**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Apr 06 02:59:58 2009
Apr 06 05:43:35 <RST38h> moo all
Apr 06 06:46:38 <L0cutus> re
Apr 06 06:57:27 <qgil> Stskeeps: ping
Apr 06 06:58:54 <qgil> Stskeeps: We have some budget to sponsor key participants in the Danish Weekend. You are invited, and we will give priority to the contributors of the Mep project that you would like to work with in Copenhagen.
Apr 06 06:59:24 <qgil> All you will be able to request sponsorship as soon as X-Fade has fixed an annoying bug in the same registration for we used for the Maemo Summit.
Apr 06 07:00:10 <qgil> fyi the same priority is given to the Fremantle Stars projects
Apr 06 07:00:34 <qgil> ... and basically also to the cool apps available in Fremantle extras-devel
Apr 06 07:04:27 <StsN801> qgil, sounds good:) i'm self-financing this time around and crashing at a friend of mine - i'd like to make room for other mer developers in the budget
Apr 06 07:13:14 <thux> StsN801: new mer installer came yesterday, does it install any diffrent mer than old one?
Apr 06 07:13:34 <StsN801> thux, yes, 0.11
Apr 06 07:13:50 <StsN801> and fixes some bugs
Apr 06 07:14:21 <thux> ok
Apr 06 07:15:02 <thux> StsN801: btw does that penguinbait bootloader bother mer installing?
Apr 06 07:16:36 <StsN801> yeah, overwrite it with mer one and read the installation instructions. there's a part about clone to sd
Apr 06 07:16:48 <thux> ok
Apr 06 07:31:41 <RST38h> EHLO
Apr 06 07:32:00 <qwerty12> HELO
Apr 06 07:33:01 <RST38h> qwerty: Anyway to move input field from undeneath guessed words in Anagramarama? =)
Apr 06 07:33:58 <qwerty12> It was the best way I could get it to fit without making the letters any smaller. But I notice that the background image is still 800x600, I'll change that later and see what happns
Apr 06 07:34:06 <qwerty12> s/happns/happens/
Apr 06 07:34:07 <infobot> qwerty12 meant: It was the best way I could get it to fit without making the letters any smaller. But I notice that the background image is still 800x600, I'll change that later and see what happens
Apr 06 07:35:17 <qwerty12> But, that said, while not looking good, it doesn't deter from the playability of the game.
Apr 06 07:35:48 <RST38h> qwerty: I guess at this point it seems better to make letters smaller =(
Apr 06 07:36:23 <RST38h> Yea, it works, just looks a bit untidy
Apr 06 07:47:35 <aquatix> good moaning
Apr 06 07:47:59 <Jaffa> Good moaning
Apr 06 07:48:01 <Jaffa> Oh, damn - snap
Apr 06 07:48:05 <qgil> http://wiki.maemo.org/Mozilla_Maemo_Danish_Weekend#Who_is_coming
Apr 06 07:48:41 <aquatix> Jaffa: hm?
Apr 06 07:49:23 * Jaffa suspects your "moaning" subliminally influenced me
Apr 06 07:49:29 <aquatix> :)
Apr 06 07:49:39 <aquatix> it's monday moaning again
Apr 06 07:52:46 <qgil> and for those of you in Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=68342912828
Apr 06 07:53:15 <suihkulokki> spambook
Apr 06 07:54:29 <qgil> huomenta suihkulokki
Apr 06 07:55:06 <suihkulokki> huomenta qgil :)
Apr 06 08:00:23 <b0unc3> good morning
Apr 06 08:09:19 <wazd> hello world
Apr 06 08:11:03 <world> wazd: hi
Apr 06 08:11:27 <wazd> jezuschrist)))
Apr 06 08:14:38 <Stskeeps> morning
Apr 06 08:14:51 <X-Fade> Morning
Apr 06 08:21:09 <RST38h> heya wazd
Apr 06 08:21:12 <RST38h> moo Sts
Apr 06 08:21:32 <wazd> RST38h: Stskeeps: hello hello :)
Apr 06 08:21:40 <wazd> X-Fade: hello
Apr 06 08:32:27 <Macer> hm
Apr 06 08:33:15 <vsr> does Maemo got a video player?
Apr 06 08:33:33 <X-Fade> wazd: hi
Apr 06 08:33:41 <Stskeeps> vsr: plenty
Apr 06 08:33:55 <vsr> like
Apr 06 08:34:03 <x29a> mplayer
Apr 06 08:34:07 <x29a> "videplayer"
Apr 06 08:34:16 <Jaffa> gstreamer-based Helix-based player shipped as standard, mplayer available separaterly
Apr 06 08:34:22 <x29a> canola
Apr 06 08:34:23 <vsr> looking for a gui player
Apr 06 08:34:35 <vsr> maemo uses gpe right?
Apr 06 08:34:46 <Stskeeps> nop
Apr 06 08:34:49 <Stskeeps> maemo uses maemo :P
Apr 06 08:35:10 <Stskeeps> x29a: you were the one that wrote Documentation/Installation weren't you?
Apr 06 08:35:17 <Jaffa> vsr: There's one shipped, alternatively there are other front ends such as Canola, UKMP, Kagu, MediaBox
Apr 06 08:35:45 <Jaffa> vsr: the GPE PIM suite has been ported to Maemo, but it's its own Debian-based OS using the open source Hildon libraries (based on Gtk+)
Apr 06 08:36:18 <vsr> what is the backend for these front ends?
Apr 06 08:36:22 <vsr> mplayer?
Apr 06 08:36:42 <Stskeeps> either gstreamer or mplayer
Apr 06 08:36:53 <qwerty12> mplayer, but canola and mediabox have the option to use the default media player backend: osso-media-server
Apr 06 08:37:14 <qwerty12> Oh, yeah, mediabox also has the option of using gstreamer directly (beta iirc)
Apr 06 08:37:47 <vsr> which one is the best,
Apr 06 08:37:50 <vsr> ;-)
Apr 06 08:37:54 <Stskeeps> depends on taste
Apr 06 08:38:17 <vsr> i have mplayer as a backend
Apr 06 08:38:26 <vsr> something which is light and fast
Apr 06 08:38:36 <qwerty12> mplayer for 98% of things, but the default media player backend can play some wmv's better
Apr 06 08:38:55 <vsr> mplayer does not have a front end. i dont have a console
Apr 06 08:39:28 <vsr> do you know some good front ends which use mplayer as the backend
Apr 06 08:39:37 <qwerty12> You just got a list.
Apr 06 08:41:26 <vsr> yeah thanks, but none of this is supported in open embedded
Apr 06 08:51:18 <Macer> well have to love that android txt to speech lib
Apr 06 08:51:25 <Macer> too bad i had to buy a damn app for jabber support
Apr 06 08:51:33 <Macer> so i can use my jabberd
Apr 06 08:52:50 <lcuk> qwerty12 mafw is meant to allow mplayer or gstreamer as a backend
Apr 06 08:53:04 <qwerty12> I'm talking about now though
Apr 06 08:53:21 <lcuk> then it doesnt :P
Apr 06 08:53:50 * lcuk kicks access for not deleting 881000 records in a timely fashion
Apr 06 08:55:18 <Jaffa> awedsxz
Apr 06 08:55:36 <Jaffa> Doh
Apr 06 08:55:58 <qwerty12> That the new language you picked up after a trip in the Tardis? :)
Apr 06 08:56:12 <Jaffa> I can speak 6 billion languages now
Apr 06 08:56:33 <RST38h> As long as the word you speak is "Urgh"? =)
Apr 06 08:59:51 <aquatix> RST38h: you don't know how hard it is to pronounce that word in New New New New New New York's dialect
Apr 06 09:05:58 <MakeGho> This stupid n810 web browser always pops up the new window I open with "open new window". Even if I click it to background, it soon pops up again a few times. Anyone got a cure for this annoying behaviour?
Apr 06 09:06:00 <RST38h> aquatix: that is probably they use smells to communicate there
Apr 06 09:06:31 <RST38h> MakeGho: Complain to generalAntilles or GAN800 - he will commiserate with you
Apr 06 09:06:48 <RST38h> (and point to a bug report that will probably never be resolved by Nokia now)
Apr 06 09:09:43 <MakeGho> :/
Apr 06 09:22:49 <thux> Stskeeps: does mer virtual-keyboard has locale layouts?
Apr 06 09:25:59 <thux> tried also moblin-matchbox which does have but it got grey background where black keys are hard to see
Apr 06 09:26:24 <Stskeeps> thux: not until someone makes it
Apr 06 09:26:36 <thux> ok
Apr 06 09:26:54 <Stskeeps> it shouldn't be that difficult though
Apr 06 09:27:32 <Stskeeps> the problem is the input method goodies is closed source, but framework is open
Apr 06 09:27:42 <thux> wonder could i change that moblin-matchbox keyboard colors?
Apr 06 09:27:48 <Stskeeps> possible
Apr 06 09:28:14 <thux> ok try that
Apr 06 09:28:39 <thux> i try that
Apr 06 09:30:10 <Stskeeps> someone should try to take moblin-matchbox and turn it into a GTK input method or something..
Apr 06 09:30:13 <Stskeeps> or HIM
Apr 06 09:31:47 <wazd_n800> Stskeeps, are there any candidates for mer's default mediaplayer?)
Apr 06 09:32:01 <Stskeeps> wazd_n800: canola2? dunno
Apr 06 09:32:10 <Stskeeps> i mean, it's OSS now
Apr 06 09:33:10 <Stskeeps> but i guess a lightweight one would be good too
Apr 06 09:34:12 <thux> i'm on mer now and cannot do ctrl +ad any otherway detach screen?
Apr 06 09:34:55 <Stskeeps> thux: sorry, ctrl doesn't work in osso-xterm :( please report on http://bugs.maemo.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=Mer
Apr 06 09:35:18 <thux> ok
Apr 06 09:50:37 <lcuk> sappy feel good story for monday: http://uk.news.yahoo.com/18/20090406/tod-dog-overboard-found-four-months-late-37b0eca.html
Apr 06 09:58:41 <RST38h> lcuk: "Sophie Tucker, assumed dead, survives alone on an ocean island! News at 11!"
Apr 06 09:59:07 <florian> good morning
Apr 06 09:59:28 <RST38h> lcuk: "...was living off feral goats."
Apr 06 10:00:03 <wazd_n800> does anybody knows where pidgin installs on the tablet?
Apr 06 10:00:29 <qwerty12> dpkg -L pidgin?
Apr 06 10:00:36 <RST38h> lcuk: "...she'd started eating baby feral goats."
Apr 06 10:00:50 <RST38h> This story ends too soon, with two few details
Apr 06 10:01:16 <RST38h> s/two/too
Apr 06 10:01:51 <RST38h> wazd: /usr/share/pidgin if it made you install that humongous data package (it is not needed in general)
Apr 06 10:03:24 <wazd_n800> RST38h, well, i've tried to fix icq problem as described on russian nit forum and I think I've epic-failed)
Apr 06 10:04:07 <RST38h> wazd: URL?
Apr 06 10:04:36 <wazd_n800> now the device is loaded with crap and pidgin doesn't work at all)
Apr 06 10:05:14 <RST38h> The best thing would be to contact nix and ask him to update the package
Apr 06 10:05:54 <wazd_n800> RST38h, http://n8xx.com/pda/viewtopic.php?id=2751
Apr 06 10:07:09 <wazd_n800> can I remove pidgin stuff somehow?)
Apr 06 10:15:37 * Myrtti gives X-Fade a cookie
Apr 06 10:35:55 <RST38h> wazd: rm -rf /usr/share/pidgin does it =)
Apr 06 10:37:23 <RST38h> wazd: To chto tam eti orly kompilyat na n8xx ya by opasalsya vot tak na ura stavit' - bo nikto ne znaet kakie u nix dependencies
Apr 06 10:38:03 <RST38h> wazd: No libpurple podmenit' (comment #22) mozhno poprobovat'
Apr 06 10:50:18 <lizardo> X-Fade: hi
Apr 06 10:50:41 <X-Fade> lizardo: Hi
Apr 06 10:52:11 <lizardo> I'm trying to upload a new version of "maemo-python-env" (whose latest version was uploaded  by jhs_s) to maemo extras, but it the builder simply does not start it (even when the queue is empty), then after a few hours, it fails
Apr 06 10:52:17 <lizardo> X-Fade: ^ any ideas?
Apr 06 10:52:35 <lizardo> X-Fade: the package is just a metapackage, so it should not take that long to build
Apr 06 10:53:12 <X-Fade> lizardo: did you upload all needed files?
Apr 06 10:53:37 <lizardo> X-Fade: the strange thing is that I could upload maemo-python-device-env (very similar to it) without problems
Apr 06 10:53:57 <lizardo> X-Fade: I think so, but I will check that
Apr 06 10:55:28 <lizardo> X-Fade: does the builder "holds" the package from building if it could not satisfy its dependencies?
Apr 06 10:55:30 <X-Fade> lizardo: It was rejected because the orig.tar.gz was missing?
Apr 06 10:55:48 <lizardo> X-Fade: yeah, but I'm pretty sure it was not :) (tried twice)
Apr 06 10:55:58 <svu__> alterego, here?
Apr 06 10:56:07 <X-Fade> lizardo: Is it really only 133 bytes?
Apr 06 10:56:15 <X-Fade> lizardo:  94330d0e4c89030f87ce8f6289384aba 133 maemo-python-env_1.1.0.orig.tar.gz
Apr 06 10:57:53 <lizardo> X-Fade: yes:
Apr 06 10:57:54 <lizardo> $ md5sum ../maemo-python-env_1.1.0.orig.tar.gz; du -sb ../maemo-python-env_1.1.0.orig.tar.gz
Apr 06 10:57:54 <lizardo> 94330d0e4c89030f87ce8f6289384aba  ../maemo-python-env_1.1.0.orig.tar.gz
Apr 06 10:57:54 <lizardo> 133     ../maemo-python-env_1.1.0.orig.tar.gz
Apr 06 10:58:49 <lizardo> X-Fade: hmmm
Apr 06 10:58:59 <lizardo> but now looking at it, it looks strange :/
Apr 06 10:59:29 <lizardo> I mean, the source package was created without errors, but in fact the .tar.gz tarball looks empty
Apr 06 10:59:59 <lizardo> X-Fade: I will verify why this happened, thanks for your help!
Apr 06 11:00:10 <X-Fade> lizardo: Let me know what you find ;)
Apr 06 11:01:33 <Macer> word
Apr 06 11:01:48 <Macer> Stskeeps: going to the po to ship it today
Apr 06 11:01:57 <Stskeeps> alright :)
Apr 06 11:02:41 <Macer> make sure you do good things with it ;)
Apr 06 11:02:46 <Stskeeps> of course i will
Apr 06 11:03:21 <Macer> and now i have an excuse to get an n810
Apr 06 11:03:59 <Macer> haha
Apr 06 11:06:50 <Macer> damn n810 goes for $350 still?
Apr 06 11:07:42 <Macer> kind of high isnt it?
Apr 06 11:08:10 <mgedmin> well, then n900 doesn't exist yet
Apr 06 11:08:15 <mgedmin> I imagine the price will drop then
Apr 06 11:10:00 <svu__> can anyone pls ping alterego, to check if he is just ignoring me?
Apr 06 11:10:18 <Macer> amazon has n810s for 270 new
Apr 06 11:11:25 <tank-man> didn't buy.com have n810s on sale a while back for $200
Apr 06 11:12:14 <lardman> morning all
Apr 06 11:12:33 <Macer> dont know
Apr 06 11:12:48 <qwerty12> afternoon lardman ;)
Apr 06 11:13:18 <Stskeeps> morning lardman
Apr 06 11:13:25 <lardman> qwerty12: hey, I'm going with ugt
Apr 06 11:13:32 <lardman> hi Stskeeps
Apr 06 11:13:34 <qwerty12> lol
Apr 06 11:16:47 <suihkulokki> any ssl/certificate gurus awake?
Apr 06 11:18:01 <suihkulokki> or if anyone is able to curl/wget https://git.maemo.org/ without ssl error
Apr 06 11:19:27 <Stskeeps> works for me in firefox 3
Apr 06 11:20:26 <suihkulokki> I know
Apr 06 11:20:40 <Stskeeps> oh, curl
Apr 06 11:22:21 <pyhimys> curl -k https://git.maemo.org/
Apr 06 11:24:00 <qgil> hi X-Fade, maybe that bug in the registration for has something to do with the "Notice" appearing at http://maemo.org/news/events/maemo_summit-001/ ¿?
Apr 06 11:24:35 <suihkulokki> pyhimys: that's a a workaround. I'm intersted in getting it fixed.
Apr 06 11:26:16 <Stskeeps> suihkulokki: if you're still doing anything scratchbox related, you -really- want to take a look at OBS's qemu-arm patches. i just set up a binfmt_misc environment with their qemu-arm and user-level emulates without a single hiss
Apr 06 11:27:27 <suihkulokki> Stskeeps: where are their qemu patches?
Apr 06 11:27:50 <Stskeeps> make a OBS account, and at https://build.opensuse.org/package/show?package=qemu-svn&project=openSUSE%3ATools%3ADevel , grab Debian_Etch version , and dpkg-buildpackage
Apr 06 11:28:07 <Stskeeps> generates a static /usr/bin/qemu-arm
Apr 06 11:28:20 * lcuk waves \o
Apr 06 11:28:33 <Stskeeps> patches are in debian/patches
Apr 06 11:28:41 <suihkulokki> pfft
Apr 06 11:28:52 <Stskeeps> yeah, it's lame to have to make an account
Apr 06 11:29:13 <suihkulokki> can't you get them online somewhere?
Apr 06 11:29:15 <Stskeeps> sec
Apr 06 11:30:25 <lizardo> X-Fade: I found the problem, it was a the previous version of the package in http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/fremantle/free/source/m/maemo-python-env/ (look at its size), it should not have a .orig.tar.gz anyway (it is a native package), so I just removed it and made a .diff.gz + .tar.gz upload... let's see if it works
Apr 06 11:31:20 <Stskeeps> suihkulokki: http://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/obs-qemu/
Apr 06 11:31:35 <lcuk> lol stskeeps thats cheating :P
Apr 06 11:34:54 * Stskeeps unleashes qt4 build on it
Apr 06 11:38:32 <wazd_n800> jezus christ, why copy/paste sould be so compplicated(
Apr 06 11:39:02 <RST38h> To force you into creating original content? =)
Apr 06 11:39:54 <wazd_n800> why not just open archive, copy lib, open folder and paste it
Apr 06 11:40:42 <wazd_n800> why should I type all that alchemy stuff into the console(
Apr 06 11:43:17 <RST38h> That is the power of Linux!
Apr 06 11:43:26 <wazd_n800> pidgin still doeesn't work, even reinstalled one and I have 100 mb of junk somewhere on the device(
Apr 06 11:43:43 <RST38h> All this typing replaces sexual life to some people, you know...
Apr 06 11:44:06 <RST38h> Ok, let us start with making console easy. Do you have SSH installed on the tablet already?
Apr 06 11:45:34 <wazd_n800> RST38h, my desktop is down right now so I have to wait untill it will fix itself)
Apr 06 11:47:24 <RST38h> Oh
Apr 06 11:47:32 <Stskeeps> 'lo jeremiah_
Apr 06 11:47:44 <RST38h> wazd: Anyways, connecting via ssh from the desktop makes console stuff much easier
Apr 06 11:47:54 <suihkulokki> Stskeeps: thanks.
Apr 06 11:47:57 <RST38h> wazd: As to the 100MB of trash, you unpacked that tar.gz, didn't you?
Apr 06 11:48:05 <Stskeeps> suihkulokki: np - i hope it comes to good use
Apr 06 11:48:45 <jeremiah_> Hello keeps!
Apr 06 11:48:57 <jeremiah_> Is that a bot you have that says 'lo?
Apr 06 11:49:08 <jeremiah_> Or do you always just say hello? :-)
Apr 06 11:49:09 <RST38h> ehlo jeremiah
Apr 06 11:49:13 <Stskeeps> jeremiah_: nop, i'm just slightly weird
Apr 06 11:49:13 <Stskeeps> :P
Apr 06 11:49:16 <jeremiah_> helo RST38h!
Apr 06 11:49:31 <jeremiah_> Stskeeps: Its not weird, is courteous. :)
Apr 06 11:49:37 <wazd_n800> RST38h, yep
Apr 06 11:49:56 <RST38h> wazd: I am downloading it at the moment, once I do, will tell you what to type to wipe this stuff clean
Apr 06 11:49:59 <jeremiah_> BRB, making some tea.
Apr 06 11:50:23 <wazd_n800> RST38h, thanks a lot!
Apr 06 11:50:55 <RST38h> wazd: you will also have to go to app manager and uninstall pidgin after you delete crap
Apr 06 11:51:08 <RST38h> wazd: this will clean up whatever installation you had before
Apr 06 11:52:57 <wazd_n800> ok, looks like my desktop is totally fraked up
Apr 06 11:53:17 <Stskeeps> time to buy a usb hub and replace it with your n800 ;)
Apr 06 11:53:32 <RST38h> Sts: Not until Nokia fixes lagging kbd input
Apr 06 11:53:43 <Stskeeps> RST38h: have we discovered what it is yet?
Apr 06 11:53:53 <Stskeeps> i know HIM acts up, but rest?
Apr 06 11:53:57 <RST38h> Sts: We have so far discovered that Nokia isn't going to fix it
Apr 06 11:54:05 <wazd_n800> Stskeeps, not untill PS on ARM)
Apr 06 11:54:26 <Stskeeps> RST38h: no excuse for not trying ourselves
Apr 06 11:54:27 <Stskeeps> :P
Apr 06 11:55:27 <suihkulokki> Stskeeps: well there was only one patch not seen before
Apr 06 11:55:46 <RST38h> Oh fucking shit... Never trust n8xx
Apr 06 11:56:02 <mgedmin> never trust nokia to build an alarm clock
Apr 06 11:56:21 <mgedmin> I overslept this morning's meeting because the nokia phone didn't ring
Apr 06 11:56:23 <Stskeeps> suihkulokki: k - well, it seems to run just fine so far
Apr 06 11:56:36 <RST38h> Sts: Are we supposed to have /usr/include on tablets?
Apr 06 11:56:37 <mgedmin> and the n810's alarm pays very close attention to "system sounds: off" or something daft like that
Apr 06 11:57:15 <RST38h> wazd; Ready?
Apr 06 11:57:27 <wazd_n800> RST38h, yep
Apr 06 11:58:00 <Stskeeps> suihkulokki: admittedly i don't know if he did it cleanly (through debian/patches) or in-code
Apr 06 11:59:20 <wazd_n800> btw, does anybody know any reliable network storage disks?
Apr 06 11:59:38 <wazd_n800> I mean "very" reliable)
Apr 06 11:59:47 <jeremiah_> Oh, in that case, no.
Apr 06 12:00:02 <jeremiah_> "very reliable" is hard to find in computing.
Apr 06 12:00:51 <wazd_n800> I need something to store important files there
Apr 06 12:00:58 <RST38h> wazd: rm -rf /usr/share/sounds/purple /usr/share/purple /usr/share/pixmaps/pidgin /usr/share/applications/pidgin.desktop /usr/lib/purple-2 /usr/lib/pidgin /usr/lib/gnt /usr/lib/finch /usr/lib/libgnt* /usr/lib/libpurple* /usr/include /usr/bin/finch /usr/bin/purple-* /usr/bin/pidgin /etc/gconf/schemas/purple.schemas
Apr 06 12:01:10 <RST38h> wazd: this should all be done with root privileges
Apr 06 12:01:27 <Stskeeps> wazd_n800: i would use a local raid and back up online or something
Apr 06 12:01:28 <RST38h> jeremiah: just have to know where to look
Apr 06 12:02:31 <jeremiah_> RST38h: Where do you suggest?
Apr 06 12:02:32 <lizardo> X-Fade: ok, I think the problem is something else... because the package seems to be waiting forever to be selected for building (just as before), even with the builders apparently idle (the package was uploaded at 11:42 AM UTC
Apr 06 12:02:37 <RST38h> jeremiah/Sts/mgedmin: Please, help us a little bit here: does the tablet have /usr/lib/pkgconfig /usr/share/alocal /usr/share/man directories?
Apr 06 12:02:56 <RST38h> jeremiah: most aerospace stuff is dumb but extremely reliable
Apr 06 12:02:59 <jeremiah_> RST38h: I wil check.
Apr 06 12:03:01 <qwerty12_N800> hey jeremiah_
Apr 06 12:03:07 <jeremiah_> RST38h: Ah, true I suppose.
Apr 06 12:03:11 <RST38h> jeremiah: FreeBSD based servers are also somewhat dumb but stable like a rock
Apr 06 12:03:13 <jeremiah_> Hey qwerty12_N800!
Apr 06 12:03:25 <jeremiah_> RST38h: But they have to rely on the underlying hardware.
Apr 06 12:03:30 <RST38h> jeremiahL It is just the consumer stuff that is unreliable
Apr 06 12:03:34 <jeremiah_> So no more reliable than anything else.
Apr 06 12:03:50 <RST38h> jeremiah; Oh you can build yourself reliable hardware, all it takes is 1-2 hours of googling
Apr 06 12:04:08 <jeremiah_> If you want reliable, you need to double it up, whatever it is.
Apr 06 12:04:32 <RST38h> then the element responsible for fail over mechanism breaks
Apr 06 12:05:34 <jeremiah_> nah, use a distributed replicated block device and you have instant clustering.
Apr 06 12:05:51 <lcuk> multiple systems running multiple platofrms
Apr 06 12:06:09 <lcuk> hardcore nasa style redundency
Apr 06 12:06:35 <jeremiah_> trivial. drbd and kvm
Apr 06 12:06:50 <jeremiah_> :P
Apr 06 12:06:53 <lcuk> heh, im thinking arm and x86 ;)
Apr 06 12:07:14 <jeremiah_> I'm just spouting gibberish so, ignore me. :)
Apr 06 12:08:53 <mgedmin> RST38h: n810 with latest os2008: no /usr/share/alocal; the other two exist
Apr 06 12:09:21 <mgedmin> RST38h: but there is /usr/share/aclocal
Apr 06 12:09:24 <liri> after retrieving some canola updates, canola didn't start which I solved by copying a plugins file from the user's directory to /usr/share... now canola2 starts but it hangs when playing a file. this is n810
Apr 06 12:09:26 <liri> any ideas?
Apr 06 12:10:00 <RST38h> mgedmin: ok o all three exist?
Apr 06 12:10:28 <jeremiah_> I get no /usr/share/alocal on my tablet
Apr 06 12:10:36 <jeremiah_> n810 with latest OS
Apr 06 12:10:46 <RST38h> Ok, so they are saved from destruction
Apr 06 12:10:50 <RST38h> thanks
Apr 06 12:10:54 <RST38h> wazd: Still here?
Apr 06 12:12:43 <RST38h> wazd: rm -rf /usr/share/man/man1/finch.1 /usr/share/man/man1/pidgin.1 /usr/share/aclocal/purple.m4 /usr/lib/pkgconfig/finch.pc /usr/lib/pkgconfig/gnt.pc /usr/lib/pkgconfig/pidgin.pc /usr/lib/pkgconfig/purple.pc
Apr 06 12:13:49 <RST38h> wazd: This will clean your tablet up, although pidgin messages will still stay /usr/share/locale - they are too numeroud
Apr 06 12:13:51 <RST38h> s
Apr 06 12:17:03 <RST38h> To clean locale:  find /usr/share/locale -name pidgin.mo -print | xargs -n 1 rm -f
Apr 06 12:23:31 <RST38h> You won't believe it is not april 1st: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/04/06/symbian_strategy_boutique/
Apr 06 12:24:16 <Stskeeps> RST38h: ..
Apr 06 12:25:25 <jeremiah_> I kinda like the new symbian logo. :)
Apr 06 12:26:54 <qwerty12> *That's* a logo?
Apr 06 12:27:07 <Stskeeps> Art: anyone can do it.
Apr 06 12:28:55 <RST38h> Was that MS Paint or did they use more advanced tools?
Apr 06 12:29:59 <aquatix> i think they used a crayon
Apr 06 12:30:04 <Stskeeps> they used the dead remains of a possum covered in paint
Apr 06 12:32:52 <RST38h> They used stylus from a discarded UIQ phone.
Apr 06 12:34:08 <Stskeeps> RST38h: would a developer environment where you simply chroot into the target, full user level emulation be good?
Apr 06 12:34:14 <Stskeeps> without tricks
Apr 06 12:34:20 <Stskeeps> (for cross-compilation)
Apr 06 12:55:48 <RST38h> Sts: I have no idea, isn't it what SB2 does?
Apr 06 12:56:15 * RST38h does not really need to chroot to any special environments, a crosscompiling toolchain is ok with him
Apr 06 12:56:35 <Stskeeps> RST38h: yeah, - but it adds in a lot of stuff as well. this solution is as simple as installing qemu and adding a binfmt, and just chrooting, heh
Apr 06 12:57:30 <Stskeeps> i mean, i'm currently compiling Qt using it
Apr 06 12:58:05 * Stskeeps is amazed.
Apr 06 12:58:18 <Stskeeps> (special qemu btw, that is patched to fix the bugs)
Apr 06 12:59:09 <RST38h> SB2 solution where you prepend all cross commmands with sb2 is ok with me
Apr 06 12:59:28 <RST38h> Yours sounds like SB2 solution really
Apr 06 13:00:04 <Stskeeps> mm
Apr 06 13:00:10 <Stskeeps> yeah, similar goals
Apr 06 13:00:41 <RST38h> oh btw once you chroot, will your external files still be available?
Apr 06 13:01:00 <Stskeeps> i guess you can do that with mount --bind
Apr 06 13:03:03 <lizardo> X-Fade: the package is still there, waiting to be built ... any ideas ?
Apr 06 13:04:13 <lizardo> X-Fade: this is the first time I ever saw this behavior when uploading to fremantle extras-devel
Apr 06 13:05:19 <X-Fade> lizardo: maemo-python-env_1.1.0.orig.tar.gz: No such file or directory
Apr 06 13:06:09 <lizardo> X-Fade: the 1.1.0-4 version does not contains a .orig.tar.gz, only the plain .tar.gz + .dsc ...
Apr 06 13:06:35 <X-Fade> lizardo: check your .dsc
Apr 06 13:06:41 <lizardo> X-Fade: dput just accepted it without errors... should I try using the extras-assistant ?
Apr 06 13:06:55 <X-Fade> lizardo:  94330d0e4c89030f87ce8f6289384aba 133 maemo-python-env_1.1.0.orig.tar.gz
Apr 06 13:06:56 <lizardo> X-Fade: ....
Apr 06 13:07:01 <lizardo> X-Fade: you are right :(
Apr 06 13:08:05 <lizardo> X-Fade: dammit, I cleaned up everything and just did the buildpackage -S ... will try again , sorry for bothering you :(
Apr 06 13:08:35 <X-Fade> lizardo: Heh, no problem :)
Apr 06 13:14:27 <lizardo> X-Fade: BTW, is the autobuilder's NEW queue available through HTTP ? https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/ only lists those packages the already started building (it seems)
Apr 06 13:15:08 <X-Fade> lizardo: https://garage.maemo.org/extras-assistant/index.php
Apr 06 13:17:06 <lizardo> X-Fade: I mean, access the files themselves , not just the list?
Apr 06 13:19:30 <lizardo> X-Fade: anyway, now the build passed just fine :) it still looks strange why the dsc got wrong on the previous try, without dput complaining at all...
Apr 06 13:28:10 <Jaffa> X-Fade: Seen http://maemo.org/profile/list/ (top 3 entries)?
Apr 06 13:30:09 <lizardo> those damm ghosts...
Apr 06 13:32:05 <X-Fade> Jaffa: Looking at it..
Apr 06 13:40:00 <GAN800> Defeated by ghost clones!
Apr 06 13:41:52 <Stskeeps> hehe
Apr 06 13:42:22 <thux> who you gonna call, ghostbusters
Apr 06 13:43:42 <lizardo> X-Fade: and just in case it was not reported yet, I get the following PHP error when logging out from maemo.org: Fatal error: Class '__org_openpsa_products_product_group_dba' not found in /mnt/netapp/pear/midcom/lib/org/openpsa/products/product/group.php on line 13
Apr 06 13:45:15 <X-Fade> lizardo: Hmm not good, will check.
Apr 06 13:51:04 <lizardo> X-Fade: and just one more: sometimes I see this one when editing my profile on maemo.org: Notice: Undefined variable: guid in /mnt/netapp/pear/midcom/lib/midcom/baseclasses/database/parameter.php on line 46
Apr 06 13:57:23 <RST38h> Sts: I think it is way better to at least let the developer have his original file system
Apr 06 13:57:35 <RST38h> Sts: No sandboxes disconnected from the main filesystem
Apr 06 14:00:39 <GAN800> Later, folks.
Apr 06 14:35:19 <lopz> hola
Apr 06 15:39:25 * lcuk wonders if hes in the right #maemo
Apr 06 15:40:11 <timelE61i> hello world
Apr 06 15:40:19 <Stskeeps> hello timeles
Apr 06 15:40:20 <Stskeeps> s
Apr 06 15:40:25 <timelE61i> Anyone here have time for two quick reboots?
Apr 06 15:40:43 <timelE61i> 1. Switch to es-ES (reboot)
Apr 06 15:41:04 <timelE61i> 2. Tell me when you reach this step :)
Apr 06 15:41:28 <lardman> ~lart MEX file debugging
Apr 06 15:41:29 * infobot grabs a large, mis-shapened log, with squirrels, and beats MEX file debugging until only the nuts remain ... which the squirrels run off with
Apr 06 15:41:36 <Stskeeps> timelE61i: will it trash my tablet? :P
Apr 06 15:41:42 <lardman> lcuk: make you feel more at home, me ranting about MATLAB?
Apr 06 15:41:55 <qwerty12> It will mine: localepurge is in effect on my N800 :P
Apr 06 15:42:18 * Stskeeps watches qt build and build
Apr 06 15:43:03 <lcuk> heh lardman :D sounds good - hows your monday goin
Apr 06 15:43:05 <timelE61i> sts: unless you do something stupid, no
Apr 06 15:43:05 <Stskeeps> timelE61i: and then?
Apr 06 15:43:13 <timelE61i> Open reloj
Apr 06 15:43:30 <lcuk> apart from mex stuff ;)
Apr 06 15:43:31 <lardman> lcuk: not too bad
Apr 06 15:43:32 <Stskeeps> reloj? :P
Apr 06 15:43:37 <timelE61i> It's white and looks like a clock :)
Apr 06 15:44:08 <Stskeeps> and? :P
Apr 06 15:44:16 <lcuk> ive got liqbase on a nice shiney git server with a pretty management tool behind it (H)
Apr 06 15:44:24 <timelE61i> hold on :)
Apr 06 15:45:11 <timelE61i> App menu, herramientas, ajustes de fecha y hora...
Apr 06 15:45:40 * lardman gives himself a small kick for a school-boy coding error
Apr 06 15:45:43 <Stskeeps> mm?
Apr 06 15:45:44 <timelE61i> Seleccionar ciudad de origen
Apr 06 15:45:48 <lcuk> timelE61i, do you understand this, or have you got quim nearby to translate for you :D
Apr 06 15:46:11 <timelE61i> Lcuk: yo hablo espanol tambien
Apr 06 15:46:21 <qwerty12> lol
Apr 06 15:46:31 <Stskeeps> timelE61i: and then?
Apr 06 15:46:37 <lardman> hay un playa por aqui?
Apr 06 15:46:38 <lcuk> lardman, i cured a major stinker of a stupid error last week that had been in place since 2006! (dayjob)
Apr 06 15:46:42 <timelE61i> Ciudad del vaticano....
Apr 06 15:46:48 <timelE61i> Aceptar
Apr 06 15:46:52 <timelE61i> Aceptar
Apr 06 15:46:55 <lcuk> timelE61i, no-io i dont-io speak-io the language-io
Apr 06 15:46:57 <timelE61i> full screen
Apr 06 15:47:05 <timelE61i> App menu, herramientas, ajustes de fecha y hora...
Apr 06 15:47:14 <lardman> timelE61i: his popeliness appears as it crashes?
Apr 06 15:47:23 <timelE61i> close
Apr 06 15:47:23 <Stskeeps> timelE61i: uh, nice dialog box
Apr 06 15:47:40 <Stskeeps> timelE61i: the dialog box for fecha y hora is going absolutely mental
Apr 06 15:48:00 <timelE61i> a guy here complained it wasn't performant
Apr 06 15:48:03 <timelE61i> Too slow :)
Apr 06 15:48:10 <qwerty12> So would I if I was called a hor :)
Apr 06 15:48:13 <Stskeeps> .. i think it's flashing thailand at me
Apr 06 15:48:52 <Stskeeps> timelE61i: bascially the dialog box is changing size at the wrapping of l Vatican
Apr 06 15:48:56 <Stskeeps> forth and  back
Apr 06 15:49:12 <Stskeeps> repeatedly
Apr 06 15:49:28 <timelE61i> you're certain it's wrapping?
Apr 06 15:49:45 <timelE61i> Because you aren't allowed to wrap "del" at de-
Apr 06 15:49:59 <timelE61i> You could split to de/el, if you spoke spanish
Apr 06 15:50:13 <Stskeeps> timelE61i: well, it doesn't exactly succed in wrapping
Apr 06 15:50:15 <timelE61i> But it's unlikely this thing actually speaks it
Apr 06 15:50:24 <Stskeeps> the dialog is expanding and compressing constantly
Apr 06 15:50:25 <timelE61i> Sts: certainly not :)
Apr 06 15:50:48 <timelE61i> As a coworker said, it's more like 1fps, which isn't a good constant :)
Apr 06 15:51:02 <Stskeeps> hehe
Apr 06 15:51:20 <Stskeeps> can i switch back now? :P
Apr 06 15:51:32 <timelE61i> We generally have targets of better than 10fps :)
Apr 06 15:51:36 <timelE61i> Yeah, we're done
Apr 06 16:13:00 <lcuk> timelE61i, if oyu make it SO quick the flashing starts to be a problem that you need to include generic strobe warnings on the device ;)
Apr 06 16:15:13 <wazd_n800> Back
Apr 06 16:15:58 <timelE61i> aRe you sure we don't have that warning?
Apr 06 16:24:45 <StsN800> mm, nothing like a thick curry sauce
Apr 06 16:25:40 <lardman> to hide the flashing?
Apr 06 16:28:06 <lardman> cu all
Apr 06 17:02:21 <Stskeeps> 'lo penguinbait
Apr 06 17:02:31 <penguinbait> hey
Apr 06 17:55:38 <Stskeeps> hmm, who of you were the VLC-hildon people? :P
Apr 06 18:05:23 <RST38h> back
Apr 06 18:05:26 <Stskeeps> wb
Apr 06 18:29:17 <lcuk> ~lart git
Apr 06 18:29:17 * infobot puts on some milking gloves.  "All right, now, git, this won't hurt a bit...."
Apr 06 18:33:03 <thux> is infobot supybot?
Apr 06 18:40:12 <sjgadsby> Why does the "Log in" link on http://www.maemo.org/ lead to Bugzilla?
Apr 06 18:40:48 <Stskeeps> hint to file a bug on it? ;)
Apr 06 18:41:06 <sjgadsby> That's pretty much what I'm thinking.
Apr 06 18:41:17 <sjgadsby> I suppose I'll take the hint.
Apr 06 18:49:53 * sjgadsby blames GAN800.
Apr 06 18:50:02 <GAN800> wut?
Apr 06 18:50:20 <sjgadsby> https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4253
Apr 06 18:51:18 <GAN800> Probably more productive to blame X-Fade. :P
Apr 06 18:51:31 <sjgadsby> Yes, but  you're here.
Apr 06 18:51:37 <GAN800> Lies
Apr 06 19:00:09 <RST38h> sjgadsby: doesn't it make perfect sense?
Apr 06 19:00:17 <bbns> hi all. I have noticed the N810 coming with ambient light sensors and I noticed that it has IR sensor to check proximity.
Apr 06 19:00:59 <bbns> Is therer anyway to access the proximity? (I have successfully access the ambient light sensor but it only gives on lux value).
Apr 06 19:01:17 <Stskeeps> hm, didn't know there was a IR sensor
Apr 06 19:01:25 <RST38h> n810 has no ir sensor
Apr 06 19:01:31 <lcuk> bbns, what makes you think there is one?
Apr 06 19:01:43 <GeneralAntilles> RST38h, webcam. :D
Apr 06 19:01:56 <ShadowJK> I wonder if hte webcam picks up IR :)
Apr 06 19:02:03 * GeneralAntilles contemplates hauling a G5 up 3 flights of stairs with some distaste.
Apr 06 19:02:04 <bbns> lcuk, i checked the spec from the manufacture.
Apr 06 19:02:16 <lcuk> this spec is available where?
Apr 06 19:02:22 <bbns> let me check
Apr 06 19:03:09 <lcuk> it can't be the webcam, he said sensor - it would actually have to sense things ;) :P
Apr 06 19:03:34 <RST38h> Gen: if you manage to access it through all the api garbage =)
Apr 06 19:03:53 <bbns> lcuk, tsl2563 dataseet: http://news.thomasnet.com/pdf/478523.pdf
Apr 06 19:04:00 <GeneralAntilles> lcuk, sure has no trouble sensing your ugly face. :P
Apr 06 19:04:22 <bbns> lcuk, it looks like it comes with dual dide. one is ambient light sensor, one is IR.
Apr 06 19:04:26 <lcuk> well thats where its gone wrong, im not ugly IRL :D
Apr 06 19:04:31 <ShadowJK> hey, camera sees the IR transmitter of my phone :-)
Apr 06 19:04:50 <GeneralAntilles> lcuk, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and the camera never lies. :D
Apr 06 19:05:08 <RST38h> cheap cell phone cameras will generally see near ir
Apr 06 19:05:28 <bbns> lcuk, i suspect the IR one actually enables the AF or aperture adjustment for inward camera.
Apr 06 19:05:51 <lcuk> i wasnt aware the camera had either
Apr 06 19:05:58 <lcuk> like zoom: move device closer
Apr 06 19:06:02 <ShadowJK> RST38h, it'd be more fun if they completely left out the IR filter so that you could have nightvision :-)
Apr 06 19:06:03 <lcuk> illumination: turn the light on
Apr 06 19:06:18 <lcuk> flash: open your mac
Apr 06 19:06:23 <Stskeeps> ShadowJK: oh that'd be a neat app  :P
Apr 06 19:07:20 <crashanddie> IR isn't exactly night vision
Apr 06 19:07:28 <crashanddie> allows to see through opaque things though
Apr 06 19:07:55 <ShadowJK> Yeah add a IR powerled and it becomes see in the dark
Apr 06 19:12:24 <crashanddie> Stskeeps, is there git on mer?
Apr 06 19:12:31 <Stskeeps> most likely? :P
Apr 06 19:12:53 <crashanddie> do I need to install specific repos? Like maybe the maemo ones?
Apr 06 19:13:09 <Stskeeps> no, just apt-get install git-core
Apr 06 19:13:46 <crashanddie> oh wow, there's the ubuntu ports and everything?
Apr 06 19:14:23 <GeneralAntilles> It is Ubuntu
Apr 06 19:14:35 <crashanddie> ok, fair enough :)
Apr 06 19:14:49 <crashanddie> hi GA o/
Apr 06 19:14:54 <crashanddie> how's it going buddy?
Apr 06 19:15:39 <GeneralAntilles> My computers are falling apart
Apr 06 19:15:43 <GeneralAntilles> but otherwise great
Apr 06 19:16:05 <crashanddie> told you HP wasn't a good buy
Apr 06 19:16:22 <GeneralAntilles> HP?
Apr 06 19:16:30 <crashanddie> or Packard Bell
Apr 06 19:16:36 <crashanddie> dunno what shite you bought, dawg
Apr 06 19:16:45 <GeneralAntilles> Leaking G5. :(
Apr 06 19:16:50 <crashanddie> oh Mac?
Apr 06 19:16:55 <GeneralAntilles> lol
Apr 06 19:16:58 <crashanddie> what the fuck did you do to the poor thing
Apr 06 19:17:05 <GeneralAntilles> Nothing
Apr 06 19:17:10 <crashanddie> btw, is a G5 any good for today's use?
Apr 06 19:17:15 <GeneralAntilles> Apparently it's a common issue with the LCS G5s.
Apr 06 19:17:25 <GeneralAntilles> Um, if you already own one.
Apr 06 19:17:30 <crashanddie> nope
Apr 06 19:17:38 <GeneralAntilles> I wouldn't buy one to have one, though.
Apr 06 19:17:46 <GeneralAntilles> You can do cheaper and better if you just need PPC
Apr 06 19:18:07 <GeneralAntilles> There's a bit of nostalgia inflation on the last gen PPC Macs.
Apr 06 19:19:57 <RST38h> ShadowJK: I do suspect they completley left out the ir filter :)
Apr 06 19:20:16 <ShadowJK> nah it looks kinda faint actually
Apr 06 19:20:18 <RST38h> ShadowJK: it is just that the sensor is rather crappy and its ir sensitivity is kinda low
Apr 06 19:20:45 <crashanddie> lol
Apr 06 19:21:08 <crashanddie> "Your SSH key has been uploaded. It may take a moment or two before becoming active"
Apr 06 19:21:14 <crashanddie> define:duration of moment
Apr 06 19:21:26 <crashanddie> how long is two moments?
Apr 06 19:22:01 <sjgadsby> Are these metric or imperial moments?
Apr 06 19:22:43 <crashanddie> dunno, didn't say
Apr 06 19:24:39 <crashanddie> ah, Wikipedia defines everything
Apr 06 19:24:40 <crashanddie> A moment is a medieval unit of time equal to 1.5 minutes or 1/40 of an hour
Apr 06 19:25:32 <crashanddie> or 5/114 of a second
Apr 06 19:25:48 <crashanddie> that's the imperial one I gather, stupid fractions
Apr 06 19:27:04 <lcuk> thats not imperial, thats for 3 mile island schoolkids to count with their fingers
Apr 06 19:29:04 * sjgadsby lives 100 miles from Three Mile Island.
Apr 06 19:30:08 <lcuk> sjgadsby, wouldnt even get warm near you
Apr 06 19:30:54 <||cw> sure it's not 103 miles?
Apr 06 19:31:14 <lcuk> lol
Apr 06 19:31:40 <sjgadsby> ||cw: Actually, according to Google Maps, that is the driving distance.
Apr 06 19:33:28 <VDVsx> wooow, maemo.org is a little bit f%&k up right now :P
Apr 06 19:34:16 <lcuk> ch ch ch ch changes
Apr 06 19:35:01 <lcuk> \o hi wazd
Apr 06 19:35:14 <wazd> hello again)
Apr 06 19:35:50 <lcuk> hmm ive got a statusbar clock thing from extras, it doesnt refresh the time very often
Apr 06 19:36:08 <crashanddie> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tBHOuHolYw
Apr 06 19:36:33 <lcuk> they kicked the server
Apr 06 19:37:19 <crashanddie> lcuk, the fact my public key is not getting updated would corroborate the fact they're out of synch
Apr 06 19:37:35 <lcuk> try it now, its found my update
Apr 06 19:37:40 <Stskeeps> 'lo wazd
Apr 06 19:38:00 <crashanddie> lcuk, mer lost wifi xD
Apr 06 19:52:45 <wazd> fresh vista runs like demon
Apr 06 19:54:23 <GeneralAntilles> Warranty exception. Hell yes!
Apr 06 19:54:51 <sjgadsby> Apple's going to fix your G5?
Apr 06 19:55:01 <GeneralAntilles> Yeah
Apr 06 19:55:06 <sjgadsby> Woo!
Apr 06 19:55:21 <GeneralAntilles> Tried to talk them up to a replacement machine, but a repair on a 4-year-old computer works for me.
Apr 06 19:55:51 <sjgadsby> Ha! But if they have to send a dual quad core instead, you won't complain.
Apr 06 19:56:24 <LinuxCode> sjgadsby, they will replace one of their own office machines first with a new one and slaughter it for spares
Apr 06 19:56:26 <LinuxCode> ;-p
Apr 06 19:57:12 <GeneralAntilles> sjgadsby, we'll see what happens. Other users have had Apple offer them replacement machines after they've had trouble getting the parts.
Apr 06 19:57:33 <sjgadsby> GeneralAntilles: Yep, I've heard the same thing from others.
Apr 06 19:58:09 <GeneralAntilles> I pushed the "What if it leaks again and I electrocute myself?" line to no success.
Apr 06 19:58:24 <sjgadsby> Nice one!
Apr 06 19:58:37 <LinuxCode> lol
Apr 06 19:58:51 <GeneralAntilles> That coolant shorting that big 750 watt PSU to that giant metal case would be less than enjoyable.
Apr 06 19:58:57 <LinuxCode> GeneralAntilles, was the respinse, then dont put your hands in there ?
Apr 06 19:59:12 <LinuxCode> -i+o
Apr 06 19:59:18 <GeneralAntilles> He gave me his direct line if I had any issues with the repair. ;)
Apr 06 19:59:22 <GeneralAntilles> Sort of side stepped it.
Apr 06 19:59:26 <LinuxCode> cool
Apr 06 19:59:43 <LinuxCode> how much did you have to battle with them until they agreed to repair ?
Apr 06 20:00:13 <GeneralAntilles> Well, I started with a call to Apple last week that didn't go past L1
Apr 06 20:00:31 <LinuxCode> Is US law the same like UK law ? here if something is high value, you can expect a certain reasonable life-time
Apr 06 20:00:35 <GeneralAntilles> Took it to the Genius bar in Tampa later that week and had a long (and fruitless) discussion with one of the AM1s
Apr 06 20:00:49 <LinuxCode> AM1 ?
Apr 06 20:01:02 <GeneralAntilles> Er, Senior Assistant Manager. ;)
Apr 06 20:01:04 <LinuxCode> kk
Apr 06 20:01:13 <GeneralAntilles> (which I didn't realize at the time, thought she was the store manager)
Apr 06 20:01:20 <LinuxCode> hehe
Apr 06 20:01:40 <GeneralAntilles> I managed to talk them into giving me a case number so Apple didn't just refer me right back to a service center
Apr 06 20:01:44 <LinuxCode> aka time wasted as not speaking to person with authority ?
Apr 06 20:01:56 <LinuxCode> ahh cool
Apr 06 20:01:59 <GeneralAntilles> Well, I dunno how much power is delegated to the assistant managers there
Apr 06 20:02:07 <LinuxCode> and then what did you do next ?
Apr 06 20:02:10 <GeneralAntilles> but she's telling me that she doesn't have any options to help me
Apr 06 20:02:23 <GeneralAntilles> and I'm not sure I buy that coming from an AM1. ;)
Apr 06 20:02:32 <GeneralAntilles> Called Apple today
Apr 06 20:02:37 <GeneralAntilles> gave my case number to L1
Apr 06 20:02:58 <GeneralAntilles> he put me on hold a bit and transfered me right over to the customer relations guy
Apr 06 20:03:06 <LinuxCode> hehe cool
Apr 06 20:03:10 <LinuxCode> and he offered ?
Apr 06 20:03:31 <GeneralAntilles> told him my story, he put me on hold for a bit longer, did some tap dancing about how far out of warranty and how old my machine was then offered me a warranty exception.
Apr 06 20:03:58 <LinuxCode> interesting
Apr 06 20:04:12 <LinuxCode> so is US law like UK law in that respect ?
Apr 06 20:04:20 <GeneralAntilles> No, not really
Apr 06 20:04:23 <LinuxCode> if they give in like that, sounds dodgy
Apr 06 20:04:29 <GeneralAntilles> The EU has stronger consumer protection laws as far as repairs go.
Apr 06 20:04:37 <LinuxCode> hehe
Apr 06 20:04:46 <LinuxCode> EU likes consumers yes
Apr 06 20:04:56 <GeneralAntilles> Which you end up paying for anyway. :P
Apr 06 20:04:56 <LinuxCode> sadly my fellow Citizens dont seem to realize that much
Apr 06 20:05:06 <sjgadsby> It's likely a known issue internally, so they're willing to do something if you show a bit of persistence.
Apr 06 20:05:18 <LinuxCode> sjgadsby, thats what Im thinking too
Apr 06 20:05:34 <GeneralAntilles> Well, some cases have had to sign NDAs
Apr 06 20:05:43 <GeneralAntilles> Some I'm quite sure they know it's a problem.
Apr 06 20:05:55 <GeneralAntilles> Thank god for xlr8yourmac.com, though.
Apr 06 20:06:01 <GeneralAntilles> Gave me a lot of ammo to use
Apr 06 20:06:12 <LinuxCode> very interesting
Apr 06 20:06:18 * LinuxCode needs to keep that in mind
Apr 06 20:06:23 <LinuxCode> I shall inform my brother
Apr 06 20:06:30 <LinuxCode> he is the Mac person
Apr 06 20:06:48 <LinuxCode> bastard with his dual quad core lol
Apr 06 20:06:52 <GeneralAntilles> lol
Apr 06 20:06:58 * GeneralAntilles crosses his fingers.
Apr 06 20:07:09 <LinuxCode> how many cores did your box have ?
Apr 06 20:07:09 * sjgadsby isn't going to mention the dual quad core he has on the way.
Apr 06 20:07:13 <GeneralAntilles> I'll pay the difference to an octocore Nehalem if they offer me something.
Apr 06 20:07:20 <GeneralAntilles> It's pre multi-core
Apr 06 20:07:25 <LinuxCode> hehe k
Apr 06 20:07:25 <GeneralAntilles> Dual 2.5GHz G5
Apr 06 20:07:37 <LinuxCode> I hope you get a quad then
Apr 06 20:07:39 <LinuxCode> ;-p
Apr 06 20:07:41 <GeneralAntilles> Hehe
Apr 06 20:07:49 <GeneralAntilles> It's be great if I can get a Mac Pro
Apr 06 20:07:54 <LinuxCode> I dont suspect you will though, tbh
Apr 06 20:07:58 <GeneralAntilles> Save me the $3000 upgrade cost for another 4 or 5 years.
Apr 06 20:08:03 <GeneralAntilles> We'll see
Apr 06 20:08:09 <GeneralAntilles> I bet they've stocked up on parts a bit.
Apr 06 20:08:12 <LinuxCode> keep us informed
Apr 06 20:08:25 <LinuxCode> Im very intruiged to here what will happen
Apr 06 20:08:25 <GeneralAntilles> Assuming they don't NDA my ass. :D
Apr 06 20:08:29 <LinuxCode> lol
Apr 06 20:08:38 <LinuxCode> I dont know you, you dont know me
Apr 06 20:08:44 <LinuxCode> ;-x
Apr 06 20:08:57 <GeneralAntilles> Hehe, my online identity is awfully easy to track.
Apr 06 20:09:24 <LinuxCode> you can always email me and tell em you are installing fedora on a quad or dual core machine
Apr 06 20:09:26 <LinuxCode> lol
Apr 06 20:09:35 <GeneralAntilles> Ha
Apr 06 20:09:36 <LinuxCode> ;-p
Apr 06 20:09:37 * RST38h once again curses ridiculous Aeroflot web interface
Apr 06 20:09:42 * LinuxCode will know then
Apr 06 20:10:33 * LinuxCode goes back to work
Apr 06 20:20:12 <RST38h> How do I return stuck FF session to life?
Apr 06 20:20:24 <RST38h> Is there some Ctrl-Break key sequence? =)
Apr 06 20:20:56 <qwerty12_N800> shock baton
Apr 06 20:21:10 <RST38h> A'ok...applying shock baton
Apr 06 20:21:18 <Stskeeps> shock bacon?
Apr 06 20:34:25 <RST38h> Hehe, Aeroflot uses Google Analytics to collect website stats
Apr 06 20:35:41 <LinuxCode> many people/compnaies do
Apr 06 20:35:58 <LinuxCode> in fact, its become a bit of a security issue now
Apr 06 20:40:36 <RST38h> you bet...
Apr 06 20:45:11 <jeremiah_> shock bacon, aeroflot, I have missed alot to day.
Apr 06 20:45:25 <GeneralAntilles> Idle bettar
Apr 06 20:45:42 <GeneralAntilles> Ooh Rev.C Beagle is here
Apr 06 20:46:12 <zakkm> GeneralAntilles: Excited for Snow Leopard?
Apr 06 20:47:31 <GeneralAntilles> zakkm, the likelihood is that it wont run on my G5, so, no.
Apr 06 20:47:38 <zakkm> hah
Apr 06 20:47:51 <zakkm> running on a nice tweaked overclocked osx x86 myself.
Apr 06 20:49:39 <jeremiah_> x86 rules
Apr 06 20:50:06 <jeremiah_> Although I would kinda like to have a Cell cluster to play with.
Apr 06 20:50:09 <zakkm> jeremiah_: you use osx x86 too?
Apr 06 20:50:13 <Stskeeps> i wouldn't mind a sheevaplug
Apr 06 20:50:29 <jeremiah_> zakkm: Dual boot debian and leopard.
Apr 06 20:50:35 <GeneralAntilles> jeremiah_, what you mean is x86 sucks. ;)
Apr 06 20:50:38 <jeremiah_> On a mac mini.
Apr 06 20:50:39 <zakkm> on a non-apple machine?
Apr 06 20:50:41 <zakkm> oh
Apr 06 20:50:50 <zakkm> dont like macports?
Apr 06 20:50:52 <jeremiah_> Stskeeps: Me too - they look fun.
Apr 06 20:51:06 <jeremiah_> zakkm: No, it is always out of date and fink is not apt
Apr 06 20:51:21 <jeremiah_> But I think it is great that Mac ports exists
Apr 06 20:51:36 <jeremiah_> And it is great work, it is just that I am spoiled by debian
Apr 06 20:51:41 <GeneralAntilles> Fink is Fink. Fink is not MacPorts.
Apr 06 20:51:41 <zakkm> heh
Apr 06 20:52:09 <zakkm> its a alternate though
Apr 06 20:52:09 <jeremiah_> Yeah, that is why I say fink is not apt and Mac ports is out of date. :)
Apr 06 20:52:30 <GeneralAntilles> Ah, OK. :P
Apr 06 20:52:34 <jeremiah_> fink is apt ported to OS X. Mac ports is BSD ports ported to OS X.
Apr 06 20:52:39 <GeneralAntilles> I've found them both to be out of date.
Apr 06 20:52:44 <jeremiah_> Yeah, me too.
Apr 06 20:52:45 <zakkm> i didnt think it was that bad
Apr 06 20:52:51 <zakkm> i dont have x11 so i cant try it out
Apr 06 20:52:53 <jeremiah_> No, I shouldn't critize.
Apr 06 20:52:55 <zakkm> its like 3gb :(
Apr 06 20:53:06 <jeremiah_> zakkm: Don't have X11?
Apr 06 20:53:09 <zakkm> no
Apr 06 20:53:11 <jeremiah_> It is free from Apple
Apr 06 20:53:13 <zakkm> i know
Apr 06 20:53:17 <jeremiah_> oh.
Apr 06 20:53:24 <zakkm> but its a 3gb download, thats like 24 hours for my pc.. of full bandwidth
Apr 06 20:53:31 <zakkm> which i thought isnt worth it ;p
Apr 06 20:53:31 <jeremiah_> oh, that sucks.
Apr 06 20:53:37 <Stskeeps> 3g for X11?
Apr 06 20:53:38 <jeremiah_> I totally understand.
Apr 06 20:53:38 <Stskeeps> jesus
Apr 06 20:53:48 <jeremiah_> But that does seem a little large for X11
Apr 06 20:53:48 <zakkm> it has other stuf too
Apr 06 20:53:48 <GeneralAntilles> 3GB for XCode
Apr 06 20:53:53 <GeneralAntilles> x11 is, like, 80MB
Apr 06 20:53:57 <zakkm> oh
Apr 06 20:53:58 <zakkm> xcode thats it
Apr 06 20:53:59 <zakkm> sorry
Apr 06 20:54:04 <jeremiah_> Yeah, must be 3G for Xcode
Apr 06 20:54:12 <zakkm> i think i have x11 then, cause darwine works
Apr 06 20:54:19 <jeremiah_> XCode is pretty amazing though.
Apr 06 20:54:23 <zakkm> wait yeah i got x11
Apr 06 20:54:27 <jeremiah_> If I had to use an IDE, I would use that.
Apr 06 20:54:29 <zakkm> 168 kb :)
Apr 06 20:54:31 <zakkm> heh
Apr 06 20:55:15 <zakkm> I hate genie effect, it can be so jerky sometimes.
Apr 06 20:55:45 <zakkm> did you guys enable QuartzGL/Quartz 2D Extreme?
Apr 06 20:55:56 <jeremiah_> GeneralAntilles: I was kind of disappointed by the meeting today.
Apr 06 20:56:07 <zakkm> oh yeah how'd the meeting go
Apr 06 20:56:08 <GeneralAntilles> jeremiah_, don't blame me
Apr 06 20:56:16 <zakkm> i had school ;p
Apr 06 20:56:21 <jeremiah_> GeneralAntilles: Okay, I won't. :)
Apr 06 20:56:31 <GeneralAntilles> You can officially blame all of your problems on the new sucker^W chair, Jaffa. ;)
Apr 06 20:56:35 <zakkm> what happened? whaat was discussed?
Apr 06 20:56:44 <jeremiah_> zakkm: I didn't enjoy it, let put it that way.
Apr 06 20:56:46 <GeneralAntilles> jeremiah_, I was driving while the meeting was happening, so. ;)
Apr 06 20:57:40 <zakkm> what was the point of the meeting? like what changed?
Apr 06 20:57:44 * GeneralAntilles contemplates putting 5 drives in his stand-in G5 but decides to browse /. instead.
Apr 06 20:57:52 <GeneralAntilles> zakkm, it's a sprint review
Apr 06 20:58:02 <zakkm> for maemo or mer?
Apr 06 20:58:02 <GeneralAntilles> They're monthly
Apr 06 20:58:05 <jeremiah_> zakkm: Well, it was the first meeting with the new council and it was a sprint review, like GA says
Apr 06 20:58:05 <GeneralAntilles> maemo.org
Apr 06 20:58:41 <GeneralAntilles> Sprint reviews are always variable.
Apr 06 20:58:58 <GeneralAntilles> Sometimes people are engaged and ready to report, sometimes they're not.
Apr 06 20:59:09 <zakkm> heh so up to a bad start? :P
Apr 06 20:59:16 <jeremiah_> I think the paid staff and the council should serve for the same period and at the same time.
Apr 06 20:59:47 <jeremiah_> I think it is, umm, questionable, that a new council tries to change horses in mid-stream
Apr 06 21:00:13 <Stskeeps> jeremiah_: ah, i think he was maybe trying to figure out how on earth the organization is put together
Apr 06 21:00:13 <zakkm> how much paid people are there?
Apr 06 21:00:42 <zakkm> me? no i just wanted to know if there was some major news announced
Apr 06 21:00:52 <jeremiah_> Stskeeps: What gives you that impression - I think the word "boss" popped more than once.
Apr 06 21:01:04 <jeremiah_> zakkm: Sorry to disappoint you, just politics. :)
Apr 06 21:01:04 <GeneralAntilles> jeremiah_, well, the paid staff aren't on synchronized contracts themselves, so I don't see how that's possible.
Apr 06 21:01:22 <GeneralAntilles> Do we have a log that I could look at?
Apr 06 21:01:32 <Stskeeps> jeremiah_: (i don't have a particular opinion about this though) - i read it as exploring how council relates to the employees
Apr 06 21:01:40 <jeremiah_> GeneralAntilles: Trivially easy. You just start the paid staff on a six month contract at the same time as the council
Apr 06 21:02:27 <GeneralAntilles> What's this about changing horses midstream?
Apr 06 21:03:04 <jeremiah_> Do we have a log somewhere? I didn't save one.
Apr 06 21:03:13 <jeremiah_> I know that there is a log of #maemo somewhere.
Apr 06 21:03:17 <Stskeeps> yeah, http://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/log.meeting
Apr 06 21:03:40 <jeremiah_> Thanks Stskeeps
Apr 06 21:04:50 <zakkm> qole is council?
Apr 06 21:05:12 <Stskeeps> jeremiah_: i'm curious if the general rule is that employees of maemo.org are directed by maemo.org or how it goes - the thing about making a position up for renewal each 6 months is weird though, that's up to contract :P
Apr 06 21:05:36 <Stskeeps> err.. directed by maemo.org council
Apr 06 21:05:55 <zakkm> just oddly curious.. how much roughly would a maemo.org council member make?
Apr 06 21:06:01 <Stskeeps> 0$? :P
Apr 06 21:06:07 <zakkm> volunteered?
Apr 06 21:06:13 <Stskeeps> elected
Apr 06 21:06:32 <jeremiah_> <I'm still unclear about the council's role in "policing" the paid maemo.org team. To what extent are we the team's "bosses"?
Apr 06 21:06:35 <zakkm> but no pay at all / no benefits?
Apr 06 21:06:45 <jeremiah_> ^^ That particularly rubs my fur the wrong way.
Apr 06 21:07:18 <Stskeeps> jeremiah_: it's a valid question as i don't think it's directly defined
Apr 06 21:07:21 <qwerty12_N800> zakkm: the warm feeling that you're doing good for the community.
Apr 06 21:07:23 <jeremiah_> In open source communities, police and bosses are frowned upon.
Apr 06 21:07:58 <zakkm> are you guys council members?
Apr 06 21:08:06 <Stskeeps> jeremiah_: obviously - but in a hypothetical situation, that a employee doesn't do what he's paid to do, who decides that the guy should be fired?
Apr 06 21:09:22 <Stskeeps> zakkm: i'm not
Apr 06 21:10:20 <Stskeeps> jeremiah_: it's always difficult to mix open source projects and money :)
Apr 06 21:10:46 <jeremiah_> Stskeeps: I strongly agree with you.
Apr 06 21:10:58 <jeremiah_> And I praise Nokia for doing such a good job.
Apr 06 21:11:28 <jeremiah_> zakkm: I am not a council member, but GeneralAntilles is.
Apr 06 21:11:40 <zakkm> kool
Apr 06 21:11:59 <zakkm> didnt realize the maemo project was so big
Apr 06 21:12:10 <Stskeeps> in my own personal and unfounded view, i see maemo.org employees as the executing part of the community, - they get paid to get the community things done, based on the role their contract states
Apr 06 21:13:38 <zakkm> curiousity, if i were to want a reasonable app "ported" , is there someones job to do it just by me requesting?
Apr 06 21:13:48 <Stskeeps> and i guess council is a way to make sure that role is 1) possible 2) has a person in it that does that job 3) help develop the role based on community decisions
Apr 06 21:14:18 <Stskeeps> when there's wage involved you don't get around that someone pays the bills / gives you work to do :P
Apr 06 21:14:43 <zakkm> seems like an awesome job
Apr 06 21:14:48 <Stskeeps> i'd love a maemo.org job. :P
Apr 06 21:14:55 <Stskeeps> (if i was without work atm)
Apr 06 21:15:20 <zakkm> you guys are online so much, i wonder if you work ;p
Apr 06 21:15:38 <lcuk> zakkm, some people play warcraft in their spare time :)
Apr 06 21:15:44 <lcuk> others play maemo :)
Apr 06 21:16:08 <zakkm> im aware, i just find it unique that everytime im on here, everyone else seems to be
Apr 06 21:16:27 <lcuk> the internet never sleeps
Apr 06 21:16:30 <jeremiah_> Stskeeps: You do a hell of a job with mer.
Apr 06 21:16:42 <jeremiah_> Stskeeps: You should definitely have a maemo job at some point.
Apr 06 21:16:55 <zakkm> i 2nd that
Apr 06 21:17:11 <Stskeeps> hehe. but that's side tracking the current conversation :)
Apr 06 21:17:16 <wazd> Maemo should hire 1/2 of the Community :P
Apr 06 21:17:49 <zakkm> maemo should switch to mer
Apr 06 21:17:50 <wazd> Cause I was really surprised with such bright minds within community
Apr 06 21:17:50 <zakkm> ;p
Apr 06 21:18:13 <zakkm> the maemo project should end, and all development should go towards mer
Apr 06 21:18:18 <Stskeeps> nah
Apr 06 21:18:22 <wazd> zakkm: nowai
Apr 06 21:18:24 <Stskeeps> i don't agree on that point, zakkm
Apr 06 21:18:45 <zakkm> arent you stuck by alot of things, avaliable to mer?
Apr 06 21:18:50 <jeremiah_> wazd: I agree, there are some really smart people here
Apr 06 21:18:51 <zakkm> what if that became open to mer
Apr 06 21:18:52 <wazd> zakkm: the great part bout Mer that it's driven by people, not transgallactic ubercompany :)
Apr 06 21:19:11 <Stskeeps> fact is, maemo has the focus of a throughout tested consumer OS, and to develop a company's agenda - but they play nice and open source 80% of it
Apr 06 21:19:17 <Stskeeps> without those 80%, mer wouldn't be viable
Apr 06 21:19:36 <zakkm> yeah what if 100% was opensource.. which would happen with that switch
Apr 06 21:19:42 <jeremiah_> It is a delicate line to walk, commercial open source.
Apr 06 21:19:42 <zakkm> wouldnt it accelerate progress?
Apr 06 21:20:02 <jeremiah_> zakkm: There are some binary blobs they do not want their competition to look at.
Apr 06 21:20:03 <Stskeeps> then some chinese manufactorer would clone the tablets and drive nokia out of the market with cheap crap? :P
Apr 06 21:20:15 <zakkm> oh
Apr 06 21:20:17 <zakkm> right
Apr 06 21:20:21 * zakkm hits self
Apr 06 21:20:37 <wazd> damn, fresh vista is uber cool
Apr 06 21:20:45 <zakkm> vista?
Apr 06 21:20:46 <Stskeeps> i understand nokia's 80-20% agenda and why it is so :)
Apr 06 21:20:47 <zakkm> no win7?
Apr 06 21:20:48 <jeremiah_> fresh vista?
Apr 06 21:20:49 <wazd> I almost forgot how cool it could be :)
Apr 06 21:21:18 <jeremiah_> ewww, Microsoft.
Apr 06 21:21:19 <wazd> jeremiah_: fresh install I mean
Apr 06 21:21:25 <zakkm> wooo Mac OSX
Apr 06 21:21:34 <zakkm> woo mer * wants to get on stskeeps good side ;p *
Apr 06 21:21:37 <jeremiah_> w00t, debian FTW
Apr 06 21:22:15 <wazd> I can install any OS I want but i'm with Vista :)
Apr 06 21:22:19 <Macer> sorry Stskeeps can't make it today but i'm off tomorrow. i will go once the po opens
Apr 06 21:22:27 <zakkm> wazd: dont like osx?
Apr 06 21:22:27 <Stskeeps> Macer: k
Apr 06 21:22:34 <wazd> zakkm: no
Apr 06 21:22:53 <jeremiah_> Stskeeps: We can talk about some of this stuff later. I would like to chew your ear off about it a bit.
Apr 06 21:23:12 <wazd> zakkm: why should I like it?)
Apr 06 21:23:18 <jeremiah_> Maybe in K'bhavn
Apr 06 21:23:28 <zakkm> visual/ usability aspect?
Apr 06 21:23:43 <jeremiah_> Oh, lack of viruses perhaps?
Apr 06 21:23:50 <wazd> zakkm: no usability or visual pro's against vista for me
Apr 06 21:23:51 <zakkm> who cares of that part
Apr 06 21:23:52 <Stskeeps> jeremiah_: i'm sure we'll have a beer over something in cph :)
Apr 06 21:24:10 <zakkm> you guys all know eachother in person?
Apr 06 21:24:13 <wazd> zakkm: I'm very casual user, so I don't need much
Apr 06 21:24:17 * lcuk had the misfortune to work with vista today
Apr 06 21:24:18 <jeremiah_> Excellent. Talk to you later, it is almost midnight here in sverige.
Apr 06 21:24:22 <Jaffa> zakkm: some of us met at the Maemo Summit 2008 in Berlin
Apr 06 21:24:23 <Stskeeps> zakkm: i've never met a single person from here
Apr 06 21:24:23 * lcuk washed his hands afterwards
Apr 06 21:24:28 <zakkm> wazd : thats why mac is for you :D
Apr 06 21:24:28 <Stskeeps> (.. i think)
Apr 06 21:24:39 <jeremiah_> lcuk: <- a man after my own heart.
Apr 06 21:24:39 <zakkm> wow, how do you guys afford it?
Apr 06 21:24:44 <zakkm> going to berlin for a summit
Apr 06 21:24:52 <jeremiah_> work?
Apr 06 21:24:57 <lcuk> jeremiah_, but i use XP every day - its my most comfortable mousing wm ;)
Apr 06 21:25:00 <zakkm> make enough?
Apr 06 21:25:20 <jeremiah_> lcuk: ewwww, XP.
Apr 06 21:25:25 <Jaffa> zakkm: Nokia sponsored some people; some of us live in Europe
Apr 06 21:25:26 <jeremiah_> zakkm: Are you a student?
Apr 06 21:25:35 <zakkm> Grade 12 High School.
Apr 06 21:25:38 * Jaffa didn't take sponsored travel since it was so cheap to just get on a train
Apr 06 21:25:39 <zakkm> 18 years old
Apr 06 21:25:53 <lcuk> and plane and hike and cycle and hitchhike
Apr 06 21:25:53 <jeremiah_> zakkm: Well, you will one day have a job and be flying to conferences too.
Apr 06 21:26:06 <Jaffa> Stskeeps: ta for the log, I'll use it to do some of the drudge work of priming the sprint tasks
Apr 06 21:26:09 <jeremiah_> zakkm: You are off to a good start, if you hangout here. :)
Apr 06 21:26:17 <zakkm> haha
Apr 06 21:26:20 <Stskeeps> zakkm: heh, i got a hong kong trip to go to a conference and present a paper, for work
Apr 06 21:26:23 <Stskeeps> that was neat
Apr 06 21:26:27 <zakkm> wow
Apr 06 21:26:35 * lcuk has only ever been to 2 conferences
Apr 06 21:26:44 <zakkm> im so far going into real estate agent'ing i know that much. well thinking highly of it
Apr 06 21:26:44 <jeremiah_> Software development is just one junket after the next.
Apr 06 21:26:48 <lcuk> both of them nokia berlin :)
Apr 06 21:26:56 <zakkm> i been to a microsoft technet "keynote" if that counts? :D
Apr 06 21:27:00 <Jaffa> jeremiah_: qole is still unsure of the role of the council and is primarily still exploring it, its relationship to the maemo.org staff/the community and Nokia (and of course the overlap therein)
Apr 06 21:27:01 <zakkm> Vista Beta 2 :P
Apr 06 21:27:15 <zakkm> but i live in Toronto, Canada.. and it was here so it wasnt much
Apr 06 21:27:19 * lcuk smiles
Apr 06 21:27:21 <jeremiah_> Jaffa: There is lots to define there.
Apr 06 21:27:51 <zakkm> is tech hard for you guys? like college/ getting a job and such
Apr 06 21:28:04 <Jaffa> jeremiah_: But Stskeeps makes a good point - in some future circumstance it may be up to the council (after feedback from the community) to go to Nokia and suggest that employee #42 is causing concern.
Apr 06 21:28:30 <Stskeeps> zakkm: after 6 years of comp.sci i'm not entirely sure i like computers as much as i did when i was 10.
Apr 06 21:28:47 <jeremiah_> Jaffa: That is a two way street, Nokia might like to do the same.
Apr 06 21:28:54 * Jaffa *hates* computers - it's just a shame there's nothing I'm better at to occupy my time.
Apr 06 21:28:55 <lcuk> theres a delicate ifne line here - the council needs to actively work to support and communicate - not just with nokia - but the outside world - as practically a fulltime job.  the face of the maemo community.  however as a fulltime job no1 is willing to give it up for a 6 month tenure.
Apr 06 21:28:57 <jeremiah_> Jaffa: And the council may present a problem as well.
Apr 06 21:29:03 <Jaffa> jeremiah_: Indeed on both counts
Apr 06 21:29:29 <jeremiah_> So we all need, as a community, a clear set of roles and responsibilities so there is transparency and accountability
Apr 06 21:29:46 * zakkm didnt like computers at 10.
Apr 06 21:29:46 <jeremiah_> But, and this is where things got off the rails today,
Apr 06 21:29:49 <Jaffa> jeremiah_: Nokia can always ignore the council. And Nokia are perfectly capable of no longer funding a role if they aren't convinced of the benefits
Apr 06 21:30:02 <jeremiah_> Jaffa: True.
Apr 06 21:30:12 <jeremiah_> That might poison the community though.
Apr 06 21:30:15 <jeremiah_> Maybe not.
Apr 06 21:30:17 <Jaffa> Oh, indeed :)
Apr 06 21:30:39 <Jaffa> Which is why it's best left somewhat vague - but with some guidelines - so each individual circumstance can be dealt with (IMHO)
Apr 06 21:30:44 <zakkm> just curious, did they stop doing diablo updates? if fremantle is only for the new tablet, whyd they stop diablo updates? havent seen one since i bought my n800
Apr 06 21:31:03 <jeremiah_> I think the call for who is boss of whom is better left until after we have defined the roles and duties, not before.
Apr 06 21:31:27 <jeremiah_> And perhaps all that should have happened is that words like "policing" and "boss" not have been used
Apr 06 21:31:34 <jeremiah_> and I would not have taken offence
Apr 06 21:31:52 <zakkm> might happen at the next summit :D
Apr 06 21:31:57 <jeremiah_> but I am a free software / community zealot and one of the things I like is not having a boss
Apr 06 21:32:06 <VDVsx> Stskeeps, exactly the same feeling here :)
Apr 06 21:32:09 <jeremiah_> I like to think we work together here.
Apr 06 21:33:19 <jeremiah_> going to bed now
Apr 06 21:33:36 <Stskeeps> nini jeremiah_
Apr 06 21:34:34 <zakkm> night meremiah_
Apr 06 21:34:35 <lcuk> gnite jeremiah_
Apr 06 21:34:40 <zakkm> jeremiah_* sorry
Apr 06 21:34:46 <lcuk> lol
Apr 06 21:35:08 <zakkm> long day at school, half asleep
Apr 06 21:35:25 <Stskeeps> right, my tablet is at brink of disaster
Apr 06 21:35:31 <VDVsx> gnite jeremiah_
Apr 06 21:35:37 <Stskeeps> it is not not properly in sync even where it was in sync before
Apr 06 21:35:45 * VDVsx just installed a ruindows VM in order to develop for the f%c$ing Symbian plataform :(
Apr 06 21:35:45 <Stskeeps> not=now
Apr 06 21:36:01 <zakkm> VDVsx: on osx originally?
Apr 06 21:36:21 <VDVsx> zakkm, nah, Linux
Apr 06 21:36:33 <zakkm> DE/WM?
Apr 06 21:41:36 <Myrtti> wwhhheeeeeaaaahhhh
Apr 06 21:44:48 <Stskeeps> morning Myrtti
Apr 06 21:48:44 <wazd> Myrtti's having morning now?) Oh-my, oh-my :)
Apr 06 21:50:18 <wazd> k, time to get some sleep, c ya, world :)
Apr 06 21:50:22 <Stskeeps> cya wazd
Apr 06 21:53:38 <Macer> i need to make a logo for my zimbra server
Apr 06 21:55:10 <Macer> have to love gimp :)
Apr 06 21:56:13 <RST38h> "It functions as a normal radio until input is added via the keypad. It seems that if a year is entered into the keypad, the radio will receive transmissions from the era (depending on if messages were being broadcast on the set frequency)"
Apr 06 22:03:11 <lardman> evening all
Apr 06 22:03:49 <lcuk> \o
Apr 06 22:04:05 <befr0d> hi
Apr 06 22:05:55 <lardman> am I right in thinking that I've managed to miss the GSoC review stuff?
Apr 06 22:06:41 <lardman> not on purpose I hasten to add
Apr 06 22:07:56 <VDVsx> lardman, you still have some time :)
Apr 06 22:08:01 <lcuk> simon are you a mentor
Apr 06 22:08:04 <lardman> lol, how long?
Apr 06 22:08:19 <lardman> lcuk: yes, I foolishly volunteered
Apr 06 22:08:52 <lcuk> not foolishly :) you have positive experience
Apr 06 22:08:53 <Stskeeps> wtf? date and time controlpanel refuses to let me set time to 00:something
Apr 06 22:09:01 <VDVsx> lardman, until next weekend
Apr 06 22:09:02 <lcuk> 12
Apr 06 22:09:04 <lardman> foolish as I've got lots on though
Apr 06 22:09:07 <lcuk> am/pm only remember
Apr 06 22:09:09 <lcuk> no 24hr
Apr 06 22:09:18 <lardman> VDVsx: ok, I should get a chance to look before then
Apr 06 22:09:20 <lcuk> you shouldnt be alone
Apr 06 22:11:52 <VDVsx> we will know the primary slot number around friday, so we have to assigned mentor to the proposal that we will host before monday
Apr 06 22:13:13 <lardman> np, I thought the deadline was yesterday or thereabouts, I want to at least be able to take a look and give some criticism if needed beforehand
Apr 06 22:13:43 <hellwolf> Is it able to play rmvb file on n810?
Apr 06 22:13:47 <VDVsx> lardman, at least to the barcode proposals :P
Apr 06 22:13:58 <lardman> yeah ;)
Apr 06 22:15:52 * lardman laughs at lyrics of latest Lily Allen song
Apr 06 22:16:46 <tds5016> I've got an n810, but this still seems like it will work...
Apr 06 22:17:00 <tds5016> can someone PLEASE help me get the damned sdp file right?
Apr 06 22:17:01 <tds5016> haha.
Apr 06 22:17:02 <tds5016> http://web.media.mit.edu/~lifton/snippets/n800_to_sl/
Apr 06 22:18:17 <lardman> might be better to email that chap directly, not sure many people here will know how
Apr 06 22:19:17 <lcuk> "Only the owner of a parcel of land in Second Life can determine if media can be streamed to the land and which URLs they are streamed from."
Apr 06 22:19:32 <lcuk> i gather you have checked that aspect of it out
Apr 06 22:22:54 <zakkm> heh
Apr 06 22:22:58 <zakkm> SL ? :p
Apr 06 22:23:04 <zakkm> you guys play
Apr 06 22:23:17 <lcuk> not at all
Apr 06 22:23:27 <lcuk> full of furries and flying penises
Apr 06 22:24:08 <GAN8001> lcuk is a flying penis
Apr 06 22:24:14 <lardman> play, surely that verb would offend a true "second lifer"?! ;)
Apr 06 22:24:31 <tds5016> lcuk: I'm not trying to send it to second life.
Apr 06 22:24:32 <tds5016> hahaha!
Apr 06 22:24:33 <lardman> hey GAN8001
Apr 06 22:24:35 <zakkm> i remember second life in the office
Apr 06 22:24:42 <tds5016> I'm trying to stream from darwin streaming server.
Apr 06 22:24:42 <zakkm> where each of them make a character that looks like them
Apr 06 22:24:42 <GAN8001> Hi, lardman.
Apr 06 22:24:46 <lardman> I only really remember Doom3
Apr 06 22:24:59 <tds5016> I have no IDEA what in the hell to put for some of this stuff in the sdp file.
Apr 06 22:25:00 <tds5016> haha.
Apr 06 22:25:09 <lardman> my office must be far more destructive :)
Apr 06 22:25:50 <lcuk> tds5016, so let me get this straight, you want to recv data from some server out there on the internet and display on your tablet?
Apr 06 22:26:06 <tds5016> no, other way around.
Apr 06 22:26:15 <lcuk> and you are looking at a site to upload a live stream from your tablet to some furry infested game
Apr 06 22:26:27 <tds5016> I believe I'm correctly sending an rtp stream to the server.
Apr 06 22:26:33 <zakkm> hahhh
Apr 06 22:26:37 <tds5016> I want to be able to view what is being captured by the n810
Apr 06 22:26:39 <zakkm> lcuk: lol
Apr 06 22:26:58 <tds5016> lcuk: no.... I don't want second life to be  apart of this at all...
Apr 06 22:26:59 <tds5016> haha.
Apr 06 22:27:21 <tds5016> I want to be able to view the video on n number of client machines.
Apr 06 22:27:28 <tds5016> and then archive the video once the stream is complete.
Apr 06 22:27:40 <zakkm> vlc streaming might work?
Apr 06 22:27:41 <lcuk> tds5016, you say you are correctly sending out the stream
Apr 06 22:27:52 <tds5016> lcuk: as far as I can tell.
Apr 06 22:28:01 <lcuk> doesnt that mean you then have to sit at the other end and work out why its not recving furry photos
Apr 06 22:28:17 <zakkm> vlc has native maemo support doesn it? like they came out with a official maemo port
Apr 06 22:28:20 <tds5016> lcuk: I can't get the stream to be read on the other end, because I can't get the gstreamer pipline to read it correct.
Apr 06 22:28:27 <fireun> tds5016: still havnt worked it out, eh?
Apr 06 22:28:41 <tds5016> fireun: nope. getting semi-frustrated at this point. haha.
Apr 06 22:29:47 <tds5016> lcuk: do you think you can help?
Apr 06 22:29:55 <tds5016> PS this isn't going to second life...
Apr 06 22:29:56 <tds5016> haha.
Apr 06 22:30:19 <zakkm> so where did secondlife come from?
Apr 06 22:30:34 <tds5016> the tutorial is the only thing that deal with second life.
Apr 06 22:30:46 <tds5016> the fact that it has an sdp file up is also something to do iwth it.
Apr 06 22:30:56 <tds5016> the infrastructure is more or less the same as well, I do believe.
Apr 06 22:31:14 <tds5016> I'm sending an rtp stream to the darwin streaming server.
Apr 06 22:31:14 <lcuk> incase you think im joking by the way http://www.metro.co.uk/news/article.html?in_article_id=30420&in_page_id=34
Apr 06 22:31:29 <lcuk> tds5016, ive seen the streaming done only with gtalk
Apr 06 22:31:51 <lcuk> ive heard its possible but cannot actually help
Apr 06 22:32:00 <tds5016> darwin streaming server should be able to use the sdp to read the stream.
Apr 06 22:32:28 <lardman> lcuk: lol
Apr 06 22:32:47 <tds5016> this project is actually going to be used for emergency events... nothing to do with that... so we can not talk about furries...
Apr 06 22:32:49 <tds5016> haha,
Apr 06 22:32:49 <Macer> well.. let's see if this crap works :)
Apr 06 22:32:52 <zakkm> heh
Apr 06 22:33:12 <zakkm> wait wait wait
Apr 06 22:33:26 <zakkm> emergency events, and your relying on a n800/810 camera?
Apr 06 22:33:48 <lardman> ah, that youtube link doesn't work :(
Apr 06 22:34:06 <zakkm> im sure if you played, it wouldnt be hard to see it for real ;p
Apr 06 22:34:22 * lardman is afraid of going to YouTube site and searching for "Pink penis attack"
Apr 06 22:34:28 <lardman> :D
Apr 06 22:34:31 <tds5016> zakkm: as of now it's a a proof of concept.
Apr 06 22:34:49 <zakkm> pointless though, cause i dont see what you gain if it does work
Apr 06 22:34:54 <zakkm> maybe its just me
Apr 06 22:35:14 <lcuk> tds5016, http://snippets.dzone.com/posts/show/6193
Apr 06 22:35:18 <mavhc> secondlife is full of weird sex the same way irc is full of paedophiles, ie only on tv
Apr 06 22:35:18 <lcuk> that looks promising
Apr 06 22:35:19 <zakkm> ah the good game of starcraft
Apr 06 22:35:25 <zakkm> ive been in the same game for over 2 hours
Apr 06 22:35:39 <tds5016> zakkm: as of now it's being used for research.
Apr 06 22:35:53 <tds5016> it's a pretty complex project.... maemo was the easiest to develop for.
Apr 06 22:35:56 <zakkm> wooh vlc :)
Apr 06 22:36:05 <zakkm> but the camera is crap
Apr 06 22:36:07 <zakkm> no offense
Apr 06 22:36:32 <lcuk> camera is a sensor.  you learn to adapt and you do the best you can :)
Apr 06 22:36:33 <zakkm> i guess you can do mer x86 . .and use a normal webcam perhaps but still
Apr 06 22:36:41 <lcuk> just like if you are born with one very snowy eye
Apr 06 22:36:42 <tds5016> lcuk: thanks. What would the sdp file look like for that?
Apr 06 22:37:02 <zakkm> yeah but for emergency situations,  relying on the n800/810 camera.. would you do that lcuk?
Apr 06 22:37:03 <lcuk> i dunno i have never setup gstreamer like that before and dont have linux desktop to play on or anything
Apr 06 22:37:18 <lcuk> if its an emergency id prefer something than nothing
Apr 06 22:37:26 <zakkm> i mean the tablet is good, video chat is nice , it serves its purpose.. but past tabelt stuff i dont see it as good
Apr 06 22:37:47 <tds5016> this isn't in the field.... this is for original development, and for an understanding of how to design a device like it to be functional.
Apr 06 22:37:59 <tds5016> it's being set up as part of a testing platform :-)
Apr 06 22:39:41 <tds5016> lcuk: if that works, I'm gonign to nut myself. thanks lcuk
Apr 06 22:39:57 <lcuk> good luck with your project
Apr 06 22:40:03 <tds5016> thanks!
Apr 06 22:48:49 <lcuk> mental note: do not search google for flying penis attack whilst logged in again
Apr 06 22:49:14 <Macer> hm
Apr 06 22:51:59 <lardman> lol
Apr 06 23:07:39 <Macer> well
Apr 06 23:07:44 <Macer> i hope this zimbra hackery works
Apr 06 23:07:50 <Macer> heh.. then i'll be just about done
Apr 06 23:10:02 <Macer> so far i was able to change the log for the login.. i need to figure out how to change a few more things
Apr 06 23:20:45 <lfelipe> lcuk: the kasparov video ?
Apr 06 23:21:17 <tds5016> http://snippets.dzone.com/posts/show/6193 that is not working... does anyone have any ideas as to why that wouldn't work on an n810?
Apr 06 23:22:20 <tds5016> what sucks is that I know if I don't use h263, and I use h264 this works like a charm.
Apr 06 23:22:52 <tds5016> there doesn't appear to be anything for h264 on the gstreamer port to maemo
Apr 06 23:25:44 <Robot101> tds5016: there's only a decoder for h264, not an encoder
Apr 06 23:26:07 <tds5016> Robot101:  on maemo; I know... that's why I'm using h263.
Apr 06 23:26:16 <Robot101> tds5016: there's not enough CPU power to encode h264
Apr 06 23:26:17 <tds5016> it's soooo frustrating that htat doesn't work.
Apr 06 23:26:28 <Robot101> oh, right
Apr 06 23:26:36 <Robot101> why not use the video call app? :)
Apr 06 23:26:44 <tds5016> is there aynone else with an n810?
Apr 06 23:26:56 <tds5016> Robot101: I'm doing a bit more with the stream other than just streaming.
Apr 06 23:26:57 <tds5016> haha.
Apr 06 23:26:57 <Robot101> the N810 / N800 hw is very, very similar. its probably a software defect rather than anything to do with the hardware
Apr 06 23:27:13 <Robot101> (like, we developed all of the N810 software on N800s)
Apr 06 23:27:32 <tds5016> huh?
Apr 06 23:27:46 <tds5016> oh, gotchya.
Apr 06 23:27:53 <zakkm> the n800/810 are very weak
Apr 06 23:27:55 <tds5016> are you able to get streaming working with that?
Apr 06 23:28:14 <Robot101> well, using our software, yes. never tried to do it with gst-launch.
Apr 06 23:28:19 <Robot101> anyway, gotta sleep
Apr 06 23:28:21 <Robot101> good luck
Apr 06 23:28:40 <tds5016> heh, it'll eventually be wrapped in python.
Apr 06 23:28:54 <Robot101> you can drive telepathy from python too
Apr 06 23:29:02 <Robot101> see call.py in telepathy-python/examples
Apr 06 23:29:31 <tds5016> Robot101:  I need to be able to archive the files.
Apr 06 23:29:36 <tds5016> as well as stream them.
Apr 06 23:29:51 <Robot101> archive them on the N810?
Apr 06 23:29:57 <tds5016> no. on the server.
Apr 06 23:30:06 <tds5016> that they're being sent to.
Apr 06 23:30:14 <Robot101> so just put something together using telepathy-farsight which tees the output to a file
Apr 06 23:30:48 <wjt> Robot101: tpfs notably not in diablo
Apr 06 23:31:18 <tds5016> no, I mean I need to archive the file on the server, not locally.
Apr 06 23:31:24 <Robot101> wjt: yes, the server also not running diablo.
Apr 06 23:31:38 <Robot101> http://git.collabora.co.uk/?p=user/sjoerd/telepathy-python.git;a=blob;f=examples/call.py;h=b09762be34d571a8849a845d612bf75909cd03c3;hb=refs/heads/tpfs
Apr 06 23:31:51 <wjt> Robot101: a fair point, well made.
Apr 06 23:31:57 <Robot101> you can receive/place a call with that using telepathy, and the client built in to the N810
Apr 06 23:32:02 * wjt goes to see the captain.
Apr 06 23:32:08 <Robot101> anyway, I am sleeping now too :)
Apr 06 23:32:15 <tds5016> I'd really prefer to just be able to have this thing streamed with straight gstreamer :-(
Apr 06 23:37:27 <lardman> night all
Apr 07 01:35:11 <Macer> well... just slapped some logos together but i suppose they will do until i can come up with something better :)
Apr 07 01:35:29 <Macer> at least i don't have a giant damn "ZIMBRA" login screen and have it plastered all over the place
Apr 07 02:52:49 <romeus1> hello
Apr 07 02:53:16 <romeus1> I was using the terminal via ssh, I was wondering if there's anyway to recover that session without screen?
Apr 07 02:54:25 <fireun> connection drops = no more session
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Apr 07 02:59:58 2009