**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu May 21 02:59:57 2009 May 21 03:10:04 hm May 21 03:58:55 which package provides tools like mkfs.ext2, ext3 for maemo (I have an n810) May 21 04:08:18 e2fsprogs May 21 04:08:24 it's in extras-devel May 21 04:10:47 cyrus_mc, u there? May 21 04:12:41 ya May 21 04:12:46 ok..I need ot add that repos May 21 04:12:56 any idea where I get it or the details to add to the repos file May 21 04:15:05 http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras#Extras-devel May 21 04:15:18 there will be a link like 'click this .install to add the repo' or sth similar May 21 04:18:25 k May 21 04:18:27 ty May 21 04:18:32 np May 21 04:35:58 Bobbe - i enabled that repos but e2fsprogs is still not available May 21 04:37:11 hmm.had to reboot and then it was availble May 21 04:37:17 strange..never had to do that before when adding a repo May 21 04:37:54 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811133044 May 21 04:37:58 i want to make a gaming box in that case May 21 04:38:01 that thing is awesome May 21 04:38:04 i should start pricing everything May 21 04:38:17 Facebook: "Matthew is killing the environment, one clorox spill at a time." May 21 04:38:19 XD May 21 04:39:09 phenom IIs are still using am+ right? May 21 04:39:22 or do they use am3? May 21 04:40:38 supposedly backwards compatible May 21 04:40:46 Macer: most CPUs come in more than one socket May 21 04:40:50 at least for AMD May 21 04:41:12 (if you can find bios upgrade for your old mobo)) May 21 04:43:15 i've almost managed to squeeze 800 mAh out of this n800 battery now :) but it's on the edge of triggering the low alert... May 21 04:50:41 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103675 May 21 04:51:25 that is not bad for that kind of processor May 21 04:54:06 a comparable i7 costs twice as much May 21 04:54:07 wow May 21 04:54:31 $()@*$@ May 21 04:54:39 stupid N810 May 21 04:55:56 comparable? no i7 is comparable, they don't go that low May 21 04:56:09 lol May 21 04:56:22 there is a 2.91GHz i7 May 21 04:56:40 but.. they sell Phenom IIs that are X3? May 21 04:56:42 wtf? May 21 04:57:41 yeah but 2.91GHz i7 has performance of a 4.5GHz phenomII, or something like that... May 21 04:58:20 lol May 21 04:58:29 oh cmon :) you are exagerating May 21 04:59:14 Macer: not sure he is May 21 04:59:21 it's quite possible May 21 04:59:36 Macer: 3-core systems are quad-core, but with a dud core disabled May 21 04:59:43 corr2quad is better comparison, and there the performance for a 225 dollar non-s c2q is similar to that phenomII May 21 05:00:32 my fastest system is a single-core (dual core didn't exist back then) Athlon64 3200+ May 21 05:01:25 luke-jr: i know but i figured they fixed their fabrication May 21 05:01:28 and stopped releasing those May 21 05:01:36 they seriously need to May 21 05:01:43 Macer: uh, defects will always exist May 21 05:01:48 always have, always will May 21 05:01:52 there is no 'fix' May 21 05:02:01 it's not cost efficient to "fix" it to be perfect May 21 05:02:11 just disable a core and sell it for a bit less May 21 05:02:19 well... usually defect is you have to sell it at a lower clock speed May 21 05:02:36 not disable an entire core :) May 21 05:02:49 in quad-core systems, all 4 cores need to be the same speed :p May 21 05:03:00 so one lower spec would pull the other 3 down May 21 05:03:04 i know May 21 05:03:15 sometimes it makes better sense to just forego the fourth May 21 05:03:29 i think with the amds though.. the actual core was faulty May 21 05:03:32 broken. May 21 05:03:57 it is like selling a new car with a donut for a 4th tire May 21 05:04:23 sometimes they dont run correct at any acceptable speeds at acceptable voltages May 21 05:04:48 * RST38x moos May 21 05:04:58 then they should recycle them and save their company from the utter destruction it caused May 21 05:05:01 :) May 21 05:05:13 instead of being stuck in 2nd rate status May 21 05:05:13 there's even X2 phenomII, but I think they call them something different :) May 21 05:05:37 Macer: some people would rather save money on 3-core than get a quad-core May 21 05:05:42 how did they find out the 4th core was broken? May 21 05:05:52 did they sell them and people noticed it wasn't working? May 21 05:05:57 luke: those people will all buy atoms now :) May 21 05:06:06 RST38h: haha.. i agree :) May 21 05:06:15 uh, they test them all? May 21 05:06:40 i see May 21 05:06:55 and when they first released them. were they all X3s? May 21 05:07:31 no offense. but amd should have sucked up the short term losses and shelved the X3s and released only good X4s at the time of its release May 21 05:08:17 now they are forced to sell their flagship at an incredibly low price because there is a stigma about them that they make inferior products May 21 05:08:29 Macer: the short term losses are infinite May 21 05:08:39 is there a stigma? May 21 05:08:46 i think there is :) May 21 05:08:47 what stigma? May 21 05:08:52 I think the people who understand a X3 is an X4 with a core disabled is few May 21 05:09:05 and out of those who do understand it, most understand that it's just fine May 21 05:09:06 intel's bottleneck in meeting demand for atom was actually in testing.. they could fit shitloads of them on a disc but their testing pipeline was designed for fewer amount and yield of chips that they'd get with huge cpus like core2 May 21 05:09:26 and besides, what will they buy instead? May 21 05:09:29 Intel does the same thing May 21 05:10:03 luke-jr: but intel never released a processor with a core turned off May 21 05:10:11 testing cores for certain clock frequencies and releasing "faulty" cores with lower frequency rating is a standard practice May 21 05:10:13 amd released the fight club recall car :) May 21 05:10:36 yes.. with lower freqs May 21 05:10:45 amd released a cpu that it was boasting about for a long time May 21 05:10:53 yeah x3 are nice, you get 3 good cores at discount, they're likely to overclock much better than x4 :) May 21 05:10:53 on how great its quad core performance was going to be May 21 05:10:54 Macer: Intel releases core-disabled CPUs *all the time* May 21 05:10:55 selling chips that have non-working parts with different part number is also a standard practice May 21 05:10:59 Macer: Just like AMD May 21 05:11:20 what do you think the Core Trio is? May 21 05:11:22 The best example is probably a bunch of 68EC030 chips that were 68030 with faulty MMU May 21 05:11:47 luke-jr: but it didn't release that information :) . i think broken when i think X3 May 21 05:11:54 what is core trio? May 21 05:12:01 please, do tell me May 21 05:12:04 Macer: that's a problem isolated to yourself May 21 05:12:30 luke-jr: well.. i would agree with you if amd wasn't selling their top line cpus at crackhead prices to play catch up to intel May 21 05:12:32 inteo releases cpus with parts of cache disabled... cache takes up huge amount of die, so there's good chance defects will occur there May 21 05:13:24 and i am sure the amd stock took a hit when it was discovered there was a MAJOR flaw in their destign that caused huge amounts of processors to come out as X3s instead of the quad core it was supposed to be marketed as May 21 05:13:34 let me check :) May 21 05:13:40 hey, any savvy maemo mapper users/devs in here? my copy of MM just stopped being able to download Gstreet or Gsat maps for some reason, and i'm not sure how to fix it May 21 05:15:27 let's see if i can find out when amd released the phenom and people discovered they were X3s instead of what they said it was supposed to be May 21 05:15:37 uh, intel most likely has same rate of defects per die area as amd, amd just sells more of the good stuff instead of dumping into landfill May 21 05:15:45 AMD marketed Phenom as x3 from the beginning May 21 05:15:55 So, folks, I am not sure what you are arguing about May 21 05:16:50 yep, they promised x3 and x2 parts in addition to x4 parts long before the launch May 21 05:17:06 RST38h: I guess someone made it up May 21 05:17:10 RST38h: uhm. May 21 05:17:17 RST38h: see the disclaimer above that my fastest CPU is single-core May 21 05:17:48 the phenom was supposed to be a quad core cpu from teh beginning May 21 05:17:53 not an x3 May 21 05:18:15 luke: Right. May 21 05:18:45 does maemo mapper store preferences anywhere other than the Maps directory and the /home/user/.maemo-mapper dir? i've tried deleting those directories and removing/reinstalling maemo mapper, but it still fails to download Gstreet or Gsat maps. all other map repos work... May 21 05:18:45 before it was released amd was saying they were supposed to be quad core cpus... the only reason they released them as x3 was because there was a flaw May 21 05:18:55 someone has a 40+ core CPU IIRC May 21 05:19:13 ian_at_synth: no doubt Google broke those by changing things May 21 05:20:07 i just spoke to my brother, and he said he was able to download from them still... May 21 05:20:14 Macer: whatever AMD was saying before relase does not matter May 21 05:20:46 tell that to politicians May 21 05:20:55 lol May 21 05:21:00 pretty sure the politicians all know that XD May 21 05:21:36 amd might actually be selling cpus with 4 working cores as x3, people who've bought x3 and re-enabled the fourth core haven't been able to find anything wrong with the fourth :) May 21 05:22:05 you can't reenable it May 21 05:22:10 the core is laser-cut off May 21 05:22:45 http://www.bit-tech.net/news/hardware/2007/07/27/amd_shows_off_phenom_at_3ghz/1 May 21 05:22:55 the demand for x3 was probably higher than amd thought it would be, or they get less dies with too broken cores now May 21 05:22:59 In order to prove that its soon-to-be-released Phenom processor isn.t broken... May 21 05:23:30 Shadow: When AMD says "core does not work" it may not actually mean that the core does not work at all May 21 05:24:04 Shadow: All it means is that one of 10000+ tests failed on this core at the clock frequency they rated that chip at May 21 05:24:24 the wlan icon should show signal strength May 21 05:24:44 So, you can reenable and use it, but AMD will not guarantee that it won't screw you up in some really weird way May 21 05:24:44 morning rst May 21 05:24:52 ehlo pupnik May 21 05:25:12 my t42p died :( May 21 05:25:18 * pupnik cries May 21 05:25:49 n810 lives tho May 21 05:26:19 luke-jr: http://my.ocworkbench.com/2009/asrock/M3A790GXH-128M-Review/g1.htm for example May 21 05:26:50 RST38h: i am telling you. the fact remains that after the phenom was released it was described as a broken cpu due to the X3 method amd used :) i am trying to track their stock in relation May 21 05:27:40 from july it had taken 7 quarterly losses May 21 05:27:46 of 2008 May 21 05:27:55 but they announced x3 parts well before the release... May 21 05:27:56 the actual economic mainsteram collapse occured around aug May 21 05:28:11 ShadowJK: and that is when their stock started taking hits May 21 05:28:44 because the world viewed them flaunting how they were beating intel and releasing a quad core cpu ... May 21 05:29:02 then didn't deliver and released what most considered a broken cpu with the X3 May 21 05:29:34 if you look at a 3 or 5 year graph of their stock you will see it as they are beating intel in the cpu race May 21 05:29:40 it spikes .. then dives May 21 05:29:46 after the release of broken phenoms May 21 05:29:59 vgba still rules May 21 05:30:01 making amd non-profitable because the world shifted to intel for "quality" cpus :) May 21 05:30:32 i am not saying that a phenom is a bad cpu. i think it is a good one. but they are forced to sell it at absolutely lowest pricing to push it out May 21 05:30:45 while intel is reaping in a price tag of $400+ for theirs May 21 05:30:48 amd must survive May 21 05:30:59 or intel gets sued as a monopoly :) May 21 05:31:07 so, yes, amd should survive :) May 21 05:31:28 well no, it's a bad cpu, but x3 and x2 are irrelevant in that context :p May 21 05:31:33 well... amd is in a freefall now and it all started when they finally started to beat intel in the cpu race May 21 05:31:51 and released X3s and the market viewed them as broken May 21 05:31:55 maybe ati will save amd May 21 05:32:08 since they were boasting a "better than intel quad core cpu" May 21 05:32:11 and did not deliver May 21 05:32:16 can't beat intel in x86 cpu race May 21 05:32:19 like the hare that took a nap May 21 05:32:24 RST38h: they could have :) they screwed up May 21 05:32:29 amd should have known May 21 05:32:55 maybe they can innovate in power saving May 21 05:32:58 Macer: Intel simply learned a lesson and caught up, that's all May 21 05:33:18 pupnik: Transmeta and later VIA tried that May 21 05:33:24 mhm May 21 05:33:25 i honestly believe if they kept the X3s under wraps and released the X4s for a while.. then said "we have these somewhat defective cpus but they work and we will sell them cheap" May 21 05:33:27 But the fact is that users do not care about power in desktops May 21 05:33:31 intel fell asleep at the wheel for years, and came back out of nowhere May 21 05:33:39 i don't think x3 makes a difference, with phenomII X4 amd said they'd catch up with intel, but they're still barely able to perform like low-end intel c2q, and intel i7 is far ahead... May 21 05:33:39 they should have never released the X3s in the beginning May 21 05:33:44 in eu they will begin to rst May 21 05:33:46 that's the power of having a huge amount of money to blow on R&D May 21 05:33:55 yep May 21 05:34:19 the market would have accepted it if they eased into it May 21 05:34:38 but releasing the X3s and saying the word "problem" was AMDs biggest mistake May 21 05:35:50 pupnik: only if artifically made to care May 21 05:35:58 pupnik: like by some law May 21 05:36:21 anyways, off to work May 21 05:36:35 cheers May 21 05:36:35 Macer: AMD didn't say "problem" :p May 21 05:36:40 they never did say problem. journalists said it, along with praising amd for being clever and not dumping those cpus in landfills like intel does May 21 05:38:00 enthusiasts and journalists actually like the advantages x3 and x2 gives, so I have a hard time seeing it as a mistake... May 21 05:41:04 you could just as well say intel q9550 ayou could just as well say intel q9550 are broken and that intel should bin them instead of charging extra for the fixed q9550s :) May 21 05:43:30 AMD currently has no answer for Intel's upcoming SSE4 instructions, which may widen the performance gap further in selected applications. On the other hand, unlike Intel's quad-core parts, which are basically two dual-core CPUs using a shared bus interface, Phenom has four distinct cores, which should also offer benefits. May 21 05:43:48 washington post 2007 May 21 05:43:53 november May 21 05:44:36 http://money.cnn.com/quote/quote.html?symb=AMD&time=5yr May 21 05:44:55 * Macer points at november 2007 May 21 05:46:21 He also said the scarcity of review units was due to the complexity of a rollout that also involves the new 790FX Spider chip set and ATI 3800 series graphics cards, not because of any problem fabricating the new chips May 21 05:46:54 now mind you they had 1 month from a rollout.. and they are telling the washington post their "QUAD CORE" cpu is being released. May 21 05:48:55 are you guys STILL going on about the core thing? May 21 05:49:10 no. but i am reading about it May 21 05:49:26 omfg May 21 05:49:31 how hard is it to just PICK ONE AND BUY May 21 05:49:41 you're spending more time on it than the price difference is worth May 21 05:49:53 er.. i'm not :) May 21 05:49:59 i already bought the phenom II May 21 05:50:00 lol May 21 05:50:05 luke-jr: is it spent from your pocket or your time? May 21 05:50:29 the discussion was really on the fact that amd released a faulty processor and sold it off and that it was seen as being broken May 21 05:51:01 http://www.wired.com/techbiz/people/news/2007/10/rattner May 21 05:51:03 Myrtti: well, it keeps making the channel red May 21 05:51:18 that's wired magazine's interview with intel's cto May 21 05:51:50 I'm happy with my Phenom x4 May 21 05:51:52 :) at the bottom he talks about amd May 21 05:52:02 So, yes, (AMD has) a four-core product. I'm sure when they looked at their yield losses, they said, "Wow, we can offer a three-core version of this if one of those cores are dead or slow or whatever it turns out to be." May 21 05:52:19 now that's an unbiased person to ask :) May 21 05:52:23 lol May 21 05:52:33 no.. it is hard to tell if he is defending them or helping them May 21 05:52:54 at the very bottom where he talks about amd's tri cores May 21 05:53:18 well intel too sells with various combinations of broken cache May 21 05:53:21 amd said they released them because there was a small market for quad cores haha May 21 05:53:46 ShadowJK: but it didn't disable the core because the cache was broken May 21 05:53:52 while amd sells also the ones with working cache but a broken core May 21 05:54:00 heh May 21 05:54:23 Rattner: I wouldn't make that much of it. This is a yield-improvement technique, plain and simple. IBM and Sony with their Cell processor -- they have eight (processors) on that that chip, and they said, well seven is the actually the number and one is a spare, or one is dead May 21 05:54:28 because both do the broken cache thing nobody thinks about it anymore May 21 05:54:37 look at that.. bitchslapped 3 competitors with one statement May 21 05:54:42 that guy is my hero :) May 21 05:55:05 and even makes it look like he is being nice when really he is saying "our shit is less broken than theirs" May 21 05:55:09 haha May 21 05:55:40 he isn't saying or implying that though :) May 21 05:55:59 i don't know. it looks like he picked his words very carefully for that one May 21 05:56:13 where he doesn't want to come off as arrogant but still wants to bitchslap the other guys May 21 05:57:23 i mean if you read into it... he is saying "sure.. sometimes things aren't perfect.. but ibm and sony are selling dead cell processors and amd is releasing something that can't compete against us since it's also broken" May 21 05:57:50 he's probably jelous intel didn't think of it first :) but that might also be because intel didn't have any genuine 4core cpus May 21 05:58:08 lol.. i suppose not.. but still he was probably clicking his heels after that interview May 21 05:58:45 he just got put into the #2 spot of Macer's hero list... bill gates is still #1 May 21 05:59:40 they glue together 2 dual cores, so that gives them higher yields at cost of performance, but they're so far ahead it doesnt matter if they're 50 or 55 percent faster :) May 21 05:59:56 lol May 21 06:00:36 yeah i suppose they aren't "spider" tech.. but they were doing pretty well with that method May 21 06:00:52 like i said. i think amd produces some awesome processors .. but that X3... it just left a bad taste May 21 06:01:24 ... May 21 06:01:52 ah the aeshetics of choosing a CPU :) May 21 06:02:07 I go by price mostly... May 21 06:02:39 same here. usually I end up buying the mobo+cpu special of the week when it looks good enough May 21 06:02:44 heh May 21 06:02:45 yeah May 21 06:02:58 but I might not upgrade my desktop anymore at this rate May 21 06:03:01 why doesn't anyone make true vertical LCDs May 21 06:03:05 ever buy an X3? :) May 21 06:03:11 I have an X4 May 21 06:03:18 why not the X3? May 21 06:03:26 almost got an X3 but newegg had a crazy deal on the X4 that I got May 21 06:03:31 Macer, I'll wait until there is a fry's or newegg special on an x3+mobo :) May 21 06:03:31 ended up being cheaper May 21 06:03:43 theinquirer has high praize for x3 saying it's the most exciting thing for enthusiasts in many years :) May 21 06:04:00 inquirer? May 21 06:04:10 heh May 21 06:04:12 isn't that a tabloid? May 21 06:04:21 that's enquierer May 21 06:04:23 or whatever May 21 06:04:24 no May 21 06:04:27 ah .. :) i see May 21 06:04:31 but yeah, inquirer almost is May 21 06:04:37 Proteous: haha May 21 06:05:01 is everything ok in the world of nokia? May 21 06:05:11 now nvidia on the other hand has a real defect issue on hand May 21 06:05:12 no, my n97 hasn't arrived yet May 21 06:05:24 I have a friend who works at Nvidia May 21 06:05:29 does the n97 support tmob? May 21 06:05:32 3G? May 21 06:05:33 no May 21 06:05:36 damnit May 21 06:05:37 :) May 21 06:05:41 nothing does except special Tmobile phones May 21 06:05:42 Macer: just peachy May 21 06:06:01 Proteous: that sucks... i want an n9x that supports tmob already May 21 06:06:02 almost all their chips from the last few years are dying (physically) May 21 06:06:14 they use the standard 1900 and 2100 freq but in a different way May 21 06:06:23 i thought they used 1700 May 21 06:06:28 not compatable with your normal 3g phones that work on ATT May 21 06:06:43 who can remember numbers May 21 06:06:45 gah May 21 06:06:50 heh May 21 06:06:52 I'd have to look it up to double check May 21 06:06:57 works with their edge :-\ May 21 06:06:58 but it still won't work :P May 21 06:07:00 yeah May 21 06:07:02 but that's just not cutting it May 21 06:07:03 works with edge May 21 06:07:17 i take my n95 when i don't need to do net stuff.. like taking my son to the park May 21 06:07:20 it's sad, tmobile has better data plans May 21 06:07:21 it takes awesome photos and video May 21 06:07:22 * Proteous cries May 21 06:07:27 yeah they sure do May 21 06:07:35 i *HATE* att :) May 21 06:07:47 if i am ever in my lifetime in a position to buy them out and sell them at a loss i would do it May 21 06:08:07 and tmobile is putting up a new tower 1000 feet from my house... May 21 06:08:14 haha May 21 06:08:24 you might as well run a cat6 cable to it May 21 06:08:27 lol May 21 06:09:02 i like my G1.. android isn't too bad.. but man i LOVE my n95 and wish it woudl work with tmob's 3G May 21 06:09:23 there's always the palm preeeeeeee May 21 06:09:43 i wouldn't buy a thing that has Web in its OS name :) May 21 06:09:47 lol May 21 06:10:05 I almost got a G1 but I wanted a higher rez screen May 21 06:10:07 the gigabyte n810 wannabe seemed nice tho May 21 06:10:16 and something with a battery that lasts more then 4 hours May 21 06:10:17 Proteous: yeah. it's pretty low May 21 06:10:25 Proteous: you can get an extended battery for it May 21 06:10:29 yeah May 21 06:10:37 I was mostly joking about the battery part May 21 06:10:42 they have a 2600mah for $50 from some company that lasts like 48 hours May 21 06:10:50 but it bulks up your phone :) May 21 06:10:55 I bet May 21 06:11:17 you could make one that fits in a special belt that is connected to the phone by a cord May 21 06:11:21 but i seriously love my n95 .. i want 3G on it with tmob :( May 21 06:11:30 really? May 21 06:11:32 you don't say May 21 06:11:50 have you used an n97? May 21 06:11:52 no querty for ssh == no good May 21 06:12:00 haha May 21 06:12:03 yeah that does kind of suck May 21 06:12:10 but there's always an su9w bt keyboard ;) May 21 06:12:16 8w May 21 06:12:23 hard to use while walking down the street May 21 06:12:34 e70 is the best for ssh :) May 21 06:12:35 i don't ssh while walking down teh street ;) May 21 06:12:50 if you want to see 4 letters at at time sure May 21 06:12:54 i wanted the n95 more for the video capabilities than anything May 21 06:12:59 then you are not l337 Macer May 21 06:13:01 lol May 21 06:13:02 well.. and the 3G :) May 21 06:13:04 haha May 21 06:13:10 heh May 21 06:13:21 I use ssh for my IM and email May 21 06:13:21 and the cam May 21 06:13:31 so it's important May 21 06:13:37 you use it for IM? :) why not just use an app on the phone? May 21 06:13:52 for both actually May 21 06:14:22 because I can have a persistant IM/irc session that runs on a server that I can connect to from wherever I can get a ssh session, which is anywhere May 21 06:14:27 it's very usefull May 21 06:14:38 speaking of n95.. i need to use it tomorrow so i should swap the sim out May 21 06:14:42 ssh+screen+irssi+bitlbee May 21 06:15:04 +mutt May 21 06:15:05 heh May 21 06:15:29 its a bummer that the n810 has no alt key :-/ May 21 06:15:31 today is thurs? wtf? May 21 06:15:34 makes Emacs unusable for me May 21 06:15:51 makes irssi more dificult to use as well May 21 06:16:11 although you can haxor the keyboard to add one I belive May 21 06:16:18 also, no pipe May 21 06:16:18 never tried myself May 21 06:16:19 wtf May 21 06:16:30 none of them have esc/alt :( May 21 06:17:36 but i guess you have esc in xterm on the touchscreen of n810 and pipe is addable there May 21 06:17:44 hm. i haven't gotten paid yet. wtf May 21 06:17:50 * Macer will give them til 2 May 21 06:17:59 i'm on sick leave so my pay has gotten strange May 21 06:18:33 then you will put strychnine in the guacamole May 21 06:18:44 i found a cheap bt keyboard, but I find i only use it occasionally, even with n800 May 21 06:19:15 a BT keyboard sorta defeats the purpouse of having a tablet for me May 21 06:19:37 i discovered I have insufficient number of hands for holding both keyboard and device :) May 21 06:19:41 lol May 21 06:19:42 Proteous: i couldn't stand pecking at my n800 anymore May 21 06:19:53 some sort of belt mounted stand May 21 06:19:59 then you could ssh while walking down the street May 21 06:20:11 especially after i got a g1 and used the qwerty for a while May 21 06:20:16 and with a keyboard mounted to your crotch you'd be soooo l337 May 21 06:20:35 Proteous: i always figured that someone would make pressure gloves May 21 06:20:37 :) May 21 06:20:46 I had a 770, wasn't too fond of the OSK May 21 06:20:49 where you walk down the street typing with your hands May 21 06:20:58 oddly my n810 is on the desk and im using n800... the touchscreen on it annoys me less May 21 06:20:58 and have your phone hooked up into glasses that give you a hud May 21 06:21:04 I also wasn't too fond of the WSOD May 21 06:21:08 heh May 21 06:21:16 why hasn't anybody made hud glasses yet? May 21 06:21:28 heh May 21 06:21:29 they can't be that hard to make May 21 06:21:34 there are hud glasses May 21 06:21:39 are there ?? May 21 06:21:46 because it's not easy, and there isn't much of a market for it, and they give you a nasty headache May 21 06:21:56 ShadowJK: are they huge? May 21 06:21:59 i've seen them mentioned in context of beagleboard May 21 06:22:00 like 5" thick or something? May 21 06:22:02 heh, yes May 21 06:22:08 damn :) May 21 06:22:18 someone needs to make them the size of normal glasses May 21 06:22:19 haha May 21 06:22:36 a bit thicker than sunglasses it looked like on the photos May 21 06:22:39 * Macer pictures having a phone in his glasses May 21 06:22:54 oakley makes mp3 glasses.. why not hud? cmon oakley! May 21 06:23:03 wtf May 21 06:23:04 from yesterday: http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/05/19/1734244 May 21 06:23:44 I have been awaiting a lightweight, head-mounted display that actually has decent resolution and doesn't look like a brick tied to your face May 21 06:23:48 hahahaha May 21 06:23:54 hehe May 21 06:24:28 they're all low res :( May 21 06:24:56 wow May 21 06:24:56 hmm, there was one that didn't look bad to me May 21 06:25:04 those wrap 920s are pretty awesome May 21 06:25:06 you looked at it by glancing down May 21 06:25:08 for tv and video, i guess May 21 06:25:21 Coming Fall of 2009 May 21 06:25:27 he is right though. the res is too low May 21 06:25:35 but those might be awesome for a phone. how do they get the video? May 21 06:25:44 depends on what you want to use it for May 21 06:26:24 composite probably May 21 06:26:28 a heads up gps, weather/time, incoming mail/msg/call kind of thing wouldn't be bad May 21 06:26:39 johnx: no it wouldn't May 21 06:27:01 wonder how much those will cost May 21 06:27:03 i want some :) May 21 06:27:04 320x240 for some arrows and text with lots of antialiasing May 21 06:27:07 what can you get out of the video out on highend nokias, svideo and composite? May 21 06:27:26 640x480 is kind of crappy but May 21 06:27:40 ShadowJK: i have never tried it May 21 06:27:42 lots of aliasing you mean? :) May 21 06:27:44 http://www.myvu.com/Myvyu-Shades-C25.aspx <- these look a lot goofier on him then I pictured they would :/ May 21 06:28:14 lol! May 21 06:28:19 yeah they do May 21 06:28:25 heh, well the aliasing is free, the antialiasing is user provided ;P May 21 06:28:43 the wrap looks a lot more realistic May 21 06:28:50 he might just be a goofy looking guy though :D May 21 06:29:06 the thing is I want a glance down interface, not something covering my whole field of vision May 21 06:29:59 cool May 21 06:32:43 and they must be indistinguishable from normal glasses so your boss doesn't realize you're watching simpsons May 21 06:33:25 still, this stuff is a lot closer than it was 10 years ago :D May 21 06:34:00 taking too long. govt thieving capital. not enough tech investment May 21 06:34:02 I remember looking at it in 1999/2000 and it cost more than I paid for my current car ... May 21 07:09:19 morning May 21 08:06:22 Morning, all May 21 08:06:53 morning May 21 08:07:19 af-sb-init.sh command not found May 21 08:07:22 hi May 21 08:07:27 morning jaffaf May 21 08:07:28 -f May 21 08:08:05 i am getting an error af-sb-init.sh command not found May 21 08:08:54 in DIABLO_ARMEL while giving af-sb-init.sh start May 21 08:09:11 The shift supervisor then deceived the radiation control supervisor and entered the room of the incident and possibly attempted to pour the solution down a floor drain, causing a large nuclear reaction that irradiated the shift supervisor with a fatal dose of radiation. The shift supervisor's actions are the subject of a Darwin Award.[11] May 21 08:09:31 lol May 21 08:25:46 Cherenkov radiation is produced by charged particles which are travelling through a dielectric substance at a speed greater than the speed of light in that medium. May 21 08:25:50 wtf May 21 08:27:18 #physics May 21 08:42:56 what dates are the summit on again May 21 08:43:49 october, start May 21 08:43:52 i think May 21 08:44:08 9-11? May 21 08:44:15 of october I mean May 21 08:44:30 yeah May 21 08:45:07 got it \o thx May 21 10:04:46 morning May 21 10:12:22 hi lardster May 21 10:12:48 * pupnik passes out lard to all May 21 10:20:15 * lardman gets the bacon frying May 21 10:20:30 pupnik: you're first in line don't worry May 21 10:21:09 only because you have bacon fat introvenously May 21 10:28:21 mmm. introveinous bacon May 21 10:34:02 might have to be lardons so they can travel through the valves May 21 10:34:11 small lardons at that May 21 10:45:05 how should we test the application suggested here: http://wiki.maemo.org/Accelerometers ? May 21 10:45:39 I don't have the device :P May 21 10:46:20 didnt someone have a usb one plugged in? and isnt craves1 working on some addin for it May 21 10:47:21 does the wiimote driver work, or can it be jimmied to supply values on that same /sys/class branch? May 21 10:48:43 well, it's using the future d-bus accelerometer interface, so I think is fremantle specific May 21 10:49:42 ok, but if we could hackup the wiimote stack to fake it but using the same location and values as the expected future stuff then it would work wouldnt it? May 21 10:50:06 i remember looking at wiimote stuff a couple of years ago and the params that the wiki page says looks pretty similar to all that stuff May 21 10:50:32 if we can plug some kinda of acceleromter to the SDK, we probably can test this feature, or probably not, letme check :P May 21 10:51:15 what does i2c-adapter mean May 21 10:51:32 cos google is giving me results from lots of places May 21 10:51:40 not accel specific May 21 10:52:00 is a path May 21 10:52:02 ahhhhh May 21 10:52:05 "The I2C bus helps you monitor the health of your system" May 21 10:52:27 so its a generic input device - for fans and temp and stuff as wlel May 21 10:53:06 where normally are some kinda o hardware sensors, bluetooth, leds May 21 10:53:18 openmoko has accel :O May 21 10:53:27 yes two May 21 10:53:45 kewl May 21 10:54:14 apparently the same model that the fremantle device will have May 21 10:56:12 anyway gonna ask on talk, if there is some magic way to test the stuff on that page or it is just for the luck ones with the device :P May 21 10:56:48 VDVsx, do you still have your openmoko May 21 10:56:56 and does it still work May 21 10:57:15 lcuk, yes :P May 21 10:57:36 have you considered getting mer onto it and testing this yourself May 21 10:57:47 does mer even work on it now, i know there was noises May 21 10:59:01 which openmoko device do you have? May 21 10:59:04 ok, flash is getting the boot May 21 10:59:58 a dash or something? May 21 10:59:58 lcuk, appear that the d-bus api is closed yet, at least I don't found anything in the repos May 21 11:00:12 then go to the fs May 21 11:00:15 Macer, nop GTA-02, neo freerunner May 21 11:01:01 how is the freerunner? May 21 11:01:29 VDVsx: know of a decent firmware where gps and such works on the freerunner? :P May 21 11:02:51 * Macer stares at the debug boar May 21 11:02:52 board May 21 11:02:59 Stskeeps, last time I used my device, everything worked, are you talking about the kernel image right ? May 21 11:03:05 not sure May 21 11:03:37 Macer, have some problems, and a big lack of decent software :P May 21 11:04:04 and it being armv4t just makes it more difficult :P May 21 11:06:09 Stskeeps, you probably can used the FSO stack to test/debug the harware, is available in the debian repos May 21 11:07:02 mytube needs sort-by-date May 21 11:07:33 i thought tubes were sorted by date anyway May 21 11:07:36 first in first out May 21 11:08:46 alright headed to WA, bbl :) May 21 11:08:57 see yall from another state ^_^ May 21 11:21:29 humm, a maemo developer competition on the DK weekend, should be fun :P May 21 11:29:59 VDVsx, i keep pondering that May 21 11:30:20 is there a page May 21 11:30:50 lcuk, go for it, the prize is a nxxx :P May 21 11:31:02 link May 21 11:31:25 1 sec, I'm joking about the prize May 21 11:31:59 lcuk, http://wiki.maemo.org/Mozilla_Maemo_Danish_Weekend#Schedule May 21 11:32:12 at the end of the section May 21 11:32:18 :D nokia nxxx edition is endororsed by sasha grey May 21 11:33:50 heh, since its "some hacker competition" May 21 11:34:26 should i push for "coolest new microapp in liqbase" ;) May 21 11:36:39 lcuk, heheh May 21 11:50:57 jeremiah_hacking, i hope you dont have a facemask on May 21 11:53:06 eh? May 21 11:53:54 if you are hacking you dont wanna look like jason May 21 11:54:11 :P May 21 11:54:28 I know what you did last summer! May 21 11:55:56 hello all ! May 21 11:55:56 :O yeah, i wrote liqbase lol May 21 11:56:20 hello oDuda \o May 21 11:56:35 somebody knows about cards life using as virtual memory on NIT ? May 21 11:56:52 hello lcuk ! hows ? May 21 11:57:39 oDuda, obviously lots of writing to a card isnt good (its not good for hard disks either..) May 21 11:57:53 but the price of them is such that as long as you have backups i wouldnt worry May 21 11:58:59 lcuk: sure... i worry on these cards during less than 1 one year... May 21 11:59:31 lcuk: is that the case ? May 21 11:59:47 oDuda, you should worry about all online media storage after 1 minute. the lifespan of anything is not 100% certain May 21 12:00:03 you can break a new harddrive within minutes May 21 12:00:08 I wish lcuk wasn't right, but he is. May 21 12:00:18 or the same one could last for decades May 21 12:00:26 backups are key May 21 12:00:36 hahahaha this subject affects all the people.... May 21 12:01:15 jeremiah_hacking, fact of life. if you assume failure from day one you are protected (without going overboard) May 21 12:01:35 Yes. May 21 12:01:38 Indeed. May 21 12:01:54 Frog. May 21 12:01:57 * lcuk tries to be a defensive programmer :) May 21 12:02:00 lcuk: thanks... if its will during or not.. i think that the virtual memory is needed to avoid against on time crashes too... May 21 12:02:16 yes i agree May 21 12:02:33 with me ? May 21 12:02:45 yes, put the vm on lol May 21 12:03:12 yeah just using the 128 that comes with N800 as VM... May 21 12:03:26 128 mb card... May 21 12:04:04 to use 128mb is a bit little... so ... that will be a vm memory... hehe May 21 12:04:07 i didnt know the n800 came with anything, i know it had slots May 21 12:04:20 they're teasers May 21 12:04:26 * lcuk didnt think the n800 was a computer ;) May 21 12:04:28 the 770 came w/ 64mb May 21 12:04:32 it cames with a 128mb card... May 21 12:04:38 ahh enough to get you started May 21 12:04:57 iirc the n800's was actually mini w/ a mini->sd adapter May 21 12:04:58 yes... but i put a new 4gb on it too... so... May 21 12:05:09 but i could be wrong, it's been a while May 21 12:05:14 timeless_mbp: It wasn't. May 21 12:05:36 128mb full size? oh well May 21 12:05:47 no ! 128mb mini... May 21 12:05:54 I assumed it was old stock they couldn't sell any more. May 21 12:06:10 * timeless_mbp looks between oDuda and derf ... May 21 12:06:13 * timeless_mbp is confused May 21 12:06:40 ohhhhh at all pages that i saw... the 128mb card follow the product.. May 21 12:06:51 does it matter - its a small card easily replaced May 21 12:07:18 timeless, dont be confused, it puts you off working :P May 21 12:07:25 that's irc ;-) May 21 12:08:00 * timeless_mbp cries May 21 12:08:03 http://www.nokiausa.com/buy-online/accessories May 21 12:08:09 hover over "Recommender" May 21 12:08:12 is it a link? May 21 12:08:14 and about to setting the VM in N800... the max is 12X mb ? May 21 12:08:48 the ui max might have been May 21 12:09:03 in practice, linux and vm isn't such a wonderful combination May 21 12:09:11 yes... and hacking conf file is possible ? May 21 12:09:19 no ? May 21 12:09:21 in general you'll find that it's really one app that needs all the vm May 21 12:09:34 and in that case, you'll end up swapping to death May 21 12:09:48 death ? May 21 12:09:54 the win is mostly in paging out all the other stupid apps that you aren't using May 21 12:10:00 timeless_mbp, you remember your stress page May 21 12:10:06 128mb of vm for the apps you aren't using, 128mb for your one app May 21 12:10:18 lcuk: we were testing and talking about it this week May 21 12:10:19 :) May 21 12:10:30 why do you ask? :) May 21 12:10:42 the page is timeless :) May 21 12:10:50 heh cool, well ive been thinking about it as well and with something ive done i think it would be possible to browse it from tablet :) May 21 12:11:07 i tried using it to test the next Images app May 21 12:11:14 every single step of that test failed *miserably* May 21 12:11:23 its similar in theory to the graffiti wall May 21 12:11:30 (starting w/ just downloading the page) May 21 12:11:54 * timeless_mbp nods May 21 12:12:04 what the graffiti wall does (and my cells in general) is each cell holds the filename and only if that cell is requested to be rendered does the image get loaded May 21 12:12:17 * timeless_mbp nods May 21 12:12:27 so when i show the wall only the first 12 sketches/images are loaded May 21 12:12:29 timeless_mbp: should i turn the VM off in N800 ? May 21 12:12:33 but then as scrolled they are loaded May 21 12:12:41 have you seen the playtest for liqbase yet May 21 12:12:47 the new new one May 21 12:13:08 cos that has the effect visible on the maemo users tiled images wall May 21 12:13:23 oDuda: i'm not saying that May 21 12:13:29 i'm just saying it isn't a panacea May 21 12:13:38 oDuda, turn it on, forget about it May 21 12:13:43 i hate panaceas... May 21 12:13:43 if everything dies replace card May 21 12:13:46 too..hehe May 21 12:13:47 be happy, dont stress May 21 12:13:52 i'm saying don't spend too much time thinking about it May 21 12:14:01 panaceas to me is useless too.. May 21 12:14:10 i think w/ most things on the n800 the right answer is "turn it on to the max, and forget about it" May 21 12:14:20 e.g. browser cache which ships w/ the smallest size May 21 12:14:24 = stupid :) May 21 12:14:33 oDuda: i use swap and got better uptime less reboots May 21 12:14:37 you are right timeless May 21 12:14:49 oDuda: mostly depressed May 21 12:14:55 i leave my n800 idle and charging and get amazing uptime May 21 12:15:23 hahahahahaha... idle without uptime... May 21 12:15:33 boot uptime... May 21 12:15:39 time to bootup... May 21 12:16:14 where is all ? May 21 12:16:26 anyway timeless, ill carry on pondering stress :P May 21 12:16:33 lcuk: some advice May 21 12:16:40 1. have you seen cooliris? May 21 12:16:41 * lcuk puts it on a back burner May 21 12:16:57 2. you don't want to load "just what you see" May 21 12:17:11 you want to load "what you should see" and "what you are likely to want to see next" May 21 12:17:37 iris wont work well on stress though May 21 12:17:43 the society is like that... May 21 12:17:44 you have to wait for entire thing to load properly surely May 21 12:17:57 i agree about loading future items as well May 21 12:18:27 lcuk: to be honest, i've never really used iris May 21 12:18:29 the old graffiti view used idle time to automatically load the next sketches May 21 12:18:38 the video looks right May 21 12:18:47 for pre-stored content it looks amazing May 21 12:19:10 but there has to be a large cost in loading those textures over the pcix or agp bus in the first place May 21 12:19:58 so yeah - you can have an entire super wall rotatable but it doesnt look like its got google earth type stitching etc May 21 12:23:37 hey jegp i am jecp hehe... May 21 12:23:59 bbl May 21 12:24:08 hb lcuk May 21 12:28:17 * timeless_mbp finally installs iris May 21 12:30:17 iris is what ? May 21 12:34:50 iris is for win ? May 21 12:39:11 http://www.iris.edu/seismon/ May 21 12:39:59 http://www.cooliris.com/ May 21 12:40:09 it works on linux and osx May 21 12:40:25 browsing does seem much snappier with flashplugin removed May 21 12:40:38 pupnik_: which platform? May 21 12:41:34 maemo May 21 12:42:33 pupnik_: note that our browser has one of the simplest ui's for toggling flash out of the box of any browser i've met May 21 12:43:58 thux: thank you... very cool aplication... run at n800 ? May 21 12:44:40 timeless, whenever this subject comes up, i wonder what the mileage of a generic clicktoview (like flashblock) would be that is binary standard plugin and doesnt depend on processing the entire js page searching for stuff the browser has already processed and identified as plugin May 21 12:45:02 ^reprocessing May 21 12:45:16 * timeless_mbp shrugs May 21 12:45:26 heh May 21 12:45:26 there have been a couple of plugin spy impls May 21 12:45:36 they basically do passthrough service to real plugins May 21 12:45:51 it's certainly technically possible to take one of those and have it do something /slightly/ more interesting May 21 12:45:55 (i.e. click to play) May 21 12:46:10 yeah i did some deep investigation on firefox/flashblock and found a whole load of limitations and things which could be done quicker May 21 12:46:15 personally, when i use firefox, i don't mind that noscript is blocking things for me May 21 12:46:18 the perf doesn't matter May 21 12:46:33 you're looking at it from the wrong perspective May 21 12:46:43 if you load a page and don't need th May 21 12:46:46 err May 21 12:46:55 imagine you visit http://stupid.example.com/ May 21 12:47:03 it can take 10s to load the page w/o images May 21 12:47:07 10s to load the images May 21 12:47:13 10s to load a flash applet May 21 12:47:20 now imagine that you don't need the images or flash applet May 21 12:47:36 imagine it cost you 9s for a script to prevent you from getting the flash and images May 21 12:47:43 19s is still cheaper than 20s or 30s May 21 12:48:17 but 10s to get and process the page and add the clicker is even better than 19s May 21 12:48:47 and that works generically no matter what page size May 21 12:48:50 and for all media types May 21 12:48:55 that req a plugin May 21 12:49:18 also - for that extra 9 seconds the flash might actually be running May 21 12:49:27 (as it does using flashblock on firefox) May 21 12:50:12 * timeless_mbp puzzles May 21 12:50:17 that's not my experience w/ noscript May 21 12:50:22 * timeless_mbp doesn't use flashblock May 21 12:50:35 flashblock runs AFTER the page has been loaded, the flash is instentiated and runs and only gets replaced after May 21 12:50:39 w/ noscript, the flash apps afaict are never instantiated until i click on them, not even downloaded May 21 12:50:40 yeah maybe May 21 12:50:46 try switching May 21 12:51:30 most sites i visit have js tho and its useful May 21 12:51:45 i dont want to have to unblock each individually May 21 12:51:49 * timeless_mbp tries to kill safari May 21 12:52:08 noscript can default to letting the main site's js run May 21 12:52:18 and you typically whitelist domains May 21 12:52:24 really, give it a try May 21 12:52:27 cool, ill give it a try then May 21 13:16:19 hey, i was productive at work today! May 21 13:16:45 i'm not sure why wally from dilbert suddenly appeared in front of my eyes May 21 13:17:50 Does he have any messages for you? May 21 13:18:09 RST38h: http://dilbert.com/fast/2009-04-09/ May 21 13:18:19 ;) May 21 13:21:56 personally, i prefer http://dilbert.com/fast/2009-04-05/ May 21 13:22:55 hehe May 21 13:25:30 this is of course nice: http://dilbert.com/fast/2009-04-19/ May 21 13:25:35 but i haven't fought him in a while May 21 13:26:34 http://dilbert.com/fast/2009-04-23/ May 21 13:27:51 timeless_mbp: you'd want to see the next one, and wonder if that applies to nokia cameras :P May 21 13:28:23 i'm going to pretend that on the advice of my lawyer i neither look at nor comment on any such item May 21 13:28:24 :) May 21 13:29:01 I'm so happy there is no culture of rebates in the shops in northern europe :P May 21 13:29:12 suihkulokki: they're called expense reports May 21 13:29:29 and i think at this point i've failed to collect between 2,000 and 5,000 EUR May 21 13:30:11 http://dilbert.com/fast/2009-04-28/ May 21 13:31:51 http://dilbert.com/fast/2009-05-03/ May 21 13:33:16 http://dilbert.com/fast/2009-05-08/ May 21 13:33:55 and there went timeless_mbp's productivity ;) May 21 13:34:03 yeah well... http://dilbert.com/fast/2009-05-10/ May 21 13:34:17 i only have 20 patches to put into bugs (must file first) May 21 13:36:43 heh.. i think my idle time in cph will be used to file bugs towards maemo really - we have started cleaning up our act so we can now see where our fixes are :P May 21 13:36:59 cph? May 21 13:37:08 speaking of bugs May 21 13:37:10 yeah, the danish developer weekend? :P May 21 13:37:12 can you file a bug for me? May 21 13:37:26 possibly May 21 13:37:35 are you banned from bugtracker by now? ;) May 21 13:37:59 my results aren't improving w/ time May 21 13:47:13 hello May 21 13:47:57 lo andrewfblack May 21 13:53:46 just released some new screenshots of minimalist theme May 21 13:56:28 andrew: itt? May 21 13:57:02 lbt: I played around with some default values in QAbstractScrollArea last night May 21 13:57:30 andrew: do make menu bar smaller May 21 13:57:49 andrew: the same size as the Welcome bar, with the same font, different background color so that it stands out May 21 13:58:47 andrew: lines separating categories are ugly, why not use the same white bars as used in the stats at the bototm of the same screenshot? May 21 13:59:13 fiferboy: any suggestions? May 21 13:59:14 Edit|Quote|Quick Reply should be in much smaller font May 21 13:59:30 There is no need for word "Reply" under "Testing" May 21 13:59:54 lbt: VMAX at 500 and DECEL_PC at 93 work REALLY nicely for me. May 21 14:00:41 I also tried SENSITIVITY at 6 (like in h-p-a) but it was too sensitive. 20 seems good to me. May 21 14:07:55 fwiw, i just tested cooliris on stress May 21 14:08:02 it can't keep up for an initial pan :( May 21 14:12:01 fiferboy: OK... I'll change them here ... thanks May 21 14:12:15 No problem. May 21 14:12:57 I was just trying out the finger scrolling withint scratchbox, and the deceleration looks AMAZING when the system is fast enough for it. May 21 14:13:34 It looks nice enough on the tablet, but you can tell (at least with my application) that it is struggling a bit May 21 14:13:45 any tricks to get mplayer to handle toutube HD video? May 21 14:21:08 hm. watching a special on chernobyl May 21 14:29:31 lbt: I just added some quick code to theme all scrollbars (for fingerscroll areas) like Fremantle May 21 14:29:52 ooh May 21 14:30:16 mail me a patch? May 21 14:30:54 lbt: Will do. We could either have it on all the time (ie for Diablo as well) or put some Frementle IFDEFs around it. May 21 14:31:18 how about basing it on a dynamic property May 21 14:31:37 and defaulting on/off based o ifdefs May 21 14:32:06 lbt: That sounds good. I would like to use it in birdlist, so I could turn it on. Works for me. May 21 14:33:20 I notice you set a "FingerScrollable" property, so we could do it like that. May 21 14:33:32 yep May 21 14:34:22 Okay, I will change my code to use that before I send it off May 21 14:44:42 Meanwhile: http://jrioni.blogspot.com/ May 21 14:50:37 lbt: Your "FingerScrollable" property just works on a widget-by-widget basis, right? May 21 14:50:52 How do I get a global property for the entire application? May 21 14:52:22 qApp ? May 21 14:52:36 Awesome. May 21 14:52:36 :D May 21 14:57:35 RST38h: to make you and qgil happy I lowered the font size of reply links and main menu links May 21 15:00:18 anyone go any input for minimalist theme? May 21 15:01:48 it's too dark? May 21 15:02:05 did you look at new screenshots? May 21 15:02:09 andrewfblack: I will take a look, where is the URL again? May 21 15:02:23 * lbt shouldn't poke the lions.... May 21 15:02:25 I like minimal May 21 15:02:34 will have to look at screenshots on this posthttp://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=289040#post289040 May 21 15:03:47 andrewfblack: I like it. I will use it. May 21 15:03:51 looks good to me... qgil is right about the Edit/Quote text May 21 15:04:05 Thanks for doing all that work. May 21 15:04:40 jeremiah_hacking: no complaints at all? May 21 15:04:54 lbt: Yeah I lowered them May 21 15:05:02 andrewfblack: None. Not a single one. May 21 15:05:11 andrewfblack: Well, will it make me sexier? May 21 15:05:19 If not then I have to complain. May 21 15:08:33 lol May 21 15:08:49 jeremiah_hacking: minimalist themes always make you sexier May 21 15:17:05 jeremiah_hacking, you STILL hacking? :D May 21 15:21:17 * timeless_mbp kinda defeats a bug May 21 15:21:25 today was an officially productive day at work May 21 15:27:46 lcuk: About to stop. :P May 21 15:31:23 lbt: Do you have to register properties somewhere? May 21 15:34:11 Arg, I think I know my problem. I am not building my program against the modfied library version. May 21 15:35:08 hola May 21 15:40:47 hi there is Luke Dashjr or Stskeeps around=? May 21 15:40:59 … May 21 15:41:23 hi, about https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4380 May 21 15:41:48 is Mer able to circunvent the fact that the GPS driver expects a "user" user? May 21 15:43:10 qgil: gpsdriver aborts when getpwnam fails May 21 15:44:11 and can't there be a "user" user created in the system to make that driver happy? luke-jr ? May 21 15:45:49 shrug. my goal is to replace gpsdriver with something open. these problems are just the method I am focusing on at the moment before more complex methods. May 21 15:46:08 luke-jr: I guess you see the technical difficulties of playing with such driver... but it looks like you are overseeing that complications of opening it up May 21 15:46:32 is it that complex if TI IPR is stripped out? May 21 15:47:10 luke-jr: how do you strip IPR out? Is not that simple. May 21 15:47:47 if it's TI IPR, then presumably it preexists the Nokia code around it and can be identified easily? May 21 15:47:59 or is this more of a NDA-type issue? May 21 15:48:44 qgil: I'm not such I can speak for Stskeeps or others, but the intention of h-a-m patches I submitted was to remove Maemo-isms like "user" from code running on Mer, as the first thing it does - as an OS - is ask what user you want to create; and that the packages are intended to run on relatively arbitrary systems May 21 15:49:44 qgil: It would seem pretty horrible to have a *standard* "user" user, but perhaps a "gpsdriver-compat" package (which is open) could add the `user' account if a) gpsdriver can't be replaced; b) gpsdriver can't be changed to be programmed more flexibly or c) something else I've just forgotten May 21 15:49:46 Jaffa: and I understand that, but hopefully it is understandable that being able to user the Maemo binaries 'as is' in unofficial releases is already good enough May 21 15:50:01 * Jaffa nods May 21 15:50:37 qgil quick question, in the bug report you mention that inside the gps driver there is code for uploading this info the nokias servers? do we have any documentation on when this occurs or how to disable it? May 21 15:50:52 Might it be worth trying to get a Nokia policy change on future developments to not assume things like /home/user May 21 15:50:55 lcuk: that's is supl-daemon I think May 21 15:51:07 lbt: Have you tested your FingerScrollable dynamic property? May 21 15:51:15 no May 21 15:51:40 ok, just stuck out, the raw driver listens and decodes gps signals, it shouldnt ever need to talk ot or know about anything else May 21 15:51:41 I don't see where anything is connected to when an application changes the property. May 21 15:51:43 Jaffa: do you mind making a enhancement request, or pointing me to any already filed? May 21 15:51:45 though you do raise an interesting point, lcuk May 21 15:52:03 another reason not to have proprietary GPS driver, is to ensure our own personal privacy May 21 15:52:14 lbt: Do we need to use QDynamicPropertyChangeEvent? May 21 15:52:14 fiferboy: it's not an api... more a status flag May 21 15:52:34 Ah, mine needs to be something that is changed programatically, I think. May 21 15:52:43 er... that connection actually happens with the A-GPS and you are accepting the terms in that dialog asking for permissions to connect etc etc May 21 15:52:51 qgil: I'll try and have a look tonight for one, and raise one if there isn't one May 21 15:53:08 ahh ok qgil :) so its in agps and not in the gps driver itself May 21 15:53:23 * lcuk hasnt installed agps May 21 15:53:27 qgil: is it practical to get a quick low-level library to the GPS? May 21 15:53:56 luke-jr: I don't understand your question, sorry May 21 15:54:25 lbt: Or I can define a Q_PROPERTY for it to be read and set May 21 15:55:06 qgil: gpsdriver basically "converts" ttyS0 data to NMEA data; I'm assuming the NMEA output generation is not TI IPR, and the TI IPR is the ttyS0 end May 21 15:55:24 qgil: if Nokia can make a simple C library to take the ttyS0 end, we could write the other side from scratch May 21 15:55:54 luke-jr: I don't know the technical details but the basic thing is: that driver will stay as it is because all our development is focused on a completely different location architecture May 21 15:56:00 (ideally giving the library its ttyS0 path/pointer) May 21 15:56:08 luke-jr: If Nokia were doing that, they could put the effort into opening the non-TI NMEA-generation bit - since it'd have to be written anyway May 21 15:56:17 Which, as qgil says, ain't gonna happen May 21 15:56:28 qgil: how about supporting Nokia's current hardware? May 21 15:57:44 luke-jr: I have nothing to add to all that has been said about the support to N810 customers May 21 15:58:15 they are, it is supported and works :D todd on gps tells us where traffic circles are May 21 15:58:39 lcuk: it "works" with an unmaintained Maemo version May 21 15:59:14 luke-jr, expecting nokia to support every OS out there is impractical May 21 15:59:22 * Jaffa also wonders (because this is better than doing anything else) about whether, if this is a growing problem (see also 3D drivers), the community could realistically find (& fund?) someone to work on behalf of Nokia to do the necessary work to split things up into reusable binary blobs. May 21 15:59:25 should they supply windows drivers? May 21 15:59:34 lcuk: I'm not expecting them to, just expecting some kind of low-level library so *we* can write support ourselves May 21 15:59:38 But that assumes the work on behalf of Nokia Legal is of no cost/budget to Maemo Software May 21 16:00:13 there is this idea of getting a community developer sign an NDA and etc etc May 21 16:00:23 well, in practice things don't work like this May 21 16:00:47 NDAs are useful when the one who signs it can respond to liabilities May 21 16:00:57 qgil: What're the biggest obstacles? Drain on dev. team to support new developer? May 21 16:00:58 lcuk, we can try to setup community bounties for that propose May 21 16:01:14 if you are a developer of a Fortune500 company you won't have much trouble getting offers to sign an NDA May 21 16:01:22 eerr^^ Jaffa May 21 16:01:34 if you are a community developer is clear that in case of trouble you basically are no liable May 21 16:01:35 qgil: Ah, so an individual (even one in a company capacity?) doesn't have enough leverage to risk the leak? May 21 16:02:13 .. okay, what conversation did i just stumble into? May 21 16:02:16 TI sues you Jaffa - so what? May 21 16:02:38 Stskeeps: gpsdriver May 21 16:03:02 hmm May 21 16:03:10 qgil: Why, fundamentally, is a Nokia employee more trustworthy though? Losing one's job (if one wants to be malicious) isn't necessarily the end of the world May 21 16:03:10 qgil: so we need to find a CEO willing to back this? ;) May 21 16:03:21 the other option is to simply write the code, present it to Nokia as a fait accompli. and ask them to sign it off May 21 16:03:23 Now Maemo SW makes some kind of NDA agreement with Jaffa but then he goes and accidentally or not published the whole source code somewhere May 21 16:03:32 TI sues Jaffa? No, of course. May 21 16:03:45 and Nokia sues Jaffa? No of course. May 21 16:03:48 lardman: um, if we write the code w/o any help from Nokia, then why present it to them at all? May 21 16:03:51 No, TI sues Nokia. That's where the money is. May 21 16:04:03 luke-jr: to prevent from being sued by anyone May 21 16:04:05 Just like they would if a Maemo Software employee did the same. May 21 16:04:39 lardman: as Quim is mentioning, individuals have no reason to fear being sued :p May 21 16:04:52 qgil: my personal view is that gpsdriver is fine closed, we can make a wrapper to fix the user problem (simply hijacking the getpwnam call), it's not perfect and a simple GPSDRIVER_USER environment variable patch to gpsdriver (still closed) would also be most welcome May 21 16:04:53 well you could hire someone as a contractor, assuming you trust them, and pay them an arbitrary $1 for their work May 21 16:05:04 luke-jr doesn't share my view but i think more in direction of practicality May 21 16:05:20 +1 sts :) May 21 16:05:25 Stskeeps: agreed there May 21 16:05:27 lardman: still doesn't create liability May 21 16:05:32 Jaffa: companies work trusting each other - and companies trust their employees (even if they make them sign some papers just in case) May 21 16:05:38 middle ground path of least resistance works best for all concerned :) May 21 16:05:48 luke-jr: yes it does, being employed by the company in question May 21 16:05:51 a little aid to very small patches to closed source packages would always be welcome, if a wrapper is not trivial May 21 16:05:59 lardman: for $1, no loss if you lose that job May 21 16:06:26 * Jaffa wonders how wonderfully thorough Nokia's recruitment process must be ;-) May 21 16:06:32 luke-jr: the point is not the job, but the access and the fact that being a member of a large company you're more likely to be offered the NDA to sign May 21 16:06:57 lardman: I think qgil's point is that *Nokia* have everything to lose by taking the liability, and not the person signing the NDA May 21 16:07:03 lardman: yes, but Nokia isn't going to want to accept that liability May 21 16:07:18 Jaffa: well, you go through some rounds - I have heard worse horror stories from very popular companies May 21 16:07:22 Jaffa: as I said, depends if you trust the person May 21 16:07:31 luke-jr: btw, thanks for telling me which syscall i have to wrap :P May 21 16:07:37 Stskeeps: -.- May 21 16:07:56 Jaffa: and this is why Nokia won't do anything like signing an NDA with a community developer, no matter how many karma points ;) May 21 16:07:57 lardman: Indeed. I can see why Nokia (as a corporation) would make the distinction, even though I think we have good metrics - and evidence - of trustiness of particular people May 21 16:08:33 And so, at a practical level, the distinction is probably arbitrary (but, as I say, understandable to my corporate-addled mind) May 21 16:09:09 on the other hand, won't most professional community developers be incorporated? :P May 21 16:09:31 they have a tendancy to group together May 21 16:09:36 you need to apply first :) May 21 16:10:08 many community developers are now professionals working with Nokia, either as employees or external companies May 21 16:10:34 so which of these community developers are working with Nokia as an external company? May 21 16:10:42 presumably they could solve this? May 21 16:10:52 anyway, I hope the point about https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4380 is clear, even if you don't agree with the resolution May 21 16:11:17 qgil, but a lot of them are, just naming indt and igalia for starters :P May 21 16:11:34 qgil: from mer POV i agree - there might eventually be a need for simple patches to fix specific problems on some packages, but that's a totally different discussion May 21 16:11:41 luke-jr: where do you think many of these small companies come from http://wiki.maemo.org/Companies_in_Maemo_development May 21 16:11:43 qgil: so pvr will have to be a diy job then...? May 21 16:12:16 lardman no, we are still discussing with TI May 21 16:12:35 for them to do the work though? May 21 16:12:44 and they are willing to find a solution so that code can go out with a good legal relationship with the Kernel license May 21 16:12:55 ah ok May 21 16:12:56 that sounds like a huge leap forward :) May 21 16:13:03 qgil: can't discuss GPS with TI? :/ May 21 16:13:13 from what I hear, it's an obsolete model of theirs May 21 16:13:17 maybe they'll just let it go? May 21 16:13:22 ask them May 21 16:13:42 first things first and the pvr was the first thing that was asked May 21 16:13:57 Nokia releases gpsdriver code if we get clearance from TI? May 21 16:14:16 I'm actually amazed about the amount of time and attention both companies have put in the acceleration drivers May 21 16:14:17 qgil: much looking forward to hearing results of those talks, - even a open source kernel driver will be a big leap forward May 21 16:14:26 no, Ti would probably have to release you the specs and you write your own May 21 16:15:09 luke-jr: the other problem with gpsdriver is the supl stuff May 21 16:15:22 lardman: libsupld is BSD-licensed anyway May 21 16:16:18 yeah, probably a legal bug May 21 16:17:07 * Stskeeps continues making slides for copenhagen May 21 16:18:04 * lardman continues writing a report May 21 16:18:14 and dreaming dreams of PowerVR goodness May 21 16:19:19 * Stskeeps wonders how gtk doc building can take so long time May 21 16:19:27 lardman & other "accelerated" developers, if in the Maemo Summit you find some Kimmo Nikkanen May 21 16:19:41 please buy him a beer because he is being your secret godfather May 21 16:19:48 ok, will do :) May 21 16:19:57 he is an expert on that area, and he really cares about the community being able to experiment May 21 16:19:59 can we have a mugshot? :) May 21 16:21:19 we should make some location based game on "find the nokia employee and drink with him" May 21 16:21:34 Nokia employee bingo? May 21 16:21:51 got to get them all ;) May 21 16:22:37 yep May 21 16:22:39 or some % May 21 16:22:40 now I realize he has a web page: http://koti.mbnet.fi/knikkane/ May 21 16:22:58 Stskeeps, nokiamon :P May 21 16:23:29 VDVsx: .. almost sounds like a fun game to play :> May 21 16:24:38 lcuk: it's unreasonable to demand nokia provide Windows-ARM drivers for their tablets? May 21 16:24:41 darn May 21 16:24:44 * timeless_mbp won't buy another one May 21 16:24:54 qgil: I'll have to email him to put up his picture :) I wonder if the thought of all of us tracking him down to buy him beer will make him more or less likely to do so :D May 21 16:25:12 oh you mentioned that May 21 16:26:36 timeless_mbp: I'm already planning to go with some kind of SmartQ next time around. May 21 16:26:43 at least their stuff is open May 21 16:27:41 * qgil goes elsewhere May 21 16:27:42 bye May 21 16:27:45 cya :) May 21 16:27:56 next up on #maemo: luke-jr complaining of the closed source JPEG accelerator driver May 21 16:28:04 cheers qgil, assuming you see the logs to read this message :) May 21 16:28:18 Stskeeps: ah, well that's open actually May 21 16:28:24 Stskeeps: think it'll get to the infliential people? :p May 21 16:28:34 yes, it will really annoy them May 21 16:28:42 Stskeeps: I'm pretty happy about the SmartQ SoC specs being 100% open May 21 16:28:46 but hopefully it won't affect how they deal with the rest of the community May 21 16:28:55 luke-jr: you didn't notice the "CONFIDENTIAL" part of that pdf? May 21 16:28:56 :P May 21 16:28:58 lardman: hey, it was their own decisions that led to that comment May 21 16:29:05 Stskeeps: that doesn't make it apply as a NDA May 21 16:29:11 indeed, but there are reasons for the decisions May 21 16:29:59 luke-jr: what about the touchbook, when it starts being real? :) May 21 16:30:08 * Stskeeps 'd get a touchbook. May 21 16:30:19 well, here's hoping it makes them wake up and realize there's no real middle ground if they want a faithful market May 21 16:30:25 Corsac: wtf is that? May 21 16:30:28 ! May 21 16:30:43 http://www.alwaysinnovating.com/touchbook/ May 21 16:30:50 how can you not know what a touchbook is May 21 16:30:51 luke-jr: no, you're wrong there. We went through all of this arguing business back when we first asked for the pvr driver May 21 16:31:10 it's practically a portable beagleboard May 21 16:31:12 * Corsac 's brother in law will work at AI starting next year May 21 16:31:31 Stskeeps: it's not in my field of interest? May 21 16:31:33 looks too big May 21 16:31:56 Corsac: I'd never heard of it, looks cool though May 21 16:32:26 Stskeeps: maybe my wife will want one May 21 16:32:31 lardman: http://gizmodo.com/5162584/first-hands-on-touch-book-is-a-part+netbook-part+tablet May 21 16:32:32 yeah, it's more netbook sized than NIT sized May 21 16:32:58 still, 10-12 hours of battery life May 21 16:33:12 I still want something inbetween, umid or psion 5 sized May 21 16:34:24 I just love the fridge stuff May 21 16:38:57 I want to max out my pocket space :p May 21 16:39:16 maybe fold out into a dual-display May 21 16:41:52 Ah, absolutism is fun. May 21 16:42:40 Evangelism May 21 16:42:50 but yeah May 21 16:43:06 how goes it anyway General? May 21 16:43:07 dosbox May 21 16:43:20 lo GeneralAntilles May 21 16:47:05 Work, work, work May 21 16:47:35 lardman, '100% open or nobody will ever buy' ;) May 21 16:47:38 I am! May 21 16:47:55 yeah, I can't quite get that attitude May 21 17:06:33 lardman, especially since it has zero basis in reality. ;) May 21 17:08:35 can't connect to the garage svn... May 21 17:08:41 someone can confirm it? May 21 17:08:59 the git server works great though May 21 17:09:26 * Stskeeps yawns May 21 17:10:04 GAN800: yeah, feels like the "discussions" from back when we were campaigning for the PowerVR driver doens't it :) May 21 17:10:41 GAN800: did you see qgil's comments re. Ti & ImgTech being interested in getting a workable driver available May 21 17:10:44 ? May 21 17:10:54 lardman, didn't you hear? Communities are cyclical. May 21 17:11:17 I must just have a very long wavelength May 21 17:11:22 or low velocity May 21 17:12:15 at least we didn't have "Let's get Windows CE working!" May 21 17:12:32 we used to have that though :) May 21 17:12:48 fuck CE< i want windows 7 on my hardware May 21 17:12:53 and the questions about geting WINE working :D May 21 17:13:15 lcuk: tut tut tut, there are young viewers at this time of night May 21 17:13:17 heh simon we make extensive use of wine already, and beer May 21 17:13:29 don't mention the Windows 7 word May 21 17:13:34 flip CE< then even - apologies May 21 17:13:34 * lardman is drinking a beer too :) May 21 17:13:52 ohh yeah a beer would be good at this point May 21 17:14:06 i dont think the shop will serve jake yet tho May 21 17:14:45 why not give him your drivers licence? He could turn up in a car to buy the beers May 21 17:15:12 lardman, yeah, saw it. May 21 17:15:19 he'd probably get in more trouble with the cops for buying beer than driving the car anyway :p May 21 17:15:35 luke came home with a random driving license yesterday actually May 21 17:15:41 lol May 21 17:15:47 someone bought a laminator....? May 21 17:16:03 heh no a proper one he found it on the street, gonna post it off to the address May 21 17:16:10 GAN800: and I was just getting stuck into the asm May 21 17:16:37 hi May 21 17:16:49 hi sanjay6976 May 21 17:16:51 Any medibox expert here? May 21 17:17:39 i cannot figure out why MediaBox plays everything nicely thru Gstreamer on my Ubuntu-box, but on n810 it is unable to use the output May 21 17:17:57 (in Mer n8x0) May 21 17:18:05 what are you playing? May 21 17:18:10 GStreamer components missing? May 21 17:18:13 mp3 May 21 17:18:16 Meizirkki: did you enable xine output? May 21 17:18:25 ah May 21 17:18:32 Stskeeps, Xine output works somehow too May 21 17:18:35 that's probably ubuntu related, you have to dl a codec from multiverse May 21 17:18:35 afaik May 21 17:18:46 http://www.crn.com/mobile/217600442 < "market that does not exist" !? May 21 17:19:15 Stskeeps, i have all the codecs, but mediabox doesn't recognise the output May 21 17:19:26 only selectable is Xine May 21 17:22:47 after installing maemo 4.1.2 if i run af-sb-init in DIABLO_ARMEL i get the error " /home/maemouser/.osso/current-gtk-key-theme:1: Unable to find include file: "keybindings.rc"" May 21 17:26:37 the problem is that i am not able to lanch emulator gui from ARMEL May 21 17:28:50 any help May 21 17:34:42 sanjay6976: iirc it's not possible to launch the GUI from the ARMEL target May 21 17:35:11 if you want to do GUI programming you must target X86 and try there, or run it on-device May 21 17:36:29 GAN800: I didn't so "or nobody will buy", but when you're targetting the *open source* community with your product, one of the main factors to focus on is keeping things *open source* May 21 17:36:52 and if they're targetting *general purpose* users, they sure did a crappy job of the PIM software May 21 17:37:12 so in the end, they're not really satisfying *either* market May 21 17:37:22 lardman:thanks is there any way i can achive it May 21 17:37:26 which has got to be worse than picking one and satisfying that market May 21 17:40:57 lardman, humm, is this also valid for Diablo ?, I thought it is only a fremantle issue May 21 17:43:55 nahh, the emulated GUI works fine in my armel target (Diablo) May 21 17:45:38 luke-jr, things aint that black and white May 21 17:46:01 and you're not being realistic about the market. May 21 17:47:00 VDVsx: is it maemo 4.1.2? May 21 17:48:15 VDVsx: how did u do that? May 21 17:48:34 sanjay6976, nop, is 4.1, a old installation May 21 17:49:08 sanjay6976, did you installed the entire sdk runtime ? May 21 17:51:07 VDVsx: ah, ok May 21 17:51:35 sanjay6976, try to install the runtime + dev packages (fakeroot apt-get install maemo-sdk-dev) May 21 17:51:41 VDVsx:i did maemo-sdk-dev May 21 17:53:31 luke-jr: i think we're very much aware of our failings May 21 17:53:45 which isn't to say that some people shouldn't be reminded of them May 21 17:53:50 moo all May 21 17:53:53 although in this case, you should complain to Ari May 21 17:54:02 Quim can't really do much May 21 17:54:49 * timeless_mbp ponders May 21 17:55:12 how many software updates did you get to your Original Nintendo Entertainment System ? May 21 17:55:25 for the record, I got May 21 17:55:36 but I was quite happy with it and used it for many years May 21 17:55:46 Original NES had no builtin firmware. May 21 17:55:55 I still used mine two years ago :-( May 21 17:56:07 So this point does not apply to NES. May 21 17:56:16 sanjay6976, can you pastebin the entire output of the af-sb-init command ? May 21 17:56:42 Myrtti: It is time to move on to iNES :) May 21 17:56:59 RST38h: I've moved to NDS May 21 17:57:18 RST38h: i'm drawing a weak parallel May 21 17:57:30 there were components in the nintendo May 21 17:57:40 it was theoretically possible for some of those components to break May 21 17:57:43 Myrtti: not a bad idea May 21 17:57:51 if they broke and you were in warranty, you could get nintendo to replace them May 21 17:58:08 nintendo never promised to give you schematics, and to my knowledge there were no user serviceable parts May 21 17:58:28 How is it related to software? Especially, how is it related to software in NIT firmware that has been broken from the moment it has been shipped to users? May 21 17:58:34 i'm not sure about your 770, as to whether Nokia promised hardware schematics May 21 17:58:51 but... walk slowly May 21 17:58:57 * timeless_mbp has to find other devices May 21 17:59:07 Yea, go search for other examples. May 21 17:59:20 VDVsx:[sbox-DIABLO_ARMEL: ~] > af-sb-init.sh start Note: For remote X connections DISPLAY should contain hostname! Sample files present. Starting DBUS system bus Starting D-BUS session bus daemon Starting Maemo Launcher: maemo-launcher. defender: died my parent is not who he claims to be maemo-launcher: warning rising the oom shield for pid=26027 status=2816 May 21 17:59:21 * timeless_mbp hasn't really purchased many items May 21 17:59:59 (although it will be somewhat of a problem under given preconditions) May 21 18:00:22 timeless_mbp: who is Ari? May 21 18:00:31 Ari Jaaksi I presume May 21 18:00:33 http://jaaksi.blogspot.com/ May 21 18:00:35 (like you may have to use WinCE devices as an example and THAT would look really desperate) May 21 18:00:46 VDVsx:Unable to find include file: "keybindings.rc" it gives May 21 18:00:47 i was hoping someone would spell his name and save me the effort May 21 18:01:00 "it's all his fault" May 21 18:01:11 he's really a nice guy though May 21 18:01:18 (and he's welcome to claim any success he can find) May 21 18:01:28 sanjay6976, yah, paste the output here: http://pastebin.ca/ and send me the link May 21 18:04:03 VDVsx:i have pasted at http://pastebin.ca/1430131 May 21 18:06:17 * timeless_mbp ponders May 21 18:06:23 anyone here happen to have purchased a Newton? May 21 18:06:45 I'd rather not point to my iPod touch (for which i've had to pay for bug fixes and new features) May 21 18:12:41 sanjay6976, try to check this: http://pastebin.ca/1430139 May 21 18:13:51 * timeless_mbp shrugs May 21 18:13:57 it's really not worth explaining May 21 18:14:18 Nintendo has two groups, a hardware group which sells devices May 21 18:14:25 and a software group which makes and sells games May 21 18:14:39 Nokia is a hardware company, it makes and sells hardware May 21 18:14:45 the hardware happens to include software May 21 18:15:00 nokia has virtually no experience in other markets May 21 18:15:15 it'll take years for us to learn how to get some other mix May 21 18:15:48 btw, i finally used the transflexive display of my n810, when i was in Mountain View May 21 18:15:54 and I'm happy to report that it really works! May 21 18:15:58 hehe May 21 18:16:08 meaning? May 21 18:16:10 in other news, my n81 8GB failed that test miserably May 21 18:16:19 i could use my n810 in the sun while i was outside May 21 18:16:56 about a week later i finally discovered my n81's display was dimmed to nearly the lowest possible setting, which explains why i couldn't use it outside, but ... May 21 18:17:18 it took me a week to discover that :) May 21 18:17:29 a week which i spent cursing the phone ;) May 21 18:18:01 luke-jr: for reference, the n800 does not work outside in the sun May 21 18:18:08 (nor did the 770 for that matter) May 21 18:18:39 one of the major improvements the n810 had (and the only one that interested me) was the display technology May 21 18:19:09 but when people asked us about it as the product was announced, all I could say at the time was "it's winter here in helsinki, ask me in a few months when the sun comes out" May 21 18:19:32 on this trip, someone forced me to remove the original plastic film that you're supposed to remove when you get your device May 21 18:19:47 (which i think means the sheet lasted about 2 years) May 21 18:20:04 timeless_mbp: i have a good screenprotector that makes it decently viewable in the sun for n800 :P May 21 18:20:16 timeless_mbp: I always leave that on as a screen protecter May 21 18:20:25 though mine didn't come with one :/ May 21 18:20:36 luke-jr: i always try to, and have been relatively good at keeping them that way May 21 18:20:44 my e61i still had its when the screen died May 21 18:21:01 i took off my n81's when i was trying to figure out why the screen didn't work in the sun :( May 21 18:22:12 * timeless_mbp wonders how to rename a google map May 21 18:22:37 VDVsx:what will be the DISPLAY variable for xephr for armel May 21 18:22:59 sanjay6976: xephyr typically runs on :2 May 21 18:23:17 but when you're running xephyr itself, you typically need DISPLAY set to the normal Xserver (:0) May 21 18:28:08 i am trying to launch maemo emulator from armel i am getting the errori given in the link http://pastebin.ca/1430154 with display=:2 May 21 18:29:30 so, env vars are um... not quite case insensitive May 21 18:29:45 did you run xephyr? May 21 18:29:49 it's basically: May 21 18:29:51 DISPLAY=:0 May 21 18:29:57 start-xephyr.sh May 21 18:30:00 DISPLAY=:2 May 21 18:30:12 start-maemo-however.sh May 21 18:30:22 xephyr of course should be run from outside scratchbox May 21 18:30:26 and maemo would be inside May 21 18:30:59 * timeless_mbp loves the unsupported syscall's May 21 18:37:00 i feel there is some error in xephyr May 21 18:40:30 while launchin xephyr it gives "Extended Input Devices not yet supported. Impelement it at line 625 in kinput.c" May 21 18:44:51 GAN800: you ran Mer on the dell mini 9? May 21 18:45:29 any help May 21 18:51:23 sanjay: Doesn't it tell you directly what to do? May 21 18:51:39 kinput.c, line 625 =) May 21 18:52:24 sanjay6976: ubuntu 9.04? May 21 18:52:52 no fedora May 21 18:53:38 RST38h:what i have to implement May 21 18:53:59 not getting it May 21 18:55:28 sanjay6976, did you followed the instruction that I sent ? May 21 18:55:58 sanjay6976, you have the same error or a different one ? May 21 19:00:16 VDVsx:sorry but i didn't get the instruction please if u can send it again the error is same May 21 19:01:40 sanjay6976, try to check this: http://pastebin.ca/1430139 May 21 19:04:42 anyone know anything about a newer garnet (palmos) vm ? current one has timebomb that expires in 10 days May 21 19:05:42 *cue dramatic 24 clock beeps* May 21 19:06:11 no tank-man didnt know it had a best before date May 21 19:06:41 propietary software, you know May 21 19:08:47 a pity for those who are using agendus or some other palm pim soft May 21 19:08:59 on 10 days we promise... kaos May 21 19:16:57 tried setting that please check the outputin http://pastebin.ca/1430194 May 21 19:52:43 hm. did russia bury a bunch of bodies after chernobyl? May 21 19:56:12 Yes, and they still glow May 21 19:56:56 (aside from the ones that dug themselves out and walked away looking for humans that is) May 21 20:00:58 while running qmake i get the error "mmap: No such device or address" May 21 20:04:28 Yes, worked fine minus the virtual input issues. May 21 20:05:29 Er, Stskeeps. May 21 20:07:24 mm? May 21 20:07:25 ah May 21 20:07:27 thanks May 21 20:09:45 Stskeeps, I'd probably consider switching over at some point. May 21 20:09:59 Although Moblin's new UI efforts look nice. May 21 20:13:01 the japanese are strange May 21 20:13:20 VDVsx:thanks for the help able to launch emulato :) May 21 20:13:56 sanjay6976, good :) May 21 20:15:00 I am getting error now while trying to run qmake it gives me "mmap: No such device or address" May 21 20:16:23 while trying to run qmake of Qt over this May 21 20:16:36 Jaffa: around? May 21 20:19:51 gah May 21 20:19:55 another libtime victim May 21 20:25:20 * Stskeeps is fucking tired of silly nokia-binaries stuff like libtime which is a dbus wrapper. May 21 20:27:49 dude, writing wrappers is the best thing ever. You end up writing many many lines of code, with minimal effort! May 21 20:28:01 Stskeeps: yup (semi-briefly, hopefully) May 21 20:28:51 Stskeeps, go kick some ass. May 21 20:29:08 Mailing list rants are always fun. ;) May 21 20:29:35 Jaffa: did you add extra patches to HAM when that was? May 21 20:29:43 GAN800: i did already May 21 20:29:47 (on bugs.* May 21 20:31:15 Stskeeps: yeah - ones not already in bmo were logged (i.e. the "don't depend on user" one which got resolved recently) May 21 20:31:25 k May 21 20:31:42 i can't upgrade to fremantle beta HAM anyway due to silly libtime-dev May 21 20:32:05 Everything *should* have been carefully committed separately in bzr May 21 20:34:42 ShadowJK: exactly May 21 20:34:49 wrapping wrappers for fun and profit! May 21 20:35:32 The most fun is writing wrappers/frameworks that don't have a use yet May 21 20:35:55 then the next guy who actually finds a use for it comes and goes "wtf", and goes to great lengths to adapt his software to your strangeish framework ;) May 21 20:37:24 ShadowJK: you must have tried to use browser-eal :) May 21 20:37:35 or maemo-location May 21 20:37:41 or any hildon framework May 21 20:37:42 or gnomevfs May 21 20:37:46 * timeless_mbp ponders May 21 20:37:52 or pretty much any software that's been touched here :) May 21 20:38:05 gpsbt or whatever it was called May 21 20:38:24 yeah May 21 20:38:36 frameworks are indeed fun May 21 20:38:47 it's also fun to work w/ people who change the api every day or week May 21 20:39:08 they're learning how to do it now May 21 20:39:22 you need rules for that. You change the API, you also change/send patches for all software using it ;) May 21 20:39:28 while people are using it and writing code which is supposed to be more production stable than the framework being written concurrently :) May 21 20:39:41 ShadowJK: if only it were that simple May 21 20:39:52 :) May 21 20:39:56 first you'd have to find all the consumers and the repos and the builders May 21 20:40:10 and then you'd have to find the version that still builds and get everything pushed in a single lump May 21 20:40:16 * timeless_mbp sighs May 21 20:40:22 working on mozilla was so much easier May 21 20:40:27 everyone lived in one tree May 21 20:40:39 if i changed an api, i posted a patch for all of the consumers, gave them a warning May 21 20:40:40 Linux kernel people have that "you break api you fix users" policy, it also works as an incentive for driver developers to not have their drivers bitrot outside the kernel :) May 21 20:40:44 and then landed for everyone concurrently May 21 20:40:57 s/users/in-tree consumers/ May 21 20:41:09 yep May 21 20:41:30 hey timeless_mbp May 21 20:41:37 hey May 21 20:41:42 i owe you guys a fax May 21 20:41:45 * timeless_mbp wonders how to print May 21 20:41:55 @All: How do I remove Mer? May 21 20:42:03 I need the internal mem card for storage May 21 20:42:20 timeless_mbp, you never told me how it went, you got anything beneficial from the lunch? May 21 20:42:43 cfdisk May 21 20:43:17 * ShadowJK 'd imagine format card thingy in the file browser in maemo might be useful too (but I wouldn't dare use it with external card in slot) May 21 20:43:19 also /etc/bootmenu.d/Mer.item May 21 20:45:40 lbt, got anything more verbose? May 21 20:48:29 not really.... May 21 20:48:39 what do yo want to do? May 21 20:48:44 get rid? May 21 20:49:24 lbt, think I got it, cheers May 21 20:49:44 heh ... I was going to walk you through and update the wiki May 21 20:50:08 http://www.flickr.com/photos/12905355@N05/3551920702/ May 21 21:12:02 crap May 21 21:12:10 less than 24 hours to figure out how to get my stupid N810 to record audio May 21 21:12:12 :/ May 21 21:16:03 why do you only have that much time? May 21 21:16:16 and i thought i saw an app that did that May 21 21:17:34 Infekta: it just records silence x.x May 21 21:18:02 have you tried using the headset with it? May 21 21:20:12 Infekta: no, I don't want to use a headset for input :/ May 21 21:20:17 and I forget where i put it.. May 21 21:21:12 white light black rain sucked May 21 21:30:34 ~seen b-man May 21 21:30:37 b-man is currently on #maemo (32m 32s), last said: 'it's a bit complicated - but i'll figure it out :)'. May 21 21:30:47 32 mins :P May 21 21:32:23 when have an infobot? May 21 21:32:26 w00t May 21 21:32:44 ~seen xfade May 21 21:32:45 i haven't seen 'xfade', jeremiah May 21 21:32:52 Well then you suck inforbot May 21 21:33:36 ~seen X-Fade May 21 21:33:37 x-fade was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 1d 6h 54m 45s ago, saying: 'lizardo: Yeah, but at least covering the obvious ones will help.'. May 21 21:34:19 * lbt polishes his shoe on his trouser leg and whistles nonchalantly... May 21 21:35:49 jeremiah: i'm fairly certain infobot predates you :) May 21 21:36:43 the damn pay insurance company i have .. has a mailbox that only allows 3MB emails May 21 21:36:46 :) wtf? May 21 21:37:09 xD May 21 21:44:43 theh May 21 21:44:47 ? May 21 21:44:57 My fingers cannot spell. May 21 21:45:16 lol May 21 21:45:18 timeless_mbp: Impossible, I was born a long, long time ago. May 21 21:45:37 in a galaxy far, far away.... May 21 21:49:55 night all May 21 21:51:01 how the hell is this woman alive May 21 21:51:12 she was 240 meters from ground 0 in hiroshima May 21 21:51:36 and is like 90 May 21 21:51:49 like.. do some people just not get cancer from atomic bombs or something? May 21 21:52:29 nope May 21 21:52:57 most of what we know is by observation of these people May 21 21:53:15 she demonstrates the statistical nature of radiation damage May 21 21:54:34 i suppose so. i guess being iradiated doesn't always end up causing death May 21 21:55:02 then they all went back to the city May 21 21:56:02 they lived in the radation cities and a lot of them survived May 21 21:57:33 yes May 21 21:58:01 after a certain time the risk is then the particles in the environment May 21 21:58:21 amazing May 21 21:58:32 sorry. i am watching white light black rain May 21 21:58:54 and i always just assumed that anybody who had huge doses of radiation in the cities had died May 21 22:06:04 * lbt worked in nuclear industry many years ago May 21 22:23:30 ~nuke lbt May 21 22:23:31 * infobot prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at lbt ... B☢☢M! May 21 22:23:36 XD May 21 22:23:41 xD May 21 22:23:57 * lbt lives near AWE Aldermaston.... we have defences... May 21 22:24:25 AWE = Atomic Weapons Establishment.... May 21 22:24:35 ~nuke lbt's defences May 21 22:24:36 * infobot prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at lbt's defences ... B☢☢M! May 21 22:24:37 ~destroy defences May 21 22:24:38 no May 21 22:24:39 XD May 21 22:24:42 xD May 21 22:25:19 ~attack lbt's defences May 21 22:25:21 * infobot grabs a pen, screams like she's possessed, and begins chasing lbt's defences May 21 22:25:27 OMFGLOLROFL!!! May 21 22:25:27 xD May 21 22:25:33 that does not make sense xD May 21 22:25:43 i know! XD May 21 22:26:06 ~hack lbt's defences May 21 22:26:07 * infobot teaches lbt's defences nethack so that lbt's defences will play until 6 AM May 21 22:26:15 ? May 21 22:26:16 lol May 21 22:26:19 lol May 21 22:26:40 now lbt's defences are busy playing nethack xD May 21 22:26:45 ~nuke lbt May 21 22:26:46 * infobot prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at lbt ... B☢☢M! May 21 22:26:48 ~burn lbt's defences May 21 22:26:49 xD May 21 22:26:49 * infobot pours gasoline all over lbt's defences, ignites the fire, and then enjoys some toasty marshmallows with the glorious blaze May 21 22:26:53 XD May 21 22:27:15 try to not abuse infobot xD May 21 22:27:23 yeah XD May 21 22:27:51 * lbt retreats to #mer May 21 22:28:01 XD May 21 22:28:15 * lbt leaves killer kitten behind May 21 22:28:15 victory!! XD May 21 22:28:25 nooo!! DX May 21 22:28:42 Nooo May 21 22:28:54 * b-man sends killer kitten to #mer May 21 22:29:00 XD May 21 22:29:04 $cage kitten May 21 22:29:25 * xntbot takes a huge cage and places it over the killer kitten May 21 22:29:30 yay May 21 22:29:39 XD May 21 22:29:42 xD May 21 22:29:59 $xntbot May 21 22:30:02 xntbot, Im bored, are you? May 21 22:30:11 b-man, what? May 21 22:30:27 xnt14, yes I am bored May 21 22:31:16 $xntbot blow up May 21 22:31:54 * xntbot blows up May 21 22:32:01 XD May 21 22:32:03 $cage xnt14 May 21 22:32:05 $fix xntbot May 21 22:32:22 b-man, I am currently broken May 21 22:32:31 xnt14, thankyou, I am fixed May 21 22:32:42 $cage xnt14 May 21 22:32:46 $chase b-man May 21 22:32:51 lol May 21 22:33:07 * xntbot grabs a bat and chases b-man May 21 22:33:09 xD May 21 22:33:16 noooo!!!! May 21 22:33:21 $% remove cage May 21 22:33:35 * b-man gets beaten by xntbot May 21 22:33:57 $stop action(beat,b-man); May 21 22:33:59 xD May 21 22:34:11 XD May 21 22:34:34 $kick b-man shin May 21 22:34:40 * xntbot kicks b-man in the shin May 21 22:34:48 xD May 21 22:35:11 $kick xnt14 $´#* May 21 22:35:22 b-man, invalid syntax May 21 22:35:25 $runover b-man May 21 22:35:38 xnt14, unknown command May 21 22:35:45 oops xD May 21 22:35:49 $kick xnt14 crouch May 21 22:36:11 XD May 21 22:36:21 b-man, sorry, the "kick" command is only availible to my owner May 21 22:36:25 xD May 21 22:36:32 nooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!! May 21 22:37:00 $action(grab,b-man,n800,hand,run); May 21 22:37:20 * xntbot grabs b-man's n800 from hus hand, and runs May 21 22:37:27 * xntbot_ kicks xnt14 in the crouch May 21 22:37:48 $sequence(xntbot_clone,xntbot_) May 21 22:38:02 * xntbot_ kicks xnt14 in the crouch May 21 22:38:16 lol May 21 22:38:27 lol :p May 21 22:38:34 * xntbot dismantles xntbot_ May 21 22:38:44 lol May 21 22:38:44 error: no nick xntbot_ May 21 22:38:49 :p May 21 22:38:51 yeah!!!! May 21 22:38:53 lol May 21 22:39:19 $action(deathnote, write,"Brian Mckenzie"); May 21 22:39:37 * xntbot writes Brian McKenzie in his Deathnote May 21 22:39:44 lol May 21 22:40:52 $action(deathnote, write, "xnt14"); May 21 22:41:14 * b-man dies of a heartattack May 21 22:41:32 xD May 21 22:42:05 b-man, sorry, the action() command is only available to my owner because it allows execution of shell scripts May 21 22:42:19 nooooooooooooo!!!! May 21 22:42:30 $add F0x May 21 22:42:37 infobot: kill xntbot May 21 22:42:39 * infobot shoots a charged pseudoelectron gun at xntbot May 21 22:42:41 registered? May 21 22:42:44 XD May 21 22:42:53 $remove F0x May 21 22:43:23 * FireFox follows hellwolf May 21 22:43:28 lol May 21 22:43:31 $response(attckfrmotrbots,infobot) May 21 22:44:17 *infobot's charged pseudoelectron shot bounces off of xntbots armor May 21 22:44:22 lol May 21 22:44:32 $fry infobot May 21 22:44:52 lol May 21 22:45:07 ~burn infobot May 21 22:45:08 * infobot pours gasoline all over infobot, ignites the fire, and then enjoys some toasty marshmallows with the glorious blaze May 21 22:45:14 re: May 21 22:45:29 ~burn xntbot May 21 22:45:31 * infobot pours gasoline all over xntbot, ignites the fire, and then enjoys some toasty marshmallows with the glorious blaze May 21 22:45:34 * xntbot focuses sunlight via a mirror and burns infobots charred body May 21 22:45:36 :) May 21 22:45:57 $response(infobot,"~burn") May 21 22:46:23 * xntbot 's body is fireproof :) May 21 22:46:49 ~screw up xntbot May 21 22:46:50 * infobot asks up xntbot to bend over May 21 22:47:01 DX May 21 22:47:09 xDxDxD May 21 22:47:29 $crack FireFox May 21 22:47:52 <[Fox]> ha! May 21 22:47:59 * xntbot cracks FireFox with a hammer May 21 22:48:23 <[Fox]> ~attack xntbot May 21 22:48:24 * infobot grabs a pen, screams like she's possessed, and begins chasing xntbot May 21 22:48:42 $alias(b-man,b-man16,b-man626,FireFox,[Fox]) May 21 22:48:51 * xntbot creates the alias May 21 22:48:58 crap! May 21 22:49:04 XD May 21 22:49:59 $alias(id=16,n=b-man@pool-71-124-32-204.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net) May 21 22:50:03 ha May 21 22:50:18 * Fox16 changes his mac adress May 21 22:50:18 now the alias is tied to your hostname May 21 22:50:24 ha!!! May 21 22:50:36 actaually May 21 22:50:39 *actually May 21 22:50:46 thats your ipaddress May 21 22:50:52 0o May 21 22:51:02 * Fox16 changes his ip May 21 22:51:12 * xnt14 checks May 21 22:51:20 lol May 21 22:51:33 still the same xD May 21 22:52:25 * xnt14 can't change his ip unless he calles verizon, and goes through a crappy phone system, and multiple operators xD (they don't even know what a DHCP Reset is) May 21 22:52:36 lol May 21 22:52:43 **calls May 21 22:53:06 $clip b-man,phoneline May 21 22:53:18 * b-man pings xnt14 May 21 22:53:32 * xntbot goes to ohio,b-man's house and clips b-mans dsl line May 21 22:53:37 PONG May 21 22:53:40 *pong xD May 21 22:53:48 lol May 21 22:53:54 lol May 21 22:54:17 wait ping as if in irc ping? or the ping unix command? May 21 22:54:44 try "/ping" ;) May 21 22:54:45 * xnt14 goes down to the garage to check his fios ONT May 21 22:55:15 :P May 21 22:55:59 strangely the fiberoptic activity and the ethernet ectivity light is solid on my ONT May 21 22:56:51 ~ping May 21 22:56:53 ~pong May 21 22:57:01 XD May 21 22:57:12 $(sudo addsource deb http://paparazzi.enac.fr/ubuntu intrepid main) May 21 22:57:43 $(sudo apt-get update ; sudo apt-get install paparazzi-bin) May 21 22:57:50 bot apt-get installs ftw May 21 22:58:05 xnt14, all commands complete May 21 22:58:12 XD May 21 22:58:16 xD May 21 22:58:26 where did you get that bot????? May 21 22:58:30 XD May 21 22:58:59 $killall xntbot May 21 22:59:06 :( May 21 22:59:16 $emotion happy May 21 22:59:17 >:D May 21 22:59:18 :) May 21 22:59:38 :P May 21 22:59:55 @init xntbotv2 May 21 23:00:17 :) May 21 23:00:27 yay May 21 23:00:28 :P May 21 23:00:41 hello xnt14, upgrade complete May 21 23:00:46 XD May 21 23:00:51 $version May 21 23:01:12 xntbot version 2.0 development build May 21 23:01:26 XD May 21 23:01:32 $inof May 21 23:01:34 * May 21 23:01:40 *./ May 21 23:01:45 disregarded May 21 23:01:51 $info May 21 23:02:30 info: xntbot 2.0 running on xs1.xceleo.org as xntbot in hypervisor kvm May 21 23:02:42 kvm ftw May 21 23:03:01 $info verbose=3 May 21 23:03:06 $source May 21 23:03:08 XD May 21 23:03:53 info: xntbot 2.0 running on xs1.xceleo.org as xntbot in hypervisor kvm, connected clients: 10.5.1.4, 10.5.1.21,pool-71-124-32-204.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net May 21 23:04:11 b-man, sourcecode is not currently available May 21 23:04:19 nooooooooooooo May 21 23:04:26 yet May 21 23:04:36 not available yet xD May 21 23:04:42 XD May 21 23:04:46 xd May 21 23:05:07 what's it written in? May 21 23:05:16 $bind(xD,"xD? what does that mean?") May 21 23:05:19 set May 21 23:05:30 $source,lang May 21 23:05:40 $#! b-man May 21 23:05:47 *!! May 21 23:05:49 ah May 21 23:06:03 b-man, I am written in python May 21 23:06:20 xD May 21 23:06:20 xD? what does that mean? May 21 23:06:25 xD May 21 23:06:28 xD? what does that mean? May 21 23:06:33 xD May 21 23:06:33 lol May 21 23:06:36 xD? what does that mean? May 21 23:06:38 lol May 21 23:06:41 lo May 21 23:06:43 *lol May 21 23:07:16 $compile /dv/b-manbot/ May 21 23:07:27 Checking /dv/b-manbot May 21 23:07:31 found makefile May 21 23:07:59 Output: make: *** No targets specified Stop. May 21 23:08:05 XD May 21 23:08:10 xD? what does that mean? May 21 23:08:16 lol May 21 23:08:47 $shell(rm /dv/xntbot/custom_binds/kw/xD); May 21 23:08:47 ~fix xntbotv2 May 21 23:08:49 * infobot opens the hood of xntbotv2 , looks inside and says "that'll be 500 dollars." May 21 23:08:54 xD May 21 23:08:55 xDDDD May 21 23:09:05 $reaction May 21 23:09:11 anyone knows the maintainer for dosbox maemo? May 21 23:09:44 * xntbotv2 slams his hood shut, and smashes infobots cpu and says "that will be 100,000 dollars" May 21 23:09:57 LiraNuna: nope, let me check May 21 23:10:10 http://members.chello.sk/apauer/dosbox4/dosbox4.html May 21 23:10:17 ARM dynarec for x86 May 21 23:10:20 xnt14: lol May 21 23:10:28 $search(google,DosboxMaemo) May 21 23:10:54 oh wow it's old May 21 23:10:59 http://www.google.com/search?q=DosBox+Maemo&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8 May 21 23:11:14 lol May 21 23:11:24 XD May 21 23:11:37 $hit,self,wrench May 21 23:11:50 xntbot needs to replace infobot :) May 21 23:11:50 * xntbotv2 hits himself with a wrench May 21 23:11:56 :) May 21 23:11:56 wtf May 21 23:12:18 * b-man lols out loud May 21 23:12:26 $upgrade, seemless,v3.0i May 21 23:12:34 upgrading May 21 23:12:59 hello xnt14, upgrade complete May 21 23:13:03 :) May 21 23:13:11 * b-man needs to eat dinner - i'll be back ;) May 21 23:13:16 ok May 21 23:13:41 $suspend,todisk,hypervisor=kvm May 21 23:13:48 suspending... May 21 23:14:46 Send "$wakeup" to wakeup May 21 23:14:55 :) May 21 23:15:23 ok now to test out paparazzi http://paparazzi.enac.fr/wiki/Main_Page May 21 23:32:59 * b-man is back May 22 00:06:23 I wish we had some sort of timeframe for implementing Extras QA May 22 00:19:15 Nokia and their goddamn charger notices. May 22 00:19:31 These things make me want to never buy Nokia products again. May 22 01:05:13 Nokia better speed up, apple has a netbook coming soon May 22 01:05:34 damn I hate apple hype so bad May 22 01:08:13 Will the next internet table charge from usb? Would make my life easier. May 22 01:08:56 not much is known about the next tablet May 22 01:09:07 shapr: You can get an adapter for the current ones. May 22 01:10:12 would be nice if Nokia started some sort of survey about the next device May 22 01:10:49 though it's nice to be able to browse the sources and get an impression about what is speculative May 22 01:13:40 generally hardware features in maemo devices are similar to other average nokia products as we share purchasing May 22 01:13:45 LiraNuna: Next tablet uses an OMAP3430, will probably have an FM transmitter, I forget the rest. May 22 01:14:01 shapr, I know, 3G was also 'announced' May 22 01:14:14 as well as a memory slot and opengl es 2.0 May 22 01:14:42 Yup May 22 01:15:04 but not much details are known May 22 01:15:31 I saw a post on maemo forums about the keyboard layout May 22 01:16:22 http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=268726&postcount=7 May 22 01:20:53 shapr, yes, USB. May 22 01:20:57 MicroUSB May 22 01:21:15 ~rx51 May 22 01:21:29 ~rx-51 May 22 01:21:30 hmm... rx-51 is http://maemo.org/community/council/community_highlights_for_december_2008-part_i-january_2009-part_ii/ http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS9093153240.html May 22 01:21:37 Basically everything we know. May 22 01:22:01 Although some stuff I left out (since it seemed obvious to me) and some stuff we've found out since (like the USB transceiver part ;)). May 22 01:27:16 I hope it'll be an N810 lookalike, I really like the way it looks and fells May 22 01:27:18 feels* May 22 01:53:10 Hello May 22 01:55:26 LiraNuna: aww, you mean you don't want the hardware designers to have a job? May 22 01:55:38 timeless, haha May 22 01:55:52 timeless_mbp, well, I meant no radical changes ;D May 22 01:56:18 ok, no Elephant shaped tablets May 22 01:56:23 i guess we can live with that May 22 01:56:31 agreed May 22 01:56:41 tigers ok? :) May 22 01:57:03 sorry, i'm in a strange mood, starving again May 22 01:58:33 nothing's wrong with a little humor :) May 22 02:08:57 timeless_mbp, refrigerators are wonderful pieces of tech. May 22 02:09:14 oh, i probably have some food at home May 22 02:09:18 but it's damp outside May 22 02:09:34 What, you a witch? :P May 22 02:10:06 It's been raining so much here our pool overflowed May 22 02:19:08 you have a pool May 22 02:19:13 What, are you rich? :P May 22 02:19:21 He lives in Florida. May 22 02:19:27 Everyone has a pool. May 22 02:19:36 I don't think they make houses without them. May 22 02:23:44 they're sending bio-robots to the roof of chernobyl in order to clear the radioactive graphite from it :) May 22 02:25:18 don't space suits protect against radioactivity? May 22 02:28:06 timeless_mbp, well, my parents do and I'm home for the summer. ;) May 22 02:28:29 aww May 22 02:28:40 wait May 22 02:28:45 there was a movie like that recently May 22 02:28:47 * timeless_mbp ponders May 22 02:28:50 But, yes, Florida. May 22 02:28:51 Bad Boys 2? May 22 02:29:02 the one where the pool kept flooding :) May 22 02:31:21 btw, how the heck do people read blogspots w/ archives that seem to be hundreds of screens long? May 22 02:31:44 e.g. robalini.blogspot.com/2008_02_01_archive.html May 22 02:36:52 the mascot topic at itt should be bash.org-ed May 22 02:39:24 ghostbusters 3?? May 22 02:40:16 ??? May 22 02:41:27 heh May 22 02:41:36 Slashdot just slashvertised the n810 May 22 02:43:36 Be nice if Nokia could work out some sort of Ovi store deal with Amazon for ebooks. May 22 02:44:44 GeneralAntilles, I don't think they're giving away Kindle monopoly for any reasonable amounts of money (or a lot more than reasonable, I suppose) May 22 02:45:04 Bobbe, sure, but one can wish. ;) May 22 02:45:21 Bobbe: amazon released a reader for the ipod May 22 02:45:39 GeneralAntilles, sure thing May 22 02:46:36 timeless_mbp, yeah, but the MO is completely different May 22 02:46:58 http://entertainment.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1240741&cid=28039727 May 22 02:47:24 ew May 22 02:47:47 they were showing deformed chernobyl babies May 22 02:48:20 Any way to get the 5800 browser to download an image? May 22 02:49:59 no idea May 22 02:50:04 what happens when you click and hold? May 22 02:50:15 Absolutely nothing. May 22 02:50:20 lol May 22 02:50:31 Tap'n'hold works in a disappointingly limited number of places. May 22 02:51:59 what other browsers do you have for the N800? does opera mini work fine in it? May 22 02:52:05 *5800 May 22 02:52:10 Dunno May 22 02:52:13 Didn't bother to try. May 22 02:52:23 Browsing is way inferior to my N800. May 22 02:52:38 S60 May 22 02:53:05 is it faster to load pages? May 22 02:54:28 GeneralAntilles, do u use the boxwave screen protector? May 22 02:55:01 Bobbe, yes. May 22 02:55:10 Bobbe, faster to load, easier to use. May 22 02:55:18 Much more functional. May 22 02:55:35 you mean the N800 is May 22 02:55:36 The S60 5th's browser interface is the dumbest shit I've ever seen. May 22 02:55:40 Yes May 22 02:56:05 in the s60 3rd browser you could press 1 to bring an on-screen menu May 22 02:56:19 now try and find 1 in the browser May 22 02:56:45 GeneralAntilles: did you try skyfire? May 22 02:56:59 Bobbe: heh May 22 02:59:26 Invisible shield 50% off May 22 02:59:33 * Bobbe bought his boxwave already, but tempted **** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri May 22 02:59:57 2009