**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Jul 19 02:59:57 2009 Jul 19 03:01:34 mpd is a background program which plays music in the background Jul 19 03:01:35 and Jul 19 03:01:45 sonata is a nice gui interface to mpd Jul 19 03:02:02 by the way mpd stands for music player daemon Jul 19 03:02:04 :P Jul 19 03:02:43 i know Jul 19 03:02:55 but i thought that runs on a desktop and sonata is a remote? Jul 19 03:03:24 mpd can run on the device itself too Jul 19 03:03:55 interestin' Jul 19 03:04:00 sometimes, I run mpd on my nit and I run sonata on my desktop for easy song change Jul 19 03:04:21 https://garage.maemo.org/projects/mpd/ Jul 19 03:04:32 and sonata is in the repos Jul 19 03:04:48 great, thanks Jul 19 03:04:51 just download all the debs onto the nit and install via app manager or dpkg Jul 19 03:04:56 np :) Jul 19 03:05:22 you just need the deb files from the mpd section and the libs section ;) Jul 19 03:05:35 mpc is for command line controll Jul 19 03:06:00 and a2dpd is for stereo bt headphones Jul 19 03:06:19 oh, i am old fashioned and use wires. Jul 19 03:06:25 I have a Bose QC3. Jul 19 03:06:56 That thing, while pricey, is almost mandatory for longer flights Jul 19 03:07:08 well, I want to get a motorokr s9 :P Jul 19 03:07:09 brb Jul 19 03:07:28 I wear glasses and also hate sticking anything in my ear, which pretty much reduces the available noise cancelling headphones to the QC3. Jul 19 03:20:44 im back Jul 19 03:21:41 :P I also wear glasses, and I'm stuck with apple earphones, I really want to get a motorokr s9 but my parents won't let me get one :P Jul 19 03:22:53 I think I wouldn't mind digitizing many of my inputs Jul 19 03:23:00 at least eyes and ears Jul 19 03:23:30 chx: Maemo doesn't have any decently usable software, really. Jul 19 03:23:55 Luke-Jr: I think I have learned about your attitude yesterday and I am not buying it Jul 19 03:24:15 chx: fine, learn the hard way :þ Jul 19 03:24:23 i had an n810. it worked. Jul 19 03:24:30 as said, it's not perfect. Jul 19 03:24:31 N810 Maemo is unmaintained anyway Jul 19 03:24:36 there is nothing else. Jul 19 03:24:38 modern Maemo versions don't support the N810 anymore Jul 19 03:24:44 and...? Jul 19 03:25:03 there are a number of N810 users still and they will support Jul 19 03:25:09 heck, there are 770 users even. Jul 19 03:25:43 lol Jul 19 03:25:53 hmm Jul 19 03:26:07 twitter fail (for now xD) http://smarterware.org/2486/when-you-put-data-in-you-should-be-able-to-get-it-out Jul 19 03:26:17 * xnt14 backs up his tweets Jul 19 03:26:48 chx: they have already said they WON'T support it Jul 19 03:27:10 chx, are you a linux user? Jul 19 03:28:06 Luke-Jr: who are the "they"? Everybody who owns an N810 and codes for it? dont be silly Jul 19 03:28:09 xnt14: since 1993. Jul 19 03:28:15 chx: Nokia Jul 19 03:28:20 Luke-Jr, Mer is maemo5 for the n8x0, and when the n900 comes out, ill buy it and give my nit to my dad, its not outdated Jul 19 03:28:26 [20:25] there are a number of N810 users still and they will support Jul 19 03:28:34 chx, :) Jul 19 03:28:47 linux 5 years ;) Jul 19 03:29:03 xnt14: on the desktop only since 2004. it took a while... i used for a bit in 1999 but then Windows 2000 came and that was good enough for a while. Jul 19 03:29:13 * xnt14 is a 14 year old linux user xDD Jul 19 03:29:17 hmm Jul 19 03:29:25 well...ok :P Jul 19 03:29:28 I think I've been using Linux about 11 years Jul 19 03:29:39 chx: that's not Maemo, that's Mer Jul 19 03:29:56 chx: and Nokia won't support it themselves Jul 19 03:30:14 luke-jr, nokia supports mer... Jul 19 03:30:14 ? Jul 19 03:30:18 which would be fine, except that the N810 has closed hardware Jul 19 03:30:44 that the community alone cannot use Jul 19 03:30:45 what on earth are you talking of Jul 19 03:30:51 the GPS mainly ☺ Jul 19 03:30:54 battery charger too I guess Jul 19 03:34:28 hmm Jul 19 03:34:32 sound Jul 19 03:34:43 yup Jul 19 03:34:47 your right about that Jul 19 03:34:53 chx, btw im 14 :P Jul 19 03:34:54 EdLin: sound works fine :þ Jul 19 03:35:02 xnt14: hah Jul 19 03:35:04 : Jul 19 03:35:06 :P Jul 19 03:35:09 Luke-Jr: sound works in non-maemo? Jul 19 03:35:13 * xnt14 hates his keyboard Jul 19 03:35:18 EdLin: if you use a recent kernel Jul 19 03:35:23 like 2.6.30-rc8 Jul 19 03:35:42 Luke-Jr: which alternate non-Maemo stuff supports sound on the n810? Jul 19 03:35:55 EdLin: I have used it in Gentoo Jul 19 03:35:59 xnt14: that's fine, i have a friend who is not yet 14 and he was a good enough programmer to give a google tech talk when he was 12.... (oh and he is an award winning composer too) Jul 19 03:36:03 actually, one thing I couldn't get: microphone/input Jul 19 03:36:12 but tbh, the N810's mic sucks anyway Jul 19 03:36:38 chx, awesome Jul 19 03:36:39 nice Jul 19 03:36:45 chx: Google has pathetic programmers, that's nothing special Jul 19 03:36:53 they can't write decent code for beans Jul 19 03:37:28 Luke-jr, just shut up, I'm sick of you yelling about random crap Jul 19 03:37:32 xnt14: no u Jul 19 03:37:36 argh!!! Jul 19 03:37:44 xnt14: when was the last time you saw a decent Google product? Jul 19 03:37:54 hint: the only one I've ever *heard of* was purchased from another company Jul 19 03:38:06 Keyhole, no idea what they renamed it anymore Jul 19 03:38:18 you can talk when you have written a better webmail than gmail Jul 19 03:38:23 Google wave has potential Jul 19 03:38:25 gmail ftw Jul 19 03:38:35 xnt14: ever looked at gmail code? Jul 19 03:38:43 have you? Jul 19 03:38:45 chx: not difficult, really, just time consuming Jul 19 03:38:48 xnt14: yes Jul 19 03:38:51 hmm Jul 19 03:38:52 or rather, analyzed it Jul 19 03:39:01 xnt14: GMail uses ActiveX Jul 19 03:39:05 if it can Jul 19 03:39:12 and...? Jul 19 03:39:17 who cares Jul 19 03:39:20 they do their best to deliver an experience Jul 19 03:39:21 because Google doesn't know how to write standards-compliant code that works in all browsers Jul 19 03:39:24 I don't use ie Jul 19 03:39:39 now Jul 19 03:39:54 xnt14: the main problem is their inability to write portable webapps Jul 19 03:39:56 you just told everyone know who knows that everyone already suspected: you know jack shit Jul 19 03:40:05 GMail targets Firefox and IE Jul 19 03:40:16 what browser does GMail work in that it isn't specifically targetting? Jul 19 03:40:18 if you think "standards compilant code" works in all browsers then you never ever tried to write any webapp. Jul 19 03:40:27 Opera to begin with. Jul 19 03:40:30 hmm Jul 19 03:40:33 chx: my browser is standards compliant Jul 19 03:40:43 yes but IE is not! Jul 19 03:40:55 IE is utter crap, it ms' fault Jul 19 03:41:08 * xnt14 burns IE for the 988888th time Jul 19 03:41:12 chx: the real problem is that their code is all written for specific browsers, not to adhere to standards Jul 19 03:41:25 of course. Jul 19 03:41:32 that's pretty understandable. Jul 19 03:41:35 yes Jul 19 03:41:51 a proper developer would write it according to the standards, and go back and add IE support hacks as a conditional Jul 19 03:41:56 are you sure you want to explain to *me* the what and the how of web application? Jul 19 03:42:44 hmm Jul 19 03:43:24 and anyone can look at Chrome's code Jul 19 03:43:26 ugh Jul 19 03:43:51 obviously the right way to do Chrome would be to use a portable language like Qt4 Jul 19 03:44:00 hmm Jul 19 03:44:04 not write a Windows app and go back to port it later Jul 19 03:44:24 and then port it in the worst way possible Jul 19 03:44:44 well windows *is* the most used platform Jul 19 03:44:51 ok then Jul 19 03:45:13 xnt14: Qt4 apps run on Windows, Linux, and Mac without many if any code changes Jul 19 03:45:23 native appearance on every platform Jul 19 03:45:37 chromium is open source, go and rewrite chrome in qt4 then Jul 19 03:45:47 xnt14: no need, there are already better browsers Jul 19 03:46:03 just shutup, your giving me a headache Jul 19 03:46:08 lol XD Jul 19 03:46:11 let's play Yandere then Jul 19 03:46:17 nah Jul 19 03:46:26 I want to go back to hacking flightgear Jul 19 05:24:11 hm Jul 19 05:24:16 win7 speed is like xp Jul 19 05:24:18 it is snappy Jul 19 05:24:24 wonder how they managed to get vista to go fast Jul 19 05:55:16 Seriously! someone ported *freeciv* to Maemo? Jul 19 05:55:18 <3 Jul 19 05:58:33 Macer: they probably made Vista go-slow on purpose, because MS sells operating systems by selling hardware. When that backfired, they removed the speed brakes. Jul 19 06:01:02 btw how can i press a key like f4 or f12 on the n810? Jul 19 06:01:16 not too easy to google on that. Jul 19 06:06:58 even tear wanted some of those Jul 19 06:12:30 EdLin: sells operating systems by selling hardware? Jul 19 06:12:31 heh Jul 19 06:12:42 meaning they made it slower to make people think they needed faster hardware? Jul 19 06:12:59 some of the idiotic stuff these apps try to install Jul 19 06:13:08 l;ike nero7 tries to install the ask toolbar? Jul 19 06:13:15 daemontools tries to install a daemon search bar? Jul 19 06:13:16 wtf? Jul 19 06:13:31 windowshell Jul 19 06:13:39 yah Jul 19 06:13:41 installed win7 Jul 19 06:13:47 opensolaris wasn't cutting it as a desktop Jul 19 06:13:51 works GREAT as a server Jul 19 06:13:56 but :) as a desktop it seriously sucks Jul 19 06:18:32 Moo Macer Jul 19 06:22:00 so no idea on function keys_ Jul 19 06:22:04 ? Jul 19 06:24:19 haha Jul 19 06:24:27 RST38h: yup Jul 19 06:24:31 mooooooooo Jul 19 06:24:32 xkbd ? Jul 19 06:24:57 id use debian if it didnt run slow on this k45 Jul 19 06:25:15 seems like xorg has really shitty intel vid drivers Jul 19 06:26:50 /usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols/nokia_vndr/rx-44 ? Jul 19 08:26:28 * Stskeeps ponders if anyone ever tried tiddlywiki in Tear Jul 19 08:51:04 woo, at 999 thanks at iTT Jul 19 08:51:15 with 500 posts Jul 19 08:51:34 Heya Sts Jul 19 08:51:42 Ah, you karma whore... Jul 19 08:52:23 yes, i am :P it gives me a hint that i'm doing something right.. which i kinda need or i get bored :P Jul 19 08:53:12 Heh, can't argue with that Jul 19 08:55:24 Sts: BTW, I have found yesterday that no amount of handcrafted assembly code makes VGBA display drivers any faster Jul 19 08:55:28 Kinda disappointing =( Jul 19 08:55:55 :( Jul 19 08:56:19 I am probably hitting a memory bandiwdth wall somewhere, dunno... Jul 19 08:57:03 * Stskeeps ponders if he has a micro to minisd adapter somewhere Jul 19 09:18:28 * Stskeeps yawns Jul 19 09:18:55 Morning, all Jul 19 09:20:37 morning jaffa Jul 19 09:26:48 hooah Maemo Jul 19 09:35:48 heya wazd Jul 19 10:11:12 * RST38h yawns. Anything interesting today? Jul 19 10:11:54 RST38h: Nokia Trademarks "C-Series" of Devices :) Jul 19 10:14:54 wazd: Yea, seen this Jul 19 10:15:33 wazd: Personally, I think they either going to move nnnn devices to Cnnnn or use C series for netbooks Jul 19 10:16:47 RST38h: the second variant is more expected I think Jul 19 10:17:06 wazd: Yes, but only if you believe that Nokia is going to start making netbooks Jul 19 10:17:16 RST38h: cause dumbphones don't need series to tell everybody that they're dumb :) Jul 19 10:17:44 wazd: Lots of nnnn phones are no longer dumb Jul 19 10:18:02 wazd: And lots of them are better made than underbaked Nseries Jul 19 10:18:18 RST38h: who knows, maybe Nokia's vision of netbooks differs from the World's :) Jul 19 10:18:35 RST38h: 6300 is cool. yep :) Jul 19 10:19:44 RST38h: but again, "dumbphones" are those bricks without any major OS like Symbian or something Jul 19 10:19:52 You mean S40 Jul 19 10:19:56 And lower Jul 19 10:19:59 RST38h: or s30 :) Jul 19 10:20:06 There is also S30? Hm Jul 19 10:20:22 RST38h: It's dumb-dumb phones :D Jul 19 10:31:31 "Quick rule: if it made it onto t-shirts, if you remember it even though high art makes you queasy, its real." Jul 19 10:38:04 * wazd wonders why the hell he should close Firefox to uninstall Illustrator Jul 19 10:38:46 Why should computer do all the work? :) Jul 19 10:39:24 RST38h: I just don't get the connection between them :) Jul 19 10:39:33 Ah who cares Jul 19 10:39:42 Probably installing some FF extension Jul 19 10:40:42 oh fuck Jul 19 10:40:55 I bet he would ask to close FF to INSTALL it Jul 19 10:41:03 goddamn :( Jul 19 10:41:10 Who "he"? The Satan, I hope? Jul 19 10:41:36 RST38h: ofcourse, who else can make such a bad jokes :) Jul 19 10:44:47 I knew it... Jul 19 10:48:46 AMD started pushing its Atom competitor to the masses... Jul 19 11:11:22 what a cool overview! Jul 19 11:11:23 http://fc08.deviantart.com/fs49/i/2009/199/8/4/Computer_hardware_poster_1_7_by_Sonic840.png Jul 19 11:31:40 Hmm...Orange RCA is a digital audio plug... Jul 19 11:34:13 RST38h, is that something thats wrong, or an odd port you have noticed on the back of your rig Jul 19 11:34:24 An odd port Jul 19 11:34:36 heh Jul 19 11:34:44 I have got the toslink port on the media pc, but obviously can't use it Jul 19 11:35:10 yeah you can only watch original star trek episodes with it Jul 19 11:35:48 use it for the Borg light, yea Jul 19 13:37:27 * slonopotamus needs someone with CAL storage format understanding Jul 19 13:42:58 Luke-Jr, ping Jul 19 14:39:03 http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=50933 Jul 19 14:39:11 why is it so secretive? Jul 19 14:39:35 i mean seriously.. is the gpu going to allow nations of concern thermonuclear warhead codes? Jul 19 14:39:54 "We have PowerVR source! We conquer world now!" Jul 19 14:41:55 Macer they could take over the world without powervr, but how can they render the slick ui without it Jul 19 14:42:18 what kind of self respecting evil genius maniac runs their destructive operations in 2d? Jul 19 14:47:44 hey there good people :) I have a problem with scrobbling using maemoscrobbler w/default media player on an n810 with Diablo firmware. could anyone of you help? Jul 19 14:47:51 Macer: ImageTech is afraid for its "intellectual property", that's all Jul 19 14:49:18 is it legal to scrobble in public? Jul 19 14:51:00 @lcuk: no, it's strictly prohibited, but I just have to take my chances :P Jul 19 14:54:04 MasterOfNothing, i heard that certain european countries allow scrobbling in your own home, and in selected coffee shops Jul 19 14:54:41 as for cgetting the software to work i havent got a damned clue Jul 19 14:56:31 really? no, haven't heard that, although last.fm has placed some restrictions on radio listening for non-subscribers in countries other than US, Canada and Germany Jul 19 14:56:47 the 3 euro is worth it Jul 19 14:57:25 the problem for me is that other apps like Canola and Vagalume - which have built-in scrobblers - scrobble just fine. it's just that the maemoscrobbler refuses to... Jul 19 14:57:52 I have looked at syslog and all, but I couldn't get any more info out it either Jul 19 14:58:40 From the control panel I can see either "Could not connect" or "Invalid username?" errors... Jul 19 15:00:52 Stskeeps, sure, it's not that much. although it did case quite an uproar in the last.fm community upon announcement Jul 19 15:01:12 i agree, but there's no free lunch Jul 19 15:01:30 i pay happily, saves me a load of trouble Jul 19 15:03:20 combine with thelastripper.com .. Jul 19 15:03:51 yeah, but I suspect that people were just mad that some countries got it for free... oh, well... I do very much like the service though, so for my part 3 $ isn't a big deal either Jul 19 15:04:53 RST38h: so cant the just release closed bins? Jul 19 15:05:03 the/they Jul 19 15:05:46 nvidia still does that dont they? Jul 19 15:06:02 Macer: gpl problems Jul 19 15:06:12 oh hawd Jul 19 15:06:18 not the fucking gpl Jul 19 15:06:26 hawd/gawd Jul 19 15:07:01 then let them release the open stuff Jul 19 15:07:26 gpl doesnt say you are required to put your own code out there Jul 19 15:07:52 you only have to make sure you provide the code protected by the gpl Jul 19 15:08:04 like unclassified cia documents Jul 19 15:08:44 sometimes i think the gpl was a mistake Jul 19 15:08:47 heh Jul 19 15:09:11 not very well thought out in practice but released as concept Jul 19 15:11:53 Macer, whats better then Jul 19 15:13:57 i dunno Jul 19 15:14:13 gpl + proprietary lic? Jul 19 15:14:34 we can call it the gp+pl Jul 19 15:14:46 that doesnt help people tho Jul 19 15:14:50 Wait, wait, I've got a name, the LGPL! Jul 19 15:14:56 because +s make things cooler Jul 19 15:15:04 using gpl+prop license only allows base code to be used Jul 19 15:15:06 oh yeah Jul 19 15:15:20 lgpl does that doesnt it? Jul 19 15:15:30 * Macer hides Jul 19 15:15:39 yeah, but you cannot just take a GPL app, add your own wrapper to it and call it lgpl Jul 19 15:16:08 Yes, and that's by design. Jul 19 15:16:10 i am thinking 3d accel proprietary gpu driver Jul 19 15:16:24 compareds to a wrapper Jul 19 15:16:57 The GPL is very clear. "If you want to take advantage of my code that I'm letting you use, you play by my rules." Jul 19 15:16:57 we do not know the ancestry of the powervr code though Jul 19 15:17:07 If you don't like the rules, don't use the code. Jul 19 15:18:43 i wonder what point that begins to breakdown tho, i bet like evolution, eventually the source will be transformed so much it loses its original identity Jul 19 15:19:14 I don't know. SCO taught us we can trace code back 30 or 40 years, if we have to. Jul 19 15:19:54 the only thing they taught us was that darl mcbride was a cocksmoking teabagger with less brains than a shrinp Jul 19 15:19:56 but i digress Jul 19 15:20:47 ^m :D Jul 19 15:34:40 http://interfacelove.blogspot.com/ <- wth is that Jul 19 15:39:56 hmm Jul 19 15:43:29 where are the connection settings stored? Jul 19 15:43:59 gconf: /system/osso/connectivity Jul 19 15:46:05 http://www.onlineasithappens.nokia.com/gallery <- weehehe, I have 4 hours to make something :D Jul 19 15:46:09 any ideas?) Jul 19 15:48:57 qwerty12_N810: was the message for me? Jul 19 15:49:21 radic: yes Jul 19 15:49:55 qwerty12_N810: in / isn't a dir named "system" Jul 19 15:50:16 I said gconf. Jul 19 15:50:43 wazd, that crap doesn't work in microb :) Jul 19 15:51:03 slonopotamus: it's a real crap so you don Jul 19 15:51:12 slonopotamus: don't miss anything :) Jul 19 15:51:43 wazd, hehe. you're using desktop kb Jul 19 15:52:00 common bug - to hit enter instead of ' :P Jul 19 15:52:04 qwerty12_N810: I want edit the config file(s) withe nano Jul 19 15:52:19 slonopotamus: yep, I need a better one Jul 19 15:52:44 slonopotamus: but if you want something done good - do it yourself :( Jul 19 15:56:34 hey all! Jul 19 15:57:13 Are see I'm trying to install android Jul 19 15:57:24 any good tutorials out there? Jul 19 15:57:44 At the moment, when I try to run it, I get: Setting up android-installer (1.0.0-2) ... Jul 19 15:57:44 cp: cannot stat './root/android-installer/sandroid.sh': No such file or directory Jul 19 16:00:25 qwerty12_N810: If I'll connect there are many python instances rising and make a lot of load Jul 19 16:01:35 argh... Jul 19 16:01:41 so eine scheisse... Jul 19 16:04:08 radic: What's the contents of /etc/network/if-up.d and /var/lib/alarmd/alarm_queue.xml ? (pastebin) Jul 19 16:09:29 /var/lib/alarmd/alarm_queue.xml doesn't exist Jul 19 16:14:26 now again, many python instances... Jul 19 16:14:45 and if I kill them the device works fine Jul 19 16:16:26 now i know what tablets are for... Jul 19 16:17:06 doorstopper? Jul 19 16:17:07 ? Jul 19 16:19:21 nooo Jul 19 16:19:54 it is for those moments when the laptop battery dies Jul 19 16:24:24 ah, laptop as doorstopper Jul 19 16:24:43 +: heavier Jul 19 16:25:01 -:doesn't wedge as well into the gap under the door Jul 19 16:25:54 mine is not much heavier Jul 19 16:26:21 I'm confused Jul 19 16:26:48 python wasn't installed but 2.5 binarys where there Jul 19 16:27:08 now I installed 2.4 and the problem was solved... Jul 19 16:27:59 hey all. I'm trying to install android, but I get: cp: cannot stat './root/android-installer/sandroid.sh': No such file or directory Jul 19 16:28:05 what gives? Jul 19 16:28:22 but /root/android-installer/sandroid.sh exists Jul 19 16:28:41 orangey: and ./root/android-installer/sandroid.sh ? Jul 19 16:28:48 ./ to what? Jul 19 16:29:05 from my current working directory? Jul 19 16:29:06 orangey: remove the leading point... Jul 19 16:29:16 radic: ah. Perhaps I've been confusing. Jul 19 16:29:57 radic: # dpkg -i android-installer.deb \ Setting up android-installer (1.0.0-2) ... \ cp: cannot stat './root/android-installer/sandroid.sh': No such file or directory Jul 19 16:30:14 I'm not sure what working directory it uses, otherwise I would make a link Jul 19 16:33:10 orangey: you are tring to copy ./root/android-installer/sandroid.sh Jul 19 16:33:22 ./root/android-installer/sandroid.sh Jul 19 16:33:35 remove the . Jul 19 16:33:37 radic: *I* am trying to do nothing. It is within the android-installer.deb's processes Jul 19 16:33:55 orangey: then correct the install-script Jul 19 16:34:11 radic: How can I do that? I was trying to figure out how to get into the .deb Jul 19 16:34:27 ar -x blah.deb Jul 19 16:34:43 then you have a data.tar Jul 19 16:34:44 ah. great. thank you Jul 19 16:35:17 I thought the main container was a .gz or bz2 and was trying to play with that.. anyhow, thanks. Jul 19 16:35:43 I ended up having success by moving it to / Jul 19 16:35:47 and then running dpkg from there Jul 19 16:37:17 lol? Jul 19 16:37:19 on another topic, any news about the successor to the n810? Last I heard, there was a slightly smaller thing coming out. has the date or anything been fixed on it? or specs or whatnot? Jul 19 16:39:31 wow. android on n810! pretty cool, though obviously of limited utility at this time : ) Jul 19 16:43:16 orangey: what are the differences between N800 and N810? Jul 19 16:46:34 radic: is there a keyboard on n800? Jul 19 16:47:12 orangey: the N900 likely comes out at Nokia World 09 Jul 19 16:47:20 orangey: September 2-3 in Stuttgart. Jul 19 16:47:45 chx: are the specs all confirmed yet? Jul 19 16:47:56 orangey: pretty much Jul 19 16:47:56 that thing people were talking about on t.m.o? Jul 19 16:48:03 chx: with the smaller screen? Jul 19 16:48:18 AFAIK Jul 19 16:48:24 alrigth. Jul 19 16:48:28 well, looking forward to it Jul 19 16:48:33 orangey: no Jul 19 16:48:36 though I'm not fabulously excited by the smaller screen Jul 19 16:48:40 radic: then that's one key difference. Jul 19 16:48:41 in like two years i will buy one Jul 19 16:48:48 chx: why? Jul 19 16:48:58 chx: THe main thing I'm feeling the pain of is no GSM Jul 19 16:48:58 once the bugs ironed out and the ridiculously high price is decreased Jul 19 16:49:02 orangey: but your camera could be easily fingerprinted ;) Jul 19 16:49:05 oh. what will the price be? Jul 19 16:49:06 orangey: it will be HSPA Jul 19 16:49:16 what's hspa? Jul 19 16:49:24 orangey: well, with HSPA it'll be phone-like pricing so my guess (and this is a guess) is 5-600 EUR. Jul 19 16:49:43 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Speed_Packet_Access Jul 19 16:49:44 chx: I hope not ; ) Jul 19 16:49:52 is there any word on if it will have non-voip voice calling? Jul 19 16:49:56 eg, actually be a phone? Jul 19 16:49:59 I just bought an N810 (I lost my first one) Jul 19 16:50:07 chx: n810 is pretty spectacular Jul 19 16:50:11 I am not holding my breath for the N900 Jul 19 16:50:13 but I'm starting to feel the lack of development Jul 19 16:50:17 * wiretapped still hasn't obtained a new n810 battery yet :( Jul 19 16:50:24 it's actually my main phone Jul 19 16:50:26 using SIP Jul 19 16:50:40 I would kill to have the SIP be full duplex, for example Jul 19 16:50:49 or to be able to use the video with anybody else Jul 19 16:51:01 maybe mer fixes that Jul 19 16:51:33 2 questions, full duplex? you mean you currently use your phone like a CB radio? *OVER* Jul 19 16:51:43 lcuk: almost Jul 19 16:51:46 and how do you speak into it and use it like a phone Jul 19 16:51:56 i guess BT headset. Jul 19 16:51:57 lcuk: the other person cuts out if we talk simultaneously Jul 19 16:52:04 bt headset would do what? Jul 19 16:52:52 that sounds a bit odd then, are people ok with you, or do they moan you keeping missing what the other said? *OVER* Jul 19 16:53:18 well, I generally talk to very understanding people Jul 19 16:53:24 but people who don't know me are very irritated Jul 19 16:53:38 it's not a HUGE deal Jul 19 16:53:43 but very irritating Jul 19 16:54:16 orangey_friend: ring-ring *facepalm*, its orangey again, wish he would get a real phone* hiya orangey! Jul 19 16:54:31 lcuk: almost : ) Jul 19 16:54:57 would a bt headset fix that problem? Jul 19 16:55:01 i think skype even works properly Jul 19 16:55:05 in phone context Jul 19 16:55:14 skype with video would be amazing Jul 19 16:55:42 mmmn different argument, but fully agree with you :) Jul 19 16:56:00 also, if I could make it so that I could select the ringing device, that would be super convenient for me Jul 19 16:56:08 since I refuse to be in the house with a bt headset on Jul 19 16:56:14 isnt skype with video available right now Jul 19 16:56:18 i guess it is Jul 19 16:56:30 not on n810 Jul 19 16:58:01 http://becherry.be/ how abt this on n810? Jul 19 16:59:32 is anybody seriously using android on n8x0? Jul 19 16:59:55 i would rather have tamiflu Jul 19 17:03:38 tamiflu? Jul 19 17:03:49 I guess I would rather have that than a lot of things. Jul 19 17:03:52 haha Jul 19 17:03:54 in fact, almost anything Jul 19 17:04:02 do you actually mean heiney flu? Jul 19 17:04:10 i'd rather have sex than tamiflu right now.. Jul 19 17:04:32 glass: overrated. use your hand... :P Jul 19 17:04:46 way to teach a man to fish Jul 19 17:04:57 a bit late Jul 19 17:05:05 it doesn't make you blind Jul 19 17:05:15 the secret is out Jul 19 17:07:22 hmmm Jul 19 17:07:30 so.. anybody seriously using android on n810? Jul 19 17:07:43 I think the pain I feel is the lack of speciality software Jul 19 17:07:44 my phone decided to tell me it was running low on battery Jul 19 17:07:56 garnetvm was supposed to fix that Jul 19 17:07:57 but it sucks Jul 19 17:08:00 by flashing its lights and vibrating and making audible warnings Jul 19 17:08:24 orangey, make your own then :) Jul 19 17:08:46 Android on N810 is a silly dead end. Jul 19 17:08:46 the people using it "seriously" are probably devs Jul 19 17:09:08 s/Android on N810/Android/ Jul 19 17:09:24 That too. Jul 19 17:09:59 C-series is going to end up being Nokia's Android line. Jul 19 17:10:56 bilboed-tp: why do you say so? Jul 19 17:11:01 that is a novel idea Jul 19 17:11:16 orangey, because it's a pile of closed-source crack ? Jul 19 17:11:35 s/closed-source/non-(L)GPL, reinvented from scratch/ Jul 19 17:11:35 bilboed-tp meant: orangey, because it's a pile of non-(L)GPL, reinvented from scratch crack ? Jul 19 17:11:39 Java, Google, cellular lockins. Jul 19 17:11:50 bilboed-tp: I guess we're saying "dead end" in the longer term Jul 19 17:11:54 Java isn't the problem here tbh Jul 19 17:12:03 because in the short term, os2008 is a dead end Jul 19 17:12:13 GeneralAntilles: What Android line? Jul 19 17:12:19 androids problems are purely political, and as such can't be fixed with a patch Jul 19 17:12:28 glass: this is true Jul 19 17:12:41 I obviously bought the n810 for the Free part Jul 19 17:13:13 if only it was just political... from a technical point of view it's retarded also (basically you can't re-use engineers used to a standard linux stack to work on making an Android phone) Jul 19 17:13:27 Jaffa, with the way Nokia's flailing around these days, I figure them shipping two direct competitors in their lineup isn't as silly as it sounds. ;) Jul 19 17:13:33 making life insanely hard for phone manufacturers => little chance of getting it adopted Jul 19 17:13:52 so, let's talk solutions for my n810 Jul 19 17:13:53 bilboed-tp: the reason why it's retarded is the key, it's political -> can't be fixed with a patch, you'd need to change thoughts or people inside google Jul 19 17:13:58 Mer seems immature Jul 19 17:14:05 android more so Jul 19 17:14:10 what's the solution? Jul 19 17:14:10 Mer is immature Jul 19 17:14:13 glass, no, you could fork and do your own.... but even then it's shit Jul 19 17:14:13 orangey: whats wrong with what it shipped with? Jul 19 17:14:36 But it still doesn't have a non-beta stack to build from. Jul 19 17:14:45 bilboed-tp: sure you could, if you had twenty million or something Jul 19 17:14:51 bilboed-tp: to sell the device too Jul 19 17:14:52 Give it 3-6 months and get back to me. Jul 19 17:14:58 glass: 1) SIP support seems not great for me (will this really be fixed by a BT headset?); 2) I can't get a decent IM client any more. seems like pidgin isn't updated any longer Jul 19 17:15:23 GeneralAntilles: i.e., Mer will be mature in 3-6 mo? Jul 19 17:15:39 what is mature? Jul 19 17:15:43 It'll likely actually have a final Fremantle release to build from by then. Jul 19 17:15:48 Day-to-day usable would be my guess. Jul 19 17:16:16 hrm? Jul 19 17:16:22 fremantle on n810? Jul 19 17:16:26 No Jul 19 17:16:27 ~mer Jul 19 17:16:29 rumour has it, mer is http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer, or on #mer Jul 19 17:16:29 wasnt there a cpu support issue? Jul 19 17:16:37 ah Jul 19 17:16:38 i c Jul 19 17:17:02 GeneralAntilles: what are you saying? Jul 19 17:17:14 GeneralAntilles: are you saying that with freemantle in the wild, mer will be better? Jul 19 17:17:23 s/freemantle/fremantle/g Jul 19 17:17:33 Mer is based largely on Fremantle technologies Jul 19 17:17:54 If those technologies are either unreleased or in beta/alpha stages, how "mature" do you think Mer will be? Jul 19 17:19:11 I didn't know that, actually Jul 19 17:19:21 Anyway, in the short term OS2008 is the only really usable OS available. Jul 19 17:19:29 well, my biggest thing is SIP client. Is that on Mer yet? Jul 19 17:19:39 Just use rtcomm? Jul 19 17:20:05 GeneralAntilles: I'm talking about prerequisites. I'm getting a bit frustrated with very few things in OS2008 Jul 19 17:20:17 but for me to experiment with Mer (or anything else), that's the ONE thing that has to work. Jul 19 17:20:56 AIM works fine in rtcomm in OS2008 for me. Jul 19 17:21:46 GeneralAntilles: ICQ certainly doesn't. Jul 19 17:22:21 do you guys know if it's possible to dual-boot android / mer / os2008? Jul 19 17:22:40 no Jul 19 17:22:46 kexec is broken sos Jul 19 17:22:48 -s Jul 19 17:22:49 * wiretapped wishes there was a way to do OTR with rtcomm Jul 19 17:23:09 wiretapped: a bit paranoid, are we? : ) Jul 19 17:23:32 it should be on by default Jul 19 17:23:39 you are correct Jul 19 17:23:51 i use open wifi networks that i know are sniffed Jul 19 17:23:52 maybe I'll run another pet peeve by you guys.. what about a good calendar client? Jul 19 17:24:12 I've used all of them except for KO/PI (which I think would work, but I can't get running) Jul 19 17:26:29 seqretary. Jul 19 17:27:58 news! nokia also came up with xseries now Jul 19 17:28:15 x1000 Jul 19 17:28:25 i want to say that my beefs with maemo are really, really minor. I've never been so happy with a PDA-like thing as the n810 Jul 19 17:28:27 it's amazing Jul 19 17:28:32 and has really made my life better in so many ways Jul 19 17:30:55 hm Jul 19 17:33:34 orangey: addictive stuff Jul 19 17:34:02 Stskeeps: which? Jul 19 17:34:23 tablets Jul 19 17:34:29 Stskeeps: it's not addictive bad. Jul 19 17:34:53 it's that I had been hobbling through in the palm/WM wasteland Jul 19 17:35:05 and then this thing came along that was fresh air. Jul 19 17:35:08 with linux, no less! Jul 19 17:35:35 the field is a bit different now, with the iphone, android, and palm pre Jul 19 17:35:47 but it's still grim for people who like to hack Jul 19 17:36:01 grim? Jul 19 17:36:10 RST38bis: Seqretary is perfect Jul 19 17:36:21 you know how many even if illegally hackable devices there were 5 years ago? Jul 19 17:36:23 you are welcome. Jul 19 17:36:39 glass: yeah, playing around on the iphone, android and palm pre is tough as compared to maemo Jul 19 17:36:40 glass: ah, lots Jul 19 17:36:53 RST38bis: for available for free for anyone.. Jul 19 17:37:01 practically free Jul 19 17:37:01 pretty much anything with buttons Jul 19 17:37:10 RST38bis: fresh stuff Jul 19 17:37:11 sorry, what's the point? Jul 19 17:37:20 is iphone or nit free? Jul 19 17:37:29 RST38bis: free compared to newton Jul 19 17:37:35 hmm Jul 19 17:37:57 orangey: that it's not GRIM! :D Jul 19 17:38:02 the point is that one can alwys find something to hack Jul 19 17:38:18 orangey: in 5 years we'll have lots and lots of cool cheap phones etc Jul 19 17:38:23 glass, different levels of "hack", perhaps. Jul 19 17:38:29 sure, you can always find something to hack. but are you saying hacking on WM is equivalent to doing it on the n810? Jul 19 17:38:45 glass: lhc will get us first Jul 19 17:38:53 or the crisis Jul 19 17:38:56 WebOS, Android, and iPhone OS all make it difficult for you to do what you want with your devices out of the box. Jul 19 17:39:00 orangey: as long as it gets the job done better than what you had previously Jul 19 17:39:10 I remember it took years to get my ipaq's wireless to a usable state on the mobile linux distro of the day Jul 19 17:39:29 General depends on what you want to do Jul 19 17:39:45 GeneralAntilles: Agreed. but that was true of palmOS and WM. The difference is now at least there's a modicum of choice Jul 19 17:39:51 GeneralAntilles: inbetween servers are easy to hack together Jul 19 17:39:52 I'd much rather have a device which doesn't require me to play silly cat and mouse games with the manufacturer or wait on updates to do what I want with. Jul 19 17:40:06 GeneralAntilles: and again, computers are virtual/free compared to what they used to be Jul 19 17:40:08 GeneralAntilles: exactly Jul 19 17:40:12 Of course, RST38bis, but they're all much more locked down than Maemo. Jul 19 17:40:41 glass, sure, but that doesn't make the pill any more pleasant to swallow. ;) Jul 19 17:40:53 RST38bis: do you know off-hand where the .ics file is kept for seqretary? Jul 19 17:40:53 I used a Newton very happily for many years Jul 19 17:41:22 but that's not that platform experience I want now, nor is the Wii-style Homebrew experience you get with WebOS, Android and iPhone OS. Jul 19 17:41:25 GeneralAntilles: i would've too if i could have ever afforded one, heard of one Jul 19 17:41:31 damn! can Seqretary sync with anything? Jul 19 17:41:39 glass, eBay, 2000, $200. Jul 19 17:41:43 GeneralAntilles: back then Jul 19 17:41:45 GeneralAntilles: not now :D Jul 19 17:41:51 Year 2000. Jul 19 17:42:00 i had a 3110 then Jul 19 17:42:05 I used a Newton 2100 2000-2004. Jul 19 17:42:05 or benefon io Jul 19 17:42:11 benefon io probably, my first phone ever Jul 19 17:42:20 i turned 18 then Jul 19 17:42:30 which is when i got my first phone Jul 19 17:42:37 if the car broke down or shit like that Jul 19 17:48:04 General: we do not yet know how maemo will change... ;( Jul 19 18:01:04 damn sorry ass pch Jul 19 18:01:09 is slow as hell :) Jul 19 18:02:30 alright, off guys Jul 19 18:02:32 see you later Jul 19 18:09:44 there are some great devices but high resolution screen with a keyboard and a proper OS (aka not WinMo) that's only the N810. Jul 19 18:10:40 Or Oqo, or ... Jul 19 18:18:20 slonopotamus: … Jul 19 18:18:30 Luke-Jr, ! Jul 19 18:19:23 Luke-Jr, your CAL thingie has struct for storing CAL entry header. how you figuured it out? Jul 19 18:19:26 slonopotamus: BME may contain CAL code. As a result, my CAL investigations have stopped. Jul 19 18:19:40 I can relay only what I learned before reading BME code Jul 19 18:20:16 slonopotamus: I figured it out from hexdumping the CAL data Jul 19 18:20:23 nothing more Jul 19 18:20:45 I suspect the unknown[8] may be checksum of some kind Jul 19 18:21:33 yeah, Stskeeps sent me some data with a better struct Jul 19 18:21:41 after the length, it has data and header crcs Jul 19 18:23:46 Luke-Jr, remember, stskeeps sent you libcal stuff he got from gdb? can you pastebin it somewhere? Jul 19 18:24:43 http://pastebin.ca/1500323 Jul 19 18:25:07 gracias Jul 19 18:26:27 can one setup maemo development environment on amd64 ? Jul 19 18:28:05 ideamonk, yep Jul 19 18:28:49 slonopotamus: im running ubuntu amd64, where can i read more on how to setup the dev env on it ? Jul 19 18:29:03 slonopotamus: i get this as of now - E: Currently Scratcbox can only run in 32 bit i386 architecture. Jul 19 18:29:15 ideamonk: setarch i386 ./installer.sh Jul 19 18:29:22 slonopotamus: while trying to setup the scratch box Jul 19 18:29:31 Jaffa: trying that out ... Jul 19 18:29:41 * Jaffa is working on a (relatively) lightweight cross-platform, predictable and easy-to-use dev env. Jul 19 18:29:44 But it's not ready yet Jul 19 18:30:43 Jaffa, qemu binfmt chroot is everything that normal dev should want. Jul 19 18:31:11 hmm seems like http://scratchbox.org/debian/dists/maemo4-sdk/main/ doesn't have amd64 packages but the installer tries to fetch them Jul 19 18:31:30 W: Failed to fetch http://scratchbox.org/debian/dists/maemo4-sdk/main/binary-amd64/Packages 404 Not Found Jul 19 18:32:06 thanks anyways Jul 19 18:32:41 Stskeeps, http://pastebin.ca/1500323 can you give it to me under gpl-3 license? :) Jul 19 18:33:16 slonopotamus: Except speed ;-) Jul 19 18:33:20 slonopotamus: erm.. hmm :P Jul 19 18:33:27 ideamonk: There's a -F option on the installer script (IIRC) to force the arch Jul 19 18:35:07 slonopotamus: AFAIK that's not Stskeeps copyrighted Jul 19 18:35:25 some may ponder what license gdb output is, heh Jul 19 18:35:47 err Jul 19 18:35:50 9 Jul 19 18:35:59 if that literally came from gdb, that means it's debugging symbols Jul 19 18:36:11 and arguably libcal code Jul 19 18:36:15 thus, Nokia owned Jul 19 18:36:42 And you just pastebinned it... Jul 19 18:37:04 * Luke-Jr glares at Stskeeps for distributing Nokia code :þ Jul 19 18:37:29 hmm Jul 19 18:37:35 can we argue it's too simple to be copyrighted? Jul 19 18:39:06 damnit Jul 19 18:39:56 how do i attach gdb to running proccess without suspending it? :D Jul 19 18:40:29 don't Jul 19 18:40:51 …… Jul 19 18:40:54 what would be the point? Jul 19 18:41:26 i want to read 'info types' output without getting rebooted by wd :D Jul 19 18:42:14 oh. --eval --batch should do the thing Jul 19 18:42:28 slonopotamus: #Mer Jul 19 18:45:18 slonopotamus: also, note gdb won't let you run any commands while a process is running Jul 19 19:01:16 * RST38h hates Hates HATES VAX Jul 19 19:05:26 woo, 1000 thanks :P Jul 19 19:08:19 you ancient, retarded, microcode controlled, memory faulting piece of shite... Jul 19 19:08:31 why are you doing VAX again? :P Jul 19 19:09:03 you and your exceptions Jul 19 19:09:20 Sts: money. Jul 19 19:09:29 ah, yes Jul 19 19:12:17 oh I seem to know what is wrong Jul 19 19:15:28 And the idiot box is showing Babylon5 marathon tonight, hehe Jul 19 19:16:18 what? Bab5 Jul 19 19:16:22 ooh Jul 19 19:35:25 lbt: Better, they are showing the-best-of episodes Jul 19 19:35:48 And even better, they apparently used wiki or something to figure out what best episodes are Jul 19 19:36:03 At least these do appear to be the best ones :) Jul 19 19:44:16 hm Jul 19 19:44:20 llink for opensolaris Jul 19 19:44:22 wonder how well it works Jul 19 21:26:13 * Luke-Jr wonders why Fn doesn't work in console mode, despite his getting it on dumpkeys properly Jul 19 21:35:09 dumpkeys? Jul 19 22:14:05 chx: yes, dumpkeys Jul 19 22:14:18 what's that? Jul 19 22:14:49 Luke-Jr: don't linux-omap have a fix for that in the kernel? Jul 19 22:15:12 qwerty12_N810: 2.6.30-rc8 didn't Jul 19 22:15:23 current Linux-OMAP doesn't have keyboard support for N810 at all Jul 19 22:15:29 chx: run it and see Jul 19 22:16:14 Luke-Jr: Oh. I found some patch for Fn in console. Took it and butchered it to run in 2.6.21. Fn in console worked, Fn in Maemo didn't... Jul 19 22:19:00 qwerty12_N810: I don't care much for hacks Jul 19 22:19:18 or was it an actual bugfix? Jul 19 22:19:50 I believe it was meant to be so Jul 19 23:10:52 qwerty12_N810: link? Jul 19 23:11:10 qwerty12_N810: do note this bug is NOT N8x0-specific, and occurs on some x86 platforms too Jul 19 23:13:37 Luke-Jr: took it from here: http://muru.com/linux/n8x0/n8x0-2008-08-14.tar.gz (may have been updated/removed/superseded - I dunno) Jul 19 23:14:35 qwerty12_N810: that is a hack and rather unrelated Jul 19 23:15:13 Unrelated? It gets you Fn in console. *shrug* Jul 20 00:52:57 qwerty12_N810: what's the problem if the N800 charges the akku for more then 6h? Jul 20 01:09:19 BEWM!!!! Jul 20 01:09:23 not really Jul 20 02:49:47 qwerty12_N810: no it doesn't, it makes Fn/Ctrl/Alt "sticky" Jul 20 02:51:08 oh no....... Jul 20 02:51:11 :P Jul 20 02:51:43 nevermind :P **** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Jul 20 02:59:57 2009