**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue May 12 02:59:57 2009
May 12 05:00:22 <torkiano> hello, I get this error when autogen.sh: Makefile.am:7: HAVE_GNOME_DOC_UTILS does not appear in AM_CONDITIONAL
May 12 05:00:40 <torkiano> in scrachbox
May 12 05:01:13 <torkiano> in Ubuntu my applications compiles without problems
May 12 05:04:24 <torkiano> can anyone help me?
May 12 05:08:54 * RST38h suggests against using autoconf
May 12 05:09:10 <RST38h> No autoconf -> no problem
May 12 05:11:00 <Stskeeps> i'm with RST38h on that one:P
May 12 05:37:02 <torkiano> RST38h, Stskeeps :)
May 12 05:37:26 <torkiano> probably, but is not my decission :(
May 12 05:47:27 <RST38h> torkiano: then add that crap to the .am file, similarly to the crap that is already there
May 12 05:50:40 <torkiano> RST38h, Similar to this: http://pastebin.com/m1032f564 ?
May 12 05:55:09 <RST38h> torkiano: no, I think you have just pasted code that processes this define
May 12 05:55:19 <RST38h> torkiano: while autogen complained about the define itself
May 12 05:55:44 <RST38h> anyways off to work. it has been a painfully long weekend.
May 12 05:56:00 <torkiano> RST38h, mmm, yes, you are rigth.
May 12 05:56:53 <torkiano> Do you know how can I add HAVE_GNOME_DOC_UTILS to the AM_CONDITIONAL?
May 12 05:57:01 <torkiano> is in congigure.ac file?
May 12 06:20:47 <Stskeeps> phew.
May 12 06:21:12 <fireun> it wasnt me
May 12 06:21:31 <Stskeeps> hehe
May 12 06:22:52 <thux> morning
May 12 08:57:48 <X-Fade> oh phone oh? :)
May 12 08:59:10 <lcuk> fireun, yes it was
May 12 08:59:32 <lcuk> mornin X-Fade Stskeeps \o
May 12 08:59:43 <X-Fade> Hi lcuk.
May 12 09:01:21 <X-Fade> http://maemo.org/news/announcements/intel_and_nokia_announce_the_ofono_project/
May 12 09:01:26 <lcuk> niels, supposing i wanted to start to manage a number of packages on garage, do i have to register each of them at the moment, i know some things are changing re .git stuff
May 12 09:01:35 <lcuk> yeah i saw that, looks very interesting :)
May 12 09:02:01 <lcuk> it was only a couple of years ago lots were saying there wouldnt be an OSS telephony stack like that
May 12 09:02:09 <X-Fade> I wonder if we could use that to send SMS messages through the modem of the RX51? :)
May 12 09:02:56 <lcuk> dunno, i still no nothing about networking in general
May 12 09:03:04 <lcuk> i wish phones responded to normal ping :D
May 12 09:03:09 <X-Fade> lcuk: Well you can create a project on garage where you just put all your application in one git?
May 12 09:03:33 <lcuk> ive got that, im just sorting out and organising things
May 12 09:03:39 <lcuk> but i dont really want everything in one place
May 12 09:04:03 <lcuk> because now i can run liq* modules completely standalone, i could theoretically just release each tiiny project one at a time
May 12 09:04:29 <X-Fade> lcuk: But does it really make sense to have them all seperate?
May 12 09:04:33 <lcuk> they are still bundled together at this point mainly so i can fixup bugs and make sure i can handle everything
May 12 09:04:42 <lcuk> in some respects yeah x-fade
May 12 09:04:58 <lcuk> a common question from people were "i want the book reader, but dont want xyz"
May 12 09:05:05 <X-Fade> One can always check out one specific folder?
May 12 09:05:09 <lcuk> others said i love the sketching etc
May 12 09:05:22 <lcuk> well thats tricky and they cant have a menu item
May 12 09:05:26 <Stskeeps> X-Fade: you can't check out subtrees in git
May 12 09:05:46 <Stskeeps> that's one of the reasons why i requested multiple git repos per project :)
May 12 09:05:52 <X-Fade> Stskeeps: Well yeah, source code. But you can build a specific subfolder if you want?
May 12 09:05:53 <lcuk> ive written this to allow people top run standalone stuff as well if they desire, but its obviously nicer running the whole thing :)
May 12 09:06:18 <lcuk> oh yeah x-fade, folders are on their own
May 12 09:06:21 <Stskeeps> X-Fade: well you can't say have a repository with directories a b c and then only check out a
May 12 09:06:24 <X-Fade> Stskeeps: It is not like liqbase is kernel sized ;)
May 12 09:06:26 <lcuk> but suppose a dev wants to help out with the book reader
May 12 09:06:42 <lcuk> do they need to checkout the whole thing including skethcing and library and everything..
May 12 09:06:50 <lcuk> X-Fade, not yet :)
May 12 09:06:56 <X-Fade> lcuk: How long does a pull take? 3 secs? :)
May 12 09:07:06 <lbt> Qt is a single project...
May 12 09:07:08 <lcuk> but when 30 or 40 or 50 complete full apps exist inside
May 12 09:07:13 <RST38h> more stuff = more mess
May 12 09:07:22 <lcuk> agreed rst
May 12 09:07:23 <RST38h> so yea, separate apps are good
May 12 09:07:29 <lcuk> X-Fade, its 60mb
May 12 09:07:31 <X-Fade> but also more time to manage.
May 12 09:07:39 <RST38h> X-Fade: Not really
May 12 09:07:39 <lcuk> yes X-Fade
May 12 09:07:46 <X-Fade> And to track changes you need to look at every repo.
May 12 09:08:02 <lcuk> but on the same tune if/once this takes off other apps will come from completely outside the core stuff im playing with
May 12 09:08:05 <RST38h> X-Fade: From lcuk's point of view it is all one thing but from developer's point of view only his/her app exists + the liqbase common lib
May 12 09:08:05 <X-Fade> And sharing common code is harder.
May 12 09:08:08 * lcuk is proving a concept
May 12 09:08:34 * lbt thinks a single project makes more sense until you have a published and stable API
May 12 09:08:36 <RST38h> Code sharing shouldbe controlled anyway
May 12 09:08:39 <lcuk> X-Fade - does a developer need to download the full GTK library source just to develop a GTK app
May 12 09:08:39 <X-Fade> lcuk: How would you track dependencies between the libs and the code?
May 12 09:08:44 <RST38h> Unless you want to end up with another GNOME or KDE
May 12 09:08:46 <lcuk> agreed lbt
May 12 09:09:12 <lcuk> i was just pondering out loud howit might be done iwth the infrastructure we have
May 12 09:09:30 <X-Fade> I'm always for the point, let's see when we get there.
May 12 09:09:33 <lcuk> RST38h, code sharing is best when its just the library and specific dependencies
May 12 09:09:40 <X-Fade> But I guess that is me ;)
May 12 09:10:01 <X-Fade> Permature optimizing is the root of all evil..
May 12 09:10:05 <lbt> does apt-get install liqbase-dev work?
May 12 09:10:45 <lcuk> not yet i was gonna try to make a meta package last night to do that
May 12 09:10:56 <lbt> plus... it's easy to take a git tree with multiple subdirs and break it up
May 12 09:11:19 <lbt> and you can experiment inside a tree too
May 12 09:11:36 <lcuk> yeah its coming into shape quite nicely, but before i start running i obviously want to cleanup and know which direction each little module will take
May 12 09:13:22 <lcuk> lbt, do you get commit messages from my server
May 12 09:13:33 <lbt> no
May 12 09:14:27 <lbt> I think the real answer is multiple git repos per project ;)
May 12 09:14:27 <lcuk> mm maybe you had to signup lol, ive been a busy beaver recently
May 12 09:14:40 <lcuk> 1 repo per project
May 12 09:14:48 <lcuk> but multiple repos for the whole thing
May 12 09:15:25 <lcuk> o_O can i just carry on writing into single head principle repo but have it update the other sub repos at same time
May 12 09:16:23 <lcuk> crap, gotta go, bbl ta for chat guys \o
May 12 09:16:31 <lbt> http://www.kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/howto/using-merge-subtree.html
May 12 09:16:58 <lbt> may be an answer when we have multiple gits per project
May 12 09:18:23 <lbt> or http://www.kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-submodule.html
May 12 09:44:36 <RST38h> lcuk: What is the problem anyway?
May 12 09:45:17 <RST38h> lcuk: Why not make a single SVN directory, create separate directories for each project under it (including the common part) and let developers check out whatever subdirectories they want, or the whole thing?
May 12 09:45:40 * lbt throws up at the thought of svn
May 12 09:46:27 * lcuk throws up at the thought of lbt throwing up at the thought of svn
May 12 09:47:00 * lbt watched south park episode 1 last night and hope it's not true love!
May 12 09:47:45 <lcuk> RST38h, thats what i have, but im scoping out how easy it will be for a developer to just create their own liq* app with only the -dev package and none of the other stuff
May 12 09:48:12 <RST38h> lcuk: He does not have to check out the other stuff anyway
May 12 09:48:47 <RST38h> lcuk: If you just want to make a package with development libraries and headers, do it by all means, although this is completely separate from the source code repository issue
May 12 09:49:33 <RST38h> lcuk; There are two kinds of developers: hardcore ones who check out a copy of the SVN and update it regularly and normal type, ones that just use whatever -dev package they have got
May 12 09:55:51 <mikkov_> X-Fade: Why can't I add another comment to http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/fillets-ng/ ?
May 12 09:56:04 <X-Fade> mikkov_: I comment per day limit?
May 12 09:56:09 <X-Fade> mikkov_: 1 ;)
May 12 09:57:00 <mikkov_> X-Fade: why do we need that?
May 12 09:57:06 <VDVsx> lbt, south park fan ? :P
May 12 09:57:24 <X-Fade> mikkov_: Because ratings are comments basically.
May 12 09:57:43 <lbt> it has its great moments!
May 12 09:57:44 <mikkov_> except from the author
May 12 09:58:07 <X-Fade> mikkov_: Well, we might want to be a bit smarter about it.
May 12 09:58:25 <mikkov_> imo, everybody should be able to leave a comment without a rating
May 12 09:59:01 <X-Fade> mikkov_: Yes, there is a bug open for that. That is on my todo.
May 12 10:00:01 <mikkov_> X-Fade: it's not that important. maemo.org login problems are getting even worse for me
May 12 10:00:24 <X-Fade> mikkov_: Yeah, testing different setups at the moment.
May 12 10:01:03 <X-Fade> mikkov_: I just did a change that hopefully makes things a bit better there..
May 12 10:01:35 <mikkov_> at the moment my login stays valid from one to 5 clicks
May 12 10:02:16 <X-Fade> mikkov_: Yep, for me too.
May 12 10:02:52 <RST38h> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/05/12/kettering_to_london/  <=== lcuk, is it really that crazy over there? =)
May 12 10:02:58 <mikkov_> X-Fade: well now it stays valid much longer :)
May 12 10:03:33 <mikkov_> not anymore :)
May 12 10:04:39 <X-Fade> Hmm one of the servers in the cluster has clock issues.
May 12 10:04:47 <X-Fade> ntpd[17888]: adjusting local clock by 3796.866996s
May 12 10:04:52 <X-Fade> ntpd[17888]: adjtime failed: Invalid argument
May 12 10:05:00 <X-Fade> Well, that can't be good.
May 12 10:05:01 <Stskeeps> timezone too maybe
May 12 10:05:11 <X-Fade> No, timezone is ok.
May 12 10:05:21 <X-Fade> Somehow it can't adjust the clock.
May 12 10:05:24 <X-Fade> Which is weird.
May 12 10:05:30 <lardman> hi chaps
May 12 10:06:06 <lbt> is ntp user privileged?
May 12 10:07:01 <lcuk> RST38h, sounds reasonable, ask lardman, he just did a similar slog across the country lol
May 12 10:07:07 <lcuk> \o mornin simon
May 12 10:07:23 * lcuk hates clocks
May 12 10:08:25 <lcuk> i almost threw my tablet out the window after seeing "clock skew detected your build may be incomplete" message again the other day
May 12 10:08:49 <Stskeeps> hah :P
May 12 10:14:29 <lardman> aargh, lost a patch somewhere
May 12 10:14:34 <lardman> too many directories of stuff
May 12 10:14:44 <mikkov_> X-Fade: I did some packet dumping yesterday and noticed that sometimes timestamps were one hour off
May 12 10:15:12 <mikkov_> sometimes the expiry date was set to 1981
May 12 10:15:20 <X-Fade> mikkov_: Yeah, server 1 was one hour off.
May 12 10:15:31 <X-Fade> mikkov_: I corrected that an now it looks better.
May 12 10:15:53 <X-Fade> mikkov_: Yeah the 1981 expiry date is for things that don't change.
May 12 10:18:09 <lardman> I'm rubbish, does anyone have a linky to pH5's PowerVR power-up kernel patch?
May 12 10:23:14 <lardman> hmm, now where did I write down the register block address...
May 12 10:23:33 <lardman> ~kick lardman for not making better notes
May 12 10:23:34 * infobot kicks lardman for not making better notes
May 12 10:24:11 <Stskeeps> trying to match up with the smartq? ;)
May 12 10:24:43 <lardman> well I was reading, and I saw that people were speculating that the iPhone has a Samsung s3c6400 in it, and it has an MBX lite inside, so....
May 12 10:25:14 <Stskeeps> interesting
May 12 10:25:21 <lardman> quite
May 12 10:25:32 <lardman> the Intel 2700G is another one which contains a PowerVR
May 12 10:25:43 <mikkov_> X-Fade: the login seems to work for me. But when I logout I keep seeing logged in pages from browser cache :)
May 12 10:25:46 <lardman> I wonder how much the register mappings would change, other than the base address
May 12 10:26:25 <X-Fade> mikkov_: That is one of the 'benefits' of caching pages.
May 12 10:26:41 <X-Fade> mikkov_: But it should not cache when logged in..
May 12 10:27:31 <X-Fade> mikkov_: Expires: Thu, 19 Nov 1981 08:52:00 GMT
May 12 10:27:32 <X-Fade> Cache-Control: no-store, no-cache, must-revalidate, post-check=0, pre-check=0
May 12 10:27:32 <X-Fade> Pragma: no-cache
May 12 10:27:34 <lardman> OMAP3 docs are still crap for the PowerVR stuff
May 12 10:27:48 <X-Fade> Should really not be cached in your browser ;)
May 12 10:30:26 <X-Fade> mikkov_: Although we allow some pages to be cached for 5 minutes when authenticated.
May 12 10:38:32 <lardman> hmm, I need to compare the Samsung and PowerVR caps and see if they might be the same things
May 12 10:39:08 <lardman> Samsung seems to manage 8 textures, while I thought the MBX could only do 2
May 12 10:39:15 <lardman> not sure about the MBX Lite though
May 12 10:40:53 <lcuk> one of those textures is the powervr logo
May 12 10:41:11 <lcuk> its like windows version for emerging countries lol
May 12 10:42:30 <lcuk> is there a list somewhere for maemo specifically where someone has gone through the entire rootfs folder structure and worked out whether stuff can be culled without impact
May 12 10:42:42 <lcuk> or noting what impact it will have
May 12 10:43:07 <lcuk> i have a slight problem with being out of space :$ my fs is running on empty
May 12 10:43:36 <X-Fade> lcuk: locales?
May 12 10:44:10 <lcuk> X-Fade, i can look later
May 12 10:44:31 <lcuk> whats the actual path tho?
May 12 10:44:39 * lcuk gets lost in unixfs
May 12 10:50:18 <lardman> hmm, I guess # of textures is limited by memory and whatever limits the software layer puts in place
May 12 11:12:36 * RST38h starts suspecting that lardman has met the 3D accelerator in Samsung chip
May 12 11:12:42 <RST38h> lardman: true?
May 12 11:13:13 <lardman> I've read the docs
May 12 11:13:46 <lardman> am torn between picking up one of these smartq things or trying to hack the driver on the n8x0
May 12 11:14:31 <RST38h> lardman: I am also jittery on the smartq
May 12 11:14:44 <RST38h> lardman: it is too cheap and cool looking
May 12 11:14:56 <lardman> I think the Q7 would be interesting, not too keen on the Q5 other than as a machine to hack on
May 12 11:15:06 <lbt> lardman.. hack the driver and you may well end up with a free/rebated SmartQ
May 12 11:15:15 <lbt> Q7 = Q5 with bigger LCD
May 12 11:15:17 <RST38h> lardman: I like the Q5 case better but the bigger screen wins
May 12 11:15:18 <lardman> yeah
May 12 11:15:23 <Stskeeps> lbt: and battery
May 12 11:15:34 <lardman> not much to be done without hw though, the spec details are all there, just needs some experimentation
May 12 11:15:35 <lbt> same resolution
May 12 11:16:07 <lbt> how transfererable would the driver be N8x0<>SmartQ
May 12 11:16:27 <lbt> bye.,...bbl
May 12 11:16:59 <lardman> well not transferable at all, and there's no driver for the Samsuung, just a description of the register bank, which is what is interesting
May 12 11:17:29 <roadies> anyone know where you can get the mysql source tree for maemo?  all I see is executable in the garage.maemo site
May 12 11:17:47 <lardman> apt-get source ...?
May 12 11:27:40 <roadies> lardman: I'm on a Fedora system trying to cross-build it, not sure what apt-get source to get, have you every tried it?
May 12 11:28:48 <lardman> I use it, but haven't tried to build it
May 12 11:29:06 <lardman> what does "apt-cache search  mysql" give you as options?
May 12 11:32:58 <crashanddie> oracle and postgre
May 12 11:33:12 <lardman> hmm
May 12 11:35:05 <lardman> what's the address of the scratchbox repo?
May 12 11:35:19 <X-Fade> crashanddie: tsk tsk.. PostgreSQL ;)
May 12 11:57:07 <andrewfblack> Hello
May 12 12:06:23 <lcuk> http://failblog.org/2009/05/09/late-night-snack-fail/   hahahahahaha
May 12 12:06:58 <Stskeeps> five pounds?
May 12 12:18:11 * andrewfblack wonders why reggie hasn't put up new Minimalist theme yet
May 12 12:37:29 <aspect> my n800 seems to periodically decide that it doesn't want to read /media/mmc1 -- file manager shows it as unformatted but refuses to do anything about it.  a reboot tends to fix it, but sometimes it takes a few.  is this likely to be the card, the socket, or something else?
May 12 12:46:41 <dl9pf> aspect: formatte with fat ?
May 12 12:48:11 <aspect> yes
May 12 12:49:01 <dl9pf> hmm here i had it that the fat formatted card got ro and also the fat driver oopsed
May 12 12:49:32 <dl9pf> so if you reboot, probly a fs-check is done and its remounted
May 12 12:50:24 <lardman> re
May 12 12:51:52 <aspect> hmm good one, maybe I'll reformat it and see how that goes
May 12 12:51:52 <Stskeeps> out travelling, andre? :)
May 12 12:51:56 <X-Fade> andre_: Trolling?
May 12 12:52:09 <andre__> Stskeeps, heh. not yet. why? :)
May 12 12:52:17 <Stskeeps> hehe, just being in .de :P
May 12 12:52:29 <andre__> oh. where are you?
May 12 12:52:51 <Stskeeps> ah, i meant that you are in .de instead of the other place you live :P
May 12 12:53:12 * andre__ confused
May 12 12:53:21 <andre__> no, i'm going to be in .de the entire next week
May 12 12:53:29 <andre__> X-Fade, trolling? where?
May 12 12:53:45 <X-Fade> andre__: Looks like you are a troll atm?
May 12 12:53:47 <Stskeeps> andre__: the "andre_" person confuses me then :)
May 12 12:53:55 <andre__> ah.
May 12 12:53:59 <andre__> didn't see that.
May 12 12:54:09 <andre__> andre__ is andre__. i don't know andre_.
May 12 12:54:26 <andre__> and i don't work on qt :)
May 12 12:54:58 <Stskeeps> hehe
May 12 12:55:11 <andre__> now i get the conversation. thanks for the hint :-P
May 12 12:55:15 <aspect> unrelated question: as of a few hours ago, when I turn my device off the d-pad LED keeps flashing -- what could be causing that?
May 12 12:55:21 <andre__> someone wants to propose a new nick for me? :)
May 12 12:55:35 <Stskeeps> klapper? :P
May 12 12:55:48 <Stskeeps> (to clap in danish :P)
May 12 12:56:07 <andre__> rattle
May 12 12:56:09 <lardman> to have the clap or to clap...? ;)
May 12 12:56:39 <andre__> can i have a poll on ITt? :-P
May 12 12:56:42 <Stskeeps> hehe
May 12 12:56:46 <lardman> lol
May 12 12:56:49 <Stskeeps> bugbait? ;p
May 12 12:56:58 <andrewfblack> if you did andre_______ it would be easier to see your not andre_
May 12 12:56:59 <andre__> :-D
May 12 12:57:08 <andre_______> np
May 12 12:57:21 <andre_> andrewfblack: actually I think he came here first....
May 12 12:57:28 <lardman> Pyrethrin?
May 12 12:57:29 <andrewfblack> lol
May 12 12:57:38 <andrewfblack> how about andre_1 and andre_2
May 12 12:58:04 <andre_______> hmm, i got seven underscores. now that will surely impress the girls in here.
May 12 12:58:30 <andrewfblack> lol first you have to get some girls in here :P
May 12 12:58:54 <andre_______> something_else, darn, we already had that name conflict in #gtk+ on irc.gimp.net :)
May 12 13:00:10 <something_else> andre_______: yes, /nick somethingelse  does not work, I just tried it myself ;}
May 12 13:00:30 <andre_______> hehe
May 12 13:04:32 <aquatix> andre_______: watch out noone steps on your tail
May 12 13:04:59 <andre_______> i'll teach'em!
May 12 13:05:20 <aquatix> :)
May 12 13:17:04 <xnt[from_School]> Hello World Again :P
May 12 13:31:01 <fiferboy> lbt: Hi!
May 12 13:55:27 <lcuk_homeless> lcuk - tracy, all i wanted to do was check my mails!!! @/
May 12 13:55:38 * lcuk_homeless lost his computer
May 12 13:56:21 <Stskeeps> hehe, rdesktop?
May 12 13:58:11 <Veggen> lcuk: there is only one solution: each person has his/her own computer.
May 12 13:58:23 <Veggen> sharing just doesn't work.
May 12 14:00:16 <RST38h> lcuk_homeless: DoS her!
May 12 14:03:28 <RST38h> Brain Scanning May Be Used In EU Security Checks.
May 12 14:12:25 <lcuk_homeless> it might work if we all distract her with flashing xchat, but then again she might close it and thats not what i want
May 12 14:12:49 <lcuk_homeless> Veggen: it normally works, but occasionally we collide
May 12 14:13:23 <pupnik> i want a patch for firefox that deactivates all flahs and scripts on pages that are not exposed
May 12 14:13:27 <pupnik> flash
May 12 14:13:38 <pupnik> 90% cpu as usual
May 12 14:13:46 <lcuk_homeless> pupnik: a proer flashblock would be better really
May 12 14:14:06 <lcuk_homeless> simply dont have extra stuffs running unless explicitely asked
May 12 14:14:34 * lcuk_homeless is front
May 12 14:15:04 <pupnik> hi hi
May 12 14:16:20 <RST38h> actually, if somebody provided a wrapper for gettimeofday...
May 12 14:17:29 <lcuk_homeless> whats that matter?
May 12 14:17:34 <lcuk_homeless> or how would it help
May 12 14:18:27 <pupnik> feh, i'm going to have to hack ffox itself
May 12 14:18:38 <pupnik> not finding this patch
May 12 14:30:00 <RST38h> lcuk: Flash players execute gettimeofday() in a busy loop
May 12 14:30:38 <RST38h> lcuk: making some modifications to this function should make them less evil
May 12 14:31:22 <lopz> hola
May 12 14:31:54 <pupnik> nice RST38h
May 12 14:32:18 <pupnik> RST38h: i don't see why hidden tabs have to execute anything
May 12 14:32:27 <pupnik> i mean, it might break some time-aware pages
May 12 14:32:42 <pupnik> but i want them to SUSPEND
May 12 14:32:47 <pupnik> when i am not using them
May 12 14:32:54 <pupnik> the whole, damn, page
May 12 14:33:13 <RST38h> pupnik: Well there are two modifications you can make to gettimeofday
May 12 14:34:04 <RST38h> pupnik: the first one is to avoid syscall and that can be done by providing gettimeofday value from the kernel via some device (/dev/rtc springs to mind) and mmapping it from libc
May 12 14:34:04 <pupnik> you think it's mainly flash?
May 12 14:34:12 <RST38h> I don't think, I know
May 12 14:34:17 * RST38h did some testing
May 12 14:34:19 <pupnik> ok
May 12 14:34:37 <pupnik> i haven't built ffox yet - running the beta (shiretoko) atm
May 12 14:34:43 <RST38h> pupnik: the second one is to add usleep() or nanosleep() inside gettimeofday() so that it decreases resolution but makes it less evil
May 12 14:34:57 <RST38h> rebuilding ffox won't do you any good
May 12 14:35:00 <pupnik> oh right
May 12 14:35:02 <pupnik> flash bin
May 12 14:35:03 <pupnik> duh
May 12 14:35:08 <RST38h> yep
May 12 14:35:20 <RST38h> Do an strace on MicroB
May 12 14:35:20 <pupnik> thank you
May 12 14:36:00 <pupnik> dumbest thing i've typed in weeks
May 12 14:44:10 <RST38h> Open a site with some flash movies and strace MicroB on that site
May 12 14:44:33 <RST38h> After you throw up, look for "gettimeofday optimization" on Google
May 12 14:45:00 <RST38h> You will find at least one fix done by RedHat guys using Intel TSC counter (not applicable to tablets) and some discussion
May 12 14:45:53 <RST38h> The fix basically involves exposing gettimeofday result to users via mmap and overloading gettimeofday() libc call
May 12 14:46:44 <RST38h> A better idea would be locating idiots who wrote Flash plugin and repeatedly hitting them on the head with a baseball bat
May 12 14:48:16 <pupnik> RST38h: no way to suspend flash?
May 12 14:48:31 <pupnik> :(
May 12 14:50:19 <RST38h> pupnik: MicroB has got a FlashBlock extension
May 12 14:50:38 <pupnik> ok
May 12 14:50:51 <pupnik> manually activating flash is probly the answer
May 12 14:50:56 <pupnik> via flashblock
May 12 14:51:50 <RST38h> yes, it is the lazy answer to the problem
May 12 14:53:23 <pupnik> could each flash object be instanced in a new process RST38h ?
May 12 14:53:35 <pupnik> then all non-displayed tabs' flash could be suspended, yes?
May 12 14:54:59 <derf> I like this baseball bat proposal.
May 12 14:59:14 <pupnik> :)
May 12 14:59:42 <pupnik> http://ns25042.ovh.net:8010  Zen FM - stream is pretty nice atm
May 12 15:05:54 <RST38h> pupnik: I do not think you can make them processes
May 12 15:06:09 <RST38h> pupnik: threads yes, but not processes
May 12 15:06:22 <RST38h> in any case, suspending them just accomplishes what flashblock already does
May 12 15:07:14 <RST38h> the real solution would be to give them some total time slice to run and forget about them, let them share that time slice between themselves
May 12 15:09:55 <pupnik> hm
May 12 15:10:16 <pupnik> flashblock won't suspend a running flash on the tabs i have open
May 12 15:10:23 <pupnik> but not displayed
May 12 15:10:30 <RST38h> Microb does not support tabs does it?
May 12 15:10:38 <RST38h> and Flashblock is made for MicroB
May 12 15:12:36 <timeless_mbp> RST38h: technically microb does support tabs
May 12 15:12:42 <timeless_mbp> however we never shipped the tab ui
May 12 15:12:52 <timeless_mbp> and tabbed ui is stupid for an os where the window manager itself uses tabs
May 12 15:13:56 <timeless_mbp> RST38h: and yes, Flash is indeed the gettimeofday caller
May 12 15:14:08 <timeless_mbp> but anyone could have told you that w/o wasting time using strace and friends
May 12 15:14:22 <timeless_mbp> as for who wrote flash, it's Adobe, you don't really have to look too hard
May 12 15:14:41 <timeless_mbp> pupnik: if you're playing a flash video in the background
May 12 15:14:47 <timeless_mbp> do you really want it suspended?
May 12 15:14:52 <timeless_mbp> maybe it's the evening news
May 12 15:15:01 <timeless_mbp> and all you really care about is the Broadcaster's voice
May 12 15:15:11 <timeless_mbp> or maybe it's a concert, and all you really care about is the music
May 12 15:15:28 <timeless_mbp> or maybe it's gmail chat and all you want to know is that someone sent you a new message
May 12 15:15:45 <timeless_mbp> or maybe it's a custom app that tells you when you need to rebid to capture an eBay auction
May 12 15:15:56 <timeless_mbp> or maybe it's a custom app which does file downloading or torrenting
May 12 15:16:05 <timeless_mbp> please don't try to micro manage flash this way
May 12 15:16:16 <timeless_mbp> you're as bad as the product people at nokia
May 12 15:16:29 <timeless_mbp> who go out of their way to break user's ability to actually use the product
May 12 15:16:57 * RST38h seriously considers just ignoring this guy
May 12 15:17:33 <pupnik> timeless_mbp: 99% of the flash that runs i want stopped
May 12 15:17:44 <timeless_mbp> pupnik: i know
May 12 15:17:47 <Stskeeps> disable it in the friendly menu and enable it when you need it?
May 12 15:17:48 <timeless_mbp> but trust me
May 12 15:17:50 <Stskeeps> that's what i do :)
May 12 15:17:55 <timeless_mbp> you don't want a policy to break these things
May 12 15:17:57 <pupnik> mhm
May 12 15:18:01 <pupnik> yeah
May 12 15:18:01 <timeless_mbp> if you don't want flash, disable it
May 12 15:18:09 <timeless_mbp> our browser has one of the *best* uis for doing that
May 12 15:18:11 <pupnik> i can't disable a running flash
May 12 15:18:21 <RST38h> It is pointless
May 12 15:18:23 <timeless_mbp> unchecking flash in components should
May 12 15:18:23 <Stskeeps> no, but you can preempt it :P
May 12 15:18:27 <rmt> Is there a cmdline tool (or a library call) to switch the display on/off and to unlock/lock the kbd ?
May 12 15:18:37 <pupnik> hmm ty timeless_mbp will look at this
May 12 15:18:38 <Stskeeps> rmt: dbus calls probably
May 12 15:18:42 <rmt> Ok
May 12 15:18:45 <Stskeeps> at least for the last part
May 12 15:18:52 <RST38h> Maemo Flash player has got a fundamental bug. It is not going to be fixed. It does not come with the source.
May 12 15:19:02 <timeless_mbp> RST38h: it isn't Maemo Flash Player
May 12 15:19:07 <timeless_mbp> it's Adobe Flash Player
May 12 15:19:19 <timeless_mbp> you're getting the same genuine flash player that a normal person gets
May 12 15:19:22 <RST38h> Now, I personally do not want to hear how this bug improves my user experience and how I really do not want it to be fixed
May 12 15:19:24 <timeless_mbp> please don't complain about maemo
May 12 15:19:34 <timeless_mbp> RST38h: then go away
May 12 15:19:41 <timeless_mbp> don't complain about working features here
May 12 15:19:57 <timeless_mbp> you already have choices like;
May 12 15:19:59 * RST38h did not complain about any features, especially to timeless
May 12 15:20:02 <timeless_mbp> 1. turning off flash block
May 12 15:20:07 <timeless_mbp> 2. using adblock
May 12 15:20:11 <timeless_mbp> 3. probably using flashblock
May 12 15:20:20 * RST38h was discussing with pupnik possible ways to fix the Flash problem not having the source code
May 12 15:20:23 <timeless_mbp> s/(1.*) block/$1 player/
May 12 15:20:43 <timeless_mbp> RST38h: offhand, that's probably a (c) violation
May 12 15:20:54 <timeless_mbp> you'd basically have stolen code on your computer
May 12 15:20:59 <timeless_mbp> if you hack it
May 12 15:21:05 * RST38h sighs
May 12 15:21:11 <Stskeeps> depends if you do it with a LD_PRELOAD for gettimeofday or kernel modification
May 12 15:21:27 <RST38h> *** Ignoring PUBLIC from TIMELESS_MBP
May 12 15:21:48 <timeless_mbp> i'm assuming that changing gettimeofday would break video playback
May 12 15:21:50 * timeless_mbp shrugs
May 12 15:22:15 <RST38h> Sts: Apparently, it takes both
May 12 15:22:46 * pupnik is sorry to have brought it up
May 12 15:22:48 <RST38h> Sts: There is another idea though: given that these flash players are probably threads, isn't there some way to control thread priorities?
May 12 15:23:02 * xnt[from_School] is back
May 12 15:23:05 <Stskeeps> timeless_mbp: anyway, the thing i was speaking about the other day was that i released a firmware internally for one of those smartq5 tablets and less than 12 hours later it ends up with a good bunch off rumours (it's the famed n900 nokia os, it's the beta release of smartq english firmware, it's a pink elephant), and it's own blurry pictures collection: http://www.jiongtang.com/blog/html/digital-product/smartq5-english-version-firmware-beta.html
May 12 15:23:26 <RST38h> Sts: This modification can probably be done in the MicroB itself
May 12 15:23:32 <xnt[from_School]> Stskeeps: it was a internal release?
May 12 15:23:38 <xnt[from_School]> n900 OS xD
May 12 15:24:02 <timeless_mbp> Stskeeps: cute
May 12 15:24:21 <timeless_mbp> fwiw, flash player must do some work on the ui thread
May 12 15:24:33 <timeless_mbp> since that's in general the only thread from which they're allowed to do rendering
May 12 15:24:43 <timeless_mbp> and if someone manages to stuff up the browser nicely enough
May 12 15:24:46 <Stskeeps> RST38h: i believe there's much to be earned in seperation of tasks in one way or the other in a browser .. browsers are almost like OS'es or virtual machines these days in some ways
May 12 15:24:51 <timeless_mbp> because the ui thread was waiting for behavior from a thread
May 12 15:25:11 <timeless_mbp> Stskeeps: fwiw, external process hosting for plugins will probably come
May 12 15:25:12 <RST38h> Sts: Google Chrome, here you go :)
May 12 15:25:14 <timeless_mbp> i don't know when
May 12 15:25:22 <timeless_mbp> definitely not for fremantle
May 12 15:25:32 <timeless_mbp> but keep in mind that flash applets like being able to talk to eachother
May 12 15:25:41 <RST38h> Sts: No, I do not think the current embedded object model allows task separation
May 12 15:25:44 <timeless_mbp> so if you have 4 flash applets, you'd probably have only one flash host
May 12 15:26:15 <timeless_mbp> which means if 1 of those applets is important and you try to penalize the other 3, you're shooting yourself in the groin to improve your walking
May 12 15:26:22 <Stskeeps> yeah
May 12 15:26:34 <Stskeeps> RST38h: eventually the browser and everything just merges together anyway :P
May 12 15:26:49 <pupnik> wow this is informative :)
May 12 15:27:09 <timeless_mbp> Stskeeps: fwiw, RST38h  is wrong
May 12 15:27:11 <pupnik> as a user, i want stuff i'm not using to not consume cpu
May 12 15:27:23 <timeless_mbp> pupnik: correct
May 12 15:27:32 <timeless_mbp> but as a program, the program has no clue which stuff you care about or why
May 12 15:27:34 <rmt> Probably more important .. I've now setup bootmenu, and copied files across to /dev/mmc3 (an ext3 partition, 2nd partition on internal mmc, aka immc2 and /dev/mmcblk0p2) .. duplicated with gnu tar, like nupgrade.sh does it .. but no luck..says failed to boot from immc2 (sfdisk says: /dev/mmcblk0p2 : start=   120064, size=  3812096, Id=83)
May 12 15:27:41 <timeless_mbp> as a user, i want to be told which things are using my cpu
May 12 15:27:45 <Stskeeps> yeah
May 12 15:27:45 <pupnik> timeless_mbp: firefox is taking 80-90% of my 2ghz pentium-M atm
May 12 15:27:49 <pupnik> and i'm in irssi now
May 12 15:27:50 <timeless_mbp> and have a way of saying "that's ok", "this isn't"
May 12 15:27:53 <pupnik> k
May 12 15:28:00 <RST38h> pupnik: this is wrong.
May 12 15:28:01 <timeless_mbp> the only person who can decide which is ok is the user
May 12 15:28:05 <crashanddie> does the n800 run at 400Mhz on OS2008?
May 12 15:28:16 <timeless_mbp> crashanddie: most of the time
May 12 15:28:17 <crashanddie> I think that's bull but just want to verify
May 12 15:28:17 <RST38h> pupnik: I think it has just gone haywire, restart
May 12 15:28:27 <timeless_mbp> it does the same cpu frequency scaling that the n810 does
May 12 15:28:34 <pupnik> no this is 30 tabs of craptastc sites without adblock :)
May 12 15:28:40 <RST38h> crash: yes whe in performance mode
May 12 15:28:42 <crashanddie> oh, right
May 12 15:28:42 <timeless_mbp> it has to switch to the lower speed when it needs to do DSP work
May 12 15:28:44 <Stskeeps> timeless_mbp: i would actually really love something like a simple resource monitor that showed how much a process burned of resources
May 12 15:28:48 <Stskeeps> like, in general
May 12 15:28:50 <RST38h> pupnik: well, start with adblock then =)
May 12 15:28:56 <timeless_mbp> Stskeeps: that's precisely what i've asked for internally
May 12 15:29:01 <timeless_mbp> it's the right answer to the right problem
May 12 15:29:06 <timeless_mbp> instead of "let's cripple the browser"
May 12 15:29:16 <timeless_mbp> believe me, i do have your interests at heart
May 12 15:29:26 <timeless_mbp> but please, don't just try to shoot first and ask questions later
May 12 15:29:28 <RST38h> Sts: Actually, I probably do not want "everything" merged into the browser :)
May 12 15:29:35 <timeless_mbp> the questions your customers will ask are "why is everything broken"
May 12 15:29:52 <timeless_mbp> because your wild aim will hit lots of unintended targets that you didn't dream of
May 12 15:29:58 <timeless_mbp> you and most nokians
May 12 15:30:06 * timeless_mbp does a lot more dreaming than most people
May 12 15:30:33 <Stskeeps> timeless_mbp: i'm pondering if we can do some simple things - you saw the mer rightmost menu? including a simple visualization of how much cpu/io/whatever it burns.. it really should be possible to get it semi accurate
May 12 15:30:37 <Stskeeps> like high network traffic, etc
May 12 15:31:03 <Stskeeps> causing the tablet to lose power
May 12 15:31:07 <timeless_mbp> Stskeeps: my proposal for the os2008 or so time frame was to change how the battery meter worked
May 12 15:31:18 <timeless_mbp> so that in addition to showing charging it would show draining
May 12 15:31:28 <Stskeeps> that'd be neat
May 12 15:31:29 <timeless_mbp> and clicking it would let you see who was draining it the most
May 12 15:32:03 <Stskeeps> i wonder if something like dtrace would be useful, hm
May 12 15:32:06 <timeless_mbp> mostly your choices are DSP task, WiFi, processes, unknown kernel tasks, processes using gettimeofday, and plugins
May 12 15:32:09 <timeless_mbp> something like that anyway
May 12 15:32:31 <Stskeeps> or things keeping backlight alive
May 12 15:32:37 <Stskeeps> i mean, it has to be fairly standard constants
May 12 15:32:37 <timeless_mbp> yeah that too
May 12 15:32:47 <timeless_mbp> Stskeeps: i /think/ that it might be possible to ship an oprofile enabled kernel...
May 12 15:32:52 <timeless_mbp> where oprofile is not on most of the time
May 12 15:32:57 <timeless_mbp> but clicking the battery meter enables it
May 12 15:33:04 <Stskeeps> *nod*
May 12 15:33:12 <Stskeeps> so it profiles while battery meter is open
May 12 15:33:13 <timeless_mbp> and then a second or two later you tell the user which things oprofile found
May 12 15:33:16 <timeless_mbp> :)
May 12 15:33:30 <timeless_mbp> you'll need to add some heuristics
May 12 15:33:39 <timeless_mbp> and support for pluggable heuristics
May 12 15:33:42 <Stskeeps> yeah
May 12 15:33:43 <timeless_mbp> but that's definitely doable
May 12 15:33:52 <Stskeeps> i wonder if powertop has something like that
May 12 15:33:57 <timeless_mbp> RST38h and friends are actually capable of helping write those heurisitics
May 12 15:34:06 <timeless_mbp> when they aren't busy being bulls in china shops
May 12 15:34:28 <timeless_mbp> anyway, i'd love to see a proto for this
May 12 15:34:37 <timeless_mbp> and this is an area where Mer could get things going much sooner
May 12 15:35:16 <Stskeeps> what i really hate is that when i work on mer is that i find things i would much rather have had chosen as my thesis topic :P
May 12 15:35:41 <Stskeeps> it seems like powertop exists for omap3, intruiging
May 12 15:37:15 <timeless_mbp> anyway, for plugins, among other things, the browser should be able to conspire w/ such a meter to tell it how many plugin instances are open
May 12 15:37:44 <Stskeeps> yeah.. to help the understanding of the raw data
May 12 15:38:00 <timeless_mbp> and technically the browser can stop individual instances, so w/ work it should be possible for a meter to let the user say "try stopping all of the plugins", or "resume this one"
May 12 15:38:17 <timeless_mbp> but the first step is for someone to make a basic impl
May 12 15:38:56 <pupnik>  http://ns25042.ovh.net:8010
May 12 15:39:05 <pupnik> you might like that station - chillout
May 12 15:39:08 <pupnik> lotek/lofi
May 12 15:39:14 <pupnik> flag to lardman:
May 12 15:39:19 <lardman> hello
May 12 15:39:25 <pupnik> :)
May 12 15:39:30 <lardman> sorry, just got back from a meeting
May 12 15:39:34 <pupnik> k.
May 12 15:39:39 <pupnik> make your girlfriend listen to it
May 12 15:39:47 <pupnik> or streamrip for later - this set is damn good
May 12 15:39:55 <Stskeeps> timeless_mbp: i'll keep that in mind, - it's really one of those tools that would be great on mobile devices
May 12 15:40:11 <Stskeeps> because nothing sucks more than a battery low message when you need it the rest of the day
May 12 15:40:20 <lardman> pupnik: cheers
May 12 15:40:35 * timeless_mbp nods
May 12 15:41:09 <lardman> so, was the rx-51 released during my absence?
May 12 15:41:27 * lardman crosses fingers & toes
May 12 15:41:43 <Stskeeps> or even heuristics ("this app is rapidly eating your cpu, i'll slow it a bit down")
May 12 15:41:45 <timeless_mbp> lardman: very funny
May 12 15:41:46 <Stskeeps> :P
May 12 15:41:59 <Stskeeps> (i don't believe in automatic actions when it comes to power management, though)
May 12 15:42:02 <timeless_mbp> Stskeeps: most of the heuristics should be more like
May 12 15:42:22 <Stskeeps> as in, transparent ones
May 12 15:42:31 <timeless_mbp> "did you know that this app was eating your cpu?" if no, did you want us to try penalizing it?
May 12 15:42:43 <timeless_mbp> again, automatic is the wrong answer
May 12 15:43:09 <timeless_mbp> if the user wants to use the browser to do video conferencing, or audio streaming or to hear new mail indications
May 12 15:43:12 <Stskeeps> "do you want to zap the developer"
May 12 15:43:14 <timeless_mbp> you can't automatically drop those
May 12 15:43:28 <lardman> you could tell the user which app it is though
May 12 15:43:35 <timeless_mbp> lardman: that's what i'm proposing
May 12 15:43:36 <lardman> or have we already done that bit?
May 12 15:43:53 <timeless_mbp> the browser could probably help by offering a list of plugins and locations and when they were opened/closed
May 12 15:44:09 <timeless_mbp> that way if the user checks their battery and sees "wow, it's low, what happened"
May 12 15:44:31 <timeless_mbp> the meter could say "well, you had 11 flash apps on ovi.com [your start page] open"
May 12 15:44:51 <Stskeeps> heh, i just spent half a year regarding that topic, but dealing with power saving and positioning
May 12 15:44:52 <timeless_mbp> ideally the user could eventually tell the meter to tell the browser "ok, i don't want ovi.com using flash anymore"
May 12 15:44:58 <lardman> that would be good, but we should go up another level and list processes which were open and for how long, cpu load, etc
May 12 15:45:12 <timeless_mbp> lardman: sure
May 12 15:45:21 <lardman> but that should be something someone switches on rather than runs all the time
May 12 15:45:21 <timeless_mbp> but really, the place for this isn't breaking the browser
May 12 15:45:30 <timeless_mbp> it's enhancing the battery meter
May 12 15:45:45 <timeless_mbp> have it be the user who chooses if they care
May 12 15:45:47 <lcuk> thats reasonable, but there is a breakpoint where the logging and monitoring becomes enough of an issue to cause its own battery problems?
May 12 15:45:51 <timeless_mbp> then empower them
May 12 15:46:02 <lardman> yeah, or I think a general logging app (which can also tell you why desktop apps didn't start, look at dmesg output, etc.)
May 12 15:46:11 <Stskeeps> lcuk: sampling will be just as fine too
May 12 15:46:14 <Stskeeps> like once in a while
May 12 15:46:25 <lardman> lcuk: you specifically enable logging when you know there's an issue
May 12 15:46:26 <timeless_mbp> lcuk: it should be possible to tune this so that it works
May 12 15:46:43 <lcuk> yeah agreed - its like the liqbase log - it knows every action taken and screen displayed (within the session)
May 12 15:46:48 <timeless_mbp> and again, you're starting from state: user *is* concerned about battery and is *asking* *WHY*
May 12 15:47:05 <timeless_mbp> the user is therefore willing to pay a bit for that info
May 12 15:47:08 <Stskeeps> this tool should be as mandatory as a crash reporter :P
May 12 15:47:25 <lardman> yeah, where's X-Fade, I'm still interested in doing that crash reporting tool
May 12 15:47:48 <timeless_mbp> Stskeeps: right
May 12 15:47:57 <timeless_mbp> but again, it'll be much better if you guys implement it
May 12 15:48:01 <timeless_mbp> you can get it ready sooner
May 12 15:48:07 <timeless_mbp> i'm sure i can get eero and others to help
May 12 15:48:20 <pupnik> mm
May 12 15:48:30 <pupnik> amazing price on that q5/q7
May 12 15:48:35 <lardman> needs to hook into the launcher though, do we have the source for that as will be?
May 12 15:48:59 <lardman> pupnik: yeah, Q7 doesn't seem to be available yet though, GBAX didn't know when they'd be offering it anyway
May 12 15:49:22 <lcuk> lardman, can monitor process startup properly at lower level i believe
May 12 15:49:49 * lcuk has always wanted something like sysinternals regmon/filemon type things but never found anything as simple of useful
May 12 15:50:15 <lardman> lcuk: kernel hooks are not what I really envisage, the launcher would be cleaner
May 12 15:50:27 <pupnik> maybe i can sell q7's to dentists
May 12 15:50:36 <pupnik> http://ns25042.ovh.net:8010  Zen FM - great lofi/groove/chillout set
May 12 15:50:42 * pupnik is impressed
May 12 15:50:47 * lardman has no speakers at work :(
May 12 15:50:47 <lcuk> but what about when a launched application calls other processes
May 12 15:51:03 <lardman> the original app should report the error really
May 12 15:51:18 <lcuk> the original app died cos there was a bug
May 12 15:51:21 <lcuk> etc
May 12 15:51:23 <Stskeeps> bbl dinner
May 12 15:53:33 * lcuk goes finishing up for the day, bbl
May 12 15:53:56 * lardman too
May 12 15:54:01 <lardman> bbiab at home
May 12 15:54:05 <timeless_mbp> lcuk: yeah, windows really does have better tools :)
May 12 15:54:42 <timeless_mbp> lcuk: so what are oyu guys doing w/ crash reporting?
May 12 15:54:58 <timeless_mbp> certainly if browser-daemon crashes, you want browser-ui to do the reporting
May 12 15:55:06 <GAN800> Can somebody poke jolouis about uploading his USB ethernet stuff to Extras?
May 12 15:55:07 <timeless_mbp> or if mail-dameon crashes, you want mail-ui to do the reporting
May 12 15:57:12 <lcuk> timeless_mbp, liqbase classic has had pretty much every crashable in its capabilities squashed, and if something crops up there is a full complete session log written
May 12 15:57:41 <lcuk> the session log includes pretty much everything required to let me know where and what happened - logging is vital if i am to remotely diagnose and repair a problem
May 12 15:58:50 <lcuk> usually reproduction of a crashable bug (lets say with book reader) is either directly noticable from the log, or with a copy of the book text attempted reading,, but either way without the log i would be blind
May 12 15:59:09 * lcuk considers good logging to be another UI :)
May 12 16:05:44 <lcuk> timeless_mbp, the one thing i havent put in is automatic sending of reports and logs, its still down to the user to get it to me :)
May 12 16:06:22 <timeless_mbp> i have to go
May 12 16:06:25 <timeless_mbp> ttyl
May 12 16:07:12 <Macer> star trek is  apretty good movie
May 12 16:07:31 <Macer> good old capt james t kirk all up in the night club getting his pimp on
May 12 16:08:37 <Macer> trying to bang uhura
May 12 16:12:28 <Bobbe> hey guys, I'm having some trouble having maemo mount my swap partition automatically. Shouldn't it be doing it after I included it in /etc/fstab?
May 12 16:13:02 <penguinbait> I have never been able to get swap to mount out of fstab
May 12 16:13:11 <z4chh> same o_o
May 12 16:13:20 <penguinbait> I always just create a startup script in /etc/rc2.d
May 12 16:13:31 <z4chh> swapon?
May 12 16:13:54 <Bobbe> just put swapon /dev/mmcblk0p4 in the script, or are there other commands?
May 12 16:13:56 <rmt> Hmm.. so, why does /dev/mmcblk0p2 have a different major/minor in initrd than in my root fs?
May 12 16:14:01 <rmt> Using bootmenu
May 12 16:14:21 <penguinbait> command is right, but script needs to be correct init format,
May 12 16:14:56 <Bobbe> anywhere I can get an example? Have no idea how to write said script
May 12 16:15:20 <penguinbait> yes look at some scripts in /etc/rc2.d ;)
May 12 16:15:27 <penguinbait> or do a search on google
May 12 16:15:36 <Bobbe> thx, just a sec
May 12 16:15:57 <Macer> heh
May 12 16:16:04 <Macer> star trek is awesome
May 12 16:16:11 <penguinbait> http://www.linux.com/feature/46892
May 12 16:16:26 <penguinbait> simple init script
May 12 16:16:29 <pupnik> nice to see penguinbait again
May 12 16:16:45 <pupnik> hope you're doing well
May 12 16:16:48 <Bobbe> oh yeah
May 12 16:16:56 <penguinbait> you too pupnik ;)
May 12 16:17:10 <Bobbe> penguinbait, just saw this topic on itt like 'what the hell happened to penguinbait'
May 12 16:17:15 <penguinbait> its been a while, but I am becomming more active again ;)
May 12 16:17:16 <Bobbe> keep going strong man, there's hope ;)
May 12 16:17:31 <penguinbait> he's gone mad
May 12 16:17:33 <penguinbait> ahhhhhhhhhhhh
May 12 16:17:34 <Macer> hahha! he's banging a green girl!
May 12 16:17:49 <penguinbait> swine flu
May 12 16:18:24 <Bobbe> lmao
May 12 16:19:21 <lardman> re
May 12 16:23:51 <Bobbe> this guy in itt suggests putting it in rcS. What is the difference between putting the command in rcS or in rc2.d?
May 12 16:25:59 <lbt> Bobbe: the rc dirs are used to control when things are started up
May 12 16:26:15 <lbt> rc2.d is 'normal multiuser'
May 12 16:26:25 <lbt> rcS is single user
May 12 16:26:40 <Bobbe> bot both are run at boot time right?
May 12 16:26:47 <lbt> yes
May 12 16:26:56 <lbt> you pass through single user
May 12 16:27:00 <lbt> then multi
May 12 16:27:13 <lbt> eg if you need a network to be up
May 12 16:27:22 <lbt> you make sure it goes after the network init
May 12 16:27:31 <Bobbe> I see
May 12 16:27:33 <Bobbe> thanks lbt
May 12 16:27:36 <lbt> NP
May 12 16:27:58 <penguinbait> I see no real benefit either way.  You really shouldnt be hitting much swap until after runlevel 2 is done
May 12 16:28:31 <rmt> Ok.. after a few changes to bootmenu.sh, I seem to have a system booting from the mmc card. :)
May 12 16:28:47 <rmt> 420MB free. Woo. :)
May 12 16:29:40 <penguinbait> rmt, what your not booting off tape?
May 12 16:30:11 <rmt> penguinbait, I was until the rabbit ate it.
May 12 16:30:19 <penguinbait> ahh
May 12 16:30:43 <rmt> But I think this /dev/mmcblk* difference between initrd and the mmc card is a little odd..
May 12 16:31:00 <rmt> Maybe I should swap them around in initrd..
May 12 16:31:01 <penguinbait> its normal, messed up but normal
May 12 16:31:09 <penguinbait> and somewhat annoying
May 12 16:31:13 <rmt> Why is it normal?
May 12 16:31:40 <penguinbait> Fanoush could better explain
May 12 16:31:54 <penguinbait> and I am sure he has if you go searching
May 12 16:34:48 <rmt> udev does the assignment in the OS, maybe..
May 12 16:34:50 <penguinbait> check out
May 12 16:34:51 <penguinbait> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=238942&highlight=mmcblk0+mmcblk1#post238942
May 12 16:35:48 <penguinbait> sounds like he fixed it, but it has not been incorporated into development
May 12 16:36:26 <Stskeeps> rmt: grab a mer kernel and it's fixed
May 12 16:37:20 <penguinbait> thanks
May 12 16:39:36 <rmt> Stskeeps, bootmenu with mer kernel?
May 12 16:39:51 <Stskeeps> rmt: yeah - mer kernel is just a maemo kernel with some goodie pathces
May 12 16:40:13 <Stskeeps> but in bootmenu, you should use ${INT_CARDDÂ} and ${EXT_CARD} not mmcblk*
May 12 16:40:49 <Macer> well.. you can't go wrong with red matter
May 12 16:40:51 <Macer> haha
May 12 16:40:53 <rmt> bootmenu does do that .. I just had to patch it to load ext3
May 12 16:41:07 <rmt> Once done, it worked.
May 12 16:54:15 <ShadowJK> On desktop I use nspluginproxy which runs flash in a separate process. Doesn't take the browser with it when flash crashes, and I can kill the process when I get fed up with flash eating a whole core :)
May 12 16:58:38 * lcuk returns
May 12 16:58:51 <pupnik> locusts
May 12 16:59:43 <lcuk> sharks with laser beams
May 12 16:59:50 <thopiekar> etrunko: PING
May 12 16:59:54 <GeneralAntilles> Can somebody clear up whether GSM voice is a hardware or software issue?
May 12 17:00:26 <etrunko> thopiekar: pong
May 12 17:01:28 <GeneralAntilles> qole seems to think it's a software issue, but I don't really buy that.
May 12 17:01:46 <GeneralAntilles> Unfortunately I'm not familiar enough with cellular hardware to know for sure either way.
May 12 17:02:25 <GeneralAntilles> I suspect there would be rather major issues if a device that wasn't certified for cellular voice began being used for it.
May 12 17:02:53 <GeneralAntilles> andre__, ping?
May 12 17:03:06 <andre__> GeneralAntilles, pong.
May 12 17:03:14 <Stskeeps> GeneralAntilles: honestly? both
May 12 17:03:14 <GeneralAntilles> andre__, whiteboard tags?
May 12 17:03:35 <Stskeeps> GeneralAntilles: AT commands etc (sw) and voice lines in the hardware to relay sound
May 12 17:03:39 <Stskeeps> (hw)
May 12 17:03:47 <andre__> GeneralAntilles, yeah, but verb and object also welcome ;-)
May 12 17:04:08 <GeneralAntilles> Stskeeps, well, his assertion seems to be that combining the Maemo 5 device with oFono would result in the possibility of a software implementation of GSM voice.
May 12 17:04:21 <GeneralAntilles> andre__, how does GNOME do it?
May 12 17:04:34 <andre__> with regard to what?
May 12 17:04:42 <GeneralAntilles> whiteboards
May 12 17:04:46 <Stskeeps> GeneralAntilles: i don't recall the exact specs but honestly, if the gsm modem provides voice in/out and the kernel can access it, then yes
May 12 17:04:46 <andre__> for?
May 12 17:04:59 <GeneralAntilles> What do they use the field for and how is it used.
May 12 17:05:04 <Stskeeps> "if it's wired up"
May 12 17:05:16 <GeneralAntilles> Stskeeps, well, would a data modem necessarily provide that?
May 12 17:05:16 <andre__> ah. gnome uses the status whiteboard to add non-global keywords
May 12 17:05:46 <andre__> like "aklapper[30]" or "evolution[vfolders]"
May 12 17:05:56 <Stskeeps> evening jeremiah
May 12 17:05:57 <lbt> fiferboy: hi
May 12 17:06:21 <GeneralAntilles> andre__, so it sounds effectively like what I'm proposing.
May 12 17:06:23 <andre__> it's not used for adding "remov" when the bug summary says "delet", if that's your underlying question :)
May 12 17:06:26 <GeneralAntilles> There's a specific format, though?
May 12 17:06:41 <andre__> not really. just a namespace convention that must people probably don't know of :)
May 12 17:06:57 <Stskeeps> GeneralAntilles: i kinda suspect nokia's going to surprise us, as it seems kinda half-assed not to use the inheritent properties of a hsdpa module
May 12 17:06:58 <andre__> wouldn't call it specific. we decided that probably 5 years back
May 12 17:07:17 <jeremiah> Stskeeps: Hi Stskeeps!
May 12 17:07:21 <GeneralAntilles> Stskeeps, I don't think it's going to be ready in the Fremantle timeframe, personally.
May 12 17:07:39 <jeremiah> I cant seem to find the docs describing editing web pages in the git SCM on garage
May 12 17:07:41 <Stskeeps> GeneralAntilles: sure, but maybe fremantle point 1 :)
May 12 17:08:12 <GeneralAntilles> Stskeeps, I'm almost certain we'll see it with Harmattan
May 12 17:08:18 <GeneralAntilles> I'm really doubtful about anything before then.
May 12 17:08:33 <Stskeeps> was "Diablo" on the schedule ever btw?
May 12 17:08:52 <pupnik> hah hah ... the pain .. .i can hardly read the text :)  lol
May 12 17:09:31 <Stskeeps> just wondering :P
May 12 17:09:31 <GeneralAntilles> Stskeeps, how do you mean?
May 12 17:09:49 <GeneralAntilles> jeremiah, put the pages in the www folder.
May 12 17:10:03 * andre__ trying to drag GeneralAntilles into a third conversation at the same time:
May 12 17:10:04 <andre__> GeneralAntilles, so what are you effectively proposing for the status whiteboard?
May 12 17:10:07 <Stskeeps> GeneralAntilles: nm :P
May 12 17:10:19 <GeneralAntilles> andre__, I can multitask. :P
May 12 17:10:46 <GeneralAntilles> andre__, I don't know, really. Mostly I'm just wondering if there's a good way we can start using it in maemo.org's bugzilla.
May 12 17:11:14 <GeneralAntilles> I don't really have any strong opinions about what that might be, and am mostly looking for useful conventions we might be able to borrow from other bugzillas.
May 12 17:11:36 <andre__> GeneralAntilles, yeah, but what's the good usecase? it's a whiteboard, so you can use it for anything. but just using it for the sake of using it doesn't make sense :-D
May 12 17:11:55 <andre__> ah, i see. well, compared to gnome bugzilla maemo.org bugzilla is too small that i see a real usecase currently
May 12 17:12:32 <GeneralAntilles> Well, I WAS thinking that it might be a good place to spam search improving tags.
May 12 17:12:42 <andre__> anybody can use it for his own tagging of course... but so far i didn't use it myself, because <5000 bugs is quite maintainable
May 12 17:13:08 <GeneralAntilles> Well, for people like you who are experienced with managing bugzillas. :P
May 12 17:13:19 <GeneralAntilles> But not everybody is quite as badass as yourself. :D
May 12 17:13:25 <andre__> ehehe
May 12 17:13:30 * andre__ wonders if whiteboard entries are covered by normal queries at all
May 12 17:13:44 <GeneralAntilles> Besides, it'd be good to have some inertia behind something for when we do get to that point.
May 12 17:13:57 <lardman> ~curse ARM asm
May 12 17:13:59 <infobot> May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, ARM asm !
May 12 17:14:22 <GeneralAntilles> Bugzilla could use a slightly more user-friendly quick search.
May 12 17:14:41 <andre__> i think that namespaces can be very useful if it gets more complicated later on. however, something like "query[delet] query[remov]" looks a bit weird maybe
May 12 17:14:45 <GeneralAntilles> Fuzzier and more intelligent.
May 12 17:14:57 <andre__> http://bugzilla.gnome.org/query.cgi?format=short :-P
May 12 17:15:03 <andre__> oh yeah, i agree.
May 12 17:15:13 <andre__> but that would require word lists and mappings i guess
May 12 17:15:17 <GeneralAntilles> It's only OPEN bugs by default, though, right?
May 12 17:15:33 <GeneralAntilles> Surely there must be somewhere those things can be borrowed from.
May 12 17:15:52 <andre__> whoops. http://bugzilla.gnome.org/query.cgi?format=short is a downstream thingy and gnome-specific. sorry
May 12 17:16:21 <andre__> https://bugs.maemo.org/query.cgi?format=specific was what i wanted to paste of course
May 12 17:16:30 <andre__> there you can also choose the status of the bugs
May 12 17:16:56 <GeneralAntilles> It should be ALL by default.
May 12 17:17:04 <thopiekar_tablet> etrunko: how is the status of the ubuntu repo for e17
May 12 17:17:09 <thopiekar_tablet> ?
May 12 17:17:42 <andre__> GeneralAntilles, that should be easy to patch
May 12 17:17:50 <andre__> please file a ticket so i don't forget :)
May 12 17:18:08 <GeneralAntilles> I hope the Apple Store decides to call today.
May 12 17:18:10 <jeremiah> GeneralAntilles: what about the description of the repo?
May 12 17:18:35 <GeneralAntilles> jeremiah, that, I do not know.
May 12 17:19:06 <jeremiah> Its driving me crazy to see: Unnamed repository; edit this file to name it for gitweb.
May 12 17:19:09 <jeremiah> RSS
May 12 17:19:13 <jeremiah> whoops
May 12 17:20:34 <RST38h> moo all
May 12 17:21:17 <GeneralAntilles> andre__, done, 4536
May 12 17:21:25 <andre__> cool, thanks!
May 12 17:23:17 <GeneralAntilles> We're gonna need to figure out something to make the individual bug listing fit in 800px.
May 12 17:23:44 <RST38h> why?
May 12 17:24:12 <crashanddie> timeless: you should've gotten some kind of email by now :)
May 12 17:25:20 <andre__> GeneralAntilles, 800px? who wants that? :-)
May 12 17:25:44 <GeneralAntilles> andre__, those crazy bastards who triage in MIcroB. ;)
May 12 17:26:05 <RST38h> umgh...
May 12 17:26:16 <andre__> they really exist? i tried that a few times but gave up... takes too much time...
May 12 17:26:25 * RST38h thinks it's kinda too late to care about that
May 12 17:27:32 <GeneralAntilles> andre__, sure, me.
May 12 17:27:44 <GeneralAntilles> Besides, tablets are a use-case all of maemo.org needs to target.
May 12 17:27:57 <Stskeeps> 800px or the sidebar included? ;p
May 12 17:28:02 <GeneralAntilles> Bugzilla is the one application that noticeably violated that on a frequent basis.
May 12 17:28:07 <GeneralAntilles> Stskeeps, no sidebar.
May 12 17:28:43 <andre__> uhm. triaging bugs on an N8x0 is masochistic IMO
May 12 17:28:56 <andre__> even *if* bugzilla would fit in 800px
May 12 17:29:15 <Stskeeps> andre__: tablet usage is all about masochism once in a while ;)
May 12 17:29:26 <fiferboy> lbt: Have you taken a look into hildon-pannable-area at all?
May 12 17:29:34 <andre__> Stskeeps, doubletrue ;-)
May 12 17:29:54 <RST38h> General: Perfect. Let us remove that damn sidebar RIGHT NOW
May 12 17:30:08 <GeneralAntilles> RST38h, no.
May 12 17:30:12 <crashanddie> Reading slashdot comments on the tablet is the crown-jewel of masochism
May 12 17:30:15 <RST38h> then no 800px
May 12 17:30:31 <RST38h> slashdot does not work well on microb
May 12 17:30:33 <GeneralAntilles> andre__, whether or not that's a fact is immaterial.
May 12 17:30:36 <RST38h> too much js
May 12 17:30:44 <crashanddie> RST38h: my point exactly ;)
May 12 17:30:46 <GeneralAntilles> Besides, devices are only going to get faster.
May 12 17:31:07 <GeneralAntilles> Triaging aside, simply viewing bugs is less than optimal.
May 12 17:31:12 <crashanddie> GeneralAntilles: tell that to the eee guys
May 12 17:31:27 <RST38h> General: the whole maemo.org site is less than optimal on the tablet
May 12 17:31:37 <GeneralAntilles> RST38h, yes, we get it, you hate the sidebar.
May 12 17:31:40 <GeneralAntilles> Complaint noted.
May 12 17:31:53 <crashanddie> GeneralAntilles: there's another thing
May 12 17:32:08 <RST38h> General: that too, but the more material point is that there is no way you can have sidebar AND 800px
May 12 17:32:19 <GeneralAntilles> andre__, really, the better question is: if it can be done without too much effort and without breaking things, why not?
May 12 17:32:33 <lbt> fiferboy: I have now... I'm in the middle of qabstractscrollarea and friends at the moment
May 12 17:32:36 <GeneralAntilles> RST38h, bugzilla doesn't have a sidebar and it doesn't fit in 800px.
May 12 17:32:40 <lbt> great idea BTW :)
May 12 17:32:50 <GeneralAntilles> RST38h, so your point is rather irrelevant to this discussion.
May 12 17:33:07 <GeneralAntilles> Besides, the vast majority of maemo.org works just fine at 800px with a sidebar.
May 12 17:33:10 <andre__> GeneralAntilles, as long as I get enough text of the summary, I'm fine :)
May 12 17:33:19 <andre__> but this sounds like stuff that should go upstream
May 12 17:33:21 <fiferboy> Thanks.  I think I was just going to see what Maximum scroll they used, then it hit me that there is probably a lot more useful stuff in there
May 12 17:33:24 <RST38h> General: yes, you can make it so that a page does not fit 800px WITHOUT sidebar
May 12 17:33:27 <RST38h> So what? :)
May 12 17:33:34 * GeneralAntilles sighs
May 12 17:33:52 <crashanddie> RST38h: tu pousses le bouchon un peu trop loin Maurice
May 12 17:34:02 <GeneralAntilles> RST38h, I'm going to go over here and attempt to be productive, OK?
May 12 17:35:16 <RST38h> General: mmm...ok, try
May 12 17:35:33 <GeneralAntilles> andre__, it's the Reporter and CC fields that are ruining it.
May 12 17:36:28 <GeneralAntilles> andre__, and, actually the GNOME layout fits just fine in 800px
May 12 17:36:33 <andre__> shouldn't that be very easy to solve with a greaseomnkey script?
May 12 17:36:37 <andre__> oh. okay
May 12 17:36:46 <GeneralAntilles> Except for the front page which seems to have 1024px set for nodamnreason.
May 12 17:36:50 <andre__> we must get rid of bug reporters!!!
May 12 17:37:15 <RST38h> andre: just export all bug data through SOAP and let every bug reporter write his own script to access and present it
May 12 17:37:32 <RST38h> s/let/make/
May 12 17:37:33 <infobot> RST38h meant: andre: just export all bug data through SOAP and make every bug reporter write his own script to access and present it
May 12 17:37:33 <GeneralAntilles> andre__, that's another issue entirely.
May 12 17:38:09 <GeneralAntilles> Also, why the hell is Mozilla's bugzilla so broken about line wrapping?
May 12 17:38:36 <andre__> wasn't me
May 12 17:38:53 <crashanddie> GeneralAntilles: it's not a bug, it's a feature
May 12 17:39:14 <GeneralAntilles> Double the wrapping, double the fun?
May 12 17:39:29 <crashanddie> Nope, paragraphing the lot
May 12 17:39:39 <lcuk> hahahaha GeneralAntilles if you were pissed at my photoshop skills, you are gonna be mega pissed at penguinbait
May 12 17:39:40 <crashanddie> each sentence: one paragraph
May 12 17:39:41 <GeneralAntilles> andre__, is the bug layout chaning in 3.4?
May 12 17:39:47 <lcuk> penguinbait, hats off sir :D
May 12 17:39:56 <crashanddie> lcuk: ?
May 12 17:40:07 <lcuk> http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=286846&postcount=56
May 12 17:40:39 <crashanddie> fuck me, I'm happy I never posted my picture on there
May 12 17:40:43 <lcuk> http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=286257&postcount=29
May 12 17:40:46 <lcuk> vs
May 12 17:40:51 <andre__> GeneralAntilles, don't know exactly i must admit
May 12 17:41:15 <lcuk> im sure we could find pictures of you somewhere lol
May 12 17:41:22 * andre__ working too much with 2.x systems or otherwise highly customized 3.x systems :-/
May 12 17:41:34 <crashanddie> lcuk: think again ;)
May 12 17:41:56 <crashanddie> lcuk: and you are not allowed to publish pictures I sent to you only
May 12 17:42:25 <GeneralAntilles> Aw, bitch, Ringo?
May 12 17:42:28 <lcuk> you didnt, they are on youtube lol
May 12 17:42:31 <Stskeeps> lcuk: the star trek fleet one is kinda cool :>
May 12 17:42:33 <GeneralAntilles> Seriously, fuck penguinbait.
May 12 17:42:47 <crashanddie> lcuk: there's no picture of me on youtube!
May 12 17:42:51 <lcuk> yeah Stskeeps he actually looks at home there
May 12 17:43:22 <Stskeeps> lcuk: there's some page to vulcanize people..
May 12 17:43:25 <GeneralAntilles> Better be careful or I might get disgruntled and shoot up the place. ;)
May 12 17:43:42 <andre__> hell. today i learned another reason to always use an avatar out there and not a real pic :-P
May 12 17:43:50 <RST38h> have you got a phaser, General?
May 12 17:44:02 <Stskeeps> i think it's fantastic the mer logo gets cropped to "me" on iTT.
May 12 17:44:03 <crashanddie> andre__: just don't bother uploading anything, so much easier :)
May 12 17:44:25 <crashanddie> Stskeeps: "I got ME on my n810"
May 12 17:45:00 <lcuk> lol RST38h
May 12 17:46:08 <debernardis_> hello
May 12 17:46:41 <GeneralAntilles> andre__, do you have a preference about the bug layout?
May 12 17:46:43 <jeremiah> Sgt. Peppers Lonely Hearts Club band, we hope you will enjoy the show.
May 12 17:46:59 <GeneralAntilles> The GNOME one seems nice and clean. Perhaps worth porting at some point?
May 12 17:48:10 <penguinbait> http://penguinbait.com/thegang.jpg
May 12 17:50:10 <GeneralAntilles> andre__, about the cool nick. Didn't freejazz think up an exciting name for you? ;)
May 12 17:51:42 <lbt> hello debernardis_
May 12 17:51:58 <debernardis_> hello lbt :)
May 12 17:52:58 <CutMeOwnThroat> is it my imagination, or does using the N810 as an mp3 player kill the battery rather fast
May 12 17:53:10 <lbt> CutMeOwnThroat: turn the volume down
May 12 17:53:19 <andre__> GeneralAntilles, oh yeah. darn, what was it?
May 12 17:53:25 * andre__ diving into his hatemail
May 12 17:53:53 <CutMeOwnThroat> lbt, headphones should use less than the speakers though (which was what I used)?
May 12 17:54:00 <debernardis_> cutmeownthroat: not in my experience - can listen music for hours. Rogue processes instead kill it fast
May 12 17:54:01 <andre__> GeneralAntilles, "klaptrap"? or which one? i can't read all that mail now, i have to work ;-))
May 12 17:54:14 <Stskeeps> klaptrap is kinda neat :>
May 12 17:54:34 <CutMeOwnThroat> debernardis_, define "rogue"
May 12 17:54:58 <lcuk> flash
May 12 17:55:06 <GeneralAntilles> andre__, klaptrap is good.
May 12 17:56:31 <debernardis_> cutmeounthroat: something left by a closed app - eating up your cpu cycles!
May 12 17:56:55 <CutMeOwnThroat> ok... you mean rogue == trying to use 100% CPU
May 12 17:57:42 <andre__> GeneralAntilles, now are there any sexual, racist, facist, non-pc, whatever meanings in US slang that i'm not aware of, you powerful man with a mothertongue? ;-)
May 12 17:57:44 <andre__> (happened way too often when talking to a female friend in english that i was asked "you know the meaning of what you just said?")
May 12 17:57:48 <debernardis_> yes - something that eats up your cpu and battery while your tablet is in your pocket (and btw makes it real hot)
May 12 17:58:15 <lcuk> should an <li> tag have a closing branch?
May 12 17:59:04 <debernardis_> lcuk: http://www.w3schools.com/TAGS/tag_li.asp
May 12 17:59:20 <lcuk> debernardis_, :D thanks
May 12 17:59:25 <GeneralAntilles> andre__, http://www.answers.com/topic/claptrap
May 12 17:59:27 <lcuk> now i know how to check other things
May 12 17:59:44 <GeneralAntilles> andre__, there's also "the clap" but that's a c.
May 12 17:59:58 <debernardis_> lcuk %^)
May 12 18:01:00 <andre__> GeneralAntilles, yeah, but there's a second definition at urbandictionary that i definitely dislike :)
May 12 18:01:36 <GeneralAntilles> Hehe
May 12 18:01:41 <GeneralAntilles> with a c. :P
May 12 18:01:45 <CutMeOwnThroat> oh, maemo as a whole is non-free... I should't have been surprised
May 12 18:01:52 <GeneralAntilles> Besides, that makes it exciting. :D
May 12 18:02:16 <Stskeeps> CutMeOwnThroat: 80-20% :P
May 12 18:02:19 <GeneralAntilles> ^
May 12 18:02:26 <pupnik> http://rapidshare.com/files/232189109/Unknown2.mp3.html  listen to this track - ripped form zenfm - please help identify
May 12 18:02:49 <crashanddie> andre__: did you just say you didn't have a mothertongue?
May 12 18:03:05 <crashanddie> andre__: you weren't taught an initial language?
May 12 18:03:07 <crashanddie> Cold man.
May 12 18:04:06 <CutMeOwnThroat> Stskeeps, I was wondering if I could put it in an qemu image and then (I think there's a build environment) use that to compile debian packages, so I don't have to have a full debian chroot around... now I wonder if I'm even allowed to do that :)
May 12 18:04:33 <debernardis_> pupnik: Evolution - Water
May 12 18:04:43 <Stskeeps> CutMeOwnThroat: yeah, well, that's the problem of mer..
May 12 18:04:45 <Stskeeps> er. maemo.
May 12 18:04:58 <lcuk> heh
May 12 18:05:06 <pupnik> debernardis_: that is the song track!?!?
May 12 18:05:10 <torkiano> hello, I have problems with my autotools configuration in maemo: I get this error:
May 12 18:05:19 <Stskeeps> CutMeOwnThroat: http://nchipin.kos.to/mer-qemu-beagle.png :)
May 12 18:05:23 <crashanddie> torkiano: amazing error
May 12 18:05:26 <torkiano> cp: cannot stat `INSTALL': No such file or directory
May 12 18:05:26 <torkiano> automake-1.9: cannot open < gnome-doc-utils.make: No such file or directory
May 12 18:05:43 <debernardis_> pupnik: identified by Shazam Id (/me has never listened that before)
May 12 18:05:54 <crashanddie> torkiano: make sure you uncompressed everything
May 12 18:06:00 <pupnik> amazing!  thanks! thanks! thanks!
May 12 18:06:02 <crashanddie> torkiano: and make sure you're in the right directory
May 12 18:06:07 <debernardis_> pupnik :-)
May 12 18:06:46 <GeneralAntilles> pupnik, there's some web app out there that'll do that for you.
May 12 18:07:00 <timeless_mbp> fwiw, slashdot doesn't work well w/ n81 8gb either
May 12 18:07:09 <timeless_mbp> (nokia "open browser")
May 12 18:07:14 <crashanddie> timeless_mbp: did you get the email?
May 12 18:07:17 <GeneralAntilles>  /. is AJAX hell
May 12 18:07:20 <pupnik> i am so happy thanks
May 12 18:07:28 <fiferboy> lbt: If I have a combobox with enough items to need a scroolbar, neither finger scrolling or the scrollbar works
May 12 18:07:40 <GeneralAntilles> pupnik, google IEatBrainz
May 12 18:08:00 <pupnik> ? ok
May 12 18:08:02 <debernardis_> general: thanks
May 12 18:08:14 <pupnik> trying to find the cd
May 12 18:08:20 <crashanddie> that song sounds like shit
May 12 18:08:28 <pupnik> "evolution - water" is a terrible song title for google
May 12 18:08:31 <timeless_mbp> crashanddie: which email?
May 12 18:08:32 <CutMeOwnThroat> Stskeeps, guess I'd get rid of it for that... but I think it'll take ages to get all hardware to work including the powersaving stuff
May 12 18:08:35 <pupnik> :(
May 12 18:08:48 <crashanddie> timeless_mbp: the one from Stephane A?
May 12 18:08:49 <timeless_mbp> GeneralAntilles: i'm trying to go back in scrollback and read your comments about bugzilla, but my irc client isn't cooperating
May 12 18:08:53 <debernardis_> pupnik: evolution is the title - water is the author
May 12 18:08:54 <timeless_mbp> crashanddie: i don't think so
May 12 18:08:58 <timeless_mbp> looking
May 12 18:09:06 <timeless_mbp> oh, yes
May 12 18:09:16 <timeless_mbp> but i was staring at in:span instead of in:inbox
May 12 18:09:17 <timeless_mbp> :o
May 12 18:09:20 <GeneralAntilles> timeless_mbp, I want the bug layout to fit 800px so it doesn't scroll on the tablets.
May 12 18:09:37 <GeneralAntilles> timeless_mbp, also: find a way to use Status whiteboard usefully.
May 12 18:09:44 <andre__> crashanddie, i just stated that GA has one. it does not imply that i don't have one ;-)
May 12 18:09:53 <CutMeOwnThroat> Stskeeps, I wouldn't mind that it's non-free if I could do all the things that I could do with it if it's free.... hehe... but I guess if I could it wouldn't be non-free :-P
May 12 18:09:56 <torkiano> crashanddie, my application compiles without problems in Ubuntu and I porting it to maemo
May 12 18:09:57 <timeless_mbp> crashanddie: ok, thanks for poking me, i'll reply now, it sounds doable
May 12 18:10:00 <crashanddie> andre__: actually, it does ;)
May 12 18:10:32 <crashanddie> timeless_mbp: I had someone poking me asking if you were getting cold feet, lol
May 12 18:10:36 <andre__> crashanddie, your logic is borken ;-)
May 12 18:10:49 <crashanddie> andre__: as is your spellchecker
May 12 18:11:01 <andre__> nottattall!
May 12 18:11:04 <pupnik> found it http://www.discogs.com/Various-The-Chillout-Session-Summer-Collection-2004/release/475334
May 12 18:11:07 <GeneralAntilles> andre__, no, really, he's right' :P
May 12 18:11:13 <pupnik> huge props to debernardis_
May 12 18:11:36 <crashanddie> GeneralAntilles: he implied that you were a powerful man because you had a mothertongue
May 12 18:11:58 <andre__> +1
May 12 18:12:08 <crashanddie> "please enlighten me with your knowledge, oh powerful man with a mothertongue"
May 12 18:12:17 <crashanddie> (slightly rephrased)
May 12 18:12:18 <GeneralAntilles> crashanddie, clearly I am a powerful man, although having a mothertongue is the least of my many wonderful attributes. :P
May 12 18:12:32 <crashanddie> GeneralAntilles: talk to the clit
May 12 18:12:32 * timeless_mbp pokes gmail a few times in order to reply to make crashanddie happy
May 12 18:12:32 <crashanddie> :D
May 12 18:12:34 <andre__> ...and a funny one with lots of nice words. e.g. i never know how to translate "drive-by-shooting" to another language ;-))
May 12 18:12:47 <thux> is it known who was lead designer or something in charge of maemo? who decide tablets software, who made maemo?
May 12 18:13:05 <Stskeeps> thux: it was forged in the fires of valhalla
May 12 18:13:08 <GeneralAntilles> thux, Ari Jaaksi
May 12 18:13:20 <Stskeeps> close enough
May 12 18:13:21 <Stskeeps> :P
May 12 18:13:24 <RST38h> General: Sure about it?
May 12 18:13:30 <thux> thanks
May 12 18:13:32 <GeneralAntilles> Well, he's VP of Maemo SW
May 12 18:13:42 <GeneralAntilles> There aint really anybody else that fits that bill closely enough.
May 12 18:14:03 <RST38h> What about guys who designed the original 77x0 software?
May 12 18:14:15 <GeneralAntilles> Hildon != Maemo
May 12 18:14:20 <thux> i thought it was possible kate but good that wasn't
May 12 18:15:36 <timeless_mbp> crashanddie: ok, replied. thanks for poking
May 12 18:15:48 <crashanddie> thux: some say he appears on high-value stamps in finland. Some say he naturally faces the magnetic north. Some say for some reason he's allergic to French people (sorry dneary)
May 12 18:16:12 <pupnik> 75 fucking euros for the cd on amazon.de  debernardis_ http://www.amazon.de/Chillout-Session-Summer-2004-Various/dp/B0000DJEQ3/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1242152116&sr=8-3
May 12 18:16:15 <timeless_mbp> thux: as far as we understand, hardware choices are beyond the control of anyone who is remotely visible from Maemo Software
May 12 18:16:38 <timeless_mbp> and in fact, most of us working in Maemo Software don't have any access or ability to remotely influence anything hardware related (unfortunately)
May 12 18:16:49 <lcuk> :O :O >>> Ferrari have confirmed their intention to pull out of Formula One from next season as the battle over the FIA's proposed new rules escalates. << :O :O
May 12 18:17:06 <GeneralAntilles> lol
May 12 18:17:15 <GeneralAntilles> Formula 1 is such a joke these days
May 12 18:17:29 <GeneralAntilles> I say they should remove most of the rules.
May 12 18:17:43 <GeneralAntilles> Each car should cost at least 500 million dollars.
May 12 18:17:44 <lcuk> i like the boost button they added (H) ive had one for ages on playstation, happy to see them finally catching up with reality
May 12 18:17:48 <Stskeeps> timeless_mbp: probably after a bunch of fistfights between ui designers and hw engineers :P
May 12 18:18:17 <timeless_mbp> wrt software, Ari is the public face who i suppose runs the group, but software decisions are of course proposed by people under him
May 12 18:18:22 <timeless_mbp> some of those people are theoretically visible
May 12 18:18:31 <timeless_mbp> however it seems that there's a new group doing a lot of the proposals
May 12 18:18:39 <timeless_mbp> e.g. the guy talking to me now in this UI Brief
May 12 18:18:43 <Stskeeps> The Next Generation?
May 12 18:18:44 <Stskeeps> :P
May 12 18:18:46 <timeless_mbp> i'd never encountered him before
May 12 18:18:54 <timeless_mbp> they sadly have no public presence
May 12 18:19:05 <debernardis_> pupnik you're kidding :-)
May 12 18:19:06 <timeless_mbp> but in 5 years, we can try to give you a face so you can flame them
May 12 18:19:29 <CutMeOwnThroat> GeneralAntilles, is there a price limit on formula 1 cars? :)
May 12 18:19:35 <CutMeOwnThroat> GeneralAntilles, that would actually be pretty cool
May 12 18:19:39 <debernardis_> pupnik it's on the soulseek network - just search with nicotine plus!
May 12 18:19:57 <GeneralAntilles> CutMeOwnThroat, "build whatever you want as long as it costs less than 5 mil"
May 12 18:20:04 <GeneralAntilles> That would be much more creative.
May 12 18:20:07 <CutMeOwnThroat> GeneralAntilles, "building costs for the car may not exceed $100000"
May 12 18:20:31 <GeneralAntilles> How much R&D money factors into that cost would be important, though.
May 12 18:20:45 <CutMeOwnThroat> that would be excluded
May 12 18:21:01 <CutMeOwnThroat> impossible to factor in
May 12 18:21:09 <toggles_w> anyone know how to get maemo-pan working on the n810??
May 12 18:21:13 <CutMeOwnThroat> still, would be fun - perhaps make that $30000 or so
May 12 18:21:17 <crashanddie> I'm probably stating the obvious here guys, but you do realise you don't get a budget before you have a project, right?
May 12 18:21:36 <thux> GeneralAntilles: what is good race serie then, indy nascar?
May 12 18:21:57 * timeless_mbp crucifies the current presenter (Again)
May 12 18:22:01 <crashanddie> timeless_mbp: pm
May 12 18:22:02 <GeneralAntilles> timeless_mbp, too many people without public faces is a rather obnoxious problem with Maemo.
May 12 18:22:11 <GeneralAntilles> thux, I love A/LMS
May 12 18:22:33 <GeneralAntilles> WRC is consistently pretty good.
May 12 18:22:41 <Stskeeps> GeneralAntilles: heh, and on the contrary, i'm deadly afraid noone will take me seriously after meeting me irl ;)
May 12 18:22:46 <GeneralAntilles> The GT3 and Touring Car series are also bundles of fun
May 12 18:23:08 <GeneralAntilles> Stskeeps, just don't wear those slotted glasses of yours. :P
May 12 18:23:21 <Stskeeps> hehe
May 12 18:24:01 <timeless_mbp> GeneralAntilles: it's a problem for us too!
May 12 18:24:24 <GeneralAntilles> timeless_mbp, I'm really bored with doing everything through Quim.
May 12 18:24:40 <GeneralAntilles> I mean, Quim's a great guy and all but playing telephone back and forth wears thin rather quickly.
May 12 18:24:54 <Stskeeps> well, we have daniel too nowadays
May 12 18:24:58 <Stskeeps> we should use him more i guess?
May 12 18:25:36 <GeneralAntilles> Well, we only use Quim because he's the only person answering the goddamn questions. . . .
May 12 18:25:54 <RST38h> There is also another guy in Maemo forums
May 12 18:26:00 <RST38h> Peter?
May 12 18:26:05 <GeneralAntilles> Daniel's welcome to step in, but I doubt he's established enough there to feel comfortable running interference.
May 12 18:26:28 <GeneralAntilles> RST38h, Quim's boss, he's a bit high up to be getting down and dirty in Bugzilla.
May 12 18:26:31 <timeless_mbp> there's also a peter
May 12 18:26:39 <timeless_mbp> but none of them are really bugzilla people
May 12 18:26:45 <timeless_mbp> getting engineers into bugzilla is a challenge
May 12 18:26:57 <timeless_mbp> but given that *i* an *engineer* here don't have visibility to some parts of the UI team
May 12 18:27:11 <timeless_mbp> i couldn't even find the right person to invite in some cases
May 12 18:27:12 <GeneralAntilles> Thank god for people like Eero and timeless. ;)
May 12 18:27:17 <timeless_mbp> note that you stilly have roope
May 12 18:27:22 <timeless_mbp> who is still involved in ui
May 12 18:27:54 <Stskeeps> yeah, true
May 12 18:28:35 <timeless_mbp> there's also at times one or two people from mail
May 12 18:28:43 <timeless_mbp> and i think one or two people from chat/rtcom
May 12 18:28:54 <GeneralAntilles> The Modest screencast is really rockin'. If everything else turns out in that slickness ballpark I think Fremantle is going to be pretty good.
May 12 18:28:57 <Stskeeps> there's also a bunch of contractors in here
May 12 18:29:13 <timeless_mbp> there's also someone from GnuPNP or whatever which is basically multimedia
May 12 18:29:17 <timeless_mbp> and people from Bluetooth
May 12 18:29:20 <crashanddie> modest screencast?
May 12 18:29:25 <GeneralAntilles> ICD people pop in
May 12 18:29:26 <timeless_mbp> we're not quite as bad as it seems
May 12 18:29:33 <penguinbait> OCD people
May 12 18:29:38 <timeless_mbp> but indeed the UI team hides too much
May 12 18:29:41 <GeneralAntilles> Patrik, etc.
May 12 18:29:47 <timeless_mbp> yep
May 12 18:29:53 <timeless_mbp> btw, he's like me
May 12 18:29:56 <crashanddie> GeneralAntilles: link to screencast?
May 12 18:29:58 <GeneralAntilles> crashanddie, Yerga stuck it on YouTube.
May 12 18:30:00 <timeless_mbp> he yells at people internally
May 12 18:30:01 <GeneralAntilles> Hang on
May 12 18:30:09 <timeless_mbp> except, he doesn't get in trouble for doing it, and gets better results
May 12 18:30:12 <GeneralAntilles> Ars linked it from their beta SDK article, too.
May 12 18:30:30 <GeneralAntilles> timeless_mbp, may have something to do with that (what's the bug number?) bug. :D
May 12 18:31:21 <GeneralAntilles> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-D-J0Y7ufM
May 12 18:32:43 <GeneralAntilles> Ah, right, 2383: http://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2368
May 12 18:32:55 <GeneralAntilles> s/83/68
May 12 18:34:40 <VDVsx_> GeneralAntilles, the modest l&F is already available in last SDK updates, everything is more shiny now :P
May 12 18:34:56 <crashanddie> GeneralAntilles: oh my
May 12 18:35:21 <timeless_mbp> GeneralAntilles: ooh, that's fixed?
May 12 18:35:22 <GeneralAntilles> timeless_mbp, it doesn't get mentioned enough, but please do mention how much the community (particularly the council if anybody cares ;)) appreciates the public participation. :)
May 12 18:36:01 <timeless_mbp> GeneralAntilles: um
May 12 18:36:03 <timeless_mbp> http://maemo.org/profile/list?org_openpsa_qbpager_net_nehmer_account_list_page=1
May 12 18:36:10 <timeless_mbp> 	timeless	 timeless -	 Nokia	 930
May 12 18:36:20 <timeless_mbp> the - is still there
May 12 18:36:24 <timeless_mbp> am i waiting for an upgrade?
May 12 18:36:32 <GeneralAntilles> timeless_mbp, not at this point
May 12 18:36:36 <GeneralAntilles> Feel free to REOPEN
May 12 18:37:17 <timeless_mbp> reopen or new bug?
May 12 18:37:25 <GeneralAntilles> timeless_mbp, up to you, I guess.
May 12 18:37:36 <timeless_mbp> does anyone know it was "fixed"?
May 12 18:38:03 <GeneralAntilles> It may have changed again with the Newstyle profile update
May 12 18:38:10 <GeneralAntilles> I don't recall, honestly.
May 12 18:40:31 <debernardis_> bye
May 12 18:41:48 <timeless_mbp> GeneralAntilles: Bug 4537 has been added to the database
May 12 18:42:03 * Stskeeps sits down and begins the boring task of making cph meeting presentation.
May 12 18:42:38 <GeneralAntilles> "Hi, my name is Carsten, and this is Mer"
May 12 18:42:40 <GeneralAntilles> <hacking>
May 12 18:48:21 <penguinbait> Hi Carsten!
May 12 18:49:17 <penguinbait> My names penguinbait and I'm and alcoholic
May 12 18:58:36 <CutMeOwnThroat> GeneralAntilles,  is it? I thought Ryan
May 12 19:00:40 <GeneralAntilles> CutMeOwnThroat, I'm quoting Stskeeps making his Mer presentation.
May 12 19:00:58 <CutMeOwnThroat> right
May 12 19:01:23 <CutMeOwnThroat> wasn't aware HE had nearly the same name
May 12 19:01:32 <GeneralAntilles> As?
May 12 19:01:37 <CutMeOwnThroat> me
May 12 19:01:45 <CutMeOwnThroat> or I
May 12 19:01:48 <GeneralAntilles> Ah
May 12 19:01:50 <Stskeeps> yeah, i'm a c
May 12 19:01:51 <Stskeeps> :P
May 12 19:02:33 <CutMeOwnThroat> there's a guy here that has the nick karsten
May 12 19:02:37 <CutMeOwnThroat> now that's irritating
May 12 19:04:03 <Stskeeps> hehe
May 12 19:04:46 <GeneralAntilles> guenther is Karsten.
May 12 19:04:52 <GeneralAntilles> Got a lot of you bastards, I guess.
May 12 19:06:50 <CutMeOwnThroat> I always thought it was a rare name
May 12 19:07:07 * timeless_mbp pokes crashanddie_ 
May 12 19:07:10 <CutMeOwnThroat> when I went to school, there were up to 3 Daniels  in my class
May 12 19:07:32 <CutMeOwnThroat> (which I guess is handy for a teacher)
May 12 19:08:22 <timeless_mbp> CutMeOwnThroat: i had that problem in elementary school :)
May 12 19:08:32 <timeless_mbp> and of course, the collision resolution sucks
May 12 19:08:36 <timeless_mbp> Daniel => Danny => Dan
May 12 19:08:42 <timeless_mbp> on average each person responds to all 3
May 12 19:08:44 <VDVsx> CutMeOwnThroat, my high school class had 7 Ana's :P
May 12 19:08:52 <CutMeOwnThroat> hehe
May 12 19:09:44 <CutMeOwnThroat> timeless_mbp, type of thing is language dependent, though
May 12 19:14:01 <CutMeOwnThroat> VDVsx, ANA, PAY ATTENTION!
May 12 19:17:32 <VDVsx> CutMeOwnThroat,lol, the teachers had to use always two names when they needed to claim the attention of one of the seven Ana's :)
May 12 19:18:40 <VDVsx> lucly two of them have the same second name, very funny :)
May 12 19:28:43 <GeneralAntilles> timeless_mbp, we had a lot of Ryans in my friend group in school so we went with Ryansub0, Ryansub1, etc. ;)
May 12 19:44:12 <penguinbait> peace and penguins
May 12 19:47:55 <lcuk> hi VDVsx \o
May 12 19:48:32 <VDVsx> hello lcuk
May 12 19:48:38 <lcuk> are you doin much with bluemaemo at the moment or is it in hibernation
May 12 19:51:59 <GeneralAntilles> Did we ever get freakin' HID?
May 12 19:52:46 <lcuk> VDVsx, im asking because ive got an n800 here that would be really good to use with my n810 :)
May 12 19:53:04 <lcuk> (that is if BM is available for os2007
May 12 19:53:11 <lcuk> its lying almost unused at the moment
May 12 19:53:20 <rm_you> lcuk: ?
May 12 19:53:28 <GeneralAntilles> lcuk, install a real OS on it.
May 12 19:53:29 <lcuk> long story short: wont flash
May 12 19:53:33 <rm_you> lcuk: why is your n800 using os2007? >_>
May 12 19:53:35 <rm_you> oh.
May 12 19:53:37 <rm_you> lcuk: fix it
May 12 19:53:42 <rm_you> >_>
May 12 19:53:58 <lcuk> long story short (1): the brains in the chan tried and nothing we could do could do it
May 12 19:54:10 <rm_you> fail
May 12 19:54:12 <lcuk> hiya rm :)
May 12 19:54:14 <GeneralAntilles> srsly
May 12 19:54:16 <rm_you> sup :)
May 12 19:54:21 <GeneralAntilles> yeah, hi, rm_you.
May 12 19:54:23 <lcuk> im smiling :)
May 12 19:54:29 <rm_you> lcuk: can you plug it in to a linux device? :P
May 12 19:54:39 <lcuk> rm_you, x41 runs ubuntu
May 12 19:54:49 <rm_you> lcuk: and give me a shell account with root access and your IP? :P
May 12 19:54:55 <GeneralAntilles> lcuk, flash the kernel and initfs from fiasco-flasher and boot Mer?
May 12 19:54:57 <lcuk> sure :)
May 12 19:55:02 <rm_you> lcuk: :P
May 12 19:55:23 <rm_you> i forget, you going to denmark?
May 12 19:55:29 * rm_you checks the site
May 12 19:55:31 <lcuk> rm_you, i checked everything on the usb and nothing shows at flash time, it just sits there with the damned spanner
May 12 19:55:35 <lcuk> yeah
May 12 19:55:41 <rm_you> cool.
May 12 19:55:47 <GeneralAntilles> lcuk, try a different cable?
May 12 19:55:47 <lcuk> but then in the desktop it shows on the usb
May 12 19:55:49 <lcuk> same cable
May 12 19:55:54 <rm_you> lcuk: let me at it
May 12 19:55:59 <GeneralAntilles> Also, flash from Linux.
May 12 19:56:00 <lcuk> ok ill bring it
May 12 19:56:01 <rm_you> yes
May 12 19:56:07 <lcuk> :) thanks
May 12 19:56:07 <rm_you> just let me at it NOW in linux :P
May 12 19:56:11 <rm_you> i don't need to be there
May 12 19:56:15 <lcuk> no
May 12 19:56:18 <rm_you> that's what ssh is for :P
May 12 19:56:19 <lcuk> lol i was joking
May 12 19:56:22 <rm_you> piff
May 12 19:56:27 <rm_you> i wasn't :P
May 12 19:56:34 <rm_you> still aren't :P
May 12 19:56:37 * lcuk slaps u with a very shaky binary playtest
May 12 19:57:15 <VDVsx> lcuk, I will hack a bit on BM in the weekend, port it to fremantle/mer probably, now I have to work in my thesis :(
May 12 19:57:27 <lcuk> dont worry VDVsx
May 12 19:57:32 <rm_you> well it is about time for me to fixxify my server anyway
May 12 19:57:47 <VDVsx> lcuk, but what you specifically want/need ?
May 12 19:57:53 <lcuk> nothing specific
May 12 19:58:18 <lcuk> just poking you cos i know some people wanted additional stuff
May 12 19:58:25 <rm_you> hrm i was gonna do a backup of the important stuff on my root drive, but... well, as i just recovered from a HD crash and had to image the dying drive to my raid... i guess i have a full backup :P
May 12 19:58:29 <rm_you> so... time to reinstall :P
May 12 19:58:43 <lcuk>  /tmp is limited to a tiny amount isnt it
May 12 19:59:48 <VDVsx> lcuk, tell them to submit features requests :P
May 12 20:00:03 <lcuk> i saw GeneralAntilles submit one to you a minute ago :P
May 12 20:00:46 <lcuk> and you dont wanna piss him off, not with his star trek/beatles fetishes going on, he will come at you with a yellow submarine and attack with photon torpedoes
May 12 20:00:59 <locutus> fap
May 12 20:05:42 <GeneralAntilles> lcuk, proton torpedoes.
May 12 20:05:45 <VDVsx> GeneralAntilles, what is your problem with HID ?
May 12 20:06:10 <GeneralAntilles> VDVsx, did we get HID or is it still serial-only?
May 12 20:07:18 <lcuk> GeneralAntilles, you did not flunk star fleet, those proton things were a long time ago and very far away.
May 12 20:07:27 <VDVsx> GeneralAntilles, bluemaemo always used HID protocol, dunno want you mean about serial
May 12 20:07:29 <lcuk> nowadays you use photons
May 12 20:07:47 <GeneralAntilles> VDVsx, I recall something about it not being compatible with OS X because of serial or somesuch.
May 12 20:11:48 <VDVsx> GeneralAntilles, it only work for some MAC OS users, I don't have a mac to test, apple likes to do some changes to standard protocols :) (and also I can miss something in my specification)
May 12 20:13:03 <VDVsx> Mac instructions here: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=253682&postcount=196
May 12 20:16:22 <VDVsx> lcuk, you probably can use BM in os2007, since canola is there, all the UI deps should be satisfied, dunno which bluez version os2007 have
May 12 20:16:44 <lcuk> cool, next time i drag it out ill have a look and let you know
May 12 20:19:30 <VDVsx> lcuk, thanks :)
May 12 20:27:43 <VDVsx> http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/personal-menu/    <------ anyone can confirm a bug in the comments layout ?
May 12 20:51:32 * GAN800 wonders if he'll hear from Apple tomorrow.
May 12 20:55:35 <keesj> VDVsx: what kind of bug , looks kinda good to me
May 12 21:01:11 <VDVsx> keesj, something like this: http://www.valeriovalerio.org/images/maemo_comments.png
May 12 21:01:21 <VDVsx> I'm on FF 3
May 12 21:01:39 <X-Fade> VDVsx: Is it still broken?
May 12 21:01:44 <X-Fade> VDVsx: I was working on it ;)
May 12 21:01:55 <GAN800> lol
May 12 21:02:13 <GAN800> X-Fade put in some venetian blinds. Like 'em?
May 12 21:02:38 <X-Fade> Yeah, only the unfolding mechanism didn't work right ;)
May 12 21:03:18 <X-Fade> No but seriously, there was a missing clear: both ;)
May 12 21:03:29 <VDVsx> X-Fade, well, is the first time I saw this issue, yesterday everything looked fine to me
May 12 21:03:51 <X-Fade> VDVsx: Shift reload and it should look better now ..
May 12 21:03:59 <GAN800> X-Fade, what do you think about blocking out an hour or two for one more web design meeting just to mop up the last few niggling issues and sync up with Talk?
May 12 21:04:32 <VDVsx> X-Fade, fixed :)
May 12 21:04:54 <X-Fade> GAN800: Somewhere next week then. I first need to have some serious bugs fixed.
May 12 21:05:21 <GAN800> X-Fade, whenever's good for you since you'll be doing most of the work. ;)
May 12 21:06:02 <X-Fade> Well, I'll gladly hand over the CSS work to somebody else..
May 12 21:06:49 <X-Fade> Anyway, time to call it a day.
May 12 21:08:29 <crashanddie_> X-Fade, slaap ze
May 12 21:22:48 <lardman> ah good, only 279 functions to decode
May 12 21:26:20 <woglinde> lardman?
May 12 21:26:45 <lardman> pvr.ko
May 12 21:28:33 <woglinde> hehe
May 12 21:28:38 <woglinde> powervr driver
May 12 21:28:51 <lardman> yep
May 12 21:28:59 <lcuk> you have the 2420 one
May 12 21:29:04 <lcuk> +?
May 12 21:29:25 <lardman> 2430
May 12 21:29:29 <lardman> but got to start somewhere
May 12 21:29:59 <lardman> correct that, 279-6 to go
May 12 21:30:15 <lardman> 273 for the mental-arithmetically challenged :)
May 12 21:30:50 <woglinde> lardman what you are trying?
May 12 21:30:57 <lardman> rev eng the driver
May 12 21:33:22 <GAN800> lardman's tablet is going to explode.
May 12 21:34:18 * lardman 's head will explode first, trying to turn the sets of gotos into something more like C
May 12 21:34:50 <GAN800> Well, of you get it to work we'll get you a Freaking Medal.
May 12 21:35:30 <lardman> cool, well I reckon I'll go for 25fns per week, so about 10 weeks' worth
May 12 21:35:53 <lardman> so I hope to have something ready for the summit
May 12 21:36:29 <lardman> and that's just the driver, the arm-side client library + opengl libs also need to be "ported"
May 12 21:36:30 <woglinde> hm
May 12 21:36:42 <woglinde> yes
May 12 21:36:48 <GAN800> Somebody needs to design a maemo.org Freaking Medal just in case.
May 12 21:37:08 <woglinde> but powervr stuff is hot topic at intel
May 12 21:37:23 <lardman> hacking at something which is a hot topic worries me
May 12 21:37:32 <pupnik_> i think Stskeeps should get a medal
May 12 21:37:43 <woglinde> lardman and political see poulsbo chipset
May 12 21:37:47 <lardman> just give him more hw :)
May 12 21:38:17 * lardman moves onto HASH_delete()
May 12 21:38:31 <lardman> yay, a short one!
May 12 21:40:02 <Stskeeps> i'll be happy with a mer tshirt that isn't in comic sans font.
May 12 21:40:21 <crashanddie_> void HASH_delete() { delete HASH; }
May 12 21:40:29 <crashanddie_> << inline
May 12 21:41:40 <GeneralAntilles> pupnik_, we're just giving Stskeeps a fist in the teeth. :P
May 12 21:41:43 <lardman> crashanddie_: I've got 272 that look just like that! :)
May 12 21:42:05 <crashanddie_> lardman, which module?
May 12 21:42:45 <lardman> pvr.ko
May 12 21:42:51 <crashanddie_> heh
May 12 21:43:01 <crashanddie_> well, you can always send it to me, I'd love to help :)
May 12 21:43:13 <crashanddie_> (if you could send it shipped on a device, as mine is broken)
May 12 21:43:18 <crashanddie_> cheers
May 12 21:43:22 <lardman> :)
May 12 21:43:26 <lardman> onto HostFreeMem()
May 12 21:43:43 <GeneralAntilles> crashanddie_, still haven't bothered replacing?
May 12 21:44:24 <crashanddie_> if (Host.equals("Oprah")) System.err.println("OH MY GOD SHE'S HERE, LET ME OUT OF HERE!!! PLEAAAAAAASE");
May 12 21:44:29 <crashanddie_> lardman, next
May 12 21:44:55 <crashanddie_> oh, Free "mem"
May 12 21:44:57 <crashanddie_> I misread that
May 12 21:45:28 <crashanddie_> GeneralAntilles, I think the battery is dead on this one
May 12 21:45:39 <crashanddie_> I plug it in, it just shows "NOKIA" and then the screen dies
May 12 21:46:10 <crashanddie_> if I do a battery cycle, it will do the previously mentioned cycle a few times, and then die again
May 12 21:46:27 <crashanddie_> I left it plugged in for a few days, so I don't think it's charging anything anymore
May 12 21:46:36 <GeneralAntilles> crashanddie_, got anything else to charge the batt in?
May 12 21:46:43 <GeneralAntilles> Then maybe try reflashing?
May 12 21:46:56 <crashanddie_> no it's definitely out of juice
May 12 21:47:02 <crashanddie_> I meant the battery isn't holding any charge anymore
May 12 21:47:32 <crashanddie> I may have allowed it to run out of juice completely a few times
May 12 21:47:45 <crashanddie> GeneralAntilles, why do you think I want to get a Smart Q5 so badly?
May 12 21:47:57 <pupnik_> i don't like discord in #maemo
May 12 21:48:14 <pupnik_> we all want linux to succeed on portable devices
May 12 21:48:28 <crashanddie> I want Windows XP on my n810
May 12 21:48:49 <pupnik_> no
May 12 21:49:02 <crashanddie> (well, up till now most people seem fine with running bloated pieces of software running on underpowered devices, I'm just continuing the trend)
May 12 21:49:15 <lardman> ha, take that HostFreeMem()!
May 12 21:49:20 <crashanddie> s/em/emeed/
May 12 21:49:20 <infobot> crashanddie meant: (well, up till now most people seemeed fine with running bloated pieces of software running on underpowered devices, I'm just continuing the trend)
May 12 21:49:27 <crashanddie> cock
May 12 21:49:48 <GeneralAntilles> crashanddie, SmartQ5 is sacrilege, though. :P
May 12 21:50:02 <lardman> but at least it has some open docs... :)
May 12 21:50:20 <crashanddie> GeneralAntilles, it's buck cheap
May 12 21:50:34 <crashanddie> GeneralAntilles, £120 shipping + taxes included, seriously?
May 12 21:51:26 <lardman> uurgh, MemHeapFree() looks like a bit of a bugger
May 12 21:51:38 <crashanddie> lardman, twitter blog about it
May 12 21:51:52 <lardman> trying to stop me polluting the channel? ;)
May 12 21:51:57 <lbt> crashanddie: £120  url ?
May 12 21:52:06 <crashanddie> see
May 12 21:52:09 <crashanddie> hang on
May 12 21:52:26 <xnt14> xD, this really made my day:   http://gizmodo.com/5251073/what-is-this
May 12 21:53:43 <crashanddie> lbt, http://www.eletroworld.cn/
May 12 21:54:38 <lbt> hmmm yes, We prefer Western Union transfer, it is very fast, you can learn how to use it via http://www.westernunion.com , for our information for the transfer, please contact us
May 12 21:54:45 <crashanddie> xnt14, the first comment is the best one though
May 12 21:54:51 <crashanddie> xnt14, "Apparently it won't blend?"
May 12 21:54:55 <xnt14> :P
May 12 21:54:59 <crashanddie> lbt, hmm, hadn't seen that
May 12 21:55:44 <lardman> do a google for the smartq 7, someone's ordered from them (via PayPal I hasten to add) and is waiting to see if it turns up, etc
May 12 21:56:48 <lbt> lardman... could be OK... just cautious...
May 12 21:57:17 <lbt> heck small business etc etc... but it's a fine line between that and crook ;)
May 12 21:57:37 <lardman> yeah, I'm equally cautious, and the smartq 7 isn't in production yet I don't think anyway
May 12 21:57:49 <lardman> so he's supposed to be getting a pre-production model
May 12 21:57:58 * lardman looks for the link
May 12 21:58:59 <lardman> http://www.umpcportal.com/2009/05/smart-q7-tablet-%E2%80%93-live-pics-and-availability
May 12 21:59:38 <crashanddie> lol
May 12 22:00:30 <crashanddie> colleague just sent a 5 pages long email that was basically an RFI, and at the end he goes "right, going to grab myself another drink. <newline><newline>Any recommendations welcome"
May 12 22:01:08 <crashanddie> we just had a shitload of drunken emails going "Gin tonic", "Whiskey", "London Pride", etc
May 12 22:03:00 <crashanddie> am I drunk or was that at least a little bit funny and is no-one looking at their screen, cuz I nearly pissed myself laughing.
May 12 22:03:02 <crashanddie> ?
May 12 22:04:18 * lardman considers getting a drink to see if that helps ;)
May 12 22:05:30 <lardman> don't worry, it was quite amusing anyway
May 12 22:05:32 <lardman> :)
May 12 22:05:33 * lbt smiled
May 12 22:07:04 <lardman> 13 down, but these are the easy ones, the destruction fns
May 12 22:34:59 <andrewfblack> Anyone know of a Linux Distribution similar to Windows Home server, or do I need to just take a copy of ubuntu and install stuff my self decided not to pay for whs once my trail runs out
May 12 22:38:55 <lardman> never used whs I'm afraid, I'd say just go with customising Ubuntu
May 12 22:39:15 <CutMeOwnThroat> windows home server...
May 12 22:39:19 <CutMeOwnThroat> the things that exist on earth
May 12 22:39:32 * CutMeOwnThroat shakes his head
May 12 22:40:28 <CutMeOwnThroat> windows invented the home server, eh?
May 12 22:40:29 <CutMeOwnThroat> amazing
May 12 22:41:55 <andrewfblack> CutMeOwnThroat: nope windows didn't invent the home server, but its a nice packaged up was of installing stuff, I looked at Amahi but wasn't sure if there was something better guess I'll just go about installing everything my self
May 12 22:42:18 <CutMeOwnThroat> I wouldn't use something that is based on debian unstable for something serverish that runs on older hardware, though
May 12 22:43:06 <andrewfblack> what would you recommend CutMeOwnThroat?  Using an almost brand new computer for my server
May 12 22:43:57 <CutMeOwnThroat> I just skipped over http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Home_server which also notes that it's usually older HW
May 12 22:44:55 <CutMeOwnThroat> dunno, I use debian anyway - but for a server which probably doesn't need the newest packages of everything I'd think other people also prefer stable
May 12 22:45:28 <CutMeOwnThroat> for a desktop I see the point
May 12 22:46:36 <CutMeOwnThroat> ... although I'm usually using backports for the perhaps 5 packages I care to have in an up-to-date version
May 12 23:03:12 <lardman> http://www.coranac.com/tonc/text/asm.htm seems like a good overview
May 12 23:03:19 <lardman> of ARM ASM that is
May 12 23:06:26 <lcuk> lardman, you are evil and a temptress
May 12 23:07:08 <lardman> well it does look pretty good
May 12 23:07:10 <lardman> :)
May 12 23:08:30 <lcuk> indeed it does
May 12 23:08:41 * lcuk has always had a soft spot for sane looking asm
May 12 23:08:58 <lcuk> sane == !x86 ;)
May 12 23:13:48 <lardman> hmm, not sure the words sane and asm should ever appear in the same sentence :)
May 12 23:14:17 <lcuk> yeah lardman, they are lego blocks :)
May 12 23:14:21 * lcuk loves to build
May 12 23:14:26 <derf> I don't need an overview, I need nitty-gritty.
May 12 23:14:57 <lcuk> :( derf, whats up that you need asm so badly?
May 12 23:15:05 <lardman> well it gives enough info about what you're going to see so that you can look elsewhere
May 12 23:15:06 <derf> lcuk: Theora.
May 12 23:15:12 <lardman> otherwise it's a bit overwhelming
May 12 23:15:40 <lcuk> noble cause derf :) hope you win
May 12 23:15:51 <lardman> hmm, well in that case you need the ARM manual for the chip with the timings for the operations, etc
May 12 23:16:28 <GuySoft> is it only here or is google giving 500 errors?
May 12 23:16:41 <lardman> works for me (.co.uk tho)
May 12 23:16:57 <lcuk> http://downforeveryoneorjustme.com/google.com
May 12 23:17:27 <lcuk> GuySoft, google mail was a bit sluggish earlier
May 12 23:18:11 <GuySoft> i get 502 Bad Gateway
May 12 23:18:18 <GuySoft> nginx/0.6.35
May 12 23:18:55 <GuySoft> strange. gmail.com works. google.com does not
May 12 23:19:05 <GuySoft> looks like an error in our ISP or something
May 12 23:19:08 <GuySoft> whats nginx?
May 12 23:19:18 <lardman> derf: http://infocenter.arm.com/help/index.jsp?topic=/com.arm.doc.ddi0375a/Babcaiah.html
May 12 23:19:39 <lardman> derf: integer only code, or vfp, or the simd extensions (or the whole lot)?
May 12 23:19:40 * GuySoft clusties it and not googles..
May 12 23:19:45 <xnt14> Guysoft: nginx is a web server like apache
May 12 23:19:55 <derf> SIMD, primarily.
May 12 23:20:01 <derf> No floating point.
May 12 23:20:03 <GuySoft> carnt be google runes on that..
May 12 23:21:03 <lardman> hmm, aren't the simd instructions for fp only...?
May 12 23:21:39 <lcuk> simd are only for non-thumb compilation i believe
May 12 23:22:08 <lardman> yeah, well that's expected
May 12 23:22:34 <derf> lardman: That was not my understanding, but I know very little about it.
May 12 23:22:41 <lcuk> does gcc compile to thumb or non thumb on diablo by default?
May 12 23:22:48 <lcuk> simd is integer isnt it
May 12 23:22:52 <lcuk> upto 128bit
May 12 23:22:53 <lardman> derf: what the thumb bit or the simd bit?
May 12 23:23:00 <derf> The SIMD bit.
May 12 23:23:04 <lardman> no idea, I can't seem to find it in the manual now
May 12 23:23:20 <lardman> lots of nice saturated add/etc instructions in the normal set though
May 12 23:23:25 <GeneralAntilles> #beagle has some NEON people.
May 12 23:25:02 <lardman> derf: cycle timings and interlock behaviour will be of interest eventually
May 12 23:25:09 <derf> lardman: Yes.
May 12 23:26:03 <derf> For Intel I've got big tables with timings for every processor, which are exceedingly useful.
May 12 23:27:08 <lardman> ah ok, SIMD have an S on the front, e.g. SADD
May 12 23:27:27 <lardman> 16 or 8 bit data looks like
May 12 23:27:46 <lardman> http://www.dspdesignline.com/howto/197005500;jsessionid=TZ3EK3Q5X0HYYQSNDLRCKH0CJUNN2JVN?pgno=2
May 12 23:28:23 <derf> Hmm, I'm going to need 32 in a few places.
May 12 23:28:40 <lardman> NEON has the large size SIMD instructions
May 12 23:29:06 <derf> What hardware actually supports NEON?
May 12 23:29:13 <lardman> the Cortex
May 12 23:29:18 <lardman> OMAP3
May 12 23:29:26 <lardman> (e.g.)
May 12 23:29:40 <derf> Well, video was never going to work properly with N8x0's LCD controller anyway.
May 12 23:29:53 <lardman> :)
May 12 23:31:22 <derf> I mean, I'm sure 2-way parallelism is nice and all, but...
May 12 23:31:50 <lardman> well better than nothing
May 12 23:32:10 <derf> Anyway, gotta go.
May 12 23:32:16 <lardman> likewise, getting late
May 12 23:32:31 <lardman> cu tomorrow chaps
May 12 23:56:08 <saruji> hello all i am here to find out how to get mer on my n810
May 12 23:56:33 <saruji> any help or direction would be greatly appreciated
May 12 23:57:02 <saruji> #join ubuntu
May 12 23:59:41 <torkiano> saruji, http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer/Documentation/Installation#N8x0_Install
May 13 00:00:07 <torkiano> saruji, and #mer channel ;)
May 13 00:00:24 <saruji> thank you
May 13 01:04:47 <GAN800> Nice, Jussi supporting pb's insanity blog post. . . .
May 13 01:05:11 <luke-jr_> ?
May 13 01:05:13 <luke-jr_> ?
May 13 01:05:40 <GAN800> tablethacker.com Post 1 Comment 4
May 13 01:06:33 <luke-jr_> bleh
May 13 01:06:38 <luke-jr_> link??
May 13 01:09:25 <GAN800> http://tablethacker.com/wp/?p=366&lang=en-us#comments last comment, not that exciting though.
May 13 01:58:07 <CutMeOwnThroat> insanity?
May 13 01:58:33 <CutMeOwnThroat> seems pretty normal to me
May 13 02:11:03 <Andrewfblack> Hello
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed May 13 02:59:57 2009