**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Nov 18 03:00:03 2009 Nov 18 03:04:23 tracy is gonna kill me Nov 18 03:06:42 rly kill me. the laptoois dead says fan error Nov 18 03:06:55 its her laptop Nov 18 03:10:08 dust chunk? Nov 18 03:11:11 -ping Nov 18 03:15:21 firebird thats what im hoping Nov 18 03:15:39 but it was working when i left house Nov 18 03:15:56 just open up the device and take a look Nov 18 03:15:58 when i arrived at hotel it was doin this Nov 18 03:16:54 yeah ive just nit had this ever. and it couldnt have come at the wring time Nov 18 03:17:24 i just spent a day n a bit getting it working Nov 18 03:18:16 excuse typing n900 + beer isnt great combination Nov 18 03:18:48 use an iphone...made for the mentally impaired Nov 18 03:19:09 but i cant draw with iphone Nov 18 03:19:25 i am more refined and use a pen Nov 18 03:19:42 ...then get apple to provide a resistive iphone! Nov 18 03:20:17 i believe the newton was Nov 18 03:20:38 now introducing...the newton 3gs Nov 18 03:21:02 i have 3.5g here Nov 18 03:21:19 wait, you mean the iphone isn't 3.5 g? Nov 18 03:21:25 and the nokia is more open Nov 18 03:21:34 3.5g network Nov 18 03:21:47 whatever that means Nov 18 03:22:00 I'm far more interested in in the n900 than any apple device Nov 18 03:22:20 nod Nov 18 03:22:52 it would be interesting to see maemo on apple hw tho Nov 18 03:23:18 I'm up for having maemo spread to more hw Nov 18 03:23:30 for that matter. it should be viable on any android hw too Nov 18 03:23:46 Maedroid? Nov 18 03:23:52 heh Nov 18 03:24:19 lcukn900: that would be true if Android and Maemo were both really open as they advertise Nov 18 03:24:27 but neither are, so mostly hopeless :p Nov 18 03:24:29 * lcukn900 would like to see nokia devices come ouy of the box with a choice; maemo or symbian Nov 18 03:25:07 * luke-jr would prefer to see devices come out of the box blank, with source code and hardware documentation on a CD Nov 18 03:25:14 bah luke, at leat in maemo the toolkit choice is left to the implimentor Nov 18 03:25:32 lcukn900: huh? Nov 18 03:25:56 Maemo is a specific combination of software. Nov 18 03:27:06 android ui = whatever java thing, iphone ui = whatever apple thing, maemo ui = gtk=qt=enlightenment,dos,liq* etc Nov 18 03:27:27 x11 Nov 18 03:28:38 lcukn900: if you changed Maemo from Hildon, it would no longer be Maemo Nov 18 03:29:03 but you can run non hildon apps happily Nov 18 03:29:31 you can? :) Nov 18 03:29:50 last I checked Maemo abused the RAM too much to make running other apps practical Nov 18 03:29:52 :p Nov 18 03:30:00 better than any other platform Nov 18 03:30:07 feasible Nov 18 03:30:24 KDE 4 + Arora performs better than Maemo :p Nov 18 03:30:25 its impossible realistically on other devices Nov 18 03:30:43 kde runs on maemo Nov 18 03:31:16 whats the last gtk app you saw running on iphone Nov 18 03:31:47 I've never seen an iphone period. Nov 18 03:32:23 and I don't see what any of this has to do with putting Maemo on Android devices Nov 18 03:33:10 maemo os on other devices is a good thing Nov 18 03:33:33 most likely will be mer but you get the idea Nov 18 03:53:07 hi all, I did not find a way to checkout the source code of maemo in maemo.org, is maemo source opened currently ? Nov 18 04:01:34 antonf: Maemo has never been open. Only sub-components thereof are. Nov 18 04:01:58 those components are scattered Nov 18 04:02:12 Nokia-originating ones are probably either on gitorious or maemo garage Nov 18 04:02:38 sigh, that's breaking GPL Nov 18 04:02:57 antonf: GPL does not infect mere aggregation. Nov 18 04:03:09 Nokia is to my knowledge currently in compliance with the GPL. Nov 18 04:03:23 I'm relatively sure they have source packages the same place their binaries are. Nov 18 04:03:35 but usually when you want source, you want access to the SCM Nov 18 04:05:03 http://catalogue.tableteer.nokia.com/certified/pool/diablo/user/source/\ Nov 18 04:05:11 not sure where you'd find fremantle src pkgs Nov 18 04:12:29 luke-jr, ok, understand, thanks. Nov 18 04:18:48 someone needs to scrub t.m.o with fire Nov 18 04:39:50 * CoreFusion- decided to stay up through the night to correct his day-night-rythm... Nov 18 04:52:39 lol Nov 18 05:13:32 hmm, is it a sign that your stomach doesn't like something when you lose it on the wall Nov 18 05:15:11 I could be mistaken, it might be just jomping for joy Nov 18 05:15:19 jumping even Nov 18 05:15:39 how annoying Nov 18 05:18:23 What do people think of the chances for adding feautres to the default camera app? Nov 18 05:18:52 slim :) Nov 18 05:20:15 hmm...think it would be better to produce an alternative camera app? Nov 18 05:20:29 alternative/supplemental Nov 18 05:42:47 dmj726: so do it Nov 18 05:42:52 it's just v4l2 after all Nov 18 05:49:06 I'm kinda thinking of doing it. Nov 18 05:49:45 Though I am a bit concerned about putting my finger in too many pots. Nov 18 06:00:54 hi, anyone know where is libprofile-dev's source code or it is not an open source package? Nov 18 06:04:20 anyone find gdb-server for maemo 5? Nov 18 06:04:32 so I can run it on device Nov 18 06:05:58 dmj726, why not adapt one of the maemo4 camera apps? Nov 18 06:06:14 example code + mostly written UI = win? Nov 18 06:06:14 didn't know those exist Nov 18 06:06:43 off the top of my head: "camera" and "gps camera" and "video camera" :) Nov 18 06:06:59 (not exact names, void where prohibited) Nov 18 06:10:09 hmm... Nov 18 06:12:40 good morning Nov 18 06:13:04 mornin' recalcati__ Nov 18 06:13:34 hi johnx: could be nice, only for testing purspose, using 89ccbd14fe8c0e6b0fefcca2151da28d98088bf5 ? Nov 18 06:13:51 I need linux input event Nov 18 06:13:57 just see the one gps-camera Nov 18 06:14:30 recalcati__, sorry. I don't understand... Nov 18 06:14:36 I could port linux input event from 4.6 stable to 4.5.2, but, if it is stable enough, I jump to 89ccbd14fe8c0e6b0fefcca2151da28d98088bf5 Nov 18 06:14:51 git://gitorious.org/qt/qt.git Nov 18 06:15:58 I don't know any Qt, so I don't know Nov 18 06:16:57 dmj726, here's videocamera: https://garage.maemo.org/projects/camera/ Nov 18 06:17:42 this may also be interesting: https://garage.maemo.org/softwaremap/trove_list.php?form_cat=103 Nov 18 06:25:44 morning! Nov 18 06:26:45 allo Nov 18 06:31:19 coming from work today it's readily apparent why open source software has the potential to be better than closed source/proprietary code Nov 18 06:31:53 once again open source saved the day? Nov 18 06:33:03 nah, it's just that after seeing this PHP someone had written and trying to make a (really!) minor tweak, it was immediately apparent that if this ever got in front of a group of 10 or so people, someone would rewrite it out of pity Nov 18 06:33:08 open source saving the day is risking becoming passe to me...since it's becoming an everyday occurence. Nov 18 06:33:43 Yeah, I've heard horror stories about the things that happen in closed projects Nov 18 06:34:15 I know a better way to do the needed task in *bash* than was done in PHP with the assistance of several support libraries Nov 18 06:35:40 to generalize a bit: if you had 4 different potential email messages to send, each with an HTML version and a text version, would you pull the message in from a .html file on the system? or would you directly assign it to a variable inside the php script itself? Nov 18 06:53:11 How about 400 consecutive if statements? Nov 18 06:53:46 * RST38h facepalms at PHP coders. Nov 18 06:54:07 actually those were in Visual Basic Nov 18 06:55:57 RST38h, there's one in particular. :) impressively, he actually makes a much better manager than a programmer and managed to hire two good PHP programmers and get out of the role himself :) Nov 18 06:56:39 good for him Nov 18 06:57:48 good for me too, who occasionally ends up poking at bugs in the codebase. From what I can tell, the thing I was looking at today is older than our SVN repository Nov 18 06:58:37 wow Nov 18 06:58:40 I heard stories of coders on proprietary projects hacking around the vcs commit system to avoid code review Nov 18 06:58:47 johnx: That is not surprising Nov 18 06:59:15 johnx: A lot of managers are like that. As long as they are smart enough not to go into technical details deep enough, they are ok Nov 18 07:01:18 RST38h, yup. he's also gotten better at programing over the years, and it's crazy to think he was doing the job of our whole IT/development staff on his own for quite a while...but some of that old code is still ... uhm... very creative Nov 18 07:02:42 dmj726, not much formal review here. that would require specs and someone to spend time reviewing the code Nov 18 07:03:48 this was a major project, dealing with a lot of low level system internals Nov 18 07:04:12 low level VB? let me guess: did it have inline assembly? Nov 18 07:04:51 Two separate stories. Apparently the programmer in question ended up destroying their svn in the process. Nov 18 07:05:13 * dmj726 did the 400 if statements when he was very young. Nov 18 07:06:05 ...there were also many other horror stories about bad programming practices in this organization. Nov 18 07:06:28 ...most of which I have never seen in any FOSS project I've been involved in. Nov 18 07:07:55 even when the incentive is there in FOSS projects, there are a lot of eyes looking at code (if the project is big enough) Nov 18 07:09:05 Yeah, even the one man projects have a little more incentive to have good code Nov 18 07:09:51 self imposed deadlines, passion to begin with, pride/embarassment Nov 18 07:10:48 I certainly wouldn't open source my earliest code for that reason. Nov 18 07:16:30 Of course my current code is far better :) Nov 18 07:16:56 I should replace that hunk of php with some bash that does the same thing :> Nov 18 07:45:35 meh Nov 18 07:46:50 morning Nov 18 07:49:17 is gst_camerabin in one of the repos somewhere? Nov 18 07:49:58 hmm, plugins bad perhaps Nov 18 07:59:45 hmm, pkg-config for gstreamer-0.10 doesn't supply any -L data..... Nov 18 08:00:52 ah, I need to choose gstreamer-plugins-bad-0.10 Nov 18 08:08:43 aargh, why does pkg-config --libs gstreamer-plugins-bad-0.10 not supply a -L path at all!? Nov 18 08:22:40 hmm, what is the standard method of getting an app to use a library which is apparently not in LD_LIBRARY_PATH? Nov 18 08:22:55 e.g. one which is in /usr/lib/gstreamer-0.10/ Nov 18 08:23:17 shouldnt LD_LIBRARY_PATH address that exactly? Nov 18 08:23:25 i.e. libraries in non-standard locations Nov 18 08:25:16 dunno, perhaps Nov 18 08:25:31 but then I'd need to call my binary from a script Nov 18 08:27:00 I can't believe all gst apps have this problem, really Nov 18 08:29:05 you have plugins in this path? Nov 18 08:29:46 i have done work with gstreamer but it was few years ago already so i've forgotten most of it already which is a shame because Gstreamer is one of the saner frameworks on linux Nov 18 08:29:59 but iirc you can pass a path to the library when dealing with gstreamer Nov 18 08:31:25 yeah all the plugins are installed in that path, with not many symlinked into /use/lib Nov 18 08:31:54 so to compiled, curiously, I have to explicitly supply that path to the linker (I think the pkg-config file ought to do that really) Nov 18 08:32:00 but at run time they are not found Nov 18 08:32:17 what are you doing? Nov 18 08:32:23 try something like Nov 18 08:32:31 packaging up my barcode scanner Nov 18 08:32:33 gst-inspect /opt/mypath/somelib.so Nov 18 08:33:00 I know the plugins are valid as I can link against them Nov 18 08:33:11 I'm using them rather than writing one Nov 18 08:33:51 you link against plugins? Nov 18 08:34:00 are you writing an application? Nov 18 08:34:27 yes, this is an application Nov 18 08:34:42 which uses the camera Nov 18 08:36:35 morning tekojo Nov 18 08:36:42 morning lardman Nov 18 08:37:00 flaky wlan here, apparently threw me out while I was having coffee Nov 18 08:37:28 :) Nov 18 08:43:03 hmm, so if I start my app from a shell script, so I can alter LD_LIBRARY_PATH so that the gst plugins can be found, does that break the taskbar, etc., as the names in the .desktop file, etc., don't match any more Nov 18 08:44:39 lardman what are you trying now? Nov 18 08:44:55 just trying to get mbarcode packaged up and in the repo Nov 18 08:45:07 but not having much luck with it finding the gstreamer plugins Nov 18 08:45:21 do you really need to alter path? Nov 18 08:45:35 previously I was linking against libgdigicam, but that's apparently not available in the repo and I didn't want to push it myself Nov 18 08:45:50 tekojo: the plugins live in /usr/lib/gstreamer-0.10/ Nov 18 08:47:38 libdigicam not available? need to check up on that (or danielwilms could do that :-) Nov 18 08:48:00 it's on the devices, but not visible in any of the repos I can see Nov 18 08:48:08 morning danielwilms Nov 18 08:48:27 morning lardman Nov 18 08:48:57 give me a moment...I will check that Nov 18 08:49:03 thanks Nov 18 08:58:18 lardman, right now the binaries gdigicam are not part of the SDK but you could build it with the sources...there is a good chance that we could add the binaries too...I will let you know Nov 18 08:58:34 lardman: but you dont need to link against the plugins, just gst framework :) Nov 18 08:58:44 *could add it to the binaries Nov 18 08:58:50 I've built it from git, but if I want to push mbarcode to extras-devel, I'll need it available somewhere Nov 18 08:59:02 ahh ok Nov 18 08:59:29 ensi: yeah, but I do need to link against the plugin otherwise I get undefined symbol errors Nov 18 09:00:14 danielwilms: is there any reason it's not in the repo? It is on the devices after all Nov 18 09:00:27 lardman: umh, i dont get this. you're writing an application, you cannot (or are not supposed) to access the plugin directly via its internal interface :p Nov 18 09:01:41 ensi: hmm, I need to use the photography interface, so I presumed I should link against the camerabin plugin which provides the fn in question. I so also link against the main gstreamer lib as I use that too Nov 18 09:01:43 whats hte open source maemo5 called again? Nov 18 09:01:51 ~mer Nov 18 09:01:52 well, mer is http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer, or on #mer Nov 18 09:01:52 some effort to bootstrap maemo using Nov 18 09:01:53 lardman I'm trying to figure out, what the reason is, why it is not in there...might be just a mistake, then we will add it there... Nov 18 09:01:53 yes Nov 18 09:01:55 that Nov 18 09:02:08 danielwilms: cool, thanks Nov 18 09:06:38 heya all Nov 18 09:07:10 hey wazd Nov 18 09:07:19 facebook plugin for XBox is a bit naff. Nov 18 09:07:36 And it's a shame the last.fm plugin isn't capable of playuing music whilst you're doing other stuff. Nov 18 09:08:12 also naff: they dropped the price used "banned" xboxes through the floor ... but it's also impossible to run homebrew on the consoles those same consoles that have the latest kernel :| Nov 18 09:08:14 Poor design :( Nov 18 09:08:29 johnx: yeah, that's a bit crap. Nov 18 09:08:35 Can you not clone the drives some how? Nov 18 09:08:48 I think the kernel is in firmware this time Nov 18 09:08:52 Ah, right. Nov 18 09:09:07 (also: WTH was I trying to type up there?!) Nov 18 09:09:09 johnx: in rom iirc from mgedmin's post yesterday Nov 18 09:09:13 what's the point of a device with no homebrew? Nov 18 09:09:15 That thought did just occur to me, still, I'm happy with my XBox just running as it's supposed to. Nov 18 09:09:33 I see little point in turning it into a linux workstation as my workstation is sitting right next to it ^.^ Nov 18 09:09:37 my wii doesn't have quite the amount of kick I'd like it to have under linux Nov 18 09:09:47 particularly one with no homebrew and no networking Nov 18 09:09:51 johnx: did you read that wikipedia article on 17 ways MS went wrong with xbox security? Nov 18 09:09:56 I'd love to run canola and use a wiimote on a decent tv connected machine Nov 18 09:10:04 lardman, the first xbox, right? Nov 18 09:10:13 yeah Nov 18 09:10:18 you talking 360? Nov 18 09:10:40 yeah Nov 18 09:11:00 they just banned a whole bunch of modded consoles, and apparently they're going used for like $40 USD Nov 18 09:11:12 oh wow Nov 18 09:11:18 is the mod not reversible then? Nov 18 09:11:30 the mod may be reversible, but the banning is not Nov 18 09:11:37 ah right Nov 18 09:12:01 or rather, the circumstances under which you could get around the ban are pretty crazy Nov 18 09:12:35 ...banning consoles is pretty harsh Nov 18 09:12:38 ...hmm Nov 18 09:12:46 You know what would be a great hack? Nov 18 09:13:09 Take all those modded consoles and build a service they could connect to. Nov 18 09:13:11 Yeah, policing hackers should be by a crack squad of FBI agents :) Nov 18 09:13:48 ah, look at the time, got to go to work, bbiab Nov 18 09:14:13 the ban I'm fine with, strangely. the not allowing homebrew (even if it means giving up your privilege to connect to live) is more annoying Nov 18 09:14:27 ...and provide games and so forth that would run on the modded consoles for that network. Nov 18 09:14:42 yeah, but again: no homebrew Nov 18 09:14:56 need that as the first stepping stone. without it, grander dreams are just that Nov 18 09:15:04 ...not with the default OS Nov 18 09:15:31 er, wait, so you want to make licensed games that people with modded consoles could buy? Nov 18 09:15:52 either buy or get free, probably a mix Nov 18 09:16:26 wait a minute...this isn't an original concept Nov 18 09:16:32 not 100% sure on this, but doesn't all xbox360 inet multiplayer stuff happen through live? Nov 18 09:16:42 yes Nov 18 09:16:51 so, the first step is homebrew Nov 18 09:16:57 And I just realized where I got that idea Nov 18 09:17:05 It's the xnet Nov 18 09:17:27 from Cory Doctorow's little brother. Nov 18 09:17:45 that being the title Nov 18 09:17:45 there's been lots of similar ideas before as well Nov 18 09:18:39 The N900 isn't on Amazon.co.uk Nov 18 09:18:51 WoG on xbox 360 anyone? Nov 18 09:19:04 Can you install Linux on the 360? Nov 18 09:19:30 dmj726, nope. the summer update blocks homebrew Nov 18 09:19:36 that's what I was lamenting earlier :) Nov 18 09:19:50 oh...so you can't even wipe it completely? Nov 18 09:20:07 "wipe" it? Nov 18 09:20:17 overright the OS? Nov 18 09:20:36 it keeps the kernel and 1st bootloader in flash ROM, if I understand the situation correctly Nov 18 09:21:17 so it's impossible to overwrite the bootloader? Nov 18 09:21:56 there isn't a known method right now that's available even to reasonably competent hackers it seems Nov 18 09:22:06 even the old method involved soldering it seems Nov 18 09:22:18 hrm... Nov 18 09:22:45 http://www.free60.org/JTAG_Hack Nov 18 09:29:07 hmm...makes me want the 360 less than I already did. Nov 18 09:29:27 get a wiimote, a n900 and drnoksnes :P Nov 18 09:29:51 would have been nice to get 600,000 potential linux consoles Nov 18 09:30:04 I'm trying to think of extra hardware, in relation to the N900, that would make it my ultimate dream device. Nov 18 09:30:10 But even the lack of USB host mode doesn't bother me. Nov 18 09:30:16 I'm not sure I can think of anything. Nov 18 09:30:30 usb host would be handy on occasion Nov 18 09:30:35 my list is surprisingly short as well Nov 18 09:30:49 wouldn't mind slightly larger screen Nov 18 09:31:01 I was thinking about an inbuilt projector, but really, I don't think that's a particularly important feature. Nov 18 09:31:06 more portrait mode Nov 18 09:31:16 I wouldn't mind one, but I'm pretty happy in the 3.5" - 4" range Nov 18 09:31:16 Well, that's software ;) Nov 18 09:31:24 i still wonder if the usb host bits (not otg) are cut or not Nov 18 09:31:27 projector would be cool, but would drain battery and take up lost of space Nov 18 09:31:53 Yeah, I think having an external projector, which is easily done now, is the best option. Nov 18 09:31:55 I wouldn't want much more than 4" Nov 18 09:31:58 anyone tried host with 42-11 yet? Nov 18 09:32:33 built in projector would suck for using the device Nov 18 09:32:48 you'd shake the projected pic way too easily Nov 18 09:32:53 ...yeah separate projector is better Nov 18 09:33:02 yep Nov 18 09:33:08 as cool as it would be :) Nov 18 09:33:31 component/vga/dvi/inset better display out would be nice. Nov 18 09:33:50 Yeah, though, about 6 years ago,m when I wasw dreaming of devices like this, my dream device had an inbuilt projector that auto corrected the aspect ratio depending on distance of two of the corners of the projected image, using laser distance measuring equipment :) Nov 18 09:33:59 HDMI out would be nice. Nov 18 09:34:19 number row for keyboard Nov 18 09:34:34 hdmi is just so huge.. not sure where i would fit it on a n900 Nov 18 09:34:38 dmj726: software? :) Nov 18 09:34:39 portrait virt keybd that showed half the screen Nov 18 09:34:50 Stskeeps: sure, some proprietary connector of course ;) Nov 18 09:35:06 i wouldn't mind seeing a sdio docking station or something Nov 18 09:35:10 yeah, and bundle a special cable with it. Nov 18 09:35:56 But the OMAP in the N900 is perfectly capable of HDMI so I don't understand why they didn't do it, it'd be the killer feature that they've never done before. Nov 18 09:36:14 A natural evolution from the bad quality svideo connectivit Nov 18 09:36:35 alterego: not sure if the OMAP has the horse power to decode HDMI quality video Nov 18 09:37:01 but i am no CPU geek. Nov 18 09:37:06 Maybe not, but you can still limit the resolution, sap, 720 or something. Nov 18 09:37:23 hey guys, n810 question. how do i stop maps from holding screen lit? Nov 18 09:37:24 720 would be sweet Nov 18 09:37:46 Anything would be better than PAL/NTSC resolution :P Nov 18 09:38:01 Especially when playing "Bounce: Evolution" ;) Nov 18 09:38:07 alterego, IIRC, the omap3 has one hi-res digital out and one lower res tv-out Nov 18 09:38:16 Has anyone started working on any augmented reawlity apps for the N900 yet>? Nov 18 09:38:20 the tvout at 800x480 is pretty damn sweet Nov 18 09:38:28 johnx: exactly, Nov 18 09:38:52 is there a digital out on the n900? Nov 18 09:38:56 GPS+Streetview+stuff Nov 18 09:39:07 no digital video out Nov 18 09:39:23 so end of discussion lol? Nov 18 09:39:28 lcukn900: I was just bringing up a few of my hardware requests ;) Nov 18 09:39:37 I don't care about improved resolution output as much as connectivity to computer monitors Nov 18 09:39:48 ahhh i want a flying car n900 version Nov 18 09:39:49 lcukn900: i am also satisfied with the analog output's quality. but well, i still only have an analog tv... Nov 18 09:39:49 good morning Nov 18 09:40:01 lcukn900, yeah, hooks up to the LCD :P Nov 18 09:40:07 I think HDMI/DVI output would be the only one, and, to me, it's annoying because the device is capable of doing it, I can't see why they didn't just throw it in. Nov 18 09:40:08 ...PAL looks too horrible on LCD tv Nov 18 09:40:12 lol Nov 18 09:40:17 Stskeeps: hdmi has a mini connector type too Nov 18 09:40:21 I don't have an analog tv anymore Nov 18 09:40:30 wait...there's on in the corner of the room. Nov 18 09:40:32 dmj726: poor guy Nov 18 09:40:37 i see my n810 has finally gone dark i can walk now Nov 18 09:40:37 *one Nov 18 09:40:41 I might buy a beagle board, just to act as a streaming server for the N900 ;) Nov 18 09:40:54 ...I don't really use the TV in the dorm anymore Nov 18 09:40:58 dmj726: well, maybe you are watching DVDs, or something :-) Nov 18 09:40:59 alterego: there are a lot of things that could be "thrown in" but all that requires work and testing and sweat Nov 18 09:41:02 tigert: ah, didn't know that Nov 18 09:41:04 Media renderer I mean .. Nov 18 09:41:13 The computer screen is more useful Nov 18 09:41:19 ...and bigger Nov 18 09:41:47 even the tv-out on my N900 is fun and useful Nov 18 09:41:53 like for playing videos pulled from youtube Nov 18 09:42:03 or playing youtube directly of course :) Nov 18 09:42:10 Hmmm...I wonder if one can output to VGA somehow Nov 18 09:42:13 and for viewing photos etc Nov 18 09:42:18 my monitor does have that. Nov 18 09:42:20 So, I'll buy a beagle board, maybe get someone to get me it for Christmas *winks at General Antilles" and build a portable HD capable UPnP media renderer for plugging into HD TV's. Nov 18 09:42:26 tigert: yup. Nov 18 09:42:59 Then the N900 can stream to the Beagle and I have what I want ::) Nov 18 09:43:15 alterego, was thinking along similar lines, but I think it'd be pressed right up the max decoding some high bitrate 1280x720 stuff Nov 18 09:43:25 Yer Nov 18 09:43:36 ewww new feature on nOVER9000 tigert sweat tray just like a george foreman grill Nov 18 09:43:47 Heh Nov 18 09:44:10 Power consumption is becoming a major concern in my house though, laptop+workstation+TV+xbox-360 Nov 18 09:44:26 I want to cut out the workstation for watching video by using a beagle board and the N900 Nov 18 09:44:39 ...same here...all the old boxen still in service Nov 18 09:44:41 does the n900 have a front camera then can be used for video chat on skype or google talk? Nov 18 09:44:42 The XBox is only on when I'm playing it, so I don't realy care about that. Nov 18 09:44:52 IcanCU: yes Nov 18 09:45:01 does it work well? Nov 18 09:45:03 WEcanCU too! Nov 18 09:45:04 lcuk: http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/4/2009/11/500x_baconsunrise.jpg Nov 18 09:45:14 lol Nov 18 09:45:27 * GeneralAntilles yawns loudly. Nov 18 09:45:31 IcanCU: no idea, comparable quality to all the other Nokia front mount cameras I'd imagine. Nov 18 09:45:32 alterego: disconnect AC, heater, stove, laundry, and dishwasher Nov 18 09:45:37 Damn I hate waking up early for no reason. Nov 18 09:45:43 alterego, why am I buying you a Beagle? :P Nov 18 09:45:46 alterego: Then you can watch TV in peace =) Nov 18 09:45:52 GeneralAntilles: because you love me :) Nov 18 09:46:04 well i have an e71 but i wouldn't know how to use it Nov 18 09:46:10 nor have i seen it being used Nov 18 09:46:18 RST38h: was that a joke about me dying? "TIP" ? ;) Nov 18 09:46:19 alterego, there's no denying that, but you may have to settle for flowers and chocolate. :D Nov 18 09:46:21 the front camera i mean Nov 18 09:46:39 IcanCU: fire up the camera application and get it to switch to the "secondary" camera. Nov 18 09:46:48 Hah Nov 18 09:47:03 off2underground Nov 18 09:47:14 sure but it won't work with skype or google talk Nov 18 09:47:19 damn chan Nov 18 09:47:25 oh well Nov 18 09:47:28 My life is so painful right now, I'm having to code ActiveX/COM/DirectShow efilters :S Nov 18 09:47:35 Urg Nov 18 09:47:38 that sounds awful Nov 18 09:47:38 It's seriously stressing me out. Nov 18 09:47:53 3 things I don't want to touch with a ten foot pole Nov 18 09:48:05 At least you have your health. *g* Nov 18 09:48:07 IT's not fun, Nov 18 09:48:18 I don't feel healthy .. Nov 18 09:48:25 alterego, is coding with an 11 foot pole difficult? Nov 18 09:48:29 I feel super stressed. Nov 18 09:48:31 * johnx was always curious Nov 18 09:48:48 alterego: Well, at least you will do so watching TV and playing games on your XBox =) Nov 18 09:48:50 * RST38h cackles Nov 18 09:48:51 I might go visit the Dr, no sleep and constantly feeling like shit is not making me particularly productive. Nov 18 09:48:58 Heh, yeah. Nov 18 09:49:26 Yeah...why are you using such awful tech? Nov 18 09:49:41 Work, why do you think :/ Nov 18 09:49:53 Sucker for punishment. Nov 18 09:49:57 My job is great, up until this point. Nov 18 09:52:25 I'm hoping, they'll adopt my super-duper-gstreamer based camera control system when I've finished developing it. Nov 18 09:52:33 Then I don't have to piss around with this crap anymore. Nov 18 09:52:49 That and the demo I'm going to knock up on the N900 ;) Nov 18 09:53:27 * GeneralAntilles loves all the people who doing Maemo demos at work. Nov 18 09:54:01 :) Nov 18 09:54:39 Not enough to get them all Beagle Boards, however. *g* Nov 18 09:54:47 Hahah :) Nov 18 09:54:57 Awww :P Nov 18 09:55:11 * johnx needs to demo his n900 at work actually Nov 18 09:55:21 Do you think they'll do a beagle with the new multi core cortex? Nov 18 09:55:52 Good question for jkridner Nov 18 09:55:59 learn maemo 5 and win n900 Nov 18 09:56:08 I'd bet yes, but it's gonna be a while until OMAP4 is at that point. Nov 18 09:56:20 no screenprotector shipped with the n900 - new dealbreaker? Nov 18 09:56:33 frals: sure! Nov 18 09:56:34 buy one? Nov 18 09:56:44 Who's seen that 30 Rock episode? Nov 18 09:56:48 frals: nokia's so cheap Nov 18 09:56:54 haha yeah Nov 18 09:57:00 What? There is a screen protector on the N900 Nov 18 09:57:08 talking about N900, how clean does the screen wipe with the cleaning cloth? At work i only got paper and its greacy as hell Nov 18 09:57:14 alterego: Yeah, a black one. Nov 18 09:57:26 O_o Nov 18 09:57:29 alterego: it's opaque Nov 18 09:57:42 Oh .. Nov 18 09:57:51 And there's no protector under that protector? :) Nov 18 09:57:55 Like with the N810? Nov 18 09:58:14 Just buy a Boxwave and be done with it. Nov 18 09:58:19 wasn't the n810 one not supposed to be used as such? Nov 18 09:58:27 The clear plastic was never meant to be used as a protector anyway. Nov 18 09:58:31 boxwave? link? Nov 18 09:58:45 re Nov 18 09:58:51 http://www.boxwave.com/products/cleartouch/index.htm Nov 18 09:58:58 I figure, "Who cares, I'm gonna replace it in a year anyway" :P Nov 18 09:59:00 so how were the beer last night? Nov 18 09:59:02 No N900 version out yet Nov 18 09:59:06 But probably soon. Nov 18 09:59:09 oh Nov 18 09:59:16 oh, no jeremiah :( Nov 18 09:59:25 did you see the rubberized shell on ebay? Nov 18 09:59:29 will have to wait till later for my debian challenge :) Nov 18 09:59:31 2 pieces Nov 18 09:59:40 alterego: Depending on how neat your are, you may well ruin it before the year is over =) Nov 18 10:00:10 my devices tend to get pressed into service for at least 5 years. Nov 18 10:00:19 Besides, scratches are annoying, especially if you use it in places with bright spot lighting Nov 18 10:01:06 my current phone is from 2004 :P Nov 18 10:01:54 I'm pretty careful, Nov 18 10:02:23 RST38h, bright lights? like the terrifying daystar? Nov 18 10:02:40 haha Nov 18 10:02:40 heh...though actually, not seeing too much of it these days around this area Nov 18 10:03:28 http://www.google.com/search?q=weather+in+seattle Nov 18 10:03:34 hey lardman Nov 18 10:03:49 dev-package should be there now Nov 18 10:06:51 johnx: weirdly, sunlight does not apply =) Nov 18 10:07:11 johnx: Whatever these nokia guys have done, it manages to hide scratches pretty well in sunlight Nov 18 10:07:34 works pretty well under flourescents, except at that "perfect" viewing angle Nov 18 10:08:11 hasn't bothered me yet, and my n800 hasn't shown unreasonable screen wear either Nov 18 10:08:17 johnx: have got fluorescents right here, right now (bright ones though), scratches do show up Nov 18 10:08:18 http://mobile.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/11/18/0051243 didnt know google gave the carrier adsplits :o Nov 18 10:08:45 frals, yeah, read that a bit ago. isn't that crazy? Nov 18 10:08:49 RST38h: you have scratches already? Nov 18 10:09:09 dmj726: yea, a few. It is way less easily scratched than some sites want you to believe Nov 18 10:09:22 what did you do to it? Nov 18 10:09:24 its a pretty good business strategy i guess ^^ Nov 18 10:09:26 dmj726: But, having said that, steel keys will still do the job Nov 18 10:09:43 seeing as the marke is exploding with android phones Nov 18 10:09:53 dmj726: Applied nails (using fingers is way unreliable) and the stylus Nov 18 10:09:57 so way more scratchable than iThingy or Droid? Nov 18 10:10:12 http://mobile.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1447730&cid=30138598 Nov 18 10:10:16 nails scratch it? Nov 18 10:10:16 Maemo needs more exposure Nov 18 10:10:19 dmj726: I have not used iPhone for long, and have not seend Droid yet Nov 18 10:10:20 RST38h, pockets man! your pants should have two of them. categorize your items appropriately: things that scratch, things that can be scratched Nov 18 10:10:25 dmj726: not normally Nov 18 10:10:43 keys got yours? Nov 18 10:10:51 dmj726, no, nails don't scratch it. Nov 18 10:10:52 johnx: got first scratches that way, bought a pouch Nov 18 10:11:24 dmj726: I suspect sharp nail corners and (in one case) a stylus hit Nov 18 10:11:41 dmj726: One small comment about that my-symbian photo on tmo: Nov 18 10:12:39 I made a pouch out of an old wetsuit Nov 18 10:12:46 dmj726: When you apply nails to a dirty screen, they leave traces that LOOK like scratches Nov 18 10:12:46 Nice black neoprene :) Nov 18 10:13:00 urgh..could have just bought a camera pouch Nov 18 10:13:09 ah...but those come off Nov 18 10:13:39 As long as they don't scratch it, nails will be used on the screen a lot Nov 18 10:14:02 You know the idiots who struggle with resistive. Nov 18 10:14:15 dmj726, roofing nails? or ... ? ;) Nov 18 10:14:23 Droid did not respond to my touch for at least the first 30 seconds. Nov 18 10:14:33 finger nails ;) Nov 18 10:14:34 10 penny Nov 18 10:14:46 Reverse iPhone-finger! Nov 18 10:14:49 I used my nails on the screen lots. I don't really believe they're made of a harder material than the stylus Nov 18 10:15:12 Of course, I've not used either capacitive or resistive much Nov 18 10:15:24 but the finger nail is like a nice, mini stylus Nov 18 10:16:07 http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/for-Nokia-N900-N-900-Black-Rubber-Hard-Cover-Skin-Case_W0QQitemZ110456672448QQcategoryZ20367QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp4340.m263QQ_trkparmsZalgo%3DSIC%26its%3DI%26itu%3DUCI%252BIA%252BUA%252BIEW%252BFICS%252BUFI%26otn%3D11%26ps%3D63 Nov 18 10:17:24 dmj726: I still think Nokia should have included the triangular thingy they included with 5800 Nov 18 10:17:35 dmj726: It is ugly, weird, but useful Nov 18 10:17:37 triangular thingly? Nov 18 10:17:50 Guitar pick Nov 18 10:17:58 plextrum or whatever Nov 18 10:18:02 * GeneralAntilles just uses his fingers. Nov 18 10:18:08 there is a cute latin name for it Nov 18 10:18:23 or a nail clipper, to sharpen your nails so they act as a stylus :) Nov 18 10:24:07 http://www.amzer.com/accessories-details.asp?sku_no=85875&ptype=&model=&mcid=&category=&make= Nov 18 10:25:32 front camera? what front camera? Nov 18 10:26:19 How about LED, proximity sensor and ambient light sensor, too? Nov 18 10:26:48 is the proximity sensor separate from the light sensor? Nov 18 10:26:57 Er, yes? Nov 18 10:27:09 Otherwise there'd be faces all over that damn thing in a dark room. :P Nov 18 10:27:35 The proximity is a d-beam. Nov 18 10:27:53 oh Nov 18 10:27:55 cool. I have no idea what that means, but cool Nov 18 10:28:00 why would they cover the camer? Nov 18 10:28:08 that seems incredibly stupid Nov 18 10:28:22 dmj726, the better question is: why would they cover all that stuff...and leave the other side totally open? Nov 18 10:28:27 johnx, ever used one of those synths or keyboards with the IR proximity sensor that lets you control distortion/pitch/whatever? Nov 18 10:28:39 Usually you see them on Rolands Nov 18 10:28:44 somebody put it on upside doen? Nov 18 10:28:47 down Nov 18 10:28:58 GeneralAntilles, nope. music production equipment and I keep a good distance ever since the restraining order :| Nov 18 10:29:26 my artistic license was revoked. that Geneva convention has teeth man :/ Nov 18 10:29:28 http://rolandtaiwan.com.tw/roland/images/Image/L_ill/j/juno-d_LI04.jpg Nov 18 10:29:36 dmj726, except there's a hole for the speaker Nov 18 10:29:36 It's an IR LED and an IR receiver Nov 18 10:29:40 the ebay one seems better thought out Nov 18 10:29:54 http://www.roland.com/products/en/images/add/D_BEAM-1.jpg Nov 18 10:30:19 GeneralAntilles, neat! can we get ranges out of that thing? Nov 18 10:30:33 can proximty sensor be used for theramin purposes perhaps Nov 18 10:30:41 I think it may start to see stuff at about the 1" range. Nov 18 10:30:49 You can use it as a button, though. Nov 18 10:30:55 it might still be fun for a game Nov 18 10:31:15 move your thumb to accelerate/brake, tilt the device to steer Nov 18 10:31:38 Probably a bit sensitive for that. Nov 18 10:31:52 an inch is a really good range Nov 18 10:31:54 RST38h, ping? Nov 18 10:31:59 even a half inch would be ok I think Nov 18 10:32:06 * johnx holds his n900 and makes zooming noises Nov 18 10:32:51 pewpew Nov 18 10:32:58 They use it as the fire button for Quake 3. Nov 18 10:33:06 slick Nov 18 10:33:21 do they involve the camera shutter button? Nov 18 10:33:26 I just wish the mouselook and accelerometer control weren't so broken. Nov 18 10:33:27 No Nov 18 10:33:38 We need to bind that half-press to F11. Nov 18 10:34:15 yeah, first tablet where I want to rebind lots of stuff Nov 18 10:34:58 Having a dedicated fullscreen button would make things much nicer. Nov 18 10:35:39 danielwilms: a belated thanks for sorting that :) Nov 18 10:35:45 yup, though I'm actually torn between that and about 3 other functions Nov 18 10:35:51 o/ GeneralAntilles lardman johnx Nov 18 10:35:59 I still can't believe nobody can enlighten us as how to go about rebinding keys in a reasonable fashion. Nov 18 10:36:01 danielwilms, I've heard quite a lot about you yesterday! Nov 18 10:36:50 allo crashanddie Nov 18 10:37:27 GeneralAntilles, no event in xev. would you mind seeing if you get anything out of one of the eventN entries in /dev/input Nov 18 10:37:32 I want to work for Nokia Nov 18 10:37:57 Screw Australia, have you seen the quality of the birds at Nokia Global Marketing? Nov 18 10:38:15 yesterday was a good evening Nov 18 10:38:25 crashanddie, geese? crows? I dunno what kind of birds are in Finland... Nov 18 10:38:38 johnx, gtfo Nov 18 10:38:52 the penguins-with-frickin'-lasers t-shirts are incredibly ugly Nov 18 10:38:53 loads of interesting people, had some very good discussions, people were actually asking for our opinions which was refreshing Nov 18 10:39:04 wjt, yeah, they were Nov 18 10:39:05 http://mobile.slashdot.org/story/09/11/17/1637212/Alternative-Mobile-Browsers-Tested-For-Speed-Usability-JavaScript-Rendering?art_pos=18 Nov 18 10:39:17 * wjt declined Nov 18 10:39:22 wjt, so did I Nov 18 10:39:34 wjt, did we meet? Nov 18 10:39:34 there was a nice big pile of them at the end :) Nov 18 10:39:47 I can't believe how drunk I got Nov 18 10:40:20 crashanddie: "this thread useless w/o pics" Nov 18 10:40:28 lbt, I got pics Nov 18 10:40:42 but I would have to upload to flickr n shit Nov 18 10:40:43 SFW? Nov 18 10:40:45 and I'm late for work Nov 18 10:40:54 I got two numbers though Nov 18 10:41:25 * lbt would like to have gone... was supposed to be in Helsinki.... flights cancelled .... grr Nov 18 10:41:28 lbt, yeah, SFW, will upload tonight or something Nov 18 10:41:37 well, not tonight, going out with boss Nov 18 10:42:14 dmj726, yeah, and engadget called microb the "best default mobile browser" I believe Nov 18 10:42:37 so the n900 is stuck with your choice of the best browsers? Nov 18 10:42:57 darm...that's just so unbearable Nov 18 10:43:02 crashanddie: hmm, i don't think we did Nov 18 10:43:02 yeah, and some neat browsers that use webkit as well Nov 18 10:43:30 crash how was you 7am call? Nov 18 10:43:34 it's pretty much winning by default and having the choice if winning slightly differently if that's your thing Nov 18 10:43:49 How is the community going to cope with getting stuck with nice gecko and webkit browsers? Nov 18 10:43:52 lcukn900, painful Nov 18 10:43:58 yikes Nov 18 10:44:03 * wjt should have badgered lcukn900 to introduce community people :P Nov 18 10:44:05 yes, how? Nov 18 10:44:05 lcukn900, painful to wake up, call was fine Nov 18 10:44:14 im sat on the floor in the middle of euston station Nov 18 10:44:26 wjt you vanished rly quick Nov 18 10:44:32 dmj726, I imagine there will be endless threads complaining, until someone manages to figure something out Nov 18 10:44:38 lcukn900, did I meet wjt? Nov 18 10:44:39 hehe...you get to pick how you win :P Nov 18 10:44:49 great that u came tho :) Nov 18 10:44:51 * RST38h suddenly got a perfect idea for the N900 advertising campaign in .Ru =) Nov 18 10:44:56 People will complain about not having bad browsers Nov 18 10:44:58 dunno seb Nov 18 10:45:01 lcukn900: christian needed to catch a train in order to get back so that he could fly very early this morning Nov 18 10:45:13 dmj726, maybe someone should work on that Nov 18 10:45:19 RST: do share Nov 18 10:45:24 lcuk <-- brought up the idea Nov 18 10:45:33 yeah was a great night Nov 18 10:45:38 wjt, I'm sebastian, Nina introduced me at the beginning, I was the only idiot who didn't talk Nov 18 10:45:40 dmj726: It requires knowing the context =) Nov 18 10:45:44 this is so bizarre Nov 18 10:45:48 ah Nov 18 10:45:50 crashanddie: oh, heh :) Nov 18 10:46:17 http://www.engadget.com/2009/11/18/nokia-abandoning-s60-for-maemo-on-all-future-n-series-devices/ Nov 18 10:46:46 RST38h, O_o....though actually I pretty much called it Nov 18 10:46:48 =-O Nov 18 10:46:51 :-D Nov 18 10:46:53 i ha/e to give my laptop a blowjob when i get home Nov 18 10:47:21 johnx: well it was somewhat obvious, the question is when though Nov 18 10:47:31 it wont boot, after spending 3 days trying to get scratchbox happily on it, i hope a delivery comes soon Nov 18 10:47:37 RST38h: heh, wonder if that will cause some severe slappings Nov 18 10:47:42 2012 Nov 18 10:47:58 the rumors are true...Maemo causes the end of the world Nov 18 10:47:59 Sts: of course it will, mass corporal punishment etc Nov 18 10:48:00 yes, we get year of the linux on cellphones when the world ends Nov 18 10:48:23 Maemo on the LHC in 2012! w00! Nov 18 10:48:29 Hello ! Nov 18 10:48:32 lol Nov 18 10:48:32 Sounds like Maemo will be getting a rather nice slice of the cell phone market Nov 18 10:48:45 maemo everywhere Nov 18 10:48:45 n Nov 18 10:49:10 TSHIRT: "I was promised the End of the World and all I got is an end of crappy Symbian" Nov 18 10:49:12 LHC ? Large Hadron Collider ? Nov 18 10:49:24 RST38h: :D Nov 18 10:49:25 Stskeeps, if you get a vendor on the hook about a Mer-based touch interface to a large physics experiment, might want to double check for any potential bugs :) Nov 18 10:49:48 OH, and I managed to take a picture of the N920 Nov 18 10:49:58 lcukn900, remember that one? Shoved in a corner? Nov 18 10:50:11 Khertan, you missed context: Maemo replaces Symbian on N series devices by 2012, coinciding with the "end of the world" Nov 18 10:50:12 mmmm? Nov 18 10:50:17 news to me Nov 18 10:50:28 johnx: ah ok ;.... it s better now :) Nov 18 10:50:31 crashanddie: running Bora 2010HE? :P Nov 18 10:50:42 Maemo replaces Symbian on N series devices by 2012 <<< it s a good news Nov 18 10:50:56 good riddance to Symbian Nov 18 10:50:57 Khertan: Depends on who you are Nov 18 10:50:59 so will be able to use Maemo on all new nSerie for 12 Months Nov 18 10:51:01 yeah, none too soon Nov 18 10:51:11 Khertan: A lot of N-series folks are probably less than happy right now Nov 18 10:51:16 Khertan, http://www.engadget.com/2009/11/18/nokia-abandoning-s60-for-maemo-on-all-future-n-series-devices/ Nov 18 10:51:20 RST38h: it s good ... as i'm me Nov 18 10:51:34 hi khertan Nov 18 10:51:38 N-series folks << there is more than ten ? Nov 18 10:51:41 hi lcukn900 Nov 18 10:51:44 the name was mentioned in my OS class once...the professor made a funny face and there was a sound of disgust in his voice in response Nov 18 10:52:02 * RST38h sincerely hopes Maemo Devices will not start branching the platform for every new device though Nov 18 10:52:10 For their own good Nov 18 10:52:26 Linux did not elicit the same response Nov 18 10:52:48 hello boring designs! :D Nov 18 10:52:50 Keep maemo as Maemo...just add drivers Nov 18 10:52:55 I love engadget commenters who don't even read the headline Nov 18 10:52:56 Should have mentioned iPhone and apply the silver nails while he is dazed Nov 18 10:53:20 hello wazd ... oh wait :) Nov 18 10:53:56 johnx: no, I mean 800x480 touch screens :) Nov 18 10:54:12 trolly news : http://www.engadget.com/2009/11/13/nokia-rumored-to-be-eyeing-palm-buy-yet-again/ Nov 18 10:54:15 lol Nov 18 10:54:22 wazd, Maemo5 should be a lot more scalable than Maemo4 at least Nov 18 10:54:29 webos is a piece of shit Nov 18 10:54:33 Khertan: That would be the end of Palm Nov 18 10:54:44 there's web os tech that could be interesting Nov 18 10:54:50 RST38h: it s already the end :) Nov 18 10:54:51 johnx: No. Nov 18 10:54:58 johnx: no Nov 18 10:55:02 pretty similar to Nokia's web runtime, isn't it? Nov 18 10:55:07 johnx: no Nov 18 10:55:12 johnx: HTML-based desktops have been around for years, none of them caught up Nov 18 10:55:13 ah, nevermind then :) Nov 18 10:55:19 html os? no way :D Nov 18 10:55:22 at least they have interesting designs Nov 18 10:55:26 johnx: I do not think web runtime is the same, it is much more limited in scope Nov 18 10:55:31 johnx: the nokia webruntime is well writed Nov 18 10:55:38 wazd, that's web os :) Nov 18 10:55:38 johnx: not the palm one Nov 18 10:55:55 johnx: yea, the idea is interesting Nov 18 10:55:55 what the heck is a webruntime? Nov 18 10:55:57 johnx: but the only widely used implementation is iGoogle Nov 18 10:56:12 johnx: web runtime is more like that windows desktop enhancements where you write widgets in js Nov 18 10:56:13 dmj726: a dummy browser with proprietary api to call some hardware directly Nov 18 10:56:15 ‘Maemo Select’, the current community-portal for Maemo applications, will initially run alongside Nokia’s Ovi store, which is due to launch for the N900 via a software update next month.  However, in the longer term it too will be retired leaving only the Ovi Store as the official Nokia source for free and paid applications promoted on Symbian and Maemo devices. Nov 18 10:56:16 its a spider on a train Nov 18 10:56:33 this worries me Nov 18 10:56:36 ahaha Nov 18 10:56:38 dmj726: ? Nov 18 10:56:52 Unless Ovi Store dies before they phase Maemo Select out Nov 18 10:56:53 I don't want to be forced to use the ovi store for my FOSS Nov 18 10:56:57 dmj726: where did you get this troll ? Nov 18 10:56:58 dmj726, yeah. me too :/ Nov 18 10:57:04 http://thereallymobileproject.com/2009/11/nokia-dropping-symbian-from-n-series-by-2012/ Nov 18 10:57:04 watching now some stuff on TV bout fake money Nov 18 10:57:14 found that via slashgear Nov 18 10:57:24 dmj726: look like a fake rumors Nov 18 10:57:32 wazd, some guy here printed $7 million with an ink jet printer on news print Nov 18 10:57:58 looks like this might be the source of the 2012 switch Nov 18 10:58:12 I remember when I came to the bank to pay for appartments, gave the girl 1k rubles, she checked it under UV rays and revealed big fat BRIBE label :D Nov 18 10:58:13 nah.. TMO is the source Nov 18 10:58:35 wazd: and you got arrested? :P Nov 18 10:58:46 dmj726: everybody talk about 2012, but don't know Nov 18 10:59:03 Stskeeps: no, cause I was loling :D Nov 18 10:59:12 dmj726: this is true for predicted disaster, but also for nokia :) Nov 18 10:59:18 Khertan, the guy at reallymobile claims the source is the N900 london meet-up Nov 18 10:59:23 time will tell if it's true Nov 18 10:59:28 * RST38h wants an E-series Maemo device =) Nov 18 10:59:28 johnx: yep he claim Nov 18 10:59:41 johnx: but we will see :) Nov 18 10:59:42 johnx: maemo related folk have been saying this year+3 for dropping symbian for few years in few places now Nov 18 10:59:45 wazd: So, who bribed you? =) Nov 18 11:00:07 glass_, first I heard it, but I figured it was coming Nov 18 11:00:07 and "n-series" is just a naming convention Nov 18 11:00:08 I have to laugh at Engadget calling S60 5th "mature" Nov 18 11:00:08 wazd: Has military fallen THAT low now? =) Nov 18 11:00:15 "Geriatric" is the word they're looking for. Nov 18 11:00:21 johnx: i heard it circa 3 years ago first :D Nov 18 11:00:32 glass_, yeah sounds like splitting the current N to become X for symbian and N for Maemo Nov 18 11:00:44 * lcukn900 is still on the floor Nov 18 11:00:51 online as it happens Nov 18 11:01:08 johnx: yea, that looks like the plan Nov 18 11:01:12 lcukn900, can you confirm it then? Nov 18 11:01:13 Nmaemo Nov 18 11:01:24 maemoN? Nov 18 11:01:31 confirm what Nov 18 11:01:35 maemonokia Nov 18 11:01:36 i deny everything Nov 18 11:01:41 i wasnt there Nov 18 11:01:51 * GeneralAntilles really hates Engadget. Nov 18 11:02:11 and i was on a different chan and until xchat is fixed i cannot scrollbakc Nov 18 11:02:30 perhaps maemo select will disappear and extras will be featured prominently? Nov 18 11:02:34 GeneralAntilles, but their commenters are priceless. the troll/honest-comment ratio is beyond any theoretical maximum I've ever seen Nov 18 11:02:48 lol Nov 18 11:03:24 I mean, on the latest nokia/maemo/symbian story, one guy didn't even *read* the *headline* he was commenting on Nov 18 11:03:35 general, you hate everything Nov 18 11:03:52 what do you like about maemo etc Nov 18 11:03:54 how do people like that not get lost inside their own house? Nov 18 11:03:58 lcukn900, hardly. Nov 18 11:04:00 lcukn900, so where are you on the floor of? Nov 18 11:04:13 johnx: maybe they do get lost inside their own house, thus they're online pretty much Nov 18 11:04:20 euston station concourse Nov 18 11:04:35 waiting to find platform number Nov 18 11:04:40 glass_, until that fateful day when they stick a fork into a wall socket? Nov 18 11:04:45 anyone has any idea how to get the AC3 codec onto the N900 so that the media player supports it? I'm getting kind of tired having to transcode audio to MP3 Nov 18 11:05:04 i keep wanting to stand at the front and get everyone to smile Nov 18 11:05:18 so i can take a pic Nov 18 11:05:20 lcukn900, ok, stop what you're doing, go to the london N900 meetup, and ask the guys there if they're dropping symbian for maemo on the N series by 2012 Nov 18 11:05:30 they are all looking the right way Nov 18 11:05:31 Heh Nov 18 11:05:52 johnx: bbq-fork is easier to stick in Nov 18 11:05:52 johnx i ws at the meetup Nov 18 11:06:05 regular forks are hard :\ Nov 18 11:06:10 and it makes no sense to drop symbian Nov 18 11:06:31 glass_, I think we need to have outlets designed to accept forks more easily... Nov 18 11:06:51 seriously why is that even a consideration? i would however love for nokia devices to choose os when you open the box Nov 18 11:07:13 bbl platform 2 Nov 18 11:07:22 alright, so then you heard differently than this other guy who claims to have been at the meetup and says that Nokia announced they were dropping symbian on Nseries Nov 18 11:07:34 hmm...I wonder if we might see the current "linux" smartphone OSes become more gnu-like in order to decrease fragmentation/marketshare issues Nov 18 11:07:54 GNU-like? hmm? Nov 18 11:08:01 you mean more interoperable? Nov 18 11:08:16 easier for app developers by way of becoming like say...debian Nov 18 11:08:26 lcukn900: maemo in it's current state couldn't work as os for majority of current n-series devices Nov 18 11:08:29 (or insert desktop distro here) Nov 18 11:08:55 dmj726, no. they're moving away from that Nov 18 11:09:18 * GeneralAntilles thinks he can actually swing the Barcelona weekend. Nov 18 11:09:30 glass yet Nov 18 11:09:32 dmj726, Maemo4 was more desktop-like than Maemo5 in a lot of ways Nov 18 11:09:45 ...not just refering to nokia Nov 18 11:09:55 dmj726, android won't. limo won't Nov 18 11:09:55 (and I'm not talking ui here) Nov 18 11:10:18 web os is so far away from desktop linux it's not worth considering Nov 18 11:10:23 lcukn900: what i could believe is that there's plans to use maemo more in high end, but n-series doesn't mean high end Nov 18 11:10:35 crashanddie ui...how come?? Nov 18 11:11:09 crashanddie sorry for the late reply :) had lunch ;) Nov 18 11:11:25 lcukn900: a first-run screen to choose between Symbian and Maemo? Nov 18 11:12:06 android doesn't even use the same libc as maemo or desktop linux. who knows about web os at all. and as for limo, their previous examples were pretty locked down and also limited market. maybe that will change, but I don't really believe it Nov 18 11:12:22 LiMo Nov 18 11:12:28 LiMo is scary. Nov 18 11:12:44 just trying to figure out how the smartphone market will trend with all these competitors Nov 18 11:12:50 why scary? Nov 18 11:13:10 s/scary/pathetic/ maybe? Nov 18 11:13:21 joke likely pathetic Nov 18 11:13:31 johnx, mostly pathetic, yeah. Nov 18 11:13:37 But talk about leveraging Linux for evil. Nov 18 11:13:40 or maybe scary like a sack of body parts in a paper bag Nov 18 11:13:46 That Nov 18 11:13:51 what's evil about it? Nov 18 11:13:53 heh. this is like the opposite of leverage Nov 18 11:14:07 dmj726, take Android, but 100 times worse. Nov 18 11:14:10 this is like building a lever and hitting yourself with it while telling people what an awesome time you're having Nov 18 11:14:32 Pay-to-play open source abuse. Nov 18 11:14:36 so Maemo >> LiMo Nov 18 11:14:43 pay-to-play? Nov 18 11:14:46 dmj726: if you got no access to anything, what fun is it that it runs linux? Nov 18 11:15:06 not very...FOSS doesn't help me much with my TV set Nov 18 11:15:08 about as much fun as a sony COM1/COM2 :) Nov 18 11:15:11 could run rtos or ericcson os or whatever and it would be just as useful for th euser Nov 18 11:15:56 my initial reaction against the GPL3 was that it was pretty over-the-top anti-corporate...but I'm beginning to change my tune a little bit Nov 18 11:16:05 Heh Nov 18 11:16:05 not fully decided, but it's certainly an interesting debate Nov 18 11:16:49 RMS can sometimes be scarily precient Nov 18 11:17:09 and sometimes just scarily anti-social :) Nov 18 11:17:20 really hard to figure out what's happening on which day Nov 18 11:17:23 yeah Nov 18 11:17:33 johnx, it'd be nice if respecting the spirit of things were more popular. ;) Nov 18 11:17:37 lol Nov 18 11:18:17 howtohack tab complete on xchat Nov 18 11:18:19 GeneralAntilles, yeah. then we'd all be using BSD and Mac OS X would be a free layer that sat on top Nov 18 11:18:21 on n900 Nov 18 11:18:55 webos apps vs linux apps for palm's OS?...strange Nov 18 11:20:08 mmmm blt Nov 18 11:20:34 i even had pineapple strawberry n yogurt breakfast Nov 18 11:21:40 * GeneralAntilles can't even begin to imagine what Nokia would do with Palm. Nov 18 11:22:08 GeneralAntilles, keep their designers, and get some people making sure that webkit behaves well Nov 18 11:22:25 I'd love Nokia buying Palm Nov 18 11:22:29 and also: free "wireless" charger with every Nokia phone :) Nov 18 11:22:34 * GeneralAntilles wonders what kind of $$$ numbers are involved. Nov 18 11:22:41 Make pretty little babies! Nov 18 11:23:02 * Lynoure is in process of moving from Palm Treo 650 to N900 Nov 18 11:23:03 They're just buying them for their Folio. Nov 18 11:23:06 Morning Nov 18 11:23:34 are they buying them? or is this a little rumour? Nov 18 11:23:42 Rumor Nov 18 11:23:48 How about use that billion in cash for anti-patent lobbying? Nov 18 11:24:12 * GeneralAntilles wants more Maemo devices. Nov 18 11:24:26 would solve the entire patent portfolio issue and nobody else is going to spend that much lobbying against them Nov 18 11:24:38 backwards train is odd Nov 18 11:25:01 im gonna spend 2 hours reversing Nov 18 11:25:18 dmj726: Nobody is interested in solving that problem for their competitors. Nov 18 11:25:25 "First regional Maemo Developer Days starting in Copenhagen in 2 hours." <- eh? Nov 18 11:25:46 its a long day lol Nov 18 11:25:47 derf, except Microsoft :) Nov 18 11:26:05 hehe...just saying it could end up being a better option than buying palm for their patents...not that it would be done Nov 18 11:26:35 M$ isn't in the patent ending mindset Nov 18 11:26:59 dmj726, oh, it definitely is Nov 18 11:27:15 M$ wants to end patents? Nov 18 11:27:34 evidence? Nov 18 11:27:34 software patents at least Nov 18 11:27:34 software patents I mean Nov 18 11:27:58 I'll be glad to join M$ in the fight against software patents. Nov 18 11:28:07 agreed. Nov 18 11:28:09 isn't this rumour based on the fact that they want to buy "Plum" Nov 18 11:28:16 which has nothing to do with Palm. Nov 18 11:28:20 i think it is Nov 18 11:28:21 And as such is a stupid rumour. Nov 18 11:28:41 Whats "plum"? :P Nov 18 11:28:42 dmj726, can't find my source...starting to doubt my memory now :/ Nov 18 11:28:59 Except the fruit.. ;P Nov 18 11:29:00 Gates was against them in the early 90s. Nov 18 11:29:17 Because he didn't have any. Nov 18 11:29:23 dm: that was before he had his own portfolio built up. Nov 18 11:29:32 Now, he's big into patent fud himself. Nov 18 11:30:03 yeah...now he's the established player Nov 18 11:30:22 Plum is http://www.plum.com/ Nov 18 11:30:50 http://media-newswire.com/release_1099224.html and here's that nokia bought them. Nov 18 11:31:30 Ah, thanks Nov 18 11:41:46 wow. this is really weird. I swear I heard MS come out against software patents at some point. probably when they were being sued Nov 18 11:41:54 obviously I took it to mean more than it actually did Nov 18 11:42:21 this is the same company brandishing them at us Nov 18 11:42:50 yeah, but they have lots of money to lose too Nov 18 11:43:05 they're the cash cow that every little patent troll comes after Nov 18 11:43:14 and a big portfolio that lets them crosslicense Nov 18 11:43:24 not always Nov 18 11:43:29 of course there are the trolls Nov 18 11:43:46 patent trolls aren't interested in cross-licensing. they don't do anything except sue Nov 18 11:43:55 easy to avoid patents when that's all you do Nov 18 11:45:09 m$ recently patented sudo Nov 18 11:45:10 xD Nov 18 11:45:17 I found that hilarious. Nov 18 11:45:22 that'll hold up in court Nov 18 11:45:35 riiight. Nov 18 11:45:40 http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20091111094923390 Nov 18 11:45:43 even when they mention user interfaces...it's still just gksudo Nov 18 11:45:50 yeah Nov 18 11:46:05 wait...hasn't linux had that for years? Nov 18 11:46:13 looks that Ms sudo works different from our sudo. Nov 18 11:46:28 it works shittier and is called UAC Nov 18 11:46:33 "Oh, good grief! This concept goes back way past BSD, back to the mainframe days. (See, for example, the XDS Sigma 7 UTS Reference manual (1971), Appendix B, the listing for monitor error code 09, subcode 00: "The user privilege level was not high enough to allow issuing a direct device OPEN".)" Nov 18 11:46:49 the concept has been around for decades. Nov 18 11:46:58 And now m$ "invented" it Nov 18 11:47:00 xD Nov 18 11:47:02 ...I was referring to just the gksudo bits Nov 18 11:47:27 that said...sudo is so old it's not even patentable Nov 18 11:47:31 goshawkATPoliMi: Pol MI.. Politecnico di Milano? Nov 18 11:47:42 gksudo has been written around 1980, yes. Nov 18 11:47:42 gnuton: yes Nov 18 11:47:54 goshawkATPoliMi: :D Nice to see anther italian here :D Nov 18 11:48:08 :) room T0.1 right now ;) Nov 18 11:55:12 * Shapeshifter wants a UK key layout not this lame QWERTZ keyboard with just two arrow keys. Will use the UK mapping anyway. Nov 18 11:55:27 Morning, all Nov 18 11:55:46 hi Jaffa Nov 18 11:55:47 2 arrow keys? Nov 18 11:55:48 Moin, moin. Nov 18 11:56:05 good morning Jaffa Nov 18 11:56:06 dmj726: most of europe will have only left and right, no up and down. Nov 18 11:56:14 heh...that sucks Nov 18 11:56:17 Jaffa: I hear you lot were out on the lash last night? Nov 18 11:56:18 isntead there will be buttons for é and the likes. Nov 18 11:56:28 would make emulators and games harder Nov 18 11:56:28 hi Jaffa Nov 18 11:56:46 dmj726: that's why many will probably use a UK/US layout. Nov 18 11:57:15 yeah...and games could theoretically just pretend that the changed keys are arrows Nov 18 11:57:54 I suppose Europeans in countries with more characters than English has are used to switching layouts? Nov 18 11:58:00 dmj726: well sure, the keyboard is the same, just the layout is different Nov 18 11:58:25 dmj726: well usually there are enough keys on a keyboard to use our own layouts. I use the Swiss-german layout all the time. Nov 18 11:58:39 I did find the keyboards in Spain much better for writing Spanish than the US ones Nov 18 11:58:58 but on an n900 I can gladly do without keys for äöü and such. Nov 18 11:59:11 (that statement should not be controversial) Nov 18 11:59:28 lardman: There was *some* lashage, indeed. Nov 18 11:59:39 I've heard that programmers like English keyboards. Nov 18 12:00:12 Jaffa: Just realised I could probably have made it, had I realised, as my wife is in London today Nov 18 12:00:14 ah well Nov 18 12:00:31 dmj726: switching whole keyboard layouts or just minor reinterpretation of layouts for things like games? Nov 18 12:00:31 Shapeshifter: press Fn+Ctrl, in the popup select a combining char from third row. finally press the letter Nov 18 12:01:00 I certainly would say that switching layouts, especially to unmarked ones, is not something that regular users do "natively" Nov 18 12:01:02 Shapeshifter: "u gives you ü Nov 18 12:01:21 how about for games...will this phase regular users? Nov 18 12:01:32 tbf: well, I'd xmodmap some fn+something key to ¨ so that typing ¨u will give me ü like on a normal keyboard. Nov 18 12:01:35 dmj726: ^^ Nov 18 12:01:45 oh well, people might be better to adapt different keyboard variants on specific devices, though. Nov 18 12:01:57 and I don't need é è and à. Nov 18 12:02:20 Shapeshifter: all "André" you know will be pissed :-D Nov 18 12:02:27 :P Nov 18 12:02:29 I've seen keys that change their labels depending on the orientation of the device and the application. Nov 18 12:03:10 much bigger issue than the keyboard layout in my opinion, regarding games, is that there's no really practical key input on the device at all (at least d-pad), and the situation is reasonably similar on most other devices too Nov 18 12:03:51 something like two keys on each side of keyboard plus accelerator control seems most reasonable in the case of n900 to me Nov 18 12:04:16 or single-finger tapping and some acceleration sensor work on the screen only Nov 18 12:04:28 dmj726: Isn't that done with E-Ink? I think I've seen it done on a Motorola mobile phone... Nov 18 12:04:36 kirma: someone had the clever idea of putting a "dpad" on the screen in the lower right corner. I think that could work well with many emulators at least as these often don't use the widescreen layout so there will be space on the left and right anway. Nov 18 12:04:59 no if only there were a way to add a dpad and a few buttons Nov 18 12:05:06 shapeshifter: might work. Nov 18 12:05:13 Even in maemo4 there are games that depend on a specific keyboard layouts.. Nov 18 12:05:13 yeah e ink Nov 18 12:06:01 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=34543&highlight=dpad here's the link to the idea Nov 18 12:06:01 lunch time! Nov 18 12:06:10 I like the first picture idea. Nov 18 12:06:50 except for pure portable game consoles, devices have always huge compromises when it comes to gameplay. I don't think there is a single device that's really good at that now in the market... there's just good bullshitting Nov 18 12:07:17 hmm...bluetooth...controller... Nov 18 12:07:56 yep, some sort of very small bt controller would solve things. Nov 18 12:08:25 actually it would be interesting to see a controller that the n900 sits inside Nov 18 12:08:40 making it look sorta like a psp Nov 18 12:08:51 it would have buttons/dpad on either side Nov 18 12:09:24 If you pair 2 n900's you get a very fast Nintendo DS :P Nov 18 12:09:34 theoretically not a bad idea, just very model-specific stuff to implement Nov 18 12:09:58 yeah...perhaps make it to fit most 3.5 inch phones? Nov 18 12:10:01 phone-specific frame that would host universal BT HID device with battery... Nov 18 12:10:36 you could probably make something that would work with n900, iphone, and Droid Nov 18 12:10:39 it might be hard to make "universal" also "studry" Nov 18 12:10:47 Meh. I think I'll still just carry along my PSP for gaming. Nov 18 12:10:51 providing there was bt support on those Nov 18 12:11:01 Pictures from last night: http://www.flickr.com/photos/slauwers/tags/stmartinslanehotel/ Nov 18 12:11:13 * dmj726 has not had a portable game thing since the gameboy color Nov 18 12:11:50 the PSP is pretty cool. Though I don't have time for gaming anyway so I haven't used it for months already. Nov 18 12:11:50 that you lcuk? Nov 18 12:12:05 Gaming is something that I do occasionally Nov 18 12:12:18 I've spent more time making games than playing them of late Nov 18 12:12:53 * kirma has had no portable game thingie (specifically for games!) since mickey-mouse-collects-eggs kind of monochrome LCD display thing with game-specific shapes on screen :) Nov 18 12:13:10 that'd be portable in comparison to any of things mentioned Nov 18 12:13:32 although very eighties-style... Nov 18 12:13:34 does an eee pc with soduku count? Nov 18 12:15:47 No Nov 18 12:16:30 what if it has blender? Nov 18 12:18:10 the n900 has a blender? ;) Nov 18 12:18:12 coool Nov 18 12:18:16 eee pc Nov 18 12:18:32 the eee pc has a blender? How are the smoothies? Nov 18 12:18:40 ...I can confirm the usability of blender at 800x480 (on desktop) Nov 18 12:19:14 erm...kinda warm...theblender is the cpu fan Nov 18 12:19:22 aww Nov 18 12:21:02 fits nicely in the pocket though Nov 18 12:22:16 The only portable game thingy I've had is the N8xx ^.^ Nov 18 12:22:46 Actually, I had a Psion Series 3 Nov 18 12:23:07 That had a game I was pretty addicted too, can't remember the name though Nov 18 12:23:30 I think it was called "Bounce" ... Which is interesting. Nov 18 12:28:41 i can imagine n900 as a good gaming handheld Nov 18 12:29:58 I miss the GameBoy Pocket. Nov 18 12:30:09 Wish it had a dpad Nov 18 12:30:15 fdheycjxvm qasgnowkl. Nov 18 12:30:32 I had the color variant of the gboy pocket Nov 18 12:30:36 Interesting, somehow got a return out of that. Nov 18 12:31:01 ? Nov 18 12:32:25 That was my silly little "How many simultaneous keypresses does this thing handle?" test. Nov 18 12:32:45 the n900? Nov 18 12:33:27 Yeah Nov 18 12:33:36 cool Nov 18 12:33:40 on-screen dpad without multitouch is problematic unless one starts to half-guess effects of multiple pressure points of specific combinations on the sensor Nov 18 12:33:53 * GAN900 <- Nov 18 12:34:02 it *can* work to some extent, mmaybe. Nov 18 12:35:20 kirma: nah I think it would work well, of course only if that's the only thing on-screen. The rest would still need to be on the keyboard. Nov 18 12:35:46 d-pad *plus* A/B buttons, you know? Nov 18 12:35:46 yeah dpad usually doesn't do 2 directions at once Nov 18 12:35:49 or whatever Nov 18 12:36:06 but combining d pad with a and b would be an issue Nov 18 12:36:57 actually, it wouldn't be necessarily an huge issue... it would just require good placement of "buttons" and somewhat more intelligent processing of the data Nov 18 12:37:30 if there are only two pressure points at the same time on the display, the read result is something on line between those Nov 18 12:38:08 if lines are properly enough separable and user action not too wizardric, I think it could be figured out Nov 18 12:38:52 crashanddie_ hmmm...still curious :)) Nov 18 12:39:09 I'd personally like a number of simple 3D games that take nice advantage of the hardware Nov 18 12:39:31 (in addition to classics like card games, chess, soduku etc Nov 18 12:39:47 I'd personally like C64 games if controls are made bearable ;) Nov 18 12:40:31 and a simple RTS would be awesome Nov 18 12:40:42 touchscreen A/B + accelerator direction might work too Nov 18 12:40:54 acceleration sensor even Nov 18 12:41:34 you would of course want to have the accelerator be changeable to keys in the event of bumpy roads Nov 18 12:43:34 theoretically one could use IR proximity sensor as one input outside touchscreen Nov 18 12:44:05 but that might be harder to attach and force-ignore on other parts of the software Nov 18 12:44:14 hmm...Half-Linux Nov 18 12:45:09 With Tux Freedom and Alnix Vax Nov 18 12:45:23 I don't see how you could make touchscreen a/b + d-pad work without putting a and b inconveniently far apart Nov 18 12:45:39 mzz: yes, that's a challenge Nov 18 12:45:57 kirma: not so much "a challenge" as "impossible" unless you can make some assumptions about your input, I think. Nov 18 12:46:06 one at a time Nov 18 12:46:06 no, as I said, without multitouch that is pretty damn impossible. Only the d-pad would go onscreen, the rest needs to stay on the keyboard Nov 18 12:46:12 I don't see a problem with that. Nov 18 12:46:14 pressure level is supposedly also readable from input? Nov 18 12:46:42 you probably could mostly do it if you assume the d-pad and the a/b buttons don't change simultaneously Nov 18 12:47:12 and I lie, still wouldn't quite work: I don't think you could detect whether a+right just changed into b+right or a+left Nov 18 12:47:33 the puns weren't too subtle were they? Nov 18 12:47:50 err, that example's broken, but you get the idea Nov 18 12:48:54 from raw sensor data, one might be able to work out things, but preprocessed, filtered data would probably be way too mangled to serve much purpose in such hackery Nov 18 12:52:26 Hmm.. one operator (here in finland) is stating that nokia has told them that the operator can start delivering N900's at friday the 4 of december, I believe this is the case for others too Nov 18 12:52:56 re Nov 18 12:53:10 ah! still no Jeremiah, where is he? Nov 18 12:53:16 nokia flagship store would start selling 27 of november, and preorder deliveries start on 20 of november Nov 18 12:54:03 kirma: yes, i'm aware of that, as nokia earlier has stated, those that preordered from them will get the devices first :) Nov 18 12:54:05 somehow I'm a pessimist about getting the device on friday, going to lose that weekend anyway ;) Nov 18 12:54:28 you ordered directly from nokia? Nov 18 12:54:44 they could really have started on thursday, thus making express deliveries actually deliver before weekend... Nov 18 12:54:48 yes Nov 18 12:54:58 hmm, seems the addition of gdigicam hasn't solved my linking problems.... Nov 18 12:55:02 I ordered from Saunalahti Nov 18 12:55:27 Right boys & girls, I need some linker advice, from people who use gstreamer Nov 18 12:55:41 Oh, shit, the "Nokia will ditch Symbian for Maemo" thing is all over the news now Nov 18 12:55:53 yeah Nov 18 12:56:23 it's not like that would be big news or anything Nov 18 12:56:31 lardman: if you mean ld, ask. If you mean some gstreamer feature, no idea Nov 18 12:56:40 lardman, what's up Nov 18 12:56:43 If I want to link against one of the gst plugins (as well as the main libgstreamer), should I need to manually supply a linker path (-L) or should it come from pkg-config? Nov 18 12:56:52 lardman, don't link to a plugin :) Nov 18 12:56:53 as it doesn't Nov 18 12:56:57 hmm Nov 18 12:57:09 lardman, why do you want to link to a plugin? Nov 18 12:57:09 how do I use a function supplied by the plugin then? Nov 18 12:57:19 what functions are you talking about? Nov 18 12:57:19 lardman: AFAIK plugins do not have .pc files so -L it is\ Nov 18 12:57:26 I need to use the gst_photography functions defined in camerabin Nov 18 12:57:32 aaah Nov 18 12:57:39 that is different Nov 18 12:57:47 RST38h: some do actually, but none of their output contains -L stuff Nov 18 12:57:52 let me tell you the answer, give me a sec Nov 18 12:57:56 thanks Nov 18 12:58:51 lol Nov 18 12:59:03 Apparently the N97 mini uses Maemo 5 Nov 18 12:59:11 ? Nov 18 12:59:17 you're joking Nov 18 12:59:28 guess someone got their reporting wires crossed Nov 18 12:59:34 lardman, pkg-config -L gstreamer-plugins-bad-0.10 Nov 18 12:59:42 link? Nov 18 12:59:56 zaheerm-lp: unknown option Nov 18 13:00:15 http://gizmodo.com/5407319/nokias-n+series-will-ditch-symbian-for-maemo-by-2012 Nov 18 13:00:30 dmj726, dumbass bloggers. ;) Nov 18 13:00:31 pkg-config --libs-only-L gstreamer-plugins-bad-0.10 ?? Nov 18 13:00:40 that gives an empty string though Nov 18 13:00:51 um...no it doesn't Nov 18 13:01:05 dmj726: really? Nov 18 13:01:12 lardman, pkg-config --libs gstreamer-plugins-bad-0.10 Nov 18 13:01:12 -pthread -lgstphotography-0.10 -lgstbase-0.10 -lgstreamer-0.10 -lgobject-2.0 -lgmodule-2.0 -lgthread-2.0 -lrt -lxml2 -lglib-2.0 Nov 18 13:01:13 :P Nov 18 13:01:36 dmj726, yeah, no shit. Nov 18 13:01:53 if they hadn't mentioned the n900 right next to it and used the word "and" I would have thought it a type Nov 18 13:01:56 *typo Nov 18 13:02:03 zaheerm-lp: hmm, sure I tried that, hang on let me see Nov 18 13:02:54 lardman, i did this in my scratchbox Nov 18 13:03:03 zaheerm-lp: ah, wunderbar, worked as planned. Doh! on my part Nov 18 13:03:23 lardman, no worries Nov 18 13:03:29 thanks Nov 18 13:03:30 GAN900: I got a frantic SMS from Peter about this this morning Nov 18 13:03:56 Jaffa, who was his source? :) Nov 18 13:03:59 heh... what happened? Nov 18 13:04:40 zaheerm-lp: No idea. Nov 18 13:04:46 lbt: http://thereallymobileproject.com/2009/11/nokia-dropping-symbian-from-n-series-by-2012/ Nov 18 13:05:15 what did Peter have to say? Nov 18 13:05:36 I saw, wondered if you knew what had been said Nov 18 13:06:59 There wasn't any announcement about anything in that article (Symbian future or Ovi Store being the only mechanism); nor during the Q&A Nov 18 13:07:27 too much free beer to nokia folks? ;) Nov 18 13:07:33 OK ta Nov 18 13:07:36 Either it's mostly made up by misunderstanding comments during a chat with someone; or it's all true Nov 18 13:07:45 Or it's all made up Nov 18 13:07:55 Or... Nov 18 13:07:56 it's the sort of thing that comes up when mobile people go to a pub Nov 18 13:08:05 Jaffa: doesn't that cover all possibilities? Nov 18 13:08:07 * lbt pushes the boundaries of tristate Nov 18 13:08:07 no Nov 18 13:08:32 or it is a little bit speculation with a lot of feeding by someone there Nov 18 13:08:36 it could've been a plant from Android^WiPhone^WLimo^WPalm^WBadu!! ;) Nov 18 13:08:54 yeah, but that sms was "frantic" Nov 18 13:09:13 * lbt looks for the "send frantically" button on the maemo UI Nov 18 13:09:34 * lbt finds it right next to the MMS button Nov 18 13:09:57 Everyone knows that Peter only uses an iphone. Nov 18 13:10:11 An iPhone running Maemo 6 Nov 18 13:10:16 yes Nov 18 13:10:28 Borg Nov 18 13:10:36 * lbt waits for an iBorg Nov 18 13:10:50 Oh, wait, that would be 7-of-9 Nov 18 13:10:55 mmmm Nov 18 13:10:55 already released...people just havent figured it out yet Nov 18 13:11:03 Jaffa: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=380041&postcount=154 seems like the source of the articles i'd say Nov 18 13:11:31 there will be metallic tendrils coming out of the devices where the stylus should have been! Nov 18 13:11:42 Nokia wont drop Symbian for a long time yet. Nov 18 13:12:10 the Nseries rumor makes sense, but it doesn't really mean that it would be factually verifiable stuff this time Nov 18 13:12:29 especially the 2012 timeframe is more than just barely believable Nov 18 13:12:35 The man years of 3rd party developers since S60's debut is pretty insane, and non-one has really adopted Qt, which is the only real migration path. Nov 18 13:12:37 There is a HUGE difference between "dropping from n-series" and "dropping completly" :P Nov 18 13:12:38 i would find it hard for nokia to actually know for sure what os they're going to ship in what named os in 2012 Nov 18 13:12:59 n-series is just a marketing term (observe the freshly launched x-series) Nov 18 13:13:01 suihkulokki: the further away from the source the more convuluted the message gets :P Nov 18 13:13:12 indeed Nov 18 13:13:13 glass_: you say that, but Maemo has been incubating and moving along their agenda for at least 5 years? Nov 18 13:13:30 especially since it says symbian going to E-series Nov 18 13:13:38 alterego: yes, but as i've said before i've listened to "they'll drop symbian in favor of maemo" for 3 years Nov 18 13:13:46 Qt move on Symbian should really be done by 2012 Nov 18 13:13:58 hell, it should be done to considerable extent already late 2010 Nov 18 13:14:01 "... from the entire ‘top end’ N-Series range of handsets ..." Nov 18 13:14:08 That's exactly what they've been sxaying all along. Nov 18 13:14:09 alterego: usually the commenter/comments not taking into account anything, like what kind of devices and what hw and how cheap they're supposed to be or etc.. Nov 18 13:14:50 Expect to see maemo on the new N97 like flagship high-end devices, Nov 18 13:14:57 well doh, n900 Nov 18 13:15:03 Don't expect it on N8X series or N7X series devices. Nov 18 13:15:23 But there's really no difference there to what they've always been saying. Nov 18 13:15:29 they're still doing a a lot of xxxx-number models too Nov 18 13:15:56 I don't think there will be symbian on the nokia flagships ever again Nov 18 13:16:11 sad reality, time to learn new platforms Nov 18 13:16:21 it's not that sad Nov 18 13:16:37 I think there would be a lot of complaints if Nokia followed up the n900 with a symbian device Nov 18 13:16:42 no, because symbian is crap... but sad because I know symbian so well :D Nov 18 13:16:45 Yes there will aol, but the kinds of devices that the N95 were and the N97 is, will more than likely be geared toward Maemo, as they're supposed to be the most powerful handsets. Nov 18 13:17:02 alterego: I said flagship Nov 18 13:17:13 Just think though...lots of people know the new OS already! Nov 18 13:17:17 flagship for a product line .. Nov 18 13:17:23 flagship meaning N95, N96, N97... :) Nov 18 13:17:31 YEah, one line :P Nov 18 13:17:39 symbian itself isn't crap if the top of the S60 stack is replaced with well-thought-out Qt and it's pushed to higher-middle segment phones Nov 18 13:17:43 Or, "liner" if we're talking ships ;) Nov 18 13:17:45 hi all, does anyone know what web browser macuco gmail client uses? Nov 18 13:17:51 I guess there will be s60 flagship ... but who knows what is S40 flagship right now? or S30? yes, NO ONE CARES ! :D Nov 18 13:18:08 S30 and S40 don't exist. Nov 18 13:18:09 kirma: i see it pushing to cheapos, where maemo doesn't have much place Nov 18 13:18:15 flagship is not the word to use for those Nov 18 13:18:17 s40 exists Nov 18 13:18:17 Not anymore :P Nov 18 13:18:24 Yeah, my mistake, Nov 18 13:18:28 kirma: symbian is efficient and fast but the API's kill creativity like nothing else Nov 18 13:18:29 S40 is still alive ^.^ Nov 18 13:18:47 So why is my N96 so god awefully slow? :P Nov 18 13:18:51 kirma: it's sad fact that symbian is over engineered to death Nov 18 13:18:55 aol: There is no problem adding standard POSIX APIs on top of Symbian Nov 18 13:18:59 alterego: 'cause n96 blows ;D Nov 18 13:19:07 aol: Combine that with Qt and you have got a decent little OS Nov 18 13:19:08 RST38h: OpenC :) Nov 18 13:19:10 well, anything below high-end smartphones is much muddier to separate from each other... but the "cheapos" are really ones with monochrome screen and sold for 20 euros or so in africa Nov 18 13:19:10 alterego: n97 could be said to be less powerful than n95 too Nov 18 13:19:13 They've already done that. Nov 18 13:19:18 alterego: still no main() though? Nov 18 13:19:21 They use glib/gobject in OpenC too. Nov 18 13:19:28 RST38h: yeah good job implementing Open C++, it is awfully buggy and slow :( Nov 18 13:19:29 how about replacing the symbian kernel with Linux and the Symbian userspace with Debian? Nov 18 13:19:29 you could've had main() for ages in symbian Nov 18 13:19:32 RST38h: yeah, you can write apps with 'main' Nov 18 13:19:35 not that it's too useful though Nov 18 13:19:41 S40 might replace S30 and new Qt-based Symbian replace S40 Nov 18 13:19:47 glass: Well that is different main() :) Nov 18 13:19:49 RST38h: I'm not saying theres no good in symbian, but the implementation and execution has always been awful Nov 18 13:19:58 glass: But yes, sincle Symbian 9.1 (S60e3) Nov 18 13:20:14 potentially even S40 might adapt Qt for internal development (I think it should be a goal, only problem is if it's possible) Nov 18 13:20:15 the api's buggy and non existent documentation Nov 18 13:20:31 I just wish symbian.org would have happened 2-3 years ago Nov 18 13:20:31 RST38h: well, before that too. but to what good? most apps need ui not convinient to do from console exe Nov 18 13:20:31 now its too late Nov 18 13:20:51 glass: And the UI is a freaking abomination Nov 18 13:21:05 kirma google for qt and S40 Nov 18 13:21:17 s30' Nov 18 13:21:19 s30' Nov 18 13:21:19 glass: Ok, Eikon was still relatively sane, but Nokia broke it and added Avkon which is crazy Nov 18 13:21:20 arg Nov 18 13:21:39 glass: [notice: isn't this what Nokia is doing to GTK+ in Maemo5? ;)] Nov 18 13:21:50 RST38h: yeh they're so crap that most people that end up writing decent looking dynamic stuff just end up doing their own drawing Nov 18 13:22:22 suihkulokki: oh yeah... haven't really been looking at the situation so intensely lately, I think I were pretty certain things going that direction around midsummer last year... Nov 18 13:22:22 dos was fun :\ Nov 18 13:23:10 "i have a ds and love the game big brain acamedy. it allows you to play against someone with a ds even if they dont have the game. Is the n900 capable of this on blue tooth wifi." -- kryptoniankid17, Sep 2009 Nov 18 13:23:20 glass_: like on nokia 9110 Nov 18 13:23:36 * RST38h facepalms Nov 18 13:23:44 So, anyone working on a GPS-fueled, google-streetview, augmented reality app for maemo yet? Nov 18 13:23:51 Oh, + using video camera :) Nov 18 13:23:53 hah Nov 18 13:23:55 Google? Nov 18 13:23:59 s/video camera/camera/ Nov 18 13:24:01 alterego meant: Oh, + using camera :) Nov 18 13:24:10 * RST38h has got a hypothesis on why gnuite has not released Maemo Mapper yet Nov 18 13:24:22 Heh Nov 18 13:24:23 RST38h: he isn't developing on it at all Nov 18 13:24:27 He may be working on the official Google Maps for Maemo ;)) Nov 18 13:24:29 it's another guy Nov 18 13:24:39 Sts: ? Nov 18 13:25:23 check commit logs for maemo mapper Nov 18 13:25:31 hi all, does anyone know what web browser macuco gmail client uses? Nov 18 13:26:03 ..sorry for reposting, but it was missed aparently Nov 18 13:26:11 nokias mistake with S60 was not to throw away AVKON when they did binary break between 2nd/3rd Nov 18 13:26:44 GuySoft_nokia: "My application is a little webkit browser made in Qt that identifies itself as iPhone’s Safari" Nov 18 13:26:44 then it continued to obsolete itself Nov 18 13:26:44 GuySoft_nokia: read the website next time. Nov 18 13:26:44 Sts: Of course he is not! He is working on the secret internal Google app for Maemo! =) Nov 18 13:27:15 Alberto Mardegan Nov 18 13:29:32 how do I refresh my icons? Nov 18 13:30:04 alterego, it seems not to behave as other webkit browsers out there. I was expecting it to be something speific Nov 18 13:30:32 its faster than midori Nov 18 13:31:49 I like this libchamplain stuff. Nov 18 13:31:56 alterego: where's your source code? Nov 18 13:32:03 lardman: for what? :P Nov 18 13:32:12 alterego: macuco Nov 18 13:32:17 lardman: it's not my project :P Nov 18 13:32:32 ah sorry, that was a quote :) Nov 18 13:32:37 :) Nov 18 13:32:54 speaking of libchamplain, anyone fancy doing some more hildonisation on emerillon? Nov 18 13:32:55 YEs, I'd never even heard of macucu until he mentioned it. Nov 18 13:33:17 I quite like the idea of an embedded browser, for map type things.... Nov 18 13:33:51 What's the current state of emerillon for maemo? Nov 18 13:34:04 ah, that source is here anyway: http://github.com/puelocesar/Macuco Nov 18 13:34:12 alterego: it runs ;) Nov 18 13:34:19 menus need hildonisation Nov 18 13:34:24 Oh, so you've just compiled it? Nov 18 13:34:44 nah it's been in the repo for a week or so Nov 18 13:34:44 Ah, someone else compiled it :) Nov 18 13:34:46 no I did Nov 18 13:35:00 Hah, okay. Nov 18 13:35:02 just taking issue with the "just" in your statement :) Nov 18 13:35:23 I dunno, I'm scared to push any more Gtk development seeing as it'll be redundant in a year. Nov 18 13:35:30 yeah Nov 18 13:35:50 nah, not redundant, just not preinstalled on device. for most cases, it would still exist Nov 18 13:35:51 I have a plan for the menus, but haven't got round to implementing it yet Nov 18 13:35:53 Now, libchamplain on Qt might be interesting. Nov 18 13:36:14 Oh, it depends on Gdk :/ Nov 18 13:36:15 why? Nov 18 13:36:39 RST38h: gnuite is in the Google black hole now. You'll never hear from him again. Nov 18 13:37:45 derf: But the information about him will stay there forever! Nov 18 13:38:22 Heh Nov 18 13:38:47 What does KDE have for geolocation infrastructure? Nov 18 13:39:08 geoclue? Nov 18 13:39:16 or is that glib based? Nov 18 13:39:21 Does the flash plugin on the N900 have access to the camera? Nov 18 13:39:36 anyone know how to refresh the icons? Nov 18 13:39:39 It's freedesktop.org based :) Nov 18 13:40:11 Actually, scrap that, can't get GPS info from flash. Nov 18 13:40:19 * alterego sighs Nov 18 13:40:26 not even with a bridge to the location extension? :P Nov 18 13:40:34 * lardman too, extras builder is not letting me through to step 2 Nov 18 13:45:27 * lardman again curses the way mbarcode locks up when you try to close a dialog Nov 18 13:46:14 Anyone looked into getting application popularity statistics for iphone and seeing what we need to get 'em? Nov 18 13:46:49 a few fart apps maybe Nov 18 13:47:03 I'm being serious Nov 18 13:47:34 make every app phone-home Nov 18 13:48:07 lol Nov 18 13:49:07 someone needs to harvest the data from http://www.cocktaildb.com/ and make a app Nov 18 13:49:16 same for recipe sites Nov 18 13:49:16 e Nov 18 13:49:17 t Nov 18 13:49:17 c Nov 18 13:49:18 hi can tell me in where can i found command "maemo-bootstrap" ? dpkg -S $(which maemo-bootstrap) Nov 18 13:49:32 there's a maemo-bootstrap? :P Nov 18 13:49:34 for what purpose? :P Nov 18 13:49:49 I wonder if he's getting confused with debian-boostrap Nov 18 13:49:50 hello Nov 18 13:49:51 Stskeeps: i am wondering :) Nov 18 13:50:00 # /tmp/sb2-maemo-sdk-nokia-binaries_diablo_4.1.2.sh: 70: maemo-rootstrap: not found Nov 18 13:50:08 you mean rootstrap Nov 18 13:50:15 Oh, rootstrap! :) Nov 18 13:50:54 rzr: that's part of sb2 i think Nov 18 13:50:55 err Nov 18 13:50:58 msdk+ Nov 18 13:51:32 can anybody familiar with http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Architecture/Top_Level_Architecture explain why Funambol is listed as a proprietary component? Nov 18 13:51:50 Well, looks like games are most important to iphone users. Nov 18 13:52:53 reed: well, funambol exists as closed source licensing too Nov 18 13:53:04 facebook chat plugin. that's what we need. Nov 18 13:53:13 URgh Nov 18 13:53:18 but yeah, @ aol, to see examples of dumb almost useless applications app store lovers like Nov 18 13:53:20 They have that from pidgin Nov 18 13:53:24 ~for pidgin Nov 18 13:53:26 http://maemo-sdk.garage.maemo.org/maemo-rootstrap.html Nov 18 13:53:32 http://store.ovi.com/publisher/Offscreen/ Nov 18 13:53:33 alterego: I know, I just wonder ... I'll ask Funambol too Nov 18 13:53:54 also doesn't telepathy-purple do that? Nov 18 13:54:00 can anyone check something for me? Put a whole day event for the 3rd December this year and see if it gets displayed in the calendar desktop widget Nov 18 13:54:00 Yes Nov 18 13:54:09 perfect Nov 18 13:54:28 Though, people don't market these things. Nov 18 13:54:52 At least, we don't. I mean, we've had facebook-chat for libpurple for ages, it's not a new thing. Nov 18 13:54:58 So why would we get excited about it? :) Nov 18 13:55:55 http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/11/17/hellads_phase_iv_contracts/ - check out later in the article :) Nov 18 13:56:00 (not n900 related) Nov 18 13:56:08 hmm purple. i'm quite sure there's nothing like that in maemo-extras Nov 18 13:56:34 nope, nothing =/ Nov 18 13:56:39 vesa: it was in testing last time I checked. Nov 18 13:56:46 Or maybe extras-devel Nov 18 13:56:51 ah ok. so it's coming. sweet =) Nov 18 13:56:55 It's a pidgin thing. Nov 18 13:57:06 Jaffa: do you know about syncing contacts then.... :) Nov 18 13:57:48 * vesa has no idea what a pidgin is Nov 18 13:57:54 * lbt was looking at syncevolution last night Nov 18 13:58:02 vesa: pidgin is an im client Nov 18 13:58:09 multi-protocol Nov 18 13:58:22 sharks carrying lasers. Nov 18 13:58:23 riiiiight. Nov 18 13:58:24 IRC/AIM/... Nov 18 13:58:37 alterego, vesa: we've got the pidgin-facebookchat plugin working with the built-in messaging stuff Nov 18 13:58:56 now that's something to get exited about imo =) Nov 18 13:59:07 alterego, vesa: but we needed to fix some bugs in a telepathy library first; not sure if that's made it into a public release Nov 18 13:59:27 I would be a lot more excited with pidgin if it worked in split mode. Nov 18 13:59:36 wjt: you're a contacts person aren't you? Nov 18 13:59:42 As in I can set it up on some server somewhere, and connect to it remotely. Nov 18 13:59:54 Rather than falling offline whenever I lose signal. Nov 18 14:01:41 lbt: oh, were you? Nov 18 14:01:51 *nod* Nov 18 14:01:56 lbt: I want syncevolution for calendars :) Nov 18 14:02:20 didn't get far... also looked at obex Nov 18 14:02:20 Jaffa: oh, i meant to come say hi yesterday; hermes is *sweet* Nov 18 14:02:24 lbt: i'm a telepathy person, not contacts per se Nov 18 14:02:27 Jaffa: me too... Nov 18 14:02:33 wjt: close enough Nov 18 14:02:47 we should, like, finish this and blog it with a video of how to set it up and install it Nov 18 14:02:47 i have a contacts person next door i can shout at... :P Nov 18 14:02:55 not many collaborans on planet maemo though Nov 18 14:03:06 Robot101: yes... we can't until the new tp-glib is out publicly Nov 18 14:03:12 * lbt is looking for the right approach to get contact/cal sync to linux desktop Nov 18 14:03:31 barisione: hey, you should speak to lbt! Nov 18 14:03:31 can maemo extras upgrade "system" software? Nov 18 14:03:34 Robot101: X-Fade will do that in a jiffy Nov 18 14:03:42 when he's back Nov 18 14:03:50 lbt: which, the video and blogging bits? :) Nov 18 14:04:03 don't want Pidgin listed as the "crown jewel" on maemo.org again :P Nov 18 14:04:05 link to planet-maemo Nov 18 14:04:26 ahh Nov 18 14:04:43 wjt, lbt: syncing contacts between linux and n900? Nov 18 14:04:51 barisione: yes Nov 18 14:05:07 * lbt looked at gnokii, syncevolution, obex last night Nov 18 14:05:17 got somewhere with all of them Nov 18 14:05:23 but none 'worked' Nov 18 14:05:38 wondered if anyone had a sane strategy Nov 18 14:05:47 sadly we have sync with outlook, but not with evo... Nov 18 14:05:48 (gnokii sounds wrong) Nov 18 14:05:59 tbh I don't know how all the syncing apps work Nov 18 14:06:05 barisione: yes, is that compatible with obex? Nov 18 14:06:07 between hermes and friendstatus is there any way to update messenger 'status updates' to your phone? Nov 18 14:06:21 skype statuses seem to work fine, only have 1 friend on skype tho =P Nov 18 14:06:35 it's really sad that a linux phone won't talk to linux apps :( Nov 18 14:06:49 especially since it has syncml Nov 18 14:06:59 but not over tcp AFAIUI Nov 18 14:07:14 lbt: there are 2 separate sync things on the n900 from what I know, the one used with other nokia phones (that should be syncml) and exchange Nov 18 14:07:25 so syncevolution does syncml over usb Nov 18 14:07:38 barisione: makes sense Nov 18 14:07:44 but I work on the addressbook and those apps are on top (and closed source) so I don't know how they work exactly Nov 18 14:07:57 *nod* Nov 18 14:08:25 would it make sense to write an open syncml client on the libcontacts base? Nov 18 14:10:32 did you try using the transfer & sync app via bluetooth with linux? Nov 18 14:10:36 what does it do? Nov 18 14:11:38 not bluetooth, just usb Nov 18 14:11:48 usb via obex_client recognises it Nov 18 14:11:56 and sees multiple profiles Nov 18 14:12:03 syncml and pc suite Nov 18 14:12:14 but doesn't negotiate the link Nov 18 14:12:29 I wasn't sure if authentication was needed Nov 18 14:12:49 it's hard to diagnose config bugs with zarro docs Nov 18 14:14:37 wb qwerty12 Nov 18 14:14:46 Thanks, Stskeeps Nov 18 14:20:23 hi ;) Nov 18 14:23:57 Robot: what is wrong with pidgin? Nov 18 14:25:54 RST38h: hey, let's ignore the well-integrated IM support in Maemo and add an application that looks kind of out of place Nov 18 14:27:49 mhhh, there's no irssi for the n900 yet, right? Nov 18 14:28:20 the well-integrated im support sucks even more than pidgin in irc Nov 18 14:28:27 RST38h: we've been working for 4 years, with Nokia, on Telepathy, an IM framework designed to allow the installation of 3rd party protocol plugins with totally native integration into the device Contacts, Conversations and Call Nov 18 14:28:33 cosmo: multi-user chat is being worked on Nov 18 14:28:33 Shapeshifter: why would it have to be ported at all? Nov 18 14:28:52 aep: I'm guessing it already exists for arm? Nov 18 14:28:56 Robot101: that would be nice. for fremantle? Nov 18 14:29:02 Shapeshifter: its C. just recompile Nov 18 14:29:04 cosmo: yeah, a later software update Nov 18 14:29:05 alterego: flash was blocked from camera access. Nov 18 14:29:08 yeah. Nov 18 14:29:16 but it could get gps via the js bridge + the gps extension Nov 18 14:29:45 Robot: So? Nov 18 14:29:54 Robot101: excellent! make it good :-) Nov 18 14:29:57 Robot: Pidgin is still pretty comfortable Nov 18 14:30:25 Robot: Maybe integrating it with Maemo IM framework is a more constructive idea? Nov 18 14:30:27 aep: I meant more like a package in extras Nov 18 14:30:54 RST38h: we have - there's a Telepathy backend which uses the protocol plugins from Pidgin... Nov 18 14:31:08 Robot: No, vice versa Nov 18 14:31:31 Robot: Using plugins from Pidgin while denying Pidgin right to live is not very nice :) Nov 18 14:31:50 RST38h: the point is, if there's going to be a big "GET PIDGIN" advert on maemo.org, why don't we all just give up and go home? I'd rather the Nokia sponsored maemo.org site promoted the technologies Nokia has been sponsoring, so at least its consistent and not a gigantic "f**k you" to their own developers who worked on designing and implementing the built-in stuff Nov 18 14:31:51 Shapeshifter: ah. Nov 18 14:31:57 Robot: What I meant though is accessing Maemo IM through Pidgin UI Nov 18 14:32:08 kill the rat with wings Nov 18 14:32:34 Robot: Ok, I will give you my personal view on that Nov 18 14:32:50 Robot: As far as I am concerned, current Maemo IM is incomplete Nov 18 14:33:08 RST38h: what's missing? Nov 18 14:33:11 Robot: Pidgin fills some holes left open in your implementation Nov 18 14:33:14 the UI for conversations and contacts etc is designed for the device, wedging pidgin on top of that is just going to be bizzare Nov 18 14:33:24 if at all possible Nov 18 14:33:30 Shapeshifter: Cannot lookup details on a previously unknown guy who sent you a message Nov 18 14:33:43 RST38h: you get messages from unknown guys? Nov 18 14:33:48 who doesn't Nov 18 14:33:53 that's a known issue and planned to be fixed, I think Nov 18 14:33:54 me Nov 18 14:33:55 just make the maemo ui better than pidgin and people start using it Nov 18 14:33:59 Shapeshifter: ICQ users who were offline at the moment they were added are left as UINs (no nicks no data) Nov 18 14:34:02 "hey, intrested in cheap glassware?" Nov 18 14:34:05 Shapeshifter: Yes, sometimes Nov 18 14:34:18 pidgin doesn't use e-d-s or telepathy or any of the underlying stuff, you can't just "make it use the framework" Nov 18 14:34:24 Shapeshifter: IRC plugin is disfunctional and the chatroom mode is not even implemented Nov 18 14:34:36 barisione: ^^ when does eds-backend-tp retrieve aliases? Nov 18 14:34:41 mh. I don't really seem to care about these. but I guess it's fixable in their IM thingy, and I find it looks damn well sexy. Nov 18 14:34:50 Robot: Well, can't you write some kind of pidgin plugin that connects to telepathy rater than directy to services? Nov 18 14:34:52 RST38h: IRC is planned to be fixed too Nov 18 14:34:52 irssi is for IRC: Nov 18 14:35:04 well, at least to have a chatroom mode in the UI Nov 18 14:35:06 Robot101: Well, at least process /msgs :) Nov 18 14:35:18 these are all little tweak/polish things, not throw away 2+ years work. Nov 18 14:35:22 Shapeshifter: No way to exchange files via any of the services (Skype, ICQ, IRC, etc) Nov 18 14:35:29 RST38h: I see. Nov 18 14:35:49 Robot: They may feel like zsmall things to you, but to normal users who are used to them they may be show stoppers Nov 18 14:35:58 yep Nov 18 14:36:04 I see the problem. Nov 18 14:36:07 send files is annoying, yeah Nov 18 14:36:11 sharing plugin for contacts could be useful Nov 18 14:36:13 Robot: Ironically, I absolutely LOVE N900's integrated unified IM :) Nov 18 14:36:32 Robot: Just wish it were complete with features people normally expect from IM Nov 18 14:36:38 Does telepahy not have file transfer ability? Nov 18 14:36:39 RST38h: I don't know how ICQ work as I didn't use it for centuries and I have no friends there Nov 18 14:36:52 Robot: I.e. stuff like ICQ Online Chess can burn in Hell :) Nov 18 14:36:57 RST38h: but what you are describing could be due to a bug I'm fixing now Nov 18 14:37:05 Well. Any of these protocolls should be killed anyway and all people should be forced to use jabber >.> Nov 18 14:37:08 utopia. Nov 18 14:37:11 barisione: Well, it is regional Nov 18 14:37:15 RST38h: s/Online Chess// Nov 18 14:37:15 alterego: it does, we're going to implement a UI for it Nov 18 14:37:25 Shapeshifter: what about facebook chat ;) Nov 18 14:37:26 Shapeshifter: distopia =) Nov 18 14:37:38 arghhhhhh facebook chat DIE DIE Nov 18 14:37:43 what an abomination Nov 18 14:37:46 RST38h: it was very popular in italy before they had the service not working properly for italians for months Nov 18 14:37:50 there are always rumours about facebook chat being secretly XMPP and them turning it on one day Nov 18 14:37:54 RST38h: and everybody switched to MSN Nov 18 14:38:05 but, the problem with facebook chat on the device before that is that it will *kill* battery Nov 18 14:38:12 it makes a new HTTP connection every 30 seconds Nov 18 14:38:18 crappy ajax hacks Nov 18 14:38:29 I'm lucky no one really uses it here. People here like skype a lot. Nov 18 14:38:39 which I hate because pidgin doesn't do it. Nov 18 14:38:40 Heh Nov 18 14:38:44 And skype for linux stinks Nov 18 14:38:48 I don't use facebook chat much. Nov 18 14:38:52 I use MSN mostly. Nov 18 14:39:01 Shapeshifter: N900 does skype chat well Nov 18 14:39:19 hey, does someone here have an n900 w/ the official emmc image? Nov 18 14:39:38 * Corsac waits for nov 28 Nov 18 14:39:40 >< Nov 18 14:41:08 suihkulokki: yep. Nov 18 14:41:29 * timeless_mbp pokes Nov 18 14:42:00 * mgedmin has a n900 and an official emmc image, but a n900 with the official emmc image Nov 18 14:42:22 * timeless_mbp tries to parse that Nov 18 14:42:26 * timeless_mbp keeps trying Nov 18 14:43:20 barisione: What is MSN? Something having to deal with Microsoft Office Communicator? =) Nov 18 14:43:43 how does the n900 support skype anyway? Nov 18 14:43:48 I mean, technically Nov 18 14:43:59 skype-sourced binary isn't it/ Nov 18 14:44:14 The IM, you said its telepathy? does telepathy use the skype binary? Nov 18 14:44:40 with skype fully running in the background, just like with the pidgin hack plugin? Nov 18 14:45:19 RST38h: office communicator is different, it is supported by pidgin-sipe Nov 18 14:45:50 Anyway I find it awful that skype doesn't even own the sources to its own protocol. How weak. Nov 18 14:46:07 Shapeshifter: hrm Nov 18 14:46:22 why did ebay do that. Nov 18 14:46:28 you mean that you find it awful that Nokia doesn't own the patents for all the Cellular bits? Nov 18 14:46:30 morons. buying the app but not the source Nov 18 14:46:37 and no Nov 18 14:46:41 it isn't a matter of source Nov 18 14:46:48 it's a matter of licensing Nov 18 14:46:59 timeless_mbp: mh? in the beginning, the protocol and the skype app were developed by the same guy. Nov 18 14:47:03 but he only sold the app Nov 18 14:47:17 timeless_mbp: well okay, licensing. But why would anyone agree to that? Nov 18 14:47:18 suihkulokki Somehow, I prefer to stay with ICQ, although it is definitely evil Nov 18 14:47:21 he's evil. Nov 18 14:47:36 suihkulokki: But I do not want to have multiple evils in my contacts, one is enough Nov 18 14:47:38 moo Nov 18 14:47:42 Shapeshifter: people agree to all sorts of things Nov 18 14:47:49 oom Nov 18 14:48:01 Flandry: you're out of memory? Nov 18 14:48:07 is there xmpp and/or jingle support? Nov 18 14:48:11 yeah Nov 18 14:48:22 not jingle afaik Nov 18 14:48:28 paging to disk, brb Nov 18 14:48:28 (yet) Nov 18 14:48:49 jingle? yes Nov 18 14:48:57 the N800 was the first device to support jingle ever :) Nov 18 14:49:02 but this is bad for everyone. Except the guy owning the protocol. But it's stopping everything. I bet by now skype would have somewhat opened it's protocol if it could. Imagine other people writing skype clients for free and skype earning more bucks because people use their services even without using their client Nov 18 14:49:04 ah, forgot about audio, sorry. Nov 18 14:49:08 It's so stupid. Nov 18 14:49:14 video, well, lets see :) Nov 18 14:49:21 anyway... Nov 18 14:49:24 * RST38h moos at javispedro Nov 18 14:49:25 someone w/ an n900? Nov 18 14:49:54 yes Nov 18 14:49:56 Shapeshifter: I spoke to people reverse engineering Skype Nov 18 14:50:08 Shapeshifter: You do not really want to know what it does. Nov 18 14:50:16 RST38h: >.> Nov 18 14:50:25 sending all my mail to them, or what Nov 18 14:50:34 Shapeshifter: Actually, if you knew, you would probably remove it as a security risk Nov 18 14:50:37 not this, but I've heard some evil stuff. Nov 18 14:50:51 RST38h: well, tell me. Nov 18 14:50:53 ;) Nov 18 14:50:59 killall skype Nov 18 14:51:01 !!! Nov 18 14:51:05 Shapeshifter: Gives Skype a lot of control over your machine, if Skype decides it wants the control Nov 18 14:51:30 RST38h: I noticed that, sometimes when it crashes I can't kill it anymore even though it's not Nov 18 14:51:43 in any case it doesn't obey SIGKILL even though it should Nov 18 14:52:51 that sounds like a kernel driver issue Nov 18 14:53:18 RST38h: shitcraps? Nov 18 14:53:22 Skypes fundamental problem is that it's a binary, with an undocumented protocol that is expected to punch through firewalls. Nov 18 14:53:39 SpeedEvil: punching through firewalls is trivial. Nov 18 14:53:43 and acts as a p2p protocol, which only adds to the injury Nov 18 14:53:44 This means that a trojan exploiting holes in the skype client could gain _wide_ acceptance. Nov 18 14:53:48 * Shapeshifter is reading http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=3&ved=0CBYQFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.secdev.org%2Fconf%2Fskype_BHEU06.handout.pdf&ei=JAoES8XILJqamAORiKF_&usg=AFQjCNFmpVp7BgrwjgH5TDq7rZwp5S78Cw&sig2=Ef54KyEwvEsahndaqdL6Pw Nov 18 14:53:52 mhh. long link. Nov 18 14:54:04 SpeedEvil: According to what I heard, Skype itself IS a trojan Nov 18 14:54:06 hugeurl.com ! Nov 18 14:54:15 SpeedEvil: Just not being actively used by the company Nov 18 14:54:23 ccooke: Sure - but being expected to in the normal course of operations isn't. Nov 18 14:54:54 SpeedEvil: um. it's pretty much essential for a voip client, tbh. Nov 18 14:55:17 if SIP wasn't so crap then Skype would have some competition.... Nov 18 14:55:19 and I'd happily accept it from most IM clients, too Nov 18 14:56:23 ccooke: Having a binary only undocumented client however is not. Nov 18 14:56:38 SpeedEvil: quite. Nov 18 14:57:06 SpeedEvil: it's the only serious difference with skype, anyway - we know the protocol of every other IM/voip system Nov 18 14:57:36 My problem isn't even the undocumented protocol, it's the remote code execution possibilities on bugs. Nov 18 14:57:45 Do I trust skype not to do the trojan thing - maybe. Nov 18 14:58:00 Do I trust them to write 100% bug-free code - well no. Nov 18 14:58:07 SpeedEvil: to be honest, they're no worse than any other client. Nov 18 14:58:55 Sure. Nov 18 14:59:06 SpeedEvil: err Nov 18 14:59:09 RST38h: russian mafia and getting ahead in lucrative business by grabbing documents? ;) Nov 18 14:59:13 every single IM client might have remote execution bugs. There's nothing seriously different about skype's implementation that creates greater risk other than the obscurity of closed source. Nov 18 14:59:24 you realize that Skype's code is audited occasionally, right? Nov 18 14:59:26 ccooke: widespread distribution. Nov 18 14:59:27 do you trust Nokia's code? Nov 18 14:59:37 timeless_mbp: I diddn't actually, no. Nov 18 15:00:01 SpeedEvil: no, not really. AIM, yahoo, etc have similar distribution Nov 18 15:00:26 * timeless_mbp is pretty sure skype's code has been at times Nov 18 15:00:28 Sts: Baltic mafia =) Nov 18 15:00:29 * lbt glances at scratchboxisms and othe hacks in maemo packages Nov 18 15:00:45 Sts: I remember Skype being a .EE-based company or something Nov 18 15:00:54 timeless_mbp: been what? Nov 18 15:00:55 .ee? Nov 18 15:01:03 Estonia Nov 18 15:01:05 RST38h: .se? Nov 18 15:01:17 RST38h: did you catch the new hints about performance from kontto yesterday? heaphone jack? 1000hz filter? Nov 18 15:01:19 paranoidly talking about what closed source code REALLY does? time to call RMS! Nov 18 15:01:30 pupnik: Yea, cute =) Nov 18 15:01:38 pupnik: Not something I can do anything about Nov 18 15:01:51 I think the easiest way of "reverse engineering" the protocol and binary is to go to his house and force it out of him 24 style ;) Nov 18 15:01:55 i dont see an option to disable in /etc/ Nov 18 15:01:56 pupnik: But at least he is saying compositing support is in the latest hildon-desktop in git Nov 18 15:02:08 for sdl? Nov 18 15:02:09 and on the sdk Nov 18 15:02:12 pupnik: i.e. compositing that we can use at app level to created scaled display surfaces for emulators Nov 18 15:02:13 I tried yesterday Nov 18 15:02:32 very good of them to have prioritised that Nov 18 15:02:35 respect Nov 18 15:02:42 Shapeshifter: That method is known as thermorectal cryptoanalysis Nov 18 15:02:45 note though that the only way I know to use it is creating another x11 window Nov 18 15:02:58 javis: Which is wrong Nov 18 15:03:03 And here is konttori =) Nov 18 15:03:05 which is rather ... hard in SDL and probably will require editing the actual librayr. Nov 18 15:03:27 hi konttori Nov 18 15:03:37 this is the sort of thing that one person needs to write once, and the rest of uss cut and paste :) Nov 18 15:03:46 agreed. Nov 18 15:04:11 sup? Nov 18 15:04:31 konttori: tested your code snippet on sdk yesterday, worked well. Nov 18 15:04:34 javis: I guess Xv wuld be the right place to do this Nov 18 15:04:42 javispedro: great to hear that. Nov 18 15:04:51 konttori: even though I couldn't find a way to use it without creating a new X11 window Nov 18 15:04:55 javispedro: did you test with also sdl window? Nov 18 15:04:59 javis: I would prefer /dev/db0 FBIO_SET?SCREENINFO but that would be selfish :) Nov 18 15:05:19 fb0 Nov 18 15:06:53 javis, konttori: gentlemen, can I have that code snippet? =) Nov 18 15:06:57 or a reference to it? Nov 18 15:07:47 konttori: i have to check if sdl is using an extra x11 window for the actual framebuffer, but if it's not, it would not look pretty if I just make the parent window send the actual scale messages Nov 18 15:07:53 RST38h: wait a bit, looking up Nov 18 15:08:50 RST38h: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=365844&postcount=1 Nov 18 15:09:54 RST38h: looks scary ( Cairo _is_ scary ;) ) but the actual scaling stuff is simple Nov 18 15:10:15 javis: Thanks Nov 18 15:10:45 javispedro: actually cairo is pretty nice if you got how it works Nov 18 15:11:26 javis: Actually, it looks ok Nov 18 15:11:44 javis: Looks like a special GTK widget, basically, that lets you scale the contents Nov 18 15:11:50 that's the idea Nov 18 15:11:54 javis: I do not see XWindow there though Nov 18 15:11:59 hildonanimationactor wraps it Nov 18 15:12:08 javis: Ah! But that is ok Nov 18 15:12:20 Gtk wraps all kinds of XWindows, as long as I do not see them I am ok Nov 18 15:12:31 and then uses xatoms as a pseudoipc system to command hildon-desktop Nov 18 15:13:08 javis: I am really ok with that as long as it is hidden Nov 18 15:13:22 javis: The problem I see though is that it cannot be used with /dev/fb0 Nov 18 15:13:46 javis: So, at the end, using this for full screen may be more expensive than CPU based scaling to fb0 Nov 18 15:14:06 might. Nov 18 15:14:17 but of course, some people want to be composited ;) Nov 18 15:14:33 in which case uploading the least amount of information to the powervr and letting it work its way works Nov 18 15:15:02 it will probably work better than GtkImage + CPU scaling Nov 18 15:15:06 Will have to test Nov 18 15:15:58 and of course the vr lets you do nearest filters and all that stuff for free Nov 18 15:17:22 right Nov 18 15:17:34 so no one here is willing to admit to possession of an n900? Nov 18 15:17:52 yes, you got me! Nov 18 15:17:57 I'd admit to it, unfortunately, I don't have one yet ;-) Nov 18 15:17:57 damn me! Nov 18 15:18:08 javis: I do my own nearest filters ;) Nov 18 15:18:09 javispedro: can you follow these steps? Nov 18 15:18:13 1. open task launcher Nov 18 15:18:16 javis: And blizzard did alntialiasing too ;) Nov 18 15:18:16 2. open "More..." Nov 18 15:18:20 3. open File Manager Nov 18 15:18:23 no, I was lying :) Nov 18 15:18:35 * timeless_mbp grumbles Nov 18 15:18:45 someone, anyone,? Nov 18 15:18:52 timeless_mbp: I have one Nov 18 15:18:53 but hey, if you think the same happens on diablo.. Nov 18 15:18:55 ooh, it has a file mgr Nov 18 15:19:07 4. Open "Documents" Nov 18 15:19:13 5. Open "User Guides" Nov 18 15:19:16 hi timeless Nov 18 15:19:19 4, FAIL Nov 18 15:19:20 hi aSIMULAter Nov 18 15:19:31 it says Nov 18 15:19:35 hrm 3.5. Open n900 Nov 18 15:19:46 gotcha Nov 18 15:19:54 hmm Nov 18 15:20:24 * lbt notes that the file mgr calls my device by name despite the dhcp "we're too anal to name the device" bug Nov 18 15:20:44 timeless_mbp: looking at guides Nov 18 15:20:51 6. Open the User_Guide_English_index.html Nov 18 15:20:54 guides just vanished Nov 18 15:21:02 * lbt strokes screen Nov 18 15:21:10 7. scroll down to "Manage time" Nov 18 15:21:11 "Afghan minister allegedly bribed" (C)WashPost Nov 18 15:21:13 * lbt has german guide ... eek Nov 18 15:21:13 8. tap that Nov 18 15:21:14 Is that news? =) Nov 18 15:21:47 RST38h: that it's reported is news Nov 18 15:22:13 9. switch back to file manager Nov 18 15:22:34 10. Open User_Guide_English-US_index.html Nov 18 15:22:36 *nod* Nov 18 15:22:44 11. scroll down to "Manage time" Nov 18 15:22:51 12. tap that Nov 18 15:23:09 -- i believe you should have 3 windows open (file manager, browser[manage time], browser[manage time]) Nov 18 15:23:37 yes Nov 18 15:23:44 -- what's the last line of text on your screen in those browser windows? Nov 18 15:24:42 well, the 1st one has "view the calendar" (but I had to enable the status bar to allow a task switch) Nov 18 15:24:42 -- to the peanut gallery, this depends on the default font size lbt is using (Small, Medium, Large) Nov 18 15:24:44 when browser in full screen? Nov 18 15:24:50 2nd same Nov 18 15:24:59 ok. please compare that line again. Nov 18 15:25:02 add and edit events Nov 18 15:25:10 or that line Nov 18 15:25:32 yep, same on both Nov 18 15:25:33 with and without . Nov 18 15:25:45 fragment: aha! Nov 18 15:25:52 * timeless_mbp waits for lbt to catch up Nov 18 15:26:13 yep, the browser views are the same Nov 18 15:26:29 fragment was saying that the views aren't /quite/ the same Nov 18 15:26:32 if 'small' then "view the calendar" Nov 18 15:26:33 (i believe) Nov 18 15:26:44 if fullscreen then "add and edit events" Nov 18 15:26:51 "View the calendar" vs "View the calendar." Nov 18 15:27:01 thanks crashanddie Nov 18 15:27:10 please test and vote : http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/madbomber/0.2.5-3maemo13/ Nov 18 15:27:19 * VDVsx wants it in Extras :p Nov 18 15:27:25 * lbt notes that "User Guide" is bloody well buried! Nov 18 15:27:32 lbt: good thing too! Nov 18 15:27:36 look at top article on www.theregister.co.uk Nov 18 15:27:37 lbt: Hello? Nov 18 15:27:43 dneary: hi Nov 18 15:27:47 given the errors visible at the first screen of this page :) Nov 18 15:27:55 VDVsx: Tonight, ok? Nov 18 15:27:55 Which user guide? Buried how? Nov 18 15:28:10 RST38h, :) Nov 18 15:28:11 timeless_mbp: I did note the instructions seemed wrong Nov 18 15:28:16 dneary: on-device Nov 18 15:29:09 zaheerm-lp, yup, someone dropped the bomb yesterday, you was there probably :P Nov 18 15:29:25 Btw, what is geotoad? Nov 18 15:29:48 lbt: Ah Nov 18 15:29:49 OK Nov 18 15:29:55 S/was/were/ Nov 18 15:29:55 VDVsx: Someone at Maemo Devices will get punished over this =) Nov 18 15:29:56 Don't care about that. Nov 18 15:30:00 :) Nov 18 15:30:02 http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/uqm/0.6.7-0maemo/ Nov 18 15:30:06 VDVsx, Will you be in Barcelona? Nov 18 15:30:16 dneary, think so:) Nov 18 15:30:21 VDVsx, no i am in barcelona :) Nov 18 15:30:21 Cool! Nov 18 15:30:21 could use some testing there too. It's been in testing for over a week with only one vote Nov 18 15:30:31 Will you be joining in the docs session for part of Saturday? Nov 18 15:30:33 * zaheerm-lp is in barcelona 3 times in 4 weeks :) Nov 18 15:30:53 timeless_mbp: done? Nov 18 15:31:04 dneary, dunno, depends on the UX activities Nov 18 15:31:26 'kay Nov 18 15:31:37 I'll try to drag you in for a while (in the morning maybe) Nov 18 15:31:53 dneary: did you ever get syncevolution working? Nov 18 15:32:00 over usb? Nov 18 15:32:03 lbt: In a limited way Nov 18 15:32:08 Syncs often fail Nov 18 15:32:13 Over IP Nov 18 15:32:13 to a linux desktop? Nov 18 15:32:14 zaheerm-lp, great, we're counting on you for the best bars/night places ,hihihi Nov 18 15:32:19 anything!!! Nov 18 15:32:24 To Google Calendar and gmail Nov 18 15:32:27 VDVsx, i don't drink :P Nov 18 15:32:32 gah! Nov 18 15:32:41 :) Nov 18 15:32:46 VDVsx, but foodwise i have a few recommendations Nov 18 15:32:47 * lbt wanted an open solution ;) Nov 18 15:32:52 zaheerm-lp, that's not a valid excuse ;) Nov 18 15:33:03 I'm kidding ;) Nov 18 15:34:40 lbt, easy, we ask google to free the code for calendar and gmail and their deps :) Nov 18 15:35:36 zaheerm-lp: should be easier than getting an open contact sync out of Nokia .... mutter Nov 18 15:36:01 lbt, lol Nov 18 15:36:07 * lbt goes to research curses to aim at Nokia Nov 18 15:36:21 who told them to do syncml just over bt/usb Nov 18 15:36:24 muppets Nov 18 15:36:36 :) Nov 18 15:37:50 who does syncml over bt/usb? Nov 18 15:38:33 * ccooke finds the video of somoene using a palm pre to cut cheese Nov 18 15:38:50 lbt: what did they do this time? Nov 18 15:39:09 N900 Nov 18 15:39:16 ccooke: 1up it by building a cheese-slicer? into the n910! Nov 18 15:39:21 syncml won't talk to linux Nov 18 15:39:25 zash: no thanks Nov 18 15:39:31 lbt: ah. It never did, really Nov 18 15:39:34 I can sync my linux phone to exchange... Nov 18 15:39:45 lbt: I thought the n900 only does exchange. Nov 18 15:39:46 No, it's just the N900 Nov 18 15:39:53 syncml has never had a reliable, working implementation on linux Nov 18 15:40:06 most wince phones (syncml) will sync to linux desktops... Nov 18 15:40:18 hi Nov 18 15:40:26 ccooke: flakey and crap would be an improvement on nowt Nov 18 15:40:31 I've tried with four phones and another two or three devices.. Nov 18 15:40:33 lbt: ah. Nov 18 15:40:41 lbt: hmm. Proxy time :-) Nov 18 15:40:52 lbt: most wince phone can delete your contact with syncml on linux desktop Nov 18 15:41:14 * lbt wonders if the contacts 'backup' may be a place to start... Nov 18 15:41:14 but i ll not call this a sync Nov 18 15:42:02 Khertan as it stands I can't get *anything* from the device to the desktop Nov 18 15:42:31 lbt ? really ? Nov 18 15:42:46 *nod* Nov 18 15:42:50 any suggestions? Nov 18 15:43:08 gnokii - nope via usb or AT Nov 18 15:43:30 syncml via syncevolution 0.9 ... recognise, no connect Nov 18 15:43:36 obex - similar Nov 18 15:43:47 not tried bluetooth yet Nov 18 15:44:34 hell, it won't talk to my old 3110 - which would talk to gnokii Nov 18 15:45:36 lbt: odd. Nov 18 15:46:21 lbt gnoki on your desktop linux Nov 18 15:46:25 it s works Nov 18 15:46:43 it's pretty crap but yes Nov 18 15:46:47 :) Nov 18 15:46:50 I got an ldif out of my 3110 Nov 18 15:47:01 which was all I needed Nov 18 15:47:19 i ve sync my 6500s directly by bluetooth with the n900 Nov 18 15:47:24 Hum. Nov 18 15:47:37 *nod* my 3110 is probably too old/simple Nov 18 15:47:39 Stskeeps: it seems that Nokia licensed Funambol c++ sdk and decided to re-license it as non-free in Maemo5 Nov 18 15:47:39 Promoting VGBA 3.6.7-1 to testing Nov 18 15:47:44 Perhaps our own version of syncml would be better than trusting the Nokia one. Nov 18 15:47:48 but i understand that it s works only if the 6500s have a sim card :) Nov 18 15:47:51 Whoever wants it in Extras, TEST AND VOTE Nov 18 15:47:56 it's a reasonably standard protocol, after all. Nov 18 15:49:00 ccooke: Funambol is syncml, server and a few clietns Nov 18 15:49:01 wjt: thanks :) Nov 18 15:49:52 Hi can some one tell me what has python-gpsbt been replaced by in maemo5 for gps Nov 18 15:50:09 amit_usual: there is no replacement for it yet :( Nov 18 15:50:16 javispedro: RST38h: Ideally you guys should be able to just set the XAtoms and have thus any window scaled (no need to be gtk) Nov 18 15:50:24 amit_usual: the GPS API has changed by the liblocation one, and there are no bindings for it yet Nov 18 15:50:44 any planned soon Nov 18 15:50:45 ? Nov 18 15:51:00 konttori: but afaik (from reading hildonanimationactor docs) scaled windows need a parent window Nov 18 15:51:33 konttori: Are you sure XAtoms is the right way to do it? Nov 18 15:51:54 * RST38h admits he has never used XAtoms for anything Nov 18 15:52:33 reed: well that's the conditions of dual license projects.. Nov 18 15:54:11 Stskeeps: sure; no question about that ... I'm simply wondering why Nokia did not release its modifications: old proprietary habits or something else? Nov 18 15:54:27 reed: there's the factor you forget about.. time Nov 18 15:54:51 Stskeeps: time goes into the 'something else' category ... perfectly reasonable Nov 18 15:55:06 reed: it takes time to pass things through legal check so Nov 18 15:59:30 http://www.nokia.com/A4136001?newsid=1355897 Nov 18 16:00:12 yay, now where's my shipping notice Nov 18 16:08:24 amit_usual: I am not aware of any short term plans yet, but there is an open bug on it : https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5748 , also see https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5748#c1 , maybe it might work for you Nov 18 16:08:28 Bug 5748: Add bindings to liblocation Nov 18 16:08:29 Bug 5748: Add bindings to liblocation Nov 18 16:09:53 oh, the new firmware plays nice with my router, no need to disable power saving anymore :D Nov 18 16:10:15 yeah, the corresponding bug report was marked as fixed :) Nov 18 16:10:15 VDVsx, what was it doing before with your router? Nov 18 16:10:45 that is censored. Nov 18 16:10:57 zaheerm, with power saving enabled, the connection was always dropping Nov 18 16:11:02 VDVsx, also....have you noticed resolv.conf not updating with the new firmware on connection to wifi? Nov 18 16:11:25 zaheerm, nop Nov 18 16:11:29 i want to know what the rules for when it updates resolv.conf are Nov 18 16:11:43 zaheerm: It's not meant to update; dnsmasq is running a reason Nov 18 16:11:45 "There's a rounding-error bug in the camera driver's autofocus routine (which uses a timestamp) that causes autofocus to behave poorly on a 24.5-day cycle. That is, it'll work for 24.5 days, then have poor performance for 24.5 days, then work again." Nov 18 16:11:47 mine i am having to edit whenever i move Nov 18 16:11:52 +for Nov 18 16:11:55 Don't you just LOVE Android? =) Nov 18 16:11:56 qwerty12, so how can i debug that? Nov 18 16:12:12 RST38h, lol Nov 18 16:12:29 RST38h, great bug :P Nov 18 16:12:31 zaheerm: No idea, "nameserver 127.0.0.1" has always worked for me Nov 18 16:12:58 qwerty12, aah so resolv.conf doesn't change ever? Nov 18 16:13:03 Nope :) Nov 18 16:13:09 explains it! Nov 18 16:13:10 RST38h, almost at the same level as the Zune 'dates' bug Nov 18 16:13:23 so the first time i changed it, it must have been that the dns server was borked Nov 18 16:15:29 anyone know how to enable macro mode on the N900 using gst_photography_*() calls? Nov 18 16:19:01 VDVsx: Well, it is like the famous moon phase bug of yore Nov 18 16:19:34 RST38h, dunno that one o_0, but seems neat :P Nov 18 16:20:15 lardman, http://maemo.gitorious.org/maemo-multimedia/gst-plugins-bad/blobs/maemo5/gst-libs/gst/interfaces/photography.h Nov 18 16:20:20 lardman, that's the api Nov 18 16:20:40 lardman, GST_PHOTOGRAPHY_SCENE_MODE_CLOSEUP for macro mode Nov 18 16:21:12 ah, that's the one Nov 18 16:21:13 thanks Nov 18 16:21:58 * lardman wonders what's wrong with the standard "macro" term...? ;) Nov 18 16:22:06 RST38h: that's 2^31 msec =) Nov 18 16:22:11 no worries, i've never used or had any influence with the api :) Nov 18 16:22:18 :) Nov 18 16:23:52 moon phase bug! interesting :) Nov 18 16:24:17 RST38h: there was a infamous "click to focus stops working after 49 days" in wmaker that took years to find =) Nov 18 16:25:05 suihkulokki: And openoffice won't print on tuesdays. Nov 18 16:25:26 better than mondays Nov 18 16:25:48 * lbt plugs printer into N900 to test.... oh, wait... Nov 18 16:26:36 wat Nov 18 16:27:02 what's this "MPD" everyone refers to on the forums? Nov 18 16:27:07 it's not mpd, that's for use... Nov 18 16:27:16 Mobile Phones Direct Nov 18 16:27:20 s/use/sure/ Nov 18 16:27:20 Shapeshifter meant: it's not mpd, that's for sure... Nov 18 16:27:22 * Pavlov_ wonders where in the US is actually shipping n900s Nov 18 16:27:30 ah Nov 18 16:27:58 Pavlov_: according to the press release it looked like it would start in "flagship" stores in certain major cities Nov 18 16:27:59 http://www.nokiaretail.co.uk/Brands/Nokia/Nseries-Multimedia-Phones/sb489/p26078.htm#tabsAnchor Nov 18 16:28:09 mobilephonesdirect.co.uk redirects htere now Nov 18 16:28:29 ah Nov 18 16:28:34 could be NY and Chicago Nov 18 16:29:21 ill see if i can convince someone in NY to go check it out Nov 18 16:30:03 I don't really see why everyone's so on edge because the phone is a bit late Nov 18 16:30:28 indeed.. and it's not even that late from what was told Nov 18 16:30:40 * CoreFusion- going to make something to eat... Nov 18 16:30:40 Shapeshifter: because it might all turn out to have been a cruel lie and there really *is* no n900. The summit was a lie - we were all hypnotised. Nov 18 16:30:51 right Nov 18 16:31:00 Hi all, anyone knows if pngenc in gstreamer is available for diablo? I can't find it in any package Nov 18 16:31:15 All the pre-releases were faked by marketing people. It's *actually* a psychology experiment. Nov 18 16:31:37 ccooke: and I'm hypnotically listening to music on mine Nov 18 16:32:20 lardman: no, you're a plant. Nov 18 16:32:35 so are half the people here. It's all a Conspiracy, see Nov 18 16:33:03 and Nokia is actually called hypnokia Nov 18 16:33:03 lardman, out of curiosity what app you making that uses the photography api? Nov 18 16:33:19 barcode scanner Nov 18 16:33:45 I needed autofocus and for the N900 I really need macro mode too Nov 18 16:34:16 lardman, aah ok do you know that ensonic (Stefan Kost) has been working on barcode gst elements etc. Nov 18 16:34:18 I almost pushed it to extras-devel at lunch time, but it failed to build, which is good as the dialogs are still locking it up Nov 18 16:34:28 yes, I saw his gst element Nov 18 16:34:51 only issue atm is that I have to use both zbar (which he uses) and also libsmtx Nov 18 16:34:55 libdmtx even Nov 18 16:34:58 lardman, i talked to him at GSoC mentor summit where we were the Gst mentors present Nov 18 16:35:11 lardman, libdmtx is for different barcodes? Nov 18 16:35:19 cool, I met him last year in Berlin Nov 18 16:35:30 lardman, is the gst element pngenc available on the n900 ? Nov 18 16:35:34 yeah, zbar does 1D and Qr (thanks derf ;)) and libdmtx does datamatrix Nov 18 16:35:47 fabrice: no idea, sorry Nov 18 16:35:52 fabrice, yes Nov 18 16:36:15 zaheerm-lp, just asking because on my N810/Diablo I can't find it Nov 18 16:36:37 fabrice, you probably need to package up a gst-plugins-good-png with just the png elements Nov 18 16:37:15 zaheerm-lp, you mean it's not part of a standard package in a repo ? Nov 18 16:37:32 fabrice, i guess, it is in maemo5 Nov 18 16:37:46 ok thanks Nov 18 16:49:35 I like this forum post: Nov 18 16:49:40 So now the N900 has been "shipped", has "landed" and is "available". What are the next steps between "available" and "in my freaking hands"? Nov 18 16:49:59 heh :) Nov 18 16:50:47 Shapeshifter: ???, obviously Nov 18 16:51:00 Shapeshifter, you pay the shop some money :P Nov 18 16:51:28 aah lol didn't see the "i like this forum post:" part Nov 18 16:52:06 does anyone know if libicd-network-dummy exists for fremantle? Nov 18 16:52:44 the package does. Nov 18 16:52:55 nokia-binaries Nov 18 16:58:22 damn, norwegian sound good Nov 18 16:58:55 I only understand about every 20th word, but it sounds brilliant Nov 18 17:00:49 qwerty12, thx! i figured out that the place where i first noticed the problem seems not to provide valid dns servers to the n900 on dhcp Nov 18 17:00:52 javispedro, RST38h your emus are in the nokia N900 extravaganza videos :P Nov 18 17:01:15 has anyone got a retail version on the n900 yet? Nov 18 17:01:51 Anwarboy11, i'm guessing many will tomorrow Nov 18 17:02:03 zaheerm-lp: :) Nov 18 17:02:05 Anwarboy11, it is for sale in nokia flagship store, london tomorrow Nov 18 17:02:08 any nes from Mobilephones direct? Nov 18 17:02:18 VDVsx: ta! Nov 18 17:02:19 VDVsx: you are referring to Maemo summit Travel page, not the barcelona one Nov 18 17:02:20 news* Nov 18 17:02:28 zaheerm-lp: they retracted that though Nov 18 17:02:35 Stskeeps, ups Nov 18 17:02:43 i orderd from mpd, havnt even recieved an email to confirm dispatch Nov 18 17:03:39 Anwarboy11, your only option is to speak to them directly Nov 18 17:04:00 Stskeeps, thanks Nov 18 17:04:16 ive tried phoning , never ever get a line through Nov 18 17:04:49 "They should include PS3,Xbox360 & Nintendo Wii emulators!!!" @youtube comment Nov 18 17:05:16 Has anybody got bluetooth pan working? Nov 18 17:05:18 VDVsx: It's YouTube, go figure... Nov 18 17:05:19 VDVsx, you have edited wiki wrong, Tuesday is not 3/12 :) Nov 18 17:05:37 * VDVsx thinks that 90% of the people that comments on youtube is a bit retard Nov 18 17:05:40 VDVsx, Thursday is :) Nov 18 17:05:55 zaheerm-lp, grrr Nov 18 17:05:57 * qwerty12 still maintains that the world's retards adopt the comment section on YouTube as a second home Nov 18 17:06:03 qwerty12++ Nov 18 17:06:30 first home is the long threads on t.m.o about shipping? :) Nov 18 17:06:52 Ooh, good point Nov 18 17:07:03 zaheerm-lp, fixed, thanks :) Nov 18 17:11:33 VDVsx: Is BlueMaemo ready for N900? Nov 18 17:11:59 sounds dodgy every time ;) Nov 18 17:12:16 CoreFusion-, nop, the new UI is now finished yet :( Nov 18 17:12:26 lardman: Maemo, not "Movie" ;) Nov 18 17:12:36 ah! Nov 18 17:12:39 CoreFusion-, but I'll send a working version to -devel today or tomorrow Nov 18 17:13:31 can anyone with a N900 tell me if the this works : gst-launch v4l2src num-buffers=1 ! video/x-raw-rgb,width=640,height=480,framerate=8/1 ! ffmpegcolorspace ! videoscale ! video/x-raw-yuv, width=320, height=240 ! jpegenc ! filesink location=test.jpg Nov 18 17:14:33 fabrice, v4l2camsrc is preferred to v4l2src Nov 18 17:14:45 VDVsx: Sounds good, I can help testing it out once I get my N900 Nov 18 17:15:03 zaheerm, ok. Does it capture a frame as expected ? Nov 18 17:15:23 fabrice, not sure will test later... Nov 18 17:15:37 CoreFusion-, Thanks, actually I some testers with MAC OS or PS3 :) Nov 18 17:15:41 zaheerm, thanks. Nov 18 17:15:56 looking at pipeline, why are you requesting 640x480 from the camera and not allowing any res? Nov 18 17:16:07 or why not ask for 320x240 ? Nov 18 17:16:22 qwerty12, also bear in mind http://xkcd.com/481/ Nov 18 17:16:47 zaheerm, just because this is waht works on my N810 and I'm a gstreamer rookie ;) Nov 18 17:17:01 8,1 won't work Nov 18 17:17:10 CutMeOwnThroat: Hehe Nov 18 17:17:10 8/1 even Nov 18 17:17:10 :P Nov 18 17:17:31 qwerty12, the really funny thing seems to be this: http://blag.xkcd.com/2008/10/08/youtube-audio-preview/ Nov 18 17:18:16 VDVsx: Unfortunately I use windoes systems: Win7 / XP (I did think for a brief moment if I dare to put that here :P) Nov 18 17:18:18 CutMeOwnThroat: I'm looking at http://www.chrisfinke.com/addons/youtube-comment-snob/ - sounds perfect! Nov 18 17:20:08 CoreFusion-, should work fine with Win :) Nov 18 17:21:17 qwerty12, lol, good luck with that Nov 18 17:21:24 CutMeOwnThroat, qwerty12 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ciG-Xs7mBwU Nov 18 17:21:35 qwerty12, that's missing the use of "u" "r" "ur" etc. ... and anyway - if it's filtering away all comments, you could just as well not have looked at them... Nov 18 17:22:34 CutMeOwnThroat: That's the plan :) Nov 18 17:22:53 lcuk, that's very annoying in some site (eg. endgaget) Nov 18 17:23:06 s/site/sites/ Nov 18 17:23:06 VDVsx meant: lcuk, that's very annoying in some sites (eg. endgaget) Nov 18 17:23:44 lcuk: Heh, I don't mind "First!", TBH. Although, I do see its pointlessness... Nov 18 17:25:25 lcuk, but... that's a totally different phenomenon Nov 18 17:25:48 but I do see it'd get old pretty soon if people read things and reacted to each other, wrote insightful comments... Nov 18 17:29:12 so "thank god that doesn't happen because we have youtube"? Nov 18 17:30:12 actually considering how forums turn people into morons, you really get a good chuckle out of enders game Nov 18 17:30:21 but that was already in another xkcd Nov 18 17:32:39 I've never understood why xkcd is popular, to be honest. Nov 18 17:33:14 you has faile dthen Nov 18 17:33:21 xkcd ♥ Nov 18 17:33:29 Joanna ♥ Nov 18 17:33:46 Who? Nov 18 17:36:50 GiantTalkingCow: http://xkcd.com/322 Nov 18 17:38:28 The thing is that no one's acted like that on IRC for at least 10 years. WoW, maybe. Nov 18 17:39:26 weird that - I used to get that almost once a month, now that I've quit almost all my irc channels, less Nov 18 17:39:45 Really? Which network? Nov 18 17:39:47 * SpeedEvil ponders an ironic comment. Nov 18 17:40:04 Let's hear it. Nov 18 17:40:20 Naah. It'd be udderly tasteless. Nov 18 17:40:41 moo Nov 18 17:40:44 :-D Nov 18 17:41:31 Baaaa. Nov 18 17:53:58 morning Nov 18 17:54:05 morn Nov 18 17:55:01 argh.. it is week since Nokia locked cash on my card and still no shipment... Nov 18 17:56:04 where do you live? Nov 18 17:56:10 Poland Nov 18 17:56:17 DDP? Nov 18 17:56:46 hi hrw Nov 18 17:56:52 they're not shipping DDP units yet. just grabbing the money it seems.. Nov 18 17:57:07 javispedro: ddp Nov 18 17:57:31 Windows 7 installation on ASUS notebook causes big red ERROR! sign. Fail. Nov 18 17:58:02 tell me more Nov 18 17:58:11 yeah, not news :) Nov 18 18:01:17 win7... none of my laptops is good enough for it. no disk space Nov 18 18:01:36 It's not worthwhile. Actually, Windows hasn't been for years now. Nov 18 18:02:01 Win7 is actually quite good Nov 18 18:02:17 it's what vista was supposed to be Nov 18 18:02:52 It has a horrible UI designed by monkeys and not enough new features to justify it for desktop use. Nov 18 18:03:03 CoreFusion-: I have xp home on one lap and xp pro on other Nov 18 18:03:19 CoreFusion-: xph one has just 40GB disc... Nov 18 18:03:19 hmm, just consumed a whole packet of Pringles, lucky the wife's not here yet to tell me off Nov 18 18:05:25 yay! sorted my dialog problems :) Nov 18 18:05:52 ...by eating Pringles? Nov 18 18:06:00 it helped :) Nov 18 18:06:05 nah, had to go async Nov 18 18:06:34 async pringles? Nov 18 18:06:44 eating while typing Nov 18 18:06:50 Once you pop, you can stop for variable periods? Nov 18 18:07:10 no, unfortunately the period length is capped at about 5s Nov 18 18:07:55 so for 90 pringles, you have less than 10min Nov 18 18:08:46 * SpeedEvil is eating diet food. Nov 18 18:08:57 green things? Nov 18 18:08:59 Roast pork, cabbage, potatos, gravy and applesauce. Nov 18 18:09:03 mmmmmm Nov 18 18:09:26 asynchronously too from the looks of it, or do you have a wipe clean kb? Nov 18 18:09:29 With a mini pork pie to start. Nov 18 18:09:31 lol Nov 18 18:09:48 (I however have lost ~5Kg last month. Nov 18 18:09:58 And the portion is about half of what I'd usually have. Nov 18 18:10:44 A barcode aware diet app would be so cool Nov 18 18:10:50 yeah, I'm thinking about cutting back and filling the gap with alcohol Nov 18 18:11:09 You know, it's funny... with all sorts of ridiculously fatty foods being popular in the US, the non-dessert pie has never caught on here. Nov 18 18:11:24 lardman, setup a positive pressure keyboard to keep the crumbs and stuff out Nov 18 18:11:43 you might have to wear gloves to code tho cos it will be cold. Nov 18 18:11:52 :) Nov 18 18:11:58 at least you can play air hockey with your pen when you are bored Nov 18 18:12:06 lcuk: md5sum /dev/zero - problem solved Nov 18 18:12:06 hmm, good to see Garage is as quick as ever ;) Nov 18 18:13:44 is the autobuilder broken? Nov 18 18:14:27 lardman: No, it just knew you were about to upload to it Nov 18 18:14:51 I'm getting lots of pkg-config errors Nov 18 18:14:57 or rather I got earlier today Nov 18 18:15:13 I'll try again and see if the pringles have helped Nov 18 18:16:18 lardman: Hint: Build-Depends is there to be updated... Nov 18 18:16:30 hmm Nov 18 18:16:36 sounds like nasty debianisation stuff Nov 18 18:17:13 oh, I need to add those things in there, balls Nov 18 18:19:32 but really, hildon-1, I can't need a Build-Depends on that can I? Nov 18 18:19:55 * microlith cheers as all of the holds nokia posted against his account have fallen off Nov 18 18:20:01 libhildon1-dev Nov 18 18:20:04 ^ lardman Nov 18 18:20:36 this is the problem with guis, too many annoying deps! Nov 18 18:20:38 ;) Nov 18 18:23:59 lardman: GUIs, or Debian. Nov 18 18:24:03 Take your pick :) Nov 18 18:24:12 Reminds me of a joke Nov 18 18:24:19 dneary: well debian is bad, but if guis can be avoided that is good ;) Nov 18 18:24:20 How do you confuse a Kerryman? Nov 18 18:24:26 I don't know Nov 18 18:24:36 Show him three shovels, and tell him to take his pick Nov 18 18:24:40 lol Nov 18 18:24:55 dneary: how're things? Nov 18 18:25:14 Well, obviously, sense of humour is OK :) Nov 18 18:25:22 Busy enough Nov 18 18:25:33 Getting ready for Barcelona Nov 18 18:25:43 I'd love to come but have work stuff on Nov 18 18:25:48 You should submit mbarcode for suggestions Nov 18 18:25:53 yeah Nov 18 18:25:56 we'll send you a report :) Nov 18 18:26:02 should try to get it into extras-devel first though :p Nov 18 18:26:05 lol Nov 18 18:26:06 ok Nov 18 18:28:32 Anyone used a BT keyboard with an n900 yet? Nov 18 18:28:40 (and had it work) Nov 18 18:30:43 ccooke: there was some report of someone doing that, yes Nov 18 18:31:09 http://www.radiosforoldcars.com/vibratorsadvantages.htm Nov 18 18:31:10 oops Nov 18 18:31:43 viq: all I've been able to find is someone who got it to work... for letters. No numbers, no task switching... Nov 18 18:31:45 thank god it was not something NSFW. Nov 18 18:32:11 javispedro: vompletely worksafe Nov 18 18:33:24 javispedro: diagonals ;) Nov 18 18:33:36 work work work Nov 18 18:33:52 also maybe i make a screenshot of one kbd layout Nov 18 18:34:06 showing how it could be used Nov 18 18:34:25 javispedro: do right handed people prefer dpad on left or right? Nov 18 18:34:32 ccooke: well, you didn't specify value of $work ;) Nov 18 18:34:43 right, right? Nov 18 18:35:04 i don't have a specific preference. actually, I'm more used to it being on the left. Nov 18 18:35:38 my left thumb has a callous that wilÃl take years to fade Nov 18 18:37:07 anyway, controls with arrows is nice for some things, impossible for ithers Nov 18 18:40:20 hrm...i got my n900 for my personal use but it has a finnish kb layout Nov 18 18:40:32 anyone know if the german physical keyboard is the same as the dutch english Nov 18 18:40:50 i just can't live without the up and left arrow keys... Nov 18 18:40:53 and i could do without the åöä Nov 18 18:41:19 aSIMULAter: you can just use a different layout Nov 18 18:41:38 well i know this but i don't like it Nov 18 18:41:44 I'll have the same problem. Nov 18 18:42:04 afaik only the keyboards where the language doesn't feature any special characters will have the 4-way arrows Nov 18 18:42:15 french, italian, german, all these have only two arrows Nov 18 18:42:22 damn Nov 18 18:42:25 so german too Nov 18 18:42:25 waa Nov 18 18:42:45 there might be aftermarket keyboards... Nov 18 18:43:59 aSIMULAter: Learn Finnish and then you will stop thinking those keys are useless Nov 18 18:44:17 aSIMULAter: only english-dutch have 4 arrows Nov 18 18:44:30 aSIMULAter: i know a bunch of people who want finnish keylayouts Nov 18 18:44:34 find one and trade w/ them :) Nov 18 18:44:44 haluatko että puhuu suomea kaikkille? Nov 18 18:45:17 i can always get öåä via the on screen special character dialog Nov 18 18:45:18 why dutch? Nov 18 18:45:19 Hehe Nov 18 18:45:29 dutch doesn't feature any special characters? Nov 18 18:45:40 iirc polish has 4 arrows too. Nov 18 18:45:50 omg javispedro orig snes dpad is on left -- ookay Nov 18 18:45:53 mh, odd, as polish also has special characters Nov 18 18:46:01 Å‚ for example Nov 18 18:46:10 timeless: who wants to trade? and WHY :P Nov 18 18:46:11 or was that the only one.. Nov 18 18:46:30 aSIMULAter: well, i think most of them don't have devices at all :) Nov 18 18:46:41 oh those ppl :P Nov 18 18:46:49 you can still swap pre-orders :P Nov 18 18:46:51 i'm just bummed, this is my very own n900 u know Nov 18 18:46:52 my speechial one Nov 18 18:47:06 i like the kb layout of all my other devices Nov 18 18:47:22 mine has been on loan for a while now Nov 18 18:47:22 * qwerty12_N810 throws aSIMULAter a screwdriver Nov 18 18:48:01 can that be done? swap kbs? Nov 18 18:48:45 ok well, my husband will take my finnish kb layout and he'll buy a device from teh UK Nov 18 18:48:47 so yay Nov 18 18:48:48 how is that maemo-version package supposed to work? Nov 18 18:49:44 anyone have an opinion on the best vnc server for windows? Nov 18 18:49:51 some-fremantle-only-package | maemo-version<=4.0 Nov 18 18:50:01 hardaker2: tightvnc or ultravnc Nov 18 18:50:09 SS: thanks. Nov 18 18:50:20 tightvnc had the first google hit ;-) Nov 18 18:50:26 but I prefer real opinions Nov 18 18:52:39 * RST38h moos thoughtfully Nov 18 18:52:46 Hello, aSIMULAter Nov 18 18:52:53 hi RST38h! :D Nov 18 18:54:29 wb rst Nov 18 18:54:38 heya javis Nov 18 18:55:36 RST38h are u going to ux meets code in barcelona? Nov 18 18:55:52 aSIMULAter: yes Nov 18 18:56:55 aSIMULAter: not really: I am out of vacation days this year + not exactly flush with money Nov 18 18:57:24 timeless u're going? Nov 18 18:57:30 RST38h: :/ Nov 18 18:57:45 lol.... youtube comments are the best Nov 18 18:57:52 RST38h, saw your emus in Nokia's video ? Nov 18 18:58:03 VDVsx: No, have they got there already? Nov 18 18:58:06 Hm Nov 18 18:58:10 RST38h, 1 sec Nov 18 18:58:15 really, some people must be really frustrated with their lives for them to write so much hateful stuff Nov 18 18:58:32 what like 4chan trolls? :P Nov 18 18:58:38 Shapeshifter: Two words: NO SEX. Nov 18 18:58:51 well, 4chan really is like a zoo of trolls Nov 18 18:59:22 BTW, I promised to test Mad Bomber, right? Installing Nov 18 19:00:09 RST38h, http://ow.ly/162Bl7 Nov 18 19:01:34 Extras-devel being a shitpile for anyone else? Nov 18 19:01:43 VDVsx: Hm, that looks like MG and iNES Nov 18 19:01:56 qwerty: Worksforme Nov 18 19:02:13 there's a clear shot from speccy too Nov 18 19:02:18 yea Nov 18 19:02:22 RST38h, but they have 'all' in the desktop Nov 18 19:02:28 But it is clear that the guy does not know how to use it Nov 18 19:02:35 :) Nov 18 19:02:49 * RST38h has to do docs page similar to EmuSymbian/ Nov 18 19:04:15 VDVsx: Mad Bomber works fine, although level numbers look somehow weird Nov 18 19:04:32 RST38h: Oh, sorry, I was too vague there: Is updating it working for you? Nov 18 19:04:49 <_|Nix|_> Hey! What's up with this: "Failed to fetch http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/dists/fremantle/Release No Hash entry in Release file /var/lib/apt/lists/repository.maemo.org_extras-devel_dists_fremantle_Release" Nov 18 19:05:03 _|Nix|_ answered my question :) Nov 18 19:05:15 ah, that one Nov 18 19:05:15 _|Nix|_: extras-devel has been dying a lot lately Nov 18 19:05:19 <_|Nix|_> qwerty12_N810: Can you answer mine? Nov 18 19:05:26 <_|Nix|_> It breaks HAM ... Nov 18 19:05:29 my understanding is that they're waiting for new hardware to save them Nov 18 19:05:36 <_|Nix|_> I can't see my installed packages ... Nov 18 19:06:07 you can't see installed pacakges? Nov 18 19:06:08 _|Nix|_: Extras-devel has a race condition when importing new packages which causes it to mess up. The result? Well, you've already seen it Nov 18 19:06:14 s/pacak/packa/ Nov 18 19:06:15 timeless_mbp meant: you can't see installed packages? Nov 18 19:06:21 So it sometimes works, and sometimes does not :) Nov 18 19:06:25 <_|Nix|_> qwerty12_N810: Gah ... Nov 18 19:06:31 and it fails often enough :) Nov 18 19:06:53 <_|Nix|_> Alright ... I guess I have my answer :/ Nov 18 19:07:45 New servers are really needed. Much of maemo.org is already going to shit Nov 18 19:08:26 once the n900 is out, I'm betting the "press" like engadget or so, will bash on maemo.org for being too slow Nov 18 19:08:48 oh, come on. give the 770 a bit of resting Nov 18 19:08:50 Shapeshifter: i thought the n900 was out Nov 18 19:08:55 Shapeshifter: small fish, compared to lack of capacitive touch screen, MMS, etc Nov 18 19:09:05 no portrait... Nov 18 19:09:24 meh, but it's something for people to nag about Nov 18 19:09:29 for _everyone_ to nag about. Nov 18 19:09:43 Correct Nov 18 19:09:43 unlike MMS, which is wanted by a fraction of users. Nov 18 19:10:08 I am so happy MMS is NOT included Nov 18 19:10:12 now my sister cant spam my phone with MMS texts Nov 18 19:10:17 If you want to maximize the activity in your blog, you should claim stuff that looks intelligent AND corresponds to what 99% of your readers think Nov 18 19:10:56 Then you get resonance with your readers and more hits =) Nov 18 19:11:51 So, MMS and no-capacitive, and other stuff is perfect for that Nov 18 19:12:32 Xisdibik, hehe Nov 18 19:13:16 Shapeshifter, for the people who purchased n900's its probably a small fraction, but for the number of phone users in general, id say its not such a small fraction that want MMS, especially for the US market, where most people still send picture texts instead of email. (why i dont know) Nov 18 19:13:37 mhhh Nov 18 19:13:41 I don't know many who send picture texts Nov 18 19:13:53 ...not many who email either though Nov 18 19:13:57 dmj726, my sister sends enough to count for like half of the US population :/ Nov 18 19:14:14 she sends roughly 10,000 MMS's a month Nov 18 19:14:16 Xisdibik: I bet most just want it to say "My phone can send MMSes!" Nov 18 19:14:17 (not all to me) Nov 18 19:14:21 Actually I don't even text Nov 18 19:14:26 10k wow Nov 18 19:14:39 THat's ridiculous Nov 18 19:14:41 yea 10k, if im lucky i send like 200-300 in a month Nov 18 19:14:52 your telco's ceo comes to visit your sister regularly? Nov 18 19:15:02 and thank her, watch her health.... Nov 18 19:15:22 javispedro, he does not, sprint doesnt care about its customers Nov 18 19:15:25 how many of those mms are multiple sent to the same person by her cat or dog by accident stepping on the send button Nov 18 19:15:32 A web browser and a dataplan would change my habits though Nov 18 19:15:37 javispedro, and hes making the same amount on her than anyone else, she she pays for unlimited texting Nov 18 19:15:39 Xisdibik: uhm, she sends an MMS every 4 minutes of her life? Nov 18 19:15:46 lol Nov 18 19:15:54 4.32 to be precise? Nov 18 19:16:01 aSIMULAter, none, but she does send the same MMS to multiple people Nov 18 19:16:10 ah Nov 18 19:16:23 how much is her bill? Nov 18 19:16:25 I would actually get kinda pissed at someone who sent me multiple mms messages a day Nov 18 19:16:35 RST38h, like less than 100 a month Nov 18 19:16:35 do people still talk to her? Nov 18 19:16:44 RST38h, my mom does :P Nov 18 19:16:48 heh Nov 18 19:17:42 * javispedro can't believe FN is actually trying to teach people to use sbox! Nov 18 19:17:54 and autotools! OMG! Nov 18 19:17:56 not people, commercial symbian developers Nov 18 19:18:18 to which sbox is actually considered sane Nov 18 19:18:18 :P Nov 18 19:18:35 well, I remember scanning the forums there Nov 18 19:19:02 seen lots and lots of Indian guys who programmed j2me all their (short?) lives until the client asked them to do something for S60 Nov 18 19:19:18 so they go to FN and they are just...mm...lost. Nov 18 19:19:42 RST38h: Seen -developers lately? Nov 18 19:19:58 qwerty: What? Same crap? Nov 18 19:20:09 qwerty: Our friend sarower found -developers? Nov 18 19:20:32 RST38h: Not sarower, but just look at some of the questions being asked... Nov 18 19:20:36 -developers' was invaded already? Nov 18 19:20:38 :( Nov 18 19:20:52 qwerty: Actually I have seen the same in Android forums when it was just released Nov 18 19:21:15 qwerty: Quiet Indians/Chinese politely asking how they are supposed to code a video decoder Nov 18 19:21:56 qwerty: At some point, Google started moderating all such messages away because they all wanted native code option Nov 18 19:22:12 Heh, figures.. Nov 18 19:22:13 oh, the thing's not even released and the glib version it uses is already outdated :) Nov 18 19:22:26 that tells more about glib... Nov 18 19:22:26 maemo glib has always been outdated Nov 18 19:22:31 they're catching up nicely though Nov 18 19:22:34 is there some way of running fennec or the "maemo browser" or whatever you call it in scratchbox? Nov 18 19:23:06 yes. even though why would you want it? Nov 18 19:23:49 Shapeshifter: The browser shipped with the N900 can be installed with "fakeroot apt-get install maemo-apps maemo-binaries" (after adding the nokia-binaries repo, of course) Nov 18 19:24:01 Unless you really do mean Fennec Nov 18 19:24:33 javispedro: I'm thinking of trying out twaeltis google maps adaptation and see what I could hack along. Could do it without scratchbox and everything, but it would be nice to try it in the maemo browser. Nov 18 19:24:41 qwerty12_N810: thanks. Nov 18 19:24:58 My shitty experiences with Fennec on the N800 and N810 have scarred me for life so I daren't try it on the N900 Nov 18 19:25:00 * Stskeeps watches yet another cross-compiler compilation go past Nov 18 19:25:24 * lcuk aims at the compilation whizzing past and pulls the trigger Nov 18 19:25:24 qwerty12_N810: but isn't the maemo browser very similar to fennec? Nov 18 19:25:45 hmm, my n810 is not wanting to boot Nov 18 19:25:45 E: Couldn't find package maemo-apps Nov 18 19:25:53 * javispedro watches the compilation die and stskeeps lose hair Nov 18 19:25:56 nokia-apps Nov 18 19:25:58 and nokia-binaries Nov 18 19:26:05 * lardman heads for a power supply again Nov 18 19:26:07 Shapeshifter: I would say "no", but I'm not in any position to compare Nov 18 19:26:10 Er, yeah Nov 18 19:26:24 ah Nov 18 19:27:01 lardman: you didn't flash zimage did you? :P Nov 18 19:27:17 that would be very evil and immoral Nov 18 19:27:48 Stskeeps: nah, just looks like the battery is too flat, not got round to looking at that yet Nov 18 19:28:25 GeneralAntilles, you've your documents this time ? :P Nov 18 19:28:31 VDVsx, hell yeah! Nov 18 19:28:38 :) Nov 18 19:29:58 I still needs to talk zerojay into coming, but if not I'll probably want to room with you. Nov 18 19:30:24 Jaffa's passed many of the cabal's secrets on to you, but I've still got a few I never passed to him. *eg* Nov 18 19:31:12 RevdKathy's coming too Nov 18 19:31:13 hehhe Nov 18 19:31:23 mhh, I didn't even know it was possible to install the nokia apps in scratchbox Nov 18 19:31:35 neat. Got a look at the calendar, already liking it. Nov 18 19:31:35 dneary, btw, did you approach ossinpena (or something like that) Nov 18 19:31:36 yay! using a proper charger it's booted, ~lart crappy phone chargers Nov 18 19:31:51 VDVsx, Yeah, ossipena and smarsh Nov 18 19:31:51 * lardman goes back to cooking Nov 18 19:31:55 Both unabailable Nov 18 19:32:01 dneary, :) Nov 18 19:32:08 Gone! Wish Ireland good luck Nov 18 19:32:13 I call the N810 resell syndrome. So you buy the N900 thinking to someday sell the N810, and it suddenly just fails. Nov 18 19:32:28 dneary, good luck Nov 18 19:32:36 dneary, now wish the same for me :P Nov 18 19:32:54 VDVsx: Bad luck Nov 18 19:33:08 Average luck ;) Nov 18 19:33:18 javispedro: its jealousy Nov 18 19:33:29 our coach is a asshole, but I think we'll pass :P Nov 18 19:35:02 google's going to use connman in google chrome os Nov 18 19:35:27 (and clutter...) Nov 18 19:35:36 javispedro, because of the name, I bet :P Nov 18 19:35:54 Google Chrome OS sounds like a joke, even Nov 18 19:36:17 it'll be their pet linux distro, using a bit more of the usual gnu userspace. Nov 18 19:36:51 hopefully they provide nice arm port of the chrome browser so we get it also runnin on the n900 :) Nov 18 19:38:25 I'm not really excited about chrome Nov 18 19:38:30 petteri, only if they trade us by making a nice desktop version of Modest, available for Windows aswell as Linux, and ill throw in OSX as a requirement to appease the apple fanatics ;D Nov 18 19:38:55 petteri: pfft, Chrome is nothing special Nov 18 19:39:05 ...Chrome OS seems kinda pointless when you have Ubuntu Nov 18 19:39:15 lol Nov 18 19:39:27 The Chrome browser is nice even though I don't use it. Nov 18 19:39:32 Jesus, I hate using Modest on the N900; I'll be fucked if I ever use it on a desktop Nov 18 19:39:38 It makes the Firefox devs try harder Nov 18 19:39:42 Chrome is fail Nov 18 19:39:45 Firefox is fail too :) Nov 18 19:40:03 and you use what now? Nov 18 19:40:07 Konqueror Nov 18 19:40:18 ah...is there a maemo port of that? Nov 18 19:40:37 doubt it. Nov 18 19:40:40 part of KDE Nov 18 19:41:15 luke-jr, are you using a KDE distro of linux then? Nov 18 19:41:43 Xisdibik: I'm using my own OS built on the Gentoo meta-distro Nov 18 19:42:04 luke-jr, running KDE? :P Nov 18 19:42:12 yes Nov 18 19:42:14 4.3 Nov 18 19:42:28 though on my N810, I use Arora instead of Konqueror Nov 18 19:42:43 does your N810 have KDE installed on it? Nov 18 19:42:50 chrome is designed to be the OS, can kill and restart tabs instead of apps, see tab ram/cpu usage instead of apps, etc Nov 18 19:42:51 yes, my N810 runs Gentoo with KDE 4.3 Nov 18 19:42:52 aSIMULAter: i've got a coworker with an official english layout Nov 18 19:43:02 who will gladly swap with you for your finnish layout Nov 18 19:43:09 ooh... "Ordnance Survey maps to go free online" http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2009/nov/17/ordnance-survey-maps-online Nov 18 19:43:26 lbt: that may not - quite - mean what you might at first think. Nov 18 19:43:31 luke-jr, wow you have it running on your N810, impressive, what do you use for your standard desktop or laptop or netbook (depending on what u got) Nov 18 19:43:35 just reading... :) Nov 18 19:43:44 lbt: +"some" Nov 18 19:43:59 lbt: There are all sorts of possible get-outs. For example 'free' raster maps, that you can't cache, or derive data from. Nov 18 19:44:05 lbt: Are you in the UK? Nov 18 19:44:08 Xisdibik: same. Nov 18 19:44:11 yes Nov 18 19:44:27 lbt: Consulatation come december - remember to participate. Nov 18 19:45:07 "down to a scale of 1:10,000" Nov 18 19:45:30 * lbt wonders what the scale of the curve of a circle is... Nov 18 19:45:40 lbt: OS _really_ doesn't want to do this - the government is pressing them - it goes 180 degrees against their previous position. Nov 18 19:45:48 3.1415926535897932384626433832795028841971399375 Nov 18 19:45:49 maybe enforced jaggies in the render ;) Nov 18 19:45:57 lbt: 1cm=100m Nov 18 19:46:16 it's either free or it's too annoying to bother with Nov 18 19:46:41 mavhc: Ideally, it's free enough to import en-mass into openstreetmap. Nov 18 19:46:45 And then tidy it up and add stuff. Nov 18 19:46:46 SpeedEvil: 'twas a philosophical question.... the scale of vector data is meaningless Nov 18 19:46:52 lbt: ah Nov 18 19:47:43 I came up with about 6 ways they could do it that would make that impossible, while sticking to the letter of the announcement. Nov 18 19:47:51 I've followed it lightly for years... Nov 18 19:47:55 don't let them know Nov 18 19:48:02 I fully expect it to fail dismally Nov 18 19:48:08 lbt: also - 1:10000 may or may not be an invention of that report Nov 18 19:48:19 so long as OSM find a way to rip it Nov 18 19:48:41 lbt: well - lacking that - we're currently scanning 1958 maps Nov 18 19:48:47 Which actually are quite good. Nov 18 19:49:20 lbt: the scale is meaningless, but the accuracy is not Nov 18 19:49:20 SpeedEvil: well, mobile GPS crowd are beginning to get it... rally us in December Nov 18 19:50:25 luke-jr: *nod* only sensible interpretation ... "the artefacts normally represented on a 1:10,000 scale render" Nov 18 19:52:25 The more subtle effects of this are that it frees up _lots_ of other data. Nov 18 19:52:41 For example - I recently requested from my local council map data on their public toilets. Nov 18 19:53:09 They responded that this information is partially derived from OS data - so that I can't use it without an OS license. Nov 18 19:53:27 Same with data on rights of ways, and house plans. Nov 18 19:55:31 what do other countries do? do they have government map makers? Nov 18 19:56:05 It depends Nov 18 19:56:16 The US for example - pretty much gives the raw data out free. Nov 18 19:56:30 they do? Nov 18 19:56:50 They vary from this extreme - to the UKs extreme, which is that everyone needs to pay for maps, even governmental bodies. Nov 18 19:57:04 Actually - china would be the extreme - non-governmental map making is illegal. Nov 18 19:57:15 luke-jr: yes. Nov 18 19:57:35 luke-jr: http://tiger.census.gov/ Nov 18 19:58:31 well, tiger is kinda junk Nov 18 19:58:35 its a good start Nov 18 19:58:51 but dont go trying to navigate turn by turn with it Nov 18 19:59:49 pwnguin: I fixed up much of the southern part of Colorado Springs. Nov 18 19:59:54 pwnguin: (for OSM) Nov 18 20:00:00 Some of the errors are _wierd_ Nov 18 20:00:03 did we talk in #osm? Nov 18 20:00:08 Possibly. Nov 18 20:00:43 * cosmo hates autobuilder Nov 18 20:00:48 i vaguely recall showing someone from col springs a tiger modifications layout Nov 18 20:00:54 i think i'll just make my own repository.. Nov 18 20:01:26 anyways, i wonder if its possible to automate the annotation of OSM with gps traces Nov 18 20:01:34 TIGER data has wackiness like being topologically correct in terms of roads - roads don't cross - but so inaccurately surveyed that transforming from the TIGER map to match ariel imagery is more akin to doing a jigsaw, than actual simple rectification. Nov 18 20:01:54 pwnguin: It's a hard problem. Nov 18 20:01:55 my dad did some census work a few months ago Nov 18 20:02:12 SpeedEvil: i suspect its hard but solvable, and that google did it via ridefinder Nov 18 20:02:49 pwnguin: Perhaps. Nov 18 20:03:37 you know Nov 18 20:03:40 Samsung is sponsoring Enlightenment Nov 18 20:03:45 the n900 has wifi and gps built in Nov 18 20:03:53 wardriving app Nov 18 20:03:55 ? Nov 18 20:03:56 * RST38h wonders why Nov 18 20:03:58 does it actually work? :p Nov 18 20:04:02 Enlightenment! Nov 18 20:04:13 pwnguin: I use my N810 primarily for wardriving on the rare occasion the GPS works Nov 18 20:04:18 RST38h: i think samsung's making a mobile linux platform of their own Nov 18 20:04:18 pwnguin: And camera. It makes an interesting OSM platform - it'd only be more idreal if it had a compass in it. Nov 18 20:04:27 pwnguin: Well - a compass, and a laser rangefinder. Nov 18 20:04:43 and a gigantic ball Nov 18 20:04:50 mirrored Nov 18 20:05:03 what's the range finder for? Nov 18 20:05:05 pwguin: I am just not sure Enlightenment is what they are going to use there Nov 18 20:05:14 Sounds more like something for their netbooks Nov 18 20:05:37 RST38h: perhaps they figure its a market differentiator Nov 18 20:05:41 nobody else touches e Nov 18 20:05:47 pwnguin: Point the laser at something, get the exact range, the compass tells you where it is WRT the GPS. Nov 18 20:05:57 RST38h: raster works there Nov 18 20:06:00 pwnguin: Means you can stand in one spot, and map the surrounding kilometer or so. Nov 18 20:06:18 pwnguin: Without walking to each feature, or using ariel imagery. Nov 18 20:08:28 SpeedEvil: you have a flash Nov 18 20:08:30 you could fake it Nov 18 20:10:03 anyways, i need to reorder via dell Nov 18 20:10:08 if they take my coupon Nov 18 20:10:15 hi Nov 18 20:10:25 dell still doing the n900? Nov 18 20:10:29 thought it got taken down Nov 18 20:11:23 Sts: raster works for samsung?!? Nov 18 20:11:48 pwnguin: Not easily, unless the flash can be PWMd a lot faster than I suspect. Nov 18 20:12:36 pwnguin: Plus, you'd need to integrate over a lot of frames, and I suspect the clocks are not good enough to be jitter-free over the required periods. Nov 18 20:14:13 RST38h: afaik Nov 18 20:14:21 RST38h: feel free to ask him, hangs out in #mer at times :P Nov 18 20:14:30 Sts: Weird =) Nov 18 20:14:41 * RST38h wonders what would Raster do for Samsung Nov 18 20:14:51 limo related stuff i think Nov 18 20:14:58 and not driving limos Nov 18 20:14:59 :P Nov 18 20:15:16 rasterizing vectors for the samsung marketing dept. Nov 18 20:15:25 heh Nov 18 20:16:55 !@#$%#@ Nov 18 20:17:10 your n900 blew up in your face, penguinbait? Nov 18 20:17:32 join #mer Nov 18 20:17:35 whoops Nov 18 20:17:42 It's a trap Nov 18 20:19:16 / is the worst part to mistype in an irc command Nov 18 20:19:31 yup Nov 18 20:22:56 Flandry new user testing uqm - tons of feedback Nov 18 20:23:01 great stuff Nov 18 20:23:17 /join #uqmfeed Nov 18 20:25:26 * GeneralAntilles wonders if anybody has picked an N900 up from a flagship store. Nov 18 20:25:45 they un-released them in the uk at least, GeneralAntilles :) Nov 18 20:26:06 woot: eh? Nov 18 20:26:16 anyone near chicago, il? Nov 18 20:26:35 me Nov 18 20:26:43 timeless: assuming that was me (zero zero, not oh oh), they announced they were going to be selling them today on twitter/facebook, then changed their minds today, and removed both announcements Nov 18 20:26:48 plan to check the flagship store this weekend or so Nov 18 20:27:02 (not that I can buy it right now, but yeah) Nov 18 20:27:05 fernando: cool Nov 18 20:27:24 did you lot notice the konami code on facebook? I just realised that they could pull off some quite clever statistical research with this kind of thing. They would be dumb if they didn't! You could easily track who enters the code where, and see how such information distributes over facebook, and how fast! It's ingenious. Nov 18 20:27:30 I'd love to look at the data. Nov 18 20:27:39 lol Nov 18 20:27:46 woot, :( Nov 18 20:28:27 i can see the difference fwiw, but typing from an n900 doesn't mean that i want to express it Nov 18 20:28:42 We really need to bind a tab. Nov 18 20:29:11 re Nov 18 20:29:16 ^I Nov 18 20:29:20 down with hardware keyboards! Nov 18 20:29:24 Works great in irssi. Nov 18 20:29:36 does the ukeyboard team irc? Nov 18 20:32:17 timeless: i'm in chicago, but i'm waiting to get one from amazon for $510 instead of $650 Nov 18 20:33:25 timeless: ah, you're forgiven then ;) Nov 18 20:33:27 heck, $650 is already dirt cheap compared to 650€ here Nov 18 20:33:57 $510 is still really expensive to the wife Nov 18 20:34:35 here in the UK, people are getting it for 30% off retail price Nov 18 20:34:39 retail price here is £500 Nov 18 20:34:45 wireless: ahp, she'll just have to take it out of your hide Nov 18 20:34:55 * microlith wonders if amazon orders will be filled before nokiaUSA preorders Nov 18 20:35:35 wirelessdreamer: sell your wii, makes it $300 ;-) Nov 18 20:36:08 speaking of uk Nov 18 20:36:28 i'm planning to be stranded there on 12/31 Nov 18 20:36:32 hello guys Nov 18 20:36:37 anyone have suggestions? Nov 18 20:36:45 yeah, dont be Nov 18 20:36:49 timeless: burough markets for lunch Nov 18 20:37:07 toggles_w, o_O Nov 18 20:37:08 i wanted to ask about this new update for n900 which was released reasently Nov 18 20:37:11 lcuk: aww g, thanks Nov 18 20:37:18 lcuk: http://www.boroughmarket.org.uk/ Nov 18 20:37:19 do you know what exactly did they update ? Nov 18 20:37:20 lol which part of uk you in Nov 18 20:37:23 timeless: Don't speak in that foreign language that you call English Nov 18 20:37:48 But I like Engrish Nov 18 20:37:58 lcuk: 8md expect to use a train to move to whichever place people recommend Nov 18 20:38:11 Milo: It's worse: He speaks American "English" Nov 18 20:38:12 hrm, Fn-fail Nov 18 20:38:23 Venomrush: ~50% Nov 18 20:38:26 ah, I see where the problem might have occured. Nov 18 20:38:29 ahhh Nov 18 20:38:44 guys ? Nov 18 20:38:46 problem with new year is it depends on your own taste Nov 18 20:38:47 anpr: so Nov 18 20:38:52 and whether the weather works Nov 18 20:39:02 you're comparing the summit prerelease with sales, right? Nov 18 20:39:07 timeless: new year is big in Edinburgh, fireworks, street parties, pubs open very late, etc. Nov 18 20:39:10 kinda pointless Nov 18 20:39:11 also scotland is cool Nov 18 20:39:14 weather not great :) Nov 18 20:39:20 timeless i just wondered that did they update Nov 18 20:39:34 anpr: i'd expect virtually everything Nov 18 20:39:44 Venomrush: aha, you're here :) Nov 18 20:39:47 perhaps not the kernel Nov 18 20:39:49 hmm Nov 18 20:39:57 Oh, Generalantilles, I've got an FBReader that works with the volume keys, if you want it. I needed a CHM viewer. Nov 18 20:40:04 so it could mean that they could be almost ready to stock n900 ? Nov 18 20:40:09 although that's supposed to be in one of these releases Nov 18 20:40:12 hrmh, the telepathy-extras* and account-extras* packages need more userfriendly names Nov 18 20:40:28 anpr: the image we offered is the official sales imagbe Nov 18 20:40:49 s/gbe/ge/ Nov 18 20:40:49 timeless meant: anpr: the image we offered is the official sales image Nov 18 20:40:49 timeless: central london at new year is just too much for me, I found. everywhere is totally totally rammed full, streets and streets of people, mounted police, strange one-way crowd control, can't get anywhere to see fireworks along the river unless you go there from like 12pm onwards Nov 18 20:40:51 suihkulokki: suggestions gratefully accepted :) Nov 18 20:40:52 which image do mean ? Nov 18 20:41:00 do you mean* ? Nov 18 20:41:02 qwerty12_N900, !!! Nov 18 20:41:10 42-11 i think Nov 18 20:41:11 qwerty12_N900, that'd make my week. Nov 18 20:41:11 Anpr: the new upgrade, is the one which is being shopped... they started going out on sale last tuesday Nov 18 20:41:14 qwerty12_N900: cool. Can you unfullscreen it? Using Conny's toggle button would be cool Nov 18 20:41:19 s/shop/ship/ Nov 18 20:41:19 Robot101 meant: Anpr: the new upgrade, is the one which is being shipped... they started going out on sale last tuesday Nov 18 20:41:28 actually, that probably has cgroups, which means even the kernel changes Nov 18 20:41:33 Robot101 which country do you have in mind ? Nov 18 20:42:15 i am just confused.. Nov 18 20:42:18 robot: poke me w/ the deb names when i get home Nov 18 20:42:28 i've so many different topics and reports in internet.. Nov 18 20:42:33 Jaffa: I have no intentions on "Fremantleizing" it (not for me to do), but I do require, at least, working volume keys within the app :) Nov 18 20:42:39 timeless: cgroups policy leaves a little to be desired... :( Nov 18 20:42:40 anpr: we(Nokia) officially started selling last week or whatever Nov 18 20:42:58 robot: cgroups is better than no cgroups Nov 18 20:43:13 my image is presummit and i can miss calls Nov 18 20:43:23 .query anpr Nov 18 20:43:27 timeless: yes, but it was half-baked to push into the sales image IMO Nov 18 20:43:32 Jaffa, I bound F to fullscreen and R to rotate. Nov 18 20:43:46 it was required Nov 18 20:43:48 Robot101, Telepathy Haze. The the short description should tell you what services it provides. Nov 18 20:43:51 GeneralAntilles: ah, cool Nov 18 20:44:14 qwerty12_N900: well, the author's not showing much intention AFAICT Nov 18 20:44:34 Can somebody @Nokia go hit Misha? Nov 18 20:44:34 timeless: yes, but it could've been done differently/better Nov 18 20:44:58 Jaffa: Quim should go smack him. He's a Nokia employee, and FBReader is on the Stars program Nov 18 20:45:06 GeneralAntilles: Any thoughts on "Maemo Weekly News" (aka "someone else read tmo so I don't have to") Nov 18 20:45:14 Oh, he's a Nokian? Nov 18 20:45:24 Jaffa, love it, that's approximately where I tried to go with the Highlights. Nov 18 20:45:29 But it's too much work for one person. Nov 18 20:45:35 GeneralAntilles: agreed Nov 18 20:45:36 MishaS, yeah. Nov 18 20:46:21 GeneralAntilles: I disagree with VDVsx that anyone should be able to contribute directly, although suggesting stuff makes sense Nov 18 20:46:25 Generalantilles: http://qwerty12.qole.org/fbreader_0.10.7-1_armel.deb Nov 18 20:47:28 qwerty12_N900, this of course means I may not have to kill myself. Nov 18 20:47:40 Glad to hear it =) Nov 18 20:48:18 Hey folks :) I've a question wrt deblet. After compiling 2.6.30 with proper framebuffer console support and hardcoded (i assume there's no way to patch the bootloader's cmdline so i had to patch the kernel to ignore that ATAG) compiled-in cmdline i'm still unable to get Debian working :( The X doesn't start, hell with it, it can be fixed but the device turns itself off after ~65 seconds. I assume that's RETU watchdog but how should it be properly handle Nov 18 20:48:24 ... I tried apt-get install watchdog and ensured i have RETU_WD compiled in but the result is the same. Any suggestions? :) Nov 18 20:48:33 Jaffa, I don't meant to say directly, my idea was also suggest stuff, but in a very easy way Nov 18 20:48:54 PaulFertser: deblet... is that still alive? Nov 18 20:49:00 PaulFertser: deblet died over a year ago Nov 18 20:49:01 :P Nov 18 20:49:10 PaulFertser: i am interested in how much is working with 2.6.30 though Nov 18 20:49:12 Stskeeps: i want to run debian natively. Nov 18 20:49:28 PaulFertser: do you care about strictly Debian Nov 18 20:49:30 Stskeeps: and i can't tell you the answer since the device just powers itself off :( Nov 18 20:49:39 lbt: not really, i care to not run maemo. Nov 18 20:49:39 or is pretty much raw ubuntu OK ? Nov 18 20:49:48 you need Mer :) Nov 18 20:49:49 PaulFertser: use a flasher and enable rd mode, disable watchdogs Nov 18 20:49:50 PaulFertser: there are multiple watchdogs on the n8x0 Nov 18 20:49:50 VDVsx: ah cool. If collection is mostly done by multiple peeps posting on a single Twitter account, suggestions could be an @... to it Nov 18 20:49:52 GeneralAntilles, are you sure ? is that the guy helping Quim ? Nov 18 20:50:07 Stskeeps: disabled wd's except for retu. Nov 18 20:50:10 suihkulokki: indeed. Nov 18 20:50:16 VDVsx, am I sure about what? Nov 18 20:50:19 suihkulokki: but i got no schematics and no description :( Nov 18 20:50:29 PaulFertser: well disable retu rd too :P Nov 18 20:50:33 GeneralAntilles, mishas Nov 18 20:50:44 er, wd Nov 18 20:50:52 PaulFertser: have you tried asking linux-omap mailing list? Nov 18 20:50:52 * Jaffa 'll take the idea to blog, -community and tmo tomorrow Nov 18 20:50:54 Stskeeps: tried that, turns off even faster. Nov 18 20:50:56 VDVsx, there's always the chance he may have moved on, but he was with Nokia last time I checked. Nov 18 20:51:04 suihkulokki: nope, but i tried googling extensively :) Nov 18 20:51:42 GeneralAntilles, if I recall correctly he's from the same company as andre__ Nov 18 20:51:47 BTW, i'm really disappointed with Nokia, too many obstacles for everything... :( Nov 18 20:51:57 PaulFertser: try asking, there are people on there omap kernel list who at least have run the n800 with mainlinish kernels Nov 18 20:52:02 For "everything"? Nov 18 20:52:14 Any news about N900 host-mode? Is it really never ever anyhow working? Or just an external power needed or what? Nov 18 20:52:37 PaulFertser: are you booting straight to SD? Nov 18 20:52:39 or through initfs Nov 18 20:53:01 suihkulokki: i'm not running mainline, i'm running omap kernel from their repo, just like described in the popular blog post. Nov 18 20:53:18 Stskeeps: straight to SD. debugging initfs scripts is too much trouble without proper console :( Nov 18 20:53:43 GeneralAntilles, I'm right: https://launchpad.net/~michael-hasselmann Nov 18 20:54:01 GeneralAntilles, so maybe andre__ can help you on that :P Nov 18 20:54:05 so, people who were privmsg'ing me Nov 18 20:54:09 please switch to here. Nov 18 20:54:18 a few notes... Nov 18 20:54:24 Nokia is a business. Microsoft is a business. Nov 18 20:54:38 VDVsx, er, wrong person. Nov 18 20:54:38 VDVsx: mikhas != MishaS Nov 18 20:54:39 Nokia gave out device loans to roughly 300 people who it invited to Maemo Summit Nov 18 20:54:39 http://maemo.org/profile/view/mishas/ Nov 18 20:54:58 Microsoft gave out free lightweight laptop to i don't know how many people Nov 18 20:55:02 who came to the PDC this week (?) Nov 18 20:55:14 now those people paid to attend, but i'm sure the laptop is worth it Nov 18 20:55:20 GeneralAntilles, ah, sorry, I asked you if is the guy helping Quim :P Nov 18 20:55:35 VDVsx, I missed the context. Nov 18 20:55:39 timeless_mbp: happen to know how to do something at usb hotplug in osol? need to cat a file to /dev/printers/0 at it showing up Nov 18 20:55:50 timeless_mbp: probably you know any definitive info about N900 usb host mode? Can you please share? Nov 18 20:55:55 GeneralAntilles, ah that's the FBreader dev righ ? Nov 18 20:56:01 Stskeeps: sorry, nope Nov 18 20:56:14 PaulFertser: i work on software, specifically the web browser Nov 18 20:56:39 anyway microsoft is greedy Nov 18 20:56:39 timeless_mbp: ah, ok. I thought that's just so much important that everybody who can knows about that. Sorry for bothering. Nov 18 20:56:48 why would a business give away laptops? Nov 18 20:56:57 because it was giving them away to developers who will write cool software Nov 18 20:57:06 I assume that maemo updates itself? (Maybe even with apt?) Nov 18 20:57:07 and that software will run on microsoft's platform and it will drive sales Nov 18 20:57:19 CShadowRun: maemo tells you when updates are available Nov 18 20:57:22 you choose to update or not Nov 18 20:57:22 Nice Nov 18 20:57:32 you can micromanage to some extent Nov 18 20:57:34 Shiney, is it apt? :D Nov 18 20:57:35 just as you can with windows Nov 18 20:57:38 suihkulokki: so do you know anything particular about the retu watchdog? Does it reboot or power off the device? Are there any other watchdogs that do power off? Nov 18 20:57:43 it's apt w/ slightly different rules Nov 18 20:57:49 anyway... Nokia is also greedy Nov 18 20:57:52 slightly different rules? Nov 18 20:58:08 we give away loaner devices to people who we hope will develop software for *our* platform Nov 18 20:58:15 and thus drive sales for *our* platform Nov 18 20:58:23 guys i know it will be a silly question, but i'm just a simple user, i don't know anything about programming and etc.. i just wanted to ask how the things is going with n900 and what's your opinion of it. I just found that n900 could be a great device for communications like skype and etc Nov 18 20:58:29 business do things because there's a business case for doing it. Nov 18 20:58:41 Anpr: skype integration is awesome Nov 18 20:58:46 but a word of warning: Nov 18 20:58:52 roaming in foreign countries can be expensive Nov 18 20:58:54 Anpr: imho communications withi skype can't be great. I think nokia is doing the wrong thing offering skype support :( Nov 18 20:58:59 and VoIP will *not* save you Nov 18 20:59:07 * timeless_mbp got an incredibly high phone bill recently Nov 18 20:59:14 PaulFertser: I think the all reboot.. if you are experiencing poweroff it might be due to overheating (if you have no power managment at all) Nov 18 20:59:20 Anpr although i don't own one, it looks like it does all that stuff out of the box, and i know WINE is porting to the ARM architecture, so before long, you may be able to run Skype 4 for Windows on the N900 if you wanted, which would be fun Nov 18 20:59:33 CShadowRun: um Nov 18 20:59:42 wine is wine-arm Nov 18 20:59:51 they already did it? Nov 18 20:59:56 suihkulokki: overheating of what? And can it be felt by holding the device in hands? I did and i felt nothing bad. Nov 18 20:59:58 i doubt skype4-arm-wince is something you can find lying around Nov 18 21:00:13 hmm timeless i am from United Kingdom and i think it's possible to get free mobile internet for 5quid per month Nov 18 21:00:18 timeless, nah you'd run the windows version under wine Nov 18 21:00:27 i've done it on ubuntu, it nearly works :P Nov 18 21:00:28 CShadowRun: um... Nov 18 21:00:30 * timeless_mbp ponders Nov 18 21:00:37 so if you call from you n900 to another skype is it free ? Nov 18 21:00:37 is there a faq for this? Nov 18 21:00:41 i think i've explained it before Nov 18 21:00:55 Anpr: plus data carrier costs Nov 18 21:00:55 PaulFertser: not neccesarily felt on hand Nov 18 21:00:57 Anpr: only if you have an existing contract - 5/mp Nov 18 21:00:58 mo Nov 18 21:01:09 skype is skype Nov 18 21:01:16 the plans don't change because the hardware changes Nov 18 21:01:30 skype to 1800/0800 is also free Nov 18 21:01:43 suihkulokki: so what part can be overheated at all and how does it manage to calm instantly (since i'm able to boot it again without a delay)? Nov 18 21:02:00 * timeless_mbp ponders Nov 18 21:02:09 haha lots of pondering Nov 18 21:02:24 CShadowRun: are you familiar w/ russian or turkish? Nov 18 21:02:28 no Nov 18 21:02:34 * PaulFertser ponders whenever he hears about the fucking proprietary spying shitty skype and official support for that :( Nov 18 21:02:40 just english :( Nov 18 21:02:45 ebcdic? Nov 18 21:02:51 * CShadowRun hates skype too Nov 18 21:02:58 oh, ok, how about miles and yards? Nov 18 21:03:00 timeless_mbp: Would being able to say "bitch" in Russian count? Nov 18 21:03:01 I try and keep to SIP when possible :D Nov 18 21:03:07 timeless_mbp: i know russian fyi Nov 18 21:03:08 qwerty12_N900: not even close Nov 18 21:03:25 PaulFertser: this is for an explanation, if the target doesn't understand the space, i can't use it Nov 18 21:03:31 timeless_mbp you never said why you can't run skype 4 under wine on the N900 :P Nov 18 21:03:40 CShadowRun: do you know about miles and yards? Nov 18 21:03:43 yup Nov 18 21:03:54 PaulFertser: no idea, I just remember someone complaining of such issues Nov 18 21:04:01 ok, so... you probably have some yard sticks lying around Nov 18 21:04:07 timeless_mbp: do you need any translation or what? ;) Nov 18 21:04:11 CShadowRun: wine+qemu Nov 18 21:04:15 PaulFertser: no. listen. Nov 18 21:04:27 in the country where i currently live, we have these strange sticks that can measure to roughly a foot Nov 18 21:04:33 random uneducated guess: perhaps it just thinks it's overheating Nov 18 21:04:34 but sadly there are no markings for inches Nov 18 21:04:54 CShadowRun: your stick *probably* can measure inches and centimeters/millimeters Nov 18 21:05:07 but you could probably also get a stick which can only measure inches/feet/yards Nov 18 21:05:08 timeless_mbp yea in uk we usually use cm/mm Nov 18 21:05:13 oh brother. Nov 18 21:05:19 why are you asking? :S Nov 18 21:05:21 well, you can imagine that such a stick could exist, right? Nov 18 21:05:25 * qwerty12_N900 's stick can measure lots of inches Nov 18 21:05:26 of course Nov 18 21:05:28 * qwerty12_N900 hides Nov 18 21:05:35 lol Nov 18 21:05:36 imagine someone gives you instructions for building a house Nov 18 21:05:50 and they give you the instructions in inches Nov 18 21:06:12 in addition to giving you the instructions in inches Nov 18 21:06:40 the instructions include things like "use the prefabricated tile" Nov 18 21:07:04 wine is a way to solve the problem of the prefabricated tile Nov 18 21:07:18 but it won't solve the problem that your instructions were in inches instead of cm Nov 18 21:07:30 but it will stop you caring ;) Nov 18 21:07:34 I just went and read it on the mailing list, wine doesn't do processor emulation Nov 18 21:07:39 So you need to get qemu involved Nov 18 21:07:42 is that what your trying to tell me? :P Nov 18 21:07:45 yes. Nov 18 21:07:49 hehe Nov 18 21:08:06 ok so qemu+dsl+wine = skype 4 on n900 Nov 18 21:08:08 :D Nov 18 21:08:19 * lardman sees lots of curly errors Nov 18 21:08:20 * RST38h sighs Nov 18 21:08:28 * RST38h sighs a lot lately Nov 18 21:08:29 CShadowRun: you planning to run out of memory? Nov 18 21:08:39 timeless_mbp the N900 has less than 16mb of memory? Nov 18 21:08:45 note that if you use qemu you could use wine-w32 instead of wine-arm Nov 18 21:08:52 timeless_mbp: was that all your long explanation just to tell us x86 is not arm??? Nov 18 21:08:55 The Skype codecs are also quite heavy. Nov 18 21:08:59 hehe Nov 18 21:09:04 and in fact, i'd almost *expect* you to use wine-w32 instead of wine-arm Nov 18 21:09:14 yea, wine-arm won't do it Nov 18 21:09:23 so the existence of wine-arm doesn't help you an iota Nov 18 21:09:35 PaulFertser: just CShadowRun Nov 18 21:09:43 for you i'd have used something else Nov 18 21:09:56 i'd have to go find the language variant which uses Latin instead of Cyrillic Nov 18 21:10:17 timeless_mbp i was just saying it would be possible, i didn't say it would be practical :P Nov 18 21:10:29 timeless_mbp: it's obvious wine can't help run x86 binary on arm without any explanations... Nov 18 21:10:42 PaulFertser: CShadowRun didn't seem to get it Nov 18 21:10:50 i do get it? Nov 18 21:10:55 you do _now_ Nov 18 21:10:58 hehe Nov 18 21:11:03 but when i kept saying , you didn't seem to Nov 18 21:12:22 Come on, can anyone please tell me where can i find anybody who understands n810 on low-level enough to help me diagnose "powering off" problem? Nov 18 21:13:00 I wouldn't bother with Deblet, personally. Nov 18 21:13:03 Mer is a much better option. Nov 18 21:13:33 GeneralAntilles: does it run with new kernel? Nov 18 21:15:09 ah, the wonders of being able to ssh into a device over wifi Nov 18 21:16:01 The new kernel matters just because i need to use an external cardreader to read CF (a necessity since it's the format used by a professional tacheometer) and .21 just doesn't cut it. Nov 18 21:21:04 hellwolf-n810: hey, could you please tell me what kernel version do you use? Nov 18 21:22:40 GeneralAntilles: and btw, can Mer just use Debian repositories for all non-system-specific stuff? Nov 18 21:23:22 it uses ubuntu stuff yeah Nov 18 21:23:22 :P Nov 18 21:24:10 Stskeeps: what makes anyone choose ubuntu over debian? I thought that ubuntu is mostly an inferior debian fork aimed to adding useless stuff and removing some useful. Nov 18 21:24:23 * GeneralAntilles groans Nov 18 21:24:36 PaulFertser: in this particular case? armv5 vs armv4, and upstart support in debian when we started was horrible Nov 18 21:24:50 (yes, it wasn't a matter of it looking shiny) Nov 18 21:25:41 Stskeeps: sounds somewhat reasonable, i agree. But the distro policy makes me feel sick... Nov 18 21:26:29 * lcuk passes paul a bucket Nov 18 21:26:49 hey there ciroip \o Nov 18 21:29:35 buonasera signor lcuk Nov 18 21:31:04 * Klowner pokes amazon with a pointy stick Nov 18 21:32:26 Stskeeps: so, could you please tell me the status of mer compatibility with recent kernels? Nov 18 21:32:39 Klowner: Your pointy stick got delivered? Nov 18 21:34:01 PaulFertser: frankly i'm not sure - i guess on n8x0 we've been lucky that we had DSME for the watchdogs to do the dirty work for us. luke-jr might have some ideas Nov 18 21:34:15 ciroip: italian? Nov 18 21:34:50 SpeedEvil: yep, now just waiting on the N900 Nov 18 21:35:03 free super saver shipping on pointy sticks though, which is nice Nov 18 21:35:19 N900s are being delayed by 3 months Nov 18 21:35:48 to what? March? Nov 18 21:35:54 Nokia shipped the entire first batch to Nicaragua, to replace failing OLPCs. Nov 18 21:36:00 aw man Nov 18 21:36:03 RST38h: :twitch: Nov 18 21:36:13 lol Nov 18 21:36:15 Lorthirk: si Nov 18 21:36:26 spoiled little nicaraguin brats Nov 18 21:36:31 me too, but i think we should speak english here :) Nov 18 21:37:45 Stskeeps: if only i knew more details about the watchdogs... Nov 18 21:38:29 dsme code is published, that kicks them Nov 18 21:39:23 To really diagnose the problem i'd probably need to know about every particular watchdog and its effect on the system. :| Nov 18 21:40:14 There are 3 Nov 18 21:40:43 One for when important system processes die, one for when the system goes into 100% CPU mode for too long and one for something else. Nov 18 21:41:53 GeneralAntilles: I've heard about it but it's not exactly telling anything about their timeouts, effect on the system and the way they're connected to the SoC. :( Nov 18 21:42:45 Why not just disable them all and move on? Nov 18 21:44:02 qwerty12_N900, it doesn't work. Nov 18 21:44:23 Generalantilles: Works here Nov 18 21:45:03 GeneralAntilles: i've read one blog post about the retu watchdog and it says it can't be effectively disabled, it reboot the system unconditionally after ~60 seconds if you try. Nov 18 21:45:37 PaulFertser, then go look at the DSME code to see how to kick it. Nov 18 21:46:34 GeneralAntilles: ok, thanks for the pointer. Nov 18 21:46:50 PaulFertser, Stskeeps pointed that one out a while ago. Nov 18 21:47:04 qwerty12_N900, you're such an evil tease. Nov 18 21:47:34 GeneralAntilles: i know, i just felt obliged to say something nice to you ;) Nov 18 21:48:14 who is from UK here ? =] Nov 18 21:48:23 Because it'd be strange if i blamed you for the lack of schematics and the datasheets. Nov 18 21:48:24 me, and im still waiting Nov 18 21:48:49 Jaffa, ping? Nov 18 21:50:03 Generalantilles: Just deleted /usr/bin/FBReader and reinstalled from that same deb with the result that it works Nov 18 21:53:46 Grr Nov 18 21:54:10 hmm, anyone looking at fosdem from community? Nov 18 21:54:17 deadline 22th Nov 18 21:54:54 Somebody else test http://qwerty12.qole.org/fbreader_0.10.7-1_armel.deb to see if the volume rockers scroll. Nov 18 21:55:39 Ah, bollocks Nov 18 21:55:51 You need the libzlibrary, too Nov 18 21:55:52 GeneralAntilles: yeah, I tested it, didn't work. Nov 18 21:56:02 qwerty12_N900, hate you. Nov 18 21:56:03 Sec Nov 18 21:56:15 is that the library that apparently openvpn requires now too? Nov 18 21:56:50 oh nevermind, that's liblzo2-2, whatever that is Nov 18 21:57:32 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lempel-Ziv-Oberhumer Nov 18 21:57:46 General: http://qwerty12.qole.org/libzlibrary_0.10.7-1_armel.deb Nov 18 21:57:48 ahh, thanks Nov 18 21:57:49 * Xisdibik is jealous of qwerty12_N900 Nov 18 21:58:04 what I don't understand, is why that package disappeared. openvpn installed about a week back just fine Nov 18 21:58:40 Xisdibik: Don't be: This is only a loaner Nov 18 21:59:42 qwerty12_N900, i know, but i's still wants one nowww :( Nov 18 22:00:29 qwerty12_N900, i had my hands on an actual n900 last night! Nov 18 22:00:46 * Xisdibik is now jealous of lcuk also Nov 18 22:00:48 lcuk! Nov 18 22:00:53 lcuk: "actual" being the final thing? =) Nov 18 22:01:01 * GeneralAntilles really wishes for that white lettering. Nov 18 22:01:03 GeneralAntilles: im downloading the fbreader now, if it scrolls you are going to be in my good books for a very very long time :) Nov 18 22:01:08 lol, well one that is marked as n900 yeah Nov 18 22:01:31 GeneralAntilles: and qole of course :) Nov 18 22:01:31 i had to give it back :'( Nov 18 22:01:31 realitygaps, thank qwerty12. Nov 18 22:01:35 But wait until he hands over the frickin' libzlib Nov 18 22:01:52 09:57pm General: http://qwerty12.qole.org/libzlibrary_0.10.7-1_armel.deb Nov 18 22:02:00 fbreader been updated to scroll?> Nov 18 22:02:05 Nope Nov 18 22:02:19 qwerty12's just a giant tease. Nov 18 22:02:20 I just needed the effin' volume keys Nov 18 22:02:21 is libz the backend format library Nov 18 22:02:24 or the ui front end? Nov 18 22:02:36 lcuk, um, neither? Nov 18 22:02:42 It's the UI lib Nov 18 22:03:05 qwerty12: does it scroll? if so you are THE man Nov 18 22:03:09 interesting Nov 18 22:03:15 fbreader on liqbase o_O Nov 18 22:03:50 lcuk, it's the reason FBReader is so slow. Nov 18 22:04:39 nahhh theres many other things trasnpiring against it Nov 18 22:04:53 realitygaps: No, I did say it only has the volume keys enabled for switching pages. But now that you come to mention it, kinetic would be cool... Nov 18 22:05:00 lcuk, mostly libzlib, though. Nov 18 22:05:25 qwerty12_N900, way too slow for kinetic. Nov 18 22:05:33 qwerty12_N900: thats what i meant tho :) volume scroll Nov 18 22:06:00 Ah, yeah, it does that :) Nov 18 22:06:02 qwerty12_N900, that was the starting point for liqbase lol Nov 18 22:06:09 the proof point Nov 18 22:06:16 qwerty12_N900: does it need the libzlib also? Nov 18 22:07:22 realitygaps: Yeah, http://qwerty12.qole.org/libzlibrary_0.10.7-1_armel.deb and http://qwerty12.qole.org/fbreader_0.10.7-1_armel.deb should do it Nov 18 22:07:30 hey qwerty12_N900 no one who got a loaner was from the San Francisco bay area right? Nov 18 22:07:44 lcuk: Heh, I've just had flashbacks Nov 18 22:07:56 leeeeenucks tag Nov 18 22:08:04 * realitygaps owes qwerty12 a whole bunch of beer! Nov 18 22:08:18 works great, you have made my phone 10x more useful :) Nov 18 22:08:31 Xisdibik: No idea, actually Nov 18 22:08:33 :) Nov 18 22:09:10 have a long train ride to riga on friday was dreading the stylus tap scrolling for the 700 page book im reading :) Nov 18 22:09:41 qwerty12_N900, aaaah! Brilliant! Nov 18 22:09:55 realitygaps, you can rebind keys, you know, right? Nov 18 22:10:14 realitygaps, F/R fullscreen/rotate and spacebar for paging. Nov 18 22:10:20 GeneralAntilles: yep but the lack of hardware keys made it annoying Nov 18 22:10:29 had space for full screen and R/L for page turns Nov 18 22:10:35 qwerty12_N900, I had a horrible nightmare last week, except it was real, I was waiting to transfer from one train to another on my way home from school, and every single person around me had an iphone Nov 18 22:11:04 lol Nov 18 22:11:08 welcome to my world Nov 18 22:11:32 Xisdibik, horrible Nov 18 22:11:36 Xisdibik: Ah, in my college, iPhone is the phone of choice. I just want to cry Nov 18 22:11:39 lemmings Nov 18 22:11:50 qwerty12_N900, same at my school Nov 18 22:12:14 Apple targets students now. Nov 18 22:12:19 my old old phone like 2 phones ago, was an O2 XDA exec, and when the iphone first came out, people would always ask me "is that an iphone" and i would reply "F*** no its not" Nov 18 22:12:20 Why cry? Who cares what someone else uses? Nov 18 22:12:31 where I work, everyone has Nokia's Nov 18 22:12:38 GiantTalkingCow, because its sad to see how stupid people are in society/ Nov 18 22:13:07 Xisdibik: What about owning an iPhone makes 'em stupid? Most people have limited needs that it addresses. Nov 18 22:13:33 GiantTalkingCow, because there are other phones that do the exact same thing for hte exact same price, but are better? Nov 18 22:13:35 most people want fart apps Nov 18 22:13:41 only the iphones delives Nov 18 22:13:46 delivers* Nov 18 22:13:47 mikhas, point taken Nov 18 22:14:15 There are plenty of other apps out there. Lots of 'em sell well. Like my GF's med school anatomy app, for example. Useful as hell. Nov 18 22:16:10 also GiantTalkingCow most of the people out their dont get the iphone for its functionality, they get it because "its the iphone, i gotta have it to be cool" Nov 18 22:16:28 ive had a bunch of people say 'oh, cool iphone' about the n900 Nov 18 22:16:35 then i pulled out the keyboard :) Nov 18 22:16:37 Xisdibik: That's not what anyone I know who owns one has said. Nov 18 22:16:46 GiantTalkingCow, then your lucky? Nov 18 22:16:55 Or you're unlucky. Nov 18 22:17:07 nope, im pretty lucky most of the time, so i doubt it Nov 18 22:17:08 :) Nov 18 22:17:35 realitygaps: Did they die in shock? Buttons? Lots of them? On a phone? :p Nov 18 22:17:37 Well, it may be an age thing. How old are you? Nov 18 22:17:43 *of Nov 18 22:17:47 24 Nov 18 22:18:19 GiantTalkingCow, could be a location thing as well, where do you live? Nov 18 22:18:21 Nah, can't be that then. I'm only 4 years older and most of my friends are in their 20s or early 30s. Bad luck, I say again. Nov 18 22:18:42 In San Francisco, California. West coast of North America. Nov 18 22:18:49 same place i am :P Nov 18 22:19:04 Im downtown as we speak at work :P Nov 18 22:19:19 most of the people who buy iphones to be cool are the so cal university students though :P Nov 18 22:19:22 I have the day off. :) Nov 18 22:19:29 i have thursday off :) Nov 18 22:19:56 are you getting the n900 GiantTalkingCow ? Nov 18 22:19:59 qwerty12: they asked wow when did apple add a keyboard. they died in shock when i said it wasnt apple Nov 18 22:20:27 No idea, really. I think I'll wait a little while and see how the app support is. That said, I love stuff with a physical keyboard. Nov 18 22:20:35 qwerty12: but one guy was like 'oh my god is that an n900 let me see let me see' Nov 18 22:20:39 http://www.tek-9.org/news/iwnet_allegedly_spreading_a_trojan_virus-2173.html Nov 18 22:20:53 realitygaps: "when did apple add a keyboard" - now that just makes me giggle Nov 18 22:20:59 realitygaps, I've only had iPhone misidentifications twice. Nov 18 22:21:27 What I don't get is why people think that everything is an iPhone. There are like 2 million touchscreen phones out there. Nov 18 22:21:41 GeneralAntilles: ive had it every time but one. mostly on public transport or in clubs/bars Nov 18 22:21:55 GiantTalkingCow, for the same reason lots of people buy them. Nov 18 22:21:57 Because they're clueless. Nov 18 22:22:58 It just occurred to me that the n900 might be a nice platform for emulators. (we were having an old games discussion in another channel) Nov 18 22:23:15 Erm Nov 18 22:23:16 Unlike the no-keyboard phones, controls are a cinch. Nov 18 22:23:26 GiantTalkingCow: what rock have you been hiding under? Nov 18 22:23:30 http://fms.komkon.org/ Nov 18 22:24:12 Ceron^: im quite certain thats just the downloaded patch for the game, and avira reporting a false positive Nov 18 22:24:19 moin Nov 18 22:24:22 Stskeeps: The one were I've been studying for the bar exam for a while, making me not so up to date on all sorts of stuff. I just found out some black guy was elected president last week. Nov 18 22:24:27 see? that means we STILL don't have enough ads about n900 classic emulators! Nov 18 22:24:27 Stskeeps, Granite, why do you ask? ;) Nov 18 22:24:51 javispedro: Add a fart function to DrNokSnes Nov 18 22:25:02 ^ this Nov 18 22:25:03 i wonder if those classic emulators make much sense, considering the small keys Nov 18 22:25:21 every mp3 player is an ipod, make sense than every keyboardless smartphone is an iphone, and every keyboarded smartphone is a blackberry Nov 18 22:25:25 tbf, Wiimote. Nov 18 22:25:28 GiantTalkingCow: some of the emus are nice already, im looking for a bt joypad or something to use them to the max Nov 18 22:25:29 * javispedro wonders too many things, but enjoys the ride either way Nov 18 22:25:30 could not even imagine how to control those emulators with the accelerator Nov 18 22:25:45 was looking at a wiimote but they are pretty pricey Nov 18 22:25:48 mavhc, I see more Moto Qs than Blackberrys Nov 18 22:26:05 VDVsx, GeneralAntilles: Misha(s): don't know him. Mikhas = My Company. Nov 18 22:26:08 realitygaps, not that pricey. Nov 18 22:26:08 qwerty12_N900: ssht! you're going to remind me that I need to work on it! ;) Nov 18 22:26:23 andre__, still not sure where VDVsx came up with the other guy. :P Nov 18 22:26:25 GeneralAntilles, i am actualy so happy i have a wii when i saw that wiimote video Nov 18 22:26:26 wiimote pricey? have you look at how much the n900 costs? Nov 18 22:26:44 maybe I missed something in the backlog Nov 18 22:27:03 GeneralAntilles, because he's very active in tmo these days, my bad Nov 18 22:27:07 GeneralAntilles: people tell me they've bought a blackberry and show me a windows phone Nov 18 22:27:08 they wanted 45euro for wiimote here in estonia Nov 18 22:27:31 * qwerty12_N900 ticks Estonia off his list Nov 18 22:27:33 javispedro: i dont know if i would have been able to afford an n900 right now, was lucky enough to be at the amsterdam summit Nov 18 22:27:36 realitygaps: That's overpriced, to say the least. Nov 18 22:27:41 Ah, sucks, it's $35 USD here. Nov 18 22:27:59 lucky americans, although i wouldnt give up public transport for cheap tech :) or maybe.,.... Nov 18 22:28:11 realitygaps, regional issue. Nov 18 22:28:17 maybe it'll be cheaper in berlin, im heading there on the weekend Nov 18 22:28:20 so wait GiantTalkingCow are you buying the n900, or just like the platform? Nov 18 22:28:33 javispedro: Yeah, finish adding the shrine to Jobs first... Nov 18 22:28:45 Xisdibik: I don't know at this point. Nov 18 22:29:32 Why is it that I confuse Estonia with Latvia so often? The names sound nothing alike, nor do the capital names. Nov 18 22:29:52 PaulFertser: Linux-OMAP supported N810 at varying degrees until 2.6.30-rc8; after that, support was removed because the code became incompatible Nov 18 22:30:16 GiantTalkingCow: im actually right on the border between the two at the moment Nov 18 22:30:27 luke-jr: it was dropped? heh Nov 18 22:30:53 GiantTalkingCow: i think its since they are both in the baltics perhaps? i confused latvia and linthuania a lot before i visited one of them Nov 18 22:31:37 timeless_mbp: thankfully Kalle Vallo (sp?) is updating it for mainline, but can only do so off Nokia-paid time -.- Nov 18 22:31:54 qwerty12_N900: you going to post the fbreader to t.m.o? im sure some other people will be ecstatic Nov 18 22:32:55 realitygaps: Nah, it was just a quick hack Nov 18 22:33:20 realitygaps: I suppose. But I know where they are, they sound nothing alike, and what's more the languages are nothing alike. (seeing as Estonian's related to Finnish and Hungarian) Nov 18 22:33:48 qwerty12_N900, at least send the patch to their tracker. Maybe it'll spur some real effort for the Stars program. Nov 18 22:34:31 Generalantilles: Can't be arsed to run diff; I just shoved up the tarball on qwerty12.qole.org Nov 18 22:34:57 Generalantilles: What we really need is a way to shock people over the internet... Nov 18 22:35:40 hmm, seems like ChromeOS components have been leaked Nov 18 22:35:45 GiantTalkingCow: they really are nothing alike... I prefer estonia somehow, but ive spent a lot more time here so probably biased Nov 18 22:35:46 http://src.chromium.org/viewvc/chrome/trunk/src/chrome/browser/resources/about_os_credits.html?revision=32096 Nov 18 22:35:51 Stskeeps: The bling? Nov 18 22:36:03 clutter, connman, slim Nov 18 22:36:08 Shocking people over the internet is easy. Tell them that whatever celebrity chick they have a crush on is actually a man. Natalie Portman, for example. Or Jessica Alba. Nov 18 22:36:12 connman, I knew! :) Nov 18 22:36:14 qwerty12_N900: its just a small hack, but i was trying to get that working for a week on scratchbox already Nov 18 22:36:52 more curiously: tpm-emulator Nov 18 22:36:55 that fbreader/libz should replace the one in the freemantle repos i think Nov 18 22:37:09 qwerty12_N900, I've been saying that for years. :P Nov 18 22:37:16 google next up on 'evil drm'? :> Nov 18 22:37:57 Chrome OS is so pointless. Nov 18 22:38:13 qwerty12: As far as I care, dipping people into shit over internet is sufficient, and it is already possible Nov 18 22:38:21 Well, except for harvesting people's data. Nov 18 22:38:38 but if it has 'google' written on it it will probably gain traction. im shocked how many linux users i know are running chrome Nov 18 22:38:47 and not the iron version Nov 18 22:38:47 so what is it? another castrated linux with google chrome on top? Nov 18 22:39:52 GeneralAntilles: Why's that? Nov 18 22:39:54 It's everything you need to make a web browser into an OS. Nov 18 22:40:10 like, an OS. Nov 18 22:40:27 RST38h: basically Nov 18 22:40:36 as far as i can tell :P Nov 18 22:40:42 Sts: umgh. Nov 18 22:40:50 oh, and -intel video driver Nov 18 22:40:56 not as castrated as android though I think. Nov 18 22:41:04 That component list is a joke Nov 18 22:41:16 qwerty12_N900: yeah, it's of course not complete Nov 18 22:41:32 Man, it's interesting to see what passes as an OS nowadays... Nov 18 22:42:02 qwerty: Palm WebOS does Nov 18 22:42:24 ok, sleep. Nov 18 22:44:05 it's pointless because everyone likes looking after their OS, keeping it secure, updated, etc? Nov 18 22:49:22 http://www.themaemo.com lol Nov 18 22:52:06 that any idiot could put up something with a CMS was a bad idea.. Nov 18 22:52:06 :P Nov 18 22:54:15 * qwerty12_N900 mutters something about the goggles not helping... Nov 18 23:02:25 Stskeeps: almost done with the gui part of the new Mer Installer btw; got a couple of screenshots here: http://b-man.xceleo.org/images/mer/ ;) Nov 18 23:02:41 good, did you add error checking yet? :P Nov 18 23:03:01 i´m working on it ;) Nov 18 23:03:22 you need to test every single possibility :P Nov 18 23:03:29 and code path Nov 18 23:03:36 i know :P Nov 18 23:10:39 night all Nov 18 23:12:57 mh. will there be a way to globally adjust font size? Nov 18 23:14:06 I really don't know what people see on the N900 to open so many fansites... Nov 18 23:14:42 It's a consumer product. This is what consumers do. Nov 18 23:15:09 open fansites and be excited even without exactly knowing what the product does ? :) Nov 18 23:15:14 Yes. Nov 18 23:15:23 I though that was the case. :) Nov 18 23:15:40 They've seen advertisements. What more is there to know? Nov 18 23:15:46 Advertisements would never lie. Nov 18 23:16:37 heheh :D Nov 18 23:17:12 N900 is *the* nokia product of all times, a true flagship, messiah and whatever Nov 18 23:17:21 it that doesnt deserve fanboyism, what does Nov 18 23:17:35 my mates in Am*dam were calling it 'the jesus phone' Nov 18 23:17:52 VDVsx, ping? Nov 18 23:17:55 iphöynkilla Nov 18 23:18:12 * javispedro was surprised when long time ago I had to tell someone "it won't run his symbian apps" which is something he assumed. his answer? "ah, what a pity. wouldn't you know when it's shipping?" Nov 18 23:18:24 so, in reality, nobody has a production unit in their hands yet? Nov 18 23:19:22 GeneralAntilles, pong Nov 18 23:22:15 Ave: doesnt look like anyone has one yet Nov 18 23:22:28 :] Nov 18 23:22:43 the anticipation seems to be so great its almost derailing earth from the orbit Nov 18 23:22:58 VDVsx, mind if I room with you? Nov 18 23:23:11 I thought the guy that won one at one of the maemo meetup things at one of the nokia stores, or something Nov 18 23:23:14 GeneralAntilles, nop :) Nov 18 23:24:00 I got to touch one on Sunday, but I dunno if it was a production unit Nov 18 23:24:08 * VDVsx is testing the maemo SDK noob edition ;) Nov 18 23:25:01 VDVsx: Ah, good job. They're waiting for feedback from their target audience Nov 18 23:25:07 realitygaps, except for the cool cats. ;) Nov 18 23:25:08 qwerty12_N900, ehehe Nov 18 23:25:19 maemo sdk noob edition? interesting Nov 18 23:25:41 now anyone can install it, good job nokia Nov 18 23:25:53 javispedro, = gui installer Nov 18 23:25:57 Is that the Python script thing? Nov 18 23:25:59 Yep Nov 18 23:26:00 aaaah Nov 18 23:26:09 it creates shortcuts and everything Nov 18 23:26:10 but I guess it's the same old evil. Nov 18 23:26:14 still disables vdso Nov 18 23:26:20 qwerty12_N900, yes, PyQt Nov 18 23:26:30 oh ironic Nov 18 23:26:34 :) Nov 18 23:27:03 seems that Pyside isn't ready yet Nov 18 23:29:25 stupid amazon and their mistletoe icon, taunting me.. they must want me to eat it and die Nov 18 23:30:54 does anybody here know who some of the independent retailers referred to in that nokia press release are? Nov 18 23:31:36 * wiretapped wonders if there is a store in SF where I can buy one Nov 18 23:31:58 like amazon ? Nov 18 23:32:16 wiretapped: I wandered into the nokia store in Chicago on Sunday and they said "a couple weeks" Nov 18 23:32:51 holy shit Nov 18 23:33:00 people are gonna go mental Nov 18 23:33:18 rumors after rumors, someone oughta confirm someething Nov 18 23:33:24 I also saw them say "a couple weeks" to at least 3 other people that wandered in during the 15 minutes I was there Nov 18 23:33:38 so, I foresee riots in a couple weeks Nov 18 23:33:44 but do they really nkow Nov 18 23:34:13 newegg's date went from 11/14 to 11/30 at some point a while ago Nov 18 23:34:23 amazon has no date Nov 18 23:34:37 my amazon pre order says it'll arrive after Christmas Nov 18 23:34:45 with a cute little mistletoe icon to taunt me Nov 18 23:35:47 * wiretapped has had the same LG clamshell since before the Nokia 770 was announced Nov 18 23:36:09 * wiretapped is ready for an always-on internet tablet Nov 18 23:36:23 more than ready, in fact Nov 18 23:36:29 always on, if you have charger handy Nov 18 23:36:52 or a source of usb power... Nov 18 23:36:56 hand-crank! Nov 18 23:37:11 * wiretapped has charged his 770 and N800 with a hand crank Nov 18 23:37:21 I need one of those Nov 18 23:37:28 it didn't work well Nov 18 23:37:40 haha Nov 18 23:37:44 oh dear Nov 18 23:37:45 what if you pay a toddler to crank it? Nov 18 23:38:23 that's illegal in most contries Nov 18 23:38:29 when the device had turned off from low battery... the handcrank was able to boot it up and keep it running, but after ~30 minutes of charging it ran for less than 10 after stopping Nov 18 23:38:57 so, not particularly practical Nov 18 23:39:48 you obviously crunk too slowly Nov 18 23:41:58 wiretapped, need a treadmill. Nov 18 23:45:38 I have a dwarf hamster, I hooked up a bicycle speedometer to her wheel Nov 18 23:45:42 she runs 10 km a night Nov 18 23:45:52 think of the possibilities for recharging Nov 18 23:46:02 I applaud your scientific approach Nov 18 23:46:10 10km seems a lot Nov 18 23:46:17 maybe even more Nov 18 23:46:27 the stupid meter powers off after 4 minute idle Nov 18 23:46:58 and you made absolutely sure that the hamster did not hack the speedometer? Nov 18 23:47:13 you can never know Nov 18 23:47:17 http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2711/4017763294_6f42ec9225_o.jpg Nov 18 23:47:23 there she is, eating a sunflower seed Nov 18 23:47:38 she looks clever ... Nov 18 23:47:40 OR devising a cunning plan to take over the world Nov 18 23:48:05 qwerty12_N900, do you know any workaround to open the 'session bus' in maemo in a app running with sudo permissions ? Nov 18 23:50:49 Mh, I just realised that for people not familiar with linux and/or the command line, scratchbox could be quite a pain to set up. A few people are complaining on the forum. I think maemo would benefit quite a bit if the SDK was easier to use. I personally don't care, but I guess it should be on a roadmap of sorts. Nov 18 23:51:23 That's what the vmware images are for. Nov 18 23:52:40 The last image i tried didn't have anything pre-setup... Though the website referenced in the readme had some instructions on which instructions tell you which instructions to follow Nov 18 23:53:09 VDVsx: iirc you can set DBUS_SESSION_BUS_ADDRESS ? Nov 18 23:53:18 not sure if there is another step necessary too Nov 18 23:54:02 derf: ah. Are they in some obvious place? People are complaining about lack of clarity. Well, when I was looking for what to do, I came to the "install the SDK on 32-bit debian" wiki article, which worked fine for me Nov 18 23:54:48 Shapeshifter: Google? Nov 18 23:55:02 The Diablo ones were pretty easy to find. Nov 18 23:55:33 No idea about Fremantle; haven't looked. Nov 18 23:57:40 derf: I'm talking about a non-maemo-regular looking for information. For example, if you google for "maemo 5 skd install" there's a whole lot about the beta SDK with http://maemo.org/development/sdks/maemo_5_beta_sdk/ being the first hit, and on that page for example, there's no link saying "HEY the FINAL is out, so ignore this" Nov 18 23:58:06 then one clicks on "Maemo SDK installer" and what he gets is an .sh file to download... Nov 18 23:58:09 Shapeshifter, ideally there would be some remote virtual boxen that windows users could use, no? Nov 18 23:58:20 flashed after each use Nov 18 23:58:48 So, I'd say for your "typical windows iphone programmer" it's quite hard to get the SDK running. There's no straightforward way of knowing. Nov 18 23:59:44 on that page, there's even no reference at all to the final SDK, everything beta, at the right in the menu, only if you go to SDK releases there's a link to the nokia final SDK page Nov 19 00:00:04 wirelessdreamer, that's probably related to the SDK, this is another issue I think Nov 19 00:00:32 http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo5_Final_Installation and here there is _no_ reference at all to the vbox images Nov 19 00:00:45 and this page is referenced on the nokia SDK download page Nov 19 00:12:36 * realitygaps reading away on fbreader thanks qwerty12_N900 for fixing the volume scrolling Nov 19 00:13:32 VDVsx: I'm pretty sure what wiretapped said was right. Nov 19 00:13:47 Or I've mis-understood your question. Nov 19 00:15:35 derf, basically if I run the code as user or root it works, but if I run the code as user with sudo permissions it fails to connect to the session bus, but it connects to the system bus Nov 19 00:16:27 I guess I don't know what you mean by "user with sudo permissions". Nov 19 00:17:46 derf, yeah, maemo is weird, like this "sudo app name" (with the respective sudoers file in place) Nov 19 00:18:21 Okay, that's still running it as root. Nov 19 00:18:31 But with a fresh environment. Nov 19 00:18:50 You still need to set that DBUS environment variable. Nov 19 00:19:10 derf, gonna try to export it Nov 19 00:19:33 E.g., Nov 19 00:19:37 pid=`ps | grep '/usr/bin/maemo[-]launcher' | awk '{print $1}'` Nov 19 00:19:44 export DBUS_SESSION_BUS_ADDRESS=`/bin/grep \^DBUS_SESSION_BUS_ADDRESS= /proc/$pid/environ | sed -e 's/DBUS_SESSION_BUS_ADDRESS=//'` Nov 19 00:20:21 dbus-monitor --session Nov 19 00:20:23 signal sender=org.freedesktop.DBus -> dest=:1.17 path=/org/freedesktop/DBus; interface=org.freedesktop.DBus; member=NameAcquired string ":1.17" Nov 19 00:20:51 Whereas if I don't do the export first I get Nov 19 00:20:52 dbus-monitor --session Nov 19 00:20:53 process 1464: D-Bus library appears to be incorrectly set up; Nov 19 00:20:58 (etc. etc.) Nov 19 00:22:47 * RXrenesis8 appears in a cloud of smoke Nov 19 00:59:31 derf, I found a shorter solution in the maemo docs, but can get it to work: eval $(dbus-launch --sh-syntax) Nov 19 00:59:31 export BUS_SESSION_BUS_ADDRESS Nov 19 00:59:31 export DBUS_SESSION_BUS_PID Nov 19 01:01:35 Uh, that would start a new session. Nov 19 01:01:53 Which I don't think is what you want. Nov 19 01:02:49 I mean DBUS_SESSION_BUS_ADDRESS appears to be hard-coded to unix:path=/tmp/session_bus_socket Nov 19 01:02:59 If you want something "shorter". Nov 19 01:03:23 I was just generalizing what I use on other systems: find a known process that's connected to the session bus and get the address from its environment. Nov 19 01:04:49 But as long as it remains hard-coded to that same value, export DBUS_SESSION_BUS_ADDRESS='unix:path=/tmp/session_bus_socket' should be sufficient. Nov 19 01:05:11 derf, let me try Nov 19 01:09:01 derf, still getting: "Failed to open connection to session message bus: (null)" :( Nov 19 01:09:52 And what's the commands you're running? Nov 19 01:11:25 tried to export the hardcode path, but probably it failed retrieving the path Nov 19 01:11:41 No, I mean the exact commands. Nov 19 01:14:58 derf, export DBUS_SESSION_BUS_ADDRESS=unix:abstract=/tmp/dbus-BOe5BcpUpl,guid=11e1360c2e28da0ca65812af0000023b Nov 19 01:15:32 Huh? Nov 19 01:15:50 That looks like it comes from a desktop, not the device. Nov 19 01:16:27 derf, nop, from here:Nokia-N900-42-11:~# Nov 19 01:16:38 I guess they changed the hard-code path on the N900. Nov 19 01:16:47 Which is why I gave you the first approach. Nov 19 01:16:51 But anyway, that's only one command. Nov 19 01:17:06 How are you running the actual program? Nov 19 01:17:25 sudo app name Nov 19 01:17:32 it's a python script Nov 19 01:17:46 You're just going export ... ; sudo app name? Nov 19 01:18:26 I did the export inside the app, probably is the cause of the problem Nov 19 01:18:46 No, it would have to be done inside the app. Nov 19 01:18:53 Or in a wrapper script invoked by sudo. Nov 19 01:19:11 I don't know that export is the correct thing in Python, though. Nov 19 01:19:25 I would expect it to be setenv or something similar. Nov 19 01:19:29 But I don't really know Python. Nov 19 01:19:54 I'm doing os.system(export ...) Nov 19 01:20:04 Yeah, okay, that doesn't actually do anything. Nov 19 01:20:05 so should work as in the shell Nov 19 01:20:23 It starts a shell with its own environment, in which you set the variable, and then that shell immediately exits. Nov 19 01:20:37 And the parent process (the Python script) is unaffected. Nov 19 01:21:11 bah, so I should use os.putenv Nov 19 01:21:43 That sounds promising. Nov 19 01:21:58 lol Nov 19 01:22:39 it sets environment variables Nov 19 01:22:46 phew.... roaming should get cheaper damn it. A lot cheaper. I get 1GB traffic in my country for 29 bucks, while 1MB of traffic costs 5-15bucks when romaing. Nov 19 01:22:50 insane prices Nov 19 01:25:22 derf, ah now the error changed, so the var is affected Nov 19 01:29:06 If you control the Python script, another simple way to get the right value to it should be to pass it on the command-line. Nov 19 01:29:37 VDVsx: os.environ probably, actually. Nov 19 01:30:07 VDVsx: (check the docs, modifying os.environ affects the actual environment too, but calling os.putenv directly doesn't update os.environ, iirc) Nov 19 01:30:48 Anyway, time for me to go. Nov 19 01:30:50 also, if this is about sudo: sudo's env stripping is configurable Nov 19 01:32:31 mzz, I know, but putenv is enough in this case, I think Nov 19 01:32:57 mzz, what to do meant by configurable, didn't get it :P Nov 19 01:33:14 *do you Nov 19 01:33:44 VDVsx: man sudoers, it mentions env Nov 19 01:52:12 US soldiers, you CAN get out of the army! Read Ayn Rand and discover why aggression is wrong! If you learn theÃlessons, you CAN GET OUT of the US Military!!! Nov 19 01:52:50 pupnik_, US military is all-volunteer. :P Nov 19 02:03:52 lol Nov 19 02:11:24 the risks of open source conversation is funny Nov 19 02:47:11 dmj726, didn't you hear? It steals your credit card information and beats your dog. Nov 19 02:47:44 What does? Nov 19 02:47:51 OO.o? Nov 19 02:48:17 my neighbor? Nov 19 02:48:33 your neighbor using OO.o? Nov 19 02:48:57 Oh yeah...I'm so worried about the inherent insecurities in Ubuntu and how all the FOSS apps in the repos are going to turn out to be trojans. Nov 19 02:50:16 I'm worried that Ubuntu is dog slow compared to decent distros, and yet gets the lion's share of media attention despite sorta sucking. Thankfully, tomorrow's Google OS announcement will steal its thunder but good. Nov 19 02:50:37 will it? Nov 19 02:50:54 um...ChromeOS?...erm :-/ Nov 19 02:51:21 Yes, that. Nov 19 02:51:37 what's good about it? Nov 19 02:51:53 will chrome OS play flash video out of the box? :D Nov 19 02:51:55 (kidding lol) Nov 19 02:52:03 No one knows. But it's Google branded, meaning it'll have millions of people looking at it no matter what. Nov 19 02:52:15 It might even be good. **** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Nov 19 02:59:56 2009