**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Feb 16 02:59:58 2009
Feb 16 05:11:49 <slonopotamus> morning
Feb 16 05:18:58 <befr0d_> hi
Feb 16 05:56:04 <slonopotamus> oh my. is there any tool to find unused includes in C programs?
Feb 16 05:57:24 <slonopotamus> i was fingting with cx3110x-module that wanted to include a file that i didn't have. and guess  what? it doesn't need it.
Feb 16 08:10:27 <StsN801> heh, danish translation of facebook fail.. button on another persons page saying 'slå op', which means 'break up' in context of a person or relationship.. or 'look up', which is what they probably meant
Feb 16 08:12:54 * X-Fade is back
Feb 16 08:14:48 <StsN801> hehe, hope you had a good week off:)
Feb 16 08:15:17 <X-Fade> Oh, yes. Plenty of snow ;)
Feb 16 08:16:23 <StsN801> similar here.. then again, shoveling snow is better for your mental health than system administration
Feb 16 08:16:53 <X-Fade> Well, I was skiing, so that is the more pleasant way of dealing with snow :)
Feb 16 08:17:18 <StsN801> hehe, indeed
Feb 16 08:48:45 <Jaffa> Morning, all
Feb 16 08:49:48 <Stskeeps> morning Jaffa
Feb 16 08:52:50 <Stskeeps> i seriously wonder what the heck caused ubuntu to drop 30mb in compressed size
Feb 16 08:56:39 <Macer> awesome
Feb 16 08:57:08 <Stskeeps> mm?
Feb 16 08:57:50 <Macer> just finished making a new dns and shell box
Feb 16 08:57:59 <Macer> well.. dns and shell VMs ;)
Feb 16 08:58:10 <Meiz_n810> Stskeeps: 0.8 today?
Feb 16 08:58:12 <Meiz_n810> you can ssh to my tablet if needed
Feb 16 08:58:26 <Stskeeps> Meiz_n810: yes, want an image to dl while you're at school? (not snowed in i presume?)
Feb 16 08:58:48 <Stskeeps> well, that or apt-get dist-upgrade
Feb 16 08:59:03 <Stskeeps> i found out what caused it not to autodetect, yesterday, so
Feb 16 08:59:12 <Meiz_n810> yes, gimme a new image
Feb 16 08:59:16 <Meiz_n810> :)
Feb 16 08:59:18 <Stskeeps> k
Feb 16 09:00:57 <Stskeeps> this image just came out of the oven so i am testing it right now too
Feb 16 09:04:57 <Stskeeps> Meiz_n810: quiver looks -nice-
Feb 16 09:04:59 <Stskeeps> who made that_
Feb 16 09:05:24 <Meiz_n810> Stskeeps: i like it too, no idea who made it
Feb 16 09:05:28 <qwerty12_N800> it's closed source :/
Feb 16 09:05:44 <andre__> Stskeeps, ubuntu size drop - which version?
Feb 16 09:05:54 <Stskeeps> andre__: jaunty
Feb 16 09:06:16 <Stskeeps> well, i noticed our images suddenly dropped 30mb in compressed size
Feb 16 09:06:23 <X-Fade> Stskeeps: Maybe artwork or some documentation?
Feb 16 09:06:34 <Stskeeps> possible
Feb 16 09:06:41 <timeless> hello world
Feb 16 09:06:43 <Stskeeps> or they removed some insane dependancy
Feb 16 09:06:43 <timeless> x-fade?
Feb 16 09:06:47 <timeless> i'm looking for string help
Feb 16 09:06:49 <andre__> i know that we removed lots of unused images cruft from the evolution user docs e.g. :)
Feb 16 09:06:50 <X-Fade> timeless: here..
Feb 16 09:06:51 <Stskeeps> like, let's say, libgweather for network manager
Feb 16 09:06:58 <timeless> open browser settings, second tab
Feb 16 09:07:16 <luke-jr> how is the 3D performance on N810?
Feb 16 09:07:22 <timeless> there's an option which basically means "if you uncheck this, most pages you try to load will give you a useless error message"
Feb 16 09:07:27 <RST38h> Any news from MWC?
Feb 16 09:07:34 <Stskeeps> luke-jr: software rendering.
Feb 16 09:07:40 <Stskeeps> RST38h: don't think it's just yet
Feb 16 09:07:47 <luke-jr> Stskeeps: yeah, I know that.. but how is it? :x
Feb 16 09:07:55 <RST38h> Sts: http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/16/live-from-nokias-mwc-2009-press-conference/
Feb 16 09:07:58 <X-Fade> timeless: Connection tab?
Feb 16 09:08:05 <timeless> yep
Feb 16 09:08:39 <X-Fade> timeless: 3 options: Homepage addres, Use default homepage and enable automatic redirection.
Feb 16 09:08:52 <timeless> x-fade: we're going to try
Feb 16 09:09:03 <timeless> "Enable Web Redirects\n(Disabling will break most websites)"
Feb 16 09:09:23 <X-Fade> Ah ;)
Feb 16 09:09:44 * Stskeeps tries to boot 0.8
Feb 16 09:10:55 <timeless> x-fade: i've made a new forjx if you want to try :)
Feb 16 09:11:25 * Stskeeps wonders why rsa key generation is so much slower than dsa key generation
Feb 16 09:11:42 <X-Fade> timeless: Maybe later, I'm trying to plow through a one week email backlog ;)
Feb 16 09:13:32 <Stskeeps> RST38h: http://events.nokia.com/mwc/home.htm
Feb 16 09:16:24 <Stskeeps> hardware time
Feb 16 09:17:36 <jeremiah> Good Morning all. :)
Feb 16 09:19:53 <Stskeeps> morning, first day at work ;)
Feb 16 09:20:29 <RST38h> Sts: ! Does not load though
Feb 16 09:20:34 <RST38h> moo wazd
Feb 16 09:20:46 <Stskeeps> RST38h: watching though
Feb 16 09:20:53 <Proteous> me tooo
Feb 16 09:21:02 <jeremiah> Stskeeps: Exactly. :)
Feb 16 09:21:03 <Proteous> booorrinnngggg
Feb 16 09:21:05 <wazd> hohoho)
Feb 16 09:21:06 * RST38h forgot to mention the so called "flash video" as an entry in the list of his hate subjects
Feb 16 09:21:09 <wazd> Christmas time!
Feb 16 09:21:16 <wazd> http://events.nokia.com/mwc/home.htm
Feb 16 09:21:19 <Proteous> stop talking about lotas notes
Feb 16 09:21:24 <Proteous> lotus
Feb 16 09:21:34 <RST38h> Sts: Anything new?
Feb 16 09:21:38 <Stskeeps> wazd: not yet
Feb 16 09:21:38 <Proteous> not yet
Feb 16 09:21:45 <Stskeeps> wazd: it is even snowing outside
Feb 16 09:21:46 <Proteous> *snore*
Feb 16 09:22:45 * Jaffa 's not holding his breath
Feb 16 09:22:50 <RST38h> Ok, Engadget has got the plain text log
Feb 16 09:22:54 <Proteous> good, you'd have passed out by now
Feb 16 09:25:51 <Proteous> new phone
Feb 16 09:25:52 <wazd> nice
Feb 16 09:25:55 <wazd> E55
Feb 16 09:26:26 <Proteous> seems we are moving back to T9...
Feb 16 09:26:36 <Proteous> the broken english is killing me
Feb 16 09:26:40 <wazd> wht, full qwerty :)
Feb 16 09:26:42 <Stskeeps> a month of standby time?
Feb 16 09:26:43 <Stskeeps> wtf
Feb 16 09:26:57 <Stskeeps> is it fuel cell powered? :P
Feb 16 09:27:26 <wazd> nice phone
Feb 16 09:27:34 <timeless> proteous: what broken English?
Feb 16 09:27:41 <RST38h> bleah
Feb 16 09:27:46 <Stskeeps> timeless: en_FI? ;)
Feb 16 09:27:54 <RST38h> half-a-keyboard, quarter-a-screen
Feb 16 09:27:54 <Proteous> lol
Feb 16 09:28:11 <timeless> sts: that's what i think when i see broken English
Feb 16 09:28:17 <timeless> just wondering if that's what he meant
Feb 16 09:28:22 <wazd> ok, tablet's time))
Feb 16 09:28:23 <Stskeeps> en_DA is worse
Feb 16 09:28:40 <timeless> is that Danish English?
Feb 16 09:28:41 <wazd> hah))\
Feb 16 09:28:50 <Stskeeps> hah, messing up product numbers
Feb 16 09:28:59 <timeless> ?
Feb 16 09:29:10 <wazd> I always said that nokia n*** system is stupid)
Feb 16 09:29:14 <Stskeeps> he went n95->n97,e75
Feb 16 09:29:21 <Proteous> I hate phones with full keyboards and tiny ass screens
Feb 16 09:29:43 <Stskeeps> timeless: yes, horrible accented danish english
Feb 16 09:29:49 <wazd> he's pretty nervous :)
Feb 16 09:29:49 * RST38h likes E75, but has said so before
Feb 16 09:30:10 <timeless> um
Feb 16 09:30:16 <timeless> don't google images for e75
Feb 16 09:30:22 <timeless> at least, not at work
Feb 16 09:30:24 <Proteous> lol
Feb 16 09:30:30 <qwerty12> haha
Feb 16 09:31:21 <Proteous> better then the E71?
Feb 16 09:31:28 <RST38h> yes
Feb 16 09:31:34 <RST38h> E71 has got tiny little keys
Feb 16 09:31:42 * timeless likes the e61i
Feb 16 09:31:54 * Proteous likes the n97
Feb 16 09:32:14 <Stskeeps> prices aren't that bad so far
Feb 16 09:32:32 <Proteous> the dollars to euros ratio sucks nowdays
Feb 16 09:32:40 <Proteous> so they look pretty expensive to me :)
Feb 16 09:32:43 <RST38h> didn't it for the last n years?
Feb 16 09:32:47 <Proteous> heh
Feb 16 09:32:49 <Stskeeps> no, not ovi :(
Feb 16 09:33:07 <Proteous> nice tie
Feb 16 09:33:11 <RST38h> Is "ovi" a finnish word for "enema"?
Feb 16 09:33:14 <wazd> ok, boring time)
Feb 16 09:33:22 <timeless> Door[k]
Feb 16 09:33:27 <Proteous> heh
Feb 16 09:33:32 <RST38h> 375 euros for E75
Feb 16 09:33:47 <RST38h> for this price, they should have at least installed a bigger screen
Feb 16 09:34:45 <aquatix> RST38h: "ovi" isn't plural voor "egg" or something?
Feb 16 09:35:06 <aquatix> hm, what will the N97 be?
Feb 16 09:35:59 <RST38h> aquatix: that is Latin, I think
Feb 16 09:36:36 <aquatix> RST38h: that was my hunch
Feb 16 09:37:08 <Proteous> ass applications have gone mainstream
Feb 16 09:37:16 <Proteous> who knew?
Feb 16 09:37:18 <RST38h> aquatix: it is singular too, plural will be something like "ovae"
Feb 16 09:38:00 <Stskeeps> Meiz_n810: progress on dl?
Feb 16 09:38:03 <wazd> aaaah, stop the lecture please :(
Feb 16 09:38:26 * RST38h wonders what happens when the "services" bubble pops
Feb 16 09:38:32 <Proteous> *PAUSE FOR NO APPLAUSE
Feb 16 09:38:38 <RST38h> Poor Nokia will take a huge hit
Feb 16 09:38:57 <Stskeeps> sometimes i wonder how finns can even sell stuff.. not much passion in the voice at all
Feb 16 09:39:12 <Stskeeps> (yes, im biased, dated a finnish girl for some years :P)
Feb 16 09:39:16 <Proteous> heh
Feb 16 09:39:18 <RST38h> wazd: On the other hand, maybe MTS can somehow sell them their logo, at heavy discount =)
Feb 16 09:39:34 <wazd> RST38h: xD\
Feb 16 09:39:46 <Proteous> WE ARE SO INOVATIVE!! WE ARE TOTALY NOT BEHIND BOTH APPLE AND ANDROID!
Feb 16 09:39:53 <Proteous> OUR STORE IS TOTALY DIFFERNT
Feb 16 09:40:17 <wazd> Proteous: NOWAI?! DID HE SAID THAT?!!1
Feb 16 09:40:20 * Jaffa just can't understand device/marque-specific services like Ovi trying to be social.
Feb 16 09:40:36 <Proteous> social is the way to go for everything
Feb 16 09:40:40 <RST38h> Jaffa: it is the buzzword. they have to follow the buzzwords.
Feb 16 09:40:47 <Proteous> even my breakfast cereal is socal nowdays
Feb 16 09:40:58 <Proteous> so are my pants
Feb 16 09:41:01 <RST38h> As I said, when this crap pops, they will be up for a rude awakening
Feb 16 09:41:05 <Jaffa> Device-tie in doesn't work. I'm not going to choose my friends based on the device they have.
Feb 16 09:41:07 <Meiz__n810> Stskeeps: what was the trick needed for Fn?
Feb 16 09:41:20 <Stskeeps> Meiz__n810: oh boy. it doesn't detect?
Feb 16 09:41:20 <jeremiah> Actually I think there is some room for innovation and growth around mobile phone social apps.
Feb 16 09:41:28 <jeremiah> Could be interesting.
Feb 16 09:41:32 <Stskeeps> Meiz__n810: (you in mer 0.8 image now?)
Feb 16 09:41:39 <X-Fade> Stskeeps: How's Mer on beagle running nowadays?
Feb 16 09:41:45 <Meiz__n810> Stskeeps: yes, Fn didn't work automatically
Feb 16 09:42:11 <Stskeeps> Meiz__n810: excuse my french, but, fuck. try setxkbmap -model nokiarx44 -layout fisenoda
Feb 16 09:42:20 <Meiz__n810> ookay
Feb 16 09:42:30 <Stskeeps> X-Fade: boots and shows on screen. I dont have a powered usb hub so i cannot test input devices
Feb 16 09:42:33 <Stskeeps> but should be easily bootable
Feb 16 09:42:41 <Stskeeps> X-Fade: 0.8 will have beagleboard release too
Feb 16 09:43:38 <X-Fade> Stskeeps: Nice.
Feb 16 09:44:05 <Stskeeps> Meiz__n810: works with fn now?
Feb 16 09:45:21 <RST38h> "The service can recommend the best of where you are." So it's recommending Spanish podcasts, Spanish lessons, and Lonely Planet content based on the phone's presence in Barcelona."
Feb 16 09:45:32 <RST38h> Are we all supposed to be impressed or what?
Feb 16 09:47:06 <Stskeeps> RST38h: it is a lot more difficult to impress computer scientists who have seen this stuff in research labs for years..
Feb 16 09:47:35 <glass> Stskeeps: crappy cs:ists are very easy to impress though because they don't see outsides of their lab..
Feb 16 09:47:43 <Stskeeps> glass: yes, of course
Feb 16 09:47:43 <Proteous> you don't have to be a research scientist to find it boring
Feb 16 09:48:10 <RST38h> Sts: What if I want a Tiger lillies album while in Barcelona?
Feb 16 09:48:20 <RST38h> Sts: Or an obscure book?
Feb 16 09:48:30 <Proteous> maybe the figure if they keep telling us that this is the next generation it will actualy be true
Feb 16 09:48:31 <RST38h> Sts: Can it guess that?
Feb 16 09:48:43 <Stskeeps> RST38h: nop, and it is probably meant to be an assistant, not a wizard
Feb 16 09:48:59 <RST38h> Sts: Stupid assistants are fired.
Feb 16 09:49:04 <wazd> ok, no tablet
Feb 16 09:49:09 <Stskeeps> then again, last.fm does it quite nicely
Feb 16 09:49:11 <RST38h> Sts: BTW, stupid wizards are burned at a stake
Feb 16 09:49:30 <Proteous> "She turned me into a newt!"
Feb 16 09:49:34 <Meiz_n810> Stskeeps: works now, after that command
Feb 16 09:49:34 <Proteous> "A newt?"
Feb 16 09:49:39 <Proteous> "Well, I got better"
Feb 16 09:49:41 <Stskeeps> Meiz_n810: lovely. lshal me
Feb 16 09:58:18 <Stskeeps> Meiz_n810: otherwise, how does it work?
Feb 16 10:01:04 <wazd> boring(
Feb 16 10:01:46 <Stskeeps> yup
Feb 16 10:02:15 <wazd> let's wait for tommorow's Olli-Pekka Kallasvuo keynote
Feb 16 10:02:20 <oli> morning :)
Feb 16 10:02:46 <wazd> hello)
Feb 16 10:03:25 <RST38h> wazd: Are they gonna announce more stuff?
Feb 16 10:03:28 <RST38h> Mmmm
Feb 16 10:03:29 <Stskeeps> Meiz_n810: i think i'm going to verify that VMDK works and say that this image is the 0.8 - Fn ability is reachable and we can provide it as an update
Feb 16 10:03:51 <Stskeeps> since the HAL information is already a package
Feb 16 10:03:58 <Meiz_n810> Stskeeps: is it ok, if i lshal later? i'm on maemo now.
Feb 16 10:04:06 <Stskeeps> Meiz_n810: yes, it's fine
Feb 16 10:04:18 <wazd> RST38h: if they won't announce new tablet on MWC it would be epic fail
Feb 16 10:05:11 <Stskeeps> i kinda think n97 is the new tablet, but that is me..
Feb 16 10:05:27 <wazd> Stskeeps: it's omap2
Feb 16 10:05:37 <wazd> Stskeeps: I doubt :)
Feb 16 10:05:41 <qwerty12> Stskeeps, it's also s60, fremantle would kinda be a waste then...
Feb 16 10:06:06 <Stskeeps> qwerty12: well, think of it environmentally, able to put both firmwares on..
Feb 16 10:06:14 <Stskeeps> .. or something
Feb 16 10:06:17 * Stskeeps goes back to testing mer
Feb 16 10:06:40 <qwerty12> Stskeeps, a device shipped with a locked down system of sorts and with a open system?
Feb 16 10:06:53 <qwerty12> The two don't really go together
Feb 16 10:07:48 <Stskeeps> qwerty12: well, if you can boot two different kinds of firmware images? :P
Feb 16 10:08:42 <Stskeeps> morning, lcuk
Feb 16 10:08:42 <qwerty12> Stskeeps, that's what I'm saying though, I don't think that's going to happen due to symbian being locked down. It's odd to ship a locked device but say ok then, you can put maemo on it and have it open
Feb 16 10:08:47 <RST38h> wazd: Not an epic fail of course, but a bad sign
Feb 16 10:09:00 <Stskeeps> qwerty12: maybe
Feb 16 10:09:01 <lcuk> hey Stskeeps good mornin
Feb 16 10:09:25 <RST38h> wazd: As I said yesterday (and got GeneralAntilles angry), as far as customers are concerned, 5800/N97 *are* the next tablets
Feb 16 10:09:44 <lcuk> qwerty12, but but but but didnt nokia pay off their partners so they COULD open it up
Feb 16 10:10:25 <RST38h> wazd: And NITs are more like a semiexperimental product, akin to the first PDAs
Feb 16 10:10:45 <lcuk> they are a hardware platform more akin to the beagleboards..
Feb 16 10:10:51 <qwerty12> lcuk, that's not for a few years and signing still exists on the 5800 and N97 is gonna run the same version of s60
Feb 16 10:10:57 <lcuk> waiting for the right software to be sat on them :)
Feb 16 10:11:12 <lcuk> fair enough
Feb 16 10:11:15 <RST38h> Why is everybody so concerned about signing?
Feb 16 10:11:27 <qwerty12> RST38h, it says a lot about the openness
Feb 16 10:11:37 <RST38h> Do you know that you can SELF-SIGN S60 apps and get pretty much all the features you need?
Feb 16 10:11:45 <Stskeeps> RST38h: ability to repurpose my tablets if need be
Feb 16 10:11:53 <lcuk> signing is a legit way to do QA in a distributed environment
Feb 16 10:12:36 <qwerty12> RST38h, lemme know when you can self sign your way to AllFiles permission
Feb 16 10:13:27 <lcuk> qwerty12, you know FAR too much about everything nokia, are you a secret adaptive technodrone?
Feb 16 10:13:46 <lcuk> the AI for the next gen system? :D
Feb 16 10:13:58 <lcuk> (note, i said AI like ali g)
Feb 16 10:14:09 <qwerty12> lcuk, nope, I just used to be on the nokia warez sites a lot :)
Feb 16 10:15:15 <lcuk> on'tday entionmay ethay arezway itessay
Feb 16 10:15:31 <RST38h> qwerty: But why do you need allfiles?
Feb 16 10:15:52 <RST38h> qwerty: Your application needs anything from C:\bin or what?
Feb 16 10:16:06 <lcuk> to be able to replace the sign checking app with a bare stump
Feb 16 10:16:27 <lcuk> or to include your own wardialer
Feb 16 10:16:30 <RST38h> how useful is this for a normal user?
Feb 16 10:16:46 <qwerty12> RST38h, it's nice to be able to browse files from C:\system to change things like op logo like I could do in symbian 6.1
Feb 16 10:16:49 <lcuk> did qwerty EVER assert he was a normal user?
Feb 16 10:17:09 <qwerty12> RST38h, like I say, it says a lot about the openness
Feb 16 10:17:24 <RST38h> lcuk: Well, I have been talking about S60 from the point of view of a normal user or a regular app developer
Feb 16 10:17:41 <RST38h> lcuk: Self signing is sufficient for 99% of these
Feb 16 10:17:53 <qwerty12> RST38h, go on any warez site and see the amount of n00bs trying to get help to sign x-plore so they can get access to the full filesystem
Feb 16 10:17:56 <lcuk> i tend to agree
Feb 16 10:18:28 <lcuk> RST38h, its like 99% would be ok with html dev and a bit of python scripting
Feb 16 10:18:45 <lcuk> how well would your emulator work on iphone by the way.. ?
Feb 16 10:18:55 <RST38h> lcuk: not really, you can do lots of native stuff with self signed
Feb 16 10:19:09 <RST38h> lcuk: No idea, have never been interested in iphone
Feb 16 10:19:10 <lcuk> i understand that, but thats the effect
Feb 16 10:19:24 <RST38h> lcuk: Do notice that iPhone restrictions have nothing to do with S60 restrictions
Feb 16 10:19:32 <RST38h> lcuk: very, VERY different
Feb 16 10:19:44 <RST38h> qwerty: Well, do not go to warez sites
Feb 16 10:19:54 <lcuk> no, but its restrictions all the same.  neither of you can get at the core lowest level to code how you want
Feb 16 10:19:56 <RST38h> qwerty: You steal stuff -> you suffer.
Feb 16 10:19:58 <lcuk> you hit a barrier
Feb 16 10:20:09 <RST38h> lcuk: I can with S60
Feb 16 10:20:17 <RST38h> lcuk: No problem at all
Feb 16 10:20:19 <Stskeeps> Symbian is much about the DRM isn't it_
Feb 16 10:20:25 <qwerty12> RST38h, too late for that :>, but even tons of people who don't know shit want allfiles (dunno if they want it for fun)
Feb 16 10:20:29 <Stskeeps> which is probably why it is difficult to do AllFiles
Feb 16 10:20:35 <RST38h> lcuk: Can even get screen buffer address and screw with it however I want
Feb 16 10:20:41 <lcuk> cool, you and lots may be ok, but there are some who resent the barrier
Feb 16 10:20:50 <RST38h> qwerty: If you do not know shit, you do not need allfiles
Feb 16 10:21:05 <RST38h> qwerty: Maybe you *think* you need it because someone told you, but you really don't
Feb 16 10:21:31 <RST38h> lcuk: Groundless resentment is not a valid argument.
Feb 16 10:21:46 <lcuk> why isnt it? its what real people out there do
Feb 16 10:21:46 <RST38h> Sts: I have yet to meet DRM in Symbian =)
Feb 16 10:22:03 <RST38h> lcuk: Yes, it is what 1% of S60 users do
Feb 16 10:22:12 <RST38h> lcuk: Remaining 99% do not care
Feb 16 10:22:17 <qwerty12> *I* need it because I hack all my phones, but I can't claim symbian to be open when you have to beg symbiansigned for a cert to sign your shit
Feb 16 10:22:18 <lcuk> agreed entirely
Feb 16 10:22:46 <Stskeeps> qwerty12: OLPC isn't entirely open either, heh
Feb 16 10:22:49 <lcuk> qwerty12, do you have to present your shit in a little clear plastic bag? or do you just take a photo of it in the bowl?
Feb 16 10:22:51 <RST38h> qwerty: Now, their "openness" claims are somewhat overblown :)
Feb 16 10:23:09 <RST38h> But for all practical purposes, they are open enough
Feb 16 10:23:58 <lcuk> RST38h, just like in linux a "user" without root permissions can do lots, but there are some situations where root is wanted, especially in a home machine
Feb 16 10:24:00 <RST38h> lcuk: See, there are people who drill their skulls and people who hang themselves from huge metal hooks
Feb 16 10:24:21 <RST38h> lcuk: It is called "diversity"
Feb 16 10:24:49 <RST38h> lcuk: Nobody arrests them or anything, but nobody cares about them either
Feb 16 10:24:52 <lcuk> RST38h, yeah, trepanation sounds relaxing actually
Feb 16 10:25:34 <RST38h> lcuk: So, when I hear another "OSS advocate" ramble about evil Symbian signing process, I just idly wonder if he knows what he is talking about
Feb 16 10:26:05 <RST38h> There is a well defined set of apps you can't do due to Symbian signing and it is very small and eclectic
Feb 16 10:26:34 <lcuk> i used to as well, but i honestly thought it had already changed, is signing going to go away on existing devices once they open it up, or is this opening up not backwards compatible
Feb 16 10:26:38 <qwerty12> But that "1%" is still there, laying claim to the fact that it isn't open
Feb 16 10:26:40 <RST38h> Pretty much only realy useful thing you can't do is the file type recognizers, due to an architectural mistake in Symbian
Feb 16 10:27:13 <RST38h> qwerty: As I said, skull drillers are also here, but who gives a fuck?
Feb 16 10:27:32 <qwerty12> Fuck them, I'm talking about symbian
Feb 16 10:27:46 <RST38h> IBM made a 32nm Cortex, hehe
Feb 16 10:27:51 <lcuk> thats like the wookie defense
Feb 16 10:36:51 <wazd> http://www.htc.com/www/
Feb 16 10:37:04 <wazd> htc updated the site too early))
Feb 16 10:37:47 <timeless> timeless.justdave.net/maemo/setalarm.png
Feb 16 10:37:54 <timeless> anyone have thoughts about the 'Select' button?
Feb 16 10:41:01 <X-Fade> timeless: 'Set alarm' :)
Feb 16 10:41:35 <X-Fade> Hmm what is that select used for anyway?
Feb 16 10:41:52 <X-Fade> Shouldn't that be OK and Cancel?
Feb 16 10:42:50 <Jaffa> X-Fade: it's "Browse" the the "Sound" box isn't it?
Feb 16 10:43:54 <X-Fade> Jaffa: I guess so, very confusing as the sound thing is a select box already?
Feb 16 10:44:30 <timeless> right
Feb 16 10:44:34 <timeless> is 'choose' better?
Feb 16 10:44:50 <timeless> remember i'm testing Diablo apps w/ Fremantle hildon in VMWare using my strings
Feb 16 10:45:02 <timeless> (running Mer of course)
Feb 16 10:45:27 <timeless> do i need 'Custom sound' ?
Feb 16 10:50:32 <GeneralAntilles> lol . . . everybody gets hyped up over an announcement we pretty much knew wasn't coming here then is disappointed and worried.
Feb 16 10:50:43 <timeless> ?
Feb 16 10:50:46 <timeless> what's this?
Feb 16 10:50:54 <timeless> btw, why don't i have a map in my clock?
Feb 16 10:51:06 <GeneralAntilles> timeless, can you fix the "updating repositories" string in h-a-m?
Feb 16 10:51:14 <timeless> i have /usr/share/icons/hicolor/scalable/hildon/qgn_indi_worldmap.jpg
Feb 16 10:51:24 <timeless> gan: i believe so, what should it say?
Feb 16 10:51:44 <qwerty12> timeless, tried gtk-update-icon-cache -f /usr/share/icons/hicolor ?
Feb 16 10:52:16 <GeneralAntilles> Now it says "Checking for updates; please wait"
Feb 16 10:52:16 <qwerty12> Actually, dunno if the map image is cached
Feb 16 10:52:16 <GeneralAntilles> At the very least, "please wait" should be dropped
Feb 16 10:52:18 <timeless> ok
Feb 16 10:52:27 <timeless> yeah, definitely my string
Feb 16 10:52:30 <GeneralAntilles> "Updating application catalog..." was what I was thinking
Feb 16 10:52:42 <timeless> are you sure it's only used in one place?
Feb 16 10:52:47 <timeless> (source is open, you can check)
Feb 16 10:52:57 <timeless> hildon-application-manager-l10n-enus1/po/en_US.po:msgstr "Checking for updates; please wait"
Feb 16 10:52:58 <timeless> hildon-application-manager-l10n-enus1/po/en_US.po:msgstr "Preparing to install; please wait"
Feb 16 10:53:29 <GeneralAntilles> I mean, we've got a  dialog with a progress bar
Feb 16 10:53:33 <GeneralAntilles> can't we assume we're waiting?
Feb 16 10:53:38 <timeless> is 'application catalog' the user's catalog?
Feb 16 10:53:46 <timeless> as opposed to the catalogs the user told the app about?
Feb 16 10:54:17 <timeless> msgstr "Updating application catalog"
Feb 16 10:54:21 <timeless> msgstr "Preparing to install"
Feb 16 10:56:05 <GeneralAntilles> Application catalog is what's used in the menu.
Feb 16 10:56:13 <timeless> qwerty: tried, no good
Feb 16 10:56:26 <qwerty12> odd
Feb 16 10:56:57 <timeless> gan: ok, i've changed them locally, repacking
Feb 16 10:57:29 <GeneralAntilles> It'd be nice if we could have it display what catalog it's updating.
Feb 16 10:57:39 <timeless> file a bug
Feb 16 10:57:49 <timeless> but keep in mind that some versions of apt clients do multiple concurrently
Feb 16 10:57:59 <timeless> that's well beyond my powers
Feb 16 10:58:16 <timeless> odd
Feb 16 10:58:25 <timeless> ham can't reach my internal repo
Feb 16 10:58:30 <qwerty12> Stskeeps, if I get powerlaunch running in Mer, would it be a help? I need a way to reboot without taking my battery out (sudo reboot takes too long for me - yes, I'm lazy)
Feb 16 10:58:54 <Stskeeps> qwerty12: yes, of course
Feb 16 10:59:00 <Stskeeps> even minimal functionality
Feb 16 11:00:05 <jeremiah> Hello Niels!
Feb 16 11:00:17 <X-Fade> Our new debmaster speaks :)
Feb 16 11:00:20 <timeless> qwerty/et al
Feb 16 11:00:25 <timeless> wait, debmaster, where?
Feb 16 11:00:37 <timeless> i was just going to ask for someone to explain diversions
Feb 16 11:00:38 <jeremiah> Hi X-Fade, Have seen your name around the wiki and stuff. :)
Feb 16 11:00:49 <timeless> how do ithey work? :)
Feb 16 11:00:51 <jeremiah> timeless: Can't you start with easier questions?
Feb 16 11:00:52 <GeneralAntilles> X-Fade, how was vacation?
Feb 16 11:01:02 <GeneralAntilles> X-Fade, the site managed not to fall to pieces while you were out. ;)
Feb 16 11:01:03 <timeless> jeremiah: when someone installs my package, they get better strings
Feb 16 11:01:08 <X-Fade> GeneralAntilles: Lots of snow and no broken bones..
Feb 16 11:01:09 <timeless> when they uninstall them, they have no strings
Feb 16 11:01:10 <timeless> why? :)
Feb 16 11:01:19 <timeless> (easier question, presumably the same answer)
Feb 16 11:01:35 <X-Fade> GeneralAntilles: I monitored it every once in a while, but did no actual work ;)
Feb 16 11:01:46 <jeremiah> timeless: When you say strings - can you be more specific?
Feb 16 11:02:00 <jeremiah> What programming language for example?
Feb 16 11:02:06 <timeless> jeremiah: do you have diablo-extras enabled for your device?
Feb 16 11:02:12 <timeless> and have you backed it up recently?
Feb 16 11:02:21 <timeless> err diablo extras-devel
Feb 16 11:02:23 <timeless> sorry :)
Feb 16 11:02:28 <jeremiah> timeless: Heh, no not yet. I will be working on an environment today.
Feb 16 11:03:25 <jeremiah> But describe the issue and I will try to reporduce it.
Feb 16 11:04:02 <timeless> um, do you have any devices? :)
Feb 16 11:04:11 <timeless> open application manager
Feb 16 11:04:43 <GeneralAntilles> http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/diablo/free/source/l/language-support-translations-enus1/
Feb 16 11:04:51 <timeless> click the app title to open the app menu
Feb 16 11:05:02 <timeless> gan: i doubt that'll do anything useful
Feb 16 11:05:11 <timeless> remember ham won't do dependencies for a .deb
Feb 16 11:05:18 * timeless kicks ham in the pork
Feb 16 11:05:27 <GeneralAntilles> timeless, right, but we at least know what we're talking about now. ;)
Feb 16 11:05:35 <GeneralAntilles> I'd rather it didn't resolve .deb dependencies
Feb 16 11:05:45 <GeneralAntilles> We don't want to encourage people to toss around random .debs.
Feb 16 11:05:46 <timeless> anyway, in the menu, click tools>application catalog(ue)
Feb 16 11:05:57 <GeneralAntilles> Packages should be distributed through repositories.
Feb 16 11:06:14 <jeremiah> timeless: How do you know this is happening in the packaging process? (Not to say it is not.)
Feb 16 11:06:15 <timeless> if you're using en-GB, you're going to eventually (soon) need to switch to en-US (we'll talk that through later, but tell me now)
Feb 16 11:06:25 <timeless> i wrote the debs? :)
Feb 16 11:06:39 <jeremiah> okay, good reason . . .
Feb 16 11:07:01 <timeless> in catalogs you probably will see a diablo extras repo
Feb 16 11:07:04 <timeless> it's probably disabled
Feb 16 11:07:13 <timeless> since i'm lazy, we'll hijack it, click it, click edit
Feb 16 11:07:33 <timeless> in the address, change extras to extras-devel
Feb 16 11:07:38 <timeless> and uncheck the disabled button
Feb 16 11:07:56 <timeless> now you'll want to close the dialog chain
Feb 16 11:08:04 <timeless> it should update your catalog
Feb 16 11:08:07 <qwerty12> Or use the install here: https://garage.maemo.org/extras-assistant/install/extras-devel.install
Feb 16 11:08:22 <timeless> oh sure, make life easy for him
Feb 16 11:08:25 * timeless sighs
Feb 16 11:08:33 <timeless> where i came from, we only had a pen and paper
Feb 16 11:08:45 <qwerty12> :P
Feb 16 11:08:48 <timeless> we couldn't even erase :)
Feb 16 11:09:02 <jeremiah> heh
Feb 16 11:09:19 <timeless> anyway, however you install extras-devel, is up to you
Feb 16 11:09:33 <timeless> you could use /etc/apt/sources.list[.d/whatever] for all i care
Feb 16 11:09:57 <timeless> i'm just pretending i don't know anything about *garage and have something like a device in front of me
Feb 16 11:10:05 <timeless> (i really know very little about garage)
Feb 16 11:10:06 <jeremiah> timeless: When you say "better" what do you mean? Easier to read?
Feb 16 11:10:18 <timeless> jeremiah: i'll let someone else describe that
Feb 16 11:10:30 <timeless> anyway, from here, in ham, select 'browse installable applications'
Feb 16 11:10:34 <timeless> i think that's whatit's called
Feb 16 11:10:40 <timeless> then click the binoculars
Feb 16 11:11:08 <timeless> enter 'US English' and click ok
Feb 16 11:11:13 <timeless> you should get one result
Feb 16 11:11:16 <GeneralAntilles> So, NVIDIA is shipping a $99 Tegra-based (600, so, ARM11) MID sometime in 2010?
Feb 16 11:11:39 <timeless> gan: interesting
Feb 16 11:12:06 <timeless> jeremiah: at this point, you can browse through the tabs, find out that i'm the author, read the description, perhaps read the dependencies
Feb 16 11:12:21 <timeless> (although you need red pill mode iirc to read dependencies, if you don't know about red pill mode, i'm sure a bot will explain it)
Feb 16 11:12:23 <GeneralAntilles> The price is optimistic, I think, but the hardware is going to be way behind the curve by that point.
Feb 16 11:12:36 <timeless> gan: soudns good
Feb 16 11:12:45 <GeneralAntilles> jeremiah, "better" meaning more like proper English and less like gibberish.
Feb 16 11:12:46 <timeless> so it should ship overbudget and underpower
Feb 16 11:13:01 <jeremiah> aha
Feb 16 11:13:43 <timeless> gan: you can grab a new .zip now :)
Feb 16 11:14:15 <timeless> jeremiah: anyway, have you installed it, contemplated installing it, or...?
Feb 16 11:14:26 <timeless> btw, i'm sorry i didn't see you @fosdem
Feb 16 11:14:31 <timeless> i could have given you a demo :)
Feb 16 11:14:31 <jeremiah> timeless: Have not installed it, but will install it and take a look
Feb 16 11:14:38 <jeremiah> timeless: Yeah, me too.
Feb 16 11:14:49 <timeless> anyway, are you using en-US or en-GB right now?
Feb 16 11:14:56 <timeless> if you're using US, you'll just need to reboot
Feb 16 11:14:59 <GeneralAntilles> jeremiah, you order your N810 yet?
Feb 16 11:15:05 <jeremiah> timeless: Yep, US
Feb 16 11:15:13 <timeless> ok
Feb 16 11:15:26 <jeremiah> GeneralAntilles: I asked for one, I am not sure of the status
Feb 16 11:15:31 <timeless> anyway, basically, if you're ever silly enough to try to uninstall the package
Feb 16 11:15:40 <jeremiah> I suppose I should go out and buy one ASAP. :)
Feb 16 11:15:40 <timeless> you'll find your UI has no real 'words'
Feb 16 11:16:05 <timeless> the reason is that i'm using Replaces because of the way the packages are designed
Feb 16 11:16:13 <timeless> in Diablo, each app has one package for all localizations
Feb 16 11:16:23 <GeneralAntilles> timeless, if the packaging can't be fixed, maybe it'd be easier to install it as a separate locale?
Feb 16 11:16:26 <timeless> and I'm only shipping enus, not the other 15 locales
Feb 16 11:16:39 <timeless> gan: nope :)
Feb 16 11:16:42 <timeless> definitely not easier
Feb 16 11:16:46 <timeless> locales are disasters as is
Feb 16 11:16:59 <timeless> i could make a thing which creates a backup in a preinst stage
Feb 16 11:17:02 <wazd> GeneralAntilles: 99$ tegra mid is from the same story as 10$ notebook I think
Feb 16 11:17:08 <timeless> and then when it uninstalls it could restore that
Feb 16 11:17:32 <GeneralAntilles> I wonder if there'll be any proper Linux-support spillover from Android-support for Tegra.
Feb 16 11:17:49 <jeremiah> timeless: So you are not using po files?
Feb 16 11:18:07 <timeless> jeremiah: um, not particularly relevant
Feb 16 11:18:16 <jeremiah> okay
Feb 16 11:18:28 <timeless> internally nokia uses .xml files and .po files and .dtd files and binary drops
Feb 16 11:18:50 <timeless> what's shipped to users are .xml files, .dtd files, and .mo files
Feb 16 11:19:03 <timeless> sometimes we'll even ship a enGB file as enUS
Feb 16 11:19:11 <timeless> just to add insult to injoury
Feb 16 11:19:32 <timeless> but the issue is that the package container has 16 locales
Feb 16 11:19:41 <timeless> and as a vendor, i'm only vending a subset for each package
Feb 16 11:20:39 <jeremiah> A subset of one or two languages . . .
Feb 16 11:20:45 <timeless> 1/16
Feb 16 11:21:06 <timeless> eventually localizers are free to try to get the other 15 right by starting w/ my locale and translating
Feb 16 11:21:10 <timeless> but before they do that
Feb 16 11:21:17 <timeless> we'd need to get this issue fixed
Feb 16 11:21:19 <RST38h> General,wazd: What is all this tlak about Tegra?
Feb 16 11:21:29 <timeless> while i am confident that my strings are better than what nokia ships
Feb 16 11:21:45 <timeless> i can imagine another localizer doing something wrong and having a customer uninstall their package(s)
Feb 16 11:21:45 * RST38h thought Tegra was experimental, no connection to reality yet
Feb 16 11:22:02 <GeneralAntilles> RST38h, see Engadget.
Feb 16 11:22:04 <timeless> if they uninstall them and end up w/ nothing (or something indistiguishable from it), then the customer is in trouble
Feb 16 11:22:05 <GeneralAntilles> Nothings changed, really.
Feb 16 11:22:35 <jeremiah> timeless: right
Feb 16 11:22:57 * timeless ponders
Feb 16 11:23:05 <timeless> gan, so the sound chooser says 'Select sound'
Feb 16 11:23:11 <timeless> someone suggested 'Select a sound'
Feb 16 11:23:56 <timeless> gtk20-l10n-enus1/po/en_US.po:msgstr "Select A File"
Feb 16 11:24:10 <jeremiah> timeless: I'm going to need to take a closer look to see what is happening, I can't see the mechanism from the package side atm
Feb 16 11:24:21 <jeremiah> Let me dig a little . . .
Feb 16 11:24:39 * timeless eyes gtk askance
Feb 16 11:25:08 <timeless> jeremiah: my guess is that Alternatives or whatever that thing is are what i need
Feb 16 11:25:22 <timeless> lcars uses it to replace the nokia boot logo
Feb 16 11:25:29 <RST38h> General: Also, there are persistent rumors that NVidia is working on an x86 compatible chip
Feb 16 11:26:19 * jeremiah looks at Alternatives indebian
Feb 16 11:26:26 <GeneralAntilles> RST38h, so I've heard
Feb 16 11:26:37 <RST38h> HTC Touch Pro 2...hmmmm...
Feb 16 11:26:43 <RST38h> Can it run Unix?
Feb 16 11:27:06 <RST38h> Wait, Touch Diamond 2 is also using 800x480 display
Feb 16 11:27:07 <timeless> hrm
Feb 16 11:27:07 <timeless> gan?
Feb 16 11:27:10 <timeless> any idea what
Feb 16 11:27:13 <timeless> msgid "ai_ti_select_location"
Feb 16 11:27:13 <timeless> msgstr "Select location"
Feb 16 11:27:16 <timeless> msgid "ai_ia_select_location"
Feb 16 11:27:16 <timeless> msgstr "Select location for application"
Feb 16 11:27:18 <timeless> are for?
Feb 16 11:27:37 <RST38h> Poor Nokia
Feb 16 11:28:00 <timeless> oh
Feb 16 11:28:04 <timeless> that's select-menu-location
Feb 16 11:28:29 <timeless> which doesn't wfm in ham in Mer
Feb 16 11:28:49 <jeremiah> timeless: This URL might be useful if you want to use "Alternatives" http://www.debian-administration.org/articles/91
Feb 16 11:29:16 <jeremiah> But I am not sure it addresses your issue
Feb 16 11:29:36 <qwerty12> At a guess, dpkg-divert?
Feb 16 11:30:05 <jeremiah> Ah, replacing files with dpkg-divert?
Feb 16 11:30:32 <GeneralAntilles> I hope this isn't totally ignored for Fremantle: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3822
Feb 16 11:30:40 <qwerty12> I've never actually used it so I don't know the specifics but it seems to keep the original files :)
Feb 16 11:30:43 <GeneralAntilles> I'd just as soon see select-menu-location gone.
Feb 16 11:31:54 <jeremiah> qwerty12: It shouldn't actually. If I remember correctly. I used it once a while back, a bit of a hack.
Feb 16 11:32:43 <jeremiah> What happens is that dpkg refuses to install the package if it writes over a specific type of file,  you have to tell it that you want to do that.
Feb 16 11:32:55 <qwerty12> ah :/
Feb 16 11:33:41 <timeless> jeremiah: so, dpkg-divert sounds interesting
Feb 16 11:33:43 <timeless> but um
Feb 16 11:34:00 <timeless> it'd help if someone provided a real example
Feb 16 11:34:02 <jeremiah> Yeah, how does it address _your_ issue?
Feb 16 11:34:40 <jeremiah> Both these steps can be achieved with one command. For example assume we wish to replace the gcc command to cause it to add "-O2" to all compilation jobs we'd run the following command as root:
Feb 16 11:35:11 <jeremiah> dpkg-divert --add --rename --divert /usr/bin/gcc.real /usr/bin/gcc
Feb 16 11:35:43 <jeremiah> So if you have to change XML files or whatnot, you can use a call to dpkg-divert in your debian rules file
Feb 16 11:36:00 <jeremiah> dpkg-divert --add --rename --divert /usr/bin/gcc.real /usr/bin/gcc
Feb 16 11:36:08 <jeremiah> Sorry,
Feb 16 11:36:11 <jeremiah> http://www.debian-administration.org/articles/118
Feb 16 11:36:18 <jeremiah> ^^ A useful link
Feb 16 11:37:08 <timeless> http://pastebin.mozilla.org/625046
Feb 16 11:37:50 <timeless> jeremiah: sorry, i need instructions in the form of cookie cutter DEBIAN/files
Feb 16 11:38:02 <timeless> not random commands a hypothetical expert end user could run
Feb 16 11:38:06 <timeless> i'm someone who doesn't care
Feb 16 11:38:20 <timeless> and the localizers who will follow in my footsteps will care even less :)
Feb 16 11:38:33 <timeless> if we can't fill in a blank, it won't happen :)
Feb 16 11:38:34 <jeremiah> Right.
Feb 16 11:39:06 <timeless> gan: i'm changing Select location* => Select menu*
Feb 16 11:39:13 <timeless> because 'location' has other meanings
Feb 16 11:39:19 <timeless> and it's totally stupid here
Feb 16 11:40:01 <timeless> yeah, ok
Feb 16 11:40:04 <timeless> this is almost doable
Feb 16 11:40:14 <timeless> wonderful
Feb 16 11:40:16 <timeless> i need 4 files
Feb 16 11:40:26 <timeless> {pre,post}{inst,rm}
Feb 16 11:42:25 <timeless> http://timeless.justdave.net/maemo/dpkg-divert-demo/DEBIAN/
Feb 16 11:42:31 <timeless> i'll use that as a starting point
Feb 16 11:42:53 <jeremiah> I'll check that out.
Feb 16 11:43:07 <timeless> there are source debs for my packages somewhere
Feb 16 11:43:14 <timeless> if you could try to put together a demo for one of them
Feb 16 11:43:24 <timeless> preferably such that i can easily c+p for the other 63 packages
Feb 16 11:43:26 <timeless> that'd be great
Feb 16 11:43:35 <timeless> we're really talking about ~64 packages
Feb 16 11:43:38 <jeremiah> timeless: I am happy to work on that today.
Feb 16 11:43:41 <timeless> so things should be *dead simple*
Feb 16 11:43:44 <timeless> otherwise, => no go
Feb 16 11:43:55 <timeless> having to s/r lots of files is fail
Feb 16 11:43:58 <timeless> thanks
Feb 16 11:44:04 <timeless> anyway, enjoy the strings
Feb 16 11:44:11 <jeremiah> s/r ? Do you mean substitute remove?
Feb 16 11:44:13 <timeless> if you wnat bleeding, gan can share 0.1.2pre's url
Feb 16 11:44:15 <timeless> search/replace
Feb 16 11:44:21 <jeremiah> ah
Feb 16 11:44:43 <jeremiah> Can you fire off an email to jeremiah@maemo.org so we can also continue off of IRC?
Feb 16 11:45:49 <timelE61i> sp3000 @ lunch?
Feb 16 11:46:09 <jeremiah> Mmmm lunch!
Feb 16 11:46:21 <jeremiah> I am going to get some for myself. :)
Feb 16 11:47:41 <X-Fade> Good idea.
Feb 16 11:48:32 * aquatix already had some
Feb 16 11:48:38 <aquatix> enjoy!
Feb 16 11:51:27 <wazd> making favorite rock songs as alarm was really bad idea
Feb 16 11:52:04 <wazd> Just listened to it and kept sleeping :)
Feb 16 11:52:40 <wazd> Have to get some uber-thrash russian pop
Feb 16 11:52:52 <qwerty12> Next tablet should come with a shock prodder
Feb 16 11:52:54 * GeneralAntilles just listens to the radio.
Feb 16 11:53:20 <wazd> qwerty12: fire alarm horn :)
Feb 16 11:53:49 <qwerty12> hehe, probably have the same effect as the rest of my family wake up to beat the shit out of me :P
Feb 16 12:20:25 <wazd> What you will see next from Maemo 5 is the complete alpha SDK with the UI framework, but not the lead device.
Feb 16 12:20:29 <wazd> goddamn
Feb 16 12:21:41 <Jaffa> wazd: where did you read that?
Feb 16 12:21:51 <wazd> http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=264787#post264787
Feb 16 12:22:24 <Jaffa> Ah cool.
Feb 16 12:28:32 <wazd> Well, I still wait for maemo 5 ui tomorrow)
Feb 16 12:28:41 <GeneralAntilles> Don't hold your breath.
Feb 16 12:28:49 <wazd> goddamn!
Feb 16 12:28:57 <wazd> Screw you guys, I'm going home(
Feb 16 12:29:07 <X-Fade> GeneralAntilles: One should never hold their breath for one day ;)
Feb 16 12:29:10 <GeneralAntilles> Yeah, we suck!
Feb 16 12:29:35 <X-Fade> No matter what is announced the next day. Or not..
Feb 16 12:29:39 <GeneralAntilles> X-Fade, well, you never know, there's always the chance you could end up breaking a world record.
Feb 16 12:29:39 <wazd> I'm tired of waiting (
Feb 16 12:29:50 <GeneralAntilles> wazd, STFU.
Feb 16 12:29:55 <GeneralAntilles> I've been waiting since 2007. :P
Feb 16 12:30:17 <GeneralAntilles> I was expecting an OMAP3 tablet when the _N810_ was announced. . . .
Feb 16 12:30:30 <wazd> GeneralAntilles: hah)
Feb 16 12:31:09 * Jaffa wants new toys
Feb 16 12:31:18 <GeneralAntilles> Jaffa, at least you have an N810.
Feb 16 12:31:32 <wazd> GeneralAntilles: I want to make software, even thoug World of Goo is awesome game)
Feb 16 12:31:40 <GeneralAntilles> 2 years. . . .
Feb 16 12:31:43 <GeneralAntilles> Too goddamn long.
Feb 16 12:32:05 <GeneralAntilles> wazd, why is that relevant? It's awesome, so you clearly can't make software? :P
Feb 16 12:32:32 <wazd> GeneralAntilles: well, I need guidelines)
Feb 16 12:33:02 <wazd> GeneralAntilles: Design without guidelines suck
Feb 16 12:33:05 <GeneralAntilles> wazd, still don't see where World of Goo is relevant. :P
Feb 16 12:33:22 <GeneralAntilles> Yeah, Nokians keep saying to not wait for Nokia te get started.
Feb 16 12:33:33 <GeneralAntilles> But I agree with you, wazd, working without guidelines sucks.
Feb 16 12:33:36 <wazd> GeneralAntilles: I want to make software even while playing World of Goo )
Feb 16 12:34:20 <wazd> BTW it's not so cool to play with touchpad :(
Feb 16 12:35:27 <GeneralAntilles> F1 should just give up on trying to keep costs down.
Feb 16 12:35:49 <GeneralAntilles> They need 1600HP turbo-charged engines and enough downforce to corner at 8G.
Feb 16 12:35:58 <johnx> yeah, read the Nokia MWC on the bus :/
Feb 16 12:36:10 <GeneralAntilles> Crippling the cars just makes them more boring.
Feb 16 12:36:22 <GeneralAntilles> Glad to see the grooves are gone, though.
Feb 16 12:36:39 <johnx> rally is where it's at anyways, but WRC is screwing that up lately :/
Feb 16 12:36:45 <Stskeeps> johnx: forgot to upload src packages
Feb 16 12:36:51 <johnx> me?
Feb 16 12:36:58 <Stskeeps> done thst now :P
Feb 16 12:37:05 <Stskeeps> yeah
Feb 16 12:37:22 <johnx> ah, crap. I forgot to run import on the server
Feb 16 12:37:33 <johnx> sorry about that ...
Feb 16 12:38:00 <GeneralAntilles> johnx, ALMS and *TCC is where it's at for me.
Feb 16 12:38:04 <oli> is maemo livecd alive project?
Feb 16 12:38:32 <Stskeeps> johnx: is finw
Feb 16 12:38:47 <Stskeeps> i screwed up hal detection too
Feb 16 12:39:06 <johnx> working as a team! :D
Feb 16 12:39:24 <Stskeeps> hehe
Feb 16 13:14:55 <GeneralAntilles> E55 looks nice
Feb 16 13:19:25 <b-man>  
Feb 16 13:26:45 <timelE61i>  
Feb 16 13:27:29 <qwerty12_N800>  
Feb 16 13:29:24 <GeneralAntilles> Either my client's broken or you're just assholes.
Feb 16 13:29:26 <GeneralAntilles> ~ping
Feb 16 13:29:27 <infobot> ~pong
Feb 16 13:29:31 <GeneralAntilles> Just assholes.
Feb 16 13:29:48 * Jaffa was wondering that
Feb 16 13:31:36 <timelE61i>  well, my irc client rarely works
Feb 16 13:33:21 <b-man> infobot: burn himself
Feb 16 13:33:22 * infobot pours gasoline all over himself, ignites the fire, and then enjoys some toasty marshmallows with the glorious blaze
Feb 16 13:34:13 <b-man> hehe
Feb 16 13:38:38 <tekojo> X-Fade: ping
Feb 16 13:38:53 <X-Fade> tekojo: pong.
Feb 16 13:39:23 <b-man> pritty quite today :)
Feb 16 13:39:44 <tekojo> X-Fade: the training materials
Feb 16 13:40:13 <X-Fade> tekojo: Will coach dneary..
Feb 16 13:40:26 <tekojo> Coach or just give a hand
Feb 16 13:40:28 <dneary> Hi all
Feb 16 13:40:40 <tekojo> dneary: there you are :-)
Feb 16 13:40:47 <X-Fade> tekojo: Well he's the docmaster, so he should be able to do it anyway ;)
Feb 16 13:40:50 <dneary> Coach is fine :) I'd like to understand better what's happening here
Feb 16 13:41:05 <X-Fade> tekojo: So coaching seems to be the better option.
Feb 16 13:41:32 * X-Fade is being swamped with requests on his first work day after holiday ;)
Feb 16 13:41:35 <tekojo> simply just moving the existing stuff to an archive folder and moving the new stuff to a visible place
Feb 16 13:42:17 <tekojo> X-Fade: which reminds me to send you an e-mail about server logs and statistics
Feb 16 13:44:36 * X-Fade runs ...
Feb 16 13:45:44 <dneary> OK - so, I want to be clear what I need to do before I break anything...
Feb 16 13:45:59 <dneary> Create a new folder, development/training/chinook
Feb 16 13:46:08 <X-Fade> dneary: I'll walk you through it, but first let's do the voting.
Feb 16 13:46:14 <tekojo> just training/chinook
Feb 16 13:46:17 <dneary> Move everything from the folder development/training to development/training/chinook
Feb 16 13:46:20 <timelE61i> andre?
Feb 16 13:46:24 <tekojo> or training/archive if you prefer
Feb 16 13:46:33 <timelE61i> Do you file bugs about beagle/tracker?
Feb 16 13:46:41 <andre__> timelE61i, yepp?
Feb 16 13:46:41 <X-Fade> dneary: Because I don't have time to fix it if you break the site..
Feb 16 13:46:51 <tekojo> Oops, it is development/training...
Feb 16 13:46:54 <dneary> X-Fade: You want to get the database up & going first? I have an hour or two of scripting to do for that
Feb 16 13:47:04 <andre__> timelE61i, means?
Feb 16 13:47:14 <dneary> tekojo: Yes - not development/documentation/training :)
Feb 16 13:47:23 <timelE61i> There's a thing called "xesan" it's some sort of f plugin
Feb 16 13:47:53 <timelE61i> Xesam auto index disabled. Click to active.
Feb 16 13:47:59 <dneary> The things I don't know how to do are: (1) moving everything to a sub-folder and (2) copying the new docs to the vacated folder
Feb 16 13:48:07 <timelE61i> Is what i get when i hover over it
Feb 16 13:48:17 <timelE61i> Which is cute, but wrong :)
Feb 16 13:48:19 <dneary> Xesam is the desktop search module
Feb 16 13:48:29 <dneary> Oh - you know that
Feb 16 13:48:49 <timelE61i> Well, i wouldn't say i know anything
Feb 16 13:48:50 * dneary realises that timelE61i is probably timeless
Feb 16 13:49:05 <tekojo> dneary: yes that's timeless
Feb 16 13:49:15 <dneary> OK - so let's reach agreement
Feb 16 13:49:24 <dneary> I was first going to move the documents, then set up the election
Feb 16 13:50:01 <dneary> Both probably need to be done today
Feb 16 13:50:11 <dneary> But I definitely need Niels to do the election
Feb 16 13:50:43 <dneary> X-Fade: Is there any way you can give me an access to that mysql database, I'd be able to get by on my own?
Feb 16 13:50:48 <Jaffa> It sounds like there are still lots of karma bugs outstanding, despite them being repriotisied in the sprint meeting
Feb 16 13:51:46 * timelE61i tries to use google code from a computer which crawls slower than an n800
Feb 16 13:53:06 <b-man> lol
Feb 16 13:53:19 <florian> timelE61i: the e71 is a good replacement :-)
Feb 16 13:54:54 <dneary> OK - logged in to maintenance.maemo.org
Feb 16 13:55:06 <dneary> tekojo: That's the URL for the docs importer
Feb 16 13:56:10 <tekojo> dneary: https://maintenance.maemo.org/midcom-exec-fi.hut.htmlimport/import-directory.php
Feb 16 13:56:24 <dneary> Yeah, I'm there
Feb 16 13:56:26 <X-Fade> tekojo: Please.. private messages ;)
Feb 16 13:56:49 <tekojo> dneary: Oops, just gathering my stuff, need to get hom
Feb 16 13:56:59 <dneary> So - I think that this step has been done already
Feb 16 13:57:09 <dneary> That page is for uploading .tars of HTML pages, right?
Feb 16 13:57:21 <tekojo> dneary: both yes
Feb 16 13:57:45 <tekojo> dneary: now it is just moving everything where they belong
Feb 16 13:58:08 <tekojo> dneary: and probably something huge, which I have overlooked, but X-Fade will know
Feb 16 13:58:17 <tekojo> dneary: need to run
Feb 16 14:09:38 <timelE61i> andre i filed browser-extension-for-beagle issue 5
Feb 16 14:12:09 <andre__> ...but not in bugs.maemo.org .
Feb 16 14:16:53 <timelE61i> yEah, i decided i'd crawl through code.google.com
Feb 16 14:17:10 <timelE61i> I have some nitro bugs to file :)
Feb 16 14:17:21 <timelE61i> You can import those :)
Feb 16 14:17:53 <andre__> err from where to where?
Feb 16 14:17:59 <timelE61i> tHey fixed a bug i complained about (Ok v OK) by fixing the enGB po file
Feb 16 14:18:08 <GeneralAntilles> I wonder if maemo.nokia.com is ever gonna go live.
Feb 16 14:18:12 <timelE61i> Which doesn't help me since i run enUS
Feb 16 14:18:12 <andre__> who is "they"?
Feb 16 14:18:25 <timelE61i> They=nokia maemo sdk people
Feb 16 14:18:35 <GeneralAntilles> The evil monsters under your bed.
Feb 16 14:18:35 <timelE61i> From bugs to nokia's bz
Feb 16 14:18:45 <timelE61i> 3floors down actually
Feb 16 14:18:50 <RST38h> General: There is already a consumer site for the tablets, so why not?
Feb 16 14:18:55 <timelE61i> But they're all away for the week
Feb 16 14:19:02 <timelE61i> Rst: tableteer?
Feb 16 14:19:03 <RST38h> Few DNS changes and it is there
Feb 16 14:19:12 <GeneralAntilles> RST38h, it seems like they might be waiting on Fremantel.
Feb 16 14:19:18 <GeneralAntilles> s/tel/tle/
Feb 16 14:19:18 <infobot> GeneralAntilles meant: RST38h, it seems like they might be waiting on Fremantle.
Feb 16 14:19:23 <Stskeeps> Fermantle? :P
Feb 16 14:19:25 <GeneralAntilles> or maybe this is blocking: http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Texts_for_maemo.nokia.com
Feb 16 14:19:50 <RST38h> General: Who knows what they are waiting for... May simply have to do with the lack of spare hands
Feb 16 14:21:53 <GeneralAntilles> The "What is Maemo?" section is stupid.
Feb 16 14:22:42 <johnx> ah! that would be the prime example of how to make 'Maemo' more confusing than it actually is
Feb 16 14:23:08 <timelE61i> what is maemo?
Feb 16 14:23:08 <Stskeeps> jesus, why does my builds break so badly today..
Feb 16 14:23:16 <Stskeeps> timelE61i: beats me
Feb 16 14:23:23 <Stskeeps> what is the Maemo Platform?
Feb 16 14:23:34 <b-man> Stskeeps: problems with 0.8?
Feb 16 14:23:34 <GeneralAntilles> According to the proposed text in the wiki: "Maemo is more than a software development platform. Maemo is an open collaboration between a major corporation and a generous group of volunteer programmers, hackers, designers, and users. While Maemo is a system with Linux at its heart, it is also an organization consisting of both people and code. With and open heart -- and an open mind -- Maemo operates freely and unhindered."
Feb 16 14:23:57 <qwerty12_N800> ~wikipedia Maemo
Feb 16 14:24:02 <RST38h> General: judging from the texts at wiki, it will end up being a mirror of maemo.org
Feb 16 14:24:12 <Stskeeps> b-man: nah, just bad setup
Feb 16 14:24:16 <infobot> At http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maemo (URL), Wikipedia explains: "'Maemo' may refer to: * Maemo Platform, Nokia's software and development platform. * Maemo (operating system), the operating system for Nokia Internet Tablets. "
Feb 16 14:24:23 <GeneralAntilles> RST38h, a software platform being a mirror of a website?
Feb 16 14:24:52 <timelE61i> uNhindered?
Feb 16 14:25:04 <Stskeeps> neat, im getsies a 770
Feb 16 14:25:18 <timelE61i> EmphAsis added by phone...
Feb 16 14:25:30 <b-man> Stskeeps: nice
Feb 16 14:28:03 <GeneralAntilles> "Maemo" is most certainly not an organization. . . .
Feb 16 14:28:59 <RST38h> General: [carefully, as if talking to a child] By "maemo.org" I meant a website that come up when you type maemo.org into your browser address bar and press enter
Feb 16 14:29:39 <GeneralAntilles> RST38h, the sarcasm is a nice touch.
Feb 16 14:30:33 <GeneralAntilles> You clearly meant maemo.nokia.com, while I had moved on to Maemo.
Feb 16 14:31:22 <GeneralAntilles> Anyway, what's there on the wiki was mostly contributed by Tim and Quim.
Feb 16 14:31:41 <GeneralAntilles> So it doesn't necessarily have a lot to do with what the real website will look like.
Feb 16 14:35:23 * Stskeeps curses loudly and restarts imaging process
Feb 16 14:35:49 <johnx> what happened?
Feb 16 14:36:23 <Stskeeps> NFS stale handle i think, and it thought the 0.8 directory was somewhere else
Feb 16 14:36:38 <johnx> sad
Feb 16 14:36:43 <johnx> never was a fan of NFS
Feb 16 14:36:56 <qwerty12_N800> How far had you gotten up to?
Feb 16 14:37:34 <Stskeeps> johnx: shipping without HAL detection of RX-44 keyboard, but it can be enabled with a simple setxkbmap command
Feb 16 14:37:44 <Stskeeps> and also, there is something i found..
Feb 16 14:38:50 <Stskeeps> qwerty12_N800: can you mer-ize https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/trunk/?root=maemo-xkb-plugi at some point?
Feb 16 14:38:55 <timelE61i> johnx: smb+zfs :)
Feb 16 14:39:05 <Stskeeps> johnx: well in this case it is NFS from within a qemu so
Feb 16 14:39:15 <johnx> timelE61i, sshfs wins
Feb 16 14:39:24 <Stskeeps> qwerty12_N800: it is a XKB keyboard changer with a CPA
Feb 16 14:39:34 <qwerty12_N800> Stskeeps: sure
Feb 16 14:39:44 <dneary> Hi all
Feb 16 14:39:51 <qwerty12_N800> hi
Feb 16 14:40:27 <timelE61i> Johnx: support on w32 ?
Feb 16 14:40:38 <johnx> timelE61i, unimportant
Feb 16 14:41:15 * Stskeeps uses smb+zfs
Feb 16 14:41:31 <Stskeeps> (at home)
Feb 16 14:41:33 <johnx> win32 can act as the 'server' for sshfs
Feb 16 14:41:47 <qwerty12_N800> there's a free equivalent of sshfs for w32 somewhere (as pointed out to me by glass)
Feb 16 14:41:51 * timeless tries to figure out how to update swift(2)
Feb 16 14:42:06 <johnx> any scp or sftp client wouldn't be bad
Feb 16 14:42:56 <Stskeeps> johnx: on x86 it dies in FBW btw, with only 64mb ram
Feb 16 14:43:03 <Stskeeps> no idea why though
Feb 16 14:43:05 <johnx> really?
Feb 16 14:43:08 <johnx> madness
Feb 16 14:43:10 <Stskeeps> yes
Feb 16 14:43:42 <Stskeeps> i tested in vmware
Feb 16 14:43:45 <johnx> dies with OOM or something else?
Feb 16 14:43:48 <Stskeeps> not sure
Feb 16 14:43:50 <johnx> ah
Feb 16 14:44:09 <timelE61i> fbw?
Feb 16 14:44:15 <johnx> first-boot-wizard
Feb 16 14:45:35 <Stskeeps> in style with HIM, HIME, HIMF and HDE, etc :P
Feb 16 14:46:00 <Stskeeps> i wonder if there is any of the maemo- apps that shorts to MILF..
Feb 16 14:46:45 <GeneralAntilles> Stskeeps, if not, it's time to make one. ;)
Feb 16 14:46:47 <johnx> maemo idyllic lifelike furries
Feb 16 14:46:57 <GeneralAntilles> Maemo-I*-L*-Framework
Feb 16 14:47:07 <johnx> I = internet
Feb 16 14:47:10 <johnx> no choice there
Feb 16 14:47:23 <GeneralAntilles> Location?
Feb 16 14:47:23 <Stskeeps> maemo internet layout framework
Feb 16 14:48:11 <GeneralAntilles> Maybe we should rename AGPS. ;)
Feb 16 14:48:48 <dneary> Instant
Feb 16 14:48:54 <dneary> ID
Feb 16 14:48:55 <johnx> maybe L = liken
Feb 16 14:49:00 <johnx> or lichen
Feb 16 14:49:10 <dneary> IM
Feb 16 14:51:36 <GeneralAntilles> Internet Lichen sound horrifying
Feb 16 14:51:57 <GeneralAntilles> Maybe we should have those grow on the desktop if you don't care for your tablet enough.
Feb 16 14:52:19 <RST38h> it already grows all over facebook
Feb 16 14:53:14 <timelE61i> so...
Feb 16 14:53:30 <timelE61i> If i only use wifi basestations to find out where i am
Feb 16 14:53:42 <Stskeeps> mm?
Feb 16 14:53:51 <timelE61i> (i.e. I have an n800 w/o bt-gps, plus mer)
Feb 16 14:54:01 <timelE61i> Is that still AGPS?
Feb 16 14:54:17 <Stskeeps> hehe, good question
Feb 16 14:54:29 <Stskeeps> isnt AGPS just the almanac stuff?
Feb 16 14:54:44 * timelE61i shrugs
Feb 16 14:54:48 <GeneralAntilles> No, that's not AGPS
Feb 16 14:54:51 <timelE61i> pretend i know nothing about gps
Feb 16 14:55:05 <johnx> the A is there. but not the 'GPS' :)
Feb 16 14:55:13 <aquatix> hm, that E55 phone sure looks pretty
Feb 16 14:55:15 <timelE61i> Pretend that a "location" library wants to satisfy my usecase
Feb 16 14:55:47 <GeneralAntilles> Skyhook is the sort of thing that does that.
Feb 16 14:55:56 <GeneralAntilles> aquatix, yeah, it looks quite nice.
Feb 16 14:56:03 <GeneralAntilles> I want a small, thin phone.
Feb 16 14:56:03 <timelE61i> oH, i'm sure it's possible
Feb 16 14:56:12 <GeneralAntilles> Unfortunately the NAM version probably wont ship until 2010. :roll:
Feb 16 14:56:30 <GeneralAntilles> timelE61i, I don't know if there's a proper "name" for that sort of location service, though.
Feb 16 14:56:32 <timelE61i> Nam?
Feb 16 14:56:41 <qwerty12_N800> North American
Feb 16 14:56:43 <GeneralAntilles> North American
Feb 16 14:57:00 <GeneralAntilles> Maybe WPS (WiFi Positioning System)
Feb 16 14:57:51 <timelE61i> what if my n800 is usb tethered w/ wifi off? :)
Feb 16 14:58:06 <johnx> it's just "location service"
Feb 16 14:58:17 <timelE61i> Heck, what if my mer is running my laptop w/ ethernet
Feb 16 14:58:20 <johnx> there are a couple abstract libraries for this sort of thing (or so I thought)
Feb 16 14:58:26 <timelE61i> (it is, does, etc.)
Feb 16 14:58:32 <timelE61i> There are
Feb 16 14:58:49 <timelE61i> Anyway, i'd assert that the name should handle these scenarios
Feb 16 14:59:12 <johnx> what name?
Feb 16 15:00:35 <timelE61i> this maemo i l f
Feb 16 15:00:44 <johnx> ah
Feb 16 15:00:50 <timelE61i> which has an NSFW abbr
Feb 16 15:00:52 <johnx> geoclue is the library
Feb 16 15:00:56 <timelE61i> So please XXX me
Feb 16 15:01:01 <timelE61i> Err fix
Feb 16 15:01:12 <johnx> http://arstechnica.com/open-source/news/2009/01/location-awareness-comes-to-the-linux-platform.ars
Feb 16 15:01:30 <GeneralAntilles> Nokia is pushing their own competitor to GeoClue, apparently.
Feb 16 15:01:38 * johnx sighs
Feb 16 15:01:45 <timelE61i> probably neoclue :)
Feb 16 15:01:58 <johnx> I hope they have absolutely bulletproof reasoning why geoclue can't work for them
Feb 16 15:02:06 <GeneralAntilles> Does anybody think the 2nd paragraph here is mostly Apple-spam?
Feb 16 15:02:07 <GeneralAntilles> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_5800_XpressMusic#History
Feb 16 15:02:12 <timelE61i> nokia exactly obfuscated clue
Feb 16 15:02:17 <RST38h> johnx: they don't
Feb 16 15:02:37 <timelE61i> Nih? :)
Feb 16 15:02:51 <RST38h> General: Doesn't wiki allow to find who exactly added it?
Feb 16 15:02:56 <GeneralAntilles> https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2037
Feb 16 15:02:56 <johnx> GeneralAntilles, eh. doesn't seem to be really
Feb 16 15:03:24 <GeneralAntilles> johnx, I'm not sure why it took the iPhone to demonstrate that Nokia didn't have a touchscreen phone.
Feb 16 15:04:00 <GeneralAntilles> I'd also say the bit about S90 misses Maemo.
Feb 16 15:04:04 <johnx> it was the big event that year in smartphones, like it or not
Feb 16 15:04:21 <dneary> Hi
Feb 16 15:04:23 <GeneralAntilles> johnx, I don't disagree, I'm just not sure any of that is really encyclopedic.
Feb 16 15:04:25 <RST38h> Maemo never ran on a phone
Feb 16 15:04:27 <johnx> hi dneary
Feb 16 15:04:28 <dneary> Two questions:
Feb 16 15:04:29 <RST38h> S90 did
Feb 16 15:04:40 <GeneralAntilles> RST38h, but it's a platform, and Nokia owns it.
Feb 16 15:04:45 <johnx> GeneralAntilles, I'm not sure an article on a phone is entirely encyclopedic sooo...
Feb 16 15:05:01 <dneary> 1. In the maemo users database, there are some accounts that don't have a creation date associated, but clearly the people involved are old-timers
Feb 16 15:05:34 <GeneralAntilles> The migration to Garage may have left some weirdness.
Feb 16 15:07:23 <timelE61i> pEople remember s90?
Feb 16 15:07:23 <timelE61i> Why?
Feb 16 15:07:44 <dneary> (eg. gustavotiberio)
Feb 16 15:08:59 <GeneralAntilles> dneary, let's just assume no creation date accounts are older than 3 months.
Feb 16 15:09:14 <X-Fade> probably older than 3 years ;)
Feb 16 15:13:57 <aquatix> timelE61i: i remember
Feb 16 15:20:29 <Jaffa> dneary/GeneralAntilles/X-Fade: lardman|afk makes the point very clearly - if there are big problems with karma, that's a bit of a big problem.
Feb 16 15:21:22 <dneary> Jaffa: I agree
Feb 16 15:21:43 <dneary> I don't think that there are big problems with karma, but there are clearly some small ones, to say the least
Feb 16 15:22:21 <dneary> X-Fade: Your account doesn't have any creation date :)
Feb 16 15:22:42 <X-Fade> dneary: All the l337 guys don't have one ;)
Feb 16 15:24:31 <Jaffa> dneary: indeed, hopefully they're localised and specific. But progress seems... slow.
Feb 16 15:25:17 <GeneralAntilles> maemo-community needs to be indexed. . . .
Feb 16 15:25:55 <lcuk> offer a karma boost to the developer who implements the best karma calc
Feb 16 15:26:21 <Jaffa> Or fix's Andrea's and Simon's karma calcs
Feb 16 15:26:25 <lcuk> *must include questionairre for girlfriends partners to confirm karma ratings
Feb 16 15:26:41 <lcuk> that as well lol
Feb 16 15:26:49 <Jaffa> lcuk: different kind o' karma ;-)
Feb 16 15:27:23 <lcuk> i thought there were many facets to karma, i have been working on my gf for years in the hope of improving my maemo.org karma rating
Feb 16 15:27:27 * lcuk is devistated
Feb 16 15:28:00 <lcuk> devastated as well :$
Feb 16 15:28:25 <lcuk> is(seplling==crap)karma--;
Feb 16 15:28:38 <johnx> how does your wife feel about you spending so much time with your gf?
Feb 16 15:29:40 <mgedmin> s/is/if/
Feb 16 15:29:52 <lcuk> i spend equal times with them both  :D
Feb 16 15:30:01 <RST38h> johnx: it is the same girl most likely
Feb 16 15:30:02 <lcuk> (and the wife as well)
Feb 16 15:30:19 <mgedmin> both girlfriends and a wife?
Feb 16 15:30:32 <mgedmin> that's three total
Feb 16 15:30:33 <lcuk> yeah, now you know why im so tired all the time
Feb 16 15:31:21 <johnx> lcuk, from telling so many lies? :P
Feb 16 15:31:55 <lcuk> whatever gives you that impression?
Feb 16 15:32:24 * lcuk will probably die later when tracy reads this :S :'( 
Feb 16 15:32:41 <johnx> :)
Feb 16 15:33:02 <Jaffa> Mrs Jaffa's not been on IRC for, oooh, ten years or so. I'm probably safe :)
Feb 16 15:33:52 <lcuk> tracy keeps nicking one of the nokias here, i tell her she should really have an account, but then i realise she will probably code me under the table
Feb 16 15:34:10 <RST38h> Jaffa: [state-of-factly] this conversation is being logged.
Feb 16 15:34:53 <lcuk> RST38h, mrs jaffa does not know that jaffa is a pseudonym and he wears an orange mask when in irc
Feb 16 15:35:06 <aquatix> Jaffa: your girl has been on irc?
Feb 16 15:35:33 * Stskeeps 's has too.
Feb 16 15:35:43 <aquatix> mine hasn't
Feb 16 15:35:48 <Jaffa> aquatix: aye.
Feb 16 15:35:55 <aquatix> she has a xubuntu laptop and is loving it though :)
Feb 16 15:37:00 * Jaffa and Mrs Jaffa wouldn't have met if she hadn't been on IRC (a friend of mine was checking who else from warwick.ac.uk was on IRC and semi-stalking them, Mrs Jaffa was then initiated into a Warwick talker and that's how we met)
Feb 16 15:37:55 * Stskeeps was fixing another girls computer and his fiancee asked if i could fix her computer, .. and one thing went to another
Feb 16 15:39:10 * lcuk stares blankly at the strange gender mix in that comment
Feb 16 15:39:22 <RST38h> Sts: so she made th initial advance? =)
Feb 16 15:39:53 <Stskeeps> RST38h: yes, but admittedly i had initially tried to talk to her while being slightly drunk and not knowing who she was some month before
Feb 16 15:40:26 * Jaffa got a (semi-)date through fixing a friend of a friends computer; just before meeting the missus. So, on the whole, I suppose no matter how much I hate computers, I've still got a net +ve.
Feb 16 15:41:39 <lcuk> bbl
Feb 16 15:41:41 * aquatix has a highschool sweetheart
Feb 16 15:41:54 <aquatix> those exist apparently :)
Feb 16 15:41:55 <Jaffa> And you're a dirty old 30 year old? ;-)
Feb 16 15:42:02 <aquatix> ha
Feb 16 15:42:08 <aquatix> i mean we've been together since
Feb 16 15:42:10 * Stskeeps is talking to close to zero of highschool mates
Feb 16 15:42:19 * Jaffa grins
Feb 16 15:42:27 <aquatix> Jaffa: and i'm nearing 30 indeed
Feb 16 15:42:38 <aquatix> Stskeeps: yeah, don't see many of them either
Feb 16 15:42:52 <aquatix> like, one daily and one every so many months
Feb 16 15:42:54 <aquatix> that's about it
Feb 16 15:43:22 * Jaffa 's next birthday is the last big one for a while: 2^5 :)
Feb 16 15:43:30 <Stskeeps> on the other hand i move 130km away..
Feb 16 15:43:57 <Macer> god i hate setting up a new fbsd box
Feb 16 15:44:23 <aquatix> i turned 0x1B this year
Feb 16 15:44:35 <aquatix> Macer: apt-get install debian
Feb 16 15:44:38 * aquatix runs
Feb 16 15:44:44 <Macer> haha
Feb 16 15:44:53 <Macer> i'll probably put debian on the artigo when it shows up
Feb 16 15:45:09 <Macer> i wanted to see how well the artigo works as a desktop linux box
Feb 16 15:45:52 <RST38h> Jaffa: Jesus didn't make it to 34, btw
Feb 16 15:46:03 * RST38h always has kind words of encouragement
Feb 16 15:46:03 <GeneralAntilles> Sounds like a threat.
Feb 16 15:46:09 <Veggen>  Jaffa: I sent a cake invitation at work, saying I had a "birthday, round in both the 5- and 7-digit system"
Feb 16 15:46:28 <Veggen> Jaffa: That really separated the geeks from the rest ;)
Feb 16 15:47:54 <aquatix> RST38h: so, you encourage nailing Jaffa?
Feb 16 15:48:23 <aquatix> *crickets*
Feb 16 15:49:21 <johnx> Stskeeps, gotcha beat :)
Feb 16 15:49:23 <dneary> For info: 3 people had karma > 25 and an account created less than 3 months ago
Feb 16 15:49:33 <dneary> I think I'll mentioon that on the list.
Feb 16 15:49:36 <dneary> Later
Feb 16 15:49:40 <Macer> what is the best way to tar up /home and keep all the perms and .files ?
Feb 16 15:49:52 <Macer> something that i can move over to another box and just extract and be done with it
Feb 16 15:50:16 <johnx> Macer, sudo tar cvf my-home.tar /home
Feb 16 15:50:21 <dneary> Macer: as root: tar -p -s
Feb 16 15:50:24 <johnx> make sure you're not in /home
Feb 16 15:50:31 <Stskeeps> johnx: mm?
Feb 16 15:50:44 <johnx> Stskeeps, I moved a bit farther from my highschool :)
Feb 16 15:50:58 <Macer> and if i were in home wouldn't tar cvf old.home.tar . work also?
Feb 16 15:51:06 <Stskeeps> johnx: hehe, true
Feb 16 15:51:16 <Macer> so i could just copy it to the new /home and extract it from there?
Feb 16 15:51:30 <dneary> Macer: Or use rsync
Feb 16 15:51:46 <johnx> Macer, sure. why did you ask if you knew the answer? :P
Feb 16 15:52:16 * johnx also married his highschool sweetheart...only took ~9 years...
Feb 16 15:52:23 <aquatix> johnx: ha
Feb 16 15:52:31 <aquatix> johnx: i will take about 11 i think
Feb 16 15:52:43 <aquatix> hm, no, that's already in July :/
Feb 16 15:54:15 * Stskeeps has two year day with the fiancee but we are apart physically today sadly.
Feb 16 15:54:29 <Macer> johnx: was just confirming ;)
Feb 16 15:54:48 <johnx> Macer, only thing is that if your version of tar is dumb it might have issues
Feb 16 15:54:52 <Macer> dneary: because i want to make compressed backups of user home dirs just in case
Feb 16 15:54:59 <johnx> you are tar'ing up the directory you're making the tar in...
Feb 16 15:55:14 <dneary> Macer: rsync can do this
Feb 16 15:55:23 <johnx> Stskeeps, I know the feeling. been there many times
Feb 16 15:55:34 <jeremiah> To whom does the intebration@maemo.org email address map to?
Feb 16 15:55:35 <dneary> rsync doesn't *have* to be remote
Feb 16 15:55:35 <Macer> dneary: i'll look into rsync once i get the box up and running ;)
Feb 16 15:55:41 <dneary> It can be local
Feb 16 15:55:44 <GeneralAntilles> jeremiah, no idea.
Feb 16 15:55:53 <dneary> In which case it'll work like tar -p -s
Feb 16 15:55:54 <GeneralAntilles> jeremiah, supposedly it's the SDK team.
Feb 16 15:55:59 <jeremiah> Sorry, intergration@maemo.org (not intebration) and not inebriation
Feb 16 15:56:08 <GeneralAntilles> But I've sent several emails to it with no response.
Feb 16 15:56:14 <jeremiah> The SDK team, okay.
Feb 16 15:56:19 <X-Fade> Let me check who is in the alias ;)
Feb 16 15:56:24 <dneary> jeremiah: Did you have a lot of beer over the weekend or something?
Feb 16 15:56:30 <jeremiah> heh
Feb 16 15:56:33 <dneary> intebration looks like inebriation
Feb 16 15:56:37 <jeremiah> Did someone say beer?
Feb 16 15:56:39 <GeneralAntilles> jeremiah, see: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3923
Feb 16 15:56:56 <GeneralAntilles> er, https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3922
Feb 16 15:57:21 <Macer> dneary: why would you use local rsync when you can just tar it?
Feb 16 15:57:28 <jeremiah> So intergration@maemo.org disappears into Nokia HQ?
Feb 16 15:57:41 <jeremiah> Can we add a CC to that?
Feb 16 15:57:50 <dneary> Macer: Because rsync can do cool stuff like sync up afterwards with only diffs
Feb 16 15:57:57 <X-Fade> Hmm kaltsi is in that alias too?
Feb 16 15:57:57 <jeremiah> Are we dealing with exim as MTA? Or something more exotic?
Feb 16 15:58:05 <dneary> So you can do your back-up as a daily cron job, for example
Feb 16 15:58:06 <johnx> Macer, faster, easier access to files
Feb 16 15:58:16 <dneary> And it handles permissions more easily
Feb 16 15:58:28 <jeremiah> plus you can do rsync over ssh!
Feb 16 15:58:30 <jeremiah> FTW
Feb 16 15:58:31 <Macer> dneary: ah. i see. well.. i will start setting that up once i get a chance to do so
Feb 16 15:58:35 <GeneralAntilles> Did we ever get the alarmd sources?
Feb 16 15:58:37 <Macer> jeremiah: that just sold me haha
Feb 16 15:58:38 * mgedmin wonders if people intentionally spell inteRgration with that extra R
Feb 16 15:58:50 <jeremiah> :)
Feb 16 15:59:02 <Macer> but right now i have to migrate a home dir over from the fileserver to a VM
Feb 16 15:59:05 <jeremiah> mgedmin: Nice catch.
Feb 16 15:59:05 <Stskeeps> GeneralAntilles: they lost them, but i have seen them in SDKs..
Feb 16 15:59:10 <Macer> i'm trying to isolate the fileserver as much as i can
Feb 16 15:59:59 <Macer> i had my shell box home dir on it.. so i'm trying to not do that anymore... people who use shells don't need 5TB of home space haha
Feb 16 16:00:11 <jeremiah> Does anything happen when you change the urgency of a package?
Feb 16 16:00:16 <jeremiah> Obviously it does in debian,
Feb 16 16:00:26 <jeremiah> but does the maemo build server notice and react?
Feb 16 16:01:29 <jeremiah> Hmm, this scares me:  Changed the license from GPL to Nokia modified MIT
Feb 16 16:01:42 <jeremiah> One cannot change the license. :-/
Feb 16 16:02:09 <jeremiah> (This is from the changelog in maemopad)
Feb 16 16:02:14 <dphil314> not by altering the install script?
Feb 16 16:02:44 <jeremiah> If software is licensed under the GPL, you cannot change it. Nor can you change the license of derived works.
Feb 16 16:02:49 <Jaffa> jeremiah: The (c) owner can, surely?
Feb 16 16:03:08 <jeremiah> Jaffa: If they are the copyright owner, yes.
Feb 16 16:03:44 <jeremiah> Copyright owners can do as they please.
Feb 16 16:03:55 <RST38h> jeremiah: you can change the license on thenext version
Feb 16 16:04:18 <jeremiah> RST38h: Not on derived works.
Feb 16 16:04:33 <jeremiah> You cannot bump the version of libc and just change the license.
Feb 16 16:04:36 <RST38h> jeremiah: correct
Feb 16 16:04:48 <Macer> wonder how well tar by itself compresses nowadays
Feb 16 16:04:55 <johnx> Macer, not at all
Feb 16 16:04:56 <RST38h> but maemopad is not derived from anything, is it?
Feb 16 16:04:57 <qwerty12> Macer, tar doesn't compress
Feb 16 16:04:57 <jeremiah> You cannot link to a GPL'd .so file without using the GPL
Feb 16 16:05:03 <Macer> wow really?
Feb 16 16:05:07 <Macer> i always thought it did :)
Feb 16 16:05:12 <qwerty12> yep, it's why it's used with bzip2 or gzip
Feb 16 16:05:13 <RST38h> jeremiah: libc is LGPLed afaik
Feb 16 16:05:16 <johnx> Macer, it's a feature, not a bug
Feb 16 16:05:17 <Macer> i honestly didn't know that
Feb 16 16:05:23 <RST38h> jeremiah: You are mistaking LGPL for GPL
Feb 16 16:05:25 <johnx> tar = tape archive
Feb 16 16:05:40 <johnx> it's just for putting things in a nice order and giving them a minimal header
Feb 16 16:05:40 <jeremiah> RST38h: No, don't think so.
Feb 16 16:06:00 <Macer> i see :)
Feb 16 16:06:13 <Macer> honestly all these years i thought it did some sort of compression
Feb 16 16:06:28 <RST38h> jeremiah: http://www.gnu.org/software/libtool/manual/libc/Copying.html#Copying
Feb 16 16:06:30 <jeremiah> Macer: tar just stands for Tape ARchive
Feb 16 16:06:33 <RST38h> jeremiah: questions?
Feb 16 16:06:37 <Macer> never really used it much
Feb 16 16:07:07 <Macer> i get to find out in a minute of esxi can use an external usb hd
Feb 16 16:07:09 <dphil314> tar.gz compresses
Feb 16 16:07:10 <Macer> this should be fun
Feb 16 16:07:20 <dphil314> a tar within a gzip
Feb 16 16:08:07 <timelE61i> sO, it just occurred to me that naming two boxes "swift" and sitting them next to eachother isn't a good idea
Feb 16 16:08:21 <jeremiah> RST38h: I think you are confused. I specifically said that you cannot change the GPL.
Feb 16 16:08:58 <Macer> after tweaking my esxi box a bit it is running great
Feb 16 16:09:09 <Macer> i guess you are supposed to actually admin such things haha
Feb 16 16:11:16 <jeremiah> RST38h: Furthermore, you are referring to an outdated version of the LGPL, please read: http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/lesser.html
Feb 16 16:12:09 <qwerty12> Stskeeps, for mer, can I put waitdbus from osso-af-tools in its own package, like you have done for fb-progress?
Feb 16 16:12:34 <timelE61i> jeremiah: how goes it?
Feb 16 16:12:41 <timelE61i> And have you met mxr.maemo.org?
Feb 16 16:13:19 * timelE61i is trying to get swift2 staged enough to try getting fremantle xref'd
Feb 16 16:13:34 <jeremiah> timelE61i: Heh, it goes well
Feb 16 16:13:52 <jeremiah> I have not met mxr.maemo.org, but I might surf over there now.
Feb 16 16:16:09 <timelE61i> for public things it can help chasing down debian/control bits and their origins
Feb 16 16:16:09 <RST38h> jeremiah: I am referring to the glibc library that maemopad dynamically links to
Feb 16 16:16:32 <timelE61i> rst: glibc has some screwy exclusion
Feb 16 16:16:38 <RST38h> jeremiah: glibc is licensed under lgpl and and main difference of lgpl vs gpl is that lgpl allows dynamic linking of non-gpled code
Feb 16 16:17:12 <jeremiah> RST38h: Which LGPL license does it in fact ship with? Which specific version?
Feb 16 16:18:31 <RST38h> jeremiah: I guess different glibcs ship with different versions of lgpl
Feb 16 16:18:43 <RST38h> but they should ALL allow linking of proprietary code
Feb 16 16:18:50 <jeremiah> RST38h: Yeah, and the updated LGPL is the same as GPL v3
Feb 16 16:19:35 <jeremiah> GPL v3 is much more specific about what you can link to.
Feb 16 16:21:53 <RST38h> jeremiah: go to your own url and read 4.d.1
Feb 16 16:22:23 <Stskeeps> qwerty12: go ahead
Feb 16 16:22:26 <RST38h> as opposed to 4.d.0 of course
Feb 16 16:22:45 <RST38h> So, even if it is v3, it is still an LGPL license all right
Feb 16 16:22:49 <qwerty12> Stskeeps, ta
Feb 16 16:22:56 <jeremiah> RST38h: Will do - I am not a layer though.
Feb 16 16:24:26 <jeremiah> RST38h: The problem is this line in the begining;
Feb 16 16:24:29 <Macer> a LGPL.. "an" comes before words with vowels
Feb 16 16:24:36 <jeremiah> This license is a set of additional permissions added to version 3 of the GNU General Public License."
Feb 16 16:24:39 <Macer> :)
Feb 16 16:25:02 <jeremiah> So the modern LGPL is an "additional set of permissions"
Feb 16 16:25:07 <RST38h> Macer: [yawn] try to spell L G P L
Feb 16 16:25:16 <Macer> haha
Feb 16 16:25:21 <RST38h> jeremiah: see permission 4.d.0
Feb 16 16:25:30 <jeremiah> But, like I said, I am not a laweer
Feb 16 16:25:39 <jeremiah> Or a layer.
Feb 16 16:25:41 <RST38h> Any more pedants in the room? =)
Feb 16 16:25:44 <jeremiah> Or a loafer
Feb 16 16:26:01 <jeremiah> Pendants?
Feb 16 16:26:18 <Macer> acronyms are based on the pronounciation of the words
Feb 16 16:26:28 <Macer> not on the spelling of the acronym
Feb 16 16:27:09 <jeremiah> RST38h: So you are saying this is a "combined" work?
Feb 16 16:27:36 <GeneralAntilles> Obviously the only answer is to sue Nokia and see what they say. . . .
Feb 16 16:27:49 <Macer> GeneralAntilles: hahaha
Feb 16 16:27:54 <jeremiah> GeneralAntilles: It gets a bit tricky.
Feb 16 16:27:57 <Macer> i agree
Feb 16 16:28:07 <jeremiah> They might not sue Nokia, but they might try to sue Maemo
Feb 16 16:28:15 <Macer> jeremiah: which is why nokia has $50,000,000 set aside each year for lawyers
Feb 16 16:28:15 <RST38h> jeremiah: see item 0
Feb 16 16:28:23 <RST38h> jeremiah: it defines what a combined work is
Feb 16 16:28:29 <GeneralAntilles> jeremiah, Maemo is Nokia.
Feb 16 16:29:03 <RST38h> Frankly, I do not see what is the point in insisting that GLIBC is a full GPL lib
Feb 16 16:29:10 <jeremiah> Well, there are clearly some questions here - you cannot change licenses.
Feb 16 16:29:27 <RST38h> Ok, let us say GLIBC is a full GPL lib. This effectively means that no commercial developer will EVER develop for Linux
Feb 16 16:29:28 <GeneralAntilles> Unless you're the copyright owner, and isn't Nokia the copyright owner?
Feb 16 16:29:43 <Jaffa> jeremiah: If Nokia is the sole copyright owner of Maemopad (and I believe they are), they can - as you say
Feb 16 16:29:59 <jeremiah> Jaffa: Yes, but it relies on lots of other software
Feb 16 16:30:05 <jeremiah> That they do not have the licenses for
Feb 16 16:30:18 <Stskeeps> dear god, a gpl discussion? :P
Feb 16 16:30:21 <jeremiah> So it is a "derived work"
Feb 16 16:30:22 <RST38h> You do not want commercial developers produce anything for Linux?
Feb 16 16:30:24 * Stskeeps gets out the popcorn
Feb 16 16:30:37 <Macer> Stskeeps: i think it's more of an argument than a discussion
Feb 16 16:30:38 <Jaffa> jeremiah: but the source of Maemopad can be under any licence they like, as long as it's compatible with the licences of that which it's derived/merged/bundled/whatever
Feb 16 16:30:46 <Stskeeps> Macer: gpl discussions are always arguments..
Feb 16 16:30:46 <johnx> Stskeeps, heh. yup. make sure you have plenty. this could be an epic. maybe even a 3-parter with intermissions
Feb 16 16:30:52 <RST38h> Sts: our good friend jeremiah here (not a layer) insists that anyone linking against GLIBC is bound by the full GPL
Feb 16 16:30:54 <jeremiah> RST38h: Obviously I most certainly do want that. This is why I think the license should remain GPL and not be switched.
Feb 16 16:30:54 <Macer> hahaha
Feb 16 16:30:57 * GeneralAntilles begins throwing the unpopped kernels at the bottom of the bag at Stskeeps.
Feb 16 16:31:02 <johnx> RST38h, are you a lawyer?
Feb 16 16:31:14 <Macer> uh oh
Feb 16 16:31:17 <RST38h> johnx: No, but I am an asshole. Isn't it sufficient?
Feb 16 16:31:28 <Stskeeps> RST38h: except glibc is lgpl, which is a bit different..
Feb 16 16:31:38 <Stskeeps> also the system libraries exception yadda yadda
Feb 16 16:31:40 <jeremiah> RST38h: Please do not put words in my mouth. That is not what I said.
Feb 16 16:31:41 <Macer> Stskeeps: don't feed them!
Feb 16 16:31:43 <RST38h> Sts: see discussion above
Feb 16 16:32:10 <jeremiah> I hate this kind of discussion too, unfortunately you have to have it.
Feb 16 16:32:17 <RST38h> We don't.
Feb 16 16:32:18 <jeremiah> I will take this offline now.
Feb 16 16:32:20 <johnx> RST38h, lawyers are assholes with years of training. same relationship between masochists and professional skateboarders
Feb 16 16:32:22 <GeneralAntilles> Stskeeps, you get to watch Seinfeld over there?
Feb 16 16:32:37 <Stskeeps> GeneralAntilles: yes, but not these days
Feb 16 16:32:38 <RST38h> johnx: you don't need training to read a license
Feb 16 16:32:44 <GeneralAntilles> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Yada_Yada
Feb 16 16:32:56 <Macer> seinfeld?
Feb 16 16:32:56 <johnx> RST38h, and you don't need training to stand on a skateboard
Feb 16 16:33:14 <RST38h> johnx: obviously
Feb 16 16:33:17 <Stskeeps> GeneralAntilles: i dunno if it is from seinfeld.. it just entered my vocabulary at some point
Feb 16 16:33:17 <Macer> was a good show i suppose.. never got into it much tho
Feb 16 16:33:33 <GeneralAntilles> Stskeeps, it's not, but the Seinfeld reference is quite funny.
Feb 16 16:33:35 <Macer> haha.. the yadda yadda one? :)
Feb 16 16:33:37 <GeneralAntilles> Macer, that's sad.
Feb 16 16:33:42 <johnx> RST38h, but standing on a skateboard does not make you a good skateboarder and reading a license does not mean you understand it
Feb 16 16:33:48 <Macer> where he dates the girl and keeps saying it
Feb 16 16:34:01 <Macer> that was a pretty funny one
Feb 16 16:34:05 <GeneralAntilles> Anti-Dentite
Feb 16 16:34:28 <Pradeeptk> Hi guys, Is GtkStatusIcon working as expected on Maemo5, if not is there are work around
Feb 16 16:34:52 <RST38h> johnx: well, I hope we are not having a competition in understanding licenses :)
Feb 16 16:35:07 <Macer> i think you're both wrong
Feb 16 16:35:10 <Macer> but that's just me
Feb 16 16:35:16 <johnx> RST38h, that's what a 'discussion' (read: argument) about licenses *is*
Feb 16 16:35:27 <Macer> realistically the gpl and lgpl don't work
Feb 16 16:36:07 <Macer> anybody who writes something can always just say that there is proprietary code and just release the opened code and keep the rest
Feb 16 16:36:12 <RST38h> johnx: it is kinda old argument, especially considering that lgpl allowing dynamic linking of proprietary code is a long known fact
Feb 16 16:36:41 <Stskeeps> RST38h: i had several years of discussions if loaded .sos are "linking"
Feb 16 16:36:46 <Stskeeps> when the .sos are extensions
Feb 16 16:36:53 <RST38h> johnx: I mean, we can reenforce it by rereading the license, but it is pointless
Feb 16 16:37:01 <RST38h> Sts: Yes. That is dynamic linking.
Feb 16 16:37:03 <Stskeeps> after that i went for the bsd license on most of my stuff :P
Feb 16 16:37:04 <johnx> RST38h, from a 3rd person perspective I think you and jeremiah were probably just having issues defining your terms and seeing eye to eye...which seems to be the end result of most amateurs discussing licenses
Feb 16 16:37:26 <Macer> RST38h: then start taking companies to court because they didn't release the code which contained one line that was in some source that was under the gpl and not the lgpl? :)
Feb 16 16:37:31 <RST38h> johnx: Terms are defined in item #0 of LGPL
Feb 16 16:37:49 <Macer> it's too much of a hassle. like a parking ticket.
Feb 16 16:37:52 <RST38h> Macer: Yes, you can
Feb 16 16:38:02 <Macer> RST38h: i am sure you can.. but is it worth it?
Feb 16 16:38:10 <RST38h> Mcer: But it has nothing to do with LGPL issue
Feb 16 16:38:16 <Macer> then the company will just say "ok. fuck you all then.. we will not use open software anymore."
Feb 16 16:38:20 <Macer> the end.
Feb 16 16:38:44 <johnx> Macer, the reality is a lot more grey
Feb 16 16:38:58 <Macer> realistically the only people who would care would be open developers and tweakers
Feb 16 16:39:10 <Macer> the end users could care less about what kind of software is being used on something they like
Feb 16 16:39:28 <Macer> so you just lost .0001% of your base.. i think the company will survive :)
Feb 16 16:40:34 <johnx> companies use open source because somehow they think it will 1) save them money or 2) make them money
Feb 16 16:40:53 <Macer> i know. look at MS .. they're dying over there with all that closed source stuff
Feb 16 16:41:39 * Stskeeps hands out more popcorn
Feb 16 16:41:51 <Macer> Stskeeps: =) wow.. it's easy to get sucked in isn't it?
Feb 16 16:41:51 * johnx could really go for some
Feb 16 16:42:05 <Stskeeps> bacon flavoured chips are nice too.
Feb 16 16:42:07 <Macer> i'm going to make a pizza
Feb 16 16:42:08 <Macer> haha
Feb 16 16:42:17 * johnx makes a tuna sammich
Feb 16 16:42:33 <johnx> Macer, I concede the point. let's all start using MS products and let Linux die a slow death
Feb 16 16:42:44 <Macer> johnx: it's the opposite ;)
Feb 16 16:42:58 <Macer> we all use ms products and are allowing linux to live a slow life
Feb 16 16:43:46 <Macer> i'm just taking it from the perspective of business... if it becomes too much of a hassle.. and you have joe coder trying to sue you just because you wanted to keep something to yourselves for one reason or another...
Feb 16 16:44:04 <Macer> then you just close shop and tell joe coder to go fuck himself .. make his own shit
Feb 16 16:44:32 <Macer> because like i said.. you will not lose much of your base... joe coder and extreme tweaker are a very small portion of your market
Feb 16 16:44:43 <Macer> the rest are just the cattle
Feb 16 16:44:44 <GeneralAntilles> Open source seems to be making major gains in commercial software.
Feb 16 16:44:47 <johnx> right, but the reality is that a company with that little commitment to open source will find one or another annoyance that stops them sooner or later
Feb 16 16:44:51 <dphil314> most people in my IT dept don't know linux, they're all mcse
Feb 16 16:45:19 <dphil314> but they also get infested with viruses
Feb 16 16:45:28 <Macer> johnx: how much actual commercial open source stuff is out there that wasn't there already?
Feb 16 16:45:40 <johnx> dphil314, your IT people are infested with viruses? how's the health plan?
Feb 16 16:45:55 <dphil314> i dunno, i'm a contractor
Feb 16 16:45:55 <Macer> when you look at maemo.. it really is just the same old 10 yr old stuff :)
Feb 16 16:45:56 <johnx> Macer, what does that even mean?
Feb 16 16:46:23 <Stskeeps> dphil314: i had an argument with my brother that a CS degree was slightly more advanced than a mcse..
Feb 16 16:46:55 <Macer> older maybe
Feb 16 16:47:14 <Macer> anyways.. i'm hungry... talk to you guys later
Feb 16 16:47:26 <dphil314> just cooked pancakes
Feb 16 16:53:13 <dphil314> i'm able to run gtk programs in Xephyr outside the AF, but ab-sb-init.sh returns a bunch of errors: http://pastebin.ca/1339076
Feb 16 16:53:23 <Stskeeps> maemo5 pre-alpha2?
Feb 16 16:53:29 <Stskeeps> or diablo
Feb 16 16:53:30 <dphil314> 4.1
Feb 16 16:53:33 <dphil314> diablo
Feb 16 16:53:44 <dphil314> ubuntu intrepid
Feb 16 16:55:09 <dphil314> maybe it's the virtualbox vm i'm running ubuntu in
Feb 16 16:56:05 <Stskeeps> dphil314: those look fairly normal
Feb 16 16:56:11 <Stskeeps> it is warnings, not errors..
Feb 16 16:56:24 <dphil314> yes, the AF gui starts
Feb 16 16:57:23 <dphil314> but SB doesn't return to the command prompt for me to execute the program ... maybe if i put in background
Feb 16 16:57:27 <Stskeeps> yeah
Feb 16 16:57:59 <qwerty12> just press enter and you get a shell, albeit with af printing its crap
Feb 16 16:58:24 <dphil314> oh wait, it finally returned to the prompt
Feb 16 16:59:16 <dphil314> and the gtk prog runs in the AF
Feb 16 16:59:43 <dphil314> "woah ... i know kung fu"
Feb 16 17:03:40 <GeneralAntilles> lol . . . itT
Feb 16 17:04:46 <johnx> the mwc thread?
Feb 16 17:04:55 <GeneralAntilles> johnx, among other things.
Feb 16 17:05:01 <dneary> (Just wondering: I see Lardman at 369 karma points
Feb 16 17:05:07 <dneary> Is that less than he should have?
Feb 16 17:05:14 <dneary> Jaffa: Any ideas?
Feb 16 17:05:35 <wazd> I think my current Mer UI mockup sucks
Feb 16 17:05:46 <Stskeeps> got a new better one? ;)
Feb 16 17:05:48 <GeneralAntilles> You, we know you suck wazd. :P
Feb 16 17:05:56 <dphil314> i a user collects false karma, will he pay for it in the next life?
Feb 16 17:06:04 <thopiekar1> hey
Feb 16 17:06:08 <wazd> GeneralAntilles: shut your mouth, fatass © xD
Feb 16 17:06:34 <wazd> Stskeeps: no, but I have some ideas
Feb 16 17:06:41 <Stskeeps> alright
Feb 16 17:06:55 <wazd> Stskeeps: work on 480 adaptation told me that it sucks )
Feb 16 17:07:01 <dphil314> hello kitty?
Feb 16 17:07:05 <Stskeeps> wazd: hehe
Feb 16 17:07:12 <Stskeeps> wazd: we do not have to have same layout on every display
Feb 16 17:07:40 <Stskeeps> for good measure :P
Feb 16 17:07:52 <johnx> same layout on every display!
Feb 16 17:08:43 <wazd> I'll try to make unified layout
Feb 16 17:08:55 <wazd> it will rock I tell ya
Feb 16 17:09:07 <johnx> I was actually kidding... :P
Feb 16 17:09:09 <Stskeeps> johnx: so, 0.9, what should we focus on?
Feb 16 17:09:26 <wazd> johnx: And I'm not >:D
Feb 16 17:09:28 <Stskeeps> i would like some better kb layout support, the moblin patches and some of their applets maybe
Feb 16 17:09:46 <Stskeeps> fixing the jffs images (i just saw the pinning upgrade in action)
Feb 16 17:10:01 <johnx> I'm not sure how far I'll get but I'd like to make a concerted push towards adopting Ubuntu's hildon-desktop patches
Feb 16 17:10:11 <Stskeeps> yeah. they are those im talking about
Feb 16 17:10:23 <Stskeeps> how is zaurus going, still tslib issues?
Feb 16 17:10:51 <GeneralAntilles> Stskeeps, make it not suck, duh.
Feb 16 17:10:56 <johnx> yeah. it works great (as well as can be expected in 64MB of RAM) with the Xfbdev binary from Angstrom
Feb 16 17:11:15 <Stskeeps> GeneralAntilles: you should try 0.8 .. it is quite nice :P
Feb 16 17:11:17 <johnx> I *know* it will turn out to be some dumb mistake on my part
Feb 16 17:11:18 <Macer> holy shit the damn south park after the election is so damn funny
Feb 16 17:11:36 <Macer> sarah palin is like a british thief :)
Feb 16 17:12:35 <Stskeeps> i will give a cookie to whoever tells me how to redirect vagalume output to esd, over ip. :P
Feb 16 17:12:59 <Stskeeps> johnx: saw that nikolajhendel is mailing me a 770 for mer devel?
Feb 16 17:13:14 <johnx> yup. sounds good :)
Feb 16 17:13:32 <Stskeeps> yeah, now maybe i can see how much of a sardine can it is, for mer :P
Feb 16 17:13:34 <johnx> and AFB is getting one too from someone else
Feb 16 17:14:08 <johnx> and I keep looking at those teklogix psion netbooks ...
Feb 16 17:14:18 <Stskeeps> think i'm giving it to the fiancee once it runs mer, for live user testing..
Feb 16 17:14:41 <johnx> web surfing in 64MB of RAM is not so awesome :/
Feb 16 17:14:43 <Stskeeps> (yes, i am a horrible horrible person)
Feb 16 17:14:59 <Stskeeps> no, but on the other hand if it can rdesktop to a windows vm..
Feb 16 17:16:18 <Stskeeps> how is the 770 size-wise compared to the n800 anyway
Feb 16 17:16:54 <johnx> bigger when it's in that case/jacket thing IIRC
Feb 16 17:17:35 <Stskeeps> mm
Feb 16 17:21:22 <johnx> dpatch looks kind of awesome
Feb 16 17:21:35 * qwerty12 prefers quilt
Feb 16 17:21:52 <johnx> does quilt have something similar to dpatch-edit-patch?
Feb 16 17:21:52 <qwerty12> dpatch in sbox messed me around badly, dunno if it's because my permissions in /tmp may be odd
Feb 16 17:22:35 <pupnik> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIoP7V6U-aQ  New 3D demos running on the Pandora
Feb 16 17:22:47 <qwerty12> With quilt, it's "quilt new <nameofpatch>; quilt add <name of file to be patched>; quilt refresh"
Feb 16 17:23:32 <Stskeeps> pupnik: which is probably just a beagleboard inside.. :P
Feb 16 17:23:44 <johnx> Stskeeps, :P
Feb 16 17:23:46 <pupnik> oops
Feb 16 17:24:03 <pupnik> http://www.openpandora.de/blog.php
Feb 16 17:24:05 <johnx> pupnik, yup. I was talking to DJW when he was about to make those
Feb 16 17:24:11 <pupnik> cool
Feb 16 17:24:17 <Stskeeps> then again, if it -was- just a beagleboard inside and a lcd and keypads, and a casing, and battery
Feb 16 17:24:20 <Stskeeps> i would buy it.
Feb 16 17:24:42 <pupnik> i hope they dont dither about kbd layout
Feb 16 17:24:48 <pupnik> shipping march maybe?
Feb 16 17:24:52 <johnx> sigh
Feb 16 17:24:55 <johnx> maybe
Feb 16 17:25:32 <GeneralAntilles> lol
Feb 16 17:25:33 <johnx> getting closer to the RX51 now...but I have this funny feeling the RX51 will be a little more expensive than an N810WE...
Feb 16 17:25:36 <GeneralAntilles> Shipping never
Feb 16 17:25:53 <johnx> GeneralAntilles, sooo...bets on the RX51 price?
Feb 16 17:25:59 <GeneralAntilles> johnx, discount code.
Feb 16 17:26:05 <GeneralAntilles> ~$500 +/- $50
Feb 16 17:26:20 <Stskeeps> how much are the discounts usually anyway?
Feb 16 17:26:30 <pupnik> we better get hw accel video encoding from HD camera
Feb 16 17:26:33 <Stskeeps> not that i expect i would get one, due to my radical views and thundering talks..
Feb 16 17:26:52 <pupnik> nokia needs to deliver a wallop on the features front to drive sales during recession
Feb 16 17:27:05 <johnx> GeneralAntilles, funny cause the N96 goes for more with lesser hardware ...
Feb 16 17:27:15 <Stskeeps> yeah, but n96 is a phone
Feb 16 17:27:22 <johnx> :)
Feb 16 17:28:09 <johnx> hey rm_you_
Feb 16 17:28:15 <GeneralAntilles> Exactly as Stskeeps says.
Feb 16 17:28:24 <GeneralAntilles> The N97 is easily gonna run $700
Feb 16 17:28:27 <GeneralAntilles> With lesser hardware
Feb 16 17:28:30 <GeneralAntilles> But it's a phone.
Feb 16 17:28:55 <GeneralAntilles> Hell, the N96 is arguably lesser hardware than the N810.
Feb 16 17:28:59 <Corsac> erf, n85 is not yet really available that they release an n86
Feb 16 17:29:42 <johnx> GeneralAntilles, if it runs much less than $600 I'll be surprised
Feb 16 17:30:10 <GeneralAntilles> Stskeeps, about %60
Feb 16 17:30:11 <Jaffa> This quilt discussion reminds me that I have to look at migrating mud to quilt for patch mgmt
Feb 16 17:30:19 <GeneralAntilles> Both Stskeeps and johnx are assured discount codes. :P
Feb 16 17:30:34 <GeneralAntilles> johnx, I can't imagine them pricing it much over $600
Feb 16 17:30:38 <GeneralAntilles> They'll be right out of the market.
Feb 16 17:30:41 <Stskeeps> GeneralAntilles: then again, it is not healthy for the mer project we push our n800s away from daily usage ;)
Feb 16 17:30:56 <johnx> GeneralAntilles, unless it's intended to fit in with the rest of the N-Series line finally
Feb 16 17:31:46 <Macer> the n96 was a step backwards
Feb 16 17:31:52 * Macer hugs his n95
Feb 16 17:32:16 <Macer> wonder why they got rid of the 3d accel in the n96
Feb 16 17:32:23 <GeneralAntilles> Dual ARM9s
Feb 16 17:32:33 <Jaffa> Stskeeps: give your discount RX-51s away and use your N800s for mer all the time
Feb 16 17:32:48 <johnx> eh
Feb 16 17:32:56 <Stskeeps> Jaffa: hehe
Feb 16 17:33:09 <Stskeeps> Jaffa: or do the sane thing.. make your gf a Mer user and use it as cheap testing
Feb 16 17:33:10 <johnx> time will tell on prices I guess...but they bump the price quite a bit every time...
Feb 16 17:33:10 <Macer> n810we would be awesome if wimax actually existed anywhere but baltimore
Feb 16 17:33:45 <GeneralAntilles> johnx, $379, $400, $469
Feb 16 17:33:49 <GeneralAntilles> More than $100?
Feb 16 17:34:43 <GeneralAntilles> Still, what you _you_ care? Discount code. . . .
Feb 16 17:34:45 <GeneralAntilles> :P
Feb 16 17:36:11 <johnx> here's why I care: if the N900 attracted *only* people of the consumer variety and none or very few of the linux hacker/dev variety thins will not be awesome from a 3rd party software perspective
Feb 16 17:37:55 <GeneralAntilles> Meh, they don't attract that many people initially anyway
Feb 16 17:38:07 <GeneralAntilles> Then we get major price drops and people come pouring in.
Feb 16 17:38:10 <GeneralAntilles> Nothing new or different
Feb 16 17:38:12 <Stskeeps> i have had normal people wanting a tablet, which scared me
Feb 16 17:38:28 <GeneralAntilles> Besides, Nokia knows what they're about and they know an exorbitant price wont work.
Feb 16 17:38:30 <Stskeeps> cos they dont want to take their laptop to bed or take out the laptp for relaxing purposes
Feb 16 17:39:11 <Macer> the west wing where they shut down the government because of the budget is a riot
Feb 16 17:39:47 <johnx> GeneralAntilles, I worry about other parts of Nokia pushing the Maemo guys to 'monetize' the tablets...anyways, this is neither here nor there. hopefully by the time the RX51 is out Maemo/Hildon won't be a one vendor distro/platform anymore
Feb 16 17:40:22 <GeneralAntilles> I think it's likely they're already running plenty of profits for the tablets, personally.
Feb 16 17:40:47 <flavioribeiro> hey guys, what do you think about buy a n800 tablet? is it too old? the apps written to n810 runs in n800 devices?
Feb 16 17:41:21 <johnx> flavioribeiro, I love my n800 and yes, the N810 and N800 run exactly the same software
Feb 16 17:41:42 <johnx> basically it depends entirely on what you're doing with it whether it's worth it to wait for something new or buy right now
Feb 16 17:42:10 * GeneralAntilles sighs.
Feb 16 17:42:16 <GeneralAntilles> More 404s in maemo.org/development
Feb 16 17:42:20 <GeneralAntilles> Whoop-de-dooo!
Feb 16 17:44:23 <johnx> flavioribeiro, so what are you planning to do with it?
Feb 16 18:00:12 <mgedmin> flavioribeiro: I have to say I like my n810 better than I liked my n800
Feb 16 18:00:22 <mgedmin> even though I was initially convinced it would be the other way around
Feb 16 18:00:29 <mgedmin> aesthetically, the n810 is prettier
Feb 16 18:00:35 <mgedmin> and the hw keyboard is useful
Feb 16 18:00:44 <mgedmin> functionality-wise, they're about the same
Feb 16 18:00:52 <mgedmin> one has gps, the other has fm radio and full-size sd slots
Feb 16 18:01:03 <mgedmin> one is cheaper
Feb 16 18:01:35 <johnx> from my perspective: I do find that I use the SD slots quite a bit, especially for transferring from a digital camera while out and about (and also for dev stuff)
Feb 16 18:05:15 <mgedmin> finding microsd -> minisd adapters is a bit tricky
Feb 16 18:05:24 <mgedmin> and I'm not buying minisd cards, thank you very much
Feb 16 18:07:22 <flavioribeiro> so johnx, do you think 288 dollars its a good price to buy a n800?
Feb 16 18:07:36 <johnx> it depends on where you are I guess
Feb 16 18:07:44 <johnx> it's $220 for an N810 in the US right now
Feb 16 18:07:46 <mgedmin> didn't I see a n810 recently for a similar price?
Feb 16 18:07:50 <mgedmin> oh, even lower
Feb 16 18:08:01 <mgedmin> $269.99 on amazon
Feb 16 18:08:13 <mgedmin> I'd say 288 is too much for a n800, unless you really prefer the n800 to the n810
Feb 16 18:08:21 <flavioribeiro> hm..
Feb 16 18:09:02 <flavioribeiro> im in brazil
Feb 16 18:09:06 <mgedmin> ah
Feb 16 18:09:13 <mgedmin> let me guess, amazon won't ship there
Feb 16 18:09:32 * mgedmin is in lithuania
Feb 16 18:09:48 <flavioribeiro> no no, its a friend of mine thats selling the n800 for 650 reais
Feb 16 18:09:53 <flavioribeiro> 650,00 Brazil reais = 288,50445 U.S. dollars
Feb 16 18:09:55 <johnx> what is the normal price in Brazil for the N800 and N810?
Feb 16 18:10:27 <flavioribeiro> n810 is not being sold here
Feb 16 18:10:37 <mgedmin> "priceless" ;)
Feb 16 18:10:47 <flavioribeiro> just n800, per 799,90 reais
Feb 16 18:11:09 <flavioribeiro> about 350 dollars
Feb 16 18:11:53 <johnx> is there a way for you to buy it from the US?
Feb 16 18:13:06 <flavioribeiro> i have a friend thats living in us, but if i buy my friend's n800 i could divide the payments in 2 or maybe 3 months
Feb 16 18:13:42 <johnx> what do you plan to use it for?
Feb 16 18:14:58 <flavioribeiro> learning more about embedded linux, maybe try to install mamona and use the wi-fi connection to voip calls... canola to listen some songs at the bus
Feb 16 18:15:34 <johnx> then you'll probably be happy with an N800
Feb 16 18:15:52 <flavioribeiro> and why not make small apps in python to remember my activities at my routine
Feb 16 18:17:12 * Stskeeps ponders if mamona is still active
Feb 16 18:17:22 <flavioribeiro> i saw n97 cellphone thats almost released by nokia, do you think n97 can make nokia discontinue the tablets division or not?
Feb 16 18:17:46 <johnx> flavioribeiro, they're definitely continuing both :)
Feb 16 18:18:15 <flavioribeiro> good, there's any rumor of a new tablet?
Feb 16 18:18:33 <johnx> Nokia will release the next tablet sometime this year, probably sometime in the summer
Feb 16 18:22:38 <oli> johnx: something new, or just improved 8*0?
Feb 16 18:22:51 <timeless> jeremiah: still alive?
Feb 16 18:22:52 <johnx> oli, something new
Feb 16 18:23:27 <oli> johnx: what else can they put into tablet? there will be 2mpx (or more) cam - for sure
Feb 16 18:23:51 * GeneralAntilles sighs http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=264906&postcount=28
Feb 16 18:23:56 <johnx> oli, most of the info is linked from here: http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Maemo_roadmap/Fremantle#Fremantle_timeline
Feb 16 18:24:39 <GeneralAntilles> oli, HD camera.
Feb 16 18:24:54 <johnx> such a loaded term...
Feb 16 18:25:07 <GeneralAntilles> johnx, it means what it says.
Feb 16 18:25:09 <GeneralAntilles> It records 720p
Feb 16 18:25:59 <johnx> in this case we know what's happening...but "HD cam" could mean it takes 1280x720 stills or that it records 1920x1200 movies
Feb 16 18:26:21 <johnx> I was just commenting on the term...nothing more
Feb 16 18:26:23 <GeneralAntilles> It records 720p, according to the code I've poked around in.
Feb 16 18:26:53 <derf> If the image quality is as bad as the current camera, it might as well be 240p.
Feb 16 18:27:20 <johnx> I'm thinking they'll buy real sensors this time instead of just raiding the parts pile
Feb 16 18:27:28 <timeless> it isn't as bad as the current camera
Feb 16 18:27:29 <GeneralAntilles> derf, image quality was one of the things they were focusing one.
Feb 16 18:27:35 <timeless> although, the nice thing about low expectations
Feb 16 18:27:43 <timeless> we should be able to do better than last time :)
Feb 16 18:27:45 <GeneralAntilles> I've got two model numbers if you want to correlate them to other devices and see what their quality is, though.
Feb 16 18:27:54 <derf> Yeah... it wouldn't take much to be an improvement.
Feb 16 18:28:05 <timeless> derf: no promises
Feb 16 18:28:07 <johnx> the N800 kinda reminds me of the 1st gen Mazda RX-7...a neat concept made out of spare parts
Feb 16 18:28:11 <timeless> but i'm hoping for at least VGA quality
Feb 16 18:28:28 <GeneralAntilles> MT9T012 or ET8EK8
Feb 16 18:28:36 <johnx> timeless, 16 colors or 256 :>
Feb 16 18:28:57 <timeless> i'm hoping for 256
Feb 16 18:29:02 <timeless> but maybe it'll be grayscale? :)
Feb 16 18:29:09 <johnx> heh...or sepia?
Feb 16 18:30:18 <Stskeeps> sepia would be a little streampunk..
Feb 16 18:30:25 <Stskeeps> er, steampunk
Feb 16 18:30:42 <johnx> ...streampunks in a van down by the river...
Feb 16 18:31:00 * johnx reads about quilt
Feb 16 18:31:07 <wazd> my brain is working again, thanks to World of Goo )
Feb 16 18:31:47 <thopiekar> wazd: demo?
Feb 16 18:31:53 <timeless> actually
Feb 16 18:31:56 <timeless> i just tried
Feb 16 18:32:05 <timeless> and i've decided i want to downplay your expectations
Feb 16 18:32:13 <timeless> i just hope that opening the camera will
Feb 16 18:32:15 <timeless> 1. open the camera
Feb 16 18:32:25 <timeless> 2. show something that isn't a solid black box
Feb 16 18:32:31 <wazd> thopiekar: Actually I stole it :(
Feb 16 18:32:35 <timeless> that's what i got :)
Feb 16 18:32:45 <thopiekar> wazd: hehe me too..
Feb 16 18:32:48 <wazd> thopiekar: but it worth 20 bucks for sure
Feb 16 18:33:03 <wazd> thopiekar: I like graphics and music very much)
Feb 16 18:33:18 <thopiekar> wazd: true
Feb 16 18:33:29 <timeless> i pretend to work on the browser
Feb 16 18:33:33 <timeless> oops
Feb 16 18:34:24 <wazd> thopiekar: too bad that I can't play too much cause of touchpad :) This game needs wacom or good mouse :)
Feb 16 18:34:43 <Stskeeps> timeless pretends? :o
Feb 16 18:34:58 <timeless> well, i wave to the browser people, answer browser qustions
Feb 16 18:35:05 <thopiekar> but the best for brain train is "brain challange" of ngage.. I've got all games cracked^^
Feb 16 18:35:06 <timeless> make the other browser people happy
Feb 16 18:35:16 <thopiekar> It isn't very difficult..
Feb 16 18:36:57 <RST38h> urgh
Feb 16 18:37:08 <RST38h> that was bad
Feb 16 18:37:10 <GeneralAntilles> You know what might get people developing for Maemo?
Feb 16 18:37:22 <GeneralAntilles> If the documentation didn't suck totally half the time and 404 the other half.
Feb 16 18:37:45 <RST38h> General: Tell us something new =(
Feb 16 18:38:03 <GeneralAntilles> I wonder if moving to Forum Nokia will make it better or worse
Feb 16 18:38:39 <X-Fade> GeneralAntilles: New documentation is coming and it is a lot better.
Feb 16 18:38:41 <GeneralAntilles> Better not be anymore PDF-only releases, though.
Feb 16 18:38:54 <johnx> hmmm...something new...You know what might get people developing for Maemo? free Pizza and beer.
Feb 16 18:38:56 <X-Fade> It is html and PDF.
Feb 16 18:39:32 <johnx> after all, PDF is just an archive format extracted with pdftohtml :)
Feb 16 18:39:51 <X-Fade> Documentation is now created in Latex :)
Feb 16 18:40:02 <johnx> very cool
Feb 16 18:40:03 * RST38h is really afraid now
Feb 16 18:42:01 <wazd> GeneralAntilles: what might get people developing for Maemo?)
Feb 16 18:42:26 <johnx> wazd, i think we agreed free pizza and beer is the best incentive
Feb 16 18:42:28 <timeless> gan: so... I'm going to add nitro/crash-reporter to the list of localized packages
Feb 16 18:43:12 <Stskeeps> johnx: free clothes, - tshirts!
Feb 16 18:43:14 <Stskeeps> :P
Feb 16 18:43:43 <Stskeeps> (a way to attract student developers)
Feb 16 18:43:51 <johnx> heh...anything that saves geeks time from doing laundry/feeding themselves/getting drunk
Feb 16 18:44:34 <wazd> johnx: aw, if pizza and beer then count me xC
Feb 16 18:44:35 <GeneralAntilles> Is NITRO in a useful repo yet?
Feb 16 18:44:37 <wazd> xD
Feb 16 18:44:38 <GeneralAntilles> and does it actually work?
Feb 16 18:44:40 <RST38h> ability to make money from their projects will get people coding
Feb 16 18:44:50 * Stskeeps watches b-mans installer install
Feb 16 18:45:10 <qwerty12-mer> GeneralAntilles, some nokia repo with display name of Crash Reporter
Feb 16 18:45:12 <timeless> gan: well
Feb 16 18:45:18 <timeless> it doesn't work in x86 for a bunch of reasons
Feb 16 18:45:25 <timeless> i'm about to file a bug about one of them
Feb 16 18:45:42 <timeless> and it probably wouldn't work in Mer-armel unless the kernel is built w/ a certain hack
Feb 16 18:51:01 <GeneralAntilles> It's in the SDK repo, of course.
Feb 16 18:51:21 <GeneralAntilles> So they expect people to reboot-loop their tablets to help them collect crash reports.
Feb 16 18:51:47 <RST38h> wazd: I am being spammed by somebody offering 1000 m^2 of A-class office space at Tverskaya
Feb 16 18:52:18 <RST38h> wazd: "only" $900/m^2 a year to lease. Is this what "crisis" means? =)
Feb 16 18:53:44 <timeless> gan: yeah well um
Feb 16 18:53:57 <timeless> he thought it was in extras
Feb 16 18:53:59 * timeless shrugs
Feb 16 18:54:05 <timeless> i grabbed it from the internal repo
Feb 16 18:54:07 <GeneralAntilles> lol?
Feb 16 18:54:29 <GeneralAntilles> Yeah, sorry, I forgot I surrounded the grocery store with landmines.
Feb 16 18:54:34 <GeneralAntilles> Good luck getting the sugar.
Feb 16 18:55:35 <timeless> awww
Feb 16 18:56:23 <wazd> RST38h: well, 900$ is pretty cheap :)
Feb 16 18:56:34 * qwerty12-mer stays away from grocery stores in SPB, FL
Feb 16 18:57:21 <wazd> RST38h: A-class office space in my house (Valovaya st.) costs bout the same
Feb 16 18:57:54 <wazd> RST38h: But it's sadovoye koltso on the other hand)
Feb 16 18:59:56 <RST38h> wazd: Should I lease it for $900k/year? :)
Feb 16 19:01:23 * RST38h will probably just go with that Viagra spam instead...
Feb 16 19:05:04 <timeless> gan, ok https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4124
Feb 16 19:05:13 <timeless> that should cover the kernel stupidity
Feb 16 19:05:23 <wazd> RST38h: why not?)
Feb 16 19:05:26 <timeless> there's enough info there to work around the lame hack they're using
Feb 16 19:05:54 <RST38h> wazd: Can I claim lack of funds? =)
Feb 16 19:06:19 <GeneralAntilles> Hum, Ovi Store for Maemo.
Feb 16 19:06:39 <wazd> GeneralAntilles: whwhawha?
Feb 16 19:07:21 <wazd> btw, separate app for store is totally lame
Feb 16 19:07:36 <GeneralAntilles> wazd, pondering, mostly.
Feb 16 19:07:41 <GeneralAntilles> With Qt that might be more feasible.
Feb 16 19:07:58 <wazd> store should be web based
Feb 16 19:08:29 <GeneralAntilles> Web on mobile devices is still to irritating and slow
Feb 16 19:08:36 <GeneralAntilles> Both options should be available.
Feb 16 19:08:54 <GeneralAntilles> I'd much rather browse applications through h-a-m than Downloads.
Feb 16 19:08:56 <wazd> GeneralAntilles: make special styles for different mobiles
Feb 16 19:09:09 <GeneralAntilles> Bleh
Feb 16 19:09:25 <wazd> GeneralAntilles: I want to buy an app wherever I am
Feb 16 19:09:31 <ShadowJK> store as app probably comes from s60 and s40. lets you pay through sms
Feb 16 19:09:42 <GeneralAntilles> wazd, what does that have to do with web or not?
Feb 16 19:09:46 <RST38h> There is a mess with nokia app stores
Feb 16 19:10:10 <RST38h> Let us see:
Feb 16 19:10:18 <RST38h> 1. There is Nokia NGage
Feb 16 19:10:25 <RST38h> 2. There is Nokia Download!
Feb 16 19:10:33 <RST38h> 3. There is upcoming Nokia Ovi store
Feb 16 19:10:44 <wazd> I want to come to my gf, open her browser, download/buy software I need, sync it to the phone
Feb 16 19:10:54 <RST38h> Neither #1 nor #2 work well. My guess is that #3 will be as much of a failure
Feb 16 19:11:01 <ShadowJK> there's the "Catalogs" thing too
Feb 16 19:11:10 <wazd> Or I can send an sms to her with link to the app she needs for example
Feb 16 19:11:10 <timeless> tableteer!
Feb 16 19:11:13 <RST38h> wazd: This is perfectly doable with third party stores
Feb 16 19:11:41 <ShadowJK> What I really don't want is "sync it to the phone" :-)
Feb 16 19:11:41 <wazd> RST38h: yep, cause the're webbased)
Feb 16 19:11:54 <GeneralAntilles> wazd, why would that require being _web-only_?
Feb 16 19:12:07 <GeneralAntilles> Why not have both?
Feb 16 19:12:12 <GeneralAntilles> So you have the convenience of web
Feb 16 19:12:16 <GeneralAntilles> and the non-suck of native.
Feb 16 19:12:22 <GeneralAntilles> Just like Downloads and Application Manager.
Feb 16 19:12:35 <slonopotamus> hehe
Feb 16 19:12:38 <timeless> hey
Feb 16 19:12:39 <lcuk> because most apps come alive when you connect them into a network
Feb 16 19:12:45 <wazd> GeneralAntilles: app should be installed
Feb 16 19:12:52 <timeless> how much does apple take as a cut from iTunes store sales?
Feb 16 19:13:01 <wazd> GeneralAntilles: and it should be approved
Feb 16 19:13:14 <wazd> GeneralAntilles: this crap stops platform developing
Feb 16 19:13:29 <GeneralAntilles> wazd, I'm still not understanding why web-only is a requirement.
Feb 16 19:13:36 <ShadowJK> oh hey, there's "Nokia Software Market" too
Feb 16 19:13:55 <slonopotamus> so, hot'n'fresh gentoo-with-x11-on-n8x0 docs! http://slonopotamus.org/gentoo-on-n8x0#step_4_x11
Feb 16 19:14:12 <GeneralAntilles> timeless, 30%?
Feb 16 19:14:20 <ShadowJK> actually, this "Catalogs" app that was preinstalled on my E70 seems to be a frontend program to many stores, including some WB and EA store
Feb 16 19:14:34 <johnx> slonopotamus, how's openoffice?
Feb 16 19:14:37 <wazd> GeneralAntilles: well, if app-store will give me web link to the app then I don't mind, it's just additional work
Feb 16 19:14:56 <lcuk> installing apps by a single fiddly one liner is not going to cut it in todays consumer market
Feb 16 19:15:00 <slonopotamus> johnx, wifi & bt first
Feb 16 19:15:15 <johnx> slonopotamus, just kidding. congrats on the release :)
Feb 16 19:15:18 <lcuk> they expect a catalogue with pictures and descriptions and reviews and ratings
Feb 16 19:15:34 <lcuk> like maemo.org/downloads, but directly on the device and slick
Feb 16 19:15:45 <slonopotamus> johnx, i know :) wait a bit, i'll have it
Feb 16 19:16:12 <ShadowJK> iirc you can click on things on maemo downloads and it installs on the device?
Feb 16 19:17:04 <X-Fade> Mobile (bar)codes would make more sense when we have a HD cam?
Feb 16 19:17:20 <X-Fade> At least you wouldn't have to type the url? :)
Feb 16 19:17:21 <lcuk> X-Fade, technically the barcode database can sit locally for lookups and checks
Feb 16 19:17:32 <lcuk> but the mobile site should link with stores and use that code in numerous places
Feb 16 19:17:37 <GeneralAntilles> X-Fade, more importantly, a camera where you can see what you're taking a picture of. ;)
Feb 16 19:17:51 <X-Fade> GeneralAntilles: And one that has focus?
Feb 16 19:18:02 <ShadowJK> hm
Feb 16 19:18:05 <GeneralAntilles> There's a chip for that in the kernel.
Feb 16 19:18:07 <lcuk> barcodes arent that bad to scan though
Feb 16 19:18:29 <ShadowJK> am I the only one who's never downloaded a program for cellphone/tablet on a computer, always on the device itself? :-)
Feb 16 19:18:54 <Stskeeps> ShadowJK: you have been blessed with sane data plan..
Feb 16 19:19:21 <ShadowJK> Maybe also because if I was in front of a computer I'd use software on the computer
Feb 16 19:19:41 <ShadowJK> and whenever I've needed software on the cellphone it's been because I haven't had access to a computer
Feb 16 19:19:55 <ShadowJK> and then I've just downloaded what I needed
Feb 16 19:25:26 <guysoft42> hey, my fn buttion stoped working on my N810. i am using the newest maemo system. and i think it stoped due to an upgrade, what can i do?
Feb 16 19:27:03 <ShadowJK> btw, the biggest reason why you'd want to have it web-based: sane resume download support
Feb 16 19:27:12 <ShadowJK> All these random apps always fuck it up :-)
Feb 16 19:27:22 <Stskeeps> guysoft42: you were using him-hebrew or something weren't you?
Feb 16 19:27:53 <guysoft42> Stskeeps, yes, that package did not upgrade..
Feb 16 19:28:00 <tourett_> http://change.pennergame.de/change_please/2520711/
Feb 16 19:28:31 <Stskeeps> guysoft42: possibly your xkb layout that screwed up then.. fn is a bit of a strange creature on tablets
Feb 16 19:28:51 <guysoft42> Stskeeps, is there a way to reset it?
Feb 16 19:29:23 * timeless grumbles
Feb 16 19:29:30 <timeless> i can't find crash reporter anywhere
Feb 16 19:29:39 <Stskeeps> the invisible product
Feb 16 19:29:41 <timeless> i think crash-reporter won't appear until they fix the throbber
Feb 16 19:29:47 <timeless> we tried to fix it a few hours ago
Feb 16 19:29:56 <timeless> i think i was supposed to wait for the next sdk sync
Feb 16 19:29:59 <timeless> brb
Feb 16 19:30:10 <Stskeeps> guysoft42: not sure
Feb 16 19:30:20 <Stskeeps> easiest way is to start again from a fresh reflash i gues
Feb 16 19:30:20 <Stskeeps> s
Feb 16 19:30:35 <guysoft42> Stskeeps, not for me, i have a lot of data here
Feb 16 19:31:02 <guysoft42> Stskeeps, and it won't mean it will go away..
Feb 16 19:31:23 <guysoft42> Stskeeps, how can i have a look to see what is worng.. isn't it connected to xmodmap or something?
Feb 16 19:32:08 <Stskeeps> i didn't look closely at him-hebrew, but it is XKB related.. maybe there is a setxkb* thing
Feb 16 19:33:30 * Stskeeps wonders if it is bad forum manner to have a thread per release
Feb 16 19:34:38 <GeneralAntilles> Stskeeps, there are a number of different schools of thought. ;)
Feb 16 19:35:19 <Stskeeps> well, i usually justify it to myself by attaching some kind of discussion piece.. not a very flammatory one this time around though
Feb 16 19:36:44 <GeneralAntilles> Most people would say new thread per, anyway.
Feb 16 19:37:50 <johnx> I vote new thread = new release
Feb 16 19:38:09 <GeneralAntilles> So if I start a 0.9 thread you have to release? :P
Feb 16 19:38:14 <johnx> it's too hard to figure out what's what without a threaded forum otherwise
Feb 16 19:38:39 <johnx> GeneralAntilles, yeah. I'll release. then you'll see why up to now Stskeeps is the one who releases :P
Feb 16 19:40:22 * johnx sleeps
Feb 16 19:41:25 <guysoft42> Stskeeps, ok.. i tried as a test to remove the hebrew package, and its still not working
Feb 16 19:41:28 <guysoft42> and i did a reboot..
Feb 16 19:41:30 <rm_you_> night johnx
Feb 16 19:41:44 <johnx> 'night rm_you. catch you tomorrow maybe
Feb 16 19:41:50 <rm_you> :)
Feb 16 19:42:34 <guysoft42> i would have posted this at tablet talks, but i don't seem to be getting my activation e-mail
Feb 16 19:43:20 <guysoft42> Stskeeps, ok um, solved it.. but i am not sure how - when i installed back the hebrew is started working
Feb 16 19:44:48 <RST38h> rm_me
Feb 16 19:45:25 <rm_you> indeed.
Feb 16 19:49:58 <lcuk> i love bacon, but this is a bit ott: http://www.lolpix.com/pictures/12/Funny_Pictures_487.htm
Feb 16 19:51:15 <Proteous> there's a lot of muscle definition on that arm, totaly doesn't look like he/she eats lots of bacon
Feb 16 19:51:35 <Proteous> maybe that's a leg
Feb 16 19:51:37 <Proteous> who knows
Feb 16 19:51:46 <rm_you> O_o
Feb 16 19:51:48 <lcuk> muscle definition? i didnt get past the fat
Feb 16 19:51:58 <Proteous> I was being sarcastic
Feb 16 19:51:58 <lcuk> maybe its a pig..
Feb 16 19:52:31 <lcuk> ello rm_you
Feb 16 19:52:46 <rm_you> hey lcuk, luck^
Feb 16 19:52:52 <rm_you> you guys need to duel it out
Feb 16 19:53:04 <lcuk> not really, i know where i stand
Feb 16 19:53:17 <Proteous> right next to the bacon, we know
Feb 16 19:53:19 * lcuk is knackered totally today
Feb 16 19:54:24 * X-Fade too
Feb 16 19:55:11 <lcuk> hiya X-Fade properly now lol, how was your vacation
Feb 16 19:56:03 <X-Fade> Hi lcuk. It was great.
Feb 16 19:56:11 <X-Fade> But the backlog isn't ;)
Feb 16 19:56:21 <lcuk> heh yeah, i had a minor emergency :P
Feb 16 19:56:41 <lcuk> but ive decided to go to the source of the problem for next time
Feb 16 19:57:02 <X-Fade> lcuk: Minor emergency?
Feb 16 19:57:20 <X-Fade> Deleted your svn repo? :)
Feb 16 19:57:30 <lcuk> yeah slashdot syndication sent flat text over and it go merged with the url
Feb 16 19:57:56 <lcuk> im gonna send a note to taco before i make anotherp osting and explain the problem
Feb 16 19:58:14 <luke-jr> X-Fade: that is one benefit of Bazaar/git/darcs/etc :p
Feb 16 19:58:18 <luke-jr> everyone has a backup
Feb 16 19:58:35 <X-Fade> luke-jr: That is what we have git.maemo.org for ;)
Feb 16 19:59:17 <lcuk> does git allow a subset of users to access the repo only, ie if i wanted a small cleanup phase before something went public
Feb 16 19:59:31 <lcuk> but needed to enlist some help
Feb 16 19:59:50 <luke-jr> I dont' know about git, but bazaar is quite handy
Feb 16 20:00:09 <lcuk> X-Fade, i'm guessing you didnt see the latest video then did you :D
Feb 16 20:00:21 <luke-jr> with bazaar, you'd just make a local branch, push it somewhere public for help, then push to mainline
Feb 16 20:00:25 <X-Fade> lcuk: No? url? :)
Feb 16 20:00:40 <lcuk> luke-jr, i have local branches already, ill have to set something up
Feb 16 20:00:47 <lcuk> i dont want the code public until im ready :)
Feb 16 20:01:02 <luke-jr> lcuk: with bazaar, it's simply "bzr push lp:~user/projectname/branchname"
Feb 16 20:01:03 <lcuk> x-fade, its a proof of concept thats grown stronger this week :) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMXp0Dg_UaY
Feb 16 20:01:12 <lcuk> luke-jr, but thats public you just said that
Feb 16 20:01:17 <luke-jr> yeah
Feb 16 20:01:26 <lcuk> thats not what i want
Feb 16 20:01:51 * lcuk wants to stay in his cathederal whilst hes putting the things together
Feb 16 20:03:41 <wazd> lcuk: I already know this link by heart I think :D
Feb 16 20:03:56 <lcuk> lol wazd :) better than me then
Feb 16 20:04:03 <lcuk> there will be a new one to remember soon ;)
Feb 16 20:04:03 <X-Fade> lcuk: Impressive!
Feb 16 20:04:27 <lcuk> x-fade :) yeah i thought so myself, this is a little bit later and a bit more is in that is recognisable: http://liqbase.net/liq.20090214_130409.lib.scr.png
Feb 16 20:04:48 <lcuk> and the calendar actually has real dates and scrolls and stuff as well now :$
Feb 16 20:05:06 <lcuk> and zooming onto images and stuff is so fluid and natural
Feb 16 20:06:20 <wazd> lcuk: you definitely need to buy pair of jeans, nike shoes and black polo :D
Feb 16 20:06:45 <thopiekar> hey X-Fade I wanted to upload some packages to extras and I have to upload the .changes-files first.. but the web-interface says that the file(s) are not valid..
Feb 16 20:07:15 <X-Fade> thopiekar: Well the web-interface is a perfect application and doesn't lie :D
Feb 16 20:07:24 <wazd> lcuk: cause liqbase is so unpresedented extraordinary gorgeous, best release ever :)
Feb 16 20:07:48 <X-Fade> thopiekar: I'll check what's up..
Feb 16 20:07:55 <thopiekar> but the packages and the .changes are made with dpkg-bp -rfakeroot...
Feb 16 20:07:55 <thopiekar> http://rapidshare.com/files/197282256/streamripper_armel_all.tar.gz
Feb 16 20:08:26 <lcuk> wazd :) its only the start though.  im building what *I* think a touch interface should be.  i am simply determined enough to go through with it
Feb 16 20:08:53 <thopiekar> X-Fade: these are all files I used to build streamripper and it's dependences..
Feb 16 20:09:28 <lcuk> thopiekar, does it give a reason why its rejected it
Feb 16 20:09:34 <lcuk> "error: not enough bacon"
Feb 16 20:10:05 <thopiekar>  File upload error. You didn't upload a valid .changes file.
Feb 16 20:10:07 <jeremiah> That is always the reason for error - not enough bacon.
Feb 16 20:10:36 <lcuk> heh jeremiah :D hi by the way, good to see we share common ground
Feb 16 20:11:16 <lcuk> did you just see the link up there ^^^ to youtube
Feb 16 20:11:19 <jeremiah> lcuk: A man who like bacon is a good man. :)
Feb 16 20:11:31 <jeremiah> No, I missed that, can you pass it my way again.
Feb 16 20:11:42 <lcuk>  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMXp0Dg_UaY
Feb 16 20:11:51 <jeremiah> I saw that it said "proof of concept" but I didn't know about what . . .
Feb 16 20:11:55 <jeremiah> ah there it is
Feb 16 20:12:01 <X-Fade> thopiekar: There is a , in your email address?
Feb 16 20:12:28 <GeneralAntilles> jeremiah, just, fyi, -community usually isn't a very effective way to get to Nokia. :\
Feb 16 20:12:42 <thopiekar> no just thopiekar at googlemail.com...
Feb 16 20:13:01 <X-Fade> thopiekar: Check the changed-by line.
Feb 16 20:13:08 <jeremiah> GeneralAntilles: Thanks, I wasn't sure where to send that email.
Feb 16 20:13:29 <jeremiah> What do you recommend? -council?
Feb 16 20:13:39 <GeneralAntilles> jeremiah, bugzilla, usually.
Feb 16 20:13:46 <GeneralAntilles> That, or hunt down Quim and accost him.
Feb 16 20:13:50 <jeremiah> Bugzilla it is then.
Feb 16 20:13:55 <GeneralAntilles> It varies a bit on the issue.
Feb 16 20:14:01 <GeneralAntilles> jeremiah, did you see the bug I linked earlier?
Feb 16 20:14:05 <jeremiah> Quim hunting, a popular pastim
Feb 16 20:14:07 <jeremiah> e
Feb 16 20:14:17 <jeremiah> GeneralAntilles: No, I didn't. Bad me.
Feb 16 20:14:25 <thopiekar> X-Fade: what do you mean with the changed-by line?
Feb 16 20:14:28 <GeneralAntilles> https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3922
Feb 16 20:14:31 <jeremiah> I should be looking at the bugzilla instance more often
Feb 16 20:14:38 <lcuk> GeneralAntilles, you lose karma if you dont follow up on bugs
Feb 16 20:14:51 <X-Fade> thopiekar: Changed-By: in your .changes file..
Feb 16 20:14:57 <lcuk> jeremiah, you need a tablet with bugzilla rss feed :D (does one exist?)
Feb 16 20:15:06 <X-Fade> thopiekar: for stream ripper
Feb 16 20:16:22 <GeneralAntilles> jeremiah, look at https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=303 and https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=630 if you want some interesting historical context.
Feb 16 20:16:25 <thopiekar> X-Fade: aaahh I see :)
Feb 16 20:16:30 <thopiekar> X-Fade: thanks
Feb 16 20:16:42 <X-Fade> thopiekar: Not sure if that is the problem, but try it out ;)
Feb 16 20:16:46 <jeremiah> GeneralAntilles: Can we do a crazy find command, like this, find / -name changelog -exec sed 's/integrator/some_one/g' {} \; ?
Feb 16 20:16:58 <X-Fade> thopiekar: You might want to look at a proper Section too.
Feb 16 20:17:14 <GeneralAntilles> jeremiah, http://www.octofish.net/bugjar/ is good for tracking b.m.o if you don't want to watch for all bug changes.
Feb 16 20:18:04 <lcuk> why dont all the actually people employed around maemo actually sit in some big control centre?
Feb 16 20:18:14 <jeremiah> Sweet, good stuff GeneralAntilles, if that is your real name.
Feb 16 20:18:17 <lcuk> that way you could all share data
Feb 16 20:18:24 <jeremiah> lcuk: We do!
Feb 16 20:18:32 <jeremiah> It is called "Planet Earth."
Feb 16 20:18:46 <X-Fade> jeremiah: I thought it was the collective?
Feb 16 20:18:49 <GeneralAntilles> jeremiah, http://maemo.org/profile/view/generalantilles/ ;)
Feb 16 20:19:02 <Meiz_n810> jeremiah: where's that?
Feb 16 20:19:13 <jeremiah> No! We're an anarcho syndicalist commune!
Feb 16 20:19:45 <lcuk> BUG
Feb 16 20:19:50 <jeremiah> Meiz_n810: To the left of Mars. :)
Feb 16 20:20:00 <lcuk> GeneralAntilles, you have been given ratings for thumbing up jeremiah twice
Feb 16 20:20:01 <jeremiah> GeneralAntilles: You have some serious karma dude. :)
Feb 16 20:20:15 <lcuk> jeremiah, you should only have been thumbed by GeneralAntilles
Feb 16 20:20:16 <lcuk> once
Feb 16 20:20:23 <qwerty12-mer> Meiz_n810, around?
Feb 16 20:20:36 <X-Fade> jeremiah: Keep filing bugs and up your karma :)
Feb 16 20:20:38 <Meiz_n810> qwerty12-mer: here
Feb 16 20:20:57 <GeneralAntilles> Bug filing is great for karma whoring.
Feb 16 20:21:08 * lcuk is not a whore though :P
Feb 16 20:21:13 <jeremiah> I am a karma whore, and I am not ashamed.
Feb 16 20:21:19 <qwerty12-mer> Meiz_n810, I've sorted the starting problems with my mer powerlaunch port, wanna test?
Feb 16 20:21:32 * qwerty12-mer is a karma whore.
Feb 16 20:21:33 <GeneralAntilles> Blogs can be pretty good, too, if you know how to say what people want to hear. ;)
Feb 16 20:21:38 <jeremiah> lcuk: I am having trouble playing the YouTube stuff, but is that a port of Qt you are working on?
Feb 16 20:22:03 <GeneralAntilles> lcuk's infernal machine
Feb 16 20:22:09 <lcuk> jeremiah, :) no, qt runs too slowly
Feb 16 20:22:30 <jeremiah> Had to switch OS to get youtube to co-operate.
Feb 16 20:22:31 <Meiz_n810> qwerty12-mer: um, maybe not today, i wanna sleep now. tomorrow, ok?
Feb 16 20:22:46 <qwerty12-mer> heh, fair enough :D
Feb 16 20:23:03 <Meiz_n810> PING
Feb 16 20:23:07 <Stskeeps> http://internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=264958 <- Mer 0.8
Feb 16 20:23:15 <Meiz_n810> ~PING
Feb 16 20:23:16 <MERbot> ->PONG.
Feb 16 20:23:16 <infobot> ~pong
Feb 16 20:23:27 <jeremiah> lcuk: Impressive.
Feb 16 20:23:45 <GeneralAntilles> Stskeeps, does this mean I have to blog now? :(
Feb 16 20:24:13 <lcuk> jeremiah, :) it is gonna have all my existing liqbase applications in soon, heres later progress http://liqbase.net/liq.20090214_130409.lib.scr.png
Feb 16 20:24:22 <qwerty12-mer> Stskeeps, gonna upload powerlaunch to the builder, inclusion in 0.9? *grin*
Feb 16 20:24:45 <Stskeeps> GeneralAntilles: think so
Feb 16 20:24:45 <lcuk> (the sketches and images zoom in the same way and lead to apps on the data)
Feb 16 20:24:50 <Stskeeps> qwerty12-mer: hehe, yeah
Feb 16 20:25:30 <lcuk> Stskeeps, contrats :D at this rate we should be on version 3.5 by june!
Feb 16 20:25:43 <lcuk> congrats even
Feb 16 20:27:31 * qwerty12-mer wonders why dch in mer is using my hostname from maemo
Feb 16 20:35:12 <MaceN800> hi
Feb 16 20:35:31 <MaceN800> have to work on my fbsd servers more
Feb 16 20:41:47 <X-Fade> Spamming like mad... Complaints -> dneary  ;)
Feb 16 20:42:19 <dneary> X-Fade: That's why my email address is up there :)
Feb 16 20:46:51 <X-Fade> Ok, I'm out of here. Good night everybody.
Feb 16 20:46:55 <Mek> am I missing something, or do those referendum mails don't mention how/where/when to actually vote?
Feb 16 20:47:56 <RST38h> http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0%2C2817%2C2341032%2C00.asp
Feb 16 20:48:11 <RST38h> dneary <-- evil spammer indeed
Feb 16 20:48:44 <wazd> RST38h: second :)
Feb 16 20:48:46 <X-Fade> RST38h: At least he doesn't seem to sell anything :)
Feb 16 20:48:55 <GeneralAntilles> Spamtastic!
Feb 16 20:48:59 <GeneralAntilles> Later, X-Fade.
Feb 16 20:49:01 <GeneralAntilles> Welcome back. :)
Feb 16 20:49:20 <X-Fade> Ehm yeah, really gone now ;)
Feb 16 20:49:23 <RST38h> X-Fade: Who knows? Maybe he is just sneaky at advancing his goals!
Feb 16 20:51:20 * b-man is amazed when his N800 has been running for 5½ hours without using a charger
Feb 16 20:52:06 <Stskeeps> ubuntu?
Feb 16 20:52:13 <b-man> maemo
Feb 16 20:52:24 <b-man> and ubuntu
Feb 16 20:52:48 * RST38h wonders if ARM manages to push its cpus into any netbooks
Feb 16 20:52:48 <dneary> Mek: It's possible
Feb 16 20:53:22 <b-man> RST38h: eventually ;)
Feb 16 20:54:05 <aquatix> RST38h: they already did
Feb 16 20:54:17 <aquatix> there was some 100 EUR netbook here in a toy shop
Feb 16 20:54:22 <RST38h> aquatix: no, I don't mean obscure chinese stuff
Feb 16 20:54:27 <aquatix> ah :)
Feb 16 20:54:37 <RST38h> I mean real devices from the likes of Toshiba
Feb 16 20:55:33 <fireun> arnt there a couple netbooks that can boot an arm cpu in "lite" mode, or a full cpu when in "desktop" mode?
Feb 16 20:55:38 <fireun> I thought that was a new trend....
Feb 16 20:55:51 <aquatix> that HTC thing?
Feb 16 20:56:03 <aquatix> quite old already even
Feb 16 20:56:53 * fireun shrugs, still only using a 770 here
Feb 16 20:57:00 <fireun> I like it oldskool
Feb 16 20:57:28 * aquatix is happy with his n810
Feb 16 20:57:43 <aquatix> it's able to play my Invader Zim episodes without transcoding
Feb 16 20:57:54 <fireun> I'd happily trade my two 770s for an n8xx
Feb 16 20:58:35 <aquatix> http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/16/arm-debuts-sparrow-multicore-netbook-processor/
Feb 16 20:58:47 <aquatix> RST38h: well, there's the first step :)
Feb 16 20:58:49 * Stskeeps adds beagleboard instructions to the mer 0.8 page
Feb 16 21:00:23 <Stskeeps> dneary: so, i got 2/3 and 3/3 but not 1/3? :P
Feb 16 21:00:39 <dneary> Stskeeps: Check your spal
Feb 16 21:00:46 <dneary> Or it will arrive during the night
Feb 16 21:02:22 <Stskeeps> k
Feb 16 21:09:23 <dneary> Night!
Feb 16 21:10:23 <Jaffa> ev'ning
Feb 16 21:10:29 <Jaffa> dneary: thanks for sorting those
Feb 16 21:11:37 <dneary> Wasn't easy :)
Feb 16 21:11:41 <dneary> een a long day
Feb 16 21:12:01 <qwerty12_N800> Can I vote tomorrow? Copy & pasting and gmail on a tablet can test your patience :)
Feb 16 21:12:54 * rm_you still randomly has http://www.legacyoflies.com/devuploads/general_antilles/rock%20on.mp3 in his winamp playlist
Feb 16 21:13:03 * rm_you prods GeneralAntilles 
Feb 16 21:14:10 <GeneralAntilles> lol
Feb 16 21:14:12 <dneary> qwerty12_N800: You have all week
Feb 16 21:14:27 <qwerty12_N800> dneary: hah, thanks :)
Feb 16 21:14:37 <herzi> dneary: where can I see my karma?
Feb 16 21:14:43 <GeneralAntilles> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2mNQp0hhqA
Feb 16 21:14:47 <GeneralAntilles> rm_you, ^
Feb 16 21:14:52 <dneary> herzi: maemo.org/profile
Feb 16 21:15:00 <Jaffa> GeneralAntilles: I'm writing up a council announcement
Feb 16 21:15:19 <herzi> dneary: I get HTTP:500 error when logging in on maemo org for weeks
Feb 16 21:15:45 <dneary> herzi: Are you trying http or https, or does it make a difference?
Feb 16 21:15:46 <Jaffa> herzi: http://maemo.org/profile/view/herzi shouldn't require a logon.
Feb 16 21:15:58 <herzi> http errors
Feb 16 21:16:05 <qwerty12_N800> Stskeeps: it's up to the developer if he/she promotes the i386 version of their app. I don't promote x86 versions of my things
Feb 16 21:16:08 <herzi> https errors, too
Feb 16 21:16:12 <Stskeeps> qwerty12_N800: alright
Feb 16 21:16:35 <qwerty12_N800> extras-devel has both by default
Feb 16 21:17:36 <herzi> Jaffa: thanks
Feb 16 21:17:56 <herzi> dneary: neither work
Feb 16 21:18:19 <dneary> http://maemo.org/profile/view/herzi/ <- 48 karma
Feb 16 21:18:31 <herzi> ah
Feb 16 21:20:43 <Jaffa> Good grief, maemo.org's being slow this evening.
Feb 16 21:22:06 <dneary> yeah
Feb 16 21:22:18 <dneary> The server's getting spammed, Niels said
Feb 16 21:22:21 <dneary> (not by me)
Feb 16 21:22:24 <dneary> Night
Feb 16 21:27:00 * Stskeeps stretches and pours himself a well-deserved glass of wine.
Feb 16 21:28:12 <GeneralAntilles> Pff
Feb 16 21:28:16 <GeneralAntilles> You deserve nothing.
Feb 16 21:28:41 <Stskeeps> hehe
Feb 16 21:28:48 <b-man> lol
Feb 16 21:28:56 <Stskeeps> b-man: couple of patches for you.. sec
Feb 16 21:29:03 <b-man> k
Feb 16 21:29:10 <Stskeeps> GeneralAntilles: it is also me and the fiancees two year day together so
Feb 16 21:31:57 * b-man sooo wishes we could somehow reverse-ingener some of beagleboard's 3D drivers for our cpu, too bad it's not yet possible :(
Feb 16 21:32:19 <Stskeeps> b-man: yeah, well, that ship has sailed i guess
Feb 16 21:32:26 <Stskeeps> it is possible, ofcourse, but takes a long time :)
Feb 16 21:32:34 <timelE61i> jeremiah: how goes it?
Feb 16 21:32:40 <b-man> > http://groups.google.com/group/beagleboard/browse_thread/thread/44a0c0f5354afaab   :)
Feb 16 21:38:07 <MaceN800> yawn
Feb 16 21:38:23 <Stskeeps> MaceN800: time to try out Mer vmdk :P
Feb 16 21:38:42 <Stskeeps> oh, right, you did already didn't you? the double application menus :P
Feb 16 21:39:01 <MaceN800> yah
Feb 16 21:39:13 <MaceN800> i couldnt stand it. sorry
Feb 16 21:39:15 <Stskeeps> hehe
Feb 16 21:39:27 <MaceN800> i'd have lost my mind
Feb 16 21:39:42 <MaceN800> it's just one of those things
Feb 16 21:41:13 <MaceN800> it was very nice though
Feb 16 21:41:26 <MaceN800> i'm sure if i install it in about 6 more months or so it will be on awesome status
Feb 16 21:41:49 <Stskeeps> i am surprised how much was done 0.7->0.8, heh
Feb 16 21:42:15 <MaceN800> did you guys fix the double menus with .8
Feb 16 21:42:18 <MaceN800> ?
Feb 16 21:42:20 <MaceN800> :)
Feb 16 21:42:24 <Stskeeps> no, not yet, i didn't have time to look into that part
Feb 16 21:42:28 <Stskeeps> was some higher priority issues
Feb 16 21:42:44 <MaceN800> well.. maybe .9 ;)
Feb 16 21:42:56 <MaceN800> how is the bt support looking?
Feb 16 21:43:01 <MaceN800> or do you guys just have people set up bluez?
Feb 16 21:43:42 <MaceN800> if you got rid of the double menu (maybe make a logo icon for it too ;) ... had wifi and bt hid working
Feb 16 21:43:42 <MaceN800> i'd love it
Feb 16 21:43:42 <timelE61i> sts: double menus isn't an issue if you install enough bits from diablo ;)
Feb 16 21:43:56 <timelE61i> Mace: eh?
Feb 16 21:44:09 <timelE61i> Normal bt worked for me in mer
Feb 16 21:44:20 <timelE61i> I paired my phone to mer-vmdk
Feb 16 21:44:30 <Stskeeps> timelE61i: thats scary somewhat
Feb 16 21:44:43 <MaceN800> i didn't try my bluetooth kb
Feb 16 21:44:45 <MaceN800> i stopped witht he double menu
Feb 16 21:44:46 <timelE61i> sTs: best part..
Feb 16 21:44:55 <MaceN800> it was driving me nutty heh
Feb 16 21:44:57 <timelE61i> I can't use bt from the laptop itself
Feb 16 21:45:01 <Stskeeps> hah :P
Feb 16 21:45:03 <timelE61i> Only from mer :)
Feb 16 21:45:15 <timelE61i> Windows bt stack = disaster
Feb 16 21:45:17 <MaceN800> if the bt hid works then i'm fine.. i adhoc to my phone
Feb 16 21:46:05 <timelE61i> Fwiw, the nokia bt kbd cpl is one of very few things i couldn't install
Feb 16 21:46:17 <MaceN800> seriously?
Feb 16 21:46:31 <MaceN800> well.. i guess my su8w is out of the question huh?
Feb 16 21:46:33 <Stskeeps> MaceN800: timeless has been making a mer-diablo frankenstein :P
Feb 16 21:46:34 <MaceN800> :)
Feb 16 21:46:35 <timelE61i> there are pictures of my mer online
Feb 16 21:46:47 <timelE61i> Mace: so...
Feb 16 21:46:53 <timelE61i> The cpl is just a cpl
Feb 16 21:47:04 <timelE61i> Qwerty+i replaced one cpl
Feb 16 21:47:16 <timelE61i> They're not critical, just ui
Feb 16 21:47:57 * timelE61i needs to figure out how image viewer slipped through the cracks
Feb 16 21:48:05 <MaceN800> still irritating tho ;) i'll just hold off installing it until it gets a little more down the line
Feb 16 21:48:21 <MaceN800> maybe around .99 or something
Feb 16 21:48:28 <MaceN800> heh
Feb 16 21:48:39 <timelE61i> hey, how does ham decide what's an "application" when it backs up applications?
Feb 16 21:48:41 <MaceN800> but it is a very nice looking replacement for maemo
Feb 16 21:49:00 <MaceN800> well.. i have to get back to setting up this shell box
Feb 16 21:49:02 <MaceN800> fbsd ftw
Feb 16 21:49:19 <MaceN800> i wonder if the esxi box can use an external hd as storage
Feb 16 21:49:19 <timelE61i> We're taking a break from setting up osol
Feb 16 21:49:44 <timelE61i> (osol is bootable zfs root on a usb disk)
Feb 16 21:49:47 <MaceN800> osol?
Feb 16 21:49:52 <MaceN800> ah
Feb 16 21:50:14 <qwerty12_N800> timelE61i: programs with a section of user/ afaik
Feb 16 21:50:17 <timelE61i> OpenSolaris2008-11, updated to dev
Feb 16 21:50:26 <timelE61i> Qwerty: i suspected
Feb 16 21:50:36 <timelE61i> Unfortunate for me....
Feb 16 21:50:49 <oli> anyone using iptablet on N8*0?
Feb 16 21:50:54 <oli> iptables*
Feb 16 21:51:03 <timelE61i> I'd have loved to ask ham to back up my installed diablo package list :)
Feb 16 21:51:20 <Proteous> Mmmmm, ham
Feb 16 21:53:13 <timelE61i> yeah, i won't eat it
Feb 16 21:54:13 <Stskeeps> b-man: http://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/merinstaller.patch
Feb 16 21:54:36 <b-man> thanks :)
Feb 16 21:55:12 <Macer> solaris any good on x86
Feb 16 21:55:20 <Macer> last i remembered it didn't come with gcc :)
Feb 16 21:55:31 <Macer> but i haven't tried it in a very long time
Feb 16 21:56:08 <timelE61i> It comes w/ it now
Feb 16 21:56:14 <timelE61i> I'm happy w/ it
Feb 16 22:06:04 <Stskeeps> qwerty12_N800: Pocket Loox instructions up btw
Feb 16 22:06:22 <qwerty12_N800> woot!
Feb 16 22:06:41 <b-man> people asking me lots of questions; http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25975&page=6     - i'm going crazy - too many things happening today - way too busy! 0_0
Feb 16 22:07:54 <Stskeeps> b-man: distro work isn't easy :P
Feb 16 22:07:59 * b-man gets a mental overload
Feb 16 22:08:23 <b-man> Stskeeps: verry true :)
Feb 16 22:08:24 <Stskeeps> b-man: people who trip the incompatible bootmenu warning and then tries to disable it.. that is really bad
Feb 16 22:08:35 <Stskeeps> if it trips, there's a bloody good reason
Feb 16 22:09:41 * lcuk passes b-man AND Stskeeps a bacon butty.  i do not envy the task either of you has undertaken
Feb 16 22:09:56 <b-man> hehe
Feb 16 22:10:43 <b-man> Stskeeps: it's triping even with deblet bootmenu - but i have it installed and i'm having no problems with it
Feb 16 22:10:47 * lcuk does some code
Feb 16 22:11:04 <fireun> use data protection
Feb 16 22:11:32 <Stskeeps> b-man: it is probably people who forgot to add ITEM_LINUXRC
Feb 16 22:11:50 <Stskeeps> b-man: if they have tripped it once, the install is ruined :P
Feb 16 22:12:15 <b-man> hmm :(((
Feb 16 22:14:45 * b-man screams
Feb 16 22:15:06 * Proteous covers his ears
Feb 16 22:15:06 <Stskeeps> and we witness b-man losing his sanity
Feb 16 22:15:07 <lcuk> in irc, noone can hear you scream
Feb 16 22:15:19 * lcuk heard wilhelm tho
Feb 16 22:15:44 <b-man> hohoho hehehe hahaha :o ;p 0.o 0_o O-0
Feb 16 22:16:09 <lcuk> nope, false alarm, hes back to normal
Feb 16 22:16:43 <timelE61i> witch dr?
Feb 16 22:17:20 <Proteous> lol
Feb 16 22:17:40 <Proteous> someone needs to run s/witch/which/ on b-mans post
Feb 16 22:18:07 <Stskeeps> Proteous: i've added an automatic sed script to my irc client and i've never been happier :)
Feb 16 22:18:16 <Proteous> lol
Feb 16 22:18:37 * b-man douces himself with a glass of water
Feb 16 22:19:29 <Stskeeps> b-man: we can only hope we can develop mer in a direction where it is trivial to convert it into a ubuntu if one such wanted >P
Feb 16 22:21:35 <Stskeeps> b-man: but anyway, there was a reason why i didn't start a ublet back then - it wasn't sustainable in the long run in terms of power usage and maintainability.. same lesson learnt with deblet
Feb 16 22:22:48 <Stskeeps> (we had ubuntu running already back in summer)
Feb 16 22:24:10 <lardman> evening all
Feb 16 22:24:26 <lardman> any other councilors about?
Feb 16 22:24:43 <b-man> Stskeeps: true :p
Feb 16 22:24:48 * b-man eats some mack'n cheez to calm his nervs
Feb 16 22:25:06 <lardman> GeneralAntilles: ping
Feb 16 22:25:10 <lardman> Jaffa: ping
Feb 16 22:25:17 * timelE61i misses kraft
Feb 16 22:25:25 <Stskeeps> b-man: figure out a way to make a /etc/apt/preferences that drags in the packages you want from mer and downprioritize the mer ones otherwise
Feb 16 22:25:30 <fireun> ubuntu only on the n8xx?
Feb 16 22:25:41 <lardman> bbiab
Feb 16 22:25:49 <Stskeeps> fireun: it is fairly simple to get it going on 770 too, mer is on 770 as well
Feb 16 22:25:52 * fireun hates being stuck at one final release on the 770
Feb 16 22:26:12 <Stskeeps> fireun: and i'll be getting a 770 donated so we can (finally) add proper support to the 770s
Feb 16 22:26:15 <fireun> Stskeeps: ok, good to know, I'll give it a try one of these weekends
Feb 16 22:26:29 <fireun> eggscellent
Feb 16 22:26:42 <Stskeeps> b-man: and then we can build the ubuntu images along with mer images i guess
Feb 16 22:28:36 <tonyyarusso> eh?  You can run Ubuntu on an n8xx?  How?
Feb 16 22:29:39 <b-man> http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25975
Feb 16 22:29:41 <GeneralAntilles> lardman|away?
Feb 16 22:30:10 <Stskeeps> tonyyarusso: Mer is based on ubuntu (taken from a minbase though), too
Feb 16 22:30:43 <Stskeeps> but b-man's ubuntu is indirectly based on mer work :)
Feb 16 22:31:41 <b-man> and a little bit of deblet too ;)
Feb 16 22:33:52 <Jaffa> lardman|afk: ping
Feb 16 22:37:04 <lardman|away> GeneralAntilles: the wiki pages about the referenda make no sense to me
Feb 16 22:37:33 <lardman> what's all the "item #3" stuff mean?
Feb 16 22:37:50 <lardman> and why the change in numbering scheme on this page: http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council/Council_voting_rights
Feb 16 22:38:18 <lardman> I've not been involved as I don't have any strong views, but this is confusing
Feb 16 22:38:20 <Jaffa> lardman: Can you change them so they *do* make sense?
Feb 16 22:38:29 <Jaffa> lardman: Item #3 is referrring to the document linked above
Feb 16 22:38:31 <lardman> no, I have no idea what it's supposed to mean!
Feb 16 22:38:36 <Jaffa> http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council#Election_process
Feb 16 22:38:40 <Jaffa> lardman: once I explain it ;-)
Feb 16 22:38:42 <wazd> ok, self-demotivation didn't worked, current Mer UI mockup is nice :)
Feb 16 22:39:10 <Jaffa> lardman: and the change in numbering scheme is cos dneary was copying & pasting and fubared?
Feb 16 22:39:29 <Stskeeps> wazd: as in the one you published?
Feb 16 22:40:05 <wazd> Stskeeps: yep. It just needs a few tweaks for supernarrow screens
Feb 16 22:40:19 <Stskeeps> alright
Feb 16 22:40:40 <wazd> Stskeeps: I really tried to come up with something better but I can't for now)
Feb 16 22:41:33 <GeneralAntilles> When do we get to vote?
Feb 16 22:42:08 <Jaffa> GeneralAntilles: AIUI, the vote links are sent separately; so I assumed they'd come at some point after the emails... but dneary's blog post says "open now"
Feb 16 22:42:14 <Jaffa> Something to poke him about tomorrow.
Feb 16 22:42:36 <Jaffa> Ah no.
Feb 16 22:42:38 <Jaffa> Bollocks.
Feb 16 22:42:48 <Jaffa> There's a link in his post to http://maemo.org/vote/ which contains them
Feb 16 22:42:55 <Stskeeps> wazd: maybe the challenge is then to see what would make sense on a phone device
Feb 16 22:43:03 <Jaffa> But that wasn't in the emails. Oh well, one follow up email tomorrow should do it.
Feb 16 22:43:39 * Jaffa beds
Feb 16 22:44:52 <GeneralAntilles> We're bouncing between numeric and alpha lists. . . .
Feb 16 22:45:27 * b-man leaves - see ya later
Feb 16 22:45:39 <GeneralAntilles> The wiki pages doesn't correspond to the referenda titles.
Feb 16 22:45:42 <GeneralAntilles> <_<
Feb 16 22:46:17 <tonyyarusso> Is it possible to make apps install to the removable memory?  I'm running into space constraints with the system memory.
Feb 16 22:46:41 <rm_you> tonyyarusso: look into Boot From SD
Feb 16 22:46:55 <rm_you> you'll need to actually run the OS from a partition on an SD card
Feb 16 22:46:57 <tonyyarusso> rm_you: So I have to make the whole thing on it eh? Okay.
Feb 16 22:47:13 <rm_you> Yep. better idea anyway
Feb 16 22:47:14 <tonyyarusso> rm_you: Am I going to have to totally re-install everything to do that?
Feb 16 22:47:22 <rm_you> no
Feb 16 22:47:24 <tonyyarusso> Better idea why?
Feb 16 22:47:25 <rm_you> Clone From SD
Feb 16 22:47:28 <rm_you> search on the forums
Feb 16 22:47:37 <rm_you> it takes your current image
Feb 16 22:47:59 <rm_you> err, because if you break something (like your kernel, lol) you can boot into the flash install, chroot in, and fix it
Feb 16 22:48:07 <GeneralAntilles> ~bootsd
Feb 16 22:48:07 <rm_you> all on the device
Feb 16 22:48:10 <GeneralAntilles> ~boot-sd
Feb 16 22:48:10 <tonyyarusso> That's an excellent point.
Feb 16 22:48:26 <infobot> rumour has it, boot-sd is https://wiki.maemo.org/Booting_from_a_flash_card
Feb 16 22:48:27 <rm_you> has happened to me several times
Feb 16 22:48:34 <tonyyarusso> Is there any performance difference between the external SD and internal memory?
Feb 16 22:48:43 <rm_you> not really IMO
Feb 16 22:51:04 <lardman> re
Feb 16 22:51:07 <lardman> sorry had to pop out
Feb 16 22:51:59 <lardman> Jaffa: Ok, I now see the link to the number in the countil page
Feb 16 22:52:22 <lardman> Jaffa: and yes, I know the numbering thing was a fubar, I was just surprised the email went out with it like that
Feb 16 22:56:02 <guysoft42> is there a way to get gpe on the maemo to sync to a syncML server?
Feb 16 22:56:47 <wazd> Stskeeps: btw, how apps behave with such narrow screen?
Feb 16 22:57:00 <Stskeeps> wazd: mm, depends
Feb 16 22:57:34 <Stskeeps> my focus isnt always the apps but libhildon apps
Feb 16 23:00:04 * lardman got out of the wrong side of bed this morning, and apologises to everyone for his tone
Feb 16 23:00:52 <lcuk> dont apologise lardman, i was *just* writing a what the fucking hell is this referendum about message here..
Feb 16 23:02:00 <lardman> yeah, well I do feel bad as I've not done anything council related for this - I have an opinion, but am not too bothered to argue it so have stayed out of the emails and organisation
Feb 16 23:02:15 <lardman> how are you anyway lcuk?
Feb 16 23:02:49 <lcuk> im feeling a bit better now, had flu all last week, snuffled way through a romantic meal on saturday night
Feb 16 23:03:23 <lardman> oh, we had hangovers from the night before - too many caperinhas (spelling?)
Feb 16 23:03:37 * GeneralAntilles facepalms at "Maemo Council"
Feb 16 23:03:52 <lcuk> lol it was nice though, good to have time to ourselves :)
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Feb 16 23:04:16 <lcuk> my mum had em for a few hours :)
Feb 16 23:04:24 <lardman> cool :)
Feb 16 23:04:28 <lcuk> now lukes gone to scotland skiing
Feb 16 23:04:30 <GeneralAntilles> lardman, we can lay the blame squarely on dneary's shoulders for all of this. :P
Feb 16 23:04:36 <lardman> :D
Feb 16 23:04:45 <lardman> I'm sure he'll be pleased....
Feb 16 23:05:13 <lardman> well I do partly blame myself for not being involved enough and not checking things out
Feb 16 23:05:16 <lardman> but that's life
Feb 16 23:05:34 <lcuk> and caperinhas
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Feb 16 23:06:31 <lcuk> lardman, you saw the video, this puts it in a bit more perspective: http://liqbase.net/liq.20090214_130409.lib.scr.png
Feb 16 23:07:21 <Stskeeps> lo ian
Feb 16 23:08:30 <lcuk> this voting thing, since ive used my mail address as a key, can't i have the token mailed back to me (with applicable 1/3 subject ;))
Feb 16 23:10:54 <lardman> lcuk: your liqbase stuff is in this ui design, looks good if it could be integrated: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26877
Feb 16 23:11:22 <GeneralAntilles> Stskeeps/lcuk/anybody who doesn't know, http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council/Counting_methods what do the items #'s refer to?
Feb 16 23:11:28 <lcuk> yeah lardman I saw that, but thats just icons
Feb 16 23:11:38 <lardman> lcuk: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=264867&postcount=13
Feb 16 23:11:52 <Stskeeps> GeneralAntilles: i looked at it and decided the alcohol level in my system did not permit me to focus on that :P
Feb 16 23:11:58 <lardman> lcuk: first link in there
Feb 16 23:12:14 <lcuk> i just saw that and stepped back
Feb 16 23:12:19 <lcuk> just a mo, lemme finish voting
Feb 16 23:12:26 <lcuk> ive got something to show you
Feb 16 23:13:13 <GeneralAntilles> Is: "The changes mentioned below will be made to the items in the Council election process." better?
Feb 16 23:13:17 <lcuk> reading these voting options feels like reading stuart code
Feb 16 23:13:29 <lcuk> the last vote, the one where i choose about which voting method
Feb 16 23:13:38 <lcuk> it just says "changes to #4 and #5 or whatever"
Feb 16 23:14:09 <lcuk> without ever listing the other options :'( whats the options for gcc to compile this up into a completed form
Feb 16 23:15:42 <lcuk> difference between "one vote" and "a single ballot"
Feb 16 23:15:55 <lardman> http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council/Voting_rights_Q1_2009#Proposed_options #2 should be explained better
Feb 16 23:16:05 <Macer> sigh.. i love my g1.. tmob's 3G network works great
Feb 16 23:16:15 <lardman> it means that a change will be added for the first 2 elections, or at least that's my read of it
Feb 16 23:16:17 <Macer> att with my 95 doesn't have shit on it
Feb 16 23:16:19 <lcuk> im ok with that, it was an easy choice
Feb 16 23:16:37 <lcuk> the selection clearly stated my intention
Feb 16 23:18:43 <lcuk> right
Feb 16 23:18:45 <lcuk> lardman, http://liqbase.net/liq.20090216_004545.lib.scr.png
Feb 16 23:18:54 <lcuk> this blew my mind last night
Feb 16 23:20:00 <lcuk> http://liqbase.net/liq.20090216_004336.lib.scr.png
Feb 16 23:20:04 <lardman> lcuk: cool :)
Feb 16 23:20:13 <StsN800> liqporn?
Feb 16 23:20:42 <b0unc3_> lcuk: looks nice...
Feb 16 23:20:48 <lcuk> this pic http://liqbase.net/liq.20090216_004336.lib.scr.png has a liqtop widget.  it views the current mirror universe and is zoomable
Feb 16 23:20:55 <lcuk> (same as i just posted)
Feb 16 23:21:21 <lcuk> i have created a fractal desktop :)
Feb 16 23:21:32 <lcuk> (and found/adjusted a pic to match)
Feb 16 23:21:37 <Macer> esxi box is working pretty good now
Feb 16 23:21:37 <Macer> still thin
Feb 16 23:21:53 <Macer> k my zimbra vm is a little on the slow side.. might need to tweak some more resources to it
Feb 16 23:22:04 <lcuk> http://liqbase.net/liq.20090216_011659.lib.scr.png
Feb 16 23:29:44 <GeneralAntilles> Drunk StsN800, wanna look again and see if it makes a little more sense? :P
Feb 16 23:29:53 <GeneralAntilles> http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council/Council_voting_rights
Feb 16 23:42:28 <Macer> hm. is rdp encrypted?
Feb 16 23:48:16 <lardman> night all
Feb 16 23:51:53 <wazd> lcuk: why the time on the thumbnail is 1 second forward?)
Feb 16 23:52:05 <lcuk> link?
Feb 16 23:52:17 <wazd> http://liqbase.net/liq.20090216_004545.lib.scr.png
Feb 16 23:52:37 <lcuk> it will have ticked over before it drew the inner frame
Feb 16 23:52:41 <lcuk> it shows live stuff
Feb 16 23:52:50 <lcuk> and that desktop in a desktop brings the machine to its knees!
Feb 16 23:52:59 <lcuk> it gets about 5fps
Feb 16 23:53:23 <lcuk> i disabled it soon after
Feb 16 23:53:24 <lcuk> http://liqbase.net/liq.20090216_011659.lib.scr.png
Feb 16 23:55:09 <lcuk> i kinda got text editing working as well :)
Feb 16 23:55:20 <lcuk> i can select text and type over it (sometimes, its got bugs)
Feb 17 01:29:49 <tonyyarusso> FYI, OS2008 does not handle a full root partition gracefully.
Feb 17 01:30:17 <andyrocks> anyone know if amule works in maemo?
Feb 17 02:06:48 <Andrewfblack> how do I install something and make it install the version I want if there are several in repos
Feb 17 02:44:15 <tonyyarusso> Andrewfblack: Generally with apt this is accomplished through something called "pinning" (easily googleable).  Whether the concept is seamlessly applicable to maemo or not I'm not sure, but I'd imagine it would be.
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