**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Jun 05 02:59:57 2009
Jun 05 03:40:13 <Macer> ugh.. 3 more minutes
Jun 05 03:40:28 <Macer> and this zero-bit format that this osx install is doing to hte 1TB drive will be done
Jun 05 03:40:42 <Macer> this crap is killing me :) and i bet it doesn't even work
Jun 05 03:41:32 <ShadowJK> zeri-bit format?
Jun 05 03:41:36 <ShadowJK> zero-bit format?
Jun 05 03:41:41 <Macer> yah.
Jun 05 03:41:48 <Macer> trying to install osx on my shuttle k45
Jun 05 03:42:00 <Macer> with boot 132 and the retail osx dvd
Jun 05 03:42:16 <Macer> the specs are almost the same as a mac mini
Jun 05 03:42:29 <Macer> but for some reason it can partition the drive but couldn't format it
Jun 05 03:42:53 <Macer> i figured maybe win7 had something in an awkward place that was preventing the osx install from formatting it .. i'm sure "zero-bit format" is just a dd wipe of it
Jun 05 03:43:48 <Macer> it's supposed to be some mac crap where it wipes the entire hard drive for security purposes so nothing can be recovered off it .. i guess if you worked at the pentagon and needed to wipe it 24 times to make sure.. the osx install gives you that option :)
Jun 05 03:45:26 <Macer> hm.
Jun 05 03:45:41 <Macer> ugh what a waste of time that was
Jun 05 03:47:10 <Macer> ok.. this is starting to get on my nerves
Jun 05 03:47:54 <Macer> i think it just isn't reading this damn 1TB drive correctly
Jun 05 03:50:55 <Macer> one last thing and then i try one last thing
Jun 05 04:16:25 <Mousey> ye godz
Jun 05 04:16:41 <Mousey> the 900 has a SMALLER screen? =/
Jun 05 04:21:19 <chx> so we hear
Jun 05 04:21:26 <chx> i cant find anything official
Jun 05 04:26:16 <Mousey> http://mynokiablog.com/2009/05/25/new-nokia-n900-nokias-next-internet-tablet-wipes-the-floor-with-the-nokia-n97/
Jun 05 04:26:42 <Mousey> why he's comparing it with the n97 escapes me, but whatever. there's a pic
Jun 05 04:27:33 <GAN800> mockup by a 3rd party.
Jun 05 04:29:02 <jonrafkind> hi, I just got a nokia770. can anyone tell me what device the d-pad is attached to? there is no /dev/jsX and /dev/input/* don't seem like the right devices
Jun 05 04:31:20 <Mousey> GAN800, "croll down tho
Jun 05 04:31:29 <Mousey> scroll, even
Jun 05 04:31:54 <GAN800> Mousey, there is no 'pic'
Jun 05 04:32:06 <cmug> http://mynokiablog.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/lowres_nokrover.jpg?w=257&h=222
Jun 05 04:32:43 <Mousey> huh? i can see it tho, p-ain as day, part of his "update"
Jun 05 04:32:52 <Mousey> plain, even
Jun 05 04:33:05 <GAN800> Mousey, what OS does it look like that 'pic' is running?
Jun 05 04:33:17 <GAN800> No, you just think you do.
Jun 05 04:33:57 <Mousey> looks like maemo to me. i don't recognize the theme, or the buttons on the left
Jun 05 04:33:59 <GAN800> What you really see is a mockup that appears to be running a mashup of OS2007 and OS2008.
Jun 05 04:34:15 <GAN800> A mockup is not a 'pic'
Jun 05 04:34:21 <Mousey> awfully good mockup
Jun 05 04:34:27 <Mousey> but ok
Jun 05 04:34:45 <GAN800> and that pressentation is from the Summit
Jun 05 04:34:59 <GAN800> where the image was most certainly not pressent.
Jun 05 04:35:11 <GAN800> s/ss/s/g
Jun 05 04:35:12 <infobot> GAN800 meant: where the image was most certainly not present.
Jun 05 04:35:35 <Mousey> k. thats fine by me. i'm not sold on that anyway
Jun 05 04:36:59 <Mousey> gsm radio, smaller screen, think i'll stock up on 810s now that they'll be cheaper
Jun 05 04:53:37 <chx> Mousey: thats how i got mine
Jun 05 04:54:20 <chx> Mousey: i was eyeing the Maemo devices since the 770 but the state of my wallet and the price of the desired device never met until a week or so ago when buy.com was sellling the N810 for 199.
Jun 05 04:57:59 <mord> whatever happened to maemobox.org?
Jun 05 09:03:39 <RST38h> Prototype NTT DoCoMo phone turns into a flute and takes your blood
Jun 05 09:05:52 <qwerty12> Japanese phones are awesome. Only if they didn't use goddamn CDMA.
Jun 05 09:17:14 <FatBoy> This question is for maemo-mapper. I've searched the forums endlessly, and googled this. Does anybody know where I can download a map tile pack for entire states at a time?
Jun 05 09:17:35 <FatBoy> I found one website, but I have no clue how to import it into maemomapper
Jun 05 09:18:12 <X-Fade> FatBoy: You can specify an area to download in maemo-mapper.
Jun 05 09:18:47 <X-Fade> But beware that if you use a low level and select the whole US, this will be a lot of gigabytes :)
Jun 05 09:19:40 <FatBoy> See I've tried doing that. Whenever I do that in maemo-mapper, that doesn't work. I have to enable auto-download.
Jun 05 09:20:04 <FatBoy> And then, to get the whole state, since my state isn't perfectly square, I have to select a region larger than my state, and I prefer a zoom level of 6, and that puts it at over 2gb
Jun 05 09:23:51 <RST38h> qwerty: Gaijins report that the phones are actually so buggy that they are pretty much unusuable
Jun 05 09:24:18 <RST38h> qwerty: i.e. most of these new features are basically half-working gimmicks
Jun 05 09:24:43 <qwerty12> :(
Jun 05 09:25:15 <minra-> lol #topic
Jun 05 09:25:55 <minra-> what a POS Netgear is.
Jun 05 09:26:45 <minra-> so has the community gotten over their tantrum at the leaked designs? :)
Jun 05 09:26:46 <qwerty12> Oh, I found that out after I found out that SSH needs patching on the N800 so that it can actually work if using a Netgear router.
Jun 05 09:26:53 <minra-> haha
Jun 05 09:28:14 <minra-> how you doing old man, qwerty12
Jun 05 09:28:52 <qwerty12> lol, I'm good, thanks, how about you?
Jun 05 09:29:14 <minra-> still floored by my herniated disc
Jun 05 09:29:27 <minra-> n810 is a godsend for that
Jun 05 09:30:16 <minra-> you interested in building any fun&games stuff qwerty12 ?
Jun 05 09:31:44 <qwerty12> Sorry, I've been assigned the task of making NetworkManager in Mer use HildonBanner instead of libnotify stuff and I've already started the process :/
Jun 05 09:32:01 <florian> good morning
Jun 05 09:32:11 <qwerty12> morning florian
Jun 05 09:32:21 <aquatix> qwerty12: ah, good stuff
Jun 05 09:32:59 <aquatix> btw, isn't it an idea to write some converter that acts like libnotify, but uses HildonBanner
Jun 05 09:33:17 <aquatix> saves you on porting :)
Jun 05 09:35:46 <qwerty12> Dunno how that'd work, myself, you'd probably have to change libnotify directly but I dunno what I'm talking about. :)
Jun 05 09:36:19 <X-Fade> Ok, finally clutter-gtk and clutter-cairo managed to build on the autobuilder.
Jun 05 09:36:30 <stskeeps_> dear god, canola ui on smartq7 :P
Jun 05 09:36:42 <X-Fade> So now one can create clutter apps for fremantle :)
Jun 05 09:36:49 <Macer> well
Jun 05 09:36:52 <stskeeps_> yes, but can you actually use it? :P
Jun 05 09:36:58 <Macer> i gave up on osx on this shuttle k45
Jun 05 09:37:07 <X-Fade> stskeeps_: Yes, i386 versions now also work.
Jun 05 09:37:08 <Macer> what a total pain it is to get set up on non apple hardware
Jun 05 09:37:20 <Macer> i vouched for opensolaris 2009.6
Jun 05 09:37:30 <X-Fade> stskeeps_: using mesa instead of the imagination versions.
Jun 05 09:37:30 <stskeeps_> X-Fade: ah, i meant in terms of HD taking the compositor :)
Jun 05 09:37:37 * Macer is going to shed himself of the linux disgust :)
Jun 05 09:37:55 <X-Fade> stskeeps_: Ah, well that will be solved. I'm sure of that.
Jun 05 09:42:14 <stskeeps_> X-Fade: hehe, i hope so :)
Jun 05 10:02:49 <rmt> Woo, had about 3 downloads of my image viewing programs. :-
Jun 05 10:02:50 <rmt> :-)
Jun 05 10:02:52 <rmt> Success!
Jun 05 10:03:16 <amr> ooh, whats it called?
Jun 05 10:05:00 <stskeeps_> rmt: screenshot?
Jun 05 10:05:08 <rmt> Both work well, but I think that zipview is a good replacement for comics, especially combined with a zenity prompt.  I'm using it for all the Garfield comics.  One year per zip.
Jun 05 10:05:13 <rmt> pview & zipview
Jun 05 10:05:30 <rmt> stskeeps_, Full screen image app .. not much point. :)
Jun 05 10:05:45 <rmt> Each corner and side does something, with top left quitting.
Jun 05 10:06:06 <stskeeps_> rmt: ah. :P
Jun 05 10:06:58 <rmt> I should probably introduce automatic rotation into them also.. I preprocess images before putting them on, but others may not.
Jun 05 10:10:42 <amr> http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/digiaatscene/
Jun 05 10:10:44 <amr> this looks pretty damn cool
Jun 05 11:21:35 <FatBoy> I have a .osm file I found online, it's maps for my whole state. How would I make that usable for maemo mapper? I've googled it a bit, and found some sort of library to export it to sqlite
Jun 05 11:29:56 <FatBoy> I have a .osm file I found online, it's maps for my whole state. How would I make that usable for maemo mapper? I've googled it a bit, and found some sort of library to export it to sqlite
Jun 05 12:05:49 * Meiz_n810 enjoys the silence of this channel...
Jun 05 12:11:22 <KayDeeEeJon> hi
Jun 05 12:12:11 * aquatix drops a vase
Jun 05 12:12:47 <KayDeeEeJon> i got usb networking to work between my pc (gateway) and my n810. web browsing works, but at every page i browse, the connection manager pops up and wants to let me choose a wlan connection (among the closed wlans nearby)
Jun 05 12:13:04 <Stskeeps> grab a dummy icd plugin
Jun 05 12:13:23 <qwerty12_N810> install the icd dummy plugin and make a new dummy connection
Jun 05 12:13:23 <Stskeeps> (i think)
Jun 05 12:13:55 <KayDeeEeJon> i thought that the dummy icd was no longer needed (at least i was told something like that yesterday evening here)
Jun 05 12:14:07 <KayDeeEeJon> ok thx i'll try it then
Jun 05 12:14:16 <qwerty12_N810> that person lied :)
Jun 05 12:14:29 <KayDeeEeJon> hehe, or maybe i just misunderstood
Jun 05 12:14:35 <lcuk> yes i saw the person say you didnt need it
Jun 05 12:15:07 <qwerty12_N810> it's needed in diablo otherwise dummy connections aren't recognised
Jun 05 12:18:57 <lcuk> * yigal (n=yigal@pool-71-118-45-152.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net) has joined #maemo
Jun 05 12:18:57 <lcuk> <parigaudi> when i try to install libicd-network-dummy_0.12_armel.deb from maemo repository (diablo),
Jun 05 12:18:57 <lcuk> <parigaudi> my n810 tells me: "incompatible application package"
Jun 05 12:18:57 <lcuk> * anibal (n=anibal@debian/developer/anibal) has joined #maemo
Jun 05 12:18:57 <lcuk> <GAN800> dummy is no longer required.
Jun 05 12:19:36 * lcuk found it,  xchat over vnc is painful
Jun 05 12:23:07 <lcuk> jeremiah_N810, hi \o since returning (and fixing a data corruption prob..) i have been learning more about the packaging modificaitons you and kees did over the weekend
Jun 05 12:23:58 <lcuk> ive cleaned out the code and understand more now where everything sits (I spent much time learning about autotools - i built from scratch on the device!)
Jun 05 12:25:59 <lcuk> the question i have however is dpkg returns 2 .deb packages, libliqbase1_0.2-dev-1_armel.deb and libliqbase-dev_0.2-dev-1_armel.deb
Jun 05 12:26:46 <lcuk> i think both have the same contents, where do i look to tell each of the 2 packages what contents they should have
Jun 05 12:26:52 <lcuk> is it something specific for the makefile
Jun 05 12:28:39 <KayDeeEeJon> thx lcuk.
Jun 05 12:29:19 <KayDeeEeJon> but then the question about the  "incompatible application package" is relevant again : what do i do about that?
Jun 05 12:29:48 <KayDeeEeJon> i mean, if i can't install  libicd-network-dummy_0.12_armel.deb, what do i do to get the dummy connection?
Jun 05 12:51:22 <lbt> fiferboy: hi... no luck with Qt... I was running mixed releases
Jun 05 12:51:40 <lbt> rebuilding it all at the moment
Jun 05 12:51:59 <fiferboy> lbt: Hi.  Are you building from SVN now?
Jun 05 12:52:13 <lbt> from OBS with local patches
Jun 05 12:52:28 <fiferboy> Is it 4.5.0?
Jun 05 12:52:49 <lbt> qt4-x11_4.5.0-1maemo1mer2
Jun 05 12:53:24 <fiferboy> Close enough.  I use 4.5.0-1maemo2, I think
Jun 05 12:57:52 <KayDeeEeJon> ok the package does install now. dunno what's different from yesterday
Jun 05 13:12:51 <KayDeeEeJon> despite installing libicd-network-dummy_0.12_armel.deb and executing the lines suggested by the package, i still don't see any dummy connection for choice in the connection manager
Jun 05 13:12:59 <KayDeeEeJon> anything i did wrong here?
Jun 05 14:08:52 <dneary> Hi
Jun 05 14:09:13 <dneary> I just installed the latest beta, and I've been trying to get it working with Xephyr
Jun 05 14:09:24 <dneary> Anyone about who can help me debug?
Jun 05 14:09:51 <dneary> The Xephyr window is black only
Jun 05 14:10:23 <luke-jr> not sure anyone actually develops with Maemo anymore
Jun 05 14:10:23 <dneary> I run af_sb_init.sh with DISPLAY=:1
Jun 05 14:10:30 <luke-jr> other than maybe Nokia themselves
Jun 05 14:10:54 <dneary> I get this:
Jun 05 14:10:56 <dneary> [sbox-FREMANTLE_X86: ~] > af-sb-init.sh start
Jun 05 14:10:57 <dneary> AF Warning: '/etc/osso-af-init/matchbox.defs' not found
Jun 05 14:10:57 <dneary> Note: For remote X connections DISPLAY should contain hostname!
Jun 05 14:10:57 <dneary> Sample files present.
Jun 05 14:10:57 <dneary> DBUS system bus is already running, doing nothing
Jun 05 14:10:57 <dneary> D-BUS session bus daemon is already running, doing nothing
Jun 05 14:10:59 <dneary> Starting Sapwood image server
Jun 05 14:11:01 <dneary> sapwood-server[30404]: GLIB WARNING ** Gdk - cannot open display:
Jun 05 14:11:05 <lcuk> luke-jr, dont underestimate
Jun 05 14:11:05 <dneary> Starting Keyboard
Jun 05 14:11:07 <dneary> /usr/bin/af-sb-init.sh: line 92: /usr/bin/hildon-input-method: No such file or directory
Jun 05 14:11:18 <lcuk> dneary, try DISPLAY:=2
Jun 05 14:11:19 <luke-jr> lcuk: you do?
Jun 05 14:11:23 <dneary> Doesn't look promising :(
Jun 05 14:11:27 <dneary> Thanks lcuk
Jun 05 14:11:29 <lcuk> yeah liqbase doesnt run on mer
Jun 05 14:11:33 <luke-jr> ö
Jun 05 14:11:38 <dneary> luke-jr: lcuk is the developer of liqbase
Jun 05 14:11:39 <lcuk> i think thats what i had before
Jun 05 14:11:46 <luke-jr> dneary: I'm well aware.
Jun 05 14:11:57 <luke-jr> lcuk: but I mean, you develop in Maemo's SDK thing?
Jun 05 14:12:01 <lcuk> and liqbase should be runnable on all OSes for 8x0 :)
Jun 05 14:12:02 <dneary> luke-jr: Given your cynicism I wasn't sure
Jun 05 14:12:12 <lcuk> lots of folks are happy with diablo and even chinook
Jun 05 14:12:12 <dneary> luke-jr: How else would one develop?
Jun 05 14:12:26 <luke-jr> dneary: Mer's development tools?
Jun 05 14:12:31 <lcuk> luke-jr, i do at the moment for building package but all my source building and testing is on device itself
Jun 05 14:12:40 <luke-jr> dneary: I just build native.
Jun 05 14:12:42 <lcuk> luke-jr, mer does not target fremantle
Jun 05 14:12:46 <dneary> [sbox-FREMANTLE_X86: ~] > export DISPLAY=:2
Jun 05 14:12:46 <dneary> [sbox-FREMANTLE_X86: ~] > af-sb-init.sh start
Jun 05 14:12:46 <dneary> AF Warning: '/etc/osso-af-init/matchbox.defs' not found
Jun 05 14:12:46 <dneary> Note: For remote X connections DISPLAY should contain hostname!
Jun 05 14:12:46 <dneary> Sample files present.
Jun 05 14:12:47 <Stskeeps> dneary: there's a fix for Xephyr afaik
Jun 05 14:12:47 <dneary> DBUS system bus is already running, doing nothing
Jun 05 14:12:49 <dneary> D-BUS session bus daemon is already running, doing nothing
Jun 05 14:12:51 <dneary> Starting Sapwood image server
Jun 05 14:12:53 <dneary> sapwood-server[30537]: GLIB INFO default - server started
Jun 05 14:12:55 <dneary> Starting Keyboard
Jun 05 14:12:57 <dneary> /usr/bin/af-sb-init.sh: line 92: /usr/bin/hildon-input-method: No such file or directory
Jun 05 14:13:02 <woglinde> args
Jun 05 14:13:04 <dneary> Stskeeps: I heard that Xephyr crashed with fremantle
Jun 05 14:13:04 <woglinde> pastebin
Jun 05 14:13:13 <Stskeeps> dneary: yeah, hence a fix is needed :P
Jun 05 14:13:20 <dneary> didn't know it didn't work at all
Jun 05 14:13:30 <dneary> woglinde: pastebin?
Jun 05 14:13:55 <woglinde> ~pastebin
Jun 05 14:13:56 <infobot> [~pastebin] A "pastebin" is a web-based service where you can paste anything over 3 lines without flooding the channel. Here are links to a few : http://www.pastebin.com , http://pastebin.ca , http://channels.debian.net/paste , http://paste.lisp.org , http://www.rafb.net/paste
Jun 05 14:14:41 <lcuk> dneary, couldnt you get onto a batphone and try internal debugging?
Jun 05 14:18:45 <dneary> lcuk: batphone?
Jun 05 14:18:53 <dneary> Do I look like commissioner gordon?
Jun 05 14:19:22 <lcuk> well, now you mention it...   its either that or we start calling you robin :p
Jun 05 14:19:31 <woglinde> lol
Jun 05 14:19:33 <dneary> I have no batphone
Jun 05 14:19:41 <dneary> No more than you (maybe less so)
Jun 05 14:20:16 <dneary> So - how do you know if Xephyr's working right? :)
Jun 05 14:20:23 <GAN800> Lies!
Jun 05 14:20:35 <GAN800> dneary has a Rover. I'm sure of it.
Jun 05 14:20:53 <dneary> I'm guessing that "/usr/bin/hildon-input-method" being missing is bad, right?
Jun 05 14:21:09 <dneary> GAN800: I do have a Beagle Board tyhat I bought myself
Jun 05 14:21:19 <dneary> Not sure what I'm going to do with it though
Jun 05 14:21:23 <Stskeeps> dneary: not really, it isn't needed for the desktop to run
Jun 05 14:21:26 <GAN800> carputer
Jun 05 14:21:58 <dneary> GAn800: There's a GPS in there?
Jun 05 14:24:26 <GAN800> dneary, nah, but Bluetooth ones are cheap and so much better than the built-in N810 one.
Jun 05 14:24:37 <lcuk> heh dneary, you gotta have more than me :P
Jun 05 14:25:12 <dneary> lcuk: Not certain - I don't know a huge number of Maemo developers in Nokia
Jun 05 14:25:26 <dneary> GAN800: Do you recommend a good bluetooth GPS?
Jun 05 14:26:06 <GAN800> Anything MTK based. i-Blue 737, 747, or 757 are my favorites (plain, logging, and solar).
Jun 05 14:26:08 <lcuk> theres a need to sit down with them at the island retreat and eat bacon and drink beer
Jun 05 14:30:48 <KayDeeEeJon> you can buy a matching island at vladi.de
Jun 05 14:31:28 <KayDeeEeJon> for a couple million bucks
Jun 05 14:34:11 <andre__> KayDeeEeJon, but who cares?
Jun 05 14:35:28 <GAN800> 'morning, sjgadsby. :)
Jun 05 14:35:48 <Stskeeps> when was that council meeting again? :P
Jun 05 14:36:13 <KayDeeEeJon> andre: lcuk wrote about sitting down at the island retreat, and i found that site with its million bucks prices just funny.
Jun 05 14:36:17 <sjgadsby> Good morning, GAN800.
Jun 05 14:36:47 <andre__> KayDeeEeJon, ah. okay, missed the background :)
Jun 05 14:38:21 <Stskeeps> idea for battery meter.. battery capacity on left, right side has a line which shows tendancy of how much battery is being used, so thus more steep it is, the more battery it uses
Jun 05 14:39:00 <Stskeeps> so you can see when you're really burning battery
Jun 05 14:49:23 <GAN800> Stskeeps, monday at 1330
Jun 05 14:49:56 <GAN800> Stskeeps, what about colors? Or transparency?
Jun 05 14:50:03 <Stskeeps> or that
Jun 05 14:50:18 <Stskeeps> some kind of visual indicator of how fast you're burning battery would definately be good
Jun 05 14:51:27 <sjgadsby> I like the idea, Stskeeps, though I'm reminded of the old saying, "Nothing hurts performance like a performance monitor."
Jun 05 14:51:49 <Stskeeps> true
Jun 05 14:52:03 <Pustelnik> +∞ cokolwiek
Jun 05 14:52:07 <lcuk> a performance monitor that actively pushes its display every 1ms isnt good
Jun 05 14:52:23 <lcuk> but have a nice flashy one that is just a part of the envionment and its ok
Jun 05 14:53:30 <Stskeeps> i wouldn't mind a per-process one
Jun 05 14:53:50 <lcuk> is the info available?
Jun 05 14:58:31 <dneary> lcuk: Figured it out
Jun 05 14:58:41 <dneary> Apparently I don't have nokia-binaries installed
Jun 05 14:59:09 <dneary> I thought it was installed if I installed "Runtime + all dev packages"
Jun 05 14:59:18 <GAN800> Stskeeps, what metrics would it use?
Jun 05 14:59:40 <Stskeeps> GAN800: dunno, "how much this app will eat of your battery per hour?" :P
Jun 05 15:00:56 <dneary> Stskeeps: It could be like the CPU temperature monitor
Jun 05 15:01:04 <dneary> Would be cool
Jun 05 15:01:39 <dneary> A more accurate "time left on battery at current consumption" would be nice
Jun 05 15:02:11 <Stskeeps> i would really just like a indication i'm using the tablet in a manner that will empty my battery quickly
Jun 05 15:02:40 <Macer> opensolaris is kind of a bitch to use as a desktop still
Jun 05 15:02:55 <Stskeeps> i wouldn't use it as a desktop, personally
Jun 05 15:03:05 <Macer> i am right now
Jun 05 15:03:16 <Macer> i've ironed out most of the bugs minus the inability to print on my networked printer
Jun 05 15:04:00 <Macer> i thought it was odd they use gnome and their media player defaults its codec downloads from a commercial site charging for like... xvid decoders and other dumb shit like that
Jun 05 15:04:34 <Macer> totem opens some codec downloading extorting page where they try to charge you for codecs you can get for free legally
Jun 05 15:04:47 <Macer> like an mp4 codec :-\ i don't get it
Jun 05 15:05:19 <Stskeeps> there's licensing fees on things you know
Jun 05 15:05:34 <Macer> is there?
Jun 05 15:05:59 <Stskeeps> yeah
Jun 05 15:06:05 <Stskeeps> especially in countries with software patents :
Jun 05 15:06:06 <Stskeeps> P
Jun 05 15:06:30 <Stskeeps> we actually have a funky problem with mer about that, - we can't legally support mp3 oob
Jun 05 15:06:51 <Macer> that doesn't make sense. using linux you can get codecs to play these things fairly easily
Jun 05 15:07:13 <Macer> why isn't mplayer being stalked? :)
Jun 05 15:07:14 <sjgadsby> Easy != legal
Jun 05 15:07:27 <Macer> xine is another one
Jun 05 15:07:48 <Robot101> Stskeeps: why not ask fluendo for a redistribution license for their licensed mp3 plugin?
Jun 05 15:07:54 <Macer> i doubt anybody would sit down if they are losing out on so much over a patent
Jun 05 15:07:56 <Robot101> Stskeeps: they give it away free
Jun 05 15:08:35 <Macer> is there a lic fee for xvid? :)
Jun 05 15:08:41 <Macer> isn't that supposed to be the open one?
Jun 05 15:10:35 <Stskeeps> Robot101: hmm, maybe
Jun 05 15:12:47 <Robot101> Stskeeps: it wouldn't be on the DSP, but it'd give you something with MP3 out of the box at least
Jun 05 15:13:40 <Stskeeps> well, my view would be on all platforms i guess
Jun 05 15:14:09 <lcuk> giving something away for free money wise might still have strings
Jun 05 15:14:48 <lcuk> dneary - doh!
Jun 05 15:15:10 <dneary> And now, I've tried installing the whole shebang, and it doesn't do it :(
Jun 05 15:15:12 <lcuk> there was someone talking to kotczarny this morning about battery stuffs
Jun 05 15:15:27 <dneary> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
Jun 05 15:15:27 <dneary>   maemo-sdk-debug: Depends: maemo-sdk-dev (= 5.0) but it is not going to be installed
Jun 05 15:15:27 <dneary>                    Depends: hildon-application-framework-debug but it is not going to be installed
Jun 05 15:15:33 <lcuk> ive spent best part of 3 days trying to get a single package out of mine
Jun 05 15:15:41 <lcuk> ive had fist fights with gnu
Jun 05 15:21:24 <fiferboy> qwerty12: Thanks for the patch
Jun 05 15:22:59 <qwerty12> oh, hi fiferboy, no problem, I needed it after having timezone & NTPD problems (LSBC worked awesomely for being able to see when the time had been set wrong) :)
Jun 05 15:23:28 <fiferboy> So you're a C coder now?
Jun 05 15:23:48 <qwerty12> Oh, certainly not. I've just picked up tricks :)
Jun 05 15:27:20 <piotre> Hello, i want to encode from mic to mp3 using gstreamer and lame. but i dont get the gstreamer-plugins-ugly package. Any suggestions?
Jun 05 15:38:18 <Stskeeps> andre__: \o/ on 4560
Jun 05 15:39:28 <andre__> Stskeeps, the second part is in progress too, but is a bit more complicated
Jun 05 15:40:19 <Stskeeps> yeah
Jun 05 15:40:27 <Stskeeps> at least i'm happy to see they got the point
Jun 05 15:41:04 <Stskeeps> we discussed it a bit at the hw meeting so
Jun 05 15:41:18 <andre__> well, your initial report was just great and exactly explaining the issues plus the advantages for nokia
Jun 05 15:41:29 <andre__> so it's your fault that they got the point ;-))
Jun 05 15:41:44 <luke-jr> what point?
Jun 05 15:42:13 <andre__> https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4560
Jun 05 15:42:55 <GAN800> dneary, the problem with the 'remaining' number is that most people don't really know how to use it.
Jun 05 15:43:14 <dneary> GAN800: Agreed.
Jun 05 15:43:33 <luke-jr> "understandably closed source" is an oxymoron
Jun 05 15:43:40 <GAN800> A 'you're using a lot of power' indicator forces them to think about what it means.
Jun 05 15:43:51 <dneary> But "less than one hour" doesn't tell me if it's 30 minutes (so I can finish the email I'm writing) or 3 minutes (so I'll save my work & finish later)
Jun 05 15:43:59 <andre__> luke-jr, no
Jun 05 15:44:26 <GAN800> dneary, yeah, that's stupid. A percentage is more useful.
Jun 05 15:44:51 <GAN800> andre__, trollin', trollin', trollin'. ;)
Jun 05 15:45:48 <andre__> GAN800, just a little bit, pleeeease! :-P
Jun 05 15:46:36 <dneary> Have a nice weekend all
Jun 05 15:47:16 <Stskeeps> luke-jr: we wouldn't complain so much about GPS driver if there was proper seperation between TI IPR and gpsdriver :P
Jun 05 15:48:02 <Stskeeps> and that's what i'm encouraging, if there's dbus or link protocols between things, open source the API and we can do the rest :P
Jun 05 15:48:07 <Stskeeps> like, replace clockd, for instance
Jun 05 15:48:37 <piotre> Hello, i want to encode from mic to mp3 using gstreamer and lame. but i dont get the gstreamer-plugins-ugly package. Any suggestions?
Jun 05 15:49:01 <luke-jr> Stskeeps: correct, but my complaint would be less because reverse engineering would become easier ;)
Jun 05 15:50:28 <Stskeeps> wb timeless_mbp
Jun 05 15:52:48 <Stskeeps> Robot101: the question is obviously if fluendo compiles their mp3 codec for arm too :)
Jun 05 15:52:50 <dneary> back for more punishment
Jun 05 15:53:09 <dneary> Anyone here managed to get a working fremantle beta in scratchbox at all?
Jun 05 15:53:13 <Robot101> Stskeeps: I'm pretty sure they can do, yes
Jun 05 15:53:20 <dneary> I'm playing "chase the package"
Jun 05 15:53:40 <dneary> apt-get install maemo-sdk-dev: maemo-sdk-dev: Depends: hildon-application-framework-dev but it is not going to be installed
Jun 05 15:53:57 <Stskeeps> did you add nokia-binaries?
Jun 05 15:53:57 <fiferboy> dneary: I have it working
Jun 05 15:54:05 <dneary> apt-get install hildon-application-framework-dev: hildon-application-framework-dev: Depends: libmatchbox2-dev but it is not going to be installed
Jun 05 15:54:39 <dneary> apt-get install libmatchbox2-dev: libmatchbox2-dev: Depends: libmatchbox2 (= 0.2.32-1+0m5) but it is not going to be installed/ Depends: libclutter-0.8-dev but it is not going to be installed
Jun 05 15:55:01 <Stskeeps> it smells a bit of no nokia-binaries repository?
Jun 05 15:55:05 <dneary> apt-get install libmatchbox2: libmatchbox2: Depends: libclutter-0.8-0 but it is not going to be installed
Jun 05 15:55:15 <dneary> Stskeeps: I fixed that, normally
Jun 05 15:55:22 <Stskeeps> k
Jun 05 15:55:28 <Stskeeps> and apt-get update'd i guess? :P
Jun 05 15:55:34 <dneary> This all happened when running maemo-sdk-install_5.0beta.sh
Jun 05 15:55:40 <dneary> Yeah
Jun 05 15:55:49 <luke-jr> Stskeeps: does Mer use aptitude, I hope?
Jun 05 15:56:03 <dneary> Although I'm not convinced I got actual binaries - I did run the script
Jun 05 15:56:23 <Stskeeps> luke-jr: either or
Jun 05 15:56:43 <Stskeeps> dneary: and you agreed to the EULA and got the token repositories?
Jun 05 15:56:50 <dneary> apt-get install libclutter-0.8-0: Depends: libgles2-sgx-img but it is not installable or libgles2 but it is not installable
Jun 05 15:56:56 <dneary> "I accept"
Jun 05 15:57:25 <dneary> And they don't have any installation candidates
Jun 05 15:57:52 <dneary> Stskeeps: Output:
Jun 05 15:57:54 <dneary> Nokia binaries repository has now been extracted to a directory under
Jun 05 15:57:55 <dneary> your scratchbox home path. Add the following line to maemo 4.1.1 diablo
Jun 05 15:57:55 <dneary> scratchbox targets' /etc/apt/sources.list files to make the repository
Jun 05 15:57:55 <dneary> visible to Debian apt tools:
Jun 05 15:57:55 <dneary> deb file:/home/dneary/maemo-sdk-nokia-binaries_4.1.1 diablo explicit
Jun 05 15:57:56 <dneary> Run 'apt-get update' inside scratchbox to read package index files.
Jun 05 15:58:08 <Stskeeps> nah, that's not the one
Jun 05 15:58:23 <dneary> ok
Jun 05 15:58:30 <dneary> Looks like summat broke
Jun 05 15:58:42 <Stskeeps> http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/eula/index.php
Jun 05 15:58:43 <Stskeeps> this one
Jun 05 15:59:03 <Stskeeps> it will have libgles2-sgx-img and so on
Jun 05 15:59:07 <dneary> Stskeeps: I have to download something other than the SDK?
Jun 05 15:59:09 <timeless_mbp> Stskeeps: hey
Jun 05 15:59:13 <timeless_mbp> sorry, week's over
Jun 05 15:59:15 <Stskeeps> dneary: welcome to the brave new world
Jun 05 15:59:18 * timeless_mbp will be in London next week
Jun 05 15:59:24 <Stskeeps> timeless_mbp: hehe, have a good trip :)
Jun 05 16:01:13 <KayDeeEeJon> is there a way to have a completion in maemo's terminal (like tab-completion, just that i don't see a tab key)?
Jun 05 16:01:29 <Stskeeps> maemo's terminal has tab, afaik
Jun 05 16:01:59 <KayDeeEeJon> oh right, see it now
Jun 05 16:02:07 <dneary> Stskeeps: I didn't see that documented anywhere
Jun 05 16:02:18 <KayDeeEeJon> not as a key but as a thing to click on
Jun 05 16:04:16 <KayDeeEeJon> thx
Jun 05 16:07:32 <KayDeeEeJon> i'd like to install the nokia handwriting calculator, but the link to the install file on
Jun 05 16:07:36 <KayDeeEeJon> http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/handwriting calculator/
Jun 05 16:07:59 <KayDeeEeJon> leads me to a (c)rapidshare web page
Jun 05 16:08:43 <KayDeeEeJon> is it installable with apt-get? if so, under what name?
Jun 05 16:09:03 <luke-jr> an IT man's wife asks him: Buy the eggs and if there are cucumbers - take 10. the guy goes to the shop and asks: - Do you have cucumbers? - Yes, we do. - Then 10 eggs please. ☺
Jun 05 16:09:22 <woglinde> *g*
Jun 05 16:09:26 <KayDeeEeJon> lol
Jun 05 16:10:07 <KayDeeEeJon> odd though that she would ask for 10 cucumbers
Jun 05 16:10:17 <KayDeeEeJon> i'd rather have expected this:
Jun 05 16:10:39 <woglinde> bye
Jun 05 16:10:51 <KayDeeEeJon> an IT man's wife asks him: Buy the cucumbers and if there are eggs - take 10. the guy goes to the shop and asks: - Do you have eggs? - Yes, we do. - Then 10 cucumbers please.
Jun 05 16:11:48 <woglinde> hm right
Jun 05 16:23:04 <jeremiah_N810> lcuk: Ah cool. Good to hear. I hope we didn't break anything. :)
Jun 05 16:46:35 <GAN800> Hi, Tim.
Jun 05 16:47:29 <timsamoff> Hello!
Jun 05 16:58:12 <lcuk> jeremiah_torp, nothing broken, and the assistance you two gave has helped put stuff into context
Jun 05 16:58:56 * lcuk has seen so much scrolly building code this week it made my eyes hurt
Jun 05 17:02:48 <janim> evening all
Jun 05 17:03:09 <janim> ups sorry, wrong channel but evening all stil =)
Jun 05 17:05:01 <lcuk> janim, maemo isnt the wrong channel
Jun 05 17:05:19 <luke-jr> just the wrong OS
Jun 05 17:05:52 <lcuk> chinook is used by lots of folks still, and diablo is extremely stable
Jun 05 17:06:01 <janim> lcuk: nope, it aint. but it broke my habbit of just being a lurker
Jun 05 17:06:05 <lcuk> theres some bugs that some folks notice but lots dont
Jun 05 17:06:23 <zakkm> diablo is awesome! :D
Jun 05 17:06:28 <lcuk> damn janim, you are aware now you have to speak at least a few times a day
Jun 05 17:06:37 <lcuk> yeah zakkm its the only place where liqbase will run lol
Jun 05 17:07:00 <zakkm> lcuk: you should know last night i used liqbase to read 7,905 word "novel"
Jun 05 17:07:05 <zakkm> soo nice to read
Jun 05 17:07:05 <lcuk> ahhh speaking of which - you called into the chan at about 5am the other mornin and asked for me
Jun 05 17:07:05 <janim> damn!
Jun 05 17:07:20 <lcuk> zakkm, its wonderful to read with
Jun 05 17:07:23 <zakkm> yeah sorry i didnt realize timezone change
Jun 05 17:07:35 <zakkm> yeah i lie in bed and read it, still have trouble holding the tablet though
Jun 05 17:07:37 <zakkm> how do you do it?
Jun 05 17:07:39 <lcuk> i am working as fast as i can to bring the apps themselves from original liqbase into the framework :)
Jun 05 17:07:49 <lcuk> i use a wooden crate
Jun 05 17:07:57 <zakkm> im thinking of getting something to hang from my ceiling, like a piece of string and hanging it
Jun 05 17:08:08 <lcuk> before i had that i wedge a towel through the stand and hold the towel
Jun 05 17:08:32 <lcuk> i used to hold my pda between index and ring finger
Jun 05 17:08:40 <lcuk> and use tiny knuckle motion to move pages
Jun 05 17:08:41 <zakkm> i started to use my stomach and then put stand up and then put it on my stomach and read, but that got quite hard after awhile
Jun 05 17:08:45 * lcuk misses his loox
Jun 05 17:08:59 <Macer> i think opensolaris sucks as a desktop
Jun 05 17:09:10 <zakkm> osx is the only true desktop ;D
Jun 05 17:09:20 <zakkm> nothing comes close :P
Jun 05 17:09:34 <Macer> lol
Jun 05 17:09:35 <jjo>  tend to keep my distance
Jun 05 17:09:43 <Macer> tried to get osx on my shuttle
Jun 05 17:09:55 <zakkm> what mobo is in it?
Jun 05 17:09:56 <Macer> couldnt get the onboard nic working
Jun 05 17:10:04 <zakkm> what chipset is the onboard nic?
Jun 05 17:10:14 <Macer> marvell yukon2
Jun 05 17:10:19 <Macer> ...56
Jun 05 17:10:26 <zakkm> the marvell's suck with support
Jun 05 17:10:34 <Macer> i noticed ;)
Jun 05 17:10:36 <lcuk> jjo, do you read with handhelds, or are you still a dead tree reader?
Jun 05 17:10:43 <zakkm> 88E8040?
Jun 05 17:10:52 <jjo> lcuk: dead tree
Jun 05 17:10:57 <Macer> 80556
Jun 05 17:11:12 <lcuk> is that because you havent looked or simply because you work with em for too long
Jun 05 17:11:14 <fiferboy> lbt: Major break-through in the speed department (for overshoot)
Jun 05 17:11:17 <zakkm> someone just got the yukon 2 8040 workin ;p
Jun 05 17:11:48 <zakkm> could try that one?
Jun 05 17:11:56 <Macer> zakkm: i did haha
Jun 05 17:11:59 <lcuk> zakkm, this is the crate my 810 sits in
Jun 05 17:12:00 <lcuk> http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/7308/810crateinkx8.jpg
Jun 05 17:12:03 <jjo> lcuk: I haven't really looked, haven't felt the need
Jun 05 17:12:08 <Macer> and i just didnt have it in me to use a card
Jun 05 17:12:16 <lcuk> it rests perfectly on my belly when im reading a book in fb
Jun 05 17:12:19 <zakkm> Macer: you could always get a cheap $2 NIC and stick that in the shuttle in pci slot?
Jun 05 17:12:30 <Macer> ^
Jun 05 17:12:37 <zakkm> lcuk: a whole wooden piece?
Jun 05 17:12:44 <zakkm> oh wow n810
Jun 05 17:12:44 <lcuk> yeah zakkm
Jun 05 17:12:53 <lcuk> multi purpose tho :)
Jun 05 17:13:00 <zakkm> thats so stupid there should be something better
Jun 05 17:13:09 <lcuk> it sits at 45degrees between my keyboard and monitor
Jun 05 17:13:15 <lcuk> i just drop 810 in it and its always there
Jun 05 17:13:19 <zakkm> i spent like the last two nights trying to find the best position to hold it / leave it somewhere
Jun 05 17:13:35 <lcuk> http://img99.imageshack.us/my.php?image=810cratelaptopmodetc6.jpg
Jun 05 17:13:49 <zakkm> wow i want to do thatt
Jun 05 17:13:54 <zakkm> i awnt that keyboard hah
Jun 05 17:13:55 <Macer> zakkm: it wasnt worth the hassle
Jun 05 17:14:03 <zakkm> ohh is the n810 inside the wooden thing?
Jun 05 17:14:04 <lcuk> http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/8233/810crateanglexe7.jpg
Jun 05 17:14:06 <lcuk> yeah
Jun 05 17:14:10 <Macer> i will just get a g5 or something
Jun 05 17:14:18 <lcuk> and i can rest my wrist on the wooden side and write naturally
Jun 05 17:14:21 <zakkm> Macer: $2 NIC isnt worth it?
Jun 05 17:14:22 <Macer> but osol has to go on the shuttle
Jun 05 17:14:29 <luke-jr> zakkm: you really don't
Jun 05 17:14:33 <Macer> osx isnt worth the nic ;)
Jun 05 17:14:36 <zakkm> you could also use that kext, and change the vendor id/device id to yours
Jun 05 17:14:37 <Macer> i have a mb
Jun 05 17:14:39 <zakkm> of course it is
Jun 05 17:14:49 <Macer> i tried that
Jun 05 17:14:55 <Macer> still didnt work
Jun 05 17:14:56 <zakkm> lcuk: hows the apple keyboard?
Jun 05 17:15:01 <zakkm> i was thinking ofgetting that for my n800
Jun 05 17:15:09 <lcuk> its wonderful
Jun 05 17:15:17 <lcuk> but i havent used it since i got back from the summit
Jun 05 17:15:19 <lcuk> we had a falling out
Jun 05 17:15:23 <zakkm> hah
Jun 05 17:15:25 <zakkm> what happened?
Jun 05 17:15:33 <lcuk> it was in my bag
Jun 05 17:15:37 <lcuk> and it was pressing enter
Jun 05 17:15:43 <lcuk> whilst i was trying to give presentation
Jun 05 17:15:47 <lcuk> \@
Jun 05 17:15:52 <zakkm> heh
Jun 05 17:15:55 <zakkm> didnt you unpair it?
Jun 05 17:16:00 <zakkm> turn off bluetooth on nokia?
Jun 05 17:16:08 <lcuk> i was in the middle of coding with it before the presentation
Jun 05 17:16:18 <lcuk> i got up shoved kb in bag and went presenting
Jun 05 17:16:28 <zakkm> heh
Jun 05 17:16:34 <zakkm> do you have a video of it? :P
Jun 05 17:16:45 <lcuk> liqbase.net the vimeo one
Jun 05 17:16:51 <lcuk> me wondering why it didnt work \@
Jun 05 17:17:07 <lcuk> only a little bit broken thankfully
Jun 05 17:17:19 <lcuk> it seems like such a long time ago :)
Jun 05 17:17:26 <lcuk> im so pleased with the way my code is looking
Jun 05 17:17:31 <lcuk> even though im about 10 paces back
Jun 05 17:17:43 <Macer> i guess i will put kubuntu on it
Jun 05 17:17:53 <Macer> i like kde way more than gnome
Jun 05 17:18:10 <zakkm> Macer: eww kubuntu?
Jun 05 17:18:16 <zakkm> they totally did rubbish with kde
Jun 05 17:18:19 * lcuk prefers the window manager in XP
Jun 05 17:18:26 <bobpaul> say... I've been out of it for 9 mo or so... what's the status of video chat between desktop and n8x0? still just with gizmo?
Jun 05 17:18:28 <lcuk> i wish microsoft would release it for linux
Jun 05 17:18:29 <Macer> kwin is nicer
Jun 05 17:18:33 <zakkm> *prefers osx, and is neve rleaving it*
Jun 05 17:18:37 <Macer> than gnome + compiz
Jun 05 17:18:49 <zakkm> bobpaul: yup :)
Jun 05 17:19:03 <zakkm> bobpaul: i think ppl gavea up on video
Jun 05 17:19:11 <lcuk> no they didnt!
Jun 05 17:19:16 <lcuk> i only found it a while ago
Jun 05 17:19:20 <zakkm> lcuk: that didnt last long at all, or did i miss it
Jun 05 17:19:21 <lcuk> its great!
Jun 05 17:19:27 <Macer> zakkm: osx is ok. there are just wacky things it does
Jun 05 17:19:33 <zakkm> like what?
Jun 05 17:19:34 <lcuk> zakkm, what - the bug?
Jun 05 17:19:42 <Macer> like forking hfs+ metadata over smb and nfs
Jun 05 17:19:44 <zakkm> the keyboard thing
Jun 05 17:19:52 <lcuk> it was pressing enter the whole time
Jun 05 17:19:58 <Macer> into ._foo files
Jun 05 17:20:03 <lcuk> its only stars that quits on any key
Jun 05 17:20:07 <zakkm> Macer: heh in a few days snow leopard will get shown with ZFS support..
Jun 05 17:20:10 <lcuk> but stars used to be my benchmark
Jun 05 17:20:13 <zakkm> hfs+ will be no more
Jun 05 17:20:18 <lcuk> i could tell what cpu mode it was in
Jun 05 17:20:25 <Macer> wow really?
Jun 05 17:20:26 <lcuk> and so it not showing threw me
Jun 05 17:20:33 <Macer> they lic it from sun?
Jun 05 17:20:39 <zakkm> no
Jun 05 17:20:44 <zakkm> they license it ;p
Jun 05 17:20:55 <Macer> apple owns zfs?
Jun 05 17:20:59 <zakkm> no
Jun 05 17:21:03 <zakkm> royalties and such?
Jun 05 17:21:04 <Macer> wtf?
Jun 05 17:21:08 <Macer> yes
Jun 05 17:21:09 <zakkm> paying sun to use it?
Jun 05 17:21:12 <Macer> yah
Jun 05 17:21:16 <Macer> i would guess
Jun 05 17:21:40 <Macer> thank God. hfs+ was a stupid choice of fs
Jun 05 17:21:44 <zakkm> but yeah it has zfs support now, in leopard .. just not for initial filesystem
Jun 05 17:21:59 <Macer> wtf? =)
Jun 05 17:22:05 <zakkm> system filesystem couldnt be zfs.. but mac could always read/write to zfs
Jun 05 17:22:15 <Macer> that sucks
Jun 05 17:22:20 <Macer> zfs?
Jun 05 17:22:30 <zakkm> but nextt version of mac that gets shown in 3 days / leaked.. w.e will have system zfs support
Jun 05 17:22:33 <Macer> you sure youre not thinking ufs?
Jun 05 17:22:38 <zakkm> yess -.-
Jun 05 17:22:40 <zakkm> onesec
Jun 05 17:22:53 <zakkm> im not a idiot
Jun 05 17:22:57 <Macer> lol
Jun 05 17:23:03 <zakkm> http://news.softpedia.com/news/Mac-OS-X-Snow-Leopard-Server-to-Get-Full-ZFS-Support-104112.shtml
Jun 05 17:23:21 <Macer> so many filesystems i dont remember osx having zfs support
Jun 05 17:23:27 <zakkm> http://www.apple.com/server/macosx/technology/filesystem.html
Jun 05 17:23:36 <zakkm> whatever im not googling anymore
Jun 05 17:23:44 <zakkm> i know the has this and doesnt have this
Jun 05 17:23:57 <zakkm> i been using computers my whole life
Jun 05 17:23:57 <Macer> wow
Jun 05 17:24:13 <Macer> now if only they could get the wm to suck a little less
Jun 05 17:24:21 <zakkm> thers nothing wrong with it
Jun 05 17:24:31 <Macer> they are totally ditching the ppc stuff too right?
Jun 05 17:24:35 <zakkm> yeah
Jun 05 17:24:40 <zakkm> no more ppc support
Jun 05 17:24:45 <zakkm> well
Jun 05 17:24:49 <zakkm> we'd know forsurein 3 days
Jun 05 17:24:56 <Macer> zakkm: i needed a 3rd party app to keep my mb on while the lid was closed
Jun 05 17:24:56 <zakkm> wwdc is in 3 days
Jun 05 17:25:12 <zakkm> for osx?
Jun 05 17:25:27 <Macer> ever try to change your desktop font color?
Jun 05 17:25:29 <Macer> =)
Jun 05 17:25:33 <zakkm> i use calibri
Jun 05 17:25:35 <Macer> yes ... osx
Jun 05 17:25:35 <zakkm> want a screenie?
Jun 05 17:25:47 <zakkm> want a screenie?
Jun 05 17:25:52 <Macer> did you have to pay for it?
Jun 05 17:25:57 <Macer> heh
Jun 05 17:26:01 <zakkm> font change?
Jun 05 17:26:02 <zakkm> no
Jun 05 17:26:29 <zakkm> onesec uploadin
Jun 05 17:26:38 <Macer> my gripe was that these sort of things werent included in the wm itself
Jun 05 17:26:54 <Macer> bbl
Jun 05 17:26:59 <zakkm> calibri is very nice
Jun 05 17:26:59 <zakkm> wait macer ;p
Jun 05 17:27:40 <zakkm> lcuk: very nice presentation ;p
Jun 05 17:27:55 <zakkm> http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/6088/picture2kzt.jpg osx screenie in all its glory :P
Jun 05 17:28:48 <zakkm> Macer: ^
Jun 05 17:32:07 <cmug> zakkm, how do you get the mp3 info to the top like that
Jun 05 17:32:22 <zakkm> bowtie + theme, would you like linked?
Jun 05 17:32:25 <zakkm> cmug: ^
Jun 05 17:32:33 <zakkm> its itunes btw.
Jun 05 17:34:45 <lopz> hola
Jun 05 17:35:02 <zakkm> hi lopz
Jun 05 17:35:42 <lopz> heya zakkm
Jun 05 17:35:43 <Macer> copying in android is kinda hard
Jun 05 17:36:00 <zakkm> Macer: did you see the screenie?
Jun 05 17:37:42 <Macer> yeah. thats pretty nice
Jun 05 17:38:00 <zakkm> i know eh :)
Jun 05 17:38:02 <Macer> realtek works?
Jun 05 17:38:08 <zakkm> realtek?
Jun 05 17:38:10 <Macer> 8139
Jun 05 17:38:14 <zakkm> yeah i got a realtek 1000 chip
Jun 05 17:38:15 <RST38h> moo all
Jun 05 17:38:16 <zakkm> ah yeah perfectly
Jun 05 17:38:18 <zakkm> builtin
Jun 05 17:38:24 <zakkm> the mac minis use that i believe
Jun 05 17:38:25 <Macer> oh. i have a card
Jun 05 17:38:38 <Macer> i will drop it in and try again
Jun 05 17:38:41 <zakkm> you may need a driver depending, but its just a simple kext install
Jun 05 17:38:50 <zakkm> depending on the particular card
Jun 05 17:39:02 <zakkm> Macer: boot with -f -v
Jun 05 17:39:15 <Macer> thats what i thought about the marvell
Jun 05 17:39:17 <Macer> ;)
Jun 05 17:39:32 <Macer> using boot 132?
Jun 05 17:39:32 <zakkm> nah nah
Jun 05 17:39:38 <zakkm> i use chameleon
Jun 05 17:39:54 <Macer> do you choose large for the hd type?
Jun 05 17:40:00 <zakkm> Macer: 100% support, never needed to install a kext
Jun 05 17:40:07 <zakkm> large?
Jun 05 17:40:10 <Macer> in the normal bios?
Jun 05 17:40:15 <zakkm> i left it auto
Jun 05 17:40:21 <zakkm> i installed with guid though, not mbr
Jun 05 17:40:24 <Macer> when i installed chameleon i got an error
Jun 05 17:40:29 <Macer> me too
Jun 05 17:40:48 <Macer> got hfs+ and some other stuff and had to keep booting with the disc
Jun 05 17:40:57 <zakkm> ew
Jun 05 17:40:58 <Macer> error 15 or something
Jun 05 17:41:09 <zakkm> come back and pm me, we really shouldnt channel chat this stuff hah
Jun 05 17:41:24 <Macer> haha. ok. i will see if youre around later
Jun 05 17:41:35 <Macer> but i will try the realtek
Jun 05 17:41:38 <zakkm> when you do it , pm me
Jun 05 17:41:45 <Macer> sure. thanks
Jun 05 17:41:50 <zakkm> seriously sweet scrennie eh?
Jun 05 17:41:54 <zakkm> i work hard skinning :)
Jun 05 17:41:55 <Macer> yah
Jun 05 17:41:58 <zakkm> its a weird hobby of mine
Jun 05 17:42:05 <Macer> that is pretty awesome
Jun 05 17:42:08 <zakkm> i have a better wallpaper that works, but its not dark and at night i like dark
Jun 05 17:42:11 <Macer> i like your menu bar
Jun 05 17:42:12 <zakkm> its a 22" WS monitor
Jun 05 17:42:18 <zakkm> yeah i preferit black
Jun 05 17:42:25 <Macer> me too ;)
Jun 05 17:42:29 <zakkm> and calibri for soem reason gives me soo much more menu bar space
Jun 05 17:42:34 <Macer> haha
Jun 05 17:42:43 <Macer> i will msg you when i get a chance
Jun 05 17:42:50 <Macer> watching my son now
Jun 05 17:42:57 <zakkm> wow
Jun 05 17:43:02 * zakkm feels young :) 
Jun 05 17:43:06 <Macer> lol
Jun 05 17:43:13 <Macer> he's 3 :-P
Jun 05 17:43:22 <Macer> im only 29 damnit!
Jun 05 17:43:25 <Macer> =)
Jun 05 17:43:34 <lcuk> "only"
Jun 05 17:43:40 <Macer> blah!
Jun 05 17:43:48 <Macer> bbl ;)
Jun 05 17:43:49 * lcuk is older
Jun 05 17:44:01 <lcuk> but beyond a certain age you can get away with forgetting exactly how old
Jun 05 17:44:03 <Razumihin> Internets are getting old :(
Jun 05 17:44:14 <zakkm> 18 <-- age
Jun 05 17:45:55 <Razumihin> It would be nice to know how the median age of irc users has varied over time.
Jun 05 17:47:30 <jeremiah_torp> Has anyone installed the SDK+?
Jun 05 17:47:35 <jeremiah_torp> It is flaking out on my
Jun 05 17:47:39 <jeremiah_torp> machine
Jun 05 17:48:03 <jeremiah_torp> \c
Jun 05 17:50:00 <Jaffa> Morning, all
Jun 05 17:50:59 <jeremiah_torp> Hey Jaffa, moo RST38h
Jun 05 17:54:22 <Macer> zakkm: stop while youre young!
Jun 05 17:54:34 <Macer> hurry up and get outside
Jun 05 17:54:35 <zakkm> stop growing?
Jun 05 17:54:37 <zakkm> lol
Jun 05 17:54:45 <zakkm> i have like 6 different plans today with 6 different ppl
Jun 05 17:54:55 <zakkm> im so busy with plans i have to cancel alot
Jun 05 17:55:05 <Macer> good! =)
Jun 05 17:55:14 <zakkm> lol
Jun 05 17:55:40 <Macer> just remember that irc is just a bunch of scrolling text people
Jun 05 17:55:52 <Macer> like fight club single serving friends
Jun 05 17:55:54 <zakkm> 2 malls with different ppl, tim hortons ( coffee, donut and such / chilling ) , nephews soccer game, going to friends house promised him ill give him my old harddrive cause his current 14gb got full and i got a extra 160gb,
Jun 05 17:56:10 <zakkm> going to library to study with another friend
Jun 05 17:56:17 <Macer> 14GB?
Jun 05 17:56:21 <Macer> wtf?
Jun 05 17:56:26 <zakkm> yeah
Jun 05 17:56:29 <Macer> wow
Jun 05 17:56:30 <zakkm> he has a old p3 1ghz
Jun 05 17:56:35 <Macer> ouch =)
Jun 05 17:56:40 <Macer> cruel world
Jun 05 17:56:41 <zakkm> hes so full , and i got my old 160gb just sitting in my room
Jun 05 17:56:45 <zakkm> well hes not tech savvy at all
Jun 05 17:56:51 <zakkm> its just for school/ a bit of music
Jun 05 17:57:01 <zakkm> its not like a huge multimedia gaming computer
Jun 05 17:57:16 <Macer> i'd hope not! haha
Jun 05 17:57:29 <Macer> "checj this doom game out dude!"
Jun 05 17:57:54 <zakkm> well he plays risk but thats only like 60mb, and thats his whole compute rgames
Jun 05 17:58:02 <zakkm> but yeah its full and i figure ahh 160gb
Jun 05 17:58:09 <zakkm> but yeah  i go out and such
Jun 05 17:58:24 <qwerty12_N810> be fair. quake 2 ran on my 733MHZ P3 :P
Jun 05 17:58:44 <Macer> hahahaha
Jun 05 17:59:03 <zakkm> hes saving up for a lappy for university
Jun 05 17:59:13 <zakkm> going to ottawa ( canada's capital ) for uni
Jun 05 17:59:16 <Macer> zakkm: well. i'm going to head into my lair
Jun 05 17:59:22 <zakkm> :)
Jun 05 17:59:31 <zakkm> is that code for something?
Jun 05 17:59:35 <Macer> my mother is picking up my son to take him to the park and mcdonalds
Jun 05 17:59:41 <zakkm> eww mcdonalds
Jun 05 17:59:44 <zakkm> so expensivee
Jun 05 17:59:53 <zakkm> ive found it very expensive, maybe its just here
Jun 05 18:00:05 <Macer> shit. if it gives me a break i'd buy him a steak
Jun 05 18:00:07 <Macer> hahaha
Jun 05 18:00:11 <zakkm> :D
Jun 05 18:00:17 <zakkm> good and bad to hear
Jun 05 18:00:28 <zakkm> nice to know you spoil him :)
Jun 05 18:00:33 <Macer> it is a full time job after the full time job ;)
Jun 05 18:00:39 <Macer> i try to haha
Jun 05 18:00:44 <zakkm> i have a 4 year old nephew i lovee to spoil :)
Jun 05 18:00:55 <Macer> he is a great boy. glad i got a good one
Jun 05 18:01:01 <zakkm> hahh
Jun 05 18:01:09 <Macer> some kids make me want to hit them with baseball bats
Jun 05 18:01:14 <zakkm> :O
Jun 05 18:01:17 <Macer> lol
Jun 05 18:01:19 <zakkm> terrible
Jun 05 18:01:24 <Macer> yet true
Jun 05 18:01:35 <Macer> my son is pretty mellow
Jun 05 18:01:52 <zakkm> teaching him the ins and outs of computers yet?
Jun 05 18:02:04 <zakkm> 3 years old is a good time to start if you are :P
Jun 05 18:02:08 <Macer> my ex gf had a son that was wired up on life. he put my son to shame on the hyperactive meter
Jun 05 18:02:21 <Macer> zakkm:  i try
Jun 05 18:02:31 <zakkm> i taught my nephew at 3 years old, youtube :P
Jun 05 18:02:44 <Macer> haha
Jun 05 18:02:47 <zakkm> he comes over for sleepovers sometimes, kicks me off my computer.. goes on youtube and clicks on vids and such
Jun 05 18:02:55 <zakkm> stands up on the chair changes the speaker volume
Jun 05 18:03:01 <zakkm> all on his own
Jun 05 18:03:11 <Macer> hahahahaha.. my son knows where the noggin bookmark is =)
Jun 05 18:03:19 <Macer> it's scary
Jun 05 18:03:27 <fiferboy> Macer: I've got a mellow 3 year-old too!
Jun 05 18:03:32 <zakkm> can even play someee flash games, but not many
Jun 05 18:03:33 <Macer> i dont want him to be a cave child
Jun 05 18:03:41 <zakkm> whats a cave child?
Jun 05 18:03:51 <Macer> inside with video games all damn day long
Jun 05 18:03:57 <zakkm> ahh
Jun 05 18:04:01 <zakkm> thatss teribble
Jun 05 18:04:05 <Macer> kids dont go outside anymore =)
Jun 05 18:04:09 <zakkm> he should go out
Jun 05 18:04:23 <Macer> he does
Jun 05 18:04:30 <zakkm> at 3 ;P but lateron too
Jun 05 18:04:37 <zakkm> why would you wish he was a cave child?
Jun 05 18:04:40 <zakkm> safe at home?
Jun 05 18:04:54 <Macer> i said dont want him to be one ;)
Jun 05 18:04:59 <zakkm> ooo
Jun 05 18:05:07 <zakkm> ohhh lol im tiredd
Jun 05 18:05:16 <Macer> brb. heading to this shuttle to do this boot 132 stuff again
Jun 05 18:05:28 <Macer> and pray the realtek works
Jun 05 18:05:32 <Macer> =)
Jun 05 18:05:35 <zakkm> wait
Jun 05 18:05:38 <zakkm> boot with -f -v
Jun 05 18:05:51 <Macer> from the 132 cd?
Jun 05 18:06:01 <zakkm> if you boot with that
Jun 05 18:06:08 <zakkm> rd=disk0s2 -f -v
Jun 05 18:06:12 <zakkm> sort of thing
Jun 05 18:06:30 <Macer> the disk would be disk0s1
Jun 05 18:06:42 <zakkm> k then rd=disk0s1 -f -v
Jun 05 18:06:45 <Macer> i was using the master sata 1 partition 1tb drive
Jun 05 18:07:16 <Macer> ok. have to put the card in .. if youre going to be around i'll msg
Jun 05 18:07:33 <zakkm> yeah for another 30min or so - ish
Jun 05 18:19:05 <Macer> alrighty
Jun 05 18:57:44 <fiferboy> lbt: ping?
Jun 05 18:57:50 <lbt> hi
Jun 05 18:57:56 <lbt> still building locally :)
Jun 05 18:59:05 <fiferboy> Fun!
Jun 05 18:59:17 <fiferboy> I have a way better solution than my previous one.
Jun 05 18:59:27 <lbt> nah, trying to figre out a DVCS/packaging solution is fun .... not!
Jun 05 18:59:33 <fiferboy> Faster, simpler, better.
Jun 05 18:59:34 <lbt> OK?
Jun 05 19:00:09 <lbt> TBH I haven't looked at the paint code ... I started and then got stuck on making the damn thing run
Jun 05 19:00:14 <fiferboy> No extra functions, only local variables, same speed as your previous solution, none of the problems of my previous solution
Jun 05 19:00:22 <lbt> excellent
Jun 05 19:00:47 <fiferboy> Actually, I don't touch the paint code in either solution.
Jun 05 19:01:04 <lbt> have you tested it on qt4-demos ?
Jun 05 19:01:07 <fiferboy> I was going to look into that, then I got into using setViewportMargins
Jun 05 19:01:35 <fiferboy> No, I'll have to install those.  Do they run well enough on the tablet, or should I try them in scratchbox?
Jun 05 19:02:00 <lbt> tablet is a good test...
Jun 05 19:02:10 <lbt> you can't see the text in the main menu though
Jun 05 19:03:08 <fiferboy> I'll give it a try (if I have enough room left on my device)
Jun 05 19:03:25 <KayDeeEeJon> the qt version installable from the maemo site seems to be a 4.3.2  ??
Jun 05 19:03:28 <KayDeeEeJon> http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/qt4/
Jun 05 19:03:46 <lbt> extras is higher IIRC
Jun 05 19:03:53 <KayDeeEeJon> ok thx
Jun 05 19:09:30 <KayDeeEeJon> is there a site/page that presents the packages in extra link the maemo site does for the 2008 packages?
Jun 05 19:09:44 <KayDeeEeJon> s/link/like/
Jun 05 19:09:44 <infobot> KayDeeEeJon meant: is there a site/page that presents the packages in extra like the maemo site does for the 2008 packages?
Jun 05 19:09:58 <zakkm> KayDeeEeJon: theres the repository url?
Jun 05 19:10:24 <GAN800> Erm, 'packages in extras'?
Jun 05 19:10:45 <GAN800> downloads.maemo.org _is_ the packages in Extras
Jun 05 19:11:05 <GAN800> But, no, there's not yet a packages.maemo.org
Jun 05 19:12:37 <KayDeeEeJon> do the packages in extras all show in the categories-based menu at http://maemo.org/downloads/OS2008/
Jun 05 19:14:55 <andre__> hmm, are there any public screenshots of the fremantle file browser somewhere?
Jun 05 19:14:57 * andre__ wondering
Jun 05 19:18:18 <andre__> now should i close https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2105 as wontfix or not? sigh
Jun 05 19:20:11 <lbt> eww
Jun 05 19:22:25 <Stskeeps> andre__: we havent seen file manager officially yet
Jun 05 19:22:57 <andre__> Stskeeps, ah good. So I shouldn't leak too much :-P
Jun 05 19:23:00 <fiferboy> lbt: I had to uninstall some things, but qtdemo is running.
Jun 05 19:23:05 <fiferboy> Any way to full screen it?
Jun 05 19:23:39 <fiferboy> Got it, button in the bottom right
Jun 05 19:28:23 <zakkm> andre__: you know everything in fremantle that others dont?
Jun 05 19:29:03 * Jaffa saw a nice ARM-based netbook due for release shortly with a rotating tablet/netbook screen (on a Java SE Embedded stand)
Jun 05 19:29:19 <Stskeeps> if he has to be efficient punching bag internally and externally, he prolly has to
Jun 05 19:29:24 <andre__> zakkm, haha, no... but a few things at least
Jun 05 19:29:37 <zakkm> andre__: how?
Jun 05 19:30:04 <fiferboy> lbt: Found a problem with table/listviews
Jun 05 19:30:09 <Stskeeps> its prolly called a magic nda
Jun 05 19:30:27 <fiferboy> As the documentation says, I have to take into account header space (margins)
Jun 05 19:30:28 <lbt> fiferboy: yeah....
Jun 05 19:30:34 <andre__> zakkm, i have access to the internal bugtracker, and that seems to mean that i also have access to some docs (and i sometimes think that nokia maybe does not know the latter)
Jun 05 19:30:45 <fiferboy> Shouldn't be too bad to fix (hopefully)
Jun 05 19:31:03 <zakkm> andre__: hahh awesome
Jun 05 19:31:40 <andre__> at least it's helpful to get the job done a bit better imo
Jun 05 19:31:44 <fiferboy> lbt: Now I forget, what did your code do when scrolling with headers on?
Jun 05 19:31:56 <fiferboy> Leave a gap between the header and the contents when overshooting?
Jun 05 19:32:28 <lbt> that would be nice
Jun 05 19:32:45 <lbt> makes sense too
Jun 05 19:33:32 <fiferboy> I think it is the easiest, too :)
Jun 05 19:34:19 <lbt> yes, it should be
Jun 05 19:41:36 <fiferboy> lbt: Fixed it for left-to-right layouts, right-to-left should be a simple addition
Jun 05 19:41:51 <fiferboy> r-t-l will be harder to test, though :)
Jun 05 19:42:08 <lbt> heh
Jun 05 19:50:45 <fiferboy> lbt: The problem is fixed, but it is a little disconcerting to have the items scroll while the headers stay in place.
Jun 05 19:51:06 <lbt> don't spreadsheets do that?
Jun 05 19:51:14 <fiferboy> For example, scrolling vertically with horizontal headers on, the list moves past the end but the headers on the side stay in place.
Jun 05 19:51:34 <fiferboy> Spreadsheets don't normally scroll past their limits, do they?
Jun 05 19:53:08 <fiferboy> Do you want a screenshot of what I am talking about?
Jun 05 19:55:12 <lbt> ah
Jun 05 19:55:22 <lbt> so they no longer line up...
Jun 05 19:55:27 <lbt> in overshoot
Jun 05 19:55:33 <lbt> ugh
Jun 05 19:55:39 <lbt> :)
Jun 05 20:01:52 <fiferboy> Yes, I would think the proper thing to do would be have the header scroll off with the itme
Jun 05 20:02:16 <fiferboy> But I'm not sure how to accomplish that.  It could be as simple as translating the appropriate header by the same amount
Jun 05 20:02:33 <fiferboy> But how to find out if the widget is using headers?
Jun 05 20:09:20 <lbt> fiferboy: I think we need to implement overshoot in the instantiated widgets too
Jun 05 20:09:52 <fiferboy> Meaning?
Jun 05 20:10:27 <lbt> QGraphicsView, QMdiArea, QPlainTextEdit, QScrollArea, and QTextEdit.
Jun 05 20:10:50 <lbt> ie not 'abstract'
Jun 05 20:11:20 <fiferboy> Ah.  Instead of in QAbstractScrollArea or in addition to?
Jun 05 20:11:37 <lbt> virtual ?
Jun 05 20:12:03 <lbt> so where the behaviour of the class demands a re-implementation of overshoot
Jun 05 20:12:17 <fiferboy> So the instantiated widget will override the abstract implementation?
Jun 05 20:12:18 <lbt> eg when it displays headers
Jun 05 20:12:27 <lbt> yes...
Jun 05 20:12:39 <fiferboy> That sounds reasonable.  More work, but reasonable
Jun 05 20:12:39 <lbt> here my formal language breaks down
Jun 05 20:12:50 <lbt> but I think virtual methods
Jun 05 20:13:45 <fiferboy> And QWebView needs its own implementation anyway
Jun 05 20:14:03 <lbt> yeah, IIRC it reimplements QASA
Jun 05 20:14:30 <fiferboy> I think QGraphicsView is fine with the abstract implementation, as is QScrollArea
Jun 05 20:14:35 <lbt> but we should be able to seperate out the fingerscroller and reuse it
Jun 05 20:14:57 <lbt> heh... the cat sat on my wife's printscrn button
Jun 05 20:15:08 <lbt> she has 70 knsnapshots now
Jun 05 20:15:21 <lbt> and climbing  ROFL
Jun 05 20:15:22 <fiferboy> QAbstractItemView doesn't use headers itself, but QTableView and QListView do.
Jun 05 20:15:33 <fiferboy> LOL
Jun 05 20:16:44 <lbt> http://doc.trolltech.com/4.5/qabstractitemview.html
Jun 05 20:16:49 <lbt> Inherited by QColumnView, QHeaderView, QListView, QTableView, and QTreeView.
Jun 05 20:16:53 <fiferboy> lbt: I will send you my latest changes.  We should be happy with the base implementation before we make others
Jun 05 20:16:59 <lbt> indeed
Jun 05 20:17:11 <lbt> part of the reason for just having the overshoot
Jun 05 20:17:24 <lbt> was to allow this "tuning"
Jun 05 20:18:16 <lbt> anything inheriting QASA may now need to implement (or stub) the overshoot to get sane behaviour though :(
Jun 05 20:18:55 <lbt> I've asked gnuton to get the Qt guys to review the code and discuss the implementation design
Jun 05 20:19:13 <fiferboy> Perhaps it would be better to break the finger scrolling into more functions so anything inheriting QASA can just override small portions.
Jun 05 20:19:49 <fiferboy> I could easily make a drawOvershoot(int x, int y) funtction that will allow other widgets to keep the bulk of the QASA finger scrolling code
Jun 05 20:19:55 <lbt> well, to my mind we have fingerscroll and overshoot
Jun 05 20:21:54 <lcuk> i gather scrolling upto the boundary is respected much better
Jun 05 20:22:31 <lcuk> ie doesnt make the functions for headers etc break because the abstractitem is always within expected bounds
Jun 05 20:22:34 <fiferboy> lcuk: I haven't come across any issues with scrolling within the boundaries
Jun 05 20:22:46 <fiferboy> lcuk: Correct
Jun 05 20:22:54 <lcuk> then put that in a stand alone clean simple patch
Jun 05 20:23:02 <lbt> I did
Jun 05 20:23:05 <lcuk> that works everywhere and is stable
Jun 05 20:23:06 <lcuk> :)
Jun 05 20:23:13 <lbt> gnuton wanted bounce
Jun 05 20:23:28 <lcuk> yes, bounce will need more work obviously ;)
Jun 05 20:23:37 <lbt> bounce=overshoot
Jun 05 20:23:47 <lbt> and that's what we're doing....
Jun 05 20:23:57 <lbt> AFAIK the fingerscroll is clean
Jun 05 20:24:08 <fiferboy> lbt: The per-pixel vs per-item is also, AFAIK, a QAbstractItemView-only problem
Jun 05 20:24:31 <lbt> I should really have these in discrete branches in gitorious
Jun 05 20:24:35 <lbt> fiferboy: is it?
Jun 05 20:25:02 <fiferboy> Yes, the QAbstractItemView has the functions for setVerticalScrollMode and setHorizontalScrollMode
Jun 05 20:25:24 <lcuk> lbt, if i were implementing a header in lb, i would have it offset by the actual xy of the contents - is the overshoot "faking" the position of the item, or are the headers specifically looking for data within 0..w
Jun 05 20:25:26 <lbt> ah yes
Jun 05 20:25:54 <fiferboy> lcuk: The headers are distinct widgets drawn in a margin of the item view
Jun 05 20:26:15 <fiferboy> They scroll in step, but changes to the viewport margins affect them strangely
Jun 05 20:26:27 <lbt> I am very uncomfortable overriding ScrollPerItem
Jun 05 20:26:32 <lcuk> yeah, with event handlers based on the move event of the contents
Jun 05 20:26:40 <lbt> if the dev sets that... then you get that.
Jun 05 20:26:57 <fiferboy> lbt: I changed the QAbstractItemView code to default to ScrollPerPixel in my build :)
Jun 05 20:27:10 <lbt> if making the app tabletfriendly needs a change then do it in the app
Jun 05 20:27:47 <fiferboy> There is an argument for changing the default (but still allowing override) especially on a tablet with a small screen
Jun 05 20:27:53 <lbt> I don't mind adding to the framework, but overriding the developer.... sorry, we don't know best :)
Jun 05 20:28:12 <lbt> well, the problem is that the default is documented
Jun 05 20:28:19 <fiferboy> If you item height or width is larger than the viewport available on the tablet you will never be able to see the edges of that item (if ScrollPerItem is on)
Jun 05 20:28:20 <lbt> so you don't know if they were lazy
Jun 05 20:28:32 <lbt> or badly wanted the default
Jun 05 20:28:40 <lbt> and didn't need to code it :)
Jun 05 20:28:44 <fiferboy> lbt: True
Jun 05 20:29:10 <fiferboy> If they see their desired behaviour is the default they won't explicitly override it
Jun 05 20:29:12 <lbt> I think if an app has items that large
Jun 05 20:29:19 <lbt> then we need to change the app
Jun 05 20:29:51 <lbt> so I will strongly suggest we don't break the defined behaviour
Jun 05 20:30:34 <fiferboy> lbt: I agree, I just did that on my build so I wouldn't have to change the default of every scroll area in my program
Jun 05 20:30:38 <lbt> gnuton also does some 'clever' tricks in the framework to hack on menu items too
Jun 05 20:30:41 <fiferboy> In other words, I was lazy
Jun 05 20:31:12 <fiferboy> Well, I have to go
Jun 05 20:31:17 <lbt> 'k
Jun 05 20:31:27 <lbt> thanks for this...
Jun 05 20:31:41 <fiferboy> Looks like there is more work than I thought left for finger scrolling...
Jun 05 20:31:42 <lbt> drop me what you have :)
Jun 05 20:31:50 <fiferboy> It should be sent now
Jun 05 20:32:02 <lbt> got it
Jun 05 20:32:33 <fiferboy> When we decide what should be done next I'll start working on something
Jun 05 20:32:51 <lbt> I'd like to get this sorted and into gitorious
Jun 05 20:33:06 <lbt> and then see gnuton's tree in there
Jun 05 20:33:17 <fiferboy> That is probably a good next move.  I'll really have to learn more aobut GIT
Jun 05 20:33:37 * lbt nods
Jun 05 20:33:43 <fiferboy> Fortunately there is some good documentation ;)
Jun 05 20:33:51 <fiferboy> Talk to you later.
Jun 05 20:33:54 <lbt> lots of tutorials too ;)
Jun 05 20:33:56 <lbt> l8r
Jun 05 20:33:57 <lbt> thanks
Jun 05 20:34:01 <fiferboy> np
Jun 05 21:23:28 <mib_9fs00m> HI ROOM
Jun 05 21:23:55 <Jaffa> Hello mib_9fs00m
Jun 05 21:24:34 <mib_9fs00m> does anyone know if the n810 will have hardware accleration, ever !
Jun 05 21:24:59 <luke-jr> mib_9fs00m: depends on for what
Jun 05 21:25:00 <jonrafkind> has anyone set up scratchbox to work with maemo? when I run af-sb-init.sh I get errors about missing files
Jun 05 21:25:26 <mib_9fs00m> for web browser, and watching vidoes
Jun 05 21:25:43 <luke-jr> mib_9fs00m: there is no such thing as hardware accelerated browsers
Jun 05 21:25:59 <luke-jr> and I'm pretty sure video is already as accelerated as the hardware supports
Jun 05 21:26:02 <mib_9fs00m> ofcourse there is, look at the iphone
Jun 05 21:26:06 <luke-jr> …
Jun 05 21:26:16 <luke-jr> mib_9fs00m: what about iCrapPhone
Jun 05 21:26:35 <luke-jr> it has a browser, yes, but not accelerated in any way AFAIK
Jun 05 21:26:37 <mib_9fs00m> nokia have disabled the power VR chip
Jun 05 21:26:41 <luke-jr> browsers are inherently software
Jun 05 21:26:45 <luke-jr> PowerVR has nothing to do with browsers
Jun 05 21:26:52 <luke-jr> nor is it disabled, just not supported by Linux
Jun 05 21:27:06 <mib_9fs00m> have you read the forums
Jun 05 21:27:15 <Jaffa> mib_9fs00m: The iPhone uses h/w acceleration for zooming *effects* but it's not core to the browser
Jun 05 21:27:44 <mib_9fs00m> come on, you beed hardware accel, to have nice user experince
Jun 05 21:27:45 <Jaffa> mib_9fs00m: As luke-jr says, it's not been disabled - it's just not got any drivers (subtle difference ;-))
Jun 05 21:28:01 <mib_9fs00m> n810 sucks
Jun 05 21:28:08 <luke-jr> mib_9fs00m: yes, it does, but not due to lack of 3D
Jun 05 21:28:12 <luke-jr> N810 never advertised 3D
Jun 05 21:28:18 <luke-jr> nobody has any reason to expect it
Jun 05 21:28:25 <Jaffa> mib_9fs00m: The next device has got working 3D accel
Jun 05 21:28:44 <luke-jr> N810's suck comes from lack of GPS and a crappy keyboard ;)
Jun 05 21:28:54 <mib_9fs00m> why it always the next device, this chip can support 3d
Jun 05 21:29:15 <luke-jr> mib_9fs00m: hire someone to write a driver
Jun 05 21:29:18 <Jaffa> mib_9fs00m: See (OTTOMH) http://wiki.maemo.org/Drivers_Justification and its "Talk:" page
Jun 05 21:29:33 <mib_9fs00m> nokia wont relase the hardware
Jun 05 21:29:40 <lcuk> mib_9fs00m, i beg to differ, the n810 is a fucking shit hot super machine!  and my liqbase proves its no slouch
Jun 05 21:29:40 <mib_9fs00m> its locked
Jun 05 21:29:49 <Jaffa> Nokia can't release the drivers
Jun 05 21:29:53 <mib_9fs00m> oh hi lcuk
Jun 05 21:30:04 <luke-jr> Jaffa: if the drivers exist, Nokia could
Jun 05 21:30:11 <luke-jr> GPL license guarantees that right
Jun 05 21:30:25 <Jaffa> luke-jr: Not in a GPL-compatible way they can't
Jun 05 21:30:35 <Jaffa> (and it's unstable IIRC)
Jun 05 21:30:55 <luke-jr> ok, correction, if Nokia got drivers from TI
Jun 05 21:31:00 <mib_9fs00m> does anyone in the UK want brandnew n810, for 80 pounds
Jun 05 21:31:16 <luke-jr> I suppose if Nokia wrote them under NDA, there's a problem
Jun 05 21:31:21 <mib_9fs00m> i used it 2 times
Jun 05 21:31:30 <luke-jr> mib_9fs00m: I'll take it for 50 USD :þ
Jun 05 21:31:36 <mib_9fs00m> lol
Jun 05 21:31:36 <lcuk> yeah give me �80 and ill take it off your hands
Jun 05 21:31:59 <luke-jr> mib_9fs00m: I'll let you use my patent if you want to buy a SmartQ ;)
Jun 05 21:32:04 <mib_9fs00m> im selling it for 80gbp, this device is really crap
Jun 05 21:32:12 <luke-jr> it's not worth 80gbp
Jun 05 21:32:15 <mib_9fs00m> i hate it
Jun 05 21:32:37 <luke-jr> oh, GBP is worth less than I thought now
Jun 05 21:32:45 <luke-jr> hum, 128 USD not too bad
Jun 05 21:32:51 <luke-jr> but I'd rather get a SmartQ at this point
Jun 05 21:33:04 <mib_9fs00m> im never buying nokia again
Jun 05 21:33:07 <lcuk> mib_9fs00m, so whats your wet dream then, what device manages to capture your attention more
Jun 05 21:33:23 <luke-jr> mib_9fs00m: I will only consider it after careful review
Jun 05 21:33:23 <mib_9fs00m> pandora
Jun 05 21:33:30 <lcuk> ok, can you buy one now?
Jun 05 21:33:31 <luke-jr> eg, building my own firmware from scratch sources
Jun 05 21:33:41 <luke-jr> mib_9fs00m: Pandora isn't any better, last I heard
Jun 05 21:33:42 <Jaffa> luke-jr: I've heard poor things about the performance on scrolling, so it's not as much of a step-up as you'd think :(
Jun 05 21:33:54 <mib_9fs00m> really
Jun 05 21:34:10 <luke-jr> Jaffa: it's not the hardware, it's because it's open
Jun 05 21:34:39 <mib_9fs00m> n810 is the worst device ive seen in along time
Jun 05 21:34:40 <lcuk> mib_9fs00m, what do you like about the pandora - last i heard it had kind of a bland experience
Jun 05 21:34:44 <Jaffa> mib_9fs00m: Pandora - if it evers ships - may well have better hardware (it *is* 3 years later), but the s/w will be ropey unless you just want to play games
Jun 05 21:35:06 <luke-jr> Jaffa: if I could get GPS usable, I would probably be decently satisfied with my N810 for its generation
Jun 05 21:35:25 <Jaffa> luke-jr: Unless it's a video bandwidth issue
Jun 05 21:35:27 <luke-jr> heh, N810 factory software sucks too, big deal
Jun 05 21:35:27 <mib_9fs00m> yes but it will be devolped. to high standard hopefully
Jun 05 21:35:42 <luke-jr> Jaffa: what does video bandwidht have to do with it?
Jun 05 21:35:44 <mib_9fs00m> lol, n810 sucks, period
Jun 05 21:36:06 * luke-jr is not interested in factory software, just wants to run a normal OS (Gentoo)
Jun 05 21:36:07 <Jaffa> luke-jr: Mine's not too bad now; it's just a case of remembering to enable it before I need it and ensuring supld's not crashed
Jun 05 21:36:39 <mib_9fs00m> nokia are the fucking piss out of us
Jun 05 21:36:41 <Jaffa> luke-jr: OOTB Maemo doesn't suck too much (under the covers, anyway) - lots of work on power mgmt
Jun 05 21:37:05 <luke-jr> Jaffa: I'm at ~12 hours TTFF right now
Jun 05 21:37:10 <Jaffa> Not that it's always good enough
Jun 05 21:37:18 <Jaffa> luke-jr: Using A-GPS?
Jun 05 21:37:25 <luke-jr> AGPS doesn't work with hacked gpsdriver
Jun 05 21:37:29 <Stskeeps> luke-jr doesn't believe in AGPS because it uses gconf
Jun 05 21:37:30 <Stskeeps> :P
Jun 05 21:37:37 <luke-jr> and unhacked gpsdriver is screwed up too much to work on anything but stupid Maemo
Jun 05 21:37:38 * Jaffa was getting ~30s on holiday last month
Jun 05 21:37:56 <mib_9fs00m> Maemo is pile of crap too
Jun 05 21:37:58 <luke-jr> mib_9fs00m: like I said, get a SmartQ and use my patent with it:)
Jun 05 21:37:59 <Jaffa> luke-jr: Right, so you break the s/w and then blame the GPS. Hmm...
Jun 05 21:38:07 <luke-jr> Jaffa: no, I didn't break anything
Jun 05 21:38:11 <luke-jr> the s/w is broken
Jun 05 21:38:16 <luke-jr> it won't even RUN without the hacks
Jun 05 21:38:42 <mib_9fs00m> this device is seriously rubbish
Jun 05 21:38:55 <luke-jr> mib_9fs00m: do you see my SmartQ suggestion?
Jun 05 21:38:56 <Stskeeps> donate to someone who can actually use it
Jun 05 21:39:06 <Jaffa> mib_9fs00m: If you just want to troll, perhaps you could redirect to /dev/null?
Jun 05 21:39:16 <luke-jr> mib_9fs00m: actually, I'll donate to a fund to have your N810 donated to a serious kernel developer
Jun 05 21:39:34 <mib_9fs00m> what about my 200gbp
Jun 05 21:39:44 <luke-jr> mib_9fs00m: you paid 200gbp? ripof
Jun 05 21:39:49 <mib_9fs00m> yes
Jun 05 21:40:29 <lcuk> what comparable product could you purchase right now would satisfy you
Jun 05 21:40:30 <tank-man> you paid that much recently ?
Jun 05 21:40:31 <luke-jr> mib_9fs00m: I'll donate 20gbp to have your N810 go to a serious kernel dev
Jun 05 21:40:40 <luke-jr> mib_9fs00m: find a few more people willing to do the same ☺
Jun 05 21:40:48 <Jaffa> mib_9fs00m: Send it back to the retailer if you bought it online <14 days ago (Distance Selling Regulations 2000)
Jun 05 21:41:08 <mib_9fs00m> iphone, atleast it has 3d hardware enabled, and everyhing else, the omap was designed to do
Jun 05 21:41:18 <luke-jr> actually, maybe I should be petitioning Nokia to donate one to a kernel dev
Jun 05 21:41:20 <lcuk> yes, are you a developer?
Jun 05 21:41:52 <Jaffa> luke-jr: Loads of kernel devs got 770s, N800s and N810s (or were at least offered)
Jun 05 21:41:55 <lcuk> do you use linux and open source methods to build with normally, or are you an objective c kinda guy
Jun 05 21:42:02 <Jaffa> Alan Cox had one, for example
Jun 05 21:42:08 <luke-jr> Jaffa: then why doesn't it work? :/
Jun 05 21:42:23 <Jaffa> "it"?
Jun 05 21:42:40 <luke-jr> Jaffa: Linux-OMAP on N810 is unusable
Jun 05 21:42:44 <mib_9fs00m> lcuk, do you know anything about the 3d hardware in the n810
Jun 05 21:42:54 <luke-jr> Jaffa: the keyboard especially is screwed
Jun 05 21:43:02 <lcuk> no but i really dont think it needs it to have an enjoyable user experience
Jun 05 21:43:16 <mib_9fs00m> how can you say that,
Jun 05 21:43:19 <Jaffa> luke-jr: That's demonstrably false, since I'm using it right now ;-)
Jun 05 21:43:28 <luke-jr> Jaffa: you are? how?
Jun 05 21:43:31 <lcuk> at this point i would be happy saying its about as fast as it can be
Jun 05 21:43:43 <luke-jr> Jaffa: I posted to the ML about it and all I got was another guy confirming
Jun 05 21:43:52 <lcuk> using the powervr would at best give an rgb image
Jun 05 21:43:52 <mib_9fs00m> lcuk, you are wrong
Jun 05 21:43:54 <Jaffa> Sub-optimal, perhaps; but Nokia are in the top 10 kernel contributors (according to LWN analysis)
Jun 05 21:44:00 <lcuk> that would suffer from tearing
Jun 05 21:44:03 <lcuk> liqbase does not
Jun 05 21:44:12 <luke-jr> Jaffa: well, I'm building rc8 now, maybe it was fixed recently?
Jun 05 21:44:16 <luke-jr> though I didn't see it in shortlog
Jun 05 21:44:39 <Jaffa> luke-jr: Maemo's based on Linux-OMAP; or do you mean the current HEAD?
Jun 05 21:44:46 <lcuk> so best case scenario would be a lower resolution RGB mode going over the bus etc, but still around 20% more bandwidth than mine
Jun 05 21:45:10 <mib_9fs00m> luck can you devolp are driver,
Jun 05 21:45:18 <luke-jr> Jaffa: current HEAD
Jun 05 21:45:30 <luke-jr> Jaffa: Maemo's kernel is 3 years old or so
Jun 05 21:45:33 <Jaffa> luke-jr: Loads of OMAP2 support was removed IIRC
Jun 05 21:45:37 <luke-jr> wtf?
Jun 05 21:45:48 <luke-jr> why the heck would they remove it?
Jun 05 21:45:57 <mib_9fs00m> liqbase is really impressive,
Jun 05 21:46:22 <Jaffa> luke-jr: Ask the linux-omap maintainer?
Jun 05 21:46:31 <luke-jr> Jaffa: anyhow, the drivers are there, just broken
Jun 05 21:46:44 <mib_9fs00m> what do you mean broken
Jun 05 21:46:46 <luke-jr> the Shift keys and fghjvbnm don't press
Jun 05 21:46:52 <luke-jr> mib_9fs00m: not talking about 3D
Jun 05 21:47:01 <mib_9fs00m> ok sorry
Jun 05 21:47:06 <luke-jr> I honestly don't care about 3D
Jun 05 21:47:10 <luke-jr> I don't even use 3D on my desktop machine
Jun 05 21:47:22 <mib_9fs00m> you dont know what 3d is
Jun 05 21:47:35 <dieb_> How to remove a wrong package upload to maemo extras devel ?
Jun 05 21:47:42 <luke-jr> mib_9fs00m: useless eye candy
Jun 05 21:47:46 <mib_9fs00m> if you had no hardware accelration, you coudnt even browse the web smoothly
Jun 05 21:47:54 <luke-jr> mib_9fs00m: nonsense
Jun 05 21:48:00 <Jaffa> dieb_: Upload a newer version
Jun 05 21:48:04 <mib_9fs00m> lol, its true
Jun 05 21:48:13 <Stskeeps> mib_9fs00m: bullcrap. try webkit and Tear.
Jun 05 21:48:17 <luke-jr> mib_9fs00m: you, sir, are an idiot ☺
Jun 05 21:48:36 <dieb_> Jaffa: what if it's been uploaded by mistake and should be deleted completely?
Jun 05 21:48:38 <mib_9fs00m> what, try using, windows, without a proper 3d driver
Jun 05 21:48:40 <Jaffa> dieb_: Or ask X-Fade or jeremiah to delete it if it's not something you want to override
Jun 05 21:48:42 <lcuk> i wonder what would happen if i tied together simple little html chunks with simple little liq* elements :)
Jun 05 21:48:54 <luke-jr> mib_9fs00m: no, Windows sucks
Jun 05 21:48:57 <dieb_> Jaffa: thanks
Jun 05 21:49:03 <cosmo> is there any web browser which supports 3d acceleration?
Jun 05 21:49:06 <luke-jr> mib_9fs00m: you would have to pay me to touch Windows
Jun 05 21:49:16 <mib_9fs00m> any good o/s needs 3d accelration
Jun 05 21:49:27 <Jaffa> cosmo: iPhone uses the h/w accel to do transitions
Jun 05 21:49:30 <cosmo> at least firefox doesn't, so i guess its useless
Jun 05 21:49:32 <lcuk> they coped just fine for however many years before
Jun 05 21:49:36 <lcuk> and mine is 2d now
Jun 05 21:49:37 <dieb_> X-Fade, jeremiah_torp ping
Jun 05 21:49:51 <Jaffa> This is not the ssame as "needing" to have 3D to browse the web, as mib_9fs00m claims
Jun 05 21:50:08 <mib_9fs00m> i think you guys are confusing hardware accleration, for something else
Jun 05 21:50:24 <mib_9fs00m> you need hardware accelrated graphics
Jun 05 21:50:39 <luke-jr> no, you don't
Jun 05 21:50:47 <Jaffa> mib_9fs00m: To render HTML, to execute JS? No.
Jun 05 21:50:53 <Stskeeps> you might need bitblit, sure, but 3d? no
Jun 05 21:51:06 <mib_9fs00m> so is the os2008 smooth to use, can you drag and drop, and rezise?
Jun 05 21:51:09 <cosmo> does hw 2d blitting and gfx primitives count as acceleration?
Jun 05 21:51:12 <lcuk> i can
Jun 05 21:51:22 <mib_9fs00m> lol, no you cant, it sucks
Jun 05 21:51:42 * Stskeeps puts a troll hat on mib_9fs00m and goes do something useful
Jun 05 21:52:08 * Jaffa goes tto listen to OO Ant
Jun 05 21:52:28 <mib_9fs00m> i tired to reize a fucking rss reader, the dam thing crashed
Jun 05 21:52:35 <mib_9fs00m> wtf
Jun 05 21:52:44 <luke-jr> mib_9fs00m: as if that has anything to do with hardware acceleration
Jun 05 21:52:46 <luke-jr> get a clue
Jun 05 21:53:02 <luke-jr> gentooer: hi
Jun 05 21:53:07 <mib_9fs00m> you have no idea. what 3d hardware, can do
Jun 05 21:53:16 <Stskeeps> mib_9fs00m: anyway, most of us are not developers of maemo os here. so why are you bitching?
Jun 05 21:53:19 <gentooer> hello
Jun 05 21:53:19 <Stskeeps> we're happy users.
Jun 05 21:53:23 <luke-jr> mib_9fs00m: I think I have a much much better idea than you do
Jun 05 21:53:42 <mib_9fs00m> becuase i just wasted 200gbp, on worst piece if shit ever
Jun 05 21:53:45 <luke-jr> gentooer: what device do you have?
Jun 05 21:54:01 <luke-jr> mib_9fs00m: do your research before buying things.
Jun 05 21:54:10 <gentooer> luke-jr, an n800
Jun 05 21:54:20 <luke-jr> *Nowhere* does anyone claim N810 has 3D acceleration
Jun 05 21:54:30 <luke-jr> gentooer: cool, got Gentoo installed already?
Jun 05 21:54:31 <mib_9fs00m> why do nokia relase prodcuts that are not ready
Jun 05 21:54:34 <lcuk> errr i thought it had it actually
Jun 05 21:54:34 <Jaffa> mib_9fs00m: Return it. If you're in the UK, and you bought it online, and less than 2 weeks ago - you can get a full refund (as I said above)
Jun 05 21:54:44 <lcuk> i read what system on die chipset it had
Jun 05 21:54:47 <lcuk> and it had powervr
Jun 05 21:54:49 <luke-jr> -.-
Jun 05 21:54:52 <mib_9fs00m> i think i will
Jun 05 21:55:04 <lcuk> that was my first impression
Jun 05 21:55:07 <gentooer> luke-jr, nah i don't think i'll be doing that anytime soon. n800 is mostly stock. gentoo is only on my desktop
Jun 05 21:55:17 <mib_9fs00m> yes it has power Vr and lot more, which nokia just chose to forget
Jun 05 21:55:18 <luke-jr> gentooer: boo, we need more users!
Jun 05 21:55:18 <lcuk> when i found out it didnt, i worked around the damage
Jun 05 21:55:45 <gentooer> luke-jr, you have gentoo on your n8x0?
Jun 05 21:55:52 <lcuk> mib_9fs00m, you are not a hardware designer, there were implementation specific reasons for the choice of framebuffer
Jun 05 21:55:54 <luke-jr> gentooer: indeed
Jun 05 21:56:02 <gentooer> wow, that's crazy..
Jun 05 21:56:15 <luke-jr> gentooer: 8 GB SD card is handy
Jun 05 21:56:18 <Stskeeps> mib_9fs00m: they didn't need 3d. :)
Jun 05 21:56:27 <luke-jr> upgrading kdelibs atm
Jun 05 21:56:31 <gentooer> luke-jr, any reason why? just to see if you could?
Jun 05 21:56:38 <mib_9fs00m> the bottom line is nokia have relased a product that is not ready to browse the web,
Jun 05 21:56:47 <luke-jr> gentooer: Maemo sucks, and Gentoo is my default for things I have physical access to
Jun 05 21:56:53 <Guest8048_411> Hello, where can I find a guide to install pb KDE in my N810 ?
Jun 05 21:56:59 <luke-jr> gentooer: and Gentoo is a lot easier to hack with
Jun 05 21:57:07 <luke-jr> Guest8048_411: pb?
Jun 05 21:57:16 <mib_9fs00m> does gentoo have 3d hardware enabled?
Jun 05 21:57:35 <lcuk> only if you enter the driver details manually, in hex
Jun 05 21:57:44 <luke-jr> mib_9fs00m: Linux doesn't support the 3D chip, so nothing does
Jun 05 21:57:46 <mib_9fs00m> so the answer is NO !
Jun 05 21:57:56 <luke-jr> Guest8048_411: http://slonopotamus.org/gentoo-on-n8x0
Jun 05 21:58:04 <lcuk> mib_9fs00m, it is linux
Jun 05 21:58:24 <mib_9fs00m> ofcourse linux supports 3d hardware
Jun 05 21:58:37 <lcuk> not everywhere
Jun 05 21:58:40 <mib_9fs00m> it just that nokia havent bothred incuding it
Jun 05 21:58:59 <VDVsx> Guest8048_411, try google :P
Jun 05 21:59:17 <tank-man> I love the 3d support in Internet Explorer :)
Jun 05 21:59:34 <luke-jr> mib_9fs00m: Linux doesnt' support PowerVR
Jun 05 21:59:37 <mib_9fs00m> Maemo is biggest pile of crap ive ever seen
Jun 05 21:59:50 <luke-jr> actually, who asked about browsers with 3D support earlier?
Jun 05 21:59:58 <mib_9fs00m> i did
Jun 05 22:00:04 <luke-jr> not you, someone with a clue
Jun 05 22:00:16 <Stskeeps> mib_9fs00m: yet it lasts several days on a battery when a XP phone dies after 2 hours..
Jun 05 22:00:23 <mib_9fs00m> hey i am using macbook pro, i think i have a clue
Jun 05 22:00:32 <luke-jr> cosmo: Firefox has 3D canvas support via OpenGL ES now
Jun 05 22:00:36 <Stskeeps> just because it says "pro" doesn't mean you are
Jun 05 22:00:37 <Stskeeps> :P
Jun 05 22:00:46 <luke-jr> Stskeeps: N810 lasts about 2 hours on battery ;)
Jun 05 22:00:52 <Stskeeps> luke-jr: in gentoo probably
Jun 05 22:00:59 <mib_9fs00m> n810 is crap
Jun 05 22:01:13 <lcuk> mib_9fs00m, as a macbook owner, wtf made you choose linux?  why didnt you just get iphone?
Jun 05 22:01:17 <luke-jr> Stskeeps: I suspect it would last longer if stupid BME didn't issue the shutdown command
Jun 05 22:01:28 <cosmo> luke-jr: via cairo backend or how?
Jun 05 22:01:33 <mib_9fs00m> becuase actually mac osx, is buily on free BSD
Jun 05 22:01:35 <lcuk> you could be fingerpainting for ages
Jun 05 22:01:44 <luke-jr> mib_9fs00m: that's myth
Jun 05 22:01:48 <mib_9fs00m> which is linux
Jun 05 22:01:53 <luke-jr> they
Jun 05 22:01:57 <luke-jr> and THAT is just insanity
Jun 05 22:01:58 <mib_9fs00m> no its not,
Jun 05 22:02:09 <luke-jr> fact 1: Mac OS X is NOT built on FreeBSD
Jun 05 22:02:15 <luke-jr> fact 2: FreeBSD is completely unrelated to Linux
Jun 05 22:02:23 <mib_9fs00m> its built in berkley
Jun 05 22:02:32 <luke-jr> mib_9fs00m: Mac OS X is built on NeXTStep
Jun 05 22:02:37 <mib_9fs00m> lol
Jun 05 22:02:46 <mib_9fs00m> wtf Neststep
Jun 05 22:02:52 <lcuk> mib_9fs00m, what did you grow up owning?
Jun 05 22:02:54 * lbt watches the buns
Jun 05 22:02:58 <mib_9fs00m> never heard of it
Jun 05 22:03:02 <lcuk> whats your favorite machine
Jun 05 22:03:21 <Macer> heh
Jun 05 22:03:24 <cosmo> afk coding something useful. looks like this channel has been trolled..
Jun 05 22:03:26 <mib_9fs00m> imac 24 inch alu
Jun 05 22:03:29 <luke-jr> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nextstep
Jun 05 22:03:33 <mib_9fs00m> which i own too
Jun 05 22:03:34 * lbt waits for "did too".... wonders what the book on luke-jr is?
Jun 05 22:03:45 <tank-man> lol
Jun 05 22:03:46 <Macer> nextstep is what jobbs made after he got forced out
Jun 05 22:03:50 <luke-jr> lbt: ⁇?
Jun 05 22:03:51 <lcuk> have you had any other hand helds
Jun 05 22:03:55 <Macer> was actually pretty good
Jun 05 22:04:12 <mib_9fs00m> yes, ive had wm2003, wm5, wm6, which are all better
Jun 05 22:04:15 <luke-jr> Macer: OS X is Nextstep w/ rename and theme change
Jun 05 22:04:21 <Macer> heh
Jun 05 22:04:46 <Macer> they renamed it so the 3rd party manufacturers couldnt use os9 anymore
Jun 05 22:04:52 <lcuk> k, linux is built by lazy programmers
Jun 05 22:04:58 <mib_9fs00m> luke are you mac user
Jun 05 22:05:03 <tank-man> mib_9fs00m, sounds like your problem is the websites you want to visit are too complex
Jun 05 22:05:06 <luke-jr> mib_9fs00m: no, Apple sucks
Jun 05 22:05:07 <lcuk> they do what they need to do, but leave dusty corners
Jun 05 22:05:12 <Macer> the lic was that they can use os9 which is why they remade it and called it os x
Jun 05 22:05:40 <luke-jr> I would buy Apple hardware if they still used PowerPC
Jun 05 22:05:46 <luke-jr> but now they use x86, which is crap
Jun 05 22:05:50 <Macer> me too
Jun 05 22:05:53 <Macer> :(
Jun 05 22:05:53 <luke-jr> no reason to get Apple anymore
Jun 05 22:06:01 <Macer> agreed
Jun 05 22:06:10 <mib_9fs00m> power pc, was good, but going to intel, had opened up windows to mac
Jun 05 22:06:17 <VDVsx> luke-jr, nextstep is based in BSD linux, lol
Jun 05 22:06:19 <luke-jr> mib_9fs00m: Windows sucks, I won't touch it
Jun 05 22:06:28 <Macer> bsd linux?
Jun 05 22:06:36 <Macer> uhm
Jun 05 22:06:39 <luke-jr> VDVsx: yeah, maybe a decade before OS X
Jun 05 22:06:51 <VDVsx> Macer, *unix
Jun 05 22:06:56 <luke-jr> VDVsx: no relation to FreeBSD at all tho
Jun 05 22:07:04 <mib_9fs00m> you have admit it, mac osx, kicks, windows into touch
Jun 05 22:07:12 <Macer> it uses a modified mach kernel
Jun 05 22:07:19 <luke-jr> mib_9fs00m: I admit both Apple and Microsoft are evil, and Windows doesn't even work decent
Jun 05 22:07:21 <mib_9fs00m> yes thats right
Jun 05 22:07:31 <Macer> probably the same nextstep used 15 yrs ago =)
Jun 05 22:07:34 <luke-jr> but Apple is even more evil than Microsoft
Jun 05 22:07:52 <mib_9fs00m> all big players are evil
Jun 05 22:07:55 <Macer> luke-jr: that isnt a bad thing
Jun 05 22:08:00 <luke-jr> Apple releases open source because they are legally required to
Jun 05 22:08:08 <luke-jr> but Apple really wants closed source AND closed hardware
Jun 05 22:08:14 <luke-jr> Microsoft is at least for open hardware
Jun 05 22:08:33 <Macer> personally i think the failure of a realistic linus pc foothold is its inability to be a common structure
Jun 05 22:08:39 <Macer> linux
Jun 05 22:08:39 <VDVsx> luke-jr, yes, I read unix instead of freebsd, you are right :P
Jun 05 22:08:47 <mib_9fs00m> you can get the source code for mac osx. but not for windows ???, go figure
Jun 05 22:09:03 <Macer> most of osx =) not all
Jun 05 22:09:07 <luke-jr> Macer: the goal is a diverse OS market, not a single "Linux" takeover
Jun 05 22:09:19 <luke-jr> mib_9fs00m: you can't get the source code for OSX
Jun 05 22:09:25 <EdLin> mib_9fs00m: got the source to iTunes, Quicktime, Quartz, and the GUI in general?
Jun 05 22:09:29 <luke-jr> mib_9fs00m: just for the parts Apple is legally required to release
Jun 05 22:09:33 <Macer> luke-jr: i will give you small portable niche markets
Jun 05 22:09:50 <luke-jr> Microsoft also releases small bits and pieces of code
Jun 05 22:09:54 <Macer> but the "distro" system will neither take over windows nor osx
Jun 05 22:10:04 <mib_9fs00m> you can devolp for apple, and they will give the code
Jun 05 22:10:26 <Macer> it is too unstructured with constant competition within itself
Jun 05 22:10:32 <luke-jr> Macer: part of the problem is this "distro" mindset
Jun 05 22:11:00 <luke-jr> people need to let Linux move back into the background where it belongs
Jun 05 22:11:05 <luke-jr> we don't use Linux
Jun 05 22:11:15 <Macer> i suppose. everybody knows debian is the best one anyways.
Jun 05 22:11:15 <luke-jr> we use Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Fedora, Gentoo, Mandriva, etc
Jun 05 22:11:21 * Macer hides =)
Jun 05 22:11:33 <luke-jr> or Debian ;)
Jun 05 22:11:37 <Macer> luke. isnt there a count?
Jun 05 22:11:44 <Macer> i bet it is up to 50
Jun 05 22:11:48 <Macer> or more
Jun 05 22:11:52 <mib_9fs00m> linux, is the kernal, all the distros, do is add pretty icons and desktops
Jun 05 22:11:54 <luke-jr> uh, it's been way over 100 for a while
Jun 05 22:12:03 <Macer> mib_9fs00m: agreed
Jun 05 22:12:06 <luke-jr> mib_9fs00m: Linux is the insignificant kernel
Jun 05 22:12:16 <Macer> lol
Jun 05 22:12:20 <mib_9fs00m> luke, you talk crap
Jun 05 22:12:26 <Macer> it is significant
Jun 05 22:12:30 <luke-jr> mib_9fs00m: Linux can be replaced at a moment's notice
Jun 05 22:12:39 <luke-jr> the desktops are far more essential
Jun 05 22:12:40 <Macer> otherwise it wouldnt be called a linux distro
Jun 05 22:12:47 <jaska> the desktop environments are mostly garbage
Jun 05 22:12:55 <jaska> including the closed ones (windows, osx)
Jun 05 22:12:56 <luke-jr> Macer: it's only called a "linux distro" by noobs and marketting
Jun 05 22:13:06 <mib_9fs00m> luke, the kernal is what contols everthing, incuding the hardware
Jun 05 22:13:14 <Macer> luke-jr: =) you mean the masses?
Jun 05 22:13:14 <luke-jr> mib_9fs00m: you mean only the hardware
Jun 05 22:13:17 <luke-jr> Macer: yes
Jun 05 22:13:23 <Macer> case closed
Jun 05 22:13:26 <luke-jr> but in reality
Jun 05 22:13:31 <luke-jr> put a FreeBSD kernel in there
Jun 05 22:13:39 <luke-jr> and as long as the hardware is supported, nobody will notice the difference
Jun 05 22:13:47 <Macer> true
Jun 05 22:14:05 <Macer> most mac users dont know wtf a kernel is
Jun 05 22:14:05 <mib_9fs00m> supers users would noitce
Jun 05 22:14:22 <Macer> they just know thei iphone and ipod work with their mac
Jun 05 22:14:22 <luke-jr> mib_9fs00m: only kernel developers would notice
Jun 05 22:14:25 <luke-jr> not even superusers
Jun 05 22:14:43 <Macer> luke-jr: yes they would
Jun 05 22:14:53 <tank-man> thats cause users interact with programs, not system calls and apis
Jun 05 22:14:56 <luke-jr> ok, superusers might *notice* if they have a reason to go poking around with kernel modules
Jun 05 22:15:06 <mib_9fs00m> linux is better than windows, and osx, is better than them all
Jun 05 22:15:12 <luke-jr> but that indicates a hardware problem, which was an already asserted "not a problem"
Jun 05 22:15:24 <luke-jr> tank-man: exactly
Jun 05 22:15:29 <Macer> strong users are attracted to powerful operating systems that offer the most bang for the hardware buck. they will research what makes it
Jun 05 22:15:37 <mib_9fs00m> luke what o/s do you like?
Jun 05 22:15:46 <luke-jr> mib_9fs00m: I don't like any. They all suck.
Jun 05 22:15:49 <luke-jr> I use Gentoo and Debian.
Jun 05 22:15:51 <mib_9fs00m> lol
Jun 05 22:15:55 <luke-jr> with KDE on desktop.
Jun 05 22:15:57 <MiskaX> as long as kernel implements suitable syscalls for implementing POSIX things are pretty fine...
Jun 05 22:15:59 <mib_9fs00m> thats lnux, thenn
Jun 05 22:16:11 <luke-jr> mib_9fs00m: both Gentoo and Debian support using a FreeBSD kernel
Jun 05 22:16:14 <Macer> mib_9fs00m: osx is nice, but i dont care much for stock aqua
Jun 05 22:16:18 <mib_9fs00m> i use, ubuntu, with compiz fussion, so there
Jun 05 22:16:22 <Macer> lol
Jun 05 22:16:28 <`0660> :P
Jun 05 22:16:31 <Macer> kde + kwin isnt too bad
Jun 05 22:16:39 <luke-jr> Macer: Plasma is pissing me off
Jun 05 22:16:46 <mib_9fs00m> lol
Jun 05 22:17:00 <Macer> personally i like it more than aqua
Jun 05 22:17:03 <luke-jr> and KDEPIM is pure idiocy
Jun 05 22:17:14 <luke-jr> Macer: Plasma's problem isn't UI, it's RAM bloat
Jun 05 22:17:20 <Macer> i'l give you that one ;)
Jun 05 22:17:27 <Macer> the kdepim
Jun 05 22:17:30 <luke-jr> Macer: plasma is THE biggest memory eater on my N810
Jun 05 22:17:35 <mib_9fs00m> you need 3d hardware, to use compiz fussion, case closed
Jun 05 22:17:37 <Macer> as far as bloat goes.. who cares?
Jun 05 22:17:41 <luke-jr> mib_9fs00m: Compiz is useless crap
Jun 05 22:17:50 <Macer> enviroments go along with capable hardware
Jun 05 22:17:57 <luke-jr> Macer: 128 MB of RAM isn't enough to afford bloat
Jun 05 22:18:09 <Macer> a 1tb hdd is like $130?
Jun 05 22:18:16 <Macer> 4G of ram?
Jun 05 22:18:21 <mib_9fs00m> yes, you need atleast 512mb gddr3
Jun 05 22:18:22 <Macer> less than $100?
Jun 05 22:18:30 <luke-jr> Macer: 4G of RAM installed in a handheld would be far more than $100
Jun 05 22:18:47 <luke-jr> is someone here capable of kicking mib_9fs00m?
Jun 05 22:18:47 <Macer> well. handhelds are a different story
Jun 05 22:19:05 <Macer> which is why i called portables the niche market
Jun 05 22:19:15 <Macer> linus does have quite a foothold on it
Jun 05 22:19:23 <Macer> linux (damnit)
Jun 05 22:19:34 <mib_9fs00m> nokia should stick to phones, and leave the tablet to people who know what there doing
Jun 05 22:19:51 <Macer> ok. now that was just ignorant
Jun 05 22:19:56 <luke-jr> mib_9fs00m: as much as the N810 sucks, the only thing I've ever seen better in the market was a Zaurus
Jun 05 22:19:58 <parigaudi> hi
Jun 05 22:20:01 <luke-jr> and Sharp stopped making them
Jun 05 22:20:10 <mib_9fs00m> lo, ha ha
Jun 05 22:20:18 <Macer> pfft. neetons!
Jun 05 22:20:22 <mib_9fs00m> you joking right
Jun 05 22:20:23 <Macer> newtons
Jun 05 22:20:27 <Macer> =)
Jun 05 22:20:32 <luke-jr> and with my idea/patent, a SmartQ is quite competitive
Jun 05 22:20:55 <Macer> nokia needs to do something with symbian and fast
Jun 05 22:20:57 <parigaudi> i'm just installing a maemo sdk on a recent kubuntu, and now read that there might be problems with the xephyr x server on that distro?
Jun 05 22:20:57 <mib_9fs00m> i prefer the teaxas intrusments scienttific calc
Jun 05 22:21:03 <parigaudi> jaunty that is?
Jun 05 22:21:06 <Macer> they are letting it get left behind
Jun 05 22:21:13 <luke-jr> parigaudi: forget Maemo :þ
Jun 05 22:21:27 <mib_9fs00m> how can you install gentoo on n810
Jun 05 22:21:28 <luke-jr> mib_9fs00m: SmartQ is cheaper than the N810, get one
Jun 05 22:21:35 <parigaudi> luke-jr: and what would i  use instead
Jun 05 22:21:37 <luke-jr> mib_9fs00m: the same way I install Gentoo on my desktop
Jun 05 22:21:39 <tank-man> mib_9fs00m, maybe in a chroot
Jun 05 22:21:41 <luke-jr> parigaudi: Gentoo or Mae
Jun 05 22:21:44 <luke-jr> Mer*
Jun 05 22:21:51 <Macer> parigaudi: you might want to wait around for johnx or stskeeps.
Jun 05 22:22:01 <Macer> they do the mer stuff
Jun 05 22:22:07 <mib_9fs00m> ok, thanks
Jun 05 22:22:12 <luke-jr> parigaudi: if you can handle Gentoo, I can help with that ;)
Jun 05 22:22:25 <mib_9fs00m> can you get 3d working
Jun 05 22:22:26 <jaska> no kbd on those :(
Jun 05 22:22:33 <luke-jr> jaska: hence my patent
Jun 05 22:22:47 <luke-jr> jaska: Bluetooth keyboard attachment to turn it into a clamshell
Jun 05 22:23:06 <parigaudi> thx Macer and luke-jr
Jun 05 22:23:09 <mib_9fs00m> im going to smash my n810 with hammer, and post in you tube !
Jun 05 22:23:15 <luke-jr> mib_9fs00m: so much for 200gbp
Jun 05 22:23:15 <Macer> lol
Jun 05 22:23:24 <Macer> have fun =)
Jun 05 22:23:28 <luke-jr> parigaudi: http://slonopotamus.org/gentoo-on-n8x0
Jun 05 22:23:28 <mib_9fs00m> i will
Jun 05 22:23:39 <luke-jr> mib_9fs00m: I would much prefer giving you money to ship it to me
Jun 05 22:23:44 <Macer> bbl. going to work on something. my son is taking a nap!
Jun 05 22:23:53 <mib_9fs00m> how much would you pay
Jun 05 22:23:58 <luke-jr> mib_9fs00m: shipping
Jun 05 22:24:00 <mib_9fs00m> its 2 days old
Jun 05 22:24:17 <tank-man> 2days old, lol return it to the store and take any restocking fee incured
Jun 05 22:24:26 <mib_9fs00m> i will accept 80gbp for it
Jun 05 22:24:29 <tank-man> and stop bitching
Jun 05 22:24:34 <luke-jr> mib_9fs00m: I won't spend 80gbp on a N810
Jun 05 22:24:48 <luke-jr> 80gbp could get me a new SmartQ
Jun 05 22:24:53 <mib_9fs00m> is that becuase its crap device
Jun 05 22:24:56 <luke-jr> yes
Jun 05 22:25:07 <mib_9fs00m> so why are you defending it
Jun 05 22:25:13 <luke-jr> I'm not. :þ
Jun 05 22:25:29 <mib_9fs00m> im getting hammer, ready
Jun 05 22:25:40 <Stskeeps> troll, heh
Jun 05 22:25:59 <luke-jr> mib_9fs00m: you'd rather smash it than accept 10gbp?
Jun 05 22:26:16 <parigaudi> ahm actually what i need is just an easy way to build qt apps for my n810
Jun 05 22:26:28 <luke-jr> parigaudi: yeah, I do that on my N810
Jun 05 22:26:29 <luke-jr> :þ
Jun 05 22:26:38 <mib_9fs00m> luke you need n810. why
Jun 05 22:26:54 <luke-jr> mib_9fs00m: I don't need another one.
Jun 05 22:27:07 <luke-jr> but for 10gbp + shipping, maybe my wife can play with one
Jun 05 22:27:08 <mib_9fs00m> someone said they needed it
Jun 05 22:27:14 <mib_9fs00m> lol
Jun 05 22:27:19 <lbt> parigaudi: 'easy' or fast?
Jun 05 22:27:42 <mib_9fs00m> im sure your wife can find something else to play with,
Jun 05 22:28:06 <parigaudi> lbt: could you tell me more about both options before i have to choose?
Jun 05 22:28:21 <luke-jr> mib_9fs00m: yeah, I have just the thing!
Jun 05 22:28:27 <mib_9fs00m> lol
Jun 05 22:28:48 <luke-jr> mib_9fs00m: but if you want 10gbp for the N810, she can have that too
Jun 05 22:28:51 <luke-jr> if not, np
Jun 05 22:28:58 <lbt> Mer has a builder which you could use. It's qemu based and works on Ubuntu. The binaries/debs are fine on Diablo.
Jun 05 22:28:58 <mib_9fs00m> i m going to smah it tiny pieces and then mail it back to nokia
Jun 05 22:29:22 <luke-jr> mib_9fs00m: that's like negative 10gbp
Jun 05 22:29:31 <lbt> there's no xephyr
Jun 05 22:29:39 <mib_9fs00m> 10gbp is nothing
Jun 05 22:29:44 <mib_9fs00m> sorry
Jun 05 22:29:47 <lbt> so if you want to debug / run too then it's no good
Jun 05 22:29:54 <lbt> mib_9fs00m: £12.50
Jun 05 22:30:06 <luke-jr> aww, outbid
Jun 05 22:30:13 <mib_9fs00m> 80gbp, and you can have it
Jun 05 22:30:16 <luke-jr> mib_9fs00m: 10gbp is 20gbp more than negative 10gbp
Jun 05 22:30:40 <lbt> £12.50 + a Zaurus
Jun 05 22:30:44 <luke-jr> lbt: @*($&(@#*
Jun 05 22:30:50 <mib_9fs00m> i could ebay it, let some other poor sod suffer
Jun 05 22:30:52 <luke-jr> which Zaurus is that, BTW?
Jun 05 22:31:05 <tank-man> can you trust a troll to mail you the n810 after you send money tho :)
Jun 05 22:31:05 <lbt> it has a blue suede case!!
Jun 05 22:31:14 <mib_9fs00m> wow really
Jun 05 22:31:21 <luke-jr> tank-man: I'm glad for PayPal disputes in this case.
Jun 05 22:31:37 <luke-jr> lbt: which Zaurus is that, BTW?
Jun 05 22:31:48 <lbt> original and best!
Jun 05 22:31:54 <luke-jr> original..?
Jun 05 22:31:54 <lbt> 5500..... SL
Jun 05 22:31:56 <mib_9fs00m> im going to feel much better, whith the hammer approach
Jun 05 22:31:57 <luke-jr> OMFG
Jun 05 22:31:59 <luke-jr> LOL
Jun 05 22:32:01 <luke-jr> ancient
Jun 05 22:32:17 <lbt> parigaudi: ping me tomorrow if you like
Jun 05 22:32:28 <parigaudi> ok thx
Jun 05 22:32:39 <luke-jr> mib_9fs00m: and be out 200gbp
Jun 05 22:32:40 <mib_9fs00m> right on the screen  nokia logo,
Jun 05 22:32:48 <luke-jr> 210gbp after you ship it to Nokia
Jun 05 22:33:07 <luke-jr> sell it to me for 10gbp and get off with only 190gbp loss!
Jun 05 22:33:13 <mib_9fs00m> luke if you want it, 80gbp, and its yours
Jun 05 22:33:20 <luke-jr> mib_9fs00m: it isn't worth 80gbp
Jun 05 22:33:23 <mib_9fs00m> i paid 200gbp for it
Jun 05 22:33:27 <luke-jr> like I said, I could get a new SmartQ for 80gbp
Jun 05 22:33:36 <luke-jr> mib_9fs00m: not my fault you got ripped off
Jun 05 22:33:40 <mib_9fs00m> what is smart Q
Jun 05 22:33:49 <luke-jr> mib_9fs00m: SmartQ is what the N800 was supposed to be
Jun 05 22:34:10 <mib_9fs00m> does it have 3d hardware, that it used
Jun 05 22:34:25 <luke-jr> it has 3D hardware, but there's no drivers yet
Jun 05 22:34:31 <luke-jr> but the spec is open, so it seems likely
Jun 05 22:34:35 <mib_9fs00m> lol, same thing
Jun 05 22:34:48 <luke-jr> http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2009/03/smartq5ubuntu-1.jpg
Jun 05 22:34:58 <luke-jr> mib_9fs00m: PowerVR spec is not available, so nobody can write drivers
Jun 05 22:35:01 <luke-jr> except TI
Jun 05 22:35:09 <mib_9fs00m> why isnt it available
Jun 05 22:35:14 <luke-jr> TI won't share it
Jun 05 22:35:20 <luke-jr> SmartQ's spec is open, so anyone can write a driver
Jun 05 22:35:36 <mib_9fs00m> Ti, so why did they make the dam chip
Jun 05 22:35:49 <luke-jr> mib_9fs00m: TI wants a lot more $$$ to use 3D
Jun 05 22:35:56 <luke-jr> or somethign stupid like that
Jun 05 22:36:02 <mib_9fs00m> and nokia, wont pay
Jun 05 22:36:15 <luke-jr> mib_9fs00m: ever wonder why the N810 is cheaper than the iPhone
Jun 05 22:36:17 <luke-jr> ?
Jun 05 22:36:26 <mib_9fs00m> ok, im getting th hammer !
Jun 05 22:36:26 <Stskeeps> reason why maemo doesnt have 3d in 4.0 is simple
Jun 05 22:36:29 <Stskeeps> gpl
Jun 05 22:36:49 <Stskeeps> thats why we cant have nice things
Jun 05 22:37:00 <luke-jr> GPL is inherent in nice things
Jun 05 22:37:06 <luke-jr> well, not really
Jun 05 22:37:09 <luke-jr> but the terms
Jun 05 22:37:16 <luke-jr> if it isn't open, it might as well not exist
Jun 05 22:37:32 <Stskeeps> yeah, and i am looking forward to open 3d kernel driver
Jun 05 22:37:36 <mib_9fs00m> the n8XX will have 3d hardware, and it used the same chip
Jun 05 22:37:45 <mib_9fs00m> so what the deal there?
Jun 05 22:38:06 <luke-jr> mib_9fs00m: ?
Jun 05 22:38:15 <luke-jr> you mean the N900?
Jun 05 22:38:21 <luke-jr> it doesn't use teh same chip
Jun 05 22:38:28 <mib_9fs00m> the nest N810, will have 3d hardware
Jun 05 22:38:31 <mib_9fs00m> next
Jun 05 22:38:35 <luke-jr> it doesn't use the same chip
Jun 05 22:38:43 <luke-jr> RX-51 is OMAP *3*
Jun 05 22:38:45 <mib_9fs00m> what chip will it use
Jun 05 22:38:47 <luke-jr> N810 is OMAP *2)
Jun 05 22:39:06 <mib_9fs00m> but its still the same chip, just newer model
Jun 05 22:39:09 <Stskeeps> nop
Jun 05 22:39:13 <Stskeeps> mbx vs sgx
Jun 05 22:39:18 <luke-jr> um, no
Jun 05 22:39:29 <luke-jr> "newer model" means "entirely different chip" in many cases
Jun 05 22:39:34 <mib_9fs00m> is this chip open
Jun 05 22:39:37 <Stskeeps> yes
Jun 05 22:39:44 <luke-jr> heck, even "same model" could be entirely different for some things
Jun 05 22:39:48 <luke-jr> Stskeeps: it is?
Jun 05 22:40:05 <Stskeeps> in terms of oss kernel driver, closed libraries supporting gl es
Jun 05 22:40:12 <mib_9fs00m> dam, i should have waited
Jun 05 22:40:30 <luke-jr> sigh, X11 should be GPL too :/
Jun 05 22:40:45 <luke-jr> Stskeeps: anyhow, I took that as teh chip being open (spec)
Jun 05 22:40:50 <luke-jr> you're just talking 3D driver
Jun 05 22:40:53 <Stskeeps> but i could argue with luke-jr all night about definition of open
Jun 05 22:41:01 <mib_9fs00m> this is all bollox, n810 should use the all the hardware avialable to it
Jun 05 22:41:07 <Stskeeps> bbl sleep
Jun 05 22:41:12 <luke-jr> mib_9fs00m: I agree, but it doesn't.
Jun 05 22:41:31 <mib_9fs00m> thats such a shame,
Jun 05 22:41:40 <luke-jr> mib_9fs00m: consider yourself one of many people who regrets their purchase
Jun 05 22:41:42 <Stskeeps> mib_9fs00m: why cant i use 3d in linux on iphone?
Jun 05 22:42:08 <mib_9fs00m> iphone has got 3d hardware, which is used
Jun 05 22:42:29 <luke-jr> mib_9fs00m: while I'm not happy with the N810, I am at least trying to do something with it, so if you can't find a use, I wouldn't mind taking yours for a reasonable price
Jun 05 22:42:45 <lcuk> mib_9fs00m, iphone sucks, its so low resolution
Jun 05 22:42:55 <luke-jr> but it's not very usable and I don't need it, so "reasonable" is currently 10gbp :þ
Jun 05 22:43:02 <mib_9fs00m> have you seen how good the GUI looks
Jun 05 22:43:17 <Stskeeps> its kinda simplistic
Jun 05 22:43:22 <lcuk> yeah, like i said though i love the ui on my 810
Jun 05 22:43:31 <Stskeeps> i like my xterm.
Jun 05 22:43:41 <luke-jr> I don't mind console mode, but KDE is nice
Jun 05 22:43:45 <mib_9fs00m> really, its the worst GUI i have ever seen
Jun 05 22:43:47 <lcuk> smart, quick intuitive and not one bit of real 3d in sight
Jun 05 22:43:53 <Stskeeps> and not having to jailbreak
Jun 05 22:44:05 <luke-jr> mib_9fs00m: actually, I do like Hildon's GUI
Jun 05 22:44:12 <luke-jr> just not the implementation
Jun 05 22:44:12 <mib_9fs00m> if you could jailbreak the dam n810, i would
Jun 05 22:44:14 <parigaudi> in the communication section of the app manager, i find openssh-server, openssh-client and openssh. what is the openssh package if the server and client are in different packages?
Jun 05 22:44:19 <lcuk> mib_9fs00m, you have root
Jun 05 22:44:25 <lcuk> wtf do you need jailbreak for?
Jun 05 22:44:26 <tank-man> jailbreak the n810?
Jun 05 22:44:28 <luke-jr> lcuk: not by default
Jun 05 22:44:37 <mib_9fs00m> one good thing about n810, is the VPN and RDP
Jun 05 22:44:38 <lcuk> oh sorry, open the extras repo
Jun 05 22:44:44 <luke-jr> parigaudi: 'openssh' is a metapkg depending on both
Jun 05 22:44:44 <Stskeeps> dude, rootsh
Jun 05 22:44:57 <parigaudi> oh ok thx luke-jr
Jun 05 22:45:05 <Stskeeps> its really open to hacking
Jun 05 22:45:17 <luke-jr> unless you want to use the GPS
Jun 05 22:45:18 <mib_9fs00m> i thought it was closed
Jun 05 22:45:21 <Stskeeps> no
Jun 05 22:45:23 <tank-man> nokia gives you a tool to flash and toggle r&d mode for root
Jun 05 22:45:41 <mib_9fs00m> r&d whats that?
Jun 05 22:45:49 <Noma> research & development
Jun 05 22:46:04 <mib_9fs00m> mmmmmmmmmmmm ok
Jun 05 22:46:04 <Stskeeps> heck, how would luke-jr run gentoo on it if it was closed?
Jun 05 22:46:04 <Macer> wtf
Jun 05 22:46:16 <luke-jr> Stskeeps: I jailbroke
Jun 05 22:46:41 <mib_9fs00m> im going to look on youtube, and see how gentoo runs,on n810
Jun 05 22:46:46 <luke-jr> LOL
Jun 05 22:46:52 <luke-jr> mib_9fs00m: you won't find anythin on YouTube
Jun 05 22:47:02 <luke-jr> there's only 3 people who have got Gentoo on N8x0
Jun 05 22:47:03 <mib_9fs00m> why not
Jun 05 22:47:08 <luke-jr> and only 2 on N810
Jun 05 22:47:17 <mib_9fs00m> why so few
Jun 05 22:47:18 <luke-jr> and none of us have bothered for YouTube
Jun 05 22:47:23 <luke-jr> mib_9fs00m: it's not simple to do
Jun 05 22:47:31 <luke-jr> http://slonopotamus.org/gentoo-on-n8x0 <-- instructions
Jun 05 22:48:12 <mib_9fs00m> NO sound, wtf is that good for
Jun 05 22:48:22 <mib_9fs00m> cant even listen to music
Jun 05 22:48:31 <luke-jr> actually, I got sound working
Jun 05 22:48:36 <luke-jr> but then keyboard doesn't work :<
Jun 05 22:48:37 <lcuk> mib_9fs00m, do you troll the lego forums complaining that the blocks dont come in the shape of houses and trains?
Jun 05 22:48:41 <mib_9fs00m> lol
Jun 05 22:48:56 <luke-jr> might have sound+keyboard in a few minutes actually
Jun 05 22:49:03 <luke-jr> waiting for kdelibs to finish installing first
Jun 05 22:49:19 <mib_9fs00m> this device is really rubbish, im not going to buy the n900, once bitten , twice shy
Jun 05 22:49:35 <luke-jr> mib_9fs00m: like I said, grab a SmartQ ☺
Jun 05 22:50:04 <mib_9fs00m> yes, still not 3d hardware on smar q
Jun 05 22:50:20 <luke-jr> it has the hardware, just nobody wrote drivers YET
Jun 05 22:50:25 <luke-jr> but I think inevitable
Jun 05 22:50:35 <luke-jr> Stskeeps even has discounts for someone who will do it
Jun 05 22:50:51 <luke-jr> Stskeeps: I do presume a competent person writing 3D drivers is guaranteed one :þ
Jun 05 22:51:06 <mib_9fs00m> i think the best device is wifi- somthing, aquous
Jun 05 22:51:38 <mib_9fs00m> what its called?
Jun 05 22:51:42 <Jaffa> mib_9fs00m: If 3D is your ultimate requirement, RX-51/Rover will do it
Jun 05 22:52:08 <mib_9fs00m> im not just after 3d, i want 3d, and good GUI, with lots of apps
Jun 05 22:52:46 <luke-jr> Jaffa: will RX-51 do full (more than ES) OpenGL?
Jun 05 22:53:16 <mib_9fs00m> openGl is pretty much all you need
Jun 05 22:53:17 <Jaffa> luke-jr: No, but there's talk of a (limited) wrapper
Jun 05 22:53:32 <luke-jr> mib_9fs00m: iPhone doesn't support OpenGL
Jun 05 22:53:47 <mib_9fs00m> iphone has its own 3d drivers
Jun 05 22:53:54 <luke-jr> OpenGL ES
Jun 05 22:54:01 <luke-jr> not full OpenGL
Jun 05 22:54:04 <mib_9fs00m> its doesnt need need opengl
Jun 05 22:54:11 <luke-jr> you're an idiot
Jun 05 22:54:17 <Noma> troll
Jun 05 22:54:24 <luke-jr> nothing needs OpenGL except game consoles
Jun 05 22:54:43 <mib_9fs00m> windows can use open GL
Jun 05 22:54:50 <luke-jr> Windows is crap
Jun 05 22:54:54 <tank-man> mib_9fs00m, go buy an itouch or iphone and get it over with. you know you want it
Jun 05 22:55:03 <luke-jr> haha
Jun 05 22:55:03 <mib_9fs00m> ive got one
Jun 05 22:55:23 <Noma> how about installing gentoo on iphone and making a video about it on youtube?
Jun 05 22:55:33 <mib_9fs00m> i thought the nokia n810 was somthing really good
Jun 05 22:55:33 <luke-jr> Noma: get me an iPhone and I will
Jun 05 22:55:48 <luke-jr> mib_9fs00m: it's better than iPhone at least
Jun 05 22:55:51 <mib_9fs00m> i belived all the hype
Jun 05 22:56:04 <mib_9fs00m> noway, how can you even think that
Jun 05 22:56:09 <tank-man> hype? lol ive yet to see a commercial on tv for n810
Jun 05 22:56:31 <mib_9fs00m> just look on nokia n810 homepage
Jun 05 22:56:32 <luke-jr> mib_9fs00m: because iPhone is even worse
Jun 05 22:57:04 <mib_9fs00m> iphone is much better than n810,
Jun 05 22:57:21 <tank-man> thanks for the info
Jun 05 22:57:27 <mib_9fs00m> even the ipod 80gb is better
Jun 05 22:57:56 <mib_9fs00m> n810 has the slowest GUI ever, it crashes, it is very slow,
Jun 05 22:58:55 <Jaffa> mib_9fs00m: What was better 3 years ago?
Jun 05 22:59:07 <mib_9fs00m> if anyone think n810 is better device than iphone, i would have to disagree
Jun 05 22:59:12 <luke-jr> http://www.iphonelinux.org/ <-- status of Linux on iPhone
Jun 05 22:59:23 <tank-man> mib_9fs00m, n810 isnt a phone duh
Jun 05 22:59:51 <mib_9fs00m> iphone doesnt need linux, it is using all hardware to it full pottential
Jun 05 23:00:04 <mib_9fs00m> thats all i want the n810 to do
Jun 05 23:00:45 <luke-jr> mib_9fs00m: iPhoneOS is closed, and therefore might as well not exist
Jun 05 23:00:59 <luke-jr> actually
Jun 05 23:01:04 <Jaffa> mib_9fs00m: The only thing not being used on the N810s h/w is the PowerVR
Jun 05 23:01:06 <mib_9fs00m> iphone can be jailbroken,
Jun 05 23:01:06 <luke-jr> iPhone looks like it has the same SoC as the SmartQ
Jun 05 23:01:17 <luke-jr> Jaffa: and GPS, for practical purposes!
Jun 05 23:01:21 <mib_9fs00m> it has 1000;s of free apps
Jun 05 23:01:27 <luke-jr> mib_9fs00m: gratis, not free
Jun 05 23:01:37 <mib_9fs00m> most of them are
Jun 05 23:01:41 <parigaudi> 3~3~a propos phone: what's the sip client you would recommend for n810?
Jun 05 23:01:45 <Jaffa> luke-jr: Running your gpsdriver, perhaps. WFM
Jun 05 23:01:54 <mib_9fs00m> luke do you have iphone
Jun 05 23:02:00 <mib_9fs00m> have you ever used one
Jun 05 23:02:33 <luke-jr> nope
Jun 05 23:02:43 <mib_9fs00m> it uses, a very sophicated package manager
Jun 05 23:02:48 <Noma> i have used iphone for a week, and i can tell you i wouldn't change my n810 to it
Jun 05 23:02:53 <luke-jr> mib_9fs00m: if I don't have the source, it is worthless
Jun 05 23:02:58 <Noma> or i would, but then i'd sell the iphone and buy another n810
Jun 05 23:03:37 * Jaffa looks forward to having the accelerometers and 3d h/w for some simple fun games (a la Cube racer)
Jun 05 23:03:40 <luke-jr> lol
Jun 05 23:04:00 <mib_9fs00m> well you might, but i think the iphone is the device that all other manufactures try to emulate
Jun 05 23:04:07 <luke-jr> Jaffa: Nokia should hire me to write a real Location/Network framework XD
Jun 05 23:04:48 <luke-jr> Jaffa: or hire someone to do it, anyhow, doesn't need to be me I guess
Jun 05 23:05:08 <luke-jr> it should triangulate APs and plan to do fly-by data exchanges ;)
Jun 05 23:05:13 <Jaffa> mib_9fs00m: Perhaps. The App Store has been succesful; so imagine something 2x powerful in an open source ecosystem
Jun 05 23:05:42 <Noma> nokia's marketing managers answer to a journalist that asked about iphone selling over one million devices sometime ago is the best answer i've heard recently: "well, we have sold the same amount of phones today after the lunch"
Jun 05 23:05:59 <Jaffa> luke-jr: Loc. framework in fremantle's sparkly and new (and uses cell towers for AGPS)
Jun 05 23:06:20 <mib_9fs00m> you guys are all brainwashed
Jun 05 23:06:27 <luke-jr> but does it plan out WiFi access?
Jun 05 23:06:36 <mib_9fs00m> fuck nokia, this divice is pile of shit
Jun 05 23:06:39 <mib_9fs00m> bye !
Jun 05 23:06:44 <Jaffa> Noma: Yeah, but that misses the point in the iPhone's success. It can't be quite so easily dismissed
Jun 05 23:06:55 <luke-jr> so when it knows I've driving near an AP (it's navigating!), it counts down, connects, grabs any IMs waiting, and sends any IMs I have pending
Jun 05 23:07:34 <Jaffa> luke-jr: Whilst going past at 30mph? Doubt it. Would be cool.
Jun 05 23:07:45 <luke-jr> Jaffa: 60 mph ;)
Jun 05 23:07:52 <Jaffa> luke-jr: Nokia's answer would be always-on data via HSPA
Jun 05 23:07:53 <luke-jr> that's why it needs to plan it out
Jun 05 23:08:00 <luke-jr> begin transmitting even before it gets beacons
Jun 05 23:08:21 <luke-jr> oh, true, I guess that negates the AP exchange purpose to some degree
Jun 05 23:08:22 <luke-jr> >_<
Jun 05 23:08:56 <luke-jr> Jaffa: any idea if Nokia can get us a decent data plan from some provider?
Jun 05 23:09:03 <luke-jr> eg, no stupid 5 GB limit
Jun 05 23:09:04 <Jaffa> Hmm, can imagine a few problems (knowing limits of range vs. AP location), WPA key exchange etc.
Jun 05 23:09:12 <luke-jr> so we can run X11 apps remotely
Jun 05 23:09:13 <Noma> luke-jr: move to finland;)
Jun 05 23:09:30 <luke-jr> Jaffa: if there's WPA, chances are you can't just use it at random :þ
Jun 05 23:09:46 <Jaffa> luke-jr: No idea. The leak seemed to suggest a partnership with T-Mobile, but it'd still be "fair usage policy applies", I guess
Jun 05 23:10:03 <luke-jr> Noma: can't, prisoner
Jun 05 23:10:09 <Jaffa> luke-jr: I was assuming you meant an AP you were authed to
Jun 05 23:10:13 <luke-jr> Jaffa: aren't you with Nokia?
Jun 05 23:10:30 <Jaffa> luke-jr: Nope
Jun 05 23:10:39 <luke-jr> wonder how I confused that
Jun 05 23:10:51 <luke-jr> oh, maybe your bug-note attempt to justify closed GPS <.<
Jun 05 23:10:58 <Jaffa> Member of the community council, but have no financial relationship to Nokia
Jun 05 23:11:56 <Jaffa> luke-jr: Not justify it being closed (tho'  think it's TI); just saying you can't blame Nokia (too much) if you change the shipped gpsdriver and then it works less well
Jun 05 23:12:22 <luke-jr> Jaffa: I can blame Nokia for forcing me to change it blindly.
Jun 05 23:12:47 <luke-jr> if I wasn't blinded, I could do a much better job fixing it up
Jun 05 23:13:52 * Jaffa nods
Jun 05 23:14:00 <luke-jr> Jaffa: the unmodified gpsdriver won't work outside of Maemo, not even on Mer
Jun 05 23:18:25 <lcuk> Jaffa, wifi if in range, otherwise cell
Jun 05 23:18:28 <lcuk> would love that tbh
Jun 05 23:18:46 <luke-jr> happen to know the git cmd for "undo"?
Jun 05 23:19:01 <lcuk> git reset --force i think lol
Jun 05 23:19:27 <lcuk> that should roll back to the point of last something or other
Jun 05 23:19:51 <lcuk> ahh --hard
Jun 05 23:20:11 <lcuk> http://www.kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-reset.html
Jun 05 23:20:19 <luke-jr> thx
Jun 05 23:20:57 <luke-jr> this is why I prefer bzr ;)
Jun 05 23:21:07 <luke-jr> commands are more logical
Jun 05 23:22:43 <lcuk> luke-jr, always going forwards, just dont make changes that need rolling back :P
Jun 05 23:23:17 <luke-jr> lcuk: I was going to rename the gconf USE flag to agps, then realized there are multiple agps functions :þ
Jun 05 23:29:15 <Jaffa> luke-jr: Yes, I know about gpsdriver on Mer
Jun 06 00:43:57 <_Pit_Bull> Hello people ))
Jun 06 00:45:18 <_Pit_Bull> Who speaking Russian ?
Jun 06 00:47:45 <_Pit_Bull> Please say me , what another OS may installing on Nokia n8xx ?
Jun 06 00:48:53 <_Pit_Bull> !time
Jun 06 00:49:24 <b-man16> ~time
Jun 06 00:49:25 <infobot> rumour has it, time is 1 dimensional, or everlasting, an illusion, or 2009.06.06  0:49:25 GMT
Jun 06 00:50:39 <_Pit_Bull> thank you.
Jun 06 00:51:00 <b-man16> no problem :)
Jun 06 00:51:05 <Noma> and about the OS's: http://wiki.maemo.org/Alternative_operating_systems
Jun 06 00:51:33 <b-man16> yes?
Jun 06 00:51:33 <_Pit_Bull> thank you))
Jun 06 00:51:46 <_Pit_Bull> I am from Russia ))
Jun 06 00:52:20 <Noma> b-man16: 03:47:45 < _Pit_Bull> Please say me , what another OS may installing on Nokia n8xx ?
Jun 06 00:52:33 <Noma> seconds before you joined:)
Jun 06 00:52:48 <b-man16> ah, ok
Jun 06 00:54:37 <_Pit_Bull> I want buy Nokia n800 or n810, because i intresting some aspects.
Jun 06 00:56:22 <_Pit_Bull> cheat, i bad speaking english, sorry
Jun 06 00:56:25 <b-man16> *am interested ;)
Jun 06 00:56:42 <b-man16> it's ok :)
Jun 06 00:57:53 <_Pit_Bull> I write on Deplhi/Kylix . May i port my programs on maemo os ?
Jun 06 00:59:15 <b-man16> it should be possible
Jun 06 00:59:40 <b-man16> it makes since
Jun 06 00:59:58 <b-man16> *sense
Jun 06 01:00:27 <_Pit_Bull> i don't known what you say,sorry
Jun 06 01:02:19 <_Pit_Bull> thank you )) bye all
Jun 06 01:02:44 <Noma> well that was an interesting conversation
Jun 06 01:02:47 <b-man16> hmm :P
Jun 06 01:02:50 <b-man16> indeed
Jun 06 01:03:56 <b-man16> i was going to talk to him in russian using google translator, but he left before i could do so XD
Jun 06 01:04:06 <Noma> i was just thinking about it too:D
Jun 06 01:04:29 <b-man16> XD
Jun 06 01:04:56 <Noma> though i don't know how it translates into russian, at least finnish seems to be hard to it :p
Jun 06 01:06:09 <Noma> above line translated from finnish to english: Admittedly, I do not know how to reverse the Russian, at least in Finland seems to be difficult for it.
Jun 06 01:07:17 <b-man16> hmm
Jun 06 01:08:20 * b-man16 is running a javascript webserver on his tablet atm btw XD
Jun 06 01:08:34 <Noma> javascript webserver wtf?:D
Jun 06 01:08:50 <b-man16> yup, Ejscript
Jun 06 01:09:54 <Noma> ok
Jun 06 01:10:03 <b-man16> it's more like a web application framework though - it's designed to work without the aid of a browser :D
Jun 06 01:10:58 <Noma> so it's like the serverside java but javascript?:p
Jun 06 01:11:11 <b-man16> yup
Jun 06 01:11:38 <b-man16> but it's easier than java XD
Jun 06 01:11:47 <Noma> yep, not that complicated
Jun 06 01:12:39 <b-man16> pluse it can run stan alone scripts or compiled javascript :)
Jun 06 01:12:45 <b-man16> *stand
Jun 06 01:13:30 <Noma> hmm maybe i should go to sleep, it's 4 am :/
Jun 06 01:13:32 <b-man16> and it has support for jquery :)
Jun 06 01:13:39 <b-man16> wow 0.o
Jun 06 01:13:52 <b-man16> you should XD
Jun 06 01:14:07 <rzr> Noma: nitdroid :)
Jun 06 01:14:35 <rzr> Noma:  http://digg.com/linux_unix/NITdroid_or_just_another_Android_port_nokia_770_and_later
Jun 06 01:16:18 <Noma> hmm, is nitdroid still missing bluetooth (+ possibility to connect to internet via 3g phone)?
Jun 06 01:33:56 <FireFox`> ~seen xnt14
Jun 06 01:34:00 <infobot> xnt14 <n=chatzill@pool-96-250-79-216.nycmny.fios.verizon.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 2d 9h 22m 50s ago, saying: ':P'.
Jun 06 01:34:25 <FireFox`> damn, i missed him :P
Jun 06 01:35:10 * FireFox` jumps on twitter to bug him XD
Jun 06 02:03:30 <luke-jr> Noma: that list omits Gentoo :<
Jun 06 02:35:26 <dieb_> does anyone know how to get rid of "sem_post: Function not implemented" on diablo sbox python2.5?
Jun 06 02:35:27 <Bobbe> do the council meetings happen here in irc?
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Jun 06 02:59:59 2009