**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed May 20 02:59:57 2009
May 20 03:45:42 <Inf3kt4> yes i like tah fly kites
May 20 04:11:47 <Macer> hahhahah
May 20 04:11:49 <Macer> omg ncis is a riot
May 20 04:17:36 <Inf3kt4> whats playing tonight
May 20 04:18:56 <Inf3kt4> whys ncis a riot
May 20 04:45:27 <Macer> rise of the lycans is already out on blue ray?
May 20 05:01:52 <RST38x> "No one wants to turn this thing on with the obvious exception of some of our D-Class sociopaths who would respond similarly to a large red button labeled EVERYTHING DIES."
May 20 05:12:17 <luke-jr> noriko ~ # ./n8x0_cfgread wlan-mac 0 1 /dev/mtd1 2
May 20 05:12:19 <luke-jr> 00:1d:xx:xx:xx:xx
May 20 05:12:20 <luke-jr> :D
May 20 05:13:33 <StsN800> reading is easy. writing isn't
May 20 05:15:27 <luke-jr> StsN800: I don't need to write to cfg
May 20 05:15:55 <luke-jr> the real problem now is that *$&#*($ stlc45xx-cal actually *does something* with the data
May 20 05:16:29 <luke-jr> so my little toy is only really useful for setting the MAC address
May 20 05:16:43 <luke-jr> ifconfig wlan0 hwaddr $(./n8x0_cfgread wlan-mac 0 1 /dev/mtd1ro 2)
May 20 05:17:46 <StsN800> heh
May 20 05:21:21 <Macer> hm
May 20 06:32:46 <thux> morning
May 20 06:40:06 <Macer> ugh
May 20 06:40:13 <Macer> installing cygwin ports is driving me nuts
May 20 06:40:20 <Stskeeps> cygwin = awkward
May 20 06:40:26 * Stskeeps watches smartq7 unboxing video
May 20 06:40:38 <Macer> Stskeeps: well.. it certainly is
May 20 06:40:46 <Macer> i don't understand why i can't seem to find more on the subject
May 20 06:41:49 <mib_d22bkd> hello, is anybody here?
May 20 06:41:54 <Stskeeps> sortof
May 20 06:41:58 <mib_d22bkd> :)
May 20 06:42:02 <mib_d22bkd> need help
May 20 06:42:05 <mib_d22bkd> :)
May 20 06:42:26 <mib_d22bkd> i just bought n800 and i try to install ubuntu,
May 20 06:42:38 <Stskeeps> that's kinda advanced for a newbie :P
May 20 06:42:42 <Stskeeps> Macer: http://www.umpcportal.com/2009/05/smart-devices-q7-unboxing-video
May 20 06:42:50 <mib_d22bkd> going: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=27735 til the end
May 20 06:43:20 <mib_d22bkd> but i have incompatible bootmenu problem, :( and in google i havent fount the answer
May 20 06:43:39 <mib_d22bkd> nobody say in eady way how to fix it
May 20 06:43:48 <Stskeeps> incompatible bootmenu means you used a bad bootmenu initially to boot it.
May 20 06:44:10 <Stskeeps> or a bad item
May 20 06:44:25 <mib_d22bkd> ok, so.. what bootmenu i need to use, and where to instal it... in maemo env. or chroot of ubuntu ?
May 20 06:45:03 <Stskeeps> you need to get the deblet boootmenu, the one that Mer uses, and then you need to set up the right .item, and be -sure- to have it contain ITEM_LINUXRC, and then you reinstall ubuntu all over :)
May 20 06:45:15 <Myrtti> even though I love ubuntu a lot, I don't understand the benefits of installing it to mobile devices like NIT...
May 20 06:46:02 <Stskeeps> Myrtti: i don't get it either, but if they want a 3-4 hour laptop, sure.. :P
May 20 06:46:50 <Myrtti> I should go and make coffee...
May 20 06:47:00 <mib_d22bkd> ok, (about deblet bootmenu)... from where? :) .... /
May 20 06:47:13 <Stskeeps> mib_d22bkd: what exactly do you need ubuntu for, btw? :P
May 20 06:47:22 <Stskeeps> mib_d22bkd: and the deblet bootmenu is definately in the guide
May 20 06:47:28 <mib_d22bkd> setting up the .item is easy
May 20 06:47:29 <Stskeeps> if it's not, b-man needs a SEVERE beating.
May 20 06:47:47 <mib_d22bkd> i wanna ubuntu to make translate my device to Polish language fully
May 20 06:47:58 <Myrtti> erm
May 20 06:48:09 <Macer> Stskeeps: that things looks interesting
May 20 06:48:09 <Stskeeps> you mean have your device be in polish
May 20 06:48:18 <Myrtti> that's a pretty hard way of doing that
May 20 06:48:46 <mib_d22bkd> yes... even aplications thar are available in polish in desctop ubuntu
May 20 06:48:54 <Macer> 7"?
May 20 06:48:55 <Macer> wow
May 20 06:49:02 <Macer> that thing is a beast
May 20 06:49:04 <Stskeeps> Macer: yeah, there's a 4.3" and a 7"
May 20 06:49:19 <Macer> wow that thing is awesome
May 20 06:49:32 <Stskeeps> and it runs mer ;)
May 20 06:49:39 <Stskeeps> (when i compile the bootloader + kernel for it)
May 20 06:49:41 <Macer> does it really???
May 20 06:49:46 <Macer> oh
May 20 06:49:47 <Macer> lol
May 20 06:49:52 <mib_d22bkd> Stskeeps: could you tel me from where i must get deblet bootmenu?
May 20 06:50:00 <Macer> i thought you meant they were selling it with it :)
May 20 06:50:16 <Macer> no qwerty?
May 20 06:51:16 <Macer> ubuntu arm?
May 20 06:51:16 <mib_d22bkd> Stskeeps: use bootmenu from http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer/Documentation/Installation#N8x0_Install ?
May 20 06:52:06 <Macer> it's running gnome?
May 20 06:52:07 <Macer> fail
May 20 06:52:08 <Macer> haha
May 20 06:53:36 <mib_d22bkd> is the "Incompatible bootmenu" on ubuntu wil diapear when i use "Install bootmenu" from Mer?
May 20 06:53:52 <Macer> and fail with the keyboard not resizing the windows
May 20 06:53:53 <Macer> :)
May 20 06:54:21 <Macer> it looked good until it started to run Stskeeps
May 20 06:55:05 <Macer> lol... and it runs slow as shit. the only thing it has going for it is that the screen is a nice size
May 20 06:55:15 <mib_d22bkd> anybody could told me that is a god point or not? Install Boot Menu from MER?
May 20 06:56:06 <Stskeeps> mib_d22bkd: yes, it is
May 20 06:56:15 <Stskeeps> mib_d22bkd: but you need to reinstall ubuntu afterwards
May 20 06:56:16 <Stskeeps> totally
May 20 06:56:21 <Stskeeps> Macer: yeah, sw is shite
May 20 06:56:28 <Stskeeps> machine is faster than n800 though
May 20 06:56:28 <Macer> it sure is
May 20 06:56:28 <Myrtti> COFFFEEEEEEEEEE
May 20 06:56:39 <Macer> on paper it is ;)
May 20 06:56:49 <Stskeeps> nah, Mer runs really speedy on it
May 20 06:56:58 <Macer> yeah but...
May 20 06:57:00 <Macer> no qwerty
May 20 06:57:06 <mib_d22bkd> stskeeps: ok, very thnx, before that i must reflash to default os2008 :) becouse i have DESTROY to much ;]
May 20 06:57:07 <Macer> i refuse to buy another thing without a qwerty :)
May 20 06:57:12 <Stskeeps> yea, but you can plug in a usb keyboard
May 20 06:57:15 <Stskeeps> which is also kinda powerful
May 20 06:57:24 <Stskeeps> also, 7" isn't something i want to carry around
May 20 06:57:30 <Stskeeps> (no usb hub needed)
May 20 06:57:34 <Macer> naw.. that's not too bad
May 20 06:57:41 <mib_d22bkd> thnx, for everything, i will go try it now, and be back to tell how it goes
May 20 06:57:44 <Macer> i mean you would need some pretty large pockets
May 20 06:57:44 <Macer> :)
May 20 06:57:51 <mib_d22bkd> bye
May 20 06:57:59 <Stskeeps> mib_d22bkd: be aware that the ubuntu port is entirely unsupported except by the author :P
May 20 06:59:10 <mib_d22bkd> Stskeeps: ok, i will look how it works, if it will not that good as i thing, i will install easy-deb on maemo ;]
May 20 06:59:32 <mib_d22bkd> thnx
May 20 07:13:00 <thux> so many x86 linux distributions and so few armel linux distributions
May 20 07:13:21 <macmaN6789> well lookie there, another incompatible bootmenu guy
May 20 07:19:24 <StsN801> macmaN6789, the instructions are full of failures and potential pitfalls.. there's a reason why we tried to make mer install painless
May 20 07:19:48 <Macer> wow cygwin sucks
May 20 07:20:02 <macmaN6789> Macer: it does but its better than nothing
May 20 07:20:08 <Macer> heh
May 20 07:20:29 <Macer> well.. it isn't that bad
May 20 07:20:35 <Macer> but it should have a commanline pkg manager
May 20 07:20:41 <macmaN6789> absolutely
May 20 07:20:42 <Macer> instead of having to run a damn win setup program
May 20 07:20:49 <macmaN6789> I was the same way :-o
May 20 07:20:54 <Macer> heh
May 20 07:21:10 <Macer> i mean it was cool once.. but to do it over and over just to add pkgs?
May 20 07:21:14 <Macer> does it even do dep checking?
May 20 07:21:22 <macmaN6789> getting apache to run was another omfg
May 20 07:21:27 <Macer> or do you wind up running the setup a thousand times?
May 20 07:21:28 <macmaN6789> and in the end.. I couldn't
May 20 07:21:38 <Macer> i wouldn't even try with this :)
May 20 07:21:42 <macmaN6789> it has deps
May 20 07:21:45 <Macer> don't they have a native w32 apache anyways?
May 20 07:21:49 <macmaN6789> they do
May 20 07:21:57 <macmaN6789> but I thought id have a nice neat cygwin setup
May 20 07:22:01 <Macer> oh.. so if i install something from the setup program it will install the apps?
May 20 07:22:08 <macmaN6789> yes it will
May 20 07:22:09 <Macer> er.. deps
May 20 07:22:12 <Macer> i meant :)
May 20 07:22:18 <Macer> ok
May 20 07:22:29 <macmaN6789> apache for me ran into some stupid semaphore problem
May 20 07:22:31 <Macer> i just kind of wanted to see if i could use some of the stuff
May 20 07:22:36 <macmaN6789> IPC stuff
May 20 07:22:40 <Macer> i want to definately use it over the win shell
May 20 07:22:49 <macmaN6789> yep, I'm sshing in and out
May 20 07:22:55 <macmaN6789> wgetting new windows apps
May 20 07:23:01 <Macer> heh
May 20 07:23:07 <macmaN6789> screening a bit even, although that's a bit shaky
May 20 07:23:16 <Macer> i'm sure it comes in handy .. i just can't stand this "have to run the setup program" thing it has going on
May 20 07:23:26 <timeless_mbp> macmaN6789: anything, including nothing is better than cygwin
May 20 07:23:30 <Macer> it's typical windows shit. where you change domains and you have to reboot :)
May 20 07:23:38 <macmaN6789> lol timeless_mbp
May 20 07:24:07 <StsN801> wasn't there microsofts services for unix too?
May 20 07:24:11 <macmaN6789> well when I got my mbp, that was also a "what no package manager, STILL" :-o
May 20 07:24:25 <Macer> StsN801: yes
May 20 07:24:28 <Macer> i used to use it for nfs
May 20 07:24:28 <mavhc> windows apache used threads way before unix one did
May 20 07:24:31 <macmaN6789> StsN801: I think those are even less than nothing
May 20 07:24:35 <Macer> found out samba was better and didn't suck as much ;)
May 20 07:24:52 <Macer> did uid mapping also which was nice
May 20 07:25:21 <Macer> uid and gid mappings to keep permissions
May 20 07:25:32 <Macer> i think samba has a set mask for both
May 20 07:26:07 <mavhc> there's package managers for mac, there's at least 3 for windows, but without open source software they can't not suck
May 20 07:26:32 <Macer> mac has macports :)
May 20 07:27:02 <Macer> which actually works quite well .. but i use it on my laptop so it doesn't serve much of a purpose
May 20 07:27:09 <Macer> i should run osx86 on my k45
May 20 07:27:25 <macmaN6789> yeah macports is something at least
May 20 07:27:29 <Veggen> mavch That's basically because Windows' process-model sucks, and the cost of starting a new process was way too high, there...
May 20 07:27:31 <timeless_mbp> Stskeeps: SFU still exists
May 20 07:27:37 <Veggen> Wasn't that necessary on *nix.
May 20 07:27:37 <timeless_mbp> although i think they might have renamed it (again)
May 20 07:27:38 <mavhc> mac GUI sucks anyway
May 20 07:27:41 <Macer> macports works way beter than this disgusting cygwin ports
May 20 07:27:49 <Macer> at least you can install it easily
May 20 07:27:50 <timeless_mbp> Veggen: bah
May 20 07:27:54 <Macer> cygwin ports install is broken
May 20 07:27:55 <timeless_mbp> the linux process model is wrose
May 20 07:28:02 <timeless_mbp> worse
May 20 07:28:15 <Macer> mavhc: i agree. i don't like the mac gui
May 20 07:28:27 <thux> always wondered why people use windows so much
May 20 07:28:29 <Macer> wonder if i can replace it but still run the mac apps :)
May 20 07:28:40 <timeless_mbp> thux: windows just works
May 20 07:28:42 <Macer> thux: because of awesome marketing by ms :)
May 20 07:28:59 <Veggen> thux: Oh, that one is easy. Everyone uses windows because everyone uses windows.
May 20 07:29:08 <timeless_mbp> Macer: um, ms doesn't really do that much marketing
May 20 07:29:08 <Macer> lol
May 20 07:29:28 <timeless_mbp> i'm fairly confident that apple does more proportionally
May 20 07:29:55 <Macer> timeless_mbp: i think you missed the earlier conversation about gnu vs dictatorships
May 20 07:29:57 <thux> but even nmap is hard to run well in xp sp2 or later
May 20 07:29:58 <Macer> :)
May 20 07:30:02 <mavhc> because it's cheaper
May 20 07:30:30 <Veggen> timeless: hmm. I'm not so sure what they do vis avis the OEM channel, to make them so dedicated MS-pushers....
May 20 07:33:06 <Macer> would also be nice if this damn cygwin setup program would have some goddamn search to it
May 20 07:35:54 <Veggen> but Windows "just works" is something I don't hear that often :)
May 20 07:36:30 <ShadowJK> heh
May 20 07:36:56 <Veggen> I think it might be true, though, if you have competent users. The problem is that you don't, and Windows has been touted as a no-training-necessary-system for so long...
May 20 07:37:49 <ShadowJK> I find most things harder to do in windows, but that's probably becausebi'm used to nix
May 20 07:38:28 <ShadowJK> but the funniest situation was when neighbour bought a wlan adapter for his pc
May 20 07:38:41 <Veggen> My bold statement is that for non-competent users with relatively simple needs (i.e. no Windows-only programs), a well configured Linux is much better.
May 20 07:39:11 <ShadowJK> even with the included driver disc we couldn't figure out anyway to make it do anything...
May 20 07:39:56 <thux> ShadowJK: I agree, most things are harder to do in windows
May 20 07:39:58 <Veggen> I have a friend or two with empiric evidence of that, even. Don't do too much Linux-pushing myself, but those that do, normally do it on the non-competent WIndows users about the 5th time they do spyware/virus cleaning of their computer...
May 20 07:39:59 <ShadowJK> pluggef it into my linux box and it 'just worked', which sure as hell surprised me
May 20 07:40:18 <ShadowJK> my
May 20 07:40:25 <timeless_mbp> Veggen: a well configured Linux system, who can find
May 20 07:40:55 <Macer> hm. i should try building something with cygwin and see if it works
May 20 07:40:57 <ShadowJK> own experience dealing with inexperienced users is that nothing is easy to use
May 20 07:40:58 <Macer> like mplayer or something
May 20 07:40:59 <Veggen> timeless: I think those hardware-vendors aren't that competent.
May 20 07:41:05 <thux> http://seclists.org/nmap-hackers/2004/0007.html
May 20 07:41:35 <Veggen> but I agree - the perfect OS doesn't exist. Sometimes Windows sucks more, sometimes it's Linux that sucks.
May 20 07:42:09 <Veggen> For my use and my skills, it's definitely Windows that sucks more.
May 20 07:42:16 <ShadowJK> and there is no "intuitive" interfaces or programs. doesnt exit.
May 20 07:42:17 * timeless_mbp shrugs
May 20 07:42:18 <ShadowJK> exist
May 20 07:42:22 <timeless_mbp> you clearly don't do enough programming
May 20 07:42:29 <timeless_mbp> linux as a dev base is bad :)
May 20 07:43:11 <timeless_mbp> btw the line i wrote above 'who can find' is a reference to Proverbs 31
May 20 07:43:14 <ShadowJK> XP out of the box is actually the easiest for newbies so far, I think. The bright colours make it easy to learn the concept of a window, and easier to recognize where they start and where they end...
May 20 07:43:33 <aquatix> except that they don't know how to use a mouse
May 20 07:43:38 <ShadowJK> learning how the widgets work, and where they start and where they end, and what is cilickable and what is not, and what they do, however, takes as long as with any other thing
May 20 07:43:47 <ShadowJK> there is that too :)
May 20 07:44:05 * aquatix saw his granddads struggle with that :)
May 20 07:44:14 <ShadowJK> I actually switched to Linux originally because I wanted to program stuff and windows had no compiler :)
May 20 07:44:35 <ShadowJK> but a friend of mine told me linux came with a C compiler for free
May 20 07:45:05 <ShadowJK> after a week he told me of 'man' command :)
May 20 07:45:10 <timeless_mbp> ShadowJK: heh
May 20 07:45:18 <timeless_mbp> note that there are a number of free compilers for windows
May 20 07:45:25 <timeless_mbp> so the argument is fairly lame
May 20 07:45:32 <ShadowJK> Yeah I actually found one
May 20 07:45:33 <thux> also kernel modification is easier in linux, even me can compile or patch it, but i have no clue how to patch win kernel
May 20 07:45:37 <ShadowJK> I think it was called lcc
May 20 07:45:38 <timeless_mbp> and unlike w/ linux, the free compilers for windows don't suck
May 20 07:45:47 <ShadowJK> there was also djgbpp iirc
May 20 07:45:49 <timeless_mbp> well, there were a bunch, djgpp was one
May 20 07:45:58 <timeless_mbp> borland had a free one
May 20 07:46:08 <timeless_mbp> depending on time, there was openwatcom or digitalmars
May 20 07:46:16 <ShadowJK> I never figured out how to do anything with borland :)
May 20 07:46:20 <timeless_mbp> and for recent memory, you've been able to get a free compiler from microsoft
May 20 07:46:25 <suihkulokki> ShadowJK: XP out of box was also so vulnerable that it would get Blaster worm infection faster than you could download the fix for it from windowsupdate :P
May 20 07:46:31 <timeless_mbp> (since 2001 or so?)
May 20 07:46:53 <timeless_mbp> suihkulokki: you're looking at the box wrong
May 20 07:47:03 <timeless_mbp> XP out of the box wasn't vulnerable when it shipped
May 20 07:47:18 <timeless_mbp> it was vulnerable later
May 20 07:47:18 <timeless_mbp> take a linux distro from 2001 and set it up on a computer
May 20 07:47:19 <ShadowJK> I guess the combination of getting man pages, compiler and editor installed by default was the thing that really made it for me
May 20 07:47:45 <thux> also installing programs is harder in windows, with linux you just use apt-get yum emerge or such
May 20 07:47:45 <timeless_mbp> then check a web site to find out how many vulnerabilities it has
May 20 07:48:11 * ShadowJK couldn't afford to stay online more than an hour or so per day in those days, so searching libc functions online wasnt an option :)
May 20 07:48:27 <timeless_mbp> first, i think you'll find that your distro won't be supported today by your vendor
May 20 07:48:27 <timeless_mbp> which might mean you don't get any software updates
May 20 07:49:07 <thux> i switched to linux cause it is easier to use for newbie like me
May 20 07:50:00 <ShadowJK> But anyway, XP is pretty nice as long as you dont install software... But when the user then buys a printer or digital camera and installs the software disc, suddenly instead of having XP'S UI, they now have  new UIs that use different looking widgets and primitives, as well as having different logic and workflow compared to the XP they just started struggling with :(
May 20 07:50:07 <suihkulokki> timeless_mbp: it did happen. I had a friend who bought a new XP machine, plugged into internet, XP proceed to download fixes and before the download finished the machine was infected and the friend was calling me :P
May 20 07:50:49 <ShadowJK> which is a bit of a shame, since XP has perfectly usable and friendly interface for dealing both with printers and digital cameras, as well as burning CDs and stuff, no need for all the confusing third party software really
May 20 07:51:30 <ShadowJK> suihkulokki: yeah but "properly setup" Machine comes with latest XP updates anyway ;p
May 20 07:52:04 * ShadowJK ponders how to get rid of the capitalization statusbarwhen using bluetooth keyboard
May 20 07:54:14 <timeless_mbp> suihkulokki: your friend should have had a router protecting the box :)
May 20 07:54:25 <timeless_mbp> ShadowJK: in Mer or Diablo?
May 20 07:54:34 <ShadowJK> diablo
May 20 07:54:38 <timeless_mbp> in diablo the text input control panel let you turn that stuff off
May 20 07:54:48 <timeless_mbp> unless you actually want it for the non bt keyboards
May 20 07:54:57 <timeless_mbp> in which case, i don't think we're that granular
May 20 07:55:19 <ShadowJK> (N800)
May 20 07:55:50 <ShadowJK> Id want it to go away when I use the bluetooth keyboard, and I'd want normal stylus/finger onscreen keyboards available when bluetooth keyboard isnt connected :)
May 20 07:56:15 <ShadowJK> right now I get this N810-likee capitalization statusbar with bluetooth keyboard on N800 :)
May 20 07:58:04 <ShadowJK> hm
May 20 07:58:35 <ShadowJK> I turned off all the auto stuff under dictionaries in text input in control panel but it's still doing it :)
May 20 08:00:22 <ShadowJK> on N810 it goes away with shift-space when using the hw keyboard, doesn't seem to work witht bluetooth keyboard on n800 though :\
May 20 08:01:50 * ShadowJK looks at the blinking update notification on N810..
May 20 08:02:07 <ShadowJK> usbcontrol...
May 20 08:05:33 <ShadowJK> konttori: "Unable to update usbcontrol, Application packages missing: python-dbus"
May 20 08:06:31 <ShadowJK> (diablo)
May 20 08:06:52 <ShadowJK> id guess depending on python2.5-dbus would be better :)
May 20 08:09:53 <ShadowJK> ah there we go, input statusbar gone :)
May 20 08:10:24 <ShadowJK> I missed one item... touchscreen beeped but it must've registered it somewhere else than where I was pointing :)
May 20 08:10:25 <Macer> too bad the best thing they could make is cygwin :)
May 20 08:10:26 <Macer> haha
May 20 08:10:43 <ShadowJK> cygwin is terrible :)
May 20 08:11:18 <Macer> yeah it is
May 20 08:11:20 <Macer> :)
May 20 08:11:34 <Macer> there are just a few things that i want on my win7 box
May 20 08:11:39 <Macer> like bash for one
May 20 08:12:06 <Macer> still can't believe they killed kate in ncis
May 20 08:13:16 <ShadowJK> I've made do with msys/mingw
May 20 08:14:42 <Macer> i wonder if i should install x with cygwin
May 20 08:20:45 <ShadowJK> oh halp now I Get no stylus or finger keyboard after disconneting bt keyboard :)
May 20 08:25:21 <ShadowJK> huh... is the search bar on wiki.maemo.org broken for anyone else on the device?
May 20 09:39:22 <Jaffa> X-Fade: confirmed #4392 looks fixed
May 20 09:40:24 <X-Fade> Jaffa: Yeah, was kind of a big puzzle ;)
May 20 09:40:33 <Jaffa> Of course, being logged out within a couple of hours of logging in (same browser instance) is very irritating (#2085)
May 20 09:40:45 <Jaffa> But it did make testing the fix easier ;-)
May 20 09:41:10 <RST38x> Why this is limited to couple of hours I do not understand
May 20 09:41:28 <X-Fade> It should be limited to session. (Browser close)
May 20 09:41:28 <RST38x> Even google maintains gmail logins for a couple of weeks at a time
May 20 09:42:02 <RST38x> X-Fade; Should be limited to a week or so and alow logins from multiple machines at the same time (i.e. work, home., tablet)
May 20 09:42:04 <Jaffa> X-Fade: It doesn't for me (or, I guess, RST38h)
May 20 09:42:21 <RST38x> For me it is both
May 20 09:42:25 <X-Fade> RST38x: Well, talking about security issue ;)
May 20 09:42:31 <RST38x> browser close + time
May 20 09:42:42 <X-Fade> RST38x: Ease over security, always a good thing ;)
May 20 09:42:50 <RST38x> X-Fade: I do not think it is much of a security issue really
May 20 09:42:54 <Jaffa> X-Fade: for something like maemo.org, yes
May 20 09:43:12 <RST38x> X-Fade: To make it less an issue, show all logged in sessions under the user's name on top
May 20 09:43:55 <StsN801> does maemo.org have sane backup? :P
May 20 09:43:57 <Jaffa> RST38x: could you vote for #2085? I realised I commented, but didn't vote
May 20 09:44:03 <RST38x> Jaffa: A moment
May 20 09:44:22 <Jaffa> StsN801: Yes. Tero explained it on the tmo thread about the flight sim site. But I dunno if his comment included tmo
May 20 09:44:23 <RST38x> btw, bugs.maemo.org remembers my login just fine
May 20 09:44:28 <RST38x> for days at a time
May 20 09:44:51 <X-Fade> yeah, we just need to add a 'remember me' for maemo.org
May 20 09:46:23 <Jaffa> X-Fade++
May 20 09:46:33 <StsN801> indeed
May 20 09:49:02 <Macer> well
May 20 09:49:11 <Macer> got this cygwin crap to work as an xserver in win7
May 20 09:50:38 <Macer> works pretty good
May 20 10:06:26 <mikkov_> X-Fade: here's downloads conflict http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/tabletsb/ http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/tabletbridge/
May 20 10:07:26 <X-Fade> mikkov_: Another one where the creator didn't read the warning on the form ;)
May 20 10:10:33 <X-Fade> mikkov_: I fixed it, thanks for noticing.
May 20 10:11:37 <czr> sorry for slightly OT question, any hints on when the next nokia device will come out?
May 20 10:12:20 <mikkov_> i'm pretty sure that not today
May 20 10:12:38 <X-Fade> czr: Fremantle is in beta, so things are shaping up. But no date announced yet.
May 20 10:12:56 * czr nods
May 20 10:39:21 <lardman> morning
May 20 10:40:06 <Jaffa> lo lardman
May 20 10:40:14 <lardman> hi Jaffa
May 20 10:47:37 <lardman> interesting, nVidia GTS 250 for <�100 now
May 20 11:11:54 <oDuda> here we go again...
May 20 11:12:02 <oDuda> hello all !
May 20 11:12:15 <oDuda> all waked !
May 20 11:25:12 <lcuk> lardman, thats really cheap
May 20 11:25:39 <lcuk> you could play some excell errrr do some serious scientific calculations with a nice cheap decent visual processing addin daughterboard
May 20 11:30:19 <liri> I thought that the syncevolution thing could sync N810's calendar/contacts with my evolution running on a linux desktop
May 20 11:31:16 <lcuk> liri, which calendar are you  using on n810..
May 20 11:34:44 <liri> lcuk: I installed pimloco's Dates application
May 20 11:34:49 <liri> lcuk: I don't have anything else in specific
May 20 11:36:50 <lcuk> then see whether pimloco is integrated with syncevolution and check logs and console output when attempting to sync
May 20 11:36:58 <lcuk> i know nothing about either app unfortunately
May 20 11:42:46 <lardman> lcuk: perhaps I should have been an architect, they are allowed to use 3D visualisation (games) programmes to see their designs
May 20 11:44:08 <lardman> http://digitalurban.blogspot.com/2007/02/crytek-realtime-engine-for-architecture.html nice
May 20 11:44:48 <lardman> we had thoughts of obtaining a CAD drawing of the uni and playing that in Doom 3, but none of us could be bothered to convert it. Would have been good though :)
May 20 11:45:29 <Stskeeps> hehe.. doing that in highschool in US will just make the authorities go columbine on your ass :P
May 20 11:45:35 <lardman> lol
May 20 11:46:06 <lardman> there's one chap who was always too good, he knew the maps too well, so we thought we'd level the playing field
May 20 11:46:27 <lardman> plus sniping from the top of the library would be pretty cool too
May 20 11:46:40 * derf alerts the appropriate authorities.
May 20 11:46:44 <lardman> lol
May 20 11:46:55 <derf> It's been done more than once.
May 20 11:47:05 <lardman> not over here
May 20 11:47:11 <derf> The 3D shooter map of your school, I mean.
May 20 11:47:18 <lardman> ah I see
May 20 11:47:20 <derf> Though, sniping from the library has been done, too.
May 20 11:47:24 <lardman> :)
May 20 11:47:34 <derf> Well, "book depository".
May 20 11:48:01 <Jaffa> lardman: I wrote a tool when at IBM to take the AutoCAD files and generate realtime maps of the floorplans (highlighting people's offices)
May 20 11:48:22 <derf> Actually, I don't remember if the tower at UT Austin is part of the library or not. I know the bell tower at UNC is not.
May 20 11:48:30 <derf> But both of those have had snipers.
May 20 11:48:30 <Jaffa> There was enough info to generate a Quake/UT level to explore the site, but no-one ever did (despite talking about it)
May 20 11:48:41 <lcuk> lardman, 3d has always been on the cards for architectural work, i was fascinated as a kid seeing some swanky object oriented design system that would only let you position things and move things if it was physically possible
May 20 11:48:56 <lcuk> ie you couldnt take a big couch through a door so you couldnt include it in the plans
May 20 11:49:15 <lcuk> this went down to the nuts and bolts :)  years before sims had it
May 20 11:49:37 <lardman> Jaffa: we ran out of time really, I think I have the CAD drawing somewhere around here, but PhD deadlines loomed ever closer
May 20 11:50:11 <lcuk> derf, wad files of offices are cool,  i often pondered whether all email and tasks should be delivered that way
May 20 11:50:16 <lcuk> die along the way, mail doesnt arrive
May 20 11:50:27 <lardman> lcuk: yeah it's been around for a long time, I was just reminiscing :)
May 20 11:50:33 <derf> "That task wasn't important anyway."
May 20 11:50:35 * lcuk does as well
May 20 11:50:37 <amr> is the n810 the best maemo device out atm still?
May 20 11:51:18 <lardman> yes
May 20 11:51:19 <lcuk> amr, some folks still swear by their 770s :)  "best" is subjective in most terms, "newest" is n810
May 20 11:51:20 <amr> my 770 would be useful so much but it has the stupid WSOD (again) and the retailer is being arsey
May 20 11:51:56 <amr> it looks like i can get an n810 on ebay for ~150. im thinking it would be mega useful for uni
May 20 11:53:08 <lcuk> i believe theres practically new stock for ~$200 in places, check before you shell out close to that for a second user system
May 20 11:53:25 <amr> :o
May 20 11:53:34 <lardman> new hw ought to be out soon too really
May 20 11:53:47 <lardman> as it's summer holidays now, and I guess term won't start till sept or thereabouts
May 20 11:53:47 * Myrtti huggles her n800
May 20 11:53:50 <amr> i saw 'pcworld' in the uk did them for �79 once upon a time
May 20 11:53:59 <amr> but i missed them
May 20 11:54:12 <lcuk> summer hols already?
May 20 11:54:12 <amr> well im still at uni now and will be until july
May 20 11:54:34 <lardman> exam time or project time though isn't it? I'd wait
May 20 11:54:43 <amr> exam time yeah
May 20 11:54:53 <amr> then intro lectures for things next year
May 20 11:54:57 <LinuxCode> Id wait full-stop
May 20 11:55:01 <amr> lol
May 20 11:55:09 <LinuxCode> sooner or later the replacement model has to come out
May 20 11:55:10 <lardman> yeah, well the new one should be out before next term, I bloody well hope so anyway :)
May 20 11:55:11 <amr> im very impatient
May 20 11:55:14 <amr> yeah haha
May 20 11:55:25 <lcuk> :) i would never wait for computer tech, mind you - i wouldnt buy until  i had a need for it
May 20 11:55:45 <LinuxCode> amr, besides you wont need one anymore until you start uni
May 20 11:55:55 <lardman> lcuk: well when there's a clear jump I would wait, for incremental I would just get it when I need it
May 20 11:56:01 <lcuk> LinuxCode, why dont you sell him yours :P
May 20 11:56:09 <LinuxCode> lcuk, how about, DIE
May 20 11:56:14 <LinuxCode> hehe
May 20 11:56:19 <lcuk> o_O
May 20 11:56:21 * LinuxCode uses his N810 daily
May 20 11:56:35 <amr> well im not just getting it for uni
May 20 11:56:37 * lcuk also uses LinuxCode's n810 daily
May 20 11:56:43 <amr> i used my 770 daily
May 20 11:56:49 <lcuk> (but dont tell LinuxCode)
May 20 11:56:52 <amr> but it broke before the start of the academic year
May 20 11:57:02 * LinuxCode /dev/zero's lcuk's randomly
May 20 11:57:18 <lcuk> whats my randomly
May 20 11:57:20 <lcuk> and will it hurt?
May 20 11:57:31 <LinuxCode> your N810
May 20 11:57:33 <lardman> definitely!
May 20 11:57:34 <LinuxCode> yes it will hurt
May 20 11:57:47 <LinuxCode> you will have to reflash it every time
May 20 11:57:50 <lcuk> :O u cant delete my n810
May 20 11:58:09 <LinuxCode> ok
May 20 11:58:11 <lcuk> it has the new liqbase code on it
May 20 11:58:12 <amr> its been a while since ive paid any attention to the maemo world :o
May 20 11:58:15 <amr> whats all this mer nonsense!
May 20 11:58:18 <lcuk> theres no copy anywhere
May 20 11:58:24 <lcuk> at all in the world
May 20 11:58:29 <Stskeeps> nonsense? :P
May 20 11:58:36 <lcuk> heh
May 20 11:58:37 <LinuxCode> lcuk, trying to do what that flight sim site did ?
May 20 11:58:55 <LinuxCode> that just made me think, god, how duull are they ?
May 20 11:58:58 <lcuk> LinuxCode, heh i could make a flightsim for maemo
May 20 11:59:02 <amr> oh it looks pretty
May 20 11:59:03 <lcuk> but ive got other tihngs in mind ;)
May 20 11:59:11 <LinuxCode> lcuk, im sure you do
May 20 11:59:15 <lcuk> amr, what does?
May 20 11:59:19 <amr> mer
May 20 11:59:37 <amr> im just reading about it now, im massively out of the loop
May 20 12:00:19 * lardman goes for bacon and to pay for his banns
May 20 12:00:23 <LinuxCode> +1
May 20 12:00:59 * lcuk thinks mer is gonna be really good stable linux distro
May 20 12:02:49 * lcuk might look at the omapfb problems soon
May 20 12:03:21 <lcuk> dinneritme anyway
May 20 12:12:12 <Jaffa> konttori_: ping
May 20 12:12:18 <t_s_o> hmm, i see a usbcontrol update (probably devel), with python and python-dbus dependencies...
May 20 12:13:05 <Jaffa> t_s_o: it *is* devel, I asked konttori_ to upload it for diablo yesterday. Needs a section tweak (so it's not "user/multimedia") and a new version (1.1).
May 20 12:13:12 <Jaffa> Also related to the ping I just did ;-)
May 20 12:13:56 <t_s_o> i just hope the 1.1 cleans up the deps, as the python's should be python2.5...
May 20 12:14:27 <Jaffa> t_s_o: I'll tack that on to my email to konttori_ - want to be CCed?
May 20 12:15:08 <t_s_o> no biggie
May 20 12:38:49 <Stskeeps> andre_: closing 2249 doesn't make sense
May 20 12:38:54 <Stskeeps> (afaik)
May 20 12:38:58 <Stskeeps> at least the reason
May 20 12:39:11 <Stskeeps> there's FMTX libraries in fremantle at least
May 20 12:39:42 <X-Fade> Stskeeps: That is FM transmitter?
May 20 12:39:48 <X-Fade> Stskeeps: Not receiver?
May 20 12:39:50 <Stskeeps> yeah, true
May 20 12:39:55 <Stskeeps> andre_k i meant
May 20 12:40:01 <Stskeeps> still kernels pointed to fmrx too :)
May 20 12:40:05 <Stskeeps> but nm :)
May 20 12:40:24 <X-Fade> Stskeeps: Yeah, the chip that is mentioned should be FM rx capable IIRC.
May 20 12:40:34 <Stskeeps> yeah.. which wondered me
May 20 12:42:12 <andre_k> i was told that there's no work going on for that anymore. my info might be wrong though
May 20 12:42:19 <andre_k> definitely feel free to reopen
May 20 12:42:31 <X-Fade> - FM receiver + bluetooth 2.0 (bcm2048)
May 20 12:42:43 <X-Fade> Should at least be FM radio capable ;)
May 20 12:43:01 <Stskeeps> andre_k: well the bug is probably not valida nymore :)
May 20 12:43:05 <GeneralAntilles> X-Fade, replaced with a TI chip.
May 20 12:43:34 <GeneralAntilles> X-Fade, http://focus.ti.com/general/docs/wtbu/wtbuproductcontent.tsp?templateId=6123&navigationId=12762&contentId=29993 WL1271
May 20 12:44:05 <X-Fade> GeneralAntilles: Same difference ;)
May 20 12:44:20 <X-Fade> GeneralAntilles: Has FM too?
May 20 12:50:00 <GeneralAntilles> X-Fade, has damn near everything but 802.11a
May 20 12:50:26 <X-Fade> GeneralAntilles: Yeah, quite amazing.
May 20 12:50:46 <GeneralAntilles> Should give better power saving than the Broadcom/TI combo
May 20 12:51:50 <Stskeeps> google translates windows CE to "sweet potato"
May 20 12:51:50 <Stskeeps> lovely
May 20 12:57:58 <aquatix> Stskeeps: at least it's an improvement
May 20 13:04:01 <BogdanR> Hello everybody
May 20 13:04:08 <masterdomme> hello
May 20 13:04:30 <BogdanR> I am thinking of rebuilding the FIASCO image of OS2008 but I can't find any info about that
May 20 13:05:20 <BogdanR> Can anyone give me some pointers on how to rebuild the FIASCO image
May 20 13:05:42 <Stskeeps> yeah, that's a interesting problematique - go comment on the open flasher bug
May 20 13:06:10 <Stskeeps> what do you want to do?
May 20 13:06:28 <t_s_o> any news on a green light for the community taking over the updates for diablo?
May 20 13:06:29 <BogdanR> I want to bundle my own set of applications and configurations in the image
May 20 13:07:02 <Stskeeps> right, but you are aware you cannot distribute it to anyone but yourself?
May 20 13:07:10 <Stskeeps> if so, i would just make a rootfs jffs instead
May 20 13:07:24 <BogdanR> I see
May 20 13:07:31 <BogdanR> and how do I do that?
May 20 13:07:37 <Jaffa> t_s_o: Technically it seems straightforward. I guess we just need to find time to rebuild h-a-m and a new osso-software-version-rx*
May 20 13:08:12 <t_s_o> remind me, h-a-m?
May 20 13:08:23 <Stskeeps> BogdanR: read up on mkfs.jffs2
May 20 13:08:58 <BogdanR> Actually my main question is how can I backup what's now on the device as a jffs image
May 20 13:09:17 <BogdanR> because with mkfs I just format a fs
May 20 13:09:49 <BogdanR> Stskeeps: If I make my own jffs image would I be allowed to distribute that?
May 20 13:10:06 <Jaffa> t_s_o: Hildon Application Manager. There are some useful fixes we submitted, that were merged, that can be seen in mer - but not diablo
May 20 13:10:42 <Stskeeps> BogdanR: probably not, the curse of Maemo, it's 80% open source, 20% closed
May 20 13:11:08 <t_s_o> and the 20%'s are what makes it more then a paperweight...
May 20 13:11:14 <X-Fade> Stskeeps: Although if you keep the initfs, you can do a lot?
May 20 13:11:39 <BogdanR> I thought that kernel stuff are closed source
May 20 13:12:10 <Stskeeps> X-Fade: yeah but then there's DSP codecs, most of the os2008 apps.. etc
May 20 13:12:14 <BogdanR> Mer doesn't use any of the closed source things?
May 20 13:12:18 <Stskeeps> it just gets very difficult to distinguish
May 20 13:12:36 <Stskeeps> BogdanR: we try to keep a 100% open source rootfs.. with ln -s's into initfs
May 20 13:12:42 <Stskeeps> we dont distribute initfs
May 20 13:12:48 <BogdanR> I see
May 20 13:13:04 <Stskeeps> we are working on this though and i plan to discuss it further on the copenhagen meetup :P
May 20 13:13:25 <BogdanR> Stskeeps: Can you please tell me how do I make a jffs rootfs out of my current one?
May 20 13:13:46 <BogdanR> Mer is starting to look very cool
May 20 13:14:10 <Stskeeps> BogdanR: i would boot into either mer or a cloned maemo and mount the rootfs and mkfs.jffs2 that :P
May 20 13:14:19 <BogdanR> Is .13 sprint done compiling?
May 20 13:14:53 <Stskeeps> the imager for N8x0 is building at this exact moment
May 20 13:15:14 <BogdanR> do you think it will be done today ? :)
May 20 13:18:17 <Stskeeps> i bloody hope so :P
May 20 13:30:18 <RST38x> Moo all
May 20 13:35:32 <Meizirkki> m00 RST38x
May 20 13:39:19 <lizardo> X-Fade: a much more up-to-date libffi version is already in fremantle: http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/fremantle/free/libf/libffi/
May 20 13:39:33 <lizardo> X-Fade: and it replaces libffi4 entirely
May 20 13:40:06 <X-Fade> lizardo: Yeah, I'm doing a diablo->fremantle rebuild. But some libs slipped through ;)
May 20 13:40:20 <X-Fade> lizardo: But at least it failed :D
May 20 13:41:37 <lizardo> X-Fade: yeah, but unfortunately the autobuilder only checks the package name for rejection (and note the Provides/Replaces fields), but luckly the build itself failed with a known issue (fixed in the libffi version already in extras-devel) :)
May 20 14:04:24 <X-Fade> lizardo: If you need anything from diablo -> fremantle, please let me know.
May 20 14:05:53 <lizardo> X-Fade: ok, thanks :) for PyMaemo we actually don't need anything from Diablo, as we uploaded all required packages already (pretty much all of them were updated since diablo)
May 20 14:06:12 <X-Fade> lizardo: Yeah, I figured that. But I had to ask :)
May 20 14:06:55 <lizardo> X-Fade: I'm just tracking maemo-extras-cauldron to make sure that none of the packages being uploaded replace/break the current PyMaemo set
May 20 14:07:33 <lizardo> X-Fade: but fortunately the autobuilder rejects older versions, so that has not been a problem so far :)
May 20 14:08:18 <X-Fade> lizardo: yeah, we should add even more checks soon. We need to prevent obvious breakages.
May 20 14:11:43 <lizardo> X-Fade: one possible check (not sure if easy to make) is to reject packages that are listed in Provides/Replaces/Conflicts fields of some existing package , this would detect renamed packages, for instance libffi4 -> libffi5 case
May 20 14:15:06 <lizardo> X-Fade: another one might be to reject (or at least add some big warning on the e-mail sent to the extras-cauldron) packages that are listed in "alternative dependencies" of existing packages. Example: a package named "x" which has Depends: a|b (where b is already available in the repository, and thus satisfies the dependency); then some other user uploads a package named "a", then package "x" might end up using "a" as dependency without knowing it
May 20 14:16:39 <lizardo> X-Fade: that last one was the case for the recent libclutter break
May 20 14:19:03 <fiferboy> lbt: How's it going?
May 20 14:21:18 <lbt> hi fiferboy
May 20 14:21:32 <lbt> busy job hunting today ;)
May 20 14:21:51 <fiferboy> lbt: I hear Qt is building for the next release of Mer
May 20 14:21:57 <lbt> it's done
May 20 14:22:05 <lbt> Mer Stable is just about out
May 20 14:22:11 <fiferboy> Is it included by default, or just available?
May 20 14:22:30 <lbt> it's not in the core iso
May 20 14:22:36 <lbt> but it is in the core repo
May 20 14:22:45 <fiferboy> I guess it would be too big for the core at this point
May 20 14:22:46 <X-Fade> lizardo: Current check code is here: https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/trunk/buildme/tools/buildme?revision=128&root=extras-cauldron&view=markup
May 20 14:22:49 <lbt> as is QTablet
May 20 14:22:57 <lbt> which I really must fix
May 20 14:22:58 <X-Fade> lizardo: Nice python code, you'll like it ;)
May 20 14:23:47 <X-Fade> lizardo: So if you are bored over the weekend, maybe a nice patch is a great way to spend the day? :)
May 20 14:26:45 <RST38x> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vESIVemfG8
May 20 14:27:07 <fiferboy> lbt: I just tried flickrdemo (which Antonio built at some point) with finger scrolling, and it works well.
May 20 14:27:08 <RST38x> (rather stupid usage of the opportunity, but still...)
May 20 14:27:42 <lbt> did you add it to your app?
May 20 14:28:07 <fiferboy> No, I installed it standalone from the repo
May 20 14:28:18 <lbt> I suspect it will break if you have any active widgets in your scrollarea :(
May 20 14:28:34 <fiferboy> How do you mean?
May 20 14:28:52 <lbt> it only tracks events that make it to the scrollarea
May 20 14:29:07 <lbt> so anything active will eat events b4 they get there
May 20 14:29:15 <lbt> AFAIUI
May 20 14:29:53 <fiferboy> How would I test that?
May 20 14:30:15 <lbt> try adding the flickcharm to the scrollarea on your birdlist
May 20 14:30:43 <fiferboy> Ah, sorry I was talking about flickrdemo, a Flickr photo viewer.
May 20 14:31:04 <fiferboy> I meant that I ran it using your finger scroll library with no issues.
May 20 14:31:05 <lbt> flickr.... d'oh
May 20 14:31:40 <fiferboy> I haven't tried my flickcharm birdlist with the finger scroll libraries.  I didn't think there was much point
May 20 14:33:07 <amr> im looking at n810s and im losing the ability to say no!
May 20 14:34:06 <X-Fade> amr: While it is getting older, it doesn't mean it sucks ;)
May 20 14:34:49 <amr> i never said it sucks
May 20 14:34:51 <amr> i want one :p
May 20 14:34:56 <kfx> now's the time
May 20 14:35:00 <Stskeeps> just dont get it for the gps
May 20 14:35:05 <kfx> I bought mine like two weeks ago and now it's way cheaper
May 20 14:35:10 <amr> how much did you pay?
May 20 14:35:19 <amr> Stskeeps, whys that?
May 20 14:35:28 <X-Fade> Stskeeps: I made 3 full day hikes this week. No problem with fixes what so ever.
May 20 14:35:46 <kfx> I paid $240, now buy.com has 'em for $200
May 20 14:35:53 <amr> really? hmm
May 20 14:35:57 <amr> i wonder if they ship internationally
May 20 14:36:05 <amr> im looking at ~ 150
May 20 14:36:08 <amr> GBP
May 20 14:36:11 <X-Fade> Stskeeps: Really weird but it fixed within a minute and didn't have any problems..
May 20 14:36:12 <kfx> ah
May 20 14:36:18 <amr> so thats about 230 dollars?
May 20 14:36:26 <kfx> yeah, more or less
May 20 14:36:40 <lizardo> X-Fade: I would love to help, if I have some time maybe... But if I read the code correctly, the only check currectly if for a package with same name but lower version (in check_sources()) ?
May 20 14:36:41 <kfx> if you buy at that price it will make me feel less stupid for buying at the price I did :D
May 20 14:36:42 * Jaffa has had relatively good performance from the GPS recently too
May 20 14:36:47 <amr> haha
May 20 14:36:57 <amr> well ive enquired about getting one for 120
May 20 14:37:01 <amr> bnib from ebay
May 20 14:37:10 <amr> so heres hoping
May 20 14:37:40 <amr> i might just get it anyway
May 20 14:37:55 <amr> did you have any previous tablets kfx ?
May 20 14:37:57 <lizardo> X-Fade: anyway, I need to give more thought about the checks I proposed, I'm pretty sure there are unhandled cases on them :)
May 20 14:38:50 <kfx> amr: actually, I moved from carrying a nokia e61 and an acer aspire one to just the n810 and an s40 (non smart)phone
May 20 14:38:51 <X-Fade> lizardo: Yeah, but at least covering the obvious ones will help.
May 20 14:39:02 <amr> oh nice
May 20 14:39:12 <amr> ive got an s60 phone
May 20 14:39:22 <amr> i had the 770, but i broke it :p
May 20 14:39:27 <amr> i loved that thing
May 20 14:39:36 <amr> and buy.com dont ship intl, how disappointing :(
May 20 14:39:52 <kfx> I like the e61 but I don't like closed-source stuff
May 20 14:40:05 <kfx> and now that I've messed with maemo I hope nokia drops symbian for it, to be honest
May 20 14:40:09 <amr> yeah
May 20 14:40:41 <kfx> moblin looks like it'll be a tough competitor
May 20 14:40:58 <kfx> but since it's linux, we can just steal all the good stuff :D
May 20 14:41:07 <amr> lol
May 20 14:41:18 <lbt> so where is flikrdemo?
May 20 14:41:34 <amr> the n800 doesnt have the keyboard does it?
May 20 14:41:40 <lbt> no
May 20 14:41:42 <kfx> right
May 20 14:41:44 <amr> gay
May 20 14:41:49 <amr> hmmm
May 20 14:41:55 <amr> i can get them for ~60 by the looks of it
May 20 14:42:09 <lbt> that's a lot... keep looking
May 20 14:42:50 <amr> id rather just get the n810
May 20 14:42:58 <amr> if i can get it for 120 ill probs go for it
May 20 14:43:05 <lbt> nah, the new one's just coming out
May 20 14:43:11 <lbt> then prices will plummet
May 20 14:43:22 <amr> how soon is the new one coming out
May 20 14:43:32 <lbt> couple weeks maybe
May 20 14:43:35 <amr> oh thats alright then
May 20 14:43:38 <lbt> or couple months
May 20 14:43:43 <lbt> or maybe longer
May 20 14:43:45 <lopz> hola
May 20 14:43:49 <amr> gash.
May 20 14:45:01 <lbt> fiferboy: flickrdemo is building for Mer
May 20 14:46:03 <fiferboy> lbt: Nice
May 20 14:47:06 <Jaffa> amr: If I knew when the new one was coming out, I'd sell you my N810 ;-)
May 20 14:49:08 <gentooer> are there any phones based on maemo?
May 20 14:49:17 <lbt> freerunner can run Mer
May 20 14:49:32 <fiferboy> lbt: I am going to try to do a build of your branch so I can play around with some things like accessor functions
May 20 14:49:44 <lbt> hmm
May 20 14:49:53 <lbt> nothing committed anywhere yet
May 20 14:50:05 <lbt> ... but did you see the gitorious comments
May 20 14:50:12 <lbt> on qt4-dev
May 20 14:50:18 <lbt> \o/
May 20 14:50:19 <fiferboy> Yes
May 20 14:51:11 <fiferboy> You could have your own patch branch
May 20 14:51:18 <lbt> yep
May 20 14:51:52 <lbt> and a Mer branch that bases on maemo + extra cherries
May 20 14:53:00 <fiferboy> I wonder how soon that will happen.
May 20 14:53:19 <fiferboy> lbt: How many source files do you touch with your changes?
May 20 14:53:39 <lbt> it used to be 2
May 20 14:53:48 <lbt> now I think 4-5
May 20 14:54:06 <lbt> it's in a branch in local git repo though
May 20 14:55:02 <fiferboy> You could send me those file and I could apply them to my SVN checkout, but then we would have no way to sync changes...
May 20 14:57:45 <lbt> just looking at the repo I have
May 20 14:57:55 <lbt> meh
May 20 14:58:12 <lbt> it's incremental over basic fingerscrolling
May 20 14:59:15 <lbt> I'll send it anyway
May 20 15:01:35 <fiferboy> Thanks, I doubt I'll be able to make any useful contributions anyways ;)
May 20 15:03:18 <amr> Jaffa, sell me it anyway
May 20 15:03:19 <amr> :p
May 20 15:04:00 <lbt> sent
May 20 15:04:08 <fiferboy> lbt: Got it, thanks!
May 20 15:04:33 <fiferboy> This is going to be a painful build, so we'll see if I even get it fully compiled.
May 20 15:13:05 <fiferboy> lbt: In theory if I am just interested in libQtGui.so files, I should be able to build without XML, webkit, SQL, etc correct?
May 20 15:22:12 <lbt> fiferboy: yes
May 20 15:22:14 <lbt> but
May 20 15:22:36 <lbt> not using the debian buildpkg approach
May 20 15:23:00 <lbt> you may want to run debuild and then stop it when it starts to compile
May 20 15:23:25 <lbt> then find the build dir and cd to BUILD/src/gui
May 20 15:23:29 <lbt> and run a make there
May 20 15:23:38 <lbt> should produce ../libGui.so
May 20 15:23:39 <fiferboy> Ah, that sounds like a good start.
May 20 15:23:41 <fiferboy> Thanks.
May 20 15:24:46 <fiferboy> lbt: I'll stop bugging you now and let you get back to the job hunt.
May 20 15:25:09 <fiferboy> Good luck with that, I know it's never fun.
May 20 15:25:09 <lbt> NP... jobs was this morning
May 20 15:25:16 <fiferboy> Ah.
May 20 15:25:55 <lbt> I have to polish up a CV for a role for tomorrow but that's all
May 20 15:28:16 <fiferboy> Gotcha
May 20 15:30:11 <GAN800> kfx, Moblin is targetting netbooks, not tabkets
May 20 15:31:34 <kfx> GAN800: moblin's ui would work just as well as hildon on a tablet, I think
May 20 15:32:34 <fiferboy> lbt: I've started the compile.  I should be able to tell you by the end of the week if it was successful ;)
May 20 15:36:34 <Jaffa> kfx: The screenshots of Moblin 2.0 at 1024x600 have tiny little controls which'd suck on a tablet
May 20 15:37:02 <Jaffa> I get pissed off with the current time selector, so I might kill someone if they got smaller and more fiddly (even with a stylus)
May 20 15:37:35 <mib_d22bkd> hello
May 20 15:37:59 <mib_d22bkd> is there somebody?
May 20 15:38:29 <mgedmin> there is somebody out there
May 20 15:38:42 <Jaffa> I thought it was just us chickens
May 20 15:39:44 <mgedmin> *chirp* *chirp*, say the crickets
May 20 15:48:47 <mib_d22bkd> hi, i am back again
May 20 15:49:04 <mib_d22bkd> does somebody can help me? my problem is...
May 20 15:49:43 <mib_d22bkd> i have install ubuntu on nokia n800 and it boots till 99% and stops
May 20 15:49:57 <mib_d22bkd> what is wrong ?
May 20 15:50:14 <mgedmin> it stops
May 20 15:50:22 <mgedmin> I'm pretty sure that's wrong
May 20 15:50:31 <amr> moblin looks pretty cool
May 20 15:50:33 <kfx> XD
May 20 15:50:54 <mib_d22bkd> i wanna to test ubuntu, after this i wil test other distros
May 20 15:51:00 <mib_d22bkd> so, anybody can help me?
May 20 15:51:02 <mgedmin> do you get any startup messages, or just a splash screen?
May 20 15:51:44 <mib_d22bkd> splash screen and progress bar on bottom is going till around. 99%
May 20 15:52:01 <mgedmin> can you try booting in rescue mode to see what's happening?
May 20 15:52:10 <mgedmin> how long did you wait? maybe it's still busy doing something?
May 20 15:52:24 <mgedmin> the ubuntu progress bar is not very reliable, in my observation
May 20 15:52:38 <mib_d22bkd> 10minutes...
May 20 15:53:01 <mib_d22bkd> ok, i wil find how to boot in rescue, then i will tell whats wrong
May 20 15:53:39 <mgedmin> ooh, 10 minutes certainly ought to be enough
May 20 15:53:41 <lbt> mib_d22bkd: you know that Mer is essentially ubuntu 9.04 for N8x0 don't you?
May 20 15:54:01 <mgedmin> lbt: that's a good tagline; I never considered it in that way before
May 20 15:54:01 <lbt> but actually optimised to work
May 20 15:54:12 <mib_d22bkd> hmm... but, is Mer has polish-locale?
May 20 15:54:37 <lbt> the main dev has a polish girlfriend...
May 20 15:54:46 <lbt> IIRC
May 20 15:55:00 <mib_d22bkd> ;]
May 20 15:55:50 <mib_d22bkd> ok, i have rescue mode, what now?
May 20 15:56:18 <mib_d22bkd> active console on framebuffer?
May 20 15:57:42 <mib_d22bkd> ok, its boot in console... waiting; ]
May 20 15:57:46 <amr> oh bugger it
May 20 15:57:49 <amr> im buying this n810
May 20 15:57:53 <amr> with SD card and mini usb cable
May 20 15:58:24 <mib_d22bkd> ok, i found that xserver canot open (/etc/default/x-derver.defs)
May 20 15:58:49 <mgedmin> is that a problem?  there's no such file on my laptop
May 20 15:59:01 <mib_d22bkd> i found this (It might be that the xserver doesn't start, download this file http://bazaar.launchpad.net/%7Emer-c...bx-3/xorg.conf (xorg.conf that Mer uses) and put it in /etc/X11/ and see if it helps)
May 20 15:59:11 <mib_d22bkd> may it help?
May 20 16:00:23 <mib_d22bkd> hmm... i wil go right now for testing...
May 20 16:00:39 <GAN800> kfx, what Jaffa said, it's aint no mobile UI.
May 20 16:01:37 <amr> i know this is a 'go google it' question
May 20 16:01:49 <mib_d22bkd> :)
May 20 16:01:51 <amr> but are there any decent mail clients that can handle exchange?
May 20 16:02:07 <amr> or OWA
May 20 16:02:29 <lbt> outlook is quite nice really
May 20 16:02:44 <amr> for maemo
May 20 16:03:20 <lbt> you are aware they run linux?
May 20 16:03:26 <amr> yes of course i am
May 20 16:03:46 <lbt> and exchange integration is a challenge on a full blown desktop?
May 20 16:03:59 <amr> i have no idea, i dont use linux on the desktop
May 20 16:04:02 <amr> and last time i did, it was
May 20 16:04:15 <lbt> and these devices have 128Mb of RAM
May 20 16:04:30 <amr> are you just going to dance around the question all day?
May 20 16:04:53 <amr> simple really, is there a client i can use to connect to my OWA account so i dont have to use the shitty web client?
May 20 16:06:19 <Jaffa> No
May 20 16:06:19 <kfx> lbt is hinting at "no"
May 20 16:06:36 <amr> thank you, simple enough
May 20 16:06:38 <amr> :)
May 20 16:06:57 <kfx> the problem isn't limited to exchange
May 20 16:07:15 <lbt> [17:01] <amr> i know this is a 'go google it' question  <--- so I was assuming you did and explained the background a bit...
May 20 16:07:25 <amr> oic
May 20 16:07:37 <kfx> I was looking at writing a small pim suite that would use EDS and sync to something non-google
May 20 16:07:51 <kfx> but there doesn't really appear to be a useable standard regarding the matter
May 20 16:07:55 <amr> lol
May 20 16:08:14 <kfx> which makes me less irked at google for reinventing the wheel with google calendar et al
May 20 16:08:19 <kfx> but still leaves me in the lurch
May 20 16:08:20 <lbt> kfx gpe
May 20 16:08:27 <lbt> and caldav
May 20 16:08:39 <lbt> gpe uses ical now
May 20 16:08:41 <amr> yeah, my college has a google account set up so i can use university things
May 20 16:08:50 <amr> but i wouldnt have access to my main university mail
May 20 16:08:53 <lbt> and you can run egroupware with caldav
May 20 16:08:55 <kfx> gpe is cumbersome and imo not suited for the tablet at all
May 20 16:08:58 <amr> i suppose i could just forward, like everyone else
May 20 16:09:27 <kfx> it'd be less work to "fix" the pimlico tools than to fix gpe
May 20 16:09:33 * lbt likes gpe-calendar much better than nothing
May 20 16:09:51 * lbt would like qpe though...
May 20 16:09:53 <amr> part of my reasoning to get another tablet was how useful itd be while im at lectures
May 20 16:09:59 <amr> means i dont have to bring my laptop to check things quickly
May 20 16:10:36 <amr> oh what am i talking about
May 20 16:10:43 <amr> the uni just added imap support, thats me sorted hah
May 20 16:10:50 <kfx> does qt still treat c as a second-class language?
May 20 16:11:09 <lbt> rightly so
May 20 16:11:15 <kfx> yeah, not interested
May 20 16:11:35 <kfx> at least I can code gtk without clumsy object garbage
May 20 16:11:50 <lbt> heh, welcome to the 90's
May 20 16:12:16 <kfx> yuk it up, I remember when c++ was just a huge, ugly c preprocessor
May 20 16:12:23 <kfx> and to a great extent it hasn't gotten any better
May 20 16:12:55 * lcuk keeps pondering examining cfront
May 20 16:13:23 <lbt> yeah... OO will never catch on... dunno what I'm thinking
May 20 16:13:53 <kfx> iirc cfront died because it didn't do exception handling? I could be wrong about that
May 20 16:14:07 <luke-jr> kfx: it's not a big deal if you code things correctly ;)
May 20 16:14:16 <luke-jr> eg, GUI is just an interface to a CLI app
May 20 16:14:24 <kfx> I remember watching with great amusement as people wondered how to get cfront running, because it was written in c++, and you needed cfront to build it...
May 20 16:14:28 <lcuk> i have no qualms with oo - its very very good, but the butchering from qt to force c++ into runtime OO with meta info and stuff seems a bit ott
May 20 16:14:50 <luke-jr> lcuk: Qt and C++ are two different languages
May 20 16:14:52 <kfx> oo in general is okay for tremendously huge projects with dozens of developers
May 20 16:14:57 <luke-jr> Qt is to C++ what C++ is to C
May 20 16:15:06 <kfx> but for most applications that level of abstraction is just a waste of time
May 20 16:15:09 <lbt> (nb they are the ones that actually hire people BTW)
May 20 16:15:11 <lcuk> i have to agree
May 20 16:15:56 <timeless_mbp> luke-jr: um
May 20 16:16:07 <timeless_mbp> Qt:C++ :: GObject:C
May 20 16:16:22 <timeless_mbp> they both hack the language so much that it isn't the language you thought you knew
May 20 16:16:32 <luke-jr> timeless_mbp: no comment on GTK, I don't touch it
May 20 16:16:48 <timeless_mbp> luke-jr:i have no love for any of them
May 20 16:16:54 <lcuk> qt is actually c++ with some mashing to force it to make meta info available - generically runtime type info isnt available i think
May 20 16:16:59 <timeless_mbp> and i'm picking GObject not GTK
May 20 16:17:01 <luke-jr> C++ has an entirely different stdlib, and a few syntax changes (from C)
May 20 16:17:14 <luke-jr> Qt likewise, has an entirely different stdlib, and a few syntax changes (from C++)
May 20 16:17:30 <luke-jr> timeless_mbp: GObject is part of GTK
May 20 16:17:32 <lcuk> mind you, every library has its isms
May 20 16:17:41 <lcuk> its whether or not it requires language retraining
May 20 16:18:18 * kfx decides to write all his maemo stuff with xlib
May 20 16:18:27 <luke-jr> timeless_mbp: I draw the line when "Hello World" changes
May 20 16:18:35 <timeless_mbp> luke-jr: it's a building block
May 20 16:18:49 <timeless_mbp> you can build something that doesn't resemble or relate to GTK from GObject
May 20 16:19:00 <luke-jr> if a glib "Hello World" is different from a C "Hello World", then fine
May 20 16:19:12 <luke-jr> but I consider GObject/glib to be part of GTK
May 20 16:19:34 <timeless_mbp> what's the fremantle widget set called? :)
May 20 16:20:02 <timeless_mbp> oh, Clutter!
May 20 16:21:39 <Stskeeps> luke-jr: you consider gconf part of GTK :P
May 20 16:21:54 <luke-jr> Stskeeps: no, I consider gconf part of GNOME
May 20 16:21:56 <timeless_mbp> are MAFW and Clutter part of GTK?
May 20 16:22:20 <luke-jr> [I] gnome-base/gconf
May 20 16:22:23 <luke-jr>      Description:         Gnome Configuration System and Daemon
May 20 16:23:13 <Jaffa> luke-jr: GObject/glib is a separate project. I can write a Vala program depending on glib with no libgtk dependency
May 20 16:23:34 <kfx> oh lord, gconf
May 20 16:23:36 <timeless_mbp> luke-jr: it's true that historically GObject was written for use by GTK
May 20 16:23:46 <timeless_mbp> but w/ time it is possible to distinguish them
May 20 16:23:51 <kfx> gconf is the result of the gnome devs seeing the windows registry and thinking "what a great idea"
May 20 16:24:00 <timeless_mbp> kfx: and getting it all wrong :)
May 20 16:24:08 <kfx> not like there's a way to get that right
May 20 16:24:24 <timeless_mbp> ms's impl isn't really that bad
May 20 16:24:25 <luke-jr> Jaffa: they're the same in my book
May 20 16:24:30 <luke-jr> I want neither on my PC
May 20 16:24:50 <derf> timeless_mbp: Have you ever tried to _use_ MS's API, though?
May 20 16:24:55 <timeless_mbp> derf: yes
May 20 16:24:56 <kfx> the whole idea is nasty
May 20 16:24:56 <derf> It is abominable.
May 20 16:25:14 <timeless_mbp> kfx: you prefer each app to have its own private arbitrary settings format
May 20 16:25:23 <timeless_mbp> which it randomly misplaces throughout your file system?
May 20 16:25:24 <derf> gconf's implementation may suck, but at least I can write code for it in a reasonable manner.
May 20 16:25:24 <kfx> timeless_mbp: don't put words in my mouth
May 20 16:25:36 <timeless_mbp> derf: *cough*
May 20 16:25:40 <kfx> I prefer programs to have configuration settings editable without a gui
May 20 16:25:50 <timeless_mbp> the gconf consuming code i've read is awful
May 20 16:25:56 <kfx> and furthermore, if the program puts its config in the wrong place, patch the source to fix it
May 20 16:26:08 <timeless_mbp> kfx: oh sure, that works well for mathematica
May 20 16:26:14 <timeless_mbp> or a large project
May 20 16:26:27 <kfx> I don't use mathematica for reasons like this
May 20 16:26:41 <timeless_mbp> i'm not claiming mathematica uses the registry
May 20 16:26:52 <luke-jr> if we have a centralized registry, at least make it not have crappy dependencies
May 20 16:26:54 <timeless_mbp> it probably doesn't, it's merely a way for me to avoid singling out the usual suspects
May 20 16:26:55 <kfx> any program too poorly-written to be brought in line doesn't run on my servers, fully stop
May 20 16:27:20 <timeless_mbp> kfx: i presume you don't run apache :)
May 20 16:27:41 <kfx> apache can be brought in line
May 20 16:27:53 <kfx> I don't run, for instance, netbeans
May 20 16:28:07 * timeless_mbp shrugs
May 20 16:28:11 <kfx> it was a long fight to get the department to migrate away from it, too
May 20 16:28:20 <timeless_mbp> to what, eclipse?
May 20 16:28:25 <kfx> but it's the 21st century and I don't have to tolerate shoddy design
May 20 16:28:29 <kfx> to geany
May 20 16:28:32 <timeless_mbp> heh
May 20 16:28:46 <timeless_mbp> afaict, geany isn't in the same league
May 20 16:28:48 <lcuk> timeless_mbp, what do you prefer coding in
May 20 16:28:51 <kfx> it's not
May 20 16:28:52 <lcuk> deep in the bowels of c?
May 20 16:28:54 <timeless_mbp> which isn't to say one league is better than another
May 20 16:29:03 <timeless_mbp> lcuk: notepad - javascript
May 20 16:29:03 <amr> anyone here use boingo ?
May 20 16:29:09 <kfx> but our job is to teach programming, not to teach students how to stitch java libraries together
May 20 16:29:15 <derf> AFAICT, the 21st century has even more shoddy design than the 20th.
May 20 16:29:18 <lcuk> ewwww js
May 20 16:29:20 <lcuk> :P
May 20 16:29:22 <lcuk> bbl
May 20 16:29:34 <Jaffa> kfx: University?
May 20 16:29:37 <timeless_mbp> lcuk: js = lightweight, and you get cool JITs today
May 20 16:29:39 <kfx> Jaffa: yeah
May 20 16:30:05 <timeless_mbp> kfx: for a uni... i dunno... it depends on the kind of project
May 20 16:30:21 <timeless_mbp> i used Netbeans (and even did some qa/testing/etc w/ it) 8+years ago
May 20 16:30:30 <kfx> I think you'll find the more advanced a student gets into computer science the less she makes use of huge piles of IDE
May 20 16:30:30 <timeless_mbp> in college
May 20 16:30:36 <kfx> at least in the unix wprld
May 20 16:30:38 <kfx> s/p/o/;
May 20 16:30:42 * timeless_mbp shrugs
May 20 16:30:51 <timeless_mbp> i use notepad or equivalents most of the time
May 20 16:31:08 <kfx> if notepad could display line numbers it would be great
May 20 16:31:10 <timeless_mbp> however, i will use an IDE (XCode, msdev, netbeans)
May 20 16:31:20 <timeless_mbp> kfx: ctrl-g will tell you the current line number
May 20 16:31:31 <timeless_mbp> (as long as you turn off line wrap)
May 20 16:31:43 <kfx> I'm to the point where I can't use a text editor that doesn't support regular expressions
May 20 16:31:46 * Jaffa wouldn't do any professional programming without an IDE (even if it's just to manage a collection of files, syntax highlighting, Java/perldoc lookup and present some svn info) these days
May 20 16:31:48 <kfx> but I'm pretty far gone
May 20 16:32:07 <timeless_mbp> kfx: i do most of my regexp's w/ perl
May 20 16:32:19 <timeless_mbp> i can write regexps in msdev or xcode or whatever
May 20 16:32:33 <timeless_mbp> but inevitably i have to learn that stupid app's variation of regexps
May 20 16:32:38 <timeless_mbp> which isn't worth it
May 20 16:32:49 <timeless_mbp> the app will tell me if the file changed on disk and offer to reload
May 20 16:32:51 <kfx> vi does enough for me
May 20 16:32:54 <timeless_mbp> (yay IDE!)
May 20 16:33:02 <kfx> if I'm hacking on something huge I'll use vim with taglist
May 20 16:33:19 <timeless_mbp> fwiw, i often use vi, but really vi, not vim
May 20 16:33:28 <timeless_mbp> for me, vi is basically notepad
May 20 16:33:35 <timeless_mbp> i don't use visual mode
May 20 16:33:50 <kfx> command mode is where it's at
May 20 16:33:55 <timeless_mbp> i use a very limited feature set (find, delete, go to line)
May 20 16:34:04 <timeless_mbp> otoh
May 20 16:34:07 <timeless_mbp> i liked edlin :)
May 20 16:34:16 * timeless_mbp wonders if anyone here even remembers that!
May 20 16:34:26 <kfx> using edlin meant you were probably going to have to screw with DOS interrupts
May 20 16:34:31 <kfx> I do not miss that world, even a little
May 20 16:36:53 * timeless_mbp shrugs
May 20 16:43:16 * Stskeeps yawns
May 20 16:45:06 <luke-jr> Jaffa: most of those features you listed don't need an IDE ;P
May 20 16:45:30 <Jaffa> luke-jr: Most text editors have IDE-like features in them now :-p
May 20 16:45:51 <luke-jr> ☺
May 20 17:12:39 <GAN800> The capped CSS headers need to go.
May 20 17:13:03 <GAN800> It's too dumb and it makes us look like idiots when Maemo.org shows up.
May 20 17:13:19 <GAN800> Particularly bad on Planet.
May 20 17:13:28 <Stskeeps> what, cos it's maemo.org? ;)
May 20 17:13:57 <amr> n810 is on its way :)
May 20 17:14:14 <amr> better start finding the crucial apps to isntall
May 20 17:14:16 <amr> install*
May 20 17:14:23 <Stskeeps> amr: consider your life forever changed ;)
May 20 17:14:32 <amr> well, i had a 770 but that had a rather short life
May 20 17:14:35 <amr> what with 2 WSODs :p
May 20 17:14:36 <GAN800> amr, list is on the wiki.
May 20 17:14:45 <amr> cheers
May 20 17:14:56 <GAN800> Get somebody who's not currently on a tablet to locate it for you. ;)
May 20 17:15:02 <amr> hah, its ok
May 20 17:15:05 <amr> got it
May 20 17:18:19 <coldboot> How can I find out what version of Qt is in Chinook?
May 20 17:18:31 <coldboot> I can't find libqtcore4 anywhere in the repositories.
May 20 17:18:45 <coldboot> I don't have Chinook installed, I already have Diablo on all of my devices.
May 20 17:20:22 <timeless_mbp> coldboot: um
May 20 17:20:29 <timeless_mbp> Qt was never shipped by Nokia
May 20 17:20:29 <coldboot> Found it
May 20 17:20:40 <timeless_mbp> so the version would be Undefined
May 20 17:21:44 <GAN800> Whatever's in Chinook Extras.
May 20 17:21:54 <coldboot> It's in extras-devel
May 20 17:22:28 <GAN800> timeless_mbp, how do you feel about bug feeds on the bugzilla index page?
May 20 17:22:36 <timeless_mbp> not opposed
May 20 17:22:45 <timeless_mbp> not sure how useful it is for an average visitor
May 20 17:23:30 <GAN800> Well, the thing that bothers me about bug trackers is that there's no obvious way to get started for new users.
May 20 17:23:48 <coldboot> It seems Diablo has qt here: http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/diablo/free/q/
May 20 17:23:51 <GAN800> You can search (for what?) or file a bug.
May 20 17:23:54 <coldboot> But Chinook doesn't have Qt at all...
May 20 17:24:15 <GAN800> coldboot, Chinook is old and lame.
May 20 17:24:39 <coldboot> I'm trying to install an older version of Qt.
May 20 17:25:47 <GAN800> Anyway, bug feeds sort of give you somerthing obvious to start with.
May 20 17:27:18 <timeless_mbp> GAN800: we're hunting dinner
May 20 17:27:24 <timeless_mbp> i don't mind a feed
May 20 17:27:25 <GAN800> The current situation feels a bit like visiting internettablettalk.com and only having a search box and a toolbar.
May 20 17:27:40 <timeless_mbp> but how do you pick a feed?
May 20 17:27:44 <timeless_mbp> bugs filed today?
May 20 17:27:46 <timeless_mbp> popular bugs?
May 20 17:27:50 * GAN800 just had leftover pasta for lunch.
May 20 17:27:50 <timeless_mbp> old bugs?
May 20 17:28:13 <timeless_mbp> keep in mind that if you offer popular bugs, you're encouraging "me too"syndrome
May 20 17:28:39 <GAN800> 5-10 most recent, then 5-10 severity/priority/something.
May 20 17:29:02 <timeless_mbp> i'm not sure how to write that query
May 20 17:29:03 <timeless_mbp> but ok :)
May 20 17:29:25 <GAN800> Most recent would be good enough for me, honestly.
May 20 18:31:13 <coldboot> Where can you get gnu make from on the nokia n810?
May 20 18:31:29 <luke-jr> probably depends on OS
May 20 18:31:33 <luke-jr> it's included with Gentoo
May 20 18:32:08 <coldboot> Yeah it's fine on my system, but Maemo Diablo doesn't seem to have gnu make in its repository.
May 20 18:32:31 <inz> coldboot, sure it is there
May 20 18:32:32 <AStorm> jeremiah_, how it's going with the port? :)
May 20 18:33:00 <coldboot> inz: What repositories do you have setup in /etc/apt/sources.list?
May 20 18:34:14 <andrewfblack> Hello
May 20 18:34:22 <inz> coldboot, the one you can find make from is http://respository.maemo.org/ diablo/tools free
May 20 18:35:02 <Stskeeps> lo andrewfblack :)
May 20 18:35:03 <Stskeeps> how is it going?
May 20 18:35:34 <andrewfblack> not back just finished  update to minimalist 2.0
May 20 18:35:47 <andrewfblack> I think most people will be happy now
May 20 18:37:33 <coldboot> inz: That's exactly it, it says "no installation candidate" when I already had that line in my sources.list.
May 20 18:39:47 <inz> coldboot, well make can be found in http://repository.maemo.org/dists/diablo/sdk/free/binary-armel/Packages
May 20 18:39:53 <Stskeeps> andrewfblack: is it possible to satisfy people? :P
May 20 18:41:53 <coldboot> inz: You just do "apt-get install make", right?
May 20 18:44:01 <coldboot> So it's in the sdk, then.
May 20 18:50:49 <fiferboy> lbt: That builds really quickly now
May 20 18:50:58 <fiferboy> Now to test if the .so file works on the device...
May 20 18:52:04 <fiferboy> Less than five minutes after the initial build if I only change one file.
May 20 19:01:57 <lbt> fiferboy: is that using scratchbox?
May 20 19:02:10 <fiferboy> lbt: Yes, in a virtualbox session
May 20 19:02:16 <lbt> 'k
May 20 19:02:32 <lbt> I'm using qemu and it's a fair bit longer but not silly
May 20 19:02:49 <fiferboy> But I may have goofed.  The latest SVN is qt 4.5.1, and I only have 4.5.0 on my tablet
May 20 19:02:50 <lbt> hmm no, 1 file is about 5 minutes
May 20 19:03:07 <fiferboy> It is complaining about different library versions
May 20 19:03:32 <lbt> heh - I have the advantage that I'm eating my own dogfood...
May 20 19:03:39 <Proteous> Mmmm, dogfood
May 20 19:03:52 <fiferboy> Yes, I didn't want to build all the packages so I am caught
May 20 19:04:11 <fiferboy> I may have to rollback my svn checkout to 4.5.0 and start over
May 20 19:04:39 <fiferboy> Unless Antonio has the 4.5.1 packages building for tonight
May 20 19:05:38 <coldboot> Why does the vim installed on a nokia n810 not have working home and end keys?
May 20 19:05:48 <coldboot> A lot of the keys are mapped wrong.
May 20 19:07:25 <kfx> coldboot: it's not vim, it's vi, and the keys are like that because the n810 doesn't have a proper TERMCAP
May 20 19:08:22 <lbt> fiferboy: it's not so bad... a build takes overnight in sbox on a quick machine IIRC
May 20 19:08:54 <coldboot> kfx: I've installed Vim, confirmed Vim 7.1, and it's still got messed up keys.
May 20 19:09:06 <coldboot> kfx: I'm also sshed in.
May 20 19:09:17 <fiferboy> lbt: I have left a build going over night, and it eventually get to the last mega-linking stage and sits there for about four hours
May 20 19:09:22 <fiferboy> I have never gotten past that.
May 20 19:09:37 <lbt> hmmm .... more memory
May 20 19:09:55 <lbt> I bet your virtualbox is swapping in the link phase
May 20 19:10:04 <kfx> coldboot: do echo $TERM
May 20 19:10:06 <lbt> why use virtualbox?
May 20 19:10:11 <fiferboy> I don't have enough memory to give virtualbox
May 20 19:10:44 <fiferboy> Because I have a Windows laptop (work) and an x64 Linux home machine.
May 20 19:10:45 <coldboot> kfx: I changed it to xterm, because it was set to screen, what should it be?
May 20 19:10:52 <fiferboy> I have never gotten scratchbox to work in x64
May 20 19:11:01 <kfx> coldboot: not sure, I don't have my device on me
May 20 19:11:14 <kfx> but vim uses $TERM to decide all kinds of stuff, including keymappings
May 20 19:12:19 <coldboot> kfx: It's set to xterm by default, which is messed up.
May 20 19:19:42 <lbt> fiferboy: worth checking out qemu at home then
May 20 19:20:17 <lbt> the binaries I send you are from the OBS based builder for Mer
May 20 19:20:34 <fiferboy> lbt: I will check it out.  Especially now that you have Qt compiling without scratchbox detects
May 20 19:24:09 <fiferboy> lbt: Did you follow the QEMU N8x0 presentation to get set up?
May 20 19:24:26 <lbt> which?
May 20 19:24:40 <fiferboy> http://marcin.juszkiewicz.com.pl/2008/09/20/maemo-in-qemu-n8x0-emulation-presentation/
May 20 19:24:50 <Stskeeps> fiferboy: we actually use full user-level emulation of ARM in general, it talks directly to host kernel :)
May 20 19:25:21 <fiferboy> Stskeeps: Is there any documentation on setting this up?  I presume it is for Mer purposes?
May 20 19:25:23 <lbt> fiferboy:  http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer/Build
May 20 19:26:03 <Macer> well
May 20 19:26:07 <Macer> being a safe driver has finally paid off
May 20 19:26:20 <fiferboy> lbt: Thanks
May 20 19:26:28 <Macer> instead of having to go to the hell known as the dmv. i was able to renew my license online and get a sticker to put on the back of it :)
May 20 19:27:02 <Macer> not sure if anybody has ever read dante. where he reaches the 8th ring and has sees the people standing in the eternal dmv line
May 20 19:32:04 <Stskeeps> hehe, probably the people working at dmv :P
May 20 19:43:03 <inz> coldboot, ah, tools/sdk, yes, that's what I meant to write
May 20 19:43:12 <inz> coldboot, 'twas a thinko
May 20 19:48:37 <coldboot> haha
May 20 19:48:38 <coldboot> Good one
May 20 19:49:12 <Macer> Stskeeps: no. the workers are the demons
May 20 19:49:25 <Macer> i don't know how the dmv is there.. but here it is hell incarnate
May 20 19:49:55 <Macer> it used to be worse when i first got my license. if you got to the dmv 2 hours before it opened. there would be a line going around the block. and that is just the PRE line
May 20 19:50:07 <Macer> you go through this 3 hours line.. and arrive at the center desk for judgement
May 20 19:50:33 <Macer> and there are 3 places you can go.. dante described them all
May 20 19:50:56 <Macer> one is you get to go into this "express line" which for whatever reason i never learned what virtues you must have to be placed into this blessed line
May 20 19:51:07 <Macer> (heaven)
May 20 19:51:41 <Macer> the other option is another 5 hour line where you move at the rate of 1 person per every 10 minutes (purgatory)
May 20 19:52:10 <amr> n810 bought and paid for
May 20 19:52:10 <amr> \o
May 20 19:52:15 <Macer> option 3 is that you do not have the proper paperwork and wind up having to go home and can either make the attempt to come back the same day or just bring it the next day where they find something else is wrong (hell)
May 20 19:52:24 <lbt> wow.... we go for a test when we're 16/17 and renew our license when we're nearly blind
May 20 19:52:33 <lbt> takes 30 mins
May 20 19:52:40 <lbt> once... ever
May 20 19:52:55 <Macer> lbt: well.. it isn't so bad here anymore. it's around a 4 hour adventure.. but about 6 years ago it was an all day affair
May 20 19:53:02 <lbt> live free ... die old and in a line
May 20 19:53:07 <Macer> lbt: yup
May 20 19:53:16 <lbt> and not so much of the live free these days ;)
May 20 19:53:30 <Macer> wait.. let me check my threat level widget
May 20 19:53:36 <Macer> yup. still yellow :)
May 20 19:53:37 <Macer> hahaha
May 20 19:53:51 <lbt> yellow.... scared
May 20 19:53:52 <Macer> what a load of shit
May 20 19:54:17 <Macer> yello = "significant risk of terrorist attack"
May 20 19:54:33 <Macer> it has been yellow or higher since 2001
May 20 19:54:58 <Macer> i wonder if tsa runs the terror meter
May 20 19:57:44 <Macer> i tell you. this profit off fear this is the ultimate racket
May 20 19:58:16 <Stskeeps> old and proven though
May 20 19:58:23 <lbt> this one: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/1501
May 20 20:09:24 <coldboot> Can you download built versions of Qt for maemo?
May 20 20:09:37 <coldboot> I want to get Qt 4.4 instead of 4.5 that comes with Diablo.
May 20 20:18:13 <Razumihin> Is there any alternative mapping programs besides the maemo mapper?
May 20 20:19:28 <zs>  "Use of internet tablet to control Lego Mindstorms NXT mobile robot" is this sentence correct?
May 20 20:22:05 <luke-jr> Razumihin: there is not a single good mapping program, it seems :<
May 20 20:22:17 <luke-jr> coldboot: IIRC, Qt 4.4 doesn't work on ARM
May 20 20:22:29 <coldboot> It's in the maemo repository...
May 20 20:22:42 <coldboot> https://garage.maemo.org/svn/qt4/trunk/qt4-x11-4.4.0/
May 20 20:23:27 <Pavlov> i'm pretty sure i built qt on arm about 9 or 10 months ago
May 20 20:24:27 <fiferboy> lbt: I rolled SVN back to 4.5.0 for the time being.  I will try QEMU sometime later.
May 20 20:24:37 <lbt> sure
May 20 20:24:44 <lbt> maybe post gitorious ?
May 20 20:24:56 <fiferboy> I'm going to play around with some of the default values, and maybe look at writing accessors.
May 20 20:25:01 <lbt> you could start that off if you wanted...
May 20 20:25:04 <fiferboy> lbt: Probably.
May 20 20:25:16 <fiferboy> I saw you glance my way in that email.
May 20 20:25:30 <lbt> :D
May 20 20:26:00 <fiferboy> I'll have to read up on GIT, I'm really not familiar with CVS/SVN/GIT past a simple checkout
May 20 20:26:22 <lbt> ah, I thought you were
May 20 20:26:33 <lbt> well, the docs are good ;)
May 20 20:26:53 <fiferboy> I'll take a look at them.
May 20 20:27:22 <fiferboy> I might as well learn SOME version control system.
May 20 20:27:25 <lbt> http://git-scm.com/
May 20 20:28:14 <fiferboy> Thanks.  I'll look at it tonight.  I'll probably solicite advice from the mailing list if I am going to start something.
May 20 20:28:47 <Macer> ugh i hate ncis without kate
May 20 20:28:52 <Macer> it isn't as funny anymore
May 20 20:28:58 <Macer> what a let down
May 20 20:30:04 <fiferboy> lbt: I'll talk to you about it tomorrow, no doubt.
May 20 20:30:08 <fiferboy> I've got to go now.
May 20 20:30:17 <lbt> l8r then
May 20 20:37:57 <luke-jr> does the N810 mic totally suck?
May 20 20:38:29 <Razumihin> afaik not.
May 20 20:38:39 <Razumihin> Havent tried it lately though.
May 20 20:38:49 <luke-jr> maybe just the driver then
May 20 20:38:50 <luke-jr> :/
May 20 20:39:00 <Razumihin> try using alsamixer :)
May 20 20:39:03 <luke-jr> I did
May 20 20:39:10 <luke-jr> what am I supposed to change?
May 20 20:39:22 <Razumihin> I think the first capture device is the mic
May 20 20:39:31 <Razumihin> Wait a sec i open it up.
May 20 20:39:52 <luke-jr> 80 different settings in alsamixer
May 20 20:40:16 <luke-jr> Razumihin: I managed to get the mic, but with a significant delay and crappy quality
May 20 20:40:17 <Razumihin> Mic1 is the mic volume
May 20 20:40:58 <Razumihin> hmm... dunno. tried rebooting? That helps for sound problems for me.
May 20 20:42:18 <luke-jr> there is no Mic1
May 20 20:42:59 <Razumihin> hmm... i have :P
May 20 20:43:06 <Razumihin> N810 and latest firmware.
May 20 20:43:33 <Razumihin> My alsamixer is running on chrooted debian as far as i remember...
May 20 20:44:31 <luke-jr> Razumihin: whatever "latest firmware" means
May 20 20:45:18 <Razumihin> Don't remember the version ;) But i reinstalled OS2008 half a month ago :)
May 20 20:49:20 <GAN800> lardman, ping?
May 20 20:49:57 <GAN800> if any Talk mods are around, can you lock the New browser thread?
May 20 20:52:12 <lardman> GAN800: pong
May 20 20:52:57 <GAN800> lardman, can you lock the New browser thread?
May 20 20:53:04 <lardman> yeah hang on
May 20 20:54:15 <luke-jr> Razumihin: so Maemo stuff
May 20 20:54:19 <luke-jr> http://rafb.net/p/ZDCeEb29.html <-- my mixer things
May 20 20:54:26 <lardman> is there a problem with the content? Looks quite civalised to me...?
May 20 20:54:41 <lardman> s/civalised/civilised
May 20 20:57:14 <GAN800> lardman, gravedig
May 20 20:57:33 <GAN800> Filled with old irrelevant information that doesn't need bumping.
May 20 20:57:56 <GAN800> Poster should start a new thread or find something recent.
May 20 20:58:00 <lardman> ok, I understand that, but it doens't do any harm
May 20 20:58:09 <lardman> if they want to rant in there, let them I say
May 20 20:58:41 <lardman> I'm happy to close a thread if it's turned personal, etc., but if they just want to dredge up the past then let them I say
May 20 20:58:46 <lardman> My apologies
May 20 20:58:47 <GAN800> It's a dead thread that doesn't need to be restarted.
May 20 20:59:07 <lardman> ah, I see
May 20 20:59:13 <GAN800> Meh, reported it, somebody else will do my bidding.
May 20 20:59:24 <lardman> lol
May 20 21:04:46 <GAN800> lardman, ping time was just a little slow. :P
May 20 22:14:55 <n800newbie> hi
May 20 22:22:38 <rmt> n800newbie, G'day, newbieone.. How is the force tonight?
May 20 22:23:04 <lcuk> hi n800newbie \o
May 20 22:23:20 <lcuk> hi lardman lbt \o :P
May 20 22:23:42 * lbt waves
May 20 22:24:30 <lcuk> w000t
May 20 22:24:54 <lcuk> night at the museum 2 is cool :D
May 20 22:28:56 <lbt> museum?
May 20 22:29:01 <lbt> you mean #maemo?
May 20 22:29:23 <lcuk> lol lbt
May 20 22:29:25 <lardman> lcuk: Holly will be glad to hear that :)
May 20 22:29:56 <n800penman> you're all on here too?
May 20 22:30:08 <lardman> How stable is that sshfs stuff? Will is clobber explorer?
May 20 22:30:10 <lcuk> yeah simon, tracy enjoyed it as well
May 20 22:30:25 <lardman> n800penman: no just split personalities ;)
May 20 22:30:46 <lcuk> sshfs has been stable enough for me so far to run visual basic and export entire app designs out into liq* modules
May 20 22:30:53 <lcuk> (basic ui only lol)
May 20 22:31:05 <lardman> cool, might actually improve explorer's stability then :D
May 20 22:31:21 * lcuk wrote an addin to parse vb forms and produce the layouts and also a makefile and stuff ;)
May 20 22:31:25 <lcuk> heh
May 20 22:31:31 <luke-jr> -.-
May 20 22:31:56 <lcuk> luke-jr, stop gap measure until the designer within liqbase itself is ready
May 20 22:32:01 <lcuk> a prototype so to speak :)
May 20 22:32:22 <luke-jr> lcuk: BUT DOES IT USE QT⁈
May 20 22:32:36 <lcuk> does it fuck, qt doesnt compile fast enough on my tablet
May 20 22:32:39 <lardman> yuck, c++ code
May 20 22:32:44 <lardman> ;)
May 20 22:32:51 <lcuk> im not waiting around for ages waiting for one singl,e file to compile
May 20 22:32:52 * lbt ignores the pheasants
May 20 22:32:57 * ShadowJK will have none of that QT stuff on his tablet
May 20 22:32:57 <lardman> lol
May 20 22:33:06 <lcuk> i might start using c++ again once i get a new tablet
May 20 22:33:11 <lcuk> but for now on my 810 its too slow
May 20 22:33:36 <luke-jr> lcuk is too slow
May 20 22:33:39 <ShadowJK> That's not to say I have anything against QT. However, I don't want TWO memory hogging toolkits in a memory constrained device, and I can't entirely get rid of GTK and be left with a usable tablet, so QT gets the ban for now :)
May 20 22:33:58 <lcuk> luke-jr, :) have you actually seen any of my stuff or do you just like bitching at things
May 20 22:34:00 <luke-jr> my tablet is GTK-less
May 20 22:34:10 <luke-jr> lcuk: it's not in Gentoo!
May 20 22:34:20 <lcuk> its open source
May 20 22:34:20 <lcuk> port it
May 20 22:34:38 <luke-jr> no u
May 20 22:34:38 <lcuk> i build everything for it completely on tablet - just like you
May 20 22:34:46 <luke-jr> Qt or fail
May 20 22:35:03 <lbt> ShadowJK: I'm hoping the SmartQ5+ will have 1Gb RAM....
May 20 22:35:17 <lbt> and 3D accel
May 20 22:35:32 <lcuk> i thought the smartq didnt have 3d either?
May 20 22:35:38 * lbt is obviously typing whilst asleep
May 20 22:35:50 <lcuk> would be nice
May 20 22:35:56 <lbt> well, it doesn't have the specs available
May 20 22:36:05 <lcuk> but after the work ive been doing its not an end game any more ;)
May 20 22:36:07 <lardman> lbt: it already has 3D accel
May 20 22:36:23 <lbt> I didn't think we had drivers?
May 20 22:36:25 <lardman> lbt: it does have the specs available
May 20 22:36:31 <lbt> oh
May 20 22:36:32 <lardman> no drivers, write your own
May 20 22:36:36 <lcuk> nice!
May 20 22:36:37 <lbt> ah
May 20 22:36:42 <lcuk> thats actually good fodder
May 20 22:36:43 <lardman> not a glib comment, certainly an option
May 20 22:37:02 <lardman> there's a link to a CPU manual somewhere near the end of the thread on Talk
May 20 22:37:07 <lcuk> create raw miniature driver and build on it
May 20 22:37:10 <lbt> well, as I said, Greg KH is willing to advise
May 20 22:38:04 <luke-jr> Ö
May 20 22:39:12 * luke-jr wonders how long till Nokia realizes everyone will be migrating to SmartQ for next-gen technology if they don't get their act straight
May 20 22:39:37 <lardman> well the smartQ is cool, as it's hackable, but really it's not nextgen hw
May 20 22:39:40 <lcuk> smartq isnt really next gen
May 20 22:39:43 <lcuk> its just different
May 20 22:39:59 <lcuk> a backwards step in some respects - camera keyboard etc
May 20 22:40:03 <lardman> cpu is a bit faster, it may even have the same powervr mbx gpu, hard to tell
May 20 22:40:03 <lcuk> but the bigger one looks good
May 20 22:40:07 <luke-jr> next-gen = next generation
May 20 22:40:13 <luke-jr> eg, next purchase
May 20 22:40:32 <lcuk> anyone know if there are hangers on the back
May 20 22:40:34 <lardman> ah, well few people will buy one over an n800 I wouldn't think
May 20 22:40:39 <lcuk> i want a wall mounted version
May 20 22:40:42 <lardman> unless they want to write drivers and the like
May 20 22:41:06 <lardman> lcuk: there's a stand, there's an unboxing video, etc., on umpc portal
May 20 22:41:10 <luke-jr> N800 is inferior in every way…?
May 20 22:41:14 <lcuk> stand doesnt help
May 20 22:41:15 <lardman> no
May 20 22:41:19 <lcuk> hate the stand on 810
May 20 22:41:23 <lcuk> i press it falls over
May 20 22:41:26 <lardman> lcuk: well there's therefore a gap
May 20 22:41:29 <n800penman> i'm going to stick with the other room for now
May 20 22:41:34 <lardman> I mean to make your own
May 20 22:42:03 <lcuk> yeah i know - i have the app very well in progress - i have the space on my wall for a bigger device
May 20 22:42:10 <lcuk> i want everything together and available
May 20 22:42:21 * lcuk ropes his dad into woodworking lol
May 20 22:42:53 <lardman> I was close to ordering one today, but it's actually perhaps a bit too big
May 20 22:43:09 <lcuk> depends on usage really
May 20 22:43:29 <lcuk> ill look in cph
May 20 22:45:54 <LiraNuna> what's Harmattan?
May 20 22:46:11 <lcuk> a wind
May 20 22:46:14 <LiraNuna> ...
May 20 22:46:16 <LiraNuna> Maemo Harmattan
May 20 22:46:18 <lardman> next gen+1 maemo software release
May 20 22:46:51 <lardman> atm we have Diablo, Fremantle comes with the next tablet (soon I hope), then Harmattan
May 20 22:47:10 <lardman> bear in mind that the n8x0 has had 2 release cycles, chinook + diablo
May 20 22:47:12 <LiraNuna> after Fermental?
May 20 22:47:16 <lardman> yes
May 20 22:47:24 <lardman> alphabetical wind names
May 20 22:47:38 <LiraNuna> ah
May 20 22:50:44 <luke-jr> umm
May 20 22:51:01 <luke-jr> is it just me, or does this SmartQ SoC support h.264 decoding in hardware?
May 20 22:51:37 <lardman> yes, though apparently it requires some firmware to be loaded to drive the mini DSP which can access the hw accelerators
May 20 22:51:47 <luke-jr> i c
May 20 22:52:07 <lardman> that was my reading anyway, I'd be happy to be wrong
May 20 22:52:57 <luke-jr> mere 40 keys available
May 20 22:53:04 <luke-jr> err
May 20 22:53:07 <luke-jr> 0x40, sorry
May 20 22:53:08 <luke-jr> 64
May 20 22:54:08 <luke-jr> curiously, my Zaurus has exactly 64 keys ö
May 20 22:54:40 <lardman> 8x8
May 20 22:54:48 <luke-jr> yeah
May 20 22:55:52 <luke-jr> does the CPU have the ability to use the 1.2 V?
May 20 22:56:44 <lardman> that I don;t know, from the dmesg output it looked like it was running at the lower speed/voltage
May 20 22:56:49 <lardman> ask Stskeeps
May 20 22:56:56 <lardman> he has a physical unit
May 20 22:58:11 <lardman> hmm, I guess a simple "BX LR" means a fn does nothing
May 20 23:02:58 <luke-jr> PDF is copyrighted, FWIW
May 20 23:03:12 <luke-jr> but as long as that site with it is authorized, I see no reason a driver based on it would have issues
May 20 23:03:15 <ShadowJK> and you'd need drivers for it too (h264 accel)
May 20 23:03:23 <luke-jr> ShadowJK: obviously
May 20 23:03:32 <luke-jr> but that PDF has full specs for everything I think
May 20 23:05:35 <lardman> yeah, other than for the firmware required to drive the mini DSP
May 20 23:06:11 <lcuk> copyright protects copying, a pdf explaining a driver is one step removed from the driver itself - if the end result for us was a pdf explaining a driver in the style of the existing document then yeah its a problem
May 20 23:06:25 <lcuk> but using the documentation and reimplenting a driver from it is fair game
May 20 23:06:46 <luke-jr> exactly
May 20 23:06:52 <lardman> well isn't it all fair game in Europe anyway?
May 20 23:07:06 <lcuk> the further east you go, the more fair the game ;)
May 20 23:07:43 <lardman> :)
May 20 23:07:56 <ShadowJK> Well, all documentation is copyrighted anyway :)
May 20 23:08:00 * lcuk moves to hull
May 20 23:08:15 <lcuk> all documents are copyrighted arent they now
May 20 23:08:31 <lcuk> unless explicitely specified otherwise
May 20 23:08:39 <luke-jr> yeah
May 20 23:08:43 <luke-jr> but NDAs aren't automatic ;)
May 20 23:08:54 <ShadowJK> right
May 20 23:09:27 <lcuk> it would be hard if all documentation had to be attributed (C)2009 Gary Birkett
May 20 23:09:29 <ShadowJK> So it might be dubious if you copy big tables, but those big tables might be needed for interoperability anyway... :P
May 20 23:09:30 <lcuk> after every line (C)2009 Gary Birkett
May 20 23:09:56 <luke-jr> who is Gary Birkett
May 20 23:09:58 <luke-jr> screw him
May 20 23:10:01 <lcuk> i dunno (C)2009 Gary Birkett
May 20 23:10:07 <lardman> dunno, but I'm going to copyright him ;)
May 20 23:10:18 <lardman> :p
May 20 23:10:28 * lcuk is mostly copyleft
May 20 23:10:42 <lardman> luke-jr: be careful with your random screwings, people may take offense
May 20 23:10:47 <lcuk> and the rest is still embedded in a doorway somewhere remote
May 20 23:10:48 <luke-jr> lol XD
May 20 23:10:55 <luke-jr> so who is it
May 20 23:11:01 <lardman> it's lcuk
May 20 23:11:03 <luke-jr> o
May 20 23:11:05 <luke-jr> oops
May 20 23:11:07 <luke-jr> >_<
May 20 23:11:19 <luke-jr> I seem to be pissing lcuk off a bit too much today
May 20 23:11:20 <luke-jr> lol
May 20 23:11:26 <lcuk> yes luke, thats the second time recently :)
May 20 23:12:18 <ShadowJK> man...
May 20 23:12:32 <lcuk> ...i feel like a bacon buttie
May 20 23:12:33 <ShadowJK> I wish nokia didn't ever pre-announce or leak any models
May 20 23:12:35 <lcuk> bbl
May 20 23:12:44 <ShadowJK> it's so damn annoying
May 20 23:12:57 <luke-jr> ShadowJK: actually, it helps me in my argument a little
May 20 23:12:57 <lcuk> me stopped waiting a long time ago
May 20 23:13:02 <luke-jr> since they haven't announced anything
May 20 23:13:11 <luke-jr> I can insist on calling N810 their *current platform*
May 20 23:13:11 * GeneralAntilles yawns tiredly.
May 20 23:13:18 <luke-jr> and complain of their poor support for it
May 20 23:13:20 <ShadowJK> Oh I mean for picking a new phone
May 20 23:13:49 <ShadowJK> I think GeneralAntilles can testify, that the situation over on the symbian side isn't that great either ;)
May 20 23:13:53 <luke-jr> who needs a new phone?
May 20 23:14:00 <luke-jr> my phone from 2004 works just fine
May 20 23:14:04 <ShadowJK> or anyone who's used and tried to develop both symbian and maemo
May 20 23:14:15 <ShadowJK> luke-jr, I need more ram in mine :-(
May 20 23:14:16 <GeneralAntilles> Symbian is the suck.
May 20 23:14:20 <luke-jr> ShadowJK: why?
May 20 23:14:31 <GeneralAntilles> The core phone functionality is OK, but my free Samsung featurephone was OK at that.
May 20 23:14:32 <luke-jr> I don't think i've even used half the addressbook space in min
May 20 23:14:33 <luke-jr> e
May 20 23:14:40 <Corsac> depends on if you need a phone to phone or if you need a pda, an internet access or whatever
May 20 23:14:42 <lcuk> luke-jr, thats a lot of sense in that - and you cannot blanket say better faster more tech will win the day: look at ps3 vs wii
May 20 23:14:48 <luke-jr> Corsac: then it's not a phone :p
May 20 23:14:53 <lcuk> on speca slone the wii should be dead in the water
May 20 23:14:54 <Corsac> my point
May 20 23:15:09 <luke-jr> specs alone*
May 20 23:15:13 <Corsac> the only thing I hate on my phone is the ridiculous limit on sms numbers
May 20 23:15:19 <ShadowJK> luke-jr, because when I run out of RAM, symbian picks to kill the program that would annoy me the most if died
May 20 23:15:20 <GeneralAntilles> lcuk, game consoles are a weak comparison.
May 20 23:15:21 <lardman> lcuk: I bet the ps3 is better for architects, amongst others
May 20 23:15:24 <luke-jr> my phone doesn't even support SMS crap
May 20 23:15:40 <GeneralAntilles> The Wii's specs don't hinder you from doing things as a consumer.
May 20 23:15:40 <lcuk> still got a curly wire?
May 20 23:15:52 <GeneralAntilles> Whereas a slow tablet will hinder you from browsing some Flash sites.
May 20 23:15:57 <luke-jr> lcuk: no, the antenna broke a long time ago
May 20 23:16:08 <lcuk> but a fast tabnlet isnt much better - the iphone cant browse flash
May 20 23:16:16 <GeneralAntilles> Either way, the Wii still has a ton of power nobody's tapped into yet.
May 20 23:16:18 <lcuk> (or can it now)
May 20 23:16:26 <GeneralAntilles> lcuk, the iPhone really isn't much faster.
May 20 23:16:30 <Corsac> flash sucks anyway
May 20 23:16:35 <lardman> that's generally considered a blessing!
May 20 23:16:39 <lcuk> but its had all the rendering time taken off from the cpu
May 20 23:16:46 <lcuk> thats our biggest bottleneck
May 20 23:16:59 <lcuk> this 810 is fuckinhg quick! :)
May 20 23:17:19 <LiraNuna> imagine it with HW accel
May 20 23:17:30 <ShadowJK> It's not like much of the rendering done by QT or GTK can be accelerated anyway, they mostly just push pixmaps...
May 20 23:17:40 <luke-jr> my N810 has been trying to get a lock for 1½ hrs -.-
May 20 23:18:02 <lcuk> bbl anyway
May 20 23:18:04 <ShadowJK> It's impossible indoors unless you put it in a window that faces south ;)
May 20 23:18:16 <luke-jr> ShadowJK: Maemo does it indoors in a matter of seconds
May 20 23:18:38 <ShadowJK> ah
May 20 23:18:38 <luke-jr> the problem is stupid Nokia won't let us REALLY use the GPS
May 20 23:18:52 <lardman> no that's not true
May 20 23:18:54 <luke-jr> yes it is
May 20 23:19:03 <LiraNuna> horray closed source
May 20 23:19:11 * luke-jr glares at LiraNuna
May 20 23:19:11 <lardman> it would be nice if we could have access to the source to see if we can work out where the problem lies though
May 20 23:19:25 <LiraNuna> luke-jr, sarcasm.... do you speak it
May 20 23:19:29 <luke-jr> lardman: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4380
May 20 23:20:01 <LiraNuna> anyone tried ubuntu netbook remix on the N8x0?
May 20 23:20:14 <luke-jr> LiraNuna: afaik, b-man made it
May 20 23:20:19 <luke-jr> for the N8x0
May 20 23:20:22 <LiraNuna> not desktop ubuntu
May 20 23:20:34 <ShadowJK> lardman, it's not something you can workaround in software except by AGPS, which reduces the amount of data that the receiver has to download from the satellites. It needs constant good signal from the satellite for quite some time, the bitrate is quite slow...
May 20 23:20:37 <GAN800> LiraNuna, does a tablet sound like a netbook?
May 20 23:20:55 <LiraNuna> GAN800, optimized for resolution
May 20 23:21:08 <GAN800> LiraNuna, Clutter
May 20 23:21:18 <lardman> ShadowJK: I was thinking more of whether corrupt nvd_data was causing a problem, and changing gpsdriver to avoid that
May 20 23:21:39 <ShadowJK> Well luke is probably running it entirely without nvd_data?
May 20 23:21:48 <luke-jr> ShadowJK: probably
May 20 23:21:59 <lardman> ShadowJK: I think there's a fundamental crapness to the chipset firmware and probably the snr of the signal due to the aerial, but we can't change either of those
May 20 23:22:09 <ShadowJK> yeah
May 20 23:22:49 <luke-jr> as I mentioned, it works fine on Maemo
May 20 23:22:58 <Corsac> fine, fine…
May 20 23:23:05 <Corsac> it's usually quite slow
May 20 23:23:11 <ShadowJK> lardman, I did reported SNR comparison between sirfstar and n810.. the n810 plot looked better actually
May 20 23:23:32 <ShadowJK> (sortof)
May 20 23:24:09 <ShadowJK> actually it's pretty hard to make sense
May 20 23:24:11 <lardman> I mean the lower level snr, of the actual signal from the sat, not the decoded pos
May 20 23:24:22 <ShadowJK> http://enivax.net/jk/gps-10hrsatplot.png
May 20 23:24:33 <ShadowJK> whiter = bigger reported SNR
May 20 23:24:47 <lardman> ah :D
May 20 23:25:03 <lardman> SNR has no fixed meaning in NMEA data, it can mean anything the manuf wants it to
May 20 23:25:15 <ShadowJK> yeah
May 20 23:25:19 <lardman> I had a reference for that somewhere, I'll have to dif it out for you
May 20 23:25:32 <ShadowJK> though look at how broken the lines are towards the righthand side of the plot for the righthand receiver
May 20 23:25:35 <LiraNuna> what's the GPS chip on the N8x0 again?
May 20 23:25:43 <lardman> Ti 5300 iirc
May 20 23:26:21 <LiraNuna> not SiRFstar III
May 20 23:26:22 <LiraNuna> ?
May 20 23:26:26 <ShadowJK> no
May 20 23:26:37 <ShadowJK> if you want a sirfstar you buy one :)
May 20 23:26:52 <LiraNuna> I'm just inquiring ...
May 20 23:27:01 <ShadowJK> in maemo the GPS performance can be shockingly good sometimes
May 20 23:27:14 <lardman> LiraNuna: http://focus.ti.com/general/docs/wtbu/wtbuproductcontent.tsp?contentId=4663&navigationId=12607&templateId=6123
May 20 23:27:19 <ShadowJK> last weekend I clocked 7 seconds to first fix after a week of not using the GPS
May 20 23:27:37 <lardman> oh, look at the time, bed time for me
May 20 23:27:38 <lardman> night all
May 20 23:27:40 <Corsac> well, if you were at the same place?
May 20 23:28:12 <ShadowJK> The AGPS data was up to date, yes
May 20 23:28:51 <ShadowJK> If you turn off the GPS and drive hundreds of kilometres, you need to give the agps a new hint if you want it to be fast...
May 20 23:29:21 <Corsac> usually the user doesn't care how it works, it just wants it to work
May 20 23:30:25 <ShadowJK> I call 7 seconds "just works" :)
May 20 23:30:31 <kfx> I don't like those users much
May 20 23:31:52 <ShadowJK> and grr at nokia once again... Just when I was thinking "ooooh, E75 will soon be available (for real), it's the most decent looking alternative right now", and then then they have to leak out information about an upcoming new phone that's kinda like E75 but adds media player hardware keys on the case... now I want that one instead, grrr.
May 20 23:31:54 <Corsac> ShadowJK: well, if you don't move, sure, but a gps isn't really often used without moving, even when off
May 20 23:32:14 <ShadowJK> (and have to wait until July...August until it's available, by which time Nokia has probably another model that will soon be available which is more attractive)
May 20 23:32:24 <ShadowJK> ah well, it's great for my wallet, I'll never get around to it this way :)
May 20 23:32:43 <luke-jr> Corsac: generally, I have GPS running whenever I'm moving
May 20 23:32:44 <ShadowJK> I'd think you would have the GPS on when moving
May 20 23:32:50 <ShadowJK> that's what I do..
May 20 23:33:24 <ShadowJK> Especially if I would move far enough that it would be making a difference for the AGPS, because then I'd be far away from roads I know..
May 20 23:33:57 <Corsac> ShadowJK: not always, and there _definitely_ is a problem, a lot of people are annoyed by gps slowness (not only on n810). Some devices works better than other, thoug, and n810 is not in the list, from what I can see
May 20 23:34:28 <Corsac> and no, you don't leave gps always on because it'll suck you battery at quick rate
May 20 23:34:50 <Corsac> so you switch it on only when needed, and quite often it's far from the the last place
May 20 23:35:12 <ShadowJK> ah I just keep it on all day
May 20 23:35:54 <ShadowJK> speaking of day... it no longer is :) goodnight!
May 20 23:36:35 <ShadowJK> going to germany in august, will at some point check how long it takes for gps to find itself after the flight :)
May 20 23:37:03 <Corsac> keep it switched on in the flight, it's cool to see where you are on your own personal IFE
May 20 23:37:16 <Corsac> I did that when I went to mexico
May 20 23:37:32 <Corsac> (you're not really allowed to keep it on during take off and landing)
May 20 23:40:59 <luke-jr> Corsac: GPS fix takes way too long to do anything but have it active 24/7
May 20 23:41:19 <GAN800> Some airlines don't let you use them at all despite the fact that GPS only receives.
May 20 23:42:46 <chx> GAN800: and how do they stop? i mean, its just an electronic device which are ok to use past takeoff
May 20 23:43:02 <chx> GAN800: how do they know you are using a GPS??
May 20 23:43:37 <GAN800> chx, well, if one of the crew notices they'll ask you to turn it of
May 20 23:43:39 <GAN800> f
May 20 23:43:42 <luke-jr> so ignore them
May 20 23:43:49 <luke-jr> and don't get noticed
May 20 23:43:52 <GAN800> But that's not the point, just that it's policy.
May 20 23:44:04 <GAN800> Yeah, not the point.
May 20 23:44:26 <GAN800> ignoring them sounds like fucking anti-social behavior.
May 20 23:44:31 <luke-jr> the only reason I turn my cell off is otherwise it drains power
May 20 23:45:06 <luke-jr> there's so much radio in the air already, our trivial devices don't have any effect
May 20 23:45:16 <GAN800> luke-jr is the type of prick that'd bring a radio jammer on a plane. . . .
May 20 23:45:17 <luke-jr> just makes people "feel safer"
May 20 23:45:21 <luke-jr> LOL
May 20 23:45:22 <GAN800> You don't know that.
May 20 23:45:23 <luke-jr> no
May 20 23:45:41 <luke-jr> GAN800: I know that if it was REALLY a problem, they'd confiscate the devices
May 20 23:45:49 <luke-jr> or else they're being utterly negligent
May 20 23:45:50 <GAN800> Can you tell me the frequencies every device on an aircraft operates on?
May 20 23:46:23 <GAN800> or guarantee that no device could possibly step on them?
May 20 23:46:43 <luke-jr> GAN800: if it could cause trouble, why do they allow us to take it on the plane?
May 20 23:46:50 <luke-jr> and risk us breaking rules?
May 20 23:46:55 <ShadowJK> they even ask you to switch off mp3 players..
May 20 23:47:17 <luke-jr> ShadowJK: that might actually make sense
May 20 23:47:27 <luke-jr> MP3 players could have a hard drive that could be damaged
May 20 23:47:59 <ShadowJK> ... by the airport xrays :)
May 20 23:48:26 <sp3000> and geese
May 20 23:48:53 <ShadowJK> a laptop puts out loads of radio too, even with intentional radios off
May 20 23:49:50 <Proteous> mine only plays Frank Sinatra :/
May 20 23:49:53 <ShadowJK> and on my n800 the touchscreen io lines crossover to headphone output, causing interference
May 20 23:50:11 <luke-jr> besides, doesn't the FCC require anything radio to both be OK with interference and not cause interference?
May 20 23:50:36 <luke-jr> I would think it stupid for a plane to use intentionally unlicensed bands for anything important
May 20 23:50:54 <ShadowJK> uh, they dont
May 20 23:51:06 <ShadowJK> and that's not the conceern
May 20 23:52:41 <ShadowJK> gsm is actually particulary vicious, to the point you can even audibly hear it in many things
May 20 23:53:23 <ShadowJK> my watch could be dangerous :)
May 20 23:53:39 <Proteous> well, it induces current into preamp circuits and such causing audiable noises to come out the speakers
May 20 23:54:05 <Proteous> the electronics in airplanes should be shielded against that stuff
May 20 23:55:21 <ShadowJK> the current plan seems to be to have picocells inside planes, so phones just have to whisper
May 20 23:55:52 <Proteous> who wants to sit next to someone talking on thier cell phone for a 12 hour flight
May 20 23:55:58 <Proteous> I would kill myself, or them
May 20 23:56:09 <LiraNuna> how well does AGPS works?
May 20 23:56:43 <luke-jr> Proteous: cells don't work
May 20 23:56:44 <Proteous> depends on the device
May 20 23:56:53 <LiraNuna> Proteous, N810WE
May 20 23:56:57 <ShadowJK> watch dangerous.. because it has a boost converter for the backlight, a chip switching poweer into an inductor... it's a minitransmitter really :)
May 20 23:56:57 <luke-jr> LiraNuna: generally pretty good
May 20 23:57:17 <LiraNuna> actual "fix in seconds" or?
May 20 23:57:22 <luke-jr> Proteous: planes travel too fast for cell phones to communicate w/ cell towers
May 20 23:57:23 <ShadowJK> and makes a faint audible noise too :)
May 20 23:58:28 <Proteous> the n810 takes between 1 and 5 minutes to get a fix depending on visability of sats
May 20 23:58:32 <ShadowJK> luke: ryanair was going to install cellphone basestation inside airplane.
May 20 23:58:42 <Proteous> sometimes never if you are inside and can't see any Sats
May 20 23:58:49 <luke-jr> Proteous: I'm at 2 hours waiting..
May 20 23:58:54 <Proteous> lol
May 20 23:59:00 <Proteous> make a sammich
May 20 23:59:08 <luke-jr> nevermind
May 20 23:59:12 <luke-jr> it just got a fix finally
May 20 23:59:14 <luke-jr> x.x
May 20 23:59:31 <luke-jr> what's your altitude
May 20 23:59:34 <luke-jr> mine is 1080
May 20 23:59:35 <ShadowJK> you'll have to wwait for better weather :)
May 20 23:59:40 <ShadowJK> 60
May 21 00:01:29 <ShadowJK> all my nokia chargers scream now :( I wonder if they always did that, and I only started noticing after only sleeping with one computer running... or if they start screaming/whining due to old age
May 21 00:01:33 <luke-jr> which sats can you see?
May 21 00:01:46 <luke-jr> I can see23, 3, 19, 25, 13, 10, 6, 7, 8, and 16
May 21 00:02:01 <ShadowJK> im indoors, id see none
May 21 00:02:06 <luke-jr> why?
May 21 00:02:13 <luke-jr> I'm indoors too
May 21 00:02:16 <ShadowJK> not even sirfstar sees
May 21 00:03:03 <ShadowJK> metal roof :)
May 21 00:03:12 <luke-jr> I have a whole apartment above me :p
May 21 00:05:45 <LiraNuna> that's weird, I got a map installed in internal sd but 'maps' will not find it
May 21 00:29:17 <fauxmight> ShadowJK: I have two chargers. one screams and one does not. The screamer has a damaged cord and if I change its position, it will occasionally stop screaming. I'm sure it will fry me in my house one day, but it charges whether it screams or not.
May 21 00:29:48 <fauxmight> I have two n810s in use else I wouldn't use the second charger.
May 21 00:31:00 <GAN8001> fauxmight, Amazon has the charger for about $2 a piece.
May 21 00:33:38 <Proteous> the screaming is just some high frequency vibration probably from one of the tiny transformers or ICs in the charger
May 21 00:33:46 <Proteous> usualy isn't something to worry about
May 21 00:34:05 <Proteous> you can open it up and spread some hot glue around the part that is causing it if you want...
May 21 00:34:31 <Infekta> hello
May 21 00:34:33 <Proteous> or just get a new one for $2
May 21 00:34:41 <Proteous> howdy Infekta
May 21 00:35:13 <Infekta> hey im curious about something... is there a way to change the internal MMC
May 21 00:35:33 <Proteous> on an N810?
May 21 00:35:37 <Proteous> no, it's soldered in
May 21 00:35:38 <Infekta> yes
May 21 00:35:41 <Infekta> fack
May 21 00:35:43 <Infekta> lol
May 21 00:35:52 <Proteous> well, with the right tools you might be able to do it
May 21 00:36:02 <Proteous> no guarenttee it would work
May 21 00:36:03 <Infekta> yeah i do have soldering tools
May 21 00:36:05 <Infekta> but
May 21 00:36:25 <Infekta> i dont think i will find a solderable SD card anywhere
May 21 00:36:30 <Infekta> o well
May 21 00:36:40 <lcuk> inside a normal sd card?
May 21 00:36:43 <lcuk> unsolder that one ;)
May 21 00:36:51 <Proteous> you would need tools to do really fine chip replacement
May 21 00:37:02 <Proteous> different stuff then just a soldering iron
May 21 00:37:06 <lcuk> hammer and chisel not fine enough?
May 21 00:37:09 <Proteous> lol
May 21 00:37:11 <Proteous> probably not
May 21 00:37:22 * lcuk used to work on circuit repair
May 21 00:37:29 <Proteous> cool
May 21 00:37:43 <Proteous> I just worked on bigger stuff, use to do stereo repair
May 21 00:37:52 <Proteous> regular soldering iron worked fine
May 21 00:38:24 <lcuk> yeah they would come out of the smt machine after the bath and layout
May 21 00:39:06 <lcuk> but it wasnt unheard of to get the wick out scoop up everything and replace half the board
May 21 00:39:31 * lcuk cant think of the right name for his mini blowtorch
May 21 00:39:47 <Proteous> the smallest stuff I would do is surface mount resistors and caps
May 21 00:39:52 <Proteous> no ICs
May 21 00:40:00 <Proteous> well, not really small ones anyway
May 21 00:40:05 <lcuk> easier to remove than to replace lol
May 21 00:40:10 <Proteous> yeah
May 21 00:40:22 <Proteous> fix peoples botched PS2 mods
May 21 00:40:53 <lcuk> most common soldering i bother with nowadays is mouse button replacement
May 21 00:41:34 <Proteous> that's pretty extreme
May 21 00:41:43 <Proteous> considering a new mouse is $5.00
May 21 00:41:51 <lcuk> not relaly, i like my mouse and i cant find em anywhere brick n mortor lol
May 21 00:41:57 <Proteous> heh
May 21 00:42:38 * lcuk 's mouse has balls
May 21 00:42:40 <Proteous> last soldering I did was solder together my arcade control panel
May 21 00:42:43 <lcuk> a ball :|
May 21 00:42:47 <Proteous> fuckin ball mice
May 21 00:42:53 <Proteous> what a joke
May 21 00:42:54 <Proteous> heh
May 21 00:43:12 <lcuk> works and is the right weight :)
May 21 00:43:22 <Infekta> if all else fails
May 21 00:43:29 <Infekta> use a shotgun
May 21 00:43:42 <lcuk> and laser mice have a nasty habit of shooting off west when i pick em up and wiggle em
May 21 00:43:50 <Infekta> lol
May 21 00:44:05 <Infekta> coz they got a vasectomy at birth
May 21 00:44:07 <lcuk> "omg omg the floor under me moved, quick send the pointer to africa
May 21 00:44:21 <lcuk> whereas a ball mouse merely twitches :)
May 21 00:58:10 <chx> I use an Evoulent Vertical Mouse
May 21 00:58:19 <chx> definitely not the five bucks category
May 21 00:58:23 <chx> but soooooo comfy
May 21 01:09:34 <GAN800> lcuk, you need a mousepad and a mouse that doesn't suck
May 21 01:09:44 <GAN800> The MX518 is really nice.
May 21 01:12:10 <GAN800> Merging these tablet school articles is going to be a pain.
May 21 02:03:00 <Bobbe> morning
May 21 02:04:34 <GAN800> lol . . . American Idol. Rod Stewart got old.
May 21 02:05:36 <Bobbe> lol
May 21 02:05:53 <Bobbe> his face looks like a broken mirror or something
May 21 02:05:59 <Bobbe> wrinkles held still with botox or sth
May 21 02:16:57 <disco_stu> hi
May 21 02:20:48 <Macer> chernobyl set off alarms in sweden :)
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu May 21 02:59:57 2009