**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Jun 26 10:29:06 2009
Jun 26 10:39:30 <_mo> i am trying to start bluez in scratchbox target x86 through /etc/init.d/bluez-utils and it fails
Jun 26 10:40:00 <_mo> any suggestions? bluetooth stick is connected and showing up in hciconfig
Jun 26 10:40:45 <VDVsx> _mo, hciconfig inside scratchbox ?
Jun 26 10:41:17 <_mo> if I remove the line where the PATH variable is set from /etc/init.d/bluez-utils it works ...
Jun 26 10:42:05 <VDVsx> _mo, the current path should be /etc/init.d/bluetooth start, I think
Jun 26 10:43:00 <_mo> yes running hciconfig inside scratchbox shows hci0 up running
Jun 26 11:00:21 * lcuk deflates
Jun 26 11:00:38 * RichiH blows up lcuk 
Jun 26 11:01:53 * lardman supplies some TNT
Jun 26 11:04:47 <lardman> perhaps a bicycle tyre repair kit would be better though ;)
Jun 26 11:10:50 <lcuk> RichiH, thats not the kind of boost i need
Jun 26 11:10:58 <lcuk> :D and yeah lardman, that would prolly help
Jun 26 11:15:40 * VDVsx sends a pack of beers to lcuk
Jun 26 11:15:51 <lcuk> :D that sounds like a plan
Jun 26 11:22:40 <jeremiah> Where's my beer?
Jun 26 11:25:02 <Jaffa> Beer. Hmm, interesting idea.
Jun 26 11:25:08 * Stskeeps will be getting beer at work
Jun 26 11:25:14 * Jaffa 's having a bacon butty for lunch. Beer does go well with it
Jun 26 11:27:53 <andre__> jeremiah, still in the systembolaget? :-P
Jun 26 11:30:25 <jeremiah> andre__: Yes - I'm afraid so. :-/
Jun 26 11:31:47 * Jaffa is having a Michael Jackson day from Spotify today.
Jun 26 11:31:57 <andre__> hmm, now as complaints about broken icq and yahoo messenger get popular, does anybody plan to pack pidgin-2.5.7 for maemo? :-/
Jun 26 11:32:55 <Stskeeps> think there was some discussion yesterday
Jun 26 11:35:11 <jeremiah> Hmm. It would be cool if 'Request for Packaging' had an output list so people could see what packages people want
Jun 26 11:35:32 <jeremiah> Then people new to the community can quickly get integrated by picking up on one of those packages
Jun 26 11:35:53 <jeremiah> Get some karma points, package something, learn about the platform, etc.
Jun 26 11:37:09 <Jaffa> Something which it needs to make clear: is it expected you'd put a package name; upstream unix name; English description; general description. One thing we've seen before (and seen again in Brainstorm) is explaining to users why "port wine" won't solve the problem they think it does.
Jun 26 11:38:30 <jeremiah> Good point.
Jun 26 11:48:48 <AStorm> and "port wine" is a huge task
Jun 26 11:49:00 <AStorm> requiring CPU emulation
Jun 26 11:49:11 <AStorm> and probably would work very slow
Jun 26 11:49:58 <Jaffa> AStorm: indeed; that was kinda my point ;-)
Jun 26 11:50:37 <cosmo> does wine support cpu emulation btw?
Jun 26 11:50:58 <AStorm> now, 'update pidgin hildonization' is not
Jun 26 11:51:14 <AchipA_away> cpm: are you using C++ or python ?
Jun 26 11:51:51 <Jaffa> cosmo: I believe you can get wine to run in conjunction with qemu, BICBW
Jun 26 11:52:19 <AStorm> cosmo, €es, that's how wine runs on PPC
Jun 26 11:52:24 <AStorm> *yes
Jun 26 11:52:49 <cosmo> well, then it wouldn't be impossible
Jun 26 11:53:17 <AStorm> getting qemu to run here would be hard
Jun 26 11:53:29 <AStorm> getting it to run fast even harder
Jun 26 11:53:38 <AchipA_away> cpm: if C++, take a look at http://wiki.maemo.org/Qt4Hildon#Maemo_Qt_API_Reference , check the Input section, you can play with how HIM works
Jun 26 11:54:01 <Jaffa> cosmo: No one said it was impossible; just mostly a lot of effort for very little, mostly impractical, gain
Jun 26 11:54:05 <AchipA_away> cpm: if python, you're out of luck, there are a foew known bugs regarding HIM that need fixing
Jun 26 11:54:16 <cosmo> i think speed would be enough for basic gui apps, but nothing very useful
Jun 26 11:54:39 <Jaffa> cosmo: have you ever done x86 emulation on ARM?
Jun 26 11:54:44 <AchipA_away> won't memory kill you before even you get to the point of being slow ?
Jun 26 11:54:55 <Jaffa> Apart from the lack of memory, drawing the *GUI* will take minutes
Jun 26 11:55:49 <AStorm> nah, that part is done by Wine
Jun 26 11:56:14 <AStorm> the emulation part is to execute the apps themselves
Jun 26 11:56:39 <AStorm> any more intensive app will stall
Jun 26 11:56:44 <cosmo> Jaffa: well, dosemu runs fine on maemo
Jun 26 11:57:08 <AStorm> also, wine+qemu is huge
Jun 26 11:57:41 <Razumihin> It's pretty much impossible to do decent x86 emulation on ARM.
Jun 26 11:57:54 <AStorm> Razumihin, wrong
Jun 26 11:58:17 <AStorm> easier than you'd think
Jun 26 11:58:37 <Razumihin> AStorm: At least on the older ones like nokia devices you don't even have native floating point numbers...
Jun 26 11:58:58 <AStorm> offload to softfpu library
Jun 26 11:59:01 <lcuk> native x86 doesnt have floats either
Jun 26 11:59:23 <AStorm> they do have FPUs since Pentium
Jun 26 12:00:17 <Razumihin> Yes. Okay, you could have emulation on modern arm, but i don't really see the point in emulating at least on maemo.
Jun 26 12:00:38 <AStorm> wine would give us some apps
Jun 26 12:00:47 <AStorm> but not the useful mobile ones
Jun 26 12:00:47 <lcuk> what stops us getting windows mobile on device
Jun 26 12:01:02 <lcuk> or at least or wine for mobile rather
Jun 26 12:01:03 <Razumihin> With really crappy UIs
Jun 26 12:01:04 <AStorm> because it doesn't support most of winmob and .net
Jun 26 12:01:15 <AStorm> Razumihin, better than none
Jun 26 12:01:19 <lcuk> .net compact doesnt support most of .net ;)
Jun 26 12:01:33 <AStorm> but it's still .net 3
Jun 26 12:01:49 <AStorm> which mono doesn't support
Jun 26 12:01:56 <Razumihin> AStorm: Yes but i don't see the point. Tablet is just not suited to that kind of applications :) I would rather bring atom laptop.
Jun 26 12:01:57 <AStorm> you'd also have to port mono
Jun 26 12:01:59 <AStorm> :P
Jun 26 12:02:12 <lcuk> done isnt it
Jun 26 12:02:13 <AStorm> Razumihin, for windows mobile apps?
Jun 26 12:02:27 <Razumihin> AStorm: Isn't winmo ARM?
Jun 26 12:02:36 <AStorm> no, it isn't
Jun 26 12:02:51 <Razumihin> Oh. Then i agree:)
Jun 26 12:03:10 <Razumihin> Sorry for the fuzz i remember them being ARM based devices.
Jun 26 12:03:12 <lcuk> ?
Jun 26 12:03:19 <AStorm> well
Jun 26 12:03:27 <AStorm> no, there are 2 variants of winmo
Jun 26 12:03:34 <lcuk> there was a vmware demo showing wimo or something
Jun 26 12:03:58 <AStorm> but that's winmo x86
Jun 26 12:04:01 <lcuk> some virtualized thing switching between linux and winmo
Jun 26 12:04:02 * lcuk cant remember
Jun 26 12:04:50 <AStorm> bah
Jun 26 12:04:58 <AStorm> winmo does have an arm version
Jun 26 12:05:04 <lcuk> winmo isnt for x86 tho
Jun 26 12:05:07 <lcuk> there are no x86 winmo parts?
Jun 26 12:05:20 <AStorm> there is winmo for x86
Jun 26 12:05:21 <lcuk> the arm version is the default isnt it?
Jun 26 12:05:25 <AStorm> it is
Jun 26 12:05:29 <lcuk> its been running on xscales and things for years
Jun 26 12:05:42 <AStorm> so, we still get some stuff running
Jun 26 12:05:51 <Razumihin> Yeah... i remember it so in the beginning of 2000
Jun 26 12:05:59 <AStorm> but until someone improves mono to run .net compact...
Jun 26 12:06:20 <lcuk> someone built mono for maemo didnt they
Jun 26 12:06:29 <AStorm> building is ok
Jun 26 12:06:34 <AStorm> but not enough
Jun 26 12:06:56 <AStorm> it doesn't support net 3 which compact has parts of
Jun 26 12:07:04 <lcuk> its a start tho
Jun 26 12:07:26 <lcuk> its not like you have to write the whole .net framework from scratch
Jun 26 12:07:47 <lcuk> and im sure there are mono guys aiming towards getting everything required in
Jun 26 12:07:54 <lcuk> and then its plain sailing
Jun 26 12:08:08 <lcuk> *for varying amounts of plain
Jun 26 12:09:00 <lcuk> anyway, the whole start of this convo, someone mentioned that wine has an x86->arm emulator?
Jun 26 12:09:20 <lcuk> i thought wine mean "wine is not an emulator"
Jun 26 12:09:54 <AStorm> no, it can use qemu
Jun 26 12:10:12 <lcuk> ahh
Jun 26 12:17:55 <cpm> danielwilm: thanks! could you please use my email address mayer@tm.uka.de as correspondance for this. thanks a lot!
Jun 26 12:23:16 <danielwilms> cpm I will do this, no problem
Jun 26 12:30:22 <RST38h> EHLO
Jun 26 12:32:39 <AchipA_away> 501 Syntactically invalid EHLO argument(s)
Jun 26 12:35:27 <lcuk> RST38h, \o ack!
Jun 26 12:38:20 * RST38h suddenly remembers he promised fMSX-Maemo sources to qwerty
Jun 26 12:42:44 <andre__> timeless, what is "DUPEME" in the status whiteboard?
Jun 26 12:43:41 <timeless_mbp> "it is believed that this is a duplicate of an existing bug, would a qa please find that bug and resolve one of them as a duplicate of the other"
Jun 26 12:46:12 <Stskeeps> timeless_mbp: if i locate the old engineering english desktop strings that match mer hildon-desktop would you be interested in making US versions of them? then our set should be fairly complete?
Jun 26 12:46:29 <Stskeeps> you might have to do some merging into maemo-af-desktop-l10n
Jun 26 12:46:34 <timeless_mbp> Stskeeps: you can pull them from my diablo strings :)
Jun 26 12:46:58 <Stskeeps> hmm true
Jun 26 12:47:08 <timeless_mbp> my licenses says "you're free to take them" :)
Jun 26 12:47:19 <timeless_mbp> s/es/e/
Jun 26 12:47:19 <infobot> timeless_mbp meant: my license says "you're free to take them" :)
Jun 26 12:48:23 <Stskeeps> i just might
Jun 26 12:50:02 <Stskeeps> then we have a full set i guess
Jun 26 12:51:42 <Macer> la la la
Jun 26 12:51:44 <Stskeeps> not entirely sure where claudius disappeared off to, so i'm pushing a bit on this work as it's a showstopper for 0.15 if it doesn't have strings :P
Jun 26 12:51:54 <suihkulokki> engineering engrish
Jun 26 12:52:37 <Stskeeps> indeed
Jun 26 12:56:56 <andre__> timeless, in the long run i can add a "probabledup" keyword as in gnome, but i don't think it's a dup :)
Jun 26 12:57:11 * timeless_mbp shrugs
Jun 26 12:57:21 <timeless_mbp> we've been using DUPEME in sw in gecko for nearly a decade
Jun 26 12:57:54 <andre__> ah
Jun 26 12:57:55 <andre__> also nice
Jun 26 13:13:47 <fiferboy> lbt: Hey
Jun 26 13:14:06 <fiferboy> I see your OBS Qt build going, it's made it to examples
Jun 26 13:23:34 * man_in_shack waves
Jun 26 13:26:30 <man_in_shack> anyone here know much about harmattan? :)
Jun 26 13:29:58 <GAN800> Apparently the Rays had a good game last night. . . .
Jun 26 13:30:27 <GAN800> man_in_shack, official Qt support.
Jun 26 13:30:45 <fiferboy> GAN800: Anyone can beat the Phillies these days.
Jun 26 13:30:52 <fiferboy> The Jays just swept them in Phillie
Jun 26 13:31:03 <GAN800> man_in_shack, that's mostly the extent of what we're sure about although there should be a bit more info on the roadmap on the wiki.
Jun 26 13:31:35 <GAN800> fiferboy, well, there're broken beer bottles all over the sidewalk out front. ;)
Jun 26 13:31:47 <fiferboy> Ah, that's how you can tell!
Jun 26 13:32:10 <fiferboy> I guess it is good revenge, after losing the World Series to them last year
Jun 26 13:33:24 <Jaffa> man_in_shack: some mockups of an integrated widget-oriented; scrollable home screen.
Jun 26 13:34:22 <oespirit> ~seen vimzard
Jun 26 13:34:24 <infobot> vimzard is currently on #gsoc (8h 27m 27s), last said: 'sid0: :-P'.
Jun 26 13:36:51 <man_in_shack> well, apparently a wireless network feature i want has been planned for harmattan
Jun 26 13:37:00 <man_in_shack> so ... i'm wondering what devices it will be released for
Jun 26 13:37:00 <Jaffa> Oh?
Jun 26 13:37:12 <man_in_shack> https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1635
Jun 26 13:37:16 <Jaffa> man_in_shack: We've no idea on that :(
Jun 26 13:38:09 <Jaffa> man_in_shack: Oh, if yours is the final comment: no, it won't be available for existing devices
Jun 26 13:38:28 <man_in_shack> so that's yet another slap in the goddamn face
Jun 26 13:38:36 <Jaffa> Fremantle (due out at some point this year) isn't even being released for N8x0s; but portions of it are being backported to N8x0 and 770 devices in Mer
Jun 26 13:39:08 <man_in_shack> how about they actually do something sensible and backport the wireless improvements to diablo?
Jun 26 13:39:32 <Jaffa> man_in_shack: Err, Harmattan is roadmapped for release either late *next* year or the year after (my guess). The N810 is over two years old; running a cutting edge mobile OS on (at least) 4 year old hardware seems pretty unreasonable as an expectation.
Jun 26 13:39:55 <man_in_shack> one little feature is all i ask
Jun 26 13:40:06 <man_in_shack> it's not like it's difficult
Jun 26 13:40:09 <Jaffa> man_in_shack: Who's "they"? They might be available via Mer (or Mer might already have it via its Ubuntu base)
Jun 26 13:40:18 <man_in_shack> f*** mer
Jun 26 13:40:21 <Jaffa> man_in_shack: Ah, you're a coder?
Jun 26 13:40:22 <man_in_shack> unstable crap
Jun 26 13:40:42 <man_in_shack> Jaffa, the wpa-supplicant support for that particular type of network is something like 20 lines of code
Jun 26 13:40:57 <Jaffa> man_in_shack: If you know it's not difficult, I assume you're familiar with the innards of Linux network stacks & Maemo's UI code; so if it's not hard you can add it yourself.
Jun 26 13:41:18 <man_in_shack> last i heard maemo's networking system was closed source
Jun 26 13:41:31 <Jaffa> man_in_shack: Mer's under development, and its developers are some of the most committed and dedicated volunteers in the community. Calling its in-development releases "unstable crap" is just plain trolling.
Jun 26 13:41:50 <man_in_shack> Jaffa, mer is unsuited to my needs
Jun 26 13:42:39 <Jaffa> *Now*, perhaps. The aim long term is for it not to be unsuited to your needs. And if it includes whatever wifi protocols you require, that's a win.
Jun 26 13:43:15 <man_in_shack> i need something that, e.g., doesn't continuously assume i'm hitting Enter when trying to put the cursor in a text field
Jun 26 13:43:21 * Myrtti smells love in the air
Jun 26 13:45:28 <RST38h> man_in_shack: If you do not like Mer, use OS2008.
Jun 26 13:45:40 <man_in_shack> os2008 doesn't have the wifi support i need
Jun 26 13:45:43 <Myrtti> RST38h: but but but it doesn't have the wifi!
Jun 26 13:45:51 <RST38h> man_in_shack: If you do not like OS2008, put together your own distro
Jun 26 13:46:04 <RST38h> Myrtti: Wait, we are slowly getting to that ;)
Jun 26 13:46:27 <man_in_shack> and to be perfectly honest, nokia has just been sitting around on their butts since they first released os2007 when it comes to this particular configuration of wireless network
Jun 26 13:46:40 <man_in_shack> now they finally say they are PLANNING to support it, and it's only for new devices
Jun 26 13:46:44 <Myrtti> man_in_shack: here, have a lollipop
Jun 26 13:46:46 <man_in_shack> which is just a money making scheme
Jun 26 13:47:14 <RST38h> man_in_shack: I am sure you can pay someone to implement what you want
Jun 26 13:47:34 <man_in_shack> any suggestions on who?
Jun 26 13:48:04 <RST38h> man_in_shack: There are guys from Openismus and other embedded Linux companies in the Nokia community
Jun 26 13:48:07 <qwerty12_N810> man_in_shack: bothered to read #43?
Jun 26 13:48:26 <Stskeeps> did you try to get the wpasupplicant ICD plugin? :P
Jun 26 13:48:37 <RST38h> man_in_shack: I suggest you post your request (with bounty amount) on talk.maemo.org or one of the mailing lists
Jun 26 13:48:45 <man_in_shack> qwerty12_N810, could not get it to work
Jun 26 13:49:08 <man_in_shack> in fact, could not even find a correct driver to install
Jun 26 13:53:07 <RST38h> and nokia or mer are somehow guilty of it?
Jun 26 13:53:43 <man_in_shack> for failing to support this network type from the very start? yes
Jun 26 13:54:12 <Jaffa> man_in_shack: You think Nokia is intentionally introducing new OSes which try to compete with the Androids, webOSes and iPhones of this world to gouge money out of existing customers by prematurely obsoleting hardware? Or were you (correctly) just saying that by constantly pushing forward the OS, they're trying to entice in new customers and increase market share in an increasingly competitive market?
Jun 26 13:54:38 <Jaffa> man_in_shack: Yeah, but a) it was never advertised as supporting it; b) moaning about the past seems pretty unproductive.
Jun 26 13:54:40 <Stskeeps> qwerty12_N810: heads up btw, tear will break with 0.7
Jun 26 13:54:51 <Stskeeps> (vala)
Jun 26 13:55:02 <RST38h> man_in_shack: well, Nokia does not support my 802.11a and TokenRing installations. Should I blame Nokia for that too?
Jun 26 13:55:03 <man_in_shack> Jaffa, was it ever advertised as supporting MSCHAPv2?
Jun 26 13:55:19 <man_in_shack> it was advertised as supporting WPA-EAP
Jun 26 13:55:25 <Jaffa> Stskeeps: Didn't Bundyo say he was updating it to support the required changes? (in the tear thread after I said 0.7.3 was now in extras)
Jun 26 13:55:37 <Stskeeps> Jaffa: oh, possibly - the source i had wasn't fixed yet
Jun 26 13:55:37 <man_in_shack> which it does not because it does not support this ONE configuration of WPA-EAP
Jun 26 13:55:51 <Myrtti> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNC0kIzM1Fo Love is in the air!
Jun 26 13:55:52 <Jaffa> man_in_shack: If the device doesn't do as it was advertised: send it back and/or take Nokia to court for fale advertising.
Jun 26 13:55:57 <man_in_shack> which is a common configuration for a variety of businesses and educational institutes world-wide
Jun 26 13:56:14 <RST38h> how common?
Jun 26 13:56:34 <Jaffa> Stskeeps: IIRC he said he *would* update, not that he had - so it might still not be done ;-)
Jun 26 13:56:42 <man_in_shack> vast majority of eduroam systems
Jun 26 13:56:49 <RST38h> My university does not use it. My employer does not use it. WiFi APs across the city do not use it. My home AP does not use it.
Jun 26 13:56:54 <Stskeeps> eduroam should work fine if you add the certificate
Jun 26 13:56:57 <Stskeeps> several guides for it
Jun 26 13:56:59 <man_in_shack> no
Jun 26 13:57:07 <man_in_shack> eduroam comes in two varieties
Jun 26 13:57:11 <man_in_shack> one is supported, one is not
Jun 26 13:57:18 <man_in_shack> guess which one i have to work with
Jun 26 13:57:29 <RST38h> tough luck.
Jun 26 13:57:42 <man_in_shack> it's not the fucking microsoft one that nokia DOES support
Jun 26 13:57:56 * VDVsx is glad that the n8x0 wifi works very well in the eduroam network in his country :P
Jun 26 13:58:13 <RST38h> VDVsx: It IS the fucking microsoft one! =)
Jun 26 13:58:19 <Myrtti> I guess it makes him happier to rant about it
Jun 26 13:58:34 * GAN800 joins the whine tasting.
Jun 26 13:58:37 <RST38h> Myrtti: maybe we should channel him toward OGG support? =)
Jun 26 13:58:40 <VDVsx> RST38h, don't care, it works :P
Jun 26 13:58:58 <Myrtti> RST38h: OH BOY!
Jun 26 13:59:07 <RST38h> VDVsx: It is because of people like you Bill Gates is growing his 5th chin right now!
Jun 26 13:59:07 <Myrtti> let's start with that!
Jun 26 13:59:09 <man_in_shack> how the HELL is announcing support for this in harmattan meant to help anyone who's "stuck" with their older devices?
Jun 26 13:59:33 <Myrtti> man_in_shack: would you rather not to have it in Harmattan?
Jun 26 13:59:49 <man_in_shack> Myrtti, i don't give a flying fuck about harmattan if i can't use it
Jun 26 13:59:51 <RST38h> moo pupnik
Jun 26 14:00:12 <RST38h> Myrtti: He does have a point, about Harmattan =)
Jun 26 14:01:14 <VDVsx> RST38h, nah, the university paid Cisco for the work and material :P, and the servers run debian :) (at least in my university)
Jun 26 14:01:33 <Myrtti> RST38h: good entertainment is what I call him
Jun 26 14:01:42 <Stskeeps> if you have wpa supplicant working, http://74.125.77.132/search?q=cache:xZT6Jw6lA5wJ:eduroam.metu.edu.tr/wpa_supplicant.conf+eduroam+wpa+supplicant+EAP-TTLS+%2B+PAP&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=dk looks fairly trivial.
Jun 26 14:01:48 <RST38h> VDVsx: Oh, the horror! Debian is supporting the world evil (tm)!
Jun 26 14:01:52 <Stskeeps> er, http://eduroam.metu.edu.tr/wpa_supplicant.conf
Jun 26 14:02:45 <Jaffa> man_in_shack: If you want to whine and moan that Nokia isn't going to support it on your device; tough - go somewhere else, we can't help. If you're having problems getting the community-provided solutions working, it seems people are trying to help.
Jun 26 14:02:47 <VDVsx> RST38h, lol
Jun 26 14:03:05 <man_in_shack> Stskeeps, that's a pretty damn big "if"
Jun 26 14:03:16 <man_in_shack> as nokia's drivers don't even support wext
Jun 26 14:03:35 <Stskeeps> they do, with a fairly easy patch
Jun 26 14:03:40 <Stskeeps> grab mer's cx3110x.ko
Jun 26 14:04:02 <RST38h> man_in_shack: If it is any consolation, Nokia does not support SIP through NAT on my cell phone
Jun 26 14:04:30 <RST38h> man_in_shack: So, should I start attacking Nokia stores with Molotov coctails because of that? =)
Jun 26 14:04:40 <Stskeeps> RST38h: i had you suspected of having such plans!
Jun 26 14:04:46 <VDVsx> RST38h, yes, please, lolol
Jun 26 14:05:00 <Myrtti> as long as you keep out of Finland
Jun 26 14:05:01 <AStorm> man_in_shack, there is an open driver by Nokia that does support wext
Jun 26 14:05:04 <AStorm> so stfu
Jun 26 14:05:05 <AStorm> :)
Jun 26 14:05:19 <man_in_shack> AStorm, where?
Jun 26 14:05:24 <man_in_shack> RST38h, STFU
Jun 26 14:05:25 <AStorm> they don't use it yet in maemo
Jun 26 14:05:33 <AStorm> cx3310~
Jun 26 14:05:43 <AStorm> cx3310x google it
Jun 26 14:05:50 <Myrtti> comic relief ♥
Jun 26 14:05:51 <RST38h> <another successfully phallomorphed target>
Jun 26 14:05:52 <AStorm> as Stskeeps "aid
Jun 26 14:05:59 <Myrtti> can see it's Friday
Jun 26 14:06:16 * Stskeeps passes Myrtti beer from the #maemo friday bar
Jun 26 14:06:26 <Myrtti> wohoo! \o/
Jun 26 14:06:38 * RST38h paints another star on his keyboard
Jun 26 14:06:42 <AStorm> man_in_shack, 9h btw, it won't work on the old kernel Maemo uses
Jun 26 14:06:57 <AStorm> only on a new one (like Mer has)
Jun 26 14:07:10 <Stskeeps> nah
Jun 26 14:07:16 <Stskeeps> will work on same kernel.
Jun 26 14:07:23 <Stskeeps> Mer doesn't have a new kernel, only patches
Jun 26 14:07:23 <AStorm> and all the Nokia custom apps, that is IPA, don't know about wext
Jun 26 14:07:25 <man_in_shack> https://garage.maemo.org/projects/cx3110x/
Jun 26 14:07:33 <AStorm> yeah that
Jun 26 14:07:37 <man_in_shack> i think i tried this and couldn't find a sensible download
Jun 26 14:07:49 <man_in_shack> there was some other driver that was meant to replace it or something
Jun 26 14:07:51 <AStorm> because it isn't built
Jun 26 14:07:54 <GAN800> man_in_shack, you want to complain, call up Nokia Care.
Jun 26 14:08:04 <AStorm> grab the module from Mer
Jun 26 14:08:06 <Stskeeps> man_in_shack: grab a mer tar.gz, extract cx3110x.ko from it, mount initfs rw, copy it in there..
Jun 26 14:08:10 <RST38h> GAN: Now, *that( is sadistic.
Jun 26 14:08:15 <qwerty12_N810> Why would you want to build that oldass version?
Jun 26 14:08:19 <AStorm> also, again, connection manager won't work with it
Jun 26 14:08:28 <AStorm> have fun installing a replacement
Jun 26 14:08:39 <AStorm> I recommend wicd
Jun 26 14:08:40 <Stskeeps> mer module will work fine with connection manager
Jun 26 14:08:44 <Stskeeps> we don't fuck around that much..
Jun 26 14:08:45 <Stskeeps> :P
Jun 26 14:08:47 <AStorm> it will?
Jun 26 14:08:49 <AStorm> haha
Jun 26 14:09:02 <AStorm> I suppose it didn't last time
Jun 26 14:09:21 <Myrtti> Daddy, did  the scary monster go away now?
Jun 26 14:09:22 <Stskeeps> well honestly i didn't try but it would surprise me if it doesn't
Jun 26 14:09:37 <Stskeeps> Myrtti: mention of "wicd"? :P
Jun 26 14:10:12 <Myrtti> Stskeeps: the musky smelling hairy beast that lives in a cave
Jun 26 14:10:26 <Stskeeps> what, me?
Jun 26 14:10:27 <Stskeeps> :P
Jun 26 14:10:48 * Stskeeps goes track down a crashing bug in mer hildon desktop
Jun 26 14:10:55 <man_in_shack> Stskeeps, btw, even if this doesn't work out, thanks for TRYING to help without being deliberately exacerbating like some of the other people here
Jun 26 14:11:13 * lardman notes lots of expletives in the channel
Jun 26 14:11:43 <Stskeeps> man_in_shack: all that info is in the exact same bug you pointed to, AFAIK
Jun 26 14:11:56 <RST38h> heya lardman
Jun 26 14:12:38 <Stskeeps> man_in_shack: also, keep in my mind you just badmouthed my baby and i'm -still- helping you - you get very far with being kind and asking out of the blue if anyone can help you with X because you're stuck at Y
Jun 26 14:13:16 <lardman> and on that note, the beer, not the swearing, I'm heading for home
Jun 26 14:13:22 <Stskeeps> beer!
Jun 26 14:13:24 <lardman> cu all later
Jun 26 14:13:26 <Stskeeps> the solution to all problems
Jun 26 14:13:36 <lardman|gone> :)
Jun 26 14:13:45 <GAN800> RST38h, well, they're the only people that can help him.
Jun 26 14:13:47 <Stskeeps> (i can agree mer is sometimes unstable crap, though, hence why i'm doing an effort to fix things :)
Jun 26 14:14:10 <RST38h> GAN: I haven't seen anyone helped by Nokia Care. Ever.
Jun 26 14:14:37 <man_in_shack> i wish i knew what happened to my old mer install
Jun 26 14:15:16 <GAN800> RST38h, complaining here only serves to irritate people who MIGHT be willing to try helpingz you otherwise. If you want to express your displeasure with Nokia then you need to talk TO Nokia
Jun 26 14:15:50 <RST38h> GAN: That goes without argument, of course.
Jun 26 14:16:17 <Stskeeps> man_in_shack: ran off after knocking up an iphone..
Jun 26 14:16:48 <GAN800> man_in_shack, just, fyi, first warning here, next time you coming in flinging around insults, don't expect to last long. :)
Jun 26 14:17:05 <Stskeeps> ah, he's been in here before and been cheerful
Jun 26 14:17:26 <Stskeeps> (no sarcasm in that sentence)
Jun 26 14:17:29 <man_in_shack> GAN800, i don't expect to be treated like crap because i want a SIMPLE feature that should have been implemented long ago
Jun 26 14:17:38 <AStorm> not so simple
Jun 26 14:17:54 <AStorm> thanks to TI being asses
Jun 26 14:18:02 <man_in_shack> i don't expect to be treated like crap because i refuse to waste money buying something that will run harmattan when it's released
Jun 26 14:18:32 <suihkulokki> you should expected to be treated like creap if you enter a irc channel ranting
Jun 26 14:18:43 <VDVsx> man_in_shack, blame nokia, not the maemo community ;)
Jun 26 14:19:00 <Stskeeps> man_in_shack: we can agree on that the whole fixed in fremantle/harmattan thing is crap, but it's just because we as community haven't been strong enough to create pipelines for delivering these fixes, or organising people in a manner so it gets done..
Jun 26 14:19:02 <AStorm> that's why there'll be mer
Jun 26 14:19:28 <Stskeeps> man_in_shack: which is really what we're doing with mer and eventually the diablo community variants
Jun 26 14:19:43 <AStorm> and that's why there have been hacker editions for 770
Jun 26 14:19:44 <man_in_shack> and i don't expect to be treated like crap because i want the solution now, when it's actually relevant, not in 12 months when i might not even have access to this particular netowkr
Jun 26 14:19:54 <wazd_n800> ohohoh, scandal!)
Jun 26 14:20:05 <wazd_n800> I came just in time)
Jun 26 14:20:28 <GAN800> man_in_shack, nobody here wants to be treated like crap because you're having a bad morning either. :)
Jun 26 14:20:30 <AStorm> man_in_shack, hire a nokia dev or someone like that to do it...
Jun 26 14:21:04 <AStorm> actually, workaround is now possible thanks to mer
Jun 26 14:21:24 <AStorm> but this isn't integrated in diablo right now, for obvious reasons
Jun 26 14:21:35 <AStorm> btw, what kind of feature is that?
Jun 26 14:21:48 <man_in_shack> what obvious reasons?
Jun 26 14:22:11 <wazd_n800> what's the theme of current speculation?)
Jun 26 14:22:32 <wazd_n800> I want to participate!)
Jun 26 14:22:52 <AStorm> man_in_shack, all workforce moved to fremantle
Jun 26 14:23:11 <AStorm> and current driver being stable and tested
Jun 26 14:23:44 <man_in_shack> that's not an obvious reason for why it wasn't done in the first place
Jun 26 14:23:53 <VDVsx> wazd_n800, not a speculation, just ranting :P
Jun 26 14:23:54 <Jaffa> man_in_shack: The main point is that this channel is a community channel, not a Nokia support channel. And we're focused on trynig to solve problems: we've done our sitting around in a moaning circle-jerk before and moved on. More productive times.
Jun 26 14:24:04 <AStorm> it wasn't done, because there was no driver
Jun 26 14:24:06 <AStorm> duh
Jun 26 14:24:11 <AStorm> it's fairly new
Jun 26 14:24:42 <AStorm> good that they made it
Jun 26 14:24:48 <Stskeeps> cx3110x? released long ago :P
Jun 26 14:25:03 <man_in_shack> https://garage.maemo.org/frs/?group_id=12&release_id=1012 << FEBURARY 2007
Jun 26 14:26:04 <wazd_n801> I don't know why everybody call TI asses and stuff
Jun 26 14:26:05 <qwerty12_N810> Look in the diablo sdk repo
Jun 26 14:26:16 <AStorm> Stskeeps, but wasn't stable
Jun 26 14:26:20 <qwerty12_N810> Much newer than the one listed on the garage page
Jun 26 14:26:30 <AStorm> ah right
Jun 26 14:26:36 <AStorm> another obstacle
Jun 26 14:26:38 <AStorm> :P
Jun 26 14:26:48 <AStorm> it's.... somewhere :P
Jun 26 14:27:09 <AStorm> wazd_n800, because TI NDAs are evil
Jun 26 14:27:42 <wazd_n801> They had a price list for OMAP2 platform, Nokia decided not to y for video driver. Now TI decided to present our community those drivers for free and you call'em asses
Jun 26 14:27:56 <wazd_n801> not to pay*
Jun 26 14:28:09 <AStorm> s/those drivers/binaries/
Jun 26 14:28:25 <AStorm> that's a difference
Jun 26 14:28:40 * oespirit blinks in disbelief after scrolling down more than a dozen screenfuls of rant-ish channel logs
Jun 26 14:28:43 <AStorm> btw, gimme a link to them
Jun 26 14:28:43 <wazd_n801> not binaries! Fresh opened drivers with sources
Jun 26 14:28:58 <qwerty12_N810> AStorm: no, there's talk of a open source powervr driver. it does have some bugs compared to the binary only ones
Jun 26 14:28:59 <AStorm> link or it didn't happen
Jun 26 14:29:00 <wazd_n801> have you read a thread?
Jun 26 14:29:11 <AStorm> no
Jun 26 14:29:15 <rm_you> i thought the problem was that the built-in video chip on the OMAP2 wasn't actually part of the video pipeline because it was too low resolution so there is a different LCD controller powering the screen
Jun 26 14:29:38 <wazd_n801> AStorm: It's in the same place as the whole gasping
Jun 26 14:30:01 <rm_you> did I just pull that out of nowhere, or does someone else know what i'm referring to?
Jun 26 14:30:06 <AStorm> yeah, that is mostly OMAP2 designed for other stuff than a 800x480 tablet
Jun 26 14:30:07 <Jaffa> AStorm: qgil's 9.06-14 task in http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo.org_Sprints/June_09 - being tracked in the "N800 has a 3D accelerator?" thread on tmo
Jun 26 14:30:08 <Stskeeps> rm_you: no, i've heard that before
Jun 26 14:30:20 <Stskeeps> rm_you: but it doesn't mean that it isn't useful
Jun 26 14:30:20 <qwerty12_N810> rm_you: it's true
Jun 26 14:30:42 <wazd_n801> rm_you: well, this is a secondary problem
Jun 26 14:30:59 <rm_you> lol alright
Jun 26 14:31:19 <Stskeeps> rm_you: how's cross platform backlight coming? :P
Jun 26 14:31:32 <wazd_n801> rm_you: you can do cool thing with pixel doubling for example
Jun 26 14:31:35 <rm_you> lol, i've been working and driving and working and driving >_<
Jun 26 14:31:41 <GAN800> rm_you, memory is system
Jun 26 14:31:51 <GAN800> the framebuffer isn't any issue
Jun 26 14:31:52 <rm_you> i thought it already did hardware pixel doubling
Jun 26 14:32:05 <man_in_shack> oh just thought of something else
Jun 26 14:32:08 <GAN800> The Epspn chip does free arbitrary scaling
Jun 26 14:32:09 <wazd_n801> run thru power vr at 400x240 and then double it with Epson
Jun 26 14:32:33 <man_in_shack> is it possible to disable esd on diablo, preferably temporarily so i can test what i suspect to be a latency issue with some apps?
Jun 26 14:32:42 <AStorm> wazd_n800, or 640x480
Jun 26 14:32:46 <AStorm> and add bars
Jun 26 14:33:26 <wazd_n801> astorm, well, there are a lot of tricks)
Jun 26 14:33:32 * rm_you feels guilty for looking quite hungrily at the Archos 7
Jun 26 14:33:34 <suihkulokki> man_in_shack: iirc /etc/init.d/esd (?) stop
Jun 26 14:34:08 <wazd_n801> Anyway, they are making pure opened driver for community, so the community can improve it later
Jun 26 14:34:22 <man_in_shack> suihkulokki, i tried that, but it seems it autostarted when the app started
Jun 26 14:34:32 <AStorm> wazd_n800, goodie
Jun 26 14:34:36 <Stskeeps> wazd_n801: yeah.. i think people are just bitter :P
Jun 26 14:34:44 <Jaffa> wazd_n801: nothing's confirmed yet - still time for it to go fubar
Jun 26 14:34:45 <man_in_shack> Stskeeps, i can't find maemo's initrd
Jun 26 14:34:50 <AStorm> pity we can't run compiz on top of that at 800x480
Jun 26 14:34:52 <AStorm> :/
Jun 26 14:34:59 <Stskeeps> man_in_shack: we don't have one, /lib/modules/2.6.21-omap1/ somewhere
Jun 26 14:35:03 <AStorm> guess we'll have to settle for Xv
Jun 26 14:35:06 <rm_you> lol, compix on tablet? rofl
Jun 26 14:35:08 <man_in_shack> someone said initrd
Jun 26 14:35:09 <suihkulokki> man_in_shack: hrmh, that might be, I guess you'll need to chmod -x the binary then
Jun 26 14:35:14 <rm_you> s/compix/compiz/
Jun 26 14:35:14 <infobot> rm_you meant: lol, compiz on tablet? rofl
Jun 26 14:35:24 <AStorm> rm_you, why not, w/o effects
Jun 26 14:36:07 <man_in_shack> there's no /lib/modules :|
Jun 26 14:36:11 <AStorm> still, 3D is overrated
Jun 26 14:36:14 <rm_you> i mean don't get me wrong, i love compiz... i worked a bit on the project when it was forked to beryl...
Jun 26 14:36:19 <rm_you> but i don
Jun 26 14:36:19 <AStorm> man_in_shack, it's in initramfs
Jun 26 14:36:26 <rm_you> but i don't see the point on the tablet :P
Jun 26 14:36:40 <GAN800> 800x480 at 12bpp should work
Jun 26 14:36:43 <AStorm> that was tongue in cheek
Jun 26 14:36:55 <AStorm> GAN800, hmm, low color? interesting
Jun 26 14:37:02 <rm_you> that
Jun 26 14:37:07 <man_in_shack> AStorm, it's in where?
Jun 26 14:37:09 <AStorm> does the screen have any more?
Jun 26 14:37:24 <rm_you> hrm
Jun 26 14:37:31 <wazd_n801> GAN800, well, 12bpp really suxx (
Jun 26 14:37:38 <rm_you> ack gotta go
Jun 26 14:37:43 <AStorm> wazd_n800, you do
Jun 26 14:37:44 <rm_you> back to idling for a few days :P
Jun 26 14:37:52 <wazd_n801> Even 16 is not very cool, 12 is uber lame)
Jun 26 14:37:54 <AStorm> the LCD doesn't have any more than this
Jun 26 14:38:20 <wazd_n801> but you can run blackberry UI with this mode :P
Jun 26 14:39:11 <man_in_shack> Stskeeps, i can't work out where to put this kernel module
Jun 26 14:39:40 <man_in_shack> there's no /lib/modules, apparently no initrd file ...
Jun 26 14:39:59 <AStorm> man_in_shack, it's a separate partition
Jun 26 14:40:09 <AStorm> accessible via /initrd (but readonly)
Jun 26 14:40:11 <Stskeeps> man_in_shack: mount -o remount,rw /mnt/initfs ,  put it in /mnt/initfs/lib/modules/somewhere-where-cx3110x.ko is
Jun 26 14:40:21 <qwerty12_N810> /mnt/initfs/lib/modules/2.6.21-omap1
Jun 26 14:40:23 <Stskeeps> AStorm: no initrd on maemo or mer
Jun 26 14:40:25 <AStorm> yeah, that
Jun 26 14:40:37 <AStorm> Stskeeps, initramfs, yep
Jun 26 14:40:39 <AStorm> whatever
Jun 26 14:40:57 <AStorm> or maybe even not ram :P
Jun 26 14:40:59 <AStorm> initfs
Jun 26 14:41:07 <man_in_shack> AStorm, /initrd is not in fstab
Jun 26 14:41:19 <AStorm> ...
Jun 26 14:41:21 <AStorm> it's not
Jun 26 14:41:30 <AStorm> /mnt/initfs is already mounte
Jun 26 14:41:33 <AStorm> d
Jun 26 14:41:39 <man_in_shack> ah, /dev/root == /mnt/initfs in mtab
Jun 26 14:41:43 <AStorm> (by the boot loader)
Jun 26 14:41:44 <man_in_shack> i see
Jun 26 14:41:57 <AStorm> (then pivot_rooted)
Jun 26 14:43:20 <man_in_shack> now i see a file cx3110x_mt.ko
Jun 26 14:43:23 <man_in_shack> what's that?
Jun 26 14:43:37 <GAN800> 400x240 at 16bpp
Jun 26 14:43:45 <AStorm> a variant
Jun 26 14:43:54 <AStorm> using different firmware
Jun 26 14:44:00 <man_in_shack> hm ok
Jun 26 14:44:34 <man_in_shack> so first step is to confirm that the WPA-PSK wireless at home works :D
Jun 26 14:45:01 <AStorm> it didn't?
Jun 26 14:45:12 <man_in_shack> it did
Jun 26 14:45:14 <AStorm> that should work
Jun 26 14:45:15 <man_in_shack> now it has a new module
Jun 26 14:45:20 <AStorm> ah, yep
Jun 26 14:45:36 <AStorm> still, why do you need the new driver?
Jun 26 14:45:48 <man_in_shack> you don't want to live long do you?
Jun 26 14:46:32 <AStorm> what will I die from laughter?
Jun 26 14:46:38 <AStorm> :P
Jun 26 14:46:56 * RST38h slaughters AStorm to save Darwin some work
Jun 26 14:47:03 <man_in_shack> ok, home's wireless is being detected but it's not connecting
Jun 26 14:47:31 <AStorm> did I mention the conn manager doesn't work with it?
Jun 26 14:47:35 <RST38h> (before AStorm cuts another power supply open and electrocutes himself that is :))
Jun 26 14:47:38 <AStorm> try iwconfig
Jun 26 14:47:49 <AStorm> RST38h, I'm not stupid
Jun 26 14:47:52 <man_in_shack> AStorm, Stskeeps mentioned that it did
Jun 26 14:47:55 <Stskeeps> well
Jun 26 14:48:01 <Stskeeps> i'm obviously wrong
Jun 26 14:48:05 <man_in_shack> fuck
Jun 26 14:48:18 <AStorm> wpa_supplicant is available
Jun 26 14:48:21 <Stskeeps> lsmod and see if cx3110x is there
Jun 26 14:48:22 <RST38h> AStorm: don't have to be, "careless" is sufficient
Jun 26 14:48:24 <AStorm> idk if wicd is too
Jun 26 14:48:31 <man_in_shack> Stskeeps, it is, hence the successful scan
Jun 26 14:48:35 <AStorm> RST38h, not *that* careless
Jun 26 14:48:41 <RST38h> hehe
Jun 26 14:48:47 <Stskeeps> man_in_shack: anyway, the wpa extension thingie should work now
Jun 26 14:49:01 <Stskeeps> funny normal osso-wlan doesn't work with it
Jun 26 14:49:22 <man_in_shack> wicd would be fine
Jun 26 14:49:26 <man_in_shack> if it was available
Jun 26 14:49:39 <RST38h> Creepy stuff: http://gizmodo.com/5302856/anti+abuse-bus-stop-ad-only-batters-women-when-nobodys-looking
Jun 26 14:52:19 <man_in_shack> so anyone know if network-manager, wicd, etc are packaged for maemo anywhere?
Jun 26 14:52:37 <AStorm> nm is unlikely, it pulls gnome
Jun 26 14:52:43 <man_in_shack> indeed
Jun 26 14:52:48 <man_in_shack> wicd then :P
Jun 26 14:52:50 <AStorm> but wicd... someone could do it
Jun 26 14:52:53 <man_in_shack> and wpa-supplicant
Jun 26 14:53:05 <AStorm> Stskeeps, maybe you have them?
Jun 26 14:54:34 <AStorm> mer 100% has wpa-supplicant
Jun 26 14:54:43 <AStorm> not sure about wicd
Jun 26 14:55:26 <AStorm> (it uses nm)
Jun 26 14:59:32 <man_in_shack> well right now i either need a link to a package for at least wpa-supplicant or preferably something with a gui too :P
Jun 26 15:11:48 <man_in_shack> screw it ... maybe someone will be nice enough to send me the maemo cx3110x module so i can at least get my home internet back
Jun 26 15:12:23 <Stskeeps> you can always reflash initfs specifically
Jun 26 15:12:26 <Stskeeps> --flash-only
Jun 26 15:12:35 <man_in_shack> hmm?
Jun 26 15:12:46 <man_in_shack> what command exactly?
Jun 26 15:14:25 * man_in_shack pokes Stskeeps 
Jun 26 15:15:19 <Stskeeps> ./flasher-3.0 -F fiasco-image --flash-only=initfs or something
Jun 26 15:16:30 <man_in_shack> hmm
Jun 26 15:16:43 <man_in_shack> seem to be missing a few things there
Jun 26 15:17:23 <Stskeeps> hence the "or something"
Jun 26 15:17:28 <Stskeeps> there's a guide on how to get rid of bootmenu, same trick
Jun 26 15:18:13 <man_in_shack> link?
Jun 26 15:19:46 <Stskeeps> http://wiki.maemo.org/Booting_from_a_flash_card#Remove_the_menu
Jun 26 15:22:52 <Macer> where was all this love for michael jackson when the world thought he was a pervert?
Jun 26 15:24:00 <RST38h> There is love for michael jackson?
Jun 26 15:24:08 <Stskeeps> Macer: well he was innocent according to the verdict, so
Jun 26 15:24:27 <RST38h> Sts: Just loved children sooooo much, didn't he? =)
Jun 26 15:24:49 <man_in_shack> is fiasco-flasher sufficient or do i need flasher-3.0?
Jun 26 15:25:09 <Macer> heh
Jun 26 15:25:22 <Macer> i know
Jun 26 15:25:29 <Macer> i dont think he was a pervert
Jun 26 15:25:33 <Macer> maybe nuts
Jun 26 15:25:39 <Macer> if one of the parents said... dont give us a cent. we dont want it. just send him to jail
Jun 26 15:25:48 <Macer> then i would have believed him to be a pervert
Jun 26 15:25:57 * RST38h wonders if wherever Michael Jackson went now he is kept in a jar filled with formaldehyde
Jun 26 15:26:40 <man_in_shack> wait a sec
Jun 26 15:26:57 <man_in_shack> does the mer installer flash its own initfs?
Jun 26 15:27:16 <Macer> RST38h: heh. well. i dont think his chemically altered skin decomposes
Jun 26 15:28:03 <Macer> i bet all his sorry ass family members are going to be clawing at his money
Jun 26 15:28:16 <Macer> except janet (the only other successful one)
Jun 26 15:28:28 <Stskeeps> man_in_shack: bootmenu installer does yeah
Jun 26 15:28:33 <man_in_shack> and maybe jesse
Jun 26 15:28:39 <Stskeeps> Macer: what money?
Jun 26 15:28:39 <Stskeeps> :P
Jun 26 15:28:50 <Macer> like the mlk jr family who sue people for using their uncle's picture on a t shirt
Jun 26 15:29:04 <Macer> Stskeeps: dont believe what tyou hear
Jun 26 15:29:08 <Macer> he had a ton of money
Jun 26 15:29:23 <Macer> even more so now that he died
Jun 26 15:29:24 <man_in_shack> Stskeeps, so running the bootmenu installer again should restore my wireless driver? :)
Jun 26 15:29:35 <Macer> i bet millions flocked to buy michael jackson crap
Jun 26 15:29:38 <Macer> like elvis
Jun 26 15:29:40 <Stskeeps> man_in_shack: we only modify initfs, not overwrite it
Jun 26 15:29:47 <man_in_shack> oh
Jun 26 15:29:58 <lcuk> is the comeback tour still on?
Jun 26 15:30:03 <man_in_shack> too smart for my own good
Jun 26 15:30:05 <Macer> lol
Jun 26 15:30:06 <man_in_shack> lcuk, of course it is
Jun 26 15:30:10 <Stskeeps> lcuk: MJ as one of the zombies?
Jun 26 15:30:12 <Macer> lcuk: yeah!
Jun 26 15:30:34 <man_in_shack> lcuk, first ever musician to do a "comeback from the dead" tour
Jun 26 15:30:40 <Macer> now they can have the jackson 5 reunion too.. where all of his brothers can exploit his death
Jun 26 15:30:42 <lcuk> if he can pull that one off, he deserves his title
Jun 26 15:30:51 <Macer> =)
Jun 26 15:31:36 <Macer> sing all their bullshit songs about how they loved michael
Jun 26 15:32:07 <Macer> show his pictures on a giant imax sized screen while murdering his songs with their own voices
Jun 26 15:32:17 <Stskeeps> gah.. i so understand why they dropped hildon-desktop like it's hot
Jun 26 15:32:23 <Stskeeps> as in, 2.0
Jun 26 15:32:39 <Macer> Stskeeps: they dropped it?
Jun 26 15:32:46 <Stskeeps> as in remade it for clutter
Jun 26 15:32:46 <Macer> no more hildon?
Jun 26 15:32:54 <Macer> oh
Jun 26 15:33:28 <Macer> could be worse. it could have the symbian gui
Jun 26 15:33:32 <man_in_shack> <Macer> sing all their bullshit songs about how they loved michael  << incest
Jun 26 15:33:37 <Jaffa> Stskeeps: is it cos it's a painful sack of shit?
Jun 26 15:34:01 <Macer> hilson is ugly
Jun 26 15:34:03 <Stskeeps> Jaffa: very unstable
Jun 26 15:34:14 * Stskeeps can crash it pretty decently atm
Jun 26 15:34:16 <Macer> but i suppose necessary for the screen space
Jun 26 15:34:55 <man_in_shack> well this download is going to take longer than i can stay awake
Jun 26 15:34:59 <Macer> Stskeeps:  make a qt based env
Jun 26 15:35:00 <man_in_shack> Stskeeps, thanks for your help so far
Jun 26 15:35:05 <qwerty12_N810> Stskeeps: X-Osso-Service=com.nokia.whatever-the-fuck will segfault it :\
Jun 26 15:35:11 <Stskeeps> Macer: the thought has crossed my mind.
Jun 26 15:35:15 <Stskeeps> did you see Qtablet?
Jun 26 15:35:16 <man_in_shack> some time soon i'll try compiling wpa-supplicant and wicd for maemo
Jun 26 15:35:20 <Macer> Stskeeps: no
Jun 26 15:35:29 <Macer> i dont have my n800 anymore ;)
Jun 26 15:35:39 <Stskeeps> Macer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAwmW6_G0TM
Jun 26 15:36:03 <Macer> ok
Jun 26 15:36:06 <Macer> will check it out
Jun 26 15:40:40 <Macer> omfg
Jun 26 15:40:48 <Macer> Stskeeps: that is awesome!
Jun 26 15:40:51 <Macer> lol
Jun 26 15:40:55 <Macer> use that!
Jun 26 15:40:57 <Macer> haha
Jun 26 15:41:19 <Stskeeps> except development kinda stalled
Jun 26 15:41:27 <Macer> then unstall it
Jun 26 15:49:41 * Stskeeps wonders what on earth libiphb is for
Jun 26 15:49:44 <Stskeeps> besides heartbeat stuff
Jun 26 15:57:02 <oespirit> Stskeeps: to render yet another package out-of-reach and unbuildable
Jun 26 15:57:14 <Stskeeps> oespirit: ah, but easily hackable
Jun 26 15:57:18 <Stskeeps> i just built hildon-home
Jun 26 15:57:30 <Stskeeps> with a bit of good old fashioned delete everything that moves
Jun 26 15:57:31 <Stskeeps> :P
Jun 26 15:57:51 <oespirit> Stskeeps: that applies to many of the things in the UI. wonder if they thought nobody would bother hacking
Jun 26 15:58:14 <oespirit> Stskeeps: keeping icons closed for instance, is just too much
Jun 26 15:58:57 <Stskeeps> ah, but that's sortof replacable
Jun 26 16:00:19 <oespirit> Stskeeps: precisely my point. Why keep things closed if you know people will get to them anyways
Jun 26 16:02:22 <Stskeeps> in this particular fashion i would say because of competition :P
Jun 26 16:02:52 <Stskeeps> it would have been a very possible thing that some random chinese manufactorer had fremantle beta and published before nokia's first device with it
Jun 26 16:03:48 <oespirit> Stskeeps: they can do that now with mer :P
Jun 26 16:04:37 <Stskeeps> nah, hardly as much as with a full fremantle :P
Jun 26 16:23:29 <GAN800> Stskeeps, can you imagine if the SmartQ shipped with Fremantle? ;)
Jun 26 16:24:08 <Stskeeps> i suspect that would single-handedly kill nokia involvement in open source
Jun 26 16:24:30 <Stskeeps> (there's a reason why we try to differentiate mer ui, really)
Jun 26 17:02:19 <lopz> hola
Jun 26 17:11:59 <Macer> Stskeeps: screw hildon.. use qtablet :-P
Jun 26 17:12:01 <Macer> lol
Jun 26 17:12:14 <Macer> it's so pretty
Jun 26 17:12:23 <Macer> it is going to make me buy an n810
Jun 26 17:16:54 <AStorm> Macer, linky?
Jun 26 17:17:12 <AStorm> why would it require n810?
Jun 26 17:17:29 <Macer> well. i gave Stskeeps my n800
Jun 26 17:17:44 <Macer> so why would i get another one when n810s are so cheap?
Jun 26 17:17:50 <Macer> :)
Jun 26 17:18:29 <AStorm> heh
Jun 26 17:18:32 * GAN800 throws up a little in his mouth at Nokia Android netbooks.
Jun 26 17:18:37 <AStorm> link to qtablet please?
Jun 26 17:18:45 <Stskeeps> GAN800: url?
Jun 26 17:18:50 <Macer> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAwmW6_G0TM
Jun 26 17:18:53 <AStorm> lol
Jun 26 17:18:58 <Macer> android netbooks?
Jun 26 17:19:00 <GAN800> Somebody needs to hand Android the smackdown. I'm more tired of it than I am of the iPhone.
Jun 26 17:19:05 <AStorm> Macer, nonyoutube plz?
Jun 26 17:19:20 <Macer> android would kind of suck on something that can run xp
Jun 26 17:19:28 <GAN800> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=300049
Jun 26 17:19:30 <Macer> hey
Jun 26 17:19:35 <Macer> i have an n800
Jun 26 17:19:42 <Macer> er
Jun 26 17:19:43 <GAN800> Android kind of sucks period
Jun 26 17:19:43 <Macer> g1
Jun 26 17:19:48 <Macer> lol
Jun 26 17:19:55 <RST38h> GAN: Any particular reasons?
Jun 26 17:20:01 <Macer> it is better than most phone operating systems
Jun 26 17:20:03 <RST38h> (other than the ones I know about =))
Jun 26 17:20:06 <Stskeeps> GAN800: analyst..
Jun 26 17:20:15 <Macer> i couldnt see it on a netbook tho
Jun 26 17:20:24 <GAN800> RST38h, didn't care for the G1 or the software, Google, Java, open source bs.
Jun 26 17:20:29 <Macer> but my g1 is great
Jun 26 17:20:34 <GAN800> (in no particular order)
Jun 26 17:20:49 <RST38h> Aha
Jun 26 17:20:51 <GAN800> RST38h, Android is like tegra
Jun 26 17:20:54 <Firebird> well isn't maemo turning into a phone os similar to android and iphoneos
Jun 26 17:21:02 <RST38h> Tegra is actually hardware though =)
Jun 26 17:21:12 <Macer> heh
Jun 26 17:21:24 <GAN800> Every fanboi gets wrongful feelings when they hear about it, but it's largely just hype.
Jun 26 17:21:24 <RST38h> Firebird: Maemo is turning into S60 replacement on high end Nokia phones
Jun 26 17:21:46 <RST38h> Whether you like this fact or not is completely up to you
Jun 26 17:21:46 <Macer> GAN800: ive been using android. it is good
Jun 26 17:21:56 <GAN800> Firebird, way more powerful than any of those.
Jun 26 17:21:56 <Macer> minus the lack of bt stuff
Jun 26 17:22:16 <GAN800> No manufacturer/carrier/developer impossed insanity.
Jun 26 17:22:25 <GAN800> Java, AppStore, whatever.
Jun 26 17:22:26 <Macer> like file xfering and i had to build it myself
Jun 26 17:22:34 <Macer> GAN800: you dont know that yet
Jun 26 17:22:43 <Firebird> yea, it may be coming soon
Jun 26 17:22:44 <Macer> it has a built in hspda modem
Jun 26 17:22:47 <GAN800> Who wants to bet there'll be absolutely zero issue tethering to an N900? :)
Jun 26 17:22:56 <Macer> why tether?
Jun 26 17:22:59 <Macer> :)
Jun 26 17:23:11 <Macer> the modem is built in
Jun 26 17:23:13 <GAN800> Because Comcast sucks ass
Jun 26 17:23:22 <GAN800> Macer, tether TO.
Jun 26 17:23:30 <AStorm> aaaah :)
Jun 26 17:23:34 <Macer> and i dont have much of an issue tethering my g1 to anything
Jun 26 17:23:36 <AStorm> yeah, that better work
Jun 26 17:23:48 <AStorm> see, bluez can tether
Jun 26 17:23:57 <AStorm> as long as tthere's a nice ui
Jun 26 17:24:03 <Macer> so can adhoc wifi
Jun 26 17:24:12 <Macer> with some iptables rules
Jun 26 17:24:26 <AStorm> that's not effortless
Jun 26 17:24:29 <Macer> and probably works more efficiently than bt tethering
Jun 26 17:24:46 <AStorm> that's true, though not power efficiently
Jun 26 17:24:52 <GAN800> adhoc eats power
Jun 26 17:24:54 <Macer> AStorm: it is when you have an app that has a "start tether" button
Jun 26 17:25:15 <Macer> not too badly
Jun 26 17:25:24 <AStorm> GAN800, that's why bt pan is better
Jun 26 17:25:49 <Macer> you could always get the larger g1 battery
Jun 26 17:25:51 <Macer> :)
Jun 26 17:26:06 <AStorm> and even bt dun - but I've no idea how to set that up w/ bluez
Jun 26 17:26:19 <Macer> if my g1 had printing support it would own all
Jun 26 17:26:29 <AStorm> nope
Jun 26 17:26:38 <AStorm> try to play a movie
Jun 26 17:26:41 * mgedmin had figured out once how to setup bt dun, but never had any success with pan
Jun 26 17:26:53 <AStorm> mgedmin, howto plz
Jun 26 17:27:05 <AStorm> pan is easy, just enable and route
Jun 26 17:27:08 * mgedmin sighs
Jun 26 17:27:15 <mgedmin> both are damn too hard
Jun 26 17:27:16 <RST38h> mgdemin: that is because os2008 does not support it out of the box
Jun 26 17:27:34 * mgedmin notices distinct deterioration in his grammar
Jun 26 17:27:44 <AStorm> mgedmin, yeah, a good UI would be much better
Jun 26 17:27:46 <Macer> i still cant see android on a ntbook
Jun 26 17:27:49 <Macer> netbook
Jun 26 17:27:58 <Macer> it would be rather pointless
Jun 26 17:28:00 <AStorm> nitbook? ;)
Jun 26 17:28:07 <mgedmin> fwiw the bt dun I'd set up was to get my palm tx to sync via bluetooth (using network sync) with my laptop; and it was some time ago
Jun 26 17:28:12 <Macer> no offense but i cant see mer on one either
Jun 26 17:28:38 <Macer> when you can just put debian or even better..opensolaris on it :)
Jun 26 17:29:40 <Macer> those types of operating systems are meant for the underpowered portable market
Jun 26 17:29:45 <Firebird> bleh, solaris
Jun 26 17:29:57 <AStorm> slowlaris would choke
Jun 26 17:30:05 <Macer> if you cant fit it in a pocket.. android and mer shouldnt be on it
Jun 26 17:30:15 <Macer> AStorm: i use opensolaris and it is great
Jun 26 17:30:30 <AStorm> debian with tuned set of apps is better
Jun 26 17:30:36 <RST38h> AStorm: Solaris adepts are saying they have fixed the PCI problem
Jun 26 17:30:36 <Macer> for what i do it is better than linux
Jun 26 17:30:38 <AStorm> Macer, 9n a netbook?
Jun 26 17:30:42 <RST38h> So it is fast now
Jun 26 17:30:43 <Macer> on a server and desktop
Jun 26 17:30:46 <AStorm> RST38h, finally!
Jun 26 17:31:36 <Macer> RST38h: they seem to have gotten stronger support from sun
Jun 26 17:31:45 <Macer> their pkging system is getting better
Jun 26 17:31:54 <Macer> hardware support is getting better
Jun 26 17:32:22 <Macer> and to top it off... it has zfs. that alone makes it better than anything else :)
Jun 26 17:33:04 <AStorm> not than btrfs
Jun 26 17:33:05 <AStorm> haha
Jun 26 17:33:11 <Macer> er
Jun 26 17:33:12 <AStorm> both are oracle's now
Jun 26 17:33:34 <Macer> unstable not released unusable in a stable enviroment btrfs? :)
Jun 26 17:33:48 <AStorm> define stable environment
Jun 26 17:34:04 <Macer> uhm
Jun 26 17:34:14 <Macer> i think that one is self defined
Jun 26 17:34:18 <AStorm> and btrfs is near 1.0
Jun 26 17:34:48 <AStorm> (though not feature complete yet, but the basics are covered)
Jun 26 17:35:52 <AStorm> (basics include RAID 0 and 1)
Jun 26 17:36:35 <Macer> Btrfs is under heavy development, and is not suitable for any uses other than benchmarking and review. The Btrfs disk format is not yet finalized, but it will only be changed if a critical bug is found and no workarounds are possible
Jun 26 17:36:47 <AStorm> blah blah
Jun 26 17:37:02 <AStorm> I haven't seen any important bugs recently
Jun 26 17:37:07 <Macer> lol. sorry buddy but zfs is tested and true
Jun 26 17:37:14 <AStorm> that is right
Jun 26 17:37:22 <AStorm> but it doesn't make it better :P
Jun 26 17:37:34 <Macer> sure it does
Jun 26 17:37:40 <AStorm> what makes is the raid-z and online fsck
Jun 26 17:37:52 <Macer> :)
Jun 26 17:37:57 <AStorm> (the performance otherwise is not that great)
Jun 26 17:38:14 <AStorm> (but not lousy either)
Jun 26 17:38:44 <Macer> i dunno. i get about 300MB/s
Jun 26 17:38:54 <AStorm> on what hardware :P
Jun 26 17:38:59 <Macer> but that is on an 8 port raid 5
Jun 26 17:39:02 <Macer> :)
Jun 26 17:39:03 <AStorm> and workload :P
Jun 26 17:39:06 <AStorm> haha.
Jun 26 17:39:32 <AStorm> well, I was able to max my SSD w/ btrfs
Jun 26 17:39:46 <AStorm> but not with ext4 or zfs or ufs2
Jun 26 17:39:55 <AStorm> guess why
Jun 26 17:40:03 <Stskeeps> zfs is more suited for multiple devices really
Jun 26 17:40:13 <AStorm> true
Jun 26 17:40:18 <AStorm> it's its aim
Jun 26 17:40:25 <ShadowJK> I am guessing you don't have a Intel SSD, or a OCZ Vertex
Jun 26 17:40:26 <Macer> because btrfs is great?
Jun 26 17:40:30 <ShadowJK> They're about the only non-crap SSD
Jun 26 17:40:31 <Macer> :)
Jun 26 17:40:42 <AStorm> ShadowJK, uhm, not only
Jun 26 17:40:49 <AStorm> but they are the best
Jun 26 17:40:57 <ShadowJK> The rest behave like an extreme case of harddrive, fast sequential speeds, brutally slow seeks
Jun 26 17:41:06 <Macer> i figured ssd was more about access
Jun 26 17:41:09 <Macer> than speed
Jun 26 17:41:14 <AStorm> slow seeks? why?
Jun 26 17:41:23 <Macer> no. fast seeks
Jun 26 17:41:30 <AStorm> there's no seek time on flashn
Jun 26 17:41:35 <AStorm> or almost none
Jun 26 17:41:37 <ShadowJK> Macer, yeah people think that, but it's only the intel and vertex series that actually have fast seeks
Jun 26 17:41:57 <AStorm> how do you measure seek time on ssd? :P
Jun 26 17:42:01 <Macer> ShadowJK: thought it was due to faulty controllers
Jun 26 17:42:02 <AStorm> there's no seek
Jun 26 17:42:09 <ShadowJK> Macer, nah, it's more to it than that
Jun 26 17:42:28 <AStorm> if you're talking random write, then yes, many ssds fail
Jun 26 17:42:37 <mgedmin> random write latencies in thousand of milliseconds may not be "seeks", but they suck
Jun 26 17:42:39 <AStorm> thanks to block sizes
Jun 26 17:42:45 <AStorm> and too small cache
Jun 26 17:42:48 <mgedmin> I've got an asus eeepc 900 with two ssd, both are horribly slow
Jun 26 17:43:06 <RST38h> <get a real laptop>
Jun 26 17:43:18 <AStorm> it has cheap ssd with no cache
Jun 26 17:43:22 <Macer> well. i am sure in an actual work env... the faster seeks are awesome
Jun 26 17:43:25 * mgedmin taps his thinkpad t61 on the side
Jun 26 17:43:25 <AStorm> and small block size
Jun 26 17:43:38 <mgedmin> there's that classical anandtech article about SSDs
Jun 26 17:43:39 <RST38h> T61.... <well, you know>
Jun 26 17:43:42 <mgedmin> recommended reading
Jun 26 17:43:42 <AStorm> also, ext3 is not optimized for ssd
Jun 26 17:43:46 <RST38h> URL?
Jun 26 17:43:55 <mgedmin> http://www.anandtech.com/printarticle.aspx?i=3531
Jun 26 17:43:57 <AStorm> for blocks larger than its cluster size
Jun 26 17:44:03 <VDVsx> GAN800, android development isn't restricted to java anymore
Jun 26 17:44:12 <AStorm> and it doesn't spread metadata
Jun 26 17:44:15 <mgedmin> ext3 + asus eee 900's SSD's ("ASUS PHISON" something or other) + 3 months == dead SSD
Jun 26 17:44:20 <Macer> VDVsx: lol
Jun 26 17:44:24 <Macer> lag? =)
Jun 26 17:44:25 <mgedmin> unreadable blocks where the ext3 journal used to live
Jun 26 17:44:29 <RST38h> mgedmin: thanks
Jun 26 17:44:36 <AStorm> true
Jun 26 17:44:45 <AStorm> that's why btrfs -o ssd wins
Jun 26 17:44:51 <AStorm> it spreads metadata
Jun 26 17:44:59 <AStorm> is copy-on-write
Jun 26 17:45:21 <GAN800> VDVsx, yeah, but it still sucks.
Jun 26 17:45:32 <Macer> i was waiting on more bullet points :)
Jun 26 17:45:44 <Macer> well... bbl
Jun 26 17:45:46 <VDVsx> GAN800, sure, but you can now use python, lua, C, C++ at least :P
Jun 26 17:46:04 <ShadowJK> The real issue is that SSDs have native sector size of a megabyte or so. Harddrives have 512 byte sectors. So in the worst case if you just want to change 512 bytes on the SSD, the SSD itself will read a megabyte and write back a megabyte. In worst worst case, it will read back, erase original, write new modified megabyte. This slows it down
Jun 26 17:46:11 <ShadowJK> If you just write sequentially it's fine and fast :P
Jun 26 17:46:12 <Macer> VDVsx: and install mer?
Jun 26 17:46:15 <Macer> :)
Jun 26 17:46:16 <GAN800> and Maemo still utterly kicks its ass
Jun 26 17:46:19 <AStorm> ShadowJK, wrong
Jun 26 17:46:42 <AStorm> you write it antisequentially
Jun 26 17:46:59 <Macer> GAN800: but maemo isnt as pretty
Jun 26 17:47:01 <AStorm> that is, split across as many eraseblocks as possible
Jun 26 17:47:07 <Macer> with accel docs
Jun 26 17:47:09 <Macer> lol
Jun 26 17:47:10 <VDVsx> Macer, mer is like java *runs anywhere* :P
Jun 26 17:47:11 <Macer> bbl
Jun 26 17:47:18 <Macer> hahaha
Jun 26 17:47:27 <Macer> VDVsx: so they say
Jun 26 17:47:28 <ShadowJK> AStorm, ah but most all SSDs are optimized for the sequential case, because that's the only thing that stupid reviewers and benchmarkers cared about
Jun 26 17:47:40 <AStorm> then still
Jun 26 17:47:45 <Macer> gotta go
Jun 26 17:47:49 <AStorm> it won't matter
Jun 26 17:47:52 <VDVsx> Macer, we can say the same about Mer :P, lol
Jun 26 17:47:53 <ShadowJK> The anandtech article is required reading :)
Jun 26 17:48:53 <GAN800> Macer, that statement is about as subjective as it gets.
Jun 26 17:49:01 <AStorm> the whole trick is to not rewrite same block all the time
Jun 26 17:49:06 <ShadowJK> btw, it's highly unlikely ext3 or any other fs will gain any meaningful SSD optimizations... Linus basically said SSD manufacturers have to stop being asshats and Get it Right(TM), like Intel did.
Jun 26 17:49:12 <GAN800> Jaffa, ping?
Jun 26 17:49:19 <AStorm> if the blocks are simply interleaved
Jun 26 17:49:27 <AStorm> it should be fast
Jun 26 17:49:39 <AStorm> say, every 8K gets to another block
Jun 26 17:50:21 <Luke-Jr> ShadowJK: wtf does that mean?
Jun 26 17:50:24 <AStorm> then you'd know where to place file data to only touch a single block at a time
Jun 26 17:50:34 <ShadowJK> Luke-Jr, read the anandtech article :P
Jun 26 17:50:39 <Luke-Jr> …
Jun 26 17:51:30 <ShadowJK> But basically, Sandisk and other "shut up we're the big corporation here and WE will tell YOU how to work around our piece of shit hardware"-companies said that operating systems must learn how to deal with flash storage efficiently
Jun 26 17:52:04 <Luke-Jr> my only problem is lack of a direct MTD interface
Jun 26 17:53:14 <ShadowJK> well you wont be getting it on SSDs :)
Jun 26 17:53:26 <AStorm> why not
Jun 26 17:53:29 <ShadowJK> The best you'll get is trim
Jun 26 17:53:36 <AStorm> some SATA extended command?
Jun 26 17:53:48 <ShadowJK> AStorm, because people want them to be bootable in PCs and to act like SATA harddrives?
Jun 26 17:53:58 <AStorm> duhduh
Jun 26 17:54:00 <ShadowJK> and because the Big Other operating system has no clue about raw flash?
Jun 26 17:54:03 <AStorm> add a new command
Jun 26 17:54:12 <Luke-Jr> ShadowJK: and they can't provide both interfaces?
Jun 26 17:54:15 <AStorm> to address the flash linearly w/o ftl
Jun 26 17:54:15 <ShadowJK> Luke-Jr, no
Jun 26 17:54:22 <AStorm> sure they can
Jun 26 17:54:27 <AStorm> but it costs
Jun 26 17:54:35 <ShadowJK> AStorm, the linear flash makes no sense to you
Jun 26 17:54:53 <ShadowJK> because a stream of random writes will be written linearly to the flash :)
Jun 26 17:54:54 <AStorm> and certain important OSes don't support anything
Jun 26 17:54:56 <ShadowJK> by the smart firmware
Jun 26 17:55:07 <AStorm> no no
Jun 26 17:55:07 <Luke-Jr> ShadowJK: you use either or
Jun 26 17:55:11 <AStorm> you don't get it
Jun 26 17:55:23 <AStorm> I said an extended command to bypass FTL
Jun 26 17:55:27 <Luke-Jr> heck, it'd be acceptable to have a replacement firmware
Jun 26 17:55:30 <AStorm> and have blocks in orde
Jun 26 17:55:31 <AStorm> r
Jun 26 17:55:37 <Luke-Jr> flash that firmware and you get MTD only
Jun 26 17:55:47 <AStorm> much like "disable ftl" command
Jun 26 17:55:59 <AStorm> another to get the block size
Jun 26 17:56:20 <ShadowJK> AStorm, yeah but you'd have to make a choice to always use either, you couldn't change between the two wihout a complete reformat
Jun 26 17:56:21 <AStorm> and then the OS can work with it
Jun 26 17:56:30 <AStorm> true
Jun 26 17:56:39 <AStorm> but the FS would be flash-based
Jun 26 17:56:54 <AStorm> with its own update layer
Jun 26 17:56:56 <ShadowJK> Luke-Jr, only place you'd want it is on the cheap SSDs, but the're too cheap to innovate anyway.. :(
Jun 26 17:57:01 <AStorm> so not vfat
Jun 26 17:57:03 <AStorm> :P
Jun 26 17:57:21 <AStorm> the problem is... partitioning
Jun 26 17:57:22 <ShadowJK> Dude, the cheap SSDs were designed for VFAT :-)
Jun 26 17:57:44 <Luke-Jr> ShadowJK: why the cheap SSDs only?
Jun 26 17:57:58 <AStorm> but unless the block is huge, the extended command could accept a range of values
Jun 26 17:58:01 <Luke-Jr> the filesystem layer is smarter than FTL
Jun 26 17:58:27 <ShadowJK> Luke-Jr, because VFAT is in the spec for MMC, SD and such, and cheap SSDs are, internally, basically a big array of MMC/SD chips in raid-0 configuration
Jun 26 17:58:44 <Luke-Jr> AStorm: I think UBD makes partitioning MTD ok?
Jun 26 17:59:11 <Luke-Jr> ShadowJK: [12:56:56] <ShadowJK> Luke-Jr, only place you'd want it is on the cheap SSDs, but the're too cheap to innovate anyway.. ☹
Jun 26 17:59:26 <Stskeeps> interesting, fremantle home has different views
Jun 26 18:00:26 <ShadowJK> Anyway... on the cheap SSDs their performance is so predictable/measurable that you can experimentally trivially determine the erase block size and other parameters that matter, and optimize your fs for that
Jun 26 18:01:02 <ShadowJK> there's, however, no fs suitable for it... and likely there wont be any either, as newer SSDs wont be as crippled, hopefully.
Jun 26 18:01:18 <ShadowJK> nilfs2 and LogFS might come close to running nicely
Jun 26 18:01:41 <ShadowJK> And it would be interesting if someone compared this on maemo with boot from SD, compared ext2/3 vs LogFS, for example :)
Jun 26 18:03:24 <ShadowJK> http://mirror.linux.org.au/pub/linux.conf.au/2007/video/talks/91.ogg <- this is a nice presentation on LogFS and the author touches on some of the "issues" and structures of flash storage :)
Jun 26 18:08:50 <AStorm> Luke-Jr, I
Jun 26 18:09:02 <Luke-Jr> AStorm: You
Jun 26 18:09:10 <AStorm> was talking about the SATA ranged switch
Jun 26 18:09:25 <AStorm> to disable some blocks from being FTLed
Jun 26 18:09:38 <johnsq> Hi
Jun 26 18:10:00 <johnsq> slonopotamus: do you need my patches for evtouch?
Jun 26 18:10:41 <pupnik_> any of you run ethernet over isdn telco cabling?
Jun 26 18:13:57 <AStorm> actually, copy-on-write is excellent on pure flash
Jun 26 18:16:41 <AStorm> a good flash controller would do garbage collection from time to time
Jun 26 18:17:12 <AStorm> have a separate block of NOR flash to store data about pages marked as free
Jun 26 18:17:23 <AStorm> and consolidate
Jun 26 18:17:45 <Luke-Jr> …
Jun 26 18:17:50 <Luke-Jr> why not just free them ASAP?
Jun 26 18:17:59 <AStorm> because you can't
Jun 26 18:18:09 <AStorm> thnatg requires rewriting a whole block
Jun 26 18:18:13 <AStorm> which is slow
Jun 26 18:18:24 <AStorm> so hide it from the user
Jun 26 18:18:35 <AStorm> do it on idle
Jun 26 18:20:42 <AStorm> this is where the TRIM comes in
Jun 26 18:20:56 <AStorm> to inform the drive about emptied pages
Jun 26 18:21:27 * Luke-Jr notices this is the same "problem" that originated with CD-RWs
Jun 26 18:22:15 <ShadowJK> Luke-Jr, oh, yeah, CD-RW is kinda similar :)
Jun 26 18:22:56 <ShadowJK> Though these days you could actually run ext2 on DVD+RW :P
Jun 26 18:23:15 <Jaffa> GAN800: pong
Jun 26 18:23:26 <ShadowJK> hm
Jun 26 18:23:35 * ShadowJK wonders how LogFS on DVD+RW would perform :-)
Jun 26 18:23:59 <Luke-Jr> you can run ext2 on raw flash too
Jun 26 18:24:03 <Luke-Jr> but it's not the best idea
Jun 26 18:24:11 <ShadowJK> slow :P
Jun 26 18:24:19 <Luke-Jr> and DVD+RW isn't slow? :þ
Jun 26 18:24:28 <ShadowJK> sure
Jun 26 18:26:13 <ShadowJK> So if you make a fs that runs fast on DVD+RW, it'll be fast on cheap SSD and on SD/MMC too :)
Jun 26 18:26:37 <Luke-Jr> exactly
Jun 26 18:27:25 <AStorm> ShadowJK, or btrfs
Jun 26 18:27:38 <AStorm> btrfs is copy-on-write, so should be fast
Jun 26 18:27:50 <Luke-Jr> is it?
Jun 26 18:27:54 <Luke-Jr> to what degree? ☺
Jun 26 18:28:13 <Luke-Jr> I think Subversion would make for an excellent FS
Jun 26 18:28:14 <AStorm> I think this includes metadata
Jun 26 18:28:27 <AStorm> no, it's read-only metadata
Jun 26 18:28:34 <Luke-Jr> …
Jun 26 18:28:41 <AStorm> so you'd lose space
Jun 26 18:28:56 <AStorm> that's why git can't be used as a fs
Jun 26 18:29:00 <Luke-Jr> ⁇?
Jun 26 18:29:07 <AStorm> unless you garbage collect old metadata
Jun 26 18:29:19 <AStorm> (and commits)
Jun 26 18:29:22 <Luke-Jr> why?
Jun 26 18:29:33 <AStorm> you'll run out of space
Jun 26 18:29:38 <Luke-Jr> eventually
Jun 26 18:29:45 <AStorm> on updates
Jun 26 18:29:46 <Luke-Jr> but I don't really want my FS deleting data on me anyway
Jun 26 18:29:52 <AStorm> even if you delete a file
Jun 26 18:30:17 <Luke-Jr> maybe if I tell it explicitly
Jun 26 18:30:25 <AStorm> btw, logfs is exactly what you describe
Jun 26 18:30:31 <Luke-Jr> perhaps an automatic cleanup that retains tags
Jun 26 18:30:43 <AStorm> plus grbage collection (very old versions are dropped)
Jun 26 18:31:03 <ShadowJK> nilfs2 retains data... or rather, it retains snapshots :)
Jun 26 18:31:09 <AStorm> yes
Jun 26 18:31:15 <AStorm> same idea
Jun 26 18:31:20 <ShadowJK> And there are tools so you can get it back too
Jun 26 18:31:24 <ShadowJK> I don't think logfs has this yet
Jun 26 18:31:46 <Luke-Jr> but do either have cheap copies?
Jun 26 18:32:28 <AStorm> sure yes
Jun 26 18:32:40 <AStorm> overwrite is same as copy
Jun 26 18:32:44 <ShadowJK> you mean cp -a sourcetree1 sourcetree2 resulting in near-zero space used until you go changing files in sourcetree2?
Jun 26 18:32:47 <AStorm> that's the cost
Jun 26 18:33:11 <AStorm> well, almost
Jun 26 18:33:23 <Luke-Jr> ShadowJK: yeah
Jun 26 18:33:34 <Luke-Jr> ShadowJK: and *fast*
Jun 26 18:33:34 <ShadowJK> Luke-Jr, I don't think so
Jun 26 18:33:37 <AStorm> overwrite also stores the modified blocks
Jun 26 18:33:46 <AStorm> much like git's deltas
Jun 26 18:33:59 <AStorm> this is ln
Jun 26 18:34:03 <ShadowJK> Luke-Jr, astorm is talking about what happens physically when you modify a single file
Jun 26 18:34:04 <Luke-Jr> ShadowJK: also, Subversion's format makes for simple backups
Jun 26 18:34:07 <AStorm> hardlink
Jun 26 18:34:35 <Luke-Jr> AStorm: hardlink + CoW is what I mean
Jun 26 18:34:49 <AStorm> hmm
Jun 26 18:35:01 <AStorm> I'd have to checl
Jun 26 18:35:03 <AStorm> *check
Jun 26 18:35:13 <AStorm> note that new metadata has to be added
Jun 26 18:35:39 <AStorm> a bit funny in extent-based system
Jun 26 18:36:28 <AStorm> but not impossible
Jun 26 18:37:07 <AStorm> btrfs has bcp to do this afaik
Jun 26 18:37:25 <AStorm> normal cp still does a full copy
Jun 26 18:37:39 <AStorm> snapshots can be CoW
Jun 26 18:37:58 <AStorm> I suspect they may switch all copies to this scheme
Jun 26 18:38:15 <AStorm> or provide an option
Jun 26 18:50:42 <Stskeeps> timeless_mbp: what was your l10n url again for the mer packages?
Jun 26 18:51:26 <Stskeeps> (i dont have logs on this client :/)
Jun 26 18:53:16 <Stskeeps> nm, found it
Jun 26 18:53:42 <Stskeeps> arh.
Jun 26 19:57:02 <infobot> I herald you, my supreme master! Lead us into the light of your wisdom and power
Jun 26 20:05:11 <VDVsx> infobot, wtf
Jun 26 20:16:58 <RST38h> "A company called PolyPlus has developed lithium metal-air batteries that have 10 times the energy density of regular lithium-ion batteries."
Jun 26 20:17:11 <RST38h> Anyone else sees TROUBLE there?
Jun 26 20:17:28 <Stskeeps>  boom?
Jun 26 20:17:51 <Luke-Jr> why?
Jun 26 20:18:17 <ShadowJK> RST38h, is that a news article that has been rewritten and quoted 10 times so that "power density" has turned into "energy density", or is it straight from sauce?
Jun 26 20:18:42 <RST38h> Shadow: If you can call Slashdot "the source"...
Jun 26 20:18:52 <Luke-Jr> LOL
Jun 26 20:19:18 <RST38h> But yes, it just has "kaboom" written all over
Jun 26 20:20:25 <ShadowJK> Ah, the company claims theoretical energy density is similar to that of gasoline
Jun 26 20:20:53 <Luke-Jr> how about replacing the battery with a wireless energy collector? ;)
Jun 26 20:21:00 <Luke-Jr> use the ambient energy in the area
Jun 26 20:21:18 <pupnik> kookery on youtube
Jun 26 20:21:19 <RST38h> Yea, right
Jun 26 20:21:26 <RST38h> Beam it from orbit
Jun 26 20:21:33 <pupnik> zero-point energy
Jun 26 20:21:38 <ShadowJK> Luke-Jr, you know, energy companies have actually successfully sued people who wirelessly leeched off of their transmission lines
Jun 26 20:22:20 <Luke-Jr> ShadowJK: uh... I didn't say off lines ;)
Jun 26 20:22:25 <Luke-Jr> just ambient energy in the air
Jun 26 20:22:37 <ShadowJK> Yes but that energy is radiated from something :)
Jun 26 20:22:59 <ShadowJK> anyway, that approach has the same problem as using existing Zinc-air batteries, which have superior energy density... no power :)
Jun 26 20:23:04 <ShadowJK> or insufficient power
Jun 26 20:23:23 <RST38h> zinc batteries are pretty good, for watches
Jun 26 20:23:28 <_Mayito_> hi all
Jun 26 20:23:38 <ShadowJK> for low power drain
Jun 26 20:24:02 <_Mayito_> someone can help me to flash my nokia n810 please?\
Jun 26 20:24:18 <ShadowJK> This is also the thing about Nokia's "ambient energy collection" device... the power it can provide is barely sufficient to keep the phone idling
Jun 26 20:24:22 <ShadowJK> ~flashing
Jun 26 20:24:23 <infobot> i guess flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware
Jun 26 20:24:29 <suihkulokki> ShadowJK: I was told someone in .fi dug a coil under a transmission line and used it to power his garden lights
Jun 26 20:24:34 <RST38h> Ambient energy stuff is mostly fake
Jun 26 20:24:37 <ShadowJK> suihkulokki, yeah :-)
Jun 26 20:24:40 <RST38h> But wireless power transmission is not
Jun 26 20:25:03 <RST38h> suihkulokki: Sometimes you do not even need a coil
Jun 26 20:25:07 <pupnik> highlighting text in browser is broken for me
Jun 26 20:25:18 <pupnik> sometimes i hilight. sometimes i pan
Jun 26 20:25:21 <ShadowJK> RST38h, well it's a zero-sum game.. you're leeching off of someone else :-)
Jun 26 20:25:24 <pupnik> impossible.
Jun 26 20:25:48 <RST38h> pupnik: tell us something new =)
Jun 26 20:25:59 <RST38h> Shadow: That I have no personal problem with
Jun 26 20:26:01 <suihkulokki> according to the story, they couldn't find a way to sue him, but they guy worked for a company owned by the power grid company which then promptly fired him :P
Jun 26 20:26:09 <ShadowJK> Like those "kinetic plates" that some supermarket in the UK was going to install in the parking lot to "go green and renewable". Cars and people moving over the kinetic plating generate electricity
Jun 26 20:26:27 <RST38h> Shadow: Nevertheless, unless you have a really powerful source there is nothing to leech
Jun 26 20:26:31 <pupnik> RST38h, if device had shoulder buttons, one could be used to toggle pan/hilight
Jun 26 20:26:53 <ShadowJK> BUT, that energy comes from the people (who in turn get it through this expensive sun -> plant -> animal -> processing -> processing -> processing -> microwave -> food chain), or from gasoline in the case of cars :P
Jun 26 20:27:03 <ShadowJK> so the supermarket essentially leeches energy from its customers :)
Jun 26 20:27:12 <RST38h> pupnik: you can do it with multitoch or limited multitouch
Jun 26 20:27:23 <ShadowJK> and it's not at all "renewable" or green until everyone is driving on green/renewable energy
Jun 26 20:27:29 <pupnik> k.  it needs fixing
Jun 26 20:27:35 <RST38h> pupnik: i.e. holding left bottom screen corner and selecting text with the second finger
Jun 26 20:27:47 <ShadowJK> frankly I wish the touchscreen would just emulate a laptop touchpad.. would work fine :P
Jun 26 20:27:47 <pupnik> hmm
Jun 26 20:28:03 <lcuk> pupnik, the multitouch example i give would allow that - but selecting text would be hard
Jun 26 20:28:10 <lcuk> it should be used on large ui elements really ;)
Jun 26 20:28:13 <RST38h> Shadow: You ever use laptop touchpad for mouse clicks?
Jun 26 20:28:27 <ShadowJK> and if you hold bottom left screen corner... why not have a button slightly below bottom left screen corner so you don't cover content on the screen :P
Jun 26 20:28:38 <lcuk> ShadowJK, because existing devices dont
Jun 26 20:28:41 <lcuk> twotouch works
Jun 26 20:28:49 <ShadowJK> RST38h, yes. And click+drag. Without the physical buttons
Jun 26 20:28:50 <RST38h> Shadow: Because n8x0 do not have such a button
Jun 26 20:28:57 <lcuk> the bottom corner can theoretically and practically act as a CTRL key modifyer
Jun 26 20:29:04 <ShadowJK> I can use it fine and I don't even have a laptop, heh
Jun 26 20:29:06 <RST38h> Shadow: You are abnormal then :)
Jun 26 20:29:14 * RST38h never uses touchpads for clicks
Jun 26 20:29:25 <ThatOneGuy> does anyone know how I can compile some code on my n770? I keep getting errors like "make: arm-linux-gcc: Command not found"
Jun 26 20:29:46 <ShadowJK> the touchpad click-hold-and-drag tap-sequence on touchpads is easier to accomplish than tap-and-hold on N8x0..
Jun 26 20:29:51 <RST38h> That: Maybe you do not have gcc installed? =)
Jun 26 20:29:59 <ShadowJK> I guess mostly because of lacking sensitivity on the touchscreen :)
Jun 26 20:30:08 <lcuk> ThatOneGuy, thar be dragons, but clean off your respositories to only standard nokia ones, then find the SDK repository on maemo.org respositories for your OS
Jun 26 20:30:13 <lcuk> and add that to apt
Jun 26 20:30:43 <_Mayito_> someone can help me to flash my nokia n810 please?
Jun 26 20:30:54 <pupnik> also need to have your dev filesystem on sd ThatOneGuy
Jun 26 20:31:30 <ThatOneGuy> pupnik: can I not put it on a usb drive?
Jun 26 20:31:36 <pupnik> _Mayito_, maemo.org has howto
Jun 26 20:31:38 <lcuk> pupnik, only if no freespace left
Jun 26 20:31:46 <lcuk> ThatOneGuy, no
Jun 26 20:32:22 <ThatOneGuy> lcuk, really? I guess Im stuck using scratchbox...
Jun 26 20:32:32 <_Mayito_> pupnik: Thank you I've already read it, but still I have some questions
Jun 26 20:32:35 <lcuk> such hardships
Jun 26 20:32:39 <lcuk> having a whole sdk available
Jun 26 20:33:09 <ThatOneGuy> well it'd be ok if I could get my kernel module to compile properly
Jun 26 20:33:23 <lcuk> you oculd probably never get a kernel built on device anyway
Jun 26 20:33:31 <lcuk> even with an updated device
Jun 26 20:33:46 <lcuk> it needs more than just gcc
Jun 26 20:33:49 <lcuk> and make
Jun 26 20:33:56 <ThatOneGuy> awe lame
Jun 26 20:34:00 <RST38h> suihkulokki,ShadowJK: Here, enjoy: http://hacknmod.com/hack/field-of-fluorescent-tubes-powered-by-ambient-current/
Jun 26 20:34:25 <lcuk> ThatOneGuy, whats lame about it?
Jun 26 20:34:30 <lcuk> and why do you need a new kernel?
Jun 26 20:34:51 <ThatOneGuy> I dont. I need to compile an external kernel module
Jun 26 20:34:59 <pupnik> _Mayito_, feel free to ask, man
Jun 26 20:36:00 <RST38h> Ehheheheheheheee
Jun 26 20:36:06 <RST38h> Ok, guys, you will absolutely love it:
Jun 26 20:36:10 <RST38h> "Android developers can now slip native code into apps written for Android-based devices using Google's new native development kit (NDK)."
Jun 26 20:36:25 <pupnik> ...
Jun 26 20:36:59 <_Mayito_> pupnik: I decided to flash the OS to the internal memory card, I think there is plenty space to hold the OS and all the software I need, so I just followed the little tutorial up to the partitioning part ... I did even already partitioned my internal flash card
Jun 26 20:37:21 <pupnik> k
Jun 26 20:37:42 <ShadowJK> RST38h, but do they get root access? :)
Jun 26 20:37:54 <lcuk> they will soon
Jun 26 20:37:54 <RST38h> Shadow: No idea, although you are welcome to try
Jun 26 20:37:59 <lcuk> activex here we come!
Jun 26 20:38:03 <_Mayito_> pupnik: although, my question is, the little tutorial asks you to format those two new partitions, which I did it
Jun 26 20:38:12 <ShadowJK> eh don't want to, maemo already gives me access :P
Jun 26 20:38:20 * ShadowJK isn't that keen on fighting with tivo-ized devices
Jun 26 20:38:28 <_Mayito_> my question is, which partition should I have mounted before the flashing ?
Jun 26 20:38:46 <ShadowJK> RST38h, yeah that guy is leeching power from the power company :)
Jun 26 20:39:09 <RST38h> Shadow: For artistic purposes, no more no less =)
Jun 26 20:41:56 <pupnik> _Mayito_, i dont know
Jun 26 20:42:53 <pupnik> i did not "flash" to my new partition, i copied the filetree
Jun 26 20:43:04 <pupnik> then flashed a new bootloader
Jun 26 20:45:03 <pupnik> _Mayito_, can you paste the url of the howto you are using, and tell us which step you are at?
Jun 26 20:46:11 <ThatOneGuy> so... file returns '...version 1 (ARM)..' for the modules that work, but returns '...version 1 (SYSV)..' for the one I've compiled. Anyone know why?
Jun 26 20:46:44 <pupnik> heh
Jun 26 20:46:56 <pupnik> at&t strikes
Jun 26 20:47:33 <ThatOneGuy> oh no
Jun 26 20:48:04 <pupnik> i think fanoush compiled some kernels/modules
Jun 26 20:49:53 <ThatOneGuy> err, I don't know who that is
Jun 26 20:52:08 <pupnik> noob
Jun 26 20:52:39 <pupnik> sorry, just wasting your time - google
Jun 26 20:54:04 <ThatOneGuy> looks like all the modules he compiled are for 800/810
Jun 26 22:37:29 <Maiku> hi, I'm trying to install compat-wireless-old on my n810, but having some issues compiling it, would this be the right place to ask?
Jun 26 22:39:12 <pupnik> or contact package maintainer
Jun 26 22:45:28 <Macer> lol
Jun 26 22:45:34 <Macer> what did i say
Jun 26 22:45:50 <Macer> now you have all the michael jackson death exploiters
Jun 26 22:45:59 <Macer> coming out the woodwork
Jun 26 22:46:29 <b-man16> where did this subject come from? xD
Jun 26 22:46:40 <Macer> all the ones that abandoned him when he was charged with baby raping
Jun 26 22:47:41 <Macer> i wonder how long it will take for some fake ass hollywood singer to dedicate a concert or album to him
Jun 26 22:47:49 <Macer> maybe a day?
Jun 26 22:51:19 <Maiku> when I try compiling wireless-compat-old, it complains about missing config.mk in /lib/modules/2.6.21-omap1/build in scratchbox
Jun 27 00:31:47 <man_in_shack> blargle
Jun 27 00:32:10 <man_in_shack> http://wiki.maemo.org/Booting_from_a_flash_card#Remove_the_menu << this didn't work
Jun 27 00:33:28 <GeneralAntilles> man_in_shack, case sensitive.
Jun 27 00:33:45 <man_in_shack> i'm aware of that
Jun 27 00:33:57 <man_in_shack> capital F, capital R
Jun 27 00:34:24 <GeneralAntilles> man_in_shack, well, either elaborate or I'm going elsewhere.
Jun 27 00:34:42 <man_in_shack> what part of "this didn't work" don't you get?
Jun 27 00:35:02 <man_in_shack> it's still got the bootmenu
Jun 27 00:35:39 <man_in_shack> ah, nvm, i missed a step
Jun 27 00:35:44 <LinuxCode> lol
Jun 27 00:35:52 <LinuxCode> GeneralAntilles, it doesnt work
Jun 27 00:36:02 <LinuxCode> ;-p
Jun 27 00:36:10 <Maiku> if no one knows about my compiling wireless-compat, does anyone have any suggestions as to where else I could ask?
Jun 27 00:36:14 <LinuxCode> always a good way to get help
Jun 27 00:36:40 <man_in_shack> LinuxCode, did you read the link?
Jun 27 00:36:40 <lcuk> GeneralAntilles, do the midget porn archivers society need you that much?
Jun 27 00:37:04 <lcuk> (now, question for you to ponder, is it midget porn actors, or just tiny archivists)
Jun 27 00:37:19 <LinuxCode> no, I was too much engaged in giggling after you said, it doesnt work
Jun 27 00:37:26 <GeneralAntilles> lcuk, pool pump needed attention.
Jun 27 00:37:32 * LinuxCode has a look
Jun 27 00:37:34 <man_in_shack> LinuxCode, then stfu and go fuck yourself
Jun 27 00:37:36 <GeneralAntilles> man_in_shack, :rolleyes:
Jun 27 00:37:46 <LinuxCode> ohh dear
Jun 27 00:37:48 <GeneralAntilles> man_in_shack, OK, second strike.
Jun 27 00:37:56 <man_in_shack> cos seriously, it's not that hard to comprehend
Jun 27 00:37:57 * LinuxCode closes the web page again
Jun 27 00:38:00 <LinuxCode> fine
Jun 27 00:38:02 <lcuk> :S man_in_shack got out of bed wrong side of the planet
Jun 27 00:38:12 <LinuxCode> guess you dont want help then
Jun 27 00:38:32 <lcuk> hey, lc you wanna have a tinker with the new lb framework
Jun 27 00:38:46 <LinuxCode> lcuk, no time mate, im at LinuxTag in Berlin
Jun 27 00:38:54 <LinuxCode> FUDcon tomorrow
Jun 27 00:38:55 <lcuk> i was there last year, whatcha up2
Jun 27 00:39:09 <LinuxCode> you were ?
Jun 27 00:39:12 <lcuk> yeah
Jun 27 00:39:13 <LinuxCode> ;-p
Jun 27 00:39:15 <lcuk> fluffing up a pres
Jun 27 00:39:16 <man_in_shack> GeneralAntilles, "it didn't work" is pretty self explanatory in context of the link
Jun 27 00:39:22 <LinuxCode> ohh wow cool
Jun 27 00:39:26 <LinuxCode> I didnt know that
Jun 27 00:39:28 <lcuk> man_in_shack, not really
Jun 27 00:39:33 <man_in_shack> yes if fucking is
Jun 27 00:39:36 <GeneralAntilles> man_in_shack, hardly, but I'm not going to argue with you about it.
Jun 27 00:39:36 <lcuk> since not everyone opens links
Jun 27 00:40:01 <LinuxCode> lcuk, we are running fudcon again in Berlin
Jun 27 00:40:08 <LinuxCode> started today
Jun 27 00:40:13 <LinuxCode> been here since Tuesday
Jun 27 00:40:14 <man_in_shack> lcuk, those people have no intention of helping people then
Jun 27 00:40:16 <lcuk> cool
Jun 27 00:40:50 <lcuk> man_in_shack, you ever heard of talking about a problem rather than sending them to pages.  sometimes it helsp find your own mistakes
Jun 27 00:40:56 <lcuk> as it did in this case you fuckwit
Jun 27 00:41:08 <LinuxCode> lcuk, easy now
Jun 27 00:41:11 <LinuxCode> not worth it
Jun 27 00:41:14 <man_in_shack> no it didn't
Jun 27 00:41:16 <GeneralAntilles> 20 questions is no fun.
Jun 27 00:41:20 <LinuxCode> just ignore
Jun 27 00:41:32 <lcuk> good point
Jun 27 00:41:39 <lcuk> ive been serene this evening
Jun 27 00:41:46 <LinuxCode> have you now ;-D
Jun 27 00:41:49 <lcuk> made a micro php forum
Jun 27 00:42:00 <lcuk> which accepts sketches as data
Jun 27 00:42:32 * GeneralAntilles recalls several people want web stuff from him.
Jun 27 00:43:11 <lcuk> well gan, i still know no more than last year, but i did manage to write a html parser
Jun 27 00:43:31 <lcuk> and the only page it could understand was my crappy hand written simple basic site :D
Jun 27 00:43:46 <lcuk> it got confused by anything more complex :D
Jun 27 00:43:47 <GeneralAntilles> I need to beat Mercurial into submission again to get MXR into shape
Jun 27 00:44:02 <GeneralAntilles> lcuk, yeah, I notice my design is still wasting away. :P
Jun 27 00:44:13 <lcuk> i cant modify it :'(
Jun 27 00:44:19 <lcuk> it hurts my ickle brain
Jun 27 00:44:21 <GeneralAntilles> and my page was handwritten, too.
Jun 27 00:44:32 <lcuk> with ninja magic
Jun 27 00:44:39 <lcuk> you mustv written it in american or somethin ;)
Jun 27 00:44:42 <LinuxCode> please dont mention html parser to me
Jun 27 00:44:44 <LinuxCode> lol
Jun 27 00:44:48 <GeneralAntilles> I my steal that design for another site.
Jun 27 00:44:50 <GeneralAntilles> http://liqbase.garage.maemo.org/working/
Jun 27 00:45:01 * LinuxCode wasted 30 mins to get a guy a slot today to talk at BarCamp/Hackfest
Jun 27 00:45:17 <LinuxCode> then he stays for the initial presentation, then drops out last minute ;-|
Jun 27 00:45:55 <man_in_shack> oh dear
Jun 27 00:45:57 <LinuxCode> writing a html parser that then changes it into perl or whatever other language you want
Jun 27 00:45:58 <man_in_shack> your life is over now!
Jun 27 00:46:04 <lcuk> heh i managed to talk for about 2 minutes, dropped my *handwritten* notes, got scared of the mic and ran away :)
Jun 27 00:46:13 <LinuxCode> lcuk, lol
Jun 27 00:46:25 <LinuxCode> at least you turned up
Jun 27 00:46:27 <man_in_shack> ok, this bastard still isn't flashing the initfs
Jun 27 00:46:46 <LinuxCode> we were pretty pissed, because some people didnt turn up
Jun 27 00:47:00 <LinuxCode> and happened to not inform any of us
Jun 27 00:47:01 <lcuk> yeah, i at least turned up and tried
Jun 27 00:47:19 <man_in_shack> the flasher is detecting the n810, i'm holding "swap" down while turning it on
Jun 27 00:47:57 <man_in_shack> http://dpaste.com/60285/ << tail end of flasher output
Jun 27 00:48:02 <lcuk> im bedding anyway, ill speak soon LinuxCode, have fun
Jun 27 00:48:04 <man_in_shack> it's not actually writing to the n810
Jun 27 00:48:27 <LinuxCode> kk later
Jun 27 00:48:30 <LinuxCode> I should go too
Jun 27 00:48:36 <lcuk> gnite GeneralAntilles \o
Jun 27 00:48:41 <GeneralAntilles> later
Jun 27 00:51:45 <man_in_shack> any ideas?
Jun 27 01:10:09 <man_in_shack> GeneralAntilles, any ideas?
Jun 27 01:11:18 <GeneralAntilles> man_in_shack, what command did you use?
Jun 27 01:11:34 <man_in_shack> the one from that damn page i linked
Jun 27 01:11:50 <man_in_shack> using statically linked flasher 3.0
Jun 27 01:11:58 <man_in_shack> ./flasher-3.0-static -F RX-44_DIABLO_5.2008.43-7_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin --flash-only=initfs -R
Jun 27 01:13:06 <GeneralAntilles> It looks like a malformed command error, but I can't really say
Jun 27 01:13:14 <GeneralAntilles> Can you pastebin the whole log?
Jun 27 01:14:04 <man_in_shack> http://dpaste.com/60288/
Jun 27 01:14:49 <GeneralAntilles> What are you flashing from?
Jun 27 01:15:25 <man_in_shack> amd64 debian system ...
Jun 27 01:16:26 <GeneralAntilles> Don't know
Jun 27 01:17:07 <GeneralAntilles> You can always flash it with the fiasco-flasher, though.
Jun 27 01:17:09 <GeneralAntilles> ~flasher
Jun 27 01:17:11 <infobot> extra, extra, read all about it, flasher is http://wiki.maemo.org/Flasher
Jun 27 01:17:24 <GeneralAntilles> fiasco-flasher -i <initfs jffs2 image> -f -R
Jun 27 01:17:40 <GeneralAntilles> You'll have to expand the FIASCO image and stick the initfs image on your tablet though.
Jun 27 01:19:29 <man_in_shack> can do
Jun 27 01:22:36 * man_in_shack throws GeneralAntilles a keg of good, australian beer
Jun 27 01:24:28 <man_in_shack> fiasco-flasher worked fine :D
Jun 27 01:33:34 <man_in_shack> acknowledge my gratitude already :P
Jun 27 01:40:20 <GeneralAntilles> I look at the AppStore and am continually unimpressed.
Jun 27 01:41:30 <man_in_shack> appstore?
Jun 27 01:41:36 <GeneralAntilles> iPhone
Jun 27 01:41:41 <man_in_shack> that's what i thought
Jun 27 01:41:46 <man_in_shack> did you see the new porn viewer?
Jun 27 01:41:59 <GeneralAntilles> Yes, saw it in top applications tonight
Jun 27 01:42:04 <man_in_shack> hah
Jun 27 01:42:09 <man_in_shack> it looks hilarious
Jun 27 01:42:39 <man_in_shack> seems to me like the "640k should be enough for anyone" of porn managers
Jun 27 01:56:20 <n6pfk> How do you get the on-screen keyboard displayed when when the keyboard is extended on the N810?
Jun 27 01:56:31 <man_in_shack> i don't think you do
Jun 27 01:56:53 <man_in_shack> i mean, if you've got the keyboard extended, why do you want to consume screen space? :)
Jun 27 01:57:15 <n6pfk> Because I want to, the reason is immaterial.
Jun 27 01:57:55 <man_in_shack> well, i'm pretty confident it won't let you
Jun 27 01:59:05 <AStorm> well, you can
Jun 27 01:59:21 <AStorm> I think
Jun 27 01:59:48 <n6pfk> I have had it pop up but don't know how to do it reliably.
Jun 27 02:00:07 <AStorm> hmm, at least in powerlaunch, not sure if in standard maemo
Jun 27 02:01:37 <n6pfk> I make fewer mistake and get fewer double keys when using it to type in a long command string in the terminal.
Jun 27 02:04:55 <man_in_shack> so contracting the keyboard temporarily is not an option either?
Jun 27 02:10:55 <n6pfk> Closing my the keyboard doesn't seem to automatically bring up the virtual one.
Jun 27 02:14:03 <xnt14> ~seen b-man16
Jun 27 02:14:05 <infobot> b-man16 <n=b-man@pool-71-124-32-204.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 3h 27m 37s ago, saying: 'where did this subject come from? xD'.
Jun 27 02:14:12 <xnt14> 3 hours? xD
Jun 27 02:14:20 <man_in_shack> no ... but hitting a text area will :)
Jun 27 02:15:34 <n6pfk> Why not just hitting a text area with it extended.  Seems natural to me.
Jun 27 02:24:13 <man_in_shack> because most people don't want their screen space consumed by something they already have
Jun 27 02:26:34 <ShadowJK> shift-space on the hw keyboard changes behaviour
Jun 27 02:26:41 <ShadowJK> i think osk starts popping up then too
Jun 27 02:26:56 <man_in_shack> i'll check it out
Jun 27 02:28:10 <man_in_shack> all that does for me is show/hide the bar that shows suggestions and current typing mode
Jun 27 02:29:49 <man_in_shack> also, it still registers as hitting space, at least in pygtkeditor
Jun 27 02:33:19 <ShadowJK> I didn't suggest shift-space would show/hide the osk
Jun 27 02:38:19 <man_in_shack> <ShadowJK> i think osk starts popping up then too
Jun 27 02:39:22 <ShadowJK> it changes behaviour
Jun 27 02:39:28 <ShadowJK> it doesn't trigger the osk
Jun 27 02:49:33 <n6pfk> Shift space seems to do nothing.
Jun 27 02:50:05 <n6pfk> Or at least nothing I notice.
Jun 27 02:50:24 <ShadowJK> I just tried it in an xterm
Jun 27 02:50:32 <ShadowJK> the statusbar went away, I tapped in xterm, osk came up
Jun 27 02:50:36 <ShadowJK> shift space, the osk went away
Jun 27 02:56:49 <man_in_shack> ok, maybe it wasn't registering my taps on screens correctly. i'll try again
Jun 27 02:58:24 <man_in_shack> ah, that was quite convincing
Jun 27 02:58:43 <man_in_shack> now i have the large finger-friendly osk :)
Jun 27 02:58:54 <man_in_shack> n6pfk, so yeah, shift space then tap in the text area
Jun 27 02:58:57 <man_in_shack> as ShadowJK said
Jun 27 02:59:41 <man_in_shack> i'm wondering if i can speed up my boot time ... e.g. disable the nokia logo with the hands and the music :P
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Jun 27 02:59:56 2009