**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Oct 19 02:59:59 2009 Oct 19 03:00:48 need to order 5000 liters of fuel oil gen Oct 19 03:01:58 repair parts for lappy underwsy so i can work in front of wood stove Oct 19 03:15:24 jeremiah: ping Oct 19 03:15:29 or GeneralAntilles or someone Oct 19 03:15:39 i need help w/ dpkg-buildpackage Oct 19 03:17:27 timeless, whats prob - the postinst? Oct 19 03:17:35 is it in debian/ folder Oct 19 03:17:38 postinst isn't being packaged afaict Oct 19 03:19:26 timeless_mbp, I've never built a Debian package in my life. :P Oct 19 03:19:41 originally i built my debs by hand Oct 19 03:19:42 those were much safer Oct 19 03:19:55 arghh what evilness are you using now Oct 19 03:20:11 dpkg-buildpackage Oct 19 03:20:11 and believe me, i regret it Oct 19 03:20:40 ok, to put a postinst into the package Oct 19 03:20:49 it should just be in the debian/ folder afaik Oct 19 03:22:30 timeless, also, you build packages by hand.. Oct 19 03:22:38 ? Oct 19 03:23:01 i cant build packages on the tablet Oct 19 03:23:21 i have to defer to scratchbox for that one evilness Oct 19 03:24:02 * GeneralAntilles still needs somebody to 'splain key rebinding. Oct 19 03:24:10 There's nothing in the hal stuff that gives me any clues. Oct 19 03:25:58 this was the page about it for n810 http://www.thisismobility.com/blog/2007/12/31/adding-pipe-and-tab-to-the-n810-keyboard/ Oct 19 03:26:07 maybe you will learn something from it ? Oct 19 03:28:06 i need to sleep tho Oct 19 03:28:19 gnite timeless GeneralAntilles chritto Oct 19 03:28:30 good night Oct 19 03:28:40 g'nite Oct 19 03:28:43 lcuk, tried, didn't work. Oct 19 03:38:25 ok, got it Oct 19 03:38:27 stupid me Oct 19 03:40:54 GeneralAntilles: so... Oct 19 03:41:01 i finally have a version that i think mostly works Oct 19 03:41:08 blassey: ! Oct 19 03:41:27 hi timeless Oct 19 03:41:43 i'm looking for someone to test a package for me :) Oct 19 03:41:47 native speakers most welcome Oct 19 03:42:32 * timeless_mbp eyes ai_ni_multiple_install Oct 19 03:47:28 ouch Oct 19 03:47:45 * timeless_mbp triggers a watchdog because bounce+not responding dialog = deadlock Oct 19 03:51:16 HAL is making my brain hurt. Oct 19 03:51:23 * GeneralAntilles just wants to find the right file to edit. :( Oct 19 03:51:31 I have been trying to find a list of apps available for mer, google it seems is not my friend today Oct 19 04:13:09 * GeneralAntilles bangs head on desk. Oct 19 04:14:25 * Proteous attaches a dynamo and gets power off of GeneralAntilles headbanging Oct 19 04:43:27 lcuk, luke-jr, hit.slonopotamus.org fixed Oct 19 04:43:35 s/h/g/ Oct 19 04:43:35 slonopotamus meant: lcuk, luke-jr, git.slonopotamus.org fixed Oct 19 04:44:36 slonopotamus: cool Oct 19 04:45:45 luke-jr, was updating lighttpd recently, they moved spawn-fcgi to separate package, so i installed in instead of lighttpd but forgot that gitweb was handled by it :/ Oct 19 04:46:29 slonopotamus: not apache? O.o Oct 19 04:46:53 luke-jr, no, why? Oct 19 04:47:01 I just assume everything is apache Oct 19 04:47:30 apache is more memory-hungry Oct 19 05:07:46 i can't install curl_7.15.5-1etch3_i386.deb. How can i do this ? Oct 19 05:28:37 morning Oct 19 05:29:44 moorning Oct 19 05:32:29 i want to install libcurl what should i do ? Oct 19 05:33:03 is there any good way to tell is sdcard partly broken? Oct 19 05:33:26 fsck? Oct 19 05:34:04 lcuk, why you were looking there at all, btw? :) Oct 19 05:34:33 fsck can be run orginal fat fs too? Oct 19 05:34:51 well there is a special version Oct 19 05:35:14 ok thanks i try that Oct 19 05:35:22 fsck.msdos I think Oct 19 05:35:38 ok Oct 19 05:37:18 Hey, anybody heard of a game called World of Goo? Oct 19 05:37:31 http://2dboy.com/ Oct 19 05:37:55 It's a game for Linux/mac/windows Oct 19 05:38:28 They're making an iphone 3GS (maybe 3G too) port Oct 19 05:38:45 Top post is about that and the pay what you want sale today Oct 19 05:39:01 I think we should try to get an n900 port Oct 19 05:40:29 I suspect that a maemo port would be trivial (minor UI tweaks to linux port and recompile for arm) Oct 19 05:42:13 dmj7261: suggest on talk.* Oct 19 05:42:29 yeah, registering now Oct 19 05:43:57 or better do a port yourself, you say it will be trivial Oct 19 05:46:03 I don't have the source code Oct 19 05:46:21 It's a proprietary game that's usually $20 Oct 19 05:46:43 ok. how do you port it then? Oct 19 05:46:46 But it's cross platform already and has no drm Oct 19 05:46:55 bug the company to port it Oct 19 05:48:07 ok, you know what to do Oct 19 05:48:56 I already suggested porting it, but a lot of n900 users requesting it would likely make this indie jump on maemo Oct 19 05:51:44 there is a total of about 300+ N900 users right now Oct 19 05:52:00 How many people will have one soon? Oct 19 05:52:09 who knows? Oct 19 05:52:12 (soon being after actual release) Oct 19 05:52:29 I don't have one but will hopefully soon. Oct 19 05:59:00 Just posted about it on talk Oct 19 06:06:37 world of goo is great fun, got it for wii. would buy for this n900 Oct 19 06:06:55 vesa: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=350928#post350928 Oct 19 06:12:24 yeah, wog is definitely quite fun Oct 19 06:12:52 is it 3d game? Oct 19 06:13:35 2D, but very fun Oct 19 06:14:11 then old maemo devices can run it too? Oct 19 06:14:12 2d but I think it requires some 3d graphics Oct 19 06:14:21 so not until they get a driver Oct 19 06:14:21 ok Oct 19 06:14:25 I think it's opengl Oct 19 06:14:28 probably needs some form of opengl Oct 19 06:14:46 They mentioned an iphone 3GS port Oct 19 06:15:02 (and weren't sure if the 3G could handle it) Oct 19 06:15:11 wold of goo uses GL, so a n900 port would need a GL -> GLES 2.0 port Oct 19 06:15:13 done ?) Oct 19 06:15:29 iphone 3g is gles too isn't it? Oct 19 06:15:39 iphone 3GS port -> opengl es 2.0 should be done Oct 19 06:15:42 or 3gs Oct 19 06:16:05 http://2dboy.com/ read the top post Oct 19 06:16:42 combine an iphone port + a linux port should be something like a maemo port Oct 19 06:18:20 thanks vesa Oct 19 06:20:06 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHmH_U5-YL8 Oct 19 06:22:58 WoG would make an excellent Maemo Select app! Oct 19 07:08:20 i want to install libcurl what should i do ? Oct 19 07:08:35 use apt-get like everyone else Oct 19 07:08:41 1. learn to use apt-get Oct 19 07:08:43 3. use it Oct 19 07:25:32 morning Oct 19 07:27:54 tigert: yes Oct 19 07:28:01 * timeless_mbp is looking for testers Oct 19 07:28:13 timeless, for what? Oct 19 07:30:26 Oh.. I'm strictly british English.. so if you need someone to notice where you've screwed up translations, I'll be pointing out the opposite. :-P Oct 19 07:32:02 But I should have some time this afternoon to look at it, if you just want to see if it breaks things. Oct 19 07:33:02 there's a british variant for this floating around Oct 19 07:33:04 it's in my tree Oct 19 07:33:14 rmt: actually Oct 19 07:33:26 you can take advantage of the most recent feature Oct 19 07:33:32 you can look up strings and compare them :) Oct 19 07:33:45 well, comparing isn't very easy, since you'll get a lot of stuff you don't care about Oct 19 07:33:48 but you can try :) Oct 19 07:38:48 rmt: nah, brits have the correct english anyway Oct 19 07:38:51 Oct 19 07:39:29 hmm Oct 19 07:39:34 tigert: james disagrees :) Oct 19 07:39:37 transmission should really renice it self or something Oct 19 07:39:48 I think the Americans stopped far too soon with their language changes .. and now it's still impractical, but just looks silly. Oct 19 07:40:02 tigert: it seems to be issuing shitloads of system calls Oct 19 07:40:10 tigert: doubt that rnicing will fix that Oct 19 07:40:32 I think it helped a bit Oct 19 07:41:38 but I guess the problem is that it opens a ton of network connections too Oct 19 07:41:59 that too, but I still suspect polling and non-blocking reads in a tight loop Oct 19 07:42:09 strace results seem to support that Oct 19 07:42:15 yea Oct 19 07:42:23 its a shame, I wonder if it could be better Oct 19 07:42:39 since its a nice app but the performance hogging is just insane Oct 19 07:43:00 * timeless_mbp frowns Oct 19 07:43:08 did the maemo 4 version have the same issues? Oct 19 07:43:08 is it possible to have a debian/foo.changelog ? Oct 19 07:43:22 I didnt use maemo4 version Oct 19 07:43:32 tigert: I looked at it but could not figure out what is going on so far Oct 19 07:43:33 this is now nicer because it has more finger-friendly ui Oct 19 07:43:45 tigert: Really need some torrent export to take a look Oct 19 07:43:51 s/export/expert Oct 19 07:43:52 yeah Oct 19 07:46:18 Anyone knows the Pipeline guy who did the original Transmission port? Oct 19 07:46:26 Is he on IRC? =) Oct 19 07:52:30 renicing seems to definitely help Oct 19 07:52:47 but it could be just the fact that transmission opens all the shit in the beginning Oct 19 07:52:52 and things just calm down after that Oct 19 07:54:17 not really Oct 19 07:54:26 start a few transfers and see it slow down to a crawl Oct 19 07:54:55 compare that to a program that just does while(1) {} - this program will not slow your system to a crawl Oct 19 07:54:59 right Oct 19 07:55:12 yea, because a busylooping app is easy to multitask Oct 19 07:55:16 just eats cpu Oct 19 07:55:18 so we definitely are dealing with a lot of I/O and/or kernel calls Oct 19 07:55:19 yep Oct 19 07:55:26 iowait is much harder issue Oct 19 07:55:34 I think you are right Oct 19 07:55:39 Remember that goddamn Flash in Diablo? It did gettimeofday() like that Oct 19 07:55:53 then again torrenting on 3G... not going to start multiple torrents at once ;) Oct 19 07:55:59 tigert: actually if it just waited for io, it would be even easier than busy loop Oct 19 07:56:12 tigert: the problem is that it does polling for io Oct 19 07:56:51 And if I were a little bit brighter and my oracular balls a little bit shinier, I would be able to track down where it polls... Oct 19 07:56:51 right Oct 19 07:56:57 ;) Oct 19 08:03:30 RST38h: surely you can install -dbg packages and use oprofile? Oct 19 08:05:24 i want to install libcurl what should i do ? Oct 19 08:05:33 * timeless_mbp kicks samad Oct 19 08:05:44 go read an intro to debian guide Oct 19 08:05:49 focus on the apt-get bit Oct 19 08:05:57 or go play with HAM and read about Red Pill Oct 19 08:11:26 jo Oct 19 08:13:06 lbt: pong Oct 19 08:13:42 morning Jaffa Oct 19 08:13:52 did you catch my msg last night? Oct 19 08:14:00 I did. Oct 19 08:14:28 I'm trying to provide some sane APIs in Qt Oct 19 08:14:41 Right. Oct 19 08:14:45 like signal inBackGround() Oct 19 08:15:11 so the QHildonMainWindow emits that and the app can do the right thing Oct 19 08:15:36 * Jaffa nods. Sounds sensible. Oct 19 08:15:42 also "signal saveState()" and some rotation ones... Oct 19 08:15:54 essentially abstractions of the Hildon desktop environment Oct 19 08:16:20 so looking to determine the implementation algos for M5 Oct 19 08:16:39 hmm Oct 19 08:16:49 First question is if they should be trigger-oriented ('inBackground') or functionality oriented: 'onRequestStopProcessing(BackgroundType {BACKGROUND, DISPLAY_OFF} Oct 19 08:17:15 smile to the camera ;) Oct 19 08:18:19 you can breathe again Oct 19 08:21:38 Hmm, I can't log in to maemo.org Oct 19 08:26:33 * timeless_mbp looks for a dpkg expert Oct 19 08:26:44 timeless_mbp hm Oct 19 08:26:55 programming or using? Oct 19 08:27:00 building Oct 19 08:27:04 optify? Oct 19 08:27:07 nah Oct 19 08:27:17 i want to generate two packages foo and bar Oct 19 08:27:18 so whats the problem? Oct 19 08:27:24 yes Oct 19 08:27:31 can i have debian/foo.changelog and debian/bar.changelog ? Oct 19 08:27:32 from one source package? Oct 19 08:27:35 yes Oct 19 08:27:46 didnt saw this yet Oct 19 08:27:49 well, from one source directory Oct 19 08:27:57 i haven't actually *packaged* my sources yet :) Oct 19 08:29:07 timeless_mbp sorry always I saw only one changelog Oct 19 08:29:37 why you cant write it into one? Oct 19 08:29:52 well, i'm maintaining two competing products :) Oct 19 08:29:55 enus1 and engb1 Oct 19 08:30:27 they're very related, so i'd rather avoid having distinct source directories Oct 19 08:30:36 (i'm using symlinks to make dpkg-buildpackage happy) Oct 19 08:30:49 Jaffa: yep ... so a set of meaningful states and a stateChangeNotification() event sounds good Oct 19 08:30:50 whahahahaa Oct 19 08:32:35 timeless_mbp: changelog is a src changelog Oct 19 08:32:47 nothing to stop you managing stuff in docs/ Oct 19 08:32:54 does the changelog not get packaged into the packages itself? Oct 19 08:33:01 for user consumption and packaging Oct 19 08:33:05 yes it does Oct 19 08:33:25 hm which changelog you mean? Oct 19 08:33:27 should have said "per src changelog" Oct 19 08:33:28 in dpkg-buildpackage, the changelog affects the package versioning Oct 19 08:33:34 debian.changelog? Oct 19 08:33:37 it does Oct 19 08:33:41 or normal foo.changelog Oct 19 08:33:48 debian/changelog Oct 19 08:33:53 i thought i was relatively clear Oct 19 08:34:18 make two debian dirs Oct 19 08:35:47 that's incredibly annoying :) Oct 19 08:35:52 no Oct 19 08:35:59 *sigh* Oct 19 08:36:33 it's definitely annoying Oct 19 08:36:33 no Oct 19 08:36:33 i currently have 2 symlinks and 1 directory tree Oct 19 08:36:33 even rpm dont make such errors Oct 19 08:36:52 2 products 2 changelos Oct 19 08:36:57 to do what you suggest would require ~10 symlinks and 3 directory trees Oct 19 08:37:17 use svn or git buildpackage Oct 19 08:37:30 yuck, and ick Oct 19 08:37:44 neither of those will help me much Oct 19 08:38:20 crashanddie: ping Oct 19 08:38:46 timeless_mbp: do you want x binary packages with different versions or really to ship different changelog files in different binary packages ? Oct 19 08:39:11 mostly the latter Oct 19 08:39:27 however they're vaguely related Oct 19 08:39:50 if the engb version needs to have one extra version release because there's an extra british only string fix, i want to be able to do that Oct 19 08:40:10 2 debian dirs Oct 19 08:40:15 but i don't want the 90% of the code to get out of sync Oct 19 08:40:32 hem Oct 19 08:40:44 upstream changelog and debian changelogs are no way related Oct 19 08:40:47 or one Oct 19 08:40:55 changelog Oct 19 08:40:56 you can ship two upstream changelogs per src package, no problem Oct 19 08:41:06 but the debian/changelog is unique per source package Oct 19 08:41:41 Corsac I think his problem is version bumping Oct 19 08:41:45 timeless_mbp: if you just want to affect the version number, you can do it with parameters to dpkg-gencontrol (usually via dh_gencontrol -- ) Oct 19 08:41:53 woglinde is correct Oct 19 08:41:55 woglinde: I don't see the problem, tbh Oct 19 08:42:08 if there are two sources, make two debian src packages Oct 19 08:42:15 even if upstream the sources are shared Oct 19 08:42:20 corsac *sigh* thats what I told him Oct 19 08:42:23 'upstream' Oct 19 08:42:37 in this case is a single directory tree being managed by this stupid debian junk Oct 19 08:42:45 yes, it doesn't matter if upstream and packager are the same people Oct 19 08:42:54 development and packaging are _not_ the same task Oct 19 08:42:56 timeless_mbp rpm can handle this? Oct 19 08:43:02 * timeless_mbp shrugs Oct 19 08:43:13 i could roll my own tool to handle this for .deb Oct 19 08:43:39 .deb itself could fairly easily handle this Oct 19 08:44:29 timeless_mbp: for installing different changelogs, just replace dh_installchangelogs in debian/rules with your own install/cp/whatever calls Oct 19 08:44:55 suihkulokki: ok, that sounds like the path i want Oct 19 08:45:12 timeless_mbp: actually, reading dh_installchangelogs manpage, there is a even easier solution ;) Oct 19 08:45:16 suihkulokki and how is the versioning stuff than handled? Oct 19 08:46:02 timeless_mbp: basically you want one debian source package which builds two binary packages versioned differently? Oct 19 08:46:08 suihkulokki: gah Oct 19 08:46:13 i specifically asked if that was supported Oct 19 08:46:15 everyone said no Oct 19 08:46:22 * timeless_mbp kicks everyone and gives suihkulokki a hug Oct 19 08:46:30 because nobody reads the manpages ? :) Oct 19 08:48:00 * timeless_mbp frowns Oct 19 08:48:39 woglinde: the versioning stuff is handled by dpkg-gencontrol, read the the manpage :) Oct 19 08:49:32 suihkulokki: ok Oct 19 08:49:34 so um Oct 19 08:49:43 i tried it , and it doesn't seem to like me Oct 19 08:49:43 Surely different binaries from one source is possible, not pretty, but possible Oct 19 08:50:04 okay Oct 19 08:50:19 ~s/binaries/binary versions/ Oct 19 08:50:19 so you have to override gencontrol too Oct 19 08:50:43 but than you dont need dh_installchangelogs I think Oct 19 08:54:08 Is there a pdf reader that would both support zoom and keep the view area between the page changes? (without that, reading pdf ebooks is a pain, as one gets either tiny text or hefty marginals) Oct 19 08:55:38 Lynoure: i wish Oct 19 08:55:44 please lemme know when you find one Oct 19 08:55:49 what you mostly want btw, is not that Oct 19 08:56:00 but an "ignore margins feature" Oct 19 08:57:11 No specific feature needed, just "respect my sideways scrolling and don't reset it" Oct 19 08:57:28 Evince for N800 was sufficient Oct 19 08:58:15 hmhm, evince still does that on my desktop, did it change in n900? Oct 19 08:58:26 or maybe evince has not yet been ported to fremantle? Oct 19 09:03:23 Corsac: no Evince for N900 yet Oct 19 09:03:34 ok Oct 19 09:03:48 I guess I could look into porting it, instead of being a whiner =) Oct 19 09:12:29 hm is there a way to say sdk+ please run this command not with qemu and use the i386 one? Oct 19 09:18:32 i m installing the maemo5 sdk, looks i used "sudo ./maemo-scratchbox-install_5.0beta2.sh –u user" but it looks like the script did not add user in the sbox group Oct 19 09:18:43 nor did it create the scratchbox home directory Oct 19 09:18:49 any idea how i should proceed ? Oct 19 09:23:11 let s try "sudo /scratchbox/sbin/sbox_adduser user" Oct 19 09:33:11 morning Oct 19 09:35:57 hi lardman Oct 19 09:39:50 GRmblblb, now i have the infamous Temporary failure resolving 'repository.maemo.org' Oct 19 09:40:05 hi woglinde Oct 19 09:40:18 my /etc/scratchbox/resolv.conf is the same as the host /etc/resolv.conf Oct 19 09:40:30 melmoth hm Oct 19 09:40:35 I use sdk+ Oct 19 09:40:45 there I can solve the problems easy Oct 19 09:41:19 i use http://maemo.org/development/sdks/maemo_5_beta_2_sdk_installation/ Oct 19 09:41:24 what is sdk+ ? Oct 19 09:41:30 *g* Oct 19 09:41:33 the funny thing is, it works ok in armel target Oct 19 09:43:00 grumble, my /etc/resolv.conf file within the i386 target was wrong Oct 19 09:43:32 this thing is hitting me every time since , 2007. And each time, it s another file wich is wrong Oct 19 09:46:20 melmoth: "SDK+" is the Scratchbox 2-based SDK. Oct 19 09:46:52 My N900 went from 1/2 charge to dead overnight and therefore my alarm clock didn't go off, slightly worrying Oct 19 09:47:42 Jaffa: have you grabbed my updated package? :) Oct 19 09:47:42 lardman: What? You don't charge at night? :) Oct 19 09:47:45 Jaffa: where can i find it ? Oct 19 09:47:45 lardman: sure you didnt have any internet app on? Oct 19 09:47:52 Pfffft, and now there is no af-sb-init.sh . Oct 19 09:48:01 X-Fade: had the charger in another room Oct 19 09:48:08 the maemo5 beta sdk is really , well, beta... not cooked enough Oct 19 09:48:23 add some spices Oct 19 09:48:25 ifreq: not that I know of, but I must check and see if somehoe autoconnect has been enabled Oct 19 09:48:49 lardman: check for misbehaving applets or apps that were open? Oct 19 09:48:55 morning Oct 19 09:49:55 timeless_mbp: Updated package? Oct 19 09:50:07 correct package name, working applet Oct 19 09:50:12 (well "app") Oct 19 09:50:15 app has more features Oct 19 09:50:24 * Jaffa has no idea what you're talking about... :) Oct 19 09:50:46 oh! Oct 19 09:50:52 lardman: My N900 is on charge almost all the time. Wouldn't trust it as an alarm clock if it wasn't Oct 19 09:51:15 af-sb-init scrpit is in armel target, but fails with .... qemu: uncaught target signal 11 (Segmentation fault) - core dumped Oct 19 09:51:39 Jaffa: Got woken up by a N900 which was turned off and was in a room downstairs today ;) Oct 19 09:52:10 Jaffa: Alarm turned it on nicely. Oct 19 09:52:57 hi hrw Oct 19 09:53:08 X-Fade: yeah will do Oct 19 09:53:27 question: does maemo5 finally contain all packages to build packages on device? Oct 19 09:53:39 X-Fade: my calendar's silent brightness change woke me up at times Oct 19 09:53:41 hi hrw Oct 19 09:53:43 at least in AMS Oct 19 09:53:54 hrw: building on-device is being done Oct 19 09:54:00 lardman: great Oct 19 09:54:15 hrw: What, out of the box? No, of course not. However, you can install SDK packages on Maemo 4 or Maemo 5, AFAIK Oct 19 09:54:21 timeless_mbp: blinking? Oct 19 09:54:29 keesj: were you talking about building-on device and putting together some details, etc? Oct 19 09:54:40 no, just brightness Oct 19 09:54:45 the screen went from off to bright Oct 19 09:54:47 hello, anyone using idle irc plugin for fremantle? Oct 19 09:54:52 and that was sufficient to wake me :o Oct 19 09:55:13 timeless_mbp: Wow, you must be a very light sleeper then. Oct 19 09:56:20 cosmo: No one is because it does not work. Oct 19 09:56:22 anyone know how to upload video to ovi from the N900? Oct 19 09:56:47 zerojay: well, i got it online and i can /msg to my device Oct 19 09:57:01 i was just wondering if it's possible to make it join a channel Oct 19 09:57:05 cosmo: Nope. Oct 19 09:57:13 or do anything else than just send/receive msg's Oct 19 09:57:17 Nope. Oct 19 09:57:19 lardman: play in mediaplayer. hit video, click on share icon in lower left? Oct 19 09:57:35 lardman: you should be able to select the movie and use share Oct 19 09:57:37 cosmo: The UI for multiuser chat was apparently removed in Maemo 5. Oct 19 09:57:42 once you have added ovi to your sharing accounts Oct 19 09:57:45 X-Fade: I thought it would be somewhere, just cuoldn't work out where Oct 19 09:57:46 thanks Oct 19 09:58:32 is share in the lower left? Oct 19 09:58:46 oh right, the idiots couldn't keep the buttons in consistent locations across not more than 3 apps :) Oct 19 09:58:52 timeless_mbp: yeah, that share icon is really weird. Oct 19 09:58:54 zerojay: maybe it could be hacked to do some more tricks Oct 19 09:59:18 cosmo: i don't recall strings for that stuff Oct 19 09:59:25 so hacking it would involve translating it Oct 19 09:59:31 at which point you effectively need a new app Oct 19 09:59:34 cosmo: There's way more to it than that. Oct 19 09:59:42 and since the maemo apps really aren't that great Oct 19 09:59:46 you might as well start elsewhere Oct 19 09:59:51 The ball's in Collabora's court. Oct 19 10:00:15 maemo apps have 2 features: some attempt at small screen/fingerable + some attempts at power conservation Oct 19 10:00:43 well, ok.. the messaging seems to work pretty well though Oct 19 10:01:20 is there any way to send msg from maemo to random irc user? Oct 19 10:01:55 Nope. Oct 19 10:02:19 too bad. well integrated irc client would be a killer app Oct 19 10:02:22 idle in Maemo 5 has really suffered compared to Maemo 4. Oct 19 10:02:28 Just use Xchat, I guess. Oct 19 10:04:44 cosmo, zerojay: actually, we've hacked the official UI to do multi-user chat, we just need to convince rtcom team to ship it as an easter egg :D Oct 19 10:05:31 Robot101: I knew you guys would come up with a solution at some point. Oct 19 10:05:44 i never found idle on maemo 4 Oct 19 10:06:17 It was part of RTCOMM. Oct 19 10:06:26 but i'd like to have some "always on" irc solution and use xchat when i really want to do irc Oct 19 10:06:58 does irc eat battery quickly? it at least used to have mandatory ping/pong's in protocol Oct 19 10:07:19 Robot101: interesting Oct 19 10:07:22 * timeless_mbp goes hunting Oct 19 10:07:24 i wrote the first irc client to nokia 9500 years ago, dunno if the protocol is smarter nowadays Oct 19 10:07:43 cosmo: http://www.flickr.com/photos/zerojay/3878795833/ - IRC through RTCOMM on Maemo 4. Oct 19 10:07:59 cosmo: IRC is in no way smart Oct 19 10:08:02 cosmo: If IRC used battery quick, I've never noticed it. Oct 19 10:08:40 * timeless_mbp frowns Oct 19 10:08:50 * timeless_mbp will definitely need to show a progress indicator Oct 19 10:08:56 iirc it had mandatory ping/pong messages with server every minute or so. i think it would eat battery.. Oct 19 10:09:10 3mins is the typical timeout Oct 19 10:09:14 depends on the server I guess but ping/pong happens about once per minute Oct 19 10:09:19 timeless: timeout != ping Oct 19 10:09:21 Sending one small packet shouldn't really take up that much battery, really. Oct 19 10:09:21 which means you can get away w/ 150s Oct 19 10:09:31 timeless: freenode timesout at 5 min IIRC Oct 19 10:09:36 but, it pings every 30s Oct 19 10:09:38 Once a minute really shouldn't kill your pattery. Oct 19 10:09:43 zerojay: waking up the radio is incredibly expensive Oct 19 10:09:55 so much so that we have idiots coming and asking us to break the browser Oct 19 10:09:57 Wow, where did that p come from ;) Oct 19 10:10:05 "hi, please break the browser" Oct 19 10:10:21 timeless_mbp: Well, if it was, I've never once noticed a battery life hit and I was on IRC all the time. Oct 19 10:10:21 break? Oct 19 10:10:37 "in some extremely deformed test for an impossible edge case, the browser can be harmful if the user takes their device to an incredibly stupid web service" Oct 19 10:11:04 "we'd like you to increase the per minute cost for users in countries that are charged by the bit" Oct 19 10:11:09 args Oct 19 10:11:15 where are the findutils Oct 19 10:11:19 this was not the way they worded it Oct 19 10:11:23 but these were the results Oct 19 10:11:27 I personally want the browser to always freeze if I'm not looking at it. Oct 19 10:11:43 SpeedEvil: even if it's the active app? Oct 19 10:11:45 Fuck that. Oct 19 10:11:51 we need to install eye monitoring hardware? Oct 19 10:12:06 Browser freeze means you aren't multitasking anymore. What's the point of that? Oct 19 10:12:08 timeless: well - I mean of course if it's offscreen Oct 19 10:12:23 SpeedEvil: ok, so you don't want to support irc over web in the background Oct 19 10:12:25 zerojay: maybe configurable across websites. Oct 19 10:12:33 and you don't want to support internet radio in the web browser in the background Oct 19 10:12:46 or just listening to a youtube broadcast while you do something else Oct 19 10:12:50 zerojay: 99.999% of websites I don't care about the flash/.... content continue to work in background. Oct 19 10:12:52 sadly, we've got a pref for you Oct 19 10:13:09 it might even be on by default Oct 19 10:13:13 and yes, it's user facing Oct 19 10:13:23 I don't want the browser to stop loading a webpage because I switched apps. Oct 19 10:13:51 * timeless_mbp cries Oct 19 10:13:53 zerojay: not quite that aggressive - continue loading, just don't animate Oct 19 10:13:59 That's like seeing commercials come on TV, switching channels to watch something else for a while and coming back to see the commercial paused and waiting for you. Oct 19 10:14:15 SpeedEvil: you act like we actively paint while we're hidden Oct 19 10:14:19 It already pisses me off enough that the media player app doesn't update when it's not active. Oct 19 10:14:25 we definitely like to paint when you can see us in the task switcher Oct 19 10:14:47 it means you can watch a thumbnail of a youtube video :) Oct 19 10:15:03 Can't watch a thumbnail of a local video though. Oct 19 10:15:38 Even though it clearly shows that going on in Nokia's marketing vids. Oct 19 10:15:52 it did? Oct 19 10:15:57 Yes, it did. Oct 19 10:16:00 Personally regrettably I - if I was to purchase one - would be on quite limited bandwidth. So I'd like to be able to stop websites doing stuff in the background. Oct 19 10:16:01 "oops" Oct 19 10:16:25 SpeedEvil: as i said, we have a user facing pref for this Oct 19 10:16:42 I don't see the 'it causes users more cost' Oct 19 10:16:45 And while I'm bitching, why is it that if the screen is off and I touch the screen to bring it back on, ONLY Maemo Browser sees and accepts the click instead of just lighting up first and waiting for the next click? Oct 19 10:16:50 I was trying to argue that. Oct 19 10:16:55 I've just woken up Oct 19 10:17:05 I end up clicking on links accidentally all the time in browser because of it. Oct 19 10:17:06 SpeedEvil: this is different Oct 19 10:17:15 No other app has this issue. Oct 19 10:17:18 zerojay: Yeah indeed, I noticed that too. Oct 19 10:17:21 this was a demand from modem power monitors to break network connections aggressively Oct 19 10:17:30 ah Oct 19 10:17:30 zerojay: Annoys me a lot ;) Oct 19 10:17:41 timeless: like keep-alive http Oct 19 10:17:42 and if you send a break signal, and then later send a new connect signal Oct 19 10:17:48 SpeedEvil: yep Oct 19 10:17:51 you've sent more data Oct 19 10:17:56 and if you're charged for the data Oct 19 10:18:04 Yeah, it's these small issues that bug me... stuff I wish I could have been on the inside to help fix before it got out into the wild. Oct 19 10:18:05 then you're paying for something that well... Oct 19 10:18:21 zerojay: fix which, the marketing video? Oct 19 10:18:32 * SpeedEvil is currently trying to do a web-hypercompressor. Fun. Oct 19 10:18:35 the marketing team didn't even give me enough time to point out their bugs Oct 19 10:18:52 SpeedEvil: i'm quite happy w/ SkyFire on my S60 phones Oct 19 10:18:56 timeless_mbp: No, all the random small things that I end up seeing all over the place that almost no one else ever notices. Oct 19 10:19:08 timeless: opensource? Oct 19 10:19:22 it's built on gecko, does that count? Oct 19 10:20:17 timeless: dunno - I'm looking for a generic http proxy that does differential rsync-like transfers between a device cache, and a servers copy of it. Oct 19 10:20:34 timeless: preliminary indications are very good on compression. Oct 19 10:20:40 so... Oct 19 10:20:47 the browser doesn't have any disk cache Oct 19 10:20:59 if you want to give your system a nice win Oct 19 10:21:07 get a browser that has one ... Oct 19 10:21:09 * timeless_mbp kicks someone Oct 19 10:21:28 SpeedEvil: the question is, what kind of sites are you visiting? Oct 19 10:21:55 timeless: This is a http proxy - it has a ~50M disk cache - say on the device. It has a copy of this cache on the proxy server. Any downloaded page is served as diffs between the local cache - if it'd help. Oct 19 10:22:10 timeless: ebay, youtube, slashdot, newspaper websites, ... Oct 19 10:22:15 twitter? Oct 19 10:22:21 And yes, graphics are a seperate issue Oct 19 10:22:32 graphics aren't that interesting Oct 19 10:22:40 what's interesting is sites that update a lot Oct 19 10:22:52 or that rely on AJAX Oct 19 10:22:54 Yes, that's the specific use-case. Oct 19 10:23:03 ebay.com - hit up the frontpage. It's ~100k. Oct 19 10:23:09 It varies on most loads. Oct 19 10:23:18 The actual varying content is ~0.5K most times Oct 19 10:23:47 a compressed diff of the page gets really quite small, well over an order of magnitude better than simply gzipping. Oct 19 10:24:18 Not a bad idea, but honestly sounds a bit scary. Oct 19 10:24:23 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=351020#post351020 Oct 19 10:24:56 zerojay: It basically means you give your entire history to the proxy server. Initially, this is just for personal use. Oct 19 10:25:00 hrw: Okay... so...? Oct 19 10:25:07 i'm trying to package a python program using dpkg-buildpackage, but the resulting .deb installs to /scratchbox/tools/ rather than /, can anyone tell me what i'm doing wrong? Oct 19 10:25:21 zerojay: wrong window,sorry Oct 19 10:25:40 Another big win is ebay/auction1 - if you go to ebay/auction2 - a _lot_ of text in the page is identical, and if you can diff auction2 from auction1... Oct 19 10:26:50 SpeedEvil: what I would like to see is gzipped imap server+client Oct 19 10:27:10 hrw: The same principle would be plausible to implement - but I'm doing http first Oct 19 10:27:58 fwiw, nokia messaging does something Oct 19 10:28:08 it basically doesn't use pop/imap for client to proxy Oct 19 10:28:17 not sure what it does use Oct 19 10:28:25 and i'm pretty sure i don't want to know Oct 19 10:28:25 is there a httpd +wiki template for maemo based machines? (dreaming of mini wiki server) Oct 19 10:28:41 but would you trust nokia messaging w/ the password for your mailbox? Oct 19 10:29:30 nokia messaging... I tried that on S60 phone and switched to other client Oct 19 10:29:44 timeless: my initial use-case for this compressor is running on my neo1973 phone, and my desktop at home. So any privacy concerns don't occur. Oct 19 10:29:58 timeless: as I'll even be snooping https Oct 19 10:30:20 * timeless_mbp nods Oct 19 10:32:40 ok, i need someone w/ some scripting knowledge Oct 19 10:32:52 i need someone to figure out why my locale browser isn't working Oct 19 10:32:56 (properly) Oct 19 10:39:49 i don't get it. czech hardware keyboard layout lets you enter all diacritical letters without using onscreen palette. polish hardware keyboard layout does not let you enter a single diacritical letter without using onscreen palette. FAIL. Oct 19 10:40:13 hrw: The Maemo version is really really cool Oct 19 10:40:47 Andre: please note that if you have got US hardware keyboar dyou cannot even change to any of these with Ctrl+Space Oct 19 10:41:16 RST38h, i know :-( see the bug report about it... Oct 19 10:41:18 Yea, was surprised to find that it exists since Maemo4, actually Oct 19 10:41:21 somebody should be fired for the polish keyboard layout.... grrr Oct 19 10:42:03 It is actually one of things that have a good enough chance of being fixed as long as you supply new layout file to the report Oct 19 10:42:24 At least the brain damaged Russian layout has been fixed Oct 19 10:42:35 oh really? haven't tried yet Oct 19 10:43:09 andre: Have to find a Pole at Maemo team to drive this though Oct 19 10:43:27 i know some, but not in this area, more like browser :-/ Oct 19 10:43:43 ouch Oct 19 10:43:43 andre__: install my package again :) Oct 19 10:43:57 RST38h: the key layouts were picked Oct 19 10:44:03 there's a rumor of a chance they might shift Oct 19 10:44:05 timeless_mbp, no idea what you refer to Oct 19 10:44:10 but the hardware layout is printed Oct 19 10:44:12 you can't change it Oct 19 10:44:45 well, I mean the virtual layout Oct 19 10:44:48 nnod: you're in the right place :) Oct 19 10:44:53 physical you can't do much, yes Oct 19 10:46:04 nnod: keep an eye out for jeremiah - he may know. Also I think this may have come up last night so you may want to check the logs... Oct 19 10:49:49 andre__: there are few Polish people interested in fixing it Oct 19 10:50:09 feel free to vote for https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5479 Oct 19 10:50:12 RST38h: is it able to display 10 mails on one screen (in a list view)? Oct 19 10:50:22 andre__: will do Oct 19 10:50:26 andre__: no n900 here anyway Oct 19 10:54:06 lbt: pong Oct 19 10:54:13 timeless: pong Oct 19 10:54:37 jeremiah hi.... I have lots of things for you :) Oct 19 10:54:54 If only I could remember.... Oct 19 10:55:14 One of them was helping to package OBS itself Oct 19 10:55:15 anyone with a device able to confirm if its possible to add more than one APN for 3g/gprs? or is it still limited to one? Oct 19 10:55:30 frals: how? Oct 19 10:55:57 should be somewhere under connectivity or something? Oct 19 10:56:19 frals: mayb doing different connection profiles? Oct 19 10:56:48 different/separata Oct 19 10:56:55 dunno how it do work in n900 Oct 19 10:57:00 i have no idea, and cant explore it since those settings arent in the sdk (as far as i can tell anyway) Oct 19 11:02:26 frals: The UI only lets you add one packet data connection Oct 19 11:02:38 frals: I *think* gconf will let you have multiple, though Oct 19 11:02:46 okey cool, thanks Oct 19 11:09:23 lbt: heh Oct 19 11:09:27 n900 charge question: it does charge by microusb but charger ends with uUSB plug or 2mm->uUSB adapter is used? Oct 19 11:09:38 and how much mA n900 charger has? Oct 19 11:09:47 lbt: It would be kinda cool to have an OBS on the maemo infrastructure some where Oct 19 11:09:58 lbt: But I think we have to wait for the move to the new ISP Oct 19 11:11:07 i have installed the maemo sdk, but inside the scratchbox shell i have no apt-get or glib.h Oct 19 11:11:07 hrw: the included charger ends with microUSB, but there is a circular->microUSB adaptor too I think Oct 19 11:11:23 (the maemo5) Oct 19 11:11:31 SpeedEvil: thx Oct 19 11:11:44 pancake sdk+ makes life easier Oct 19 11:11:57 ? Oct 19 11:12:59 SpeedEvil: A circular->microUSB adapter where? Oct 19 11:14:24 pancake google search maemo sdk+ Oct 19 11:14:32 anyone knows if the docs danielwilms mentioned here http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=319365#post319365 is the basic telepathy doc or if i have missed the specifics on call/sms Oct 19 11:16:03 Jaffa: please ignore me. I am basing this off something that I saw, I may have misconstrued. Oct 19 11:16:04 does it supports n900? Oct 19 11:16:32 frals: at the moment it is just the telepathy docs Oct 19 11:16:42 at least my n900 come with circular->usb adapter Oct 19 11:16:50 oh, you where in the channel :) Oct 19 11:17:10 I didn't get anything but a broken European charger that doesn't work with the N900 anyways. lol Oct 19 11:17:11 frals: we are a bit delayed with that part of the documentation ;) Oct 19 11:17:18 the extra APIs for maemo are in http://git.collabora.co.uk/?p=rtcom-telepathy-glib.git;a=summary Oct 19 11:17:19 woglinde: only for ubuntu/debian ? Oct 19 11:17:26 figured as much - any eta at all or "when its done"? :) Oct 19 11:17:52 pancake hm fremantle5.0beta1_armel For OS2009Beta1 (armel SDK) 2009-04-28 (248.8M) Oct 19 11:18:22 Robot101: thx...but there should be some additional docu soon Oct 19 11:18:30 Robot101: thanks Oct 19 11:18:43 pancake dont know I only use ubuntu or debian Oct 19 11:18:44 danielwilms: from the telepathy book? or some more stuff? Oct 19 11:18:55 ah Oct 19 11:18:59 there's a standalone installer Oct 19 11:19:01 in python Oct 19 11:19:03 will try that Oct 19 11:19:11 nobody spoke to us in rtcom about documentation - the abook team wrote some stuff for their library though Oct 19 11:19:50 lbt: Does it have anything to do with that backlogged task? Oct 19 11:20:18 Robot101 let me check that Oct 19 11:20:18 The one that popped up on mer chatter saying improve QA checking? Oct 19 11:21:05 lbt: thanks Oct 19 11:21:35 danielwilms: we have http://people.collabora.co.uk/~danni/telepathy-book/ Oct 19 11:21:44 danielwilms: its a nice start but needs more work and examples Oct 19 11:21:44 The emitters of the oscillator transistors are connected to ground, the collectors to 100R resistors to +, the bases to 10K resistors to +, and the capacitors are connected from the emitter of one transistor to the base of the other. Oct 19 11:21:46 argh Oct 19 11:21:54 danielwilms: would be good to pool any resources on docs in the same direction Oct 19 11:22:04 Failed to get distribution information.. haha Oct 19 11:23:00 Robot101 ok...I have to check that and get some more information...now I'm not completely sure ;) Oct 19 11:23:14 cosmo: so how much mA does n900 charger has? Oct 19 11:23:31 danielwilms: cool feel free to ping if you have any questions Oct 19 11:23:36 cosmo: 1200 Oct 19 11:23:43 ehm hrw ;) Oct 19 11:23:48 haha Oct 19 11:23:53 obnly supported ones are debian+ubuntu Oct 19 11:23:55 X-Fade: thx Oct 19 11:24:00 Robot101 will do Oct 19 11:24:10 the standalone script relies on deb/ubu... it sucks Oct 19 11:24:13 pancake hm okay sorry Oct 19 11:24:15 thux: so more powerfull then mine 800mA one Oct 19 11:24:24 my charger is at home Oct 19 11:27:56 heya maemo Oct 19 11:28:26 lo o/ Oct 19 11:30:14 lo wazd Oct 19 11:31:20 hi wazd Oct 19 11:36:03 i'm trying to package a python program using dpkg-buildpackage, but the resulting .deb installs to /scratchbox/tools/ rather than /, can anyone tell me what i'm doing wrong? Oct 19 11:36:39 nnod: you need to modify your packaging to call python2.5 explicitely Oct 19 11:36:58 nnod: otherwise it will call "python" which in turn will call the Scratchbox's internal python (2.3) Oct 19 11:37:46 lizardo: thanks, will try that Oct 19 11:39:23 lizardo: that was the problem, changing python to python2.5 in the Makefile fixed it Oct 19 11:39:32 lizardo: thanks! Oct 19 11:41:12 nnod: :) good to know if you have python specific issues, feel free also to ask on the pymaemo-developers mailing list: https://garage.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/pymaemo-developers/ Oct 19 11:42:37 SpeedEvil: hrw: Still it's highly obscure *how* charging is actually done. The 1200mA might not be a mandatory capability of charger Oct 19 11:44:47 and it seems this and the USB-hostmode topic is still work in progress Oct 19 11:45:24 probably both closely related Oct 19 11:45:25 well USB charging from laptops is not guaranteed to provide 1200mA Oct 19 11:45:32 lol Oct 19 11:45:37 500mA is max Oct 19 11:45:50 in other news, my nokia 6600 can be charged via its microUSB port, yay, I can use the same charger for both Oct 19 11:46:01 it's highly unlikely you see 1200mA from a PC usbhost Oct 19 11:46:12 charged via its microSD port Oct 19 11:46:18 although the slim nokia charger socket is more accessible than the break-your-nails-cover-covered microusb Oct 19 11:46:25 did anyone here manage to compile a wireless module for the Nokia N810? i wanted to connect an external USB Oct 19 11:46:48 i tried compiling rt73usb, but it seems that they moved on to 2.6.27 kernels Oct 19 11:47:07 has anyone tested the n900 with a mintyboost charger yet? Oct 19 11:47:50 nnod: not with mintyboost, but with Openmoko Freerunner ;-P Oct 19 11:48:10 nnod: didn't work out that smooth Oct 19 11:49:26 DocScrutinizer: you mean charging the n900 from the freerunner? Oct 19 11:51:29 I love how "ten oldest open enhancements" list in the bug jar has entries saying "(new this week)" Oct 19 11:51:45 the question is: Does N900 follow the Nokiacharger / USB2.0- charger supplement scheme, which requires a arther "soft" PSU that drops voltage on increasing curent. Or does N900 simply try to draw whatever current from USB-VBUS unconditionally and assuming a "hard" PSU that is supposed to cope with max current the N900 ay ask for Oct 19 11:52:06 nnod: yep, charging N900 from FR Oct 19 11:52:26 DocScrutinizer, there's a MicroUSB charging specification. Might have clues Oct 19 11:52:31 FR is a "hard" PSU with 500mA max Oct 19 11:52:56 ShadowJK: [2009-10-19 13:51:45] the question is: Does N900 follow the Nokiacharger / USB2.0- charger supplement scheme Oct 19 11:53:03 wow, must be a big drain on the battery Oct 19 11:53:28 ShadowJK: USB2.0- charger supplement == MicroUSB charging specification Oct 19 11:53:52 lcuk: alive? Oct 19 11:53:54 I know someone made their freerunner extremely hot when they used it to charge N900 ;-) Oct 19 11:54:12 ShadowJK: that's what I referred to Oct 19 11:54:34 DocScrutinizer: I don't think anyone knowing that stuff idles on irc, you might try maemo-devel for better luck Oct 19 11:54:49 maemo-devel mailing list, that is Oct 19 11:54:52 how much current can an usb port supply? Oct 19 11:54:57 Corsac, 500mA Oct 19 11:55:00 ok Oct 19 11:55:04 Corsac: it's a complex subject. Oct 19 11:55:13 suihkulokki: thanks a lot Oct 19 11:55:17 so with 7 usb port one could charge a touchbook Oct 19 11:55:21 * Corsac hides Oct 19 11:55:28 Corsac: The normal USB port is specified to provide 500mA Oct 19 11:55:34 Corsac, only if the USB hub has a powersupply capable of it Oct 19 11:55:43 but: also, when n900 is in the market, it will be usb certified, including ensuring it adheres to all requirements of usb charging spec Oct 19 11:55:45 Corsac: but it may in practice supply more. Oct 19 11:55:46 yeah, 7 independant usb port Oct 19 11:55:52 Corsac: USB spec says that host usb port should give 100mA and can give 500mA. It is also possible to give any amount in 0-500mA range Oct 19 11:56:29 Not quite - the device declares it uses so much current - and the host enables it or not depending on if the total of current is under 500mA. Oct 19 11:56:41 Tehre is not typically any measurement or regulation of current Oct 19 11:57:03 can the N900 work as a usb host? Oct 19 11:57:28 koala_man, current information: no Oct 19 11:57:32 SpeedEvil: the "better" host PHY chips do meassurement Oct 19 11:57:36 The port will simply turn off at some current over 500mA if overloaded. (where some current may be 0.55A or 2A, depending on stuff) Oct 19 11:57:42 yes - it's increasing Oct 19 11:57:46 * suihkulokki has seen usb hubs that feed electricity towards the host pc too, so with cheap hubs anything goes, it seems.. Oct 19 11:57:48 every PHY has to do OC prot Oct 19 11:58:03 koala_man: i think i saw the usb mode changer in repository.. i guess it's like in previous maemo devices Oct 19 11:58:15 SpeedEvil: (will simply) exactly Oct 19 11:58:19 suihkulokki, those are funny "Hey, how come the fan on my video card spins even when my computer is off?" Oct 19 11:58:20 I don't know how it is in previous maemo devices :O Oct 19 11:58:59 hrw, yeah Oct 19 11:59:07 suihkulokki: that's really nasty Oct 19 11:59:14 cosmo: the existence of software doesn't imply that it actually works Oct 19 11:59:33 DocScrutinizer, it's the battle of the PSUs, the weaker PSU goes up in smoke eventually :-) Oct 19 11:59:38 suihkulokki: though great for FR which can use this to charge in hostmode even Oct 19 11:59:38 it could be a straight recompile of a program that tries to poke values into a file in /sys Oct 19 11:59:44 lcuk: query read please Oct 19 11:59:46 ShadowJK: or "Hey how come the sheevaplug still works over ssh when in plugged it of the wall" Oct 19 11:59:46 no guarantees that that /sys file actually exists in maemo 5's kernel Oct 19 12:00:06 suihkulokki, my NSLU2 did that :-) Oct 19 12:00:11 but then the HUBs PSU died :-( Oct 19 12:00:19 read what hrw Oct 19 12:00:23 ahh Oct 19 12:00:27 ShadowJK: I wonder why.. :P Oct 19 12:03:26 sp3000: so, i found my problem :) Oct 19 12:06:33 mgedmin: true. but i doubt no-one would release it in the repos if it wouldn't work at all Oct 19 12:07:08 cosmo: people release it to the repos so they (or somebody else) can install it and see whether it works or not Oct 19 12:07:24 I haven't heard anybody report "hey, usb host works!" yet Oct 19 12:07:36 and I think there are some N900-owners around here to do that Oct 19 12:07:53 so far I've heard "we've been told it doesn't; maybe, just maybe, you could hack something with an external usb power injector etc." Oct 19 12:08:05 like with 770 Oct 19 12:08:20 (check sysfs, try switching usb-mode) Oct 19 12:08:39 well, i have a n900 but no usb cable to test with here Oct 19 12:08:40 mgedmin: exactly Oct 19 12:08:54 On my N900, I usually just turn on screen lock , I don't use the lock function that locks it with a number. I don't have a watch, so for checking time and date, I just push the power button on the top, then the device powers up and shows the time and date, along with the "slider" widget to actually unlock the screen. Oct 19 12:08:56 DocScrutinizer: But you know that the number of people with a voltmeter, or the knowledge to do cables, and ... Oct 19 12:08:58 For me, it's annoying that I cannot turn off the device with a single press on the power button again. So either I have to really unlock the device with the slider widget, then press the power button and select lock again. Or I have to wait for 5 seconds on the slider screen, then it turns off automatically. Oct 19 12:09:02 Of course there is the danger, that presses on the touchscreen will keep it alive afterwards. Does anybody find this annoying as well? Oct 19 12:09:04 and the interest is tiny Oct 19 12:09:27 SpeedEvil: a shame :-S Oct 19 12:09:42 yes Oct 19 12:10:55 mihu: no; I just wait 5 seconds Oct 19 12:11:05 How does one set the font size for a gtk.label using python? Oct 19 12:11:12 re usb host, there's also some drivers on t.m.o. waiting for testers Oct 19 12:11:26 mihu: you can wiggle the side-slider twice Oct 19 12:11:33 * timeless_mbp rotfl Oct 19 12:11:36 HAL is obsolete? Oct 19 12:11:57 not side slider; how do you call that springy thingy on the side? lock switch, that's what Oct 19 12:12:18 timeless_mbp: have you missed the DevKit crusade? Oct 19 12:12:31 HAL is out of fashion these days Oct 19 12:12:37 i just got the memo! Oct 19 12:13:06 mgedmin: That's interesing, yes the lock switch works. But I would prefer that the power button just locks the device again. Should be easy to fix, or? Oct 19 12:13:22 * mgedmin shrugs, indicating don't care Oct 19 12:13:27 you want the power button to lock the device? Oct 19 12:13:31 * timeless_mbp frowns Oct 19 12:13:38 doesn't make sense :) Oct 19 12:14:18 what was wrong with hal? let me guess, not enough xml? Oct 19 12:14:41 it wouldnt open the SIM bay doors Oct 19 12:14:43 timeless_mbp: Nope, please re-read my initial post. Device is screen-locked (no number lock) => press power button => device turns on, shows slider => press power button again => nothing. IMO it should just send the device back to screen-lock. Oct 19 12:14:44 dunno, my memo just said that hal wasn't expressive enough for networking from some platforms Oct 19 12:15:09 lizardo: now i remember why i changed python2.5 to python in the Makefile the first place, autobuilder fails because it can't find python2.5. any ideas? Oct 19 12:15:32 mihu: so if the device is screen locked Oct 19 12:15:42 and you press and hold the power key, do you expect it to turn off? Oct 19 12:15:48 i'd claim that's unexpected Oct 19 12:15:52 nnod: you need to add "python-dev" to Build-Depends, on debian/control Oct 19 12:15:58 however, if the screen is on (at device lock) Oct 19 12:16:24 then pressing and holding the power key for a while will kill the device Oct 19 12:16:36 with your requested behavior, things get really confusing Oct 19 12:17:24 timeless_mbp: No, please don't get confused. 8-) Or am I getting confused. I have set my device to german language, so I don't know how it the modes are called in english. Let me switch it to english, one moment. Oct 19 12:17:35 ShadowJK: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Halsectomy has a couple of links about why hal is being deprecated Oct 19 12:19:07 Nice choice of the page name Oct 19 12:20:43 timeless_mbp: Ok. N900 is up and running => press power button short => "Lock screen and keys". Then: press power button short again "Swipe to unlock" message appears. Now when pressing the power button short again, nothing happens. But I would expect that this would send the N900 to "Lock screen and keys" mode again. Instead I have to wait 5 seconds, or unlock the device and lock it again. Oct 19 12:20:54 stop Oct 19 12:21:01 from the swipe to unlock screen Oct 19 12:21:07 press and hold the power key for 15s Oct 19 12:21:16 does the device turn off? Oct 19 12:21:53 that should always work, as I'd expect hat to be a hw feature of the PMU Oct 19 12:22:13 naah. power key is sw controlled Oct 19 12:22:19 timeless_mbp: Yes it does. But this is not what I want. A short press on the power button while in "swipe to unlock" mode, should send the device back to "Lock screen and keys" mode. Oct 19 12:22:32 sorry Oct 19 12:22:35 Stskeeps: surely not entirely ;-D Oct 19 12:22:40 if your device is in your pocked and locked Oct 19 12:22:49 do you want press and hold on the power key to kill it? Oct 19 12:22:54 Stskeeps: hard to do sw-control when cpu is unpowered Oct 19 12:23:06 timeless_mbp: yep Oct 19 12:23:08 DocScrutinizer: on n8x0 it was like that. Oct 19 12:23:54 timeless_mbp: My use case is that I don't have a watch. With my other cell phone I do: pull out of pocket, press power button once, look at time & date, press power button again to send it back to sleep, put into pocket again. This does not work with N900. Oct 19 12:24:02 any easy way to install mplayer or vlc on a N900? Oct 19 12:24:14 mihu, it doesn't STAY locked when you press power button? Oct 19 12:24:15 mihu: why do you care? just look at the time on the unlock screen and put the phone back in the pocket. Oct 19 12:24:26 timeless_mbp: it's not any more likely to accidentally press powerbutton for 15sec in your pocket, than to accidentally unlock with slider switch Oct 19 12:24:51 Remember that there is still the proximity sensor. Oct 19 12:24:57 mihu: perfect usecase Oct 19 12:25:05 Does pressing powerbutton really make it unlock? Oct 19 12:25:39 suihkulokki: Any contact on the touch screen will keep it in the "swipe to unlock" mode. You have to wait 5 seconds without any touch on the touchscreen. That sucks. Oct 19 12:26:15 ShadowJK: No, it does not fully unlock. Just the "swipe to unlock" dialog pops up, which shows the date & time. Oct 19 12:26:20 the swipe to unlock screen doesn't have time/calendar? Oct 19 12:26:23 suihkulokki: that's exactly the problem. Lock screen rarely means the timer-reset for autosuspend on ts-event is disabled Oct 19 12:26:26 ah Oct 19 12:26:42 can i divorce my girlfriend Oct 19 12:26:44 DocScrutinizer: there is no autosuspend Oct 19 12:26:45 DocScrutinizer: the slider should be relatively hard to hit Oct 19 12:26:49 if it isn't, then it has issues Oct 19 12:27:10 suihkulokki: ack. Sorry was misguided by other less cute devices Oct 19 12:27:26 lcuk: sure, but first you would have to marry her Oct 19 12:28:03 of cripes Oct 19 12:28:07 oh cripes even Oct 19 12:28:51 suihkulokki: still the basic requirement of lockscreen should not reset any timer on touch-event, remains the same Oct 19 12:29:09 lcuk: You can, wed her first, then divorce the next day! Oct 19 12:29:23 I need a second pair of eyes Oct 19 12:29:33 mgedmin: at which part of your body? Oct 19 12:29:34 can somebody look at https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5553 and say what should be done about the bug? Oct 19 12:29:48 it's not really a bug, just a very very unintuitive "works as designed" "feature" Oct 19 12:30:05 mgedmin: interesting Oct 19 12:30:12 I sort of closed it as invalid sort of by accident Oct 19 12:30:29 so... Oct 19 12:30:35 i'd reopen and fix the summary Oct 19 12:30:38 I'm thinking I should create a new enhancement request "provide a dialog for subscribing/unsubscribing to IMAP folders" Oct 19 12:30:44 it should say "no way to manage subscriptions to imap folders" Oct 19 12:30:51 note that you shouldn't specify "dialog" Oct 19 12:30:53 X-Fade: good point Oct 19 12:30:57 that's forcing a decision Oct 19 12:31:22 mgedmin: Should not be stated in a way that allows to classify it as enhancement Oct 19 12:31:25 shucks :( I think my phone provider uses 850/1900 frequencies, which are not compatible with the N900? :( Oct 19 12:31:28 nnod: I just noticed that you are trying to upload scrabbledict on Diablo & Chinook right ? Oct 19 12:31:36 mgedmin: Will still be classified that way, but do not create any opportunities Oct 19 12:32:02 nnod: in this case, it is better to Build-Depend on "python2.5", because "python-dev" only exists in Fremantle Oct 19 12:32:05 just how many different sets of frequencies are there? Oct 19 12:32:22 angasuleWork: N900 is quadband GSM afaik Oct 19 12:32:22 mgedmin: "Unable to see unsubscribed IMAP folders in Modest" for a title will do Oct 19 12:32:34 Thanks everybody for the discussion. I think I will file an enhancement request wrt. to that issue. Any idea into which category I should put it? Oct 19 12:32:41 mgedmin: And make sure you mention all the other masil clients that allow this in the comments Oct 19 12:32:46 no, don't ask for the ability to view unsubscribed folders Oct 19 12:32:51 DocScrutinizer: then wikipedia is wrong oh noes, how can that be? :? Oct 19 12:32:53 just the ability to manage subscriptions Oct 19 12:32:56 IIRC the n900 supports 4 frequencies for 2G and 3 frequences for 3G, but there are carriers out there who use a different 3G frequency Oct 19 12:33:00 that would probably do too Oct 19 12:33:14 Although it is somewhat more complicated than it has to be Oct 19 12:33:14 angasuleWork: Quadband-Mobiltelefon für GSM 850/900/1800/1900-Netze/EDGE Oct 19 12:33:47 Maybe mentioning that "see" and "access" a folder is two different things is in order Oct 19 12:33:48 UMTS-Netze (WCDMA 900/1700/2100) Oct 19 12:34:16 I.e. clicking on an unsubscribed folder should bring up the dialog requesting if you want a subscription to it Oct 19 12:34:31 no Oct 19 12:34:40 i can have thousands of unsubscribed folders Oct 19 12:34:50 being forced to see all unsubscribed folders all the time would be awful Oct 19 12:35:28 DocScrutinizer: It will not function on the AT&T Mobility UMTS 3G networks which use the incompatible 850 and 1900 MHz UMTS frequency bands. Oct 19 12:35:44 DocScrutinizer: those appear to be the same my provider uses, meh Oct 19 12:36:03 angasuleWork: which incompatible 850 and 1900 MHz UMTS frequency bands??? Oct 19 12:36:07 Thounsands of unsubscribed folders will be impossible to display even in the subscription dialog Oct 19 12:36:16 So with thousands of folders you are fucked either way Oct 19 12:36:24 hey! two of my photos (the most recent ones) are missing! Oct 19 12:36:33 mgedmin: Tracker. Oct 19 12:36:39 Or you have not taken them. Oct 19 12:36:44 but they were there an hour ago Oct 19 12:36:45 mgedmin: not missing, just not indexed yet? Oct 19 12:36:48 no Oct 19 12:36:52 one of them had the wrong thumbnail Oct 19 12:37:21 a manager that lets me search to select to subscribe is fine Oct 19 12:37:21 mgedmin: ugh. Oct 19 12:37:21 interesting bug btw: take photo, look at thumbnail, delete photo, take new photo, it gets the same filename and the thumbnail is not regenerated Oct 19 12:37:23 I thought maybe my n900 was just slow (because it was horribly horribly slow) Oct 19 12:37:26 (swapping all the time) Oct 19 12:37:41 so I waited, and now I go back and see if the thumbnail was updated -- but the photo isn't there any more Oct 19 12:37:42 swapping, ouch Oct 19 12:37:47 and neither is the one I took yesterday Oct 19 12:37:47 angasuleWork: Oh I see, you think your provider using UMTS on 850/1900 Oct 19 12:37:53 mgedmin: nice Oct 19 12:38:11 according to the timestamps the file is there in MyDocs/DCIM Oct 19 12:38:19 just the photos app lost track of it Oct 19 12:38:35 btw two of my older photos have large black squares with dim grey borders instead of thumbnails Oct 19 12:38:51 * mgedmin blames tracker for all the ills Oct 19 12:38:57 good choice :) Oct 19 12:39:04 any easy way to install mplayer or vlc on a N900? Oct 19 12:39:21 emanuelez: apt-get install mplayer Oct 19 12:39:25 mplayer exists in extras-devel Oct 19 12:39:28 mplayer's in extras-devel. Oct 19 12:39:33 use ham :) Oct 19 12:39:34 kmplayer too. Oct 19 12:40:18 anybody else *hate* how you get an email notification, click on it, then modest opens and just sits there doing nothing, displaying your account list? I *hate* that Oct 19 12:40:31 mgedmin: it doesn't always do that Oct 19 12:40:36 it only *usually* does that :) Oct 19 12:40:47 I don't hate it when it doesn't do that ;) Oct 19 12:40:54 mgedmin: It opens up to the new e-mail all the time for me. Oct 19 12:40:55 if there isn't a bug, please carefully research it (hint: quit the app) Oct 19 12:40:56 Sometimes I do see the new mail. Oct 19 12:41:00 I do hate a bit how when it actually displays the email it has the trash and next/prev buttons disabled Oct 19 12:41:02 then file it Oct 19 12:41:15 I've never not seen it go directly to the new e-mail. Oct 19 12:41:21 see? the "please carefully research" bit is why I don't file bugs usually Oct 19 12:41:25 lizardo: ok, thanks Oct 19 12:41:25 I'm supposed to be working now Oct 19 12:41:31 emanuelez why you want mplaer when gstreamer with dsp support is there? Oct 19 12:41:34 not filing bugs (or chatting on IRC for that matter) Oct 19 12:41:42 angasuleWork: which provider? which country? Oct 19 12:41:52 DocScrutinizer: Claro, Argentina Oct 19 12:41:53 X-Fade: openarena-data is stuck somewhere in importing process http://maemo.org/packages/view/openarena-data/ Oct 19 12:42:08 emanuelez mplayer has no dsp support only neon Oct 19 12:42:10 zerojay: it tends to happen when the n900 is busy (many apps, you're actively switching between them instead of waiting etc.) Oct 19 12:42:10 lizardo: yes, i'm trying to get it through autobuilder Oct 19 12:42:22 mgedmin: Not to me. Oct 19 12:42:37 mikkov__: hmm let me see where ;) Oct 19 12:42:40 slow remote imap server may be a prerequisite, hm Oct 19 12:43:08 mgedmin: the trick from memory is that there's a difference between having mail open and not open Oct 19 12:43:10 i'm just trying to play an mp4 video taken, funny enough, with an old nokia phone Oct 19 12:43:11 lizardo: just to clarify, is it Build-Depends on python2.5-dev or python2.5? Oct 19 12:43:19 that's the only item i know of that causes a significant difference Oct 19 12:43:29 that and maybe getting an alert for multiple messages Oct 19 12:43:40 nnod: sorry, it is "python2.5-dev" Oct 19 12:44:15 angasuleWork: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umts#W-CDMA_.28UTRA-FDD.29 might be you're really out of luck then Oct 19 12:45:14 emanuelez -> http://felipec.wordpress.com/2009/10/13/new-project-gst-dsp-with-beagleboard-demo-image/ Oct 19 12:47:09 lizardo: thanks, it's back in the queue... Oct 19 12:48:12 "Amiga Inc and Hyperion Entertainment announced a settlement over ownership and licensing over AmigaOS 4.0 and future versions." Oct 19 12:48:24 * RST38h facepalms, falling to the floor and laughing Oct 19 12:48:36 w00t Oct 19 12:48:44 you rang? Oct 19 12:48:45 ;p Oct 19 12:48:46 * lcuk drags his a1200 out of the closet Oct 19 12:48:49 haha Oct 19 12:49:04 This reminds me of a WashPost article about two last Jews in Kabul, fighting over the last Torah scroll... Oct 19 12:52:31 mikkov__: It was rejected in by the queue manager somehow. Now checking the logs to see why exactly. Oct 19 12:53:13 mikkov__: Apart for the fact that it is freaking 300MB ;) Oct 19 12:53:50 DocScrutinizer: poop :( thanks Oct 19 12:54:12 X-Fade, optify it! Oct 19 12:54:28 lcuk: I'm guessing mikkov did that ;) Oct 19 12:54:37 then why did it fail :P :D Oct 19 12:55:21 lol.. Oct 19 12:55:28 Size mismatch ;) Oct 19 12:55:38 My guess is that the copy took too long.. Oct 19 12:57:56 mikkov__: Yeah, it failed because it didn't copy the 600MB of files in place in time before the manager ran.. Oct 19 12:58:20 X-Fade uh Oct 19 12:58:37 lol Oct 19 13:01:20 mgedmin: Thanks for the patches! Oct 19 13:02:18 hi rkirti \o Oct 19 13:02:24 yo woglinde and fiferboy Oct 19 13:02:36 'lo lcuk Oct 19 13:02:37 hey lcuk Oct 19 13:02:51 * timeless_mbp grumbles Oct 19 13:02:54 maemo-launcher died Oct 19 13:02:55 hows it goin this mornin Oct 19 13:02:58 :( timeless Oct 19 13:03:28 * lcuk grumbles about app manager kinetics Oct 19 13:03:37 mikkov__: You did optify this monster, right? Oct 19 13:03:38 it has kinetics? Oct 19 13:03:53 yes! Oct 19 13:03:57 very nicely so Oct 19 13:04:03 really? Oct 19 13:04:06 anyone using scratchbox on gentoo ~amd64 ? Oct 19 13:04:10 how well does it work for 1,000 items/ Oct 19 13:04:12 yeah timeless Oct 19 13:04:16 lol Oct 19 13:04:22 bilboed-pi: try sb2 Oct 19 13:04:22 getting to "m" is a bit of a challenge Oct 19 13:04:31 scratchbox is generally a pain for 64bit Oct 19 13:04:40 bilboed-pi you have to setup 32 bit chroot and sb2 Oct 19 13:05:00 and thats funny Oct 19 13:05:10 woglinde, timeless_mbp ... why do I have this feeling it'll be easier to just install scratchbox in a vm ? :) Oct 19 13:05:12 -> chroot -> chroot and qemu Oct 19 13:05:13 hi fiferboy Oct 19 13:05:23 bilboed-pi: i just use Mer in VirtualBox Oct 19 13:05:25 it's much easier Oct 19 13:05:30 bliboed read the doku Oct 19 13:05:35 how to setup up Oct 19 13:05:36 woglinde, where ? Oct 19 13:05:41 I find chroot faster Oct 19 13:06:02 X-Fade: it uses /opt, yes Oct 19 13:06:05 * lcuk scrolls fiferboy up towards alaska Oct 19 13:06:24 mikkov__: good ;0 Oct 19 13:06:34 Alaska is very far to the North and West... Oct 19 13:06:45 bildoed-pi http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_SDK%2B_installation_on_Debian_(AMD64) Oct 19 13:06:51 X-Fade: probably should be using MyDocs, but was lazy, as ioquake3 isn't end user ready Oct 19 13:06:57 fiferboy, free scrolling Oct 19 13:07:10 bildoed-pi is your task how to get a debian chroot under gentoo Oct 19 13:07:10 mikkov__: No it still has some issues. Oct 19 13:07:15 I should have just scrolled to Amsterdam Oct 19 13:07:23 panning is allowed Oct 19 13:07:29 but it stops after each page Oct 19 13:07:35 so you have to get a bit way on the way Oct 19 13:08:36 X-Fade: I think it needs 600 MB free space on /home to install it :) Oct 19 13:09:06 mikkov__: Nice proof of concept, but not really practical. Oct 19 13:09:14 nnod: you are putting the "Build-Depends" field on the wrong place in debian/control :) Oct 19 13:09:32 nnod: it should be on the first "paragraph", where you see: Build-Depends: debhelper (>= 5) Oct 19 13:09:33 lizardo: hey, i did that :) Oct 19 13:10:13 nnod: change it to : Build-Depends: debhelper (>= 5), python2.5-dev Oct 19 13:10:24 X-Fade: if ioquake is ever good enough I'll change it to use MyDocs Oct 19 13:10:56 should an app package be installing anything at all to MyDocs Oct 19 13:10:57 * mgedmin thinks 2 gigs in home (aka /opt) ought to be enough for quake and all the other apps Oct 19 13:11:03 mikkov__: Please ping me when you do that, so I can clean up the repo. Oct 19 13:11:31 * mgedmin wishes his root partition weren't filled up to bursting already Oct 19 13:12:14 X-Fade: I won't be doing anything for it. Just would like to see it extras-devel Oct 19 13:15:14 nnod: How about only uploading for one arch until it actually builds? Oct 19 13:15:22 * timeless_mbp kicks Disconnect Oct 19 13:15:24 evil :) Oct 19 13:15:50 nnod: Your now spamming the list on all archs :) Oct 19 13:16:23 s/Your/You are/ Oct 19 13:16:23 X-Fade meant: nnod: You are now spamming the list on all archs :) Oct 19 13:26:36 mornin qwerty12_N810 Oct 19 13:26:50 Hullo, lcuk Oct 19 13:27:42 hi qwerty12_N810 Oct 19 13:28:05 Hiya, hrw. Got your eyes set on N900 emulation? :p Oct 19 13:28:26 qwerty12_N810: no, played a bit with real one (not mine) Oct 19 13:28:39 qwerty12_N810: if I would get Quim mail day before I would play more Oct 19 13:28:51 :) Oct 19 13:29:16 My one is acting up, actually Oct 19 13:30:04 :( q Oct 19 13:30:08 whats up with it Oct 19 13:30:46 did you file a bug? Oct 19 13:30:54 hiya pb Oct 19 13:31:15 hey lcuk Oct 19 13:31:27 council mailing list is council@maemo.org btw/ Oct 19 13:31:29 Seems to be loading a shitton of processes upon startup and the file manager is messing me around Oct 19 13:31:44 Just gonna reflash and be done with it Oct 19 13:32:14 council mailing? Oct 19 13:32:25 well if i am to mail council :) Oct 19 13:32:34 yes, thats correct Oct 19 13:32:39 k Oct 19 13:32:48 http://marcin.juszkiewicz.com.pl/2009/10/19/nokia-n900-discount/ Oct 19 13:32:52 lol the 'did your n900 ship today' thread is a laugh Oct 19 13:33:23 Shapeshifter: I had some fun in that thread and was told to kill myself... Oct 19 13:34:29 people can really get worked up. especially about "mid september". I've always read mid-october >:> Oct 19 13:34:35 hrw: You're certainly deserving of the discount. Whether you actually want it is another matter... Oct 19 13:34:38 Marcin, you are getting your N900 no matter what =) Oct 19 13:34:58 and you always have to add at least one months to any release date Oct 19 13:35:03 so I'm expecting it mid novermber. Oct 19 13:35:44 besides, it's the usual staggered style :) Oct 19 13:36:09 Nokia Shop gets it first, some "select" stores get some "limited" shipments next, etc Oct 19 13:36:57 nokia shop... there isn't even anything like that in Switzerland ^^ Oct 19 13:37:03 I wish there was. Oct 19 13:37:09 lots of apple shops -.- Oct 19 13:37:35 are you wishing for apple shops? Oct 19 13:38:13 no. there _are_ lots of apple shops, while there isn't a single nokia shop. Oct 19 13:38:14 hm do I get one too when finished the jalimo stuff? Oct 19 13:39:43 hm I should port qtnx now to fremantle Oct 19 13:39:45 shoulnt be that hard Oct 19 13:40:12 augh, I suck at web paes Oct 19 13:40:14 augh, I suck at web pages Oct 19 13:40:28 how do I get to the Maemo 5 SDK documentation from the maemo.org front page? Oct 19 13:40:34 Shapeshifter: nokia shops? man... after many years nokia finally opened one in Poland Oct 19 13:40:44 Shapeshifter: and it never had tablets Oct 19 13:40:50 duh: press on 'development', not on 'community' Oct 19 13:41:23 hrw: :| Oct 19 13:42:13 goo morning Oct 19 13:42:30 * mgedmin is trying to figure out what's special about the +/- keys Oct 19 13:42:57 hm is there pipe symbol reachable via the keyboard? Oct 19 13:43:01 they Oct 19 13:43:14 woglinde: on tablets? Oct 19 13:43:31 woglinde: on n810 I had that as Shift+space iirc Oct 19 13:44:38 woglinde: it's reachable from the fn+ctrl popup Oct 19 13:45:23 mgedmin okay so only softkey again Oct 19 13:45:37 lack of ~ on hardware kb irritates me more Oct 19 13:45:44 I need it for xterm-y things Oct 19 13:45:52 now I have to press fn+ctrl+dead_tilde+space Oct 19 13:46:11 where dead_tilde is a softkey Oct 19 13:46:17 mgedmin: or create proper kb layout instead of maemo one Oct 19 13:46:26 mgedmin maybee it depends on localized keyboards Oct 19 13:46:29 on my todo list, hrw Oct 19 13:46:30 n810 keyboard layouts were also crappy Oct 19 13:46:47 I kinda liked the n810, except it was impossible to type [/] Oct 19 13:46:54 everyone loves to gripe about keylayouts Oct 19 13:47:02 fwiw, i too get annoyed by ~ Oct 19 13:47:26 for typing actual English text the n900 kb is sweeeet Oct 19 13:47:42 mgedmin: um Oct 19 13:47:53 i find my hands shift one letter horizontally :( Oct 19 13:48:01 yeah, I had that too :) Oct 19 13:48:11 fingers too used to the n810 I guess Oct 19 13:48:46 * timeless_mbp shrugs Oct 19 13:48:53 i never really adapted to the n810 keyboard Oct 19 13:50:30 is there any repo for the n900 to install the sdk natively? Oct 19 13:50:48 just need gcc and -dev packages Oct 19 13:50:51 gdb and so on.. Oct 19 13:50:57 pancake: i suspect the rootstrap may be usable as a chroot Oct 19 13:51:51 any direct url to download it? Oct 19 13:52:53 who has access to change a feed address for planet.maemo.org, its has the wrong one for me now :( Oct 19 13:53:06 file a bug ;-) Oct 19 13:53:07 JamieBennett: me Oct 19 13:53:21 JamieBennett: What is the correct one? Oct 19 13:53:47 pancake: http://repository.maemo.org/stable Oct 19 13:54:01 * JamieBennett goes looking Oct 19 13:54:30 +OK Oct 19 13:58:15 damn you wordpress, how do you export just a tag (or category)? Oct 19 13:59:57 21 Oct 19 14:00:00 ah found it Oct 19 14:01:09 X-Fade: do you have the feedburner url for my feed? http://feeds.feedburner.com/linuxuk-maemo Oct 19 14:01:33 strange things here - n810 now also inreboot loop Oct 19 14:01:55 JamieBennett: http://feeds.feedburner.com/LinuxUk-Maemo Oct 19 14:02:05 cool, the problem was my end then, thanks Oct 19 14:03:24 pancake: just be careful and don't try apt-get dist-upgrades with the SDK repo enabled Oct 19 14:03:51 mgedmin: i will try to use it in a chroot Oct 19 14:03:53 mgedmin: Have you had a chance to try switching networks with the ip applet? Oct 19 14:03:54 how do I use xprop to *set* window properties? I always get "unsupported conversion" Oct 19 14:03:58 to not interfer the system fs Oct 19 14:04:03 fiferboy: yep, works fine Oct 19 14:04:18 mgedmin: Great. It works fine for me too, and non-cellular networks Oct 19 14:04:52 * mgedmin finds an answer to his xprop question: http://fasmz.org/~pterjan/blog/?date=20081113 Oct 19 14:08:25 haaaack! xprop -id $window_id -f _HILDON_ZOOM_KEY_ATOM 32a -set _HILDON_ZOOM_KEY_ATOM 1 and my fbreader now gets volume key events Oct 19 14:09:36 so one week after 300 prototypes lent out at summit. what is the bugreport score? Oct 19 14:10:16 aight im makin it a threead Oct 19 14:10:37 is there a way to bind Fn+Up to make it generate the '|' character? (n810/n900) Oct 19 14:11:16 mgedmin: thanks :) it worked Oct 19 14:11:20 http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Porting_Software/Porting_Existing_GTK%2B_Application_to_Maemo_5#Remapping_volume_keys is a scary url Oct 19 14:18:19 mgedmin: Dirty hacker, indeed Oct 19 14:18:44 the real problem of course is that they do not make it easier for us Oct 19 14:19:07 pupnik: Dunno abou tthe others, but I pretty much carpet -bombed bugzilla. Ask andre, he isn't happy =) Oct 19 14:19:10 who are "they"? Oct 19 14:19:24 mgedmin: Maemo Devices platform team. Oct 19 14:19:33 heh. well, it's not that I want to be happy all the time :) Oct 19 14:19:43 mgedmin: Alternatively, it may be the hildon desktop team Oct 19 14:19:44 it's more that i can do more if i get good, exact bug reports :) Oct 19 14:19:45 step 1: distribute 300 devices to people so they could provide feedback. step 2: 300 people flood bugzilla. step 3: ??? Oct 19 14:19:56 profi! Oct 19 14:19:56 step 3: see andre__ trying to handle it Oct 19 14:19:59 underpants Oct 19 14:20:14 Nokia hit squad Oct 19 14:20:20 Do I see suicide at step 4? Oct 19 14:20:29 RST38h, no, more like quitting the job :-P Oct 19 14:20:55 rst, don't give him any ideas! Oct 19 14:20:56 andre: That would be considered suicide by the Maemo community =) Oct 19 14:21:11 i'm masochistic to a certain level, but not in a physically sense ;-) Oct 19 14:21:19 we need a bugmaster, and we'll never find anybody else stupi^H^H^H^H^H willing to take the job! Oct 19 14:21:41 finally a sentence i can come up with when renegotiating the money :) Oct 19 14:21:45 https://bugs.maemo.org/buglist.cgi?query_format=advanced&short_desc_type=notregexp&short_desc=eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee&target_milestone=Fremantle&target_milestone=5.0-alpha-pre2&target_milestone=5.0-alpha&target_milestone=5.0-beta&target_milestone=5.0-beta2&target_milestone=5.0-final&long_desc_type=substring&long_desc=&bug_file_loc_type=allwordssubstr&bug_file_loc=&status_whiteboard_type=allwordssubstr&status_whiteboard=&keywords_type=allwords&ke Oct 19 14:21:46 andre__: Yeah, you can't leave those Nokians without a messenger; they'll want to commit suicide everytime! Oct 19 14:21:52 thot it was sshorter Oct 19 14:21:54 sorry Oct 19 14:22:09 clipped at &ke Oct 19 14:22:41 i trying to cme up with a bugs.maemo.org search for all n900 releated bugs created since oct 12 Oct 19 14:23:14 so i heard that the ovi maps sucks on the n900 Oct 19 14:23:15 is it true? Oct 19 14:23:17 http://ln-s.net/4Q5i Oct 19 14:23:24 your query also covers those tickets updated (not: filed) since oct12 Oct 19 14:23:24 i do not know Oct 19 14:23:30 Ceron^, yes Oct 19 14:23:41 Ceron^: I wouldn't call it speedy, not by a long shot... Oct 19 14:23:43 Ceron^: it both sucks and is kinda nice Oct 19 14:23:50 the loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong startup time sucks Oct 19 14:23:51 what does that meen? Oct 19 14:23:57 isee Oct 19 14:24:00 lack of ability to work offline sanely sucks Oct 19 14:24:07 having a usable world map out of the box kinda rules Oct 19 14:24:08 are there alternative gps software for the n900? Oct 19 14:24:29 except for the maemo mapper Oct 19 14:24:38 searching for "chinese restaurant" in gothenburg, sweden gives me 15 hits in united arab emirates 4000 km away, which is fun, but not useful Oct 19 14:24:45 i am sorry to ask, but why am i gettin zarro bugs?http://ln-s.net/4Q5i Oct 19 14:24:48 oops Oct 19 14:24:58 has maemo-mapper been ported yet? Oct 19 14:25:20 * RST38h finds it strange there werent any hits in china Oct 19 14:25:44 not yet and the author has not spoken for a long time Oct 19 14:25:54 are there other gps maps for n900 than maemomapper + ovi maps Oct 19 14:26:31 the silence suggests to a no :\ Oct 19 14:26:36 Oh, niiice Oct 19 14:26:52 http://www.cio.com.au/article/320807/open_source_identity_pulseaudio_creator_lennart_poettering Oct 19 14:27:00 enjoy Oct 19 14:27:32 * mgedmin is trying to learn how to use ovi.com for publishing screenshots of maemo apps Oct 19 14:27:46 Ceron^: OSM2Go, NavIt, ... Oct 19 14:27:48 so uploading is easy; but what's the URL of the thing I just uploaded? Oct 19 14:27:57 osm2go is not really a gps map app Oct 19 14:27:57 mgedmin: sure you are not masochistic? Oct 19 14:28:12 navit on n900? Oct 19 14:28:17 where? Oct 19 14:28:37 RST38h lennart didnt setup unit test and didnt test compiling with other libc's Oct 19 14:28:47 so, test: can you people access this picture, or does it as for login: http://share.ovi.com/media/mgedmin.mymedia/mgedmin.10001?sort=0 ? Oct 19 14:28:48 we alwaya have to patch it Oct 19 14:28:53 also, have you seen this facebook widget bug? Oct 19 14:29:05 woglinde: TORCH HIM! Oct 19 14:29:09 must sign in Oct 19 14:29:24 crap :( Oct 19 14:29:26 Frankly, I do not see the differewnce between lennart and the last two-three guys Oct 19 14:29:28 rst I know he is somewhere around me in a circle of 30 km Oct 19 14:29:42 Every single one of them starts with the same goals, creates another monstrosity, then quits Oct 19 14:30:09 woglinde: Just imagine: if you had a relatively small nuclear weapon, you wouldn't even have to drive... Oct 19 14:31:32 RST38h: I've met Lennart. I don't think he's going to quit. Oct 19 14:32:00 derf: He will, give him 2-3 years Oct 19 14:32:11 He's already been doing this for 2-3 years. Oct 19 14:32:24 I first met him in early 2007. Oct 19 14:32:30 *another* 2-3 years, I mean... Oct 19 14:32:58 rst he will not quit Oct 19 14:33:00 If he doesn't though, it will be refreshing news Oct 19 14:33:08 and there are some more people Oct 19 14:33:51 * RST38h now remembers OSS audio, Arts, ESD, ALSA... Oct 19 14:34:13 Forgot anything? Oct 19 14:34:34 pulseaudio Oct 19 14:34:45 that audio-over-x solution Oct 19 14:34:47 netaudio? Oct 19 14:34:51 * SpeedEvil forgets the name. Oct 19 14:34:57 ot why laptops have this efi mode is it same than intel mac's has? is it any use to set it on if boot linux? Oct 19 14:35:04 jack Oct 19 14:35:09 netaudio was done by Sun right? for their thin computers? Oct 19 14:35:18 RST38h: possibly - I'm unsure Oct 19 14:35:26 there: http://share.ovi.com/media/mgedmin.N900screenshots/mgedmin.10001 Oct 19 14:35:28 should be public now Oct 19 14:35:30 ovi sucks Oct 19 14:35:41 you really had to try it to find that out? Oct 19 14:35:42 lennart is amazing Oct 19 14:36:32 so, what's wrong with the user interface here: http://share.ovi.com/media/mgedmin.N900screenshots/mgedmin.10002 ? Oct 19 14:36:41 icon on the ok button Oct 19 14:36:46 tigert is definitely amazing, dunno about lennart Oct 19 14:36:47 alignment of the text inside the ok button Oct 19 14:36:54 lowercase title Oct 19 14:36:56 anything else? Oct 19 14:36:57 spacing? Oct 19 14:37:06 I'm using the Maemo SDK 5. I did "apt-get update", then tried "apt-get build-dep gstreamer0.10". This results in "E: Build-Depends-Indep dependency for gstreamer0.10 cannot be satisfied because the package docbook-utils cannot be found". Did anyone ever had this problem? Oct 19 14:37:16 maybe I should just find a link to the maemo 5 hig and put it in the bug Oct 19 14:37:58 mihu: I can confirm Oct 19 14:38:58 mgedmin: And, how did you fix it? :-) Oct 19 14:39:05 I didn't Oct 19 14:39:33 *g* Oct 19 14:39:46 compile docbook-utils package from lenny or etch Oct 19 14:39:54 install it manually via dokg Oct 19 14:39:58 args dpkg Oct 19 14:40:06 thats what I would try Oct 19 14:43:00 woglinde: That will probably do the trick, but of course the question is where the official docbook-utils should usually comes from. Oct 19 14:50:21 * mgedmin *loves* the Fremantle Master Layout Guide Oct 19 14:50:37 VDVsx, penguinbait (& rest of council): some mail for you Oct 19 14:51:00 k Oct 19 14:51:56 nothing yet? Oct 19 14:52:09 will come, i hope :P Oct 19 14:52:13 faster than a speeding email Oct 19 14:52:38 mgedmin, where Oct 19 14:52:40 more powerful than a n810 Oct 19 14:52:55 lcuk: huh? Oct 19 14:53:00 able to get wifi in tall buildings Oct 19 14:53:29 * mgedmin *loves* the Fremantle Master Layout Guide Oct 19 14:53:39 I love it right here, in my chair Oct 19 14:53:56 or do you want a url? Oct 19 14:53:57 http://www.forum.nokia.com/info/sw.nokia.com/id/e778ba1f-2507-4672-be45-798359a3aea7/Fremantle_Master_Layout_Guide.html Oct 19 14:54:13 I feel like I am gonna url Oct 19 14:54:32 * lcuk gets penguinbait a bucket Oct 19 14:54:56 heh Oct 19 14:55:08 fish bucket? Oct 19 14:55:31 * lcuk puts penguinbait in the bucket and walks to the enclosure Oct 19 14:55:33 url url url? Oct 19 14:55:33 * tigert heads to wrench store for tools that dont break Oct 19 14:55:35 hmm. what to smoke to understand the difference between "Day view" and "Agenda view" in calendar? Oct 19 14:55:47 andre__: fish Oct 19 14:55:52 try last year's wall calendars Oct 19 14:55:54 uhm. Oct 19 14:56:08 andre, you were supposed to figure that out in amsterdam Oct 19 14:56:10 andre__: Agenda view shows you several days Oct 19 14:56:11 ground with a toadstool powder of course Oct 19 14:56:37 penguinbait, i was too busy with cigarette breaks, didn't even attend my own talk Oct 19 14:56:39 * mgedmin is annoyed by lack of smooth scrolling in calendar month view Oct 19 14:56:45 * Jaffa too Oct 19 14:56:46 Jaffa, thanks. need more test calendars it seems Oct 19 14:57:19 hmm. where I can edit my maemo profile? on maemo.org it only shows, on talk.maemo.org I cannot edit website Oct 19 14:57:35 try kinetic scrolling by pressing near the top/bottom and dragging -> you're unexpectedly jumped to a different month without an indication which, and end up confused Oct 19 14:58:04 hrw: maemo.org: login, view profile, use the floaty menu bar thingy-wingy and select page -> edit Oct 19 14:58:09 or something complicated like that Oct 19 14:58:09 * RST38h considers filing bug trackers about package voting interface Oct 19 14:58:11 ty for lik Oct 19 14:58:22 found Oct 19 14:58:23 mgedmin: thx Oct 19 14:58:51 hrw, http://maemo.org/profile/edit/ Oct 19 14:58:56 ah, k Oct 19 14:59:42 wow, 10 pixels per mm Oct 19 15:02:12 * mgedmin wonders if he can add hildon api reference to devhelp Oct 19 15:03:01 mgedmin, if it had smooth scrolling how would it work with the background pictures Oct 19 15:03:10 its not like mine where theres nice easy background Oct 19 15:03:12 what background pictures? Oct 19 15:03:24 on the normal m5 calendar Oct 19 15:03:29 each month has a picture Oct 19 15:03:50 oh, I hadn't noticed Oct 19 15:04:40 dunno, scroll the translucent calendar kinetically and cross-fade the right background picture Oct 19 15:05:01 or at least jump to the other month when I release my finger, not while I'm holding it Oct 19 15:05:10 um, actually it already does that Oct 19 15:05:20 no, it doesn't Oct 19 15:05:34 it jumps when I start dragging Oct 19 15:05:37 that makes no sense at all Oct 19 15:05:55 hm, maybe it does Oct 19 15:05:57 one of the views can be scrolled by grabbing the left hand side week view Oct 19 15:06:05 a completely different ui paradigm from the rest Oct 19 15:06:13 * lcuk nods Oct 19 15:06:18 feels like mouse gestures Oct 19 15:06:23 maybe it is Oct 19 15:06:36 and gestures lead to the dark side Oct 19 15:06:42 They really do. Oct 19 15:06:56 "calendaring software sucks" is a law of sw engineering Oct 19 15:07:14 * lcuk has the calendar he always wanted Oct 19 15:07:42 now i just need to learn how to make a recess into the wall, buy a touchscreen tablet, install software, learn how to sync properly Oct 19 15:07:46 * mgedmin wants to know how hildon_note_new_confirmation_add_buttons knows how many extra buttons the user supplied -- this is C! varargs have no clue how many args there were Oct 19 15:07:47 and i can stop worrying Oct 19 15:07:58 simple! Oct 19 15:08:14 mgedmin: NULL terminated list? Oct 19 15:08:19 or is there a bug in this example: http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Graphical_UI_Tutorial/Controls#Confirmation_Notes Oct 19 15:08:30 somebody omitted the NULL? Oct 19 15:08:40 I don't know. Oct 19 15:08:44 that looks like a bug Oct 19 15:08:46 hildon_note_new_confirmation_add_buttons is actually a preprocessor macro that appends a , NULL at the end? Oct 19 15:08:54 mgedmin, do you think special apps like camera should break UI guidelinnes if needed? Oct 19 15:08:56 that would be way too hacky Oct 19 15:09:04 pupnik: if they do it with style Oct 19 15:09:06 calendar doesn't Oct 19 15:09:14 calendar tries and fails Oct 19 15:09:24 ... : arguments pairs for new buttons(label and return value). Terminate the list with NULL value. Oct 19 15:09:26 camera adjustments obscure screen conten / preview Oct 19 15:09:29 http://maemo.org/api_refs/4.0/hildon/HildonNote.html#hildon-note-new-confirmation-add-buttons Oct 19 15:09:39 another style-offending apps are pdf reader and notes (really? maemo 4 style scroll bar?) Oct 19 15:09:49 mgedmin: "dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot" works in the package I try to recompile, even when "apt-get build-dep" failed before. Of course, after I manually installed all the really necessary packages like flex, lsb-release etc. Oct 19 15:09:49 mmmm Oct 19 15:09:56 "Terminate the list with NULL value." Oct 19 15:10:00 but notes is necessarily in edit mode mgedmin Oct 19 15:10:03 you need a scrollbar if you are to allow selection and scorlling Oct 19 15:10:04 lcuk: you were quoting what? Oct 19 15:10:08 So yeah, the example is likely wrong. Oct 19 15:10:13 we have to split between twomodes, pan and hilight Oct 19 15:10:14 And "works" by pure luck. Oct 19 15:10:22 derf, its not pure luck Oct 19 15:10:24 Because 0 is a pretty common thing to accidentally have on the stack. Oct 19 15:10:31 my memory is initialized to NULL before i start ;) :D Oct 19 15:10:41 ah, interleaved irc conversations are confusing Oct 19 15:10:43 I see the link now Oct 19 15:11:02 * mgedmin enables wiki powers and EDITS Oct 19 15:11:11 i uploaded part of my connsciousness to the cloud. the real pupnik is raking leaves Oct 19 15:11:29 aieee! are swarming me! Oct 19 15:11:32 mgedmin, if you use kinetics (in the current gtk implementation) you can scroll, you cannot scroll OR select Oct 19 15:11:48 lcuk: browser solved that Oct 19 15:11:49 I want my cake and eat it too! Oct 19 15:11:57 no it didnt Oct 19 15:12:26 thats a non trivial workaround that a user of notes would not expect Oct 19 15:12:36 a scrollbar in the right environment is not wrong Oct 19 15:12:51 hmm Oct 19 15:13:04 could've used a thumb scrollbar at least Oct 19 15:13:09 on a browser, selection is not the normal operation Oct 19 15:13:23 in a text editor, its vital Oct 19 15:13:47 I can't agree with you Oct 19 15:14:09 I kinda like how xterm did it: toolbar button toggles scrolling/selection Oct 19 15:14:44 mgedmin: PDF Reader does not seem to have changed since Maemo4 Oct 19 15:14:50 They probably just haven't got to it Oct 19 15:15:22 yeah, peter hasn't recalled them from their summer vacations early enough Oct 19 15:15:28 poor developers ... Oct 19 15:16:56 i like xterms solution also mgedmin Oct 19 15:17:13 wish it were standard, actually Oct 19 15:17:35 "we can handle two states| Oct 19 15:17:58 "simplify as much as posible, but no further| Oct 19 15:18:35 I, for one, scroll much more than I select Oct 19 15:19:16 can we has transparent buttons and scrolbars in theme or app? Oct 19 15:22:55 btw when I upgraded personal-ip-address to latest version, my statusbar applets crashed Oct 19 15:23:01 coincidence? Oct 19 15:25:44 mgedmin: Updated to 0.3-4? Oct 19 15:26:05 yes Oct 19 15:26:07 I don't think there is any way for a desktop widget to crash statusbar widgets Oct 19 15:26:13 exactly Oct 19 15:26:18 the desktop itself didn't crash Oct 19 15:26:37 What happens when the statusbar crashes? Oct 19 15:26:46 it reloads and you see icons reappearing one by one Oct 19 15:26:46 statusbar shouldn't crash when widgets crash o_ Oct 19 15:26:48 except for custom ones Oct 19 15:26:52 custom plugins get disabled Oct 19 15:26:52 There is no way to reload statusbar applets, that I know of Oct 19 15:26:55 err, desktop widgets Oct 19 15:27:06 rebooting restores the custom statusbar plugins Oct 19 15:27:20 fiferboy_: Sure there is: killall hildon-status-menu Oct 19 15:27:20 I think it may have been a bug in, e.g., load-applet that was triggered somehow Oct 19 15:27:25 mgedmin: What custom statusbar plugins do you have installed? Oct 19 15:27:38 qwerty12_N810: That automatically restarts it as well? Oct 19 15:27:43 dunno how -- high system load? out of disk space? rebuilding gtk icon cache? no clue Oct 19 15:28:01 I have three: brightness, load-applet, connectity-switcher Oct 19 15:28:12 should nuke the last one, it's useless Oct 19 15:28:14 fiferboy_: yes Oct 19 15:28:29 I have brightness and load-applet and never seen a statusbar crash Oct 19 15:28:33 qwerty12_N810: Good to know Oct 19 15:29:05 thanks, qwerty, killall hildonj-status-menu resurrected load-applet Oct 19 15:29:11 now I can (try to) take screenshots Oct 19 15:29:41 who can tell me how to optify a python program? Oct 19 15:29:59 load-applet please flash the blue LED when you take a screenshot! Oct 19 15:30:10 lack of feedback is ... is ... leaves me speechless Oct 19 15:30:18 i have some text files (dictionaries) that i want to store under /opt/maemo/usr/share/dict Oct 19 15:30:51 mgedmin, it should display some ui on the screen before it starts "Please wait, capturing screenshot" Oct 19 15:30:56 nnod did you already tried to use the optifier? Oct 19 15:31:10 lcuk: it says to press the camera key within the next 20 seconds to actually take a screenshot Oct 19 15:31:15 so I press the camera key Oct 19 15:31:18 then nothing appears to happen Oct 19 15:31:39 woglinde: i figured it would be simpler just to change the installation script myself, since it's a very simple setup.py already Oct 19 15:31:39 Ctrl-Shift-P shortcut is more annoying in this regard Oct 19 15:31:42 on n900 there is a keypress combo to take a screenshot anytime Oct 19 15:31:50 except that the camera app starts up and asks me to remove the lens cover Oct 19 15:32:08 mgedmin: Ah, you don't need to fully press it in Oct 19 15:32:33 qwerty12_N810: seconded about ctrl+shift+p Oct 19 15:32:58 I'm trying to take a screenshot of a theme bug in a popup menu Oct 19 15:33:05 no luck whatsoever Oct 19 15:33:14 otoh maybe the screenshot is there but tracker sucks and hides it from me Oct 19 15:33:22 you can get paranoid really fast this way Oct 19 15:34:38 bloody hell, it's both: tracker is hiding images from me AND the screenshot isn't there Oct 19 15:34:47 does the pic viewer display images from the tracker cache, or from a filesystem scan? Oct 19 15:35:25 a camera is more reliable Oct 19 15:35:28 http://mg.pov.lt/chinese-food-4000km-away.png Oct 19 15:35:40 is what I was talking about: ovi maps suggesting pois in the emirates Oct 19 15:35:55 hm Oct 19 15:36:11 cmon, just a short hike :) Oct 19 15:36:39 maybe a swim Oct 19 15:36:43 Yeah, mgedmin, Ovi Maps is right: Everyone has a private plane Oct 19 15:36:49 at least you wouldv worked up an appetite Oct 19 15:37:03 * lcuk gets back to packaging Oct 19 15:37:05 I'll even give you some floaties to use Oct 19 15:37:15 yay load-applet screencast recorded a blank screen plus background audio Oct 19 15:37:29 *headdesk* Oct 19 15:37:52 yerga has a post on Talk, somewhere, on how to get it working Oct 19 15:38:02 ahhh but was it background audio from a chinese restaurant 4000km away? Oct 19 15:38:43 Its a loud restaurant Oct 19 15:41:18 hm, if apt says libncurses5-dev is already installed in my sbox, why does kernel's make menuconfig complain about undefined references to waddch et al? Oct 19 15:41:44 lardman, stupid, stupid, stupid. Oct 19 15:42:20 mgedmin: Google "fanoush kconfig" and the first result has a fix, by fanoush Oct 19 15:42:23 andre__, sorry, my steps get a little imprecise when filing from a tablet. ;) Oct 19 15:43:02 qwerty12_N810: the first hit is http://fanoush.wz.cz/maemo/kernel-2.6.27-20084805r03-20090202r03.diff Oct 19 15:43:33 GeneralAntilles, hehe Oct 19 15:43:57 but I found http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=124726&postcount=8 Oct 19 15:44:18 mgedmin: I get a Talk forum page. But no matter, I can be arsed to open the browser: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=14666 Oct 19 15:44:27 That's the one Oct 19 15:44:58 Oh, by the way, iGo chargers will charge the N900 fine with tip A97. Oct 19 15:45:09 is http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Kernel_and_Debugging_Guide/Maemo_Kernel_Guide serious about EXTRAVERSION=-maemo2 ? Oct 19 15:45:59 moto has failed at the industrial design, time to show something from Nokia :) Oct 19 15:48:32 Mr. Mark Delaney - your turn :) Oct 19 15:48:34 n900 kernel doesnt supports unionfs? Oct 19 15:48:50 * mgedmin can hear hrw's accent in his head when reading his blog posts Oct 19 15:49:45 mgedmin: ;D Oct 19 15:51:41 hrw, nice to see you around again, by the way. ;) Oct 19 15:51:56 *whew*, I think it's the last time I'll be reading the various maemo bug jars Oct 19 15:52:02 I've been doing that since this *morning* Oct 19 15:52:07 granted, in the background, but still Oct 19 15:53:06 ouch, somebody left his n900 in the back of a taxi in Amsterdam :( Oct 19 15:53:27 time to start work on a lojack app Oct 19 15:53:38 I imagine the person who found it will be in cahoots... Oct 19 15:54:24 is there anybody that know how to trigger the "expose" like effect on Maemo5 (is it a dbus call or a gtk method to call?) Oct 19 15:54:26 doesnt nokia already have a network ping whenever someone tries to use gps (supl) does this per chance send uid? Oct 19 15:54:40 Eurgh, $370 for USA discount. Oct 19 15:55:03 better than $448, isn't it? Oct 19 15:55:20 mgedmin, better, but it's not much better than ~$550. Oct 19 15:55:42 its ~$180 better by my calculator Oct 19 15:56:13 discount? as in the t-mo subsidies that are to come? Oct 19 15:56:13 370$? not bad Oct 19 15:56:14 GeneralAntilles: so someone was complaining about font layout in MicroB when zooming Oct 19 15:56:24 timeless_mbp, that'd be me. ;) Oct 19 15:56:31 the explanation for that is that Gecko doesn't reflow for zooming Oct 19 15:56:43 and tries to match font sizing without blowing away box layout Oct 19 15:56:49 timeless_mbp, it's basically made zooming a non-feature for me. Oct 19 15:57:06 so essentially the layout of the individual characters derives from the placement at the prezoomed page Oct 19 15:57:19 if you install fennec, you should experience the same behavior Oct 19 15:57:26 Any plans to fix it? Oct 19 15:57:29 that's a vague overview of the technical problem Oct 19 15:57:35 GeneralAntilles: do you know about the ctrl+shift+i hidden key? Oct 19 15:57:40 fixing it would be done on the mozilla side Oct 19 15:57:50 It's usability-killing behavior, honestly. Oct 19 15:57:54 i'll try to poke someone about it this week, but i really don't have an answer Oct 19 15:58:22 it's unlikely to make pr1.2 (1.1 doesn't get browser fixes in general, and 1.2 is probably closing soon) Oct 19 15:58:25 So, upstream will fix it in, maybe, a couple months, then Nokia wont ship the updated Gecko until Harmattan, right? :) Oct 19 15:58:34 since it requires someone to fix it Oct 19 15:58:42 roughly :) Oct 19 15:58:47 timeless_mbp: pong Oct 19 15:58:47 Idoicy. Oct 19 15:58:54 * timeless_mbp shrugs Oct 19 15:59:03 you want gecko to reflow the page when you zoom, like the old version used to? Oct 19 15:59:11 This is one of those bugs that will drive away every possible iPhone convert from the platform. Oct 19 15:59:12 did you ever actually try to use that? Oct 19 15:59:17 it doesn't work *at all* Oct 19 15:59:40 ali1234: fwiw, what i want is to be able to tell the browser how wide it should tell the web page the screen is Oct 19 15:59:51 so that i can influence how the page tries to lay out its content :) Oct 19 15:59:57 but sadly, trying to expose a ui for that is hard Oct 19 16:00:06 unless it's a fixed width page, like *all* websites are Oct 19 16:00:06 i need to try to write a fennec addon for it to demo Oct 19 16:00:27 GeneralAntilles: thx, nice to be remembered Oct 19 16:04:21 is there any maemo development channel? Oct 19 16:04:33 darktears: there's this channel, and there's #mer Oct 19 16:04:37 on irc? no Oct 19 16:04:37 those are about it Oct 19 16:04:38 darktears: You're in it! Oct 19 16:04:45 msg wazd you around Oct 19 16:04:57 * timeless_mbp sighs Oct 19 16:04:58 stuppid / Oct 19 16:04:59 grr what do I need to enable in kernel .config to get iptables_nat.ko? Oct 19 16:05:04 * timeless_mbp figures out bug source Oct 19 16:05:34 I do not develop for maemo, I complain about it, report bugs and try to be enough annoying to be remembered Oct 19 16:05:36 * timeless_mbp needs to try to figure out how to do asynchronous ui work Oct 19 16:05:48 AndrewFBlack2: pong :) Oct 19 16:06:12 wazd, wasn't it you who made the image tha showed all the devices Mer will run on? Oct 19 16:06:39 hi all, i created a kernel module, is there any nice way to package it? Oct 19 16:07:10 mgedmin: iptables = netfilter Oct 19 16:07:21 so? Oct 19 16:07:31 AndrewFBlack2: yep Oct 19 16:07:33 * ShadowJK likes to set minimum font size to something readable in teh first place :D Oct 19 16:07:36 like 7pt Oct 19 16:07:40 there's no NF_NAT in .config, I must first enable some prerequisite Oct 19 16:07:44 does NAT depend on CONNTRACK? Oct 19 16:07:52 almost certainly Oct 19 16:08:03 can you send it to me I want to do a print out of it at FLS Oct 19 16:08:08 guysoft42: I'm about to have the same question, assuming I can manage to compile the darn module Oct 19 16:08:22 mgedmin, i just did that phase, i can help you :) Oct 19 16:08:31 what module did you build? Oct 19 16:08:32 mgedmin, but now i dono how to distrubute it Oct 19 16:08:35 cac_acm Oct 19 16:08:39 mgedmin, ^ Oct 19 16:08:47 scp *.ko my-n900: ;) Oct 19 16:09:33 mgedmin, ah, i am on Nokia N810 Oct 19 16:09:33 mgedmin: there is a NF_NAT config Oct 19 16:10:06 mgedmin: http://pastebin.com/m32d3d89f Oct 19 16:11:08 "IPv4 connection tracking support (required for NAT)" Oct 19 16:13:16 so thats it, everyone here will get a nokia N900. and i will be all alone and unsupported... Oct 19 16:13:36 also, why all the docs in mamo.org are not working?: http://maemo.org/development/documentation/how-tos/4-0-x/creating_a_debian_package/ Oct 19 16:13:52 nice, optify worked for my python package Oct 19 16:13:56 here, pick a doc, any doc, they all are broken: http://search.maemo.org/search?q=kernel+module+deb&btnG=Search&site=maemo-org&client=maemo-org&proxystylesheet=maemo-org&output=xml_no_dtd Oct 19 16:15:48 wikis rule Oct 19 16:16:29 I really, really, really, hate trying to get things fixed this late in the development cycle. Oct 19 16:16:53 um, is there an answer to this guy?: http://search.maemo.org/search?q=cache:yp_A9l2Hez4J:maemo.org/community/maemo-developers/read/21053524885f11dd98821f158e3a34f834f8.html+kernel+module+deb+%28site%3Agarage.maemo.org+|+site%3Adownloads.maemo.org+|+site%3Amaemo.org+|+site%3Awiki.maemo.org+|+site%3Abugs.maemo.org+|+site%3Arepository.maemo.org+|+site%3Astage.maemo.org+|+site%3Alists.maemo.org+%29&access=p&output=xml_no_dtd&site=maemo-o Oct 19 16:16:53 rg&ie=UTF-8&client=maemo-org&proxystylesheet=maemo-org&oe=ISO-8859-1 , Automatic Linux Kernel Module Loading on ITOS2008 Oct 19 16:17:07 that's not a clickable link Oct 19 16:17:16 *blink* Oct 19 16:17:17 Every time I start filing issues I run into a wall because Nokia has made all of these decisions 6, 8, 12 months ago and they're thoroughly entrenched in the conclusions they came to now. Oct 19 16:17:26 GeneralAntilles: yup Oct 19 16:17:29 So there's basically no chance of getting anything fixed or improved. Oct 19 16:17:30 what's your favourite tinyurl clone? Oct 19 16:17:50 No coral cache of that page either that you're looking for Oct 19 16:17:50 Logic and reason seem mostly to have abandoned them now. Oct 19 16:17:55 GeneralAntilles: there's a slim chance they will consider your input behind closed doors and implement it in Maemo x+1 Oct 19 16:18:13 mgedmin, right. Oct 19 16:18:14 GeneralAntilles: seems pretty logical to come up with a development plan and stick to it so you can get a release out on time Oct 19 16:18:29 By which point a dozen other changes will have made this one obsolete. Oct 19 16:18:34 seems somewhat illogical to start changing those plans based on a bug report shortly before launch Oct 19 16:18:39 that's a good thing, isn't it? Oct 19 16:18:51 mgedmin, not when those dozen other changes also suck. :( Oct 19 16:19:01 GeneralAntilles: drink more kool-aid! Oct 19 16:19:03 greenfly, my point is that Nokia needs to open up and let us in on the development process. Oct 19 16:19:10 greenfly: However, it'd be entirely logical for them to discuss the problems and issues in public long before they're set in stone. Free consultancy from paid software professional Oct 19 16:19:13 s Oct 19 16:19:16 greenfly, because clearly it's not working as-is. Oct 19 16:19:41 * mgedmin wonders which particular issue GA is talking about now Oct 19 16:19:49 browser zooming, or something new? Oct 19 16:19:51 I think it's still the font zooming one Oct 19 16:20:03 mgedmin, https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5369 Oct 19 16:20:14 which sounded like it was an upstream bug Oct 19 16:20:20 ah, yes Oct 19 16:20:24 that irritated me too Oct 19 16:20:34 jrocha's response to the key rebinding issue on -developers points to entrenchment, too. Oct 19 16:20:35 then I convinced myself that it's a reasonable design decision Oct 19 16:20:58 key rebinding: I read the responses as people trying to be helpful Oct 19 16:21:16 seems like a reasonable default to me as well Oct 19 16:21:21 "I don't know how to solve the issue the way you want, but maybe you weren't aware of that other little possibility, and now knowing it maybe makes your life a bit easier?" Oct 19 16:21:26 mgedmin, mostly I saw "I can't imagine any reason anybody would even need to input text any differently than we've designed" Oct 19 16:21:51 human communication is a tricky and unsolved problem Oct 19 16:21:58 ie. if I see autocompleted text and hit bksp I'd assume it would get rid of that text first, then I'd hit it again to start at my text Oct 19 16:22:15 in either case, I don't see how it would rate as "showstopper" Oct 19 16:22:23 GeneralAntilles: Guess what. Oct 19 16:22:33 greenfly, well, once again, I've turned off autocomplete because it makes text entry more difficult. Oct 19 16:22:33 seems more like a matter of preference Oct 19 16:22:37 has there been any word of a n900 ship date in the states? Oct 19 16:22:39 ooh, that bug has new flamey comments I haven't seen before Oct 19 16:22:41 Rather than making things easier like it should. Oct 19 16:23:00 GA, what's your opinion on autocapitalization? Oct 19 16:23:00 zerojay, what? Oct 19 16:23:07 autocomplete will *always* make text entry more difficult in the case where it doesn't correctly guess what you are typing Oct 19 16:23:08 GeneralAntilles: Something's gone wrong with my device discount. lol Oct 19 16:23:14 I never know if hitting shift will make the next letter uppercase or lowercase Oct 19 16:23:24 mgedmin, also useless, since it's completely unpredictable. Oct 19 16:23:26 that's why i turned it off and would do so regardless of this stupid backspace thing Oct 19 16:23:31 there's no visual indication and the software (esp 3rd party) is inconsistent whether it enable sautocaps or not Oct 19 16:23:42 autocomplete I should be able to just ignore unless it's actually making my life easier. Oct 19 16:23:45 i turned off auto capitalise too Oct 19 16:23:47 guysoft42: http://74.125.113.132/search?q=cache:s7ofFA6PM1cJ:maemo.org/development/documentation/manuals/4-0-x/creating_a_debian_package/+4+creating+a+debian+package+site:maemo.org&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us Oct 19 16:23:56 Which is why backspace should delete what I'm typing and not the autocomplete suggestion. Oct 19 16:24:04 zerojay, I would never have guessed! Oct 19 16:24:07 yes, i think you're right Oct 19 16:24:08 zerojay, what happened? Oct 19 16:24:31 but i'd still turn it off even if it worked like that Oct 19 16:24:34 GeneralAntilles: I just never received the e-mail. And it'll take probably a month before Quim decides to respond to me. Oct 19 16:24:56 absolute, yes, i got that by now. the thing is i need now a way to load the module on-boot Oct 19 16:25:02 zerojay: FWIW, I'm yet to recieve an e-mail, too. Oct 19 16:25:17 GeneralAntilles: You know... going by past standards. Oct 19 16:25:17 BTW I'm +1 for a hidden gconf setting Oct 19 16:25:17 zerojay, lol. Oct 19 16:25:24 mgedmin, sadly those are seemingly no easier to get implemented than real UI settings. Oct 19 16:25:25 Starting to wonder if I was meant to get the discount at all. Oct 19 16:25:28 my bad, i thought you were still struggling to see the missing info... so i dug up a cached version of it for ya Oct 19 16:25:33 nope Oct 19 16:25:50 GeneralAntilles: I'm +100 for an open-source input engine that I or you could tweak to our heart's content Oct 19 16:25:51 well, i got the invitation email at least. Oct 19 16:26:41 Shit, they gave me a device alongside the Fremantle stars even though I'm not a developer... so I gotta assume I SHOULD be getting a discount. Oct 19 16:26:42 insmod: error inserting 'MyDocs/iptable_nat.ko': -1 Invalid module format Oct 19 16:26:42 :/ Oct 19 16:26:53 Makes me wonder if I didn't do enough or whatever Oct 19 16:27:13 maybe they're throttling the emails Oct 19 16:27:23 I got mine at late night, I remember posting here when I got it. Oct 19 16:27:26 zerojay: what's your karma? Oct 19 16:27:29 Yeah, I'd probably wanna choke 'em out too. Oct 19 16:27:35 mgedmin: 800 something. Oct 19 16:27:43 is there any way in maemo5 to programmatically call the task switcher (the expose thingy)? dbus? gtk? Oct 19 16:27:46 seems pretty clear-cut to me Oct 19 16:28:07 * mgedmin has to run Oct 19 16:28:12 darktears: god I hope not Oct 19 16:28:23 okay, that was a bit of an overreaction Oct 19 16:28:42 doing that at user's request is fine, apps doing that without my request would be very obnoxious Oct 19 16:28:48 darktears: There's a d-bus call: google exit_app_view Oct 19 16:30:53 qwerty12_N810: thanks Oct 19 16:31:00 qwerty12_N810: i'll try that Oct 19 16:34:43 interestingly i'm having difficulty even finding an autocomplete box on a desktop machine Oct 19 16:34:51 i'm sure they were all the rage a couple of years ago Oct 19 16:35:44 i'm beginning to think the only sensible thing to do is show a drop down box with suggestions Oct 19 16:37:38 Hi. Anyone here going to the "Off the Record" Ovi event on Monday 26th Oct? Oct 19 16:40:10 andre__, perhaps it's a matter of perception, but I'd call that civil. ;) Oct 19 16:40:17 bye all Oct 19 16:40:41 haha, my office neighbour is yelling really loudly in russian Oct 19 16:40:44 he sounds pissed Oct 19 16:40:46 GeneralAntilles, I don't know. I wouldn't have a problem either, but I'm just afraid that in the long run it's counter-productive... Oct 19 16:40:47 oops, wrong chan Oct 19 16:41:05 andre__, it's a rather severe problem with our current arrangement than I keep running into every time there's a new release. Oct 19 16:41:19 It's getting a bit tiresome after 4 years. :) Oct 19 16:41:27 yes, we're all passionate :) Oct 19 16:42:23 Invoking "vision" isn't a great way to go about convincing me that a particular design decision is a good one. Oct 19 16:43:50 X-Fade, ping Oct 19 16:46:50 what does FKB stand for? Oct 19 16:47:05 Finger keyboard. Oct 19 16:47:44 hmm ok, what is the finger keyboard? Oct 19 16:48:30 I'm guessing its the touch screen keyboard on the N800 Oct 19 16:48:30 http://www.legacyoflies.com/devuploads/general_antilles/maemofingerkeyboard.jpg Oct 19 16:48:51 oh, the on screen keyboard Oct 19 16:49:27 yeah, not having arrow keys on it is a pain in the arse, just like it was on the n800 Oct 19 16:49:28 ~ping Oct 19 16:49:29 ~pong Oct 19 16:49:30 Finger keyboard in Diablo, Virtual keyboard in Fremantle. Oct 19 16:50:02 guys, can you explain me how to add something to kernel parameters in ubuntu? :) Oct 19 16:50:15 wazd_: what version of ubuntu? Oct 19 16:50:32 ali1234: 9.04 Oct 19 16:50:33 and is it the vdso thing? Oct 19 16:50:42 ali1234: yep Oct 19 16:52:17 wazd_: look at /etc/sysctl.d/README Oct 19 16:52:59 basically you make a file /etc/sysctl.d/50-vdso.conf and put the vdso option in it, then run the updater, that should do it Oct 19 16:54:19 whoa, volume keys wswitch between tabs in xchat Oct 19 16:54:48 Yes, I shoved that in the crash-prone version... Oct 19 16:55:33 * lcuk sags Oct 19 16:56:53 quit slouching lcuk Oct 19 16:57:53 im tired, applied for several jobs, fitted a carpet, did hand to hand combat with dpkg and wrestled the loo roll off the cat Oct 19 16:59:31 good luck on the job apps lcuk Oct 19 16:59:37 i have my fingers crossed for you :) Oct 19 16:59:39 qwerty12_N810, hey, do you know how to get a module to load on startup? Oct 19 16:59:53 Nope, never had the need Oct 19 17:00:03 Look at the fuse package in extras, though Oct 19 17:00:10 echo modname >/etc/modules Oct 19 17:00:11 :) i have my fingers and toes crossed too Oct 19 17:00:12 qwerty12_N810, ok Oct 19 17:00:14 hmm, /etc/modules Oct 19 17:00:14 echo modname >/etc/modules Oct 19 17:00:17 yeah i'll cross my toes too Oct 19 17:00:19 eek Oct 19 17:00:20 :D Oct 19 17:00:24 echo modname >>/etc/modules Oct 19 17:00:39 damn, I got segfault again Oct 19 17:00:46 don't overwrite it like in my orig suggestion Oct 19 17:00:47 mgedmin900, hmm, but i would need something that when installing the package wont have the line millons of times in there Oct 19 17:00:49 in SDK Oct 19 17:01:02 hehe, yeah, don't want to forget the second > Oct 19 17:01:13 wazd_: Are you taking car of the mmap_min_address (or whatever it is called) too? Oct 19 17:01:15 enter is too close to the up arrow Oct 19 17:01:36 fiferboy: what? :) Oct 19 17:01:38 oh yeah did i ever introduce you guys to my friend absolute? he's one of my good irc friends from another server and he's a n900 convert Oct 19 17:01:38 guysoft42, most modules get autoloaded Oct 19 17:01:39 soon to be convert Oct 19 17:01:41 fiferboy: /usr/bin/hildon-desktop: Fatal IO error 104 (Connection reset by peer) on X server :2.0. Oct 19 17:01:46 fiferboy: that's what I get Oct 19 17:01:48 bringing in the developers to the community :D Oct 19 17:01:54 mgedmin900, but i need to know where to place it Oct 19 17:02:07 absolute: welcome, have you received your cloak and sacrificial rubber chicken? Oct 19 17:02:07 wazd_: You are in the X86 rootstrap? Oct 19 17:02:11 /lib/modules/kernelversion Oct 19 17:02:19 mgedmin900, theres a place in helsinki that specializes in finger reconstruction, im sure they can make yours a little thinner Oct 19 17:02:20 fiferboy: english please :) Oct 19 17:02:22 not yet :) Oct 19 17:02:32 mgedmin900, ok, if it works from there.. Oct 19 17:02:32 hi absolute \o Oct 19 17:02:33 fiferboy: I run scratchbox in VM ubuntu 9.04 Oct 19 17:02:36 wazd_: Is your prompt "sbox-FREMANTLE_X86" Oct 19 17:02:45 heya Oct 19 17:02:52 fiferboy: yeah Oct 19 17:02:54 hey Oct 19 17:03:53 qwerty12_N810, is there a source fuse package Oct 19 17:03:54 ? Oct 19 17:04:05 In extras-devel, like I said Oct 19 17:04:09 wazd_: before starting scratchbox, "echo 4096 |sudo tee /proc/sys/vm/mmap_min_address" Oct 19 17:04:13 yep, got the crashy ver of xchat all right Oct 19 17:04:24 qwerty12_N810, FIX IT PLEASE Oct 19 17:05:17 the font size is killing my eyes Oct 19 17:06:03 fiferboy: no such file or directory Oct 19 17:06:16 wazd_: before starting scratchbox, "echo 4096 |sudo tee /proc/sys/vm/mmap_min_addr" Oct 19 17:07:02 fiferboy: done Oct 19 17:07:15 wazd_: Start up scratchbox and try again Oct 19 17:07:49 fiferboy: Have to restart VM, adter that segfault SDK don't want to work Oct 19 17:08:24 fiferboy: wait a sec :) Oct 19 17:09:19 mgedmin900: Will do soon, I promise... Oct 19 17:09:32 :) Oct 19 17:09:45 N900 not playing nice with my router isn't an incentive... :) Oct 19 17:10:46 qwerty12_N810, power saving issues ? Oct 19 17:11:08 VDVsx: I've turned PSM off but I still get messed around... Oct 19 17:11:34 qwerty12_N810: i've encountered really odd behaviour caused by corrupt DNS answers on my router Oct 19 17:12:07 fiferboy: no, fault again Oct 19 17:12:09 like what Oct 19 17:12:18 Stskeeps: Hmm, I have been playing with them a little, will look, thanks Oct 19 17:12:33 wazd_: When is the fault happening? When loading scratchbox? Trying to start the gui? Oct 19 17:12:34 qwerty12_N810, humm, brand ? Oct 19 17:12:58 VDVsx: An über shitty Thomson Speedtouch Oct 19 17:13:06 fiferboy: I open up mail, see wizard, press next, try to focus in the field Oct 19 17:13:13 fiferboy: then it crashes Oct 19 17:13:30 fiferboy: and the worst thing that I have to restart Ubuntu to get it work again Oct 19 17:13:34 wazd_: Ah, that is a Xephyr problem with ubuntu Oct 19 17:13:56 There is a patch somewhere. I recompiled Xephyr for my system to get it to work Oct 19 17:13:58 the tiny load applet is pretty Oct 19 17:14:01 qwerty12_N810, I had one of those :) Oct 19 17:14:18 anyone live in germany? Oct 19 17:14:28 Germans? Oct 19 17:14:36 VDVsx: Since you say "had", I presume your experience with one was not the best of them either? Oct 19 17:14:43 wazd_: I will send you my patched binaries :) Oct 19 17:14:46 yeah i might need some help finding something on the t mobile site Oct 19 17:14:55 my husband's internet connection still hasn't been connected and he's ticked off Oct 19 17:15:13 fiferboy: that would be nice :) Oct 19 17:15:27 wazd_: Unless you want to compile some yourself... ;) Oct 19 17:15:45 fiferboy: sure! :D Oct 19 17:15:45 qwerty12_N810, actually was good, but I got a new one from my ISP so I gave the thomson to a friend Oct 19 17:16:07 qwerty12_N810, never tried with the n900, but worked well with the n810 :) Oct 19 17:16:10 wazd_: I will send you the 30 step instructions, hang on a sec Oct 19 17:16:15 VDVsx: What?! Man, I feel sorry for your friend :/ Oct 19 17:16:19 fiferboy: 30?! Oct 19 17:16:24 fiferboy: oh my :D Oct 19 17:16:28 ;) Oct 19 17:16:52 wazd_: Just kidding. You'll have an email in a few minutes Oct 19 17:16:59 qwerty12_N810, he's a happy windows user, so np ;) Oct 19 17:17:36 I was about to make a remark but then I looked up at my monitor :( Oct 19 17:21:32 GeneralAntilles, ping Oct 19 17:22:12 VDVsx, hrm? Oct 19 17:23:00 GeneralAntilles, do you know who is the responsible for this page: http://maemo.org/news/jobs/ Oct 19 17:23:42 VDVsx, not offhand. Oct 19 17:23:59 X-Fade, dneary or qgil should know, though. Oct 19 17:24:24 GeneralAntilles, ok, gonna ask, thanks :) Oct 19 17:25:14 VDVsx, drop an email to jobs@maemo.org Oct 19 17:25:19 VDVsx, and see who replies Oct 19 17:26:10 crashanddie, hehe, might work, I'll ask in the ML Oct 19 17:27:46 * GeneralAntilles rarely gets replies from those Nokia-owned @maemo.org addresses. Oct 19 17:27:55 Anybody get a response from Forum Nokia yet? Oct 19 17:28:42 Forum Nokia? Oct 19 17:29:13 About the discount codes. Oct 19 17:29:23 discount codes? Oct 19 17:29:43 * crashanddie crawls back into his cave Oct 19 17:29:54 crashanddie, the email Quim sent out on Friday. Oct 19 17:30:36 GeneralAntilles, didn't get an email from Quim on Friday Oct 19 17:30:40 Ah, 139. Oct 19 17:30:48 Well, it went out to everybody with karma >200. Oct 19 17:30:51 heh Oct 19 17:30:52 lol Oct 19 17:31:07 ~€300 devices Oct 19 17:31:20 ah, discount? Dun't care 'bout dat :P Oct 19 17:31:41 crashanddie, at ML, grab "your company" from the profile page, is your suggestion ? Oct 19 17:32:01 VDVsx, and "availability", if possible Oct 19 17:32:19 well, I guess not Oct 19 17:32:34 because being on that page implies you're available to discuss about it Oct 19 17:32:50 crashanddie, yeah, agreed Oct 19 17:33:14 GeneralAntilles, it's funny though... At the summit, not a couple of hours went by without me meeting someone and have them going "Who are you? Oh, crashanddie, you" Oct 19 17:33:28 "you." Oct 19 17:34:03 yet again, no matter which karma stuff we talk about, I'm never qualified, and I keep proving that it's not quantity that's important Oct 19 17:34:18 139 is getting there though Oct 19 17:34:26 I've slipped a bit on tmo Oct 19 17:34:31 * RST38h moos at the moon Oct 19 17:34:33 bah! Oct 19 17:34:44 am i the only maemo professional :S Oct 19 17:34:52 no, you're without a job Oct 19 17:34:58 or are you? Oct 19 17:34:58 We should have IRC karma. Oct 19 17:35:03 Unless..? Oct 19 17:35:03 Somebody just needs to write the code. . . . Oct 19 17:35:10 Yesss, yesssss Oct 19 17:35:16 Yess, my precioussss Oct 19 17:35:19 GeneralAntilles, I heard some people talk about it at the summit Oct 19 17:35:31 GeneralAntilles, and being discarded very, very quickly Oct 19 17:35:43 along the lines of "IRC is just noise" Oct 19 17:35:48 crashanddie, dneary's the only person I know to be against it. Oct 19 17:36:05 Most of the people with keys to the karma car seem to be for it. ;) Oct 19 17:36:09 So I don't really see any issues. Oct 19 17:36:09 on which grounds, out of academic curioristy? Oct 19 17:36:09 well, he's a good convincer :P Oct 19 17:36:33 RST38h, spam, idle, useless Oct 19 17:36:40 IRC is the place where I've accomplished the most. Oct 19 17:36:44 GeneralAntilles, agreed Oct 19 17:36:49 It's what got me involved with Maemo in the first place. Oct 19 17:36:52 lcuk, you had the code, didn't you? Oct 19 17:36:54 t.m.o isn't just noise? Oct 19 17:36:57 news to me Oct 19 17:37:05 which code Oct 19 17:37:17 I can't even recall half the stuff I've made happen with IRC. ;) Oct 19 17:37:18 lcuk, that made stats about the people talking on #maemo Oct 19 17:37:21 and btw, the term is not "without a job" its freelance isnt it Oct 19 17:37:30 lcuk, heheh :P Oct 19 17:37:35 A lot of them happened after failed attempts to make things happen on the mailing lists and Talk. Oct 19 17:37:39 hows your job hunting going? Oct 19 17:37:39 lcuk, "self-employed" Oct 19 17:38:13 GeneralAntilles, I think the problem would come from the amount of data there is to process Oct 19 17:38:15 IRC karma could work if you did it on basis on relationship discussions Oct 19 17:38:34 GeneralAntilles, how is the karma currently being accounted for? Every night a script runs and looks at every bit of information? Oct 19 17:38:36 i pointed mgedmin900 towards the irc stats generator Oct 19 17:38:37 like, Y: something, Y, something Oct 19 17:38:41 GeneralAntilles, or is it resumed from the day before? Oct 19 17:38:45 if he managed to get the script running on the historical logs Oct 19 17:38:47 looking for opportunities around Maemo ? join: http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_professionals ;) Oct 19 17:38:49 Stskeeps, ugh. Oct 19 17:38:50 we would have a page soon Oct 19 17:38:53 coders/designers/advocates ^ Oct 19 17:38:55 * mgedmin900 sighs Oct 19 17:39:06 Stskeeps, people don't necessarily use the nickname when they talk Oct 19 17:39:12 Stskeeps, so you'd have to match GAN, GA, Gen, General, GeneralAntilles, GAN800, GAN900, GAN8001 for me? :P Oct 19 17:39:14 Especially when they continue their previous sentence Oct 19 17:39:15 you people never stop talking when I'm not paying attention Oct 19 17:39:21 lol mgedmin900 Oct 19 17:39:31 catching up with irc logs is a full-time job Oct 19 17:39:31 aliases Oct 19 17:39:34 GeneralAntilles: nope, because services can do that for you Oct 19 17:39:41 mgedmin900, you have a bot to do it for you :P Oct 19 17:40:02 ali1234, erm, match every shorthand version of my nick that people use? :) Oct 19 17:40:08 and typos? Oct 19 17:40:16 anomolies Oct 19 17:40:18 GeneralAntilles: same problem as with seen bots Oct 19 17:40:22 Easier to just lower the total karma reward and do it by lines. Oct 19 17:40:29 GeneralAntilles, the problem with your thing is maemo.org doesnt allow swear words Oct 19 17:40:32 GeneralAntilles, 0.01 karma per line Oct 19 17:40:36 sqrt(lines) could work Oct 19 17:41:04 GeneralAntilles: dont need to match all the nicks you use if you register them all Oct 19 17:41:16 ali1234, stop being obtuse Oct 19 17:41:33 ^ Oct 19 17:41:46 ali1234, less than half of those are "nicks I use" Oct 19 17:41:50 ali1234, half the time, people on NITs say "GA" instead of GeneralAntilles (rightfully so), same here, people say "crash" or get the spelling wrong Oct 19 17:41:57 They're shorthand abbreviations other people call me by. Oct 19 17:42:04 and I doubt either GA or "crash" are available for registration Oct 19 17:42:10 oh shite - if you use "crash" seb you will have most lines Oct 19 17:42:12 So, no, Freenode services don't help with that. :) Oct 19 17:42:13 wait, lcuk if I set up irc stats I may get karma??? Oct 19 17:42:14 and that matters because? Oct 19 17:42:14 cool Oct 19 17:42:17 High karma should let you kick and ban people. Oct 19 17:42:22 Otherwise it is no fun Oct 19 17:42:22 yeah! Oct 19 17:42:25 just a little lol Oct 19 17:42:29 RST38h, WORKSFORME Oct 19 17:42:31 Super high karma should let you take over the channel Oct 19 17:42:36 :D Oct 19 17:42:41 To a different degree of course Oct 19 17:42:42 showoff Oct 19 17:42:51 whore Oct 19 17:42:56 Like, Quim should be able ot take over the channel and kick everyone off at any time Oct 19 17:42:59 Jealous. *g* Oct 19 17:43:07 mgedmin900, he has the power to remove you from the chan. you have the power to remove him from all of irc history. Oct 19 17:43:15 General should only be allowed to do it from 3:00am to 5:00am Florida time Oct 19 17:43:32 ali1234, so basically, your algorithm would be what exactly? [begin line][word][comma], -> match [word] against nickserv database, -> get account name, -> lookup account name against maemo.org users, -> add karma? Oct 19 17:43:37 Excellent, during peak European communication hours! Oct 19 17:43:40 lcuk should only be able to take over on every second wednesday of any month that contains 30 days Oct 19 17:43:44 * GeneralAntilles writes some scripts. Oct 19 17:44:04 i dont want control of irc Oct 19 17:44:07 i have my own chan Oct 19 17:44:10 and im not even op Oct 19 17:44:20 thus, you don't have your own chan Oct 19 17:44:26 good point Oct 19 17:44:28 and, just to make sure penguinbait stays persuaded of conspiracy against him, only allow him to take over on Feb 29 Oct 19 17:44:29 you are *in* a chan, without owning it Oct 19 17:44:30 it has a mind of its own Oct 19 17:44:38 it has it's own postcode Oct 19 17:44:44 s/it's/its/ Oct 19 17:44:44 crashanddie meant: it has its own postcode Oct 19 17:45:17 RST38h, I have a friend who was born on the 29th Oct 19 17:45:29 RST38h, technically speaking, he's 5 years old Oct 19 17:45:32 crashanddie: so what does he do? Oct 19 17:45:36 crashanddie: sure, why not? Oct 19 17:45:45 Will he live until 320? Oct 19 17:45:49 ali1234, right, you're not a programmer, are you? Oct 19 17:45:55 crashanddie: yes, i am Oct 19 17:46:19 oh boy, what's your name? So I put it on my people-to-avoid-working-with Oct 19 17:46:27 VDVsx, put yourself on the list Oct 19 17:46:29 since you made it :P Oct 19 17:46:30 The number of poeple who think Google is evil is currently 66.6% Oct 19 17:46:34 crashanddie: don't need to worry about that Oct 19 17:46:40 How fitting Oct 19 17:46:43 and crashanddie you have enough to say on the ML about helping - add yourself Oct 19 17:46:53 lcuk, eh? Oct 19 17:46:59 crashanddie: i can see you're not a programmer. apparently you have never heard of a hash table? Oct 19 17:47:01 context? Oct 19 17:47:03 http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_professionals Oct 19 17:47:03 lcuk, later ;) Oct 19 17:47:23 * lcuk removes himself cos it looks just daft Oct 19 17:47:23 ali1234, hang on, are you a software architect? Oct 19 17:48:01 is there a Maemo dilettantes list? Oct 19 17:48:01 lcuk, I have a hard time convincing myself to write my name on the list Oct 19 17:48:02 it is called t.m.o Oct 19 17:48:08 why Oct 19 17:48:09 RST38h, or -users Oct 19 17:48:18 lcuk, well, what if my employer finds this list? Oct 19 17:48:20 lcuk, as you said, someone has to be the first ;) Oct 19 17:48:33 always Oct 19 17:48:33 crashanddie: Just call yourself The Master of Universe. Make sure it is what you have on your CV as well Oct 19 17:48:50 * lcuk finds it odd to be first at some things and last at others Oct 19 17:48:54 lcuk, and considering they're currently investigating maemo, there's a chance they could find it (by mistake or dumb luck) Oct 19 17:49:02 and? Oct 19 17:49:07 its a list of professionals Oct 19 17:49:10 say "happy in job" Oct 19 17:49:12 if you are Oct 19 17:49:14 well, "looking for: job" doesn't sound too good Oct 19 17:49:18 its just about community help Oct 19 17:49:29 contacts Oct 19 17:49:52 I'm hardly a maemo professional Oct 19 17:49:56 its about making yourself known in the community isnt it - if people need security related advice Oct 19 17:50:03 wouldnt you rather they came to you and your firm Oct 19 17:50:29 unless professional bitching is an acceptable criterion Oct 19 17:50:47 they can hire me :P Oct 19 17:51:50 sure Oct 19 17:51:55 we are making this list Oct 19 17:52:06 ali1234, anyway, getting back to the initial subject: no need to over-engineer and over-complicate things, GA is right in the fact that simply lowering the value of each sentence makes more sense than having a CPU crunch useless numbers for something as useless as karma Oct 19 17:52:26 just see what the stats come out with Oct 19 17:52:36 and then gain a reasonable metric based on those Oct 19 17:52:53 ali1234, maemo.org is already quite low on power as it is, and I'm feeling that the influx of users we're going to get with the marketing campaigns of the n900 isn't going to lower that, and I can't but think that doing nickname matching is going to be very expensive in terms of cpu hours Oct 19 17:52:53 no point in coming up with an algo which may make a few people skyrocket Oct 19 17:54:07 crashanddie: what is it running on, a z80? Oct 19 17:54:26 karma isn't useless, apparently... Oct 19 17:54:33 ali1234, a 770 :P Oct 19 17:54:34 ali1234, a 770 Oct 19 17:54:38 lol Oct 19 17:54:48 they upgraded the 770 didnt they Oct 19 17:54:54 Hopefully tekojo's going to get us more servers soon. :\ Oct 19 17:55:03 We REALLY don't need a repeated of November 2007. Oct 19 17:55:05 i heard rumours about 32x moar power Oct 19 17:55:14 GeneralAntilles, december Oct 19 17:55:14 GeneralAntilles, oh man that was god awful Oct 19 17:55:31 average of 25 refreshes to get a wiki page Oct 19 17:55:37 so it was YOU! Oct 19 17:55:46 30 tabs and lots of F5 action Oct 19 17:55:48 I was just trying to read stuff Oct 19 17:55:54 It's shit like that that'll kill this platform. Oct 19 17:55:55 November 2007. Nevar forget. Oct 19 17:55:59 if you're doing a full text search on nicks, that's going to be expensive. but i can't possibly think why you would want to do that Oct 19 17:56:00 lcuk, RTA firefox plugin Oct 19 17:56:08 lcuk, ctrl + f5 refreshes all tabs Oct 19 17:56:09 lol zerojay Oct 19 17:56:12 o_O Oct 19 17:56:15 if otoh, you're just matching that start of each line, that's cheap Oct 19 17:56:37 right Oct 19 17:56:43 and that tells you who said what, if a) they register, and b) they put that info on t.m.o Oct 19 17:56:46 well, you pay for the dedi :) Oct 19 17:57:08 ali1234: You'll get 2 karma for it. Oct 19 17:57:31 should lots of irc participation increase the karma or decrease it? Oct 19 17:57:39 considering you don't even need to process it in real time Oct 19 17:57:51 mgedmin900: facilitation should earn karma Oct 19 17:58:01 and at most this place has about 10 lines per minute Oct 19 17:58:07 don't we have infobot to handle that? :P Oct 19 17:58:18 Why would participating in IRC LOWER karma? Oct 19 17:58:25 ~zerojay++ Oct 19 17:58:33 zerojay++ Oct 19 17:58:33 sts, what about wasting other people's time? Oct 19 17:58:36 ~ping Oct 19 17:58:37 ;) Oct 19 17:58:37 ~pong Oct 19 17:58:42 damn Oct 19 17:58:44 ~karma infobot Oct 19 17:58:44 infobot has karma of 3 Oct 19 17:58:49 ~karma zerojay Oct 19 17:58:49 zerojay has karma of 2 Oct 19 17:58:51 ~karma zer0mdq Oct 19 17:58:51 zer0mdq has neutral karma Oct 19 17:58:55 there you go Oct 19 17:58:58 karma problem sorted Oct 19 17:59:03 lol Oct 19 17:59:06 ~crashanddie-- Oct 19 17:59:10 :( Oct 19 17:59:23 ~infobot-=3 Oct 19 17:59:27 ~karma crashanddie Oct 19 17:59:27 crashanddie has karma of -2 Oct 19 17:59:33 bloody hell Oct 19 17:59:34 ouch Oct 19 18:00:08 Stskeeps, found a way to stay under 200 :D Oct 19 18:00:23 crashanddie: posting goatse over and over again on planet.maemo.org? Oct 19 18:00:34 no, ~crashanddie-- Oct 19 18:00:39 that would get you karma. Oct 19 18:00:46 damn Oct 19 18:00:47 fiferboy: looks like that helped, ta! Oct 19 18:00:49 I mean, poasting goatse. Oct 19 18:00:51 at least in the new tmo Oct 19 18:01:01 heya wazd Oct 19 18:01:10 Stskeeps, I think an issue like that would be solved at the administrative level. ;) Oct 19 18:01:10 javis: behemoatse! Oct 19 18:01:22 wazd: :D Oct 19 18:02:01 goatse gives a whole new meaning to "Open Source" Oct 19 18:02:16 RST38h: heya Oct 19 18:02:48 fiferboy: next problem - App Manager can\rquote t install anything Oct 19 18:02:49 i still kinda dig the idea of giving out karma Oct 19 18:02:55 to others Oct 19 18:03:03 wazd: There is a special package for that, hang on Oct 19 18:03:12 that would balance the areas that doesn't get automatic karma gathering Oct 19 18:03:14 Behemoatse! http://i056.radikal.ru/0910/f0/62effd0e0132.jpg Oct 19 18:03:15 * RST38h did it Oct 19 18:03:44 wazd: fakeroot apt-get install fakeroot, enable red pill mode and turn on assume internet connection Oct 19 18:03:44 * mgedmin900 is *not* clicking on that Oct 19 18:03:49 * Stskeeps would give wazd plenty of karma Oct 19 18:04:13 RST38h: Original is still better =) Oct 19 18:04:17 then you will never know the TRUTH! Oct 19 18:04:17 anyone got the n900 to share its 3g connection Oct 19 18:04:29 eean kinda Oct 19 18:04:32 qwerty: Original hippo? Oct 19 18:04:49 eean see my mail to maemo-users@ Oct 19 18:04:54 RST38h: Nah, original goatse of course! Oct 19 18:05:01 cool thanks Oct 19 18:05:21 qwerty12_N810: can\rquote t see xterm :( Oct 19 18:05:30 qwerty12_N810: eeek Oct 19 18:05:39 socks proxy ain't really connection sharing... Oct 19 18:05:46 qwerty: Not weird enough =) Oct 19 18:05:54 whoa this chan got big :P Oct 19 18:06:11 "fakeroot apt-get install fakeroot" sounds funny. Oct 19 18:06:12 Stskeeps: for what? :) Oct 19 18:06:20 ftr, it's fakeroot apt-get install fakeroot-net Oct 19 18:06:34 wazd: for your efforts Oct 19 18:06:52 javispedro: Ah, thanks. But it still goes for -net either way :p Oct 19 18:07:17 ah, then why the thanks. ;P Oct 19 18:07:20 * mgedmin900 remembers wazd for posting pretty pictures and complaining about nit availability in .ru Oct 19 18:07:21 RST38h: I wasn't exactly feeling the weirdness factor with your pic either :) Oct 19 18:07:28 Quake 3 has a nice goatse Oct 19 18:07:43 wtf did I stumble into here? Oct 19 18:07:45 "nice" "goatse"? Oct 19 18:08:03 lcuk, added Oct 19 18:08:10 Stskeeps: I do it for fun, not karma :D Oct 19 18:08:19 mgedmin900 I have october open, whats the subject? Oct 19 18:08:24 that's the way to do it Oct 19 18:08:24 * GeneralAntilles has 3 iPhone converts now. Oct 19 18:08:25 qwerty: Ok. You see wooden statues of anally expanded hippos every day. Oct 19 18:08:37 eean something about internet connection sharing Oct 19 18:08:49 qwerty: Anything with tentacles in immediate vicinity of those? Oct 19 18:09:09 qwerty12_N810: where\rquote s xterm in sdk? :) Oct 19 18:09:17 qwerty12_N810: what the hell with \lquote Oct 19 18:09:19 found it Oct 19 18:09:43 RST38h: Meh, it's wooden, that's the thing Oct 19 18:09:47 wait or was it rst who's always complaining about nit availability in .ru? Oct 19 18:09:58 * mgedmin900 needs a memory upgrade Oct 19 18:10:03 * RST38h gets nits from the US Oct 19 18:10:03 wazd: Use a terminal with scratchbox running Oct 19 18:10:04 for his brain Oct 19 18:10:12 But, mgedmin, you have got all this logged Oct 19 18:10:14 excellent crashanddie :D Oct 19 18:10:19 wazd: osso-xterm in the SDK is pure suckage Oct 19 18:11:09 rst, I'm not google, finding things in logs is hard Oct 19 18:11:10 either try harder or forget it then =) Oct 19 18:11:54 * javispedro glances at a totally unparenthesized C expression mixing +, -, >>, &, | and * operators Oct 19 18:12:05 :( Oct 19 18:12:12 javispedro, paste or it didnt happen Oct 19 18:12:28 why, I did it myself :( Oct 19 18:12:35 javispedro: run it throug a rexeg compiler and see what happens! Oct 19 18:12:45 lol javispedro Oct 19 18:12:48 ~javispedro++ Oct 19 18:12:51 so we can laugh of course Oct 19 18:12:57 actually, do you know something that would output an AST or RPN? Oct 19 18:13:18 an experienced c programmer? Oct 19 18:13:21 my bus is here Oct 19 18:13:30 * javispedro goes look for operators priority list Oct 19 18:13:44 His bus is here, folks. Oct 19 18:13:51 mgedmin900 has left the building. :) Oct 19 18:14:04 He is going going gone Oct 19 18:14:19 hey 3g rules Oct 19 18:14:39 Wish I could say the same thing. I'm only able to do 2G or 2.5G. :/ Oct 19 18:14:49 2g is just the same for irc surely Oct 19 18:14:54 even 1g was Oct 19 18:14:55 stack overflow to the rescue: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/548613/how-do-i-parenthesize-an-expression-programmatically Oct 19 18:15:00 how many gs do you need for irc? Oct 19 18:15:01 1g would be AMPS Oct 19 18:15:27 You don't need 3g for IRC. Just having 3G in general to use on the device WOULD be nice. Oct 19 18:15:50 qwerty12_N810: cool, that helped :) Oct 19 18:16:07 Nice :) Oct 19 18:16:15 mgedmin900: i wonder if the pc suite does tcp/ip over usb for the ovi stuff then Oct 19 18:16:43 eean when you figure it out tell me Oct 19 18:16:57 iirc the docs said it would use the n900 as a modem Oct 19 18:17:08 mgedmin900 but why, why can't we get some iptables :D Oct 19 18:17:11 orly Oct 19 18:17:22 and that apps on the n900 would not be able to be online during that time Oct 19 18:17:24 GeneralAntilles, I can't help but smile at last week's episode title of House... "Instant Karma" Oct 19 18:17:39 eean: just build your own kernel? Oct 19 18:17:46 eean I want iptables badly Oct 19 18:17:54 was trying to build the kernel module today Oct 19 18:17:56 crashanddie, lol. Oct 19 18:18:14 luke-jr pretty sue theres a bunch of binary drivers Oct 19 18:18:24 open source FTL Oct 19 18:18:41 maemo wiki has a page about kernel builds Oct 19 18:18:47 mgedmin900 how did it go Oct 19 18:19:12 not well Oct 19 18:19:15 eean: that would be illegal Oct 19 18:19:27 eean: threaten to sue if so ;) Oct 19 18:19:28 I ignored half the instructions, knowing better Oct 19 18:19:39 the resulting .ko failed to load Oct 19 18:19:41 luke-jr legally grey :) Oct 19 18:19:45 eean: not grey Oct 19 18:19:47 one week less for the gles drivers! Oct 19 18:20:05 then what Oct 19 18:20:09 * GeneralAntilles hopes they're ready for FLS Oct 19 18:20:17 er... Oct 19 18:20:18 well. Oct 19 18:20:21 I install them. Oct 19 18:20:22 then... Oct 19 18:20:27 * Stskeeps has no idea if he'll be able to integrate them in time for FLS though. Oct 19 18:20:42 ~FLS Oct 19 18:20:43 Library catalog/circulation system. URL: http://www.dorm4.org/~fuzz/fls/ Oct 19 18:20:46 qwerty12_N810: but I still can\rquote t install app from downloaded deb :) Oct 19 18:20:52 Florida Linux Show Oct 19 18:21:15 wazd: I just use dpkg for debs I download Oct 19 18:21:19 wazd why you talking in rtf? Oct 19 18:21:36 mgedmin900: dunno :D Oct 19 18:21:46 mgedmin900: hah Oct 19 18:21:48 dpkg -i file.deb doesn't work? Oct 19 18:22:48 maybe even force it Oct 19 18:24:17 location widget rules Oct 19 18:24:23 my stop next Oct 19 18:26:51 luke-jr eg http://blog.internetnews.com/skerner/2008/06/why-open-source-drivers-and-mo.html Oct 19 18:26:52 mmm Oct 19 18:26:56 don't get it Oct 19 18:27:02 Hey plp Oct 19 18:27:14 eean: no closed modules in maemo5, afaik Oct 19 18:27:17 I access ubuntu FS from scratchbox Oct 19 18:27:38 how can I access Documents folder in SDK? Oct 19 18:27:45 eean: ? Oct 19 18:27:50 /home/yourusername/.documents? Oct 19 18:28:03 MyDocs! MyDocs!! Oct 19 18:28:14 uhu_wazd: ~user/.documents ? Oct 19 18:28:15 home sweet temporary home Oct 19 18:28:31 /home/user/MyDocs/.documents if you followed sdk instructions Oct 19 18:28:38 (and thus /home/user is a symling to ~) Oct 19 18:28:47 wat? Oct 19 18:29:00 symlink? Oct 19 18:29:03 ok Oct 19 18:29:15 database area is locked Oct 19 18:29:17 mgedmin900: yep. pardon my er... martian english. Oct 19 18:29:30 * qwerty12_N810 remembers symlinking ~ to /home/user even in the Beta2 SDK... Too much hardcoding :-) Oct 19 18:30:08 are you sharing your sbox home and your non-sbox homes? Oct 19 18:30:20 aah, now I get it Oct 19 18:30:46 stskeeps really? should be able to build a new kern no problem then Oct 19 18:30:48 id like to know if the hildon-application-manager have an open source code. Oct 19 18:30:53 eean: yes Oct 19 18:30:59 cool Oct 19 18:31:02 paulo_ouriques: it does, it's on maemo.gitorious.org Oct 19 18:31:07 eean: http://www.kroah.com/log/linux/ols_2006_keynote.html Oct 19 18:31:24 ok Oct 19 18:32:00 mgedmin900 do you know if the wireless supports sharing a p2p Oct 19 18:32:13 * mgedmin900 will likely soon lose 3g and 2g coverage Oct 19 18:32:25 eean, I failed adhoc wifi Oct 19 18:32:27 i guess it'd have to Oct 19 18:32:37 yeah, from what i read, hildon has been committed back to gnome now too Oct 19 18:32:41 hmm what happened Oct 19 18:33:08 one problem is how to connect to adhoc wifi without disconnecting 3g? Oct 19 18:33:09 ah Oct 19 18:33:14 use cli tools i guess Oct 19 18:33:14 maemo 5 ui allows only 1 connection active Oct 19 18:33:23 right Oct 19 18:33:30 wireless-tools is ported? Oct 19 18:33:43 probably not :) Oct 19 18:33:44 and id like to know how this application get informations about installed applications. Oct 19 18:33:46 I haven't found them yet Oct 19 18:34:21 ah there they are Oct 19 18:34:23 wonder how the ui does it Oct 19 18:34:31 might be dbus Oct 19 18:34:38 I didn't have the right repo Oct 19 18:34:50 wireless-tools? Oct 19 18:35:02 cool :D Oct 19 18:35:03 and id like to know how hildon-application-manager get informations about installed applications. Oct 19 18:35:48 paulo my guess is the standard linux desktop way, but i dunno Oct 19 18:35:54 disclaimer, i don't have a device in hand, but isn't that just a frontend for apt or dpkg of some sort? Oct 19 18:36:04 um oops :D Oct 19 18:36:17 oh wait yes Oct 19 18:36:39 * mgedmin900 wonders if he's still online Oct 19 18:36:44 Hildon Application Manager is the Hildon graphical package manager, it uses the Debian package management tools (APT and dpkg) and provides a graphical interface for installing, updating and removing packages. It is a limited package manager, designed specifically for end-users, in that it doesn't directly offer the user access to system files and libraries.[5] With the Diablo release of Maemo, Hildon Application Manager now supports Oct 19 18:37:14 thought he was talking about the app launcher Oct 19 18:37:14 its just standard deb stuff paulo Oct 19 18:37:14 you are mgedmin900 Oct 19 18:37:30 n900 for £360 is worth it, surely :) Oct 19 18:38:02 yep Oct 19 18:38:14 no! it does not have mms! Oct 19 18:38:16 nor java! Oct 19 18:38:19 lol Oct 19 18:38:28 what's a good way to pick a frequency for fm transmitter? Oct 19 18:38:32 I was overjoyed when I noticed it didn't have java :) Oct 19 18:38:34 I like how the issue is already reffered as "MMS & Java" Oct 19 18:38:34 mms is frakin lame... use email :D Oct 19 18:38:35 No Java should raise the price up... Oct 19 18:38:56 heh Oct 19 18:39:01 You were overjoyed about a missing language? Oct 19 18:39:03 ok, need to repair the audio jack on laptop, bbl Oct 19 18:39:06 pfft Oct 19 18:39:09 hehe Oct 19 18:39:13 mgedmin900, tune until you find an empty station, then pick that. Oct 19 18:39:25 blah? Oct 19 18:39:26 Shapeshifter: be happy then! S60 Java Runtime may be coming! Oct 19 18:39:27 mgedmin900, don't plug in USB, though, or you'll never be able to use the FM transmitter again. :roll: Oct 19 18:39:32 yey, took a powernap and mms nerds have posted in the mms support thread, awesome \o/ Oct 19 18:39:33 I'm sure people will use share on facebook/ovi/flickr feature on n900 more than they used mms on their previous phones =) Oct 19 18:39:35 there are no empty stations Oct 19 18:39:44 mgedmin900, how are you tuning? Oct 19 18:39:46 javis: really? Oct 19 18:39:51 mgedmin900, seeking? Oct 19 18:40:01 I understand why java wouldn't be a priority, but i was kinda hoping for some support down the line... i've got a PBX configuration app that's a jar Oct 19 18:40:13 there are stations that broadcast static Oct 19 18:40:14 RST38h: of course not. >:) Oct 19 18:40:44 mgedmin900, that's empty. Oct 19 18:40:56 * mgedmin900 is rotating this big knob thingy Oct 19 18:40:59 ok, thanks a lot. Oct 19 18:41:23 absolute: then close it! Oct 19 18:41:24 mgedmin900, if your stereo indicates whether a station is strong enough to get stereo that's usually a good sign. Oct 19 18:41:33 * Solarion slaps his knee and guffaws Oct 19 18:41:51 :) Oct 19 18:42:18 i wonder if we could convince fmradio to tune digital stations Oct 19 18:42:55 how complicated can implementing digital radio in gstreamer be right? :D Oct 19 18:43:22 I want to implement chiptunes support into Media Player. Oct 19 18:43:41 qwerty12_N810: ping Oct 19 18:43:48 darktears: Yep? Oct 19 18:43:58 whats chiptunes Oct 19 18:44:12 when media player drops connection to a radio station due to temporary network problems, it tunes to the next station Oct 19 18:44:19 this irritates me Oct 19 18:44:23 qwerty12_N810: i tried the signal, but according to my inspection com.nokia.hildon_desktop interface doesn't exist Oct 19 18:44:44 eean: Basically old game/console music. They are played through an emulator for the sound chip of that console/computer. Oct 19 18:44:59 eean: So.. think C64 SIDs, NES, SNES... Oct 19 18:45:00 qwerty12_N810: i found one com.nokia.hildonDesktop but there is no such exit_app_view call possible Oct 19 18:45:04 ah fun Oct 19 18:45:05 spc player! Oct 19 18:45:06 VDVsx, did that mail get into your inbox Oct 19 18:45:13 javispedro: You got it. Oct 19 18:45:18 dont expect an answer about its contents, just to know i sent it right Oct 19 18:45:19 darktears: Hmm, let me check on the N900 Oct 19 18:45:20 is there any docs about dbus interfaces? Oct 19 18:45:25 actually, someone already made a spc gst element Oct 19 18:45:26 lcuk, yup Oct 19 18:45:26 qwerty12_N810: thanks :D Oct 19 18:45:30 k :) Oct 19 18:45:41 and I made a vgmstreamer gstreamer element for streamed music Oct 19 18:45:42 qwerty12_N810: any docs where dbus interfaces are documented? Oct 19 18:45:52 javispedro: Yeah, there's a lot of elements for what we need already in gstreamer. Just a matter of getting Media Player to play nice. Oct 19 18:46:06 I think. Oct 19 18:46:11 darktears: Haven't a clue. Sorry Oct 19 18:46:45 qwerty12_N810: thanks anyway Oct 19 18:47:03 so bad that there is no way to find docs about those interfaces Oct 19 18:47:24 hildon-desktop is open source, fwiw Oct 19 18:48:14 is hildon-desktop the window manager? Oct 19 18:48:22 matchbox2 is Oct 19 18:48:31 or just the bit that draws the desktop? Oct 19 18:48:34 the ui components ontop of the window manager Oct 19 18:50:36 holy moly! Oct 19 18:51:12 You can't say that and leave us hanging Oct 19 18:51:50 holy shit! Oct 19 18:51:52 lolot Oct 19 18:52:11 i just ran stats on #maemo from my incomplete logs Oct 19 18:52:14 Anyone here been to Nokia Flagship Chicao? they're EVIL . . . called and asked if they had an n900 demo unit in stock, they said yes . . . Drove down there Yesterday, only to be told we haven't updated the software lately, so we won't let you play with it untill we pull the battery and you can then touch its lifeless shell Oct 19 18:52:18 lcuk spoke a total of 634075 words! Oct 19 18:52:18 lcuk's faithful follower, johnx, didn't speak so much: 375052 words. Oct 19 18:52:21 fm transmitter sucks unless I put the n900 right next to the radio Oct 19 18:52:21 1.5 meters and the noise is bad Oct 19 18:52:21 okay, /me logs off Oct 19 18:52:35 Ah yes... yet another great pic of a burger coming to the Maemo EATS! flickr group soon. ; Oct 19 18:52:37 :P Oct 19 18:53:05 damn in the US the digital radio is all closed standards Oct 19 18:53:11 figures Oct 19 18:53:28 eean: use a2dp and get a bluetooth deck in the car Oct 19 18:53:32 Is there somewhere where it's _not_ closed standards? Oct 19 18:53:40 uk Oct 19 18:53:52 What do they use there? Oct 19 18:53:56 DAB Oct 19 18:54:15 http://liqbase.net/maemo_incomplete_ircstats.htm Oct 19 18:54:39 effectively they stream mp3's over air Oct 19 18:54:55 sorry for missing template images and things i dont know what im doing Oct 19 18:54:59 but it offers a glimpse Oct 19 18:55:00 mp2 Oct 19 18:55:07 Okay, so replace "closed" by "patented". Oct 19 18:55:19 wirelessdreamer: huh? Oct 19 18:55:52 GeneralAntilles, you loud mouth! Oct 19 18:56:08 I wonder how many emails 2DBoy got via my thread this morning. Oct 19 18:56:08 derf software patents don't exist in europe Oct 19 18:56:08 eean: Hahahha. Oct 19 18:56:11 Tell yourself whatever you want. Oct 19 18:56:43 well you can go on obeying patents that don't exist :P Oct 19 18:56:51 lcuk, what? Oct 19 18:57:00 Patent's are ickey. Oct 19 18:57:06 eean: You realize Franuhofer is a German company, right? Oct 19 18:57:25 Software patents most _definitely_ exist in Europe. They're just not called software patents. Oct 19 18:57:36 derf: really? Oct 19 18:57:40 Really. Oct 19 18:57:43 ewww Oct 19 18:57:49 I can understand copyright to an extent, but i'm not a patent fan at all Oct 19 18:58:01 I thought it was just us americans who were that stupid. Oct 19 18:58:11 Patents would be fine if they were reasonable. Oct 19 18:58:17 Just like copyright would be fine if it were reasonable. Oct 19 18:58:23 Both encourage creativity and innovation. Oct 19 18:58:24 absolute: I'm more like the reverse Oct 19 18:58:24 franuhofer has a US patent Oct 19 18:58:32 Even better, if they can't get something through the European patent system, they just refuse to license the US patents to people unless they also agree to pay licensing fees for any other locale where they want to distribute the product. Oct 19 18:58:38 While benefiting the public in the long term. Oct 19 18:58:54 even copyright is really screwed up to an extent though, i agree Oct 19 18:58:54 So unless you want to completely exclude the US market, you still have to pay patent licensing fees in Europe for US patents. Oct 19 18:58:58 nahhh they dont Oct 19 18:59:02 * lcuk is antipatent Oct 19 18:59:17 How about 6 month software patents? Oct 19 18:59:24 I would be fine with those. Oct 19 18:59:36 dmj7261, if they were free to get and easy to search without complication i would agree Oct 19 18:59:42 ...there would be little point in getting one though Oct 19 18:59:53 lcuk, then where's anybody's incentive to innovate? Oct 19 18:59:57 "you made something a little too close to something this company made, now you owe them money" Oct 19 18:59:59 it takes 6-24 months just to get us patent Oct 19 19:00:03 GeneralAntilles, im innovating Oct 19 19:00:04 By the time you could implement something, it would already be usable Oct 19 19:00:06 publically Oct 19 19:00:07 derf you have to pay them for your stuff you sell to the us Oct 19 19:00:18 im doing stuff that hasnt been done before Oct 19 19:00:25 that's different then payong them in europe Oct 19 19:00:35 lcuk, why would I, as a private citizen, waste my time and money inventing something if as soon as I release it some Chinese manufacturer comes out with nearly the same product for half the price? Oct 19 19:00:35 eean: Have you actually read their license agreement? Oct 19 19:00:37 its open source ffs Oct 19 19:00:38 Patents cover tiny things that are really dumb Oct 19 19:00:40 lcuk: wouldnt be so sure about that Oct 19 19:01:04 WHo here has made a program (or website) that involves anything like a pop-up window? Oct 19 19:01:05 Patents aren't inherently bad or evil, it's just their current implementation that's messed up. Oct 19 19:01:17 yep Oct 19 19:01:24 RST38h, what is innovation tho Oct 19 19:01:29 Patents aren't fulfilling their original purpose Oct 19 19:01:52 eean: I don't believe you. Oct 19 19:01:58 lcuk: wouldnt be sure it has not been done before I mean Oct 19 19:02:03 lcuk, I think you're only thinking in the scope of computer code, but you'll need to think beyond that. Oct 19 19:02:19 GeneralAntilles, we have copyright Oct 19 19:02:30 Not the same thing. :) Oct 19 19:02:34 and that gives automatic protection which patents cannot Oct 19 19:02:50 I suspect that patents on some things other than software are just fine Oct 19 19:03:30 derf was agreeing with the general :P Oct 19 19:03:36 In software it's really the implementation that's important and difficult, not the idea or process (generally speaking) Oct 19 19:03:55 oh god crackberry releases a companion watch Oct 19 19:04:02 dmj7261: Fortunately patent "disclosure" does not require the publication of source code! Oct 19 19:04:11 Okay, everyone who has been holding back due to version churn can now rate personal-ip-address and personal-gprs-mon in extras-testing :) Oct 19 19:04:17 http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/personal-ip-address/0.3-5 Oct 19 19:04:21 http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/personal-gprs-mon/0.5-3 Oct 19 19:04:53 dmj7261 well some stuff does take some research, but yea Oct 19 19:05:16 darktears: I promise "dbus-send --type=signal --session /com/nokia/hildon_desktop com.nokia.hildon_desktop.exit_app_view" brings up the task switcher on my N900 Oct 19 19:05:40 And even then, that research could very well be done without patents Oct 19 19:05:57 the problem with standards being patented is they get people to pay to be compatible, not because its best Oct 19 19:06:36 and you often have the best implementations having dubious legality (media players for instance) Oct 19 19:07:15 media players? you mean codecs Oct 19 19:07:31 yeah but that translates to media players using them. Oct 19 19:07:50 like vlc playing a dvd image on linux Oct 19 19:07:59 dmj7261: I don't think any of that is "dubious". It's blatantly illegal. Oct 19 19:08:12 only in certain countries! Oct 19 19:08:26 dmj7261, VLC is fine AFAIK, its the dvd codec thats wrong - in certain countries Oct 19 19:08:29 that said, it shouldn't be Oct 19 19:08:41 heh Oct 19 19:08:51 lcuk: There is a thing called "contributory infringement". Oct 19 19:08:59 fiferboy: Trying Personal IP Address now... Oct 19 19:09:00 Which makes it VLC's problem, also. Oct 19 19:09:12 qwerty12_N810: Thanks Oct 19 19:09:15 ...and contributory contributory infringement Oct 19 19:09:48 ...and contributory contributory contributory infringement Oct 19 19:10:06 well ordered the n900 , only saying cos excited Oct 19 19:10:32 by the way, how is vlc on the n900? Oct 19 19:10:46 i jsut think there's a fundamental discord when people treat ideas as if they were physical objects... people want freedom of information, but then they also want to keep it for themselves... Oct 19 19:11:30 ideas are fruitless without implementation. Oct 19 19:11:36 i could keep all my ideas to myself Oct 19 19:11:48 No one actually making or enforcing the laws gives two hoots about any platonic ideals. Oct 19 19:11:53 or i could share em and hope they are implemented for the world Oct 19 19:12:04 http://www.vimeo.com/3698663 Oct 19 19:12:05 It's all about entrenched interests and market power. Oct 19 19:12:21 market power from ideas comes from brand recognition Oct 19 19:12:26 wazd_ isn't a sad person either, smiling 32.0% of the time. :D Oct 19 19:12:38 brand recognition -> trademark Oct 19 19:12:51 well right... i guess that's just it... its about making money and keeping something to yourself and profiting from it as an individual more so than it is about creating information that is useful to the species on a larger scale Oct 19 19:12:53 wazd: Stick with the SDK, you'll soon become sad Oct 19 19:14:26 incentive-driven system to counter-balance scarcity Oct 19 19:15:25 qwerty12_N810: well, at least I can go back and forth in it :) Oct 19 19:15:56 wazd: Soon, you will become slowly sucked in... Unable to escape... Oct 19 19:15:58 not saying that's bad to have incentive... but we go a bit overboard with individual identity and neglect our collective identity Oct 19 19:16:04 absolute, if i can make my idea businesses around the world will have 10x more instant feedback and retain the notes and ideas from presentations and meetings Oct 19 19:16:29 a supremely profitable idea Oct 19 19:16:33 the vlc project also develops the dvd decoder btw :P Oct 19 19:16:44 but i dont care what toolkit or company implements it Oct 19 19:16:50 i just want it available Oct 19 19:17:04 my fingers are tired and i cant code it on my own Oct 19 19:17:18 but vlc has the ultimate shield from being sued: having no money Oct 19 19:17:22 the idea that people will stop innovating because somebody might copy them is frankly laughable Oct 19 19:17:42 i hope your project goes well Oct 19 19:17:46 as long as people are copying you, you're most likely in the lead Oct 19 19:18:16 if you're sitting in the rain, you're not going to think "i'd better not build shelter because somebody might copy me, and i won't be able to profit" Oct 19 19:18:25 ...so innovation is like a ticket into the lead position Oct 19 19:18:30 * lcuk just wants to work and think Oct 19 19:19:15 by the way for those who missed it, there's a thread about a potential World of Goo port Oct 19 19:19:17 * wazd thinks a bit to help the author of SideShow app with design Oct 19 19:19:33 dmj7261 awesome :D Oct 19 19:19:46 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=33092 Oct 19 19:19:46 what is SideShow precisely? Oct 19 19:20:07 Solarion: that\rquote s an app to work with Vista/W7 Oct 19 19:20:20 wazd: what does it *do* Oct 19 19:20:25 how do you use it? Oct 19 19:20:27 Solarion: it shows some aditional stuff on the screen of the tablet Oct 19 19:20:40 I saw some markety thing that described it in just enough detail to not actually expalin on anything Oct 19 19:20:42 Solarion: like cpu load, inbox and other widgets Oct 19 19:20:46 what is "some additional stuff"? Oct 19 19:20:52 ah, so it's limited to widgets? Oct 19 19:20:59 desktop widget? or like an auto-hidden bar or something? Oct 19 19:21:18 Solarion: http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windows-vista/features/sideshow.aspx Oct 19 19:21:29 Solarion: google is your friend actually :) Oct 19 19:21:46 wazd: that's the markety thing I was talking about Oct 19 19:21:49 nice Oct 19 19:21:59 doesn't explain squat Oct 19 19:22:25 is the proto Open? Oct 19 19:22:33 Solarion: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_SideShow Oct 19 19:23:52 how useful is this thing in practice? Oct 19 19:26:01 the wikipedia article is a tad more informative Oct 19 19:26:44 sounds like the whole thing is rather dead in the water Oct 19 19:28:00 so... Oct 19 19:28:13 i've almost finished my strings tool :) Oct 19 19:28:36 \o/ hurray Oct 19 19:28:46 what strings tool? Oct 19 19:29:01 timeless_mbp: Good shit. Oct 19 19:29:26 Solarion: it's a tool that helps people lookup strings/id's Oct 19 19:30:02 timeless_mbp: in a program, or what? Oct 19 19:30:08 yes Oct 19 19:30:08 * Solarion tries to visualize what it's for Oct 19 19:30:11 well Oct 19 19:30:11 timeless_mbp: Rock on. I was using msgunfmt and grep the other day on the N900 and it sucked... Oct 19 19:30:12 aah Oct 19 19:30:32 qwerty12_N810: this uses msgunfmt, it's a bit slow at first since it has to build the whole dictionary Oct 19 19:30:39 I presume that it's more intelligent than strings Oct 19 19:30:42 qwerty12_N810: i really really need some help making zenity friendlier Oct 19 19:30:45 timeless_mbp: mxr + strings could be interesting Oct 19 19:30:53 Stskeeps: mxr typically gets strings right Oct 19 19:31:08 timeless_mbp: Yep, I understand that, I mean the value of a tool which does it in one step is nice :) Oct 19 19:31:13 (really, i worked on it ~3 years ago when i first started @nokia) Oct 19 19:31:30 qwerty12_N810: anyway... about zenity Oct 19 19:31:42 1. --column= headers don't seem to paint in my n900s Oct 19 19:31:50 timeless_mbp: does it read the elf data? Oct 19 19:31:51 2. can we make the buttons fingerable? Oct 19 19:31:52 "s" ? Oct 19 19:31:55 Solarion: .mo's Oct 19 19:32:08 what is .mo? Oct 19 19:32:09 lcuk: i have two :) (well 2 protos and one real) Oct 19 19:32:17 when i get the flow thing working timeless can i get you to test? Oct 19 19:32:25 lcuk: sure Oct 19 19:32:27 :D Oct 19 19:32:38 timeless_mbp: Sure, but I'll have to look into it over the weekend Oct 19 19:32:47 3. can we get zenity to autosize smarter? Oct 19 19:33:03 on average it undersizes its height :( Oct 19 19:34:03 Robot101, wjt - Did you guys just release the Facebook Chat plugin for Conversations to a few people? Me too please? :) Oct 19 19:34:33 * Stskeeps wants. Oct 19 19:41:04 zerojay: it triggers a crash in the released telepathy-glib Oct 19 19:41:09 zerojay: we're blocking on getting that fixed Oct 19 19:45:03 wjt: Okay, thanks. Oct 19 19:45:29 wjt: Let me know if you need testing. Oct 19 19:47:59 http://rorr.im/digg.com/baseball/awkward_ny_post_sticker_creates_heat_of_the_nig_headline/ Oct 19 19:50:22 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1221281/Are-gadget-addicted-generation.html - I'd argue against this but... eh... I guess I can't. Oct 19 19:50:58 I think we're communication addicted. Oct 19 19:51:05 Gadgets are just the medium. Oct 19 19:51:19 It's kinda like saying junkies are syringe addicted. Oct 19 19:52:00 spoon addicted Oct 19 19:52:28 I'm perfectly happy to be without, but I'd much rather be with :-) Oct 19 19:52:47 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlCIUI9vCHg <-- I approve. Oct 19 19:52:56 classic response of an addict Oct 19 19:53:59 kynky: right now, I've really been without a mobile for a week.. my HTC universal finally died after years of torture Oct 19 19:54:25 selling my touch pro to get nokia i just ordered Oct 19 19:54:38 hopefully get around £180 to £200 for it Oct 19 19:57:46 kynky: i'll be ordering an n900 as soon as I get paid Oct 19 19:57:48 ;p Oct 19 19:58:51 w00t, u in uk ? Oct 19 19:58:59 yes Oct 19 19:59:03 I'll be ordering an n900 as soon as they come with a carrier bundle. :( Oct 19 19:59:24 Solarion: thought about that, but I'd rather be out of pocket today and have more to spend in a year Oct 19 19:59:35 if you order before 21st, you can get n900 from nokia shop , from £499 to £310 (details in maemo forums) Oct 19 19:59:57 * GeneralAntilles is worried about what carriers will do as far as plat sec goes. Oct 19 20:00:06 you can also order on contact from tmobile and vodafone from free, from mobilephonesdirect Oct 19 20:00:36 kynky: got a link? Oct 19 20:00:50 I heard something about that earlier, but never actually got any info on it Oct 19 20:01:06 GeneralAntilles: they better keep their mitts off it. Oct 19 20:01:07 :P Oct 19 20:01:21 "Maemo: Windows Starter Edition" Oct 19 20:01:34 w00t which for, £310 sim free, or contract deal ? Oct 19 20:01:34 w00t, I'm sure they wont. Oct 19 20:01:41 kynky: sim-free Oct 19 20:01:46 GeneralAntilles: Seems fair to me - if you're under contract they prevent you running your own kernel (remains to be seen, of course, if they also restrict capabilities) Oct 19 20:01:53 bleh. Oct 19 20:02:19 * timeless_mbp ponders Oct 19 20:02:48 * timeless_mbp grumbles Oct 19 20:03:09 zenity[14744]: GLIB WARNING ** Panog - Invalid UTF-8 string passed to pango_layout_set_text() Oct 19 20:03:44 Jaffa, well, my worry here is that people waiting on bundles may not realize what it entails. Oct 19 20:04:16 Jaffa, carriers can do whatever they want with the hardware they sell as long as it complies with the licensing of the software they ship with it. Oct 19 20:04:27 Jaffa, but that doesn't mean I have to agree with it. ;) Oct 19 20:04:28 My other worry is whether there will be bundles at all. Oct 19 20:05:03 zerojay: bundles? Oct 19 20:05:17 w00t, http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=351329&postcount=1326 Oct 19 20:05:25 kynky: appreciated! Oct 19 20:05:39 ordered mine a few hours ago Oct 19 20:06:06 w00t: Subsidized N900s. Oct 19 20:07:06 mm - you mean offered by carriers? Oct 19 20:07:11 The UK seller - one of them at least - offering 'free' n900s is not customising them in any way. Oct 19 20:07:20 zerojay, you can get subsidized n900 on vodafone and tmobile in uk from free , from mobilephonesdirect Oct 19 20:07:39 (or simlocking) Oct 19 20:07:40 kynky: Yes, but the entire world doesn't live in the UK. :) Oct 19 20:07:48 where are you? Oct 19 20:07:51 zerojay: the daily mail disagrees. Oct 19 20:07:56 SpeedEvil: lol Oct 19 20:07:56 SpeedEvil: hahahaha Oct 19 20:07:57 lol Oct 19 20:08:05 SpeedEvil: I've got a brilliant link for you, sec Oct 19 20:08:08 w00t: Canada, though I already have an N900 anyways. Oct 19 20:08:27 SpeedEvil: http://www.qwghlm.co.uk/toys/dailymail/ Oct 19 20:08:28 Well, until September 2010. Oct 19 20:08:45 "COULD THE INTERNET KILL ENGLAND?" <- *g* Oct 19 20:08:55 n900 devs with greater than 200 karma get special discount, and i guess a few here, are eligable for that Oct 19 20:09:11 *nod* Oct 19 20:09:15 kynky: not devs Oct 19 20:09:21 just community members Oct 19 20:09:23 I'm supposed to get my discount, but the e-mail never showed up. Oct 19 20:09:26 well u know :) Oct 19 20:09:39 not only does it sound like its gonna be a while before we get t-mobile subsidies in the states here, but I'm pretty gunshy about buying any devices from cell carriers here Oct 19 20:09:41 800+ karma right now. Oct 19 20:09:42 quim tried to be very clear on that point Oct 19 20:09:50 i got the e62 from cingular when they existed Oct 19 20:09:50 discounts? Oct 19 20:09:54 and that thing is branded/locked to hell Oct 19 20:10:27 Whoa whoa whoa. Oct 19 20:10:32 My karma jumped up past 1100. Oct 19 20:10:33 absolute: no offense.. but you states-ians seem to get assraped when it comes to mobiles.. Oct 19 20:10:33 i couldn't even repurpose it because they disabled all the bluetooth libs (jsr-something) unless you were signed with a special cingular/at&t certificate Oct 19 20:10:40 How in the fuck did that happen. Oct 19 20:10:48 which at&t didn't even know how i could get Oct 19 20:10:52 dont think the carriers like the skype , when my vodafone conyact ends, prob get a 3 simcard, for £5/month get 2GB d/l limit, and they actively support skype Oct 19 20:11:06 mine is at 58 i guess i dont get anything Oct 19 20:11:11 I know nokia isn't restricting software specifically, but i'm still not wanting to get locked into a carrier Oct 19 20:11:11 kynky: I'm lucky. Company simcard, unlimited data plan. Oct 19 20:11:13 :-) Oct 19 20:12:05 Unfortunately, people in the UK with the requisite karma can't really meaningfully take advantage with it. Oct 19 20:12:16 as it's cheaper to ignore it and buy subsidised Oct 19 20:12:40 zerojay: clearly, the issue is that you have too much karma and the algorithm deciding the lists used an unsigned char. Oct 19 20:12:44 w00t, what kind of unlimited? vodafone dont support skype, tmobile only support skype on their £25/month data plan , and that on top of normal phone plan (for instance tmboile standard unlimited plan is £5/month for 1gig d/l limit) Oct 19 20:13:09 * lcuk kicks his funky laptop Oct 19 20:13:18 but you can get round it with a vpn Oct 19 20:13:22 javispedro: Well.. I had 830 or so a few days ago... looks like my bugzilla karma doubled overnight. Oct 19 20:13:45 kynky: I don't know the details, but as far as I know, unlimited unlimited Oct 19 20:13:59 it's a local phone co, though, so I doubt you'd be able to get it Oct 19 20:14:07 (also a very old plan, ~3 years) Oct 19 20:14:09 they resell O2 Oct 19 20:14:14 so maybe see what they offer Oct 19 20:14:19 think the top package £25 data plan, is still 10GB limit Oct 19 20:14:26 but doesnt matter really Oct 19 20:16:19 :( Oct 19 20:16:40 voice + 25 quid that is I assume Oct 19 20:16:45 aww, i'm not in the top 10 Oct 19 20:16:55 Hrm, I lost my Talk karma. Oct 19 20:17:02 SpeedEvil, yeah Oct 19 20:17:08 No wonder Jaffa beat me. Oct 19 20:17:20 GeneralAntilles: ouch Oct 19 20:18:06 Hrm, I guess http://talk.maemo.org URLs don't work. Oct 19 20:18:31 http://maemo.org/profile/list/category/bugzilla_reported/ :) Oct 19 20:18:34 http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8295813.stm Oct 19 20:18:45 Jaffa, gonna kick your ass as soon as this thing reindexes. Oct 19 20:18:50 Jaffa, get ready for the beat down. :P Oct 19 20:19:02 timeless_mbp, ooh, I need to file more bugs. :P Oct 19 20:19:45 im sure karma is just made up on the spot Oct 19 20:19:48 * timeless_mbp frowns Oct 19 20:21:08 SpeedEvil, http://www.t-mobile.co.uk/services/mobile-internet/on-your-laptop/phone-as-modem/ ---> the max package Oct 19 20:21:45 ridiculous cost Oct 19 20:21:47 ah Oct 19 20:21:54 * timeless_mbp really needs some way to deal w/ window transience Oct 19 20:21:59 seriously is the n900 worth buying Oct 19 20:22:01 im starting to wonder Oct 19 20:22:04 :\ Oct 19 20:22:06 kynky: Haha, you think that's bad? Come to Canada. :) Oct 19 20:22:13 Ceron^: no. Oct 19 20:22:16 Ceron^, imho , its the best phone for the next 6 months Oct 19 20:22:16 Ceron^: Why? Oct 19 20:22:18 Ceron^: it's gonna suck. Oct 19 20:22:26 lol Oct 19 20:22:34 well the usb host 0 support, no good navigation software Oct 19 20:22:38 :\ Oct 19 20:22:41 Ceron^: If you value having root on a phone - it's practically the only phone out there. Oct 19 20:23:04 ovi maps for linux (maemo) will improve Oct 19 20:23:04 Ceron^: i think it's likely that maemo mapper will be there Oct 19 20:23:27 Ceron^, Maemo Mapper. Oct 19 20:23:27 Ceron^: It rocks, plain and simple. I've never needed USB host on previous tablets nor this one... Ovi Maps is more than good enough for me. Oct 19 20:23:27 and fennec geoloc support will probably enable google maps Oct 19 20:23:27 Maybe the Ovi Maps team will suddenly stop sucking. Oct 19 20:23:38 what if i for example want to take my canon 5d pictures and transfer them to my n900 Oct 19 20:23:43 :D Oct 19 20:23:44 It's likely - Imo - that the opensource alternatives of the closed-source parts will start to increase after there are several thousand devices in the wild Oct 19 20:23:52 you can install debian and gentoo on it, and a full linux distro can do alot :) Oct 19 20:23:54 USB host is not quite determined. Oct 19 20:23:56 Ceron^: does your canon not use SD? Oct 19 20:24:00 nope Oct 19 20:24:01 Ceron^: Take your card out of your camera and put it into the N900. Oct 19 20:24:03 compact falsh Oct 19 20:24:10 flash like all the pro cameras doo Oct 19 20:24:15 and no wifi support on your camera? Oct 19 20:24:19 nope ;D Oct 19 20:24:20 There hasn't quite been determination one way or the other. Oct 19 20:24:29 Ceron^: there are those wacky CF+wifi cards Oct 19 20:24:45 With the N900 camera, who needs a second camera around anyways? Oct 19 20:24:55 * timeless_mbp chuckles Oct 19 20:24:57 zerojay, ever used an SLR? :P Oct 19 20:25:00 selling my canon 8mp camera to my gf Oct 19 20:25:16 kynky: as long as you keep her Oct 19 20:25:22 lol Oct 19 20:25:25 GeneralAntilles: Nope, and I don't give a flying fuck. I prefer taking pictures, not sitting there fingering myself while changing settings like ISO and shit like that. Oct 19 20:25:31 There is clearly no USB host support, if it would support USB host when you set the right configuration bit, and then solder up a cable to a powered hub - isn't clear. Oct 19 20:25:41 zerojay, ah, well, you wouldn't know, then. :) Oct 19 20:25:50 GeneralAntilles: My wife does. Oct 19 20:25:56 zerojay, N900 doesn't even vaguely compare to using an SLR. Oct 19 20:26:02 prob support wifi usb adaptors i bet? Oct 19 20:26:31 whats wifi usb adaptor :D Oct 19 20:26:33 GeneralAntilles: For some things it's much better Oct 19 20:26:33 And the funny thing is she might spend hours taking her shots and then editing them and tweaking them before uploading her pics a day later... whereas mine are up on the web immediately and personally, I like mine better anyways. :) Oct 19 20:26:37 I've never seen one either Oct 19 20:26:49 GeneralAntilles: And to me, that's a VERY good thing. Oct 19 20:26:51 Ceron^: they are wacky things with a wifi adaptor inside a CF card. Oct 19 20:27:05 N900 camera rocks Oct 19 20:27:06 any device i searched for to go from wifi --> usb or bluetooth --> usb ... well they were mostly devices that wouldn't work the way you'd need them to work Oct 19 20:27:07 Ceron^: you simply leave the camera powered on, and it auto-uploads the pics Oct 19 20:27:08 5mp dual led flash autofocus carl zeiss optics, sounds good enough to me Oct 19 20:27:12 tigert: show off Oct 19 20:27:19 zerojay, two different ways of taking pictures. :) Oct 19 20:27:27 its not a slr but thats not a comparison that makes sense Oct 19 20:27:29 zerojay, sometimes the process is fun. Oct 19 20:27:32 different things Oct 19 20:27:33 GeneralAntilles: There's taking pictures and there's being completely fucking anal. Oct 19 20:27:35 tigert, exactly. Oct 19 20:27:41 zerojay, whatever. ;) Oct 19 20:27:42 but can you take pics in portrait mode (j/k) Oct 19 20:27:50 kynky, yes? Oct 19 20:27:55 the fun thing is the N900 is so easy Oct 19 20:28:00 It even knows when you're doing so. Oct 19 20:28:01 snap, post, done Oct 19 20:28:09 zerojay: rofl Oct 19 20:28:12 GeneralAntilles: My opinions are probably tainted by the fact that I can't leave the house with my wife without her forcing us to stop somewhere for an hour to take pictures. So fucking annoying. Oct 19 20:28:16 and its way over "good enough" Oct 19 20:28:22 tigert, you on the marketing team ? Oct 19 20:28:25 zerojay, it's a creative process. Oct 19 20:28:31 zerojay, surely you're familiar with those. :P Oct 19 20:28:38 kynky: nah Oct 19 20:28:38 kynky: I worked on the UI Oct 19 20:28:50 he's just the only person i've met who can take good shots w/ it Oct 19 20:28:50 theme Oct 19 20:28:57 but i am just loving it Oct 19 20:29:00 and when i say good, i mean really good Oct 19 20:29:03 GeneralAntilles: All I know is that she spends all her time on the creative process and I don't see her pictures being much better than mine. Oct 19 20:29:09 i have a slr too of course Oct 19 20:29:21 zerojay, it requires a certain appreciation for art, I guess. :D Oct 19 20:29:28 eean: you said you successfully built a kernel module Oct 19 20:29:31 how? Oct 19 20:29:38 I'm following http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Kernel_and_Debugging_Guide/Maemo_Kernel_Guide#Kernel_Guide Oct 19 20:29:40 both ways are correct Oct 19 20:29:46 but now sleep Oct 19 20:29:50 first, I don't believe in that EXTRAVERSION=-maemo2 crap Oct 19 20:29:50 nite! Oct 19 20:29:54 good night Oct 19 20:29:58 you will prob have a n900 on you more often than an slr, and the best shots are at unpredictable times Oct 19 20:30:08 modinfo on any module shipped in the image says the extraversion is -omap1, not -maemo2 Oct 19 20:30:23 second, the error I get (in dmesg) is no symbol version for struct_module Oct 19 20:30:26 kynky: the best shot is indeed taken with the camera you have with you Oct 19 20:30:29 so I guess my config must be wrong somehow Oct 19 20:30:31 no doubt Oct 19 20:30:45 Ceron^: http://www.cameratown.com/news/news.cfm/hurl/id|7298 Oct 19 20:30:50 kynky: 30-second camera warmup time doesn't work well with unpredictable times Oct 19 20:31:04 takes 30sec for n900 ? Oct 19 20:31:04 Ceron^: and pro cameras don't really use only CF anymore Oct 19 20:31:19 kynky: No way. Oct 19 20:31:30 kynky: yes, when the tablet is full of apps and swapping Oct 19 20:31:38 well maybe I'm a bit exaggerating Oct 19 20:31:40 lol Oct 19 20:31:42 let's say 20 seconds Oct 19 20:31:44 mgedmin, I'd say so. :roll: Oct 19 20:31:44 mgedmin: not really Oct 19 20:31:46 I've never had that happen, even when running Q3 at the saem time. Oct 19 20:31:52 I get about 3-4 seconds here. Oct 19 20:31:56 good for you Oct 19 20:31:59 From cover open to preview onscreen. Oct 19 20:32:01 * timeless_mbp wonders if camera is mlocked Oct 19 20:32:02 you must not use javascript-heavy web pages Oct 19 20:32:07 unless you are some supergeek running torrents and shit while taking photos Oct 19 20:32:10 mgedmin, Engadget, Slashdot, Talk? Oct 19 20:32:15 but & Oct 19 20:32:16 google reader Oct 19 20:32:19 (mobile version) Oct 19 20:32:26 mgedmin: Google Reader full version. Oct 19 20:32:31 tigert: Ah, I see you have discovered Transmission... Oct 19 20:32:34 2 seconds. tops. Oct 19 20:32:51 so far all we've established here is that the camera wakeup time varies really wildly Oct 19 20:32:54 tigert, rtorrent + screen ! Oct 19 20:33:05 eean: ayt? Oct 19 20:33:16 * mgedmin experimenting with "tethering" over adhoc wifi Oct 19 20:33:28 sadly the tablet scans every 10 minutes and drops my adhoc setup Oct 19 20:33:34 next drop coming in ~2 minutes Oct 19 20:33:39 Turn off the scan. Oct 19 20:33:56 more sadly, when I re-config my wifi settings, it's likely that the kernel will crash and the tablet will reboot Oct 19 20:33:56 hoping its trivial to recompile n900 kernel, will prob want to add nat support Oct 19 20:34:04 happened three times today so far Oct 19 20:34:06 kynky: I'm trying to do that now Oct 19 20:34:11 SpeedEvil: so im suppoused to use the N900 in ad-hoc mode with my camera wlan compact flash card Oct 19 20:34:11 no luck Oct 19 20:34:15 no clue what I'm doing wrong Oct 19 20:34:16 how does it even transfer the images :D Oct 19 20:34:20 mgedmin: What the hell are you doing to cause all this shit? lol Oct 19 20:34:27 * mgedmin is a Power User Oct 19 20:34:33 lol. Oct 19 20:34:34 my super-power is breaking stuff when I'm trying to use it Oct 19 20:34:41 You mean: Tablet Abuser Oct 19 20:34:47 have used gentoo for years, hope those skills pay off Oct 19 20:34:51 don't forget Power Oct 19 20:34:51 mgedmin, sounds like time for a reflash. ;) Oct 19 20:35:01 GeneralAntilles: That's what I'm thinking too. Oct 19 20:35:02 GeneralAntilles: He was at the Summit Oct 19 20:35:09 No flash image for him! Oct 19 20:35:09 hey, I haven't done any damage to the rootfs yet Oct 19 20:35:10 Ah, right, sucks for him. :P Oct 19 20:35:21 * mgedmin knocks on wood Oct 19 20:35:35 although why the hell do I suddenly have 27 megs free in /? Oct 19 20:35:41 I had 2 megs free five minutes ago Oct 19 20:35:51 2 megs? Oct 19 20:35:55 Yeah, REFLASH. Oct 19 20:36:15 does the n900 require reboots each day! Oct 19 20:36:28 Ceron^: No way. Oct 19 20:36:33 Ceron^, no. Oct 19 20:36:44 its not windows mobile :) Oct 19 20:36:49 Ceron^, well, except if you're trying to convince X to play nice with your rebinding attempts. ;) Oct 19 20:36:54 i so want a good gps navigator for the phone :\ Oct 19 20:37:01 il be lost without one Oct 19 20:37:01 just restart X instead then ? Oct 19 20:37:10 It's designed to run 24/7 indefinitely. Oct 19 20:37:12 all I did was mkdir /lib/modules/current/mg; mv MyDocs/*.ko /lib/modules/current/mg Oct 19 20:37:18 that should've decreased free space by a few kb, not increased it by 27 mb Oct 19 20:37:21 Ceron^, thought there was only ovi maps so far Oct 19 20:37:33 kynky, didn't work, so I figured I'd try different approaches. Oct 19 20:37:41 This whole HAL thing is irritating. Oct 19 20:37:47 mgedmin: That's not being a power user. That's just begging to break something when you have no access to flash images. Oct 19 20:37:48 kynky: He said "good"... Oct 19 20:37:53 Ceron^: it auto-uploads to configured wifi points, to the website. You can with some hackery get it to upload to your own linux server/n900 - the wifi would need to be an AP at that time. Oct 19 20:38:23 yeh wont work when im somewhere in the forest Oct 19 20:38:29 zerojay: oh, I'm careful ... most of the time Oct 19 20:38:31 and just want to send my pictures :D Oct 19 20:38:45 well if there are any good linux gps software, maybe maemo-optify might help ? Oct 19 20:39:09 kynky: i don't think the gps api is portable Oct 19 20:39:33 kynky: there arent any linux gps software Oct 19 20:39:37 that would be good... Oct 19 20:39:37 so no chance of googlemaps using that info ? Oct 19 20:39:58 ? Oct 19 20:40:04 google maps is a web page, typically Oct 19 20:40:13 maemo mapper worked on the n8x0 devices Oct 19 20:40:18 it's expected to work on n900's Oct 19 20:40:21 Ceron^, http://tuxmobil.org/linux_gps_navigation_applications.html , is all info i could find Oct 19 20:40:30 and i expect fennec to expose geolocation for google maps and friends Oct 19 20:41:19 kynky: yeh sucks doesnt it Oct 19 20:41:22 no good apps :P Oct 19 20:41:23 kynky: i'm sort of regretting you linked me to that :P Oct 19 20:41:39 timeless, on my windosmmobile, googlemaps works with gps on phone, and at work, friend had htc gero (android) working with googlmaps, gps, digital compass, layers, was impressive Oct 19 20:41:57 kynky: i ended up getting 3 of the damn things.. Oct 19 20:42:16 kynky: googlemaps in those cases is generally java Oct 19 20:42:21 we don't have a java stack Oct 19 20:42:28 w00t, no way, i shoulda done that, coulda made a killing on ebay Oct 19 20:42:33 w00t: 3 N900s? Oct 19 20:43:21 timeless_mbp, so no arm java stacks in debian-arm or gentoo-arm, that can be ported ? Oct 19 20:43:39 kynky: 2 are ours, 1 is for ebay yeah :P Oct 19 20:43:48 qwerty12_N810: yeah Oct 19 20:43:52 my bank account is regretting it.. Oct 19 20:43:54 * qwerty12_N810 whistles Oct 19 20:44:02 * w00t shakes fist at nokia Oct 19 20:44:06 lol Oct 19 20:44:27 why 3 ? Oct 19 20:44:31 * timeless_mbp shrugs Oct 19 20:44:35 why not 5 :) Oct 19 20:44:40 * timeless_mbp doesn't care about java today Oct 19 20:44:40 3 useless phones! Oct 19 20:44:55 kynky: not enough money, trust me, i considered it Oct 19 20:45:02 none of them has google maps with digital compass Oct 19 20:45:05 (especially when I accidentally typed '23' into the 'qty' field.) Oct 19 20:45:21 lol Oct 19 20:45:24 none of them has usb host Oct 19 20:45:35 none of them as 4" screen! Oct 19 20:45:41 none of them is running windows mobile! Oct 19 20:45:52 none of them matters to me? Oct 19 20:45:53 :) Oct 19 20:45:59 No Windows Mobile?! Oct 19 20:46:01 ive had windows mobile for years, it is really bad Oct 19 20:46:11 wm6.5 is a joke Oct 19 20:46:12 * qwerty12_N810 throws his loaned N900 against a wall Oct 19 20:46:18 yeah Oct 19 20:46:27 I thought Maemo was just Nokia's version :( Oct 19 20:46:30 qwerty12_N810: yeh! try to install windows mobile on it Oct 19 20:46:32 I hate wm with a passion after being forced to use it at gunpoint for the past 4 years Oct 19 20:46:34 even ms 9ballmer) think wm6.5 is a joke Oct 19 20:46:48 9=( Oct 19 20:48:43 he said wm7 shoulda been out ages ago, but i doubt wm7 will be any good . webos, maemo, android etc , will have progressed to far i bet. samsung/htc stick on a gui frontend to hide wm ugliness, but as soon as you use phone properly, ugliness comes through Oct 19 20:56:20 * timeless_mbp ponders Oct 19 20:56:24 GeneralAntilles: ping Oct 19 20:56:28 have you used the calendar app? Oct 19 20:56:34 Only once. Oct 19 20:57:01 not a fan? Oct 19 20:57:19 Don't need PIM, really. Oct 19 20:57:26 Set it up for the Summit, then didn't go. Oct 19 20:57:30 lol Oct 19 20:57:34 * timeless_mbp nods Oct 19 20:57:36 ok.. Oct 19 21:00:01 timeless_mbp: I'd be glad to test PIM for you ;p Oct 19 21:00:20 does anyone know if google is actually makinga a maemo compatible version :o Oct 19 21:00:27 of there gmaps software Oct 19 21:00:34 or google earth Oct 19 21:00:59 why would they? Oct 19 21:01:02 they compete with Maemo Oct 19 21:01:18 wtf? ping is perfect, yet ssh keeps dropping. iwconfig says power management is off. wtf? Oct 19 21:01:19 same reason they made one for windows mobile? Oct 19 21:01:42 mgedmin: is your IP changing? Oct 19 21:03:39 * crashanddie killed the audio out on his laptop :( Oct 19 21:04:28 so now I'm wondering if I should get an iMac or an external sound card Oct 19 21:05:04 live in silence Oct 19 21:05:10 no can do Oct 19 21:05:25 * JamieBennett loves my iMac :P Oct 19 21:05:38 JamieBennett, third person fail Oct 19 21:05:57 :P There is more that one of me in here Oct 19 21:06:05 my still doesn't make sense Oct 19 21:06:07 take your damn pills Oct 19 21:06:10 than Oct 19 21:06:12 * lbt wonders if people buy iMacs as socially acceptable ways to demonstrate submissive behaviour.... Oct 19 21:06:33 kinda like wearing shackles in public.... but white Oct 19 21:06:34 lbt: no a way to edit video acceptably Oct 19 21:06:35 lbt, nope, we just buy the suckers cuz they're cool, work well, and look pretty Oct 19 21:06:51 bitesized chunks are better than a bit massive all in one presentation arent they Oct 19 21:07:24 avidemux Oct 19 21:07:38 would it be possible to export my laptop sound to the n810/n900? Oct 19 21:07:54 pulseaudio? Oct 19 21:07:56 crashanddie, yep Oct 19 21:07:57 crashanddie, if you can find out how it would be cool Oct 19 21:07:57 talking of video, the guy who emailed me about last years coverage, man, this years by a 'professional company' is ... Oct 19 21:08:03 crashanddie: broken screen laptop on ebay, swap Oct 19 21:08:04 I did it once Oct 19 21:08:05 (the summit) Oct 19 21:08:14 SpeedEvil, it's the sound, not the screen Oct 19 21:08:21 whats broke Oct 19 21:08:22 is the video up? Oct 19 21:08:23 is it just crackly Oct 19 21:08:26 or totally gone Oct 19 21:08:26 crashanddie: yes, and if you swap the screen over, ... Oct 19 21:08:38 SpeedEvil, and if I swap the screen over, I still have no sound Oct 19 21:08:43 * SpeedEvil sighs. Oct 19 21:08:44 screen doesn't produce sound, IIRC Oct 19 21:09:02 crashanddie: if you swapped the screen over you'd have a broken screen *and* no sound Oct 19 21:09:05 crashanddie: ebay for a laptop with a broken screen, but the same model. Oct 19 21:09:11 crashanddie: Swap screens over. Oct 19 21:09:11 ali1234, aaaah, makes sense now Oct 19 21:09:15 and a working screen, and a laptop with working screen and no sound Oct 19 21:09:18 if you drop screen from height, it can make sound Oct 19 21:09:25 crashanddie, whats actually happened to sound Oct 19 21:09:29 SpeedEvil, it's just a sound connector, and you want me to replace the whole box? Oct 19 21:09:33 SpeedEvil, talk about recycling Oct 19 21:09:34 i mean... well you get it Oct 19 21:09:35 and if its totally off, how do you know its not just software Oct 19 21:09:37 kynky: unless you have the visual bell option on. Oct 19 21:09:41 lol Oct 19 21:09:51 Or just resolder the phone connector Oct 19 21:09:53 lcuk, opened up the laptop earlier Oct 19 21:10:02 (If it's that) Oct 19 21:10:03 yeah i open mine up normally too Oct 19 21:10:04 lcuk, this morning, in a hurry, long cables, clumsy feet Oct 19 21:10:07 cant use it without it open Oct 19 21:10:23 ahh you dropped it Oct 19 21:10:23 yanked, green thingy is split in half (inside the laptop) Oct 19 21:10:33 crashanddie: can you solder? Oct 19 21:10:40 SpeedEvil, electronics degree ;) Oct 19 21:10:49 crashanddie: can you solder? Oct 19 21:10:53 green thingy? Oct 19 21:11:01 i don't think they sell those at RS Oct 19 21:11:03 ali1234, output jack Oct 19 21:11:03 * SpeedEvil bemoans the quality of practical work in electronic degrees. Oct 19 21:11:22 crashanddie: there are relatively few pinouts and sizes for headphone jacks Oct 19 21:11:30 SpeedEvil, stop thinking you're a godsend to humanity, yes, some people have the same skills as you do Oct 19 21:11:32 So it's generally not too hard to find a matching Oct 19 21:11:43 crashanddie: And I wasn't being serious. Oct 19 21:12:26 wow Oct 19 21:12:26 crashanddie, did you do any soldering in electronics degree ? matlab had a good electronics package Oct 19 21:12:26 problem is, even though I can solder, this laptop apparently is unable to be opened completely without breaking off some plastic bits around the hinges Oct 19 21:12:29 unless you've managed to pull out some tracks, which can happen with SMD jacks. :/ Oct 19 21:12:39 stoked on the size of this channel :) Oct 19 21:12:45 * SpeedEvil hugs laptops with actual dissasembly manuals. Oct 19 21:12:45 SpeedEvil, it's what I'm suspecting, there's a nasty cut on the mobo Oct 19 21:12:48 <- ordered his n900 last week on amazon Oct 19 21:13:01 acidjazz, congrats, you'll have it after xmas Oct 19 21:13:02 so is the ship date still not known? Oct 19 21:13:05 crashanddie: lol Oct 19 21:13:14 crashanddie: I take it you've googled for dissasembly info? Oct 19 21:13:19 SpeedEvil, yup Oct 19 21:13:26 crashhanddie; should i have ordered it from nokia.com ? Oct 19 21:13:27 SpeedEvil, samsung r55, didn't find anything interesting Oct 19 21:13:43 acidjazz, I dunno, but you could start by using tab or making an effort when spelling my nickname Oct 19 21:13:44 crashanddie: is that a netbook - pre-netbook? Oct 19 21:13:45 Controversial but is anyone declining their developer offer? Oct 19 21:13:57 ali1234, exhibit a why the nickname parsing would be fail Oct 19 21:14:09 JamieBennett, which one? Oct 19 21:14:09 crashanddie: so you just basically think it wont ship anywhere near their estimated date Oct 19 21:14:40 u can get nokia n900 for £310 sim free from nokia store Oct 19 21:14:40 JamieBennett: In the UK it's actually not cheaper to take it up. (unless you have to keep your existing phone contract for some reason) Oct 19 21:14:40 acidjazz, dunno, I'm just a troll pissed off because of his lack of sound, don't mind me Oct 19 21:14:44 kynky: 310? From nokia? Oct 19 21:14:47 kynky: in the US? u lie Oct 19 21:14:48 crashanddie the one that offers the n900 for a 'cheaper phone' Oct 19 21:15:03 im in uk Oct 19 21:15:07 JamieBennett, I'm not in the conversation Oct 19 21:15:17 kynky: nokia.co.uk has it at 499 Oct 19 21:15:20 w00t, http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=351329&postcount=1326 Oct 19 21:15:24 crashanddie: i don't see it Oct 19 21:15:36 with discount codes it goes to £310 Oct 19 21:15:37 [22:13] crashhanddie; should i have ordered it from nokia.com ? Oct 19 21:15:44 Seems very expensive compared to the 99$/£ that is was before Oct 19 21:15:52 so you want to measure when people talk about other people? Oct 19 21:15:53 Pandora is cheaper and more open ;) Oct 19 21:15:58 kynky: ah - I see Oct 19 21:16:05 ali1234, nvmd Oct 19 21:16:28 Tentative delivery date: November 2009. Oct 19 21:16:34 US site says end of October Oct 19 21:16:43 i ordered mine a few hours ago, w00t ordered 3 a few hours ago, on same deal, told my friend at work, he ordered 1 too Oct 19 21:16:54 I dunno, i saw that post on the "did your n900 ship today?" thread about getting all the discount codes, but when they listed the price in pounds, i figured it wasn't worth much to me, just kept my amazon usa order Oct 19 21:17:12 looks like a scam Oct 19 21:17:23 kynky: damn, that is cheap Oct 19 21:17:27 mobilephonesdirect (which do sim free and contract deals) say end of october Oct 19 21:17:39 absolute: i have an amazon usa order as well Oct 19 21:17:40 i should order mine too Oct 19 21:17:48 i dont really care too much to save money i just want the phone now! :) Oct 19 21:17:55 me too! Oct 19 21:17:56 kynky: what would be killer would be if you could apply that discount, and get a kickback off the contract too Oct 19 21:18:05 SpeedEvil, i wasnt gonna get1, heard some1 here say discount codes, was straight onto google Oct 19 21:18:08 aSIMULAtor: You don't get to keep your current one? :\ Oct 19 21:18:13 hehe yeah i do Oct 19 21:18:18 Ah, lol Oct 19 21:18:19 i'm just screwing around Oct 19 21:18:23 :p Oct 19 21:18:28 lmao Oct 19 21:18:47 lcuk, I posted an answer to my question a year and a half ago: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=19059 Oct 19 21:18:49 aSIMULAtor: so Oct 19 21:18:56 you wanted a tool to deal w/ string hunting, right? Oct 19 21:19:03 did i? Oct 19 21:19:06 ok where is it Oct 19 21:19:07 SpeedEvil, nothing stoppig you from say getting a contract for 18months with free n97, and then sell n97 on ebay Oct 19 21:19:13 talk about brainfuck Oct 19 21:19:15 i still haven't downloaded what u told me to download Oct 19 21:19:26 kynky: hmm. Oct 19 21:19:35 are u going to work tomorrow timeless Oct 19 21:19:42 yep Oct 19 21:19:50 kynky: problem with that route is phones are the number one thing fraudsters are going for on ebay Oct 19 21:19:56 you haven't downloaded it?! Oct 19 21:19:59 timeless_mbp: Send it my way, too; if I'm to fix Zenity, something that actually uses it would help :) Oct 19 21:20:03 stop by my desk help me with this string download thing cause i lost the info when i reconnected shell/irc here Oct 19 21:20:04 no i haven't Oct 19 21:20:09 don't killl me! Oct 19 21:20:33 SpeedEvil, yeah heard that too, but wanna sell my touch pro on ebay, otherwise will have to sell on cex or phonebank etc Oct 19 21:20:55 why not just..throw the touch pro somewhere Oct 19 21:20:57 like out the window Oct 19 21:20:58 or Oct 19 21:21:02 at a stupid person Oct 19 21:21:03 lol Oct 19 21:21:22 they're big phones Oct 19 21:21:29 aSIMULAtur: so, install the package now :) Oct 19 21:21:34 bout same size as n900 Oct 19 21:22:07 is it? for some reason the n900 seems so much smaller Oct 19 21:22:14 i guess cause it's more awesomenerrenrnssess Oct 19 21:22:19 aSIMULAtur / qwerty12_N810 : the last item in the dialog lets you do string work Oct 19 21:22:28 please note that it takes a really long time to build the database Oct 19 21:22:45 so don't be surprised once you ask for Advanced options that it spins for a long time before you get the next screen Oct 19 21:23:04 once you're there though, you can do lots of things ... just don't cancel out of the main menu :) Oct 19 21:23:21 well i'm going to download this tomorrow, timestamp noted Oct 19 21:23:26 cause it's time for sleep Oct 19 21:24:02 timeless: do u sleep? Oct 19 21:24:03 good night Oct 19 21:24:11 yes, between 2am and 10am or so :) Oct 19 21:24:27 http://europe.nokia.com/microsites/discount-twitter Oct 19 21:24:29 how do u manage Oct 19 21:24:36 that's 8hrs! Oct 19 21:25:11 actually now that i think of it Oct 19 21:25:13 u get more sleep than i do :P Oct 19 21:25:18 heh Oct 19 21:25:27 i average 6.5-7 hrs Oct 19 21:26:05 ok then...good nite see you later Oct 19 21:26:08 Why do I suddenly have two Others in h-a-m? Oct 19 21:26:23 GeneralAntilles: is this my strings? Oct 19 21:26:44 timeless_mbp, no, haven't touched the strings since you gave me the tar package. Oct 19 21:26:50 ah Oct 19 21:27:06 i've switched to having an almost proper package Oct 19 21:27:20 Where is it? Oct 19 21:28:19 so how is the maemo sdk? is it solid and easy to install/get into ? Oct 19 21:29:12 it supports a lot of languages Oct 19 21:29:39 hey! out amsterdam image has kernel 2.6.28-20094102+0m5, the maemo 5 sdk has kernel sources for 2.6.28-20093908+0m5 Oct 19 21:29:58 mgedmin: The SDK repo is way out of date Oct 19 21:30:00 that probably explains why my iptable_nat.ko gets the symbol version mismatch Oct 19 21:30:10 so where do I get the right kernel sources? Oct 19 21:30:22 please don't tell me to send a written request to nokia Oct 19 21:30:29 Good question... Oct 19 21:31:51 i find no flasher images yet Oct 19 21:33:18 Haven't been released yet. Oct 19 21:33:50 * mgedmin sighs Oct 19 21:34:00 esd hack doesn't work on n900 :( Oct 19 21:34:17 just hack the module versioning Oct 19 21:34:24 i doubt anything got changed in netfilter Oct 19 21:34:42 can't be bothered Oct 19 21:34:46 will just do it on the n810 Oct 19 21:37:02 crashanddie, thats cos esd isnt on n900 i dont think Oct 19 21:37:19 lcuk, probably pulseaudio interfering Oct 19 21:37:30 lcuk2, but even after killing pulseaudio, esd doesn't take over Oct 19 21:39:33 id like to know how hildon-application-manager lists the instaled applications. Oct 19 21:40:22 paulo_ouriques: it's open source Oct 19 21:40:25 you could read it Oct 19 21:40:39 i think that is not with dpkg Oct 19 21:40:41 paulo_ouriques: do you want maemo4 or maemo5 ? Oct 19 21:40:43 paulo_ouriques, my guess, it makes a virtual list and tells gtk to draw them Oct 19 21:40:59 godfather 1 is great Oct 19 21:41:47 how i do it with ssh? Oct 19 21:42:03 my Internet Connection Sharing thread on maemo-users@ resembles a monologue Oct 19 21:42:11 paulo_ouriques, do you want the installed applications or available ones? Oct 19 21:42:23 paulo_ouriques: it is simplyl a frontend for apt and dpkg Oct 19 21:42:23 installed Oct 19 21:42:24 it uses them Oct 19 21:42:31 paulo_ouriques, dpkg -l? Oct 19 21:42:31 crashanddie_: why would you want to replace pulseaudio with esd? Oct 19 21:42:51 mgedmin: old obsolete technology is great :! Oct 19 21:43:01 haha Oct 19 21:43:06 paulo_ouriques, dpkg --get-selection Oct 19 21:43:09 paulo_ouriques, dpkg --get-selections Oct 19 21:43:20 for more human-friendly output dpkg -l Oct 19 21:43:32 mgedmin, you're late :P Oct 19 21:43:33 for more human-friendly output that doesn't truncate package names arbitrarily, dpkg -l|cat Oct 19 21:43:48 why pipe it into cat? Oct 19 21:43:55 absolute, try it Oct 19 21:44:06 dpkg will do sizing to terminal width otherwise Oct 19 21:44:12 absolute: because dpkg checks if stdout is a tty and if so truncates it to fit $COLUMNS Oct 19 21:44:13 which is usually annoying Oct 19 21:44:22 ooooooh ok Oct 19 21:44:29 that makes sense Oct 19 21:44:35 that's a neat trick Oct 19 21:44:38 i'mma remember that Oct 19 21:44:53 * mgedmin has this little alias list-installed-packages=dpkg-query -W --showformat '${STATUS} ${PACKAGE}=${VERSION}\n'|grep ' installed '|cut -d ' ' -f 4- Oct 19 21:45:10 That is useful indeed, thanks mgedmin Oct 19 21:45:29 needs dpkg-query which comes from I don't remember where Oct 19 21:45:39 I use it to compare package versions on two different machines Oct 19 21:45:51 for more casual use the =${VERSION} ought to be omitted Oct 19 21:46:24 but using dpkg -- get-selection i have all of installed app, and i want only the hildon-application-manager list. Oct 19 21:46:48 paulo_ouriques: filter those that are from section: user/* Oct 19 21:46:54 paulo_ouriques, it's based on the user/ section Oct 19 21:46:55 you could do that with dpkg-query, I suppose Oct 19 21:47:34 * qwerty12_N810 begins installing libgtk2.0-dev on the N900. Yay for the device having newer components than the SDK! Oct 19 21:47:40 how i filter it? Oct 19 21:47:44 * mgedmin sighs at the incredible disk-grinding slowness of dpkg -S Oct 19 21:47:55 oh, cool, dpkg-query is part of dpkg Oct 19 21:48:01 I thought it was some perl addon Oct 19 21:48:57 evening all Oct 19 21:49:39 o/ lardman Oct 19 21:50:33 here goes ... Oct 19 21:50:42 hey crashanddie_, how's Python? Oct 19 21:50:57 if I suddenly drop off irc (after the obligatory 5 minute timeout), means insmod iptable_nat.ko b0rked my device Oct 19 21:50:58 * lardman covers his ears and wonders what mgedmin is doing.... Oct 19 21:51:02 hey lardman \o Oct 19 21:51:05 ah :) Oct 19 21:51:10 hi lcuk2 Oct 19 21:51:23 lardman, going Oct 19 21:51:23 yay Unknown symbol in module Oct 19 21:51:24 hows you today Oct 19 21:51:30 now all I need is to figure out the right order Oct 19 21:51:45 lcuk2: good, done some exercise, now drinking wine Oct 19 21:52:21 how can you switch modes in sb2? it keeps saying: SB2: apt-get wrapper: Operation denied in this mode (devel) Oct 19 21:52:41 guysoft42: See why I prefer SB1? :) Oct 19 21:52:49 qwerty12_N810, yes yes, i know Oct 19 21:52:56 qwerty12_N810, i think its with -m Oct 19 21:54:08 lardman, wine is good Oct 19 21:57:13 okay, this particular kernel panic was my fault Oct 19 21:58:32 heh Oct 19 21:59:00 hi zerojayN900 Oct 19 21:59:36 How i filter the output of dpkg --get-selections to user/*? Oct 19 21:59:50 grep the output? Oct 19 21:59:59 yos Oct 19 22:00:03 *yes Oct 19 22:00:12 --selections doesn't show sections Oct 19 22:00:21 dpkg-query is a better choice Oct 19 22:00:41 paulo_ouriques: read the manual page of dpkg-query and craft the appropriate query Oct 19 22:00:52 match on status being installed and on section starting with user/ Oct 19 22:00:59 * qwerty12_N810 points out that maemo-list-user-packages exists for exactly that purpose Oct 19 22:01:02 ie "man dpkg-query" Oct 19 22:01:11 * lardman wonders where he got a second N810/N900 cable from Oct 19 22:01:22 i'll be do it, thanks. Oct 19 22:01:23 qwerty12_N810: bingo! Oct 19 22:02:01 but does it show available or installed packages? Oct 19 22:02:04 installed, looks like Oct 19 22:02:18 It's a script, go edit it :p Oct 19 22:02:48 hey qwerty12_N810, how are you? Oct 19 22:02:50 hehe, i don't like relying too heavily on distro-specific stuff personally Oct 19 22:02:58 and it does use dpkg-query, proving that I was right by suggesting that tool Oct 19 22:03:13 but definitely worth checking out the commands in the script Oct 19 22:03:18 to know how to do it across distros Oct 19 22:03:19 Hiya, lardman, I'm good thanks, how about you? Oct 19 22:03:25 hey, absolute, the "user/" prefix for sections *is* distro-specific stuff Oct 19 22:03:28 only maemo does that Oct 19 22:03:30 afaik Oct 19 22:03:40 qwerty12_N810: not bad thanks Oct 19 22:04:03 Gotten libdmtx in -devel yet? Oct 19 22:04:03 yeah, i suppose that part is true Oct 19 22:05:34 i just mean, its advantageous to understand the underlying commands because that can be re-used elsewhere Oct 19 22:06:23 qwerty12_N810: I think so, should be there now Oct 19 22:06:31 that's a good attitude to have Oct 19 22:07:02 lardman: Cool, get lardcode there and you'll save RST38h from banging his head :p Oct 19 22:08:31 qwerty12_N810: will do, am just splitting the code up into diablo/N8x0 and fremantle/n900 specific so I can add the libgdigicam and fremantle ui stuff Oct 19 22:08:48 without too many #ifdefs that is Oct 19 22:09:14 Is libgdigicam even in the SDK repository? I saw it on gitorious, at least... Oct 19 22:09:28 anyone know if promiscuous mode is supported on maemo5? Oct 19 22:09:36 or well, the driver for wifi in the n900? Oct 19 22:09:37 master mode isn't Oct 19 22:09:57 :D Oct 19 22:10:03 qwerty12_N810: no idea, bridges and crossing when we get to them come to mind ;) Oct 19 22:10:14 lardman, did you see the 3 streams available for the camera Oct 19 22:10:25 wut Oct 19 22:10:26 lardman: hey Oct 19 22:10:26 show Oct 19 22:10:27 crashanddie_: yeah, write a maemo version of driftnet :) Oct 19 22:10:28 lardman: Good strategy... Oct 19 22:10:28 viewfinder, cam, movie Oct 19 22:10:32 fyi apt-cache search libgdigicam finds 0 results in the fremantle sdk Oct 19 22:10:34 lcuk: yep thanks Oct 19 22:10:43 Thanks, mgedmin_ Oct 19 22:11:06 lardman, so that means we are taking full res pics at the moment Oct 19 22:11:21 for whoever organises the next summit, have a PC running driftnet somewhere, would be cool :) Oct 19 22:11:29 which explains the difference between rendering on barcode and rendering on the viewfinder Oct 19 22:11:38 lcuk: yeah, but I use a caps to scale them down Oct 19 22:11:40 heh lardman Oct 19 22:11:47 :) Oct 19 22:11:53 driftnet? Oct 19 22:11:55 lardman: With someone accessing goatse? Oct 19 22:11:58 lardman, driftnet is lame :P Oct 19 22:11:59 ~google ;) Oct 19 22:12:12 lardman, yeah - but the viewfinder is more realtime oriented Oct 19 22:12:13 crashanddie_: but your app will be better.... ;p Oct 19 22:12:16 without scaling back down Oct 19 22:12:26 lcuk: yep, would make more sense to use that Oct 19 22:12:27 note the difference in refresh rate and wobblyness Oct 19 22:12:45 lardman, I'll make renderman proud Oct 19 22:12:49 * mgedmin_ is keeping his n900 pretty warm Oct 19 22:12:52 :) Oct 19 22:13:04 mgedmin_: wifi power saving off...? Oct 19 22:13:12 keep the whole room warm that way Oct 19 22:13:19 charger on + lots of usage Oct 19 22:13:29 and yeah, the room could use some heating Oct 19 22:14:05 I hear foreplay works well if you're looking for promiscuous mode :-x Oct 19 22:14:16 bada-boom! Oct 19 22:14:23 mgedmin_, play videos of a warm open fire Oct 19 22:15:44 extensions/libipt_string.c:208: error: 'struct xt_string_info' has no member named 'invert' Oct 19 22:15:53 no iptables userspace for me :( Oct 19 22:16:05 defeated at both fronts :( Oct 19 22:16:27 will have to get my internet fix through five dirty socks ... Oct 19 22:17:37 * lardman is slightly concerned for mgedmin_ Oct 19 22:18:01 mgedmin_: i suggest using socks proxy over openssh Oct 19 22:18:09 * qwerty12_N810 's router problems pale in comparison Oct 19 22:18:16 * w00t seriously cannot wait. Oct 19 22:18:18 ali1234: helloo? how do you think I'm talking to you here? Oct 19 22:18:30 well there you go :) Oct 19 22:18:35 socks suck Oct 19 22:18:53 the LD_PRELOAD based wrapper doesn't work in scratchbox for one Oct 19 22:19:07 I have to apt-get --print-uris, then wget them to the right places Oct 19 22:19:10 pain Oct 19 22:19:19 not to mention reconfiguring the browser every time I switch nets Oct 19 22:19:26 well, that's scratchbox's fault Oct 19 22:23:16 how much were the developer discounted n900's Oct 19 22:24:37 $370 Oct 19 22:24:52 ty for that apt-get --print-uris tip Oct 19 22:24:59 0r around €300 for more European countries. Oct 19 22:25:21 GAN900, more european than the US? Oct 19 22:25:35 mgedmin_: why don't you use pc suite mode on usb? Oct 19 22:25:45 GAN900, isn't that like the article about obama being the most european president ever, and obama being the least european president ever? Oct 19 22:25:54 ali1234: cables are for hobos Oct 19 22:26:27 as one of my facebook friends recently said to me Oct 19 22:27:03 mgedmin_, wireless is for cancer Oct 19 22:27:10 yummy Oct 19 22:27:36 get on the internet while keeping your coffee warm at the same time! Oct 19 22:28:15 You won't believe how many bums I see with a trail of Cat5 behind them. Oct 19 22:29:12 I'm rather hungry, rather fancy some bacon Oct 19 22:29:24 i had to give the cats bacon Oct 19 22:29:52 we had no catfood and i was afraid they would start gnawing on my leg in the night Oct 19 22:29:56 what a waste Oct 19 22:29:56 ! Oct 19 22:30:07 I'd have shot them instead of wasting bacon Oct 19 22:30:11 but I don't like cats Oct 19 22:30:15 and I do like bacon Oct 19 22:30:28 so I may alienate some people here now :) Oct 19 22:30:40 haha Oct 19 22:30:57 you could even make little rashers out of the cats themselves :O Oct 19 22:31:09 * mgedmin_ likes cats and thinks bacon is inedible Oct 19 22:31:22 * lcuk has 3 cats :) Oct 19 22:31:27 and likes to live Oct 19 22:31:34 so it was either me or the bacon Oct 19 22:31:41 lol Oct 19 22:32:06 hmm, no bacon in the fridge, am tucking into a nearly out-of-date bag of "wild rocket" Oct 19 22:32:39 lardman, as long as its not turned to mush it cant be out of date Oct 19 22:32:49 just start worrying when it starts growing again Oct 19 22:32:50 70g "wild rocket" ~= 1x sniff of bacon Oct 19 22:33:00 hah Oct 19 22:33:14 yeah growing and turning purple Oct 19 22:33:17 http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N900.php Oct 19 22:33:25 404! Oct 19 22:33:29 :) Oct 19 22:34:08 what is wild rocket anyway Oct 19 22:34:27 HMM Oct 19 22:34:42 Anyone out there agree with my assessment? - http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=33131&goto=newpost Oct 19 22:35:11 * SpeedEvil notices that on some cashback websites, the first year of a phone is actually free, with 1G of phone per month, and moderate (300 mins) per month Oct 19 22:35:12 pupnik: peppery type of salad leaf Oct 19 22:35:15 (uk) Oct 19 22:35:37 Isn't rocket a cultivar - it's not a naturally occuring lettuce? Oct 19 22:36:12 SpeedEvil, for n900? where ? Oct 19 22:36:23 tcl/tk on a n810? not a good idea Oct 19 22:36:30 has anyone counted how many ppl will brick their phones @1st week after official release Oct 19 22:36:35 :-) Oct 19 22:36:39 SpeedEvil: no idea Oct 19 22:37:01 mgedmin_: what the compiling it? Oct 19 22:37:08 kynky: no - but Oct 19 22:37:16 ^ zerojay's link Oct 19 22:37:25 mgedmin_: tcl/tk is a bad idea in ANY case anyways. Oct 19 22:37:32 kynky: http://www.onecompare.com/buy-a-mobile-phone/best-mobile-phone-deals.asp?skn=moneysavingexpert&SearchID=1220181&manufacturer=&model= - I don't know if this works for you Oct 19 22:37:51 kynky: I selected a nokia 1208 - with the assumption that I'd pick it on ebay Oct 19 22:37:56 kynky: sell it Oct 19 22:38:04 zerojay, tk is nice Oct 19 22:38:42 tkinter has the least dependencies of any python gui library Oct 19 22:38:56 and features....? Oct 19 22:39:11 kynky: Combi £25 plus web n walk promo 12 Month Contract - and you get most of the line rental back in 5 equal cheques. Oct 19 22:39:26 features wise it is very basic, that also makes it easy to learn Oct 19 22:39:39 sweet, just make sure you dont get caught out Oct 19 22:39:55 kynky: that's the big problem, yes Oct 19 22:39:56 * mgedmin_ wonders about the size of people who bash tcl/tk but love git Oct 19 22:40:06 * mgedmin_ also wonders about their views on gitk Oct 19 22:40:49 hahaha @ zerojay 's link Oct 19 22:41:09 I hate tcl/Tk and think the world should be moving to wxwidgets or, failing that, qt/gtk but i also think that gitk could use a serious UI improvement. It *looks* like it's written in Tk ;-) Oct 19 22:41:20 tk supports native widgets now, and is only official toolkit for ruby, and tk support is there for practically every language, and works with lots of OSes Oct 19 22:41:21 I wouldn't wish tcl/tk on my worst enemy. Oct 19 22:41:30 wxwidgets is horrible horrible programming environment Oct 19 22:41:39 ali1234: It's, um, odd... Oct 19 22:41:44 but I wouldn't say horrible. Oct 19 22:41:52 zerojay: because i'm in a bit of a meta mood, thanks for the thanks! Oct 19 22:41:55 qt is odd. qx is horrible. Oct 19 22:41:55 ;) Oct 19 22:41:56 it takes a bit of getting used to, but once you are I actually think it's ok. Oct 19 22:42:24 I'm always amazed at how impossible people make GUI languages. Have you ever seen one that doesn't suck? Oct 19 22:42:29 fltk2 looks good Oct 19 22:42:33 but gtk and qt are the big2 Oct 19 22:42:57 tkinter doesn't suck, but that might be just cos of python hiding all the suckyness Oct 19 22:43:00 everything has rough edges, hardaker2 Oct 19 22:43:04 but yeah, most gui toolkits are a nightmare Oct 19 22:43:08 All those smaller UI languages just end up being horrible dependency hells with random amounts of breakage. Oct 19 22:43:17 w00t: no, it more has to do by design. by design they're a pain to use. Oct 19 22:43:19 it's also important to realise that different people have different needs and workflows Oct 19 22:43:25 nah Oct 19 22:43:34 nobody sets out to make something a pain in the ass :p Oct 19 22:43:41 well, unless they are masochists Oct 19 22:43:51 if ui was easy, lots of ppl would be out of job, but now a big push to webapps at the mo Oct 19 22:43:59 for 99% of the GUI stuff you need you shouldn't have to learn what a packer even is. It should be the default to be able to create simple windows. Oct 19 22:44:40 hardaker2: the UI doesn't know that you want stuff top left aligned with the button on the right hand side of the textbox Oct 19 22:44:48 you need to tell it that Oct 19 22:44:58 but declarative UI (for example) or qt creator makes that process a lot easier anyway Oct 19 22:45:01 actually, the web shows you that it's simplicity in language is what has helped it the most.
. *that* is how simple everything should be in it's default form. Oct 19 22:45:08 * lcuk is pleased i finally found the proper way to show liqbase engine Oct 19 22:45:29 glade? althoughive never used it Oct 19 22:45:31 lol https://www.google.com/voice/fm/04807385505702370642/AHwOX_CFSs6rxsKN6d5wEznZyECtNntLn-O39x8W0KU3lE7CrAXz1IOHsoIn1Ir2q0xuWyAQpl1ssu6vW3Zfbx19y_0omVoyu-eJ5icOdpiSj2okVIYghiJdCsBX0KTaS425DnP6BVw5g2PhNCKiRa2d5FXytb59BA Oct 19 22:45:39 hardaker2: http://labs.trolltech.com/blogs/2009/05/13/qt-declarative-ui/ Oct 19 22:45:49 * lcuk uses visual basic to create form layouts on maemo Oct 19 22:45:49 hardaker2: that's where xml dialogs come into it Oct 19 22:45:59 phew, managed to split code up Oct 19 22:46:05 lcuk: never tried creator? Oct 19 22:46:15 w00t, creator doesnt help me today Oct 19 22:46:16 it's pretty easy after a few minutes of adapting Oct 19 22:46:21 it WILL Oct 19 22:46:24 hm Oct 19 22:46:24 hardaker2, i just hate the javascript, and browser inconsistencies, but jquery does help Oct 19 22:46:24 why? Oct 19 22:46:25 but it just doesnt now Oct 19 22:46:31 w00t: interesting. Though, it should be the default not the extension :-) Oct 19 22:46:36 ok, look at this Oct 19 22:46:37 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hGUKICDeok Oct 19 22:46:39 hardaker2: it's new, give it time Oct 19 22:46:46 the presentation i fly through Oct 19 22:46:50 kynky: I hear ya on the JS issues and stuff... Oct 19 22:46:52 is just a visual basic project Oct 19 22:47:24 lcuk: cheating! :P Oct 19 22:47:28 no Oct 19 22:47:31 no cheating Oct 19 22:47:34 oh yay a toolkit flame Oct 19 22:47:36 100% dynamic load and use Oct 19 22:47:47 reads .vbp Oct 19 22:47:51 I'm yanking your chain anyway ;) Oct 19 22:47:52 reads the .frm Oct 19 22:47:55 mgedmin_: that was a flame? Oct 19 22:47:56 shows em Oct 19 22:48:04 my god, where have you been for the real flamewars Oct 19 22:48:05 :P Oct 19 22:48:14 * hardaker2 puts down the very small match. Oct 19 22:48:15 i do agree with zerojay , tcl is crazy :) Oct 19 22:48:18 * w00t mentions that emacs sucks and casually wanders off Oct 19 22:48:19 w00t, have you seen the recursion on the engine ;) Oct 19 22:48:26 * lardman whips out some bottles and rags Oct 19 22:48:27 and the speed Oct 19 22:50:10 In the past, people used to get stuck in wells. Oct 19 22:50:17 Today, people get stuck in... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCHteZnFA3E Oct 19 22:50:23 w00t, i would like to make a qt widget using liqcell as its core ;) Oct 19 22:50:57 it'd be quite possible from looking at the video Oct 19 22:51:04 scale items in a graphicsscene Oct 19 22:51:35 I was playing with similar tricks earlier for qmantle's appswitcher too Oct 19 22:51:39 why scale? Oct 19 22:51:49 the same widget might be shown on screen at any one time in more than one size Oct 19 22:51:57 sure, and I'm sure you can do that Oct 19 22:52:17 but you do already have the issue of going from having a huge overview of different bits and pieces to zooming in on one widget, yes? Oct 19 22:52:29 no Oct 19 22:52:34 no scaling going on Oct 19 22:52:40 uh Oct 19 22:52:50 so you're not zooming in to look at the widget? Oct 19 22:52:51 the engine just says "render you (800,480) into this space here (100,100) Oct 19 22:52:58 that's exactly what scaling is Oct 19 22:53:03 and it just always does the best it can Oct 19 22:53:08 it doesnt scale the widget Oct 19 22:53:11 it just draws it as required Oct 19 22:53:24 no cos scaling implied resize signals Oct 19 22:54:25 no, it doesn't Oct 19 22:54:32 it's the graphical item you're scaling Oct 19 22:54:33 not the widget Oct 19 22:54:51 i gotta run off to bed anyhow Oct 19 22:54:56 work tomorrow :-( Oct 19 22:55:01 :( Oct 19 22:55:05 * lcuk wishes he was too Oct 19 22:55:08 gnite Oct 19 22:55:15 hit me up tomorrow, we can talk more then Oct 19 22:55:26 * lcuk nods Oct 19 22:55:30 this works well on 8x0 Oct 19 23:07:17 hay xnt14 :) Oct 19 23:07:27 hi :) Oct 19 23:08:10 http://b-man.xceleo.org/images/fremantle :) Oct 19 23:08:33 hurray Oct 19 23:08:39 ??? Oct 19 23:09:08 nice b-man17 Oct 19 23:09:16 thanks :) Oct 19 23:09:18 awesome :) Oct 19 23:09:45 i still need to figure out how i can add/delete items :( Oct 19 23:10:09 somehow my experiments replacing bootsplash on n810 failed Oct 19 23:10:16 i would see it for an instant before desktop Oct 19 23:19:46 mmmm n810 talk :) Oct 19 23:22:33 * lcuk likes n810 Oct 19 23:23:31 b-man17: did you make that? Oct 19 23:25:05 yu Oct 19 23:25:08 *yup Oct 19 23:26:05 (it´s still in early development) Oct 19 23:29:50 looks nice Oct 19 23:29:51 nice b-man17 :) Oct 19 23:29:55 great start Oct 19 23:30:01 have you posted on tmo? Oct 19 23:30:10 tmo? Oct 19 23:30:13 tmobile Oct 19 23:30:15 im sure people will jump on board Oct 19 23:30:21 theres a lot of interest in the bootsplash Oct 19 23:30:25 talk.maemo.org Oct 19 23:30:37 they will help you to fill in the blanks Oct 19 23:30:38 yup :) Oct 19 23:30:44 thread? Oct 19 23:30:46 * b-man17 grabs the link... Oct 19 23:30:50 :) Oct 19 23:31:13 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=33000 Oct 19 23:31:14 :) Oct 19 23:34:06 b-man17, great stuff :D Oct 19 23:34:51 thanks :D Oct 19 23:37:19 lcuk: btw, is the source for http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2r8JJkDv7hw&feature=related publicly available? Oct 19 23:37:39 i believe it is Oct 19 23:37:47 the controller is already available had been for ages Oct 19 23:38:03 b-man17: how long is a bootsplash usually? Oct 19 23:38:35 as long as the video Oct 19 23:38:44 just dont be silly Oct 19 23:38:51 we dont know if theres any way to interupt it Oct 19 23:39:01 actually b-man17 .... Oct 19 23:39:11 might be an idea to put an upper limit just on filesize Oct 19 23:39:15 to prevent that Oct 19 23:39:25 no point in opening full vid Oct 19 23:39:36 just to stop random "oops i have to play a dvd before booting" Oct 19 23:39:37 true Oct 19 23:39:43 lol Oct 19 23:40:15 would be interesting ploy from the media executives in hollywood Oct 19 23:40:23 "omg they HAVE to watch it now!!!! Oct 19 23:41:12 hmm Oct 19 23:41:21 we could do virtual graffitti Oct 19 23:41:36 agps + orientation and device learns orientation of a wall Oct 19 23:41:49 lcuk: the avi´s arn´t any longer than this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuBHDnpSFE0 ;) Oct 19 23:41:50 you could leave messages for people scrawled on fridges, desktops, walls Oct 19 23:42:00 and they would have to hold device up to it to read it Oct 19 23:42:17 except n900 doesn't have a compass Oct 19 23:42:36 gps can fit that (kinda) Oct 19 23:42:46 close enough :) Oct 19 23:42:51 pupnik, cheap enough to just but simple n800/smartq devices up and use liqbase Oct 19 23:42:59 if you really need a compass, you're not gonna be relying on a phone anyways Oct 19 23:43:01 put Oct 19 23:43:46 I'm buying a military surplus lensatic compass on friday :) Oct 19 23:43:47 lcuk, yea i understand its any length you want (unless he puts a filesize cap) Oct 19 23:43:56 but like how long is the generic nokia one <<< doesnt have a Nxxx Oct 19 23:44:06 not long Oct 19 23:44:08 absolute: nice Oct 19 23:44:34 but i have to wonder if i replace it with a 1 frame video, will it boot quicker? (like that longstanding bug with kde startup sound) Oct 19 23:45:02 military surplus is good for random outdoorsy things Oct 19 23:45:11 ali1234, it may do Oct 19 23:45:14 just disable all Oct 19 23:45:17 will be better Oct 19 23:45:47 if the device can avoid reading and rendering that video - it will obviously finish all its tasks quicker than if it was working Oct 19 23:45:57 obviously Oct 19 23:46:02 whether the boot will appear to be quicker is another matter Oct 19 23:46:04 but does it even play it asynchronously? Oct 19 23:46:14 or whether it will just sit idle expecting something Oct 19 23:46:21 dunno Oct 19 23:46:24 or does it stop doing everything else for the duration of that clip? Oct 19 23:46:35 it might be at a point in the normal boot sequence where theres a pause anyway Oct 19 23:46:46 * lcuk shrugs Oct 19 23:47:04 there's never a pause when booting on arm, at least there should not be Oct 19 23:47:36 * b-man17 gives in and and posts another GTK related question on talk.maemo.org >< Oct 19 23:48:52 (still trying to figure out how to add/remove elements) Oct 19 23:49:14 in a selection Oct 19 23:55:42 night all Oct 19 23:56:36 * luke-jr learned something new today: Oct 19 23:56:42 USA does not have SIM cards period :/ Oct 19 23:57:21 period? Oct 19 23:57:45 wtf? Oct 19 23:57:48 says who Oct 19 23:58:33 unless this is a fake sim card, you've been lied to Oct 19 23:58:43 the one place I'd expect to carry them, WalMart, has none Oct 19 23:59:23 my phone definitely has a sim card in it... i got this one from cingular before at&t bought them out Oct 20 00:00:57 everything I thought was a SIM card was just a piece of plastic with an "activation code" on it Oct 20 00:03:38 hehe, prepaid phone cards Oct 20 00:03:42 SIM-cards is a GSM thing Oct 20 00:04:33 that lets you auth against a GSM network, and it has some storage for contacts Oct 20 00:05:04 luke-jr, hi Oct 20 00:08:11 zash: i understand, but what luke-jr was looking at in the wal-mart were likely pre-paid phone cards Oct 20 00:09:45 zerojay, remembered tonight! Oct 20 00:13:41 i didnt GAN900 Oct 20 00:13:44 whats happening tonight? Oct 20 00:16:26 I remembered to photograph my dinner for Maemo EATS! on Flickr. Oct 20 00:20:22 lcuk: hi Oct 20 00:28:39 yay i have octave compiling on the sdk right now :) Oct 20 00:30:19 is the wiki the best place to document how i installed it for others? Oct 20 00:31:07 GAN900: Me too. :D Oct 20 00:31:26 luke-jr: US definitely has SIM cards. Oct 20 00:35:32 zerojay: where? Oct 20 00:36:22 luke-jr: Almost any phone company will sell you one for $25. Oct 20 00:36:33 wtf? Oct 20 00:36:39 why would you pay for a SIM card? Oct 20 00:36:58 You're the one that wants one, so you tell me. Oct 20 00:37:03 isn't it just a piece of plastic with a bit of electronics that enables them to sell you minutes? Oct 20 00:37:08 Yep. Oct 20 00:37:26 I was expecting to walk into WalMart, pick up a SIM card, and load $5 onto it. Oct 20 00:37:55 My company had to pay $30/SIM for them... and we had maybe 40 of them... 20 of them were active... I think we paid something like $10k per month. Oct 20 00:38:03 wtf Oct 20 00:38:29 We were doing something like 30GB of data per card. Oct 20 00:39:07 I'm not talking about company phones but phones and SIMs we used for QA on our cell phone games. Oct 20 00:49:13 o2 germany offers up to four prepaid sim cards for free Oct 20 00:49:38 and provides one month free umts Oct 20 01:11:27 It'd be so nice if you could use multiple SIMs Oct 20 01:12:30 you have tmo and at&t? Oct 20 01:14:03 I'm in the UK - one provider offers free skype and MSN Oct 20 01:14:15 And so on Oct 20 01:22:32 i only need OTG data occasionally Oct 20 01:48:34 moo Oct 20 02:59:24 yo **** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Oct 20 02:59:57 2009