**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Mar 16 02:59:57 2009 Mar 16 03:28:16 Question: I have a N810 with the newest OS/update. I've been trying to use the chat application to send text messages. This is my second N810 (manufacturing defect on the first) and it worked on the original. Now when I try to send an IM\Chat I get the message "No permission for this operation" and the messages don't send. Any ideas? Mar 16 03:28:46 oops, should be IM\Text Mar 16 05:16:13 ipndrmath? Mar 16 07:33:34 anybody kindly tells me whereis microb-engine buglist? Mar 16 07:34:38 I saw bug info in microb-engine chagelog like :this NB#100612 Browser crash while surfing the web Mar 16 07:35:34 but i dont know where bugs are reported Mar 16 07:36:19 somebody knows the answer,please hlep Mar 16 07:40:05 to me disabling flash components helped browsing a bit Mar 16 07:40:34 probably this: https://bugs.maemo.org/buglist.cgi?quicksearch=microb Mar 16 07:49:44 ShadowJK:no,not there. max bugid there is 3996 Mar 16 07:50:18 Oh... I heard Nokia has their own internal bugtracker Mar 16 07:52:38 internal?close to non nokia developer,it's so bad Mar 16 07:55:43 yan: you're free to use the maemo one to file your own Mar 16 07:56:17 the internal is probably for those who have been found in pre-release stage or similar Mar 16 07:56:23 s/who/which/ Mar 16 07:56:23 Myrtti meant: the internal is probably for those which have been found in pre-release stage or similar Mar 16 07:56:43 whee, a bot that's actually useful Mar 16 07:57:45 ok,thanks all .i get it Mar 16 08:00:26 re Mar 16 08:25:23 good moaning Mar 16 08:25:33 morning aquatix Mar 16 08:27:39 yan: maybe the "alias int-XXXXX" on bugs.maemo refers to the internal numbers Mar 16 08:32:07 * Stskeeps sighs Mar 16 08:32:23 * Myrtti pats Stskeeps Mar 16 08:32:27 it'll be all right. Mar 16 08:32:32 I promise. Mar 16 08:32:36 Here, have some cake. Mar 16 08:32:52 hehe, yeah, probably :) just bugged at my release image of mer 0.10 refusing to boot Mar 16 08:34:37 don't worry dear. Mar 16 08:34:50 I broke the script I've been doing totally on Saturday Mar 16 08:35:02 now it doesn't do any of the things it did last week Mar 16 08:44:14 Myrtti: ah, gotta love when that happens Mar 16 08:47:56 I think this apparatus here is called "a vacuum cleaner" Mar 16 08:48:03 I wonder if I can still operate it Mar 16 08:48:26 i was astonished to find my dorm apartment came with vacuum cleaner, heh Mar 16 08:48:46 I *hate* vacuuming Mar 16 08:48:52 get a roomba? :P Mar 16 08:48:53 Morning, all Mar 16 08:49:07 if I could be arsed to sweep the floors every week, I wouldn't need a vacuum cleaner Mar 16 08:49:19 Stskeeps: my plan is to get a man who doesn't mind doing the vacuuming Mar 16 08:49:36 get a robot to vacuum Mar 16 08:50:10 then I can just smack his bum and say "slave, vacuum". At this time it looks like he's intrested in home automation, so it just might be that he'll configure the system to use a $ROBOT Mar 16 08:50:28 i wonder if i can convince my gf to a roomba Mar 16 08:50:30 just as long as I don't have to strain myself with the whole idea of vacuuming Mar 16 08:50:38 so far she's up for the pervasive computing-utilizing apartment Mar 16 08:51:30 vacuuming itself isn't that bad, it's just utterly frustrating in a 34m² apartment with a lowsy non-industry grade apartment Mar 16 08:52:12 a) the apartment is too small to actually need vacuuming b) vacuuming with a bad vacuum cleaner is bad Mar 16 09:09:07 Yan: you really don't want to see the internal bug tracker Mar 16 09:09:31 I'm in a meeting w/ perhaps two dozen people where qa is describing how bad it is Mar 16 09:09:41 hi Mar 16 09:09:47 eHlo Mar 16 09:10:07 heh Mar 16 09:10:30 aNdre: really Mar 16 09:11:42 The contents or the tracker? :-) Mar 16 09:11:54 both can be fun, i can assure :-P Mar 16 09:12:14 yan: if you file a bug in bugs.maemo, andre can share it w/ the internal one for you Mar 16 09:12:25 yupp Mar 16 09:12:40 Shadow: we've totally botched the organization and behaviors Mar 16 09:12:56 not to mention "a bug's life" Mar 16 09:13:13 someone really needs to come up with a self-aware bug tracking system Mar 16 09:13:53 "you're stupid, your bug is stupid. INVALID" Mar 16 09:14:05 then again Mar 16 09:14:27 being bugtracker for any given project will lead the bugtracker AI to develop into skynet, bent on getting rid of humanity.. Mar 16 09:14:40 My favourite bug had changed since I last looked at it a few months ago, now there was a comment that you are busy running in circles :) Mar 16 09:14:57 We are! Mar 16 09:15:05 Big circles! Mar 16 09:15:11 ah, accelerometer tests ;) Mar 16 09:15:21 * timelE61i rotffl Mar 16 09:15:30 :) Mar 16 09:19:52 mmm, what kind of accuracy and/or resolution do those things have anyway Mar 16 09:20:09 no clue Mar 16 09:20:17 We don't use them :) Mar 16 09:20:39 ShadowJK: if it's the typical nokia ones, they're not bad Mar 16 09:20:41 afaik Mar 16 09:21:18 As long as you're moving. Mar 16 09:21:42 * Stskeeps notes his beagle has fried his SD card. Mar 16 09:21:55 Bugs.maemo claims i've filed >150 bugs Mar 16 09:22:08 * timelE61i works for nokia Mar 16 09:24:12 I'd want to try augment GPS data with it to make an analog-looking speedometer.. use acceleration data in between the gps updates Mar 16 09:26:37 Well, GPS isn't terribly accurate when you aren't moving, either. Mar 16 09:26:43 Though at least its error is bounded. Mar 16 09:26:54 a quick query shows i've filed 3x as many bugs externally as internally... Mar 16 09:27:13 But yeah, slap a Kalman filter on them and you'd do alright. Mar 16 09:27:43 something's wrong w/ that query, but... Mar 16 09:30:08 good morning Mar 16 09:33:21 morning Mar 16 09:33:33 where is our debmaster? Mar 16 09:34:11 there is a package (graphviz) on extras-devel which conflicts with libtool Mar 16 09:34:53 heh, just as long as you don't upload a libtool package Mar 16 09:34:58 that'd break quite a bit of things :) Mar 16 09:37:12 * Myrtti huggles her new Pocket Reference Mar 16 09:37:26 what does it reference? Mar 16 09:37:35 sed/awk ♥ Mar 16 09:37:39 *snif* Mar 16 09:45:26 hm, iTT is hosed Mar 16 09:48:11 Anyone using the latest mCalendar? Mar 16 09:49:51 clutter question: if the entire scene has to be constructed before starting, what happens with infinite scrolling - when i move an object out of the screen and expose new areas i want to (as i do in liqbase) just extend and create new elements, am i reading the docs wrong or is this impossible Mar 16 10:00:35 Stskeeps, where are we gonna discuss our internet tables and chairs :'( Mar 16 10:01:28 lcuk: the objects that are clipped entirely out of the scrolling area are discarded; objects partially out of display area are clipped Mar 16 10:02:10 ah, you're talking about Clutter Mar 16 10:03:02 zap - but i can currently scroll a calendar view +=however far i want - as required it creates new week "actors" and fills them from the database, you are not telling me i need to preload the entire calendar before coming on screen are you? Mar 16 10:03:38 well, I'm not common with clutter... sorry for noise :) Mar 16 10:03:39 -database +datasource Mar 16 10:03:46 * zap reads clutter docs Mar 16 10:04:19 heh zap, thats the stage im at, but i cant find anything that dynamically adds - it so far expects everything to exist - theres even warnings about it Mar 16 10:05:07 isn't ClutterChildMeta designed for tracking unloaded actors? Mar 16 10:05:12 its a gl "scene" and im assuming will be like a game level, where the whole block of level exists Mar 16 10:05:24 zap, its not unloading, its adding new ones Mar 16 10:06:03 sometimes i can preprepare everything i have to do, but sometimes its impossible due to constraints Mar 16 10:06:12 by the way, what platform you're developing for with clutter? Mar 16 10:06:30 murrayc, could you possibly clarify my issue when you have 5 minutes please :) Mar 16 10:08:13 Stskeeps: the funny thing is that it got hosed while I was writing a long reply - lucky me the browser kept it when getting back from the 500 error Mar 16 10:08:35 zap - maemo 5 of course. im just reevaluating the thinking i started over christmas, i've found out the later version was released which has support for line drawing (albeit pango or tango or whatever the gobject stuff is) so i should be able to get sketches in, but the preloading everything before starting is worrying me Mar 16 10:08:52 cool... do you have a dev board? Mar 16 10:08:56 lol qgil, you overloaded the server :P Mar 16 10:09:02 no zap Mar 16 10:09:06 qgil: yeah, nothing angers me more than when i lose a big chunk of text in a form and then it refuses to submit Mar 16 10:09:11 lcuk: you should really get a beagleboard.. Mar 16 10:09:17 clutter is compilable directly on ubuntu and its in the alpha devkit Mar 16 10:09:23 is clutter designed only for 2D scenes? Mar 16 10:09:26 but a beagle has no touchscreen Mar 16 10:09:42 essentially zap yeah Mar 16 10:09:42 true, and i don't suppose you have a hdmi + usb touchscreen Mar 16 10:09:48 ++cost Mar 16 10:10:02 im hopeful one will drop out of the sky soon though :) Mar 16 10:10:50 zap, i should be able to do all the things liqbase did but also add rotation (for what its worth i do quite well without it :D) Mar 16 10:11:21 so im hoping to write my stuff and on m5 at least use clutter to do my rendering Mar 16 10:11:33 whoa, even shader support Mar 16 10:11:53 yeah theres nice stuff, but i need to solve whether i can dynamically add new elements :) Mar 16 10:12:38 there we go... Mar 16 10:12:45 anyway, dayjob calls Mar 16 10:12:46 * jaem_ forgot to stop his Quassel Core Server Mar 16 10:13:53 regarding the Council elections, what are we actually for people for? Mar 16 10:14:04 is it just general council membership, or positions? Mar 16 10:14:17 general council membership Mar 16 10:14:36 okay - I missed the referendum, so I'm making sure I vote in this Mar 16 10:16:05 * Stskeeps voted accordingly with his belief in those people pushing the maemo platform and encouraging the activation of the community beyond whining Mar 16 10:16:09 :P Mar 16 10:16:19 indeed Mar 16 10:16:30 jaem, theres a problem, one of the questions on the referendum was "should we let jaem vote?" Mar 16 10:16:44 lcuk: I'm sure there was ;) Mar 16 10:16:52 :D Mar 16 10:17:23 by the way... /me is annoyed. I/he was going to switch nicks to Ffejery, to go with the Blag, but someone on Freenode got it before me :( Mar 16 10:17:45 also, one of my friends pointed out that Ffejery is an extremely awkward word in print Mar 16 10:19:31 "To confirm this vote, please continue to the next step. To modify your choice, hit the "Back" button in your browser." Mar 16 10:19:44 finally, a web app that doesn't break when you hit the Back button! Mar 16 10:19:57 is it really that hard? Mar 16 10:21:30 did you folks hear about the new "Star Wars"/SDI Program? Mar 16 10:21:42 new? isn't it just the same old? Mar 16 10:21:42 :P Mar 16 10:21:45 no Mar 16 10:21:57 this time, it's designed to shoot down mosquitos Mar 16 10:22:08 hah Mar 16 10:22:11 and it still can't hit? Mar 16 10:22:12 :P Mar 16 10:22:22 * Pavlov puts on his tin foil hat Mar 16 10:22:25 and the lead scientist worked with Edward Teller Mar 16 10:22:36 Pavlov: that will only reflect the laser Mar 16 10:22:46 and this isn't the laser-based CIWS thing? Mar 16 10:22:50 apparently it's able to distinguish male from female mosquitos Mar 16 10:23:01 although, as they pointed out, they'll probably just kill them all Mar 16 10:23:04 CIWS? Mar 16 10:23:17 close in weapons system Mar 16 10:23:18 the article: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123680870885500701.html Mar 16 10:23:31 like to shoot down incoming artillery and mortar shells Mar 16 10:23:45 they're using mostly non-lethal targeting lasers now, with computer-enabled explosion sound effects Mar 16 10:23:58 but they have demo videos of mosquitos bursting into flame in midair Mar 16 10:24:13 jaem: best statement ever.. Mar 16 10:24:14 it all sounds absurd, but I myself had that idea several years back, as did a friend Mar 16 10:24:33 Stskeeps: :D Mar 16 10:24:52 * ShadowJK wonders if the chinese are still selling highpower lasers on ebay Mar 16 10:25:29 ShadowJK: if you're in the US (or have another way of getting it across the border), Goldmine Electronics is selling surplus Erbium laser rods Mar 16 10:25:38 for cheap! Mar 16 10:26:08 * thopiekar is prepairing a "cheat of paper" for his next test.. :P Mar 16 10:26:11 cu Mar 16 10:26:45 I was thinking of the overclocked laser pointer variety :) Mar 16 10:27:06 they pop balloons but that's pretty much it Mar 16 10:27:12 ah. Well, the ones DX sells apparently are made so poorly that the "200mW" is mostly IR Mar 16 10:27:22 Btw - what will prevent fremantle from running on N8*'s? Mar 16 10:27:32 rmt_: lack of 3d acceleration, simple as that Mar 16 10:27:33 rmt_: zombie hordes Mar 16 10:27:38 darn - beat me to it Mar 16 10:27:41 ;-) Mar 16 10:27:43 rmt_, the opengl interface might put a bit of a dampner on it Mar 16 10:27:45 and after seeing the initial UI design, i don't blame them Mar 16 10:28:00 lcuk: they had zombie games before OpenGL... Mar 16 10:28:03 heh Mar 16 10:28:19 we should implement Doom as the Hildon Desktop. Mar 16 10:28:27 jaem, liqbase exists on n810, i believe its been described as "liqbase, who the fuck needs opengl" Mar 16 10:28:37 Stskeeps: I agree... I wish we had some recent feedback on that issue Mar 16 10:28:45 * lcuk wonders who said that Mar 16 10:28:46 lcuk: who described it as that? You? Mar 16 10:28:53 that said, it is quite awesome Mar 16 10:28:54 Lol Mar 16 10:28:56 I was very impressed Mar 16 10:29:18 Okay.. only the 3d aspect. I imagine than it would then be possible to have software OpenGL & have a less demanding theme with clutter (I assume it's using clutter)? Mar 16 10:29:23 no jaem, it was a comment i accidentally removed on youtube from Stskeeps whilst trying to mod it up Mar 16 10:29:26 lcuk: when do i get liqbase for my 770? Mar 16 10:29:45 timelE61i: slightly sooner than you get OpenGL? Mar 16 10:29:52 hehe Mar 16 10:29:59 timelE61i, ill send you a small tiny simple xv test application, if you can get that working liqbase will follow Mar 16 10:30:05 brb Mar 16 10:30:06 I have fremantle devices :) Mar 16 10:30:19 timelE61i: I hate you :P Mar 16 10:30:32 I didn't say they work ;) Mar 16 10:31:42 timelE61i, What do you mean? You are Nokioid? Mar 16 10:31:58 isn't it Nokian? :P Mar 16 10:32:10 yes Mar 16 10:32:27 and timelE61i's normal hostname would give that impression Mar 16 10:32:32 i think i said that a few hours ago, for the nth time Mar 16 10:32:44 Native finnish speakers are Nokians, Swedish Nokioids.. :) Mar 16 10:33:24 and non natives are just stupid/crazy Mar 16 10:33:25 ? Mar 16 10:33:53 Nokrazies? Mar 16 10:34:00 Non-alcoholics, I think is the term you're looking for. Mar 16 10:34:11 it applies Mar 16 10:34:15 * timelE61i doesn't drink Mar 16 10:34:27 you know, I've always wondered where the opening and similar tags are :P Mar 16 10:34:43 jaem: auto opened at /join Mar 16 10:35:05 It's like implicit tags in html Mar 16 10:35:56 So, you have insight into the release schedule & expected technology in the next device? Am I going to regret my decision to purchase the N810 (due to new release) in < 3 months? Mar 16 10:36:20 * timelE61i shrugs Mar 16 10:36:22 InternetTabletTalk had an internal server error on my thread.. lol XD Mar 16 10:36:30 if the n810 is cheap, i'd buy it Mar 16 10:36:39 * rmt_ analyses timelE61i's shrug carefully. ;-) Mar 16 10:36:42 $220 is not bad at all Mar 16 10:36:48 * timelE61i shrugs often Mar 16 10:36:58 €230's not too bad for europe, I think. Mar 16 10:37:00 but from the sounds of the hardware of the RX-51, I'm somewhat regretful Mar 16 10:37:03 check the logs Mar 16 10:37:20 not because the N810 is bad, but because my few quibbles look to be solved in the new tablet Mar 16 10:37:25 oh well Mar 16 10:38:01 whats solved? Mar 16 10:38:02 next few hundred available dollars will likely go either into a camera, beagleboard, or buying my friend's old desktop Mar 16 10:38:57 lcuk: mainly beefier proc, OpenGL, and a couple of minor things that I forget Mar 16 10:39:06 heh Mar 16 10:39:18 Mer/Ubuntu will fix a few other annoyances, from the sounds of things Mar 16 10:39:29 but the N810 is quite nice, overall Mar 16 10:39:29 * b-man thinks that his project thread has gotten so popular that it has actually crashed ITT 0_0 Mar 16 10:39:36 i could give you a beefier proc and opengl now, but without apps to run on them its futile isnt it Mar 16 10:40:03 lcuk: of course, but 400MHz is a little underpowered for some things, that's all Mar 16 10:40:11 personally atm, given the choice of an n810 or next, i'd rather the n810 :) Mar 16 10:40:13 * lcuk doesnt think so Mar 16 10:40:14 but it's fine for most of what I do Mar 16 10:40:41 timelE61i, but what if the new one could run diablo without issue? Mar 16 10:40:41 timelE61i: *raises an eyebrow and wonders what's behind that* Mar 16 10:42:03 lCuk: i can't :( Mar 16 10:42:10 Can you compile new kernels for the N810 without losing functionality? Are (any) binary blobs forward compatible? (ie. just firmware) Mar 16 10:46:08 internettablettalk.com seems to be down right now Mar 16 10:47:00 yes indeed Mar 16 10:47:29 * b-man16 might know whu :P Mar 16 10:47:33 *why Mar 16 10:48:11 b-man, could you open another chan, your head has expanded to fill this one :P Mar 16 10:48:23 lol Mar 16 10:49:46 does anyone know anything about firmware/SDKs for CSR chipsets? Mar 16 10:50:02 The whole system sounds very closed Mar 16 10:50:52 damn haxors Mar 16 10:51:10 sisto: ? Mar 16 10:51:15 stop messing with my internets Mar 16 10:51:31 jaem_afk: internettablettalk.com is down Mar 16 10:51:51 sisto: oh sorry... I ejected the Internets a minute ago Mar 16 10:52:02 and the tray is jammed Mar 16 10:52:04 oops Mar 16 10:52:16 just don't drop it Mar 16 10:52:44 well, some of the bits fell onto the floor already Mar 16 10:52:47 we'll send a support crew to fix the jam Mar 16 10:52:54 but I don't think they were important Mar 16 10:53:05 was it the porn? Mar 16 10:53:08 lol Mar 16 10:53:13 I think so Mar 16 10:53:18 probably for the best Mar 16 10:53:21 we are doomed Mar 16 10:53:25 indeed Mar 16 10:53:43 * jaem_N810 sweeps up the bits, and puts them in the bitbucket Mar 16 10:53:43 XD Mar 16 10:53:56 * jaem_N810 whistles Mar 16 10:54:15 no internet tech has ever taken off before a use for porn was discovered Mar 16 10:54:16 how do i shutdown ubuntu from a console window? Mar 16 10:54:27 a guess: shutdown -h now Mar 16 10:54:31 ShadowJK: IRC? Mar 16 10:54:32 yup Mar 16 10:54:33 oh wait Mar 16 10:54:37 :P Mar 16 10:54:42 * b-man16 leaves for school Mar 16 10:54:54 oh right... school Mar 16 10:54:56 thx shadow Mar 16 10:55:02 that's in... 5 hours... or so Mar 16 10:55:40 oh no, they're dropping like flies :( Mar 16 10:55:53 * jaem_N810 recharges the laser Mar 16 10:55:57 have you tried WD40 on that stuck drive Mar 16 10:56:05 not me! i was shutting my x41 down Mar 16 10:56:22 lcuk: normally, ubuntu also provides the command 'poweroff' Mar 16 10:56:23 ShadowJK: well, WD50 didn't work, so I didn't bother Mar 16 10:56:41 maybe I'll try some un-duct-tape Mar 16 10:56:47 ElPollo, the other worked :) Mar 16 10:57:02 I wish we had duct tape at work Mar 16 10:57:14 speaking of, does anyone know if you can get half-width rolls of duct tape? the big ones don't fit in my cargo pockets well Mar 16 10:57:32 electrical tape fits fine, but its uses are limited Mar 16 10:57:55 jaem_N810, the factory tried to cut duct tape down the middle but the universe threatened to implode so they stopped Mar 16 10:58:14 was that a duct-tape mobius strip? Mar 16 10:58:26 question: does anyone actually use duct tape for repairing ducts? Mar 16 10:58:38 I used to fix a duck Mar 16 10:58:54 we dont want to know about your animal antics Mar 16 10:58:56 it's head had fallen off Mar 16 10:59:42 I'd never have thought to use duct tape for repairing ducts... Mar 16 11:00:05 according to Wikipedia, it was "deemed ineffective" for that purpose Mar 16 11:00:08 shotguns and torches Mar 16 11:00:20 and pitchforks Mar 16 11:00:26 what are we rioting for? Mar 16 11:00:36 or against? Mar 16 11:00:42 serenity now! Mar 16 11:00:46 errr fremantle now! Mar 16 11:00:49 I don't care - lynch mobs are fun Mar 16 11:00:57 who's getting hanged? Mar 16 11:01:02 no1 Mar 16 11:01:12 this no1 must be a very mean person Mar 16 11:01:26 that reminds me, its nearly lynchtime, should i have a jacket potato again? Mar 16 11:01:28 can it be someone in TI's IP department? Mar 16 11:02:01 a good hanging always helps with licensing issues Mar 16 11:03:24 from Wikipedia: "In a 2001 NASA manual for spaceflight operations aboard the International Space Station, duct tape is even called for in case of "acute psychosis" during a space mission; NASA procedures call for the use of duct tape to restrain the affected astronaut" Mar 16 11:03:25 :S Mar 16 11:03:41 bbl Mar 16 11:03:49 mwhahah http://www.hs.fi/fingerpori/1135244246916 Mar 16 11:05:00 Myrtti: XD Mar 16 11:05:52 rmt_: yes, regarding binary blobs, there's stlc45xx these days Mar 16 11:06:02 rmt_: but someone needs to step up and forward port some drivers Mar 16 11:07:49 (there's a GSoC project on it) Mar 16 11:17:40 lcuk: What "issue"? Mar 16 11:21:50 Stskeeps, woo, thanks. Mar 16 11:22:16 I'm not really a driver type, but if the itch is annoying enough, I make do. ;) Mar 16 11:26:35 i'm rather gah-ish that noone bothered before, - i discovered it was fairly trivial to forward port umac.ko Mar 16 11:26:48 and cx3110x.ko Mar 16 11:27:34 Hmm Mar 16 11:27:43 which means if people just bothered to sit down and hack a bit at things instead of complaining of closed source wifi :) Mar 16 11:30:13 'lo VDVsx Mar 16 11:30:22 VDVsx: just keeping track, you had a freerunner too / was interested in that area? Mar 16 11:31:06 Stskeeps: hehe, can I quote you :) Mar 16 11:31:38 suihkulokki: regarding the wifi thing? yes, sometimes i'm a bit disappointed noone even bothered to take the time to just sit down and play some simple tricks :P Mar 16 11:31:55 What's OS2008's kernel version? Mar 16 11:32:02 2.6.21-omap1 i think Mar 16 11:32:12 Stskeeps, I'm interested, but don't know if I will have time for something, in the middle/end of this week I will talk to you :) Mar 16 11:32:25 VDVsx: alright - just keeping track :) Mar 16 11:32:33 I have some pending stuff in my life right now :) Mar 16 11:32:41 night, folks Mar 16 11:32:54 i have a 0.10 release today and it's going craptaculary unwell :) Mar 16 11:34:26 suihkulokki: one exception though - poky linux got it right, and realized you could just relink umac.ko :P Mar 16 11:37:00 Lead roof thief eyeballed targets on Google Earth Mar 16 11:37:03 Heya Sts Mar 16 11:37:08 'lo RST38h Mar 16 11:37:22 we have a problem, internettablettalk is down, I get a 500 error Mar 16 11:37:28 Heh, iTT server-errored Mar 16 11:37:37 xnt: yeah, so it goes Mar 16 11:38:00 "2nd Generation of 'Microsoft Surface' Coming in 2-3 Years" Mar 16 11:38:05 .. 2-3 years? Mar 16 11:38:08 jesus :P Mar 16 11:38:21 Is anybody using 1st generation? Mar 16 11:38:26 good question Mar 16 11:38:36 lol Mar 16 11:39:47 Arora is the best browser for Maemo after Tear :P Mar 16 11:40:04 Is there a hope for Mer-port? Mar 16 11:40:23 with QT coming? yeah Mar 16 11:41:25 it has no problem with some forums that Tear is unable to handle... Mar 16 11:41:52 QtWebKit seems to be better than the GTK one Mar 16 11:44:01 RST38h: iirc, there are a chain of hotels that use them, and also t-mobile or some other mobile operator in select stores... Mar 16 11:44:33 think it was kinda used in The Day The Earth Stood Still too Mar 16 11:44:35 .. moviewise Mar 16 11:45:04 oh, and didnt nbc use it during the recent election? Mar 16 11:46:09 I played a little bit with surface in a expo :P Mar 16 11:47:17 zoiks, 12,5gb/s wireless?! Mar 16 11:47:47 are there plans to include Telepathy / Empathy in Mer? Mar 16 11:48:09 if it builds, why not? :P Mar 16 11:48:29 yeah, but on default images so it comes with IM functionality "batteries included" :) Mar 16 11:48:35 *nod* Mar 16 11:48:50 also, we'd be interested in any tweaks to Empathy to make it more mobile / touch friendly Mar 16 11:49:09 Moblin forked it and hacked at it incoherently for a while, and made Moblin Chat Mar 16 11:49:10 t_s_io: that makes two of them :) Mar 16 11:49:12 Stskeeps, do you already looked at python-efl for mer ? Mar 16 11:49:13 * rmt_ taps his foot impatiently as he wonders how long it takes for a DHL person to drive direct from DHL's Milan depot to his doorstep with his N810.. he also better be smiling when he gets here. Mar 16 11:49:21 VDVsx: we have e17 now so it might be easier Mar 16 11:49:40 Robot101: well, i guess the goal is a 1.0 that is day to day usable and with as much OSS as fittable in the image :P Mar 16 11:49:42 but I think that was found to be an embarrasment and removed from their servers :P Mar 16 11:49:59 Robot101: but yes, it's obviously interesting Mar 16 11:50:21 right now i'm considering to skip 0.10 release though, as everything possible has gone wrong so far for it :) Mar 16 11:50:32 hello, anyone know where to get the sources of the filemanager? Mar 16 11:50:44 b0unc3: closed source, differentation Mar 16 11:50:59 b0unc3, knock on nokias door and ask them nicely Mar 16 11:51:06 :) Mar 16 11:51:09 or make a open source rewrite in python Mar 16 11:51:12 can't be that difficult. Mar 16 11:51:21 heh Mar 16 11:51:40 i suggest hacking on gpe file manager instead... Mar 16 11:51:50 or that Mar 16 11:51:58 make sure you use something based on gvfs Mar 16 11:52:21 diablo has some weird offspring of gnomevfs and dbus and a lot of crack Mar 16 11:52:22 Hmmm...Looks like RX-51 will have RGB components rearranged Mar 16 11:52:25 best avoid :) Mar 16 11:52:35 Unless that SDK emulator is just screwed up of course Mar 16 11:52:43 RST38h, it is Mar 16 11:52:45 RST38h: I think it might be intentional Mar 16 11:52:52 RST38h: i think people might simply not be running Xephyr with bpp 32.. Mar 16 11:53:07 yea, that is my guess as well - broken xephyr config Mar 16 11:53:20 RST38h: Dark theme, dark icons would look silly. I can easily imagine someone saying "let's make Gtk render icons inverse to make them look right" ;-) Mar 16 11:54:01 Then again, dark themes usually look good in one or two carefully selected screenshots, but I've yet to see them applied well to any existing Linux app (especially Gtk+) Mar 16 11:54:10 lcuk: I have groked clutter Mar 16 11:54:33 lcuk: have you found a solution for your problem yet? Mar 16 11:55:01 ive not looked, it was idle banter but ive had a nod that it should be possible, so ill carry on looking later Mar 16 11:55:30 Jaffa:Well, I think greyish black for the main ui, blue (to keep in with the wallpaper/logo) for a selected item, and white icons. Mar 16 11:56:51 lcuk: as far as I understand you just have to create your own actor class, which contains a ClutterActor inside. When your actor gets out of the screen, you destroy the ClutterActor and remove it from scene; when it gets in you create it back Mar 16 11:57:06 actor motion is under your control anyway Mar 16 11:59:06 zap, good i think, i would hate to use it for a game and have to precreate all the bullets i might need for the lifetime of the entire game ;) Mar 16 11:59:55 that would be the case if you would use only the classes provided by Clutter, but for any more or less complex app you'll have your own class hierarchy anyway, Clutter would be used just for display Mar 16 11:59:58 but ill do some digging and try spawning new stuff until the cows come home Mar 16 12:00:17 http://www.engadget.com/2009/03/15/ubuntu-9-04-ported-to-nokias-n8x0-internet-tablets/ ;-) Mar 16 12:00:20 ,, Mar 16 12:00:24 mmm even Mar 16 12:00:26 yes, we saw Mar 16 12:01:36 .. so they have WiFi working fine too, then.. Mar 16 12:01:57 b-man's ubuntu is basically mer without the hildon and gtk pieces Mar 16 12:02:32 zap, ill have to look properly, something about that doesnt sound quite right - at the moment my head is telling me its like the difference between (i think) retained mode and ??direct mode directx/opengl stuff Mar 16 12:03:04 from a technical point of view it's a dead-end project, it's going to get to a point where people demand proper power saving and traditional desktop/laptop systems fails at that, hence the mer project Mar 16 12:03:05 The dialog button furor is funny. Mar 16 12:03:08 well, the ultimate anwer would be from clutter devs, if there's a channel for it Mar 16 12:03:13 Some people are just too set in their ways. Mar 16 12:03:25 yeah zap there is, but i need to formulate my questions first Mar 16 12:03:27 GeneralAntilles: it 500ed iTT? :P Mar 16 12:04:02 GeneralAntilles, do one thing: in the proper device documentation and in walkthroughs, describe how to cancel a dialog Mar 16 12:04:23 The UI bitching and moaning is interesting coming from people who haven't held a proper device with the full UI. Mar 16 12:04:24 at present it is "click the cancel button if its not right" Mar 16 12:04:40 I'm inclined to give the people with the full UI and proper devices at least some small benefit of the doubt. Mar 16 12:04:42 tell me properly how its done in REAL documentation Mar 16 12:04:55 or how you explain to your mum on the phone Mar 16 12:05:45 I mean, basically it's the exact same method Canola uses Mar 16 12:05:47 lack of a distinct cancel option is a problem. and especially so when there is a large blank area sitting there Mar 16 12:05:52 and nobody really seems to have a problem with that. Mar 16 12:05:56 no, not basically - document how to do it Mar 16 12:06:05 this is a consumer device Mar 16 12:06:11 lcuk, no, lack of a distinct cancel button is a problem to people who are set in their ways. Mar 16 12:06:11 I like clutter, its small, nice and powerful Mar 16 12:06:27 You expect a Cancel button because you've been using computers too long. Mar 16 12:06:33 Hahah Mar 16 12:06:42 That doesn't necessarily mean having one is better or worse. Mar 16 12:06:42 Or not long enough ;) Mar 16 12:07:01 Anyway, the documentation will come when the SDK is actually stable, not before. Mar 16 12:07:15 and it's not _my_ job to document it, so don't bitch at me. :) Mar 16 12:07:41 but if you dont think about docentation now you get there and every singe time you are documenting the process people WILL get it wrong and explain it in different ways and fuck up Mar 16 12:07:53 "click on the text thats not the dialog" Mar 16 12:07:55 Is there a release date for the new device yet? Mar 16 12:08:02 Presumably Q4 this year? Mar 16 12:08:15 lcuk, why are you assuming Nokia isn't thinking about documentation? Mar 16 12:08:19 alterego, waaaay earlier. Mar 16 12:08:23 Really? Mar 16 12:08:31 I'd say July at the outside. Mar 16 12:08:34 lol Mar 16 12:08:37 Nice. Mar 16 12:08:47 But then, you know what Nokia releases are like ;) Mar 16 12:09:27 I also swore that those leaked N810 shots were a cellular E- or N- series device up until the day it was announced. ;) Mar 16 12:10:08 But, if you consider that we're getting a beta SDK somewhere between this month and May Mar 16 12:10:24 Yeah, Mar 16 12:11:15 what new device Mar 16 12:12:02 http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS9093153240.html http://maemo.org/community/council/community_highlights_for_december_2008-part_i-january_2009-part_ii/ Mar 16 12:12:09 ~RX-51 is http://maemo.org/community/council/community_highlights_for_december_2008-part_i-january_2009-part_ii/ Mar 16 12:12:11 ...but rx-51 is already something else... Mar 16 12:12:16 ~rx-51 Mar 16 12:12:17 hmm... rx-51 is http://maemo.org/community/council/community_highlights_for_december_2008-part_i-january_2009-part_ii/ http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS9093153240.html Mar 16 12:12:24 Guess I already set that. . . . Mar 16 12:13:30 hEh Mar 16 12:13:48 ah that one Mar 16 12:13:52 lcuk: how stubborn you are with this Cancel button Mar 16 12:14:07 as sid somewhere, I hadn't even realized there were not cancel buttons anymore Mar 16 12:14:10 until reading ITt Mar 16 12:14:28 I was already clicking outside of the dialogs to get rid of them Mar 16 12:14:41 without reading any documentation, nor getting a UI designer sitting next to me Mar 16 12:14:54 heh Mar 16 12:15:02 where is this rx-51 name gotten from Mar 16 12:15:23 cmug, kernels. Mar 16 12:15:32 ok Mar 16 12:15:51 cmug, it's the other model number, RX-34, RX-44, RX-48, etc. Mar 16 12:16:27 There might also be an RX-71, but that one's like Fight Club. ;) Mar 16 12:16:30 ok Mar 16 12:16:49 They come from random number generators :) Mar 16 12:17:08 Heh Mar 16 12:17:23 it's a galaxy that was discovered right before the meeting took place ;) Mar 16 12:17:25 I'm more inclined to use Nokia inhouse project names Mar 16 12:17:36 Sometimes random letter generators (770, *n*800) Mar 16 12:18:08 RX-71 is the Maemo-based smartphone! Mar 16 12:18:11 * RST38h hides quickly Mar 16 12:18:11 Cmug: the rx-51 cames from nokia... Mar 16 12:18:30 s/cames/came/ Mar 16 12:18:30 timelE61i meant: Cmug: the rx-51 came from nokia... Mar 16 12:18:33 timelE61i, ok Mar 16 12:18:34 * timelE61i sighs Mar 16 12:19:00 I can't discuss this topic further ;-) Mar 16 12:19:28 it might not exist, of course, but that's a different problem Mar 16 12:24:53 qgil, i am a pessamistic coder, i anticapte things going wrong and clicking the wrong things and i talk to people every day who go to the wrong places and cancelling is a very specific thing that you do not want to get wrong Mar 16 12:27:10 lcuk, yeah, but now the cancel button is 10 times bigger. Mar 16 12:27:11 I remember reading about a study that people blindly press cancel or ok and have to go through the process all over again. I think the study suggested random placement of the accept/decline buttons. Mar 16 12:27:54 10 times bigger but 10 times harder to explain Mar 16 12:28:11 lcuk, so you seem to think. Mar 16 12:28:25 But Nokia's point of view seems to be backed up by usability tests with real users. Mar 16 12:28:42 You think that just because you're used to seeing cancel buttons. Mar 16 12:28:53 gan you have never supported anyone on computer systems over the phone, you cannot simply tell people to click outside the box to cancel it Mar 16 12:28:55 But not everybody has been trained to a certain thing. Mar 16 12:29:07 lcuk, what do you know about who and what I've supported? Mar 16 12:29:10 Ok, all, I have got a suggestion Mar 16 12:29:17 i talk to customers every day who are not computer users and i would dread to have to tell them that Mar 16 12:29:18 Heh Mar 16 12:29:18 Cancel action by turning the device over. Mar 16 12:29:25 =) Mar 16 12:29:31 :) Mar 16 12:29:34 I like that Mar 16 12:29:37 Or a quick shake Mar 16 12:29:46 Like you do when you get mad. Mar 16 12:29:46 hehehe Mar 16 12:29:55 * alterego shakes device "NO I DON'T WANT TO DO THAT!" Mar 16 12:29:58 * Jaffa doesn't really buy the "you just expect one as you've been using computers too long" argument. That may have been applicable 15 years ago, but everyone who uses a computer has seen dialogues with "Cancel" and knows that it means. Mar 16 12:30:02 To cancel remove battery Mar 16 12:30:13 remove all the buttons and have a nod to accept and a shake to decline Mar 16 12:30:19 Heh Mar 16 12:30:21 Now, there may be other arguments (and the "it's ok in usability tests" is a good one[1]) which do support the removal of the cancel button Mar 16 12:30:39 Either way, none of US have used the device or the full UI. Mar 16 12:30:43 [1] Assuming the users actually encountered a circumstance in which they wanted to cancel a dialogue during the exercises Mar 16 12:30:52 So we're hardly qualified to make sweeping arguments about its usability. Mar 16 12:30:54 Sorry, missed the previous discussion, but if there is no cancel button, how do you exit things? Mar 16 12:31:06 RST38h: Press outside the dialogue in the shaded area. Mar 16 12:31:17 Bad, BAD idea. Mar 16 12:31:32 doesn't translate well to existing apps at least (IME) Mar 16 12:31:45 GeneralAntilles: I think that's crok too, TBH. It's a small mitigation but the "Nokia knows best" argument doesn't go very far. Mar 16 12:31:55 Whoever came up with it should really be made to work on something else Mar 16 12:31:59 * GeneralAntilles shrugs. Mar 16 12:32:03 DBus backend or something. Something harmless. Mar 16 12:32:15 There's little point is quibbling over it until we can try it for ourselves. Mar 16 12:32:34 Other edge cases: what if the dialogue's big, and makes the cancel target area a thin number of pixels at the top Mar 16 12:32:37 General: The idea is simple enough to convey a thought experiment Mar 16 12:32:55 What applies to the desktop metaphor doesn't necessarily apply to a mobile device, anyway. Mar 16 12:33:08 Users don't necessarily expect the same thing when you've changed formfactors that much. Mar 16 12:33:13 General: Not necessarily to wait for the final device, you can start puking right now Mar 16 12:33:27 i dont mind clicking off being another optional way to close it, but the biggest kicker is the blank inactive area where the cancel is expected. Mar 16 12:33:46 GeneralAntilles, when I try to make a zenity dialog with "yes" and "no" and it *eats* my no button I become displeased :) Mar 16 12:34:28 General: Desktop or tablet, you perceive interface with your eyes and my eyes are asking me "where is the cancel button?" Mar 16 12:34:46 The fact that there's a new ConfirmationNote element to give the old behaviour is a little odd; given that the reason for having to do things like HildonWindow are to maintain proximity to upstream Gtk Mar 16 12:35:08 *mumbles quite unhelpful* I always press escape... Mar 16 12:35:26 * GeneralAntilles really isn't up for yet another stupid useless argument in #maemo this morning. Mar 16 12:35:44 General: Wait until it is released then Mar 16 12:35:48 Wait, there's another reason to come to this channel? Mar 16 12:35:53 GeneralAntilles, we could just PM you if you want :D Mar 16 12:36:10 RST38h, exactly what I'm trying to encourage. Mar 16 12:36:11 General: Will be a perfect shitstorm then Mar 16 12:36:15 johnx, expect retribution in kind. Mar 16 12:36:39 General: I do consider this a matter of personal preference, some people like to complain in advance :) Mar 16 12:37:31 Either way, absence of cancel button will cause a shitstorm, either now or later, doesn't matter really Mar 16 12:38:41 derf, occasionally productive things happen, but we seem to be trending towards the stupid useless bullshit lately. Mar 16 12:40:17 GeneralAntilles, i consider this to be important part of the alpha discussions. if our impressions and experience were not to be considered then there wouldnt have been a public test Mar 16 12:40:50 lcuk: I doubt anything we say here will affect Nokia's decision process in any way Mar 16 12:41:02 lcuk: Not after what happened with Modest and browserd Mar 16 12:42:05 wouldnt know, dont recall - i can use the tablet without encountering either ;) Mar 16 12:42:12 but dialogs are global Mar 16 12:47:46 lcuk: oh, i'm sure the cancel/dismis behavior will be bad. In fact, i've already hit that internally Mar 16 12:48:03 lcuk++ Mar 16 12:48:20 Part of the point of an alpha is to garner feedback and discover bugs. Mar 16 12:48:48 Retreating back behind "UI Specification" isn't very helpful to having a proper dialogue on the issue. Mar 16 12:52:25 rSt: please don't get me started on dbus Mar 16 12:53:01 Jaffa: nobody is retreating behind UI spec, you have ragnar and myself trying to explain Mar 16 12:53:22 why the decisions are made this way Mar 16 12:54:41 ragnar? Mar 16 12:54:51 on the other hand, it's fun to see that "cancel" is the only topic discussed, - people must be satisfied with the alpha otherwise :) Mar 16 12:55:14 +1 Mar 16 12:55:17 * johnx gets back to advising on what color to pain the barn :) Mar 16 12:55:26 i am very pleased with the rest now i have seen it at speed Mar 16 12:56:01 * lcuk said as much on itt :) Mar 16 12:56:45 * mgedmin sighs Mar 16 12:56:48 * lcuk wants to discuss internet furniture Mar 16 12:57:01 qgil: Sorry, I misread Eero's comment. Mar 16 12:57:23 hello mgedmin, to change the topic, i notice you are in a different country Mar 16 12:57:31 holiday or relocation? Mar 16 12:57:37 or just random ip shifting Mar 16 12:57:43 on-site consulting work Mar 16 12:57:55 Sweden is nice Mar 16 12:57:58 * RST38h remembers being routine given .se address by Tele2 Mar 16 12:58:17 s/routinely Mar 16 12:58:20 cool Mar 16 12:58:41 are you there for long or just a few days Mar 16 12:58:51 just until the end of the week now Mar 16 12:59:05 * mgedmin has been here since the beginning of February Mar 16 12:59:13 lol Mar 16 12:59:18 it took us a while to notice! Mar 16 13:00:01 all right, ttg Mar 16 13:00:53 same here, jacket potato is gettin cold Mar 16 13:01:12 * mgedmin wonders if lcuk is on facebook Mar 16 13:02:10 hahahahahahahahahahaha no Mar 16 13:02:32 timelE61i: ragnar = Roope Rainisto in ITt Mar 16 13:02:47 * lcuk leaves facebook to the other members of the family Mar 16 13:03:02 timelE61i: and I have no doubt you can find people with issues with the Cancel in our premises since there are also geeks as geeks as the ones that complain ;) Mar 16 13:03:32 and my bet is that almost nobody will keep complaining 24h after getting their device Mar 16 13:03:38 hehe.. geeks aren't typically happy about change :) Mar 16 13:03:44 "are you sure you want to send your credit card details to all contacts" "yes" :P Mar 16 13:04:34 lcuk: you seem to be really concerned about customer care. What about "Press the top of the screen" Mar 16 13:04:38 but ill stop now Mar 16 13:04:45 since the UI is translucent you can still see it there Mar 16 13:04:48 it does what it says on the tin Mar 16 13:04:52 hi Mar 16 13:04:55 so you press it to go back to it Mar 16 13:05:02 anyone still having trouble voting? Mar 16 13:05:15 Or were the 3 mails I got this morning the only ones so far? Mar 16 13:05:38 qgil, its the explanation thats hard. when a person is asked a question if it is ambiguous how to respond it leads to confusion Mar 16 13:05:40 dneary: there was someone in ITt but now you can't access the forum Mar 16 13:05:54 qgil: I'm not allowed? Mar 16 13:06:00 lcuk: "press the top of the screen", what is ambiguous in that Mar 16 13:06:20 dneary: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/ Mar 16 13:07:04 lcuk: assuming they ask such a question, of course Mar 16 13:07:13 lcuk: the workflow goes like this: Mar 16 13:07:32 lcuk: User is in Screen A performing some actionç Mar 16 13:08:15 lcuk: dialog appears in front while Screen A is seen in the background, a bit grayed and blurred Mar 16 13:08:42 lcuk: you don't want that dialog, you press the gray blurred part of the screen Mar 16 13:09:02 lcuk: it gets bright and focused as it was before the dialog Mar 16 13:09:09 true, that does make sense Mar 16 13:09:23 if task switching and such follows same pattern Mar 16 13:09:33 Stskeeps: same pattern Mar 16 13:10:18 or, "user is asked a question, they can respond "yes" or "no". i 100% agree that clicking the grey blurred bit can also act as No, just the same way clicking cancel acts as No, and usually clicking the "X" acts as No. but No is usually a distinct action that you can directly tell a user to click Mar 16 13:10:22 qgil: that depends how many purchased items they lose Mar 16 13:10:47 i am wondering a bit about the constant gray vs non-gray in the menu usage (seen on screen cast), but i'm assuming it might make more sense when we get to see the actual UI implementation + design :) Mar 16 13:10:52 lcuk: you can get Yes/No dialogs if you wish Mar 16 13:11:14 qgil: my problem is when i lose lots of work setting something u Mar 16 13:12:08 timelE61i: well, I also have gone mad after pressing "OK" to something I actually wanted to press Cancel or the other way round. Shit happens. Mar 16 13:12:35 More often here :) Mar 16 13:13:32 lo qwerty12 Mar 16 13:13:45 hey Stskeeps Mar 16 13:14:13 neiher pressing OK or cancel ever made me feel good so what's the point Mar 16 13:14:17 qgil/et al, fwiw, the cancel behavior is not the biggest problem Mar 16 13:14:30 Overall, qgil is right, it won't matter much Mar 16 13:15:03 keesj: how are you involved with openmoko btw? (out of curiousity) Mar 16 13:15:23 the only thing that worries me is how it will detect that the button is supposed to be "cancel" vs "no" Mar 16 13:16:40 is_maemo_5() Mar 16 13:17:10 Stskeeps: nothing special , I just stolen a openmoko phone from a colleage Mar 16 13:17:18 keesj: hehe, okay Mar 16 13:17:55 keesj: we'll probably make a mini-port of mer/hildon ui to it, hence my asking Mar 16 13:18:00 it uses the same hardware (s3c24xx) hardware that can be found in our hardware Mar 16 13:18:11 to see what can be done with it Mar 16 13:18:38 damn i was writing something Mar 16 13:19:05 ahhh well :) cyas later Mar 16 13:19:31 Stskeeps: I "only" have a Neo 1973 phone Mar 16 13:19:36 ah Mar 16 13:19:44 * Stskeeps checks specs Mar 16 13:19:54 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 Mar 16 13:21:08 hm, still armv4t though? Mar 16 13:21:38 with thumb Mar 16 13:21:43 good Mar 16 13:21:56 Anyone have a 5800? How do they compare to the N95? Mar 16 13:22:15 i got one Mar 16 13:22:32 alterego: it's ok, form factor is different to n95 of course.. the screen is much nicer Mar 16 13:22:52 * alterego looks at specs Mar 16 13:23:51 alterego: i like the keylock slider button(it has a spring so it's more of a bunch button slider if you know what i mean) Mar 16 13:24:46 Not sure I like onscreen kbds .. Mar 16 13:25:06 landscaped fullscreen it's like the maemo fullscreen thumb kb Mar 16 13:25:19 hmm, is thumb vkb themable btw? Mar 16 13:25:23 as in, if i wanted to move around buttons.. Mar 16 13:25:43 Yes, but it's not "easy". Mar 16 13:26:02 Stskeeps, Maemo or 5800's Symbian? Mar 16 13:26:05 Maemo Mar 16 13:26:44 Stskeeps, http://tinyurl.com/clty38 Mar 16 13:28:08 oh that's hot. Mar 16 13:28:35 Think I prefer the N95 Mar 16 13:29:00 qwerty12: ukeyboard is just layouts, right Mar 16 13:29:06 Stskeeps, ja Mar 16 13:29:13 in "def" files Mar 16 13:29:32 It has a creator that can run on the device but it's more like an text editor imho Mar 16 13:30:21 * Myrtti holds her breath Mar 16 13:36:01 * GeneralAntilles isn't sure if that's a drive clicking or liquid leaking sound coming from inside his computer. Mar 16 13:37:52 either one isn't good? Mar 16 13:37:52 :P Mar 16 13:38:04 maybe it's a slimy floppy disk slot. Mar 16 13:38:11 :S gan not good i gather its liquid coooled. you could check by turning machine off, disconnecting drives and powering up again Mar 16 13:38:34 (im betting if its leakage it will only occur whilst being pumped Mar 16 13:38:35 lcuk, or I could just take the cover off the radiator. Mar 16 13:39:22 Stskeeps: a hardware keyboard is what I miss on the Neo Mar 16 13:40:10 lol gan, that as well, hopefully you wont have much condensation to intefere and confuse the issue Mar 16 13:40:25 lcuk, it doesn't get below the dew point. :) Mar 16 13:40:27 keesj: mm, even front buttons would help i guess Mar 16 13:41:01 you just ruled out one of the possible reasons for a dripping sound then :P Mar 16 13:41:53 gan, is it a home done cooling system, or a fully closed factory system? Mar 16 13:42:02 lcuk, G5. . . . Mar 16 13:42:20 cool, are you sure the leaking sound isnt you drooling? Mar 16 13:43:50 which model is it gan Mar 16 13:44:00 2x2.5GHz Mar 16 13:44:06 Late-2004 Mar 16 13:47:44 * Myrtti sings to Queen: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNBWf54RvsI Mar 16 13:49:22 gan, impressive muchly. i always had a soft spot for them, they looked the business Mar 16 13:49:41 speaking of n95... Does mer run on it yet? Mar 16 13:49:43 Myrtti, im unhappy with youtube for muting certain songs Mar 16 13:50:15 timelE61i, is there even any sort of non-Symbian loader yet? Mar 16 13:50:16 lcuk: sucks to be in UK for once? Mar 16 13:50:25 for once? :P :D Mar 16 13:50:56 GeneralAntilles: haven't heard of any Mar 16 13:51:49 oh my. T-9h 57minutes for HUGGLES! Mar 16 13:52:43 timelE61i: if i get a bootloader i can access, maybe ;) Mar 16 13:55:04 aww, just reverse engineer it :) Mar 16 13:57:31 hehe, i'm not well wandered in ARM assembly :) Mar 16 13:58:31 I CAN SEE THE TRAIN, MOMMY! Mar 16 14:00:32 Stskeeps: Is 0.10 totally scrapped, then? Mar 16 14:06:42 timelE61i, n95 runs windows 3.1 and 95 :P Mar 16 14:16:15 Jaffa, needs some fixes, artwork, etc Mar 16 14:17:07 Afternoon. Mar 16 14:17:19 Hey, X-Fade. Mar 16 14:17:35 would like to polish a little more so, current state isn't fit for release Mar 16 14:20:12 GeneralAntilles: Removed sponsored by Nokia from the footer. Mar 16 14:21:16 X-Fade, did you talk to Quim about it? My impression was that it could go (and maybe they didn't want it there), but, honestly, I kind of like it. Mar 16 14:21:40 GeneralAntilles: Tero told me I could/should remove it. Mar 16 14:22:11 I think I'll play with a better Creative Commons picture today. Mar 16 14:22:31 but the question is, will it blend? Mar 16 14:22:34 erm. Mar 16 14:22:36 :P Mar 16 14:22:37 It actually created some space as it was overlapping the powered by part on the tablet. Mar 16 14:22:53 @Nemein office btw ;) Mar 16 14:23:04 Myrtti, if you print it out and stick it in a blender, probably. Mar 16 14:23:13 X-Fade, make them do better reporting. :P Mar 16 14:23:16 X-Fade: it is a debian box that we're working with, riiiight? Mar 16 14:23:23 plz say it is Mar 16 14:23:37 Myrtti: Does that matter? Mar 16 14:23:43 (it is) Mar 16 14:23:52 only on the function that checks if you have git :-P Mar 16 14:24:16 You're not going to ask me to run that script on the server, are you? Mar 16 14:24:26 http://i.gizmodo.com/5170542/shots-leak-of-lenovo-pocket-yoga-netbook-looks-like-it-actually-fits-in-a-pocket Mar 16 14:24:36 I'm not sure who's going to do the asking ;-P Mar 16 14:24:47 roope, I'm going to say $1700 USD Mar 16 14:24:56 Because that sounds like a no-no ;) Mar 16 14:24:57 yeah, it sure looks cheap. :D Mar 16 14:25:09 love the faux-wood detailing. Mar 16 14:25:10 X-Fade: what, you're suspecting my skills? *snif* Mar 16 14:25:22 This one just screams "Mug me" http://i.gizmodo.com/photogallery/lenovopocketyoga/1007576572 Mar 16 14:25:45 Myrtti: I was hoping your script could run remotely? Does it post over http? Mar 16 14:34:05 * rzr_ announces : http://digg.com/linux_unix/Watch_nitdroid_emulator_emulated_nokia_tablet_runs_android Mar 16 14:44:23 itT doesn't like me :P Mar 16 14:44:23 Fatal error: Call to undefined function mysqli_init() in /home/tabtalk/public_html/forums/includes/class_core.php on line 1128 Mar 16 14:44:44 yeah, it's broken today Mar 16 14:45:57 rzr: neat video Mar 16 14:49:53 'lo zenvoid Mar 16 14:50:08 hello Stskeeps Mar 16 14:50:21 ... and hello methril ;-) Mar 16 14:50:24 back Mar 16 14:51:28 zenvoid: funny effect on theme, marquee bg - it shows correctly when redrawn O_o Mar 16 14:52:35 arrrggg!! where is "jeremiad".. Mar 16 14:52:58 probably enjoying the good weather Mar 16 14:54:09 the weather here is horrible.. just raining or cloudy.. Mar 16 14:54:20 Stskeeps: I've been away during this weekend, any improvement to the new theme? Mar 16 14:54:31 hello zenvoid Mar 16 14:54:35 and others Mar 16 14:54:43 hi methril|work :) Mar 16 14:54:47 zenvoid: no sadly, wazd never got back with artwork (yet), and 0.10 pretty much blew up big time so i'm not releasing it currently Mar 16 14:55:15 methril|work: stressful work? Mar 16 14:55:23 Stskeeps i've one friend working in some Freerunner and Mer, could you give me more information, please? Mar 16 14:56:08 methril|work: basically one of the plans for the 0.11 and 0.12 sprint is to rebuild the mer packages (hildon ui + desktop) on top of debian-armel Mar 16 14:56:13 I would want to test the the new UI, but got blocked with the proprietary library dependency Mar 16 14:56:43 methril|work: and goshawk has been working on qemu stuff to get things going (he's from a eu distributor i believe) Mar 16 14:56:58 :) Mar 16 14:57:12 and i have set up the builder so we can start building the packages Mar 16 14:57:13 yep Mar 16 14:57:29 methril|work: tell me something about your company, please. Mar 16 14:57:42 but let's move to #mer as it is not directly related to maemo and internet tablets Mar 16 14:57:59 my company? i'm a worker, not an owner Mar 16 14:58:01 why? Mar 16 14:58:10 ok Mar 16 14:58:26 thopiekar: was the question for me? Mar 16 14:58:41 Stskeeps: is there #mer channel? Mar 16 14:58:45 zenvoid: yeah Mar 16 14:59:02 it mixes a bit where we talk :) Mar 16 14:59:08 I'm searching for a work experiance in the summer holidays this year.. Mar 16 14:59:33 ahh, ok, so it #mer supposed to be the official channel for Mer? :P Mar 16 14:59:40 zenvoid: sortof Mar 16 14:59:49 ok, going there... Mar 16 14:59:58 OK, I'm failing absolutely at getting a good CC logo. Mar 16 15:00:24 goshawk, methril|work : ? Mar 16 15:01:16 thopiekar: nevermind :) Mar 16 15:01:34 thopiekar> methril|work: tell me something about your company, please. Mar 16 15:04:03 GeneralAntilles: Hmm, not good. Mar 16 15:06:05 goshawk, methril|work: could you please give me some infos, please.. Mar 16 15:06:19 thopiekar: about what? Mar 16 15:06:36 your company :P Mar 16 15:06:36 CC logo? Mar 16 15:06:46 ah ok Mar 16 15:06:51 do you want a private chat? Mar 16 15:07:09 it'S your choise :) Mar 16 15:07:29 yep, i think it's better, since i don't wanna be a spammer :P Mar 16 15:08:02 k Mar 16 15:10:17 X-Fade, how about " Except where noted." ? Mar 16 15:10:42 +otherwise Mar 16 15:16:15 GeneralAntilles: I'm not sure if that is clear enough? Mar 16 15:18:40 X-Fade, need to get us some of that usability testing that Nokia has. ;) Mar 16 15:18:56 Maybe we could just make the font small enough to fit on two lines? ;) Mar 16 15:19:59 GeneralAntilles: Current text should fit now anyway ;) Mar 16 15:20:27 Yeah, but that logo in the middle is just nasty. Mar 16 15:21:28 hm, how stable is SDK+ these days? Mar 16 15:23:05 GeneralAntilles: Maybe we need to think of a way to align the logo to the right. Mar 16 15:23:27 I say we find wazd and make him make it purty. ;) Mar 16 15:23:29 And think of an actual text that makes sense to have the logo at the end ;) Mar 16 15:23:51 "We're using this thing: " Mar 16 15:24:13 X-Fade: did you see my suggestion last week or whenever? Mar 16 15:24:30 X-Fade: what was the name of the software autobuilder uses to build packages? Mar 16 15:24:41 like, build within sb Mar 16 15:27:50 I guess Creative Commons is a little finicky about trademark usage. Mar 16 15:28:37 Stskeeps, iirc, http://extras-cauldron.garage.maemo.org/HOWTO.html#id1 Mar 16 15:28:43 Stskeeps: sbdmock Mar 16 15:28:49 ah, sbdmock Mar 16 15:29:04 http://www.bifh.org/wiki/sbdmock Mar 16 15:29:10 It is open source Mar 16 15:29:45 * Stskeeps can't connect, lovely Mar 16 15:30:10 Stskeeps: And we use BuildMe to fetch packages from the queue and dispatch them to the builders. Mar 16 15:50:09 iTT is up again Mar 16 15:57:12 * thopiekar thought that rebuilding graphviz would be eady but he is needing now graphviz thopiekar: try building ddd - it's similar (but not as bad) Mar 16 16:09:04 X-Fade: I can't find it in the logs, but I think my suggestion was: a) drop the Nokia logo; b) move the CC logo in its place to the far right; c) Have text to the left saying "Content under CC-xxx-yyyy\nUnless otherwise marked." (right-aligned, to the left of the logo) Mar 16 16:09:56 ddd? for what lbt? Mar 16 16:10:51 n800 Mar 16 16:16:48 ddd requires motif Mar 16 16:17:04 and extensive mouse navigation using both buttons Mar 16 16:17:34 I wanted to export DISPLAY Mar 16 16:17:49 run on tablet - debug on PC Mar 16 16:22:08 ah Mar 16 16:22:14 it's twue it's twue: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/03/16/scientology_xenu_confirmation/ Mar 16 16:22:47 lol Mar 16 16:44:32 hi greentux :) Mar 16 16:44:56 greentux: über netzanbieter online? Mar 16 16:45:08 hello Mar 16 16:45:14 hi Mar 16 16:45:26 anybody here with a working scratchbox setup? Mar 16 16:45:30 please build gypsy with the patch from http://bugzilla.o-hand.com/show_bug.cgi?id=729 Mar 16 16:45:35 for n810 Mar 16 16:45:47 hmm Mar 16 16:46:21 but if I would patch that it wouldn't work for n800' s right? Mar 16 16:47:41 depends on the gps Mar 16 16:48:01 the patch adds a routine that turns on the n810 gps Mar 16 16:48:12 I am not so familiar with n800 Mar 16 16:48:26 it uses libgpsbt (I found out) Mar 16 16:48:36 so uses `standard` routines for doing so Mar 16 16:49:14 so if I would make that package for you (n810) it should work on N800, too... If you are sure let me know... Mar 16 16:49:21 * thopiekar is a N800 user :P Mar 16 16:50:06 hi thopiekar Mar 16 16:50:22 thopiekar: über welchen netzanbieter? Mar 16 16:53:45 thopiekar, if the n800 has gps Mar 16 16:53:59 which cna be turned on via libgpsbt (as I found on the web) Mar 16 16:54:02 then yes Mar 16 16:55:36 http://beans.seartipy.com/2007/10/19/n800-vs-n810-or-who-should-consider-buying-nokia-n810/ Mar 16 16:55:46 so no gps in n800? Mar 16 16:56:03 No internal GPS, no Mar 16 16:56:19 so it has libgpsbt to use bt to connect to gps Mar 16 16:56:54 * GeneralAntilles conquers a bubble pack Mar 16 16:56:58 greentux: als du online gekommen bist stand da: [n=lemke@ip-90-186-166-197.web.vodafone.de] :) Mar 16 16:57:32 udovdh: no intregrated gps... Mar 16 16:57:50 I see Mar 16 16:57:51 thopiekar: yes vodafone... umts Mar 16 16:58:14 :P is it fast and how much do you pay? Mar 16 17:01:25 hi, how long does it usually take to get the approval for the extras-devel autobuilder? i requested an invitation yesterday night but have not heard anything yet... Mar 16 17:02:14 It has taken for me not more than 3days to get access.. Mar 16 17:02:52 sanchiii, 24-48 hours Mar 16 17:02:56 ah ok then this is still normal (was just wondering 'cause it said something about 'hours' on that other page) Mar 16 17:02:56 Not including weekends Mar 16 17:03:33 It mostly depends on when X-Fade gets around to getting through the daily queue. ;) Mar 16 17:03:55 ;) ah ok so they don't check the credit card record... Mar 16 17:04:25 It's just one person approving, so. ;) Mar 16 17:04:41 Feel free to throw things at him (just nothing too sharp or heavy) if it'll make you feel better. ;) Mar 16 17:05:21 hm, i got a package which is quite lightweigfht, and should be soft as well :^) Mar 16 17:05:26 * qwerty12 throws GeneralAntilles at X-Fade Mar 16 17:06:02 * GeneralAntilles gets a free flight to Europe. Mar 16 17:06:07 * sanchiii wonders how soft GeneralAntilles is Mar 16 17:06:27 * GeneralAntilles has lots of sharp edges. Mar 16 17:06:35 He likes long walks on the beach. That's pretty soft. Mar 16 17:07:19 I'm going to bring shuriken to the Summit to throw at you and Tim, Jaffa. :P Mar 16 17:09:00 this has probably been asked 100s of times, but i am going to ask one more time: how about the porting gurus here to port a simple but fun groovebox or synthesizer to NIT? Mar 16 17:14:49 hi Mar 16 17:21:34 * rmt yawns. Mar 16 17:21:38 wb Mar 16 17:22:27 Okay.. compiling newer libs for the N810 .. Gtk and all its dependencies.. Mar 16 17:23:51 * rmt really just wants vala to work nicely. Mar 16 17:24:03 rmt: grab the fremantle gtk imho Mar 16 17:25:37 Stskeeps, Will probably do a quasi fremantle upgrade once I've got the device.. Mar 16 17:25:57 rmt: be aware you might simply be doing double work though Mar 16 17:26:16 mer's designed for bringing it up to date with fremantle Mar 16 17:27:09 Yup.. but my immediate goal is to get valac compiling my app in scratchbox .. and it's been a while since I've compiled glib/gtk etc.. remembering all the common pitfalls right now. :) Mar 16 17:32:52 Stskeeps: what could be the cause why maemo extras assistant just builded i386 packages? Mar 16 17:33:06 thopiekar: no clue Mar 16 17:33:41 I just set up arch: all in control.. Mar 16 17:33:45 Exactly. Mar 16 17:33:55 you mean "any" Mar 16 17:34:05 Why do you need the same thing built twice if it's suitable for all archs? Mar 16 17:34:06 where is the difference? Mar 16 17:34:37 don't know isn't it better do provide packages for armel and i386? Mar 16 17:35:02 Not if it isn't needed. Just wastes repository space then. Mar 16 17:36:26 k Mar 16 17:38:39 does anybody know why this has happend? Mar 16 17:38:42 http://pastebin.com/d2b3d52bb Mar 16 17:41:07 qwerty12: ? Mar 16 17:41:29 Sorry, can't open the link, I'm trying to get my ass to Mullholland Mar 16 17:42:03 Mullholland? Mar 16 17:42:15 Place in GTA :) Mar 16 17:42:20 rmt: I've built vala in scratchbox with a trivial mud recipe, and had intended on updating it and uploading it to extras-devel tonight Mar 16 17:42:20 :P Mar 16 17:42:27 hi nomis Mar 16 17:42:42 qwerty12: gta4? Mar 16 17:43:08 thopiekar, no, my computer is too shit :( - Gta San Andreas Mar 16 17:43:26 rmt: more info (incl. link to the mud-builder recipe) at http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=272025&postcount=447 Mar 16 17:44:02 hehe GTA:SA rocks but isn't running through wine Mar 16 17:45:27 thopiekar: lol, yeah, in windows atm using mirc (missing linux and xchat :() :) Mar 16 17:45:42 qwerty12: :P Mar 16 17:48:54 http://pastebin.com/d4e2ce717 -> !? Mar 16 17:50:01 edited the control now and set all to any... Mar 16 17:50:37 Jaffa, Yeah.. the app I made uses glib's regex's, which aren't in diablo's glib, (if I understood the errors this morning).. Mar 16 17:50:46 build in i386 was successfully for the first time.. but now armel is ok and i386 fails... Mar 16 17:55:04 GTA:SA runs fine with wine Mar 16 17:55:11 uch? Mar 16 17:55:17 EVERYTHING runs fine with wine Mar 16 17:55:23 *nod* Mar 16 17:55:30 My ATI drivers don't run well in that case :/ Mar 16 17:55:32 and if not, you wont notice it Mar 16 17:56:09 I have played all missions except the last one Mar 16 17:56:24 qwerty12: I don't think that our ATI-cards are the problem.. Mar 16 17:58:31 hurrah! n810 lived through the night last night Mar 16 17:58:41 http://pastebin.com/d4e2ce717.. could someone please tell me why this build fails? Mar 16 17:59:00 That reminds me. I need to raise the pc-connectiviyt bug about it breaking the Fn key (since the most recent update rebroke it) Mar 16 18:12:59 suihkulokki: am i wrong in assuming it's possible to intermix VFP libraries and non-VFP binaries? Mar 16 18:15:23 Stskeeps: you are not wrong Mar 16 18:15:33 k Mar 16 18:15:33 annoying double negation Mar 16 18:15:38 yeah :P Mar 16 18:16:39 I also love to hate it when people use double negation Mar 16 18:17:24 as long as the VFP libs have compiled with softfp abi, intermixing them with non-VFP binaries and libraries works just fine Mar 16 18:21:35 alright, - ta :) Mar 16 19:07:08 hi - I see libcurl stuff in /usr/lib on an N800, but no curl?? Mar 16 19:07:24 whats the trick? Mar 16 19:08:02 I got a .deb from curl.haxx.se that says Maemo 4.1.. just install that? Mar 16 19:08:06 seems fishy Mar 16 19:10:34 Okey.. my vala app seems to work okay, except for some strange Xephyr input behaviour.. xmodmap seems to fix most of it, though. Mar 16 19:12:12 "Warning: downgrading libcurl3 from 7.15.5.1osso4 to 7.15.5.1osso3.." Mar 16 19:12:25 what kind of version number is that... Mar 16 19:13:11 and still no curl ?! Mar 16 19:15:22 ok, curl is at the top of the page, seperate Mar 16 19:15:47 but I cant build on this N800 Mar 16 19:15:55 so I need a binary curl, yes Mar 16 19:21:06 wow Mar 16 19:21:47 i mount my ixus 960 as gphotofs to n810 Mar 16 19:21:48 cool (% Mar 16 19:22:10 hmm, any reason itt no longer counts towards karma? Mar 16 19:23:40 itT was down last night Mar 16 19:23:47 Probably messed up the count. Mar 16 19:30:08 is there any chance we could have a "New in Extras" RSS feed, or something similar? Arch Linux does, and it's rather handy Mar 16 19:32:02 hmm, worth a suggestion Mar 16 19:33:21 when I've used distros that don't have that, I often find myself spending more time looking for interesting apps than using them :P Mar 16 19:36:28 by the way, how /is/ Maemo pronounced? May-mo? My-mo? Mar 16 19:36:34 Mæmo? :P Mar 16 19:36:42 i actually don't know. Fremantle is a tough one for me too. Mar 16 19:37:01 I heard Quim pronounce it on an interview, but I forgot Mar 16 19:37:10 jaem_N810, see the wikipedia article. Mar 16 19:37:12 and I haven't dug up the podcast again Mar 16 19:37:20 GA: oh right... duh Mar 16 19:37:31 :P Mar 16 19:37:46 Stskeeps, http://www.merriam-webster.com/cgi-bin/audio.pl?ggfrem01.wav=Fremantle Mar 16 19:38:01 jaem_N810, there's a Downloads RSS feed for that. Mar 16 19:38:10 I'm hoping to have it directly in the Application Manager soon. Mar 16 19:39:00 GA: that would be good :) But does the Downloads section cover everything? Mar 16 19:39:10 ...in extras, that is Mar 16 19:39:27 Downloads entries are automagically created for stuff in Extras. Mar 16 19:39:34 GeneralAntilles: what, it's not Free-mant-el? :P Mar 16 19:40:08 .. ok, it is actually Mar 16 19:40:26 GeneralAntilles: no they are not. only updates are shown automatically Mar 16 19:40:54 Well, that's changed. Mar 16 19:41:02 http://www.merriam-webster.com/cgi-bin/audio.pl?ggfrem01.wav=ClickHereToDownloadPlugin Mar 16 19:41:05 Regressions and maemo.org, who would've guessed? ;) Mar 16 19:41:57 afaik entries have never been autocreated Mar 16 19:42:30 the downloads thing is different Mar 16 19:42:44 mikkov__: that was my impression (and why I asked) Mar 16 19:42:44 it needs bigger description etc than the debian package Mar 16 19:43:02 and pictures Mar 16 19:44:02 re Mar 16 20:17:35 hi, I'm having problems running the gps demo from https://garage.maemo.org/svn/maemoexamples/tags/maemo_4.1/maemo-examples/example_gps.c Mar 16 20:20:15 it builds ok (except for a warning on line 64), but when I run it, I get "Could not start GPS" and it terminates. Mar 16 20:20:42 But the GPS icon does appear on my tablet, and it seems to be searching for satellites. Mar 16 20:30:49 * Jaffa settles down after dinner for some hardcore Maemo hackery Mar 16 20:36:00 I've got Scratchbox 1 installed, and I'm trying to install python2.5, but dpkg keeps coming back with errors like "unable to create `./usr/bin/easy_install': Permission denied. Mar 16 20:36:17 fakeroot? Mar 16 20:36:22 I think it's because ./usr/bin doesn't exist, even if I install while in '/' (I think dpkg is changing the directory) Mar 16 20:36:24 Yeah I'm using fakeroot. Mar 16 20:36:32 Is trying to install to ./usr/bin instead of /usr/bin Mar 16 20:37:20 Hello ... Mar 16 20:37:23 It is trying to install... Mar 16 20:37:36 i see that there is client for mpd on nit ? Mar 16 20:37:48 does there is the server available too ? Mar 16 20:37:53 yep Mar 16 20:38:02 i didn t see it on extras Mar 16 20:38:07 an old version is on garage Mar 16 20:38:41 i spent a day compiling my own pimped version but I lost the debs :( Mar 16 20:38:53 :( Mar 16 20:39:53 the garage version should work well though, used it fine for a long while (with mmpc & sonata ) Mar 16 20:40:36 johnx: can you elaborate on the fremantle dialogue UI problem with zenity in #4183 please? Mar 16 20:40:37 Nevermind, got it. Mar 16 20:42:26 thx qwerty1z Mar 16 20:47:56 Hi Mar 16 20:48:25 I was thinking about installing Ubuntu on my N800 Mar 16 20:48:39 but I have a 4GB mem card Mar 16 20:48:58 lahiru: that's enough for LXDE, which is lighter than GNOME Mar 16 20:49:02 do u think tht will sufficient for tha Gnome desktop? Mar 16 20:49:23 probably not, once you add a decent amount of swap Mar 16 20:49:54 ah Mar 16 20:50:04 so can I just install LXDE? Mar 16 20:50:27 yes. just follow the instructions, except for the "installing ubuntu-desktop" part Mar 16 20:50:36 I think the package is just called "lxde" Mar 16 20:52:00 lahiru: I have to go to an appointment, but if you give me 15 or so, I can be back online while I'm on my way Mar 16 20:52:42 jaem_afk, thanks a lot! I'll install the ubuntu base first. :) Mar 16 20:56:14 Don't you just love dialogs with questions that have a negative in them, and you get presented with a "Yes" or "No" choice. Do you want to not not not not not not not not not not not not not not not not not erase and permanently brick all of your computers? Yes/No Mar 16 21:14:22 anyone using Mer? Mar 16 21:14:28 I can't really figure out what it is/does Mar 16 21:14:34 the site mostly talks about goals/mission etc Mar 16 21:14:39 but not much about what it *is* Mar 16 21:16:24 Tu13es: mm. it comes from some thoughts on reconstructing maemo - but to make a long story short, imagine a maemo where you had the power of the ubuntu repository and ease of development Mar 16 21:16:31 hmm Mar 16 21:16:56 I'm not a developer, so would the main reason I'd want to use Mer is to get "normal" linux apps? Mar 16 21:17:26 for instance, or keep on having a modern OS on your N8x0, since Nokia won't provide Fremantle for it :P Mar 16 21:17:48 heh Mar 16 21:17:58 well, my n800 has been collecting dust for a while Mar 16 21:18:11 I'm debating whether it's worth digging out for Mer or not Mar 16 21:18:27 I'd actually kind of like to fiddle with the "real" ubuntu on it, but my SD cards aren't large enough Mar 16 21:18:51 4gb really ought to be more than enough, maybe not for gnome, but .. Mar 16 21:19:09 yeah, my largest is 2gb at the moment Mar 16 21:19:17 i'll buy a few 8gb cards in a bit Mar 16 21:19:30 also, mer is a lot easier to install :P Mar 16 21:19:37 heh, yeah Mar 16 21:20:01 stskeeps ... hum you have removed the 'no no no' dialog ? Mar 16 21:20:17 Khertan_n810: hmm? Mar 16 21:20:41 can you tell me where I can find a howto on installing debootstrap, Bootmenu and binutils please? Mar 16 21:21:06 Stskeeps: how big a SD card do I need for Mer? Mar 16 21:21:14 Tu13es: i use a 2gb card myself Mar 16 21:21:25 it fits in 139mb tar.gz, so, yeah Mar 16 21:21:50 hmm Mar 16 21:21:54 will a 1gb card work? Mar 16 21:22:11 it's stretching it a bit but yes Mar 16 21:22:16 (i think) Mar 16 21:22:30 ./dev/mmcblk1p3 3.4G 436.4M 2.8G 13% /mnt/deblet Mar 16 21:22:32 so, ye Mar 16 21:22:33 s Mar 16 21:25:29 cool Mar 16 21:25:30 I really wanna find out how to install debootstrap an binutils. any help please! :) Mar 16 21:25:42 thanks in advance Mar 16 21:26:12 lahiru: it should say in the guide Mar 16 21:26:36 mmm Mar 16 21:27:03 b-man really needs some kinda warning that it is not a trivial operation to install ubuntu.. Mar 16 21:27:36 Tu13es: tablet-ubuntu is basically mer without our specialized maemo gtk and such Mar 16 21:31:58 ah Mar 16 21:35:25 Can anyone remember: if the auto-builder fails to build a package (say, vala_0.5.7), will it pick up a new upload with the exact same version number? Mar 16 21:35:34 Ah. Build status just come through: answer == yes Mar 16 21:43:43 bye Mar 16 21:45:32 "NBC Universal has decided to change the name of their Sci Fi Channel to Syfy. Why? To pull in a more 'mainstream' audience." Mar 16 21:45:56 Am I the only one instantly associating the new name with syphilis? Mar 16 21:47:22 nop, not only you Mar 16 21:50:11 good, I started worrying =) Mar 16 22:50:43 * Jaffa bingles mud - I got bored waiting for the auto-builder, so dropped in three more files and turned vala-sample into a proper menu-starting app with icons Mar 16 22:52:46 hello there, im looking at todays announcement of ubuntu running on the n810. i see there's a rootstrap image, but i have no idea how to get it into the device. what's the equivalent of flashing for that? Mar 16 22:52:46 * Brian- trys adding a fuew patches to his ubuntu image as a temporary fix for the sys-env-* dependence issue Mar 16 22:53:41 you'll need to partition, format, mount and, extract the image Mar 16 22:53:47 onto your mmc Mar 16 22:54:48 did you read the instructions? Mar 16 22:54:50 so, i extract it into the root of the mmc, and then how do i boot it? Mar 16 22:55:21 you'll need to install a desktop env Mar 16 22:55:39 unless you want a console ;) Mar 16 22:55:55 b-man: a console is fine. Mar 16 22:56:38 btw, i'll be releasing a newer version of that image soon that will be quite a bit more stable ;) Mar 16 22:57:04 +so Mar 16 22:57:05 b-man: i just don't get the part after extracting the image, how do i boot from that? Mar 16 22:57:34 you'll need to install the deblet bootmenu Mar 16 22:58:30 * b-man gets a link Mar 16 23:00:48 b-man: k Mar 16 23:01:00 sidnei: you can grab the bootmenu from here; http://trac.tspre.org/svn/deblet/trunk/deblet-diablo.install Mar 16 23:01:37 you'll need to add the repository though Mar 16 23:06:13 ah, now i see what is wrong. things are just out-of-order in the forum, so i though they were unrelated Mar 16 23:08:38 heh - i'm working on a better install method atm - it shouldn't be as complicated ;) Mar 16 23:09:17 cool! i'm happy to be your beta tester. this n810 here was just collecting dust anyway :) Mar 16 23:09:37 sweet!! :D Mar 16 23:10:20 my internal flash is =( Mar 16 23:10:26 and it's palco's fault )= Mar 16 23:10:32 now i'm outta warranty Mar 16 23:10:33 dead? :( Mar 16 23:10:35 what do i do?? Mar 16 23:10:50 not dead, but sad about life.. bad blocks, io errors, multiple formats, no fixy Mar 16 23:11:13 hmm :( Mar 16 23:16:18 b-man: if nothing else, instructions at http://wiki.maemo.org/Ubuntu (or something merinstaller inspired) Mar 16 23:17:09 shure, as soon as i get better established - btw sys-env-base installs without errors now :D Mar 16 23:17:42 * b-man trys sys-env-x Mar 16 23:19:36 hmm libxsp is missing from the repo... i'll fix that! :D Mar 16 23:22:21 b-man: do i have to go through the debootstrap steps, or does the rootstrap image take care of all that? Mar 16 23:24:20 the rootstrap image takes care of that, but it's highly suggested that you bootstrap it - that image is pritty old Mar 16 23:24:49 that's why i'mm making a new one ;) Mar 16 23:24:54 *i'm Mar 16 23:26:55 pluse the new image is going to use the sys-env system Mar 16 23:27:56 so it's 1000% easier to install :) Mar 16 23:28:59 b-man: are you close to being done? i might just let this run otherwise Mar 16 23:29:50 i might be releasing it tonight or tomorrow depending on if i run into anything else Mar 16 23:30:40 b-man: cool. i will let it run just to see how it goes then. last time debootstrap failed in weird and unexpected ways :) Mar 16 23:31:55 * b-man eats dinner Mar 16 23:31:58 i'll be back Mar 16 23:57:47 i'm back :) Mar 17 00:02:22 Mousey: ping! Mar 17 00:03:19 Mousey: what was your issue with the internal card, and Palco? Mar 17 00:05:10 hi Mar 17 00:05:17 the card won't write properly Mar 17 00:05:19 oh Mar 17 00:05:28 and it worked fine before i sent it off for service [for the display] Mar 17 00:05:47 did the warranty expire since they sent it back, then? Mar 17 00:06:28 since then i think so, i haven't actually checked the little nokia warranty tool, but i got it not last christmas but the christmas before, so i imagine so Mar 17 00:06:45 my issue a while ago is different, but I heard the words "palco" and "dead internal mmc" and my ears perked up Mar 17 00:06:57 so it was mostly dead when you got it back? Mar 17 00:07:40 writes have been unreliable since i got it back, and i can't fsck and get a clean fsck Mar 17 00:08:44 have you been having any issues reading the partition table? Any fs tools hanging on you? Mar 17 00:09:16 fsck won't complete without errors, repeatedly, and badblocks comes back with tons of sectors Mar 17 00:09:20 ouch Mar 17 00:09:31 any theories, or is it just out of the blue? Mar 17 00:09:34 that and writes generate i/o errors, so i can't apt-get upgrade reliably, if at all Mar 17 00:09:58 oh wait - is this onboard flash, or internal mmc? Mar 17 00:10:01 it's gotta be something physically wrong with the media, the behavior isn't indicative of a software problem Mar 17 00:10:07 internal mmc Mar 17 00:10:10 ah Mar 17 00:10:19 the mdblock is fine Mar 17 00:10:36 for what it's (not) worth, I checked with Nokia support, and the "internal mmc" is soldered to the board Mar 17 00:10:58 I normally say "Everything is user-serviceable to a sufficiently skilled user", but that's probably not worth it Mar 17 00:22:21 Mousey: do you have any reason to believe it's Palco's fault? Mar 17 00:23:01 yes. it worked before i sent it. and it doesn't work now. Mar 17 00:23:27 hmm... you're in the US, then, since you sent it to Palco? Mar 17 00:24:36 HAI! Mar 17 00:24:43 *ahem*, i mean yes Mar 17 00:25:44 mmm... well, if you think it's a botched repair... I don't know anyone in the US, but I have a contact in Canada who could probably refer you to someone who you could plead your case with Mar 17 00:27:53 Mousey: check my PM Mar 17 00:37:15 any idea why I have to log in to maemo.org, then click the login link again, in order to actually be logged in? Mar 17 00:38:39 I have to do the same in firefox & on the tablet in MicroB :/ Mar 17 00:44:29 hackers stealing your login Mar 17 00:44:54 sorry, next time I'll spend the extra time to have my keylogger actualy log you in after I steal your password Mar 17 00:45:21 yeah, come on - what kind of shoddy keyloggers do you write, anyway?! Mar 17 00:45:28 I was pressed for time Mar 17 00:45:31 I really needed to pee Mar 17 01:17:55 has anyone in #here tried the InvisibleShield kit for the N810? Mar 17 01:18:14 mine is looking slightly less new these days, and I'm thinking of buying it Mar 17 01:21:04 Irritating protector Mar 17 01:21:11 I'd go with Boxwave anti-glare instead Mar 17 01:21:20 Re-applicable. Mar 17 01:21:30 boxwave are expensive for shipping however Mar 17 01:21:41 what's the (dis/)advantage? Mar 17 01:27:13 I'd prefer cheap, but I'd also like to protect the initial investment (N810) Mar 17 01:42:14 oh my... in the latest "OH NOEZ! MY BATTERY EXPLODED!" lawsuit, some kid's mother is suing all the employees of an Apple retail store for acting "maliciously and fraudently" in the sale of an iPod Touch Mar 17 01:42:21 that's just stupid Mar 17 01:52:14 hey b-man Mar 17 01:52:31 hello, jaem :) Mar 17 01:53:36 I've been fiddling with Jaunty some more, but I'm still having issues Mar 17 01:53:36 the ubuntu-n8x0 repo is functional now - and sys-env-x and sys-env-base is now instalable :D Mar 17 01:53:40 yay! Mar 17 01:53:52 Fn still doesn't work for me, as of about two days ago Mar 17 01:53:57 wasn't that fixed? Mar 17 01:54:59 not yet, i might need to grab the newer version of evdev fm mer to fix that Mar 17 01:55:19 ah Mar 17 01:56:35 but the base system is now instalable from only a fuew packages now XD Mar 17 01:56:48 would you say that it's ready for casual use? Mar 17 01:57:19 not quite yet, but it'l be soon ;) Mar 17 01:57:27 what's left to do? Mar 17 01:58:26 make an installer, finish sys-env, and fine-toon the system Mar 17 01:59:09 pluse add a fuew inhancements Mar 17 01:59:21 what all is in sys-env? Mar 17 01:59:28 that's a metapackage, right? Mar 17 01:59:54 yup, kinda like nit-env in deblet Mar 17 02:00:22 oh right Mar 17 02:00:49 it's a lot more practical ;) Mar 17 02:10:40 dinner calls - bbl Mar 17 02:11:07 see ya Mar 17 02:11:17 oh - and b-man: I have a minimal install of Ubuntu on my tablet, so if you need me to test anything, I'd be more than happy to, time permitting Mar 17 02:11:29 send me a PM on itT if I'm not on here Mar 17 02:11:42 k, thanks :D Mar 17 02:11:53 I'm anxious to have it working well, so... Mar 17 02:11:54 :P Mar 17 02:12:03 :) Mar 17 02:16:14 "On 01/??/20??, Dr. Jack Bright was 'given the bird' on his way to the movies by a passing motorist. As is fairly normal for Dr. Bright, he tracked down the owner of the vehicle through the cars license plate, then proceeded to drive the gentleman to suicide via the use of SCP-720." Mar 17 02:17:27 heh Mar 17 02:19:25 hello, neatojones :) Mar 17 02:19:33 Hello Mar 17 02:19:48 I'm going to try out the new e17 pacakges... I think Mar 17 02:20:00 I beeen busy, but. Probably time I gave it another shot. Mar 17 02:20:19 sys-env-x and sys-env-base are now installable btw Mar 17 02:20:41 pluse i'm making a new image Mar 17 02:21:02 and i have e17 in the repo :) Mar 17 02:21:38 Nice. The new packages will hopefully allow the keyboard to work. (which is a very nice feature). Mar 17 02:21:51 awsome Mar 17 02:22:05 also, they'll hopefully fix the screen color bit problems Mar 17 02:22:17 I have a nicer feature Mar 17 02:22:30 I modded the open source wifi driver to talk GPRS Mar 17 02:22:43 that's sweet Mar 17 02:22:44 wow, nice :D Mar 17 02:22:50 j/k ☹ Mar 17 02:23:04 XD Mar 17 02:23:18 cruel... Mar 17 02:23:24 if only.. Mar 17 02:24:12 * b-man will be back in about ½hour, bye :) Mar 17 02:44:50 i'm back :) Mar 17 02:45:49 break out the beer Mar 17 02:46:06 lol Mar 17 02:47:27 * b-man notices that tar is trying to compress his ubuntu image in his ubuntu image... wtf!?!? 0o Mar 17 02:48:21 it's compressing an image that's in an image that's being compressed Mar 17 02:48:42 >< Mar 17 02:49:23 it's a never ending compression loop XD Mar 17 02:50:43 * b-man kills tar before it's too late Mar 17 02:51:21 the tar pits Mar 17 02:52:15 XD Mar 17 02:54:40 this is funny, tar is compressing a tarball that's within a tarball that's being compressed that's in a tarball that's being compressing that's in a tarball that's being compressed....... Mar 17 02:56:55 * b-man wonders if the core is now starting to trigger fusion XD Mar 17 02:58:55 ...nope it imploded XD Mar 17 02:59:47 "tar: ./ubuntu_9.04_n8x0_rootfs.tgz: file changed as we read it" **** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Mar 17 02:59:57 2009