**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Feb 27 02:59:57 2009 Feb 27 03:03:22 first problem while following the tutorial Feb 27 03:03:26 got pretty far with nothing wrong Feb 27 03:03:36 but when we start using the pkg-config utility.. Feb 27 03:04:40 http://rafb.net/p/gjf8Wd55.html Feb 27 03:04:44 I get that Feb 27 03:04:56 which is not what the tutorial says I should get Feb 27 03:08:54 I should note that all the version checks the tutorial has me do; line up perfectly Feb 27 03:08:55 yea second line says you are missing the program "pkg-config" from you path Feb 27 03:08:59 ah Feb 27 03:09:06 ill.. resolve that I guess :) Feb 27 03:09:22 installing Feb 27 03:10:18 oh maybe cause you should use `pkg-config, not 'pkg-config Feb 27 03:11:10 what is the framerate of hildon? Feb 27 03:11:30 ..and is the N8x0 96 dpi Feb 27 03:16:37 neato_jones, the LCD is 225dpi Feb 27 03:16:50 x is 96, though, I think. Feb 27 03:16:55 They just pumped up the font size. Feb 27 03:17:13 x updates are manual Feb 27 03:17:19 So there isn't really a "framerate" Feb 27 03:17:34 thanks Feb 27 03:17:46 k Feb 27 03:21:05 anyone use Mer. how can you set up the usb ssh? Feb 27 03:23:17 http://wiki.maemo.org/USB_networking Feb 27 03:36:04 can anyone explain to me my scratchbox is giving me mmap: Permission denied when I am running as fakeroot? Feb 27 03:39:07 What can I use to sync information from the GPE PIM tools to Evolution on my desktop? Feb 27 03:44:49 tank-man, I installed the pkg-config from apt-get install, then tried what you said with ` instead of ' and I got http://rafb.net/p/w24p6177.html Feb 27 03:44:52 v_v Feb 27 03:45:04 seg faults Feb 27 04:05:09 I'm now chatting from booted ubuntu from my tablet! :D Feb 27 04:06:29 me too Feb 27 04:06:36 bman-- Feb 27 04:06:40 sweet] Feb 27 04:06:57 talking to raster with the e17 people Feb 27 04:07:10 trying to figure out the keyboard issues Feb 27 04:07:41 he installed Mer, is building E17 now Feb 27 04:07:59 :( Feb 27 04:07:59 nice Feb 27 04:08:15 I'm getting segfaults when I try to compile with gtk Feb 27 04:08:48 * b-man_ubuntu tests out firefox Feb 27 04:08:48 compile which with gtk? Feb 27 04:08:59 neato_jones, http://rafb.net/p/w24p6177.html Feb 27 04:15:11 Mido: why are you compiling libgtk2.0? Feb 27 04:17:39 neato_jones, http://maemo.org/development/training/maemo_getting_started_content/plain_html/node5/ following this Feb 27 04:17:43 I need to go afk for a bit Feb 27 04:17:48 ill read anything you suggest Feb 27 04:40:36 god dammit xD Feb 27 04:40:46 the net split erased what anyone might have said Feb 27 04:44:40 timelE61i: ping? Feb 27 05:37:59 hello Feb 27 05:38:17 anyone using gnumeric? Feb 27 05:38:42 i can't find a way to switch to another sheet Feb 27 05:38:50 any hints? Feb 27 05:39:16 hi Feb 27 05:39:20 Gm Feb 27 05:39:26 hi Feb 27 05:41:23 I am checking if Aptana toolkit cud be used for making applications for maemo .can anybody suggest something Feb 27 05:41:51 do you know how to switch between sheets in gnumeric for maemo? Feb 27 05:42:17 sans: sorry no clue about that Feb 27 05:43:30 sisto:no idea about switching in gnumeric:( Feb 27 05:44:17 Stskeeps: hi Feb 27 05:45:23 Stskeeps:any way to make applications on Aptana and put it on maemo? Feb 27 05:45:49 timelE61i:any way to make applications on Aptana and put it on maemo? Feb 27 05:46:42 not going to ask me? :) Feb 27 05:46:51 sans, firing random questions at random people isn't usually a good way to get an answer. :) Feb 27 05:47:04 If there's somebody in the room who can answer, they will. Feb 27 05:48:38 k will keep in mind? Feb 27 05:49:05 :) Feb 27 07:19:12 EHLO ALL Feb 27 07:21:06 helo Feb 27 07:40:21 hi all Feb 27 07:40:39 i'm trying to mount the rootfs image according to http://wiki.maemo.org/Modifying_the_root_image Feb 27 07:40:56 but i keep getting jffs2: Too few erase blocks (0) in dmesg Feb 27 07:41:07 any ideas? Feb 27 07:45:17 http://www.infradead.org/pipermail/linux-mtd/2007-October/019675.html Feb 27 07:46:11 He's probably doing it wrong, it correctly lists 256 as the erase block size (and I've followed those instructions and made new images a few times with those instructions) Feb 27 08:17:25 'lo else58 Feb 27 08:17:35 er. Feb 27 08:17:41 earksiinni,b ut he let :P Feb 27 08:17:57 * Stskeeps ponders how that message was full of fail. Feb 27 08:19:57 rofl Feb 27 08:26:30 Morning, all Feb 27 08:26:58 morning Jaffa Feb 27 08:27:03 mornin' Feb 27 08:27:23 mronin Feb 27 08:31:24 qwerty12: did powerlaunch have a charging screen? Feb 27 08:31:38 Aye, unanimated though Feb 27 08:32:28 sure? thought it was in the code to animate Feb 27 08:33:36 It's been a long while since I've used it. It did have a problem though. It was either the animation thing or the writing and icon being way too small (which I know did happen for a fact) or both. Feb 27 08:35:40 ah Feb 27 08:41:14 Does powerlaunch have alarm dialog? Feb 27 08:42:08 alarms were broken last time I tried it but I may be imagining the author saying he fixed the alarms in a later version. lemme check. Feb 27 08:42:21 uncertain, but it is probably programmable :P Feb 27 08:42:31 "Alarms should be working in powerlaunch 0.9 and it's now installable from the maemo extras-devel repository" Feb 27 08:42:58 with localisation? Feb 27 08:43:26 iirc, it only speaks english Feb 27 08:44:02 But it's all handled by conf files anyway (including text strings) Feb 27 08:44:50 Ahh Feb 27 08:48:01 powerlaunch is basically a programming language :P Feb 27 08:48:24 =) Feb 27 08:48:29 Generic problem solver Feb 27 08:48:52 It also has the tendency to create problems for users :P Feb 27 08:49:03 yeah :P Feb 27 08:49:16 Wonder if system UI is still used in harmattan... Feb 27 08:49:58 Erm, meant fremantle Feb 27 08:51:07 Hmm, at least there's no osso-systemui-dbus-dev package in fremantle repos Feb 27 09:05:45 moo all Feb 27 09:05:52 baa Feb 27 09:06:01 A curious thing happened yesterday Feb 27 09:06:30 qwerty: Seen that post about Tracker on Maemo Planet? Feb 27 09:06:46 Seen it but I haven't read it yet Feb 27 09:13:31 qwerty: Anyway, I left a comment to it yesterday, about how running tracker in background will affect cpu performance and battery consumption Feb 27 09:13:44 qwerty: Today, my comment has been quietly deleted. Feb 27 09:13:45 It's been deleted? Feb 27 09:13:48 Yea. Feb 27 09:13:54 Funny, isn't it? :) Feb 27 09:14:01 Indeed :) Feb 27 09:14:14 * RST38h strokes his crystal balls Feb 27 09:14:40 You sure it's not just in a moderation queue? Feb 27 09:14:48 No, it has been there yesterday Feb 27 09:14:52 Anyway, it could hardly be worse than metalayer Feb 27 09:15:03 And it wasn't a flame too, just a very neutral question Feb 27 09:15:34 General: Judging from how Tracker behaves on desktop Ubuntu, it will Feb 27 09:16:10 General: very aggressive program, created 200MB of metadata in my ~ before I disabled it Feb 27 09:16:54 * GeneralAntilles shrugs. Feb 27 09:16:57 Nokia's not stupid. Feb 27 09:17:10 Nokia is a company, it can't be "stupid" Feb 27 09:17:24 Maemo SW, then. Feb 27 09:17:30 Whatever term you want to use. Feb 27 09:17:43 Unfortunately, architectural decisions like that are made by live humans and some of them may be...mmm...unrealistic Feb 27 09:18:07 They've already shipped something similar for 3 years. Feb 27 09:18:20 It hasn't managed to kill the platform. Feb 27 09:19:46 companies can be stupid Feb 27 09:19:52 so. Feb 27 09:20:22 General: It is not going to kill the platform of course Feb 27 09:20:43 General: Will just piss the users. Feb 27 09:20:56 (see the previous metalayer fiasco) Feb 27 09:20:56 jeremiah_: oh dear, you spelt Fremantle incorrectly; one of GeneralAntilles' bug bears ;-) Feb 27 09:20:58 definitely Feb 27 09:21:02 but we can fork Feb 27 09:21:16 * RST38h would prefer to have a decent working base product Feb 27 09:21:19 Jaffa, I'm building a capital M launcher as we speak. ;) Feb 27 09:21:22 unlike other poor sods Feb 27 09:21:30 "We can fork" is really not an answer :( Feb 27 09:21:33 RST38h: Tracker is -very- modified on Maemo Feb 27 09:21:43 (and tracker on maemo is the new desktop version) Feb 27 09:21:51 but is still slow Feb 27 09:21:54 Sts: Have you tried running whatever they released on Mer btw? Feb 27 09:21:55 :> Feb 27 09:21:59 RST38h: no, not yet Feb 27 09:22:13 but it is very modified and architecturally, it looks saner Feb 27 09:22:16 RST38h, supposedly the beta releases will be available for Diablo, so you can test to your heart's content. Feb 27 09:22:19 Sts: Given how touchy its developers are about performance, it is well worth checking Feb 27 09:22:19 and if you can regulate when it scans.. Feb 27 09:22:21 btw, why do we even need such thing Feb 27 09:22:32 AStorm: media players. \o/ Feb 27 09:22:41 but why track in bg Feb 27 09:22:43 AStorm: some people love this Feb 27 09:22:48 why not load on demand Feb 27 09:22:58 AStorm: because things like Canola and MediaBox take 60 seconds to start with a small media library? Feb 27 09:23:00 AStorm:not myself, but some others Feb 27 09:23:00 RST38h: you can probably get a good searcher if you utilize directory events Feb 27 09:23:01 or preload before demand Feb 27 09:23:13 Jaffa: Do not enable index-on-startup Feb 27 09:23:18 Stskeeps: wasn't tracker - in some mode - supposed to use inotify? Feb 27 09:23:36 RST38h: and then you have to update manually as an explicit step, which isn't very friendly either. Feb 27 09:23:46 Jaffa: No problem to me personally Feb 27 09:23:58 Jaffa, friendlier than grabbing battery Feb 27 09:24:01 Jaffa: I change content rarely, in big chunks Feb 27 09:24:11 although inotify-based updater should be cheap Feb 27 09:24:11 In theory, having a central repository of all media on the device isn't a bad idea. It's just implementation which matters. Feb 27 09:24:12 RST38h, then your use-case is clearly covered. Feb 27 09:24:22 Most people dislike having to screw around with that shit. Feb 27 09:24:24 Jaffa, yes Feb 27 09:24:29 General: yea, I understand Feb 27 09:24:42 General: Not sure about "most", but many do Feb 27 09:24:48 the trick is removing old entries Feb 27 09:25:01 nso as to make the database small Feb 27 09:25:04 and handling removable devices Feb 27 09:25:43 Jaffa: the actual thing that matters is how aggresively you index Feb 27 09:26:15 Jaffa: my feeling is that there is no "right" setting for this, so I just default to "index when I ask you" Feb 27 09:26:33 inotify-based indexing can be aggressive and unobtrusive Feb 27 09:26:36 RST38h: See, you're assuming an implementation detail (which both metalayer and tracker used) of constantly scanning the filesystem for changes, when Linux provides event-based notifications for that. Feb 27 09:26:41 it will index after write Feb 27 09:27:03 Jaffa, fix then. Feb 27 09:27:09 immediately Feb 27 09:27:22 it's a grave bug not to use this Feb 27 09:27:31 I suspect that tracker, certainly, falls back to inotify - but it needs to scan to find the starting position. Feb 27 09:27:47 what starting position? Feb 27 09:27:50 Jaffa: yeah, probably Feb 27 09:27:51 Less of an issue on a fresh-out-of-the-box mobile device Feb 27 09:27:57 Jaffa: yea, but using inotify, as I understand, will shift delay from overal operation to file system accesses Feb 27 09:27:58 you mean like mp3 delay? Feb 27 09:28:15 AStorm: RST38h is basing his comments on trying tracker on his desktop. It'll already have had a whole shit of stuff on his box which inotify wouldn't tell him about. Feb 27 09:28:21 RST38h, indeed, but you have the file in cache already Feb 27 09:28:43 Jaffa, have one time manual scan Feb 27 09:28:48 Jaffa: as I said, my question about cpu/power consumption of the "new" tracker has been promptly deleted Feb 27 09:29:01 AStorm: ah, that's a bit better Feb 27 09:29:03 RST38h: indeed, worrying. Feb 27 09:29:12 * GeneralAntilles wouldn't assume malice so quickly. Feb 27 09:29:35 Dunno Feb 27 09:30:34 AStorm: Now you're picking over the UI of a product I've not used, not involved in or whatever. Personally, I can see why doing the initial scan on install or first-startup is a better use-case in a lot of cases than doing it manually. But the ideal would be a "Welcome to Tracker. Your filesystem is x% full and should be indexed as soon as possible to provide most effective use. [Scan now] [Remind later] [Will start manually later]" Feb 27 09:30:47 But this is an irrelevant UI in a system component on a mobile device, so not pertinent to #maemo Feb 27 09:31:00 mhm Feb 27 09:31:22 I mean adding a directory should force an immediate scan... or maybe delayed one Feb 27 09:31:24 it is really a personal preference Feb 27 09:31:27 ui issue indeed Feb 27 09:31:39 RST38h: i'm happy as long as i can ask tracker not to run Feb 27 09:31:41 and we are not even talking about how you index but WHEN Feb 27 09:31:45 still, inotify has to be used. Feb 27 09:31:46 whereas metalayer-crawler was a bit of a hack to remove Feb 27 09:31:46 :P Feb 27 09:31:47 Sts: same here Feb 27 09:32:27 Sts: My guess is we are not gonna get this option, but I am always a pessimist Feb 27 09:32:52 fortunately, we can fix this Feb 27 09:33:32 RST38h: yeah, but as AStorm says, we have the freedom to whack tracker to death :P Feb 27 09:33:55 * Stskeeps still is laughing on the inside on the paid apps not working on adp1. :P Feb 27 09:33:59 have a control panel applet, for example Feb 27 09:34:15 http://inz.fi/blog/2009/02/27/scratchbox-on-amd64/ Feb 27 09:34:43 inz: thumbs up :) it's the most common complaint amongst users :P Feb 27 09:34:59 inz, :D Feb 27 09:35:17 * Stskeeps wonders if alpha drop happens today Feb 27 09:36:03 ehh, why can't we just have blessed *working* sbox2? Feb 27 09:36:23 instead of crazy hacks like this one Feb 27 09:36:29 sbox2 goes out of its way to be anal retentive Feb 27 09:36:49 eh, when was last drop? Feb 27 09:37:09 then why nit have sbox1 fixed to work with vdso Feb 27 09:37:18 randomization Feb 27 09:37:40 I suspect some major stupidity going down there if it needs that disabled Feb 27 09:38:20 Sts: I wonder what the next android-related snafu is going to be Feb 27 09:38:34 RST38h: ADP1 phones requiring "activation key" Feb 27 09:38:46 Sts: 'cause Android just continues to deliver lulz =) Feb 27 09:38:48 woohoo, walled garden Feb 27 09:39:33 duh, you don't want people stealing your tomatoes Feb 27 09:39:53 my garden has fuxing razor wire Feb 27 09:39:55 * RST38h suggests inz to switch to a geniune Intel desktop Feb 27 09:40:10 intel makes CPUs not desktops Feb 27 09:40:21 Proteous: Do your tomatoes have teeth too? =) Feb 27 09:40:25 my desktop is formica Feb 27 09:40:26 wrong Feb 27 09:40:32 Centrino platform Feb 27 09:40:36 Proteous: Actually, Intel makes the whole platform Feb 27 09:40:56 intel doesn't make peripherials though Feb 27 09:41:08 AStorm: makes flash memory Feb 27 09:41:19 but not pendrives Feb 27 09:41:27 so still not peripherials :P Feb 27 09:41:40 (or cards) Feb 27 09:41:47 there make the ADD card Feb 27 09:41:50 they* Feb 27 09:41:57 AStorm: http://www.intel.com/design/flash/NAND/mainstream/ Feb 27 09:41:58 and they make motherboards Feb 27 09:42:02 which is kind-of a card :) Feb 27 09:42:12 nope and nope Feb 27 09:42:25 peripherial is stuff you put outside the box Feb 27 09:42:37 the logo is "intel inside" for a reason Feb 27 09:42:41 ;) Feb 27 09:42:45 intel ahead Feb 27 09:43:07 AStorm: Don't pay too much attention to whatever marketing department produces Feb 27 09:43:55 Ah, my tracker question is back =) Feb 27 09:44:09 Must have been a glitch of some kind. No answer though. Feb 27 09:44:55 GeneralAntilles: ways around 3rd party apps so far: Skype (they point to .install file on their homepage, so can we.), Gizmo points to armel deb. Feb 27 09:45:20 Why are unbundled 3rd-party applications an issue? Feb 27 09:45:33 btw, do we have Skype 2 for armel already? Feb 27 09:45:36 well, i'm saying it's possible for users to grab :) Feb 27 09:45:52 Stskeeps, duh. :P Feb 27 09:46:10 without having to resort to upgrade repositories :P Feb 27 09:46:45 * RST38h salivates over http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2009/02/27/review_laptop_12in_toshiba_portege_r600/ Feb 27 09:47:30 12" is too large Feb 27 09:47:35 ;> Feb 27 09:47:54 Tablet or bust Feb 27 09:47:58 AStorm: I use R100 as a desktop replacement Feb 27 09:48:14 uh, my desktop replacement is 17" Feb 27 09:48:25 i.e. 12" is a bit too small for me :) But will do, given the weight and size Feb 27 09:48:32 and just 133 PPI Feb 27 09:48:52 I'd love a larger resolution screen Feb 27 09:49:12 you have got the tablet =) Feb 27 09:49:15 * GeneralAntilles uses a desktop as his desktop replacement and a tablet as his laptop replacement. Feb 27 09:51:38 * Stskeeps ponders idly when there will be response on the 3rd party hw interfacing Feb 27 09:52:09 then again i'm probably just impatient :P Feb 27 09:53:05 * GeneralAntilles can only imagine Nokia Legal's priority list. Feb 27 09:53:13 hehe Feb 27 09:53:19 1. Keep Microsoft from suing. Feb 27 09:53:24 2. Avoid submarine patents. Feb 27 09:53:42 that's about right Feb 27 09:53:43 3. Deal with whack-job Linux farkheads. Feb 27 09:53:50 we talked about 1 yesterday before dinner Feb 27 09:54:00 ah, my 3. was dealing with RMS by feeling him children Feb 27 09:54:00 :P Feb 27 09:54:04 feeding Feb 27 09:54:31 timeless: yeah, some of those patents are -nasty- Feb 27 09:54:48 they were early and smart Feb 27 09:54:49 (looking at tomtom case) Feb 27 09:55:02 sadly, they really constrain what can be done Feb 27 09:55:16 timeless: i do wonder how many patents nokia has that android and such probably infringes though :P Feb 27 09:55:27 "i don't want to know" Feb 27 09:55:47 finding out can be very bad for people who work in certain areas Feb 27 09:55:51 yeah Feb 27 09:55:56 It's interesting that no lightweight free alternative to FAT has come forward. Feb 27 09:55:56 Sts: He is probably a vegetarian, judging from how wacky he is overally Feb 27 09:56:21 GeneralAntilles: it's no use if cameras don't use them, so Feb 27 09:56:46 wouldn't something which tries to emulate fat still hit fat patents? Feb 27 09:57:05 Stskeeps, I think at least having something embedded vendors could consider would be a start. Feb 27 09:57:19 General: FAT isn't there because it is technically superior, it is there because everybody uses it Feb 27 09:57:32 timeless, hehe, I was just considering a translation layer that shows an EXT*/UBIFS volume as FAT to a PC connected via USB. Feb 27 09:57:35 it's also simple and easy to implement Feb 27 09:57:40 So, any alternative will end up like Ogg Vorbis Feb 27 09:57:40 ^ Feb 27 10:00:33 RST38h, I wouldn't be surprised about it not being picked up, just about there being no options available. Feb 27 10:07:27 General: lemme google ;) Feb 27 10:08:05 Yeah, good point. Feb 27 10:08:17 * GeneralAntilles is hardly familiar with all free filesystems. Feb 27 10:08:29 Though I'd assume if there were something I'd've heard about it. Feb 27 10:08:34 general: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flash_memory#Flash_file_systems Feb 27 10:08:44 The explanation is somewhat unexpected too Feb 27 10:09:03 "These removable flash memory devices use the FAT file system to allow universal compatibility with computers, cameras, PDAs and other portable devices with memory card slots or ports." Feb 27 10:09:26 compatibility, yup Feb 27 10:09:28 In other words, "FAT" you see is not necessarily what is used by the drive Feb 27 10:09:47 It is just a simulation layer to make Windows read it Feb 27 10:09:50 it usually is. Feb 27 10:09:54 nope Feb 27 10:10:11 Flash file systems: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flash_file_system Feb 27 10:10:16 nowadays they use that funky MS camera protocol Feb 27 10:10:28 AStorm: They still fall back to umass Feb 27 10:10:48 ah, you mean USB devices Feb 27 10:10:57 those do simulate FAT Feb 27 10:11:01 SD cards as well Feb 27 10:11:16 yes Feb 27 10:12:25 'lo zenvoid Feb 27 10:12:36 I don't really care about what's going on at a lower-level here, though, just avoiding having to use FAT without having a compatibility impact. Feb 27 10:13:37 Can't Feb 27 10:13:50 Unless you would like it to simulate NTFS of course :) Feb 27 10:14:10 nah, ntfs can't be read by most mobile devices Feb 27 10:14:38 Stskeeps: hello. I have a question for you ;-) Feb 27 10:14:44 zenvoid: shoot :) Feb 27 10:14:54 Stskeeps: I can't find the SBOX_COMPILER_ARGS variable, where is it? Feb 27 10:15:22 RST38h, in our case, why not? Feb 27 10:15:41 Format the built-in card as EXT3, then show a FAT device to things connected via USB. Feb 27 10:15:51 zenvoid: export SBOX_EXTRA_COMPILER_ARGS="-Wno-poison-system-directories -march=armv5te" Feb 27 10:15:56 before running scratchbox Feb 27 10:17:27 * GeneralAntilles wonders why a lot of the itT ads are no longer being blocked. Feb 27 10:17:41 t.m.o will be ad-free? Feb 27 10:17:45 Yes Feb 27 10:17:47 Stskeeps: heh, thanks Feb 27 10:18:54 * Stskeeps is seriously wondering what causes this bloody wifi problem Feb 27 10:18:57 (on n8x0) Feb 27 10:19:01 Now I undestand why "grep -r SBOX_COMPILER_ARGS" in sbox sources doesn't returned anything :D Feb 27 10:19:04 hehe Feb 27 10:20:24 still in dependancy hell? :) Feb 27 10:21:56 this time I was just trying several things :) Feb 27 10:22:18 wondering if "-march=armv6j -mtune=arm1136jf-s -mfpu=vfp -mfloat-abi=softfp" would make any speed difference in the n8x0 Feb 27 10:23:13 ah Feb 27 10:23:24 we need some investigations into HWCAP at least Feb 27 10:23:40 suihkulokki was looking at them i think Feb 27 10:24:18 that also would be interesting to know Feb 27 10:25:34 * GeneralAntilles bangs head against the wall @ "freemantle". Feb 27 10:26:31 zenvoid: i have a xomap building for mer btw if you want to experiment with it. It seems to have spooky interaction with HIM (works not in fields but it works in osso-xterm..) Feb 27 10:27:38 They all must be doing it intentionally. Feb 27 10:27:41 People can't really be this thick. Feb 27 10:27:51 GeneralAntilles: mental slip just like "the the"? Feb 27 10:28:17 you should do a "I'm GeneralAntilles and i pronounce Fremantle as Fr3mantel" wav Feb 27 10:28:17 :P Feb 27 10:28:24 or something Feb 27 10:28:28 Stskeeps, you should have called Mer freemantle :P Feb 27 10:28:34 Stskeeps, it's all too consistent to be a slip up. Feb 27 10:28:41 freemantle for maemo Feb 27 10:28:41 GeneralAntilles: i think they pronounce it freemantle in their head Feb 27 10:28:47 freemantle for Maemo.org Feb 27 10:28:47 i know i do it like that Feb 27 10:28:49 maemo5. :P Feb 27 10:29:08 so Fremantle soon becomes Freemantle by accident Feb 27 10:29:14 General: Just leave it be, at least they do not write it as "free mantle" Feb 27 10:29:21 ghehe Feb 27 10:29:29 aquatix: that's how "fremantle" *is* pronounced (AIUI) Feb 27 10:29:36 Jaffa: yeah Feb 27 10:29:49 * RST38h still mourns for the Elephanta. That would be one hell of a release name. Feb 27 10:29:55 so it's just some freudian thing then, i guess Feb 27 10:30:00 RST38h: :) Feb 27 10:30:36 Mantle (mollusc), an organ used by mollusks to secrete their shells Feb 27 10:30:40 * Stskeeps ponders. Feb 27 10:31:32 Stskeeps: sure, it is xomap in the repo? Feb 27 10:32:52 xserver-xomap but i'm unsure where it is, hm Feb 27 10:34:20 Sts: Fmermantle as a MeR release! Feb 27 10:34:21 At least all Finns pronounce it with only one "e". Feb 27 10:34:58 * RST38h has no idea how Finns pronounce "e" thouggh =) Feb 27 10:35:24 RST38h: my pet peeve is people calling Mer MeR (i don't blame them though. Original name was M-R) Feb 27 10:35:45 MER Feb 27 10:36:15 Maemo Emergency Reconsideration Feb 27 10:36:59 * GAN800 is going to blow up his tablet the next time MicroB tops itself. Feb 27 10:37:15 That wont take long to happen then Feb 27 10:37:48 timeless, this attention whoring behavior can't be healthy. :( Feb 27 10:37:59 yeah well... um Feb 27 10:38:08 how about i get lunch ? :P) Feb 27 10:46:56 hello good maemoians :) Feb 27 10:47:19 morning :) Feb 27 10:48:50 Do any of you hotshot development people use lintian when you create packages for maemo? Feb 27 10:49:07 (lintian is the debian policy checker for those who don't know.) Feb 27 10:49:12 no Feb 27 10:49:17 heh Feb 27 10:49:21 :) Feb 27 10:49:23 No, packaging is too much hassle as it is Feb 27 10:49:33 RST38h: Yeah - fair point. Feb 27 10:50:02 RST38h: What are the pain points? What sucks about packagingg? Feb 27 10:50:11 How can we fix it. Feb 27 10:50:21 jeremiah: many disconnected config files to make changes to Feb 27 10:50:35 Okay. Feb 27 10:50:37 makefile, control, changes, etc. Feb 27 10:50:43 yeah. Feb 27 10:51:08 debian tools breaking for weird sb-related reasons Feb 27 10:51:24 sb-related? Feb 27 10:51:24 (I am using sb2 though, so I have been warned :)) Feb 27 10:51:32 Oh, scratchbox Feb 27 10:51:50 Right now, whatever Perl scripts deb packager runs all complain about some locale misconfiguration Feb 27 10:51:56 Very noisily, too Feb 27 10:52:08 I suppose I should look at the buglist to find more scratchbox - debian issues. Feb 27 10:52:10 That is latest SB2 + Etch tools I think Feb 27 10:52:15 RST38h: Yeah, that is a hassle. Feb 27 10:52:23 I have had that in debian and in Ubuntu Feb 27 10:52:31 I will work on fixing that. Feb 27 10:52:48 Also, I am making binary only packages (none of my stuff is GPLed) so I have it a bit easier than the rest Feb 27 10:53:04 how so? Feb 27 10:53:11 No need to deal with autobuilder Feb 27 10:53:18 Ah. Feb 27 10:53:29 So the autobuilder is a source of frustration? Feb 27 10:53:38 AFAIK yes Feb 27 10:53:44 okay. Feb 27 10:54:11 I am going to look carefully at autobuilder logs to try to eliminate some of that stuff. Feb 27 10:54:21 There is also a long standing request to autogenerate changes section from the deb package Feb 27 10:54:24 mmm scratchbox seems to be done Feb 27 10:54:29 down Feb 27 10:54:42 is there any mirrors where i can get tarballs? Feb 27 10:55:25 I.e. when a deb package is dput (dputted? :)) to the repo, the server should extract changes list (and probably some other stuff like icon, app name etc) and automatically copy it to the maemo.org project page Feb 27 10:55:52 RST38h: You mean just to automatically create a complete change log from debian's - this is pretty much already done with dch Feb 27 10:55:57 Right now, doing it manually. No much hassle for a single package but becomes a chore when I commit 4-5 Feb 27 10:56:21 RST38h: I agree 100% with that - that should happen. Feb 27 10:56:21 jeremiah: The idea is not just to generate the log but to make it show at the maemo.org project page Feb 27 10:56:28 Now I get it. Feb 27 10:56:46 package also carries an icon and a full app name, etc - all these can be made use of Feb 27 10:56:48 'project page'? Downloads or Garage? Feb 27 10:56:52 darktears: What exactly is down for you? Feb 27 10:56:53 Downloads Feb 27 10:57:04 jeremiah_: sorry the website Feb 27 10:57:04 garage pages are not directly related to deb packages (usually) Feb 27 10:57:15 scratchbox.org Feb 27 10:58:07 jeremiah: For the bottomless bin of requests, I suggest you talk to the guys improving Maemo App manager. That would be Jaffa and a few other folks Feb 27 10:58:34 jeremiah: They are basically discussing much tighter integration of app manager with the repos (or extras repo at least) Feb 27 10:59:05 Did you try to install it using the scratchbox installer script from maemo.org? Feb 27 10:59:11 darktears: ^^ Feb 27 10:59:28 yes it wget on scratchbox.org Feb 27 10:59:30 RST38h: Okay, will do. Feb 27 10:59:31 screwed Feb 27 10:59:39 darktears: ah, okay. Feb 27 11:00:02 That's not good. Feb 27 11:00:49 i didn't find any mirros somewhere... Feb 27 11:00:54 mirrors Feb 27 11:01:27 . Feb 27 11:04:43 darktears: I have filed a bug about it. Feb 27 11:05:21 Seems to be some other related internet issues in Finaland as well, can't reach movial.fi Feb 27 11:05:41 Finland has fallen off the internet. Feb 27 11:06:21 loool Feb 27 11:06:40 not all of it Feb 27 11:06:43 at least having mirrors in case can be good :D, scratchbox is not big Feb 27 11:06:51 wE're here Feb 27 11:07:11 jeremiah_: but thanks Feb 27 11:07:14 yay! At least timeless is online. Feb 27 11:07:17 :) Feb 27 11:07:45 more like waiting for a manager who is late for a meeting Feb 27 11:07:53 aha Feb 27 11:08:33 So... I still need a solution Feb 27 11:08:50 I'm tempted to just have my packages refuse to uninstall Feb 27 11:16:18 timelE61i: Yes - I am still working on it, there are a couple other things on my plate too, but I have not given up. Feb 27 11:25:41 errr.... how should we fix a 3rd party server that is down? Feb 27 11:26:05 what is a " scratchbox.org is down " report about? to use more mirrors in the scripts? otherwise it's invalid... Feb 27 11:27:25 heh, if movial went bankrupt maemo sdk installer would be fried? :P (didn't read bug report) Feb 27 11:27:49 andre: you can find a contact and report upstream :) Feb 27 11:27:57 "hey, foopy, your servers are down" Feb 27 11:28:05 errr Feb 27 11:28:07 but we could also host our own mirror Feb 27 11:28:22 relying on a third party for the sdk is um... Feb 27 11:28:52 well, it happens all the time. same problem with some external dependencies in gnome :-P Feb 27 11:28:56 this is the internet Feb 27 11:48:09 ermmmm could someone give me warning if movial get into difficulties and decide to have an omap3 firesale Feb 27 11:48:15 ;) Feb 27 11:53:21 * Stskeeps tries out prelinking on 770 for kicks. Feb 27 11:59:54 does anybody know how to disable screen tap sound for a particular application? Feb 27 12:01:33 igagis: err Feb 27 12:01:46 timelE61i: ? Feb 27 12:01:48 If the user turns on or off sound globally Feb 27 12:02:00 Why should your app ignore the user's will? Feb 27 12:02:17 hm... my application produces its own sound on screen tap Feb 27 12:02:45 and when there is that default sound played in parallel it sounds bad Feb 27 12:02:51 and if the user turns off screen sounds? Feb 27 12:03:44 actually my application is made to produce sounds Feb 27 12:04:19 Anyway.. Standard technique: Feb 27 12:04:32 1. Make a backup of your settings Feb 27 12:04:48 my app is a kind of musical instrumen, when you tap screen it produces sound Feb 27 12:04:54 2. Change the setting you don't know about from control panel Feb 27 12:05:04 3. Make a new backup Feb 27 12:05:14 4. The backups are zip files Feb 27 12:05:20 You can compare them Feb 27 12:05:30 andre__: Well, I thought I should report it to someone . . . Feb 27 12:05:47 andre__: Where should a report about scratchbox.org being down go to? Feb 27 12:05:48 Similarly, you can zip /var/lib/gconf which is where settings actually live Feb 27 12:05:52 And diff that Feb 27 12:05:59 ok, understood Feb 27 12:06:20 but I wonder how other applications which works with sound disable that tapping sounds? Feb 27 12:07:25 the best way would be to disable tap sounds only for my application, while, if user taps outside the application window the tap sound would still play... is it possible? Feb 27 12:07:50 Thus, I need to disable these sound only for a life time of the application Feb 27 12:13:04 timelE61i: from your explanation it looks like these sounds are produced somewhere in low level layers, possibly on driver level, so, it is not possible to control it per application, only system wide, by changing system settings. And also not possible from application. Anyway, thanks for help! Feb 27 12:13:57 igagis: you can probably temporarily switch it in gconf though Feb 27 12:14:38 i haven't read the sources Feb 27 12:14:55 jeremiah_, to someone who can fix it :-D Feb 27 12:14:58 But the way it works is the sound is triggered *early* Feb 27 12:15:05 (means: no idea) Feb 27 12:15:09 Long before the app gets the message Feb 27 12:15:28 So the user knows that the system is going to respond Feb 27 12:15:38 the tap sound is produced by the closed source multimediad Feb 27 12:16:27 Ok, I may be thinking to switch it on gconf temporarily somehow... Feb 27 12:31:12 igagis, look at boxar Feb 27 12:31:20 it does same thing Feb 27 12:31:40 alternatively pyano does as well Feb 27 12:31:59 not sure about the tap click sound, but it might be depending on which widget set you are clicking on Feb 27 12:46:08 lcuk2: ok, I'll have alook at boxar, thanks Feb 27 12:47:34 andre__: Who might that be? Feb 27 12:47:46 Nokia owns the domain name Feb 27 12:49:06 scratchbox.org? Feb 27 12:49:59 Movial, not Nokia Feb 27 12:52:41 hello kids Feb 27 12:52:50 hi mum Feb 27 12:53:44 * lcuk2 practices juknitku but gets himself tied in knots Feb 27 12:53:50 ello Myrtti Feb 27 12:53:59 * Myrtti pinches andre__s cheek Feb 27 12:54:35 morning Myrtti Feb 27 13:06:26 Stskeeps, if i rerun the flashing thing for mer again will it just overwrite everything on the mmc again Feb 27 13:06:42 which now? Feb 27 13:06:56 the same Feb 27 13:07:05 flashing thing = which one :) Feb 27 13:07:07 what ill do is rerun it and actually note down the observations Feb 27 13:07:10 lol Feb 27 13:07:16 installation of mer from scratch Feb 27 13:07:37 it should overwrite everything yes Feb 27 13:08:07 ill talk to you later about it anyway then, but if i make a note whilst doing it it may be easier to diagnose and find any root causes for things Feb 27 13:08:12 catch ya later on Feb 27 13:20:29 can mplayer on n800 play rmvb files? Feb 27 13:21:37 anyone know how to switch between sheets on gnumeric for maemo? Feb 27 13:23:59 -.- Feb 27 13:28:04 the isp claims it should be up in an hour Feb 27 13:28:24 But people should use sbox2 ;) Feb 27 13:29:19 If they find getting pissed off a favourite pastime, then yes Feb 27 13:29:41 sb2 could be a lot saner, truely Feb 27 13:49:56 ~seen johnx Feb 27 13:51:58 johnx was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 7d 19h 15m 4s ago, saying: 'wazd, nice find :)'. Feb 27 14:06:44 Palm webOS detailed examples of producing apps: http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/27/palm-finally-manages-to-bore-us-to-tears-with-webos-mojo-sdk-tut/ Feb 27 14:18:37 Stskeeps: yeah dunno where he disappeared to... Feb 27 14:18:54 Stskeeps: i've been looking for him for a while <_< Feb 27 14:18:58 * rm_you runs Feb 27 14:19:36 alright, we'll see :P hope he's alright Feb 27 14:20:33 thanks jaffa, ill look later Feb 27 14:29:23 jeremiah_: please write back if you are online.. Feb 27 14:35:38 Who are these entities? What are they doing? http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/news/item/9052_Nokias_Connected_Worlds_To_Dis.php Feb 27 14:36:12 'Spellbound Hermit'? Feb 27 14:36:25 ah, true. SL. Feb 27 14:36:55 ewwwww secondlife Feb 27 14:38:54 * Stskeeps ponders how to improve performance on 770 Feb 27 14:39:43 liquid nitrogen? Feb 27 14:40:19 i bet you'd get 5GHz out of that baby Feb 27 14:40:23 cyanide might do it. die before it's loaded, go to heaven anyway Feb 27 14:40:23 :P Feb 27 14:41:10 thopiekar: Hi there! Feb 27 14:41:19 tried prelink but it didn't work :) Feb 27 14:41:57 jeremiah_: where are my streamripper packages I uploaded to extras before? Feb 27 14:42:17 I'm not sure thopiekar. :) Feb 27 14:42:41 hmm.. uploading them again? Feb 27 14:42:47 I don't think anyone removed them, if that's what you mean. Feb 27 14:42:55 :P Feb 27 14:43:02 I know I didn't, and I doubt X-Fade did. :) Feb 27 14:43:15 :D Feb 27 14:43:23 I can take a peak though . . . Feb 27 14:43:40 * jeremiah_ looks in the repos for thopiekar's packages Feb 27 14:46:12 I see streamripper 1.63 in extras Feb 27 14:47:48 hmm I was looking for them in the promotion list of diablo but they where nowhere in the list I think... thanks for looking anyway :P Feb 27 14:48:06 Sure thing! Feb 27 14:48:44 when next version is out? Feb 27 14:49:03 Of Maemo? Feb 27 14:49:07 n810 Feb 27 14:49:10 Next version of what? Feb 27 14:49:20 jeremiah_: maemo.. :P Feb 27 14:49:42 n900 Feb 27 14:50:00 * Myrtti takes out her crystal ball Feb 27 14:50:18 jeremiah: About autobuilder: Feb 27 14:50:32 Myrtti: :D Feb 27 14:50:48 jeremiah: There is a Python guy who was having problems with it. The nickname is Khertan, at this channel Feb 27 14:50:48 *squeak* *squeak* Feb 27 14:51:08 a bit spotty reception, must be because I sneezed on it Feb 27 14:51:15 jeremiah: For C/C++ autobuilder users, I guess it is lardman, qwerty12, Stskeeps Feb 27 14:51:25 i have never touched autobuilder. :P Feb 27 14:51:34 Myrtti: ;D Feb 27 14:51:48 RST38h:ah, okay. Feb 27 14:51:58 Ok, scratch Sts out =) Feb 27 14:52:32 jeremiah: two more packaging related issues: Feb 27 14:52:57 jeremiah: 1) installing stuff into ~ and 2) installing data to /dev/mmc* Feb 27 14:53:06 sorry/ media/mmc* Feb 27 14:53:09 woodong50: http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Maemo_roadmap/Fremantle Feb 27 14:53:36 RST38h: Hmm, installing into ~/ should not be hard. Feb 27 14:53:50 jeremiah: #1 has no decent solution right now, you have to resort to referring to /home/user directly but (fortunately) we have only got one user :) Feb 27 14:54:38 jeremiah: #2 is usually done with one or another hack, but it is usually not pretty and a lot of packagers do not do it Feb 27 14:54:43 RST38h: So you mean ~ does not work as an alias for /home/user? Feb 27 14:55:13 jeremiah: if you use ~ in the Makefile of a deb package, it causes some problems Feb 27 14:55:29 jeremiah: I don't remember what exact problems, but it does not work Feb 27 14:56:29 jeremiah: about #2: N8x0 / device is only 256MB in size and with some packages easily exceeding 10MB it gets filled up very very quickly Feb 27 14:57:15 jeremiah: So, a semistandard method of offloading ALL non-executable stuff to an mmc is a must (and packagers SHOULD use it) Feb 27 14:57:23 Interesting. Feb 27 14:58:10 An An mmc is a multi media card? Feb 27 14:58:14 Yes Feb 27 14:58:37 There are two MMCs, N800 has them both external, N810 has a 2GB /media/mmc2 soldered to the board Feb 27 14:58:57 Yeah. I think better documentation around that (in fact both those issues) would help. Feb 27 14:59:04 big packages like games can usually have their data reside on mmc Feb 27 14:59:06 My guess is that mmc2 should be the default data location, with an option to select mmc1 Feb 27 14:59:20 I can vaguely recall that ~ is significant to debian packages so that is unlikely to get fixed. Feb 27 14:59:21 Myrtti: I played around with KnitML a bit, tried to understand that, somewhat failed because the only stitch I know is like... k2p2 and k2tog >_> had my GF try to explain others to me but failed Feb 27 14:59:32 jeremiah: remember that we build packages in scratchbox Feb 27 14:59:59 jeremiah: and scratchbox is somewhat of a schizo, sometimes it behaves like guest, other times like host Feb 27 15:00:26 RST38h: Okay. I need to do more work in Scratchbox to understand the environment better Feb 27 15:00:37 jeremiah: and sb2 too :) Feb 27 15:00:52 So right now we have _two_ development environments? Feb 27 15:00:56 Yes. Feb 27 15:00:57 Both supported? Feb 27 15:01:05 anybody using irssi from -devel btw? want to see if i can promote it (i'm not an irssi 'xpert & only did basic testing). Feb 27 15:01:10 SB2 is a "beta" but it is supported if you ask right people nicely Feb 27 15:01:25 I see. Feb 27 15:01:30 SB2 is by far saner, but still on the clinical side Feb 27 15:01:38 Sheesh, things are a bit complicated. Feb 27 15:01:47 unfortunately. Feb 27 15:02:08 Just like real life. :) Feb 27 15:02:17 actually, more complicated Feb 27 15:02:23 heh Feb 27 15:02:26 true Feb 27 15:02:29 in real life, we would just have a cross compiler toolchain Feb 27 15:03:26 Like I have for SigmaTel or ICNexus platforms Feb 27 15:03:53 * Jaffa scrollsback a bit - packages shouldn't be installing into ~ (or /home/user) any more than they should on Ubuntu or Debian (i.e. not at all) Feb 27 15:04:08 * Jaffa 's done C stuff with autobuilder (e.g. vim package from mud-builder) Feb 27 15:04:50 Jaffa: There are cases when they should. I need to create a directory to save app state for example Feb 27 15:05:10 RST38h: No, you still shouldn't do that on install. Your app should create the dir if necessary when saving the state Feb 27 15:05:17 Shouldn't that kind of thing go into /var/cache? Or some such? Feb 27 15:05:27 Jaffa: I need to place some initial state files there Feb 27 15:06:03 RST38h: and, again, initial state files shouldn't be in /home/user - this'd all break horribly if your app was used on a multi user system (e.g. Mer at some point, perhaps - or maybe even Maemo) Feb 27 15:06:20 * jeremiah_ reads his dead tree version of Maemo Packaging policy Feb 27 15:06:30 Jaffa: maybe you are right, I have to rethink it Feb 27 15:06:41 Jaffa: it will require some internal changes in the app though Feb 27 15:06:44 RST38h: if it's single user stuff, and the state needs to be held - then as jeremiah_ says, use /var/cache or /usr/share or something Feb 27 15:06:51 Yea Feb 27 15:06:54 RST38h: no doubt - it sounds a little shonky at the moment ;-) Feb 27 15:07:27 * Jaffa 's been doing code reviews all morning, and debugging a Hibernate weirdity. Probably not the most forgiving of architectural hiccups at the moment :) Feb 27 15:07:44 i tohught you did not maintain anything statewise outside of ~ Feb 27 15:07:44 eek Feb 27 15:07:47 Jaffa: fun stuff. :-P Feb 27 15:08:11 lcuk: ~/.ati85/*.RAM =) Feb 27 15:08:27 jeremiah_, how do you follow links with these "dead tree" documents? Feb 27 15:08:43 Sargun_Screen: I *think* it might be a Hibernate bug: it works on a version of our database with a single id column, but not on a composite key version. Feb 27 15:09:09 jeremiah_, get yourself a NIT and read from there Feb 27 15:09:17 lcuk2: It is exceedingly painful. :P Feb 27 15:09:31 I press the link until my fingers bleed. Feb 27 15:09:36 Then give up. Feb 27 15:09:42 Jaffa: hibernation is a hack. Feb 27 15:09:54 Sargun_Screen: This is hibernate.org, not Linux hibernate FWIW Feb 27 15:10:03 The packaging policy says; Feb 27 15:10:10 I think it will change... i don't think it will disappear entirely. Feb 27 15:10:19 Section 9, 9.1 File system Hierarchy Feb 27 15:10:27 jeremiah_: Kinda like http://www.magnetnerd.com/Neodymium%20Magnets/Dirks%20Accident.htm (not for the squeamish - or those afraid of magenets) Feb 27 15:10:38 "TODO: This section has not been written yet." Feb 27 15:10:38 Jaffa: any kind of hibernation. :-) Feb 27 15:11:28 Jaffa: i saw that last night, scary stuff. Feb 27 15:11:56 Jaffa: That was nasty! Feb 27 15:12:14 Jaffa: Now I scared of magnets. Feb 27 15:12:42 Jaffa: I stole one of those magnets when I took an old HD apart :) Feb 27 15:15:23 jeremiah: You should really ask Nokia to give you a personal NIT Feb 27 15:15:42 jeremiah: It makes reading stuff on the go way easier Feb 27 15:15:53 jaffa, is that the guy who crushed his index finger? Feb 27 15:16:11 or the one who tried reading maemo app policy :P Feb 27 15:17:07 lcuk2: the former :) Feb 27 15:17:57 i saw that, those neobomdium (spelling way off i know) magnets are lethal, after reading that i went reading up on the consequences of ingesting 1 or more of them Feb 27 15:18:26 its not something you want to do Feb 27 15:22:46 scratchbox.org down? Feb 27 15:23:13 ezadkiel_mB: apparently Feb 27 15:23:35 Jaffa: thanks Feb 27 15:29:05 RST38h: I did ask for one, they said it is in the mail. :) Feb 27 15:29:59 I will buy one myself it does not turn up soon though. Feb 27 15:44:41 How can I run avahi-daemon in the scratchbox? [sbox-DIABLO_ARMEL: /etc/default] > fakeroot avahi-daemon -D Feb 27 15:44:41 This program is intended to be run as root. Feb 27 16:44:03 woot! launched lxde on gentoo today Feb 27 16:44:56 that's cool :) virtual kb + browser and bye-bye, hildon :) Feb 27 16:48:33 wow Feb 27 16:48:35 http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2009/02/27/vmware-mvp-weds-windows-ce-and-android-in-unholy-matrimony-on-du/ Feb 27 16:54:55 RST38h, you mentioned a while ago you have some apps on s60, just looking through now, and whilst theres the brainfsck of c++ to wade through im not seeing anything technical that says i cant move liqbase over to it. theres full screen interaction stuff available from what i can see Feb 27 16:56:42 Rebel Moon! Feb 27 16:56:50 thats no moon! Feb 27 17:02:23 Jaffa: multiple devices may make sense though, and different storage sizes Feb 27 17:02:35 it's like a thousand voices cried out, then were silenced Feb 27 17:02:47 i mean, we do clearly see phone stuff, but they also said next tablet is 3g-only :P Feb 27 17:02:59 (and hey, i'd love choice. :P) Feb 27 17:04:21 do i remember rightly about the multiple form factors. Feb 27 17:04:32 wasnt it something ragnar said when discussing the dpad Feb 27 17:04:58 either you choose to be at your desk on time from now on, or you choose to find yourself another job Feb 27 17:05:07 do I make myself clear Mr. Anderson? Feb 27 17:05:38 Proteous: damnit, why do you have to complain when i come into work in boxers only on casual friday. :P Feb 27 17:05:46 heh Feb 27 17:05:54 Stskeeps: where did they say next tablet is 3G only? Multiple storage sizes I can believe, but I have difficulty believing in different form factors Feb 27 17:06:07 * Proteous closes his eyes and wishes as hard as he can for a dpad that can be used for games Feb 27 17:06:24 Proteous, Yes, Mr. Rhineheart. Perfectly clear. Feb 27 17:06:33 Jaffa: hmm, thought it was on slides from summit. i may be wrong. Feb 27 17:06:34 They're certainly ensuring that in future Nokia will be able to have multiple Maemo devices in various form factors; I just don't think it's yet (although I wait to be pleasantly surprised) Feb 27 17:06:45 but they have emphasized hsdpa -data- often, i think :P Feb 27 17:06:55 Thomas Anderson? Feb 27 17:07:01 Stskeeps: They've only said positives about it having HSPA data. They're never ruled anything else out Feb 27 17:07:08 re Feb 27 17:07:24 Proteous, Neo! Man, get with it! :P Feb 27 17:07:34 no no no, that's the next line, the fedex guy Feb 27 17:07:43 you are suppose to say, Yeah, that's me Feb 27 17:07:46 Stskeeps: I can't reconcile what we've seen about the phone stuff with a decent tabletesque form factor; unless it's reliant on BT headsets (and we know we're getting A2DP and AVRCP) Feb 27 17:07:50 then I say, have a nice day Feb 27 17:07:56 Hello, Neo. Do you know who this is? Feb 27 17:08:06 !!! morphius? Feb 27 17:08:14 Yes. Feb 27 17:08:30 I don't remember the next part well enough :P Feb 27 17:08:40 Jaffa: on the other hand, telephony-maemo in bluez.. Feb 27 17:08:46 Proteous, so don't I... :P Feb 27 17:09:17 When I tell you go to the end of the row, to the door at the end of the hall Feb 27 17:09:19 NOW Feb 27 17:09:31 aaaanyway Feb 27 17:10:34 jaffa, we have multiple form factors now, and as brother and sister the 800/810 are, they are totally different in terms of usability and expectations from users Feb 27 17:10:48 yeah, the 810 is way better Feb 27 17:10:59 Stskeeps: indeed Feb 27 17:11:01 I mean, who wouldn't want a keyboard Feb 27 17:11:06 the keyboard is the principle differentiator for these devices Feb 27 17:11:10 WHO WOULDN'T I ASK YOU!! Feb 27 17:11:11 WHO Feb 27 17:11:12 Stskeeps, did you have ugly touchscreen behaviour in lxde? Feb 27 17:11:19 lcuk2: The N810 replaced the N800. Nokia never intended them to be complimentary devices on sale at the same time. Feb 27 17:11:23 I wouldn't want a keyboard. Feb 27 17:11:24 Proteous, you can get by without a keyboard if the touchscreen is efficient enough Feb 27 17:11:33 slonopotamus: hmm? Feb 27 17:11:33 get by, GET BY Feb 27 17:11:38 I bought specifically n800 because it doesn't have a keyboard. Feb 27 17:11:39 you can have your "get by" Feb 27 17:11:47 N810W and N810 are the first two Maemo devices in production at the same time properly Feb 27 17:11:47 heh Feb 27 17:12:06 Stskeeps, it doesn't handle mouse_up well Feb 27 17:12:07 Myrtti, a lot are fine without it (iphone mindset) but an awful lot cant live without em Feb 27 17:12:09 * Myrtti feels unloved Feb 27 17:12:11 most people buy the n800 for the two mem card slots Feb 27 17:12:28 other then that it's just a larger version of the 810 Feb 27 17:12:30 slonopotamus, mouse up from the tablets gets lost occasionally if the cpu is busy (at least in maemo) Feb 27 17:12:50 with a worse screen Feb 27 17:12:52 Proteous: n810 doesn't have the correct keyboard layout, so I don't want to pay for a wrong one Feb 27 17:13:00 Myrtti, why unloved? Feb 27 17:13:12 * Stskeeps dislikes the n810 keyboard too personally Feb 27 17:13:29 I don't think it's amazing, but I like it better then the fricking onscreen one Feb 27 17:13:38 lcuk2: because Proteous tells me I'm a freak! *snif* Feb 27 17:13:43 heh Feb 27 17:13:50 Stskeeps, tapping once counnts as mouce_down, not down + up Feb 27 17:13:58 I wouldn't listen to anything I say Feb 27 17:14:02 i prefer the keyboard on 810 no matter how imperfect it is, its STILL better than my old zx81 or rubber keyed spectrum! Feb 27 17:14:12 pft. Feb 27 17:14:12 hah Feb 27 17:14:18 luck hahahaaaa Feb 27 17:15:06 slonopotamus: ah, no clue. you have our input-tslib? Feb 27 17:15:12 best thumb keyboard ever was on my HP 48gx Feb 27 17:15:30 argh Feb 27 17:15:53 Stskeeps, i used one from gentoo repo Feb 27 17:16:06 Stskeeps, good catch Feb 27 17:16:41 Stskeeps, it's patched too? Feb 27 17:17:18 Stskeeps, i saw that you had 0.0.5 and i had 0.0.5. i assumed they're equal :) Feb 27 17:18:33 slonopotamus: there's a bug in it afaik Feb 27 17:18:38 regarding tap Feb 27 17:18:46 lemme find i Feb 27 17:18:47 t Feb 27 17:19:04 https://code.launchpad.net/~mer-committers/m-r/xf86-input-tslib Feb 27 17:19:15 Stskeeps, and tslib is 1.0 on my side Feb 27 17:19:49 good Feb 27 17:19:55 same as us Feb 27 17:21:13 Stskeeps, where 'patch for button release' comes from? Feb 27 17:21:34 andd who is John Bloom :D Feb 27 17:21:48 John Bloom is johnx Feb 27 17:21:53 slonopotamus: some bug report in debian Feb 27 17:22:29 Stskeeps, thanks for support :) Feb 27 17:22:56 found it: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=501139 Feb 27 17:24:02 ah. maybe just disable variance module? does it do anything useful? Feb 27 17:24:15 no clue Feb 27 17:24:21 the patch i have works Feb 27 17:25:24 k. Feb 27 17:26:11 next question. udev times out with bluez-utils installed and then barfs something about hci0. Feb 27 17:27:00 do you have the ln -s's to firmware? Feb 27 17:27:11 bc4fw.bin i think Feb 27 17:27:17 argh. nope. Feb 27 18:06:33 http://www.androidauthority.com/index.php/2009/02/20/video-of-texas-instruments-zoom-with-omap3-processor/ i want one of those! Feb 27 18:08:43 lcuk2: Ref. board for the RX-51? ;-) Feb 27 18:09:17 lcuk: these are cute yes... well, the price could be worse. Feb 27 18:09:34 $1000-$1500 technically not *that* bad lol Feb 27 18:10:12 lcuk: hum well... its not really a consumer device Feb 27 18:10:27 florian, dont expect it to be, hows your beagle coming on? Feb 27 18:10:27 Beer o'clock Feb 27 18:10:31 mmmmmmm beer Feb 27 18:11:56 lcuk: yes pretty good - except of the fact that i lack the time to do the interesting things with it I have in mind Feb 27 18:12:20 lol i wouldv jumped on one by now if it was all nicely built like that ref board ^ Feb 27 18:12:41 i too would be sat there staring at a bare circuit board Feb 27 18:13:07 :) Feb 27 18:17:02 jaffa, have you put any thoughts to your movie converter recently. is there anything you would liek it to do but cant so far, or things you think might become possible with hspa access etc Feb 27 18:19:59 lcuk: There's apparently a bug in it relating to subtitles; it probably could improve DVD ripping by trying to identify episode names/movie names by default (somehow); and it'll need a rename if they're not "tablets"; but the encoding side of it seems pretty feature complete - apart from a nice GUI Feb 27 18:20:20 lcuk: you offering to code stuff, or give me freebies? ;-) Feb 27 18:20:46 im just pondering about desktop interaction and your app touches on it :) Feb 27 18:21:16 obviously mud builder is the other one that rolls around often ;) but for other reasons Feb 27 18:22:13 lcuk: some thumbnail & metadate generation for liq* could work Feb 27 18:22:40 entirely possible with tracker underneath, thats its prime function isnt it Feb 27 18:23:12 though i personally dont like media libraries :D Feb 27 18:27:32 jaffa, i hope what im writing will work, so far its going kinda smoothly, and i think im over my biggest humps, but the biggest challenges lie ahead.. Feb 27 18:30:05 Would it be difficult to install the os so it would boot from one of the cards? to have more space for programs? or is it possible to force programs to install on the sd card? Feb 27 18:30:11 :) Feb 27 18:30:19 ~boot-sd Feb 27 18:30:19 DavidePalm: see... Feb 27 18:30:20 i heard boot-sd is https://wiki.maemo.org/Booting_from_a_flash_card Feb 27 18:30:25 ta Feb 27 18:30:33 thx Feb 27 18:30:59 Anybody have a kismet package for the 770? Feb 27 18:35:03 Jaffa To improve performance (note, this is dependent on the quality of your flash card). Feb 27 18:35:15 what does that mean? Feb 27 18:35:39 what sd card is better than the flash memory? Feb 27 18:36:23 how fast does the card have to be? Feb 27 18:39:23 anyone? Feb 27 18:40:37 dunno DavidePalm just get the fastest you can (class 6?) Feb 27 18:41:06 i have some crappy one here but barely notice speed problem in internal or mmc Feb 27 18:42:11 ok Feb 27 18:42:14 thx Feb 27 18:44:16 is it possible to make a complete clone of self? Feb 27 18:46:22 DavidePalm: the filesystem on the internal memory (jffs2) is compressed, so it may be actually faster and take less CPU to run from an external card with a uncompressed fs like ext3 Feb 27 18:46:44 but anyways difference is small, at least with my card Feb 27 18:47:01 zenvoid, o_O didnt realise. so its runtime compression when writing to ~ ? Feb 27 18:47:46 zenvoid, i see, does following that guide create an uncompressed file system automatically? Feb 27 18:48:37 lcuk: yes, jffs compression and decompression is handled transparently by the kernel Feb 27 18:48:50 each time you write or read Feb 27 18:48:52 * lcuk didnt know Feb 27 18:49:03 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JFFS2 Feb 27 18:49:30 my linux foo is lacking :) im happier messing with pixels Feb 27 18:49:41 :D Feb 27 18:50:05 i wonder then how much cpu that involves and what i could use it for instead Feb 27 18:50:40 no idea... I always run from sd card Feb 27 18:50:50 * Stskeeps wonders if ming387 is trying to get someone fired, heh Feb 27 18:51:05 all my os is in internal and the dev headers and stuff are there Feb 27 18:53:25 I've been wondering the same thing. He can't seem to get the hint. Feb 27 18:53:47 DavidePalm: yes, following that guide you will create an ext2 filesystem, so it will be uncompressed Feb 27 18:54:03 kk Feb 27 18:54:07 thx Feb 27 18:54:08 in fact, I think that jffs2 can't be used in the sd card Feb 27 18:55:31 i wouldn't mind compression once in a while Feb 27 18:56:51 am I right about this: Mer (so far) uses the same kernel as Maemo, so changes to the Maemo kernel affect my Mer distro too? Feb 27 18:57:00 yes Feb 27 18:57:31 So high speed kernel would make Mer high speed too, right? Feb 27 18:57:41 yes Feb 27 18:57:45 thanks Feb 27 18:57:50 zenvoid: remember the size of the left-hand icons btw? Feb 27 18:57:57 48x48? Feb 27 18:58:29 don't remember :P Feb 27 18:59:16 app menu is 64x64, menu you get when pressing home is 48x48 & task switcher on side is 26x26 Feb 27 18:59:24 k Feb 27 18:59:34 Stskeeps: Things were running too well on my Mer. Figure it's time to start over and try to ruin it all over again. Feb 27 19:00:18 qwerty12_N800: as in the icons in the left bar are 26x26? :P Feb 27 19:00:25 yes Feb 27 19:00:35 * lcuk curses icon sizes Feb 27 19:00:37 k Feb 27 19:00:43 I remember that some icons are not square, 64x54, I think, anybody knows? Feb 27 19:00:46 ...figure nothing will torch it quicker than unstable writing to my card. Feb 27 19:01:06 neatojones: meh, good old fashioned FS corruption never hurt anyone Feb 27 19:01:13 except for nuclear power plants, of cours Feb 27 19:01:58 Got a friend who is an engineer for one in Arizona. Makes $500k plus. Feb 27 19:02:14 Says they spends millions on researching the replacement of a simple push button. Feb 27 19:02:21 yes Feb 27 19:02:26 and thank god they do Feb 27 19:02:39 http://www.motivatedphotos.com/?id=10455 Feb 27 19:02:51 Analyzing before and after versions visible in the document demonstrates how the Association for Competitive Technology, a lobbying group partially funded by Microsoft, is trying to widen the scope of open source to include 'mixed solutions blending open and proprietary code.'" <- is Slashdot trying to imply BSD license is not open source? :P Feb 27 19:03:16 (read: i really should stop reading slashdot.) Feb 27 19:03:43 i can release an open source visual basic project Feb 27 19:03:52 that blends the two Feb 27 19:04:02 i dunno what license i would need cos of the underlying libs Feb 27 19:05:00 lcuk: I'd say lunch gets a PL7 Feb 27 19:05:11 Hello, friends! Today I want show you some my icons for Mer. Here you are - http://tinyurl.com/cy5v92 - apps icon, http://tinyurl.com/an6bxa - chat icon, http://tinyurl.com/cwe7yq - web icon. Wait for your criticism or additions. Feb 27 19:05:18 lol Feb 27 19:06:12 ShutteR77, people commonly put the icons in context and at expected scale ;) i love having things visible from orbit on the tablet, but when the messenger head is larger than my own it scares me :P Feb 27 19:06:41 * lcuk likes the first one though Feb 27 19:07:00 I like them, but I don't think the web icon is intuitive. Feb 27 19:07:07 http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/27/nokia-laptop-a-snapdragon-or-atom-based-netbook/ Snapdragon or Atom. I would've figured on an OMAP3640 myself. Feb 27 19:07:43 GeneralAntilles: i want a Z80 Nokia tablet. Feb 27 19:07:43 neatojones, reminds me of boobies, what else is the web for? Feb 27 19:08:03 Sorry for my mistake. Feb 27 19:08:04 qwerty12_N800, what's new with XChat? Feb 27 19:08:36 lol Feb 27 19:09:02 ShutteR77, not a mistake, just show em as we will see them on the tablet and people will marvel at your smooth lines :D Feb 27 19:09:03 I want a cortex A9 in my next tablet... Feb 27 19:09:33 neatojones, likely . . . in 2010 or 2011. Feb 27 19:09:50 GeneralAntilles: nothing much, python security fix, locales consolidated into one package & a patch where you press dpad enter in the network list to connect (and edit the network name in the edit dialog) Feb 27 19:09:56 ok Feb 27 19:10:06 less than a year away. ;) At the rate maemo 5 is coming (I'm joking people...) Feb 27 19:10:42 neatojones, early 2010 being when samples ship in volume to OEMs. Feb 27 19:10:52 neatojones, its not just maemo5. i still blame the whole worlds problems on the writers strike Feb 27 19:11:04 stupid writers... Feb 27 19:11:15 dang hollywood Feb 27 19:11:21 we need more bollywood Feb 27 19:12:08 ShutteR77: Could you put a watermark in the back of the globe of continent like shapes? Feb 27 19:12:44 Quit destroying my dreams GeneralAntilles Feb 27 19:13:57 * lcuk goes to asda since no reliable human cloning tech appeared Feb 27 19:13:57 neatojones yes I can, but not now, tomorrow i will do, now i have some tasks, sorry. Feb 27 19:14:18 no prob. It was just a thought. You don't ever HAVE* to do it. Feb 27 19:16:07 One thing is certain. The next tablet will hopefully be better put together than my new Nokia phone. I got it a month ago and I"m holding it together with electric tape. Feb 27 19:16:25 ...wait. 2 months ago. Feb 27 19:16:29 it's almost March Feb 27 19:16:41 my n800 has taken endless beatings Feb 27 19:16:45 it still loves me Feb 27 19:17:26 My N810 is doing pretty well too. But, getting a newer device that is put together sloppily still scares me. Feb 27 19:17:30 * qwerty12_N800 has smacked his N800 to the wall and has it smacked against a concrete floor. Still alive. Feb 27 19:18:40 * neatojones has a dog that trips on the N810 power supply and send the device flying across the room. (You'd think he'd learn to put it in a better place). Feb 27 19:19:37 brb...gotta run for some documents Feb 27 19:29:25 Well after last night I'm happy I didn't get ride of my windows home server I was able to fix me wiping the windows partiton on my desktop Feb 27 19:38:57 QTablet running hildon apps: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAwmW6_G0TM&feature=channel_page Feb 27 19:39:55 The following packages will be REMOVED: Feb 27 19:39:55 osso-software-version-rx44 Feb 27 19:39:55 The following packages will be upgraded: Feb 27 19:39:55 libglade2-0 Feb 27 19:40:08 Is it ok to remove osso-software-version-rx44? Feb 27 19:40:35 install the o-s-v unlocked version instead Feb 27 19:40:50 ~ssu Feb 27 19:40:51 [ssu] http://wiki.maemo.org/SSU Feb 27 19:41:35 ? Feb 27 19:41:50 apt-get install osso-software-version-rx44-unlocked Feb 27 19:42:24 with the unlocked version, you can install the newer version of libglade w/out removing o-s-v Feb 27 19:42:42 why it is locked? Feb 27 19:43:07 should I confirm removal of the locked version though? Feb 27 19:43:35 nah, install the unlocked version first and then you can upgrade as normal Feb 27 19:43:40 ok Feb 27 19:43:59 thanks =) Feb 27 19:45:11 it does not let me install the unlocked version Feb 27 19:45:25 osso-software-version-rx44: Conflicts: osso-software-version-variant Feb 27 19:45:25 osso-software-version-rx44-unlocked: Conflicts: osso-software-version-variant Feb 27 19:45:46 odd, osso-software-version-variant was for chinook Feb 27 19:45:55 hmmm Feb 27 19:46:24 1 Feb 27 19:48:18 hahlo, because Nokia only tests with a specific set of package versions. Feb 27 19:48:39 ah, ok Feb 27 19:48:48 Careless upgrades have the potential to cause instability and aren't supported. Feb 27 19:49:28 * GeneralAntilles wonders if karma is going to be fixed in time for the election. . . . Feb 27 19:49:52 Also: mad props to the first person to nominate. Feb 27 19:50:25 i am enjoying, in a perverse way, how few other people have picked up games porting in my absence Feb 27 19:52:04 Something makes me think it'll pick up for the next tablet. Feb 27 19:59:32 pupnik: even fewer are porting non-game apps Feb 27 19:59:56 * RST38h kinda got his wish of linuxdc++ port, but it is unusable =( Feb 27 20:01:44 dc++? Feb 27 20:04:50 qwerty12, anyway to get rid of scroll bars in zenity? http://pastebin.com/ma5cabfd Feb 27 20:07:13 mikkov_: you can set the size of the dialog, let me find how I did it Feb 27 20:08:04 ah, --width=WIDTH --height=HEIGHT Feb 27 20:08:27 and --title Feb 27 20:08:51 pupnik: it is a p2p app Feb 27 20:09:06 pupnik: used inside the community network here Feb 27 20:09:19 ah ty Feb 27 20:13:04 qwerty12, any way to get rid of "Cancel" button? :) Feb 27 20:15:05 mikkov_: Don't think so :(, when you press it, it returns " " so when I was using it, I added an if statement that runs zenity again when pressed :/ Feb 27 20:26:23 alas gcc-4.4 has to come quick Feb 27 20:26:34 and for fremantle too Feb 27 20:29:36 mikkov_: I'll try and add an option to remove the button tomorrow Feb 27 20:29:55 ah nice its at stage 3 Feb 27 20:30:18 I hope this means it will come in the next 2 months Feb 27 20:32:15 option to remove cancel button seems to be on todo list at http://live.gnome.org/Zenity, send patches there :) Feb 27 20:33:45 You'd have thought they'd have thought of this already :) Feb 27 20:34:37 <`0660> must be a trap Feb 27 20:34:50 <`0660> they try to lure new developers by omission of trivial features Feb 27 20:45:25 we should petition Obama to stimulate tablet sales Feb 27 20:45:30 sorry, lame comment Feb 27 20:47:50 <`0660> i think we should wait for the tablet to be released first :) Feb 27 20:48:20 s/tablet/something-not-a-tablet/ Feb 27 20:48:43 a bong? Feb 27 20:48:46 woglinde, are you implying a gcc point-0 release will be usable for arm? Feb 27 20:49:39 ShadowJK hm I think so Feb 27 20:49:44 after saw the commits Feb 27 20:49:56 and it will help a lot in terms of atomic ops Feb 27 20:50:56 Clearly it's tuna melt time. Feb 27 20:56:11 qwerty12_N800, actually I found use for that Cancel button Feb 27 20:58:40 if `zenity whatever` = " "; then run-standalone.sh dbus-send --print-reply --type=method_call --dest=org.freedesktop.Notifications /org/freedesktop/Notifications org.freedesktop.Notifications.SystemNoteInfoprint string:'rm -rf'ing /' :) Feb 27 21:01:45 hmm, I may just do that ;) Feb 27 21:02:40 then watch as your product gets only one star ;P Feb 27 21:05:56 cancel will refresh list of locations. User has a chance to insert memory card in the middle of install process Feb 27 21:06:46 (of course it will not be told in dialog :) Feb 27 21:08:06 but if I could change the text in buttons.. Feb 27 21:09:06 yeah... I have no idea what --cancel-label seems to do - at least "Cancel" still says "Cancel"... Feb 27 21:10:58 it seems to be only for --question Feb 27 21:12:42 You may be able to ask Bundyo for his gxmessage maemoized port & package for extras - that lets you set button text Feb 27 21:13:10 (looking @ http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18264) Feb 27 21:18:17 GeneralAntilles: it's always tuna melt time :) Feb 27 21:21:45 Arsonists Torch Berlin Porsches, BMWs on Economic Woe! Feb 27 21:22:06 that a headline? Feb 27 21:22:11 yea Feb 27 21:22:16 crazy Feb 27 21:22:32 Interesting method to raise demand for new cars Feb 27 21:22:36 meh, should have had a spot of joyridin' in 'em Feb 27 21:22:52 nickserv Feb 27 21:22:53 qwerty: They are real revolutionaries, not selfish! =) Feb 27 21:23:02 which is worse, Arson or Grand Theft Auto? >_> Feb 27 21:23:29 hi, does anyone know how to set configure option to use gstreamer instead of glib? Feb 27 21:23:40 at sofia-sip-cli Feb 27 21:23:54 in gta, you can use molotovs so you get best of both worlds :) Feb 27 21:25:46 hello, anyone knows sofsip-cli? Feb 27 21:26:54 correct me if i'm wrong, but don't glib & gstreamer provide *totally* different things Feb 27 21:27:07 Ahaha http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=267668&postcount=415 Feb 27 21:28:41 General: Oh YESSSS Feb 27 21:31:54 that's what i thought. but if you read the README here http://sofia-sip.org/repos/sofsip-cli/README, it can use gstreamer, but i don't know how to configure it through configure Feb 27 21:32:35 ./configure --help | grep -i gstreamer? Feb 27 21:32:44 one more question, it the maemo repository working alright now? i cannot use my apt-get update now Feb 27 21:33:13 b-man: is there any other solution to ubuntu besides your long guide? Feb 27 21:33:35 i'm working on an installer ;) Feb 27 21:33:36 zakkm, you can request a cd from canonical Feb 27 21:33:44 cheng_99: There were some scratchbox.org outages earlier, but that should be up now. Feb 27 21:33:49 or did you mean on the desktop Feb 27 21:33:52 i meant ubuntu on nokia, not desktop Feb 27 21:33:52 tablet Feb 27 21:33:58 i have for desktop Feb 27 21:34:12 jeremiah_, im gonna tell your wife you are ignoring her and doin work stuff :P Feb 27 21:34:16 that wouldnt require a long guide too.. "download ___" Feb 27 21:34:22 yah. the little artigo is a beast Feb 27 21:34:38 it's been doing the xp thing pretty good for what it is.. i mounted it on the back of my desk :) Feb 27 21:34:39 b-man: any experimental one i can try? like a pre alpha perhaps? Feb 27 21:34:43 lcuk: Heh! She is in the other room wathcing TV! Feb 27 21:34:46 :) Feb 27 21:34:55 I snuck away to talk to you lot. Feb 27 21:34:56 thats the open source excuse :P Feb 27 21:35:06 zakkm: i'm still creating it :) Feb 27 21:35:11 jeremiah_: but i cannot do update even now Feb 27 21:35:11 jeremiah_, you totally need a tablet. ;) Feb 27 21:35:21 I know! Feb 27 21:35:25 Then I can do both! Feb 27 21:35:30 Watch TV and surf! Feb 27 21:35:30 that way you can *pretend* to be watching tv Feb 27 21:35:31 hate long guides from nokia ;p Feb 27 21:35:31 * Myrtti can donate her 770 Feb 27 21:35:32 Failed to fetch http://repository.maemo.org/dists/diablo/sdk/Release.gpg Temporary failure resolving 'repository.maemo.org' Feb 27 21:35:32 heh Feb 27 21:36:05 i am trying to get maeo-cplusplus-env Feb 27 21:36:07 Myrtti, if you get rid of your 770 you will regret it! Feb 27 21:36:19 * b-man has been very busy lately and has only had a fuew hours out of the day to work on ubuntu :( Feb 27 21:36:20 a 770? :) Feb 27 21:36:24 lcuk: not if I give it out to a good cause :-P Feb 27 21:36:26 i doubt that haha Feb 27 21:36:34 lol Myrtti like giving blood Feb 27 21:36:39 Macer: it's perfectly good device! Feb 27 21:36:52 Myrtti: never said it wasn't.. but i doubt you will regret it Feb 27 21:37:03 macer, from what i understand the graphics bus on the 770 is more than capable (better even than 8x0) Feb 27 21:37:15 I'm probably going to keep it for running Mer on it Feb 27 21:37:24 Its amazing you guys (and gals) know all the models of Nokia products by their model numbers. Feb 27 21:37:25 * lcuk needs to get some loving time with a 770 running chinook Feb 27 21:37:30 but lacking in cpu/gpu/ram/features :) Feb 27 21:37:33 perhaps my partner will tinker it to be a remote control for the home automation system Feb 27 21:37:43 jeremiah_, theres only 3, its not rocket science Feb 27 21:37:54 Oh, only three that we care about. Feb 27 21:37:56 especially when you can get an n800 for peanuts :) Feb 27 21:38:09 b-man: does your guide if i follow it and before i do ubuntu-desktop, would it have ssh installed? ( i have n800 ) Feb 27 21:38:20 jeremiah_, unless you can divulge more :D Feb 27 21:38:38 lcuk: 1. They don't tell me anything. 2. NDA Feb 27 21:38:40 zakkm: most likely Feb 27 21:38:43 * Myrtti knows only about half of Nokias products by number Feb 27 21:38:50 770 is grandfather machine :) Feb 27 21:38:58 3. See 1. Feb 27 21:39:28 lcuk, as with all maemo.org staff, they don't know anything. :P Feb 27 21:39:31 jeremiah_, its ok, we will wait for the next summit, get you (and the rest of the nokians) drunk and find out everything Feb 27 21:39:41 good point Feb 27 21:39:43 you can ebay an n800 for like $100 Feb 27 21:39:43 jeremiah_: you're meant to be our nokia man on the inside! Feb 27 21:39:44 :) Feb 27 21:39:48 * qwerty12_N800 cries Feb 27 21:39:53 lol Feb 27 21:40:02 wonder how much a n770 is going for Feb 27 21:40:08 lcuk: Getting me drunk will be easy - you'll still get nothing from me. :) Feb 27 21:40:18 * lcuk waits for GeneralAntilles to fix macers typo Feb 27 21:40:21 Except that I know about . . . Feb 27 21:40:48 A nano meter thin tablet, that is made of epaper. Feb 27 21:40:54 heh Feb 27 21:40:56 hopefully by then we will have new toys to keep us occupied anyway Feb 27 21:40:56 Macer: there is no n770 device ;) Feb 27 21:40:58 lol Feb 27 21:41:01 Full qwerty keyboard in software Feb 27 21:41:03 zs: there sure isn't :) Feb 27 21:41:04 lcuk, I mean, why do you think we hired them? For their quick wit and good looks? Pah! They're the only ones we could con into working for used tablet slipcases. :P Feb 27 21:41:04 noooooooo nano thin is bad Feb 27 21:41:10 hehe Feb 27 21:41:11 it would cause horrendous papercuts Feb 27 21:41:15 Rolls up and folds into your pocket. Feb 27 21:41:23 One year battery life. Feb 27 21:41:39 jeremiah_, might i direct you to the book shop Feb 27 21:41:42 Wifi, 801b/g LTE, 4G, Wimax Feb 27 21:41:43 they have these kinds of devices Feb 27 21:41:47 i still like my n800 tho Feb 27 21:41:47 only with longer battery life ;) Feb 27 21:41:50 wish i had an n810 :) Feb 27 21:41:54 just for the qwerty Feb 27 21:42:05 buy one ;) Feb 27 21:42:06 qwerty is here somewhere Feb 27 21:42:07 not really for gps? :> Feb 27 21:42:07 And will cost 14 Euros! Feb 27 21:42:09 i have found myself using my G1 10x more than my n800 Feb 27 21:42:21 blah.. GPS is overrated Feb 27 21:42:29 n800 isnt a phone Feb 27 21:42:30 Macer: the android one? Feb 27 21:42:35 jeremiah_, which handheld devices have you got/had in the past? or have you come from all big machines Feb 27 21:42:35 oli: yes Feb 27 21:42:49 tank-man, voip is enough for 99% of phone uses Feb 27 21:42:57 lcuk: Mostly bigger machines - oddly enough they were embedded too. Feb 27 21:43:01 but he was comparing a phone to n800 Feb 27 21:43:07 also. if wimax was actually anywhere but baltimore.. i'd get a n810 w/ wimax in a heartbeat Feb 27 21:43:13 lcuk: But I do own one small hand held thingy. Feb 27 21:43:20 It was bought for my by my wife. Feb 27 21:43:25 damn you nextel/sprint! with your false promises Feb 27 21:43:29 what is it then Feb 27 21:43:36 Yes. Feb 27 21:43:45 tank-man: i meant in terms of usability Feb 27 21:43:51 not just for making phone calls Feb 27 21:44:06 slap skype on an n800 and you can cal people just fine :) Feb 27 21:44:50 i am talking about programs/features/usability etc... the qwerty goes a long way.. not to mention the stronger gpu in the G1 .. love my n800 tho.. it is a beast :) Feb 27 21:45:25 arrgh! why tf did I set xchat to highlight on qwerty >.< Feb 27 21:45:38 haha Feb 27 21:45:49 * lcuk likes the gpu on the 810 just fine. its better than the kindle one ;) Feb 27 21:46:04 lcuk: no 3d accel Feb 27 21:46:06 ;) Feb 27 21:46:06 qwerty, highlight bingo is good Feb 27 21:46:12 some nights it bongs all the time Feb 27 21:46:21 Macer, what do you need 3d for? Feb 27 21:46:33 better looking interface? Feb 27 21:46:48 3d snake? Feb 27 21:46:48 what? psdoom? Feb 27 21:46:49 :) Feb 27 21:46:56 what 3d interfaces exist now Feb 27 21:47:05 in regular use ^ Feb 27 21:47:11 android is rendered on the G1 Feb 27 21:47:21 lcuk, there isn't an active GPU on the N810. . . . Feb 27 21:47:24 pull out menu and stuff is tranparent and rendered :) Feb 27 21:47:46 transparent doesnt need 3d though? Feb 27 21:47:47 not to mention there are actually 3d acceled games forthe G1.. they suck.. but hey :) Feb 27 21:47:57 lcuk: it is still rendered Feb 27 21:48:04 gaming is different and i agree Feb 27 21:48:06 it is smooth Feb 27 21:48:14 yeah, i know all about smooth :) Feb 27 21:48:19 :) Feb 27 21:48:59 i would love to see how liqbase handled itself on a kindle Feb 27 21:49:20 i'm still sad over my damn shuttle Feb 27 21:49:46 lcuk: are you going to add fake-multitouch image stretching to next liqbase? :> Feb 27 21:49:51 piece of shit.. either i'll try to RMA it back to newegg or just get a new one for $90 from somewhere Feb 27 21:50:56 mmmnm, there might be native multitouch events which might be possible to ummm maybe somehow be creatively ummm abused in some manner but thats all tbc Feb 27 21:51:49 wow java is a whore Feb 27 21:51:54 but i hadnt thought about it too much recently, ive had other things to sort out Feb 27 21:51:57 lol Feb 27 21:52:10 sucking up everything around it and spitting it out with herpes Feb 27 21:52:35 ahhh then java isnt a whore, either that or you aren't paying it enough Feb 27 21:53:05 i guess my 1GHz C7 isn't paying enough Feb 27 21:53:10 :) Feb 27 21:53:22 heh Feb 27 21:53:46 wow nice :) Feb 27 21:53:47 laptop? Feb 27 21:53:53 but it is nice that i have a computer half the size of an internal optical drive mounted on the back of my desk Feb 27 21:54:04 zakkm: artigo Feb 27 21:54:06 sitting at my desk feels wrong, its got no tablet on it Feb 27 21:54:14 via pico-itx based system Feb 27 21:54:25 yeah i google'd :) Feb 27 21:54:35 it's pretty strong for what it is Feb 27 21:54:35 macer!! in times gone by i had a whole computer in a unit smaller than the keyboard im on now Feb 27 21:54:38 internet is going slow, trying to debootstrap ubuntu for nokia Feb 27 21:54:42 i want to try out the e17 :) Feb 27 21:54:44 * b-man updates tablet-wireless and tablet-network-setup in ubuntu repo Feb 27 21:54:45 and i have a handheld one with a screen as well Feb 27 21:54:50 lcuk: that would be the artigo :) haha Feb 27 21:54:58 zx spectrum actually :P Feb 27 21:55:03 *ubuntu-n8x0 Feb 27 21:55:19 ya ya sounds fun Feb 27 21:55:30 i like trying out stuff, and i love mac so im not switching desktop ;p Feb 27 21:56:03 macs are OK .. i never bought into them .. i was able to get a mb for $500 off of someone getting rid of it Feb 27 21:56:07 one of the smaller black ones Feb 27 21:56:14 omgg Feb 27 21:56:17 negative iphone story on slashdot.org with over 600 replys :) Feb 27 21:56:18 id buy that off you Feb 27 21:56:18 i mean.. it's OK.. i don't see what the big deal is :) Feb 27 21:56:25 Macer: i use mac x86.. Feb 27 21:56:28 zakkm: i use it Feb 27 21:56:34 oh Feb 27 21:56:37 i got it planned though, so full support and such Feb 27 21:56:39 hackintosh? Feb 27 21:56:39 heh Feb 27 21:56:40 real mac disc Feb 27 21:56:58 got a perfectly supported motherboard and all, i love mac :) Feb 27 21:57:10 what do they do that makes it different? Feb 27 21:57:11 got a 22" WS monitor the other day Feb 27 21:57:18 i mean is there just some sort of thing they put on it ? Feb 27 21:57:21 mac itself or hackintosh? Feb 27 21:57:25 Macer: an apple ;) Feb 27 21:57:44 hackintosh just uses a fake bootloader. Feb 27 21:57:48 to let it boot Feb 27 21:58:16 then theres people that make drivers for stuff apple wouldnt put in the OS Feb 27 21:58:28 it's just a mach kernel isn't it? Feb 27 21:58:32 yeah Feb 27 21:58:34 or alternative. Feb 27 21:58:36 :) Feb 27 21:58:42 i use an alternative, but mach works fine Feb 27 21:58:53 mach kernels aren't gpl ? Feb 27 21:59:01 yes they are Feb 27 21:59:08 well heh Feb 27 21:59:10 does apple release the source? Feb 27 21:59:12 its illegal anyways, hackintosh Feb 27 21:59:13 :) Feb 27 21:59:28 Yes, you can get Darwin for free Feb 27 21:59:40 The parts on top of it are proprietary Feb 27 21:59:44 Like Aqua Feb 27 21:59:45 Macer: kernel source is released as part of darwin afaik Feb 27 22:00:01 mac uses X.org too Feb 27 22:00:07 so it's just a mach kernel with a shitty wm? Feb 27 22:00:08 heh Feb 27 22:00:15 yup :) Feb 27 22:00:17 sounds like fbsd running aqua :) Feb 27 22:00:23 can it really? Feb 27 22:00:33 That is what it is, FreeBSD with Aqua Feb 27 22:00:43 oh Feb 27 22:00:43 haha Feb 27 22:00:45 And a bunch of proprietary apps Feb 27 22:00:50 talking that way Feb 27 22:00:54 But they are damn consistent. Feb 27 22:01:01 i thought you can get like freebsd 7.0 and install aqua as a package.. and yeah :D Feb 27 22:01:07 i was turned off by little things about it Feb 27 22:01:09 Especially with their user interface. Feb 27 22:01:19 the new safari 4 beta is beauitful Feb 27 22:01:20 like the inability to keep the thing turned on with the lid closed without installing a 3rd party app Feb 27 22:01:20 jeremiah_, apart from all the changes and incompatibilities along the way :P Feb 27 22:01:37 Macer :would be happy to take it off your hands :) Feb 27 22:01:39 then there was the inability to change the color of the desktop icon fonts Feb 27 22:01:50 Macer, really? I can't stand that Windows laptops absolutely refuse to sleep properly. Feb 27 22:01:52 * Myrtti huggles her xubuntu ♥ Feb 27 22:01:53 zakkm: naw.. i still use it.. ;) Feb 27 22:02:01 but an intelligent person asks why you are changing the desktop background? Feb 27 22:02:06 Awwww, huggles. Feb 27 22:02:18 GeneralAntilles: i had a few.. i think the only one that was a total piece of shit was the averatec Feb 27 22:02:21 :) Feb 27 22:02:25 Jeremiah huggles his debian machines(s) Feb 27 22:02:49 I just put Debian Women sticker I bought from Steve at FOSDEM on my laptop lid! Feb 27 22:02:55 kiitos Myrtti for the new word! Feb 27 22:03:07 jeremiah_: np :-) Feb 27 22:03:07 Did we meet at FOSDEM? Feb 27 22:03:11 we did :-P Feb 27 22:03:13 I think we did! Feb 27 22:03:16 That was fun Feb 27 22:03:25 Good to speak to you again. :) Feb 27 22:03:45 indeed :-) Feb 27 22:04:07 I need more stickers on my laptop :-/ Feb 27 22:04:17 it still has vacant spots Feb 27 22:04:22 Me too. Feb 27 22:04:49 * jeremiah_ is reading the maemo training material Feb 27 22:04:51 I want a maemo.org bumper sticker to slap on my Camry. Feb 27 22:04:57 jeremiah_: uh-oh :-D Feb 27 22:05:27 GeneralAntilles, that wont fool anyone, they will still know its a crappy car Feb 27 22:05:34 you would need a MASSIVE sticker to hide it Feb 27 22:05:40 lol Feb 27 22:05:46 tgif Feb 27 22:05:53 lcuk, crappy? Feb 27 22:05:55 actually, damn Feb 27 22:06:02 it's already Saturday Feb 27 22:06:05 I think you're confusing Civic with Camry. Feb 27 22:06:33 Umm, this is a tablet channel, not a car channel. Feb 27 22:06:37 :) Feb 27 22:06:40 have to love it when every article is missing in hella Feb 27 22:07:13 ah well.. i'm going to take a nap. spent a day with the gf .. she wanted to take me shopping to get myself some clothes Feb 27 22:07:16 jeremiah_, we are also geeks and slashdot readers, car analogies are important Feb 27 22:07:22 it was just one of those things you put up with Feb 27 22:07:27 jeremiah_, hey, I has ops! I decides what's on topic! :P Feb 27 22:07:27 * b-man sees mac osx as just being a semi closed-sorce variant of linux.. kinda Feb 27 22:07:38 b-man: fbsd Feb 27 22:07:41 heh Feb 27 22:07:44 GeneralAntilles: ... you think Feb 27 22:07:50 CAN I HAZ OPS?! Feb 27 22:08:01 if it were a variant of linux it would be a linux kernel not a mach kernel Feb 27 22:08:01 * Myrtti huggles GeneralAntilles Feb 27 22:08:04 ♥ Feb 27 22:08:21 b-man: Not at all - the kernels are completely different, as is the runtime Feb 27 22:08:27 love is in the air! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNC0kIzM1Fo Feb 27 22:08:33 b-man: Thread handling is different Feb 27 22:08:42 (though I associate that song to when my compiling craps out) Feb 27 22:08:55 jeremiah_, we've driven at least one user to idle in here on a totally separate account thanks to the spam. ;) Feb 27 22:08:57 or when my firefox hangs and I have to kill -9 it Feb 27 22:09:08 We've got expectations to meet and an image to consider. :P Feb 27 22:09:16 b-man: Plus, linux performs 30% faster than OS X on the same hardware! Feb 27 22:09:25 Flash just seems to get worse and worse on this computer with every upgrade. Feb 27 22:09:31 GeneralAntilles: Heh, can't handle the spam, get off the net. :) Feb 27 22:09:36 jeremiah_: uhm... Feb 27 22:09:40 GeneralAntilles: 64-bit system? Feb 27 22:09:44 GeneralAntilles: flash10? Feb 27 22:09:45 b-man: your guide mentions a "rootstrap" would that be okay to use? Feb 27 22:09:49 Macer: Err . . . Feb 27 22:09:52 Myrtti, OS X, PPC. Feb 27 22:09:55 oh. Feb 27 22:09:56 Yes, Flash 10. Feb 27 22:09:57 * Myrtti shuts up Feb 27 22:10:03 windows runs faster than linux :P Feb 27 22:10:09 haha Feb 27 22:10:15 lcuk: i was waiting for someone to say it Feb 27 22:10:26 lcuk: Yes, true, but only when it is in a linux virtual machine. Feb 27 22:10:27 my MUM runs faster than Windows Feb 27 22:10:29 The whole browser comes screeching to a halt for about 30 seconds while Flash loads. Feb 27 22:10:31 ~burn the heretic that is lcuk Feb 27 22:10:31 xp is going faster on my artigo :) Feb 27 22:10:32 * infobot pours gasoline all over the heretic that is lcuk, ignites the fire, and then enjoys some toasty marshmallows with the glorious blaze Feb 27 22:10:37 zakkm: shure, but remember to run apt-get dist-upgrade ;) Feb 27 22:10:43 lcuk, none of these "x is faster than x" comparisons are the least bit valid. Feb 27 22:10:52 BURN HIM! Feb 27 22:10:54 jeremiah_, no way, a well tuned xp desktop is superior Feb 27 22:10:56 lol Feb 27 22:10:56 BURN THE WITCH! Feb 27 22:10:57 XD Feb 27 22:11:00 BURN THE HERETIC Feb 27 22:11:06 guys, how do i stop a ssh in terminal? Feb 27 22:11:08 >:D Feb 27 22:11:09 ctrl D doesnt work? Feb 27 22:11:13 jeremiah_, according to your limited experience. Feb 27 22:11:14 ctrl-c? Feb 27 22:11:15 ohh C -.- Feb 27 22:11:17 and liqbase is EVEN faster than that! Feb 27 22:11:19 s/jeremiah_/lcuk/ Feb 27 22:11:20 GeneralAntilles meant: lcuk, according to your limited experience. Feb 27 22:11:21 i feel stupid Feb 27 22:11:25 i think linux wold have possibly ran faster on this thing if i had not used kubuntu Feb 27 22:11:29 zakkm: Type 'reset' then control-D Feb 27 22:11:29 what a mistake that was Feb 27 22:11:35 lcuk, if you want to bring out the scientific studies to prove your point, please do. ;) Feb 27 22:11:38 gnome ftw Feb 27 22:11:41 zakkm: don't, it's part of the natural learning process Feb 27 22:11:50 ie didn't have tabbed browsing until ie7? Feb 27 22:11:52 wtf? :) Feb 27 22:11:59 Macer: welcome! to the future! Feb 27 22:12:04 no i been using linux along time and such and cli and i kept typing D im like -.- woorrkkk Feb 27 22:12:06 GeneralAntilles, easy one, scrollbars - in linux they dont reach the very edge of the screen - i cannot just move mouse to right hand edge and click Feb 27 22:12:07 oh, this reminds me of... ZOMBO.COM! Feb 27 22:12:18 Myrtti: i don't like ie7... i guess i'll install chrome on this thing Feb 27 22:12:19 (prob down to windowmanager over linux itself) Feb 27 22:12:22 you can do anything at ZOMBO.COM Feb 27 22:12:32 they still let you get rid of ie completely in xp right? Feb 27 22:12:34 :) Feb 27 22:12:35 Macer: I haven't used IE since 5.5 Feb 27 22:12:39 lcuk: In fact recent studies and benchmarks show that certain parts of the Windows runtime run _faster_ in WINE than in Windows. Feb 27 22:12:48 :P Feb 27 22:12:57 Myrtti: i usually use it but i hate ie7.. but i think installing other browsers with ie installed is redundant Feb 27 22:12:58 but that still doesnt say linux runs faster Feb 27 22:13:04 that just shows that windows can be optimized more Feb 27 22:13:11 jeremiah_: some viruses work better in wine :p Feb 27 22:13:18 ie7 is horribly slow Feb 27 22:13:18 lol Feb 27 22:13:28 i solved a windows technical problem using wine the other day Feb 27 22:13:35 wonder if they have ie listed in windows components Feb 27 22:13:44 i would genuinely be interested to start to replace the MS libraries with the wine equivs Feb 27 22:13:45 windows has always been faster in my opinion but overtime comes to a crawl, while linux stays persistent doesnt matter when you last reformatted Feb 27 22:14:04 :D Feb 27 22:14:14 the problem with windows is the constant reboots Feb 27 22:14:33 that make you want to bash someone's head in with a Windows 3.11 for Workgroups manual Feb 27 22:14:41 and the virii, and the cost, and the license, and the FUD, and the bloat Feb 27 22:14:42 zakkm good point, but windows generally doesnt fall over if you keep it cleaned up, linux has a hickup and you lose your WM and are sat at a console going WTF? Feb 27 22:14:44 * b-man doesn't use windows :) Feb 27 22:15:06 doesnt it get cold? Feb 27 22:15:08 indeed, although it's a *bit* better in nt. 98/me would drive me crazy with the reboot level in that Feb 27 22:15:09 * jeremiah_ doesn't use Windows either. Feb 27 22:15:16 i know theres ccleaner and all , it was just something i used to say about the speed difference between linux and windows Feb 27 22:15:27 well. i'll be damned.. you can get rid of ie Feb 27 22:15:27 :) Feb 27 22:15:31 theres obviously exceptions but it is a general rule accepted by most ;p Feb 27 22:15:32 * Myrtti doesn't use Windows without being forced Feb 27 22:15:41 was that part of the anti trust settlement or something? Feb 27 22:15:44 windows doesnt get dirty unless you walk round with your muddy feet Feb 27 22:15:45 * oli used to use windows to play CS Feb 27 22:15:54 if you keep the ship clean and tidy it runs well Feb 27 22:16:09 Myrtti: same here :) Feb 27 22:16:18 I was forced in June ;____; Feb 27 22:16:29 wtf! hahaha Feb 27 22:16:30 lcuk: hijackthis and combofix do the thing Feb 27 22:16:35 lcuk: say that to the vista update that fucked up on every comp Feb 27 22:16:36 im gonna vanish anyway, theres a curry leakage in the fridge Feb 27 22:16:38 and I'm still the only one who takes care of my sisters PC (w2k) Feb 27 22:16:55 i just got rid of ie from the windows components .. then go to a web site address in explorer.. and go to help and about and it says "about internet explorer" Feb 27 22:17:02 so what does it do? just get rid of the icons? :) Feb 27 22:17:04 my niece and nephew know they can go asking for support for their Vista laptops from someone else than me Feb 27 22:17:09 qwerty12_N800, 1000000000% agree, everything of microsofts since 2003 has been downhill, i hate the OTT .net initiative and every single overloaded bloated pile of crap since Feb 27 22:17:10 whats combofix? Feb 27 22:17:30 actually, i dont hate .net, i hate visual studio Feb 27 22:17:36 it feels like eclipse Feb 27 22:17:37 what you talking about, windows 7 is fast :) Feb 27 22:17:39 * lcuk spits Feb 27 22:17:53 * b-man finishes updating ubuntu-n8x0 repo Feb 27 22:17:55 zakkm, cool so ill put it on my eee Feb 27 22:18:07 honestly they really did fix it up Feb 27 22:18:15 polishing a turd Feb 27 22:18:25 vista sp2 Feb 27 22:18:36 its not as eyecandy as vista though, but its like half way.. and veryy nice speed Feb 27 22:18:55 b-man: getting 10kb/s off that link for the rootstrap Feb 27 22:19:02 * lcuk goes currying Feb 27 22:19:12 http://www.bman.maemobox.org/projects/ubuntu-n8x0/Ubuntu-9.04-N8x0-v2.1.tar.gz Feb 27 22:19:30 mhm Feb 27 22:22:15 b-man:im getting like 2.2kb/s now? Feb 27 22:22:42 try re-connecting? Feb 27 22:22:52 i did Feb 27 22:23:01 and its my home wifi, and my dekstop is going fine Feb 27 22:23:06 i re ssh'd too Feb 27 22:23:15 differnet partition on nokia Feb 27 22:23:31 hmm - maybe AndrewFBlack's server is being slow ;p Feb 27 22:23:44 it says b-man in the url? Feb 27 22:24:17 * oli reporting 127kB/s - max ;) Feb 27 22:24:24 but it's not my server :) - he's just letting me use it ;) Feb 27 22:24:42 over 500GB :D Feb 27 22:25:06 oli: i got that bandwidth too Feb 27 22:25:16 but its not letting me download that fast, it did at first for like 2 seconds Feb 27 22:25:47 Nokia-N800-43-7:/mnt/ubuntu# wget http://www.bman.maemobox.org/projects/ubuntu-n8x0/Ubuntu-9.04-N8x0-v2.1.tar.gz Feb 27 22:26:40 save to your computer & untar it over usb Feb 27 22:26:43 oh works from desktop :) Feb 27 22:26:44 yeah Feb 27 22:26:56 :) Feb 27 22:26:58 * Myrtti crawls into her bed Feb 27 22:27:03 nini everyone Feb 27 22:27:04 qwerty12_n800: just started download, and then switched to irc, and saw your post ;p Feb 27 22:27:13 b-man: where in the guide would i skip to? Feb 27 22:27:15 g'night Myrtti :) Feb 27 22:28:47 zakkm: skip to step 6 Feb 27 22:29:12 but remember to run apt-get dist-upgrade before doingo ;) Feb 27 22:29:25 *doing so Feb 27 22:29:34 oh wow thats a big skip Feb 27 22:29:38 do i have to? Feb 27 22:29:44 im sure i will evantually, but does it matter for now? Feb 27 22:30:14 it's highly suggested - that image is getting old Feb 27 22:30:37 * b-man needs to make a new one soon Feb 27 22:30:43 want to see it at a desktop and all ;p and then update if that would work out Feb 27 22:30:56 i want to use the e17 :D Feb 27 22:31:08 :) Feb 27 22:31:20 hows battery life in it? Feb 27 22:31:23 compared to maemo? Feb 27 22:32:02 1-2 hours for heavy use, 2-3 hours for idle - with powersave Feb 27 22:32:14 withh gnome) Feb 27 22:32:20 * oli would like to try fluxbox on tablet Feb 27 22:32:29 wow thats terrible? Feb 27 22:32:31 why so bad? Feb 27 22:32:36 maemo is like 5-6 hours use ? Feb 27 22:32:46 i'm using a heavy desktop ;) Feb 27 22:32:59 2-3 hours idle though. Feb 27 22:33:12 it's more like 2-3 hours standard use Feb 27 22:33:26 hopefully e17 would help battery life ;p Feb 27 22:33:49 i'll bet it will make a huge diffrence ;) Feb 27 22:33:52 * Jaffa remembers when Enlightenment was viewed as the heavy, overly pretty, slow, bloated option Feb 27 22:34:02 hehe Feb 27 22:34:22 XD Feb 27 22:34:33 * qwerty12_N800 remembers using it in BeOS... Feb 27 22:34:42 20 minutes reamining for rootstrap Feb 27 22:36:00 zakkm: i would not worry too much about battery usage - it basicly uses the same ammount as deblet ;) Feb 27 22:36:12 never did try deblet Feb 27 22:36:14 attempted but failed Feb 27 22:36:31 it's not bad ;) Feb 27 22:38:48 1624 b/s... hmmm :( Feb 27 22:39:18 (b/s) Feb 27 22:39:28 getting what? Feb 27 22:39:44 running apt-get update Feb 27 22:39:54 thats okay isnt it Feb 27 22:40:04 that meter is always wrong Feb 27 22:40:09 not for my standards :D Feb 27 22:41:11 488 b/s O_o Feb 27 22:42:45 now it spiked to 95 kb/s.. lol XD Feb 27 22:43:06 i extract the rootstrap to mmcblk0p2 Feb 27 22:43:07 ? Feb 27 22:44:19 well, the mountpoint of /dev/mmcblk0p2 Feb 27 22:44:33 how do i make pop-ups? like in merinstaller script? Feb 27 22:44:52 notification bubbles? Feb 27 22:45:00 e.g. - mount /deev/mmcblk0p2 /mnt/jaunty ;) Feb 27 22:45:07 yeah i know Feb 27 22:45:10 but lets say i changed it Feb 27 22:45:16 is mmcblk0p2 the right partition Feb 27 22:45:20 qwerty12_N800: no, little dialog boxes with some text field or/and buttons Feb 27 22:45:40 zenity? :P Feb 27 22:45:47 oli: oh, i've uploaded zenity to extras - apt-get install zenuty Feb 27 22:45:57 s/zenuty/zenity/ Feb 27 22:45:58 qwerty12_N800 meant: oli: oh, i've uploaded zenity to extras - apt-get install zenity Feb 27 22:46:30 Step 6 ~ activating swap (recomended for ubuntu-desktop) Feb 27 22:46:31 This is assental for ubuntu-desktop to run smothly/sainly. Feb 27 22:46:31 ~burn his N800 Feb 27 22:46:32 * infobot pours gasoline all over his N800, ignites the fire, and then enjoys some toasty marshmallows with the glorious blaze Feb 27 22:46:35 what is wrong with that sentence ;p Feb 27 22:46:47 it didn't work ;p Feb 27 22:46:48 is assental a real word? Feb 27 22:47:02 got it installed , now I'll learn how to use it ;] Feb 27 22:47:04 infobot Feb 27 22:47:32 itT is just getting silly. Feb 27 22:47:40 :) Feb 27 22:48:10 GeneralAntilles: Use your powers to subdue the population! Feb 27 22:48:50 zakkm: yes, it is :P - gnome will run horrible without it :p Feb 27 22:48:59 noo Feb 27 22:49:05 it says assental .. which isnt a real word.. Feb 27 22:49:09 its essential Feb 27 22:49:16 This is assental for ubuntu-desktop to run smothly/sainly. Feb 27 22:49:37 oh - spelling mistake.. i'll correct it Feb 27 22:49:41 * Jaffa boggles at the number of people on ITT jumping up and down about how Nokia are not doing anything, how they're slipping, how the next tablet is like Duke Nukem Forever. Feb 27 22:49:49 Have I gone through the looking glass? Feb 27 22:49:51 i do highly believe gnome on the tablet would need swap :P Feb 27 22:50:15 hehe ;) Feb 27 22:50:22 isnt maemo speeding up alot lately? Feb 27 22:50:28 ubuntu port, mer is going fast.. Feb 27 22:50:41 Jaffa, I've pointed out all of the highly visible progress to danramos several times to no effect. Feb 27 22:51:03 ...because there using hildon? :) Feb 27 22:51:15 @zakkm Feb 27 22:51:18 It seems to be his only supporting argument for the "silence" is emphatic declaration. Feb 27 22:51:26 i know im just saying in the whole tablet sense Feb 27 22:51:34 things are going alot faster, in my mind Feb 27 22:51:35 "Nothing's happening because I say nothing's and there's nothing you can do to change my mind!!!" Feb 27 22:51:57 Jaffa,General: As I said, releasing a Diablo update with some of the upcoming Fremantle features (like kinetic scrolling) would go a long way toward proving all the fearmongers wrong Feb 27 22:52:15 what is kinetic scrolling? Feb 27 22:52:23 is that the after effect where it keeps going? Feb 27 22:52:26 * Jaffa isn't convinced about multiple Maemo devices *yet*. Peter's view is always longer term than the next device; and I think fremantle'll be the stepping stone to the multi-device ground-break Harmattan Feb 27 22:52:29 yes Feb 27 22:52:36 that was so cool in android :) Feb 27 22:52:45 used to do it for fun Feb 27 22:52:48 But, as things are, *nothing* is happening with the tablets everybody has at hands, and there isn't much to be done about it =( Feb 27 22:52:51 agreed :) Feb 27 22:53:04 RST38h: agreed, an OS2008.75 would've been good. But the next device could have had an OS which made as much use of it as OS2005 did on a 770 Feb 27 22:53:20 Jaffa, I don't buy it either. Feb 27 22:53:22 RST38h: install mer and you get kinetic scrolling goodness Feb 27 22:53:43 Perfect for the desperate end-user ;-) Feb 27 22:53:50 Jaffa: Mer isn't fully functional on the tablet and it does not come from Nokia, so it will only further public view that "Nokia is doing nothing" Feb 27 22:53:56 definitely fremantle wont work on n800? Feb 27 22:54:02 * RST38h isn't a desperate end user really. Feb 27 22:54:15 its not just rumoured? Feb 27 22:54:26 Got plenty of hardware to play with, much more so than time available for the play Feb 27 22:54:34 zakkm, most likely not unfortunately Feb 27 22:54:37 zakkm: It is looking very likely, that unless something changes, Nokia will not provide an end-user installable Fremantle image for N8x0 users. Feb 27 22:54:37 awesome its done downoading Feb 27 22:54:52 it could always turn out to be "hacker editions" ? Feb 27 22:55:08 Mer is the Hacker Edition. Feb 27 22:55:12 it's looking likely?? Feb 27 22:55:18 zakkm, RST38h, Jaffa: For kinetic scrolling and other Qt based stuff: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAwmW6_G0TM Feb 27 22:55:21 oh ;p Feb 27 22:55:21 zakkm: Much of Fremantle's tech is already being delivered through Mer, which is the proper- community-owned - Hacker Edition. http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer Feb 27 22:55:27 General: Remember, N800 and N810 were once marketed as multiple devices Feb 27 22:55:30 b-man: there was a negative in there ;-) Feb 27 22:55:35 couldn't resist to put that link.. Feb 27 22:55:40 General: But N800 soon faded into marketing oblivion Feb 27 22:55:43 RST38h: Not by Nokia IIRC Feb 27 22:56:14 Jaffa: Didn't Nokia said that N800/N810 are two equivalent harware-wise devices for slightly different needs? Feb 27 22:56:25 didn/hasn/ Feb 27 22:56:26 zchydem: I saw earlier, very swish. I think the background should move slightly (giving a parallax effect) when panning through the launcher left-to-right. Looked very odd with the static background. Feb 27 22:57:17 I wish we could fast forward a month or two and just be done with it. Feb 27 22:57:26 Jaffa: yeah, it's just in quite beginning.. Feb 27 22:57:30 Besides, it would be spring then =) Feb 27 22:57:36 RST38h: I honestly only remember Thoughtfix/Texrat et al saying that. Now, that could've come from Nokia briefing them, but I really don't remember anything from Nokia about it. Indeed, at the N810 launch it was all "who'd want an N800? The N810 has a keyboard, GPS and is smaller" Feb 27 22:58:01 Jaffa: Yea, I also remember thoughtfix saying this stuff Feb 27 22:58:06 b-man: does the root partition have to be ext3 , can it be ext2? Feb 27 22:58:35 "who'd want an N800?" - people who don't want a fixed size internal card :) Feb 27 22:58:36 Anyway, multiple Maemo devices seem unlikely unless Nokia really decides to ditch S60 for Maemo on high-end devices Feb 27 22:58:37 it can be ext2 but ext3 is a better format :) Feb 27 22:59:06 less likely to ruin your system after a crash) Feb 27 22:59:09 RST38h: agreed. I bet there are people high up in Nokia who may be paying more attention to Maemo in the next 12 months or so. Feb 27 22:59:23 Depending on how well open sourcing Symbian goes. Feb 27 22:59:46 Jaffa: Dunno, I am getting an impression that Maemo is more like a semi-research side project for Nokia Feb 27 23:00:08 Jaffa: More or less like that Itsy tablet (?) that ended up as iPaq Feb 27 23:02:35 b-man: according to your guide mmcblk0p2 = root... but it becomes 6mb? when you do 356,6 ? Feb 27 23:02:48 and the large one, becomes swap? 3.7gb of swap? Feb 27 23:04:02 that's your userspace witch is 356mb with fat16, your linux partition will be ,,L for linux83 (,, meaning the rest) Feb 27 23:04:28 sfdisk -uM /dev/mmcblk0 Feb 27 23:04:28 356,6 Feb 27 23:04:29 ,,L Feb 27 23:04:39 RST38h: It started like that, and that's how (I think) Maemo SW still - to an extent - view themselves. But I bet there are more senior managers paying it attention as a "we need something to compete with iPhone/Android/webOS and Symbian isn't cutting the mustard". Internal politics is fun, and I know how big companies work (recommended read: "Big Blue: The Unmaking of IBM" - unfortunately written in the early 90s before IBM's comeback, but still fascinating Feb 27 23:04:39 partition 1 - 356mb.. partition 2 - 6mb partition 3 - rest Feb 27 23:04:47 end of guide you put partition 3 = swap? Feb 27 23:05:01 internal politics between the PC and mainframe guys scuppered everything they were doing, and handed the PC business to Microsoft on a silver platter). Feb 27 23:05:17 partition 1 = 356mb fat partition 2 = the rest is linux83 Feb 27 23:05:33 exactly Feb 27 23:05:45 so rest linux83 = root right? Feb 27 23:05:48 rest would be partition 3? Feb 27 23:05:49 ,, = empty Feb 27 23:05:55 Jaffa: well, product lineup indicates that the big cheeses are all centered on S60e5 Feb 27 23:05:57 mkswap /dev/mmcblk1p3 ? Feb 27 23:06:03 that doesnt make sense then Feb 27 23:06:07 S = swap Feb 27 23:06:10 RST38h: true Feb 27 23:06:23 Jaffa: Interesting that tablets are not even on the list of developer samples leaked a while ago Feb 27 23:06:26 nonono 2 and 3 are wrongly ordered Feb 27 23:06:30 the way i see it Feb 27 23:06:40 how big is your card? Feb 27 23:06:43 4gb Feb 27 23:06:54 SLEEP. Feb 27 23:06:58 how big do you want swap? Feb 27 23:07:03 512 ? Feb 27 23:07:09 RST38h: indeed. Suppose it depends from what level in the org it was leaked (although post-restructure isn't it all a bit less siloed?) Feb 27 23:07:12 k, hold on.. Feb 27 23:07:50 dev/mmcblk0p3 :,, Feb 27 23:08:01 dev/mmcblk0p3 362 3827 3466 3549184 83 Linux Feb 27 23:08:04 according to your guide Feb 27 23:08:11 3466mb for swap? Feb 27 23:08:44 partition 1 = 356,6 partition 2 = 3644,L partition 3 = 512, S Feb 27 23:09:12 3644,L trailing junk after number Feb 27 23:09:43 there we go :) Feb 27 23:09:44 thank you Feb 27 23:09:53 np :) Feb 27 23:10:40 Nokia-N800-43-7:~# umount /dev/mmcblk0p1 Feb 27 23:10:40 umount: cannot umount /media/mmc2: Device or resource busy Feb 27 23:10:42 The comment about Linux being an option on high-end phones was interesting. Feb 27 23:11:13 arent phones always some form of linux? Feb 27 23:11:22 do you have virtual memory ennabled? Feb 27 23:11:24 except pda style ones Feb 27 23:11:26 ohh that might be it Feb 27 23:11:32 :) Feb 27 23:11:42 i restarted hildon desktop im like.. whats taking it Feb 27 23:12:08 :D Feb 27 23:12:30 yes its working :) Feb 27 23:12:43 zakkm, um, no? Feb 27 23:12:47 Is Symbian Linux? Feb 27 23:12:57 isnt it? Feb 27 23:13:01 No. Feb 27 23:13:05 always thought it was Feb 27 23:13:06 hehe Feb 27 23:13:08 Nor is Windows Mobile Feb 27 23:13:12 Nor iPhone OS Feb 27 23:13:15 well i said besides pda style Feb 27 23:13:19 that meant windows mobile ;p Feb 27 23:13:29 Then there's a dozen and one proprietary OSes. Feb 27 23:13:41 Motorola being the only vendor that even dabbles a little bit in Linux there. Feb 27 23:13:42 i meant like old flip phones, $50 w.e Feb 27 23:13:48 Nor ENEA OSE, which can be found on even k750 ;) Feb 27 23:13:55 zakkm, yeah, proprietary stuff. Feb 27 23:13:58 Definitely not Linux. . . . Feb 27 23:14:41 s40 Feb 27 23:15:22 ah mann Feb 27 23:15:32 i made mmcblk0p4 - 3.2gb Feb 27 23:18:36 i've got little problem with zanity Feb 27 23:18:47 DX Feb 27 23:19:42 i want to make a radio list with one column hidden (number to report to script: 1,2,3) and other with descriptions of numbers Feb 27 23:21:28 when i use --column=No true 1 false 2 false 3 it's ok Feb 27 23:22:02 but when i try to add 2nd column it's mixing with prev. one Feb 27 23:22:39 GeneralAntilles: what do you use to read ext3 on mac? Feb 27 23:23:01 The crappy, broken EXT* driver that's floating around out there. Feb 27 23:23:12 I just use SFTP to transfer files. Feb 27 23:23:52 got it! Feb 27 23:26:20 can you transfer files over ssh? Feb 27 23:26:32 That'd be SFTP Feb 27 23:26:49 sftp is for losers. Feb 27 23:26:52 Use scp. Feb 27 23:26:55 how do i set up? Feb 27 23:27:01 simple setup Feb 27 23:27:14 scp is like cp, except you put user@host: in front of your file names. Feb 27 23:27:44 ? Feb 27 23:28:05 lol derf, i think zakkm is more a gui person ;) Feb 27 23:28:16 * benson likes being a loser Feb 27 23:28:24 no lol i just get confused by that Feb 27 23:29:04 benson, why are you a loser? Feb 27 23:29:13 im sorry im not as old as you guys :) Feb 27 23:29:29 I use sftp. Feb 27 23:29:41 zakkm, dont worry i hate the console as well Feb 27 23:29:47 * lcuk uses winftp Feb 27 23:29:51 winscp Feb 27 23:29:52 rather Feb 27 23:29:54 scp has less letters than sftp Feb 27 23:30:06 lcuk: You're a recovering Windows user, you don't count. Feb 27 23:30:15 heck no, im not recovering Feb 27 23:30:21 i fall off the wagon every day Feb 27 23:30:22 sftp has ls, rm, etc. Feb 27 23:30:30 * Jaffa decides that free time is for losers and emails maemo-community. Feb 27 23:30:33 Give it 5 years. Feb 27 23:30:46 yeah ill have liqos to use then :) Feb 27 23:30:50 scp has ssh Feb 27 23:31:10 and autocomletion in bash Feb 27 23:31:15 see Feb 27 23:31:25 if this was bash it would have spelt that right Feb 27 23:31:28 sftp has _heritage_! :p Feb 27 23:31:36 so has windows Feb 27 23:31:42 lol Feb 27 23:31:44 i have mac? Feb 27 23:31:50 cp existed before ftp? Feb 27 23:32:03 theres built in ssh and all Feb 27 23:32:06 zakkm: why are you asking, you don't know? Feb 27 23:32:25 i tend to do ? after a sentence, habit. Feb 27 23:32:31 ah? Feb 27 23:32:34 cp didn't exist over the network, I think... Feb 27 23:32:49 how do i copy something from mac to nokia ;( Feb 27 23:32:59 sd card Feb 27 23:33:00 got scp on mac and nokia :( Feb 27 23:33:05 i cant, mac cant read the ext3 Feb 27 23:33:14 Transmit Feb 27 23:33:15 SFTP Feb 27 23:33:24 nfs Feb 27 23:33:43 smb Feb 27 23:33:52 samba? i dont use windows ;p Feb 27 23:33:54 zakkm, print it out, put it through the fax machine, at the other end place it onto a wooden table, take a photo, scan it into word, export as pdf, upload to some webservice and then browse to it from your nokia Feb 27 23:33:54 Carrier pigeons. Feb 27 23:33:56 simple! Feb 27 23:34:02 format the mac partition & install linux Feb 27 23:34:14 omg ;p Feb 27 23:34:14 lcuk: You forgot "Embed it in a Word file." Feb 27 23:34:25 http://www.panic.com/transmit/ Feb 27 23:34:26 "scan it into word, export as pdf," Feb 27 23:34:29 I had a broken samsung hdd Feb 27 23:34:39 the man from samsung sent me a new firmware Feb 27 23:34:45 Oh, sorry, I must've skipped some in the middle. Feb 27 23:34:52 embedded in a powerpoint file Feb 27 23:34:55 for real Feb 27 23:34:56 you - they are called transmission errors Feb 27 23:35:07 ppt doesnt play too well on tablet Feb 27 23:35:09 zakkm: My folks use ~80% Linux machines on their network, and use smb for all systems. Feb 27 23:35:10 http Feb 27 23:35:11 not without conversion again Feb 27 23:35:22 lbt: It's quite sad how often such things happen. Feb 27 23:35:34 lcuk: you have no idea how *hard* that was to get out!!! Feb 27 23:35:42 screenshot photos in word documents really piss me off! Feb 27 23:35:52 OO doesn't deal well with firmware in presentations Feb 27 23:36:02 :O Feb 27 23:36:07 i missed a line Feb 27 23:36:11 OK, now imagine a world with Microsoft. Feb 27 23:36:14 OO hates me :) Feb 27 23:36:18 s/with/without/ ;) Feb 27 23:36:27 wtf @ firmware in ppt Feb 27 23:36:33 * lcuk shakes head Feb 27 23:36:36 Wasn't taking much imagination for a minute. Feb 27 23:36:48 see - having all these technogical things just makes you use em for stupid crap! Feb 27 23:36:48 samsung engineer.... I have *so* much more confidence in them now... Feb 27 23:37:02 back to basics! Feb 27 23:37:09 GW? Feb 27 23:37:11 GeneralAntilles: So IBM is still the big bad megacorp? Feb 27 23:37:14 could do Feb 27 23:37:24 Or someone different by now? Feb 27 23:37:25 monkey.bas (i seem to recall?) Feb 27 23:37:28 benson: You trying to tell me they're not _now_? Feb 27 23:37:38 benson, it's actually an interesting question. Feb 27 23:37:41 _the_ big bad megacorp Feb 27 23:37:50 Would Linux have developed to where it is today without Microsoft? Feb 27 23:38:04 sure, linus didnt do it to beat windows Feb 27 23:38:15 some of the window managers however might not be where they are Feb 27 23:38:15 No, not Linux. Feb 27 23:38:17 lcuk, Linux didn't happen just by Linus's hand. Feb 27 23:38:19 It's not just Linus. Feb 27 23:38:25 Yeah, Gnome and KDE would be very different. Feb 27 23:38:33 And we'd probably all be ruled by Apple. Feb 27 23:38:35 You can't shuffle history that much and expect the same guy's pet project to take off like that. Feb 27 23:38:41 butterfly effect and all. Feb 27 23:38:42 linux itself is not a competitor for windows Feb 27 23:38:46 Let's assuming I'm not an RMS subscriber and by "Linux" I mean "not just the kernel". ;) Feb 27 23:39:02 Also: I can type. Feb 27 23:39:05 * GeneralAntilles gives up. Feb 27 23:39:21 * lcuk can REALLY see some far flung future where microsoft could have a linux kernel.. ;) Feb 27 23:40:00 I can see some far-flung future where they're bankrupt. Feb 27 23:40:02 In that case, it's an interesting question. Without Linux kernel, either HURD would be completed by now, or one/several BSDs would have taken off big. Feb 27 23:40:16 But w/o MS... who knows? Feb 27 23:40:18 pointless speculation Feb 27 23:40:21 or something new wouldv emerged Feb 27 23:40:30 The BSDs had their shot. Feb 27 23:40:38 They existed long before Linux did. Feb 27 23:40:44 of course its pointless lbt, its friday night, i have beer Feb 27 23:40:46 unless you know who's running the Matrix and where the checkpoints are stored Feb 27 23:41:01 Nokia-N800-43-7:~# mount /dev/mmcblk0p2 /mnt/mer Feb 27 23:41:01 mount: mounting /dev/mmcblk0p2 on /mnt/mer failed Feb 27 23:41:18 is that how they made was that groundhog day Feb 27 23:41:18 derf, sometimes you overlook the things you need Feb 27 23:41:25 Sure, the BSDs existed before people wanted a free UNIX on gazillions of cheap, internet-connected PCs. Feb 27 23:41:33 And it didn't take off... Feb 27 23:41:37 lcuk: Like beer? Feb 27 23:41:46 beer doesn't take off Feb 27 23:41:47 * lcuk doesnt overlook it Feb 27 23:42:16 You could blame them, or you could blame the lack of widespread internet+PCs. Feb 27 23:42:59 The computer industry was much smaller, sure, but you know everyone at universities has had a network for a long time. Feb 27 23:43:31 * GeneralAntilles waves at Jaffa. Feb 27 23:43:34 I'm more inclined to suppose Linux beat them, as conditions for free UNIX proliferation appeared, through luck than any serious improvement. Feb 27 23:43:39 Gonna have to take the weekend to wait and ponder. Feb 27 23:43:39 Tim BL made Linux succesful Feb 27 23:43:49 Without Linus, I think they'd have had a shot. Feb 27 23:44:01 s/us/ux/ Feb 27 23:44:02 benson meant: Without Linux, I think they'd have had a shot. Feb 27 23:44:08 benson, considered running for Council? Feb 27 23:44:09 Well, I won't get into a GPL vs. BSD license debate. Feb 27 23:44:16 aw Feb 27 23:44:18 Because I don't actually know how much that mattered. Feb 27 23:44:19 (Although it follows.) Feb 27 23:44:30 GeneralAntilles: No way, don't have time. Feb 27 23:44:34 But that's also a factor you can't ignore. Feb 27 23:45:07 forcing people to share and making greed harder helped Linux Feb 27 23:45:26 But it didn't help HURD. Feb 27 23:45:46 which counters the university arguement Feb 27 23:46:03 s/uem/um/ Feb 27 23:46:03 was it hurd that was started/in progress when amigas were going strong Feb 27 23:46:03 lbt meant: which counters the university argument Feb 27 23:46:10 omg this is stupid ;p Feb 27 23:46:18 your Mac? Feb 27 23:46:24 My argument was not that innovation comes from universities, but that a large proportion of the industry _did_ have cheap (free to them) net connected PCs. Feb 27 23:46:26 zakkm, what is? Feb 27 23:46:47 indeed - and yet it still didn't happen Feb 27 23:47:10 thats cos universities are lazy places :D Feb 27 23:47:12 What didn't happen? Universities didn't run BSD? Feb 27 23:47:22 you need bored people on friday nights with beer on irc Feb 27 23:47:44 no, the explosion of Linux didn't happen Feb 27 23:47:56 Bored people with Dr. Pepper are good, too. Feb 27 23:48:00 * GeneralAntilles has got the new gadget withdrawal shakes. Feb 27 23:48:07 Dr Pepper has no period. Feb 27 23:48:10 this ubuntu intall Feb 27 23:48:22 Dr Pepper must be a man then Feb 27 23:48:28 * lbt ducks Feb 27 23:48:29 in 2000 when i was last in edu, a linux install was barely more than a console, there was quick simple copyable windows 9x or nt available Feb 27 23:48:34 True, but I would care why? Feb 27 23:48:39 dr pepper runs :) (only drinks drpepper, for pop that is) Feb 27 23:48:43 Abusing trademarks is fun! Feb 27 23:48:47 what do you think ppl used Feb 27 23:48:58 Okay, dinner is over. Enough time wasting. Feb 27 23:49:08 lcuk, fountain pens? Feb 27 23:49:11 lol Feb 27 23:49:21 yep - night all... GeneralAntilles bugzilla? Feb 27 23:49:33 derf :) its fun sometimes, have a good evening Feb 27 23:49:36 lbt, context? Feb 27 23:49:40 and don't hold your breath for 2-column - it's bloody hard! Feb 27 23:49:47 Oh, right. Feb 27 23:49:56 lbt, it's there, isn't it? Feb 27 23:49:59 I created it a few days ago. Feb 27 23:50:23 oh, expected an email or something Feb 27 23:50:27 lbt, the missus took me shopping tonight, its braindraining, no wonder you play with nokia whilst aimlessly wandering around Feb 27 23:50:27 https://bugs.maemo.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=Shopper Feb 27 23:50:33 lbt, nah, not that organized. ;) Feb 27 23:50:46 :D Feb 27 23:50:52 not from you - from it Feb 27 23:50:55 lbt, let me know if you want some more stuff. Feb 27 23:50:57 jake has the right idea: straight for the toys Feb 27 23:51:12 Nokia-N800-43-7:~# mount /dev/mmcblk0p2 /mnt/mer Feb 27 23:51:12 mount: mounting /dev/mmcblk0p2 on /mnt/mer failed Feb 27 23:51:15 why cant i mount it? Feb 27 23:51:20 lbt, you'll get one once somebody files a bug. ;) Feb 27 23:51:25 proper linux ext3 , and /mnt/mer exists Feb 27 23:51:55 mount -t ext3 ... Feb 27 23:51:57 Did you load the modules? Feb 27 23:51:58 woohoo - shopper is perfect Feb 27 23:52:04 Load the kernel modules? Feb 27 23:52:09 oh Feb 27 23:52:12 that could do it Feb 27 23:52:28 lbt, I guess it's time to retire to a nice place in the Caribbean. Feb 27 23:52:49 somewhere more snowy I think... Feb 27 23:52:50 jaffa :) Feb 27 23:52:58 GeneralAntilles: someone had to go first... Feb 27 23:53:18 file exists, when i do insmod? Feb 27 23:53:29 * qwerty12_N800 grins gleefully at the idea of nomination Feb 27 23:53:58 qwerty12_N800's gonna nominate Darius. Feb 27 23:54:01 * Jaffa hopes baloo will stand again Feb 27 23:54:12 zakkm: means the module's loaded. Feb 27 23:54:13 haha Feb 27 23:54:17 * Jaffa gets dneary to hack the electoral db Feb 27 23:54:44 mkdir: cannot create directory '/mnt/jaunty': File exists Feb 27 23:54:44 Nokia-N800-43-7:~# mount /dev/mmcblk0p2 /mnt/jaunty -o noatime Feb 27 23:54:44 mount: mounting /dev/mmcblk0p2 on /mnt/jaunty failed Feb 27 23:55:00 * lbt is really going Feb 27 23:55:05 -t exists for a reason ;) Feb 27 23:55:24 oo just redid mkfs.ext Feb 27 23:55:26 that worked Feb 27 23:55:41 now transfer time :) Feb 27 23:56:23 sweet its sending Feb 27 23:56:45 * b-man is back Feb 27 23:56:56 GeneralAntilles, did you see my post about the puppy, you were around when it first arrived - how was the buzz about it Feb 27 23:57:03 b-man: when i unzipped the .tar .. it ggave me a 480.9mb gzip file Feb 27 23:57:10 lcuk, context? Feb 27 23:57:17 puppy robot Feb 27 23:57:23 * GeneralAntilles missed the post. Feb 27 23:57:25 The Nokia tablet-headed puppy bot? Feb 27 23:57:37 http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27178 Feb 27 23:57:41 yeah Feb 27 23:57:47 lcuk, we had decided that I was going to attend the Summit as one last year. :P Feb 27 23:57:48 I think it's actually got an N810 these days. Feb 27 23:57:59 lol Feb 27 23:58:28 i got talking to someone about robotics earlier Feb 27 23:58:33 hence the post.. Feb 27 23:58:34 zakkm: you might need to unzip that using gzip - allthough it shuld have done that automaticly Feb 27 23:58:46 ohh ill do on tablet then Feb 27 23:58:49 There wasn't really all that much buzz. Feb 27 23:58:58 Just another research project that'd never really see the light of day. Feb 27 23:59:01 that would explain it Feb 27 23:59:04 lol Feb 27 23:59:30 * lcuk is glad some research projects exist outside the lab Feb 27 23:59:34 * qwerty12_N800 remembers that N800 controlled "voip robot" Feb 28 00:00:00 Maybe only N800. Feb 28 00:00:02 b-man: what command should i use to unzip the tar properly? Feb 28 00:00:03 http://www.engadget.com/2007/10/25/nokia-decapitates-tablet-puppy-upgrades-to-n800/ Feb 28 00:00:06 it called you up and made mechanical noises down the line at you? Feb 28 00:00:09 just tar filename.tar ? Feb 28 00:00:34 zakkm: gzip -d? Feb 28 00:00:54 so i do tar __.tar .. then gzip -d on the gzip file? Feb 28 00:01:18 im gonna get me some robot kit Feb 28 00:01:31 zakkm: tar xf filename.tar Feb 28 00:01:51 tar xzf filename.tar.gz Feb 28 00:02:00 (or .tgz, same thing.) Feb 28 00:02:20 right click, goto "send to" then click "compressed folder" Feb 28 00:02:43 * GeneralAntilles files some bugs for lbt. Feb 28 00:03:00 zakkm: tar -zvxf filename.tar.gz gzip -d filename Feb 28 00:03:10 with a pipe Feb 28 00:03:37 tar -zvxf filename.tar.gz | gzip -d filename ;) Feb 28 00:03:51 tar -cp "$FOLDER" | gzip -c > "$FULLNAME" Feb 28 00:04:16 lcuk: is that to me? Feb 28 00:04:22 yes Feb 28 00:04:45 didnt work ;p Feb 28 00:04:53 thats part what my ./kcup.sh does every time i want to .tar.gz my source folder Feb 28 00:05:05 oh your doing it other way ;p Feb 28 00:05:48 that could be simplified, lcuk: tar czf "$FULLNAME" "$FOLDER" Feb 28 00:05:49 tars the folder, pipes the contents into gzip and sends the output to fullname Feb 28 00:06:14 probably can lol, thats the first time ive managed to understand it though! Feb 28 00:06:22 hehe Feb 28 00:06:30 * lcuk saw it as gobbledegoop until this evening Feb 28 00:06:42 lol XD Feb 28 00:07:38 how long should this unzip take you think? Feb 28 00:07:50 5-10 minutes Feb 28 00:07:58 oh not bad Feb 28 00:08:40 is 2gb enough for linux partition ? Feb 28 00:09:17 shure - but 3+ is recommended for gnome ;) Feb 28 00:09:46 well i want to use e17, but i mean would the unzip stop cause its more than 2gb? Feb 28 00:09:56 dont want gnome Feb 28 00:10:26 no Feb 28 00:10:50 it should not stop, unless you run out of space Feb 28 00:11:00 thats what i mean Feb 28 00:11:01 witch is unlikely Feb 28 00:11:03 is 2gb enough space Feb 28 00:11:10 shure Feb 28 00:11:56 aweesome Feb 28 00:12:05 :D Feb 28 00:12:43 hows speed? Feb 28 00:13:40 * Jaffa wants to give sjgadsby double-thanks for http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=267719&postcount=432 Feb 28 00:13:42 it's pritty fast, as long as you have some swap :) Feb 28 00:14:31 * b-man uses gnome and it's verry responssive :) Feb 28 00:14:44 wow its done already Feb 28 00:14:47 okay :) Feb 28 00:15:00 so all the linux folders are in /mnt/jaunty Feb 28 00:15:12 now i do swap and bootmenu? Feb 28 00:15:31 yes Feb 28 00:15:54 mkswap /dev/mmcblk1p3 Feb 28 00:16:00 should be 0p1... Feb 28 00:16:03 ahh Feb 28 00:16:06 0p3 , not 1p3 Feb 28 00:16:15 i think? Feb 28 00:16:20 yup Feb 28 00:17:08 but also, remember to read the release notes for the rootstrap - there are some pritty important stuff you need to do first before booting;) Feb 28 00:17:17 i want to become the first man on earth to get laid Feb 28 00:17:29 lol - too late XD Feb 28 00:17:33 arent you a bit late Feb 28 00:17:36 by holding up a card reading "mnt fsck?" to a girl at a bar Feb 28 00:17:49 lol Feb 28 00:17:58 you would prolly still be late Feb 28 00:18:04 you might be right Feb 28 00:18:09 havent those commands come through from the '60s Feb 28 00:18:14 XD Feb 28 00:18:44 Wow, I think I might've got through to danramos (or, at least got a thanks ;-)) Feb 28 00:18:52 hey, i have installed install-tools.deb to flash my system to internal flash. but i upgraded the system and it wiped the bootloarder, how can i restore it? Feb 28 00:19:42 ouch.. you might need to reflash Feb 28 00:20:04 b-man, reflash the initramfs? or the system? Feb 28 00:20:18 i b-man i can boot to the internal flash Feb 28 00:20:53 system reflash, and yes you can Feb 28 00:22:39 * b-man needs to go now, bye all Feb 28 00:22:52 b-man the system is fine.. i its just i carn't access the cloned system Feb 28 00:23:17 er - anyone else? how can one install the bootloader? Feb 28 00:23:46 sweet Feb 28 00:24:53 b-man: the bootmenu didnt add ubuntu? Feb 28 00:31:14 b-man: i made the ubuntu.item and did refresh_bootmenu.d and went through it went fine but on reboot, theres no ubuntu choice Feb 28 00:33:37 um, what does "no dropbear in rootfs" mean when regarding the ssh keys? Feb 28 00:35:38 car analogy for the n900 >>>> http://www.ejb.com/video/19972/The_stinger.html Feb 28 00:36:56 guysoft42, i think it means it will make new keys everytime you start dropbear from the bootmenu Feb 28 00:37:27 tank-man, its not the end of the world then, i thought it might need every boot Feb 28 00:42:08 Jaffa, I've gotten Thanks! before, too, but it doesn't seem to mean much. Feb 28 00:44:48 "maemo and Freemantle" Feb 28 00:44:51 I mean . . . really. Feb 28 00:44:51 ahh b-man it wont boot Feb 28 00:45:16 pivot root and start /sbin/init.. Feb 28 00:45:19 it stays at Feb 28 00:46:14 * lcuk ponders Feb 28 00:46:24 lcuk: Council declaration? ;-) Feb 28 00:47:01 nahhh jaffa, im tired. mentally drained. Feb 28 00:47:19 * Jaffa is pondering sleep (especially since reading http://blog.wired.com/geekdad/2009/02/10-tricks-to-ge.html) Feb 28 00:48:18 jaffa, damn good ideas! Feb 28 00:48:38 best being the books :) i havent finished the niven book i got a few months back Feb 28 00:49:14 mainly because the part i was upto was extracted from one of his short stories from years ago so ive already read it Feb 28 00:49:39 * lcuk doesnt like rereading most books Feb 28 00:50:34 would anyone know how to fix my "booting ubuntu .. enabling ondemand governor, pushing the bt address, setting time from tu.. pivot root and starting /sbin/init Feb 28 00:50:51 all that happens instantly.. and freezes at the last "pivot root and starting /sbin/init" Feb 28 00:54:21 zakkm, dunno never tried ubuntu on tablet Feb 28 00:55:10 everybody writing Fremantle with 3 e must buy me icecream. Feb 28 00:55:57 lol Feb 28 00:56:03 * lcuk cant wait for the open source freemantle application to come out ;) Feb 28 00:56:20 Similarly, I pondered a "$GOOD_THING" referendum for Council members Feb 28 00:57:08 lcuk! icecream! now! Feb 28 00:57:08 "Bacon/ice-cream/free tablets for life" Feb 28 00:57:20 Reckon we could get that through? Feb 28 00:57:33 Freemantle makes me start thinking of freemasons. Feb 28 00:57:44 andre__, ill try to get you some bacon icecream at the summit Feb 28 00:58:06 * Jaffa saw baconaisse on The Daily Show (and, not forgetting, baconaisse *lite*) Feb 28 00:58:14 Jaffa! Feb 28 00:58:15 haha Feb 28 00:58:16 lcuk, cool. i'm also fine with either cucumber, cheese or fish flavoured icecream Feb 28 00:58:19 It all becomes clear now. . . . Feb 28 00:58:22 Oh shit. I've just opened wikipedia. Feb 28 00:58:42 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freemasons looks interesting Feb 28 00:58:45 jaffa :) did you see xkcd - its a very interesting kindle fact Feb 28 00:59:00 * GeneralAntilles sees through Nokia's Freemason plotting. Feb 28 00:59:03 http://xkcd.com/548/ Feb 28 00:59:13 lcuk: yup :) Feb 28 00:59:30 is the os on kindle hackable? Feb 28 00:59:31 Something makes me think this doesn't belong on Planet http://www.libertatia.org/blog/?p=94 Feb 28 00:59:47 lcuk, anything's hackable. Feb 28 01:00:20 excellent Feb 28 01:00:35 lcuk: it may not be feasible before the heat death of the universe, howeve.r Feb 28 01:00:42 It's really only a function of time. Feb 28 01:00:46 http://igorsk.blogspot.com/2007/12/hacking-kindle-part-3-root-shell-and.html Feb 28 01:00:55 Additional resources can assist with the time factor, though. Feb 28 01:00:58 hmm. spanish. another interesting language. i should drink a few beer so i can understand it Feb 28 01:01:21 lcuk: cool Feb 28 01:01:40 makes liqbase a bit more interesting jaffa - at its core its a greyscale engine Feb 28 01:01:40 lcuk, if you think the tablet's refresh rate is a problem, I don't think you're gonna enjoy eink very much. Feb 28 01:01:52 i dont thought gen Feb 28 01:01:59 i see eink as quite reasonable Feb 28 01:02:08 i was never against greyscale Feb 28 01:02:21 ITEM_DEVICE="${INT_CARD}p2" Feb 28 01:02:25 that would be mmcblk0p2 right? Feb 28 01:02:38 lcuk, have you actually used one? Feb 28 01:02:48 "OK, let's watch the screen redraw." Feb 28 01:02:53 no, refresh is about 2fps Feb 28 01:03:02 i know how bad it is Feb 28 01:03:33 and besides gan, its not touchscreen, so i dont have to try to make it kinetic Feb 28 01:03:47 Do you really know how bad it is? Feb 28 01:03:51 Because, really, it's bad. Feb 28 01:05:48 fck Feb 28 01:07:42 planet.maemo caught a completely unrelated post from my blog :( Feb 28 01:08:04 * GeneralAntilles thumbs gleefully for karma. :P Feb 28 01:08:37 even I'd like to give me a thumbs down for that post being there Feb 28 01:08:44 problem is, not my fault hehehe Feb 28 01:09:06 lfelipe: by rating it you'll get karma, and your overall karma won't suffer for the -ves ;-) Feb 28 01:09:13 Thumb it, then get it out of your feed ;-) Feb 28 01:10:04 fck Feb 28 01:10:07 it kinda is my fault Feb 28 01:10:08 :( Feb 28 01:10:30 well, it seems the rss feed got screwed by the wordpress update Feb 28 01:10:38 I still say we blame X-Fade. :P Feb 28 01:11:35 Right. Bed time. Feb 28 01:11:35 Anybody else tired of seeing fat stomachs on itT? Feb 28 01:11:47 Later, Jaffa. Feb 28 01:13:00 the rss url got changed, I can certainly blame X-Fade for that :P Feb 28 01:18:31 lfelipe, i already gave you all "thumbs down" i had on planet maemo. you're welcome :-P Feb 28 01:21:55 heheh, thank god it wasn't any kind of porn or anything :P Feb 28 01:23:12 Hehe, that'd probably have netted you karma. ;) Feb 28 01:24:44 wow is that vmware thing real? Feb 28 01:25:08 mmmmmm close enough http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beaconsfield,_Western_Australia Feb 28 01:25:12 theres bacon in fremantle Feb 28 01:27:56 omg ubuntu boots but at end of bootsplash, it "freezes" Feb 28 01:28:13 end of progress bar Feb 28 01:43:11 lcuk, you could organize a bacon deathmatch for maemo summit Feb 28 01:44:50 heh Feb 28 01:45:09 for a bootmenu.d item ... mmcblk1p2 ... refers to internal or external ( n800 ) Feb 28 01:45:12 im turnin in for the night anyway, gnite folks Feb 28 01:45:36 night lcuk Feb 28 01:57:58 * benson better practice his uberleet Bacon Fraggin' Gun skillz. Feb 28 01:59:44 benson; did you try ubuntu jaunty? Feb 28 02:00:21 No Feb 28 02:00:50 :( cant get it to boot fully Feb 28 02:01:08 did you use socks? Feb 28 02:01:15 sorry, that wasnt helpful. Feb 28 02:01:41 socks? **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Feb 28 02:59:58 2009