**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Sep 25 02:59:58 2009 Sep 25 03:14:05 Google hits Android ROM modder with a cease-and-desist letter Sep 25 03:14:10 elouel Sep 25 03:15:09 ha Sep 25 03:15:20 well I guess that just about sums up my misgivings with android Sep 25 03:16:10 Hooray Mini 9 OS X Sep 25 03:17:41 it's funny, cause at work I end up using a netbook when I need linux over mac os x :) Sep 25 03:17:59 (though mac os x is workable in most cases) Sep 25 03:18:07 johnx, I'm just going to be using VMWare Sep 25 03:18:24 wait, on the mini 9? Sep 25 03:19:09 yeah Sep 25 03:19:14 Got it on the 8GB even Sep 25 03:19:47 sooo, mini 9 with os x with vmware on top of that? Sep 25 03:20:03 Nah, VMWare on my dual E5520 Mac Pro. ;) Sep 25 03:20:20 ah, apple gave you an early christmas present? Sep 25 03:20:42 Yeah Sep 25 03:20:44 They overnighted it Sep 25 03:20:51 I was so suprised when FedEx showed up Sep 25 03:20:55 Since I was expecting UPS Sep 25 03:21:34 sooo, bit faster than the G5? :D Sep 25 03:22:39 Just a touch Sep 25 03:22:46 Especially the single 1.8GHz G5 I was stuck on. Sep 25 03:22:53 Intel X25-m 80GB on the way. Sep 25 03:24:05 yeah, I'm still on an A64 1.8GHz. it was feeling slow recently until I learned some process had gone crazy in the background and had been running for weeks :) Sep 25 03:24:11 now it's quite nice again :D Sep 25 03:24:37 lol Sep 25 03:24:47 a 1.8GHz G5 is slow no matter how you cut it. Sep 25 03:25:13 mac os x is a hungry OS. not that it's not really awesome some of the time, but you can't say it's lightweight Sep 25 03:25:57 Sure, but it pisses me off way less than GNOME. Sep 25 03:26:32 the thing about being forced to use 2 OSes (mac at work, linux at home) is that both piss me off about 50% of the time Sep 25 03:26:43 Yeah :\ Sep 25 03:26:51 I'm way used to OS X's quirks, though. Sep 25 03:26:58 opposite for me Sep 25 03:28:29 really loving the keybindings on OS X now that I've tuned them, but the lack of focus follows mouse and smart window placement and that single menu bar drive me up the wall Sep 25 03:28:48 then I get on ubuntu and the mail/contacts/calendar situation makes me want to stab someone (or pay someone) Sep 25 04:04:00 hey rm_you :D Sep 25 04:06:49 how does one judge a mail/contacts/calendar suite... Sep 25 04:07:17 requirements, tastes vary so much Sep 25 04:07:25 oh, I judge lots of things :) Sep 25 04:07:43 uhm, yeah. it's very much a personal tastes thing I think. Sep 25 04:08:02 I think I like simple, separate tools better than one big application Sep 25 04:08:20 I really did like the o-hand pimlico stuff, but it kind of looks unmaintained Sep 25 04:09:04 you use them regularly? Sep 25 04:09:17 sync btwn work schedule and home/portable schedule? Sep 25 04:09:43 hello Sep 25 04:10:10 the pimlico stuff? not at all. maybe I should look at what features are actually missing for daily use Sep 25 04:10:14 hey zelrikriando Sep 25 04:10:29 though one thing going forward is that I do need caldav, so that cuts down my choices a lot Sep 25 04:15:24 Have you guys heard about what google did to android Sep 25 04:15:36 sorry to be offtopic :p Sep 25 04:16:21 yeah, I heard they made it into a mobile phone platform :) Sep 25 04:16:32 (no worries about the off-topicness when it's so quiet Sep 25 04:17:01 They asked the guy who did a popular rom to stop doing it Sep 25 04:17:19 so basically they gave a huge kick in the custom android roms Sep 25 04:17:38 was he redistributing proprietary code against license agreements to lots of people? Sep 25 04:18:20 So yeah, they claim that gmail,youtube and stuff are proprietary Sep 25 04:18:37 but he was distributing it on phones that had licenses... Sep 25 04:19:09 if they're proprietary, only google can distribute them Sep 25 04:19:23 yeah, I'm sure the license didn't allow redistribution Sep 25 04:19:24 even if the person who uses the rom has a license Sep 25 04:19:28 That kinda sucks though Sep 25 04:19:44 it s against the spirit of android Sep 25 04:19:45 see the devkit with devphone, setup requires you to let the installer pull some libraries off the phone Sep 25 04:19:46 wonder what the situation would be if someone tried that with maemo :) Sep 25 04:20:09 zelrikriando: Android was never free Sep 25 04:20:11 is there proprietary parts in maemo Sep 25 04:20:17 yup Sep 25 04:20:40 Maemo is probably a bit more free than Android, but still not completely Sep 25 04:20:43 so no custom roms for that one either hu Sep 25 04:20:45 a couple of the apps and strangely the internet connection daemon Sep 25 04:20:58 but maemo gets more free with each release Sep 25 04:20:59 zelrikriando: Not out of the box, no Sep 25 04:21:13 and there is a distro based on the free parts of maemo, called mer Sep 25 04:21:15 zelrikriando: Mer aims to be compatible with the Maemo packages Sep 25 04:21:23 and Gentoo can sortof make use of some too Sep 25 04:21:32 so of course, lots of people are mad at Google (me kinda too since I use custom roms) Sep 25 04:22:26 nokia has been pretty friendly about figuring out some way to redistribute the proprietary bits with mer so that people can keep using the non-free bits, but it takes cooperation, not just going off and redistributing without asking Sep 25 04:22:28 no real reason to be, and the sdk is open so they should get cracking on replacements, or figure out how to transition the apps Sep 25 04:23:06 microlith: it's pretty hard to keep a good experience without google apps Sep 25 04:23:09 I am 100% anti-proprietary, but I wouldn't violate copyright law. Sep 25 04:23:22 zelrikriando: you replace them, that's how. Sep 25 04:23:24 zelrikriando: yes, but that's not google's problem Sep 25 04:23:31 hmm Sep 25 04:23:36 or, like microlith probably meant, provide a legal way to migrate them Sep 25 04:23:38 I use all those apps Sep 25 04:23:45 luke-jr: yes Sep 25 04:23:57 I got that phone because I make heavy use of google apps Sep 25 04:24:13 using proprietary apps often requires giving up some freedoms Sep 25 04:24:25 zelrikriando: it's quite possible to make a desktop app that downloads apps from the phone and reuploads them after you've flashed Sep 25 04:24:54 though it sounds like a tool to extract the apps that could be distributed to people who already have the phone would be totally legally unassailable Sep 25 04:24:56 yeah there are workarounds Sep 25 04:24:58 then you could download those Google apps, flash, and upload them to the new ROM Sep 25 04:24:58 hopefully Sep 25 04:25:19 There is a tool to backup apps Sep 25 04:25:31 but I don't think there is a Google product I am willing to use Sep 25 04:25:36 zelrikriando: so use that Sep 25 04:25:43 but I think gmail and youtube might be too integrated to be considered apps Sep 25 04:25:51 -.- Sep 25 04:26:25 I think it would be a mess to remove Sep 25 04:26:32 especially the google search Sep 25 04:27:16 "mess to remove"? well their open source code builds into a ROM, right? the question is just adding the proprietary bits back into it (or creating free replacements) Sep 25 04:27:27 yeah Sep 25 04:27:35 ok so the mess would be to get them back Sep 25 04:28:04 johnx: from what I hear, the open source code doesn't build into a ROM by itself Sep 25 04:28:18 and oh yeah Sep 25 04:28:21 Google sync Sep 25 04:28:24 luke-jr, interesting. I've seen people build the open source code into a root fs image at least Sep 25 04:28:24 my contacts Sep 25 04:28:41 s/image// Sep 25 04:28:41 johnx meant: luke-jr, interesting. I've seen people build the open source code into a root fs at least Sep 25 04:28:42 If I remove that it s not even a phone anymore Sep 25 04:28:43 johnx: including kernel modules? Sep 25 04:28:44 :D Sep 25 04:29:06 luke-jr, errr...nope. but that code is open source Sep 25 04:29:13 or perhaps more relevant assuming Google is going legal route, userland drivers Sep 25 04:29:23 needs to be integrated manually with whatever kernel source you want to use Sep 25 04:29:29 someone did the work for the zaurus Sep 25 04:29:37 johnx: Android phones are 100% free software on the driver end? Sep 25 04:29:47 luke-jr, pretty sure, yeah Sep 25 04:29:50 oo Sep 25 04:30:01 luke-jr, let's try that differently Sep 25 04:30:17 now the question is: why are we over here with Nokia? :p Sep 25 04:30:32 google's modifications required to the linux kernel needed for android are open source Sep 25 04:30:35 if Android phones are already suitable in the driver department Sep 25 04:30:36 there is a qualcomm library that is not free Sep 25 04:30:42 johnx: I only care to run Gentoo+KDE Sep 25 04:30:43 the drivers that phone manufacturers use are not necessarily open source Sep 25 04:30:49 microlith: ah Sep 25 04:31:00 johnx: ... that's what I was just asking Sep 25 04:31:04 meh Sep 25 04:31:12 luke-jr, google doesn't write that code Sep 25 04:31:21 they're an upstream for people who make phones Sep 25 04:31:23 my next phone will be using maemo I think Sep 25 04:31:25 thanks to Google Sep 25 04:31:28 :D Sep 25 04:31:33 zelrikriando: that makes no sense Sep 25 04:31:55 you're upset because you can't use Google apps for Android on your modified phone Sep 25 04:31:57 zelrikriando, if someone blatantly pulled that trick with maemo they'd get a cease and desist pretty quick I think Sep 25 04:32:08 so you want to switch to Maemo which doesn't even remotely have the possibility? Sep 25 04:32:20 because there is code in maemo that belongs to non-nokia third parties Sep 25 04:33:27 "Ugh, it will take a lot of work to get Google Apps to run on my modified phone. Next time, I'll get a phone that won't run them under any circumstances!" Sep 25 04:33:31 luke-jr: without google apps I dont even have a contact list Sep 25 04:33:33 I don't get it. :p Sep 25 04:34:11 zelrikriando, FYI: the maemo4 contacts app is non-free and doesn't sync to anything Sep 25 04:34:20 The whole point of getting that phone was to modify it :) Sep 25 04:34:45 modify != break license agreements Sep 25 04:35:01 johnx: Maemo4 isn't for phones. Sep 25 04:35:22 zelrikriando: the only phone that really can be modified is OpenMoko so far Sep 25 04:35:32 unfortunately, OpenMoko kinda sucks :/ Sep 25 04:35:45 luke-jr, merely making conjectures about licensing ;) Sep 25 04:36:23 zelrikriando: you're welcome to join me on a hunt for a phone I am 100% free to modify software Sep 25 04:37:00 luke-jr: kinda? Sep 25 04:37:07 luke-jr: that should be the norm Sep 25 04:37:10 :) Sep 25 04:37:26 zelrikriando: should be, but I haven't found a good one Sep 25 04:37:32 luke-jr, if all you care about is the kernel, might want to wait and see on the n900. might meet your requirements Sep 25 04:37:35 microlith: no keyboard Sep 25 04:37:44 johnx: I care about drivers. Userland included. Sep 25 04:38:02 luke-jr: I meant in the "surely you are being kind" sense Sep 25 04:38:04 AFAIK, N900 has already been announced as non-free even in that regard. Sep 25 04:38:32 microlith: back a few years ago, I might have been happy with OpenMoko if it had a keyboard. Sep 25 04:38:40 luke-jr: you're gonna be searching for a while Sep 25 04:38:42 luke-jr, do you need 3D acceleration? Sep 25 04:38:45 Pavlov: I suspect so. Sep 25 04:38:50 johnx: need? no. Sep 25 04:39:06 where can I find tghe questionmark on the keyboard Sep 25 04:39:06 then, what else is closed source on the n900? (WRT to drivers) Sep 25 04:39:17 johnx: probably GPS and modem? Sep 25 04:39:26 battery charger? Sep 25 04:40:03 luke-jr, what phone are you using right now? Sep 25 04:40:18 johnx: some GE wired POTS phone, why? ;) Sep 25 04:40:31 it even works if I unplug it ;) Sep 25 04:40:52 luke-jr, did they give you the schematics for it? Sep 25 04:40:59 johnx: irrelevant. Sep 25 04:41:14 I'm not asking for schematics (yet) Sep 25 04:41:23 just specifications to use the hardware. Sep 25 04:41:26 but you can't make pushing the 5 dial a 7 Sep 25 04:41:30 that's not open Sep 25 04:41:39 johnx: my phone has no software. Sep 25 04:41:43 :p Sep 25 04:42:05 so you don't care about modifying the basic call-making properties? Sep 25 04:42:18 sure I do. eventually. Sep 25 04:42:22 what do you mean by that anyhow? Sep 25 04:42:39 I mean, then why do you care about the modem driver? Sep 25 04:42:45 first goal: modify any software. Sep 25 04:42:53 principles. Sep 25 04:42:54 provided it's implemented in a way that allows you to upgrade the kernel Sep 25 04:43:27 you're making good the enemy of perfect Sep 25 04:43:40 and ending up using a wired POTS phone Sep 25 04:43:47 no, perfect is not needing modification. :p Sep 25 04:44:16 it's an expression Sep 25 04:44:21 hehe :) Sep 25 04:44:21 :) Sep 25 04:44:31 and you're dodging what I'm trying to get at Sep 25 04:44:33 :P Sep 25 04:45:10 johnx: I'll start my crusade for open hardware schematics later, after I reach the software goal. Sep 25 04:45:16 then open chips after that. Sep 25 04:47:01 eh, principles without reason just seems like stubbornness Sep 25 04:47:58 reason is because I might need to modify it Sep 25 04:48:19 how many times did you need to modify your POTS phone? Sep 25 04:48:48 IIRC, once. and I haven't figured out how yet. Sep 25 04:49:00 so I'm stuck with a buggy POTS phone until I can find a good replacement Sep 25 04:51:33 * RST38h moos evilly Sep 25 04:52:12 hey RST38h Sep 25 05:03:44 luke-jr, just curious: do you own a car? Sep 25 05:04:25 johnx: yes, I have the source code for it too. Sep 25 05:05:26 really? or you can just change the fuel maps? (or are you saying it's carbureted?) Sep 25 05:06:18 johnx: no, not really. I'm just being a hypocrit and taking this one step at a time. Sep 25 05:06:21 my desktop machine was first. Sep 25 05:06:25 next is my handheld. Sep 25 05:06:42 well, I guess my servers were really first. Sep 25 05:06:47 then desktop, now handheld. Sep 25 05:06:54 I'll move on to vehicles much later. Sep 25 05:07:34 heh. there are open source ECU alternatives you know :) Sep 25 05:08:10 i guess I just find the "all or nothing approach" unintuitive, but whatever Sep 25 05:11:32 johnx: you're the one implying "all or nothing" Sep 25 05:11:44 I'm only shooting for "just the software on my handheld" right now Sep 25 05:12:35 sooo, "all the software must be open" isn't "all or nothing"? Sep 25 05:13:22 nope Sep 25 05:13:33 "the software" is a restriction on "all" Sep 25 05:13:36 dear god, not this again :P Sep 25 05:13:44 as is "on my handheld" Sep 25 05:13:59 alright, I repent Sep 25 05:14:15 think I'll just get an iphone Sep 25 05:14:23 also, I never said "or nothing" :p Sep 25 05:15:14 you're the one that has a POTS phone :P Sep 25 05:15:36 so? Sep 25 05:15:42 Anyone can point me to documentation on using Fremantle hw buttons? Sep 25 05:16:13 luke-jr, ok, let's agree to disagree Sep 25 05:16:16 johnx: NO! Sep 25 05:16:19 >:) Sep 25 05:23:27 RST38h, that's a pretty good question Sep 25 05:26:11 RST38h, is there a reason you think it won't be the same as the N810? Sep 25 05:27:19 johnx: Yes. No buttons. =) Sep 25 05:27:37 johnx: There is still the camera button though, so I would like to know how to use it Sep 25 05:28:29 RST38h, still have zoom buttons, right? Sep 25 05:29:01 and I kind of assume the camera button gets caught by some camera daemon sitting in the background Sep 25 05:29:26 They are used for volume cnontrol Sep 25 05:29:39 bummer Sep 25 05:29:40 Well I know how it happens in Symbian but not in Maemo Sep 25 05:29:54 sounds right, now that you mention it Sep 25 06:01:46 Ok, Ctrl+Enter it is then. Sep 25 06:03:03 oooor, make it configurable? Sep 25 06:03:24 johnx: http://www.daimi.au.dk/~cvm/mermantle.png Sep 25 06:03:51 what does the gear do? Sep 25 06:05:23 Not making it configurable. Sep 25 06:05:34 You want configurable - edit sendmail.cf! Sep 25 06:05:49 johnx: edit desktop widgets or add Sep 25 06:05:59 RST38h, you're making a ... gui for editing sendmail.cf? Sep 25 06:06:01 * RST38h cackles evilly Sep 25 06:06:10 johnx: thats sw rendering hildon desktop Sep 25 06:06:38 Stskeeps, ah! I didn't get that. thought it was more tricks with awesomeWM Sep 25 06:06:45 so how does the SW rendering run? Sep 25 06:07:32 more interesting is how it runs on n8x0 Sep 25 06:08:05 Mornin' world) Sep 25 06:08:58 http://pouet.net/prod.php?which=53880 'spilled' 4k demo Sep 25 06:08:59 * pupnik feels around on the floor for eyes Sep 25 06:09:02 I hope today I'll be free from this slavery at last :) Sep 25 06:09:46 yay Sep 25 06:10:29 morning Sep 25 06:10:42 saw another 4k recently that looked cool Sep 25 06:10:43 But miracles happen )) I still have a chance to be engaged in the court process)) Sep 25 06:10:49 with mountains and such Sep 25 06:10:54 precedural terrain Sep 25 06:11:04 wazd, well, good luck! Sep 25 06:11:48 johnx: ty :P Sep 25 06:12:05 oh yes, procedural, versus all the standard 4k, 64k demo that use bitmaps Sep 25 06:12:10 ;) Sep 25 06:13:22 pupnik, yeah, yeah. :P did you know the one I'm talking about or should I try to find it? Sep 25 06:13:51 Al these 4-64k demos are beyond my understanding. They are just way too cool Sep 25 06:15:18 not offhand johnx Sep 25 06:15:25 Damn, I'm a bit nervous =) Sep 25 06:15:41 this 128 byte demo ... is... Sep 25 06:15:46 http://pouet.net/prod.php?which=53871 Sep 25 06:15:50 128 bytes Sep 25 06:16:06 Pupnik: holy cow Sep 25 06:16:19 * Stskeeps offers wazd finnish vodka Sep 25 06:17:53 Stskeeps: I better not be drunk, cause I need to be ready for fuck up :) Sep 25 06:17:57 most of these don't run under wine Sep 25 06:18:11 you are presenting a project waz? Sep 25 06:18:51 pupnik: I'm getting myself a ticket to freedom) Sep 25 06:21:15 pupnik: the only reason why I can't leave the country will soon be solved. I hope. Sep 25 06:22:13 Or I'll kill these bastards with my bare hands! Arrrr!) Sep 25 06:25:44 and claim insanity? =) Sep 25 06:30:11 RST38h: yeah, moo btw :) Sep 25 06:30:18 heya Sep 25 06:31:38 I think I wont survive this line Sep 25 06:31:53 with the tablet, you will! Sep 25 06:32:03 moo all Sep 25 06:32:22 (may I suggest MSX or NES version of Green Beret? it has got the appropriate baddies) Sep 25 06:32:46 Sep 25 06:32:55 RST38h: Internet Tablet, give me power! :D Sep 25 06:33:03 or: "Look! I'm playing MSX! I must be crazy!" Sep 25 06:39:55 I should have taken netbook with me) Sep 25 06:47:35 wazd, i hope you did not mention your design skills to the army/courts they will never let you out, and russian weaponry would have the best ui ever Sep 25 06:48:18 lcuk2: the best ui is large red button) Sep 25 06:48:45 but it would be shaded and well balanced and people would feel cool pressing it :D Sep 25 06:49:25 OMG! Sep 25 06:49:39 A GUY WITH REAL AFRO ON HIS HEAD))) Sep 25 06:49:47 jeez) Sep 25 06:49:56 quite common lol Sep 25 06:50:24 lcuk2: especially in Russia) Sep 25 06:50:44 * lcuk2 nods Sep 25 06:53:52 http://instantrimshot.com Sep 25 06:54:33 HTH, HAND Sep 25 06:55:33 mornin Myrtti Sep 25 07:14:17 Disponibilité: Date de sortie prévue pour le 19 oct. 09 Sep 25 07:14:19 huhu Sep 25 07:14:56 preorder status? Sep 25 07:16:01 no, availability date Sep 25 07:16:06 yesterday it was oct 22 Sep 25 07:16:15 if everyday it gains 3 days, I'm happy Sep 25 07:20:36 until you end up missing the pickup window because it was released back in 2007 and you never claimed it :P Sep 25 07:22:23 heh Sep 25 07:22:41 good morning, channel Sep 25 07:23:31 as far as i've followed it's possible to install standard debian programs under maemo.. Sep 25 07:23:45 sounds like A Bad Idea Sep 25 07:24:07 so could i get emacs running on it? Sep 25 07:24:22 btnz: look into Easy Debian Sep 25 07:24:32 IIRC there is a maemo port of it for atleast Diablo already Sep 25 07:24:59 stskeeps, ty, i will Sep 25 07:25:13 jeez, I can't beleive what I just saw! Sep 25 07:25:18 wazd: a UFO? Sep 25 07:25:21 or an honest armyman? Sep 25 07:25:22 myrtti, okay that's nice Sep 25 07:25:37 Doctors here are TOTALLY messed up! Sep 25 07:26:10 Dentist tried to fake the results right in front of me! Sep 25 07:26:18 hehe Sep 25 07:26:43 myrtti, stskeeps: and what about my favourite scheme interpreter? will it, will it somehow or not at all? Sep 25 07:27:06 btnz: does it burn on ARM? if not, maybe :) Sep 25 07:27:26 btnz, which scheme interpreter? Sep 25 07:27:44 scheme, is it something edible? Sep 25 07:27:50 omnomnom? Sep 25 07:27:59 stskeeps: but basically i can run programs available for ARM? Sep 25 07:28:16 btnz: easy debian is a chroot environment that uses debian's armel port Sep 25 07:28:17 sounds crunchy on the outside and soft in the inside Sep 25 07:28:20 And when I asked yo check the results she shouted and threw me away Sep 25 07:28:24 johnx: plt-scheme (mzscheme) Sep 25 07:29:00 btnz, often need a recompile to link against the the maemo versions of libraries (if it's dynamically linked), so to have it working without a chroot the question is "can it be compiled for ARM?" Sep 25 07:29:43 morning all Sep 25 07:32:01 jeez, I still can't beleive they're that desperate! Sep 25 07:32:11 wazd: time to get out of the country? Sep 25 07:32:19 Holy shit!) Sep 25 07:32:41 Stskeeps: you bet) Sep 25 07:33:19 johnx, the source code is available, it's not the tiniest but also not a huge chunk of software, so i guess it should be possible? Sep 25 07:33:43 btnz, yeah, definitely doable one way or another Sep 25 07:34:06 a debian chroot is probably the easiest way to get it working and as long as it's available for debian armel it will definitely work Sep 25 07:34:48 mmmm emacs Sep 25 07:35:35 fluffy pink emacs Sep 25 07:36:13 johnx, thanks, looks like it gets pretty close to an IDE-in-your-pocket, now i think i've got some reading to do (deb armel??) Sep 25 07:37:01 btnz, it's the name of an architecture (like i386, or powerpc). armel means ARM EABI little endian Sep 25 07:38:53 morning Sep 25 07:39:14 morning tigert Sep 25 07:49:42 johnx, I don't even *want* to know how it comes you know the definition of ARMEL by heart Sep 25 07:50:11 s/how it comes/why it is/ Sep 25 07:50:11 crashanddie_ meant: johnx, I don't even *want* to know why it is you know the definition of ARMEL by heart Sep 25 07:50:35 crashanddie_: because the issue comes up so often :P Sep 25 07:51:59 crashanddie_, because I've been hacking around with armel-related stuff since it was supported in linux :P Sep 25 07:52:33 ok Sep 25 07:52:35 now Sep 25 07:52:42 I'm casually browsing /. Sep 25 07:52:46 http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/09/09/24/231229/Data-Locking-In-a-Web-Application?from=rss Sep 25 07:53:29 Why the hell is a "web application" categorised under "hardware", and what kind of half-witted idiot would say that a "because of [the web application's] disconnected nature" in the summary Sep 25 07:53:31 WTF? Sep 25 07:55:02 oh! i know! the kind of idiot that gets picked for ask slashdot! Sep 25 07:56:23 who is casually browsing slashdot anyway? :) Sep 25 07:56:55 crashanddie! Sep 25 07:57:07 * johnx is totally "on" today Sep 25 08:00:41 it's stupid question anyhow Sep 25 08:00:46 +a Sep 25 08:01:19 if they've managed that far with it, they should be able to figure out how to show to user that it's being edited or locked by someone else Sep 25 08:20:30 Hi. Is http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo5.0beta2/ the latest version available for the public? Sep 25 08:21:14 The SDK you mean? Yes Sep 25 08:21:45 RST38h: Thanks. Sep 25 08:21:57 http://gibsonandlily.com/images/galexandria.png Sep 25 08:22:12 lol Sep 25 08:29:28 ...visiting beauty supply stores in a hunt for chemicals needed to build bombs for al-Qaida, authorities charge... Sep 25 09:04:25 trying to learn pygtk while hangover kinda sucks :( Sep 25 09:05:16 try pyqt instead Sep 25 09:05:25 or pyside or whatever the new one is Sep 25 09:09:22 " Sep 25 09:09:36 * pupnik_ haet linux pastefail :( Sep 25 09:10:05 "The slide in Nokia World showing the combine selling of the 5800 and N97 on 10 millions" - http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=333426&postcount=11 Sep 25 09:10:18 wow what a userbase Sep 25 09:15:08 hmm. i think the 10m number is a month or+ old by now Sep 25 09:15:46 pupnik_: what was amusing that they sold a million+ 3250's in couple of months(back when it came). and that phone is seriously shitty Sep 25 09:16:26 * SpeedEvil wonders how many 3310s they sold. Sep 25 09:16:43 SpeedEvil: and how many of those are still in use :D Sep 25 09:16:43 shush all nokias are wonderful! Sep 25 09:17:03 heh Sep 25 09:17:17 glass: Fine phone. Sep 25 09:17:25 how many symbian users are there in total? Sep 25 09:17:46 dunno about current approx. numbers. a lot. Sep 25 09:18:02 It passes the test that when you sit on it, you get up because it's uncomfortable, not that you know you've just broken it. Sep 25 09:20:24 pupnik: 90% of Symbian users have no idea they use Symbian Sep 25 09:20:24 So who knows... Sep 25 09:29:50 hm Sep 25 09:45:50 most of them probably dont care Sep 25 09:45:53 they use a phone Sep 25 09:58:26 morning VDVsx Sep 25 09:58:44 must be busy with summit preparations I guess.......... Sep 25 10:00:01 rkirti, hi :) Sep 25 10:01:06 nice, 4 posts in a row from the same guy.. cant people use the edit function? :P Sep 25 10:01:55 people can, but how do you know it is a human poster? Sep 25 10:02:16 my bad ;) Sep 25 10:11:32 * wazd is going slightly mad Sep 25 10:11:42 mm? Sep 25 10:12:01 Iiiiit finaly happened... Sep 25 10:12:19 I'm dying in the infinite line Sep 25 10:12:23 hehe :P Sep 25 10:12:30 how do 3rd party projects get a product to bugs.maemo.org? Sep 25 10:12:45 kulve: just ping andre__ Sep 25 10:12:47 kulve: ask andre i think - it's fairly easy :) Sep 25 10:12:49 And I have to go here on monday Sep 25 10:13:15 ah, ok. So no automatic "get your package to extras and a bugzilla is opened for you" thing :) Sep 25 10:13:30 wazd: is it looking better or not? Sep 25 10:13:53 Stskeeps: they really screwed up Sep 25 10:14:07 good for you or bad? ;) Sep 25 10:14:57 Stskeeps: tried to fear me tt I'll be sued if my papers are fake. I said "go ahead" Sep 25 10:16:01 ah Sep 25 10:16:18 that's fairly common practice except it's the small print on forms Sep 25 10:16:19 :P Sep 25 10:16:49 wazd, what's up? Sep 25 10:37:37 wazd: So, who won? Sep 25 10:43:46 * lcuk2 baaaaaaaa Sep 25 10:44:29 moooo Sep 25 10:45:41 * RST38h quacks for a change Sep 25 10:46:16 Hmm. I think this is the nicest-looking loaf I've ever made Sep 25 10:46:18 eek. WW. Sep 25 10:46:29 wazd: I have got an idea. Sep 25 10:46:53 * SpeedEvil has managed to lose his breadmaker paddle. Sep 25 10:47:03 * SpeedEvil stabs planned obscelesance. Sep 25 10:47:06 wazd: (just don't have time to do it, so it will have to be implemented quickiedirtily) Sep 25 10:47:20 I have this nice programmable in all ways breadmaker only 4 years old, that I can't get parts for. Sep 25 10:47:27 wazd: Let us make a SANE media player for the tablets Sep 25 10:47:37 SpeedEvil: heh. I don't use a breadmaker. I *do* use a decent baking stone, though Sep 25 10:47:43 * RST38h buys bread in a nearby store =) Sep 25 10:48:18 but this is overnight bread: takes about 5 minutes work the night before and ten minutes the next day. No kneading, hardly any mess. Sep 25 10:48:35 ccooke: I can do it the other way - but a load with literally 1 minute prep ... Sep 25 10:48:36 It's about as complicated as a breadmaker, basically :-) Sep 25 10:48:44 SpeedEvil: *nod* Sep 25 10:49:01 SpeedEvil: I'll bet I can get a better crumb in this, though :-) Sep 25 10:49:35 dunno. I have one program that takes 8 hours, and is really nice. Sep 25 10:49:40 o_O RST38h you are goin mad! Sep 25 10:50:30 RST38h, sane is good - i gather you would use MAFW to maintain compatibility with everything Sep 25 10:50:30 SpeedEvil: I have one recipe that needs about twenty minutes work entire, but spreads it over three days... Sep 25 10:50:44 SpeedEvil: it is *lovely*. Of course, I can only start it on a Friday :-) Sep 25 10:51:10 all the backend is there and you just need a ui Sep 25 10:51:12 :) Sep 25 10:51:25 which can be built/expanded/added/hacked as required Sep 25 10:52:25 SpeedEvil: does your breadmaker get the crust right? I know some do, which is nice Sep 25 10:52:52 lcuk: Actually, I planned to sell this idea to someone, with wazd doing the UI =) Sep 25 10:53:04 haha Sep 25 10:53:05 lcuk: (see the mailing list thread) Sep 25 10:53:08 SpeedEvil: (I tend to use combinations of ice, room temperature or boiling water in the oven, depending on the necessary effect) Sep 25 10:53:11 well thats not a bad idea at all Sep 25 10:53:46 but its easier if you just try hacking something bad so white knights can jump in ;) :D Sep 25 10:54:08 lcuk: See, writing a media player is not difficult Sep 25 10:54:19 lcuk: What is difficult is making a usable UI Sep 25 10:54:30 ccooke: yes, which is nice. Sep 25 10:54:56 lcuk: Right now we have Nokia's own player (half baked at best), MediaBox (with confusing UI), Canola (with 20+ second startup time) Sep 25 10:55:11 lcuk: And a few more, written in Python and not working very well Sep 25 10:55:34 * lcuk2 nods, but i actually like the nokia media player Sep 25 10:55:45 * lcuk2 is all for simplicity Sep 25 10:55:46 lcuk: There is also an iTunes-like player that MAY work perfectly if it were packaged properly Sep 25 10:55:58 lcuk: Again, see the mailing list thread Sep 25 10:56:00 yeah, media players are like hello world Sep 25 10:56:05 yeah i know Sep 25 10:56:15 good media players are rare Sep 25 10:56:44 lcuk: So, the idea is to carefully go over the UI, build exactly what is needed, in C/C++ (no Python) Sep 25 10:57:10 lcuk: Then let someone else do the actual player with this =) Sep 25 10:57:17 actually, the best way would be going over the ui in whatever prototyping kit people feel comfortable with Sep 25 10:57:21 implementation is next stage Sep 25 10:57:35 lcuk: Just drawing will be fine Sep 25 10:57:44 im happy with liqbase pencil - wazd is happy in photoshop, you are happy in asm etc Sep 25 10:57:48 RST38h: a mock up might be useful as a test Sep 25 10:57:51 can somebody copypaste me the partition layout (cat /proc/partitions) for a pristine N810 and N800 ? I'm working on some partitioning related things, but my own unit is so far from factory settings I fear it might very well bomb for other folks so I'd like to doublecheck... Sep 25 10:57:54 lcuk: I have no problems putting the UI together in GTK+ Sep 25 10:57:59 i know Sep 25 10:58:07 like the discussion about fonts and colors Sep 25 10:58:08 same thing Sep 25 10:58:10 ccooke: I hope wazd has his say on the UI Sep 25 10:58:12 an ideas hotbed Sep 25 10:58:17 RST38h, i dont Sep 25 10:58:25 i hope the best overall ui has its way Sep 25 10:58:28 whoever comes up with it Sep 25 10:58:37 ccooke: Because he is actually a designer Sep 25 10:58:43 (it will most likely be wazd, but we might be surprised Sep 25 10:58:58 some unknown person might just come out of nowhere and knock us out Sep 25 10:59:10 lcuk: Probability of that is low. Sep 25 10:59:23 of course its low Sep 25 11:00:21 lcuk: Besides, we already have enough players designed by programmers :) Sep 25 11:01:24 * Myrtti cries happy tears Sep 25 11:01:27 i never said anything about programmers - there is some 7 year old out there drawing uis in crayon and dreaming of how to interact with them :) Sep 25 11:01:32 my bash scripting skillz ♥ Sep 25 11:01:37 Myrtti, <3 :D Sep 25 11:01:39 :D it works Myrtti Sep 25 11:01:41 Myrtti: Hello Kitty Fremantle theme? Sep 25 11:01:53 RST38h: I wish Sep 25 11:01:57 lcuk: Yes, the happy theory says so Sep 25 11:02:15 Myrtti: something to get wazd doing ;) Sep 25 11:02:19 lcuk2: subdirectories didn't make the shit hit the fan as I feared :-D Sep 25 11:02:20 RST38h, the day we stop dreaming and hoping is the day we die Sep 25 11:02:28 * Myrtti rejoices Sep 25 11:02:34 :) good! Sep 25 11:02:39 * Myrtti does a happy dance Sep 25 11:02:56 coffee/tea/oj and cookies for everyone Sep 25 11:03:04 bacon butties? Sep 25 11:03:11 sure! Sep 25 11:03:17 :D yayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy Sep 25 11:03:57 with a full stomach, i must vanish, have fun folks \o Sep 25 11:04:08 I can't digest them these days, but doesn't stop you having them :-D Sep 25 11:04:21 lcuk: Just go samurai road by assuming you are dead at the beginning =) Sep 25 11:06:39 Ladies with bash scripting skills.. yep, I think that's enough to bring a happy tear to my eye too. :) Sep 25 11:11:58 zerojay: if you'd only know... Sep 25 11:17:37 I'm sure you probably know far more than that anyways. Sep 25 11:17:59 I feel like I'm high on sugar Sep 25 11:18:31 Hehehe... good stuff. :) Sep 25 11:19:37 kulve, http://wiki.maemo.org/Bugs:Adding_Extra_products Sep 25 11:24:17 can somebody copypaste me the partition layout (cat /proc/partitions) for a pristine N810 and N800 ? I'm working on some partitioning related things, but my own unit is so far from factory settings I fear it might very well bomb for other folks so I'd like to doublecheck... Sep 25 11:24:55 Hmm crap, it seems we need to import the whole gstreamer tools chain from sdk into fremantle extras-devel too. Sep 25 11:26:07 Myrtti: Star Trek too? Sep 25 11:26:08 * RST38h hides Sep 25 11:26:39 RST38h: sorry, I'm flying so high I didn't get the reference Sep 25 11:27:45 X-Fade mail or ping Soumya Sep 25 11:28:37 tekojo: The problem is generally known, I just hadn't noticed the gstreamer-tools thing. Sep 25 11:29:08 X-Fade there's an internal discussion ongoing with a potentially cleaner solution Sep 25 11:29:18 tekojo: Yeah, I know ;) Sep 25 11:29:26 tekojo: And like the proposal. Sep 25 11:29:40 X-Fade and I guess the gstreamer-tools would work for that one too Sep 25 11:29:48 at least they could be pushed in Sep 25 11:29:56 it would make a few people happy Sep 25 11:30:06 morning #maemo Sep 25 11:30:13 morn javispedro Sep 25 11:31:26 * javispedro is ashamed of http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=333482#post333482 Sep 25 11:32:43 morning Sep 25 11:33:43 morn lardman Sep 25 11:35:09 javispedro: can't be worse than the Mer forum thread Sep 25 11:35:49 wow. true. Sep 25 11:36:36 AchipA: Still need that information? Sep 25 11:37:11 Myrtti: Where there are shell scripting, there must be Star Trek in the interests =) Sep 25 11:42:47 mihu: yes Sep 25 11:43:05 Nokia-N810-43-7:~# cat /proc/partitions Sep 25 11:43:05 major minor #blocks name Sep 25 11:43:05 31 0 128 mtdblock0 Sep 25 11:43:05 31 0 128 mtdblock0 Sep 25 11:43:06 31 1 384 mtdblock1 Sep 25 11:43:08 31 2 2048 mtdblock2 Sep 25 11:43:10 31 3 4096 mtdblock3 Sep 25 11:43:12 31 4 255488 mtdblock4 Sep 25 11:45:46 mihu: where's the internal mmc ? Or did you clip it here Sep 25 11:46:00 * javispedro wows at 64 post -developers digest Sep 25 11:47:45 AchipA: Yes, I clipped the following entries, sorry, I thought these were because of my MMC card. Sep 25 11:47:49 254 0 1966080 mmcblk0 Sep 25 11:47:49 254 1 1926744 mmcblk0p1 Sep 25 11:48:13 keep in mind some N810s were with a faulty partition table Sep 25 11:48:27 mihu: np, thx for the info Sep 25 11:48:53 Stskeeps: I've seen the notices, any suggested way of programmatically detecting them ? Sep 25 11:49:03 AchipA: "mount" says "/dev/mmcblk0p1 on /media/mmc2 type vfat" Sep 25 11:49:07 AchipA: can you give a quick summary of what you're trying to do? Sep 25 11:49:41 Stskeeps: just finishing a post on talk... a bit lenghty to post, but if you're interested, why not Sep 25 11:49:56 (and yes, it's probably dangerous as hell ;) ) Sep 25 11:50:28 juego de boxeo online http://www.kobox.org/kobox-fande-Nourine.html Sep 25 11:51:38 AchipA: you can't possibly have done crazier things than rest of community.. Sep 25 11:52:55 Stskeeps: :D Sep 25 11:53:06 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=333493 Sep 25 11:53:32 it's not THAT bad, actually Sep 25 11:53:40 jo Sep 25 11:53:46 AchipA: oh, hi atilla Sep 25 11:54:09 AchipA: you did see the whole /opt discussion? Sep 25 11:54:57 AchipA: please do. :) Sep 25 11:55:31 he javis Sep 25 11:55:32 this is a nice proposal if we can get n8x0s to mirror the fremantle layout Sep 25 11:55:44 hello Sep 25 11:56:02 yes, actually that sparked the whole idea, originally this was a loop device that had bundled all the qt stuff, but thought a more generic approach - like mirroring what fremantle does can be useful... Sep 25 11:56:42 AchipA: maemo-optify + appspace (dm-loop on internal SD) should be quite good. Sep 25 11:57:10 there's a problem with that Sep 25 11:57:13 unmounting Sep 25 11:57:25 I know, I have to hook in to ke-recv Sep 25 11:57:29 been there, done that Sep 25 11:57:34 :) Sep 25 11:57:35 meh.. same as with swap Sep 25 11:57:44 the osso-mmc-(u)mount thing Sep 25 11:57:48 i'd prefer an extra partition, but I guess a file is easier Sep 25 11:58:00 AchipA: i would avoid FAT+symlink completely Sep 25 11:58:06 that's why I want to experimnt with both, see which ones proves better Sep 25 11:58:27 Stskeeps: yeah, that's a bit a black sheep, but it IS the easiest one... Sep 25 12:00:07 AchipA: admittedly. ext2resize or fat resize comes to mind.. Sep 25 12:01:31 BTW talked to some Nokians, they preferred the loop file approach, too Sep 25 12:01:56 definately dm-loop then.. Sep 25 12:01:58 it's way faster Sep 25 12:02:26 AchipA: it would definately help to go with maemo-optify or /opt approach Sep 25 12:02:42 because if community SSU starts happening that might be a way too.. Sep 25 12:06:07 Stskeeps: agreed, I will certainly take that into account Sep 25 12:10:52 is there a way to view the 'application install memory' from the terminal? Sep 25 12:11:05 vesa what? Sep 25 12:11:18 whats install memory? Sep 25 12:11:30 ie. if one had accidentally filled the whole device memory with apps and now dpkg wont remove stuff cos theres no memory to write some logs... Sep 25 12:11:40 appmanager is using libdpkg as backend Sep 25 12:11:56 df -m Sep 25 12:12:09 try remove some bigger file your self Sep 25 12:12:13 with rm Sep 25 12:12:17 and run dpkg again Sep 25 12:13:09 dpkg: unable to open/create status database lockfile: No space left on device Sep 25 12:13:28 andre__: thanks Sep 25 12:13:44 I know that it is a FAQ, but I can't remember the answer any more ;) Any option to test Moblin live image from http://moblin.org/downloads in a virtual machine? Sep 25 12:13:50 vesa as I said Sep 25 12:14:06 use rm manually and then dpkg if you have enough space again Sep 25 12:14:17 uhh, sorry, wrong window, mixed moblin and maemo ;) Sep 25 12:14:23 dirk2 *g* Sep 25 12:14:42 or just move them to /media/mmc if you're unsire if it cna be safley deleted... Sep 25 12:15:05 wow, i cna type 300 wrods pre minuet ! Sep 25 12:15:26 Morning, all Sep 25 12:15:30 AchipA, as long as those words are asdf jkl; then so can i ;) Sep 25 12:15:39 mornin jaffa Sep 25 12:16:01 he luck Sep 25 12:16:08 hi jaffa Sep 25 12:16:16 woglinde: right, right. thanks. i'm not too hot on *nix stuff =P Sep 25 12:16:20 woglinde, i find "rm /var/cache/apt/archives/*.deb" to be easiest way to clean some space off - is that viable? Sep 25 12:16:24 He is ircing from his router!!! Sep 25 12:16:30 lcuk apt-get clean Sep 25 12:16:37 does it too Sep 25 12:16:39 lcuk2: there is an easier way for that, 'apt-get clean' Sep 25 12:16:43 cool, so that could make him some space.. Sep 25 12:16:43 rst hehe Sep 25 12:16:46 Flood him quick, let us see how much that wrt54g can take! Sep 25 12:16:49 :) Sep 25 12:16:59 rst *g* Sep 25 12:17:07 without digging through random folders Sep 25 12:17:30 lcuk dpkg -L packageIwanttoremove gives some clues too :) Sep 25 12:17:57 occasionally 'apt-get autoremove' gets handy, too :) Sep 25 12:18:00 thats not what this guy is having problems with tho Sep 25 12:18:07 just out of space Sep 25 12:18:08 AchipA aeh Sep 25 12:18:14 that not always works Sep 25 12:18:15 randomly removing files is fun.. Sep 25 12:18:27 lcuk rm init Sep 25 12:18:29 autoremove, not randomremove :) Sep 25 12:18:55 it just rids you of libs no package depends on Sep 25 12:19:29 (which is pretty safe if you installed all your stuff from packages, which you should :) ) Sep 25 12:20:30 hm wrt reminds me Sep 25 12:20:39 to package batman for the n's Sep 25 12:23:46 oh no, will the caped crusader escape the clutches of the evil woglinde in time. Sep 25 12:24:04 will robin get a date with RST38h, Sep 25 12:24:06 http://www.open-mesh.net/browser/trunk/batman Sep 25 12:24:13 find out on next weeks exciting expisode of batman Sep 25 12:25:28 lcuk: You mean, the Penguin couldn't off him and now you want ME to finish the job? Sep 25 12:25:53 of course Sep 25 12:25:58 woglinde, that doesnt tell me what batman is tho Sep 25 12:26:08 mesh routing protocol Sep 25 12:26:15 with lower overhead then olsr Sep 25 12:26:26 neat Sep 25 12:26:35 hi wazd Sep 25 12:26:45 yeah and the suckers only posted compiled binary Sep 25 12:26:51 for the n's Sep 25 12:27:08 doing not the right way and making a package of it Sep 25 12:27:34 * lcuk2 nods Sep 25 12:27:51 i bet i cant use the wifi and the mobile interface at the same time Sep 25 12:27:57 to allow a mesh and also exit ports Sep 25 12:28:57 hm I will test it next week I think Sep 25 12:29:14 recipe for oe I already made Sep 25 12:29:29 or better I updated it Sep 25 12:30:05 cool Sep 25 12:31:50 hm let me see how sb2 worked again Sep 25 12:31:58 its some month I last used it Sep 25 12:32:31 ah fine Sep 25 12:32:39 debian package is already there Sep 25 12:34:28 woglinde: thanks, worked \o/ Sep 25 12:38:20 woglinde: mesh over FM, wifi and bluetooth ;p Sep 25 12:38:34 aeh Sep 25 12:38:45 usbnet? Sep 25 12:38:49 that too :P Sep 25 12:38:53 (there's a FM receiver and FM transmitter, both with RDS data it seems) Sep 25 12:39:27 Hello all. Sep 25 12:39:39 well, transmitter puts "NOKIA" on my 13 years old cd/fm player's screen in a car Sep 25 12:39:42 Does anyone know the API for starting the browser? Sep 25 12:39:55 I need to launch a browser from my app when a user clicks a link. Sep 25 12:39:57 Any ideas? Sep 25 12:39:59 doffm read the dev mailinglist Sep 25 12:40:09 the topic was discussed there Sep 25 12:40:16 woglinde: Thanks Sep 25 12:41:01 woglinde: How recently do you think? Sep 25 12:41:13 last 2 weeks Sep 25 12:41:14 crap, fm transmitters are appearently illegal in sweden... :[ guess its hw disabled on the swedish version of the n900 Sep 25 12:41:30 frals intressting Sep 25 12:42:09 on the other hand the keyboard looks to be with the nordic layout (ie same for all nordic countries), wonder if its legal in fin/dk/nor Sep 25 12:42:55 they say it is Sep 25 12:43:36 not sure about dk but who cares.. Sep 25 12:43:36 :P Sep 25 12:44:12 * RST38h again considers mass smuggling US N900s into starved Europe Sep 25 12:44:26 Directional keys, working transmitter, etc =) Sep 25 12:44:41 it's legal in finland atleast Sep 25 12:44:43 what what? Sep 25 12:45:10 cool Myrtti, guess ill have to take the boat over to helsinki and grab one if mine is hw disabled Sep 25 12:45:14 javis: BTW, I managed to start it in 400x210 mode from command line Sep 25 12:45:30 javis: You are right, the start menu cannot be clicked =( Sep 25 12:46:09 yeah, i was planning to just increase the height of that button up to ridiculous values Sep 25 12:47:00 its not illegal here Sep 25 12:47:05 javis: No way to relayout the window? Sep 25 12:47:07 I don't expect this solution to be flawless until a long, long time Sep 25 12:47:21 javis: just make it fill the whole screen Sep 25 12:47:34 RST38h: and reposition all the widgets. Sep 25 12:47:40 yes Sep 25 12:48:09 there will be the total of 3 dialogs Sep 25 12:48:21 Main, Options, Startup Sep 25 12:48:29 (maybe the Advanced Opts dialog as well) Sep 25 12:48:30 there's a hundred of them. Sep 25 12:48:38 others are small and harmless Sep 25 12:48:55 and if they appear in the game, they can be moved around Sep 25 12:48:55 news options dialog, Sep 25 12:50:02 Hello everybody ! Sep 25 12:50:36 hi khertan Sep 25 12:50:40 hello Sep 25 12:50:44 ah finde directfb.org is back again Sep 25 12:51:13 woglinde: Thanks for the pointer. Found the e-mail and the D-Bus interface. Sep 25 12:51:21 hum ... seems to be times to port my applet to fremantle Sep 25 12:51:32 doffm .) Sep 25 12:51:40 hmm, need to see if nokia has disabled the fm transmitters on the swedish versions of the other nseries with one Sep 25 12:51:44 Khertan hm yo Sep 25 12:52:23 someone with an n900 can say me if there is some informations about of network cellular data transfered in /proc ? Sep 25 12:52:30 maybe in net interfaces Sep 25 12:53:07 yep Sep 25 12:53:16 but without a device i can't see :) Sep 25 12:53:36 Khertan what an applett you have? Sep 25 12:54:04 jo qewerty Sep 25 12:54:20 Hiya, woglinde Sep 25 12:55:06 no indications theyve hw blocked the previous models in sweden \o/ Sep 25 12:55:10 applet ? Sep 25 12:55:16 i have ? Sep 25 12:55:19 none yet ... Sep 25 12:55:37 i ll you port hometools for the moments Sep 25 12:55:40 and homeip Sep 25 12:55:46 as many ask it :) Sep 25 13:02:58 hi guys Sep 25 13:04:01 ok ... nice backup softwares Sep 25 13:04:09 i ve lost my sources Sep 25 13:04:11 pffff Sep 25 13:04:40 ????? Sep 25 13:04:45 I want to write some chinese wiki on maemo.org,could i do this? Sep 25 13:04:55 how can you list it with git? Sep 25 13:04:58 lost Sep 25 13:05:10 i didn't use git Sep 25 13:05:11 :) Sep 25 13:05:16 nor svn Sep 25 13:05:17 your fault Sep 25 13:05:29 too complex to use while in the train without any connection Sep 25 13:05:40 ???? Sep 25 13:05:43 git is the best for it Sep 25 13:05:51 git only works local Sep 25 13:06:08 until you push it to a public repos Sep 25 13:06:18 cd foo Sep 25 13:06:19 git init Sep 25 13:06:23 off you go Sep 25 13:06:36 maybe i should take a look at git Sep 25 13:06:43 i didn't know it Sep 25 13:06:48 available on diablo ? Sep 25 13:06:48 hg is easyer for personal stuff Sep 25 13:06:54 yeah thats why I am telling you Sep 25 13:07:01 keesj? Sep 25 13:07:17 hg init or git init dont matters Sep 25 13:07:32 one is python other perl and c Sep 25 13:08:05 * lcuk2 hits khertan on the head with a backup tape. ALWAYS. BACK. UP. EVERYTHING. Sep 25 13:08:30 lcuk2: the destruction was made by the backup softwares Sep 25 13:08:30 Khertan, yes, git is available in diablo Sep 25 13:08:35 so perfect Sep 25 13:08:36 :) Sep 25 13:08:36 but it does not had https support Sep 25 13:08:45 not a problem Sep 25 13:08:48 you can use it happily with source code repositories like github Sep 25 13:08:48 my fai too Sep 25 13:08:53 (i do all the time from device) Sep 25 13:09:00 oh great Sep 25 13:09:01 OMG I didn't know hg was python Sep 25 13:09:02 :) Sep 25 13:09:04 yeah :) Sep 25 13:09:07 git-core Sep 25 13:09:16 oh ! if hg was python i ll take a look at hg ! Sep 25 13:09:17 :) Sep 25 13:09:18 i think its in extras Sep 25 13:09:44 http://mercurial.selenic.com/wiki/ Sep 25 13:18:40 hum where does i can select hildon home plugin to be displayed in the fremantle sdk ? Sep 25 13:22:12 hum .... this sdk is clearly not for python developpers ! Sep 25 13:23:42 http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/09/25/dodgy_pharma_spam_economics/ Sep 25 13:24:09 (the translation of the term is apparently incorrect, but the statistics surprise) Sep 25 13:28:32 a leaked photo of the n920 ! ->>> http://mobile.softpedia.com/images/phones/650_0.jpg Sep 25 13:29:24 ok it s a nec n920 ... not a Nokia NSerie 920 Sep 25 13:29:58 *snerk* Sep 25 13:31:04 n920 is not top search query on google , what is happening guys :p Sep 25 13:31:36 twitter down, slashdot slashdoted Sep 25 13:31:40 héhé Sep 25 13:32:04 5 try to download the vmware image of the fremantle sdk failed ! Sep 25 13:32:05 that's the butterfly effect Sep 25 13:32:27 and download can't be resume ... due to stupid acceptation of the agrements Sep 25 13:33:31 someone have it can push a torrent ? Sep 25 13:34:19 http://current.com/1l6ju4c Nokia N920 Concept ? How Nokia should approach a QWERTY keyboard? nice pic, round bordered lcd Sep 25 13:35:26 I don't see why people want space in the middle so much Sep 25 13:35:48 look like a car glass mirror Sep 25 13:36:04 space in the middle of what ? Sep 25 13:36:15 ah space key :) Sep 25 13:36:19 sorry :) Sep 25 13:36:20 the keyboard, instead of offset to one side or another Sep 25 13:36:34 don t know Sep 25 13:36:46 possibility of hitting it with either hand Sep 25 13:36:51 maybe to be available for the two hands Sep 25 13:37:06 glass: but normally it's so small it's a strech for either hand Sep 25 13:37:25 which is something that i think is useless but i just see that i use it on my computer keyboard with the two hands Sep 25 13:37:26 :) Sep 25 13:37:36 normally as in where? mobiles? workstations? Sep 25 13:38:14 i used to have a keyboard that was broken so that you had to hit exactly in the middle of the space bar. sucked. Sep 25 13:38:14 anyway the keyb sucks in the png ... no ctrl keys ! Sep 25 13:38:21 on of the most important one ! Sep 25 13:38:45 dunno whats nokia about the concept either since it's just some guy Sep 25 13:39:28 i want an omap3 device shaped/buttoned like this http://www.flickr.com/photos/glasslife/3941163029/sizes/l/ fuck qwerty, i want to play! Sep 25 13:40:02 glass pandora? Sep 25 13:40:18 woglinde: are they shipping? and yeah, add a phone to it too Sep 25 13:40:46 phone is overrated Sep 25 13:40:48 glass: buttons! Sep 25 13:41:14 hm seems no shipping Sep 25 13:41:17 woglinde: basically i'd be happy with 5800 if it had a dpad + couple of buttons Sep 25 13:41:19 http://openpandora.org/ Sep 25 13:42:56 hm case is missing Sep 25 13:43:09 all other components seems to be ready Sep 25 13:43:31 glass: wanna help me design the push_nbutton? Sep 25 13:44:03 re javis Sep 25 13:44:14 hiya Sep 25 13:44:18 keesj: what is push_nbutton ? Sep 25 13:44:35 keesj: i need sketching ideas anyhow Sep 25 13:44:46 a push n900 project to add buttons to the n900 http://wiki.github.com/keesj/push_nbutton Sep 25 13:45:21 I am really bad artist so sketching would be great Sep 25 13:46:08 keesj: yeh it looks like something worthwhile to pursue Sep 25 13:46:39 glass mm sketching ideas? Sep 25 13:46:51 pupnik_ already gave some valuable feedback Sep 25 13:47:10 keesj, the push button name is even good! Sep 25 13:47:21 what games are folks going to do with it in the stores tho Sep 25 13:47:23 to make it useful Sep 25 13:48:12 lcuk2: i'm trying to hone my skills as modeller, but need ideas to draw Sep 25 13:48:26 cool Sep 25 13:49:27 what do you like modelling in? Sep 25 13:49:34 apart from pencil Sep 25 13:49:43 lcuk2: moray, then model in povray(using a megapov binary at the moment) Sep 25 13:50:30 lcuk2: and well. i don't really use a pencil that much Sep 25 13:50:46 have you considered how you could do it on the nokia devices - draw your nice models whilst sat on the bus etc Sep 25 13:51:41 lcuk2: a bit, but a keyboard and a mouse with buttons are essential to the workflow, to rotate around the stuff and so forth Sep 25 13:52:11 that is what I do most lcuk's note taking progam Sep 25 13:52:14 thats only because the software is designed as such - and dont get me wrong, desktop sw is very well suited Sep 25 13:52:39 lcuk2: i prefer to stick to the non-polygon primitives too.. scales to high resolution prettier Sep 25 13:53:03 "non-polygon primatives" hmm? Sep 25 13:53:11 everything is made up from polygons Sep 25 13:53:14 lcuk2: i mean, no triangle shit. Sep 25 13:53:29 so flowing curves and natural lines Sep 25 13:53:30 lcuk2: not in raytracer like povray.. a sphere is a sphere Sep 25 13:53:49 ~lart DCOM Sep 25 13:53:50 * infobot beats DCOM severely about the head and shoulders with a rubber chicken Sep 25 13:53:57 I tired blender and wing3d this week-end but I really suck at it Sep 25 13:54:00 wow. Sep 25 13:54:09 * javispedro was just looking to a dialog "Ok to install DCOM98?" Sep 25 13:54:14 LeoCAD is simple enough for me Sep 25 13:54:18 somehow i never got into blender Sep 25 13:54:23 javispedro: have fun ;) Sep 25 13:54:38 first ever app i wrote was in dcom Sep 25 13:54:39 javispedro: are we talking the same M$ wonderfulness? Sep 25 13:54:45 network monitor - installed on 2000 machines Sep 25 13:54:52 lardman: guess not, i'm playing with crossover Sep 25 13:54:55 (aka wine) Sep 25 13:54:56 keesj, leocad is tha bestest =) Sep 25 13:55:06 lcuk2: trying to get MATLAB to access an NT machine and open some sw using DCOM, can start the app, but can't access any methods Sep 25 13:55:12 then we found out dcom was shat and didnt scale like it was meant to and didnt release objects properly so i rewrite the transport layer into standard winsock ;) Sep 25 13:55:38 yeah, looks like I'll have to write a server and use tcpip to communicate Sep 25 13:55:55 lardman, is the binary compiled correctly as activex exe and has all the registration sorted and permissions set Sep 25 13:56:02 is commercial sw Sep 25 13:56:22 my problem was instentiate, do job, shutdown. and it never shutdown cleanly Sep 25 13:56:37 there were numerous pitfalls - lardman, you are right - simplify Sep 25 13:56:50 mine shuts down ok, bloody thing works on XP, just not on NT Sep 25 13:56:59 * lcuk2 nods Sep 25 13:57:03 i feel your pain Sep 25 13:57:03 grrrr Sep 25 13:57:04 :) Sep 25 13:57:09 the domain settings will be mucking with it Sep 25 13:57:35 nah, been through all that, otherwise it can't even start the remote server Sep 25 13:57:59 and that's also very fun on NT, dcomcnfg, etc Sep 25 13:58:13 * lcuk2 cowers Sep 25 13:58:20 and reboot after each change to check if it's worked, wonderful! Sep 25 13:59:23 i had not thought about such things for nearly 10 years - ive got cold sweats remembering Sep 25 13:59:36 :) Sep 25 13:59:47 sounds like fun Sep 25 14:00:22 the silly thing is, I'll use a local app as my server (and have to pass everything across myself) and it will all work fine, stupid NT Sep 25 14:00:52 lardman: question: why are you using NT? :) Sep 25 14:01:11 ir camera control pc, old sw, old drivers, etc Sep 25 14:01:45 (15:32:20) Khertan: 5 try to download the vmware image of the fremantle sdk failed ! Sep 25 14:01:45 (15:32:44) Khertan: and download can't be resume ... due to stupid acceptation of the agrements Sep 25 14:01:45 (15:33:48) Khertan: someone have it can push a torrent ? Sep 25 14:01:51 6 now Sep 25 14:02:38 lardman, in the old engineering block the it guys would shudder at the thought of servicing one of the win 3.11 machines Sep 25 14:02:46 * RST38h prays to the Tentacled One to make the guy who came up with x86 segments hiccup every time somebody curses them Sep 25 14:02:56 and to this day i bet that machine is in use Sep 25 14:03:05 RST38h: I have heard you. Sep 25 14:03:10 lcuk2: yeah, we have some dos machines I'm trying to phase out by rewriting the sw to run on something modern Sep 25 14:03:33 computers are tools Sep 25 14:03:39 lizardo, hello Sep 25 14:03:46 RST38h: I know some OS designers who like segments ;) Sep 25 14:03:53 jrocha: hi Sep 25 14:03:59 lizardo, it's me, your favorite complainer :D Sep 25 14:04:21 lizardo, I've noticed that I cannot set an input mode on an Entry Sep 25 14:04:34 is this a known issue? Sep 25 14:04:57 jrocha: can you provide an example snippet (pastebin) ? Sep 25 14:05:27 jrocha: I really don't know much of Hildon, so I need actual code to check against the binding sources :) Sep 25 14:05:52 lizardo, I don't have a standalone example but it's really easy Sep 25 14:06:13 check this: http://maemo.org/api_refs/5.0/beta/gtk/GtkEntry.html#hildon-gtk-entry-set-input-mode Sep 25 14:06:15 jrocha: but certainly it is not known, we don't have any known issues, just the many yet to be discovered ones :) Sep 25 14:06:18 * lardman reaches for MSDN to work out how to create his own out-of-process activex exe Sep 25 14:06:27 and curses M$ while he's at it Sep 25 14:07:30 lizardo, I would expect to do: entry = hildon.Entry ...... ; entry.set_input_mode(X) Sep 25 14:07:35 jrocha: and, the "nice" hildon_gtk_* functions... they are the nightmare of any binding author Sep 25 14:07:41 s/and/ah/ Sep 25 14:07:42 lizardo meant: jrocha: ah, the "nice" hildon_gtk_* functions... they are the nightmare of any binding author Sep 25 14:07:53 lizardo, I can only imagine :D Sep 25 14:07:57 WTF hehe Sep 25 14:08:28 jrocha: they are like patches to GTK IMHO, but without actually changing GTK :/ Sep 25 14:09:00 jrocha: and, strangely enough, this one is on **GTK** and not on hildon like the other hildon_gtk_* I worked with Sep 25 14:09:18 so we would have actually touch the pygtk sources to add support for it Sep 25 14:09:46 :) Sep 25 14:09:51 sounds like fun Sep 25 14:10:09 jrocha: care to open a bug about it ? Sep 25 14:10:12 * RST38h feels like TI is taunting him: http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/25/ti-joins-hp-creates-official-business-calculator-port-for-iphon/ Sep 25 14:10:18 http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/maemo-dev-env-downloads.php?f=Maemo_Ubuntu_Intrepid_Desktop_SDK_Virtual_Image_Splitted.zip.001<<<< does there is a direct download link ? Sep 25 14:10:19 lizardo, I'll do it Sep 25 14:10:21 jrocha: so we will provide support for it on the next pygtk revamp Sep 25 14:10:31 Screwing with my brain, ain't they? Sep 25 14:10:32 something that could be use to resume it in case of fail !? Sep 25 14:10:41 Sending subliminal messages! Sep 25 14:10:56 lizardo, could you tell me your components? Sep 25 14:11:24 jrocha: https://bugs.maemo.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=PyMaemo Sep 25 14:11:30 jrocha: we don't have any components Sep 25 14:11:43 ok Sep 25 14:12:07 jrocha: just drop it there in this product and put a nice summary that we can easily associate with Hildon+Gtk :) Sep 25 14:12:33 jrocha: we decided to not use components because they might be very "dynamic" in PyMaemo, as we host many packages Sep 25 14:13:11 ok Sep 25 14:15:41 lizardo, I think the input modes are really important Sep 25 14:16:12 since, for example, there are no spinbuttons on hildon, people can assign a NUMERIC mode to an entry in order to make it only select numbers Sep 25 14:16:14 jrocha: ok, so be sure to set that on the bug (priority field) Sep 25 14:16:25 it's high! Sep 25 14:16:26 :D Sep 25 14:16:31 https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5199 Sep 25 14:17:10 jrocha: we have plans to work on pygtk on the next weeks , so I'll add this feature to that too :) Sep 25 14:17:35 seems that gtksourceview2 make python segfault Sep 25 14:17:36 :) Sep 25 14:17:38 nice Sep 25 14:18:15 jrocha: tks Sep 25 14:18:25 but does this only happen on fremantle sdk ? Sep 25 14:18:36 someone have try pygtkeditor on a n900 ? Sep 25 14:28:03 haha Sep 25 14:28:10 the seamstress looks pretty funny Sep 25 14:29:26 wow house sucked Sep 25 14:29:27 heh Sep 25 14:30:17 it was like a bad hack of one flew over the cookoo's nest Sep 25 14:30:38 house is awesome! Sep 25 14:30:59 i didn't say the show sucked. i meant the episode with him in the nuthouse Sep 25 14:31:04 it was kind of a shitty episode Sep 25 14:33:26 i found it decent, was a pretty good season opener... on the other hand i havnt seen one flew over the cuckoo's nest ;o Sep 25 15:34:19 * lardman grumbles at porting Python code to C code Sep 25 15:38:29 lardman: that can be unpleasant :-/ Sep 25 15:40:56 I'm sure it won;t be too bad, html grabbing and parsing, just a pain to have to write it from a lower level Sep 25 15:41:56 libraries and functions Sep 25 15:42:01 high level api Sep 25 15:42:08 yeah, just have to find some Sep 25 15:42:16 Google! Sep 25 15:42:26 write a google parser in c Sep 25 15:42:32 and try to use it to find a html parser Sep 25 15:44:44 libcurl + libxml I gues Sep 25 15:44:45 s Sep 25 15:45:37 * ccooke sits in Euston station wondering what to do for the next two hours Sep 25 15:46:04 Chat on #maemo? =) Sep 25 15:46:16 qwerty12: well, it's a definite *option* :-) Sep 25 15:46:24 hehe Sep 25 15:46:34 2hrs? going off-peak? Sep 25 15:46:50 if I can find a comfortable chair, I may even do some coding :-) Sep 25 15:47:14 lardman: yeah. I usually book in advance, but it's been a busy week Sep 25 15:47:29 in which case s/chair/pub Sep 25 15:47:56 heh Sep 25 15:48:09 maybe in a bit Sep 25 15:48:41 :) Sep 25 15:48:42 same here Sep 25 15:48:57 lardman: Euston or somewhere else? :-) Sep 25 15:49:08 somewhere else - am in Bath Sep 25 15:49:22 not the bath either Sep 25 15:49:27 :) Sep 25 15:50:21 of course, the real question is: Will my laptop battery *last* two hours? Sep 25 15:50:51 I was very impressed with my wife's Samsung N110, battery lasts for ever Sep 25 15:51:19 wonder if I could install Linux on it without her noticing, and bring it to the summit.... Sep 25 15:51:22 my laptops are monstrosities :-) Sep 25 15:51:43 I've got an old one that reduces my gas bill Sep 25 15:52:05 need asbestos trousers to use it mind you Sep 25 15:52:07 I've spent enough time contracting that the idea of not having a good laptop I can provide for a future contract worries me Sep 25 15:52:19 (even though I'm happily in a perm job now) Sep 25 15:53:01 and I've had to do a lot of high-end stuff for work - mucking about with performance testing different hypervisors. Oh, and I'm huge - the only laptops I can use comfortably are 17" Sep 25 15:53:25 Add that together and you get monstrous desktop replacements with tons of power and hardly any battery life Sep 25 15:53:33 I only use a laptop to tweak presentations and check email Sep 25 15:53:42 ccooke: car battery + inverter Sep 25 15:54:07 SpeedEvil: I would liek to introduce you to the concept of "Portable" :-) Sep 25 15:54:13 SpeedEvil: I had a PC running in the back of a car doing that Sep 25 15:54:25 SpeedEvil: not good when switching the car on/off though Sep 25 15:54:41 * ccooke can happily carry a 17" beast on my back - the advantage of being huge is that what you can carry comfortably scales, too :-) Sep 25 15:59:06 hi dneary Sep 25 15:59:42 * lardman wonders why few people seem to try parsing Amazon with C Sep 25 16:02:45 lardman Sep 25 16:02:51 lots of people parse amazon using c Sep 25 16:02:55 probably the same reason people don't usually beat themselves with spiky sticks Sep 25 16:03:02 really? Sep 25 16:03:04 where? Sep 25 16:03:08 internet explorer, firefox, etc all have parsers wrote in c Sep 25 16:03:22 (or c++) Sep 25 16:03:30 ofc Sep 25 16:03:52 hmm Sep 25 16:04:15 arent there libraries for accessing the DOM Sep 25 16:04:30 libwww springs to mind, but im not sure whether im right Sep 25 16:04:43 yeah, but you need a username, so not sure it's great for an application Sep 25 16:04:45 hi florian Sep 25 16:04:49 libtidy is another Sep 25 16:05:23 mmm "need a username" you mean cookie management for actual downloading? Sep 25 16:05:36 thats different and part of ummmmm whatever that library is Sep 25 16:05:46 Amazon web services? Sep 25 16:05:47 * lcuk2 hates his memory Sep 25 16:06:33 not to worry, back to ActiveX for me :( Sep 25 16:07:07 curl Sep 25 16:07:32 yeah libcurl looks good for the downloading Sep 25 16:07:36 libcurl - its what c apps use for downloading and it can access things with cookies and set params and stuff Sep 25 16:08:04 then you pass the downloaded file to one of the DOM modellers and read off from there Sep 25 16:08:36 what's a dom modeller? Sep 25 16:08:52 or rather what lib provides one? Sep 25 16:09:35 im sure libwww does it Sep 25 16:09:44 something to take a html file and give a DOM tree Sep 25 16:10:16 yeah ok, so it parses the data and then you can get bits back Sep 25 16:10:23 that's what I was calling a parser Sep 25 16:10:38 yeah Sep 25 16:10:56 my head is completely gone this afternoon tho Sep 25 16:11:27 if its sml, that should be easier Sep 25 16:11:35 xml Sep 25 16:13:23 anyone here with a n900 that could answer on how often you accidently answer a call with the phone in pocket/while taking it up from your pocket? Sep 25 16:13:48 if im taking it out of my pocket to answer a call, what does it matter Sep 25 16:13:58 its a problem if it answers without you knowing Sep 25 16:14:01 but thats never happened Sep 25 16:14:17 I wonder if the proximity sensor keeps the screen locked.... Sep 25 16:14:30 well if you pull it out to check whos calling, might be someone you wanna ignore or smth like that Sep 25 16:14:40 i dunno - my biggest gripe is volume of the ringer Sep 25 16:14:48 i need a loud one to hear it Sep 25 16:14:53 i turned off vibrate Sep 25 16:15:02 * lcuk2 should turn it back on Sep 25 16:15:18 lcuk2: I'd have thought the speakers would be loud enough? Sep 25 16:15:22 E_USERERROR Sep 25 16:15:26 roger Sep 25 16:15:28 :D Sep 25 16:15:36 ccooke, im half deaf as well as got no memory ;) Sep 25 16:15:46 i got yelled at for having my n95 on the loudest volume :( Sep 25 16:17:03 it also helps to have a recognisable ringtone Sep 25 16:17:12 on my old phone i had the same one for about 18 months Sep 25 16:17:23 re Sep 25 16:17:28 now this keeps runing and i hear it and wonder if they are ever gonna answer it Sep 25 16:17:35 :D Sep 25 16:17:36 ringing Sep 25 16:17:54 bingbing Sep 25 16:18:13 actually, it was the knight rider theme :D Sep 25 16:18:36 uahahauaa Sep 25 16:18:40 and text messages were "close encounters" notes Sep 25 16:19:27 hy, i'm trying to downalod the maemo-sdk-0.6.torrent at https://garage.maemo.org/frs/?group_id=277&release_id=1669 Sep 25 16:19:31 i'm usign utorrent Sep 25 16:19:41 but it's didn't start yet Sep 25 16:19:42 :S Sep 25 16:19:51 hm sdk-0.6? isnt that old? Sep 25 16:20:48 i don't know Sep 25 16:21:11 i'm starting at maemo to try to learn something before submit my idea to nokia n900 push Sep 25 16:21:17 W.T.F. Sep 25 16:21:27 i have some electronics skills Sep 25 16:21:31 hms Sep 25 16:21:33 oh Sep 25 16:21:35 about programing just c/c++ at window Sep 25 16:21:36 s Sep 25 16:21:45 someone forgot to save the topic setting Sep 25 16:21:47 #maemo - the channel for pedos Sep 25 16:21:50 does anyone have the original topic? Sep 25 16:22:15 wogline++ Sep 25 16:22:18 ypps Sep 25 16:22:21 woglinde++ Sep 25 16:22:23 praise irsse Sep 25 16:22:26 aerh irssi Sep 25 16:22:35 :) Sep 25 16:22:42 hm Sep 25 16:22:55 whats the channel flag Sep 25 16:22:58 so, do you know any image with ubuntu and maemo sdk and tools to start programing? Sep 25 16:23:02 +nst Sep 25 16:23:16 Or anyone want to give part of my team Sep 25 16:23:18 ? Sep 25 16:23:18 metro oh it was the vmware image? Sep 25 16:23:31 metro personal I use sdk+ Sep 25 16:23:32 woglinde: irssi can rescussite the topic? Sep 25 16:23:42 yes Sep 25 16:23:45 corsac I can scroll above Sep 25 16:23:49 anyone heard of Moblin? Sep 25 16:23:56 lbt yes Sep 25 16:23:57 ha, and you have topicdiff? :) Sep 25 16:23:59 since over a year Sep 25 16:24:05 apparently they have a dev area called "The Moblin GARAGE" Sep 25 16:24:07 topicdiff just rocks Sep 25 16:24:08 upstarts Sep 25 16:24:24 lbt why not? Sep 25 16:24:39 but they died for me after switching to rpm Sep 25 16:24:55 lbt: actually, it was discussed here yesterday iirc Sep 25 16:24:57 how could Cut-R change the topic? Sep 25 16:25:08 metro trie http://maemo-sdk.garage.maemo.org/ Sep 25 16:25:14 javispedro: eek ,..... old news then Sep 25 16:25:14 lardman everyone can Sep 25 16:25:20 the channel is not protected Sep 25 16:25:23 against it Sep 25 16:25:25 really, that's bad form Sep 25 16:25:29 lbt: well, discussed in the night shift :) Sep 25 16:25:41 I never realised Sep 25 16:25:47 ah the creepy ones Sep 25 16:25:49 i can install it at windows? Sep 25 16:25:57 metro hm no Sep 25 16:26:02 http://garage.moblin.org/ it seems more like an app store to me Sep 25 16:26:25 metro would be intressting if it would work on colinux Sep 25 16:26:32 just reading Moblin 2 point zero http://www.mail-archive.com/dev@moblin.org/msg03182.html Sep 25 16:26:42 something like wubi it's sufficiente? Sep 25 16:26:43 metro http://www.colinux.org/ Sep 25 16:26:44 metRo_: for windows you'll need vmware, colinux, or something like that. Sep 25 16:27:13 wubi should work doesn't it? it's pure ubuntu after all? Sep 25 16:27:19 hm qemu dont works under cygwin? Sep 25 16:27:22 I never tried Sep 25 16:27:34 woglinde: qemu works under mingw too. but what for? Sep 25 16:28:01 javis? for installing sdk+ Sep 25 16:28:12 so, if i use colinux i need an ubunut image with maemo sdk Sep 25 16:28:15 porting sb2 to windows. Sep 25 16:28:17 to load on it Sep 25 16:28:22 javis nah Sep 25 16:28:24 or i just can load an ubuntu image Sep 25 16:28:25 :) Sep 25 16:28:29 and after install maeomo sdk Sep 25 16:28:32 ? Sep 25 16:28:35 metro second one Sep 25 16:28:48 ok, thanks Sep 25 16:28:48 I bet there is no colinux-image with sdk Sep 25 16:28:56 but installing is not that hard Sep 25 16:30:19 i have to download the ubuntu image at http://sourceforge.net/projects/colinux/files/ ? Sep 25 16:30:51 just 40 megas? Sep 25 16:30:53 :S Sep 25 16:31:00 its compressed Sep 25 16:31:05 I think its 5 gb or so Sep 25 16:31:09 and probably minimal, without GUI Sep 25 16:31:09 in real Sep 25 16:31:18 40 MiB -> 5 GiB ratio ??? Sep 25 16:31:23 ah, of a sparse file. Sep 25 16:31:44 but let me see Sep 25 16:31:49 that doesn't have a GUI? Sep 25 16:31:52 1gig Sep 25 16:31:59 its in the filename Sep 25 16:32:19 it's true Sep 25 16:32:22 because it's a sparsefile Sep 25 16:33:33 can i make some questions just about if its possible to do in nokina n900? Sep 25 16:33:47 just ask Sep 25 16:33:47 shoot. Sep 25 16:34:36 if i'm browsing and select a word with the mouse open a menu, it's possible to add a button to that menu? Sep 25 16:34:44 per exempla Sep 25 16:35:04 i select "ball" and have an optin open it with aplication xpto Sep 25 16:35:06 mouse? Sep 25 16:35:16 the pointer Sep 25 16:35:17 the n900 has a mouse? Sep 25 16:35:22 stylus? Sep 25 16:35:26 that you can use in the browser Sep 25 16:35:27 to select Sep 25 16:35:30 aaa Sep 25 16:35:34 but that's only in the browser. Sep 25 16:35:38 i know Sep 25 16:35:38 (afaik) Sep 25 16:35:49 but it's possible? Sep 25 16:36:10 javispedro, xterm has it to Sep 25 16:36:24 VDVsx: a, good one :) Sep 25 16:36:49 does anyone understand __force in gcc ? Sep 25 16:36:59 lbt no Sep 25 16:37:29 sorry, wrong chan Sep 25 16:41:30 " lbt no" it's for me? Sep 25 16:42:03 nope Sep 25 16:42:10 oki Sep 25 16:42:34 it was for lbt Sep 25 16:42:39 (as for myself, I don't know the answer) Sep 25 16:44:56 do you programer to maemo using python or c/c++? Sep 25 16:45:16 qt so c++ Sep 25 16:45:19 why i have to choise one or another? Sep 25 16:45:33 choice depends on many factors Sep 25 16:46:31 woglinde: there are Python-qt bindings aren;t there? Sep 25 16:47:22 lardman yes but dont know if they work well on maemo Sep 25 16:47:36 fair enough Sep 25 16:47:41 nokia brazil startet in owns python-qt bindings Sep 25 16:47:41 i will want to use to bluethoot Sep 25 16:49:12 http://www.pyside.org/downloads/ Sep 25 16:49:35 hm oh Sep 25 16:49:37 and i will want to connect the aplication to google maps apis per exemple. I will send a word(country) to google maps api to know the coordinates Sep 25 16:49:45 wrong link Sep 25 16:49:47 Alguem fala portugues? Sep 25 16:50:51 oh was the right link Sep 25 16:50:52 hms Sep 25 16:51:08 *g* Sep 25 16:51:16 http://www.pyside.org/faq/ Sep 25 16:52:37 damnit Sep 25 16:52:41 my fucking server died on me again Sep 25 16:52:46 i'm starting to think the ram is overheating Sep 25 16:52:50 the dimms are very hot Sep 25 16:52:59 macer haha Sep 25 16:53:03 i'm going to have to get some new cpu fans and thermal compound Sep 25 16:53:05 byeone with headpipes Sep 25 16:53:12 and see about getting some dimm heatsinks Sep 25 16:53:15 as I accendently did Sep 25 16:53:25 ugh Sep 25 16:53:26 now I dont can use dual channel ram Sep 25 16:53:33 because of the heatpipes Sep 25 16:53:37 yeah? Sep 25 16:53:40 i have 8 dimms in it Sep 25 16:53:42 8GB Sep 25 16:53:52 so all the slots are full Sep 25 16:53:55 they are ecc Sep 25 16:53:59 uh Sep 25 16:54:00 socket 940 board Sep 25 16:54:08 ecc is not cheap Sep 25 16:54:13 yeah i know Sep 25 16:54:29 i can't seem to get any type of log when it freezes either Sep 25 16:54:36 * lcuk2 glares @ qwerty12 for getting there first as usual :P Sep 25 16:54:37 so i have no idea what is the actual cause Sep 25 16:54:45 when the hell kvm project will official release the para disk driver for windows Sep 25 16:54:56 it seems like a heat problemw ith either the cpus or the dimms Sep 25 16:55:05 lcuk2: I'm in the South. I'll always be faster than you Sep 25 16:55:22 * Macer watercools the entire system Sep 25 16:55:22 haha Sep 25 16:55:27 yeah - you moved like lightening when crashanddie_ went to shake your hand Sep 25 16:55:28 hm on nov 6/7/8 I will be in cambridge Sep 25 16:55:32 i should find some sort of nonconductivec plasma to pour all over it Sep 25 16:55:37 or to submerge it in Sep 25 16:55:39 :) Sep 25 16:55:46 i wonder if anybody has ever tried something like that Sep 25 16:55:47 just use regular water Sep 25 16:55:49 it will be ok Sep 25 16:55:56 some distilled water? :) Sep 25 16:56:20 theres tonnes of docs about full emersion cooling Sep 25 16:56:32 it would still be nice to find a nonconductive liquid to cool it in Sep 25 16:56:36 are there? Sep 25 16:56:41 i've never seen a system modded in such a way Sep 25 16:56:59 that would be awesome Sep 25 16:57:10 Macer: there a few youtube videos about a oil emersion cooling iirc Sep 25 16:57:15 wow Sep 25 16:57:16 s/a/some Sep 25 16:57:21 how well did it work? Sep 25 16:57:30 http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/08/27/1930214 Sep 25 16:57:47 http://electronics-cooling.com/articles/1996/may/may96_04.php Sep 25 16:57:58 http://www.maximumpc.com/article/features/hardcorepc_reactor Sep 25 16:58:35 many many more Sep 25 16:58:39 ok, i already have the ubuntu from http://www.colinux.org/ Sep 25 16:58:40 google is your guide Sep 25 16:58:41 and now? Sep 25 16:58:53 Ubuntu-9.04.ext3.1gb Sep 25 16:58:56 heh Sep 25 16:58:57 i have that? Sep 25 16:58:59 ! Sep 25 16:59:32 you need to install colinux Sep 25 16:59:46 and follow the beginnersguide to setup it right Sep 25 17:03:36 eldar is truly a bit crazy Sep 25 17:03:45 he should stop trusting his "method" to identify nokia employees Sep 25 17:03:56 wow Sep 25 17:03:58 that computer is awesome Sep 25 17:04:07 the one submerged in the oil by hardcore computers Sep 25 17:04:10 heh Sep 25 17:04:30 javispedro, are you also a nokian now ? heheh Sep 25 17:04:31 i'm complet lost trying to use the colinux Sep 25 17:04:37 vmware it's free? Sep 25 17:04:41 heh i was just reading that eldar review thread Sep 25 17:04:41 or virtual box? Sep 25 17:04:45 virtualbox is Sep 25 17:04:46 * lbt glances at his Cray-1 submersible board Sep 25 17:04:53 lbt: heh Sep 25 17:05:02 does it matter if a board is "submersible" or not? Sep 25 17:05:10 i mean wouldn't it really be a matter of the liquid used? Sep 25 17:05:13 metRo_ whats the problem with colinux? Sep 25 17:05:24 metro too hard to follow a beginners guide? Sep 25 17:05:25 as long as it is non-conductive the type of motherboard shouldn't matter should it? Sep 25 17:05:33 VDVsx: not yet. but I just saw a twitter comment about DrNokSnes being a "builtin game" :P Sep 25 17:05:37 the board is solid copper - different heat flow to air cooling Sep 25 17:05:46 lbt: oh Sep 25 17:05:58 i cant find the begginers guide :S Sep 25 17:06:06 lbt: i see.. interesting. i'm sure a standard mboard would be a lot better off submerged too :) Sep 25 17:06:15 javispedro, so you are a contractor, hihihi Sep 25 17:06:18 is there a known issue with the n810 where the power suply/battery are concerened? Sep 25 17:06:22 that thing is frigging awesome tho Sep 25 17:06:34 i still would like to know why my computer is dying on me though Sep 25 17:06:40 it's just beacause i cant find an exe Sep 25 17:06:48 "Over the next few days we managed to identify around 144 Nokia employees including those who worked on Maemo and had personal accounts on Twitter." Sep 25 17:06:52 i think it is because i started pushing it by running 4 vboxes on it at once Sep 25 17:06:52 pft. Sep 25 17:07:00 and it's starting to produce more heat from the cpus Sep 25 17:07:01 poor wazd. Sep 25 17:07:09 maybe a swap of cpu fans and thermal compound will help Sep 25 17:07:14 I wonder if he though his name "sounded finnish". Sep 25 17:07:15 metro -> http://colinux.wikia.com/wiki/Getting_Started_with_coLinux Sep 25 17:07:20 my battery has drained out. I connected the power supply to the power socket and then to the n810 though nothing happens (it isn't charging) Sep 25 17:07:21 i'll get some retarded super oversized cpu fans and see if that helps Sep 25 17:07:26 javispedro, url please Sep 25 17:07:26 maybe a new case too Sep 25 17:07:30 colinux is better than Virtual Box? Sep 25 17:07:32 VDVsx: http://eldarmurtazin.livejournal.com/501202.html Sep 25 17:07:33 javis *5* Sep 25 17:07:34 something retardedly oversized Sep 25 17:07:43 to fit some 30cm fans on the cpus or something Sep 25 17:07:48 bbl Sep 25 17:08:42 its time for dinner Sep 25 17:08:44 I think Sep 25 17:08:48 till later Sep 25 17:08:54 cy Sep 25 17:09:16 javispedro, bahh, no names, no fun :( Sep 25 17:10:25 I wonder if he realizes there's also a public Maemo bugzilla. To get "what will happen in the world of Maemo in the next 1.5 years". Sep 25 17:12:56 I think the implication is that everyone with a nokia IP that's interested must be a part of the team Sep 25 17:13:02 Which is kinda silly Sep 25 17:13:09 "In some cases I simply spent several hours in a friendly company drinking tea" he should've been drinking late night with them to get info Sep 25 17:15:49 hey wazd <- one of the 144 Nokia employees that Elder identified, hhiihih Sep 25 17:16:03 *Eldar Sep 25 17:16:17 wazd: yes, I hope you're enjoying your job at Nokia :) Sep 25 17:16:22 VDVsx: orly? :D Sep 25 17:16:44 javispedro: wish I had a real chance... Sep 25 17:16:54 wazd, http://eldarmurtazin.livejournal.com/501202.html Sep 25 17:17:20 and besides, i really doubt anyone inside even nokia has a full idea what maemo is going to be in 1.5 years since the work to get maemo there hasn't been done yet. they might know where they personally hope it will be at Sep 25 17:17:35 wazd, btw, I need some of your wisdom later :) Sep 25 17:18:10 glass: even then, 1.5 years is a short timeframe Sep 25 17:18:17 that's why I was suggesting bugzilla. Sep 25 17:18:24 VDVsx: oh, I read that one in russian Sep 25 17:18:48 javispedro: yeah, but say, with getting n900 to market, i'd wager that a lot was to do with getting fabbing right(plenty of omap3 products seemed to be 'late') Sep 25 17:19:07 OS X on the Mini 9 is disturbingly better. Sep 25 17:19:21 VDVsx: oh my god, he traced Quim Gil! We have been working on his fake identity for 20 years! Sep 25 17:19:30 oh my god!! Sep 25 17:19:34 now samsung will hire him. Sep 25 17:19:42 hehe Sep 25 17:19:53 ;) Sep 25 17:21:55 the essay is pretty much "look i got some information!"... i could've pointed him to a bar or two that he'd have gotten more info by just sitting there every night Sep 25 17:22:12 wazd: eldar getting lyrical ? Sep 25 17:22:18 glass: or certain plance in Amsterdam. Sep 25 17:22:22 s/plance/place Sep 25 17:22:23 but that info could've been of grade a balony Sep 25 17:22:35 because thats how things roll Sep 25 17:22:43 RST38h: he always was in fact) Sep 25 17:23:01 maemo isn't a mainstream nokia os despite some people telling me (that it would be at this point in time) couple of years ago Sep 25 17:23:23 are there still Sega headsharks at the main entrace of Nintendo HQ? Sep 25 17:24:02 this seems so 90ish Sep 25 17:24:31 nokias big secret is just selling phones with a markup Sep 25 17:24:44 moto and sony-e kinda missed that thing Sep 25 17:25:12 moto aura worth whole moto line Sep 25 17:25:14 moto was long racing to the bottom Sep 25 17:25:36 it's just beautiful, so beautiful Sep 25 17:25:37 RST38h: it was going to bottom while the economy was in upturn Sep 25 17:25:38 hey samsung! I work for Nokia! please offer me "salaries 4-5 times bigger than that of the president"!! Sep 25 17:26:21 wtf? Sep 25 17:26:47 glass: their non-consumer equipment is cool though Sep 25 17:26:49 luke-jr: scrollback ;) Sep 25 17:26:51 Looks like this channel contains of nokia employees, intel employees and me :D Sep 25 17:27:03 RST38h: yeah the enterprise/industry stuff isn't so bad Sep 25 17:27:06 i have colinux works Sep 25 17:27:07 RST38h: they're making money there though Sep 25 17:27:13 wazd: you work for both? Sep 25 17:27:16 (and joking of course) Sep 25 17:27:21 where i put the Ubuntu-9.04.ext3.1gb.fs? Sep 25 17:27:51 SpeedEvil: I work for food :D Sep 25 17:28:01 metRo_: wogline is gone and I don't know the first thing about colinux Sep 25 17:28:07 Does food pay well? =) Sep 25 17:28:09 i wonder if that essays writer thought of that companies get nokia roadmaps by just asking Sep 25 17:28:15 * SpeedEvil throws wazd a bannanna. Sep 25 17:28:36 BANANA BANANA BANANA Sep 25 17:29:02 * Myrtti votes for cheesecake Sep 25 17:29:14 whitechocolatecheesecake ftw Sep 25 17:29:29 whitechocolatecheesecakebananaflavour Sep 25 17:29:53 Myrtti: I heard you want hello kitty theme?) Sep 25 17:30:36 so anyways, could someone point me to a photo essay of n900, preferably with a ruler next to it? Sep 25 17:30:41 wazd: anything subtle and with a hint of pink is appreciated, not necessarily all pink or all hellokitty Sep 25 17:31:12 i'll try virtual box Sep 25 17:31:19 my xubuntu is quite pink, but it's not too tacky to my eyes, and I prefer to keep stuff nice without being too obtrusive Sep 25 17:31:43 glass: would the president of brazil do? Sep 25 17:31:44 slopping pink everywhere is just tacky Sep 25 17:32:25 SpeedEvil: hmm. no. Sep 25 17:32:38 brazil is kinda sketchy country Sep 25 17:32:50 "i've seen videos" Sep 25 17:37:33 wazd: So, he deviously gets Maemo's organizational chart. And what use is it to him? Sep 25 17:37:35 =) Sep 25 17:38:01 RST38h: his master plan is to send that to samsung so that samsung may hire "key maemo" people. Sep 25 17:38:06 2. ??? Sep 25 17:38:07 3. profit. Sep 25 17:38:24 today my neighbour from London leaves Moscow after 6months of work :( sad :( Sep 25 17:38:30 Hmmm...But according to his logic Samsung will not hire him =) Sep 25 17:38:42 wazd: Lemme guess, business visa? =) Sep 25 17:38:55 javis: Besides, he does not look Korean! Sep 25 17:39:26 RST38h: maybe, haven't got much details :) Sep 25 17:42:00 RST38h: well, who knows. Sep 25 17:44:13 glass, mmm why do you need ruler Sep 25 17:46:50 * lcuk2 plays portal Sep 25 17:48:30 glass: simply scale off the published dimesions Sep 25 17:48:45 And shop in a ruler if you need one. Sep 25 17:48:59 Or for more comedic purposes, an elephant. Sep 25 17:57:32 wazd, so how well are nokia employees like yourself paid? ;) Sep 25 17:58:24 Stskeeps: some potatoes, bread, butter :D Sep 25 17:58:31 bacon Sep 25 17:59:06 rather, his bacon is safe as long as he complies! =) Sep 25 18:07:55 maybe it's butter wrapped in bacon in a potatoe? Sep 25 18:08:36 Nah, he gets paid in salmiakki of course ;) Sep 25 18:09:10 salmiakkikossu Sep 25 18:09:16 friday bottle Sep 25 18:09:49 Myrtti: Is that the salmiakki liquor? Sep 25 18:09:57 yup Sep 25 18:10:05 or salmiakki diluted in vodka Sep 25 18:10:23 single malt plz Sep 25 18:10:27 with some water Sep 25 18:10:50 * lcuk2 still has box of finnish cigars - 1. lets hope hes not paid in them lol Sep 25 18:11:00 Ah: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salmiakki_Koskenkorva Sep 25 18:11:30 http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2009/09/sydney-dust-storm-from-space/ -- Why am I moving to Australia? this suddenly seems like a bad idea Sep 25 18:12:16 http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2009/09/reader-photo-gallery-crazy-dust-storm-turns-sydney-red/ Sep 25 18:12:19 asj_wrk-: WELCOME TO FINLAND Sep 25 18:12:23 *snerk* Sep 25 18:12:35 Myrtti: hmm? Sep 25 18:12:41 we love you long tiem Sep 25 18:12:47 ;-) Sep 25 18:13:05 don't need to be afraid of dust storms here :-P Sep 25 18:14:10 Myrtti: I used to live in Canada, no dust storms there either, but -40 gets tirring Sep 25 18:15:53 asj_wrk-: when you get down there can you please clean my apartment? Sep 25 18:16:17 toggles_w: only if I get to move in...I don't have a place to stay you see ;) Sep 25 18:17:30 licorice is ammonium chloride? Sep 25 18:17:41 yup Sep 25 18:17:52 * RST38h now understands why he didn't like it so much Sep 25 18:17:59 It is freaking DRIED PISS! Sep 25 18:18:08 one of the five members of the candy family in Finland Sep 25 18:18:28 Myrtti: I liked your gel candy much better =) Sep 25 18:18:55 salmiakki, chocolate, fruit candy, (xylitol) cough drops and (xylitol) chewing gum Sep 25 18:19:13 gel candy? hmmmm Sep 25 18:19:23 asj_wrk-: hmm.. will be a problem, i'll ask my tenant if he minds.. Sep 25 18:19:28 the fruit gels were delicious Sep 25 18:19:41 heh, yeah Sep 25 18:19:46 toggles_w: ah well, probably in the wrong city anyways Sep 25 18:20:03 toggles_w: commute from perth to brisbane would umm not be so great eh? Sep 25 18:21:07 Depends if you've got a flying car. Sep 25 18:21:17 or like fflyer miles.. Sep 25 18:21:21 SpeedEvil: it's still 5000km... Sep 25 18:21:47 (and I do own a plane...even at 300km/hr it's still 5000km) Sep 25 18:22:08 You clearly need a hypersonic flying car. :) Sep 25 18:22:18 clearly Sep 25 18:38:48 Apple is developing iTablet since 1987: http://gizmodo.com/5367880/apples-1987-knowledge-navigator-makes-new-tablets-look-bad Sep 25 18:41:25 gizmodo are such apple fan boys ;) Sep 25 18:42:21 they like shiney! Sep 25 18:53:01 wikipedia mentioned usa release date may be the 27th of september, anyone here able to confirm that? Sep 25 18:55:38 hi there, some one know a maemo SDK installation manual for openSUSE? Sep 25 18:56:25 mau: not afaik Sep 25 18:57:01 setting up a debian/ubuntu VM is probably easiest Sep 25 18:59:09 Ho! ok , Tanks Sep 25 18:59:42 good morning Sep 25 19:03:29 lbt, Sep 25 19:03:33 servo control Sep 25 19:03:36 lol @ leocad - ni ce Sep 25 19:03:39 mmm chicken. Sep 25 19:03:51 servos... yes Sep 25 19:04:22 i can wire up the remote control car i gather with one of those boards - or equally arduino Sep 25 19:04:36 * lcuk2 ponders location sensing Sep 25 19:04:48 they have 2 DACS and I use one to control the throttle Sep 25 19:05:00 it's 3-channel though Sep 25 19:05:06 nice Sep 25 19:05:22 I haven't played much more with it since the other day Sep 25 19:05:31 its then just about control and feedback Sep 25 19:05:35 yeah i know Sep 25 19:05:47 or rather you shut up about it lol Sep 25 19:06:01 you put a fan on, was that just a proto for the other kind of fan you would use Sep 25 19:06:35 heh, just playing with varying 'voltage' using PWM Sep 25 19:06:44 yeah Sep 25 19:07:06 i might have a browse over maplin this weekend Sep 25 19:07:14 if the N900 had usb I'd do more Sep 25 19:07:17 Sep 25 19:07:19 see what i could gather for sensing Sep 25 19:07:32 yeah understood, but theres more than one way to deal with that Sep 25 19:07:38 the board is great for that kind of thing Sep 25 19:07:39 doesnt even need usb technically Sep 25 19:07:46 can be done from the audio out if reqd Sep 25 19:07:49 imagination required Sep 25 19:08:35 * lcuk2 really wants to look into echo lcoation Sep 25 19:08:37 location Sep 25 19:08:55 laser rangefinding is impractical at the scale required Sep 25 19:09:07 and i only want to find out if theres stuff infront Sep 25 19:09:29 * lcuk2 might rip apart one of those 80s robots Sep 25 19:09:32 * lbt has a mate who uses R/C planes with twin cameras on gimbals Sep 25 19:09:35 the controllable trax things Sep 25 19:09:49 neat Sep 25 19:09:50 he uses a headmounted HUD with head position sensors Sep 25 19:09:55 to direct the cameras Sep 25 19:10:07 he gets a 3D view from the plane Sep 25 19:10:15 and can 'look around' Sep 25 19:10:20 just by looking around Sep 25 19:10:32 the coolest bit is the transmitterr Sep 25 19:10:33 speaking of robots... you lot seen this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZrJeYFxpUyQ Sep 25 19:10:45 which also tracks the plane Sep 25 19:11:02 to maintain the wifi connection Sep 25 19:11:11 uber-electronics-geek Sep 25 19:11:36 no fkin wonder you put a tv in your bathroom lol Sep 25 19:11:48 with friends like that, i'd do crazy stuff :D Sep 25 19:11:59 heh Sep 25 19:12:13 that actually sounds really impressive Sep 25 19:12:36 animatronics puppeteer baseline control system Sep 25 19:13:37 biggest problem with these setups and advancing further into robotics is supllying enough power Sep 25 19:14:24 nah, it's that "make clean" doesn't work on soldering Sep 25 19:14:57 heh Sep 25 19:15:00 :D Sep 25 19:15:15 I wish Sep 25 19:15:46 sigh... my soldering iron is more of a handicap than anything else Sep 25 19:16:21 my uni didn't replace their tips last year, and even the broken/bent irons in the lab worked better than mine :( Sep 25 19:16:41 lbt: what's this for? Sep 25 19:16:48 fun Sep 25 19:16:54 maybe PUSH Sep 25 19:16:59 nice Sep 25 19:17:45 I have an idea for that, but I'm waiting for legal clarification about something from Nokia, as it was originally proposed by one of my profs Sep 25 19:19:00 btw, http://ffejery.wordpress.com/2009/09/25/various-types-of-free/ :) Sep 25 19:19:12 lbt: what type of car is it? Sep 25 19:19:20 :) Sep 25 19:19:30 more details later... Sep 25 19:19:36 heh, okay Sep 25 19:23:33 nice n810s going for 199-225 euro Sep 25 19:24:25 woot had one I thought for under $200 US a month or two back Sep 25 19:25:19 Yeah you can see how much european govt adds to prices. Sep 25 19:25:57 well woot is a deal a day/emptying inventory site Sep 25 19:26:57 it's about 30% on average Sep 25 19:27:10 down to 10% in some areas Sep 25 19:27:49 a good comparison is amazon.de to amazon.com Sep 25 19:28:36 US seems to have unusually low consumer electronics prices, when I was in AU it's almost always cheaper to buy it in the US and ship it over, it seems Sep 25 19:28:53 I got my 770 from woot. the rest is history Sep 25 19:29:55 Proteous: lol, me too Sep 25 19:30:48 asj_wrk-: all those differences are due to government intervention into the marketplace. in a free-trade situation, prices would equilibrate. Sep 25 19:31:00 * asj_wrk- scratches his head. I put 2 of my pci cards in a system everything is ok. I put 3 of them in there and all hell breaks lose. sigh, 1 maybe 2 weeks left Sep 25 19:31:22 perhaps an issue with irq sharing? Sep 25 19:32:00 they're all sharring irqs with everything, hmmm, maybe though. I think it's a memory leak/disaster. The driver is nasty Sep 25 19:32:18 * ShadowJK wonders what the import tariff for consumer electronics from the US is like Sep 25 19:34:24 Shadow: ask someone to bring the device Sep 25 19:35:10 ShadowJK: where ar eyou? Sep 25 19:35:19 .fi Sep 25 19:35:19 gimme some ideas... what's the best way to have an n800 detect when you are at your office? I'm thinking a bluetooth signal that connects to a bluetooth dongle Sep 25 19:35:24 But I meant in general Sep 25 19:35:32 ShadowJK: 6% to the UK - + 15% vat Sep 25 19:35:33 unixSnob: Whistling! Sep 25 19:35:40 ShadowJK: i imagine it'd be similar in .fi Sep 25 19:35:54 RST38h: is that an app? Sep 25 19:36:02 No, it is a sound! Sep 25 19:36:59 VDVsx: pingy pingy ping Sep 25 19:38:11 * RST38h rejoices Sep 25 19:38:26 lbt, http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_Summit_2009/Schedule/Day_2#Git_hands-on_workshop Sep 25 19:38:35 need some love ^ ;) Sep 25 19:38:54 evening all Sep 25 19:38:57 unixSnob: kde used to be able to lock/unlock the screen per a bluetooth device...that feature seems to have vanished now that I want it Sep 25 19:39:14 VDVsx: I just noticed ;) Sep 25 19:39:21 asj_wrk-: I saw that on Windows a little while back Sep 25 19:39:42 seemed kinda handy for my work/home machines... Sep 25 19:40:13 yeah, was just thinking about it a couple of days ago - not for home, but for work (where I have to use the dreaded Windows) Sep 25 19:40:36 asj_wrk-: yeah, it's a good feature.. there's no good reason to remove it Sep 25 19:40:55 is it not available as an add-on still? Sep 25 19:40:58 I was thinking perhaps it was easy to spoof, but really who would care? Sep 25 19:41:18 you have access to the machine, init=/bin/sh isn't that hard Sep 25 19:41:20 asj_wrk-: perhaps, but that doesn't mean the feature is insecure Sep 25 19:42:16 it could be used /in addition/ to your password, so you must know something, and also have something Sep 25 19:43:09 lol, sourceforge project for Windows anyway: http://btprox.sourceforge.net/ Sep 25 19:43:14 it could also setup an encrypted link using diffie-helman, and send a password Sep 25 19:43:41 http://lifehacker.com/359060/use-a-bluetooth-phone-to-lockunlock-ubuntu Sep 25 19:43:50 I would just like to see it work by turning aff the screen saver, waking up the monitor, etc when you come in range. Would be awesome, you walk in the office and sit down at your computer and tada :) Sep 25 19:44:18 But the reason I bring it up is not to login -- it's because I would like a timecard app that I don't have to clock in and out of Sep 25 19:44:27 asj_wrk-: except when you have a class 3 (or whatever it is) device and it unlocks when you come within 100m ;) Sep 25 19:44:55 anyway, looks like a program called BlueProximity still exists Sep 25 19:45:05 installing :) Sep 25 19:45:42 * lardman is glad he's achieved something useful this evening ;) Sep 25 19:46:01 all timecard apps i've found so far expect you to tap on a stopwatch Sep 25 19:46:06 lardman: first time for everything Sep 25 19:47:10 qwerty12_N810: oi! Sep 25 19:47:37 cor, the cheek of the youth of today Sep 25 19:49:10 sweet this is a cool app Sep 25 19:49:48 works does it? Good good Sep 25 19:50:05 well let me take my phone away from my desk :) Sep 25 19:50:13 oolalala Sep 25 19:50:16 http://saunalahti.fi/puhelimet/puhelin.php?id=342&type=handsetmodel Sep 25 19:51:23 I wish I already didn't have such a good deal with saunalahti Sep 25 19:51:24 well it lost contact to the phone... Sep 25 19:51:32 they'll undoubtedly fuck it up if I try upgrade :) Sep 25 19:51:52 Can N900 open > 800x480 windows? Sep 25 19:52:00 For apps that need 800x600 or more? Sep 25 19:52:17 Nokia would tell you to fix your app Sep 25 19:54:29 pupnik: not right now afaik, although there are some suggestions to implement scrollable windows Sep 25 19:54:31 Some people will want to run pc-linux apps, not just finger-friendly maemo5 apps Sep 25 19:54:38 k ty RST38h Sep 25 19:55:20 pupnik: as far as I understand the hardware, this should not be a problem technically Sep 25 19:55:23 it would be cute to pan over virtual desktop with device tilt Sep 25 19:55:32 cool beans Sep 25 19:57:08 ok blueproximity works great, but if you leave the settings dialog open it doesn't work. Dialog has to be closed Sep 25 19:57:08 are there any decent dbus docs/example codes out there? Sep 25 19:57:18 or even better, something in C showing how to open a url? Sep 25 19:57:36 keesj: model your controller with this: http://www.leocad.org/ Sep 25 19:59:16 lardman: http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-developers/2009-September/020783.html Sep 25 20:01:11 lardman: works great, uses signal strength for a "distance" so even would work with class 3 :) Sep 25 20:01:12 thanks, what about in Diablo, etc? Sep 25 20:01:25 lardman: Same thing for Diablo Sep 25 20:01:29 asj_wrk-: ah, I always wondered how that would work Sep 25 20:01:33 qwerty12_N810: good stuff, thanks Sep 25 20:02:47 "open_new_window" is nicer than "load_url" IMO Sep 25 20:03:12 asj_wrk-: did you notice different distances can be configured? Sep 25 20:03:31 is that also in hildon-mime? Sep 25 20:03:42 * unixSnob wonders if blueproximity can be configured to take different actions at different distances Sep 25 20:03:48 hildon_mime_open_file() Sep 25 20:04:09 unixSnob: seemed to be written in Python, so easily hackable Sep 25 20:04:18 iirc Sep 25 20:04:48 unixSnob: not without changing it. Now a greating would rock, as you enter the room the computer could say "good morning" and as you sit down wake up :) Sep 25 20:05:02 "Hello master" or the like? Sep 25 20:05:05 lardman: hildon_mime_open_file will look up the correct app that handles whatever file you gave it; don't think it does URLs Sep 25 20:05:05 imagin how that could annoy your coworkers.... Sep 25 20:05:21 i want to have the Beetlejuice voice saying "hey, wait, come back.. don't leave me here!!" as I walk away Sep 25 20:05:28 lardman: think opening a file from the file manager Sep 25 20:06:26 have it pair with one of their phones...when they get close you could say "Just what are you are doing Dave?" Sep 25 20:06:45 yeah.. would be shits and giggles Sep 25 20:06:49 oh, the russian posted in the eldarthred on t.m.o :p Sep 25 20:06:57 and? Sep 25 20:07:06 just saying Sep 25 20:07:07 FIGHT Sep 25 20:07:20 qwerty12_N810: yeah, the naming indicates that, but the question also specified opening an arbitrary url, so no idea Sep 25 20:07:24 screen saver could switch to a gun facing the colleague Sep 25 20:07:31 or a middle finger Sep 25 20:07:42 Ah, let us see if the guy is real Sep 25 20:07:56 ah so libosso, open_new_window() you were talking about? Sep 25 20:08:17 lardman: either way, calling the browser using the osso functions works; there's even a header file that defines this stuff Sep 25 20:08:25 ah, now he is really pissed off! Sep 25 20:08:37 cool thanks, didn't get that far in the email thread :p Sep 25 20:08:59 :) Sep 25 20:13:49 * RST38h considers buying industrial quantities of popcorn tomorrow Sep 25 20:18:17 http://blog.audiojungle.net/resources/29-music-making-apps-for-linux/ Sep 25 20:18:58 rsalveti: can set you up with Cub Scout popcorn ;) Sep 25 20:19:14 rsalveti: sorry, bad tab completion... Sep 25 20:25:19 cool, Stefan Kost has ported jokosher "A guitarist's multi-track recording tool" http://www.grancanariadesktopsummit.org/node/215 Sep 25 20:27:52 anybody see his talk at gran canaria? Sep 25 20:35:38 A very cool dude... http://www.buzztard.org/index.php/Main_Page Sep 25 20:39:29 lol Sep 25 20:39:32 Eldar's on Talk. Sep 25 20:39:40 :D Sep 25 20:39:55 Poor baby Sep 25 20:39:56 http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=333754&postcount=247 Sep 25 20:40:07 "Unfortunately for someone, my connection in this industry much higher than anyone here could have and I working with all companies (vendors/operators) on the market (except a few, frankly speaking)." Sep 25 20:40:13 "Look at all of my important friends!" Sep 25 20:41:17 n900 could easily handle such an app given a large virtual desktop you could 'slide' around http://linux-sound.org/images/blog/full-size/1-bt-buzztard.png Sep 25 20:42:07 i am starting to lock-on to this large desktop idea Sep 25 20:43:47 omg, another awesome idea Sep 25 20:43:57 * pupnik asplodes Sep 25 20:45:20 interesting to see that the freesmartphone.org people are banking on porting to the palm pre rather than the n900... http://www.vanille-media.de/site/index.php/2009/09/25/gsm-palm-pre-on-the-horizon/#comment-121636 Sep 25 20:46:10 Weird Sep 25 20:46:17 They're probably pissed about oFono. Sep 25 20:46:32 how is palm countering chicken-egg problems for the pre? Sep 25 20:46:39 pre software Sep 25 20:46:43 "The Palm Pre is currently our major hope — all other hardware being either too closed (yes, this includes the Nokia N900) or already outdated." Sep 25 20:46:49 Be nice to see that justified. Sep 25 20:46:56 GeneralAntilles: the n900 doesn't use OFono either Sep 25 20:47:02 Since, at its core, it's basically the same damn hardware. Sep 25 20:47:10 Robot101, right, but Palm isn't involved in oFono. Sep 25 20:47:17 what palm pre has that's so much more open? Sep 25 20:47:18 Robot101, so it feels like a spite issue to me. Sep 25 20:47:33 somehow I assume it has pretty much all the same stuff Sep 25 20:47:33 there are Nokia folks hacking on OFono, and putting ISI stuff into it already, so its getting a lot less closed tbh Sep 25 20:47:39 GeneralAntilles: yeah, I asked for that justification in the blogpost Sep 25 20:47:49 we ported OFono to the G1's modem too Sep 25 20:48:20 Maybe he's thinking released is more open than unreleased. :P Sep 25 20:48:32 i thought ofono was gpl Sep 25 20:48:36 i might be wrong. Sep 25 20:48:51 kind of interesting since it looks like the n900's stack also used d-bus, right? Sep 25 20:49:48 I know couple openmoko users, but somehow I do rate them, and even independent of the actual hardware they would be using, quite a fringe community in contrast to maemo Sep 25 20:50:29 i wonder what kind of surgery you need on thumb to type on palm pre Sep 25 20:50:31 kirma: I had an openmoko 1973 Sep 25 20:50:36 openmoko was doomed to failure from the start, they targeted devs with a touch screen only phone Sep 25 20:50:49 wirelessdreamer: yes, I would agree with you there Sep 25 20:50:51 why not bluetooth keyboard Sep 25 20:50:54 that's one of the biggest faults of the project Sep 25 20:50:58 who wants to carry one Sep 25 20:51:14 pupnik: point of an on-phone keyboard is to make interfacing with it easy on the go Sep 25 20:51:20 i want my device in 1 pocket, even if its big, not a phone in one, keyborad in the other Sep 25 20:51:24 yeah Sep 25 20:51:36 I tried really hard to stick with my 1973 Sep 25 20:51:43 but only recently did it become usable as a phone Sep 25 20:51:43 i appreciate the keyboard on n810 for e.g. but i was a happy camper with bluetooth keyboard on 770 Sep 25 20:51:52 that, and most of the community was using the freerunnr Sep 25 20:51:53 er Sep 25 20:51:54 real typing, real speed Sep 25 20:52:45 I must say I found finger interface of N900 a bit tedious with my (not gigantic) finger size... it would be totally unbearable if I would need to use virtual keyboard in addition to that :I Sep 25 20:52:57 heh Sep 25 20:53:10 it also comes with a builtin stylus, right? Sep 25 20:53:52 anyone know whats required to unbind the edge buttons on the n900 so a seperate user space program can control them? Sep 25 20:54:06 ya paroneayea, comes with a stylus Sep 25 20:54:53 wireless: Have your tried simply reading them as GTK events? Sep 25 20:55:40 RST38h: I don't have an n900 yet =P Sep 25 20:55:58 and I want to disable the builtin functions Sep 25 20:56:11 paroneayea: it also comes with a keyboard :) Sep 25 20:56:18 (and stylus) Sep 25 20:56:50 I want to port my user space chorded keyboard over once I get mine http://joy2chord.sourceforge.net/ Sep 25 20:57:42 night all Sep 25 20:57:47 nn Sep 25 20:57:56 nite lardman Sep 25 20:58:15 hmm, should probably get some popcorn for the eldar-thread Sep 25 21:12:46 DWORD! Sep 25 21:40:27 if i visit a page, can i hack the javascript and make that run instead of the website's code? Sep 25 21:40:55 greasemonkey Sep 25 21:41:14 actually.... Sep 25 21:41:34 pupnik: go look at firebug... it's awesome Sep 25 21:42:49 ty lbt Sep 25 21:45:36 pupnik, privoxy is also very good Sep 25 21:45:43 a transforming proxy server :) Sep 25 21:46:41 yeah i used that too Sep 25 21:52:18 join #maemo-pub Sep 25 21:52:22 oops Sep 25 22:20:42 oh bleh Sep 25 22:20:50 the bluetooth in N900 is broadcom? Sep 25 22:20:57 oh well :-( Sep 25 22:21:04 hope that's fixed in RX-71 ;-) Sep 25 22:24:29 hello Sep 25 22:24:52 i have a question about the N900 btw maemo Sep 25 22:25:54 the answer is "Green." Sep 25 22:27:29 A sort of bluey-green. Sep 25 22:27:39 Shaded more to leaf-green on the bottom. Sep 25 22:27:55 maemo: what kernel, does it have an x-server running, is netfilter in ther kernel activated, dies it have a normal bash or an other console or something with extremely less functions like android have? Sep 25 22:28:03 SpeedEvil :D Sep 25 22:28:15 it has X Sep 25 22:28:33 It has busybox sh Sep 25 22:28:42 N900: What wlan-chipset? what bluetoth chipset? Sep 25 22:28:57 bash is in the Extras repo for Maemo4 I imagine someone might package it for maemo5 too Sep 25 22:29:14 (but you're still stuck with the busybox tools of most things probably) Sep 25 22:29:26 i own an android but realy look into the maemo development Sep 25 22:29:33 I just read on talk.maemo someone saying it's a broadcom bluetooth chip Sep 25 22:29:52 [23:21] hope that's fixed in RX-71 ;-) Sep 25 22:29:53 lol Sep 25 22:29:55 as i read that root is default available without any tweeks and so on i was realy surprised Sep 25 22:29:59 already talking next models! Sep 25 22:30:05 impatient lot! Sep 25 22:30:08 ;-D Sep 25 22:30:12 Lubomir, "sudo gainroot" :-) Sep 25 22:30:19 in x-terminal Sep 25 22:30:38 yea, thats what i talk about :) Sep 25 22:30:56 are the sources and everything else available from the beginning? Sep 25 22:31:07 * GeneralAntilles can't be bothered to catch up on the Talk spam. Sep 25 22:31:10 btw - does the os have closed source parts? Sep 25 22:31:16 Yes it has closed source parts Sep 25 22:31:17 GA haha Sep 25 22:31:27 ;-} Sep 25 22:31:48 ShadowJK and that are? drivers only or also something other? Sep 25 22:33:01 * ShadowJK searches for the wiki article... Sep 25 22:33:07 would nokia make that like that, that i always have to buy a new mobile phone to get actual version of maemo? Sep 25 22:33:27 how was that with the old devices Sep 25 22:33:45 mobile phone in old devices works exactly as advertised Sep 25 22:33:54 http://wiki.maemo.org/Why_the_closed_packages Sep 25 22:34:04 i read in wikipedia that for example maemo 3 and 4 was not available for nokia 770 Sep 25 22:34:24 i dont blame it Sep 25 22:34:34 They became available later as "Hacker Edition" Sep 25 22:34:50 Though the 770 didn't really have the RAM to run them painlessly Sep 25 22:35:04 and the N800/N810 doesn't have the power to run Maemo5 painlessly.. Sep 25 22:35:29 ShadowJK and why dont just enable swap on fast SD card? Sep 25 22:35:46 it did that Sep 25 22:35:54 but SD cards are only ever fast if you write sequentially to them Sep 25 22:36:04 Random access writes are extremely slow on SD Sep 25 22:36:14 so that make maemo 4 runnable on 770? Sep 25 22:36:57 hey, realy nice - it have an linux flasher Sep 25 22:37:04 heh, yeah Sep 25 22:37:04 to flash a phone with linux Sep 25 22:37:22 there is nothing that can do that for android Sep 25 22:37:49 like i said, the phone part works as advertised. they advertised the internet tablets explicitely as not phones. they di not have cellular parts. please stop talking about 770 as a phone ;) Sep 25 22:37:59 It's more like a linux computer in your pocket, with extra phone feature Sep 25 22:38:01 * lcuk2 rants like GA does about capital letters Sep 25 22:38:22 and something realy interesting for me: can i use git/svn, copy it, compile and then just put it on my phone and use it (and maybe report bugs)? Sep 25 22:38:23 the n900 has a phone tho :) Sep 25 22:38:41 lcuk2, the 770 had mobile parts in it ?!! Sep 25 22:38:45 ;-O Sep 25 22:38:52 ohh and evening mate Sep 25 22:38:57 There's the Mer project, which is a community-built version of Maemo, using Fremantle (Maemo5) APIs and software. Sep 25 22:38:57 *no* Sep 25 22:39:00 lcuk2 i know what 770,800 and 810 are ^^ Sep 25 22:39:01 * lcuk2 compiles on his n900 every day Sep 25 22:39:02 lcuk2, k Sep 25 22:39:08 Without the Nokia theming and the CPU/GPU intensive eyecandy Sep 25 22:39:10 and before that, my n810 Sep 25 22:39:14 Available for a wide range of devices Sep 25 22:40:02 ShadowJK link? Sep 25 22:40:05 Lubomir, You can install openssh on your phone, (cross)compile something on your PC, scp/sftp the binary to your phone, open xterm on your phone and do ./helloworld Sep 25 22:40:20 ShadowJK, you can also ssh into your "phone" Sep 25 22:40:24 http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer Sep 25 22:40:28 Yes, you can do that too :) Sep 25 22:40:29 run apt-get install build-essential Sep 25 22:40:31 how mnay packages are in mer ? Sep 25 22:40:41 and is there a repo I could look at ? Sep 25 22:40:48 Yeah, crazy people like lcuk2 install compiler on the device :) Sep 25 22:40:49 ShadowJK that thats possible i just know. i want to compile the os from source and put it on the phone Sep 25 22:40:54 * ShadowJK admits he has gcc on his N810 too Sep 25 22:40:59 and update to actual svn/git when i like Sep 25 22:41:17 That'd only be sane with Mer Sep 25 22:41:22 which source distro do you want to build? Sep 25 22:41:42 Maemo has some closed components, and there's no build script afaik :) Sep 25 22:41:49 lcuk2 i thought just using maemo-5 ... Sep 25 22:41:52 I would expect some hours after n900 hitting the streets people reporting mer runnung Sep 25 22:42:12 lcuk2 but when you ask like that - i want to use gentoo ^^ Sep 25 22:42:28 you are not the first :) Sep 25 22:42:31 Oh you should talk to luke-jr... Sep 25 22:42:32 its possible i believe Sep 25 22:42:35 He runs Gentoo on his N810 Sep 25 22:42:50 lcuk2 what i am not first? Sep 25 22:42:52 you miss out on the full driver stack Sep 25 22:42:59 but the system is usable Sep 25 22:43:04 WOW Sep 25 22:43:06 so i hear Sep 25 22:43:18 does someine here want to buy an android? :D Sep 25 22:43:26 Nobody has tried gentoo on n900 though :) Sep 25 22:43:27 evil robot Sep 25 22:43:36 we should have a Pushn900 robot war Sep 25 22:43:40 And we don't know how to, or if the phone stack can be hacked into gentoo :) Sep 25 22:43:48 Samsung galaxy, AM-OLED, 7,2hsdpa, 5,76 hsupa Sep 25 22:43:51 we have pusher robots which protect us from the terrible secret of space Sep 25 22:44:08 Lubomir, why not put gentoo on that? Sep 25 22:44:16 isnt android open? Sep 25 22:44:23 i tohught it was a linux Sep 25 22:44:28 I think the devices are tivoized so that you can't replace the kernel and stuff Sep 25 22:44:30 lcuk2 because i have to build nearly a whole own system... Sep 25 22:44:37 you do here Sep 25 22:44:40 same issue Sep 25 22:44:42 just build it Sep 25 22:44:54 lcuk2 android have no X and so on Sep 25 22:44:58 havent you just been talking about doin gentoo Sep 25 22:45:04 and there is no change to start from down... Sep 25 22:45:06 Gentoo is maybe not LFS :) Sep 25 22:45:32 lcuk2 yea, but on android i didnt have the chance to do that. i cant start... Sep 25 22:45:48 ahh, sounds restrictive Sep 25 22:45:52 :) Sep 25 22:46:03 i start using linux with gentoo. never used something else. Sep 25 22:46:11 maemo might not be perfect, but you have choice Sep 25 22:46:19 There are no installers for distributions on ARM, so you'll have the same issue on almost every device. You need to prepare/bootstrap a distro somehow :) Sep 25 22:46:55 ShadowJK is it possibe to just run a distro OVER maemo? Sep 25 22:47:01 ShadowJK, technically tho its easier because there are already a known working path Sep 25 22:47:14 like debian is on android Sep 25 22:47:18 Lubomir, people run various random stuff in chroot Sep 25 22:47:20 how difficult depends on the documentation left by those intrepid explorers Sep 25 22:47:29 lcuk2, yeah :) Sep 25 22:48:46 but when there are realy gentoo user for n810 i think/hope that there would be also a start of it on N900 Sep 25 22:48:58 fine Sep 25 22:49:05 Lubomir, I think I'd describe it all as: you get root access, and the freedom to flash whatever kernel and root filesystem you want onto the device. The not-closed parts of maemo are available, but they're that, parts. You get to put them together yourself. Same for debian/gentoo/ubuntu/etc :) Sep 25 22:49:19 finally win2003 accepted the vitio driver Sep 25 22:49:29 Mer takes the Maemo parts and puts them ontop of Ubuntu Sep 25 22:49:50 argh, ubuntu... Sep 25 22:50:34 could be worse Sep 25 22:50:37 had/have to use it because of some development together with some other people of some parts on the world... Sep 25 22:50:47 there are people trying to put maemo ontop of windows compact :P Sep 25 22:50:54 Does everything have opensource drivers? Sep 25 22:50:58 10minutes later - networkmanager was half broken -.- Sep 25 22:50:58 It'd probably be sane to waitfor/make dualboot option for N900 so you can experiment with alternative OSen on a microsdhc card and have the stock OS still installed :) Sep 25 22:51:04 hello there Sep 25 22:51:11 I mean - will battery life suck badly forex, or GPS not be there. Sep 25 22:51:16 pupnik: Hey Pupnik? Sep 25 22:51:18 yes ShadowJK it would Sep 25 22:51:34 what Sep 25 22:51:50 Lubomir, maemo doesn't have NetworkManager.. Nokia wrote their own closed-source replacement. It rocks. Sep 25 22:51:53 nice to see you again Neostrider :) Sep 25 22:52:01 ShadowJK does the bootloader allow booting from sd? Sep 25 22:52:02 I tell you the same Sep 25 22:52:07 just sent you a email Sep 25 22:52:09 hey everyone Sep 25 22:52:27 Lubomir: are you the same Lubomyr from the EZX community? Sep 25 22:52:46 i'm new to the channel, but will be a consistent presence for here on out. I'm one of the guys on QA for Fennec and want to make sure we get the latest info about any possible bugs! Sep 25 22:52:50 pupnik: the email just bounced back Sep 25 22:52:52 i dont know what EZX is so i thing the answer is no Sep 25 22:52:53 so please feel free to ping me at any time Sep 25 22:53:11 quite a coincidence...EZX is another embedded linux flavor Sep 25 22:53:33 aakashd, welcome to the crowd Sep 25 22:53:40 thanks lcuk2 Sep 25 22:53:45 you see, there are 304 other people over there listening out for bugs Sep 25 22:53:52 welcome o/ Sep 25 22:53:55 :D Sep 25 22:54:00 Lubomir, on N8x0 it wasnt that smart. It booted a kernel and the kernel mounted an initfs. That supermini-distro then started up some important services (such as battery stuff), and launched the main os. The community added dualboot option into the initfs, so that you could pick what to mount as root filesystem. Atleast that's how I understoof it Sep 25 22:54:08 so if you find any in things you are playing with Sep 25 22:54:09 hey lcuk2, how are you doing! Sep 25 22:54:11 you shout too! Sep 25 22:54:19 will do Sep 25 22:54:24 hi Neostrider im doing sorta possibly better than i think i should be Sep 25 22:54:27 aakashd, welcome, do you have an asbestos suit? :-) Sep 25 22:54:36 ShadowJK ah,okay Sep 25 22:54:39 lol what's an asbestos suit ShadowJK ? Sep 25 22:54:48 aakashd, well it's flame-resistant Sep 25 22:54:52 something to stop your balls being fried Sep 25 22:55:05 Lubomir: important point: the N810 hardware is undocumented and the drivers closed. Sep 25 22:55:33 ShadowJK: ahhh, well I know Fennec is still pre1.0 Sep 25 22:55:36 luke-jr and then realy someone get gentoo running? Sep 25 22:55:47 ShadowJK: so any comments and/or bug filing is super appreciated Sep 25 22:56:39 aakashd, ah but you need flameproof suit for all the unhelpful whinging :-) Sep 25 22:56:43 ah, luke-jr you are the gentoo person (scrolled up and read again ^^ ) Sep 25 22:56:44 lol Sep 25 22:57:11 ShadowJK: don't worry, you should hear the stories from the Fennec developers on all the complaining I do to them on a daily basis Sep 25 22:57:42 what sort of complaining :O Sep 25 22:57:48 * lcuk2 gets ready with /ignore ;) Sep 25 22:57:53 lcuk2: :P Sep 25 22:58:17 all my complaining is backed up with blocker/critical bugs ;) Sep 25 22:58:24 Lubomir: yes, I am. BME is loaded before Gentoo currently. Sep 25 22:58:37 the fennec version in extras is kinda old, and only one I tried on device, N810, it was too ram heavy to really be usable :) Sep 25 22:58:38 Lubomir: and our gps5300driver ebuild requires the blob from Nokia Sep 25 22:59:14 ShadowJK: ah its much better today though Sep 25 22:59:16 luke-jr did you have gcc on the device? Sep 25 22:59:30 and can just run a normal "emerge something"? Sep 25 22:59:31 check it out: http://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/firefox/nightly/latest-mobile-1.9.2/ Sep 25 22:59:31 Lubomir: yes, it's a normal Gentoo install Sep 25 23:00:24 luke-jr can you change kernel and so on? Sep 25 23:00:26 aakashd, thats a big list Sep 25 23:00:33 and why arent you pushing the extras-devel? Sep 25 23:00:43 people commonly grab programs to test from there Sep 25 23:00:50 luke-jr to just use actual vanilla-sources Sep 25 23:00:51 Lubomir: not yet Sep 25 23:00:55 no mucking about with random devs from untrusted servers :) Sep 25 23:01:01 lcuk2: get the xulrunner.deb all the way at the bottom and fennec1.0b4.deb in the middle Sep 25 23:01:03 lcuk2, I think it was someone not mozilla who originally pushed it to extras(-devel) Sep 25 23:01:18 * lcuk2 cant get anything Sep 25 23:01:19 Lubomir: 2.6.31 or .32 *might* boot, but certainly far from usable Sep 25 23:01:29 i cant install from .deb with app manager i dont think Sep 25 23:01:35 lcuk2: you should be able to Sep 25 23:01:39 lcuk2: that's how I do it Sep 25 23:01:39 Which is maybe a bit unfortunate, because now people think that version is the last release Sep 25 23:01:39 why should i Sep 25 23:01:43 luke-jr can you use firefox, openoffice, and so on with swap enabled? Sep 25 23:01:44 i dont have a regular machine Sep 25 23:01:55 you have n810? Sep 25 23:01:58 yeah Sep 25 23:02:03 i'm using the n810 right now Sep 25 23:02:11 lovely machines :) Sep 25 23:02:23 Lubomir: not openoffice I'm sure, that requires GBs of RAM to build Sep 25 23:02:25 yep :) Sep 25 23:02:27 * lcuk2 isnt using one right now tho Sep 25 23:02:29 hm, 26.1M free on / :\ Sep 25 23:02:39 Lubomir: and I use KDE, so I couldn't care less for Firefox crap Sep 25 23:03:01 aakashd, have you got a build for maemo 5 - im not even sure if i could get your debs they would run Sep 25 23:03:07 luke-jr wow! kde 4.3.1 ? ^^ Sep 25 23:03:10 Lubomir: yes Sep 25 23:03:11 bbiab Sep 25 23:03:28 luke-jr wtf... i want now an N810... Sep 25 23:03:29 lcuk2: you have to download and save them to disk and then double-click on them. it should work that way Sep 25 23:03:39 lcuk2: if not, i can help guide you Sep 25 23:03:52 lcuk2: if that doesn't work, then I think we might start looking into filing a bug ;) Sep 25 23:04:19 a few months ago when I tried to find out about fennec, I failed to find any uptodate version available for download :) Sep 25 23:04:23 maybe it isn't googleable :/ Sep 25 23:04:28 it is Sep 25 23:04:38 the uptodate version is hte nightly builds Sep 25 23:04:42 on the download page i linked to Sep 25 23:04:47 well, ftp page Sep 25 23:04:57 the last major release you can create a catalog for Sep 25 23:05:02 I failed to find any nightly builds :) Sep 25 23:05:03 and wait for the next release Sep 25 23:05:16 ShadowJK: http://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/firefox/nightly/latest-mobile-1.9.2/ Sep 25 23:05:23 Lubomir: boo, I don't recommend it. Sep 25 23:05:24 its a big list Sep 25 23:05:29 Lubomir: note it's not really *usable* Sep 25 23:05:32 too little RAM Sep 25 23:05:40 bbiab again :p Sep 25 23:05:41 ShadowJK: but download and install the xulrunner.deb build at the bottom of the page Sep 25 23:05:46 luke-jr okay. please get an N900 Sep 25 23:05:47 :D Sep 25 23:06:00 and then download and install fennec_1.0b4pre_armel.deb Sep 25 23:06:07 from the same page ShadowJK Sep 25 23:06:13 47.1M free, let's hope that's enough :) Sep 25 23:06:20 totall is Sep 25 23:06:22 *totally is Sep 25 23:08:15 thanks @ all. i think we see us luke-jr ^^ Sep 25 23:08:18 bye Sep 25 23:08:56 i can only install .deb files from the command line or after entering "red-pill" mode. neither of which make it easy Sep 25 23:09:14 (He wants it in a repo) Sep 25 23:09:21 aakashd, to gain testers, please try to push to maemo.org Sep 25 23:09:25 i dont Sep 25 23:09:43 hm Sep 25 23:09:44 they are currently installing your old version Sep 25 23:09:52 But yeah, having it in extras-devel or something would get more visibility Sep 25 23:09:53 alright, will do Sep 25 23:10:03 do I have to file a bug for the website? Sep 25 23:10:08 or maybe contact someone? Sep 25 23:10:12 for what website? Sep 25 23:10:21 maemo.org Sep 25 23:10:28 no, just find out which maintainer pushed a version to extras-devel first time Sep 25 23:10:32 and bug them to update it ;) Sep 25 23:10:39 will do :) Sep 25 23:10:49 i want to try it :) Sep 25 23:10:51 the only problem is that we probably only push the releases (betas) out Sep 25 23:10:52 My terribly unreliable memory says it was qwerty12 Sep 25 23:10:54 but not the nightly builds page Sep 25 23:11:00 * ShadowJK pokes qwerty12_N810 Sep 25 23:11:08 extras-devel is suitable for this purpose Sep 25 23:11:20 extras-devel has fennec 1.0b1 Sep 25 23:11:21 link me ? Sep 25 23:11:22 even if its just once Sep 25 23:12:11 http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/diablo/free/f/fennec/ Sep 25 23:12:18 thats the version thats currently available Sep 25 23:12:29 wow yeeeeesh Sep 25 23:12:51 ok, so where would I file a bug? Sep 25 23:12:59 so update it if you feel you have new goodies to share :) Sep 25 23:13:02 I think I can set up a port from our nightly builds page to this page Sep 25 23:13:38 you gain upload rights to the auto builders by contacting maemo admins Sep 25 23:13:42 would you suggest any other places to contact to start building a community to gain users? Sep 25 23:13:46 I think someone just followed this and we ended up with a random fennec version there: http://wiki.maemo.org/Uploading_to_Extras Sep 25 23:13:49 but the easiest is to see who pushed this update Sep 25 23:14:06 hm ok Sep 25 23:16:08 How about... get a recent version into extras-devel, then announce it on talk.maemo.org asking for testing and comments/feedback, add the usual beta/alpha software disclaimer... Sep 25 23:17:22 i just spoke with our director of mobile about it Sep 25 23:17:29 he'll try to get it done, but its going to take some time Sep 25 23:17:49 the easiest thing for now to use the nightly builds page I linked to and/or wait for beta 4 to be released next week Sep 25 23:17:53 and then update the catalog Sep 25 23:17:58 mm Sep 25 23:18:00 * lcuk2 shrugs Sep 25 23:18:06 https://wiki.mozilla.org/Mobile/Fennec/Releases#Installing_Fennec_on_Nokia_N810 Sep 25 23:18:11 ^^^ Sep 25 23:18:17 like i said Sep 25 23:18:20 im not on an n810 Sep 25 23:18:31 i know, just fyi in general Sep 25 23:18:37 at least for the time being :( Sep 25 23:18:47 lcuk2: latest nightly will run on everything Sep 25 23:18:49 i'm going to keep on pushing on this end Sep 25 23:18:50 * lcuk2 nods Sep 25 23:18:55 thanks Pavlov Sep 25 23:19:04 jerimiah or x-fade pushed the last build Sep 25 23:19:08 from us directly Sep 25 23:19:12 we'll be pushing beta 4 there shortly Sep 25 23:19:22 * lcuk2 nods again Sep 25 23:19:23 (next week) Sep 25 23:19:31 * lcuk2 gets a stiff neck Sep 25 23:19:35 ah it was xfade Sep 25 23:20:07 and its almost certainly my fault newer builds haven't gotten pushed Sep 25 23:20:36 anyone tried fullscreen SDL apps on maemo5 hardware.... ahem * lcuk2 * Sep 25 23:20:50 no Sep 25 23:20:54 I thought I heard something about it being ultra slow Sep 25 23:21:00 dunno Sep 25 23:21:02 * ShadowJK tries fennec Sep 25 23:21:04 liqbase is super slick Sep 25 23:21:08 i dont care \o/ Sep 25 23:21:12 heh Sep 25 23:21:54 mind you, its superslick on n810 too Sep 25 23:21:55 * ShadowJK shuts up Sep 25 23:22:21 * Firebird needs to order the OGLES2.0 book but its $50 -_- Sep 25 23:23:22 yikes Sep 25 23:23:26 you should crowd source it Sep 25 23:23:30 each person buys a page Sep 25 23:23:32 or a chapter Sep 25 23:23:46 and there's no good online OGLES resource Sep 25 23:23:54 or goes looking in the book shop with n8x0 to read a small piece Sep 25 23:23:56 * lcuk2 whistles Sep 25 23:25:22 ShadowJK: theres a couple of big panning perf regressions from the last few days whichare what are holding up b4 Sep 25 23:26:41 * ShadowJK 's N810 doesn't have enough RAM for this :-) Sep 25 23:27:37 * lcuk2 gives ShadowJK a sheep Sep 25 23:28:11 i have to do some rendering functions tonight Sep 25 23:28:17 and im far too tired Sep 25 23:29:50 can someone watch this and tell me if i should watch it Sep 25 23:29:51 http://blogs.nokia.com/nseries/index.php/2009/09/25/onedotzero-installation-how-it-worked/ Sep 25 23:30:07 im a bit cringing cos i dont know which bit of the recordings its taken from Sep 25 23:33:46 how do I know if you should watch it or not Sep 25 23:34:40 i just did :$ Sep 25 23:35:06 too inquisitive Sep 25 23:35:31 * lcuk2 is glad he cut his hair now lol Sep 25 23:35:39 the ad banners on the right keep popping up ontop of the flash, the flash vanishes completely, then comes back ontop, and it repeats :$ Sep 25 23:35:53 ad banners? Sep 25 23:36:18 for N86 and OVI Sep 25 23:36:19 oh, interestign Sep 25 23:36:30 Maemo isn't Nokia-only anymore Sep 25 23:36:39 hm? Sep 25 23:36:41 Optima OP5-E apparently ships with it Sep 25 23:37:17 Wasn't that the maemo sdk plus some random hacked together shite? Sep 25 23:37:46 well the thing I read claimed they licensed it from Nokia Sep 25 23:38:12 argh that flash player is completely unusable Sep 25 23:38:16 * ShadowJK downloads it instead Sep 25 23:40:45 oh.... I was under the impression that the N900 was doing the 3d rendering and outputting... Sep 25 23:40:53 for onedotzero Sep 25 23:43:56 any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic Sep 25 23:44:31 - karsten schmidt quoting from acc Sep 25 23:48:12 coool Sep 25 23:48:15 it worked Sep 25 23:48:32 now I am really really happy Sep 25 23:54:39 lcuk2, any other onedotzero videos? :-) Sep 25 23:55:26 http://maemo.nokia.com/videos/ Sep 25 23:55:49 theres a few other bits as well Sep 25 23:55:58 i gave a presentation on liqbase whilst i was there Sep 25 23:56:06 and we were jamming in the greenroom Sep 25 23:56:18 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yk27PenpAz0 Sep 25 23:56:25 http://mynokiablog.com/2009/09/15/video-nokia-n900-presentation-with-gary-birkett-and-liqbase/ Sep 25 23:58:01 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2r8JJkDv7hw <- this one is disturbing, because it says it's shot with N900, and there are horribly ugly interlacing artifacts on it Sep 25 23:58:13 why the fck would it end up interlaced Sep 25 23:58:31 I hope it's just the person who shot the video that fucked it up afterwards, and not N900 butchering it :) Sep 25 23:59:17 where Sep 25 23:59:47 5 lines up Sep 26 00:00:08 ah well Sep 26 00:00:21 i have that video Sep 26 00:00:26 some is with device Sep 26 00:00:30 some was with a crappeh cam Sep 26 00:00:37 hm Sep 26 00:00:55 where in there are you seeing aliasing Sep 26 00:01:10 Err - video out = interlaced/ Sep 26 00:01:29 oh Sep 26 00:01:30 * lcuk2 is hearing more of his voice Sep 26 00:01:36 00:07 for example Sep 26 00:01:57 that looks like digital editing Sep 26 00:02:04 or i had a fit Sep 26 00:02:16 take your pick Sep 26 00:02:17 * SpeedEvil is hearing a jagged repeating loop of audio 0.4 seconds long Sep 26 00:02:25 * SpeedEvil has a broken sound system. Sep 26 00:02:36 lcuk2, even if you had a fit it wouldn't look like that Sep 26 00:02:46 It's two frames interleaved together Sep 26 00:03:01 even lines from one frame, odd lines from another frame... Sep 26 00:03:03 :/ Sep 26 00:03:03 put a marble on the stylus Sep 26 00:03:28 ShadowJK, thats probably mixing pieces together Sep 26 00:03:58 It did it over the entire sequence until a "scene cut" atleast Sep 26 00:04:13 I just hope the n900 doesn't really produce that video Sep 26 00:04:28 and that it was only the author that butchered it afterwards somehow Sep 26 00:05:11 i can see where he spliced bits together and thats the only time it does the interlacing that i can see Sep 26 00:05:19 theres another one right at the end to fade to black Sep 26 00:05:33 * lcuk2 thinks he did a good job at it actually Sep 26 00:07:02 oh it goes from view of projected screen to view of n900? Sep 26 00:07:21 So it was his software the added the fugly then :) Sep 26 00:08:11 I don't usually notice or mind tearing, but interlacing is like tearing on every second line :) Sep 26 00:08:20 hah Sep 26 00:08:31 * lcuk2 enjoyed time in london :) Sep 26 00:12:14 that liqflow video is awesome :) Sep 26 00:13:10 liqflow works on n810 too :) just without the accelerometer Sep 26 00:13:27 i should have a package out in time for the summit Sep 26 00:19:01 hm Sep 26 00:19:21 lcuk where do you live again? Sep 26 00:19:33 manchester england Sep 26 00:19:36 hm oh Sep 26 00:19:57 cambridge is to far Sep 26 00:20:06 for what Sep 26 00:20:07 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KxjVlaLBmk&NR=1 BEST ROBOT HAND EVER Sep 26 00:20:25 talking and drinking a beer Sep 26 00:20:28 after oedem Sep 26 00:21:25 are you coming to the summit Sep 26 00:21:36 no Sep 26 00:22:01 wow, nice find pupnik , incredibly fast Sep 26 00:22:58 we have spoken about this robot before i showed you the ball thing, the other features are new tho :O Sep 26 00:23:48 :( woglinde Sep 26 00:24:46 woglinde, where is the full oedem pages Sep 26 00:25:03 i get hrw's when i search (not a bad thing :)) Sep 26 00:25:09 http://wiki.openembedded.net/index.php/Oedem/2009 Sep 26 00:26:43 :D Sep 26 00:26:49 a typically english devcamp Sep 26 00:26:56 yeah hrw will be there too Sep 26 00:27:10 I am flying with him from berlin Sep 26 00:28:12 * lcuk2 nods, poke him and say hiya if we do not cross paths at the summit Sep 26 00:29:50 okay Sep 26 00:29:51 bed now Sep 26 00:29:54 good nite Sep 26 00:33:25 What did he say, 128x128 camera? :) Sep 26 00:43:52 robots need to be scary, and look like they'd be useless at anything except breaking your arm, like this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gO9th_Rfk2o Sep 26 00:45:52 ShadowJK, it dropped the drill Sep 26 00:45:59 you could kick it over Sep 26 00:46:06 :) Sep 26 00:47:17 I think it can get up Sep 26 00:48:39 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHuDvVa7mkw Sep 26 00:48:40 * lcuk2 runs Sep 26 00:49:49 clever! Sep 26 00:50:08 each does the best it can to sort and organise Sep 26 00:50:14 and doesnt actually worry if it misses Sep 26 00:50:18 the other gets em Sep 26 00:50:21 i like that! Sep 26 00:51:13 what am impressive system, thanks SpeedEvil Sep 26 00:51:46 What, you'd run after it? Sep 26 00:51:59 away from your scary one Sep 26 00:52:06 the picker one i want to implement Sep 26 00:52:23 anyway Sep 26 00:52:24 bedtime Sep 26 00:52:27 gnite chaps Sep 26 00:53:02 no I mean, you'd run after the sausage you missed? Sep 26 01:00:44 lcuk2, is the pic button in the menu in liqbase-playgroud supposed to close the program? Sep 26 02:50:22 Marvell 88F6192 chipset seems pretty open :o **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Sep 26 02:59:57 2009