**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Feb 09 02:59:57 2009
Feb 09 03:12:28 <rm_you> johnx: hey so when do you move back again?
Feb 09 03:33:05 * GeneralAntilles emails qgil about the new categories.
Feb 09 03:40:25 <Macer> jesus
Feb 09 03:40:39 <Macer> this popcorn hour box takes like 2 hours to repair par files when you use an nzb
Feb 09 04:30:51 <themactep> I've just published how to connect Maemo Garage Git repos from Eclipse despite the untrusted SSL certificate. Anyone would be interested to add it to Garage docs along with the GIT_SSL_NO_VERIFY solution?
Feb 09 04:39:04 <rm_you> GeneralAntilles might do it, he seems to like documenting, lol
Feb 09 04:39:28 <GeneralAntilles> I aint doin' shit.
Feb 09 04:39:43 <rm_you> lol
Feb 09 04:53:37 <Macer> ok. pch nzb client actually seems to work pretty well
Feb 09 04:53:50 <Macer> before it used to make the video stutter.. probably because of lack of hw demuxing or something.. who knows
Feb 09 05:00:09 <jaem> I saw Sts' screenshots of the Pimlico apps on Jaiku... is the Mer team working on those, or just testing?
Feb 09 05:00:17 <jaem> they needed some work, last time I tried them
Feb 09 05:01:18 <alex_mayorga> hi there
Feb 09 05:02:03 <jaem> hello
Feb 09 05:02:05 <alex_mayorga> I keep getting a no space on /var when trying to install apps
Feb 09 05:02:15 <jaem> is there space on var?
Feb 09 05:02:18 <jaem> what does df tell you?
Feb 09 05:02:32 <jaem> are you familiar with the terminal?
Feb 09 05:02:53 <alex_mayorga> also random fake update packages reminders
Feb 09 05:03:08 <jaem> which packages?
Feb 09 05:03:10 <alex_mayorga> jaem, kinda
Feb 09 05:03:23 <jaem> try running df in the console
Feb 09 05:03:33 <jaem> it will give you the disk usage info for all filesystems
Feb 09 05:04:09 <alex_mayorga> ok, trying, thanks
Feb 09 05:04:55 <jaem> alex: if you want lots of system stats like that easily accessible, the Advanced Battery applet does a good job, as well as being better than Nokia's battery applet
Feb 09 05:06:10 <alex_mayorga> jaem, thanks on the suggestion, problem at hand is / 99% full
Feb 09 05:06:25 <jaem> have you tried cloning your install to the SD card?
Feb 09 05:06:30 <jaem> that will give you much more space
Feb 09 05:06:37 <jaem> the onboard flash is a bit limited for some things
Feb 09 05:07:21 <alex_mayorga> jaem, total maemo n00b, sorry is there a how-to?
Feb 09 05:07:40 <jaem> yep - just looking it up
Feb 09 05:07:55 <jaem> there's probably a command to the bot to get the link, but I'm not familiar with it ;)
Feb 09 05:11:11 <jaem> alex: I forget where the most recent version is... and I have to go offline for a minute
Feb 09 05:11:13 <jaem> I'll be back
Feb 09 05:11:21 <alex_mayorga> I have an 8gb internal card but it doesn't seem to be in use at all
Feb 09 05:11:42 <jaem> well, normally it uses the onboard flash for the main filesystem
Feb 09 05:11:44 <alex_mayorga> !clone
Feb 09 05:11:54 <jaem> your card is just for general storage
Feb 09 05:12:04 <jaem> but you can clone it to the card, and boot from that instead
Feb 09 05:13:23 <tonyyarusso> There must be a howto about cloning to the card somewhere, right?
Feb 09 05:14:56 <alex_mayorga> this http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8631 ?
Feb 09 05:17:36 <Stskeeps> jaem: straight from  ubuntu hildon stuff (pimlico)
Feb 09 05:24:13 <jaem_> alex: did you find what you were looking for?
Feb 09 05:25:44 <alex_mayorga> not really found this http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8631 not sure if that's it
Feb 09 05:26:28 <jaem_> no - the problem is that the original tool to do it isn't supported for the most recent FW version
Feb 09 05:26:31 <jaem_> and I forget what is
Feb 09 05:26:35 <jaem_> I'm a bit out of the loop
Feb 09 05:26:55 <tonyyarusso> alex_mayorga: cool, thanks
Feb 09 05:27:40 <alex_mayorga> tonyyarusso, might not be it
Feb 09 05:27:47 <jaem_> tony: I don't think it is
Feb 09 05:27:51 <tonyyarusso> hmm
Feb 09 05:28:17 <jaem_> here we go: http://internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25714http://internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25714http://internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25714
Feb 09 05:28:25 <jaem_> http://internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25714 *
Feb 09 05:28:31 <jaem_> that's what I wa s looking for
Feb 09 05:28:47 <jaem_> my N810 isn't back from repairs, so I haven't been able to try that method yet
Feb 09 06:05:44 <alex_mayorga> console tools doesn't seem to install on my n800
Feb 09 07:06:10 <Phantom> Is it possible to download maemo repos snapshots via torrents ?
Feb 09 07:08:20 <Meiz_n810> I don't know what i did wrong first time i tried KDE in Mer..
Feb 09 07:08:23 <Meiz_n810> it works now
Feb 09 07:14:16 <Phantom> Well, maybe even usual ftp/http will do :)  Somebody suggest please where I can get archived repo snapshot (official nokia's and/or from maemo.org, for diablo)
Feb 09 07:23:11 <meetpatty> anyone out there able to give me some help getting usb networking running?
Feb 09 07:23:58 <timeless> phantom: it's doubtful anyone does that
Feb 09 07:24:05 <timeless> do you really really need that, andif so why?
Feb 09 07:24:22 <Phantom> I want to rebuild local repo.
Feb 09 07:24:23 <meetpatty> 770 running mer so no wifi currently
Feb 09 07:24:38 <timeless> phantom: i have an ancient mirror
Feb 09 07:24:47 <timeless> but i don't see how that's better than the official repo
Feb 09 07:25:14 <johnx> recursive wget maybe?
Feb 09 07:25:43 <timeless> that's what i did
Feb 09 07:25:53 <timeless> i still don't understand why someone would want a torrent for this purpose
Feb 09 07:25:57 <Phantom> There were problems with apt and maemo repo file/directory structure looks different from debian or ubuntu.
Feb 09 07:25:59 <timeless> it seems amazingly odd
Feb 09 07:26:26 * timeless puzzles
Feb 09 07:26:36 <Phantom> I can't make sure what is the reason and wanted to build local repo and deal with it.
Feb 09 07:26:40 <timeless> so, i'd probably write a web server that acted as an evil proxy
Feb 09 07:26:55 <timeless> and had it remap things as needed
Feb 09 07:27:02 <timeless> but it sounds like you aren't sure what's needed
Feb 09 07:27:10 <lundh> just begun looking at maemo. I have an old ipaq hx4700 that I wanted to do something fun with. Can I install maemo on it somehow?
Feb 09 07:27:13 <timeless> anyway, wget recursive does work
Feb 09 07:27:23 <timeless> lundh: you can try mer
Feb 09 07:27:39 <lundh> mer?
Feb 09 07:27:41 <timeless> you can't try a shipping version of maemo (to the extent that such a thing exists)
Feb 09 07:27:45 <Phantom> I asked for torrents just because it is an easy way to get files.
Feb 09 07:27:46 <timeless> ~mer
Feb 09 07:27:55 <infobot> [mer] http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer
Feb 09 07:28:09 <Phantom> wget -r doesn't get deb files for some reason...
Feb 09 07:28:32 <timeless> http://timeless.justdave.net/repository/
Feb 09 07:28:33 <johnx> hmm...wonder if they tweaker robots.txt...
Feb 09 07:28:35 <lundh> timeless: thanks, I'll read about it :)
Feb 09 07:28:44 <timeless> you can use that url
Feb 09 07:28:53 <timeless> it has a catalogue.tableteer and a repository.maemo
Feb 09 07:28:58 <lundh> yeah, thanks :)
Feb 09 07:28:59 <timeless> keep in mind it's 6-12months old
Feb 09 07:29:30 <timeless> if you want to see the .pl files, lemme know
Feb 09 07:29:38 <Phantom> I think I will try to mirror current official one with httrack.
Feb 09 07:29:58 <lundh> ok, is the resolution going to be a problem. looks like all info I can find is about 800x480 screens, not 640x480
Feb 09 07:30:21 <timeless> actually, i'd be willing to describe the .pl files, but i wouldn't s hare them as is :)
Feb 09 07:30:29 <Phantom> If it goes wrong I come here again :)
Feb 09 07:31:20 <Phantom> btw, how much space does it takes?
Feb 09 07:32:12 <Phantom> I have quotas for incoming traffic :(
Feb 09 07:32:33 <timeless> 206M    extras-devel/pool
Feb 09 07:32:48 <timeless> 2.4G    extras/pool
Feb 09 07:33:06 <timeless> 342M    pool/herring
Feb 09 07:33:12 <timeless> 274M    pool/maemo2.2
Feb 09 07:33:12 <timeless> 569M    pool/maemo3.2
Feb 09 07:33:18 <timeless> 1.9G    pool/maemo4.0
Feb 09 07:33:18 <timeless> 1.7M    pool/maemo4.0-beta
Feb 09 07:33:18 <timeless> 329M    pool/os2008
Feb 09 07:33:33 <timeless> again, thesea re old numbers
Feb 09 07:33:37 <timeless> but that's a general idea
Feb 09 07:33:54 <timeless> so, say 10g?
Feb 09 07:34:36 <Phantom> Hmm... I see... it is big enough to not to fit into monthly quota :-/
Feb 09 07:34:59 <timeless> again, it doesn't sound like something a normal person would do
Feb 09 07:35:15 <timeless> pick an actual problem and we can try to do something
Feb 09 07:38:57 <Phantom> I have the actual problem with apt, but explanation is long enough. If I could send an e-mail that would be great. :)
Feb 09 07:39:08 <timeless> timeless@gmail
Feb 09 07:39:16 <johnx> write up an explanation and pastebin it? :)
Feb 09 07:39:23 <johnx> does it have to do with apt getting 302 moved?
Feb 09 07:39:35 <johnx> or are you trying to use apt on a different device to download for your tablet?
Feb 09 07:40:02 <timeless> fwiw, while it's true apt sucks, most things aren't so bad
Feb 09 07:40:08 * timeless has done all sorts of evil things to apt
Feb 09 07:40:10 <Phantom> No, apt on my tablet breaks after updating from just any repo.
Feb 09 07:40:31 <timeless> have you tried disabling most repos?
Feb 09 07:40:52 <johnx> 'breaks' as in 'borken dependencies' or 'breaks' as in 'no longer downloads'
Feb 09 07:41:55 <Phantom> Yes, i discussed that problem at special forum, but it is not in english. So I would have to translate that thread anyway...
Feb 09 07:42:06 <johnx> what language?
Feb 09 07:42:12 <johnx> Russian?
Feb 09 07:42:16 <Phantom> :)
Feb 09 07:42:40 <johnx> yeah, can't help with that :)
Feb 09 07:43:03 <timeless> a wiki page might make more sense than a private email
Feb 09 07:43:06 <johnx> if you drop me a link I might get a clue from the command line output though
Feb 09 07:43:09 * timeless isn't really soliciting email
Feb 09 07:43:47 * timeless chuckles
Feb 09 07:43:59 <timeless> so, my local repo has *one* change from the 0.1.1 release
Feb 09 07:44:04 <Phantom> http://n8xx.com/subject-2596-n810-diablo-problemy-menedzherom-paketov.html
Feb 09 07:44:27 <Phantom> look for attachments
Feb 09 07:45:49 <johnx> funny to see what parts of the messages are localized and which aren't
Feb 09 07:46:18 <Phantom> In short, it looks like apt can't process what it have downloaded.
Feb 09 07:46:50 <johnx> aaah...iiiinteresting
Feb 09 07:47:06 <gomiam> erm... hello. I have had this weird problem with the browser in Diablo: after keeping it running for a few days, its memory consumption goes way up.
Feb 09 07:47:33 <timeless> gomiam: your device lasts a couple of days
Feb 09 07:47:41 <timeless> and you're annoyed that the browser uses a lot of memory?
Feb 09 07:47:49 <timeless> how hard is it for you to close the browser?
Feb 09 07:48:42 <gomiam> timeless: hard enough. I usually download stories to read, and I mostly keep whatever story I'm reading in a browser window
Feb 09 07:49:01 <johnx> gomiam, html files? have you tried them with fbreader?
Feb 09 07:49:17 <timeless> gomiam: and you can't use bookmarks?
Feb 09 07:49:28 <johnx> timeless, but then he loses his place
Feb 09 07:49:28 * timeless tries not to sound too incredulous
Feb 09 07:49:41 <johnx> and it does sound like  a memory leak ...
Feb 09 07:49:44 <gomiam> johnx: yup, HTML files downloaded from websites to mmc
Feb 09 07:50:01 <timeless> johnx: in code that's 2 years old
Feb 09 07:50:01 <johnx> I can definitely recommend fbreader for files like that
Feb 09 07:50:02 <timeless> or dead
Feb 09 07:50:08 <gomiam> erm...
Feb 09 07:50:10 <gomiam> hold on
Feb 09 07:50:11 <timeless> i can't justify even listening to him
Feb 09 07:50:23 <gomiam> perhaps I'm using a newer version and I didn't even know it
Feb 09 07:50:25 <gomiam> just a second
Feb 09 07:50:45 <timeless> personally, i'd just copy a line of text as part of my bookmark title
Feb 09 07:50:52 <timeless> and when i load the bookmark, i'd 'find' that line
Feb 09 07:50:56 <timeless> and continue reading
Feb 09 07:50:59 <hahlo> is webkit engine any better?
Feb 09 07:50:59 <johnx> Phantom, my only idea is that something is wrong with the Translation-ru file and not many people have run into this problem yet. Could you maybe try switching your locale and seeing if the problem continues
Feb 09 07:51:18 <gomiam> what version would 4.2008.23-14 be?
Feb 09 07:51:43 <johnx> hahlo, it's 'better' in that it's in development, but my experience with Tear is that it still has memory leaks (or just high memory usage)
Feb 09 07:51:44 <gomiam> ok, that would be Diablo
Feb 09 07:51:45 <timeless> johnx: so his problem was catalogue.tableteer, not repostitory.maemo, right?
Feb 09 07:52:14 <Phantom> I tried every repo separately. No go.
Feb 09 07:52:25 <timeless> 23-14 doesn't sound like it's the latest...
Feb 09 07:52:39 <gomiam> unless the control panel is acting up. By the way, timeless, how can Diablo be "two year old code"? Just wondering...
Feb 09 07:52:45 <johnx> timeless, ok. I'm looking at the post. he gets an error pulling Translation-ru from tableteer. I don't understand your point though...
Feb 09 07:53:19 <timeless> gomiam: we imported the browser code at a certain point
Feb 09 07:53:29 <timeless> and generally didn't pull in the latest code past that point
Feb 09 07:53:42 <timeless> that point isn't a really recent point in time now
Feb 09 07:53:50 * timeless isn't sure how long diablo has been available
Feb 09 07:54:00 * timeless is really bad w/ math
Feb 09 07:54:05 <Phantom> So... idea #1 is to try to change locale before running apt. Is that right?
Feb 09 07:54:13 <gomiam> timeless: according to my control panel, this version I have is from 2008
Feb 09 07:54:16 <timeless> phantom: it'd help the readers here :)
Feb 09 07:54:19 <johnx> Phantom, yes. that's my only idea
Feb 09 07:54:39 <timeless> gomiam: what's your native language?
Feb 09 07:54:47 <gomiam> timeless: spanish :)
Feb 09 07:54:58 <timeless> bueno
Feb 09 07:55:08 <gomiam> :)
Feb 09 07:56:05 <timeless> imagina ud. un hobre que quiere translatar 'en.wikipedia.org'
Feb 09 07:56:23 <Phantom> I will try this evening or tomorrow. There is no wireless network by my side right now.
Feb 09 07:56:25 <gomiam> timeless: yes, I can. I have done part of that for the Spanish Wikipedia
Feb 09 07:56:27 <timeless> eso hombre <download> en.wikipedia.org
Feb 09 07:56:48 <timeless> despues eso hombre entrarse un <cave>
Feb 09 07:57:06 <timeless> y. translata muchas paginas del <en.wikipedia.org>
Feb 09 07:57:19 * timeless pauses to look up a word
Feb 09 07:57:27 <gomiam> timeless: ok, I see you are really helpful
Feb 09 07:57:41 * Stskeeps ponders idly how many languages timeless knows
Feb 09 07:57:52 <gomiam> did I mangle english so bad or was it just that one sentence?
Feb 09 07:57:53 <timeless> al mismo tiempo
Feb 09 07:58:07 <gomiam> Stskeeps: I would guess one... badly
Feb 09 07:58:26 <timeless> muchas hombres cambian muchas muchas paginas del en.wikipedia.org
Feb 09 07:58:38 <timeless> sts: ignoring computer languages
Feb 09 07:58:58 <timeless> i studied spanish for 4 years, ASL for a year, hebrew for ~3 years
Feb 09 07:59:11 <timeless> some russian, some finnish, and i've picked up pieces of french/italian
Feb 09 07:59:15 <jaem> woah
Feb 09 07:59:20 <jaem> that's rather impressive
Feb 09 07:59:22 <timeless> and i can bug check a dozen languages
Feb 09 07:59:27 <jaem> I can read some French, and that's all
Feb 09 07:59:28 <jaem> lol
Feb 09 07:59:28 <timeless> oh, Soy un americano
Feb 09 07:59:36 <gomiam> timeless: lamento decirte que tu español aún necesita pulirse un poco :)
Feb 09 07:59:56 <timeless> gomaim: sorry, ... contiuarse...
Feb 09 08:00:19 <Stskeeps> my primary language is danish (+ swedish/norwegian understanding), secondary english (taught) and then i have been taught german and french :P
Feb 09 08:00:24 <Stskeeps> .. and gf trying to teach me polish atm
Feb 09 08:00:40 <timeless> el primer hombre tiene un viejo copia del <en.wikipedia.org>
Feb 09 08:00:51 <johnx> I know English and bad English :D
Feb 09 08:01:19 <gomiam> timeless: are you using Google's translator, perhaps?
Feb 09 08:01:27 <timeless> durante esta vez,
Feb 09 08:01:30 <timeless> gomiam: not in general
Feb 09 08:01:37 <timeless> my spanish is 10 years rusty
Feb 09 08:01:38 <gomiam> ah, ok
Feb 09 08:01:59 <timeless> there's no point in me using google translator
Feb 09 08:02:05 <timeless> i could write this in English and make you do that
Feb 09 08:02:19 <timeless> the point is to express a problem in my aged spanish
Feb 09 08:02:36 <timeless> i am looking up some words, because my spanish dictionar is ~5,000 miles away
Feb 09 08:02:43 * BugBlue talks nederlands, english, deutsch, francais, afrikaans, friesk, polski (a bit), svenska (a bit)
Feb 09 08:02:43 <timeless> or 10 years, whichever
Feb 09 08:02:48 <timeless> s/talks/speaks/
Feb 09 08:03:11 <timeless> unless you're saying what you babble isn't worth considering 'speach'
Feb 09 08:03:17 <BugBlue> no speaking is meaning that you know what you say :P
Feb 09 08:03:26 <timeless> err speech
Feb 09 08:03:27 * timeless isghs
Feb 09 08:03:30 * timeless ,.,m
Feb 09 08:03:31 <BugBlue> that's very rare for me :P
Feb 09 08:03:32 <Stskeeps> multifail
Feb 09 08:03:40 * timeless looks for a peach
Feb 09 08:03:52 <gomiam> timeless: I understand that. I can't see the relation with Wikipedia, though. Anyway, I'll shut the browser down from time to time.
Feb 09 08:03:55 <johnx> Stskeeps, in the unreal tournament announcer voice?
Feb 09 08:04:00 * timeless pleads hunger
Feb 09 08:04:08 <Stskeeps> johnx: i actually never played UT
Feb 09 08:04:09 <timeless> gomiam: so...
Feb 09 08:04:17 <timeless> the idea is that a guy downloads a copy of something 'big'
Feb 09 08:04:23 <timeless> and spends a lot of time 'translating' it
Feb 09 08:04:35 <timeless> while he's translating his *downloaded* copy
Feb 09 08:04:39 <timeless> the real version changes
Feb 09 08:04:47 <timeless> if he downloaded it a year ago
Feb 09 08:04:52 <timeless> and has been translating that copy for a year
Feb 09 08:05:03 <timeless> the real thing has been changing for that entire year
Feb 09 08:05:07 <johnx> gomiam, the rendering engine used in the N810's browser was branched from firefox a long time ago
Feb 09 08:05:27 <timeless> which means even though he could deliver his translated version 'today'
Feb 09 08:05:33 <timeless> and claim it's a 'new' translation
Feb 09 08:05:40 <timeless> it's in fact a new translation of something very old
Feb 09 08:05:47 <gomiam> johnx: then it would had been much simpler to tell me, "sorry, it's an old version and it's not supported any more". I would keep dealing with it and that would be it.
Feb 09 08:05:57 <timeless> i can't say that
Feb 09 08:06:00 <timeless> well
Feb 09 08:06:11 <timeless> for one, i did say that it didn't look like you had the latest version of diablo
Feb 09 08:06:14 <timeless> i could be wrong
Feb 09 08:06:16 * timeless is bad w/ versions
Feb 09 08:06:24 <timeless> but diablo is the latest supported product
Feb 09 08:06:28 <timeless> there's nothing released that's newer
Feb 09 08:06:53 <timeless> what is the latest diablo version? :)
Feb 09 08:06:59 <johnx> 43-x
Feb 09 08:07:01 <Stskeeps> http://xkcd.com/541/ <- this is a -real- problem with language on internet.
Feb 09 08:07:17 <timeless> gomiam: so... first, you should switch to 43-x
Feb 09 08:07:28 <timeless> it's unfair to everyone else here to use an old version of diablo
Feb 09 08:07:39 <timeless> but keep in mind, that it probably won't fix any specific problem
Feb 09 08:07:42 <timeless> it's not a magic pill
Feb 09 08:07:55 <timeless> it's just that.... memory leaks are hopefully fixed already
Feb 09 08:08:00 <doc|home> Stskeeps: pffft, definitely the latter. No question.
Feb 09 08:08:01 <johnx> heh
Feb 09 08:08:03 <timeless> or might be in code we won't use in the next version
Feb 09 08:08:21 <gomiam> timeless: that's interesting. I'm supposed to have 23-4 but no updates show up.
Feb 09 08:08:34 <johnx> Stskeeps, I tend to use a smiley, then a space, then an end-parens
Feb 09 08:08:59 <timeless> gomiam: i don't remember which version offered over the air updates
Feb 09 08:09:05 <timeless> some required a reflash
Feb 09 08:09:10 <timeless> anyone other than me would know :)
Feb 09 08:09:16 <johnx> timeless, from the first diablo release updates were by SSU
Feb 09 08:09:17 <gomiam> and, for example, I have osso-dsp-modules-rx44 installed already :)
Feb 09 08:09:33 <timeless> the rx44 is a hardware version
Feb 09 08:09:38 * gomiam checks browser version...
Feb 09 08:09:40 <timeless> we don't update hardware over the air
Feb 09 08:09:41 <Stskeeps> gomiam: chinook latter had that
Feb 09 08:09:42 <Stskeeps> i think
Feb 09 08:09:43 <timeless> too heavy for the pigeons
Feb 09 08:09:48 <Stskeeps> (rx-44 is n810)
Feb 09 08:09:57 <jaem> timeless: is SSU using RFC 1149, then?
Feb 09 08:10:11 <timeless> jaem: we have to support it!
Feb 09 08:10:22 <jaem> with or without QoS?
Feb 09 08:10:36 * timeless presumes gomiam missed that reference
Feb 09 08:10:48 <timeless> jaem: definitely w/o
Feb 09 08:11:07 <gomiam> timeless: the IP over Avian Carrier RFC? No, I didn't miss it ;)
Feb 09 08:11:11 <Stskeeps> heh... danish bike rider got run over by a truck, and before he died he asked for a cola
Feb 09 08:11:15 <Stskeeps> that's hardcore
Feb 09 08:11:31 <jaem> I wondered why MIT's tech model railroad club never (to my knowledge) did IP over Model Train
Feb 09 08:11:34 <gomiam> anyway, I don't have African swallows around to carry it, so it's a moot point.
Feb 09 08:11:57 <timeless> well, given our source is Finland, i'd assume they were European, not African
Feb 09 08:12:16 <gomiam> timeless: but European Swallowds are smaller :P
Feb 09 08:12:20 <timeless> Auuuuuuuugh!
Feb 09 08:12:27 <Mousey> laden or unladen?
Feb 09 08:12:28 <gomiam> s/Swallowds/Swallows/
Feb 09 08:12:28 <infobot> gomiam meant: timeless: but European Swallows are smaller :P
Feb 09 08:12:44 <gomiam> Mousey: in any case, I think.
Feb 09 08:12:47 <timeless> gomiam: as i said, too heavy
Feb 09 08:13:18 <gomiam> timeless: perhaps if you put four of them to carry it together...
Feb 09 08:13:20 <gomiam> :D
Feb 09 08:13:33 <timeless> anyway, sorry, sometimes it's easier to try switching explanations out of a realm when it seems like the natural domain isn't well understood
Feb 09 08:13:34 <jaem> I wonder if my tracking number would work if they'd sent my N810 back by pidgeon, instead of UPS
Feb 09 08:13:43 <sp3000> perhaps not if you fracment the packet enough
Feb 09 08:13:47 <sp3000> fragment even
Feb 09 08:13:57 <timeless> some assembly required?
Feb 09 08:14:06 <johnx> heh
Feb 09 08:14:10 <sp3000> ikea tablets?
Feb 09 08:14:12 <jaem> I hope not
Feb 09 08:14:13 <johnx> I want my GPS update for my N800
Feb 09 08:14:24 <gomiam> would some kind soul please tell me what's the latest version for the Diablo browser?
Feb 09 08:14:59 <johnx> gomiam, whatever comes with the 43-7 SSU. do you need just the browser version?
Feb 09 08:15:01 <timeless> gomiam: everything we've released of late has been as part of a system wide package
Feb 09 08:15:13 <timeless> johnx: the browser version is often not bumped properly
Feb 09 08:15:17 <timeless> so it's pointless :)
Feb 09 08:15:33 <timeless> its calculation is also mostly "strange"
Feb 09 08:15:44 <timeless> since it thinks that the date it was compiled is somehow relevant
Feb 09 08:16:05 <jaem> isn't it?
Feb 09 08:16:08 <jaem> it's birthday?
Feb 09 08:16:10 <timeless> check out code in 2000 and build it in 2010 and it'll give a different number :)
Feb 09 08:16:11 <gomiam> johnx: since I don't know whether I can rely on the information shown at "About this product", I wanted so indirect method of knowing if I'm up to date.
Feb 09 08:16:16 <timeless> s/it's/its/
Feb 09 08:16:22 <gomiam> s/so /some /
Feb 09 08:16:22 <infobot> gomiam meant: johnx: since I don't know whether I can rely on the information shown at "About this product", I wanted some indirect method of knowing if I'm up to date.
Feb 09 08:16:38 <timeless> cat /etc/osso_software_version
Feb 09 08:16:39 <johnx> you should be able to trust that info
Feb 09 08:16:44 <gomiam> oh, forgot that.
Feb 09 08:16:46 <timeless> but about should be trustworthy
Feb 09 08:16:58 <timeless> minus any strange spelling errors that may be present
Feb 09 08:17:07 <timeless> or inconsistencies between (c) and &copy;
Feb 09 08:17:21 <timeless> someone actually complained about that this weekend!
Feb 09 08:18:20 <jaem> night
Feb 09 08:18:33 <gomiam> now this is funny... I have no /etc/osso_software_version
Feb 09 08:18:59 <timeless> osso_software_release ?
Feb 09 08:19:03 * timeless is typing from memory
Feb 09 08:19:09 <gomiam> neither
Feb 09 08:19:25 <gomiam> I'm going to "find /etc -name \*osso\*" just in case :)
Feb 09 08:20:18 <timeless> my n800 has an /etc/osso_software_version
Feb 09 08:20:25 <timeless> what did you do to your poor n800?
Feb 09 08:20:37 <gomiam> I think I did nothing unusual to it
Feb 09 08:20:48 <gomiam> it might have had some update problems, though.
Feb 09 08:20:53 * gomiam checks more...
Feb 09 08:21:37 <johnx> yeah... update problems around 23-whatever sound somewhat familiar
Feb 09 08:22:22 <gomiam> ok, it seems I don't have osso-software-version installed. Connecting to install osso-software-version-rx34 ...
Feb 09 08:22:35 <timeless> do you have an n800 or n810?
Feb 09 08:22:41 <gomiam> 800
Feb 09 08:22:47 <timeless> righ
Feb 09 08:22:59 <timeless> that's because those pigeons never delivered the rx44 hardware update
Feb 09 08:23:10 <timeless> over the air updates are limited to softwqare
Feb 09 08:23:13 <timeless> s/q//
Feb 09 08:23:13 <infobot> timeless meant: over the air updates are limited to software
Feb 09 08:23:44 <timeless> sp3000: so...
Feb 09 08:23:46 <Stskeeps> tablet subscriptions..mmm
Feb 09 08:23:51 <timeless> i need a script which um....
Feb 09 08:24:05 <timeless> given output from a diff decides to munge foo/debian/changelog
Feb 09 08:24:35 <timeless> sts: sounds like a good revenue model
Feb 09 08:24:50 <johnx> Stskeeps, sign up here. just $50 / week directly to me gets you a new tablet whenever one is released :>
Feb 09 08:24:56 <Stskeeps> hehe
Feb 09 08:25:07 <Stskeeps> i'm sure someone would catch :P
Feb 09 08:25:26 <gomiam> sorry, pulled the wrong cable O:-)
Feb 09 08:25:40 <timeless> johnx: hey, have you been to teh vertu store?
Feb 09 08:25:51 <johnx> where is it?
Feb 09 08:26:18 * johnx googles
Feb 09 08:26:22 <Stskeeps> johnx: oh, did you see Bundyo in some strange way managed to forward port 770's cx3110x to a modern kernel?
Feb 09 08:26:29 <timeless> odd
Feb 09 08:26:32 <johnx> !!
Feb 09 08:26:33 <timeless> we announced a vertu.jp
Feb 09 08:26:34 <johnx> holy craps
Feb 09 08:26:43 <johnx> in Ginza, huh
Feb 09 08:26:45 <timeless> http://www.vertu.com/jp/
Feb 09 08:26:57 <johnx> opens on feb 19th?
Feb 09 08:27:13 <johnx> yes, I exist in your future...but not actually that far ahead contrary to popular beliefe
Feb 09 08:27:37 <timeless> it's at the corner of %#!@$ and $#%#
Feb 09 08:27:43 <johnx> heh
Feb 09 08:27:47 <johnx> in Ginza, Tokyo
Feb 09 08:27:56 <gomiam> ok, I see. osso-software-version-rx34 won't install because it depends on some packages to be installed with old versions
Feb 09 08:27:59 <timeless> i'd give a link, but the page is 100% flash
Feb 09 08:28:07 <johnx> yeah
Feb 09 08:28:21 <johnx> and seems to be form over function
Feb 09 08:28:27 <johnx> how uniquely suitable :>
Feb 09 08:28:27 <timeless> thankfully 'store' is in English until you hover over it
Feb 09 08:28:33 <gomiam> so I guess I'll have to download them and install them by hand.
Feb 09 08:28:43 <timeless> johnx: you can buy a phone for 100,000 EUR iirc
Feb 09 08:28:46 <timeless> or was it USD
Feb 09 08:29:14 <johnx> gomiam, ah. that would explain it. I would let it downgrade if I were you
Feb 09 08:29:17 <timeless> http://www.helsinkitimes.fi/htimes/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=5179:nokia-to-launch-luxury-brand-vertu-mvno-in-japan&catid=15:finland-in-the-world-press&Itemid=161
Feb 09 08:29:37 <gomiam> johnx: yup. And I just found how to tell apt-get to install a specific version, too.
Feb 09 08:29:37 <johnx> you probably got something from another repo that had a higher version than Nokia uses
Feb 09 08:29:39 <timeless> oh brother
Feb 09 08:29:44 <timeless> the article was stolen from wpost.com
Feb 09 08:30:20 <timeless> www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/01/27/AR2009012700823.html
Feb 09 08:30:24 <timeless> should be the original article
Feb 09 08:30:44 <johnx> wow...that website basically sums up the the whole vertu experience
Feb 09 08:31:08 <timeless> helsinki times or the flash one?
Feb 09 08:31:18 <johnx> the vertu flash website
Feb 09 08:31:26 <timeless> anyway, if you can visit the store for opening day
Feb 09 08:31:31 <timeless> it sounds like it could be amusing
Feb 09 08:31:42 <timeless> if it were a us store, they'd give something away
Feb 09 08:31:52 <timeless> heck, even here in HEL i've been to openings w/ giveaways
Feb 09 08:31:54 <Stskeeps> N810W surplus? :P
Feb 09 08:31:58 <johnx> there will be lines. around the block
Feb 09 08:32:07 <timeless> johnx: send pictures
Feb 09 08:32:20 <johnx> there was an hour plus line at crispy creme in kawasaki
Feb 09 08:32:32 <johnx> on 'gurando open' day
Feb 09 08:34:35 <wazd> hello everybody)
Feb 09 08:34:38 <gomiam> ok, running a big bunch of upgrades that were hanging on osso...rx34
Feb 09 08:34:39 <johnx> hi
Feb 09 08:35:19 <timeless> http://jimmynjapan.blogspot.com/2008/11/krispy-kreme-in-kawasaki.html
Feb 09 08:35:28 <timeless> your spelling of krispy kreme stumped google
Feb 09 08:35:41 <johnx> heh
Feb 09 08:35:51 <johnx> whatever. it's a US thing (or *was* a US thing)
Feb 09 08:35:54 <Stskeeps> morning wazd
Feb 09 08:39:28 <johnx> so let's see: Who thinks I should visit the Vertu store on opening day just to take pictures of the insane lines that will be there
Feb 09 08:39:58 <timeless> sp3000?
Feb 09 08:40:03 <timeless> i think something ate my homework
Feb 09 08:40:22 <gomiam> timeless: "something" not being your dog, I guess :)
Feb 09 08:40:29 <timeless> i don't have a dog
Feb 09 08:40:34 <timeless> i do have a mer and an rsync
Feb 09 08:40:52 <Stskeeps> mer steals your wife, not your homework
Feb 09 08:40:53 <Stskeeps> :P
Feb 09 08:40:59 <timeless> i don't have one of those either
Feb 09 08:41:11 <timeless> or did you mean 'life'?
Feb 09 08:41:15 <Stskeeps> hehe
Feb 09 08:41:18 <Stskeeps> life may qualify
Feb 09 08:41:21 <timeless> right
Feb 09 08:41:22 <timeless> so um
Feb 09 08:41:24 <gomiam> timeless: no dog? Then... cat? parrot? pet corruption dragon of Tzeench? ;)
Feb 09 08:41:24 <johnx> same idea, different form factor
Feb 09 08:41:34 <Stskeeps> tablets and wives?
Feb 09 08:41:52 <timeless> gomiam: that last one sounds interesting
Feb 09 08:42:19 <johnx> heh...a little restaurant that calls itself vertu seems to occupy the top of the search results around Ginza. might be hard for people to find this "Vertu phone" store :>
Feb 09 08:43:14 <timeless> heh
Feb 09 08:43:30 <gomiam> timeless: sorry, I had to hook up on a neighbour's connection on Saturday night to let some friends watch the new trailer for some Warhammer Fantasy computer game, and I think that was the name of the big ugly thing that showed up at the end :)
Feb 09 08:43:43 <timeless> ah
Feb 09 08:43:52 * timeless returns to not understanding where the homework went
Feb 09 08:43:56 <johnx> I have the strangest feeling that the planning for this "Vertu phone" store was handled by Europeans ...
Feb 09 08:44:09 <timeless> timeless@swift:~/translate% diff -u .zfs/snapshot/release-0.1.1 .|grep -v ^Common|wc -l
Feb 09 08:44:09 <timeless>        0
Feb 09 08:44:18 <Stskeeps> johnx: there's no obligatory hello kitty posters?
Feb 09 08:44:23 <timeless> johnx: what gave you that idea?
Feb 09 08:44:24 <timeless> :)
Feb 09 08:44:47 <timeless> oh no!
Feb 09 08:44:49 * timeless cries
Feb 09 08:44:50 <johnx> lack of a usable map, no place in the search results, *a website that can't be used on a mobile phone*
Feb 09 08:45:02 <timeless> johnx: hrm
Feb 09 08:45:13 <timeless> www.skyfire.com
Feb 09 08:45:20 <timeless> what happens if you load that in your mobile?
Feb 09 08:45:46 <johnx> that's for winmo and S60 right?
Feb 09 08:45:48 <Stskeeps> johnx: exclusive phones for those who own expensive laptops? :P
Feb 09 08:45:57 <timeless> well, i've only used it on s60
Feb 09 08:46:04 <timeless> i was wondering if it supported whatever you had
Feb 09 08:46:21 <gomiam> Stskeeps: Hello Kitty? http://www.exlibrismortis.org/ExLibrisnewSistersArmy.html (yeah, yeah, I've been around Warhammer players too much time)
Feb 09 08:46:35 <johnx> keep in mind: opera mini is the high end of mobile browsers here
Feb 09 08:46:44 <johnx> I'll try it on my phone's included browser first
Feb 09 08:46:47 <timeless> sts; no, exclusive phones for people w/ personal assistants and chauffeurs
Feb 09 08:46:51 <Stskeeps> i would love opera mini on tablets.
Feb 09 08:48:14 <Stskeeps> ok, am i odd for wondering where the heck the maemo5 beagleboard on fosdem is on p.m.o and iTT?
Feb 09 08:48:18 <Stskeeps> zip null mentioned :P
Feb 09 08:48:23 <johnx> unknown phone model
Feb 09 08:48:39 <Myrtti> graah.
Feb 09 08:48:46 <Stskeeps> Myrtti: your leg(?) better?
Feb 09 08:49:04 <Myrtti> marginally
Feb 09 08:49:07 <timeless> sts: the nokian who presented probably isn't on pmo
Feb 09 08:49:11 <timeless> we could bug him
Feb 09 08:49:23 <Stskeeps> timeless: well normally there's a small bunch of fanboys ;)
Feb 09 08:49:53 <timeless> fanboys don't go to real tech conferences like fosdem :)
Feb 09 08:50:00 <Stskeeps> true
Feb 09 08:50:08 <Stskeeps> what are gnubies then? ;)
Feb 09 08:50:21 <johnx> back in ~30 minutes
Feb 09 08:50:26 <Stskeeps> hf
Feb 09 08:51:25 * timeless is amused by a conversation among localizers
Feb 09 08:51:51 <Stskeeps> timeless: 'timeless is more effective than 10 of us'?
Feb 09 08:52:04 <timeless> wrong context, this is  hg
Feb 09 08:52:17 <timeless> translate "hook" => es
Feb 09 08:52:26 <timeless> "script de enganche"
Feb 09 08:52:34 <timeless> > Ironically, "script" is another imported term without translation
Feb 09 08:52:41 <timeless> > (the correct one would be "guisn de enganche").
Feb 09 08:53:11 <timeless> (note: my irc client eats accents, that should be gui['o]n)
Feb 09 08:53:55 <timeless> btw, sts?
Feb 09 08:53:57 <timeless> http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer
Feb 09 08:54:02 <timeless> black text on dark blue background...
Feb 09 08:54:10 <timeless> isn't what one would typically call 'readable'
Feb 09 08:55:19 <gomiam> interesting, now apt-dist-upgrade wants me to remove busybox... and complains about it being dangerous.
Feb 09 08:55:28 <timeless> um
Feb 09 08:55:33 <timeless> "don't do that"
Feb 09 08:55:39 <timeless> you have the wrong repos enabled
Feb 09 08:55:42 <timeless> fix it
Feb 09 08:55:52 <gomiam> timeless: I won't :) Last time I did I had to reflash XD
Feb 09 08:55:59 <timeless> iirc you have sdk
Feb 09 08:57:01 <gomiam> I guess it's time to shut down all the non-basic repos and see if it still complains
Feb 09 09:02:09 <StsN801> timeless, yeah its a bit odd
Feb 09 09:02:29 * tonyyarusso waves at the Myrtti here too
Feb 09 09:03:29 * StsN801 tries to figure out how he managed to get out of bed and on to the bus
Feb 09 09:04:26 <gomiam> StsN801: it's a conspiracy, I tell you.
Feb 09 09:04:29 <sp3000> if you find out, let me know
Feb 09 09:04:47 <timeless> sp3000: error, cafeine not found
Feb 09 09:04:55 * timeless tried to do diff instead of diff -r
Feb 09 09:06:34 <StsN801> why does maemo gtk do funny things with the enter key btw? is it cos it would launch finger kbd normally?
Feb 09 09:06:42 <timeless> yes
Feb 09 09:07:12 <StsN801> lovely
Feb 09 09:07:33 <StsN801> so enter on rx44 is mapped to what
Feb 09 09:07:35 <StsN801> ?
Feb 09 09:07:36 <timeless> i think the middle button in the square for up/right/down/left
Feb 09 09:07:44 <timeless> triggers one of enter/return
Feb 09 09:07:59 <timeless> and the keyboard thing on rx44 triggers the one that isn't enter/return
Feb 09 09:08:19 <StsN801> heh
Feb 09 09:08:34 <timeless> i hope you don't expect me to be able to keep them straight! :)
Feb 09 09:08:45 <mgedmin> one is Return, one is KP_Return, iirc
Feb 09 09:08:51 <gomiam> interesting: if I add repository.maemo.org (diablo), apt-get dist-upgrade will try to uninstall osso-software-version-rx34
Feb 09 09:09:21 <timeless> only diablo?
Feb 09 09:09:24 <gomiam> (as it depends on packages for which there seems to be a newer version)
Feb 09 09:09:25 <timeless> no other repos?
Feb 09 09:09:40 <StsN801> mgedmin, ta
Feb 09 09:10:03 <gomiam> timeless: hold on while I check current sources.list
Feb 09 09:10:03 <RST38h> mgedmin: KP_Enter
Feb 09 09:10:31 <StsN801> bergs the next q.. wtf does usb keyboard people use?
Feb 09 09:10:39 <StsN801> begs
Feb 09 09:10:57 <RST38h> mgedmin: also known as the second most annoying keyboard feature after the one where Fn keys were mapped to hardware buttons
Feb 09 09:11:28 <timeless> rst38h: personally i consider the Fn key thing less annoying
Feb 09 09:11:41 <timeless> that i have to use ctrl-j in mer in vmware
Feb 09 09:11:46 <timeless> is really really annoying
Feb 09 09:12:33 <timeless> sp3000: right...
Feb 09 09:12:37 <timeless> so i need that version bumping script
Feb 09 09:12:59 <StsN801> dch?
Feb 09 09:13:04 <timeless> or should i just bump all the packages
Feb 09 09:13:08 <timeless> since i've changed 30/64
Feb 09 09:13:10 <gomiam> timeless: I currently have catalogue.tableteer.nokia.com/{certified,non-certified,updates/diablo-2} and repository.maemo.org/extras, all on diablo. If I remove the extras repo, apt-get dist-upgrade finds nothing to upgrade. When I add extras it will try to bump osso-software-version-rx34 to upgrade libdb4.2
Feb 09 09:13:36 <timeless> stsn801: my host isn't debian based
Feb 09 09:13:45 <timeless> and i'm not going to run dch 30 times
Feb 09 09:14:02 <gomiam> where I typed "bump", I meant "remove"
Feb 09 09:14:54 <StsN801> timeless, ah, it has non-interactive too so i script once in a while
Feb 09 09:20:19 <StsN801> wb
Feb 09 09:20:43 <johnx> thanks. great to be here
Feb 09 09:22:32 <gomiam> johnx: will you be here all week? ;)
Feb 09 09:22:42 <johnx> yup
Feb 09 09:22:47 <johnx> remember to tip your waitress
Feb 09 09:23:22 <gomiam> last time I tipped her, she fell down with a lot of glasses. I won't try that again
Feb 09 09:24:11 <gomiam> getting hit by a tray hurts.
Feb 09 09:24:17 <gomiam> s/by/with/
Feb 09 09:24:18 <infobot> gomiam meant: getting hit with a tray hurts.
Feb 09 09:25:55 <johnx> either one is fine :)
Feb 09 09:26:00 <RST38h> moo johnx
Feb 09 09:26:06 <johnx> m00f
Feb 09 09:28:51 <gomiam> damn it. I lost my keyboard configurations so I can't type > again. Oh well, time to change it again...
Feb 09 09:30:16 <Jaffa> Morning, all
Feb 09 09:30:27 <gomiam> where were the keymaps stored? /usr/share/something?
Feb 09 09:30:43 <mgedmin> X11 something
Feb 09 09:30:54 <mgedmin> either /usr/lib, or /usr/share
Feb 09 09:30:57 <mgedmin> might be X11R6
Feb 09 09:31:00 <mgedmin> and xkb inside that
Feb 09 09:31:31 <wazd> RST38h: moo, Ti86 is ready
Feb 09 09:31:35 <mgedmin> /usr/share/X11/xkb/
Feb 09 09:31:57 <gomiam> thanks
Feb 09 09:42:03 <Stskeeps> my office, woo. :P
Feb 09 09:43:27 <wazd> RST38h: http://i003.radikal.ru/0902/8d/b1d3edc1c1ac.png
Feb 09 09:47:36 <RST38h> wazd: Oh yesss
Feb 09 09:47:57 <RST38h> wazd: it had TABLE instead of STAT though
Feb 09 09:49:30 <wazd> RST38h:ah, missed it
Feb 09 09:50:22 <RST38h> wazd: also the 2nd key was bright yellow, I think
Feb 09 09:50:23 <wazd> RST38h: anything else?
Feb 09 09:51:25 <RST38h> oh, ti85 also had it bright yellow
Feb 09 09:52:03 <RST38h> wazd: arrow keys were smaller, with more space between them: http://www.geocities.com/athens/thebes/5118/scicalc/fig/ti86.jpg
Feb 09 09:52:30 <wazd> RST38h: yes, but they will be difficult so use in that layout :(
Feb 09 09:52:40 <wazd> RST38h: so I had to make them larger
Feb 09 09:52:47 <RST38h> oh
Feb 09 09:53:56 <RST38h> I think the only very minor thing I can still see there is that the capital "PI" is used, the one usually used for a product of a sequence
Feb 09 09:53:59 <wazd> RST38h: well, I'll try to make them smaller
Feb 09 09:54:29 <RST38h> nah, I guess if it is difficult to make them smaller retaining the same layout then there is no reason to try
Feb 09 09:54:48 <RST38h> I would stil fix PI on both ti85 and ti86 layouts though
Feb 09 09:55:16 <RST38h> (btw, fixed display colors/contrast in 1.0.1 release, and swapped red/blue back)
Feb 09 10:10:26 * Stskeeps updates his old MerTV setup.
Feb 09 10:19:24 <Jaffa> Stskeeps: MerTV?
Feb 09 10:20:40 <Stskeeps> Jaffa: http://www.daimi.au.dk/~cvm/DSC00007.JPG <- old installation
Feb 09 10:20:51 <Stskeeps> just got my test setup back from the local architect so :P
Feb 09 10:23:27 <hahlo> btw does android run on internet tablets?
Feb 09 10:23:34 <Stskeeps> yes, it does, nitdroid
Feb 09 10:23:51 <hahlo> cool must try that
Feb 09 10:27:59 <Stskeeps> it's kinda freaky to see maemo mapper on a tv though
Feb 09 10:31:46 <wazd> RST38h: http://i046.radikal.ru/0902/49/0642a6b3d2ad.png
Feb 09 10:35:33 <Corsac> hmhm, what is the most convenient way to sync contacts and calendars from/to a phone/computer on a n810?
Feb 09 10:40:15 <RST38h> wazd: Yep. That's it!
Feb 09 10:40:48 <RST38h> wazd: going to try booting ti86 tonight, if I have time =)
Feb 09 10:42:23 <wazd> RST38h: cool :)
Feb 09 10:48:47 <RST38h> http://www.flickr.com/photos/greentroll2008/3254857591/sizes/l/in/set-72157613387083704/
Feb 09 10:49:49 <Macer> http://www.mini-box.com/Mini-Box-M300-LCD
Feb 09 10:49:55 <Macer> that seems interesting
Feb 09 10:50:27 <RST38h> it is a VIA based little box
Feb 09 10:50:29 <RST38h> so?
Feb 09 10:51:05 <Macer> dual 1.6GHz atom
Feb 09 10:51:15 <Macer> w/ PCI slot
Feb 09 10:51:39 <Macer> 1 silent fan on the cpu.. no psu fan
Feb 09 10:51:43 <Macer> totally quiet
Feb 09 10:51:50 <RST38h> it will not do well as an HTPC (too slow)
Feb 09 10:52:01 <Macer> well. not for hd
Feb 09 10:52:06 <RST38h> it will not work as a mobile device (not pocketable)
Feb 09 10:52:14 <Macer> but i really just wanted something very quiet that can run ;)
Feb 09 10:52:27 <RST38h> Macer: There is plenty of choices
Feb 09 10:52:32 <Macer> http://www.mini-box.com/VoomPC-2-Car-PC-Barebone-Intel?sc=8&category=12
Feb 09 10:52:47 <Macer> that's high class ghetto
Feb 09 10:53:04 <Macer> something like that would be good if you had a usb utms modem i suppsoe
Feb 09 10:53:07 <RST38h> Macer: I would personally go with Shuttle
Feb 09 10:53:13 <Macer> i got a shuttle
Feb 09 10:53:22 <Macer> KPC K45
Feb 09 10:53:25 <RST38h> And?
Feb 09 10:53:35 <Macer> the psu fan died in it.. which was a total piece of grinding shit to begin with
Feb 09 10:53:53 <Macer> so now i'm waiting for a picoPSU to replace it because you can't find a fucking replacement anywhere!
Feb 09 10:53:54 <RST38h> Is it an AMD based model?
Feb 09 10:53:58 <Macer> intel
Feb 09 10:54:15 <RST38h> because the fan failed?
Feb 09 10:54:16 <RST38h> hmmm
Feb 09 10:54:21 <Macer> 775
Feb 09 10:54:24 <Macer> yes... because the fan failed
Feb 09 10:54:30 <Macer> now i could have done a couple of things to repair it...
Feb 09 10:54:44 <Macer> like bought a new fan and have to SOLDER pins onto the psu after ripping the old one out
Feb 09 10:54:58 <Macer> sent it into newegg for a rma replacement
Feb 09 10:55:25 <Macer> or get a picoPSU for it.. which i did
Feb 09 10:55:35 <Macer> but either way it goes.. the psu it comes with is a total piece of shit
Feb 09 10:55:55 <Macer> you can tell they KNEW they were going to break when they built them.. but they sent them out anyways with all the fucked up fans and poor psu cooling
Feb 09 10:56:05 <Macer> (made in china)
Feb 09 10:57:22 <RST38h> it is all made in china anyway
Feb 09 10:57:44 <Macer> which is why it all sucks and is shitty
Feb 09 10:58:22 <Macer> i built a pc a long time ago ... i went out of my way to make sure that most of the parts came from here... got a supermicro board... fans built by US companies... etc
Feb 09 10:58:44 * RST38h wonders if there are any US companies left
Feb 09 10:58:46 <Macer> it's been running 12 years without a problem.. i think the only thing i've done to it since is move it into a case
Feb 09 10:59:00 <Macer> made in china shuttle K45
Feb 09 10:59:05 <Macer> lasted 5 months
Feb 09 10:59:06 <Macer> :)
Feb 09 10:59:26 <soap> They build it to the specs demanded of them.  I rather think the locale of manufacture has no direct bearing on the construction quality, rather is indicative of the level of money willing to be spent by the manufacturer.
Feb 09 10:59:57 <Macer> soap: i suppose.. but whether you want to believe it or not.. actual american made products are usually of higher quality than made in china
Feb 09 11:00:10 <Macer> whether it be the fact that it is not made in a sweatshop
Feb 09 11:00:25 <glass> my nad amplifier i bought for the subwoofer is made in china too.. transformer is from sweden though.. or at least swedish design
Feb 09 11:00:30 <RST38h> soap: Shuttle is a .TW company
Feb 09 11:00:37 <Macer> or for whichever reasons... china just pushes out a lot ... at very low quality
Feb 09 11:00:43 <glass> at good quality too
Feb 09 11:01:04 <RST38h> Macer: Say what you wish, but Chinese will basically build it as well as you pay for
Feb 09 11:01:20 <Macer> RST38h: i suppose... but they are used to low pricing
Feb 09 11:01:23 <Macer> and not higher quality
Feb 09 11:01:36 <Macer> they are the nasa of the production world... always take the lowest bid :)
Feb 09 11:01:42 <RST38h> Macer: Of course - because they get better margins and volumes on low-priced items
Feb 09 11:01:46 <GeneralAntilles> Stskeeps, http://flickr.com/photos/generalantilles/2454546033/ :P
Feb 09 11:01:47 <Macer> but i suppose supply and demand
Feb 09 11:02:11 <Macer> oversupply with quick and cheap parts that can be easily replaced in order to keep price down and demand up
Feb 09 11:02:32 <Macer> how far the chinese have come :)
Feb 09 11:02:42 <glass> they're the new japan, nothing new in that
Feb 09 11:02:49 <RST38h> Exactly. In other words, it is not Chinese, but *you* to blame =)
Feb 09 11:02:58 <Macer> RST38h: sure is ;)
Feb 09 11:03:02 <Macer> haha
Feb 09 11:03:09 <RST38h> You want electronics cheaper? Here is cheaper electronics for you.
Feb 09 11:03:12 <Macer> that's it.. no more chinese parts for me
Feb 09 11:03:15 <glass> haha
Feb 09 11:03:24 <glass> good luck trying to live your life
Feb 09 11:03:24 <RST38h> Macer: Going back to the stone age? ;)
Feb 09 11:03:25 <Macer> but the US doesn't seem to have any more places that produce these sort of things
Feb 09 11:03:51 <Macer> RST38h: yeah.. i guess so
Feb 09 11:03:58 <Macer> no more china!
Feb 09 11:04:00 <glass> Macer: and even when they do it's assembled from parts from china haha..
Feb 09 11:04:14 <Macer> glass: i know :)
Feb 09 11:04:20 <Macer> it's a no win situation
Feb 09 11:04:29 <Macer> DAMN YOU FREE TRADE!!
Feb 09 11:04:40 <glass> well, buy quality designed and from brands that keep a quality assurance to your liking
Feb 09 11:04:42 <Macer> we need to bring back the tariffs
Feb 09 11:05:12 <soap> yea, lowering everyone's standard of living through imposed decision making for you work well.
Feb 09 11:05:13 * RST38h wonders why Macer hasn't mentioned the a-bomb so far
Feb 09 11:05:15 <Macer> glass: yeah.. i think i'm just going to shell out the money for my next build
Feb 09 11:05:30 <Macer> lol... what about the a-bomb?
Feb 09 11:05:30 <glass> Macer: remember that shelling out money is not a sure win either :)
Feb 09 11:05:33 <RST38h> I mean, isn't it the obvious solution for his problem? =)
Feb 09 11:05:44 <Macer> no
Feb 09 11:05:49 <Macer> we need china to buy our food ;)
Feb 09 11:05:58 <glass> Macer: lots of brands are just the same chinese shit you could buy from the chinese straight
Feb 09 11:06:15 <Macer> glass: yeah. like a shuttle kpc k45
Feb 09 11:06:17 <Macer> haha
Feb 09 11:06:50 <Macer> i suppose i could have bought the cheap chinese mini itx case they use and a fucked up psu from whatever sweatshop they make them in
Feb 09 11:06:50 <RST38h> Macer: That has been tried by the British, don't you know?
Feb 09 11:07:04 <Macer> what has?
Feb 09 11:07:28 <RST38h> Macer: Selling food to chinese
Feb 09 11:07:32 <RST38h> Macer: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opium_Wars
Feb 09 11:07:36 <Macer> HAHAH
Feb 09 11:08:12 <Macer> i meant actual food
Feb 09 11:08:14 <Macer> not food replacement :)
Feb 09 11:08:32 <glass> food replacement is better
Feb 09 11:08:34 <Macer> like the monkey that has to choose between the bananna or the cocaine
Feb 09 11:08:41 <Stskeeps> GeneralAntilles: hehe
Feb 09 11:08:55 <Macer> i want to find the study where they did that
Feb 09 11:09:00 <Macer> either the monkey eats or uses
Feb 09 11:09:01 <Macer> :)
Feb 09 11:09:11 <Macer> it's interesting.. like the spiders on all the drugs making webs
Feb 09 11:09:18 <Macer> i think the lsd spider was the most fucked up
Feb 09 11:09:30 <glass> but which of the spiders was having most fun?
Feb 09 11:09:36 <Macer> the lsd spider
Feb 09 11:09:38 <soap> so what you're saying is:  in a very price sensitive market, where people will make purchasing decisions based on savings of $10 or less, there is pressure on the manufactures to build it as cheap as possible with little regard to quality?  Whodda thunk it?
Feb 09 11:09:38 <Macer> haha
Feb 09 11:09:57 <Macer> soap: sad but true :)
Feb 09 11:10:06 <glass> it's not sad
Feb 09 11:10:17 <glass> thats why your shuttle cost something instead of costing 3-5x
Feb 09 11:10:42 <Macer> i think now i'd rather have paid  3-5x for something that wouldn't break in 5 months ;)
Feb 09 11:10:51 <glass> really?
Feb 09 11:10:54 <Macer> yes
Feb 09 11:11:09 <glass> why didn't you buy 5 shuttles?
Feb 09 11:11:18 <Macer> wanted to test 1 out first
Feb 09 11:11:47 <Macer> figured it might be a good server solution if it actually worked well.. lasted 5 months :)
Feb 09 11:11:51 <Macer> put that on the "no" list
Feb 09 11:12:13 <soap> the only sad part about it is that the majority tends to remove options for the minority as (despite some pop-econ musings) there is little profit in manufacturing for the long tail.
Feb 09 11:12:33 <Macer> amazingly small.. pci slot... lga 775 so you can put a pretty strong cpu in it.. 2G ram... 2 sata ports and and ide port
Feb 09 11:12:42 <glass> Macer: it's an eycandy desktop, not a server replacement :D
Feb 09 11:12:57 <Macer> no.. i don't think it was marketed as a desktop replacement
Feb 09 11:13:12 <Macer> i think they specifically wanted these to be used as small business servers
Feb 09 11:13:43 <soap> in that so long as the majority of the market is hyper price sensitive, the manufactures have little financial incentive to build for the less price-sensitive.  Most the non-PS products you see are actually aimed at the next largest demographic - the technical voodists - see "audiophile" products.
Feb 09 11:13:47 <Macer> especially when you consider it can run esxi ;)
Feb 09 11:14:07 <Macer> hahaha
Feb 09 11:14:10 <Macer> yeah i suppose so
Feb 09 11:14:32 <Macer> but ... considering the cost.... you just have to produce less and make the same
Feb 09 11:14:48 <soap> ahh, assuming linear cost structures, which don't exist.
Feb 09 11:14:56 <Macer> true
Feb 09 11:15:02 <Macer> it sure doesn't :)
Feb 09 11:15:25 <glass> some products don't get any better if you throw money at them either
Feb 09 11:15:29 <glass> like bt dongles
Feb 09 11:15:30 <soap> the economies of scale are so vast that a "quality" TV would cost disproportionately more than a "cheap" one.
Feb 09 11:15:58 <glass> cheap tv's are pretty good quality nowadays compared to expensive tv's just few years ago
Feb 09 11:16:21 <Macer> less demand in raw materials
Feb 09 11:16:27 <Macer> price drops everywhere
Feb 09 11:16:31 <soap> well bt dongles are rather unique in that they were designed from the specification stage to be made with as few parts as possible and for those parts to be ICs with a minimal number of discrete components attached.
Feb 09 11:16:38 <Macer> better chinese patent infringment :)
Feb 09 11:17:18 <soap> Cheap TVs today tend to have undersized caps and underspecified ones at that, one of the few places where you can save money.
Feb 09 11:17:31 <Macer> there is one thing that i'll give china credit for
Feb 09 11:17:42 <Macer> the popcorn hour network media tank
Feb 09 11:17:43 <Macer> :)
Feb 09 11:18:06 <Macer> i think i've gotten my bank for my buck out of that thing.. even though the first one broke in 3 months due to cheap chinese soldering of the power connector onto the mainboard
Feb 09 11:18:24 <Macer> but it's ok.. 2 months later i received my replacement mainboard
Feb 09 11:18:28 <soap> I just replaced the PSU caps on my DVD player as two of them had blown.  In this Philips they were undersized from day one.  Spent $3 at Radioshack to use better-than-stock parts.
Feb 09 11:18:56 <Macer> i think they were able to squeeze my mainboard in by kicking one of the refugees out of the container
Feb 09 11:19:25 <Macer> bbl
Feb 09 11:20:23 <Stskeeps> Meiz_n810: you mixed KDE and H-D?
Feb 09 11:28:29 <GeneralAntilles> Goddamn
Feb 09 11:28:40 <GeneralAntilles> Of course the vnc server tz uploaded is totally broken.
Feb 09 11:34:44 * Stskeeps ponders creative uses for the beagleboard
Feb 09 11:34:55 <Meiz_n810> Stskeeps: yep :)
Feb 09 11:35:00 <lardman> morning
Feb 09 11:35:18 <Meiz_n810> morning lardman
Feb 09 11:35:21 <wazd> lardman: hola
Feb 09 11:36:08 <Meiz_n810> Stskeeps: saw the swap uage in that pic ? it's because i just had bunch of apps open
Feb 09 11:36:12 <Stskeeps> hehe
Feb 09 11:36:49 <Meiz_n810> normally there's about 60 mb of memory used and 60 mb of swap too
Feb 09 11:37:30 <timelE61i> gan, i'm poking mediaplayer
Feb 09 11:38:15 <timelE61i> I'm considering renaming it to Multimedia
Feb 09 11:38:17 * GeneralAntilles deletes large swaths of the wikipedia article on Canola.
Feb 09 11:38:26 <timelE61i> To match Images
Feb 09 11:38:50 <timelE61i> V. Image viewer
Feb 09 11:39:04 <timelE61i> Or just Media
Feb 09 11:39:40 <timelE61i> I'll probablty rename Internet radio to Net radio
Feb 09 11:40:17 <timelE61i> And i'm considering changing Library to Home or " "
Feb 09 11:46:24 <timelE61i> It'll be Media
Feb 09 11:46:49 <timelE61i> And either AV Chat or Chat AV
Feb 09 11:49:25 * GeneralAntilles fills the room with bacon smell for lcuk.
Feb 09 11:51:46 <lcuk> mmmmmmmm thanks
Feb 09 11:52:19 <Shezi> Hi every body. Just want to know, if i can upgrade the glib in Diablo SDK
Feb 09 11:52:27 <Shezi> ? is it possible?
Feb 09 11:53:23 <lcuk> we just had a powercut here - so i sat down munching bacon n egg :)
Feb 09 11:53:27 <lcuk> mornin lardman
Feb 09 11:55:45 <Shezi> any body?
Feb 09 11:56:10 <GeneralAntilles> Hrm, anybody here good with IPA?
Feb 09 12:00:07 <lardman> Indian Pale Ale?
Feb 09 12:00:14 <lardman> I'm not too bad
Feb 09 12:01:12 <GeneralAntilles> International Phonetic Alphabet. :P
Feb 09 12:01:35 <lardman> drat!
Feb 09 12:01:42 <lardman> I was hoping for some samples
Feb 09 12:02:44 <lcuk> lardman, samples of ipa?  theres whole guides online i believe
Feb 09 12:03:00 <lcuk> ahhhh beer samples
Feb 09 12:03:05 * lcuk is slow
Feb 09 12:03:27 <lardman> :)
Feb 09 12:05:10 <lcuk> lardman, barcode.  if you were browsing through pictures taken with the phone would you expect  to be able to scan any picture with barcode?
Feb 09 12:06:06 <lcuk> ie just randomly going through recent pictures (for instance..) and zooming into one picture, being able to scan it for barcodes.  this would obviously be ontop of the live scan
Feb 09 12:06:23 <lcuk> cos i sorta made an icon for it :$
Feb 09 12:07:04 <lcuk> http://liqbase.net/barcode.png
Feb 09 12:07:27 <ccooke> Anyone else here use eggtimer?
Feb 09 12:09:09 <lardman> lcuk: yeah, you should be able to scan any picture I'd have thought
Feb 09 12:09:56 <lcuk> good - ive made the UI buttons (no backend screens yet) for sketching and scanning and tagging and managing any photo from recent photos
Feb 09 12:10:26 <lcuk> wwhen you zoom into a pic the buttons just appear at the bttom - i take it now you have seen the video
Feb 09 12:18:37 <lardman> video?
Feb 09 12:19:23 <lardman> argh, wish I'd brought my a2dp headphones in today
Feb 09 12:19:50 <lardman> note to self: must package bluez-utils with ssvb's latest patches
Feb 09 12:23:05 <lcuk> lardman, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMXp0Dg_UaY
Feb 09 12:23:09 <lcuk> its very sliq :$
Feb 09 12:24:19 <lardman> looks very nice
Feb 09 12:25:10 <lcuk> lardman, since that video i put the recent pictures section of liqbase back in and can zoom to photo group and then individual one smoothly
Feb 09 12:25:11 <lcuk> http://liqbase.net/liq.20090208_205336.lib.scr.png
Feb 09 12:25:26 <lcuk> and its on the individual view that ive put the ui bits :)
Feb 09 12:25:49 <lardman> cool, so what's the direction now then?
Feb 09 12:25:51 <keesj> lcuk: !!! kudos
Feb 09 12:26:02 <lardman> use it as the desktop UI? and have apps use it?
Feb 09 12:27:24 <lcuk> well its the base of what liqbase playground needs to be.  i have made each app now into a standalone .so file now so that i dont have to load up and worry about the whole big monolithci app
Feb 09 12:28:01 <lcuk> obviously this then makes it easier not only for myself to do stuff, but for others as well
Feb 09 12:28:07 <lardman> it is very cool, but do produce an app which uses it
Feb 09 12:28:21 <lardman> i.e. a photos viewing app would be pretty easy I imagine
Feb 09 12:28:27 <lcuk> im importing liqbase apps (which were all internally standalone anyway)
Feb 09 12:28:35 <lardman> or a general organiser app, etc
Feb 09 12:28:43 <lcuk> all the standalone fullscreen things in old liqbase should come in without an issue
Feb 09 12:28:45 <lcuk> yes
Feb 09 12:29:16 <lcuk> adding ui and linkage between things for the tagging and doing things between the different apps is expected
Feb 09 12:30:01 <lcuk> lardman, the calendar day view i keep zipping into on the vid - i want that to be proper hand drawn on the wall calendar
Feb 09 12:30:10 <lardman> can you hook into the Xserver, have liqlauncher or similar
Feb 09 12:30:12 <lcuk> but at the same time it needs to have typed up ical type sync
Feb 09 12:30:29 <lcuk> i dont know enough about xserver itself :$
Feb 09 12:30:40 <lcuk> someone else might though :)
Feb 09 12:30:57 <lcuk> thats in part why i broke the stuff down into lib|ui|widgets
Feb 09 12:31:28 <wazd_hp> lardman: btw, have you seen new lcuk video?)
Feb 09 12:31:29 <lardman> I was thinking of being able to display normal GTK+ apps using your acceleration features, as people won't just port stuff straight away
Feb 09 12:31:33 <lcuk> i wish i could send you a picture from here :)
Feb 09 12:31:55 <wazd_hp>  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMXp0Dg_UaY
Feb 09 12:32:02 <lcuk> lardman, thats ok - its my playground at first it will have the stuff i want it to have, no pressure to change - cos you can close/reopen as required
Feb 09 12:32:23 <lcuk> if others get involved and WANT to write them thats also fine :)
Feb 09 12:33:42 <Stskeeps> lardman: i think a a simple screen scrape and redraw and WM stuff can do quite a lot of neat stuff..
Feb 09 12:34:08 <lcuk> Stskeeps, "screen scrape" == read the x11 window definition at runtime
Feb 09 12:34:13 <lcuk> its entirely feasible
Feb 09 12:34:51 <Stskeeps> lcuk: well, same way that you take a screenshot
Feb 09 12:34:55 <Stskeeps> is what im talking about
Feb 09 12:35:25 <lcuk> Stskeeps, nahhh much better to simply read the locations of the windows and draw as required in the overlay
Feb 09 12:36:02 <lcuk> "mybutton1","button" -> liqcliprect_drawcell("jaffa'superbutton") ;)
Feb 09 12:37:40 <lcuk> but thats less my concern tbh, im not personally considering bringing gtk compatability into this and im not spending time right now doing x11 either.  i will however try to setup base screens and example code in the layouts and formats required for the different kinds of applications
Feb 09 12:38:12 <lcuk> ciro ip has an amazing clock (the clock on the video is called "ciroclock.c" :))
Feb 09 12:38:18 <lcuk> it just needs some of his polish
Feb 09 12:38:25 <lardman> my point is that if you did that, people would be able to use it
Feb 09 12:38:30 <lardman> and it would be cool too
Feb 09 12:38:34 <Macer> holy shit i just twisted the hell out of my ankle.. that sucked
Feb 09 12:38:41 <aquatix> ouch
Feb 09 12:38:42 <Macer> STUPID SNOW!
Feb 09 12:38:45 <lcuk> people will be able to use it anyway simon
Feb 09 12:38:51 <lcuk> ouch macer!
Feb 09 12:39:08 <lardman> lcuk: yeah, but they need it to do something useful, not just look cool :)
Feb 09 12:39:17 <Macer> my foot slipped off a stair.. i had to do the whole "i'm a man.. walk it off.. i'm a man.. walk it off" for like 20 minutes haha
Feb 09 12:39:22 <aquatix> just fyi: bluetooth keyboard+n810+gprs+ssh works just fine nowadays :)
Feb 09 12:39:31 <aquatix> used to lag and repeat like hell
Feb 09 12:39:43 <Macer> aquatix: especially the keyboard
Feb 09 12:39:47 <Macer> that shit drove me nuts
Feb 09 12:40:00 <lcuk> lardman, thats the point, i use it now to do reading andwriting from data, but what i use it for is nothing to what you guys could use it for
Feb 09 12:40:15 <aquatix> Macer: yep
Feb 09 12:40:28 <Macer> i hated typing like thiiiiiiis :)
Feb 09 12:40:32 * aquatix has been irc'ing over ssh for 1:45h yesterday from the train
Feb 09 12:40:36 <lardman> could being the operative word there, someone's got to write an app which uses it
Feb 09 12:40:38 <aquatix> yeah :)
Feb 09 12:40:53 <Macer> i like using my n800 with my g1 more than my n95... att sucked so badly
Feb 09 12:41:01 <Macer> i kept having ppp drops
Feb 09 12:41:10 <Macer> it was like slow torture
Feb 09 12:41:12 <lardman> lcuk: the text reading is very cool, as are the photo viewing tools, package them up and release them - they are something people can use right now
Feb 09 12:41:25 <lcuk> lardman, i have and i am doing - i am porting and bringing in all the bits from liqbase which are needed to handle and manage photos and sketches
Feb 09 12:41:53 <AndrewFBlack> Macer you can give me your n95 if you don't want it :)
Feb 09 12:42:00 <lardman> I'm just wondering if you'd be better having individual apps, rather than one super app which does everything
Feb 09 12:42:23 <lcuk> you can have your own app - just install the .so into the prper place
Feb 09 12:42:35 <lcuk> then it will show on the playground
Feb 09 12:42:53 <Macer> haha
Feb 09 12:42:58 <lcuk> no need to ever get involved in heavy libliqbase stuff
Feb 09 12:43:00 <lardman> yeah, but most people don't write apps
Feb 09 12:43:03 <Macer> AndrewFBlack: it still workes on tmob edge
Feb 09 12:43:17 <lcuk> lardman ?
Feb 09 12:43:20 <Macer> although i might repair it and sell it on ebay.. had a couple minor ... "accidents" with it
Feb 09 12:43:27 <Macer> need to buy an encasing for it
Feb 09 12:43:38 <Macer> and the repair tool to rip the stock one off
Feb 09 12:44:00 <lardman> lcuk: most people don't write apps, so making it easy to write them is good, but also releasing individual ones (or a wm which has the features) would be more accessible for most people
Feb 09 12:44:12 <Macer> it's all cosmetic... but it hurts in the heart walking around with a $500+ phone with scratches on it :)
Feb 09 12:44:19 <AndrewFBlack> Macer I've been looking on ebay hoping to get a decent phone for quick email checking but half the phones are ebay now are not much cheaper then new
Feb 09 12:44:35 <Macer> than
Feb 09 12:44:37 <Macer> ;)
Feb 09 12:44:46 <lcuk> lardman, ive seen many many weekend projects over the last 12 months which are cool in their own way, but which are no more than a single dialog in the right place
Feb 09 12:45:09 <Macer> than compares... then is time (had a girlfriend that used to drive me nuts when i did that shit so now i'm stuck driving others nuts for the rest of my life)
Feb 09 12:45:10 <lcuk> screensavers, options dialogs, tea timers, calculators etc
Feb 09 12:45:29 <Macer> AndrewFBlack: yeah though... phones on ebay aren't worth it.. plus.. i probably wouldn't trust an ebay phone anyways
Feb 09 12:45:29 <lardman> lcuk: yep?
Feb 09 12:45:49 <AndrewFBlack> I'm considering getting a Nokia 9300 off ebay I know its old but its cheap lol
Feb 09 12:45:57 <lardman> lcuk: if you want to replace the ui, then do the whole thing it what I'm saying
Feb 09 12:46:10 <Macer> AndrewFBlack: get an e71.. they're pretty low now too
Feb 09 12:46:11 <lardman> or produce individual apps which use the liqbase abilities
Feb 09 12:46:12 <lcuk> those same weekend projects can be made and used in liqbase and look pretty and act like nice fast 3d dynamic things
Feb 09 12:46:43 <lardman> if they could just be run as is, that would be cool
Feb 09 12:46:44 <slonopotamus> lcuk, so... you've created meta-weekend project?
Feb 09 12:46:49 <lcuk> lol
Feb 09 12:47:13 <Macer> e71 is a pretty sexy phone too if you ask me
Feb 09 12:47:33 <lcuk> lardman, the alternative at this moment in time will be exactly the same: use clutter to get pretty things
Feb 09 12:47:51 <lardman> needs a hook into the wm though
Feb 09 12:48:09 <AndrewFBlack> Macer, Most of the E71s are still $300 on ebay
Feb 09 12:48:19 <lcuk> but it sits on the wm itself, how can it hook into it as well
Feb 09 12:48:29 <lardman> lcuk: clutter?
Feb 09 12:48:37 <Macer> really? had a friend who was finding them from 200-250
Feb 09 12:48:39 <Macer> :)
Feb 09 12:49:01 <Macer> maybe he bought them all haha
Feb 09 12:49:14 <lcuk> isnt that gonna be what the new ui will be in?
Feb 09 12:49:47 <lardman> yes, and the wm will use it, no?
Feb 09 12:49:53 <AndrewFBlack> These are all unlocked so that might be why they are charging more
Feb 09 12:50:09 <lcuk> dunno, ive run clutter apps, not a clutter compositing manager
Feb 09 12:50:16 <lcuk> its got its own actor ui elements and stuff
Feb 09 12:50:23 <lcuk> it can sit *inside* a gtk window
Feb 09 12:50:33 <AndrewFBlack> I saw a E61 for real cheap
Feb 09 12:50:45 <lardman> indeed, but it would be far cooler if the wm itself used clutter, and likewise liqbase
Feb 09 12:51:00 <lcuk> obviously, but that involves learning x11 server
Feb 09 12:51:05 <Stskeeps> abuse libmatchbox2?
Feb 09 12:51:16 <lardman> ^^
Feb 09 12:51:33 <lcuk> which i have pondered about over the time
Feb 09 12:51:35 <Stskeeps> (that's what nokia is)
Feb 09 12:51:54 <slonopotamus> anyone can explain  what this crap does? dh_installinit -pnokia-tablets-pointercal --name=nokia-tablets-pointercal -u"start 92 S . stop 23 0 1 6 ." --no-start
Feb 09 12:52:14 <Stskeeps> slonopotamus: sets up a init.d thing
Feb 09 12:52:28 <lcuk> but im not gonna sit down and do that because it will be a half fix and limit more than it allows and also take 10longer
Feb 09 12:52:51 <slonopotamus> Stskeep, i understand that :) but what are those magc numbers for?
Feb 09 12:53:22 <lardman> default settings
Feb 09 12:53:23 <lardman> ?
Feb 09 12:53:36 <lcuk> lardman :D how about a halfway house - read in gtk dialog description xml file thingies and produce liqcells thereof :P :D
Feb 09 12:53:54 <lardman> yeah, sounds good, but again people will need to recompile
Feb 09 12:54:03 <lardman> why not replace libgtk+ ;)
Feb 09 12:54:12 <lcuk> how can they use things in maemo without recompiling
Feb 09 12:54:14 <lcuk> they are developers :P
Feb 09 12:54:18 <lcuk> lolol
Feb 09 12:54:20 <Stskeeps> slonopotamus: S92
Feb 09 12:54:23 <lcuk> i did consider that as well
Feb 09 12:54:27 <lardman> no, most people aren't devs
Feb 09 12:54:47 <Stskeeps> slonopotamus: in /etc/rcS.d/S92nokia-tablets-pointercal i think
Feb 09 12:54:57 <lcuk> ive been arguing for this for months simon - i think its MUCH too difficult to get involved in dev in maemo
Feb 09 12:55:12 <slonopotamus> Stskeeps, --no-start?
Feb 09 12:55:14 <lcuk> a weekend projject coded with libliqbase ON DEVICE can be entirely achievable
Feb 09 12:55:18 <lcuk> easily and quickly
Feb 09 12:55:31 <Stskeeps> slonopotamus: i think it meant "don't start this while installing the package"
Feb 09 12:55:37 <slonopotamus> Stskeeps, omg
Feb 09 12:55:46 <Stskeeps> slonopotamus: it makes sense occasionally to do this though
Feb 09 12:56:17 <slonopotamus> Stskeeps, you start init script from installation scripts?
Feb 09 12:56:27 <Stskeeps> slonopotamus: there's some cases it makes sense
Feb 09 12:56:32 <slonopotamus> oh my
Feb 09 12:58:00 <Macer> holy shit.. supposed to be 63 here today!
Feb 09 12:58:07 <Macer> i've got to go wash my car!
Feb 09 12:58:08 <Macer> heh
Feb 09 12:58:19 * slonopotamus likes debian less and less
Feb 09 12:59:07 * lcuk has to go as well.  lardman i do understand your concerns, why dont we try and thrash out a plan to bring gtk into it properly :)
Feb 09 12:59:23 <Stskeeps> lcuk: i think this stuff can be done entirely without gtk :P
Feb 09 12:59:35 <slonopotamus> Stskeeps, now i understand why ubuntu is so  slow. it just runs everything iit has installed.
Feb 09 12:59:42 * lcuk agrees too, but lardman has a very good point
Feb 09 13:00:09 <Stskeeps> slonopotamus: well if you want an application to depend on a x server, you better well want it running..
Feb 09 13:00:18 <slonopotamus> Stskeeps, nope
Feb 09 13:00:23 <lcuk> bbl
Feb 09 13:00:37 <slonopotamus> Stskeeps, maybe i want remote x app
Feb 09 13:00:57 <slonopotamus> Stskeeps, and don't need local x server
Feb 09 13:01:06 <Stskeeps> i knew you were going to say that :P
Feb 09 13:01:22 <slonopotamus> Stskeeps, or  i want local server but didn't configure it yet
Feb 09 13:02:05 <slonopotamus> Stskeeps, for example, i need to choose gdm/kdm
Feb 09 13:02:28 <Stskeeps> i'm not a debian fan, btw.
Feb 09 13:03:12 <slonopotamus> well... hmm... it's ok enough for you that you build a distro on top of it
Feb 09 13:03:27 <Stskeeps> nor ubuntu for that sake, deep down i'm a freebsd person, but for the sake of ease of development and use, and the targeted intent of mer, it makes sense to build it with ubuntu bricks
Feb 09 13:04:18 <slonopotamus> 'ubuntu bricks'... have somee links to read about that?
Feb 09 13:04:37 <Stskeeps> i run nexenta on my fileservers, xp on my media centre & laptop, maemo on my tablet, freebsd on some of the servers i manage, so, i just go with what makes sense
Feb 09 13:05:40 <slonopotamus> omg. nexenta is something scary :)
Feb 09 13:06:51 <lardman> lcuk: yes i agree a w/e project can be coded on device, fine, but most people still aren't devs, nothing will change that really
Feb 09 13:10:08 <lardman> and people will just use python if they want that anyway
Feb 09 13:39:05 * Jaffa scans the Canola beta 11 thread; has anyone pointed out to them that open sourcing at the point of release isn't very... encouraging
Feb 09 13:39:24 <RST38h> Mmm?
Feb 09 13:40:39 <aquatix> Jaffa: like, "here's a release and oh, here's the source to fix the bugs still in it"?
Feb 09 13:41:20 * RST38h does not see the problem
Feb 09 13:41:20 <Jaffa> aquatix: something like that; it's a "oh, you wanted the source - here it is" rather than "we're approaching release, let's make it better"
Feb 09 13:41:30 <johnx> well, better than the Netscape/Mozilla: "Here's a bunch of code. Now go turn it into a browser."
Feb 09 13:41:32 <Stskeeps> they actually open sourced now?
Feb 09 13:41:48 <johnx> they will after the final release
Feb 09 13:41:56 <johnx> soo...3 weeks I think they said
Feb 09 13:42:03 <Jaffa> Stskeeps: "within 3 weeks" (again)
Feb 09 13:42:21 <MoRpHeUz> Jaffa: canola was meant to be open sourced since the begining..it just had problems with lawyers
Feb 09 13:42:25 <johnx> heh...I recall betting it would be out before 2009. *cough*
Feb 09 13:42:31 <MoRpHeUz> it's a shame it couldnt be opened before...
Feb 09 13:42:33 <RST38h> Jaffa: You seriously believe that if they release the source now, someone will help them make it better?
Feb 09 13:42:42 <MoRpHeUz> but it's better late than never =)
Feb 09 13:42:54 <johnx> RST38h, at very least I think we'll see some packages for different devices
Feb 09 13:43:10 <RST38h> johnx: if at all
Feb 09 13:43:19 <Jaffa> RST38h: I don't know; typically when people throw code out with release - and don't want to show code that is in development - the level of community interest in improving it is diminished
Feb 09 13:43:20 <GeneralAntilles> Jaffa, tell who, exactly?
Feb 09 13:43:25 <GeneralAntilles> The devs? :roll:
Feb 09 13:43:45 <RST38h> Jaffa: Well, let us say you are a developer, some developer
Feb 09 13:44:02 <MoRpHeUz> Jaffa: and the code that is being developed is going to be released as well so....
Feb 09 13:44:11 <RST38h> Jaffa: And somebody releases n megabytes of PMP code and tells you "go fix it!"
Feb 09 13:44:19 <GeneralAntilles> Jaffa, I think you're misunderstanding the "motivations" for the delay.
Feb 09 13:44:19 * MoRpHeUz goes back to work =)
Feb 09 13:44:20 <RST38h> Jaffa: Notice a few things:
Feb 09 13:44:28 <MoRpHeUz> GeneralAntilles: probably he is ;)
Feb 09 13:44:40 * Jaffa asserts that open source code which is thrown over a wall, with a release; rather than has been developed in the open has a harder time garnering a development community.
Feb 09 13:44:57 <RST38h> Jaffa: 1) it is not your code 2) you will most likely spend a lot of time trying to understand it 3) whatever changes you make won't help your ego much 4) you are not being paid
Feb 09 13:45:15 <johnx> ah well. I can at least say I'll be making sure it works nice on Mer on VGA devices, but that might be a trivial amount of work given that it already seems to handle rotation on the n8x0 well
Feb 09 13:45:17 <Jaffa> GeneralAntilles: No, but I have no route to explain things to the lawyers/management/...
Feb 09 13:45:39 <GeneralAntilles> Jaffa, exactly.
Feb 09 13:45:43 <RST38h> Jaffa: No, do tell me, as a REAL developer, not a fictional OSS developer suspended in vacuum at some OSS museum, WILL you work on this code?
Feb 09 13:45:51 <GeneralAntilles> Jaffa, anybody who you have a route to talking to already understands all of that.
Feb 09 13:45:57 <RST38h> s/No/Now
Feb 09 13:46:00 <GeneralAntilles> Jaffa, the real problem are lawyers/management
Feb 09 13:48:10 <thp> question for the Mer people: having a package in maemo extras, are there any steps necessary to offer my apps to Mer also? or can mer use maemo extras as repository?
Feb 09 13:48:26 <etrunko> infobot: seen chelli
Feb 09 13:48:35 <infobot> chelli <n=chelli@debian/developer/tschmidt> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 61d 16h 45m 42s ago, saying: ':)'.
Feb 09 13:48:59 <Stskeeps> thp: which language?
Feb 09 13:49:07 <Stskeeps> (which packages, more particularly)
Feb 09 13:49:23 <thp> Stskeeps: gpodder (python/pygtk), tennix (c/sdl)
Feb 09 13:50:05 <Stskeeps> thp: probably not but best way is to test if it builds or runs :)
Feb 09 13:50:45 <thp> Stskeeps: so, if i want my apps in Mer, I have to re-compile them in a Mer SDK?
Feb 09 13:50:47 <Stskeeps> we have taken a bit different direction than just patching on top of a maemo4, so things might be new and shocking (read: up to date linux alignment), so many things work :P
Feb 09 13:51:14 <Stskeeps> thp: basically, if you grab the mer VMDK, and you can build your packages with apt-get install build-essentials, it will work
Feb 09 13:51:42 <Stskeeps> thp: your python packages should work fine
Feb 09 13:51:55 <Stskeeps> i would check right away but i dont have a mer installation handy :)
Feb 09 13:51:55 <thp> Stskeeps: ok. and is there an "official" mer repository where i can submit my source packages?
Feb 09 13:52:41 <Stskeeps> well we have repository.mer.tspre.org currently, but it's mostly for the base system and such
Feb 09 13:52:49 <Stskeeps> we don't have sound just yet, btw
Feb 09 13:53:02 <GeneralAntilles> Stskeeps, would it make sense to merge the Mer and Extras autobuilders?
Feb 09 13:53:02 <Stskeeps> (on nxxx)
Feb 09 13:53:25 <thp> Stskeeps: yep, but I'd love the idea and direction mer is going
Feb 09 13:53:49 <Stskeeps> GeneralAntilles: i am still pondering how much trouble it causes if we state scratchbox is an accelerator and not what defines the platform it compiles for
Feb 09 13:54:08 <thp> Stskeeps: so, if mer continues at the current pace, it might be a real alternative for daily use to maemo (at least on n8x0 devices)
Feb 09 13:54:33 <Stskeeps> GeneralAntilles: which means, if it doesn't compile accelerated, it will compile "native" (emulation)
Feb 09 13:55:33 <Stskeeps> thp: well, best way to test if your apps work is by installing mer, and simply installing the packages - mer allows you to build your packages on device too :)
Feb 09 13:56:08 <Stskeeps> and then you can submit it to our builders (it's fairly simple to gain uploda rights)
Feb 09 13:56:19 <thp> Stskeeps: ok. will try that. my last attempt with 0.7 failed, so i'll try again today
Feb 09 13:56:30 <Stskeeps> thp: alright, if you need any help just prod me
Feb 09 13:57:19 <Stskeeps> johnx: any luck with powerpc builder yet btw?
Feb 09 13:58:42 <Stskeeps> i wonder how many apps will keel over and die if i reverse Enter and KP_Enter, to make maemo more cross-platform
Feb 09 13:59:35 <johnx> Stskeeps, nope. Haven't been poking at the Wii lately. I want to get my set of hardware packages for the zaurus in shippable state first
Feb 09 14:00:09 <johnx> I tend to spread myself too thin...
Feb 09 14:02:33 <johnx> What daemon handles N810 keyboard slide-in/out events?
Feb 09 14:05:40 <benson> johnx: dsme, maybe? uncertain, but that's what I thought.
Feb 09 14:07:02 <johnx> yeah. I'm still waiting for word about OHM one way or the other :/
Feb 09 14:12:22 <benson> Ah... I didn't realize you meant in 5; no clue there. :)
Feb 09 14:12:22 <StsN800> johnx, 10 bucks on HAL
Feb 09 14:13:17 <johnx> ah, neat. that'd be nice to hook into then
Feb 09 14:16:29 <StsN800> johnx, how does your usb keyboard work with maemo? enter works as kp enter?
Feb 09 14:17:10 <johnx> maemo4 or mer?
Feb 09 14:17:19 <StsN800> maemo
Feb 09 14:17:56 <johnx> enter is enter I believe. it prints a carriage return / linefeed in a text editor. need a different test?
Feb 09 14:18:01 <RST38h> "AOL subscribers are one of the few online populations that still actually click on contextual ads"
Feb 09 14:18:08 * RST38h cackles gleefully
Feb 09 14:18:30 <StsN800> k - it doesnt act like dpad center?
Feb 09 14:19:14 <johnx> been a while since I used it. I'll do some testing
Feb 09 14:19:25 <StsN800> k
Feb 09 14:19:35 <RST38h> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/02/09/dziuba_google_spending/
Feb 09 14:19:56 <RST38h> (sorry johnx, I know you hate those links :))
Feb 09 14:23:18 <benson[away]> I think Enter on USB keyboard is "Enter", just like D-pad center, not "KP_Enter",  but D-pad-center=keyboard is disabled when USB keyboard is connected so it still works.
Feb 09 14:23:43 * benson[away] actually _is_ awau in 10 seconds. :p
Feb 09 14:24:05 <johnx> :)
Feb 09 14:24:27 <johnx> yeah, xev is showing me Return from the D-pad center in all cases
Feb 09 14:24:47 <RST38h> Gentlemen, there is a BUG filed for this
Feb 09 14:24:58 * RST38h can't believe some people are still not aware of this crap
Feb 09 14:25:18 <johnx> hmm? a bug filed for google being fickle about its toys?
Feb 09 14:25:38 <RST38h> johnx: No, a bug filed for the bloody dpad center being return key
Feb 09 14:25:47 <RST38h> and messing up bt keyboards
Feb 09 14:25:48 <johnx> why is that a bug?
Feb 09 14:26:10 <RST38h> johnx: it is, if you happen to use an external keyboard
Feb 09 14:26:29 <johnx> pretend I'm using one right now. wat problem should I see?
Feb 09 14:26:34 <RST38h> https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3913
Feb 09 14:26:41 <johnx> ah, thanks
Feb 09 14:27:02 <RST38h> johnx: Any application that uses N810 ENTER key will not work with external keyboard enter
Feb 09 14:27:31 <RST38h> johnx: Unless that application also processes N810 RETURN key which is PITA because it is so easy to press accidentally while navigating
Feb 09 14:27:44 <johnx> the d-pad center or the return key?
Feb 09 14:27:57 <RST38h> johnx: The dpad center IS the bloody RETURN key
Feb 09 14:28:05 <RST38h> johnx: That is the whole problem
Feb 09 14:28:40 <johnx> so the key on the right edge of the n810 keyboard sends the same keysym as d-pad center?
Feb 09 14:28:45 <RST38h> johnx: Ok, it is half of the problem. Another half is mechanical: because dpad center is easy to press accidentally, an app programmer would usually disable it
Feb 09 14:28:58 <RST38h> johnx: No. The proper n810 ENTER key sends KP_Enter
Feb 09 14:29:05 <johnx> ok, that's the bug
Feb 09 14:29:08 <RST38h> johnx: Which is normally reserved for keypad ENTER
Feb 09 14:29:19 <RST38h> check the 3913 description
Feb 09 14:29:42 * johnx reads
Feb 09 14:30:10 <RST38h> johnx: I will add a clarification about RETURN in a moment
Feb 09 14:35:44 <RST38h> johnx: Done
Feb 09 14:36:47 <johnx> ok, so what should d-pad center send?
Feb 09 14:48:00 * timelE61i chuckles
Feb 09 14:48:09 <timelE61i> you do't need a bt keyboard to suffer
Feb 09 14:48:21 <thopiekar_N800> hi
Feb 09 14:48:23 <timelE61i> Run mer in vmware on a traditional laptop
Feb 09 14:48:38 <timelE61i> Enter won't work most of the time
Feb 09 14:48:43 <Stskeeps> i know :P
Feb 09 14:49:03 <johnx> gah
Feb 09 14:49:27 <RST38h> johnx: dpad center should ideally send GDK_DPAD_CENTER :)
Feb 09 14:51:02 <thopiekar> who of you has got a N800?
Feb 09 14:51:06 <GAN800> Hum, I think the adv-backlight component needs some fixin'.
Feb 09 14:52:09 <thopiekar> today i had the first time strange black bars/lines on the right side of my screen...
Feb 09 14:53:15 <thopiekar> the same line when the device restarts after a long time of 100% cpu load..
Feb 09 14:53:20 <thopiekar> *lines
Feb 09 14:53:43 <johnx> I don't see lines when the watchdog is triggered. have you been seeing this since the beginning?
Feb 09 14:54:04 <thopiekar> no the first time today...
Feb 09 14:54:39 <thopiekar> I just removed the key-lock to note my new homework at school..
Feb 09 14:57:52 <timelE61i> gAn: fixing, how?
Feb 09 14:59:19 <timeless> so, um has anyone noticed any glaring errors in my l10n-package?
Feb 09 15:00:50 * timeless found one :(
Feb 09 15:06:43 <r2d2rogers> my 770 just passed the punt test....
Feb 09 15:06:51 <Stskeeps> punt?
Feb 09 15:06:52 <r2d2rogers> managed to drop, and kick it
Feb 09 15:07:03 <Stskeeps> well it is a solid thing
Feb 09 15:07:09 <r2d2rogers> luckily my boss was in the way and has a good sense of humor
Feb 09 15:09:16 <Stskeeps> my tablet has taken some quite bad beatings once in a while too
Feb 09 15:11:46 <johnx> mine mostly deals out the beatings :)
Feb 09 15:13:41 <Stskeeps> so, it acts differently when usb keyboard connected, but same keysym?
Feb 09 15:13:52 <johnx> yup. special huh?
Feb 09 15:14:05 <Stskeeps> well, there'shope..
Feb 09 15:14:19 <johnx> and when a USB keyboard is connected the enter key on the keyboards sends Return while the N810's keyboard's Return key sends KP_ENTER
Feb 09 15:15:52 <RST38h> Sts: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3913
Feb 09 15:16:25 <Stskeeps> RST38h: yeah, i know the bug and i think it's a horrid design error, but im wondering if i can work around it :P
Feb 09 15:16:58 <GAN800> timeless, components, versions, assignees, etc. I compile a list later.
Feb 09 15:17:13 <johnx> at very least the N810 keyboard should send Return from return key...
Feb 09 15:17:28 <johnx> as for the d-pad center...I'm still not sold on what would be best for it to send...
Feb 09 15:17:41 <timeless> ok
Feb 09 15:17:46 <timeless> feel free to file a bug for it
Feb 09 15:17:58 <RST38h> Sts: You can't
Feb 09 15:18:20 <Stskeeps> RST38h: obviously you can since usb keyboards work and send Return with expected results
Feb 09 15:18:29 <RST38h> Sts: I have tried hard but the only "solution" I found is to make KP_Enter = Shift+Return
Feb 09 15:18:30 <Stskeeps> i just want it to act sane on x86, really
Feb 09 15:18:50 <RST38h> Sts: at the application level of course
Feb 09 15:19:06 <RST38h> So, with this "solution" USB keyboard enter works when pressed with shift
Feb 09 15:19:17 <johnx> further question: is there any app that breaks if the "Enter" key on the N810 keyboard actually sends "Return"?
Feb 09 15:19:23 <RST38h> and the damn center key does not work =)
Feb 09 15:19:40 <RST38h> johnx: My emulators will, currently
Feb 09 15:20:07 <RST38h> johnx: I had to disable GDK_Return processing, otherwise I would get lots of accidental keypresses
Feb 09 15:20:21 <johnx> ah, from the craptastic N810 d-pad?
Feb 09 15:20:26 <RST38h> exactly
Feb 09 15:20:34 <RST38h> But N810 dpad is not alone in this
Feb 09 15:20:43 <johnx> I really did think the N810 was about as bad as it could get...
Feb 09 15:20:43 <RST38h> On Symbian, it is customary to disable dpad center
Feb 09 15:20:50 <johnx> s/N810/N800 d-pad/
Feb 09 15:20:50 <infobot> johnx meant: I really did think the N800 d-pad was about as bad as it could get...
Feb 09 15:21:18 <RST38h> johnx: Well, someone at Nokia should take a really hard look at dpads
Feb 09 15:21:32 <RST38h> johnx: Stuff in E61/E71/E60 was ugly but perfectly usable
Feb 09 15:21:42 <johnx> I've said it a million times. They badly need to steal the Zaurus keypad wholesale
Feb 09 15:21:48 <johnx> and it doesn't even matter which one...
Feb 09 15:21:53 <RST38h> johnx: The later dpads (N810, E90, etc) are pure crap
Feb 09 15:22:24 <RST38h> johnx: there is a *worse* dpad on the market. Look at any RAZRsque Moto phone ;)
Feb 09 15:22:54 * johnx won't touch a phone unless it has decent physical keys that I can thumb-type without looking
Feb 09 15:23:23 <wazd> RST38h: hm, E90 d-pad felt pretty nice for me :(
Feb 09 15:26:32 <johnx> RST38h, besides your emus it's mostly other non-GTK apps that would break, right?
Feb 09 15:29:38 <RST38h> wazd: how many times have you accidentally pressed the center key though? =)
Feb 09 15:29:53 <RST38h> johnx: Anyone who disabled dpad center will break
Feb 09 15:30:00 <RST38h> johnx: gtk or no gtk, it does not matter
Feb 09 15:30:24 <johnx> I think the tendency in gtk apps is to not disable d-pad center though
Feb 09 15:30:30 <johnx> at least from my experience with an N800
Feb 09 15:30:41 <RST38h> johnx: then your navigation becomes PITA
Feb 09 15:31:14 <RST38h> we really only have two gtk apps though: Gnumeric and Abiword. Worth checkign at least these
Feb 09 15:31:31 <RST38h> XChat and Pidgin too
Feb 09 15:31:35 <johnx> ah, I was lumping hildon apps in that pile too
Feb 09 15:32:11 <RST38h> johnx: well, Xournal is also a gtk app, but it mostly uses touch
Feb 09 15:33:24 <johnx> quicknote, leafpad, cbrpager
Feb 09 15:34:37 <johnx> such a stupid situation O_o;
Feb 09 15:36:06 <RST38h> johnx: if I remember correctly, don't expect it fixed until harmattan
Feb 09 15:36:25 <Stskeeps> FIXEDINMER
Feb 09 15:36:25 <johnx> yeah, well...it will probably be 'fixed' one way or another in Mer
Feb 09 15:36:25 <Stskeeps> :P
Feb 09 15:36:54 <thopiekar> has someone of you this (http://picasaweb.google.com/thopiekar/N800Screen#) problem, too? theme glasser, background Tritanium 1...
Feb 09 15:36:54 <johnx> possibly s/fixed/different, hopefully better/
Feb 09 15:37:19 <thopiekar> there is a shadow behind light-colored windows..
Feb 09 15:37:30 <thopiekar> or here the home menu..
Feb 09 15:40:03 <johnx> thopiekar, I can't see what you're pointing out. sorry.
Feb 09 15:43:21 <thopiekar> hmm its very hard to show but if I open the menue like it shown a shadow appears on the right side if the menu.. so hmm very hard to explain but is it really to hard to see?!
Feb 09 15:44:14 <johnx> it's hard to tell what's actually there and what is an effect of the camera you used
Feb 09 15:44:30 <johnx> might be better if you could use macro mode or similar so it wasn't so blurry
Feb 09 15:45:01 <johnx> but I think I can see. it's a straight dark area that goes all the way from the right edge of the home menu to the right edge of the screen
Feb 09 15:46:21 <thopiekar> yes thats what I mean
Feb 09 15:46:44 <thopiekar> is this behavior of the screen normal?!
Feb 09 15:46:57 <thopiekar> I never noticed that before, too
Feb 09 15:47:25 <johnx> I don't know. I've seen it on other LCDs. probably a standard problem with age?
Feb 09 15:48:29 <thopiekar> johnx: hmm
Feb 09 15:48:50 <johnx> what's strange is I see it more often on CRTs
Feb 09 15:49:13 <aquatix> sounds like an ancient lcd
Feb 09 15:49:20 <aquatix> those where the days
Feb 09 15:49:37 <thopiekar> but when the other problem with the thiny bars appears and I would be able to make a photo of it I will send my n800 with the photo to nokia..
Feb 09 15:49:53 <johnx> is it under warranty?
Feb 09 15:49:56 <thopiekar> CRT'S
Feb 09 15:49:58 <thopiekar> yes!
Feb 09 15:50:10 <johnx> nice
Feb 09 15:50:21 <johnx> my warranty ended quite a while ago...
Feb 09 15:52:26 <t_s_o> ugh, i keep getting the feeling that MID's will be a disservice to linux, as it seems to be used as a "featurephone firmware" RAD rather then a proper os...
Feb 09 15:52:39 <johnx> yeah
Feb 09 15:52:57 <t_s_o> when one see windows and "just works" in the same text, there is a problem
Feb 09 15:52:59 <johnx> but it's part of the gradual shift to 'computer as an appliance' IMHO
Feb 09 15:53:22 <johnx> the first steps are always painful, especially for the people who like the status quo
Feb 09 15:53:24 <thopiekar> what are CRT's johnx?
Feb 09 15:53:24 <t_s_o> even tho the same text also mentioned a driver conflict resulting in a reinstall
Feb 09 15:53:40 <qwerty12> Can it be true!? An radio application for N800 that can actually record radio :O :)
Feb 09 15:53:42 <johnx> thopiekar, those older monitors :)
Feb 09 15:53:50 <t_s_o> so maybe people are just so used to the windows issues that they no longer see them?
Feb 09 15:53:53 <thopiekar> aah^^
Feb 09 15:54:09 <t_s_o> qwerty12: what app is that?
Feb 09 15:54:16 <qwerty12> t_s_o, http://dev.ivanov.eu/projects/boafm/index.html
Feb 09 15:55:06 <t_s_o> hey, nice
Feb 09 15:55:27 <johnx> t_s_o, just like people who road horses in the early 20th century didn't think about horse poop but still saw the problems with cars :)
Feb 09 15:55:39 <johnx> s/road/rode/ <- fail
Feb 09 15:55:41 <t_s_o> heh
Feb 09 15:56:24 <t_s_o> or maybe one could speed of a "nessesary evil"?
Feb 09 15:56:27 <johnx> great ars technica that covers the (in my mind) related issue of moving from paper books to ebooks: http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/news/2009/02/the-once-and-future-e-book.ars
Feb 09 16:02:53 <johnx> does anyone else see a dead-end to completely open, general purpose computers? or am I just crazy?
Feb 09 16:03:14 <Stskeeps> johnx: i just see everything going towards pervasive computing
Feb 09 16:03:35 <Guest97144> holy crap! My power outlet just fired up! xD
Feb 09 16:03:38 <t_s_o> johnx: it depends on ones definition of a gpc...
Feb 09 16:04:08 <t_s_o> wazd: at first glance i read "fried up"...
Feb 09 16:04:20 <johnx> the model that desktop windows, desktop linux and desktop mac os represent today
Feb 09 16:04:27 <wazd> t_s_o: well, that was next :)
Feb 09 16:04:46 <t_s_o> johnx: it may well be, for the most part
Feb 09 16:05:08 <t_s_o> in that more and more entertainment boxes are computer internally but present a custom interface
Feb 09 16:05:51 <slonopotamus> Stskeeps, gimme some hints on wifi and bluetooth, please
Feb 09 16:05:57 <t_s_o> and that with networking, both wired and wireless, becoming simpler and more powerful, as well as protocols being more and more standardized, there is no real need for them
Feb 09 16:06:50 <Stskeeps> slonopotamus: tablet-wireless
Feb 09 16:06:54 <Stskeeps> bluetooth is simple
Feb 09 16:07:12 <slonopotamus> Stskeeps, thx
Feb 09 16:07:15 <Stskeeps> also, cx3110x.ko from mer
Feb 09 16:07:16 <johnx> t_s_o, and with everyone's important stuff moving onto someone else's server anyways...
Feb 09 16:07:24 <t_s_o> hell, i sometimes see the people that insist on putting windows or ubuntu on netbooks as derailing the concept. as to me the netbook is my thought of a "typewriter with a browser" coming into existence
Feb 09 16:08:28 <johnx> docs.google.com means that the browser is a superset of the typewriter :)
Feb 09 16:09:57 <lcuk> johnx, i dont see an end to them - i see the way we interact as changing
Feb 09 16:10:24 <johnx> ah, I don't see an end per se, so much as an end to them being the machine that most people use
Feb 09 16:10:57 <johnx> to rip more great analogies from that ars technica article, horses didn't go away either :)
Feb 09 16:10:58 <lcuk> granted - right now i carry my 810 with me and find a terminal keyboard/screen to do my dev from
Feb 09 16:11:29 <lcuk> (i love that principle by the way:D)
Feb 09 16:12:41 <slonopotamus> hildon project @ gnome.org looks dead. or i'm mistaken?
Feb 09 16:13:03 <Stskeeps> not mistaken, i believe
Feb 09 16:13:17 <t_s_o> hmm, qwerty12, can you find any way to route the audio to speakers?
Feb 09 16:13:27 <t_s_o> in that boafm app, that is
Feb 09 16:14:18 <slonopotamus> Hildon (last edited 2008-02-03 14:47:11 by localhost)
Feb 09 16:14:19 <t_s_o> cute, its toolbar shows a exit button when in fullscreen mode
Feb 09 16:14:26 <slonopotamus> yep, it's dead
Feb 09 16:15:08 <qwerty12> t_s_o, not in that app but you can run "dbus-send --type=method_call --dest=com.nokia.osso_hp_ls_controller /com/nokia/osso_hp_ls_controller com.nokia.osso_hp_ls_controller.loudspeaker.force_loudspeaker_on" from a terminal
Feb 09 16:15:21 <t_s_o> ugh :P
Feb 09 16:15:27 <slonopotamus> omg
Feb 09 16:15:44 <t_s_o> i somewhat hate those dbus commandlines
Feb 09 16:16:03 <qwerty12> Creating one generates more hate in me ;)
Feb 09 16:16:23 <t_s_o> heh, your probably right
Feb 09 16:17:25 <johnx> I never complained much because I figured I just wasn't smart enough to appreciate the sheer elegance of those lines...but yeah, they're kind of opaque
Feb 09 16:21:14 * Stskeeps fails too understand how the heck Enter on USB keyboards can work.
Feb 09 16:21:30 <johnx> what do you mean?
Feb 09 16:21:46 <johnx> when you have a keyboard plugged in apps treat the 'Return' keypress differently
Feb 09 16:21:46 <Stskeeps> i cannot find any piece of code matching it
Feb 09 16:21:56 <Stskeeps> yeah, but where do they get the info from?
Feb 09 16:22:10 <qwerty12> In mer? X86? ARMEL?
Feb 09 16:22:11 * RST38h yawns
Feb 09 16:22:13 <RST38h> Ok
Feb 09 16:22:21 <johnx> guessing now: I think H-I-M normally eats the "Return" keysym
Feb 09 16:22:55 <RST38h> Sts: Your USB keyboard is handled by a USB driver that send RETURN key event to /dev/input that gets mapped to GDK_Return by GDK
Feb 09 16:23:06 <RST38h> Sts: This is an absolutely normal situation
Feb 09 16:23:14 <Stskeeps> yes, i agree
Feb 09 16:23:26 <RST38h> Sts: Any desktop GTK app will treat GDK_return as, well, return key
Feb 09 16:23:50 <aquatix> btw, is it a known bug/issue that the enter key of my keyboard doesn't work in Mer?
Feb 09 16:23:59 <aquatix> quite confusing in a VM
Feb 09 16:24:00 <Stskeeps> aquatix: exactly what we're discussing
Feb 09 16:24:01 <RST38h> Sts: Now, an extended PC keyboard (and they are all extended now except for portable ones) will also have a numeric keypad and on that keypad there is another return key
Feb 09 16:24:07 <aquatix> Stskeeps: yeah, got that feeling
Feb 09 16:24:14 <aquatix> Stskeeps: but i just dropped in here
Feb 09 16:24:23 * aquatix listens for a bit :)
Feb 09 16:24:36 <RST38h> Sts: THAT key maps to GDK_KP_Enter but most desktop apps will treat it the same way as GDK_Return
Feb 09 16:25:24 <RST38h> Sts: And now we come to the problem: for some reason, Nokia mapped DPad center button to GDK_Return. When they made N810, GDK_Return was already taken, so they used GDK_KP_Enter for the REAL return key
Feb 09 16:25:56 <RST38h> Sts: At that time, it made sense to them. Now, when people port desktop apps to Maemo, it no longer has any sense
Feb 09 16:26:15 <RST38h> especially considering that GDK_Return is a live minefield, mechanically
Feb 09 16:26:47 <Stskeeps> right, so why does USB keyboards work, and what reads the keyboard-attached thing?
Feb 09 16:26:49 <jaska> danger of repurposing something
Feb 09 16:27:07 <Stskeeps> so GTK starts actually normally when receiving GDK_Return
Feb 09 16:27:22 <johnx> RST38h, you have only an N810, correct?
Feb 09 16:27:36 <RST38h> johnx: Yep
Feb 09 16:27:47 <johnx> RST38h, do you know the N800 behavior we're talking about?
Feb 09 16:27:52 <RST38h> Sts: USB keyboard will work with any app that takes KP_Enter into account
Feb 09 16:28:08 <RST38h> Sts: Sorry, with any app that rakes GDK_Return into account
Feb 09 16:28:11 <RST38h> Sts: no problem there
Feb 09 16:28:47 <RST38h> Sts: The problem is that on NIT, you are better off ignoring GDK_Return for normal navigation. And once you ignore it, USB keyboards do not work
Feb 09 16:29:21 <johnx> that's actually a different problem than the one we're talking about
Feb 09 16:29:46 <RST38h> which one are you talking about?
Feb 09 16:30:17 <johnx> on the N800 when there is no physical keyboard (usb or bt) attached, hitting d-pad center (usually) brings up the fullscreen finger keyboard
Feb 09 16:30:40 <johnx> it still sends the "Return" keysym, but that never gets to the app
Feb 09 16:30:56 <johnx> again, in most cases
Feb 09 16:31:55 <johnx> this is only in text fields though
Feb 09 16:32:10 <johnx> if you have a usb/bt keyboard present hitting d-pad center will actually act like a normal "Return" key, getting you a newline in the Notes app
Feb 09 16:32:27 <RST38h> ah, what you describe must happen somewhere in gtk
Feb 09 16:32:34 <RST38h> not even in gdk
Feb 09 16:32:41 * RST38h has to go, will be back later to look at it
Feb 09 16:32:52 <johnx> alright. 'later :)
Feb 09 16:33:10 <slonopotamus> nit-bootmenu-compat - what license?
Feb 09 16:33:43 <Stskeeps> slonopotamus: bsd licensed
Feb 09 16:33:45 <Stskeeps> afaik
Feb 09 16:34:00 <Stskeeps> it is a mismatch of a lot of different peoples stuff
Feb 09 16:34:13 <slonopotamus> hmm
Feb 09 16:34:22 <Stskeeps> johnx: OK, removing HIM helps
Feb 09 16:34:24 <qwerty12> It's not actually licensed :/
Feb 09 16:34:42 <Stskeeps> johnx: as in, it works sanely
Feb 09 16:34:46 <Stskeeps> johnx: as in, removing totally as IM
Feb 09 16:36:04 <slonopotamus> you're a pirate then :)
Feb 09 16:36:21 <Stskeeps> slonopotamus: arr.
Feb 09 16:38:30 <slonopotamus> ok, easier question. nokia-tablets-pointercal license?
Feb 09 16:38:39 <Stskeeps> slonopotamus: same as xserver-omapfb one
Feb 09 16:38:43 <Stskeeps> its from there
Feb 09 16:38:47 <Stskeeps> er
Feb 09 16:38:48 <Stskeeps> Xomap, i mean
Feb 09 16:39:16 <qwerty12> woot, my dodgy hack to adv-backlight to have an display setting entry works
Feb 09 16:39:33 <slonopotamus> and Xomap is same as xorg?
Feb 09 16:39:36 <slonopotamus> arrrrgh
Feb 09 16:39:42 <slonopotamus> i hate microb
Feb 09 16:39:53 <qwerty12> it's all about webkit now :P
Feb 09 16:40:08 <slonopotamus> with its windows constantly stealing my focus
Feb 09 16:40:17 <Stskeeps> slonopotamus: xomap is the old one
Feb 09 16:45:14 <Stskeeps> hm, someone is working on HIM and cellwriter
Feb 09 16:45:43 <qwerty12> Dunno if he got far though, I remember him posting that the plugin crashes and he needs debugging help
Feb 09 16:46:42 <Stskeeps> changed 10 days ago
Feb 09 16:47:11 <slonopotamus> oops. http://gitweb.pingu.fi/?p=xf86-video-omapfb.git;a=summary they're doing something
Feb 09 16:48:52 <AndrewFBlack> to use a new xmodmap you just xmodmap mapname?
Feb 09 16:49:44 <qwerty12> yes
Feb 09 16:51:12 <Stskeeps> ~curse closed-source him
Feb 09 16:51:13 <infobot> May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, closed-source him !
Feb 09 16:51:35 <johnx> hmm? the other plugins? or the framework itself?
Feb 09 16:51:48 <Stskeeps> well i found out what does the magic now
Feb 09 16:51:49 <AndrewFBlack> wonder why xmodmap that makes FN key work on b-mans ubuntu Jaunty wont work for Mer if I'm using Lxde
Feb 09 16:52:06 <johnx> Stskeeps, it's in the plugin itself?
Feb 09 16:52:32 <Stskeeps> AndrewFBlack: possibly some strange HIM stuff..
Feb 09 16:53:17 <Stskeeps> johnx: keyboard_monitor.so observes /system/osso/af/keyboard-attached and sets hildon_im_ui_set_keyboard_state
Feb 09 16:53:20 <Stskeeps> accordingly
Feb 09 16:54:04 <Stskeeps> i so feel like making that thing a gconf option instead..
Feb 09 16:54:06 <johnx> what is 'hildon_im_ui_set_keyboard_state'? an env var?
Feb 09 16:54:23 <AndrewFBlack> ohh well I'll just stick with onscreen keyboard for now
Feb 09 16:55:02 <Stskeeps> johnx: method in HIMF
Feb 09 16:55:09 <Stskeeps> disables HIM or enables it, effectively
Feb 09 16:55:10 <Stskeeps> :P
Feb 09 16:55:31 <johnx> drrr...that's pretty kludged
Feb 09 16:55:52 <Stskeeps> Mer: Adding Sanity To Maemo But Losing Our Own
Feb 09 16:56:43 <johnx> like worshiping before the elder gods
Feb 09 17:01:49 <Stskeeps> Meiz_mer: how does your Enter key and dpad center work in Mer?
Feb 09 17:02:09 <Meiz_mer> let me try
Feb 09 17:02:17 <Meiz_mer> center works everywhere
Feb 09 17:02:25 <Meiz_mer> enter only in few apps
Feb 09 17:02:54 <Stskeeps> maemopad?
Feb 09 17:04:11 <Meiz_mer> only center work in maemopad
Feb 09 17:04:18 <Meiz_mer> works
Feb 09 17:04:28 <Stskeeps> and osso-xterm?
Feb 09 17:05:11 <Meiz_mer> only center
Feb 09 17:05:15 <Stskeeps> k
Feb 09 17:05:31 <Meiz_mer> enter was working in midori or epiphany i think...
Feb 09 17:06:18 <Meiz_mer> i just tried openoffice3.0.1..
Feb 09 17:06:21 <Meiz_mer> SLOW
Feb 09 17:06:37 <Stskeeps> hehe
Feb 09 17:08:05 <Meiz_mer> how to rightclick in kde with touchscreen?
Feb 09 17:08:08 <Meiz_mer> in mer
Feb 09 17:08:12 <Stskeeps> no clue
Feb 09 17:08:23 <Meiz_mer> maybe some mac users know...
Feb 09 17:08:56 <qwerty12> Meiz_mer, maybe you may find something in http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15282
Feb 09 17:08:56 <Meiz_mer> who are having kde 4 in their macs :P
Feb 09 17:09:02 <Meiz_mer> oh, thanks
Feb 09 17:09:49 * qwerty12 <3's dget
Feb 09 17:11:11 <Mek> Meiz_mer: in mac you can just ctrl-click, but that is handled at the OS level already
Feb 09 17:11:17 <slonopotamus> i like http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=495487 approach
Feb 09 17:11:36 <Meiz_mer> Mek, ok
Feb 09 17:11:46 <johnx> slonopotamus, question is always what level to do it at though...
Feb 09 17:12:19 <slonopotamus> johnx, lower - more apps will benefit
Feb 09 17:12:54 <johnx> lower = more universal, higher = more flexible
Feb 09 17:13:28 <slonopotamus> johnx, hmm... what  do you want to configure in right-click emulator?
Feb 09 17:14:00 <johnx> I want to be able to tap and hold without it suddenly sending a right click :)
Feb 09 17:14:34 <slonopotamus> johnx, you can't even with him
Feb 09 17:14:38 <slonopotamus> HIM
Feb 09 17:14:55 <johnx> what does an individual app like H-I-M have to do with this?
Feb 09 17:15:16 <slonopotamus> err... i mean with maemo approach
Feb 09 17:15:29 <johnx> it depends on the app to interpret in maemo
Feb 09 17:15:35 <slonopotamus> uh?
Feb 09 17:15:54 <slonopotamus> make a long left tap in microb
Feb 09 17:16:08 <slonopotamus> not right one, but long left
Feb 09 17:16:12 <johnx> apps don't receive "right click" they receive the amount of time the pointer has been held down
Feb 09 17:16:13 <slonopotamus> you can't
Feb 09 17:16:20 <slonopotamus> and?
Feb 09 17:16:27 <johnx> it's their choice what do with it
Feb 09 17:16:48 <johnx> a right click isn't necessarily what you want to happen in a sketch app when you hold the stylus down :)
Feb 09 17:17:00 <johnx> or a game
Feb 09 17:17:35 <slonopotamus> you wanna patch each and every app just because you 'want to make long left click'?
Feb 09 17:17:46 <johnx> people already patched the apps
Feb 09 17:17:52 <slonopotamus> uh?
Feb 09 17:17:59 <slonopotamus> kde, maybe?
Feb 09 17:18:14 <johnx> kde is in scope for your distribution
Feb 09 17:18:15 <Mek> I agree that by default it would make sense to send right-click to apps when you make a long left click, but allow apps to override this
Feb 09 17:18:19 <johnx> and out of scope for Mer :)
Feb 09 17:18:25 <Mek> than you only have to patch those few apps that want other behavior
Feb 09 17:18:29 <slonopotamus> huh
Feb 09 17:18:34 <slonopotamus> out-of-scope
Feb 09 17:18:38 <slonopotamus> :P
Feb 09 17:19:01 <lcuk> johnx, what you should say is "send us a patch"
Feb 09 17:19:02 <johnx> Mek, if you hack this at an X11 level you can't 'change back' at the app level (AFAICT)
Feb 09 17:19:16 <slonopotamus> Mek, you can't want to install kde on mer
Feb 09 17:19:34 <Mek> slonopotamus: hmm?
Feb 09 17:19:44 <slonopotamus> s/Mek/Meiz/
Feb 09 17:19:45 <infobot> slonopotamus meant: Meiz, you can't want to install kde on mer
Feb 09 17:19:45 <Stskeeps> slonopotamus: Meiz did already :P
Feb 09 17:19:48 <Mek> slonopotamus: (and I install kde on maemo...)
Feb 09 17:20:15 <Stskeeps> slonopotamus: http://picasaweb.google.com/meizirkki/MerOnN810#5300719098626108162
Feb 09 17:20:38 <slonopotamus> Mer itself if out of scope :) and gentoo too
Feb 09 17:20:47 <johnx> slonopotamus, I guess I shouldn't say 'out of scope' so much as we're worried about making hildon apps work as well as they can, and not interested in compromising how well they work to make KDE kinda work
Feb 09 17:21:29 <slonopotamus> johnx, ok, ok, i'm just kidding :)
Feb 09 17:22:02 <slonopotamus> i need to know license of nit-bootmenu-compat
Feb 09 17:22:03 <johnx> slonopotamus, so you're going to make sure that all apps work 100% on gentoo? :>
Feb 09 17:22:09 <lcuk> mekjohnx, that could technically be curable by having x11 itself check if the app its sending events back to is hildonized or not
Feb 09 17:22:21 <lcuk> for hildon apps have it responsing the same way as currently
Feb 09 17:22:33 <lcuk> otherwise try some alternative patched variation?
Feb 09 17:22:35 <johnx> lcuk, here it's appropriate: that's out of scope
Feb 09 17:22:49 <johnx> so we patch *every* X server we want to run on?
Feb 09 17:23:05 <lcuk> no, they do
Feb 09 17:23:26 <johnx> they patch the x server to play nice with us?
Feb 09 17:23:35 <slonopotamus> omh
Feb 09 17:23:39 <lcuk> if the kde bunch want specific desktop like reactivity then the kde install should do something itself
Feb 09 17:24:11 <slonopotamus> next step is to patch kernel so it plays well with hildon apps, i guees
Feb 09 17:24:24 <lcuk> since its not used for any of the normal maemo/mer apps its out of scope..
Feb 09 17:24:55 <slonopotamus> i thought you're building more open system than maemo
Feb 09 17:25:21 <johnx> we are
Feb 09 17:25:32 <lcuk> that is open - spending time coding something that does not need to be coded for any hildon app is out of scope for a distro with hildon as its primary..
Feb 09 17:25:53 <slonopotamus> there can't be 'out of scope'. everything is in scope if there is someone who hacks it.
Feb 09 17:26:20 <johnx> then why haven't you been working on making open office run great?
Feb 09 17:26:32 <slonopotamus> well, i don't need it
Feb 09 17:26:37 <lcuk> ...!
Feb 09 17:27:03 <johnx> I think maybe 'out of scope' was the wrong choice of words earlier on my part
Feb 09 17:27:18 <lcuk> "not my priority"
Feb 09 17:27:27 <johnx> I should have said something more like 'we're concentrating on making hildon apps work really well'
Feb 09 17:27:33 <lcuk> bbs anyway
Feb 09 17:27:41 <slonopotamus> accepted :)
Feb 09 17:29:06 <slonopotamus> looks like somepne has to  rewrite nit-bootmenu-compat?
Feb 09 17:29:16 <Stskeeps> nit-bootmenu-compat was written mostly by me.
Feb 09 17:29:29 <Stskeeps> there's a slight portion which is from one of the init scripts, the sysctl stuff
Feb 09 17:30:17 <slonopotamus> nit-boot-basics?
Feb 09 17:30:26 <Stskeeps> yeah, it came from there
Feb 09 17:30:35 <Stskeeps> im off for a bit
Feb 09 17:30:45 <t_s_o> hmm, while im a bit slow, distractions are to blame, im reading the ars article on ebooks and ran into the part about the final harry potter book being transcribed from photographs.
Feb 09 17:31:02 <t_s_o> thing is, that reminds me about the production of elephant armor in ancient india
Feb 09 17:31:11 <slonopotamus> Stskeeps, your part is 'as-is'?
Feb 09 17:31:33 <Stskeeps> bsd licensed yeah
Feb 09 17:35:39 <slonopotamus> Stskeeps, http://mirrors.usc.edu/pub/linux/distributions/gentoo/licenses/BSD orhttp://mirrors.usc.edu/pub/linux/distributions/gentoo/licenses/BSD-4 ?
Feb 09 17:35:51 <slonopotamus> woops. there was 'or'
Feb 09 17:37:03 <slonopotamus> 2-, 3- or 4-clause? :)
Feb 09 17:37:09 <Stskeeps> slonopotamus: first  one
Feb 09 17:37:36 <slonopotamus> Stskeeps, k. will use irc logs as prooflink :)
Feb 09 17:37:51 <t_s_o> heh, i love how one have to remove the selection of a text (say the url in the browser) for the onscreen keyboard to show
Feb 09 18:00:26 <timeless> hello world
Feb 09 18:00:34 <timeless> what was i trying to install a couple of hours ago? :)
Feb 09 18:02:25 <Stskeeps> something involving localization strings? ;)
Feb 09 18:04:09 <timeless> ispell
Feb 09 18:04:17 <Stskeeps> timeless: short fix to ctrl-j is rm'ing /etc/gtk-2.0/gtk.immodules btw
Feb 09 18:04:19 <Stskeeps> and reboot
Feb 09 18:04:36 <timeless> what is gtk.immodules?
Feb 09 18:04:58 <Stskeeps> it sets HIM as the input method for GTK
Feb 09 18:05:13 <timeless> and the him doesn't actually let me input fancy chars, right?
Feb 09 18:05:43 <timeless> um
Feb 09 18:05:43 <Stskeeps> well, until i make this gconf patch, it will block for Enter otherwise :P
Feb 09 18:05:50 <timeless> i think my box crashed or rebooted or something
Feb 09 18:05:57 <timeless> because i'm now staring at a console
Feb 09 18:05:58 <Stskeeps> keyboard_monitor.so which usually deals with this stuff is closed source so :)
Feb 09 18:06:25 <Stskeeps> possibly X crashing maybe
Feb 09 18:06:45 <Stskeeps> or HD exiting
Feb 09 18:06:55 <timeless> there's nothing in the console
Feb 09 18:07:03 <timeless> what alt-f would have x? 6 ? 7?
Feb 09 18:07:17 <timeless> 7 says:
Feb 09 18:07:27 <Stskeeps> it'd be in .xsession-erroors
Feb 09 18:07:29 <Stskeeps> -o
Feb 09 18:07:33 <timeless> nm-system-settings: Adding default connection 'Auto eth0' for /org/freedesktop/Hal/devices/....
Feb 09 18:07:49 <timeless> what's my password?
Feb 09 18:08:10 <Stskeeps> the one you set when it asked you in first-boot-wizard :P otherwise, root/rootme
Feb 09 18:08:20 <timeless> yeah, root/rootme worked :)
Feb 09 18:08:25 <timeless> where's xsession-errors? ~ ?
Feb 09 18:08:28 <Stskeeps> yeah
Feb 09 18:09:11 <timeless> hildon-desktop: Fatal IO error 104 (Connection reset by peer) on X server :0.0.
Feb 09 18:09:29 <timeless> sapwood-server: Fatal IO error 11 (Resource temporarily unavailable) on X server :0.0.
Feb 09 18:10:26 <timeless> what does that mean? :)
Feb 09 18:10:33 <timeless> also, what does:
Feb 09 18:10:53 <timeless> hildon-desktop[2610]: GLIB WARNING ** default - Application Application Mnaager - did not provide valid .desktop file
Feb 09 18:10:56 <timeless> mean
Feb 09 18:12:28 <timeless> ok
Feb 09 18:12:37 <timeless> /var/log/Xorg.0.log
Feb 09 18:12:42 <timeless> shows a crash of some sort
Feb 09 18:12:58 <timeless> Saw signal 11.  Server aborting.
Feb 09 18:15:44 <timeless> sp3000: food?
Feb 09 18:16:20 <pupnik> "'stimulus' plans are economic methamphetamine, not medicine" - me
Feb 09 18:17:36 <derf> Not a big Keynesian, eh?
Feb 09 18:18:30 <sp3000> timeless: maybe, eventually
Feb 09 18:18:41 * timeless kicks Mer
Feb 09 18:18:54 <sp3000> *splash*
Feb 09 18:18:57 <timeless> eh, No directory, logging in with HOME=/
Feb 09 18:19:29 <johnx> timeless, what did you do? :P
Feb 09 18:19:44 <timeless> crashed x
Feb 09 18:19:51 <timeless> so now i'm asking Mer to reboot
Feb 09 18:19:56 <timeless> and um... it's sitting at:
Feb 09 18:20:04 <timeless> [196423.532941] Restarting system,
Feb 09 18:20:10 <timeless> s/,/./
Feb 09 18:20:10 <infobot> timeless meant: [196423.532941] Restarting system.
Feb 09 18:20:19 <Stskeeps> virtualbox acting up? dunno
Feb 09 18:20:19 <timeless> finally
Feb 09 18:20:24 <timeless> vmware
Feb 09 18:20:26 <Stskeeps> ah
Feb 09 18:25:47 <timeless> ooh, enter works!
Feb 09 18:25:48 <timeless> thank!
Feb 09 18:26:03 <Stskeeps> i'm working on a better fix
Feb 09 18:29:49 <timeless> ok, problem
Feb 09 18:29:58 <timeless> i was playing a BBC "net radio" thing
Feb 09 18:30:25 <timeless> and it said
Feb 09 18:30:41 <timeless> "Connection to media stream lost.\n"
Feb 09 18:30:41 <timeless> "Try connecting again?"
Feb 09 18:30:49 <timeless> but, i was playing something from a net radio
Feb 09 18:30:53 <timeless> i don't know what a media stream is
Feb 09 18:31:59 <slonopotamus> hmm
Feb 09 18:32:19 <slonopotamus> Stskeeps, no tablet-wireless in http://repository.mer.tspre.org/pool/main/t/
Feb 09 18:33:10 <Stskeeps> hmm.
Feb 09 18:33:23 <slonopotamus> timeless, that means 'something broke'
Feb 09 18:33:47 <timeless> aww g, thanks
Feb 09 18:34:46 <slonopotamus> timeless, 'press ok and we'll try once more. if it brakes again, try more'
Feb 09 18:35:32 <slonopotamus> timeless, if it keeps braking, ask your system administrator for help
Feb 09 18:36:52 <slonopotamus> timeless, something like that :) programmers can produce either too technical or completely useless error messages :)
Feb 09 18:37:12 <timeless> slonopotamus: i gave my n800s to a couple of school age girls
Feb 09 18:37:20 <timeless> they wouldn't know what a system administrator was
Feb 09 18:37:53 <Stskeeps> slonopotamus: contrib/
Feb 09 18:37:54 <slonopotamus> timeless, maybe that should be replaced with 'ask someone smarter'?
Feb 09 18:38:02 <timeless> ...
Feb 09 18:38:05 <slonopotamus> Stskeeps, thx
Feb 09 18:38:15 <timeless> anyone here use skype (en-us, win)?
Feb 09 18:38:32 <slonopotamus> timeless, yep, not very polite
Feb 09 18:39:13 <slonopotamus> Stskeeps, hmm) the only thing in contrib
Feb 09 18:39:40 <johnx> s/something broke/go find that friend of yours. the one who's good with computers. no, not him. the other one. still have his number? yeah, call him right now/g
Feb 09 18:40:30 <slonopotamus> johnx, well, you know what that means :)
Feb 09 18:40:46 <johnx> this is why they don't let me write the error messages
Feb 09 18:44:53 <slonopotamus> rmmod cx3110x # remove initfs-provided wlan
Feb 09 18:45:04 <slonopotamus> and then insmod back
Feb 09 18:45:06 <slonopotamus> why?
Feb 09 18:45:19 <johnx> we use a different cx3110x module
Feb 09 18:45:29 <johnx> patched with linux wireless extension support
Feb 09 18:45:32 <johnx> among other things
Feb 09 18:45:38 <slonopotamus> ok
Feb 09 18:47:18 <timeless> sts: hey, when do i get a theme picker?
Feb 09 18:48:45 <timeless> what the heck
Feb 09 18:48:55 <timeless> why does numpty require libosso-email-interface?
Feb 09 18:49:02 <Stskeeps> timeless: when someone codes a CPA for it
Feb 09 18:49:11 <Stskeeps> and mailing level designs
Feb 09 18:49:28 <timeless> it's just a gconf setting, right?
Feb 09 18:50:08 <Stskeeps> theme? no, scary .osso/current-theme etc
Feb 09 18:50:59 <timeless> you mean .osso/current-gtk-theme.maemo_af_desktop ?
Feb 09 18:51:39 <Stskeeps> yeah, for instance
Feb 09 18:53:36 <timeless> is there an example of:
Feb 09 18:53:51 <timeless> zenity --list --radiolist --text=xx --column=yy this_stuff_that_i_can_not_guess ?
Feb 09 18:55:28 <johnx> http://letmegooglethatforyou.com/?q=zenity+column+example&l=1 or man zenity
Feb 09 18:56:27 <slonopotamus> oh
Feb 09 18:56:39 <slonopotamus> johnx, cool site
Feb 09 18:56:48 <Shadow__X> how do i use a ssh tunnel for traffic on maemo
Feb 09 18:57:25 * johnx heads off to bed
Feb 09 18:58:50 <timeless> it doesn't look like i can change the title of the dialog
Feb 09 18:59:17 <Stskeeps> --title?
Feb 09 18:59:23 <Stskeeps> we do it in mer
Feb 09 18:59:23 <slonopotamus> --title?
Feb 09 18:59:26 <slonopotamus> uh
Feb 09 18:59:33 <timeless> it wasn't in --help-list
Feb 09 18:59:34 <slonopotamus> sts, you were faster
Feb 09 18:59:44 <||cw> Shadow__X: install openssh
Feb 09 18:59:52 <Stskeeps> timeless: open source software and documentation are often not things that mix well
Feb 09 18:59:59 <timeless> no kidding
Feb 09 19:00:00 <Shadow__X> ||cw, already installed
Feb 09 19:00:03 * timeless is spoiled by solaris
Feb 09 19:00:07 <qwerty12_N800> timeless, it's an option generic to all types
Feb 09 19:00:11 <Shadow__X> how do i get microb to use the tunnel
Feb 09 19:00:12 <Stskeeps> my favourite example is still openssl docs
Feb 09 19:00:17 <Shadow__X> or anythong else for that matter
Feb 09 19:00:39 <slonopotamus> Shadow__x, the same way you do that for other apps
Feb 09 19:00:42 <timeless> what tunnel?
Feb 09 19:00:48 <timeless> microb supports gecko networking prefs
Feb 09 19:00:52 <timeless> including PAC
Feb 09 19:01:01 <Shadow__X> slonopotamus, how?
Feb 09 19:01:03 <Shadow__X> i am asking
Feb 09 19:01:03 <timeless> (as long as you make sure it ignores gconf networking junk)
Feb 09 19:01:04 <Shadow__X> lol
Feb 09 19:01:14 <Shadow__X> timeless how do you do that
Feb 09 19:01:18 <Shadow__X> gconf-editor?
Feb 09 19:01:24 <Shadow__X> about:config?
Feb 09 19:01:29 <timeless> about:config for the gecko stuff
Feb 09 19:01:44 <timeless> personally  i use vi /var/lib/gconf or something for the gconf stuff :)
Feb 09 19:01:45 <Shadow__X> so about config to tell microb to use the ssh tunnel
Feb 09 19:01:57 <timeless> microb wouldn't understand an 'ssh tunnel\
Feb 09 19:02:01 <||cw> Shadow__X: that's not how tunnels work...
Feb 09 19:02:04 * slonopotamus is somewhat outdated. i'd just add a route.
Feb 09 19:02:05 <timeless> it would understand "use socks please"
Feb 09 19:02:13 <timeless> and ssh supports socks (-D ?)
Feb 09 19:02:18 <Shadow__X> yeah
Feb 09 19:02:28 <timeless> use firefox, setup your socks proxy correctly
Feb 09 19:02:32 <timeless> load about:config there
Feb 09 19:02:41 <timeless> then copy the bits and set them in microb's about:config
Feb 09 19:02:43 <Stskeeps> ooh.
Feb 09 19:02:45 <Stskeeps> ze magic patch
Feb 09 19:02:58 <Shadow__X> i know i guess a better question would be how to setup socks proxy in mircrob or in maemo as a whole
Feb 09 19:03:13 <timeless> if you're using a real n800/n810, you'll probably need to set some pref to tell microb to ignore gconf
Feb 09 19:03:17 <Stskeeps> gconftool-2 -s -t bool /apps/osso/inputmethod/keyboard_available true
Feb 09 19:03:21 <Stskeeps> -> Enter works.
Feb 09 19:03:40 <sp3000> zenity's help isn't too bad
Feb 09 19:03:41 <Shadow__X> timeless, its a n810
Feb 09 19:03:50 <Stskeeps> set to false, it doesnt work
Feb 09 19:03:50 <sp3000> though I can't see how you select radios or checkboxes
Feb 09 19:03:51 <Stskeeps> woo.
Feb 09 19:03:58 <timeless> shadow: you can't setup
Feb 09 19:04:03 <timeless> socks for normal gnome stuff
Feb 09 19:04:08 <timeless> not w/ our connection manager
Feb 09 19:04:08 <sp3000> oh "true" / "false"
Feb 09 19:04:16 <Shadow__X> ah ok
Feb 09 19:05:02 <timeless> sp3000: ok, this isn't too hard to do
Feb 09 19:05:09 * timeless wonders how to find a theme's "name"
Feb 09 19:05:33 <Stskeeps> prolly in the desktop file
Feb 09 19:05:47 <timeless> what desktop file?
Feb 09 19:05:55 <qwerty12_N800_> timeless, mer or maemo?
Feb 09 19:05:59 <timeless> mer
Feb 09 19:06:03 <timeless> maemo has a theme picker
Feb 09 19:06:05 <slonopotamus> hehe
Feb 09 19:06:15 * timeless is writing one w/ zenity atm
Feb 09 19:07:18 <timeless> i think for now i'm going to assume names come from the theme directory name
Feb 09 19:07:51 <qwerty12_N800_> look at the index.theme in a given theme's folder
Feb 09 19:08:05 <Stskeeps> isnt there simply a .desktop file? :P
Feb 09 19:08:12 <timeless> what's a theme folder?
Feb 09 19:08:29 <qwerty12_N800_> Stskeeps, backgrounds, not themes
Feb 09 19:08:42 <Stskeeps> nm
Feb 09 19:08:46 <Stskeeps> qwerty12_N800_: damnit :)
Feb 09 19:09:01 <timeless> you guys are smoking something
Feb 09 19:09:05 <timeless> dpkg -L http://letmegooglethatforyou.com/?q=zenity+column+example&l=1
Feb 09 19:09:20 <timeless> it has a gtkrc, and a .so, a .la, and debian gunk
Feb 09 19:09:22 <timeless> nothing more
Feb 09 19:09:25 <timeless> err
Feb 09 19:09:35 <timeless> dpkg -L gtk2-engines-ubuntulooks
Feb 09 19:09:39 <qwerty12_N800_> timeless, grep Name /usr/share/themes/<theme>/index.theme | sed s/Name=//
Feb 09 19:09:41 <timeless> that's what provides 'Human'
Feb 09 19:10:05 <Stskeeps> timeless: dpkg -L hildon-theme-liberty is a better one :P
Feb 09 19:10:20 <Meiz_mer> what is the keycode for fullscreen key?
Feb 09 19:10:24 <timeless> ther'es no such file in Human
Feb 09 19:10:50 <Stskeeps> timeless: not sure Human qualifies as a maemo theme
Feb 09 19:11:24 <timeless> so i shouldn't list it?
Feb 09 19:11:27 <qwerty12_N800_> is there in liberty
Feb 09 19:12:32 <Stskeeps> timeless: think it would have bad effects when trying to switch to it
Feb 09 19:15:04 <Stskeeps> http://alone-in-the-light.zenvoid.org/2009/02/dependency-hell.html <- neat
Feb 09 19:16:22 <Stskeeps> kinda funny you need to build friggen openjdk to sanely rebuild a base system
Feb 09 19:16:23 <Stskeeps> :P
Feb 09 19:17:01 <opengeekv2> hey zenvoid soprry for not appearing over here in days
Feb 09 19:17:21 <opengeekv2> you have done all the hard work for the system sounds
Feb 09 19:17:24 <timeless> perl -e '@a = </usr/share/themes/*/index.theme>; %b=(); for $c (@a) { open THEME, "<", $c || next; $d=<THEME> while ($d !~ /^Name=\s*(.*)\s*$/); if ($1 ne "") { $b{$1} = $c; }; close THEME; }; $,="\n"; print %b;'
Feb 09 19:17:37 <timeless> anyone wanna tell me what's wrong there? :)
Feb 09 19:17:43 <Stskeeps> timeless: so what they say about perl is true.. it is indistinguishable from noise
Feb 09 19:18:13 <Stskeeps> and no, i can't even read it ;)
Feb 09 19:18:19 <opengeekv2> oh hi si not there sorry
Feb 09 19:18:20 <Stskeeps> opengeekv2: hehe, he's not in here right now :)
Feb 09 19:19:08 <timeless> ok
Feb 09 19:19:16 <t_s_o> i wonder what kind of sound that would made if feed to the audio chip...
Feb 09 19:19:50 <timeless> perl -e '@a = </usr/share/themes/*/index.theme>; %b=(); for $c (@a) { open THEME, "<", $c || next; do { $d=<THEME>; } while ($d !~ /^Name=\s*(.*)\s*$/); if ($1 ne "") { $b{$1} = $c; }; close THEME; }; $,="\n"; print %b;'
Feb 09 19:19:53 <timeless> actually works :)
Feb 09 19:19:55 <lcuk> i expect it will sound like a camel farting
Feb 09 19:20:22 <t_s_o> still, i dont think anything beats the perl script that outputs 99 bottles of beer, and comes in the shape of a ascii art beer bottle ;)
Feb 09 19:20:43 <timeless> personally i prefer the perl dolphin
Feb 09 19:20:48 <t_s_o> meep
Feb 09 19:21:14 <timeless> ok, so um
Feb 09 19:21:20 <lcuk> beer == better. you never hear people saying "free as in dolphin"
Feb 09 19:21:25 <timeless> how do i decide which theme is active?
Feb 09 19:21:32 <timeless> check the gtkrc file?
Feb 09 19:21:38 <timeless> or the hildon one?
Feb 09 19:21:40 <Stskeeps> timeless: the ~/.osso/current one? i guess
Feb 09 19:21:50 <timeless> there are two files
Feb 09 19:21:59 <Stskeeps> both point to same theme name i think
Feb 09 19:22:00 <timeless> current-gtk-theme{,.maemo_af_desktop}
Feb 09 19:22:05 <timeless> well, they typically do
Feb 09 19:22:13 <timeless> how little do we care about the edge case :)
Feb 09 19:22:21 <Stskeeps> honestly, im not sure how they're supposed to work. Diablo spec could be interesting to read at some point.
Feb 09 19:22:29 <Stskeeps> cos some of this stuff is just far out. :P
Feb 09 19:22:46 <timeless> you really want to read a 300 page browser ui spec that no one read?
Feb 09 19:22:49 <timeless> (including the author)
Feb 09 19:22:58 <Stskeeps> i wouldn't mind a reference.
Feb 09 19:22:59 <Stskeeps> :P
Feb 09 19:27:02 <Stskeeps> 'lo zenvoid
Feb 09 19:28:19 <timeless> would it help if i said most of it isn't accurate?
Feb 09 19:28:31 <zenvoid> Stskeeps: I saw your comment
Feb 09 19:28:49 <timeless> would you not trust me if i said the document isn't worth the paper it's printed on?
Feb 09 19:29:01 <Stskeeps> timeless: yes, of course, we're dealing with developers :P
Feb 09 19:29:07 <Stskeeps> zenvoid: yeah - i was bored the other week and put up a debian-armel buildd
Feb 09 19:29:23 <Stskeeps> it will put it up on http://repository.mer.tspre.org/lenny/
Feb 09 19:29:50 <Stskeeps> its not the prettiest way, but it would do the trick
Feb 09 19:29:55 <Stskeeps> (from UI POV)
Feb 09 19:30:33 <Stskeeps> zenvoid: 'build-l-armel' on builder, takes source packages from the repository.mer.tspre.org repo
Feb 09 19:30:33 <zenvoid> Stskeeps: I was dreaming of compiling the base system with custom cflags. Already done it for chinook, but compiling jauntly is not funny
Feb 09 19:30:43 <Stskeeps> zenvoid: yeah, i read your post :)
Feb 09 19:30:58 <zenvoid> so using debian binaries seems better idea for now
Feb 09 19:31:26 <sp3000> timeless: yeah, food
Feb 09 19:31:39 <Stskeeps> i'm at libhildon current so if you want to continue up the dependancy chain and send off the builder cmds you're welcome
Feb 09 19:31:40 <timeless> sp3000: ok
Feb 09 19:31:44 <timeless> cmoe here? :)
Feb 09 19:31:47 <Stskeeps> i just had time to waste so got it bootstrapped enough to libhildon
Feb 09 19:32:07 <Stskeeps> so glib, gtk, dbus-glib and such are already built
Feb 09 19:32:12 <timeless> sts?
Feb 09 19:32:21 <timeless> my current theme is /usr/share/themes/default
Feb 09 19:32:27 <timeless> but my named themes don't include that one
Feb 09 19:32:37 <Stskeeps> timeless: yeah.. its a symlink
Feb 09 19:32:43 <Stskeeps> hildon-desktop-env, start-hildon
Feb 09 19:32:46 <timeless> um
Feb 09 19:32:51 <Stskeeps> er, no, postinst in that
Feb 09 19:32:57 <Stskeeps> it's a bit weird, really.
Feb 09 19:33:00 <timeless> so, i'm supposed to use readlink on the directory?
Feb 09 19:33:17 <zenvoid> I will give a look, but in this moment I'm so angry with build-dependencies that I will prefer to do other things ;-)
Feb 09 19:33:25 <Stskeeps> zenvoid: hehe
Feb 09 19:33:53 <Stskeeps> zenvoid: just be glad you're not building gentoo.. :P
Feb 09 19:35:29 <timeless> sts: ok, handled
Feb 09 19:35:34 <timeless> it now knows i'm using liberty
Feb 09 19:35:42 <Stskeeps> k
Feb 09 19:35:56 <zenvoid> have anyone used cellwriter in tablets? I think it would be very good to port it as hildon input method
Feb 09 19:35:57 <Stskeeps> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mer-committers/m-r/hildon-desktop-env/files , start-hildon and debian/postinst is an interesting read
Feb 09 19:36:03 <Stskeeps> zenvoid: there's someone working on it actually
Feb 09 19:36:12 <zenvoid> Stskeeps: ahhh, ok
Feb 09 19:36:24 <Stskeeps> zenvoid: https://garage.maemo.org/projects/cellwriterhim/
Feb 09 19:38:36 <timeless> perl -e '@a = </usr/share/themes/*/index.theme>; %b=(); for $c (@a) { open THEME, "<", $c || next; do { $d=<THEME>; } while ($d !~ /^Name=\s*(.*)\s*$/); if ($1 ne "") { $b{$1} = $c; }; close THEME; }; $,="\n"; if (open THEME, "<", "/home/timeless/.osso/current-gtk-theme") { $e = <THEME>; close THEME; $e =~ s/[\n\r]+//g; $e =~ s{.* "}{};$e =~ s{/gtk-2\.0/gtkrc"}{}; $f = readlink($e) || $e;}; for $c (keys %b) { $e = $b{$c}; $e =~ s{/index\.theme}{}; next 
Feb 09 19:38:41 <timeless> \n";} '
Feb 09 19:38:52 <timeless> that code now knows your current and available themes
Feb 09 19:39:37 <slonopotamus> oh my
Feb 09 19:39:48 <qwerty12_N800_> timeless, what's your secret to staying sane as you write that? :)
Feb 09 19:40:37 <qwerty12_N800_> although you'll wanna change /home/timeless
Feb 09 19:41:04 <timeless> hrm, i think ~/ had issues
Feb 09 19:41:16 <timeless> it evolves about 1 statement at a time
Feb 09 19:45:38 <dick-richardson> I'm getting an abort error when syncing gpe with evolution via multisync: gpesyncd[4162]: GLIB ERROR ** default - file mimedir-vcard.c: line 2524 (mimedir_vcard_write_to_profile): assertion failed: (priv->fn != NULL)
Feb 09 19:46:00 <dick-richardson> how can I find which contact is #43?
Feb 09 20:06:48 <timeless> fwiw
Feb 09 20:06:53 <timeless> my theme picker is finished
Feb 09 20:06:56 <Stskeeps> woo
Feb 09 20:08:25 <timeless> how do i tell theme thing to recheck theme ?
Feb 09 20:08:51 <slonopotamus> hmm. looks like i setup some ugly git overlay
Feb 09 20:09:44 <AndrewFBlack> wow cat on computer but she wasn't talking to you guys
Feb 09 20:10:27 <timeless> she was listening to my line noise instead
Feb 09 20:11:03 <AndrewFBlack> hey using xmodmap could I remap the left control or left shift to do numbers since I don't think I will be able to get FN button to work on Mer with Lxde it isn't even seeing the FN button being pushed
Feb 09 20:13:08 <timeless> http://markmail.org/message/arrnlxvd36tyyqyq
Feb 09 20:13:28 <timeless> could someone please convert that into some scripting language supported by Maemo/Mer?
Feb 09 20:15:20 <timeless> ok, my theme switcher half works
Feb 09 20:20:31 <timeless> qwerty?
Feb 09 20:20:39 <timeless> if i gave you a script which half changes the theme
Feb 09 20:20:41 <timeless> could you finish it?
Feb 09 20:21:27 <timeless> webwizardry.net/~timeless/osso-pick-theme.pl
Feb 09 20:21:56 <qwerty12_N800> My bash scripting skills aren't plentiful, perl skills non existent :)
Feb 09 20:22:20 <timeless> you're free to use the language of your choosing
Feb 09 20:22:52 <timeless> basically the thing there reads your current theme, let's you choose another, rewrites the theme pref file(s), and switches matchbox
Feb 09 20:22:58 <timeless> it doesn't switch currently running apps
Feb 09 20:23:06 <timeless> becuase that seems to require an X/gdk message
Feb 09 20:23:09 <Stskeeps> kaltsi: happen to have your FOSDEM slides online anywhere?
Feb 09 20:24:54 <qwerty12_N800> timeless, i could take a look (can't guarantee anything concrete sorry) but your server wants to execute the script, can you tar it? :)
Feb 09 20:25:42 <t_s_o> heh, maybe you know this qwerty12_N800. how do hildon-desktop play its system sounds?
Feb 09 20:25:42 <timeless> oh
Feb 09 20:25:58 <lardman> evening
Feb 09 20:25:59 <Stskeeps> t_s_o: in the newest, libcanberra
Feb 09 20:26:20 <t_s_o> Stskeeps: newest, as in maemo5?
Feb 09 20:26:29 <Stskeeps> yeah
Feb 09 20:27:04 <qwerty12_N800> t_s_o, not sure sorry, I didn't know h-d actually played  system sounds :)
Feb 09 20:28:00 <timeless> http://www.webwizardry.net/~timeless/osso-pick-theme.zip
Feb 09 20:28:09 <timeless> sorry, using tar takes too much intelligence
Feb 09 20:28:43 <qwerty12_N800> hehe, zip works well :)
Feb 09 20:29:13 <t_s_o> never mind, some quick testing here seems to indicate its the hardware, as youamp produced the same "hiss" after stopping playback...
Feb 09 20:32:16 <lardman> hi ssvb
Feb 09 20:33:00 <p13|2nd> hello
Feb 09 20:33:01 <Stskeeps> evening p13|2nd
Feb 09 20:33:06 <p13|2nd> hi sts
Feb 09 20:33:12 <p13|2nd> reinstalling mer
Feb 09 20:33:19 <qwerty12_N800> timeless, In maemo at least, selecting cancel selects "no theme"
Feb 09 20:34:51 <lcuk> hehe lardman
Feb 09 20:34:56 <timeless> qwerty: yeah, i'll deal w/ the cancel case some other time
Feb 09 20:35:04 <timeless> the question is how to get the sytem to update the running apps
Feb 09 20:35:08 <lardman> hey lcuk
Feb 09 20:35:10 <timeless> w/o forcing the xserver to restart
Feb 09 20:35:17 <timeless> which is what i managed to do to get something
Feb 09 20:35:18 <qwerty12_N800> yeah
Feb 09 20:35:28 <lcuk> hiya simon, you have just been collared into cooking at the next summit :D
Feb 09 20:35:44 <lardman> have I? Bacon? :)
Feb 09 20:35:56 <lcuk> on the mamiling list
Feb 09 20:36:12 * lardman fires up webmail
Feb 09 20:36:42 <timeless> ok, so ... i have themes enough for me
Feb 09 20:36:55 <timeless> sts: you should be able to take what i did and get it the rest of the way
Feb 09 20:37:09 <timeless> consider my code Public domain or if necessary MIT
Feb 09 20:37:47 <Stskeeps> alright, feel free to add it to the sprint overview - there's an item regarding theme switcher
Feb 09 20:38:11 <p13|2nd> alright, are most people here that were here last time during my last appearance
Feb 09 20:38:12 <p13|2nd> ?
Feb 09 20:38:28 <p13|2nd> seems so anyway
Feb 09 20:38:34 <timeless> sts: we're hunting dinner
Feb 09 20:38:36 <Stskeeps> p13|2nd: place didn't catch fire yet ;)
Feb 09 20:38:37 <timeless> please add it :)
Feb 09 20:38:38 <Stskeeps> timeless: alright
Feb 09 20:38:46 <p13|2nd> i want to make a public statement here
Feb 09 20:38:53 <p13|2nd> to anyone i might have offended or annoyed:
Feb 09 20:39:15 <p13|2nd> I never meant to offend nor irritate anyone.  I've installed and ran mer, i'm very impressed.
Feb 09 20:39:27 <Stskeeps> p13|2nd: before you say anything your future employer may not want to see, this is publically logged :>
Feb 09 20:39:28 <p13|2nd> you are doing good work and giving these devices a future
Feb 09 20:39:40 <p13|2nd> lol
Feb 09 20:40:07 <Stskeeps> we're giving a lot of things a future :P
Feb 09 20:41:08 <lardman> lol @ email
Feb 09 20:41:38 <lcuk> i just like the way he used your full official name
Feb 09 20:43:06 <p13|2nd> the internet, it splits
Feb 09 20:49:54 <RST38h> Moo?
Feb 09 20:50:02 <p13|2nd> moo
Feb 09 20:50:13 <qwerty12_N800> baa
Feb 09 20:50:24 <RST38h> Added TI86
Feb 09 21:09:20 <AStorm> hmm, new canola...
Feb 09 21:11:41 <qwerty12_N800> timeless, if around btw, matchbox-remote expects the theme argument to be name of the folder -- not the name given in index.theme i did a dodgy workaround by adding '$f =~ tr/[A-Z]/[a-z]/;' but that is pretty stupid as it expects the theme folder name to be always lowercase...
Feb 09 21:15:23 <timelE61i> Lcuk: ping
Feb 09 21:15:57 <timelE61i> Lcuk: your .desktop file is +x, please fix
Feb 09 21:16:20 <timelE61i> So are mtetrinet and othello
Feb 09 21:16:44 <timelE61i> qwerty: try lc $f
Feb 09 21:18:06 <qwerty12_N800> ok
Feb 09 21:21:14 <Stskeeps> right, the friggen ctrl-m problem definately put to the ground now
Feb 09 21:21:48 <Stskeeps> if you have issues, apt-get update, apt-get dist-upgrade, and gconftool-2 -s -t /apps/osso/inputmethod/keyboard_available true
Feb 09 21:24:51 <RST38h> Ok, ATI85 1.1 is now in the Extras
Feb 09 21:24:57 <RST38h> This version supports TI86 as well
Feb 09 21:25:06 <Stskeeps> it needs the roms i presume?
Feb 09 21:25:16 <RST38h> no, it includes all the roms
Feb 09 21:25:33 <Stskeeps> k
Feb 09 21:25:44 <timelE61i> sounds gray or even black
Feb 09 21:25:57 <RST38h> TI does not give a damn about these particular models
Feb 09 21:26:15 <RST38h> (in fact, it does not give a damn about any of them, but these are also discontinued)
Feb 09 21:28:11 * Stskeeps restarts the mertop
Feb 09 21:28:18 <timelE61i> Discontinued products can compete w/ existing products
Feb 09 21:28:23 <timelE61i> What's mertop?
Feb 09 21:28:38 <kaltsi> Stskeeps: hey hey, I can put the slides up to the garage site tomorrow, now I'm going to sleep zzz
Feb 09 21:28:45 <Stskeeps> kaltsi: alright, nini :)
Feb 09 21:28:50 <Stskeeps> timeless: my oldass 1ghz VIA c3 laptop running x86 mer :P
Feb 09 21:29:09 <timelE61i> Hey, has anyone here had the mer menus go berserk?
Feb 09 21:29:25 <timelE61i> I can't see application manager or control panel
Feb 09 21:29:58 <timelE61i> And my extras menu has emptyish slots between items
Feb 09 21:31:03 * timelE61i dances
Feb 09 21:31:13 * timelE61i finally found the gtk colorpicker
Feb 09 21:31:57 <lcuk> timelE61i, whats +x? execute?
Feb 09 21:36:36 <Stskeeps> you know, maemo could actually do as a netbook distro.
Feb 09 21:39:23 <Vulcanis> eh
Feb 09 21:39:26 <Vulcanis> maybe a netbook tablet
Feb 09 21:39:35 <Vulcanis> everything's too big for a mouse >.<
Feb 09 21:39:59 <timelE61i> yes
Feb 09 21:39:59 <Stskeeps> i mean, on my Mertop i can view my screen from 100m.
Feb 09 21:40:00 <Stskeeps> :P
Feb 09 21:40:12 <Vulcanis> well
Feb 09 21:40:15 <Vulcanis> its a netbook
Feb 09 21:40:19 <Vulcanis> it should not be 100m away from you
Feb 09 21:40:24 <Stskeeps> hehe
Feb 09 21:40:40 <timelE61i> lcuk: yes
Feb 09 21:41:10 <timelE61i> Does the guy from mypaint irc?
Feb 09 21:41:41 <qwerty12_N800> Maemo port or upstream author?
Feb 09 21:42:43 <timelE61i> Port
Feb 09 21:42:53 <timelE61i> The menus and dialogs are icky
Feb 09 21:43:12 <timelE61i> And the app fails if there's no pressure on your mouse
Feb 09 21:43:16 <qwerty12_N800> ~seen anders_gud
Feb 09 21:43:17 <infobot> anders_gud <n=anders@h194n1fls32o883.telia.com> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 178d 23h 39m 9s ago, saying: 'bye'.
Feb 09 21:43:38 <Stskeeps> hmm, everything in extras is also i386 built isnt it?
Feb 09 21:43:39 <Stskeeps> or mostly
Feb 09 21:43:39 <qwerty12_N800> not anymore it seems :)
Feb 09 21:43:47 <qwerty12_N800> Stskeeps, yer
Feb 09 21:44:31 * Stskeeps goes try some vaguely insane thing
Feb 09 21:44:32 <Stskeeps> s
Feb 09 21:44:47 <qwerty12_N800> I find it a waste of time for most things but I've refrained from making arch: armel for my things :)
Feb 09 21:45:05 <Stskeeps> its most excellent for being able to install stuff into mer i386 ;)
Feb 09 21:46:10 <Stskeeps> .. why is apt-worker running at 1427% and why doesnt XP run apps over 100%
Feb 09 21:46:10 <Stskeeps> :P
Feb 09 21:48:05 <timelE61i> xp can
Feb 09 21:48:07 <RST38h> All right, ready
Feb 09 21:48:17 <timelE61i> It an app is well threaded
Feb 09 21:49:54 <mavhc> linux is way more efficient, proof at last
Feb 09 21:50:15 <qwerty12_N800> Stskeeps, do you know if gtk-perl works well in mer?
Feb 09 21:50:44 <Stskeeps> err..
Feb 09 21:50:53 <Stskeeps> no clue. it may need recompiling to match the bindings
Feb 09 21:50:57 <Stskeeps> i had issues with pygtk initially
Feb 09 21:52:01 <qwerty12_N800> bollocks
Feb 09 21:53:43 <Stskeeps> damnit, i-am-free doesnt insert nicely ;)
Feb 09 21:54:00 <timelE61i> ?
Feb 09 21:54:15 <Stskeeps> the silly "i am rich" clone in extras :P
Feb 09 21:54:45 <timelE61i> ??
Feb 09 21:55:02 <Stskeeps> http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22698
Feb 09 21:56:24 <lcuk> and timelE61i its not over here
Feb 09 21:56:27 <lcuk> lemme dig deeper
Feb 09 21:57:00 <Stskeeps> woo \o/
Feb 09 21:57:03 <Stskeeps> Mauku works on Mer
Feb 09 21:57:13 <timelE61i> Mer
Feb 09 22:00:23 <Stskeeps> we really need to figure out what freaks out maemo-select-location
Feb 09 22:01:06 <Stskeeps> aisleriot..
Feb 09 22:02:39 <timeless> stskeeps; oh, that's easy
Feb 09 22:02:47 <timeless> well, basically for the console flavor
Feb 09 22:03:00 <timeless> hildon apps do not do well w/o the env vars all properly set
Feb 09 22:03:38 <Stskeeps> hmm
Feb 09 22:03:53 <Stskeeps> isn't it launched through dbus?
Feb 09 22:04:09 <timeless> not if it's in a postinst script
Feb 09 22:04:18 <timeless> which is how it is in the normal apt case
Feb 09 22:04:25 <timeless> (from a console)
Feb 09 22:04:28 <Stskeeps> ah - im installing through HAM now though
Feb 09 22:04:38 <Stskeeps> and its stalling
Feb 09 22:04:40 <timeless> yeah, that side, i dunno
Feb 09 22:04:46 <timeless> afaict, it's always hanging
Feb 09 22:04:57 <qwerty12_N800> You sure it's not maemo-launcher messing around?
Feb 09 22:05:26 <qwerty12_N800> (if the Mer one uses it, maemo one does)
Feb 09 22:05:30 <Stskeeps> always a possibility..
Feb 09 22:07:37 <thopiekar_N800> qwerty12_N800: did you ever had issues with your device?
Feb 09 22:07:50 <thopiekar_N800> like mine with the screen?
Feb 09 22:08:26 <qwerty12_N800> issues is a bit general & I have no idea what your screen problem us
Feb 09 22:08:31 <qwerty12_N800> s/us/is/
Feb 09 22:08:32 <infobot> qwerty12_N800 meant: issues is a bit general & I have no idea what your screen problem is
Feb 09 22:09:19 <thopiekar_N800> thanks infobot xP
Feb 09 22:11:13 <thopiekar_N800> qwerty12_N800: i mean, whether it was needed to send it in to nokia because of hadware problems..
Feb 09 22:11:20 * Stskeeps eyes a liqbase in extras
Feb 09 22:11:41 <qwerty12_N800> I've never sent my tablet back to nokia.
Feb 09 22:12:12 <thopiekar_N800> so no screen problems etc?
Feb 09 22:12:54 <zenvoid> I wonder why I have 2 app laucher plugins at the left panel...
Feb 09 22:12:56 <lcuk> Stskeeps, theres been a liqbase in extras all along
Feb 09 22:13:00 <Stskeeps> zenvoid: known issue
Feb 09 22:13:07 <qwerty12_N800> Nope. calibration is a little weird but that's only after getting pissed off at browserd and smashing my tablet against the wall
Feb 09 22:13:27 <Stskeeps> lcuk: damnit, canvas XSP raw mouse init failed :P
Feb 09 22:13:34 <zenvoid> Stskeeps: ok, thanks :) is there a bug database somewhere?
Feb 09 22:13:52 <lcuk> heh
Feb 09 22:13:57 <Stskeeps> we have bugs.maemo.org product Mer, and the sprints and release page note them
Feb 09 22:13:59 * thopiekar_N800 wonders why his tablet gets fuc**d up..
Feb 09 22:14:00 <lcuk> do you want the new build which compiles for x86?
Feb 09 22:14:14 <lcuk> and gcc4
Feb 09 22:14:22 <lcuk> and has a prettier titlebar
Feb 09 22:14:44 <thopiekar_N800> or could it be a driver issue?
Feb 09 22:15:02 <Stskeeps> thopiekar_N800: i think i saw new weird stuff with the new Xomap once
Feb 09 22:15:07 <Stskeeps> a little like yours
Feb 09 22:15:12 <lcuk> Stskeeps, to build it, in the makefile - remove "-lXsp and remove the -DUSEMAEMO
Feb 09 22:15:22 <thopiekar_N800> maybe flashing could fix it..
Feb 09 22:15:28 <lcuk> it will probably still fail though
Feb 09 22:15:53 <RST38h> qwerty: I can't believe you did THAT!
Feb 09 22:16:11 <RST38h> qwerty: Smashing your preciousss against the wall? Horror!
Feb 09 22:16:45 <qwerty12_N800> it was driving me crazy, what was I to do? :p
Feb 09 22:17:04 * qwerty12_N800 isn't known for keeping things in good condition
Feb 09 22:17:04 <RST38h> qwerty: smack your cat with a flipper?
Feb 09 22:17:22 <Stskeeps> wb daperl
Feb 09 22:17:43 <qwerty12_N800> RST38h, heh, maybe not :p
Feb 09 22:18:05 <daperl> just making sure I have xchat setup
Feb 09 22:20:30 <thopiekar_N800> so i should reflash my device before sending it in ?
Feb 09 22:21:34 <Stskeeps> thopiekar_N800: probably
Feb 09 22:21:45 <Stskeeps> test if it continues afterwards
Feb 09 22:21:58 <thopiekar_N800> ok..
Feb 09 22:25:52 <thopiekar_N800> lcuk:  seems that you are from germany right?
Feb 09 22:26:40 <thopiekar_N800> liqbase uses a map of berlin..
Feb 09 22:27:09 <Stskeeps> wb wazd2
Feb 09 22:27:32 <wazd2> hey)
Feb 09 22:27:45 <wazd> Watching Grammy :)
Feb 09 22:29:46 <lcuk> thopiekar_N800, no, im from manchester england. i put the map in there because i went to the summit.  the first time i went to berlin (for linuxtag) i got lost on the trains and was terrified of not having a way home
Feb 09 22:30:01 <lcuk> so i used the map on liqbase to study whilst i was writing the pic panning code
Feb 09 22:31:02 <thopiekar_N800> aah ok :D
Feb 09 22:37:13 <thopiekar_N800> good night
Feb 09 22:40:17 * thopiekar_N800 is away: <away|from|tablet>
Feb 09 22:52:35 <Corsac> onion: hey, is “mapper” still maintained?
Feb 09 22:53:26 <Corsac> on the n810 I don't seem to be able to search for addresses, I tried to build it on my box but it doesnt finish, I corrected one or two errors myself but there are more, so I'm wondering
Feb 09 22:54:08 <Lamo> my browser on my nokia n810 has become unbearably slow for some reason. Is there anyway to reinstall it? or maybe speed it somehow? im using adblock and flash bock with it only.
Feb 09 22:58:11 <qwerty12_N800> Stskeeps, can you test http://trac.tspre.org/qwerty12/_GTK_READ_RCFILES_test & see if it doesn't segfault in mer?
Feb 09 22:58:48 <wazd> whoa, Plant kicked youth's ass :)
Feb 09 22:58:51 <wazd> nice)
Feb 09 23:04:09 <Stskeeps> qwerty12_N800: sorry, already in bed
Feb 09 23:04:43 <qwerty12_N800> heh, no problems :). found a python snippet that does the same thing
Feb 09 23:05:44 <qwerty12_N800> If i combine that (and it works) with timeless's stuff, we may have a theme switcher of sorts
Feb 09 23:07:53 <Stskeeps> sounds good
Feb 09 23:08:37 <lardman> does anyone happen to know if a GStreamer pipeline is always in a separate thread to the main() fn?
Feb 09 23:09:07 <qwerty12_N800> Stskeeps, do we have vmware images btw?
Feb 09 23:10:03 <Stskeeps> yessir
Feb 09 23:10:07 <Stskeeps> vmdk
Feb 09 23:11:35 <qwerty12_N800> wicked, thanks :). i'll grab tomorrow for my windows vmware install, having no wifi on my N800 has put a dampener on testing in Mer on N800 :)
Feb 09 23:11:44 <Stskeeps> hehe
Feb 09 23:11:56 <Stskeeps> vmdk is great testing in
Feb 09 23:12:20 <Stskeeps> as its mostly same code running
Feb 09 23:13:13 <qwerty12_N800> and all i want to do is get a python & perl script running :)
Feb 09 23:13:19 <Stskeeps> hehe
Feb 09 23:23:29 <Sargun> they wiped my baby.
Feb 09 23:24:42 <Sargun> They being nokia repair, and my baby being my n810
Feb 09 23:44:42 <lcuk> whats the best dictation software for maemo
Feb 10 00:20:39 <Macer> yeah.. i think ij ust gave up on using this popcornhour for anything but watching movies
Feb 10 00:28:37 <AndrewFBlack> Hello
Feb 10 00:46:25 <Sargun_Screen> I must ask why did they flash my tablet with chinook
Feb 10 00:47:58 <Sargun_Screen> they're eevil, they are plotting against me.
Feb 10 00:49:41 <Macer> hm
Feb 10 00:49:54 <Macer> i don't think there is an infrastructure client for esxi for osx yet
Feb 10 00:49:56 <Macer> that sucks
Feb 10 01:14:09 <Thanatermesis> what repositories i should use if i want to have all the possible packages avilable ?
Feb 10 01:18:06 <GeneralAntilles> Thanatermesis,
Feb 10 01:18:07 <GeneralAntilles> ~extras
Feb 10 01:18:08 <infobot> from memory, extras is http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras
Feb 10 01:19:11 <alan_peery> This article is probably relevant: http://maemo.org/community/council/on_repositories/
Feb 10 01:20:43 <lcukx41> does bot know what liqbase is yet?
Feb 10 01:20:58 <GeneralAntilles> ~liqbase
Feb 10 01:22:21 <lcuk> oo
Feb 10 01:33:17 <Thanatermesis> GeneralAntilles, so there's only "one" real extra's repository ? i have needed to add a lot of repositories in a oldest version of maemo
Feb 10 01:37:10 <GeneralAntilles> Thanatermesis, now you don't.
Feb 10 01:37:13 <GeneralAntilles> That was our goal. :)
Feb 10 01:49:47 <Macer> 3 days?hm
Feb 10 01:53:01 <timeless> gan: i think i put up a new forjx
Feb 10 02:06:16 <Macer> fusion is pretty good
Feb 10 02:06:32 <Macer> at least it runs.. that's always a treat
Feb 10 02:06:34 <Macer> heh
Feb 10 02:23:09 <GeneralAntilles> lol . . . the ODF viewer for OS X's shortcuts are all ctrl-*
Feb 10 02:23:21 <GeneralAntilles> and it wont open the stupid Tracker presentation.
Feb 10 02:25:17 <GeneralAntilles> They can't expect anybody to take them seriously with support this shitty.
Feb 10 02:25:47 <GeneralAntilles> and of course OOo Aqua is 404
Feb 10 02:27:22 <GeneralAntilles> High-larious
Feb 10 02:44:21 <disco_stu> GeneralAntilles: how are you man
Feb 10 02:44:28 <disco_stu> GeneralAntilles: long time since we dont talk
Feb 10 02:45:01 <GeneralAntilles> Hey, disco_stu.
Feb 10 02:45:10 <GeneralAntilles> Frying chicken. :P
Feb 10 02:45:35 <disco_stu> GeneralAntilles: i eat KFC on this holidays
Feb 10 02:45:41 <disco_stu> ate*
Feb 10 02:46:31 <disco_stu> still.. we are not used to eat chicken fried..
Feb 10 02:47:03 <disco_stu> GeneralAntilles: i've trying to send sms through my phone using my n800
Feb 10 02:47:08 <disco_stu> GeneralAntilles: still no luck
Feb 10 02:47:41 <GeneralAntilles> disco_stu, that'd be one feature that'd be really nice to have working well.
Feb 10 02:47:46 <GeneralAntilles> CallerID, handsfree, sms, etc.
Feb 10 02:48:58 <disco_stu> GeneralAntilles: some people succeed using phonelink
Feb 10 02:49:13 <disco_stu> GeneralAntilles: but with my two phones.. it wont work
Feb 10 02:54:11 <disco_stu> GeneralAntilles: do you twitt ?
Feb 10 02:57:51 <GeneralAntilles> disco_stu, no.
Feb 10 02:57:59 <GeneralAntilles> Jaiku very infrequently.
Feb 10 02:58:29 <disco_stu> GeneralAntilles: so.. whats new over here ?
Feb 10 02:59:18 <GeneralAntilles> Not much, really.
Feb 10 02:59:21 <GeneralAntilles> Mer progress.
Feb 10 02:59:44 <disco_stu> GeneralAntilles: thats what i've heard..
Feb 10 02:59:53 <disco_stu> GeneralAntilles: will definitely try it
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Feb 10 02:59:57 2009