**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Oct 13 02:59:56 2009
Oct 13 03:00:38 <falmeida> luke-jr: Well, I consider it a platform. All platforms need porting. It still is a small computer anyway
Oct 13 03:01:04 <falmeida> luke-jr: With emacs ported, I don't even need much else lol!
Oct 13 03:01:24 <luke-jr> falmeida: general purpose OS shouldn't need porting
Oct 13 03:01:32 <|R> ;)
Oct 13 03:01:53 <falmeida> luke-jr: You need porting from win32 to linux, both are general purpose OS
Oct 13 03:01:54 <luke-jr> just packaging
Oct 13 03:02:07 <luke-jr> falmeida: Win32 is an exception to the rule because Microsoft can't support standards properly
Oct 13 03:02:40 <luke-jr> but even then, if you properly write a Qt app in Windows, it will build fine on Linux-based OS
Oct 13 03:03:15 <luke-jr> I write apps for Win32 all the time, but I write them 100% on Linux, including building the EXE and installer
Oct 13 03:03:54 <luke-jr> the difference between outputting an EXE and outputting an ELF bin is merely qmake spec
Oct 13 03:03:59 <falmeida> luke-jr: If you use a portable layer, then ok. But you do need that. Besides, Qt doesn't have the same look&feel
Oct 13 03:04:15 <luke-jr> Qt has a native look/feel on any platform
Oct 13 03:04:29 <falmeida> It doesn't look that native to me :P
Oct 13 03:04:35 <luke-jr> "portable layer" would be standards. you could write a C app too, but C doesn't support GUI
Oct 13 03:04:49 <luke-jr> falmeida: what OS?
Oct 13 03:05:18 <falmeida> win32 (XP common controls 6 or earlier)
Oct 13 03:05:21 <luke-jr> Qt4 supports Windows, OS X, GTK, Symbian, WinCE, and I think a few others
Oct 13 03:05:23 <luke-jr> ...
Oct 13 03:05:40 <luke-jr> well, I can't say I've used XP more than a week after it was released
Oct 13 03:05:40 <falmeida> Symbian seems quite alpha too
Oct 13 03:05:58 <luke-jr> nor at all since I learned Qt
Oct 13 03:06:12 <luke-jr> so I guess who knows :)
Oct 13 03:06:20 <luke-jr> it looks the same as other Win32 apps in WINE
Oct 13 03:06:51 <falmeida> I have my own GUI library for qt, win32 and porting to hildon and gtk
Oct 13 03:07:40 <luke-jr> >_<
Oct 13 03:08:15 <falmeida> unfortunately most look&feel can't really be abstract away with widgets
Oct 13 03:16:43 <GAN900> zerojay, actually, Qt is official now.
Oct 13 03:16:57 <GAN900> and themeing should be transparent.
Oct 13 03:34:52 <philosopher> are they planning to get a dev version of the n900
Oct 13 03:35:01 <philosopher> or sould i get the beagleboard ?
Oct 13 03:40:15 <jennyfast2> Anyone in here use ePassporte?
Oct 13 03:44:09 <jennyfast2> No one uses ePassporte?
Oct 13 03:48:11 <GeneralAntilles> philosopher?
Oct 13 03:48:46 <philosopher> ?
Oct 13 03:48:59 <philosopher> GeneralAntilles:  ?
Oct 13 03:56:17 <johnx> philosopher, you mean like a developer program?
Oct 13 03:56:17 <johnx> no one outside Nokia has heard anything
Oct 13 03:56:19 <johnx> and no one inside Nokia is talking ;)
Oct 13 03:56:49 <philosopher> i mean what is the prefered platform to start develloping on meamo ?
Oct 13 03:58:22 <johnx> for maemo5? I guess the beagleboard. though it seems like actual product will be shipping in a matter of weeks
Oct 13 03:58:22 <jennyfast2> Does stuff that's compatible with the N800 work for the N900?
Oct 13 03:58:35 <philosopher> ok
Oct 13 03:59:16 <johnx> jennyfast2, at a source level: yes (with some small tweaks if any). at a binary level: maybe
Oct 13 03:59:35 <jennyfast2> So I can run any program, but I may have to go into terminal to run it?
Oct 13 04:00:10 <johnx> that's exactly not what I meant :)
Oct 13 04:00:17 <jennyfast2> Uh oh....
Oct 13 04:00:22 <jennyfast2> I'm not very good with linux.
Oct 13 04:01:53 <lopz> gst.ElementNotFoundError: jpegenc
Oct 13 04:01:54 <johnx> I'm just trying to set your expectations low, so that in the vast majority of cases when someone does the (very small amount of effort) to make things work you'll be pleasantly surprised
Oct 13 04:01:56 <lopz> any idea?
Oct 13 04:02:17 <jennyfast2> johnx - lol OK
Oct 13 04:02:31 <jennyfast2> Is it worth it to upgrade from the n800 to the n810?
Oct 13 04:03:10 <cleary> jennyfast2: I've got both, but only used them fairly lightly
Oct 13 04:03:17 <johnx> if you want the keyboard and better screen: yes
Oct 13 04:03:23 <cleary> I like tactile keyboards, the n810 has it
Oct 13 04:03:30 <jennyfast2> cleary - looking to sell???
Oct 13 04:03:38 <cleary> jennyfast2: they're not mine to sell
Oct 13 04:03:43 <jennyfast2> oh
Oct 13 04:03:44 <jennyfast2> OK
Oct 13 04:03:46 <cleary> -> work
Oct 13 04:03:50 <jennyfast2> Gotcha
Oct 13 04:04:03 <jennyfast2> If anyone has a n800 or n810 they want to sell then let me know :)
Oct 13 04:04:06 <johnx> the downside is ending up with the mini-sd slot instead of two full-size sd slots
Oct 13 04:04:06 <johnx> jennyfast2, though how about this: what apps are you worried won't run on the n900?
Oct 13 04:04:18 <jennyfast2> johnx - Anki
Oct 13 04:04:35 <philosopher> jennyfast2:  now why would you like to bye an n800 ?
Oct 13 04:04:39 <johnx> ah, the flashcards thing
Oct 13 04:04:42 <jennyfast2> Yes
Oct 13 04:12:28 <johnx> jennyfast2, my gut feeling is that anki is one of the apps that will just work on the maemo5 (n900) without any effort. So just a question of waiting for it to show up or asking the person who put it together for maemo4 to make it happen
Oct 13 04:14:40 <microlith> oh that's cool
Oct 13 04:27:39 <johnx> gah. 500+ items in my RSS reader
Oct 13 04:27:55 <johnx> at least work didn't burn down while I was away
Oct 13 04:44:09 <GeneralAntilles> Holy crap, it's my birthday. <_<
Oct 13 04:44:18 <GeneralAntilles> I can't believe Talk reminded me. . .
Oct 13 04:44:27 <RST38bis> Oh really?
Oct 13 04:44:37 * RST38bis congratulates General on another year lost =)
Oct 13 04:44:53 <GeneralAntilles> The slow march towards death continues onward.
Oct 13 04:45:41 <Proteous> IT'S A TRAP!
Oct 13 04:45:50 <Proteous> sorry, had to be said
Oct 13 04:49:10 <jennyfast2> Can you run debian or fedora on a n800 and get everything to work, even the camera?
Oct 13 04:50:03 <Proteous> the site to site transporter even works if you can get Mr. Scott to fix it from time to time
Oct 13 04:55:30 <cmug> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHSZfhY25Jc&feature=youtube_gdata nice
Oct 13 04:56:17 <jennyfast2> Anyone run Fedora on their Nokia?
Oct 13 04:56:43 <microlith> augh the flicker
Oct 13 04:57:01 <Proteous> jennyfast2: according to the wiki there is not support for the camera
Oct 13 04:57:07 <Proteous> http://www.internettablettalk.com/wiki/index.php?title=Debian
Oct 13 04:57:51 <jennyfast2> Yeah I saw that :(
Oct 13 04:57:53 <jennyfast2> But thanks though
Oct 13 05:06:39 <RST38bis> Who is working on Transmission for Maemo?
Oct 13 05:11:28 <zerojay> I think its qwerty.
Oct 13 05:11:35 <zerojay> Faheem Pervez.
Oct 13 05:15:02 <RST38bis> Not fiferboy?
Oct 13 05:15:25 <RST38bis> 'cause I wanted to ask the maintainer to make some adjustments
Oct 13 05:15:28 * GeneralAntilles sighs.
Oct 13 05:15:39 <RST38bis> It literally brings N900 to the edge of meltdown
Oct 13 05:15:51 <GeneralAntilles> It's qwerty12
Oct 13 05:16:00 <GeneralAntilles> RST38bis, he's looking into the "lock everything up" issue.
Oct 13 05:16:05 <GeneralAntilles> I'm sure he'd appreciate some input.
Oct 13 05:16:20 <RST38bis> Oh this is how he calls it :)
Oct 13 05:16:33 <zerojay> I just decided to drop the amount of seeds I'll accept down to 20 from 60.
Oct 13 05:16:54 <RST38bis> I think it is as simple as doing a usleep() every now and then
Oct 13 05:16:54 <GeneralAntilles> On that note, can we make sure we're getting as many of the new people with N900s as possible to test stuff in Extras?
Oct 13 05:17:09 <GeneralAntilles> http://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3279
Oct 13 05:17:16 <GeneralAntilles> I don't know what "basically" means, but. . . .
Oct 13 05:17:34 * GeneralAntilles kinda feels like Nokia is moving the goal posts.
Oct 13 05:17:34 <RST38bis> We cannot, unfortunately. This is what I meant when I said that the current conditions for Extas admission are too strict
Oct 13 05:18:01 <GeneralAntilles> Why can't we?
Oct 13 05:18:02 <RST38bis> Quim just posted on t.m.o that he does not want ordinary guys with n900s use Extras-testing
Oct 13 05:18:15 <GeneralAntilles> Go to http://maemo.org/packages and test.
Oct 13 05:18:42 <RST38bis> I have separate problems with the stuff at that URL
Oct 13 05:19:04 <RST38bis> The interface has to be fixed so that it is no so hellishly tedious
Oct 13 05:19:34 <RST38bis> But the bigger problem is here: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=32676
Oct 13 05:26:36 <Stskeeps> morn
Oct 13 05:28:45 <RST38bis> Mourning, Stskeeps
Oct 13 05:29:59 <Stskeeps> GeneralAntilles: happy birthday
Oct 13 05:30:15 <GeneralAntilles> Thanks. ;)
Oct 13 05:30:19 <GeneralAntilles> The meaningless 22.
Oct 13 05:30:24 * GeneralAntilles feels like an old man.
Oct 13 05:31:49 <Stskeeps> meh :P 25 here
Oct 13 05:32:00 <GeneralAntilles> You can rent a car at least!
Oct 13 05:32:09 <Stskeeps> not without a license
Oct 13 05:32:45 <GeneralAntilles> Oh, right, getting a drivers license over there requires selling your first born.
Oct 13 05:32:56 <Stskeeps> GeneralAntilles: re app manager placement.. see why we need community variants and a os the community controls? :P
Oct 13 05:32:59 <RST38bis> 11 more years until crucifixion
Oct 13 05:33:52 <GeneralAntilles> We just give them to everybody and let the road wars slim down the numbers. ;)
Oct 13 05:33:57 <jaska> o, happy bday ga :p
Oct 13 05:34:10 <GeneralAntilles> Stskeeps, no, this is why we need to beat Nokia managers about the head and shoulders with blunt objects until they see it our way.
Oct 13 05:34:15 <GeneralAntilles> jaska, thanks! :)
Oct 13 05:34:28 <GeneralAntilles> A freaking hyperlink in the _APPLICATIONS_ menu
Oct 13 05:34:31 * GeneralAntilles mutters.
Oct 13 05:34:32 <jaska> oddly enough mines tomorrow :)
Oct 13 05:34:48 <GeneralAntilles> jaska, lot of people seem to have it around this time.
Oct 13 05:34:55 <GeneralAntilles> Weird
Oct 13 05:35:00 <jaska> yea, b-man's was a couple days ago
Oct 13 05:35:09 <GeneralAntilles> qwerty12, too.
Oct 13 05:35:12 <jaska> o.O
Oct 13 05:36:41 <RST38bis> Gentlemen, fighting Ovi store is a lost battle.
Oct 13 05:36:58 <RST38bis> So, just sit tight and wait until it withers and dies on its own
Oct 13 05:37:28 <RST38bis> Well, maybe suggest to Nokia to swap App Manage with some other first-tier icon
Oct 13 05:38:18 * GeneralAntilles still favors the blunt objects.
Oct 13 05:38:34 <RST38bis> You had your chance and you missed it
Oct 13 05:38:42 * RST38bis on the other hand, has got the Modest manager. Twice.
Oct 13 05:38:48 <GeneralAntilles> Haha
Oct 13 05:39:52 <Stskeeps> let us move ovi maps to second layer
Oct 13 05:40:14 <Stskeeps> it should be kept out of the publics eye until they fix it.
Oct 13 05:40:28 <RST38bis> If they ever do
Oct 13 05:40:41 <Stskeeps> or just fork maemo mapper
Oct 13 05:40:50 <GeneralAntilles> I can't believe they screwed up Ovi Maps so horribly.
Oct 13 05:40:53 <GeneralAntilles> I mean, really?
Oct 13 05:41:01 <RST38bis> Some really pretty things at http://www.n900wallpapers.com/
Oct 13 05:41:02 <jaska> whatd they do?
Oct 13 05:41:05 <GeneralAntilles> They couldn't just take what works reasonably well on S60 and move it to Maemo?
Oct 13 05:41:14 <GeneralAntilles> jaska, they mutilated it with a meat grinder.
Oct 13 05:41:17 <RST38bis> General: What is surprising there?
Oct 13 05:41:23 <GeneralAntilles> It's a study in how not to make software.
Oct 13 05:41:30 <GeneralAntilles> RST38bis, always the optimist. ;)
Oct 13 05:41:37 <RST38bis> You have got a team of people who have never done anything for the tablets and do not care
Oct 13 05:42:00 <RST38bis> Anyways, among the bugs I carpet bombed bugzilla with, there is a bunch of Maps bugs
Oct 13 05:42:06 <RST38bis> Go, vote, comment
Oct 13 05:42:25 <GeneralAntilles> RST38bis, is there an Ovi Maps component?
Oct 13 05:42:29 <RST38bis> Yeah
Oct 13 05:42:30 <GeneralAntilles> zerojay, ping?
Oct 13 05:42:32 <RST38bis> Nokia Maps
Oct 13 05:43:15 <GeneralAntilles> Where did we decide we're hiding background images?
Oct 13 05:43:29 <RST38bis> General: Bugs 5332,5333,5336,5337
Oct 13 05:46:53 <zerojay> GeneralAntilles: yo.
Oct 13 05:47:02 <zerojay> Sorry... was playing snes with wiicontrol.
Oct 13 05:47:05 <GeneralAntilles> zerojay, where are we hiding the backgrounds?
Oct 13 05:47:08 <GeneralAntilles> lol
Oct 13 05:47:09 <zerojay> And the stuttering makes it unplayable.
Oct 13 05:47:12 <vandenoever> how can i take a screenshot in the N900? esp of the 'window manager'?
Oct 13 05:47:23 <GeneralAntilles> ctrl-shift-p?
Oct 13 05:47:33 <GeneralAntilles> Or the statusbar cpu applet is also an option.
Oct 13 05:47:35 <jaska> lol, the ovi maps program is even less useful than the n810 wayfinder thingy?
Oct 13 05:47:39 <zerojay> GeneralAntilles: I put the backgrounds in /opt/maemo-backgrounds/[set name]/
Oct 13 05:47:49 <zerojay> GeneralAntilles: And the .desktop files in /usr/share/backgrounds/
Oct 13 05:48:06 <vandenoever> GeneralAntilles: perfect!
Oct 13 05:48:25 <zerojay> The SNES emulator is so stuttery that trying to fly in Super Mario 3 is impossible. :/
Oct 13 05:48:31 <GeneralAntilles> Thanks
Oct 13 05:50:32 <RST38bis> zerojay: Controls stutter or gameplay stutter?
Oct 13 05:50:39 <zerojay> Both.
Oct 13 05:50:48 <RST38bis> zerojay <-- can hardly be pleased (yes, I have read the comments on downloads)
Oct 13 05:51:01 <zerojay> When frames aren't drawn to the screen, input is ignored.
Oct 13 05:51:16 <zerojay> I haven't a clue to what you're refering to.
Oct 13 05:51:47 <RST38bis> zerojay: Ok. start by setting a fixed frameskip of 3
Oct 13 05:51:59 <RST38bis> Do not use BT controllers, they lag
Oct 13 05:52:14 <zerojay> Yeah, I figured there was some lag anyways.
Oct 13 05:52:15 <RST38bis> See if you have anything running in the background
Oct 13 05:52:24 <RST38bis> If you are, kill it
Oct 13 05:52:52 <RST38bis> Aside from that, I have no idea what you are talking about: DrNokSnes works pretty well for me
Oct 13 05:53:18 <RST38bis> For anything smoother you will have to visit a fleamarket and get a real SNES
Oct 13 05:54:27 <zerojay> Perhaps the flying problem is caused by BT lag then.
Oct 13 05:56:37 <zerojay> What framerates are you seeing?
Oct 13 05:58:38 <RST38bis> I am skipping 2 out of 3
Oct 13 05:59:06 <RST38bis> Skipping more will make gameplay jerky. Skipping less will make it slower. Autoskeep often leads to what you call "stuttering".
Oct 13 05:59:37 * RST38bis out to work
Oct 13 06:06:24 <Corsac> grmpf
Oct 13 06:06:47 <wazd> heya all
Oct 13 06:07:15 <Stskeeps> morning wazd
Oct 13 06:09:05 <timeless_mbp> yes
Oct 13 06:09:08 <timeless_mbp> morning
Oct 13 06:10:46 <GeneralAntilles> Hrm, Eero needs help with the descriptions for the crash reporter.
Oct 13 06:12:00 <vandenoever> can i just put an installfile anywhere? i put one on an apache but n900 browser just shows it as a textfile
Oct 13 06:12:31 <Stskeeps> you need a certain mimetype i think
Oct 13 06:14:40 <vandenoever> Stskeeps: maemo server sends text/html as mimetype
Oct 13 06:16:59 <timeless_mbp> GeneralAntilles: the crash reporter ui needs to get an update for maemo5
Oct 13 06:17:12 <timeless_mbp> and keep in mind that it probably doesn't ship in the final box
Oct 13 06:17:30 <timeless_mbp> it'll probably be in my translation pack, which of course, makes things much more fun
Oct 13 06:17:35 * timeless_mbp hates debian packaging
Oct 13 06:19:18 <GeneralAntilles> What's the proper term for desktop widgets in Maemo 5?
Oct 13 06:19:44 <timeless_mbp> um, dunno, they're probably just widgets
Oct 13 06:19:46 <GeneralAntilles> Widget or desktop widget?
Oct 13 06:19:57 <timeless_mbp> if you tap the desktop and hit the menu area
Oct 13 06:20:04 <timeless_mbp> you'll get a menu w/ a chance to add one
Oct 13 06:20:27 <vandenoever> using 'text/html' for the $package.install file does not help
Oct 13 06:21:04 <timeless_mbp> msgid "home_me_select_widgets"
Oct 13 06:21:04 <timeless_mbp> msgstr "Add widget"
Oct 13 06:21:18 <timeless_mbp> vandenoever: yeah well, the browser will helpfully render that ;-)
Oct 13 06:21:57 <Stskeeps> vandenoever:
Oct 13 06:21:58 <Stskeeps> Files with the extension ".install" are
Oct 13 06:21:58 <Stskeeps> recognized to have the mime type "application/x-install-instructions".
Oct 13 06:23:05 <GeneralAntilles> We should probably try to clean up the version strings for Extras.
Oct 13 06:24:46 <vandenoever> Stskeeps: thanks, that opens the installer, now it says 'cannot install qtup, package not compatible'
Oct 13 06:25:05 <Macer> yawn
Oct 13 06:25:08 <Macer> i hate laundry
Oct 13 06:25:36 <Stskeeps> vandenoever: means it couldn't satisfy dependancies or your package isnt in user/
Oct 13 06:25:52 <vandenoever> i think it means, i forgot Package.gz, will add that
Oct 13 06:26:31 <vandenoever> Stskeeps: it should be in dists/fremantle/user ?
Oct 13 06:27:15 <GeneralAntilles> Hrm, Mauku doesn't like Qaiku.
Oct 13 06:29:33 <vandenoever> here's the install file: http://ktown.kde.org/~vandenoever/repo/install/
Oct 13 06:29:50 <vandenoever> here file: http://ktown.kde.org/~vandenoever/repo/ actually
Oct 13 06:30:22 * GeneralAntilles hits zerojay.
Oct 13 06:30:24 <timeless_mbp> vandenoever: tap the app's menu
Oct 13 06:30:27 <timeless_mbp> select 'log'
Oct 13 06:30:31 <GeneralAntilles> Promote the Mauku desktop widget, really? :P
Oct 13 06:30:46 <vandenoever> catalogue 'user' not found
Oct 13 06:31:43 <timeless_mbp> your repo is 'main' not 'user'
Oct 13 06:31:59 <timeless_mbp> err fremantle?
Oct 13 06:32:00 * timeless_mbp frowns
Oct 13 06:32:06 * timeless_mbp can never remember how to parse those things
Oct 13 06:32:50 <timeless_mbp> http://ktown.kde.org/~vandenoever/repo/dists/fremantle/user/binary-armel/
Oct 13 06:33:24 <timeless_mbp> so i think components is 'user'
Oct 13 06:33:27 <vandenoever> timeless_mbp: i changed say 'components = user' now
Oct 13 06:33:54 <timeless_mbp> as for catalogues, i think it's probably 'apps'
Oct 13 06:33:56 <timeless_mbp> ask mvo :)
Oct 13 06:34:25 <vandenoever> from maemo.org it is 'extras'
Oct 13 06:37:03 * timeless_mbp ponders
Oct 13 06:37:06 <timeless_mbp> what the heck?
Oct 13 06:37:11 <timeless_mbp> does tmobile use WCDMA?
Oct 13 06:37:17 <timeless_mbp> http://quezi.com/10114
Oct 13 06:37:24 <timeless_mbp> WCDMA frequencies 	900/1700/2100 MHz (Europe, Asia, T-Mobile US)
Oct 13 06:38:00 <Ceron^> n900 in stores yet?
Oct 13 06:38:07 <timeless_mbp> will you ask every day?
Oct 13 06:38:28 <Ceron^> not sure yet
Oct 13 06:38:38 <wazd> http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/omweather/0.24.5/ <- vote!
Oct 13 06:40:45 <vandenoever> i want to blog about a package, could some one test it? http://ktown.kde.org/~vandenoever/repo/dists/fremantle/user/binary-armel/
Oct 13 06:40:51 <GeneralAntilles> wazd, still lingering UI issues.
Oct 13 06:40:56 <vandenoever> it is a 3d object that listens to the accelerometers
Oct 13 06:41:28 <GeneralAntilles> vandenoever, you should send it to the autobuilder and Extras.
Oct 13 06:41:53 <vandenoever> GeneralAntilles: it's bit small for that, just some funny app
Oct 13 06:42:40 <GeneralAntilles> vandenoever, doesn't matter, send it to Extras-devel and just leave it there.
Oct 13 06:42:45 <GeneralAntilles> Better than more 3rd-party repos. ;)
Oct 13 06:42:59 <vandenoever> ok, i'll have a go
Oct 13 06:43:59 <GeneralAntilles> wazd, the over/under widget style also doesn't fit vertically.
Oct 13 06:44:20 <GeneralAntilles> Since the size that Hildon thinks the widget is and the size it actually is don't seem to match up.
Oct 13 06:44:41 <wazd> GeneralAntilles: I haven't seen OMWeather under Fremantle so I don't understand what does it mean :)
Oct 13 06:44:50 <wazd> GeneralAntilles: better report Vlad
Oct 13 06:46:51 <Macer> awesome. new episode of castle
Oct 13 06:46:54 <Macer> castle is awesome
Oct 13 06:46:55 <GeneralAntilles> wazd, see: http://www.flickr.com/photos/generalantilles/4007120791/
Oct 13 06:47:20 <Macer> this damn xfce4 desktop that is ont he touchbook seriously needs a pager :)
Oct 13 06:47:27 <Macer> i need multiple screens damnit
Oct 13 06:47:36 <Macer> if my crappy g1 can do it in android then so should this
Oct 13 06:48:13 <Macer> the android market cracks me up.. every time a video player comes out people leave comments like "Will this play flash????????"
Oct 13 06:48:13 <Stskeeps> fremantle desktop on touchbook could be nice
Oct 13 06:48:20 <Macer> "1 star.. doesn't play flash!!"
Oct 13 06:48:22 <Macer> haha
Oct 13 06:48:24 <Macer> it's a riot
Oct 13 06:48:35 <Macer> Stskeeps: yeah.. too bad i don't know how to instal it
Oct 13 06:48:47 <Macer> it uses some u-boot setup that i haven't quite bothered to learn yt
Oct 13 06:48:48 <GeneralAntilles> Hopefully the Beagle project gets updated soon.
Oct 13 06:48:48 <Macer> yet
Oct 13 06:49:04 <Macer> GeneralAntilles: that is what the touchbook is. a beagleboard in a laptop :)
Oct 13 06:49:06 <wazd> GeneralAntilles: well, that's a feature I guess, ask unknown designer how that happened :D
Oct 13 06:49:10 <Macer> with a touchscreen
Oct 13 06:49:19 <Macer> and a huge battery
Oct 13 06:49:29 <Macer> which realistically lasts for like 7 hours in use
Oct 13 06:49:40 <Macer> probablyt because of underdeveloped kernel power management
Oct 13 06:50:13 <GeneralAntilles> How big is the battery?
Oct 13 06:50:14 <wazd> any kind people to help me with theme deb btw?
Oct 13 06:50:58 <Stskeeps> wazd: if mail me the template.png and what settings to use i can probably get it going
Oct 13 06:51:16 <wazd> Stskeeps: cool!
Oct 13 06:53:23 <wazd> Stskeeps: catch with gmail :)
Oct 13 06:55:06 <wazd> Stskeeps: some key shots like vkb, phone and some others would be super awesome :)
Oct 13 06:56:05 <Ceron^> timeless_mbp: il stop asking when its released :\
Oct 13 06:56:26 <Stskeeps> wazd: trying to build
Oct 13 06:57:08 <wazd> timeless_mbp: any updates on icons size btw?
Oct 13 06:57:27 <timeless_mbp> wazd: sorry, i really don't know, maybe GeneralAntilles  or Jaffa  or Stskeeps  know?
Oct 13 06:57:37 <GeneralAntilles> wazd, icon size?
Oct 13 06:57:39 <timeless_mbp> i'm poking google wave for a few mins and trying to read email
Oct 13 06:59:51 <wazd> GeneralAntilles: HAM icon
Oct 13 07:00:01 <GeneralAntilles> 48x48, no?
Oct 13 07:00:43 <timeless_mbp> GeneralAntilles: also the icon size for things in control panel :)
Oct 13 07:00:45 <GeneralAntilles> wazd, hrm, want to try beveling the wind direction arrows a little bit more?
Oct 13 07:02:27 <wazd> GeneralAntilles: I want t replace this whole thing honestly :D
Oct 13 07:02:45 <Stskeeps> wazd: .deb sent back to you
Oct 13 07:03:22 <wazd> Stskeeps: cool!
Oct 13 07:03:29 <wazd> Stskeeps: everything works?)
Oct 13 07:03:52 <Stskeeps> wazd: well the build did.. i cannot test rightnow as i don't have an updated flash image
Oct 13 07:04:03 <Stskeeps> and i don't want to risk my work ability today :P
Oct 13 07:06:18 <GeneralAntilles> Ah, whore.
Oct 13 07:06:30 <GeneralAntilles> OmniWeb crashed with 3 unsubmitted bugs. <_<
Oct 13 07:06:50 <Stskeeps> heh
Oct 13 07:07:00 <Stskeeps> dear god, frost on the windows..
Oct 13 07:07:28 <frals> yey its snowing here \o/
Oct 13 07:07:29 <frals> the snow flakes are kinda tiny and melt as soon as they hit the ground, but still
Oct 13 07:07:31 <wazd> Stskeeps: well, thanks!
Oct 13 07:07:47 <Stskeeps> wazd: did you do any changes to the template since the first rst sent me?
Oct 13 07:08:06 <wazd> Stskeeps: yep
Oct 13 07:08:21 <Stskeeps> ok
Oct 13 07:08:27 <Stskeeps> then we need to change the mer version too i guess :)
Oct 13 07:11:23 <wazd> GeneralAntilles: wat to test fresh theme? :)
Oct 13 07:11:36 <GeneralAntilles> Hit me.
Oct 13 07:11:51 <wazd> GeneralAntilles: e-mail?)
Oct 13 07:12:40 <GeneralAntilles> rabelg5 at gmail.com
Oct 13 07:12:51 <GeneralAntilles> wazd, http://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5363
Oct 13 07:12:51 <jennyfast2> What OS do you guys have installed on your Nokia?
Oct 13 07:13:00 <GeneralAntilles> Maemo 4 and Maemo 5.
Oct 13 07:13:09 <GeneralAntilles> Depending on the Nokia in question. ;)
Oct 13 07:13:17 <Stskeeps> morning johnx
Oct 13 07:13:33 <johnx> mornin'
Oct 13 07:13:43 <timeless_mbp> GeneralAntilles: so are all the icons 48x48 in Maemo 5? :)
Oct 13 07:13:47 <qwerty12_N810> GeneralAntilles: Happy birthday! :)
Oct 13 07:13:51 * johnx sets mode +zombie
Oct 13 07:14:00 <GeneralAntilles> timeless_mbp, not the statusbar ones?
Oct 13 07:14:05 <GeneralAntilles> qwerty12_N810, thanks!
Oct 13 07:14:08 <timeless_mbp> GeneralAntilles: ok :)
Oct 13 07:14:09 <wazd> GeneralAntilles: oh!
Oct 13 07:14:16 <timeless_mbp> but both HAM and normal launcher icons?
Oct 13 07:14:19 <Xisdibik> GeneralAntilles: I want your nokia device with maemo 5 ;)
Oct 13 07:14:20 <wazd> GeneralAntilles: happy birthday too then! :D
Oct 13 07:14:22 <GeneralAntilles> Yeah
Oct 13 07:14:25 <Stskeeps> johnx: still ill
Oct 13 07:14:28 <GeneralAntilles> Xisdibik, cold dead hands!
Oct 13 07:14:31 <timeless_mbp> happy birthday GeneralAntilles
Oct 13 07:14:36 <johnx> Stskeeps, feeling better...just drained
Oct 13 07:14:37 <Xisdibik> and apparently happy birthday GeneralAntilles
Oct 13 07:14:40 <johnx> what about you?
Oct 13 07:14:47 <GeneralAntilles> Hehe, thanks everybody. :)
Oct 13 07:14:52 <wazd> qwerty12_N810: you're the only man that follows tmo reminders I guess :D
Oct 13 07:14:54 <GeneralAntilles> johnx, less sick now?
Oct 13 07:14:54 <Stskeeps> johnx: meh, coughing a bit but nothing bad
Oct 13 07:15:08 * johnx faxes GeneralAntilles a cake
Oct 13 07:15:14 <GeneralAntilles> color fax!
Oct 13 07:15:22 <johnx> GeneralAntilles, well, less sick in a physical sense ...
Oct 13 07:15:47 <GeneralAntilles> johnx, did the Nokians poison your mind?
Oct 13 07:16:12 <johnx> nah, just made sure I had lots to drink O_o;
Oct 13 07:16:19 <johnx> (and rain to walk home in)
Oct 13 07:16:25 <GeneralAntilles> lol
Oct 13 07:16:41 <johnx> yup, heard it here first: Nokia engineered weather in Amsterdam
Oct 13 07:17:09 * GeneralAntilles loves Flickr sharing.
Oct 13 07:17:21 <Macer> GeneralAntilles: both of them combined is 16ah
Oct 13 07:17:49 <GeneralAntilles> Macer, gawd, that thing will run forever on Maemo.
Oct 13 07:18:22 <Macer> lol. i guess if the kernel would run with proper power management
Oct 13 07:18:35 <Macer> the touchbook os is worse than mer :)
Oct 13 07:19:11 <Macer> like.. random blanking of the screen.. misconfigured python network management scripts.. all types of beta type probelsm.. i sure hope it gets better soon
Oct 13 07:19:19 <Macer> like.. at the very least a battery monitor would be nice heh
Oct 13 07:19:21 <GeneralAntilles> wazd, startup animation is h264 avi, apparently.
Oct 13 07:20:06 <Stskeeps> Macer: what does lshal | grep battery say?
Oct 13 07:21:21 <GeneralAntilles> Hrm, OK, time to mock something cool up in C4D
Oct 13 07:21:33 <Macer> Stskeeps: a lot
Oct 13 07:21:39 <Macer> what's another pasting site other than pastebin
Oct 13 07:21:47 <Macer> pastebin turned gay as hell.. it has a ton of popups now
Oct 13 07:21:50 <Stskeeps> pastebin.ca?
Oct 13 07:21:51 <wazd> GeneralAntilles: oh :(
Oct 13 07:22:32 <GeneralAntilles> wazd, yeah, qwerty12 is going to start shipping porn clip startup screens to Extras now. :(
Oct 13 07:23:13 <Ceron^> any news on USB OTG
Oct 13 07:23:25 <qwerty12_N810> Look, I told you GeneralAntilles that I do not want videos of you in my Gmail inbox
Oct 13 07:23:26 <mvo> "son, what are you doing there in your room?"  "Nothing, just rebooting my tablet..."
Oct 13 07:23:31 <RST38h> General: Just out of pure masochism, I will try pushing an app into Ovi store (they say it will contian
Oct 13 07:23:41 <RST38h> free apps first)
Oct 13 07:23:43 <Macer> http://pastebin.ca/1617421
Oct 13 07:23:47 <Macer> there you go Stskeeps
Oct 13 07:24:02 <Stskeeps> morning mvo :)
Oct 13 07:24:09 <RST38h> (shit, it was the buffer)
Oct 13 07:24:48 <mvo> Stskeeps, morning!
Oct 13 07:25:01 <aSIMULAtor> hwhere is dr nok snes?
Oct 13 07:25:05 <aSIMULAtor> i mean in the repositories
Oct 13 07:25:07 <Stskeeps> Macer: looks fairly sane to get a battery applet on
Oct 13 07:25:08 <aSIMULAtor> i can't seem to find it anymore
Oct 13 07:25:23 <Macer> Stskeeps: oh i'm sure
Oct 13 07:25:31 <Ceron^> i get so depressed reading Maemo Talk forums only bad news
Oct 13 07:25:36 <Macer> i'm watching the NG special on hitler's stealth fighter
Oct 13 07:25:38 <Ceron^> no usb otg, no digital compass
Oct 13 07:25:40 <johnx> 16Ah? O_o;
Oct 13 07:25:40 <johnx> like, a couple car batteries?
Oct 13 07:25:45 <Macer> the horton 229
Oct 13 07:25:55 <qwerty12_N810> Stskeeps: Make sure it's a Python one
Oct 13 07:26:02 <Macer> johnx: no. just 2 normal batteries
Oct 13 07:26:22 <Stskeeps> qwerty12_N810: i still wonder if status area allows python plugins
Oct 13 07:26:24 <RST38h> Tes test test
Oct 13 07:26:27 <glass> Macer: secret weapons of luftwaffe was a fine pc game
Oct 13 07:26:36 <Stskeeps> Macer: how do you install software on it btw?
Oct 13 07:26:37 <RST38h> glass,Macer,wazd,zap: Moo all
Oct 13 07:26:51 <Stskeeps> Macer: like, do you have serial access to it or something?
Oct 13 07:26:54 <Macer> Stskeeps: to install the os you write an image to it
Oct 13 07:26:57 <Macer> to an sd
Oct 13 07:27:12 <Macer> Stskeeps: it keeps its os on an sd
Oct 13 07:27:12 <Stskeeps> and it flashes it or boots everything from sd?
Oct 13 07:27:21 <Macer> boots from the sd i'm sure
Oct 13 07:27:35 <johnx> Ceron^, pretty sure usb otg is just a software issue (people: correct me if I'm wrong)
Oct 13 07:27:41 <qwerty12_N810> Stskeeps: Dunno, not really fussed about Python TBH :)
Oct 13 07:28:02 <Macer> Stskeeps: i'm pretty sure putting another os on it would be fairly easy but i just haven't figured out how to do it yet
Oct 13 07:28:06 <glass> moo
Oct 13 07:28:15 <Stskeeps> Macer: let me just look up some info on it..
Oct 13 07:28:17 <Macer> i guess however you would boot a beagleboard with a different os
Oct 13 07:28:24 <Macer> Stskeeps: so i can put mer on it? :)
Oct 13 07:28:25 <Macer> heh
Oct 13 07:28:35 <Macer> mer would probably run a lot better on it than this touchbook os crap
Oct 13 07:28:46 <Stskeeps> Macer: i'm pondering how to do a port easiest without having access to it physically
Oct 13 07:28:49 <Macer> with its xfce interface and horrible "tablet mode"
Oct 13 07:29:03 <johnx> Macer, should be able to use the beagleboard mer, but a somewhat modified version might be more friendly
Oct 13 07:29:13 <Macer> Stskeeps: haha.. if you want i'm sure i can give you ssh access to it.. but i'm not too sure if that would help you much
Oct 13 07:29:26 <johnx> Macer, you know fremantle desktop is open source, right? ;)
Oct 13 07:29:36 <Stskeeps> Macer: got any online documentation for it/
Oct 13 07:29:38 <Macer> johnx: yeah but i'm not hardcore enough to get it working on this
Oct 13 07:29:56 <Macer> Stskeeps: not really. only place i can think of are the forums on alwaysinnovating.com
Oct 13 07:30:04 <wazd> GeneralAntilles: so, how's it overall?
Oct 13 07:30:06 <Macer> under "support" on their site
Oct 13 07:30:24 <GeneralAntilles> wazd, 2 steps forward and a couple steps back, as usual.
Oct 13 07:30:34 <Macer> the nazi stealth fighter was made of wood haha
Oct 13 07:30:34 <GeneralAntilles> s/couple/one/
Oct 13 07:30:34 <infobot> GeneralAntilles meant: wazd, 2 steps forward and a one steps back, as usual.
Oct 13 07:31:05 <wazd> GeneralAntilles: can you give me some shots in return so I can finaly see it for myself :D
Oct 13 07:31:16 <GeneralAntilles> Oh, theme?
Oct 13 07:31:22 <wazd> GeneralAntilles: VKB, HAM< Phone and with something you don't like
Oct 13 07:31:29 <wazd> GeneralAntilles: yep :)
Oct 13 07:31:38 <GeneralAntilles> Didn't get the email.
Oct 13 07:31:39 <Stskeeps> IM view is a good one to check too
Oct 13 07:31:43 <wazd> GeneralAntilles: oh
Oct 13 07:31:57 <GeneralAntilles> Ah, wait.
Oct 13 07:31:59 <GeneralAntilles> Junk mail
Oct 13 07:32:06 <johnx> Macer, convince AI they should send some mer dev a touchbook
Oct 13 07:32:13 <GeneralAntilles> You got sorted in with all of the Cyrillic spam that I was getting about 6 months ago. :P
Oct 13 07:32:21 <Macer> johnx: haha
Oct 13 07:32:26 <crashanddie_> yoooooooooo
Oct 13 07:32:29 <crashanddie_> bitches!
Oct 13 07:32:35 <crashanddie_> whassup johnx !
Oct 13 07:32:37 <wazd> GeneralAntilles: crap :)
Oct 13 07:32:46 <Macer> i'm not that good of a minipulator
Oct 13 07:32:56 <Macer> they are backed up enough as it is
Oct 13 07:33:02 <Macer> it took me like... 5 months to get it :)
Oct 13 07:33:57 <Macer> all the people are screaming about not getting theirs.. it's anarchy
Oct 13 07:34:47 <Macer> i was watching a west wing episode where someone managed to shoot down a stealth fighter
Oct 13 07:34:50 <Macer> haha
Oct 13 07:35:00 <Macer> and everybody keeps asking "how did they even see it to shoot it down?"
Oct 13 07:35:15 <GAN900> wazd, get this installing, not sure if it's meaningful. http://pastebin.com/m7f04fe03
Oct 13 07:35:27 <Macer> ooo.. i found hd versions of the original star trek
Oct 13 07:35:30 <Macer> awesome
Oct 13 07:36:13 <RST38h> Anyone knows how to sense if the tablet is being locked via DBus?
Oct 13 07:36:14 <qwerty12_N810> GAN900: That's a Theme Maker problem; I had the same with another theme made with it
Oct 13 07:36:25 <RST38h> There should be a DBus message for that (and unlock too)
Oct 13 07:36:38 <qwerty12_N810> RST38h: Fire up dbus-monitor over SSH and watch?
Oct 13 07:36:48 <Macer> the nazis didn't know the british had radar when they first attacked
Oct 13 07:36:53 <Macer> how awesome
Oct 13 07:37:03 <Macer> i guess radar was a new thing back then :)
Oct 13 07:37:38 <GeneralAntilles> Hrm, weird, theme change didn't go so well.
Oct 13 07:37:43 <RST38h> qwerty: I really want the "official" way
Oct 13 07:37:46 <GeneralAntilles> Lot of stuff is out of alignment.
Oct 13 07:38:17 <Stskeeps> GeneralAntilles: reboot, usual problem
Oct 13 07:38:21 <RST38h> qwerty: Btw, tried Transmission. Works beautifully, bring the tablet to meltdown almost
Oct 13 07:38:53 <inte_> anything new on AlternateLineService support by the N900?
Oct 13 07:38:58 <inte_> Just curious...
Oct 13 07:39:06 <RST38h> qwerty: You may want to insert some usleep() statements here and there, or show me where to look for the main loop and I will try to think of something sensible
Oct 13 07:39:08 <Stskeeps> inte_: there's a talk thread on it
Oct 13 07:39:27 <qwerty12_N810> RST38h: Good luck with that. You *may* have some service names and the like hardcoded in the headers with the mce-dev package, but I don't think you're get any better than that
Oct 13 07:39:27 <Stskeeps> Macer: touchbook installation seems like fun.
Oct 13 07:39:43 <Macer> are you being sarcastic? :)
Oct 13 07:39:44 <inte_> Stskeeps you got a link?
Oct 13 07:39:48 <RST38h> hmmm...ok
Oct 13 07:39:53 <Stskeeps> inte_: talk.maemo.org search for alternative line service
Oct 13 07:39:54 <qwerty12_N810> RST38h: Yeah, I've shortened the time it locks up for, but it's still a problem
Oct 13 07:40:07 <Stskeeps> Macer: it uses a unionfs on ext3 over a squashfs
Oct 13 07:40:15 <RST38h> qwerty: It does not really lock up. The way it looks to me, it is making shitloads of system calls
Oct 13 07:40:24 <Macer> unionfs?
Oct 13 07:40:25 <Macer> wtf?
Oct 13 07:40:44 <GeneralAntilles> I'd lighten up the level selection widgets.
Oct 13 07:40:45 <GeneralAntilles> wazd
Oct 13 07:40:54 <RST38h> qwerty: If you simply point me to the source file (URL) which implements the main loop, I can try doing something about it
Oct 13 07:41:05 <inte_> Stskeeps ah i opened that one :-)
Oct 13 07:41:15 <Stskeeps> Macer: well, aufs
Oct 13 07:41:15 <Stskeeps> Macer: so it's always possible to revert to factory settings
Oct 13 07:41:26 <qwerty12_N810> RST38h: I'll have to look later, I'm not on a computer right now
Oct 13 07:41:49 <Macer> yeah
Oct 13 07:41:55 <Macer> by wiping the ext3 partition on the sd
Oct 13 07:42:03 <Macer> i suppose it automatically rewrites to it
Oct 13 07:42:18 <Stskeeps> yeah
Oct 13 07:42:26 <Meiz_n810> i wonder if the aufs makes the Touch Book os so vunerable for hard-reboots
Oct 13 07:42:46 <Macer> so does that mean you have to figure out how to access whatever it uses internally for the os?
Oct 13 07:42:47 <wazd> GeneralAntilles: level selection?
Oct 13 07:43:00 <GeneralAntilles> wazd, sliders and progressbars.
Oct 13 07:43:08 <inte_> is the n900 phone app open source?
Oct 13 07:43:10 <qwerty12_N810> Oh, BTW, any idea why the SDK repo is lacking source for so much stuff that comes on the N900?
Oct 13 07:43:20 <qwerty12_N810> Like powertop and hildon-welcome
Oct 13 07:43:27 <Stskeeps> hildon-welcome is in stage
Oct 13 07:43:30 <qwerty12_N810> I remember seeing hildon-welcome code somewhere...
Oct 13 07:43:43 <Stskeeps> Macer: nah.. i pretty much get how it is done, but it's annoying way to do it
Oct 13 07:43:54 <Macer> Stskeeps: heh
Oct 13 07:43:54 <wazd> GeneralAntilles: oh, ok
Oct 13 07:44:08 <Macer> then make me a mer intall for it :)
Oct 13 07:44:21 <Macer> or better yet.. maemo5 :-D
Oct 13 07:44:46 <Macer> that would kick ass.. might be able to find a compatible 3G modem for its internal usb port
Oct 13 07:45:10 <Macer> omfg
Oct 13 07:45:18 <wazd> GeneralAntilles: I think I'll post it on t.m.o. for public test
Oct 13 07:45:18 <Macer> the screen on this thing keeps blanking on its own
Oct 13 07:45:30 <wazd> GeneralAntilles: but I need some shots to showcase :)
Oct 13 07:45:31 <Macer> it is absolutely annoying
Oct 13 07:45:33 <GeneralAntilles> wazd, I'd also brighten up the button gradients and take the severity down by about a notch.
Oct 13 07:45:56 <timeless_mbp> wazd: so, did you make a 48x48 icon?
Oct 13 07:46:02 * timeless_mbp finished reading 1 mailbox
Oct 13 07:46:15 <Stskeeps> Macer: how long are you awake for?
Oct 13 07:46:18 <wazd> timeless_mbp: oh, so it's 48x48 :)
Oct 13 07:46:30 <timeless_mbp> wazd: i really don't know
Oct 13 07:46:36 <timeless_mbp> but if GeneralAntilles says so, then trust him :)
Oct 13 07:47:13 <RST38h> qwerty: Acknowledged. Let's get back to it tonight.
Oct 13 07:47:49 <wazd> timeless_mbp: http://i061.radikal.ru/0910/48/57d36d754978.png
Oct 13 07:47:58 <Macer> Stskeeps: i actually have to go to work soon... why?
Oct 13 07:47:59 <timeless_mbp> looks good :)
Oct 13 07:48:10 <timeless_mbp> it actually feels fairly close to the one we used before
Oct 13 07:48:12 <Stskeeps> Macer: i'll make you a ssquashfs image and you can try it later
Oct 13 07:48:15 <timeless_mbp> i bet it was the same one :)
Oct 13 07:48:26 <inte_> is the n900 phone app open source?
Oct 13 07:48:28 <Macer> Stskeeps: ok :) sounds good
Oct 13 07:48:31 <RST38h> wazd: is it for the "Call The Marines!" application? =)
Oct 13 07:48:33 <RST38h> inte: no
Oct 13 07:48:40 <GeneralAntilles> wazd, http://www.flickr.com/photos/generalantilles/
Oct 13 07:48:59 <wazd> RST38h: yep :)
Oct 13 07:49:45 * qwerty12_N810 laughs at the "2.5" in GeneralAntilles' screenshots
Oct 13 07:49:47 <Macer> have to go into the office at 6am .. i will be back pretty soon afterwards.. Stskeeps if you want i'll open up ssh on it and you can have all the fun you want with ti.. i have tow ork on getting my damn web server back up later though.. tech.rancorous.net has been down for like 3 weeks because i haven't had time to work on it
Oct 13 07:50:00 <timeless_mbp> qwerty12_N810: i had 2's
Oct 13 07:50:05 <GeneralAntilles> qwerty12_N810, Imma fly over there and kill you with a rusty spoon.
Oct 13 07:50:07 <Macer> i'm almost done getting it back up
Oct 13 07:50:08 <wazd> GeneralAntilles: are gradients screwed up the same way on the device? :(
Oct 13 07:50:20 <timeless_mbp> marina looks nice
Oct 13 07:50:23 <timeless_mbp> is it in extras?
Oct 13 07:50:27 <Macer> but i'm going to have to start from scratch.. which i guess is good i only had 10 articles on it :)
Oct 13 07:50:30 <GeneralAntilles> wazd, yeah, it renders in 16bit
Oct 13 07:50:31 <timeless_mbp> i'm not a fan of some of the art though
Oct 13 07:50:32 <Macer> bbl
Oct 13 07:50:48 <inte_> RST38h thx
Oct 13 07:50:49 <timeless_mbp> the icons are mostly old/blocky
Oct 13 07:50:50 <GeneralAntilles> wazd, overall, I'd say the theme is a little too dark.
Oct 13 07:50:50 <qwerty12_N810> GeneralAntilles: Have a look at what you will never get: http://qwerty12.qole.org/imgdump/Screenshot-20091005-070447.png
Oct 13 07:51:00 <timeless_mbp> http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2666/4007981934_1a8b0a478e_m.jpg
Oct 13 07:51:16 * GeneralAntilles didn't even get to go to the Summit to bitch about it.
Oct 13 07:51:35 <GeneralAntilles> timeless_mbp, those icons are way better than that godawful S60 garbage. :P
Oct 13 07:51:42 <inte_> RST38h so I will have to contact nokia to get them integrating ALS-support in the phone app I guess
Oct 13 07:51:49 <timeless_mbp> als?
Oct 13 07:51:54 <Xisdibik> qwerty12_N810: diaf, i want that :(
Oct 13 07:52:09 <RST38h> inte: Depends on what ALS support is
Oct 13 07:52:09 <GeneralAntilles> Be nice if changing the theme didn't also change the background.
Oct 13 07:52:13 <RST38h> inte: What is it?
Oct 13 07:53:01 <timeless_mbp> andre__:
Oct 13 07:53:01 <timeless_mbp> ------- You are receiving this mail because: -------
Oct 13 07:53:02 <timeless_mbp> You are the QA contact for the bug, or are watching the QA contact.
Oct 13 07:53:02 <timeless_mbp> You are the QA contact for the bug, or are watching the QA contact.
Oct 13 07:53:11 <timeless_mbp> --- does it really need to tell me twice?
Oct 13 07:53:21 <GeneralAntilles> Yes
Oct 13 07:53:24 <GeneralAntilles> Otherwise you might forget.
Oct 13 07:53:34 <inte_> RST38h Alternate Line Service: http://your.rogers.com/business/wireless/services/secondvoicelineservice.asp
Oct 13 07:54:38 <inte_> RST38h you only get it from certain providers, like Orange, A1, One, Eplus, Rogers... but not from all - this is why it is so less known
Oct 13 07:54:45 <RST38h> inte: This is something that has to be resolved between Nokia and Rogers
Oct 13 07:54:50 <inte_> RST38h but its a great service
Oct 13 07:55:03 <timeless_mbp> RST38h: so
Oct 13 07:55:06 <timeless_mbp> having translated the ui
Oct 13 07:55:06 <inte_> RST38h I'm with Eplus (Germany) but I have the service as well
Oct 13 07:55:12 <timeless_mbp> we'd need to have some more strings for it
Oct 13 07:55:14 <RST38h> inte: However great it is, I doubt you can add it yourself or make Maemo people add it for you
Oct 13 07:55:19 <timeless_mbp> we definitely don't support the outbound
Oct 13 07:55:22 <wazd> damn, I need to remake buttons again then :(
Oct 13 07:55:23 <inte_> RST38h I only think that the Rogers description is very nice
Oct 13 07:55:37 <timeless_mbp> yeah http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternate_line_service mostly sucks
Oct 13 07:55:48 <inte_> RST38h this is wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternate_line_service
Oct 13 07:55:56 <RST38h> inte: This is something that needs to get resolved at the baseband module level
Oct 13 07:56:22 <wazd> I don't get it
Oct 13 07:56:24 <wazd> http://images.dailymobile.se/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/maemo5-keyboard.jpg
Oct 13 07:56:31 <inte_> RST38h and this is the official specification: http://www.scribd.com/doc/14454041/T3000450
Oct 13 07:56:33 <wazd> gradients  are fine
Oct 13 07:56:48 <RST38h> inte: If the baseband chip supports it, then the next team would be core/kernel people at Maemo
Oct 13 07:57:04 <andre__> timeless_mbp, known and not important enough to take a look at currently
Oct 13 07:57:13 <timeless_mbp> ok
Oct 13 07:57:41 <wazd> GeneralAntilles: would you mind to make vkb shot?)
Oct 13 07:57:53 <inte_> RST38h ah cool. since all nokia symbian phones support als, and the baseband chipsets are probably the same, the core/kernel people should work on it!
Oct 13 07:58:04 <GeneralAntilles> wazd, was trying to but couldn't open the keyboard to hit ctrl-shift-p then got too lazy to do it through the applet. :P
Oct 13 07:58:41 <inte_> RST38h I guess they are working on the phone app anyways, in order to allow video calling. how do i contact these people?
Oct 13 07:58:46 <timeless_mbp> you can half open the last row
Oct 13 07:58:53 <timeless_mbp> enough to get ctrl and p but w/o losing the vkb
Oct 13 07:59:15 <RST38h> andre: I am going to change some bug summaries and change them back from enhancements to bugs
Oct 13 07:59:25 <timeless_mbp> inte_: the wiki page for attendees should have listed the marketing / sales people in attendance
Oct 13 07:59:27 <RST38h> andre: Hope you will not be offended too much
Oct 13 07:59:48 <timeless_mbp> RST38h: anything that's not part of the spec and requires feature work is an enhancement request
Oct 13 07:59:59 <timeless_mbp> changing them away from enhancement will cause serious animosity
Oct 13 08:00:06 <RST38h> it is different
Oct 13 08:00:10 <Ceron^> http://kuvaton.com/bshit/inadequate_warning_label.jpg
Oct 13 08:00:23 <Ceron^> is there software for the fm transmitter
Oct 13 08:00:35 <Ceron^> people say it works but i see no screenshots
Oct 13 08:00:37 <timeless_mbp> Ceron^: yes
Oct 13 08:00:41 <GeneralAntilles> It's built-in.
Oct 13 08:00:43 <RST38h> There are a few bugs that I erroneously started with a verb, which makes it possible to mark them as enhancements
Oct 13 08:00:51 <timeless_mbp> but the software is basically a control panel that lets you turn it on
Oct 13 08:01:02 <timeless_mbp> and then some portion of audio is routed out via the radio
Oct 13 08:01:15 <timeless_mbp> the ui lets you say on/off and frequency
Oct 13 08:01:23 <timeless_mbp> incredibly boring, except to a localizer
Oct 13 08:01:29 * timeless_mbp changed at least one of those strings
Oct 13 08:02:31 <Ceron^> GeneralAntilles: how come no screenshots or videos of fm-transmitter in use
Oct 13 08:02:42 <GeneralAntilles> Ceron^, because they're really boring.
Oct 13 08:02:51 <GeneralAntilles> It just works, basically.
Oct 13 08:03:24 <Ceron^> GeneralAntilles: it has a GUI ?
Oct 13 08:03:36 <Ceron^> you can stream any audio to the fm transmitter?
Oct 13 08:03:41 <Ceron^> even movies? :P
Oct 13 08:03:46 <GeneralAntilles> You just turn it on.
Oct 13 08:03:58 <GeneralAntilles> The GUI consists of exactly what timeless described.
Oct 13 08:04:21 <timeless_mbp> it only streams the audio
Oct 13 08:04:29 <timeless_mbp> video doesn't get broadcast via fm ....
Oct 13 08:04:32 <Ceron^> ofcourse :D
Oct 13 08:04:38 <Ceron^> but audio from the movies
Oct 13 08:04:42 <johnx> timeless, are you sure it isn't streaming the video to your radio?
Oct 13 08:04:47 <johnx> have you tested?
Oct 13 08:04:47 <Ceron^> rofl
Oct 13 08:04:59 <timeless_mbp> you're accusing my radio of being old and needing an upgrade?
Oct 13 08:05:13 <Ceron^> timeless_mbp: what about hands-free using the car radio as speakers
Oct 13 08:05:15 <Ceron^> does it work well
Oct 13 08:05:30 <timeless_mbp> i don't have a license, or a car, or a car radio
Oct 13 08:05:33 <timeless_mbp> or car radio speakers
Oct 13 08:05:35 <johnx> just making sure you've tested on a wide variety of video-radios
Oct 13 08:05:39 <Ceron^> you would use the phone as a microphone and car-radio as speakers
Oct 13 08:05:45 <johnx> though I think to stream video to one of those video-radios you need to use included cables ...
Oct 13 08:05:57 <Ceron^> johnx: stop trolling!
Oct 13 08:06:18 * johnx gremlins instead
Oct 13 08:06:23 <Proteous> if it's anything like the FM trasmiter in my n97 then it sucks unless you have your phone taped to the radio anttenna
Oct 13 08:07:02 <johnx> Proteous, probably has more to do with FCC/CE regulations than poor construction of the transmitter
Oct 13 08:07:06 <Lupu> Ceron^: I don't have a radio lying around, but when the FM-transmitter is enabled the device's internal speakers are silent
Oct 13 08:07:31 <GeneralAntilles> 10' works just fine with my shitty clock radio.
Oct 13 08:07:34 <Proteous> johnx: I've used extrnal fm trasmitters that worked much much better
Oct 13 08:07:38 <timeless_mbp> Proteous: is your n97 targeted for Europe
Oct 13 08:07:42 <Proteous> no
Oct 13 08:07:54 <timeless_mbp> someone explained that radio transmitters for the USA are allowed to be more powerful than equivalent European products
Oct 13 08:07:57 <timeless_mbp> yay CE
Oct 13 08:08:09 <Lupu> There's no UI for the FM transmitter while playing video, but if you enable it in the Music player at least the internal speakers are silent while playing video
Oct 13 08:08:10 <Proteous> interesting
Oct 13 08:08:18 <Lupu> which leads me to thinking it's broadcasting to FM..
Oct 13 08:08:26 <GeneralAntilles> wazd, http://www.flickr.com/photos/generalantilles/4007249481/
Oct 13 08:09:01 <Proteous> my n97 has funtionality in the music player to turn on the FM transimter but you can also use a seperate app to just turn it on and off when you want
Oct 13 08:09:16 <Proteous> and it routes all audio out to the transmitter
Oct 13 08:09:47 <timeless_mbp> Proteous: does it persist across power off?
Oct 13 08:10:01 <Proteous> hmm, I don't know, I don't usualy turn off my phone :)
Oct 13 08:10:10 <Proteous> I can see
Oct 13 08:10:18 <timeless_mbp> set an alarm :)
Oct 13 08:10:30 * GeneralAntilles chuckles at Proteous's N97.
Oct 13 08:10:30 <timeless_mbp> i want to know if it sends the alarm to your fm radio if your device is off :)
Oct 13 08:11:05 <johnx> timeless, actually that's a pretty cool idea :)
Oct 13 08:11:32 <GeneralAntilles> Leaving your radio on all night tuned to a non-existent station or setting an alarm on both?
Oct 13 08:11:39 <johnx> using my FM alarm clock's alarm along with my N900's music
Oct 13 08:11:40 <johnx> and the failure mode is terrifying static that will wake me up anyways
Oct 13 08:11:46 <GeneralAntilles> My wakeup time varies by day, unfortunately.
Oct 13 08:11:55 <johnx> GeneralAntilles, play music on the n900, set the radio alarm on the clock
Oct 13 08:11:57 <timeless_mbp> my wakeup time varies by sun
Oct 13 08:12:04 <timeless_mbp> what varies more is my getting out the door time
Oct 13 08:12:05 <GeneralAntilles> johnx, why involve the radio?
Oct 13 08:12:08 <johnx> in that case you want a phone alarm
Oct 13 08:12:13 <GeneralAntilles> johnx, N900's speakers blast great.
Oct 13 08:12:29 <wazd> GeneralAntilles: ta
Oct 13 08:12:30 <timeless_mbp> GeneralAntilles: fwiw, the n900's screen works to wake me up
Oct 13 08:12:40 <timeless_mbp> i've had my device on silent but calendar had alarms
Oct 13 08:12:41 <johnx> I have a soft spot for rube goldberg (sp?) style solutions
Oct 13 08:12:49 <GeneralAntilles> timeless_mbp, you tape it to your eyes?
Oct 13 08:12:51 <timeless_mbp> the alarm caused the screen to wake up, and that woke me
Oct 13 08:12:57 <johnx> timeless, sometimes...
Oct 13 08:12:59 <GeneralAntilles> johnx, don't we all. But still. :P
Oct 13 08:13:16 <Proteous> nope the FM transmitter doesn't stay on after power cycling my phone
Oct 13 08:14:17 <timeless_mbp> GeneralAntilles: does fm on persist for the n900?
Oct 13 08:14:19 <timeless_mbp> i suspect it does
Oct 13 08:14:37 <Proteous> probably not
Oct 13 08:14:43 <GeneralAntilles> timeless_mbp, I've just rebooted about a half-dozen times. :P
Oct 13 08:14:45 <Proteous> since it uses up battery quite fast
Oct 13 08:14:54 <GeneralAntilles> No, I'm not testing that. :D
Oct 13 08:14:54 <timeless_mbp> one more won't hurt :)
Oct 13 08:14:58 * wazd 's tired of fixing gradients :(
Oct 13 08:15:13 <GeneralAntilles> wazd, make a monochrome display theme!
Oct 13 08:15:32 <Stskeeps> wazd, afb said he had a svg version of template
Oct 13 08:15:33 * johnx tests
Oct 13 08:15:34 <johnx> GeneralAntilles, for ebook readers?
Oct 13 08:16:03 <GeneralAntilles> johnx, I want a theme that look like an old calculator.
Oct 13 08:16:04 <wazd> Stskeeps: and? :)
Oct 13 08:16:15 <Stskeeps> wazd, true, ps guy..
Oct 13 08:16:26 <johnx> and I want the ringtone from the newest star trek :>
Oct 13 08:16:41 <wazd> I'll try one dirty trick
Oct 13 08:18:05 <johnx> nope, fm transmitter is set to off on reboot
Oct 13 08:18:19 <johnx> probably to save people who forget it's on and "fix" the problem with a reboot
Oct 13 08:18:25 <Proteous> heh
Oct 13 08:18:49 <Lupu> How about a theme with some fingerprints 'preinstalled'? Perhaps that would help me spend less time trying to clean the screen.
Oct 13 08:18:55 <Proteous> it's the same reason all your other apps don't just start up when you reboot
Oct 13 08:19:54 <timeless_mbp> Lupu: heh
Oct 13 08:20:01 <timeless_mbp> Proteous: um
Oct 13 08:20:07 <timeless_mbp> most of our apps *do* start :)
Oct 13 08:20:17 <johnx> Proteous, yeah. reboot is much more of a first-round troubleshooting trick these days than something that people do for power reasons (or it's becoming that way at least)
Oct 13 08:21:14 <GeneralAntilles> Need some documentation on the hildon-welcome conf.
Oct 13 08:26:00 <sarower> I have a server program and i am trying to bind it to port 80
Oct 13 08:26:36 <crashanddie_> sarower, bit more information?
Oct 13 08:26:49 <sarower> But it is giving following error "Transport endpoint is not connected
Oct 13 08:26:50 <sarower> "
Oct 13 08:27:35 <sarower> crashanddie_:  When running the server program inside scratchbox it can not bind using port 80
Oct 13 08:27:44 <sarower> crashanddie_: Giving above error
Oct 13 08:27:47 <RST38h> Ok, I moved this bug: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5336 from enhancement to normal
Oct 13 08:29:03 <crashanddie_> is there socket connectivity in scratchbox?
Oct 13 08:29:06 <crashanddie_> can't remember
Oct 13 08:30:07 <sarower> yes
Oct 13 08:30:30 <sarower> crashanddie_: If i bind it to another port say 3024 it is ok
Oct 13 08:30:52 <sarower> crashanddie_: but binding to port below 1024 is problem
Oct 13 08:31:21 <Jaffa> Morning, all
Oct 13 08:31:42 <wazd> well, dirty tricks doesn't work for .pngs :)
Oct 13 08:31:51 <wazd> let's use some more advanced
Oct 13 08:31:57 <crashanddie_> sarower, are you root/fakeroot?
Oct 13 08:32:38 <RST38h> wazd: BTW, Maemo6 is supposed to go .svg
Oct 13 08:32:45 <sarower> crashanddie_: inside scratchbox in PC
Oct 13 08:33:02 <sarower> crashanddie_: So it is as normal user mode and it is appplet
Oct 13 08:33:36 <crashanddie_> sarower, sorry, I never use scratchbox
Oct 13 08:34:16 <crashanddie_> anyway, I need to get to work, talk later
Oct 13 08:34:17 <sarower> crashanddie_: Oh ok i am developing applet....
Oct 13 08:34:19 <crashanddie_> o/ Jaffa
Oct 13 08:34:23 <johnx> sarower, you're trying to bind to :80 as part of your applet?
Oct 13 08:34:42 <sarower> johnx: yes...
Oct 13 08:34:53 <Myrtti> question is, *why*
Oct 13 08:34:55 <sarower> johnx: right
Oct 13 08:35:12 <RST38h> moo Myrtti.
Oct 13 08:35:13 <johnx> you'll need root access to do that, and also it is very likely to conflict with other programs that might be "real" web servers
Oct 13 08:35:26 <Myrtti> baa RST38h
Oct 13 08:36:25 <sarower> johnx:  That could be.. but I need this cause another application connects to this port so i must listen to this port
Oct 13 08:36:33 <sarower> johnx:  So how i can ndo this?
Oct 13 08:36:45 <sarower> do*
Oct 13 08:37:02 <johnx> you need to run your program as root
Oct 13 08:37:28 <Myrtti> I wonder what he's up to
Oct 13 08:37:31 <johnx> and you'll need to be running it as root on the device
Oct 13 08:37:36 <johnx> but you app will also likely need to have some kind of code to make it conflict with anything that provides a web server
Oct 13 08:38:20 <johnx> I would *highly* suggest that you separate it out into a daemon process and an applet process
Oct 13 08:39:00 <RST38h> Myrtti: Asking a lot of questions, as always? =)
Oct 13 08:39:44 <sarower> johnx: Ok, But in the pc as root user i am using port 80. And first time it is working fine but second time immediately when i am trying to bind again it is producing the same error
Oct 13 08:40:10 <sarower> johnx: Why this error even i am root
Oct 13 08:40:11 <sarower> ?
Oct 13 08:40:12 <johnx> and also it will definitely need to elegantly handle the situation where something else is already bound to :80
Oct 13 08:40:39 <johnx> I assume you can't change the code of the other program, sarower?
Oct 13 08:40:50 <sarower> johnx: yes...
Oct 13 08:41:04 <sarower> johnx: You are right
Oct 13 08:41:08 <wazd> RST38h: ok, I'll wait until 2011 then :D
Oct 13 08:41:24 <RST38h> wazd: You said earlier that you hated SVG? =)
Oct 13 08:41:30 <johnx> if it works once then fails a second time, maybe the first instance is still hanging around somehow?
Oct 13 08:41:47 <andre__> RST38h, still bug 5336 remains an enhancement
Oct 13 08:41:56 <johnx> might want to try: netstat -tnap | grep :80
Oct 13 08:42:13 <sarower> johnx: Yes I think so.... but i can not find the reason...
Oct 13 08:42:16 <RST38h> andre: And Maps remain disfunctional wherever I need to travel. Thank you.
Oct 13 08:42:28 <andre__> i never disagreed with that.
Oct 13 08:42:51 <andre__> no "Thank you".
Oct 13 08:43:07 <RST38h> Well, anything that makes application disfunctional is a defect and needs to be fixed.
Oct 13 08:43:25 <andre__> your definition of disfunctional is VERY wide.
Oct 13 08:43:40 <andre__> maybe that also explains why you file no reports as enhancements ;-)
Oct 13 08:43:42 <RST38h> My definition of disfunctional is "Cannot make use of the application"
Oct 13 08:44:26 * RST38h does not file for enhancements because enhancements never get looked at
Oct 13 08:44:28 <andre__> don't get me wrong, you have a very good point. but it simply was never announced or planned by nokia to provide that, i think. hence by that definition it's an enhancement
Oct 13 08:44:49 <andre__> so you want me to correct your severity every time?
Oct 13 08:44:53 <RST38h> andre: Nokia provides offline map set downloading for its Maps application on Symbian phones
Oct 13 08:45:06 <GeneralAntilles> RST38h, bugs in bugzilla never get looked at by Nokia enhancement or not.
Oct 13 08:45:07 <andre__> aha. so why isn't that written in the bug report?
Oct 13 08:45:08 <GeneralAntilles> So who cares?
Oct 13 08:45:30 <RST38h> andre: Because I do not get exceedingly anal in my buug reports unless forced to.
Oct 13 08:45:33 <sarower> johnx: It is showing first something like: 127.0.0.1:80 127.0.0.1:80  CLOSE_WAIT
Oct 13 08:45:54 <GeneralAntilles> Oh, vote for this please: http://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5369
Oct 13 08:45:56 <sarower> johnx: Then like 127.0.0.1:80 127.0.0.1:80  TIME_WAIT
Oct 13 08:46:00 <johnx> yeah, looks like something is holding the port open
Oct 13 08:46:01 <andre__> RST38h, yeah. and that makes me waste a lot of time. be exact if you want your stuff to get fixed.
Oct 13 08:46:02 <RST38h> andre: but yes, in a Symbian version there is Map Downloader that lets you download maps before you travel
Oct 13 08:46:03 <crashanddie_> sarower, i take you've never written socket applications for linux?
Oct 13 08:46:19 <johnx> sarower, it should list the PID as well
Oct 13 08:46:24 <cvandonderen> where can I find docs about QMaemoInternetConnectivity? it gives me an error (with the Qt 4.6 alpha maemo version)
Oct 13 08:46:31 <andre__> RST38h, then please mention it. dude, it's way easier to convince people when having such arguments. really. it helps getting your reports fixed if you are exact...
Oct 13 08:46:31 <crashanddie_> johnx, no, not necessarily
Oct 13 08:47:02 <crashanddie_> sarower, add proper error handling to your application, and signal handling as well. Catch SIGTERM and make sure to close every socket in your app before giving up the ghost
Oct 13 08:47:06 <RST38h> andre: Ok, I will. Although back here at work, anything that does not let people use our product is a showstopping bug
Oct 13 08:47:43 <johnx> RST38h, if I "file a bug" that I can't use a core 2 duo because it won't run off 2 watts, how seriously will I be taken?
Oct 13 08:47:51 <sarower> johnx: No PID
Oct 13 08:47:52 <RST38h> andre: The only loophole is if you can prove that your user intends to do something unusual to the product
Oct 13 08:47:57 <andre__> RST38h, different definitions... i also have a different definition of such stuff when it comes to gnome instead of maemo...
Oct 13 08:48:19 <RST38h> andre: But this loophole can't be taken here, I am afraid
Oct 13 08:48:36 <RST38h> johnx: You will be directed to buy an Atom
Oct 13 08:48:38 <andre__> heh. yeah, looks harder :-/
Oct 13 08:48:46 <johnx> RST38h, try maemo mapper
Oct 13 08:48:53 <crashanddie_> let's put it another way: networking is a requirement for the maps application
Oct 13 08:48:55 * GeneralAntilles hands andre__ and RST38h 2x4s to fight this out with.
Oct 13 08:49:03 <RST38h> johnx: Not available for N900. Not a Nokia product.
Oct 13 08:49:11 <crashanddie_> it's like browser, you don't see people moaning browser doesn't work as soon as there is no connectivity, right?
Oct 13 08:49:16 <RST38h> johnx: I.e. it is like me suggesting you to switch to Arm ;)
Oct 13 08:49:39 <Corsac> crashanddie_: well, no
Oct 13 08:49:46 <Corsac> crashanddie_: you can browse local content
Oct 13 08:49:54 <Corsac> at least you should be able to
Oct 13 08:49:54 <sarower> johnx: Any way what does this means........? Is it meaning that the previous binding is not yet closed yet?
Oct 13 08:50:00 <RST38h> and some people do browse local content
Oct 13 08:50:01 <Corsac> crashanddie_: wether maps or html pages
Oct 13 08:50:03 <crashanddie_> sarower, yup
Oct 13 08:50:11 <andre__> maps IS based on browser afaik
Oct 13 08:50:14 <johnx> RST38h, heh...well I'd be terribly surprised to see even an atom-based board hit 2 watts max draw
Oct 13 08:50:15 <andre__> in fremantle
Oct 13 08:50:20 <sarower> crashanddie_: Thank you
Oct 13 08:50:26 <crashanddie_> anyway, maps is shit, who uses it anyway?
Oct 13 08:50:43 <johnx> crashanddie_, why wouldn't it show a PID? is it the busybox netstat?
Oct 13 08:50:45 <andre__> i agree that it could be in a way better state, yeah
Oct 13 08:50:53 <johnx> crashanddie_, not much choice for maemo5 yet ...
Oct 13 08:51:03 <tekojo> morning all
Oct 13 08:51:05 <crashanddie_> johnx, there is no process associated with it IIRC
Oct 13 08:51:10 <RST38h> johnx: I won't
Oct 13 08:51:22 <frals> *votes for maps working offline*
Oct 13 08:51:22 <Stskeeps> morning tekojo
Oct 13 08:51:24 <RST38h> johnx: As long as it is only the Atom
Oct 13 08:51:35 <andre__> frals, voting is highly welcome, really
Oct 13 08:51:43 <crashanddie_> johnx, the process is effectively dead, it's just an ancient thing to allow clients to disconnect/notice there's a problem before allowing anyone else to use the port
Oct 13 08:51:55 <Corsac> maemo mapper (or mapper) aren't ported yet?
Oct 13 08:51:57 <andre__> morning tekojo
Oct 13 08:51:59 <Corsac> or not maintained at all?
Oct 13 08:52:14 <frals> yeah, im voting whenever i see something good, like maps working offline :)
Oct 13 08:52:31 <crashanddie_> johnx, say you cause apache2 to crash, and then very quickly jump in and grab the 80 port, if the timing is right, you intercept a mouthful of posted data or whatever
Oct 13 08:52:31 <andre__> Corsac, haven't seen it yet for Fremantle, but would certainly be nice to have it
Oct 13 08:52:48 <Jaffa> It's a Fremantle Star, so it should be coming.
Oct 13 08:52:50 <Stskeeps> maemo mapper is ported but in a bad state last i checked
Oct 13 08:52:51 <johnx> sarower, can you paste the whole output of netstat -tnap somewhere?
Oct 13 08:53:12 <crashanddie_> anyway, off to work, have fun everyone
Oct 13 08:53:15 <tekojo> Corsac there was a blog post in italian telling that there is work going on for MaemoMapper on Maemo 5
Oct 13 08:53:19 <johnx> 'later crashanddie_
Oct 13 08:53:27 <Corsac> http://git.tal.org/cgi-bin/gitweb.cgi?p=mapper.git;a=summary that doesn't look very good :)
Oct 13 08:53:31 <johnx> the new map viewer for gnome might be reasonable
Oct 13 08:53:33 <crashanddie_> (just 2 hours late :-*)
Oct 13 08:53:40 <Stskeeps> Corsac: it's in garage
Oct 13 08:54:28 <Corsac> yeah but I don't see any code there: https://garage.maemo.org/projects/mapper/
Oct 13 08:54:36 <Corsac> (this is mapper, not maemo mapper)
Oct 13 08:56:46 <frals> anyone with a device (or without) who could help me with http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=344886#post344886 ? :) (MMS support research stuff)
Oct 13 08:57:23 * frals heads off for a while to do an heuristic evaluation
Oct 13 08:57:53 <RST38h> frals: Was discussed at Summit
Oct 13 08:58:18 <RST38h> frals: Basically, sending part can be done right now in user space by implementing a sharing plugin
Oct 13 08:58:38 <RST38h> frals: Receiving part requires kernel work (as you probably know)
Oct 13 08:58:48 <frals> cool
Oct 13 08:58:58 <RST38h> frals: Nokia will not implement half-the-MMS because it will be a support nightmare
Oct 13 08:59:30 <RST38h> frals: But if you wish to code a sharing plugin, help yourself, I can tell you whom to ask for documentation if there is something missing in the SDK
Oct 13 09:00:02 <frals> should be possible to do receving only over http thou, which should work without kernel work right?
Oct 13 09:00:23 <frals> thanks, ill take a look at the sharing stuff when i get home :)
Oct 13 09:00:34 <RST38h> receiving over http is useless
Oct 13 09:01:28 <RST38h> sending over http to an internet connected MMSC is somewhat useless though as long as you find a free-MMS-forwarding service
Oct 13 09:01:39 <RST38h> s/useless/useful/
Oct 13 09:01:39 <infobot> RST38h meant: sending over http to an internet connected MMSC is somewhat useful though as long as you find a free-MMS-forwarding service
Oct 13 09:02:28 <sarower> johnx: tcp             0                0 127.0.0.1:56164              127.0.0.1:80         CLOSE_WAIT
Oct 13 09:02:49 <johnx> and nothing on the line below it?
Oct 13 09:03:02 <sarower> johnx: tcp             0                0 127.0.0.1:80             127.0.0.1:56164         TIME_WAIT
Oct 13 09:03:22 <sarower> johnx:  nothing
Oct 13 09:03:27 <wazd> let's rock
Oct 13 09:03:29 <johnx> netstat wraps lines in an 80 column terminal
Oct 13 09:03:38 <wazd> Stskeeps: have time to make another .deb? :)
Oct 13 09:03:52 <Stskeeps> sure
Oct 13 09:03:55 <frals> RST38h: thanks for the input :) do you have time to post it in the topic or should I?
Oct 13 09:04:38 <RST38h> frals: Please do not post it verbatim
Oct 13 09:04:38 <johnx> sarower, I think crashanddie's advice is probably closest, that somehow you're not closing the port when the applet dies
Oct 13 09:04:56 <RST38h> frals: Also, it is all pretty useless information unless you are willing to code the actual plugin
Oct 13 09:05:30 <frals> i was just gonna add the sending part could be done via the sharing pluginsystem pretty much and that receving requires kernel work
Oct 13 09:05:36 <sarower> johnx: The thing is that it probably close the port after some time say 1/2 min
Oct 13 09:06:05 <RST38h> frals: If you want to add the sending part properly (i.e. to your proivder's MMSC) it also requires kernel work
Oct 13 09:06:06 <sarower> johnx: So when i am trying again very immediateky
Oct 13 09:06:11 <wazd> wow, new .png is huge
Oct 13 09:06:12 <johnx> don't know what to tell you...
Oct 13 09:06:19 <sarower> johnx: It is giving this error
Oct 13 09:07:10 <sarower> johnx: Cause if i try after some time sday 1/2 min it is again working fine
Oct 13 09:07:11 <frals> RST38h: oh, right, the sharing plugin would require a free MMS-forwarding service..
Oct 13 09:07:13 <sarower> for once
Oct 13 09:08:09 <johnx> sarower, sorry, but I'm off to sleep. make sure that your program is carefully closing sockets when it's killed
Oct 13 09:08:09 <johnx> good luck
Oct 13 09:08:11 <johnx> 'night all
Oct 13 09:08:47 <sarower> johnx: Ok thank you
Oct 13 09:08:51 <sarower> and good night
Oct 13 09:08:53 <Stskeeps> morning sopi
Oct 13 09:09:01 <sopi> good morning ;)
Oct 13 09:09:09 <andre__> RST38h, actually Map data should be cached so if you are in phone offline mode you should be able to use it if you have used the Maps app before. and that's a bug. maybe we can agree on that and we're both fine? :-)
Oct 13 09:09:11 <wazd> Stskeeps: I've sent you new .png if you don't mind :)
Oct 13 09:09:42 <Stskeeps> wazd: buildin'
Oct 13 09:09:50 <wazd> Stskeeps: awesone
Oct 13 09:10:14 <GeneralAntilles> Damn, what do I need to do to get XTerm to see a new ttf?
Oct 13 09:10:16 <wazd> Stskeeps: it's much heavier now though :(
Oct 13 09:10:42 <wazd> Stskeeps: dithering is a bad thing for .pngs
Oct 13 09:11:04 <wazd> Stskeeps: they are optimized for gradient rendering
Oct 13 09:11:06 <frals> regarding Map data: is it possible to preload it with eg. nokia maps loader? or was that not supported
Oct 13 09:11:07 <RST38h> andre: When I fly in from a different country, I do not have any cached data for the destination country
Oct 13 09:11:36 <RST38h> andre: So, technically, what you have written is not the situation described by the bug report
Oct 13 09:11:38 <andre__> RST38h, I'd assume that you have GPRS available at an airport
Oct 13 09:11:45 <RST38h> andre: I do not.
Oct 13 09:11:52 <wazd> RST38h: buy a paper map :)
Oct 13 09:11:56 <RST38h> andre: Do not assume that I have connectivity available.
Oct 13 09:12:25 <johnx> RST38h, if you file it as an enhancement request, I'll vote for it
Oct 13 09:12:28 <Jaffa> frals: There's a blog post I've found which makes it easy
Oct 13 09:12:30 <RST38h> andre: The bug report explicitely talks about Maps being unusable when there is no connectivity (GPRS included)
Oct 13 09:12:34 <Jaffa> You can just copy the maps over, no need for an app
Oct 13 09:12:44 <wazd> GeneralAntilles: ready for round two? :)
Oct 13 09:12:53 <GeneralAntilles> wazd, sure.
Oct 13 09:12:56 <andre__> RST38h, okay. that's simply not supported and not planned as far as I know.
Oct 13 09:12:56 <frals> Jaffa: ah, awesome - got a link?
Oct 13 09:12:58 <RST38h> johnx: I ultimately have no control on whether it is a defect or an enhancement
Oct 13 09:13:12 <RST38h> Jaffa: The original bug description said "Document way to copy maps offline"
Oct 13 09:13:12 <wazd> GeneralAntilles: gradients should look way better now
Oct 13 09:13:29 <RST38h> Jaffa: See, it is not supported and not planned.
Oct 13 09:13:59 <Jaffa> frals: Trying to find it
Oct 13 09:14:08 <frals> cheers
Oct 13 09:14:11 <RST38h> johnx: To me, not being able to use Maps in exact situations where I NEED Maps is a bug, really
Oct 13 09:14:33 <Jaffa> http://handphone-solution.blogspot.com/2009/07/direct-download-for-ovi-maps-30-without.html
Oct 13 09:14:38 <Jaffa> ^frals etc.
Oct 13 09:15:15 <andre__> Jaffa, interesting. Does that also work on the N900?
Oct 13 09:15:20 <qwerty12_N810> RST38h: Your energies would be better spent getting a real company, who actually knows what they're doing when it comes to navigation software, to port their map app to the N900
Oct 13 09:15:21 <johnx> RST38h, but it's outside their planned use-cases. Just like using an atom-based system on 2 watts is outside Intel's use case. Both situations which they'd probably like to support, but don't currently
Oct 13 09:15:32 <johnx> qwerty12_N810++
Oct 13 09:15:49 <RST38h> qwerty: I simply want the included software to work as advertised
Oct 13 09:16:00 <andre__> hmm. was that advertised?
Oct 13 09:16:07 <RST38h> johnx: 2Wt Atom system is not outside Intel's use case
Oct 13 09:16:17 <RST38h> johnx: Just  trust me on this :)
Oct 13 09:16:21 <qwerty12_N810> RST38h: If it's using the browser... C'mon, we both think the same way about browserd :)
Oct 13 09:16:47 <RST38h> Jaffa: Will this work on the tablet though?
Oct 13 09:17:20 <RST38h> johnx: And, unlike writing a document on how to download map sets, it is a hard physical problem
Oct 13 09:18:13 <johnx> RST38h, but the point remains that, it's an enhancement, rather than something they promised but didn't deliver
Oct 13 09:18:27 <andre__> basically Maps IS a webservice. hence you need web (data connection).
Oct 13 09:18:40 <Stskeeps> wazd: look in your inbox
Oct 13 09:18:49 <RST38h> johnx: Haven't they promised the map use? =)
Oct 13 09:19:12 * RST38h will actually try Jaffa's directions on the tablet
Oct 13 09:19:48 <Corsac> browser can't work in offline mode at all?
Oct 13 09:20:00 <Corsac> (though using midori or tear it'll work, I guess)
Oct 13 09:20:10 <wazd> Stskeeps: thanks a lot!
Oct 13 09:20:20 <wazd> GeneralAntilles: check your spam section :D
Oct 13 09:20:29 <johnx> RST38h, it can be used under certain circumstances. you could take them to court and try and get money back, but if you want them to fix bugs it's probably better to work within the system rather than ending up with the bugmaster resenting you :P
Oct 13 09:20:50 <wazd> GeneralAntilles: And enlarge your penis now for $9.99 btw :D
Oct 13 09:21:11 <Jaffa> RST38h: Yeah, should o
Oct 13 09:21:16 <qwerty12_N810> wazd: Stop being a tight-ass: It's his birthday, you pay for it :p
Oct 13 09:21:31 <Jaffa> What's the bug, I'll add a link to http://www.maemopeople.org/index.php/jaffa/2009/10/13/downloading_ovi_maps_without_a_network_c
Oct 13 09:21:33 <wazd> qwerty12_N810: oh! I almost forgot :)
Oct 13 09:21:36 <RST38h> johnx: Given that this will never be implemented if filed as enhancement, neither route looks fruitful
Oct 13 09:22:26 <RST38h> Jaffa: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5336
Oct 13 09:22:35 <johnx> RST38h, but the situation where the bugmaster doesn't automatically assume bugs filed by you are mis-catagorized might be more beneficial, if we look at this as a positive sum game
Oct 13 09:22:41 <andre__> RST38h, if you want to keep me away from work you could not only not set the priority correctly but also file it under wrong product ;-))
Oct 13 09:22:42 <RST38h> Ah, btw, GPS also seems not to work if there is no connectivity
Oct 13 09:23:02 <RST38h> andre: That is not my goal when filing bugs.
Oct 13 09:23:36 <johnx> RST38h, though I suggest engineering a situation where the maps lead programmer ends up being sent to a conference in a country where he doesn't have cell access :)
Oct 13 09:23:39 <andre__> i was ironic of course. but saying that enhancement will remain totally ignored is not true either :)
Oct 13 09:23:47 <frals> good thing im gonna be broke after getting my n900 so i wont have to worry going abroad with maps and get charged an arm and a leg for roaming ;)
Oct 13 09:23:54 <RST38h> johnx: AFAIK, the strategy is to change any bug that even remotely asks for something extra as an enhancement, so it does not really matter what YOU mark them with
Oct 13 09:23:58 <GeneralAntilles> wazd, much better.
Oct 13 09:24:08 <andre__> RST38h, that's not true
Oct 13 09:24:16 <andre__> bugs are bugs.
Oct 13 09:24:34 <andre__> but if stuff was never planned to be implemented it's an enhancement
Oct 13 09:24:41 <GeneralAntilles> andre__, wants to steal all of our pocket lint!
Oct 13 09:24:59 <RST38h> andre: Sorry I cannot believe that using maps without connectivity has never been planned
Oct 13 09:25:13 <wazd> GeneralAntilles: I think ubersharp screen makes things even better
Oct 13 09:25:29 <andre__> RST38h, it IS planned, by caching. that is a valid bug, i already wrote here
Oct 13 09:25:38 <RST38h> andre: Some other things I can believe, by stretching my imagination a little, but not this one
Oct 13 09:25:41 <Stskeeps> i thought there was preinstalled maps? :P
Oct 13 09:25:43 <wazd> Japan phones have 848x480 2.5" screens though :D
Oct 13 09:26:17 <RST38h> andre: Especially considering that Symbian phones HAVE this feature
Oct 13 09:26:22 <johnx> getting this hildonized/maemo-ized seems like the answer: http://www.novopia.com/
Oct 13 09:26:28 <qwerty12_N810> Stskeeps has a point. We've been recieving generic eMMC images, remember
Oct 13 09:26:31 <wazd> iPhone look like tetris near them
Oct 13 09:26:39 <Shapeshifter> GeneralAntilles: your bug has been demoted to an "enhancement"
Oct 13 09:26:56 <Shapeshifter> GeneralAntilles: :|
Oct 13 09:27:04 <johnx> GeneralAntilles, fixed in harmattan :D
Oct 13 09:27:12 * johnx is joking. don't kill me
Oct 13 09:27:15 <qwerty12_N810> Enhancement, my arse
Oct 13 09:27:30 <johnx> qwerty12_N810, "enhance your arse for $7.96!"
Oct 13 09:27:38 * GeneralAntilles just really hates Nokia.
Oct 13 09:27:51 <qwerty12_N810> johnx: Only if you pay
Oct 13 09:28:37 <andre__> RST38h, comparing to symbian does not really mean a lot in the context of a maemo bug report, i think. though of course it's still definitely helpful to mention it, to push devs a bit
Oct 13 09:29:11 <Corsac> well, the apps is called the same way
Oct 13 09:29:22 <Corsac> one could even assume it's the same one
Oct 13 09:29:22 <frals> well, to the average user they see  "Ovi Maps" and expects it to work the same way imo
Oct 13 09:29:29 <Corsac> definitely
Oct 13 09:29:58 * rmt_ notices that gmail is (now?) replacing links within emails to google redirects .. maybe time to setup my own webmail.. any suggestions?
Oct 13 09:30:01 <andre__> True. Well, I'm not here to defend Nokia. I'm more trying to explain how processes work (and they of course can be criticized)
Oct 13 09:30:19 * RST38h already got how processes work =)
Oct 13 09:30:32 <qwerty12_N810> andre__: Don't worry, we've already learnt how two-faced Nokia is
Oct 13 09:30:36 <wazd> GeneralAntilles: some new shots and I'll leave you alone :D
Oct 13 09:30:41 <frals> im just here so i wont have to do this heuristic evaluation im suppose to :p
Oct 13 09:31:42 <andre__> RST38h, I personally think that your point of view is a bit too negative. But I think most here have a certain level of frustration as we all faced some weird decisions in the past
Oct 13 09:31:44 <johnx> qwerty12_N810, I kind of want to photoshop that batman villain's head on to one of the Nokia guys who was at maemo summit :D
Oct 13 09:32:49 <qwerty12_N810> johnx: Since you're having doubts about doing it, I dare you :D
Oct 13 09:33:13 <johnx> thanks :)
Oct 13 09:33:22 <johnx> movie or comic?
Oct 13 09:33:31 <qwerty12_N810> Movie
Oct 13 09:33:35 <johnx> ugh
Oct 13 09:33:49 <qwerty12_N810> Maybe that way they can include it with the N900
Oct 13 09:33:53 <johnx> just did the GIS for that...
Oct 13 09:34:01 <RST38h> andre: You want positive viewpoint for a change, talk to General =)
Oct 13 09:34:20 <RST38h> Although I suspect he is slowly crossing to the dark side as well...
Oct 13 09:34:32 <Corsac> there's no dark side
Oct 13 09:34:37 <Corsac> matter of fact, it's all dark
Oct 13 09:34:50 <andre__> hehe
Oct 13 09:34:54 <RST38h> Corsac <-- has seen the light of truth =)
Oct 13 09:35:01 <RST38h> or blacklight of truth, anyway
Oct 13 09:35:12 <Corsac> backlight?
Oct 13 09:35:19 <RST38h> eh.
Oct 13 09:35:24 <Stskeeps> wb lcuk
Oct 13 09:35:25 <Myrtti> lcuk: ohai, hows things?
Oct 13 09:35:29 <tru> according to the place where I ordered a N900 it will ship on thursday. let's hope they are right :-)
Oct 13 09:35:41 <RST38h> did they tell which thirsday?
Oct 13 09:35:59 <johnx> backlight of truth?
Oct 13 09:36:08 <lcuk> hi Stskeeps, Myrtti \o
Oct 13 09:36:18 <lcuk> RST38h, johnx \o
Oct 13 09:36:20 <Corsac> which place is it?
Oct 13 09:36:58 * qwerty12_N810 meows at lcuk
Oct 13 09:37:02 <RST38h> heya lcuk
Oct 13 09:38:00 <wazd> lcuk: heya
Oct 13 09:38:26 <lcuk> hi wazd \o
Oct 13 09:38:44 * wazd just read Mer slides
Oct 13 09:38:53 <Stskeeps> giving up all hope? :P
Oct 13 09:38:58 <tallented_russia> oh
Oct 13 09:39:06 <Stskeeps> i didn't spell it with two l's did i? ;)
Oct 13 09:39:23 <Stskeeps> hehe
Oct 13 09:39:35 <talented_russian> Stskeeps: :P
Oct 13 09:39:57 <Corsac> are all the MS slides available somewhere?
Oct 13 09:40:03 <Corsac> (especially the security track)
Oct 13 09:40:35 <GeneralAntilles> talented_russian, http://www.flickr.com/photos/generalantilles/
Oct 13 09:40:45 * lcuk still hasnt got over the lack of bacon in amsterdam
Oct 13 09:40:57 <RST38h> Jaffa: I *think* this trick with the maps may work
Oct 13 09:41:05 <javispedro> security track... ohmy.
Oct 13 09:41:08 <lcuk> Corsac, the security slides are available, but you need a license to view them
Oct 13 09:41:11 <RST38h> Jaffa: And may even be automated with a really small Python program
Oct 13 09:41:17 <johnx> lcuk, you missed the bacon pancakes or bacon waffles or whatever they were?
Oct 13 09:41:36 <RST38h> Jaffa: Will tell more in a few moments
Oct 13 09:41:37 <lcuk> the quiche things?
Oct 13 09:41:43 <javispedro> i wish i had been there to facepalm at the mention of capacitive then suicide at the next slide (about drm)
Oct 13 09:41:50 <wazd> GeneralAntilles: awesome-o!
Oct 13 09:42:03 <RST38h> javispedro: You will have your chance next year =)
Oct 13 09:42:15 <qwerty12_N810> javispedro: And not to get an N900? :p
Oct 13 09:42:39 <wazd> GeneralAntilles: simple button failed though
Oct 13 09:42:43 <javispedro> that too, ok >:)
Oct 13 09:42:43 <Stskeeps> yeah, the n900 helped pretty well as a bribe
Oct 13 09:42:43 <Myrtti> mmmm quiche
Oct 13 09:42:50 <Corsac> lcuk: so I need an N900 first?
Oct 13 09:42:57 <Corsac> lcuk: or which kind of license is it?
Oct 13 09:43:04 <lcuk> and 2 pints of blood from your firstborn
Oct 13 09:43:07 * qwerty12_N810 yays at seeing Simple Brightness Applet
Oct 13 09:43:12 <GeneralAntilles> Capacitive at 800x480 and 3.5" will SUUUCK
Oct 13 09:43:14 * RST38h does not see what is the problem with capacitive screen option BTW
Oct 13 09:43:24 <Corsac> it's not yet born but I can give mine in advance
Oct 13 09:43:26 <lcuk> i dont see problem with the option either
Oct 13 09:43:29 <RST38h> They have got the precision problem more or less solved by now
Oct 13 09:43:33 <GeneralAntilles> RST38h, what if it isn't an option?
Oct 13 09:43:42 <RST38h> General: Still ok with me
Oct 13 09:43:52 <javispedro> i. want. stylus.
Oct 13 09:44:00 <RST38h> General: With a tiny screen like this, you are not gonna use it as a tablet anyway =( =)
Oct 13 09:44:04 <GeneralAntilles> I want to be able to sketch.
Oct 13 09:44:05 * lcuk does too
Oct 13 09:44:15 <johnx> javispedro, the DRM situation is only going to be lame for people who get the phone as part of a subsidized deal with a SIM lock
Oct 13 09:44:15 <johnx> lcuk, nah, it was a restaurant. I tried to tell you about it. was like a block from the hotel
Oct 13 09:44:28 <lcuk> o_O thats close
Oct 13 09:44:32 <RST38h> javispedro: There is a certain door at Nokia HQ tat you can stick your finger into, and make it into a stylus
Oct 13 09:44:36 <Corsac> johnx: which is the majority of people imho
Oct 13 09:44:36 <lcuk> should i fly back and try it ?!
Oct 13 09:44:41 <RST38h> javispedro: it will work on capacitive screens too
Oct 13 09:45:03 <johnx> Corsac, then the phone isn't really yours. so as of now Nokia can't be in that market at all
Oct 13 09:45:21 <Corsac> eh?
Oct 13 09:45:28 <Corsac> Nokia already is in that market
Oct 13 09:45:47 <lcuk> wazd Marina looks excellent!
Oct 13 09:45:53 <johnx> Corsac, name a SIM locked, maemo-based phone
Oct 13 09:45:59 <RST38h> General: You will probably be able to sketch with capacitive. Not like draw blueprints, but then it is not possible on such a small screen anyway
Oct 13 09:45:59 <Corsac> I don't know about other countries, but in France the vast majority of phones are subsidied
Oct 13 09:46:01 <wazd> lcuk: thx :)
Oct 13 09:46:09 <Corsac> johnx: oh, maemo based :)
Oct 13 09:46:10 <wazd> lcuk: lot's of small faults though
Oct 13 09:46:31 * lcuk nods
Oct 13 09:46:57 <johnx> Corsac, cause, I bet that you can't software unlock your Symbian SIM-locked subsidized phone, without some hacking
Oct 13 09:47:02 <lcuk> RST38h, liqflow type stuff works with capacitive
Oct 13 09:47:13 <lcuk> but not the kind of note taking and precision stylus work i do
Oct 13 09:48:10 <Corsac> johnx: I don't own a symbian phone so I can't really tell
Oct 13 09:48:21 <Corsac> johnx: but unlock is free after 6 months in France
Oct 13 09:48:33 <johnx> Corsac, then it'll be the same for a maemo based phone
Oct 13 09:48:37 <Corsac> definitely
Oct 13 09:49:00 <johnx> once it's not SIM-locked you never have to worry about any DRM-related software on your device
Oct 13 09:49:06 <qwerty12_N810> Corsac: Wow, congrats to the French for not actually surrendering on something
Oct 13 09:49:06 <Corsac> johnx: btw, I think the DRM stuff won't be a problem for the same majority of people which will buy the n900 subsidied
Oct 13 09:49:28 <GeneralAntilles> Supporting the locked-device users is going to be hell.
Oct 13 09:49:52 <javispedro> GeneralAntilles, why we'd need to do that?
Oct 13 09:49:59 <johnx> Corsac, I could see it being kind a bummer in some specific circumstances, but keep in mind their implementation is still at least a year out
Oct 13 09:50:04 <GeneralAntilles> javispedro, because they're going to come to us.
Oct 13 09:50:08 <javispedro> they won't be able to install extras apps either way.
Oct 13 09:50:20 <johnx> javispedro, LOLwut?
Oct 13 09:50:23 <javispedro> nor swap the kernel, nor modules, nor...
Oct 13 09:50:31 <Stskeeps> sigh.. so much misinformation
Oct 13 09:50:36 <johnx> not install extras apps?
Oct 13 09:50:38 <glass> eh.. the simlocked would also lock user installation of any debs?
Oct 13 09:50:38 <javispedro> wait and see :)
Oct 13 09:50:56 <johnx> javispedro, I talked to the guys implementing this. back up your claim
Oct 13 09:51:01 * qwerty12_N810 wouldn't be surprised if that was true
Oct 13 09:51:04 <johnx> glass, no
Oct 13 09:51:12 <Corsac> it might depend on the carriers, too
Oct 13 09:51:14 <glass> that would be even bigger shaft than symbian platsec. so can't see it really happening that way
Oct 13 09:51:22 <qwerty12_N810> I mean, Application Manager is already becoming a second-class citizen to the Ovi Store
Oct 13 09:51:32 <Corsac> I'm a bit wondering what will be the carrier power on the locking
Oct 13 09:51:38 <javispedro> this is just a foresee. don't want to create a rumour.
Oct 13 09:51:38 <GeneralAntilles> Ovi Store _hyperlink_
Oct 13 09:51:42 <Corsac> qwerty12_N810: does it only works online?
Oct 13 09:51:48 * Corsac hides
Oct 13 09:51:54 <johnx> qwerty12_N810, does it on symbian? or android? or winmo?
Oct 13 09:52:01 <GeneralAntilles> Corsac, yes.
Oct 13 09:52:34 <johnx> javispedro, then don't phrase it like it's fact and confuse people...that's exactly how rumors start
Oct 13 09:52:57 <javispedro> ok, hint got.
Oct 13 09:53:10 <qwerty12_N810> johnx: How would I know? But you have 1001 links to the Ovi store, and one icon for the Application manager hidden away with Extras disabled
Oct 13 09:53:21 <qwerty12_N810> So, yeah, I'd say it's a second-class citizen.
Oct 13 09:53:41 <johnx> qwerty12_N810, not sure I really follow. there was the big "tableteer" link on the N800 desktop and look how it totally took over everything *rolls eyes*
Oct 13 09:53:41 <johnx> javispedro, :) not meaning to be harsh...
Oct 13 09:54:28 <johnx> qwerty12_N810, the kind of people who actually *want* to install apps tend to be pretty good about finding this stuff
Oct 13 09:54:47 <johnx> but I guess I didn't realize it was going to be off by default on shipping devices
Oct 13 09:54:50 <johnx> think I'll wait and see
Oct 13 09:54:59 <Macer> Stskeeps: did you seriously make a mer image for the tb ? :) like. won't the hardware like not work?
Oct 13 09:55:00 <Stskeeps> keep in mind this is not the final sw though
Oct 13 09:55:10 <Stskeeps> Macer: i made a generic ARM image. it might work.
Oct 13 09:55:13 <Macer> i would figure you would need a kernel for it
Oct 13 09:55:14 <Macer> oh
Oct 13 09:55:22 <Stskeeps> want it?
Oct 13 09:55:24 <IcanCU_> so is maemo linux?
Oct 13 09:55:28 <Macer> not now but later today yes
Oct 13 09:55:33 <Stskeeps> k
Oct 13 09:55:34 <javispedro> johnx, no no, you're right. it shouldn't let my pesimism out so much.
Oct 13 09:55:36 <Macer> anything to get away from this tb os
Oct 13 09:55:37 <Macer> :)
Oct 13 09:55:44 <GeneralAntilles> Stskeeps, Quim basically said it wont.
Oct 13 09:55:48 <Macer> thanks
Oct 13 09:55:51 <javispedro> specially with the recent news about the 3d drivers :)
Oct 13 09:55:59 <Macer> it won't break my tb will it? :)
Oct 13 09:56:09 <Stskeeps> Macer: you'll have to take your chances.
Oct 13 09:56:09 <Corsac> isn't it already broken? :)
Oct 13 09:56:12 <Macer> lol
Oct 13 09:56:16 <GeneralAntilles> javispedro, I keep getting burned every time I try to be optimistic.
Oct 13 09:56:21 <GeneralAntilles> Getting hard to not be pessimistic.
Oct 13 09:56:23 <Macer> Corsac: haha.. depends on whgat you consider broken
Oct 13 09:56:31 <Macer> technicallyl.. i can boot it and i can use stuff on it
Oct 13 09:56:38 <johnx> javispedro, did they have a video of the security presentation online? or just the slides?
Oct 13 09:56:42 <Macer> so i guess it's not broken.. just not working to its full potential
Oct 13 09:56:57 <johnx> the slides look admittedly grim when viewed alone
Oct 13 09:56:58 <Macer> it could be awesome if it could run maemo or even android
Oct 13 09:57:05 <javispedro> johnx, dunno.
Oct 13 09:57:12 <Macer> but i need information on how to install other operating systems
Oct 13 09:57:15 <johnx> IcanCU_, yes
Oct 13 09:57:28 <Macer> Stskeeps: where did you find the info on how to install different operating systems?
Oct 13 09:57:51 <Stskeeps> Macer: i read the stuff to use to make a SD card and drew my own conclusions
Oct 13 09:58:02 <Macer> oh
Oct 13 09:58:05 <qwerty12_N810> wazd: iwannattestiwannatest
Oct 13 09:58:14 <Macer> so realistically it won't really affect anything since it's all sd huh?
Oct 13 09:58:15 <wazd> qwerty12_N810: oh shit
Oct 13 09:58:20 <wazd> qwerty12_N810: forgot to attach deb :D
Oct 13 09:58:21 <Macer> i could just use another sd :)
Oct 13 09:58:29 <Stskeeps> yeah
Oct 13 09:58:34 <Macer> awesome.. i have one handy
Oct 13 09:58:36 <qwerty12_N810> wazd: :D
Oct 13 09:58:52 <Macer> i'll try it out when i get back. thanks Stskeeps ... i sure hope it works
Oct 13 09:58:53 <Macer> :)
Oct 13 09:59:14 <Stskeeps> wazd: one twist to theme that would be nice.. something that indicates it's definately not nokian or something
Oct 13 09:59:16 <Macer> but i suppose if it doesn't i can always just build a new kernel with the mer omap kernel src
Oct 13 09:59:25 <Macer> since all the hardware in it is supposed to be "open"
Oct 13 09:59:25 <Stskeeps> it having Droid Sans on Mer probably helps
Oct 13 09:59:50 <qwerty12_N810> Ah, I should promote it
Oct 13 09:59:55 <qwerty12_N810> (Fremantle)
Oct 13 10:00:45 <johnx> Stskeeps, wazd, thoughts about keeping the "mer" button for the task switcher and/or launcher?
Oct 13 10:00:47 <wazd> Stskeeps: I'm thinking bout adding that nokia ship wallpaper :D
Oct 13 10:01:14 <Stskeeps> wazd: panoramic version ;p
Oct 13 10:01:18 <RST38h> wazd: Replace the boot up logo with the crazy fish!
Oct 13 10:01:27 <Stskeeps> Macer: uploading squashfs. eta 4m
Oct 13 10:01:30 <Stskeeps> err
Oct 13 10:01:31 <Stskeeps> 46m
Oct 13 10:01:46 <wazd> Upload of file failed.
Oct 13 10:01:52 <Jaffa> RST38h: A little Python app which had a list of countries and a "Download" button would be cool indeed
Oct 13 10:02:06 <qwerty12_N810> Stskeeps: I remember a time when you had rootfs' uploaded in minutes :p
Oct 13 10:02:17 <Stskeeps> qwerty12_N810: i live in poland now and i need to upgrade my internet connection.
Oct 13 10:03:16 <wazd> ah, max file size 488 kb
Oct 13 10:03:19 <wazd> wtf :)
Oct 13 10:03:27 <Stskeeps> wb jeremiah
Oct 13 10:03:41 <qwerty12_N810> jeremiah: Loooong journey? :p
Oct 13 10:03:44 <Stskeeps> jeremiah: when you have a minute, send the notes from the community SSU to maemo-developers
Oct 13 10:03:57 <RST38h> Jaffa: Exactly
Oct 13 10:04:03 <jeremiah> qwerty12_N810: heh, not too bad. :)
Oct 13 10:04:08 <Stskeeps> (please)
Oct 13 10:04:12 <RST38h> Jaffa: The really good question is *how the hell do you remove*???
Oct 13 10:04:15 <qwerty12_N810> wazd: Your theme is too good for Talk? Make it lame! :p
Oct 13 10:04:17 <jeremiah> Thunderstorms over Amsterdam made it a little bumpy though.
Oct 13 10:04:29 <qwerty12_N810> jeremiah: Heh, well, wb :)
Oct 13 10:04:32 <jeremiah> Stskeeps: I am going to do that soon, today.
Oct 13 10:04:33 <Stskeeps> jeremiah: yeah, that was a bit nasty :P
Oct 13 10:04:55 <jeremiah> Stskeeps: You had more of that than I since we flew away from it, you flew into it!
Oct 13 10:05:02 <frals> RST38h: sorry im a bit thick, but what is needed in the kernel to get the mms send/recv to work? from reading the MMS spec, this could all be done over http, assuming your carrier gateway supports it
Oct 13 10:05:12 <wazd> qwerty12_N810: there you go :)
Oct 13 10:05:22 <wazd> qwerty12_N810: http://lotro.ucoz.ru/marina.deb
Oct 13 10:05:33 <qwerty12_N810> Thank you, wazd
Oct 13 10:05:58 <wazd> Stskeeps: sure we'll still have mer logo in the corner :)
Oct 13 10:06:23 <Stskeeps> k
Oct 13 10:06:23 <jeremiah> waxd rocks
Oct 13 10:06:28 <wazd> Stskeeps: btw, I was thinking bout slight restyling :)
Oct 13 10:06:36 <jeremiah> sorry, I meant wazd rocks. :)
Oct 13 10:07:13 <Stskeeps> wazd: in what sense?
Oct 13 10:07:14 <wazd> Stskeeps: what if I'll make small bubbles around "e" to move like galaxy? :)
Oct 13 10:07:55 <wazd> Stskeeps: it will reduce logo height and add some more subliminal sense :)
Oct 13 10:08:10 <Stskeeps> hmm not sure
Oct 13 10:08:10 <crashanddie> what a fucking wanker: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=345169&postcount=24
Oct 13 10:08:16 <johnx> wazd, pics! :D
Oct 13 10:08:24 <crashanddie> he doesn't have the device, doesn't plan on buying it, and wants to organise a "class action"?
Oct 13 10:09:45 <GeneralAntilles> Clearly we should support him in any way possible.
Oct 13 10:10:08 <johnx> crashanddie, where's the "please fall in a hole" tag?
Oct 13 10:10:31 <ccooke> a class action for... what?
Oct 13 10:10:37 <GeneralAntilles> Somebody needs to yank the stylus control code from Quake 2 for Quake 3.
Oct 13 10:10:38 <Stskeeps> bacon
Oct 13 10:10:41 <ccooke> what is his alleged grievance?
Oct 13 10:10:47 <johnx> GeneralAntilles, support him right into a passing bus?
Oct 13 10:10:48 <ccooke> Stskeeps: oh, well. Sign me up!
Oct 13 10:10:49 <qwerty12_N810> When did Maemo start attracting tossers and losers? :(
Oct 13 10:11:01 <ccooke> qwerty12_N810: ... you've *read* the forums, right?
Oct 13 10:11:04 <X-Fade> GeneralAntilles: I actually like the q3 one.
Oct 13 10:11:05 <GeneralAntilles> qwerty12_N810, ever since you got interested. :P
Oct 13 10:11:07 <Myrtti> qwerty12_N810: age ago
Oct 13 10:11:16 <X-Fade> GeneralAntilles: Takes a bit of practice, but then it rocks ;)
Oct 13 10:11:29 <GeneralAntilles> X-Fade, whenever I pick up my stylus and set it down somewhere else I look at the ceiling or the floor.
Oct 13 10:11:31 <GeneralAntilles> I don't like that.
Oct 13 10:11:38 <qwerty12_N810> ccooke: Yes, and I refuse to believe what I'm seeing :(
Oct 13 10:11:45 <X-Fade> GeneralAntilles: But I purely do that because I need to QA the package, of course :D
Oct 13 10:11:57 <qwerty12_N810> Myrtti: True :(
Oct 13 10:11:59 <johnx> qwerty12_N810, just tell your friends that you liked maemo before it was cool
Oct 13 10:12:03 <ccooke> qwerty12_N810: I'd have to refer you to Sturgeon's law at this point :-/
Oct 13 10:12:04 <glass> qwerty12_N810: with the sexy adverts of course
Oct 13 10:12:11 <X-Fade> GeneralAntilles: What would you use the stylus for anyway?
Oct 13 10:12:24 <GeneralAntilles> X-Fade, mouselook?
Oct 13 10:12:40 <X-Fade> GeneralAntilles: Ah, don't use that.
Oct 13 10:13:05 <X-Fade> GeneralAntilles: I always hate it when things obscure your image.
Oct 13 10:13:06 <Jaffa> RST38h: Download the zip, unzip -l to find files and delete? Or, don't support removing ;-)
Oct 13 10:13:14 <glass> mouselook is pretty essential unless you want your ass whooped
Oct 13 10:13:31 <X-Fade> glass: This one has autoaim.
Oct 13 10:13:36 <GeneralAntilles> Holy shit.
Oct 13 10:13:38 <glass> X-Fade: even then
Oct 13 10:13:43 <GeneralAntilles> Nokia actually fixed a docs bug. <_<
Oct 13 10:14:01 <GeneralAntilles> X-Fade, yes, I know how much you love gazing upon my glorious visage. :P
Oct 13 10:14:02 <qwerty12_N810> GeneralAntilles: Nokia fixed a bug?
Oct 13 10:14:12 <glass> X-Fade: mouselook was the key to whooping ass on duke3d even if it didn't support up/down on it properly, and even on doom
Oct 13 10:14:13 <qwerty12_N810> This calls for celebration!
Oct 13 10:14:29 <GeneralAntilles> qwerty12_N810, hooray, mediocrity!
Oct 13 10:14:37 * Stskeeps should try on his fixedinfremantle tshirt
Oct 13 10:15:01 * GeneralAntilles wants his Summit goodies. :(
Oct 13 10:15:32 <X-Fade> GeneralAntilles: Btw, did Murphy kick in and deliver your passport on the day the plane was supposed to leave?
Oct 13 10:15:39 <X-Fade> GeneralAntilles: Or is it still not there yet.
Oct 13 10:15:43 <GeneralAntilles> X-Fade, it was 28 hours late.
Oct 13 10:15:47 <ccooke> ow.
Oct 13 10:15:54 <X-Fade> GeneralAntilles: Aw... sucks.
Oct 13 10:16:05 <johnx> ahaha...I just got spam that told me to "go back to school"
Oct 13 10:16:08 <ShadowJK> frals, I'm nots ure what kernel stuff you'd need even for non-http mms transport... it's "just" about opening a new ppp session with the mms APN and doing wap on that? ;-)
Oct 13 10:16:22 <qwerty12_N810> johnx: Sure it was spam? ;D
Oct 13 10:16:32 <ccooke> Receiving MMS properly will be harer
Oct 13 10:16:34 <ccooke> harder
Oct 13 10:16:43 <frals> yeah shouldnt have had the http stuff in there
Oct 13 10:17:01 <frals> i mean, as long as you dont have a current connection it shouldnt be a problem to just fetch the message i though
Oct 13 10:17:35 <johnx> qwerty12_N810, yeah, yeah. you can go back to school too...oh wait, too soon for that one :P
Oct 13 10:17:41 <ShadowJK> and multiple connections depends on the interface to the gsm/3g bits...
Oct 13 10:18:10 <qwerty12_N810> johnx: College kicks its ass :p
Oct 13 10:19:46 <johnx> not getting fed up with non-compsci classes yet?
Oct 13 10:20:05 <qwerty12_N810> Nope :)
Oct 13 10:20:15 <GeneralAntilles> Give it a semester. :P
Oct 13 10:21:16 <qwerty12_N810> wazd: It's almost blasphemous�in Nokia-land to have a picture of a Sony Ericsson as your phone icon
Oct 13 10:22:49 * GeneralAntilles wonders who it is that adds all of these ridiculous tags.
Oct 13 10:23:04 <GeneralAntilles> "pandora v linear time war"
Oct 13 10:25:58 <lardman> morning all
Oct 13 10:26:14 <JamieBennett> morning
Oct 13 10:26:15 <Stskeeps> morning lardman
Oct 13 10:26:20 <lardman> hey chaps
Oct 13 10:26:40 <lardman> JamieBennett: you'll be glad to hear the laptop survived the trip back
Oct 13 10:26:54 <JamieBennett> lardman: The footage isn't great though :(
Oct 13 10:26:58 <lardman> no?
Oct 13 10:26:59 <lardman> shame
Oct 13 10:27:07 <lardman> some post processing for you to do then?
Oct 13 10:27:27 <JamieBennett> audio and positioning of the camera's is off and there is no n810 footage from the first day :(
Oct 13 10:27:34 <X-Fade> Next time we need to make sure we take auto from the mixer.
Oct 13 10:27:39 <X-Fade> *audio ;)
Oct 13 10:27:59 <JamieBennett> X-Fade: Yes
Oct 13 10:28:38 <lardman> andre__: ping
Oct 13 10:29:34 <lardman> or indeed everyone with an N900 w/ new sw, could someone take a look at bugs #5369 and #5368 and check it's valid for the latest, and if so change the target?
Oct 13 10:30:01 <lardman> s/everyone/anyone
Oct 13 10:30:30 <Jaffa> JamieBennett: I thought they were supposed to be professionals?!
Oct 13 10:30:40 <JamieBennett> So did I Jaffa
Oct 13 10:30:55 <Jaffa> Where did they take the audio from if not the mixer?
Oct 13 10:31:32 <JamieBennett> From the camcorder mic without a directional setting so you get the audio from the camera position which was the back of the room for the n800 room :(
Oct 13 10:31:58 <andre__> lardman, yes, but what is "nigh-on"?
Oct 13 10:32:00 <Jaffa> But what were the mics for then?
Oct 13 10:32:06 <Jaffa> That's fscking ridiculous.
Oct 13 10:32:08 <lardman> andre__: ah, nearly
Oct 13 10:32:28 <lardman> andre__: sorry for my old-school English ;)
Oct 13 10:33:05 <JamieBennett> Jaffa: Maybe the keynote footage from the n900 room will be mixed with audio when it comes back (I'm not doing that) but as for the other talks/rooms its only on the camera's.
Oct 13 10:33:38 <Jaffa> They shouldn't be paid.
Oct 13 10:34:11 <JamieBennett> lardman: Are you in front of your computer for a while today? I can't get into Bath before the weekend and I need day 2's footage. Can you uploaded it if I set up a ftp server?
Oct 13 10:34:11 <SpeedEvil> andre__: It is close in meaning to 'near to'
Oct 13 10:34:20 <JamieBennett> Jaffa: You'll soon see the footage :(
Oct 13 10:35:51 <andre__> interesting.
Oct 13 10:36:46 <qwerty12_N810> wazd: ping?
Oct 13 10:37:52 <lardman> JamieBennett: yeah sure, will have to be after lunch tho as I left the laptop at home
Oct 13 10:38:00 <lardman> can pop home and pick it up
Oct 13 10:38:13 <JamieBennett> lardman: great.
Oct 13 10:41:16 <ensi> hmm are there some security policies or something on Maemo? I try to create a new file with QFile and it fails.
Oct 13 10:41:40 <ensi> hmm
Oct 13 10:41:43 <X-Fade> ensi: no, not in Maemo 5 or lower.
Oct 13 10:42:30 <ensi> so its just the normal *nix file permissions that apply then?
Oct 13 10:42:42 <X-Fade> ensi: yes. Apps run as 'user'
Oct 13 10:42:50 <ensi> aight
Oct 13 10:42:51 <ensi> thanks
Oct 13 10:44:45 <SpeedEvil> Are tehre plans to make different apps run as different users?
Oct 13 10:44:56 <crashanddie> Yes
Oct 13 10:44:58 <crashanddie> well
Oct 13 10:45:00 <crashanddie> depends
Oct 13 10:45:32 <crashanddie> Elena, during her talk about Platform Security mentioned that it would be interesting to have application-level identification, allowing access to specific resources based on which application is running
Oct 13 10:45:59 <jaska> sounds rather national-socialist
Oct 13 10:46:06 <jaska> down that slope lies crap like symbian signed
Oct 13 10:46:17 <glass__> sounds rather symbian platsec shitness, yes
Oct 13 10:46:30 <zaheerm> you know it is coming though...
Oct 13 10:46:32 <crashanddie> depends, it depends on the implementation
Oct 13 10:46:42 <jaska> also i wonder what api i need to fiddle with to filter calls
Oct 13 10:46:55 <glass__> crashanddie: and then letting webruntime to do it all regardless of it
Oct 13 10:46:58 <jaska> or do i have to go poking around in other processes memory spaces
Oct 13 10:47:31 <wazd> qwerty12_N810: yeah, I already noticed that, but that's oxygen icons, I'm still making my own :)
Oct 13 10:47:45 <crashanddie> by the way, wazd, were you at the summit?
Oct 13 10:47:51 <wazd> crashanddie: nope
Oct 13 10:47:52 <qwerty12_N810> wazd: Awesome :D
Oct 13 10:47:57 <keesj> The idea is apparently to perform application signing and even runtime in-memory checking
Oct 13 10:47:59 <crashanddie> wazd: shame, a lot of people wanted to see you there
Oct 13 10:48:16 <wazd> crashanddie: my army dep didn't :D
Oct 13 10:48:24 <crashanddie> keesj: don't think that will be the actual implementation
Oct 13 10:48:32 <crashanddie> keesj: not if I have anything to do with it
Oct 13 10:49:12 <keesj> they need to indentify processes so there is no real choice if you ask me
Oct 13 10:49:19 <crashanddie> there is, actually
Oct 13 10:49:27 <ensi> you guys are pretty intimately involved with maemo?
Oct 13 10:49:43 <glass> the signin houses will push for that anyhow(and some of them do maemo contracting)
Oct 13 10:49:45 <crashanddie> I've been tinkering about it, and will expose my thoughts, still waiting for the thread to pop up any interesting ideas though
Oct 13 10:49:45 <keesj> crashanddie: like what?
Oct 13 10:50:15 <jaska> that kind of stuff was why i ran away from symbian as fast as i could
Oct 13 10:50:16 <wazd> qwerty12_N810: as for SDK - I've made it work, but it crashes with segfault
Oct 13 10:50:41 <qwerty12_N810> wazd: Hmm, where? I use it VMware fine
Oct 13 10:50:52 <wazd> qwerty12_N810: vmware too
Oct 13 10:51:24 <wazd> qwerty12_N810: ubuntu vmware
Oct 13 10:51:29 <wazd> qwerty12_N810: oh
Oct 13 10:51:40 <keesj> crashanddie: like what?
Oct 13 10:52:41 <wazd> qwerty12_N810: vmware ubuntu :D
Oct 13 10:52:44 <qwerty12_N810> wazd: Oh, when reporting bugs, do you want me to be anal (you know, little things and such)?
Oct 13 10:52:53 <wazd> qwerty12_N810: sure
Oct 13 10:53:15 <wazd> qwerty12_N810: you can even invite infobot and make out :D
Oct 13 10:53:34 <qwerty12_N810> wazd: rofl :D
Oct 13 10:53:57 <keesj> they will also have some closed storage and such but what they are trying sounds like a silver bullet. nothing like selinux or other stuff targeted at protecting some webserver from doing weird stuff
Oct 13 10:55:17 <jeremiah> keesj: Well, a little bit. They do want to have priviledges which sorta says; "You can use the 3g modem, but you over there cannot."
Oct 13 10:55:21 <Jaffa> jeremiah: "*should* be painless". This is a production system running a variety of websites, don't want to suffer a lot of pain ;-)
Oct 13 10:55:30 <jeremiah> Jaffa: Yeah.
Oct 13 10:55:32 <jeremiah> I hear you.
Oct 13 10:55:49 <jeremiah> Well, it really should be painless.
Oct 13 10:55:51 * Jaffa should do it, but he'll need to allocate a weekend and notify everyone
Oct 13 10:56:01 <jeremiah> Yeah, you may need to do that.
Oct 13 10:56:28 <jeremiah> Debian works really hard to make sure the transition from old-stable to stable goes smoothly.
Oct 13 10:56:34 <jeremiah> But of course, things break. :)
Oct 13 10:56:43 <jeremiah> Although I didn't have any breakage.
Oct 13 10:57:42 <wazd> qwerty12_N810: let's test your tiny detail notice skills :)
Oct 13 10:58:18 <qwerty12_N810> wazd: Fine! But I can't promise that you'll like what you see :p
Oct 13 10:58:43 <wazd> qwerty12_N810: for example grey arrow in the URL is a large detail - wrong background of the combobox is tiny detail :D
Oct 13 10:59:14 <wazd> qwerty12_N810: well, the only way to fix something is to locate it :)
Oct 13 10:59:39 <qwerty12_N810> True :)
Oct 13 11:00:34 <wazd> qwerty12_N810: how's it overall?
Oct 13 11:01:02 <qwerty12_N810> Really good, I'm seeing no major issues that would make me need to switch back
Oct 13 11:01:33 <Stskeeps> check the IM window and see if it is better
Oct 13 11:01:56 <qwerty12_N810> I haven't added any accounts
Oct 13 11:03:07 <Jaffa> jeremiah: Cool, thanks for the reassurance
Oct 13 11:04:52 <RST38h> Back
Oct 13 11:05:03 <jeremiah> :)
Oct 13 11:05:30 <crashanddie> keesj: doing full blown PKI on process level is going to be a CPU hog
Oct 13 11:05:41 <crashanddie> keesj: if it's not implemented correctly, we're going to criple the whole system
Oct 13 11:06:07 <X-Fade> crashanddie: OMAP3 has hardware for that.
Oct 13 11:06:10 <RST38h> Jaffa: If you told me anything about that Map Loader app after I was called to the meeting, please repeat (and I am sorry :))
Oct 13 11:06:33 <crashanddie> X-Fade: I don't believe signing/verification of 2048 keys is going to be fast enough
Oct 13 11:06:50 <X-Fade> crashanddie: It can do all kinds of encryption/decryption on separate hardware.
Oct 13 11:07:09 <X-Fade> We might even want to try to get openssh to use it ;)
Oct 13 11:07:17 <crashanddie> wouldn't be a bad thing
Oct 13 11:07:22 <Jaffa> RST38h: Nah, don't think so. Apart from a really hacky idea on removal ;-)
Oct 13 11:07:31 <crashanddie> if it does have a cp, I'm definitely going to have fun with it though
Oct 13 11:07:46 <lardman> I thought the idea was to validate the source repo (e.g. maemo.org or ovi stores) and that automatically validates the permissions, which are all stored in the central protected storage. i.e. 2x key validations per app?
Oct 13 11:07:48 <Jaffa> crashanddie: Elena's talk had it doing a SHA-1 hash on a process binary and using that, rather than signing every single binary
Oct 13 11:07:53 <Corsac> yeah, I'd be interested in using that for ipsec stuff
Oct 13 11:08:58 <crashanddie> Corsac: VPN would definitely be a big bonus
Oct 13 11:09:07 <X-Fade> crashanddie: M-Shield. Security Technology: SHA-1/MD5,
Oct 13 11:09:08 <X-Fade> DES/3DES, RNG, AES, PKA, Secure WDT, Keys
Oct 13 11:09:21 <crashanddie> I'd like to have 2FA soft-tokens on the device
Oct 13 11:09:26 <X-Fade> http://focus.ti.com/lit/ml/swpt024b/swpt024b.pdf
Oct 13 11:09:39 <crashanddie> Jaffa: sha-1 would be stupid IMHO
Oct 13 11:09:48 <Jaffa> crashanddie: This was discussed in this channel at the time ;-)
Oct 13 11:09:55 <Jaffa> Although "currently" was emphasised.
Oct 13 11:10:03 <lardman> why stupid? slow?
Oct 13 11:10:17 <crashanddie> Jaffa: 3DES would be sufficient, if regenerated and salted properly
Oct 13 11:10:27 <Jaffa> We need to link http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2009-10-11.log.html#t2009-10-11T12:50:36 to Elena's slides and video when they're published
Oct 13 11:10:27 <RST38h> Jaffa: Well for removal we can store file names when adding and then delete these same file names
Oct 13 11:10:53 <RST38h> Jaffa: Actually, it is even easier: we can make deb packages of these4 map sets and place them into repo
Oct 13 11:10:55 <zerojay> Can someone approve me for extras uploading?
Oct 13 11:10:56 <Jaffa> lardman: Trivial to get one process signed which does A and then replace it (without changing SHA-1 signature) with binary B
Oct 13 11:11:04 <RST38h> dpkg will then take care fo installaiton AND removal
Oct 13 11:11:20 <lardman> Jaffa: ok, not very unique then
Oct 13 11:11:30 <Jaffa> lardman: Collisions are engineerable, yes.
Oct 13 11:11:45 <lardman> fair enough, was only an example tho wasn't it
Oct 13 11:11:53 <lardman> the use of this algo
Oct 13 11:12:24 <Jaffa> lardman: It said "processes verified using checksum stored in Aegis Protected Storage (currently SHA-1)"
Oct 13 11:12:40 * Jaffa could try uploading the few photos he took on his N900
Oct 13 11:13:12 <lardman> yeah, but the algo used for the hash can be changed was my assumption, and they were using sha-1 for whatever reason during testing
Oct 13 11:13:28 <Jaffa> lardman: agreed
Oct 13 11:13:32 <X-Fade> Yeah, and maybe they just use multiple hashes.
Oct 13 11:13:56 <X-Fade> although that would be slow ;)
Oct 13 11:13:56 <Jaffa> Photos on their way to flickr
Oct 13 11:16:37 <crashanddie> Is gcobb around?
Oct 13 11:16:41 <crashanddie> I just realised
Oct 13 11:16:46 <crashanddie> He wrote GPE, did he?
Oct 13 11:16:50 <zaheerm> Jaffa, your maps trick actually works?
Oct 13 11:17:04 <X-Fade> crashanddie: s/wrote/works on/
Oct 13 11:17:10 <zerojay> X-Fade: Can you approve me for extras uploading?
Oct 13 11:17:38 <X-Fade> zerojay: Did you ask an invite?
Oct 13 11:18:06 <zaheerm> Jaffa, i do that on my e71 all the time, but didn't expect the n900's one to support downloaded data
Oct 13 11:18:39 <Jaffa> zaheerm: Yup. Definitely.
Oct 13 11:18:42 <Jaffa> crashanddie_: He did.
Oct 13 11:19:09 <zerojay> X-Fade: I did.
Oct 13 11:19:42 <zaheerm> here goes, putting the whole of usa on for my upcoming trip to SF
Oct 13 11:21:31 <tekojo> Jaffa what maps trick, saving maps to device? you got me curious :-)
Oct 13 11:21:47 <zaheerm> http://www.maemopeople.org/index.php/jaffa/2009/10/13/downloading_ovi_maps_without_a_network_c
Oct 13 11:21:51 <X-Fade> zerojay: When did you do that? I didn't see anything?
Oct 13 11:21:53 <qwerty12_N810> Hiya, tekojo
Oct 13 11:22:11 <zerojay> X-Fade: Last night.
Oct 13 11:22:15 <tekojo> qwerty12_N810 Hi!
Oct 13 11:22:25 <zerojay> X-Fade: I'll request it again, I guess.
Oct 13 11:22:34 <Jaffa> tekojo: The URL pointed to by zaheerm documents how you can pre-download Ovi Maps maps to your device
Oct 13 11:23:09 <tekojo> Nice, I didn't know that :-)
Oct 13 11:23:21 <Jaffa> tekojo: heh
Oct 13 11:23:30 * Stskeeps bookmarks
Oct 13 11:23:49 <Jaffa> http://www.slideshare.net/peterschneider/maemo-6-platform-security
Oct 13 11:23:50 <Jaffa> Slides
Oct 13 11:23:51 <lardman> what we need is the api of the map renderer then we can get rid of crappy ovi-maps
Oct 13 11:24:12 <lardman> tho the renderer is probably part of the crappy app too
Oct 13 11:24:34 <X-Fade> lardman: it looks like maps is a c++ app with a javascript frontend.
Oct 13 11:24:50 <lardman> hmm, interesting, so it might be doable then
Oct 13 11:24:57 <X-Fade> So you might be able to use a different frontend ;)
Oct 13 11:25:11 <Stskeeps> like maemo mapper ;p
Oct 13 11:25:33 <lardman> and most importantly a different backend to do searching
Oct 13 11:25:57 <lardman> sometimes not finding "Amsterdam" is not really good form in my book ;)
Oct 13 11:26:12 <suihkulokki> X-Fade / tekojo, maemo extras seems to have pulled in a upgrade for a package that is included in PR configuration (libffi5)
Oct 13 11:26:50 <Corsac> Jaffa: urf, flash only?
Oct 13 11:27:22 <X-Fade> suihkulokki: Hmmm need to investigate that.
Oct 13 11:29:31 <Corsac> ha no, I can request a link to download the pdf
Oct 13 11:30:21 <RST38h> lardman: Such API already exists
Oct 13 11:30:41 <RST38h> lardman: http://projects.gnome.org/libchamplain/
Oct 13 11:30:42 <lardman> RST38h: cool, do you have a link?
Oct 13 11:30:47 <lardman> ah
Oct 13 11:30:54 <RST38h> lardman: And there is a viewer for it in GNOME
Oct 13 11:31:04 <RST38h> Port the viewer, add a few more datasources and you are done
Oct 13 11:31:15 <lardman> but does it understand the OVI maps?
Oct 13 11:31:21 <RST38h> Of course not
Oct 13 11:31:29 <RST38h> This requires hacking .cdt files
Oct 13 11:31:42 <lardman> but is doable?
Oct 13 11:31:48 <lardman> s/doable/done
Oct 13 11:31:54 <lardman> proven at least?
Oct 13 11:32:04 <RST38h> I have not looked at .cdt yet
Oct 13 11:32:12 <RST38h> May try, if I have time
Oct 13 11:32:18 <RST38h> Nokia will be pissed off, too
Oct 13 11:32:33 <lardman> ah ok, was wondering if we could just re-wrap the app, so no treading on toes by reversing the format, etc
Oct 13 11:32:46 <RST38h> gimme a moment
Oct 13 11:34:22 <RST38h> Nothing on global forums. Looks like I will have to try Russian GPS forums next
Oct 13 11:34:27 <lardman> :)
Oct 13 11:35:13 <ensi> im looking for a way to backup device contacts, what would be the best way? find the system addressbook file and simply copy that file, or manually get a list of contacts and write another file or possibly through the backup api?
Oct 13 11:35:13 <wazd> Anyone related to FM radio app for n900 here?
Oct 13 11:35:36 <Stskeeps> ensi: it has a bxport thing
Oct 13 11:35:39 <Stskeeps> export
Oct 13 11:35:43 <qwerty12_N810> wazd: No, but you can find pycage on Talk
Oct 13 11:36:30 <ensi> Stskeeps: contact book?
Oct 13 11:36:50 <Stskeeps> on n900 at least
Oct 13 11:37:11 <RST38h> .cdt is a Smart2Go file format
Oct 13 11:37:26 <ensi> Stskeeps: what function should i look at, somewhere in osso-abook?
Oct 13 11:37:28 <RST38h> Also a CorelDraw drawing, which may not be a coinicidence
Oct 13 11:40:58 <Jaffa> ensi: Run "Backup" and select "Communication and Contacts" (top option in a backup, IIRC)
Oct 13 11:41:08 <Jaffa> ensi: Or, within Contacts "Export contacts"
Oct 13 11:41:22 <wazd> qwerty12_N810: I have a cool idea for FM ui :)
Oct 13 11:41:39 <ensi> Jaffa: erm, im looking for a way to do this programmatically
Oct 13 11:42:02 <qwerty12_N810> wao: Nice, it's a little barebones ATM :)
Oct 13 11:42:07 <qwerty12_N810> *wazd
Oct 13 11:42:11 <qwerty12_N810> sorry, wao
Oct 13 11:42:47 <lardman> why is "Python for S60" the top download on Garage?
Oct 13 11:42:58 <GeneralAntilles> Who the hell knows.
Oct 13 11:43:01 <qwerty12_N810> Why is it even on Garage?
Oct 13 11:43:05 <GeneralAntilles> Not sure how it got approved in the first place.
Oct 13 11:43:05 <lardman> indeed
Oct 13 11:43:21 <GeneralAntilles> Wasting our bandwidth for S60. . . .
Oct 13 11:43:31 <lardman> X-Fade: any thoughts?
Oct 13 11:44:33 <zaheerm> ensi, libosso-ab is probably api you want
Oct 13 11:45:45 <wao> woz
Oct 13 11:46:10 <lardman> so libchamplain or osm-gps-map for a map widget? Anyone have any experience with these (or others)?
Oct 13 11:46:37 <zaheerm> libosso-abook even
Oct 13 11:47:50 <Jaffa> ensi: Iterate over all EContact records and save the vCard? Invoke the osso_abook API/backup API?
Oct 13 11:47:59 <Jaffa> ensi: 3) Don't write s/w which'll fuck it up ;-)
Oct 13 11:48:03 <Shapeshifter> does maemo have libio?
Oct 13 11:48:05 <Shapeshifter> libgio
Oct 13 11:48:21 <X-Fade> lardman: They needed a home.
Oct 13 11:48:23 <ensi> Jaffa: sorry, dumb question whats s/w? :)
Oct 13 11:48:28 <X-Fade> lardman: We gave it to them ;)
Oct 13 11:48:41 <zaheerm> ensi, s/w == software
Oct 13 11:49:32 <Shapeshifter> nvm
Oct 13 11:49:37 <ensi> oh yeah well this will probably fuck it up
Oct 13 11:49:47 <ensi> (;
Oct 13 11:50:02 <lardman> X-Fade: I see
Oct 13 11:50:31 <lardman> X-Fade: is there no equiv to Garage for the Symbian guys then?
Oct 13 11:51:06 <qwerty12_N810> lardman: Looking at Python, I'd guess Garage itself is the equivalent...
Oct 13 11:51:08 <Jaffa> ensi: Warn the user about backups/do it yourself, if your app needs to programmatically back it up, your app is buggy ;-)
Oct 13 11:51:14 <X-Fade> lardman: not at that moment at least.
Oct 13 11:51:19 <lcuk> X-Fade, community assistance to evil operating systems is great! :D
Oct 13 11:51:37 <ensi> Jaffa: im just doing what im told to do :)
Oct 13 11:51:46 <lardman> lcuk: it's open source!
Oct 13 11:51:53 <X-Fade> lcuk: We all love python, right?
Oct 13 11:51:55 <Jaffa> X-Fade: So, what's wrong with them using code.google.com or sourceforge.net or codehaus.org or ...?
Oct 13 11:52:03 <Corsac> Jaffa: erf, just noticed
Oct 13 11:52:15 <Corsac> Jaffa: the slides are about Maemo 6, not Maemo 5 :)
Oct 13 11:52:21 <X-Fade> Jaffa: They had problems with sourceforge, where they were before.
Oct 13 11:52:22 <Corsac> is it the same in Maemo5 ?
Oct 13 11:52:23 * lardman heads for lunch
Oct 13 11:52:31 <Jaffa> Corsac: Yeah, there's no DRM in Maemo 5; or signed kernel or signed image or ...
Oct 13 11:52:33 <lardman> JamieBennett: will ping you when I get back online there
Oct 13 11:52:33 <lcuk> jaffa, cos maemo.org is a friendly place and offered things no other hosting service did
Oct 13 11:52:36 <X-Fade> Jaffa: But I don't know the reasoning anymore, long time ago.
Oct 13 11:52:38 <Corsac> Jaffa: oki
Oct 13 11:52:39 <lcuk> afterall, there is only one X-Fade
Oct 13 11:52:48 <JamieBennett> lardman: great, thanks
Oct 13 11:52:52 <Corsac> Jaffa: so the N900 has no security architecture at the moment?
Oct 13 11:53:04 <Jaffa> Corsac: It has root. It has not-root.
Oct 13 11:53:08 <Corsac> ok :)
Oct 13 11:54:13 <tbf> ...i wonder if the clueless and aggressive trolling of the qt fanboys made them start thinking of DRM
Oct 13 11:54:16 <xzsh> How/Where is contacts stored in Maemo?
Oct 13 11:54:26 <tbf> xzsh: ~/.osso-abook
Oct 13 11:54:55 <tbf> xzsh: have a look at libebook or libosso-abook to access them
Oct 13 11:58:22 <tbf> ensi: Jaffa: backup scripts are in /etc/osso-backup
Oct 13 11:58:57 <Corsac> Jaffa: erf, so you removed everything from the Discussion page?
Oct 13 11:58:57 <tbf> ensi: and you should seriously consider using/adoption those scripts unless you want proper backup/restore
Oct 13 11:59:11 <Jaffa> Corsac: There wasn't anything on the discussion page (which confused me)
Oct 13 11:59:27 <tbf> ensi: there are dozens of tiny race conditions to consider for proper backup/restore
Oct 13 11:59:38 <Jaffa> Corsac: Unless something went weird on the intertubes
Oct 13 11:59:45 <zerojayN900> fucking xchat crashing left and right..
Oct 13 12:00:10 <Jaffa> Corsac: Ah, maybe Talk:MaemoSecurity wasn't moved to Talk:Maemo_security?
Oct 13 12:00:26 <Corsac> hmhm, maybe
Oct 13 12:00:43 <Corsac> http://wiki.maemo.org/Talk:MaemoSecurity
Oct 13 12:00:49 <Corsac> definitely :)
Oct 13 12:01:06 <ensi> tbf: basically im working on application that will do some stuff with the contacts in the addressbook and one of the requirements is that it needs to create a backup and be ableto restore the system addressbook from that backup
Oct 13 12:01:17 <ensi> tbf: is there a C "backup" api or something?
Oct 13 12:01:28 <Corsac> Jaffa: why Maemo_Security and Talk:MaemoSecurity? :)
Oct 13 12:01:57 <Jaffa> Corsac: It's not, MaemoSecurity is not conformant with the wiki.maemo.org naming standards.
Oct 13 12:02:02 <Jaffa> It's now Maemo_security and Talk:Maemo_security - I've merged the content across from the earlier discussion page
Oct 13 12:02:06 <tbf> ensi: execl() :-D
Oct 13 12:02:28 <tbf> ensi: afaik there also is some dbus API, but never really cared
Oct 13 12:02:45 <Shapeshifter> How can I find out versions of apps and libs and such in maemo with apt-get? apt-get seems a bit broken, like it doens't know "apt-get search"
Oct 13 12:02:52 <ensi> tbf: so the backup application is built on those scripts in /etc ?
Oct 13 12:03:05 <tbf> ensi: but my brain still hurts from all the "getting backup right" discussions
Oct 13 12:03:09 <tbf> ensi: yup
Oct 13 12:03:46 <ensi> tbf: you mentioned race conditions before, can you clarify? I presume you mean something like application running a backup while some other service/user is adding/deleting contacts from the system address book?
Oct 13 12:05:41 <tbf> ensi: there are some dbus signals telling the system about backup running. afaik hildon-desktop reacts by killing apps and freezing the task launcher
Oct 13 12:06:11 <tbf> ensi: but background daemons like EDS must be killed manually. all this concurrency. big mess.
Oct 13 12:06:35 <Corsac> pff, I really don't like forum-based community, I so much prefer irc and mailing lists :)
Oct 13 12:06:40 <tbf> ensi: what we do now for proper backup/restore is copying the raw db files on backup and restoring them under special name during restore
Oct 13 12:06:59 <tbf> ensi: when EDS is started the next time it moves those special files at the right place
Oct 13 12:07:31 <tbf> ensi: but that's all implementation details, so i really encourage you do find docs on osso-abook or to figure out how to run those backup scripts manually
Oct 13 12:07:47 <tbf> ensi: if there is no documentation for the backup process it might be worth to ask
Oct 13 12:08:11 <tbf> ensi: (bugs.maemo.org, talk.maemo.org, facebook, ... you get the idea)
Oct 13 12:08:20 <wazd> http://s16.radikal.ru/i190/0910/3b/ca2ad9bb1941.png <- tada!
Oct 13 12:08:29 <timeless_mbp> andre__: ping
Oct 13 12:08:38 <timeless_mbp> where do i file language bugs in bugs.maemo.org? :)
Oct 13 12:08:38 <ensi> tbf: oh you are talking about backup from the backup perspective, i.e. when the backup scripts are run it emits signals through d-bus to make sure that no applications are messing about with the global state?
Oct 13 12:09:08 <RST38h> wazd: Hurrah! Does it work?
Oct 13 12:09:14 <Corsac> with kinetic scrolling?
Oct 13 12:09:25 <tbf> ensi: yup
Oct 13 12:09:25 <Corsac> and logarithmic stuff
Oct 13 12:09:42 <wazd> RST38h: sure not)
Oct 13 12:09:58 <tbf> wazd: WTF? Radio plugin for the media player?
Oct 13 12:10:06 <tbf> wazd: how is that possible?
Oct 13 12:10:09 <wazd> tbf: UI concept for FM
Oct 13 12:10:09 <RST38h> but definitely want it
Oct 13 12:10:19 <tbf> ah, "just" a mockup
Oct 13 12:10:25 <tbf> but looks awesome
Oct 13 12:10:49 <ensi> tbf: so your opinion about taking a static list of contacts from the system addressbook and dumping those to a file? and when user wants to restore just read the file and insert back into system addressbook?
Oct 13 12:10:56 <ensi> tbf: doomed to fail?
Oct 13 12:10:57 <wazd> can't find pycage theme
Oct 13 12:10:57 <tbf> wazd: well, you might want to hide "Settings" button in the app menu
Oct 13 12:11:26 <andre__> timeless, Translations maybe? ;-)
Oct 13 12:11:41 <timeless_mbp> which meta thing is that?
Oct 13 12:11:44 <tbf> ensi: doomed
Oct 13 12:11:47 <wazd> tbf: maybe
Oct 13 12:12:00 <RST38h> wazd: If it is a mockup, you can light it up with warm vacuum tube glow =)
Oct 13 12:12:26 <wazd> RST38h: well, it's "realistic" mockup :)
Oct 13 12:12:27 <tbf> ensi: UIDs will be wrong, IM contacts will break.
Oct 13 12:12:44 <tbf> ensi: also it will take quite some time
Oct 13 12:13:02 <RST38h> wazd: there is no such widget as you have drawn, so there is no problem doing it either way you like
Oct 13 12:13:05 <tbf> ensi: initially we did the same, but it just doesn't work
Oct 13 12:13:11 <RST38h> wazd: you are not limited with system theme there
Oct 13 12:13:22 <ensi> tbf: IM contacts refer to their master contact through the contact uid ?
Oct 13 12:13:43 <ensi> tbf: and that would change in the process?
Oct 13 12:13:43 <wazd> RST38h: Pannable area :)
Oct 13 12:14:01 <tbf> RST38h: wazd: it's just a matter of putting a GtkViewPort into a HildonPanneable area and putting some little cairo code into the ViewPort's expose-event handler
Oct 13 12:14:39 <tbf> ensi: yup. you have to preserve UIDs.
Oct 13 12:14:51 <RST38h> tbf: Yea but may point is that you can draw whatever you want there
Oct 13 12:14:53 <tbf> Jaffa: ^^ btw, that also applies for Hermes ;-)
Oct 13 12:15:17 <RST38h> tbf: solid background, lit up "paper" panel, huge oiled screw, live animated snake etc
Oct 13 12:15:39 <tbf> Jaffa: guess writing a Facebook/Twitter/GData CM for Telepathy would be a more robust approach to integrate those services
Oct 13 12:16:01 <wazd> RST38h: yeah, retro style would be cool :)
Oct 13 12:16:06 <tbf> Jaffa: investigating this
Oct 13 12:16:37 <frals> RST38h: sorry to bother you again, but when you said kernelwork was needed for MMS, i assume this is for correct routing/setting up connection to the right apn, is this right?
Oct 13 12:16:45 <wazd> RST38h: with rotating nub :)
Oct 13 12:16:47 <jeremiah> heh: http://www.linux-mag.com/id/7573
Oct 13 12:16:50 <tbf> Jaffa: with a Telepathy CM facebook and co would show up in the addressbook's group dialog
Oct 13 12:16:58 <jeremiah> ^^ Are app stores evil?
Oct 13 12:17:04 <jeremiah> Topical.
Oct 13 12:17:23 <tbf> jeremiah: there is an app for this!
Oct 13 12:17:30 <Jaffa> tbf: Hermes doesn't add any contacts, or touch UIDs
Oct 13 12:17:32 <jeremiah> :)
Oct 13 12:17:40 <RST38h> frals: yes it is for establishing network connection to the provider's mmsc
Oct 13 12:17:51 <Jaffa> tbf: But a Telepathy CM and then manually merging could be interesting
Oct 13 12:17:57 <frals> alright, thanks
Oct 13 12:17:58 <tbf> Jaffa: ok? thought it would. didn't try yet.
Oct 13 12:18:17 <RST38h> wazd: well, as you showed the horizontal panel, it seems more logical to go with the paper panel those old consumer radios had
Oct 13 12:18:26 <Jaffa> tbf: No, since there's pretty much no useful information (apart from some URLs and birthday and picture) that you can get from the Facebook & Twitter APIs
Oct 13 12:18:57 <tbf> Jaffa: ah, ok.
Oct 13 12:18:58 <Jaffa> tbf: So no use in creating new contacts you don't already have (unless people *want* to use Contacts to be a bookmark manager for social network URLs)
Oct 13 12:19:38 <RST38h> lardman: the libchamplain thing has already got an application for gis browsing
Oct 13 12:21:07 <lardman> is that the same stuff as the ovi maps then?
Oct 13 12:21:08 <ensi> tbf: so in order to recap in order for this application to fully support proper backup and restore it would have to interact with the /etc/ backup scripts and that would involve copying the contacts db file and starting and stopping ESD (among other things?
Oct 13 12:21:37 <RST38h> lardman: no unfortunately, more like maemo mapper
Oct 13 12:21:43 <lardman> JamieBennett: doh! just realised I had them all along on my N900, plus my Uni network is much faster, so will do it when I get back
Oct 13 12:21:51 <lardman> and try to work out the wonders of WinXP ftp client
Oct 13 12:21:59 <lardman> RST38h: ok
Oct 13 12:22:10 <JamieBennett> lardman: thanks
Oct 13 12:22:18 <lardman> RST38h: not a problem, was just interested in the ovi map stuff, but I do want a map widget for something else
Oct 13 12:22:42 <RST38h> lardman: http://www.novopia.com/emerillon/
Oct 13 12:22:54 <GeneralAntilles> Aw, rcadden wants back in the club.
Oct 13 12:23:01 <RST38h> ?
Oct 13 12:23:10 <RST38h> Somebody kicked him out or what?
Oct 13 12:23:31 <lardman> RST38h: looks cool, but might be overkill for my first bit of testing
Oct 13 12:23:51 <Jaffa> RST38h: Stormed out
Oct 13 12:24:00 <Jaffa> GeneralAntilles: He's been wanting back for ages, surely?
Oct 13 12:24:39 <RST38h> Jaffa: What was the problem? (sorry for asking)
Oct 13 12:25:09 <GeneralAntilles> http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=345281&postcount=43
Oct 13 12:25:10 <Jaffa> RST38h: Didn't think Maemo had a future
Oct 13 12:25:15 <tbf> ensi: yup, i think so
Oct 13 12:25:31 <RST38h> lardman: libchamplain probably isn't an overkill, but the emerillon is
Oct 13 12:25:34 <Jaffa> GeneralAntilles: Ah
Oct 13 12:25:44 <RST38h> lardman: Would still be nice ot see it ported of course :)
Oct 13 12:25:55 <Jaffa> Bah, Slideshare really doesn't work through our proxy :-(
Oct 13 12:26:18 <ensi> tbf: thanks a million
Oct 13 12:26:33 <RST38h> Jaffa: He still has a chance to be proven right =)
Oct 13 12:26:38 <Jaffa> RST38h: True :)
Oct 13 12:26:38 <tbf> RST38h: barisone tried to make it easily portable to fremantle
Oct 13 12:26:44 * RST38h laughes diabolically. Hello, zap
Oct 13 12:26:56 <RST38h> tbf: No success?
Oct 13 12:26:56 <zap> hello
Oct 13 12:27:15 <tbf> RST38h: he just got distracted too much after starting emerillon
Oct 13 12:27:31 <RST38h> tbf: Fame!
Oct 13 12:29:46 <lardman> hmm, one of my monitors looks very blue
Oct 13 12:30:20 <qwerty12_N810> Stop playing blue movies on it
Oct 13 12:30:43 <lcuk> tell it a joke
Oct 13 12:30:53 <lardman> hmm, vga cable falling out
Oct 13 12:32:44 <ensi> tbf: you got any idea where to start studying how to invoke the backup process (either manually through xterm) or programmatically. is there like a single "master" script how does it work?
Oct 13 12:33:12 * lardman twiddles thumbs waiting for Garage
Oct 13 12:34:14 <RST38h> Folks, I have got a question: if my project supports both Maemo4 and Maemo5, am I supposed to create a new project in Downloads?
Oct 13 12:34:18 <lardman> so did I hear correctly when a Nokian said that reverse geocoding was a service provided by a Nokia server somewhere?
Oct 13 12:34:29 <RST38h> Because the interface does not let me add more than one supported platform
Oct 13 12:34:30 <Stskeeps> probably supl
Oct 13 12:34:37 <RST38h> supl.nokia.com
Oct 13 12:34:38 <RST38h> ?
Oct 13 12:34:42 <lcuk> supl and i think it was timeless
Oct 13 12:34:54 <lardman> timeless: ping
Oct 13 12:34:55 <timeless_mbp> yes
Oct 13 12:35:05 <timeless_mbp> that's correct
Oct 13 12:35:07 <lardman> does the supl server do reverse geocoding?
Oct 13 12:35:10 <lardman> ah cool
Oct 13 12:35:11 <timeless_mbp> it does
Oct 13 12:35:14 <Jaffa> lardman: libaddress
Oct 13 12:35:15 <timeless_mbp> because that's how the camera works
Oct 13 12:35:23 <timeless_mbp> for geotagging
Oct 13 12:35:24 <lardman> libaddress, wunderbar
Oct 13 12:35:32 <Stskeeps> why can't it just tag GPS coordinatees..
Oct 13 12:35:34 <lcuk> but if timeless gets his way it will be tweaked
Oct 13 12:35:44 <timeless_mbp> lcuk: i don't have time to get my way
Oct 13 12:35:47 * timeless_mbp needs to file bugs
Oct 13 12:35:48 * lcuk nods
Oct 13 12:36:45 <lardman> Jaffa: is that on gitorious?
Oct 13 12:37:05 * lardman fires up scratchbox to see if the headers are lurking there
Oct 13 12:37:28 <Jaffa> lardman: Dunno. "libaddress" was the answer to the question that I asked on the liblocation talk; and I'm sure I'd heard of it before, too
Oct 13 12:37:29 <zaheerm> ah is that why geotagging is so fast? :)
Oct 13 12:37:42 <lardman> Jaffa: ok
Oct 13 12:37:46 <lardman> zaheerm: ;)
Oct 13 12:38:22 <Jaffa> X-Fade: Do you know how long it takes for a git push to www to appear on <project>.garage.maemo.org
Oct 13 12:38:57 <X-Fade> Jaffa: I think it is an hourly cron job.
Oct 13 12:39:13 <RST38h> X-Fade: So, what do I do about a Downloads project that supports both Maemo4 and Maemo5?
Oct 13 12:39:46 <X-Fade> RST38h: ?
Oct 13 12:40:05 <Jaffa> X-Fade: ta
Oct 13 12:40:25 <tbf> ensi: not really. guess you have to strace osso-backup or google for docs
Oct 13 12:43:08 <ensi> nice :/
Oct 13 12:43:39 <tbf> ensi: well, "strace -e exec" should tell you quickly what gets launched
Oct 13 12:43:53 <ensi> i only got backup scripts on the hw but  they wont run (at least not through the backup  application but it fails with some error)
Oct 13 12:44:47 <Jaffa> RST38h: http://www.maemo-guru.com/2008/08/tablet-guru-on-hiatus-until-further-notice/
Oct 13 12:45:57 <RST38h> X-Fade: Downloads now allows to create projects for OS2008 and Maemo5
Oct 13 12:46:09 <RST38h> X-Fade: Separate platforms.
Oct 13 12:46:23 <RST38h> X-Fade: But the problem is that you can't select two platforms for a project
Oct 13 12:46:38 <X-Fade> RST38h: They always have been separate
Oct 13 12:46:42 <RST38h> X-Fade: So, is it a bug or are we really supposed to create the second project?
Oct 13 12:47:07 <X-Fade> RST38h: What do you mean wih 'project'?
Oct 13 12:47:11 <X-Fade> *with
Oct 13 12:48:00 <RST38h> X-Fade: Let us take fmsx. There is a Downloads page for it.
Oct 13 12:48:18 <RST38h> X-Fade: It says OS2008. If I have now got VGBA for Maemo5, what do I do?
Oct 13 12:48:26 <X-Fade> RST38h: Nothing
Oct 13 12:48:51 <X-Fade> RST38h: Maemo 5 version will be created automatically when it ends up in extras.
Oct 13 12:49:14 <RST38h> X-Fade: Will it become a copy of Maemo4? And how do I manage them?
Oct 13 12:49:24 <X-Fade> RST38h: No, it will copy from packages.
Oct 13 12:49:34 <X-Fade> RST38h: All info there will be copied
Oct 13 12:49:44 <RST38h> ok
Oct 13 12:49:56 <X-Fade> RST38h: So make sure your package contains all the right info.
Oct 13 12:50:13 <lardman> Stskeeps: do you plan/envisage clutter support for the old devices?
Oct 13 12:50:13 <RST38h> it does.
Oct 13 12:50:13 <X-Fade> RST38h: And of course you need to manually add a screenshot when it is in Downloads.
Oct 13 12:50:24 <RST38h> yea
Oct 13 12:50:25 <X-Fade> RST38h: Then you are all set.
Oct 13 12:50:42 <RST38h> which is probably never given the current extras promotion scheme :(
Oct 13 12:50:46 <Stskeeps> lardman: for N8x0? of course
Oct 13 12:50:54 <X-Fade> RST38h: I missed you at the round-table
Oct 13 12:50:58 <lardman> Stskeeps: I thought so, just checking...
Oct 13 12:53:13 <RST38h> X-Fade: Sorry, probably ended up attending something else
Oct 13 12:53:38 <RST38h> it was often a difficult choice =)
Oct 13 12:53:39 <lardman> interesting, clutter 0.8 and 1.0 are on-device
Oct 13 12:53:47 <Ceron^> http://content.yieldmanager.edgesuite.net/ct/sf/1f/8f/1f8f4f145df4f06400cb4f40bdd29629.gif
Oct 13 12:53:54 <lardman> one for Python, one for the rest?
Oct 13 12:54:29 <RST38h> hmmm...why would it need a different one?
Oct 13 12:55:09 <lardman> prob not, was just looking at which versions of libchamplain support python, was some issue with clutter, but looks to be sorted now
Oct 13 12:55:17 <lardman> so I don't know
Oct 13 13:04:13 <lardman> bbiab
Oct 13 13:07:32 * timeless_mbp sighs
Oct 13 13:19:24 <zgold_> crashanddie: is this US/EU/?
Oct 13 13:19:53 <zgold_> (the t-mobile conversation)
Oct 13 13:21:21 <SpeedEvil> Does the camera app by default fill in the GPS exif - if the GPS is on?
Oct 13 13:21:42 <RST38h> it will turn on the gps
Oct 13 13:21:57 <RST38h> if you have geotags enabled of course
Oct 13 13:23:45 <lardman> re
Oct 13 13:24:12 <lardman> I can't find any libs called libaddress
Oct 13 13:28:33 <jeremiah> "Enable RD mode" ?
Oct 13 13:28:48 <jeremiah> if you want to break your device
Oct 13 13:29:05 <lardman> jeremiah: old page text
Oct 13 13:29:05 <RST38h> http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/zachary-christie-suspended-bringing-camping-utensil-school/story?id=8812939
Oct 13 13:29:31 <jeremiah> So why is 'sudo gainroot' spitting that out at me?
Oct 13 13:29:42 <X-Fade> jeremiah: install rootsh
Oct 13 13:29:45 <Stskeeps> jeremiah: because you didn't install rootsh
Oct 13 13:29:50 <jeremiah> ah
Oct 13 13:30:01 * jeremiah goes and installs rootsh
Oct 13 13:30:10 <crashanddie> zgold_: eh?
Oct 13 13:30:11 <X-Fade> jeremiah: It is about as bad a warning as debian does when doing sudo su ;)
Oct 13 13:30:28 <jeremiah> heh, :P
Oct 13 13:30:39 <jaska> why sudo su anyway? why not sudo -s?:)
Oct 13 13:30:45 <X-Fade> BIG FAT WARNING :)
Oct 13 13:31:15 * RST38h yawns and types ssh root@localhost
Oct 13 13:31:15 <jeremiah> I like sudo su since it logs a lot of good stuff to /var/log/auth.log
Oct 13 13:32:03 <jeremiah> RST38h: "ssh: not found"
Oct 13 13:32:53 <RST38h> jeremiah: then install it
Oct 13 13:33:03 <RST38h> it is in the extras
Oct 13 13:37:54 <RST38h> ab: Hello?
Oct 13 13:38:06 <ab> RST38h, hey
Oct 13 13:38:16 <RST38h> ab: Ready to take a look at the Spacic stuff?
Oct 13 13:38:35 <ab> RST38h, yep, have links?
Oct 13 13:38:52 <RST38h> ab: /msg me your email address, then we will have to spend ~15 minutes going over the code
Oct 13 13:39:05 <ab> RST38h, you have my email
Oct 13 13:39:48 <lardman> JamieBennett: still copying from N900 to PC, ~17min to go it reckons
Oct 13 13:40:08 <fiferboy> hey lardman
Oct 13 13:40:17 <JamieBennett> lardman: thanks
Oct 13 13:40:17 <RST38h> ab: Not really =)
Oct 13 13:40:26 <lardman> crap spoke too soon, just run out of space
Oct 13 13:40:31 <lardman> perfect timing
Oct 13 13:41:39 <zerojayn900> extras-devel's release file is broken again.
Oct 13 13:41:59 <zerojayn900> and changing preferences in xchat causes a segfault.
Oct 13 13:42:00 <jeremiah> yeah, I noticed that too.
Oct 13 13:42:18 <X-Fade> Damn racecondition because of load.
Oct 13 13:42:18 <jeremiah> i.e. extras-testing's release file.
Oct 13 13:42:36 <qwerty12_N810> zerojayn900: My fault, a downgrade is probably best ATM
Oct 13 13:42:41 <clmntch> good morning
Oct 13 13:43:23 <jeremiah> clmntch: Good afternoon. :) (here anyway it is afternoon - I guess you are on the other side of the Atlantic)
Oct 13 13:43:39 <clmntch> yes
Oct 13 13:44:09 <clmntch> it's not early enough to say good mornng, but it's morning to me
Oct 13 13:44:13 <zerojayn900> x-fade: got the invite now, btw. thanks.
Oct 13 13:44:31 <jeremiah> clmntch: :)
Oct 13 13:44:35 <X-Fade> zerojayn900: good
Oct 13 13:52:42 <epictetus> are you guys excited about n900
Oct 13 13:52:55 <X-Fade> epictetus: We all have one already ;)
Oct 13 13:53:09 <Anunakin> me not
Oct 13 13:53:18 <Anunakin> :-(
Oct 13 13:53:18 * SpeedEvil not either.
Oct 13 13:53:22 * SpeedEvil will not be getting one.
Oct 13 13:53:23 * Corsac either
Oct 13 13:53:30 <SpeedEvil> Owing to the whole needing to eat thing.
Oct 13 13:53:33 <Corsac> we still don't have any official release date either :)
Oct 13 13:53:54 <X-Fade> Corsac: Well the month is getting shorter and shorter.
Oct 13 13:54:03 <zerojayn900> nokia doesn't do that.
Oct 13 13:54:05 <Fargus> Anyone know the state of RTCOMM on Maemo 5?
Oct 13 13:54:35 <zerojayn900> yes. what do you wanna know?
Oct 13 13:55:06 <Fargus> Was wondering if it was running stable enough to play with yet ?
Oct 13 13:55:28 <GeneralAntilles> epictetus, don't let them fool you. They have N900s too. :P
Oct 13 13:55:32 <Fargus> Not had time to do much play yet but that would save me running pidgin up all the time and a simple one to test to hell
Oct 13 13:55:48 <GeneralAntilles> Fargus, yes, there's no need for Pidgin.
Oct 13 13:56:05 <Fargus> At last!
Oct 13 13:56:15 <Fargus> Know it solved a lot of problems but ate resources!
Oct 13 13:56:24 <zerojayn900> for the most part, its stable.
Oct 13 13:56:26 <Fargus> Ta for that GA! Will go apt get now! :)
Oct 13 13:56:30 <Fargus> oop
Oct 13 13:56:33 <Fargus> oops
Oct 13 13:56:33 <zerojayn900> msn likes to die.
Oct 13 13:56:33 <Fargus> lol
Oct 13 13:56:46 <zerojayn900> install telepathy-extras.
Oct 13 13:56:48 <Fargus> Ah well as long as it doesn't brick things too quickly be able to get some testing in
Oct 13 13:57:03 <Fargus> MSN likes to die with MS client so that nothing new
Oct 13 13:57:20 <Fargus> I'm more interested in IRC/ICQ and Yahoo at mo
Oct 13 13:57:36 <Fargus> but thanks for the heads up - assume Jabber fairly stable though?
Oct 13 13:57:47 <X-Fade> IRC doesn't make much sense in RTCOMM.
Oct 13 13:58:06 <Fargus> legacy code that I wanted ot play with - someone else using RTCOMM as a hook
Oct 13 13:58:07 <zerojayn900> irc doesn't work.
Oct 13 13:58:17 <Fargus> bugger
Oct 13 13:58:24 <zerojayn900> multiuser chat ui is gone.
Oct 13 13:58:41 <Fargus> So have to have a single thread for each contact?
Oct 13 13:58:57 <GeneralAntilles> XCaht for IRC
Oct 13 13:59:01 <Stskeeps> zerojayn900: i had multiuser chat in skype though
Oct 13 13:59:03 * javispedro likes recent bugzilla activity. thanks andre!
Oct 13 13:59:12 <Fargus> Using xChat at mo but wanted as little clutter as possible
Oct 13 13:59:12 <lardman> msn is so gay
Oct 13 13:59:25 <zerojayn900> stskeeps, its what we were told.
Oct 13 13:59:28 <lardman> I've just updated and now I can't log in with the Nxxx any more and stay logged in
Oct 13 13:59:35 <Fargus> Cheers peeps - off to go play now
Oct 13 13:59:41 <RST38h> IRC in RTCOMM makes sense as long as you send.receive private messages
Oct 13 13:59:42 <amr> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Nokia-NOKIA-CHARGER-ADAPTOR-CA-44/dp/B000QRODF0 - this is the charger adaptor for the tablet isnt it?
Oct 13 13:59:48 <RST38h> Which is what modern IM is about anyway
Oct 13 13:59:51 <amr> i actually cannot find it ANYwhere
Oct 13 13:59:53 <Fargus> lardman - my n810 stays on for at least a couple of hours without disconnect
Oct 13 14:00:15 <lardman> Fargus: I updated my Windows box version, now it logs out when I connect N900
Oct 13 14:00:19 <X-Fade> amr: for N8xx yes
Oct 13 14:00:22 <amr> sweet, thanks
Oct 13 14:00:30 <Fargus> Thanks RST38h - was what I was after - actually process to process comms
Oct 13 14:00:36 <lardman> can someone tell me what my IM status message says please?
Oct 13 14:00:37 <amr> i just know as soon as i purchase it, i'll find mine in a drawer or something
Oct 13 14:01:16 <X-Fade> N900 has a nice one in the box. But then for all old nokia chargers to micro usb.
Oct 13 14:01:25 <Fargus> Cheers guys - off to go play and file bug reports now! ttfn
Oct 13 14:01:35 <RST38h> lardman: "Another ViRC 2.0 user"
Oct 13 14:01:40 * RST38h cackles
Oct 13 14:01:47 <lardman> RST38h: ah no, I meant on Google talk
Oct 13 14:01:50 <lardman> sorry
Oct 13 14:05:17 <GeneralAntilles> Ah, yes, "butt ugly" always productive.
Oct 13 14:05:26 <zerojayn900> does gtalk show location info?
Oct 13 14:06:16 <RST38h> if you choose to share it it does
Oct 13 14:07:20 <X-Fade> As comment it seems.
Oct 13 14:07:26 <X-Fade> Not sure if it uses http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0080.html
Oct 13 14:07:43 <zaheerm> no it doesn't
Oct 13 14:07:56 <X-Fade> Would be cool if it did though ;)
Oct 13 14:08:18 <zaheerm> yah, you have to run your own jabberd to have it, most don't support it
Oct 13 14:08:24 <RST38h> Isn't Google Latitude about sharing location?
Oct 13 14:08:34 <zaheerm> it was mentioned at telepathy talk at maemo summit
Oct 13 14:08:42 <X-Fade> zaheerm: Hmm..
Oct 13 14:09:06 <zaheerm> so the teleptahy stuff fiddle with the status for geolocation
Oct 13 14:09:40 <X-Fade> Implementing it should not be that hard. But it would be nice if servers supported it ;)
Oct 13 14:09:41 <lardman> I'm just hacking together a quick Friend finder app, would have been useful for the summit
Oct 13 14:10:02 <RST38h> ah
Oct 13 14:10:06 <lardman> not sure what to do about the location info though, shame the lat/long isn't provided directly
Oct 13 14:10:21 <RST38h> Make it possible to shoot friends with IR module once you find them
Oct 13 14:10:25 <X-Fade> lardman: Parse it?
Oct 13 14:10:33 <lardman> so reverse geocode might be the only way; though also some location accuracy data will be necessary to be really useful
Oct 13 14:10:43 <lardman> X-Fade: doh!
Oct 13 14:10:55 <lardman> X-Fade: I meant that a lat/long would be more useful
Oct 13 14:11:01 <X-Fade> lardman: hehe ;)
Oct 13 14:11:13 <X-Fade> There is this site that does that for you.
Oct 13 14:11:36 <lardman> the reverse geocoding, yep
Oct 13 14:12:16 <crashanddie> ~ping
Oct 13 14:12:17 <infobot> ~pong
Oct 13 14:12:51 <X-Fade> http://www.geonames.org/
Oct 13 14:13:56 <lardman> yeah, that looks like the one
Oct 13 14:14:30 <javispedro> wow. I can put in the "patch" permission by myself in bugzilla.
Oct 13 14:14:33 * javispedro feels like an idiot now
Oct 13 14:15:22 <RST38h> heh
Oct 13 14:15:37 <RST38h> javis: DrNokSnes eats battery when the tablet is locked btw
Oct 13 14:15:49 <RST38h> javis: You may want to block execution
Oct 13 14:16:18 <javispedro> that may be easy if the dbus event is captured by hgw, which I don't know.
Oct 13 14:18:21 <javispedro> system_inactivity_ind, ok.
Oct 13 14:19:00 <javispedro> BTW, it already dumps a freeze file if the battery runs out. Never tried though ;)
Oct 13 14:19:07 <Ceron^> is there a working google earth for maemo5?
Oct 13 14:19:11 <Ceron^> n900
Oct 13 14:19:11 <RST38h> Wow...
Oct 13 14:19:18 <Ceron^> iphone has google earth
Oct 13 14:19:42 <suihkulokki> ask google, not us...
Oct 13 14:23:28 <lcuk> lardman, LAN based, not internet
Oct 13 14:23:39 <lcuk> broadcast
Oct 13 14:23:45 <lcuk> "hello, im lardman"
Oct 13 14:23:51 <lcuk> on the ap
Oct 13 14:23:58 <nicktastic> I've installed OS 2008 on my N770 and it appears to be using Linux 2.6.16. Shouldn't it be using 2.6.21?
Oct 13 14:24:01 <lcuk> anyone else on same ap can see you
Oct 13 14:24:20 <lardman> yeah, but I want to know which pub people are in
Oct 13 14:24:31 <lcuk> the same one as you if they are on same ap usually
Oct 13 14:24:40 <lardman> indeed....
Oct 13 14:25:02 <lardman> not all that useful for this use-case, but fine once I find them and want to share videos of Qole singing, etc
Oct 13 14:25:11 <lcuk> hah
Oct 13 14:25:38 <lcuk> it wouldv been good to use at the tracks
Oct 13 14:25:43 <lcuk> to know who was in which room
Oct 13 14:25:52 * lcuk was trying to code it up
Oct 13 14:26:55 <lardman> a Nokian said they would implement wifi ap recognition iirc, so that could be used as part of thier location framework, just needs to transmit the lat/long + lock quality
Oct 13 14:26:57 <lcuk> lardman, a step up from there could be one machine pushing these lists to the internet
Oct 13 14:27:26 <lardman> I'd prefer to piggy back on something everone already has - IM
Oct 13 14:28:29 <javispedro> RST38h: nah, hard. actually hgw gets the display off and inactivity signals only, but not the "locked" one. If I listen to the inactivity signal the game would pause itself every too much often.
Oct 13 14:29:49 <RST38h> javis: display off is sufficient afaik
Oct 13 14:30:11 <crashanddie> lardman: automate the status update with the name of the room, could be done with Skype/Jabber
Oct 13 14:30:11 <RST38h> javis: you are not playing when the display is off, are you?
Oct 13 14:30:37 <javispedro> RST38h: yes.
Oct 13 14:30:50 <javispedro> most inefficient spc player ever done, I know.
Oct 13 14:31:01 <lardman> crashanddie: if you have ap triangulation/etc., could just return very accurate lat/long and see where they are on a map, less complicated
Oct 13 14:31:12 <javispedro> so if you want I can just force enable frameskipping...
Oct 13 14:31:13 <RST38h> heh
Oct 13 14:31:15 <javispedro> well, or make it user selectable.
Oct 13 14:31:36 <RST38h> javis: I do not think this will reduce battery drain
Oct 13 14:31:46 <crashanddie> lardman: how would you have triangulation? Getting signal strength from wifi from multiple APs is very hard and inaccurate
Oct 13 14:32:05 <lcuk> lardman, "simon arrived at the n900 party"    "simon left the n900 party"
Oct 13 14:32:13 <RST38h> javis: I currently added while(FocusOut) gtk_main_loop_do(TRUE); to the code, this will block until the focus is back in
Oct 13 14:32:17 <crashanddie> lardman: 2.4Ghz just doesn't lend itself that well for those kind of experiments
Oct 13 14:32:32 <lcuk> someone just has to make a beacon to indicate the event type
Oct 13 14:32:33 <crashanddie> lardman: turn on a microwave and everyone just teleported themselves 2 miles north
Oct 13 14:33:02 <crashanddie> RST38h: wouldn't that be the other way around?
Oct 13 14:33:08 <lcuk> once the beacon is switched off your IM stops sending those messages cos theres no trigger
Oct 13 14:33:11 <RST38h> javis: it looks like the focus does go out when the device turns its screen off
Oct 13 14:33:16 <javispedro> RST38h: SDL and battery savings never play along.
Oct 13 14:33:26 <javispedro> only way would be to flush freeze state and quit.
Oct 13 14:33:47 <RST38h> javis: There is another way
Oct 13 14:34:01 <RST38h> javis: You still have functions that are called periodically even with the SDL
Oct 13 14:34:19 <RST38h> javis: You can check for device activity in any of these functions and block there
Oct 13 14:34:23 <kirma> nokia research center has certainly looked at the subject of wlan indoor positioning. last time I checked, their system was capable of at maximum per-room resolution, and was based on arduous manually defined coverage areas...
Oct 13 14:34:24 <javispedro> I need to read if Fremantle SDL still has that 10ms tick
Oct 13 14:34:27 <RST38h> javis: SDL or no SDL, this will work
Oct 13 14:34:35 <kirma> but that's over a year ago.
Oct 13 14:34:44 <RST38h> kirma: Did that back at the university. Does not work well.
Oct 13 14:34:55 <RST38h> kirma: In fact we did it more like 5-6 years ago :)
Oct 13 14:34:56 <kirma> I know...
Oct 13 14:35:26 <crashanddie> just use directional antennas from the top of the room that goes straight down, irradiating the floor below
Oct 13 14:35:29 <kirma> nothing new really. the "new" part was that nokia was interested pushing indoor positioning applications to regular phones.
Oct 13 14:35:38 <crashanddie> that way you don't get wifi leaks that would result in false positives
Oct 13 14:36:08 <lcuk> why are you trying to do it with gps - an event can occur in multiple zones
Oct 13 14:36:31 <lcuk> its the event thats important, not the location (thou events can exist over very long timespans)
Oct 13 14:36:34 <crashanddie> make sure you have wifi all over the place, and that transitioning from one room to the other doesn't cause a wifi-bloop like we had at this summit
Oct 13 14:36:42 <RST38h> kirma: The best bet would be tagging
Oct 13 14:36:46 <ShadowJK> Kirma: iirc nokia did some live experiment with indoor positioning at that big mall in helsinki recently?
Oct 13 14:36:54 <RST38h> kirma: Either RFIDs or reflective IR tags
Oct 13 14:37:08 <kirma> shadowjk: yes, I think kamppi.mobi or something might have it.
Oct 13 14:37:16 <ShadowJK> Iirc you were supposed to visit some website with s60 browser
Oct 13 14:37:16 <crashanddie> you know where each AP is. Simply have a machine look at all the traffic, and look which device is coming from which mac address
Oct 13 14:37:35 <lcuk> hide an n900 with adhoc enabled at the top of everest and let people come and join the event
Oct 13 14:37:38 <kirma> they have been experimenting it quite a time earlier on their own buildings though as far as I understood, or dare to disclose.
Oct 13 14:37:43 <lardman> tbh if I'm at a party and know someone else is nearby I can just walk around and find them, I don't need to know exactly where they are (unless they are at the bar)
Oct 13 14:37:59 <crashanddie> lardman: my point exactly
Oct 13 14:38:01 <lcuk> lardman, browse other events
Oct 13 14:38:02 <lardman> my interest is more in making it easier for people to find one another in town, etc
Oct 13 14:38:12 <crashanddie> lardman: you don't need "to the meter" precision, just a rough location so you can try to find them
Oct 13 14:38:13 <RST38h> lardman: Google Latitude
Oct 13 14:38:23 <lardman> crashanddie: yep
Oct 13 14:38:40 <crashanddie> it was always a pain, having to wait for people, or getting somewhere and the people had already left
Oct 13 14:38:42 <RST38h> lardman: Or use larger payloads, a 100Mt one will generally not require positioning
Oct 13 14:38:43 <lardman> RST38h: exactly
Oct 13 14:38:59 <crashanddie> RST38h: lmao
Oct 13 14:39:18 <RST38h> openMoko is still alive and producing hardware!
Oct 13 14:39:21 <kirma> with precise delay measurement, slightly augmented wlan base station group could perform amazingly precise positioning, but that would be, first of all, a network service, and secondly, would need to be implemented...
Oct 13 14:39:38 <RST38h> $99 WikiReader!
Oct 13 14:39:43 <kirma> just look how poorly network-based positioning technologies have catched on in GSM networks. :/
Oct 13 14:40:03 <RST38h> kirma: They have caught pretty well in Moscow
Oct 13 14:40:22 <RST38h> kirma: both Google Maps and yandex Maps will happily locate you in the city, without GPS
Oct 13 14:40:35 <lardman> using IP address?
Oct 13 14:40:43 <RST38h> No, using cell IDs
Oct 13 14:40:51 <lardman> ok, but we already have that
Oct 13 14:40:59 <RST38h> Exactly
Oct 13 14:41:01 <kirma> RST38h: but I suppose that's cell location, not stuff like network delays etc, that are theoretically existing technologies
Oct 13 14:41:10 <ShadowJK> Nokia maps on s60ed3fp2 iirc does network based positioning first while waiting for gps lock :)
Oct 13 14:41:15 <kirma> cell location databases don't require base station support
Oct 13 14:41:17 <RST38h> kirma: No, because the network delays stuff is damn unreliable
Oct 13 14:41:33 <RST38h> kirma: Well, they seem to do some triangulation as well
Oct 13 14:42:13 <RST38h> kirma: But if you are receiving a reflected signal (especially true outdoors or in urban setting) there go your signal delays
Oct 13 14:42:41 <kirma> RST38h: well, regarding delays I mean the real radio delays measured with well synchronized base station clocks
Oct 13 14:43:38 <RST38h> yes, I understand
Oct 13 14:43:54 <kirma> well, of course you would need redundancy to work that out. I think all of this would work in wlan setting much better than with GSM/3G
Oct 13 14:43:55 <RST38h> they still do not work very well inside concrete labyrinths =9
Oct 13 14:44:01 <solarion> clocks suck
Oct 13 14:44:19 <solarion> most of 'em aren't even right twice a day
Oct 13 14:44:31 <RST38h> or half the day :)
Oct 13 14:44:33 <solarion> but yet they rule your life
Oct 13 14:44:55 <RST38h> DESTROY THEM ALL WHILE YOu CAN
Oct 13 14:45:01 <solarion> how often dos karma get retabulated?
Oct 13 14:45:07 <lardman> again, even inside a city, once you are within a street or two you can always look at the map and ask your friend to tell you their exact address, unless of course you're stalking someone
Oct 13 14:45:43 <RST38h> lardman: In short: friend location by map is rarely useful
Oct 13 14:46:00 <RST38h> So are computer based maps, if you have got a paper one :)
Oct 13 14:46:10 <lardman> hmm, would have been in Amsterdam, assming it could locate to within a street or two
Oct 13 14:46:46 <AndrewFBlack> does anyone have or can anyone get a copy of the Fremantle Default gtk-2.0 file I need to debug someones theme for and I think there problem is in there.
Oct 13 14:47:22 <orbarron> morning all
Oct 13 14:47:50 <kirma> interesting locationing network support would be if wlan client node could request a wlan base station to send the node-specific time timestamp when it received specific locationing packet... and for the same packet, information from multiple base stations could be combined with their ideas about the relative timescales between neighbors and their coordinate information
Oct 13 14:48:31 <RST38h> kirma: Can it be done within the current MAC protocol?
Oct 13 14:52:01 <kirma> to me, it doesn't sound like an extremely hard or kludgy feature to implement on the hardware/station microcontroller, but it should get some acceptance to get implemented :)
Oct 13 14:52:23 <solarion> does maemo have gio, particularly the ssh: url?
Oct 13 14:56:04 <kirma> the things, in addition to software parts it requires (which would be relatively simple) would be ability to send packets with precise delay and to timestamp them reliably by hardware on reception. I kind of think current base station chipsets could support it straight away with suitable firmware code if device manufacturers were interested.
Oct 13 15:01:12 <X-Fade> lardman: ping
Oct 13 15:01:20 <lardman> X-Fade: pong
Oct 13 15:01:41 <X-Fade> lardman: Just to be sure, you know about liblocation, right?
Oct 13 15:02:12 <lardman> yes, but it doesn't do reverse geocoding afaik
Oct 13 15:03:25 <lardman> it does pass back fix quality info though, but one thing at a time
Oct 13 15:03:50 <lardman> proof of concept using that website for the reverse geocoding, then look at how to improve things
Oct 13 15:03:55 <X-Fade> lardman: yeah indeed. Something else seems to do the street thing.
Oct 13 15:04:22 <lardman> supl was mentioned before
Oct 13 15:06:12 <X-Fade> lardman: http://maemo.org/api_refs/5.0/beta/libcityinfo/
Oct 13 15:06:22 <lardman> no, not the right thing
Oct 13 15:06:34 <lardman> returns info about a city, including position on the world map
Oct 13 15:07:01 <X-Fade> Well that helps you a bit with geocoding ;)
Oct 13 15:07:12 <lardman> (should probably return a lat/long and have another fn to convert that to world map offsets, would make it more useful for other people then)
Oct 13 15:07:46 <lardman> X-Fade: I'm relying on the built-in stuff to do the geocoding for me ;)
Oct 13 15:08:17 <X-Fade> Indeed, seems that cityinfo is used for the clock.
Oct 13 15:12:05 <lardman> come on Garage!
Oct 13 15:12:14 <lardman> twiddle, twiddle, twiddle
Oct 13 15:12:25 <lardman> all those Symbianites downloading Python I bet ;)
Oct 13 15:13:24 <X-Fade> 25 is the number you are looking for ;)
Oct 13 15:13:41 <lardman> :)
Oct 13 15:13:52 <wirelessdreamer> anyone with a trial n900 try out usb host support yet?
Oct 13 15:15:22 <javispedro> Python I lol.
Oct 13 15:15:45 <javispedro> (na, just remembered me certain sketch...)
Oct 13 15:20:39 <johnsq> Hi
Oct 13 15:24:04 <javispedro> hiyo johnq
Oct 13 15:24:17 <lardman> JamieBennett: ping
Oct 13 15:24:18 <javispedro> er..johnsq (damn tab completion)
Oct 13 15:25:06 <zaheerm> the version stuff in settings, general, about device
Oct 13 15:25:10 <zaheerm> where does it get it from?
Oct 13 15:25:32 <zaheerm> my wife's n900 has (null) there, noticed when she reported a bug
Oct 13 15:25:47 <solarion> zaheerm!
Oct 13 15:26:15 <solarion> zaheerm: are you the gupnp guy?
Oct 13 15:26:19 <zaheerm> no
Oct 13 15:26:21 <zaheerm> that is zeenix
Oct 13 15:26:30 <solarion> ah, the z confused me
Oct 13 15:26:36 <zaheerm> lots of people get us confused
Oct 13 15:26:39 <solarion> I think I know you, tho
Oct 13 15:26:45 <zaheerm> possibly
Oct 13 15:26:49 <zaheerm> i work on gstreamer
Oct 13 15:26:52 <solarion> ah
Oct 13 15:27:00 <solarion> and #gnome-hackers. :)
Oct 13 15:27:19 <solarion> so, back to it. Zaheerm! :)
Oct 13 15:27:23 <zaheerm> solarion, aah :)
Oct 13 15:28:05 <solarion> how hard is it to put a video into a widget?
Oct 13 15:28:11 <zaheerm> easy
Oct 13 15:28:23 <solarion> is it better to use clutter?
Oct 13 15:29:06 <zaheerm> depends if you want to do anything funky with the video
Oct 13 15:29:20 <zaheerm> xvimagesink will probably work for most use cases
Oct 13 15:30:02 <zaheerm> if you want to composite on top of the video, rotate the video, do animations with it then clutter will be a good fit
Oct 13 15:30:06 <solarion> xvimagesink is a gtk widget?
Oct 13 15:30:15 <zaheerm> xvimagesink is a gstreamer element
Oct 13 15:30:28 <solarion> how does it hook into gtk+?
Oct 13 15:30:29 <zaheerm> which you can embed in say a GtkDrawingArea or other gtk widget
Oct 13 15:30:57 <andre__> err, what is the "Rubber-banding effect" in Maemo5?
Oct 13 15:31:01 <zgold_> zaheerm: i think that it'd be awesome if you could put up a sample widget that does that on the wiki
Oct 13 15:31:08 <solarion> ah
Oct 13 15:31:10 * andre__ gets lost in wordings
Oct 13 15:31:37 * solarion hopes he can afford an n900; the likelihood of a dev discount is very low. :(
Oct 13 15:31:47 <lardman> andre__: when a kinetic scrolling list reaches the end and bounces back
Oct 13 15:31:52 <solarion> maye if t-mobie bundles it
Oct 13 15:32:12 <solarion> zaheerm: I second zgold's idea
Oct 13 15:32:19 <andre__> lardman, ahhhh!
Oct 13 15:32:19 <andre__> thanks
Oct 13 15:32:23 <lardman> zgold_: which lang do you want?
Oct 13 15:32:38 <zaheerm> zgold_, sure
Oct 13 15:32:44 <lardman> andre__: and also when you grab the list and pull it too far and it springs back, etc
Oct 13 15:33:05 <zgold_> lardman: c/python, anything works
Oct 13 15:33:05 <lardman> zgold_: maemo camera does this
Oct 13 15:33:16 <lardman> I can give you Python or C, whichever you want
Oct 13 15:33:27 <lardman> maemo-barcode basically, with everything scraped out
Oct 13 15:33:28 <zgold_> why not both?
Oct 13 15:33:44 <lardman> more work for me to scrape, but if you want both that's not a big issue
Oct 13 15:35:09 <zaheerm> lardman may be a better guy to provide it, i haven't used video inside maemo yet
Oct 13 15:35:11 <DocScrutinizer> kirma: refer to GSM TimeAdvance for basics about delay-based distance to AP/BTS. Also be aware 1m of precision means a resolution of ~3*10^-9sec. And atm 802.11 OTA prot doesn't support any timeslice scheme to base such delay measurement on
Oct 13 15:35:45 <zaheerm> do we not have a HildonVideoWidget ?
Oct 13 15:35:53 <lardman> no idea
Oct 13 15:36:02 <lardman> I just went with the maemo camera app and hacked at it
Oct 13 15:37:13 <Ceron^> http://zip.4chan.org/o/src/1255417524674.jpg boobs(nsfw) n900 roadmap is bumpy enough
Oct 13 15:37:27 <DocScrutinizer> kirma: see http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/openmoko-kernel/2008-April/002434.html if you're interested in more info and links
Oct 13 15:38:09 <DocScrutinizer> kirma: and especially http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/openmoko-kernel/2008-June/002987.html
Oct 13 15:40:43 <johnsq> nice hacks
Oct 13 15:40:44 <lardman> zgold_: am heading home now, ping me when I come back online (likely to be 30min or so) and I'll dig out some code for you
Oct 13 15:41:01 <zgold_> lardman: cool, tks
Oct 13 15:49:58 <zeenix> solarion: anything you wanted to saw to me? :)
Oct 13 15:50:02 <zeenix> s/saw/say/
Oct 13 15:50:03 <infobot> zeenix meant: solarion: anything you wanted to say to me? :)
Oct 13 15:50:26 <Gnuton> hi
Oct 13 15:50:45 <solarion> zeenix: gupnp is aweome? :)
Oct 13 15:51:01 <solarion> zeenix: thanks for your hard work.
Oct 13 15:53:03 <zeenix> solarion: always glad to hear some appreciation, thanks :)
Oct 13 16:00:49 <bfrog> any chance maemo 6 will run on n900 for sure?
Oct 13 16:01:08 <bfrog> I'm not going to get n900 unless it can run maemo 6, no point
Oct 13 16:01:09 <Stskeeps> there's always Mer if nokia doesn't want to support it :P
Oct 13 16:01:38 <range> Dealbreaker!
Oct 13 16:01:44 <glass__> how much you know of m6 anyhow
Oct 13 16:01:44 <bfrog> yeah
Oct 13 16:01:52 <bfrog> not going to buy it then
Oct 13 16:01:53 <glass__> m5 is barely out?
Oct 13 16:02:09 <Stskeeps> bfrog: noone knows if it runs maemo 6
Oct 13 16:02:17 <luke-jr> bfrog: look at Nokia's history. they don't support devices even up till the next model
Oct 13 16:02:19 <bfrog> the only reason I'd buy a nokia phone is if it were based on Qt, so nice to program with
Oct 13 16:02:20 <Stskeeps> basically, it is OMAP3, GLES based
Oct 13 16:02:20 <ccooke> bfrog: I doubt nokia know yet.
Oct 13 16:02:29 <Stskeeps> and so is maemo6
Oct 13 16:02:30 <Stskeeps> so it -could- technically
Oct 13 16:02:46 <luke-jr> bfrog: if Nokia bothers to donate a N900 to me, I'll get Gentoo w/ KDE up on it
Oct 13 16:02:46 <Stskeeps> bfrog: noone knows if it runs maemo 6 basically. nor does nokia.
Oct 13 16:02:51 <bfrog> yeah but the whole resistive vs capacitive touch screen or whatever
Oct 13 16:02:54 <ccooke> There will definitely be features of maemo6 that the n900 cannot support - multitouch and drm, for instance
Oct 13 16:03:08 <ccooke> (the drm will require hardware support that is not present in the n900)
Oct 13 16:03:11 <bfrog> drm... ?
Oct 13 16:03:14 <Stskeeps> but most interaction is singletouch
Oct 13 16:03:30 <bfrog> what do they need drm for? drm is evil evil evil
Oct 13 16:03:37 <Corsac> ccooke: ha, I didn't notice that
Oct 13 16:03:42 <Stskeeps> nokia's DRM is less evil.
Oct 13 16:03:42 <SpeedEvil> DRM not under the control of the user is evil.
Oct 13 16:03:53 <bfrog> thats pretty much all drm
Oct 13 16:03:55 <SpeedEvil> DRM can also mean nobody can use your stolen phone.
Oct 13 16:04:01 <Corsac> ccooke: so all the security architecture won't be available *at all* for n900?
Oct 13 16:04:02 <SpeedEvil> Even if they reflash it.
Oct 13 16:04:04 <Stskeeps> or hardware enforced security
Oct 13 16:04:04 <SpeedEvil> Done right
Oct 13 16:04:12 <Corsac> ccooke: doesn't this mean that n900 won't have maemo6?
Oct 13 16:04:16 <EspadaV8> if you don't like drm, don't use anything that comes with it, surely?
Oct 13 16:04:16 <bfrog> drm inherently means you don't have real ownership
Oct 13 16:04:23 <ccooke> Corsac: unless there's hardware we don't know about. Which there may be.
Oct 13 16:04:24 <SpeedEvil> bfrog: No, it doesn't.
Oct 13 16:04:27 <EspadaV8> just use the free apps?
Oct 13 16:04:29 <ccooke> Corsac: even that doesn't follow.
Oct 13 16:04:33 <luke-jr> bfrog: that's always been the case with NITs
Oct 13 16:04:37 <ccooke> Nokia said there'd always be an open mode
Oct 13 16:04:41 <|R> If the next n9x0 has a TPM chip and we can run it openly without caring for DRM and use it to secure encryption process for our own good, then yé!
Oct 13 16:04:42 <zaheerm> well ovi store and stuff is coming for maemo05, so not sure re: drm what they will do for ovi store
Oct 13 16:04:43 <bfrog> I go buy a cd, I can do whatever the hell I want, some drm'd crap has all sorts of odd restrictions
Oct 13 16:04:44 <SpeedEvil> bfrog: Much like locks don't mean you have less freedom in your house.
Oct 13 16:04:49 <ccooke> The n900 would, therefore, be in that mode all the time
Oct 13 16:04:55 <luke-jr> bfrog: even without DRM, the specs are missing
Oct 13 16:05:00 <Corsac> ccooke: yeah but I'm interested in the security architecture for personal stuff
Oct 13 16:05:06 <Corsac> well, personal/corporate
Oct 13 16:05:07 <ccooke> So am I
Oct 13 16:05:12 <ccooke> it's a nice architecture on paper
Oct 13 16:05:16 <bfrog> so basically there's no point in buying a n900 then
Oct 13 16:05:25 <bfrog> why'd nokia even bother making it then
Oct 13 16:05:28 <luke-jr> bfrog: #FreeHandheld ;)
Oct 13 16:05:32 <ccooke> bfrog: that's entirely up to you.
Oct 13 16:05:33 <Corsac> if I can do secure communications over mail/phone/im/whatever it'd be really nice
Oct 13 16:05:40 <lardman> re
Oct 13 16:05:56 <ccooke> bfrog: because they can't make the next device without getting lots of feedback from *this* one, at the very least
Oct 13 16:05:57 <zaheerm> bfrog, if you want a nice phone, then you can get a lot worse than an n900...which has a very nice user experience
Oct 13 16:06:11 <luke-jr> ccooke: if the point is to help Nokia, then Nokia can fund it
Oct 13 16:06:14 * EspadaV8 n900++
Oct 13 16:06:19 <bfrog> it also requires a stylus doesn't it?
Oct 13 16:06:21 <Corsac> n901?
Oct 13 16:06:22 * EspadaV8 had to ships his back :(
Oct 13 16:06:26 <glass> the drm is needed for commercial stuff, thats where the pressure comes
Oct 13 16:06:28 <zaheerm> n900 does not require a stylus
Oct 13 16:06:30 <ccooke> the way things are going, I would expect to see maemo 6 on the n900 - in fact, it seeme to me that Nokia were being *very* careful with what they said at the summit
Oct 13 16:06:37 <zaheerm> EspadaV8, what happened?
Oct 13 16:06:48 <bfrog> how would it not with a resistive touch screen and all those tiny little buttons
Oct 13 16:06:52 <EspadaV8> zaheerm: i'd say that there are some apps that need the stylus
Oct 13 16:06:56 <bfrog> my fingers are fat
Oct 13 16:06:58 <EspadaV8> zaheerm: end of the loan time
Oct 13 16:07:02 <range> bfrog: Which tiny little buttons?
Oct 13 16:07:04 <ccooke> they never once said that maemo6 will run on the n900. However, they carefully listed many times that the hardware would be basically the same
Oct 13 16:07:09 <zaheerm> EspadaV8, none of the default apps need a stylus
Oct 13 16:07:13 <range> bfrog: Have you even looked at some of the videos and screenshots?
Oct 13 16:07:18 <bfrog> yeah
Oct 13 16:07:22 <bfrog> those are tiny buttons
Oct 13 16:07:22 <ccooke> and the language all the way through implied multiple streams of hardware
Oct 13 16:07:23 <zaheerm> EspadaV8, only ones people haven't ported to the ui guidelines
Oct 13 16:07:44 <ccooke> For instance, the thing about supporting multitouch was "On capacitive screens"
Oct 13 16:07:49 <glass> sony-xperia, now thats tiny buttons..
Oct 13 16:07:50 <zaheerm> i haven't used my stylus yet on n900
Oct 13 16:08:13 <ccooke> which rather implies that they'll have devices which don't have capacitive screens and therefore don't have multitouch
Oct 13 16:09:00 <glass> you should by the device based on what you get on it right now though
Oct 13 16:09:00 <zaheerm> ccooke, what they did say however was screensize would remain same and so would the processor architecture
Oct 13 16:09:01 <glass> you always get shafted if you buy devices based on what they may have in 1-2years
Oct 13 16:09:04 <lardman> zgold_: ping
Oct 13 16:09:09 <ccooke> zaheerm: and use of gles
Oct 13 16:09:17 <zaheerm> ccooke, yes and use of gles
Oct 13 16:09:27 <bfrog> if I write an app for maemo 5 in Qt will it look the same as the gtk apps?
Oct 13 16:09:34 <zaheerm> bfrog, yes
Oct 13 16:09:35 <ccooke> basically, they said very loudly that maemo6 *could* run on the n900, but very carefully didn't say it *would*
Oct 13 16:09:40 <bfrog> or will it be a crappy tacked on step child
Oct 13 16:09:49 <luke-jr> bfrog: why the obsession with Maemo specifically?
Oct 13 16:09:53 <zaheerm> bfrog, the screenshots i have seen show it looking native
Oct 13 16:10:01 <orbarron> hi all: need some input. please correct me if I am wrong but Maemo SDK and scratchbox seem to be geared to app development. Does anyone know how I might be able to get, build, or test a Maemo filesystem? I was told that someone had created such a environment for beagle but I am not sure where to look. I'll take any pointers...
Oct 13 16:10:01 <EspadaV8> bfrog: it'll look native
Oct 13 16:10:11 <luke-jr> bfrog: I would assume Qt on Maemo5 uses QGtkStyle
Oct 13 16:10:21 <EspadaV8> Qt4.5 isn't 'offically' supported though
Oct 13 16:10:30 <EspadaV8> but i use it for my app and it looks at home
Oct 13 16:10:31 <bfrog> yeah, thats still not as good as just using gtk then
Oct 13 16:10:37 <luke-jr> bfrog: yes it is
Oct 13 16:10:38 <ccooke> bfrog: you'll need to port the app to harmattan, but I suspect that will not be hard
Oct 13 16:10:48 <EspadaV8> using Qt is better than using Gtk though ;-)
Oct 13 16:10:58 * EspadaV8 hides before the Gtk dudes popup
Oct 13 16:11:02 <luke-jr> bfrog: I would run KDE, if you're going to get one
Oct 13 16:11:07 <ccooke> I think a lot of people will use qt on maemo 5
Oct 13 16:11:34 <lardman> zgold_: try here actually to save me some typing http://maemo.org/development/documentation/manuals/3-x/howto_camera_api_bora/
Oct 13 16:11:38 <bfrog> well thats my thought right... why bother getting n900 when it sounds like in another 6 months to a year maemo 6 with purely qt will be around
Oct 13 16:11:39 <EspadaV8> i can't see any reason not to use Qt now
Oct 13 16:11:51 <luke-jr> bfrog: why not KDE?
Oct 13 16:11:51 <microlith> bfrog: because that's 6 months to a year away
Oct 13 16:11:55 <bfrog> and I'll probably need a new $500 device
Oct 13 16:11:55 <EspadaV8> bfrog: so you have something to play with now :-)
Oct 13 16:11:58 <lardman> zgold_: one you've got that running, I'll give you some mods (switch off double buffering for the camera sink widget, etc.)
Oct 13 16:12:08 <luke-jr> microlith: some of us are patient
Oct 13 16:12:12 <bfrog> luke-jr because I want a phone not a desktop
Oct 13 16:12:21 <luke-jr> bfrog: then get a phone
Oct 13 16:12:28 <luke-jr> N900  isn't even supposed to be a phone
Oct 13 16:12:30 <luke-jr> that's just a bonus app
Oct 13 16:12:36 <microlith> luke-jr: my current phone is a moto ming loaner, and before that I last bought a phone in 2004
Oct 13 16:12:42 * EspadaV8 will be buying the n900
Oct 13 16:12:52 <microlith> ignored all teh smartphones from 2006 to now, I think I've been plenty patient :)
Oct 13 16:12:54 <lardman> luke-jr: no, it is designed to be a phone; the phone app is all-powerful
Oct 13 16:12:55 <luke-jr> microlith: I've had my current phone since 2001
Oct 13 16:12:57 <EspadaV8> and probably the n910 and then whatever has maemo
Oct 13 16:12:58 <EspadaV8> 6
Oct 13 16:17:01 <luke-jr> yayz, my N810 has finished upgrading to KDE 4.3.2
Oct 13 16:17:57 <slonopotamus> luke-jr, hehe :) how it goes?
Oct 13 16:18:19 <luke-jr> slonopotamus: Xorg 7.5 is not practical yet
Oct 13 16:18:33 <slonopotamus> luke-jr, why?
Oct 13 16:18:33 <luke-jr> slonopotamus: supposedly the server 1.7 is supposed to work with the Xorg 7.4 framework, but not
Oct 13 16:18:45 <luke-jr> and even the bleeding edge evdev driver still filters keys > 255
Oct 13 16:18:55 <slonopotamus> err
Oct 13 16:19:13 <slonopotamus> luke-jr, you need to use xinput2 somehow
Oct 13 16:20:58 <luke-jr> slonopotamus: irrelevant if the keys are filtered at the driver
Oct 13 16:22:18 <slonopotamus> luke-jr, dunno. i haven't dug into this problem deep
Oct 13 16:23:42 <lardman> anyone got usbnet working for N900 yet?
Oct 13 16:23:46 <luke-jr> slonopotamus: any clue how to get bluetooth to not start at boot?
Oct 13 16:24:04 <johnsq> luke-jr: it should be run by udev
Oct 13 16:24:17 <slonopotamus> luke-jr, tweak udev rules?
Oct 13 16:24:28 <luke-jr> slonopotamus: meh
Oct 13 16:24:48 <slonopotamus> luke-jr, remove bluez-utils? :D
Oct 13 16:25:32 <johnsq> luke-jr: problem is bluez-4, very broken.
Oct 13 16:25:36 <luke-jr> slonopotamus: meh
Oct 13 16:25:50 <luke-jr> johnsq: I wouldn't know, BlueTooth is too user unfriendly
Oct 13 16:27:15 <slonopotamus> johnsq, gentoo only has 2.25 and 3.x...
Oct 13 16:27:32 <johnsq> slonopotamus: my has bluez-4 unmasked
Oct 13 16:27:51 <johnsq> slonopotamus: I mean from gentoo unmasked, not by me
Oct 13 16:32:07 <lardman> anyone compiled g_ether for N900?
Oct 13 16:33:07 <Stskeeps> lardman: i have a sneaking suspicion g_nokia is actually a g_ether composite too
Oct 13 16:33:57 <Corsac> (what's g_ether?)
Oct 13 16:34:00 <lardman> really, hmm, might give it a go then
Oct 13 16:34:10 <lardman> Corsac: ethernet over usb
Oct 13 16:35:04 <lardman>  usbcore: registered new interface driver cdc_ether
Oct 13 16:37:44 <lopz> gst.ElementNotFoundError: jpegenc any idea?
Oct 13 16:45:05 <lardman> lopz: install jpegenc?
Oct 13 16:45:47 <andre__> whoah. 100 bug reports in 3 days.
Oct 13 16:46:04 <lardman> andre__: we thought you looked bored at the summit ;)
Oct 13 16:46:04 <zaheerm> andre__, it's good, right? :)
Oct 13 16:46:12 <VDVsx> hehhe
Oct 13 16:46:24 <andre__> heh.
Oct 13 16:46:29 <andre__> looks like a long evening
Oct 13 16:46:29 <zaheerm> i reported 2 of them, my wife reported 1
Oct 13 16:46:36 <andre__> yeah, i've just triaged them
Oct 13 16:46:44 <lardman> I reported 5 or so this morning
Oct 13 16:46:48 <zaheerm> andre__, thx for your comment, my wife was chuffed to read a thank you
Oct 13 16:47:06 <zaheerm> andre__, i had to hand hold her into using bugzilla, she was scared of writing wrong stuff
Oct 13 16:47:47 <lopz> lardman yes :S
Oct 13 16:47:49 <andre__> i normally try to always write Thank you, except for those folks that I definitely know. I need a Thank you script :-P
Oct 13 16:48:06 <VDVsx> andre__, seems that everybody wants "fixed in harmattan" t-shirts ;)
Oct 13 16:48:15 <lardman> lopz: ah, well which plugins set should it be in?
Oct 13 16:48:19 <andre__> harhar
Oct 13 16:48:24 <andre__> I mean - for many people this will be the first time to be in contact with open source. So let's be friendly...
Oct 13 16:48:35 <lardman> VDVsx, andre__: the colour of yours was soooo nice ;)
Oct 13 16:48:44 <zaheerm> andre__, yes, thx i really appreciate it
Oct 13 16:48:53 <luke-jr> andre__: what open source?
Oct 13 16:49:08 <luke-jr> N900 better not be marketting as open unless Nokia is going to actually open it.
Oct 13 16:49:10 <andre__> luke-jr, these 85% in the device. you have to open it to see it
Oct 13 16:49:27 <andre__> i know that you can only see the other 15% otherwise
Oct 13 16:49:39 <luke-jr> "85% open" is closed.
Oct 13 16:49:49 <luke-jr> especially when the 15% not included is the important bits
Oct 13 16:49:57 <andre__> lardman, i think that orange is color that i don't look good in at all :-P but tonight is a dutch party here so it wil fit
Oct 13 16:50:07 <andre__> luke-jr, i don't agree at all with your view.
Oct 13 16:50:19 <andre__> but that's no news.
Oct 13 16:50:37 <luke-jr> andre__: then you're missing the point of free software
Oct 13 16:50:41 <Stskeeps> pretty orange
Oct 13 16:51:17 <wiretapped> luke-jr: what do you think of android?
Oct 13 16:51:42 <andre__> luke-jr, freedom does not mean "everything must be free" to me. it's the freedom of every writer to decide which license to use.
Oct 13 16:51:42 <andre__> "everything must be free" is exaclty the contradiction to freedom.
Oct 13 16:52:07 <wiretapped> and freedom of users to not buy it
Oct 13 16:52:32 * wiretapped wishes someone would sell him a phone with all free software
Oct 13 16:52:39 <luke-jr> wiretapped: I hate Java.
Oct 13 16:52:43 <wiretapped> me too.
Oct 13 16:52:59 <microlith> wiretapped: only hope there is openmoko, enjoy a mediocre phone :)
Oct 13 16:53:19 <luke-jr> andre__: your freedom to decide sale terms ends when it infringes on the recipient's freedom to decide what he does with it
Oct 13 16:53:21 <wiretapped> i've held off getting an android phone waiting for maemo... even though it is less free, it is more of a real linux platform
Oct 13 16:54:05 <andre__> luke-jr, you can do whatever you want to with your device. feel free to. just do it.
Oct 13 16:54:18 <luke-jr> andre__: Nokia denies me the information on how to use it.
Oct 13 16:54:18 <zaheerm> android is much less developed in community than maemo
Oct 13 16:55:06 <wiretapped> zaheerm: that may be, but I know more android devs in person than I do maemo devs
Oct 13 16:55:19 <wiretapped> but many of them are drooling over the n900 now :)
Oct 13 16:55:37 <Corsac> hmhm, is the SDK available for armel hosts?
Oct 13 16:55:44 <Stskeeps> OK, so, in /pool/maemo5.0 there is maemo5.0/tools and maemo5.0/tools
Oct 13 16:55:48 <Stskeeps> what other ones are there?
Oct 13 16:55:52 <Stskeeps> err
Oct 13 16:55:53 <Stskeeps> maemo5.0/sdk
Oct 13 16:55:56 <lopz> lardman I quickly install extra plugins has been fixed, thanks
Oct 13 16:56:10 <Stskeeps> i don't care for the tokens, but i am missing what category busybox is in
Oct 13 16:56:24 <andre__> luke-jr, like?
Oct 13 16:56:38 <lardman> lopz: good; was going to mention that some of the packages don't contain all of the components
Oct 13 16:56:42 <zaheerm> i have an android device too
Oct 13 16:56:49 <zaheerm> doesn't even compare to the n900
Oct 13 16:57:52 <luke-jr> andre__: like specifications on what to send to the modem/GPS/etc to get it to do stuff
Oct 13 16:57:56 <lopz> lardman yep
Oct 13 16:58:18 <lopz> lardman ok, thanks again
Oct 13 16:58:19 <andre__> luke-jr, that was never promised.
Oct 13 16:58:34 <andre__> i talked about the software when i said 85%. :)
Oct 13 16:58:50 <luke-jr> andre__: thus, Nokia denies me the right to use my own hardware.
Oct 13 16:59:16 <luke-jr> andre__: modifyable drivers would qualify as specifications to me
Oct 13 17:00:22 <andre__> luke-jr, you can do whatever you want with the hardware
Oct 13 17:00:39 <microlith> andre__: without specs it is exceedingly difficult
Oct 13 17:00:42 <andre__> expecting that all specs are available to me is a very busted point of view. do you also get that for your car_
Oct 13 17:00:45 <andre__> ?
Oct 13 17:01:07 <andre__> of course it's difficult. and i agree with the point, sure. but...
Oct 13 17:01:33 <andre__> "it's my hardware so they must give me all the specs" is just wrong. because there's a big difference.
Oct 13 17:01:39 <microlith> not really
Oct 13 17:01:43 <andre__> anyway. we all have our opinions on this :)
Oct 13 17:01:44 <luke-jr> andre__: yes, I get a manual for my car. if I look online, I can probably even get details on the individual components.
Oct 13 17:01:56 <|R> well actually there are laws for cars to be easily accessible, forcing them to open the computer specs, so not to put every car fixer / garagist out of business ;)
Oct 13 17:02:39 <lardman> can I upgrade my fremantle beta to fremantle-1.0/
Oct 13 17:02:40 <lardman> ?
Oct 13 17:02:53 <lardman> (sorry, was out of the country when it was released)
Oct 13 17:03:11 <lardman> ah, SDK that is of course
Oct 13 17:03:37 <zaheerm> andre__, am i meant to remove moreinfo keyword when i provide the info you asked for?
Oct 13 17:04:01 <zaheerm> lardman, i had issues when i did that, had to install afresh
Oct 13 17:04:11 <lardman> zaheerm: ok, thanks
Oct 13 17:04:25 <andre__> zaheerm, yes :)
Oct 13 17:05:45 <zaheerm> andre__, done, thx didn't know the maemo bugzilla etiquette
Oct 13 17:11:57 <andre__> zaheerm, after update we'll have a needinfo state, finally
Oct 13 17:18:08 <ccooke> FYI: mauku on my n900 is a complete battery killer. Just found that it's left a process using 90% of the cpu, permanently
Oct 13 17:19:44 <wiretapped> lol @ nokia's meetup locations
Oct 13 17:20:45 <lcuk> wiretapped, at the flagship stores?
Oct 13 17:21:45 <ccooke> Anyone running mauku: Check 'top' in the terminal for a process running at 90% cpu. you'll need to drop to root and apt-get remove microfeed to get rid of it.
Oct 13 17:21:47 <wiretapped> yeah i guess i mean lol @ their flagship store locations
Oct 13 17:21:58 <ccooke> (this will remove mauku, of course)
Oct 13 17:23:00 <ccooke> (actually, I needed to kill the process, too)
Oct 13 17:24:50 * lardman wanders off for a glass of wine while the 1.0 Fremantle SDK installs
Oct 13 17:31:16 * fiferboy goes for a three-hour coffee break while Qt 4.6 compiles in scratchbox
Oct 13 17:31:55 * lardman wonders if the length of the coffee break actually has anything to do with Qt compiling.....
Oct 13 17:32:41 <clmntch> qt takes some time to compile
Oct 13 17:32:51 <clmntch> possibly more than a coffee break
Oct 13 17:33:09 <clmntch> unless he's going to columbia to pick the beans himself
Oct 13 17:33:09 <fiferboy> It is a lot better than before.  3 hours now versus 3 days (and not actually completing) before
Oct 13 17:33:36 <Corsac> “i'm not slacking off, my code's compiling!”
Oct 13 17:33:37 <SpeedEvil> If anything takes more time than a coffee break, you need a faster compile farm.
Oct 13 17:33:37 <lardman> Is this the latest relases?
Oct 13 17:33:50 <fiferboy> 4.6 alpha
Oct 13 17:33:59 <fiferboy> The "technology preview"
Oct 13 17:34:11 <lardman> I thought it was still missing some bits & bobs that will be added soon?
Oct 13 17:34:30 <fiferboy> Most likely.  I am compiling for x86 right now to test in scratchbox
Oct 13 17:34:37 <lardman> ok
Oct 13 17:34:52 <fiferboy> If it runs my program well enough and is finger friendly, I will compile it for arm and try it on my device
Oct 13 17:35:17 <lardman> cool, am looking forward to Harmattan goodness :)
Oct 13 17:36:01 <fiferboy> Maybe they will go back to Qtopia for Harmattan :)
Oct 13 17:36:49 <fiferboy> lardman: You are (were?) a Zaurus user, right?
Oct 13 17:37:12 <lardman> yes, was
Oct 13 17:37:28 <lardman> don't think they will even boot now, batteries so old & dead
Oct 13 17:37:33 <fiferboy> I thought I remember the nickname from somewhere.  I have two SL-5000Ds that won't boot
Oct 13 17:38:00 <lardman> yeah, I was very active on the oesf forums, and did some stuff in OpenZaurus, etc
Oct 13 17:38:43 <fiferboy> I was somewhat active on the forums and wrote a couple Qtopia apps
Oct 13 17:39:13 <fiferboy> I used to use it as a LAMP stack to serve PHP and Mysql to myself :)
Oct 13 17:40:04 <lardman> I seemed to spend lots of time getting Octave and R to run
Oct 13 17:40:52 <lardman> all the while cursing fpa for always having bigendian ordering even while the processor was littleendian (or at least running in that mode for the pedants)
Oct 13 17:41:16 <lardman> and also cursing the two above for using fp ordering to decide device endianness
Oct 13 17:41:19 <lardman> all good fun
Oct 13 17:41:56 <fiferboy> I had a CL-1000 before my N810, but I sold that too my brother.  It was a pretty nice computer, but CF wifi cards didn't seem to last long on it
Oct 13 17:42:53 <luke-jr> SL-C1000?
Oct 13 17:43:01 * microlith remembers drooling over the C-860
Oct 13 17:43:13 <lardman> wifi cards sticking out drove me mad/to the 770
Oct 13 17:43:24 <lardman> but no kb really was a step back
Oct 13 17:43:24 <luke-jr> O.o
Oct 13 17:43:43 <luke-jr> I really really want an upgraded Zaurus clamshell
Oct 13 17:43:47 <microlith> wasn't the C1000 the first with an internal hard drive?
Oct 13 17:43:53 <luke-jr> microlith: I think so
Oct 13 17:44:02 <luke-jr> the new one is just SSD again, isn't it?
Oct 13 17:44:10 <microlith> are there new ones?
Oct 13 17:44:18 <luke-jr> yeah
Oct 13 17:44:25 <luke-jr> but still no Bluetooth or phone capability
Oct 13 17:44:26 <lardman> C1000 also had usb host iirc
Oct 13 17:44:27 <microlith> I thought sharp killed the zaurus line
Oct 13 17:44:30 <ccooke_> the new sharp clamshell is not a Zaurus, though
Oct 13 17:44:33 <luke-jr> microlith: they did, until recently
Oct 13 17:44:35 <fiferboy> C3000 had the HD, C1000 did not
Oct 13 17:44:41 <ccooke_> and it's... not looking very good, to be honest
Oct 13 17:44:42 <luke-jr> microlith: the new one is also larger IIRC
Oct 13 17:44:46 <ccooke_> a bit of a missed opportunity
Oct 13 17:44:50 <luke-jr> and has a crappy keyboard from the reviews
Oct 13 17:45:04 <microlith> I was always tempted to try and get one, but even the C700s in used shops were expensive as all get out
Oct 13 17:45:13 <luke-jr> http://pocketables.typepad.com/.a/6a00d83451c9ec69e20120a602908a970c-800wi
Oct 13 17:45:28 <microlith> oh, those things
Oct 13 17:45:40 <lardman> microlith: c700 was crippled
Oct 13 17:45:55 <luke-jr> I have a SL-C760
Oct 13 17:46:13 <lardman> microlith: I bought a c750 which was not too bad, was considering upgrading to to C1000, but went for Nokia instead
Oct 13 17:46:48 <microlith> lardman: cool. this is my first move on a portable device like this (with the N900)
Oct 13 17:46:57 <traut> is there python-abook build for PyMaemo5 ?
Oct 13 17:47:00 <lardman> I still quite fancy a Psion 5 replacement mind you :)
Oct 13 17:47:16 <lardman> microlith: it's a good bit of kit
Oct 13 17:47:22 <lardman> the N900 that is
Oct 13 17:47:25 <microlith> yeah
Oct 13 17:47:28 <traut> desperately trying to build it by my own
Oct 13 17:47:29 <lardman> Psion 5 is a bit old now ;)
Oct 13 17:47:38 <luke-jr> the OpenPandora would be tempting if it had phone chip :/
Oct 13 17:47:46 <microlith> it's replacing my phone and my iPod
Oct 13 17:47:48 <lardman> or ever got released :p
Oct 13 17:48:03 <microlith> and my aspire one to some extent
Oct 13 17:48:11 * microlith grumbles, stupid cheap fan
Oct 13 17:48:23 <lardman> I put a CC order down for one a year ago, got money back and never bothered to re-order, and here we are one year on
Oct 13 17:48:31 <luke-jr> lardman: it seems to be shipping soon for real :p
Oct 13 17:48:37 <lardman> lol
Oct 13 17:48:45 <lardman> I've heard that before
Oct 13 17:48:47 <lardman> :)
Oct 13 17:48:48 <luke-jr> lardman: supposedly it's actually physically existing now
Oct 13 17:48:58 <lardman> well that's a step closer at least
Oct 13 17:49:22 <lizardo> traut: currently, no , but see this thread: https://garage.maemo.org/pipermail/pymaemo-developers/2009-October/000972.html
Oct 13 17:49:31 <luke-jr> "1. ALL parts (including the nubs) have arrived at the factory! For ALL 4000 Pandoras!"
Oct 13 17:49:50 <traut> lizardo: thank you, I'll take a look
Oct 13 17:50:21 <luke-jr> "CE testing will take place next week on Wednesday and will probably take about 1 - 2 hours."
Oct 13 17:50:30 <luke-jr> that's tomorrow
Oct 13 17:51:11 <Jaffa> qwerty12: good find on the pvr cache thing
Oct 13 17:51:41 <qwerty12> Thanks
Oct 13 17:51:48 <SpeedEvil> I personally have taken the approach of not believing any hardware is real until I can buy it for 40 quid on ebay.
Oct 13 17:52:03 <luke-jr> wtf is 40 quid
Oct 13 17:52:14 <lardman> £
Oct 13 17:52:14 <Xisdibik> headless Squid
Oct 13 17:52:18 <timeless> 3-4 years late
Oct 13 17:52:18 <SpeedEvil> $60 or so dollars
Oct 13 17:52:23 <luke-jr> lol
Oct 13 17:52:34 <timeless> or 2 years after warranty and support end
Oct 13 17:52:35 <lardman> why do you foreigners not know what a quid is? Madness! ;)
Oct 13 17:52:41 <luke-jr> I wonder if OpenPandora will have headers that might allow adding a cell phone
Oct 13 17:53:02 <Xisdibik> lardman: Why do you pronounce colour  color,  but spell it colour ;)
Oct 13 17:53:27 <lardman> Xisdibik: ah no, I say it cooolooooeeeerrr, like a Frenchman ;)
Oct 13 17:53:37 <Xisdibik> ah a frenchie, nvm then your cool ;)
Oct 13 17:53:44 <Jaffa> traut: If you get the Hermes sourcde tarball you'll find a basic osso-abook example in Python using ctypes
Oct 13 17:53:47 <lardman> no, am English tbh
Oct 13 17:53:50 <Xisdibik> oh
Oct 13 17:53:51 <timeless> s/your/you're/
Oct 13 17:53:51 <glass__> luke-jr: does it have bluetooth? just glue one bt phone to backside if it has
Oct 13 17:53:52 <Xisdibik> phail then ;)
Oct 13 17:53:56 <lardman> indeed
Oct 13 17:54:02 * GeneralAntilles waits to see where the wiki whining goes.
Oct 13 17:54:13 <timeless> wiki whining?
Oct 13 17:54:14 <Xisdibik> and yea, I do my your/you're wrong on purpose for my friend ;)
Oct 13 17:54:44 <Jaffa> GeneralAntilles: seen rcadden's tweet about tmo for consumers?
Oct 13 17:54:44 <traut> Jaffa: I'll ask him by email, thanks
Oct 13 17:54:44 <timeless> you only have one?
Oct 13 17:54:45 <Xisdibik> only one what?
Oct 13 17:54:46 <GeneralAntilles> Jaffa, don't follow twitter generally.
Oct 13 17:55:06 <RST38h> These ssh problems are contagious
Oct 13 17:55:11 <Jaffa> traut: Him? I wrote it ;-)
Oct 13 17:55:15 <RST38h> First Extras-Devel, now Komkon
Oct 13 17:55:20 <timeless> ssh problems?
Oct 13 17:55:25 <traut> Jaffa: oh, sorry :)
Oct 13 17:55:28 <luke-jr> glass__: yeah
Oct 13 17:55:46 <traut> Jaffa: can you please point where I can get the code?
Oct 13 17:55:50 <qwerty12_N810> RST38bis: I blame Russia and Finland being next to each other
Oct 13 17:55:59 <lardman> how do I change sb target?
Oct 13 17:56:14 * lardman never uses x86, wants to escape asap
Oct 13 17:56:21 <timeless> sb-menu
Oct 13 17:56:25 <GeneralAntilles> Jaffa, not jumping out at me in his history. Timeframe or link?
Oct 13 17:56:39 <Jaffa> traut: It'll be in git soon enough, but the existing source is either in /opt/hermes/lib once installed or on repository.maem.org - more info at http://maemo.org/packages/view/hermes/
Oct 13 17:56:40 <lardman> timeless: thanks :)
Oct 13 17:56:44 <RST38bis> qwerty: Komkon is in CT.US how did it get into this picture?
Oct 13 17:56:51 <VDVsx> Jaffa, http://www.flickr.com/photos/43419012@N04/4001322448/  ehhehe
Oct 13 17:56:57 <GeneralAntilles> timeless, another round of "everything at http://maemo.org sucks"
Oct 13 17:57:11 <Jaffa> GeneralAntilles: Would've been under maemoguru account at about 1700 UTC
Oct 13 17:57:20 <qwerty12_N810> RST38bis: Meh, I thought it was in Russia.
Oct 13 17:57:22 <fiferboy> lardman: armel will not display anything if you are trying to use Xephyr
Oct 13 17:57:30 <GeneralAntilles> VDVsx, proof! You're trying to steal my pocket lint!
Oct 13 17:57:34 <lizardo> I suppose X-Fade is AFK, so anyone else could take a look on this build: https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/pygtk_2.12.1-6maemo8/  on fremantle autobuilder and see why it is taking so long (it is building for a long time, and usually is very quick to build)
Oct 13 17:57:40 <fiferboy> Unless that was fixed in the final SDK
Oct 13 17:57:42 <traut> Jaffa: thanks
Oct 13 17:58:17 <Jaffa> VD	vdv	hehe
Oct 13 17:58:40 <GeneralAntilles> Jaffa, interesting.
Oct 13 17:58:54 <traut> Jaffa: I'll take a closer look tomorrow. Thank you once again.
Oct 13 17:59:07 <Jaffa> traut: I'll try and push the existing versions into git at http://garage.maemo.org/projects/hermes/ tonight
Oct 13 17:59:12 <lardman> fiferboy: command line only ;)
Oct 13 17:59:18 <traut> Jaffa: ok, great
Oct 13 17:59:24 <fiferboy> lardman: Ah yes, you don't do GUIs
Oct 13 17:59:38 <Jaffa> traut: just shout if you have any questions; took me ages to get it working so happy to share my learning
Oct 13 18:00:17 * GeneralAntilles starts shameless ripping Apple logo animations off.
Oct 13 18:00:35 <Jaffa> GeneralAntilles: startup screen?
Oct 13 18:00:42 <GeneralAntilles> Yeah
Oct 13 18:00:51 <GeneralAntilles> Gonna try to animate something interesting with the http://maemo.org logo.
Oct 13 18:01:10 <GeneralAntilles> Where's our sound artist to mix us up a tune to go with it? :P
Oct 13 18:02:00 * qwerty12_N810 gets his amplifier, microphone and rigs it up to the toilet
Oct 13 18:03:20 <javispedro> qwerty12_N810: great discovery! I love the documentation for hildon_gtk_window_take_screenshot(). you'd never guess what the function is for from reading it. ( http://maemo.org/api_refs/5.0/5.0-final/hildon/hildon-Additions-to-GTK+.html#hildon-gtk-window-take-screenshot ).
Oct 13 18:03:56 <qwerty12_N810> javispedro: lol, yeah, I thought it was what ctrl-shift-p did when I first saw it :)
Oct 13 18:04:28 <lizardo> well, pygtk now happily continues its building now :D thanks to the anonymous (or to the OOM Killer?) for letting the build continue :D
Oct 13 18:05:51 <lardman> fiferboy: well I try very hard not to anyway
Oct 13 18:05:54 <GAN900> How is text rendering in the browser so broken. . . .
Oct 13 18:06:08 <GAN900> This should really be a blocker bug.
Oct 13 18:11:46 <lardman> why do we still have an old version of debhelper?
Oct 13 18:12:54 <javispedro> in SDK? mostly.
Oct 13 18:13:13 <Stskeeps> cos of noone knowing how on earth to upgrade it in scratchbox
Oct 13 18:13:16 <javispedro> yep, still debian-etch here.
Oct 13 18:14:05 <lardman> hmm, curious, clutter-1.0 is on the device, but not in the SDK
Oct 13 18:14:07 <javispedro> well, debian lenny devkit is there at least (without debhelper)
Oct 13 18:14:16 <javispedro> lardman: because someone uploaded it to extras iirc.
Oct 13 18:14:30 <lardman> ah, ok
Oct 13 18:14:32 <javispedro> at least I got some OGLES2 tips from him.
Oct 13 18:15:04 <timeless> gan: we don't really know much about kerning
Oct 13 18:15:32 <timeless> have you installed fennec?
Oct 13 18:15:42 <GeneralAntilles> timeless, I did, it wasn't optfied and it was slow.
Oct 13 18:16:03 <GeneralAntilles> The text rendering in MicroB has to be fixed.
Oct 13 18:16:12 <GeneralAntilles> It makes the whole zooming thing pretty useless.
Oct 13 18:16:19 <timeless> was kerning better there?
Oct 13 18:16:58 <GeneralAntilles> Didn't bother to test that far.
Oct 13 18:17:05 <GeneralAntilles> It was really slow and my rootfs was full by that point.
Oct 13 18:17:26 * timeless nods
Oct 13 18:17:53 <timeless> oh, i found my skypename
Oct 13 18:18:31 <timeless> it was very creative
Oct 13 18:18:44 <lardman> hmm, I get: W: GPG error: http://repository.maemo.org fremantle Release: Couldn't access keyring: 'No such file or directory'
Oct 13 18:18:59 <qwerty12_N810> "timeless_da_pimp"?
Oct 13 18:21:20 <lardman> any thoughts as to what that might be trying to tell me
Oct 13 18:21:22 <lardman> ?
Oct 13 18:21:56 <lardman> seemingly something to do with my trying to add extras
Oct 13 18:21:59 * qwerty12_N810 's carefree side points out that it is a warning, and not an error
Oct 13 18:22:17 <lardman> ah, that's good, thanks
Oct 13 18:22:36 <fiferboy> I think it is just letting you know that anything signed in that repo won't be verified when you install it, since you don't have the key
Oct 13 18:22:50 <fiferboy> I can't remember whether extras is signed or not
Oct 13 18:22:53 <lardman> ah ok
Oct 13 18:23:11 <lardman> still no clutter-1.0 anywhere though, perhaps I need extras-devel/testing/etc
Oct 13 18:24:12 <wazd> fiferboy: heya, traveled back safely? :)
Oct 13 18:24:35 <fiferboy> wazd: Yes.  Now I just need to get my timezone adjusted again
Oct 13 18:24:59 <fiferboy> And there was a hectic (and expensive) cab ride to the airport when the train to the airport was cancelled...
Oct 13 18:25:08 <wazd> fiferboy: yeah, can't imagine :)
Oct 13 18:26:20 <lardman> balls, can't install libclutter-1.0-dev due to missing deps: libgles2-sgx-img-dev, libgl1-mesa-dev, libgl-dev
Oct 13 18:26:24 <lardman> hmm, supper first
Oct 13 18:26:27 <lardman> bbiab
Oct 13 18:26:31 <GeneralAntilles> fiferboy, while you're doing that, think about a calculator widget.
Oct 13 18:26:48 <GeneralAntilles> wazd, now is the time to pick up 3D. :P
Oct 13 18:26:53 <fiferboy> GeneralAntilles: Desktop widget?
Oct 13 18:27:04 <GeneralAntilles> Yeah
Oct 13 18:27:36 <fiferboy> I would need to see a sensible layout to make it finger-friendly yet small enough.  I can't picture that
Oct 13 18:27:50 <wazd> GeneralAntilles: what? :)
Oct 13 18:28:02 <GeneralAntilles> wazd, for startup animations.
Oct 13 18:28:13 <GeneralAntilles> fiferboy, it can be stylus friendly.
Oct 13 18:28:40 <wazd> GeneralAntilles: oh, yeah, wish I had time :)
Oct 13 18:28:43 <GeneralAntilles> Close something like this: http://www.mattballdesign.com/widgets/calculator/calculator.png
Oct 13 18:28:49 <timeless> phone keypad 4x3
Oct 13 18:28:55 <fiferboy> True.  A basic calulator has, what - 18 buttons
Oct 13 18:29:15 <timeless> * changes numbers to operator
Oct 13 18:29:30 <fiferboy> I'll take a look and see what I can come up with
Oct 13 18:29:32 <timeless> # as =
Oct 13 18:30:50 <javispedro> lardman|gone: for when you return, it's funny, because the first one will only be avail in armel and the other two ones in x86 sdk.
Oct 13 18:30:53 <GeneralAntilles> Crap, I forgot how to animate.
Oct 13 18:32:04 <aSIMULAter> omg haihai
Oct 13 18:33:15 <lcuk> GeneralAntilles, onion skinning!
Oct 13 18:33:18 <lcuk> hi aSIMULAter
Oct 13 18:33:26 <aSIMULAter> hai lcuk
Oct 13 18:33:41 <Corsac> hmhm, has the n900 some videochat soft?
Oct 13 18:33:45 <Corsac> like, jabber video support?
Oct 13 18:34:58 <RST38h> well, ssh seems to have sorted itself out
Oct 13 18:35:03 <lcuk> aSIMULAter, was it as big as you expected
Oct 13 18:35:31 <qwerty12_N810> We're talking about the Summit, right?
Oct 13 18:35:34 * qwerty12_N810 hides
Oct 13 18:35:37 <lcuk> lol
Oct 13 18:35:46 <aSIMULAter> well it was an ok size
Oct 13 18:35:52 <RST38h> aSIMULAter <== met RST38h at the summit but apparently didn't make a connection
Oct 13 18:35:54 <aSIMULAter> i had a good time
Oct 13 18:36:07 <aSIMULAter> maybe if i saw a photo of you i would remembmermelkt?
Oct 13 18:36:08 <aSIMULAter> asdf
Oct 13 18:36:39 <RST38h> Ehehe
Oct 13 18:36:45 <aSIMULAter> http://www.flickr.com/photos/asimulator/3995305412/
Oct 13 18:36:50 <aSIMULAter> maemo crew \o/ big upppps
Oct 13 18:37:14 <lcuk> yikes!  i have been photographed
Oct 13 18:37:17 <RST38h> asim: the fellow at the left is me
Oct 13 18:37:19 <fiferboy> I'm in there too
Oct 13 18:37:26 <aSIMULAter> oho! :)
Oct 13 18:37:27 <lcuk> and Stskeeps
Oct 13 18:37:28 <aSIMULAter> now i remember u
Oct 13 18:37:50 <SpeedEvil> Maybe the revolution will be televised.
Oct 13 18:37:54 <aSIMULAter> i'm using the n900 as my primary device now
Oct 13 18:37:56 <aSIMULAter> <3 it
Oct 13 18:38:02 <aSIMULAter> i especially LOVE THE USER INTERFACE
Oct 13 18:38:06 <aSIMULAter> :P
Oct 13 18:38:13 <lcuk> about bloody time!  you cant go designing conversations without using it yourself!
Oct 13 18:38:21 <aSIMULAter> hehe
Oct 13 18:38:25 <aSIMULAter> did u guys see our videos yet?
Oct 13 18:38:28 <aSIMULAter> www.youtube.com/maemo5ui
Oct 13 18:38:31 <lcuk> nopers
Oct 13 18:38:31 <aSIMULAter> www.youtube.com/maemo5uiteam
Oct 13 18:38:32 <aSIMULAter> rather
Oct 13 18:38:44 <JoeBrain> I thought Maemo 6 was announced?
Oct 13 18:38:59 <javispedro> it was "announced" a few years ago.
Oct 13 18:39:07 <JoeBrain> lol k, just reading the topic
Oct 13 18:39:25 <aSIMULAter> please try and spread the url about our videos :D
Oct 13 18:40:03 * GeneralAntilles has a cheesy logo animation on the way.
Oct 13 18:40:09 <luke-jr> aSIMULAter: where'd you get it from so fast? O.o
Oct 13 18:40:19 <javispedro> GeneralAntilles: if it's anything Apple related prepare to die >:)
Oct 13 18:40:21 <aSIMULAter> the device?
Oct 13 18:40:30 <aSIMULAter> i uh...attended the maemo summit :P
Oct 13 18:40:36 <luke-jr> oh, right
Oct 13 18:40:41 * lcuk giggles
Oct 13 18:40:47 <javispedro> aSIMULAter: the turn down to silence idea looks pretty!
Oct 13 18:40:48 <GeneralAntilles> andre__, looool
Oct 13 18:40:55 <GeneralAntilles> aSIMULAter, why can't we organize the applications menu? :(
Oct 13 18:41:04 <aSIMULAter> good question
Oct 13 18:41:09 <aSIMULAter> wasn't taht also a question at the summit
Oct 13 18:41:13 <aSIMULAter> to the ux panel
Oct 13 18:41:35 <andre__> GeneralAntilles, hmmmm?
Oct 13 18:41:42 <RST38h> the app menu is weird
Oct 13 18:41:44 <GeneralAntilles> andre__, Harmattan, really? :Y
Oct 13 18:41:53 <RST38h> 1-2-3-4 taps to get to an app
Oct 13 18:41:53 <andre__> GeneralAntilles, FIXED in Harmattan! yay!
Oct 13 18:42:04 * lcuk facepalms
Oct 13 18:42:23 <GeneralAntilles> By that time Nokia's going to have built-in bricking devices that activate if you try to install things from Extras testing.
Oct 13 18:42:36 <andre__> yawn
Oct 13 18:42:43 <VDVsx> fiferboy, didn't knew that you was at the summit o_0
Oct 13 18:42:48 <lcuk> adele, in the conversations vid, you answer the call - have a think and tell me how long you had been using the device
Oct 13 18:43:07 <fiferboy> VDVsx: Yep, I made the trip.
Oct 13 18:43:18 <lcuk> VDVsx, he was lurking
Oct 13 18:43:19 <aSIMULAter> lcuk: :PP
Oct 13 18:43:34 <qwerty12_N810> VDVsx: How long have you been helping organising it? :p
Oct 13 18:43:35 <lcuk> aSIMULAter, serious question
Oct 13 18:43:47 <aSIMULAter> are you refering to the time stamps
Oct 13 18:44:12 <lcuk> no
Oct 13 18:44:15 <VDVsx> qwerty12_N810, how long I spent in the org ? lol
Oct 13 18:44:32 <lcuk> VDVsx, we didnt do the signing thing
Oct 13 18:44:39 <lcuk> i have just been reminded now
Oct 13 18:44:43 <fiferboy> VDVsx: I walked back to the hotel with you guys after the last summit day :)
Oct 13 18:45:05 <VDVsx> fiferboy, .(
Oct 13 18:45:19 <fiferboy> I was with qole when we caught up to you guys.
Oct 13 18:45:30 <fiferboy> I don't think we were ever properly introduced, though.
Oct 13 18:46:24 <VDVsx> fiferboy, yeah, it happened to me a lot, 'I missed a lot of introductions' lol
Oct 13 18:46:44 <aSIMULAter> lcuk: well, technically for quite some time now
Oct 13 18:46:54 <lcuk> i see - whats this also http://www.flickr.com/photos/asimulator/4008256538/ lol
Oct 13 18:47:12 <aSIMULAter> heheheh
Oct 13 18:48:10 <aSIMULAter> okok i kid........but today i actually started using it at my primary device
Oct 13 18:48:21 <aSIMULAter> i have 2 sim cards, using it with my personal sim now
Oct 13 18:48:27 <aSIMULAter> finally took the plunge
Oct 13 18:50:01 <aSIMULAter> 178kcal
Oct 13 18:50:05 <aSIMULAter> er oops wrong channel
Oct 13 18:50:49 <JosefAssad> that was for #bigmac huh
Oct 13 18:50:51 <lcuk> hah
Oct 13 18:50:59 * lcuk wants one of those scooterbikes
Oct 13 18:51:02 <aSIMULAter> i'm talking about the stroopwafels i bought
Oct 13 18:51:06 <aSIMULAter> in amsterdam
Oct 13 18:51:13 <aSIMULAter> i bought a box of 6 packages
Oct 13 18:51:16 <aSIMULAter> and each is 178kcal
Oct 13 18:51:17 <lcuk> o_O
Oct 13 18:51:17 <SpeedEvil>  np: Scooter - The Logical Song.
Oct 13 18:51:22 <aSIMULAter> and i ate 4 today :O :(
Oct 13 18:51:30 <lcuk> i didnt eat a single rasher of bacon on this trip
Oct 13 18:51:33 <aSIMULAter> that's it..no more dutch food...bad for your health
Oct 13 18:51:41 <aSIMULAter> no bacon at your hotel?
Oct 13 18:51:46 <lardman> javispedro: indeed, slightly strange
Oct 13 18:51:47 <lcuk> nope!
Oct 13 18:51:53 <lcuk> and no pineapple either
Oct 13 18:52:02 <aSIMULAter> what in tarnation
Oct 13 18:52:02 <lcuk> breakfast consisted of a cup of coffee :D
Oct 13 18:52:15 <lardman> javispedro: ah, they are OR deps
Oct 13 18:52:18 <lardman> my mistake
Oct 13 18:52:22 <javispedro> that'd make sense.
Oct 13 18:52:31 * lardman wonders if he needs to install nokia-binaries or somesuch
Oct 13 18:52:32 <javispedro> lardman: either way, why 1.0? iirc the compositor uses 0.8
Oct 13 18:52:49 <lardman> I have 1.0 on device and libchamplain wants it
Oct 13 18:52:57 <javispedro> a, just curious.
Oct 13 18:53:04 <fiferboy> lardman: Sounds like you are doing gui work...
Oct 13 18:53:13 <lardman> yeah, I may go to an earlier version of libchamplain
Oct 13 18:53:21 <lardman> fiferboy: yeah, nasty isn't it!?
Oct 13 18:53:38 <qwerty12_N810> fiferboy: Did you get the same bad feeling as me?
Oct 13 18:53:43 <javispedro> fiferboy: so, would you like to get help on writing a formal letter? (couldn't resist) ;)
Oct 13 18:54:11 <fiferboy> javispedro: I don't get it...
Oct 13 18:54:18 * RST38h still has not renamed his n900 into a real phone
Oct 13 18:54:19 <RST38h> Still called neopadlog
Oct 13 18:54:26 <javispedro> fiferboy: office clippo reference, probably mistranslated.
Oct 13 18:55:12 <javispedro> Clippo: "It looks like you are doing GUI work... would you like some help on Hildon? NIAHIAHIAHIA"
Oct 13 18:55:32 <lcuk> lardman, wine
Oct 13 18:55:39 <lcuk> much more wine
Oct 13 18:55:43 <aSIMULAter> http://arstechnica.com/web/news/2009/10/checking-twitterfacebook-the-new-post-coital-cigarette.ars
Oct 13 18:55:46 <lardman> right-ho
Oct 13 18:55:56 <lcuk> and ask fiferboy and aSIMULAter ;)
Oct 13 18:56:47 <lcuk> aSIMULAter, :O you will soon have to stand outside to check facebook, good thing you can with n900
Oct 13 18:56:57 <tbf> andre__: can we get one to package http://burtonini.com/bzr/eds-tools/?
Oct 13 18:57:09 <aSIMULAter> <3 unlimited data plan
Oct 13 18:57:19 <lardman> hmm, I wonder what I've broken?: > fakeroot apt-get install nokia-binaries
Oct 13 18:57:22 <tbf> andre__: having them in fremantle-extras would help greatly in debugging contacts related bugs like 5365
Oct 13 18:57:25 <lardman> E: Couldn't find package nokia-binaries
Oct 13 18:57:27 <andre__> tbf: asking in talk.maemo.org is usually a good way
Oct 13 18:57:36 <fiferboy> lardman: Did you install the EULA repository?
Oct 13 18:57:42 <aSIMULAter> geez, from roughly 10 mins of usage, i clocked in 8mbit of downloads (yay for hte data counter) that was 2,60e per mb
Oct 13 18:57:43 <lardman> ah, reading the docs
Oct 13 18:57:50 <lardman> I see my error now ;)
Oct 13 18:58:04 <tbf> andre__: what would be a good forum?
Oct 13 18:58:12 <RST38h> Ahhahaha
Oct 13 18:58:29 <RST38h> They marked this as WONTFIX: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5321
Oct 13 18:59:08 <andre__> tbf: as i said: talk.maemo.org
Oct 13 18:59:11 <RST38h> And this is an "enhancement": https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5332
Oct 13 18:59:15 <andre__> "Request for packaging foo"
Oct 13 18:59:15 <GeneralAntilles> RST38h, holy shit.
Oct 13 18:59:18 <GeneralAntilles> That's so awful.
Oct 13 18:59:19 <tbf> andre__: YES! but which forum there?
Oct 13 18:59:24 <GeneralAntilles> I still see those damn popups all of them time.
Oct 13 18:59:40 <javispedro> that's why I still put my n810 in flight mode & silence at nights.
Oct 13 18:59:41 <GeneralAntilles> All they tell you is that Modest is buggy.
Oct 13 18:59:44 <andre__> tbf: don't know :)
Oct 13 18:59:49 <aSIMULAter> omg kmfdm
Oct 13 18:59:55 * RST38h sighs at the absolutely ridiculous manner in which bugs.maemo.org reports are treated
Oct 13 19:00:00 <tbf> andre__: trying devel - http://talk.maemo.org/forumdisplay.php?f=13
Oct 13 19:00:03 <KMFDM> hey aSIMULAter
Oct 13 19:00:19 <andre__> RST38h, i'm around for direct criticism :-P
Oct 13 19:00:19 <aSIMULAter> hi
Oct 13 19:00:23 <lardman> ok, hopefully that will fix things
Oct 13 19:00:36 * lardman goes for more wine to help the process
Oct 13 19:01:04 <andre__> RST38h, with regard to 5321: nice that it works for you. bad that it does not work for many other people
Oct 13 19:01:06 * fiferboy wonders if the wine is at all related to the process
Oct 13 19:01:38 <aSIMULAter> huh simula
Oct 13 19:01:50 <RST38h> andre: I
Oct 13 19:01:55 <frals> hmm, does it matter if people vote for a "WONTFIX"?
Oct 13 19:02:01 <tbf> weird? do i have to register separately for talk.maemo.org?
Oct 13 19:02:09 <frals> ye tbf
Oct 13 19:02:17 <RST38h> andre: I have moved beyond direct criticism of you because it does not seem to produce any results
Oct 13 19:02:19 <andre__> tbf: SSO is not in place yet i think
Oct 13 19:02:40 <lcuk> besides, shooting the messenger doesnt really solve anything
Oct 13 19:02:42 <andre__> RST38h, well, most of the time I'm only the messenger, yeah
Oct 13 19:02:46 <andre__> heh
Oct 13 19:03:01 <andre__> but I still love getting flamed :-P
Oct 13 19:03:12 <GeneralAntilles> I dunno, I'm still willing to put a few more rounds in andre__ to see if it changes anything. :P
Oct 13 19:03:41 <andre__> GeneralAntilles, just do. I'm also for changing some stuff. But it's complicated. We all know.
Oct 13 19:03:54 <javispedro> andre__: btw, sorry for not putting any patch keyword. today I just realised how to use it :)
Oct 13 19:04:06 <andre__> nokia is not the small startup with 30 people where you can easily change everything...
Oct 13 19:04:19 <frals> does it matter if i vote for a "WONTFIX" or is it like talking to a wall?
Oct 13 19:04:19 <andre__> but i repeat myself :)
Oct 13 19:04:19 <andre__> javispedro, no problem
Oct 13 19:04:26 <frals> *repeats himself*
Oct 13 19:04:42 <lcuk> are you voting for the wontfix or the problem
Oct 13 19:04:44 <qwerty12_N810> /ignore frals
Oct 13 19:04:47 <javispedro> frals: I guess it matters, but I don't think it will appear in the most N reports.
Oct 13 19:05:12 <andre__> basically it does not change anything. but i like the idea to cover also WONTFIX tickets in the statistics. might make sense to show Nokia where they are completely wrong
Oct 13 19:05:20 <andre__> i should consider that
Oct 13 19:05:24 <lcuk> +1
Oct 13 19:05:26 <andre__> because some decisions are just plain braindead
Oct 13 19:05:33 <frals> voting for the bug
Oct 13 19:05:47 <lcuk> the decisions may have been made on the specific request
Oct 13 19:05:57 <lcuk> but with more work a better solution might appear
Oct 13 19:05:59 <Mozillion> hmm, I just cannot find how to set my presence in the SDK so I can get online on Jabber and start doing things :)
Oct 13 19:06:24 <lcuk> ie - fi rst asked for a configuration option instead of just saying its too much ?
Oct 13 19:06:35 <javispedro> this is why I love OSS: because when not even smashing the developer against a wall to force him fix "feature" X, you can fix it yourself! :)
Oct 13 19:06:46 <javispedro> unfortunately, telephaty-ui is closed source :(
Oct 13 19:07:43 <lcuk> even if it were open source, it would be a long path to get anything in the official flashable image
Oct 13 19:07:53 <GeneralAntilles> Does anybody get more than 3 seconds out of this one? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-u2bTy9d0aI
Oct 13 19:08:10 <javispedro> lcuk: but it would solve the hard situation of bug 5321
Oct 13 19:08:16 <frals> GeneralAntilles: i get all 4 seconds
Oct 13 19:08:42 <aSIMULAter> well 4 seconds, but the animation stops at 3 seconds
Oct 13 19:09:10 <javispedro> a novice user may prefer alt A, an advanced user prefers alt B, and Nokia prefers not to clutter the options dialog with settings for user B for reasons I'll never understand but marketdroids might.
Oct 13 19:09:10 <GeneralAntilles> Weird. :\
Oct 13 19:09:10 <frals> yeah same as aSIMULAter i guess
Oct 13 19:09:12 <andre__> bug 5321: a gconf setting would be nice
Oct 13 19:09:12 <andre__> for advanced users to tweak
Oct 13 19:09:22 <andre__> you could reopen and ask for a gconf setting as enhancment.
Oct 13 19:09:31 * GeneralAntilles hasn't had any success with that path.
Oct 13 19:09:48 <javispedro> GeneralAntilles: blender I guess?
Oct 13 19:10:01 <GeneralAntilles> javispedro, Cinema 4D.
Oct 13 19:10:06 <javispedro> ah ,dunoo.
Oct 13 19:10:49 <andre__> yeah. probably it's too deeply in the system and a dirty implementation that would require a lot of work to respect a simple gconf key...
Oct 13 19:11:30 <lcuk> it would be tough to get that right as you say andre__ and especially because its all tied into the real phone too
Oct 13 19:11:53 <javispedro> uh?
Oct 13 19:11:58 <tbf> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=345642
Oct 13 19:12:00 <andre__> yeah :-(
Oct 13 19:12:16 <qwerty12_N810> 3 or 4 lines max, if even that
Oct 13 19:12:19 <andre__> tbf, thanks. feel free to subscribe to that thread too if you want
Oct 13 19:12:27 <javispedro> just put an if(!user_said_no) before hildon_banner_*
Oct 13 19:12:47 <andre__> i see somebody cooking a patch ;-))
Oct 13 19:12:56 <javispedro> it was qwerty12_N810! qwerty12_N810 first!!!
Oct 13 19:12:56 <tbf> Mozillion: but Mission Control is FOSS
Oct 13 19:13:07 <GeneralAntilles> javispedro, movie's fine here, YouTube is having trouble.
Oct 13 19:13:16 <aSIMULAter> good night my open source pals
Oct 13 19:13:20 <tbf> Mozillion: the presence UI just is a frontend for MC
Oct 13 19:13:22 <javispedro> gnite aSIMULAter
Oct 13 19:13:31 <lcuk> gnite aSIMULAter
Oct 13 19:13:41 <qwerty12_N810> andre__: You can't patch source you don't have ;)
Oct 13 19:13:48 <qwerty12_N810> 'night, aSIMULAter
Oct 13 19:14:56 <andre__> yeah. that sucks
Oct 13 19:16:22 <Mozillion> tbf: where is the presence UI? I found the config part... problem is that mc-tool is also not working
Oct 13 19:16:44 <tbf> Mozillion: it's the stuff you access from the status menu to set your presence status
Oct 13 19:16:58 * fiferboy just spent three hours compiling Qt 4.6 alpha, and it fails on the last step!
Oct 13 19:17:21 <Mozillion> ah ok.. but the status menu only has clock+alarms in the SDK AFAIK
Oct 13 19:17:29 <qwerty12_N810> fiferboy: wow, that... nah, forget it: HAHA
Oct 13 19:17:34 <Hydroxide> fiferboy: it's always the last step if it's a fatal error :)
Oct 13 19:18:04 <fiferboy> Hydroxide: Okay, one step before it would have finished :P
Oct 13 19:22:43 <tbf> Mozillion: oh. ok.
Oct 13 19:22:48 <tbf> Mozillion: :-(
Oct 13 19:23:01 <Mozillion> I might just be missing something here
Oct 13 19:23:23 <Mozillion> yesterday when i configured the account it went online immediately :)
Oct 13 19:29:32 * timeless_mbp sighs
Oct 13 19:29:41 <lcuk> fiferboy, speak to mek, he got it working and showed me some cool desktop widgets
Oct 13 19:29:59 <fiferboy> lcuk: The SVG widgets?  Sliders and such?
Oct 13 19:30:19 <Mek> fiferboy: what's the problem?
Oct 13 19:30:20 <lcuk> and i found out the eyes widget uses the accel smoothing i posted to wiki :D
Oct 13 19:30:30 <lcuk> oh, hi mek \o
Oct 13 19:30:34 <Mek> :)
Oct 13 19:30:59 <fiferboy> Mek: I got a dh_strip error on libQt4Core
Oct 13 19:31:25 <Mek> ah, you're trying to actuallly build packages? I didn't do that...
Oct 13 19:31:26 <fiferboy> I basically just downloaded the tech preview and did "dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -nc -b"
Oct 13 19:32:00 <fiferboy> Mek: Yes.  The actual compile went fine.
Oct 13 19:32:03 <Mek> I hadn't even noticed there was a debian directory in there...
Oct 13 19:32:54 <fiferboy> That was the first thing I checked.  I don't like playing around with the config in Qt
Oct 13 19:33:41 <fiferboy> I'm trying it again in case it is a one time thing
Oct 13 19:34:45 <Mek> it might just be that the debian stuff is not yet supposed to work; if they had got it to work why wouldn't they also ahve provided binary packages. Also the build isntructions in the press release told you to compile manually with certain configure options...
Oct 13 19:35:05 <fiferboy> That is true...
Oct 13 19:35:29 <fiferboy> I hadn't thought of why there would be a delay to release binary packages
Oct 13 19:36:53 <Stskeeps> isnt the idea of tech preview to look at src?
Oct 13 19:37:27 <fiferboy> Hmm, same problem.  Trying a make install
Oct 13 19:37:51 <fiferboy> Nope, have to start clean.
Oct 13 19:38:35 <fiferboy> Mek:  What configure line did you use?
Oct 13 19:39:13 <fiferboy> Just -maemo5 -opengl es2?
Oct 13 19:39:14 <Mek> fiferboy: configure -maemo5 -opengl es2 (and I also added a -prefix to specify where I wanted it to install)
Oct 13 19:39:18 <Mek> yeah
Oct 13 19:39:28 <fiferboy> Cool, thanks :)
Oct 13 19:39:35 <Mek> as long as you don't need libQtUiTools and/or qdbuscpp2xml or qdbusxml2cpp that sohuld be enough
Oct 13 19:40:18 <fiferboy> I don't think I need those
Oct 13 19:40:44 <lcuk> yet
Oct 13 19:43:08 <ds3> talk of kcals? hmmmm are we measuring battery output now? ;)
Oct 13 19:47:54 <fiferboy> Mek:  "The EGL functionality test failed!" I installed libgles2-dev and libgl-dev
Oct 13 19:48:07 <fiferboy> This is building for X86 in scratchbox
Oct 13 19:48:45 <Mek> fiferboy: I think installing opengles-sgx-img-common-dev fixed that error for me
Oct 13 19:48:53 <Mek> (but I only did an arm build anyway)
Oct 13 19:52:38 <lbt> o/ fiferboy
Oct 13 19:52:56 <fiferboy> Hey lbt!
Oct 13 19:54:39 <lbt> back home and awake?
Oct 13 19:54:56 * Jaffa plays ever so slightly with Qt Creator on Ubuntu.
Oct 13 19:55:13 <Jaffa> Seems reasonable. Need to work out if I can change its keyboard shortcuts to match Eclipse's.
Oct 13 19:55:30 <Jaffa> lbt: sorry I messed up Maemo_security's talk: page. You may still want to do some housekeeping
Oct 13 19:55:40 <fiferboy> lbt: Indeed.  Well, barely awake ;)
Oct 13 19:56:08 * lbt adds access control to Talk:Maemo_Security and blocks Jaffa
Oct 13 19:58:11 <fiferboy> Mek:  No dice.  Maybe this is a sign I should wait until the binaries are out...
Oct 13 19:58:22 <fiferboy> Although it is weird that the dpkg build didn't have this problem
Oct 13 19:58:24 * GeneralAntilles can't get DoF to play nice.
Oct 13 19:58:25 <GeneralAntilles> Nor YouTube.
Oct 13 20:04:36 <lcuk> Jaffa, settling in period is always the worst for an ide.  vb has a very high benchmark for me, and obviously eclipse for yourself
Oct 13 20:06:34 <fiferboy> Mek:  Actually, that seems to work after cleaning up the directory.  Thanks
Oct 13 20:08:06 <Ceron^> http://kuvaton.com/kuvei/peugeot_art.jpg
Oct 13 20:16:34 <GeneralAntilles> Nice, Media player now shows a banner whenever you open a folder on a UPnP server.
Oct 13 20:18:19 <timeless_mbp> didn't it always do that?
Oct 13 20:18:35 * timeless_mbp waits for crash reporter to send 100 useless reports
Oct 13 20:18:41 <GeneralAntilles> It's new to me.
Oct 13 20:18:46 <GeneralAntilles> and it makes me want to stab my device to death.
Oct 13 20:19:58 <GeneralAntilles> Now why in the world wont it see my movie shares. . . .
Oct 13 20:20:33 <qwerty12_N810> Have you turned its parental filter off?
Oct 13 20:20:57 <GeneralAntilles> Imma turn you off in a second, qwerty12_N810. :P
Oct 13 20:21:08 <luke-jr> same thing
Oct 13 20:21:14 <qwerty12_N810> :(
Oct 13 20:24:25 <fiferboy> Mek:  Did you use -prefix /usr ?
Oct 13 20:24:50 * GeneralAntilles waits to see if any of this wiki talk actually results in any progress this time.
Oct 13 20:24:56 <Mek> fiferboy: no, I installed it all in some seperate prefix in /opt/something
Oct 13 20:26:49 <timeless_mbp> help
Oct 13 20:26:59 <timeless_mbp> anyone here know Spaniards or Latin Americans?
Oct 13 20:27:15 <timeless_mbp> i'm looking for a common male first name for which there's a shorter nick name
Oct 13 20:28:35 <MrGoose1> are you pretending to be someone spanish?
Oct 13 20:28:51 <timeless_mbp> no
Oct 13 20:28:52 <javispedro> timeless: Javier and Javi (proof: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Javi&redirect=no )
Oct 13 20:28:58 <timeless_mbp> thanks
Oct 13 20:29:11 <MrGoose1> timeless you lie
Oct 13 20:30:32 <timeless_mbp> MrGoose1: why would you accuse me of such a thing?
Oct 13 20:30:56 * timeless_mbp quickly issues: /part #mozilla-hispano
Oct 13 20:31:19 <javispedro> lol.
Oct 13 20:31:35 <javispedro> i'm intrigued too.
Oct 13 20:31:39 <qwerty12_N810> The MBP part gives you away. The Spanish use real computers
Oct 13 20:31:50 <lardman> hmm, dh_install: libchamplain-0.4-0 missing files (usr/lib/libchamplain-0.4.so.*), aborting
Oct 13 20:31:56 <javispedro> qwerty12_N810: you wouldn't know.... ;P
Oct 13 20:32:03 * lardman curses debian building for the umpteenth time
Oct 13 20:32:24 <qwerty12_N810> javispedro: What? I can pretend to be Spanish too!
Oct 13 20:32:47 <lardman> Si!
Oct 13 20:32:55 * qwerty12_N810 changes the name displayed on his /whois info
Oct 13 20:33:05 <timeless_mbp> javispedro: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5418
Oct 13 20:34:11 <Firebird> timeless_mbp, what's the expected outcome?
Oct 13 20:34:23 <timeless_mbp> Firebird: that's included somewhere in comment 1
Oct 13 20:34:26 <Firebird> ah
Oct 13 20:34:53 <frals> voting for bugs is a great way to fill your email appearently.. :D
Oct 13 20:34:55 <timeless_mbp> Firebird: do you have a device?
Oct 13 20:35:01 <timeless_mbp> frals: not necessarily
Oct 13 20:35:02 <Firebird> no
Oct 13 20:35:09 <javispedro> ah, you mean instead of examples generic names have been put in the translation...
Oct 13 20:35:18 <timeless_mbp> javispedro: so...
Oct 13 20:35:23 <timeless_mbp> using things instead of names was insane
Oct 13 20:35:28 <timeless_mbp> the English is much worse
Oct 13 20:35:30 <frals> yeah, could change so i dont get notices.. but thats no fun ;P
Oct 13 20:35:45 <timeless_mbp> i'm using David Smith in my English because it's much easier for humans to understand
Oct 13 20:35:46 <qwerty12_N810> frals: Ah, brilliant! You sound like just the person I need for testing my spambot
Oct 13 20:36:00 <thp> is it possible to get the current connection type (wifi, cellular) without having to watch events using conic? (on maemo 5)
Oct 13 20:36:03 <timeless_mbp> the english nokia ships has:
Oct 13 20:36:06 <timeless_mbp> "First name Last name"
Oct 13 20:36:11 <frals> qwerty12_N810: ;D
Oct 13 20:36:18 <timeless_mbp> which is um.... strange
Oct 13 20:36:34 <timeless_mbp> it's also probably poor british english, where it should probably be surname and family name
Oct 13 20:36:41 <timeless_mbp> nyway
Oct 13 20:36:45 <javispedro> well the whole dialog is a mess either way.
Oct 13 20:37:01 <javispedro> with the repeated entry in the screenshot at least.
Oct 13 20:37:39 <javispedro> I'd just remove #3, unless it's common in certain countries.
Oct 13 20:38:26 <timeless_mbp> javispedro: so...
Oct 13 20:38:41 <timeless_mbp> some countries are stupid and really use that format
Oct 13 20:38:49 <timeless_mbp> you can't remove it
Oct 13 20:38:54 <javispedro> then, since I assume localisation can't hide it...
Oct 13 20:38:56 <timeless_mbp> because if a user picks that format and then changes locale to esES
Oct 13 20:39:04 <timeless_mbp> what should the locale show
Oct 13 20:39:09 <timeless_mbp> "you haven't picked a setting" ?
Oct 13 20:39:15 <timeless_mbp> that'd be worse
Oct 13 20:39:16 <javispedro> touché I guess.
Oct 13 20:39:29 <luke-jr> timeless_mbp: "I like pizza"
Oct 13 20:39:39 <timeless_mbp> it could say "Sanchez Javier [no es usado en Espanol]
Oct 13 20:39:44 <timeless_mbp> or something
Oct 13 20:40:00 <javispedro> actually, I'd be fine with the use of "Nombre" & "Apellido".
Oct 13 20:40:02 <timeless_mbp> btw, if Sanchez is a bad choice for a last name, feel free to comment, but please try to keep the comment count low on bugs i file
Oct 13 20:40:13 <timeless_mbp> javispedro: anyway, the English form is really bad
Oct 13 20:40:19 <timeless_mbp> since it has 4 words :)
Oct 13 20:40:28 <javispedro> yeah, Ic.
Oct 13 20:40:31 <Mercury_> Funky issue with my N810, the theme appears to have gotten, screwy.  The hilights for selected areas in the menus are not showing up, making it a whole lot more interesting to use, since you can't tell what is selected.
Oct 13 20:40:34 <timeless_mbp> and i claim the spanish form is bad since the localizer didn't understand what it meant
Oct 13 20:40:36 <Mercury_> Powercycle doesn't seem to help any.
Oct 13 20:40:46 <timeless_mbp> if the localizer can't figure it out, the odds that the user will aren't great
Oct 13 20:40:50 <javispedro> grab a sample name from first contact having both fields filled in?
Oct 13 20:40:58 <javispedro> or from currently selected contact if any.
Oct 13 20:41:02 <timeless_mbp> "Tell Me"
Oct 13 20:41:12 <timeless_mbp> assume "tell" is first name and "me" is last name
Oct 13 20:41:18 <timeless_mbp> and yes, i really have a card like that
Oct 13 20:41:22 <javispedro> lol.
Oct 13 20:41:24 <javispedro> but
Oct 13 20:41:28 <timeless_mbp> +1800555TELL
Oct 13 20:41:29 <timeless_mbp> fwiw
Oct 13 20:41:44 <javispedro> "Tell Me";  "Tell, Me"; "Me, Tell" would be easy.
Oct 13 20:41:46 <timeless_mbp> plus because of the stupid format messes
Oct 13 20:41:56 <javispedro> to understand what's going on I mean.
Oct 13 20:41:58 <timeless_mbp> it's quite likely that people have cards that aren't properly entered :)
Oct 13 20:42:21 <Mercury> Is this a known issue with a known fix? :)
Oct 13 20:42:38 <timeless_mbp> someday i'll find someone w/ 2 contacts "John Doe" and "Doe John" (distinct people w/ the obvious name parsings)
Oct 13 20:42:58 <timeless_mbp> Mercury: change theme?
Oct 13 20:43:07 <timeless_mbp> the device ships w/ 4 iirc
Oct 13 20:43:14 <timeless_mbp> pick one of the other 3 ...
Oct 13 20:43:16 <javispedro> when in doubt, look at how Bill Gates does it (they introduced most computer terms either way)
Oct 13 20:43:53 <timeless_mbp> hrm
Oct 13 20:43:58 <timeless_mbp> i have multilingual w7
Oct 13 20:44:07 <timeless_mbp> but i don't think i have a spare license for outlook
Oct 13 20:44:12 <timeless_mbp> i suppose OWA would work
Oct 13 20:44:29 <Mercury> timeless_mbp: Hrm, worth a shot.
Oct 13 20:45:14 <javispedro> my Palm has a dialog like that and just has "Apellidos, Nombre";"Compañía, Apellidos".
Oct 13 20:45:19 <Mercury> timeless_mbp: Nope, same identical problems.
Oct 13 20:45:22 <javispedro> lastname - firstname , company - lastname
Oct 13 20:46:06 <Mercury> timeless_mbp: The scroll bar in the control panel is also not getting drawn.  It's there and you can interact with it, but it's not being drawn.
Oct 13 20:46:17 <javispedro> Mercury: rebooting?
Oct 13 20:46:19 <timeless_mbp> i don't recognize that bug
Oct 13 20:46:19 <qwerty12_N810> Mercury: Erm, is your problem anything similar to: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=181668 ?
Oct 13 20:46:22 <timeless_mbp> javispedro: he tried
Oct 13 20:46:24 <Mercury> javispedro: Tried that.
Oct 13 20:46:30 <javispedro> ouch.
Oct 13 20:46:37 <Mercury> qwerty12_N810: Reading, one moment.
Oct 13 20:47:32 <Mercury> qwerty12_N810: Yeah, that looks similar.
Oct 13 20:47:46 <Mercury> qwerty12_N810: But I didn't install or update anything before this happened.
Oct 13 20:47:47 <timeless_mbp> qwerty12_N810: glad to see it was filed in talk instead of bugs
Oct 13 20:47:52 <timeless_mbp> this way no one will do anything about it
Oct 13 20:47:55 <javispedro> Outlook grabs the actual first/last names from contact. I knew I used a program that was doing that :)
Oct 13 20:48:18 <qwerty12_N810> Mercury: #2 says installing bash fixed it...
Oct 13 20:48:18 <timeless_mbp> in my case, David Smith is almost certainly in my contacts...
Oct 13 20:48:44 <Mercury> qwerty12_N810: Yeah, doing that now.
Oct 13 20:48:55 <javispedro> timeless: it's a bit more intelligent and if you don't fill the last name it won't show up in the list.
Oct 13 20:49:44 <Mercury> qwerty12_N810: He also changed the /bin/sh symlink, which is, interesting.
Oct 13 20:50:29 <javispedro> (I mean, it only shows "Show contact as: David [end of list]")
Oct 13 20:51:10 <GAN900> timeless_mbp, nobody's going to do anything about it either way. ;)
Oct 13 20:51:26 <javispedro> not the exact same situation though, outlook allows one to set "Show contact as" individually for each contact.
Oct 13 20:51:35 <mikhas> hm, how would I send a file via bluetooth to another device? cant find anything useful in the file manager
Oct 13 20:51:40 <qwerty12_N810> GAN900: You voiced what I was thinking, thank you
Oct 13 20:52:29 <javispedro> oh, cmon. you don't know about that prize Nokia gives you when you report in the # 5000 WONTFIX/ignored bug.
Oct 13 20:52:30 <GAN900> Still, it is 4 karma points. :P
Oct 13 20:53:10 <RST38h> No sense in karma points if nobody is listening
Oct 13 20:56:19 <thp> mikhas: for images use the image viewer's share option
Oct 13 20:56:19 <Mercury> qwerty12_N810: Yep, that fixed it.
Oct 13 20:56:27 <Mercury> qwerty12_N810: I'd love to know what started requiring bash on me.
Oct 13 20:56:41 <thp> mikhas: for everything else, https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5300
Oct 13 20:57:03 <mikhas> thp, thanks!
Oct 13 20:57:06 <qwerty12_N810> Mercury: No idea. I stopped booting from SD because I'd run into race conditions involving themes
Oct 13 20:57:32 <javispedro> sigh. sigh. sigh.
Oct 13 20:57:44 <javispedro> no sending via bluetooth of .txt files?
Oct 13 20:57:57 <javispedro> and the file manager gui is still closed....
Oct 13 20:57:58 <qwerty12_N810> FFS, that is a fucking joke
Oct 13 20:58:00 <mikhas> looks like a potential WONTFIX bug though
Oct 13 20:58:36 <thp> mikhas: please vote for that bug if you want to get it fixed ;)
Oct 13 20:59:05 <qwerty12_N810> thp: I'll vote, but seeing that fixed? Ha!
Oct 13 20:59:06 <mikhas> bribing always worked better than voting, as history has shown ^^
Oct 13 21:00:26 <lardman> jeremiah: ping
Oct 13 21:00:46 <mikhas> I am fine with the sharing approach, from a UX perspective. but then it would have been mandatory for every app that creates data to have a "share" option
Oct 13 21:01:58 <thp> mikhas: well, you can get files on the device without having a app that creates them
Oct 13 21:02:28 <thp> mikhas: example from the summit: i could not send a SNES ROM via bluetooth from the file manager :p
Oct 13 21:03:07 <jeremiah> lardman: pong
Oct 13 21:04:13 <mikhas> hm, can I cron the backup app to do a weekly backup?
Oct 13 21:04:24 <lardman> just wondering if you could give me some help with the accursed Debian build process ;)
Oct 13 21:04:40 <mikhas> hehe, no sharing option either =)
Oct 13 21:04:56 <lardman> jeremiah: am building from this basic source http://packages.debian.org/unstable/libs/libchamplain-0.4-0
Oct 13 21:04:57 <jeremiah> lardman: Heh
Oct 13 21:05:24 <jeremiah> lardman: Did you download the sources with apt-get source?
Oct 13 21:05:29 <jeremiah> Or some other means?
Oct 13 21:05:51 <jeremiah> lardman: That is going to be ugly - lots of depeds
Oct 13 21:05:55 <jeremiah> depends
Oct 13 21:05:59 <lardman> modified compat to equal 5, changed debhelper to >=5 in control and s/libsoup-gnome2.4-dev/libsoup2.4-dev
Oct 13 21:06:24 <lardman> also removed the following from rules: DEB_CONFIGURE_EXTRA_FLAGS := --enable-gtk-doc
Oct 13 21:06:33 <lardman> then it builds, but falls over at dh_install
Oct 13 21:06:37 <jeremiah> I don't think we check the compat file in maemo
Oct 13 21:06:41 <lardman> and I can't see why, as the files seem to be there
Oct 13 21:06:52 <jeremiah> hmm
Oct 13 21:07:01 <lardman> if I don't do that it complains
Oct 13 21:07:07 <lardman> the compat file
Oct 13 21:07:12 <jeremiah> lardman: Can you pastebin your rules file?
Oct 13 21:07:33 <jeremiah> lardman: Are you building with dpkg-buildpacakge?
Oct 13 21:07:33 <lardman> yep
Oct 13 21:07:43 <lardman> sure, will paste bin it all
Oct 13 21:07:46 <jeremiah> Looks like a nice app.
Oct 13 21:07:52 <jeremiah> Would be cool to have it in maemo
Oct 13 21:08:56 <lardman> http://maemo.pastebin.com/m44a98c68
Oct 13 21:09:01 <lardman> yeah, looks pretty useful
Oct 13 21:09:54 <jeremiah> ah, cdbs
Oct 13 21:09:57 <jeremiah> evil
Oct 13 21:10:04 <lardman> oops, need to actually change libsoup-gnome2.4-dev to libsoup2.4-dev
Oct 13 21:10:12 <lardman> yeah, looks it
Oct 13 21:10:17 <jeremiah> Can I try to build libchamplain with a different rules file?
Oct 13 21:10:41 <jeremiah> I assume you don't mind. =]
Oct 13 21:10:41 <lardman> sure
Oct 13 21:10:46 <lardman> no, please go for it :)
Oct 13 21:10:51 <lardman> or send it over and I can try
Oct 13 21:11:02 <jeremiah> Sure;
Oct 13 21:11:25 <lardman> I swear something different goes wrong each time
Oct 13 21:11:34 <lardman> or perhaps I just changed it differently last time
Oct 13 21:11:44 <lardman> complaining about docs dir this time
Oct 13 21:12:02 <jeremiah> heh
Oct 13 21:12:07 <jeremiah> I feel your pain. :)
Oct 13 21:12:11 <lardman> dh_install -plibchamplain-doc
Oct 13 21:12:11 <lardman> cp: cannot stat `.//usr/share/gtk-doc/html/libchamplain': No such file or directory
Oct 13 21:12:18 <lardman> looks like an odd path there...?
Oct 13 21:12:24 <jeremiah> yeah
Oct 13 21:12:38 <jeremiah> Is there an extraneous "/" in the path?
Oct 13 21:12:46 <jeremiah> At the beginning?
Oct 13 21:13:02 <jeremiah> BTW, running with dh_install is the way to go
Oct 13 21:13:13 <jeremiah> Good way to isolate issues
Oct 13 21:13:39 <lardman> do I cd to the debian/tmp dir then do that?
Oct 13 21:14:05 <jeremiah> no, do it from above the debian dir
Oct 13 21:14:34 <lardman> just tried and no surprises it says: [sbox-FREMANTLE_ARMEL: ~/build/map-friends/libchamplain/libchamplain-0.4.0] > dh_install -plibchamplain-doc
Oct 13 21:14:34 <lardman> cp: cannot stat `.//usr/share/gtk-doc/html/libchamplain': No such file or directory
Oct 13 21:14:34 <lardman> dh_install: command returned error code 256
Oct 13 21:14:59 <jeremiah> gtk-docs still causing problems. Hmmm
Oct 13 21:15:24 <lardman> I don't actually want the docs, so I think I just removed them from the control file last time, but this sounds like the same error I was getting trying to dh_install the lib
Oct 13 21:15:46 <lardman> where does it pull the directory from, where it should find the docs?
Oct 13 21:16:11 * jeremiah checks
Oct 13 21:16:32 <jeremiah> Is there a dir called libchamplain-*/docs?
Oct 13 21:16:37 <lardman> I have a libchamplain-doc.install
Oct 13 21:16:44 <lardman> let me check
Oct 13 21:16:54 <jeremiah> The .install is fine
Oct 13 21:17:00 <jeremiah> Looks like you don't have the docs dir
Oct 13 21:17:06 <lardman> yeah, I have libchamplain-0.4.0/docs
Oct 13 21:17:10 <jeremiah> k
Oct 13 21:17:18 <jeremiah> that is not the problem then.
Oct 13 21:17:43 <zerojayn900> anyone else having trouble getting on msn through telepathy-haze and telepathy-butterfly?
Oct 13 21:17:43 <lardman> but it must surely be looking to pull stuff from the temp installation dir?
Oct 13 21:17:43 <lardman> which for me is debian/tmp
Oct 13 21:17:43 <lardman> everything is in there
Oct 13 21:18:14 <jeremiah> I don't think so.
Oct 13 21:18:44 <jeremiah> At least, looking at the same debian sources, I don't see a /tmp dir on my end
Oct 13 21:19:12 <jeremiah> Do you still have libchamplain-doc in your control file?
Oct 13 21:19:37 <lardman> yes it's in there
Oct 13 21:19:39 <jeremiah> And libchamplain-gtk-doc?
Oct 13 21:19:48 <lardman> the tmp dir seems to get generated during the build process
Oct 13 21:20:08 <jeremiah> lardman: Yeah, that is what happens - you may want to run 'debuild clean'
Oct 13 21:20:10 <lardman> yes, that too
Oct 13 21:20:15 <jeremiah> cleans things up a bit
Oct 13 21:20:33 <jeremiah> Didn't you not want to build the docs?
Oct 13 21:20:37 <jeremiah> Or do you not care?
Oct 13 21:20:47 <lbt> any ideas for the best UK contract with an unlimited (VOIP allowed) dataplan. Very low normal phone usage
Oct 13 21:21:18 <lardman> jeremiah: no, I don't really want the docs
Oct 13 21:21:34 <jeremiah> You can try and remove those two sections from the control file and see what happens.
Oct 13 21:21:42 <lardman> ok hang on a tick
Oct 13 21:21:46 <jeremiah> :)
Oct 13 21:22:43 * jeremiah starts installing ten million GNOME dependencies to try to build libchamplain.
Oct 13 21:22:55 <lardman> hmm
Oct 13 21:23:03 <lardman> error, some Makefile.in not found
Oct 13 21:23:16 <lardman> will delete it all and start from dpkg-source -c
Oct 13 21:23:19 <lardman> dpkg-source -x
Oct 13 21:23:22 <jeremiah> cursed autotools
Oct 13 21:23:38 <RST38h> lardman vs libchamplain
Oct 13 21:23:41 <lardman> indeed
Oct 13 21:23:43 <RST38h> Round 2
Oct 13 21:23:52 <jeremiah> Hmm, I am getting a 404 error with libgtk-2.0 dev
Oct 13 21:23:55 <jeremiah> that is weird.
Oct 13 21:23:56 <lardman> oh no, I'm up to round 45 or so, only I need some water now
Oct 13 21:24:03 <jeremiah> Do you have that depends installed?
Oct 13 21:24:15 <lardman> jeremiah: are you building in sb?
Oct 13 21:24:22 <lardman> I didn't have to install much extra
Oct 13 21:24:45 <javispedro> Fight!
Oct 13 21:24:54 <jeremiah> ah
Oct 13 21:24:55 <jeremiah> right
Oct 13 21:25:03 <jeremiah> scratchbox
Oct 13 21:25:06 <lardman> am also building for ARM
Oct 13 21:25:13 <lardman> Fremantle target
Oct 13 21:25:23 <jeremiah> lardman: Latest SDK?
Oct 13 21:25:26 * qwerty12_N810 sits down with the popcorn
Oct 13 21:25:49 <javispedro> btw, do I poke someone to upload maemo-optify to chinook extras or do I upload it without more questions?
Oct 13 21:25:51 <lardman> jeremiah: yep
Oct 13 21:26:00 <jeremiah> Cool.
Oct 13 21:26:12 <jeremiah> :) Just a tiny sanity check on my end.
Oct 13 21:26:12 <qwerty12_N810> javispedro: Ask mvo on maemo-developers
Oct 13 21:26:36 <javispedro> better safe than sorry I guess. maybe there's a reason he didn't upload it to chinook.
Oct 13 21:27:02 <qwerty12_N810> Oh, anyone know where File manager bugs go?
Oct 13 21:27:21 <RST38h> Into the trashbin?
Oct 13 21:27:28 <qwerty12_N810> I've got a simple one which needs fixing
Oct 13 21:27:45 <RST38h> qwerty: It has been openly suggested that community ports/creates its own file manager
Oct 13 21:27:50 <qwerty12_N810> RST38h: Good answer
Oct 13 21:28:08 <javispedro> at least the Diablo file manager was a simple wrapper over hildon-fm (visibily).
Oct 13 21:28:25 <javispedro> now that functionality has been reduced, it should be even simpler.
Oct 13 21:28:25 <lcuk> RST38h, cool, there was a long discussion about an alternative one for n8x0 - maybe wise to revisit that
Oct 13 21:28:38 <qwerty12_N810> Mer would probably appriciate some people fixing FineFM
Oct 13 21:28:42 <lcuk> now with extra horsepower, something which was removed from consideration might now be valid
Oct 13 21:28:44 <RST38h> lcuk: Not worth it unless there is at least one person willing to code it
Oct 13 21:28:49 <lardman> tail end of the output here: http://maemo.pastebin.com/m1c087893
Oct 13 21:28:54 <lardman> failed to find the lib
Oct 13 21:29:25 <jeremiah> Yeah
Oct 13 21:29:36 <jeremiah> Looks like you are missing a lib somewhere.
Oct 13 21:29:36 <lardman> but it is there: http://maemo.pastebin.com/m6d91476e
Oct 13 21:29:56 * RST38h will got watch a movie and fall asleep, g'night ladies and gentlemen
Oct 13 21:29:59 <javispedro> well, check what the install file says.
Oct 13 21:30:02 <javispedro> gnite RST38h
Oct 13 21:30:03 <lardman> night RST38h
Oct 13 21:30:12 <qwerty12_N810> 'night, RST38h
Oct 13 21:30:59 <lcuk> lardman
Oct 13 21:31:00 <lcuk> dh_install: libchamplain-0.4-0 missing files (usr/lib/libchamplain-0.4.so.*), aborting
Oct 13 21:31:05 <lcuk> is missing a proceeding /
Oct 13 21:31:20 <lcuk> if its looking in usr/lib doesnt that mean its not the prop one?
Oct 13 21:31:49 <lcuk> or is that the intent
Oct 13 21:32:19 <lardman> no idea
Oct 13 21:32:22 <jeremiah> I don't understand why it cannot find the lib that is so obviously there.
Oct 13 21:33:16 * lbt looks
Oct 13 21:33:52 <jeremiah> dh_install falls back into looking at debian/tmp
Oct 13 21:34:02 <jeremiah> if it doesn't find them in the current dir
Oct 13 21:34:03 <lardman> the inventor of cdbs should be shot
Oct 13 21:34:08 <jeremiah> indeed
Oct 13 21:34:14 <SpeedEvil> lardmanwhy?
Oct 13 21:34:25 <jeremiah> (we basically banned cdbs in debian-perl)
Oct 13 21:34:35 <qwerty12_N810> jeremiah: Good choice
Oct 13 21:34:48 <qwerty12_N810> Glad to see I'm not the only one who thinks it is a shitpile
Oct 13 21:34:53 <lardman> SpeedEvil: too opaque
Oct 13 21:35:07 <jeremiah> Opaque and very faily
Oct 13 21:36:16 <lardman> gnome-pkg-tools, I wonder if that's a bad thing
Oct 13 21:36:35 <lardman> as in: include /usr/share/gnome-pkg-tools/1/rules/uploaders.mk in rules
Oct 13 21:37:00 <jeremiah> You should be able to eliminate that as a depends I feel
Oct 13 21:37:12 <jeremiah> Hmm. Maybe not
Oct 13 21:37:40 <SpeedEvil> lardman: how else do you work out what's on a cd?
Oct 13 21:37:45 <SpeedEvil> oh - nvm.
Oct 13 21:37:49 * SpeedEvil should wake up.
Oct 13 21:37:52 <SpeedEvil> not cddbs
Oct 13 21:38:38 <lardman> ah :)
Oct 13 21:38:42 <lardman> np, is late
Oct 13 21:38:50 <jeremiah> lardman: http://maemo.pastebin.com/m1c769ffd
Oct 13 21:38:58 <jeremiah> ^ A smaller rules file that does not use CDBS
Oct 13 21:39:09 <jeremiah> Maybe useful?
Oct 13 21:39:15 <lardman> sure
Oct 13 21:39:35 <jeremiah> Meanwhile, I have to install the latest SDK so I can catch up with you.
Oct 13 21:39:45 <lardman> ok
Oct 13 21:40:06 * jeremiah fires up VirtualBox
Oct 13 21:40:08 <lardman> well you've certainly peaked on the smallness there
Oct 13 21:40:12 <jeremiah> heh
Oct 13 21:40:23 <jeremiah> It just passes everything to debhelper
Oct 13 21:40:43 <jeremiah> Which makes things easier to debug, (realtively speaking)
Oct 13 21:40:53 <lbt> dh 7
Oct 13 21:41:02 <lbt> is that suported?
Oct 13 21:41:20 <lardman> no, I change it to 5
Oct 13 21:41:29 <jeremiah> ah
Oct 13 21:41:31 <lbt> jeremiah's rules was dh 7
Oct 13 21:41:35 <jeremiah> Yeah
Oct 13 21:41:41 <jeremiah> Only works with dh 7
Oct 13 21:41:43 <jeremiah> Shit.
Oct 13 21:41:46 <lardman> oh
Oct 13 21:41:48 <lbt> :(
Oct 13 21:42:06 <lbt> upload dh 7... ;)
Oct 13 21:42:38 <lardman> dpkg-checkbuilddeps: Unmet build dependencies: debhelper (>= 7)
Oct 13 21:42:50 <lardman> I tried that, but not really knowing what it is, I failed
Oct 13 21:42:52 <jeremiah> Yep. Fooey.
Oct 13 21:42:55 <lardman> was a while back
Oct 13 21:43:05 <jeremiah> Okay.
Oct 13 21:43:37 <jeremiah> I am going to try and package this on the latest SDK too, see if another pair of eyes can't help.
Oct 13 21:43:51 <lardman> ok
Oct 13 21:44:00 <lardman> I'm going to hit the sack I'm afraid
Oct 13 21:44:17 <solarion> lardman: night
Oct 13 21:44:23 <jeremiah> lardman: np - I understand. :)
Oct 13 21:44:39 <jeremiah> Hope to have some progress for you tomorrow, if not, let's try again?
Oct 13 21:44:42 <lardman> I think my pastebin had the necessary details of any changes, and you'll be better anyway
Oct 13 21:44:43 <lcuk> gnite lardman (wow, slow exit for once!)
Oct 13 21:44:57 <lardman> jeremiah: yep sounds good; thanks and good lucj
Oct 13 21:44:59 <lardman> luck
Oct 13 21:45:03 <lardman> right, night all :)
Oct 13 21:45:07 <jeremiah> My birthday tomorrow so I can't guarntee I'll be around much though. :)
Oct 13 21:47:36 <GeneralAntilles> jeremiah too?
Oct 13 21:47:43 <GeneralAntilles> Damn, EVERYBODY's birthday is around now.
Oct 13 21:49:13 <lcuk> well, its cold in winter
Oct 13 21:49:19 <lcuk> lots of parents snuggle for warmth
Oct 13 21:50:41 <jeremiah> heh
Oct 13 21:50:42 <jeremiah> w00t
Oct 13 21:50:45 <GeneralAntilles> lcuk, that makes no sense. :P
Oct 13 21:50:56 <jeremiah> no, it doesn't.
Oct 13 21:51:14 <lcuk> if you screw in winter, little jeremiahs pop out around now
Oct 13 21:51:27 <wazd> any paintball players in here? :)
Oct 13 21:51:38 <GeneralAntilles> January is barely winter here, I guess.
Oct 13 21:54:25 <VDVsx> wazd, why ? I used to play paintball ;)
Oct 13 21:55:37 * GeneralAntilles used to but then found the real thing. ;)
Oct 13 21:55:46 <jeremiah> What do people usually do? Do you guys remove scratchbox and re-install when there is a new SDK? Or do you just install over the old one?
Oct 13 21:56:14 <qwerty12_N810> lardman|gone: DEB_DH_INSTALL_SOURCEDIR = debian/tmp
Oct 13 21:56:22 <qwerty12_N810> Add that to rules
Oct 13 21:56:53 <VDVsx> GeneralAntilles, you use real guns now ? :P
Oct 13 21:56:58 <jeremiah> I think he pulled that out of rules
Oct 13 21:57:05 <jeremiah> qwerty12_N810: So that in fact may be the problem. :)
Oct 13 21:57:30 <qwerty12_N810> jeremiah: Yep, dh_install under compat level 5 does not go for debian/tmo
Oct 13 21:57:32 <qwerty12_N810> *tmp
Oct 13 21:57:47 <jeremiah> qwerty12_N810: Good catch.
Oct 13 21:58:12 <wazd> VDVsx: I was invited to play with my gf :)
Oct 13 21:58:31 <wazd> VDVsx: never played before, but I'm good in deep tactical shooters :D
Oct 13 21:58:47 <VDVsx> wazd, she will kick your ass ;)
Oct 13 21:59:22 <wazd> VDVsx: I think we'll be in the same team :)
Oct 13 21:59:44 <VDVsx> wazd, that's not fun ;)
Oct 13 22:00:18 <jeremiah> Yay!
Oct 13 22:00:26 <jeremiah> It is officially my birthday. :)
Oct 13 22:00:56 * qwerty12_N810 will jump +1 hour forward and say: Happy Birthday
Oct 13 22:01:13 <Macer> hm
Oct 13 22:01:18 <Macer> http://www.linuxfordevices.com/c/a/News/Atmel-SAM9G45EK/
Oct 13 22:02:08 <javispedro> happy bday :)
Oct 13 22:02:21 <javispedro> thp: what have you done!
Oct 13 22:02:39 <javispedro> https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5300#c2
Oct 13 22:02:45 <GeneralAntilles> VDVsx, yeah, more expensive but much better stress relief. ;)
Oct 13 22:02:46 <jeremiah> Thanks dudes.
Oct 13 22:02:48 <GeneralAntilles> jeremiah, congrats.
Oct 13 22:03:22 <VDVsx> jeremiah, happy b-day :)
Oct 13 22:03:25 <qwerty12_N810> javispedro: Alas, he's right
Oct 13 22:04:03 <javispedro> of course.
Oct 13 22:04:34 <javispedro> Having $a capability is a necessity for $a in $b
Oct 13 22:06:52 <VDVsx> wazd, when I used to play there was basically three types of paintball players - Rambo player (don't hide from anyone and shoot in all directions), Ghost player (walk a bit then hide and evaluate the environment - repeat) and the stuck/hidden player (make a camping somewhere and wait for the other players)
Oct 13 22:07:30 <VDVsx> but also depends on the type of game (free for all, capture the flag,...), you can adopt other tactics :)
Oct 13 22:07:31 <GAN900> Hehe
Oct 13 22:08:07 <GAN900> Ghost is the way to do it. ;)
Oct 13 22:08:18 <javispedro> behold
Oct 13 22:08:22 <javispedro> the first IPv6 URI
Oct 13 22:08:28 <javispedro> I ever seen publicy posted
Oct 13 22:08:35 <javispedro> http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=345762&postcount=3
Oct 13 22:08:45 <qwerty12_N810> Ultimately: Voting for the bug is pointless. The whole Maemo Community could vote for it and you know just as well as I that Nokia are gonna do sweet-fuck all about it. :)
Oct 13 22:08:48 <GAN900> And, yeah, tactical shooter experience doesn't translate over immediately since you don't have the muscle memory when you first start out.
Oct 13 22:08:59 <wazd> VDVsx: haven't seen the map yet :)
Oct 13 22:09:28 <GAN900> They'll dismiss it with some vague allusion to the spec.
Oct 13 22:09:35 <wazd> GAN900: well, at least I won't rush out :)
Oct 13 22:10:29 <wazd> GAN900: and I hope to perform some tactics moves in the field :)
Oct 13 22:10:56 <javispedro> qwerty12_N810: why do anything if you're going to throw everything and switch to qt either way.
Oct 13 22:11:08 <mikhas> qwerty12_N810, the fix is easy: write a better file manager replacement =) I've seen at least one attempt in the extra-devel repo
Oct 13 22:11:28 <GAN900> Actually, that's a good point.
Oct 13 22:11:41 <mikhas> who says you cannot port the current software stack to maemo6?
Oct 13 22:12:10 <qwerty12_N810> javispedro: This isn't Diablo and FiF: Nokia are gonna be selling these devices now
Oct 13 22:12:35 <javispedro> mikhas: i don't. i just mean that the fremantle file manager will not be ported but rewritten in qt for m6.
Oct 13 22:12:41 <qwerty12_N810> mikhas: It shouldn't have to be done for a feature that I can find on my N810 :)
Oct 13 22:13:28 <b-man17> qwerty12_N810: has anyone built dosbox for fremantle yet?
Oct 13 22:13:37 * qwerty12_N810 points to javispedro 
Oct 13 22:13:43 * javispedro hides
Oct 13 22:13:46 <javispedro> b-man17: yes.
Oct 13 22:13:47 <b-man17> lol
Oct 13 22:13:52 <b-man17> ok :)
Oct 13 22:13:53 <qwerty12_N810> Although pointing is rude, and I apologise
Oct 13 22:14:26 <javispedro> it's on extras-devel. missing keyboard mapping, but rest should work "as on diablo".
Oct 13 22:15:23 <javispedro> well, going to bed. see you.
Oct 13 22:15:24 * b-man17 is looking for stuff that hasn't been ported yet ;)
Oct 13 22:15:53 <qwerty12_N810> 'night, javispedro
Oct 13 22:18:46 <b-man17> i don�t think anyone has ported Basiliskii yet, although i don�t think it would be of any use...
Oct 13 22:38:25 <Shapeshifter> mhh, anyone with experience with android coding? I'll definetly get an n900 so I'm already programming small apps that appear useful to me, and one involves curl. A friend with a htc hero then asked me how I did it and mentioned curl, and we did a search on how to code stuff on android using curl but apparently there's no curl for android. and no wget, and nothing really, that one would know from linux.
Oct 13 22:38:47 <Shapeshifter> so, it's not really of any use that android is linux based.
Oct 13 22:38:49 <GeneralAntilles> lol
Oct 13 22:38:52 <Shapeshifter> or is it
Oct 13 22:38:57 <GeneralAntilles> Gotta love Android.
Oct 13 22:39:55 <xzsh> Linux without everything ppl associate with linux :(
Oct 13 22:40:12 <Shapeshifter> http://developer.android.com/guide/topics/ui/dialogs.html now THAT is NOT a lot of dialogs, is it.
Oct 13 22:40:40 <xzsh> and monocultured language
Oct 13 22:40:49 <xzsh> only their java, which isn't java
Oct 13 22:41:11 <Shapeshifter> oh noes, java - and then it's not even java?
Oct 13 22:41:40 <Shapeshifter> "Each process has its own Java virtual machine (VM), so application code runs in isolation from the code of all other applications"
Oct 13 22:41:54 <Shapeshifter> >.>
Oct 13 22:42:22 <xzsh> Shapeshifter: It's Java, the language, but with their own libs and stuff
Oct 13 22:48:52 <lbt> finished well over 70 builds now
Oct 13 22:49:15 <lbt> wrong chan
Oct 13 22:50:23 <GeneralAntilles> Get out of here with your Mer garbage, you hoodlum!
Oct 13 22:51:52 * lbt skulks off
Oct 13 22:52:11 <lbt> and takes his Mer 3D drivers for N800s with him...
Oct 13 22:52:30 <Shapeshifter> https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5346 why are there still only 3 votes on this
Oct 13 22:52:38 <Shapeshifter> (app manager being burried)
Oct 13 22:53:02 <GeneralAntilles> Hey! Those aren't yours!
Oct 13 22:53:35 <GeneralAntilles> Shapeshifter, because voting is too hard, there's little evidence that it actually helps and thus people are apathetic. ;)
Oct 13 22:53:43 <Shapeshifter> GeneralAntilles: one is.
Oct 13 22:54:04 <Shapeshifter> ah well.
Oct 13 22:54:20 <lbt> Shapeshifter: the Ovi boss wants an ovi logo on *EVERY* screen
Oct 13 22:54:38 <lbt> the pushy nature of it makes me uncomfortable
Oct 13 22:54:48 <Shapeshifter> I don't really think it will have a negative impact on community work anyway. of course clueless end users will miss out on a better experience and instead nag about the stupid ovi hyperlink, but this really is nokias loss
Oct 13 22:55:19 <GeneralAntilles> lbt, but if we don't have Ovi, how will we connect to our friends and family with Nokia devices?
Oct 13 22:55:39 <Shapeshifter> over IRC
Oct 13 22:55:41 * zerojay yaaaaaaaaaaaaawns.
Oct 13 22:56:02 <GeneralAntilles> zerojay, I keep forgetting to snap the good meals.
Oct 13 22:56:02 * lbt pops a fly in zerojay's mouth
Oct 13 22:56:12 <zerojay> GeneralAntilles: Shit. I just forgot too.
Oct 13 22:56:22 <Shapeshifter> mhh. instead of the 4 desktops side by side, a desktop wall ala compiz/osx would be nice as well.
Oct 13 22:56:42 * Shapeshifter uses 3x3 wall.
Oct 13 22:56:57 <Shapeshifter> meh.
Oct 13 22:57:27 * Shapeshifter ponders on on ordering now or waiting some more.
Oct 13 22:57:42 <GeneralAntilles> Order!
Oct 13 22:57:50 <GeneralAntilles> Order what?
Oct 13 22:58:00 * ShadowJK used to use 3x3 until gnome and kde feature purges killed it
Oct 13 22:58:01 <DocScrutinizer-8> bah
Oct 13 22:58:29 <Shapeshifter> GeneralAntilles: well, THE phone. the price dropped at my preferred shop just yesterday by 50 bucks. maybe it'll drop some more. but that's rather unlikely
Oct 13 22:58:44 <GeneralAntilles> Order!
Oct 13 22:59:00 <DocScrutinizer-8> I ordered 5 weeks ago :-/
Oct 13 22:59:13 <Shapeshifter> it's now at 739chf instead of 779chf.
Oct 13 22:59:18 <Shapeshifter> well that's 40 bucks.
Oct 13 22:59:25 <Shapeshifter> I failed math
Oct 13 23:00:38 <Shapeshifter> GeneralAntilles: have you tried ovi maps?
Oct 13 23:00:43 <Shapeshifter> and is it utter garbage?
Oct 13 23:00:56 <GeneralAntilles> Shapeshifter, it makes me want to gouge out my eyes then chop off the ends of my fingers.
Oct 13 23:00:56 <zerojay> extras-testing is broken again... the Release file.
Oct 13 23:01:04 <zerojay> What is causing this breakage anyways?
Oct 13 23:01:26 <GeneralAntilles> X-Fade, said race condition last time due to load.
Oct 13 23:01:49 <GeneralAntilles> s/,//
Oct 13 23:01:49 <infobot> GeneralAntilles meant: X-Fade said race condition last time due to load.
Oct 13 23:01:50 <Shapeshifter> GeneralAntilles: ouch
Oct 13 23:02:06 <GeneralAntilles> Shapeshifter, maybe it'll get better.
Oct 13 23:02:13 <GeneralAntilles> Shapeshifter, Maemo Mapper is certainly coming.
Oct 13 23:02:23 <zerojay> GeneralAntilles: At least that's one thing I shouldn't need to worry about causing. lol
Oct 13 23:02:34 <zerojay> maemo.org is fucked.
Oct 13 23:02:45 <GeneralAntilles> Indeed
Oct 13 23:02:48 <zerojay> can't login... wiki's down.. everything's fucked.
Oct 13 23:02:48 <GeneralAntilles> We need more servers.
Oct 13 23:03:41 <zerojay> Imagine once it's actually in the public's hands.
Oct 13 23:04:10 <Shapeshifter> I find it a bit daft that on this maemo application site where all the os 200x apps are, clicking on screenshots doesn't enlarge them
Oct 13 23:04:14 <GeneralAntilles> Tero's working on it, but not sure what the timeline is at this point.
Oct 13 23:09:25 <wazd> GeneralAntilles: so, you're good in 3D animation? ;)
Oct 13 23:09:42 <GeneralAntilles> wazd, I'm OK at 3D, not so good at animation.
Oct 13 23:09:56 <GeneralAntilles> Competent but frequently uninspired. ;)
Oct 13 23:10:47 <wazd> GeneralAntilles: how long should start up video be?
Oct 13 23:11:20 <GeneralAntilles> About 3-5 seconds
Oct 13 23:11:39 <wazd> GeneralAntilles: nice :)
Oct 13 23:12:22 <wazd> GeneralAntilles: the only video I've made in my life was my Lineage II raid coverage :)
Oct 13 23:12:41 <GeneralAntilles> lol
Oct 13 23:12:56 <VDVsx> wazd, btw -> http://www.flickr.com/photos/sjgadsby/3998092078/  ;)
Oct 13 23:13:14 <wazd> GeneralAntilles: If you can tell me where to upload it instead of vimeo I can show it - 5 minutes of fame :D
Oct 13 23:13:27 <wazd> VDVsx: :D
Oct 13 23:13:31 <GeneralAntilles> YouTube?
Oct 13 23:13:42 <wazd> VDVsx: thanks for mentioning me :)
Oct 13 23:14:33 <VDVsx> wazd, I wasn't the only one ;) Vlad did the same
Oct 13 23:16:02 <wazd> GeneralAntilles: well, first time youtube removed the sound :)
Oct 13 23:16:25 <wazd> GeneralAntilles: uploading again now
Oct 13 23:16:55 <bfrog> so if n900 doesn't officially have some notes about a maemo 6 upgrade, which device will be available with maemo 6 and when?
Oct 13 23:17:14 <wazd> bfrog: in 2035, neurochip
Oct 13 23:17:20 <bfrog> like if I wanted to buy a device and work on maemo, which one would I buy
Oct 13 23:17:20 <GeneralAntilles> bfrog, Maemo 6 is q2 2010 timeframe.
Oct 13 23:17:51 <kr1shnak> thats the question I am pondering also
Oct 13 23:18:16 <bfrog> because I don't really want to work on something thats going to be obsolete in 6 months
Oct 13 23:18:20 <kr1shnak> I have an N800, but maemo 5 doesnt run on it
Oct 13 23:18:35 <kr1shnak> and the N900 sounds like its going to be obsoleted pretty quickly imo
Oct 13 23:18:38 <VDVsx> well depends how long you guys want to wait, I guess
Oct 13 23:18:50 <wazd> GeneralAntilles: I bet it will be the most extraordinary game fan movie you've ever seen :D
Oct 13 23:19:07 <zerojay> GeneralAntilles: Maemo 6 BETA is q2 2010 timeframe
Oct 13 23:19:15 <bfrog> I mean, I'm sure its a nice device and everything... seeing its a nokia device
Oct 13 23:19:24 <wazd> kr1shnak: maemo 6 will be first device to be based on Qt
Oct 13 23:19:35 <wazd> kr1shnak: better wait for maemo 7
Oct 13 23:19:39 <bfrog> but I almost feel like my next phone will be the palm pre instead of a nokia phone
Oct 13 23:19:59 <VDVsx> wazd, nah, maemo 8 is so much awesome
Oct 13 23:20:06 <kr1shnak> well I wish I had the £500 quid to burn, but I dont
Oct 13 23:20:10 <bfrog> yeah
Oct 13 23:20:17 <Shapeshifter> I think obsolete is a bit exagerrated. You can already develop Qt applications for maemo 5 and I expect them to run fairly well on maemo6, while I'm certain that gtk apps will still run on maemo6.
Oct 13 23:20:19 <bfrog> if only the phones were free
Oct 13 23:20:22 <lbt> night all
Oct 13 23:20:27 <wazd> VDVsx: I've just tested maemo 9 alpha - maemo 8 sucks balls :D
Oct 13 23:20:31 <Shapeshifter> kr1shnak: ^
Oct 13 23:20:38 <wazd> lbt: c ya
Oct 13 23:20:40 <kr1shnak> right
Oct 13 23:21:11 <VDVsx> wazd, f***, god damn you eldar !!
Oct 13 23:21:27 <kr1shnak> I think I will start with developing on the emulator and maybe talking to Nokia about a loan device when I have an app in a testable state
Oct 13 23:21:37 <wazd> GeneralAntilles: nope, removed audio again
Oct 13 23:21:45 <wazd> GeneralAntilles: any other options?)
Oct 13 23:22:07 <bfrog> I can buy a laptop these days for less money
Oct 13 23:22:19 <VDVsx> kr1shnak, there will be a developer discount program soon for the n900
Oct 13 23:22:32 <Shapeshifter> VDVsx: how to qualify?
Oct 13 23:22:35 <wazd> bfrog: then buy a laptop
Oct 13 23:22:38 <bfrog> ooooooh
Oct 13 23:22:40 <bfrog> discount?
Oct 13 23:22:44 <bfrog> as in free to $100 ?
Oct 13 23:22:55 <kr1shnak> interesting
Oct 13 23:23:24 <kr1shnak> I will keep an eye out for it. But for getting started the emulator should be fine
Oct 13 23:23:24 <wazd> developer program works for existing developers, as Quim said, not future
Oct 13 23:23:34 <VDVsx> Shapeshifter, karma or a good application on extras
Oct 13 23:23:37 <kr1shnak> right
Oct 13 23:25:25 <VDVsx> more info about the last discount program(n810) here: http://flors.wordpress.com/2007/10/19/n810-maemo-device-program/
Oct 13 23:26:30 <bfrog> why did maemo even start off with gtk+ and then suddenly decide Qt was actually the right thing anyways?
Oct 13 23:26:35 <bfrog> license?
Oct 13 23:26:42 <zerojay> Because they bought QT.
Oct 13 23:26:55 <zerojay> Trolltech, I mean.
Oct 13 23:27:16 <timeless_mbp> cost
Oct 13 23:27:21 <timeless_mbp> Gtk was free
Oct 13 23:27:25 <zerojay> So the switch is probably meant as a way to allow developers to write apps across all platforms cheaper and easier.
Oct 13 23:27:33 <bfrog> Qt has always been free
Oct 13 23:27:43 <timeless_mbp> not for commercial use
Oct 13 23:27:50 <bfrog> where are the maemo commercial apps?
Oct 13 23:27:58 <timeless_mbp> um
Oct 13 23:28:02 <qwerty12_N810> lol
Oct 13 23:28:05 <timeless_mbp> the Nokia 770 was a commercial product
Oct 13 23:28:18 <timeless_mbp> 99% of the ui was closed initially i suppose
Oct 13 23:28:46 <zerojay> Get the feeling Karoliina would be a good person to ask. ;)
Oct 13 23:31:46 <timeless_mbp> bfrog: otoh
Oct 13 23:31:56 <timeless_mbp> if you want to, you can buy Navicore in a nice box for your n800
Oct 13 23:32:00 <timeless_mbp> or 770
Oct 13 23:32:07 <timeless_mbp> so that is definitely a commercial application
Oct 13 23:32:27 <timeless_mbp> otoh, since it isn't built around Qt, the fact that Qt required at one time a commercial license is not a particularly interesting detail
Oct 13 23:32:30 <bfrog> sounds like a google maps I have to pay for?
Oct 13 23:32:38 <timeless_mbp> um
Oct 13 23:32:48 <timeless_mbp> ever used Google Maps while in Canada or Ukraine?
Oct 13 23:32:48 <wazd> blip.tv saved the day
Oct 13 23:32:53 <timeless_mbp> you have to pay for those too
Oct 13 23:33:02 <timeless_mbp> generally the price is quite high
Oct 13 23:33:16 <timeless_mbp> i'm not sure which is higher, but ... believe me, you don't want to find out
Oct 13 23:34:06 <timeless_mbp> fwiw, Navicore supported auditory turn by turn directions
Oct 13 23:34:10 <VDVsx> pay for google maps ? oh god
Oct 13 23:34:22 <timeless_mbp> Google Maps to my knowledge doesn't do that, although it's possible there's a mash up for it
Oct 13 23:34:30 <timeless_mbp> VDVsx: it's called paying for GPRS data
Oct 13 23:34:34 <timeless_mbp> generally by the kilobyte
Oct 13 23:34:47 <VDVsx> ah ok, lol
Oct 13 23:34:52 <timeless_mbp> Google Maps data is not generally cached, pre caching it is generally a violation of ToS
Oct 13 23:35:03 <VDVsx> I know ;)
Oct 13 23:35:17 * VDVsx downloads 1,6 gb of maps data :P
Oct 13 23:35:21 <timeless_mbp> any other stupid questions?
Oct 13 23:35:43 <ShadowJK> navicore is really useful, shame the maps haven't been updated since january2008 (atleast not for scandinavia)
Oct 13 23:35:44 <timeless_mbp> sorry, i get slightly annoyed when people think that everything in life is free
Oct 13 23:36:02 <timeless_mbp> ShadowJK: i was pleasantly surprised that they had a couple of updates
Oct 13 23:36:09 <timeless_mbp> that's better than a lot of things i've used
Oct 13 23:36:09 * SpeedEvil had a free lunch today.
Oct 13 23:36:19 <timeless_mbp> i got something like a free dinner
Oct 13 23:36:21 <bfrog> eh, I blame google
Oct 13 23:36:25 <timeless_mbp> but it was a house call
Oct 13 23:36:33 <ShadowJK> tomtom seems to do monthly updates or something
Oct 13 23:36:36 <SpeedEvil> Tesco delivered one slightly dodgy chicken legs - one pack of 4 - and refunded me for 2.
Oct 13 23:36:38 <timeless_mbp> which included walking to/from, plus servicing two laptops
Oct 13 23:36:41 <qwerty12_N810> SpeedEvil: Check to see if both your kidneys are still there
Oct 13 23:36:46 <ShadowJK> but their stuff only runs on their own devices basically
Oct 13 23:37:23 <ShadowJK> (and they charge for map updates)
Oct 13 23:37:28 <timeless_mbp> bfrog: how can you blame google for your ignorance of data costs?
Oct 13 23:37:58 <Shapeshifter> bfrog: huh I don't get it. You're paying for data transfer, not for google maps
Oct 13 23:38:25 <bfrog> timeless_mbp: ok, in that case, I blame a lack of competition and poor foresight by the cell phone carriers
Oct 13 23:38:36 <timeless_mbp> um
Oct 13 23:38:44 <RichiH> Warning: pg_connect() [function.pg-connect]: Unable to connect to PostgreSQL server: FATAL: connection limit exceeded for non-superusers in /usr/local/lib/mediawiki_1.12.0/extensions/GForgeAuthentication/GForgeAuthenticationPlugin.php on line 15
Oct 13 23:38:45 <RichiH>  Couldn't authenticate against garage. (DB problem)
Oct 13 23:38:48 <timeless_mbp> in most of europe, i blame the EU for their insane attempts to mess with the market
Oct 13 23:38:53 <zerojay> RichiH: Yes, we know.
Oct 13 23:38:55 <RichiH> someone fix wiki.maemo.org please
Oct 13 23:38:59 <RichiH> zerojay: ah, k
Oct 13 23:39:01 <RichiH> sorry, then
Oct 13 23:39:22 <timeless_mbp> in Canada, i think it's a combination of lack of competition and stupid legislative attempts at regulation
Oct 13 23:39:37 <RichiH> in that case, i will ask in here :p
Oct 13 23:39:39 <Shapeshifter> timeless_mbp: blame the EU for what?
Oct 13 23:39:45 <timeless_mbp> bfrog: i don't see how you can blame a carrier for wanting to make money
Oct 13 23:39:51 <crashanddie> in Soviet Russia, lack of competition combines YOU!
Oct 13 23:39:59 <RichiH> is there an eta for a Mer release (or a somewhat stable snapshot)?
Oct 13 23:40:00 <ShadowJK> Myabe she should threaten with banning the pairing of devices and contracts/operators :-)
Oct 13 23:40:05 <bfrog> timeless_mbp: its not that they shouldn't, they should, but they should also not rip me off
Oct 13 23:40:18 <Shapeshifter> bfrog: who's ripping you off for what?
Oct 13 23:40:27 <crashanddie> RichiH, why do I know your nickname?
Oct 13 23:40:30 <bfrog> cell phone companies
Oct 13 23:40:32 * Shapeshifter is confused
Oct 13 23:40:33 <timeless_mbp> what the market will bear
Oct 13 23:40:34 <bfrog> like text messages...
Oct 13 23:40:41 <bfrog> charging extra for that
Oct 13 23:40:46 <Shapeshifter> bfrog: huh? >.>
Oct 13 23:40:48 <bfrog> or small amounts of data, when voice takes up lots more
Oct 13 23:40:49 <bfrog> is stupid
Oct 13 23:40:58 <RichiH> crashanddie: how would i know?
Oct 13 23:41:04 <Shapeshifter> bfrog: why is that stupid?
Oct 13 23:41:17 <bfrog> so they're charging me for something that costs them nothing?
Oct 13 23:41:18 <Shapeshifter> bfrog: do you expect them to just give the service to you for free?
Oct 13 23:41:18 <crashanddie> RichiH, hak5 ring a bell?
Oct 13 23:41:22 * timeless_mbp blames users for using services that they shouldn't use
Oct 13 23:41:33 <timeless_mbp> encouraging providers to gouge you is entirely your fault
Oct 13 23:41:37 <timeless_mbp> stop feeding them
Oct 13 23:41:45 <bfrog> I don't feed them
Oct 13 23:41:47 <Shapeshifter> bfrog: and what has this to do with google maps again? maybe I missed the point
Oct 13 23:41:50 <timeless_mbp> vote with your wallet
Oct 13 23:42:04 <bfrog> I have an awesome plan, unlimited everything $30/mo
Oct 13 23:42:06 <SpeedEvil> timeless_mbp: And be entirely ignored as you're not purchasing services.
Oct 13 23:42:09 <luke-jr> bfrog: it's society in general these days
Oct 13 23:42:15 <SpeedEvil> timeless: some countries are simply bad value
Oct 13 23:42:16 <RichiH> crashanddie: it does, but not a large one. i.e. i don't often visit the site or anything
Oct 13 23:42:24 <Shapeshifter> bfrog: do you have any clue about how phone companies run?
Oct 13 23:42:30 <ShadowJK> ever since I started using data, my monthly fee has staid approx the same but my use has gone from 20 megs/month to >20 gigs per month :-)
Oct 13 23:42:38 <crashanddie> RichiH, never mind then, my memory playing tricks on me
Oct 13 23:42:41 <Shapeshifter> bfrog: at least in this country, their margins are extremely low
Oct 13 23:42:42 <timeless_mbp> SpeedEvil: well... you can try to sponsor a competing network
Oct 13 23:42:43 <luke-jr> bfrog: everyone thinks they're entitled to your money, not merely an equal trade
Oct 13 23:42:51 <RichiH> timeless_mbp: unless "you" are _many_ or you pay them lots of money, they will not care
Oct 13 23:42:53 <SpeedEvil> timeless; huh?
Oct 13 23:42:58 <SpeedEvil> timeless: there are none
Oct 13 23:43:06 <timeless_mbp> which country are you in?
Oct 13 23:43:11 <Shapeshifter> bfrog: when the subsidise a phone for a new contract, they make practically no money for the first year
Oct 13 23:43:20 <crashanddie> oh bollocks that
Oct 13 23:43:22 <RichiH> crashanddie: i am freenode staff and oftc netrep, so it's not unusual for me to pop up in various places
Oct 13 23:43:28 <SpeedEvil> timeless: All the companies - in the UK - charge a more or less comparable rate.
Oct 13 23:43:29 <timeless_mbp> for SMS, there's Google Talk, Skype, AIM, ICQ, QQ
Oct 13 23:43:38 <crashanddie> RichiH, aaah, ircop, there you go
Oct 13 23:43:38 <timeless_mbp> SpeedEvil: that's the EU's fault
Oct 13 23:43:42 <SpeedEvil> timeless: you can't get data any cheaper.
Oct 13 23:43:44 <timeless_mbp> they tried to help things
Oct 13 23:43:51 <crashanddie> RichiH, I remember now, the whole mibbit discussions
Oct 13 23:43:52 <SpeedEvil> timeless: no, they diddn't.
Oct 13 23:43:57 <SpeedEvil> timeless: only for roaming.
Oct 13 23:43:57 <RichiH> ah
Oct 13 23:44:10 <RichiH> a fun and loving occasion, that :p
Oct 13 23:44:12 <SpeedEvil> timeless: not internal countries charges to their own perpetrators.
Oct 13 23:44:13 <bfrog> Shapeshifter: fair enough, doesn't mean they need to nickle and dime me to make up for it
Oct 13 23:44:18 <Shapeshifter> bfrog: then they might offer other services like fixed line internet which they actually buy from fixnet operators, just to have some service more, and yet again earning nought.
Oct 13 23:44:19 <GeneralAntilles> wazd, get a life? :P
Oct 13 23:44:47 <crashanddie> RichiH, and me getting banned from the main freenode social channel
Oct 13 23:44:47 <kr1shnak> is anyone here using a mac as there development platform for maemo?
Oct 13 23:44:47 <kr1shnak> their not there
Oct 13 23:44:51 <RichiH> also, did nokia say anything about community pricing plans (or even a real release date), yet?
Oct 13 23:44:53 <timeless_mbp> kr1shnak: define using
Oct 13 23:44:55 <Xisdibik> mac?  whats that? :o
Oct 13 23:44:57 <timeless_mbp> this is a mac book pro
Oct 13 23:45:04 <timeless_mbp> i use VirtualBox + Mer on it
Oct 13 23:45:11 <timeless_mbp> and i do some of my work straight in OS X
Oct 13 23:45:14 <kr1shnak> right
Oct 13 23:45:28 <timeless_mbp> eventually sbox2 could grow to work on osx
Oct 13 23:45:32 <luke-jr> crashanddie: there's always the secondary social channel
Oct 13 23:45:33 <crashanddie> RichiH, not looking good from for a rebate, last I heard. There's a thread on tmo on the subject though
Oct 13 23:45:34 <timeless_mbp> but last i tried, it wasn't anywhere near there
Oct 13 23:45:38 <RichiH> crashanddie: quite a few people were, as things turned into several levels of nasty
Oct 13 23:45:40 <GeneralAntilles> http://www.legacyoflies.com/devuploads/general_antilles/maemo.org-startup.mov
Oct 13 23:45:42 <Shapeshifter> bfrog: I don't know maybe it's different in other countries but here there are 3 major mobile operators and the competition is really strong
Oct 13 23:46:02 <kr1shnak> so I guess the best thing to do is to run the dev kit in a VM
Oct 13 23:46:03 <crashanddie> luke-jr, meh, don't try to pick a fight with one of the "Freenode elders"
Oct 13 23:46:12 <RichiH> luke-jr: there is no seocndary channel. but that being said, people who want a different style of channel are free to choose from the alternatives
Oct 13 23:46:14 <bfrog> Shapeshifter: depends on where your at I suppose, I really feel like the providers in my area are in cahoots with eachother on pricing
Oct 13 23:46:17 <timeless_mbp> GeneralAntilles: all things considered, i'd rather a black background
Oct 13 23:46:20 <crashanddie> I guess I'm lucky to still be on this network
Oct 13 23:46:23 <bfrog> and basically just compete based on phone selection
Oct 13 23:46:25 <luke-jr> RichiH: sure there is, however unofficial we may be!
Oct 13 23:46:34 <GeneralAntilles> timeless_mbp, easy enough, though it doesn't look as good.
Oct 13 23:46:36 <timeless_mbp> that nokia uses a white background is incredibly annoying
Oct 13 23:46:43 <RichiH> luke-jr: that's why you not a secondary, but an alternative
Oct 13 23:46:44 <crashanddie> there's one thing I want: be able to have the phone icon on all desktops
Oct 13 23:46:48 <RichiH> difference :)
Oct 13 23:46:50 <ShadowJK> I don't think operators here compete on phone selection at all
Oct 13 23:46:51 <crashanddie> is there a bug report for that?
Oct 13 23:47:00 <timeless_mbp> crashanddie: you can cheat :)
Oct 13 23:47:14 * ShadowJK suspects most phones are bought from non-operators
Oct 13 23:47:15 <crashanddie> shussh, my gf's next to me
Oct 13 23:47:18 <timeless_mbp> all it takes is 3 extra .desktop files :)
Oct 13 23:47:33 <crashanddie> no, I want it automagic
Oct 13 23:47:36 <timeless_mbp> ShadowJK: that definitely varies by country
Oct 13 23:47:36 <RichiH> crashanddie: we don't just kick people off the network cause they disagree. it takes quite a lot to get klined, on freenode
Oct 13 23:47:39 <timeless_mbp> crashanddie: i know
Oct 13 23:47:43 <luke-jr> ShadowJK: I think in the USA, over 90% of phones are from network providers
Oct 13 23:47:47 <ShadowJK> timeless: yes
Oct 13 23:47:58 <crashanddie> RichiH, I was an idiot
Oct 13 23:48:08 <RichiH> crashanddie: we all are, sometimes
Oct 13 23:48:15 <luke-jr> RichiH: if the ToS were enforced strictly, we could get Klined for disagreeing easily
Oct 13 23:48:17 <timeless_mbp> GeneralAntilles: if i gave you a frame timestamp, could you do something about it?
Oct 13 23:48:39 <GeneralAntilles> timeless_mbp, the animation is still way jerky.
Oct 13 23:48:43 <RichiH> luke-jr: that sounds really well on paper; problem is, it's not true and you know that :)
Oct 13 23:48:48 <GeneralAntilles> timeless_mbp, need to work on my path splines. ;)
Oct 13 23:48:48 <ShadowJK> 2 of 3 have said they don't mind being datapipes, and the former monopoly was terrifiees at the thought. they have crappiest and most expensive data coverage :)
Oct 13 23:48:50 <timeless_mbp> the text jumps up/down as it grows
Oct 13 23:48:55 <luke-jr> RichiH: ok, not ToS, but "policy"
Oct 13 23:49:08 <timeless_mbp> it's kind of wavy
Oct 13 23:49:25 <RichiH> still
Oct 13 23:49:27 <GeneralAntilles> timeless_mbp, yeah, it was going to be due to a depth of field thing, but that didn't work out.
Oct 13 23:49:42 <timeless_mbp> you could try a spinning thing
Oct 13 23:49:47 <GeneralAntilles> timeless_mbp, basic concept for now, tweaking is coming.
Oct 13 23:50:00 <crashanddie> timeless_mbp, is there a bug about the aforementioned?
Oct 13 23:50:00 <timeless_mbp> where the .org thing pops out at the end
Oct 13 23:50:08 <timeless_mbp> crashanddie: i don't know of one, i haven't looked
Oct 13 23:50:17 <timeless_mbp> search, there's only one component to search
Oct 13 23:50:22 <timeless_mbp> if you can't find a bug, file it
Oct 13 23:50:39 <lcuk> when the .org pops out at the end, use the audio noise and click feel of opening the keyboard in the advert
Oct 13 23:51:04 <timeless_mbp> that'd be cool to try :)
Oct 13 23:51:19 <crashanddie> by the way
Oct 13 23:51:44 <crashanddie> since when did "marketing" start to be a synonym of "TV Commercial", or as someone put it "crappy youtube video"?
Oct 13 23:51:54 <crashanddie> did I miss a meeting?
Oct 13 23:52:12 <lcuk> you mustv :D
Oct 13 23:52:28 <luke-jr> crashanddie: when wasn't it?
Oct 13 23:53:01 <RichiH> crashanddie: btw, do you have the link for the thread handy?
Oct 13 23:53:03 <luke-jr> hum, we have a bot in #anime that appears to pass the turing test
Oct 13 23:53:10 <crashanddie> RichiH, sure
Oct 13 23:53:13 <luke-jr> or at least he's managed to convince a number of us that he's human
Oct 13 23:53:54 <zerojay> RichiH: I think the wiki is back up now.
Oct 13 23:54:31 <luke-jr> (until he trolls himself and demands to be banned for being an annoying bot)
Oct 13 23:54:52 <crashanddie> RichiH, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=31539
Oct 13 23:55:01 <RichiH> zerojay: arrr
Oct 13 23:55:03 <RichiH> crashanddie: ta
Oct 13 23:55:13 <GeneralAntilles> http://www.legacyoflies.com/devuploads/general_antilles/maemo.org-startup2.mov
Oct 13 23:56:55 <qwerty12_N810> Who was complaining on here a few days ago about not being able to add the same widget to multiple desktops?
Oct 13 23:57:02 <texrat> hey gang
Oct 13 23:57:13 <qwerty12_N810> Hullo, texrat
Oct 13 23:57:21 <texrat> qwerty dude
Oct 13 23:57:23 <GeneralAntilles>  /nick Texrat
Oct 13 23:57:27 <texrat> missed ya at the summit
Oct 13 23:57:32 <texrat> :p Ryan
Oct 13 23:57:38 <zerojay> texrat: Hey man.
Oct 13 23:57:45 <texrat> missed you too!  :/
Oct 13 23:57:54 <GeneralAntilles> texrat, think up a good sound for this: http://www.legacyoflies.com/devuploads/general_antilles/maemo.org-startup2.mov
Oct 13 23:57:58 <GeneralAntilles> Hooray, State Department!
Oct 13 23:58:09 <zerojay> qwerty12_N810: What's ye ole magic incantation for updating a .deb package?
Oct 13 23:58:24 <texrat> I hear a 'vrooom' sound
Oct 13 23:58:47 <texrat> maybe i can synth something
Oct 13 23:58:56 <qwerty12_N810> zerojay: For updating the version number? Use "dch -i"
Oct 13 23:59:09 <qwerty12_N810> And edit as needed
Oct 13 23:59:09 * crashanddie can't help but lol at the "Bible App" thread on tmo
Oct 13 23:59:12 <GeneralAntilles> We should just play the Intel sound backwards.
Oct 13 23:59:13 <texrat> or wait: escalating crowd noise?  lol
Oct 13 23:59:21 <crashanddie> and I thought IRC was the best source of entertainment in Maemo
Oct 13 23:59:23 <zerojay> qwerty12_N810: And for building the updated package? Same as original?
Oct 13 23:59:24 <texrat> ha!  Intel backwards, yeah
Oct 13 23:59:30 <GeneralAntilles> crashanddie, people really want their Bibles on their mobile devices.
Oct 13 23:59:34 <texrat> hey Sebastien
Oct 13 23:59:39 <qwerty12_N810> zerojay: Yeah
Oct 13 23:59:44 <crashanddie> sebastian
Oct 13 23:59:45 <zerojay> qwerty12_N810: Thanks.
Oct 13 23:59:48 <texrat> :p
Oct 13 23:59:52 <crashanddie> hey texrat
Oct 14 00:00:01 <crashanddie> texrat, don't make me sound more french than I really am
Oct 14 00:00:12 <texrat> heh
Oct 14 00:00:12 <crashanddie> which is, I hope, very little
Oct 14 00:00:15 <GeneralAntilles> texrat, only if we can get someone shouting "You're all trying to steal my pocket lint!" in the background.
Oct 14 00:00:29 <qwerty12_N810> crashanddie: That's a sudden 360
Oct 14 00:00:35 <crashanddie> GeneralAntilles, yada yada yada
Oct 14 00:00:49 <texrat> yadda*
Oct 14 00:00:51 <GeneralAntilles> crashanddie, blah blah blah jealous.
Oct 14 00:00:54 <GeneralAntilles> Hahaha
Oct 14 00:00:57 <b-man17> lol
Oct 14 00:01:01 <texrat> hey b-man
Oct 14 00:01:02 <GeneralAntilles> Yoda Yoda Yoda
Oct 14 00:01:05 <b-man17> hello :)
Oct 14 00:01:18 <crashanddie> GeneralAntilles, if you're going to bother with religion, at least be courteous enough to include other beliefs as well
Oct 14 00:01:28 <texrat> shit I am gonna hate going to work tomorrow... still on AMS time
Oct 14 00:02:10 <texrat> applied for another Nokia job today though... 4 apps outstanding now
Oct 14 00:02:18 <luke-jr> crashanddie: if you're going to put false religions on par with the true religion, at least don't pretend to follow any.
Oct 14 00:02:29 <GeneralAntilles> texrat, if you get in, be sure to go beat up some Ovi managers for me.
Oct 14 00:02:36 <texrat> all religions are true and false :p
Oct 14 00:02:36 <crashanddie> luke-jr, I beg your pardon?
Oct 14 00:02:43 <qwerty12_N810> texrat: How's the boss? :p
Oct 14 00:02:53 <texrat> qwerty no comment
Oct 14 00:03:00 <qwerty12_N810> Hehe
Oct 14 00:03:05 <texrat> may be Ryder spies here...
Oct 14 00:03:10 <qwerty12_N810> No, I mean: hee hee hee
Oct 14 00:03:17 <texrat> there ya go
Oct 14 00:03:27 <texrat> although I am trainign Jayonthabeat to be the new me
Oct 14 00:03:53 <texrat> qwerty you are too pure of heart... other than that goat porn thing
Oct 14 00:03:55 <crashanddie> luke-jr, if you're going to troll, at least do it properly: spell out your thoughts
Oct 14 00:04:14 <luke-jr> crashanddie: to consider two contradicting religions as valid, you inherently deny all of them.
Oct 14 00:04:21 <texrat> oh bull
Oct 14 00:04:23 <qwerty12_N810> texrat: Hey, I didn't know anyone was filming!
Oct 14 00:04:32 <texrat> lol q
Oct 14 00:04:39 <b-man17> luke-jr: take a chill pill ;)
Oct 14 00:05:02 <texrat> all religions contradict on some points and agree on others
Oct 14 00:05:14 <texrat> God prefers linux
Oct 14 00:05:15 <luke-jr> b-man17: wtf are you doing here?
Oct 14 00:05:31 <luke-jr> texrat: exactly why endorsing two is denying both.
Oct 14 00:05:33 <b-man17> just hanging out, you? :)
Oct 14 00:05:41 <texrat> oh bull again luke
Oct 14 00:05:47 <texrat> black and white view
Oct 14 00:05:59 <luke-jr> b-man17: deciding whether I'm ranting about closed Nxx0 or trying to convince Nokian employees to give me one
Oct 14 00:05:59 <texrat> I see colors
Oct 14 00:05:59 <crashanddie> luke-jr, I'm an agnostic, and not practising nor endorsing any kind of religion, therefore, do not need to deny any nor consider any of them valid
Oct 14 00:06:11 <lcuk> texrat, do you fart rainbows too?
Oct 14 00:06:17 <lcuk> :D
Oct 14 00:06:20 <texrat> just did lcuk
Oct 14 00:06:26 <lcuk> heh
Oct 14 00:06:28 <texrat> you should have seen it
Oct 14 00:06:28 * Proteous hums "I didn't start the flame war"
Oct 14 00:06:30 <b-man17> haha
Oct 14 00:06:32 <lcuk> pleasant trip back?
Oct 14 00:06:34 <luke-jr> b-man17: oh wait, you're *b*-man
Oct 14 00:06:39 <luke-jr> b-man17: misread your name as z-man
Oct 14 00:06:41 <luke-jr> :)
Oct 14 00:06:41 <texrat> as they go, yeah
Oct 14 00:06:48 <b-man17> xD
Oct 14 00:06:57 <luke-jr> b-man17: yandere
Oct 14 00:07:01 <b-man17> ḱ
Oct 14 00:07:05 <texrat> b-man would need a promotion to be z-man
Oct 14 00:07:09 <texrat> he has a way to go
Oct 14 00:07:22 <crashanddie> texrat, stop talking about promotions
Oct 14 00:07:24 * texrat farts another rainbow
Oct 14 00:07:40 <crashanddie> texrat, you're making me itch :P
Oct 14 00:07:46 <texrat> wow, gold!
Oct 14 00:07:48 <qwerty12_N810> Is there gold at the end of it?
Oct 14 00:07:53 <texrat> see above
Oct 14 00:07:57 <crashanddie> pre-emptive reply
Oct 14 00:07:59 <crashanddie> nice
Oct 14 00:08:01 <texrat> win
Oct 14 00:08:15 <crashanddie> anyway
Oct 14 00:08:23 <texrat> feels good... yesterday I only got lead
Oct 14 00:08:23 <crashanddie> work work work tomorrow
Oct 14 00:08:31 <crashanddie> texrat, that must be painful to fart
Oct 14 00:08:35 <texrat> nah
Oct 14 00:08:43 <texrat> at 48 it all-- never mind
Oct 14 00:08:45 <crashanddie> roommate well provided?
Oct 14 00:09:03 <qwerty12_N810> crashanddie: Oh, did you get in shit for being 2h late? :p
Oct 14 00:09:10 <crashanddie> qwerty12_N810, nope
Oct 14 00:09:15 <qwerty12_N810> lol
Oct 14 00:09:20 <texrat> late to what
Oct 14 00:09:24 <crashanddie> texrat, work
Oct 14 00:09:27 <texrat> ah
Oct 14 00:09:31 <texrat> I took the day off
Oct 14 00:09:58 <crashanddie> qwerty12_N810, good thing about not having your direct boss in the office, and the only guy in my department is a proby I'm training
Oct 14 00:10:06 <texrat> hey, am I retarded or does N900 not have a Missed call feature?
Oct 14 00:10:10 <crashanddie> and currently, his agenda is filled with "read this, read that, read those"
Oct 14 00:10:14 <crashanddie> texrat, you are retarded
Oct 14 00:10:18 <texrat> explain
Oct 14 00:10:24 <texrat> cannot find
Oct 14 00:10:26 <crashanddie> N900 does have a Missed Call feature
Oct 14 00:10:32 <qwerty12_N810> It shows 'em in the Phone app
Oct 14 00:10:33 <texrat> they hid it well then
Oct 14 00:10:34 <timeless_mbp> texrat: it has two features
Oct 14 00:10:38 <qwerty12_N810> crashanddie: Nice
Oct 14 00:10:39 <crashanddie> on and off
Oct 14 00:10:39 <texrat> does not show in mine
Oct 14 00:10:45 <timeless_mbp> 1. when you get a missed call, there's a flying window that appears
Oct 14 00:10:48 <texrat> lol timeless
Oct 14 00:10:52 <texrat> never got
Oct 14 00:10:58 <texrat> arg
Oct 14 00:10:59 <timeless_mbp> 2. if you tap that, you get sent to the thing
Oct 14 00:11:06 <timeless_mbp> 3. if you miss it, the top left corner glows
Oct 14 00:11:09 <qwerty12_N810> texrat: Your network sucks
Oct 14 00:11:12 <texrat> I had 3 missed calls with no indications at all
Oct 14 00:11:13 <crashanddie> hang on
Oct 14 00:11:17 <crashanddie> that's 3, you said 2
Oct 14 00:11:20 <timeless_mbp> 4. if you tap that, you get a box in the window switcher showing missed calls
Oct 14 00:11:20 <lcuk> if you bring up the phone app it shows in/out numbers doesnt it
Oct 14 00:11:27 <texrat> interface has so many fucking quirks
Oct 14 00:11:32 <texrat> nope
Oct 14 00:11:38 <texrat> lcuk no it doesn't
Oct 14 00:11:43 <timeless_mbp> 5. the phone call list shows missed calls w/ a red icon and theme color text instead of normal text
Oct 14 00:11:44 <lcuk> o_O on mine it does
Oct 14 00:11:44 <texrat> that I can see
Oct 14 00:11:47 <lcuk> it lists all calls
Oct 14 00:11:48 <timeless_mbp> there are really only 2 features
Oct 14 00:11:50 <crashanddie> texrat, good to see you on IRC sir, btw
Oct 14 00:11:52 <texrat> ahhhhh
Oct 14 00:11:55 <texrat> thanks
Oct 14 00:11:59 <timeless_mbp> one is the flying thing that becomes a glowing thing that becomes a box
Oct 14 00:12:05 <texrat> I want tabs, goddammit
Oct 14 00:12:12 <crashanddie> ctrl + t
Oct 14 00:12:14 <timeless_mbp> the other is the phone's red icon + themed colored name/number
Oct 14 00:12:15 <texrat> mixing all calls=idiocy
Oct 14 00:12:21 <timeless_mbp> texrat: oh
Oct 14 00:12:29 <texrat> mile long fuckiogn scroll
Oct 14 00:12:29 <timeless_mbp> you want separate inbound/outbound/missed views
Oct 14 00:12:30 <timeless_mbp> um
Oct 14 00:12:33 <texrat> YES
Oct 14 00:12:39 * crashanddie files a bug
Oct 14 00:12:41 <texrat> at least the option
Oct 14 00:12:44 <texrat> agreed
Oct 14 00:12:49 <timeless_mbp> nope, that isn't supported
Oct 14 00:12:52 * texrat votes on bug
Oct 14 00:13:02 <timeless_mbp> the ui designers went for "simplicity" (i'm sure they used that word)
Oct 14 00:13:02 <GeneralAntilles> http://www.legacyoflies.com/devuploads/general_antilles/maemo.org-startup2.mov
Oct 14 00:13:06 <GeneralAntilles> 3D, now.
Oct 14 00:13:08 <texrat> I have sooo many things to file... organizing first
Oct 14 00:13:15 <texrat> cool GA
Oct 14 00:13:16 <timeless_mbp> GeneralAntilles: i like
Oct 14 00:13:39 <timeless_mbp> GeneralAntilles: have you tested on a device?
Oct 14 00:13:49 <GeneralAntilles> timeless_mbp, not yet.
Oct 14 00:13:52 <qwerty12_N810> texrat: You're not gonna get tabs; the Hildon way is to shove everything onto a page with kinetic...
Oct 14 00:13:54 <texrat> GA you seriously looking for a sound?  I think I can find some copyright-free stuff
Oct 14 00:14:11 <GeneralAntilles> texrat, be fun to have a http://maemo.org sound.
Oct 14 00:14:25 <texrat> @qwerty12_N810 I disagree with that philosophy
Oct 14 00:14:26 <timeless_mbp> qwerty12_N810: so...
Oct 14 00:14:32 <timeless_mbp> we do have views as a menu thing
Oct 14 00:14:33 <texrat> makes listings a mess
Oct 14 00:14:33 <lcuk> texrat, timeless thinks the .org should pop out, i think it should use the nokia n900 keyboard slide out and mechanic ;)
Oct 14 00:14:37 <timeless_mbp> the media player uses them
Oct 14 00:14:42 <texrat> lol lcuk
Oct 14 00:14:49 <timeless_mbp> i like lcuk 's suggestion
Oct 14 00:15:04 <lcuk> extension to your idea
Oct 14 00:15:08 <GeneralAntilles> Somebody mix up a recording of that.
Oct 14 00:15:19 <texrat> errrrrrrrrrrrrr-CLICK
Oct 14 00:15:28 <timeless_mbp> iirc image viewer also has views
Oct 14 00:15:31 <timeless_mbp> a couple of others do too
Oct 14 00:15:42 <qwerty12_N810> timeless_mbp: Sure, but GtkNotebooks are discarded in favour (yes, spelt correctly) of the one page - look at the Porting Modest wiki page :)
Oct 14 00:15:43 <timeless_mbp> so, it's definitely not beyond what's used in our ui
Oct 14 00:15:58 <timeless_mbp> qwerty12_N810: we don't use notebooks
Oct 14 00:16:01 <timeless_mbp> we stick them into menus
Oct 14 00:16:06 <timeless_mbp> calendar uses this thing too
Oct 14 00:16:14 <timeless_mbp> actually, calendar is a good example
Oct 14 00:16:14 <qwerty12_N810> Filters
Oct 14 00:16:17 <lcuk> i just found out i can lock the phone in portrait mode
Oct 14 00:16:18 <timeless_mbp> it has month/week/day views
Oct 14 00:16:21 <timeless_mbp> those aren't filters
Oct 14 00:16:23 <lcuk> no longer is it a random thing
Oct 14 00:16:25 <qwerty12_N810> They are
Oct 14 00:16:27 <texrat> oh crap, my freeware audio source is down for maintenance
Oct 14 00:16:53 <texrat> I say we rip off the THX thing
Oct 14 00:16:58 <lcuk> texrat, get on gtalk with a guitar and make the jingle yourself! :D
Oct 14 00:17:03 <qwerty12_N810> timeless: I've also used them in code, believe me :)
Oct 14 00:17:10 <texrat> guitar=broke :(
Oct 14 00:17:13 <texrat> son dropped it
Oct 14 00:17:17 <timeless_mbp> :(
Oct 14 00:17:26 <crashanddie> texrat, too tired to file a bug
Oct 14 00:17:32 <texrat> I will file
Oct 14 00:17:40 <crashanddie> texrat, put me on CC
Oct 14 00:17:44 <texrat> how
Oct 14 00:17:50 <crashanddie> nevermind
Oct 14 00:17:51 <texrat> been too long since I used irc
Oct 14 00:17:57 <texrat> forgot the tricks
Oct 14 00:18:02 <crashanddie> eh?
Oct 14 00:18:10 <crashanddie> no, talking about CC on the bug report
Oct 14 00:18:14 <texrat> I have forgotten the codes for irc
Oct 14 00:18:17 <texrat> ah
Oct 14 00:18:22 * texrat slaps self
Oct 14 00:18:31 * crashanddie helps self
Oct 14 00:18:35 <crashanddie> good self
Oct 14 00:18:42 * qwerty12_N810 stabs self
Oct 14 00:18:43 <texrat> ^ win
Oct 14 00:18:54 <b-man17> hmm
Oct 14 00:19:00 <b-man17> ~slap himself
Oct 14 00:19:01 * infobot slaps himself, keep your grubby fingers to yourself!
Oct 14 00:19:06 <b-man17> lol
Oct 14 00:19:11 <texrat> god I leave AMS rainign and damned if it ain't doing the same at home
Oct 14 00:19:14 <crashanddie> and there you go, a slap, a helping hand, a praise, result: a dead qwerty
Oct 14 00:19:25 <texrat> ^ win
Oct 14 00:19:30 <crashanddie> texrat, hint, it's not the same cloud
Oct 14 00:19:42 <texrat> I refuse to believe that
Oct 14 00:19:47 <texrat> fucker followed me
Oct 14 00:19:57 <crashanddie> texrat, clouds don't live long at 600 mph
Oct 14 00:20:03 <texrat> 600 mph rainstorm
Oct 14 00:20:06 <texrat> lol
Oct 14 00:20:08 <qwerty12_N810> C'mon, why would it willingly go to Texas?
Oct 14 00:20:11 <texrat> simutype
Oct 14 00:20:15 <crashanddie> qwerty12_N810, good point
Oct 14 00:20:26 <texrat> because Texas always needs rain?
Oct 14 00:20:40 <texrat> we have a perpetual rain vacuum
Oct 14 00:20:43 <crashanddie> Texas needs a lot of things, not sure rain is a priority
Oct 14 00:20:54 <texrat> tell that to the plants
Oct 14 00:20:55 <lcuk> it tries to get there but is put off with all the rainbow farts
Oct 14 00:21:11 <texrat> shit, then, it's MY fault
Oct 14 00:21:18 <crashanddie> actually, rainbows require rain
Oct 14 00:21:24 <texrat> not mine
Oct 14 00:21:27 <lcuk> you and you only, we were hoping you would keep it dry in ams
Oct 14 00:21:44 <texrat> I did my job on Thursday
Oct 14 00:21:53 <crashanddie> and got fired on friday?
Oct 14 00:21:59 <texrat> not sure yet
Oct 14 00:22:14 <crashanddie> god I'd love to be fired
Oct 14 00:22:20 * crashanddie slaps self
Oct 14 00:22:21 <texrat> hey, who votes to add a 10 minute talk to next year's format?
Oct 14 00:22:26 <crashanddie> why the fuck would I say that on a logged channel?
Oct 14 00:22:32 <texrat> so I don't get so goddammed embarassed again
Oct 14 00:22:43 <crashanddie> texrat, you did good
Oct 14 00:22:50 <lcuk> better than i!
Oct 14 00:22:52 <texrat> "time's up, asshole, get off the bloody stage!"
Oct 14 00:23:12 <crashanddie> lcuk, yours was technifail
Oct 14 00:23:16 <qwerty12_N810> crashanddie: Don't worry, they don't know you're Sebastian Lauwers of London
Oct 14 00:23:17 <crashanddie> next year, go for technicolour
Oct 14 00:23:21 <texrat> it's his fault for spelling luck wrong
Oct 14 00:23:33 <texrat> lol qwerty
Oct 14 00:23:33 <lcuk> lol crashanddie - texrats presentation is in color
Oct 14 00:23:39 <lcuk> mine will be something completely different
Oct 14 00:23:43 <texrat> a rainbow even
Oct 14 00:23:55 <texrat> I farted it during lunch
Oct 14 00:24:05 <texrat> half the table cleared
Oct 14 00:24:12 <crashanddie> texrat, bonus points if you remember this rainbow farting thing next year and put a rainbow at a random point in your talk
Oct 14 00:24:18 <texrat> hee
Oct 14 00:24:18 <lcuk> :D
Oct 14 00:24:27 * texrat saves advance presentation file
Oct 14 00:24:48 <crashanddie> anyway
Oct 14 00:24:49 <crashanddie> time for bed
Oct 14 00:24:52 <crashanddie> take care people
Oct 14 00:24:56 <lcuk> gnite seb
Oct 14 00:24:57 <texrat> I'll do it if lcuk includes a unicorn in his
Oct 14 00:25:02 <qwerty12_N810> Night, crashanddie
Oct 14 00:25:05 <texrat> later bastiEn
Oct 14 00:25:21 <crashanddie> texrat, I'll put a badger in my talk next year
Oct 14 00:25:23 <b-man17> see ya crashhanddie
Oct 14 00:25:27 <texrat> awesome
Oct 14 00:25:33 <texrat> and a banana phone
Oct 14 00:25:43 <texrat> ooo
Oct 14 00:25:50 <crashanddie> (the only reason for that, is that I encountered a big badger in my ride tonight)
Oct 14 00:26:09 <crashanddie> they're very cute, up to the point where they charge and growl
Oct 14 00:26:32 <texrat> a baby badger could kick your ass
Oct 14 00:27:08 <qwerty12_N810> A mouse trap will kill your ass
Oct 14 00:27:36 <texrat> I don't wanna see that mouse
Oct 14 00:28:02 * SpeedEvil has mice in the walls.
Oct 14 00:28:06 * SpeedEvil sighs.
Oct 14 00:28:15 <SpeedEvil> ~12 traps around, but the damn things are chewing stuff in there.
Oct 14 00:28:16 <infobot> I think you lost me on that one, SpeedEvil
Oct 14 00:28:28 <SpeedEvil> And making lots of noise
Oct 14 00:28:46 <qwerty12_N810> Put C4 in the walls
Oct 14 00:29:50 <SpeedEvil> I think I'm going for the slightly less radical step of demolishing them with a hammer
Oct 14 00:29:52 <texrat> Hey GeneralAntilles: http://www.freesound.org/
Oct 14 00:30:05 <SpeedEvil> (and then reinstalling with insulation) (and mouseproofing)
Oct 14 00:30:42 <texrat> I see we have destroyed the maemo wiki
Oct 14 00:30:58 <texrat> yay Nokia for server speed and resilience!
Oct 14 00:31:07 <lcuk> texrat, as a member of the council, put a request in and see whether the licensed sound can be used in a maemo.org context
Oct 14 00:31:17 <lcuk> if it is indeed licensed
Oct 14 00:31:23 <texrat> nobody listens to me lcuk
Oct 14 00:31:29 <lcuk> could the sound just be rerecorded
Oct 14 00:31:34 <lcuk> mmm
Oct 14 00:31:38 <qwerty12_N810> GeneralAntilles: Actually, you could have lcuk saying "maemo.org" in his accent. Then again, that may cause a rush of people wanting to remove it...
Oct 14 00:31:42 <texrat> I got voted in by people hoping to see me do soemthign stupid :D
Oct 14 00:31:58 <texrat> see, I can't even spell "something"
Oct 14 00:32:10 <lcuk> well now we know thats not gonna happen, how about doin something practical :P
Oct 14 00:32:21 <texrat> wow... never thought of that...
Oct 14 00:32:35 <texrat> geez, do you think I could?
Oct 14 00:32:40 <lcuk> nopers
Oct 14 00:32:41 <lcuk> this is you
Oct 14 00:32:44 <lcuk> :D
Oct 14 00:32:53 <texrat> thanks for getting my hope up, damn you
Oct 14 00:32:58 <texrat> sodd off :p
Oct 14 00:33:04 <texrat> or sod
Oct 14 00:33:04 * lcuk raises a glass
Oct 14 00:33:11 * texrat drinks
Oct 14 00:33:13 <texrat> kippis
Oct 14 00:33:17 <lcuk> oi! that was mine
Oct 14 00:33:20 <texrat> lol
Oct 14 00:33:52 <texrat> I did by the obligatory Amsterdam shot glass
Oct 14 00:33:58 <texrat> my collection grows
Oct 14 00:34:10 <lcuk> heh cool, how many now
Oct 14 00:34:16 <texrat> 6
Oct 14 00:34:31 <texrat> buy*
Oct 14 00:34:32 <lcuk> more than most, but not yet epic then :P
Oct 14 00:34:43 <texrat> I'll hit epic by 80 or so
Oct 14 00:35:53 <lcuk> has anyone ever been to a barcamp
Oct 14 00:36:22 <qwerty12_N810> Camp? :\
Oct 14 00:36:27 <lcuk> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BarCamp
Oct 14 00:38:40 <texrat> wow, wonder if BarCamp could work for Maemo 2010 summit...
Oct 14 00:40:32 <lcuk> well i might have the opportunity to get down to london for one at the end of the month
Oct 14 00:40:37 <texrat> GeneralAntilles you still here?
Oct 14 00:40:56 <qwerty12_N810> He's on the beach
Oct 14 00:41:25 <qwerty12_N810> lcuk: I'd make sure that it is a sure thing. Manchester... Bleh
Oct 14 00:41:57 <lcuk> hah
Oct 14 00:42:00 <texrat> maemo sound effect nominee: http://www.freesound.org/samplesViewSingle.php?id=30938
Oct 14 00:42:26 <texrat> or: http://www.freesound.org/samplesViewSingle.php?id=27281
Oct 14 00:43:07 <texrat> or:http://www.freesound.org/samplesViewSingle.php?id=25076
Oct 14 00:43:20 <qwerty12_N810> How about a Garage version of the Nokia Tune
Oct 14 00:43:35 <texrat> or: http://www.freesound.org/samplesViewSingle.php?id=62260
Oct 14 00:44:04 <texrat> I like this one: http://www.freesound.org/samplesViewSingle.php?id=25070
Oct 14 00:44:38 <texrat> ooo, this one pans! http://www.freesound.org/samplesViewSingle.php?id=25075
Oct 14 00:45:21 <texrat> cool one: http://www.freesound.org/samplesViewSingle.php?id=2248
Oct 14 00:45:56 <lcuk> texrat, the middle one sounds like what i want when scrolling
Oct 14 00:46:02 <texrat> more audio spam: http://www.freesound.org/searchText.php?search=whoosh&start=30&searchDescriptions=1&searchTags=1&searchFilenames=0&searchUsernames=0&order=1
Oct 14 00:46:08 * lcuk wants wind noise, or book pages flapping ideally
Oct 14 00:46:11 <texrat> lcuk, take 'em-- these are all freeware
Oct 14 00:46:56 <lcuk> similar, wouldnt work right - it just remined me of it
Oct 14 00:47:08 <texrat> interesting one: http://www.freesound.org/samplesViewSingle.php?id=19309
Oct 14 00:47:18 <qwerty12_N810> texrat: Next time you produce a rainbow, use the sound recorder on the tablet
Oct 14 00:47:22 <texrat> lcuk you can find ANY sound at this site
Oct 14 00:47:35 <lcuk> hahahaha
Oct 14 00:47:49 <texrat> qwerty12_N810 I would break it
Oct 14 00:48:00 <lcuk> qwerty12_N810, its mono too
Oct 14 00:48:18 <lcuk> texrats' eruptions are more ummm vibrant
Oct 14 00:48:28 <qwerty12_N810> texrat: nonsense, my N800 still works and it's been in my hands for years...
Oct 14 00:48:31 <qwerty12_N810> heh
Oct 14 00:49:01 <SpeedEvil> qwerty12_N810: you should probably put it down occasionally.
Oct 14 00:49:30 <qwerty12_N810> But that'd be no fun :(
Oct 14 00:50:04 <texrat> I was fighting gas before my aborted speech-- was so afraid I'd let 'er rip on stage
Oct 14 00:50:23 <texrat> I think my pants were swelling
Oct 14 00:51:20 <texrat> oo this one's nice: http://www.freesound.org/samplesViewSingle.php?id=63373
Oct 14 00:51:45 * lcuk laughs heartily
Oct 14 00:51:51 <lcuk> you just recorded that texrat ?
Oct 14 00:51:59 <texrat> no
Oct 14 00:52:04 <texrat> pulling them off site
Oct 14 00:52:11 <zerojay> Heh.. I just got a PM from that moron that was posting links to some movie site directly on TMO.
Oct 14 00:52:18 * qwerty12_N810 siphons texrat's fart into lcuk's open mouth
Oct 14 00:52:24 <texrat> ack
Oct 14 00:52:30 <zerojay> "yeah you must be a real,hoot at a party.. "
Oct 14 00:52:42 * lcuk promptly dies
Oct 14 00:53:03 <qwerty12_N810> zerojay: That one who was making up that shit about getting it tested on the N900?
Oct 14 00:53:16 <zerojay> Probably.
Oct 14 00:53:25 <zerojay> My response: "And I'm sure you're the one that likes doing incredibly stupid shit at parties that gets them shut down and ruins the night for everyone."
Oct 14 00:53:30 <texrat> this is for lcuk: http://www.freesound.org/samplesViewSingle.php?id=37733
Oct 14 00:53:39 <zerojay> qwerty12_N810: Name is slartibart
Oct 14 00:54:35 <qwerty12_N810> zerojay: Ah, different guy
Oct 14 00:54:58 <texrat> this is for zerojay: http://www.freesound.org/samplesViewSingle.php?id=38594
Oct 14 00:55:32 * lcuk has started to get many "servicing request from [ip]" recently
Oct 14 00:55:35 <lcuk> wtf is that all about
Oct 14 00:55:42 <lcuk> texrat, eww
Oct 14 00:56:08 <texrat> my oldest son likes this one: http://www.freesound.org/samplesViewSingle.php?id=546
Oct 14 00:56:31 <qwerty12_N810> lcuk: "servicing request" says it all
Oct 14 00:56:51 <texrat> classic: http://www.freesound.org/samplesViewSingle.php?id=53922
Oct 14 00:56:58 <lcuk> which means what
Oct 14 00:57:17 <qwerty12_N810> ~$100
Oct 14 00:57:18 <zerojay> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=345876#post345876 - :)
Oct 14 00:57:18 * infobot gives qwerty12_n810 full service!
Oct 14 00:57:34 <qwerty12_N810> lcuk: You may be able to figure it out from the above
Oct 14 00:57:36 <zerojay> TMO mods awake?
Oct 14 00:58:14 <lcuk> zerojay, reggie has already looked over the thread i believe
Oct 14 00:58:29 <zerojay> k
Oct 14 00:59:51 <texrat> sheer poetry: http://www.freesound.org/samplesViewSingle.php?id=47247
Oct 14 01:00:08 * lcuk is listenin to coldplay now
Oct 14 01:00:20 <qwerty12_N810> lcuk: Tired?
Oct 14 01:00:39 <lcuk> yeah, managed to do something cool tonight i think
Oct 14 01:01:16 <qwerty12_N810> Ah, good: Coldplay is a nice way to make you go to sleep quickly
Oct 14 01:01:25 <texrat> zerojay yay drama!
Oct 14 01:01:32 <zerojay> texrat: Gotta love it. ;)
Oct 14 01:03:30 <texrat> zerojay: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=345881&posted=1#post345881
Oct 14 01:04:25 <zerojay> texrat: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=345882&postcount=7
Oct 14 01:04:42 <texrat> http://www.freesound.org/samplesViewSingle.php?id=79667
Oct 14 01:04:44 <zerojay> Dunno if Jay's joking or not, but whatever. ;P
Oct 14 01:05:03 <texrat> he is
Oct 14 01:05:12 <qwerty12_N810> Texrat will sort him out
Oct 14 01:05:21 <texrat> from what?
Oct 14 01:05:28 <zerojay> I'm not worried about it. He seems to be alright anyways.
Oct 14 01:05:32 <texrat> he looks like everyone else :p
Oct 14 01:05:41 <GeneralAntilles> texrat, just got back from the grocery store.
Oct 14 01:05:45 <texrat> jayonthebeat is my protege
Oct 14 01:06:08 <zerojay> Yeah, I noticed. :)
Oct 14 01:06:13 <texrat> GeneralAntilles: I linked you several whoosh sounds above.  Ignore the farts (or use as you wish)
Oct 14 01:06:33 <qwerty12_N810> Poor guy
Oct 14 01:06:36 <zerojay> Anyone else having trouble logging in to MSN with the telepathy plugins suddenly?
Oct 14 01:06:39 <texrat> shaddap
Oct 14 01:07:01 <texrat> this is for qwerty: http://www.freesound.org/samplesViewSingle.php?id=79664
Oct 14 01:07:20 <texrat> even better: http://www.freesound.org/samplesViewSingle.php?id=79660
Oct 14 01:07:41 <qwerty12_N810> /nick freesoundwhore
Oct 14 01:07:42 <qwerty12_N810> :)
Oct 14 01:07:46 <texrat> GeneralAntilles: start with a whoosh and end with a grenade ftw.
Oct 14 01:07:51 <texrat> lol
Oct 14 01:07:54 <GeneralAntilles> lol
Oct 14 01:08:10 <GeneralAntilles> I'm just going to use the UT2004 intro clip. :P
Oct 14 01:08:39 <texDrat> RRRRRRRRRRRRampage!!!
Oct 14 01:08:53 <qwerty12_N810> The music in the Trophy Room of UT99 was the best
Oct 14 01:08:57 <lcuk> MMMMMMMonsterkill
Oct 14 01:09:00 <GeneralAntilles> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpzIC0ob8Ec
Oct 14 01:09:12 <TexStraat> that was the name of an Amsterdam street
Oct 14 01:09:36 <TexStraat> Blue team SCOOORES!!!!
Oct 14 01:09:40 <TexAss> Hint, hint
Oct 14 01:09:44 <TexStraat> ...
Oct 14 01:10:06 <TexStraat> crap now I wanna play an FPS
Oct 14 01:10:22 * lcuk is puttin ut99 on as we speak
Oct 14 01:10:40 <GeneralAntilles> Tremulous
Oct 14 01:10:47 * qwerty12_N810 misses UT99
Oct 14 01:10:51 <GeneralAntilles> Free and open source.
Oct 14 01:10:57 <TexStraat> http://www.freesound.org/samplesViewSingle.php?id=78825
Oct 14 01:11:21 <GeneralAntilles> Yeah, there's something about those dual Enforcers.
Oct 14 01:11:21 <GeneralAntilles> No UT since has been quite the same.
Oct 14 01:11:29 <TexStraat> I am just here for the deejay work
Oct 14 01:11:38 <sin18> has google changed its url for google maps again; maemo mapper - n800/diablo - cannot download maps (http://mt0.google.com/mt/v=w2.95&hl=en&x=%d&y=%d&zoom=%d)
Oct 14 01:11:52 <TexStraat> http://www.freesound.org/samplesViewSingle.php?id=78824
Oct 14 01:13:05 * qwerty12_N810 fires up Q3 with its auto-aim...
Oct 14 01:13:06 <GeneralAntilles> TexStraat, after Quim's LinuxTag talk I tried to cut it up to get him saying "Maemo" as a pronunciation example.
Oct 14 01:13:18 <TexStraat> http://www.freesound.org/samplesViewSingle.php?id=62050
Oct 14 01:13:20 <GeneralAntilles> Wish I still had those clips, they all turned into incomprehensible gibberish.
Oct 14 01:13:27 <GeneralAntilles> Be great to mix them together. :D
Oct 14 01:13:27 <TexStraat> lol
Oct 14 01:14:31 * lcuk vanishes, cyas later
Oct 14 01:14:44 * lcuk is doin the skyscraper level
Oct 14 01:14:49 <TexStraat> http://www.freesound.org/samplesViewSingle.php?id=78484
Oct 14 01:15:30 <TexStraat> LMAO... GeneralAntilles, THIS is your intro sound: http://www.freesound.org/samplesViewSingle.php?id=77405
Oct 14 01:15:40 <TexStraat> perfect!
Oct 14 01:16:21 <GeneralAntilles> AndrewFBlack wants to get me murdered FLS.
Oct 14 01:16:28 <TexStraat> ?
Oct 14 01:16:45 <GeneralAntilles> He was asking if I had an N900 for the Mer booth. :D
Oct 14 01:16:50 <GeneralAntilles> TexStraat, lol.
Oct 14 01:16:54 <GeneralAntilles> I might just have to do that one.
Oct 14 01:17:00 <GeneralAntilles> 10 seconds is took long, though.
Oct 14 01:17:09 <TexStraat> compress or edit
Oct 14 01:17:28 <TexStraat> have the maemo logo shake at the end
Oct 14 01:17:45 <TexStraat> accelerometer effect...lol
Oct 14 01:18:15 <qwerty12_N810> GeneralAntilles: Do it anyway. We've already made the best of you into a bot
Oct 14 01:23:10 <TexStraat> here ya go GA: http://www.freesound.org/samplesViewSingle.php?id=73593
Oct 14 01:24:23 <zerojay> I must have fucked something up with sending my public key to garage or something... anyone help me out maybe?
Oct 14 01:24:36 <GeneralAntilles> Use the Extras assistant?
Oct 14 01:24:41 <Texrat> Jay, did YOU bring down the wiki???
Oct 14 01:25:13 <zerojay> Texrat: I could bring down just about anything. lol
Oct 14 01:25:21 <zerojay> GeneralAntilles: Guess I could.
Oct 14 01:25:50 <GeneralAntilles> http://www.legocyoflies.com/devuploads/general_antilles/letni_dnuos.mp3
Oct 14 01:26:10 <zerojay> Texrat: Oh shit... it's down again?
Oct 14 01:26:22 <GeneralAntilles> http://www.leghttp://www.legocyoflies.com/devuploads/general_antilles/letni_dnuoscyoflies.com/devuploads/general_antilles/letni_dnuos.mp3
Oct 14 01:26:23 <GeneralAntilles> Oops
Oct 14 01:26:54 <GeneralAntilles> Texrat, I wish you luck in cleaning up that wiki. ;)
Oct 14 01:27:09 <GeneralAntilles> All of my previous efforts have resulted in lots of talk and zero action.
Oct 14 01:29:15 <Texrat> GeneralAntilles: I will just do the best I can, no more
Oct 14 01:29:22 <Texrat> one item at a time ;)
Oct 14 01:29:56 <Texrat> <GeneralAntilles> http://www.legocyoflies.com/devuploads/general_antilles/letni_dnuos.mp3 = 404
Oct 14 01:30:21 <Texrat> same with 2nd link
Oct 14 01:30:28 <qwerty12_N810> legocy
Oct 14 01:30:29 <zerojay> Question... am I uploading *_source.changes or *.changes?
Oct 14 01:30:32 <GeneralAntilles> legacy
Oct 14 01:31:01 <qwerty12_N810> zerojay: source
Oct 14 01:32:05 <zerojay> qwerty12_N810: And the others are without _source as it says, correct?
Oct 14 01:32:33 <qwerty12_N810> Yeah, you should be asked to upload a tar.gz and a dsc after the changes
Oct 14 01:33:06 * zerojay clicks "move files to autobuilder" and dances.
Oct 14 01:34:34 * Texrat blinds self after imagining zerojay dancing
Oct 14 01:34:57 <qwerty12_N810> Texrat is dazzled easily
Oct 14 01:35:03 <zerojay> Last time I tried dancing, at a girl's request and lead, I almost went through her parents entertainment center.
Oct 14 01:35:44 <Texrat> hey it must be time for me to tell how EIPI got hit on by a couple of ladies in Amsterdam
Oct 14 01:36:01 <zerojay> Really? haha.
Oct 14 01:36:12 <zerojay> Real ladies?
Oct 14 01:36:18 <Texrat> he said he was canadian and one said, "good, I don't like Americans"
Oct 14 01:36:25 <zerojay> lol
Oct 14 01:36:37 <Texrat> whereupon I proceeded to let her dig herself in
Oct 14 01:36:59 <zerojay> Average app approval times:
Oct 14 01:37:00 <Texrat> his brownness was a clever discuss
Oct 14 01:37:05 <Texrat> disguise
Oct 14 01:37:06 <zerojay> Apple iPhone - 38 days
Oct 14 01:37:13 <zerojay> WinMo - 4 days
Oct 14 01:37:17 <Texrat> lol
Oct 14 01:37:22 <zerojay> Android - 7 seconds
Oct 14 01:37:26 <Texrat> Microosft will allow anything
Oct 14 01:37:29 <Texrat> ...
Oct 14 01:37:32 <Texrat> Microsoft
Oct 14 01:37:33 <clmntch> when you make a multi-column HildonTouchSelector are the rows in each column independant of each other?
Oct 14 01:37:49 <Hydroxide> heh, woo nokia for giving a really confusingly blank green bar for the N900 at http://www.nokiausa.com/find-products/phones?intc=prdcts-fw-ilc-fp_prd01-con-na-nokiacom-us-na-ph_001
Oct 14 01:37:56 <clmntch> or when you select one, the other is selected? sort of like a table
Oct 14 01:38:06 <zerojay> That's according to Scoble... dunno how true all of that is except I do know iPhone sounds correct according to what I've personally seen.
Oct 14 01:38:36 <Texrat> lol Hydrozide
Oct 14 01:38:52 <Texrat> er, lol Hydroxide I mean
Oct 14 01:39:15 <Texrat> I am sooo steamed that Ovi won't sync with N900...grrrr
Oct 14 01:39:15 * qwerty12_N810 introduces Texrat to the Tab key
Oct 14 01:39:22 <Hydroxide> Texrat: I pre-ordered a month and a half ago ... hopefully they do it in chronological order and I get it well before the end of october. we'll see...
Oct 14 01:39:28 * Texrat slaps qwerty
Oct 14 01:39:45 <Hydroxide> Texrat: can't it sync with lots of more standard stuff? why do you need to sync with Ovi?
Oct 14 01:39:55 <qwerty12_N810> Still forgot to use Tab
Oct 14 01:39:57 <Texrat> because I have ALL my contacts on Ovi
Oct 14 01:40:02 <Hydroxide> ah, heh
Oct 14 01:40:02 <Texrat> wtf?  tab?
Oct 14 01:40:04 <zerojay> Texrat: Really?
Oct 14 01:40:06 <GeneralAntilles> He lurves Ovi.
Oct 14 01:40:13 <Texrat> I am TRYING to lurve Ovi
Oct 14 01:40:15 <zerojay> Texrat: I think you're the only one I know that even remotely uses Ovi then.
Oct 14 01:40:26 <qwerty12_N810> Texrat: You mean after all of the Ovi stuff on the N900, they've forgotten syncing?
Oct 14 01:40:27 <Texrat> it is my goal to make the damn thign work or die
Oct 14 01:40:37 <Texrat> there is no Ovi sync
Oct 14 01:40:42 <qwerty12_N810> zerojay: I hear lcuk and his finger love it too
Oct 14 01:40:46 <Texrat> in fact you can't get past a certain point in dialogs
Oct 14 01:41:13 <Hydroxide> Texrat: is there a reason you're set on ovi? again, if you can do syncml or opensync or something, it's a lot more standard and you can be compatible with lots of stuff
Oct 14 01:41:33 <Texrat> I am set on Ovi because I want to help Nokia get it working
Oct 14 01:41:36 <lcuk> qwerty12_N810, i dont know about love, but for a brief moment i was in sync with ovi
Oct 14 01:42:03 <lcuk> noble target Texrat :)
Oct 14 01:42:10 <Texrat> <--lazy bastard who likes the promise of Ovi
Oct 14 01:42:11 <Hydroxide> Texrat: so maybe write a ovi<->standardstuff connector?
Oct 14 01:42:12 <zerojay> qwerty12_N810: Heh... i386 build failed... didn't know I had to do anything for i386. Suggestions?
Oct 14 01:42:26 <Texrat> Hydroxide I am pushing Nokia
Oct 14 01:42:40 <qwerty12_N810> lcuk: Then it told you to GTFO and dumped your ass on the road
Oct 14 01:42:48 <Texrat> I feel another Ovi watch blog article coming on...
Oct 14 01:42:52 <qwerty12_N810> zerojay: Got a link to the log?
Oct 14 01:43:27 <Hydroxide> Texrat: if qgil's posts on the forum have any pattern to them, it's "nokia can't spend resources on X right now but we'd welcome it if the community felt like doing X"
Oct 14 01:43:42 <Texrat> Hydroxide, that has nothing to do with Ovi
Oct 14 01:43:50 <Hydroxide> Texrat: and really community participation is one of the biggest strengths of Maemo
Oct 14 01:43:50 <Texrat> separate teams
Oct 14 01:44:06 <Texrat> the syncing is broken on Ovi side
Oct 14 01:44:11 <Hydroxide> ah...
Oct 14 01:44:17 <Hydroxide> so there is an ovi sync client on the n900?
Oct 14 01:44:23 <Texrat> half a client
Oct 14 01:44:27 <Hydroxide> ah
Oct 14 01:44:29 <Texrat> lol...it seems
Oct 14 01:44:36 <Hydroxide> so they're trying to make it work but it doesn't ... that's different :)
Oct 14 01:44:49 <Texrat> it tries to sync and can't complete the task...
Oct 14 01:44:54 <Hydroxide> I don't have a device since I didn't go to maemo summit...
Oct 14 01:45:28 <zerojay> qwerty12_N810: https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/classic-gaming-wallpapers_1.3-1maemo1/i386.build.log.FAILED.txt
Oct 14 01:46:16 <GeneralAntilles> Haaaa
Oct 14 01:47:01 * Hydroxide is a debian developer but not very involved yet in maemo - never got into the habit of carrying my 770 or my n800 with me enough to start hacking much on them, because they were in addition to carrying a phone
Oct 14 01:47:10 <Hydroxide> hopefully this will change that.
Oct 14 01:47:24 <qwerty12_N810> zerojay: Is your architecture in debian/control any or all?
Oct 14 01:47:29 <zerojay> Well, we'll be glad to have you.
Oct 14 01:47:34 <zerojay> qwerty12_N810: I think it's any. :/
Oct 14 01:48:00 <lcuk> zerojay, shhh we might not be glad
Oct 14 01:48:20 <zerojay> lcuk: lol... shaddap. :)
Oct 14 01:48:23 <lcuk> :D debian devs are wild beasts
Oct 14 01:48:41 <zerojay> I figure I've run one person out of Maemo today, I might as well try to get someone to want to stay too. ;)
Oct 14 01:48:48 <qwerty12_N810> zerojay: Make it all; there's no need to have it built twice for i386 and arm anyway
Oct 14 01:48:56 <GeneralAntilles> Hydroxide, might want to talk to jeremiah. He hails from Debian, too.
Oct 14 01:49:23 <GeneralAntilles> zerojay, psh, it's not about the quantity, it's about the quality. :P
Oct 14 01:49:30 <lcuk> Hydroxide, which phone do you hack on atm
Oct 14 01:49:41 <GeneralAntilles> Get back to me when you manage to run some long-timers out. :D
Oct 14 01:49:55 <zerojay> qwerty12_N810: Hey... by the way, thanks for helping me out with all this. You've been nothing but patient with me and extremely helpful.
Oct 14 01:50:11 <Hydroxide> lcuk: right now I don't hack on a phone - very few are hackable in a debian-geek-friendly way. I'm looking forward to the N900
Oct 14 01:50:42 <GeneralAntilles> qwerty12_N810, everybody's foot stool. :P
Oct 14 01:50:51 <Hydroxide> GeneralAntilles: is he involved in the debian community or a debian user who hasn't gotten involved in the debian community? no problem either way, but just trying to think if I might know him
Oct 14 01:50:58 <qwerty12_N810> zerojay: No problem, Streets of Rage did it for me :p
Oct 14 01:51:13 <GeneralAntilles> Hydroxide, Jeremiah Foster? Packages Perl stuff, current http://maemo.org debmaster.
Oct 14 01:51:15 <qwerty12_N810> GeneralAntilles: Don't make me make a shitton of camelCase wiki articles
Oct 14 01:51:46 <lcuk> camelcase should be all lowercase
Oct 14 01:52:20 <Hydroxide> GeneralAntilles: oh, there's his name in the pkg-perl alioth project. cool.
Oct 14 01:53:05 <zerojay> qwerty12_N810: One Chrono Trigger and two Earthbound backgrounds in this new .deb.
Oct 14 01:53:24 <GeneralAntilles> droool
Oct 14 01:53:36 * qwerty12_N810 has never played either :/
Oct 14 01:53:51 <GeneralAntilles> !
Oct 14 01:54:01 <zerojay> GeneralAntilles: It was you that was asking, wasn't it?
Oct 14 01:54:04 <GeneralAntilles> Well, that's why we have all of these wonderful emulators on the N900. :P
Oct 14 01:54:08 <GeneralAntilles> Earthbound
Oct 14 01:54:35 <zerojay> GeneralAntilles: The Chrono Trigger one is 1000AD's world map. Earthbound is Onett and Threed.
Oct 14 01:54:57 <zerojay> Onett needed major changes to make it loopable, so it's not 100% faithful... Threed got VERY minor changes.
Oct 14 01:55:13 <zerojay> But they should be very familar, even with the changes.
Oct 14 01:55:21 <Texrat> ok girls, gotta bail
Oct 14 01:55:34 <Texrat> try to keep young qwerty out of the gutter
Oct 14 01:55:35 <GeneralAntilles> 'night
Oct 14 01:55:40 <GeneralAntilles> Too late.
Oct 14 01:55:42 <lcuk> gnite Texrat
Oct 14 01:55:42 <Texrat> ah
Oct 14 01:55:45 <Texrat> later
Oct 14 01:55:46 <qwerty12_N810> Girls? And this is coming from a Texan?
Oct 14 01:55:48 <qwerty12_N810> See ya
Oct 14 01:55:51 * GeneralAntilles prods qwerty12 with his shoe.
Oct 14 01:56:43 <qwerty12_N810> Ow
Oct 14 02:03:40 <bfrog> is there any money to be made with maemo?
Oct 14 02:03:45 <zerojay> My boss comes by my desk and sees me playing Super Mario World on the N900 and using a Wii devkit wiimote to play it with.
Oct 14 02:04:10 <GeneralAntilles> and now you're porting Assassin's Creed?
Oct 14 02:04:11 <zerojay> She goes, "What are you doooooing?" in a singsong way.
Oct 14 02:04:35 <zerojay> And when I show her, she looks at me and goes "it's a good thing you aren't evil."
Oct 14 02:04:44 <qwerty12_N810> She's gonna get together with that mall guy to rob you of your N900
Oct 14 02:04:51 <GeneralAntilles> If only she knew.
Oct 14 02:04:56 <zerojay> lol
Oct 14 02:06:02 <zerojay> classic-game-wallpapers has been queued for loading into fremantle extras-devel - YAY!
Oct 14 02:06:41 <qwerty12_N810> Nice
Oct 14 02:07:57 <zerojay> I love that the interface says "your package will be done in 15-30 minutes" and in the time it takes for me to reload the page, it's already done. :P
Oct 14 02:22:00 * GeneralAntilles refreshes the package list again.
Oct 14 02:22:54 <zerojay> Still waiting for the import process, probably.
Oct 14 02:23:17 <GeneralAntilles> MST3k on Netflix.
Oct 14 02:23:19 <GeneralAntilles> Awesome.
Oct 14 02:32:30 <orbarron|OoO> all: does someone have Maemo 5 file system up and running? I am looking for /etc/event.d I would like to see the whole file.
Oct 14 02:34:38 <orbarron|OoO> anyone....
Oct 14 02:44:13 <samad> Hello i want to implemennts contacts show , phone call and SMS's for N-900 , I found "telepathy-glib" but i dont know the the way
Oct 14 02:44:44 <samad> is there anybody who can help me to start .........
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Oct 14 02:59:56 2009