**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Sep 30 02:59:57 2009 Sep 30 03:14:50 Heh, a "Sony mylo COM-2 Internet Device" looks lind of like the N810 Sep 30 03:15:20 Minus anything approaching an open platform. ;) Sep 30 03:15:26 looks fancier! Sep 30 03:15:33 actually it's also running a linux Sep 30 03:15:48 I start wondering how many different embedded linuxes there are Sep 30 03:15:51 lots Sep 30 03:15:56 some you can't even tell Sep 30 03:15:56 seems so :) Sep 30 03:16:09 I know a number of Sharp TVs run Linux Sep 30 03:16:16 but you can't tell Sep 30 03:17:28 Yeah, Linux doesn't mean anything as far as openness goes. Sep 30 03:19:40 hopefully there will be GPL offer in box. Sep 30 03:19:50 But even that doesn't help actually open them Sep 30 03:43:12 Tired: I thought about getting a Milo long ago, but it's slow and not very good, even if openness isn't a concern for you. Sep 30 03:43:42 it also only had 1GB internal space Sep 30 03:43:59 Expandable with memory card duo. Sep 30 03:44:06 Original had none. Sep 30 03:44:12 I just came upon it on amazon and thought "that looks familiar" Sep 30 03:45:13 NVidia releases their OpenCL drivers, open source: http://twit.ac/x_ud.html Sep 30 03:45:34 the mylo 2 hardware felt really nice. too bad it no one hacked it open and updated the kernel Sep 30 03:45:37 Oh.. might not be open source. Sep 30 03:45:38 would make a really nice maemo device Sep 30 03:45:52 It's really underpowered. Sep 30 03:46:41 is it? thought it had 128MB of RAM and a 400MHz ARM? Sep 30 03:48:12 The older one did anyways. Not sure about the newer one. Sep 30 03:48:43 the newer one seemed comparable to the N8x0 IIRC Sep 30 03:49:08 The COM-2 was one I thought about getting for a while... but eh... Sep 30 03:49:24 yeah, you made the right choice with maemo Sep 30 03:49:32 they still never got their own apps running last time I checked Sep 30 03:49:43 couldn't even get real read access to the whole file system Sep 30 03:50:07 No, everything was closed. I think they just got widgets running through it last I checked. Sep 30 03:50:49 ha! just hit the forums. as of 2009-09-21 the top post in the "hacks" forum is a question about when it'll be hacked with no repies Sep 30 03:52:43 really is eye-opening looking at their forums vs the maemo forums Sep 30 04:33:42 meh Sep 30 04:34:13 good morning Myrtti Sep 30 04:35:59 there's different opinions about how good it is ... Sep 30 04:39:14 Moo Myrtti Sep 30 05:00:12 mornin' Sep 30 05:15:10 uh... its running linux, and nobody even got in? Sep 30 05:15:20 That's kinda disgusting :) Sep 30 05:16:11 yeah, well, anyone who cared about openness got an N8x0 or a Zaurus in the first place Sep 30 05:16:38 Notably: Sony discontinued the Mylo2 while Nokia is running the N810 right up until the N900 is out Sep 30 05:18:41 Mornin' world Sep 30 05:18:48 he wazd Sep 30 05:18:50 how goes it? Sep 30 05:19:30 it *does* look more flashy, though Sep 30 05:19:56 10 points for looks, -1000 for usefulness :( Sep 30 05:20:01 johnx: heya, facing troubles with the internets) Sep 30 05:20:03 from what you guys said Sep 30 05:20:38 Moved to my grand dad's appartments, no sane internets there Sep 30 05:21:14 wazd, you'll have to settle for that insane internet that connects you to all those crazy #maemo guys Sep 30 05:21:37 Tired, yeah. I wish Sony would learn from things like this, but I kinda doubt they will Sep 30 05:22:09 johnx: yeah) I was away for like 3 days - everyone already panics :D Sep 30 05:22:31 did you get arrested? :P Sep 30 05:22:55 Stskeeps: Not yet) Sep 30 05:23:20 hm, opencl. Sep 30 05:23:31 guess companies feel scared by openness...possibly rightfully so, from their viewpoint Sep 30 05:23:36 is it just me who yawned and murmured "yeah and when will vdpau be stable, hm" Sep 30 05:24:12 Can anybody retell me what Eldar wanted from t.m.o?) Sep 30 05:24:48 wazd: vodka' Sep 30 05:24:48 Moo wazd Sep 30 05:24:49 ? Sep 30 05:24:56 wazd: Wanted appreciation Sep 30 05:25:13 RST38h: heya Sep 30 05:25:15 Tired, and those companies are getting left by the wayside. Companies should be scared about making their users happy, not trying to lock them into or out of their devices Sep 30 05:25:22 wazd: Probably some shreds of classified information too, as he seems to think it is all Nokia conspiracy Sep 30 05:25:34 RST38h: ah, poor guy :D Sep 30 05:25:46 RST38h, crap. he found out about the conspiracy? Sep 30 05:25:58 johnx, you mean companies like... apple with their i-somethings? Sep 30 05:26:33 johnx: Looks like he went insane before getting to the bottom Sep 30 05:26:35 RST38h: We need to tell him that top secret threads are hidden for everyone under 1000 posts)) Sep 30 05:26:48 wazd: ah, screw him Sep 30 05:27:03 wazd: he has got a new target now, the LJ nokia_ru community Sep 30 05:27:30 RST38h: oh my) Sep 30 05:28:37 johnx, they seem to be doing all right - and the iphone e.g is even runnin its own proprietary ipone-os... Sep 30 05:29:01 I'm still on my quest «get that freaking travelling passport legaly» :) Sep 30 05:29:08 Tired, nah, they're selling "just works" to people who want "just works." Sony tried selling "just works" to a market segment that was more interested in an open system Sep 30 05:30:12 Myst looks like 3yo boy near this quest) Sep 30 05:30:14 johnx, nothing wrong with things that "just work" from start on, though :) Sep 30 05:31:35 Stskeeps: have you made some presentations for summit?) Sep 30 05:32:40 Tired, well, if both systems just work, and one offers a wealth of 3rd party apps and one doesn't, it changes the picture Sep 30 05:34:24 true Sep 30 05:34:43 but if the open one "barely works" that's a totaly different picture Sep 30 05:35:23 right, hence why the mylo probably sold more than the openmoko Sep 30 05:35:31 hehe Sep 30 05:35:41 (no offence to openmoko guys. they really tried, and I respect that.) Sep 30 05:35:55 past-tense? Sep 30 05:36:00 did that die? Sep 30 05:36:02 johnx: like, mylo - 3, openmoko - 2?)) Sep 30 05:36:30 wazd, mylo probably sold better in japan, where it wasn't up against the n810 Sep 30 05:37:04 but I doubt the mylo was much competition for the zaurus there, even after sharp discontinued it. heh. Sep 30 05:37:45 wazd: on my list for this week Sep 30 05:38:00 it the N810 still produced? It's price on amayon has been $500 for over aweek now Sep 30 05:38:44 nice to see the price go up since you bought something, though Sep 30 05:38:58 Stskeeps: great, I'll try to solve internet problems asap Sep 30 05:39:28 wazd: haven't really written anything yet but it's mostly in my head :) Sep 30 05:44:14 has anyone complained that the easy chem ham icon is nearly invisible? Sep 30 05:44:47 stskeeps: well, in worst case you can just retell danish presentation) Sep 30 05:45:31 fwiw, one doesn't "tell" a "presentatio" ;) Sep 30 05:48:07 wazd: nah.. i have two presentations :P Sep 30 05:48:16 timeless: how's vacation so far? Sep 30 05:49:07 pretty good, i'm in bratislava, contemplating brno or wandering around here for a bit longer Sep 30 05:50:14 wazd: saw my fremantle-on-N8x0 video? :) Sep 30 05:53:09 have i? url? Sep 30 05:53:21 http://blip.tv/file/2659691 blurrycam Sep 30 05:53:39 new hildon-desktop with SW rendering, actually works decently Sep 30 05:54:54 some more knob turning and it would probably be usable Sep 30 05:54:54 is the flickering at the top just weird lcd<->camera interaction or? Sep 30 05:55:03 microlith: no, a broken n8x0 screen Sep 30 05:55:10 ah :/ Sep 30 05:55:52 i couldn't find a minisd for my n810 to try it so Sep 30 05:57:25 huh. well that was short-lived. the verizon hub is already discontinued Sep 30 05:57:50 also of note: another linux-based non-open platform Sep 30 05:58:02 mm? Sep 30 05:58:16 this: http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/29/verizon-bubs-flub-hawk-their-last-hub/ Sep 30 05:59:58 it was based on a non-open linux-based platform. Sep 30 06:00:47 i wouldn't mind seeing something like Mer on those always-connected-on-AC devices Sep 30 06:00:49 like the joggler etc Sep 30 06:01:55 yeah. I think that might be kind of a cool fit. not sure about the mass market appeal until the price is a lot lower though Sep 30 06:02:03 and I'm not sure it needs a phone tied onto it Sep 30 06:02:24 yeah, the joggler doesn't Sep 30 06:02:32 touchscreen, ethernet, wifi, dc, that's it :P Sep 30 06:02:48 ...in fact, I kind feel like it might have gotten marginalized by being marketed as a phone, rather than a "really cool digital picture frame" Sep 30 06:02:54 that seems to be a market that's doing just fine Sep 30 06:03:23 The OS can work both with a hardware keyboard (isn't available in the N920) and on-screen thumbboard. Sep 30 06:03:32 bwaha, they are quite positive about that, Sep 30 06:03:39 as if it was already announced Sep 30 06:04:01 Corsac: url? Sep 30 06:04:16 Corsac, just FYI, there's already an open sourced fullscreen keyboard that works with Maemo5's hildon-input-method Sep 30 06:04:21 it's on the bugs page Sep 30 06:04:34 http://www.mobile-review.com/review/nokia-maemo5-en.shtml#2 / Text input Sep 30 06:04:46 johnx: yeah, but that wasn't my point Sep 30 06:05:02 oh, about the N920 Sep 30 06:05:11 lack of hardware keyboard is a good way to reduce size and weight, for “full touch” people Sep 30 06:05:26 but all we have atm is rumors Sep 30 06:05:30 (afaik) Sep 30 06:05:47 rumors and a mention of the RX71 Sep 30 06:05:57 which we think has a much more limited number of keys than the RX51 Sep 30 06:08:02 it wouldn't be wise to announce an n920 before n900 has started shipping, though Sep 30 06:08:33 can't hurt so long as they say "no hardware keyboard" when doing so Sep 30 06:08:34 yeah, called "pulling an osbourne" Sep 30 06:10:11 microlith: except that people willing to buy the n900 might wait few months for the n920 :) Sep 30 06:10:31 only if they're willing to forego the hardware keyboard Sep 30 06:10:48 and that's a major thing that made me go for the N900 Sep 30 06:11:22 now if the N920 and N900 both had keyboards, with one just a spec bump, then there'd be trouble Sep 30 06:13:11 I might be interested by a non-keyboard version but I'm not really willing to wait some months more :) Sep 30 06:13:25 hehe Sep 30 06:14:23 * johnx is done with devices that lack a hardware keyboard Sep 30 06:14:48 no hw keyboard is what kept me from going iPhone Sep 30 06:14:52 I love my N800 but it's no fun trying to IRC from it or use the terminal (without a usb/bt keyboard) Sep 30 06:15:41 yeah Sep 30 06:17:15 hey, about http://www.mobile-review.com/review/nokia-maemo5-en.shtml Sep 30 06:17:37 they make some comment about untranslated stuff, anyone know what they're talking about? Sep 30 06:18:21 timeless: probably a pre-release version Sep 30 06:19:27 none of their pictures seem to show that... Sep 30 06:19:44 seems like unsubstantiated bs Sep 30 06:21:43 i'm not saying localization was done or was great, just that the article sucks Sep 30 06:25:08 * timeless gru bles Sep 30 06:25:31 * timeless hadn't seen a certain string before Sep 30 06:26:03 maybe the reviewer expected “Bluetooth” to be translated ;p Sep 30 06:26:26 that's my guess Sep 30 06:26:33 or Exchange Sep 30 06:27:24 both of those are NOT supposed to be translated Sep 30 06:28:46 * timeless frowns Sep 30 06:29:08 anyone here familiar w/ SMS in phones? Sep 30 06:30:05 * timeless still likes how the finns screwed up first/second person in chat Sep 30 06:32:55 he's also dead wrong on one point Sep 30 06:33:08 * timeless needs to find the packaging list Sep 30 06:33:43 timeless: he's also claiming to have created a list of all maemo nokians along with claiming wazd is a nokia employee.. so always good :P Sep 30 06:35:58 Stskeeps: and pizza Sep 30 06:36:12 what? :P Sep 30 06:36:21 damnit, don't make me hungry this early Sep 30 06:36:55 * timeless sighs Sep 30 06:38:29 the sad thing is that i can see 5 to 10 bugs just from his screen shots Sep 30 06:38:29 most probably aren't filed Sep 30 06:40:20 btw, what's "gallery"? Sep 30 06:43:21 Stskeeps: I find it amusing to randomly interject 'pizza'. Sep 30 06:43:33 therefore, pizza is now a nokia employee Sep 30 06:44:40 heh Sep 30 06:44:45 * timeless sighs Sep 30 06:45:12 i love how he compares microb w/ other apps running against an iphone w/ other apps running Sep 30 06:45:13 timeless: don't like your new co-worker?! Sep 30 06:45:31 - truth be told, that doesn't happen Sep 30 06:45:44 what? Sep 30 06:45:46 luke? is he pareve? Sep 30 06:45:50 you don't think people use multiple apps? Sep 30 06:45:54 timeless: pizza? Sep 30 06:46:32 luke-jr: well not on the iphone since it doesn't really do multitasking Sep 30 06:46:43 i.e. it's an unfair comparison Sep 30 06:46:58 o Sep 30 06:47:03 iPhone ftl Sep 30 06:47:07 yep, indeed Sep 30 06:47:12 > For comparison, on the Apple iPhone the browser's speed doesn't vary, no matter how many applications are running (although, the truth be told, it doesn't have true multitasking functionality). Sep 30 06:48:14 .. the iphone doesn't have fake multitasking either.. Sep 30 06:49:09 ooo qgil ♥ Sep 30 06:49:25 oh brother Sep 30 06:49:43 he thinks that back operates on currently open pages Sep 30 06:49:59 would someone *please* flame this guy? Sep 30 06:50:06 or his translator Sep 30 06:50:17 timeless: btw, know of any complete low-level list of non-free components on N900? Sep 30 06:50:31 EXCITING! Sep 30 06:51:38 i don't know of any price lists Sep 30 06:51:55 oh gah, i can't read Sep 30 06:52:12 no, i don't know anything about hardware Sep 30 06:52:25 timeless: I was referring to software... Sep 30 06:52:27 but typically you have to buy each piece of hardware Sep 30 06:52:56 and I mean free, not gratis.. Sep 30 06:53:12 "nokia-closed" Sep 30 06:53:24 is the right string fwiw Sep 30 06:53:30 totally unambiguous Sep 30 06:53:44 closed is the opposite of open Sep 30 06:53:51 and open is not necessarily free Sep 30 06:53:54 is he going to announce that they've got a partner for hardware? this is building to something Sep 30 06:54:01 hmm? Sep 30 06:54:02 the question is if there is a list :p Sep 30 06:54:15 Myrtti: what's going on? :P Sep 30 06:54:28 my battery has drained out. I connected the power supply to the power socket and then to the n810 though nothing happens (it isn't charging). did this happen to anyone before? Sep 30 06:54:29 there's a list of packages that are currently listed as closed Sep 30 06:54:39 Stskeeps: listening to the openmind keynote http://openmind.fi Sep 30 06:54:50 timeless: something I can see? Sep 30 06:55:05 i think quim posted something Sep 30 06:55:28 the info i have is from memory, out of date and was hopefully going to change Sep 30 06:55:28 oh. Sep 30 06:56:11 timeless: regarding closed packages you mean Sep 30 06:56:32 but my list wouldn't differentiate between low and high level packages Sep 30 06:56:50 luke-jr: there's a spreadsheet laying about if you look hard enough Sep 30 07:01:08 wohoo Sep 30 07:01:20 overhead projector with N900 Sep 30 07:01:23 hehe Sep 30 07:01:27 . Sep 30 07:01:29 what's being reported though? :P Sep 30 07:01:31 ? Sep 30 07:01:52 "---"? Sep 30 07:01:53 apparently the "new" thing is maemo 5 final sdk Sep 30 07:01:57 ah Sep 30 07:01:59 any date on that? Sep 30 07:02:03 if I understood correctly Sep 30 07:02:12 ask sp3000 Sep 30 07:02:39 i'm too lazy to fish for it Sep 30 07:03:03 and too tired to type into the right window :( Sep 30 07:04:17 mm final sdk, then we can poke around in messaging *dreams about MMS* Sep 30 07:05:26 god that looks slick Sep 30 07:05:31 Hi ! Sep 30 07:05:43 morning Khertan_ Sep 30 07:06:08 Does there is a git expert here ? i'm trying to use it on my nit ... but unsuccessfull ... Sep 30 07:06:32 seems the version on Diablo didn't support push on https Sep 30 07:07:04 Morning Stskeeps Sep 30 07:10:59 Text Input. The OS can work both with a hardware keyboard (isn't available in the N920) and on-screen thumbboard. Sep 30 07:11:01 wait what Sep 30 07:11:02 n920? Sep 30 07:11:18 bullshit Sep 30 07:11:26 that's the least of his stupid bits Sep 30 07:12:11 at least people can understand tha it's wrong/irrelevant Sep 30 07:12:12 what are the bigger ones Sep 30 07:12:19 where too ? Sep 30 07:12:33 lemme check the maemo site first Sep 30 07:12:43 s/N920/RX71/ ? Sep 30 07:13:00 it's not official until the fat lady sings Sep 30 07:13:40 but you can make bets at any point you want :) Sep 30 07:14:00 Hii- I have a question about setting up SSH on my nokia n810 Sep 30 07:14:29 he indicates we include the ability to open office documents Sep 30 07:14:33 evadne, hi. :) Sep 30 07:14:56 I followed this guide: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=23932&highlight=ssh+password and I am unable to login with the password I set up Sep 30 07:14:57 check his screen shots and you can see it's trialware Sep 30 07:15:08 hi :) Sep 30 07:15:10 "set work again on the rx71" ... <<< héhé Sep 30 07:15:23 i'm not sure how he missed the incredibly long dialogs that explaihed that Sep 30 07:15:25 I Like the comment on scm Sep 30 07:15:52 s/hed/ned/ Sep 30 07:15:53 timeless meant: i'm not sure how he missed the incredibly long dialogs that explained that Sep 30 07:16:58 'sudo ./flasher-3.0 --enable-rd-mode -R' => incorrect password Sep 30 07:18:11 evadne, that's your user password on your desktop Sep 30 07:18:34 evadne, and hang on for a sec before you do that Sep 30 07:18:45 that's a pretty strange thing to be doing Sep 30 07:19:18 anyone else having trouble connecting to talk.maemo.org? Sep 30 07:19:44 talk.maemo seems to be down every now and then Sep 30 07:20:09 * timeless cries Sep 30 07:20:22 'sudo gainroot' => enable RD mode to gain root privileges Sep 30 07:20:33 sp3000: is notes's font picker really that stupid? Sep 30 07:21:12 johnx: can't connect too Sep 30 07:21:17 johnx: timeout Sep 30 07:21:18 bing has a more recent cache than google's, if talk.maemo is down Sep 30 07:21:39 evadne, ok, the short version is: don't use that howto Sep 30 07:21:45 have you enabled extras? Sep 30 07:22:47 where and how? :( sorry im a n00b at this stuff Sep 30 07:23:38 evadne, no worries: http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras Sep 30 07:24:02 uhm, it sounds like that howto is outdated if it's still talking about something like using flasher to get root access just to install ssh Sep 30 07:25:20 okie, extras are enabled Sep 30 07:25:22 Khertan_, !!! Sep 30 07:25:54 evadne, browser for openssh-server in the applications list and install it Sep 30 07:26:07 it'll make you set a root password as part of the install process Sep 30 07:26:42 Khertan_, pygtkeditor 2.4.3-1 is broken Sep 30 07:26:52 2.4.3-1 yes it is Sep 30 07:26:52 its not there - is it because i already installed it? Sep 30 07:26:54 Khertan_, error on any file open Sep 30 07:26:59 this is why i ve push 2.4.4 Sep 30 07:27:08 oh, didn't see it yet Sep 30 07:27:14 reMoo Sep 30 07:27:15 thats how i set the root password, which WinSCP says its incorrect Sep 30 07:27:32 evadne, check in your installed list Sep 30 07:27:50 pygtkeditor_2.4.4-1_armel.deb 28.09.2009 17:01 20824 pygtkeditor_2.4.4-1_i386.deb 28.09.2009 17:01 20820 Sep 30 07:28:04 this is in extras Sep 30 07:28:09 yes, its there: openssh -client -sever Sep 30 07:28:15 -server* Sep 30 07:28:16 2.4.3 was push in extras-devel only :) Sep 30 07:28:19 all 3 of them i mean* Sep 30 07:28:31 evadne, alright. open up a terminal on the n810 itself and type: Sep 30 07:28:40 ssh root@localhost Sep 30 07:28:43 i test before pushing my apps to extras :) Sep 30 07:28:45 then type the password you setup Sep 30 07:29:07 don't forget to reboot after installing ssh-server Sep 30 07:29:45 went through Sep 30 07:30:08 password worked on n810 Sep 30 07:30:29 evadne, on your windows box, what are you typing for "username"? Sep 30 07:30:32 timeless, why? Sep 30 07:30:46 johnx: does not auto start Sep 30 07:30:52 news to me Sep 30 07:30:59 the ssh package i get doesn't start sshd automatically post.inst Sep 30 07:31:05 is that a recent change? Sep 30 07:31:20 =most annoying thing Sep 30 07:31:36 nope, been that way for ages Sep 30 07:31:38 username=what i set up, so it's 'sana', and the pass is the same Sep 30 07:32:13 evadne is this mer or maemo Sep 30 07:32:15 evadne, there are two users on your N810: "user" and "root" Sep 30 07:32:20 timeless, it's maemo Sep 30 07:32:44 unless...wait...did you actually install mer evadne? Sep 30 07:32:49 as johnx says... you set the password for user "root" Sep 30 07:33:13 timeless, im using maemo Sep 30 07:33:39 1 sec Sep 30 07:33:46 johnx: just doing due dilligence and ruling it out :) Sep 30 07:34:32 timeless, good thinking, it just seemed too much like maemo, though I guess that .install for extras might work just fine in mer these days ... Sep 30 07:35:00 i tried root, it says access denied Sep 30 07:35:54 evadne, do you have an ssh client on your PC (like putty)? Sep 30 07:36:37 im using winscp, but i can install putty Sep 30 07:36:50 re you sure you have the right ip address/network? :) Sep 30 07:38:36 installed,running putty, asks for my password => incorrect again Sep 30 07:39:26 with user "root"? Sep 30 07:40:39 yayyyy Sep 30 07:40:43 i'm in! Sep 30 07:40:56 Thank you johnx and timeless :) Sep 30 07:41:32 evadne, ok. now for the second part Sep 30 07:42:08 yes Sep 30 07:42:22 in the terminal on the device itself (as "user," not "root) Sep 30 07:42:26 type: passwd Sep 30 07:42:33 err. actually forget that Sep 30 07:42:40 as root type: passwd user Sep 30 07:43:17 new password = anything i would like? Sep 30 07:43:20 yup Sep 30 07:43:43 after that you'll be able to login as "user" from ssh/scp and you don't have to worry about messing up system files or weird permissions Sep 30 07:44:09 okay! sounds good :) Sep 30 07:44:17 will i need to reboot either machines now? Sep 30 07:44:35 nope Sep 30 07:44:36 timeless: font picker wha? Sep 30 07:44:52 thanks again :) Sep 30 07:44:56 night Sep 30 07:44:58 sure. enjoy Sep 30 07:46:45 ssh should get started after it's installed Sep 30 07:47:00 must be some typo in the postinst I'm not seeing Sep 30 08:14:25 Morning, all Sep 30 08:16:11 morn jaffa Sep 30 08:56:26 starting to get cold Sep 30 08:57:28 yeah Sep 30 08:58:03 and I am most displeased with it's effect on my commute Sep 30 09:02:12 heh Sep 30 09:02:20 driving? Sep 30 09:02:29 or taking a train? Sep 30 09:02:42 it is just a little colder out now Sep 30 09:03:22 I'm in the Seattle area and still people start driving with their asses as soon as it starts raining Sep 30 09:03:39 in seattle? Sep 30 09:03:43 yeah Sep 30 09:03:52 i figured people there were used to rain and snow Sep 30 09:04:01 30 minute commute becomes 1hr+ Sep 30 09:04:08 i know in texas if it snows the entire state shuts down Sep 30 09:04:11 haha Sep 30 09:04:20 johnx so better no snow Sep 30 09:04:21 like it is the end of days Sep 30 09:04:23 macer *g* Sep 30 09:04:53 in chicago rain and snow is normal Sep 30 09:05:00 people hardly slow down Sep 30 09:05:47 can't wait to get this touchbook Sep 30 09:05:50 :) Sep 30 09:05:56 i'm excited Sep 30 09:05:57 woglinde, nah, then people drive their cars into ditches and I pass them :) Sep 30 09:06:04 last news from expansys, oct 22! Sep 30 09:06:08 that's exactly as I said Sep 30 09:06:16 oct 22 on the morning, oct 29 on the evening Sep 30 09:06:17 expansys? Sep 30 09:06:36 http://www.expansys.fr/d.aspx?i=187231 Sep 30 09:07:19 macer when will it arrive? Sep 30 09:08:57 woglinde, they said soon after processing the payment Sep 30 09:09:06 which was done yesterday Sep 30 09:09:10 *g* Sep 30 09:09:18 so hopefully by monday at the latest Sep 30 09:09:27 waiting on a tracking number now Sep 30 09:09:44 yes Sep 30 09:09:50 iegpv are in stock Sep 30 09:09:51 s Sep 30 09:10:01 args igep Sep 30 09:10:02 hm Sep 30 09:10:08 Corsac, media tablet? Sep 30 09:10:11 heh Sep 30 09:10:14 but now I can get an beagle Sep 30 09:10:17 for free Sep 30 09:10:24 well Sep 30 09:10:33 http://www.igep-platform.com/shop/ Sep 30 09:10:34 tb is a beagleboard laptop ;) Sep 30 09:11:12 macer I know touchbook for nearly a year now Sep 30 09:11:23 or 8 months Sep 30 09:11:25 or so Sep 30 09:11:28 heh Sep 30 09:11:43 well, they have been shipping since july Sep 30 09:11:46 er. aug Sep 30 09:11:53 but you will need a sis-usb for beamers Sep 30 09:12:07 sis-usb? Sep 30 09:12:18 yeah no external vga connector Sep 30 09:12:18 vga-from-usb(i think in this case) Sep 30 09:12:26 oh Sep 30 09:12:31 heh Sep 30 09:12:38 did you overlook this? Sep 30 09:12:41 i will probably never need that Sep 30 09:12:51 hm oh okay Sep 30 09:12:57 i don't hook my laptops to a monitor Sep 30 09:12:58 so you never give talks Sep 30 09:13:03 ;) Sep 30 09:13:06 Quim presenting live from the N900 on beamers: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYTSFTdF-u8 Sep 30 09:13:16 hi Sep 30 09:13:23 x-fade how connected? Sep 30 09:13:28 tv-out Sep 30 09:13:33 *g* Sep 30 09:13:40 oh it has tv-out Sep 30 09:13:46 like n95 Sep 30 09:13:47 never looked at this spec Sep 30 09:13:48 heh Sep 30 09:14:26 sorry this is probably a very stupid question, im just starting with maemo and a bit confused. I want do some qt dev, i have to install the qt dev packages on both targets? I added the repos in /etc/sources.list and installed qt packages on X86 target. Works as expected. I tried doing the same on ARM target and i get "/scratchbox/tools/bin/misc_runner: SBOX_CPUTRANSPARENCY_METHOD not set Sep 30 09:14:32 when running atp-get Sep 30 09:14:46 ensi yes Sep 30 09:14:49 know problem Sep 30 09:14:57 look at the qt4 garage side for fix Sep 30 09:14:57 woglinde: whats the solution? :) Sep 30 09:15:20 just setting SBOX_CPUTRANSPARENCY_METHOD Sep 30 09:15:33 X-Fade, you are aware - now we have such a kickass presentation platform - we will need something new and even more advanced - wireless tv out :P Sep 30 09:15:43 sorry im very new to this, i tried googling for that but I havent quite figured out how to work it yet... Sep 30 09:15:44 lcuk haha Sep 30 09:15:46 being stuck to a wire during a presentation is hard :D Sep 30 09:15:54 * lcuk knows Sep 30 09:15:59 lcuk only few beamers have wifi Sep 30 09:16:02 :D Sep 30 09:28:09 hm is qemu working on 32bit chroot on 64bit system? Sep 30 09:36:01 morning Sep 30 09:36:09 thready question for you all Sep 30 09:36:27 is it really not allowed to alter some gtk+ GUI components from a thread? Sep 30 09:38:03 I guess I could add a g_timeout_add_seconds callback from the main code, and poll some flag to see if my thread has finished Sep 30 09:38:10 is that the recommended route? Sep 30 09:38:16 Generally, manipulating highly stateful objects (like GUI widgets) from multiple threads is a bad, bad idea. Sep 30 09:38:44 In fact, keeping all UI in a single thread is a good, good idea Sep 30 09:39:07 (IBM takes it to the next level moving all functionality into command line executables of course :)) Sep 30 09:39:18 yeah I understand that, just trying to think of a nice clean way to get my web scraper threads to provide info to be displayed on the gui Sep 30 09:39:33 :) Sep 30 09:40:00 lardman: array =) Sep 30 09:40:17 well yeah, it is char* data ;) Sep 30 09:40:21 lardman: may need to lock individual entries Sep 30 09:40:30 lardman: Array of char *s Sep 30 09:40:39 a global var then Sep 30 09:41:44 global variables have problems of read/modify/write cycle - use a mutex Sep 30 09:42:00 or find a method that doesnt involve mucking aobut like that Sep 30 09:42:09 that's the problem Sep 30 09:42:10 Glib has a number of useful facilities (e.g., g_async_queue). Sep 30 09:42:13 * lcuk nods Sep 30 09:42:18 i do know the problem lol Sep 30 09:42:24 lardman: You should be ok with a simple array of pointers Sep 30 09:42:37 lardman: Do not get more complicated than necessary Sep 30 09:42:46 derf, cool! Sep 30 09:43:05 lardman: add a simple lock to each entry, this will avoid your threads fromscrewing it up Sep 30 09:43:15 hm Sep 30 09:43:16 RST38h, but if the tools have been written and already abstracted it should be simple Sep 30 09:43:25 what to do what to do Sep 30 09:43:27 And g_timeout_add is indeed the preferred way to schedule code to be executed in the GUI thread. Sep 30 09:43:34 lcuk: Adding more stuff is ALWAYS wrong even if it has already been written Sep 30 09:43:46 lcuk: You are adding more variables to the equation basically Sep 30 09:43:55 having odd blowups (bitter experience) at random times is bad too Sep 30 09:44:10 nah, written it myself so no problem there Sep 30 09:44:14 lcuk: You can easily avoid this by proper locking Sep 30 09:44:19 other than that fact of course ;) Sep 30 09:44:23 mutex Sep 30 09:44:24 yes Sep 30 09:44:55 g_child_watch_add looks useful perhaps Sep 30 09:44:57 lardman: GetEntry(), ReleaseEntry(), AddEntry(), DeleteEntry() Sep 30 09:45:17 lardman: Notice that DeleteEntry() marks entry for deletion and it will get deleted as soon as the last lock is released Sep 30 09:45:25 lardman: All these functions are <5lines each Sep 30 09:45:36 hmm ok i played with the sb-menu tool and set emulation for FREMANTLE_ARMEL target so apt-get starts but now it appears that it cant resolve any adresses ("Temporary failure resolving 'repository.maemo.org'") Sep 30 09:46:02 lardman: And do not require glib Sep 30 09:46:36 RST38h: yeah, basically mutexes, but I'd prefer to not have to poll and wait for the thread to finish Sep 30 09:47:09 though I can also see the appeal of not getting too closely linked to glib Sep 30 09:47:53 lardman: You will not Sep 30 09:48:06 lardman: Yu are having a writer thread and a reader thread Sep 30 09:48:22 yep Sep 30 09:48:32 lardman: reader won't have to wait longer than it takes writer to add a new entry, writer does not wait at all, as both add and delete happen instantly Sep 30 09:49:15 but reader must wait for writer to download then parse the file before it can read Sep 30 09:49:58 lardman: why? Sep 30 09:50:16 lardman: the array of entries is notlocked while the writer is downloading and parsing Sep 30 09:50:24 because that's what the thread does, goes off and downloads a file, parses it and extracts useful info Sep 30 09:50:49 lardman:reader only needs to wait for a brief moment while writer updates the actual array with info Sep 30 09:50:49 I'm not bothered about the locking, just scheduling when the reader thread should actually read Sep 30 09:51:12 lardman:this should account for about 10-20 assembly instructions for the writer :) Sep 30 09:51:41 but the reader needs to wait until the writer has finished, somehow, and that will lock up the ui, etc Sep 30 09:52:00 unless I add a timed callback to poll some global var that the writer sets once it has written Sep 30 09:52:34 lardman: No, the writer can add a callback with g_timeout_add() that executes once. Sep 30 09:52:45 But it executes in the main GUI thread. Sep 30 09:52:51 ah! Sep 30 09:53:19 great, exactly what I need then Sep 30 09:53:45 thanks chaps, sorry for not explaining myself better Sep 30 09:58:06 hello #maemo morning shift :) Sep 30 09:58:14 morning javispedro Sep 30 09:58:15 morn Sep 30 10:00:15 * javispedro watches live n900 presentation ... cool. Sep 30 10:02:31 hi javis Sep 30 10:02:55 bbl chaps Sep 30 10:03:55 hiyo Sep 30 10:13:20 javispedro, hey dayshift guy Sep 30 10:13:33 lol Sep 30 10:13:35 Woody Allen, Pedro Almodovar and Martin Scorsese have "demanded the immediate release" of fellow filmmaker Roman Polanski, who was arrested in Switzerland on a U.S. arrest warrant related to a 1977 child sex charge. Sep 30 10:13:41 HAHAHA Sep 30 10:13:51 a bunch of perverts Sep 30 10:14:01 for sure :D Sep 30 10:14:38 the perverts want their fellow pervert released Sep 30 10:14:39 like nambla Sep 30 10:27:13 wtf have I stumbled into here? Sep 30 10:27:59 o_o? Sep 30 10:46:54 re Sep 30 10:47:44 re wog Sep 30 10:50:36 hm tasty dueruem doener for lunch Sep 30 10:52:58 the closer is actually pretty good Sep 30 10:53:10 macer? Sep 30 10:53:20 i'm watching the closer Sep 30 10:53:31 ah Sep 30 10:53:46 wasnt it a woman? Sep 30 10:53:49 Hi All! Sep 30 10:53:49 hey! any here knows how to change keyboard layout on easy debian? Sep 30 10:54:37 damn it's freezing here Sep 30 10:54:47 i guess saying "shit" on tv is a big thing nowadays? Sep 30 10:54:56 is there a limit to how many times they can say it or something? Sep 30 10:55:17 Anunakin the channelsname is easy debian? Sep 30 10:55:18 when they say it.. it seems so scripted Sep 30 10:56:13 macer yeah its freezing here too Sep 30 10:56:21 but we have blue sky too Sep 30 10:57:08 it isn't freezing yet ;) Sep 30 10:57:30 but it is getting there Sep 30 10:57:33 soon snow will come again Sep 30 10:57:38 Macer, no sure... but they can say "fuck" in a pg-13 movie once Sep 30 10:58:12 swc|666: heh. i think there is a limit to how they can say it or how many times they can say it on normal television Sep 30 10:58:20 it is very scripted Sep 30 10:58:30 like everybody goes silent when someoen gets ready to say shit on television Sep 30 10:58:39 yea i know :| Sep 30 10:59:09 hihi yes censorship is a wide topic Sep 30 10:59:21 and very very differently in the countries Sep 30 11:02:25 *waiting for eclipse upate* Sep 30 11:03:51 fornatly in these days updating minor release with eclipse isnt pain anymore Sep 30 11:11:54 i wonder if the actual effort to solve crimes is as strong in real life Sep 30 11:12:08 i doubt it Sep 30 11:12:44 macer hm? Sep 30 11:13:08 there is not such a think like csi in real life Sep 30 11:15:20 woglinde, of course there is, i think more police officers aspire to be chief wiggum tho :D Sep 30 11:15:59 Prosecutors have consistently argued that it would be a miscarriage of justice to allow a man who "drugged and raped a 13-year-old child" to go free. Sep 30 11:16:12 hollywood is full of pervs Sep 30 11:16:31 s\hollywood\the world\ Sep 30 11:17:28 lcuk: yeah. that too Sep 30 11:17:33 but hollywood has the ones that get away with it Sep 30 11:17:49 The victim should get some say though. Sep 30 11:17:51 the rich have a different system of everything :) Sep 30 11:18:04 this is Polanski Sep 30 11:18:22 http://www.cnn.com/2009/SHOWBIZ/Movies/09/29/polanski.filmmakers.protest/index.html Sep 30 11:18:30 Forget about the 13 year old. This is the guy that made The Pianist. Sep 30 11:18:32 wha tmakes it so bad is they are not arguing that he did or didn't do it Sep 30 11:18:35 He should be killed for that reason alone! Sep 30 11:18:40 hehe yeah Sep 30 11:18:54 they are arguing that he shouldn't have been tricked into being arrested Sep 30 11:18:55 hahaha Sep 30 11:19:06 macer yes polanski is special Sep 30 11:19:31 like "how could they arrest him while he was going to a party we were throwing?" Sep 30 11:19:51 but now I think there are more people, besides gadafhi, which belevies that swiss should be destroye Sep 30 11:19:53 "fuck the investigations, WE WANT THE TAPE!" Sep 30 11:19:54 d Sep 30 11:20:07 Something I learned while working with a Hollywood writer. People there just don't live in the real world. Sep 30 11:20:22 zerojay: haha Sep 30 11:20:25 they sure don't Sep 30 11:20:27 zerojay: if they did, they'd have easier time making intresting films Sep 30 11:20:30 zerojay nothing new Sep 30 11:20:44 i never saw the pianist Sep 30 11:21:00 i saw enough of the pianist to not see it Sep 30 11:21:01 No, nothing new because we have heard it many times before... what was new was some of the stories he's told me about being in Hollyweird. Sep 30 11:32:25 Has someone gotten the iptables nat working on n810 diablo? Sep 30 11:33:28 kynde you are trying to make your nxx a router? Sep 30 11:33:28 which way Sep 30 11:34:27 kynde: i think someone did Sep 30 11:35:10 along those lines, yes. I've built the modules needed for nat. And iptables -t nat works, but anomalously the forwarded packets miss the postrouting MASQUERADE rule. Sep 30 11:35:43 I've been poking around with google, but haven't found a proof of concept. Sep 30 11:37:07 Miss or are packets just not routed at all? Sep 30 11:38:13 They're routed all right, but without source IP change (i.e. nat masquerade) Sep 30 11:38:38 you've set the iup_forward thing in /proc Sep 30 11:39:32 Pastebin your rules? Sep 30 11:39:36 yup, they pass through forward alright. but somehow the iptables -t nat -A POSTROUTING -j MASQUERADE doesn't catch packets going out through wlan. Sep 30 11:40:01 iptables -vnL ; iptables -t nat -vnL Sep 30 11:40:08 (pastebin) Sep 30 11:40:29 -o wlan0 doesn't help either. I have numerous -j MASQUERADE varying rules that should work. Sep 30 11:41:48 there: http://pastebin.com/d54d1988a Sep 30 11:42:18 you have allowed routing from proc? Sep 30 11:42:52 yup. they wouldn't even forward otherwise. Sep 30 11:44:18 * SpeedEvil has just woken up and is simply operating on reflex Sep 30 11:44:42 may the router be screwing things up/ Sep 30 11:44:59 What are you trying to make your n800 do? Sep 30 11:45:20 What other interface than wlan do you have on it? Sep 30 11:45:42 act as an netboot server. got the udhcpd and tftpd working, but this forwarding (that's usually trivial) is becoming problematic. Sep 30 11:45:49 usb-nic Sep 30 11:46:37 So all devices connected to ethernet should have the n810's wlan IP? Sep 30 11:46:59 they should. Sep 30 11:49:47 No rules matching -o wlan0 seems strange then Sep 30 11:49:48 it's really bizarre, since I can see that for example the icmp echo requests hit the MASQUERADE rule in packet counts, but n810 tcpdump on n810 wlan0 shows them with the ip source from which they originated. Sep 30 11:50:33 i forget if tcpdump on wlan0 would show sensible and correct info Sep 30 11:50:51 Much better to tcpdump on something else on wlan.. Sep 30 11:53:39 done that, too. an icmp ping from n810 shows up on the otherside with the n810 wlan0 ip. but a ping from behind the n810 ups the packet cound in said MASQUERADE rule but even then shows up on the otherside with original IP unaltered. Sep 30 11:54:12 Now, what I'm thinking is that just about the only explanation that I have is that it has everything to do with the wlan driver. Isn't it closed source? Sep 30 11:54:27 not the relevant part Sep 30 11:55:41 kynde: Do you how more than on dhcp server on your network? Sep 30 11:55:52 s/how/have Sep 30 11:56:21 not on said network. Sep 30 11:56:44 If there is more than one it often causes problems. Sep 30 11:56:52 But I guess that is not the issue. Sep 30 11:57:06 I don't think the issue is dhcp related, since the machine "behind" n810 can ping the n180 (heck, it boots from it!). Sep 30 11:57:16 kynde: Good point. Sep 30 11:57:20 s/n180/n810/ Sep 30 11:57:20 kynde meant: I don't think the issue is dhcp related, since the machine "behind" n810 can ping the n810 (heck, it boots from it!). Sep 30 11:57:57 * kynde beat the bot. :) Sep 30 11:58:31 :) Sep 30 11:59:13 Ok, let's rephrase the original question. Has someone compiled an n810 diablo kernel in scratchbox with CONFIG_NF_CONNTRACK_ENABLED that actually works? Sep 30 11:59:58 Getting right to the heart of the matter. :) Sep 30 12:00:09 yup. :) Sep 30 12:00:17 Since, I ran into some problems during that stage. A kernel where that was set =n works flawlessly in n810, but even if I set it to =m the bugger won't work. Hangs if I hit the network selector. Sep 30 12:00:46 Macer: just reading the backlog, he admitted to a lesser charge in the US then fled before sentencing, that's why he's in trouble Sep 30 12:01:32 So I compiled the kernel with that flag set to n and then recompiled the modules straigh after that. insmodded them and got the iptables "working" but it's just that they fail to "masquerade". Sep 30 12:02:19 Which begs for the question: "has anyone gotten masquerading working on an n810?" Sep 30 12:04:00 kynde: try the maemo-developers list Sep 30 12:04:10 larger audience Sep 30 12:04:58 I think I will. I thought I'd ask you guys first. Sep 30 12:05:26 I've never tried, and you may have to wait for a while as this is work time in Europe, so we should all be working ;) Sep 30 12:05:32 wait for a reply that is Sep 30 12:06:10 * kynde is lucky enough to be able to actually work with nits. :) Sep 30 12:06:43 Yeah, we should all be working! ha ha ha! Working! Sep 30 12:07:13 kynde: shiny. Sep 30 12:07:22 (or do you not mean the optical unit) Sep 30 12:09:28 jeremiah: I can put you to work... need to know how to install icons and other random items Sep 30 12:09:53 but will probably just grab a random deb and see how it's done, rather than waste your time Sep 30 12:10:11 lardman: Did you include your icon in your package? (i.e. control file?) Sep 30 12:10:28 lardman: You never waste me time! =] Sep 30 12:10:55 I've not even created a debian directory yet Sep 30 12:11:01 Maemo has a kinda cool innovation where the icon for an app is included in-line as it were. Sep 30 12:11:01 have source + Makefile so far Sep 30 12:11:08 lardman: Ah, okay. Sep 30 12:11:35 which package would you recommend looking at to copy? Sep 30 12:11:39 lardman: I have a sample deb dir for you; Sep 30 12:11:43 hold on one sec . . . Sep 30 12:12:06 lardman: https://garage.maemo.org/svn/maemoexamples/trunk/dummy-package/debian/ Sep 30 12:12:12 ^^ That is from garage Sep 30 12:12:28 And it is pretty good because it is so minimalistic Sep 30 12:12:49 Maemo doesn't use all the debian stuff, so it is easier to _add_ things that remove them. Sep 30 12:12:54 At least in my opinion. Sep 30 12:13:11 great, I'll give that a go this evening and pester you tomorrow when I break it ;) Sep 30 12:13:17 jeremiah, thats the icon for the app manager isnt it Sep 30 12:13:25 not the icon for the app after installation Sep 30 12:13:30 lcuk: Yes. Sep 30 12:13:34 * lcuk nods Sep 30 12:13:39 ill have to learn how to do that myself Sep 30 12:13:49 I thought that is what we were referring to - maybe I'm confused. Sep 30 12:13:51 is your talk on packaging then Sep 30 12:13:56 ah yes, so what about the .desktop files, etc? Sep 30 12:14:02 where should they be placed? Sep 30 12:14:51 lcuk: Yeah, I'll speak on packaging. :) Sep 30 12:15:18 excellent Sep 30 12:15:22 lardman: I usually don't add a .desktop file in maemo, but I'll see what the practice is. For me it s more a debian thing Sep 30 12:15:36 aren't they needed to add it to the menu? Sep 30 12:15:48 * lardman normally writes DSP code and other stuff that doesn't get run directly Sep 30 12:15:50 lardman, liqtorch has quite a straight forward makefile + basic structure for all the required files Sep 30 12:16:04 its not hidden or covered with autotoolisms Sep 30 12:16:09 ok lcuk, will grab the source for that too and take a look-see Sep 30 12:16:15 and we know it puts everything in the right places Sep 30 12:16:20 Yeah, that might be a good place to start. :) Sep 30 12:16:32 * lcuk nods Sep 30 12:16:37 it should be illuminating Sep 30 12:16:38 * lardman wishes for an auto-debianiser Sep 30 12:16:44 oh dear! Sep 30 12:16:52 and if its not, blame qwerty :D Sep 30 12:17:22 right, lunch time, bbiab Sep 30 12:17:41 jepp with .desktop file no menu entry Sep 30 12:17:41 lardman: There is an auto-debianiser: debhelper Sep 30 12:17:48 args without Sep 30 12:17:49 lardman|lunch: Do a 'man dh_make' Sep 30 12:19:01 lardman|lunch: http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging,_Deploying_and_Distributing#Packaging Sep 30 12:19:20 how about "jeremiah dh_make" :D and we get a little avatar of you popping up on tablet Sep 30 12:19:42 lcuk: Heh - :P Sep 30 12:20:05 have fun folks, bbl Sep 30 12:20:05 \o Sep 30 12:20:07 o/ Sep 30 12:20:16 :P too # Sep 30 12:41:49 Stskeeps: by "low level", I meant packages rather than general concepts :P Sep 30 12:43:27 luke-jr: yeah, and i mean packages too Sep 30 12:48:22 luke-jr: google site:maemo.org filetype:ods oss Sep 30 12:48:29 that should find you the spreadsheets Sep 30 12:50:59 Stskeeps: both ODS files are too old to realisticly be N900 Sep 30 12:53:19 is maemo 5 the same as OS2008 on maemo.org, ie the apps under OS2008 will work on maemo 5? Sep 30 12:54:03 luke-jr: oh, this is for n8x0. i don't know about n900 Sep 30 12:55:16 oh, apparently it's not the same Sep 30 12:55:31 luke-jr: i wouldn't mind a n900 list really Sep 30 12:56:27 if I want to install screenshot through application manager to N900 what do I need to do ? Sep 30 12:56:29 http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo5.0beta/free/s/screenshot-tool/ Sep 30 12:56:39 add new catalogue ? Sep 30 12:56:42 or? Sep 30 12:56:53 i'd personally use the load applet Sep 30 12:56:53 aol_: Just install load-applet. Sep 30 13:00:52 hmm it says conflicting application packages, with maemo5-load-applet ... so already installed? Sep 30 13:00:56 0_o Sep 30 13:00:59 I'm such a noob :) Sep 30 13:02:05 ok it WAS already installed ... anyway, thanks for help! Sep 30 13:03:28 Anyone played with maemo5-load-applet? Sep 30 13:03:51 it is broken and interferes with load-applet Sep 30 13:04:26 seems to work Sep 30 13:04:31 Right. Sep 30 13:04:44 X-Fade: from the comments on http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_armel/maemo5-load-applet/0.2.9-1 it seems the package should be deleted. Sep 30 13:04:49 but right, load-applet did not install when there was already maemo5-load-applet Sep 30 13:08:36 Jaffa: Indeed, let me do that then. Sep 30 13:11:17 Hmm. Either Vodafone is denying me access to the Internet, or something's broken between my device and extras Sep 30 13:15:09 APN problems? Sep 30 13:15:13 Jaffa: Worksforme[tm] ? Sep 30 13:15:56 SpeedEvil: Seems to have just started. Reboot not sorted. Sep 30 13:17:26 Working now Sep 30 13:30:16 gm ;) Sep 30 13:35:27 How Palm Pre's "App Store" is clashing with open-source: http://www.precentral.net/submitting-palms-app-catalog-how-difficult-it Sep 30 13:36:30 " JWZ's tip calc brought up a lot of teeth-gnashing because he didn't care to implement the features that other people wanted on his app. But he posted the source, other people made the changes, re-posted his app, and everyone went their separate ways. Sep 30 13:36:41 "Under the conditions of the App Store contract, this isn't possible - it violates the clause about the App Store being the sole means of distribution. And *that* is absolutely unacceptable. Sep 30 13:37:15 Actually, Handango and friends also insist on clauses like this Sep 30 13:37:24 Another reason not to use app stores Sep 30 13:37:54 Yep. Managers are herds. They see Apple making money with something and say 'lets try that too'. Sep 30 13:39:06 IIRC, Nintendo was defeated in US courts on similar clasuses. (You may only release for Nintendo) Sep 30 13:39:16 *clauses Sep 30 13:39:43 RST38h: Easy money is still money. Sep 30 13:39:55 derf: What easy money? Sep 30 13:40:03 Copying a proven formula for success. Sep 30 13:40:18 derf: Do you get paid for copying or for success? =) Sep 30 13:40:33 pupnik, what case are you referring to w.r.t. Nintendo? Sep 30 13:40:54 I'm a Ph.D. in industry. I get paid for copying. Sep 30 13:42:25 derf: So your employer still loses on it? Sep 30 13:42:59 Probably. But everyone expects R&D to lose money. Sep 30 13:43:13 :D Sep 30 13:43:32 Fortunately I have one of the highest direct ratios in the department, so no one will come looking my way. Sep 30 13:43:45 derf: AFAIK, the guys rolling out app stores are in productization =) Sep 30 13:44:19 or some other vague department, services etc Sep 30 13:44:39 RST38h: Sure, but my point was, success breeds competition. Sep 30 13:45:10 If something makes money, people will try to imitate it, and no one cares about being "original". Sep 30 13:45:10 jeremiah: ok, will give that a go, thanks Sep 30 13:46:34 derf: ah, no argument there, I agree Sep 30 13:47:13 Ah, my Python GUI works: Sep 30 13:47:18 http://www.flickr.com/photos/30863507@N02/3968349651/in/set-72157622487386764/ Sep 30 13:47:33 derf: the real question is why all these guys (Palm, Nokia) think they will be successful by blindly copying apple Sep 30 13:47:49 "me too" job is not competition, it is just catching up Sep 30 13:48:11 Jaffa: I can see you took alot of time over that GUI, all the complex elements ;) Sep 30 13:48:23 also, if I were doing it, I would make getting as many apps as possible my top priority - weird that these guys do not Sep 30 13:49:02 ab: i can't recally specifics atm. i believe it was durin the 16-bit console era. Sep 30 13:49:39 http://vimeo.com/5592233 :) Sep 30 13:49:50 *not related to a previous discussion* Sep 30 13:49:58 lardman: There's some complexness in the accounts dialogue. And the progressbars. And the block-for-facebook-auth Sep 30 13:50:19 ab: Wisdom Tree Sep 30 13:50:48 Jaffa: don't worry, was only joking Sep 30 13:50:52 ab: actually, taking it back, different case Sep 30 13:51:05 lardman: I'll get my revenge... :-p Sep 30 13:51:08 ah, didn't notice there were more screenies either, doh! Sep 30 13:51:19 go for it, I hate GUIs :) Sep 30 13:51:50 will get mbarcode packaged up then you can abuse Sep 30 13:54:22 Reminds me of http://records.viu.ca/~johnstoi/kafka/beforethelaw.htm Kafka: Man before The Law Sep 30 13:54:32 ab: pretty cool concept :) Sep 30 13:54:53 lardman: lol didnt notice until you said it either Sep 30 13:55:02 frade, yep. It is also quite close to Mii concept on Nintendo Wii, which is what prompted me to show this link :) Sep 30 13:56:04 sorry, that was for frals Sep 30 13:56:12 :) Sep 30 13:58:00 hmm, just retuned and now have 2 of ITV2, both showing different programs, odd Sep 30 13:58:52 ab: Do you believe people will use something like this? Sep 30 13:58:59 lardman: One ITV2 is one too many :/ Sep 30 13:59:20 quite true Sep 30 13:59:32 RST38h, teens? Most probably. :) Sep 30 13:59:50 ab: oh god, I no longer understand teens... Sep 30 13:59:54 RST38h, what I see with Wii -- people do use it for fun, sure. Sep 30 13:59:59 though I like the sound of eventual HD, must go buy that 46" TV Sep 30 14:00:10 ab: To me this looks like the phone is trying to force me into certain behavioral patterns Sep 30 14:00:21 RST38h, my daughter is now only few years away from teenage Sep 30 14:00:37 i.e. can't access private stuff in the work mode, can't access work items in the home mode, etc Sep 30 14:00:45 RST38h, but isn't your regular phone is actually doing exactly that? :) Sep 30 14:00:52 hey all Sep 30 14:00:53 ab: Not really Sep 30 14:01:08 ab: it is more like a toolbox Sep 30 14:01:22 I need a tool, I pull it out, whatever "mode" I am in Sep 30 14:01:51 RST38h, the way this toolbox is organized is something that forces you to follow the UI anyway Sep 30 14:02:09 ab: Not here Sep 30 14:02:33 ab: S60 simply presentes me with a menu of app icons, I can choose whatever app I need Sep 30 14:02:34 At the party John makes a new friend..... Sep 30 14:02:42 without alcohol! never! Sep 30 14:03:17 RST38h, and it is restricting the way you interact with application and between applications :) Sep 30 14:03:22 ab: There is of course the Status Screen in S60, but it is pretty useless on E70 Sep 30 14:03:40 anyone with N97? Sep 30 14:03:53 ab: Well, that depends on the apps ui Sep 30 14:04:17 ab: But I would say the lack of screen estate restricts me much much more than the UI Sep 30 14:04:34 RST38h, and this is what I'm saying: you already following the UI provided by a platform or an application, not the UI follows your activities Sep 30 14:04:52 ab: Yes, I guess it is unavoidable Sep 30 14:04:59 RST38h, compare this to Sugar or this Mii-like experiment. Sep 30 14:05:12 ab: The only system that honestly tried to avoid it was original macOS Sep 30 14:05:15 ab: It failed :) Sep 30 14:06:01 Can't say much on Sugar, but this experiment looks unnecessarily restrictive to me: you do not really NEED to box the user into those "modes" but still do Sep 30 14:07:12 With S60 the designer can at least claim that he is forcing you into a single app because the screen is so small (and even then I am used to clicking the blue button all the time, pretty much like in Unix "screen") Sep 30 14:07:23 hi everybody Sep 30 14:09:00 RST38h, from what I saw in past, like 5 years, and what I continue to experience these days, many designers and companies are exploring this "virtual environment" approach with persona representatives and a context assigned to a specific environment. It is inevitable, at least in console gaming it is already there. Sep 30 14:09:40 RST38h, the question to get this popular is not in how it limits but how easy it is to get new "world" constructed for a "regular" person, without any artistic skills Sep 30 14:10:12 ab: It looks like a cute idea, I guess this is why the interest... Sep 30 14:10:12 RST38h, interaction is already explored and there are quite good results from it, again, see Wii's experience Sep 30 14:10:34 * RST38h not sure Wii experience can be applied to the real life...mhm Sep 30 14:10:39 hmm, can't get memory card to turn up under windows My computer, but device says it's in use for mass-storage Sep 30 14:10:58 ab: There are two alternatives though Sep 30 14:11:10 RST38h, nobody thought that this primitivism will be selling devices like hot cakes as well :) Sep 30 14:11:27 ab: First is the original MacOS idea - give the user an abstract desktop (or some other workspace) and let him do what he wants, no restrictions by mode Sep 30 14:12:11 ab: Second the context-sensitive idea - somehow teach the device sense the context the user is in and compose environment accoridngly Sep 30 14:12:25 aka augmented reality :) Sep 30 14:12:43 the latter one is something that is hot in research now Sep 30 14:12:49 lardman: are you running a VM with the usb mounted? Sep 30 14:12:55 Yea, with Tracker being one of the byproducts Sep 30 14:12:58 for past few years many vendors tried and failed with it :) Sep 30 14:12:59 we should use the accelerometers to detect strong dissatisfaction with the device and close the application Sep 30 14:13:08 lol Sep 30 14:13:14 ab: Unfortunately, yes. And with the first, original idea too. Sep 30 14:13:44 ab: I actually think it is too early to discard the original workspace idea, maybe with *some* augmentation Sep 30 14:14:03 * RST38h looks for the linux tool that did that, a moment Sep 30 14:14:36 for most work tasks, there's no useful information in a 3d perspective view Sep 30 14:14:37 the problem with augmentation has always been lag - its like standard vr Sep 30 14:14:43 and having to wear a big head unit Sep 30 14:14:51 lcuk: *different* augmentation :) Sep 30 14:14:59 if we could augment reality using a laser field Sep 30 14:15:01 pupnik: no, think it's just windows being a pita as the drive letter it wants to use is already in use Sep 30 14:15:02 :D Sep 30 14:15:24 lcuk: Augmentation as in "you meet a person, your phone detects his phone's BT id, andpulls info on the guy to the screen" Sep 30 14:16:05 ahhh like the happy feeling in pants when you meet and detect an attractive female Sep 30 14:16:19 lol Sep 30 14:16:38 would be useful for conferences Sep 30 14:16:40 RST38h, even that will be devastating to device's performance. Power consumption will be way forbidding Sep 30 14:16:51 or possible for GSoC meetings, according to the mailing list ;) Sep 30 14:17:16 ab - at onedotzero i had n900 round next and it could quite easily have a list of known bluetooth adapters Sep 30 14:17:23 ab: in principle, with phones that know the time maybe not. Sep 30 14:17:33 ab: Depends =) Sep 30 14:17:49 round neck Sep 30 14:17:49 ab: In principle it might send out a wifi ping at the top of the minute forex. Sep 30 14:18:13 So any phones only need to turn on wifi at 0-1s of the minute Sep 30 14:18:25 SpeedEvil, no ned for just top of the minute Sep 30 14:18:46 its just a matter of being on same router and using multicast Sep 30 14:18:52 even that is not something you would consider if doing power management savings Sep 30 14:19:02 lcuk: I mean ad-hoc mode ping Sep 30 14:19:17 that implies disconnecting from network you are on Sep 30 14:19:20 losing internet etc Sep 30 14:19:25 rather than just being on the same router Sep 30 14:19:30 /networkl Sep 30 14:19:37 lcuk: I was assuming that this was for the 'wandering round town' use-case Sep 30 14:19:45 bluetooth Sep 30 14:19:58 ab: One consideration is that you do not want to compute and present all the data at once, so you can spread analysis over time, cache it, present the end result when the user actually clicks something Sep 30 14:20:03 BT has some nastiness. Sep 30 14:20:24 yeah it always does - but for random interactions its one of the only ways Sep 30 14:20:30 RST38h, sure, would be good to have this actually done in applications. Sep 30 14:20:36 i can see whos knocking at the door most days without going downstairs Sep 30 14:20:40 just by looking at the bt list Sep 30 14:20:51 ab: In fact, in that BT example, good privacy rule suggests that it should only be done if the other guy initiates the connection =) Sep 30 14:21:06 :) Sep 30 14:21:07 ab: I remember having seen something similar, googling for it now Sep 30 14:21:07 Well - it depends. Sep 30 14:21:24 There may be some information you're quite happy to share with everyone within 10m. Sep 30 14:22:04 bbl agian Sep 30 14:23:53 afk Sep 30 14:24:04 wasn't this the reason the zeroconf/bonjour thing was created for wifi? Sep 30 14:26:29 ab: Shit, can't find it :( I first thought about Samurize but it does not seem to have the proper plugins Sep 30 14:27:14 ab: Anyways, the exact idea was as follows: Sep 30 14:27:34 * ab has to go, bus cannot wait Sep 30 14:27:44 ab: next time then Sep 30 14:27:47 I'll read in a morning. Sep 30 14:28:07 I am leaving in 30 minutes myself Sep 30 14:28:24 hmm, sounds like it's catching, I may have to leave too Sep 30 14:33:44 I'm thinking of doing a set of gnome-color icons to match the Fremantle Theme I'm doing for Diablo think they will match it good? Sep 30 15:26:30 i am testing suspending firefox when not using it Sep 30 15:26:35 hasn't broken any websites so far Sep 30 15:27:11 hint... might be doable on tablet Sep 30 15:28:14 a webbrowser that sends my laptop into screaming-fan mode while *IDLING* is ... *not* ... acceptable Sep 30 15:30:43 true Sep 30 15:31:19 i think someone should register & utilize maemo-look.org Sep 30 15:32:18 zemm: Yes, let's fragment the community more. Great plan ;) Sep 30 15:32:55 well do a redirect to existing theme-stuff, and make an effort to bring all into one place ;) Sep 30 15:32:59 Users, users, users. Sep 30 15:33:38 my main point was that before the domain is in hands of someone.. not from here Sep 30 15:34:13 Users.... Sep 30 15:34:17 zemm: would that be something like hel-looks.com ? Sep 30 15:34:28 zemm: You can register the whole ascii range then. Sep 30 15:35:33 let's not be black and white now >:| there are active kde- xfce- gnome- s60- etc looks.org:s and sooner or later there will be something Sep 30 15:36:22 zemm: I wonder why people always register separate domains instead of just using a host under the original domain. Sep 30 15:36:56 *cough* AdSense *cough* Sep 30 15:37:22 qwerty12: Yeah, it just makes no other sense. Sep 30 15:37:37 *pun intended* Sep 30 15:37:46 Different ssl, different cookie, forget about one login.. Sep 30 15:37:48 AdCents Sep 30 15:39:01 I've managed to get SBOX_REDIRECT_IGNORE=/usr/bin/python working ONLY IF you have /usr/bin as the first thing in your $PATH, if it's at any other position, even if anything before it doesn't exist, it breaks REDIRECT... Oh how I love how well-designed scratchbox really is. Sep 30 15:40:03 well, I don't remember that. Sep 30 15:40:16 hm pc-connectivity Sep 30 15:40:25 This isn't from running python directly, it's when I use SCons. Sep 30 15:40:39 Scratchbox has got to be one of the worst development environments out there. Sep 30 15:40:48 coldboot *g* Sep 30 15:40:51 ^ Sep 30 15:41:12 I've never known what *g* means... Sep 30 15:41:15 * javispedro likes it Sep 30 15:41:23 *grin* Sep 30 15:41:27 ha Sep 30 15:41:51 javispedro: I've managed to break ARM builds for Qt, and clean installing scratchbox won't fix it. Sep 30 15:42:06 javispedro: So when I run the program in Xephyr, every picture and button gets rammed into the corner of the screen. Sep 30 15:42:06 coldboot how that? Sep 30 15:42:14 X-Fade as a user i just would be more glad to find some real theme-stuff (be it redirect to theme section @maemo.org ";)") there rather than spam/ads Sep 30 15:42:19 woglinde: I have no idea, I can't reproduce it because once it's happened it doesn't ever go away. Sep 30 15:42:29 coldboot: but how can such an evil act of black magic be sbox's fault? Sep 30 15:42:34 since it was my first intuition to look after failing to see such at the main site Sep 30 15:42:46 javispedro: I'm guessing that it is. Sep 30 15:42:49 purge your computer from the evil spirits ;) Sep 30 15:42:53 javispedro: Because it fails in so many other ways. Sep 30 15:43:00 ~lart n810 internal gps Sep 30 15:43:00 * infobot tries to shut n810 internal gps up Sep 30 15:43:05 no Sep 30 15:43:36 GeneralAntilles: If I invent a way to be able to shoot Talk members over the internet, will you be my first customer? Sep 30 15:43:57 qwerty12: Make sure you add a safeguard so your tool can't turn against you. Sep 30 15:44:00 qwerty12, I ought to patent my neck-taser idea at some point. Sep 30 15:44:04 Rule #1 of desinging lethal systems :) Sep 30 15:44:12 :D Sep 30 15:44:19 See RoboCop for potential loopholes to be aware of. Sep 30 15:44:39 qwerty12: gimme too. Sep 30 15:44:54 there's a recent craze all over tmo I don't understand. Sep 30 15:45:01 Ah, yeah, I can imagine that there's a long list of people wanting to shot me. Sep 30 15:45:05 <-- annoying prick Sep 30 15:45:05 ocr app for N900 so it jangles whenever you see a target at the summit? Sep 30 15:45:13 *shoot Sep 30 15:45:46 why people seem to think suddenly all of the software designed for the n810 is going to misteriously *disappear* and that the n900 needs brand new software developed from ground 0 Sep 30 15:45:46 javispedro: Which one? Sep 30 15:45:52 Ah. Sep 30 15:46:17 javispedro: Well one thing is true, the n810 sucks in absolute terms, and the n900 is actually good. Sep 30 15:46:19 Jaffa: cos that's what happens on other platforms? :P Sep 30 15:46:25 err Sep 30 15:46:26 javispedro: Sep 30 15:46:35 coldboot: rubbish Sep 30 15:46:37 So I would imagine the amount of n900 users will become way larger than the number of n810 users Sep 30 15:46:51 Stskeeps: heh, that makes sense :P Sep 30 15:46:56 lardman: The n810 keyboard is impossible to type on. Sep 30 15:46:59 well that's also due to better "user" appeal Sep 30 15:47:07 lardman: It's one of the worst qwerty keyboards on the market. Sep 30 15:47:10 I kinda like the N810 keyboard. Sep 30 15:47:17 I have no problems with it. Sep 30 15:47:20 coldboot: if this craze is any kind of indicative, then yes, for sure. Sep 30 15:47:27 coldboot: In *absolute* terms, the N810 is amazing. It's a pocket computer. 400MHz ARM chip. I paid over 700gbp in 1994 or thereabouts for a 12MHz ARM computer. Sep 30 15:47:31 coldboot I can type on the n810 bettern then on cell phone Sep 30 15:47:42 In *comparitive* terms, the N810 sucks. Sep 30 15:47:46 and its pretty damn high dpi the display :) Sep 30 15:47:47 woglinde: You're comparing it to T9. Sep 30 15:47:56 I agree with jaffa on that one. Sep 30 15:48:00 The iPhone and Blackberry are much better than the n810 Sep 30 15:48:02 the screen of n810 is larger than n900 Sep 30 15:48:03 Jaffa: Acorn? Sep 30 15:48:13 If you use a Blackberry, you wouldn't think the n810 has an even useable keyboard. Sep 30 15:48:16 No - the iPhone has no worthwhile software Sep 30 15:48:17 coldboot I cannt type on t9 Sep 30 15:48:18 qwerty12: Yup. Finally upgraded from my BBC Model B to an A3010 :) Sep 30 15:48:18 iphone has an incy wincy screen and no kbd Sep 30 15:48:21 I am to dumb Sep 30 15:48:30 and my actual cellphone dont have T9 Sep 30 15:48:31 haha Sep 30 15:48:41 I bet you people can type faster on the iPhone screen keyboard than on an n810. Sep 30 15:48:43 Jaffa: Hehe, I used to remember playing on one in school... :D Sep 30 15:49:00 jaska: But the iPhone is designed well. Sep 30 15:49:11 haha Sep 30 15:49:29 i just had a friend come by that was cursing his 3gs'es Sep 30 15:49:47 jeremiah: What does the n810 have in terms of software that you can't get the equivalent on the iPhone? Sep 30 15:49:59 Lots of stuff from debian Sep 30 15:50:02 coldboot itunes connect? Sep 30 15:50:04 i see ppl everyday that curse their nokia devices Sep 30 15:50:08 Linux Sep 30 15:50:10 hide and duck* Sep 30 15:50:39 yeah, i wouldnt touch anything running symbian with anything othe than a sledgehammer Sep 30 15:50:45 coldboot: no way, iphone kb is crap Sep 30 15:50:48 woglinde: What is iTunes connect? I imagine it's crap because it has the word "iTunes" on it. Sep 30 15:50:50 Lots of the software I want to use when I run my iPhone just doesn't work - that is not necessarily Apple's fault Sep 30 15:50:52 lardman: You're right, it is. Sep 30 15:50:53 you don't have to wait for a crack when a new fw comes out to get ssh Sep 30 15:51:01 lardman: But it's faster to type on than an n810. Sep 30 15:51:06 no Sep 30 15:51:11 at least not for me Sep 30 15:51:20 coldboot, multitasking. Sep 30 15:51:29 expandable memory Sep 30 15:51:30 hm diablo has no connection to ovi? Sep 30 15:51:40 Plus, my iPhone has _never_ worked with the cell phyone network I have, due to locking etc. Sep 30 15:51:45 EIPHONEFAIL Sep 30 15:51:54 GeneralAntilles: Yeah, that's true. Sep 30 15:52:04 jeremiah: EiPHONEFAIL surely ;) Sep 30 15:52:06 I mean, I think the iPhone is inferior to a blackberry. Sep 30 15:52:06 jeremiah bought a cdma one? Sep 30 15:52:08 Furthermore - you _have_ to develop in Objective C! Sep 30 15:52:18 objc makes java look verbose :) Sep 30 15:52:22 err, terse Sep 30 15:52:26 woglinde: I got one as a birthday present. Sep 30 15:52:26 They do have their own independent strengths. Sep 30 15:52:40 The apps for the iPhone are embarrassing Sep 30 15:52:51 I mean, farts, beer, sports girls Sep 30 15:52:52 jeremiah: I'd break contact with that person for not knowing you well enough :p Sep 30 15:52:55 Come on man Sep 30 15:53:03 qwerty12: =] Sep 30 15:53:03 qwerty *g* Sep 30 15:53:34 qwerty a reason to dismiss your girlfriend? Sep 30 15:53:58 Clearly. Sep 30 15:54:00 beer, sports girls, what's wrong there? Sep 30 15:54:06 lardman: Heh Sep 30 15:54:15 must grab my wife's iTouch and install those Sep 30 15:54:21 Nothing - but I prefer them in the flesh, not fake on a phone. Sep 30 15:54:24 wow I got gps connect inside a building Sep 30 15:54:25 Most of them anyway. Sep 30 15:54:27 lol yeah Sep 30 15:54:42 jeremiah: Criticizing a few stupid applications is making a straw-man argument. I would even say it indicates how much software there is, shedding light on how much good software there might be. Sep 30 15:54:42 woglinde: Of course. :p Now, if she (I wish) was to buy me an N900... Sep 30 15:54:43 Happy to skip the farts Sep 30 15:55:03 qwerty he both have sms function Sep 30 15:55:05 lightsabre was good for 5s Sep 30 15:55:09 coldboot: Okay, fair enough. But there is one powerful argument you cannot contradict: Sep 30 15:55:10 jeremiah: They're kind of cornering the market on mobile application development. Tons of web services have made iPhone apps, like Zipcar and Mint.com Sep 30 15:55:18 The iPhone is a closed platform Sep 30 15:55:26 jeremiah: That's true, and annoying. Sep 30 15:55:36 The N900 is one of the most free platforms out there Sep 30 15:55:39 That is huge Sep 30 15:55:44 Yeah the n900 is a lot better. Sep 30 15:55:47 and the N810 is still cool Sep 30 15:55:54 I would much rather participate with that community than work for Apple Sep 30 15:56:08 coldboot, problem is, that doesn't follow. The shit $0.99 software has made it impossible to sell good software. Sep 30 15:56:15 Since nobody will buy anything for a reasonable price. Sep 30 15:56:25 Me too, but if you want to make an app that reaches a wide audience, you're stuck supporting popular platforms. Sep 30 15:56:39 just read about an hour of log since i've been afk and I don't think we need maemo-look.org but it would be nice to have a place on maemo.org dedicated to theme alot of people don't know what themes there are or how to make new ones could be a usefull section Sep 30 15:57:02 GeneralAntilles: I'm not sure that flooding the market with $1 crap is going to bring the market price down for good software. Sep 30 15:57:07 AndrewFBlack, wiki page with screenshots linking to Downloads? Sep 30 15:57:14 Nobody ever bought mobile applications in large numbers for even $10. Sep 30 15:57:35 Didn't Palm once have a lively app community? Sep 30 15:57:36 coldboot, there aren't many complex high-quality applications out there for the iPhone. Sep 30 15:57:38 people get used to the low prices and the poor quality sw so don't want to pay more? Sep 30 15:57:39 I mean consumers, not businesses deploying an app to mobiles in their organization. Sep 30 15:58:24 GeneralAntilles, yeah I guess your right Sep 30 15:58:25 businesses buy iPhones?! Sep 30 15:58:43 GeneralAntilles, but your average user has no idea how to find anything in the wiki Sep 30 15:58:49 I just mean that the market price for mobile apps has never been "reasonable", ie above $5. Sep 30 15:58:54 AndrewFBlack: yeah, by looking themes for the first time, all i found was some talk-threads about new themes, and separate blogs listing them. which is not good solution Sep 30 15:58:55 lardman: yes. Surprising (and total utter bollocks), but true Sep 30 15:58:57 Unless it's highly specialized. Sep 30 15:58:58 jeremiah: yes. with hundreds of thousands of apps. Sep 30 15:59:13 and I wonder how MANY times they pissed everyone of them. Sep 30 15:59:16 qwerty12: need better managers to stop them arsing around and make them do some work Sep 30 15:59:39 infact I wouldsay alot of uses don't know we have a wiki since its not easy to find from front page Sep 30 15:59:44 javispedro: Didn't they used to charge for them as well? Sep 30 16:00:08 AndrewFBlack: You have a point, the wiki can be a little hard to find Sep 30 16:00:22 jeremiah: there was a bunch of app stores and not a single one Sep 30 16:00:27 also i like the way how nowdays platforms have ability to fetch community provided artwork straight via settings (and i find gnome so ancient for not supporting this) Sep 30 16:00:28 and also a lot of freeware. Sep 30 16:00:36 javispedro: Ah, okay. Sep 30 16:01:09 AndrewFBlack: I guess this is a good way to get people involved, submitting themes, etc., might be worth a section somewhere Sep 30 16:01:09 apps were distributed usually as single-file (installers or executable files) Sep 30 16:01:40 what about a download section for themes? :) Sep 30 16:01:54 I wonder why they didn't make the n900 multi-touch. Sep 30 16:04:00 AndrewFBlack: Seen wazd's proposal? Sep 30 16:04:15 don't underestimate wallpapers either, specially with that panorama-desktop-thingy, and supposedly wider audience with n900.. Sep 30 16:04:24 Jaffa, proposal on what? Sep 30 16:04:57 It basically boiled down to, after some discussion here, http://design.maemo.org/ redirecting to a "Design" forum under tmo. Some stickies in there pointing to the best themes & tools on downloads.maemo.org, + a link to the "Themes" section on downloads.maemo.org Sep 30 16:05:12 AndrewFBlack: What, effectively, the discussion around maemo-look.org is Sep 30 16:05:12 javispedro, I asked about theme section for downloads along time ago I think they decided it wasn't needed Sep 30 16:06:39 Jaffa, thats good but I've been asking for a theme section of tmo for almost 2 years and always been told it didn't need its own section same wih the Themes section under downloads.maemo.org Sep 30 16:06:39 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=31177 Sep 30 16:07:05 well that could be in the feed as usual of course Sep 30 16:07:05 but would need a showcase Sep 30 16:07:21 the wonders of TalkTalk Sep 30 16:07:44 * lardman checks the archive to see when he dropped out Sep 30 16:08:26 lardman: You didn't miss a thing. Your last stmt was "It would need a showcase" Sep 30 16:08:36 ah Sep 30 16:08:42 we can then embrace .install files once again Sep 30 16:08:42 is kontorri (spelling?) doing a theme maker again? Sep 30 16:08:54 ~lart TalkTalk Sep 30 16:08:54 * infobot explains, ever so gently, that if TalkTalk doesn't give the channel more information, they can't help Sep 30 16:10:06 anyone know if a header is attached if I try to GET a jpeg? Sep 30 16:10:31 Jaffa, I like the ideas of the tmo section and all is this moving forward or ust talk so far? Sep 30 16:11:42 lardman: Been done Sep 30 16:11:51 good good Sep 30 16:12:35 AndrewFBlack: Just talk. I think a few people need to say "yeah, this is a good idea" - then we can prod X-Fade for the redirect and get Reggie to create the section. Then it's just a question of who moderates (you, wazd & timsamoff?) and takes on creating the stickies Sep 30 16:13:21 well as one of the most active theme makers I'm saying its a good idea. Sep 30 16:13:44 AndrewFBlack: Cool :) Sep 30 16:13:56 Jaffa: I still think something pretty, i.e. pages with the theme stuff displayed would be good Sep 30 16:14:17 lardman: Yeah, but isn't that basically screenshots in downloads.maemo.org? Sep 30 16:14:33 dunno, never ever visited it Sep 30 16:14:36 AndrewFBlack, well, wiki for content and layout, you can link to that page from anywhere else. Sep 30 16:14:40 apt-get all the way Sep 30 16:15:26 * GeneralAntilles hits lardman with the ceremonial beating trout. Sep 30 16:15:32 heh Sep 30 16:15:39 :) Sep 30 16:15:44 The Ceremonial Beating Trout! Sep 30 16:15:47 Has appeared! Sep 30 16:16:43 I think we could have a sticky that was lock that showed all the current themes with say two screen shots each that way someone can go there and get an overview of all the themes Sep 30 16:16:45 luckily I'm wearing the stolen Council hat of power, so it just bounced off with a vaguely sulphurous smell Sep 30 16:17:11 sticky could have link to the thread for each theme as well Sep 30 16:17:13 That thing needs to be washed Sep 30 16:17:17 Bounce this. Sep 30 16:17:19 Seriously. Sep 30 16:17:19 * qwerty12 shoots lardman Sep 30 16:17:24 I ain't going anywhere near that hat. Sep 30 16:17:29 lardman, you don't know where that's been, but let me tell you. . . . Sep 30 16:17:32 just a flesh wound Sep 30 16:17:34 heh Sep 30 16:17:41 lardman, beware gangrene. Sep 30 16:18:00 It's been on lardman's head. Anywhere else is pale in comparison Sep 30 16:18:02 yeah, but I should be able to kill qwerty12 with a cleaver before that gets me Sep 30 16:18:23 lardman: http://maemo.org/downloads/OS2008/desktop-environment/ for exmaple Sep 30 16:18:48 "Waiting for maemo.org...." Sep 30 16:18:54 Jaffa, any way to get a section just for themes? Sep 30 16:19:01 ah yes, is quite pretty Sep 30 16:19:28 alot of other stuff in that section that well eally don't belong like diskusage Sep 30 16:19:51 and what the heck is fbreader doing in that section Sep 30 16:20:27 AndrewFBlack: programmers. It costed me a few years to understand a File manager is a "System" app and not an Utility. Sep 30 16:20:49 really Sep 30 16:20:55 no wonder I have troubles finding things Sep 30 16:21:24 er... yeah. Sep 30 16:21:29 well, going out. cy. Sep 30 16:21:44 lardman: I don't see why not. Makes sense if there's a push and ownership in this area. Sep 30 16:21:50 s/lardman/AndrewFBlack/ Sep 30 16:21:51 Jaffa meant: AndrewFBlack: I don't see why not. Makes sense if there's a push and ownership in this area. Sep 30 16:22:01 I don't remember any discussion saying "Theme" is really bad to have Sep 30 16:22:28 Those categories probably haven't been touched since OS2005 Sep 30 16:22:35 X-Fade is the man in the know, I guess Sep 30 16:22:54 ok someone needs to get pushing on xfade and reggie I got a new theme coming out on friday and I would like it done by them lol Sep 30 16:23:20 AndrewFBlack: Well volunteered ;-) Sep 30 16:23:32 No one better placed than someone who wants an itch scratched Sep 30 16:24:05 * frals starts scratching the MMS-itch Sep 30 16:25:00 oh so there were themes in that desktop section.. just thinking about the supposed wider audience with n900. i'd bet some of those people will be at some point specially look for -> themes, not browsing through some ambigious sections with single hits Sep 30 16:25:27 zemm: No doubt. Sep 30 16:27:02 really needs to be someon from council to get with Reggie that way he will be more likely to add it Sep 30 16:27:23 I'm not saying iPhone is the best keyboard, it certainly sucks. But I bet you can't type faster than this on an n810: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBKkxkYl8jo&feature=PlayList&p=A31AE13E6DD4D9E8&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=14 Sep 30 16:28:27 no, I also can't do a backflip Sep 30 16:28:59 but I can type faster on an N810 than an i-thingie Sep 30 16:29:01 Not surprised... Sep 30 16:29:10 coldboot, not an the N810's hardware keyboard, but definitely on the finger keyboard on my N800. Sep 30 16:29:15 hey! once I start moving there's no stopping me Sep 30 16:29:37 "An object at rest cannot be stopped!" Sep 30 16:30:03 you saying the entire galaxy rotates around me? Sep 30 16:30:17 maybe true Sep 30 16:30:19 Here's the blackberry: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Egie4ApwoUg Sep 30 16:30:37 I am just quoting the Mad Midnight Bomber what Bombs at Midnight. Sep 30 16:30:51 :) Sep 30 16:31:14 got a tracking number for my touchbook Sep 30 16:31:15 heh Sep 30 16:31:20 coldboot, get back to me when a Blackberry has a reasonably sized touchscreen. Sep 30 16:32:57 GeneralAntilles: Yeah that's definitely a limitation, and the storm failed. Sep 30 16:33:05 * lardman goes into intensive N810 kb training Sep 30 16:34:31 Wow, check this out: ack-grep --cpp "const int" Sep 30 16:34:43 In Ubuntu: sudo apt-get install ack-grep Sep 30 16:34:46 It's better than grep. Sep 30 16:35:11 Jaffa, I send Reggie an IM on forums don't know if he will respond but maybe he will get working on it. Sep 30 16:35:29 I could just hold the bug fixes i"m doign ot minimalist theme hostage until he does it lol Sep 30 16:42:06 off, out bbl Sep 30 16:42:27 http://betterthangrep.com Sep 30 16:57:20 ack is awesome Sep 30 16:57:30 just saying Sep 30 16:57:59 ... I wonder why I don't have it on my NIT. Sep 30 16:58:13 I guess cuz I don't do a lot of grepping. Sep 30 16:58:40 so... I see there's one whole app in the N900 app store. :) Sep 30 16:59:07 sneakret, welcome to an unreleased product. Sep 30 16:59:13 :) Sep 30 16:59:26 I'm not complaining! Sep 30 16:59:29 Just noticing. Sep 30 16:59:50 Quim is the Antichrist, ahhhhhhhh we are all doomed Sep 30 17:00:28 Can I put my GPL software in the Nokia app store? Sep 30 17:00:33 I'll happily take money from fools. Sep 30 17:00:58 Is Nokia working on making a cross-platform development environment for Maemo 5? Sep 30 17:01:00 costs 50 to sign up to be able to publish thou Sep 30 17:01:19 ... I'll rephrase that. Where can I read about Nokia's plans for the Maemo 5 SDK? Sep 30 17:01:20 Oh, screw that then. Sep 30 17:01:45 frals, same terms for Maemo? Too bad. Sep 30 17:01:46 Is it still easy to release free software for the N900? Sep 30 17:02:16 I mean, as easy as it was on the N8x0... Sep 30 17:02:16 GeneralAntilles: I assume it's the same for everyone, just going on what's at publish.ovi.com Sep 30 17:02:58 sneakret, easier than ever. Sep 30 17:03:18 Oh yeah? Sep 30 17:03:23 How is it easier? Sep 30 17:03:33 https://garage.maemo.org/extras-assistant/index.php Sep 30 17:04:17 Does that also apply to N8x0? Sep 30 17:04:23 (so it's just improved overall?) Sep 30 17:04:33 looks that way Sep 30 17:05:07 Yes Sep 30 17:05:14 There's a whole QA process now, too. Sep 30 17:05:22 you don't HAVE to use the store if thats the q Sep 30 17:05:58 Awesome. Sep 30 17:06:20 what about my SDK question? Sep 30 17:06:34 Is Nokia making it easier to get going? Sep 30 17:06:57 sdk should improve yeah :P but not sure about fremantle one Sep 30 17:07:04 hmm well. thats matter of opinion i'd think? i'm under impression that now you can just download a vmware/virtualbox/whatever image and go rolling Sep 30 17:07:28 which is a hell a lot better than hmm.. some other mobile platforms Sep 30 17:07:41 Stskeeps: you have a N900, don't you? Sep 30 17:07:57 Yeah, being able to download a VM is handy. Not necessarily ideal, though. Sep 30 17:07:59 luke-jr: i honestly can say i don't Sep 30 17:08:27 You've been able to grab a scratchbox VM for quite a while. Sep 30 17:17:57 So who's going to be the first to boot from a microSD/eMMC RAID? ;) Sep 30 17:18:38 fuck, im out of money completely. im not going to the summit, im not able to pay bills. http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=32253 Sep 30 17:19:00 Wow, bummer. Sep 30 17:19:15 Uh... only half a paycheck?\ Sep 30 17:19:28 lcuk, take him to court? Sep 30 17:20:02 that does not help now Sep 30 17:20:11 How does that work? Sep 30 17:20:28 I mean... paying you only half...? Sep 30 17:20:36 What's the justification? Sep 30 17:20:40 i have not worked the 6/12 months this year but used more holidays Sep 30 17:22:05 Is your ex-employer at all interested in you doing any more work? Sep 30 17:22:44 ow, sorry to hear that lcuk Sep 30 17:23:48 I guess that would defeat the purpose of leaving, but at least you'd be paying the bills. Sep 30 17:25:31 i can do some more tidying up and could collaborate on other things, but he was unwilling to allow me the freedom to do the open source stuff with me being a fulltime employee - which was where the problem came from in the first place Sep 30 17:26:08 but right now im pissed with him Sep 30 17:28:00 hm food goes first, then opensource Sep 30 17:28:03 thats my motto Sep 30 17:28:41 argh Sep 30 17:28:48 konttori__, Engadget! Sep 30 17:28:52 http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/30/video-snes-runs-beautifully-on-n900-makes-out-hearts-flutter Sep 30 17:28:54 repository is not accepting my ssh key again =( Sep 30 17:29:01 W.T.F. Sep 30 17:29:04 oh god. Sep 30 17:29:07 hehe javis Sep 30 17:29:15 and I though Youtube was bad enough already :P Sep 30 17:29:27 javis will you write an opengl plugin for snes-emu? Sep 30 17:29:32 on n900? Sep 30 17:29:56 I'll try, I have some ideas Sep 30 17:30:01 javis: btw, what API are you using to show screen in full-screen mode? Sep 30 17:30:06 okay Sep 30 17:30:10 will leave now Sep 30 17:30:12 bye all Sep 30 17:30:15 till later Sep 30 17:30:17 RST38h: want to guess? still SDL + XShm :) Sep 30 17:30:22 cy wog Sep 30 17:30:54 Ah ok Sep 30 17:34:03 RST38h: and your pixel doubler. If you're interested, on N8x0 using a barebones unrolled C scaler is a 10 fps hit, while your pixel doubler is only a 5fps hit. Sep 30 17:34:55 (inlined, not a function call for every scanline) Sep 30 17:34:59 javis: As expected Sep 30 17:35:22 Actually, I do not think you need to unroll it Sep 30 17:35:58 16 src pixels / iteration I tried in the C version iirc Sep 30 17:36:17 oh you mean unrolling the 16-pixel part Sep 30 17:36:25 yeah, like your one does :) Sep 30 17:36:26 btw, thanks! Sep 30 17:36:29 yea, that is definitely worth unrolling in C Sep 30 17:36:40 Ah you are welcome, thanks for the app =) Sep 30 17:45:10 It's finally started to turn cool for Fall. Sep 30 17:45:15 Beautiful 75°F out. Sep 30 17:46:30 :/ Sep 30 17:46:45 There are the first hints of autumn colours here. Sep 30 17:46:58 Hehe, that we don't get. Sep 30 17:47:05 I should say "Winter" since we only have 2 seasons here. Sep 30 17:47:15 (Fife, Scotland) Sep 30 17:47:28 Florida, USA ;) Sep 30 17:47:30 :/ - as I've still got lots of outside work to do Sep 30 17:47:32 GeneralAntilles: lol! thanks! Sep 30 17:49:31 9C here... fuckin freezing to get to the metro in the morning :( Sep 30 17:50:38 General: Rain and No-Rain? Sep 30 17:50:58 2C. Is it a record for this channel? Sep 30 17:51:36 RST38h, nah, it rains all year. Sep 30 17:51:42 Hot and hummid, cold and hummid. Sep 30 17:51:44 oh Sep 30 17:51:53 s/hummid/humid/g Sep 30 17:51:53 GeneralAntilles meant: Hot and humid, cold and humid. Sep 30 17:52:55 I had no idea that simple video would end up on engadget. I would have taken another take, now it was just like, eh. let's do it and get it to youtube quickly. Sep 30 17:53:05 26C here, almost night ;) Sep 30 17:53:22 Someone needs to invent CTCP HEATPUMP Sep 30 17:53:46 konttori__: yeah, weird things happen lol Sep 30 17:54:01 konttori__, they're good at picking their stories. ;) Sep 30 17:54:17 Jaffa, AndrewFBlack : Haveng a themes section would make a lot of sense. Sep 30 17:55:35 we are going to make it so for pr1.1 or pr1.2 that in the choose theme selector, there will be a direct link to app man to list all available themes. Same also for sharing plugins, backgrounds and some other things. There will be a new api to do such filtering on appman. Sep 30 17:55:54 we might also have maemo.org weblink there, but it's undecided. Sep 30 17:56:02 wow konttori u're the man Sep 30 17:56:10 so user/themes cat is needed? Sep 30 17:56:13 ohgod Sharing Plugins. Sep 30 17:56:14 or does it already exist? Sep 30 17:56:25 konttori__, talking to teggie about a theme section of forums now Sep 30 17:56:40 great! Sep 30 17:56:49 konttori__, now you have a story to tell to your child when he/she grown up (not a very good one, but still) ;) Sep 30 17:56:57 heh! true! Sep 30 17:56:59 lol. true. Sep 30 17:57:17 javispedro: we don't need to add a new category. Sep 30 17:57:31 we just use text based filtering. Sep 30 17:57:37 CTCP CASH Sep 30 17:57:56 anyone got a link to wazds purposal on forums about design section of forums reggie wants to see it Sep 30 17:58:02 so, descriptions must include certain keywords, or package name must have some logic - undecided yet. Sep 30 17:58:18 AndrewFBlack: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=31177&highlight=design.maemo.org Sep 30 17:58:21 VDVsx: yeah, konttori__ can go like "you were on engadget when you were but ... (5?) months old! see here *plays the video and hears the crying*" Sep 30 17:58:21 It's bad enough having your parents pull out the old VHS. How much worse do you think it'll be for these YouTube kids to have them pull up a video with 50 million views. Sep 30 17:58:33 we are like *this* close to sales release and we are now listing the content to add to the pr releases, next starting to do the detailed implementation plans Sep 30 17:58:39 so, those are still open issues. Sep 30 17:59:03 konttori__, hopefully somebody gets on -community with all of these proposals. Sep 30 17:59:16 konttori__, the /opt thing and the insanity with the categories hasn't been going well so far. Sep 30 17:59:22 sure, will do once we have some meat on top of bones. Sep 30 17:59:53 well, see above, I told you guys when we had the bones and the announcement with the meat came some time later. Sep 30 18:00:13 insanity with categories? those were completely defined by community Sep 30 18:00:37 * konttori__ has to say that he does not like the split of categories. Sep 30 18:01:09 konttori__, yes, then Nokia decided to come in and add their own. Sep 30 18:01:13 "Sharing Plug-Ins" Sep 30 18:01:30 GeneralAntilles: But that one is dead now ;) Sep 30 18:01:39 Nokia Manager: Man, we need some Ovi integration in this shit. Let's add a Sharing Plug-Ins category. That'll be so rad! Sep 30 18:01:54 what, we haven't added sharing plugins category? Sep 30 18:01:57 (1 month later during random SDK review) Community: "Sharing Plug-Ins" WTF? Sep 30 18:02:16 GeneralAntilles: noone uses it anyway Sep 30 18:02:21 konttori__, these things should be discussed out in the open while the bones are still being put together. Sep 30 18:02:34 oh, like that. well, slipups happen. the people doing that didn't know of the agreement. Sep 30 18:02:42 konttori__, not once Nokia has already unilaterally decided on the structure and then needs the community to step in line. Sep 30 18:02:48 Remember, when sharing plugins, always wash thouroughly in hot water and bleach first, and then rinse thouroughly. Sep 30 18:02:50 yeah, I'd say the /opt issue was done a bit late in the game. Sep 30 18:02:59 well, if you have a comment on the proposal I gave, I'm all ears Sep 30 18:03:02 konttori__, right, that's why the whole "code over the wall" thing doesn't work. Sep 30 18:03:16 GeneralAntilles: that was the major failing in openmoko. Sep 30 18:03:28 well, we will bring code to the other side after sales start Sep 30 18:03:30 Though nokia at least seems to be developing actual software that works. Sep 30 18:03:32 or earlier Sep 30 18:03:56 SpeedEvil, unfortunately learning the whole "open source" thing has been a slow and arduous road. :\ Sep 30 18:04:35 GeneralAntilles: yeah. It's _really_ hard for companies to 'get it'. Sep 30 18:04:56 Nokia's better than most, but just when you think they're starting to understand something like this pops up. Sep 30 18:05:37 Especially when normally hidden stuff - like a manager three levels up deciding on something they wouldn't normally have input on, and being implemented - would be hidden in a normal release. Sep 30 18:05:44 konttori__, clearly certain things can't be discussed. But something harmless like a link to additional themes seems like it could be designed out in the open. Sep 30 18:05:45 And the WTF's would be all internal Sep 30 18:06:00 konttori__, then you don't have the community having to be in reaction all of the time. Sep 30 18:07:20 sure, I agree. And that is why we are really going to push a lot more to stage soon. Sep 30 18:07:46 also, on the pr plans, I'm pretty sure I'll write a blog outlining the plan until the end of the year for the applications framework. Sep 30 18:07:48 GeneralAntilles: you get it wrong! A link to themes will give Nokia all the competitive advantage they need to triumph over its overseas enemies, it has to be closed! :) Sep 30 18:08:06 Pushing is not the hard part, accepting contributions back in. Now that will be great. Sep 30 18:08:09 so, you guys will know at least 70% of the plans (you know, some surprises must remain ;) Sep 30 18:08:50 * frals is holding his breath for MMS being the surprise! Sep 30 18:08:56 X-Fade: that's why I once said Maemo should be based on Mer and not otherwise (sorry I know this doesn't make any sense in the current situation) Sep 30 18:09:32 anyway, the plan for the new api is that apps can make a dbus call to appman with a string. This will be used to filter packages with regexp. Thus, for your random app, you can get list of available extra content (e.g. canola themes, mediabox themes, and so forth) Sep 30 18:10:06 what about package tags? Sep 30 18:10:30 javispedro: Useless for searching. Sep 30 18:10:45 javispedro: great for describing a package. Sep 30 18:11:11 X-Plugin-For: canola ? Sep 30 18:11:40 sure, as said, this call is currently agreed with me, product management and UI management. Developers have not been quoted yet, so some meat will come to make more sense for this. Sep 30 18:12:17 but, mostly to not to unnecessarily move the eyes from the ball, we really will start the meat part of the discussions when the software is ready Sep 30 18:15:09 * luke-jr proposes companies start sticking to hardware development, and instead of developing software for the devices, post a $ total for "software development" the development community can "bid" on, and the owner community can vote for Sep 30 18:15:31 development projects with the most votes and lowest bid win the funding Sep 30 18:15:53 Yeah, that doesn't work for the government, why would it work here? Sep 30 18:16:34 design by committee, no thanks! Sep 30 18:16:37 why wouldn't it work? Sep 30 18:16:48 too different opinions Sep 30 18:17:16 the only difference from the current setup is the community gets paid and is responsible for software quality Sep 30 18:17:34 unless someone actually *likes* the in-house software? Sep 30 18:17:39 Design by committee, ugh ;( Sep 30 18:17:49 yea, not good Sep 30 18:18:05 you guys don't like the new desktop? Sep 30 18:18:10 what committee? Sep 30 18:18:15 it was designed and implemented in-house Sep 30 18:18:20 konttori__: love it Sep 30 18:18:21 I for one would prefer fvwm95! Sep 30 18:18:24 :) Sep 30 18:18:29 I really won't comment on some of the apps though. Sep 30 18:18:39 konttori__: I just want to run KDE myself Sep 30 18:18:41 heh ;) Sep 30 18:19:50 in such a system, I would probably throw all my votes on hardware support for Linux Sep 30 18:20:07 perhaps an integrated GPS guidance system Sep 30 18:20:18 luke-jr: You are just a too small market. Sep 30 18:20:21 * tigert likes the n900 software Sep 30 18:20:26 some stuff is crap Sep 30 18:20:43 but its not because of being designed so Sep 30 18:20:44 luke-jr: No sane company would make hardware just for your needs. Sep 30 18:20:58 dialogs, tigert Sep 30 18:21:03 X-Fade: then I would be a minority of the votes for software funding Sep 30 18:21:06 I think pretty much everything is at least ok, but not as good as I would like Sep 30 18:21:06 but rather of focusing effort on other thingd Sep 30 18:21:28 e.g. I like notes, but I love conboy Sep 30 18:21:40 I like the image viewer, but I love canola Sep 30 18:22:03 konttori: something to take care about in the next 6 months =) Sep 30 18:22:25 I mean before bugs start being marked "fixed in harmattan" Sep 30 18:22:49 notes is mostly from diablo Sep 30 18:22:59 RST38h: what for? they'll have to rewrite most apps in Qt. Sep 30 18:23:02 same with sketch Sep 30 18:39:40 Is it possible to get a package removed from extras-devel and maemo.org/packages? Sep 30 18:39:51 fiferboy: Yes Sep 30 18:39:54 And preferably, from everyone's memory :( Sep 30 18:40:00 Jaffa, tmo Design Forum Section http://talk.maemo.org/forumdisplay.php?f=46 Sep 30 18:40:08 fiferboy: What's up? Sep 30 18:40:11 X-Fade: Actually, it is not even in extras-devel right now Sep 30 18:40:21 My new package has a typo in the name :( Sep 30 18:40:23 fiferboy: Hey! fiferboys-porn is an awesome package Sep 30 18:40:40 X-Fade: personal-grps-mon should be personal-gprs-mon Sep 30 18:40:57 qwerty12_N810: Don't you ever get tired of being so cheeky? Sep 30 18:41:41 what is the point in not being cheeky? Sep 30 18:41:53 X-Fade: If I can have that removed, I will upload the corrected package Sep 30 18:41:55 fiferboy: I am #maemo's self-appointed prick, so no :) Sep 30 18:42:32 qwerty12_N810, hey! I'll fight you for it! Sep 30 18:42:33 I vote we demote qwerty12 and get a much less vocal/omnipresent prick! Sep 30 18:42:59 GeneralAntilles: STFU, you wannabe prick Sep 30 18:43:14 fiferboy: nice widget, cept for the typo :) Sep 30 18:43:23 Oh, right. Sep 30 18:43:41 frals: Thanks. I can't beleive I did that Sep 30 18:43:46 fiferboy, you still want some Bugzilla products. right? ;) Sep 30 18:44:10 GeneralAntilles: Yes. Preferably with the correct spelling :) Sep 30 18:44:24 countdown-home and personal-gprs-mon would be fantastic Sep 30 18:44:25 fiferboy: should've played it down with a "that's what they call it this side of the pond..." Sep 30 18:44:44 :D Sep 30 18:44:46 qwerty12_N810: Or invented a new acronym Sep 30 18:45:20 No, it means "General Radio Produced Signal" Sep 30 18:45:23 fiferboy, email this info to me at rabelg5 at http://gmail.com. http://wiki.maemo.org/Bugs:Adding_Extra_products Sep 30 18:46:27 AndrewFBlack: Cool :-) Sep 30 18:47:03 AndrewFBlack: With a proper proposal, asking for a redirect won't be a problem. Sep 30 18:47:48 X-Fade, want something in email or on forums? Sep 30 18:48:03 GeneralAntilles: Thanks! Sep 30 18:48:18 At least I was consistant. EVERY SINGLE location in every file Sep 30 18:48:32 AndrewFBlack: Something discussed in public. maemo-community or talk is fine. Sep 30 18:48:57 X-Fade, I'll put it outon maemo-community later today Sep 30 18:53:39 fiferboy: http://maemo.org/packages/view/personal-gprs-mon/ Sep 30 18:53:48 fiferboy: Just renamed the package ;) Sep 30 18:54:35 You are not making allowances for fiferboy's inability to spell inside the actual program, however :p Sep 30 18:54:50 I am uploading the fixed package! Sep 30 18:54:58 qwerty12_N810: No, I'm not renaming the files or altering the deb ;) Sep 30 18:55:24 As long as no one ever installs the old version, and we burn all IRC logs and internet transcripts, I am fine Sep 30 18:55:40 * GeneralAntilles heads over to Kinkos. Sep 30 18:55:42 Muahaha! Sep 30 18:56:50 Does going to a printing shop fill you up with that much excitement? Sep 30 18:56:56 No! GeneralAntilles, I was going to vote you head prick because you never irritate me :( Sep 30 18:57:00 fiferboy: I have a problem with personal-grps-mon, it tries to monitor gprs instead of my grps! Sep 30 18:57:06 GeneralAntilles: making Fixed In Fremantle tshirts? Sep 30 18:57:06 :P Sep 30 18:57:18 Stskeeps, Tim's job! Sep 30 18:57:36 Stskeeps: I want my Fixed in Mer T-Shirt. Sep 30 18:58:11 qwerty12_N810: if you get a FiF tshirt i have a bunch of mer stickers .. Sep 30 18:58:17 Fixed package is building Sep 30 18:58:34 X-Fade: Is there any way to push the correct package into extras-devel as soon as it is built? Sep 30 18:58:39 Or does that require a bribe? Sep 30 18:58:45 Hehe, RST38h's package is pretty lonely in the queue. http://maemo.org/packages/repository/qa/fremantle_extras-testing_non-free_armel/ Sep 30 18:58:54 fiferboy: That is all done automatically. Sep 30 18:59:40 non-free? Sep 30 18:59:52 Yep Sep 30 19:00:35 I have code ready to merge the queues into one view. Should make it better. Sep 30 19:00:38 btw, what about a Contrib section for packages that may never be built with the autobuilder but are OSS (think Fennec, Java, Mono,....) Sep 30 19:00:43 qhat's he doing there? Sep 30 19:00:56 timeless, being closed-source? Sep 30 19:01:54 Yeah, RST38h likes to write evil software :D Sep 30 19:01:55 javis: i thought we settled the fennec ossue Sep 30 19:02:09 timeless: ah, sorry. one fixed, two to go ;) Sep 30 19:02:20 out of curiosity, why could they not be built with autobuilder? Sep 30 19:02:33 konttori__: compiler issues. Sep 30 19:02:42 I don't know the specifics, but Jalimo had a lot of problems with sbox. Sep 30 19:02:43 konttori__: sdk used too old compiler. Sep 30 19:02:58 cannot we upgrade that? Sep 30 19:03:00 and sbox using busybox .. Sep 30 19:03:16 X-Fade: wha? Sep 30 19:03:29 X-Fade: Thanks for the fix! :) Sep 30 19:03:41 X-Fade: sbox isn't a device ;) Sep 30 19:03:46 [sbox-FREMANTLE_X86: ~] > ash --> bash: ash: command not found Sep 30 19:04:04 qwerty12_N810: Well sorry, scratchbox isms etc. Sep 30 19:04:27 for example, jalimo is also using their own .deb packaging tools. Sep 30 19:05:02 Although, if it did use busybox, it'd make lcuk happy and means he would have slightly more hair... :p Sep 30 19:05:02 and OE as build system :P Sep 30 19:05:04 Is anyone here able to rename talk.maemo.org threads? Sep 30 19:05:13 fiferboy: you also made the typo on tmo? Sep 30 19:05:23 heh. Sep 30 19:05:28 javispedro: I made it ABSOLUTELY EVERYWHERE :( Sep 30 19:05:33 The model of consistancy Sep 30 19:05:38 or a jedi mind trick. Sep 30 19:05:42 :) Sep 30 19:05:45 javispedro: I'd just put them in non-free and add source ;) Sep 30 19:06:05 fiferboy, hit the report button on your post. Sep 30 19:06:18 GeneralAntilles: :) Sep 30 19:06:24 X-Fade, well, ok for me :) Sep 30 19:07:01 GeneralAntilles: This is ONLY to be used to report spam, advertising messages, and problematic (harassment, fighting, or rude) posts. Sep 30 19:07:19 it was rude! Sep 30 19:07:31 I guess it is an advertising message... Sep 30 19:07:33 fiferboy, it notifies the mods, too. Sep 30 19:07:36 The good kind Sep 30 19:07:36 "or a post made by fiferboy" Sep 30 19:07:38 generally risky promiscuous services Sep 30 19:07:44 fiferboy, slightly obnoxious, but it will get you a response fast. ;) Sep 30 19:07:54 GeneralAntilles: Okay, I'll risk it Sep 30 19:08:20 fiferboy, I don't see anybody here or on AIM handy, so. . . . Sep 30 19:08:36 GeneralAntilles: Thanks, I sent a report :) Sep 30 19:08:59 But I'll blame you if I get banned for life from all maemo and maemo related websites and activities Sep 30 19:09:12 Fair enough. ;) Sep 30 19:09:14 GeneralAntilles: AIM? No surprise that no one is online there... Sep 30 19:09:58 I just use the report buttons to send spam to the mods Sep 30 19:10:19 eventualy one of them will be interested in \/14gr4 Sep 30 19:10:32 Isn't the point of spam to reach a large audience as possible? Sep 30 19:10:45 Targeted spam is the new wave Sep 30 19:10:47 I like very targeted audiences Sep 30 19:11:01 maemo mods totaly have size and performace issues Sep 30 19:11:04 in bed Sep 30 19:11:16 Proteous: c'mon, they're mods? Are they really likely to be getting any? Sep 30 19:11:20 *. Sep 30 19:11:22 heh Sep 30 19:13:00 Hopefully in a few short minutes our long, international nightmare will be over - my GPRS typo Sep 30 19:13:31 fiferboy: And why is it GPRS counter anyway? Sep 30 19:13:48 :( Sep 30 19:13:59 fiferboy: Cellular data counter? :) Sep 30 19:14:02 I hope I haven't made another mistake, but that is the data it is counting from the system Sep 30 19:14:03 ~flashing Sep 30 19:14:04 hmm... flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware Sep 30 19:14:07 X-Fade: He's in Canada. They haven't heard of 3G yet... Sep 30 19:14:11 fiferboy: you dput over gprs? Sep 30 19:14:35 :D Sep 30 19:14:37 qwerty12_N810: We will have 3G within the next two decades! Sep 30 19:15:19 :) Sep 30 19:15:27 Of course, it will be entirely controlled by three large companies that price fix way above the global rates... Sep 30 19:16:15 what is a global rate? =) Sep 30 19:16:28 New merged QA queue: http://maemo.org/packages/repository/qa/fremantle_extras-testing/ Sep 30 19:16:36 Now RST38h's app isn't alone anymore ;) Sep 30 19:16:56 I liked being able to hiss at RST38h :( Sep 30 19:17:03 lol Sep 30 19:17:10 RST38h: 50% less than Canadians pay Sep 30 19:17:19 eh. Sep 30 19:17:58 countdown-home needs four more thumbs up! Sep 30 19:18:02 X-Fade: is every minor update going to require 10 pts etc to get into extras? Sep 30 19:18:14 countdow-home was neat Sep 30 19:18:22 RST38h: For now, it is. Sep 30 19:18:22 * qwerty12_N810 gives countdown-home the middle finger Sep 30 19:18:33 X-Fade: Oh. Trouble. Sep 30 19:18:37 RST38h, 10 will be a lot less when we actually have testers. Sep 30 19:19:02 RST38h: When we have 10M users, I expect there not to be any problems ;) Sep 30 19:19:23 qwerty12_N810: trouble maker Sep 30 19:19:27 dunno... Sep 30 19:19:47 And the 10 is all open for debate. But let's see what happens when the device is in the shops. Sep 30 19:20:05 Can be set to 50 too, you know :) Sep 30 19:20:45 X-Fade: Is there a ten day quarentine in place right now? Sep 30 19:21:08 X-Fade: That threat doesn't work so well at this moment in time when Nokia would like Extras to be populated ;) Sep 30 19:21:08 fiferboy: that is not active yet. Still have to finish a bit of code. Sep 30 19:21:21 qwerty12_N810: It can be 1 too ;) Sep 30 19:21:43 Yes please Sep 30 19:21:47 X-Fade: How are things promoted to extras right now? Automatically on some criteria or does the user choose to promote again? Sep 30 19:22:10 fiferboy: promotion is unlocked when there is enough karma. Sep 30 19:22:19 X-Fade: Ah. Thanks. Sep 30 19:22:21 fiferboy: you then can decide to promote to extras or not. Sep 30 19:23:13 will there also be a way to bypass the karma/quarentine period to upload critical security fixes and stuff like that? Sep 30 19:23:33 all this data counter stuff is worthless. We all know that what your phone things you transfered and what the phone complany is going to bill you for are totaly unrealated Sep 30 19:23:45 Mek: Yes. Sep 30 19:23:49 Proteous, hey, just like the utility company! Sep 30 19:23:57 heh Sep 30 19:24:17 Proteous: yeah. Sep 30 19:24:24 Mek: You will be able to select some options when promoting. (soon) Sep 30 19:24:31 okay, good Sep 30 19:24:52 Proteous: I had a nice byte counter on my ppp transfers - which matched perfectly with what the utility reported for the first hundred meg. Sep 30 19:25:05 Proteous: then there was a 50p unexplained loss. Sep 30 19:25:20 Proteous: Of course if I ask them, the response will be 'we don't support linux'. Sep 30 19:25:59 lol Sep 30 19:26:25 I'm just remembering the story of Adam Savage of Mythbusters fame and using his iphone in canada Sep 30 19:26:52 he was keeping a very close eye on his data meter and somehow managed to get billed for double the data usage as his phone said Sep 30 19:27:17 which put him way over his limit and he got charged like $1500 or something Sep 30 19:28:04 Sounds about right for Canada... Sep 30 19:28:11 lol Sep 30 19:28:45 hi, is it only me of is the garage SVN down? Sep 30 19:28:57 lizardo: try again Sep 30 19:29:08 * luke-jr wonders whatever happened to ensuring all billing was authorized by the payer. Sep 30 19:29:31 X-Fade: worked now :) Sep 30 19:29:34 theres been crazy shit with roaming data bills Sep 30 19:29:37 if further network use will incur charges, they should redirect to an authorization page portal Sep 30 19:29:41 tks Sep 30 19:29:42 qwerty12_N810: One more smart remark about Canada and I'll not let you test my apps for me anymore! Sep 30 19:30:30 fiferboy: Thanks! Sep 30 19:30:34 luke-jr: Are you _crazy_? Sep 30 19:30:34 luke-jr: that might mean people don't get billed huge amounts of money. Sep 30 19:30:40 Canada. Meh. Sep 30 19:30:42 qwerty12_N810: :| Sep 30 19:30:54 SpeedEvil: well, I dream of reasonable data plans too Sep 30 19:30:55 * RST38h yawns and suggest using prepaid Sep 30 19:30:57 5 GB is pathetic Sep 30 19:31:04 like someone had a minilaptop with gsm modem prefer the stronger cell network accross the border Sep 30 19:31:04 This way nobody can bill you more than you pay Sep 30 19:31:12 RST38h: they can. Sep 30 19:31:13 without the user realizing Sep 30 19:31:22 no they can't Sep 30 19:31:31 RST38h: They can charge you shitty rates though Sep 30 19:31:34 RST38h: companies can do anything Sep 30 19:31:39 qwerty: this they can Sep 30 19:31:44 RST38h: and generally get away with it unless you have $$$ for a lawyer Sep 30 19:32:23 qwerty: but I can just switch company Sep 30 19:32:55 Prepaid means you run out of credit, and it stops working. Sep 30 19:33:02 Which does limit your bill. Sep 30 19:33:08 Speed: Correct. Sep 30 19:33:14 I cannot transfer over 900m more without putting in more money Sep 30 19:33:24 RST38h: True. Until they all have shitty rates :) Sep 30 19:33:25 Speed: And if stops working too often I change the provider Sep 30 19:33:30 yeah Sep 30 19:33:47 RST38h: the suckyness is that often it's crap per byte charges compared with a contract Sep 30 19:34:26 Speed: Well, don't use crap deals Sep 30 19:34:47 RST38h: True. Until they all have shitty rates :) <-- I thought I asked you to stop talking about Canada! Sep 30 19:35:00 :D Sep 30 19:35:22 fiferboy: Your cryptosocialist government should smite them Sep 30 19:35:24 fiferboy: Ah, now this is one thing (surprisingly) not limited to Canada :p Sep 30 19:36:02 :) Sep 30 19:37:09 RST38h: _there_are_no_good_prepaid_rates_ Sep 30 19:37:18 Speed: There are Sep 30 19:37:30 Countries vary. Sep 30 19:37:42 I'm paying 15 quid for a gig that does not expire. - pay-as-you-go. Sep 30 19:37:55 If I pay the same per month, I would get 3 gig/month. Sep 30 19:38:13 Sounds decent Sep 30 19:38:25 Unless it is on top of some hideous voice package Sep 30 19:38:44 well - that's another annoyance. Sep 30 19:39:07 You can only get that PAYG plan on a plan that does not allow texts or voice Sep 30 19:39:08 ATT had an unlimited plan for $20 a month for a while Sep 30 19:39:10 But... Sep 30 19:39:26 tmobile flexpay had a reasonable unlimited data plan Sep 30 19:39:59 I pay $15/mo for mine Sep 30 19:40:00 qwerty12_N810: You act as though you had a bad experience with data rates where you live ;) Sep 30 19:40:29 I just have a bad experience with Canadians Sep 30 19:41:05 You've probably never met a Canadian Sep 30 19:41:14 qwert12_N180, its not just you Sep 30 19:41:15 heh Sep 30 19:41:25 Blame Canada!! Sep 30 19:41:34 fiferboy: True. What can I say? I guess I am lucky after all! Sep 30 19:41:48 penguinbait: I don't know what you are talkin' aboot Sep 30 19:42:08 I'll meet ya at the beer store Sep 30 19:42:23 eh Sep 30 19:42:31 burrrrrrp! Sep 30 19:51:44 * RST38h is restless now Sep 30 19:52:01 All the packages compiled, SlideRule fixed for the new screen size, and no upload =( Sep 30 19:53:28 no upload? Sep 30 19:55:15 cant dput to extras-devel Sep 30 19:55:19 the thinkie with the little slidy box is stuck Sep 30 19:55:34 ah, I see. Sep 30 19:55:36 :P Sep 30 19:55:42 I tried the clicky thing on the glowie round thing but it did nothing Sep 30 20:04:26 Proteous: you are supposed to lick it Sep 30 20:04:33 hmm Sep 30 20:04:34 okay Sep 30 20:04:41 Wow! Sep 30 20:04:47 Clearly that's the new innovation. Sep 30 20:04:51 multi-taste screens. Sep 30 20:04:58 nope, didn't work, although I did get a taste of last nights dinner Sep 30 20:09:23 wazd: Around? Sep 30 20:09:46 fingers, tongues, what are we going to put next all over screens? Sep 30 20:10:26 It does have a vibration feature ;) Sep 30 20:10:27 ew Sep 30 20:10:32 fiferboy, they're open. Sep 30 20:10:49 GeneralAntilles: Thanks! :D Sep 30 20:11:12 bally, my Toppy has just gone tits up Sep 30 20:11:49 * lardman wonders how he typed "y" rather than "s" Sep 30 20:11:51 * GeneralAntilles hits lardman with the ceremonial beating trout again. Sep 30 20:12:11 What's a topps? Sep 30 20:12:19 GeneralAntilles: you reckon you'll get that on the flight? Sep 30 20:12:23 What's a balls? ;) Sep 30 20:12:32 topfield, hard disk recorder Sep 30 20:12:36 lardman, getting on isn't an issue. Getting back is if my passport doesn't show up. Sep 30 20:12:37 Something you lack Sep 30 20:12:56 * GeneralAntilles hits ping pong balls at qwerty12_N810. Sep 30 20:13:25 * qwerty12_N810 steals them Sep 30 20:13:42 * GeneralAntilles activates the remote detonator. Sep 30 20:14:09 * lardman considers buying a new media centre Sep 30 20:14:15 Sunshine State my ass... Sep 30 20:14:26 heh Sep 30 20:14:33 before his wife kills him because she'll miss True Blood next week Sep 30 20:14:44 http://openandroidalliance.com/ Sep 30 20:15:01 specially http://openandroidalliance.com/about/ Sep 30 20:15:11 javispedro: But I thought it was already open?!!!! Sep 30 20:15:18 ask GAN :) Sep 30 20:16:16 Maemo is to Mer what Android is to ... Androider? Sep 30 20:16:35 Funny though, xda-developers have been cooking up WinMo roms for years now and MS haven't batted an eyelid AFAIK Sep 30 20:17:55 Because there are actual smart people working in MS. Sep 30 20:18:00 lardman, clearly you need to build an i7 rig. Sep 30 20:24:33 Yay, my thread has been renamed! Sep 30 20:24:49 GeneralAntilles: yeah Sep 30 20:24:56 maemo can support python??? Sep 30 20:25:03 yes!!! Sep 30 20:25:04 :P Sep 30 20:25:08 awesome! Sep 30 20:25:16 nono. awesome!!! Sep 30 20:25:30 jajajaja Sep 30 20:25:58 is already realesed? Sep 30 20:26:34 pymaemo.garage.maemo.org i think Sep 30 20:26:39 The only reason MS doesn't crack down on third party ROMs is because if they did they would loose 90% of their users Sep 30 20:27:35 Now if only my version 0.2-3 were imported to extras-devel so I could promote... Sep 30 20:27:54 It is sitting in "Build Succeeded" land Sep 30 20:28:12 Also - 100% of the third party ROM users have an actual legal copy of MS on the device originally surely Sep 30 20:28:45 anyway, the only issue google had was the redistribution of some non free parts like maps Sep 30 20:28:47 Not to mean that MS wants their products to be used no whater at what cost. monetizing will come later. Sep 30 20:32:55 lardman, get one of the Gigabyte MiniATX P55 boards. Sep 30 20:33:03 lardman, drop in an i5 or i7 Lynnfield. Sep 30 20:41:43 gets expensive though Sep 30 20:41:47 + quiet case, etc Sep 30 20:41:52 re Sep 30 20:41:57 lardman, sure, but it'll last a while. ;) Sep 30 20:42:01 I am tempted, but really need to get up and running before the weekend Sep 30 20:42:02 :( Sep 30 20:42:18 More expensive to buy brick'n'mortar. :P Sep 30 20:42:38 what about dvb-t cards? Sep 30 20:42:59 that was always the big problem Sep 30 20:43:03 Dunno, I do ATSC/ClearQAM over here. Sep 30 20:43:17 is that cable? Sep 30 20:43:27 bittorrent+rss FTW Sep 30 20:43:31 ATSC is digital broadcast, ClearQAM is cable. Sep 30 20:43:38 ah ok Sep 30 20:43:42 Proteous: yeah Sep 30 20:44:00 slightly less legal though Sep 30 20:44:14 am considering Humax 9300T, mainly as the wife wants stuff recorded next week Sep 30 20:44:19 ~£170 Sep 30 20:44:30 wow, that's better then 0day Sep 30 20:44:32 considerably cheaper than a build your own Sep 30 20:44:35 that's like -7day Sep 30 20:44:54 if you can record next weeks shows today you will be a scene god Sep 30 20:45:09 lol Sep 30 20:45:16 lardman consider to buy a dreambox Sep 30 20:45:41 but dont know if it will work in england Sep 30 20:45:51 woglinde: they should Sep 30 20:46:06 that's sat only isn't it? Sep 30 20:46:09 http://www.dream-multimedia-tv.de/en Sep 30 20:46:12 dboxes work nicely... Sep 30 20:46:12 nope Sep 30 20:46:16 dual tuner Sep 30 20:46:25 could be dvb-t cable sat Sep 30 20:46:31 what combination you want Sep 30 20:46:36 qwerty hehe Sep 30 20:46:47 where did you get a dbox? Sep 30 20:46:50 I have 3 Sep 30 20:46:55 2 cabel one sat Sep 30 20:47:02 http://www.internetnews.com/infra/article.php/3841671/US+Cedes+ICANN+Control+to+the+World.htm Sep 30 20:47:16 THE END IS NEAR Sep 30 20:47:29 -= REPENT! =- Sep 30 20:47:31 my thoughs exactly Sep 30 20:47:33 DRINK YOUR OVALTINE Sep 30 20:47:35 does sat need separate cable to terrestrial? Sep 30 20:47:38 lardman dreambox runs linux and software is build with oe Sep 30 20:47:42 woglinde: Don't have one anymore, but I had a cable one from eBay once... Sep 30 20:47:49 oh right, that's quite tempting then :) Sep 30 20:48:23 lard what you mean with cable to terrestrial? Sep 30 20:48:40 I have one aerial which does both sat & terrestrial Sep 30 20:48:41 cable and dvb-t has same connector Sep 30 20:48:48 no cable though Sep 30 20:48:52 never heard of that Sep 30 20:48:57 "cable" that is Sep 30 20:49:02 I live in a block of flats Sep 30 20:49:14 *sigh* Sep 30 20:49:59 but who, which are the fortunate nations in control of the icann now? Sep 30 20:50:01 sp I'd need a 7025 for 2x TVB-T? Sep 30 20:50:13 s/sp/so Sep 30 20:50:24 s/TVB/DVB Sep 30 20:50:28 why do I bother!? Sep 30 20:50:38 :$ Sep 30 20:51:22 lardman yes or dm 8000 Sep 30 20:51:32 which cost more Sep 30 20:51:48 hm I should change my profession to salesman for nerds Sep 30 20:51:52 wow, super expensive anyway Sep 30 20:51:57 >£450 Sep 30 20:52:11 sure Sep 30 20:52:15 for 7025 Sep 30 20:52:21 n900 cost nearly the same Sep 30 20:52:37 yeah, but I can buy a PC and stick it under the TV for less and it can do more Sep 30 20:52:39 hm still 450 for 7025? Sep 30 20:52:41 hm Sep 30 20:52:41 different class of device Sep 30 20:52:51 I think you can get it cheaper on ebay Sep 30 20:52:53 let me see Sep 30 20:53:12 maybee the softcames still held the prices up Sep 30 20:53:30 probably low volume too Sep 30 20:54:07 hm 360 euros Sep 30 20:54:13 on ebay in germany Sep 30 20:54:43 2xsat Sep 30 20:55:27 still pretty dear when converted to £, plus that's sats not dvb-t Sep 30 20:56:00 http://cgi.ebay.de/Dreambox-DM-7025-Plus-PVR-Twin-DVB-T-Tuner-DM7025_W0QQitemZ360193236357QQcmdZViewItemQQptZDE_Elektronik_Computer_TV_Video_Elektronik_TV_Receiver?hash=item53dd309d85&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14 Sep 30 20:56:19 you could bye it on sunday Sep 30 20:56:22 haha Sep 30 20:56:26 args buy Sep 30 20:56:38 lol yeah Sep 30 21:00:23 I wonder how long usb dvb-t tuners would last running all the time Sep 30 21:00:29 as compared with pci(-e) ones Sep 30 21:00:32 dont know Sep 30 21:02:24 wouldnt that depend on how well they are made? Sep 30 21:02:48 i'd guess the usb would be made out of cheap plastic components and would melt Sep 30 21:05:10 So, maemo5 will officially do m$ exchange syncing for the calendar, which means one can use it with google calendar, but apparently, this goes only one way, doesn't it? My dad tried it on the iphone, and events you enter on the device do not get synced back to google. Will this also be the case with the n900? CalDav on the other hand does two-way syncing, will the n900 calendar support that? Sep 30 21:06:15 hm who gives his calendar voluntary to the fbi and cia? Sep 30 21:06:44 woglinde: suggest something better. Sep 30 21:07:07 better in which case? Sep 30 21:07:12 paper and pen Sep 30 21:07:19 works since long Sep 30 21:07:25 faster Sep 30 21:07:29 MaceN8x0: yeah Sep 30 21:07:31 always available Sep 30 21:07:40 no power is needing Sep 30 21:07:49 no internetconnection Sep 30 21:07:54 I want my calendar, the same one, synced "real time", on my mobile phone, on the net (so that it's accessible from any machine), and on my lap top. Sep 30 21:08:09 and I don't want to carry around a book, if I have a smart phone Sep 30 21:08:15 setup your own funambol server Sep 30 21:08:47 sounds interesting Sep 30 21:08:59 "free 90 day" ?? Sep 30 21:09:04 ???? Sep 30 21:09:09 there is gpl variant Sep 30 21:09:13 I'm guessing that for using their servers Sep 30 21:09:19 right Sep 30 21:09:28 but thats the same problem as google Sep 30 21:09:42 sure Sep 30 21:10:21 wonder why the will prison the first "terrotist" which planed is attacks with google calendar Sep 30 21:10:31 args s/why/when Sep 30 21:11:01 I doubt the fbi and cia are interested in my schedule. Sep 30 21:11:24 but thanks, setting up my own funambol server looks like a valid option Sep 30 21:11:50 shapeshifter -> https://www.forge.funambol.org/download/ Sep 30 21:12:05 re florian Sep 30 21:12:25 Shapeshifter there are lot of people which would be intressted in your calendar Sep 30 21:12:28 believe me Sep 30 21:12:29 woglinde: sure, I'm reading already Sep 30 21:12:45 woglinde: apart from that, I doubt google gives them away Sep 30 21:12:52 lol Sep 30 21:13:07 anyone tried that funambol? looks pretty decent at first glance Sep 30 21:13:14 woglinde: and in my country, the internet is not (yet) cached and logged by the gov. Sep 30 21:13:15 mabybe happens like in : "when sysadmin rule the world", do you know it??? Sep 30 21:15:01 woglinde: well, so using funambol is fine. great. Do you know if the maemo5 calendar by nokia supports it? I kinda like the look of that calendar. Sep 30 21:15:17 hmm Hauppauge WinTV Nova-TD 500 Dual digital DVB-T PCI TV Tuner card £55, not bad Sep 30 21:15:25 re Sep 30 21:15:27 Shapeshifter dont know but maybee some one will start a connector Sep 30 21:16:00 lardman bye two usb sticks for the same price Sep 30 21:16:05 args buy Sep 30 21:16:08 damnit Sep 30 21:16:27 yeah, just not sure how reliable running usb sticks all the time will be Sep 30 21:17:20 woglinde: do you have experience with funambol? If yes, is it updated often and does the config change frequently so that messing with it is required often? because I would rather dislike that. Sep 30 21:17:47 Shapeshifter hm sorry Sep 30 21:17:55 didnt use it yet Sep 30 21:18:05 ok Sep 30 21:18:10 but as you see it has some community Sep 30 21:18:19 well it looks decent. I'll get into it when I get my n900. Sep 30 21:19:09 has anyone gotten a ship notice for their pre-order n900? Sep 30 21:23:58 barrelfish hm Sep 30 21:25:24 can we add it to oe? ;) Sep 30 21:25:35 lol Sep 30 21:25:47 it is a os Sep 30 21:25:49 an Sep 30 21:25:57 from ms and eth zurich Sep 30 21:33:31 mh. funambol is all java Sep 30 21:33:51 it spawns like 50 java processes just when starting the server Sep 30 21:33:59 hehe Sep 30 21:35:45 and it's a mess. doesn't attend to linux standarts at all. Sep 30 21:35:46 :| Sep 30 21:35:58 all because of java. it's so damn portable Sep 30 21:36:05 it's so damn broken >.> Sep 30 21:36:11 sorry Sep 30 21:37:55 woglinde: so you're against using gmail as well? Sep 30 21:38:00 or any google service for that matter? Sep 30 21:39:37 woglinde: ah btw I just remembered Zimbra is a pretty nice server for mailing/calendar, that sort of stuff Sep 30 21:39:55 haven't used it myself but heard good things about it. now owned by yahoo... Sep 30 21:40:23 simula: They aren't shipping yet. Not until at least Maemo Summit, I'm sure. Sep 30 21:40:36 Shapeshifter yeah zimbra Sep 30 21:40:49 openexchange could work too Sep 30 21:40:55 but some extenders cost Sep 30 21:41:05 thanks zerojay Sep 30 21:41:06 yes I have my own mailserver Sep 30 21:46:00 yay the "apple calendar server" runs fine on linux, written in python, open source, and for that specific purpose. Sep 30 21:46:04 looks pretty. Sep 30 21:46:48 but if I leave google calendar, I would just as well leave gmail. But then again, I find all the google services very neat. Also like the fact that I can use my gmail address for jabber just like that. Sep 30 21:47:33 zerojay: First version of Hermes about to hit extras-devel autobuilder Sep 30 21:48:25 hahahaa ankh-morpork Sep 30 21:48:57 Jaffa: Excellent. Sep 30 21:49:34 I'm glad I work with open source friendly people at my game company. Sep 30 21:49:42 hm have to go Sep 30 21:50:11 zerojay: First time I've built a C/Python hybrid package from scratch (rather than using mud); and you'll be the first non-Jaffa person to test it. Sep 30 21:50:18 So, please be gentle :) Sep 30 21:50:33 Got a pixel artist to do the new icon for the cell bandwidth applet... got a sound designer working on doing alarm sounds for it... hehe. :) Sep 30 21:50:40 Jaffa: No prob. :) Sep 30 21:50:42 Heh, cool Sep 30 21:50:47 Make sure they're in AUTHORS :) Sep 30 21:51:08 I guess I'll ask fiferboy about that then. Sep 30 21:51:37 Like I said on Twitter earlier... from Brainstorm to full package in 3 days... not too shabby. :) Sep 30 21:51:53 We are some badass mofos. :D Sep 30 21:52:03 What other simplistic widgets are we missing? Sep 30 21:53:14 Coordinating this thing was fun... time to get more projects off the ground. :) Sep 30 21:53:23 Now that I'm out, I'd say the "Community Council Tracking" widget. :P Sep 30 21:54:00 lol Sep 30 21:54:23 zerojay: A _24_ style countdown timer. Complete with sfx. Sep 30 21:54:38 countdown-home? Sep 30 21:54:47 Oh. Sep 30 21:54:50 LED style? Sep 30 21:55:07 Hehe, I had a 24 ringtone on my old 6682 for a while. Sep 30 21:55:11 zerojay: Yeah. countdown-home isn't useful when being geeky. Sep 30 21:55:18 * GeneralAntilles 's granola bars turned out the consistency of cookies. Sep 30 21:55:20 * Jaffa has a Cisco VoIP phone ringtone on his current device Sep 30 21:55:27 i.e. as used in 24 :) Sep 30 21:55:28 Works well. Sep 30 21:55:37 Incoming SMS is a TNG communicator chirp Sep 30 21:55:50 silly low profile graphics cards that have full height pci back plates Sep 30 21:56:13 GeneralAntilles: been baking? Sep 30 21:56:19 we do have food over in Europe Sep 30 21:56:39 lardman, failing @. Sep 30 21:56:44 Baking in my nemesis. Sep 30 21:56:55 Bah. FAILED Sep 30 21:57:00 like the blackbirds? Sep 30 21:57:53 or was that s/in/is ? ;) Sep 30 21:59:15 lardman, ewgross. Sep 30 21:59:18 Yeah, s/in/is/ Sep 30 21:59:53 hmm ~£200 + CPU, RAM, HDD Sep 30 22:01:36 lardman, what CPU/RAM/HD? Sep 30 22:01:59 no idea yet, just totting up the case + mb + DVB-T + video card cosrs Sep 30 22:02:08 Ah Sep 30 22:02:09 I see. Sep 30 22:02:20 Where you ordering from? Sep 30 22:02:20 might make life easier to get a full size case really Sep 30 22:02:30 looking on ebuyer atm Sep 30 22:02:34 but no idea Sep 30 22:02:46 though need to get the parts tomorrow or next day to avoid death Sep 30 22:02:52 Well, I was gonna look and you're definitely not getting it from Newegg. ;) Sep 30 22:03:02 no, not over here Sep 30 22:06:36 £422.42 for i5 + Gigabyte MicroATX P55 + 1TB Maxtor Sep 30 22:06:36 hello! Sep 30 22:07:00 ouch Sep 30 22:07:16 is it true, that Maemo 3x, 4x doesn't support Qt3? Sep 30 22:07:20 lardman, I dunno how you guys pay those prices for electronics. Sep 30 22:07:26 it doesn't need that much uumph, will only be used to play movies and record TV Sep 30 22:07:31 painfully ;) Sep 30 22:07:53 lol: http://www.ebuyer.com/product/160545 Sep 30 22:07:57 zerojay: Build OK. Hermes is on its way to extras-devel. To get info on what it's doing, run /opt/hermes/bin/hermes from the X Terminal since feedback is limited to progress bar & # of contacts updated atm Sep 30 22:08:01 how big is your suitcase? ;) Sep 30 22:08:42 GeneralAntilles: Pound's weak at the moment, which isn't helping either. How much is that in USD? Sep 30 22:09:04 Jaffa, I could build an i5 machine for $800 Sep 30 22:09:04 a quid is 1.81 or so IIRC Sep 30 22:09:12 $1.6:£1 Sep 30 22:09:15 Jaffa: Guess I'll make a backup just in case. :) Sep 30 22:09:22 zerojay: Probably wise :) Sep 30 22:09:35 Oh - it's gone down. Sep 30 22:09:36 :/ Sep 30 22:09:37 2.0GHz Mac mini is $599 Sep 30 22:09:38 GeneralAntilles: I meant how much would you *pay* for such a mini? Sep 30 22:09:41 Right Sep 30 22:09:42 Ouhc Sep 30 22:09:50 No sales tax. Sep 30 22:10:00 http://www.x-rates.com/d/USD/GBP/graph120.html Sep 30 22:10:08 It was heading up last I saw it. Sep 30 22:13:09 You guys should probably just start throwing yourself into the ocean until they lower prices. :P Sep 30 22:13:10 * lardman decides it probably isn't worth the effort to build something this time Sep 30 22:13:17 pah Sep 30 22:13:41 prices will go up as they'll raise taxes as fewer people are paying tax, and round we go again Sep 30 22:13:52 blood Labour scumbags Sep 30 22:13:55 bloody Sep 30 22:14:15 pardon my French Sep 30 22:14:34 Like The Matrix says... Sep 30 22:14:42 Swearing in French is like wiping your ass with silk. Sep 30 22:14:49 lol Sep 30 22:15:11 bbs Sep 30 22:15:32 well if nothing else, it's good to see that Linux compatible DVB-T tuners are reasonably cheap now: e.g. http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/Hauppauge_WinTV_Nova-T_500_PCI (£55) Sep 30 22:15:39 lardman: You have to convince them to stop spending before there's a hope of getting them to stop taxing. Sep 30 22:16:00 VAT is already at the lowest EU allows :) Sep 30 22:16:01 yeah, no way to do that though, until they lose power and then we'll still have to pay of their debts Sep 30 22:16:13 lol Sep 30 22:16:17 You guys fucked yourselves so hard. Sep 30 22:16:22 That the EU ALLOWS. Sep 30 22:16:22 Ha! Sep 30 22:16:25 that was a mistake, lost VAT revenues and realistically it didn't increase spending Sep 30 22:16:27 GeneralAntilles: It's not like we're any better. Sep 30 22:16:42 derf, well, at least there's no EU dictating our sales tax. Sep 30 22:16:56 lardman, yeah I get the impression there isn't much opposition to raising it back to where it was Sep 30 22:16:57 GeneralAntilles: Why? It's just another elected body. Sep 30 22:17:02 derf, and if I can't take solace in my feelings of superiority over Europeans what have I got? ;) Sep 30 22:17:08 ShadowJK: bit late now though Sep 30 22:17:13 GeneralAntilles: Cheaper electronic goods? Sep 30 22:17:17 lol Sep 30 22:17:27 Oh, right, those. Sep 30 22:17:30 * GeneralAntilles chuckles to himself. Sep 30 22:17:54 my relatives in the US apparently pay about as much in tax as I do :-) Sep 30 22:18:02 derf, really, when it comes down to it, we've at least still got our weapons. Sep 30 22:18:13 GeneralAntilles: Fat lot of good they'll do us. Sep 30 22:18:21 and you're not bothered who you piss off using them ;) Sep 30 22:18:31 You're gonna go after the Feds with a few semi-automatic rifles? Sep 30 22:19:21 you also have the dubious honour of almost everyone on Earth hating you for either going in with guns blazing, or not listening to anything Sep 30 22:19:28 though that is probably Bush's fault Sep 30 22:19:33 You might have a chance if they hadn't effectively repealed Posse Comitatus. Sep 30 22:19:37 derf, what, they gonna use the military against us? Sep 30 22:19:37 blame bush/canada Sep 30 22:19:48 GeneralAntilles: Bush certainly planned to. Sep 30 22:19:53 mavhc: lol @ Canada jibe Sep 30 22:19:53 Where by "Bush" I mean "Cheney". Sep 30 22:19:57 I wish them the best of luck. Sep 30 22:20:09 the pupetmaster has become the puppet Sep 30 22:20:20 lardman, it's so popular to hate Americans nowadays that even Americans do it. Sep 30 22:20:32 :) Sep 30 22:20:48 I saw a wonderful editorial in the Times today, let me see if I can find it for you Sep 30 22:21:10 Commie Rag Sep 30 22:21:37 which the times? Sep 30 22:21:45 no, that's the Sun, and even they are voting Tory now Sep 30 22:21:45 Does it matter? ;) Sep 30 22:21:56 mavhc: there is online one Sep 30 22:22:02 The Times, all in the name Sep 30 22:22:11 none of this New York or other out of the way places in the name Sep 30 22:22:11 Pfft. It's a centre-right broadsheet owned and run by a US/Australian. Not much commie about them Sep 30 22:22:44 Jaffa, it's all about what you define as "center" Sep 30 22:22:45 Jaffa: Your "centre-right" is our "communists". Sep 30 22:22:57 lardman: http://timesonline.typepad.com/comment/2009/09/how-far-do-you-have-to-drive-for-a-mcdonalds.html ? Sep 30 22:23:07 derf: that is true :) Sep 30 22:23:08 derf: That's cos your country is seriously FUBAR Sep 30 22:23:16 :-p Sep 30 22:23:25 Jaffa: no, was about Obama being over educated and over-estimating the abilities of his populace Sep 30 22:23:33 Jaffa: You're preacing to the choir. Sep 30 22:23:38 *preaching Sep 30 22:23:42 http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article6854498.ece Sep 30 22:23:44 derf++ Sep 30 22:24:00 Jaffa, only I suspect we're disagreed about exactly what's FUBAR about it. Sep 30 22:24:03 One thing I've found talking American politics abroad: it's very boring, because everyone agrees. Sep 30 22:24:12 His problem is being overeducated. He doesn’t realise how dim-witted and ignorant his audience is. Sep 30 22:24:20 that was the quote Sep 30 22:24:58 lardman: From Gore Vidal? He seems to have a column/interview in the online bit today. But he's never been a fan of Obama (AFAICT from the More4 stings) Sep 30 22:25:15 yeah, but still quite funny anyway Sep 30 22:25:24 http://women.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/women/the_way_we_live/article6854221.ece Sep 30 22:25:43 * lardman is worried about Jaffa's reading Sep 30 22:26:53 has anyone else had the misfortune of being on the GSoC mentors ml? Sep 30 22:27:05 No, but I got a t-shirt from Google Sep 30 22:27:12 never has a list had so much crud go through it Sep 30 22:27:14 me too Sep 30 22:27:19 lardman: I intentionally don't subscribe, every year. Sep 30 22:27:21 lardman: Just found it off the timesonline.co.uk front page. Honest. Sep 30 22:27:37 someone made a comment about pulling at the get-together and something like 200 emails have gone back and forward berating this chap Sep 30 22:27:40 * GeneralAntilles gave the t-shirt to his sister. Sep 30 22:27:57 Jaffa: we'll believe you this time Sep 30 22:28:25 Public education has done its job in the US. Sep 30 22:28:38 * lardman keeps quite about the fact he saves the fashion section and brings it home (for his wife), but invariable forgets and ends up with a week's worth in his bag Sep 30 22:28:52 you can only be over educated for low end jobs Sep 30 22:30:20 I don't know. I don't think the American populace is as dumb as everyone thinks. Sep 30 22:30:48 I don't know, you only tend to meet those who've escaped over here ;) Sep 30 22:30:50 Certainly there are extreme examples, and they make the best stories, so that's what people remember. Sep 30 22:31:13 every country has retards, some countries put their retards on tv, only usa then exports those tv shows Sep 30 22:31:19 The smart people all seem to suffer from extreme cognitive disconnect. Sep 30 22:31:28 mavhc: And you guys watch 'em :). Sep 30 22:31:44 mavhc: America must be one of the only G20 countries to put a retard *in charge* though. Sep 30 22:31:50 retards are funny Sep 30 22:31:50 GeneralAntilles: That's true of everyone everywhere. Sep 30 22:32:00 At least in any nation with public schooling. Sep 30 22:32:05 * Jaffa thinks of others. Berlusconi's a fool, but not a retard. Sep 30 22:32:38 Jaffa: Well, what's better, having a retard in charge, or someone competent and malicious? Sep 30 22:32:44 no, the Italian populace take that one tho Sep 30 22:32:46 most of them probably believe they have an invisible friend in the sky Sep 30 22:33:09 derf: Depends who they're malicious against ;-) Sep 30 22:33:30 People in power are usually malicious against anyone who can threaten their power. Sep 30 22:34:05 Ergo, Bush could have been a retard *and* malicious Sep 30 22:34:28 Bush would have been far more destructive if he hadn't been so incompetent. Sep 30 22:34:41 They're all scum. Sep 30 22:34:42 And I don't mean just the man, but his entire administration. Sep 30 22:34:50 Why bother trying to decide who is scummier? Sep 30 22:41:13 GeneralAntilles: that is the big distraction that democracy provides Sep 30 22:42:15 democracy is like wikipedia, it sucks, but everything else sucks worse Sep 30 22:42:46 pupnik, sadly they've succeeded completely in playing us off against each other to their own gain. Sep 30 22:43:26 we are easily manipulated Sep 30 22:45:05 nation-states are a comparatively recent innovation. Sep 30 22:45:17 But the alternatives are worse Sep 30 22:50:21 Yay, it's launched: http://www.alfav5.com/ Sep 30 22:51:25 ? Sep 30 22:51:33 I thought it was a link to a car, seems now Sep 30 22:51:35 not Sep 30 22:51:35 Over 2 years of my life at work as senior architect Sep 30 22:51:51 * Jaffa 's baby. Sep 30 22:52:17 well congrats :) Sep 30 22:52:49 consulting websitE? Sep 30 22:53:20 And tomorrow I get to go back into work and carry on on phase 2 :) Sep 30 22:54:59 Jaffa: Collect underpants? Sep 30 22:55:21 SpeedEvil: Reciprocating splines? Sep 30 22:55:32 ah, the NA site isn't showing it Sep 30 22:55:42 Pavlov: Ah, no - NA launch next year. Sep 30 22:56:03 The vagaries of US leasing, with per diem rental structures. Sep 30 22:56:18 "In all areas, from new-business validation and credit evaluation to collections management, Business Rules Engine helps you achieve peak process performance by applying automatic rules in logic-intensive areas of asset finance - ensuring greater efficiency and repeatable, consistent decisions, and allowing more effective use of key resources. Sep 30 22:56:23 wow Sep 30 22:56:50 Abso-sodding-lutely˙. Sep 30 22:57:05 doesn't display in firefox on linux Jaffa Sep 30 22:57:15 that's a big sector you're missing there... Sep 30 22:57:16 ;) Sep 30 22:57:24 Marketing stuff's great. Even more fun when you have to say that to a c lient Sep 30 22:57:29 lbt: WorksForMe Sep 30 22:57:47 lbt: Define "doesn't work"? Sep 30 22:57:58 mouse over select a region Sep 30 22:58:06 the graphic is truncated Sep 30 22:58:08 lbt: current URL? Sep 30 22:58:11 and I get "ente" Sep 30 22:58:15 http://www.chpconsulting.com/ Sep 30 22:58:39 lbt: Better if you press Ctrl-0? Sep 30 22:59:06 no Sep 30 22:59:20 Bah. Can you send me a screenshot? I'll pass it on to our marketing dept Sep 30 22:59:32 willdo Sep 30 22:59:34 * Jaffa worries more about making the damned thing work Sep 30 22:59:36 lbt: ta muchly Sep 30 23:02:35 getting late, off to bed Sep 30 23:02:37 night all Sep 30 23:02:55 Good plan Sep 30 23:03:25 I suppose you guys have seen this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0wbLaMXeu4 Sep 30 23:03:28 linux ftw :) Sep 30 23:06:28 Jaffa: anyways, very cool. always exciting to ship software Sep 30 23:09:04 so yeah Sep 30 23:09:25 this kind of thing is why I'm buying an n900 : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0wbLaMXeu4 Sep 30 23:15:57 night all Sep 30 23:19:41 Jaffa: Bad news. "Something went wrong: globalname "FacebookError" is not defined". Sep 30 23:20:34 garage is downnn Sep 30 23:24:11 bobbyd: While that's cool, it would be even neater having location-based netplay. ;) Sep 30 23:31:18 [24~/quit Sep 30 23:31:20 .quit Sep 30 23:38:57 zerojay: possible I suppose via wifi Sep 30 23:39:27 hello world :P Sep 30 23:39:31 ~seen b-man16 Sep 30 23:39:33 b-man16 was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 4d 41m 22s ago, saying: 'xD'. Sep 30 23:40:24 who knows about android on the 810? Sep 30 23:40:59 anyone here have an n810? Sep 30 23:42:09 i would like to load android on my n810, and was hoping someone here could point me to the right resources Sep 30 23:42:35 ive seen a couple readmes, but nothing thorough or recent Oct 01 00:52:41 purevol: good luck Oct 01 00:54:39 luke-jr, you messaged me earlier (before my irc died) i believe i should thank you Oct 01 00:56:10 lcuk, just wanted to say that Im sorry to hear what happened to you today. Oct 01 00:56:40 mmm me too Oct 01 00:56:46 i didnt expect that final kick Oct 01 00:57:49 yeah real bummer. Oct 01 00:58:11 Love your stuff, I donated a little money to you, cannot afford much though (dont get paid much) but thought Id try to help Oct 01 00:58:12 did you get your fullscreen working Oct 01 00:58:15 yes I did Oct 01 00:58:17 I love it!!! Oct 01 00:58:21 good, thats the most important part Oct 01 00:58:25 Its awesome Oct 01 00:58:32 (though some of the stuff really really confuses me) Oct 01 00:58:32 lcuk: Oct 01 00:58:34 yeah, and it can only get better Oct 01 00:58:42 * lcuk is confused too Oct 01 00:58:49 hi rm_you Oct 01 00:59:10 Tadthebuilder, i have had so much to do, a lot is still test over final form Oct 01 00:59:21 ah that might explain Oct 01 00:59:39 lcuk: as root: dsmetest -l Oct 01 00:59:41 jumptoconlcusions Oct 01 00:59:42 or Oct 01 00:59:42 its in the process of being boiled down (or was) now that i know the library does what i need Oct 01 01:00:04 Tadthebuilder :D let me find the actual reference.. Oct 01 01:00:07 chroot to the initfs and then run that Oct 01 01:00:34 lcuk: /usr/sbin/chroot /mnt/initfs/ dsmetest -l 1 Oct 01 01:00:45 see if it changes the brightness on your tablet to like... low Oct 01 01:02:47 rm_you, got a more serious issue: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=32253 Oct 01 01:03:20 dayum <_< Oct 01 01:04:46 Oh I have a question for you lcuk about future potential of liqbase... Oct 01 01:04:58 will you be adding the ebook reading thing you had on the first one? Oct 01 01:05:13 because that would be really nice to hit the button and take notes over top of an ebook that I was reading Oct 01 01:05:29 'to infinity and beyond!' Oct 01 01:06:50 Tadthebuilder, the idea is to add everything back in Oct 01 01:06:54 ah okay Oct 01 01:06:54 but as standalone apps Oct 01 01:06:59 makes sense Oct 01 01:07:01 so users can run what they want Oct 01 01:07:05 and not have the whole liqbase Oct 01 01:07:11 if they just use one part Oct 01 01:07:17 now, notice in the top right corner Oct 01 01:07:18 ah also this is open source so expendable by others correct? Oct 01 01:07:20 theres a pencil.. Oct 01 01:07:22 yes Oct 01 01:07:25 I love that pencil Oct 01 01:07:32 what does it do Oct 01 01:07:36 if I click it Oct 01 01:07:43 it allows me take notes concerning whatever im looking at Oct 01 01:07:45 at first Oct 01 01:07:49 I thought It would copy the screen Oct 01 01:07:52 then let me draw on it Oct 01 01:07:55 but it doesnt Oct 01 01:07:58 but it is still handy Oct 01 01:08:01 (its been specially designed by the good folks at digia btw) Oct 01 01:08:19 it has capability to trace over any screen Oct 01 01:08:19 (not sure what digia is) Oct 01 01:08:25 yes Oct 01 01:08:27 yes, i should save the screenshot along with it too Oct 01 01:08:28 that is what i meant in less words Oct 01 01:08:45 ah so future iterations may save the screen shot as well? Oct 01 01:08:47 i want to draw silly faces on photographs : Oct 01 01:08:49 yes Oct 01 01:08:51 haha Oct 01 01:08:57 the bottom right corner has a button called "pic" Oct 01 01:09:02 it saves a direct screenshot Oct 01 01:09:16 its like the inverted postcard app Oct 01 01:09:28 sometimes you need to draw a circle around something and say "wtf" Oct 01 01:09:29 I do not see anything in the bottom right corner... Oct 01 01:09:34 other times, you want to say hello mum Oct 01 01:09:35 or Oct 01 01:09:36 is that future Oct 01 01:09:38 haha Oct 01 01:09:45 that hsould eb there when you are tracing Oct 01 01:09:54 -major typos Oct 01 01:10:02 you might not have it cos the build is a little old Oct 01 01:10:09 ah okay Oct 01 01:10:14 nope Oct 01 01:10:16 its there found it Oct 01 01:10:19 lcuk: well, i hope you can come T_T Oct 01 01:10:43 rm_you, do i need to chroot things? seriously? Oct 01 01:10:51 i believe so Oct 01 01:10:54 yikes Oct 01 01:10:54 well Lcuk thankyou so much for the app it is awesome. Oct 01 01:10:55 it's part of initfs Oct 01 01:10:57 will it break stuff Oct 01 01:11:01 no Oct 01 01:11:08 Tadthebuilder, :) its hopefully only just getting started Oct 01 01:11:13 you're just loading into a different environment Oct 01 01:11:17 i hope this hiccup with funding doesnt stop me for too long Oct 01 01:11:20 If it wont offend you is it cool if I pray that you find a job? Oct 01 01:11:43 Tadthebuilder, i would be honoured :) every little helps right now Oct 01 01:11:43 lcuk: i know like three companies in Texas that would hire you :P if you want to hang out here :P Oct 01 01:11:47 and i was thinking last night Oct 01 01:11:57 lcuk: cost of living in San Antonio is like... ridiculously low :P Oct 01 01:12:00 i would perhaps like to have a talk with you at some point in the very near future Oct 01 01:12:15 me? Oct 01 01:12:39 yes :) send me a quick "hi" email and ill reply Oct 01 01:12:44 liquid@gmail.com Oct 01 01:13:08 will do man Oct 01 01:13:13 :) cool Oct 01 01:13:20 I gotta head out though now. But ill be praying for you Oct 01 01:13:39 have a wonderful night. Hope you can still get to amsterdam. Oct 01 01:13:42 Talk to you later Oct 01 01:13:51 me too! thanks tad Oct 01 01:14:25 rm_you, just like this Oct 01 01:14:25 /usr/sbin/chroot /mnt/initfs/ dsmetest -l 1 Oct 01 01:14:30 and it wont break stuff Oct 01 01:14:35 lcuk: where is the latest liqbase source? Oct 01 01:14:45 nobody wants to live in texas Oct 01 01:14:46 http://github.com/lcuk Oct 01 01:14:49 other than texans Oct 01 01:14:50 haha Oct 01 01:16:17 lol Oct 01 01:16:20 I'm from WA ::P Oct 01 01:16:25 lcuk: it doesn Oct 01 01:16:31 doesn't break things, no Oct 01 01:18:00 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=290762&highlight=game#post290762 found it! Oct 01 01:19:48 lcuk: github ftl Oct 01 01:20:02 why, it works from maemo Oct 01 01:20:03 directly Oct 01 01:20:22 proprietary Oct 01 01:21:13 but i cant use maemo garage from maemo device yet :$ Oct 01 01:21:16 so it will suffice Oct 01 01:21:43 until a lesser evil comes about and i can work in the garage in piece :) Oct 01 01:25:19 lcuk: Gitorious Oct 01 01:34:03 luke-jr, dont call me names ;( Oct 01 01:34:06 i know what you mean tho Oct 01 01:34:10 but im not moving now it Oct 01 01:34:16 its a heartache Oct 01 01:35:16 what? Oct 01 01:35:20 how is it a heartache Oct 01 01:35:24 you just push somewhere else Oct 01 01:44:35 soooo Oct 01 01:44:46 what's the latest word on USB OTG? Oct 01 01:44:52 so anyone have Commander Keen working yet? Oct 01 01:45:17 I read that it was definitely out, then thre was confusion, then someone said it was in, same with the digital compass Oct 01 01:45:23 for the n900 of course :) Oct 01 01:46:10 bobbyd: N810 has OTG so I can't imagine N900 lacks it Oct 01 01:48:55 luke-jr: I read that they disabled it at the last moment because it wouldn't work with usb charging Oct 01 01:48:59 luke-jr, theres a long discussion on tmo Oct 01 01:49:18 luke-jr: if it does have it then I'll be able to use my korg nanokey with it :) Oct 01 01:50:35 which would possibly make my life Oct 01 01:50:52 and then there's the digital compass, I've seen many conflicting reports about that Oct 01 01:52:15 what is USB OTG? Oct 01 01:52:48 Jason404, its a mobile version of USB Oct 01 01:53:01 designed to allow small devices to be hosts Oct 01 01:53:11 but using less power than usual Oct 01 01:53:22 lcuk: thanks. no diffrerence from a user perspective compared to a computer then? Oct 01 01:53:30 not really Oct 01 01:53:41 apart from they would always try to plug in hair dryers and stuff Oct 01 01:53:48 and complain when there wasnt enough current Oct 01 01:54:05 ah ic. no self powered 2.5" HDD then? Oct 01 01:54:13 Jason404: devices are limited to a vary small amount of power like lcuk says, 100milliamps i think Oct 01 01:54:29 of course Oct 01 01:57:26 I'm really excited about the n900 as a portable music device Oct 01 01:57:38 lots of potential there I think Oct 01 01:57:46 music creation I mean :) Oct 01 01:57:48 bobbyd, you should be really excited about it for all sorts of things Oct 01 01:57:53 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yk27PenpAz0 Oct 01 01:58:00 jamming without instruments Oct 01 01:58:10 table top drumming brought to life :) Oct 01 01:59:25 using the accelerometers? Oct 01 01:59:32 yeah Oct 01 01:59:37 man I don't know the half of what's going on! Oct 01 01:59:50 what's the app they're running? Oct 01 02:00:02 its one of the interactions in liqbase Oct 01 02:00:04 called liqflow Oct 01 02:00:17 will that be available for people to download? Oct 01 02:00:20 nice big presentation about it http://mynokiablog.com/2009/09/15/video-nokia-n900-presentation-with-gary-birkett-and-liqbase/ Oct 01 02:00:26 yeah - its in maemo-extras now Oct 01 02:00:27 ta Oct 01 02:00:29 runs on n8x0 Oct 01 02:00:32 heh Oct 01 02:00:35 but better on n900 Oct 01 02:00:43 extras-devel sorry Oct 01 02:00:44 I don't think I'm going to be able to get anything done once I get this Oct 01 02:00:46 its not quite ready Oct 01 02:01:04 how come the screens were showing a contiguous image? Oct 01 02:01:12 Jason404, magic Oct 01 02:01:18 ic Oct 01 02:01:24 the real networked version will be available if i get to the summit Oct 01 02:01:29 N900 has some good specs then Oct 01 02:01:44 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=32253 Oct 01 02:01:49 but im not going to the summit Oct 01 02:01:53 and im stopping work on stuff Oct 01 02:02:14 i hada bombshell this evening Oct 01 02:02:15 Jason404: same processor and 3d hardware as the iPhone 3G Oct 01 02:02:18 yes, i read that earlier. I am in a similar boat, as an architect Oct 01 02:02:31 lcuk: job problems? Oct 01 02:02:38 a lot of very good folks in the community have stepped up to help and we shall see how it goes Oct 01 02:02:42 bobbyd: yeah, I know Oct 01 02:02:55 bobbyd, very much so Oct 01 02:03:12 i knew the job loss was coming, but the final kick i got today really pissed on everything Oct 01 02:03:35 lots of places are shite Oct 01 02:03:52 what are your main skills? Oct 01 02:04:34 and you can take your boss to an industrial tribunal and get your money back Oct 01 02:04:35 http://www.linkedin.com/pub/gary-birkett/16/550/41b Oct 01 02:04:39 lcuk: :( Oct 01 02:04:43 I did that with a previous employer Oct 01 02:04:49 it wont help, in 4 days time my bills go out Oct 01 02:04:57 lcuk: The only opening I have at the moment is someone to shovel a bit of gravel. Oct 01 02:05:27 <3 Oct 01 02:05:35 ? Oct 01 02:06:00 saw the preview for 5 Oct 01 02:06:11 lcuk: you can talk to your bank, they are usually willing to help you out if you give them notice up front Oct 01 02:06:12 should work on n800, yes? Oct 01 02:06:17 elekt: not a chance. Oct 01 02:06:22 :( why Oct 01 02:06:33 bobbyd, i think i will manage it Oct 01 02:06:35 elekt: N8x0 haven't been supported by Nokia for over a year Oct 01 02:06:38 but the bank will not help Oct 01 02:06:41 ok :/ Oct 01 02:06:43 because i have no job right now Oct 01 02:07:05 yeah but i had debian installed on n800, i don't think maemo5 is such a big stretch Oct 01 02:07:07 even if not supported Oct 01 02:07:18 lcuk: well, I asked the bank for an overdraft to cover the time inbetween jobs and they gave me it Oct 01 02:07:19 elekt: Maemo 5 requires OpenGL ES at least Oct 01 02:07:25 ouch Oct 01 02:07:26 * lcuk has been cradled in the boxem of the best in the community and thinks it can work Oct 01 02:07:28 elekt: Mer is your best bet. Oct 01 02:07:32 lcuk: not saying you should do that, just relating my experience Oct 01 02:07:38 mer? Oct 01 02:07:44 elekt: I run Gentoo. Oct 01 02:07:46 boxom Oct 01 02:07:51 however its spelt Oct 01 02:07:54 on n800? Oct 01 02:07:59 elekt: Yes. Oct 01 02:08:08 lcuk: Bosom? lol Oct 01 02:08:09 that is freakin awesome Oct 01 02:08:17 yes zerojay thank you Oct 01 02:08:19 is it usable? Oct 01 02:08:20 lcuk: you're welcome to apply to my place of work : www.realtimeworlds.com Oct 01 02:08:25 * lcuk rests in zerojay's bosom Oct 01 02:08:41 elekt: depends on what you want to do Oct 01 02:08:41 we have roles for non-games developers Oct 01 02:08:43 Mer is not Maemo 5. It is basically a new Ubuntu based distro that is attempting to bring Fremantle features and so on. Oct 01 02:08:46 elekt: and I have a N810 Oct 01 02:08:56 :( Oct 01 02:09:11 this is so sad i feel like going to a casino and try to win money for an n900 Oct 01 02:09:14 elekt: KDE is barely startable Oct 01 02:09:34 elekt: personally, I'm holding out for an open device. Oct 01 02:09:50 elekt: You feel like that now... imagine after having it in your hands. lol Oct 01 02:09:50 might settle for N900 or some HTC if I can live without the closed features Oct 01 02:10:05 what's closed in n900? Oct 01 02:10:16 anything nw on the sound front? Oct 01 02:10:18 new Oct 01 02:10:30 as in better rate and latency for sound in? Oct 01 02:10:39 It's using PulseAudio now. Oct 01 02:10:44 Instead of ESD. Oct 01 02:10:57 M4 used ESD? :/ Oct 01 02:11:03 Think so. Oct 01 02:11:32 damn Oct 01 02:11:54 there's a kontori video on engadget, i thought i'd come catch up Oct 01 02:12:16 they're making fun of the baby crying somewere offscreen while he's running snes Oct 01 02:12:16 elekt, by "closed" luke-jr of course means, a userspace library for OpenGL ES, cellular functionality and possibly GPS. Oct 01 02:12:28 hi GA Oct 01 02:12:35 of course, I don't expect to see open hardware anytime soob Oct 01 02:12:36 Plus battery charging. Oct 01 02:12:36 soon* Oct 01 02:12:47 GeneralAntilles: you have a list? Oct 01 02:12:59 Media Player UI. Oct 01 02:13:10 Yes, Nokia sent me this nice poster of it. :roll: Oct 01 02:13:27 zerojay, I wasn't going to get into userspace stuff for hardware. ;) Oct 01 02:13:41 :) Oct 01 02:14:18 i've only been using my n80 to read pdfs for the last few months. and run wikipedia offline. but i was hoping i'd get to play with m5 Oct 01 02:14:30 does unsupported first party hardwae count as interesting? Oct 01 02:14:32 PDFs are stupid Oct 01 02:14:32 I don't care if there are parts I can't play with, what I can play with! proper support for all hardware under linux wil be great thanks :D Oct 01 02:14:38 timeless: Yes. Oct 01 02:14:45 (for reading with small devices) Oct 01 02:14:55 it'll probably be one of the most user-friendly linux devices ever made Oct 01 02:15:03 tivo Oct 01 02:15:06 It is. Oct 01 02:15:07 SpeedEvil, PDFs are generally stupid period for the vast majority of the applications to which they are put. Oct 01 02:15:11 speedevil - better than lugging around a laptop just for that Oct 01 02:15:26 SpeedEvil: ok, tivo :) Oct 01 02:15:29 elekt: pdf on a 3.5" screen though - shoot me now. Oct 01 02:15:34 "one of" Oct 01 02:15:40 works well Oct 01 02:15:53 between the maemo reader and evince, it's pretty comfy Oct 01 02:16:07 + good battery life if you're offline Oct 01 02:16:22 pdf is not a sane format for when you need to actually boost the font to something readable and have it rewrap Oct 01 02:16:43 right, but if you read books, you don't wanna screw with the formatting Oct 01 02:17:02 at least i don't Oct 01 02:17:36 timeless: ? Oct 01 02:17:42 yes? Oct 01 02:17:43 And you can sanely read a normal book on a 3.5" display without rewrapping it? Oct 01 02:17:50 SpeedEvil: PDF is a sane format. It just isn't for what you said. Oct 01 02:17:51 yup Oct 01 02:17:58 timeless: I don't understand your question Oct 01 02:18:16 I tend to wind up the font size a lot for that sort of use. Oct 01 02:18:20 lcuk: did you write the graphics display for the 1.0 thing? Oct 01 02:18:39 damn pookie Oct 01 02:18:43 * timeless cries Oct 01 02:18:49 bad browser Oct 01 02:18:54 i'm watching the closer Oct 01 02:19:00 if it's a small font yyou can zoom in as long as it doesn't cut anything off horizontally Oct 01 02:19:07 then you scll down Oct 01 02:19:12 scroll Oct 01 02:19:16 are gangs so stupid that they plaster the whole murder over the walls Oct 01 02:19:20 timeless: No cookie? Oct 01 02:19:20 i've been doing it for a few months Oct 01 02:19:36 i forget wat my nick used to be here. Oct 01 02:19:45 well, the crash reporter gave me a modal cookie Oct 01 02:19:50 zerojay: you can get plenty of cookies on Nokia's website I'm sure Oct 01 02:19:57 elekt: Sure - but when the publication gets to the width of the screen and you can't see it - pdf is broken Oct 01 02:20:13 elekt; sometimes it's just not possible to hold the device up to your face. Oct 01 02:20:31 SpeedEvil: not broken, just not for that purpose Oct 01 02:20:36 PDF is strictly for printing Oct 01 02:20:42 yeah, i mean i wouldn't read anything other than text Oct 01 02:20:46 giant illustrations Oct 01 02:20:57 Broken for the distribution of text for reading on devices with greatly varying screen sizes. Oct 01 02:21:07 For printing at one format - just fine. Oct 01 02:21:22 that's what PDF is for Oct 01 02:21:27 screen sizes, or users with varying vision Oct 01 02:21:35 browser crashed again Oct 01 02:21:35 try to use an apple as a baseball, and it obviously won't work too well Oct 01 02:21:36 that's what it WAS for Oct 01 02:21:55 now it's for me to read Oct 01 02:21:58 timeless: I haven't had more than 2 crashes so far in about two weeks. Oct 01 02:22:06 zerojay: you have a N900? Oct 01 02:22:22 i think i have a reproducible one :o Oct 01 02:22:40 someone w/ a N900: can I have a shell account to script up a list of non-free pkgs? :p Oct 01 02:23:26 luke-jr, they have a couple of N900s with time available. http://forum.nokia.com/rda Oct 01 02:23:29 well thanks for the horrible news Oct 01 02:23:32 and good luck Oct 01 02:23:52 RDA is awesome. Oct 01 02:24:57 i first experienced fremantle on my n810. using vnc from qwertys scratchbox ! Oct 01 02:27:03 * bobbyd signs up for RDA Oct 01 02:27:32 * luke-jr races bobbyd Oct 01 02:29:32 but luke-jr - its closed source! :p Oct 01 02:30:07 lcuk: that's exactly what I aim to investigate Oct 01 02:31:40 I want to see if my opengl es stuff works on the real hardware :) **** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Oct 01 02:59:56 2009