**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Jul 24 02:59:57 2009 Jul 24 03:49:14 m00? Jul 24 05:04:07 heya johnx Jul 24 05:05:44 yo Jul 24 05:47:29 Good time of day Jul 24 05:47:37 anybody have NAT working on n810? Jul 24 05:48:32 what do you mean by 'nat on n810'? Jul 24 05:49:03 you're making router of it? Jul 24 05:49:10 connection tracking support in kernel Jul 24 05:49:21 for ettercap fun by real :) Jul 24 05:50:38 'Ettercap is a suite for man in the middle attacks on LAN.' Jul 24 05:51:22 you attached ethernet card to your n810? Jul 24 05:51:45 i have wifi card on my n810 (!!11) Jul 24 05:51:48 :( Jul 24 05:51:49 :] Jul 24 05:52:19 so basically what you want is sniffing? Jul 24 05:52:44 i want perform own modifications of struct sk_buff in future Jul 24 05:53:16 :/ that doesn't tell me anything Jul 24 05:53:25 problems with NAT simply that i meet just now Jul 24 06:14:23 oh Jul 24 06:14:32 that's actually a good question Jul 24 06:14:40 can you share a Net connection with the N810? Jul 24 06:15:34 ... Jul 24 06:15:55 chx, you want to turn it into router too? Jul 24 06:16:12 yes. never thought of it before but it's a great idea! Jul 24 06:16:32 why not? it runs a standard Linux kernel, I bet it runs iptables too Jul 24 06:16:44 bheh Jul 24 06:16:49 standard.. Jul 24 06:17:02 a piece of shit! Jul 24 06:17:19 ? Jul 24 06:17:33 fucked umac blobs make it realy unusable Jul 24 06:19:28 it is pretty usable for me Jul 24 06:19:49 maybe not as a router, but I have got dlink for that Jul 24 06:43:57 ping Jaffa Jul 24 08:03:56 Morning, all Jul 24 08:14:16 Hey last I heard the newest handset was the N810WiMax... anything new on the horizon? Jul 24 08:14:25 Google came up trumps for me Jul 24 08:14:58 * LinuxCode are all waiting patiently for Nokia to get a move on Jul 24 08:15:11 a move on to what? Jul 24 08:15:42 a device like the N810 with rumoured faster chip, more memory and most importantly 3g/umts Jul 24 08:16:10 ew, nastly - I didn't think Nokia were going to bother making the Nxxx range phones. Jul 24 08:16:28 why is that nasty ? Jul 24 08:16:34 it would be the natural progression Jul 24 08:16:35 its modem only Jul 24 08:16:43 woglinde, ? Jul 24 08:16:46 Because I want a PDA, not a PDA phone... I have a nokia phone already Jul 24 08:16:46 you serious ? Jul 24 08:16:51 3g/utms Jul 24 08:16:58 I just want WiMax so I'm ready Jul 24 08:17:00 it's not a phone Jul 24 08:17:02 no natural voice function Jul 24 08:17:07 woglinde, if thats true, I aint buying one Jul 24 08:17:10 it's got 3G for modem/data connection Jul 24 08:17:16 linuxcode it is Jul 24 08:17:21 myrtti, yeah like they all did? Jul 24 08:17:23 got a press release ? Jul 24 08:17:29 morning Jul 24 08:17:33 morning mate Jul 24 08:17:45 hi stskeep Jul 24 08:17:54 I think stskeep has seen a prototype Jul 24 08:17:56 whats the point, to have a 3g modem, when I have to carry my phone around anyway Jul 24 08:18:28 woglinde: devel unit Jul 24 08:18:30 I quite like the idea of not encumbering the device with older 2G/3G technologies Jul 24 08:18:32 and the wireless signal for 3g will eat up more battery Jul 24 08:18:37 Lantizia: none of the previous ones have had modems in them Jul 24 08:18:41 WiFi/Bluetooth/4G is fine Jul 24 08:18:52 stskeep okay Jul 24 08:18:55 myrtti, thought they could connect to nokia phones over bluetooth tho to get 3g? Jul 24 08:19:00 Lantizia, whats 4g about wimax please ? Jul 24 08:19:02 lol Jul 24 08:19:24 LinuxCode, I don't make the phrasing Jul 24 08:19:24 nobody has wimax widely available Jul 24 08:19:29 Lantizia yes you can do it Jul 24 08:19:29 Lantizia: connect *TO* a phone (be it Nokia or not) with bluetooth, but they didn't have the modem inbuilt Jul 24 08:19:40 myrtti, whats the difference? Jul 24 08:20:05 woglinde: Why do you say it's modem only? Jul 24 08:20:13 are we talking about a N810 + faster chipset + SIM card reader? Jul 24 08:20:20 LinuxCode: all signs point to it having some voice capability Jul 24 08:20:29 Jaffa, I bloody hope so mate Jul 24 08:20:32 * Stskeeps waves from DebCnf Jul 24 08:20:35 I will be pretty upset if not Jul 24 08:20:36 + Jul 24 08:20:40 o Jul 24 08:20:43 and spend my money on another product Jul 24 08:20:46 bleepbleep Jul 24 08:21:08 Lantizia and powervr graphics Jul 24 08:21:14 I need more moisturiser Jul 24 08:21:15 hmm. i got the reboot loop. after running kismet for 18 hours Jul 24 08:21:19 Lantizia: With accelerometers, 32GB of onboard storage, 3D acceleration h/w, Clutter-based UI, ... Jul 24 08:21:28 OK can someone clarify here... Jul 24 08:21:28 ~rx-51 Jul 24 08:21:29 it's got 3G for modem/data connection Jul 24 08:21:29 i heard rx-51 is http://maemo.org/community/council/community_highlights_for_december_2008-part_i-january_2009-part_ii/ http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS9093153240.html Jul 24 08:21:31 i also moved /usr/share to /media/mmc1 and symlinked it, which used to work fine iirc Jul 24 08:21:34 what on earth does that mean Jul 24 08:21:39 that it IS a phone or not? Jul 24 08:21:50 its not a phone Jul 24 08:21:52 Lantizia: The only thing Nokia have *announced* is that it'll have HSPA data Jul 24 08:22:14 Lantizia: the modem for data is a known fact, phone (speech) abilities are matter of speculation Jul 24 08:22:16 hsdpa ? Jul 24 08:22:28 However, there are lots of references to GSM calls, text messages, etc. are in the SDK - so it's guesswork Jul 24 08:22:38 LinuxCode: High Speed Packet Access. Jul 24 08:22:46 LinuxCode, brit? Jul 24 08:22:50 LinuxCode: The stuff which gives you 7.2Mbps on the go Jul 24 08:22:56 Lantizia, yes why ? Jul 24 08:23:03 LinuxCode, you know of HSDPA :D Jul 24 08:24:10 see I don't mind the idea of a N810 WiMax with my E51 that has HSDPA... but you can't get the WiMax model in the UK Jul 24 08:24:17 so I'm waiting for the next WiMax offering Jul 24 08:24:34 Freedom4 are launching new WiMax areas by the end of the year in britain in about 20 different cities Jul 24 08:24:55 Lantizia: I doubt it'll have WiMAX Jul 24 08:25:03 how come? Jul 24 08:25:06 id still rather have a technology i can use everywhere Jul 24 08:25:46 Lantizia: Cos Nokia got burned with the N810WE Jul 24 08:25:53 how? Jul 24 08:26:47 I'm not an american so I don't know whats going on over there Jul 24 08:27:12 Everyone is sleeping here because it's night-time. Jul 24 08:31:52 derf: 12:33am here Jul 24 08:31:54 morning all Jul 24 08:31:57 what sleep time? Jul 24 08:33:00 Well, it's 4:33 AM here, and as you can see, I'm not asleep either. Jul 24 08:33:27 derf: I think we have figured out already that you are unamerican :) Jul 24 08:33:34 Oh yeah, good point. Jul 24 08:39:58 neat, 'Differentiation' mentioned in a HP talk Jul 24 08:40:16 Sts: Does it mean 'Android'? Jul 24 08:40:40 I hope next nokia tablet gets some retail presence ... finally Jul 24 08:40:48 rst, not sure.. watching a talk on HP and Debian Jul 24 08:41:38 'add value that customers will pay for' Jul 24 08:48:36 Sts: Linux? Steve Ballmer will kill HP CEO with a chair. Jul 24 08:48:56 pupnik: Won't be a tablet, will be a phone Jul 24 08:49:20 Whether Nokia decides to hype it the same way it did with N95 and 5800 is a good question though... Jul 24 08:49:46 stsn810 hp and debian is nothing new Jul 24 08:50:10 rst, servers Jul 24 08:50:30 rst????? Jul 24 08:50:50 woglinde: ? Jul 24 08:50:55 hp always had some organizational unit which cares about linux Jul 24 08:51:08 bruce perence was/is hp emplyoee Jul 24 08:51:39 That is a good indication of them being not serious Jul 24 08:51:55 *g* Jul 24 08:52:46 or is you problem general with HP? Jul 24 08:54:06 Not really Jul 24 08:54:53 I just think that as soon as they indicate even a slight desire to move away from Windows, even with one leg only, they are up to an unpleasant talk with MS Jul 24 08:54:55 HP makes lots of cash with linux servers, so they do care a lot that linux works well on them Jul 24 08:55:13 they also bet for linux on itanic Jul 24 08:55:39 * rkirti recalls HP putting quite some fight to optimize unix and get HP-ux , wonders if they have similar plans for linux Jul 24 08:56:10 and, their provide linux drivers for _all_ of their printers via hplip project Jul 24 08:56:39 which makes buying a linux-compatible printer a easy task :) Jul 24 08:57:32 * RST38h remembers HPUX all right, used to be spelled as HPukes Jul 24 08:57:51 rst hp even has openvms Jul 24 08:57:59 Anyways, it worked on their own workstation hardware, so it is kinda beyond the point Jul 24 08:58:13 suihkulokki in the last year hp made scanning and faxing working Jul 24 08:58:25 woglinde: HP has Compaq and Compaq has DEC and DEC has OpenVMS :) Jul 24 08:58:35 rst right Jul 24 09:00:12 woglinde: what is amusing, is that the installing/using hplip experience is sooo much smoother than their windows driver experience Jul 24 09:00:36 windows printer drivers are nightmares often Jul 24 09:00:36 suihkulokki depends Jul 24 09:00:48 especially color/ink printers Jul 24 09:00:59 suihkulokki problem was hp has to many different installers Jul 24 09:01:06 Sts: Not if they are done properly Jul 24 09:01:07 had Jul 24 09:01:19 laser printers worked mostly niced Jul 24 09:01:24 Sts: But of course, every manufacturer is trying to give you a "solution" now, not just a driver Jul 24 09:01:46 and the other problem was the usless stuff which the normal cds goes to install Jul 24 09:01:55 Sts: 50+MB of some buggy Windows apps written by godknows whom Jul 24 09:02:05 if you choosed only driver it only last 5 minutes then half hour Jul 24 09:03:23 really the RX-51 needs to deliver to consumers who don't give a damn about linux Jul 24 09:04:54 imo. it has to deliver the internet-connectivity usefulness. media playback, browsing, voice/video chat, email needs to be good. Jul 24 09:06:13 pupnik, and the apps they can get on top, must be free and good too Jul 24 09:06:29 lets face it, the apps in maemo leave a lot to be desired Jul 24 09:06:33 mhm Jul 24 09:06:34 in terms of choice Jul 24 09:06:56 like for e.g. replacing the sketch app with a really kickass sketch app Jul 24 09:07:05 think mypaint could do it? Jul 24 09:07:19 or having a shopping cart app that doesnt crash Jul 24 09:07:22 ;-p Jul 24 09:07:31 simple things, make people like their device more Jul 24 09:08:10 Jaffa said that Nokia got burned with the N810 Wimax... what did he mean by that? anyone know? Jul 24 09:08:15 the app have seen as the most maintained thing on maemo os OMwaeather Jul 24 09:08:34 Lantizia, means, probably not mnay people bought it as there isnt wimax everywhere Jul 24 09:08:44 -yet- Jul 24 09:09:12 Lantizia, if you really believe that wimax will be in the UK in 5 years time, available everywhere, you are wrong sir Jul 24 09:09:23 we will see 4g before we see wimax Jul 24 09:09:27 no I think it'll be here sooner Jul 24 09:09:27 perhaps wimax needs more coverage to sell more devices - chicken/egg problem Jul 24 09:09:30 WiMax is 4G Jul 24 09:09:30 bye till later Jul 24 09:09:35 pupnik, exactly Jul 24 09:09:39 Lantizia: Their main partner for it (in the US), Sprint didn't push it. It wasn't ready for consumers. Sprint dithered. Jul 24 09:09:58 Lantizia, there are many other technologies which allow backwards compatibility with 3g/2g Jul 24 09:10:15 and the EUropean mobile operators will favour those Jul 24 09:10:20 don't care about 2g/3g... stupid technologies that arn't IP based and need a silly SIM card Jul 24 09:10:25 WiMax is all I care about Jul 24 09:10:49 Lantizia, fine, I send the 10 billion bill your way then Jul 24 09:10:53 lol Jul 24 09:12:10 ok what other debian-based PDA's do people know about? (that arn't just hacks of other windows ones :P) Jul 24 09:14:46 Lantizia: The TouchBook and the Pandora Jul 24 09:15:25 k I think I found the touchbook (alwaysinnovating.com right?) any link for pandora... many things are called that Jul 24 09:15:34 openpandora.org Jul 24 09:15:38 o_O Jul 24 09:15:48 see I won't touch andriod because its so locked down Jul 24 09:15:50 <- #2421 Jul 24 09:15:50 WiMax is not 4g, it is wireless broadband (to compete with ADSL etc) Jul 24 09:16:09 i missed my chance for a dev unit too. Jul 24 09:16:20 Lantizia: TouchBook isn't shipping yet (AFAIK). Pandora's been a long tail of enthusiasts promising the undeliverable. Jul 24 09:16:33 s/tail/tale/ Jul 24 09:16:33 Jaffa meant: Lantizia: TouchBook isn't shipping yet (AFAIK). Pandora's been a long tale of enthusiasts promising the undeliverable. Jul 24 09:18:30 'promising the undeliverable'? Jul 24 09:18:32 Lantizia: wimax is also not "generic" - every wimax operator works on different frequencies, and thus wimax devices are locked for the specific operator Jul 24 09:18:38 the boards and cases are finalized. Jul 24 09:19:01 it has been a long wait though Jul 24 09:19:47 Texas instrument processors bother me :S Jul 24 09:20:30 why Lantizia ? Jul 24 09:20:47 why what? Jul 24 09:20:50 oh! Jul 24 09:20:56 sorry at work, getting very distracted hehe Jul 24 09:20:59 np Jul 24 09:21:13 my first pda was the jornada 928... and the OMAP processor on that sucked balls Jul 24 09:21:18 i've heard some qualified criticism of the omap2420 dsp (something about memory not protected) Jul 24 09:21:29 well xscale at that time was much higher clocked Jul 24 09:23:08 pupnik: clocks don't count... compare a 600MHz Xscale to a 600MHz OMAP today... Jul 24 09:23:16 pupnik: And they've made various promises which were unrealistic and so undeliverable. The current state was to be expected if they stuck at it; but their timescales were ridiculously (and stupidly) optimistic. Jul 24 09:26:11 fuck it I'm just gonna buy a N810 and use the HSDPA from the E51 Jul 24 09:28:01 Lantizia: At some point this year, the HSPA-touting device is going to launch Jul 24 09:28:07 (or Nokia are going to lose half the community) Jul 24 09:28:29 well I rather like my E51 as a phone that looks like a phone being a phone Jul 24 09:28:42 I was someone who wanted everything combined but now I like the idea of seperate Jul 24 09:29:29 carrying a tablet you love, carries the burden of not losing/dropping it. A cheap phone is less painful to lose/break. Jul 24 09:29:46 exactly and when I'm on a night out I don't need a full PDA Jul 24 09:29:52 same here Jul 24 09:29:53 Lantizia: Same here :-) A useful internet device is too big to fit in a pcoket Jul 24 09:29:54 although the E51 isn't exactly cheap either Jul 24 09:30:17 There are cell phone wristwatches and they are relatively cheap Jul 24 09:30:29 Made of metal too Jul 24 09:30:44 RST38h, with HSDPA so you can use it as a bluetooth modem? :D Jul 24 09:31:59 Dunno about 3G but it has got EGPRS Jul 24 09:32:02 Let us check Jul 24 09:32:03 You Fail :P Jul 24 09:32:35 Me? No. We still do not have 3G here so who cares. Jul 24 09:32:45 lol Jul 24 09:33:36 for me a PDA is good for 3 things... music (got my mp3/ogg samsung stick so thats fine)... organisation (my e51 can do that)... and full blown internet use... which only a PDA can fulfil Jul 24 09:33:52 http://www.diytrade.com/china/4/products/4937062/Wrist_Watch_Phone_W600_GSM_Mobile_Phone.html Jul 24 09:33:53 no net access quicker than 3mbps, stuff it :D Jul 24 09:33:54 No 3g Jul 24 09:35:21 sadasd Jul 24 09:39:14 http://highlightcam.com/ interesting service for home surveillance Jul 24 09:39:56 Don't most cameras do this automatically? Jul 24 09:40:07 some do Jul 24 09:40:22 maybe you're right re: most Jul 24 12:46:38 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvgZkm1xWPE :) Jul 24 12:47:01 * GeneralAntilles pokes lcuk with a stick. Jul 24 12:47:19 intercontinental stick! Jul 24 12:47:34 longstick is loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong Jul 24 12:47:55 why arent you working gan Jul 24 12:48:13 "fecal spillage in teen angst. again." Jul 24 12:48:18 Leaving in 3 minutes. Jul 24 12:48:56 what are you reading at the mo then Jul 24 12:49:03 or have you stopped reading since you went back there Jul 24 12:49:32 he lcuk Jul 24 12:49:42 hm holidays make irc silent Jul 24 12:49:52 irc is always silent Jul 24 12:49:58 hm Jul 24 12:50:05 in the older times ..... Jul 24 12:50:12 Finishing up a number of series that were incomplete last time I was reading regularly. Jul 24 12:50:25 John Scalzi's Last Colony right now. Jul 24 12:50:44 hm I am reading rcp book Jul 24 12:50:58 GeneralAntilles, scifi? Jul 24 12:51:17 Yeah, planning a return to real literature once the summer ends. Jul 24 12:51:26 But enjoying the space opera action shit for the time being. Jul 24 12:51:49 niven tells good stories :) Jul 24 12:51:52 Time's up. Jul 24 12:51:54 See yah. Jul 24 12:51:58 cya later gan Jul 24 12:51:59 Niven irritates me for some reason. Jul 24 12:54:07 bye gan Jul 24 12:54:54 hi fiferboy Jul 24 12:55:01 woglinde, hi Jul 24 12:55:22 Ah, bagel and muffin day Jul 24 12:55:43 we had pizza Jul 24 12:55:48 because of the rain Jul 24 12:55:51 Nice! Jul 24 12:55:55 nobody wants to go outside Jul 24 12:56:11 but lastet 1 1/2 hour to wen here Jul 24 12:56:14 went Jul 24 13:05:59 hehe, maemo.org on debconf tshirts Jul 24 13:08:24 Stskeeps: cool Jul 24 13:50:38 what the fcsk http://img238.imageshack.us/img238/4443/1213946563923hd5.jpg Jul 24 13:51:55 lcuk :) Jul 24 13:52:24 hiya jb, you know what it is then.. Jul 24 13:52:42 No idea what so ever Jul 24 13:52:56 That looks like some pedo teletubby Jul 24 13:53:10 Those crazy Japanese :) Jul 24 13:53:12 hm is lcuk eating bacon again? Jul 24 13:53:35 no bacon today Jul 24 13:53:37 perhaps thats it Jul 24 13:54:08 i actually know what it is, but as a work of art that picture defies belief Jul 24 13:54:18 infact, the movie its from isnt much better Jul 24 13:54:19 its unsharp Jul 24 13:54:38 so its amateruisch Jul 24 13:55:00 hm I need some water Jul 24 13:55:14 its a still from a movie - that explains the sharpnes Jul 24 13:55:16 s Jul 24 13:55:41 * aquatix actually saw parts of that movie a while ago Jul 24 13:55:54 weird stuff :) Jul 24 13:55:57 aquatix, thats the problem im having Jul 24 13:56:09 since i cannot unsee parts of that movie, it helps to inflict bits on others :D Jul 24 13:56:43 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPsd5BhDNu4 Jul 24 13:57:17 real maemo thing now: ive got a query in an sqlite database Jul 24 13:57:39 its on an indexed field Jul 24 13:58:05 hehe the craziest film from japanes I know of Jul 24 13:58:08 is this http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0430651/ Jul 24 13:58:14 but if i call it with " .... dateamend like '20090724%' it takes much longer than expected Jul 24 13:58:18 the field is indexed Jul 24 13:58:56 lcuk: Don't 'likes' and wildcard searches take longer in general? Jul 24 13:59:00 sqlite is not the fastest Jul 24 13:59:13 regexp slows down Jul 24 13:59:21 fiferboy, likes with wildcards in the left hand side, im used to Jul 24 13:59:46 but static left with + after should walk the index branch and leave me with N records matching the pattern Jul 24 13:59:47 quickly Jul 24 13:59:56 with * after Jul 24 14:00:17 lcuk, that's true... Jul 24 14:00:22 woglinde, its not regex tho, and sqlite seems quick with what ive got Jul 24 14:00:34 the db contains only about 20k records Jul 24 14:01:32 its just this one query Jul 24 14:01:46 hm Jul 24 14:01:51 sorry cant help Jul 24 14:02:36 lcuk: You can try the regexp operator and see if it is faster... Jul 24 14:03:07 hm, how would i do that then, im currently using: Jul 24 14:03:11 [[select datafilebody from liqpebble where dataclassname='sketch' and dateamend like '20140406%' order by id desc limit 1;]] Jul 24 14:04:21 lcuk: try replacing "like '20090724%'" with REGEXP '20090724*'" Jul 24 14:04:27 Leave the rest the same Jul 24 14:04:41 If it's a regexp, .* is the equivalent of % in SQL Jul 24 14:04:41 cool, will try Jul 24 14:05:07 lcuk: Let me know how it goes, I have never actually used it myself Jul 24 14:05:08 oh Jul 24 14:05:11 cool Jul 24 14:05:18 didnt know of REGEXP statement Jul 24 14:05:38 woglinde: I didn't either, I just found out about it :) Jul 24 14:05:44 need to remind that if I have to face sql again Jul 24 14:06:31 in javascript * not really works as expected .+ works better Jul 24 14:07:02 ahhh Jul 24 14:07:04 "The REGEXP operator is a special syntax for the regexp() user function. No regexp() user function is defined by default and so use of the REGEXP operator will normally result in an error message. If a user-defined function named "regexp" is defined at run-time, that function will be called in order to implement the REGEXP operator." Jul 24 14:07:28 aeh??? Jul 24 14:07:29 woglinde: Thanks, I'm no expert in regex Jul 24 14:07:43 fiferboy hm not a king Jul 24 14:08:06 but I work hard to get my needed stuff working Jul 24 14:08:31 lcuk: That doesn't sound promising... Jul 24 14:08:33 subgroups are compilcated but good think too Jul 24 14:09:25 If a user-defined function named "regexp" is defined at run-time, hm whats this means? Jul 24 14:09:51 you have to implement it yourself? Jul 24 14:09:59 Sounds like you have to provide a function to sqlite for it to use for regex searches Jul 24 14:10:16 yeah and my guess is that would avoid using the index completely Jul 24 14:10:33 hm okay so you can wrap around the function your app-lang is using Jul 24 14:10:37 so would have to do a full regexp comparison on every field in the data Jul 24 14:11:10 which considering the query should run at least 35 times per screen.. Jul 24 14:11:18 hm Jul 24 14:11:39 for that I think we must look ab the sqlite source Jul 24 14:11:45 up Jul 24 14:11:55 yeah or remove the like lol Jul 24 14:12:00 it was just something i wanted to try Jul 24 14:12:08 ive got an alternative solution but itsn ot as generic Jul 24 14:13:17 [[select datafilebody from liqpebble where datafilename ='day20131124.sketch' order by id desc limit 1;]] Jul 24 14:13:45 bah! it works perfectly lol. i wanted the calendar showing what the sketches i have worked on during that day in the calendar Jul 24 14:14:25 Thus ends the great sqlite regex experiment Jul 24 14:14:41 flat on its face lol Jul 24 14:14:56 at least i know the limits now Jul 24 14:16:39 fiferboy, when you list data in your bird database, do you have to create and initialize every item in the grid prior to showing it on screen Jul 24 14:16:56 or does it build it up asynchronously Jul 24 14:17:03 but still builds up entire list Jul 24 14:18:24 hm 2013 Jul 24 14:18:27 some years to go Jul 24 14:18:29 lcuk: I load the list in two passes (first filling in species information, then sighting information) Jul 24 14:18:53 woglinde, the calendar for liqbase doesnt run all those queries instantly, it just builds up the query string ready Jul 24 14:19:02 and im grabbing the sql from the very bottom item Jul 24 14:19:09 lcuk: If I fill the list asynchronously, it takes about 5 times longer to finish loading (although the interface is active during loading) Jul 24 14:19:12 yeah it kinetically scrolls all the way into the future Jul 24 14:19:34 So right now I freeze the interface with a "List Loading" message, load, and then free the interface Jul 24 14:19:53 fiferboy, for the lists im building, i do a single query which returns me the ID of the specific list item Jul 24 14:20:07 but i do nothing with that ID until the list item cell itself is shown on screen Jul 24 14:20:22 so my grid can contain thousands of items really really quickly Jul 24 14:20:34 and only at first render time does it do work Jul 24 14:20:34 lcuk: Do you look ahead while scrolling? Jul 24 14:21:14 no need so far Jul 24 14:21:29 I have tried doing an on-demand load, but I run into problems when I want to, for example, add a sighting since I use the same data from the main interface to populate the options in the add dialog Jul 24 14:21:38 andre__, for serious, Nokia: Making It Complicated. ;) Jul 24 14:21:58 If I haven't shown everything in the main list, not all the options will show up in the add dialog Jul 24 14:25:17 fiferboy, the grid item and views related to them all work on the key field (id in this case) and are simply refreshed after returning from an edit screen Jul 24 14:25:51 lcuk: To refresh the field you do a subsequent query with the ID that was returned in the first query? Jul 24 14:25:57 yeah Jul 24 14:26:59 I have my program setup so I only have to do the main query one time (until I switch lists) no matter how much adding, subtracting, searching I do Jul 24 14:27:21 thats impractical for me lol, the database contains so many records Jul 24 14:27:25 I'm not sure if that is the best way, but it runs well enough on the tablet for now Jul 24 14:27:34 and im expecting sync, so new records can be added at any time Jul 24 14:28:04 lcuk: My database has a lot of records, but each list is static inasmuchas no further species get added or removed, only sightings Jul 24 14:28:04 my database is over 100mb already! Jul 24 14:29:00 quit Jul 24 14:29:01 exit Jul 24 14:29:05 lcuk: Ah. I thought my 4.5 MB database was big :) Jul 24 14:29:17 yeah, you have a stable working set, im used to databases with millions of records Jul 24 14:29:25 and needing simple result sets Jul 24 14:29:43 fiferboy ;) Jul 24 14:29:52 Well, my species table is set, but the sightings table can expand as much as I want it Jul 24 14:29:58 I just haven't seen that many birds yet :) Jul 24 14:30:03 heh Jul 24 14:30:20 you could start inserting sightings from the many bird watching places on the net Jul 24 14:30:44 "saw a nice pair, wearing red bikinis" :D Jul 24 14:31:12 lcuk: I also have an issue that I have to load certain tables either on install or first run to populate the species table, locations table, etc Jul 24 14:31:36 my database contains a version table, and this is checked on opening Jul 24 14:31:47