**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Jul 15 02:59:57 2009 Jul 15 03:40:45 * ShadowJK reads up Jul 15 03:43:48 * Luke-Jr wonders if Jazelle helps GCJ-native-compiled Java code Jul 15 03:45:22 Luke-Jr, no Jul 15 03:46:10 jazelle is kinda like an intepreter in hardware Jul 15 03:46:24 or a partial one atleast Jul 15 03:46:25 ShadowJK: you have the docs? ö Jul 15 03:46:30 nope Jul 15 03:46:56 so how do you know? ☺ Jul 15 03:47:44 on the question of gcj I can say it doesn't help, because the gcc peopel don't have the docs either :) Jul 15 03:48:28 s/helps/can help/ Jul 15 03:49:38 jazelle dbx works quite well Jul 15 03:49:49 just wish there were more things that use it Jul 15 03:51:10 if docs were available, it might benefit java interpreters Jul 15 03:52:11 might?! it DOES Jul 15 03:52:36 problem is all the damn paperwork restricting what you can know about it :( Jul 15 03:52:39 Yes well, docs aren't available, so no open source java things support it? Jul 15 03:52:57 and heck, you can't even download closed source java vms that support it? Jul 15 03:53:11 nope. none zilch. IIRC, performance gain number are not publishable Jul 15 03:53:26 there are close source VM's that support it Jul 15 03:54:22 a JIT jvm is probably faster :) Jul 15 03:54:29 than a pure jazelle one? Jul 15 03:54:30 nope Jul 15 03:54:47 "For the avoidance of doubt, distribution of products containing software code to exercise the BXJ instruction and enable the use of the ARM Jazelle architecture extension without [..] agreement from ARM is expressly forbidden." Jul 15 03:54:52 the jazelle stuff is pretty fast Jul 15 03:55:12 ShadowJK: where did that come from? Jul 15 03:56:27 ShadowJK: good thing ARM can't forbid it except on people agreeing to such terms Jul 15 03:56:42 http://java.sun.com/javame/reference/docs/cldc-hi-2.0-web/doc/release/CLDC_HI-release-notes.html Jul 15 03:56:55 Oh that file is public Jul 15 03:58:12 is that entire package downloadable now? Jul 15 03:58:21 dunno Jul 15 03:58:45 'k Jul 15 03:58:55 wonder why google decided to do without jazelle if JIT is so much slower... Jul 15 03:58:59 you know, it'd be awesome start if someone packaged a midp environment for n8x0.. with any jvm behind it :) Jul 15 03:59:07 until proven otherwise, I'll shutup to not get in trouble Jul 15 03:59:15 johnx, I heard someone say Nokia also doesn't use it Jul 15 03:59:54 jazelle dbx could turn the 770 into a nice mean javamachine Jul 15 04:00:40 opera mini on Symbian is damn fast in the allegedly non-jazelle jvm :> Jul 15 04:02:50 but what's the point... jazelle is gone for NIT's after the 810 Jul 15 04:04:39 eh, opera mini is probably faster than tear and microb even if you'd run it fully interpreted with no jazella and not jit Jul 15 04:06:51 there's some java se trial available for diablo, IIRC Jul 15 04:06:56 most of the things written in java that I have to deal with at work just cause me pain Jul 15 04:06:58 leaves a bad enough taste in my mouth that I have no interest in seeking it out in my spare time Jul 15 04:07:08 I wonder how much of google's android browser is in C and what part is in davlik Jul 15 04:07:18 and replaced with awesome open DSP and fast video :) Jul 15 04:07:22 but that speed comes from server side optimization on opera's part Jul 15 04:07:28 unless I'm mistaken (known to happen) :) Jul 15 04:08:53 * ShadowJK doesn't know of any java se software he'd want to run Jul 15 04:09:29 mind, I don't ever remember having a computer capable of running java se stuff without giving the user the desire to stab self in face with a hot jaggy knife Jul 15 04:12:22 man Jul 15 04:12:27 i love this vpn shit Jul 15 04:12:27 heh Jul 15 04:12:57 hope my vaporbook comes with adhoc support and openvpn Jul 15 04:14:23 yeah, I haven't found one either, but I don't think the hardware is the problem Jul 15 04:14:45 you preordered a touchbook? Jul 15 04:14:59 vaporbook, nice name :-) Jul 15 04:22:28 just build one Jul 15 04:29:14 hm, where are the 3D printers the boffins said we'd have soon :-( Jul 15 04:32:32 not quite at consumer prices right now Jul 15 04:33:02 I know someone at the local university who has access to one that can print out something in 3ds format roughly the size of an action figure Jul 15 04:37:06 and by access I mean he can print out whatever he wants for personal use. if I get him something nice in 3ds format he said he'd print it for me Jul 15 04:37:21 they have ones that can print in ABS plastic too, which is good enough for a lot of interesting stuff Jul 15 04:37:44 Dimension? Jul 15 04:37:50 or Z-corp? Jul 15 04:38:41 dunno the manufacturer Jul 15 04:38:45 it's not mine :) Jul 15 04:39:38 you can get one for a mere $20K Jul 15 04:39:50 when the ones that can print ABS get down to 4 digit prices I think a lot of interesting uses will come to light Jul 15 04:39:58 but $20K is still kinda steep Jul 15 04:41:47 there is a cornstarch one that is about $12K Jul 15 04:42:11 which would be cool for prototyping Jul 15 04:42:20 how about a jello 3d printer, ftw? Jul 15 04:43:16 but for actually making usable parts ABS is a better fit (unless I don't really know that much about cornstarch based plastics? or jello based plastics :P ) Jul 15 04:43:21 or better yet, a leggo block dvd player Jul 15 04:43:26 3d I men Jul 15 04:43:42 listening to a podcast talking about dvds and blu-ray. Jul 15 04:44:11 windows ce = winmob? Jul 15 04:44:16 MaceSol: yes Jul 15 04:44:21 MaceSol: unfortunately Jul 15 04:44:38 never used it Jul 15 04:44:51 thought ce was better than mob Jul 15 04:44:58 or they were different Jul 15 04:45:16 the best windows ever harnessed the best parts of NT, CE and ME :) Jul 15 04:45:38 I've seen it. Everyone I know who owns it complains about how buggy it is and how they wished they got an iphone or something instead. Jul 15 04:45:44 was curious because i wanted to see what ms option there would be for an arm Jul 15 04:46:02 like an arm netbook Jul 15 04:46:18 they are still debating on making an arm build of win7 Jul 15 04:46:31 which is vista that doesnt suck as bad Jul 15 04:46:45 MaceSol: they could, because after all, NT was originally very portable. Jul 15 04:47:18 yeah, but I dunno what good it would do them Jul 15 04:47:18 NT had an Alpha version, and a MIPS version, I think a PPC version too. Jul 15 04:47:38 johnx: it would keep them from losing the netbook market more. Jul 15 04:47:48 at least that'd be the theory Jul 15 04:47:57 the performance would be unusable, no apps and no drivers Jul 15 04:48:15 even if they've actually been staying really portable behind the seens Jul 15 04:48:17 which I doubt Jul 15 04:48:24 johnx: there are no apps or drivers for android on ARM netbooks either. Jul 15 04:48:53 more apps than there are for Win7 on ARM Jul 15 04:49:07 EdLin: what drivers do you think are missing? Jul 15 04:49:49 dunno, how about the powerVR SGX drivers? or OMAP3 DSP support? Jul 15 04:49:50 ds3: I think he's refering to third-party hardware. If he means the manufactor hardware that'd be taken care of with any OS bundled by the mfr. Jul 15 04:50:19 yeah, but drivers take programmer hours in one place or another. MS doesn't just decide for them to exist Jul 15 04:50:52 johnx: if it's included with the hardware, it should more or less support the hardware. That is, if MS is serious about W7 on ARM. Jul 15 04:51:18 johnx: believe me, MS has enough money to write the drivers if they're serious. Jul 15 04:52:30 but I'm a bit sceptical about W7 on ARM, maybe they'll develop it though now that ChromeOS will support ARM, who knows. Jul 15 04:53:33 if they're making it to fight chrome-OS, they have a year to make the drivers. Jul 15 04:53:52 they probably could port Windows Mobile drivers successfully. Jul 15 04:53:56 I read an article about how ChromeOS/Android were helping Microsoft Jul 15 04:53:57 it would be a huge effort on their part, with totally disastorous results Jul 15 04:54:14 johnx: I'm not saying it'd be a success. :-) Jul 15 04:54:29 i'm still thinking about writing a replacement for maemo's connection manager that will work with wireless-tools and wpa-supplicant Jul 15 04:54:31 by creating a chasm between "netbook" and "laptop" that would end up with more people buying the "laptop" Jul 15 04:54:45 so i can replace my wireless driver with one that actually works :P Jul 15 04:54:49 the only thing MS makes a profit on is Windows and Office. Everything else is to keep people from switching to other platforms. Jul 15 04:54:51 where Microsoft can charge more for software Jul 15 04:54:54 if they had enough money to write the drivers, maybe they should spend it on 64bit drivers on x86 instead :-) Jul 15 04:55:41 or maybe nokia will open-source connection manager for chinook/diablo Jul 15 04:55:53 there are other connection managers you could use Jul 15 04:56:02 please don't start yet another connection manager project ... Jul 15 04:56:30 * Luke-Jr plans to! Jul 15 04:56:35 they all suck Jul 15 04:56:37 :þ Jul 15 04:57:16 Connection manager blows chunks Jul 15 04:57:17 man_in_shack, the fact that Luke-Jr suggests that it's a good idea is a much better warning against it than I could ever give Jul 15 04:57:38 f u johnx Jul 15 04:57:42 heh Jul 15 04:57:48 yeah WTFever Jul 15 04:58:09 buggy PoS.... had to toggle options to get that thing to start auto reconnecting again Jul 15 04:59:31 haha Jul 15 04:59:40 johnx, network-manager's "gtk" version has gnome deps Jul 15 04:59:43 do the other connection manager replacements support tethering? Jul 15 04:59:44 and wicd is ugly Jul 15 05:00:02 Luke-Jr, keep me posted :D Jul 15 05:00:11 man_in_shack: it's about 15 years down my todo list Jul 15 05:00:23 ah, so i'll start on mine then Jul 15 05:00:27 ok lol Jul 15 05:00:29 and get johnx to do testing for it ;) Jul 15 05:00:40 network-manager does tethering Jul 15 05:00:42 You know what the problem with nokia's connection manager is? it's too damn good. srsly. I wish I could have it on desktop too Jul 15 05:00:56 though on my work netbook I'm using wpa_supplicant set up to roam Jul 15 05:00:57 ShadowJK: BS Jul 15 05:01:00 speaking of tethering, has anyone gotten AP mode working on the NIT's? Jul 15 05:01:04 anything that requires interval scanning sucks Jul 15 05:01:04 turns out that handles 90% of cases Jul 15 05:01:33 ds3, no support for it in the drivers. Jul 15 05:03:06 networkmanager nukes /etc/resolv.conf atleast once a day, and there's no way to teach it what you want it to put there, it just makes shit up :-( Jul 15 05:03:21 (yes there's a bugzilla entry on this somewhere) Jul 15 05:03:53 unfortunately it takes some time to convince the nm people that it's a bug and not a feature :) Jul 15 05:03:54 every connection manager has to nuke resolv.conf one way or another Jul 15 05:04:18 s/nuke/control/ but they're synonyms, right? Jul 15 05:04:30 Like when it didn't support static IPs it was a feature until Linus Torvalds spent a week flaming them Jul 15 05:04:43 ROFL Jul 15 05:04:55 (and nokia's connection manager supports static IPs just nicely, yay) Jul 15 05:05:17 I was impressed by how user-friendly they made tethering. Jul 15 05:05:23 johnx: but didn't the driver get released? Jul 15 05:05:25 so comparing the past state of network manager to the current state of a closed source device specific network manager? Jul 15 05:05:53 ds3, yeah, but I don't think all wireless chipsets support AP mode Jul 15 05:07:25 johnx, well it's only halfway fixed :) It randomly kills networking or switches to dhcp a few times per month for me, as well as the daily /etc/resolv.conf nuke with no way to teach it what to put there :) Jul 15 05:07:35 'k Jul 15 05:08:08 ShadowJK, not all the way there for sure, but I think their dev versions are looking nicer than what's shipping now Jul 15 05:08:28 I guess I don't really see the need for *another* network manager, except for that whole NIH thing Jul 15 05:08:58 johnx: something that WORKS Jul 15 05:09:26 oh and then there was, I don't know if it's fixed now, fun feature that if you take interfaces away from networkmanager and manage them the old way, then nm decides to tell firefox and some other apps that "nope, the internet doesn't exist", and firefox/etc believes it and doesn't even try Jul 15 05:09:48 Luke-Jr, NM works for me on every system I've used it on recently. if it doesn't work for you maybe you could help them fix it to your spec rather than complaining in IRC? Jul 15 05:10:10 ShadowJK, ah, but nokia's thing is even more guilty of that :) Jul 15 05:10:15 johnx: I assure you, it's MUCH easier to complain on IRC Jul 15 05:10:54 Luke-Jr, I think you beat me to the point I was going to make. does that mean you won the argument? Jul 15 05:10:57 johnx, yeah but nokia's thing seems to actually work so I don't have to manage interfaces manually :) Jul 15 05:11:00 LOL Jul 15 05:11:27 heh Jul 15 05:11:37 ShadowJK, it's just painful dragging maemo code over to a system without Nokia's Connection manager Jul 15 05:11:37 google is widdling their way in Jul 15 05:11:59 soon they will gain momentum and support and ms will seriously be on their toes Jul 15 05:13:00 or, you know, Chrome OS will be web-based, and people get fed up with it when they discover the wonderful world of latency and packetloss once they step outside google's LAN... Jul 15 05:13:01 if they get some people making good games for it then they might realistically be able to give ms a run for its money seeing as games are a major draw to win Jul 15 05:13:01 I think bing.com is a sign that MS is on their toes Jul 15 05:13:23 ShadowJK: i think it will also have local type stuff Jul 15 05:13:35 offline web apps Jul 15 05:13:37 it cant all be server client based Jul 15 05:13:42 johnx: haha Jul 15 05:13:48 yah i guess :) Jul 15 05:14:02 depends. have to see what theyre trying to do Jul 15 05:14:08 so have to wait Jul 15 05:14:09 not that *I'd* want to use them, but they honestly cover a huge chunk lots of people use their computers for Jul 15 05:14:23 it's sad that we live in 2009 and you still have to wait half a minute on some webpages to load all their itsy bitsy tiny pieces of js and css from slowass adservers Jul 15 05:14:29 i use chrome on my xp netbook ;) Jul 15 05:14:43 it is better than ie and ff imo Jul 15 05:14:53 ShadowJK: haha Jul 15 05:14:59 better than the worst two browsers, oh boy Jul 15 05:15:00 so true Jul 15 05:15:14 Luke-Jr: better than safari and opera too Jul 15 05:15:16 hah Jul 15 05:15:29 MaceSol: o rly? still not better than Konqueror! Jul 15 05:15:35 Safari is nice on OS X, it is fail on Windows. Jul 15 05:15:44 Although the websites with monstrously huge blobs of (mostly unrelated) javascript that take half a minute to initialize on a c2q 9550 before the website (and browser) unfreezes are a new modern invention, I guess :) Jul 15 05:15:46 Luke-Jr, did they ever fix that rendering bug on the one bugs page? Jul 15 05:15:51 new safari kind of sucks Jul 15 05:15:53 brb Jul 15 05:15:54 johnx: ? Jul 15 05:16:16 Safari 4 on the Mac is pretty good, I actually use Firefox 3.5 instead. Jul 15 05:16:23 you were trying to file a bug a couple months ago, I was always curious if the problem was a browser rendering glitch or not Jul 15 05:19:47 i filed a ton of bugs for maemo Jul 15 05:19:48 haha Jul 15 05:20:00 then i gave my n800 to Stskeeps Jul 15 05:20:51 unfortunately zimbra seems to base its main client base on ie Jul 15 05:21:17 i had to file a bug in order for them to fix the spreadsheet interface for other browsers Jul 15 05:21:38 zimbra would be so awesome if it just had the small things fixed Jul 15 05:21:43 maybe by 9.0 Jul 15 05:21:45 heh Jul 15 05:22:16 maybe google will buy it! i know i was worried when ms was thinking about buying yahoo Jul 15 05:22:41 because they would have closed all of zimbra off haha and swept it into the garbage Jul 15 05:22:42 in other good browser news: youtube is dropping IE6 support. :) Jul 15 05:24:16 lol Jul 15 05:24:21 thats good? Jul 15 05:24:32 the lower the # .. the better it is Jul 15 05:24:35 haha Jul 15 05:26:45 well. going to see about a vpn client for android haha Jul 15 05:26:59 that would be neat Jul 15 05:30:05 MaceSol: Google is even worse than Zimbra Jul 15 05:51:18 morning Jul 15 07:05:56 how to use git checkout qemu-omap3 from https://git.maemo.org/projects/qemu Jul 15 07:33:53 I herald you, my supreme master! Lead us into the light of your wisdom and power Jul 15 09:07:27 anyone planning on helping with the OBS native-compile packaging for Mer? Jul 15 09:07:46 jeremiah_: ^^ Jul 15 09:08:48 lol lbt, subtle Jul 15 09:08:57 moi? Jul 15 09:09:16 think he's at debconf :( Jul 15 09:09:48 ehlo all Jul 15 09:14:49 sender address rejected Jul 15 09:16:49 hi RST38h... fancy some packaging work for Mer? Jul 15 09:29:44 hiya Meizirkki, qwerty12 \o Jul 15 09:29:58 hullo lcuk2 Jul 15 09:33:42 qwerty12, you have ~8 weeks to new college? Jul 15 09:34:59 lcuk2: Yep :) Jul 15 09:35:46 did you get in the one you wanted?> Jul 15 09:36:10 Yes :) Jul 15 09:38:46 which? Jul 15 09:39:30 Havering Sixth Form Jul 15 09:39:44 I have to drag my ass there today actually Jul 15 09:42:20 Hi, i'm trying to get gtkmm working with maemo Jul 15 09:42:46 But i cannot find hildonmm or gtkmm package by using apt-get Jul 15 09:44:25 Are you using Scratchbox? If so, do you have the correct entries for Extras in sources.list? Jul 15 09:45:20 I'm using scratchbox Jul 15 09:45:35 Gotta check what i have inside my sources.list Jul 15 09:45:51 deb http://repository.maemo.org/extras/ diablo free non-free Jul 15 09:47:27 thanks Jul 15 09:47:30 Oh, I guess adding "deb-src http://repository.maemo.org/extras/ diablo free" will make things nicer too Jul 15 09:48:40 Thanks for really fast help :) Jul 15 09:50:52 qwerty12, only you goin, or a few of your mates? Jul 15 09:51:09 lbt: I'd love to help - limited bandwidth at the moment. Jul 15 09:51:33 lcuk2: Only me. :\ Mates have to go tommorrow (grr...) Jul 15 09:52:34 i didnt mean today, i meant next year itself, sometimes your mates go same place, othertimes you are left to fend for yourself Jul 15 09:53:05 Ah. Yep, I've got a few coming :) Jul 15 09:53:32 And no debconf for me this year. :( Next year for sure though; New York City, my old hometown. Jul 15 09:54:00 jeremiah_, the package search looks great, all we need is for autobuilder to start running apps and grabbing screenshots (or get them submitted via users after manual install ;)) Jul 15 09:59:07 jeremiah_: it's a shame - it's really holding back Mer at the moment. And we need some debian packaging knowledge. Are you around on sunday? Jul 15 10:00:26 bleh, tear is being a bitch Jul 15 10:00:54 Hi everyone, is there anyone here that could help me with something re. recompiling the kernel for a Nokia N810? Jul 15 10:12:58 wtf Jul 15 10:13:08 n810 is not getting dns server address or something Jul 15 10:15:54 heya maemo Jul 15 10:18:45 X-Fade: does bugzilla allow anonymous email cc's ? Jul 15 10:20:08 lbt: Yes and no. Jul 15 10:20:14 :) Jul 15 10:20:27 I have a reporter I was trying to add his email to cc Jul 15 10:20:31 lbt: You can configure to hide emails when not logged in for instance. Jul 15 10:20:32 he's not registered Jul 15 10:20:48 Ah, yeah you need to be registered. Jul 15 10:21:00 Otherwise you would be spamming someone. Jul 15 10:21:40 lbt: As they don't have an option to remove themselves :) Jul 15 10:21:42 Awesome Jul 15 10:21:48 why on earth does my n810 drop wireless after there's been a period of quiet Jul 15 10:21:52 it'll still say it's connected Jul 15 10:21:57 but i can't ping/resolve anything Jul 15 10:22:18 My n81's browser refuses to allow me to delete certain bookmarks Jul 15 10:22:25 X-Fade: OK... Jul 15 10:22:27 badtimes Jul 15 10:22:58 he's registering anyhow... Jul 15 10:27:23 amr-, might be some other problem, i can pickup my 810 after (days) of inactivity and its still all connected and fine Jul 15 10:27:42 * lcuk2 finally saw the light and got a router Jul 15 10:28:06 the other side might also disconnet the wireless Jul 15 10:29:52 lbt, whats the holdup, is it purely grunt work? is there no way tobuild and store completed members, or is it vital to build everything every time (and incur the 20+hour delay for those certain packages every single time) Jul 15 10:31:17 lcuk2, hmm how annoying Jul 15 10:31:23 mine seems to die after 20 minutes or something Jul 15 10:31:30 i left it over night and it was still connected Jul 15 10:31:52 but i couldnt actually do anything, internet-wise Jul 15 10:32:51 cool jazelle new! Jul 15 10:33:18 * X-Fade hands keesj an 's' ;) Jul 15 10:33:49 lcuk2, where can i find the latest copy of liqbase to have a play with? Jul 15 10:33:58 keesj: But interesting indeed. Jul 15 10:34:01 i need to do new things with my tablet :p Jul 15 10:34:46 amr-, theres a package in extras-devel called liqbase-playground, and theres my git withlater code Jul 15 10:35:03 oic Jul 15 10:35:09 i'll have a play, thanks Jul 15 10:35:20 but in a few weeks the next stage should drop in too :) Jul 15 10:35:26 oo :) Jul 15 10:35:34 has anyone used libliqbase for their project yet? Jul 15 10:35:36 * lcuk2 whacks curl on the head Jul 15 10:35:52 hello world Jul 15 10:35:58 hello Jul 15 10:36:02 could someone tell me what language this article was written in: http://usabilityprinciples.edublogs.org/2009/07/14/about-fennec-browser-mozilla-mobilizes-a-net-lady/ Jul 15 10:36:13 zach has been writing his net monitor, and kotzzcarny has got his image viewer Jul 15 10:36:23 have they been released? Jul 15 10:36:40 im not a developer so i feel out of the loop :p Jul 15 10:36:51 i keep meaning to get started Jul 15 10:37:24 theres a load of different interactions inside the playground that are being tied together atm Jul 15 10:37:24 Java has nice security features Jul 15 10:37:36 lol Jul 15 10:37:42 java ;) Jul 15 10:37:57 lol keesj indeed it does Jul 15 10:38:18 iron chastity belts also provide a level of security Jul 15 10:40:33 * keesj has been digging into binarie format. it's just like lock-picking once you know how easy it is you dont' feel safe any more Jul 15 10:44:57 lcuk2: it's the same reason scratchbox has /scratchbox/bin/* but we do it better Jul 15 11:50:21 * lcuk2 tosses a coin Jul 15 11:54:53 Q: In my scratchbox sb-menu I don't have any cpu transparency options. How do you fix it? Jul 15 12:42:30 is there a spotify client for maemo? Jul 15 13:28:50 * man_in_ltop waves Jul 15 13:47:53 lbt: ping? Jul 15 14:25:52 fiferboy: hi Jul 15 14:26:17 lbt: I really like working with git now Jul 15 14:26:22 :) Jul 15 14:26:24 It's amazing, isn't it? Jul 15 14:26:29 you got the hang of it Jul 15 14:26:37 Did you read "Git From The Bottum Up"? Jul 15 14:26:41 It is once I finally got it, now I don't want to go back Jul 15 14:26:44 yes, I was priviliged to be in at the start Jul 15 14:26:54 coldboot: No, I haven't read that one Jul 15 14:26:56 fiferboy: There really is no reason to use any other version control system. Jul 15 14:27:09 http://whygitisbetterthanx.com/ Jul 15 14:27:25 lbt: I am almost ready to submit a patch for fingerscroll Jul 15 14:27:35 overshoot limits (in a functional define) Jul 15 14:28:12 I think fingerscroll should be functional-define bound... overshoots and the like should probably just be 'right' Jul 15 14:28:26 I have been making the changes in a local fingerscroll branch, commiting the change locally, switching to a build branch and merging before building Jul 15 14:28:43 excellent Jul 15 14:28:48 how's that working? Jul 15 14:28:56 It works great! Jul 15 14:29:12 So, when I am ready to submit do I push from my local fingerscroll branch? Jul 15 14:29:23 do what coldboot did Jul 15 14:29:34 Create a clone and request a merge? Jul 15 14:29:36 and create your very own gitorious clone Jul 15 14:29:41 yes Jul 15 14:29:59 Alright Jul 15 14:30:11 BTW, I think we should look at the patches in debian/patch and move them to branches Jul 15 14:30:21 fiferboy: And you want to make sure to merge back to the correct branch, but you need to download from THAT branch. Jul 15 14:30:23 (I mainly think that 'cos they're breaking the Mer build) Jul 15 14:30:33 correct Jul 15 14:30:52 When I am switching back and forth between my build branch on fingerscroll branch and doing the local commit Jul 15 14:31:05 It looks like git is treating it all as a single change, which I am fine with Jul 15 14:31:23 I git pulled origin/qt-diablo, which fully builds debian packages and compiles, but I had to download origin/hildon-input-method and `git cherry-pick` my commits from qt-diablo over to hildon-input-method, then `git push` Jul 15 14:31:44 But when I get the overshoot limit finished and start working on the infinite oscillations, I want that as a separate change Jul 15 14:31:49 How do I go about that? Jul 15 14:31:52 coldboot: that's because you didn't commit to the right branch Jul 15 14:32:01 fiferboy: each commit is a change Jul 15 14:32:15 you need to carefully 'squash' if you don't want to do that Jul 15 14:32:29 gitk --all helps see this stuff really well Jul 15 14:32:31 lbt: So I should have committed to hildon-input-method, I guess, while switching over to qt-diablo before to build and test. Jul 15 14:32:41 coldboot: yes, exactly Jul 15 14:32:45 Cool Jul 15 14:32:48 but as you saw Jul 15 14:32:58 it's not hard to cherry pick when you cock up Jul 15 14:33:01 coldboot: I did it that way, commit to the fingerscroll branch and merge to the build branch to test Jul 15 14:33:03 I don't know why people use Mercurial if it's missing the staging area and cheap branching. Jul 15 14:33:27 lbt: Yeah, it's a great feature. Jul 15 14:33:39 fiferboy: I would be very surprised if you have a single change Jul 15 14:33:55 lbt: 'git show' shows all the changes as a single 'patch', but that misses the separate commits? Jul 15 14:34:04 git log Jul 15 14:34:23 ah, that shows the commits, thanks Jul 15 14:34:27 and you may not want to air your dirty coding in public Jul 15 14:34:42 so squash is worth looking at (I wish I had sometimes!!) Jul 15 14:35:00 it's in git rebase Jul 15 14:35:01 So I definitely need to squash, I have way too many changes back and forth for such a simple fix! Jul 15 14:35:26 essentially it does a diff from the 'source' to HEAD Jul 15 14:35:31 then reset to source Jul 15 14:35:35 then applies the diff Jul 15 14:35:52 That's what I want. Jul 15 14:35:53 http://www.kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-rebase.html Jul 15 14:36:04 Now, I have to set up my birdlist project to use git! Jul 15 14:37:01 http://blog.madism.org/index.php/2007/09/09/138-git-awsome-ness-git-rebase-interactive Jul 15 14:37:48 coldboot: you wanted to remove a commit too - this is what you could have done Jul 15 14:38:12 lbt: Squashing them together? Jul 15 14:38:28 lbt: Oh, git rebase, yeah I figured that one out. Jul 15 14:38:32 no rebase --interactive ^^^ link Jul 15 14:39:11 I wonder if we should rebase mer-fingerscrolling before gnuton merges it ever Jul 15 14:39:18 probably too late Jul 15 14:39:38 lbt: You think there are too many commits? Jul 15 14:39:51 it's messy Jul 15 14:40:12 my experimentation with Qt is all in there ;) Jul 15 14:40:23 I'm thinking about keeping the infinite oscillations as a feature - it can be relaxing ;) Jul 15 14:40:45 hehe Jul 15 14:40:51 Yeah I used `rebase -i` and it was amazing. I've always wanted that. Jul 15 14:41:08 Of course if you have it oscillating too fast it could make you sick :( Jul 15 14:41:11 There really is absolutely no reason to use anything other than git. Jul 15 14:41:30 People say "I don't need all those features and complexity", but I'd say that everyone ends up needing them at some point. Jul 15 14:41:43 I don't know how Windows users use it Jul 15 14:41:55 and Qt is cross-platform Jul 15 14:42:02 and this came up for smartmontools too Jul 15 14:42:05 I don't know how they use Windows or write code for Windows at all. Jul 15 14:43:19 Without GNU tools it's pretty hard to do anything useful. Jul 15 14:44:08 yes, I always use cygwin Jul 15 14:44:36 lbt: Is there a way to build "in the command shell" from cygwin, and have the output go to cygwin? Jul 15 14:45:07 For many things, you actually have to run make in cmd.exe, I'm wondering if I can do the equivalent in cygwin, because running make in cygwin brings up compiler errors. Jul 15 14:46:37 I never do things like that on windows... I only use it for worl Jul 15 14:46:39 k Jul 15 14:49:15 Like you don't build on it? Jul 15 14:49:25 I only use it for work, and computer games, but I have to build stuff on it. Jul 15 14:51:02 anyone has problems with pygtk? Jul 15 14:51:05 no, I only use windows to run outlook/office and other work applications. Don't posses a windows machine (>4 years now) Jul 15 14:51:13 i get 'undefined symbol: gtk_about_dialog_get_documenters' on 'import gtk' Jul 15 14:51:41 l8r... off to kick OBS some mot Jul 15 14:51:44 more Jul 15 14:57:24 http://www.mobileshop.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/american-filing-shows-pink-nokia-n97-is-on-the-way.jpg Jul 15 14:57:40