**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Oct 06 02:59:58 2009 Oct 06 03:13:23 Hi, I am new to irc, using pidgin atm. Do you reccomend another lightweight client? Oct 06 04:29:06 mornin' all Oct 06 04:43:22 morning johnx Oct 06 04:43:34 allo Oct 06 04:43:46 that public transit strike should be loads of fun, no? Oct 06 04:44:26 if it is not over by 8th Oct 06 04:44:44 well, I arrive on the 7th... Oct 06 04:44:50 or wait Oct 06 04:44:54 I do get there on the 8th Oct 06 04:44:58 ah. home free :) Oct 06 05:27:14 can anyone help me finding the driver for Nokia CA-50 cable? Oct 06 05:27:46 I doubt cables need drivers. Oct 06 05:28:08 yes they do Oct 06 05:28:19 no, I'm pretty sure they don't ;) Oct 06 05:28:30 you're not sure about a thing then Oct 06 05:28:53 CA-50 is a generic USB cable Oct 06 05:28:54 almost sure. Oct 06 05:29:00 You do not need driver. Oct 06 05:29:05 there, someone who knows the specifics to your cable :) Oct 06 05:29:14 cause once you plug this one into the usb port a dialog pops up requesting a driver then an unknown device lays there unidentified into the device manager lsit Oct 06 05:29:49 That would be the driver for your phone not for the cable. Oct 06 05:29:57 What kind of phone do you have? What model? Oct 06 05:30:03 the phone was never connected Oct 06 05:30:13 how would the pc knows that there is a phone? Oct 06 05:30:48 this ca-50 supports many phones Oct 06 05:30:54 Sorry, you are not making sense. You are connecting bare USB cable to your PC and expect it to "work" with some driver? Oct 06 05:31:01 but the included cd i bought with it is not installing anything Oct 06 05:31:02 some of those cables are actually usb-serial adapters Oct 06 05:31:11 Some are. Oct 06 05:31:32 what is the name given to elements that naturally form molecules Oct 06 05:31:35 like oxygen Oct 06 05:31:47 He probably means this one: http://www.cs-tele.com/mobile-phone-data-cable/usb.htm Oct 06 05:31:51 Macer: Atoms? Oct 06 05:31:56 which usually consists of 2 atoms bonded by an electron Oct 06 05:32:07 Ah...Gases? =) Oct 06 05:32:12 lol.. there is a special name for them Oct 06 05:32:15 no Oct 06 05:32:24 A moment, this requires some creative googling Oct 06 05:32:36 Driver for Nokia DKE-2, DKU-2, CA-42, CA-53, CA-70, CA-101 Oct 06 05:32:46 This driver is compatible with the following Nokia data cables: Oct 06 05:32:55 Nokia Charging Connectivity Cable CA-70 Oct 06 05:32:55 diatomic elements Oct 06 05:33:01 Nokia Charging Connectivity Cable CA-101 Oct 06 05:33:01 Here you go Oct 06 05:33:07 Nokia Connectivity Adapter Cable CA-42 Oct 06 05:33:09 i mean for elements like oxygen that are usually not really molecules but not really atoms and form in a binary structure Oct 06 05:33:14 this is from Nokia website Oct 06 05:33:25 apparently there is a driver for cables Oct 06 05:33:25 is it diatomic? Oct 06 05:33:30 yea, google says so Oct 06 05:33:32 the one i'm looking for is CA-50 Oct 06 05:33:42 Nokia Connectivity Adapter Cable CA-50 Oct 06 05:34:26 is it a genuine original nokia? Oct 06 05:37:31 it's like it doesn't even exist... Oct 06 05:40:20 no not genuine that is why i'm searching indeed Oct 06 05:40:37 it's some french crap cable i bought to backup my 1208 contacts Oct 06 05:40:47 it was better if i did that manually Oct 06 05:41:46 you wont find driver from nokia then :/ Oct 06 05:42:24 don't wanna find it on Nokia Oct 06 05:42:36 i just wanna find it wherever it might be :) Oct 06 05:42:47 go back to that cd Oct 06 05:42:55 it is there isn't it? Oct 06 05:43:22 it's most likely a pl2023 with some random usb id to add headache Oct 06 05:44:44 no it's not there unfortunately Oct 06 05:44:52 what is pl2033?? Oct 06 05:45:11 a chip Oct 06 05:45:33 RST38h, thanks Oct 06 05:45:54 so there are no .inf files on the entire cd? Oct 06 05:48:02 * ShadowJK isn't convinced 1208 would talk anything sensible through that port anyway Oct 06 05:50:45 ShadowJK: I suspect he meant he doesn't have a CD Oct 06 05:52:21 * ShadowJK doesn't know if windows comes with drivers for prolific, and I don't know how to tell windows to try a specific driver Oct 06 05:52:31 so I'm not of much help here :) Oct 06 05:58:43 http://maemo.org/development/sdks/maemo_5_api_documentation/ all links to "Hildon APIs" are broken Oct 06 05:59:51 actually, all the links are broken Oct 06 06:04:32 Shapeshifter: it usually means a SDK is coming Oct 06 06:06:35 oh Oct 06 06:25:54 Jaffa: used that greasemonkey script to make facebook vcards for myself Oct 06 06:26:09 Jaffa: now I'd need a piece of python to automerge contacts based on name :) Oct 06 06:27:14 Jaffa: any luck with the photos not updating issue? Oct 06 06:28:58 Isn't there a widget for simple text input in hildon? Oct 06 06:29:10 Shapeshifter: text entry? Oct 06 06:29:23 yes Oct 06 06:30:54 GtkEntry? Oct 06 06:31:11 no wait Oct 06 06:31:34 theres HildonEntry Oct 06 06:31:46 tigert: well, GtkEntry does what I want, but I want to have a hildon popup (from the button) similar to all the other hildon popups (file chooser etc) Oct 06 06:32:03 tigert: where? http://maemo.org/api_refs/4.1/libhildon-2.0.4/ not here... Oct 06 06:32:32 well, but ideally I would like to make my own pop up Oct 06 06:32:33 http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide < "Hildon 2.2 Widget Ui Specification" Oct 06 06:32:40 or is this for N810? Oct 06 06:33:02 I think HildonEntry is for maemo5 Oct 06 06:33:35 tigert: ahh, thanks. the maemo5 api is down that's why I was looking at this one. Oct 06 06:33:42 but that page is quite useful. Oct 06 06:33:43 so what exactly do you want to do? button and popup doesnt sound like "text entry" anymore :) Oct 06 06:33:50 that page contains quite lots stuff Oct 06 06:34:03 the widget spec is good reading I think Oct 06 06:34:17 also styleguide and other stuff Oct 06 06:34:25 plus the maemo HIG Oct 06 06:35:28 http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Graphical_UI_Tutorial/Controls#Hildon_Text_Entry Oct 06 06:35:31 tigert: well, I need a popup with a text field and three drop-down lists. I'll read that guide, I just started ;) Oct 06 06:35:33 this has stuff too about text entry Oct 06 06:35:39 aaa Oct 06 06:35:46 wait Oct 06 06:35:51 thats hildon touch selector thingy Oct 06 06:36:17 http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Graphical_UI_Tutorial/Data_selection Oct 06 06:36:21 this contains something like that Oct 06 06:36:45 tigert: thanks ^^ Oct 06 06:37:14 HildonPickerButton is something to look for too Oct 06 06:38:19 but is it possible to combine these widgets into one "popup". Oct 06 06:38:38 the HildonPickerButton is this kind of convenience thingy I think Oct 06 06:39:06 okay Oct 06 06:39:07 see section "15 Pickers" from the widget spec Oct 06 06:39:19 * tigert is not a coder so sorry if the information is not that precise :) Oct 06 06:39:48 "Examples for using this widget exist in the libhildon1-doc / libhildon1-examples Oct 06 06:39:48 packages. Oct 06 06:39:49 " Oct 06 06:41:08 http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Application_Development/Data_selection#Picker_dialog_and_picker_buttons Oct 06 06:42:03 thanks Oct 06 06:42:09 wow the g1 is shitty on cpu power Oct 06 06:42:13 I guess you can add more columns to match your need Oct 06 06:42:24 like ssh file xfer go 20K/s Oct 06 06:42:33 Macer: the tmobile android thingy? Oct 06 06:42:38 yeah Oct 06 06:42:59 a friend complained also that it was pretty slow in general Oct 06 06:43:07 that too Oct 06 06:43:18 but sftp is just obscene Oct 06 06:43:35 tetheing to it gives me 70-100 Oct 06 06:45:28 it seems to me like they don't want people to make dialogs which combine different widgets http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Human_Interface_Guidelines/Controls it seems like rather wizard like successions of popups are preferred where the user enters one thing and then presses next etc. Oct 06 06:45:33 could this be true? Oct 06 06:45:35 or am I missing something Oct 06 06:46:50 what is your usecase? Oct 06 06:46:58 what kind of stuff do you need to input? Oct 06 06:47:18 the wizard thingy is one way to do stuff if there is a lot of data Oct 06 06:47:30 so that you can avoid having a long dialog that scrolls Oct 06 06:48:42 we can control our office (at the uni) using a web interface, I'm writing a client for it. we can open the door, switch lights etc. all over the web, and we can also send messages to a LED bar. I want a popup where one can enter a simple sentence, choose the scroll direction for appearing and leaving the ledbar (left/right) and the color (a set of 8 color-combinations is possible). the text should be a text entry field, the other three ... Oct 06 06:48:48 ... should be drop-down like pickers. Oct 06 06:49:22 hmm Oct 06 06:49:26 so it's just one text entry and three very short drop-down menus. although there are no drop down menus on such a small device, which is smart... so I guess a wizard is okay. Oct 06 06:49:43 you could do it with text entry and three picker buttons Oct 06 06:50:02 basically the dropdown menu got replaced with picker button Oct 06 06:50:03 enter text, next. pick entry scrolling direction, next. pick leaving scrolling direction, nect. pick color-combination, done. Oct 06 06:50:11 nah Oct 06 06:50:13 thats cumbersome Oct 06 06:50:23 yeah I thinks so as well Oct 06 06:50:24 do it so that it remembers its last set values next time, Oct 06 06:50:25 and Oct 06 06:52:50 Oct 06 06:52:51 .-----------------------------. Oct 06 06:52:51 | [ enter text... ] | Oct 06 06:52:51 | ( Entry: from left ) | Oct 06 06:52:51 | ( Exit: to right ) | Oct 06 06:52:54 | ( Color: xxx ) [send]| Oct 06 06:52:56 Oct 06 06:53:00 those ( ) are buttons Oct 06 06:53:12 now you could do it so that the entry and exit buttons are those two-line ones, Oct 06 06:53:20 that, when you press, just toggle the value Oct 06 06:53:30 but if I do a picker button, it will work just the same... even more tapping required: "send message" -> text entry -> picker-button-for-entry-scrolling -> selection of scrolling style -> Done -> picker-button-for-leaving-scrolling -> selection of scrolling style -> done -> picker-button-for-color -> selection of color -> done -> send Oct 06 06:53:44 picker is just needed for color Oct 06 06:53:50 no wait Oct 06 06:53:58 or are those entry and exit ones multi-choice too? Oct 06 06:54:02 left, right, top, bottom? Oct 06 06:54:14 that's more taps than just a wizard, where tapping "next" will launch the next picker right away instead of going back to the dialog. all three choices are text choices, no actual color-picker Oct 06 06:54:22 entry/exit area just left/right Oct 06 06:54:25 basically the picker button is just like dropdown Oct 06 06:54:30 same number of taps Oct 06 06:54:34 but its just larger Oct 06 06:54:45 because a single item picker doesnt have "OK"-button Oct 06 06:54:54 it just closes after you select the item you need Oct 06 06:55:13 and if you make it remember the state, you very likely just type a new message Oct 06 06:55:14 tigert: not really, as picker button also supports multiple choice and as such you need a "done" button. Oh there is "single item picker"? didn't see that Oct 06 06:55:24 yeah, a single item picker doesnt have ok Oct 06 06:55:43 allright, than thats ideal. now I just need to find out how to combine the widgets Oct 06 06:55:51 at least I have seen such ones Oct 06 06:56:03 do you have a device too or just the sdk? Oct 06 06:57:23 Shapeshifter: I think the single-selection one doesnt have a done-button Oct 06 06:57:26 multiselection does Oct 06 06:57:40 tigert: sdk only. Oct 06 07:00:01 found it, HILDON_TOUCH_SELECTOR_SELECTION_MODE_SINGLE Oct 06 07:00:09 tigert: thanks for your help Oct 06 07:00:27 yeah Oct 06 07:00:31 ok :) Oct 06 07:00:34 hopefully that does it Oct 06 07:00:54 because the single selection thingy is just to replace a dropdown menu with a more finger-friendly version Oct 06 07:00:59 same interaction but different looks Oct 06 07:01:12 there is also the gtk dropdown widget available as deprecated legacy Oct 06 07:01:19 but its not really fun to use Oct 06 07:01:22 so use the selector Oct 06 07:01:39 sure Oct 06 07:43:21 remoo Oct 06 07:48:46 Hi Oct 06 07:51:54 tigert: I couldn't reproduce, but I've switched in my dev version to being able to update them via Python, which should improve the robustness Oct 06 07:52:04 tigert: Yeah, I'd love automerging on matching names. Oct 06 07:52:29 Maybe, one day, Hermes could do it. Oct 06 07:52:31 Morning, all Oct 06 07:54:25 morning Oct 06 08:02:49 yeah Oct 06 08:02:54 and morning Oct 06 08:03:19 morning Oct 06 08:08:08 moo Oct 06 08:08:55 moo Oct 06 08:09:44 /cowsay ? :) Oct 06 08:10:52 o_O Oct 06 08:19:51 hah! Oct 06 08:20:09 mm? Oct 06 08:26:15 hello Oct 06 08:27:38 ehlo samad Oct 06 08:28:20 I am implementing the camera for nokia n900 to take picture and i have used * is shown in the correct widget */ Oct 06 08:28:20 gst_x_overlay_set_xwindow_id(GST_X_OVERLAY(data), Oct 06 08:28:20 GDK_WINDOW_XWINDOW(widget->window)); Oct 06 08:28:52 but there is an error "undefined symbol: gst_x_overlay_get_type Oct 06 08:28:52 " Oct 06 08:29:25 can anybody help me regarding this error how can i solved ? Oct 06 08:32:06 hmm, i see a updated 5.0 timestamp in /pool/maemo/maemo5.0/ Oct 06 08:33:07 err Oct 06 08:33:10 /pool/maemo5.0 Oct 06 08:34:18 initscripts and statusmenu? ;) Oct 06 08:35:05 statusmenu is out Oct 06 08:35:56 interesting, OSS crash reporter Oct 06 08:36:20 I must say the maemo docs are superb Oct 06 08:36:34 they used to be a bit crap Oct 06 08:36:39 but they're heaps better now Oct 06 08:37:06 well, at least the UI bit which I'm reading now. loads of code samples, mostly well structured Oct 06 08:37:49 What is statusmenu? Oct 06 08:38:17 RST38h: the thingie you tap on to show battery level etc Oct 06 08:38:42 it got updated? hmmm Oct 06 08:39:05 no, it got oss'ed Oct 06 08:40:18 Coooool Oct 06 08:40:43 as in, the bare area Oct 06 08:41:05 microb-eal, microb-engine.. Oct 06 08:41:22 qt in sdk, hm Oct 06 08:42:29 Are we finally getting a real 5.0 SDK today? Oct 06 08:43:00 looks like it Oct 06 08:43:16 i'm already hoarding sources Oct 06 08:43:17 damn you're fast Oct 06 08:43:28 OSS Hoarder Oct 06 08:43:35 Print this on your badge Oct 06 08:43:49 jjo: it was kinda obvious from the 6am edits and API documentation disappearing yesterday Oct 06 08:44:23 API documentation relink to /final/* ;) Oct 06 08:44:26 now where on earth is the nokia-binaries token system again.. Oct 06 08:47:38 * RST38h moos for wazd Oct 06 08:47:51 mhh... : 180: warning: assignment from incompatible pointer type. In 180 I have this: window = hildon_stackable_window_new (); and window has been declared as: HildonWindow *window; Oct 06 08:48:41 Shapeshifter: Welcome to GTK "type" system Oct 06 08:48:59 RST38h: what does it want? Oct 06 08:49:10 something like GTK_HILDONWINDOW(hildon_*()) will do Oct 06 08:49:18 hmm, that's a lot of nokia-binaries Oct 06 08:49:38 and that's not all Oct 06 08:50:05 Stskeeps: You don't say ;) Oct 06 08:50:17 shame they're compiled for armv7 :/ Oct 06 08:50:55 * RST38h cackles evilly at Sts Oct 06 08:51:09 er. is this the whole system? Oct 06 08:51:23 * GeneralAntilles notices more Nokia @maemo.org addresses popping up. . . . Oct 06 08:51:43 whom have we got? Oct 06 08:52:04 fremantle-feedback at maemo.org Oct 06 08:52:17 and the integration address which I was told would be changed, hasn't been. Oct 06 08:52:38 GeneralAntilles: on the other hand, if they're moving into more open, they're as equal part as the rest of the community.. Oct 06 08:53:08 Stskeeps, well, my point was and is that official Nokia addresses should be on official Nokia domains. Oct 06 08:53:28 I don't really have an issue with them using http://maemo.org addresses, but @nokia or @maemo.nokia would make much more sense. Oct 06 08:53:46 god, i'm only 69% through package list of nokia-binaries O_o Oct 06 08:54:18 Stskeeps: Packages file increased 4x between b2 and now ;) Oct 06 08:54:26 X-Fade: no shit.. :P Oct 06 08:54:40 Stskeeps: Indexing it for packages interface now. Oct 06 08:54:43 well, that should help community variants a bit. Oct 06 08:55:10 * GeneralAntilles wonders if people will quiet down about ogg. Oct 06 08:55:34 GeneralAntilles: ever? doubt it Oct 06 08:55:44 regarding http://wiki.maemo.org/MMS_implementation: suspension of GPRS connections is GSM level issue, if I've understood correctly. more primitive radio/protocol implementations can't operate multiple connections simultaneously, more recent ones can. Oct 06 08:56:02 Stskeeps, well, easy support is available right from Extras before the device is even out. ;) Oct 06 08:56:04 kirma: cool Oct 06 08:56:11 GeneralAntilles: i have seen people say this is not enough. Oct 06 08:56:12 * frals does NOT have highlight on MMS, promise! Oct 06 08:56:19 at which point i facepalmed. Oct 06 08:56:33 Stskeeps: At which point there's no point talking to them. Oct 06 08:56:40 Jaffa: i have that feeling with many things Oct 06 08:56:41 As they're a codec nutjob/zealot. Oct 06 08:56:48 Stskeeps: Hence my reading less of tmo ;-) Oct 06 08:57:03 kirma: do you mind updating the wikipage and adding it in there? :) Oct 06 08:57:17 frals: You are the guy who really wants his MMSes right? Oct 06 08:57:26 :rolleyes: maybe? ;) Oct 06 08:57:34 frals: I'm not a radio engineer though, but I know this applies at least to some simultaneous connection issues on 3GPP stuff. Oct 06 08:57:46 frals: I have got a suggestion for you Oct 06 08:58:03 kirma: okey Oct 06 08:58:04 frals: well, I probably should get maemo account first, not to mention this is not absolute knowledge :) Oct 06 08:58:15 RST38h: shoot! Oct 06 08:58:34 frals: You can get 50% of the MMS functionality without modifying the kernel or doing anything at the OS level Oct 06 08:58:44 kirma: hehe, just add it saying its not certain or whatever, and we can pray it works that way ;) Oct 06 08:58:56 ;) Oct 06 08:59:05 frals: Simply implement an image sharing plugin that wraps photo into MMS bullshit and sends it to a web-based MMSC Oct 06 08:59:19 frals: One of those "send sms/mms online" services Oct 06 09:00:03 frals: This way you can solve the problem entirely by third party development, and still be able to send MMSes (but not receive) Oct 06 09:00:38 RST38h: cool, ill take a look at that :) thanks Oct 06 09:01:22 the receive part *should* be fine, as most operators sends you an URL to get it from afaik, in my experience anyway, if your phone is unable to get it as an mms Oct 06 09:01:47 frals: A bit wrong Oct 06 09:01:59 frals: The ALWAYS send you an URL Oct 06 09:02:37 frals: But this URL usually points to their internal MMSC that is supposed to be accessed through a separate APN, at higher price than normal internet Oct 06 09:02:39 yeah, but i assume you get a different url instead of the mmsc:// one if your handset doesnt reply correctly to the notification or says it cant get it? Oct 06 09:02:49 I do not think so Oct 06 09:03:05 It just continues sitting at the provider's MMSC until you retrieve it Oct 06 09:03:18 frals: got the idea they have per-IMEI database on the operator... but how the reception capability is established? I think *sending* an MMS message marks the phone as capable to receive them on many operators. Oct 06 09:04:15 I am implementing the camera for nokia n900 to take picture and i have used * is shown in the correct widget */ Oct 06 09:04:16 gst_x_overlay_set_xwindow_id(GST_X_OVERLAY(data), Oct 06 09:04:16 GDK_WINDOW_XWINDOW(widget->window)); Oct 06 09:04:16 but there is an error "undefined symbol: gst_x_overlay_get_type Oct 06 09:04:16 " Oct 06 09:04:17 can anybody help me regarding this error how can i solved ? Oct 06 09:06:17 samad: Google to find out which package has that symbol and then make sure you have that installed? Oct 06 09:07:11 i have all pakage installed Oct 06 09:07:23 not compilation errot Oct 06 09:07:32 *eror Oct 06 09:07:47 but run time error Oct 06 09:07:58 samad: using pkg-config for the gst stuff? Oct 06 09:11:08 weird Oct 06 09:12:28 keesj , i have used : gconf-2.0 hildon-1 hildon-fm-2 gtk+-2.0 gtkmm-2.4 libosso gdk-2.0 gnome-vfs-2.0 libhildondesktop-1 hildonmm hildon-fmmm gstreamer-0.10 Oct 06 09:12:36 and libebook-1.2 alarm bluez libgwobex osso-gpsd osso-addressbook-1.0 gpsbt glib-2.0 Oct 06 09:12:48 bloody netsplits Oct 06 09:13:08 indeed Oct 06 09:13:23 frals: saw my message from before the split about cellmo-headers? Oct 06 09:13:30 negative Oct 06 09:13:46 keesj, i have used LIBRARIES=gconf-2.0 hildon-1 hildon-fm-2 gtk+-2.0 gtkmm-2.4 libosso gdk-2.0 gnome-vfs-2.0 libhildondesktop-1 hildonmm hildon-fmmm gstreamer-0.10 Oct 06 09:13:46 EXTRA_LIBRARIES=libebook-1.2 alarm bluez libgwobex osso-gpsd osso-addressbook-1.0 gpsbt glib-2.0 Oct 06 09:14:00 so please repeat Stskeepz :) Oct 06 09:14:01 frals: you'll want to grab maemo 5.0 sdk, look at nokia-binaries, and cellmo-icpr82-headers Oct 06 09:14:02 wazd: HELO? Oct 06 09:14:13 cool, ill do that Oct 06 09:14:15 RST38h: heya Oct 06 09:14:20 wazd: News. Oct 06 09:14:22 *starts virtualbox* Oct 06 09:14:23 'lo all) Oct 06 09:14:29 wazd: TI73 works. Oct 06 09:14:37 wazd: how long time are you without proper net btw? Oct 06 09:14:53 wazd: So, need to enable BOTH TI73 and TI83+SE on the menu and a faceplate for TI73 Oct 06 09:15:01 * RST38h is sorry for keeping wazd busy =( Oct 06 09:15:05 Stskeepz: tomorrow I'll be online) Oct 06 09:15:52 wazd: TI73 kbd looks like this: http://www.albion.edu/mathcs/MBollman/TI73Ex.gif Oct 06 09:15:53 kirma: yeah, im not sure either, id think they always send out the mms notification where the handset should answer its capabilities and then decides what to do - but im not sure.. im probably gonna mail my carrier and ask :p Oct 06 09:16:15 RST38h: np, it's better than watching stupid russian soap operas) Oct 06 09:17:26 wazd: Get Fringe from Torrent ;) Oct 06 09:17:48 Although it is kinda boring/formulaic too Oct 06 09:17:53 RST38h: I have NO connection!( Oct 06 09:18:27 RST38h: or should I dl it thru eddge?) Oct 06 09:20:52 wazd: That woulsd be twice cmore expensive than going to a moview theater, longer too =) Oct 06 09:21:35 Ministry of Defence's 'How To Stop Leaks' Document is Leaked Oct 06 09:21:51 hah Oct 06 09:22:28 Good morning all Oct 06 09:22:29 * RST38h is surprised UK still has ministry of defence 8) Oct 06 09:22:53 RST38h: our defense just makes up fake documents and leaks them to the public Oct 06 09:23:00 using google translate, of all things. Oct 06 09:23:40 I want to make a package where it will guide user during installation and will take user input ( Setting related parameter) for the application Oct 06 09:23:57 Any body any idea or link! Oct 06 09:24:13 I know that i have to use GtkAssistant........ Oct 06 09:24:20 But do not know how! Oct 06 09:24:36 any help would be appreciated! Oct 06 09:25:24 oh, the api links to 5.0-final is working now (might be old news) :) Oct 06 09:25:33 or well.. some of them anyway :P Oct 06 09:26:41 i'm waiting for whatever statement this SDK comes with Oct 06 09:29:18 "to get your nokia-binaries token, please be sure to have your birth certificate and that of your son at hand, then call 555..." Oct 06 09:29:36 of course you are supposed to call 666 Oct 06 09:29:39 RST38h: i think it would be as expensive as goin to the movie theater in fricking Tokyo :D Oct 06 09:29:52 and your son has to be at hand clothed for the sacrifice Oct 06 09:30:46 http://repository.maemo.org/stable/5.0/ hmm Oct 06 09:31:49 yeah Oct 06 09:31:51 look at the lists Oct 06 09:32:13 wazd: will be about r600 Oct 06 09:32:44 * wazd has finished most of Mer themee Oct 06 09:32:47 woo Oct 06 09:32:57 ok, first screenshot of the new sdk wins. Oct 06 09:33:01 wazd: Pricy, but not total murder like it would be in EU Oct 06 09:33:22 btw how do i browse the nokia-binaries on the site using my token? Oct 06 09:33:35 frals: i just edited my fremantle SDK and went into /var/lib/apt Oct 06 09:33:54 ah right :) Oct 06 09:33:54 freemantler: haven't seen screenshots yet but i wonder.. Oct 06 09:34:48 wonder if I should try to win... Oct 06 09:35:13 if you actually went all in and have the SDK act somewhat like a real system, i'll be surprised Oct 06 09:35:41 well, the race already started, quite a few seconds ago. Oct 06 09:36:44 No help? Oct 06 09:37:32 I want to make a package where it will guide user during installation and will take user input ( Setting related parameter) for the application. Any body any idea or link! I know that i have to use GtkAssistant.......But do not know how! any help would be appreciated! Oct 06 09:38:04 or i can use "HildonWizardDialog". Oct 06 09:38:17 freemantler: remember to installa the nokia-apps package, you'll get prettier screenshots with it installed Oct 06 09:44:13 any body? Oct 06 09:44:43 I know there are some gys who know but not answering me! Oct 06 09:46:20 that is because you have spent all your support credits Oct 06 09:50:06 means? Oct 06 09:50:40 vab nao na? Oct 06 09:51:03 RST38h: +1 Oct 06 09:51:40 not mean user input during package instalation is discouraged Oct 06 09:53:16 sarower: You should do that on first run. Oct 06 09:53:20 sarower: Not on installation Oct 06 09:54:05 X-Fade: Yah i can do that but who will run it first? Oct 06 09:54:44 sarower: ? Oct 06 09:54:54 E_MAEKNOSENSE Oct 06 09:55:10 Is that a Symbian error code? Oct 06 09:55:17 a government representative will run it first. Oct 06 09:55:45 X-Fade: Suppose i have done installation but should i do that when user will run the application first time? Oct 06 09:56:11 sarower: Yes? That should not be too hard? Oct 06 09:56:34 X-Fade: But is not it possible during installation? Oct 06 09:56:51 RST38h: i think you will be happy with new theme :) Oct 06 09:56:57 sarower: You should not bother users during installation. Oct 06 09:57:04 * RST38h salivates Oct 06 09:57:23 wazd: I can try running the thememaker here, if you want me to Oct 06 09:57:30 wazd, remember a good background too Oct 06 09:57:51 X-Fade: Ok, but if i want that the wizard will be run automatically when user finish installation... Oct 06 09:58:04 Is it possible? Oct 06 09:58:06 The only thing I haven't changed are desktop widgets Oct 06 09:58:21 Stskeeps: wide or 800x480? Oct 06 09:58:44 X-Fade: I do not want to wait for the user to open the application / wizard! Oct 06 09:58:55 X-Fade: You got me? Oct 06 09:59:14 panoramic i guess Oct 06 09:59:17 sarower: It is irrelevant what you want. You should not do that during installation. Oct 06 09:59:20 sarower: I do not want the developer to get on my nerves during installation. Oct 06 09:59:22 forcing users to do something is mean :( Oct 06 09:59:44 sarower: You should install with sane defaults. Oct 06 09:59:59 sarower: And then ask questions on first run, with a wizard if you like. Oct 06 10:00:28 X-Fade: Ok but after finishing the installation i want that the application will be run automatically. How it could be? Oct 06 10:01:14 sarower: Call it in your post install script? Oct 06 10:01:37 postinst? Oct 06 10:02:37 X-Fade: postinst? Oct 06 10:06:39 RST38h: I'll quickly remake applets and send you .png Oct 06 10:07:18 wazd: acknowledged Oct 06 10:07:57 RST38h: I'll use ubershiny buttons for pinkk theme :P Oct 06 10:08:38 wazd: 4x800x480 pink hello kitty background? =) Oct 06 10:09:00 RST38h: sure) Oct 06 10:12:23 ew Oct 06 10:14:02 Too much stuff in nokia-binaries. :( Oct 06 10:14:27 What the hell is tablet-browser doing there? Oct 06 10:15:07 it browses? Oct 06 10:15:21 has always been closed-sourced afaik Oct 06 10:15:39 * GAN800 was under the impression it would be open in Fremantle. Oct 06 10:15:43 I thought the UI only? Oct 06 10:16:23 Engine is open since it's Gecko Oct 06 10:16:40 but the UI was supposed to be open in Fremantle. Oct 06 10:17:08 GAN800: Do you want to beautify http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation a bit? Oct 06 10:18:38 hmm, was multi desktops in the last sdk? Oct 06 10:18:59 GAN800: together with the gitorious announcement we dont have to wait for next sdk release Oct 06 10:19:50 X-Fade, maybe later. Oct 06 10:19:51 We need to grab some stuff from the default mediawiki CSS. Oct 06 10:19:52 Those edit buttons look silly header sized. Oct 06 10:19:52 Stskeeps I just need to convince people to move over to gitorious now :-) Oct 06 10:20:25 Poor neglected Garage. Oct 06 10:20:37 tekojo: Start with moving HAM as it is already at gitorious ;) Oct 06 10:21:25 GAN800: too much stuff in the repository or the meta package? Oct 06 10:22:10 jjo, too much stuff that should be in free. Oct 06 10:22:50 ok, agreed Oct 06 10:23:11 the meta package pulls in some free stuff also Oct 06 10:23:45 * GAN800 really wants to know what's up with MicroB. Oct 06 10:23:57 but the repository is bigger than ever before now that it contains a bunch of applications as well Oct 06 10:24:21 I'm not going to be happy if it turns out we can't fix Nokia's idiotic UI decisions. Oct 06 10:24:31 Russian social ads are absolutely ridiculous Oct 06 10:25:00 Just saw ad bout how bad to drink alcohol Oct 06 10:25:34 AAnd as alcohol they showed fucking wine! Oct 06 10:25:57 Why not milk? Oct 06 10:26:21 because kefir has got lower alcohol content? =) Oct 06 10:27:07 it has? Oct 06 10:27:16 * jumpula stops drinking milk Oct 06 10:27:52 touchbook is definately on its way Oct 06 10:28:18 i should get it some time this week. it left california and is in route to chicago Oct 06 10:28:51 wazd: Speaking of social ads, check out this one: http://fms.komkon.org/graphics/Kitties.jpg Oct 06 10:29:02 Suicide promotion! Oct 06 10:29:12 Hmm is libjingle gone to closed now? Oct 06 10:29:35 haha Oct 06 10:29:39 id sure hope not Oct 06 10:31:00 that would like totally go against the principle if jingle :) Oct 06 10:31:13 i wonder if i can stick a webcam on the netbook Oct 06 10:31:47 i've never used a webcam in linux unlessyou count that crap gizmo Oct 06 10:35:10 * GeneralAntilles doesn't get tip calculators. Oct 06 10:44:29 Wow, shiny apps in the SDK,. Oct 06 10:45:50 Alright, how do I nuke my beta install so I can install this? Oct 06 10:46:53 ? Oct 06 10:47:01 General: run maemo-sdk Oct 06 10:47:05 and select an option Oct 06 10:48:12 Don't have one of those. Oct 06 10:48:12 gstreamer packages are colliding trying to do a dist-upgrade on the beta2. Oct 06 10:48:40 hmm.. libdrm-dev_2.3.1-3 Oct 06 10:49:17 any references to ofono? =) Oct 06 10:49:32 Too early for oFono. Oct 06 10:49:51 upgrade doesn't work flawlessly because of the gstreamer packages Oct 06 10:49:52 Quim said it is not going to be used in fremantle, rather fremantle parts will be used in ofoto Oct 06 10:49:53 Isn't libdrm a PowerVR thing? Oct 06 10:50:02 why? Oct 06 10:50:04 that's why it's recommended to reinstall if possible Oct 06 10:50:42 yeah, gstreamer didnt like me upgrading at all Oct 06 10:50:49 frals: direct rendering manager Oct 06 10:50:58 right, makes sense Oct 06 10:50:59 frals: not drm as in evil ;) Oct 06 10:51:04 :D Oct 06 10:51:05 ehehe Oct 06 10:51:14 frals: http://maemo.org/packages/view/libdrm-dev/ Oct 06 10:51:36 The upgrade for each SDK release really needs to be improved Oct 06 10:51:38 http://maemo.org needs a server upgrade again. <_< Oct 06 10:51:58 "Reinstall". But what about maintaining build environments for earlier Maemo versions etc. Oct 06 10:51:59 GeneralAntilles: Good, that is already planned :) Oct 06 10:53:17 Jaffa: reinstall the sdk Oct 06 10:53:29 old targets can stay Oct 06 10:53:33 maemo.org/packages sure is taking its time now :D Oct 06 10:54:13 I agree, the upgrade should work, but we rely on packages made by other people Oct 06 10:56:34 jjo: The official line is to reinstall Scratchbox. Previous instructions (haven't looked at these ones) has been light on re-installing the SDK, but maintaining Scratchbox (big assumptions that you know - and care deeply - about Scratchbox's capabilities ;-)) Oct 06 10:56:47 jjo: Really? I thought Maemo Devices rebuilt everything? Oct 06 10:56:54 well, there are some new sb packages Oct 06 10:57:10 but apt will upgrade them without losing data Oct 06 10:57:10 libgnome-menu-dev appears to be missing from hildon-desktop build-deps Oct 06 10:57:45 jjo: Apt in the host OS? Oct 06 10:57:57 yes Oct 06 10:58:51 ant the sb installer has an upgrade option also, but it works fine only with .deb packages Oct 06 10:59:44 Jaffa: what I ment about relyin on packages by other people is that the sdk team takes packages form the product side Oct 06 11:00:27 and the product is not always upgradeable nor do they aim to be, at least before the release Oct 06 11:00:49 hmmh, the sdk is still i386 only? Oct 06 11:01:11 kinda Oct 06 11:01:28 we haven't got 64-bit packages for scratchbox Oct 06 11:01:55 but like previously, the 32-bit packages will install and afaik work on 64-bit machines Oct 06 11:02:06 the installer has an option for that also ;) Oct 06 11:03:03 jjo: Is there a doc, linked to from somewhere (possibly hosted on the wiki) that says the best way of running Maemo 5 and Maemo 4 SDKs side-by-side? Install fremantle SDK using newest installer, then install rootstraps for earlier OS? Oct 06 11:04:45 Oops, SDK refers to "maemo" Oct 06 11:04:53 I can't think of a document for that, but I believe that after installing fremantle the latest diablo sdk installer can be used to get the diablo Oct 06 11:06:32 seems it can't Oct 06 11:06:45 not without installing the toolchains needed by diablo Oct 06 11:07:00 upgrading from diablo is easier that way Oct 06 11:08:23 jjo: So use Diablo installer, and then the Fremantle one on top? Oct 06 11:09:22 I haven't tried that either but it should work if you use the upgrade option of the fremantle sb installer Oct 06 11:09:37 I'll see if we can provide some documentation for that Oct 06 11:10:00 jjo: Thanks Oct 06 11:11:43 hi all Oct 06 11:12:23 can anybody help me regarding the following issue Oct 06 11:12:26 i am implementing camera for Nokia N900 and used Oct 06 11:12:26 gst_x_overlay_set_xwindow_id(GST_X_OVERLAY(data),GDK_WINDOW_XWINDOW(widget->window)); Oct 06 11:12:26 compilation error 0 Oct 06 11:12:26 but when run the appication it shows Oct 06 11:12:26 undefined symbol: gst_x_overlay_get_type Oct 06 11:17:25 samad, link against libgstinterfaces-0.10 Oct 06 11:18:22 Woo, we don't have tab on the keyboard so let's break it! Oct 06 11:19:35 ab, i am not clear about "link against libgstinterfaces-0.10" Oct 06 11:19:36 samad, which means you need to use gstreamer-interfaces-0.10 pkgconfig Oct 06 11:21:19 samad, your application uses GstXOverlay class. The interface helpers for this class are defined in gstreamer-interfaces library. Oct 06 11:21:26 jjo: I'd very much appreciate not to break my host :p Oct 06 11:21:52 does the sdk use sb2 or sb1? Oct 06 11:22:33 ab , i am checking Oct 06 11:23:48 Jaffa: what about using the virtual Maemo5 SDK? Oct 06 11:24:31 Jaffa: http://maemovmware.garage.maemo.org/ Oct 06 11:27:17 ab, i didn't find name gstreamer-interfaces-0.10 Oct 06 11:27:43 so is it missing pkg? Oct 06 11:28:54 Hi, I just tried to install the maemo5 sdk (beta2), but it fails with: http://nopaste.org/p/a01tZpMkob Oct 06 11:29:04 Any idea how to fix that? Oct 06 11:29:31 get final SDK instead Oct 06 11:29:32 Flyser: The final SDK has just been released. You might want to try that one. Oct 06 11:29:49 Corsac: why would you break your host? Oct 06 11:29:56 will do that. thanks :-) Oct 06 11:30:57 tbf: What about using it? Does it have Maemo 4 SDK too? Oct 06 11:31:03 jjo: I usually don't like to install programs without using apt, especially not in root folder and especially not outside of FHS Oct 06 11:31:19 I'd be fine with an apt-get installed scratchbox, with a chroot in my home folder Oct 06 11:31:30 X-Fade: Is there a working URL to the latets documentation? Oct 06 11:31:33 or a sb install in .local Oct 06 11:31:37 (i.e. SDK reference) Oct 06 11:31:40 samad, libgstreamer-plugins-base0.10-dev or so Oct 06 11:31:44 Jaffa: no idea. but you could install the Maemo 4 SDK natively or within another VM Oct 06 11:31:47 * Jaffa finds having a whole other environment a bit distasteful; and would rather the VM was exporting a display to my main desktop (or just running Eclipse or something fullscreen/lightweight WM) and using the host FS as much as possible. Oct 06 11:31:51 RST38h: wiki.maemo.org/Documentation ? Oct 06 11:31:52 but /scratchbox is not really fine :/ Oct 06 11:32:05 X-Fade: seemed tocover beta2 just one hour ago Oct 06 11:32:13 RST38h: Or http://maemo.org/api_refs/5.0/5.0-final/ ? Oct 06 11:32:17 * Jaffa started building a new VM which used the VM for the runtime environment, but data still stored on your main disk Oct 06 11:32:18 Corsac: for the 64-bit machines the installer will download dep pacages using wget and install them using dpgk if dpkg is available Oct 06 11:32:21 Ok, .png is ready Oct 06 11:32:36 Corsac: tar packages will only be used as last resort Oct 06 11:32:49 Jaffa: using a VM for the SDK also has the advantage that you don't always have to switch CPU target of your SDK permanently Oct 06 11:32:53 tbf: And two separate, isolated VMs won't help me test and deploy the same package on multiple SDKs easily Oct 06 11:33:12 hmh Oct 06 11:33:14 grep -c amd64 maemo-s* Oct 06 11:33:14 maemo-scratchbox-install_5.0.sh:0 Oct 06 11:33:14 maemo-sdk-install_5.0.sh:0 Oct 06 11:33:14 X-Fade: Aye aye sir Oct 06 11:33:31 * RST38h will have to wait until the final sdk is released for SB2 though Oct 06 11:33:52 ab, thanks a lot and hope i will get it from google search Oct 06 11:33:54 ha ok, I missed the /etc/apt/sources.list.d stuff Oct 06 11:35:03 * frals is trying to figure out where to hook in to the SMS/Call parts Oct 06 11:35:57 W: Failed to fetch http://scratchbox.org/debian/dists/maemo5-sdk/main/binary-amd64/Packages.gz 404 Not Found Oct 06 11:36:00 OK! Oct 06 11:36:04 RST38h: file is trying to leave my tablet) Oct 06 11:36:21 tbf: `sb-menu' isn't that bad. Got to switch between armel and x86 regularly when building & testing anyway Oct 06 11:36:28 http://scratchbox.org/debian/dists/maemo5-sdk/main/ >< Oct 06 11:36:51 wazd: =) Oct 06 11:36:54 Jaffa: this switching usually drives me nuts. Oct 06 11:36:55 RST38h: out Oct 06 11:36:56 tbf, Jaffa: in my experience the VM is much too slow -- at least for compiling about 80 packages (GPE, Opensync, Xsisusb for Chinook and Fremantle) each night Oct 06 11:36:56 Oct 06 11:37:29 Jaffa: but could be that i just have too many separate packages to rebuild ;-) Oct 06 11:37:33 Corsac: apt will not works because the lack of 64-bit packages Oct 06 11:37:54 Corsac: manually downloading and using dpkg with --force-architecture will Oct 06 11:37:58 I currently have Chinook and Fremantle Beta 2 SDK working in a single SB environment (on my 64-bit system) and I am sure we can make it work with the Final SDK as well Oct 06 11:38:03 jjo: Corsac: just run dpkg with "--nodeps" switch or how it is called Oct 06 11:38:38 jjo: Corsac: according to some people the i386 sb package works just fine on amd64 Oct 06 11:39:08 yeah well, until we properly support multiarch, no way I install i386 on my amd64 host Oct 06 11:39:11 jjo: Corsac: some of the sb scripts even check for running on 64 bit and do special stuff Oct 06 11:39:19 that's just awful Oct 06 11:39:51 Corsac: http://danielkitta.org/howto/maemo-amd64 Oct 06 11:40:29 Corsac: just be pragmatic ;-) Oct 06 11:41:05 Corsac: well, or repackage for amd64 and share :-D Oct 06 11:41:07 Is final SDK out? Oct 06 11:41:11 wazd: indeed Oct 06 11:41:33 tbf: do we have the .dsc? Oct 06 11:41:37 Can we please kill the floating midgard bar with fire? Oct 06 11:41:41 Stskeeps: cool, now I need to bend my hands in the right way) Oct 06 11:41:46 maemo sdk 5 final version released! Oct 06 11:41:56 It's impossible to browse maemo.org logged in. Oct 06 11:42:01 jjardon: old news ;p Oct 06 11:42:03 wazd: hehe Oct 06 11:42:06 Noway?! Oct 06 11:42:34 Corsac: it should be there. otherwise file a bug and let andre bug the right people :-D Oct 06 11:42:41 strange, no mention to GTK+ in "Available runtimes" :/ Oct 06 11:43:08 rtcom-eventlogger.. MMS logging.. hmm Oct 06 11:43:20 jjardon: probably 'cause the UI toolkit is called "Hildon"? ;-) Oct 06 11:43:23 gcobb: Thanks for the info Oct 06 11:43:32 tbf: W: Failed to fetch http://scratchbox.org/debian/dists/maemo5-sdk/main/source/Sources.gz 404 Not Found Oct 06 11:43:35 :) Oct 06 11:43:55 tbf, well, no mention to hildon either Oct 06 11:44:04 Stskeeps: rst will spread theme .deb around, too expensive for me) Oct 06 11:44:22 wazd: k Oct 06 11:44:23 Corsac: sucks. bug report time :-D Oct 06 11:45:52 Stskeeps: i've replaced icons with standard ones cause there was a strange bug - they were not shown Oct 06 11:46:11 Corsac: hmm! http://scratchbox.org/cgi-bin/darcsweb.cgi?r=1.0/scratchbox;a=tree;f=/debian Oct 06 11:46:26 wazd: er, standard ones? Oct 06 11:46:37 Corsac: seems you have to repackage from darcs instead of apt-get Oct 06 11:46:39 wazd: there is a bug where you needed to restart at least Oct 06 11:47:49 tbf: not really a problem though Oct 06 11:49:50 Stskeeps: oh Oct 06 11:50:30 Are there any plans for having OpenCL on maemo? Oct 06 11:51:55 tbf, http://go2.wordpress.com/?id=725X1342&site=flors.wordpress.com&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.forum.nokia.com%2Finfo%2Fsw.nokia.com%2Fid%2Fc05693a1-265c-4c7f-a389-fc227db4c465%2FMaemo_5_SDK.html Oct 06 11:53:11 jjardon: weird that it highlights Qt but forgets Hildon/GTK Oct 06 11:53:24 jjardon: seems some clueless wrote that page Oct 06 11:53:57 perhaps people just wants to forget about hildon ;) Oct 06 11:54:24 Stskeeps: problem: Qt is not quite there yet on Fremantle Oct 06 11:55:01 Stskeeps, and Fremantle is all hildon/gtk+, Qt support is not official I think Oct 06 11:55:06 Stskeeps: you have to jump through quite some loops to make Qt apps follow the fremantle layout guide... Oct 06 11:55:31 Stskeeps: where as Hildon provides all the layout guide convenience API Oct 06 11:55:51 jjardon: qt's in the SDK though Oct 06 11:55:56 jjardon: do me it seems the author of that page mixed up Fremantle and Harmattan Oct 06 11:56:13 Stskeeps: but not the featured toolkit yet Oct 06 11:56:18 qt is the hype word of the year, regardless of where it is at on the devices Oct 06 11:56:41 glass: at least some upper nokians believe that :-D Oct 06 11:56:50 Stskeeps, As far as I know the default toolkit dor fremantle is still fildon/gtk, in harmattan will be Qt Oct 06 11:57:19 tbf: yeh.. they don't do much hands on stuff though... it seems Oct 06 11:57:54 jjardon: yes yes, note my smiley :P Oct 06 11:57:56 VDVsx: Ping? Oct 06 11:58:03 glass: my C++ loving boss was relatively enthusiastic about the qt thing, now he just mumbles all the time: "should start a project to port Qt to C++. maybe call it qtmm." Oct 06 11:58:20 dneary, pong Oct 06 11:58:48 tbf: hehe Oct 06 11:58:50 tbf: pff, doesn't build Oct 06 11:58:59 the packaging looks awful :/ Oct 06 11:59:02 znyway, have to go Oct 06 11:59:03 seeya Oct 06 12:01:16 Stskeeps, oh, yes, I've seen it ;). Sorry, I'm a bit frustrated because I think It's a big fail from nokia to not mention hildon/gtk+ in his rel notes Oct 06 12:01:55 jjardon: probably right Oct 06 12:08:33 * RST38h reyawns Oct 06 12:11:50 wazd: Trying to install Thememaker Oct 06 12:22:06 Woo, I've made looped background :) Oct 06 12:22:20 Flying hellokitties? =) Oct 06 12:22:46 Not that hardcore :) Oct 06 12:22:46 Sorry, can't quite generate the .deb here: system is not quite compatible with what ThemeMaker expects, will have to wait until evening Oct 06 12:23:16 where can I find instructions to install the final sdk ? Oct 06 12:23:20 The .desktops for the pano backgrounds are obnoxious. Oct 06 12:23:29 Makes it hard to just host images. Oct 06 12:23:54 aol_, they should be up on Forum Nokia. Oct 06 12:25:14 ah right, thanks. For some reason i was looking in maemo.org Oct 06 12:25:59 hm, qt-maemo in cph Oct 06 12:26:32 aol_, it's all just moved to Forum Nokia. Oct 06 12:26:49 nice thing I spend whole yesterday installing the previous sdk and to have Qt dev environment :P Oct 06 12:26:54 hehe Oct 06 12:27:00 luckily I'm paid by hour Oct 06 12:28:34 gnuton: ping? Oct 06 12:29:17 * Stskeeps ponders if 'grandma's slideshow' presentation style is bad Oct 06 12:29:57 http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Using_Data_Sharing/Sharing_Plug-in has a mistake Oct 06 12:30:10 Section: user/other <==== Oct 06 12:30:42 RST38h: Nice find. Can you please file a bug? Oct 06 12:30:49 Filing. Oct 06 12:31:17 X-Fade, hey man! :D Oct 06 12:31:48 gnuton: Now that qt is in SDK, can you please make sure that that the one in extras-devel matches? Oct 06 12:31:51 RST38h: url? Oct 06 12:32:01 gnuton: qt in SDK is newer than in extras-devel. Oct 06 12:32:27 Myrtti: above Oct 06 12:32:32 X-Fade, I know. you can remove old Qt packages we have in extras-devel Oct 06 12:32:38 Ctrl+F and search for user/other Oct 06 12:33:02 X-Fade, all of them. Oct 06 12:33:32 RST38h: mind being really nice and explain what's wrong with that? Oct 06 12:33:53 Myrtti: That is an illegal section. Oct 06 12:33:57 * Myrtti hasn't got teh brain today Oct 06 12:34:05 X-Fade: and it should be... ? Oct 06 12:34:10 Myrtti: https://wiki.maemo.org/Package_Categories Oct 06 12:34:52 never mind then, I'll let someone else fix it in the LaTeX then Oct 06 12:35:01 * Myrtti returns to fix the scripts Oct 06 12:35:06 X-Fade: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5280 Oct 06 12:35:17 Myrtti: user/other is no longer a valid repo section Oct 06 12:35:45 Myrtti: The repo management is really anal now about section names, so it will never let you move such a package out of Extras-devel Oct 06 12:35:59 It's just used by h-a-m as a catch-all for anything using invalid sections. Oct 06 12:36:16 RST38h: and since I know jack shit about packaging and what the correct repo section might be, I can't correct it to what it should be, but I guess jatikka will know what to do. Oct 06 12:36:26 * Myrtti gets more tea Oct 06 12:36:47 Myrtti: I think we can handle it between ourselves. Let me check where other sharing plugins are placed... Oct 06 12:37:12 RST38h: guess where, not sharing plugins ;) Oct 06 12:37:13 RST38h, probably just Nokia being spiteful for us having shot down user/sharing-plugins :roll: Oct 06 12:37:45 RST38h: right Oct 06 12:39:21 General: Look who you are talking too, I still want user/emulation =) Oct 06 12:40:52 RST38h, we're already having to scroll for 2 categories in Fremantle. Oct 06 12:40:57 An odd number just wont work. :P Oct 06 12:42:52 General: Icons. Llike on Iphone. Oct 06 12:43:17 * RST38h hopes that with h-a-m open sourced someone will eventually do icons Oct 06 12:45:25 Myrtti: should be in user/multimedia Oct 06 12:45:41 * Myrtti fixes it in the source Oct 06 12:45:52 I'm sure someone else fixes it too, but oh well Oct 06 12:46:00 atleast I don't need to watch it in my trunk Oct 06 12:47:17 hey Oct 06 12:47:59 RST38h: could you upload wazd's template.png somewhere? Oct 06 12:48:08 h-a-m has been open source since day 1. Oct 06 12:48:10 (if you have a final one) Oct 06 12:48:27 RST38h, and the iPhone doesn't use icons for categories. Oct 06 12:48:52 right, nevermind Oct 06 12:49:04 there isn't such a section in my sources. Oct 06 12:49:17 * Myrtti does a grep Oct 06 12:51:50 RST38h: can you plz forward that png to Stskeeps? Oct 06 12:52:28 RST38h: and how's it overall? Oct 06 12:52:56 btw, it's a wiki, you can fix it yourself to that Oct 06 12:54:14 I guess this would need to be reviewed as well... http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging%2C_Deploying_and_Distributing Oct 06 12:56:00 right, so. the final sdk is out, is the 'pre final' image updated also or is that still beta2? Oct 06 12:56:45 I second that question, vesa! Oct 06 12:57:04 'Norair agrees. “If they can successfully get half the power of an Intel chip with a cluster of microcontrollers, it will be a great success,” he says, “because the power consumption can be so low on these clusters and they have a level of robustness we haven’t seen yet.”' Oct 06 12:57:06 hahahahahahahahahahah Oct 06 12:58:02 well they do have the power of an intel chip now. from 1981.. Oct 06 12:58:35 vesa: I tried that pre final vmware image yesterday and it still had the beta2 sdk Oct 06 12:58:45 it's also dated in september Oct 06 12:58:48 wazd: A moment Oct 06 12:58:55 wazd: buttons still look too shiny to me Oct 06 12:58:56 also Qt was not installed Oct 06 12:58:58 Hi Oct 06 12:59:04 looks clean and nice overally Oct 06 12:59:07 Is luarvique around? Oct 06 12:59:10 Stskeeps: email? Oct 06 12:59:13 I can't remember IRC nicks Oct 06 12:59:16 RST38h: carsten.munk@gmail.com Oct 06 12:59:19 dneary: Who raised me from slumber? Oct 06 12:59:33 dneary: have you brought a sacrifical lamb? Oct 06 12:59:33 RST38h: Bug #5280 Oct 06 12:59:35 aol_: yeah, reading that flors post has a comment that says 'were uploading it right now' Oct 06 12:59:39 dneary: a moment Oct 06 12:59:42 A sacrificial comment :) Oct 06 12:59:48 here's to hoping they have a nice phat pipe =) Oct 06 13:00:06 What's wrong with "user/other" as a section in H-A-M? Oct 06 13:00:23 if I wanted to get the sources of the libsoup-2.4 package in Fremantle, where would I find them please? Oct 06 13:00:39 dneary: repository promotion script apparently does not agree with you Oct 06 13:00:50 RST38h: Packaging docs do Oct 06 13:00:51 vesa: ah. I wonder if I should wait for that then Oct 06 13:00:52 dneary: So that second reference should be fixed as well Oct 06 13:00:56 I started building my own Oct 06 13:01:02 dneary: then fix the packaging docs. Should I file another bug? Oct 06 13:01:05 Or hildon-application-manager should Oct 06 13:01:24 Let me ask Jeremiah, we'll get some kind of answer on whether it's valid or not. Oct 06 13:01:42 Can you paste the error from the repository promotion script into a comment on that bug, please? Oct 06 13:01:47 jeremiah: Ping? Oct 06 13:03:05 dneary: I do not remember the error and can't currently recreate it Oct 06 13:03:16 dneary: X-Fade or jeremiah are your best bets here Oct 06 13:03:40 dneary: illegal section Oct 06 13:03:44 RST38h: Well, it'll be the proof that user/other is not allowed Oct 06 13:04:03 X-Fade: Is user/other supposed to be a valid section? Oct 06 13:04:09 dneary: no Oct 06 13:04:27 wazd: do you have the big slide with mer ports somewhere? Oct 06 13:04:28 dneary: https://wiki.maemo.org/Package_Categories Oct 06 13:05:37 Stskeeps: yep Oct 06 13:05:58 dneary: Hi there! Oct 06 13:05:59 X-Fade: That should agree with http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging%2C_Deploying_and_Distributing#Sections Oct 06 13:05:59 wazd: in psd? i need a plainer version without the top and bottom bars Oct 06 13:06:54 Hi jeremiah Oct 06 13:06:56 RST38h: buttons are identical to vkb Oct 06 13:07:04 X-Fade: In that guide, it says "If the package's section starts "user/", but is not any of the above, the Application Manager forces them into an "Other" section. " Oct 06 13:07:13 Doesn't that imply that user/other should be OK? Oct 06 13:07:27 dneary: No. Oct 06 13:07:40 dneary: It forces them in Other, but it should be used. Oct 06 13:07:55 I made it to extras! Oct 06 13:08:03 :) Oct 06 13:08:25 wb qwerty12 Oct 06 13:08:43 X-Fade: So what is your suggestion for the packaging guide, and for the example plug-in? Oct 06 13:09:05 Thank you, Stskeeps Oct 06 13:09:12 jeremiah: Perhaps you could have a look at bug #5280 and let me know what your take is, please? Oct 06 13:09:20 Yes, of course. Oct 06 13:09:28 jeremiah: Docs disagree with hildon app manager Oct 06 13:09:54 Which docs? Oct 06 13:12:41 wazd: I really have to see how it looks in action, will postpone feedback until this evening =) Oct 06 13:13:43 dneary: Well, we really need to make sure whatever we say in the docs is consistent with whatever automated test X-Fade is using Oct 06 13:13:55 Yes :) Oct 06 13:13:58 So that the package builds and is uploaded. :) Oct 06 13:14:05 jeremiah: The question is which one should change Oct 06 13:14:12 And to what Oct 06 13:14:42 dneary: To put it short and blunt: all occurances of user/other in the docs have to be replaced with correct section names Oct 06 13:15:10 (and no, attempts to prove that user/other is still legal will not succeed) Oct 06 13:15:29 I like user/Accessories Oct 06 13:15:44 In the case of that bug the right place is user/multimedia Oct 06 13:15:55 But other occurances may require other sections Oct 06 13:16:40 jeremiah: That is even worse Oct 06 13:16:49 jeremiah: All lowercase please. Oct 06 13:16:49 E: CPU transparency method 'qemu-arm-sb' not found. <- got this error while installing Oct 06 13:17:03 Yeah, typo Oct 06 13:17:34 RST38h: I'm only referring to the latest docs - the "Package categories" page Oct 06 13:17:52 If "other" is there, it is wrong Oct 06 13:17:52 RST38h: So that needs to be changed to remove any suggestion that user/anything is OK Oct 06 13:18:02 Or, alternatively, the promotion scripts are wrong Oct 06 13:18:15 dneary: More or less, yes, although check with X-Fade Oct 06 13:18:16 These categories have been decided on for Fremantle. Oct 06 13:18:20 * RST38h did not try arbitrary names Oct 06 13:18:29 Next change opportunity -> Harmattan Oct 06 13:18:30 RST38h: "If the package's section starts "user/", but is not any of the above, the Application Manager forces them into an "Other" section. " Oct 06 13:18:33 Would try user/dies just for the heck of it though Oct 06 13:18:58 X-Fade: Is what Dave says still correct? Oct 06 13:19:32 Sorry, can we discuss this at another time? There are more important issues I need to look at now. Oct 06 13:19:57 I do have DIABLO_ARMEL and all that stuff, but still getting the previous error and : Scratchbox CPU transparency method for ARMEL is present... no Oct 06 13:20:15 It looks like we have to reproduce the list of valid categories in the packaging guide, and I'll change the example plug-in to use "utilities" Oct 06 13:20:26 Sounds good Oct 06 13:20:41 dneary: The example plugin should go to user/multimedia where other media sharing plugins are right now Oct 06 13:24:13 dneary, the valid sections are on the wiki. Oct 06 13:24:20 RST38h: Fixed Oct 06 13:24:22 dneary, the packaging guide is outdated Oct 06 13:24:24 dneary, and Nokia is wrong. Oct 06 13:24:33 GeneralAntilles: There are different pages in the wiki with different information :) Oct 06 13:24:41 dneary, when I tried to get the guide updated to match the valid sections, the response was "docs follow tools" Oct 06 13:25:08 dneary, as the tools have only recently been updated, we're waiting on a doc update to match. Oct 06 13:25:26 dneary, Package_Categories has been the authoritative source for a very long time now. Oct 06 13:25:41 dneary, I assume you were there for that discussion at the beginning of the year? Oct 06 13:26:03 GeneralAntilles: I followed it, yes Oct 06 13:26:25 But we're now talking not about what the tool does, but whether there's confusion in the docs Oct 06 13:26:34 anyway, official guide changed. Oct 06 13:26:49 Ooops Oct 06 13:29:05 There's always confusion in the docs. ;) Oct 06 13:29:48 * GeneralAntilles grumbles at more CamelCase on the wiki. Oct 06 13:30:31 Interesting theming http://maemo.gitorious.org/ Oct 06 13:31:04 Don't look at me ;) Oct 06 13:32:00 Ugh Oct 06 13:32:02 "http://Maemo.org" Oct 06 13:32:07 In the footer. Oct 06 13:43:38 bbias - toilet Oct 06 13:44:28 what's that smell? is that a new sdk?? =) Oct 06 13:45:13 I think it may be dave on the toilet. Oct 06 13:45:25 that's the smell of the missing vmware image! Oct 06 13:45:42 Back Oct 06 13:45:50 Do you guys have nothing better to talk about? Oct 06 13:46:23 Can we start with an agenda for the summit meeting? Things that the council wants to bring up with us, with Nokia, that we want to bring up with ye, etc? Oct 06 13:49:18 wazd: got a icon template too? Oct 06 13:51:25 hmm. How good is Maemo 5 at running arbitrary X apps? Oct 06 13:51:36 will they appear in the task switcher? Oct 06 13:51:51 (since they don't in Maemo 4 - and that's the main downside of using them) Oct 06 13:52:06 Stskeeps: not yet Oct 06 13:52:10 wazd: k Oct 06 13:52:24 ccooke: StartupWMClass in its desktop file is your friend (for Maemo 4) Oct 06 13:52:27 +field Oct 06 13:52:56 the sdk looks frking awesome Oct 06 13:53:03 any screenshots out yet? Oct 06 13:53:06 anything I need to know before I delete my current FREMANTLE_* targets? :) Oct 06 13:53:19 qwerty12: oho. And after that, they'll work as well as native? Oct 06 13:53:20 Stskeeps: http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Final_SDK/Discover_Maemo_5 Oct 06 13:53:29 are there Ubuntu packages for the fixed Xephyr (click on entry, crashes with segfault)? Oct 06 13:53:42 javispedro: ah yes Oct 06 13:53:43 ccooke: Well, they'll show up in the task switcher at least :p Oct 06 13:54:02 javispedro: not all of it OSS obviously but :) Oct 06 13:54:30 Stskeeps: even then quite a bit an improvement. If there are x86 versions of "nokia-binaries" I wonder if "installing Maemo on x86" now makes sense. Oct 06 13:54:46 javispedro: license pretty much prohibits the fun things sadly :P Oct 06 13:54:47 qwerty12: heh. that's good. As long as you can get from the app to the task switcher, then... Oct 06 13:54:53 but you can do it of your own experiments Oct 06 13:54:57 Stskeeps: ah, didn't look at it yet :P Oct 06 13:54:59 (is there a keyboard shortcut to bring up the task switcher?) Oct 06 13:55:18 javispedro: but yes, it's awesome Oct 06 13:55:39 * javispedro deletes beta2 Oct 06 13:55:48 ccooke: sym-backspace Oct 06 13:56:21 lovely Oct 06 13:56:24 that's good enough, then Oct 06 13:56:56 hmm. And there's java. I wonder if the KGS client will run :-) Oct 06 13:56:59 wazd: and of course my theme maker bombs too Oct 06 13:57:11 aw, certman gone. Oct 06 13:58:12 oh, qt on the sdk now. but it won't be on device I guess? Oct 06 14:00:33 javispedro: Nokia Applications repository. Oct 06 14:00:45 X-Fade, ah, ta. Oct 06 14:00:45 javispedro: Which is enabled by default on the device. Oct 06 14:01:32 A lot of shared applictions (sdk/device) have been moved to Applications. Oct 06 14:03:00 ctrl-backspace works in the SDK Oct 06 14:03:40 * javispedro gets lost in nokia forum :S Oct 06 14:06:59 * javispedro notes release notes still have the vdso support warning. Oct 06 14:07:02 sigh. Oct 06 14:08:22 hm Oct 06 14:08:36 the only interesting thing in andromeda is the purple one Oct 06 14:08:37 Stskeeps: nnot working?? Oct 06 14:08:44 wazd: now it does Oct 06 14:09:10 I'm cursed to type double letters( Oct 06 14:09:26 at least you don't have to prepare two presentations Oct 06 14:09:30 Don't you mean "leters" Oct 06 14:10:21 qwerty12: fuck!1 Oct 06 14:12:52 Stskeeps: I'm drawwing some icons noww Oct 06 14:20:23 * GAN800 wishes somebody would fix up FBReader. Oct 06 14:20:55 ~flashing Oct 06 14:20:56 rumour has it, flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware Oct 06 14:21:19 GAN800: Can you create a gitorious product under website? Oct 06 14:22:04 X-Fade, yeah, one sec. Oct 06 14:22:15 GeneralAntilles: And assign to Tero by default? Oct 06 14:25:28 Jaffa: hello, I'm completely new to maemo. I'm building rygel which needs a couple of updated dependencies, among others vala which you seem to maintain.... I'm looking into this "mud-building" thing... could you possibly give me some hints on how you'd like me to handle an update of vala? I need 0.7.7 to be able to build libgee (which I've based off the debian package). Oct 06 14:28:37 X-Fade, done. Oct 06 14:29:04 GeneralAntilles: I got your bug and I can honestly say that I have nothing to do with that service ;) Oct 06 14:30:50 * frals is trying to figure out how to hook into the recieved sms part... Oct 06 14:31:32 fatal^: Vala 0.7.7 will go to extras-devel this evening Oct 06 14:31:40 Jaffa: awesome! Oct 06 14:32:06 Hi folks.. Oct 06 14:32:17 Jaffa: I also need to update packages which are part of the SDK, libsoup and gupnp ... do you have any hints for me on how I should handle that properly? Oct 06 14:32:40 in between all those "maemo fansites", there's one that's trying hard to attract users by offering "Introduction to maemo development tutorials"... in Java ME. Oct 06 14:32:50 fatal^: Exactly the same version as in SDK? Oct 06 14:32:52 fatal^: Hmm. Tricky. Possibly ask on maemo-developers and/or ask Jeremiah Oct 06 14:33:29 I have a doubt: I compiled a new kernel version to my N810 and reflash it. but for some reason, the entry /sys/kernel/debug is not there :( Oct 06 14:33:44 X-Fade: I need gupnp 0.13 (rather then 0.12.8 as in the SDK) and libsoup 2.26 (rather then 2.24 as in the sdk). Oct 06 14:34:34 fatal^: remember that you don't want to update the existing gupnp packages Oct 06 14:34:35 fatal^: Ok, let me check what versions are on device. Oct 06 14:34:49 fatal^: You can't upgrade system libs. Oct 06 14:34:58 javispedro: so, what did they teach? Oct 06 14:35:01 on final SDK, 0.12.8-0maemo1+0m5 Oct 06 14:35:13 RST38h: of course, how to code a midlet. Oct 06 14:35:29 they are too busy making the site and putting all the adsense banners they don't even have time to read about the platform. Oct 06 14:35:43 and just assume it's going to be like symbian. Oct 06 14:40:21 fatal^: about libsoup, i guess it should be ok to provide a separate (new) package Oct 06 14:40:40 javispedro: good to see the interest in the platform though, even by clueless idiots =) Oct 06 14:40:44 zeenix: Are you sure it isn't used on device? Oct 06 14:40:52 * RST38h ==> home Oct 06 14:40:53 zeenix: you mean a package that is co-installable with the existing libsoup? Oct 06 14:41:01 fatal^: we can fix the conflict/dep when new libsoup is provided as part of SDK/fremantle upgrade Oct 06 14:41:13 Otherwise you should rename the lib. Oct 06 14:41:28 X-Fade: it *is* used Oct 06 14:41:41 zeenix: Then upgrading is a no. Oct 06 14:41:42 X-Fade: don't remember if the so name is bumped or not Oct 06 14:41:53 libsoup hasn't bumped soname Oct 06 14:42:09 gupnp has... so maybe I'll get away with just disabling the -dev package there... Oct 06 14:42:09 damn! Oct 06 14:42:49 Well, you can upgrade but that breaks SSU. Oct 06 14:43:10 is there no way to get updates into the platform? Since the ABI is the same it should be smooth sailing just updating it... no need for changing any other packages. Oct 06 14:43:44 up so far, getting updates for libs hasn't been easy at all.... i don't if that's going to change with fremantle. Oct 06 14:44:06 fatal^: in fact, i'll try first if you can code around the dependency on the new version. Oct 06 14:46:55 X-Fade: we have upgraded libsoup in here already. the problem is that it'll only be available to outside people in an SSU upgrade Oct 06 14:47:33 zeenix: Yeah, isn't life great ;) Oct 06 14:48:11 zeenix: Sometimes repository management is a pain. Oct 06 14:48:17 X-Fade: so could there be a workaround for this issue Oct 06 14:48:22 zeenix: And the larger we get... Oct 06 14:48:56 i can tell you the exact release and package names of the libsoup that will be coming in the SSU upgrade Oct 06 14:49:24 and you allow fatal^ to provide packages of the same name and version Oct 06 14:49:31 zeenix: Problem is that if you upload it to extras-devel now, it will trigger an upgrade. Oct 06 14:49:54 zeenix: And break SSU, so the device will never get any updates anymore. Oct 06 14:50:32 uh? Oct 06 14:50:46 weren't safeguards implemented in h-a-m? Oct 06 14:50:59 javispedro: Yeah, it won't show the update. Oct 06 14:51:16 javispedro: But if you force install it, the device broken. Oct 06 14:51:21 heh. Oct 06 14:51:32 X-Fade: my libsoup package has lower version number then the nokia packages, so it should work... unless you also replaced dpkg --compare-versions with some home-brew... ? Oct 06 14:51:34 osso-software-version meta package will be removed. Oct 06 14:52:02 fatal^: osso-software-version has a strict dependency on a version Oct 06 14:52:34 (=1231abc) Oct 06 14:54:08 seems someone came up with a "brilliant" idea to avoid breakage which is creating an impossible situation. :/ Oct 06 14:54:39 ah, the "chicken-like" algorithms ;) Oct 06 14:55:48 fatal^: Yes, glad it wasn't me. Oct 06 14:57:18 Not all applications have to deal with it luckily. But anything that is in the system by default does. Oct 06 14:57:43 X-Fade: so can't we keep this in testing repo until there is an SSU upgrade with new libsoup package? Oct 06 14:58:00 zeenix: It won't even get in there ;) Oct 06 14:58:06 errr.. Oct 06 14:58:14 bah Oct 06 14:58:50 how about I rename gupnp and libsoup packages, install in /opt/ (or something) and link my dependencies to that rather then the system provided libs? Oct 06 14:58:58 fatal^: so i guess we are only left with the option of setting up a private repo for rygel? Oct 06 14:58:59 is there any knowledge on where the swap file is located on the N900? Oct 06 14:59:11 fatal^: ah Oct 06 14:59:12 fatal^: renaming libs works. Oct 06 14:59:22 fatal^: that sounds good enough Oct 06 14:59:25 fatal^: Ugly, but perhaps the most sane. Oct 06 14:59:26 just made my first app with Qt Creator for N900 :) \o/ Oct 06 14:59:27 if it works :) Oct 06 15:00:09 I guess the devices has enough storage to not have a problem with the unneccesary overhead... Oct 06 15:00:23 aol_: woo :) Oct 06 15:00:40 is /opt a suitable place or how is the storage partitioned? Oct 06 15:00:45 fatal^: that puts quite a new light on the /opt issue I did not imagine. Oct 06 15:01:11 fatal^: btw, considered static linking? Oct 06 15:01:40 i wonder when they will have Maemo debugging in Qt Creator Oct 06 15:01:49 I really like the IDE they have Oct 06 15:02:23 but seems a bit disconnected from mobile world right now Oct 06 15:02:39 fatal^: Yes, /opt is storage space. Oct 06 15:03:00 javispedro: that would be another option..... although I think I'll try to avoid that. Oct 06 15:03:04 can anybody share a pointer to docs about GSM/phone API on meamo5 please Oct 06 15:03:17 DocScrutinizer: go check nokia-binaries? Oct 06 15:03:41 fatal^: nearly the same as putting the DSOs in /opt, but then may be easier depending on if you want to make multiple packages. Oct 06 15:03:47 Stskeeps: first I like to know which binaries to check ;-) Oct 06 15:03:56 DocScrutinizer: cellmo* is probably a good choice Oct 06 15:04:27 Stskeeps: is there any kind of API to e.g. send a SMS from my own app? Oct 06 15:04:30 juego de boxeo online http://www.kobox.org/kobox-fande-Nourine.html Oct 06 15:04:31 javispedro: I don't think I need it multiple time, but I'm a community kind of guy... maybe someone else needs it and we don't need a *third* version of it .. ;P Oct 06 15:04:55 fatal^: touché :) Oct 06 15:04:58 Stskeeps: or find out about the signal strength etc Oct 06 15:06:09 Stskeeps: http://maemo.org/development/sdks/maemo_5_api_documentation/ isn't very well documented - I even have to guess what the subsystems are supposed to be for Oct 06 15:06:16 X-Fade: thanks for the guidance.. I'll see if I can put something together that I can make available via the garage... Oct 06 15:06:34 DocScrutinizer: if you find anything in there about how to take control over a received sms, give me a yell please ;) Oct 06 15:07:06 frals: heh, sure ;-D Oct 06 15:07:39 fatal^: Sorry not to have a better solution. Oct 06 15:08:43 fatal^: It is a battle I'm still fighting :) Oct 06 15:10:43 * frals curses the small screen of his n95 Oct 06 15:11:17 Not optimal to read documentation on :( **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Oct 06 15:14:14 2009 Oct 06 15:14:50 ouch Oct 06 15:15:05 there's quite a typo in the maemo 5 sdk installation instructions Oct 06 15:15:07 http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo5_Final_Installation Oct 06 15:15:12 grep for "XARMEL" [sic] Oct 06 15:15:55 * javispedro notices he can edit and edits. Oct 06 15:18:48 does anyone know whats going on with the x server crashing when i click a text input field for example Oct 06 15:19:39 rikshot-_, http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Final_SDK_Installation#Known_Issues_in_the_SDK Oct 06 15:20:26 ah Oct 06 15:20:42 so i should upgrade ubuntu Oct 06 15:21:08 or xephyr, they say. Oct 06 15:22:36 wazd: testing theme Oct 06 15:24:48 wazd: did away from the mer logo in the top? Oct 06 15:24:55 hmm, im developing this on mac with the esbox virtual image ubuntu, and im using the latest xquartz x11... Oct 06 15:25:31 wazd: i like though Oct 06 15:25:43 rikshot-_, you mean Apple's X11 crashes? O.o Oct 06 15:26:18 lost its connection to the display 10.0.1.188:2.0; most likely the X server was shut down or you killed/destroyed the application. <- that ip is my computers ip... so it seems so Oct 06 15:27:28 you have to run the SDK UI under Xephyr (which you may then run in the Ubuntu vm or Apple X11 (afaik)). Oct 06 15:38:29 ok, the sdk is definitely slick Oct 06 15:38:38 ++ to whoever decided to include the device nokia font. Oct 06 15:38:46 some layouts used to break here due to that... Oct 06 15:38:57 It's been installable for a while in Beta 2 ;) Oct 06 15:39:22 :P :) Oct 06 15:39:34 ah, i didn't have the latest x11 for mac, updating it solved the issue Oct 06 15:39:48 rikshot-_, ah, interesting think to know. Oct 06 15:40:08 yeah, 2.4.0 works fine Oct 06 15:40:18 * javispedro arghs to the palette swap bug. Oct 06 15:46:26 fscinkg damn sleak phone. I want it already. :D Oct 06 15:58:04 Stskeeps: I've made even cooler looped background :) Oct 06 15:58:11 hehe Oct 06 15:59:07 wazd: messaging looks odd but yeah.. white background Oct 06 15:59:37 Hmmm? Oct 06 16:00:25 an IM is white Oct 06 16:00:49 wazd: i'll show you tomorrow Oct 06 16:01:06 how come everyone's over the screen size now? Oct 06 16:01:18 mavhc: shiny device effect Oct 06 16:02:53 im not really over it, reading books being the main use of my n810 :| Oct 06 16:03:03 guess i'll lug both around Oct 06 16:03:29 * Stskeeps probably would keep his n810 around Oct 06 16:03:32 you can never have enough tablets Oct 06 16:03:43 ...until you OD :) Oct 06 16:03:52 om nom nom :) Oct 06 16:04:59 wazd: http://www.daimi.au.dk/~cvm/polished2.png Oct 06 16:05:06 (563 kb, my apologies) Oct 06 16:07:41 .jpg maybe?) Oct 06 16:08:05 maybe :P anyway, it works under mer Oct 06 16:11:32 Stskeeps: so hows it for you? Oct 06 16:11:39 it's decent so far Oct 06 16:12:01 i like the theming Oct 06 16:24:42 hi, how do i install the new sdk on a non debian linux box, for instance opensuse Oct 06 16:25:05 palm creates an official way to bypass the app store: http://investor.palm.com/releasedetail.cfm?ReleaseID=413826 Oct 06 16:25:38 (the pre app catalog, or whatever its called) Oct 06 16:26:08 javispedro: they did get a lot of bad press on the OSS stuff Oct 06 16:26:43 yeah, I remember that "tip calculator" app :) Oct 06 16:27:27 they're unleashed a web full of .install-like files now. Oct 06 16:27:41 Stskeeps: anything not skinned? Oct 06 16:28:18 javispedro: I prefer Quim's blog post with the Terminal screenshot :) Oct 06 16:28:18 wazd: i think everything is skinned but it looks awkward in places Oct 06 16:29:06 :( Oct 06 16:29:06 qwerty12: I prefer that video with qgil using your Transmission port ;) Oct 06 16:29:42 'Twas Jussi, and alas all it got was the display of its icon on the desktop :p Oct 06 16:30:02 no ikea catalogs? :( Oct 06 16:30:13 * qwerty12 is fixing the UI lockup bug, introduced with 1.75 :\ Oct 06 16:30:32 Heh, I'm surprised people actually share them :/ Oct 06 16:31:08 maeeemo, just some oak and some pine and a handful of .. finns? Oct 06 16:31:29 + vodka Oct 06 16:32:35 * javispedro glazes at new version of osso-games-startup Oct 06 16:32:36 not using a GtkFixed anymore. :) Oct 06 16:51:07 Shit. My passport shipped. Oct 06 16:52:24 ick, will you get it in time? Oct 06 16:54:38 I dunno Oct 06 16:54:44 I'm gonna call the post office and see if I can get them to hold it there. Oct 06 16:55:28 wait Oct 06 16:55:31 GAN800 == GeneralAntilles? Oct 06 16:55:38 Yeah Oct 06 16:55:43 * luke-jr fails Oct 06 16:57:35 hi guys Oct 06 16:57:49 as usual I have a stupid question Oct 06 16:57:55 indeed Oct 06 16:58:44 but if you ask it, it might cease to be stupid Oct 06 16:58:47 <.< Oct 06 17:00:20 Fucking stupid pieces of shit. Oct 06 17:00:21 it's no easier to telepathically read stupid questions than smart questions Oct 06 17:00:24 It's not overnight mail. Oct 06 17:00:32 I pay for overnight mail and they ship it priority. Oct 06 17:00:34 ;) Oct 06 17:00:37 Well, have fun in Amsterdam guys. Oct 06 17:00:47 maemo5 is still not Debian based but just similar to? Oct 06 17:00:56 ... Oct 06 17:01:23 Fucking US government Oct 06 17:01:25 Hopefully Quim can get some money out of my tickets Oct 06 17:01:34 :( Oct 06 17:03:01 :( Oct 06 17:03:01 * luke-jr votes Quim ship GeneralAntilles a N900 Oct 06 17:03:02 GeneralAntilles: you're travelling tommorow? Oct 06 17:03:02 Piece of shit Oct 06 17:03:06 Stskeeps, was. Oct 06 17:03:15 Passport will be here sometime next week, so it doesn't matter. Oct 06 17:03:28 GeneralAntilles: really sorry to hear that Oct 06 17:03:33 so? Oct 06 17:03:53 hrw: it doesn't track debian that much Oct 06 17:05:10 GeneralAntilles, havent you known about the summit for most of the year? what happened with passport? Oct 06 17:05:10 GeneralAntilles: welcome to the government haters club) Oct 06 17:05:25 lcuk, it took 7 weeks to process it "expedited" which was quoted to me as 1-3 weeks. Oct 06 17:05:30 Interesting, the implementation of sprintf on the Nokia tablet doesn't space-pad numbers... Oct 06 17:05:41 I might've had a chance if they decided to overnight it like I paid for. Oct 06 17:05:53 coldboot: "the implementation" is glibc's usual one. Oct 06 17:05:56 But, nope, they had to screw that up and ruin my week. Oct 06 17:07:01 don't forget locale effects Oct 06 17:07:04 :( Oct 06 17:07:05 ah, government employees... Oct 06 17:07:50 People need to get fired more often. Oct 06 17:07:52 For being stupid. Oct 06 17:07:58 Especially in government. Oct 06 17:08:14 everybody is stupid from time to time Oct 06 17:08:39 everyone is always stupid, in certain topics. Oct 06 17:08:39 Consistently stupid, then. Oct 06 17:09:02 If that topic lines up with their job, they need another job. Oct 06 17:09:14 Government is stupid in doing their job. Oct 06 17:11:06 coldboot, you are right, people find their level in jobs and for some people the level is court jester Oct 06 17:13:17 * javispedro notices his passport has expired too. Oct 06 17:13:33 One thing I've learned in working for companies is that you need to fire the bad seeds early, before they do any damage and make your good people leave. Oct 06 17:13:47 Good people won't put up working alongside idiots. Oct 06 17:14:14 amen, halleluja Oct 06 17:15:06 * VDVsx checks his passport Oct 06 17:16:08 * wazd checks his passport. No passport was found :( Oct 06 17:16:40 fortunately, I look like a criminal on my current passport. Hope next photo is better. Oct 06 17:16:41 wazd, lol, I don't need my to travel, but still Oct 06 17:16:59 S/my/mine/ Oct 06 17:17:12 wazd, I guess we can both watch from IRC. Oct 06 17:18:00 The Truth is Out: Most Mac Owners Also Own a Windows PC, But Not Vice Versa Oct 06 17:18:14 * RST38h back Oct 06 17:18:26 * lcuk is nervous Oct 06 17:18:37 GeneralAntilles: yeah, beer, snacks :) Oct 06 17:18:46 RST38h: come back when you find "Most iPhone Owners Also Own A Dumbphone" :) Oct 06 17:19:08 irc party. Oct 06 17:19:24 ah well. Oct 06 17:19:27 javispedro: Will "also own a dildo" version do? Oct 06 17:19:27 * VDVsx hits lcuk with a morphine injection :) Oct 06 17:19:47 wazd, at the very least I wont die of jetlag. Oct 06 17:19:49 johnx, ping? Oct 06 17:19:58 hope the recorded casts are of good quality. Oct 06 17:19:59 RST38h: there's an app for that :D Oct 06 17:20:06 wazd: Oh shit... Oct 06 17:20:09 * RST38h facepalms Oct 06 17:20:10 VDVsx, its not morphene Oct 06 17:20:11 its nerves Oct 06 17:20:22 * GeneralAntilles sighs. Oct 06 17:20:36 Did the IRC party last year, it's jealousy inducing. Oct 06 17:20:41 .... Oct 06 17:20:44 :( Oct 06 17:20:52 GeneralAntilles, you could try leaving the country using a hand drawn passport Oct 06 17:21:02 * GeneralAntilles wont have any residual council status to bank on next year, either. :( Oct 06 17:21:34 GeneralAntilles: did you call the post office? Oct 06 17:21:37 you are always known as general antilles of the grey council. Oct 06 17:22:38 javispedro, yes, the lady was very sarcastic about how I should have paid for expedited services if I needed it in time. Oct 06 17:22:41 I just thanked her and hung up. Oct 06 17:22:43 So not worth arguing with government employees. Oct 06 17:22:51 specially be phone Oct 06 17:22:55 they'll piss you off easily. Oct 06 17:23:14 not so easily in person (but still) Oct 06 17:23:20 s/be/by Oct 06 17:24:01 GeneralAntilles: Point freejazz to that employee Oct 06 17:24:08 GeneralAntilles: You might be able to get someone who's not useless on the phone. Oct 06 17:24:15 What country is it? Oct 06 17:24:18 hi lbt \o Oct 06 17:25:11 coldboot, it's already being processed by USPS. There's nothing to do about it now. Oct 06 17:25:27 chase the postman along the country? :P Oct 06 17:26:42 hi lcuk Oct 06 17:28:34 stupid gui question: which one drnoksnes gui would you prefer, the current one ( http://depot.javispedro.com/drnoksnes/if1.png ) or one not doing any dirty hacks with osso-games-startup ( http://depot.javispedro.com/drnoksnes/if2.png ) ? Oct 06 17:29:00 Current one Oct 06 17:29:13 javis: Look the same to me, I have no preference Oct 06 17:29:23 Unable to view it :( Oct 06 17:29:28 javis: If the second one is more kosher, go with the second one Oct 06 17:29:35 GeneralAntilles: Not that it helps, but you can probably claim the cost of expedited shipping plus your air fares and any non-refundable hotel charges. Oct 06 17:29:40 wazd: sorry, they're big sized pngs. Oct 06 17:29:47 should've warned you before? :S Oct 06 17:29:48 GeneralAntilles: but yeah, that's not useful :-/ Oct 06 17:29:51 That'll get me shipped off to Cuba here. Oct 06 17:30:14 javispedro: tomorrow that nightmare would be over :) Oct 06 17:30:29 General: There is an expedited passport service in DC, one day, $90 (several years ago at least) Oct 06 17:31:04 General: But be prepared for equal opportunity employees asking you invasive questions on what you need the passport for Oct 06 17:32:35 RST38h: Sounds like he has a good reason, though... Oct 06 17:33:07 ccooke: I had to show them a paper from my academic advisor last time Oct 06 17:33:31 ccooke, probably, not sure I have the energy to do it. Oct 06 17:33:38 ccooke, at least Nokia paid the air fares. Oct 06 17:33:42 GeneralAntilles: yeah, I can see that. Oct 06 17:34:03 RST38h, my passport has already been processed. I can't apply for a second one. Oct 06 17:36:04 javispedro: id say if1.png Oct 06 17:36:09 oh, yesss Oct 06 17:36:13 (yes, scrolling backlog is awesome) Oct 06 17:36:37 "you cant get passport because you already have one just not where you can reach it" Oct 06 17:37:22 Sad part is that my mother and sister's passports showed up last week. They sent theirs in the same time I did, selected standard service, listed a later trip date and received theirs in plenty of time to go nowhere. Oct 06 17:37:22 murphy's law at work. Oct 06 17:37:56 "dear Mr Antilles, your passport has been delivered to our european office, please call by to collect" Oct 06 17:40:59 (btw, thanks for feedback, if1 wins :P) Oct 06 17:41:06 GeneralAntilles: You might be able to get someone at USPS to heighten the priority. Oct 06 17:41:20 GeneralAntilles: Or have someone at the passport office with power do that. Oct 06 17:42:10 coldboot, I need it by about 10 AM tomorrow morning. Oct 06 17:43:05 I took a train 3 hours to Vienna once, to get my passport in person.. flight was 2 days off.. couldn't risk it. But I did discover that they (Australia) has emergency passports which last for 2 months, and you can get them same-day or overnight. :-P Oct 06 17:43:18 Even if I managed to get it overnighted now (which I don't believe is possible) it wouldn't get to me until the afternoon. Oct 06 17:46:33 how dare someone put files in the builder queue before me now i have to wait Oct 06 17:46:40 Those are described as "life or death" here. Oct 06 17:48:02 claim nokia will send a hitman after you Oct 06 17:50:33 Say that I'm coming to Florida and I'm gonna force you to listen to Rap and Grime Oct 06 17:51:07 http://www.motivatedphotos.com/?id=41640 Oct 06 17:51:40 (Things I'm hopeful that the n900 won't do: Randomly decide it wants to be on *some other provider's network* like my android phone) Oct 06 17:52:17 ccooke: doesnt android have an option to specify which operator to use? :P Oct 06 17:52:24 ccooke, get an n810 then - its 100% guaranteed to not connect to the wrong network. Oct 06 17:52:34 lol lcuk Oct 06 17:52:46 99.998% Oct 06 17:53:18 frals: Technically, yes. And every time it puts me on someone elses network, I use that feature to select Vodafone UK, the correct one. Oct 06 17:53:21 yes, there's always the chance some of the builtin software will gain consciousness, self-adapt the hw to form a gsm radio and connect to damn vodafone. Oct 06 17:53:22 lcuk: Incorrect :-) Oct 06 17:53:34 ccooke: nice, solid feature then.. :D Oct 06 17:53:35 qwerty12_N810, as long as I'm spending time with you. :) Oct 06 17:53:40 Some providers do support cell-over-wifi protocol. But that would usually mean porting your own reverse engineered client Oct 06 17:53:55 ccooke: Vodafone? The phone's trying to give you a hint... Oct 06 17:53:58 GeneralAntilles: lol Oct 06 17:54:12 * javispedro will be here during the summit too :P Oct 06 17:54:18 save for .. Oct 06 17:54:24 well. Oct 06 17:54:29 maybe be here. :P Oct 06 17:54:30 for ... velociraptors? Oct 06 17:54:44 (at my local pub, there's a paid-for wifi network which has slightly stronger signal than the pub's (free) wifi signal. Whenever I'm in one part of the pub, my n810 tends to connect to the wrong one :-) Oct 06 17:55:02 SpeedEvil: they present quite a bit of danger this part of the season. Oct 06 17:55:19 qwerty12_N810: I'd generally agree... but none of the other providers are any better Oct 06 17:55:19 ill be here trying to do MMS stuff, no worries! Oct 06 17:55:25 unless i end up in an asylum, that is Oct 06 17:55:35 ccooke: True :/ Oct 06 17:55:38 MMS, MMS, MMS, MMS, MMS Oct 06 17:55:44 frals: you'll be implementing WAP for that. I think I'd take the asylum :-/ Oct 06 17:55:45 screw MMS Oct 06 17:55:48 wazd: Here? =) Oct 06 17:56:13 RST38h: yep Oct 06 17:56:17 * SpeedEvil tries again to find the funky paper and fails. Oct 06 17:56:22 ccooke: i'll try to get a proof of concept over HTTP working first... just got ten million things to find info on before that ;) Oct 06 17:56:24 qwerty12_N810: on the other hand, the last two times I've contacted Vodafone's customer service I've received *above average* support. Oct 06 17:56:30 wazd: Should we finish that ati85 package? Oct 06 17:56:31 It reported 1300 bits/second over GSM voice. Oct 06 17:56:49 frals: good luck, either way. Getting support for MMS will be a bit of a win. Oct 06 17:57:01 (data -> human-voicebox model -> GSM -> voice recognition ->data) Oct 06 17:57:07 ccooke: Ah, can't comment on that: I've never once rang customer service... Oct 06 17:58:25 qwerty12_N810: How's about this: First call, they gave me what sounded like a ossible fix for my issue. Second call (when it didn't work), they noted that I'd already been asked to try the first thing and put me through to second line. Second line said they'd call back within 24 hours. Oct 06 17:58:46 wait, maemo summit starts thursday-night/friday? Oct 06 17:58:49 qwerty12_N810: they called back within four, asked sensible technical questions and the issue was resolved about an hour later. Oct 06 17:58:55 do people really use MMS? Oct 06 17:59:03 * timeless wasn't planning to arrive that early Oct 06 17:59:22 EspadaV8: it seems that it's essential to a hell of a lot of people. Oct 06 17:59:25 Espada: some apparently do Oct 06 17:59:25 RST38h: ok Oct 06 17:59:31 timeless: Most of us will arrive on Thursday. Oct 06 17:59:35 Which I find strange, but hey. Oct 06 17:59:43 hmm Oct 06 17:59:48 Heh. We should find somewhere to go to on Thursday night Oct 06 17:59:50 not sure i've ever used it Oct 06 17:59:55 i'm still in prague Oct 06 18:00:09 I've used it when a phone I had was unable to send SMS Oct 06 18:00:09 and was thinking of arriving midday friday Oct 06 18:00:18 each to their own i guess Oct 06 18:00:31 i just got an mms from my mom with the new kitchen table she got ^^ Oct 06 18:00:31 timeless: Well, you probably know all Nokia announcements already ;) Oct 06 18:00:32 (but that was around two or three times) Oct 06 18:00:35 espadav: it's very regional Oct 06 18:00:46 timeless: Friday is Nokia day. Oct 06 18:00:48 x-fade: doubtful Oct 06 18:01:00 http://ondemand.msmedia.zdf.newmedia.nacamar.net/zdf/data/msmedia/3sat/09/10/091002_klavier_kuz_vh.wmv Oct 06 18:01:04 well, nokia isn't paying me to be there Oct 06 18:01:12 Todays randomness. (piano voice synth) Oct 06 18:01:13 should i ignore it? Oct 06 18:01:41 frals: Wow! Oct 06 18:01:52 truly amazing, is it not? ;) Oct 06 18:01:57 frals: do you have the required replicator on your phone? Oct 06 18:02:16 I could imagine it'd be damn awkward if you're on the bus, and out pops a table. Oct 06 18:02:17 SpeedEvil: hey, we could do that. Oct 06 18:02:30 SpeedEvil: nope, but it has color fax! ;) Oct 06 18:02:35 are people doing spmething thursday night? Oct 06 18:02:53 RST38h: can you tell me buttons order (rows) Oct 06 18:02:55 SpeedEvil: 3d printers aren't all that espensive these days... and the control software for them can run on linux. Oct 06 18:03:08 timeless: haven't heard of anything yet. Oct 06 18:03:18 * SpeedEvil prefers shadow fax. Oct 06 18:05:31 wazd: exactly the same order as before (73 after 83+), but both 73 and 83+SE are enabled Oct 06 18:06:08 SpeedEvil: how do you play that? Oct 06 18:07:28 luke-jr: just played for me Oct 06 18:08:23 ff/gxine Oct 06 18:10:38 It originally came to me as mms:// - I just replaced with http:// and it worked Oct 06 18:12:03 lcuk: I'm compiling Qt :) Oct 06 18:12:28 good Oct 06 18:13:05 i keep thinking about how good qt would be without all the weight Oct 06 18:14:10 lcuk: If the libraries were always loaded it would feel a lot lighter on the device Oct 06 18:14:35 I guess we will see with Harmattan Oct 06 18:15:16 try to expand on the "maemo launcher" idea :P Oct 06 18:16:47 fiferboy, not the kind of thing im thinking lol Oct 06 18:16:53 RISC vs CISC Oct 06 18:17:18 RST38h: done Oct 06 18:17:49 lcuk: Ah. I like all the functionality it give me, but to each his own Oct 06 18:18:00 Some like pushing pixels around directly on the screen :) Oct 06 18:18:28 * lcuk nods muchly Oct 06 18:18:45 i like sending and collating data to new and interesting places as well :P Oct 06 18:19:00 RST38h: gone Oct 06 18:19:00 True Oct 06 18:22:09 * lopz u' Oct 06 18:23:57 wazd: got it ! Oct 06 18:26:03 wazd: the only remaining thing is the ti73 skin Oct 06 18:32:10 RST38h: well, i'll make it asap Oct 06 18:37:05 * RST38h will reboot to linux and repackage Oct 06 18:42:06 what's the "Token based access restrictions"? Oct 06 18:43:32 crashanddie__: no idea how it ended on that agenda Oct 06 18:43:34 Hello, could someone help a bit? I'm getting the same error that this guy is getting. http://lists.scratchbox.org/pipermail/scratchbox-devel/2007-September/000335.html Oct 06 18:43:55 when i try to install maemo to a different location than the basic /scratchbox Oct 06 18:44:01 is there a workaround for this? Oct 06 18:44:17 Friday Summit party theme: "Slower is sexier" -> http://www.flexbar.nl/ ;) Oct 06 18:45:25 jukuli_, how about fixing your environment before trying to install anything? Oct 06 18:45:48 jukuli_, the /etc/hostname issue is pretty bad to start with, and I wonder why you get the modprobe error Oct 06 18:46:32 crashanddie__: ah sorry... forget everything else from that paste :) the error is that Error: Operation not permitted chroot(plpaplpla) Oct 06 18:47:00 jukuli_: Did you log out and log in again so you have the sbox group? Oct 06 18:47:02 jukuli_, can you check who owns /scratchbox and /scratchbox/users/user ? Oct 06 18:47:13 gcobb: no but I used the newgrp sbox Oct 06 18:47:31 gcobb, can you update me on the "Token-based access restriction" you sent in the email? Oct 06 18:47:52 For all you non-dutchies - just make sure you have shitloads of 50cent pieces in your pocket if you go out drinking .. at most places, it'll cost you one every time you want to take a piss. Oct 06 18:47:57 hmm let me start from the beginning so this doesn't get out of hands :) I'm using this guide http://maemo.org/development/sdks/maemo_5_beta_2_sdk_installation/#32bitinstall Oct 06 18:48:09 jukuli_: I vaguely remember having a problem using newgrp -- but I might be confused Oct 06 18:48:35 rmt, jesus, dutchies really are a moneymongering people Oct 06 18:48:39 and whats different is that "sudo ./maemo-scratchbox-install_5.0beta2.sh -u USER -s ANOTHER_PATH Oct 06 18:49:07 and because of that when I run "sh maemo-sdk-install_5.0beta2.sh -s ANOTHER_PATH" i get that chroot error Oct 06 18:49:24 the ANOTHER_PATH is another harddrive and different mount Oct 06 18:49:48 crashanddie__: I don't really know -- it was mentioned in the sprint meeting as a task that needs some discussion at the summit so I added it to the list Oct 06 18:49:55 crashanddie - and don't expect to be able to order a glass of tap-water anywhere, either. :-P Oct 06 18:50:08 crashanddie__: you might want to check the sprint meeting log -- it might mean more to you than to me Oct 06 18:50:09 jukuli: is that other harddrive mounted nosuid? Oct 06 18:50:15 rmt, kanker-obers Oct 06 18:50:29 Mek: don't know..how can I check this? Oct 06 18:50:35 obers? kanker-lijers is the one I know. :-P Oct 06 18:50:41 jukuli_: run mount to see the options Oct 06 18:50:56 jukuli_: I think nosuid or at least nodev will cause problems Oct 06 18:50:59 crashanddie__, for Mer. Oct 06 18:51:04 Mek: just a sec Oct 06 18:51:41 GeneralAntilles, ah, that kind of tokens Oct 06 18:51:52 * crashanddie__ was hoping to make a quick buck :P Oct 06 18:51:57 Mek: "/dev/sdb1 on /media/HOME type ext3 (rw,nosid,nodev,uhelper=hal) Oct 06 18:52:26 Mek: sorry misstyped.. nosid -> nosuid Oct 06 18:52:37 nosid? Oct 06 18:52:38 ah Oct 06 18:52:38 "Jij moeter was duits!" should be a reasonable insult to most dutch (but I'd take it as a compliment, were I dutch) Oct 06 18:52:41 jukuli_: yeah, you'll at least have to remount it without the nodev to be able to have a scratchbox install on there, I don't remember if the nosuid was also a problem Oct 06 18:52:58 rmt: Almost ok. Oct 06 18:53:04 nosuid should be acceptable -- at least there's no reason for scratchbox to require it Oct 06 18:53:11 X-Fade, did you see my request last night Oct 06 18:53:27 rmt, "je" ou "jouw", and "moeder" :) Oct 06 18:53:33 s/ou/or/ Oct 06 18:53:33 crashanddie__ meant: rmt, "je" or "jouw", and "moeder" :) Oct 06 18:53:34 :-) Oct 06 18:53:48 lcuk: no? Oct 06 18:54:06 X-Fade, how far is your commute from the summit? Oct 06 18:54:07 Only Italian and German for the last 11 months. Oct 06 18:54:13 is there a URL on maemo.org to access a users avatar image by name Oct 06 18:54:21 crashanddie__: about 2 hours Oct 06 18:54:22 maemo.org/avatars/lcuk Oct 06 18:54:26 or something Oct 06 18:54:32 lcuk, you going to come in day-in day-out? Oct 06 18:54:38 lcuk: no, don't think so. Oct 06 18:54:51 err, that last one was for X-Fade Oct 06 18:55:12 crashanddie__: No, I'll stay in a hotel in AMS> Oct 06 18:55:25 k Oct 06 18:55:50 Mek: ok thanks for this tip..I think I will do the whole install again and try mounting the drive differently Oct 06 18:56:13 X-Fade, would it be difficult to add? Oct 06 18:56:42 lcuk, why would you want to do it? Oct 06 18:56:47 lcuk: No, but not this year for me unfortunately. Oct 06 18:56:49 Mek: ah didn't even need to do that :) now at least the install started :) Oct 06 18:56:50 lcuk, I can write you a parser that will get you the URL Oct 06 18:57:21 I've just written to -developers that I'm not opening the autobuilder for fremantle today. Oct 06 18:57:43 X-Fade, you must be getting love-mail right about now? Oct 06 18:57:45 ok X-Fade understood Oct 06 18:57:55 Got more than enough on my plate with that ;) Oct 06 18:58:12 crashanddie__: Read the mail for explanation. Oct 06 18:58:21 crashanddie__, if this parser sat on liqbase.net and i added a single php file to "get_maemo_org_avatar.php?user=lcuk" Oct 06 18:58:23 X-Fade, not blaming anyone Oct 06 18:58:33 lcuk, that was the whole idea Oct 06 18:58:47 http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-developers/2009-October/021239.html Oct 06 18:58:48 lcuk, or it could return a jpg/png directly, so you don't need to do two calls Oct 06 18:59:01 yes i want the image dat Oct 06 18:59:47 lcuk, ok, let me get cracking, you'll have the script tonight Oct 06 18:59:58 lcuk, which version of PHP are you running on .net? Oct 06 19:00:11 i havent the foggiest Oct 06 19:00:16 just ass baseline php Oct 06 19:00:20 assume even Oct 06 19:00:29 thanks crashanddie__ Oct 06 19:00:31 ill get on with the rest Oct 06 19:06:34 lcuk: did you mention something about hardware acceleration for YUV stuff on the N810? Oct 06 19:06:46 lcuk: I'm trying to see if we could use it in mozilla Oct 06 19:07:52 X-Fade: Can we have multiple maintainers / authors in a deb package? Oct 06 19:08:03 RST38h: Sure, Oct 06 19:08:19 RST38h: Person A, Person B, Person C Oct 06 19:09:22 X-Fade: Got it Oct 06 19:10:22 mfinkle :) Oct 06 19:12:36 Ok, wazd is now officially included into maintainers / copyright holder of ati85 Oct 06 19:12:39 =) Oct 06 19:12:52 woo Oct 06 19:13:01 more targets for legisation? ;) Oct 06 19:14:29 Sts: you wanted to use the word "litigation"=) Oct 06 19:14:37 yes Oct 06 19:15:00 Speaking of which, I probably should not include 83+se and 73 roms into the package Oct 06 19:33:13 Hi all. I am trying to install Maemo 5 SDK, and cannot understand how does it resolve the domain names. I started to install it on my laptop in a first network, with DNS .132.15, then moved the laptop to other network, with DNS .1.100 (just before the phase of installing the proprietary packages); but now it seems that it still sends the domain requests to the old DNS server, even though it is not anywhere nearby visible. Oct 06 19:34:06 I doublechecked /etc/resolv.conf on both the Debian host and the scratchbox directory, but they both point to the new DNS servers. Why does it send the AAAA requests to the wrong DNS then? Oct 06 19:37:10 Honeyman: which file in scratchbox did you check (I have (had) similar issues) Oct 06 19:38:03 Honeyman: check /scratchbox/etc/resolv.conf Oct 06 19:38:12 Mozillion: being logged into scratchbox, I checked /etc/resolv.conf Oct 06 19:38:21 ah yes.. that also didn't work for me Oct 06 19:38:24 It contains "nameserver 192.168.1.100" now Oct 06 19:38:30 yes, the file Stskeeps mentions Oct 06 19:38:52 other issue.. the m5 SDK wiki mentions the tablet-browser-interface package Oct 06 19:38:57 Oooh. Oct 06 19:38:58 I have it installed but dpkg -L lists only ./ Oct 06 19:39:05 Stskeeps: you are right Oct 06 19:39:18 Mozillion: isn't it just a transitional package or something? dunno Oct 06 19:39:43 Stskeeps: it seems so.. but how do I get into the browser Oct 06 19:39:57 I need to get better understanding of mapping between host and scratchbox directories... Oct 06 19:40:12 Hi Oct 06 19:40:19 for example since I upgraded my beta2 SDK to the current one.. I have these Facebook/Twitter bookmarks on the desktops, but if I click them, nothing happens Oct 06 19:40:29 Mozillion: install nokiap-apps Oct 06 19:40:33 nokia-apps Oct 06 19:40:50 Stskeeps: oh, I assumed it would be part of nokia-binaries.. ok Oct 06 19:41:45 oops, errors Oct 06 19:42:06 Stskeeps: any idea how does the /scratchbox/etc/resolv.conf gets updated? Strange if it doesn't follow resolv.conf of the host system. Oct 06 19:42:19 Honeyman: don't get me started on scratchbox.. Oct 06 19:42:19 :P Oct 06 19:42:43 Honeyman: for me it just doesn't get updated Oct 06 19:42:53 maybe I should hardlink it to /etc/resolv.conf Oct 06 19:43:06 symlink, mount bind ro? Oct 06 19:43:10 I'm thinking of the same too... Oct 06 19:43:33 kynky: I bet symlink won't work Oct 06 19:43:44 well mount bind ro will Oct 06 19:44:17 Btw, can someone give me a hint why should you use "fakeroot apt-get" instead of "apt-get" inside scratchbox? Oct 06 19:44:26 that even works across a chroot Oct 06 19:45:07 kynky: you mean, apt-get does work across a chroot, do you? Oct 06 19:45:23 Funny, but symlinking resolv.conf DID work. Oct 06 19:45:25 mount bind ro works across a chroo Oct 06 19:45:28 t Oct 06 19:46:04 * GeneralAntilles wishes h-a-m would show changelogs. Oct 06 19:46:17 ro = read only, so it can be updated, by even root Oct 06 19:46:36 cant* Oct 06 19:46:47 damn this keyboard, lol Oct 06 19:47:39 Google Finds DRAM Errors More Common Than Believed Oct 06 19:50:37 I am pretty new to Maemo development (as one might see); can one hint me, what is the normal procedure to keep the SDK always up-to-date - just apt-get update/apt-get upgrade often? Is it enough, does Nokia keep their repos fresh? Oct 06 19:50:50 johns, are you johnsq? Oct 06 19:50:54 sb2 gets updated with the rest of ubuntu Oct 06 19:51:02 as long as the correct repo has been added Oct 06 19:51:15 slonopotamus: why? Oct 06 19:51:37 slonopotamus: oops yes. nick was free Oct 06 19:51:46 johns, your 'why' is ambigious. Oct 06 19:53:26 RST38h: err? I thought that sources.list of scratchbox and host system are separate, and you write the new repo only to the scratchbox' one Oct 06 19:53:49 I mean the scratchbox itself Oct 06 19:54:16 johnsq, xorg 1.7: Support for 32 bit keycodes. Many multimedia keys cannot be processed in current X servers as the core protocol limits keycodes to a maximum of 255. Applications built against XI2 may receive keycodes up to 32 bit. Oct 06 19:54:35 qwerty12_N810, ping? Oct 06 19:54:58 GeneralAntilles: pong Oct 06 19:55:31 qwerty12_N810, what do you think about setting up some sort of script or web service that accepts 4 images and spits out a package for the autobuilder? Oct 06 19:55:50 slonopotamus: that will help X11 handling FN on n810. Oct 06 19:56:02 johnsq, exactly Oct 06 19:56:29 GeneralAntilles: Sounds beyond my limited knowledge :) Oct 06 19:56:49 gah internet time sucking whore! Oct 06 19:56:51 gnite folks Oct 06 19:57:05 RST38h: "deb http://scratchbox.org/debian/ maemo5-sdk main" ? Oct 06 19:57:22 qwerty12_N810, OK, how about a .deb framework that we can slap some magic on top of? Oct 06 19:57:37 Sounds a bit like py2deb Oct 06 19:57:38 In the style of the startup screen packages Oct 06 19:57:38 slonopotamus: i tried to build nokia kernel under gentoo, gentoo works find, but maemo reboots random. Oct 06 19:58:12 slonopotamus: linux-omap2.6 is currently total broken. Oct 06 19:58:14 johnsq, you mean, diablo-sources? Oct 06 19:58:20 slonopotamus: yes. Oct 06 19:58:36 Honeyman: deb http://maemo-sdk.garage.maemo.org/download/host ubuntu-intrepid free Oct 06 19:58:46 So, my idea is that somebody could go to a form on http://n900backgrounds.com, submit 4 images and the relevant copyright information and it'd spit out a source package that could be sent to the autobuilder Oct 06 19:58:54 johnsq, you also probably want to put rebuilt modules in initfs? Oct 06 19:59:15 Somebody on that site can then review each package before submitting it to the autobuilder by hand. Oct 06 19:59:33 Then they link to the .install from the site as well as the images. Oct 06 19:59:49 johnsq, saw http://www.elinux.org/N800 ? Oct 06 19:59:57 No diddling around with .desktop files, easy installation and removal, etc. Oct 06 20:00:05 slonopotamus: shouldn't be a problem, if the same version and same API. Oct 06 20:00:26 johnsq, totally different compiler Oct 06 20:01:10 slonopotamus: yes, but should have the same API (calling convention...) Oct 06 20:01:39 johnsq, you wanted to say ABI? Oct 06 20:01:58 * waz1 has made nice n900 wallpaper :) Oct 06 20:02:21 johnsq, dunno... that's exactly the source that stock diablo kernel is built from. Oct 06 20:02:41 slonopotamus: right ABI. Oct 06 20:02:56 anyone got any hints whereabouts i should look for APIs for incoming SMS handling? >_< Oct 06 20:03:48 any idea how to start slim login manger together with virtual keyboard? Oct 06 20:04:53 GeneralAntilles: click on a install file launches h-a-m in fremantle? Oct 06 20:04:58 why is it everytime I develop something for lcuk, and I need some specifics regarding the requirements of the tool, he fucks off Oct 06 20:05:08 javispedro, why wouldn't it? Oct 06 20:05:12 johnsq, :/ no. i thought you don't want vkb on n810 Oct 06 20:05:26 GeneralAntilles, dunno, the "only from repos" rule. Oct 06 20:05:30 crashanddie__: He's a northerner, expect some quirks... Oct 06 20:05:44 javispedro, .install files just point to a specific package in a repo Oct 06 20:05:47 talking my ass, I could boot up the sdk and test. Oct 06 20:05:49 and make it easy to install things from the browser Oct 06 20:05:54 and add the repo if need be. Oct 06 20:06:38 slonopotamus: later yes, but currently I playing with other things. Oct 06 20:06:41 GeneralAntilles: ah, confirmed, it works and adds needed repos. Oct 06 20:07:29 Is there any way to organize the applications menu? Oct 06 20:07:37 johnsq, turn into a more generic question: how to run smth when login manager is displayed Oct 06 20:08:32 slonopotamus: with pure xdm, I know it, but slim is nicer. Oct 06 20:08:44 GeneralAntilles: I can't even see a way to move icons into the first level apps menu. Oct 06 20:09:11 is the media player supposed to work? :) Oct 06 20:09:28 in SDK? you must first get pulse working I guess. Oct 06 20:10:04 Stskeeps: http://s52.radikal.ru/i136/0910/f9/90b2d80c98c0.jpg <- test :) Oct 06 20:10:06 the transitions are a bit better on the final SDK. thank god, since I could easily hang it. Oct 06 20:10:32 GeneralAntilles: Move a desktop file out of /usr/share/applications/hildon/ and move it back in to make the corresponding application appear on the bottom of the list... Oct 06 20:10:35 wazd: I am trying to create a deb with the theme Oct 06 20:10:39 waz1: hehe cool Oct 06 20:10:39 wazd: I cannot :( Oct 06 20:10:45 hi guys Oct 06 20:10:48 GeneralAntilles: I wish I could say I was joking... Oct 06 20:10:52 qwerty12_N810, they didn't provide any real organization controls, did they? Oct 06 20:10:52 wazd: ThemeMaker 1.2.3 appears to be totally broken now Oct 06 20:10:54 Stupid Oct 06 20:11:03 Maybe a good opportunity for a community patch, however. Oct 06 20:11:16 have anyone tested a GtkTreeView using PyMaemo with the new SDK release? Oct 06 20:12:09 qwerty12_N810: so there's an order at least. an order that must be stored somewhere... than a hackish "community" app could modify! >:) Oct 06 20:12:21 s/than/that Oct 06 20:12:31 RST38h: select the proper background template Oct 06 20:13:00 jrocha: i don't, but are you having any problems with it? Oct 06 20:13:04 javispedro: Hehe, at least HD is open-source so I can't imagine it'd take long to find the path of said file :) Oct 06 20:13:07 Sts: I did Oct 06 20:13:13 hmm Oct 06 20:13:14 lizardo, hey! Oct 06 20:13:17 Sts:This version does not create proper DEBIAN dir Oct 06 20:13:27 RST38h: ah - i just dpkg-deb manually Oct 06 20:13:34 I tried Oct 06 20:13:43 it really wants DEBIAN/control etc Oct 06 20:13:48 lizardo, I had a working gtktreeview with NORMAL UI mode and default selection mode (single) Oct 06 20:14:14 lizardo, today I updated SB and now the tree rows only emit row-activated when I press on them twice Oct 06 20:14:30 lizardo, if I press on them only once, they'll appear selected Oct 06 20:14:38 javispedro, hopefully we can get proper directory organization. Oct 06 20:14:47 I wonder if this is GTK+'s problem or pymaemo's Oct 06 20:14:57 my guess is that may require changing HD. Oct 06 20:15:12 A good patch should be fairly easy to get accepted. Oct 06 20:16:01 jrocha: hmm, I wonder that too... I suggest asking on maemo-developers (with a general , no pymaemo specific topic) to see if some Hildon developer identifies it as a intended change in behavior Oct 06 20:16:38 lizardo, I've already talked with Claudio (on the hildon team) Oct 06 20:16:51 lizardo, he says he haven't seen such problem Oct 06 20:16:58 jrocha: in the meantime, you can file a bug report on the PyMaemo bugzilla with a simple test case, the will help us tracking the bug if it is indeed Python specific (it doesn't look like , I think)( Oct 06 20:17:00 lizardo, I'm gonna try a C example now Oct 06 20:17:11 jrocha: good, let us know of the results :) Oct 06 20:17:55 jrocha: I also usually try a simple C example to make sure it is not a issue with the underlying API Oct 06 20:19:15 lizardo, ok Oct 06 20:20:05 Hi ! Oct 06 20:20:23 Heya Oct 06 20:21:29 I'm looking at the CalDav Protocol ... amazing ... never see a so strange protocol Oct 06 20:21:42 slonopotamus: latest slim / xorg-server / mozilla all works Oct 06 20:23:04 Stskeeps: it's looped, you can crop any part you want for Mer :) Oct 06 20:24:00 lizardo, well, the C gtktreeview works as expected Oct 06 20:24:07 wazd: hehe neat Oct 06 20:24:32 lizardo, also note this might be my fault, it is just weird that it was working before and now it isn't Oct 06 20:27:55 can someone tell me what accessibility is for in hildon-desktop? Oct 06 20:32:05 Try 49 to download Benelux Map on Nokia Maps Oct 06 20:32:06 Stskeeps, yes for no Oct 06 20:32:12 grrrr Oct 06 20:33:03 hum ... Oct 06 20:35:34 VDVsx: Good job today running the meeting. :) Oct 06 20:35:59 jeremiah, thanks ;) Oct 06 20:38:14 I'm I correct in assuming that sound does not work even in the x86 env on amd64? Oct 06 20:38:19 am I correct* Oct 06 20:47:51 Hi, my N810 crashes, when I write significant amount data on the external sd card either from the N810 (web download) or the PC when the N810 is connected via USB Oct 06 20:48:06 I do not see an issue when accessing the SD card directly via a cardreader Oct 06 20:48:21 Is my N810 hardware broken? Oct 06 20:50:46 In syslog I see entries like Oct 06 20:50:48 Oct 6 22:48:25 blackbox kernel: [27541.379962] usb 8-1: USB disconnect, address 9 Oct 06 20:50:48 Oct 6 22:48:25 blackbox kernel: [27541.397011] FAT: Directory bread(block 30664) failed Oct 06 20:51:41 rdorsch: you can check the file system Oct 06 20:55:11 where's the party on thursday night then? Oct 06 20:56:28 none idea Oct 06 20:56:59 thursday ? Oct 06 20:57:14 hum ... we didn't talk of the summit Oct 06 20:57:14 ? Oct 06 20:57:15 :) Oct 06 20:57:51 Khertan: you coming? Oct 06 20:58:08 at the maemo summit ? Oct 06 20:58:11 yep Oct 06 20:58:13 yes Oct 06 20:58:31 i m sponsored ... so i come :) Oct 06 20:58:40 can anyone help me find driver for "Nokia Connectivity Adapter Cable CA-50"? Oct 06 20:59:49 Khertan: so.... Oct 06 20:59:59 where's the party on thursday night :D Oct 06 21:00:07 thurday ? Oct 06 21:00:15 when are you arriving Oct 06 21:00:20 studen2: what devices? Oct 06 21:00:27 friday in the morning Oct 06 21:00:57 aww Oct 06 21:01:03 you'll miss the party Oct 06 21:01:25 20:00 Maemo Party in FlexBar DJ's Russ Chimes & Grum (check the mixtapes!) visuals by Xploitec VJ's. coordinated by Jussi Mäkinen. It's a public bar and the doors are open to anybody. Our program will go until 23h or so, but the bar is open until really late with good music. Special cocktail hour sponsored by the lovely Skype people. Don't forget the Saturday schedule, though. :) Oct 06 21:01:30 lbt: I bought this cable to use for my 1208 contacts backup, now i'm stucked finding the driver for it Oct 06 21:01:34 i think it was friday Oct 06 21:01:44 studen2: on a Windows PC Oct 06 21:01:51 the included cd is not helping doing anything Oct 06 21:02:00 yes windows XP SP2 Oct 06 21:02:25 lbt: the party is friday not thursday Oct 06 21:02:31 studen2: this is a linux/maemo dev channel :) Oct 06 21:02:33 or maybe not an official one ? Oct 06 21:03:04 well i didn't know that however i still assume linux guys can help a lot indeed Oct 06 21:03:07 Khertan: nah, just an early arrivers one Oct 06 21:03:14 hum ... ok Oct 06 21:03:27 yes khertan the cable is not nokia genuine Oct 06 21:03:40 studen2: sure... just saying it's not the most likely chan to get help ... good luck :) Oct 06 21:03:47 oh dear Oct 06 21:03:55 i think i just made talk.maemo.org errupt in anger Oct 06 21:04:21 hum ... i think i should plan my travel from airport to the summit Oct 06 21:04:25 stylus keyboard!!! Oct 06 21:04:28 what did you do to him!!!!!!!!! Oct 06 21:04:38 studen2: we might be able to help on Linux, if you could be helped Oct 06 21:04:41 you killed the stylus keyboard! Oct 06 21:04:51 ;) Oct 06 21:04:54 but as someone here told you last night, your cable is just a cable Oct 06 21:04:58 it doesn't have/need/use drivers Oct 06 21:05:02 javispedro: please beat up the guy who removed the support for thumb keyboards. either way, what about a full screen stylus kbd? Oct 06 21:05:09 Stskeeps: +1 Oct 06 21:05:12 johnsq: I recreated the fs (mkfs.vfat) and I repartitioned the card. Oct 06 21:05:12 err Oct 06 21:05:17 for stylus keyboards Oct 06 21:05:21 both did not help. Oct 06 21:05:41 The n810 still crashes, but in a cardreader I do not see a problem with the card. Oct 06 21:05:45 Stskeeps: i'll miss it, but i read it that they basically removed the h-i-m windows thus any plugin will need a bit of hard work to port Oct 06 21:05:49 Stskeeps: what thread? Oct 06 21:05:59 javispedro: fremantle ui really does not lend itself to stylus keyboard.. Oct 06 21:06:04 rdorsch: looks like hardware failure, you can still try some other cards. Oct 06 21:06:13 at least the one that squeezes everything Oct 06 21:06:27 yeah... Oct 06 21:06:37 yes luke they did BUT i told him i get an unknown driver installation dialog pops up every time i hook up the cable Oct 06 21:06:37 neither does diablo ui, but so it goes Oct 06 21:06:37 ah well. Oct 06 21:06:49 well, on diablo is usable at least. Oct 06 21:06:59 on fremantle probably the modest compose email textfield won't fit. Oct 06 21:07:04 re Oct 06 21:07:07 and i've demostrated genuine nokia ca-53 drivers Oct 06 21:07:12 javispedro: seriously though, what about fullscreen stylus keyboard? Oct 06 21:07:28 Stskeeps: I don't see usecase for that vs the usual finger one. Oct 06 21:07:29 well Oct 06 21:07:37 other than extra keys and no tabs, which would be nice. Oct 06 21:08:25 javispedro: only usecase i see a problem in is xterm Oct 06 21:08:27 johnsq: can I get more debug/diagnosis output from the N810? Oct 06 21:09:57 xterm also bends itself well for a partial-window stylus-keyb Oct 06 21:10:23 rdorsch: dmesg, and do dd if=/mmcblk(0 or 1) of=/dev/null than you can see if it happens while read. Oct 06 21:11:43 rdorsch: badblocks don't know if available on normal device can search bad blocks. Oct 06 21:12:11 so what do you guys think about a cable that pops a "Welcome to the Found New Hardware Wizard"? Oct 06 21:13:51 studen2: a cable is a cable. won't it be the device on the other side of the cable the one "requiring drivers"? Oct 06 21:15:07 * javispedro watches that maemo idiot fan-site out of pure Schadenfreude Oct 06 21:16:00 * GeneralAntilles wonders when segphault's new article will be out. Oct 06 21:16:24 javis: He is trying to use a usb-to-rs232 cable to talk to a dumb phone Oct 06 21:16:52 javis: He has got some no-name cable that is SUPPOSED to be CA-50 replacement. For some reason he can't use drivers that came on the cd Oct 06 21:16:59 a, *that* cable. Oct 06 21:17:06 well, they're pretty generic. Oct 06 21:17:22 Yes, the chipset is made by some UK firm whose name starts with F Oct 06 21:17:27 * RST38h no longer remembers Oct 06 21:17:33 GeneralAntilles: Any joy on the passport or is it now lost in a Kafkaesque nightmare Oct 06 21:17:35 ftdi? Oct 06 21:17:43 there are quite a few, not only that one. Oct 06 21:18:11 but still less than a dozen. Oct 06 21:18:18 no touchbook Oct 06 21:18:20 so it's just a job of getting the vid & pid and googling. Oct 06 21:18:25 Jaffa, no joy, I got a shipment notification this morning and started making plans to make sure I had my hands on it by tomorrow morning. Turns out they didn't ship it overnight like I paid for and decided to screw me over instead. Oct 06 21:19:29 javis: FTDI indeed Oct 06 21:19:46 * RST38h usually gets FTDI, then suffers from it Oct 06 21:19:58 they had generic drivers back when I cared. Oct 06 21:20:00 On the subject of FTDI. Oct 06 21:20:01 hey all Oct 06 21:20:14 has anyone used the FT2232? The USB2 FIFO chip Oct 06 21:20:22 in fact I got my m130 to sync in xp64 by using the ftdi driver ;) Oct 06 21:20:34 (the palm m130 pda) Oct 06 21:20:35 oops Oct 06 21:20:36 mischan Oct 06 21:20:37 javis: They kill Windows wakeup Oct 06 21:20:47 I have an app Idea that I think could be awesome for the right people.... Oct 06 21:21:04 'I am rich' ? Oct 06 21:21:04 javis: Not any more, I guess (hope?), but they did Oct 06 21:21:06 RST38h: lol. well, half the windows drivers do that either way... Oct 06 21:21:25 Tadthebulder: Cool! Go code it! Oct 06 21:21:29 haha Oct 06 21:21:38 actually im wondering if its possible Oct 06 21:21:42 and then I might try... Oct 06 21:22:36 essentially it would take a subset Oct 06 21:22:39 (group) Oct 06 21:22:55 of contact and record the time spent conversing with each of those specific contacts in a easily viewed Oct 06 21:23:00 contacts* Oct 06 21:23:04 database Oct 06 21:23:30 thus for someone who needs to record the time spent conversing with clients or what not for tax/boss purposes would be greatly assisted Oct 06 21:23:33 Possible. Go code it. Oct 06 21:24:01 well first ill need to learn to code Oct 06 21:24:08 by the time I finish that the n2000 will be out Oct 06 21:24:09 :) Oct 06 21:24:26 hey guys, does anyone know a python app that is already ported to fremantle so I can try it on the new SDK? Oct 06 21:24:52 GeneralAntilles: And it's not just a reporting problem? Have they confirmed it has been shipped the slow way? Oct 06 21:24:59 jrocha: Hermes is Python. As is Attitude. Oct 06 21:25:05 gPodder too. Oct 06 21:25:14 All of them are in extras-testing or extras-devel Oct 06 21:25:15 Jaffa, yes, the tracking number confirms it and talking with USPS people confirms it. Oct 06 21:25:25 nice, thank you Jaffa Oct 06 21:25:25 GeneralAntilles: Arseburgers. Oct 06 21:25:31 Jaffa, indeed. Oct 06 21:25:51 snif ... my sdk is scratched Oct 06 21:25:52 : Oct 06 21:25:53 :( Oct 06 21:25:55 Like anybody doubted that.... Oct 06 21:26:02 Emailed Quim this morning. Cancelled my tickets (hopefully they get something back :/) and opened up my slot. Oct 06 21:26:19 arse? burgers? Oct 06 21:26:21 Hopefully I have something to bank on to get me there next year. :/ Oct 06 21:26:28 * GeneralAntilles sighs. Oct 06 21:26:39 On the other hand, just to keep you from believing into free enterprise, FedEx once *lost* my pasport Oct 06 21:26:50 GeneralAntilles: oh shit - that sucks Oct 06 21:27:00 can one of the talk.* moderators move the posts into a different thread as i ask in http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=340676&postcount=16 ? :P Oct 06 21:27:03 Lost the passport, the visa, and the airplane tickets. Oct 06 21:27:36 johnsq: how would I use dmesg if the device simply crashes (=reboots) when the problem occurs? Oct 06 21:27:37 RST38h, I've had more than enough bad experiences with shipping companies to know that you get what you pay for. ;) Oct 06 21:27:46 Are there any ideas/news/rumours on PyQT for freemantle? Oct 06 21:27:51 If we wanted fast, friendly, reliable shipping services we'd have to be a lot less cheap. Oct 06 21:28:16 General: Hey, I paid premium rate, got the tracking number, waited for a week, getting more and more nervous Oct 06 21:28:55 General: Called them a few times, they marinated me between answering machines, then finally told me they can't track it Oct 06 21:28:59 Stskeeps: explode and you got only 1 and half page of posts? baaah, noob ;) Oct 06 21:29:14 rdorsch: sorry no idea, than try some other card to see if it is the device or card. Oct 06 21:29:28 javispedro: i should have mentioned something about clubbing gnus too. Oct 06 21:29:56 * javispedro ponders how many "revelations" left still exist that could potentially unleash hundred page posts.... Oct 06 21:30:02 j0 Oct 06 21:30:03 ok, sleep Oct 06 21:30:09 bye RST38h Oct 06 21:30:20 Cya Oct 06 21:30:25 johnsq: thanks. Oct 06 21:31:03 javispedro: Did you know that Mameo 5 doesn't support portrait mode! Oct 06 21:31:13 rdorsch: sorry, but didn't sound good for the device Oct 06 21:31:14 aaaaaaaaargh to Maemo typo again! Oct 06 21:31:32 Maemo. Oct 06 21:31:34 Maemo Oct 06 21:31:37 Mae Oct 06 21:31:39 javispedro, and it's not capacitive! Oct 06 21:31:39 Jaffa: noway?! Oct 06 21:31:46 mameo would be a pretty cool name though Oct 06 21:31:51 I'm sick. I can't even mispell Maemo properly!! Oct 06 21:31:51 javispedro, I also hear it runs on kittens! Oct 06 21:32:02 Meam Oct 06 21:32:02 Dealbreaker. Oct 06 21:32:05 johnsq: not a problem, it still has warranty. Oct 06 21:32:08 Absolutely. Oct 06 21:32:10 I heard that kitten skins were used to make the screen actually Oct 06 21:32:12 Puppies, yeah. But kittens? Oct 06 21:32:25 I don't understand how Nokia could be so stupid as to do this! It's a dealbreaker for me and *everyone* I know. Oct 06 21:32:27 GeneralAntilles: no wai!!! Oct 06 21:32:53 Pyqt page seems a bit sleepy... Oct 06 21:32:55 range, I'm pretty sure Quim spits on them before they're processed, too. Oct 06 21:33:02 it doesn't come with a Super Mario World wallpapear!! ----> I'm not buying. Oct 06 21:33:08 Estimated Fare using meter at 08:40 Distance: 16.66 km. | Duration: 22 min. first 2000 meters 7.50 € 14.66 km. x 2.20 € per km 32.27 € Total 39.77 € Oct 06 21:33:11 Oh but it does! Oct 06 21:33:11 OMG ! Oct 06 21:33:15 Jaffa: Huh? Oct 06 21:33:20 taxi is expensive at Amsterdamn Oct 06 21:33:22 * GeneralAntilles loves the Super Mario wallpaper. Oct 06 21:33:22 ! Oct 06 21:33:32 GeneralAntilles: The Mario World one? Oct 06 21:33:35 Khertan, airport to hotel? Oct 06 21:33:46 the Mario world wallpaper is awesome Oct 06 21:33:52 I just saw it earlier today. I'm using SMB1 wallpaper. ;) Oct 06 21:33:52 GeneralAntilles: pretty cool indeed. Built it into the device bootloader so it can't be reflashed out! Oct 06 21:34:10 airport to WesterGasFabriek Oct 06 21:34:19 Khertan, the train is, like, €3.60. You need to get off at Central station which is about a block from the hotel. Oct 06 21:34:19 Ah Oct 06 21:34:28 Well, you could take the train and then a bus. Oct 06 21:34:30 I love mine wallpaper, all other suck!!111) Oct 06 21:34:38 Or the train and a taxi, I suppose. Oct 06 21:34:39 yep ... i ll do that Oct 06 21:34:50 train then bus Oct 06 21:34:57 just surprize by the price Oct 06 21:35:04 * javispedro notices he could reveal all those "revelations" into a idiot maemo fanboy forum whose members still don't know "it's not exactly like symbian".... Oct 06 21:35:09 *grin* Oct 06 21:35:23 do it Oct 06 21:35:44 it's not capacitive! only the phone works in portrait! no stylus keyboard! no mms! Oct 06 21:35:58 GeneralAntilles: did you know how time it s take to go to the Central station ? Oct 06 21:36:08 Khertan, think it's about 20 minutes. Oct 06 21:36:16 Maybe less Oct 06 21:36:21 hum ... not so bad Oct 06 21:36:21 * GeneralAntilles sighs again. Oct 06 21:36:22 ok Oct 06 21:36:37 taxi seems to be 16min :) Oct 06 21:36:57 as i'm arriving Friday at 8h40 Oct 06 21:37:02 and 50 eur or something equally insane Oct 06 21:37:05 you know whats disappointing me? Oct 06 21:37:20 everything Oct 06 21:37:41 Tadthebuilder: dealbreaker! not buying? Oct 06 21:37:48 exactly Oct 06 21:37:57 the fact that linux is evil and its based on linux is a deal breaker!!!! Oct 06 21:38:07 how dare they open the source!! Oct 06 21:38:15 * SpeedEvil ponders Manic Miner wallpaper. Oct 06 21:38:18 They're all just justifying not being able to afford it. :P Oct 06 21:38:34 GeneralAntilles++ Oct 06 21:38:49 personally I just say im not going to be able to afford it :) Oct 06 21:39:03 FFS. "Media format not supported". I'd hoped I'd seen the last of that damned thing. Oct 06 21:39:27 Somebody needs to put together the pano source package template. Oct 06 21:39:32 * GeneralAntilles nominates javispedro. Oct 06 21:39:40 Jaffa, h.264 support seems . . . limited. Oct 06 21:39:49 * javispedro packs stuff and hides in alaska Oct 06 21:40:31 Muahaha! I know people in Alaska. No hiding there! Oct 06 21:40:38 GeneralAntilles: This is bog-standard MPEG-4/DivX Oct 06 21:40:52 1024x760. 5 fps. No audio. Oct 06 21:41:03 Ah, interesting. Oct 06 21:41:06 Jaffa: does it work in PC gstreamer? Oct 06 21:41:18 javispedro: It works in totem yeah Oct 06 21:41:20 I've had great luck with $RANDOM source minus fansubs. Oct 06 21:41:25 No probs. Looked really good. Oct 06 21:41:30 :S Oct 06 21:41:57 Yay, my video's on my device so I can practice on the pllane at least. Oct 06 21:42:03 * javispedro goes to play with the nokia-apps in the SDK. and drool. Oct 06 21:42:12 It looks like it's running Eclipse. Teehee Oct 06 21:42:39 Oh, the Nokia apps are in the SDK now? Oct 06 21:42:49 zerojay: yup Oct 06 21:42:50 zerojay: didn't you get the memo? :) Oct 06 21:43:03 javispedro: Fancy trying Hermes in the SDK, now it's got Contacts? :-) Oct 06 21:43:08 lol... too busy on the actual device. ;P Oct 06 21:43:17 * Jaffa ponders building the pure-Python version. Oct 06 21:43:24 damn conspirators :( Oct 06 21:43:39 zerojay: http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Final_SDK/Discover_Maemo_5 Oct 06 21:43:48 everything shown there is on sdk Oct 06 21:44:03 I wonder why Nokia did that.... Oct 06 21:44:28 but pretty cool either way and way above what I expected :) Oct 06 21:45:44 oh ... i ve miss too the final sdk news ! Oct 06 21:47:13 apt get dist-upgrade failed Oct 06 21:47:14 grrr Oct 06 21:47:36 Yeah, gstreamer packages cause trouble. Oct 06 21:47:40 Have to start over, apparently. Oct 06 21:48:08 yeah, and also there's new hacks for /home/user and /opt. Oct 06 21:48:09 fuck ! Oct 06 21:48:18 /scratchbox/tools/bin/sh: line 1: /usr/sbin/dpkg-preconfigure: No such file or directory Oct 06 21:48:20 http://www.churchdb.org/ would it be possible to set that up an lamp server the n800? Oct 06 21:48:44 Tadthebuilder: of course ... but nginx is recommended Oct 06 21:48:54 with php5 Oct 06 21:48:56 not sure what that is? Oct 06 21:49:04 ive set up a lamp server before Oct 06 21:49:06 on my ubuntu desktop Oct 06 21:49:13 nginx is a web server Oct 06 21:49:15 nginx ... an other http server Oct 06 21:49:16 ah okay Oct 06 21:49:23 like apache, but with less documentation P Oct 06 21:49:29 use less memory than apache Oct 06 21:49:33 i really just need something to track visitation recording....that might be a bit over kill... Oct 06 21:49:42 Khertan: Well, it does much less too Oct 06 21:49:49 Hmm... would anyone be interested in a NES Metroid wallpaper? Oct 06 21:49:54 is fastest ... but magement of multi connection is worse Oct 06 21:50:02 jeremiah: of course Oct 06 21:50:21 Tadthebuilder: so apache is overkill Oct 06 21:50:23 ;) Oct 06 21:50:26 use nginx Oct 06 21:50:27 * Tadthebuilder thinks maybe I should over a bounty Oct 06 21:50:29 well Oct 06 21:50:34 i think both might be over kill Oct 06 21:50:36 ... Oct 06 21:50:46 There is lighttpd too Oct 06 21:50:51 like how hard would it be to have a contact like program where you can click the person name and record when you talked to them? Oct 06 21:50:55 or python :) Oct 06 21:50:57 Though I don't know if anyone has ported that to maemo Oct 06 21:51:06 and then view all those meetings in a list Oct 06 21:51:07 zerojay, anything retro gaming I'll go for. :P Oct 06 21:51:16 GeneralAntilles: You got it. Oct 06 21:51:33 so no way to upgrade the beta sdk to final sdk ? Oct 06 21:53:03 ill send whoever makes above mentioned program for the n800 35 USD Oct 06 21:54:11 it will be difficult as n800 isn't a phone Oct 06 21:54:13 :) Oct 06 21:54:30 the other program Oct 06 21:54:34 i will type in the data Oct 06 21:54:44 just have like a database of contacts Oct 06 21:54:57 that I can click on and add information concerning what and how and when I contacted that person Oct 06 21:55:05 so that I have a list for each person Oct 06 21:55:39 fatal^: Vala 0.7.7 is in Diablo extras-devel and going through autobuilder for fremantle. Oct 06 21:55:44 (I know the n800 is not a phone I have one for two years and I love it) Oct 06 21:56:14 * Khertan is fighting with his SDK ... Oct 06 21:56:47 nice loop ... dpkg pre install script require dpkg Oct 06 21:56:50 grrr Oct 06 22:00:37 shit ... i take more time trying to make that sdk working that using it to dev Oct 06 22:01:20 grrrr will simply rm it ... ! Oct 06 22:01:23 good night Oct 06 22:01:24 bye Oct 06 22:03:21 by Oct 06 22:04:47 * javispedro loves the "Write message" [sic] HildonBanner while trying to send an empty message in SMS app. Oct 06 22:04:56 is that a new writing style? : Oct 06 22:04:57 :D Oct 06 22:05:42 not to mention the "Add recipient" counterpart message... Oct 06 22:05:51 http://civicrm.org/ how difficult would a port of that be? Oct 06 22:05:52 ... yeaaaah. Oct 06 22:06:05 It's stuff like that which is making me push for community translation. Oct 06 22:06:14 Which... well... kind of already happens a little bit. Oct 06 22:06:29 what is that from? Oct 06 22:06:31 hopefully. Oct 06 22:06:46 Tadthebuilder, the what? Oct 06 22:07:17 that phrase "write mesage hildonbanner while trying to send an empty message in sms app Oct 06 22:07:29 Tadthebuilder: final SDK. didn't you get the memo either? Oct 06 22:07:38 not a developer...:) Oct 06 22:07:46 dont ask why im in the developer irc Oct 06 22:07:55 what developer irc? Oct 06 22:08:00 isnt that what this is? Oct 06 22:08:06 i feel like im the only person who isnt a developer Oct 06 22:08:08 ... Oct 06 22:08:10 :P) Oct 06 22:08:21 Tadthebuilder: 335 total users. you're not the only one. Oct 06 22:08:25 true Oct 06 22:08:43 * zerojay fires up Maelstrom... good ole Maelstrom. Oct 06 22:09:21 civicrm says that it can be ran without a network Oct 06 22:09:26 on a single device Oct 06 22:09:36 would it be possible to get it working an n800? Oct 06 22:09:41 Aww... controls don't work. :/ Oct 06 22:09:48 Tadthebuilder, this is anything Maemo Oct 06 22:09:52 http://civicrm.org/download Oct 06 22:09:53 Tadthebuilder: given enough time and resources... Oct 06 22:09:55 Tadthebuilder: just try a simple editor for your task. Oct 06 22:10:05 thats going to be very repetitive :) Oct 06 22:10:16 I was hoping to not have to type names in every time haha Oct 06 22:10:46 either way civicrm is anything but lightweight, seems. Oct 06 22:10:51 Tadthebuilder: good editors have interactive search. Oct 06 22:10:57 true Oct 06 22:10:59 good point Oct 06 22:11:03 yeah its not lightweight Oct 06 22:11:04 not at all Oct 06 22:11:16 any suggested editor for n800? Oct 06 22:12:34 Tadthebuilder: maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/vim/ Oct 06 22:13:04 ill check it out Oct 06 22:13:11 watching defying gravity Oct 06 22:13:20 ive used vim before Oct 06 22:13:23 its command line only right? Oct 06 22:13:40 but now that I think about it It may be perfect for my needs Oct 06 22:14:10 Tadthebuilder: no, i don't know if the maemo version includes or is only the gtk version. Oct 06 22:14:36 includes what? Oct 06 22:14:49 Tadthebuilder: the gui version Oct 06 22:14:58 ah okay Oct 06 22:17:00 one day im going to need to learn how to code Oct 06 22:17:07 I think it would help my productivity... Oct 06 22:17:12 not sure if im smart enough though Oct 06 22:17:15 in what way Oct 06 22:17:29 would it help my productivity? Oct 06 22:17:33 or in what way am I not smart enough? Oct 06 22:17:37 the first Oct 06 22:17:47 well If I thought of something I had to do repeatedly Oct 06 22:17:53 that could be done smoother with the help of a program Oct 06 22:18:01 I could program it thus making more efficient in the long run Oct 06 22:18:04 coding has actually decreased my productivity in other things... especially school Oct 06 22:18:19 I could see that being true also Oct 06 22:18:34 Firebird: true :9 Oct 06 22:18:42 I totally messed up the first week of school :/ Oct 06 22:18:55 what level school? Oct 06 22:19:05 GeneralAntilles: You know what's great about using NES games for N900 backgrounds? Oct 06 22:19:27 Tadthebuilder, junior year of high school, "the only year that counts" Oct 06 22:19:33 oh Oct 06 22:19:37 you have an NES emulator running in the background, zerojay? Oct 06 22:19:40 I though that was the first years of a masters degree... haha Oct 06 22:19:47 GeneralAntilles: NES resolution = 256x240. 240 = 2x... perfect for backgrounds. :) Oct 06 22:19:47 heh Oct 06 22:19:48 zerojay: that you can enjoy the fine typeface nintendo uses for their cease& desist letters? >:) Oct 06 22:19:49 Tadthebuilder, ThinkingRock is good for productivity. Oct 06 22:20:00 whats thinking rock? Oct 06 22:20:01 sheepbat: I could, but no. Oct 06 22:20:10 javispedro: Pfffft. :) Oct 06 22:20:14 Tadthebuilder, time/task/life management Oct 06 22:20:17 Hehe Oct 06 22:20:26 i definitly need that Oct 06 22:20:29 I am so disorganized Oct 06 22:20:35 and its hurting Oct 06 22:20:35 ... Oct 06 22:20:46 zerojay: 239 pixels tall. Oct 06 22:21:12 If GIMP will listen to me, anyways. Oct 06 22:21:42 either way a 1 px line is like... 0.1mm in n900? Oct 06 22:21:48 where can I find a manual for vim? Oct 06 22:22:05 Tadthebuilder: vim.org Oct 06 22:22:34 are you completely sure you should introduce him to vim at this age? :D Oct 06 22:23:01 javispedro: i have eaten vi with the mother milk :) Oct 06 22:23:02 graphics who needs em Oct 06 22:23:25 if I can handle drwaf fortress and nethack I should be able to handle a graphicless text editor right? Oct 06 22:23:36 I guess that's the spirit. Oct 06 22:23:41 ddddddd Oct 06 22:23:46 Dddd Oct 06 22:23:58 * SpeedEvil ponders how many will get the subtle error. Oct 06 22:24:02 Important Summit Announcement : coming soon to http://maemo.org/news/planet-maemo/ Oct 06 22:24:05 why no thinkingrock for n800 Oct 06 22:24:25 windows mobile is dead! Oct 06 22:24:38 as much as the poort palmos. Oct 06 22:24:40 rejoice! Oct 06 22:24:58 I refuse to rejoice at the failure of others :) Oct 06 22:25:06 thats like laughing at the kid who gets tripped and dropps his food Oct 06 22:25:10 all of the cafeteria Oct 06 22:25:13 its not his fault he is clumsy Oct 06 22:25:22 lol Oct 06 22:25:36 Failure in business is a natural part of the economic process. ;) Oct 06 22:25:44 It keeps things efficient. Oct 06 22:25:49 Tadthebuilder: what, you never watched roadrunner vs coyote episodes? Oct 06 22:25:52 Which is why bailouts are so ridiculous. Oct 06 22:26:28 * Tadthebuilder no argument from this almost libertarian Oct 06 22:26:53 ah thinkingrock is java Oct 06 22:26:58 GeneralAntilles: Hope you like Brinstar. Oct 06 22:26:59 anything similar not java? Oct 06 22:27:14 zerojay, we need to con somebody into setting up a package system for these panos. Oct 06 22:27:40 Yeah, definitely. Oct 06 22:27:44 what you mean? Oct 06 22:27:48 a template packaging? Oct 06 22:28:07 javispedro, so we can distribute pano backgrounds without having to explain to people where they need to put 5 files. Oct 06 22:28:34 so something automated and not requiring the sdk I guess. Oct 06 22:28:38 javispedro, the idea would be a source package template that we can connect a web form to to generate stuff that can be thrown at the autobuilder. Oct 06 22:29:29 So, somebody goes to http://n900backgrounds.com, clicks "Submit background", selects "Panoramic" uploads the 4 images, enters description/copyright information and then the script generates a source package that a moderator can review and then submit to the autobuilder. Oct 06 22:29:58 rmt: can you verify no spyware, adware, malware, in thinkingrock? (I like to be sure on non open source software Oct 06 22:30:05 Finally, the .install file gets linked from the site and all that has to happen to install a background is for the user to tap the nice green "Install" arrow on their device. Oct 06 22:30:20 general this is why we call you general Oct 06 22:30:50 sounds like a two-day coding session :D Oct 06 22:31:58 That's His Lordship and Imperial Highness Emperor Field Marshal Antilles to you. Oct 06 22:32:45 nah Oct 06 22:32:51 Im an america...dont like royalty :) Oct 06 22:32:59 also Oct 06 22:33:03 dont like spelling write Oct 06 22:33:05 right Oct 06 22:33:07 * Oct 06 22:33:17 Im an america and so can you Oct 06 22:33:29 Tadthebuilder: thinkingrock is CDDL Oct 06 22:33:52 ah thanks Oct 06 22:33:59 i feel better now :) Oct 06 22:34:04 GeneralAntilles: Oh yeah... the .desktop file also. Oct 06 22:34:36 zerojay, it wouldn't be so bad if we could make the .desktop visible, but it'll clutter up Images awfully quickly. Oct 06 22:34:42 desktop file for what? Oct 06 22:34:48 Panoramic backgrounds. Oct 06 22:35:00 ah, they do need a desktop file too. sorry. Oct 06 22:35:07 Sets all four backgrounds at the same time, I guess. Oct 06 22:35:14 http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=340629&postcount=51 Oct 06 22:35:15 makes sense Oct 06 22:35:39 Invisble .desktop files will need to be installed to $MYDOCS/.images/ Oct 06 22:35:51 GeneralAntilles: Thanks. Oct 06 22:36:22 $MYDOCS? it won't enumerate the usual /usr/share/ locations? Oct 06 22:36:33 GeneralAntilles: So it's just supposed to be [themename].desktop then? Oct 06 22:36:35 javispedro, good question, I haven't investigated. Oct 06 22:36:45 javispedro, but, yeah, better to stick it there if it's a .deb install. Oct 06 22:36:55 how many people have n900s at the moment? Oct 06 22:37:06 zerojay, yeah, but invisible. Oct 06 22:38:47 http://maemo.org/news/planet-maemo/ Oct 06 22:39:05 GeneralAntilles: especially for you! Oct 06 22:39:21 OK, somebody figure out where nseries_0[14].jpg are hiding. Oct 06 22:39:34 lbt, wont be there. Oct 06 22:39:54 oh? Oct 06 22:39:59 bbs Oct 06 22:40:06 Screwed over by the State Department. Oct 06 22:40:12 Passport was a total clusterfuck. Oct 06 22:40:35 oh bollocks Oct 06 22:40:37 sorry mate Oct 06 22:40:42 Yeah. :\ Oct 06 22:40:50 what... maemo5 uses pulseaudio? Oct 06 22:41:07 * SpeedEvil passes GeneralAntilles a large wheel of cheese to console him. Oct 06 22:41:09 * Firebird brings out the firing squad Oct 06 22:41:13 (they thought he was trying to smuggle drugs back in the contry) Oct 06 22:41:13 Firebird: yes Oct 06 22:41:17 country* Oct 06 22:41:27 pulseaudio is some crap :/ Oct 06 22:41:27 I saw some chat on quick passport applications - no time? Oct 06 22:41:58 lbt, I expedited it which should've taken 1-3 weeks. Oct 06 22:42:02 GeneralAntilles: /usr/share/themes/alpha/backgrounds/wallpaper{1,2,3,4}.png Oct 06 22:42:03 That started 7 weeks ago. Oct 06 22:42:05 * Tadthebuilder is confused by vim Oct 06 22:42:08 It shipped this morning. Oct 06 22:42:21 and /usr/share/themes/alpha/backgrounds/theme_bg.desktop Oct 06 22:42:32 Which could've worked out, but unfortunately they decided to ship it standard instead of overnight like I paid for. Oct 06 22:42:35 Firebird: it's better than esd... Oct 06 22:42:53 I like pure alsa Oct 06 22:43:23 Although admittedly developers have had 10 years to familiarize themselves with esd's bugs and work around them somewhat. Pulse is still adding bugs :) Oct 06 22:43:25 Firebird: dmix is crap, so since dsp no longer mixes... Oct 06 22:43:42 Yeah dmix is worse than pulse Oct 06 22:43:48 Less predictable Oct 06 22:43:49 ... Oct 06 22:43:51 javispedro, OK, I see the .desktop there, where to stick add-on backgrounds then? Oct 06 22:44:02 isn't mixing just A+B+C / 3? Oct 06 22:44:03 dunno, I am not a gtk theming guru... :P Oct 06 22:44:15 javispedro, what good are you, then? Oct 06 22:44:20 luke-jr_: I wish. Oct 06 22:44:32 GeneralAntilles: It's a trap! Oct 06 22:45:08 luke-jr_: you must also handle clipping Oct 06 22:45:41 johnsq: an average is never larger than the inputs... Oct 06 22:45:41 And you must report accurate buffer fill status to all apps involved Oct 06 22:45:49 And accurate delay information Oct 06 22:46:02 there should be no delay :/ Oct 06 22:46:37 but who needs mixing? kill all the gimmicks and use real apps! Oct 06 22:46:42 There is a buffer in sound chip, in ram, in mixer app. 3 sources of delay already. Oct 06 22:47:03 luke-jr_: an average doesn't work Oct 06 22:47:17 luke-jr_: or your sound gets quieter as you mix more sources Oct 06 22:47:18 ShadowJK: nooooooooo :( Oct 06 22:47:36 ShadowJK: delay means phone is impossible... Oct 06 22:47:41 so N900 can't have delay Oct 06 22:47:56 You're assuming the audio goes through the SoC Oct 06 22:48:01 this is probably not true. Oct 06 22:48:03 delay makes nothing impossible, unpredictable delay does. Oct 06 22:48:12 SpeedEvil: then how would you use a Bluetooth headset? Oct 06 22:48:27 javispedro: delay makes real-time two-way audio (eg, phones) impossible Oct 06 22:48:37 I don't <5 second latency. Oct 06 22:48:41 er.. Oct 06 22:48:46 I don't need < 5 seconds latency. Oct 06 22:48:48 luke-jr_: in one phone I'm familiar with, the bluetooth headset is wired to the sound mixer chip Oct 06 22:48:54 luke-jr_: excessive delay Oct 06 22:48:56 * Tadthebuilder thinks he finally got into vim to type... Oct 06 22:49:06 luke-jr_: you get 10ms in real life just by being 3m away Oct 06 22:49:43 SpeedEvil: bluetooth headsets are wireless Oct 06 22:50:04 luke-jr_: to restate, the bluetooth wireless module is wired... Oct 06 22:50:10 * javispedro retracts the < 5 second assumption after doing a reality check. Oct 06 22:50:24 Phone has delay Oct 06 22:50:41 Just take two phones, call yourself Oct 06 22:50:52 And listen to the delay :) Oct 06 22:51:01 (I dont know if....vim is going to work for my needs. Oct 06 22:51:09 im still gonna try though( Oct 06 22:51:31 With phone the delay matters less because you dont need lipsync with video.. Oct 06 22:51:34 In 'real' life, you have four GSM codec delays in the signal path Oct 06 22:51:41 Tadthebuilder, vim is a life skill. Oct 06 22:51:47 (each way) Oct 06 22:52:09 yeah but I should probbaly learn how to use it with a real keyboard Oct 06 22:52:11 before an on screen one Oct 06 22:52:13 Unless you're doing video calls, in which case you only need same delay on video, and it's fine... Where accurate delay reporting need comes in Oct 06 22:52:40 IIRC it's on the order of 250ms or so when it starts becoming awkward. Oct 06 22:53:34 * Tadthebuilder created and named a file!!!! Oct 06 22:54:24 ShadowJK: no delay Oct 06 22:54:58 normal phones use the same wire pair for both directions Oct 06 22:55:00 luke-jr_: with a conventional phone, the delay will be single digit milliseconds Oct 06 22:55:10 luke-jr_: however, mobiles do not Oct 06 22:55:19 luke-jr_: for example - a typical GSM call goes: Oct 06 22:55:46 i ordered a pizza Oct 06 22:55:51 and am starving Oct 06 22:55:53 MaceN8x0: SHARE IT Oct 06 22:55:56 High five! Oct 06 22:56:02 waiting on it Oct 06 22:56:08 SpeedEvil, single digit millisecond for voice transfer for a conventional phone? Oct 06 22:56:11 "A typical GSM call goes like: 'I ordered a pizza and am starting'". Oct 06 22:56:17 luke-jr_: mic->A/D->GSM codec -> radio + errors ->GSM codec ->IDSN between base-stations -> GSM codec->RF + errors ->GSM codec ->D/A ->speaker Oct 06 22:56:41 Where the codecs may not all be the same type Oct 06 22:57:10 * GeneralAntilles mutters at his uncooperative turkey sandwich. Oct 06 22:57:12 SpeedEvil, 10 miles even at the speed of light is 18 milliseconds Oct 06 22:57:36 * javispedro imagines A/D conversions at the speed of light Oct 06 22:57:49 or gsm encoding, for the matter. Oct 06 22:58:04 how about my cell phone that has analog? Oct 06 22:58:07 I raise nanoseconds Oct 06 22:58:14 crashanddie__: 10m - sound Oct 06 22:58:30 luke-jr_: In the UK? Oct 06 22:58:38 SpeedEvil: no clue Oct 06 22:58:39 SpeedEvil, what were you refering to as "single digit milliseconds"? Oct 06 22:58:40 was all shut off ages ago Oct 06 22:58:57 crashanddie__: phone-normal-phone in the same exchange area Oct 06 22:59:07 that's what I said Oct 06 22:59:09 crashanddie__: it's not 'instant' anymore as it's digitised Oct 06 22:59:28 well, even if it's analogue over a copper wire, going nearly at the speed of light, is not instant Oct 06 22:59:40 Hey VIM is not so hard...I figured out some stuff about it Oct 06 22:59:47 im sure ill pick up future things that will help more Oct 06 22:59:48 but Oct 06 22:59:50 hey Oct 06 22:59:53 I can edit text... Oct 06 23:00:03 crashanddie__: mhh but for the signal travelling at the speed of light, it feels instant ;) Oct 06 23:00:10 The first paper I found says 191ms for GSM network delay Oct 06 23:00:12 which seems sane Oct 06 23:01:21 meant to say "to the signal it feels instant" Oct 06 23:01:32 Tadthebuilder, the more important part is that now you can edit text on nearly any *nix system you encounter. Oct 06 23:01:43 well Oct 06 23:01:48 ah Oct 06 23:01:50 that makes sense Oct 06 23:01:58 I can edit text in gedit on my ubuntu box :) Oct 06 23:02:20 SpeedEvil, oh, my bad, I misread that in units, 10 miles at light of speed is actually .05 ms, or 53k ns Oct 06 23:02:24 the most important part is I can use this to do what I need until I can talk someone into taking my bounty... Oct 06 23:02:32 I can edit text in googledocs on ANY operating system with a web interface. That doesn't mean its the smart thing to do, Tadthebuilder. Oct 06 23:02:46 true Oct 06 23:02:48 understood Oct 06 23:02:59 crashanddie__: by 'instant' - I mean that for a single-exchange call in 1980 or so, the delay may be around 120us or so. Oct 06 23:03:09 crashanddie__: now, it's going to be several times more than that Oct 06 23:03:24 crashanddie__: GSM is a couple of orders of magnitude worse Oct 06 23:03:26 does that include the operator switching cables? Oct 06 23:04:23 (what the escape key onthe n800? to get me out of insert mode?) Oct 06 23:04:23 isn't that like saying that adsl is worse than telegram, because the information is modulated and demodulated constantly? Oct 06 23:04:36 Tadthebuilder, should be on screen in the console Oct 06 23:04:41 the back key also. Oct 06 23:04:49 found it Oct 06 23:04:51 thanks Oct 06 23:04:58 im such a newb... Oct 06 23:05:00 It's a valid point - the delay with modern systems is larger for a number of reasons. For most applications this isn't an issue. Oct 06 23:05:23 SpeedEvil, the main difference is that the amount of information that can be passed through is a lot higher Oct 06 23:05:32 SpeedEvil, meaning latency becomes less relevant than throughput Oct 06 23:05:45 No - I mean for voice calls Oct 06 23:05:51 For which throughput has not changed Oct 06 23:05:51 my point exactly Oct 06 23:05:57 actually, it has Oct 06 23:06:03 the sound quality has increased drastically Oct 06 23:06:08 just look at skype Oct 06 23:06:31 throughput - words/minute - remains constant though. Oct 06 23:06:36 stereo phone conversations? Rather than the crackling of other people's voices on your conversation? Oct 06 23:07:05 you're being intentionally daft, argument is over from this point Oct 06 23:07:15 The UK never really suffered from that that much. Oct 06 23:07:27 but... Oct 06 23:07:51 Vulcanis: no, you can't Oct 06 23:08:01 Vulcanis: Google apps are so buggy and broken that they only work in Firefox and IE Oct 06 23:08:05 and maybe Safari Oct 06 23:08:10 (and obviously Chrome) Oct 06 23:08:17 wait Oct 06 23:08:28 luke-jr_, and that doesn't "ANY" operating system, how exactly? Oct 06 23:08:37 safari, firefox, Ie, and Chrome = 99.99 percent of all internet users right? Oct 06 23:08:38 crashanddie__: hm? Oct 06 23:08:55 unless you coun't CP/M, but he did specify "any operating system with a web interface" Oct 06 23:08:57 Tadthebuilder: irrelevant Oct 06 23:09:07 where the hell did that apostrophe come from Oct 06 23:09:15 Konqueror is better than all 4 Oct 06 23:09:19 what moden os cannot run atleast one of those four? Oct 06 23:09:48 DOS Oct 06 23:09:50 all of them, no? Oct 06 23:09:51 uh Oct 06 23:09:53 Tadthebuilder: anything KDE-based where you don't have access Oct 06 23:09:55 old ones Oct 06 23:10:23 or where you don't want to run non-native apps Oct 06 23:10:49 "works for 99% of idiots" is not "standards compliant and works right" Oct 06 23:10:59 especially when the former means Google just gives each browser different code Oct 06 23:11:12 eg, ActiveX on IE Oct 06 23:11:17 luke-jr_, you do realise there's a Qt port of Firefox? Oct 06 23:11:28 um Oct 06 23:11:32 I can run firefox inside of KDe Oct 06 23:11:42 Tadthebuilder, he means "exclusive based on Qt" Oct 06 23:11:46 crashanddie__: yes, not officially supported and not actually shipped with any distro Oct 06 23:11:58 Tadthebuilder, because IIRC, Firefox isn't using Qt or blablabla Oct 06 23:12:02 Tadthebuilder: not if you lack a compiler or root Oct 06 23:12:06 rawr distro wars go! Oct 06 23:12:23 plus, Firefox is a resource hog Oct 06 23:12:24 I have konquerer but I cannot stand Oct 06 23:12:27 it so never use it Oct 06 23:12:35 Tadthebuilder, he's just annoyed that even though he has 5 gazillion tons of RAM, he has to use an app that actually has dependencies, OMG Oct 06 23:12:44 Firefox gets us cheap RAM. Oct 06 23:12:45 haha Oct 06 23:12:56 I would like a browser that uses less ram Oct 06 23:13:01 only 512 mrgs Oct 06 23:13:02 Konqueror is pretty ideal Oct 06 23:13:07 links Oct 06 23:13:16 GAN800, GET Oct 06 23:13:21 links is decent for "Web 1.0" Oct 06 23:13:28 links is such a memory hog Oct 06 23:13:31 wtf? Oct 06 23:13:39 GET never uses more than 600k of RAM Oct 06 23:13:51 Tadthebulder, why not spend the $20 to get another stick of 1GB? ;) Oct 06 23:13:51 crashanddie__: wow, that's a lot for something like GET Oct 06 23:13:53 links easily goes over 1.2 megs Oct 06 23:14:07 GAN800: $20 won't get another 1 GB of RAM if your system is old enough to only have 512 MB Oct 06 23:14:22 GAN800: DDR 1 and PC133 are easily over $50 per GB Oct 06 23:14:23 yea Oct 06 23:14:27 it only takes ddr Oct 06 23:14:29 not ddr2 Oct 06 23:14:35 so it would cost about 50 dollars or more Oct 06 23:14:37 and yeah Oct 06 23:14:41 not to mention if he doesn't have slots Oct 06 23:14:48 I do have two slots Oct 06 23:14:50 question: if your system is old enough to only have 512 megs of RAM, why do you bother with a modern browser? Isn't that like saying "My Voodoo FX can't run Far Cry 2" Oct 06 23:14:51 with only one used Oct 06 23:15:05 crashanddie__: think of what channel you're in Oct 06 23:15:09 its only 5 or six years old Oct 06 23:15:10 most of us onyl have 128 MB RAM Oct 06 23:15:10 crashanddie__: 512 MiB is more than enough for a modern browser. Oct 06 23:15:11 im poor... Oct 06 23:15:19 luke-jr_, my point exactly Oct 06 23:15:22 I just got out of graduate school Oct 06 23:15:28 to a job that does not pay much... Oct 06 23:15:30 crashanddie__: the opposite of your point it seems Oct 06 23:15:39 luke-jr_, why are you *demanding* the same features as a full blown desktop browser if you're on a strapped environment? Oct 06 23:15:55 I've - comparatively - recently used FF1.5 on a 128M machine. Oct 06 23:15:56 because 128 MiB should be enough for everyone! Oct 06 23:16:01 javispedro, LMAO Oct 06 23:16:04 Even with 30 tabs open, it was fine. Oct 06 23:16:04 if any one has a 512 or gig of ddr ram id take it :) Oct 06 23:16:12 SpeedEvil: 192MiB, Firefox 3. Oct 06 23:16:19 and perfectly fine. Oct 06 23:16:59 SpeedEvil: FF 1.5 is not even supported Oct 06 23:17:07 javispedro: I agree. Oct 06 23:17:16 luke-jr_: no, it's not. Oct 06 23:17:31 you guys make me smile Oct 06 23:17:39 yes! Oct 06 23:17:44 Windows NT 3.1 requires 12 MB of RAM Oct 06 23:17:47 In painful reminding way of why corporations have such a hard time listening to "online communities" Oct 06 23:17:53 Windows 95 requires less than 4 MiB. Oct 06 23:17:57 what do we have now that NT 3.1 didn't have that justifies over 10 times the RAM use? Oct 06 23:17:58 luke-jr_: and it was a year ago. Oct 06 23:18:00 And I can still boot it in this computer. Oct 06 23:18:27 luke-jr_: More viruses! Oct 06 23:18:29 luke-jr_: easy. ability for coders to be lazy and concentrate on the more stupid features instead, like flashy icons. Oct 06 23:18:43 javispedro: I suspect that's accurate :// Oct 06 23:18:48 luke-jr_: higher bit-rate flesh0tones. Oct 06 23:19:07 luke-jr_, that question is so silly it's not worth answering. Oct 06 23:19:37 I'm going to print a t-shirt Oct 06 23:19:52 "Luke-Jr: Trolling just like Daddy taught me" Oct 06 23:20:08 aw, flaming is fun, cmon. Oct 06 23:20:09 :) Oct 06 23:20:10 40 dollars? Oct 06 23:20:15 GeneralAntilles: besides HD video, I can't think of much Oct 06 23:20:35 from an end-user perspective I mean Oct 06 23:20:43 search indexing Oct 06 23:20:46 You know what end users use? Oct 06 23:20:52 Faceebok, YouTube, MySpace Oct 06 23:20:53 I am an end user Oct 06 23:21:03 Any one of which can file up 100MB of RAM easy. Oct 06 23:21:07 GeneralAntilles: none of which have a good reason to require more than a few MB of RAM Oct 06 23:21:20 hm, GUI testing still only works under x86? Oct 06 23:21:23 Music, video, games. Oct 06 23:21:28 Firebird: yes Oct 06 23:21:40 luke-jr_, resolution? quality (a jpeg over 40px wide, and no, animated gifs don't count), live indexing, rss feeds, connectivity, more programs running at the same time -> actual multitasking, actual ability to do stuff: recording high quality content (audio, video) is possible, wasn't the case a few years ago Oct 06 23:21:41 GeneralAntilles: those all worked fine 10 years ago Oct 06 23:22:05 crashanddie__: I said "besides HD video" for a reason Oct 06 23:22:17 luke-jr_, then fuck off and go back to CP/M if you're not happy with the current state of affairs Oct 06 23:22:20 oh great, the infamous "You must close your other Scratchbox sessions first" Oct 06 23:22:26 Firebird: sb-conf ka Oct 06 23:22:43 crashanddie__: NT != CP/M Oct 06 23:22:49 crashanddie__: CP/M only needed a few KB Oct 06 23:22:52 I'm personally happy with the current state of affairs. I enjoy being lazy. Oct 06 23:22:52 thanks javispedro , does that like kill all open programs? Oct 06 23:23:01 Firebird: yes Oct 06 23:23:04 save the shell iirc. Oct 06 23:24:05 luke-jr_, better libraries, better overall integration and data distribution across applications. Signal handling has drastically improved, and things like HAL or D-BUS have become a reality, only because we more power Oct 06 23:24:20 * Tadthebuilder would like more ram Oct 06 23:24:31 s/more power/have more power, storage and RAM/ Oct 06 23:24:33 crashanddie__ meant: luke-jr_, better libraries, better overall integration and data distribution across applications. Signal handling has drastically improved, and things like HAL or D-BUS have become a reality, only because we have more power, storage and RAM Oct 06 23:24:47 crashanddie__: HAL is a bad joke Oct 06 23:24:49 crashanddie__: I'd stop adding functionality examples. Do you suggest that W95 didn't had IPC or Device Manager functionality for example? Oct 06 23:24:56 D-BUS is really nothing new, just standardized Oct 06 23:24:59 what I'd say is that what we have is nicer APIs. Oct 06 23:25:13 APIs which don't care to make an extra copy of a string, for example. Oct 06 23:25:28 ---> more developer friendlyness. Oct 06 23:25:32 is the problem that we stuck to C and never moved to C++? :p Oct 06 23:25:53 javispedro, not saying W95 didn't have IPC, but it sure has evolved a whole lot. And I'm not talking about named pipes and other crap, but something like D-BUS definitely made IPC a lot easier Oct 06 23:26:11 dunno the windows equivalent Oct 06 23:26:13 crashanddie__: made DEVELOPING and USING (developer) IPC easier. Oct 06 23:26:16 I was doing D-BUS type stuff at least a decade ago Oct 06 23:26:32 but the end user didn't gain any direct functionality from it. Oct 06 23:26:40 javispedro, which provides better integration across applications, and thus better user experience Oct 06 23:26:57 javispedro, never underestimate the power of "ease of development" as a benefit for end users Oct 06 23:27:04 Maemo is a perfect example of that Oct 06 23:27:04 crashanddie__: because then developers can be lazy and concentrate on the shiny icons. Oct 06 23:27:10 there are far more memory-friendly ways to do IPC than D-BUS Oct 06 23:27:14 I kinda like shiny icons Oct 06 23:27:15 and so we repeat the conversation again ;) Oct 06 23:27:16 crashanddie__: hahaha Oct 06 23:27:17 and spinning cubes Oct 06 23:27:19 Maemo is crap. Oct 06 23:27:40 javispedro, the main reason Maemo sucks for the public at large, is that the applications are shite Oct 06 23:27:47 hard-coded for a single user named "user" Oct 06 23:27:47 and text editors with graphical interphaces Oct 06 23:27:51 interfaces Oct 06 23:27:52 crashanddie__: wrong nick! Maemo rules here. :) Oct 06 23:28:01 javispedro, the reason the applications are shite, is because developers have to re-invent the wheel every week Oct 06 23:28:04 that's supposed to be a perfect example? Oct 06 23:28:18 Im someone from the public at large Oct 06 23:28:20 I think Oct 06 23:28:23 and I love maemo Oct 06 23:28:35 im not technical Oct 06 23:28:35 dont program Oct 06 23:28:37 fine Oct 06 23:28:38 have minimal linux knowledge Oct 06 23:28:44 how about that Maemo's IM subsystem doesn't work? Oct 06 23:28:44 avoid command line Oct 06 23:29:04 crashanddie__: and I agree. that's my point exactly. the only reason we're using more resources is because we don't concentrate any more on the proper use of resources and instead on the shiny icons. Oct 06 23:29:12 some idealists may say this is horribly wrong. Oct 06 23:29:15 I don't. Oct 06 23:29:18 I'm going to be the devil's advocate here for a second: Why does the iPhone have that many apps and happy users across the globe? Let's put the phone and shiny UI aside for a second, and just focus for a second on why the apps are popping up like faint mushrooms Oct 06 23:29:33 javispedro, I've been yelling that on roofs for quite some time Oct 06 23:29:43 cause people can make money on them Oct 06 23:29:45 crashanddie__: the shiny UI is the only reason AFAIK Oct 06 23:30:01 shiny UI sells it, which makes it a large target base Oct 06 23:30:10 add on top that those many iPhone owners have money to waste Oct 06 23:30:14 shiny UI can be nice Oct 06 23:30:20 the reason iPhone development "just works", is because the whole process is thought through. You get one API, a good simulator, a brushed documentation that is consistent and help that is consistent Oct 06 23:30:23 especially if it is intuitive Oct 06 23:30:53 They didn't give 5k developers 10k choices, they gave everyone the same choice. Done deal Oct 06 23:31:10 nah. Oct 06 23:31:19 but that would be a flame I don't want to get it :) Oct 06 23:31:37 The Freedom you get with Maemo is also its biggest downfall, too much choice is counter productive Oct 06 23:31:50 crashanddie__: who was who said C++ ruled? Oct 06 23:31:59 er.. Oct 06 23:32:01 eh? Oct 06 23:32:02 C++0x Oct 06 23:32:06 :o SDK is still ultra slow Oct 06 23:32:08 segfault, didn't compute Oct 06 23:32:25 ehem. Oct 06 23:32:33 either it wasn't you, so nm. Oct 06 23:32:37 bah. Oct 06 23:32:40 i need to sleep. Oct 06 23:32:48 didn't understand the question, actually Oct 06 23:32:57 yes, sorry, nm. Oct 06 23:32:58 crashanddie__: Qt has one API Oct 06 23:33:04 luke-jr_, which is fine Oct 06 23:33:19 luke-jr_, problem is, the first video I found when looking up the n800, was some fool running KDE off the device Oct 06 23:33:57 hmm Oct 06 23:34:00 hes probably a regular Oct 06 23:34:01 what you have with Maemo, is some guys running everything off their tablet. Compilation et all (lcuk), and only do C, and reinvent the wheel because the libs are too slow Oct 06 23:34:04 New version of Hermes about to hit autobuilder: pure Python for increased robustness, adds Facebook & Twitter profile URLs, add birthdays Oct 06 23:34:18 liqbase is awesome Oct 06 23:34:24 crashanddie__: you say that as if there's something better than KDE for the N8x0 Oct 06 23:34:35 liqbase is better than kde Oct 06 23:34:43 liqbase is awesome. Oct 06 23:34:50 crashanddie__: they reinvent the libs in iPhone too. only apple then bans them from the app store, and everybody complains. Oct 06 23:34:51 then you have the Python guys, who use ugly GTK, and you get the slowest applications ever, which need to think just to show a confirmation dialog Oct 06 23:35:13 everybody being 0,1% of the iphone users "with voice". the rest don't care. Oct 06 23:35:37 you've got some crazy lunatics who do everything in C++, and write absolute monstrosities with massive dependencies (I'm one of those, sadly) Oct 06 23:35:48 etc, etc, etc Oct 06 23:35:51 and the list just keeps on going Oct 06 23:36:01 which means that as a community, we're getting nowhere, because everyone is all over the place Oct 06 23:36:02 shrug Oct 06 23:36:10 I write good code at least. Oct 06 23:36:12 there's no one central point of advancement Oct 06 23:36:24 crashanddie__: maemo has one platform and one language: Hildon and C. Oct 06 23:36:24 i think that maemo 4 Oct 06 23:36:26 my latest long-running program used about 10 seconds of CPU time in a month. Oct 06 23:36:26 has progressed nicely Oct 06 23:36:30 sinces it first began Oct 06 23:36:35 and has alot more useful programs Oct 06 23:36:37 and a few KB of RAM Oct 06 23:36:38 and is more usable now then then Oct 06 23:36:43 crashanddie__: what's missing from maemo is jobs banning you from the store if you use anything else. Oct 06 23:36:55 javispedro, I don't think that's true Oct 06 23:36:56 javispedro: no. Maemo also has Python, Qt, etc etc Oct 06 23:36:59 crashanddie__: but that does not mean iphone devs enjoy ObjC. Oct 06 23:37:06 javispedro, what's killing Maemo is the wealth of choices Oct 06 23:37:14 crashanddie__: same wealth in iphone. Oct 06 23:37:22 crashanddie__: no, what's killing Maemo is bad and closed software Oct 06 23:37:35 oh let's not even go there Oct 06 23:37:38 crashanddie__: What Maemo needs is a killer choice (or all the options to be as good as they should be) Oct 06 23:37:51 Jaffa: Qt4 Oct 06 23:37:52 Jaffa, that would work too Oct 06 23:37:53 * Jaffa 's 5 min lightning talk on Saturday will go into more details Oct 06 23:38:02 Jaffa, I'll be sure to attend Oct 06 23:38:02 but even Maemo's Qt4 is not quite standard from what I recall Oct 06 23:38:06 choice is good Oct 06 23:38:14 Tadthebuilder, yes, but only to a point Oct 06 23:38:21 how many windows programs are there that burn music cds? Oct 06 23:38:23 luke-jr_: Gets partway. Still not as good as it should be. Oct 06 23:38:25 * luke-jr_ hopes Qt4 Maemo is decently coded Oct 06 23:38:27 choice is good, no matter what. defaults are better. Oct 06 23:38:29 hm Oct 06 23:38:39 two legs good four legs better Oct 06 23:38:40 Tadthebuilder, even the best of bakers can't make a profit from making 5000 different types of pastry when he only has 300 customers per day Oct 06 23:38:48 crashanddie__: Much of it should be familiar to you, TBH. Hopefully educational to others tho Oct 06 23:38:52 aye, Oct 06 23:38:57 and if nokia was making all the software I would agree Oct 06 23:39:04 but the beauty of maemo is the open development Oct 06 23:39:07 of the third part software Oct 06 23:39:15 thus we can have a program that will help you find bell towers Oct 06 23:39:19 or fifteen Oct 06 23:39:44 that's fine, have it Oct 06 23:39:52 but how is that going to make the community grow, or evolve? Oct 06 23:40:03 Because suddenly we've got Quasimodo hunching for Quim? Oct 06 23:40:11 how many phone models has nokia in store? Oct 06 23:40:25 I don't mind having weird, funky and glorious little apps, which are useful to 10 people Oct 06 23:40:34 but they're not what the central development model should be focusing on Oct 06 23:40:38 are you suggesting a tighter hand of control over the community? Oct 06 23:40:57 When I saw the VM that brought the whole development environment together in one place, I thought "Finally, we've reached a strong point" Oct 06 23:41:03 * Tadthebuilder is hoping someone will make a program that is useful to him and maybe ten other people but doubts it even with his bounty of 35 dollars Oct 06 23:41:22 aww, the web browser doesn't work in the SDK Oct 06 23:41:22 crashanddie__: IMHO,mobile SDKs tend to promote "weird, funky and glorious little apps". Oct 06 23:41:23 but we didn't. It was flakeware, and never lived to become the incentive it should've been Oct 06 23:41:44 Firebird: Hmm, wiki docs suggested it should Oct 06 23:41:49 javispedro, only when the "mobile SDK" already exists, which in Maemo, is not the case Oct 06 23:41:58 crashanddie__: +oo Oct 06 23:42:22 Jaffa, it shows a sort of history list, but when you click any of the items it just makes more history items Oct 06 23:42:22 +oo? Oct 06 23:42:29 +Inf I guess :P Oct 06 23:42:32 * Jaffa nods Oct 06 23:42:43 still didn't get it Oct 06 23:42:49 oh... "Operation temporarily disabled due to low memory" Oct 06 23:42:53 +1 x very big number Oct 06 23:43:01 crashanddie__: that you're right. maemo doesn't have a proper SDK yet. Oct 06 23:43:11 Tadthebuilder, I'm not saying anyone should put the community in check, no one can, this can only be a decision made by the community itself, by a number of developers together Oct 06 23:43:24 * Tadthebuilder is offering 35 dollars to any one who creates a program useful for keeping track of pastoral visitations and phone calls.... Oct 06 23:43:29 SDKs are flawed in theory Oct 06 23:43:39 software should be written for a purpose, not for a platform Oct 06 23:44:04 I agree with luke-jr there, but as usual, that doesn't go down well for the corporate world. Oct 06 23:44:14 Firebird, working OK here. Oct 06 23:44:18 And most people would like to write said software on something with a big screen and a nice keyboard. Oct 06 23:44:29 GeneralAntilles, having low mem issues Oct 06 23:44:32 And then test it on a device (or, if one is not available, as close to a device is available) Oct 06 23:44:39 GeneralAntilles, scratchbox limit perhaps? Oct 06 23:44:57 These utilities would often be bundled together in the form of a "kit" for "software development". Oct 06 23:45:12 lol Oct 06 23:45:15 I wanted to develop for the blackberry. I expensed a few quid to the company, and immediately had access to a device simulator, a doc with how-tos and hello-worlds, and a single language/API to start with. They didn't put littles stars and caveats on what OS I used, nor told me "you can do this, or this, or this, or this", and then if you ask a community, you're being told "oh no, don't do that, do this" Oct 06 23:45:16 luke-jr: javispedro: Exactly which bit of that high-level definition of "SDK" would you get rid of? Oct 06 23:45:17 Jaffa, clever. Oct 06 23:45:31 Jaffa: the entire term is wrong. Oct 06 23:45:41 The entire term is meaningless. Oct 06 23:45:44 Jaffa: it has only recently rised in popularity with the iPhone. Oct 06 23:45:54 and video games Oct 06 23:46:04 and car tuning Oct 06 23:46:06 Popularity, maybe. But I've been using mobile platform SDKs for over 15 years. Oct 06 23:46:08 and in fact apple is still google's first hit when looking for SDK. Oct 06 23:46:09 Oct 06 23:46:35 Jaffa: and they were anything more than a set of .h files? Oct 06 23:46:48 The term has a well defined meaning in computing. That it's now popular on Google for the iPhone SDK; or people use it wrongly; or the Maemo one sucks; doesn't devalue it from being a concept which is useful Oct 06 23:46:52 javispedro: A lot more. Oct 06 23:46:55 how the heck do I have low memory -_- there's like 3.4GB available Oct 06 23:47:08 javispedro: Toolchain, linker, emulator Oct 06 23:47:10 Jaffa: all of it. Oct 06 23:47:17 PS: this was something I always wanted to have a proper discussion about during a summit or something, just never got around to putting my ideas in a straight and well-layed out manner. Which causes me to go "oh fuck off you wanker" as soon as I'm caught unprepared Oct 06 23:47:24 write it like any other app on your computer, then cross-compile it for the device Oct 06 23:47:27 copy and run Oct 06 23:47:40 luke-jr_: And how does your typical developer install the right cross-compiler and libraries? Oct 06 23:47:45 Oh, they're shipped in a sodding SDK. Oct 06 23:47:58 Jaffa: their operating system's package manager Oct 06 23:48:18 this isn't 1980 Oct 06 23:48:23 cross compilers aren't black magic anymore Oct 06 23:48:27 woah Oct 06 23:48:35 you have 3.4 gigs of memory.... Oct 06 23:48:50 luke-jr_, cross compilers shouldn't require you to dump "0" in some file of your system's core files Oct 06 23:48:59 crashanddie__: so? Oct 06 23:49:02 luke-jr_: And how do I ensure on my OS that I have the correct libraries which will run on the device? How do I test on a device I don't have. Oct 06 23:49:11 ldd! Oct 06 23:49:13 ^_^ Oct 06 23:49:33 * Mousey isn't being a helper Oct 06 23:49:36 * Mousey goes back to lurking Oct 06 23:49:51 luke-jr_: This is what an SDK encompasses. It's like saying "you don't need a Linux distribution, you can just compile it all from scratch. Yes, you can. But most people will be more productive by taking the efforts of Ubuntu or Debian and getting down to real work Oct 06 23:49:53 Jaffa, clearly we need only to distribute hallucinogens to any interested developer. Oct 06 23:49:59 Then you can test whatever you want! Oct 06 23:50:07 * Mousey signs up! Oct 06 23:50:08 clearly. Oct 06 23:50:14 Jaffa: qmake -spec n810 && make Oct 06 23:50:27 well, there are quite a few interesting summit talks comming it seems :D Oct 06 23:50:31 one little two little three little endian Oct 06 23:50:38 GeneralAntilles, woohoo, free shrooms and absinthe for everyone at the summit Oct 06 23:50:50 Jaffa: and as far as testing, hire developers to add qemu support Oct 06 23:50:51 :( Oct 06 23:51:04 luke-jr_, why? Oct 06 23:51:20 what kind of benefits would any company get from developing qemu? Oct 06 23:51:39 any benefit that would warrant 180k a year Oct 06 23:51:47 (on the base of 3 devs) Oct 06 23:52:22 luke-jr_: And, under my definition (and that accepted by the software industry), the combination of qmake support - and knowledge - of the N810 (which wouldn't be shipped as standard with qmake because it should be a plugin), the qemu configuration, the qemu image and any tools to make it easy to insert the cross-compiled packages into the qemu image would fall under the term "Software Development Kit" Oct 06 23:52:35 crashanddie__: not writing your own emulator from scratch? Oct 06 23:53:14 I fail to see the business opportunity Oct 06 23:53:28 FREE INTERNETS! duh Oct 06 23:53:43 * Jaffa isn't saying "SDK" => separate VMware image, or chroot or anything like that. It means: a consistent configuration which you can easily install to start writing - and testing - applications for a device. Oct 06 23:53:43 oops.. i'm supposed to be lurking, sorry ^_^ Oct 06 23:53:54 Mousey: Bad mousey. I'll set the cattey on you... Oct 06 23:54:00 * Mousey hides! Oct 06 23:54:04 Jaffa, amen Oct 06 23:54:08 is the contacts app in maemo four open source? Oct 06 23:54:15 Jaffa: then you're clearly using the "modern" iPhone-era definition of SDK. Oct 06 23:54:18 maemo four lol Oct 06 23:54:25 javispedro: Eh? Oct 06 23:54:28 javispedro, no, he's using the correct one Oct 06 23:54:51 Well, I'd call that an IDE. Oct 06 23:54:51 javispedro: This use of the term "SDK" predate the iPhone. See the Java SDK for a modernish example. EPOC for the earlier one Oct 06 23:54:54 diablo then Oct 06 23:55:08 javispedro, or have you been silently ignoring parts of our argument just to suit your own view? Oct 06 23:55:37 javispedro: A modern IDE can meet many parts of that definition of SDK, yes. Oct 06 23:55:37 anyway Oct 06 23:55:39 late enough Oct 06 23:55:42 As can a VMware image or a chroot. Oct 06 23:55:43 Jaffa, go to bed Oct 06 23:55:46 crashanddie__: ditto Oct 06 23:55:50 I am Oct 06 23:55:55 Ditto :) Oct 06 23:55:56 ditto too. Oct 06 23:56:00 just calling you to join me, darling Oct 06 23:56:11 guess no one knows Oct 06 23:56:37 anyway, I'm looking forward to this summit Oct 06 23:56:43 Tadthebuilder, no, it's not. Oct 06 23:56:48 kk Oct 06 23:56:50 thanks Oct 06 23:57:00 my only real motivation is to see if GeneralAntilles really has a big fat beard at age 21, or if he's just a good photoshopist Oct 06 23:57:25 crashanddie__, disappointment awaits. Oct 06 23:57:31 Fucked by the State Department. Oct 06 23:57:32 Not going. Oct 06 23:57:37 what the fuck? Oct 06 23:57:43 That's what I said. Oct 06 23:57:48 why? Oct 06 23:58:05 Governmental incompetance. Oct 06 23:58:06 "1-3 weeks expedited service with two-way overnight" is apparently nothing of the sort. Oct 06 23:58:13 More like 7 weeks and no overnight. Oct 06 23:58:16 Shipped today. :\ Oct 06 23:58:32 GeneralAntilles: I assume you can't claim back travel costs from them? Oct 06 23:58:35 GeneralAntilles: demand a refund? Oct 06 23:58:39 nokia paid Oct 06 23:58:42 ah Oct 06 23:58:46 ^ Oct 06 23:58:58 They already offered me a refund on the $14.95 for overnight. :roll: Oct 06 23:59:01 for the Passport? Oct 06 23:59:06 oh Oct 06 23:59:11 Did they give you any excuses as to why it took so long? Oct 06 23:59:11 GeneralAntilles, nice Oct 06 23:59:18 Expedited service is apparently not a guarantee. Oct 06 23:59:22 it never is Oct 06 23:59:23 SpeedEvil, no. Oct 06 23:59:25 GeneralAntilles: take it and sue for damages? :p Oct 06 23:59:35 by offering you the refund, they admit they messed up Oct 06 23:59:41 SpeedEvil, the national call center is completely disconnected from the processing centers. Oct 06 23:59:50 SpeedEvil, they all operate as essentially independent entities. Oct 07 00:00:04 is annointedly a word? Oct 07 00:00:19 If they had shipped it overnight like I had paid for then I might've been able to get it held at the post office tomorrow. Oct 07 00:00:22 Tadthebuilder: yes Oct 07 00:00:27 But, of course not. Oct 07 00:00:37 and all of the sarcastic call center people were ever so helpful. Oct 07 00:00:47 GeneralAntilles, that majorly sucks Oct 07 00:00:53 Indeed Oct 07 00:01:05 GeneralAntilles, did you call AA/whomever takes care of your flight, to see if you can't postpone it a day or two? Oct 07 00:01:09 I was mostly OK with it this morning but I'm getting more depressed by the hour whenever I think about it. Oct 07 00:01:27 crashanddie__, wouldn't matter, passport wont be here until Monday. Oct 07 00:01:38 ridiculous Oct 07 00:01:55 * javispedro watches that someone added "and a IDE" to the SDK definition in Wikipedia a few months before the first iPhone era. :D Oct 07 00:02:02 Sad part is, my mother and sister got their passports a week and a half ago. Oct 07 00:02:11 Sent in the same time I did mine and with standard service. Oct 07 00:02:23 Good thing they have their passports with nowhere to go! Oct 07 00:02:33 GeneralAntilles, how long is your passport valid for? Oct 07 00:02:38 10 years Oct 07 00:02:42 that should of gone to the summit Oct 07 00:02:46 they* Oct 07 00:03:08 GeneralAntilles, I guess, on a positive sarcastic note, you'll have it ready for next time Oct 07 00:03:14 GeneralAntilles: Wear a wig and pretend to be your sister. Oct 07 00:03:25 he would have to shave Oct 07 00:03:28 For added comedic effect, don't shave the beard. Oct 07 00:03:30 crashanddie__, that's exactly what I said to Quim! ;) Oct 07 00:03:41 * SpeedEvil passes GeneralAntilles two melons. Oct 07 00:03:50 SpeedEvil, is that a compliment to his sister? Oct 07 00:04:43 We need a table of N900s connected to video chat with all of the people who couldn't go. Oct 07 00:04:58 So if you want to talk to somebody just walk over to the appropriate tablet. ;) Oct 07 00:05:02 lol. Oct 07 00:05:04 quote from when it's finished setting up: "we're going to need a bigger table" Oct 07 00:05:25 GeneralAntilles: I don't think they have time to ship the N900s Oct 07 00:05:34 unless you mean getting it to work wtih N810s Oct 07 00:05:42 oh, btw, completely unrelated: I apparently have a broken pinky Oct 07 00:05:52 crashanddie__: How did you manage to do that? Oct 07 00:05:57 luke-jr_, there's a Maemo Experience center at the Summit. Oct 07 00:06:00 no idea Oct 07 00:06:02 Plus: "Last but not least: your questions about Qt development and the N900 developer device program will be answered this Friday in the Maemo Summit." Oct 07 00:06:16 crashanddie__, I told you you shouldn't put that there. Oct 07 00:06:22 sigh. right where I can't listen to them! Oct 07 00:07:00 zerojay, I suspect I did it while sleepwalking, it's the only explanation I have... It was just sore for the past few days, went to the doc this morning and he said "Son, you're walking around with a broken finger" (which sounds a lot worse than "it would appear your pinky is broken mate") Oct 07 00:07:34 crashanddie__: Ouch. How long until it heals? A few weeks? Oct 07 00:07:35 I mean, I can still type and everything with it Oct 07 00:07:38 GeneralAntilles: http://www.flickr.com/photos/zerojay/3988085249/ Oct 07 00:07:51 Nice Oct 07 00:08:06 zerojay, dunno, it just hurts a bit, no cast or anything Oct 07 00:08:36 My kid did something like that and he had to have his pinky stuck to the finger next to it for 3 weeks. Oct 07 00:08:47 ring finger Oct 07 00:08:52 Yeah, that's the one. Oct 07 00:08:56 Hehe Oct 07 00:09:07 how cool, your kid and I have the same hand setup Oct 07 00:09:12 WE'RE LIKE HAND TWINS Oct 07 00:09:15 lol Oct 07 00:09:18 Fucking creeper. Oct 07 00:09:20 GeneralAntilles: I meant, for the people who can't make it to use Oct 07 00:09:36 luke-jr_, ah, yeah, that. Oct 07 00:09:38 what will the Summit N900s be calling with? :p Oct 07 00:09:39 GeneralAntilles, we're dick twins, and you admitted that, who's the creeper now? Oct 07 00:09:42 calling to* Oct 07 00:10:14 Hey, this isn't about me. :P Oct 07 00:10:35 that would be some super hero league... Dick twin twin powers with hand twins: Join us next week for the ultimate super hero wank Oct 07 00:10:37 :) Oct 07 00:10:40 its getting common to either take a broken finger to the summit or get it broken there I see. Oct 07 00:10:49 and with that being said, it's definitely time for me to go to bed, bye all Oct 07 00:11:01 crashanddie__: Later. Oct 07 00:11:03 Later Oct 07 00:11:12 cy Oct 07 00:11:38 javispedro, I thought you were going to bed. Oct 07 00:11:43 yeah. Oct 07 00:11:50 actually, I need to do some late night work first. Oct 07 00:11:55 * javispedro needs to stop trolling on IRC. Oct 07 00:11:56 Yeah, yeah. Oct 07 00:13:22 GeneralAntilles: ur mom Oct 07 00:14:16 ok I just forgot what I was supposed to do. damn discussions. Oct 07 00:14:46 Obviously it was making a source package template for me. Oct 07 00:15:15 a source template is a few minutes job, the web app is the costly one :) Oct 07 00:16:56 Then what are you in here running your mouth for? :P Oct 07 00:19:28 wasting everybody's time! :) it's my contribution to the community. Oct 07 00:31:05 lol, the fremantle build queue has 8 packages today. Oct 07 00:31:24 any word why the SDK is extremely slow... Oct 07 00:31:30 slow on what? Oct 07 00:31:43 everything? Oct 07 00:31:51 do you have compiz? Oct 07 00:31:54 nope Oct 07 00:32:02 out of things to test :P Oct 07 00:32:03 its been slow since the betas, the transitions, any movements Oct 07 00:32:15 programs, SDL applications Oct 07 00:32:15 you have hw accelerated 3D in host? Oct 07 00:32:17 yes Oct 07 00:32:24 The betas didn't have transitions. Oct 07 00:32:29 beta 2 did. Oct 07 00:32:31 Firebird, intel card ? Oct 07 00:32:39 no, nvidia in SLI Oct 07 00:32:51 beta 1 also has Oct 07 00:33:08 rocks here in my nvidia ;) Oct 07 00:33:23 rocks here too if I disable compiz. Oct 07 00:33:30 :o google loads as mobile.google Oct 07 00:33:36 well, slower than diablo's. Oct 07 00:33:40 Firebird: that's the bookmark. Oct 07 00:33:53 I typed google.com and it did load the defult version. Oct 07 00:34:00 javispedro, rocks here with compiz ;) Oct 07 00:34:05 ah Oct 07 00:34:44 well, finished. going to bed now for real. Oct 07 00:34:48 gnite Oct 07 00:35:17 me too, gnite folks, willing to meet some of you in AMS ;) Oct 07 01:32:59 * microlith spies a hold on his account for the full price of an N900 Oct 07 01:55:01 * Tadthebuilder is back Oct 07 01:55:12 * GeneralAntilles is front. Oct 07 01:58:00 * Tadthebuilder cannot figure out how to save and exit in vim on n800 Oct 07 01:58:47 Press the back key Oct 07 01:58:49 :wq Oct 07 01:58:51 Back is escape Oct 07 01:59:48 i found this site very helpfull when begun use vim http://www.tuxfiles.org/linuxhelp/vimcheat.html Oct 07 02:00:12 will back save the document? Oct 07 02:00:28 that's what the :wq is for Oct 07 02:00:37 (thanks for the cheat sheet, that is awesome Oct 07 02:00:39 ah okay Oct 07 02:00:54 * microlith ponders how well gvim would work on maemo Oct 07 02:01:15 thanks Oct 07 02:01:19 that has been keeping me up Oct 07 02:01:21 I think I can sleep now Oct 07 02:01:23 :) Oct 07 02:01:26 :D Oct 07 02:01:49 night all Oct 07 02:03:29 Bleh, Fennec isn't optified. Oct 07 02:10:05 Alright, what the hell: "gtk-update-icon-cache: Failed to write hash table" Oct 07 02:29:13 GeneralAntilles: I need to file a bug about installing to /opt Oct 07 02:29:21 is that what you mean by optified? Oct 07 02:29:58 mfinkle, right. Oct 07 02:32:16 we'll get that fixed Oct 07 02:32:39 GeneralAntilles: was that "gtk-update-icon-cache: Failed to write hash table" from Fennec too? Oct 07 02:39:12 mfinkle, yeah, running it from the console works fine. Oct 07 02:39:16 Just fails with dpkg Oct 07 02:39:44 hmm, I thought we fixed that Oct 07 02:39:53 I'll check the bug and reopen if needed Oct 07 02:44:58 GeneralAntilles: the bug I'm thinking of was for something else Oct 07 02:45:13 we try to update the cache here http://mxr.mozilla.org/mobile-browser/source/installer/debian/fennec.postinst.in#15 Oct 07 02:45:22 GeneralAntilles: N810 or N900? **** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Oct 07 02:59:57 2009