**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Mar 15 02:59:57 2009 Mar 15 03:00:09 What irc client do you guys use on your tablet? Mar 15 03:00:27 XChat Mar 15 03:08:11 ~ping Mar 15 03:08:12 ~pong Mar 15 03:17:39 this is a very nice read... http://andrew.daviel.org/N810-FAQ.html Mar 15 03:26:40 sisto, wiki.maemo.org is generally more up-to-date and accurate. Mar 15 03:28:44 how do you do the pipe command? Mar 15 03:28:48 i mean the character Mar 15 03:28:57 *type it Mar 15 03:29:30 | Mar 15 03:29:39 copy paste this Mar 15 03:30:34 so I have to copy it from somewhere else? Mar 15 03:30:57 I'm not chatting from the tablet right now, but I will do that if it's the standard procedure Mar 15 03:31:15 I mean I'll just go ahead and do it Mar 15 03:31:22 thanks Mar 15 03:32:26 i use the way that changes the keyboard layout Mar 15 03:33:04 search maemo faq or n810 faq Mar 15 03:33:16 I was able to do it with the handwriting recongnizer Mar 15 03:33:17 as i remember Mar 15 03:33:38 put it in symbols mode Mar 15 03:33:42 and type a vertical line Mar 15 04:00:22 sisto Mar 15 04:00:31 bef0rd: Mar 15 04:00:46 sup Mar 15 04:00:48 sisto, n810 or n800? Mar 15 04:00:52 n810 Mar 15 04:01:02 there is a key called Chr Mar 15 04:01:17 press that one, and I believe the pipe is on the 3rd row, use the arrows on the side Mar 15 04:01:31 yes thank you :) Mar 15 04:01:45 yet another (easier) way :) Mar 15 04:02:09 de nada Mar 15 04:02:58 Aunque creo que la que esta en tercera fila es la eñe, y el pipe esta en la segunda, no tengo el n810 a la mano :P Mar 15 04:05:03 ya lo encontre Mar 15 04:06:10 bef0rd: de donde eres? Mar 15 04:07:17 Colombia Mar 15 04:07:24 does open-ssh server use too much battery? Mar 15 04:07:28 bef0rd: yo de Uruguay Mar 15 04:08:22 I mean will the battery drain a lot faster with it? Mar 15 04:08:31 I noticed it on the hostname, that's why I started speaking spanish :P Mar 15 04:09:44 jeje :) Mar 15 04:10:20 sin embargo el tuyo solo muestra la ip Mar 15 04:20:34 If you're using the terminal in N800/N810, you can also do this: menu -> Tools -> settings -> Toolbar Shortcut -> New -> Title: | Value: bar Mar 15 04:20:59 And you'll get the | on the row of Esc, PgUP, PgDn and so on Mar 15 04:23:55 ShadowJK: yay thanks Mar 15 06:00:40 I'm trying to build a maemo package for the first time. In particular I want to build a newer package version of pidgin Mar 15 06:01:05 aww Mar 15 06:01:10 the pidgin packager is alive Mar 15 06:01:16 I've installed scratchbox, the sdk, and I'm inside. I have adjusted the changelog file, and I'm running dpkg-buildpackage Mar 15 06:01:19 albeit quite distracted Mar 15 06:01:55 my problem is, I get a few unmet build deps, and I don't know where to get them from, apt-get install reports "not found" Mar 15 06:02:01 dpkg-checkbuilddeps: Unmet build dependencies: libavahi-core-dev libavahi-glib-dev libavahi-client-dev libmeanwhile-dev Mar 15 06:02:24 try apt-get builddep Mar 15 06:03:17 that requires a source package, I don't have one Mar 15 06:03:34 I have an exploded updated source tree Mar 15 06:03:44 based on the source archive from the relased older version Mar 15 06:03:49 apt-get libavahi-core-dev libavahi-glib-dev libavahi-client-dev libmeanwhile-dev Mar 15 06:03:55 er +install ;-) Mar 15 06:04:16 that's what I tried, and it fails Mar 15 06:04:21 E: Couldn't find package libavahi-core-dev Mar 15 06:04:30 for any of the packages Mar 15 06:04:36 yum :) Mar 15 06:04:53 I was able to other stuff installed, e.g. sharutils Mar 15 06:05:15 it looks like it still exists somewhere Mar 15 06:05:20 which repos do you have enabled? Mar 15 06:05:39 I have not idea. I was following the install instructions, didn't do anything else Mar 15 06:05:52 scratchbox+sdk Mar 15 06:06:03 try adding extras and extras-devel Mar 15 06:06:10 howto doc? Mar 15 06:06:28 oh, you're in scratchbox... well Mar 15 06:06:36 you probably have application manager Mar 15 06:06:37 I should be in scratchbox, right? Mar 15 06:06:49 so you should be able to enable extras from tehre Mar 15 06:06:52 I don't have the X stuff installed yet, xephyr something Mar 15 06:06:55 I don't know how Mar 15 06:06:57 oh Mar 15 06:06:59 ok, fine Mar 15 06:07:09 cd /etc/apt/sources.list.d/ Mar 15 06:07:23 cat > maemo-extras.list Mar 15 06:07:37 ok Mar 15 06:08:52 deb http://repository.maemo.org/extras/ diablo free Mar 15 06:09:08 eb-src http://repository.maemo.org/extras/ diablo free Mar 15 06:09:15 deb-src http://repository.maemo.org/extras/ diablo free Mar 15 06:09:18 ^D Mar 15 06:09:30 kill the middle line, my keyboard isn't happy :( Mar 15 06:09:59 perl -pne 's/extras/extras-devel/' maemo-extras.list > maemo-extras-devel.list Mar 15 06:10:18 apt-get update Mar 15 06:10:48 thanks! Mar 15 06:10:49 works Mar 15 06:11:19 building pidgin Mar 15 06:12:05 ok, looks like building a pidgin package is quite some work :-) Mar 15 06:12:10 pidgin/pixmaps/Makefile.am:4: required directory pidgin/pixmaps/emotes/small/16 does not exist Mar 15 06:12:20 I thought I would simply run a build command and everything works ;-) Mar 15 06:12:27 * timeless rotfl Mar 15 06:13:28 FYI I have a merged tarball at https://garage.maemo.org/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=3586&group_id=278&atid=1106 Mar 15 06:13:40 maybe that can save the pidgin maintainer some work Mar 15 06:17:56 hello, all Mar 15 06:18:53 I've found my next handheld device: http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.14687 Mar 15 06:19:05 a pocket calculator that looks and smells like a chocolate bar :D Mar 15 06:19:15 how can the RX-51 beat that? Mar 15 06:19:46 well, given what i've seen of the calculator... Mar 15 06:19:58 that bad, is it? Mar 15 06:20:23 well, i've used the one for the 770 Mar 15 06:20:32 which is inferior to the one ms shipped w/ win3.0 Mar 15 06:22:22 is that why those people were running Win 3.1 on Dosbox on the N8x0? :D Mar 15 06:22:37 better software? :) Mar 15 06:22:41 a working solitaire Mar 15 06:22:44 a working notepad Mar 15 06:22:50 a working write Mar 15 06:22:59 a working minesweeper Mar 15 06:23:12 a working file manager Mar 15 06:23:14 yep Mar 15 06:23:20 and a working tablet, for all of the 5 minutes until the battery runs out Mar 15 06:23:30 * jaem watches the CPU meter go *ping* Mar 15 06:24:14 minesweeper works on my tablet :) Mar 15 06:24:46 shadowjk: the last minesweeper for the tablet that i tried totally botched the rules and setup and density and dimensions and start Mar 15 06:24:56 not to mention usability Mar 15 06:25:08 as long as the mines go BOOM, it's fine Mar 15 06:25:20 and the smiley face has to die Mar 15 06:25:21 they aren't supposed to go boom on first tap... Mar 15 06:25:25 for some reason Mar 15 06:25:47 they go boom on first click in the non-tablet version :D Mar 15 06:26:11 shadowjk: not the windows version Mar 15 06:26:18 which is the reference impl Mar 15 06:26:19 gah Mar 15 06:26:35 if people are going to knock off software, one would think they'd do a decent job and take notes... Mar 15 06:26:37 What happens there, does it ask if you're sure you want to click there? :-) Mar 15 06:26:43 no Mar 15 06:26:51 it doesn't generate the map until after first click Mar 15 06:27:00 ? Mar 15 06:27:08 oh Mar 15 06:27:10 ShadowJK: yes, Minesweeper would be greatly improved with a good application of UAC :D Mar 15 06:27:11 If you only click once at the start, you're doing it wrong. Mar 15 06:27:12 it doesn't know where the bombs are until your first tap Mar 15 06:27:33 but when it does generate the map, it makes sure there isn't a bomb in that spot Mar 15 06:27:45 You'll never set speed records that way. Mar 15 06:28:17 Maybe they ripped off the Microsoft minesweeper version for Siemens M35 Mar 15 06:29:49 did that version really get this wrong? Mar 15 06:30:57 I wouldn't have noticed :) Mar 15 06:31:07 though I probably played it more than the one in windows Mar 15 06:41:57 am I justified in naming a saying after myself if Google can't find any reference of anyone else saying it? :P Mar 15 06:42:16 http://ffejery.wordpress.com/2009/03/15/quick-thought-o-the-day-not-updated-daily/ Mar 15 07:27:11 *giggle* http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=b4f_1236933154 Mar 15 07:27:15 * lcuk goes back to bed Mar 15 07:34:24 GeneralAntilles: pong Mar 15 07:40:06 plank Mar 15 07:40:37 mornin' StsN800 Mar 15 07:41:08 morning qwerty12_N800 Mar 15 08:10:22 morning Mar 15 08:11:19 any suggestions? https://garage.maemo.org/builder/diablo/db4.6_4.6.21-10maemo0/ Mar 15 08:17:46 hi Mar 15 08:18:02 i have missed all items in menu Mar 15 08:18:04 WTF? Mar 15 08:18:35 anybody know how hildon menu works? :] Mar 15 08:20:02 wt*? there are no items in the menu? Mar 15 08:20:05 cp /etc/xdg/menus/applications.menu /home/user/.osso/menus/ ; update-desktop-database Mar 15 08:20:12 hello Mar 15 08:20:14 hi Mar 15 08:20:24 where could I find the gpsctrl.h header file and assiciated libs Mar 15 08:20:26 ? Mar 15 08:20:57 anything newer than SRC_URI = "http://repository.maemo.org/pool/bora/free/source/${PN}_${PV}-18.tar.gz" ? Mar 15 08:21:08 (for libgpsbt which is/was suppsed to have that file) Mar 15 08:21:41 heh. free size = 0b Mar 15 08:21:46 qwerty12: thanks Mar 15 08:23:27 heh, i thought us tablet users had a issue carrying gear, but then i bumped into another forum... Mar 15 08:23:44 does someone want to swap his/her N810 with my N800? Mar 15 08:23:48 :P Mar 15 08:23:59 yeah thopiekar Mar 15 08:24:23 you? Mar 15 08:24:24 the screen on my 810 is a bit duff, but i think thats a fair deal cos the hardware keyboard on your 800 is missing a few keys Mar 15 08:25:39 hmm Mar 15 08:25:42 udovdh: why do you need that specific file Mar 15 08:26:15 to compile gypsy with the patch from http://bugzilla.o-hand.com/show_bug.cgi?id=729 Mar 15 08:26:19 to make it work on n810 Mar 15 08:26:33 it is supposed to be in libgpsbt Mar 15 08:26:45 but the source to libgpsbt that i have doesn't have that header Mar 15 08:26:56 also the info on the web about libgpsbt doesn't mention these functions Mar 15 08:27:01 so... Mar 15 08:27:08 how do I just enable the gps on n810? Mar 15 08:27:17 with that header file Mar 15 08:27:23 or with any other means Mar 15 08:27:31 I used the hole time screen protectors and I bought a leather case for I too... Mar 15 08:27:42 so not necessarily using libgpsbt/libgpsmgr etc Mar 15 08:28:04 Isn't there a better offer from you? Mar 15 08:28:37 thopiekar: i have no need for an 800 :$ Mar 15 08:29:44 :P the cause why i want a n800 is that some apps are disigned to use the kexboard.. Mar 15 08:30:02 but the N800 haven'T a hardware-keyboard.. Mar 15 08:31:57 anybody know about the gps thing I mentioned? Mar 15 08:33:15 http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/maemo/users/35082 mentions liblocation Mar 15 08:35:01 hah, my SE phone allows me to connect through it to internet, usb and bluetooth tethering simultaneous Mar 15 08:37:49 udovdh: no, but what functionality does it provide - ie what breaks if you just remove the header #include line from the source Mar 15 08:38:25 lol StsN800 what can you do with all those things at once though Mar 15 08:38:35 surely its not 3x faster :D Mar 15 08:39:32 lcukx41, then we cannot enable the gps since that header defines the function that does that Mar 15 08:39:52 so how do other programs turn on the gps.. Mar 15 08:39:58 gpsctrl_set_chip_off (); Mar 15 08:39:59 etc Mar 15 08:40:03 via gpsd? Mar 15 08:40:06 Get an scratchbox. Mar 15 08:40:06 libgpsbt? Mar 15 08:40:15 you tell me, you are the gps developer Mar 15 08:41:02 if its vital post a comment on the place you found the patch and tell whoever it was the patch is incomplete Mar 15 08:41:48 if a patch adds new dependencies it should also patch the makefile and debian contents etc Mar 15 08:41:52 lcukx41, yes, but I do not know if the header file is present in the 'normal' development environment of scratchbox versus my OE setup Mar 15 08:42:16 the web documentation for libgpsbt doesn't mention these functions gpsctrl_set_chip_off and gpsctrl_set_chip_on Mar 15 08:42:20 ?i thought this was a maemo problem? using the maemo sdk does this work? Mar 15 08:42:54 can you confirm lcukx41 Mar 15 08:43:07 that there is a gpsctrl.h in your sdk setup? Mar 15 08:43:16 confirm what? i have no desire or need to setup an sdk just to tell you it works in maemo Mar 15 08:43:23 and can you tell me what library has the functions for the header file Mar 15 08:43:26 what sdk setup? Mar 15 08:43:29 that is my idea lcuk Mar 15 08:43:32 lcukx41, Mar 15 08:43:44 so far I succeeded in building navit for n810 using OE Mar 15 08:43:56 great! Mar 15 08:43:59 and adding gypsy would appear as a relatively minor addition Mar 15 08:44:10 but the gps thingie is a problem Mar 15 08:44:19 udovdh, yes, there is. Now use scratchbox instead of OE ;) Mar 15 08:44:29 http://wiki.navit-project.org/index.php/Navit_on_OpenEmbedded_for_n810 Mar 15 08:44:33 lcukx41, i can have my laptop online and charging phone and having tablet online too Mar 15 08:44:44 nice Mar 15 08:44:45 so qwerty12 that header file is in scratchbox? Mar 15 08:45:02 udovdh, or, strip the crap from http://repository.maemo.org/stable/diablo/maemo-sdk-nokia-binaries_4.1.2.sh and extract it (I assume that you don't mind agreeing to the EULA) Mar 15 08:45:04 udovdh, yes Mar 15 08:45:27 thanks qwerty12 Mar 15 08:46:46 that's at least part of the problem I guess Mar 15 08:57:58 can i install linux on an oqo? Mar 15 09:00:13 anybody know deb-src for libhildon ? Mar 15 09:00:45 vasily_pupkin: where is libhildon located? Mar 15 09:00:56 and which os are you using? Mar 15 09:01:01 diablo Mar 15 09:01:08 on your pc? Mar 15 09:01:56 on my pc - scratchbox1 with maemo SDK :) Mar 15 09:02:07 on gentoo Mar 15 09:03:55 StsN800: mer on oqo??, im looking at one now within acceptable price Mar 15 09:04:18 libhildon1 - Hildon libraries Mar 15 09:04:18 > is on one of the all repos of maemo... Mar 15 09:04:29 em Mar 15 09:04:29 don't know in which but there is.. Mar 15 09:04:32 :P Mar 15 09:04:39 i want to do: apt-get source libhildon1 Mar 15 09:04:42 :) Mar 15 09:05:46 mom Mar 15 09:06:26 http://pastebin.com/pastebin.php Mar 15 09:06:55 -.- Mar 15 09:06:56 mom Mar 15 09:09:29 Errors Mar 15 09:09:29 Mar 15 09:09:29 * Sorry, your post tripped our spam filter - let us know if you think this could be improved Mar 15 09:09:32 ._. Mar 15 09:11:10 ftp://thopiekar.homelinux.com/maemoSDK/sources.list Mar 15 09:11:20 vasily_pupkin: thats my sources.list-file.. Mar 15 09:12:28 just replace it with yours.. Mar 15 09:13:48 * thopiekar is now away.. Mar 15 09:15:32 * lcukx41 bangs head on brick wall Mar 15 09:22:59 thopiekar: thnx Mar 15 09:28:33 * lcukx41 investigates performance of oqo Mar 15 09:33:14 * lcukx41 gets sidetracked with lesbian vampire killers Mar 15 10:04:09 lcuk, seems feasible Mar 15 10:05:07 yeah the extra horsepower should also allow extra niceness with liqbase :) Mar 15 10:07:10 *giggle* http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=b4f_1236933154 Mar 15 10:07:25 that was meant to be posted ages ago :$ Mar 15 10:12:52 vasily_pupkin: does it work? Mar 15 10:12:56 * thopiekar is back... Mar 15 10:32:57 thopiekar: yes, i have successfully recompile gtk/pango etc. but seems like themes now broken :) Mar 15 10:33:40 :P Mar 15 10:46:40 could anyone direct me towards more information on mer development? Mar 15 10:47:26 ~mer Mar 15 10:47:27 mer is, like, http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer Mar 15 10:47:42 i meant irc channel if there is one Mar 15 10:47:58 Oh, sure, #mer Mar 15 10:48:05 ok thanks Mar 15 10:49:06 Sergei: or you can just talk in here, its all kinda blended at htis point Mar 15 10:49:27 mer money, mer problems. Mar 15 10:50:30 lol Mar 15 10:50:35 hiya roope Mar 15 10:52:08 hello. Mar 15 10:52:32 roope, i found out how to see maemo5 at normal speeds! Mar 15 10:52:55 Oh. ... Is it fast or slow then? :) Mar 15 10:53:15 well i have seen it running at clickable speeds! Mar 15 10:53:37 it took a vnc connection from qwertys home computer to my laptop though... Mar 15 10:57:06 sounds... complicatd. Mar 15 10:58:29 lol yeah, much prefer simplicity Mar 15 11:12:34 lbt, did you see my post last night Mar 15 11:12:40 (mornin btw) Mar 15 11:22:59 jesus christ, qt is still building Mar 15 11:23:52 lol Mar 15 11:24:11 did you just travel up and down your country in the time its taken Mar 15 11:24:59 i'm not back yet Mar 15 11:27:25 qt isnt compiled either :p Mar 15 11:28:59 morning lcuk - I did - but only after you'd gone :) Oh, and for ref, I usually wander in here, power on and then go make coffee whilst it restores - so when it reconnects to irc I'm not usually present... Mar 15 11:29:16 Stskeeps: yes I just looked Mar 15 11:29:29 thats ok, when im chattin im normally multitasking so dont sit aorund waiting for answers :P Mar 15 11:29:32 I think it may be time to look at a cross-compiler Mar 15 11:30:17 I want to see lcuk get into it and try and compile it on his tablet Mar 15 11:31:07 lbt: i would personally go for a DISTCC cross-compiler, or figure out how to make one matching ubuntu jaunty's, so we can do it in scratchbox Mar 15 11:31:12 it's trivial to bring in a toolchain Mar 15 11:32:32 yeah - I'm not sure where exactly you are on the build env setup with sbox etc... Mar 15 11:32:48 it's fairly sane. 1) need debhelper upgrade 2) matching toolchain Mar 15 11:33:27 bringing in ubuntu's gcc sounds like the portable option doesn't it? Mar 15 11:33:29 lol lbt, i would compile core qt if i could strip out all the crap, 99.9% of it is waste Mar 15 11:33:42 * lcukx41 wants a frame and a label and a picturebox and thats it Mar 15 11:34:02 lcukx41: you can - it's modular and configure lets you do that Mar 15 11:34:25 then why in gods name does it take a fortnight to compile Mar 15 11:34:32 webkit Mar 15 11:34:40 then strip it Mar 15 11:34:43 do you need it for shopper? Mar 15 11:34:56 no, we need it for Mer Mar 15 11:35:02 Mer is 'full' Mar 15 11:35:06 lbt: gcc + glibc i guess Mar 15 11:35:51 actually lbt, i think shopper itself does need it - how else would you parse your css stuff Mar 15 11:35:52 Stskeeps: honestly I think the best approach is to replicate the entire build env here and then beat at it Mar 15 11:36:10 core Qt has css for widget styling Mar 15 11:36:25 it's using css as a namespace selector mechanism Mar 15 11:36:36 not as an html render Mar 15 11:36:56 so it sets c++ object parameters via css Mar 15 11:37:03 like a config language Mar 15 11:38:10 Stskeeps: does that sound sane? at the moment it's a bit fuzzy in my head as to what does what and so it's hard to help fix it. Mar 15 11:38:44 * johnx pops by Mar 15 11:39:18 * lcukx41 tried searching for minimal qt stuff a while aog, ill dig some more later Mar 15 11:39:24 hey johnx Mar 15 11:40:16 lbt: sane thing is simply to make a cross-compilation version of ubuntu's gcc i guess Mar 15 11:40:39 hi Mar 15 11:40:40 shame I'm on Debian - still, I have virtualbox... Mar 15 11:40:50 can anyone tell me what app this is? Mar 15 11:40:57 http://www.engadget.com/2009/03/15/ubuntu-9-04-ported-to-nokias-n8x0-internet-tablets Mar 15 11:41:03 the system information application Mar 15 11:41:30 lcukx41: join the maemo-qt mail list and ask gnuton Mar 15 11:41:34 grr @ ubuntu getting too much attention Mar 15 11:42:16 also what is the latest version of maemo 4.1? Mar 15 11:42:49 2008.36.5? Mar 15 11:42:49 4.1.2 Mar 15 11:42:56 43-7 IIRC Mar 15 11:43:02 hmm Mar 15 11:43:10 the 43 is right at least :) Mar 15 11:43:17 hmm Mar 15 11:43:25 how come I am not getting an OTA update for it? Mar 15 11:43:34 lbt, im not thinking just maemo, if i can cull most of the crap and get back to the baseline i might understand the whole better Mar 15 11:43:35 Stskeeps, yeah, just saw that :/ Thankfully I think most people know that they don't really want a mouse driven UI on a touchable device... Mar 15 11:44:16 johnx: arent you the debian port guy Mar 15 11:44:17 =p Mar 15 11:44:35 people want shiny and pretty Mar 15 11:44:39 EruditeHermit, I *was* :) Mar 15 11:44:46 what happened? Mar 15 11:44:49 and those pics certainly look the part Mar 15 11:44:54 lcukx41++ Mar 15 11:44:57 lcukx41: nah - I know almost nothing about any Qt beyond core. They're bright chaps - don't assume it is done badly Mar 15 11:45:04 johnx: http://trac.tspre.org:8000/ btw, much saner than jaiku :P Mar 15 11:45:45 lbt, not assuming anything is done badly - its a whole tower though and it starts from the seed in the middle - understand that one crystal and the rest of the geode will make sense Mar 15 11:46:02 EruditeHermit, I realized that it kind of sucks to be using a UI intended for a mouse with a stylus/thumb :) Mar 15 11:46:17 lol Mar 15 11:46:26 johnx: we should really work towards wrapping the ubuntu project into mer / solving the issues that keeps gnome from being included :P Mar 15 11:46:32 indeed - http://doc.trolltech.com/4.4/overviews.html Mar 15 11:47:00 so how come my OTA never updated to 2008.43? Mar 15 11:47:11 was it an OTA update or a flash update? Mar 15 11:47:28 lcuk ... and http://doc.trolltech.com/4.4/mainclasses.html Mar 15 11:48:17 Woo.. think my image viewer is now touchscreen enabled.. still have to wait for my N810 to arrive, though. :-( Mar 15 11:48:42 EruditeHermit: I had that problem - somehow I think the updater was removed... Mar 15 11:48:55 lbt: did i get you on jaiku btw? Mar 15 11:49:13 I think there was a problem.. so I'm not Mar 15 11:49:20 do I need an invite or something Mar 15 11:49:30 Are there any Maemo wiki apps? I was thinking of an app that synchronises with a website where most of the editing is really done. Mar 15 11:49:49 lbt: yeah, you added yourself to Mer/People so i just need your email in a /msg quickly :P Mar 15 11:50:46 EruditeHermit: https://wiki.maemo.org/Seamless_Software_Update Mar 15 11:51:24 IIRC (and I may not) this fixed it for me: apt-get install osso-software-version-rx34-unlocked Mar 15 11:51:28 Btw - I assume that the only requirement for touchscreen usage is to respond to clicks / button down events (Gtk speak), and not rely on focus or mouse enter/exit events. Mar 15 11:51:50 Or that could have been rotate... hmm Mar 15 11:52:19 rmt_: mouse focus and enter exit occurs Mar 15 11:52:32 and keyboard tabbing works in gtk Mar 15 11:52:56 have you never used a wacom tablet on any os before? Mar 15 11:53:40 the only difference the OS sees between mouse input and stylus is that with a stylus there is no MouseMove with no buttons pressed. everything else is identcal Mar 15 11:56:29 the problem is at a different level, a mouse ui has different expectations of lazyness and using a stylus for jobs we use a mouse for is wrong - case in point, with a mouse, you normally have a scrollwheel Mar 15 11:56:43 place the mouse cursor "somewhere" in the middle of a list and scroll, it works nicely Mar 15 11:56:58 #with a stylus you need to aim for that little teeny tiny scrollbar Mar 15 11:57:27 completely offtopic: effing youtube have blocked sound to jacobs favorite youtube video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KC9FtLQJoGM Mar 15 11:57:28 sony's jog wheel takes care of that Mar 15 11:57:42 yes possibly Mar 15 11:57:51 i miss that feature Mar 15 11:58:11 but thats one of the problems with it - i get round it with a kinetic simple scroll which works Mar 15 11:58:21 Sometimes I wish stylus on tablet would work like the touchpad on a laptop... like in the vncviewer or with programs not designed for tablet/touchscreen Mar 15 11:58:58 using a bad widgetset which doesnt respond to your touch properly is just a waste of a touchdevice Mar 15 11:59:21 * rmt_ reads and nods. Mar 15 11:59:24 ShadowJK: how do you mean? Mar 15 11:59:54 thanks lbt Mar 15 12:00:03 lcukx41: you should figure out how to dl them :P Mar 15 12:00:09 johnx: so what do you work on now =p Mar 15 12:00:12 dl what? Mar 15 12:00:27 lcukx41: youtube vids Mar 15 12:00:28 EruditeHermit, recently: mer. right now: moving :) Mar 15 12:00:33 in the future: mer Mar 15 12:00:37 i like what lbt has done to qt - it would help if those core lists there could be adapted to have the scrollability Mar 15 12:00:55 No click events unless you double tab in the same (rough) place. It seems now if I put stylus on screen and move it, it generates click-hold move type thing.. Mar 15 12:01:02 but i fear subclasses expect certain events to be cleanly done and would break if you started eating events for scrolling Mar 15 12:01:17 lcukx41: Qt4.5 probably has it Mar 15 12:01:30 and it is cleanly done Mar 15 12:01:36 Stskeeps: its not the download lol, its the bastard silencing of them, ive got the lp and a vhs somewhere of it Mar 15 12:01:39 So a touchpad-like behaviour would let you do mouseover in programs that are tablet/touch-unaware Mar 15 12:01:56 lbt, it will have to come from the core (motivation..) and everything built ontop wont handle them simply Mar 15 12:02:24 ShadowJK: but those same touch unaware apps DO respond to mouse actions - by clicking items etc Mar 15 12:02:32 Yes Mar 15 12:02:35 hildonisation could include it Mar 15 12:03:01 but then the apps wont be generically crossplatform Mar 15 12:03:40 they should be Mar 15 12:03:51 not if they need specific hildonization Mar 15 12:03:58 lbt: i wonder how they detect if it should hildonize or not.. like, run-time wise Mar 15 12:04:06 they don't AFAIK Mar 15 12:04:16 it would be more powerful if it did it :P Mar 15 12:04:17 It works mostly fine if the app doesn't mind that you move the pointer around with mouse button pressed Mar 15 12:04:18 at the moment it's configure option Mar 15 12:04:20 it would Mar 15 12:04:55 so when an app expects mouse click and you eat it and the app breaks because they dont get a click (because it was detected as a scroll action) Mar 15 12:05:03 OTOH if a device has the library loaded then it isn't going to flick between needing hildon and not Mar 15 12:05:05 or that app does it itself because of limitations Mar 15 12:05:30 lcuk it doesn't work quite like that Mar 15 12:05:39 ie you have modified the default yourself - the chances are many apps built up from those core things have made their own fixes Mar 15 12:05:45 I'm actually careful to store and replay events Mar 15 12:05:49 its like y2k all over again but regarding input Mar 15 12:05:56 if I taste them Mar 15 12:06:04 and then decide they aren't scrolls Mar 15 12:06:22 OTOH if I decide it is a scroll then it isn't a click Mar 15 12:06:22 you have just made the app slower by waiting to decide what to do Mar 15 12:06:29 then playing those back at a later time Mar 15 12:06:52 its a complex problem, ive thought about it from a number of contexts in the past Mar 15 12:06:54 I'm surprised actually that the vnc viewer in maemo isn't doing touchpad emulation for the virtual mouse... don't tell me synaptic has a patent on it? :-) Mar 15 12:07:00 well, invent a touch screen with the exact same semantics as a 3-button mouse with a scroll wheel then Mar 15 12:07:34 Or try and use a 3-button app on a Mac Mar 15 12:07:48 mighty mouse has 3 buttons doesnt it Mar 15 12:08:01 it was bad enough when we had 3-button-emulation in XFree Mar 15 12:08:19 it gets even worse when you consider multitouch Mar 15 12:08:24 yes indeed Mar 15 12:08:36 now, many things in Qt are not about 'clicks' Mar 15 12:08:42 Like bluemaemo does, except showing the vnc window/app window instead of the fancy theme Mar 15 12:08:42 they are about 'activate' Mar 15 12:09:06 and the mapping of the interface to the trigger is hildonisation Mar 15 12:09:15 multitouch, that gives me the idea to try and test 2 mice on my desktop Mar 15 12:09:36 but if your app is any indication its not the core that will fail, its the fixes youput ontop of that Mar 15 12:09:37 so Qt scroll mechanism emits events that say "I scrolled" Mar 15 12:09:52 and the app doesn't know how - fingers, scrollbar, wheel Mar 15 12:09:53 i just have a move event Mar 15 12:09:57 is the next tablet going to be multitouch? Mar 15 12:10:17 if you go in deep then you have to do the clever interface abstraction yourself Mar 15 12:10:21 EruditeHermit: no - it was just me extending thiking Mar 15 12:10:54 well, Xorg is looking at multi-touch - it's horribly complex. Mar 15 12:10:58 lbt, the app shouldnt care how or why its moving, its just that moving at that time is the correct thing to do and the app should handle itself Mar 15 12:11:04 yes indeedy Mar 15 12:11:18 which is how i do it at present Mar 15 12:11:32 so if we hildonise the scrollbar a good app won't care Mar 15 12:11:55 but its not the scrollbar thats being hildonized, its the main surface Mar 15 12:12:09 mmm Mar 15 12:12:36 and that main surface will already have its handlers Mar 15 12:12:47 not with you there? Mar 15 12:12:53 qt is entrenched in mouse ui Mar 15 12:13:12 no more so than every other gui framework Mar 15 12:13:29 :) Mar 15 12:13:34 and actually most code in a Qt app doesn't touch mouse events Mar 15 12:13:38 * lcukx41 breaks the rules Mar 15 12:13:59 totally agree Mar 15 12:14:03 in fact a Qt app that uses 'mouse' is "unusual" Mar 15 12:14:32 so I disagree that "qt is entrenched in mouse ui" Mar 15 12:14:41 no, but it is evolved from objects which at their core do - and each layer of abstraction takes you one step away from solving it in a novel and simple manner Mar 15 12:14:48 I think it has done an excellent abstraction job Mar 15 12:15:01 there is no simple manner Mar 15 12:15:02 100% agree Mar 15 12:15:11 any touch system fails on a non-touch Mar 15 12:15:20 or keyboard driven Mar 15 12:15:26 yes, they are very different Mar 15 12:15:34 1 size does not fit all Mar 15 12:15:42 which is where abstraction comes in Mar 15 12:15:45 i do not expect to wear my running shoes on the icerink Mar 15 12:15:52 socks though Mar 15 12:16:07 and shoelaces Mar 15 12:16:13 and soles and uppers Mar 15 12:16:16 lol Mar 15 12:16:28 most things are shared Mar 15 12:16:37 good abstaction is done well Mar 15 12:16:48 which is why hildon is configured Mar 15 12:16:53 not run-time Mar 15 12:16:59 (probably) Mar 15 12:17:17 If you live on an ice-rink you *never* need running shoes... Mar 15 12:17:42 Anyhow - lets see about gcc for Mer Mar 15 12:17:44 yes, like i said originally, i think qt is amazingly good Mar 15 12:18:01 (or i probably put it as its not bad) :D Mar 15 12:18:53 oh, it still needs a good kicking every now and again... Mar 15 12:19:21 heh Mar 15 12:19:50 this snippet : http://pastebin.com/d3d7b31c5 Mar 15 12:20:22 is needed to make sure the scrolled area is redrawn properly following a child font change. Mar 15 12:20:37 yes, you need to call processEvents() twice.... Mar 15 12:21:02 lol Mar 15 12:21:20 did you suss why you get killed Mar 15 12:26:03 https://garage.maemo.org/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=3627&group_id=424&atid=1605 Mar 15 12:28:14 its killing multiple people! Mar 15 12:29:06 hmm Mar 15 12:29:19 anyone tried jaunty on an n8x0? Mar 15 12:33:22 Tu13es: mer is based on jaunty, afaik Mar 15 12:33:33 ah, i was wondering what that was Mar 15 12:37:48 lbt, identical usability problems/glitches arise when using a nipple instead of a a mouse. it works but its not optimal :D Mar 15 12:38:42 well, not identical... you control a cursor on the screen Mar 15 12:41:14 from a usability perspective ive still got to aim that cursor in the wrong place and i cant use the neat hack that is a scrollwheel Mar 15 12:42:09 well, you can have a scrollwheel and a nipple Mar 15 12:42:12 or a trackerball Mar 15 12:42:26 all control an onscreen cursor Mar 15 12:42:45 touch loses the onscreen cursor - it's implicit in the movement Mar 15 12:43:36 nipple is nice for gaming Mar 15 12:44:47 lbt, "can", this x41 has no additional things, im reminded whenever i try to use it and wonder how people become comfortable with touchpads etc (though they have the hack nowadays) Mar 15 12:45:50 glass? i cant even control it normally, just using it to navigate a webpage is hard work Mar 15 12:46:39 lcukx41: lack of practice? not enough sensitivity in the nipple? Mar 15 12:47:30 lcukx41: a good nipple has a quite wide range, like a decent joystick Mar 15 12:47:34 its sensitive enough, its just very fiddly to get around Mar 15 12:49:02 hi, is Marijn Kruisselbrink is here please ? Mar 15 12:50:11 moo all Mar 15 12:50:36 * RST38h reads " lcukx41: lack of practice? not enough sensitivity in the nipple?" and wonders. Mar 15 12:51:10 * lcukx41 shows rst his nipple Mar 15 12:51:14 so should I install Mer or the plain Ubuntu? Mar 15 12:51:56 t-nor: people commonly use nicknames in there Mar 15 12:52:14 i don't know is nickname Mar 15 12:52:28 Tu13es: Mer Mar 15 12:52:37 i might be wrong but i think its mek Mar 15 12:52:37 but i created this repository : http://93.157.1.37/~marijn/maemo/ Mar 15 12:52:38 if you want to use touch Mar 15 12:52:46 s/i/he/ Mar 15 12:52:47 t-nor meant: but he created this repository : http://93.157.1.37/~marijn/maemo/ Mar 15 12:52:54 ah, that's sort of important as i'm on an n800 Mar 15 12:52:57 lcukx41: sorry, busy RMAing a switch Mar 15 12:53:27 Tu13es: true - Mer is still alpha though... (as is ubuntu) Mar 15 12:53:32 lbt dont worry just pondering still Mar 15 12:53:33 heh, yeah Mar 15 12:53:44 the alpha part doesn't bug me, i just need a reason to dig out my n800 :P Mar 15 12:53:46 t-nor: yeah its mek you are after and hes here but away Mar 15 12:54:18 ok thanks Mar 15 12:55:34 oh, if 0.10 is out tomorrow i'll wait on that then Mar 15 12:57:51 .. want to kill the teenagers in the train Mar 15 12:58:02 how much SD do I need for Mer? Mar 15 12:58:31 1-2gb, depending on usage Mar 15 12:58:41 hmm Mar 15 12:58:48 k Mar 15 12:58:59 is it just lighter than the Ubuntu release? that one recommends 4+gb Mar 15 12:59:23 i have mer on my 1gb mem stick, am i doing something wrong Mar 15 12:59:27 Tu13es: yeah, it's lighter Mar 15 12:59:48 aha Mar 15 13:00:07 does it "look" like ubuntu? from the screenshot it mostly just looks like Maemo Mar 15 13:00:20 it looks like maemo but has 90% of apps from ubuntu :P Mar 15 13:00:38 interesting Mar 15 13:00:41 trust me, after a bit you get tired of a desktop env on a mobile device Mar 15 13:00:52 heh, i'm sure Mar 15 13:01:00 i get tired of my n800 anyways though :P Mar 15 13:01:23 wtf? there is no graphviz available in i386 repos? Mar 15 13:01:28 just in armel? Mar 15 13:01:34 https://garage.maemo.org/builder/diablo/speex_1.2~beta4-2maemo0/i386.root.log.FAILED.txt Mar 15 13:17:26 anyone know a small light "wordpad" repalcement for linux? Mar 15 13:18:17 vim? Mar 15 13:18:18 :P Mar 15 13:19:06 lol Mar 15 13:21:13 kwrite Mar 15 13:22:10 does it work in gnome? Mar 15 13:22:27 if you install the kde-libs as well Mar 15 13:22:37 but in this case a gnome-based edtor would be easier Mar 15 13:22:42 ooh leafpad comes up in the same search Mar 15 13:22:42 gedit or so Mar 15 13:22:45 ive heard of leafpad Mar 15 13:22:53 i want basic rtf formatting Mar 15 13:22:59 but not ott Mar 15 13:23:07 openoffice :) Mar 15 13:23:17 or abiword Mar 15 13:24:07 too much bloat Mar 15 13:24:11 scite ? Mar 15 13:24:19 just did an apt-cache search gtk rtf Mar 15 13:26:12 heh, leafpad is a replacement for "notepad" - thats good to know at least Mar 15 13:26:18 but gedit does most of that for me Mar 15 13:27:25 * lcukx41 tries scite Mar 15 13:28:15 kwrite has no formatting Mar 15 13:29:59 there are all text-editors i think Mar 15 13:30:06 and no rtf Mar 15 13:31:12 lcuk, I found a python rtf widget a little back. Mar 15 13:32:11 lcuk, But I'll have to dig up the name of it again.. and my gf's rushing me out the door.. so later. :-P Mar 15 13:32:50 lol Mar 15 13:33:16 ill just install wine and wordpad then - the bitch is the tiny default editor on maemo is probably just enough for my needs Mar 15 13:33:21 but i want it on a big screen Mar 15 13:33:45 Stskeeps: QUICK!!! can you get mer production ready by 2pm? Mar 15 13:52:34 "Further testing has shown that is is both intelligent and malignant." Mar 15 13:52:47 "Prolonged eye contact caused one of my assistants to go suddenly and violently insane, killing and raping the corpse of my other assistant with such speed that it took the shocked guard almost 30 seconds to put the poor boy down. Further experimentation is not recommended." Mar 15 13:53:09 ? Mar 15 13:55:54 Corsac: http://scp-wiki.wikidot.com/scp-403 Mar 15 14:11:17 Engadget picks up the weirdest stories on the tablets. Mar 15 14:12:21 yes Mar 15 14:17:48 General: SPARC-based 24" flexible tablets? =) Mar 15 14:18:39 "HR departments at companies like Microsoft and IBM are starting to use mathematical analysis to determine the value of each employee." - oh no Mar 15 14:19:40 ah I see what you mean Mar 15 14:21:18 Well, I've now got the battery for a Beagle carputer Mar 15 14:21:42 bAttery? Mar 15 14:23:23 mercar? Mar 15 14:24:12 mermobile Mar 15 14:28:18 timelE61i, a little li-ion battery I got off woot that outputs to USB. Mar 15 14:28:42 Just need to find a USB-to-Beagle adaptor so I can free up the MiniUSB port for real stuff. Mar 15 14:40:24 GeneralAntilles, I had been wondering if those li-ion+boost_converter things spat out power clean enough to run something like beagle :) Mar 15 14:40:51 ShadowJK, well, it boots to u-boot anyway. Mar 15 14:40:56 Dunno about more than that. Mar 15 14:41:16 I'm picturing it more as a keep-alive solution while the car is off. Mar 15 15:14:37 hello all! Mar 15 15:14:59 I have noticed a peculiar problem - I'm not sure how long it's been there. Basically, my /etc/resolv.conf is no longer updated when I connect to a new network. Mar 15 15:15:28 I don't see anything obvious on bugs.m.o Mar 15 15:15:41 any thoughts on how to go foward? Mar 15 15:15:49 isn't it supposed to be 127.0.0.1 constantly? :P Mar 15 15:15:53 and go to dnsmasq Mar 15 15:15:56 really? Mar 15 15:16:05 .. i think so Mar 15 15:16:36 cat /tmp/resolv.conf.wlan0 Mar 15 15:17:14 that is correct Mar 15 15:17:25 wow. that's weird. Mar 15 15:17:27 that certainly works. Mar 15 15:17:31 I wonder how my resolv.conf got messed up Mar 15 15:24:36 hi all Mar 15 15:26:26 hi ranjith, you just missed all Mar 15 15:26:28 he just left Mar 15 15:26:49 lcukx41: why..? Mar 15 15:27:35 lcukx41: i dint get you.. why you said i missed all..? Mar 15 15:28:10 ... dont worry Mar 15 15:28:54 luckx41..hm..? Mar 15 15:29:20 does anyone have mobile mythtv installed? Mar 15 15:29:21 oh iwas just saying hi everybody.. Mar 15 15:29:39 z4chh: not I, but I find the idea fascinating, and would like to subscribe to your newsletter. Mar 15 15:29:54 o_O Mar 15 15:29:58 dint notice any one with alias 'all' here.. Mar 15 15:30:08 I'm not aware that mythtv runs on the N8x0 Mar 15 15:30:18 ranjith: that's because All left just before you arrived. Mar 15 15:30:22 lbt, frontend mythtv Mar 15 15:30:28 nor am i - i would also like to subscribe to the newsletter as wlel Mar 15 15:30:31 can't have a backend of course ;p Mar 15 15:30:32 lbt: the client was ported Mar 15 15:30:46 I must have been hibernating Mar 15 15:30:53 z4chh: why cant it - we have a video source Mar 15 15:30:55 lbt. Yep. It's been a while Mar 15 15:30:59 anyone managed to get extras-devel repo inside scratchbox in maemo 5 ? Mar 15 15:31:26 Later, folks. Mar 15 15:32:17 * lbt waves to GAN800 Mar 15 15:32:34 lcukx41, i suppose there is a way to make it a myth backend but i was pointing out the obvious, nxxo doesn't have a built-in tv tuner >.< Mar 15 15:32:53 has an fm tuner. Mar 15 15:33:08 i did a video call to tracy te other day whilst football was on telly and she was busy in the kitchen cooking :D Mar 15 15:33:14 n810 doesnt Mar 15 15:33:25 nyah Mar 15 15:33:36 heheh. telly : ) Mar 15 15:33:37 n810 is nothing Mar 15 15:33:53 it worked well until jakey picked it up and started wandering round the house goin "mum, mum why are you shouting" Mar 15 15:33:56 as an aside, is maemo 5 out/usable yet? Mar 15 15:33:56 lcuk, what did you make a video call with? gizmo? Mar 15 15:34:14 z4chh: I think only sofia works with maemo Mar 15 15:34:17 sofiasip Mar 15 15:34:17 z4chh: the default internet call thing, it works through google Mar 15 15:34:29 z4chh: gtalk? that does video with maemo? Mar 15 15:34:30 works nicely Mar 15 15:34:36 lcukx41, ahh, ive used that Mar 15 15:34:43 default internet calling yeah Mar 15 15:34:51 * lcukx41 doesnt know the name of the app Mar 15 15:34:53 * lcukx41 is a n00b Mar 15 15:35:07 it's via gmail though? Mar 15 15:35:22 i think so, gmail bobs up when i am using it Mar 15 15:35:26 on desktop Mar 15 15:35:40 i havent tried video from 810 to desktop though Mar 15 15:35:51 its just mysterious and uses the airwaves somehow Mar 15 15:35:53 * lcukx41 waves hands Mar 15 15:36:24 ballsack Mar 15 15:36:29 my 810 is dead again Mar 15 15:36:47 this has been the same for most of the week Mar 15 15:36:55 * lcukx41 ponders what has been installed Mar 15 15:36:56 you have to take the ballsack off of it to see the screen clearly. Mar 15 15:37:13 sometimes you should consider a good spray cleaner and wipe with a microcloth too if it's smudged Mar 15 15:37:30 but if i do that i cant use my stylus Mar 15 15:37:35 it doesnt stretch that far Mar 15 15:37:40 I'd also clean the residue Mar 15 15:37:44 no matter how much i pull it Mar 15 15:38:03 hahaha! Mar 15 15:38:11 way to extend the joke : ) Mar 15 15:38:17 * lcukx41 tried giving it a really big yank Mar 15 15:38:24 i ended up in hospital! Mar 15 15:38:42 * lcukx41 straightens tie Mar 15 15:39:09 now, my 810 has not survived a night for about a week, its got to be something ive installed because i havent done anything different now to how i normally use it Mar 15 15:39:39 does qt install anything that runs all the time Mar 15 15:41:55 I can't imagine why it would Mar 15 15:42:36 nor can i Mar 15 15:42:54 umm, theres a list somewhere of the packages installed in sequence, ive found it once in the past Mar 15 15:44:03 on the maemo? Mar 15 15:44:10 it's usually in /var/apt or something, no? Mar 15 15:44:25 anyone get maqii running? the quake 2? Mar 15 15:47:36 qwerty12_N800, do you have extras-devel configured inside your maemo 5 SDK ? Mar 15 15:47:56 VDVsx: nope :) Mar 15 15:48:33 I'm booting into linux now, lemme see if I can get it done Mar 15 15:48:34 mine is failing to fetch :( Mar 15 15:52:26 * lbt slaps Debian for doing bad things to his bridge interface in an update Mar 15 15:54:06 VDVsx, "deb http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/ fremantle free non-free" WFM Mar 15 15:54:20 (and "deb-src http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/ fremantle free" for some apt-get sourcing) Mar 15 15:54:22 qwerty12, works ? Mar 15 15:54:31 yep Mar 15 15:54:49 Just installed mikkov's leafpad Mar 15 15:55:24 i cant find where the dpkg history i found a while ago is Mar 15 15:55:33 lemme do some investigation Mar 15 15:55:44 I'm having a lot of errors here :) lets restart scratchbox :) Mar 15 15:57:18 qwerty12_N800, the app manager works for you in maemo 5 ? Mar 15 15:57:36 No, it says no apps installed Mar 15 15:57:53 I just apt-get my way around Mar 15 16:00:02 qwerty12_N800 lcuk, the "pretty" way: ls -l /var/lib/dpkg/info/*.list | awk '{print $6 " "$7" "$8}' | sed s/.list// | sort Mar 15 16:00:14 * lcukx41 needs to put qwerty on a retainer Mar 15 16:01:11 Think someone posted a cleaner command line than that :P Mar 15 16:01:54 if i could bring up the folder in the gui i would know specifically which was causing my hangups Mar 15 16:02:58 this is quite outdated: http://test.maemo.org/faq/faq.html Mar 15 16:04:22 All of test is outdated Mar 15 16:05:23 gonna do a maemo 5 screencast, any sugested app to show ? :) Mar 15 16:06:53 VDVsx: where do you post them? Mar 15 16:07:33 VDVsx: youtube Mar 15 16:07:41 yes Mar 15 16:07:55 VDVsx: Shopper Mar 15 16:08:04 see if the rotation works... Mar 15 16:08:10 and Qt Mar 15 16:08:25 lbt, is in fremantle extras-devel ? Mar 15 16:08:28 Lol, I can actually IRC from GTA :P Mar 15 16:08:50 I thought they threw the whole of Diablo Extras into the fremantle builder Mar 15 16:09:01 if the computer inside gta is running microsoft you can probably pwn it as well Mar 15 16:09:02 Nah, you have to upload your self for the time being Mar 15 16:09:07 i hope its got norton installed Mar 15 16:09:21 mutter - gimme a sec then :) Mar 15 16:09:33 does anyone play blobby volley? >.< Mar 15 16:09:38 Directory listing is not allowed : http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/dists/fremantle/ Mar 15 16:09:45 WTF? Mar 15 16:09:58 i would guess you cannot list the directory Mar 15 16:10:06 don't have enough time for that :) Mar 15 16:10:17 can for diablo Mar 15 16:10:21 VDVsx: what is your youtube channel? Mar 15 16:10:34 z4chh: I've just installed it Mar 15 16:10:42 but it's too fast for me Mar 15 16:10:42 sisto1, it is addicting o_o Mar 15 16:10:46 * lcukx41 just wants to see a quick run through of the clutterybits and anything else fancy Mar 15 16:10:48 I lowered the speed to 40% Mar 15 16:10:58 sisto1, VDVLinux Mar 15 16:11:10 z4chh: it's fun and addicting yes :) Mar 15 16:11:47 to bad the network game doesn't work Mar 15 16:12:36 VDVsx: thank you, will check it out Mar 15 16:13:16 I have to make the screen first :) Mar 15 16:13:39 ok... will check in 5 minutes then :P Mar 15 16:13:54 :) Mar 15 16:15:04 sisto1, ahaha, you have to wait a little more time :P Mar 15 16:15:23 :> Mar 15 16:19:05 qwerty12, what apps had you already submitted to fremantle extras-devel ? Mar 15 16:19:43 VDV sx, nothing as of yet - I'm focusing on chinook/diablo ATM Mar 15 16:19:59 humm Mar 15 16:20:24 qwerty12, you don't upload transmition ? Mar 15 16:21:25 not atm Mar 15 16:21:53 I don't know what exist already in fremantle :( Mar 15 16:22:00 I need to remove the maemo-select-menu-location thing and make it so it compiles cleanly under Fremantle Mar 15 16:33:35 qwerty12it should work still shouldnt it - they just said depreciated Mar 15 16:33:46 and useless Mar 15 16:33:58 but not a direct "you must remove this" Mar 15 16:34:28 Good point, but I'll have to check to make sure it doesn't exit with !=0 value or that'll mess things up Mar 15 16:34:34 maemo-select-country-location(northerner, southern_jessie) is still around i hope Mar 15 16:34:42 hehe# Mar 15 16:38:16 lbt, how strick about OO is the qt model. does it enforce strict rules about your classes? Mar 15 16:38:31 it's C++ Mar 15 16:38:31 ie, are you allowed globals etc Mar 15 16:38:37 yes Mar 15 16:38:54 yeah i know that, but c++ allows a lot more than some Mar 15 16:39:51 im just pondering my way around an idea ive got and wonder whether c++ will give me what im looking for Mar 15 16:40:05 it's a *very* thin veneer on top of C++ it just provided some macro-like keywords which are expanded into 'moc' files Mar 15 16:40:13 these go into the make and depends Mar 15 16:40:17 and are all linked Mar 15 16:40:40 consider it as "almost vanilla" C++ Mar 15 16:40:46 do they use instance globals though Mar 15 16:41:06 i am wondering just how much of the object model is accessible without any globals at all Mar 15 16:41:18 there are some - eg qApp is a global variable to allow access to things (think argc) Mar 15 16:41:39 it allows introspection Mar 15 16:41:41 yeah similar in liqbase, but im after making that an instance Mar 15 16:42:36 currently liqbase widgets compile into .so modules for inclusion into the main app, i *think* i can allow the same source to be built with a small wrapper to just be a normal runnable binary Mar 15 16:42:52 it also provides a garbage collector pattern Mar 15 16:43:18 garbage doesnt bother me, once ref count reaches zero things stop existing Mar 15 16:43:38 typically you write a class to extend a well known widgets (eg QMainWindow) Mar 15 16:43:59 but then you create another that includes many instances of specific widgets Mar 15 16:44:11 buttons, labels, text boxes, layouts Mar 15 16:44:29 and then you link your data to the widgets using signals/slots Mar 15 16:44:51 which are auto-generated case switches with guards Mar 15 16:45:13 (plus some thread handling) Mar 15 16:45:42 normal stuff :) so if your "main()" by default called into "createapp()" which returned this instance of your class extended from QMainWindow and did everything on that instance.. Mar 15 16:46:14 .. you could technically then with alternative make options call "createapp()" from something that held lots of these Mar 15 16:46:22 http://pastebin.com/d613d5ac6 Mar 15 16:47:01 http://doc.trolltech.com/4.4/qapplication.html Mar 15 16:48:01 however you are straying into OS territory - which may not be good design Mar 15 16:51:46 Meizirkki, you online in 45 mins or so so we can track down Fn issue? Mar 15 16:53:55 hi everybody Mar 15 16:54:31 hiya disco_stu Mar 15 16:54:42 hows it goin Mar 15 16:54:43 been away from #maemo for a while Mar 15 16:54:55 lcukx41: fine :) Mar 15 16:56:03 Stskeeps, okay Mar 15 16:56:09 lcukx41: i'm tired of microb Mar 15 16:56:16 microb sucks ! Mar 15 16:56:42 Tear FTW Mar 15 16:56:44 i wouldnt know, i use the internet so infrequently lol Mar 15 16:57:13 disco_stu: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26475 Mar 15 16:57:27 qwerty12: last time i tried tear it used to crash every 5 minutes.. letrs try it now Mar 15 16:57:41 qwerty12: have you tried prism ? Mar 15 16:57:49 Still crashes but a *lot* less often Mar 15 16:57:50 nope Mar 15 16:58:21 qwerty12: i saw this: http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/prism-maemo4/ Mar 15 16:58:46 qwerty12: but i dont have 30mb, cause i'm not running from clone os rigth now Mar 15 16:59:10 how about gotos? Mar 15 16:59:26 ? Mar 15 17:01:08 gotos? Ah, Microsoft. Mar 15 17:02:56 the got OS is very instable Mar 15 17:15:01 VDVsx: !!!!! Mar 15 17:16:14 lcukx41, don't like the video, lol, I done my best :) eheheh Mar 15 17:16:49 just the opposite, the video is very impressive Mar 15 17:17:04 hi, i want to install about 250Mo of package on my N810. How could i install it on mmc2 Mar 15 17:17:07 ? Mar 15 17:17:32 because on / there are not enough free space Mar 15 17:17:41 t-nor: you could switch your system over to boot from your mmc card Mar 15 17:17:41 t-nor: in general you can't Mar 15 17:17:59 qwerty12: where can i get libwebkit ? Mar 15 17:18:07 or you could find a directory with lots in it Mar 15 17:18:09 but is it 250mb of apps or is it data that could be pointed to from a smaller installed app Mar 15 17:18:14 move it to the mmc2 Mar 15 17:18:19 mount it back on the same dir Mar 15 17:18:28 and free up space that way Mar 15 17:18:42 I did that with /home/user/.../maps Mar 15 17:18:57 maps is already on mmc2? Mar 15 17:19:00 so all my map dls for Maemo Mapper are not taking up space in / Mar 15 17:19:02 on my 810 it is anways Mar 15 17:19:14 ahh Mar 15 17:19:16 maybe I was hacking :) Mar 15 17:19:25 it's not possible to install on mmc2 with dpkg --instdir ? Mar 15 17:19:26 principle is the same Mar 15 17:19:28 no Mar 15 17:19:38 well, it's not sane Mar 15 17:20:12 qwerty12: i got it :) Mar 15 17:20:43 t-nor: that would give you a partial chrooted system - you don't want that... Mar 15 17:20:45 because it's for a student project, it's not my N810 so if i could do it without flash the device it will be better Mar 15 17:21:10 you shouldn't need to flash it Mar 15 17:21:22 but you're messing in the guts Mar 15 17:21:24 disco_stu: cool :) Mar 15 17:21:52 why can't you just use symbolic links anyway? Mar 15 17:22:58 lbt: you means moving files to mmc2 to have enough space to install my packages ? Mar 15 17:23:10 yes Mar 15 17:23:41 first job is to find where all the space has gone Mar 15 17:23:46 but i don't install anythings on my N810 and map are already on mmc2 Mar 15 17:24:10 can you ssh into it? Mar 15 17:24:23 use: Mar 15 17:24:27 yes that the only thing i install Mar 15 17:24:28 du -sh * Mar 15 17:24:36 on / Mar 15 17:24:37 ? Mar 15 17:24:51 I'd start in /home Mar 15 17:25:06 df -h Mar 15 17:25:19 will also give you info - not sure how much you know Mar 15 17:25:52 > /dev/mtdblock4 251.5M 158.4M 93.1M 63% / Mar 15 17:26:17 > /dev/mmcblk0p1 1.8G 250.4M 1.5G 14% /media/mmc2 Mar 15 17:26:30 nothing on home Mar 15 17:27:23 hmm, I forgot how small they are - I have 2 multi Gb cards :) Mar 15 17:27:49 yes ... Mar 15 17:27:53 so try du -sh in /usr Mar 15 17:29:33 lbt: http://pastebin.com/m711c4148 Mar 15 17:29:58 qwerty12: i can not install tear Mar 15 17:30:44 Grab its dependencies as required Mar 15 17:31:38 qwerty12: libwebkit complains, and i got a broken pipe when dpkg -i 'ing it Mar 15 17:32:05 Broken pipe is when you're out of space or something Mar 15 17:32:47 t-nor: what fs is on mmc2? Mar 15 17:32:58 if it is FAT then you may have problems... Mar 15 17:33:13 qwerty12: maybe i have only 28 Mb Mar 15 17:33:21 ext2 because i try to install package on it vfat don't allow it Mar 15 17:33:40 good Mar 15 17:33:44 so you have 50Mb in /usr/share Mar 15 17:34:10 what you could do is move /usr/share onto mmc2 and then use a symbolic link Mar 15 17:34:32 if you remove mmc2 then your system will fail horribly Mar 15 17:35:24 hm, the blur effect on menus is weird Mar 15 17:35:48 hmm - actually I wonder if that will cause boot-time problems Mar 15 17:35:55 I've not done this you understand :) Mar 15 17:36:40 have a look in / to see if there are any other candidates for moving - /usr accounts for about 1/3 your usage Mar 15 17:38:08 i don't think that move this kind of repertory is the good solution :-/ Mar 15 17:38:25 why in hell nobody puts the tear dependecies all together Mar 15 17:38:43 it's very risky Mar 15 17:38:58 meh - it's not without risk Mar 15 17:40:05 but you have few options without using a bigger partition for / Mar 15 17:40:47 i think i have to flash the device Mar 15 17:41:20 but what the flash allow me to do ? Mar 15 17:41:43 how would flashing it help more than just removing packages you don't need? Mar 15 17:42:30 i just want to have much space, using mmc2 to install package Mar 15 17:48:40 lo slonopotamus Mar 15 17:48:54 hi Stskeeps Mar 15 17:56:22 Is it risky to flash the N810, i will loose the guarantee ? Mar 15 17:56:32 no you will not Mar 15 17:57:02 i could rollback to the original setting after ? Mar 15 17:57:12 wowwwwwwwwwww Mar 15 17:57:18 tear is awesome ! Mar 15 17:58:53 t-nor, flashing is basicly that you revert your tablet to it's original state Mar 15 18:30:50 hi again... Mar 15 18:31:22 why is the sb1/2-team not working on x64-repos? Mar 15 18:32:55 t-nor, flashing your nokia device to original specifications is a standard documented procedure for your tablet, make sure however you follow the instructions carefully Mar 15 18:42:33 * b-man wonders why bman.maemobox.org is down, hmm :( Mar 15 18:43:09 prolly got spiked after your Engadget article Mar 15 18:43:09 :P Mar 15 18:43:21 What!?!? Mar 15 18:43:26 .. i'm not kidding Mar 15 18:43:32 wow Mar 15 18:43:42 http://www.engadget.com/2009/03/15/ubuntu-9-04-ported-to-nokias-n8x0-internet-tablets/ Mar 15 18:43:58 ..o..m..g.. Mar 15 18:44:17 now, you owe us all beer Mar 15 18:44:18 :P Mar 15 18:44:19 * b-man dances Mar 15 18:45:07 wohhooo!!!!!!! Mar 15 18:45:36 wohoo!! because bman.maemobox.org is down ??? :P Mar 15 18:45:44 congrats! Mar 15 18:46:02 thats some good press, man Mar 15 18:46:46 Meizirkki: because my efforts have been noticed on a global scale Mar 15 18:47:05 yes, i was just kiddin' Mar 15 18:47:57 whats up with your site? Mar 15 18:48:05 * b-man wants to tell everyone he knows about this :D Mar 15 18:48:18 it got overloaded Mar 15 18:48:32 b-man: about what? Mar 15 18:48:45 b-man: remember to mention the amount of work put into it by everyone else too ;) Mar 15 18:48:57 I will ;) Mar 15 18:49:16 * Stskeeps gets back to his lassanga Mar 15 18:59:20 * b-man sends an e-mail to all of his friends :) Mar 15 19:00:22 b-man: with links to the dead site? ;) Mar 15 19:01:04 so now we'll know. no email and we're not your friend.... OK Mar 15 19:02:33 luke-jr: it's not my fault it got overloaded - i don't have control over that, it's not my server, i'm only using it XD Mar 15 19:03:39 oh sure... It isn't your fault for putting content ... An attractive nuisance on a server Mar 15 19:04:51 people get like that when they get famous timelE61i Mar 15 19:04:54 i didn't know it was going to be a hit XD Mar 15 19:05:30 * b-man is famous? Mar 15 19:06:13 well Mar 15 19:06:17 your port is Mar 15 19:06:29 your name isn't there ;) Mar 15 19:06:49 omg, 90 people are browsing my thread Mar 15 19:06:52 oh, wait, no. It's 19:06, you were only famous until 19:05. Sorry. Mar 15 19:07:00 lol Mar 15 19:07:01 gOtta take a lesson from linus and name your software after yourself Mar 15 19:07:20 timelE61i: *Cough* Mar 15 19:07:27 b-man: now just hope you don't get a trademark comment from ubuntu.. Mar 15 19:07:27 :P Mar 15 19:07:32 LIES Mar 15 19:07:48 lil Mar 15 19:07:49 mmm onion soup Mar 15 19:07:52 lol Mar 15 19:07:58 Stskeeps: heh Mar 15 19:08:04 * Stskeeps had glorious lassagna today. Mar 15 19:08:59 * b-man hopes he doesn't drown in questions Mar 15 19:09:29 so b-man Mar 15 19:09:42 how do you build ubuntu for arm? Mar 15 19:10:16 "how can I get nvidia drivers compiled for ubuntu maemo?!" Mar 15 19:10:17 lol Mar 15 19:10:35 "please make wine run warcraftz" Mar 15 19:10:44 actually I was serious :) Mar 15 19:10:49 do you use sbox? Mar 15 19:11:01 one of my friends (a hot 20yo fem with big boobs) thinks the guy who ported ubuntu to the tablets must be hot Mar 15 19:11:14 and she wants his number Mar 15 19:11:25 lbt: i didn't compile ubuntu for arm, ubuntu did that Mar 15 19:11:56 I want to build the hildonised Qt4.5 for it Mar 15 19:11:58 lcuk: keep in mind i'm 16 Mar 15 19:12:06 for Mer actually Mar 15 19:12:36 b-man: age of consent is 16 in UK Mar 15 19:12:37 :P Mar 15 19:12:44 .. or is it 17? i forget Mar 15 19:12:51 16 Mar 15 19:12:53 and at 16 the thought of that happening wouldv sent my underpant elastic across the room Mar 15 19:13:04 * lbt wishes it ever mattered Mar 15 19:13:06 "keep in mind i'm 16" guess you are restricted wetware in some countries Mar 15 19:13:28 yup :P Mar 15 19:13:48 we cant even buy you a beer to celebrate Mar 15 19:13:49 ok .. liberty-mer marquee first gets it background when it is redrawn Mar 15 19:13:50 O_o Mar 15 19:14:06 heh Mar 15 19:14:30 man when I was 16 I was just building rc cars, kids these days are building computers to take over the world Mar 15 19:14:46 and putting them in rc cars Mar 15 19:14:47 hehe >:) Mar 15 19:15:09 mavhc: touche! Mar 15 19:15:20 give him her number, then he can phone when he's old enough Mar 15 19:15:32 lol Mar 15 19:17:59 I've noticed it's psycologically easier to read someonelses book on a train, than check out their PDA screen when they are reading an ebook. It seems like the latter is more of a privacy invasion than the former Mar 15 19:18:44 but I'm still curious what ebooks folks are reading Mar 15 19:20:03 a good ebook reader should have a little screen on the back oriented for other people that displays the name of the book they are reading (at the users option of course) Mar 15 19:21:20 maybe its more cause for conversation Mar 15 19:21:21 I'd want one with an ubertiny field of view Mar 15 19:21:27 lcuk: claim it's a religious practice? Mar 15 19:21:32 "hey, is that a kindle? whatscha reading?" Mar 15 19:21:47 So that other people couldn't see the shit I read Mar 15 19:23:09 the best public transport pda was an old dell someone pulled out from her bag, before the display came on you could see the scratches in the screen in certain odd palces, when the screen came on it became clear: she played solitaire for what must be a couple of hours a day every day since she got it - the scratches were at the gimme card and the 4 ace spots Mar 15 19:23:39 no i wont give out my friends number for religious purposes or not (even though you would say "omg" :D) Mar 15 19:24:04 shes only interested in ubuntu hackers lol Mar 15 19:24:13 lcuk: I mean the beer. Mar 15 19:24:15 fRee: i've read that the big sellers in ebooks isn't quite PG13 Mar 15 19:24:45 :D ahhhh Mar 15 19:24:50 * lcuk passes beers round Mar 15 19:24:55 ah, the good ol day of newsgroups trash Mar 15 19:25:37 timelE61i, ? technical manuals? Mar 15 19:26:16 feelikegun: about your rc car statement, it's all about the evolution of technology throughout younger generations, i grew up around computers - so this stuff comes naturally to me ;) Mar 15 19:28:59 lcuk: more like sociology+biology emebedded in romance... Mar 15 19:29:16 :D Mar 15 19:30:02 I was programming somewhere around 5-7 years old Mar 15 19:30:21 around 6 here Mar 15 19:30:37 * rmt_ yawns Mar 15 19:31:28 I confess I wish I learned Perl sooner tho Mar 15 19:32:06 mm, python here Mar 15 19:33:01 Python annoys me Mar 15 19:33:10 can't pinpoint quite why Mar 15 19:33:11 perl is superb :) Mar 15 19:33:23 perhaps because it is so antithetical to my coding practices Mar 15 19:33:24 you learn so many different things in it - sandbox Mar 15 19:41:25 sandbox kinda sucks, imho Mar 15 19:42:09 why isnt it just a targe cpu choice to build a binary, and then a simulator/debugger to do tests? Mar 15 19:44:33 could someone please tell me why this fails? Mar 15 19:44:38 https://garage.maemo.org/builder/diablo/graphviz_2.20.3-1maemo0/i386.build.log.FAILED.txt Mar 15 19:48:26 Oh, MicroB, MicroB, why do you insist on being so shit? Mar 15 19:49:30 qWerty: have you tried the rss reader or mail? Mar 15 19:50:46 RSS Reader works well (but I only have the default BBC feeds anyway) but point taken about mail Mar 15 19:52:02 A coworker who works on reliability seems to do most of the bug filing for rss Mar 15 19:52:28 And to say it works well is to choose to overlook a number of areas Mar 15 19:52:55 Among them is responsiveness to customer requests :) Mar 15 19:53:10 It works well with one feed then? :) Mar 15 19:53:16 i scaringily think i might spent most of my time in rss reader these days Mar 15 19:53:20 one default feed Mar 15 19:53:32 Sts: wow Mar 15 19:53:45 Please describe how you use it and why Mar 15 19:54:06 timelE61i: well i just have a huge amount of feeds and when i'm on my tablet i check news Mar 15 19:54:12 it's because i'm a newsjunkie :P Mar 15 19:54:43 you read feed at a time, all articles? Mar 15 19:54:52 Do you save items? Mar 15 19:55:08 Are you a music/video junkie? (no) Mar 15 19:55:29 i browse through until unread and i don't save items, as i usually access immediately Mar 15 19:55:58 if you could share, would you, how? Mar 15 19:56:14 Do you like pictures? Mar 15 19:56:37 music/video junkie not so much, but i have considered starting to use podcasts but not sure which kind i would like :P Mar 15 19:56:40 (and embedded video/flash for that matter) Mar 15 19:57:16 i am a fan of the concept of tvrss.net Mar 15 19:57:39 Is your content rss or atom Mar 15 19:57:42 rss Mar 15 19:57:48 And how do you add it? Mar 15 19:57:57 manually Mar 15 19:57:58 qwerty12_N800, did you get the news? :) http://www.engadget.com/2009/03/15/ubuntu-9-04-ported-to-nokias-n8x0-internet-tablets/ Mar 15 19:58:23 a legal way to do that would pretty much revolutionize media :P (tvrss.net) Mar 15 19:58:24 Ok, what failed? :@ Mar 15 19:58:26 b-man: yeah, read it. Congrats! :) Mar 15 19:58:57 timelE61i: i dunno, braindamage from my early rss days i guess Mar 15 19:59:06 good job, b-,man Mar 15 19:59:16 timelE61i: i like to find the rss links on my own Mar 15 19:59:51 timelE61i: i wouldn't mind something like rss feed synchronization really. Mar 15 19:59:58 as in, sharing between devices Mar 15 20:00:17 but that's probably just coming from a pervasive computing background .. Mar 15 20:01:33 moo all Mar 15 20:01:47 have you tried democracy player? Mar 15 20:01:52 point your desktop ~ at the one on your tablet :D when you are near you will have everything your tablet has :P Mar 15 20:02:04 RST38h: hi Mar 15 20:02:04 so, google reader supports opml Mar 15 20:02:13 and in theory so does rss feed reader Mar 15 20:02:23 although in practice, its impl is so bad that it iirc is barely advertised Mar 15 20:02:38 timelE61i: democracy player gives a bit of Joost vibe, but without the ugly interface.. Mar 15 20:02:44 I wish greader had a function to detect the duplicates and not show them Mar 15 20:03:13 sts: heh Mar 15 20:03:22 (initial reaction) Mar 15 20:03:27 isnt generic dupe detection a "hard" problem? Mar 15 20:03:42 lcuk: it apparently has had that before Mar 15 20:05:51 I got a free laptop backpack... with a logo on it that says "3Com 56k Power" Mar 15 20:05:56 ...I suppose that's why it was free Mar 15 20:06:05 56k? pft, luxury Mar 15 20:06:19 i began my internet adventures on a 14.4kbps .. at least, from my parents home Mar 15 20:06:21 well, my other backpack has a fibre connection :P Mar 15 20:06:29 * RST38h started at 2400bd Mar 15 20:06:44 I started at 1.5Mbps, as my family was late to the game Mar 15 20:07:04 When I bought 14.4kbd modem, TELNET and FTP became so lightning fast... Mar 15 20:07:32 what sort of lightning do you have where you live, then? Mar 15 20:07:57 the sort that used to buffer before striking Mar 15 20:08:06 but no longer! Mar 15 20:08:17 hahaha Mar 15 20:08:39 RST38h, did you move up to gifs then? Mar 15 20:10:12 mm, anyone good with quick art and making pngs with transparent background? Mar 15 20:10:14 'lo jott Mar 15 20:11:52 lcuk: Mosaic came later Mar 15 20:12:45 i thought you could get giffs from your local bbs Mar 15 20:13:18 REDHOT~1.GIF ;) Mar 15 20:13:39 and after downloading you discover its a scan of someones fireplace Mar 15 20:14:21 that was times, yes Mar 15 20:15:43 RST38h: I still remember someone arguing in a BBS that 2400bps is more than enough, since it rolls text faster than you can read anyway Mar 15 20:16:13 lcuk: I did not use BBSes Mar 15 20:16:25 Tried a few times but did not like it Mar 15 20:16:38 suih: they did have a point Mar 15 20:16:55 * RST38h used to browse GOPHER sites and NNTP Mar 15 20:17:52 RST38h: their point depends on the idea that you wont download any files Mar 15 20:17:59 (except perhaps 4k intros) Mar 15 20:18:22 http://pix.motivatedphotos.com/2008/11/30/633636364291940836-56k.jpg Mar 15 20:18:44 lcuk: hahaha Mar 15 20:19:30 lol Mar 15 20:22:45 nntp ♥ Mar 15 20:23:34 suih: those files were 2-4kb in size :) Mar 15 20:26:38 RST38h: and looked like the one in lcuk's picture :) Mar 15 20:27:44 'lo GA Mar 15 20:28:17 hello, GeneralAntilles Mar 15 20:29:07 GeneralAntilles: http://www.engadget.com/2009/03/15/ubuntu-9-04-ported-to-nokias-n8x0-internet-tablets/ Mar 15 20:29:11 :) Mar 15 20:39:54 b-man, yeah, saw that this morning. Mar 15 20:39:56 Engadget is funny. Mar 15 20:40:10 * GeneralAntilles has Growl notifications going across half his screen. Mar 15 20:41:46 Hey, Stskeeps. Mar 15 20:48:42 mail Mar 15 21:09:46 infobot, did i ask you to nuke my memorycard earlier? Mar 15 21:09:57 heh Mar 15 21:10:46 My memorycard is seriously dead... Mar 15 21:11:02 there was a lot of SegFaults during dist-upgrade Mar 15 21:11:15 and then the best part: Mar 15 21:11:32 reboot or halt causes SegFault :( Mar 15 21:11:37 hmm :( Mar 15 21:12:09 and of course, Mer did not boot anymore :( Mar 15 21:13:29 * lcuk accidentally his memory card Mar 15 21:13:39 meh, why is there a published resetwlan that just reboots the N810? Mar 15 21:15:15 luke-jr, theres many other ways to reset your 8x0 :D Mar 15 21:15:40 yeah, the goal is to reset wifi w/o rebooting Mar 15 21:15:41 -.- Mar 15 21:15:52 ahh Mar 15 21:16:37 what's the difference between mtum and umac? Mar 15 21:17:52 testing vs actual usage? dunno Mar 15 21:19:12 O.o Mar 15 21:20:54 ffs, these google drink vouchers are everywhere Mar 15 21:21:10 I just cleaned my damned handbag and out came like five unused ones Mar 15 21:21:43 google drink vouchers are like their mail, they keep growing so you always have enough Mar 15 21:22:15 yeah - I think it was actually jeremiah who shoved me like 8 or so of them to give around Mar 15 21:23:39 then why dont you go and shove em back in his Mar 15 21:23:41 postbox Mar 15 21:49:45 qwerty12_N800, does that vnc trick work with everything? Mar 15 21:50:26 im used to vnc not working in overlays anymore, i wonder where clutter itself lives on a real device - whether the opengl overlay will be transmitted Mar 15 21:50:44 lcuk: no idea, until i saw qole's post, i had no idea it could do even that Mar 15 21:51:00 its possible in scratchbox because its entirely emulated Mar 15 21:51:19 its like if you take a screenshot of desktops you get a blank area where games are Mar 15 21:51:22 or movies Mar 15 21:52:48 windows apps now can take screenshots of those areas Mar 15 21:54:13 mostly they can, you know what i mean then :) Mar 15 21:54:33 :) Mar 15 21:54:34 * lcuk can only take pictures when his mplayer is set to certain render modes Mar 15 21:55:19 * lcuk goes finding the n8x0 vnc client Mar 15 21:56:02 it's in extras, shouldn't take long :) Mar 15 21:56:27 heh even less, its in my extras menu Mar 15 21:56:30 * lcukx41 is a dolt Mar 15 22:02:59 oooer i think something broked clutter since i was last playing Mar 15 22:05:02 Stskeeps: pngs ? Mar 15 22:05:38 lbt: ah, just wondering where wazd disappeared off to and 0.10 won't have shiny artwork until we push out a theme update Mar 15 22:06:06 I can do technical things to pngs with Gimp - but not artistic things :) Mar 15 22:06:21 hehe Mar 15 22:06:43 i think i'll be fine, the release tomorrow will teach me the lesson we need to plan better and have a testing week :) Mar 15 22:06:56 wasn't sure if you needed some images chopping up and making transparent - that kind of help :) Mar 15 22:07:13 good idea that ;) Mar 15 22:09:29 right, and obviously the 0.10 test image i just made fails to boot Mar 15 22:09:32 that's just lovely. Mar 15 22:25:24 ive got a bit of a problem with vnc. ive got the server running on my laptop, ive got the client running on my tablet. i can see the screen. if i open a console directly on the laptop itself and run an app it opens a clutter window and runs. if i do this from the other putty console ive got open from my desktop to laptop i cannot see it and the app segfaults Mar 15 22:25:40 i have already tried: export DISPLAY=:0.0 Mar 15 22:25:46 which used to work for a similar issue Mar 15 22:25:51 any ideas? Mar 15 22:26:31 what's a clutter window Mar 15 22:26:50 clutter is the opengl based UI framework for maemo5 Mar 15 22:26:58 ah Mar 15 22:27:18 i can see the hand spinning round now over the vnc connection Mar 15 22:27:27 but i started the app from within the laptop itself Mar 15 22:27:47 i want to use the other normal ssh console window to run and read output from Mar 15 22:29:46 this ssh session is under the user you want to run the app as? ssh x forwarding disabled? Mar 15 22:30:16 mmm not sure Mar 15 22:30:38 ill restart the sessions and confirm which is which Mar 15 22:33:20 maybe try setting "let remote server deal with mouse cursor" Mar 15 22:38:07 hurrah!!! thank you once again southern linux guru Mar 15 22:38:18 Proteous, it was the users and permissions and stuff Mar 15 22:38:23 cool Mar 15 22:38:47 now i can run clutter apps (slowly) but get them on my tablet in front of me :) Mar 15 22:38:59 hehe :) Mar 15 22:42:00 do remote x apps cope with the network connection dying yet? Mar 15 22:45:06 hi guys and gals, is there anyone who can explain me some thing about packaging a python lib? Mar 15 22:47:43 I would like to package python libraries with py2deb, optimally using bdist_maemo, but it looks like I need to specify data_files and other files, but I would like it to grab a set as bdist_dumb does... Mar 15 22:55:33 sanchiii, not sure, normal developers have to (on the whole) manually setup their packages, the py2deb one is a simplified process. perhaps you could find out how to extend it by looking at the python code itself Mar 15 22:56:05 perhaps you could extend it to add the wildcard support or something? Mar 15 22:58:22 hm... I guess it should somehow work (bdist_dumb works as well) with the standard way. Just that bdist_maemo doesn't do anything here Mar 15 22:59:48 I guess that usually it should work with "packages=find_packages(exclude=['ez_setup'])," - that finds all packages that are in the directory Mar 15 23:02:06 or is the way to build it using bdist_dumb and then with py2deb only copy all files into the dest dir? Mar 15 23:02:50 ive never used either and im not a python dev and ive worked on exactly 1 package in my life :) Mar 15 23:03:04 * lcuk isnt the best person to ask :P Mar 15 23:04:28 :) thanks anyway (waiting for more online python devs...) Mar 15 23:06:32 hi is there anyone developing maemo 5 on device here? Mar 15 23:07:16 * fireun is developing maemo .17 Mar 15 23:07:34 bbns, plenty of people, but they're all under NDA. :) Mar 15 23:07:38 bbns, on which device Mar 15 23:07:49 well, i am thinking of BeagleBoard. Mar 15 23:08:09 because i want to test the real power of potential device, for instance, OpenGL ES Mar 15 23:08:27 bbns, how fast does you scratchbox run Mar 15 23:08:48 i only have a vmware one. Mar 15 23:08:59 which is pretty slow (from my point of view). Mar 15 23:09:32 see here: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=271812 Mar 15 23:10:08 thanks a bunch! Mar 15 23:10:17 i asked basically the same question and got a decent preview from someone whos running it still inside scratchbox but with a more realistic looking and feeling speed Mar 15 23:10:50 when running it myself i was getting 5 seconds a frame!!! Mar 15 23:10:54 i couldnt tell anything Mar 15 23:11:25 hmm so that's on scratchbox + xephyr on X86 target? Mar 15 23:11:50 yes Mar 15 23:12:45 bbns, since we dont know the actual specific hard figures for performance (it appears to still be being pored over if you follow #beagle) the best advice if you want to develop new clutter/opengl applications is keep it minimal. the simpler the better - use opengl to enchance what you do, dont depend on 10000000000000 polys per mesh Mar 15 23:13:08 i see. yep i have tried that. but i would like to see how it runs on ARM because scratchbox doesn't give me enough confident. :-/ Mar 15 23:13:34 bbns, thats all we have. and what i see now gives me confidence :) Mar 15 23:13:43 i was like you until i had seen the video Mar 15 23:14:02 :-P okay! it looks like it's the only way to go. Mar 15 23:14:08 yeah :) Mar 15 23:14:27 now ive got clutter itself running natively on my x86 laptop. and im using VNC to get it through to my tablet Mar 15 23:14:39 so i get fast clutter performance and as close to a real experience as i can Mar 15 23:15:00 so VNC on Tablet and outsource to the laptop? Mar 15 23:15:05 yes Mar 15 23:15:13 you can touch your apps as you build them Mar 15 23:15:22 ah ... i see. on N8x0? Mar 15 23:15:28 About package categories for extras-devel for diablo: Do libraries go into programming? Mar 15 23:15:36 you can do the same from your scratchbox as well, but it sounds like you have enough complications there Mar 15 23:15:39 yes Mar 15 23:16:06 thanks a bunch. i was going to port my iphone 3D engine to maemo. Mar 15 23:16:14 great :) Mar 15 23:16:19 and getting hesitated which is the best way. Mar 15 23:16:41 well i dont know the best way either lol Mar 15 23:16:49 lol. ok Mar 15 23:17:03 heres my work that i want to see in ogl: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMXp0Dg_UaY Mar 15 23:17:11 how's the Qt port on maemo 5? is it stable enough? Mar 15 23:17:15 theres a few other vids as well Mar 15 23:17:34 qt on the n810 is coming along nicely, i cant see it being worse on maemo 5 Mar 15 23:17:48 we have a couple of apps now and still obvious bugs to iron out Mar 15 23:18:09 wow really smooth. is that the same tablet i have here? :-p Mar 15 23:18:40 yeah, you can install a slightly older version (same speed just no zooming) its called liqbase :) Mar 15 23:18:48 my tablet will stuck even zoom in and zoom out. Mar 15 23:19:00 i see. gotta take a memo. Mar 15 23:19:15 lcuk, are you using qt default (maemo) theme on tablet? I found it almost impossible to use because of all the missing GUI lines, so I had to use style window Mar 15 23:19:37 sanchiii, don't ask me, im not a qt developer - poke lbt :) Mar 15 23:19:56 but style window sounds right because he mentioned css a few times Mar 15 23:20:07 * lbt pokes sanchiii pre-emptively Mar 15 23:20:44 * bbns wonders if anyone familiar with QGL Mar 15 23:20:46 jesus h i just nearly set light to my head and hand and keyboard and worst of all, my tablet Mar 15 23:21:36 is QGL a wrap up between OpenGL / OpenGL ES? Mar 15 23:21:54 * bbns is confused while diving his nose on the API manual. Mar 15 23:22:28 lcuk I once did that. Filled up a lighter on top of a big fridge. Gas went all over the place. .............. Then I tested the lighter..... Mar 15 23:22:53 this is a petrol zippo, first time ive filled it up in a couple of weeks Mar 15 23:23:41 luckily I don't smoke. I just wanted to make a WD-40 flamethrower.... Mar 15 23:24:09 heh Mar 15 23:24:13 sanchiii: I don't know why it does it Mar 15 23:24:26 it could be expecting a default style Mar 15 23:24:30 sanchiii, file a bug on the qt4 garage page Mar 15 23:24:48 I think the default style is that one, with few lines, Mar 15 23:29:39 lbt: i've allrety done that XD Mar 15 23:30:10 ? Mar 15 23:31:32 b-man16: ? Mar 15 23:33:38 i've made a flamethrower with starter fluid - kinda crazy Mar 15 23:34:07 that was tha last time i did that >< Mar 15 23:34:32 *the Mar 15 23:39:27 ah :) Mar 15 23:39:36 it was rather impressive. Mar 15 23:40:06 t-4 minutes Mar 15 23:46:25 I've made progress on my attempt to build an updated pidgin package (first time I try to build for maemo). "make" succeeded. Mar 15 23:46:47 the "dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot" now fails with dh_installdirs: dpkg-architecture failed - see http://maemo.pastey.net/110265 Mar 15 23:48:03 you did that inside scratchbox? Mar 15 23:50:13 i'm trying to build libpurple 2.5.5 myself Mar 15 23:53:01 till__, yes, inside scratchbox Mar 15 23:53:41 my host is fedora 10, i386, outside the scratchbox I don't have debian build stuff Mar 15 23:53:43 if you may send me your sourcecode i can try to compile it in my environment Mar 15 23:54:24 where do i find the "public SSH keys" section in garage account maintenance page? Mar 15 23:54:42 till__, are you trying to build pidgin, too? yes, I can upload my merged pidgin-2.5.5 tarball attempt Mar 15 23:54:57 would be great Mar 15 23:55:20 you have done all the hildon-stuff yet? Mar 16 00:01:18 till__, http://kuix.de/misc/maemo/pidgin/255/pidgin_2.5.5_kaie_test3.tar.gz Mar 16 00:01:23 till__, which hildon-stuff ? Mar 16 00:01:42 don't you have to replace gtk with hildon in order to get pidgin running on maemo? Mar 16 00:01:59 I followed http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/diablo/INSTALL.txt Mar 16 00:02:35 I did some merging based on original 2.5.1, 2.5.5 and maemo 2.5.1 source archives Mar 16 00:02:45 didn't try to understand the code Mar 16 00:03:11 yeah i read your bug report :) Mar 16 00:03:30 as far as i know you don't have gtk on the tablet Mar 16 00:05:00 not entirely replace Mar 16 00:05:17 gtk exists and native gtk apps run and work Mar 16 00:05:30 hildonization is just altering a few bits of that to be specifically tabletified Mar 16 00:05:44 till__, I used the maemo 2.5.1 source archive as a base. I produced a patch that has the differences from upstream 2.5.1 to upstream 2.5.5. I applied that to the working 2.5.1 snapshot. In addition I had to copy over some new images Mar 16 00:06:00 okay Mar 16 00:06:50 so hildon has the same commands as gtk Mar 16 00:06:54 there were some new #ifdef in the patch which did not apply cleanly. they disables a few functions calls based on some gtk version number Mar 16 00:07:24 i will try to build it, just have to test something with libpurple before :) Mar 16 00:07:27 I did not add those #ifdef s when merging Mar 16 00:08:01 till__, maybe you can simply extract that tarball, run the build command, and see if it succeeds on your system, or produces the same error Mar 16 00:08:25 till__, are you the owner of this bug report: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4183 Mar 16 00:09:02 nope i'm not registered on maemo yet Mar 16 00:24:22 kaie:there is one detail about pidgin Mar 16 00:24:44 kaie: normally, pidgin depends on a 20MB .deb with icons, sounds, and other data Mar 16 00:25:14 kaie: this dependency has to be removed because otherwise you waste a lot of precious / space Mar 16 00:25:59 replacing just lipurple did NOT work Mar 16 00:26:01 :/ Mar 16 00:26:10 "Due to the nature of SCP-620's properties, subject is not permitted to be within 500m (1,640 ft) of any polyhedral die." Mar 16 00:50:43 wb johnx :) Mar 16 01:09:06 kaie i had no luck until now Mar 16 01:09:19 till__, what happens when you try to build? Mar 16 01:09:29 a lot of dependencies Mar 16 01:09:35 tried to tweak the build process **** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Mar 16 02:59:57 2009