:17:53 fireun: Hot + Fires = nothing good. Feb 08 05:18:11 they're having a hard time with em, from what I'm told Feb 08 05:18:35 Yeah... I've never had to evacuate, but it's been close... Like a couple of block away. Feb 08 05:18:49 It's fun swimming around outside down here in the summer. :P Feb 08 05:19:16 Man... It's hard to get used to sweating all of the time... Even after living here for so many years. Feb 08 05:21:54 i've had to deal with sleeping in 80+ F weather when camping in a tent in the Florida Keys the summer before last - not fun ;p Feb 08 05:22:31 No no no... Hot camping is almost impossible. I camped for 7 days in Joshua Tree National Forest one summer... Wow. Feb 08 05:22:49 0_o wow Feb 08 05:23:05 I tried to sleep thru 108 on a lake once Feb 08 05:23:07 impossible Feb 08 05:23:16 XD Feb 08 05:23:48 never been so misserable Feb 08 05:24:12 although living thru a florida summer is pretty gnarly Feb 08 05:24:53 I did a video shoot in Fort Meyer, FL and had to dress in almost nothing -- the people in the shoot laughed at me. Feb 08 05:25:41 * b-man spent countless summers in california in 107+ heat - he eventually adapted to it Feb 08 05:26:01 jaem: Looks like I was wrong: VMWare Server is only availble for Linux and Windows. Feb 08 05:26:20 b-man: I grew up there and never adapted! Feb 08 05:26:22 You get used to it eventually Feb 08 05:26:31 What sucks is near-freezing weather at high humidity. Feb 08 05:26:42 Ice storms! :p Feb 08 05:26:48 We love those here... Not. Feb 08 05:26:58 I'm almost happy when it gets below freezing because the cold is much less biting at 30°F than it is at 35°F Feb 08 05:27:00 timsmoff: hehe :) Feb 08 05:27:04 They happen every year: power outages, no work, etc. Feb 08 05:27:19 timsamoff: I wasn't sure, but I thought I'd mention it, since I've used it in the past, and it worked well Feb 08 05:27:41 "almost" happy? I'm _definitely_ happy... Feb 08 05:27:54 jaem: Yeah, I thought it was available, because I've used it too... But, I think I must have been on a PeeCee. Feb 08 05:27:56 benson, almost because it is colder. :P Feb 08 05:28:17 We never get precipitation when it gets below 40°F, so meh. Feb 08 05:28:32 GeneralAntilles: Your summations are exactly what my theory is... I'd rather it be 20º than 35º! Feb 08 05:28:54 Pffttt... -10 is cold; +30 isn't. You Floridians don't know about cold. Feb 08 05:29:26 We had a wind chill of -20 last week, but... Minnesota has -30! Feb 08 05:29:40 Actually, I meant -50. Feb 08 05:29:43 I'm glad we don't get that sort of cold weather in British Columbia Feb 08 05:29:49 Wow. Frostbte in 3 minutes. Feb 08 05:29:50 at least ,not where I live Feb 08 05:29:58 definitely elsewhere Feb 08 05:30:04 * benson shivers. Feb 08 05:30:16 * jaem hands benson a mug of hot chocolate Feb 08 05:30:21 Maybe Hoosiers don't know about cold, either. Feb 08 05:30:31 Ha! Feb 08 05:30:59 Although I don't really track windchill so I don't know haow that compares to re. Feb 08 05:31:09 * timsamoff doesn't think hot chocolate would go well with stout, but I wouldn't pass up the chance to try. Feb 08 05:31:34 benson: It's friggin' cold all the same. Feb 08 05:31:40 ...I read "stdout" for a minute :X Feb 08 05:31:57 Ha ha ha! Feb 08 05:32:21 and by the way, I'm not sure what that emoticon was... it was meant to be a XD Feb 08 05:32:32 benson, sure, but how well do _you_ handle 101°F and 200% humidity? :P Feb 08 05:32:54 Handle it? I flee. :p Feb 08 05:32:57 That was quite a laugh -- punched me right out. Feb 08 05:33:12 it's not as bad if you express it in Celsius Feb 08 05:33:14 * b-man could handle it.... for 5 minutes Feb 08 05:33:26 XD Feb 08 05:34:52 *facepalm* Feb 08 05:34:56 http://mozphone.com/ Feb 08 05:35:05 They have got to be kidding Feb 08 05:35:09 OLED keys. . . . Feb 08 05:35:24 hey - it would be cool... Feb 08 05:35:37 if excessive, and likely to impoverish anyone who bought it Feb 08 05:35:59 It's amazing that they could put out something as ridiculous as the Optimus Maximus as drive it with shitty silicone nipples. Feb 08 05:36:03 OLED keys are just...cool. Feb 08 05:36:20 Optimus Phonimus? Feb 08 05:36:27 Optimus Minimus? Feb 08 05:36:40 Prime. Feb 08 05:36:48 Optimus' ? Feb 08 05:36:58 d/dO ? Feb 08 05:38:18 from the blog that GA linked.. http://mozphone.com/2009/01/26/moving-non-euclidean-geometry-to-physical-form/ Feb 08 05:38:27 that is the worst idea I have seen today Feb 08 05:38:30 * benson is watching that... Feb 08 05:38:33 Btw, I sent a link to the non-euclidian web browser to timeless, but never got a response. I think it's a pretty amazing idea. Feb 08 05:38:53 It was months ago. Feb 08 05:39:06 Ah, so that's how they let you click on things. Feb 08 05:39:13 I can only guess that they attempted to turn the bouncing lens screensaver into something useful, and didn't realize that they had failed. Feb 08 05:39:20 Still looks clumsy and awkward. Feb 08 05:39:43 It obscures far too much of what you're looking at. Feb 08 05:40:03 But, the idea of centralizing your focal point is interesting. Feb 08 05:40:55 The sad thing about the Optimus is that can you can $20 on an old Model M and get 10x the keyboard for 1/100th of the price. Feb 08 05:41:17 Similar concept can work well for navigating long lists, because you can change text size of list items without distortion. Feb 08 05:41:34 But on a webpage, you make nearby elements unreadable. Feb 08 05:41:43 Like a carousel menu? Feb 08 05:45:22 I can't find it now, but some research group's site from the 90s had a js demo of it. Feb 08 05:45:40 Not sure about a carousel menu... Feb 08 05:46:24 Oh, one of _those_... Not really, but sort of. Feb 08 05:46:41 Sorry... Guess I meant "dock" menu Like OS X: http://www.ndesign-studio.com/demo/css-dock-menu/css-dock.html Feb 08 05:46:54 But with a list. Feb 08 05:46:58 More like that, but with text Feb 08 05:47:02 Yes. Feb 08 05:50:05 The problem with using an element-specific option is that you have to "embed" the code in the html... Using a "warp" effect can alter whatever is "under" it and doesn't have to rely on the page's code. Feb 08 05:51:07 I was thinking in more general terms of where it's useful and where not, and ruling out browsers entirely. Feb 08 05:51:37 OTOH, you could make a seriously modded rendering engine that would do it for general HTML. Feb 08 05:51:43 Right. But, the example was a web browser, so... Feb 08 05:51:49 It would just be horribly ugly and probably slow. Feb 08 05:52:10 Yes. It would defintitely screw the original page design. Feb 08 05:53:13 It might even make MicroB's "Fit to width" seem good, though I'd hope it's not *that* slow. Feb 08 05:53:42 "Fit to width" should die. Does anyone use that? Feb 08 05:54:05 But I was basically saying that the "noneuclidean" concept was not trash, only their application of it to browsers. Feb 08 05:54:24 I have, occasionally; on very simple pages it can work. Feb 08 05:54:29 But almost never. Feb 08 05:54:47 * timsamoff says "Never." :p Feb 08 05:54:50 It's so bad 99% of the time. Feb 08 05:55:04 timsamoff, it's gone in Fremantle. Feb 08 05:55:46 GeneralAntilles: Good. Feb 08 05:55:55 * timsamoff wonders how GeneralAntilles knows that! ;) Feb 08 05:56:19 Probably the "Fixed in Fremantle" in the corresponding bug... Feb 08 05:56:44 True. Feb 08 05:56:45 (Just guessing, I don't remember that bug specifically.) Feb 08 05:58:22 timsamoff, I know everything. :P Feb 08 05:58:27 Alternatively: paying attention. ;) Feb 08 05:58:44 GeneralAntilles just has too much time on his hads. :p Feb 08 05:58:53 Something like that. :) Feb 08 05:59:23 https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3152#c5 Feb 08 06:00:09 Interesting Feb 08 06:02:03 It's inherited stupidity from Opera. Feb 08 06:02:08 Should've gone out the door with Bora. Feb 08 06:03:56 IIRC, Opera's implementation was somewhat useful. When Microb's wasn't, that should have been a clue... Feb 08 06:04:33 * benson wonders how many newbs got bit on that feature. Feb 08 06:05:18 * timsamoff still pines for the responsiveness of Opera. Feb 08 06:05:31 ... Feb 08 06:05:34 timsamoff: try webkit-eal? Feb 08 06:05:52 If MicroB's responsiveness is _worse_ than Opera's, I'll make a note to never actually upgrade. Feb 08 06:06:10 Opera's responsiveness is pretty bad. Feb 08 06:06:46 benson: I haven't had the time/pateince to try that on the tablet Feb 08 06:07:14 derf: But, MicroB is much better (page rendering) anyway. Feb 08 06:07:35 I don't care how it looks, for the most part. Feb 08 06:07:42 imho, no clear responsiveness difference between newer microb and opera, but it's been awhile. Feb 08 06:07:55 derf, what are you using? Feb 08 06:08:01 GeneralAntilles: Bora. Feb 08 06:08:07 :shudder: Feb 08 06:08:08 Why? Feb 08 06:08:17 Opera opened a lot faster, imho... But, page rendering...? Feb 08 06:08:25 Because I can't be bothered to reflash the device? Feb 08 06:08:33 derf, you use the thing don't you, though? Feb 08 06:08:40 Yes. Feb 08 06:08:48 But after reflashing, all upgrases are done wirelessly! Feb 08 06:08:54 I mean, besides laziness, what's keeping you from gaining an extra 70MHz and much better software? :P Feb 08 06:08:58 derf: reflash once, and you'll be up-to-date for all diablo patches... Feb 08 06:09:17 Actually, I may be using Chinook. I forget. Feb 08 06:09:29 I'm pretty sure I have the extra 70 MHz. Feb 08 06:09:38 Unless you did some fancy work to get Opera running, you're not Chinook. Feb 08 06:09:43 derf, are the sidebars transparent? Feb 08 06:09:46 Chinook has MicroB. Feb 08 06:09:54 GeneralAntilles: No. Feb 08 06:10:03 Chinook had the option to switch back and forth, didn't it? Feb 08 06:10:07 Or was that Bora? Feb 08 06:10:12 (By defult, I mean.) Feb 08 06:10:16 timsamoff, Bora with the beta installed. Feb 08 06:10:37 In Bora, MicroB was available as a separate beta, which could swap in and out, but not preinstalled/ Feb 08 06:10:50 http://www.photolulu.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/07/screenshot-2007-07-06-22-12.jpg http://madabar.com/exailemaemo/exaile_maemo4_20071205.png Feb 08 06:10:52 * benson types too much and/or slow. Feb 08 06:10:54 derf, one or two? Feb 08 06:11:20 Actually, this page has a side-by-side: http://madabar.com/exailemaemo/ Feb 08 06:11:53 1. Feb 08 06:11:59 Bora Feb 08 06:12:04 Ugh Feb 08 06:12:06 derf, really, upgrade. :P Feb 08 06:12:10 ~flashing Feb 08 06:12:23 rumour has it, flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware Feb 08 06:12:24 Benson: Installing Webkit-eal now. Feb 08 06:12:38 Honestly, I use 3 applications: Maemo mapper, the browser, and ssh. Feb 08 06:12:42 I wish the WebKit people would pack them up for Extras already. Feb 08 06:12:50 timsamoff: Cool. It's much better, IMHO. Feb 08 06:13:00 derf, well, the first two will benefit a lot from OS2008. Feb 08 06:13:06 Faster, does full-blown GMail, everything. Feb 08 06:13:18 WebKit will be good when the rough edges are sanded off. Feb 08 06:13:27 Mostly, though, for now, it's trading one set of pains for another. Feb 08 06:13:53 Well, it does downloads now. (That was my biggest problem for a while...) Feb 08 06:14:19 All I heard about MicroB was people complaining that it would hang, crash, or have issues with whatever daemon it runs... Feb 08 06:14:27 ...none of this made me want to upgrade. Feb 08 06:14:38 derf, people like to complain Feb 08 06:14:46 People rarely say anything when something works well. Feb 08 06:14:53 Heheh. When have you heard someone talk avbout how things are going smoothly. Feb 08 06:14:59 MicroB has its own share of issues, but they're much less than Opera these days. Feb 08 06:15:08 ~lart GeneralAntilles for touchtyping. Feb 08 06:15:08 * infobot rm -rf's GeneralAntilles for touchtyping. Feb 08 06:15:32 benson, my USB Model M kicks ur ass. :P Feb 08 06:16:05 I have a no-name keyboard, _and_ can't type. :p Feb 08 06:16:33 I have an 11% stout and can't type. Feb 08 06:16:53 timsamoff: s/have/had/ ? Feb 08 06:16:57 I don't know how anybody can use a computer as much as people do today and not learn how to type. :P Feb 08 06:17:05 or spell Feb 08 06:17:08 or punctuate Feb 08 06:17:20 But it's a cool keyboard, because it has no Caps Lock key. I shaved the lettering off and rebadged it with a black square. Feb 08 06:17:32 Man the Beagle Board list is spammy. Feb 08 06:17:32 It's my WM modifier now. Feb 08 06:17:40 I never learned how to type, but I'm the fastes hunt and pecker you've ever seen... No joke please. :p Feb 08 06:17:57 jaem /almostdone Feb 08 06:17:59 ;) Feb 08 06:18:01 timsamoff:I'm maybe faster. Feb 08 06:18:11 Hehe. Feb 08 06:18:12 or maybe not. Feb 08 06:18:49 GeneralAntilles: I always enjoy the "hackers" in movies that can't type. Feb 08 06:18:50 I don't really hunt/peck; I use all 8 fingers, in fairly touch-like fashion, but not really. Feb 08 06:18:57 And I also have to watch. Feb 08 06:19:00 As epitomized by the movie Hackers itself. Feb 08 06:19:04 I _really_ wish I learned when I was in high school, but I convinced the teacher I knew about computers. Feb 08 06:19:11 derf: Oh yes, those are always funny. Feb 08 06:20:10 Of course, hich school for me wasn't long after we were programming baic on C64w. Feb 08 06:20:16 *basic Feb 08 06:20:24 I had typing lessons from 2nd through 10th Feb 08 06:20:36 I had them throughout elementary school Feb 08 06:20:41 http://www.istockphoto.com/file_closeup/business/business-symbols-metaphors/6452867-computer-hacker.php?id=6452867 Feb 08 06:21:01 Stock video of a "hacker"; I cracked up when I saw it. Feb 08 06:21:13 before we got on the computers, we had small red keyboards with a (1x16?) char LCD, that would administer tests from a ring-bound book Feb 08 06:21:22 the test book was actually pretty bad... Feb 08 06:21:37 benson, I think that hacker just pwned you. Feb 08 06:21:50 Benson: That is GOLD! Feb 08 06:22:04 the last test was a fake letter to a company, complaining about how their products led to the deaths of the guy's whole family... and at the end, the letter says "and btw, this letter is coated in anthrx" Feb 08 06:22:07 Leather gloves: they make my typing more lethal. Feb 08 06:22:10 and this was meant for kids... Feb 08 06:22:11 "OK, now find the return key . . ." Feb 08 06:22:28 Hehehe! Feb 08 06:22:46 My leather gloves usually just get sweaty inside. Feb 08 06:22:51 um... Feb 08 06:22:55 that's ridiculous Feb 08 06:25:11 goodnight... (System is going down for reboot NOW!) Feb 08 06:25:23 night. Feb 08 06:25:45 night Feb 08 06:29:56 All right... I think I gotta go now too. Feb 08 06:41:23 urglburgle Feb 08 08:05:15 morning Feb 08 08:16:42 hEllo world Feb 08 08:18:19 morning timeless Feb 08 08:21:43 * Stskeeps takes a look at enus locales Feb 08 08:23:29 timelE61i: .. should i be worried the source package for osso-applet-textinput also includes da_DK which doesn't look like a timeless production? Feb 08 08:36:04 morning daperl Feb 08 08:36:57 yo Feb 08 08:38:47 stuff compiled, but the first libhal fails for an unknown reason Feb 08 08:38:54 *nod* Feb 08 08:38:58 does anybody install the gimp on n800? lol Feb 08 08:39:10 so, no client as of yet Feb 08 08:39:11 http://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/mer-wicked.png Feb 08 08:39:27 daperl: what did you attempt? compiling hald-addon-retu-adc? Feb 08 08:40:03 wow Feb 08 08:40:05 gimp Feb 08 08:40:14 dexterk: it's practically unusable Feb 08 08:40:21 oh.. Feb 08 08:40:35 due to the way hildon acts with it Feb 08 08:40:39 yes, compiled that and it's broke Feb 08 08:41:10 daperl: i think it would be ran together with hald when it boots up, when the fdi refers to it Feb 08 08:41:18 as in, hald starting it Feb 08 08:41:24 (im not sure) Feb 08 08:41:33 hald-addon-bme cannot be started independently for instance Feb 08 08:41:57 i think you're right Feb 08 08:42:00 sts: not worried Feb 08 08:42:07 can maemo /mplayer play rmvb files? Feb 08 08:42:07 timelE61i: mmk Feb 08 08:42:17 The dev scripts should only build enUS Feb 08 08:42:30 I should really fix it not to include the others Feb 08 08:43:12 yeah, could be an idea, as it puts a small wrench in including source package in mer repository for instance otherwise Feb 08 08:43:14 perhaps i should be worried, it was more of a convenience to be able to diff/compare w/ the original Feb 08 08:43:18 *nod* Feb 08 08:43:22 Why? Feb 08 08:43:28 what UDI should i use? an retu udi or bme Feb 08 08:43:33 oh, legal Feb 08 08:43:42 Yeah wait for 0.1.2 Feb 08 08:43:46 alright Feb 08 08:43:49 I'll delete them Feb 08 08:44:22 daperl: just take retu udi and then when you build the BME stuff, extend it if needed Feb 08 08:44:25 or something Feb 08 08:46:38 Sts: if you're in a hurry, find . -name *.po |grep -v en-US Feb 08 08:46:57 Or something .. xargs rm Feb 08 08:47:12 timelE61i: *nod* nah, not in a hurry, i have other priorities in this sprint right now so Feb 08 08:47:28 are there download stats for packages? Feb 08 08:47:58 And is there any feedback (negative appreciated, i have a couple dozen changes to make) Feb 08 08:49:06 mm, not from me just yet, i didn't look too closely just yet - i will have more constructive things later today Feb 08 08:49:13 need to send gf off to berlin again so Feb 08 08:50:04 * timelE61i pulls out Skype Feb 08 08:50:13 the strings there need love Feb 08 09:32:19 morning qwerty12 Feb 08 09:32:32 hi Stskeeps :) Feb 08 09:38:32 hey people Feb 08 09:38:44 hi Corsac Feb 08 09:40:04 * Stskeeps ponders when there's news from fosdem or beagleboard maemo5 reactions Feb 08 09:40:36 http://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4082 <-- Enhancement bug report to request open sourcing metalayer crawler. Feb 08 09:41:32 Voted. It's pretty crap atm, I think it could do with any help it gets... Feb 08 09:41:49 thanks :) Feb 08 09:42:01 :) Feb 08 09:43:16 kulve, you know Tracker's going go through its beta period on Diablo, right? Feb 08 09:44:16 GeneralAntilles: is that coming to n8x0 devices? Will the mediaplayer in n8x0 use that, ever? Feb 08 09:44:30 kulve, yes, Diablo is on N8x0. Feb 08 09:44:37 sorry, missed that part ;) Feb 08 09:44:50 Well, the Media Player just looks at the index metalayer-crawler generates, no? Feb 08 09:44:55 yes Feb 08 09:45:02 (afaik) Feb 08 09:45:08 So, just have Tracker generate that index instead? Feb 08 09:45:22 well, actually I think it does a bit more as it knows when the database is being updated.. Feb 08 09:45:29 Ah Feb 08 09:45:55 not sure if that's checked from the changes in the db, or asked from the mlc.. Feb 08 09:46:22 Well, my thought is just that it'd probably be easier to move forward with the already open solutions than try to get metalayer-crawler opened and THEN fix all of its brokeness. Feb 08 09:46:59 moving forward with closed source Media Player may not be easy.. Feb 08 09:47:54 and basically I just want to know how it works, not to fix it ;) Feb 08 09:48:57 If you just need information and not necessarily code, you may try that approach. Feb 08 09:55:23 metacrawler's effectively dead Feb 08 09:55:29 Tracker replaces it Feb 08 09:55:56 Nokia isn't likely to spend money to open a dead competing product Feb 08 09:56:14 I can ask qgil, he's standing next to me :) Feb 08 09:56:20 We're on the fosdem bus Feb 08 09:56:50 mediaplayer is the only thing using metalayer-crawler isnt it really? Feb 08 09:57:02 hi Feb 08 09:57:32 little question Feb 08 09:57:43 mm? Feb 08 09:58:07 Sounds right Feb 08 09:58:09 is there any way of running something like ubuntu mobile on the n810? Feb 08 09:58:44 Hehe Feb 08 09:59:12 P13|tablet: http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer , http://internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25975&highlight=ubuntu+jaunty is closest you get Feb 08 09:59:51 i've checked out mer a bit but it seems to be in quite an early stage Feb 08 10:00:08 it is, but then again it's as functional as ubuntu mobile would be on a tablet :P Feb 08 10:00:58 well i guess the main problems there are the kernel/modules and enough storage Feb 08 10:01:39 nah, not really Feb 08 10:01:57 then what is if i may ask? Feb 08 10:02:19 the main problem is that UM is a bit underdeveloped and requires stuff like clutter and flash in the fancy demos people have seen :P Feb 08 10:02:34 ah Feb 08 10:02:47 with Mer, it is simply cos of the fact we've been actively developing on it for two months now, and from what we've acheived, it's bloody impressive :) Feb 08 10:03:00 i would just like to run a full on distro on this Feb 08 10:03:03 so if you think it's in an early stage, sit down and help out, we need all hands Feb 08 10:03:21 you can :P mer is 96% of ubuntu packages possible for you Feb 08 10:03:31 i didnt say it wasn't impressive Feb 08 10:03:46 i said it seemed to be in early stages Feb 08 10:03:49 hehe Feb 08 10:03:51 that's true Feb 08 10:04:02 i can do localisation Feb 08 10:04:05 dutch Feb 08 10:04:20 *nod* know of how to deal with launchpad per chance? Feb 08 10:04:23 and their translations stuff Feb 08 10:04:28 nope Feb 08 10:05:19 k Feb 08 10:05:20 is nokia still actively working on an os for our devices? Feb 08 10:05:38 i bought a 770 when they came out Feb 08 10:06:01 for 770, N800, N810(W), no, you won't see fremantle - except in the form of Mer Feb 08 10:06:02 and boy did we get left out in the cold faxt or what Feb 08 10:06:13 great Feb 08 10:06:14 (we do have 770 support, and nokia is open to helping us out with hw interfacing and other things) Feb 08 10:06:28 i am on an 810 now Feb 08 10:07:00 i bought this pretty cheap Feb 08 10:07:10 yeah, they're dead cheap atm Feb 08 10:07:11 so thats why :) Feb 08 10:07:19 i have a n800 Feb 08 10:07:40 i would never pay full price for this anymore Feb 08 10:07:53 ans you just explained why Feb 08 10:08:05 no support anymore Feb 08 10:08:10 P13|tablet, hardly. Feb 08 10:08:15 and they do this every time Feb 08 10:08:26 Nokia's doing a lot to see Fremantle ported to N8x0s in the form of Mer. Feb 08 10:08:33 my 770 doesn't *NEED* a new OS Feb 08 10:08:35 P13|tablet: this time around it's different though Feb 08 10:08:54 community is mature enough to handle a backport project and nokia is open enough to it Feb 08 10:08:59 P13|tablet, the reality is is that the gulf between the OMAP2 devices and the upcoming OMAP3 device just can be bridged. Feb 08 10:09:14 s/can/can't/ Feb 08 10:09:14 GeneralAntilles meant: P13|tablet, the reality is is that the gulf between the OMAP2 devices and the upcoming OMAP3 device just can't be bridged. Feb 08 10:09:20 general, no, they are leaving the work up to you guys, they are throwing you crumbs Feb 08 10:09:33 P13|tablet, pfft. Feb 08 10:09:39 P13|tablet: on the other hand they've open sourced a complete commercial grade touch user interface Feb 08 10:09:42 P13|tablet, you say that from what informed position, exactly? Feb 08 10:09:54 and i am surprised with how much stuff we've been able to grab Feb 08 10:10:05 general, my couch Feb 08 10:10:29 i can only conclude that they did it again Feb 08 10:10:39 a position of little information and understanding Feb 08 10:10:44 P13|tablet, Nokia's providing an unprecedented level of support to the community backport. Feb 08 10:11:11 nice troll though Feb 08 10:11:13 still peanuts compared to taking it on themselves Feb 08 10:11:38 lol it seems this is a forbidden topic here Feb 08 10:11:45 They don't believe they can put together an official backport that will be up to snuff, so they're putting that effort and money into supporting the community's efforts. Feb 08 10:11:46 P13|tablet: on the other hand community gets the chance to do whatever fuck they want to the distro and shape it more sane.. :P Feb 08 10:11:47 must have struck a nerve Feb 08 10:12:06 P13|tablet, no, this is something we've all thought about and discussed and been involved in for a very long time. Feb 08 10:12:22 P13|tablet, so when people come in spewing FUD. . . . Feb 08 10:12:31 lol fud Feb 08 10:13:24 P13|tablet: nop, not a forbidden topic at all. honestly, i'm doing a lot less coding than i expected to do in this stuff, as we can practically just build most of the fremantle source trees Feb 08 10:13:33 i see facts and the fact is that they did the same thing as last time ... they also helped backport os 2007 to the 770 remember? Feb 08 10:13:33 and remix and reconstruct the distro Feb 08 10:13:46 P13|tablet: and os2008 Feb 08 10:13:51 yep Feb 08 10:13:54 P13|tablet, hardly. Feb 08 10:14:04 P13|tablet: No, they backported OS2007 to the 770; without any community involvement, nor ability for the community to be involved. Feb 08 10:14:09 Morning, all; btw Feb 08 10:14:15 They contracted somebody to toss what amounted to giant binaries out the door with no support at all. Feb 08 10:14:25 s/toss/toss out/ Feb 08 10:14:26 GeneralAntilles meant: They contracted somebody to toss out what amounted to giant binaries out the door with no support at all. Feb 08 10:14:37 er Feb 08 10:14:41 * GeneralAntilles dumbass. Feb 08 10:14:51 right, are they opening up h/w specs? Feb 08 10:14:57 they cant Feb 08 10:15:09 P13|tablet: this time around we have Mer on 770, N800, N810(W), beagleboard, pocket loox, x86.. Feb 08 10:15:11 P13|tablet, they talked the WiFi vendor into opening up their spec and now they're working on an open source driver. Feb 08 10:15:12 same distro fitting all sizes Feb 08 10:15:13 So, yes. Feb 08 10:15:31 sorry for the slow typing, mashing tiny kb Feb 08 10:16:20 will it be to the point where you can build a blob free kernel? Feb 08 10:16:27 P13|tablet: it is a blob free kernel atm Feb 08 10:16:36 with stlc45xx Feb 08 10:16:42 there's firmware, like on x86, but it's blob free Feb 08 10:16:42 with everything working? Feb 08 10:17:02 all the hw? Feb 08 10:17:05 we have android, and the sound not working is cos of people not maintaining the sound Feb 08 10:17:54 ok so the wifi was the only binary element in the kernel then ? Feb 08 10:18:17 correct Feb 08 10:18:31 we're even working on http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Community_firmware_image_distribution Feb 08 10:18:47 well then, i appologize for my rudeness Feb 08 10:18:50 Nokia is -really- starting to get it Feb 08 10:19:12 (i'm btw not a nokia employee, just tablet user. :P) Feb 08 10:19:14 i was under the impression nokia was back at their old tricks Feb 08 10:19:22 on the contrary Feb 08 10:19:42 http://maemo.org/news/announcements/first_maemo_5_sdk_release_targeting_platform_developers/ Feb 08 10:19:49 P13|tablet, which is why I reacted badly. :) Feb 08 10:19:56 scroll down to ' Feb 08 10:19:57 This early release comes with an invitatio' Feb 08 10:20:34 so far we've had two pre-alpha code drops which were directly usable Feb 08 10:20:46 opening of DSME, etc Feb 08 10:23:03 like i said, i never talked down your efforts Feb 08 10:23:21 hehe, good Feb 08 10:23:24 P13|tablet, but you did Nokia's Feb 08 10:23:28 nokia is being better but still not very nice imho Feb 08 10:23:33 and Nokia deserves credit where credit is due. Feb 08 10:23:36 yes and i still do Feb 08 10:24:11 1 year obsolecense (sp?) is horrible Feb 08 10:24:24 What obsolescence? Feb 08 10:24:39 People keep saying that like their tablets suddenly turn into useless bricks. Feb 08 10:24:42 no more official roadmap for it Feb 08 10:24:52 no i never said that Feb 08 10:24:55 there's plenty of people with 770s running OS2006 that are quite happy. Feb 08 10:24:55 on the other hand, community can now shape the roadmap Feb 08 10:25:03 obsolete hw still works Feb 08 10:25:34 Nokia's giving us the tools to take up our own support and run with it. Feb 08 10:25:51 i have a 2g iphone and it still runs the latest os and apps just fine Feb 08 10:26:04 P13|tablet, the iPhone's hardware hasn't changed radically. Feb 08 10:26:11 That's like saying the N800 runs what the N810 does. Feb 08 10:26:39 actually the new ipod touch is quite different Feb 08 10:26:41 Tell me when you can install the iPod Photo sotfware on your gen 2. :) Feb 08 10:26:44 new cpu etc Feb 08 10:26:47 Really, it's not. Feb 08 10:26:50 No, they're the same CPU. Feb 08 10:27:34 thd baseband is also different between 2 and 3g ... obviously Feb 08 10:27:46 It's funny that you'd bring up Apple as some kind of beacon of legacy hardware support. Feb 08 10:28:18 they could have pulled a nokia and said hey no exchange support for you or whatever Feb 08 10:28:26 Let's compare the hardware differences: iPhone 2g/3g - 3g support Feb 08 10:29:08 dude, get off your high horse, nokia is dropping support and leaving the rest up to you Feb 08 10:29:11 N810/N900 - 2-3x the processor power, accelerated 3d, 2 cameras (one of them very high quality), accelerometers, FM rx/tx, and 3g support. Feb 08 10:29:22 P13|tablet, get out of your nest of ignorance. Feb 08 10:29:37 i applaud your efforts but that doesnt make nokia look any better Feb 08 10:29:39 Looking to Apple for legacy hardware support. Feb 08 10:29:41 Insane Feb 08 10:30:16 actually i can still install leopard on a 10 year old g4 Feb 08 10:30:29 P13|tablet: I'd rather Nokia didn't cripple Maemo 5 with legacy support so that it's the best OS for the hardware it ships on. And the community have an incentive to support their existing devices, and Nokia is working to enable that. Feb 08 10:30:33 only now is it starting to change Feb 08 10:30:42 i wonder if thats a bonus from the bsd legacy more then anything else... Feb 08 10:31:02 not really Feb 08 10:31:05 Nokia have no incentive to support the previous hardware as well as possible (see the earlier Hacker Editions) Feb 08 10:31:13 P13|tablet, G4s didn't ship in 1999. :) Feb 08 10:31:42 general, a g3 will also "run" it Feb 08 10:31:44 Comparing the desktop market and the mobile market is silly. Feb 08 10:31:45 fwiw, my g4 from 04 might not run 10.6.. Feb 08 10:31:51 if you deck it out Feb 08 10:32:05 time, true and i did say that Feb 08 10:32:08 or was it 05 Feb 08 10:32:10 Mobile hardware runs on much slimmer hardware margins than desktop hardware. Feb 08 10:32:22 timelE61i, G4 or G5? Feb 08 10:32:30 Oh, err Feb 08 10:32:41 G5, my sister has a g4 Feb 08 10:32:43 Oops Feb 08 10:32:48 And 05 iirc Feb 08 10:33:02 * GeneralAntilles used a 1.6GHz G5 for 2 months. Feb 08 10:33:03 * timelE61i is getting senile Feb 08 10:33:05 Slow machine. Feb 08 10:33:18 i would make the claim that lately, apple have been the master of selling small changes as major milestones... Feb 08 10:33:19 that's what i have Feb 08 10:33:29 It's better than p2/450.. Feb 08 10:33:32 t_s_o, RDF Feb 08 10:33:38 GeneralAntilles: indeed Feb 08 10:34:10 I wonder if they'll have to turn it off when Steve retires. ;) Feb 08 10:34:29 i never intended to start a flame war but i cant help the fact that the surroundings are so highly flammable Feb 08 10:34:56 Don't smoke Feb 08 10:34:58 Contribute. Feb 08 10:35:14 GeneralAntilles: i guess one can only look to the "next" years for a hint about that... Feb 08 10:35:21 I need a Mac Pro before Apple drops my ass with 10.6 Feb 08 10:36:08 Gan: any feedback? Feb 08 10:36:21 timelE61i, I can't file bugs on Diablo anymore. :( Feb 08 10:36:34 Aww, why? Feb 08 10:36:44 timelE61i, my strings are all messed up now. :P Feb 08 10:36:45 They've all been filed. Feb 08 10:36:53 Heh Feb 08 10:37:05 Us engb :) Feb 08 10:37:08 Jaffa, if only. ;) Feb 08 10:37:44 timelE61i, one, I don't love the new LED strings Feb 08 10:38:31 ok so i'm on my laptop atm so i can talk a little more freely Feb 08 10:39:02 my intention is not to talk down your efforts nor to offend anyone Feb 08 10:39:08 timelE61i, can you fix https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3163 in the next release? Feb 08 10:39:20 s/Display/Display and LEDs/ for the Display control panel. Feb 08 10:40:01 i can only look around and see what's happening ... the fact that you now have ways to fully build your own kernel and go your own way is very cool and that means this platform has a future Feb 08 10:40:11 however, i'd say nokia has very little to do with that Feb 08 10:40:22 Er, howso? Feb 08 10:40:35 They built the damn platform. Feb 08 10:40:43 p13|2nd, Nokia have contributed quite a bit of code to linux-omap Feb 08 10:40:49 None of us would be here if it weren't for Nokia. Feb 08 10:40:55 qwerty12, to get their own stuff to run Feb 08 10:40:58 ok. It'll be done(d and leds) Feb 08 10:41:15 p13|2nd, whatever the intention, it was still done for everyone else to use Feb 08 10:41:17 GeneralAntilles, that's just stupid Feb 08 10:41:29 timelE61i, why are Tablet, Mail and Chat capitalized in the LEDs tab of that control panel? Feb 08 10:41:30 qwerty12, as a result, yes, and that's very good Feb 08 10:42:01 Hold on Feb 08 10:42:04 don't get me wrong, again, i think this community and what it's doing is absolutely great Feb 08 10:42:12 but i don't get the whole "hail nokia" thing Feb 08 10:42:15 * timelE61i missed tram stop Feb 08 10:42:22 Haha Feb 08 10:42:25 i need new strings there Feb 08 10:42:30 * RST38h does not see anyone hailing nokia Feb 08 10:42:32 timelE61i, put down the IRC and pay attention to the real world. :P Feb 08 10:42:37 I had a better title text for it Feb 08 10:42:38 So, what is the problem, anyway? Feb 08 10:42:45 But didn't record it Feb 08 10:42:48 Brb Feb 08 10:42:57 RST38h, i never made a problem out of anything Feb 08 10:43:07 some people made a problem out of me Feb 08 10:43:23 p13|2nd, why do you attribute giving appropriate credit where it's do to fanboism? Feb 08 10:43:37 p13|2nd, the problem you made was spreading FUD. Feb 08 10:43:44 i wasn't spreading fud Feb 08 10:43:48 facts man, look around Feb 08 10:43:56 nokia said that they wouldn't support your hw Feb 08 10:43:57 again Feb 08 10:44:01 like they did before Feb 08 10:44:08 they were nicer about it sure Feb 08 10:44:17 Facts seem to have mostly eluded you. Feb 08 10:44:32 GeneralAntilles, you have what they call here ... long toes Feb 08 10:44:35 very easy to step on Feb 08 10:44:55 * GeneralAntilles gives up the troll feeding. Feb 08 10:45:18 Gan: feed the devs instead :) Feb 08 10:45:24 p13|2nd: Nokia didn't say they wouldn't "support" older hardware. It's just the nature of that support is not what they'll be giving the new OSes (i.e. shipping flashable images) Feb 08 10:45:30 Someone has long toes, that's for sure. Feb 08 10:45:32 * timelE61i returns to walking on autopilot Feb 08 10:45:40 the very fact that i come in here and ask for a roadmap, i get told that there is none, i then tell you "not again" and KABOOM, THAT tells me you all feel the same Feb 08 10:45:49 They're supporting the older hardware by allowing the community to ship discrete binary blobs, and opening up anything they can Feb 08 10:45:53 timelE61i, also: Panels. Feb 08 10:46:06 task navigattor? Feb 08 10:46:49 p13|2nd, that's not what happened, though. Feb 08 10:46:50 timelE61i, hrm, maybe not. I was confusing "Status area" and "Notification area" Feb 08 10:46:59 benson, yes actually it was Feb 08 10:47:20 I'd just as soon call the taskbar "Taskbar" and the statusbar "Statusbar" Feb 08 10:47:22 I mean ther cpl item name Feb 08 10:47:49 You actually started asking about Ubuntu Feb 08 10:47:55 yes, and ? Feb 08 10:48:33 that exploded, then i stfu about that, next up i asked if there would be a new os release, got told nope ... then i expressed my dismay at nokia Feb 08 10:48:37 and pow Feb 08 10:48:38 general on fire Feb 08 10:49:00 were told of Mer, and then launchhed into antiNokia rant. Feb 08 10:49:27 i never ranted but you guys seem quite touchy so even a simple "boo nokia" would be considered a rant Feb 08 10:49:48 you say it's very nice hardware and i agree Feb 08 10:50:07 I didn't see you 'ask for a roadmap' at all. Feb 08 10:50:09 let me tell you something Feb 08 10:50:10 * timelE61i isnt really sure how ubuntu relates to maemo Feb 08 10:50:23 i work for a big manufacturer Feb 08 10:50:29 heh, the latest release of feedcircuit have turned it into a very capable replacement for the built in rss reader. with that and tear, it seems most parts of maemo can be replaced... Feb 08 10:50:38 the people that make H/W do not agree with the people that build the platform Feb 08 10:50:48 i'm guessing it's no different for nokia Feb 08 10:51:03 * GeneralAntilles chuckles at Quiet/Loud for sound levels. Feb 08 10:51:57 :) Feb 08 10:52:09 Obviously there are some... differences... between hw and sw guys. Feb 08 10:52:11 Not certain how accurate that i Feb 08 10:52:22 If you have better ... Feb 08 10:52:30 benson, i work for HP, let me tell you, there is more than some difference Feb 08 10:52:43 timelE61i, there's some inconsistency in the capitalization in the "sentence" settings. Feb 08 10:52:51 "Open finger keyboard: With finger" Feb 08 10:53:00 eww Feb 08 10:53:12 like building kickass hardware, only to have some guy india or malaysia or whatever put some kind of crap java laden web interface on it Feb 08 10:53:15 (ironic understatement...) Feb 08 10:53:18 Yeah, maybe you could take notes and email me? Feb 08 10:53:27 * timelE61i has to retype here Feb 08 10:53:29 timelE61i, yeah, I was going to say. Feb 08 10:53:49 and what nokia did translates to one thing only .... cash Feb 08 10:53:51 timelE61i, I was expecting that you'd just jot these down on your forearm with a Sharpie while you walked. ;) Feb 08 10:54:02 the only reason the wifi driver got opened up was cash Feb 08 10:54:10 or some other arrangement that benefits both Feb 08 10:54:31 It's business, the world doesn't run on altruism. Feb 08 10:54:35 p13|2nd: So everything HP or Apple do *isn't* motivated by cash Feb 08 10:54:36 ? Feb 08 10:54:42 Yes, that doesn't make it bad, does it? Feb 08 10:54:44 GeneralAntilles, but you guys do Feb 08 10:54:56 Jaffa, lol, of course Feb 08 10:55:13 but all i am saying is don't falsely praise nokia Feb 08 10:55:16 as i said, they are being nicer Feb 08 10:55:21 but still not very nice Feb 08 10:55:32 timelE61i, do we want to stick close to the manual at all for string usage? Feb 08 10:55:40 if they decided to drop this thing again fully, it would be a violation of warranty law in europe Feb 08 10:55:55 no Feb 08 10:55:58 which i am guessing has more to do with their decision to help than anything else Feb 08 10:56:06 We can s/r the docs later Feb 08 10:56:11 timelE61i, what I figured, good. Feb 08 10:56:31 or fear of lawsuits perhaps Feb 08 10:56:34 I don't know European law, but I doubt it. Feb 08 10:56:48 p13|2nd: We don't say they're being nice. They're doing things motivated by cash, but those motivations are now closer aligned to the community's Feb 08 10:57:04 benson, if you sell something here, you have to be able to support it throughout the warrant period (2 yrs) Feb 08 10:57:06 * Jaffa does know European Law and that's complete bollocks. Feb 08 10:57:17 Not backporting new stuff != no support. Feb 08 10:57:20 Jaffa, i said they're being nicer Feb 08 10:57:20 Warranty isn't affected, proper legal "Support" isn't affected. Feb 08 10:57:46 What's affected is whether Nokia, or the community, will be the ones providing you a new OS. If you get the WSOD, you still call Nokia Care and get it fixed. Feb 08 10:57:56 Jaffa, you could discuss that very lengthily, dell got sued too with the while vista debacle Feb 08 10:58:03 Pushing updates to OS2008 as needed would satisfy amy sane laws. Feb 08 10:58:33 could you guys keep legal out of the channel? Feb 08 10:58:34 p13|2nd: And I was pointing out it isn't about "niceness". We're not being blinded by how sweet and nice they're being, they've made a commercial decision that assisting the community in supporting the old hardware is in their strategic interest Feb 08 10:58:35 benson, are they going to do that though ? Feb 08 10:58:39 No lawyers allowed! Feb 08 10:58:51 p13|2nd: That's because they claimed Vista would run on it. No such advertising claims have been made for the N8x0s Feb 08 10:59:12 Jaffa, yes, exactly but again, like i said, they're not being nice, you are basicly agreeing with me Feb 08 10:59:39 Jaffa, some models were sold with those claims while others weren't, more than one model line was quoted in the lawsuit Feb 08 10:59:43 ie. vostro and such Feb 08 11:00:01 benson: It's consumer electronics, there aren't any laws covering stuff like that. You could, probably, make a case if there was an enormous and widespread security flaw which was actively being exploited that Nokia would have to resolve it, but beyond that... not so much. Feb 08 11:00:03 this couldn't be done to/with nokia however, i agree Feb 08 11:00:16 p13|2nd: You're the only one talking about "niceness" Feb 08 11:00:56 Jaffa, the general was claming they were being good about it and all that, i countered that and was being ignored basicly, calling it FUD Feb 08 11:01:14 p13|2nd, how should I know? I don't say there's no way they could break those lawss, just that not providing Fremantle is not per se breaking them. Feb 08 11:01:37 benson, no, i agree Feb 08 11:02:12 the fact of the matter is Feb 08 11:02:31 they handed you what you needed but it was never intended to be nice or anything like that Feb 08 11:02:48 i'm confident this platform will evolve Feb 08 11:02:54 okl Feb 08 11:02:56 and you will make something great out of it Feb 08 11:03:25 however, i do not change my thoughts on the matter of nokia "doing it again" Feb 08 11:03:44 my original and only point was that i would never pay full price again (ie. buy it new) for this Feb 08 11:04:09 you are doing this out of ideology and that is very commendable and noble Feb 08 11:04:15 * benson shrugs Feb 08 11:04:15 but nokia is reaping the benefits Feb 08 11:04:39 p13|2nd: The fundamental point that's being stressed to you are that the circumstances are very different. They're not being nice; but they don't want to cripple new OS development by supporting the old OS. It's a mutual interest thing to therefore assist the community by making it possible for things like Mer to exist and fully support N8x0 and 770 hardware. Feb 08 11:04:58 p13|2nd: It's not just Nokia reaping the benefits. It's the uers too Feb 08 11:05:54 So Nokia opens stuff, makes our life easier, so we stick around and hack cool programs so that they can sell more tablets and make more money. Feb 08 11:05:56 all i"m saying is it's very easy for them as a company to open up these things, no matter how many people are telling you it's not. It all comes down to cash, they've weighed the pros and cons and saw a net profit, that's why you got what you got Feb 08 11:06:11 Ye-eeeeees. Feb 08 11:06:36 But why is that a bad thing? It's also not what happened before, so your assertion that Nokia are doing "the same thing again" is demonstrably false. Feb 08 11:06:43 nokia isn't actually benefiting, it isn't getting more sales Feb 08 11:06:46 i'm not an unreasonable person, i just don't like to be called a troll, when in fact all i'm doing is dropping my two cents Feb 08 11:06:54 timelE61i, userbase Feb 08 11:07:02 Nokia benefits financially, I benefit from nicer software, I don't see why I should hate them... Feb 08 11:07:20 false Feb 08 11:07:35 Jaffa, the only difference here is they actually see a large userbase and they want to keep them now, with the 770 that wasn't so Feb 08 11:07:51 p13|2nd: so, it's not the same. Feb 08 11:07:54 i also went through 3 770s and nokia wasn't very nice about that either but that's a different story Feb 08 11:07:58 Is nokia still selling 770's? Feb 08 11:07:59 This is why you're called a troll, BTW Feb 08 11:08:10 Jaffa, i agree but that doesn't make them look any better Feb 08 11:08:33 timelE61i, not anymore i think but they did continue selling them along N800s Feb 08 11:08:40 with a navigation pack iirc Feb 08 11:08:40 iF nokia still sold them and the only reason people bought them was a new os, maybe Feb 08 11:08:47 bUt nokia doesn't Feb 08 11:09:00 so they're doing different things, but they have a good reason, so it's not different? Feb 08 11:09:09 And after prices reach a certain level, nokia has already accepted a loss Feb 08 11:09:17 And someone else is profiting Feb 08 11:09:43 yOu don't see people complaining when tigerdirect or an equiv sells stuff Feb 08 11:09:49 timelE61i, for the 770 navi package they weren't losing out since they had a deal with the people providing the GPS receiver Feb 08 11:09:52 They do benefit from this extra os Feb 08 11:10:17 but the 770 navi package was pretty dirt chea Feb 08 11:10:25 i bought the 770 when it first came out Feb 08 11:10:47 the package was actually iirc cheaper than the parts w/o sw Feb 08 11:10:57 first one WSOD, second one, wouldn't charge, theird one case cracked at the bottom after three monts use (known issue) Feb 08 11:10:58 timelE61i, fired off my Control Panel observations. Feb 08 11:11:05 timelE61i, yes Feb 08 11:11:07 If i had a use and money, i'd have bought it Feb 08 11:11:36 anyway Feb 08 11:11:40 This is #maemo Feb 08 11:11:51 well it's a bit like the psp navi package that way i guess Feb 08 11:11:54 Software comments relating to maemo should be ontopic Feb 08 11:11:57 can someone give me a executive summary on what this ranting is about? Feb 08 11:12:12 Hardware complaints, legalisms, and pricing should not be Feb 08 11:12:14 anything new that hasn't been ranted before? Feb 08 11:12:20 nO Feb 08 11:12:39 thanks. continue as you are. Feb 08 11:12:50 ah now i see why i got acid thrown over my face pretty much immediately Feb 08 11:12:51 Feeding trolls is good exercise while descending stairs in .be Feb 08 11:13:01 suihkulokki: No; "are Nokia doing anything different with previous tablet support for the OMAP2->3 jump than they did in 770->N800?" Feb 08 11:13:02 i guess i'm not the first Feb 08 11:13:05 nor the last Feb 08 11:14:13 suihkulokki, p13 says 'Nokia's not being nice', we say 'Shiny, new OSS stuff to play with' Feb 08 11:14:43 And then we argue; it's fun Feb 08 11:15:59 yeas, and some people consider it fun being whipped by a old lady wearing leather Feb 08 11:16:18 So, who wants to see if we can have cool Downloads integration stuff going for h-a-m before Fremantle's out the door? :P Feb 08 11:16:25 suih: but here we're allowed to whip back Feb 08 11:16:39 I'd get arrested for general old lady whipping Feb 08 11:17:03 Downloads? I.e. Stars? Feb 08 11:17:03 GeneralAntilles: suggested approach from me would be to have an arbitrary RSS app feed support in HAM. That can then be used for cool, hot, fresh etc. Feb 08 11:17:05 depends where you live Feb 08 11:17:29 i'd guess old lady whipping is quite legal here Feb 08 11:17:37 GeneralAntilles: but since Nokia are working heavily on h-a-m in private, would be worried about patches being appliable. Feb 08 11:17:41 timelE61i, App Store-like stuff between downloads.maemo.org and h-a-m. Feb 08 11:17:46 Ratings, comments, stats, etc. Feb 08 11:18:09 Jaffa, figure out the infrastructure side, then? Feb 08 11:19:10 GeneralAntilles: Certainly sorting out a design would be sensible. Feb 08 11:19:35 * timelE61i gets lost in a house Feb 08 11:20:27 timelE61i auto-piloted himself into somebody's unlocked front-door? :P Feb 08 11:20:30 GeneralAntilles: if you want to sketch out some requirements on maemo-dev, I'll reply with a suggested design. Feb 08 11:20:38 Put my day job to good use :) Feb 08 11:21:02 * Jaffa kicks work stuff out of his background system design thread and replaces it with h-a-m/downloads integration :) Feb 08 11:24:25 actually, it was a garage door :) Feb 08 11:24:54 Jaffa, hehe. Feb 08 11:25:36 Mobile internet and personal locomotion go together... interestingly. Feb 08 11:26:31 * benson once knocked himself off his bike with a telephone pole, courtesy of N800. Feb 08 11:27:43 <- one leg into a drain hole Feb 08 11:27:46 iphone Feb 08 11:27:59 on foot though Feb 08 11:29:56 * Jaffa nearly broke his ankle running down the stairs at work when my 770 first arrived by courier in Nov 2005 Feb 08 11:30:17 wow Feb 08 11:30:56 Badly sprained it so sat on the sofa in the company flat using it with frozen peas on my ankle Feb 08 11:32:07 is anybody using maemo bulit-in SIP client? Feb 08 11:32:26 Speaking of requirements for ham Feb 08 11:32:43 Being able to search by package name when there's a pretty name set Feb 08 11:32:43 Nokia Internet Tablets Considered Harmful Feb 08 11:33:20 i can't even find my own package because the pretty name is so different and i searched by the deb name Feb 08 11:34:52 * Jaffa has never usedh-a-m's search. Feb 08 11:35:19 really? Feb 08 11:35:24 Nope Feb 08 11:35:37 The biggest complaint i have is that installing forgets the active search Feb 08 11:37:48 installing mer on my n810 now Feb 08 11:39:53 Not ready for end-users yet :) Feb 08 11:39:58 anybody else has trouble with maemo-mapper and google-sattelite maps ? it always says xxx maps failed to download... Feb 08 11:40:13 But you can play with the fremantle widgets Feb 08 11:40:16 I've used the search for the purposes of bug hunting and morbid interest. Feb 08 11:40:25 It doesn't give you any indication that it's actually searching. Feb 08 11:40:46 p13|2nd: They're on a weekly release cycle, with new releases Sunday nights ( ? not certain), so you might be reinstalling tomorrow... Feb 08 11:41:01 Once the new categories are in place navigation will be better. . . . Feb 08 11:41:05 benson, that's ok Feb 08 11:41:24 next one on 15th Feb 08 11:41:37 16th, sorry Feb 08 11:41:56 StsN800: is it biweekly then, or just skipping this one? Feb 08 11:42:16 biweekly Feb 08 11:42:17 * benson could have this whole thing confused... Feb 08 11:42:30 on sundays Feb 08 11:42:49 thx Feb 08 11:44:33 bootmnenu installed Feb 08 11:45:02 has anyone tried to run something like hdparm -t on the memory card ? Feb 08 11:45:11 doesn't seem very high performance to me Feb 08 11:48:04 so is the plan to stick with the hildon way of doing things with mer ? Feb 08 11:48:11 ie. every app fullscreen Feb 08 11:49:00 compat w/ sibling platforms makes layouts stable and safe Feb 08 11:49:09 so, yes Feb 08 11:49:12 ok Feb 08 11:49:15 When layout assumptions break, apps look bad Feb 08 11:49:18 Not my call Feb 08 11:49:43 well from the way it looks now, i'd assume so Feb 08 11:50:12 is noon too early for pizza ? Feb 08 11:50:19 no Feb 08 11:50:26 awesome Feb 08 11:50:34 p13|2nd: it's _never_ too early for pizza! Feb 08 11:50:52 i'd argue that 4 am could eitherway be WAAY too early or WAAY too late Feb 08 11:50:57 depends on your state Feb 08 11:51:41 installer seems to be unpacking the tarball Feb 08 11:52:04 who did the installer ? Feb 08 11:52:12 it's dead-easy, pretty good Feb 08 11:53:00 b-man, I think. Feb 08 11:53:55 i looked at the people section of the project page a minute or two ago but i have the memory of an amnesiac goldfish Feb 08 11:54:14 WOO snow ! Feb 08 11:54:25 on snowy days i thank god my car is RWD Feb 08 12:03:12 moo wazd Feb 08 12:05:13 RST38h: hola) Feb 08 12:10:11 RST38h/wazd, jaem was asking about the TI emulator last night. Feb 08 12:10:15 I pointed him your direction. Feb 08 12:10:30 General: A couple more days, most likely. Feb 08 12:11:48 booting mer Feb 08 12:14:16 RST38h: cool :) Feb 08 12:15:30 done the initial setup, numbers (fn key) don't seem to work Feb 08 12:17:43 wazd: Want to do an icon for it or should I just use a default one from Gnome? =) Feb 08 12:17:57 p13|2nd: That may be a known issue, or may be "fixed", but in either case, you need to hold Fn and press key, not press Fn, press key. Feb 08 12:18:31 If the fix hasn't made it into this release, I saw it on itT, so it's known. Feb 08 12:18:44 (I only have N800s right now.) Feb 08 12:19:06 RST38h: well, I haven't seen yhe default one :) Feb 08 12:19:51 wazd: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Accessories-calculator.svg minus the shadow Feb 08 12:20:08 benson, got it Feb 08 12:21:27 RST38h: well, I can make a new one :) Feb 08 12:26:02 so i did the initial setup and now mer is stuck on a loading screen Feb 08 12:26:10 for at least 5 min now Feb 08 12:31:44 still stuck Feb 08 12:31:48 should i try rebooting ? Feb 08 12:32:18 not sure; what's it look like? Feb 08 12:32:29 loadbar Feb 08 12:32:37 stuck at the end Feb 08 12:32:59 Hmmm... IDK, didn't hang there for me. Try hitting escape and such? Feb 08 12:33:43 no response to anything Feb 08 12:34:07 Then probably have to pull the battery and reboot. :( Feb 08 12:34:17 ok i'll try that Feb 08 12:36:40 ok it booted Feb 08 12:39:28 it's working Feb 08 12:43:20 you have written this from scratch ? Feb 08 12:44:58 p13|2nd: The wiki page explains it, but basically it's a minimal ubuntu bootstrap populated from the alpha SDK. Feb 08 12:45:20 benson, it's quite impressibe Feb 08 12:45:23 impressive* Feb 08 12:45:28 The wiki also lists who did the work, and it wasn't me. ;) Feb 08 12:45:43 it's a bit slow but that's undoutably the card Feb 08 12:47:17 or the x server driver Feb 08 12:47:27 i saw some tearing yes Feb 08 12:47:34 It has been written on the stone plates :) Feb 08 12:49:50 http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/07/nokia-launching-a-symbian-app-store-at-mwc/ Feb 08 12:50:43 from within mer ... it works Feb 08 12:50:47 yup Feb 08 12:51:18 typing is awkward-ish though, i can confirm symbols don't work Feb 08 12:51:32 and xchat won't take the CR for some reason Feb 08 12:52:00 rotation makes it crash :p Feb 08 12:52:03 now the shocker, apt-cache search someapp Feb 08 12:52:14 and yes, its in known issues Feb 08 12:53:42 but yeah it works Feb 08 12:54:05 it's quite minimal and has some niggles but i'm surprised at how functional it actually is Feb 08 12:54:56 2-3 months of work, 100% oss, most ubuntu and nokia sw Feb 08 12:55:14 i didn't expect it to do anything besides boot Feb 08 12:55:22 but i installed xchat and stuff Feb 08 12:55:25 and that works Feb 08 12:56:29 check the 0.6 and 0.7 threads on iTT too for screenshots Feb 08 12:56:54 a lot is possible so Feb 08 12:57:55 i think free window management would be good, ie. in the traditional sense Feb 08 12:58:00 let me place windows and resize them Feb 08 12:58:09 but it would be hard to make that work on such a small screen i guess Feb 08 12:58:29 apt-get install lxde matchbox-keyboard, reboot;) Feb 08 12:58:31 i ran linux on my psion series 5 mx back in the day and aside from it being horribly slow, it worked qite well Feb 08 12:59:06 in mer or in maemo ? Feb 08 12:59:12 mer Feb 08 12:59:27 replaces DE with lxde Feb 08 12:59:39 okqy let's try that Feb 08 12:59:48 p13|2nd: I use FVWM2 under Diablo from time to time. Only difference in Mer is you can grab it from the Ubuntu repositories instead of building it yourself. Feb 08 13:00:10 fvwm ? Feb 08 13:00:18 boy, that's a bit retro isn't it ? :) Feb 08 13:00:29 Although I'm thinking a tiling window manager would be nice on an N810... Feb 08 13:00:39 yeah i like tiling wms Feb 08 13:00:42 but not all people do Feb 08 13:00:48 however, it would work well on the form factor Feb 08 13:00:58 Maybe, but it was my favorite wm until I started messing with wmii ~3 weeks ago. Feb 08 13:01:59 The great thing about f is configuration and actions being the same language. Feb 08 13:02:27 Also, it has the ability to slap scrollbars on any window, which is handy for small displays. Feb 08 13:02:53 Hello ! Feb 08 13:03:07 Hi Feb 08 13:04:12 Is there a prob with the machine hosting auto builder ? i can t scp each time i get an permission denied : lost connection Feb 08 13:04:43 you guys need build boxes ? Feb 08 13:05:52 Word has reached us that Nvidia is definitely working on an x86 chip and the firm is heavily recruiting x86 engineers all over Silicon Valley. Feb 08 13:06:38 The curse of Microsoft Office in action. Feb 08 13:07:57 RST38h ? Feb 08 13:08:09 Khertan: Just what I quoted Feb 08 13:08:58 Khertan: NVidia planned on an ARM-based chip before. By now, they seem to have figured out that Microsoft Office does matter and are trying to make their own Atom Feb 08 13:09:28 hum ... Feb 08 13:10:03 what a bad idea Feb 08 13:11:57 will probably kill NVidia, unless quickly terminated Feb 08 13:15:33 Stskeeps, lol now i can't log on anymore since it's asking me for credentials and i have symbols in my pw ... and symbols aren't working on the keyboard Feb 08 13:16:26 yeah, we are working on gdm-autologin Feb 08 13:18:10 anyone here happen to have Skype installed? Feb 08 13:18:15 * timeless has a bunch of questions Feb 08 13:21:59 installed? yes. Feb 08 13:22:14 can you open it? Feb 08 13:22:24 * timeless needs to know what the welcome wizard looks like Feb 08 13:22:40 * timeless suspects it has 3 steps and needs to know the order Feb 08 13:24:19 welcome to skype 1/3: full name, choose skype name -- 2/3: password, verify password, e-mail Feb 08 13:25:00 3/3: licence agreement Feb 08 13:25:07 thanks Feb 08 13:25:23 can i get back to you in 5mins to ask about better titles? Feb 08 13:25:26 * timeless needs to find those strings Feb 08 13:26:07 timeless, ah, poking through your translations today: you might want to mention 'Nokia' somewhere in your version of the 'we can't guarantee this app' click-through Feb 08 13:26:12 first two steps are just like that, minus capitalisation Feb 08 13:26:19 johnx: i intentionally didn't Feb 08 13:26:33 did you notice the difference between is nokia and is not nokia/might not be nokia? Feb 08 13:26:53 well, then who is 'we' ? Feb 08 13:27:04 oh, ouch! Feb 08 13:27:14 ok, adding to a totod list Feb 08 13:27:18 i knew it! the little tablet gnomes! Feb 08 13:27:26 can you easily read / test the strings? Feb 08 13:27:39 yeah, just need something to install :) Feb 08 13:27:39 there are distinc tstrings for the nokia/non nokia types, and they were intentionally cute Feb 08 13:28:03 note: my wifi is kicking me off every couple of second Feb 08 13:28:03 this was for canola beta11 Feb 08 13:28:04 s Feb 08 13:30:56 i'm tryíng to repack mesa but I get always this output... http://pastebin.com/d5a1efa20 Feb 08 13:32:21 in your debian/rules, what's on line 214? Feb 08 13:32:48 wnd? Feb 08 13:32:53 timeless Feb 08 13:32:54 if the titles were: Feb 08 13:32:59 Skype - Name Feb 08 13:33:14 Skype - Account Feb 08 13:33:18 Skype - License Feb 08 13:33:45 would that be ok?/better than what you had in the title today Feb 08 13:34:03 or "Identity" if that doesn't sound too technical Feb 08 13:35:03 in any case, yes, that would be better. now all the title really says is i/3. Feb 08 13:35:08 * thopiekar has the source from apt-get source of ubuntu... Feb 08 13:35:11 i'm going to try Nameuntil someone complains Feb 08 13:35:18 johnx: http://pastebin.com/d79b1146 Feb 08 13:35:43 ok, one last thing, if you have a real skype account Feb 08 13:35:48 oh,no Feb 08 13:35:53 no real account required Feb 08 13:36:07 can you try to guess an |"invalid" character for a skype name? Feb 08 13:36:26 thopiekar, huh. then I don't quite know Feb 08 13:36:56 hmm Feb 08 13:37:16 * slonopotamus wants some kind of exposé-like window switch on tablet Feb 08 13:37:36 whitespace maybe? all non-printable characters? Feb 08 13:37:38 I just want to repack mixxx from ubuntu... would be very nice to have a dj-program on the nit Feb 08 13:37:46 slonopotamus, maybe if lcuk makes his own xserver or at least a composition manager :) Feb 08 13:37:50 can you try to find something? Feb 08 13:38:07 there's some sort of information complaining: Feb 08 13:38:08 are there available packages for mesa? Feb 08 13:38:13 Skype Name cannot contain Feb 08 13:38:16 invalid characters Feb 08 13:38:53 * timeless is trying to figure out how to improve it Feb 08 13:40:06 johnx, uh? there are tons of wms, why one more? Feb 08 13:40:19 RST38h: why not just work with MS and port Office to arms>) Feb 08 13:40:40 slonopotamus, composition manager = that thing that lest you do neat tricks like expose Feb 08 13:40:43 err, office works on arm Feb 08 13:40:55 how do you think pocket word works on a cell phone? Feb 08 13:41:35 xcompmgr is available but it runs shit slow on a tablet Feb 08 13:41:36 johnx, i know that Feb 08 13:41:47 btw. how you distinguish 'why', meaning 'with what purpose' and 'why' meaning 'for what reason'? Feb 08 13:41:51 RST38h: It's like to build another road for a car that can't run on the existing one, instead of making better car :) Feb 08 13:42:09 afternoon Feb 08 13:42:17 at least the following chars are invalid, didn't try others: Â¥ /()*'"?+%# Feb 08 13:42:23 Stskeeps: evening) Feb 08 13:42:23 fiancée left for berlin again so back at the desk again :P Feb 08 13:42:28 slonopotamus: 'why one more' isn't a great sentence Feb 08 13:42:30 hey Stskeeps Feb 08 13:42:36 'why one more?' Feb 08 13:43:04 timeless, what is better in this case? Feb 08 13:43:23 slonopotamus, you need to drop your reader some other clue :) but I'm not suggesting another WM necessarily. I'm suggesting a non-GL composition manager Feb 08 13:43:48 johnx, what's bad with gl? Feb 08 13:44:05 we don't have accelerated GL on the tablet Feb 08 13:44:12 johnx: did you see lcuk's latest video? Feb 08 13:44:17 not yet Feb 08 13:44:20 you should. Feb 08 13:44:23 johnx: I removed the empty line of debain/rules and it says the same line.. could it be another file? Feb 08 13:44:23 johnx, and so what? use software rendering Feb 08 13:44:27 * johnx searches Feb 08 13:44:46 slonopotamus, it's pretty slow Feb 08 13:45:02 quake 1 was ok with software opengl Feb 08 13:45:02 thopiekar, yeah, might want to look at line 214 of dh_clean script Feb 08 13:45:26 slonopotamus, quake 1 doesn't throw around a whole bunch of 800x480 textures Feb 08 13:45:27 sentences are supposed to have verbs, even questions Feb 08 13:45:35 johnx: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMXp0Dg_UaY Feb 08 13:45:37 'why create one more?' Feb 08 13:45:39 thanks :) Feb 08 13:45:41 'why ask for one more?' Feb 08 13:45:46 'why do you want one more?' Feb 08 13:45:56 thopiekar, run dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot, let it clean & fail and then run dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -nc Feb 08 13:46:24 ok Feb 08 13:47:29 johnx, save you a search :) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMXp0Dg_UaY Feb 08 13:47:34 balls Feb 08 13:47:41 * lcuk goes back to sleep ;) Feb 08 13:47:59 lcuk, looks great. :) Feb 08 13:47:59 johnx: and then when done watching it .. repeat to yourself "who the fuck needs clutter" :P Feb 08 13:48:36 Stskeeps: well, we don't know borders of clutter :) Feb 08 13:48:47 rate it if you like it :P Feb 08 13:48:59 wazd: i know liq only needs xv.. Feb 08 13:49:01 hot sauce :) Feb 08 13:49:14 * thopiekar_N800 gets a coffee break Feb 08 13:49:49 there is nothing at all which suggests we cannot use a gl backend on devices which support it natively Feb 08 13:50:11 I wonder if liqbase can handle alpha-masks for layers and so on Feb 08 13:50:25 wazd, the images are alpha blended Feb 08 13:50:44 lcuk: text? windows? Feb 08 13:51:31 the text is blended but doesnt yet support faded itself, but thats down to the library - i have only 1 pair of hands Feb 08 13:52:00 if its required im sure people could expand what ive started :) Feb 08 13:52:16 i just want this device to not be obscoleted so quickly Feb 08 13:52:32 The problem of clutter is that it has shitty dems on youtube Feb 08 13:52:47 it has shitty performance on my tablet too Feb 08 13:52:47 demos* Feb 08 13:52:52 i was playing over xmas Feb 08 13:53:02 *x41 tablet Feb 08 13:53:10 well, it requires GL, what do you want :) Feb 08 13:53:20 ^ my x41 has hardware gl Feb 08 13:53:34 it still felt more of a compromise than liqbase Feb 08 13:55:23 i would rather use my library which can be expanded upon and which works on all devices than use clutter directly and not be able to use my current hardware :) Feb 08 13:56:01 johnx: woo, libhildon on debian-armel Feb 08 13:56:10 ah, nice Feb 08 13:56:30 I'm just glad to have survived the day. I'll return to hacking tomorrow Feb 08 13:56:38 yep Feb 08 13:56:52 i'm having apple juice and vodka to settle down a bit after a long weekend Feb 08 13:57:07 no more alcohol for me O_o; Feb 08 13:57:14 not for a while at least Feb 08 13:57:52 hehe Feb 08 13:58:47 I couldn't very well cancel on a friend's birthday but I don't think I'll be doing that too often Feb 08 14:06:07 so, someone complained about the display blink stuff Feb 08 14:06:11 i've fixed blink :) Feb 08 14:06:25 blink stuff ? Feb 08 14:06:29 on what ? Feb 08 14:06:38 in the control panel, display, there's some text about blinking Feb 08 14:06:43 and it's bad and had random caps Feb 08 14:06:47 i've fixed that locally Feb 08 14:06:55 qwerty12_N800: when i try to build the packages with dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -nc I get this output... Feb 08 14:06:56 http://pastebin.com/d45df87f5 Feb 08 14:07:12 Khertan_n810, have you seen my calendar idea? Feb 08 14:07:35 hello lcuk Feb 08 14:07:47 and are you feeling better now Feb 08 14:07:51 i see the overview 4 on utube Feb 08 14:08:06 yep a bit better Feb 08 14:08:19 yeah just a tiny bit :P :D Feb 08 14:09:00 why's ext3 better than ext2 for a flash card? Feb 08 14:09:04 timelE61i, how did the beerfest go last night Feb 08 14:09:05 i mean is it? Feb 08 14:09:10 thopiekar, welcome to scratchbox, where most of the tools suck & are heavily outdated. Feb 08 14:09:24 -.-" Feb 08 14:09:25 Meizirkki, with ext2, I'd lose data randomly Feb 08 14:09:25 Meizirkki: if you once have experienced ext2 wrecking complete havoc.. Feb 08 14:09:35 then ext3 is a blessing Feb 08 14:09:38 ok, thanks Feb 08 14:09:41 Meizirkki ... try in google ext3 better than ext2 in google Feb 08 14:09:51 and you ll get year of explanation Feb 08 14:10:08 qwerty12_N800: is there a way to bypass it? Feb 08 14:10:32 i ended up @moz's thing Feb 08 14:10:46 thopiekar, use this cp http://qwerty12.maemobox.org/mesashit/cp Feb 08 14:11:12 (it's an armel one so only use it in diablo_armel) Feb 08 14:11:36 timelE61i, wont quim hit you on the head with a stick on monday Feb 08 14:11:56 lcuk: so where is the python binding for your calendar widget ? Feb 08 14:12:43 there isnt one yet, python isnt my bag :) Feb 08 14:13:10 and the calendar is just a collection of cells/tiles which sit together and get drawn Feb 08 14:13:16 lcuk: heh, i guess moz stuff is timeless work related :> Feb 08 14:13:36 heh i know Feb 08 14:13:39 qwerty12_N800: is it possible that my sdk is broken? I tried to install mc by apt-get install mc and i get the same output... Feb 08 14:13:39 E: Sub-process /scratchbox/devkits/debian-etch/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1) Feb 08 14:14:10 thopiekar: i think it's just scratchbox business as usual Feb 08 14:14:13 lcuk: yep i know ... :) Feb 08 14:14:24 Stskeeps: ok Feb 08 14:15:28 thopiekar, that package is device oriented. if you really wanna install it, have the sdk's desktop environment running. Feb 08 14:16:22 qwerty12_N800: mesa? Feb 08 14:16:30 mc Feb 08 14:16:30 Khertan_n810, theres 2 parts to the calendar i want to make, its *principally* a hand drawn real looking calendar - like you have on your wall. but it will make sense to also allow ical entries to be shown as well as the native drawn items. (i want to write it so me and tracy can share real calendars, and be able to use little marks we normally use on cals - red crosses, ticks and things in certain places) Feb 08 14:17:39 lcuk, out of interest, did you ever implement information sharing between two devices in liqbase? Feb 08 14:18:30 qwerty12_N800: hmm same here with your cp Feb 08 14:19:20 you haven't replaced it properly or still referencing to the old one because i've used it successfullly for the same purpose before ;) Feb 08 14:19:21 :) qwerty12_N800 no ive been a bit busy, but ive started to look at that side of things - along with the data layout and structure between apps themselves Feb 08 14:19:34 lcuk, ah, cool :) Feb 08 14:19:36 i have a simpler idea though :) Feb 08 14:19:59 something that allows me to carry on using certain other things i thought i would have to change Feb 08 14:20:27 qwerty12_N800: http://pastebin.com/d5b4ce5e1 Feb 08 14:20:29 mornin ciroip Feb 08 14:20:34 hi ciroip Feb 08 14:21:26 can someone grab x-fade and see if we can get my blog post fixed up on planet Feb 08 14:21:42 thopiekar, run 'which cp' Feb 08 14:21:51 the video link for some reason is linked to the next sentence and doesnt play Feb 08 14:22:05 thopiekar, if you replace it, make sure to back it up Feb 08 14:22:06 /scratchbox/tools/bin/cp Feb 08 14:22:14 exactly. Feb 08 14:22:14 ok Feb 08 14:22:16 lcuk, he's off skiing. Feb 08 14:22:39 someone do an airdrop with a device he can vnc from Feb 08 14:23:35 http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/02/03/phantom_russian_os/page2.html Feb 08 14:23:45 haha very funny Feb 08 14:24:07 Khertan_n810, yeah - ms access has done that sort of data saving on the fly for years, when you exit a cell its saved :P Feb 08 14:24:41 yep ... when you exit a cell an other one is corrupted Feb 08 14:25:01 lol - thats a design feature - it comes from ms afterall :D Feb 08 14:25:10 though on a local machine , access is very very stabel Feb 08 14:25:13 stable Feb 08 14:25:29 a local shutdown machine ? Feb 08 14:25:37 lol Feb 08 14:26:09 oh wow Feb 08 14:26:09 qwerty12_N800: I have replaced it.. I'm gonna try out dpkg.... again. Feb 08 14:26:12 * timeless just got: Feb 08 14:26:17 Downloading fennec failed Feb 08 14:26:19 !!Retry? Feb 08 14:26:22 [OK][Cancel] Feb 08 14:26:33 mer or diablo? Feb 08 14:27:17 diablo Feb 08 14:27:30 heh, !! in the shipped locales? Feb 08 14:27:34 dunno Feb 08 14:27:43 i'm pretty sure i'm using my localized Applicaiton Manager Feb 08 14:27:47 and i can't find it in my strings Feb 08 14:28:18 i can't vpn in atm, i don't know where my house keys are :) Feb 08 14:28:56 could someone w/ vpn access ping me? Feb 08 14:30:06 qwerty12_N800: http://pastebin.com/d7d00c1c3 ( with fresh mesa source and new cp) Feb 08 14:33:06 wait, is ham open source? Feb 08 14:33:35 how do you think mer has it otherwise? Feb 08 14:33:36 yes Feb 08 14:33:50 i'm not awake Feb 08 14:33:53 thopiekar: adapt your rules file: find $(CURDIR)/* -maxdepth 0 -not -path '$(DEB_BUILD_DIR)*' -exec cp -rlf '{}' $(DEB_BUILD_DIR)/$* Feb 08 14:33:54 give me a break :) Feb 08 14:36:19 mikkov_: from the sourcefolder? Feb 08 14:36:44 thopiekar: debian/rules Feb 08 14:36:58 ok Feb 08 14:37:16 mikkov_: at line? Feb 08 14:37:26 ok Feb 08 14:37:53 my guess is that the version of diablo i'm running isn't shipping Feb 08 14:38:00 and hence had an unlocalized identifier :) Feb 08 14:38:11 because my newer diablo ham didn't give that line Feb 08 14:38:21 * timeless failed to download fennec twice Feb 08 14:38:22 thopiekar: search Feb 08 14:38:39 beginning of the line is the same Feb 08 14:38:39 ok Feb 08 14:38:55 mikkov_: the rules file... http://pastebin.com/d8a26b84 Feb 08 14:40:19 line 175 and 176 Feb 08 14:40:32 mikkov_: thanks Feb 08 14:40:44 krutt: hallo Feb 08 14:42:33 mikkov_: so mark the two lines and replace it with yours? Feb 08 14:44:42 yes, replace the lines Feb 08 14:45:25 mikkov_: now dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot without -nc? Feb 08 14:46:50 * lcuk hopes kotczarny is ok, wherever he is :) Feb 08 14:46:52 yes Feb 08 14:48:53 jo, hallo Feb 08 14:49:15 krutt: :) Feb 08 14:49:22 mikkov_: http://pastebin.com/d56c30d9 Feb 08 14:49:38 lcuk: http://www.tampabay.com/features/events/article973624.ece Feb 08 14:50:41 fuck yeah! whats that brown stuff all over the candy though? Feb 08 14:50:53 hehe Feb 08 14:52:44 was there actually someone succeeding with video chat to PC btw? Feb 08 14:53:03 ive heard rumours Feb 08 14:53:06 with a certain client Feb 08 14:53:23 i used skype last night for the first time ever Feb 08 14:53:40 lcuk: OS? Feb 08 14:54:00 umm the skype was maemo - maemo audio only Feb 08 14:54:15 Stskeeps, amsn is said to work Feb 08 14:54:16 but thats good cos i haven't done my hair Feb 08 14:54:35 lcuk: why are you not using ekiga? Feb 08 14:54:41 qwerty12_N800: we should so include that as standard in mer.. Feb 08 14:54:50 thopiekar: you should test if ekiga video works in mer Feb 08 14:54:51 thopiekar, cos thats a random name ive never heard of ? Feb 08 14:55:19 Stskeeps, i was talking to crashanddie last night and i really really dont know how to pronounce mer Feb 08 14:55:19 lcuk: ekiga?! Feb 08 14:55:25 standart on ubuntu Feb 08 14:55:32 lcuk: kinda like "la mer" Feb 08 14:55:36 Stskeeps, hehe, I like emesene (beford hildonized it) but no video :) Feb 08 14:55:50 since i dont use ubuntu unless im forced to and i dont normally use im clients on any system i wouldnt know Feb 08 14:56:04 la mer still doesnt help cos ive never said that in polite conversation Feb 08 14:56:29 lay it out clearly (with a sound sample even..) Feb 08 14:56:42 do you have any ideo on this...http://pastebin.com/d56c30d9 Feb 08 14:56:47 cos "mer" "meer" "mear" "moar" Feb 08 14:56:53 "mur" Feb 08 14:57:00 just didnt sound right Feb 08 14:57:06 la mer d fuka Feb 08 14:57:22 "ferry over the MERsey" Feb 08 14:58:42 what time did lcuk810 leave the chan earlier? Feb 08 14:59:57 hmmm 4hours 10 minutes Feb 08 15:00:03 thopiekar: the log and rules you posted don't seem to match Feb 08 15:00:07 from full battery to drained Feb 08 15:00:25 adhoc, right? :P Feb 08 15:00:42 well, full - offline idle for a few hours, then connected and left Feb 08 15:00:45 yeah Feb 08 15:01:20 mikkov_: sure? Feb 08 15:01:26 by the way would anyone object strongly if i put a donate link as one of the default widgets for liqbase when installed and ran for the first time? Feb 08 15:01:30 if so, why Feb 08 15:02:26 thopiekar: the line where build process stops isn't found from the rules Feb 08 15:03:03 strange,, Feb 08 15:04:30 I'd suggest putting the donate icon at the bottom right so the user will have already seen all the cool features they are supporting. (Assuming left-right text encoding...) Feb 08 15:06:02 BTW, thank you for liqbase. I used it to take notes yesterday at FOSDEM 2009... Feb 08 15:07:32 :) i use it every day alan_peery, and I agree, it wont just be a raw donate now, im thinking of an overview and details and links to donate to a couple of sources :) Feb 08 15:11:51 uhoh Feb 08 15:12:04 laptop maybe dead Feb 08 15:17:30 mikkov_: thats the rules-file.. http://pastebin.com/d50a2b7bb Feb 08 15:18:39 * thopiekar can't understand why it's sooo hard to build mesa... Feb 08 15:20:40 florian, have you seen my latest video? :D Feb 08 15:21:17 hi all Feb 08 15:21:28 lcuk: noyet, i'm still at fosdem Feb 08 15:21:32 lcuk: what did you said in the vid? your biggest code ever? Feb 08 15:21:33 ^^ Feb 08 15:21:36 ahhh hows it going Feb 08 15:21:40 lcuk: have a link? Feb 08 15:21:57 thopiekar, its been a massive undertaking Feb 08 15:22:02 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMXp0Dg_UaY Feb 08 15:22:26 in both brainpower and coding, my fingers are literally down to bloody stumps Feb 08 15:22:52 :] Feb 08 15:30:56 * timelE61i waits for train Feb 08 15:31:13 thopiekar: is that debain/rules or debian/rules? where do you need mesa btw? Feb 08 15:31:50 mikkov_: for mixxx... Feb 08 15:33:01 debain, cute Feb 08 15:33:03 omg! i removed the source-folder and redownloaded it with ubuntus apt-get source Feb 08 15:33:08 and it works... Feb 08 15:33:19 ... at the moment.. Feb 08 15:33:20 ^^ Feb 08 15:33:35 silly scratchbox Feb 08 15:36:41 what did it do wrong? Feb 08 15:38:25 don't know... i replaced sb1's cp with qwerty12_N800's and then just redownloaded the mesa sourcefolder.. Feb 08 15:38:58 maybe I had to relogin into sb after replacing the cp binary Feb 08 15:52:52 * lcuk makes more shiny Feb 08 15:54:14 "During the lean years of the Great Depression, beans were also tagged "poor man's meat" because of their protein power at pennies per pound." https://www.usaemergencysupply.com/information_center/all_about_beans_legumes.htm Feb 08 15:57:43 sb is still compiling the mesa-packages.. Feb 08 16:09:40 pupnik: useful info indeed! Feb 08 16:10:06 * RST38h checks the price of beans, just in case Feb 08 16:10:13 ;) Feb 08 16:12:59 pupnik: Do they also sell firearms at this site? Feb 08 16:20:13 nooooooo Feb 08 16:20:33 after more than 30mins... Feb 08 16:21:07 * thopiekar is putting it into pastebin.... Feb 08 16:21:33 http://pastebin.com/d1a680fdd Feb 08 16:21:42 * thopiekar is going crazy... Feb 08 16:23:03 dpkg-deb: unknown compression type `lzma'! Feb 08 16:23:09 I think you can remove -Z lzma from the debian/rules file and rerun dpkg-buildpackage with -nc Feb 08 16:23:12 how can i add that Feb 08 16:23:22 ok Feb 08 16:24:06 what about the "--" before "-Zlzma"? Feb 08 16:24:23 Oh, that should go too Feb 08 16:24:46 afaik, it's just the compression method used on the final debs. I don't think they need to be strictly lzma Feb 08 16:25:22 ok Feb 08 16:25:24 Yep, "-Zcompress_type Specify which compression type to use when building a package. Allowed values are gzip, bzip2, lzma, and none (default is gzip)." Feb 08 16:26:18 will it build the binarys from the beginning? Feb 08 16:26:24 hi Heinz Feb 08 16:26:44 shouldn't do with nc but I can't guarantee anything Feb 08 16:26:59 s/Heinz/Meizirkki Feb 08 16:27:24 it worked before without -nc.. Feb 08 16:27:44 If you run it without nc, it will rebuild from the start for sure Feb 08 16:27:47 just dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot Feb 08 16:28:02 too late ^^ Feb 08 16:45:26 woho sb1 has finished Feb 08 16:45:41 could some brave soul possibly test if the donation thing work on http://liqbase.net/ :$ i have never used paypal before Feb 08 16:48:31 looks correct at a glance Feb 08 16:49:02 ok I will give you 1€ ^^ just because I get 5€ (even 4,55, don't know why) of this community and for your great code :) Feb 08 16:50:56 mom please Feb 08 16:53:20 lcuk: you want us to donate for your pile of... Feb 08 16:53:38 heh...shinyness Feb 08 16:53:44 lcuk: did you get the money? Feb 08 16:53:45 ^^ Feb 08 16:55:03 holy shit!! yes i did :D thank you so much for donating and testing Feb 08 16:55:49 hehe Feb 08 16:55:56 "Thank you, your payment is being processed. One moment please." Feb 08 16:56:13 how much did you get from my 1€? Feb 08 16:56:18 I shall send some $$$ too, a tiny bit later. Feb 08 16:56:48 I don't send monies Feb 08 16:56:51 I pay in beer Feb 08 16:57:31 thopiekar, £0.85 :) Feb 08 16:57:45 djeezus, 15% tax from Paypal Feb 08 16:57:47 i believe that works out so far at about 0.000000001p/hour :) Feb 08 16:58:12 lcuk: is gonna being a millionaire in times of the financial crisis ^^ Feb 08 16:58:16 i am so chuffed with how this is coming together Feb 08 16:58:32 lcuk: :) Feb 08 16:58:51 there you go Feb 08 16:59:00 give 'em a penny and they're all kicked up again Feb 08 16:59:36 lcuk: you just earned your first 85p in what... 2 years you've been working on the project? Feb 08 17:00:03 hahaha Feb 08 17:00:06 13 months now :) but its been in my head since the start Feb 08 17:00:09 my advice, don't quit your job just yet Feb 08 17:00:09 at least it's something Feb 08 17:00:19 that's my 2p Feb 08 17:00:23 it was supposed to be non-profit anyway Feb 08 17:00:42 we live on earth, there's no such thing as non-profit Feb 08 17:00:43 (except the "usefulness for author" profit) Feb 08 17:00:44 AStorm, why was it meant to be non profit? it was meant to be a way to use our touchscreens Feb 08 17:00:56 yeah that Feb 08 17:01:05 no monetary profit ofc Feb 08 17:01:32 everything always comes down to money Feb 08 17:01:51 if people are happy with what i am doing and wish to (like thopiekar has) offer a small amount I am not going to turn it down Feb 08 17:02:23 :) Feb 08 17:02:27 lcuk: actually, you asked him to test the link, he expects his money back within 7 working days :P Feb 08 17:02:36 lol Feb 08 17:02:40 PMSL! Feb 08 17:02:52 * lcuk does it in a backhanded way :P Feb 08 17:04:47 ;) Feb 08 17:08:35 on the one hand it was a test and on the other hand a donation for the great code, too Feb 08 17:08:36 ;) Feb 08 17:08:57 qwerty12: are the mesa packages useless? Feb 08 17:08:58 http://pastebin.com/d4c026964 Feb 08 17:10:03 goddamn, that is a lot of deps. You may be able to force install it but I can't guarantee nothing will be broken :/ Feb 08 17:11:09 hmm Feb 08 17:12:10 or just edit debain/control and set the dpkg dependences to the sdk'S one... i mean the version...+ Feb 08 17:13:59 btw. I want to reinstall dpkg but I get this message... Feb 08 17:14:09 * timelE61i found qgil again Feb 08 17:14:16 we're sharing a flight Feb 08 17:14:21 http://pastebin.com/d19307bb1 Feb 08 17:15:14 fakeroot apt-get whatever Feb 08 17:17:16 thnaks Feb 08 17:19:31 so whats about my suggestion to downgrade the dpkg-versions in debain/control? Feb 08 17:19:36 @ qwerty12 Feb 08 17:20:18 Probably could work, if the packages in question don't actually need anything from the newer version. Feb 08 17:21:13 hmm ok.. I will try it out.. Feb 08 17:29:51 a Feb 08 17:29:55 oops. Feb 08 17:30:04 b. Feb 08 17:30:33 Stskeeps: ^^ Feb 08 17:33:42 StsN800, hald-addon-retu-adc is running. I was wondering how it was going to get a udi; it needed a policy, so I put one in /usr/share/hal/fdi/policy/10osvendor. Now I'll try and do something with it. Feb 08 17:33:53 roope, are you testing the new tablet keyboard (with a single letter :P) Feb 08 17:33:55 k, sounds good Feb 08 17:34:10 (daperl) Feb 08 17:45:04 lcuk: why's there a tax? Feb 08 17:46:00 timelE61i: on paypal? Feb 08 17:46:13 yeah Feb 08 17:47:22 I don't know.. a greece user Jake(..xy..) just donated me 5€'s but I just got 4,55 on my account... Feb 08 17:47:58 thopiekar, paypal tax Feb 08 17:48:06 -.-' Feb 08 17:48:23 some % of a transaction Feb 08 17:48:43 timelE61i, otherwise they'd have to stop operating Feb 08 17:49:54 * RST38h has no problem with PayPal stopping operations Feb 08 17:50:34 hehe Feb 08 17:50:46 then we'd use some other service like it Feb 08 17:52:02 qwerty12: do you have any suggestions for that!? http://pastebin.com/d3eed517e Feb 08 17:53:00 thopiekar, give up? Feb 08 17:53:20 ahaha! (^^) Feb 08 17:54:04 * qwerty12 twiddles thumbs while he waits for his droid sans package to be transferred to extras Feb 08 18:02:16 * thopiekar noticed that he has forgotten to change a dpkg in debian/control... Feb 08 18:05:54 johnx: heyhey Feb 08 18:06:30 qwerty: make cdogs controls better! Feb 08 18:06:48 RST38h, how so? :) Feb 08 18:07:07 and, btw, return is the useless dpad center key ;) Feb 08 18:07:11 Although I do see that starting a game is a little odd.. Feb 08 18:07:30 I know, that's why I map to that. Feb 08 18:07:37 qwerty: touchscreen Feb 08 18:08:11 dont use return, it is all but unusable Feb 08 18:08:15 lo johnx Feb 08 18:08:26 er Feb 08 18:08:37 use kpenter instead or in parallel Feb 08 18:08:37 lo b-man Feb 08 18:08:47 RST38h, I'm on a N800 - I'm not exactly spoiled for choice here :) Feb 08 18:08:58 oh Feb 08 18:09:10 hello, StsN800 Feb 08 18:09:10 touchscreen then Feb 08 18:09:38 * b-man thinks he is being spyed on by a hacker ;p Feb 08 18:10:12 because of a wedsite i'm on Feb 08 18:10:29 the horror! Feb 08 18:11:01 yeah, everyone's profile on the site is being stolen Feb 08 18:11:08 qwerty12: can i lure you to package up evkey btq Feb 08 18:11:11 btw? Feb 08 18:11:33 Stskeeps, sure. Binary installed in /usr/bin? Feb 08 18:11:33 * thopiekar is scared by getting this mail when working on the mesa packages... http://pastebin.com/d4e0337f9 Feb 08 18:11:41 is that normal? Feb 08 18:11:48 qwerty12: k Feb 08 18:12:04 alright, we're boarded Feb 08 18:12:32 have a safe flight Feb 08 18:12:40 RST38h, if I can figure out "mouse" input, I'll try and add touchscreen support sometime (but I'm clueless so I can't promise anything) Feb 08 18:12:42 thanks Feb 08 18:13:29 Stskeeps: btw, i'll have that newer version of merinstaller uploaded sometime today ;) Feb 08 18:14:06 k Feb 08 18:14:48 what happened to bzr btw? i have time now so Feb 08 18:15:10 and used to order sex toys! Feb 08 18:16:11 that was about stolen profiles if you wonder =) Feb 08 18:16:21 StsN800; i'll give it another try Feb 08 18:16:29 k Feb 08 18:17:06 StsN800, I'm taking evkey from here: https://stage.maemo.org/svn/maemo/projects/haf/tags/bootmenu/1/evkey.c Feb 08 18:17:52 deal Feb 08 18:18:53 .. why is bootmenu in stage? Feb 08 18:22:33 StsN800, http://trac.tspre.org/qwerty12/evkey - lemme know if that runs in Mer on a N8x0, if so then I'll finish off packaging today Feb 08 18:23:39 k, just src pkg Feb 08 18:25:08 ? , I asked to see if it works? Feb 08 18:26:10 yeah Feb 08 18:28:03 qwerty12_N800, runs Feb 08 18:28:23 Cool, I'll package it up then. Feb 08 18:28:36 ta dude Feb 08 18:55:07 All righty, found the last bug Feb 08 19:16:45 dpkg: dependency problems prevent configuration of libglu1-mesa-dev: Feb 08 19:16:45 libglu1-mesa-dev depends on libgl1-mesa-dev | libgl-dev; however: Feb 08 19:17:05 * very logical (libglu1-mesa-dev depends on libgl1-mesa-dev) Feb 08 19:25:49 Anyone knows where CPULoad applet places screenshots? Feb 08 19:27:07 /home/user/MyDocs/.images Feb 08 19:29:07 thanks Feb 08 19:37:06 Ok, ATI85 is now in Extras Feb 08 19:38:02 thanks Feb 08 19:44:23 shout: is here someone of the "maemo-qt" project? Feb 08 19:44:23 it seems that there is a problem with a qt-package.. but I'm not 100% sure.. it's even 24,9p%^^ http://pastebin.com/d140d34c7 Feb 08 19:53:40 RST38h: eeeeh Feb 08 19:54:57 RST38h: alpha and 2nd swaped with colors :) Feb 08 19:55:14 RST38h: how's tha?)) Feb 08 19:57:21 wazd: Dunno, I got your latest png =) Feb 08 19:57:44 RST38h: noway :) Feb 08 19:57:45 wazd: Send me a fixed one and I will include it with the next release. Feb 08 19:57:51 RST38h: http://s43.radikal.ru/i100/0902/9f/cdfec4a2f7c4.png Feb 08 19:58:05 RST38h: that's the latest :) Feb 08 19:58:07 Alpha should be blue? Feb 08 19:58:23 RST38h: It always was blue :) Feb 08 19:59:04 RST38h: I don't even have versions with gold alpha :) Feb 08 19:59:39 And I can make screen color same as in Emu Feb 08 19:59:45 if its not changable Feb 08 19:59:56 wazd: well believe it or not but the png in the deb package has correct alpha and 2nd colors Feb 08 20:00:13 wazd: golden 2nd, blue alpha under it, right? Feb 08 20:00:31 RST38h: nope) I'll make a shot Feb 08 20:02:45 http://s53.radikal.ru/i141/0902/ea/c1adad1700cc.png Feb 08 20:02:52 This is weird :) Feb 08 20:03:34 looks like misplaced hue or something Feb 08 20:04:14 weird indeed Feb 08 20:04:18 "Mer cleared, defaults set" !!! Feb 08 20:04:44 yellow and blue are swapped Feb 08 20:05:06 Maybe thats why scren color is different) Feb 08 20:05:14 screen* Feb 08 20:05:19 it is probably the png loader Feb 08 20:05:20 lemme check Feb 08 20:05:54 You have the same bug btw) Feb 08 20:06:04 You just missed it :) Feb 08 20:06:19 oh well, fixing it Feb 08 20:06:30 btw, I have added ti86 emulation as well Feb 08 20:07:15 RST38h: should I draw a skin for it?) Feb 08 20:07:22 Have not tested it yet but HELL YES! Feb 08 20:07:40 86 is kinda trivial as it does not change the architecture much Feb 08 20:07:41 * thopiekar is thinking about making own qt-packages with sb1... Feb 08 20:07:57 Stskeeps, evkey done (apologies for taking a while), i'll upload package soon Feb 08 20:08:35 wazd: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TI-86 (if possible, keep key sizes and coordinates the same - I would hate to do the measurements again =)) Feb 08 20:08:40 qwerty12_N800: its fine, i havent gotten shit done. think my work laptop is frying itself Feb 08 20:08:51 :( Feb 08 20:09:12 so now im putting mer on my old laptop Feb 08 20:09:23 have to eat my own dogfood Feb 08 20:09:26 RST38h: sure) Feb 08 20:10:17 If anyone of you were at the fosdem dinner: Thanks again for the nice evening! Feb 08 20:10:18 wazd: screen colors in these beasts were configurable Feb 08 20:10:32 wazd: try pressing 2nd and then holding Up or Down keys Feb 08 20:10:38 (and yes, I have a bug there :)) Feb 08 20:10:56 hey Blafasel, haven't seen you for a while :) Feb 08 20:11:13 qwerty12_N800: Lurking here, doing "stuff". ;) Feb 08 20:11:21 hehe Feb 08 20:11:25 But the fosdem event sparked new interest. Have to restart Feb 08 20:15:12 can I install Mer alongside Diablo using multiboot? Feb 08 20:15:13 RST38h: looks like contrast setting. But it remains to be "yelowish". I can change surrounding color to fit this Feb 08 20:15:31 http://pastebin.com/m6a38c111 Feb 08 20:17:08 wazd: Nah, leave it as it is - in the real thing, there is a thin frame around that has somewhat lighter color Feb 08 20:17:21 wazd: I am going to play with the colors anyway, for the next release Feb 08 20:17:25 oh, yes, it's still bootmenu based Feb 08 20:18:18 lbt, still bootmenu.d yeah Feb 08 20:18:38 RST38h: http://s42.radikal.ru/i098/0902/c4/f3434dced93e.png Feb 08 20:19:00 RST38h: something like that Feb 08 20:19:12 Ta - was just scanning the wiki to try and see :) Feb 08 20:19:54 wazd: original thing had it a bit greenish Feb 08 20:19:59 with bluish letters Feb 08 20:20:11 so let us leave it as it was for now, the colors were correct Feb 08 20:20:27 RST38h: k) Feb 08 20:21:28 Stskeeps: would it be fair to say one goal is "to allow Mer to dual-boot alongside the official Nokia OS releases" Feb 08 20:21:55 I think that may encourage users who may be concerned about 'switching' Feb 08 20:22:04 (like me) Feb 08 20:25:36 does anyone know here I can get the qgl.h header? Feb 08 20:29:06 Stskeeps, do armel packages still get built automatically? Feb 08 20:29:16 hmm? Feb 08 20:29:52 nm :) Feb 08 20:33:20 is there a way to get know in which qt package qgl.h is stored? Feb 08 20:40:12 Stskeeps, can i get the builder building evkey on a real armel machine? sbox is retarded Feb 08 20:43:45 qwerty12_N800, if armel-sb fails it builds it on qemu-armel Feb 08 20:43:56 cool Feb 08 20:44:25 sb is an accelerator, not what defines the platform Feb 08 20:45:17 but it's retarded when it only has debhelper 5 and I've ran dh_make under a platform with debhelper 7 Feb 08 20:47:41 yeah Feb 08 20:48:47 gnuton: have you some time? Feb 08 20:48:53 ... for me ^^ Feb 08 20:49:08 thopiekar: depend.. :P Feb 08 20:49:29 thopiekar: what's the problem? Feb 08 20:50:23 I want to repackage mixxx a dj'ing program from ubuntu's apt-get source... Feb 08 20:50:33 but i get this output.. Feb 08 20:51:12 kouso from #mixxx said thats because qgl.h is missing... Feb 08 20:51:55 I know the tablet has no openGL but is there a way to get a libqt4-dev with that header? Feb 08 20:51:55 thopiekar: that's true. Feb 08 20:52:04 StsN800, whee, and armel finally built :) Feb 08 20:52:16 thopiekar: there is no OpenGL support yet Feb 08 20:52:35 gnuton: date? Feb 08 20:53:01 thopiekar: We will have OpenGL ES 2.0 in freemantle Feb 08 20:53:07 fremantle Feb 08 20:53:07 kouso from #mixxx pleased me very much to work on that... Feb 08 20:53:24 -.-' so not for my tablet.. Feb 08 20:53:57 * thopiekar hates the reality.... Feb 08 20:54:05 thopiekar: No, unfotunatelly the current tablets can't have any OpenGL acceleration.. :( Feb 08 20:54:40 I'm sorry.. Feb 08 20:54:42 is it possible to get a qgl.h of a x86-system and put it into sb1? Feb 08 20:54:59 thopiekar: you can copy the header file Feb 08 20:55:07 gnuton: not your fault.. Feb 08 20:55:14 yes! Feb 08 20:55:18 but it doesn't work anyway :P Feb 08 20:55:33 hmm your are right.. Feb 08 20:55:53 Stskeeps, btw, re bash completeion, I cleaned out my /etc/bash_completion.d (it only has mpc, pon & unrar) and times to start a bash shell in Maemo are back to pre bash-completion speeds Feb 08 20:56:06 thopiekar: so Give up.. Feb 08 20:56:26 thopiekar: for now Feb 08 20:57:08 thopiekar: by the way Kate fighted a lot to have the OpenGL driver for N810.. Feb 08 20:57:11 but what about starting a new project on garage called tabetDJ?? kousu of #mixxx said that i could replace/remove the openGL callbacks... Feb 08 20:57:18 but nothing is happend.. :( Feb 08 20:57:57 thopiekar: I don't know if the OpenGL stuff in that app are mandatory. Feb 08 20:57:59 gnuton: what!? opengl for n810?! they would work on a n800, too right? Feb 08 20:58:16 thopiekar: I think so Feb 08 21:00:04 wooho if she has the driver let hack her pc ^^ *jokely* Feb 08 21:00:15 *let'S Feb 08 21:01:28 thopiekar: aha :D Feb 08 21:02:15 i think nothing is more needed as this driver... Feb 08 21:02:21 btw. are here any interested people, who want to port mixxx to maemo4.1?? Feb 08 21:04:19 thopiekar: you can blam Texas Instrument for this Feb 08 21:06:14 one clap to everyone's stupid face! (^^) Feb 08 21:07:06 * thopiekar hates these closedsource idiots^^ Feb 08 21:09:41 thopiekar: everyone hate them Feb 08 21:10:02 But unfortunatelly we can't do anything :( Feb 08 21:10:15 nothing :P Feb 08 21:10:22 ;D Feb 08 21:10:58 gnuton, code round the damage :) Feb 08 21:11:14 you seen my latest vid? Feb 08 21:11:31 * benson blams Texas Instrument for this... Blam! Blam! Blam! Feb 08 21:15:20 Stskeeps: http://trac.tspre.org/bman/merinstaller-mer4/merinstaller_1.9.7-mer4_armel.deb uploaded :) Feb 08 21:18:31 Priceless: http://news.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/02/08/1819254&from=rss Feb 08 21:19:49 offtopic but : omg! http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=apt&word2=rpm Feb 08 21:23:10 hEllo from hel Feb 08 21:23:37 hi timelE61i Feb 08 21:24:15 anyone here have a beagleboard? Feb 08 21:24:22 yes Feb 08 21:24:29 got mer on it? Feb 08 21:24:57 not yet... Feb 08 21:25:27 any blockers? Feb 08 21:26:05 infobot: New video from lcuk is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMXp0Dg_UaY Feb 08 21:26:06 botAbusers.push_back(new video from lcuk is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMXp0Dg_UaY); Feb 08 21:26:19 :( Feb 08 21:26:54 ? Feb 08 21:27:16 timelE61i: not sure... is there an image for it yet? Feb 08 21:27:48 * timelE61i ponders Feb 08 21:28:07 the kernels for mer-arm aren't generic enough? Feb 08 21:28:26 * timelE61i knows nothing about beagleboard Feb 08 21:29:23 liqbase is very fast... can it be used to replace openGL of other programs? gnuton maybe know why I'm asking that.. Feb 08 21:30:11 timelE61i: no... or very very unlikely. SoC devices are not PCs Feb 08 21:32:41 i have written liqbase with expansion in mind. UPGRADING from the current system and using things like opengl on systems that support it well. however liqbase is not a 3d system and cannot currently host opengl apps Feb 08 21:33:38 by starting with the minimal system I have set a baseline and the UI should be functional on all current and future hardware. Feb 08 21:33:54 lcuk: just add a filter for unicode and .pdf Feb 08 21:34:14 lcuk: yes your latest video looks really impressive Feb 08 21:34:23 in a few weeks you can: it interests you and others, but if i get stuck into doing that one thing we cannot have a better overall system Feb 08 21:36:02 timelE61i, i will ensure the book reader has enough documentation to allow nice document reading in whatever formats lie ahead Feb 08 21:37:33 dum question - is there any graphical editors for creating .swf files available for ubuntu? Feb 08 21:42:23 thopiekar: Clutter is enougth fast, but havin OpenGL means having also 3D accelleration.. Feb 08 21:45:00 openGL is just used in mixxx for the "waveform"... also the classic part of the app where you can "scratch"... Feb 08 21:45:30 so 3D isn't really used it just has to be fast... in 2D.. Feb 08 21:45:53 s/in 2D.../(in 2D..) Feb 08 21:45:57 ^^ Feb 08 21:47:09 gnuton, whats performance of clutter on omap3, ive seen some general ogl demos but not clutter itself Feb 08 22:09:13 http://pastebin.com/d52b0150e ( lcuk ) Feb 08 22:12:10 I can't find my n810, ssh'ing into it to start mplayer so I can hear it Feb 08 22:12:50 mavhc: ? Feb 08 22:13:34 * thopiekar is shuting down the pc Feb 08 22:15:51 woo, mer on my old laptop Feb 08 22:19:00 Next step is "mer on coffee-machine" and "Mer on vacum" :D Feb 08 22:19:49 Don't forget the toaster :P Feb 08 22:20:34 its the mertop! Feb 08 22:20:46 hehe Feb 08 22:20:47 mertop :D Feb 08 22:20:58 lol Feb 08 22:21:26 this can be read on 100m distance Feb 08 22:21:55 hehe Feb 08 22:22:10 sts|mertop, "visible from orbit" Feb 08 22:22:19 XD Feb 08 22:22:29 ^^ Feb 08 22:22:40 sts|mertop; http://trac.tspre.org/bman/merinstaller-mer4/ - uploaded new merinstaller package ;) Feb 08 22:23:01 b-man: alright, would still like to see it committed to bzr Feb 08 22:23:03 I love the idea of a dynamic touchable slate being used by old people :) Feb 08 22:23:14 really big easy focus controls Feb 08 22:24:31 but seriously, we need to fix that ctrl-m problem. Feb 08 22:24:32 wow... my psu on my shuttle k45 died Feb 08 22:24:37 so i got a picopsu to replace it Feb 08 22:24:43 picopsus are interesting Feb 08 22:24:45 which wound up costing just as much as a k45 Feb 08 22:24:54 :) Feb 08 22:25:18 at least the picoPSU will not make the disgusting noise the fan in the stock psu made Feb 08 22:25:41 it's really no wonder why it died now.. it sounded like it was grinding to death Feb 08 22:26:50 mini-box.com has some interesting shit Feb 08 22:26:56 i might make something even smaller if i get the chance Feb 08 22:29:30 wonder what i'm going to do about that giant hole where the stock psu used to be.. guess i'll just put some tape there Feb 08 22:31:10 * thopiekar_N800 has thought that Macer is just another user using mer.. maybe M(ac)er on an (M)acer pc/laptop... but this would be a unbeleaveable chance... Feb 08 22:31:38 er... no.. i'm on my mb Feb 08 22:31:45 i haven't even put mer on my n800 yet :) Feb 08 22:32:00 i'm still using maemo... will probably put it on tomorrow tho to try it out Feb 08 22:32:18 ^^ Feb 08 22:32:20 just need to grab another SD .. i like being able to print from my sd maemo install with my n800 Feb 08 22:32:37 works great with my su8w and brother laser printer Feb 08 22:32:43 sure wish i had a good office app and cups for my damn G1 Feb 08 22:33:02 and bt kb support :) Feb 08 22:33:22 and an external monitor Feb 08 22:33:51 mavhc: for what? Feb 08 22:34:20 for the desktop computer in a phone Feb 08 22:35:39 i present you the http://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/mertop.jpg - the friggen mertop! Feb 08 22:36:26 mavhc - would be nice to just use vnc for it ;) Feb 08 22:36:54 vnc has an independent display.. might go a little slower.. but at least you'd get a larger desktop Feb 08 22:37:05 what about those usb monitors? Feb 08 22:37:06 It's a Merbook! Feb 08 22:37:10 Not a Mertop! Feb 08 22:37:36 surely a merbook is mer ported to kindle Feb 08 22:37:56 wow sts :) that looks a little ghetto Feb 08 22:39:20 i was bored and my other laptop is crashy Feb 08 22:39:39 excuse me, a question: how can I edit bootmenu.sh? I'm logged in as root (ssh), but it's still readonly Feb 08 22:40:05 mount -o remount,rw /mnt/initfs/ Feb 08 22:40:48 ah thanks Feb 08 22:41:01 just need to change the timeout and menu entries :) Feb 08 22:43:18 i can reveal that droid sand is .. interesting, on a huge screen Feb 08 22:43:36 sans Feb 08 22:43:37 good or bad? :/ Feb 08 22:44:06 not sure Feb 08 22:45:17 i'm still kind of pissed about this damn shuttle Feb 08 22:45:21 with its shitty psu Feb 08 22:45:36 i wound up spending like $60 for this damn picoPSU Feb 08 22:45:48 on a barebones case/mb that cost $90 Feb 08 22:46:03 DAMN YOU CHINA! Feb 08 22:48:09 :D Feb 08 22:49:12 I do irc-know the guy writing the linux drivers for displaylink, but looking at http://www.ndiyo.org they're not going to be open source for a while Feb 08 22:49:27 hm. Feb 08 22:49:36 they seriously need to make an esxi client for osx or X Feb 08 22:49:46 i need one.. i don't have a windows box anymore right now Feb 08 22:49:59 think it's time to install fusion on the macbook or something Feb 08 22:53:35 is streamripper opensource..? Feb 08 22:58:25 http://fora.tv/2007/09/27/Implementing_Science_Fiction#Motivations_Behind_Computer_Hacking Feb 08 22:58:33 :D wow Feb 08 23:02:39 * thopiekar_N800 is away: Feb 08 23:04:51 hello everyone. Feb 08 23:05:10 evening Feb 08 23:05:26 hi *oops Feb 08 23:05:59 stskeeps: looking forward to trying mer if ever i get some free time :/ Feb 08 23:06:05 away from tablet.. isnt that impossible Feb 08 23:06:44 generalantilles: ping Feb 08 23:06:54 jiiv: hehe, i think my devel time just dropped 15 percent, my home laptop overheats and dies Feb 08 23:06:57 well, i'm fairly reliant on the 810 for worky stuff at this point. Feb 08 23:07:06 ick1 Feb 08 23:07:46 grab a vmdk then Feb 08 23:08:09 how does power management compare to maemo now? deblet rocked, but seemed to kill batteries pretty quickly. Feb 08 23:09:38 didn't start measuring yet as we need to replicate some stuff to give really good power savings (mce) Feb 08 23:10:55 ah. i may go ahead and throw it on a spare card later and see how it goes. Feb 08 23:11:26 :nod: else fire it up in vmware or virtualbox Feb 08 23:11:34 sts: got a diablo device? Feb 08 23:11:39 * timeless is reviewing strings Feb 08 23:12:26 timeless, w Feb 08 23:12:36 open bookmarks Feb 08 23:12:44 app menu>bookmark Feb 08 23:12:56 i'm considering dropping the elipsis for 'edit' in that menu Feb 08 23:13:08 do you understand the rules for elipsis? Feb 08 23:13:43 It opens a dialog though Feb 08 23:13:51 that's not the rule Feb 08 23:14:16 the rule is based on whether the dialog is the intended consequence or something which interrupts the intended action Feb 08 23:14:26 anybody here mess with fusion? Feb 08 23:14:29 a 'settings' dialog should have a menu item w/o an elipsis Feb 08 23:14:35 timeless, bookmarks so need an ordering feature Feb 08 23:14:44 i guess there is no infrastructure client for osx for esxi Feb 08 23:14:47 Oh, unrelated question: anyone know of a way to lock the position of home applets in maemo? i haven't found a solution yet and i'm sick of moving them around on accident. Feb 08 23:14:50 what a let down Feb 08 23:14:55 /agree sts Feb 08 23:14:57 because the goal of selecting settings is to view/edit the settings Feb 08 23:15:05 jiiv, fixedinfremantle Feb 08 23:15:12 sts: bookmarks need to be shot, we're going ot shoot them for fremantle Feb 08 23:15:17 is fremantle out? Feb 08 23:15:22 ah :/ ok. Feb 08 23:15:32 macer: we haven't event shipped an alpha sdk for fremantle Feb 08 23:15:43 heh.. i see Feb 08 23:15:44 last i checked there was a pre2 of an alpha sdk Feb 08 23:15:53 it's not going to work on an n800 anyways is it? Feb 08 23:16:00 jiiv, there's a patched h-d on bugzilla but it doesn't remember a lock setting on reboot Feb 08 23:16:09 talk about feeling abandoned :) Feb 08 23:16:22 Macer: purpose of mer.. Feb 08 23:16:40 qwerty: thanks, will have a look. Feb 08 23:16:42 this discussion was earlier today Feb 08 23:16:55 ah.. missed it Feb 08 23:17:03 still.. mer is all community open source Feb 08 23:17:21 any actual nokia support for it? Feb 08 23:17:27 you say that it's like a bad thing Feb 08 23:17:47 heh Feb 08 23:17:50 sometimes it is Feb 08 23:18:12 Macer: again, we had discussion already earlier today. yes, nokia helps a lot already Feb 08 23:18:15 look at GTK :) Feb 08 23:21:35 the pre-alpha code drops has made it possible to get quite ahead, so :P Feb 08 23:25:14 well... still have a couple more months of record unemployment numbers Feb 08 23:25:58 morning all :) Feb 08 23:26:02 morn johnx Feb 08 23:26:06 hey johnx Feb 08 23:26:14 johnx: ze mertop!: http://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/mertop.jpg :> Feb 08 23:26:15 it's actually almost night time here Feb 08 23:26:31 Macer, yeah, but I'm on UGT Feb 08 23:26:34 * timeless grumbles Feb 08 23:26:42 is "Zoom in" used in diablo's browser? Feb 08 23:26:57 Macer, it's nearly midnight here :p Feb 08 23:27:08 heh Feb 08 23:27:22 timeless: "Zooming to"? Feb 08 23:27:25 almost midnight? Feb 08 23:27:28 where are you at? iceland? Feb 08 23:27:36 London :P Feb 08 23:27:47 close enough :) Feb 08 23:27:56 Stskeeps, nice :) our h-d could use a little bit of resolution independence Feb 08 23:31:18 Berlin,Germany (oops^^) Feb 08 23:31:44 Say, I just ordered up a Nokia N810. However, from what I can see in pictures, the keyboard lacks a tab key. Since I do a fair number of things with tab-complete, I was wondering is there a way to rig up a hotkey combo for a pseudo-tab? Feb 08 23:32:24 like in a terminal? Feb 08 23:32:51 I've seen posts on itt where people describe how to map tab to a keyboard button somewhere Feb 08 23:33:30 or ctrl-i should work Feb 08 23:33:38 in the terminal at least Feb 08 23:34:03 johnx: Cool, that would be okay. Feb 08 23:34:16 qwerty12_N800: Don't suppose you bothered to bookmark any eh? Feb 08 23:34:37 Nope, got an N800 here :) Feb 08 23:34:59 you kids and your N810s with physical keyboards. Why back in our day... :D Feb 08 23:35:26 qwerty/johnx: wanna try a new version of my strings? Feb 08 23:35:39 timeless, sure Feb 08 23:35:40 sts: i specifically mean a 'zoom in' or a 'zoom out' menu item Feb 08 23:35:41 tonyyarusso, just a mo Feb 08 23:35:58 it's vaguely possible such a string is used in a context menu of a frame or something similarly obscure Feb 08 23:35:59 http://www.thisismobility.com/blog/2007/12/31/adding-pipe-and-tab-to-the-n810-keyboard/ Feb 08 23:36:00 timeless: don't think so Feb 08 23:36:02 tonyarusso: something like xmodmap -e 'comma = comma tab tab tab tab tab' will turn function-comma into a tab. Feb 08 23:36:03 i remember the keywords :) Feb 08 23:36:06 read the comments as well Feb 08 23:36:12 johnx: Hehe. What can I say, it was on sale for like $250 off. Feb 08 23:36:17 johnx, :) i like res free rendering Feb 08 23:36:23 tonyyarusso, google "nokia_vndr/rx-44" Feb 08 23:36:46 ah lcuk got there first :) Feb 08 23:36:56 or google "n810 pipe tab" Feb 08 23:37:03 which is what i remember it as Feb 08 23:37:04 sweet Feb 08 23:37:15 the comments give an alternative method as well Feb 08 23:37:18 so read it all first Feb 08 23:37:26 timeless, not now, i can't be bothered to run dpkg at 11:37 pm sorry :) Feb 08 23:37:45 lol Feb 08 23:38:01 qwerty12_N800, jeez. it's later here :P Feb 08 23:38:05 * b-man compiles packages untill he falls asleep Feb 08 23:39:03 johnx, i made myself tired by debianising evkey in a mer chroot with on hildon keyboard :o :P Feb 08 23:39:22 s/on/only a/ Feb 08 23:39:22 qwerty12_N800 meant: johnx, i made myself tired by debianising evkey in a mer chroot with only a hildon keyboard :o :P Feb 08 23:39:33 well, then I appreciate the work :) you have permission to be tired Feb 08 23:39:44 hehe :) Feb 08 23:41:15 * timeless grumbles Feb 08 23:41:30 * Stskeeps heads to bed Feb 08 23:41:43 can someone please explain why (browser)app Menu>Navigation> has Bookmarks(!) but History list(...) Feb 08 23:41:46 * qwerty12_N800 really needs to figure out how he can get osso_cp_plugin_execute to play nice with advanced backlight. so far I've added a "display settings" option that segfaults hildon desktop >.< Feb 08 23:43:31 hrm, seems maemo can't get elipsis right for Settings Feb 08 23:43:36 * timeless will fix that in a future rev Feb 08 23:43:39 perhaps 0.1.2 Feb 08 23:50:06 heh...so the 'we can't guarantee' your software will be changed in 0.1.2 or you're sticking with it? Feb 08 23:50:24 oh, i forgot Feb 08 23:51:11 This software might work, there are no guarantees about it. Feb 08 23:51:21 that's not true either Feb 08 23:51:32 This software might not work, there are no guarantees about it. Feb 08 23:51:43 there are two strings Feb 08 23:51:50 closer, but conceivably the person who put it in extras is providing a guarantee Feb 08 23:51:58 oh Feb 08 23:52:05 so, the difference between work and not work Feb 08 23:52:10 is whether it mgiht be from nokia Feb 08 23:52:14 ha! Feb 08 23:52:16 really? Feb 08 23:52:18 if it is from nokia, it's the latter Feb 08 23:52:18 yes Feb 08 23:52:31 cute Feb 08 23:53:32 This software might (not) work, there are no guarantees. Feb 08 23:54:22 gah! but that's still not necessarily true. the intent is to excuse Nokia, not anyone else :P Feb 08 23:54:31 yeah well Feb 08 23:54:38 i'm screwing the intent here Feb 08 23:54:39 :) Feb 08 23:54:55 eh, then you'll get nothing but bug reports from me :P Feb 08 23:55:07 alright, offer something else Feb 08 23:55:28 the dialogs happen for 'might be from nokia (or not)' and 'not from a verified source' Feb 08 23:55:32 whatever those concepts are Feb 08 23:55:41 ask the h-a-m- code Feb 08 23:55:58 This software ( may | may not) work, but Nokia provides no guarantee. Do you still want to continue installing it? Feb 08 23:55:58 ai_nc_non_verified_package, ai_nc_unsure_package Feb 08 23:57:10 This software may (not) work and Nokia does not provide any guarantees. Do you still want to install it? Feb 08 23:57:33 i take it you don't like 'at your own risk'? Feb 08 23:58:07 that's lawyer-speak that I wouldn't mind seeing on the cutting room floor :) Feb 08 23:58:13 alright Feb 08 23:58:31 you picked 'may' over 'might' Feb 08 23:58:33 any reason? Feb 08 23:58:50 aesthetic preference Feb 08 23:59:02 alright, may + but Feb 08 23:59:02 dunno Feb 08 23:59:31 I really don't care about the specifics, but I think the important part is including "Nokia" somewhere in there Feb 08 23:59:35 should do you want to install it be on its own line? Feb 08 23:59:35 an arctic fox female has a penis and lays an egg in the male Feb 08 23:59:38 how odd Feb 09 00:00:15 timeless, they're the ones that cared enough to add a click-through to a linux package manager. it's important for users to understand that the warning is coming from them I think Feb 09 00:00:24 macer: that wikipedia article has dozens of typos in a single paragraph Feb 09 00:00:27 also: I'm sure the lawyers had to vet the original string Feb 09 00:00:39 yeah.. i thought that was strange too Feb 09 00:00:50 timeless: i think i'll find another article heh Feb 09 00:00:58 from another web site or something Feb 09 00:01:30 or try that new tool for visualizing wiki-fights :) Feb 09 00:01:32 http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Arctic_Fox&diff=269389852&oldid=269119311 Feb 09 00:01:40 wikipedia is being attacked Feb 09 00:01:44 at least that page is Feb 09 00:02:12 http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Arctic_Fox&diff=269389852&oldid=269119311 Feb 09 00:02:17 err, wrong window Feb 09 00:02:43 heh.. yeah Feb 09 00:02:46 that article is fucked Feb 09 00:03:54 i thought the female penis and inside the male egg laying was ... well.. very unmammal like Feb 09 00:07:18 Macer, that's what she said Feb 09 00:08:12 haha Feb 09 00:08:25 you know.. the hax0r should have left all the typos out Feb 09 00:08:28 :) Feb 09 00:09:01 then i would have seriously thought that female penii lay eggs in male arctic foxes Feb 09 00:09:07 'hax0ring' wikipedia: like stealing books from a library or jacking food from your local food bank Feb 09 00:09:31 hah Feb 09 00:09:55 yeah.. i suppose so :) well.. i can write wikipedia off the list of sites to get information from Feb 09 00:10:05 eh Feb 09 00:10:13 there goes my whole concept of the theory of relativity Feb 09 00:10:33 you just have to be critical about what you read...just like...anywhere Feb 09 00:10:58 btw, that Fox page fixed itself Feb 09 00:11:06 i suppose.. but i wouldn't be as critical towards encyclopedia britanica Feb 09 00:11:11 ;) Feb 09 00:11:34 I just saw a stat. Forget the >50 number, but a vast majority of wiki edits are reviewed within 5 minutes. Feb 09 00:11:40 which is silly, because as a corporation they may have a vested interest in affecting your opinions on certain subjects Feb 09 00:11:54 and individuals don't? Feb 09 00:12:05 johnx: possibly.. if there were encyclopedia lobbyists outside their doors ? ;) Feb 09 00:12:06 that was @Macer. I'm just too slow before coffee Feb 09 00:12:14 which i doubt because sales are down Feb 09 00:12:39 or if they had an article on wikipedia :) Feb 09 00:13:35 aha Feb 09 00:13:50 or by extension: the internet Feb 09 00:13:58 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Encyclopedia_britanica Feb 09 00:14:02 what a slap in the face that is Feb 09 00:14:06 :) Feb 09 00:14:24 or if they were associated with another company who might have expressed that it would be nice if the negative parts were cut out of the article about them Feb 09 00:14:44 heh Feb 09 00:14:54 yeah i suppose... but eventually someone would discover such a thing Feb 09 00:15:05 and then...? Feb 09 00:15:16 blackmail them i suppose Feb 09 00:15:28 God knows that they wouldn't want to tell others when there is self gain to be made :) Feb 09 00:15:31 you're right. sounds like a fine system :) Feb 09 00:15:36 isn't it? Feb 09 00:15:42 greed usually is Feb 09 00:16:13 bbl.. need to eat and take a nap Feb 09 00:16:20 have to take the gf and her mother to the airport tomorrow Feb 09 00:16:35 later Feb 09 00:18:27 so um Feb 09 00:18:29 help? Feb 09 00:18:36 anyone here understand cauldron? Feb 09 00:18:37 hm? Feb 09 00:19:45 https://garage.maemo.org/builder/diablo/language-support-translations-enus1_0.1.1/i386.build.log.FAILED.txt Feb 09 00:19:55 what does that mean? Feb 09 00:22:04 i've tried the commands it lists in my Mer session Feb 09 00:22:06 and it works fine Feb 09 00:22:14 me & sp3000 sorted that out a few days ago, just move your gtk20-l10n-enus1 depend onto the Depends line like "Depends: gtk20-l10n-enus1," Feb 09 00:22:21 can someone try building that package w/ diablo? Feb 09 00:22:30 oh Feb 09 00:22:31 ok Feb 09 00:32:46 * timeless chuckles Feb 09 00:32:48 reassing Feb 09 01:00:16 * timeless cries Feb 09 01:00:20 "Join a multiperson chat" Feb 09 01:00:28 Mind indeed if i do. Feb 09 01:01:05 do it! do it now! Feb 09 01:17:10 * b-man reports a malicious individual that has been attacking a website that he was a member of - the hacker was taking over everyones profile >:( Feb 09 01:18:05 either that or it's just a fad to have the same profile :) Feb 09 01:18:38 no, people are complaining - and freaking out Feb 09 01:20:58 (amagin being on ITT, having someone unknowingly steel your password/username and begin posing as you) Feb 09 01:25:04 timeless, pong. Feb 09 01:40:12 hm Feb 09 01:40:17 damn popcornhour Feb 09 01:46:43 GeneralAntilles: so, i have an updated package for you to try Feb 09 01:46:49 quiz: what do you think will happen when i click on the cluster of photos? http://liqbase.net/liq.20090208_205336.lib.scr.png Feb 09 01:47:30 it will show up a larger version of the gallery? Feb 09 01:47:52 :D then they zoom to fullscreen in just the same way Feb 09 01:47:59 its effing marvelous Feb 09 01:48:42 evening everyone Feb 09 01:48:50 hi Feb 09 01:48:53 I'm having a bit of trouble flashing my n810 Feb 09 01:49:01 hello, hatseflats Feb 09 01:49:27 I follow the instructions on the maemo.org wiki page, but the flasher tool complains that there is no suitable usb device Feb 09 01:49:57 are you running as root? does the usb icon appear on the n810? Feb 09 01:50:20 Checklist; correct flasher, correct image, battery charged, charger unplugged, device switched off, connected over USB, running as root, no icon on the n810, in fact, it's just 'off' Feb 09 01:50:29 no backlight, no led, nothing Feb 09 01:51:00 the USB connection itself should be okay, I just used it to backup my /home Feb 09 01:51:39 ok, so you plug it into usb, start the flasher, hold the 'swap' (aka squares button) and then you need to turn on the tablet Feb 09 01:51:55 nothing happening Feb 09 01:52:12 the tablet doesn't turn on when you press the power switch? Feb 09 01:52:12 this nzbget crap this popcornhour has is... interesting Feb 09 01:52:19 it's kind of shitty Feb 09 01:52:35 johnx: when I hit the power switch it does, when I hit the power switch AND the swap button, nothing happens Feb 09 01:53:16 so it won't turn on if you press the power switch while holding the swap button? quite strange Feb 09 01:53:22 indeed Feb 09 01:53:30 flashing like this worked fine a few months back Feb 09 01:53:37 but this isn't a known issue then? Feb 09 01:53:44 ok, isntead of hitting the power switch, try just plugging in the charger Feb 09 01:53:51 correct, not a known issues AFAIK Feb 09 01:53:51 k Feb 09 01:54:24 plugging in the charger boots it up as usual, testing with swap button in a few secs Feb 09 01:55:21 generally if the flasher is running and it's plugged in to USB, attaching the charger should boot it up in 'flash' mode I believe Feb 09 01:55:42 hmmm Feb 09 01:55:46 nothing there either Feb 09 01:55:52 grmbl... Feb 09 01:56:20 * timeless grumbles Feb 09 01:56:25 title: Join chat Feb 09 01:56:36 this is quite frustrating, n810 works fine on diablo, save for the GPS Feb 09 01:56:36 useless message: Join a multiperson chat Feb 09 01:56:44 Room name: [ |v] Feb 09 01:56:49 which won't get recognized anymore, so I figure, reflash with a new image Feb 09 01:56:52 [ OK ] [ Browse ] [ Cancel ] Feb 09 01:57:12 can anyone think of *any* useful text to stick in the useless message line? Feb 09 01:57:17 * timeless is probably going to blank it Feb 09 01:57:50 johnx: I got lucky... power on + swap worked this time Feb 09 01:57:50 Join a chat room? Feb 09 01:58:11 does it really add any value? Feb 09 01:58:11 hatseflats, ah. good deal :) Feb 09 01:58:26 i mean, what else are you going to do in a chat app in a dialog labeled 'join chat'? Feb 09 01:58:31 join a convent? Feb 09 01:58:56 I recommend keeping a stock of PSAs for occasions such as this Feb 09 01:59:00 timeless, wouldn't that be a surprise. Feb 09 01:59:03 "Remember not to drink and drive." Feb 09 01:59:12 heh Feb 09 01:59:51 timeless, what should I be paying attention to besides the Control Panel? Feb 09 01:59:54 (Which looks good) Feb 09 02:00:03 mostly control panel Feb 09 02:00:07 i've changed browser a bit Feb 09 02:00:11 possibly backup Feb 09 02:00:44 hrm Feb 09 02:00:57 i'm probably going to change 'Compose message' to 'Write mail' Feb 09 02:00:59 objections? Feb 09 02:01:10 * GeneralAntilles is proofing all of the 150 photo from Cuba my friend is about to post on Flickr. Feb 09 02:01:18 timeless, none. Feb 09 02:01:21 ok Feb 09 02:02:22 * timeless frowns Feb 09 02:02:38 A/V Chat isn't really a verb phrase Feb 09 02:02:51 it's tolerable as an app name Feb 09 02:03:02 but in the action section it should probably be Chat (A/V) Feb 09 02:08:54 I've made Ti 86 skin :) http://s44.radikal.ru/i105/0902/30/69378ea64303.png Feb 09 02:09:19 wazd, drop the Almost Real branding? Feb 09 02:09:30 Overall, I think it just takes away from the total effect. Feb 09 02:09:41 not very accurate replica but recognizable) Feb 09 02:09:58 Why drop?) It mimics Texas Instruments :) Feb 09 02:10:06 that's kind of a problem with the people who would consider a Ti skin Feb 09 02:10:14 they are the die-hard nerds Feb 09 02:10:24 you know, the ones that want perfection Feb 09 02:10:31 hatseflats, it's for an emulator. Feb 09 02:10:43 wazd, subjective, but I don't like it. :P Feb 09 02:10:56 acsho Feb 09 02:11:03 hatseflats: well, Ti calculator is too long to make it pixelperfect with 16:10 screen Feb 09 02:11:30 wazd: you can always crop or zoom to fit Feb 09 02:12:09 hatseflats: then it's too small to use comfortly Feb 09 02:12:35 I want a TI-83 or TI-89 Feb 09 02:12:43 I dunno how to use the TI-85/86. :P Feb 09 02:12:53 Ti-83/84 is what I'd want Feb 09 02:14:17 well, that's the questions to RST38h :) Feb 09 02:14:22 maybe I'm going nuts, but in maemo-mapper, the GPS itself is /dev/pgps right? not a bluetooth passthrough or a GPSD host on localhost? Feb 09 02:15:32 depends Feb 09 02:18:06 well, my GPS icon in the taskbar turns on when I use the /dev/pgps device Feb 09 02:18:27 but maemo-mapper just keeps looking for the receiver and eventually bails out claiming it can't find a GPSD server :/ Feb 09 02:19:52 I know the trick used to be selecting "bluetooth" and not specifying an addres Feb 09 02:20:01 ^ Feb 09 02:20:04 not sure if that's still the case but it might be worth a try Feb 09 02:20:07 hatseflats, Bluetooth, no MAC. Feb 09 02:20:13 ok Feb 09 02:20:34 ah Feb 09 02:20:36 that worked Feb 09 02:20:44 a bluetooth passthrough still Feb 09 02:20:46 ...wth Feb 09 02:21:15 eh. I think the maemo-mapper dev never had an N810 Feb 09 02:21:29 You gotta get gpsd started. Feb 09 02:22:45 hmmm Feb 09 02:23:22 right now I'm just downloading some 200 megs of maps, and I'm happy the GPS itself is working again, is there an advantage to using gpsd? Feb 09 02:23:47 Er Feb 09 02:24:24 So what's this "qtmapper" thing that appeared **** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Feb 09 02:59:57 2009