**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Mar 31 02:59:57 2009 Mar 31 04:01:16 howdy, anyone here using flipclock? Mar 31 04:33:41 how can I take pictures and audio recordings that have in their meta-data my current gps location? Mar 31 05:56:04 hm. trying to install nextenta Mar 31 05:56:28 it's a strange beast but once it actually runs, it's pretty nice Mar 31 05:57:19 i'm a little confused about the install Mar 31 05:57:32 the install disc uses a 32bit kernel. do you choose the 64bit one later or something? Mar 31 05:57:47 yeah, it autodetects afaik Mar 31 05:58:23 well.. i got an error during the install saying my raid was too large for a 32bit kernel Mar 31 05:58:30 maybe i can fix that later Mar 31 05:58:53 i'm going to use the nvidia sata on the mboard.. i guess it doesn't support the fakeraid i have Mar 31 05:59:08 Stskeeps: would you happen to know the difference between cifs and samba? Mar 31 05:59:32 i've been looking for information on it but it doesn't seem to exist :) Mar 31 06:00:21 * Meiz_n810 is sleeping on his desk Mar 31 06:00:42 Macor: two different implementations i think Mar 31 06:00:59 i see. i hope i don't have a problem using this entire raid Mar 31 06:01:07 Macor: if you have ZFS you don't want to have fakeraid anyway Mar 31 06:01:22 Stskeeps: yeah. that's what i hear Mar 31 06:01:41 i'm installing it now. i'm more concerned about the raid than anything :) i need to use the entire 7TB Mar 31 06:02:09 i just made an 8 TB raid 5 volume and hope i can get it all working sometime tomorrow Mar 31 06:03:31 hehe, once nexenta is setup it's a matter of zpool create, heh Mar 31 06:03:34 but that's another topic Mar 31 06:03:48 i would recommend going for raidz straight away Mar 31 06:04:02 as in, redundant, not striped Mar 31 06:04:46 well.. i'm working on it all now Mar 31 06:04:49 setting up the network now Mar 31 06:06:22 i really just don't want to have gone all the way through this to find out it will only use a 32bit kernel Mar 31 06:06:25 heh Mar 31 06:17:02 apt-clone = apt-get in hm Mar 31 06:18:03 anyone knows why it's so hard to find an N810 WiMAX lately? Mar 31 06:19:59 LiraNuna: they got EOL'ed Mar 31 06:20:09 EOL? Mar 31 06:20:14 end-of-life Mar 31 06:20:20 already?! Mar 31 06:20:46 yeah, there probably was some issues with sprint when they merged with clearwire Mar 31 06:21:23 software will still be present right? Mar 31 06:22:17 hmm? as in downloadable? yeah, but i don't think any of the tablets will be getting more Diablo updates Mar 31 06:23:03 hence the deblet project Mar 31 06:23:12 nah, hence the Mer project Mar 31 06:23:20 Mer? Mar 31 06:23:27 http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer Mar 31 06:24:28 so, deblet's discontinued? Mar 31 06:24:38 has someone done work to make Mer usable on a 480x272 display yet? Mar 31 06:24:39 wow i have never done this before Mar 31 06:24:49 and i am totally lost as to how i am supposed to create zpools Mar 31 06:24:57 i figured they were similar to lvm Mar 31 06:25:13 but i don't know what dev solaris uses for my raid card Mar 31 06:25:20 format -e is a good hint Mar 31 06:25:34 ds3: we have a new theme :P Mar 31 06:26:06 Stskeeps, I know you were (is?) involved in deblet development, is it discontinued? Mar 31 06:26:12 Stskeeps: is it drop in? I built this using a BB board and trying estimate how much effort it would take Mer to run on it - http://www.hy-research.com/misc/BeagleLCD2.jpg Mar 31 06:26:19 ds3: http://trac.tspre.org/meiz/screenshots/xephyr/480x800.png Mar 31 06:26:46 ds3: and pretty easily, but i don't know enough about the LCD interface. does xserver-xorg-video-omapfb work with it? Mar 31 06:27:10 LiraNuna: yeah, it's discontinued - it would hit a wall of power saving problems Mar 31 06:27:13 Stskeeps: Yes. I have Angstrom running on it right now Mar 31 06:27:34 and I can do all the kernel stuff; it is thee icon/layout userland stuff that I am trying to avoid spinning on Mar 31 06:27:53 LiraNuna: same as why i think the efforts in ubuntu on tablets are not good, they'll hit a wall as well, instead of contributing to mer :P Mar 31 06:28:13 and a lot of wasted effort for that eventual realization :P Mar 31 06:28:18 Stskeeps: is there somewhere you can direct me to in order to learn how to set up this zpool stuff? Mar 31 06:28:18 what is the problem with power management? Mar 31 06:28:27 Stskeeps:do you know if Mer will work if there is no Wifi? Mar 31 06:28:32 i need to mirror the 2nd nvidia sata drive and create a fs for the raid and mount it in /mnt/archive Mar 31 06:28:32 ds3: it'll work fine Mar 31 06:28:38 LiraNuna: people want a device that can idle for more then 7 hours Mar 31 06:28:48 ds3: we run it in vmware, heh Mar 31 06:28:53 cool... OMAP3 based MID! wheeee Mar 31 06:29:06 isn't maemo supposed to work 'up to 4 days' Mar 31 06:29:11 idle Mar 31 06:29:28 LiraNuna: yeah, - and that's similar approaches we take Mar 31 06:29:29 Stskeeps: nice... is there tarballs of the rootfs? (don't need it now, but nextweek I might give Mer a crack on my MID) Mar 31 06:29:48 ds3: yes, on monday the new UI will be published Mar 31 06:29:52 as 0.11 Mar 31 06:29:56 excellent Mar 31 06:29:57 Stskeeps, why can't you borrow code from maemo then? Mar 31 06:30:00 LiraNuna: we do Mar 31 06:30:12 i see the name of the device but don't understand where they are Mar 31 06:30:13 LiraNuna: but we also took some other choices, such as basing on top of ubuntu Mar 31 06:30:16 oh, \o/ Mar 31 06:30:20 woot Mar 31 06:30:22 they have these huge ass names.. like pci@e,923432 Mar 31 06:30:24 even better than debian Mar 31 06:30:29 Macor: ah, no, not those, the csomething ones Mar 31 06:30:37 LiraNuna: so we have entire pool of ubuntu software Mar 31 06:30:40 does Mer care if all the buttons are on one /dev/input/event device instead of being split out on the N8x0? Mar 31 06:30:42 LiraNuna, You can run big desktop-environments on Mer too Mar 31 06:30:49 well. there is c2t0d0 Mar 31 06:30:54 is that what you are talking about? Mar 31 06:31:05 ds3: you probably just need to adjust the xorg.conf Mar 31 06:31:22 I tried 3 stores lately and placed an order of n810 wimax, and they all refunded me with "out of stock" Mar 31 06:31:22 Macor: yeah, that's the device name Mar 31 06:31:32 I found another one, let's hope this one has some extras Mar 31 06:31:45 Macor: http://flux.org.uk/howto/solaris/zfs_tutorial_01 Mar 31 06:31:58 you don't point it to /dev/c2t0d0, you point it to c2t0d0 Mar 31 06:32:26 hm Mar 31 06:32:27 LiraNuna, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DThOHGb2rr0 Mar 31 06:32:30 :P Mar 31 06:32:32 ok.. i'm going to try to set up the mirror first Mar 31 06:32:43 Meiz_n810, you just answered my future question Mar 31 06:32:48 if KDE runs, GNOME will too! Mar 31 06:33:03 Not that easily Mar 31 06:33:05 :( Mar 31 06:33:29 but GNOME sucks on tablets even worse than KDE Mar 31 06:33:50 I still adore GNOME Mar 31 06:34:00 video is pretty fast Mar 31 06:34:04 at least for KDE ;P Mar 31 06:35:02 well.. that was easy enough :) Mar 31 06:35:26 creating fs's are a joy too Mar 31 06:35:28 LireNuna: Some GNOME packages confilct with Mer ones Mar 31 06:35:36 Meiz_n810, such as? Mar 31 06:35:48 "network manager" ? Mar 31 06:35:53 nah, we have that one Mar 31 06:36:00 basically, you'll be able to run the apps from GNOME, but the desktop itself isn't happy Mar 31 06:37:45 what's the problems encountered? Mar 31 06:37:55 basically incompatible package versions Mar 31 06:38:02 and osso-gnomevfs2 crap Mar 31 06:38:16 I thought gnomevfs is deprecated Mar 31 06:38:43 it still complains :P Mar 31 06:39:13 haha Mar 31 06:39:22 Ubuntus libvte9 doesn't like Mer i think Mar 31 06:39:26 that too Mar 31 06:39:34 how does Fennec working on it (if at all) Mar 31 06:39:48 as crappy as the maemo one Mar 31 06:40:03 sorry about the mass questions, I am trying to get my hands on an N810 for months now Mar 31 06:40:04 slow and crashes on heavy pages Mar 31 06:40:07 D: Mar 31 06:40:16 we have arora and midori, though Mar 31 06:40:30 epiphany-webkit? Mar 31 06:40:39 or that Mar 31 06:41:16 maybe not, midori or epiphany-webkit are not accepting coocies, are they? Mar 31 06:41:29 arora works fine though Mar 31 06:44:01 Stskeeps: i'm a little confused with this Mar 31 06:44:21 i have 2 same sized disks and i am trying to add the 2nd one to the first pool (the installed drive) Mar 31 06:44:29 is that possible while it is online? Mar 31 06:48:21 you can attach a disk that would be a mirror Mar 31 06:49:08 i'd spend a bit of time googling Mar 31 06:50:19 efi labeled devices are not supported on root pools Mar 31 06:50:21 wtf Mar 31 06:50:22 :) Mar 31 06:50:59 boot related stuff really Mar 31 06:51:05 i recommend having a syspool and a data pool Mar 31 06:52:14 morning qwerty12 Mar 31 06:52:24 hey Stskeeps Mar 31 06:52:50 did i dream it or did you mention something about fine-fm? Mar 31 06:53:05 (it's dangerous to have tablet beside you in bed) Mar 31 06:53:42 Lol, I can relate to that... but yes, your eyes did not deceive you for I did, I did! Mar 31 06:55:13 now, what was it? i saw that you found it but not if you got it to run or something :P Mar 31 06:55:44 Stskeeps: i am seperating them Mar 31 06:55:53 i'm just trying to figure out how to mirror the boot drive Mar 31 06:55:54 Well, seeing as I was the one who found the link, it'd be hard for me not to have found it ;). But I tried it in Maemo, it's pretty decent Mar 31 06:56:07 alright Mar 31 06:56:09 i'm a little lost as to how you add another disk to the pool and then force them to mirror one another Mar 31 06:56:11 scrshots? Mar 31 06:56:15 Macor: zpool attach Mar 31 06:56:22 Stskeeps: tried that ;) Mar 31 06:56:26 Lemme connect the N800 to my network and I'll x11vnc it Mar 31 06:57:07 efi labeled devices are not supported on root pools Mar 31 06:57:41 Macor: well is this your new pool, and not the syspool one? Mar 31 06:57:51 no.. this is the syspool Mar 31 06:57:56 which is on a disk on the onboard sata Mar 31 06:58:07 i have a 2nd disk of the same size and i want to mirror the boot drive to the 2nd one Mar 31 06:58:18 which is on the 2nd onboard sata controller Mar 31 06:58:25 device name? Mar 31 06:58:36 so i'm trying zpool attach c1t0d0 c1t1d0 Mar 31 06:58:38 and get that error Mar 31 06:59:08 and c1t1d0 is the new drive? Mar 31 06:59:37 yes... it is the same size as the 1st on the 2nd sata channel Mar 31 06:59:43 k Mar 31 06:59:54 i am trying to mirror c1t0d0 and c1t1d0 Mar 31 07:00:02 and c1t0d0 is the one that has the install on Mar 31 07:00:05 it Mar 31 07:00:16 zpool attach -f syspool attach c1t0d0 c1t1d0 Mar 31 07:00:20 er Mar 31 07:00:23 yeah Mar 31 07:00:27 tried that too ;) Mar 31 07:00:39 format -e c1t1d0 Mar 31 07:01:01 and select the SMI label Mar 31 07:01:14 er Mar 31 07:01:27 format -e c1t1d0, and then 'label', and then select SMI label Mar 31 07:02:27 * Stskeeps sighs and has a headache Mar 31 07:03:13 c1t1d0 gives an error saying this disk may be in use by an application that has modified the fdisk table Mar 31 07:03:20 heh Mar 31 07:03:25 ensure that this disk is ot currently in use before proceeding to use fdisk Mar 31 07:03:27 wtf :) Mar 31 07:03:31 anyway, explore it a bit Mar 31 07:03:39 it takes some time to get running at first but it's bliss afterwards Mar 31 07:03:40 how do i wipe the disk? Mar 31 07:04:02 replace it with zeroes using a bootcd or whatever :P Mar 31 07:07:30 ablahadfad Mar 31 07:11:20 http://www.engadget.com/2009/03/15/ubuntu-9-04-ported-to-nokias-n8x0-internet-tablets/ Mar 31 07:11:24 wah Mar 31 07:11:28 Stskeeps, http://qwerty12.maemobox.org/finefm.png Mar 31 07:12:26 LiraNuna: as i said earlier - it's basically mer without the hildon stuff Mar 31 07:12:37 100% open source Mar 31 07:12:39 LiraNuna: not made in a very structured way Mar 31 07:12:53 Stskeeps, I know, but it made me happy :( Mar 31 07:12:55 'giorno Mar 31 07:12:56 qwerty12: yeah, we should package that Mar 31 07:14:45 It wants some can't-be-found-on-the-internetz libogs library though Mar 31 07:14:57 hmm Mar 31 07:15:27 That said, the application starts up fine w/out it install (that's running from an extracted deb) Mar 31 07:15:41 Just won't compile. I'll see what can be done. Mar 31 07:15:46 wtf :P Mar 31 07:15:50 that seems to be a nokia thing Mar 31 07:16:18 Ah, you're right Mar 31 07:16:23 " Global Search Application core library" Mar 31 07:16:31 yeah Mar 31 07:17:01 looks like it's the "Find" button Mar 31 07:17:07 can probably be commented out Mar 31 07:17:24 LiraNuna: not a official port, btw :P Mar 31 07:17:27 Yeah, can be done easily. Mar 31 07:17:31 so don't bother the u-a people :> Mar 31 07:17:49 (i'm not even sure b-man can call it Ubuntu.) Mar 31 07:18:10 Stskeeps, I know, but still a step forward Mar 31 07:18:30 yeah, sure - i had a port running in july 2008 Mar 31 07:18:31 :P Mar 31 07:18:35 so it's an old effort Mar 31 07:18:58 Yeah, it's part of Nokia's "maemo-sdk-nokia-binaries_4.1.1" Mar 31 07:19:13 heh Mar 31 07:19:14 typical Mar 31 07:19:20 we can probably glue it in with tracker or something Mar 31 07:19:45 Easily removed, just #if 0 the evt_btn_find and its caller Mar 31 07:19:57 yeah Mar 31 07:21:09 i'm still amazed how many OSS replacements for maemo stuff that just lingers about Mar 31 07:26:37 wow Mar 31 07:26:42 does this apt-clone crap actually work Mar 31 07:26:48 i'm getting fopen: permission denied Mar 31 07:27:15 worked for me Mar 31 07:30:19 well.. it does but Mar 31 07:30:28 i keep getting fopen: permission denied for everything Mar 31 07:31:23 no clues Mar 31 07:31:29 * Stskeeps goes to sleep for an hour Mar 31 07:46:40 Morning, all Mar 31 07:48:28 Stskeeps: evidently you are supposed to pick both drives during the install :) Mar 31 07:48:32 how awesome is that? :) Mar 31 08:16:52 аlterego, ping Mar 31 08:17:49 svu, pong Mar 31 08:17:54 hehe Mar 31 08:18:55 hehe? Mar 31 08:20:17 * svu is looking for alterego actually Mar 31 08:20:44 Oh, hello :) Mar 31 08:20:59 I've made some progress but there's still some bugs in my packaging. Mar 31 08:21:17 Probably only another couple of hours work. I'll hopefully get around to tomorrow evening. Mar 31 08:23:49 alterego, thanks! sorry for pushing, but i guess it has to be done, for rubys sake ;) Mar 31 08:30:12 Im such an idiot. Ive wasted so much time trying to pair a bluetooth keyboard with my desktop and instead it was pairing with my n800 in the other room all this time. Mar 31 08:43:44 holy crap Mar 31 08:43:48 i am getting 100MB/s Mar 31 08:43:53 to the nexenta box Mar 31 08:44:15 whoa Mar 31 08:44:25 tank-man: lol Mar 31 08:44:39 holy shit Mar 31 08:45:38 Macor: what do you use nexenta for? Mar 31 08:45:58 for a fileserver now it seems ;) Mar 31 08:46:01 :) Mar 31 08:46:06 am going to add other things to it but it's a fileserver right now Mar 31 08:46:08 and it is FLYING Mar 31 08:46:12 apparently you have gig-e? Mar 31 08:46:16 i'm sustaining 103MB/s Mar 31 08:46:20 nice Mar 31 08:46:24 the nics are MAXED Mar 31 08:46:36 what kind of machine is it on? Mar 31 08:46:40 this is like the first time i've ever seen it go this fast Mar 31 08:47:23 dual dual core operton 1.8GHz with an intel gbit server nic 8G and an areca w 8x1TB raid Mar 31 08:48:44 ah :) Mar 31 08:55:00 svu, was just in a meeting. Don't worry about pushing me. I sometimes need a little nudge ;) Mar 31 08:57:04 Macor, if i read everything in iTT correctly, isnt the next nokia device gonna have similar stats :p Mar 31 08:57:15 haha Mar 31 08:57:31 lcuk, wont you look silly when it does. Mar 31 08:57:50 it will appear to anyway ;) Mar 31 08:58:27 i can just see the battery life: 30 seconds when idle, 4 seconds when in use Mar 31 08:59:41 Nokia's ace in the hole is the time machine they used to grab OMAP9s from 2025 Mar 31 09:00:06 o_O Mar 31 09:00:26 i heard the omap range died out in the silicon wars of 2018 Mar 31 09:01:06 by 2025 we had readjusted our computing power to run on silicone Mar 31 09:05:04 it was us, who scorched the sky. At the time we thought that the tablets couldn't survive without a power source as abundant as the sun Mar 31 09:14:11 morning Mar 31 09:14:24 anyone having troubles connecting to MSN these days? Mar 31 09:14:31 on-device that is Mar 31 09:15:22 good morning Mar 31 09:15:28 morning florian Mar 31 09:22:35 Macer: just be sure to sett it up as raidz or raidz2.. losing a whole pool to striping is nasty Mar 31 09:40:04 Stskeeps, finefm added to queue. I've also made some improvements to the code Mar 31 09:40:12 alright, much appreciated Mar 31 09:40:31 i won't add it to 0.11 image (feature freeze atm) but people can slowly test it by apt-getting it i guess Mar 31 09:40:41 cool Mar 31 09:40:45 ls Mar 31 09:40:50 oops Mar 31 09:40:59 thank god i copied an old home dir to my external hard drive Mar 31 09:40:59 heh Mar 31 09:41:28 hehe Mar 31 09:42:08 Macer: so ZFS is delivering as promised so far? :P Mar 31 09:44:01 hell yeah it is Stskeeps Mar 31 09:44:02 :) Mar 31 09:44:19 i think it's overall opensolaris that is actually... nic and disk io are screaming Mar 31 09:44:57 i think i will just set up the artigo for outside access and use nexenta for everything locally Mar 31 09:45:05 it is an incredibly redundant box Mar 31 09:45:16 now think for a second on the fact that it's actually delivering this performance whilst check-summing and doing safe disk transactions Mar 31 09:45:26 so it'll state immediately if there's disk corruption Mar 31 09:45:27 it's about time it started to go as fast as it should. what a total let down esxi turned out to be Mar 31 09:45:48 it has caught cable corruption with me quite often Mar 31 09:45:51 i need to install httpd .. named.. etc Mar 31 09:45:58 cable corruption? seriously? Mar 31 09:46:03 yeah - happens often Mar 31 09:46:24 it can detect ram errors this way too and warn you early before your pool goes up in flames, heh Mar 31 09:46:35 Stskeeps: thanks for recommending it Mar 31 09:46:41 it really is quite amazing Mar 31 09:47:01 yeah - some things are bloody irritating, such as ps elf instead of ps aux, but yeah Mar 31 09:47:07 and some packages not ported Mar 31 09:47:20 that's fine. i'm only using mainstream stuff anyways Mar 31 09:47:25 i need to put named on it Mar 31 09:47:27 but i'm actually talking to you from my nexenta installation :P Mar 31 09:47:33 heh.. so am i ;) Mar 31 09:47:47 if you discover how to make Xen work or other virtualization technologies, do say Mar 31 09:47:58 i don't think i'm going to take the virt route anymore Mar 31 09:48:09 maybe i will just learn how to jail or something.. but i think this is going to be my server from now on Mar 31 09:48:11 there's also solaris zones which may be worth looking into Mar 31 09:48:18 and i will just set up the artigo for outside people Mar 31 09:48:52 you can also export parts of the pool using iscsi Mar 31 09:48:54 thanks again. have to get ready for work ;) Mar 31 09:49:06 i've never used iscsi Mar 31 09:49:18 maybe later.. if it works out well i may try it out as a desktop Mar 31 09:49:19 heh Mar 31 09:49:19 very useful for virtualbox for instance, it can use it as a boot device, heh Mar 31 09:49:49 i love xfering stuff at 100MB/s ;) Mar 31 09:50:05 first time my gbit nic has been maxed out over my damn network because the stuff i have used sucks Mar 31 09:50:10 also, zpool scrub should be your best friend Mar 31 09:50:11 zfs ftw Mar 31 09:50:28 oh, and you should definately look into zfs snapshots Mar 31 09:52:55 * Meiz_n810 didn't have enough balls to irc during deutch test... Mar 31 09:56:26 Meiz_n810: welcome to adulthood Mar 31 09:56:45 i'm surprised you were even allowed to bring it Mar 31 09:56:45 :P Mar 31 09:57:41 I've got my French speaking test today, shouldn't take them long to tell me to GTFO knowing my French :P Mar 31 09:58:08 heh Mar 31 09:58:21 qwerty12: The builder has been revived again, so you can submit your package if you want ;) Mar 31 09:58:36 only way i passed french was cos i had a french guy over irc helping me through the year to understand some things Mar 31 09:59:20 X-Fade, the webkit one? Mar 31 09:59:30 X-Fade, you're only saying that because you're not in the building with it and wont be there when it explodes, eh? :P Mar 31 09:59:56 GeneralAntilles: I will be monitoring it ;) Mar 31 10:00:26 Damn! and this time I wanted to make it rm -rf / :( Mar 31 10:00:35 s/rm/run rm/ Mar 31 10:00:35 qwerty12 meant: Damn! and this time I wanted to make it run rm -rf / :( Mar 31 10:00:50 But it showed the need of more builders and more powerful ones.. Mar 31 10:00:50 With seismographs? Mar 31 10:01:03 X-Fade, did you show the stats to Nokia? Mar 31 10:01:19 GeneralAntilles: Which ones? Mar 31 10:01:26 X-Fade: we're doing some interesting experiments with OpenSUSE Build Service in Mer.. hopefully that'll be a solid foundation for Maemo&Mer builds eventually Mar 31 10:01:33 The ones where qwert12 brought down the builder. Mar 31 10:01:43 (we'll make a report/documentation on how good it actually is :P) Mar 31 10:01:48 Stskeeps: That won't work for us, because we need the nokia-binaries repo. Mar 31 10:01:59 Stskeeps: So that is a non-starter. Mar 31 10:02:16 X-Fade: local instances of OBS is possible or download-on-demand Mar 31 10:02:30 Stskeeps: But you are not allowed to do that ;) Mar 31 10:02:40 hmm. :P Mar 31 10:02:43 Well, with the token and all. Mar 31 10:03:12 yeah, there might be an issue in that Mar 31 10:03:30 But that can be solved by running OBS locally. Mar 31 10:03:48 yeah, it's one of the scenario requirements we have Mar 31 10:04:38 on the other hand it shouldn't be that difficult to implement a repository reference that's there but not visible of the specifics Mar 31 10:05:07 * Stskeeps sees how his pygtk build is going Mar 31 10:05:41 Stskeeps: I have a local copy of the nokia-binaries repo on the builder and have stripped the token out etc.. Mar 31 10:06:11 ah Mar 31 10:06:17 X-Fade, so I can reupload webkit? I've checked it properly, make runs with -j4 Mar 31 10:06:51 qwerty12: Sure. Although you won't see much gains with parallel builds on this one cpu vm ;) Mar 31 10:07:11 Lol, fair enough Mar 31 10:08:25 qwerty12: But somehow my ps list gave me screens and screens full of ./libtool g++ lines.. Mar 31 10:08:41 So that was not doing what it was supposed to ;) Mar 31 10:08:56 Yeah, that's disgusting, sorry about that. Mar 31 10:09:18 And the QT4.5 build which includes webkit doesn't have any problems with it. Mar 31 10:10:25 I'm about to hit enter, anyone want to say "Don't upload it you fucking bastard, I need to build my shit"? Mar 31 10:10:50 Anyway, it is running again and Tero is painfully aware of the need of some better builder hardware. Mar 31 10:10:51 qwerty12: at least it's not bluez-test or glib.. Mar 31 10:10:51 :P Mar 31 10:11:13 qwerty12: Maybe you can let the queue clear up a bit before resubmitting ;) Mar 31 10:11:18 X-Fade: curious, you just use qemu-arm as cpu transparency? Mar 31 10:11:21 Ctrl-C it is :) Mar 31 10:11:50 Stskeeps: cvs-m version.. Mar 31 10:12:07 k Mar 31 10:12:48 And we now use the newer scratchbox version (fremantle alpha one) for diablo and chinook too. Mar 31 10:12:51 Hopefully we get new hardware before the beta comes out. Mar 31 10:15:03 X-Fade, you'll probably want to delete https://garage.maemo.org/builder/diablo/webkit_1.0-svn41128-1maemo1/results/libwebkit-1.0-1-dbg_1.0-svn41128-1maemo1_armel.deb - 152mb... Mar 31 10:18:45 qwerty12: Why is that thing so big? :) Mar 31 10:19:55 It's debug symbols. If I allow dh_strip to strip them, it defeats the point of the package. Although I have no problems in stopping that package being made :) Mar 31 10:20:49 sTs: i had an snv zone hosting nexenta for two years Mar 31 10:21:11 After i fix my mbp, i'll go back to re-implementing that Mar 31 10:23:30 xFade: -j should help w/ disk i/o v. Processing Mar 31 10:24:12 timelE61i: Yeah, but there are multiple builds of multiple packages running on the same machine. Mar 31 10:24:26 So it won't do you any good in practice. Mar 31 10:26:49 how weak is the box? Mar 31 10:27:31 timelE61i: very. Mar 31 10:47:49 * rmt wonders if adding user ALL = (ALL) ALL to /etc/sudoers could be stopping the device from booting.. didn't think about it.. but killed it again.. so reflashed again.. checked that rebooting worked fine.. installed openssh, fbreader repository, skype, omweather.. also change'd user's passwd and added the line to /etc/sudoers Mar 31 10:47:56 Any of these the clear cause of the issue? Mar 31 10:48:26 rmt: probably because you didn't add NOPASSWD Mar 31 10:48:43 Stskeeps: Would that then override the other sudo options? Mar 31 10:48:45 yes Mar 31 10:48:53 Okay, then that's it. Mar 31 10:49:07 Ahah, the last match is used, says man sudoers Mar 31 10:50:45 Well, hopefully this is the last time I need to flash this in a long time, then. :) Mar 31 10:57:34 anybody run n8x0 kernel in qemu? Does qemu support any audio devices in arm? Mar 31 11:05:10 alrighty Mar 31 11:05:32 let me see about getting named installed in this nexenta Mar 31 11:06:38 kulve, is hwr around, he runs qemu stuff lots i believe and should be able to tell you Mar 31 11:08:37 hrw Mar 31 11:10:30 that would be it Mar 31 11:10:31 lol Mar 31 11:10:58 thanks Stskeeps Mar 31 11:11:12 Stskeeps: this os is awesome Mar 31 11:11:28 i need to set up bind on it but it is great Mar 31 11:12:16 power of solaris with the ease of use of ubuntu server :P Mar 31 11:12:23 i really wish i had it for ARM. :P Mar 31 11:12:49 what pkg is nfs in? Mar 31 11:13:00 thought it was nfs-utils Mar 31 11:13:13 yah. it is awesome =) Mar 31 11:13:27 nfs .. hmm Mar 31 11:13:35 i am still shocked at the 103MB/s xfers over smb Mar 31 11:13:44 Ok.. also have /home/user on nfs now.. just need the pkg list to be backed up regularly, and it should be a relatively easy job to fix if I kill it again. Mar 31 11:13:47 the nic was the bottleneck Mar 31 11:13:56 my gbit nic was maxed Mar 31 11:14:17 Macer: http://blogs.sun.com/dbx/entry/installing_nexenta_gnu_solaris_on Mar 31 11:16:32 think that url is wrong Stskeeps Mar 31 11:17:50 nm Mar 31 11:17:53 my bad Mar 31 11:20:28 lcuk: thanks Mar 31 11:21:12 Stskeeps: are you running X on it? Mar 31 11:21:26 like.. xfce or gnome? Mar 31 11:21:47 nah Mar 31 11:21:49 headless Mar 31 11:21:49 hello maemo'ers Mar 31 11:21:58 or whats the term? :) Mar 31 11:22:08 i see. the nfs seems rather simple but im at work Mar 31 11:22:09 maemoids? Mar 31 11:22:24 i will set it up when i get home Mar 31 11:23:25 Stskeeps: that sounds right :) Mar 31 11:24:43 so how's rygel coming along? Mar 31 11:28:40 areca 6.2T 148G 6.1T 3~ /mnt/archive Mar 31 11:28:46 i love it Mar 31 11:29:17 beast... so what does it do.. just create the fs on the fly? Mar 31 11:29:45 can i see a zpool status of that? :P Mar 31 11:29:54 (pastebin) Mar 31 11:30:07 uhm Mar 31 11:30:20 im on my g1 but i will try Mar 31 11:34:22 http://pastebin.com/d63020012 Mar 31 11:34:30 there really isnt much there Mar 31 11:34:59 ah, that's the fakeraid or? Mar 31 11:36:27 my areca Mar 31 11:36:39 hw raid Mar 31 11:36:57 Macer: which areca? Mar 31 11:37:06 1120 pci-x Mar 31 11:37:15 8 port sata Mar 31 11:37:30 re Mar 31 11:37:45 how does zfs make the fs? Mar 31 11:37:59 it reminds me of lvm without mkfs Mar 31 11:38:17 zfs create poolname/fs Mar 31 11:38:32 i didnt do that Mar 31 11:38:35 it shares the space within the pool Mar 31 11:38:41 the way of FSes are a bit different Mar 31 11:38:43 i just mounted the one it made Mar 31 11:38:46 yeah, there's a top FS Mar 31 11:38:54 i see Mar 31 11:39:16 i sont understand how it formats it though Mar 31 11:39:28 no such thing Mar 31 11:39:30 is there just no need to format it? Mar 31 11:39:32 i see Mar 31 11:39:41 i can recommend reading up a bit on it Mar 31 11:39:46 creates it all on the fly? Mar 31 11:39:57 yeah, a fs is just a record inside the pool Mar 31 11:40:02 Macer: hehe, you could install linux _on_ the raid card :) Mar 31 11:40:26 suihkulokki: why? i have nexenta Mar 31 11:40:34 it is kicking ass =) Mar 31 11:41:00 Macer: you can't install nexenta on the card :) Mar 31 11:41:06 the raid is strictly storage. the sw raiding zfs does is very redundant Mar 31 11:41:39 i want the entire raid for storage anyways. i have 2 mirroresd 80G drives for the os Mar 31 11:42:15 Macer: trust me, you want the raiding zfs does over what the card does Mar 31 11:42:33 so if you have a way to show all drives as a JBOD, and then base a pool on those drives Mar 31 11:42:42 it has excellent i/o scheduling Mar 31 11:42:55 well. the nic is the bottleneck anyways Mar 31 11:43:04 at some point of time the fastest arm processors were the IOP cores, which most usually found on raid cards Mar 31 11:43:08 is there a way for me to test io speeds? Mar 31 11:43:30 so joked about installing linux/arm these raid controllers Mar 31 11:43:51 Macer: zpool iostat -v is a good way to check it i guess Mar 31 11:43:51 think the areca uses an intel Mar 31 11:44:13 yes, intel iop331 - a arm Mar 31 11:45:09 that only works during a read or write Mar 31 11:45:14 heh Mar 31 11:45:45 i dont feel like doing an xfer... takes too long to type it on the g1 Mar 31 11:45:51 hehe Mar 31 11:45:58 i dont even use my n800 anymore Mar 31 11:46:09 the qwerty makes all the difference Mar 31 11:46:56 i'm in dire need of a n800, heh. saw my video? :> Mar 31 11:47:01 (no idea if your g1 does youtube) Mar 31 11:47:21 qwerty is overrated, im waiting for the nokia n930 which includes your own personal secretary for dictation and typing services Mar 31 11:47:40 Macer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcm5TYGwTwU Mar 31 11:48:40 Stskeeps, does that scroll the opposite way if you move to the southern hemisphere? Mar 31 11:48:55 lcuk: no clue. i wonder on the effect of rotation too. Mar 31 11:48:58 Stskeeps: it does Mar 31 11:49:07 it might make an impressive (but expensively impractical) bookreader :D Mar 31 11:50:21 timeless, ping? Mar 31 11:51:01 Stskeeps: wtf Mar 31 11:51:09 @youtube movie Mar 31 11:51:23 aquatix: yeah, it makes things a little more difficult. occasionally it's stable thoug. Mar 31 11:51:55 wtf Mar 31 11:52:13 it reminds me of an old tv Mar 31 11:52:27 that you had to turn sync knobs on heh Mar 31 11:52:29 yeah Mar 31 11:52:45 Stskeeps: do you need an n800? Mar 31 11:53:04 that works =) Mar 31 11:54:34 yeah, cos i can't really test Xomap stuff anymore, heh Mar 31 11:55:03 well... you can have mine Mar 31 11:55:32 consider it my contribution to your cause Mar 31 11:55:45 it is collecting dust anyways Mar 31 11:55:45 could be good - just worried about shipping Mar 31 11:55:57 well... where are you? Mar 31 11:55:59 since i'm in .dk Mar 31 11:56:08 oh crap lol Mar 31 11:56:18 but i have chargers and all that crap already Mar 31 11:56:30 im in chicago Mar 31 11:56:30 so it would really just be the tablet Mar 31 11:56:43 lol: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFBciWwT04w Mar 31 11:56:56 i can send it usps not sure how long it would take to get there Mar 31 11:57:20 probably 2-3 weeks if they even go there Mar 31 11:57:22 ah, i don't mind the waiting time Mar 31 11:57:24 and yes, they do :P Mar 31 11:57:30 haha Mar 31 11:57:43 aquatix: wtf Mar 31 11:57:46 well.. i'll msg you Mar 31 11:58:13 Macer: Probably a day of 4 with usps. Mar 31 11:58:36 just be sure to mark it as gift :P Mar 31 12:00:41 really? Mar 31 12:00:50 or do they tax you? =) Mar 31 12:01:20 bbl Mar 31 12:01:24 they'll tax a little bit but we'll see what happens Mar 31 12:01:36 danish P.O are assholes so Mar 31 12:01:52 haha... here too ;) Mar 31 12:02:28 * lcuk sends stskeeps n envelope full of expensive air as a gift Mar 31 12:02:40 but forgets to mark it as a gift and leaves the RRP on it Mar 31 12:03:25 hmm, seeing M5 running on beagleboard got me interested. not sure if i like the ui, but still, im interested Mar 31 12:03:57 funny how the scroll bars are still small tho, given how everything else seems scaled for finger use Mar 31 12:04:22 doesnt matter how largeg the scroll bars are if the entire area is grabbable Mar 31 12:04:27 * lcuk doesnt know if it is tho Mar 31 12:05:19 t_s_o, the alpha UI isn't the final UI Mar 31 12:05:44 But, yes, the whole area should be dragable and flickable Mar 31 12:06:13 * lcuk flicks GeneralAntilles Mar 31 12:06:25 heh, that full screen close animation kinda surprised me btw Mar 31 12:07:48 t_s_o, surprised me as well, it simply wouldnt run on my tabletpc, i only saw it once VDVsx made a video Mar 31 12:08:19 it was actually faster using a VNC session from someone over the internet than it was locally on my machine! Mar 31 12:12:03 spambot? :> :P Mar 31 12:37:00 hey everybody Mar 31 12:37:06 hey wazd Mar 31 12:37:53 we solved the marquee problem we had.. you know, we wondered why the background didn't work on it? Mar 31 12:38:46 turns out we got tricked. the reason why it was black, is because the wallpaper was centered, and we were on a 800x600 screen, with a 800x480 wallpaper ;p Mar 31 12:38:49 guess out how it looks Mar 31 12:38:59 ha) Mar 31 13:00:53 What do you think bout new OSM2GO icon? http://s47.radikal.ru/i117/0903/2c/4d52a0d9120d.png Mar 31 13:02:02 hehe, neat Mar 31 13:02:11 wazd: cute Mar 31 13:02:19 what's OSM2GO? :) Mar 31 13:02:43 opensource software for map creation Mar 31 13:02:54 one of the Fremantle Stars :) Mar 31 13:02:59 ah check :) Mar 31 13:24:36 dneary, Happy birthday :P Mar 31 13:28:15 oh) Mar 31 13:28:34 Happy B-day Dneary! Mar 31 13:30:56 hi Mar 31 13:31:12 I wonder if we'll have a say in the official strings with the community translations for Harmattan. Mar 31 13:37:06 ds3, ping? Mar 31 13:58:31 wazd: http://zenvoid.org/tmp/mer-new-layout/WIP_20090331_1.png Mar 31 13:59:59 nice Mar 31 14:02:14 X-Fade: I think my wormux build is still stuck https://garage.maemo.org/builder/diablo/wormux_0.8.3-1maemo2/ Mar 31 14:03:12 mikkov___274: It got killed off when we needed to reboot the machine ;) Mar 31 14:03:14 Stskeeps: nice, but close button is too big now) Mar 31 14:03:37 wazd: 90px wide Mar 31 14:03:56 Stskeeps: Icon I mean Mar 31 14:03:59 ah Mar 31 14:04:11 we remade it in inkscape so it was more resizable Mar 31 14:04:24 come in #mer and discuss with me and zenvoid on improvements :P Mar 31 14:05:51 hi wazd, thanks Mar 31 14:05:56 And VDVsx Mar 31 14:10:10 Stskeeps: hm, the various fades in the top bar don't look that nice to me; makes it a bit grayish Mar 31 14:10:22 and it reminds me of the winxp bar :) Mar 31 14:10:55 dneary: a belated Happy Birthday :) Mar 31 14:11:15 not headed for the pub yet?! Mar 31 14:11:44 Stskeeps: you get an odd fopen permission denied error in nexenta? Mar 31 14:11:52 Macer: i haven't dist-upgraded recently Mar 31 14:13:50 Hi Mar 31 14:14:32 I am very interested on the the idea of "Enhance the OpenCV's maemo port " Mar 31 14:14:48 cant get i did to begin with Mar 31 14:15:17 Who can tell me where should I to start it Mar 31 14:15:49 * RST38h feels like starting a rumor today Mar 31 14:16:48 Let us say, RX-51 is definitely going to have an OLED display, that is why Maemo5 SDK theme is so dark Mar 31 14:17:32 We're living in dark times. :) Mar 31 14:17:54 Stskeeps: shiny screenshot Mar 31 14:21:29 RST38h, it's transflective. Mar 31 14:21:39 At least as far as one can divine from the part numbers Mar 31 14:35:38 fixed it Mar 31 14:35:44 nexenta is awesome Mar 31 14:35:44 roope, its not that dark, spring is coming! Mar 31 14:36:08 i mean... just simply... awesome =) Mar 31 14:36:08 lcuk: We just got three inches of snow. Mar 31 14:36:09 *poing* Mar 31 14:36:10 those bright oranges on the new maemo website are like vodka for your eyes :D Mar 31 14:36:32 lol timsamoff haha, we had snow over hte weekend Mar 31 14:36:45 by dinner time the same day people were setting up bbqs Mar 31 14:36:54 english folks and sunshine are mental :| Mar 31 14:36:58 lcuk: Thankfully rain and wamrth have all but melted it already. Mar 31 14:37:54 happy birthday dneary \o Mar 31 14:38:03 Hi there Mar 31 14:38:15 Is there a party here? Mar 31 14:38:15 :D Mar 31 14:38:34 i dunno, but ill let you buy a round of drinks anyway Mar 31 14:38:35 dneary: happy birthday!! :D Mar 31 14:38:42 lcuk: ahah :D Mar 31 14:38:56 lcuk: I usually pour the vodka right on my eyes. :p Mar 31 14:38:59 lcuk: alchool or soft drinks? :P Mar 31 14:39:30 timsamoff: pour it of throw it at your eyes, missing your mouth, when you've had a few too many? ;) Mar 31 14:39:36 s/of/or Mar 31 14:39:41 Hmf. Mar 31 14:39:51 :) Mar 31 14:40:49 thats the voice of experience if ever i heard it Mar 31 14:41:00 ;) Mar 31 14:41:03 * timsamoff can't believe his bad reputation. Mar 31 14:41:25 and people are looking up to you being on the council and all :) Mar 31 14:41:31 General: you are spoiling the rumor :) Mar 31 14:41:55 * lardman still thinks etrunko's late entrance for the presentation was classic :D Mar 31 14:42:25 * timsamoff thinks it won't be etrunko's last late entrance. Mar 31 14:43:04 lol Mar 31 14:43:26 unbelievable how it worked Mar 31 14:43:34 :p Mar 31 14:43:37 even without planning anything Mar 31 14:43:46 "there's this guy, Eduardo Lima..." Mar 31 14:43:49 "oh" Mar 31 14:43:54 "there he is" Mar 31 14:44:10 we were far less polite before you came in :p Mar 31 14:44:17 Ha ha. No, remember... We planned for 5 minutes between sessions. Mar 31 14:44:20 lardman: i saw the video Mar 31 14:44:30 konttori_: not aimed at you, don't worry :) Mar 31 14:44:49 etrunko: damn! :) Mar 31 14:45:23 "council members gone wild" Mar 31 14:45:40 * lcuk shudders Mar 31 14:45:57 timsamoff: its just a matter of having presentations in the afternoon.. Mar 31 14:46:07 lcuk: Wishing you were at our hotel to see it. :p Mar 31 14:46:21 etrunko: that is so true Mar 31 14:46:55 * timsamoff will remember that for next time. Mar 31 14:47:27 moo wazd Mar 31 14:48:40 RST38h: hey :) Mar 31 14:49:27 RST38h: can you draw in paint or something the layout that device selector should have? Mar 31 14:53:00 Thanks gnuton, lcuk Mar 31 15:01:38 dneary: :D Mar 31 15:03:57 Have fun everyone. Catch you later. Mar 31 15:28:26 heh, the "which it device do you own" poll should have had RX-51 and RX-71 in it and "prototype" Mar 31 15:43:37 Ugh Mar 31 15:43:43 Foiled by benny1967 again Mar 31 15:43:47 mm? Mar 31 15:44:16 I keep typing out these long replies to her questions and forgetting she has me on ignore. Mar 31 15:44:37 ah Mar 31 15:45:24 GeneralAntilles, benny is a girl? Mar 31 15:45:41 lcuk, as far as I can tell. Mar 31 15:45:59 I COULD be wrong, but that's the impression I've gotten. Mar 31 15:46:21 (I'm likely wrong, I would've sworn krisse was a dude even after Quim corrected me twice. ;)) Mar 31 15:46:23 GeneralAntilles: what did you do to offend him/her? ;) Mar 31 15:46:31 GeneralAntilles, he's a guy :P Mar 31 15:46:36 lardman, just my charming personality. Mar 31 15:46:47 qwerty12: that's probably why he's offended :D Mar 31 15:46:57 lol :D Mar 31 15:47:10 * Myrtti is glad about not being active on any discussion forums these days Mar 31 15:47:11 GeneralAntilles: you didn't order him to write a blog post or anything nasty like that? :) Mar 31 15:47:38 lardman, no, but your blog posts have now been converted to some sort of beverage. :P Mar 31 15:48:03 That voting thread is a funny thing. I'd never have pictured myself as such a polarizer. Mar 31 15:48:13 Myrtti: i check iTT while having my morning coffee. that scares me sometimes. Mar 31 15:48:28 GeneralAntilles: blog posts?! Mine are like unicorns Mar 31 15:48:47 Stskeeps: I used to be a moderator of one of the biggest discussion forums in Finland Mar 31 15:49:07 So, what, 8 people? :P Mar 31 15:49:08 (that is fabled and non-existant, not white and horny) Mar 31 15:49:10 Stskeeps: technically I might still be Mar 31 15:50:16 lardman, beware - Myrtti has a thing for unicorns, she might come hunting Mar 31 15:51:20 GeneralAntilles: we're including "Drag lock" patch for mer 0.11, heh :) Mar 31 15:51:49 Stskeeps: nice :) Mar 31 15:52:00 waiting for pygtk to build so i can actually test it.. Mar 31 15:52:00 :P Mar 31 15:52:38 Build a simple C applet Mar 31 15:53:20 yes, but homeip is so excellent Mar 31 15:53:57 anyone have any comments on the barcode GSoC page I put up? Mar 31 15:55:37 lardman, link Mar 31 15:55:54 http://wiki.maemo.org/GSoC_2009/Barcode_scanner Mar 31 15:56:21 ta, Stskeeps drag lock, is that to stop applet madness, or to make it that bit more random Mar 31 15:56:30 to make the applets stay in place Mar 31 15:56:31 (drag lock on desktop is odd!) Mar 31 15:56:54 then its not drag lock is it? what was it called in os2007 Mar 31 15:57:05 layout mode Mar 31 15:57:18 Definition of: drag lock. The ability to lock onto a screen object so that it can be dragged with the mouse without continuously holding down the mouse ( Mar 31 15:57:32 ah Mar 31 16:01:09 lardman, have you seen or spoken with lbt - he has a really good suggestion that the barcode scanner expose a DBUS signal upon identification, that way any listening programs can react - barcode scanning *could* in theory be inserted right at the core of the gstreamer stack to allow global barcode availablility Mar 31 16:01:36 yes I saw that mentioned on the maemo-devel list, sounds like a good idea Mar 31 16:02:16 in theory it does, but whether or not its gonna be useful actually, shopper already would have to modify its UI to show hide the camera anyway Mar 31 16:02:27 lardman: Unless the student has lots of image processing experience (which for an undergrad would be surprising), I would suggest that 1) would probably not be a good idea. Mar 31 16:02:31 unless of course just opening up the main camera app does it Mar 31 16:03:02 derf: agreed, I just wanted to list all the things I think could be done Mar 31 16:03:28 Okay. Just saying you may want to put some caveats there, and possibly not list it first. Mar 31 16:03:35 derf: not really worth doing 1) atm anyway, as the existing codes are fine (if a bit slow in some cases). More of an academic project Mar 31 16:03:36 derf, i agree, but if the framework could be hammered to get decent 1d scanning using a plugin type class structure it can be expanded on with relative ease Mar 31 16:04:55 lardman, do you think the devil keeps an N8x0 handy and sans everyones souls Mar 31 16:05:01 scans Mar 31 16:05:27 * lcuk likes 3.3.5 :D Mar 31 16:05:57 no point in limiting ourselves Mar 31 16:06:21 agreed there Mar 31 16:07:13 most of the barcode processing ive done was with zapper guns and it simply returned the code as a string for entry in the syste mat the correct place Mar 31 16:07:44 yeah, the gun acts as a keyboard and sends the ascii codes Mar 31 16:08:49 Anyway, do feel free to add comments, things I've missed out, etc Mar 31 16:09:13 hi! Mar 31 16:09:14 I just thought that any GSoC students should really focus on something useful rather than re-inventing the wheel Mar 31 16:09:59 yeah thats positively agreed Mar 31 16:10:38 anyone know what the default device lock pass is? Mar 31 16:11:08 it has a lock? Mar 31 16:11:10 on n810 Mar 31 16:11:17 yes Mar 31 16:11:22 press the power button Mar 31 16:11:29 1234 Mar 31 16:11:29 * lcuk has had n810 for over 12 months now and has never seen a pass Mar 31 16:11:30 then select lock device Mar 31 16:11:34 oh, i never use that Mar 31 16:11:35 or 0000 Mar 31 16:11:45 but dont enter it wrong twice Mar 31 16:11:47 My point was, to really do things properly, you need an integrated detector that is looking for _all_ of the formats at once. None of the one-off "recognize this specific format" libraries are structured like that, so to build such a thing requires a lot of work. Mar 31 16:11:49 or it locks forever Mar 31 16:11:56 Hi, I ran this command "apt-get remove docpurge" does this sound safe? its asking to remove 2 packages "docpurge osso-software-version-rx34" Mar 31 16:12:07 derf, you just became the norton antivirus of barcode detectors! Mar 31 16:12:09 Stskeeps: none work Mar 31 16:12:16 tank-man: why do you want to remove docpurge? :P Mar 31 16:12:25 cause i want help files Mar 31 16:12:31 it doesnt resurrect them Mar 31 16:12:48 well for new programs i install from now on , i want help files for them Mar 31 16:12:51 ah Mar 31 16:13:12 derf: the way zxing does it is to use quick and dirty identifier functions, I suggest that in 1.5 Mar 31 16:13:13 specifically for maxima ( a math CAS program) Mar 31 16:13:19 I mean, a lot of this stuff is very similar... looking for black/white/black/etc. segments with lengths of these approximate ratios... Mar 31 16:13:24 GOT IT!!!!!!!! Mar 31 16:13:26 it was 12345 Mar 31 16:13:29 There is no reason you should not be looking for all of those simultaneously. Mar 31 16:13:39 tank-man, move /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/99-docpurge Mar 31 16:13:44 i do agree Mar 31 16:13:55 tank-man, then it won't run when you install something Mar 31 16:14:03 thanks qwerty12 ill look into that file Mar 31 16:14:10 derf: it's probably simpler (and therefore easier to write and make it work) to work from the easy cases up wards in complexity Mar 31 16:14:32 and i wonder if - like with a virus scan - you can split detecftion into 2 phases, quick identification followed by indepth confirmation - which is basically what lardman said up there as well Mar 31 16:14:42 derf: so 1D is pretty trivial, no point in doing all the thresholding business needed for a 2D pattern if it turns out that 1D can do it Mar 31 16:15:02 i.e. threshold just the one line of pixels, not the whole image Mar 31 16:15:04 lardman: You're still assuming that there's only one code in the image. Mar 31 16:15:11 derf: true Mar 31 16:15:17 Which is emphatically not true in real images. Mar 31 16:15:48 theres an advert some magazines for a camera i think, and its facial recognition has highlighted about 20 faces in the pic Mar 31 16:16:03 QR codes even have a fun mode called "Double QR" that has a smaller QR code embedded in a larger code. Mar 31 16:16:05 really neat :) Mar 31 16:16:12 So you can't even assume they don't overlap! Mar 31 16:16:13 if it can be made to work fast enough then fine, otherwise go the easy route and get something that works Mar 31 16:16:33 derf: but once you've recognised that it's a QR you can process that extra stuff? Mar 31 16:16:44 Well, that is what I'm currently doing. Mar 31 16:17:02 good good :) Mar 31 16:17:10 how long does the decoder take? Mar 31 16:17:16 qr is identified by the 3 corner unitsw isnt it - those act like the guard bars on a standard EAN code? Mar 31 16:17:25 ~10% longer than zxing for codes they both successfully recognize. Mar 31 16:17:39 what kind of order of magnitude are we talking? Mar 31 16:18:29 I haven't benchmarked it on the actual device with camera-sized images. Mar 31 16:18:31 Stupid cat Mar 31 16:18:42 Or even at all without the overhead of PNG decoding. Mar 31 16:18:51 I guess porting the whole of ZXing to C/C++ is an option; or obtaining GCC with a java compiler of course Mar 31 16:18:59 Let's just say PNG decoding is a significant fraction of it. Mar 31 16:19:04 ok Mar 31 16:19:53 derf, "camera sized images" - n8x0 webcam, or proper multi mpixel? Mar 31 16:20:09 lcuk: N8x0 camera. Mar 31 16:20:26 fair enough Mar 31 16:20:38 jhg Mar 31 16:21:03 Image size makes a large difference for the detection. It's not nearly as important for decoding. Mar 31 16:22:06 libpng would like to strongly disagree with you :P Mar 31 16:23:38 Anyway, my point was that it is, in fact, very important to limit a GSoC project to something a student can reasonably be expected to do. Mar 31 16:23:58 And students are not very good judges of what they can actually do. Mar 31 16:24:10 I guess so, but don't they choose depending on what they think they can do? Mar 31 16:24:18 ah, I see :) Mar 31 16:24:41 lardman: Students have spent years having projects spoon fed to them that are designed to be exactly appropriate for their current skill level. Mar 31 16:25:03 I honestly think some of them have never even considered that they might not be able to do some proposed task. Mar 31 16:25:34 well the problem I have is that I know what I think should be done, and I'd just do it myself if I had the time Mar 31 16:25:51 Yes. You cannot treat GSoC projects like that. Mar 31 16:25:52 heh, - i'm a student programmer at a research project. we've ended up concluding our job description is to "figure out how to do the impossible and then do it" Mar 31 16:26:00 and as people have chosen to look at barcode stuff, I thought I should at least stick my oar in and say what I think needs doing Mar 31 16:26:47 I mean, you never know... sometimes you get a truly exceptional student. Mar 31 16:26:54 But they're usually in high demand. Mar 31 16:28:01 I do wonder really at some of the timelines, all seem to be very relaxed Mar 31 16:28:20 considering they will be working full time on the projects Mar 31 16:29:56 In my experience $4500 and no accountability means it's very unlikely they will actually work anything like a real full-time schedule, though of course they will all claim to. Mar 31 16:30:20 yeah, bit of an issue that, unless they really love the thing they are going to work on Mar 31 16:30:34 Right. That's what you really have to be selecting for. Mar 31 16:30:47 *sniffles* Mar 31 16:30:48 You want the guy who would be doing this stuff anyway. Mar 31 16:30:51 but looking at some of the plans, they don't actually realise what is extant, which sort of says they are looking for anything to do Mar 31 16:31:35 Yeah, those guys are pretty hard to find, while the "looking for anything to do" students are quite common. Mar 31 16:31:54 I say we tie lardman to a chair for the Summer. :P Mar 31 16:32:13 I'd pay $5 to make that happen. Mar 31 16:32:24 GeneralAntilles: I promise to do some programming soon Mar 31 16:32:53 not sure my fiancée would appreciate me not making to the wedding as I'm tied to a chair programming mind you :) Mar 31 16:33:04 What good are promises when we can guarantee it by force? :D Mar 31 16:33:09 lol Mar 31 16:33:26 that's why I daren't turn up to the mini-summit in May ;) Mar 31 16:34:07 * Myrtti has seen quite many good projects in the Finnish equivalent of GSoC Mar 31 16:34:16 anyway, home time, I might even manage to get past the wedding organisation stuff (Windows) and boot my Linux box and write some code Mar 31 16:34:23 cu guys (& girls) later Mar 31 16:34:28 Bye Mar 31 16:34:53 btw, anyone is planning to reach SPB FRUCT?) Mar 31 16:44:35 re Mar 31 16:47:22 * GeneralAntilles contemplates wiki cleanup Mar 31 16:51:29 theres a mini-summit in May? :P Mar 31 16:52:49 where'd you pick that up? :P Mar 31 17:00:12 Alright, that was short lived. Mar 31 17:01:19 mm? Mar 31 17:01:40 I tried to get the hidden category template working Mar 31 17:01:52 but Wikipedia templates quickly branch out into template hell Mar 31 17:02:03 Not dissimilar from dependency hell. Mar 31 18:13:45 X-Fade: ping Mar 31 18:28:04 * RST38h yawns Mar 31 18:28:56 okay Mar 31 18:29:06 i have bt & wifi working Mar 31 18:29:33 now, join gentoo on n8x0 or surrender :D Mar 31 18:30:16 yes, but we have glitzy ui :P Mar 31 18:30:46 http://zenvoid.org/tmp/mer-new-layout/WIP_20090331_1.png Mar 31 18:30:58 Stskeeps, it's just a question of writing ebuilds Mar 31 18:31:06 hehe Mar 31 18:31:24 btw Mar 31 18:32:09 Don't love the toolbar gradient Mar 31 18:32:10 there's a GSoC project on putting maemo into openembedded as well Mar 31 18:32:14 Flat like Echo is nicer Mar 31 18:32:27 Stskeeps, when wpa_supplicant shuts down, it does something nasty to cx3110x making it unload firmware. do you have any workaround? Mar 31 18:32:28 GeneralAntilles: yeah.. we have some problems with gradient atm Mar 31 18:32:42 slonopotamus: does it do ifconfig wlan0 down? :P Mar 31 18:33:17 Stskeeps, it does something :) i didn't understand what exactly yet Mar 31 18:33:51 Stskeeps, we already have proposals for that project :P Mar 31 18:34:07 Stskeeps, and the only way i found to restore firmware - rmmod && modprobe Mar 31 18:34:21 VDVsx: anywhere visible if you need comments? Mar 31 18:34:28 i can quickly say if it's realistic :P Mar 31 18:34:33 Stskeeps, but that's kinda ugly Mar 31 18:34:40 slonopotamus: ifconfig wlan0 up? :P Mar 31 18:34:49 Stskeeps, not yet, only a draft Mar 31 18:34:59 Stskeeps, that doesn't load firmware back Mar 31 18:35:59 slonopotamus: think it does Mar 31 18:36:42 Stskeeps, oh, and i'm updating to gcc-4.3.2 :) Mar 31 18:36:45 hehe Mar 31 18:45:25 Stskeeps, oh, all the time forget to ask you. do you have sound in mer? Mar 31 18:45:31 slonopotamus: not yet, do you? Mar 31 18:45:42 without osso-dsp-modules Mar 31 18:46:17 Stskeeps, nope Mar 31 18:46:42 some problem with it? Mar 31 18:46:55 well we need DSP tasks to output sound Mar 31 18:47:25 what 'dsp tasks' is? Mar 31 18:47:55 magic thing in closed binary? Mar 31 18:48:04 well there's a DSP in the processors Mar 31 18:48:17 and they obviously have to have software running in it, hence, DSP tasks Mar 31 18:49:53 Stskeeps, kind of firmware? Mar 31 18:49:56 yeah, sortof Mar 31 18:50:12 but yeah, magic thing in closed package applies Mar 31 18:50:15 Stskeeps, and where's it in maemo? Mar 31 18:50:30 it's a combination of osso-dsp-loader(sp) and osso-dsp-modules-rx-44 Mar 31 18:52:08 Stskeeps, closed and not present in initfs? Mar 31 18:52:50 correct Mar 31 18:53:23 there is a ARM output in kernel but i can't seem to figure out if it can be used Mar 31 18:53:30 hmm... write package that'll download it from maemo repo? :) Mar 31 18:53:49 yeah, i did that for deblet Mar 31 19:01:46 hello all. Is there anyone here that has dealt with getting a camera recognized using flex wiht maemo? Mar 31 19:05:10 evenign timelE61i Mar 31 19:05:14 sO... Mar 31 19:05:32 or rather... are there any developers for the nokia n810 that could help me out? Mar 31 19:05:37 fwiw, it takes me very close to 18months to get bugs fixed here Mar 31 19:06:30 Stskeeps: so... where's my cookie? I'm hungry. Mar 31 19:06:47 * Stskeeps passes qwerty12_N800 a chocolate cookie Mar 31 19:07:00 anyway, what can i do? Mar 31 19:07:20 timelE61i: heh, bug cycles are nasty Mar 31 19:07:22 yay! ta Mar 31 19:07:55 * timelE61i is poking people about fremantle/diablo features to get them to fix them for harmattan at the earliest Mar 31 19:09:33 timelE61i: missing a bit of context of the 18 months comment, btw Mar 31 19:10:19 sts: oh, it's consistent for lots of bugs Mar 31 19:10:48 This was a bug asking the pdf app to use adjectives instead of verbs in info banners Mar 31 19:11:05 Adding "ing" to two strings costs 18 months... Mar 31 19:11:30 well i guess it's the consequence of it being a vendor OS, - "priorities" Mar 31 19:11:42 * timelE61i shrugs Mar 31 19:11:45 with a community OS you could probably ask someone to take on the simple dirty work Mar 31 19:11:46 * timelE61i stabs jeremiah Mar 31 19:12:01 sts: or i could translate the whole thing Mar 31 19:12:05 As i've done Mar 31 19:12:11 In well under a month Mar 31 19:12:40 But no... Strings and delegation = fail Mar 31 19:12:48 It's the problem, not the solution Mar 31 19:13:12 You don't delegate string responsibility to non native speakers Mar 31 19:14:21 mm, i'm still pondering how on earth to get mer localization kickstarted and which type of infrastructure to use for it Mar 31 19:14:37 i'd recommend using my debs Mar 31 19:15:03 i'll give you updates once frem stops having secrets Mar 31 19:15:19 yeah but those versions have the comment text explained or how was it? Mar 31 19:15:34 er Mar 31 19:15:35 removed Mar 31 19:15:39 Wrt bugs, i'm filing them in mer and andre is upstreaming them Mar 31 19:15:58 Oh, i can push things w/ my comments i suppose Mar 31 19:16:13 i mean, we have a skeleton in the engineering english ones to base off Mar 31 19:16:17 I just need to make sure i replace all the nokia comments (which no one wants) Mar 31 19:16:26 You don't want skel Mar 31 19:16:41 The comments are wrong often enough to be more harm than good Mar 31 19:16:46 true Mar 31 19:22:18 * timelE61i wonders who recognizes "no more secrets" Mar 31 19:23:18 setec astronomy Mar 31 19:23:27 argh... thats too many :D Mar 31 19:23:31 not no more Mar 31 19:23:37 * jaska facepalms Mar 31 19:33:36 * Stskeeps takes a look at transifex Mar 31 19:39:33 Stskeeps, yeah, launchpad or transifex, or your own setup of damned-lies or sth like that.... Mar 31 19:47:01 * lcuk threatens to sell the children on ebay Mar 31 19:47:21 or should i give them away from with an n800? Mar 31 19:48:29 you may have to: northerners aren't high in value Mar 31 19:48:43 hey folks Mar 31 19:48:51 hi jaem Mar 31 19:51:22 I was reading wikipedia, and came across the article about jackalopes Mar 31 19:51:35 which I read, because of the Ubuntu reference Mar 31 19:51:46 the real story behind them is pretty disgusting Mar 31 19:52:37 hrm... I'm confused as to why my N810 won't connect to my friend's wifi Mar 31 19:53:02 he says he didn't change anything except the key, and setting it to AES (it was already WPA2) Mar 31 19:53:06 and it worked before Mar 31 20:01:31 reboot your n810 Mar 31 20:04:41 till-: I have Mar 31 20:04:43 several times Mar 31 20:04:56 or your friends ap Mar 31 20:05:06 other networks work fine, but it continually errors out Mar 31 20:05:09 I can ask him to Mar 31 20:05:15 why would that be the issue? Mar 31 20:05:26 sometimes my ap is invisible on some devices Mar 31 20:05:44 but it worked once? Mar 31 20:06:28 hmm Mar 31 20:06:35 well, I can see it, and everything appears normal Mar 31 20:06:40 it just errors otu Mar 31 20:06:44 thanks, though - I'll try that Mar 31 20:09:22 * Stskeeps dislikes transifex Mar 31 20:13:48 hi, is there any diablo kernel git tree? Mar 31 20:16:08 can someone tell me if they know if you can et flash 9 to see the camera on maemo? Mar 31 20:17:35 tz1 hacked flashcam to work but it only works with chinook's flash Mar 31 20:18:04 huh? Mar 31 20:18:35 I am trying to write an app in flex that will let the camera be used with flex media server. Mar 31 20:22:33 florian: is there any diablo kernel git tree? Mar 31 20:23:32 padovan: no that i'm aware of Mar 31 20:24:58 i get a kick out of the 100MB/s network speeds i'm getting with this nexenta server :) it's great Mar 31 20:26:38 what is chinook version? Mar 31 20:30:45 florian: I wanna see the difference from linus tree, I'll try to look the diff in deb package instead =) Mar 31 20:30:56 thanks Mar 31 20:31:57 florian: another question: is the work in GSoC just upgrade the drivers to the new kernel API and features? Mar 31 20:53:34 can someone tell me how I get the video from the nokia n810? Mar 31 20:56:51 you do not Mar 31 20:56:55 no video out Mar 31 20:57:12 RST38h: was that to me? Mar 31 20:57:22 yes Mar 31 20:57:30 RST38h: so I can't use flex/flash to get/stream video? Mar 31 20:57:54 this I do not know. Mar 31 20:58:24 hmm, do you have any idea how I would go about getting the camera to use in flex? Mar 31 20:58:26 if that makes snes? Mar 31 20:58:32 or any place I could go to look for htat? Mar 31 20:58:38 you probably don't. Mar 31 20:58:52 flash and camera don't relaly work together with google. Mar 31 20:58:53 haha. Mar 31 21:02:40 timelE61i: 'Sorry, an error is causing troubles to send your file.' Mar 31 21:02:51 (.. in a localization framework) Mar 31 21:03:11 anyone know the best way to get video to stream it from the n810? Mar 31 21:04:08 Sts: Could you, as a hardcore linux geek, enlighten me on something? Mar 31 21:04:16 mm, maybe Mar 31 21:04:22 and i'm more of a unix geek Mar 31 21:04:37 my first unix was a SINIX :P Mar 31 21:04:41 Sts: I have got an embedded Linux install that I want to run my own program on startup, rather than ask for login. How do I approach this? Mar 31 21:04:50 * RST38h started on CMU Mach Mar 31 21:05:16 RST38h: inittab stuff, use your program in inittab i guess, or use runlevels.. Mar 31 21:05:53 aha Mar 31 21:05:54 as in, the login comes from the getty stuff :P Mar 31 21:06:10 yea, I know that but do not know where Linux keeps it =) Mar 31 21:06:34 if they're still on sysvinit, /etc/rc?.d , or /etc/inittab Mar 31 21:07:00 * Stskeeps should go to bed Mar 31 21:07:33 inittab looks like the best place Mar 31 21:07:43 also allows me to keep getty on the serial port Mar 31 21:15:17 hmm, nobody filing new bugs for me :'( Mar 31 21:16:17 andre__, just wait 'til the beta. ;) Mar 31 21:16:21 scratchbox Mar 31 21:16:26 * lbt runs away Mar 31 21:17:11 andre__, can I fill bugs about ITT user's :P ? Mar 31 21:17:12 lol Mar 31 21:18:02 VDVsx, no, out of scope. and PEBKAC. Mar 31 21:19:03 andre__: are you a Qt person? Mar 31 21:19:59 lbt, nope Mar 31 21:20:15 there's a bug right there then :) Mar 31 21:20:26 heh Mar 31 21:20:40 I was going to point you at some stuff but no worries... Mar 31 21:20:42 andre__, PEBKAC can be fixed :) Mar 31 21:20:59 lbt, file a bug :) Mar 31 21:21:26 lol Mar 31 21:21:59 anyone know of a tutorail for maemo on how to get access to the camera from C++ or anything like that? Mar 31 21:22:00 nah, I've been doing some kinetics for Qt-hildon and I want another Qt bod to test them Mar 31 21:22:16 I basically need to get the stream, and send it over a socket. Mar 31 21:22:26 to darwin streaming server. Mar 31 21:23:29 tDs: the camera is v4l 2 iirc Mar 31 21:23:42 Samples shouldn't be too hard to find Mar 31 21:25:31 tds5016, I think you can get the camera also through gstream, google should help you Mar 31 21:28:07 VDVsx: do you know what I should google for? Mar 31 21:28:30 am I just using gstreamer directly? and how would I go about doing that with either C or python or WHATEVER would work? Mar 31 21:29:19 tds5016, found this: http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/maemo/developers/39632 Mar 31 21:29:25 tds5016, HTH Mar 31 21:31:35 thanks soo much1 Mar 31 21:34:43 GeneralAntilles, Stskeeps, the nokia camera app is OSS ? Mar 31 21:36:28 VDVsx, even if its not which functionality are you wanting to use Mar 31 21:37:47 lcuk, your framework only take photos or have video too ? Mar 31 21:38:19 photos only, but i just access gstreamer which does handle movies Mar 31 21:38:39 ie, a standard minimal gstreamer video testing app should give you the functionaluty Mar 31 21:39:32 http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/maemo/users/30307 Mar 31 21:39:48 https://garage.maemo.org/projects/camera/ Mar 31 21:40:28 tds5016, loook above Mar 31 21:41:24 lol i should learn to read scrollback more than 2 or 3 lines :P Mar 31 21:41:40 lcuk, ehheh Mar 31 21:42:15 i was distracted by lbt talking about kinetics and thought i had read the whole block Mar 31 21:44:35 lbt, lbt, the delay between pressing down and determining no swipe is in progress, what is it in ms Mar 31 21:44:37 lcuk, talking about lbt, I saw her video. Qt seems really promising on the tablets :) Mar 31 21:44:55 300ms Mar 31 21:45:06 HER! Mar 31 21:45:09 yes david (him) has made excellent progress with qt :) Mar 31 21:45:26 * lcuk tittered Mar 31 21:45:49 I think it's 'cos I have Denise on my contacts ;) Mar 31 21:46:09 lbt, sorry :( my english is very rusty Mar 31 21:46:31 VDVsx: I forgive you if you install Shopper :D Mar 31 21:46:40 * lbt needs the hits Mar 31 21:46:59 lbt, already installed Mar 31 21:46:59 long tail david :) you have started something Mar 31 21:47:36 * lbt likes VDVsx Mar 31 21:49:14 * lcuk does too :) Mar 31 21:49:47 * lbt doesn't like bluesubaru Mar 31 21:50:58 hey, my device seems to reboot if i connect a USB keyboard. i tried this on my old system (that is in the flash card), and it works ok.. so it seems to be a new bug since i upgraded, did anyone encounter this? Mar 31 21:51:59 lbt, mouse down/mouse up, ie click events. does most of QT work directly on the mousedown Mar 31 21:53:13 lcuk : https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/trunk/qt-x11/src/gui/widgets/qabstractscrollarea.cpp?revision=460&root=qt4&view=markup Mar 31 21:53:23 search for QAbstractScrollAreaPrivateScroller Mar 31 21:54:25 doesnt help with what im thinking Mar 31 21:54:36 which is related to the other controls within the scrolled area Mar 31 21:54:42 and how this tweak will effect them Mar 31 21:54:48 so I store copies of events, eat them and then replay later to the right widget if needed Mar 31 21:55:15 and its all based on time? Mar 31 21:55:31 how can plugging a usb make the nokia device reboot? is there a way to track why it does that? Mar 31 21:56:22 guysoft422, check the label on the bottom of the keyboard, if its obove or near the 100ma MAX available for usb otg, then its probably overloading the system Mar 31 21:56:27 i had it when i first played Mar 31 21:56:59 try it with a powered hub and tell me if it reboots still Mar 31 21:57:41 lcuk, the keyboard works on the OS that is on the internal flash.. my main system is on the flashcard.. its a cloned version.. i just tried to plug a keyboard here after some months not trying it. and not it hangs Mar 31 21:58:25 i dunno, perhaps it still has something to do with power consumption, what rating is the keyboard. Mar 31 22:01:47 lcuk, its not the power, its a software problem.. because it works .. and worked before.. also before it hangs the LED flashed white.. it seems to know it is rebooting Mar 31 22:02:44 lcuk, more likely its something to do with the hebrew layout i have.. thats a suspicion.. Mar 31 22:02:51 far more than power.. Mar 31 22:03:12 but the main problem is i have no way to debug this... i need something to track Mar 31 22:03:14 then you know more than me, i can only go on past experience with bt Mar 31 22:03:18 with usb ^ Mar 31 22:03:34 gUys: so Mar 31 22:03:43 Could you please humor lcuk? Mar 31 22:04:05 lcuk, you might know how to track such an error. thats what i need .. Mar 31 22:04:06 Just because one kernel allocates power a certain way doesn't mean another does Mar 31 22:04:38 but.. Have you checked dmesg? Mar 31 22:04:50 You can install sysklogd Mar 31 22:04:54 timelE61i, was there a kernel change the past 3 month Mar 31 22:05:35 ?* Mar 31 22:05:48 Kernel would only change w/ releases Mar 31 22:05:58 timelE61i, then its the same kernel Mar 31 22:05:59 Are you using the same release on both? Mar 31 22:06:07 timelE61i, yes Mar 31 22:06:30 i just removed the hebrew package and rebooted, ill test that now Mar 31 22:06:53 while its rebooting flip the kb over and read the rating ;) Mar 31 22:07:58 aNdre: ping Mar 31 22:08:03 hey folks Mar 31 22:08:14 did you see this on Engadget today? http://www.engadget.com/2009/03/31/researchers-develop-braille-for-vibrating-touchscreen/ Mar 31 22:08:17 timelE61i, pong Mar 31 22:08:55 it says they used an N770 for it Mar 31 22:08:56 lcuk, its a flexi Mar 31 22:09:05 jaem, wow, thats inspired! Mar 31 22:09:30 * lcuk likes finding new ways to communicate Mar 31 22:09:31 it doesn't sound like they had to modify the hardware, from what I've read so far Mar 31 22:09:36 lcuk: me too Mar 31 22:09:39 it's brilliant Mar 31 22:10:16 has anyone stripped the 770, are the speakers piezo? Mar 31 22:11:10 jaem, I also saw a video (from nokia) where the guys use some sort of responsive touchscreen on a ITT, dunno if is the same research Mar 31 22:11:23 fair enough guysoft422, not an answer but since its designed for mobile ill let you off :P Mar 31 22:11:39 lcuk: it sounds like the screen itself has piezo properties Mar 31 22:12:00 i want my tablet to shout and yelp in pain if its pressed too hard Mar 31 22:12:05 ok, its not the hebrew.. Mar 31 22:12:45 the other suspects that i installed could be the connection manager, and the debian easy chroot Mar 31 22:12:50 jaem, i bet they modded it Mar 31 22:13:01 * timelE61i pokes andre.. Msg me Mar 31 22:13:41 on the newscientist page they say its in the screen itself: "Nokia 770 Internet Tablet, which has a piezoelectric material built into the touch screen that vibrates when an electric signal is applied to it." Mar 31 22:13:43 lcuk: that's what I thought, but here's a quote from the NewScientist article: "To display these dots on a touch-screen device, Jussi Rantala of the University of Tampere in Finland and colleagues used a Nokia 770 Internet Tablet, which has a piezoelectric material built into the touch screen that vibrates when an electric signal is applied to it." Mar 31 22:13:51 lol Mar 31 22:14:01 oh, I see what you mean - I read it differently than you Mar 31 22:14:07 I'm trying to find the original paper Mar 31 22:14:12 technically, thats possibly true and would work in inverse, but thats not how the touchscreen is made Mar 31 22:14:48 A prototype device with a piezoelectric actuator embedded under the touchscreen was used to create tactile feedback. Mar 31 22:14:55 ^^^ Mar 31 22:14:57 ah, okay Mar 31 22:14:59 link? Mar 31 22:14:59 haptics :) Mar 31 22:15:02 right Mar 31 22:15:07 still, a neat idea Mar 31 22:15:11 in the header for the ieee thing http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/search/wrapper.jsp?arnumber=4760140 Mar 31 22:15:38 I suppose you could program it so you could just tap some text on the screen with your finger, and have it "read" it to you Mar 31 22:15:41 thanks Mar 31 22:15:44 wE've had demos of those Mar 31 22:15:52 Both w/ 770s and n800s Mar 31 22:15:55 * timelE61i shrugs Mar 31 22:15:55 timelE61i: oh, really? That particular demo? Mar 31 22:16:00 dunno Mar 31 22:16:10 * timelE61i is using a phone to chat Mar 31 22:16:18 Various piezo-s Mar 31 22:16:20 it's a neat idea Mar 31 22:16:25 it would help with knowing where you are if done properly Mar 31 22:16:37 what are you thinking of? Mar 31 22:16:40 It would fail on average Mar 31 22:16:52 Wanna use youtube in microb? Mar 31 22:16:54 Have fun Mar 31 22:17:15 ? Mar 31 22:17:19 usb mouse seems to have stoped working too Mar 31 22:17:21 By the time you're using braille, you need custom apps Mar 31 22:17:26 at least it does not hang Mar 31 22:17:39 timelE61i, im thinking for texting without looking ;) Mar 31 22:17:44 Sure we could --enable-accessible Mar 31 22:17:59 Lcuk: my e61i can do that Mar 31 22:17:59 boundaries of buttons having a small wall which when stroked over give feedback Mar 31 22:18:05 yeah lol Mar 31 22:18:09 usb key works. Mar 31 22:18:16 lcuk: I've heard of a in-car GPS unit that did that Mar 31 22:18:19 And it can speak the replies to me Mar 31 22:18:20 not sure if it was production or not Mar 31 22:18:29 jaem, http://www.slashgear.com/nokia-demonstrate-haptikos-haptic-touchscreen-prototypes-088405/ http://www.slashgear.com/nokia-promo-video-shows-haptic-touchscreen-concept-for-2008-188043/ and http://www.redferret.net/?p=9533 Mar 31 22:18:38 Note that i'm not claiming n810 touch typing Mar 31 22:18:52 and there a video also, can't found it Mar 31 22:18:54 VDVsx: thanks - I'll take a look Mar 31 22:19:18 The resistive demos we had and there were a couple... Mar 31 22:19:19 ta vdv Mar 31 22:19:27 jaem, one of the links have a video in a nokia event, but I saw other video with the ITT Mar 31 22:19:29 Were interesting but nowhere near marketable Mar 31 22:20:07 If someone got braille truly working, that's probably better than what i've felt Mar 31 22:20:19 But i wouldn't bother Mar 31 22:20:20 ...the usual story - half the fun things arent' marketable :P Mar 31 22:20:44 I'd argue that users are better served by a companion device Mar 31 22:20:54 how is braille traditionally done on computers? I've never looked into it Mar 31 22:21:01 timelE61i, but the responsive thing will be marketable soon, IMO Mar 31 22:21:02 with hardware Mar 31 22:21:08 There's typically a row Mar 31 22:21:18 Which you read repeatedly Mar 31 22:21:23 "read"=scan Mar 31 22:22:23 timelE61i: linear-actuated pins, then? Mar 31 22:22:46 yEs Mar 31 22:23:18 hmm... interesting Mar 31 22:24:31 think about your average keyboard Mar 31 22:24:41 But w/ one more row past the fkeys Mar 31 22:24:55 Perhaps there are no fs (i can't remember) Mar 31 22:25:01 That row is output Mar 31 22:25:02 yeah, I've seen pictures - just nothing detailed Mar 31 22:25:34 anyway... Braille in 3space is hard Mar 31 22:25:41 Err 2space Mar 31 22:26:04 lol Mar 31 22:26:49 you can try mapping colors to heights if you have decent resolution and algs Mar 31 22:27:06 But you basically need e.g. A high contrast map Mar 31 22:27:24 So mostly it's an outline and very few labels Mar 31 22:27:54 Google maps today afaik doesn't really have a format that'd suit this problem Mar 31 22:28:19 So a browser for google maps couldn't do much for a blind user Mar 31 22:29:12 If you used tracing algs and then did stuff... Perhaps you could use some sort of shape deforming to give feedback Mar 31 22:29:20 But ... That's hard :) Mar 31 22:30:50 timelE61i: how about topo data from maps on a much higher-resolution pin grid :D Mar 31 22:31:01 probably not at all practical, but definitely cool Mar 31 22:31:05 I could see issues with that Mar 31 22:32:11 Some things are doable Mar 31 22:32:27 But again, this isn't something you'd put into standard hardware Mar 31 22:32:33 It'd be a second unit Mar 31 22:32:40 Like the current keyboard Mar 31 22:34:30 the costs i'm sure would suck, but ... Mar 31 22:35:32 indeed Mar 31 22:35:41 well, I should go write up my lab report Mar 31 22:35:42 cheers Mar 31 22:37:54 aCtually, one thing... Mar 31 22:38:00 You don't need high res Mar 31 22:38:10 You need panning and zoom Mar 31 22:39:12 As long as the thing is say 3"square and you can zoom in/out and pan easily, the user could pan the real screen Mar 31 22:39:48 technically your fingers are high res, but practically, it'd be easier to cut a corner there Mar 31 22:41:44 * timelE61i listens and watches as a drunk hicks and staggers around Mar 31 22:44:09 * VDVsx thought fini's only get drunk in the weekend's :P Mar 31 22:44:21 sun's gone down Mar 31 22:44:32 they don't know what day it is this month Mar 31 22:45:49 typically su/mo/tu aren't big nights, but... Bars were open Mar 31 23:01:57 nigt all Mar 31 23:21:55 there needs to be a firefox plugin that shows which tabs are hogging resources Mar 31 23:22:22 tired of having too many tabs and not knowing which is causing firefox to run at 100% cpu Mar 31 23:22:37 Hehe Mar 31 23:22:55 resource management is tough Mar 31 23:33:16 ahha! found it.. stupid discovery.com running a scrolling text banner, in flash. Mar 31 23:33:25 yeah, that was worth it. Mar 31 23:37:54 usually it is a page with flash eating the cpu Apr 01 00:10:54 hello guys! is there a way to check out just canola player? Apr 01 00:14:51 ok, found it... Apr 01 02:42:14 good night Apr 01 02:55:10 http://www.treehugger.com/files/2009/03/greenpeaces-latest-green-gadget-guide-knocks-down-hp-lenovo-dell.php Apr 01 02:55:12 yay nokia Apr 01 02:57:44 pfft, "green" wackos Apr 01 02:58:10 pfft, wackos **** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Apr 01 02:59:57 2009