**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue May 05 02:59:57 2009 May 05 03:09:29 Is this for development talk? May 05 03:09:54 can somebody help me with easyroot? May 05 03:10:44 i am using maemo on n800 May 05 03:50:41 gr May 05 03:50:42 wtf May 05 04:15:29 /join #mer May 05 04:15:33 woops May 05 04:15:36 opps May 05 04:15:39 sorry :( May 05 04:21:35 hehe May 05 04:22:46 /msg nickserv password ultrasecret May 05 04:28:49 when i type i tend to press space alot, so i accndeitly did it before /join May 05 04:43:19 where are maemo menu items located? May 05 04:45:13 hah, wish I knew where stuff is May 05 04:45:27 gotta get rid of busybox and install the real stuff May 05 04:45:39 the real stuff? May 05 04:45:44 can't even use find -type f -exec May 05 04:45:54 bash2, coreutils May 05 04:46:12 those are in extras repository last i checked May 05 04:46:22 yeah, so? May 05 04:46:42 I just mean... gotta get rid of busybox May 05 04:47:00 what would you gain from that? May 05 04:48:42 sanity May 05 04:48:45 (not saying it's specially challanging) May 05 04:48:50 indeed! May 05 04:48:58 and I think I said that already May 05 04:49:03 can't even use find -type f -exec May 05 04:49:52 there's no locate either May 05 04:50:01 theres a nice "switch to lxde" in my menu that i wnat to install like gnome, and switch that switch to lxde to switch tognome May 05 04:50:14 but having a stripped-down find and not knowing where stuff is ... torture May 05 04:52:38 you guys see the new virtualbox supports opengl 3d in linux guests? May 05 04:53:17 "This NASA imagerecently taken by Mars Rover Spiritshows the 5.9-inch skull of a Martian, with binocular eyes 2 inches apart, 1400 cc cranial capacity, and "most likely a carnivore." May 05 04:53:20 Hehe May 05 04:53:59 url?;p May 05 04:55:40 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/scienceandtechnology/science/sciencenews/5255394/Alien-skull-spotted-on-Mars.html May 05 04:56:17 zakkm, which would e.g. answer your question (in time, but it would) with something like find / -type f -exec grep -il 'switch to lxde" + May 05 04:56:30 (supposing it's a newish gnu find) May 05 04:57:46 RST38h, http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/michael_shermer_on_believing_strange_things.html May 05 04:58:52 * RST38h does not need to know why in this case :) May 05 04:58:57 I love the part where he plays the satanic message without lyrics first and you understand "warble warble satan warble warble" May 05 04:59:15 Yessss May 05 04:59:19 RST38h, it's a cool talk... watch it if you got time :) May 05 04:59:36 stskeeps: hows the smartq? May 05 05:00:10 zakkm: so far so good - need tool to create firmware img though May 05 05:00:22 fast? May 05 05:00:31 is it faster than the nokia? May 05 05:00:32 system is open, already rootable May 05 05:00:44 533mhz vs 400mhz May 05 05:00:52 i saw 667 May 05 05:00:57 on some info about it May 05 05:01:17 yeah, not sure where it came from May 05 05:01:22 but is it a better omap chip and stuff? May 05 05:01:30 its samsung May 05 05:01:33 RST38h, the talk also actually mentions the face that viking 1 saw 1976 May 05 05:01:49 armv6 vfp and it claims armv7 May 05 05:01:49 yeah does it perform better though? May 05 05:02:12 im thinking of selling my nokia n800 and buying the smartq, could still follow mer the same that way hah :P May 05 05:02:19 heck knows. when i get mer on i'll tell you May 05 05:02:21 and the smartq form factor iss better in my opinion May 05 05:02:39 dpad not there is friggen annoying May 05 05:02:52 crap speaker May 05 05:03:22 i dont use dpad unless playin vgba, yeah speakers important i guess May 05 05:03:38 the form factor is so cool in that though May 05 05:04:11 its also much lighter than my tablet May 05 05:04:19 CutMe: Oh, the 1976 face is an old story :) May 05 05:04:36 obviously, being from 1976 May 05 05:04:40 it actually looks like a face, under some angles, so there are legions of loonies going for it May 05 05:05:08 actually not... looks like a face at low-res, as the guy demonstrates in the talk May 05 05:05:13 stskeeps: does that thing have opengl drivers? May 05 05:05:26 not in the fs May 05 05:05:31 (taking a high-res picture and pixelizing it down to low-res) May 05 05:05:46 fs? May 05 05:05:58 rootfs May 05 05:06:26 ah May 05 05:06:34 heh i want one May 05 05:08:45 Well the loonies prefer the low res picture :) May 05 05:09:37 Sts" You should actually thank those nameless chinese guys that they have given you real side buttons May 05 05:10:08 Sts: The one I worked on had touch sensors on the side and had to be handled like a freaking grenade ) May 05 05:14:53 hehe May 05 05:15:26 ebook reading can be compared to 770 May 05 05:15:27 Is the top surface made of glass though? May 05 05:15:35 not sure May 05 05:15:54 I mean can you press on it without being afraid of breaking it like the NIT? May 05 05:16:06 feels like it May 05 05:16:58 then on-screel dpad should more or less do the job... May 05 05:17:03 on-screen May 05 05:17:54 i need help with airhack May 05 05:18:11 but the os is neat but not stylus friendly May 05 05:18:42 just curious, do you think nokia will come out with one past 43-7? May 05 05:18:45 you dont get away with a desktop env on this one May 05 05:19:04 zakkm: only to enable community stuff if so May 05 05:19:45 i like maemo but as soon as i got my n800, 43-7 sort of came out, and its been ages since then so im wondering if they are just going to go straight from 43-7 to maemo 5 May 05 05:20:13 is anyone going to use that qt animation framework , or was that just a proof of concept? May 05 05:20:16 well yes, but not for n8x0 May 05 05:20:33 so you think 43-7 will be the last update? May 05 05:20:42 is* May 05 05:21:01 yeah May 05 05:21:19 thats pretty much how it looks May 05 05:22:36 that sucks May 05 05:23:14 i like the fremantle theme, it looks so cool :D May 05 05:23:33 reason why its good to have a os in community hands May 05 05:24:13 mer is much different than maemo though May 05 05:24:48 yeah - intentionally May 05 05:24:59 imagine May 05 05:25:10 i like that qt animation framework video ;p May 05 05:25:23 that would be sick to make a ui out of :D May 05 05:25:37 wouldnt it? May 05 05:25:49 marketings face if their million dollar ui is on some chinese mid before their own release.. May 05 05:26:18 that could pose a problem May 05 05:26:25 and fremantle is a different ui than mer May 05 05:26:25 for who? ;p May 05 05:26:31 mer mainly May 05 05:26:54 last i checked doesnt nokia support mer? May 05 05:26:54 luke-jr, people who enjoy Nokia's participation in open source software ;) May 05 05:27:24 if mer ends up on some chinese mid before the n900, and marketing gets mad. that could affect mer couldnt it May 05 05:27:32 lack of support and such by nokia May 05 05:27:43 zakkm, well they support Mer to some extent May 05 05:27:54 yeah but im saying, it will do more bad than good May 05 05:27:59 Stskeeps: marketings face if their million dollar ui is on some chinese mid before their own release.. May 05 05:28:10 and if Mer ends up on some chinese MID before the N900 is out I don't think it will be nearly as big a deal as if Maemo 5 ends up on some Chinese MID :) May 05 05:28:13 that would cause more bad than good May 05 05:28:19 mer is mostly diablo derived, so what is the problem if it ends up on a chinese mid? May 05 05:28:39 it becomes a competition? May 05 05:28:41 RST38h, When's the last time you looked at our software versions? ;) May 05 05:28:45 RST38h, exactly. if we took the new hd though. May 05 05:28:56 johnx: about a week ago May 05 05:28:56 hd? May 05 05:29:00 if the Chinese can do better than Nokia, then who needs Nokia? ;) May 05 05:29:10 johnx: but it still looked like diablo pretty much May 05 05:29:11 i want that smartq5 ! :P May 05 05:29:12 same desktop May 05 05:29:12 we are mostly post-diablo sources May 05 05:29:21 zakkm: no keyboard afaik May 05 05:29:26 diablo is older May 05 05:29:29 no keyboard? May 05 05:29:30 512 MB RAM *is* nice tho May 05 05:29:30 RST38h, yeah, well, h-d is just about the last Diablo hold-over May 05 05:29:34 i have a n800, dont have one anyways May 05 05:29:37 heh May 05 05:29:48 RST38h, not same ver as diablo one - fremanntle api one May 05 05:29:52 johnx: but it is the only thing the user sees anyway May 05 05:30:26 rest is mostly fremantle src May 05 05:30:27 i still think it needs some animation-like UI .. the tablet May 05 05:30:46 like liqbase or something but much more .. system-wide or something May 05 05:31:22 my N810 is building glibc 2.8 ;) May 05 05:31:22 RST38h, yeah. so for purposes of this hypothetical "Chinese PMP" situation, H-D is the only thing that matters. From a programmers point of view it's mostly Fremantle though May 05 05:31:54 luke-jr, why so old? May 05 05:31:59 johnx: old? May 05 05:32:05 not 2.9? May 05 05:32:07 what if it hates it, and stops being so opensourced, like the tablet and fremantle May 05 05:32:36 johnx: 2.8 just went stable for Gentoo ARM May 05 05:32:55 what exactly is hildon-desktop? is it the window manager? May 05 05:33:01 is Mer working with 2.9? O.o May 05 05:33:16 luke-jr, of course May 05 05:33:50 zakkm, hildon-desktop is the side and top bar, and when we talk about it we usually are referring to the whole desktop, which includes matchbox window manager May 05 05:34:11 why doesnt mer do that anyways May 05 05:34:24 that way its a clone of like maemo.. and just update like that May 05 05:34:51 " why doesnt mer do that anyways" Sorry, but what do you mean by "do that"? May 05 05:35:03 have maemo look May 05 05:35:12 the old maemo look? May 05 05:35:18 yeah May 05 05:35:22 the old mer i suppose May 05 05:35:32 we were for a while, but we like the new look May 05 05:35:51 it frees up more space for status bar applets, more space for apps and keeps the same functionality May 05 05:36:17 without too much work you could probably make a set of packages that emulated the old look May 05 05:36:36 that would be cool to add in installer :P May 05 05:36:43 "new look" or "old" May 05 05:36:55 definitely. send us the patch :D May 05 05:37:06 yeahh i been meaing to ask May 05 05:37:11 where would i find the script May 05 05:37:38 the "install mer" one May 05 05:38:01 in the merinstaller package :) May 05 05:38:04 it's just an sh script May 05 05:38:11 yeah i was hoping it was a .sh May 05 05:38:19 or here: https://code.launchpad.net/~mer-committers/m-r/merinstaller May 05 05:39:06 no download button? :( May 05 05:39:11 bzr only? May 05 05:39:35 oh there May 05 05:40:34 johnx: wheres the .sh ? May 05 05:40:40 n 1 here can help me with aircrack? May 05 05:40:42 merinstaller under libexec May 05 05:41:08 Valois, I don't think many people here use it May 05 05:41:19 Valois, have you checked the threads on ITT? May 05 05:42:10 johnx: if i were to get whole bzr branch.. edit the sh .. copy to nokia, could i compile on nokia and make a deb package? May 05 05:42:43 it's pretty hard to make a deb package on the tablet under Maemo, but it's definitely possible under Mer May 05 05:42:53 i have mer x86 ? May 05 05:43:01 on virtualbox May 05 05:43:04 you could use that too, or ubuntu May 05 05:43:21 it will work okay in virtual machine? May 05 05:43:44 yeah, I believe so. No need to compile in this case as it's all just sh scripts May 05 05:43:59 just dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot May 05 05:46:12 whats the .sh for post-install ? May 05 05:46:17 is there any? May 05 05:46:29 or is that stuck inside the mer rootfs/ May 05 05:46:43 you mean the thing you see when you first boot Mer? May 05 05:47:03 i was planning to add extra packages to install May 05 05:47:24 like mer installs, and then it automatically apt-get's and gets stuff May 05 05:47:24 packages that would be installed in Mer or in Maemo? May 05 05:47:29 mer May 05 05:47:34 i guess i could add chroot to the script? May 05 05:47:40 and then apt-get -y May 05 05:47:41 you probably want to make a new fs image ... May 05 05:48:11 that would get complicated though, cause as mer updates, so would the new fs image of mine May 05 05:48:11 easier to do it once and not have to worry about it May 05 05:48:30 if its done in merinstaller script, mer can update.. and still have same script for install May 05 05:48:37 ah, well, then you could add it to "first-boot-wizard" May 05 05:48:50 does it change often? May 05 05:49:12 i guess i could do it and evantually propose it into the actual mer fs May 05 05:49:49 zakkm, interesting that you ask that. I plan to change it soon, but that change should make it possible to add new "steps" to the "wizard" just by adding your own script May 05 05:50:10 like when you boot mer/ mer almost done installing there would be a GUI for like.. "Gnome" "XFCE "hildon" and such and then it apt-get's accordingly, and then again for like specific choices of default web browser/additional ones May 05 05:50:42 hmm...really best off doing that with a different image for that big of a change May 05 05:50:50 I assume you don't want the hildon libs at all May 05 05:50:55 actually could it be possible to chroot from merinstaller script, and then wget a "firstbootwizard .sh" and replace it ? May 05 05:51:14 that would keep the main image lower filesize i would think May 05 05:51:17 and still let them have what they want May 05 05:51:25 SD cards to consider May 05 05:51:26 yeah, technically, but if you want to integrate with Mer at some point, that's not the way to do it May 05 05:51:56 well it would get changed at that point i would think , iwas just thinking for testing May 05 05:52:20 is the rootfs just tar of / ? May 05 05:52:25 yup May 05 05:52:26 the rootfs file May 05 05:52:53 ah then that could work , that would be cool eh? May 05 05:52:55 in some cases, some packages might not install too well from a chroot though May 05 05:53:04 give it a test though May 05 05:53:17 you think that seems nice though? if it does 100% succeed and work? May 05 05:53:24 like a good idea? May 05 05:53:40 hmm? to chroot during the installer? May 05 05:53:43 no May 05 05:53:57 having a menu of DE/WM choices.. and apt-gets accordingly + software default/install choices May 05 05:54:35 [johnx]: sorry the delay, what is ITT? May 05 05:54:40 ~itt May 05 05:54:41 extra, extra, read all about it, itt is the forums on internettablettalk.com ( http://internettablettalk.com/forums ) May 05 05:55:02 zakkm, thinking about that. gimme a sec May 05 05:55:19 Valois, there's a couple threads on aircrack there, but I don't think anyone got it working 100% May 05 05:55:50 its a web forum? May 05 05:55:53 the maemo driver doesnt support packet injection, so it makes it takee impossible times to "crack" May 05 05:55:53 yes May 05 05:56:04 Valois, it would go too slow, its not worth it May 05 05:56:21 the nokia's battery would die, before you get the password May 05 05:56:39 but couldnt i inject from pc May 05 05:56:43 the data? May 05 05:56:58 could do it all on pc then? idkk im just saying what i know of aircrack on maemo/tablet May 05 05:57:22 it works, can install , runs fine May 05 05:57:27 but no packet injection May 05 05:57:35 hmm May 05 05:57:38 zakkm, so have this menu be part of merinstaller or part of first-boot-wizard? May 05 05:57:48 thank you May 05 05:58:10 for the purpose of disk space i would think merinstaller, but it seems better off/easier as part of first-boot-wizard May 05 05:58:27 like if its in installer, you have maemos wifi on, etc etc that it "cant" fail May 05 05:58:33 the problem with first-boot-wizard is right now there's no network access yet when f-b-w is running May 05 05:58:36 if its in first-boot-wizard, network isnt started yet May 05 05:59:04 also if they dont want hildon.. first-boot-wizard requires hildon doesnt it? May 05 05:59:27 i dont know much about mer, but first-boot-wizard seemed gtk/ hildon-dependent May 05 05:59:34 zakkm, right now the package depends on hildon, but the script doesn't. May 05 05:59:43 it would be happy with normal gtk May 05 06:00:05 I think having merinstaller give you a choice of images to download/install would be easiest May 05 06:00:24 but it would be hard to maintain May 05 06:00:36 i mean one mer update to 0.14 lets say, that might require 14 images? May 05 06:00:36 not really. we just make a new imager script and run it on every release May 05 06:01:17 the script runs 14 times, 14 images come out the other end. if the script fails to generate an image, then it would have failed to install on the tablet as well May 05 06:01:51 yeah i realize the failing part but i mean .. hosting 14 images, if one person wants to change one simple thing thats a whole new image May 05 06:02:03 but, actually, if you can modify merinstaller so it works nicely and doesn't impact the actual mer install or make it harder to maintain, then sure, go for it May 05 06:02:08 while my main idea was to apt-get.. which would be alot less download size/time and less bandwidth May 05 06:02:20 than redownloading a whole image May 05 06:02:24 and that would require replacing / May 05 06:02:53 if you don't want hildon, you need to at least make one base image though without it May 05 06:03:16 i do want hildon, i just meant hildon as a choice.. to make it "default" May 05 06:03:21 like always have hildon May 05 06:03:26 otherwise theres no keyboard or anything? May 05 06:03:44 no hildon = no onscreen keyboard May 05 06:03:53 you'd need to supply another one May 05 06:03:54 but if you choose gnome over hildon.. its not hildon doesnt get installed its just its not default WM/DE.. gnome is May 05 06:04:06 ah, but hildon is a lot of libraries May 05 06:04:27 right now in mer we have a different gtk than ubuntu uses that has special support for hildon May 05 06:04:46 is it the same as maemo, just curious May 05 06:04:52 the patched gtk May 05 06:04:55 same as fremantle May 05 06:04:56 yeah May 05 06:05:07 so *right now* you can't exactly have hildon-desktop installed at the same time as gnome-desktop in mer May 05 06:05:22 you cant? May 05 06:05:27 that's correct May 05 06:05:35 i got fvwm-crystal going in my mer x86 ? May 05 06:05:39 i just changed xinitrc May 05 06:05:52 fvwm-crystal != gnome-desktop :) May 05 06:06:00 is it just gnome? May 05 06:06:11 kde + hildon is ok. lxde + hildon is probably ok May 05 06:06:28 it's just gnome. gnome wants a different version of gtk than we have May 05 06:06:32 oh May 05 06:06:37 okay so not gnome May 05 06:06:40 :( May 05 06:06:50 well, you don't want gnome anyways :) May 05 06:06:52 or not during beginning anyways May 05 06:06:57 baby steps May 05 06:07:16 first, get 512MB of RAM soldered in, then worry about installing gnome ;) May 05 06:07:22 yeah that too May 05 06:07:30 i dont know, people said it runs quite fine actually May 05 06:07:38 i dont believe it , but some people here swear by it May 05 06:07:57 some people here play chess by mail as well :) May 05 06:08:01 GNOME *never* runs fine.. May 05 06:08:10 lxde was too slow for me May 05 06:08:13 performance wise May 05 06:08:47 KDE would be usable were Plasma not a memory hug May 05 06:08:50 hog* May 05 06:08:57 fluxbox, fvwm, openbox, ratpoison, .. im guessing are the choices? :) May 05 06:09:30 zakkm, wmaker :) May 05 06:09:31 even for software though May 05 06:09:42 xfce and lxde are usable to some degree May 05 06:09:44 didnt penguinbait do wmaker for maemo? May 05 06:09:53 a long time ago May 05 06:09:59 not that wmaker changes much these days :/ May 05 06:12:22 even software installer though, like "simple software installer" May 05 06:12:22 i guess application manager is good though so idk May 05 06:12:23 choices could be a good thing though May 05 06:12:29 yeah, that's what I ran into too in deblet May 05 06:12:43 ratpoison should be rather crappy on something that mostly relies on "mouse" May 05 06:12:54 it was a joke ;p May 05 06:12:57 well, I like having access to desktop apps, but a lot of the good apps were really for maemo May 05 06:13:30 zakkm, well, ratpoison would kind of rule because it always goes to fullscreen May 05 06:13:48 i havent seen ratpoison in years May 05 06:14:08 it doesn't suit me for sure May 05 06:14:18 johnx: was thinking e17 would be a good choice, neatojones was doing it anyways with e17 debs May 05 06:14:31 could be interesting May 05 06:14:41 doesn't seem to finger friendly, but that could change May 05 06:14:41 aewm++? :) May 05 06:14:41 that would be easily implemented, with his permission but i dont know why he wouldnt approve May 05 06:14:49 e17 would be nice if it was friggen done.. May 05 06:14:49 :P May 05 06:14:58 johnx: e17 has some alternate choices .. not the same as desktop one May 05 06:15:10 lol May 05 06:15:15 Stskeeps: forever beta? May 05 06:15:20 forever svn May 05 06:15:20 just downloaded the newest elive disc :D May 05 06:15:21 zakkm, I know. I played with it a bit. May 05 06:15:32 virtualbox doesnt like it :( May 05 06:15:35 Stskeeps, that's how enlightenment works :) May 05 06:15:42 new virtualbox supports compiz/ecomorph May 05 06:15:52 really? craziness May 05 06:16:15 opengl 3d acceleration May 05 06:16:46 anyways, stskeeps did you listen to my idea for mer? May 05 06:17:08 if you repeat it, i might May 05 06:17:13 hah May 05 06:17:45 in mer installer script // first boot wizard... having a menu saying "Gnome, hildon, xfce, e17" and lets you select one. .and whichever you click.. the choice would be apt-get -y'd May 05 06:17:56 and add to xinitrc May 05 06:18:00 yeah, except wifi is not loaded at that point May 05 06:18:38 i know it has flaws lol May 05 06:18:38 but the idea of giving the user choices May 05 06:18:38 my idea is to have a control panel "Desktop environments", where in AM you can install "xfce-env" and such May 05 06:18:38 yeah May 05 06:18:38 and in powerlaunch menu you can have "Switch to LXDE" or "Switch to Hildon" May 05 06:18:38 i was going to say possibly a app in the menu May 05 06:18:55 :( May 05 06:22:56 heh, compiz May 05 06:23:06 ? May 05 06:23:24 ops... May 05 06:23:34 you already had that May 05 06:24:21 but why not... think the processor is too slow for compiz? May 05 06:25:01 yes. and not enough RAM, and no hardware GL, also, not enough screen space to make it worthwhile May 05 06:25:02 your goal is to have no battery after 10 minutes or 5? May 05 06:25:11 but other than that, yeah sounds good May 05 06:25:17 yeah :) May 05 06:25:51 tiny little problems :-P May 05 06:26:53 10! :D May 05 06:28:59 battery life of 10 minutes should be worthwhile the eye-candy! May 05 06:29:23 putting that kind of draw on the battery might be a fire hazard May 05 06:29:35 hehe May 05 06:29:52 fwiw, the device in standard config is supposed to kill itself if it thinks it's overheating May 05 06:30:06 however if you go about voiding the warrantee, i will not care if it burns you May 05 06:30:19 heh, unless we're running a modified bme? May 05 06:30:31 kill itself as in "switch off" or as in "explode"? May 05 06:30:36 e.g. if you do something like that May 05 06:30:42 CutMeOwnThroat: yes May 05 06:30:42 LOL May 05 06:30:49 I see May 05 06:30:58 CutMeOwnThroat: note that asking a boolean logic question is stupid May 05 06:31:05 the answer on average will be 'yes' May 05 06:31:20 can it overhead? May 05 06:31:24 overheat* May 05 06:31:36 my N810 can get pretty hot, but it's never killed itself May 05 06:31:41 well... you answer it with something like as in "explode"!!!!!!11123 May 05 06:31:42 luke-jr: i don't think it can fly or project in default configurations May 05 06:31:50 but there is a video out adapter May 05 06:31:54 O.o May 05 06:32:12 there is? May 05 06:32:22 is someone equipping their N810 with wings? May 05 06:32:28 i think i've actually seen protos where the software was a bit overcautious and decided it had overheated and killed itself May 05 06:32:38 (it wasn't hot, the calibration or software was just confused) May 05 06:33:01 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overhead_projector May 05 06:33:10 mine is very hot right now May 05 06:33:23 if it were any hotter, it'd burn me May 05 06:33:27 http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=fly+overhead May 05 06:33:49 that's not what I'd call "video out" May 05 06:35:01 uh, I don't think mine ever got hot yet May 05 06:35:20 but then I've never tried to compile gentoo on it May 05 06:37:06 LOL May 05 06:37:20 how's it going, btw May 05 06:37:33 last I remember was May 05 06:37:45 CutMeOwnThroat: like I said, I'm 82% doen w/ kdelibs May 05 06:38:02 CutMeOwnThroat: eh, it's upgrading glibc now May 05 06:38:13 endless fun, indeed May 05 06:38:50 what advantage would gentoo have? May 05 06:39:41 can you take advantage of processor-specific optimizations? May 05 06:39:45 CutMeOwnThroat: flexibility May 05 06:39:47 that too May 05 06:39:50 not sure how much it helps May 05 06:40:02 but maemo would definitely have that, too May 05 06:40:15 maybe May 05 06:40:50 debian/ubuntu not, though May 05 06:41:24 I just got my old Zaurus booted May 05 06:41:51 how does it perform compared to a desktop x86 processor, btw? May 05 06:41:56 eh? May 05 06:42:19 CutMeOwnThroat, think 350MHz K6 or so May 05 06:42:23 not a K6-2 May 05 06:43:09 johnx: eh? May 05 06:43:16 ARM should be faster than x86, not slower May 05 06:43:39 luke-jr, really? how's the FPU? May 05 06:44:02 how get all permission root in emelfm2? May 05 06:44:09 it's risc... shouldnt that use more commands/task, i.e. be slower? May 05 06:44:24 hmm May 05 06:44:40 although suns ... May 05 06:45:22 johnx: ? May 05 06:45:37 CutMeOwnThroat: more instructions run per cycle ;) May 05 06:45:57 ok May 05 06:46:03 luke-jr, how's the vfp vs an x86 fpu? May 05 06:46:08 no idea May 05 06:46:30 hint: it's not very fast May 05 06:46:51 anyway, sun sparcs used to be faster if on the same rate May 05 06:49:02 hm, I see May 05 06:49:17 hum May 05 06:49:17 andre__: ping May 05 06:49:22 Zaurus only has 64 MB RAM :x May 05 06:49:25 andre__: can you confirm https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=563546 May 05 06:49:34 I better not try to run KDE 4 on it May 05 06:50:34 probably no big wonder than that it had problems playing fast movement of a 688x384 film :) May 05 06:51:49 huh May 05 06:52:01 <.< May 05 06:52:04 unable to connect via usb memory card in use... remove memory card May 05 06:53:14 how get all permission root in emelfm2? May 05 06:54:29 CutMeOwnThroat: what about 688x384 film? btw, FPU is not needed for decoding video May 05 06:55:30 ssvb, not much... mplayer showed stills when there was a lot of motion May 05 06:57:08 CutMeOwnThroat: mplayer is well optimized for x86, this is not the case for ARMv6, additionally memory throughput does matter a lot and memory is not so fast in N800 May 05 06:57:36 the default player didn't play it, though May 05 06:58:03 i think 688x384 is a tad much for a n8x0 May 05 06:58:36 still mplayer would gain a noticeable performance improvement if optimized more May 05 06:58:54 it's optimized to hell... May 05 06:58:58 on x86 :) May 05 06:58:59 it does not use HW up to its limit May 05 06:59:10 ssvb: well, have fun with doing so :) May 05 06:59:16 we'll be grateful May 05 07:00:10 aquatix: had fun, not anymore :) May 05 07:00:13 hm May 05 07:00:49 mplayer seems to use floating point units if available for decoding, though May 05 07:01:08 and contrary to popular belief, LCD controller is not at fault for video playback slowness May 05 07:01:46 ssvb: you gave up or something? May 05 07:02:08 ssvb, think I could talk you into writing up a general overview of why playback is slow and where people might be able to help? May 05 07:02:09 CutMeOwnThroat: floating point is used for audio decoding, not for video May 05 07:02:20 yeah May 05 07:02:45 I know... there seem to be lots of discussions on audio decoding performance May 05 07:02:57 still looking for video ones May 05 07:02:58 It's sort of a voodoo magic thing to most people and I think it would help the issue a lot if people knew what was actually going on. May 05 07:04:06 hm, might try different output modules of mplayer May 05 07:04:41 GAN800: mplayer/ffmpeg has a number of functions that have optimized variants for different processors, ARMv6 support is not so good May 05 07:04:55 At some stage I had to kill the media player, and since then it doesnt see any media thats on my removable SD card. When I open the media player it says 'refreshing library', but nothing ever happens.. and the CPU looks like its not doing anything at all. Does anyone know how I can fix this? May 05 07:05:21 GAN800: iDCT can be improved a lot, also motion compensation can benefit from ARMv6 May 05 07:05:32 usicow: you probably whacked meta-crawler May 05 07:08:12 GAN800: LCD bandwidth is good enough for any video with a resolution up to 800x480, CPU chokes much earlier May 05 07:09:04 guess mplayer -vo sdl won't do much good :) May 05 07:09:11 GAN800: LCD bandwidth was a serious problem for old versions of firmware, but not anymore May 05 07:10:08 CutMeOwnThroat: yes, because SDL will try to do YUV->RGB conversion on ARM core, also its scaler is not optimized well May 05 07:10:13 if it's not too complicated, could you say what what changed? May 05 07:12:49 johnx: bugs fixed :) HW is capable of providing 27.5 fps of tear-free 800x480 rgb screen updates, for yuv it's even better because yuv uses 12 bits per pixel and not 16, so it can do more than 30 fps May 05 07:13:51 johnx: and LCD bandwidth depends on CPU speed too, it is fastest when CPU is running at 400MHz (the numbers above are for running at 400MHz) May 05 07:14:47 johnx: with very old revisions of firmware, CPU was running at 330MHz and it was a problem for graphics too May 05 07:15:09 also, the default media player switched to 330 to put the DSP at top speed for mp3 decoding, yes? May 05 07:15:35 yes, it's a problem of the default media player May 05 07:15:39 timeless_mbp: I have run meta-crawler from a terminal window and it just ran and ended in liek 1 second without any output.. is that what it should do? May 05 07:16:27 :( arora crashes alot May 05 07:16:32 usicow, have you tried restarting metalayer crawler from /etc/init.d or just rebooting? May 05 07:16:38 there's -vo omapfb "nokia 770 video driver" May 05 07:16:51 usicow: *shrug*, i don't deal w/ meta-crawler May 05 07:16:55 ime it's just pain :) May 05 07:17:51 Hi, one question for virtual keyboard. May 05 07:18:33 the virtual keyboard is not programmed to answer questions May 05 07:18:35 johnx: still it is not very good that DVFS is not taking graphics activity into account, for example a test application which only pushes updates to screen and does not load cpu much will have pretty bad tearing (cpu will go down to 165MHz, graphics bus is tied to cpu clock speed with some multiplier and as a result screen updates will be extremely slow) May 05 07:18:48 nor would something named "keyboard" that was "virtual" be programmed to answer questions May 05 07:18:59 I notice that when the Virtual keyboard is launched, the application window will be automatically resized, so that vkb and app window do not overlap each other May 05 07:19:07 timeless_mbp: :) May 05 07:19:30 timeless_mbp, was that funded by Nokia? May 05 07:19:34 johnx: I have tried that.. but just to be sure I just stopped and started /etc/init.d/meta-crawler0 but still the same problem. Do you think its logging some error somewhere? May 05 07:19:41 johnx: forcing cpu to the highest clock frequency helps, that's one of the things that liqbase is doing afaik May 05 07:19:49 crashanddie: Artificial Intelligence to answer Interview questions? May 05 07:20:01 i doubt it, we don't have enough intelligence for normal people to answer such questions May 05 07:20:11 but I search through HIM's code , do not find anything related to this feature. Anyone can throw a light on me? May 05 07:20:18 usicow, probably not. I would look in the metalayer startup script and see if you can figure out a way to run it from the terminal and have it display errors. Sorry, but I don't have much experience with metalayer-crawler... May 05 07:20:23 RaymondL_: would a lit match do? May 05 07:20:28 timeless, "mbp", did Nokia fund that? May 05 07:20:34 crashanddie: yes :) May 05 07:20:36 ok May 05 07:20:36 :) May 05 07:20:38 RaymondL_, it's a matchbox window manager feature May 05 07:20:41 CutMeOwnThroat: yes, this driver has the lowest overhead, uses hardware YUV->RGB conversion and scaling May 05 07:20:44 or would you prefer a molotov cocktail? May 05 07:21:08 doesn't seem to do a lot better than xv on my sample, though May 05 07:21:09 johnx: oh, really :) so what is this feature call ? May 05 07:21:11 timeless, I asked my company to buy me a Mac, the CFO told me "Bad joke seriously dude" May 05 07:21:14 CutMeOwnThroat: XV is also quite good if colorkey is explicitly disabled May 05 07:21:19 (I didn't know he was in the room) May 05 07:21:29 RaymondL_, it's called, pay special attention to a certain window and don't let it overlap the other one :) May 05 07:21:33 crashanddie: we have a 3 layer approval process for macs these days May 05 07:21:38 i have a powerful manager :) May 05 07:21:43 timeless, at least you have an approval process May 05 07:21:44 it came w/in days May 05 07:21:44 bastard May 05 07:21:59 whereas, it took me a couple of months to get a certain other item May 05 07:22:15 I'm still trying to justify the acquisition of a 1TB hard drive May 05 07:22:31 johnx, ok, this nick name is cool. so it's some kind of wm hint? May 05 07:22:32 "But, I ran out of space... I have 600Gig worth of VMs ffs" May 05 07:22:39 "What is the business requirement for your purchase?" May 05 07:22:43 CutMeOwnThroat: cpu is the bottleneck for your sample, even zero overhead graphics output would not help it much May 05 07:22:44 RaymondL_, matchbox window manager is a full screen window manager. I'm pretty sure the keyboard window is classified as a "dock" (like the panels) and so it won't overlap the application window May 05 07:23:14 hehe May 05 07:23:15 RaymondL_, I would interrogate with keyboard window with some X11 tools and see what it's properties are May 05 07:23:37 funny, -hardframedrop doesn't help, but creates loads of jpeg artifacts May 05 07:23:56 crashanddie: working virtualization and reliable hardware :) May 05 07:23:58 is this someone trying to play HD content again? May 05 07:23:59 and speed May 05 07:24:08 because the windows laptops have to have full disk encryption May 05 07:24:38 timeless_mbp, dude we're going to have to talk May 05 07:24:46 johnx, I see. so without except than matchbox wm, other wm say metacity have similar feature? May 05 07:24:57 the mac laptops are only required to use File Vault for Nokia confidential stuff May 05 07:25:01 CutMeOwnThroat: you can try halfresolution decoding, '-lavdopts lowres=1', also if you are running mplayer from console, be sure to use -quiet option May 05 07:25:12 s/without except/except/ May 05 07:25:12 RaymondL_ meant: johnx, I see. so except than matchbox wm, other wm say metacity have similar feature? May 05 07:25:20 timeless_mbp, hmm, I'm afraid for us that's going to be a bit more sensitive... May 05 07:25:31 more sensitive than nokia confidential? May 05 07:25:31 :P May 05 07:25:34 that's unpossible May 05 07:25:34 :P May 05 07:25:34 infobot: right May 05 07:25:35 blah blah blah/spam spam spam/yaddayaddayaddayadda sis boom bam May 05 07:26:33 RaymondL_, metacity will treat the hildon keyboard pretty differently. If I recall, I don't think it handles it very elegantly. this goes for several other window managers. sawfish can be made to work with it to some degree with a bit of configuration work May 05 07:27:20 CutMeOwnThroat: in a somewhat artificial setup, N800 is capable of decoding 480p big buck bunny video in realtime (but without sound) :) May 05 07:27:34 RaymondL_: fwiw the behavior is actually awful May 05 07:27:34 ssvb, right, that helps, albeit making things fuzzy and w some jpeg artifacts as well... May 05 07:27:36 hehe May 05 07:27:38 so please don't choose to emulate it May 05 07:27:49 it results in all sorts of problems for web browsers May 05 07:27:58 johnx, OK, so there is no common way to perform this dock task right? sounds bad. May 05 07:28:03 timeless_mbp, that the window is resized? May 05 07:28:05 yes May 05 07:28:07 timeless_mbp: awful? May 05 07:28:18 which causes the web page to consider self destructing May 05 07:28:27 because it heard about the window size change May 05 07:28:39 and because there was a feature in n4 where resizes did something strange May 05 07:28:41 Stskeeps, www.actividentity.com ;) May 05 07:28:44 so pages would intentionally reload May 05 07:28:46 crashanddie: ah :P May 05 07:28:46 shit, forgot to notice that May 05 07:28:47 oh May 05 07:28:53 and if you reload the page May 05 07:28:59 you typically lose focus from the input field May 05 07:29:02 crashanddie: goatse.cx you say.. May 05 07:29:07 which means that there's no need for the input method window May 05 07:29:07 lol May 05 07:29:11 which means it goes away May 05 07:29:13 which means ... May 05 07:29:21 ssvb, indeed I didn't try the audio options that mplayer suggests (and I'm just mostly playing around ... hadn't really though of watching movies on there... but if it can do it of course... I gotta see how well it does) May 05 07:29:50 RaymondL_, you can set the dock property under any window manager. It's attached to the window, not the window manager after all, but different window managers treat docks differently May 05 07:30:17 timeless_mbp, sounds to me that web browser should fix the problem :) May 05 07:30:32 CutMeOwnThroat: IIRC, some of the audio sampling rates are very bad for performance in mplayer (resampling happens somewhere and kills the performance) May 05 07:30:36 RaymondL_: you mean by implementing our own window manager and input method? May 05 07:30:38 gee, tempting May 05 07:30:44 but yeah, we're working on it May 05 07:31:22 is there dash for maemo? May 05 07:31:23 s/working on it/dropping the stylus keyboard/ ? May 05 07:31:41 LiraNuna, nope. it's already using ash. There's a bash package May 05 07:31:54 bash is heavy May 05 07:32:18 dash isn't really meant for users, is it? or were you thinking of running a script from somewhere? May 05 07:32:20 ssvb, but I guess the main thing really is "don't try to play a big DivX on a slow CPU!" :) May 05 07:32:36 CutMeOwnThroat: 48KHz audio slows everything down May 05 07:32:54 * johnx remembers this conversation with ssvb and will drop it on a wiki at some point May 05 07:33:19 ssvb, so 44.1KHz? Is 22050Hz ok as well? May 05 07:33:37 johnx, of course it's meant for users, ls -l /bin/sh lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 4 2009-02-28 04:04 /bin/sh -> dash May 05 07:34:14 normal 350mb 44min xvid's work fine for me on n800? May 05 07:34:31 johnx: 44.1 should be much better, don't know anything about 22 May 05 07:34:44 oh yeah May 05 07:34:49 LiraNuna, I should have said "as a login shell" May 05 07:34:59 runs fine with -nosound May 05 07:35:51 not with -ao null, though - that must still decode and then just dispose of it May 05 07:36:03 but that means choosing -ao something won't change things May 05 07:36:18 what about cross develop on 64bit? maemo sdk refuses to install May 05 07:36:39 CutMeOwnThroat: you can't be sure that it is fine, it could be displayed in "slow motion" May 05 07:36:58 LiraNuna, I know people do it. for the most part you can just hack the installer to not check I think May 05 07:37:15 ssvb, well, it's gone away from the stills... that is "fine" May 05 07:37:28 johnx, can I compile my own toolchain? May 05 07:37:41 true, without sound I wouldn't notice if it ran a bit slower May 05 07:37:53 CutMeOwnThroat: that's not fine if you are interested in audio May 05 07:38:09 too true May 05 07:38:21 LiraNuna, I don't know anyone who has, but I guess the answer is "technically, yes." May 05 07:38:35 you need two of the things :) one for video, one for audio May 05 07:38:39 CutMeOwnThroat: you can also use -noframedrop option, in this case video will be also smooth, but out of sync with audio May 05 07:39:41 CutMeOwnThroat: and you can adjust playback speed to slow it down a bit, but audio pitch will be wrong May 05 07:41:00 CutMeOwnThroat: something like '-speed 0.8' May 05 07:41:18 there's actually a cool audio filter May 05 07:41:37 scaletempo will adjust the pitch May 05 07:41:46 (not that that's overly helpful in this case) May 05 07:42:13 which means you can watch videos at 1.8x speed without thinking you're listening to pixies May 05 07:42:49 hm, can one copy&paste in the osso_xterm? May 05 07:42:59 whats wrong with mplayer? May 05 07:43:06 doesnt it play well enough for you guys May 05 07:44:00 zakkm: it's not perfect :) May 05 07:44:47 plays perfectly, and theres no way your get 720p going May 05 07:45:01 480p would be nice :) May 05 07:45:10 it does? May 05 07:45:12 not mpeg-2 tho May 05 07:45:20 480p xvid works just fine? May 05 07:45:40 only on some videos May 05 07:45:47 tv shows, 175mb/350mb xvid's play fine for me, never notice a framedrop or anything May 05 07:46:06 sure you got a up-to-date mplayer? May 05 07:46:19 well, -lavdopts lowres=1 is probably the way to go May 05 07:46:31 thats not 480p then ;p May 05 07:46:42 thats a lower quality, without encoding May 05 07:46:47 no May 05 07:47:00 lowres=1 .. May 05 07:47:06 it specially fuzzes out quite a lot in between keyframes, if I see that right May 05 07:48:13 CutMeOwnThroat: it actually decodes at half resolution, for example uses 4x4 idct instead of 8x8 tweaks motion compensation, etc. May 05 07:48:22 hmm May 05 07:48:35 hence = lower quality. May 05 07:48:41 guess I'll have to choose a different sample :) May 05 07:48:54 just use normal 175mb/350mb xvid's May 05 07:49:06 or if your encoding, go h.264 May 05 07:49:23 this option is only good when you have some video file and want to play it back on your device (having no possibility to transcode it) May 05 07:49:50 the other hacks are using grayscale decoding, this saves some cpu load too May 05 07:49:56 have filesize to consider too May 05 07:50:16 if your at home, use knots it would transcode May 05 07:50:21 well, this is 700MB May 05 07:50:28 700mb what? May 05 07:50:32 how many mins May 05 07:50:49 1:17 May 05 07:50:59 that should play perfectly May 05 07:51:02 ? May 05 07:51:13 well almost May 05 07:51:14 RIFF (little-endian) data, AVI, 688 x 384, 25.00 fps, video: XviD, audio: MPEG-1 Layer 3 (stereo, 48000 Hz) May 05 07:51:21 that should play okay May 05 07:51:23 g2gg sorry May 05 07:51:40 not if there's fast motion May 05 07:52:05 zakkm: it depends on how the file was encoded, B-frames are good for performance (can be easily skipped without artefacts), qpel is bad May 05 07:52:31 zakkm: gmc is extremely bad for performance May 05 07:53:41 he's gorn! May 05 07:54:17 ok :) May 05 07:54:17 how come your auto-complete didn't tell you :) May 05 07:56:04 nevertheless default encoding options from xvid are quite good for low cpu usage, but if somebody starts to tweak options, the result may be unplayable on internet tablets May 05 07:56:48 buybuy May 05 08:03:04 hmm, seems matchbox-keyboard do resize works under matchbox-wm, by setting the the toolbar type to true May 05 08:22:48 hi guys May 05 08:23:20 morning all May 05 08:23:47 morning lardman May 05 08:23:49 indeed, it's 3AM May 05 08:23:50 damnit May 05 08:23:51 bedtime May 05 08:24:36 moo lardman May 05 08:27:12 I was wondering if I could get some help setting up the SDK... I'm getting a weird error about the installer script not being able to run apt-get update inside scratchbox May 05 08:27:30 hey RST38h May 05 08:27:41 hey Stskeeps May 05 08:28:35 heh, smartq brand headphones May 05 08:28:36 neat May 05 08:31:58 hey Stskeeps, where did you get hold of your new toy? May 05 08:36:16 t_s_o: a long shot May 05 08:37:43 asked if they would like to donate one to the mer project .. and provided they hold their bargain we get 2 donated and 10 developer rebates May 05 08:38:21 i got one, zenvoid waiting for his May 05 08:38:41 have you got their devkit already? May 05 08:38:55 holy smokes, thats nice May 05 08:39:25 RST38h: not yet. but their community has produced a firmware maker May 05 08:39:57 i just asked yesterday for that info so (kernel plus firmware maaker) May 05 08:41:13 hmm, reading a article just now, is this device smaller then the N800? May 05 08:41:14 ah May 05 08:41:40 t_s_o: screen size same, but no dpad or kickstand May 05 08:41:47 ah May 05 08:41:52 or good speakers May 05 08:42:40 its a neat low cost tablet May 05 08:44:08 screen is quite nice and it seems to be armv7 May 05 08:44:21 and its light May 05 08:44:50 what's this device? May 05 08:45:11 smartq 5 mid May 05 08:45:29 runs ubuntu 8.04 May 05 08:46:14 * lardman is looking for something MID-like May 05 08:46:50 no kb though? May 05 08:47:32 looks cool though, and very cheap May 05 08:49:03 I used Navicore (or whatever it's called now) to navigate to and from Norfolk this weekend, and it was pretty good May 05 08:49:26 I don't know what people were complaining about, other than the "take turn now" once you've already turned down it/gone past it ;) May 05 08:57:30 lardman - "at the traffic circle" May 05 08:57:38 tracy loves todd May 05 08:57:45 no, it says roundabout I think doesn't it? May 05 08:58:03 i think it depends which voice May 05 08:58:16 by that point my codriver has already told me which exit and I'm lining up on the racing line... May 05 08:58:32 left 40, do not cut, flat in 4th May 05 08:58:33 etc May 05 08:58:34 heh yeah so u survived then May 05 08:58:50 yeah, no phone signals in Norfolk though, quite a quiet weekend May 05 08:58:58 thats a good thing May 05 08:59:20 i have only ever been there once May 05 08:59:22 if its the gps system used on the tablets, i think people is complaining about the "hidden" cost... May 05 08:59:41 yes t_s_o i agree there May 05 08:59:53 yeah perhaps, I got a licence + new Nokia GPS (i.e. BT, one which works) for £30 or so May 05 09:00:01 but the functionality itself is worth having May 05 09:01:04 those sirfstar3 GPSes are bloody wonderful, drive a few hundred miles, turn it on and it's locked in about 10s flat inside a car May 05 09:02:07 heh, now im tempted to get myself a new one. i got a sirf2 or something as i didnt do my research properly... May 05 09:02:13 not that i use gps much so... May 05 09:02:19 * lardman wonders, GPS navigation which outputs pacenotes.... :) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacenotes May 05 09:02:19 yeah, what it doesnt tell u is that it uses a camera, looks at the sky and uses stars properly ;) May 05 09:02:38 ScummVM works really well on the N810 May 05 09:02:48 * lcuk crashes vista for the 10th time this mornin May 05 09:02:55 t_s_o: over here you can get them for next to nothing (not the Nokia one, but same chipset) i.e. £30, I'd recommend it over the previous gen May 05 09:03:23 lcuk: well in Norfolk that might actually work, you can see more than 3 stars there! May 05 09:03:53 * timeless_mbp looks for a nokian May 05 09:04:00 * timeless_mbp considers walking to work to hunt one down May 05 09:04:21 timeless_mbp: bow or gun? May 05 09:04:22 andre__: thanks May 05 09:04:33 lardman: leash May 05 09:04:41 i just need someone to try logging into a mailbox May 05 09:04:48 actually, a net would work too May 05 09:04:53 or snare May 05 09:12:16 DotT works really really nice on the N810, even without HW accel May 05 09:12:57 why would it require hw acceleration? May 05 09:13:21 large rendering buffer May 05 09:13:42 I see no tearing which is nice May 05 09:14:15 it is just showing pictures May 05 09:14:43 showing a static picture has never been a problem really May 05 09:19:57 RST38h, apart from on Stskeeps' dodgy n800 May 05 09:20:30 haha May 05 09:20:43 oo, I've got 65 for discussion karma now, I think that's more than I had before May 05 09:21:38 arent u a moderator now - cant u just adjust your karma to whatever you want May 05 09:21:49 or tell ppl to thank you or be banned (mwahahahah) May 05 09:28:24 lcuk: that;s a feature May 05 09:32:12 its only a feature if you can control it ! May 05 09:35:02 feh. ScummVM really suffers from it being impossible to hover over things without clicking them May 05 09:35:14 I found Beneath a Steel Sky pretty hard as a result May 05 10:03:09 lcuk: He can turn it on and off! May 05 10:03:17 wjt, you can hover over things, but the system cannot detect you doing so May 05 10:03:24 that's control, isn't it? B) May 05 10:03:25 RST38h, thats a good point May 05 10:03:32 lcuk: well yes :) May 05 10:03:39 so to stop scrolling he shuts down pc May 05 10:03:44 lcuk: i think it would have been better to have clicking mapped to hovering May 05 10:03:52 lcuk: and to use the zoom buttons as LMB/RMB May 05 10:03:53 wjt, not at all May 05 10:04:02 lcuk: not in the entire tablet May 05 10:04:10 lcuk: just for scumm May 05 10:04:24 because quite a few scumm puzzles depend on you scrubbing for usable objects May 05 10:04:25 better to have a windowing system that is happy with a mouse pointer that isnt continuous and will warp May 05 10:10:59 lcuk: and made of bacon. May 05 10:11:11 RST38h: I'm reading your emulator howto pages May 05 10:11:14 good stuff May 05 10:15:06 lcuk: sorry for the tardy reply, had to get caffeine to counteract the swine flu May 05 10:15:24 lcuk: no discussion karma is for ml posts May 05 10:17:42 anyway, when do we expect the n900? May 05 10:17:57 * lardman attempts to get back in the loop May 05 10:18:35 you missed it, we are aiming for the n910 now :P May 05 10:18:41 drat! ;) May 05 10:19:32 lardman: You don't have one yet? Everybody in here has had it for a long time ;) You're really missing out! May 05 10:20:13 mornin X-Fade '\o May 05 10:20:28 X-Fade: :p anyway aren't you supposed to be working out where my Discussion karma has leaked away to? ;) May 05 10:20:39 :D May 05 10:20:56 lardman: One thing to check is if it at least grows when you post a message now. May 05 10:21:19 ok, I'll have a look at that May 05 10:21:35 can we rename karma pinocchio May 05 10:25:44 nose-over-ip May 05 10:32:36 Anyone have any recommendations for usb-vga adaptors? Are they all SiS based? May 05 10:34:11 lardman, MTK is better than SiRF May 05 10:34:34 Stskeeps, is it a Cortex? May 05 10:34:45 GAN800: you reckon? May 05 10:34:49 GAN800: samsung May 05 10:34:57 kernel claims it's armv7 May 05 10:35:00 lardman, the Startech is good for Linux compat. May 05 10:35:16 Stskeeps, then is it Cortex? May 05 10:35:17 I'm looking at cheapness as a major factor here May 05 10:36:29 m May 05 10:36:31 lardman, MTK has vastly better powersaving. SiRF IIIc is more inline, but nobody ships it. May 05 10:36:54 GAN800: http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer/Hardware/SmartQ5 May 05 10:36:57 fair enough, with a stand alone it doesn't make much odds though as the batteries are pretty big May 05 10:37:10 Stskeeps, because if it's ARM11, as I've so often heard, then that makes exactly zero sense. May 05 10:37:20 is the use of hwclock --systohc not needed on the N800? May 05 10:37:47 lardman, my i-Blue can easily run for 25 hours active. May 05 10:38:12 The Startech.com VGA adaptors are about as cheap as they get. May 05 10:38:24 that's longer than my n810 will run... so not necessary for me anyway. I think my SirfStar3 ones will last something like 15h, which is more than enough May 05 10:38:47 * GAN800 thinks the nightmare he just woke up from probably has good potential as a horror flick. May 05 10:39:10 those are pretty dear over here ~£75 afaict May 05 10:39:16 lardman, the i-Blue can sit for a week idle, however. May 05 10:39:36 Anyway, point is, MTK is usually cheaper, too. May 05 10:40:31 yeah but that's down to the gps controller, not the chipset, it switches it off and assumes that it can fast fix to overcome any problems May 05 10:40:51 Stskeeps, something REALLY isn't meshing up there. May 05 10:41:06 anyway I've not got an MTK one so I can't really comment, ss3 just looked a better bet when I bought one last year May 05 10:41:06 Stskeeps, is it or is it not a Cortex A8? May 05 10:41:08 GAN800: well, it's armv6+vfp definately May 05 10:41:37 lardman, SiRF III units don't do that. May 05 10:42:06 You didn't look hard enough then. :P May 05 10:42:29 Stskeeps, I dunno what to say, if it aint Cortex, it aint armv7 May 05 10:42:31 yes they do May 05 10:43:03 anyway I'm quite contented :) May 05 10:43:13 GAN800: i'm baffled too really May 05 10:43:48 The fairly obvious answer is that somebody is lying May 05 10:44:09 and that you should perpetrait the lie yourself. :P May 05 10:44:10 they only claimed a certain samsung chip at least May 05 10:44:23 s/should/shouldn't/ May 05 10:44:23 GAN800 meant: and that you shouldn't perpetrait the lie yourself. :P May 05 10:44:34 perpetrate. May 05 10:44:41 perpetuate May 05 10:44:57 Whatever, I just woke up. May 05 10:45:05 do vs continue May 05 10:46:42 This is really rather clearly ARM11: http://www.samsung.com/global/business/semiconductor/productInfo.do?fmly_id=229&partnum=S3C6410 May 05 10:47:12 So it really can't also be armv7 May 05 10:47:24 true May 05 10:48:04 I just recommended the n800 to a bunch of people for use in journalism, in combination with Wifi-SD cards for their cameras and a cellphone connection. :-) May 05 10:48:25 they tend to get arrested a lot, i figured there's no way to destroy evidence if it's already been uploaded with a script :-) May 05 10:48:28 perhaps they are just getting confused with the hw vs instruction set naming May 05 10:48:38 i.e. arm7 is the instruction set May 05 10:48:51 ARM11 is May 05 10:49:03 is the name of the hw May 05 10:49:06 either way May 05 10:49:10 i got their kernel and FW imaging scripts. May 05 10:49:40 * RST38h can't quite understand why having a certain ARM chip makes such a big difference May 05 10:50:21 cos it'd be awesome if it was armv7 and that cheap? :P May 05 10:50:34 s/arm7/arm11 May 05 10:50:44 :) May 05 10:51:15 this is the kind of tablet we can't rely on dpad interaction on May 05 10:53:13 oh, and http://www.daimi.au.dk/~cvm/mer-smartq.png , i didn't paste in here i think :P May 05 10:53:26 lardman, ARM11 is armv6. There's no confusion there. May 05 10:54:15 fair enough May 05 10:54:42 too many numbers for my liking :) May 05 10:55:59 thingamabobber May 05 10:56:19 whatyamacallit May 05 10:56:32 whatyamacallit version 11 that is May 05 10:56:37 Stskeeps, how well does it run May 05 10:56:45 lcuk: good May 05 10:56:48 is the framebuffer nice May 05 10:57:24 Engadget had a story recently about some idiot campaigning for less 'technical' language. Dont use words like 'desktop', etc. May 05 10:58:09 nothing wrong with less technical, there are more people without computer knowledge than with :) May 05 10:58:35 lcuk, there is when your definition of 'technical' is was off. May 05 10:58:39 s/was/way/ May 05 10:58:40 GAN800 meant: lcuk, there is when your definition of 'technical' is way off. May 05 10:59:25 i know a lot of people who would be banging on the wooden worktop when you said click on the desktop May 05 10:59:37 * lardman thinks desktop is reasonably straight-forward, in the same way as door-handle, etc May 05 10:59:41 For instance, what would you have mechanics call fuel injectors? Or sparkplugs? Those are technical terms by this guy's definition. May 05 11:00:20 gan800 nothing wrong with technical people talking technical terms at each other May 05 11:00:35 There's a reason for 'technical' language, and that's because specific names for specific things are easier than describing everything as a 'widget' or 'whatchamadoo' May 05 11:00:37 secret car bits that live under the bonnet? May 05 11:00:47 * lcuk doesnt know how a fuel injector works May 05 11:00:56 would lcuk like a lesson....? May 05 11:01:10 lcuk, nor is there in the expectation that people's vocabularies should exceed 2000 words. May 05 11:01:18 it has a hole, and fuel goes through it May 05 11:01:22 heh nope, i have my comfort zone, john up the street fixes the car, i fix the comp[uters May 05 11:01:48 :) May 05 11:03:13 the worst is telling a non computer person to right click on something, they always mishear you and think you said "right, click on ...." May 05 11:03:50 so you have to reword it as click with your right mouse button - yes the one on the right hand side May 05 11:04:34 Must be a UK thing. May 05 11:05:02 We never really say, 'Right, . . . ' over here in that particular context. May 05 11:05:57 so that's why they always know I'm a Brit May 05 11:06:20 and thats why assumptions of acceptable language are not universal and keeping it as simple as possible is good May 05 11:07:58 There's a point at which 'simple' makes things vastly more complicated as you don't have anything specific enough to describe what you're talking about and end up having to describe things as 'widgets' and 'thingamabobs'. May 05 11:08:11 This is the line that the guy crossed. May 05 11:08:42 Ah, penguinbait, classy Planet post with classy comments. May 05 11:15:38 heh, looks like my mer is broken May 05 11:15:46 it's in reboot loop May 05 11:16:30 we have reboot loops? jffs edition? May 05 11:18:16 Stskeeps: another mer target? http://www.slashgear.com/zhongyi-s101-mid-gets-hands-on-0542811/ May 05 11:18:27 Stskeeps: Got Mer running on that PMP? =) May 05 11:20:10 Stskeeps: is an proxy available for contentfiltering? May 05 11:21:37 can someone please set me straight if I'm wrong, but just read this ticket: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1045 which is marked as resolved, in freemantle, will freemantle eventually run on a n810? if not, how on earth can that ticket be considerd resolved? is there a FAQ regarding nokia made bugfixes where I can read up on policy instead? May 05 11:22:07 RST38h: yup May 05 11:23:13 RST38h: it's actually more of a MID May 05 11:23:15 Knirch: lets just say its a hot topic on the forum ;) May 05 11:23:52 t_s_o: right, so it's the same situation as it's been since 770? I thought that had changed :/ thanks May 05 11:24:05 Knirch: on the other hand Mer is in good progress May 05 11:24:14 Stskeeps: aye May 05 11:24:22 so the community will have a OS in their hands they control May 05 11:24:34 Stskeeps: is the wifi power save working in mer? May 05 11:24:40 t_s_o: yeah, it does now - (on n8x0?) May 05 11:30:05 At some stage I had to kill the media player, and since then it doesnt see any media thats on my removable SD card. When I open the media player it says 'refreshing library', but nothing ever happens.. and the CPU looks like its not doing anything at all. Does anyone know how I can fix this? May 05 11:30:47 Hello there, good morning. May 05 11:31:09 I'm trying to compile some Qt code on fremantle sdk, but got some linker errors: http://pastebin.com/d55f98e40 May 05 11:31:18 Anyone has an idea of what could be missing? May 05 11:32:41 hi, I'm porting game named openttd to maemo (diablo). It works but it has "famous" sdl-not-showing-window-in-list-issue and I cant fix it. What is current solution for it? May 05 11:32:54 aapo: isn't it already ported? May 05 11:33:05 * Stskeeps remembers playing it May 05 11:33:26 * glass remembers it having been ported in the 770 days May 05 11:34:08 aapo, for a window to show in the list it has to be registered with osso/hildon i think May 05 11:34:34 otherwise you are an outcast and your handle falls by the wayside May 05 11:34:42 a shame really May 05 11:34:59 Stskeeps: !!! May 05 11:35:20 RST38h: less than 24 hours it took me May 05 11:35:21 Stskeeps, I didn't found current release and compiled it. Very few patches needed May 05 11:35:37 RST38h: and i have the kernel and the GPL imager now May 05 11:35:49 * RST38h hurrahs thrice May 05 11:36:15 initially i thought it didn't work, but the problem was actually the backlight off ;p May 05 11:36:51 "let there be light" May 05 11:37:01 sshed in and turned backlight on .. :) May 05 11:37:17 do you think god used ssh too? May 05 11:37:43 I bet he wrote a script in lisp May 05 11:37:46 God used makefiles. May 05 11:38:12 Namely, He used gmake, that's where g- came from. May 05 11:38:20 Knirch, Nokia is helping backport the Fremantle stuff through Mer. May 05 11:38:35 GAN800: doesn't apply to media player though May 05 11:38:43 which was the example :) May 05 11:39:15 Stskeeps: Did you notice any problems with sysv-rc vs mini-rc? May 05 11:39:29 GAN800: ok, doesn't change anything though, one would expect software issues to be resolved in the device I own, with the firmware I bought May 05 11:39:34 X-Fade: for the fremantle stuff? don't think so May 05 11:39:40 they're switching to upstart anyway May 05 11:39:48 GAN800: I do like Mer, even more so due to stuff like this May 05 11:39:52 Stskeeps: Yeah, I guess that is what mini-rc is for? May 05 11:40:27 Stskeeps: At the moment we aren't able to build any package, which uses nokia-binaries, because it wants to install mini-rc May 05 11:40:35 Which in turn removes sysv-rc ;) May 05 11:40:39 X-Fade: ah, i didn't look at mini-rc at all May 05 11:40:40 as in May 05 11:40:41 nokia-binaries May 05 11:40:48 GAN800: It's just depressing to see they _still_ do this, fix something for the upcoming devices and leave the old ones behind, regardless of support for community project, hack editions whatnot May 05 11:41:10 Knirch, which bug? May 05 11:41:39 the one I used as an example to ask my question was this: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1045 May 05 11:41:41 http://xkcd.com/224/ May 05 11:43:20 Knirch, in this case, it's more justified than not. May 05 11:43:34 "metalayer-crawler is a POS"? :P May 05 11:43:46 lol t_s_o May 05 11:43:51 GeneralAntilles: as an example May 05 11:44:04 what is the latest version of maemo os2008? May 05 11:44:11 It's a weak deal, sure, but the reality is that Nokia can't deliver Fremantle with the experience they want to have on OMAP2 hardware. May 05 11:44:13 Stskeeps: Anyway, it is giving me a lot of pain right now ;) May 05 11:44:30 GeneralAntilles: that's an absurd argument May 05 11:44:53 X-Fade: my gripe is mostly with scratchbox-isms currently.. i hope it will be a requirement for extras to not contain sb-isms, heh :P May 05 11:44:54 Knirch, you wouldn't say that if you were familiar with the hardware and software involved. May 05 11:44:59 (using maemian checks) May 05 11:45:01 what you're saying is that my current hardware is incapable of sorting May 05 11:45:12 ah, so it's the "no more updates for diablo" May 05 11:45:12 :P May 05 11:45:15 argument May 05 11:45:17 Knirch, no, I'm not talking about any specific bug. May 05 11:45:19 * Knirch headdesks May 05 11:45:43 I'm talking about Fremantle on OMAP2. May 05 11:45:48 I understand that freemantle won't run on my current device, I'm fine with that May 05 11:45:57 development can't stand still May 05 11:45:58 Since Fremantle was menionted earlier, I assumed that was what this was about. May 05 11:46:00 but _bugfixes_ May 05 11:46:17 GeneralAntilles: yes, the bug is resolved since it's resolved in freemantle May 05 11:46:26 s/freemantle/Fremantle/g May 05 11:46:58 Anyway, Media player sucks. Why would anybody want to use it over the dozen and one open source community alternatives? May 05 11:47:23 and yet again, I only used that as an example to ask my question which has been answered May 05 11:47:32 technically because its the simplest and most default and installed everywhere and generally "works" May 05 11:47:45 * RST38h is kinda concerned that of all the applications Nokia provides with its device, only MicroB works semidecently May 05 11:47:54 that almost no more bug will be fixed in nokia branded software for my current device, just like it was when I only had the 770 :) May 05 11:47:58 s/applications/major end-user application May 05 11:48:23 RST38h, this is why I think people shouting for more bundled applications and bundled community applications are silly. May 05 11:48:47 General: I just think Nokia has to put its act together May 05 11:49:26 The main usage cases (web,mail,music,video,photo) should sparkle May 05 11:50:33 I'm thinking it'll come together with Fremantle onward. May 05 11:50:46 RST38h: sparkle, crack, pop... ? May 05 11:50:49 lcuk, oh, and that's a stupid reason to hamstring yourself with shitty software. May 05 11:51:09 s/pop/poop/ ? May 05 11:51:31 what is? minimal working stuff - when i need it it works - i still use shitty winamp here at home because it does what i need and doesnt try to get in my way May 05 11:51:35 It's actually a good thing that MicroB sucks so much, as its endless focus and virtual input bugs are the only things forcing me to use a real computer. May 05 11:51:43 heh May 05 11:53:00 input bugs? What are those? I haven't found those yet :-) May 05 11:53:43 timeless_mbp, did you forget to remove those #ifdef user==GAN things again May 05 11:53:55 ShadowJK, the fact that the finger keyboard just plain doesn't work. May 05 11:54:08 ah May 05 11:54:26 my N800's touchscreen is still not too crap to use the stylus keyboard with finger May 05 11:54:34 I'm utterly amazed OS2008 made it out the door and THEN managed to ship updates for a year and virtual input is still so UTTERLY BROKEN. May 05 11:54:46 It's the one thing that regularly makes me want to punt my tablet out a window. May 05 11:55:01 can we have a video whilst you do? May 05 11:55:01 and on my N810 I'd rather use the finger keyboard with fingers, but alas once the touchscreen goes insensitive it no longer distinguishes between stylus and fingertap.. May 05 11:55:58 ShadowJK, yeah x11 picks up the stylus input using a threshhold - if i use native x11 mouse events i get broken strokes and missed input May 05 11:56:12 but using the xsp pressure library it registers whole strokes May 05 11:57:06 i keep pondering if the threshhold can be changed, but x11 is big and imposing May 05 11:59:20 afternoon jeremiah_ May 05 11:59:32 I'd want a different threshold for different parts of the screen... May 05 11:59:49 a few people have said that - basically a pair of glasses May 05 11:59:54 but for x11 and gtk you dont need that May 05 12:00:00 since pressure isnt natively required May 05 12:00:03 hack up tslib? :P May 05 12:00:14 you simply need to know when you touched it May 05 12:00:43 Stskeeps, the problem is how do you configure it - it would have to be a warp map as well May 05 12:00:55 true May 05 12:00:59 and it would have to adjust with temp and stuff May 05 12:01:26 granted, if it were a nasa project we would reprocess all input and throw it through a mask and out the other side May 05 12:01:40 (like hubble had done) May 05 12:02:07 lcuk, well I'd want it to require the same pressure to register as click everywhere... I think it'd be much nicer to use if I had to stab it everywhere, instead of having this ring where literally just touching it registers as click, and a circle in the middle that requires serious stabbing to register as click, and the edges that require pressure somewhere in between. When I type on the onscreen keyboards, when I move from a letter on the sensitive area to a May 05 12:02:14 letter on the insensitive area, I start losing letters because what worked for the previous letters don't work for the other ones May 05 12:02:42 http://www.tom-carden.co.uk/2005/07/28/grid-warp/ May 05 12:03:00 ShadowJK, you really wouldnt notice - a touch is a touch May 05 12:03:38 * Stskeeps ponders how much power budget that USB port has May 05 12:03:44 if your screen is soooooooo bad its not registering anything at all unless punched no amount of hacking will work May 05 12:03:53 Stskeeps, 8x0 or q?# May 05 12:03:57 Oh but what registers are click on the sensitive area, didn't produce any visible results (or randomly distorted results) when I tried liqbase as you suggested May 05 12:04:00 lcuk: q5 May 05 12:04:12 it is shown with a gprs dongle so May 05 12:04:16 lcuk, hack the thresholds so that I need a punch everywhere :-) May 05 12:04:25 i.e. different threshold for different areas of screen May 05 12:04:53 but if the pressure isnt reporting being touched thats a different issue May 05 12:05:13 you just said its not reporting correctly from liqbase - in that case thats worse May 05 12:05:26 since im asking the xsp library directly for pressure readings May 05 12:05:59 I can touch the screen with stylus (lightly) on all of the screen without seeing anything drawn in liqbase May 05 12:06:39 ShadowJK: It is a resistive touchscreen. You need to apply some presure. May 05 12:06:56 if I apply minimal of pressure, there's a "halo" where stuff is drawn, basically a circular band that excludes the middle and the edges May 05 12:07:07 if I apple moderate pressure, it registers on the edges too May 05 12:07:15 if I apply lots of pressure, it registers on the entire screen May 05 12:08:30 Now obviously the screen is reporting different pressure values for the same amount of physical pressure, depending on where on the screen I'm pressing... So I'd want a a way to calibrate either the pressure reporting, or the thresholds May 05 12:09:06 but if the screen is NOT returning any reported values for a particular location (using the pressure library) then how can changing the threshhold help May 05 12:09:16 that is a different issue to the one i am talking about May 05 12:09:37 then I don't know what issue you're talking about? May 05 12:10:34 im talking about getting broken lines and missing clicks when i DO click hard enough and there are values reported in pressure library, but x11 takes a hard threshhold and if you press over that it registers a mousedown May 05 12:11:13 huh, if you press too hard? May 05 12:12:14 i know how hard to press because i am writing all the time, i also know when i have compiled liqbase to include or exclude pressure support because when im writing it comes out broken using x11 alone and together when using pressure library May 05 12:12:55 hm, do you want it to not register mouseup until no pressure at all is registered? May 05 12:12:58 but anyway, enough typin for today May 05 12:13:25 * ShadowJK was talking about the thing not registering taps May 05 12:15:54 Anyway... what I would like is a tap-calibration... Provide calibration targets, say 16 x 8 of them or more... have me tap all of them with equal pressure (how to do this is left as an excercise to the reader ;), record the reported pressure, interpolate it over all of the screen, and use that as threshold for reporting mousedown May 05 12:16:19 And how do you intend to maintain the same pressure between taps? May 05 12:17:06 Oh temporarily tape a AAA battery to the stylus and just use fingers to guide it to stand on the targets, or something similar.. May 05 12:17:16 gravity May 05 12:18:43 Do you expect this to be included into the paper user manual? =) May 05 12:18:54 how can I tell if meta-crawler is working or not? May 05 12:19:44 RST38h, they could include a plastic widget for it :) May 05 12:20:09 Include a single AA battery, then watch poor users as they try to insert it into the gadget May 05 12:20:43 When I run meta-crawler in debug mode I get 'Segment fault' how could I get more information about why thats happening? May 05 12:21:38 metalayer-crawler rather May 05 12:22:47 make it drop a core then gdb meta-crawler core May 05 12:22:52 RST38h, the obvious solution is to not have crapass touchscreen May 05 12:23:08 But failing that, I guess you have to fix the hardware in software somehow May 05 12:23:09 Shadow: Or, at least, do not bend it during installation May 05 12:24:04 usicow: if you create a folder called core-dumps in the root of your mmc1, you should get a core dump. May 05 12:24:10 I wonder what Nokia Care would tell me about touchscreen sensitivity May 05 12:24:34 would they tell me it's fine as long as a alkaline D battery attached to stylus registers as click? :-) May 05 12:25:30 They will tell you it is absolutely normal May 05 12:25:53 And if you ask why an application X does ot register pressure evenly, they will tell you thta they do not support 3rd party apps May 05 12:26:11 but it's noticeable in... Sketch! May 05 12:26:26 Is Sketch a bundled app? May 05 12:26:31 ya May 05 12:26:44 the stylus keyboard too May 05 12:26:58 This will make 'em think a little bit then come up with some other explanation May 05 12:27:16 they'll blame my operator May 05 12:27:20 The last bubble in their diagram is probably "send your device for repairs" May 05 12:28:36 having attached an AAA battery to my stylus now with a cabletie... May 05 12:28:45 the upper edge of hte screen notices nothing :) May 05 12:29:03 Shadow: Just drop it from a bigger height May 05 12:29:14 I'm not dropping at all May 05 12:32:01 I should post pic of stylus with battery to ITT and claim it's a call-home feature of the N900 stylus, so you can find it when you lose it May 05 12:33:00 if you genuinely want to find a reproducable testing mechanism, using a steel ball bearing of specified diameter and density and roll it around the screen. (like the game lbt mentioned last night) May 05 12:33:24 oh yesss May 05 12:33:44 Yeah I was thinking something liek that would be ideal May 05 12:33:51 in fact, there is no need for a specific diameter or density May 05 12:34:00 because you are looking for relative values May 05 12:34:22 course there is - if i used a pingpong ball vs a steelie it wont be the same May 05 12:34:50 well, with stylus and AAA I can paint approx 75% of the screen :) May 05 12:34:56 yea, you want it to be heavy enough May 05 12:52:15 is there a way to scan and correct any corruption on an SD card in the N810? May 05 12:52:26 any corruption? May 05 12:52:39 there's a way to scan sd corruptions for certain corruptions May 05 12:52:50 but we can't guarantee that we would understand any random corruption May 05 12:52:58 fair enough.. :) May 05 12:53:08 it's available from file manager May 05 12:53:15 thanks May 05 12:53:17 you should of course be running the latest os release May 05 12:53:24 yep May 05 13:13:34 hm... May 05 13:13:48 looks like tslib's linear module has stuff for pressure scaling May 05 13:13:52 but no way to set it :) May 05 13:19:41 If I rmemeber correctly, the device returns an 8bit pressure reding May 05 13:19:55 However you scale it, it is still a faulty 8bit pressure reading May 05 13:44:26 * man_in_ltop waves May 05 13:44:49 so i've been playing nethack on maemo May 05 13:45:24 it's got some annoying quirks :D May 05 13:54:53 hola May 05 14:04:08 HOLLAR May 05 14:08:20 Oooh, i remember what's i wanted May 05 14:09:06 dictionary for maemo :D May 05 14:09:26 i see dict client, but i want something stored locally :) May 05 14:13:32 stardict or something like that May 05 14:13:47 there are a couple of them around, or there were anyway May 05 14:14:30 hi lardman May 05 14:14:39 hey woglinde May 05 14:35:01 hm May 05 14:35:12 trying to install some working printer drivers for this stupid brother laserprinter May 05 14:39:20 anyone tried nethack on maemo? :) May 05 14:40:28 "For those a little delicate, we have tried them, and although they be a little sandy, they are delicious." May 05 14:40:39 Guess (without Google) what it was about May 05 14:41:05 something that you normally see in porn? May 05 14:41:17 mmm, no, not really May 05 14:41:27 would be too simple May 05 14:41:44 iphone May 05 14:41:50 no. May 05 14:41:55 no gadget porn either. May 05 14:41:59 am i warmer? May 05 14:44:11 wtf May 05 14:44:17 now the gnome printing utility just disappeared May 05 14:44:29 because apt-get removed it for i can't even understand what reason May 05 14:45:50 man: not at all May 05 14:45:58 Any more takers? May 05 14:47:30 Ok, the answer: http://www.anarchistnews.org/?q=node/7202 May 05 14:48:41 Macer: what is a "gnome printing utility"? print dialogs, or talking about a specific package? May 05 14:49:00 the little printing app that pops up under administration May 05 14:49:09 for some reason apt-get removed it and i don't know what pkg it is a part of May 05 14:51:12 i thnk i found it May 05 14:51:33 that made no sense May 05 14:51:43 i have no idea why apt-get would remove something like that when it is in use May 05 14:54:42 well.. got it working May 05 14:54:48 that was a bigger pain than i thought it would be :) May 05 15:23:07 andre__, you want to start a pool on when we'll get an answer on 3602? :P May 05 15:24:15 GAN800: I'm in. 10 Euros says not until June. May 05 15:24:54 heh May 05 15:24:58 Oops. Should have read the whole thread. May 05 15:25:03 I take it back. May 05 15:25:11 That might never get answered. May 05 15:25:55 i should fly to helsinki, get a list of people that don't answer, and block their doors until i get one. ;-) May 05 15:26:07 GAN800, got some maemo.org bugzilla template file somewhere? May 05 15:26:35 andre__, got a local copy of the svn I've been poking at. May 05 15:26:42 oh nice May 05 15:26:49 (sorry for responding so late) May 05 15:26:54 I think I might need to reclone and start over, though. May 05 15:26:55 and? works(tm)? :) May 05 15:26:58 uh May 05 15:27:11 Dunno, got nothing to test it with. May 05 15:27:29 I moved the footer stuff into the sidebar May 05 15:27:36 but can you send me a patch? May 05 15:27:39 Which I don't think will work. May 05 15:27:46 hmm, that might be... confusing May 05 15:27:51 andre__, how about recruiting someone in here to deliver a copy of the question, constructed by cutting out letters from magazines and gluing to a sheet of paper, to their mailboxes? May 05 15:27:54 Um, yeah, probably tomorrow May 05 15:28:19 GAN800, well, options stuff isn't needed that often IMO (at least not for average users), hence bottom is probably preferable May 05 15:28:23 Any chance of testing it somewhere or do I need to setup a local install? May 05 15:28:38 we should test it on testzilla IMO May 05 15:28:54 ShadowJK, now that sounds like a plan! :) May 05 15:29:10 I'll work on it tonight and toss you a patch tomorrow. May 05 15:29:12 There are loads and loads of packages that do not have the right maintainer in maemo. May 05 15:29:40 I like the ones with Ubuntu mailing lists as maintainers. May 05 15:29:42 If we are going to start rejecting or demoting packages, we need to have the right email address of whomever uploaded the package. May 05 15:29:48 GAN800: lol May 05 15:29:55 heh May 05 15:29:59 I haven't seen that yet. :) May 05 15:30:27 ntp-docs May 05 15:30:33 I wonder if we can co-ordinate the garage email address with uploading a package? May 05 15:31:12 And spit out an error message if they don't match? May 05 15:31:30 I wish we could get the goddamn categories out the door so we can start harassing maintainers May 05 15:32:21 So far all we've freaking gotten from Nokia for Mer and continued Diablo support is a lot of hot air. May 05 15:32:39 GAN800: Yeah, that is a good think too. May 05 15:32:42 thing May 05 15:33:02 Sorry, what I am trying to say is I agree with you. May 05 15:33:16 fingers so cold May 05 15:33:25 need more hot air May 05 15:33:37 BTW, this is a little weird, but works: http://test.maemo.org/cgi-bin/search.cgi May 05 15:33:39 Can't even get them to look at work-free website patches. May 05 15:33:42 * GAN800 sighs May 05 15:33:50 I need to strip the icons somehow, but otherwise. May 05 15:34:06 I miss the maemo applications wiki page. May 05 15:34:10 Try 'chrpath' for example May 05 15:34:15 The Days Before Extras May 05 15:42:41 https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1282 :( May 05 15:43:13 is there a aptitude port for maemo? May 05 15:44:14 torkiano: I haven't seen one. May 05 15:45:39 andre__: ping May 05 15:46:10 timeless_mbp, pong May 05 15:46:29 so, about my notes bug May 05 15:46:37 can you please hit them with a cluebat May 05 15:46:52 a quick test shows that you don't "always" get that error message May 05 15:47:06 and any sane person would tell you that you can't usefully give that error message May 05 15:47:11 please hit them yourself. see the int ref in the alias field... May 05 15:47:17 yeah, i looked May 05 15:47:18 it's really easier. you have access to test that stuff May 05 15:47:24 i'm now more depressed than i was before May 05 15:47:33 even if you hate discussing it directly with them ;-)) May 05 15:47:43 you can see why! May 05 15:47:57 yeah. i've seen enough such cases. May 05 16:08:50 GeneralAntilles: hi, do you remember whether there is a high-res maemo.org logo somewhere in maemo.org? May 05 16:09:23 ah http://maemo.org/legal/terms_of_use/trademarks/logos/ May 05 16:09:55 Still haven't managed to round up an svg of the favicon. . . . May 05 16:56:58 Hi Guys, having some trouble with maemo/n810 and hoping it might be a common issue-- Attempting to use the n810 in USB host mode to serve as the master for a device my company is building-- plug in the device, issue lsusb (and see expected results), and the system hangs within a few seconds, then resets itself. Thinking it might be power related, but have tried the same through a powered hub and the problem persists-- Our device May 05 16:58:32 and i presume you did enable usb host, after rmmod g_file_storage? May 05 16:58:53 Did the former, had not tried the latter May 05 16:59:27 Can give that a shot if you think it might help May 05 16:59:46 give it a try :) May 05 16:59:52 sure, thanks, will do that right now May 05 17:08:56 Hmm, I seem to lose USB entirely when I rmmod g_file_storage May 05 17:37:42 ive heard someone else with the same rebooting issue with a usb keyboard, but he wasnt using the stock kernel May 05 17:43:17 tank-man: Fancy seeing you here-- All stock here, including repositories-- only thing added has been openssh-server and usbcontrol May 05 17:43:22 stock otherwise May 05 17:46:16 anything interesting from "dmesg" before the reboot? May 05 17:48:22 not that I've managed to intercept, I have noticed that I can extend survival a little longer by not running lsusb (which fairly immediately causes it) but it ultimately hangs and restarts no matter what May 05 17:57:46 test May 05 17:58:25 fail May 05 18:08:09 bot! May 05 18:45:32 http://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/img-1-mq.jpg <- N800 & smartq5 :P May 05 18:46:22 If they mate, what will you call the offpsring? May 05 18:46:28 n805? May 05 18:46:28 :P May 05 18:46:32 ehhh May 05 18:46:52 the chinese one does look cool, better than n800 May 05 18:47:06 the sd slot is a bitch though May 05 18:47:20 i often have to pull the sd out, and clicking it isn't easy May 05 18:47:27 well, n810 sd slot also isn't fun May 05 18:52:05 beyond that it's excellent for touch May 05 18:52:57 and actually looks better than an iphone, heh May 05 18:55:44 Stskeeps, lower dpi then May 05 18:55:50 (v nice tho) May 05 18:55:54 lcuk: same size screen May 05 18:56:04 ahh optical illusion May 05 18:56:10 the screen looks bigger than in n8x0 May 05 18:56:15 yeah May 05 18:56:17 it's perspective May 05 18:56:32 it wasnt just that, its size of the bezel May 05 18:57:07 yep May 05 18:58:32 Stskeeps, WHERES THE D-PAD? May 05 18:58:52 lcuk: yeah, exactly May 05 18:58:52 since that is the most common thing ppl scream at new tech May 05 18:58:58 there's 3 buttons on top but no dpad. May 05 18:59:20 no camera either by the looks May 05 18:59:26 its a digital photo frame :) May 05 18:59:28 wait until you get a chance to ask this question about n9x0 May 05 18:59:29 which is cool May 05 18:59:42 RST38h: i'm inclined to think fremantle doesn't need a dpad May 05 18:59:46 * lcuk can see these devices doing very well for what i have in mind May 05 18:59:58 lcuk: with wifi and bluetooth and usb host/otg/gadget.. and speaker and microphone May 05 19:00:02 .. and tv out it seems May 05 19:00:06 nice May 05 19:00:27 and 2000mAh battery May 05 19:00:33 Sts: Fremantle may not but I do May 05 19:00:36 the buttons on top are 770 like May 05 19:00:48 Sts: how is battery life on smartq May 05 19:01:44 RST38h: ran it over 4 hours yesterday but i would like to move away from my rather electrically insecure plug convertor at the moment May 05 19:04:48 RST38h: ubuntu lxde isn't exactly power saving May 05 19:05:20 Sts: Still no hildon desktop there? May 05 19:05:29 RST38h: what, huh? :P May 05 19:05:36 just asking =) May 05 19:05:46 i got the device about 26 hours ago :P May 05 19:05:49 yes, i have hildon desktop May 05 19:05:52 look at the pic :) May 05 19:06:01 so why lxde? May 05 19:06:10 lxde was their own setup May 05 19:06:16 which is what i tested with May 05 19:06:25 ah, I am more interested in how it fares under mer May 05 19:06:36 which is supposed to be very power saving May 05 19:06:43 yeah - i will look forward that too May 05 19:07:25 as well as seeing if wifi power saving works May 05 19:08:35 RST38h, if you want to be a mer developer we might be able to swing you a discount code for the smartq ... May 05 19:10:20 funny fact: it says ccc fcc and ce May 05 19:11:08 I think in some cases you can pay a company to get all the testing done for you at once May 05 19:11:22 well if it's based on a development board, hm :P May 05 19:11:33 it might not cost that much more to get ce and fcc done at the same time ... May 05 19:11:42 johnx: I have nothign against another gadget May 05 19:12:00 johnx: but no time either =( May 05 19:13:26 well even if you just want to buy one to port emus too, it isnt like they are that expensive May 05 19:13:55 also excuse the punctuation as I need to do a bit of work on this keymap it seems May 05 19:14:33 The review says $132 in China May 05 19:14:44 not a lot of money indeed May 05 19:15:07 "eBay Fakes Devalue the Craft of Tomb Robbing" <=== hehehe May 05 19:18:17 Stskeeps, have you been and gloated in the pandora thread yet? May 05 19:19:10 lcuk: nah May 05 19:19:14 no need to make enemies May 05 19:19:36 ah, it is more like beating zombies than making enemies May 05 19:19:51 good one :) May 05 19:25:09 heh, I think most of the pandora people left that thread long ago :) May 05 19:25:57 enjoy: http://latemag.com/district-9-trailer May 05 19:26:14 anyone know why the advanced battery statusbar icon, the battery % only goes up to like 93%? May 05 19:26:33 really, mine goes all the way to 11 May 05 19:27:01 they use a different algorithm for determining when the battery is "full" than the Nokia battery applet May 05 19:27:11 different batteries charge different amounts May 05 19:27:17 yeah but it stops at 93%, i find that odd ;p May 05 19:27:43 could the battery be replaced with a more long lasting one? May 05 19:27:48 yes May 05 19:27:49 i have one May 05 19:27:56 how much May 05 19:27:58 mah ? May 05 19:28:04 but you have to use a different bulging backplate May 05 19:28:07 i have mine attached to a big battery, but the lead is a tad short May 05 19:28:10 so the n810 becomes less nice to handhold May 05 19:28:13 yes but bigger capacity batteries are bigger May 05 19:28:20 so i never use it May 05 19:28:28 none same size, but more capacity? May 05 19:28:31 because it wont easilly fit in my trouser pockets then May 05 19:28:33 condensed May 05 19:28:33 locutus, you got a mugen? May 05 19:28:38 lcuk: dunno May 05 19:28:42 lcuk: i was given this set as a present May 05 19:28:46 cool May 05 19:28:58 yeah May 05 19:28:59 mugen May 05 19:29:00 zakkm, whats wrong with battery life, barring the 93% May 05 19:29:19 i just find it odd being fully charged and it saying its at 93% :P May 05 19:29:20 zakkm: it could btw be that your battery just doesnt charge to 100% full anymore May 05 19:29:23 zakkm: which can happen with age May 05 19:29:30 locutus, there is a hardware hacker who makes addins which use the extra space that battery holds May 05 19:29:46 hes got all sorts of goodies in mind May 05 19:29:53 zakkm: mugen 3600mAh yes May 05 19:29:53 lcuk: yeah, i have one which adds a full sized SD slot there May 05 19:29:57 lcuk: i see no real use for it, as i just use a MicroSD+MiniSD adapter May 05 19:30:11 would that 3600mah mugen fit perfectly? May 05 19:30:43 zakkm, did you not listen - he has a fat extended back cover May 05 19:30:46 http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23205 May 05 19:30:48 photos here May 05 19:30:50 that 3600mAh one fits only with a fat cover May 05 19:31:02 oh wow May 05 19:31:12 32gb sdhc ;o May 05 19:31:27 i think hes making a kitchensink addon next May 05 19:33:37 what do 770's go for these days? May 05 19:34:20 original retail * 10 i think May 05 19:34:32 they are almost collectables :D May 05 19:34:52 dang May 05 19:35:05 ebay will tell you - its not expensive i dont think May 05 19:35:12 i was thinking of selling my n800 and buy a 770 .. May 05 19:35:16 and end up with some nice cash ;p May 05 19:35:28 but why would you want a 770? May 05 19:35:34 apart from hard cover May 05 19:35:37 and cool design May 05 19:35:41 and retro chic May 05 19:35:41 n770 looks crappy May 05 19:35:43 between that or a smartq 5 i think May 05 19:35:58 i dont like the way the n800 looks May 05 19:36:03 and im using it less and less May 05 19:36:08 trading down from an n800 to a 770 would kinda suck May 05 19:36:12 what are you using instead May 05 19:36:19 * RST38h suggests a microVAX for that retro chic feeling May 05 19:36:24 i used to have a 770, bought it on ebay for $85, but then it wsod'd and i got screwed May 05 19:36:28 like a month later May 05 19:36:32 RST38h: why a -micro- VAX? May 05 19:36:38 they're all gonna WSOD one day May 05 19:36:44 RST38h: why not go all out and get a VAX780 ? ;-) May 05 19:38:22 anyone on twitter? May 05 19:38:33 mines lookin empty May 05 19:49:34 hi there May 05 19:49:49 I'm looking for fast feedback about this page: http://wiki.maemo.org/Mozilla_Maemo_Danish_Weekend May 05 19:50:14 how can it serve better the purpose of bringing more developers to Copenhagen at the end of this month? May 05 19:50:37 Flash! May 05 19:50:59 Free hats! May 05 19:51:00 agenda ? May 05 19:51:15 free hats.. damn i should of got invited :D May 05 19:51:32 Somebody needs to poke Tim about getting the shirts together May 05 19:51:33 2 hrs hacking code, lots of free coffee May 05 19:51:43 4 hrs hacking code, lots of free coffee May 05 19:51:55 qgil, got a nice logo for the event you could stick on the top? May 05 19:51:56 GeneralAntilles: like http://www.ounae.com/wp-content/uploads//2008/03/vintage-flash-camera-clock.jpg May 05 19:52:10 more promotion, especially at DK University's May 05 19:52:17 qgil, combined with hypnosis that might work May 05 19:52:23 but I was thinking the Adobe sort. :P May 05 19:52:24 GeneralAntilles: not hats, but free entrance, lunch and even some beers May 05 19:52:29 promise to show off pre-production prototypes.... May 05 19:52:30 re May 05 19:52:49 yeah, some "re" too May 05 19:53:08 logo for the vent, the Mozilla guys are onto something, yes May 05 19:53:09 * lbt assumes "re" is Danish coffee May 05 19:53:38 seriously - do people know what's actually happening? May 05 19:54:15 local promotion yes, I have failed in my part and the Mozilla office located in the very same campus haven't been that active either. Noted. With urgency. May 05 19:54:49 I'm kinda expecting to talk, see lots of laptops compiling code, new ideas being sketched out on whiteboards... May 05 19:54:58 design reviews May 05 19:55:03 that kind of thing May 05 19:55:20 yeah - facilities would be good, what can we get of equipment, will we be sitting sweating at tables in the big hall or where would we be or something :) May 05 19:55:21 lbt: believe it or not I'm working hard to get some kind of development boards so people can see their apps in real action - but can't promise at this point May 05 19:55:33 whiteboards, HDMI/DVI screens, etc May 05 19:55:38 so people can start preparing demos May 05 19:55:40 heh - that's a hook to attract attention May 05 19:55:45 * zakkm wants a free maemo hat :) May 05 19:55:57 but actually saying "talk, lots of laptops compiling code, new ideas being sketched out on whiteboards..." May 05 19:56:18 intense/creative design atmosphere May 05 19:56:21 or even simple stuff about if there'll be a coffee machine ;p May 05 19:56:26 Stskeeps & lbt , you mean a schedule (if only a skeleton) where you can visualize what will be there May 05 19:56:40 schedule sketch might also help so people can start proposing May 05 19:56:47 yes... and I don't know what a "hackfest" really is May 05 19:57:02 I don't know whether to do a powerpoint show on OBS May 05 19:57:07 or a screencast May 05 19:57:21 or just have an example to walk through on a big projector May 05 19:57:25 lbt: yes, you can May 05 19:57:38 ok, I'll start working on a skleton right now May 05 19:57:38 heh - pick one eh? May 05 19:58:11 do we need a pre-meeting meeting to arrange some of the specifics May 05 19:58:20 also the Mozilla guys found the "official" hotel and booked 40 double rooms, that would help making things concrete as well :) May 05 19:58:25 qgil, have you heard whether vlads clearance is ok May 05 19:58:41 also, we have sponsored about a bunch of developers, but also nobody knowsn May 05 19:58:45 there will be people who have lots of knowledge... but I assume there will be "walk in" people too? May 05 19:58:55 and nobody knows we still have budget to sponsor some more good developers May 05 19:58:56 what are they doing ? May 05 19:58:57 qgil: another idea since much of it is tablet-centered - there's a small bunch of Nokians coming - what areas that they are in might be good for people to know May 05 19:59:10 any Qt people? May 05 19:59:17 such as, if there's a hildon expert coming or clutter, that'd be great to know May 05 19:59:30 paff gtk ... May 05 19:59:40 qgil, i would like to have a pow-wow with kot and crash and a couple of others - it might have been mentioned May 05 19:59:41 lcuk, do we really need a meeting (may be), or is it about action in the wiki + mailing list + forum, planet... May 05 19:59:55 * lcuk was joking May 05 20:00:08 ad-hoc irc meeting may be an idea May 05 20:00:18 Stskeeps: the nokians coming basically belong to development platform and browser May 05 20:00:25 we already had ours - i am eager to speak with vlad and sampo May 05 20:00:41 since the rest are tied to their Fremantle desks with a thick iron chain May 05 20:00:46 do you know if hendrik is coming May 05 20:01:09 VERY important: don't forget the (free) snacks & coffee :P it's a very important part in this kind of events May 05 20:01:32 lbt: qt people, that's a good point May 05 20:01:42 Antonio is busy :( May 05 20:01:58 I expect Kate and Antonio to b there at least, will ask the official post-trolls as well May 05 20:02:34 VDVsx: eating and drinking (with moderation) shouldn't b a problem, even for free May 05 20:02:51 heh, the cantina at ITU is interesting - you get charged per kg :> May 05 20:02:52 If we can get an idea of who is presenting what and in what style May 05 20:02:58 qgil, .) May 05 20:02:59 then we can plan around it... May 05 20:03:18 ok lbt: schedule skeleton coming tonight May 05 20:03:26 + scale... presentation to 50 people != 5 people around a screen May 05 20:03:50 lbt, i learnt how to present to a large audience :) just do it to one person May 05 20:03:50 * lbt volunteers something on OBS (obviously) May 05 20:04:13 quim, it was nokia that arranged the projector for the summit (overhead one) can it be there again? May 05 20:04:16 lcuk ... style + content differ with scale May 05 20:04:32 and... please, please record some of the talks :) May 05 20:04:47 there are different spaces: auditorium (150 people) + 1 Mozilla room + 1 maemo.org room + 1 Maemo/Nokia room (40 seats each) May 05 20:04:53 VDVsx, that means we should contact jamie and see if hes available May 05 20:05:13 lcuk projectors are not a problem in the ITU! May 05 20:05:23 are star fleet uniforms supplied or do we need to bring our own? May 05 20:05:44 you're ET, not starfleet May 05 20:05:52 qgil: ah - and we'd be mostly in the mozilla/maemo/maemo-nokia rooms? May 05 20:05:52 yes yes May 05 20:06:08 * Stskeeps isn't entirely sure how it'd look yet :) May 05 20:06:09 lcuk, he is in the attending list, I think May 05 20:06:17 how many people are expected to come? May 05 20:06:21 Stskeeps: ah no, tactually the default place is the hall, with plenty of tables and chairs to sit and hack May 05 20:06:25 good VDVsx ill send him a mail and make sure May 05 20:06:26 qgil: fantastic :) May 05 20:06:38 those rooms are for BOFs, team discussions and other loud activities :) May 05 20:06:39 * Stskeeps misses old demo scene parties May 05 20:06:45 * zakkm sees stskeeps running around the main room .. MER HAS ___!!!!!!! May 05 20:06:51 do we have a list of current participants May 05 20:07:03 The Maemo/Nokia room could be to offer specific support to SDK users May 05 20:07:08 zakkm: .. yeah, that pretty much qualifies how insane i am :) May 05 20:07:14 spare international power plug adaptors May 05 20:07:29 lcuk the list of confirmed participants is in the wiki page May 05 20:07:30 lbt: good point May 05 20:07:47 gotcha - was hunting for ages May 05 20:07:56 various private wifi routers? May 05 20:07:56 http://wiki.maemo.org/Mozilla_Maemo_Danish_Weekend/Participants - forgot that I created a separate page May 05 20:08:17 nobody from canada :P May 05 20:08:25 lbt: i'll take my fonera along, :P May 05 20:08:40 spare N800 batteries May 05 20:08:46 * Stskeeps ponders idly how heavy his backpack will be. May 05 20:08:47 international power plug adapters? I never get them when flying to UK/US :) May 05 20:09:03 Stskeeps, its just down the road for you May 05 20:09:06 * johnx needs to get a line on a laptop to borrow O_o; May 05 20:09:21 johnx: n800 and bluetooth keyboard, that's all you need May 05 20:09:21 :P May 05 20:09:24 extra long vga cables May 05 20:09:39 is there seriously going to be free maemo hats? May 05 20:10:03 perhaps maemo.org hats if you convince the council ;) May 05 20:10:04 I think better with multiple windows up at once. I guess I can just array the zaurus, wii+tv and n800 out in front of me... May 05 20:10:06 oh no Stskeeps that bluetooth keyboard caused liqbase death! May 05 20:10:08 zakkm: we're all shaving our heads and having Mer tatoos May 05 20:10:32 i want a maemo.org hat to put up in my room :D May 05 20:10:35 alright, I'll go to edit that wiki page right now May 05 20:10:50 thanks for the braindrop! May 05 20:11:00 seperate content May 05 20:11:01 yw :) May 05 20:11:05 from practicals May 05 20:12:58 ive just mailed jamie May 05 20:13:47 zakkm, Tim should be working on shirts. May 05 20:14:17 if shipping isnt much, and i paid shipping, would someone mail me one? :D May 05 20:14:20 qgil, on the participants thing im not starred for sponsorship (*) am i getting there under my own steam or sharing a suitcase with some others? May 05 20:15:17 lcuk, I persuaded them to send me first class.... you're swimming. May 05 20:15:27 the 24 hour boat is a blast May 05 20:15:27 :P May 05 20:15:42 * lcuk mutters something about bloody vikings ;) May 05 20:18:03 Stskeeps, how far is it for ou travelling May 05 20:18:26 lcuk: 3h30m or so May 05 20:18:27 lcuk you need to apply for sponsorship as said in the web May 05 20:18:39 http://wiki.maemo.org/Mozilla_Maemo_Danish_Weekend/Participants updated May 05 20:18:46 45 participants confirmed now May 05 20:21:58 zakkm, these are likely to be specific to this meetup. May 05 20:22:07 zakkm, plan is to have a real swag store at some point. May 05 20:22:25 can someone agree that the browser is slightly unstable? May 05 20:22:31 hmm i am sure i already filled that in once, nm ive applied again May 05 20:22:40 radic, yeah internet explorer is a pain in the ass May 05 20:22:43 it crashes all the time May 05 20:23:09 lcuk: i mean that on my n800 May 05 20:23:51 i dunno it always seemed fine with me - but i dont use it so often May 05 20:47:13 http://wiki.maemo.org/Mozilla_Maemo_Danish_Weekend#Accommodation updated May 05 20:47:23 http://wiki.maemo.org/Mozilla_Maemo_Danish_Weekend/Accommodation created May 05 20:47:38 75eur per night is alott :P May 05 20:47:52 less if you share May 05 20:48:06 that sleep in heaven looks better May 05 20:48:19 People just love to have forums for their little pet projects. . . . May 05 20:48:19 17.47 eur, free wifi, locker and such May 05 20:48:23 zakkm: in terms of comfort, cabinn is nicer :P May 05 20:48:35 your barely be there though May 05 20:48:37 except sleep May 05 20:49:05 If people would move DOCUMENTATION to the wiki nobody would have to dig around in subforums to find stuff. May 05 20:50:09 hehe, shared room planning May 05 20:50:27 * Stskeeps marks himself availiable for a roommate :P May 05 20:50:29 i call shared room with STSKEEPS! :D May 05 20:50:33 quim... do you snore May 05 20:50:42 lbt: only at night May 05 20:51:19 ah, perfect hotel spot May 05 20:51:20 oh, the MicroB browser is proprietary May 05 20:51:20 * suihkulokki wonders if it is a great idea to have the party *before* hacking event :P May 05 20:51:22 right next to metro May 05 20:51:23 i can see it now, everyone in their rooms on their nokia :) May 05 20:51:56 suihkulokki: i'm pondering to share with a jetlagged USian or something :P May 05 20:51:57 CutMeOwnThroat, the UI is closed, MicroB is actually the engine, which is Gecko-based and open. May 05 20:52:16 CutMeOwnThroat, the UI will be open in Fremantle. May 05 20:52:38 Fremantle? May 05 20:52:46 I think rm_you and I will probably end up sharing a room May 05 20:52:52 * johnx changes the wiki May 05 20:52:59 have you guys ever seen eachother in person before? May 05 20:53:03 ~fremantle May 05 20:53:10 zakkm, we went to the same highschool :) May 05 20:53:10 zakkm: nop May 05 20:53:17 (at least i didn't) May 05 20:53:18 google says it's a town :) May 05 20:53:22 zakkm, rm_you and I, I mean :) May 05 20:53:24 http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Maemo_roadmap/Fremantle May 05 20:53:27 shame zach cant make it May 05 20:53:32 Maemo 5 May 05 20:53:41 ok May 05 20:53:55 i want a tshirt :( May 05 20:54:22 zakkm, go triage some bugs. That's how I got mine. ;) May 05 20:54:36 you got a maemo tshirt? May 05 20:55:32 Yeah, one of the real maemo (lowercase m) ones, too. ;) May 05 20:55:48 lucky May 05 20:56:14 Stskeeps: do you mind moving the content of http://wiki.maemo.org/Mozilla_Maemo_Danish_Weekend#Mer to an own page, I want to convert those Focus areas in a simple bullet list with links, thanks! May 05 20:56:44 qgil: yep - sec May 05 20:57:50 well, tempting to see how those things do on a x86 desktop... guess I'll run matchbox-window-manager at sometime :) May 05 20:58:38 although single-window is probably not so great there May 05 20:59:37 Hi qgil o/ May 05 20:59:47 qgil: edited, feel free to edit as needed May 05 20:59:48 how's it going in crazy Finland? May 05 21:01:26 Stskeeps: thanks! May 05 21:01:51 dear lazyweb, wher can I find the list of Maemo projects approved for GSOC? May 05 21:02:08 hi crashanddie May 05 21:02:10 http://wiki.maemo.org/GSoC_2009/Projects May 05 21:02:15 lovely May 05 21:02:36 #maemo :: faster than google May 05 21:02:55 lcuk, #maemo - usually just a proxy for Google. :P May 05 21:03:21 indeed, you even act as the spell checker :D May 05 21:03:51 no, that's just GA's usual pedantic self May 05 21:04:03 google answered with thi May 05 21:04:19 anyway, more drugs needed, bbl May 05 21:04:21 Without pedantic people like me, there'd just be anarchy. :P May 05 21:04:28 lol, how to detect if someone has no idea what so ever who you are: They reply to "hi", but don't answer the "how are you" question :) May 05 21:04:31 s https://wiki.maemo.org/Special:Random May 05 21:04:43 Drove past a schoolzone today and a few of the students were wearing masks. May 05 21:04:47 Swine flu insanity. May 05 21:04:51 haha May 05 21:04:55 you're going to die May 05 21:05:08 That's it, your life's over May 05 21:05:14 I hope you enjoyed the ride :) May 05 21:05:34 As soon as I find out I'm sick I'm flying over there to cough on you. May 05 21:05:49 I have 3 boxes of tamiflu :P May 05 21:05:58 I take pre-emptive shots just to be sure May 05 21:06:19 But it's swine flu! May 05 21:06:29 GeneralAntilles: where in the world you live? May 05 21:06:42 egypt May 05 21:06:42 zakkm, hostmask. May 05 21:08:58 zakkm, figure it out yet? May 05 21:09:04 ? May 05 21:09:10 where you live? May 05 21:09:19 /whois GeneralAntilles May 05 21:09:24 ohh May 05 21:09:24 who set us up the bomb! May 05 21:09:27 didnt think of that May 05 21:09:27 You're learning something new today. :P May 05 21:09:43 noo i know host address's its just i didnt think of checking May 05 21:09:49 addresses May 05 21:09:53 i just saw your story and thinking where you live May 05 21:09:58 yeahh im tired :D May 05 21:10:03 please use the apostrophes in the right places May 05 21:10:11 didn't takes one, addresses doesn't ;) May 05 21:10:42 Stskeeps: for what is the browserd required? May 05 21:10:54 radic, the interwebs :) May 05 21:11:37 and I'm the pedantic one May 05 21:11:49 crashanddie: and what can i do if it crashed? May 05 21:18:06 http://wiki.maemo.org/Mozilla_Maemo_Danish_Weekend#Spaces created May 05 21:18:24 Main Hall equipped with tables, chairs and power chords May 05 21:18:30 qgil: what are power chords? May 05 21:18:53 cords :P May 05 21:19:27 * Stskeeps heads to bed May 05 21:19:34 where developers hang around, chat and hack. (free!) <--- since when did you pay to hangout, chat or hack ? May 05 21:19:43 zakkm: linux cafe? May 05 21:19:44 :P May 05 21:19:51 you dont have to buy anything May 05 21:20:44 and thats for food May 05 21:22:04 zakkm: actually we are going to place a guy like this one in each table: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MstE-avZp8w May 05 21:23:28 qgil: starting to sound like a fun event May 05 21:24:14 zakkm: "(free!)" is after the dot - anyway you native English speakers can edit the page at will (and the rest of humans too) May 05 21:24:55 english isnt your first language? cool May 05 21:25:31 zakkm: there are two languages in the row before English for m May 05 21:25:33 e May 05 21:25:53 qgil: thats awesome, i can only speak english May 05 21:26:09 which sucks cause i want to go into real estate, and i realize that fact will hurt May 05 21:26:29 qgil: ö hi! May 05 21:26:41 zakkm, eh, plenty of time to learn other languages. You can pick them up quick with a little immersion to help you May 05 21:27:14 for instance PERL, mind you May 05 21:27:31 meant speaking languages :P May 05 21:27:46 ♡ Perl May 05 21:27:49 johnx: i suppose so, takes a long time to learn a language though May 05 21:28:19 zakkm: for some it takes only a (good) girl/boy/friend May 05 21:28:23 * zakkm is so glad he failed programming in school :P May 05 21:28:43 in my case, a job definitely helps May 05 21:28:53 qgil, yup. there are other strategies too, like getting yourself moved to some other part of the world :) May 05 21:29:05 a friend of mine is korean , and he said he would help me if i were to try and learn it, im stupid cause i should of took a language in my highskool / learn from people gradually May 05 21:29:15 unable to do that though ;p May 05 21:29:17 move May 05 21:29:34 I want to move to sweden to learn the language May 05 21:29:37 how would a job help? with speaking language? May 05 21:29:41 (at least, that's what I tell my gf) May 05 21:29:53 hah May 05 21:29:56 zakkm, if everyone at your job speaks a different language, you'll learn it or get fired :D May 05 21:30:05 johnx, not true May 05 21:30:11 cant pick up the language that quickly :D May 05 21:30:17 constant motivation is the hardest part of learning a language May 05 21:30:24 zakkm, have you ever tried? May 05 21:30:40 you never know what you can do until you're *really* motivated :) May 05 21:30:41 having a job where everyone speaks a different language, no May 05 21:30:52 im still at my first few jobs stage ;p May 05 21:30:53 johnx, I've worked in countries that were non-english, but the work language was english, can assure you my ass was never on the line ;) May 05 21:31:02 there is plenty of Spanish people going to London to learn English, getting a job in a kitchen and ending up learning... all kinds of languages from other non-English spakers in the same kitchen May 05 21:31:15 thats cool May 05 21:31:24 spanish <-> english isn't too bad May 05 21:31:28 i live in Toronto, canada by the way, for the purpose of this chat May 05 21:31:38 qgil, problem with "non-qualified workers" is that most of the time they end up staying within their own community, and it gets pretty hard to learn the actual language, considering they never speak it May 05 21:31:41 english <-> $asian_language is generally hard May 05 21:31:55 whole new language system May 05 21:31:56 johnx, i spoke with omweather author for just 2 days, it was his first ever time speaking in english, obviously things were hard but i was astounded by how much we managed to convey in that time May 05 21:32:03 qgil, if you are an educated worker, you'll have bases that will allow you to communicate on a primary level, learning from there is a lot easier May 05 21:32:08 (hes russian) May 05 21:32:23 crashanddie: this is why I forced myself to share flat with brits when moving to London May 05 21:32:30 london is awesome :D May 05 21:32:42 i was there for like 3 days few years ago May 05 21:32:56 lcuk, yup. I still maintain that knowing "how to communicate" is a skill that's independent of language May 05 21:32:59 you guys move around alot eh? May 05 21:33:04 doesnt that hurt financially? May 05 21:33:21 zakkm: in my case staying where I was would have hurt probably more May 05 21:33:21 qgil, if I go to Nokia, and yell Hyvä iltaa! at 9AM, only if we have a common language will you be able to tell me "that's for evenings dude" and will I learn May 05 21:33:37 agreed johnx, at first it took hand waving and going slowly, but we found the common ground and adapted to each other May 05 21:33:39 Spain is beating records on unemployment as we speak... May 05 21:33:57 qgil: you from spain? May 05 21:34:00 Nokia is not the best place to learn Finnish in Finland, really May 05 21:34:12 "Quim Gil" now there's a spanish name May 05 21:34:22 i once knew a guy in Finland :( May 05 21:34:32 went to serve in the army, never heard from him again May 05 21:34:32 Quim is a Catalan name, to be precise. :) May 05 21:34:46 Nokia is about the worst place to learn anything in Finland :) May 05 21:34:55 oh right, you're catalan, right, forgot about that May 05 21:35:10 nokia is centered in finland? May 05 21:35:18 zakkm, get back in your cave May 05 21:35:23 yes sir May 05 21:35:24 (time to go back to editing the wiki page) May 05 21:35:25 nah, it's centered in Japan ;-) May 05 21:35:46 Right geographic oddity right there. May 05 21:35:58 wikipedia says Finland :D May 05 21:36:10 You trust wikipedia? ;) May 05 21:36:38 sadly May 05 21:36:42 its a problem of my youth May 05 21:37:20 its jsut so good May 05 21:39:46 actually Nokia is not centered in Finland but in Espoo May 05 21:40:38 espoo is where the barriers between dimensions are thin May 05 21:40:41 and the monsters leak thru May 05 21:42:32 * qgil feels some boredom starting a table for a schedule in a wiki (or plain HTML actually) May 05 21:43:10 Don't talk to me about wiki boredom. :P May 05 21:44:25 I need to get X-Fade to fix the amboxes. . . . May 05 21:49:06 qgil, btw, the amsterdam venues that you saw are fine enough for the summit ? May 05 21:50:27 yes, both the WesterGas and the Felix Meritis make merits for a good Summit May 05 21:50:40 the problem is now on Nokia's plate, really May 05 21:50:57 I will report more deeply, but since you ask May 05 21:51:34 the thing is that we are looking at the calendar and roadmap seeing what to announce when May 05 21:51:46 :D May 05 21:52:18 and it could be that 11-13 is not an ideal date actually May 05 21:52:32 maybe after OSiM would be better May 05 21:52:41 or even in mid october.............. May 05 21:52:54 so we need to decide some things internally about dates and announcements May 05 21:53:11 and then talk to you about when would be better for the summit May 05 21:53:12 Now that sounds bad. :/ May 05 21:54:05 mid october could mean to start talking about Harmattan... May 05 21:54:07 yo May 05 21:54:12 any of you guys want a free domain? May 05 21:54:30 * VDVsx start crying, mid October = thesis presentation :( May 05 21:54:42 mid october, so far away :D May 05 21:54:43 don't panic May 05 21:54:48 ehhehe May 05 21:55:04 the plan is still 11-13 and we would have good content and venue for that May 05 21:55:22 at least will be at a weekend I assume :P May 05 21:55:32 but there might be a possibility to have something more/better just 1-4 weeks later, and it's worth considering May 05 21:56:32 remember that we took th 11-13 sep just because of OSiM world, now we have more elements to think about May 05 21:57:58 the 1-4 extra weeks might help more people arranging some travel plans based on stuff announced before May 05 21:59:36 what to do? one option is to have a progression from the previous summit, having a similar audience + some more people and have something basically around Maemo 5 May 05 21:59:37 or May 05 22:00:10 another option is to give a bit more time for more stuff, get a wider audience and have more Harmattan flesh in place May 05 22:00:33 any many other possibilities in between of course May 05 22:01:45 make sense, if you guys plan to announce maemo related stuff at OSIM, but IMO I think maemo 5 should take a lot of attention, not need to wait for harmattan May 05 22:01:57 Be nice to get a meetup outside of Europe May 05 22:02:14 * zakkm just got 2 year unlimited hosting from dreamhost and is willing to give ppl ftp access to upload maemo/mer/whatever related files May 05 22:02:49 VDVsx: remember that the prvious Maemo Summit was a good place to start sharing the "Fremantle vision" May 05 22:03:13 by September/October Fremantle should be all set when it comes to vision May 05 22:03:24 I hope so, lol May 05 22:04:20 GAN800: outside of Europe meaning USA? May 05 22:04:28 * zakkm thinks there will be a n900 prototype at the next maemo summit/danishweekend May 05 22:04:46 yeahhh Toronto, canada would be nice! :P May 05 22:04:52 qgil, eventually, but I'm sure people elsewhere would also appreciate having something there. May 05 22:05:41 GAN800: and us too, but we need more momentum and critical mass in the land of iPhone and Android, I think May 05 22:06:42 i dont know about there, but everyone here i know mostly has a ipod touch/iphone May 05 22:07:06 Android is all hype. Nobody actually owns Android devices. May 05 22:07:11 Here, anyway. May 05 22:07:27 * zakkm never seen anything android in person ever and lives in a huge city. May 05 22:07:32 specially in the US, hype is half of your product ;) May 05 22:07:39 I've seen a G1 once. May 05 22:07:44 See tons of iPhones, though. May 05 22:07:54 GAN800, saw a fair number at LFNW, but saw just about as many freerunners ;) May 05 22:08:23 also you guys are tech people, your have a higher chance of seeing such gadgets May 05 22:08:52 johnx, yeah, bad sample. :P May 05 22:08:57 East coast, too. May 05 22:09:22 Er, I'm East, you're West. May 05 22:10:05 qgil, don't knowing the maemo roadmap at deep, I think it will all depends when fremantle will be released, i.e if freematle is out in June/July, I agreed with you (we should wait for harmattan), if the fremantle device only hit the shelf's in August/Sept, I think it will worth keep the current dates, because fremantle will still fresh at this time May 05 22:10:32 GeneralAntilles, thanks for clearning that up :) May 05 22:13:47 hey, about the maemo microphone - how come it can only record khz? what chip is on there? May 05 22:14:01 anyone have a old geocities account? May 05 22:14:25 zakkm, are they owned by yahoo now? I think I had one at one point... May 05 22:14:32 they always were May 05 22:14:54 they shut it down like last week, and dreamhost is offering 2 yr free domain + unlimited web hosting to all old geocities members May 05 22:14:54 yeah, think I have one, but I don't know the password ... May 05 22:14:55 VDVsx: too many variables at the moment and I can't discuss here most of them, sorry :( May 05 22:15:07 zakkm, !! May 05 22:15:16 "$214 value" May 05 22:15:22 as said 11-13 is still the plan and this is why yesterday (actually now 2 days ago) I went to Amsterdam to look for venues with Kees and Nils May 05 22:15:25 Niels May 05 22:15:48 you have to change a page to add some string, and then use it as a promocode when register for dreamhost, and it brings it to $0 May 05 22:15:49 qgil, I know, just expressing my side/opinion :) May 05 22:16:55 johnx, confusing, right? ;) May 05 22:17:26 yeah, if you weren't here to remind me where I am I'd probably get confused and end up in Japan or something May 05 22:17:45 Ehehe May 05 22:17:56 * GAN800 is addled again today May 05 22:18:28 20 minutes for prsentations/demos? not lightning - not extended - not taking too much time from your work May 05 22:19:10 wow, alot of work has been put into this event May 05 22:19:16 VDVsx: even knowing all the internal info is not clear to have a side/opion :) May 05 22:19:17 GAN800, for me, is pacific coast and Atlantic coast :P easier May 05 22:19:18 I'd love to see Fremantle come with a spellcheck framework. May 05 22:19:38 this is why I'm concentrating on Copenhagen now because there is no 3 without 1 and 2 (Desktop Summit) May 05 22:19:48 GAN800, gtk already has one May 05 22:20:10 VDVsx, 'Atlantic coast represent!' doesn't work so well. :P May 05 22:20:12 * zakkm would love to see fremantle ui/theme work on n800 May 05 22:20:30 qgil, 20 mins! longer than last time :) May 05 22:20:31 GAN800, lol May 05 22:20:34 johnx, the I'd like to see Fremantle come with a dictionary or somethimg. May 05 22:20:47 * lcuk starts writing now :P May 05 22:21:01 GAN800, not sure if it's just a compile time option, or something that happened in a later gtk, or what May 05 22:21:04 lcuk: mmm nw you make think of 15 May 05 22:21:07 s/the/then/ s/img/ing/ May 05 22:21:42 heh - you have made me nervous already! May 05 22:22:04 15 min + 5 min for Q&A sounds fine May 05 22:22:12 lcuk's talk is 1 hour and nobody's allowed to laugh. :P May 05 22:22:19 heh May 05 22:22:24 * zakkm thinks 5min wont be enough for Q&A May 05 22:22:37 btw, on a related topic - is there a SIMPLE dictation program for n8x0 - i have one on my phone which "just works" but i want one for nokia May 05 22:22:42 we could never get mic working May 05 22:22:50 White Stork May 05 22:23:08 * lcuk practices his Northern May 05 22:24:02 Quim, you have a red phone to Ville re #3602? May 05 22:25:32 GAN800: I think this one will get sorted out May 05 22:26:09 Alternatively I think we should get andre__ a stick to beat people with. May 05 22:26:17 GAN800: Ville probably doesn't have a confirmed answer yet but Fremantle is integrated in a way much more modular and customizable, so it could be done May 05 22:26:30 * GAN800 should look at the bugzilla report cards again. May 05 22:26:58 I agre Ville could report more statuses even if the thing is not decided yet May 05 22:27:32 Shouting into the dark is tiresome and wasteful of everybody's time and bandwidth. May 05 22:27:49 how much time for Mer in the auditorium? 15 or more? May 05 22:28:12 GAN800: this darkness takes me also plenty of time so yes, I agree May 05 22:28:15 say 15 for now quim, then like last time we can adjust as required May 05 22:28:32 i think time was halved as additional ones came onboard May 05 22:28:43 but at least you have a baseline May 05 22:29:34 lcuk: but hre is different: we don't have a schedule to fill since those activities are complementary to the main purpose of meeting and work on your own projects and surroundings May 05 22:29:58 good point May 05 22:30:47 anyone willing to give me a google voice invite? :D May 05 22:31:46 you're invited (; May 05 22:31:59 lol May 05 22:32:05 i heard you can do invites, like gmail does May 05 22:32:11 i want to try it on tablet :P May 05 22:32:29 good luck finding someone who uses it May 05 22:32:38 nobody uses? May 05 22:32:48 I haven't seen any invites May 05 22:33:04 skype has the only people I know who use voip May 05 22:33:54 Voicemail transcription is fairly epic. May 05 22:34:12 skype on iphone i think changes alot :P May 05 22:35:14 I think they closed off invites for right now. I expect them to do more with it later though May 05 22:36:07 im vanishing anyway \o gnite qgil, gan vdv johnx etc May 05 22:36:15 'night lcuk :) May 05 22:36:26 night lcuk May 05 22:41:02 gnite lcuk May 05 22:43:11 http://wiki.maemo.org/Mozilla_Maemo_Danish_Weekend#Schedule May 05 22:43:40 so hopefully the page is much better now based on your feedback some hours ago May 05 22:44:14 if someone could add some captions of the pictures of the venue available, that would be great May 05 22:44:28 I'm falling asleep right nowwwwwwwww May 05 22:44:43 Later May 05 22:45:11 qgil, isn't possible to stay at night in the 'hacking hall' ? May 05 22:45:30 VDVsx: er... I don't think so May 05 22:45:35 lol May 05 22:45:56 So no leaving drunk hackers lying around. ;) May 05 22:46:35 but I see your point and actually there is a students lounge/bar nearby that is open during the night (don't know exact timing) May 05 22:46:55 and I wouldn 't be surprised if they would be under the campus wifi cloud May 05 22:47:01 I'll ask, good point May 05 22:47:01 normally those partys are 24hours of programming (or more for some strong guys :P) May 05 22:47:49 yes yes, we need to think something - agred May 05 22:48:21 not for the 24h but at least something between 18:00-23:59 May 05 22:49:01 Sounds to me like VDVsx is volunteering to have everybody convene in his room. :P May 05 22:49:36 combination of night public transport is something to look at May 05 22:49:59 GAN800, I will not attend :P May 05 22:50:10 we don't want hackers without money to pay a taxi realzing while compiling that it's 2am and there is no easy way to go back to the hotel May 05 22:51:55 qgil, check with the hotel its bar opening times and laptop allowances ;) May 05 22:51:56 qgil, yup, It should be a problem, I went to some hacking partys and normally we stay in the building until morning (of course older people leave earlier) May 05 22:52:29 qgil, taxi at DK should be not very cheap May 05 22:53:16 or else im sure theres some all nite cafes May 05 22:53:21 * VDVsx and friends payed 30 € in amsterdam for a taxi ride :P May 05 22:54:41 * CutMeOwnThroat hits qgil with a tranquilizer arrow on exit May 05 23:01:24 doesnt anyone take public transit down there? May 05 23:04:23 gnite folks :) May 05 23:05:52 night VDVsx May 05 23:10:38 lcuk :) May 05 23:10:46 hows it goin May 05 23:11:27 painfully thanks May 05 23:11:55 hhehe, you seemed lonely from your post, so I thouhgt I would say hello May 05 23:12:05 wooo hooo May 05 23:12:09 heh its been bustling tonight May 05 23:12:11 it is quiet in here May 05 23:12:15 i meant in general May 05 23:12:23 i almost added a footnote May 05 23:12:55 ur on a bit of a crusade at the moment anyway May 05 23:13:01 sudden burst of energy :P May 05 23:13:04 which one May 05 23:13:17 lull at work :) May 05 23:13:39 all places, ahhh May 05 23:14:10 you got the fremantle sdk running? May 05 23:14:24 no, I am waiting for hardware May 05 23:14:34 why dont you try qoles trick :) May 05 23:14:36 its dead simple May 05 23:14:45 whats that? May 05 23:14:46 just start the sdk up and put a vnc server on it May 05 23:14:52 then use the vnc client on your tablet May 05 23:15:07 hmmm May 05 23:15:14 you can get the "feel" of it and see how your apps will look and stuff May 05 23:15:23 its not perfect, but its better than pretending its a touchscreen May 05 23:15:28 hehe May 05 23:16:07 I have never run anything graphically from the SDK May 05 23:16:31 I compiled 100+ apps then tarball to tablet May 05 23:16:32 hehe May 05 23:16:36 the first time i experienced it was when qwerty12 shared it from his vnc May 05 23:16:45 my home linux machine wont make it May 05 23:16:52 wont work with it ^ May 05 23:17:15 with the VNC, or the SDK ? May 05 23:17:17 i do all my compilation on tablet too :) gcc runs nicely May 05 23:17:30 the sdk on my laptop runs at about 5sec / frame May 05 23:17:43 Its handy for small stuff, It should be much better on the next hardware May 05 23:17:56 yeah im hoping so May 05 23:18:04 me too May 05 23:18:05 ive got an idea about distribution May 05 23:18:11 and workflow May 05 23:18:30 chop out scratchbox for all but the biggest stuff for those willing to try :) May 05 23:18:56 *cough*mer*cough* May 05 23:19:23 :) johnx its also gotta work on the default install May 05 23:19:43 but yes 100% agree, mer allows MUCH more May 05 23:19:49 that's Nokia's choice if they want to pick up using the openSuse builder as well May 05 23:20:03 That came along at exactly the right moment for us May 05 23:20:19 are any major changes expected when the SDK comes out of beta? or is it all just bugs fixes left? May 05 23:20:26 yeah you lot seem to have been getting teeth into it nicely May 05 23:20:33 though if Nokia keeps ash+busybox I doubt building deb packages on the tablet will be very fun in Maemo May 05 23:20:37 i dunno pb May 05 23:20:53 I've decided I'm not buying the next tablet until I know for certain it is 100% open May 05 23:21:04 ok luke-jr. no one is forcing you May 05 23:21:08 as johnx says mer is already shape using those, so momentum says the longer they leave it the less chance May 05 23:21:25 I bought 770, 800, 810, and I will buy a whatever the hell it will be called May 05 23:21:35 luke-jr, so you dont want flash or skype or maps? May 05 23:21:41 lcuk: no May 05 23:21:46 fair enough :) May 05 23:21:51 lcuk: you'd need to bribe me to use them May 05 23:21:59 and I don't mean the software that is included May 05 23:21:59 no i wouldnt May 05 23:22:03 I couldn't care less what that is May 05 23:22:03 lcuk, it only became feasible for us very recently I think, and Nokia had already decided on scratchbox for fremantle long before that May 05 23:22:13 just as long as I can install my own stuff that is Free only May 05 23:22:13 yeah May 05 23:22:17 they have a choice for hermatten though May 05 23:23:04 lcuk: my Zaurus which I haven't touched for over a year has a newer kernel than the N810 ;p May 05 23:23:18 luke-jr, because people spent a lot of time reverse engineering it May 05 23:23:23 in practical terms though, what does that gain? May 05 23:23:47 lcuk, continued userland upgrades in the long term. better performance in the short term May 05 23:23:58 it is an issue that will need to be addressed eventually May 05 23:24:03 johnx: my point wasn't that Sharp is better than Nokia, it's not May 05 23:24:38 luke-jr, I agree that we need a new kernel on the n8x0 hardware. We just need to dig up a kernel hacker and get them hooked :> May 05 23:24:54 the situation looks better for the omap3 though May 05 23:25:01 lcuk: in practical terms, my GPS takes over 30 minutes to first fix AFTER I've spent HOURS hacking at it because Nokia/TI refuses to give protocol info May 05 23:25:31 I think we need a fair use law that protocol specs need to be licensed automatically if buy hardware using it May 05 23:25:39 yeah May 05 23:25:51 luke-jr, thats not the same thing as having a newer kernel - i AGREE if it was open and someone with experience in the chipset can help it would be fixed May 05 23:25:55 but it requires both elements May 05 23:26:06 this "you can buy the GPS, but you need to spend weeks reverse engineering if you want to use it" is BS May 05 23:26:40 i didnt reverse engineer anything? May 05 23:26:46 todd happily directs tracy around May 05 23:26:52 traffic circles and everything May 05 23:26:53 luke-jr, the GPLv3 should help as it further "infects" more parts of the GNU/Linux userland ;) May 05 23:27:14 My gps works fine, and my bt gps works even better May 05 23:27:39 GPS receivers are actually standarized May 05 23:27:43 NMEA ftw May 05 23:27:57 both BT and RS-232 ones May 05 23:29:19 lcuk: you're using Nokia software; what if you want to use the GPS itself? May 05 23:29:33 AStorm: the GPS5300 inside N810 is non-standard May 05 23:29:48 GAH! May 05 23:29:49 kill... May 05 23:29:51 ? luke-jr we do use the gps? May 05 23:30:02 I suspect it is standard May 05 23:30:09 but connected to some weird bus, like SPI May 05 23:30:12 I am a maemo-mapper advocate myself May 05 23:30:26 btw, the gpsdriver makes it look like a BT GPS May 05 23:30:29 i can barely talk ive got my own map here lol May 05 23:30:50 * lcuk was banned from google maps whilst playing May 05 23:30:57 haha May 05 23:31:07 OpenStreet then? May 05 23:31:10 AStorm: it's on a serial port UART May 05 23:31:10 do they still offer the fre API? May 05 23:31:24 luke-jr, so it *has* to be standard May 05 23:31:24 lcuk: by using the GPS, I mean talking directly to the hardware May 05 23:31:29 AStorm: nope May 05 23:31:38 AStorm: proprietary gpsdriver blob converts it to NMEA in userspace May 05 23:31:40 otherwise it's not a GPS, but some GPS-like whizbang May 05 23:31:44 YUCK. May 05 23:31:46 luke-jr, i thought all gps stuff was serial? May 05 23:31:48 I used to be signed up through google and they allow you to create maps from them May 05 23:31:55 ie nothing has direct access to the hardware May 05 23:31:55 AStorm: gpsd dev suspects it is a specially designed dsp ;) May 05 23:31:59 what idiot thought it's a good idea? May 05 23:32:11 AStorm: TI May 05 23:32:15 ah, you say it's another ARM7? May 05 23:32:21 nifty reuse May 05 23:32:25 probably decided they could save some money May 05 23:32:32 still, the antenna is junk May 05 23:32:35 to make it worse, the blob depends on GNOME libs and requires a user named "user" May 05 23:32:36 and the algorithm is junk too May 05 23:32:40 that's how these things start May 05 23:32:42 http://code.google.com/apis/maps/ May 05 23:32:49 yeah pb May 05 23:32:54 but, if it is ARM... May 05 23:33:03 and Nokia refuses to modify/abstract the protocol even May 05 23:33:03 if i was gonna go further than an hour of curiosity i would do May 05 23:33:04 and we find out how to access the darned antenna May 05 23:33:05 bbiab May 05 23:33:13 but its just something else i wanted to test May 05 23:33:15 heh May 05 23:33:16 then we can make it suck much less May 05 23:33:26 TI NDAs suck May 05 23:33:34 a lot. May 05 23:33:43 * lcuk senses automatic internet download and displaying is gonna be important May 05 23:34:06 luke-jr, what protocol? May 05 23:34:12 I suspect the gpsdriver is the gps. May 05 23:34:28 just a few added opcodes to some generic ARM7 May 05 23:34:31 just like the DSP May 05 23:34:46 or possibly like IVA2 May 05 23:34:55 in OMAP3 May 05 23:36:23 AStorm: GPS5300 proprietary protocol May 05 23:36:33 "protocol" May 05 23:36:42 if i just reupload my avatar does it get scaled yet May 05 23:36:42 AStorm: what gpsdriver talks over the serial port May 05 23:36:45 im sick of peeking May 05 23:36:45 more like ARM7 instructions? May 05 23:37:02 AStorm: more like ttyS0 communications May 05 23:37:08 ah, you mean the bunch of data they're sending May 05 23:37:12 AStorm: I haven't disassembled yet, but I see no reason it'd use instructions May 05 23:37:16 I'm talking what the gps actually is May 05 23:37:32 I think the actual GPS is just a tiny app connected to the antenna May 05 23:37:50 something extremely easy May 05 23:38:26 then the real algorithms are in userspace May 05 23:39:00 and that the actual GPS "propietary" protocol is implemented on another ARM subunit May 05 23:39:46 a bunch of microcode, maybe May 05 23:40:09 now, getting at that w/o the docs might be close to impossible May 05 23:42:33 "High performance: The GPS5300 NaviLink 4.0 solution enables a rapid time to first fix (TTFF) from weak satellite signals, exceeding the GPS requirements for 3GPP and 3GPP2 operation." May 05 23:42:35 ha,ha,ha May 05 23:43:12 yes, it is a simple software radio specialized for GPS May 05 23:43:31 * NB requires a 12 foot antenna May 05 23:44:03 heh. I thought you were laughing about the "rapid time to first fix" :) May 05 23:44:22 I was, and the other point too May 05 23:44:26 it is a dumb antenna May 05 23:44:51 so we could actually code better noise/echo rejection algorithm for it May 05 23:45:03 i wonder if using it in the car actually boosts the signal if placed correctly in the window May 05 23:45:20 well, what did you expect them to say "The GPS5300 NaviLink 4.0 solution enables a painfully slow time to first fix, leaving your users frustrated and confused."? May 05 23:47:06 funny there's no actual docs about it May 05 23:47:14 propietary protocols of uselessness May 05 23:47:14 well, thatd be truth in advertising :) May 05 23:47:57 it's not *that* bad I suspect, but n810 antenna is suboptimal May 05 23:48:10 and the software algorithms are... poor May 05 23:48:31 to cut costs most of the "analog" path is actually digital components, increasing quantization noise May 05 23:49:03 "DRP: decreasing power usage at the cost of noise floor" May 05 23:50:29 AStorm: to be fair, when A-GPS is working, gpsdriver got me a fix quite fast May 05 23:50:57 that's 5s in good conditions May 05 23:51:06 no May 05 23:51:11 5 sec max TTFF is impossible May 05 23:51:12 which is quite slow :) May 05 23:51:17 that's not max May 05 23:51:19 that min May 05 23:51:23 ok May 05 23:51:32 max is infinity May 05 23:51:36 … May 05 23:51:40 max is 30s in ideal conditiosn May 05 23:51:56 in building obscured clean weather conditions, I got like 30-45s May 05 23:52:18 which is not good, considering that fairly slow SIRF3 could go in 3s May 05 23:52:25 w/o AGPS May 05 23:52:44 3s is impossible w/o AGPS… May 05 23:52:46 (MTK was instantaneous, btw) May 05 23:52:59 it is, because it caches last fix data May 05 23:53:04 that's AGPS May 05 23:53:06 that's not exactly AGPS May 05 23:53:16 close enough May 05 23:53:21 AGPS gives fresh ephemeris May 05 23:53:30 that last fix data is very useful May 05 23:53:31 this thing extrapolates from old ephemeris May 05 23:53:34 yes, it is :) May 05 23:53:35 oh! May 05 23:53:37 interesting May 05 23:53:46 got code for that? ;) May 05 23:53:54 no, sorry, it's hardware! May 05 23:53:56 :) May 05 23:54:03 AStorm: hardware can't do that May 05 23:54:10 sure it can May 05 23:54:26 firmware is not hardware May 05 23:54:34 whatever you say May 05 23:54:45 it is a DSP May 05 23:55:14 ok, so it actually can "extend" ephemeris data to about 20h May 05 23:55:38 I got tricked May 05 23:55:43 it wasn't a fresh fix then May 05 23:55:47 it was a "guess fix" May 05 23:56:11 (but AGPS is not a first fix either, really, heh) May 05 23:57:11 an actual first fix *inside a building* took 35s May 05 23:57:29 now, n810's can't do that May 05 23:57:33 I get better fixes inside a building May 05 23:57:35 mine can May 05 23:57:40 depends on the building, of course May 05 23:57:52 yes, that was good old brick May 05 23:57:57 with thick walls May 05 23:58:04 some meters from windows May 05 23:58:14 I wonder how it resolved all the echos to get a 2D fix May 05 23:59:11 anyway May 05 23:59:17 the TI chip is junk May 05 23:59:24 hm May 05 23:59:31 this toshiba laptop i got goes slow as shit :) May 05 23:59:33 compared to the macbook May 05 23:59:34 it's not even that power-efficient May 05 23:59:57 it's their low end chip. if they made it not crappy no one would buy a better one May 06 00:00:10 this is the chip they use to upsell people :P May 06 00:00:16 not low end - it's just old May 06 00:00:18 :> May 06 00:00:26 Nokia got it as a part of a package deal May 06 00:00:27 it's their cheapest one, isn't it? May 06 00:00:37 you get OMAP2 with all the additional stuff May 06 00:00:48 johnx, nope May 06 00:00:53 there are cheaper ones May 06 00:00:58 scary May 06 00:01:15 even my $20 (with contract) phone gets a gps fix faster May 06 00:01:48 it probably has some older SIRF May 06 00:01:54 those are cheap May 06 00:02:05 if course now it's not playing nice. heh. May 06 00:02:25 hey b-man May 06 00:02:45 hello, johnx :) May 06 00:02:48 meh, MTK kicks butt of all the other GPS receivers anyway May 06 00:02:58 but it's not a brand yet :) May 06 00:03:39 this is the longest I've ever seen it take to get a fix. Must be performance anxiety ... May 06 00:03:57 guess being stuck inside makes a difference :) May 06 00:04:07 oh, it just saw a satellite May 06 00:04:11 yes it does May 06 00:04:28 n810's doesn't see a sat from here even with AGPS May 06 00:04:42 it's 3m to a window, brick building though, and a lot of electric noise May 06 00:08:54 AStorm: i havent even gotten GPS to work while standing outside in the field, on a unclouded day May 06 00:09:04 AStorm: i stood there for 10 minutes, then it just felt to stupid to continue May 06 00:09:09 you mean n810's? May 06 00:09:15 n810's internal one yes May 06 00:09:29 w/o AGPS it usually sucked May 06 00:09:35 you had to move for it to get a fix May 06 00:09:38 agps? May 06 00:09:55 assisted - downloads ephemeris data from the internet May 06 00:10:09 (given approximate location) May 06 00:10:17 tbh, i've just thrown a BT GPS in my backpack May 06 00:10:21 :) May 06 00:10:25 it gets a fix in about 5 seconds May 06 00:10:35 which one btw? May 06 00:10:40 the wayfinder.com one May 06 00:10:40 * johnx needs to hack up my phone so my n800 can use its gps... May 06 00:10:44 mhm May 06 00:11:24 I think the internal GPS is lacking proper echo cancellation May 06 00:11:36 that's why when it's not moving, the times to fix are far longer May 06 00:12:00 O.o? May 06 00:12:17 yes, they are May 06 00:12:27 on the move, slow, it fixes much faster May 06 00:12:41 where slow means like <30 km/h May 06 00:13:06 even walking around is enough May 06 00:13:50 heck, I had it fix (w/o AGPS) in my pocket after 20s May 06 00:14:00 just because I was walking May 06 00:14:33 which was similar to fix times w/ AGPS on May 06 00:15:10 pretty sure AGPS-less in 20s is impossible May 06 00:17:24 it is possible, if the ephemeris is received fine in first attempt May 06 00:17:54 (the receiver can grab that from a few sats at once) May 06 00:18:09 (that's how the better GPS chips get TTFF so fast) May 06 00:18:45 AStorm: the ephemeris takes 14 minutes to receive May 06 00:18:48 over GPS May 06 00:18:55 full, yes May 06 00:18:55 from 1 sat May 06 00:19:04 but enough to get around, nope May 06 00:19:07 O.o May 06 00:20:57 you only need current position really May 06 00:21:14 so if you're lucky, a few sats will be broadcasting just that May 06 00:21:32 hmm May 06 00:26:09 one sat ephemeris transmission takes about 30s May 06 00:27:27 http://www.satellitetrackingsystem.co.uk/satellite_tracking_software.htm - if you really have to know :) May 06 00:35:21 so the minimum TTFF w/o the current almanac is 18s May 06 00:35:58 if you happen to receive from at least 3 different sats the correct 3 subframes May 06 00:38:04 w/ almanac you technically need only parts of subframes 2 and 3 May 06 00:38:31 that's 6-12s May 06 00:45:37 * b-man HATES his POS connection >:( May 06 00:45:54 I've come to the conclusion that what penguinbait really wants is a mass email spaming for every little bit of community minutia that happens to come up. May 06 00:46:44 b-man, is it Comcast? May 06 00:47:02 no, Version May 06 00:47:08 Ah, fun too. May 06 00:47:16 GeneralAntilles, you still having problems with comcast? it's gotten worse here, but it's impossible to search google for anyone with similar problems May 06 00:47:22 re: Verison May 06 00:47:25 Friend of mine got a 20/20 FiOS connection May 06 00:47:28 ...because there are too many people with problems... May 06 00:47:40 They dropped all connections every 15 minutes to keep people from running servers. May 06 00:47:42 yeah GA May 06 00:47:46 you pegged it May 06 00:47:52 I want 5 mailing lists May 06 00:47:56 hay penguinbait May 06 00:47:56 40 webpages May 06 00:48:01 50 wiki pages May 06 00:48:02 penguinbait, there are 3 mailing lists. May 06 00:48:29 johnx, dunno, I'm on Brighthouse now again. May 06 00:48:39 http://maemo.org/community/mailing-lists/ May 06 00:48:45 looks like 5 to me May 06 00:48:55 hey b-man May 06 00:49:12 penguinbait, those last ones were supposed to be kept secret from users because it's a Nokia conspiracy though May 06 00:49:25 penguinbait, I see the assertion made that these things were never discussed on itT, yet when Tim provides several topic links to refute that claim his post goes ignored. May 06 00:49:37 hey, you got to wag the dog May 06 00:49:39 penguinbait, the Newstyle testing thread was really quite long. May 06 00:50:09 Nobody was saying that it was not discussed May 06 00:50:25 Yeah, that seems to be exactly what I'm reading. May 06 00:50:40 we are just saying it better if more people know May 06 00:51:06 Your proposal seems to be spamming email for every possible thing anybody might possibly want to provide input on. May 06 00:51:21 i went to the museum of science and industry today May 06 00:51:28 i haven't been there since i was 6 May 06 00:51:33 it totally sucked :) May 06 00:51:48 There's a certain amount of due diligence required if you really want to input your opinion on every tiny thing. May 06 00:52:05 they had soem sort of harry potter exibit .. and i had no idea what harry potter had to do with science or industry May 06 00:52:09 GA, please go reread my first post May 06 00:52:15 you seem to be confused May 06 00:52:36 The closing of the subforums was discussed rather extensively. There was plenty of opportunity to provide input, the thread was very visible on itT May 06 00:52:39 so your saying you dont want community input GA? May 06 00:52:43 so where's your input? May 06 00:53:06 I juat saw a thread started today, I gave my input May 06 00:53:09 like it May 06 00:53:09 Only coming out now after a consensus has been reached and the work has been done. May 06 00:53:10 ? May 06 00:53:35 You gonna be ok? May 06 00:53:52 I responded to the post I saw May 06 00:54:05 I apparently didnt see the other one May 06 00:54:47 I'm not really sure what to say, if you're the type of person who likes to have an opinion about stuff like this, then you should probably be following the places where discussions take place. May 06 00:54:52 I guess thats what happens, when you have a job, and four kids, you miss some shit May 06 00:55:21 Which is why the big stuff is aggregated to the council blog. May 06 00:55:25 penguinbait, well, the onus isn't on other people to keep you informed. If you care, figure out how to keep up with this stuff. May 06 00:55:56 Thanks for the input Johnx May 06 00:56:01 sometimes it's the shit that's right in the middle of the kitchen floor that you step on when you get up in the middle of the night to pee then think that getting a snack would be a good idea and then when you get into the kitchen and step in something soft and smelly the snack looses all appeal May 06 00:56:02 I feel enlightened May 06 00:56:22 We can't play guessing games at what people are going to pitch fits over. May 06 00:56:40 penguinbait, sure. any time. enlightenment on request, satisfaction guaranteed May 06 00:56:40 I pitch fits over small animals getting into my cat food supply, just so you don't have to guess May 06 00:56:42 Look its a community, I am using my voice NOW to alter my community, and GA you are my inspiration May 06 00:56:57 don't like, tough fing shit fellas May 06 00:57:05 Input is generally solicited on -community or the maemo.org forum May 06 00:57:18 Thanks for the input GA May 06 00:57:20 I feel enlightened May 06 00:57:33 a peek into either about once or twice a week will keep you from missing anything you deem important. May 06 00:57:45 penguinbait, you're definitely providing a lot of input, but I doubt it's going to accomplish much without being a little more constructive and civil May 06 00:58:02 youd be surprised what is being accomplished May 06 00:58:16 maybe some might even be mad? oh well May 06 00:58:27 A lot of negativity is being thrown around to little use is what it looks like to me. May 06 00:58:45 here's what I see accomplished: People are getting stirred up. Someone will write a css theme to invert the colors May 06 00:58:46 thats because its mostly coming from you GA May 06 00:58:51 its easy to hear May 06 00:59:01 this could have been accomplished just as well without creating this huge shit storm May 06 00:59:02 LOL May 06 00:59:03 woooo May 06 00:59:10 * luke-jr flings some doo at johnx May 06 00:59:11 * b-man wonders if it is worth releasing Pdisk for maemo - i allrety have it built May 06 00:59:19 * johnx ignores luke-jr again May 06 00:59:23 pfft May 06 00:59:31 whats pdisk May 06 00:59:38 you're all being way too serious ;P May 06 01:00:00 penguinbait: Mac patition utility May 06 01:00:09 gui? May 06 01:00:19 terminal May 06 01:00:36 penguinbait, I really don't have the energy to dig up a bunch of examples of posts from you that I believe are negative, but don't tell me you believe yourself to be squeaky clean here. May 06 01:00:38 just command line or ncurses? May 06 01:00:54 good GA, because I dont want to read your crap May 06 01:00:56 save it May 06 01:01:08 penguinbait, yeah, see that's negative. May 06 01:01:16 heh May 06 01:01:16 I called texrat a dick May 06 01:01:20 look that up May 06 01:01:21 command line - kinda like sfdisk May 06 01:01:27 your being one too btw May 06 01:01:33 lol May 06 01:01:38 I don't deny it at least. May 06 01:01:51 You, apparently, believe yourself to be complete faultless. May 06 01:02:04 s/complete/completely/ May 06 01:02:06 GeneralAntilles meant: You, apparently, believe yourself to be completely faultless. May 06 01:02:21 when did I say I was faultless May 06 01:02:27 I never said I was Jesus May 06 01:03:13 guys, guys, we don't need to fight :) May 06 01:03:37 b-man++ :) May 06 01:04:03 hey, lcuk said the channel was quiet May 06 01:04:32 hehe May 06 01:04:45 I don't think anyone's going to suddenly see eye-to-eye, here. Might as well just cool down... May 06 01:05:00 I'm good May 06 01:06:00 anyone else just dying to get some fresh hardware? May 06 01:06:14 would be fun. means more work though ;) May 06 01:06:22 * luke-jr flings some grilled chicken at b-man May 06 01:06:28 I can't wait to get some more speed May 06 01:06:41 b-man: let's turn this into a food fighjt May 06 01:06:42 even a little more RAM would make me much happier. May 06 01:06:49 me too May 06 01:06:52 more ram May 06 01:06:58 yeah May 06 01:07:08 128 MB creates problems trying to link qt-webkit :< May 06 01:07:22 is N810 RAM solder-replacable? May 06 01:07:30 not by me May 06 01:07:44 :/ May 06 01:08:01 * b-man eats dinner May 06 01:08:58 luke-jr: :P May 06 01:13:47 also looking forward to universal video playback May 06 01:14:15 but I keep thinking about getting a bigger battery for my N800 to make it a real always-on mobile server May 06 01:19:00 Do they offee bigger batteries? May 06 01:19:26 Beagles would be nice for that if they had better powersaving. May 06 01:20:57 you can get an expanded BP-5L kit for a different Nokia phone, but you'd be without a back cover at that point May 06 01:21:20 I'm thinking of a gumstix with a 9-cell laptop battery on the back and a card that can do wifi hostap May 06 01:21:22 hello May 06 01:21:26 hi t2a May 06 01:21:42 Overo? May 06 01:22:02 nah, I was just gonna go verdex. whatever has a CF slot May 06 01:22:11 Ah May 06 01:22:20 x86 seems like a bad plan May 06 01:22:35 eh? verdex is xscale/pxa27x May 06 01:22:48 oh is it? nevermind then May 06 01:22:57 same as the zaurus. good support, not too bad on power, can be clocked low and undervolted May 06 01:23:04 I don't pay much attention to Gumstux's lineup. May 06 01:23:08 s/ux/ix/ May 06 01:23:09 GAN800 meant: I don't pay much attention to Gumstix's lineup. May 06 01:23:23 I look at it and get grand plans every couple months :) May 06 01:23:30 never do anything with it though. heh May 06 01:23:32 $$? May 06 01:23:52 it was in the past. soon it will be lack of time :) May 06 01:23:58 How do you managed build error while crosscompiling dbus-glib please ? i would like to compile it for powrepc (sorry it out of topic) and i'm stuck with cannot execute binary file /home/gpg/build-tools/ltib/rpm/BUILD/dbus-glib-0.76/dbus/.libs/lt-dbus-binding-tool --prefix=some_object --mode=glib-server --output=example-service-glue.h ./example-service.xml May 06 01:24:06 er, how much for the board? May 06 01:24:12 i would like to share your experience regarding this issue May 06 01:24:28 t2a, considered building in qemu-system-ppc? May 06 01:24:39 johnx, interesting May 06 01:24:51 joelmaher, haven't tried yet May 06 01:25:04 joelmaher, oops May 06 01:25:09 t2a: np May 06 01:25:27 not sure if that's an easy option, but it seems that during the build it's trying to run execute some intermediate ppc binary May 06 01:25:31 johnx, no May 06 01:25:42 johnx, yes of course May 06 01:25:59 it uses those binaries to generate some header files May 06 01:26:48 johnx, i cant use qemu-system-ppc but trying to figure if it's possible to call lt-dbus-binding-tool with qemu-ppc instead May 06 01:26:49 looks like you might need to alter the build system, build natively on ppc, or build "natively" in qemu-system-ppc May 06 01:27:04 you'd need to staticly link it, but maybe so May 06 01:27:21 another thought is to look at how the OE/angstrom guys have altered the build system so that they can compile it May 06 01:27:46 johnx, thank you (i like this chan) May 06 01:28:09 no problem :) May 06 01:29:00 GAN800, the overo looks very cool though May 06 01:30:52 johnx, not sure if its powersaving is better than the Beagle's or not. May 06 01:31:08 powersaving is mostly a software thing IIUC May 06 01:31:33 Hardware clocks sucking juice all the time. Not sure if the DVI transceiver can be turned off, etc. May 06 01:31:53 To an extent May 06 01:31:59 ah, well that is suboptimal :/ May 06 01:32:06 Yeah May 06 01:32:27 I'll wait for rev C to judge :) May 06 01:32:39 It's out, no different. ;) May 06 01:32:40 either way I have a use for at least one beagle board in my head already May 06 01:32:49 it is? shipping? May 06 01:32:58 For a while now May 06 01:33:03 johnx, have seen some no-example patches on theit website :) thank you again, i've completely forgot oe project :) May 06 01:33:44 sure. they're a really good source for patches, even if I don't use angstrom on anything right now :> May 06 01:33:51 eep, gotta run though. just saw the time O_o May 06 01:33:55 'later all May 06 01:37:43 it's about time house tapped cutty May 06 01:55:45 Macer: but does he stop hallucinating? May 06 01:57:27 anyone tried the handwriting calculator? May 06 01:57:41 yup May 06 01:57:54 looks sweet I am grabbing it now May 06 01:57:57 it's ok May 06 01:58:01 :) May 06 01:58:05 b-man: Yandere? May 06 01:58:14 shure lol May 06 01:59:37 Hey guys, just a general poll here. What soft do you use to share your media with your n8x0 over wifi? (I'm in Windows XP) May 06 02:03:23 * b-man really HATES his P.O.S connection >:( May 06 02:03:31 * b-man really HATES his P.O.S connection >:( May 06 02:03:35 (sorry if i double posted) May 06 02:05:25 what's P.O.S? May 06 02:05:55 (piece of shit) lol May 06 02:06:33 lmao May 06 02:06:36 live and learn May 06 02:06:56 I'm having trouble with my wifi too, but I seriously think it's my router May 06 02:08:00 * b-man isn't using his router atm May 06 02:08:23 what's wrong with your connection? May 06 02:08:37 it's verry unstable May 06 02:08:55 3g here. u could be worse :| May 06 02:09:08 heh May 06 02:09:23 true May 06 02:10:05 damn thing won't work on linux for love or money May 06 02:11:07 jesus May 06 02:11:19 this home media server canola recommends is one big P.O.S May 06 02:11:26 (hah!) May 06 02:11:44 lol May 06 02:12:58 this guy in itt wrote this neat little script that converts and streams to his n800 on-the-fly May 06 02:13:07 all I wanted was something that did that in windoze May 06 02:21:46 Bobbe, ive heard of tversity on winxp that a lot of ps3/xbox360 users use to stream May 06 02:21:51 upnp and all May 06 02:23:21 dling it now, will test it. Thanks tank-man May 06 02:34:59 bobbe, I use TVersity May 06 02:35:07 to stream to my n810, it works great May 06 02:35:26 there is even a n8x and n7x encoding setting May 06 02:37:18 u use the canola version? May 06 02:37:21 I mean May 06 02:37:25 do u access it via canola? May 06 02:42:10 Proteous, when you select the N800 as the device, will it convert to the n8x0 screen size automatically? May 06 02:50:47 sorry May 06 02:51:20 you can browse via UPNP from the tablets built in file browser May 06 02:51:35 which is what I use, but any software the supports UPNP servers will work May 06 02:51:51 as far as the screen size, I think I adjusted mine May 06 02:51:55 let me check May 06 02:51:58 hmm May 06 02:52:00 he's gone May 06 02:52:29 the cheek of it May 06 02:52:52 I normally rely on autocomplete to tell me May 06 02:52:57 and still people trick me **** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed May 06 02:59:57 2009