**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Nov 22 02:59:57 2009 Nov 22 03:00:07 you pay $20 for a phone line? Nov 22 03:00:59 20 dollars would be for their cable internet access Nov 22 03:01:03 which country are you in atm seb? Nov 22 03:01:08 that's pretty standard for a phone line here... Nov 22 03:01:16 uk Nov 22 03:01:18 actually, rather low, except for VoIP Nov 22 03:01:23 yeah Nov 22 03:01:30 i realize that Nov 22 03:01:49 but 20 dollars for cable internet seems like a scam to me... Nov 22 03:01:50 haha Nov 22 03:02:30 That's what I paid from Comcast for my first 12 months. Nov 22 03:02:35 tadthebuilder: $20 for cable internet is very low in the USA Nov 22 03:02:39 its because their are tiers Nov 22 03:02:44 of usage Nov 22 03:02:44 speeds actually Nov 22 03:02:44 it's usually like $45/mo Nov 22 03:02:57 and that 1mbps Nov 22 03:03:04 which is all they offer in my area Nov 22 03:03:11 lol Nov 22 03:03:11 Ouch Nov 22 03:03:14 im pretty sure that rules out reliable voip Nov 22 03:03:16 I think mine is 15mbps Nov 22 03:03:23 tadthebuilder: no, voip can work with dialup Nov 22 03:03:47 did not realize that Nov 22 03:03:47 20/2Mbps at my parent's house with VoIP, and digital cable for about $120 with taxes. Nov 22 03:04:08 tadthebuilder: compressed, of course Nov 22 03:04:20 * GeneralAntilles stabs Freenode. Nov 22 03:04:22 tadthebuilder: but GSM codec, which IIRC is what GSM phones use too Nov 22 03:04:32 ah I see Nov 22 03:04:43 im not entirely sure but I think that its not unlimited too Nov 22 03:04:51 or its unlimited sorta Nov 22 03:05:09 at 1mbit max they could have a low limit and still never hit it Nov 22 03:05:28 pft Nov 22 03:05:29 haha Nov 22 03:05:34 Wideband voice codecs work pretty well and 32kbps. Nov 22 03:05:34 you have to be burning up the copper to do that Nov 22 03:05:40 s/and/at Nov 22 03:06:06 lcuk: most US ISPs have a 5 GB limit, which you can easily hit with 56kbps Nov 22 03:06:21 cell phone ISPs* Nov 22 03:06:21 That's before overhead. UDP/RTP overhead will take up the rest of dial-up's 56kbps. Nov 22 03:06:27 * lcuk nods depends on usage of course Nov 22 03:06:39 i would hit 5 gigs in a week Nov 22 03:06:47 and also that price would not be what I get Nov 22 03:06:59 luke-jr: I have never had a US ISP with a 5 GB limit. Nov 22 03:07:05 I used 3.2 GB today. Nov 22 03:07:13 and I don't think I even did any torrenting Nov 22 03:07:15 thats for people who have tv service its twenty dollars a month to add internet Nov 22 03:07:18 derf: cell phone ISP Nov 22 03:07:18 i cannot find their typical price Nov 22 03:07:30 luke-jr: Oh. Yes. Nov 22 03:08:46 the problem is I dont want tv Nov 22 03:08:50 if I have internet why would I need tv... Nov 22 03:09:20 Free.fr, 30eur pm, 28Meg dsl internet (100% unlimited), Free VOIP across any interesting part of the world (landlines only by default, mobiles included for US/Canada), + 300 TV channels provided through a set top box which does DVR (300gig HD) and can be connected through CPL or ethernet Nov 22 03:09:25 compete with that, bitch ;) Nov 22 03:10:02 thats sixty usd a month aproximately right? Nov 22 03:10:47 hmmm... Nov 22 03:10:47 kensington trackball/mouse thing which doesn't use bluetooth: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Kensington-SlimBlade-Trackball-Mouse-Si860/dp/B000UR3TME Nov 22 03:10:47 or dedicated logitech trackball which does: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Logitech-904369-0914-Wireless-TrackMan-Optical/dp/B00006FMH1/ Nov 22 03:10:50 tadthebuilder, less, about 45 Nov 22 03:11:19 i live in the middle of nowwhere north carolina, which is why my options stink Nov 22 03:12:45 tadthebuilder: Western half? Nov 22 03:13:03 eastern half Nov 22 03:13:09 martin county Nov 22 03:13:30 about an hour and a half west of nagshead Nov 22 03:14:01 Yes, that's also pretty much the middle of nowhere. Nov 22 03:14:02 (maybe less, just movie here...) Nov 22 03:14:16 live in a town of 7000 people I think Nov 22 03:14:16 Robot101, I really like the Kensingtons. Nov 22 03:14:36 A good friend of mine is from Clinton, but that's fairly well south of where you are. Nov 22 03:14:37 http://www.amazon.co.uk/Kensington-Expert-Mouse-Trackball-compatible/dp/B00009KH63/ref=sr_1_24?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1258859662&sr=1-24 was the one I used last Nov 22 03:14:44 Although it's been replaced by an MX Revolution for a few years. Nov 22 03:15:00 Robot101: can't sleep because of mice issues? :) Nov 22 03:15:28 ah makes sense derf Nov 22 03:15:30 So far the only thing I've been able to establish is that I suck at CTF Nov 22 03:15:40 lol Nov 22 03:16:14 I went to school in NC and my parents retired down there, so I've been all over the state. Nov 22 03:16:22 But still never quite to your neck of the woods. Nov 22 03:16:29 zeenix: lol, why are you awake? :P Nov 22 03:16:35 there is nothing here worth seeing Nov 22 03:16:37 zeenix: I'm kinda on eastern time atm, not sure why Nov 22 03:16:38 unless you like funs Nov 22 03:16:40 guns* Nov 22 03:16:47 there is store that claims to be the largest gun store in america Nov 22 03:16:51 Yeah, at leats in the west you've got mountains. Nov 22 03:16:52 zeenix: playing with my PC on the projector, upgrading it and deciding how to control it from the sofa :) Nov 22 03:16:56 *least Nov 22 03:17:12 I just moved here and its not horrible Nov 22 03:17:20 but their isnt much either Nov 22 03:17:21 "Typical usage" is defined as up to 21GB per month for users on their 1Mbps tier Nov 22 03:17:32 Robot101, BlueMaemo! Nov 22 03:17:33 they have not imposed caps Nov 22 03:17:34 Robot101, n900 + bluemaemo Nov 22 03:17:55 lol GeneralAntilles Nov 22 03:18:01 bluemaemo did f**k all for me Nov 22 03:18:02 but they are using a tool to show how much usage someone as used Nov 22 03:18:10 which is typically a step on the way to imposing limitations Nov 22 03:18:16 Robot101, try the new version in Extras-devel. Nov 22 03:18:34 I read the forums and fscked around editing crap and bla bla and it just sat there and did nothing Nov 22 03:18:52 Robot101, what exactly do you need Nov 22 03:19:05 Suddenlink thinks e-mails are a useful metric when talking about consumption, proclaiming that their definition of normal usage allows you to send "1.5 million emails." Nov 22 03:19:06 Robot101, it's been updated quite recently. Nov 22 03:19:23 thats what i use my highspeed internet for... Nov 22 03:19:41 * lcuk has a remote control that works over ip, it should really use tubes Nov 22 03:19:51 It's not that they think it's "useful", it's that it's good marketing. Nov 22 03:20:10 it seems like a pointless metric to me Nov 22 03:20:12 To people who don't know anything, which is most of them, that sounds like an absurd abundance. Nov 22 03:20:25 its like when a harddrive tells me how many mp3s it can hold... Nov 22 03:21:25 tadthebuilder, you DO send out 1.5million emails a week tho lol Nov 22 03:21:35 definitly Nov 22 03:21:42 its cause im actually a spambot Nov 22 03:22:21 GeneralAntilles: yeah I saw, lemme give it a try Nov 22 03:22:32 lcuk: just a pointer device to drive it from my sofa Nov 22 03:22:37 I got a kbd Nov 22 03:22:55 technically a wiimote would be perfect Nov 22 03:23:02 aim at screen Nov 22 03:25:09 I have a wiimote, it sucks Nov 22 03:25:24 well, I don't have the "sensor bar" (ie, two points of IR light) Nov 22 03:25:30 so it just acts as a relative input device Nov 22 03:25:49 simple accelerometer ala n900 Nov 22 03:25:51 you have to rotate/tilt it to move anywhere, and level it to stop moving Nov 22 03:26:10 Robot101, just get a freaking sensor bar. Nov 22 03:26:12 which is pretty loss for a mouse Nov 22 03:26:25 GeneralAntilles: I dunno if that will actually make it work with wminput though Nov 22 03:26:29 Yeah, which is exactly why Nintendo went with the sensor bar approach. :P Nov 22 03:27:09 GeneralAntilles, robot101 is right, the driver and software to run it isnt in use afaik Nov 22 03:27:31 wminput is this weird thing which you need to run each time, and re-pair the wiimote Nov 22 03:27:45 its not plain-sailing like bluetooth hid Nov 22 03:27:55 heh, the remote i use from n900 to my win desktop is ip Nov 22 03:28:04 ive never configured it beyond telling it ip Nov 22 03:28:15 and i can change the channel from anywhere in the world :D Nov 22 03:28:38 * lcuk huggles his zapto.org ip Nov 22 03:29:05 dsl is faster... Nov 22 03:29:35 tadthebuilder, faster in best case, have your line checked to be certain Nov 22 03:29:46 well Nov 22 03:29:48 i must go tho Nov 22 03:29:50 i probably wont do it Nov 22 03:29:55 have a nice night man Nov 22 03:30:01 gnite folks \o great to see you tad Nov 22 03:30:07 night lcuk Nov 22 03:30:08 great to see you too Nov 22 03:30:11 hope your enjoying your job Nov 22 03:30:14 see ya around Nov 22 03:30:18 nite Robot101 GeneralAntilles etc \o Nov 22 03:30:31 * GeneralAntilles throws paper wads at lcuk on his way out the door. Nov 22 03:30:41 im out too actually Nov 22 03:30:57 nice seeing yall again. if anyone has an extra n900 send it my way Nov 22 03:31:04 ill be around from time to time Nov 22 03:31:09 bye. Nov 22 03:31:38 ok, camping works Nov 22 03:32:11 That was my strategy. Nov 22 03:45:06 second PS3 crash in a few hours Nov 22 03:45:16 Woo Nov 22 03:46:07 btw, I think the last upgrade actually helped Nov 22 03:46:21 I got a full 2 days of very strong usage out of the N900 Nov 22 03:46:44 (roughly 8 hours of mp3, 3 hours of browsing, 1 hour of phone and email) Nov 22 03:50:23 playing mp3s is peanuts these days, with dsp and stuff Nov 22 03:50:42 dsp is not used for mp3 IIRC Nov 22 03:50:51 oh realy? that sucks... Nov 22 03:51:02 because the cost of keeping the DSP on (from a battery perspective) was higher than running it on the CPU Nov 22 03:51:28 that seems very counter intuitive Nov 22 03:51:43 maybe the dsp is just overkill in this case Nov 22 03:52:32 i mean, if the dsp would only be 1% utilized by decoding the mp3... Nov 22 03:54:24 why would they include such an overpowered DSP? Nov 22 03:55:14 h264 Nov 22 03:55:17 and friends Nov 22 03:55:56 Of course - the nice way to do it would be to power up the DSP, decode 10M of raw audio, and send it back to sleep. Nov 22 04:02:13 the dsp does h264? Nov 22 04:02:42 the dsp is just an alternate instruction set... Nov 22 04:02:47 you can run whatever decoder you write for it Nov 22 04:03:02 i'm just impressed i guess Nov 22 04:03:16 is that what the NEON thing is for? Nov 22 04:03:19 crashanddie: what are you talking about DSP on/off? it's not seperate from the CPU Nov 22 04:03:26 Flandry_: no, I think NEON is different Nov 22 04:03:31 NEON is extensions to normal ARM Nov 22 04:03:37 they are separate chips Nov 22 04:03:38 whereas the "DSP" is more like Jazelle and such Nov 22 04:03:49 Flandry_: they aren't on N8x0 at least... Nov 22 04:04:17 DSP on/off is very much different from CPU on/off Nov 22 04:04:31 i'm just going by the description of the OMAP chipset Nov 22 04:04:49 Flandry_: OMAP is a single chip Nov 22 04:04:56 talks about GPU, DSP and CPU like they are separate entities Nov 22 04:04:56 that's how ARM SoCs achieve such low power usage Nov 22 04:05:27 Flandry_: they're logically different Nov 22 04:05:54 like, you can have 3 partitions on a HD that are logically all different disks, but really only one disk Nov 22 04:05:58 but obviously they can be powered independently Nov 22 04:06:04 not exactly the same, since they're all the same type, but similar Nov 22 04:06:05 otherwise it would be pointless Nov 22 04:06:12 They _are_ powered independently. Nov 22 04:06:17 Flandry_: afaik the point of the DSP is merely marketting Nov 22 04:06:19 actually it's more like having a whole x86 motherboard etched into one chip Nov 22 04:06:21 luke-jr, they can . . . Nov 22 04:06:25 Heck, CPUs often have individual logical units powered independently. Nov 22 04:06:26 GAN900_: ? Nov 22 04:06:26 What derf said. Nov 22 04:07:11 NEON is SIMD Nov 22 04:07:15 ah Nov 22 04:07:18 Like SSE or AlitVec Nov 22 04:07:31 Except a heck of a lot better than SSE. Nov 22 04:07:40 does Gcc not target it by default? Nov 22 04:07:49 Right Nov 22 04:08:03 the DSP instruction set is not general-purpose AFAIK Nov 22 04:08:18 it might not fit within GCC's assumptions Nov 22 04:08:30 Flandy_, N900 uses the DSP for video stuff. Nov 22 04:09:23 Audio is ARM side since it's cheaper to power one thing than two. Nov 22 04:09:36 Pulse is probably a contributing factor there. Nov 22 04:10:48 the ARM core isn't powerful enough to decode h264... Nov 22 04:10:58 (real time) Nov 22 04:11:53 luke-jr: Yes it is. Nov 22 04:11:53 so what does it take to get gcc to use NEON instructions? Nov 22 04:11:58 No, it's pretty radically different from the type of CPUs gcc normally targets. Nov 22 04:12:30 gcc could probably be made to target it, but without significant work the code it generated would be ungodly slow. Nov 22 04:13:47 ali1234, yes it is. Nov 22 04:14:07 GAN900: ok, for a specific subset of h264 it is Nov 22 04:14:10 GAN900: Depends on the resolution. Nov 22 04:14:12 Depends on the size and you decoder, though Nov 22 04:14:14 And bitrate. Nov 22 04:14:23 Of course. Nov 22 04:14:36 You aren't doing 1080p on a 600 MHz ARM. Nov 22 04:14:42 Duh Nov 22 04:14:57 Of course, you aren't really doing that on a 430 MHz DSP, either. Nov 22 04:15:12 huh, that zoom2 demo is fake then? Nov 22 04:15:30 Anybody tried the NEON decoder on the N900 yet? Nov 22 04:15:51 "The" NEON decoder? Nov 22 04:18:20 Somebody in #beagle was working on something. Nov 22 04:29:49 I'm in the wrong industry Nov 22 04:30:03 Dumbass. Nov 22 04:30:12 Ubisoft scored $300M in the first 24 hours of the launch of Assassin's Creed 2 Nov 22 04:30:31 And some con artists managed to steal $9M in 30 minutes from RBS Nov 22 04:30:32 Oh, christ, this guy needs to fuck off. http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=385785#post385785 Nov 22 04:31:01 So respectively, they made as much as my company in 6 years and one quarter, excepted it's 24 hours and 30 minutes Nov 22 04:31:04 i've had him blocked for a month Nov 22 04:31:24 only time i've ever done that on a forum Nov 22 04:32:13 christaexport? Nov 22 04:32:17 The religious fanatic? Nov 22 04:32:48 Is this channel used for discussions of the N900, or does it have a separate IRC channel? Nov 22 04:33:11 KenYoung, any Maemo related discussions are welcome Nov 22 04:33:26 crashanddie, Thanks! Nov 22 04:44:40 morning all Nov 22 04:59:45 I wish we knew when phones would be readily available. I'm getting tempted to drive to chicago. Nov 22 04:59:55 from where? Nov 22 05:00:01 cleveland Nov 22 05:00:12 though, aren't they only available in chicago for people who had a preorder? Nov 22 05:00:17 krisse on another user rampage. Nov 22 05:00:31 hey GeneralAntilles. saw your post on deals.woot.com :) Nov 22 05:00:55 apparently they filled a few orders made only a day or two before the pickup Nov 22 05:01:05 huh Nov 22 05:01:05 johnx, I was sad to see the DROID way up on the popularity list. Nov 22 05:01:59 eh, it's not a *bad* phone really, but the n900 is better even when comparing just the hardware Nov 22 05:02:21 Android's more evil than the iPhone in my efes. Nov 22 05:02:25 s/efes/eyes/ Nov 22 05:02:26 GeneralAntilles meant: Android's more evil than the iPhone in my eyes. Nov 22 05:02:43 wow. might want to get that iphone pulled out of your eye ... O_o Nov 22 05:02:44 Depends on what you want. The droid fits on a picket easier, and I wouldn't miss the tv-out. Nov 22 05:02:53 so anyways, I've been fighting deals.woot.com's rss feed, trying to get yahoo pipes to eat it so I can run some serious filtering Nov 22 05:03:09 LurkerXXX__, have you compared the keyboards to each other? Nov 22 05:03:10 johnx, I loved the invite email. Nov 22 05:03:21 I love woot's writing in general Nov 22 05:03:23 johnx: yeah, I hate the droid keyboard. no feel. Nov 22 05:03:43 but the capacitive vs resistive screen is nice. It's all trade-offs. Nov 22 05:03:58 yeah. how's the droid's camera? Nov 22 05:04:06 Now if I could get a droid phone running maemo, that might be nice. Nov 22 05:04:19 ok, its slow. Nov 22 05:04:21 LurkerXXX__, not likely. Nov 22 05:04:38 but I haven't seen how fast the N900's is, cause I can't get my hands on one. Nov 22 05:04:50 GeneralAntilles, I wouldn't rule it out entirely. if we get more disenfranchised android owners, it might happen Nov 22 05:05:44 I can't believe christexaport's arrogance. Nov 22 05:05:58 you must be new to the internet Nov 22 05:06:03 lol Nov 22 05:06:06 GeneralAntilles: they have pretty similar hardware. I wonder how difficult it would be for those in the know. Nov 22 05:06:08 He sounds like a telecommunications company PR person talking about municipal internet access. Nov 22 05:06:14 just block him and be done with it Nov 22 05:06:28 ah, a new topic Nov 22 05:06:35 is he for or against municipal wifi? Nov 22 05:06:50 (though if he's against I probably fall out on the same side as him for different reasons) Nov 22 05:07:00 "Oh man, here's this thread with a proposal that could really help a lot of people stay in touch with what's going on in Maemo, I'm just going to take a giant dump on it then go to bed." Nov 22 05:07:04 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=385785#post385785 Nov 22 05:07:26 johnx, I'm again municipal WiFi, but not for the reasons the telecommunications companies usually quote. ;) Nov 22 05:08:16 * GeneralAntilles sighs. Nov 22 05:08:21 I really need to block Talk at the router. Nov 22 05:08:40 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=385818#post385818 Shit like that is just energy-killing. Nov 22 05:08:44 wow. that's fantastically arrogant. :D that should go over real well Nov 22 05:10:28 GeneralAntilles, a little diplomacy might help ... :/ Nov 22 05:10:47 i recommend the six-shooter Nov 22 05:10:54 johnx, it never works. Nov 22 05:11:29 johnx, I've tried that approach many times in the past and usually people like geneven just end up coming out of the woodwork to stick knives in your kidneys. Nov 22 05:11:32 Not worth my time, certainly. Nov 22 05:12:10 yeah, but when whackjobs come out of nowhere to cut you down when you've been really diplomatic, it makes *them* look like idiots Nov 22 05:13:36 talk needs a finer filter for new posts Nov 22 05:13:45 johnx, sadly, lots of the people on Talk really dig that sort of stuff. Nov 22 05:13:45 for the side bar? Nov 22 05:13:49 yeah Nov 22 05:14:05 i don't care about the million different threads in sales Nov 22 05:14:23 yeah, I think it shouldn't pull from off-topic or threads that have 1) more than N votes -and- 2) a score below M Nov 22 05:14:39 yeah, skipping sales might be nice as well Nov 22 05:14:42 ha yeah Nov 22 05:15:35 GeneralAntilles, just remember, that you don't always need to be the one setting the record straight. sometimes it's ok just to let the drunks have a good old fashioned barfight, then take their wallets when they're unconscious and what were we talking about? Nov 22 05:16:29 johnx, yeah, I moved on to that a few months ago, but it's still disheartening to read posts like that (even when you're not participating). Nov 22 05:16:56 for sure, which is the other feature I want on talk: "permanently ignore thread" Nov 22 05:17:37 they should just give General superr mod powers and discretion to delete and ban at will Nov 22 05:17:41 that would shake things up Nov 22 05:17:55 sometimes reading talk is like watching the nightly fox news: death, starvation, what are the celebrities doing today? and sports Nov 22 05:19:46 Flandry, I've turned that down already. Nov 22 05:23:01 pity Nov 22 05:23:20 seriously Nov 22 05:24:03 GeneralAntilles, ah c'mon. We could call it the 'great cleansing' and have people sacrifice goats and everything. it'd be fun Nov 22 05:24:23 johnx, yeah, kill the Talk datacenter with fire. Nov 22 05:24:50 jeez, work with me on terminology here: 'the purifying flame' Nov 22 05:26:20 Cower before me! I shall bring down the flaming wrath of the Cabal and cleanse this stinking cesspool of noobishness henceforth! Nov 22 05:26:40 getting into the spirit at least Nov 22 05:26:59 make sure you get sign-off from marketing and PR before making any statements. kthx :) Nov 22 05:27:06 His Lordship and Imperial Highness Emperor Field Marshal Antilles hath spoken! Nov 22 05:28:29 I guess you got a promotion? Nov 22 05:28:44 Maemo Summit 2008 Nov 22 05:28:48 I blame timsamoff. Nov 22 05:42:39 anyone else in the puget sound area? Nov 22 05:44:05 looks like there's an N900 meetup in redmond, right on the microsoft campus on tuesday (yeah I know, if this was a movie it'd totally be some kind of trap...) Nov 22 05:44:19 It's a trap! Nov 22 05:44:36 You're going to capture everybody and turn them into WinMob fans. Nov 22 05:44:43 yeah, that's why I'm trying to find someone else who is going to watch my back... Nov 22 05:44:45 how dare he Nov 22 05:44:47 You guys are going to be on Microsoft commercials! O_o Nov 22 05:44:54 is there an op here to minimize the damage? Nov 22 05:46:26 eh, at least I can appease them by saying how much I like microsoft hardware Nov 22 05:47:03 Wont save you Nov 22 05:48:02 well, if I'm going down, I'm taking them with me :> Nov 22 05:48:20 the guy has an HD2 to show off as well Nov 22 05:48:38 anyone know any zero-day exploits against winmo? <_< Nov 22 05:48:57 lol Nov 22 05:52:16 seriously though. it should be a lot of fun. I think I should setup a lightweight http server to run off my N900 and serve pages over t-mo's 3G Nov 22 06:00:59 jeez. omweather just keeps getting better and better Nov 22 06:30:01 johnx, but will t-mo give you a non-nat interface? Nov 22 06:30:06 or better yet, static ip? Nov 22 06:30:09 nope Nov 22 06:30:13 not for $10/month Nov 22 06:30:20 I'll do ssh reverse tunneling I think Nov 22 06:30:29 (my phone has a static ip with no ports blocked/filtered) Nov 22 06:30:31 morning folks Nov 22 06:30:43 auenf, that's incredible. which carrier/plan? Nov 22 06:30:47 mornin' jaem Nov 22 06:30:57 auenf, indeed Nov 22 06:30:57 australia Nov 22 06:30:59 wow Nov 22 06:31:01 that's amazing Nov 22 06:31:21 its a mobile broadband sim with voice calling enabled Nov 22 06:31:31 and get a free voip DID with it Nov 22 06:31:43 wow Nov 22 06:31:44 http://www.exetel.com.au/residential-hspa-pricing.php Nov 22 06:31:52 WM A or WM B Nov 22 06:32:09 no MMS tho Nov 22 06:32:24 want my damn device. Nov 22 06:32:55 that's not a bad deal really Nov 22 06:32:57 (re-sold thru optus, and cause its a wireless broadband service, it doesnt have access to the special access point to connect to the MMS server, so if i get a MMS, i get this: http://sc.nitroware.net/i/brokenMMS.png ) Nov 22 06:33:11 http://imagebin.ca/img/64z9xm.png :) Nov 22 06:33:34 I think mine's $10/month, but if they figure out which phone I'm really using it with they might make me move to a higher plan Nov 22 06:34:12 johnx, what if I work for your carrier? O_o Nov 22 06:34:19 ...I don't, for the record Nov 22 06:37:36 jaem, I'm not too worried Nov 22 06:37:41 :P Nov 22 06:37:44 i'm not violating tos I think Nov 22 06:38:01 aww... Kopete's Pipes plugin doesn't work with CowSay :( Nov 22 06:38:21 does anyone here use the most recent SDK VM? Nov 22 06:47:38 wow, was that a split? Nov 22 06:47:50 yes Nov 22 06:48:03 holoy crap Nov 22 06:48:07 sorry... probably shouldn't do that :S Nov 22 06:49:04 been so long Nov 22 06:49:09 i missed irc Nov 22 07:20:24 Just listening to devorak pointing out that Nokia should have gone with android. Nov 22 07:20:50 heh. didn't he go away yet? Nov 22 07:21:20 He was supportive of Nokia Nov 22 07:22:15 But I have to agree maemo vs android is betamax ve vhs Nov 22 07:22:38 ?! Nov 22 07:23:10 give me a real Linux distro over some crazy Java stack any day Nov 22 07:23:11 Why doesnt Nokia make n900 rum android apps? Nov 22 07:23:18 besides, Google owns enough of my life as it is Nov 22 07:23:25 sgbirch, it's not quite that simple Nov 22 07:23:43 sgbirch, should be possible, but it wouldn't run them as well as a native android device Nov 22 07:23:52 still might be doable if you needed that one killer app Nov 22 07:23:57 sgbirch, Android has the Linux kernel, yes, but it's not "Linux" in the conventional (misused) sense Nov 22 07:24:22 I'd much rather be able to hack on C++ in a terminal on my phone Nov 22 07:24:28 :) Nov 22 07:24:56 But since it is the linux kernel ... Nov 22 07:25:17 sgbirch, this will give you some background on what's required: http://mjfrey.blogspot.com/ Nov 22 07:25:20 Seems like it wouldnt be too difficult Nov 22 07:25:43 it's not exactly trivial, but it should be doable Nov 22 07:27:05 "It turns out that Android uses it own version of libc and all binaries get linked against that. This causes a problem when a libc already exists on your system." Nov 22 07:27:07 wat? Nov 22 07:27:22 yeah Nov 22 07:27:27 It would really help see the n900 Nov 22 07:27:31 Sell Nov 22 07:27:37 that is completely untrue Nov 22 07:27:50 doesn't it use uClibc? Nov 22 07:27:52 maybe, but what does android have in terms of apps that we don't? Nov 22 07:27:59 android uses uclibc and guess what - it can easily coexist with glibc Nov 22 07:28:19 Market acceptance Nov 22 07:28:47 Especially in US where nokia isnt well known Nov 22 07:30:32 sgbirch, maybe, but Android apps probably wouldn't integrate well Nov 22 07:31:04 and intentions aside, it might end up looking (on the face of it) like Nokia is saying "we can't do this properly ourselves, so we're doing it improperly with someone else's stuff" Nov 22 07:31:10 I'm not saying it's bad Nov 22 07:31:11 sooo, you think it would be a good idea for them to spend lots of man-months on half-assed android-app coexistence? Nov 22 07:31:15 N900 is powerful enough to run android in a chroot Nov 22 07:31:16 but just that it would probably look bad on their part Nov 22 07:31:26 and wouldn't be worth the effort, as johnx said Nov 22 07:31:53 sgbirch, not as fast as the droid can run android apps, and it's (by various accounts) the first android phone to not be terribly sluggish Nov 22 07:31:58 I could see there being a port of it at some point, but it won't be official Nov 22 07:31:59 which ARM toolchain does the N900 use? -arm7? Nov 22 07:32:03 I think it would be a good community initiative. Like wine Nov 22 07:32:16 sgbirch, granted, but it will probably stay like wine Nov 22 07:32:17 johnx: it's the first android phone to use better than an ARM11 CPU Nov 22 07:32:20 sgbirch, yup, so you better get working on it :) Nov 22 07:32:25 I don't hink Nokia cares/wants to do that Nov 22 07:32:48 the droid is nice Nov 22 07:33:02 wine is pretty awful - nothing works well in it except popular games (ie source engine) Nov 22 07:33:05 Johnx: i may do just that Nov 22 07:33:56 and they've been working on it for 15 years Nov 22 07:34:21 You missed the point about wine, it was an example of a user iniative. Nov 22 07:35:06 An android port would be much easier than wine Nov 22 07:35:20 a community effort ... for nokia marketing reasons? Nov 22 07:35:39 well wine isn't awful. its better than nothing Nov 22 07:35:51 most of the android stuff is reimplentations of stuff available on other platforms except for a couple real gems Nov 22 07:35:57 sgbirch, ali1234, what's even crazier (albeit cool) is the LUK project Nov 22 07:35:57 but it's worse than running windows in virtualbox for almost everything Nov 22 07:35:57 No ... The itch we scratch is access to android appa Nov 22 07:36:01 it's like Wine for the kernel Nov 22 07:36:05 O_o Nov 22 07:36:05 Apps Nov 22 07:36:48 seems easier/more productive to just do native maemo "ports" ... Nov 22 07:37:27 yeah. surely if you wanted to actually get access to a large number of apps, you should make a iphone compatibility layer? Nov 22 07:37:28 though the reality is the best answer is usually in the grey area: just like a fair number of things are based on libwine Nov 22 07:38:18 Iphone is closed source .. Much more difficult Nov 22 07:39:03 there's an objective-c iphone-like layer for maemo already Nov 22 07:39:08 Anyone know how to turn off the auto uppercase feature of the n810. Hate it Nov 22 07:39:15 davlik without all the low-level kernel hacks might be a lot more reasonable Nov 22 07:40:00 ie, require some small source modification to the apps Nov 22 07:40:56 sgbirch, same - it's in Settings Nov 22 07:40:59 under Text Settings Nov 22 08:03:50 is lcuk awake by any chance? Nov 22 08:13:07 Morning, all Nov 22 08:13:54 mornin' Jaffa Nov 22 08:13:54 * Jaffa sees christaexport's reply to his Maemo Weekly News proposal and finds the irony hilarious Nov 22 08:14:37 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=385558 FWIW Nov 22 08:14:56 yeah, that was pretty fantastic Nov 22 08:34:15 Jaffa: ROFL Nov 22 08:36:35 Jaffa: isnt he a symbionite anyways? Nov 22 08:36:56 Jaffa: and morning ;) Nov 22 08:48:44 Xisdibik: Ah, no; now he's an expert on all things Maemo *cough* Nov 22 08:49:03 lol Nov 22 08:50:22 Who gives a shit what he thinks? The sad thing is, you're not going to get any volunteers because - in true Talk style - this thread is now going to turn into a war and people will forget what post #1 said Nov 22 08:51:00 qwerty12, s/talk/forum/ <- fixed it for ya Nov 22 08:51:34 johnx: Sorry, but recently, Talk has become the worst of the worst Nov 22 08:51:54 qwerty12: you're accusing forums of having redeeming value? Nov 22 08:52:01 I think the trick might be small doses or something Nov 22 08:53:07 of some drug? Nov 22 08:53:14 I keep thinking about things like splitting the forum into hacker and new-user or something, but I don't see any way that wouldn't turn the non-hacker forum into a slum Nov 22 08:53:23 timeless_mbp, of talk.m.o Nov 22 08:53:52 yeah, but does it take a drug (like a muscle relaxant) to enable you to tolerate it? Nov 22 08:55:58 nah, just a certain masochistic tendency Nov 22 08:59:37 id volunteer if i had any idea how to do it :D Nov 22 08:59:57 id fall into that "new user" non hacker group tho Nov 22 09:00:01 the ones that are slummin ;) Nov 22 09:02:03 the problem is that there is a small number of vocal people who don't search and have a feeling of entitlement Nov 22 09:03:08 yello Nov 22 09:03:11 allo Nov 22 09:04:28 hi Nov 22 09:04:34 you're not allowed to post a second time if someone flags your post as something easily found in search, until you reply to your own post with the answer Nov 22 09:06:06 I have mixed feelings about trying to solve social problems with technical solutions Nov 22 09:06:06 mavhc, I almost like it, but it would annoy the heck out of a lot of people Nov 22 09:06:11 and then they'd just flame their own thread Nov 22 09:06:19 johnx, I know... that's kind of the issue Nov 22 09:06:50 the real life analog is the cocktail party thought, right? Nov 22 09:07:05 * Xisdibik has mixed feelings about feelings ;) Nov 22 09:07:12 the imminent inrush of noobs on a forum is always scary, and most technological limits alienate people through unusability or anger Nov 22 09:07:20 you'd have to distinguish between those who can't search and those who won't search Nov 22 09:07:21 at some point the signal/noise drops below a usable threshold and some smallish group of like-minded people go outside to discuss whatever they were talking about Nov 22 09:07:33 johnx, yeah... and that's sad when it happens Nov 22 09:07:58 what you need is a constant flow of ex newbs helping out the new newbs Nov 22 09:08:20 jaem: i'm going to try to post an updated deb sometime today Nov 22 09:08:22 got time to play w/ it? Nov 22 09:08:23 mavhc, right, and that's my biggest reason for not really entertaining the thought of splitting Nov 22 09:08:49 you need the people who haven't answered the same question 100 times to answer that question Nov 22 09:09:06 yup Nov 22 09:09:07 timeless_mbp, possibly Nov 22 09:09:16 tomorrow's a bit tight, but I'll try to take a look Nov 22 09:09:27 having a bit of a code sprint with a friend Nov 22 09:09:31 mavhc, or you need to pay people to answer the same question a million times Nov 22 09:09:39 timeless_mbp, we have two weeks or so to deliver this project Nov 22 09:09:40 >_< Nov 22 09:09:42 not enough time Nov 22 09:09:49 and everybody's miscommunicating Nov 22 09:10:05 I think we all are in agreement, but everyone misunderstands everyone else and thinks we're not Nov 22 09:10:09 ooh, you could be in finland Nov 22 09:10:22 timeless_mbp, oh? Nov 22 09:10:24 that bad? Nov 22 09:10:25 :P Nov 22 09:10:31 standard operating procedure Nov 22 09:10:35 rofl Nov 22 09:10:40 ask everyone to summerise the current state of play Nov 22 09:10:55 s/summerise/summarize/ Nov 22 09:11:01 johnx, I wonder how well a hybrid chat/forum model would work Nov 22 09:11:12 making things like summer is like handing out rose-colored glasses Nov 22 09:11:26 something where you could have publicly viewable discussions, with comments, but the actual dicussion is limited to invited users Nov 22 09:11:32 more like IM/blog/forum mashup Nov 22 09:11:39 Xisdibik: If you read large swathes of tmo, and can distinguish something new & intefresting over something trollish/old; you're perfect Nov 22 09:11:44 so if I think your comment is valuable, I invite you into the discussion Nov 22 09:11:49 if not, then I can just ignore it Nov 22 09:11:54 jaem. IBM had an old o,protoype thing like that Nov 22 09:11:55 and the discussion itself stays clean Nov 22 09:12:00 yeah that sounds great, it really won't exclude people even more than the current system Nov 22 09:12:10 jaem, that sounds a little too ... stilted? kind of awkward Nov 22 09:12:17 jaem: and I suppose that'*s kinda what Google Wave is. Nov 22 09:12:23 (bloody N900 kb) Nov 22 09:12:31 Jaffa: id probably hit that 50% of the time, but i could learn with practice, i dont swathe through large amounts of tmo. that might change once i have my n900 though :D Nov 22 09:12:38 well, it might be once they have better permissions Nov 22 09:12:47 Xisdibik: Read most of IRC? Nov 22 09:13:19 Jaffa, that's actually kind of what I was thinking of, only with public comments Nov 22 09:13:21 I have it open alot, im not actively reading each line, but if im using my laptop i try to catch most of what people say Nov 22 09:13:32 the comments could be voted up or down, and optionally be hidden Nov 22 09:13:41 but the difference is that everyone could view the discussion Nov 22 09:13:44 and have their say Nov 22 09:13:44 There're some old hands like qwerty12 who read a *lot* of tmo and IRC and would perfect contributors. Nov 22 09:14:00 but they could only directly contribute if they had something valuable to say Nov 22 09:14:39 e.g. allow the noise, but separate it from the signal Nov 22 09:14:41 jaem: How would that be decided? Previous history? (if so, how did they get that history ;-)) Nov 22 09:14:51 that sounds like a recipe for favoritism... Nov 22 09:14:54 invitation from someone in the discussion Nov 22 09:14:56 johnx, it does Nov 22 09:15:01 I was just throwing it out there Nov 22 09:15:07 vote up/down Nov 22 09:15:08 it has all sorts of problems Nov 22 09:15:14 mavhc, yes, with mods Nov 22 09:15:17 but it's an interesting idea Nov 22 09:15:18 in terms of managing 500+ post discussions, slashdot is a good model Nov 22 09:15:18 then, i volunteer qwerty12 for the job ;) Nov 22 09:15:34 slashdot is ahead of the curve with moderation, because they've been at it longer Nov 22 09:16:03 jaem: interesting idea indeed Nov 22 09:16:09 Jaffa, once you had a history, maybe, but initially you'd be "promoted" from the comment thread by votes/mods/current members of the discussion Nov 22 09:16:15 yup, they've been handling those 500+ post, various-intelligence level, no-two-people-who-know-each-other situations very well Nov 22 09:16:16 seems like every discussion system starts with "everyone can post", then "ops block users", then "vote up/down", then... Nov 22 09:16:28 mavhc, yeah Nov 22 09:16:32 and there is no perfect solution Nov 22 09:16:44 has anyone seen an actual implementation of what I'm proposing? Nov 22 09:17:09 It sounds, in practicality, a lot like Slashdot Nov 22 09:17:19 yep Nov 22 09:17:24 but you're recognising the person, not the post Nov 22 09:17:26 Jaffa, hmm... except that there's no main thread Nov 22 09:17:29 everything in forums evolves to be like slashdot Nov 22 09:17:41 you want to +v people statically Nov 22 09:17:45 Signal separated from noise by mods, getting consistenly promoted gets you karma which raises your default post level Nov 22 09:17:54 I'm thinking of separating the signal from the noise, but allowing the noise - so that people can flame, but you don't have to see it Nov 22 09:17:59 mavhc: /.'s karma does that Nov 22 09:18:00 timeless_mbp, that's becuase slashdot is really a moderated mailing list with a web front-end Nov 22 09:18:09 and the people who aren't flaming aren't going to invite flamers in to the conversation Nov 22 09:18:23 Jaffa: so it's a combination of both? Nov 22 09:18:46 6 months ago I would have said we don't have the numbers to do /. style meta-moderation, but I'm beginning to change my mind :) Nov 22 09:18:47 Of course, /. has a limited number of new threads each day. Nov 22 09:19:03 Jaffa, they also have firehose now Nov 22 09:19:24 johnx: we might not need M2 yet, but straight "crowd-sourced" moderation may be practicable Nov 22 09:19:37 johnx: true, I've looked at it once I think Nov 22 09:20:19 but in general it's more of a "interesting comments" system than a "support forum" Nov 22 09:20:20 and for gods' sake: real threads Nov 22 09:20:40 johnx, yeah Nov 22 09:20:43 mavhc, but it handles the situation that eventually topics will diverge, and this isn't necessarily bad Nov 22 09:20:51 * RST38h moos Nov 22 09:20:51 comments vs threads is a distinction I'd like to make Nov 22 09:20:58 but at the same time it's nice to be able to ignore the people who are talking about something different Nov 22 09:21:02 So, gentlemen, what is the topic of the day? =) Nov 22 09:21:07 RST38h, comments Nov 22 09:21:13 tmo? Nov 22 09:21:15 RST38h, and threads Nov 22 09:21:16 yes Nov 22 09:21:17 spam Nov 22 09:21:25 and eggs Nov 22 09:21:26 You know what I want... Nov 22 09:21:27 without threads and the ability to ignore sub threads, and basically be usenet, you can't cope Nov 22 09:21:34 A generalized filter interface, with a bunch of obscure stuff Nov 22 09:21:50 heh. this solves it: make the turing test a quiz on maemo :) Nov 22 09:21:52 usenet with karma Nov 22 09:21:53 But among this stuff, I owould like ot have "filter by user's account age" ;))) Nov 22 09:22:12 i'd like that too, but i'd probably use it the opposite way you do Nov 22 09:22:34 If you hide it among other filtering options, it is less likely to raise segregation alarms among some issues-waving people Nov 22 09:22:37 all forum software should be a web frontend to an nntp system Nov 22 09:22:55 ali1234: It is fine, as long as we are both satisfied :) Nov 22 09:23:05 mavhc: Why not move to google groups then? Nov 22 09:23:44 johnx: Somebody already proposed requiring a valid tablet MAC address for some forums =) Nov 22 09:24:38 RST38h: That's fucking brilliant, but make it an IMEI number, instead Nov 22 09:24:41 heh Nov 22 09:25:37 also: we *shouldn't* check for duplicated MACs. anyone who went to the trouble of tracking down an Nxx0 MAC address "passes the test" Nov 22 09:25:54 that'll work for about 10 mins Nov 22 09:27:02 qwerty: This will limit access to people with N900s. Don't wanna do that Nov 22 09:27:17 actually, I think we should take a page from google and their captcha system Nov 22 09:27:20 it's an interesting dilemma that you have Nov 22 09:27:43 when somebody asks for an advanced feature the response is "we can't do that, think of the USERS" Nov 22 09:27:55 RST38h: Well, to the N900 fora then. That's where a lot of the idiots can be found Nov 22 09:27:58 but the users are the one set of people you're not actually interested in listening to Nov 22 09:28:12 johnx: I have seen a math forum that required computing an integral to join Nov 22 09:28:27 and i quote "We don't want 95% of users to report bugs. Most of them are woefully under-qualified to do so" Nov 22 09:28:34 ali1234: you are missing the point Nov 22 09:28:42 ali1234: like, totally, man =) Nov 22 09:28:43 ali1234: where's that from? Nov 22 09:28:58 timeless_mbp, GeneralAntilles :) Nov 22 09:29:03 timeless_mbp: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=385818&postcount=43 Nov 22 09:29:34 gan++ Nov 22 09:29:35 First of all, someone without a tablet (n8x0, n900, etc) is NOT a tablet user. Nov 22 09:30:06 Secondly, someone who only writes to forums but never really reads them is of no interest to other forum members Nov 22 09:31:36 moo wazd Nov 22 09:31:55 there are plenty of people with 4 digit post counts who don't seem to actually read what other people write Nov 22 09:32:08 Exactly Nov 22 09:33:09 the problem is that a lot of them are supposed pillars of the community Nov 22 09:33:27 ali1234: do i know them? Nov 22 09:34:34 ali1234: can I have a list? =) Nov 22 09:34:36 i have to wonder, if the forums are so bad, why do you all spend so much time on them? Nov 22 09:34:54 maybe you should accept them for what they are, and move on Nov 22 09:34:57 ali1234: i don't spend any time on them Nov 22 09:35:03 i don't even know where they are :) Nov 22 09:35:05 actually, a lot of us do not Nov 22 09:35:10 Not any more, anyway Nov 22 09:35:19 RST38h: some of us are slow learners Nov 22 09:37:14 RST38h's point is valid. I skimmed /some/ threads yesterday for the first time in (literally) weeks. Nov 22 09:38:51 Xisdibik, Jaffa: Posted my propsal to join. Hopefully, others will follow suit and not engage in the silly (and pointless, as it is going to happen, anyway) discussion Nov 22 09:39:02 BTW, anyone know which blog christaexport is involved in? Nov 22 09:39:09 qwerty12: Ta muchly :) Nov 22 09:39:15 Jaffa: maemo-freak, I believe Nov 22 09:39:29 yea think what thats right Nov 22 09:39:41 URL? Nov 22 09:39:49 i remember him talking about symbian-freak and the maemo alternative coming out or that was out Nov 22 09:39:50 www.maemo-freak.com probably Nov 22 09:40:01 which looks a bit amateurish Nov 22 09:40:04 think that was stolen by another company Nov 22 09:40:07 it's linked on his sig Nov 22 09:40:10 they had to use another Nov 22 09:40:19 RST38h: heya Nov 22 09:40:22 heya all Nov 22 09:40:22 guess not Nov 22 09:40:24 its in his link Nov 22 09:40:33 heya wazd Nov 22 09:40:59 Hiya, wazd Nov 22 09:41:05 Does Maemo-Freak.com even want to load for anyone? Nov 22 09:41:38 Ah, there it is Nov 22 09:42:09 Xisdibik: ta, when I'm at a computer I'll compare the brevity, frequent, breadth I'm proposing with the infrequent, in-depth, narrow articles most blogs write Nov 22 09:44:04 * jaem is heading offline, and then to bed at some point Nov 22 09:44:17 timeless_mbp, send me a PM when you post the package, pleas Nov 22 09:44:21 jaem: g'night! Nov 22 09:44:29 * timeless_mbp nods Nov 22 09:44:33 I'll still be around, but if I leave #maemo open, I'll be up all night :P Nov 22 09:44:35 cheers Nov 22 09:45:41 Jaffa: :) oki dokey Nov 22 11:16:20 huh, I seem to have a weird tendency to "end" threads Nov 22 11:16:33 or maybe I'm just replying to threads that have already run their course? Nov 22 11:16:38 johnx, a thread killer are u? Nov 22 11:16:45 johnx: It's just you :p Nov 22 11:17:03 swc|666, johnx, destroyer of threads. has a certain ring ... Nov 22 11:17:11 johnx, no worries, i seem to have that effect on bottles of beer Nov 22 11:17:19 qwerty12, well, just as long as it wasn't just me responding late Nov 22 11:18:33 :) Nov 22 11:26:48 hi guys Nov 22 11:26:54 allo Dantonic Nov 22 11:27:03 hey johnx do you use vnc? Nov 22 11:27:12 very occasionally Nov 22 11:27:21 what OS do you run? Nov 22 11:27:45 trying to figure out how to configure the server on my desktop... so I can view it on the NIT Nov 22 11:27:50 on ubuntu 9.04 Nov 22 11:28:04 x11vnc --shared --forever Nov 22 11:28:10 don't remember if it's -- or just - Nov 22 11:28:32 wait huh? what does that mean? --shared --forever Nov 22 11:28:34 is that a command? Nov 22 11:28:55 just run exactly what I typed Nov 22 11:29:03 if you want to know more: man x11vnc Nov 22 11:29:10 gotta install x11vnc first no? Nov 22 11:29:43 been trying to use "Vino" Nov 22 11:29:51 the remote desktop that comes with ubuntu Nov 22 11:30:07 what a headache... had it working locally but couldn't get it to work through the internet Nov 22 11:30:13 now it just stopped working all together Nov 22 11:30:16 I'll try x11vnc Nov 22 11:31:04 ok so I started vnc like you said... Nov 22 11:31:09 without password johnx ? Nov 22 11:31:17 I guess I can set that Nov 22 11:31:35 set it if you want Nov 22 11:31:40 I suggest not setting it for the test Nov 22 11:32:05 so now in vnc viewer how do I access it? Nov 22 11:32:08 just the local ip? Nov 22 11:32:22 I"d like to figure out how to access it locally and remotely Nov 22 11:32:44 I'm going to aim at submitting a package as day into extras until I've finished doing all of mine. Nov 22 11:34:01 Tough I'm pushing two into testing now. Nov 22 11:34:04 ~though Nov 22 11:35:36 johnx, sorry how do I access the remote desktop? Nov 22 11:35:44 the ip is not working Nov 22 11:36:02 what app are you using on your tablet? Nov 22 11:36:45 multicast dns ftw :P Nov 22 11:36:55 vnc viewer Nov 22 11:37:15 do you need to specify the 'screen' number? might be 0 Nov 22 11:37:30 might need to put it after the ip address like 192.168.1.254:0 Nov 22 11:38:12 could not connect... Nov 22 11:38:18 I think I did somethign to the tablet earlier Nov 22 11:38:25 maybe entered a command I shouldn't have Nov 22 11:39:30 I entered a ssh -L 5900:user:5900 host@ip Nov 22 11:39:34 not sure what that did Nov 22 11:39:35 * SpeedEvil checks email for the first time today, and finds a shipping invoice! (For a $2000 plasma TV that I diddn't order, that is addressed to a fictitious individual.) Oh well. Nov 22 11:39:47 ouch SpeedEvil Nov 22 11:40:08 Dantonic, is that ssh still running? Nov 22 11:40:31 ew idk I'm rebooting right now Nov 22 11:40:51 I closed the terminal Nov 22 11:41:12 question when I close the terminal for x11vnc it closes the server connection? Nov 22 11:41:18 yes Nov 22 11:41:21 ok Nov 22 11:41:26 * alterego hopes someone has packages screen up for maemo5 Nov 22 11:41:34 ~packaged Nov 22 11:41:48 hi Nov 22 11:42:10 Yes, yes they have :) Nice Nov 22 11:42:41 so many people in this room Nov 22 11:43:23 yeah, big community :P Nov 22 11:43:23 nice to meet you alterego Nov 22 11:43:27 So, screen + VPN on the tablet .. Nov 22 11:43:54 allo peter-k. what brings you here? Nov 22 11:44:14 bah nothing... Nov 22 11:44:15 what do you mean alterego? Nov 22 11:44:39 i have nothing to do now so i am here johnx Nov 22 11:44:42 I'm just coming up with some ideas. Nov 22 11:44:52 Whilst packaging up some apps. Nov 22 11:45:45 anyone run ubuntu? Nov 22 11:45:53 running 9.10? how is it any problems? Nov 22 11:46:12 I'm not having any problems with ubuntu 9.10 amd64 Nov 22 11:46:26 Dantonic, no problems here. have it on like 4 machines or so Nov 22 11:46:37 cool I have 9.04 on an amd64... and its a shitfest Nov 22 11:46:51 Yeah, I've got it on 4 hardware machines and in a few VM's. :P Nov 22 11:46:58 Get a real Intel ;) Nov 22 11:47:01 I might just upgrade Nov 22 11:47:08 Heh Nov 22 11:48:05 works here on my a64 3000+ but then again, 9.04 worked too Nov 22 11:48:14 only problem I had was my craptastic pci wifi card Nov 22 11:48:50 People reported some weird problems with AMDs over the last year Nov 22 11:49:01 What exactly is the problem with SDK not running on AMDs? Nov 22 11:49:08 Bad QEmu? Nov 22 11:49:49 Well,I'm not running it on an AMD. Nov 22 11:49:56 Core2Duo here. Nov 22 11:49:57 let me do a quick backup Nov 22 11:51:44 I wish maemo sb would use a newer qemu....like one that worked Nov 22 11:51:45 Enabling no-execute feature should probably break QEmu... Nov 22 11:51:56 johnx: there is a working quemu? :) Nov 22 11:52:12 RST38h, I'm chrooted into an arm ubuntu install doing mer work Nov 22 11:52:25 On a real ARM? =) Nov 22 11:52:38 heh Nov 22 11:52:44 Or transparent QEmu ARM? Nov 22 11:53:09 transparent. the files in the chroot are armel ELFs. the host machine is my athlon 64 Nov 22 11:53:24 Aha, so it works after all Nov 22 11:53:29 yeah, works just fine Nov 22 11:53:50 Well, NX stuff is optional anyway, so either it is turned off or QEmu somehow routes around it Nov 22 11:54:51 it acts as an interpreter, same way python or sh would Nov 22 11:55:52 Tthe "products" sesction in a users' karma oesn't take into account extras? Nov 22 11:56:08 johnx: QEmu is supposed to be a binary translator Nov 22 11:56:20 hmm I read there's a possible bug with the upgrade Nov 22 11:56:23 alterego: Only takes into account proper Extras, no -Testing Nov 22 11:56:43 upgrade brakes graphic drivers and x, preventing login or startx Nov 22 11:56:48 johnx: I.e. it generates x86 code and then jumps to it, something NX explicitely prevents Nov 22 11:56:48 RST38h: Ah, good, cheers :) Nov 22 11:56:53 I'm gonna burn it to disk just in case Nov 22 11:57:01 so i can re-install if I have to Nov 22 11:57:29 Dantonic, which graphics card do you have? Nov 22 11:57:57 Nvidia 7600GT Nov 22 11:58:08 didn't break my 6600 Nov 22 11:58:14 or rather my install Nov 22 11:58:19 Nvidia...mhm. Nov 22 11:58:31 well I'll burn it to disk just in case Nov 22 11:58:34 dling the image Nov 22 11:58:35 RST38h, the only sane choice for video on linux :) Nov 22 11:58:42 Go try IGD... Nov 22 11:58:52 * RST38h never had a decent video card in his computers Nov 22 11:58:54 Didn't break my 7600GT :) Nov 22 11:59:19 RST38h, igd? Nov 22 11:59:42 man... Nov 22 11:59:42 Intel Graphics Device Nov 22 11:59:44 Well, if you want performance graphics, the intel cheapo chipsets aren't too bad, I've got a desktop workstation that has an integrated intel and works great for that machine. Nov 22 12:00:11 A summary name for all those display adapters Intel ships for tiny laptops Nov 22 12:00:12 I much prefer nVideia, though, for performance :) Nov 22 12:00:40 so does an upgrade change everything... does it replace all configuration files? or it leaves old settings behind? Nov 22 12:01:05 Dantonic, everything stays the same. if you changed some file in /etc and it wants to replace it, it will ask you first Nov 22 12:01:15 ah ok Nov 22 12:01:19 johnx: And before that, I had something produced by the resurrected Trident, right before it went under again Nov 22 12:01:29 I want it to change everything fresh... cause I think I messed with the system too much Nov 22 12:01:32 And before, there was the NeoMedia (?) crap Nov 22 12:01:37 might have messed something up not knowing what I'm doing Nov 22 12:01:48 so noob Nov 22 12:02:29 305MB of 699MB Nov 22 12:02:34 hmm, s3 virge -> nvidia 128 (added a voodoo 2) -> matrox g400 -> radeon 7000 -> nv ti4200 -> nv 6600 Nov 22 12:02:35 gonna go brush my teeth Nov 22 12:03:07 How do you promote to testing? Nov 22 12:03:21 I learned my lesson on pie in the sky, open source video driver efforts where everything will work real soon now Nov 22 12:03:30 My packages seemed to have gone straight from devel to extras Nov 22 12:04:04 johnx: yeah - even open-source, open docs doesn't mean there will be enough interested coders. Nov 22 12:05:16 exactly. I decided I'd rather have a working desktop and play with embedded stuff Nov 22 12:05:54 alterego: maemo.org/packages Nov 22 12:06:06 In Fremantle, they could not go from -devel to extras Nov 22 12:06:46 YEah, that was chinook and diablo Nov 22 12:06:57 I'm looking at the fremantle one now. Nov 22 12:07:01 Erm, Nov 22 12:07:17 How do I promote it to testing for fremantle then? Nov 22 12:07:45 maemo.org/packages Nov 22 12:08:00 Yeah, I'm looking at that right now. Nov 22 12:08:09 I just wish on one of my linux installations everything would just work for once... Nov 22 12:08:37 You will need to install Windows for that... Nov 22 12:09:10 RST38h, you misspelled "just buy a mac and do whatever steve jobs tells you to" Nov 22 12:09:17 Dantonic: with ya.... Nov 22 12:10:31 I can't see a clear way to promote these packages :( Nov 22 12:10:58 lol well I don't know if I'll go that far Nov 22 12:11:03 going back to windows Nov 22 12:11:13 :P I just have to learn more linux Nov 22 12:11:30 johnx: I am not THAT sadistic Nov 22 12:12:02 johnx: Besides, given its use scenarios, is Mac really a computer or a consumer device for media consumption? Nov 22 12:12:10 * lbt is mildly amused at the apple/smokers/warranty thing atm Nov 22 12:12:30 yea it is cute Nov 22 12:12:48 RST38h, eh. they nerfed the iphonepod for sure, but macs are still damn nice machines for 80% of users Nov 22 12:12:57 Well, I smoke, but I'd never smoke around my laptop or desktop. Nov 22 12:13:18 I've seen the damage it can do, computers are delicate complex devices that should be in nice clean environments :) Nov 22 12:13:41 Hell, I even have air filters on all my workstations just to stop them getting dusty inside. Nov 22 12:14:23 heh. my desktop's CPU heatsink had recently swallowed enough dust to make it totally ineffective Nov 22 12:14:32 rofl alterego you should be as careful with your lungs! Nov 22 12:14:42 yea Nov 22 12:14:43 Yeah :/ Nov 22 12:14:57 they cannot be replaced too Nov 22 12:15:07 once the warranty expires on these... Nov 22 12:15:11 "... delicate complex devices that should be in nice clean environments..." Nov 22 12:15:17 :) Nov 22 12:15:25 Presumably I have to be the registered package maintainer to promote the package to testing? Nov 22 12:15:31 yea Nov 22 12:15:44 Shit, I think qwerty still has those rights :/ Nov 22 12:16:03 what package? Nov 22 12:16:09 ruby1.8 Nov 22 12:16:13 ah Nov 22 12:19:59 um Nov 22 12:20:10 my n900 has decided it doesn't want to charge anymore Nov 22 12:20:14 anyone have this experience? Nov 22 12:21:28 If it is connected to a computer, then that is a known bug Nov 22 12:21:40 timeless_mbp: my N900 hasn't turned up yet :( Nov 22 12:21:58 it's connected to either of 2 official nokia usb chargers Nov 22 12:22:11 Have you tried turning it off and on again? Nov 22 12:22:26 then it is doa i guess Nov 22 12:22:28 Hahah Nov 22 12:22:33 He's scared to turn it off ;) Nov 22 12:22:41 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QpmLrz_lSuE Nov 22 12:22:43 ^^ Nov 22 12:22:50 timeless_mbp: pull battery and try again? Nov 22 12:23:02 removing battery is recommended though Nov 22 12:23:05 Stskeeps: or that might kill it permanently! Nov 22 12:23:25 pull battery, leave 5 mins, unplugged, reinsert battery, plug in usb Nov 22 12:23:50 kurtan, that's pretty awesome Nov 22 12:23:54 in a fridge! Nov 22 12:24:08 johnx: IT crowd :P Nov 22 12:24:17 I guess I should start watching it Nov 22 12:24:23 yes you should Nov 22 12:24:30 atleast the first two seasons :p Nov 22 12:24:35 I just always felt like I got enough IT and Office at work to bother watching the shows Nov 22 12:24:59 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gt9j80Jkc_A Nov 22 12:25:14 there's one more Nov 22 12:25:40 powering it down + pulling battery worked Nov 22 12:26:12 hehe :) Nov 22 12:28:57 * RST38h looks at mininova.org idly, wondering what movie he should download Nov 22 12:31:03 A legal one I hope :P Nov 22 12:31:16 Continue hoping, I guess... Nov 22 12:31:19 Legally blonde? Nov 22 12:31:46 alterego: not a big fan of court dramas, too Nov 22 12:31:57 hey Nov 22 12:32:00 quick poll Nov 22 12:32:06 'Bookmarks' or 'Browser Bookmarks'? Nov 22 12:32:33 I'd wonder about web bookmarks. Nov 22 12:32:54 Stickies. Nov 22 12:33:11 Bookmarks Nov 22 12:33:24 Who calls a user agent a "browser" any more. Nov 22 12:33:45 RST38h, zombieland Nov 22 12:33:50 In a genereal context, bookmarks might be placemarks in a book, or file you're reading, or any other navigation checkpoint. Nov 22 12:34:01 johnx: I have got enough of those IRL Nov 22 12:34:06 I might want to set a bookmark for January 24th 2010 Nov 22 12:34:09 alterego: Ouch. Am I still the maintainer? If so, change it. Nov 22 12:34:30 qwerty12_N900: trying :) Nov 22 12:34:37 :) Nov 22 12:35:10 It's not clear on the protocol of how to do things in this situation, I put in a request, I don't know whether that requires your authorization or someone elses. Nov 22 12:36:50 'night all Nov 22 12:37:14 g'night Nov 22 12:39:32 "...surpassing the Dawn of the Dead remake to become the top-grossing zombie film in history." Nov 22 12:39:48 "top-grossing" sounds vague in this context Nov 22 12:39:54 heya javis, lcuk Nov 22 12:40:06 morn Nov 22 12:40:09 hey RST38h and javis lol Nov 22 12:40:23 Heh Nov 22 12:42:00 has anyone seriously looked at boot from mmc on n900 yet Nov 22 12:42:22 stskeeps did some bootmenu stuff Nov 22 12:42:50 yeah that will be for mer tho i assume, im wondering what hoops would have to be crossed for a maemo clone to sd Nov 22 12:43:02 especially with /opt being offsite so to speak Nov 22 12:43:14 so should I preorder an n900 like everyone else? Nov 22 12:43:25 who knows? Nov 22 12:43:35 what kind of question is that Nov 22 12:43:36 yigal, if you were dedicated you wouldv preordered someime in 1987 Nov 22 12:43:44 Hahah Nov 22 12:44:13 lcuk: you're right I must show my devotion Nov 22 12:44:15 lcuk, i dont think /opt will be a problem Nov 22 12:44:28 javispedro, it will if the partition is reused Nov 22 12:44:40 I just purchased a eee t91mt, yay Nov 22 12:44:41 and both original and clone use the same space Nov 22 12:44:52 so the startup of the clone must be altered Nov 22 12:45:03 to mount a different path Nov 22 12:45:09 yeah, but just edit the partition mounting script ;) Nov 22 12:45:19 er.. that. Nov 22 12:45:41 * lcuk nods Nov 22 12:46:01 in the original n8x0 cloning i dont think you needed to do that, you could just reclone and reclone as many times as you needed Nov 22 12:46:09 oh Nov 22 12:46:35 touché. Nov 22 12:46:44 on the n900 can a chroot be installed and made to work as nicely as it is on the n8x0? Nov 22 12:46:46 yuigal: Devoton can only be shown through a sacrifice Nov 22 12:47:03 yigal: Preferably human, but a small rodent or two will do too Nov 22 12:47:07 RST38h: should I burn my G1 Nov 22 12:47:17 yigal: Goood idea Nov 22 12:47:19 hang on Nov 22 12:47:19 java! Nov 22 12:47:26 On a sacrificial fire! Nov 22 12:47:34 yigal, no, your g1 is not a sufficient sacrifice Nov 22 12:47:37 javis: not again =) Nov 22 12:47:39 we need something with value Nov 22 12:47:41 to the tentacled one! Nov 22 12:47:50 my n800 :( Nov 22 12:47:57 :O how dare you Nov 22 12:48:06 Sacrificing n800 may be considered blasphemy Nov 22 12:48:06 thats like sacrificing your firstborn Nov 22 12:48:09 ahhh wlel Nov 22 12:48:11 needs must Nov 22 12:48:23 lcuk: What's wrong with that, may I ask? Nov 22 12:48:29 in what way Nov 22 12:48:32 it's by its nature a horrible sacrifice Nov 22 12:48:40 like talking technical and stuff Nov 22 12:49:16 qwerty im just having a rest from some things ive been looking at Nov 22 12:49:26 well burning n800 kills the kittens hidden between that power maemo's cuteness Nov 22 12:49:29 and part of looking at them made me think about cloning Nov 22 12:49:46 s/between/inside heh Nov 22 12:50:17 the n800 wasnt perfect until nokia added a bacon grill tray (hidden as a keyboard) Nov 22 12:50:37 I will burn the my desires and purify my body so that when I'm truly ready I will finally be given the n900 Nov 22 12:50:47 re Nov 22 12:50:56 ...and find out it is a phone. Nov 22 12:51:07 I think replacing my gnome-terminal launcher icon with a gnome-terminal+screen launcher icon was probably the coolest idea I've had over the past few weeks. Nov 22 12:52:27 timeless_mbp: bored? Nov 22 12:52:30 get yakuake on maemo Nov 22 12:52:39 drop down term, ooh Nov 22 12:52:55 oh, wait, i can do that on my ow Nov 22 12:52:56 n Nov 22 12:53:07 yigal: ...until you find out Matchbox sucks... =) Nov 22 12:53:34 ya, matchbox isn't that great Nov 22 12:53:41 it works though Nov 22 12:54:09 (it) sucksless mentality goes a long way Nov 22 12:55:31 On the N800, telling it to ignore requests to make a dialog modal was awesome, as I could actually still use the tablet while sending/recieving something Nov 22 12:55:51 over Bluetooth Nov 22 12:56:28 I'm thinking of turning the N810 into a home automation server, using the RS232 port talking to a MOXA box Nov 22 12:56:54 I mean the UART talking via RS232 to a MOXA Nov 22 12:58:00 alterego: sounds pretty sweet, would you make a gui for coffee making, blind raising etc.? Nov 22 12:58:15 Yeah, it'd be a web application though Nov 22 12:58:42 alterego: sweet, so different devices could in theory control the house Nov 22 12:58:43 Using my semantic services architecture with a RESTful interface on top of ti, then I could write a UI client too ^.^ Nov 22 12:59:00 Anything with a web browser and wifi access in my house yeah. Nov 22 13:00:02 I think I'll start with getting it to turn off/on my workstation, TV/monitor, and my XBox 360 Nov 22 13:01:28 Megalomania (n.) -- ... Nov 22 13:01:30 the n900 is the first tablet which make it very simple to connect an external monitor so awesome, but when will I be with you sweet Nov 22 13:01:54 you can connect external monitor to 5800 for now Nov 22 13:02:58 Then I'll get a beagle board to use as a media PC ^.^ Nov 22 13:03:13 ya, symbian boo Nov 22 13:04:33 connecting to the external monitor is only useful for movies/clips though Nov 22 13:04:47 I can't see the resolution being nearly good enough for presentations or text editing Nov 22 13:04:56 * RST38h looks for 4 more N900 users Nov 22 13:04:58 its perfect for presentations Nov 22 13:05:07 you mustv seen many Nov 22 13:05:21 text editing at 800*480 is more than people had for years Nov 22 13:05:31 you act like people had 1600*1200 always Nov 22 13:05:33 To finally push at least Speccy into Extras Nov 22 13:05:52 lcuk, I tried connecting it to my TV Nov 22 13:05:52 Is there a way to install Qt in the sdk? Nov 22 13:05:56 * RST38h edited a lot of text at 512x212 =) Nov 22 13:05:57 lcuk, went to TMO on it Nov 22 13:06:08 lcuk, my eyes were bleeding after 20 minutes or so Nov 22 13:06:22 1280x800 is really nice on my 10" screen Nov 22 13:06:39 RST38h, spec was even lower wasnt it Nov 22 13:06:47 crashanddie_, thats as maybe Nov 22 13:07:04 lcuk: V9938 could do 512x212 text Nov 22 13:07:17 lcuk: TMS9918/9928 could only do 256x192 Nov 22 13:07:33 * lcuk nods Nov 22 13:07:41 i was amazed when the amiga had low and high res Nov 22 13:07:57 Oh, Atari had VARIABLE res for ages Nov 22 13:08:06 and even tho it flickered like a bitch and made my eyes bleed more than anything nowadays Nov 22 13:08:07 i was happy Nov 22 13:08:12 In 2600, you had to update the screen with CPU :) Nov 22 13:08:29 yeah sounds like xv ;) Nov 22 13:08:39 Ok, what would be the best tmo forum to post a request to test n900 apps? Nov 22 13:09:09 mhhh. apt-cache search qt shows some stuff, but I don't see just "qt" and no "pyqt" either. Nov 22 13:09:38 how do you like that 1280x800, http://yigalweinstein.info/screen-shot.png , just beautiful Nov 22 13:10:07 yigal, on what device Nov 22 13:10:27 and you lost the left hand edge Nov 22 13:10:32 it's an eee not n900, n900 a bit overkill you're right Nov 22 13:10:32 yigal: Now I hate you; best I ever see all day is 1024x768 :'( Nov 22 13:10:34 dunno RST38h Nov 22 13:11:24 * lbt looks at his 3200x1280 desktop (with GL) and keeps schtum Nov 22 13:12:28 lcuk: Posting to Applications Nov 22 13:12:49 Would post to Games, but I am afraid to attract any attention from Oct2009ers Nov 22 13:14:09 lbt, sore neck? Nov 22 13:14:16 or all on one 4" screen Nov 22 13:14:31 Wow, got the SDK working really well for once ^.^ Nov 22 13:14:35 I have to get up and walk to see the other edge of the screen :) Nov 22 13:14:41 haha Nov 22 13:14:45 in a different timezone Nov 22 13:14:48 :O Nov 22 13:15:22 * SpeedEvil vaguely remembers one micro with a wierd 3 field interlace Nov 22 13:15:29 nb Bounce on a 10' projector makes you queasy... Nov 22 13:15:31 that 'worked' on most monitors Nov 22 13:16:38 lcuk, things are OK when the monitor is made for what you try to do Nov 22 13:17:25 lcuk, I wouldn't mind working on a 640x480 monitor, provided that it doesn't have pixels the shape of a clusterfuck Nov 22 13:17:47 * SpeedEvil 's other device has a 480*640 3.5" screen. Nov 22 13:17:48 can you draw a clusterfuck and send a pic Nov 22 13:17:56 Heh Nov 22 13:18:31 is the video card on the n900 restricted to a max of 480x640 or can it use a higher setting on an external monitor? Nov 22 13:18:36 1920x1200 on my lap[top, perfect for development :P Nov 22 13:18:42 lol Nov 22 13:18:45 alterego: lol Nov 22 13:18:46 vcgomes: 800x480 Nov 22 13:18:49 err, yigal Nov 22 13:18:50 yigal, 800*480 Nov 22 13:18:58 or occasionally 480*800 Nov 22 13:19:04 with aspect locking Nov 22 13:19:15 not bad Nov 22 13:19:40 and i was so surprised when i found out you can drive the n900 video out with different data to the internal lcd Nov 22 13:19:50 so i had liqbase on one and gtk on the other Nov 22 13:19:59 * SpeedEvil stabs the 100dpi mafia. Nov 22 13:20:14 100dpi is a stupid resolution for screens unless you are at least 1m from them. Nov 22 13:20:40 dpi becomes a stupid measure too Nov 22 13:20:47 dpi and pixels, I mean Nov 22 13:21:15 To an extent, yes. Nov 22 13:21:22 dell is selling the n900 again, but for $600 now Nov 22 13:21:27 * lcuk would love a floating point vector display Nov 22 13:21:43 something like angle of user's view taken up by a pixel Nov 22 13:21:49 it'd vary with viewing distance Nov 22 13:22:01 sounds useful Nov 22 13:22:08 or really confusing Nov 22 13:22:18 holographic display Nov 22 13:22:18 The 'right' dpi - IMO - is one where you can display a grid antialiased at any resolution without it being detectable by the eye if the screen has double the resolution Nov 22 13:22:19 is there any way to create itemized lists in bbcode? Nov 22 13:22:39 if it could be measured in realtime, the size of text on the display would become smaller as you brought the device closer, and bigger as you moved it further away Nov 22 13:23:21 Heh Nov 22 13:23:46 ShadowJK, no that would be seriously annoying Nov 22 13:24:08 RST38h: You missed the http://talk.maemo.org/maemo/images/editor/insertorderedlist.gif and http://talk.maemo.org/maemo/images/editor/insertunorderedlist.gif buttons in the bar at the top, while posting? :) Nov 22 13:24:44 i would write in 80pt font "you won 1million dollars" then in 6pt font "to claim enter 383487234273" Nov 22 13:25:33 I'm saying pt is a silly measure now :) Nov 22 13:26:10 you need to have relative measures within your code Nov 22 13:26:13 you'd have to normalize pt to something like "6pt when viewed at 30cm" or whatever Nov 22 13:26:13 and pt is understood Nov 22 13:26:29 but a pt is already something like that Nov 22 13:26:34 no Nov 22 13:26:36 hi, does anyone know if lastest maemo support tun/tap device? Nov 22 13:26:47 i cannot find anything with google Nov 22 13:27:58 qwerty: really? Nov 22 13:27:59 hmm Nov 22 13:28:43 the pt -> pixels transform depends on dpi, so it's basically a funny unit for what mm or inches expresses Nov 22 13:30:35 hi, any one here can tell me why this give me compile error ? device = g_object_new(LOCATION_TYPE_GPS_DEVICE, NULL); Nov 22 13:30:45 i followed the wiki on maemo Nov 22 13:31:05 invalid conversion from 'void*' to 'LocationGPSDevice*' Nov 22 13:32:05 so RST38h Nov 22 13:32:13 I dl'ed Master Gear Nov 22 13:32:33 and put Sega_Tween_Game_Gear.zip in ~/MyDocs Nov 22 13:32:44 I click on it and get a black screen Nov 22 13:36:51 has anyone complained to the ukeyboard guys that they broke their package by using find -exec? Nov 22 13:38:44 * timeless is kinda surprised the builder doesn't try to install the package Nov 22 13:39:08 timeless: He doesn't have an N900, and the SDK features the full find Nov 22 13:40:06 hmm, how can I reset the backlight time-out on the N900? Nov 22 13:40:49 surely we could augmment the builder w/ a busybox root Nov 22 13:41:32 jeremiah: proposal for test of packages for maemian.. does the package -actually- insert into a n900 chroot Nov 22 13:42:02 should be fairly easy with qemu arm user emulation :P Nov 22 13:43:23 Stskeepz: do you mean an install test? Nov 22 13:43:41 yeah Nov 22 13:44:28 qwerty: checked, my editor shows none of these Nov 22 13:45:01 * javispedro worries, worries, and worries. Nov 22 13:45:13 Stskeepz: Sounds good, I'll write that down Nov 22 13:45:30 javispedro: about? Nov 22 13:45:54 But I don't think it will be as easy as you think :P Nov 22 13:46:29 RST38h: When pressing "New Reply", in the text area, you should get a row of buttons above it. If not, go to http://talk.maemo.org/profile.php?do=editoptions and make sure Standard Editor is selected from "Message Editor Interface" Nov 22 13:47:15 qwerty: that should be it then...hm Nov 22 13:47:24 Stskeepz: security issues in allowing a chroot with nw connections (builder is, afaik, nw-less chroot) Nov 22 13:47:36 and you may need that to install deps? Nov 22 13:48:03 I had Simple Text Box there Nov 22 13:48:19 lbt: mm Nov 22 13:48:31 just a thought... Nov 22 13:48:38 food - back l8r Nov 22 13:48:38 Anyone else have issues with the application manageron the SD? Nov 22 13:48:54 Stskeepz: work and stuff I want to do when I get the n900. Nov 22 13:48:55 javis: I am sure you have seen this, but just in case: http://www.reuters.com/article/technologyNews/idUSTRE5AJ1EU20091120 Nov 22 13:48:56 ~SDK, it doesn't seem to want to install some packages ... Nov 22 13:48:57 Why wouldn't you have network? Nov 22 13:49:05 I mean, how would you install depedencies? Nov 22 13:49:18 did anyone make ogles1.1 work in device? I kinda remember my last "remote" test failed. Nov 22 13:49:38 hehe @ freezing autobuilder during the install test if an app waits for input ;) Nov 22 13:49:49 yow. ' "We are selling 400 times more games on iPhone than on Android,"' rst38 Nov 22 13:49:54 alterego: What packages is it choking? Nov 22 13:50:00 RST38h: not seen it, but totally expected. Nov 22 13:50:18 Anything in 'ruby-defaults' try installing 'irb' from extras-devel Nov 22 13:50:40 does Nokia already sell N900? Can't find any place to buy Nov 22 13:50:52 javis: Seen it a few days ago, also did not see it a s a surprise =( Nov 22 13:50:52 zap: nokia.com Nov 22 13:50:54 I know this is a stupid question, but is ruby already on teh device you are trying to install on? Nov 22 13:51:06 zap: Apparently the closest spot is NYC :) Nov 22 13:51:07 alterego: found only tge "preorder now" page Nov 22 13:51:09 Nope Nov 22 13:51:19 zap: Have you signed up for the Nov 24 event btw? Nov 22 13:51:24 no Nov 22 13:51:26 irb is a repl and won't work without ruby Nov 22 13:51:29 jeremiah: looking at the application manager logs it fails to find repository.maemo.org .. :/ Nov 22 13:51:35 I don't like tusovkas :) Nov 22 13:51:40 alterego: Ah, that sucks. Nov 22 13:51:59 what does your sources.list look like? Nov 22 13:52:07 But it's only that package .. Nov 22 13:52:13 odd Nov 22 13:52:27 zap: Well, neither I nor wazd intead to stay for the party, I guess, but the presentation may be worth taking a look at Nov 22 13:52:35 s/intead/intend Nov 22 13:52:53 http://pastie.org/709888 Nov 22 13:53:21 RST38h: I will watch it on youtube sitting in my chair :) Nov 22 13:53:36 alterego: Looks like that should work without a problem. Nov 22 13:53:54 alterego: Not sure what is wrong there. :-/ Nov 22 13:54:05 RST38h: Are you guys in Barc? Nov 22 13:54:16 And by Brac I mean Barcelona Nov 22 13:54:20 zap: sounds like a plan I can use too =) Nov 22 13:54:26 no we're in BRIC :) Nov 22 13:54:30 jeremiah: Not me, out of vacation days, low on money Nov 22 13:54:32 Anyone got a device they can try it on? :) Nov 22 13:54:39 natives abbreviate the city name as "BCN" Nov 22 13:54:43 ;) Nov 22 13:55:31 Foreigners call it "that Spanish city" ;P Nov 22 13:55:59 qwerty12_N900: didn't you read the tmo topic about the flag? ;) Nov 22 13:56:03 javis: or "Gaudi playground" =) Nov 22 13:56:29 javispedro: Nope, but do you happen to read BBC News? =) Nov 22 13:57:00 not read, but I sometimes listen to them. Blame Nokia's selection of Internet radio stations for the n810. Nov 22 13:57:10 javispedro: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8371305.stm Nov 22 13:57:32 ah, messy stuff. Nov 22 13:58:28 qwerty12_N900: that's awesome Nov 22 13:58:54 that selection of radio stations is also available on S60 ;) Nov 22 13:59:27 Does a package have to be inextras-devel for a period of time before it can be promoted to extras-testing? Nov 22 13:59:33 BBC isn't the worst choice though Nov 22 13:59:43 alterego: no, Nov 22 13:59:43 Because I can't see anyway to promote this package :/ Nov 22 13:59:52 but the autobuilder may take a while to upload pkgs to the repo Nov 22 14:00:03 alterego: ok, follow my directions Nov 22 14:00:12 m'ksay Nov 22 14:01:27 alterego: go to http://www.maemo.org/packages Nov 22 14:01:46 alterego: click on "All packages in Fremantle Extras-devel." Nov 22 14:02:10 m'hmm Nov 22 14:05:05 Ah, there's a premote package link now :P Nov 22 14:05:11 Thanks RST38h Nov 22 14:07:24 alterego: cooool =) Nov 22 14:07:55 It was that first step that I was missing I think ;) Nov 22 14:08:04 That linked it with the devel repository. Nov 22 14:10:29 Oh, I can't promote the whole "package" I have to do each individual component. Nov 22 14:10:34 (source package that is) Nov 22 14:11:07 what's this stuff about the "portrait mode bug"? Nov 22 14:11:11 ~seen yerga Nov 22 14:11:13 yerga is currently on #maemo (2d 18h 59m 8s). Has said a total of 13 messages. Is idling for 1d 19h 2m 56s, last said: 'ali1234, it worked fine here with 42-11'. Nov 22 14:12:08 darn, SWep4 is showing Nov 22 14:12:19 javispedro: bug 6203, maybe Nov 22 14:12:20 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6203 Rotation in 42-11 is not as smooth as in 41-10 for some third party apps Nov 22 14:12:59 no, this http://share.ovi.com/album/yerga.Maemo5portraitb Nov 22 14:13:05 Ah Nov 22 14:13:42 Maybe's he's referring to his N900 being stuck in portrait mode? Nov 22 14:13:45 javispedro: whose calendar app is that? Nov 22 14:13:51 the calendar app title is unfortunate Nov 22 14:14:08 that's what I want to know. Nov 22 14:14:19 my guess is that it's ours Nov 22 14:15:21 well there are not that many calendar apps in fremantle ;) Nov 22 14:15:58 Oh, balls Nov 22 14:16:02 course there are Nov 22 14:16:12 ruby installs to /usr/ but we should be doing everything under /opt now right? Nov 22 14:16:15 calendar apps are the new media players Nov 22 14:17:00 Apart from metalayer-crawler, I quite liked Diablo's default Nov 22 14:18:20 lcuk: What? The fremantle calendar doesn't play .ogg alarms? Nov 22 14:18:40 "It went in right before the release, Nov 22 14:18:40 we were not told about it, and we had no chance to test it or point out the obvious problem with it." Nov 22 14:18:44 * javispedro sighs Nov 22 14:19:04 range, mmm? Nov 22 14:19:07 i dunno Nov 22 14:19:33 javispedro: hmm? Nov 22 14:19:39 ohmd Nov 22 14:19:48 ah Nov 22 14:19:54 ohmd was there from the start though? :P Nov 22 14:20:00 lcuk: Well, if they are the new media players :) Nov 22 14:20:10 ah, I guess he meant while rotating only then Nov 22 14:20:23 lol i meant as in a hello world app Nov 22 14:21:48 Can you rotate the emulator? :) Nov 22 14:22:00 "the emulator".. Nov 22 14:22:06 Well, the SDK Nov 22 14:22:14 but yes, you can use xrandr to rotate Xephyr in the SDK Nov 22 14:22:34 or so said the wiki.. Nov 22 14:22:37 * lcuk vanishes Nov 22 14:22:40 Are they already filing bugs against "the emulator" on bugzilla? Nov 22 14:23:17 Heh Nov 22 14:24:16 quick question: the stuff listed on http://maemo.org/downloads/Maemo5/, is that a subset of what is in extras or where does that come from? Nov 22 14:24:46 user/* subset of extras. Nov 22 14:24:51 ah, ok Nov 22 14:24:58 Neat Nov 22 14:25:34 time for lunch Nov 22 14:25:38 llunch I guess, for "late lunch" Nov 22 14:26:11 qemu isn't an emulator now? Nov 22 14:26:23 The hint is in the name Nov 22 14:26:39 yes, that's kind of what i thought too Nov 22 14:26:49 but the SDK isn't. Nov 22 14:27:07 but the thing that lets you run armel binaries on a PC is Nov 22 14:27:13 ali1234, technically speaking, qemu is a "CPU Emulator" Nov 22 14:27:33 ali1234: but that's what most people talk about when they refer to the "emulator". Nov 22 14:27:44 javispedro: the SDK includes an emulator Nov 22 14:27:45 so, being pedantic, to answer alterego's question, "no, you can't rotate the CPU emulator" Nov 22 14:27:46 since, oh! the armel target doesn't even boot h-d. Nov 22 14:28:37 ali1234: and it includes a calendar application now, but that doesn't mean people should call it "the calendar". Nov 22 14:28:42 but yeah, people are right in using the term "emulator" for the SDK and stuff Nov 22 14:29:09 crashanddie_: no, because it tricks them into thinking the GUI they're seeing is being emulated. it isn't. it's running diferent binaries. Nov 22 14:29:21 who gives a? Nov 22 14:29:28 * alterego doesn't. Nov 22 14:29:29 it emulates how your application will behave Nov 22 14:29:48 If javispedro wants to correct everyone then so be it, I'm not going to lose sleep. Nov 22 14:29:49 crashanddie_: me. and the poor person who files a bug about my apps without trying on device, since I'll kill him. Nov 22 14:29:58 Meaning is more important to me than syntax :P Nov 22 14:30:03 Except when programming. Nov 22 14:30:09 or gives thumbs up/down in -testing without device. Nov 22 14:30:19 javispedro, whatev Nov 22 14:30:25 RST38h: did you see my query re MasterGear? Nov 22 14:30:27 crashanddie_: it's already happening. Nov 22 14:30:35 javispedro, again, who gives a? Nov 22 14:30:47 ah well, ok. Nov 22 14:30:51 Just ask that people who provide bug reports also provide a valid mac address Nov 22 14:30:52 done Nov 22 14:31:08 Hahah, Nov 22 14:31:24 if people are too stupid to understand that things don't work the same on-device and in the emulator, they're idiots Nov 22 14:31:33 you have the same limitation on *every platform* Nov 22 14:31:50 specially when on this platform the SDK is _not_ an emulator. Nov 22 14:31:59 javispedro, fuck off Nov 22 14:32:12 where i come from, an SDK is a compiler and some includes and libraries Nov 22 14:32:18 maybe not even the compiler Nov 22 14:32:29 * javispedro feels a dejà vú now. Nov 22 14:32:43 calling the emulator "the SDK" is just wrong Nov 22 14:32:58 it's even more misleading than calling it "an emulator" Nov 22 14:33:02 it's not an emulator! Nov 22 14:33:06 javispedro, the correct spelling is: Déjà vu Nov 22 14:33:09 nor is it an SDK! Nov 22 14:33:12 (minus capital) Nov 22 14:33:13 ali1234: he was right in what I Was talking about, I wasn't using the arm target, so the actual emulator (qemu) was not being used. Nov 22 14:33:31 while I don't agree either with calling it "SDK", at least that's what Nokia calls it. Nov 22 14:33:31 what you are calling the SDK is infact an entire distribution of maemo, for x86 Nov 22 14:33:41 ok. Nov 22 14:33:58 How about SDE then :P Nov 22 14:34:28 javispedro, iPhone emulator runs different binaries, blackberry emulator runs different binaries, android emulator runs different binaries Nov 22 14:34:30 hell, it would probably cause a lot less confusion if those virtual images... instead of having all the scratchbox cruft inside an ubuntu image or whatever... if they were just maemo x86 running native Nov 22 14:34:31 wannabe emulator Nov 22 14:34:40 crashanddie_: android emulator doesn't. Nov 22 14:34:42 ali1234: well, no, not really :P Nov 22 14:34:44 yes it does Nov 22 14:34:47 but i suppose that would be too logical Nov 22 14:34:47 no it doesn't Nov 22 14:34:53 javispedro, try to run a GPS app Nov 22 14:34:54 i just give it yesterday the snesoid apk Nov 22 14:34:55 ali1234: i welcome you to test out sdk on a x86 machine raw :P Nov 22 14:35:14 on a virtual machine? sure? why not? Nov 22 14:35:21 that is the same binary than runs on the actual phone, and it worked. Nov 22 14:35:26 so yes it runs same binaries. Nov 22 14:35:29 try that on the Maemo SDK. Nov 22 14:36:19 lbt: No, which one? Nov 22 14:36:20 javispedro, when I played with it (round droid 0.8, beta version), the emulator ran different low-level libs in order to have applications and platform not crash as soon as you tried to access a non-existing device, such as GPS Nov 22 14:36:22 it won't even work in the true "Emulator" (armel target) since qemu's sbox version support for newer arm cpus is ... well. Nov 22 14:36:31 RST38h: I dl'ed Master Gear Nov 22 14:36:33 lbt: (I may have forgotten) Nov 22 14:36:35 and put Sega_Tween_Game_Gear.zip in ~/MyDocs Nov 22 14:36:39 I click on it and get a black screen Nov 22 14:36:44 Of course Nov 22 14:36:54 MG does not support .zip files, and I am not sure why it should Nov 22 14:37:02 javispedro, I think I never compiled anything on device before the N900, everything was compiled in scratchbox, and then scp'd/or deb'd to the device Nov 22 14:37:08 my other emulators did, and there are no docs and it accepted it... Nov 22 14:37:12 Either give it .sms/.gg file, or .sms.gz/.gg.gz Nov 22 14:37:20 just as a comment Nov 22 14:37:37 crashanddie_: me neither, probably because "the emulator" in the diablo sdk was better. Nov 22 14:37:59 lbt: Quoting from the source code that prints help on "mg -help": Nov 22 14:38:00 "\nUsage: mg [-option1 [-option2...]] [filename]", Nov 22 14:38:00 "\n[filename] = Name of the file to load as a cartridge [CART.ROM]", Nov 22 14:38:00 #if defined(ZLIB) Nov 22 14:38:00 " This program will transparently uncompress GZIPped files.", Nov 22 14:38:00 #endif Nov 22 14:38:07 javispedro, sorry for the flaming btw, nothing personal Nov 22 14:38:22 I'm just starting to get pretty sick of all the people being so seriously anal about specific words Nov 22 14:38:22 crashanddie_: it's me who started the flaming, so don't worry. Nov 22 14:38:29 RST38h: err, this is a gui? with an About menu Nov 22 14:38:31 Heh Nov 22 14:38:36 RST38h: well, since "party" will look like silent sitting in "Yaposhka" near the store and talking with tablet users, not bloggers, then why not? :) Nov 22 14:38:38 For fuck's sake, it's a word, who gives a shit about how it's capitalised or used, as long as the meaning remains clear Nov 22 14:38:39 maybe that would be a place for help Nov 22 14:38:55 but if you don't want the feedback, that's cool too :) Nov 22 14:38:57 wazd: Yea, I am absolutely for this kind of party, I like these Nov 22 14:38:58 and yes GeneralAntilles, I'm talking to you as well with the above statement Nov 22 14:39:21 wazd: It is jumping around with a horde of bloggers scavenging for free food that I detest :) Nov 22 14:39:31 Hahahah Nov 22 14:39:58 RST38h: people on n8xx.com agree with you :) Nov 22 14:40:06 lbt: I guess the main problem is that I do not provide a menu item that links to the help page Nov 22 14:40:20 lbt: I implemented this in Windows, but it is missing from Maemo apps Nov 22 14:40:22 and, there's no unzip on the device Nov 22 14:40:40 lbt: unzip is actually available from Extras-Testing or -Devel Nov 22 14:40:51 lbt: (and no, it is not my problem :)) Nov 22 14:40:54 it's just not as slick as it could be IMHO Nov 22 14:41:12 filter on filetype/extentions would be useful Nov 22 14:41:13 RST38h: My biggest complaint with your emulators is that it quits when it can't load a file. You get a message on the console; why not show it in the GUI and give the user a chance to load a different file? Nov 22 14:41:23 lbt: Well...As far as ZIP handling is concerned, I would like to avoid it. It makes complete mess of the source code. Nov 22 14:41:43 lbt: And does not serve any useful purpose for myself, as I keep everything gzipped Nov 22 14:42:03 qwerty: That is easy to fix. I will try fixing it in the next release Nov 22 14:42:06 isn't it how they're normally handled though? Nov 22 14:42:14 qwerty: If it is not too much of pain, remind me about it in 3-4 days Nov 22 14:42:20 * lbt not an emu user really Nov 22 14:42:20 lbt: no Nov 22 14:42:24 RST38h: Thanks Nov 22 14:42:38 lbt: GZIP support is added trivially via ZLib and it is transparent Nov 22 14:42:53 *nod* Nov 22 14:42:56 tar.gz? Nov 22 14:43:01 or gg.gz Nov 22 14:43:02 lbt: ZIP support means I have to replace fopen/fread/fclose with a bunch of really messy code not written by myself Nov 22 14:43:06 lbt> gg.gz Nov 22 14:43:16 and do I need all the Source/ Stuff Nov 22 14:43:18 lbt: Think of it this way: Nov 22 14:43:55 lbt: you can have a directory with 100 .gg files that you gzip *.gg and compress them well, then stop thinking of them Nov 22 14:44:12 lbt: Or you can have a directory with 100 .zip files containing Cthulhu knows what Nov 22 14:44:38 lbt: And ask the emulator author to look into each file for you, pick a file that he thinks you consider relevant, and load it Nov 22 14:44:48 lbt: I would like to avoid the second route Nov 22 14:45:35 sure but the sites ship .zip packages ... Nov 22 14:45:49 RST38h: Fortunately, no one cares what you like. Nov 22 14:46:09 Has anyone wrote a script that does the inital validation that the promotion interface does? Nov 22 14:46:23 Might be good to have that so you can check before upploading all your junk Nov 22 14:46:28 so it's like saying that your package mgr prefers tar.gz so we should dl .deb files, unpack them and put them together again as .tar.gz files Nov 22 14:46:47 again, trying to be constructive Nov 22 14:47:13 derf: the feeling is mutual :) Nov 22 14:47:42 lbt: My package prefers the type of files containing rom images for the hardware I aemulate Nov 22 14:47:59 fair enough :) Nov 22 14:48:12 lbt: Handling for zip archives is provided by WinZip on windows, unzip on Linux Nov 22 14:48:19 this is why the "file soup" method of putting everything in one directory, and having each app try to guess which files it should and shouldn't show in file dialogues, completely and utterly sucks Nov 22 14:48:32 "morning" Nov 22 14:48:36 lbt: Having said that, I am sorry for not including a link to documentation into the package. Will have to fix it. Nov 22 14:49:39 Also, the lack of filtering by extension someone has mentioned is mostly because I could not figure out how to implement it in HildonFM2 :) Nov 22 14:49:43 Ah, I see the .gg.gz appears with a nice icon... would be good to have a filetype filter Nov 22 14:49:48 heh Nov 22 14:49:52 Yea, if you show me how to do it ;) Nov 22 14:50:12 looking inside .zip files? pft. Nov 22 14:50:20 look at how slow nautilus is. Nov 22 14:50:23 no, just an extension filter Nov 22 14:50:27 RST38h: Make them as normal (and, for libhildonfm2), explictly set that filter to be active? Nov 22 14:50:36 lbt: Notice that I set up the icons and the MIME types for all the relevant file types Nov 22 14:50:45 yeah, nice Nov 22 14:51:08 lbt: So once you stop asking for weird crap (like ZIP file parsing) and switch to correct archival methods, it all "just works" :) Nov 22 14:51:21 and it launches... Nov 22 14:51:27 so it should Nov 22 14:51:38 heh, no fair... you told me to dl a .zip file Nov 22 14:51:44 qwerty: Got a code snippet? ;) Nov 22 14:52:07 Nope =) Nov 22 14:52:07 and mame uses zip files.... so when it opened it, I assumed it was all good Nov 22 14:52:11 lbt: but...mm...don't you know what to do with zip files? :))) Nov 22 14:52:16 http://library.gnome.org/devel/gtkmm/unstable/classGtk_1_1FileFilter.html Nov 22 14:52:21 MAME is a bit different. Nov 22 14:52:34 * lbt not a mame/emu expert... Nov 22 14:52:36 Actually, in the case of MAME, using .zips is the least of possible evils I think Nov 22 14:52:55 ah, are you discussing a standard extension filter for the file open dialog? Nov 22 14:53:00 anyhow does that Sega_Tween_Game_Gear demo do anything Nov 22 14:53:04 javispedro: yes Nov 22 14:53:10 i do that in drnoksnes gui, lemme check Nov 22 14:53:11 MAME's problem is that every coinop board has different number of roms arranged in different ways with a lot of extra stuff (like charsets, palettes, overlays) Nov 22 14:53:22 So, MAME is kinda like OpenOffice in terms of storage Nov 22 14:53:34 It has to contain lots of heterogenous data in a single file Nov 22 14:53:51 All the time providing access to individual parts of that data. Hence ZIP usage Nov 22 14:54:24 https://git.maemo.org/projects/drnoksnes/?p=drnoksnes;a=blob;f=gui/plugin.c;hb=HEAD#l126 Nov 22 14:54:29 lbt: I have no idea what it does, just found you a homebrewn gg/sms rom to try :) Nov 22 14:54:33 ^^ gtk_file_filter_add_pattern sample Nov 22 14:54:53 lbt: You can google for real commercial sms/gg roms of course, but I can't legally provide you with any Nov 22 14:55:04 javis: Ahhhaaa!!! Nov 22 14:55:57 *.zip files =) Nov 22 14:56:29 well, see you Nov 22 14:57:45 heh, he beat me to it :) Nov 22 15:03:24 http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34043386/ns/travel-news?GT1=43001 <- wtf Nov 22 15:04:06 I know I shouldn't laugh, but... Nov 22 15:04:46 :/ libreadline5-dev seems to be broken. Nov 22 15:06:47 i wonder if nokia shops / suppliers / etc has a really bad impression of upcoming n900 users by now Nov 22 15:07:05 Heh, probably. Nov 22 15:07:28 Though, if they see it for waht it is, anticipation, rather than just childish obsession :P Nov 22 15:07:54 n900, turning people into madmen. Nov 22 15:07:59 which then will become more n900s. Nov 22 15:08:03 brilliant business model. Nov 22 15:08:48 I for one welcome our finnish overlords :P Nov 22 15:09:05 qwerty12_N900: interesting, I think that's a 727, which has a runway takeoff length of 5,800', which is quite a bit more than the remaining length of that runway Nov 22 15:09:15 How do I delete a GtkFileFilter? Nov 22 15:10:40 OH NO THEY DID IT! Nov 22 15:10:48 ? Nov 22 15:10:50 what do people recommend for a music player/centre app? Nov 22 15:10:58 * RST38h sighs at lardman Nov 22 15:11:01 desktop Nov 22 15:11:02 Twitter updates as a feature in MaeVoice :D Nov 22 15:11:11 Oh, that... Nov 22 15:11:20 wazd: keeping up to date with n900 news! Nov 22 15:11:21 :P Nov 22 15:11:21 lardman: WinAmp :) Nov 22 15:11:37 Pre-installed Rhythmbox has just gone tits up Nov 22 15:11:42 http://vimeo.com/7743059 Nov 22 15:11:57 lardman: Whatever looks like WinAmp on Linux will do Nov 22 15:12:04 I can EVEN update tweets! No way! Nov 22 15:12:04 :D Nov 22 15:12:11 yeah, am just trying to select from a long list of names tho Nov 22 15:12:56 * lardman tries Exaile Nov 22 15:13:06 lardman: pointless, go with winamp clone. Nov 22 15:13:19 lardman: tried that before, only winamp works :) Nov 22 15:13:47 there was one more, apparently done in Motif (!), but I no longer remember the name Nov 22 15:13:57 lardman: Amarok, but the older versions were way better Nov 22 15:15:34 lots of people like banshee and songbird Nov 22 15:15:44 songbird lol Nov 22 15:15:46 i've given up on that now, i just use spotify Nov 22 15:16:04 I'll give Amarok a go, have to switch to Qt at some point anyway ;) Nov 22 15:16:22 * qwerty12_N900 uses it in GNOME Nov 22 15:16:26 Don't even try giving songbird more then like 10000 tracks or it will fall from the sky like a lame duck Nov 22 15:16:33 qwerty12_N900: it's KDE based though Nov 22 15:16:39 yeah, same for banshee and rhythmbox Nov 22 15:16:41 mpd + Ario = win. Nov 22 15:16:45 lardman: Still works Nov 22 15:16:49 indeed Nov 22 15:17:00 maybe one day somebody will make a mp3 jukebox that doesn't choke on more than a couple of hundred files. but not today Nov 22 15:17:11 ali1234: mpd. Nov 22 15:17:18 mpd is not a mp3 jukebox Nov 22 15:17:21 it has no damn gui Nov 22 15:17:31 ali1234: you kidding >.> it has like a 100 guis. Nov 22 15:17:33 the mp3 playing backend is not the problem Nov 22 15:17:43 and Ario is an awesome gui to mpd. Nov 22 15:17:53 the problem is all the indexing system are rubbish Nov 22 15:18:53 moving the player backend out of the gui is just pointless, since they all use gstreamer anyway Nov 22 15:19:17 none of them are even responsible for playback Nov 22 15:19:44 ali1234: so you think it's pointless that mpd is a backend many people can use while choosing a frontend they like? like, a web frontend if you need it, or gtk, or qt, or with lots of stuff, or with little, or command line. Nov 22 15:20:13 yes, because the little command line part is superfluous and gstreamer is vastly superior Nov 22 15:20:44 i don't need yet another mp3 playing tool and all the associated audio configuration drama Nov 22 15:20:52 wazd: I am still missing point of MaeVoice Nov 22 15:21:05 ali1234: gstreamer can index my music? Nov 22 15:21:11 wazd: Most videos look like Alcoholics Anonymous admissions Nov 22 15:21:32 Shapeshifter: that's exactly the problem. nothing can index music in a decent way on linux Nov 22 15:21:51 ali1234: what's wrong with mpd? Nov 22 15:21:54 crashanddie_, I do. :) Nov 22 15:22:00 mpd does a good job doing so. Nov 22 15:22:33 ali1234, really interested in that list myself. :) Nov 22 15:23:02 ali1234: and what audio configuration drama are you talking about? Nov 22 15:23:40 All I need is a non web gui for Maemo 5 (ncmpc probably is a bit fiddly on there) Nov 22 15:23:41 rubbish, won't even play music while importing Nov 22 15:24:03 too much time wasted, /me cracks on with coding and uses N900 for music Nov 22 15:24:14 Shapeshifter: the audio configuration drama is the one where anything that isn't gstreamer chokes to death on pulseaudio Nov 22 15:24:28 ali1234: lol.... just install OSS for gods sake. Nov 22 15:24:32 alsa is rubbish anyway Nov 22 15:24:44 and the problem with mpd is it combines a bunch of stuff that really shouldn't be combined, in a way which is totally incompatible with all other software Nov 22 15:24:48 and complete and utter rubbish at that. Nov 22 15:25:06 hmm, has anyone compiled battlegweled for Fremantle? Nov 22 15:25:40 ali1234: I still don't see what you're talking about. I can run mpd, listen to music, see a flash movie at the same time in firefox and put mplayer on top of that, if I ever wanted to do that. Sound is not a problem, I don't see what mpd has got to do with any of this. Nov 22 15:25:51 Just because pulseaudio and alsa suck, doesn't mean mpd sucks >.> Nov 22 15:26:01 this is it though, pulseaudio does not suck for me Nov 22 15:26:37 what sucks is programs that don't bother to implement pulse support, instead taking the "not invented here" approach Nov 22 15:26:40 ahreally? Nov 22 15:26:51 the only ever reason to use alsa is because OSS doesn't support USB sound recording (i.e. webcam mics), which is reallly sad, but other then that it's totally awesome. Nov 22 15:27:04 ali1234: pulse support? *rolleyes Nov 22 15:27:21 yes pulse support Nov 22 15:27:40 ali1234: run it through padsp. Nov 22 15:27:45 Hmmm. I think the mpd I'm listening to right now has pulse support. Nov 22 15:27:51 padsp emulates OSS, not ALSA Nov 22 15:28:02 so it's only useful for a subset of all broken apps Nov 22 15:28:25 but hey, if you're too lazy to implement it, you could always just use gstreamer Nov 22 15:28:36 Should we also implement support for ALSA, ESD, ARTS? Nov 22 15:28:41 nope Nov 22 15:28:45 ali1234: so you think that all apps need to start supporting the inane alsa/pulse duct-tape solution? Nov 22 15:29:04 especially not ESD and ARTS, nobody important has used those for at least 10 years Nov 22 15:29:08 Then I will probably just wait for a year or two for PA to die its natural death. Nov 22 15:29:27 ;) Nov 22 15:29:34 actually i would suggest that nobody ever implement an mp3 player that hits the hardware directly Nov 22 15:29:40 instead, use gstreamer Nov 22 15:30:58 ali1234, still waiting on that list. ;) Nov 22 15:31:07 GeneralAntilles: at the moment it's just you Nov 22 15:31:16 ali1234, ah, good to know. Nov 22 15:31:24 So, ali, no list? Nov 22 15:31:31 ali1234, let me know when you get a clue. Nov 22 15:31:34 * RST38h kinda forgot but was reminded by General Nov 22 15:31:45 GeneralAntilles: sure. let me know when you stop being a hypocrite :) Nov 22 15:31:50 'cause right now you don't have one about me or what I contribute to this community. Nov 22 15:32:21 GeneralAntilles: you're right. all i know about what you contribute is what i get from reading what you write Nov 22 15:32:46 Nor, apparently, how bugzilla works or what my comments about it mean. Nov 22 15:33:37 * GeneralAntilles isn't surprised, anyway. Nov 22 15:33:37 really, what does bugzilla have to do with anything? i don't recall saying bugzilla was particularly bad? Nov 22 15:33:58 hmm, Amarok doesn't actually play anyway Nov 22 15:34:13 although i might have at some point. but i don't think it's the worst bug tracker or anything Nov 22 15:34:21 lardman: XMMS. Nov 22 15:34:42 lardman: Believe me, it is going to be nother quest for the holy grail =) Nov 22 15:34:44 I'm after something with a library Nov 22 15:34:48 Ah Nov 22 15:35:00 well Amarok quite literally does not play anyway Nov 22 15:35:26 Does *anything* play? It may be a problem with the audio driver after all Nov 22 15:35:52 nah the previous problem was a missing gst component, but I've no idea how it went missing Nov 22 15:36:05 and now, no, afaict nothing plays from Amarok Nov 22 15:36:15 lardman: It saw your GStreamer code coming Nov 22 15:36:16 it's decided to rescan though Nov 22 15:36:25 crap software Nov 22 15:36:39 * lardman fires up mplayer Nov 22 15:36:40 GStreamer has not gone missing. It hid! Nov 22 15:37:55 ok, so other apps are happy to output audio Nov 22 15:38:02 ali1234, my recommendation is that you focus on that reading thing. It's not working so well for you right now. Nov 22 15:38:33 Heh Nov 22 15:38:57 maemo.org is always so bloody sllow for me. Nov 22 15:39:00 GeneralAntilles: keep up the attacks, it's really convincing me that i should re-evaluate my opinion of you Nov 22 15:40:06 Gentlemen, could you just stop it? Nov 22 15:40:25 It is not worth the quarrel, really. Nov 22 15:40:49 whoever made this xterm open links so easy deserves @big THANKS! Nov 22 15:41:41 NO MORE hilighting the url like a monkey in a bad video game Nov 22 15:42:08 :) Nov 22 15:42:20 if you mean gnome terminal, it has got a few worse problems Nov 22 15:42:34 aargh, I'm going to strangle that bloody wolf Nov 22 15:42:42 just sitting there laughing (silently) at me Nov 22 15:42:44 like its insistance on focusing at the tab level Nov 22 15:42:56 s/level/label Nov 22 15:45:53 is there a way to get visual bell stuff into notifications with the xterm. It would be nice with irssi and mutt Nov 22 15:46:18 ~ < RST38h> lardman: Whatever looks like WinAmp on Linux will do Nov 22 15:46:21 soo... is there a way to get qt and pyqt into the maemo5 sdk? Nov 22 15:47:28 Shapeshifter: not in the repositories? Nov 22 15:48:45 default media player is good enough for me this time. i likes it Nov 22 15:48:55 pupnik_: I know, but I can't see the buggers Nov 22 15:50:43 pupnik: he needs the one for the desktop not for N900 Nov 22 15:51:02 o Nov 22 15:51:12 GStreamer-WARNING **: Failed to load plugin '/usr/lib/gstreamer-0.10/libgstschro.so': /usr/lib/gstreamer-0.10/libgstschro.so: undefined symbol: schro_virt_frame_new_vert_downsample Nov 22 15:51:15 that's my problem Nov 22 15:51:19 alterego: apparently not. apt-cache qt shows some qt libs but no package "qt" and pyqt isn't there at all. Nov 22 15:52:28 So much for using gstreamer... Nov 22 15:53:00 have fixed that by removing some packages, but rhythmbox still won't start, and fails silently Nov 22 15:53:10 * lardman reaches for a stick with which to hit the computer Nov 22 15:53:24 Spanking penguins? Nov 22 15:53:41 more like cracking penguin skulls open Nov 22 15:53:58 What would PETA say? Nov 22 15:54:56 He'd buy them off with some wine Nov 22 15:56:30 hmm, banshee is written in mono? Nov 22 15:56:44 Yes. Nov 22 15:56:53 * lardman tries it anyway Nov 22 15:57:42 [state-of-factly] Castle Anthrax Nov 22 15:57:58 Mono's a pain in the ass. And not because of the Microsoft affiliation, either. It's bloody slow. Nov 22 15:58:01 Seems to just be me using the auto-builder today :P Nov 22 16:00:08 ah, finally, banshee at least plays music Nov 22 16:00:20 * lardman now moves onto cursing segfaults Nov 22 16:00:29 Heh Nov 22 16:00:39 What are you trying tt odo lardman? Just listen to music? Nov 22 16:01:09 trying to code Nov 22 16:01:24 but wanted to listen to music, so have actually spent the best part of a hour installing stuff that won't work Nov 22 16:01:32 so am feeling nice and relaxed now :) Nov 22 16:01:37 Hahah Nov 22 16:01:38 or not Nov 22 16:01:45 * lardman goes and get a beer Nov 22 16:01:45 What distro you using? Nov 22 16:01:52 Ubuntu Nov 22 16:02:17 Weird, I use rhythmbox just fone on buntu Nov 22 16:02:22 ~fine .. Nov 22 16:02:23 * infobot requires .. to provide everyone else in the channel with fresh triple fudge brownies Nov 22 16:02:31 Mmmm. Nov 22 16:02:57 I did until today, when it stopped working Nov 22 16:03:11 no clue why, worked this morning, not this afternoon, no updates inbetween Nov 22 16:03:13 Interesting, Nov 22 16:03:47 well I know the error - is further up the page, but that doesn't even seem to have been the issue Nov 22 16:04:54 ~fine alterego Nov 22 16:04:55 * infobot requires alterego to provide everyone else in the channel with fresh triple fudge brownies Nov 22 16:05:40 rawr Nov 22 16:05:43 What did I do? :( Nov 22 16:05:54 Is it me wasting all the resources on the auto-builder? :P Nov 22 16:05:55 gave me a wrong idea. Nov 22 16:06:06 hmm osso_get_sys_dbus_connection() is segfaulting Nov 22 16:06:08 That is usually sufficient, too... Nov 22 16:09:27 hmm, what causes osso_initialize() to fail? Nov 22 16:09:42 ah, version number I bet Nov 22 16:10:36 haven't been checking the result of osso_initialize, have we? ;) Nov 22 16:10:53 n900 out yet? Nov 22 16:10:56 * Macer grins Nov 22 16:11:04 It is out at NYC =) Nov 22 16:11:20 chicago too from what i've heard Nov 22 16:11:21 Or so they say. Might be something in the water though. Nov 22 16:11:28 "heard" Nov 22 16:11:28 heh Nov 22 16:14:59 hmm, still failing Nov 22 16:15:49 Ok, it is C# night for me =( Nov 22 16:16:01 RST38h: Condolences Nov 22 16:16:13 lcuk: you around? Nov 22 16:16:31 btw, added extension filters, just need to test Nov 22 16:16:51 and if someone tells me how to start web browser from a program, I will add links to documentation Nov 22 16:17:04 in C? Nov 22 16:17:12 I have a small idea to add to file manager: new and modified to be on the top level of fm. It would query from tracker last 50 modified or added items (sorted by that field), and allow thus quick access to the new content. Nov 22 16:17:26 (btw: anybody is welcome to comment if that sounds good or bad) Nov 22 16:17:37 nice nice Nov 22 16:17:42 anyone know how to debug osso startup problems? Nov 22 16:17:44 It should be pretty trivial (and safe) change Nov 22 16:17:45 konttori: Sounds good Nov 22 16:17:48 i would use it Nov 22 16:18:50 "Officials in Spain tackle masturbation hands on" Nov 22 16:18:57 lol Nov 22 16:19:14 Pedos in government? Nov 22 16:19:19 "Who gives a shit about the economy, let's teach our kids how to spank the monkey!" Nov 22 16:19:50 Just goes to show how useless government officials really are Nov 22 16:19:55 and how little work they accomplish Nov 22 16:20:13 when is kbd backlight on n900 supposed to come on! Nov 22 16:20:20 it is dark here Nov 22 16:20:21 pupnik_, when you press it Nov 22 16:20:25 pupnik_, and it's open Nov 22 16:20:54 closing and reopening slide displaz worked ty Nov 22 16:21:39 the letter widths are not perfect Nov 22 16:21:47 u is darker than i Nov 22 16:22:59 how is that for a product hardware complaint? i dont know what else seems imperfect Nov 22 16:23:23 you think they're going to put an LED under each key? Nov 22 16:23:37 nope Nov 22 16:23:42 oh wait, you're joking :) Nov 22 16:24:11 wow, it works Nov 22 16:24:29 I was testing from the command line and it wasn't working, but from the menu it does Nov 22 16:24:32 and it even rotatesa Nov 22 16:24:33 cool Nov 22 16:24:39 ali1234: optimus-stylee would be cool Nov 22 16:24:51 what are you doing lardman ? Nov 22 16:25:01 That tmo thread about the ovi store license is funny. Nov 22 16:25:10 Is it me or is tmo getting really dumb? Nov 22 16:25:10 SpeedEvil: isn't this what touch screen is about? Nov 22 16:25:18 pupnik_: adding rotation support to mbarcode Nov 22 16:26:04 you have barcode recognition working? congrats! Nov 22 16:26:06 alterego: the AI server that provided smart comments has been turned off Nov 22 16:26:09 alterego, it's long past dumb. Nov 22 16:26:13 too much resources drain Nov 22 16:26:31 * GeneralAntilles notices Reggie pushing Talk for MWN. Nov 22 16:26:52 I think that if kb is open, the device should always be in landscape mode Nov 22 16:26:53 tmo or his own Maemo Talk? Nov 22 16:26:59 tmo Nov 22 16:27:01 ~MWN Nov 22 16:27:10 ~google MWN Nov 22 16:27:16 lardman, see the recent -community thread. Nov 22 16:27:17 so which plan do i need to get tmo 3g? same plan i had on my G1? Nov 22 16:27:21 konttori: that feels correct, but somehow I suspect there is going to be a case or two against that =) Nov 22 16:27:25 ah, the magazine Nov 22 16:27:25 ? Nov 22 16:27:29 http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/maemo/community/55170 Nov 22 16:27:46 Jaffa's weekly news Nov 22 16:28:01 i think it's still better than having otherwise accidental rotations Nov 22 16:28:05 konttori: even when remaping the arrow keys to compensate for it in tetris? :) Nov 22 16:28:12 RST38h: yes - but not quite Nov 22 16:28:42 GeneralAntilles: Interesting indeed. Don't quite see how it'd work. Nov 22 16:28:59 Discussion of articles should go wherever the article subject originated. Nov 22 16:29:04 konttori: how about disabling auto-rotate but still letting application rforce portrait mode? Nov 22 16:29:09 alterego: tetris is only in portrai Nov 22 16:29:13 Jaffa: btw I'd be happy to contribute Nov 22 16:29:21 lardman: excelllent :) Nov 22 16:30:30 I don't know whether weekly is too much,. Nov 22 16:30:39 Well, actually it probably isn't. Nov 22 16:30:39 hey, is there a rar available for the device? Nov 22 16:30:56 But I think maybe have a monthly larger edition? With like some code smnippets and tutorials or stuff. Nov 22 16:31:11 hmm, starts being real work then though Nov 22 16:31:31 alterego, what, and step all over christexaport's shoes? ;) Nov 22 16:31:32 Yeah, hence having that bit monthly, gives some time to work on publishing larger articles. Nov 22 16:32:04 Though, admittedly there is the blog-o-sphere to do our own stuff. Nov 22 16:32:24 * RST38h has seen unrar somewhere Nov 22 16:32:25 Then you'd be stealing audience from people who already bought their own space. :roll: Nov 22 16:32:42 alterego: Well volunteered :) Nov 22 16:32:47 lol Nov 22 16:32:59 * RST38h humbly suggests to Jaffa et al using newlc.com format rather than weekly Nov 22 16:33:15 newlc is pretty well done. Nov 22 16:33:57 RST38h: Isn't that basically a blog? Nov 22 16:34:06 Although they have changed the design in the wrong way lately Nov 22 16:34:10 Jaffa: Kinda Nov 22 16:34:39 agregator? Nov 22 16:34:47 Jaffa: It is different from the normlal blog because they provide quality news (rather than random stuff) and periodically do specialized tutorials Nov 22 16:34:54 With code snippets and stuff Nov 22 16:35:07 So, the article quality at newlc is about the same as you propose Nov 22 16:35:14 Ah, agreed. Ther's a space for that - but as lardman says, starts being real work then. Nov 22 16:35:25 But they just keep the flow, not doing weekly stuff Nov 22 16:35:26 * Jaffa will leave high quality in-depth journalism to christaexport for now. Nov 22 16:35:32 True Nov 22 16:35:48 Well, if you strive to finish it by the end of each week, it is real work Nov 22 16:36:01 If you finish it when you finish it, it is still bearable I guess Nov 22 16:36:49 * RST38h tries to somehow summarize the situation Nov 22 16:36:50 need to get some journo types involved then Nov 22 16:36:54 as they will want to do it Nov 22 16:36:55 Let us see... Nov 22 16:37:12 1. We have a bunch of blogs from individuals, of different quality Nov 22 16:37:18 2. We have an aggregator of these blogs Nov 22 16:37:23 3. We have a forum Nov 22 16:38:01 One thing we miss (and I guess this is what Jaffa is trying to achieve) is a "manual" aggregator that only collects the top quality blog entries and removes all repeats Nov 22 16:38:10 RST38h: Correct. Nov 22 16:38:24 Jaffa: In fact, I even know where you can stick it Nov 22 16:38:24 and also someone to summarise the very long TMO threads Nov 22 16:38:27 and ml ones Nov 22 16:38:29 Jaffa: maemo.org News section Nov 22 16:38:31 And fish out the quality stuff from a thousand-long thread Nov 22 16:38:38 Jaffa: As opposed to the Planet subesection of News Nov 22 16:38:59 RST38h: Slightly harder cos of the way that works (and would require the content to be entered into midgard, AIUI) Nov 22 16:39:16 At least with Planet can do output however one wants and have it included. Nov 22 16:39:19 Jaffa: Well, that is something maemo.org team should work on Nov 22 16:39:54 What will the format of this emag be? Nov 22 16:40:11 Jaffa: Also, do steal newlc's idea of color-coding articles Nov 22 16:40:16 konttori, ping Nov 22 16:40:38 RST38h: but... Nov 22 16:40:39 Jaffa: According to the thematics (i.e. news, review, developer stuff, etc) Nov 22 16:40:49 RST38h: that'll lead to scrolling past reams and reams of white on white posts. Nov 22 16:41:02 why? Nov 22 16:41:25 oh - blogs - I thought you were talking about highlighting talk threads Nov 22 16:43:21 alterego: HTML, lightweight. Downloadable or readable. Other formats in future, perhaps. Nov 22 16:45:18 Jaffa: By "lightweight" you do not mean current maemo.org and tmi themes, I hope? Nov 22 16:45:24 s/tmi/tmo Nov 22 16:45:35 i like the slashdot approach to forums, having moderation and filtering to just show the 5 decent comments on a thread Nov 22 16:45:55 On ./, you are really better off not seeing any comments... Nov 22 16:46:12 Keeps your faith in humanity safe, you know Nov 22 16:46:47 Heh Nov 22 16:46:57 tmo is starting to get that feel too now though :P Nov 22 16:47:15 Who's going to pay for the therapy of the tmo monitors? Nov 22 16:47:24 lol Nov 22 16:47:43 * qwerty12_N900 nominates alterego Nov 22 16:47:48 Hah Nov 22 16:47:57 I find one-touch-band-and-removing people stops me needing therapy ;) Nov 22 16:48:03 s/band/ban Nov 22 16:48:39 Use that power with less discretion, please. Nov 22 16:49:01 :) Nov 22 16:49:16 'This one time, at ban camp' Nov 22 16:49:31 Hah Nov 22 16:49:44 does talk have moderators? Nov 22 16:49:45 * GeneralAntilles is personally in favor of applying the beatdown to people who troll about "Fixed in Fremantle" in otherwise productive threads. Nov 22 16:49:51 suihkulokki, yes. Nov 22 16:49:56 perhaps more MW4 first to get the right mindset Nov 22 16:50:24 suihkulokki, problem is that historically speaking there was only one and he was never very proactive in his application of moderation. Nov 22 16:50:28 I do wonder about maemo "news" because I don't seem to find much "news" anywhere. Nov 22 16:50:33 suihkulokki, so it's a lot more lenient than many forums. Nov 22 16:50:40 I think the only news I see is generally new SDK releases. Nov 22 16:50:43 ooh, plug N900 into usb, select mass-storage. Instant reboot Nov 22 16:50:46 IS there some resource I'm missing? Nov 22 16:50:51 alterego, Planet? Nov 22 16:51:09 GeneralAntilles: bug fixes and random stuff about firefox mobile? :P Nov 22 16:51:10 GeneralAntilles: would certainly need more moderation imho :P Nov 22 16:51:19 Even Planet is going down the shitter with those stupid Twitter feeds Nov 22 16:51:45 We need tree.maemo.org for twitter :P Nov 22 16:51:58 suihkulokki, I agree, but every time somebody tries to do something productive or useful on Talk the conspiracy theorists come swarming out screaming about the maemo.org cabal and Nokia's plan to steal their pocket lint. Nov 22 16:52:10 Yeah, that Firefox feed really needs fixing. Nov 22 16:52:41 I think we just need to let everybody have their own domain where they only see the things they want to see. Nov 22 16:53:12 qwerty12.maemo.org only shows questionable material. Nov 22 16:53:45 Where can I sign up? Nov 22 16:53:47 Heh Nov 22 16:53:48 * SpeedEvil screams 'You can take our lives, but you can never take our lint!' Nov 22 16:54:19 hmm, how about modding up/down? But only listening to mods from people you 'trust' Nov 22 16:54:39 Web of trust type thingy Nov 22 16:54:41 * lbt mods SpeedEvil down Nov 22 16:54:47 no-one cares Nov 22 16:54:51 :) Nov 22 16:54:54 kinda Nov 22 16:54:58 more social Nov 22 16:55:00 slashdot Nov 22 16:55:11 Ugh Nov 22 16:55:25 yeah, but there are some people on tmo who I'd trust to mod down the morons Nov 22 16:55:28 lbt: sort of amazon 'recommendations' - but weighting mods against that Nov 22 16:55:43 just slashdot I think Nov 22 16:55:52 So rating a post down weights all the other mods that voted it down up for your personal weight Nov 22 16:55:57 but only factoring in certain people's votes Nov 22 16:56:03 no Nov 22 16:56:07 I've got an even better idea, we can all look through the planet aggregation list and choose the sources that are actually useful :P Nov 22 16:56:16 Then include them in our own RSS readers :P Nov 22 16:56:26 just if I mod it down and you listen to me then you see it as -1. Otherwise you don't Nov 22 16:56:40 alterego: I'm thinking about tmo Nov 22 16:56:41 lbt i want wikipedia where i can change the bias. i want an article on manchester united from a man u fan Nov 22 16:56:50 Ah Nov 22 16:56:56 alterego: click on the opml lnink to get the list of rss feeds in your rss app - then just remove anyones you don't want =) Nov 22 16:56:59 same idea as you are thinking Nov 22 16:57:01 I don't use tmo much, so I Don't really know. Nov 22 16:57:12 suihkulokki: yeah, that's an even better idea :P Nov 22 16:57:12 allow everyone to vote Nov 22 16:57:22 but only account for friends votes Nov 22 16:57:22 * lbt thinks tmo would be a wasteland after I got through with it ;D Nov 22 16:57:29 lcukn900: yes Nov 22 16:57:45 lbt, sounds like a better plan. Nov 22 16:57:46 hmm, so shall I unpack and then repack my H/VBoxes when the orientation changes? Nov 22 16:57:54 lbt, hasten it's demise so we can move on completely. Nov 22 16:57:58 heh Nov 22 16:58:01 I think we should forget about negative voting and just have positive. Nov 22 16:58:14 I think twitter feeds are not really useul on planet Nov 22 16:58:18 We should just troll relentlessly until useful content stops appearing. Nov 22 16:58:20 alterego: nah, I want to positively ignore some posts Nov 22 16:58:23 That's the problem, tmo is full of crap, if we had thumbs up and a section of tmo that showed the most "interesting" threads, we'd be fine. Nov 22 16:58:26 suihkulokki: Amen Nov 22 16:58:31 suihkulokki, most certainly. Nov 22 16:58:34 suihkulokki: +1 Nov 22 16:58:50 we should make gaining an account more difficult... Nov 22 16:58:56 Yeah, lets have tree.maemo.org Nov 22 16:58:56 perhaps a karma score of >200 or so? Nov 22 16:59:07 lardman: not a bad idea. Nov 22 16:59:14 lardman, you have to answer a battery of historical questions about Maemo. Nov 22 16:59:15 another september that never ends? Nov 22 16:59:39 Which would disqualify jokers like that javispedro. Nov 22 16:59:40 ohdamn Nov 22 16:59:43 you know, the +/- votes wouldn't even need to be visible Nov 22 17:00:02 * javispedro poses and smiles Nov 22 17:00:13 heh, how appropriate Nov 22 17:00:16 obscure and useful or famous and useless... Nov 22 17:00:42 GeneralAntilles: as a community member can you mail that to planet @ maemo.org :) Nov 22 17:00:46 * lbt nervously watches a raid rebuild... Nov 22 17:00:59 * suihkulokki delegates Nov 22 17:01:11 suihkulokki, what, removing the twitter feeds? Nov 22 17:01:17 ya Nov 22 17:01:28 Council member, we're all community members :P Nov 22 17:01:30 Somebody hit X-Fade once he gets back from vacation. Nov 22 17:01:37 or change the layout Nov 22 17:01:43 alterego: GeneralAntilles ain't on the council anymore Nov 22 17:01:44 alterego, nothing of the sort. Nov 22 17:01:44 i like a sidebar of twits Nov 22 17:01:54 but not main articles Nov 22 17:02:02 Oh Nov 22 17:02:17 Did you get too many -10's GeneralAntilles ? :) Nov 22 17:02:19 Does Vimeo let you do any editing when you upload stuff? Nov 22 17:02:24 alterego, https://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Community_Council Nov 22 17:02:28 I didn't run for a 3rd term. Nov 22 17:02:43 Yeah, we all booed him off Nov 22 17:02:49 * Stskeepz ponders if the price drops are due to increased demand Nov 22 17:03:02 Yeah, I thought you'd still be in the Council, just not the leader? Nov 22 17:03:19 alterego, that was my second term. ;) Nov 22 17:03:26 A year was plenty long for me. Nov 22 17:03:50 * lbt wonders about trying again to get contacts of his N900 Nov 22 17:04:01 lbt, vCards? Nov 22 17:04:06 ? Nov 22 17:04:11 go on... Nov 22 17:04:12 lbt, export some? Nov 22 17:04:31 or I can point you at some code that will list the contacts for you Nov 22 17:04:32 Should be a menu option. Nov 22 17:04:42 hmm, yes Nov 22 17:05:00 I wanted syncml... but at this point... Nov 22 17:05:06 GeneralAntilles: thanks :) Nov 22 17:05:10 lol Nov 22 17:05:25 lardman: yes please... I can then convert to ldif I guess Nov 22 17:05:33 ok, hang on a tick Nov 22 17:05:35 fr.emploi.* (french newsgroups regarding jobs and recruiting) are dead, no new posts since april... The crunch is going strong! Nov 22 17:05:53 pardon me, for this stupid question: When talking about unlocked phones what does, "Carrier unlock", "international retail unlock" and "US retail unlock means" Nov 22 17:06:22 does N900 even support simlock? Nov 22 17:06:23 :P Nov 22 17:06:38 goodwill: not really the place to ask. Nov 22 17:06:39 the ones I see on newegg says US carrier unlock Nov 22 17:06:43 try ##gsm Nov 22 17:07:01 Stskeeps: If not this one, we know the device running Maemo 6 will =) Nov 22 17:07:02 goodwill, buy an N900, call it a day. Nov 22 17:07:06 goodwill: it probably just means it'll work on any provider in he USA Nov 22 17:07:13 As it's a USA model N900 which is unlockedw Nov 22 17:07:18 http://people.bath.ac.uk/enpsgp/nokia770/emerillon/test_abook.c Nov 22 17:07:24 alterego: only ask cause I am looking at the n900 and trying to figure out whether I'll be able to use it internationally Nov 22 17:07:30 alterego, minus CDMA and iDEN providers. Nov 22 17:07:37 lardman: ta Nov 22 17:07:39 goodwill: yes. Nov 22 17:07:41 np Nov 22 17:07:50 goodwill: all - at the moment - n900s are the same hardware Nov 22 17:07:55 (well - modulo keyboard) Nov 22 17:07:59 ^ Nov 22 17:07:59 it says "US retail unlock" though Nov 22 17:08:03 *sighs* Nov 22 17:08:13 is designed to just print out online- contacts, but has to iterate through all of them to work that out, etc Nov 22 17:08:15 goodwill: all can be fixed with a software update. Nov 22 17:08:16 And I don't think anyone is actually selling locked n900s yet Nov 22 17:08:21 goodwill, Newegg also claims Mozilla made the built-in browser and that it's Maemo's first mobile computer. ;) Nov 22 17:08:36 goodwill, Newegg likes to throw around random buzzwords Nov 22 17:08:37 GeneralAntilles: did you contact newegg? Nov 22 17:08:50 NewEgg needs to do research for more then 20 seconds. Nov 22 17:08:52 timeless_mbp, haven't bothered trying to find a contact address yet. Nov 22 17:09:02 than* 20... Nov 22 17:09:03 than* Nov 22 17:09:29 I am still not sure where to get an n900 that is completely unlocked then Nov 22 17:09:35 GeneralAntilles: hrm Nov 22 17:09:37 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16875205178 Nov 22 17:09:41 Maemo Browser powered by Mozilla technology Nov 22 17:09:42 goodwill, there are no locked N900s. :) Nov 22 17:09:43 that's ok Nov 22 17:09:46 which part am i looking for? Nov 22 17:09:49 goodwill: they're all completely unlocked, were you not listening to what we were saying? Nov 22 17:10:01 alterego: alright Nov 22 17:10:02 timeless_mbp, one of the questions in the giveaway quiz. Nov 22 17:10:07 oh Nov 22 17:10:08 thank you Nov 22 17:10:09 nice Nov 22 17:10:36 Giveaway quiz? Nov 22 17:10:39 http://promotions.newegg.com/Sweepstakes/NokiaN900/index.html?cm_mmc=SNC-Facebook-_-na-_-na-_-na Nov 22 17:10:41 Also, unless they say "N900, locked to vodafone" it's unlikely to be locked to anything, it should have been a bit more of a giveaway that they said it was "unlocked". Nov 22 17:10:44 http://www.newegg.com/HelpInfo/OverView.aspx#ContactUsTab Nov 22 17:10:48 * LiveChat Hours of Operation: Nov 22 17:10:48 * Mon - Fri: 5:30am - 5:30pm PT Nov 22 17:10:54 "Mozilla, the makers of Firefox, created an internet browser for the N900 that supports flash and video, so you can experience the web just like you do on your computer." Nov 22 17:10:56 Though I can understand the confusing with "USA" Nov 22 17:11:00 ~confusion.l Nov 22 17:11:13 is media player not playing youtube flvs a bug? or a mikssing feature? Nov 22 17:11:20 missing Nov 22 17:11:22 GeneralAntilles: not false actually Nov 22 17:11:28 pupnik: Depends Nov 22 17:11:29 it doesn't say "created *the* browser Nov 22 17:11:44 pupnik: I would say it is a missing decoder, i.e. this is not a bug Nov 22 17:11:50 k Nov 22 17:11:56 then again, i don't understand what's limiting n900 to be non-simlockable. i mean, all the celluar modem stuff is closed and in a diff chip.. Nov 22 17:11:59 timeless_mbp: well their ambiguous grammer is a different issue all together :P Nov 22 17:12:09 and you could probably lock on that level :P Nov 22 17:12:29 Stskeeps, I believe locks _are_ done on that level. Nov 22 17:12:40 i'm pretty sure i've translated strings for locked n900s Nov 22 17:12:42 should i file a feature request to play back youtube flvs? Nov 22 17:12:44 But how many operators do you know of that are selling the N900's right now? Nov 22 17:12:57 alterego: there's one in england Nov 22 17:13:04 timeless_mbp: really? Who? Nov 22 17:13:04 other than that, i don't know of any Nov 22 17:13:05 alterego: that's not an operator Nov 22 17:13:10 Indeed Nov 22 17:13:37 alterego: it's a mobile phone store that applies the kickback they get from the network for a new connect to provide a phone. Nov 22 17:13:39 pupnik: Just call it properly: "Please, implement flv decoding plugin" Nov 22 17:13:53 However - vodafone.ie have said they will carry it Nov 22 17:13:54 Heh Nov 22 17:14:05 Oh, like, car phone werehouse or something. Nov 22 17:14:12 DivX decoder is also missing and there have been multiple complaints about H.264 decoder completeness Nov 22 17:14:23 pupnik_: Installing zoutube will install gstreamer-flv, at least Nov 22 17:14:24 Yeah, Vodafone have said they'd provide it, but not until next yeaer, and they really _love_ branding their scht. Nov 22 17:14:42 qwerty: Won't that fix pupnik's problem? Nov 22 17:15:05 RST38h: Not sure if the Media player will start to list FLVs... Nov 22 17:15:20 But it should be able to play them if it does do so Nov 22 17:15:37 listing flvs is something tracker should do? Nov 22 17:16:01 qwerty: Btw, is it at all possible to implement subtitles inside the current gst framework? Nov 22 17:16:14 My neighbor really loves practicing the clarinet. Nov 22 17:16:18 qwerty: I.e. without involving Nokia and preferably by using an existing component? Nov 22 17:16:22 hmm, the contents of the zipfiles in a backup are interesting Nov 22 17:16:36 RST38h: gstreamer has a plugin that'll render fonts Nov 22 17:16:42 lbt: If you want to change the address book this way, it does not work :( Nov 22 17:16:49 RST38h: zaheerm tried, but it requires being able to get the name of the currently playing file Nov 22 17:16:50 ah Nov 22 17:16:59 https://forum.vodafone.ie/index.php?/topic/1140-nokia-n900/ - vodafone.ie Nov 22 17:17:05 lbt: If you find a way, PLEASE let me know Nov 22 17:17:08 there's a comment in a vodafone.co.uk forum from someone at vodafone indicating they expected to have the n900 Nov 22 17:17:13 alterego: exactly Nov 22 17:17:16 RST38h: *nod* Nov 22 17:17:18 * RST38h has got a whole address book of phone numbers starting with 8- Nov 22 17:17:28 Need to change 'em to +7 Nov 22 17:17:34 +7 ?? Nov 22 17:17:50 russia? Nov 22 17:19:56 if I place an HBox and a VBox into another box and only fill one, does the other take up no (screen) space? Nov 22 17:21:25 lardman: depends on stretch Nov 22 17:21:40 and thumb and border and... Nov 22 17:21:51 but yes Nov 22 17:22:48 timeless_mbp: are you sure you're not thinking of .ie? Nov 22 17:23:00 SpeedEvil: the forum hit i have is .co.uk Nov 22 17:23:19 http://forum.vodafone.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=35671 Nov 22 17:23:31 (bah, fish it out of google cache) Nov 22 17:23:36 timeless_mbp: as soon as last week - the forum mods on .co.uk have been saying 'we can't say', look on 'coming soon' - where it doesn't appear Nov 22 17:23:49 SpeedEvil: ah Nov 22 17:26:27 RST38h: Export all contacts as vCard, regexp search & replace, re-import Nov 22 17:26:41 * Jaffa did that to make sure all his numbers were internationalised Nov 22 17:27:02 Jaffa: Will it merge stuff automagically? Nov 22 17:27:24 Jaffa: are you aware of any work to sort out syncing to Linux desktops? Nov 22 17:27:35 lbt: I'm not aware of any Nov 22 17:27:43 lbt: thanks Nov 22 17:27:50 RST38h: No, but it should keep fidelity if you delete all and re-import. Nov 22 17:27:57 RST38h: Take a backup to be sure, though ;-) Nov 22 17:28:08 qwerty: Well, it can probably show a file open dialog to select subtitle file on init? Nov 22 17:28:26 Jaffa: Hmmm...ok. Sounds mighty dangerous though Nov 22 17:29:26 hmm, can I add the same widget to two boxes, and only display one of them? Nov 22 17:29:36 no Nov 22 17:29:37 RST38h: Not a bad idea... Now you've got me interested, lol Nov 22 17:29:40 thought not Nov 22 17:30:19 RST38h: Why? VCFs are a trivial text-based format. Nov 22 17:30:21 you can move a widget between two locations Nov 22 17:30:39 yep, was just trying to avoid repacking new boxes, etc Nov 22 17:30:41 oh, I would be interested in knowing how to get the name of the currently played filename from a gst demuxer Nov 22 17:31:01 guys, I'm trying to add extras-devel to my SDK but I can't find how to do that. The extras-devel page doesn't even feature deb lines of the repo Nov 22 17:31:21 Shapeshifter: http://repository.maemo.org. Nov 22 17:31:40 even though I think it goes against gst principles... since basically it could be not a file but a pipe, etc. Nov 22 17:32:00 there was a discussion recently on the correct flashing order... eMMC then fiasco or vice-versa.... Nov 22 17:32:03 qwerty12: ahh thanks. Nov 22 17:32:06 any conclusion? Nov 22 17:34:11 mhh. but for some reason these 404 if I add them and then run apt-get update: Failed to fetch http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/dists/unknown/free/binary-i386/Packages.gz 404 Not Found [IP: 213.155.157.9 80] Nov 22 17:34:24 same for Err http://repository.maemo.org unknown/free Packages 404 Not Found [IP: 213.155.157.9 80] Nov 22 17:35:00 mh I guess that should say fremantle Nov 22 17:35:03 and not unknown >.> Nov 22 17:35:52 nevermind, it's working now. Nov 22 17:36:08 but at least in the SDK the .install link to add repos seems to be broken. Nov 22 17:38:05 ok, so if I destroy a box, but it contains widgets to which I still hold a reference, is the box destroyed and the widgets remain ok? Nov 22 17:38:26 hmm, must be a cleaner way to do this Nov 22 17:38:33 Jaffa: I know, just being afraid that some part of the process will scre up (as always) Nov 22 17:38:53 wow, the new fresh faces at tmo Nov 22 17:39:33 "what does dosbox emulate?" ... /me crawls towards his coffin Nov 22 17:40:00 tell them "boxes" Nov 22 17:40:18 dasbox Nov 22 17:40:22 l m a o Nov 22 17:41:08 dos =microsoft operating (Disk Opera.. Sys..)< D O S Nov 22 17:42:11 the BALDER.img on a ubuntu .iso is an image of FreeDOS. Nov 22 17:42:38 ah? Nov 22 17:42:49 and what's FreeDOS doing in a ubuntu iso? Nov 22 17:42:56 so can you use dosbox to work an Freedos floppy?? Nov 22 17:43:21 pupnik: troll 'em! Nov 22 17:43:21 i forgot. think it has own dos builtin Nov 22 17:43:32 dosbox has own dos builtin. Nov 22 17:44:00 they put it in i case you got to boot linux the Hard way using command line with dos ..Lin.. something. Nov 22 17:44:03 lardman's offhand genius will be the foundation of my millions someday Nov 22 17:44:14 you know the charging animation when the device is switched off Nov 22 17:44:15 das box Nov 22 17:44:20 in case you want to waste time I guess :) Nov 22 17:44:22 can i change that for amiga workbench Nov 22 17:44:29 Mh. I can't find the sqlite3 bindings for python in the repos. Well, at least not in extras-devel. There is an extras repo for fremantle, isn't there? it's not on that page Nov 22 17:45:10 tell them "boxes" hahahaha Nov 22 17:45:20 so many levels ;) Nov 22 17:45:27 javispedro Do you want to waste time?.. Nov 22 17:45:53 RST38h: so... one of the fields is a creation date Nov 22 17:45:53 no, I would like to have more time to waste =) Nov 22 17:46:01 afaiu the creation date is how merges are handled Nov 22 17:46:08 * lardman has boxes, of the GTK persuasion, on the mind atm Nov 22 17:46:11 two nodes w/ the same creation stamp are related Nov 22 17:46:16 and the one w/ the newer modification stamp wins Nov 22 17:46:21 (at least, in general) Nov 22 17:47:28 * timeless_mbp frowns Nov 22 17:47:34 um... GeneralAntilles ? Nov 22 17:47:44 why does the package promotion system record my ip address? Nov 22 17:47:49 if it records my name, surely that's sufficient Nov 22 17:48:13 nothing is sufficient when Data Mining. Nov 22 17:48:32 but i don't want to be data mined Nov 22 17:48:34 i am not a number! Nov 22 17:48:40 are you number 2? Nov 22 17:49:12 check your wallet and there is Licence number a SS number .. Nov 22 17:49:17 I am not a number. I am a free man! Nov 22 17:49:30 You're number 3456032. Now shut up. Nov 22 17:49:34 http://www.museum.tv/eotvsection.php?entrycode=prisonerthe Nov 22 17:49:42 type_t2: i'm unlicensed :) Nov 22 17:49:55 juego de boxeo online http://www.kobox.org/kobox-fande-Nourine.html Nov 22 17:50:13 http://www.freepatentsonline.com/3456032.html UTILIZATION OF PROPANE RECOVERED FROM LIQUEFIED NATURAL GAS Nov 22 17:50:27 timeless_mbp: I only know that from sample iron maiden uses.. Nov 22 17:50:48 fear of the dark \,./ Nov 22 17:50:58 suihkulokki: aww, we need to get you some episodes from the prinsoner Nov 22 17:51:09 s/prinsoner/prisoner/ Nov 22 17:51:09 timeless_mbp meant: suihkulokki: aww, we need to get you some episodes from the prisoner Nov 22 17:51:33 ~lart Gnome for the taskbar locking up Nov 22 17:51:33 * infobot slaps Gnome upside and over the head with one freakishly huge killer whale named hugh for the taskbar locking up Nov 22 17:52:22 * Shapeshifter is still looking for a way to get python sqlite3 bindings into his sdk :| Nov 22 17:52:26 You think Gnome's bad now? Wait until Gnome 3.0. It'll be the KDE crapfest all over again. Nov 22 17:53:05 * lardman will move to KDE then Nov 22 17:53:22 no, because Gnome3 is basically removing the taskbar, so at least it won't hang =) Nov 22 17:53:22 I'll simply move with Nokia ;) Nov 22 17:53:32 really, news to me Nov 22 17:53:37 sounds... interesting Nov 22 17:54:44 By then, maybe KDE will be a decent desktop. It's getting better over time, although I don't think it'll ever quite get back to the level of the 3.x series. Nov 22 17:55:19 np, we'll switch to enlightment Nov 22 17:55:19 javis: what is coming instead of task bar? Nov 22 17:55:37 * RST38h likes current gnome Nov 22 17:55:52 I'll link you a youtube vid of it, because it's sort of hard to explain. Imagine a virtual desktop switcher as a taskbar and launcher. Nov 22 17:55:55 RST38h: something weird with parts of it written in javascript Nov 22 17:56:10 ohmygod Nov 22 17:56:15 that's all /me needs to know about it =) Nov 22 17:56:41 Here's a nice vid of a recent build: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjoUlCbVHDE Nov 22 17:57:07 javis: desktop widgets? Nov 22 17:57:29 No desktop widgets that I've heard of, no. Nov 22 17:57:44 Oh wait, nevermind. Nov 22 17:58:02 http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2009/09/gnome-3-quick-visual-tour.html Nov 22 17:58:02 but I was thinking desktop widgets -- I think the transitions and rest of stuff is written in js Nov 22 17:58:11 s/I was/I wasn't Nov 22 17:58:21 GNOME 3 seems to remind me of Maemo 5 :) Nov 22 17:58:39 yea Nov 22 17:58:57 * RST38h wishes people stopped "improving" desktops Nov 22 17:59:13 * Jaffa leaves RST38h with his Windows 1.0 and GEM... Nov 22 17:59:21 now move the global menu bar to the top and tada! Nov 22 17:59:23 wow gnome3 looks like liqbase Nov 22 17:59:27 Workbench was fine Nov 22 17:59:33 It reminds me of a bloody bad idea. There are rumors that Canonical's gonna hire people to fork Gnome because they think that Gnome 3 will kill their user base. Nov 22 17:59:49 Not that I think GNOME 3's going in the right direction (or the wrong one); but it's good to push these thoughts out there. Nov 22 18:00:01 * Jaffa guru meditates all over RST38h Nov 22 18:00:11 seems more usable than the first videos I saw about it though Nov 22 18:00:19 now all it's missing is a classical task bar in the bottom Nov 22 18:00:27 no, this Gnome3 thing does look like Maemo5 Nov 22 18:01:20 add a classical task bar in the bottom and remove the useless sidebar and you have a usable system again :) Nov 22 18:01:24 javispedro: No task bars... the designers claim they're against it. All apps are launched by zooming out and dragging them to a desktop. Nov 22 18:01:34 a usable system that is mostly the same as gnome 2 :D Nov 22 18:01:43 javis: They seem to assume that an avregae user starts so many applications at once that he needs to SEARCH through them using a text box Nov 22 18:02:04 and that "recent documents" needs 25% of my screen state Nov 22 18:02:13 Jaffa: the right direction for GNOME 3 is Qt4 Nov 22 18:02:29 which is something I never used, and the only time I enter that menu is to clear it. Nov 22 18:02:30 :D Nov 22 18:02:42 luke: Which is now owned by Nokia and not truly FOSS Nov 22 18:02:54 RST38h: what? Nov 22 18:02:56 and a different language Nov 22 18:03:08 lcuk: GNOME has never had a standard language Nov 22 18:03:09 kde is goin great as it is Nov 22 18:03:10 javis: Well, at least I do not see The Paperclip in GNOME3 Nov 22 18:03:18 KDE is getting suckier and suckier Nov 22 18:03:22 javis: Unless the sucker is hiding somewhere Nov 22 18:03:25 RST38h: it's right there on the sidebar. Nov 22 18:03:30 but thats the qt version of gnome Nov 22 18:03:31 just wait for the slideshow plugin :) Nov 22 18:03:39 lcuk: no, KDE has nothing to do with GNOME Nov 22 18:03:50 KDE even predates GNOME Nov 22 18:03:59 ffs they do the same job Nov 22 18:04:03 you know what i mean Nov 22 18:04:16 "adly, Compiz and Gnome-Shell dont play nice, however this doesnt mean the end of eye-candy effects as gnome-Shell has slick animations all of its own thanks to Clutter! " Nov 22 18:04:29 (and what do I do if I have only got the IGD?) Nov 22 18:04:56 pray your brain gets used to the slow-mo desktop Nov 22 18:05:12 or downgrade to XFCE? Nov 22 18:05:16 I feel that the Linux desktop is suffering from a lack of good UI design. Current Gnome is okay, future Gnome looks bad, KDE isn't very good. Nov 22 18:05:31 or stick with what you have/use an upgraded fork as discussed Nov 22 18:06:01 you think everytime you change the desktop metaphor you gain new users. I see everytime someone changes the desktop metaphor they lose users. Nov 22 18:06:10 hmm, I now have an app where none of my widgets appear in portrait mode, and all come back for landscape Nov 22 18:06:38 well, save for Apple. they just put Jobs on a show and Him'll take care of even selling something as .... as the Dock! Nov 22 18:06:40 lardman: some container is acting wrong? Nov 22 18:06:58 Apple is different Nov 22 18:07:24 I have and HBox which contains an HBox + a VBox, and I switch a pair of box widgets between those two Nov 22 18:07:25 Those cultists will applaud even when you give them tactile 3D UI made of cow turds Nov 22 18:07:39 smello-vision Nov 22 18:08:15 someone ports Ogre -> the N900 can run GTA3 Nov 22 18:08:19 * javispedro sighs Nov 22 18:08:47 do GTK widgets need to be destroyed or are they ref counted? Nov 22 18:09:14 lardman: some containers take over management Nov 22 18:09:41 e.g. I'm thinking of destroying a VBox and then placing the contents in an HBox on rotation, etc Nov 22 18:09:55 lardman: only the top one needs ot be Nov 22 18:10:03 the rest goes with it Nov 22 18:10:11 you may want to move them and *then* destroy the top box Nov 22 18:10:16 ah, so everything is destoryed underneath Nov 22 18:10:19 ok Nov 22 18:10:24 yes Nov 22 18:11:05 javispedro: ogre was ported to beagleboard, last i read Nov 22 18:11:21 there's now a port for the n900 in tmo Nov 22 18:11:22 lardman: do you use GTKmm? Nov 22 18:11:41 no Nov 22 18:11:50 I try to avoid C++ Nov 22 18:11:56 is that C++? Nov 22 18:12:09 lardman: yes, it's a C++ wrapper of GTK+ Nov 22 18:12:11 yes, GTKmm is C++ Nov 22 18:13:08 hmm Nov 22 18:13:10 N900 scorched3d would be a challenge Nov 22 18:13:17 i wonder if qole could do Easy Diablo Nov 22 18:13:27 for running diablo-only apps on n900 Nov 22 18:13:27 :P Nov 22 18:15:24 port diablo to n900! Nov 22 18:15:48 javispedro: it isn't impossible for sure.. :P Nov 22 18:16:06 daimonin Nov 22 18:16:40 gets u a nice mmorpg within n900 performance profile Nov 22 18:16:49 * RST38h thought javispedro meant the game Nov 22 18:17:22 * javispedro stabs RST for thinking javispedro had joined the ordes of tmo users Nov 22 18:17:27 i would like a free dungeon keeper Nov 22 18:17:40 defending a dungeon against heroes was fun Nov 22 18:17:52 Seriously though, Diablo-like UI on top of Angband would rule Nov 22 18:18:07 so what's the new firmware all about? Nov 22 18:18:42 new firmware? Nov 22 18:19:01 RST38h: did you know that the diablo devs were roguelike players? they consciously emulated the concept Nov 22 18:20:13 lardman, /topic Nov 22 18:21:38 ah, few days old Nov 22 18:24:08 pupnik: Of course I did, it does not take too much to see that :) Nov 22 18:24:09 RST38h: there's Vulture's Eye and -Claw, but they're for Nethack and Slash'em Nov 22 18:24:29 pupnik: Of course, making it time-based rather than turn-based spoiled all the fun Nov 22 18:24:42 Timpii: Ahaaa, thanks, gonna check 'em Nov 22 18:24:52 * RST38h can probably live with Nethack based one Nov 22 18:25:27 Looks like it is based on Falcon's Eye Nov 22 18:25:42 argh, not getting on too well with adding and removing things from boxes Nov 22 18:26:02 yip, falcon's eye stagnated a bit so they forked it Nov 22 18:26:20 lardman: it is messy :( Nov 22 18:26:29 lardman: what is your widget hierarchy right now? Nov 22 18:27:04 it's notebook( hbox( vbox, vbox) ) Nov 22 18:27:12 javispedro, qwerty, pupnik: Take a look at this little gem: http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/Vulture%27s Nov 22 18:27:16 Portable? Nov 22 18:27:28 and I want to make it swap between that and notebook( vbox( vbox, vbox) ) Nov 22 18:27:44 SDL -- should be, Nov 22 18:27:51 lardman: can you switch to vbox(hbox,hbox) or maybe vbox(hbox(vbox,vbox))? Nov 22 18:27:55 dunnou about the performance. Nov 22 18:28:02 RST38h: You must've "known" me for long enough now to know that Nethack isn't my cup of tea :) Nov 22 18:28:09 javis: Falcon's was pretty statis, performance show be ok Nov 22 18:28:17 qwerty: Not really =) Nov 22 18:28:31 RST38h: the two vboxes need to either sit next to one another in landscape or ontop of one another in portrait Nov 22 18:31:01 lardman: ok, wrap'em all into another vbox Nov 22 18:31:04 i love whoever made the url click in N900 terminal Nov 22 18:31:05 see what happens Nov 22 18:31:29 lbt: still here? Nov 22 18:31:38 tried porting vuktures eye in 2007 RST38h Nov 22 18:31:51 RST38h: http://maemo.pastebin.com/m42f2fde2 Nov 22 18:31:54 my project dir had 200 subdirs Nov 22 18:32:06 pupnik: wow...why? Nov 22 18:32:19 somebody should add anti-alias function to border pixels in http://nethack.wikia.com/wiki/File:Vultures_eye.png Nov 22 18:32:24 thought it might be fun Nov 22 18:32:32 anti-aliased transparency I mean Nov 22 18:32:39 so true Nov 22 18:33:15 200 dirs though? Nov 22 18:33:23 * RST38h salivates over that screenshot Nov 22 18:33:48 lardman: Ok, one thing you may want to do is stop bothering with reordering widgets in containers Nov 22 18:34:11 how do you mean? Nov 22 18:34:20 lardman: just kill the whole tree and recreate it from scratch. In fact, make a single function create_ui(GtkWidget *Parent) Nov 22 18:34:38 I need to keep the child widgets active ideally Nov 22 18:34:46 lardman: That kills all parent's children and create them all anew Nov 22 18:34:48 otherwise I need to re-parse data, etc Nov 22 18:35:01 is that costly? Nov 22 18:35:14 well gst setup cost amongst other things Nov 22 18:35:18 so yeah Nov 22 18:35:40 hmmm...'cause I do not think anyone can guarantee you what happens when you rearrange existing widges in gtk+ Nov 22 18:35:50 I was hoping that just removing the widgets from the HBox|VBox, and then setting the notepad entry to the new one would do the trick Nov 22 18:36:57 ok let us proceed on assumption that it is safe Nov 22 18:37:06 I do not see you removing hbox Nov 22 18:37:22 only removing two vboxes Nov 22 18:38:22 yeah I remove two vboxes from what is either an hbox in landscape or a vbox in portrait Nov 22 18:38:24 oh, here is a possible problem Nov 22 18:38:35 who is the parent of your hbox and vbox? Nov 22 18:39:10 either a VBox or an HBox, which is the notepad entry Nov 22 18:39:21 wait Nov 22 18:39:25 appdata->tab[0] Nov 22 18:39:36 who is the parent of appdata->tab[0]? Nov 22 18:39:46 a notepad Nov 22 18:39:51 <_|Nix|_> Is the fremantle-extras-devel buildbot building? Nov 22 18:39:59 All right. So the notepad owns both hbox and vbox at any given time? Nov 22 18:40:09 appdata owns all the entries Nov 22 18:40:22 ah, perhaps I need to tell GTK that? Nov 22 18:40:25 <_|Nix|_> I've been waiting for, like, an hour for some resuts on Pidgin ... Nov 22 18:40:30 appdata is just a struct, let us forget about it for now Nov 22 18:40:39 Nix: Somebody murdered it today Nov 22 18:40:46 <_|Nix|_> Great ... Nov 22 18:40:55 Other people complained Nov 22 18:41:02 ok, so at any one time, one of the H|VBox which will be contained in appdata->tab[0] is floating and empty Nov 22 18:41:23 in fact which will be pointed to by appdata->tab[0] Nov 22 18:41:26 lardman: yea. but I think you need to remove the empty one from the notepad Nov 22 18:41:49 lardman: so that at any given time, the notepad only contains one widget, either vbox or hbox Nov 22 18:41:49 hmm, I can't just overwrite the pointer and it will be updated?> Nov 22 18:42:08 that code is there at the bottom, but it didn't do anything Nov 22 18:42:08 I don't think so :) Nov 22 18:42:19 <_|Nix|_> I don't actually need it, if I can figure out why Application Manager seems to ignore packages available from rivial repositories ... Nov 22 18:42:27 <_|Nix|_> trivial, even ... Nov 22 18:42:50 RST38h: my other thought was for appdata->tab[0] to be a static box, and I can then place my container V|HBox in it Nov 22 18:42:53 Nix: care to quote the repo config? Nov 22 18:42:57 <_|Nix|_> I have one at deb http://192.168.1.33 ./ and it doesn't pick up the new version of Pidgin ... Nov 22 18:43:27 <_|Nix|_> ... yet apt-get upgrade picks up the updates, and apt-cache policy also sees the newer package. Nov 22 18:43:35 Repo is probably set up wrongly...But I am not an expert on repos unfortunately :( Nov 22 18:43:37 can I create a GTKBox? It's not just there to be subclassed? Nov 22 18:43:38 what are the pptp ports? Nov 22 18:43:47 RST38h: back now Nov 22 18:43:47 i can't seem to get this damn vpn to connect anymore and don't know why Nov 22 18:44:00 unless tmob has blocked the ports altogether to prevent vpning from a g1 Nov 22 18:44:02 lardman: Ok, the appdata thing is completely bogus Nov 22 18:44:15 <_|Nix|_> RST38h: It's a really simple setup ... a directory full of .deb files plus a Packages file listing them ... Nov 22 18:44:22 Macer: heh, probably Nov 22 18:44:33 lardman: it carries no meaning other than let you "freeze" it in the rarely used Nokia's app free process (when it gets out of memory) Nov 22 18:44:36 <_|Nix|_> I'm mystified as to why HAM ignores the updates available therein ... Nov 22 18:44:37 Stskeeps: you busy now? was wondering if you could test teh vpn for me Nov 22 18:44:57 Macer: very slow at getting into new things at this exact moment Nov 22 18:44:59 RST38h: for me appdata is a global which contains all of the data needed by the app Nov 22 18:45:01 lbt: Will a link to the page with documentation from the Gtk-friendly About box be sufficient? Nov 22 18:45:12 lbt: In terms of cdocumenting MG and my other apps? Nov 22 18:45:18 lardman: Exactly Nov 22 18:45:19 damn. ok Nov 22 18:45:21 active link would be great... Nov 22 18:45:48 lardman: The reason why this data is not just a bunch of global vars is to let Maemo take the whoel appdata and save it to disk, afaik Nov 22 18:45:50 RST38h: so if the fact that the struct holds a pointer to a gtk widget counts towards the ref counting that's fine Nov 22 18:45:57 yeah Nov 22 18:46:03 and to make it neat ;) Nov 22 18:46:05 lardman: But this has nothing to do with Gtk Nov 22 18:46:18 damn thsi sucks Nov 22 18:46:19 right, so I need to grab a reference Nov 22 18:46:24 is there sshfs for xp? :) Nov 22 18:46:41 since this vpn crap doesn't seem to be working all that well Nov 22 18:46:47 lardman: In Gtk, your hbox and vbox widgets are both children of another widget Nov 22 18:46:51 Macer: yeah I think there is actually Nov 22 18:47:00 hm. that would work Nov 22 18:47:09 lardman: So, by looking at your code snippet I see that you keep them both as children Nov 22 18:47:14 Macer: but 3rd party, ping qwerty12_N900 Nov 22 18:47:22 lardman: ANd my guess is that only one of them should be, the one you are currently using Nov 22 18:47:36 lbt: Then that is how I am going to do it. Nov 22 18:47:39 heh Nov 22 18:47:43 anybody up to test a vpn for me? Nov 22 18:47:54 just to see if it's teh phone.. since that is the only external network i can get on right now Nov 22 18:47:57 RST38h: well I'd like to swap between them, and as only one can contain the data, that's troublesome Nov 22 18:47:58 it will connect locally Nov 22 18:48:07 Macer: There's Dokan, which mounts an SFTP server as a 10GB hard drive... Alternatives exist, but they aren't free Nov 22 18:48:07 i don't thihnk i'd have to forward ports for pptp would i? Nov 22 18:48:08 works for me - although a Help button would be better -and you have a spare slot Nov 22 18:48:10 unless I place both in yet another box Nov 22 18:48:28 lbt: yea, but I may have a few other uses for it ;) Nov 22 18:48:28 qwerty12_N900: can you test a vpn for me? :) Nov 22 18:48:40 In fact, I have got a plenty of spare slots now, check the latest versions Nov 22 18:48:46 Macer: Sorry, I don't have OpenVPN set up Nov 22 18:48:50 doh Nov 22 18:48:54 i need someoen with an xp box Nov 22 18:48:54 (Or installed, even) Nov 22 18:48:56 Good - it was looking ..... full Nov 22 18:48:57 i'm doing this in xp ;) Nov 22 18:49:05 i just need to make sure someone can connect to the vpn Nov 22 18:49:11 it was working before. i don't know wha thappened Nov 22 18:49:13 lardman: You won't be losing any data, as these boxes do not have to be destroyed, just disconnected from their current parent Nov 22 18:49:18 i'm guessing a tmobile thing Nov 22 18:49:24 i used to be able to tether and connect to it Nov 22 18:49:38 RST38h: that's what I thought I was doing? Nov 22 18:49:58 lardman: right now, you are not switching vbox and hbox, just moving stuff from one to another Nov 22 18:50:11 lardman: which make sme conclude both hbox and vbox are children of the notebook Nov 22 18:50:22 swapping and altering the appdata->tab[0] Nov 22 18:50:36 altering tab[0] does not do a thing, remember, that is YOUR OWN struct :) Nov 22 18:50:37 so that it just points to one of them Nov 22 18:50:48 ah crap Nov 22 18:50:50 of course Nov 22 18:50:55 though..... Nov 22 18:51:02 no Nov 22 18:53:17 anyone know if it's possible to have the n900 set up as a wireless AP? Nov 22 18:53:38 would be nice to have an ipod touch, for example, connect to the internet via the n900 Nov 22 18:54:19 well, it should work Nov 22 18:54:23 why even use an ipod touch? Nov 22 18:54:24 but how.. Nov 22 18:54:44 RST38h: some apps on the ipod that aren't on the n900 Nov 22 18:55:36 and you are willing to carry two gadgets that do the same thing a bit differently? Nov 22 18:56:03 Well, one of 'em can phone... Nov 22 18:56:36 ...and play video without reencoding... Nov 22 18:56:42 ...and has a keyboard... Nov 22 18:56:55 ...and a decent resolution display... Nov 22 18:57:27 Let me guess: You're not talking about the iPod Touch? Nov 22 18:57:40 welp Nov 22 18:57:43 * RST38h cackles Nov 22 18:57:46 let me try otu this dokan crap :) Nov 22 18:58:03 RST38h: yes Nov 22 18:58:40 <_|Nix|_> I had to turn on red-pill-mode and turn off "Ignore Packages From Wrong Domains" to see updates from that repo. Nov 22 19:01:09 So, no more repositories outside of maemo.org??? Nov 22 19:01:32 that was in diablo too. Nov 22 19:02:08 see file /etc/hildon-application-manager-domains/ Nov 22 19:03:54 RST38h: ah, working Nov 22 19:04:26 RST38h: and was before I posted the code too, I was just confused by the left-overs on my gst output window not being updated Nov 22 19:04:28 doh! Nov 22 19:04:36 RST38h: but thanks for the help Nov 22 19:05:04 Will the calendar support iCal invites? Nov 22 19:05:16 the SDK says unknown calendar file Nov 22 19:05:25 when opening the attachment from mail Nov 22 19:06:08 Now krisse's chiming in on the "MWN encroaches on our territory" meme. I'm resisting saying "perhaps if you weren't saying all the same thing and actually did the work I'm suggesting, I wouldn't need to suggest it". Nov 22 19:06:30 lardman: eh! Nov 22 19:06:44 Jaffa: He has got a territory? Nov 22 19:07:01 RST38h: allaboutmaemo Nov 22 19:07:11 s/He/She/? Nov 22 19:07:31 but isn't the idea of MWN more "lower level" than _any_ maemo fansite? Nov 22 19:07:32 Jaffa: I have never seen Krisse IRL, still assuming He Nov 22 19:08:08 The name looked male, although who am I to guess Finnish names? Nov 22 19:08:54 what's mwn? Nov 22 19:09:15 Jaffa's proposed news site Nov 22 19:09:27 RST38h, "Krisse" sounds a bit unigender to me Nov 22 19:09:38 but i'd probably assume female Nov 22 19:09:41 ShadowJK: there is a real name, a moment Nov 22 19:09:59 krisse can be a real name too :-) Nov 22 19:10:14 yea Nov 22 19:10:42 But it is ...what do you call it? a short abbreviation of a full name, isn't it? Nov 22 19:10:48 is there an easy way to get a gtk widget such as a drawing_area to redraw itself? Nov 22 19:10:55 RST38h, something like that Nov 22 19:10:58 Krisse Juorunen Nov 22 19:11:03 _update()? Nov 22 19:11:06 Easier than what? Nov 22 19:11:08 qwerty: yea! Nov 22 19:11:24 In related news, I should be recieving my cyberstalking license soon Nov 22 19:11:28 ah gdk_window_invalidate_rect() Nov 22 19:12:12 qwerty: No until you start guessing people postal addresses by their nicks! Nov 22 19:12:15 * ShadowJK wonders if that name is real Nov 22 19:12:22 lardman: gtk_widget_queue_draw(). Nov 22 19:12:39 ah, cool, thanks Nov 22 19:12:50 ShadowJK: It sounds Finnish enough =) Nov 22 19:12:54 * qwerty12_N900 hides Nov 22 19:13:39 Yes, but morphing normal words into names is easy in finnish :) Nov 22 19:14:52 blah. this is starting to drive me nuts Nov 22 19:15:01 can anybody here try to connect to a vpn for me? Nov 22 19:15:33 it seems to connect and tries to verify the username/pw then loses it :( Nov 22 19:16:13 going to have to do something drastic Nov 22 19:16:44 like....stop trying to run it? =) Nov 22 19:16:58 does anyone know how i would save a sequence of yuv frames (in memory) into an avi perhaps using compression Nov 22 19:17:08 can gstreamer cope with this kind of thing? Nov 22 19:19:52 lcuk: I have a script for that Nov 22 19:20:40 luke-jr, mind digging it out? Nov 22 19:20:46 Jaffa: Krisse is a Finnish female name, either real name or nick name for Kristiina Nov 22 19:20:55 Ahha! Nov 22 19:21:14 So, assuming Kristie from now on Nov 22 19:22:48 lcuk: | yuvtoppm ... | ppmtoy4m ... | mpeg2enc ... Nov 22 19:22:53 lcuk: tweak as desired Nov 22 19:23:26 And, btw, mpeg is lossy Nov 22 19:23:42 Jaffa, http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/8630/jaffaeatinganddrinkingg.jpg Nov 22 19:23:48 * lcuk ponders a way to redirect live yuv screen out to a stream and running thos Nov 22 19:23:54 RST38h, dont really care Nov 22 19:24:04 thanks luke-jr Nov 22 19:24:05 crashanddie: Notice the characteristic red eyes Nov 22 19:24:06 lcuk: for AVI, I just feed a PNG format into ffmpeg Nov 22 19:24:15 crashanddie: He is definitely looking for the next victim Nov 22 19:24:17 Jaffa, I really don't want to trouble you, but that's not retouched, and with the red eyes, and the glowing drink, you could be in Merlin Nov 22 19:25:34 RST38h, or maybe he was looking at one of the nokia chicks, or waitresses, or community chicks Nov 22 19:25:39 cuz damn, the selection was fine Nov 22 19:25:45 luke-jr, compressing a new png image every frame takes > 0.5seconds Nov 22 19:25:56 i wanted realtime or nearly recording Nov 22 19:26:07 so flat yuv is simplest Nov 22 19:26:10 crash; Does their blood taste any different? Nov 22 19:26:21 crashanddie, you lie Nov 22 19:26:25 lcuk: ffmpeg might take it Nov 22 19:26:28 lcuk, I do? Nov 22 19:26:29 it was you that were eying them up Nov 22 19:26:38 lcuk, no, I got phone numbers, different thing Nov 22 19:26:44 lcuk: ffmpeg lists yuv4mpeg pipe format Nov 22 19:26:48 And I had dinner with the waitress the other night Nov 22 19:27:02 well, if kebab after hours is considered as dinner Nov 22 19:27:02 GeneralAntilles: so, http://viper.haque.net/~timeless/blog/164/ is up Nov 22 19:27:16 lol Nov 22 19:27:32 luke-jr, cool ill have a dig see if i can push out frames Nov 22 19:28:54 Stskeeps: hey :D Nov 22 19:29:00 evening PaulFertser Nov 22 19:29:03 how is it going? Nov 22 19:29:09 Stskeeps: i came back with good news, not useless talks as usual :) Nov 22 19:29:19 Stskeeps: got Debian working after solving few issues. Nov 22 19:29:32 cool Nov 22 19:29:34 Stskeeps: i hope you had a nice weekend too :) Nov 22 19:29:44 what was the issue? Nov 22 19:30:06 Stskeeps: really, when i argue it's not to offend or something, i really appreciate the work all you honest guys do :D Nov 22 19:30:19 PaulFertser: yeah yeah, let's stick to the technical stuff :) Nov 22 19:31:33 Stskeeps: the first and main issue is initramfs compatibility with 2.6.30 kernel. Major number for mmcblk0 was changed, which obviously produced strange and unexpected problems due to static device nodes in initramfs. Nov 22 19:31:45 right, we normally call it initfs Nov 22 19:31:53 and yes, that'd do some problems Nov 22 19:32:26 PaulFertser: should have been expected Nov 22 19:32:29 nothing newsworthy there Nov 22 19:32:32 Stskeeps: very dire problems i'd say since it's kind of hard to debug without any good feedback whatsoever, i needed to compile a kernel with a framebuffer. Nov 22 19:32:51 PaulFertser: you should be compiling your kernel w/ a fb anyway :P Nov 22 19:33:00 PaulFertser: the evdev stuff changed too IIRC Nov 22 19:33:07 so I bet you couldn't use arrow keys there Nov 22 19:33:33 luke-jr: hm, i hoped that the recent initfs is supposed to be compatible with the latest kernels. And yes, keys do not work but i didn't bother, just waited for timeout. Nov 22 19:33:51 PaulFertser: the good news is that initfs can be skipped. Nov 22 19:34:02 or modified. Nov 22 19:34:03 PaulFertser: sure, depending on what you mean by "recent" Nov 22 19:34:29 lp:~luke-jr/+junk/n8x0-bootmenu-autodetect-evdev <-- branch of bootmenu that fixes the keyboard issue Nov 22 19:34:44 Stskeeps: when i skipped initfs, i got the device powered off in a minute, so special care should be taken to start all those caring daemons. Nov 22 19:34:46 lp:~luke-jr/+junk/n8x0-bootmenu-kexec <-- bootmenu w/ kexec support (untested) Nov 22 19:34:52 PaulFertser: YES Nov 22 19:34:53 err, yes Nov 22 19:35:07 luke-jr: and why didn't you submit those patches? :P Nov 22 19:35:18 Stskeeps: I pushed them to LP and told someone on IRC Nov 22 19:35:21 that's how I submit stuff Nov 22 19:35:22 <.< Nov 22 19:35:26 Stskeeps: another problem is that initfs assumes that initramfs is mounted rw which wasn't true for my kernel. Nov 22 19:35:50 PaulFertser: isn't that more of a mistake in your kernel? Nov 22 19:35:57 PaulFertser: err, initramfs is usually read-only Nov 22 19:36:09 IIRC, most of the time it's squashfs Nov 22 19:36:15 Stskeeps: other minor issues with debian included a segfaulting plugin in ts.conf, slightly wrong xorg.conf i copied from somewhere, missing pointercal, stuff like that. Nov 22 19:36:46 PaulFertser: yeah, that initfs is mounted rw? that's new Nov 22 19:36:51 we should do some security auditing Nov 22 19:36:54 timeless_mbp: i assume, no. It's common to mount root ro by default. And on n810 it's not actually initramfs, rather a NAND partition with jffs2 on it. Nov 22 19:36:59 PaulFertser: I suggest you read over our Gentoo stuff Nov 22 19:37:18 * timeless_mbp frowns Nov 22 19:37:27 i'm thirsty, but i'm not sure i'm hungry enough to get dinner Nov 22 19:37:29 Stskeeps: there's some "cp /mnt/new_root/linuxrc /tmp/linuxrc" which didn't work with initfs mounted ro. Nov 22 19:37:30 nice, I just saw cali reviewing n900 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3z8YCzb0vI Nov 22 19:37:31 but i have to decide _now_ Nov 22 19:37:41 PaulFertser: ah, no, but /tmp is a tmpfs Nov 22 19:37:43 PaulFertser: /tmp is tmpfs Nov 22 19:37:47 luke-jr: thanks for the suggestion Nov 22 19:37:54 ! Nov 22 19:38:00 why is slonopotamus.org down :( Nov 22 19:38:42 luke-jr: well, that means it's probably in error either in my kernel (compiled without tmpfs) or lack of /etc/fstab on initfs for whatever reason or something like that. Anyway i do not see a reason to copy linuxrc from new_root anywhere, i think it can be started from there as well. Nov 22 19:39:01 PaulFertser: I don't think initfs uses fstab Nov 22 19:39:46 luke-jr: i wasn't in the mood to investigate that thouroughly given i lack serial console anyway. I just modified the script to exec /mnt/new_root/linuxrc, it worked "like a charm". Nov 22 19:42:33 luke-jr: (branch with evdev fixes) thanks. As a sidenote i do not understand why anyone might want to use bazaar when there's git and mercurial ;) Nov 22 19:43:38 PaulFertser: Bazaar is easier, since it fits with the historical RCS syntax for commands Nov 22 19:43:50 also, git's support for subversion repositories is crap Nov 22 19:44:39 hello Nov 22 19:44:51 git needs proper windows integration Nov 22 19:44:55 luke-jr: i tried git-svn and liked it tbh. And in bazaar it's not obvious how to do something like "git format-patch" to send a plain-text readable e-mail etc. Git seems to be so much more flexible, you can use it any way you like. Nov 22 19:44:58 PaulFertser: so, what is not working in your kernel snapshot? Nov 22 19:45:04 you guys probably already saw this, this is rediculous, http://maemoproject.com/ Nov 22 19:45:19 crashanddie: who uses Windows? Nov 22 19:45:20 and git needs a web-based management system allowing the setup of new repos, that are available directly online Nov 22 19:45:26 luke-jr, my whole company? Nov 22 19:45:34 yigal, perfectly normal day i nthe life of the n900 Nov 22 19:45:35 Stskeeps: i'll know soon. For today my task was to start debian and now my friend is going to have some struggles on his own. Nov 22 19:45:37 PaulFertser: git assumes you just want to import from subversion Nov 22 19:45:40 it generates it own stuff all the time Nov 22 19:45:44 yigal: Yes, we saw it. There are 250+ varieties of mushrooms in the Finland forests. Nov 22 19:45:55 :) Nov 22 19:45:58 PaulFertser: bzr diff <-- outputs a patch Nov 22 19:46:03 luke-jr: no, git-svn allows for comfortable two-way communication with svn. I used it myself. Nov 22 19:46:14 luke-jr: git diff <- outputs a patch Nov 22 19:47:03 that isn't quite the same thing as format-patch, which outputs a patch series, or git send-email which sends it to your favourite mailing list for reviewal Nov 22 19:47:07 probably one of the best slashdot comments ever: http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=3291&cid=1395315 Nov 22 19:47:09 luke-jr: yes, but what if you want to send an e-mail that has description, commit message and patch and is directly applicable with "git am"? I tried to do the same with bazaar but couldn't find a way, somewhere it's written that it's not desired function. Nov 22 19:47:15 PaulFertser: bzr-svn is completely transparent; you almost never notice the other end is Subversion Nov 22 19:47:25 luke-jr: same with git-svn i think Nov 22 19:47:45 PaulFertser: it's not desired, as such a method inherently loses a lot of info Nov 22 19:47:47 * Stskeeps ponders idly that most people favour turning maemo.org into a non-profit foundation/company on http://maemo.org/community/brainstorm/view/open_source_software_distributed_via_store-ovi-com/ Nov 22 19:48:02 :/ Nov 22 19:48:17 luke-jr: with git it does not lose any info, because the patch files it outputs retain all the commit data Nov 22 19:48:20 PaulFertser: better to send a repo to merge Nov 22 19:48:36 don't leave your n900 charging overnight. this is hte second time I've gone to sleep with it nearly done charging, and woken up with it totally dead and refusing to charge Nov 22 19:48:37 luke-jr: yet in the "git world" this method works quite good, especially with the mailing lists. Nov 22 19:48:45 ali1234: it doesn't Nov 22 19:48:53 luke-jr: what information does it lose? Nov 22 19:48:59 ali1234: merge information? Nov 22 19:49:10 luke-jr: no, it doesn't Nov 22 19:49:22 anyhow, git and bzr are both nice Nov 22 19:49:32 git just has a learning curve, whereas bzr is more user friendly Nov 22 19:49:42 i will agree with that Nov 22 19:49:52 i didn't like git until about 3 months after i started using it Nov 22 19:49:59 then it clicked Nov 22 19:50:15 Chani: Never happened here Nov 22 19:50:24 I'm disappointed that not even git supports proper cherry picking Nov 22 19:50:53 anyway, when you merge on git, you get a commit merge, unless there was no merge conflicts. that commit will appear in an exported patch series, preserving the merge info Nov 22 19:51:08 and, git cherry-pick has always worked fine for me Nov 22 19:52:05 ali1234: when I had to cherry-pick with git, it didn't act like it saved ANY metainformation, except a revision ID in the log message Nov 22 19:52:20 I can only imagine if I did merging now it would have issues Nov 22 19:52:21 So it seems bazaar wants to impose its understanding of the "best practicies" on you while git gives you complete freedom and transparency of operations. Nov 22 19:52:38 * javispedro ponders why "Fixing Ovi" is not a solution in that brainstorm item. Nov 22 19:52:59 PaulFertser: I use bzr-svn on a regular basis with my work Nov 22 19:53:06 Mhm. Poor krisse is really pissed now... Nov 22 19:53:07 I do wish git would automatically record what branch something came from Nov 22 19:53:08 luke-jr: so did i with git-svn ;) Nov 22 19:53:25 javispedro: suggest it? Nov 22 19:53:33 RST38h: Oh noez! Will she storm off again?! Nov 22 19:53:33 What have you done to krisse, you elitist technopigs?!? Nov 22 19:53:36 Chani, it will just have to deal with it, i doubt n900 would last much beyond breakfast for me if it wasn't on charger during night Nov 22 19:53:51 Chani: the hash records that info: from the hash you can see where it came from with git show Nov 22 19:54:11 * RST38h ponders on the proper translation for the word "ozalupit'" Nov 22 19:54:31 damp dragon Nov 22 19:54:58 ali1234: really? hmm, i've dcommitted everything now so I can't check Nov 22 19:55:31 the only thing that really screws up the history is git rebase Nov 22 19:55:53 git show on a git-svn commit just shows the log and the diff. Nov 22 19:56:06 Stskeeps: I will but then I will vote it down :) Nov 22 19:56:40 * Chani yawns Nov 22 19:56:56 * JosefAssad wonders how massive any maemo foundation liability coverage would be Nov 22 19:57:16 Stskeeps: is it considered important for Mer to fully support 2.6.30 kernel? Nov 22 19:57:39 PaulFertser: getting newer kernels is a plus for all inhabitations of the ecosystem. Nov 22 19:57:50 Stskeeps: it's obvious Nov 22 19:57:58 Stskeeps: but is it one of the "immediate targets"? Nov 22 19:58:07 PaulFertser: yes, i hate being stuck at this kernel version Nov 22 19:58:20 Stskeeps: how goes gpsdriver code? :p Nov 22 19:58:28 luke-jr: ask me in december Nov 22 19:58:33 ok Nov 22 19:58:37 right now we're not going to 2.6.30 cos some things are broken and i'm not sure WLAN driver supports PSM Nov 22 19:58:38 crashanddie: I AM MEEEERRLIN. Stskeeps should bow before me. Nov 22 19:58:40 which is essential Nov 22 20:00:00 Jaffa, i'd say we're starting to have some pretty compelling evidence that you're not human Nov 22 20:00:00 http://www.flickr.com/photos/slauwers/4001322448/ Nov 22 20:00:14 crashanddie: sub-human sounds about right. Nov 22 20:00:32 bowing, transfer of scrolls, targeting unsuspecting victims, drinking liquid gold... Nov 22 20:00:34 un-human is the correct specification Nov 22 20:00:51 as in enemy to everything humans stand for =) Nov 22 20:01:32 Stskeeps: yep, the the power consumption that n810 shows with the stock kernel and maemo is just unbelievably impressive. Nov 22 20:01:46 you and the General, two enemies of the humankind... Nov 22 20:02:13 :) PaulFertser you have comparisons? Nov 22 20:02:39 qwerty12_N900: you about? Nov 22 20:02:48 alterego: yessir Nov 22 20:02:58 pupnik_: all other devices i know use suspend2ram, so it's not directly comparable with zero-clock and extensive PSM support all over the place in n810. Nov 22 20:03:03 Do you need to do antything to let me be the maintainer of the ruby stuff?@ Nov 22 20:03:26 alterego: I'd have thought a change of the name would be enough? Nov 22 20:03:34 Maybe this stuff takes time. Nov 22 20:03:44 No, there's someting in the promotion interface that keeps it. Nov 22 20:04:21 I might ask whoever to clear ruby from all the repos so I can upload the stuff from scratch. Nov 22 20:06:04 how about we don't put ruby in the repos? Nov 22 20:06:09 Just delete it and blacklist it Nov 22 20:06:14 Why? Nov 22 20:06:19 What would that acheive? Nov 22 20:06:26 NO RUBY Nov 22 20:06:33 erhm Nov 22 20:06:37 m'hmm Nov 22 20:06:38 I just found my fake police ID card Nov 22 20:06:58 crashanddie: From your stripping days? :p Nov 22 20:07:06 qwerty12_N900, not really Nov 22 20:07:18 qwerty12_N900, from working with the police (i won't say which one), for their smartcards Nov 22 20:07:28 Hehe Nov 22 20:07:35 we had to do some tests, so we quickly designed some layout for the cards, took pictures, added info and printed Nov 22 20:07:51 thing is, the layout is like 90% the same as what they're using now Nov 22 20:08:01 Stskeeps: wouldn't it be nice to have all the necessary daemons started from rootfs rather than from initfs? And also i'm afraid some of them are compiled for OABI. Nov 22 20:08:35 I don't have the nice shiny 3d film on the card, nor the certificates, but still Nov 22 20:08:53 PaulFertser: nah, they're not Nov 22 20:10:59 PaulFertser: but they're built for uclibc Nov 22 20:11:11 Stskeeps: i think i saw some error about OABI during boot of initfs so i enabled OABI_COMPAT, i think i can run readelf on all initfs binaries when i get access to the device again. Nov 22 20:11:30 it's always good to support oabi i guess Nov 22 20:12:11 Stskeeps: why? Nov 22 20:12:18 http://naurunappula.com/520667 Nov 22 20:12:32 Stskeeps: to run obsolete binary-only stuff? i'm not going into this discussion again ;) Nov 22 20:13:08 PaulFertser: i think error may be from uclibc built with oabi support? dunno Nov 22 20:13:25 grrr :( Nov 22 20:15:06 Stskeeps: i think always requiring initfs to start daemons is not exactly common way anyway and might be confusing for the newcomers. Nov 22 20:15:23 PaulFertser: you need tricks on these devices. Nov 22 20:16:47 Stskeeps: i think if you run the daemons early in the boot process when you start /sbin/init directly it'd be still ok. Nov 22 20:16:55 PaulFertser: that's what some do, yeah Nov 22 20:17:02 like a init=/linuxrc or something Nov 22 20:19:59 the internet is just getting crippled right now Nov 22 20:20:50 dude made a fielf Nov 22 20:21:26 dude made a field-of-view patch for bioshock. they apparently got it removed from the net? Nov 22 20:21:51 Stskeeps: (/linuxrc) it's still too hackish imho, i think many embedded platforms run without additional scripts. Nov 22 20:22:42 PaulFertser: yes, but n8x0 isn't a typical one. either way, your port, your choice Nov 22 20:23:49 Stskeeps: i can't see what makes n8x0 that different from others. Most devices are equipped with a watchdog of some kind and require initialisation of other devices on boot. Nov 22 20:26:39 Can anyone please tell me how is internal SD card connected on n810? I'm wondering what kernel option should i enable for it to work. Nov 22 20:27:05 Anyone here ever had to become a maintainer of a package that already had a maintainer in the maemo5 extras promotional interface? Nov 22 20:27:32 I'm clicking on the "become maintainer" link but nothing seems to happen after I follow that process. Nov 22 20:27:41 oh, it worked for me a few weeks ago :P Nov 22 20:27:57 javispedro: did the process take any time? Nov 22 20:28:04 Or was it instantaneous? Nov 22 20:28:10 alterego: why not add your name to the maintainers line inside the package itself? Nov 22 20:28:12 instantaneous and without confirmation :P Nov 22 20:28:22 RST38h: already done Nov 22 20:28:22 won't that make maemo.org guess you as the second maintainer? Nov 22 20:28:32 my guess is that everything is dead Nov 22 20:28:38 wasn't the autobuilder broken a few hours ago? Nov 22 20:28:42 yep Nov 22 20:28:45 We need you, Niels! Nov 22 20:28:59 PaulFertser: as mmc.. :P Nov 22 20:29:08 yeah, he's out for a few weeks and everything break. Nov 22 20:29:09 Stskeeps: omap-mmc? That's for external. Nov 22 20:29:13 That is not normal btw. X-Fade leaves for vacation and hell breaks loose Nov 22 20:29:35 He's been gone ages :( Nov 22 20:34:12 qwerty12 already owns the N901! Nov 22 20:34:27 you should configure your client to use N910 or N920 instead of N901 Nov 22 20:34:41 this way you'll bring panic to the masses every time :) Nov 22 20:34:42 "N666" =) Nov 22 20:35:11 EvilQwerty_N666 Nov 22 20:39:44 PaulFertser: on n800 both the mmc slots are running off mmci-omap Nov 22 20:40:18 ali1234: i see, thanks a lot Nov 22 20:40:53 that's the /sys platform driver name Nov 22 20:42:10 it does appear to be the same thing as omap-mmc Nov 22 20:42:35 ali1234: i understand Nov 22 20:42:52 ali1234: now i read the code and i see it's multi-slot driver, with 2 slots specified for n800/n810. Nov 22 20:42:59 ali1234: thanks again :) Nov 22 20:47:40 Isn't N901 an ASUS? =) Nov 22 20:52:08 RST38h: IIRC that's M900 Nov 22 20:54:26 this is incredibly annoying. i flashed my device but as the -devel and -testing repos refuse to work I can't re-add a lot of apps Nov 22 20:54:37 I guess i'm going to manually download the debs and install that way Nov 22 20:54:59 so KMFDM what's up with the repos? Nov 22 20:56:43 http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/dists/freemantle/free/binary-armel/Packages 404 not found [ip: 92.122.188.49 80] Nov 22 20:57:00 i get the same thing for non-free and on extras-testing free and non-free Nov 22 20:57:24 KMFDM: fremantle; not freemantle Nov 22 20:57:45 speaking of freemantl, Stskeeps what happened to it lol Nov 22 20:57:50 freemantle Nov 22 21:00:01 qwerty12_N900: so um Nov 22 21:00:04 zenity showed me something Nov 22 21:00:08 but the theming was odd Nov 22 21:00:15 do i need something magical to get standard theming? Nov 22 21:00:25 root? Nov 22 21:00:29 yeah i'm root Nov 22 21:00:38 run-standalone.sh zenity Nov 22 21:01:47 oh ffs Nov 22 21:01:58 landlord is in living room, and iplayer is down Nov 22 21:02:03 can't watch top gear :( Nov 22 21:02:31 crashanddie: Join me in grabbing it off a torrent later Nov 22 21:02:45 http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbctwo/watchlive/ Nov 22 21:02:46 w00t Nov 22 21:17:47 Hey, who's surprised, rcadden is being silly. Nov 22 21:18:43 Oh, screw krisse. Nov 22 21:18:59 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=386138 Nov 22 21:21:07 http://zchydem.enume.net/?p=149 <=== Symbian/S60 people brought their "goodies" to Harmatan Nov 22 21:21:15 Be afraid. Be very afraid. Nov 22 21:21:30 I am afraid already... Nov 22 21:21:52 Thank god, m6 devices will use a capacitive screen so deciding will be easy. Nov 22 21:22:00 every time I see that class diagram, I get really afraid Nov 22 21:22:50 and what's amatter with MVC? :P Nov 22 21:23:25 overengeneered to hell Nov 22 21:31:26 Hi, I need to know my n770 identification number, I've remove the back cap, the battery an the label that is supossed to give the ID is not present Nov 22 21:31:40 how can I get my device WLAN Identification number? Nov 22 21:31:57 you want the mac address? Nov 22 21:32:20 no no, I need the identification number in order to upgrade my OS. Nov 22 21:32:29 I suspect those have always been shown in settings -> about Nov 22 21:32:30 nokia site is requesting it Nov 22 21:32:31 it's on the sticker under the battery Nov 22 21:32:57 yeah, he wants the MAC address Nov 22 21:33:07 no, on n900 mac is not used Nov 22 21:33:11 oh wait Nov 22 21:33:14 there's no sticker Nov 22 21:33:15 n770 Nov 22 21:33:55 g3r0n1m0, read http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_770.php Nov 22 21:33:58 The only thing I can get there is the mac Nov 22 21:34:09 that's what you want. Nov 22 21:34:46 there is no such thing like n770 Nov 22 21:35:00 there is only zuul Nov 22 21:35:06 gracias Nov 22 21:35:07 s/zuul/xul/ Nov 22 21:35:07 sp3000 meant: there is only xul Nov 22 21:35:09 When people are pulling out John Swift, you know there's been a communication issue. Nov 22 21:36:03 hmm dropbear doesn't force a root passwd change Nov 22 21:36:32 Is tere a default ssh password? Nov 22 21:36:37 rootme Nov 22 21:36:40 (wrt the iphone virus) Nov 22 21:36:45 account is disabled though Nov 22 21:36:45 indeed Nov 22 21:36:52 nope Nov 22 21:36:54 I mean - taking into account the iphone virus Nov 22 21:36:56 even it has to be checked if dropbear cares about it Nov 22 21:37:01 openssh does Nov 22 21:37:21 I could have bypassed something I guess Nov 22 21:37:31 since I did a restore settings from a backup Nov 22 21:37:35 I might believe dropbear not caring about disabled accounts, Nov 22 21:37:45 i installed dropbear on n800 a couple of hours ago and no password prompt either Nov 22 21:37:54 but at least on n810 root account has ! as first char in passwd entry Nov 22 21:39:32 ok Nov 22 21:39:37 so theoretically no password will ever match. Nov 22 21:39:41 Unless you're in RD-Mode :) Nov 22 21:39:43 anyone want to be my debian build script friend? Nov 22 21:40:10 * GeneralAntilles takes a second swing at the bugzilla insanity. Nov 22 21:40:44 ? Nov 22 21:41:02 timeless_mbp, krisse pulled out John Swift for my 95% quote. Nov 22 21:42:02 hmm, it also truncates the password at 8 chars Nov 22 21:43:05 it==? Nov 22 21:43:10 probably requires an upgrade Nov 22 21:43:21 iirc a newer bugzilla supports non whichever limited passwords Nov 22 21:43:35 I just flashed the retail fiasco Nov 22 21:43:46 probably not using shadow then Nov 22 21:43:57 and typing 'passwd' at the prompt says 5-8 chars Nov 22 21:43:57 has anyone here ever heard of John Connor? Nov 22 21:44:02 no, not using shadow Nov 22 21:44:08 * javispedro would never use password login in n8x0 Nov 22 21:50:13 hello all Nov 22 21:50:32 so, n900 is awesome Nov 22 21:50:41 paroneayea: no, it sucks. Nov 22 21:50:50 get an iphone. Nov 22 21:50:51 SpeedEvil: :P Nov 22 21:51:00 paroneayea, NYC/Chicago? Nov 22 21:51:02 what's an n900? Nov 22 21:51:09 GeneralAntilles: yeah, picked mine up here in chicago Nov 22 21:51:10 android is so much better. Nov 22 21:51:11 yesterday Nov 22 21:51:11 * SpeedEvil cannot comment about its awesomeness, not having had one delivered yet. Nov 22 21:51:21 doc|home, I think it's an Android something or other. Nov 22 21:51:23 * SpeedEvil looks at nokia.co.uk, and clicks refresh Nov 22 21:51:28 GeneralAntilles: oh? lame Nov 22 21:51:32 doc|home, or maybe the new iPhone. Nov 22 21:51:35 lamer Nov 22 21:51:43 iphone? no android! Nov 22 21:51:54 dealbreaker! Nov 22 21:51:55 I'm trying to figure out what kind of data/power cable this is so I can get extras. Nov 22 21:51:56 javispedro, or maybe it's Apple switching to Android. Nov 22 21:51:56 * doc|home stabs canadian telcos Nov 22 21:52:09 paroneayea, yes, indeed, it's a pretty kickin' device. Nov 22 21:52:13 paroneayea, microUSB. Nov 22 21:52:15 thus far anyway, it seems as hackable as advertised Nov 22 21:52:20 GeneralAntilles: excellent, thanks :) Nov 22 21:52:26 paroneayea, Amazon sells official cables for all of about $0.60. Nov 22 21:52:44 parasight, the AC-10U power adapter is, unfortunately, still a bit pricey (~$17). Nov 22 21:52:47 GeneralAntilles: haha, great, thanks. nokia sells them for about.. 60 Nov 22 21:52:51 paroneayea: impressions so far? What sort of user are you? Nov 22 21:52:52 dollars :P Nov 22 21:53:00 SpeedEvil: well I'm a programmer Nov 22 21:53:01 But I picked up 4 microUSB cables for all of about $9 with shipping. Nov 22 21:53:11 so I've barely gotten time to hack it yet but Nov 22 21:53:19 it wasn't hard to get root access on the thing Nov 22 21:53:32 paroneayea, the first really open mainstream phone. ;) Nov 22 21:53:33 and installing python was as easy as apt-get install python Nov 22 21:53:42 GeneralAntilles: indeed, I got two, one for myself and my wife Nov 22 21:53:45 who is a non-hacker Nov 22 21:53:50 and we are *both* extremely pleased. Nov 22 21:54:43 the ui is much slicker than the videos even show I think. It is really gorgeous and shows off what can be done w/ technology that's pretty close to what on a free software desktop Nov 22 21:54:56 unlike a terrible android self-contained universe :) Nov 22 21:55:00 Hooray for not running a Java VM! Nov 22 21:55:04 yeah no shit Nov 22 21:55:15 overall it's exceeded expectations in all ways thus far Nov 22 21:55:20 and my expectations were pretty high Nov 22 21:55:33 the main issue I'm having now is that it doesn't have an alt key Nov 22 21:55:38 paroneayea, plus Nokia has vaguely open governance, a public bugzilla and a history of supporting open source. Nov 22 21:55:45 which sounds silly but I plan to port emacs to it :) Nov 22 21:55:54 qemacs is already there.. Nov 22 21:55:55 i think Nov 22 21:56:01 really? hm Nov 22 21:56:02 paroneayea, um, consider subscribing to maemo-developers. Nov 22 21:56:19 paroneayea, and emacs has been ported to Maemo since version 1. Nov 22 21:56:20 http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_mailing_lists Nov 22 21:56:26 GeneralAntilles: oh neat Nov 22 21:56:32 qole is working on getting key rebindings working properly. Nov 22 21:56:37 yes I guess I should Nov 22 21:56:39 that's awesome Nov 22 21:56:40 I'd like to add tab and pipe myself. Nov 22 21:56:52 I think there's some HAL silliness involved. Nov 22 21:57:05 As the stuff that worked on Maemo 4 isn't working now. Nov 22 21:57:10 (xmodmap, etc.) Nov 22 21:57:14 I can't let you have the pipe, Dave. Nov 22 21:57:34 (sound of heavy breathing) Nov 22 21:57:47 I was thinking of seeing if I could map function+one of the arrow keys to alt Nov 22 21:57:54 those don't seem to be mapped to anything Nov 22 21:58:05 and maybe function + one of the others to pipe Nov 22 21:58:10 No, fn on the arrow keys, backspace and return is free. Nov 22 21:58:18 Shift-Fn is free on everything. Nov 22 21:58:25 save for the internal layouts. dammit! Nov 22 21:58:26 aha Nov 22 21:58:33 paroneayea, two goodies: Nov 22 21:58:33 s/internal/international Nov 22 21:58:42 ctrl-shift-x opens the XTerm from anywhere. Nov 22 21:58:48 and ctrl-shift-p takes a screenshot. Nov 22 21:58:54 noted! Nov 22 21:58:56 thanks :) Nov 22 22:01:22 GeneralAntilles: so is this the way to go for mapping the keyboard? http://maemo.org/community/maemo-users/mapping_the_n900_keyboard/ Nov 22 22:01:57 I unsubbed from -users at least 18 months ago, so I dunno. ;) Nov 22 22:02:03 * GeneralAntilles recommends avoiding that particular list. Nov 22 22:02:13 * GeneralAntilles waits for the page to load. Nov 22 22:02:58 yeah, I could see that being quite noisy Nov 22 22:03:11 There's a lot of Android and iPhone people on there, too. ;) Nov 22 22:03:17 oh, that's helpful Nov 22 22:03:24 do i want to know why they're on there? Nov 22 22:03:29 As a side note, maemo.org is getting a server upgrade RSN. Nov 22 22:03:56 timeless_mbp, why people like that insist on hanging around and trolling communities they have no reason to be a part of is a question I'd really like an answer to. Nov 22 22:04:56 qwerty12_N900: um Nov 22 22:04:58 it didn't work? Nov 22 22:05:14 oh Nov 22 22:05:17 it kinda did Nov 22 22:05:18 ouch Nov 22 22:05:20 that's *bad* Nov 22 22:05:26 so um, that sucks Nov 22 22:05:36 the uninstall and install both warn about the reboot Nov 22 22:06:27 You're using zenity to warn about something in a postinst? Just use maemo-confirm-text, or do what I did and just popup a HildonBanner Nov 22 22:06:40 i want to ask about rebooting Nov 22 22:06:54 Ah Nov 22 22:06:55 i need to not do it from there Nov 22 22:06:59 the problem is... Nov 22 22:07:06 i'm not really sure where to do it Nov 22 22:07:15 there are at least 3 cases: Nov 22 22:07:20 1. installing the package for the first time Nov 22 22:07:24 2. uninstalling the package Nov 22 22:07:29 3. using the control panel applet Nov 22 22:07:34 4. upgrading the package Nov 22 22:08:10 in 3, the control panel could manage to warn about the reboot Nov 22 22:08:21 in 1 and 2, the package needs to do the reboot Nov 22 22:09:05 in 4, i need to offer, but only once Nov 22 22:10:22 just put the warning in every dialog :P Nov 22 22:12:40 ooh, I'm subscribed to -users Nov 22 22:12:47 11k unread, hmm Nov 22 22:12:59 that's not working so well ;) Nov 22 22:14:30 God/Nokia, why the hell are the default feeds in the RSS Reader Twitter ones? Nov 22 22:15:12 To show that updating works? >:) Nov 22 22:15:36 I miss BBC World News from Maemo 4 :( Nov 22 22:16:41 (Yes, I should stop being a drama queen but I've already typed in that feed's URL 7 times now) Nov 22 22:18:59 actually what I'm cusrious about is whether it's possible to enumerate the 1st 3rd and 4th levels in the kb mapping without touching the second Nov 22 22:19:10 * GeneralAntilles hopes that clears things up a bit. Nov 22 22:19:14 for the shift-arrows selection reason Nov 22 22:19:53 oh, that's interesting Nov 22 22:19:59 http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=385315&postcount=1 Nov 22 22:20:07 The next device, running Harmattan, will feature a capacitive, multi-touch, WVGA (800x480) screen. The core of Maemo 6, useful for testing, will be installable on N900, although it won't be fully functional (hardware difference). Nov 22 22:23:41 nice to see they're going out of the way to provide it somehow Nov 22 22:24:12 * mgedmin wants to complain about ukeyboard 2.0-6 being non-installable Nov 22 22:24:39 Stskeeps: Well, if they did not, the torrent of anti-Nokia comments would be well deserved Nov 22 22:24:40 mgedmin: i already did Nov 22 22:24:45 they're going to fix it Nov 22 22:24:46 good Nov 22 22:24:53 I can't believe Nokia doesn't get that dropping support every year or so isn't a good business plan. Nov 22 22:25:09 timeless_mbp, just to make sure, it's the "/var/lib/dpkg/info/ukeyboard.postinst: line 21: rename: not found" bug, right? Nov 22 22:25:18 no Nov 22 22:25:27 my bug was the find -exec problem Nov 22 22:25:38 heh, *two* bugs, what fun! Nov 22 22:25:50 they take comments in the package promotion stuff Nov 22 22:25:56 comment there and thumbs down Nov 22 22:26:01 GeneralAntilles: at least they're making support a hell lot easier to do. Nov 22 22:26:10 Stskeeps, doesn't help end users, though. Nov 22 22:26:27 i doubt there'd be a m5->m6 SSU Nov 22 22:26:31 It's just a shitty thing to do. Nov 22 22:26:33 Especially after those comments about at least 2 rounds. Nov 22 22:26:39 A flashable image is workable. Nov 22 22:26:57 Asking people to seek out a community distribution to upgrade is not. Nov 22 22:27:21 Talk has but me in an awfully bad mood this evening. Nov 22 22:27:22 why not, though? are we just admitting we're not capable? :) Nov 22 22:27:26 I doubt m5->m6 upgrade path and that post nearly confirms it. Nov 22 22:27:34 *too. Nov 22 22:27:59 Well, reinstall would be in order, I thinl. Nov 22 22:28:03 *think Nov 22 22:28:18 Upgrade to 2008 required that too, didn't it? Nov 22 22:28:45 Stskeeps, because it's a PR disaster. Nov 22 22:29:08 really though? with all the cooked roms and such out there Nov 22 22:29:43 and i don't know how long time they will support fremantle. doubt it's getting dropped at PR1.1. Nov 22 22:29:49 * timeless_mbp grumbles Nov 22 22:29:52 Because they're choosing to jettison large portions of their community for the sake of dubious "hardware" issues. Nov 22 22:30:03 They're certainly not going to support it side-by-side. Nov 22 22:30:07 "hardware issues" --> multitouch all over the interface. Nov 22 22:30:33 * timeless_mbp curse Nov 22 22:30:37 ok Nov 22 22:30:47 anyone here know where the lame Hildon Yes/No dialogs are used? Nov 22 22:30:48 javispedro, which is just inane. Nov 22 22:31:03 GeneralAntilles: not from a PR PoV. Nov 22 22:31:17 Multitouch isn't even necessary on the iPhone. Nov 22 22:31:35 gan: but we're nokia Nov 22 22:31:59 http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=386170&postcount=63 Nov 22 22:32:02 * GeneralAntilles sighs. Nov 22 22:32:05 Bottom of the signature. Nov 22 22:32:09 we require you to install a rose colored glasses filter to ignore our spelling of "Cuidad de México" :) Nov 22 22:32:23 LOL Nov 22 22:32:38 Cuidad de México means "take care of México" Nov 22 22:32:59 imperative form, second person plural Nov 22 22:33:15 s/form/mood Nov 22 22:36:04 GeneralAntilles: let them experience the feeling getting a WONTFIX in your carefully made bugreport is! Nov 22 22:36:17 s/WONTFIX/Fixed in a device you may or may not buy ;) Nov 22 22:36:51 hm Nov 22 22:36:58 going to install win7 on one of my boxes Nov 22 22:37:17 i honestly should install debian or something on it.. but meh.. i need something that can run mediaportal Nov 22 22:37:30 i should try out mythtv.. never bothered with it before Nov 22 22:37:53 last i tried it was total garbage :) Nov 22 22:38:09 javispedro: did you see it btw? Nov 22 22:38:17 timeless_mbp: nope Nov 22 22:38:33 can I see that on SDK? Nov 22 22:38:33 http://www.flagship.nokia.com/ Nov 22 22:38:40 it requires flash :) Nov 22 22:38:41 ah, not on device :P Nov 22 22:38:54 heh Nov 22 22:38:57 do i have to register for each package i want to upload to extras-devel? Nov 22 22:39:13 :) Nov 22 22:39:22 tbf: eh? Nov 22 22:40:08 WTF Nov 22 22:40:08 btw, does http://www.meet-your-city.com/ load for anyone? Nov 22 22:40:18 "Store is now closed, it opens at 0undefined:00 PM" Nov 22 22:40:19 there's a link to it from the bottom left of that page Nov 22 22:40:25 javispedro: lol Nov 22 22:40:27 Oops, the travel agent put me in Barcelona 7:45 Friday morning. Nov 22 22:40:32 * GeneralAntilles is going to be tired on Friday. Nov 22 22:40:55 timeless_mbp: just tried to upload a new version of glib-json, but didn't get any response from the autobuilder Nov 22 22:41:01 hmm. should try the web iface Nov 22 22:41:15 i haven't used ssh in ages Nov 22 22:41:45 poor Nokia clients in S~ao Paulo Nov 22 22:45:42 Anybody else flying out on Monday? Nov 22 22:46:58 good morning Nov 22 22:48:33 GAN900: lol... yeah, just saw the sig. Nov 22 22:50:33 zerojay, recalling, yet again, why I hate that place. Nov 22 22:51:22 timeless_mbp: my fault. generated a bad _source.changes file Nov 22 22:51:33 it didn't warn? Nov 22 22:53:11 timeless_mbp: no message from dput, no mail from autobuilder Nov 22 22:53:16 but the web interface told me Nov 22 22:56:31 * javispedro doesn't know whether to assist to the n900 presentation or first ux sessions in bcn long weekend, since there's a non nil chance I won't have touched an n900 by then. Nov 22 22:57:32 javispedro, play with somebody's on Thursday? Nov 22 22:58:12 what's going on thursday? Nov 22 22:58:48 GeneralAntilles: so, I can't seem to find any reference to an existing build of emacs for maemo 5, old builds seem to be for maemo 4? Do you know where this is? Nov 22 22:59:06 paroneayea, dunno if anybody's built it for 5 yet. Nov 22 22:59:10 ah okay Nov 22 22:59:11 However the 4 version SHOULD work. Nov 22 22:59:54 oh good lord. Nov 22 23:00:11 I got the XChat English spell checker working! Nov 22 23:00:16 say goodbye to my typos. Nov 22 23:00:17 assist is a false cognate Nov 22 23:00:18 Really? Nov 22 23:00:20 Sweet Nov 22 23:00:25 i always found that odd Nov 22 23:00:35 :) Nov 22 23:00:39 attend is the word you want :D Nov 22 23:00:47 minus "to" Nov 22 23:01:01 Flandry_: ta! Nov 22 23:01:33 my favorite false cognate is "embarassed" Nov 22 23:02:25 * javispedro remembers a popular ad about that one on TV. Nov 22 23:02:46 oh? Nov 22 23:02:54 local TV Nov 22 23:03:08 whoa Nov 22 23:03:14 assuming a significant bilingual population? Nov 22 23:03:34 paroneayea, hmm? Nov 22 23:03:49 I don't remember the details, but iirc it was aimed at the more educated layers Nov 22 23:04:01 / only has 250 mb alotted to it :) Nov 22 23:04:20 was about to see if I could install emacs on it, probably would have used up all remaining space :) Nov 22 23:04:27 specially I don't remember what was advertised, so it was definitely a bad ad ;P Nov 22 23:05:01 seems to be the case with a lot of well known ads Nov 22 23:05:28 I remember seeing an ad, about 9 years ago just before I switched to downloading tv illegally Nov 22 23:05:50 paroneayea, yeah, see /opt. Nov 22 23:06:07 paroneayea, Fremantle packages are generally designed to install to /opt (which is 2GB). Nov 22 23:06:32 weird, /opt doesn't show up when I run `df -h` Nov 22 23:06:59 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=386353#post386353 Nov 22 23:07:13 whats cool is how it resembles the n810 keyboard layout.... *sigh* Nov 22 23:07:14 /opt is a symlink Nov 22 23:07:15 paroneayea, /dev/mmcblk0p2 Nov 22 23:07:20 What Pavlov said. Nov 22 23:07:21 GeneralAntilles: aha Nov 22 23:07:22 or /home Nov 22 23:08:31 GeneralAntilles: cool, thanks :) Nov 22 23:08:41 er, thanks Pavlov :) Nov 22 23:12:09 I guess now is a good time to learn about debian packaging ;p Nov 22 23:12:14 I've been meaning to for some time. Nov 22 23:13:07 paroneayea, we've got lots of skilled packagers in the room. Nov 22 23:13:22 jeremiah, is our debmaster. http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo.org_team Nov 22 23:14:22 :) Nov 22 23:14:42 dpkg: dependency problems prevent configuration of emacs: Nov 22 23:14:42 emacs depends on libxaw7; however: Nov 22 23:14:42 Package libxaw7 is not installed. Nov 22 23:14:48 guess I should try the no-x version Nov 22 23:15:04 i gotta say, ever since someone talking here about how the 3-row is good because it reduces thumb travel and allows you to also reach the screen, i've been feeling like my Zaurus keyboard is way too spread out Nov 22 23:15:48 i've always thought of it as an awesome keyboard, but i can see the case for closer spacing on thumboard Nov 22 23:21:49 dpkg: error processing emacs_22.1-1_armel-nox.deb (--install): Nov 22 23:21:49 failed in buffer_write(fd) (9, ret=-1): backend dpkg-deb during `./usr/share/emacs/22.1/lisp/progmodes/antlr-mode.elc': No space left on device Nov 22 23:21:49 Nov 22 23:21:58 well I gues emacs tried installing to / after all :) Nov 22 23:22:13 yeah if you got a diablo .deb Nov 22 23:22:21 I mean, a pre fremantle .deb package . Nov 22 23:22:33 you'll have to get maemo-optify and run maemo-optify-deb on the .deb file Nov 22 23:22:56 or if you're building it read about maemo-optify stuff . Nov 22 23:27:09 * javispedro twitches Nov 22 23:27:21 someone saying "all applications are Qt" Nov 22 23:27:36 About what, where? Nov 22 23:28:19 about n900, some local reviewer... Nov 22 23:28:24 lol Nov 22 23:39:27 youtube comment in a video showing the older ugly N900/rover protos: "Where can I get the metal case which is in the video?" Nov 22 23:39:32 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fw-c8iHZBd4 Nov 22 23:40:38 javispedro, those are the Mozilla/Maemo Danish Weekend cases. Nov 22 23:41:49 case? or is that the actual device housing Nov 22 23:42:11 It's a case. Nov 22 23:42:25 blah Nov 22 23:42:34 Similar to the one the Adobe guy used for that unannounced Android phone during the Flash 10.1 presentation. Nov 22 23:43:17 ouch then. Nov 22 23:48:20 Is there a default root password which can be used on the n900 when executing a commad with sudo ? Nov 22 23:48:31 There's no user password Nov 22 23:48:34 install rootsh from Extras repository Nov 22 23:48:37 ^ Nov 22 23:48:37 and use sudo gainroot Nov 22 23:48:43 Well, "root" Nov 22 23:49:01 GeneralAntilles, Where does one find the Extras repository? Nov 22 23:49:32 Start Application Manager, click the menu bar, choose "Application catalogues" Nov 22 23:49:52 Thanks! Nov 22 23:49:53 I think there should already be an "Maemo Extras" entry that you have to enable first Nov 22 23:49:56 Just use the .install link here. http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/rootsh Nov 22 23:50:02 That also works :) Nov 22 23:50:20 Thanks again. Nov 22 23:50:26 Ugh, stupid Extras. Nov 22 23:50:30 er, Downloads. Nov 22 23:50:33 heh Nov 22 23:50:38 http://maemo.org/downloads/product/Maemo5/rootsh/ Nov 22 23:50:39 That Nov 22 23:50:48 Stupid search doesn't find the Maemo 5 version. Nov 22 23:52:10 nice to see that nokia stopped calling maemo differently (OS 2008 etc.) at the surface Nov 22 23:52:28 is maemo 5 based on qt? Nov 22 23:52:43 no, on gtk. Nov 22 23:52:51 maemo 6 will be based on qt Nov 22 23:53:08 wp-de claims that 5.1 will only have community supported gtk Nov 22 23:53:19 5.1? Nov 22 23:53:22 xorAxAx, the maemo (lowercase m) project was the open source part of Internet Tablet OS. Nov 22 23:53:28 xorAxAx, a great and reliable source. Nov 22 23:53:36 xorAxAx, Nokia finally decided to adopt it as their brand last year. Nov 22 23:53:45 may I quickly edit that wikipedia page to state that Maemo 4 was based on Windows Mobile? Nov 22 23:53:48 xorAxAx, yeah, they're fools. ;) Nov 22 23:53:56 andre__: i guess its just outdated :) Nov 22 23:54:02 true. yes :-) Nov 22 23:54:05 xorAxAx, nope, just plain wrong. Nov 22 23:54:10 That was never the case. Nov 22 23:54:14 people guessing stuff. wikipedia. Nov 22 23:54:35 I managed not to smoke for a week Nov 22 23:54:38 well Nov 22 23:54:38 Woo Nov 22 23:54:40 less than a week Nov 22 23:54:47 * GeneralAntilles hands crashanddie a cup of coffee. Nov 22 23:54:50 re Nov 22 23:54:52 since wednesday afternoon really Nov 22 23:54:53 how's things chaps Nov 22 23:54:54 ? Nov 22 23:55:26 but fuck it, I'm going to buy fags Nov 22 23:56:24 Can anyone think, off hand, how I should clear my non-double-buffered gtk_drawing_area after I do a screen rotate to get rid of any artefacts therein? Nov 22 23:57:52 Correctly? Nov 22 23:58:38 nah, just any old way so it doens't look like I have two sets of buttons and labels Nov 22 23:59:49 I guess I'll have to draw a big black square to it Nov 23 00:00:27 can maemo 5 sync the calendar via syncml? Nov 23 00:02:01 xorAxAx, not that I'm aware of Nov 23 00:02:18 but it can sync the contacts? Nov 23 00:02:24 thats incomplete :) Nov 23 00:09:15 hmm, apparently my rotation stuff isn't actually working Nov 23 00:10:09 how do people output debugging info when they connect to libosso? Nov 23 00:10:22 (as I can't start stuff from the command line any more) Nov 23 00:11:37 w00t, google wave invite :D Nov 23 00:12:08 so um Nov 23 00:12:12 lardman, write to a file in /tmp? Nov 23 00:12:29 anyone here see Yes/No dialogs from apps other than the browser? Nov 23 00:12:40 mgedmin: yeah, I guess so Nov 23 00:12:47 lardman, use system logger? Nov 23 00:12:53 timeless_mbp: yes, my app has them ;) Nov 23 00:12:59 crashanddie: sounds involved Nov 23 00:13:11 lardman: libosso has logging macros, actually =) Nov 23 00:13:19 really....? Nov 23 00:13:21 lardman: how broken would your app be if i changed them to OK/Cancel? Nov 23 00:13:38 "Would you like to open this URL?" Nov 23 00:13:52 probably no more broken than most Windows apps Nov 23 00:14:26 "Windows is about to delete everthing on your hard disc", "OK?" Nov 23 00:14:31 no, it's bloody not! Nov 23 00:14:32 etc Nov 23 00:14:34 :) Nov 23 00:14:41 Cancel! Nov 23 00:14:55 ah, those ones don't have any other options Nov 23 00:15:06 so they should just be informing you, rather than asking Nov 23 00:16:51 ? Nov 23 00:16:57 timeless_mbp, "delete contact|conversation" has them Nov 23 00:17:26 do you want todelete this contact on|cancel doesnt sound as clear Nov 23 00:17:29 using OK/Cancel there seems ok Nov 23 00:17:31 ok Nov 23 00:17:45 ive seen red ones too Nov 23 00:17:47 it works, but is poor English Nov 23 00:17:48 timeless_mbp: Going for the GTK stock strings? Nov 23 00:17:48 Clear all messages in this conversation? Nov 23 00:17:51 with extra emphasis Nov 23 00:17:56 qwerty12_N900: going to unbreak the browser Nov 23 00:18:01 which requires breaking hildon Nov 23 00:18:08 because the idiots Nov 23 00:18:22 forced browser to use hildon yes-now Nov 23 00:18:49 can they not fix it when they recompile rather than changing the strings? Nov 23 00:18:59 they refuse to let us fix it Nov 23 00:19:07 it's a feature-requirement Nov 23 00:19:09 who's they? Nov 23 00:19:10 coming from high-idiots Nov 23 00:19:13 ui leads Nov 23 00:19:32 feature that it has to use yes/no ? Nov 23 00:19:36 yes Nov 23 00:19:56 seems reasonable, or have they used it in the wrong places? Nov 23 00:20:03 correct Nov 23 00:20:24 well, tbh, breaking other apps is probably not the way forward Nov 23 00:20:32 so Nov 23 00:20:52 codechange Nov 23 00:21:02 does maemo use gtk or qt? Nov 23 00:21:05 bugs against the browser? Nov 23 00:21:18 diegoviola: gtk atm, qt for the next version Nov 23 00:21:20 i can't make the code change because management requires us to allow the ui designers to dictate how the browser should work Nov 23 00:21:30 lardman: nice Nov 23 00:21:52 diegoviola: in fact with be both for the next version, but moving to qt Nov 23 00:21:59 even though the dialog is used by web pages Nov 23 00:22:00 not directly timeless, but lardman is right, just file this one as a bug Nov 23 00:22:01 like google mail Nov 23 00:22:02 and you can also use qt now if you want Nov 23 00:22:06 lcuk: it is filed Nov 23 00:22:09 and wontfixed Nov 23 00:22:11 lardman: nice, qt is better Nov 23 00:22:12 (Repatedly) Nov 23 00:22:19 even though each localization has complained Nov 23 00:22:22 timeless_mbp: what's the #? Nov 23 00:22:27 how many points if the factorisation in Nov 23 00:22:39 is the Nov 23 00:22:55 5130 Nov 23 00:23:04 bug 5130 Nov 23 00:23:05 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5130 Use of "yes/no" in JavaScript confirmation dialogues is confusing Nov 23 00:23:20 any sip softphone for the maemo? Nov 23 00:23:21 thanks povbot! Nov 23 00:23:39 diegoviola: the native support isn't good enough? Nov 23 00:24:00 oh didn't knew it had one Nov 23 00:24:02 thx Nov 23 00:24:06 timeless_mbp: New GConf key: /apps/fix_retarded_ui_decisions, hildon_note_new_confirmation_add_buttons(window, "message", gconf_client_get_bool(client, "/apps/fix_retarded_ui_decisions", NULL) ? GTK_STOCK_OK : GTK_STOCK_YES Nov 23 00:24:16 can't work Nov 23 00:24:22 among other reasons we don't use gtk apis Nov 23 00:24:24 we use hildon Nov 23 00:24:30 timeless_mbp: could they not just alter the text in the dialog? Nov 23 00:24:40 and we're gated by evil people who refuse to allow us to make unapproved changes Nov 23 00:24:45 (or changes in general for that matter) Nov 23 00:24:56 lardman: you want the entire web to change its messages? Nov 23 00:25:08 just to work with one stupid browser on one device that no one in their right mind would use? Nov 23 00:25:09 no clue, where does that come from then? Nov 23 00:25:12 yeah, great idea Nov 23 00:25:16 yes Nov 23 00:25:21 file a bug with the internet at large Nov 23 00:25:25 ah it's from gmail is it? Nov 23 00:25:28 "dear internet" Nov 23 00:25:38 "nokia doesn't like your pretext, please change it. k. thx' Nov 23 00:25:52 lardman: gmail is one example, yes Nov 23 00:26:00 gmail should just give us /x and be done with it Nov 23 00:26:13 "screw nokia, they're idiots and broke js support for gmail anyway, have mobile" Nov 23 00:26:36 * timeless_mbp wonders if people have noticed that we broke gmail Nov 23 00:26:42 it must be possible to apply a binary patch to the flags for that dialog Nov 23 00:26:44 internals have noticed Nov 23 00:26:52 not particularly easily Nov 23 00:26:57 it's calling a hildon api function Nov 23 00:27:12 i'd have to find a similar abi gtk function with similar function length Nov 23 00:27:22 i'm much more willing to break everyone else Nov 23 00:27:27 oh right, I thought it was just a standard gtk dialog Nov 23 00:27:42 i believe i made myself very clear repeatedly above that we were using a hildon api Nov 23 00:27:49 timeless_mbp: Where on GMail would I find this message? Nov 23 00:27:50 is late Nov 23 00:28:08 qwerty12_N900: if you have unfinished server transactions and try to navigate away Nov 23 00:28:16 Gotcha Nov 23 00:28:39 it's fairly easy to trigger Nov 23 00:28:52 moreso recently Nov 23 00:29:00 nighty-night all Nov 23 00:29:08 gnite simon Nov 23 00:29:37 actually belay that order for a minute or two Nov 23 00:29:43 :) Nov 23 00:30:05 * lcuk puts the bacon back in the fridge gingerly Nov 23 00:30:15 i was ummmm errr just checking its ok Nov 23 00:30:29 which arch is maemo based off? Nov 23 00:30:33 timeless_mbp: You are aware hildon_note_new_confirmation_add_button is a Hildon function? Nov 23 00:30:39 well, which debian version? Nov 23 00:30:52 timeless_mbp: And hildon_note_new_confirmation_add_buttons is the one used for that dialog? Nov 23 00:30:53 qwerty12_N900: what part of we were ordered not to fix it was unclear? Nov 23 00:31:42 You're the one going on about how it wouldn't work Nov 23 00:31:48 yes Nov 23 00:31:56 from a "i can't fix that because i'm ordered not to" Nov 23 00:31:59 On the N900, what directory does the video player look at to find video content? Nov 23 00:32:04 not from a "it isn't possible to fix with a few lines of C" Nov 23 00:32:21 KenYoung: anywhere it isn't ordered not to index Nov 23 00:32:30 which is roughly anything you can see from file manager Nov 23 00:32:41 timeless_mbp, Thanks! Nov 23 00:33:01 KenYoung: that's not necessarily the question you actually wanted to ask Nov 23 00:33:04 or it might be Nov 23 00:33:13 it very much depends on what you actually are trying to do Nov 23 00:33:20 lcuk: help yourself, had my fill of bacon for this evening Nov 23 00:33:23 night all! Nov 23 00:33:27 nn Nov 23 00:33:40 timeless_mbp: I still think the GConf key is the way to go. They're UI designers, not programmers =) Nov 23 00:33:56 management isn't letting us change anything for ages anyway Nov 23 00:34:04 timeless_mbp, I just want to download some of my video content via scp, and I don't know where I should put it. Nov 23 00:34:07 and each fix we do has to have an explanation Nov 23 00:34:15 KenYoung: so... Nov 23 00:34:19 that's a different question :) Nov 23 00:34:25 if you stick a file in ~ you get a 2gb limit Nov 23 00:34:34 if you stick it in ~/MyDocs you get a 30gb limit Nov 23 00:35:07 if you stick a file in ~/MyDocs/.videos, then people using file manager will see it in the videos folder Nov 23 00:35:33 if you stick a file in ~/MyDocs/DCIM, then people using your n900 as usb mass storage will see it in the photos folder Nov 23 00:36:54 DCIM is probably mislabeled as "Camera" unless you have my localization in which case it's probably labeled as "Photos" Nov 23 00:37:05 hey anyone from the UK ? Nov 23 00:37:08 (which is arguably wrong if you happen to do a lot of video recording Nov 23 00:37:14 Anpr: there are such people Nov 23 00:37:33 are all of them sleeping ? :) Nov 23 00:38:03 timeless_mbp, Thanks, again. That's just what I wanted to know. Nov 23 00:38:19 KenYoung: in the future, i suggest you explain what you're trying to do Nov 23 00:38:30 otherwise you're likely to get an answer which is not at all what you actually need :) Nov 23 00:41:48 Reading comprehension seems to be at about a 5th grade level on Talk. Nov 23 00:49:01 that's pretty high Nov 23 00:50:32 ugh Nov 23 00:50:35 that was a pain Nov 23 00:50:39 usb dvd burners suck Nov 23 00:51:32 timeless_mbp, what can I say, I'm an optimist. Nov 23 00:52:33 yep Nov 23 00:59:51 nothing beats a windows install Nov 23 01:00:01 i think it has reboot like... 4 times already Nov 23 01:00:01 : Nov 23 01:00:02 :) Nov 23 01:00:06 amen to that brother Nov 23 01:00:31 i'm installing it on an older 2.6GHz opteron Nov 23 01:01:01 GeneralAntilles, spelling isn't that great either Nov 23 01:01:09 i should put better hardware in this little box Nov 23 01:01:44 * GeneralAntilles wonders where he's gonna sleep Sunday night in Barcelona. Nov 23 01:02:03 GeneralAntilles, you're in barcelona? Nov 23 01:02:13 Erm, December 4-7th Nov 23 01:02:25 you modafoka Nov 23 01:02:31 Come to Barcelona! Nov 23 01:02:37 You gonna be in Australia then? Nov 23 01:02:41 no Nov 23 01:02:51 I'm leaving the south of france on Tue. 5th Nov 23 01:03:08 So I might just abuse you and drive down to Barca on Monday evening Nov 23 01:03:29 you got a car while you're there? Nov 23 01:03:49 * crashanddie didn't go buy cigarettes Nov 23 01:03:54 now I'm starting to be really on edge Nov 23 01:04:08 tomorrow's workday is going to suck for people working in the same building Nov 23 01:04:58 lol, no, I don't have a car. Nov 23 01:05:10 I'm going to be wandering around with a bunch of Maemo hackers. Nov 23 01:05:35 ok Nov 23 01:05:41 putting it down in my agenda Nov 23 01:05:51 no promises though, lot of stuff happening Nov 23 01:06:01 going to barcelona to hang out with maemo hackers huh? Nov 23 01:06:04 sounds hoppin Nov 23 01:06:12 Nov 23 01:06:13 any change you can train up north for an evening? Nov 23 01:06:21 chance** Nov 23 01:06:32 Actually, hrm, when's my flight on Monday? . . . Nov 23 01:06:59 09:55 Nov 23 01:07:07 damn. one of the fans in this thing died Nov 23 01:07:10 that's crappy Nov 23 01:10:06 GeneralAntilles, so you're landing in barca on monday at 10AM? Nov 23 01:10:22 Leaving Nov 23 01:10:28 eh? Nov 23 01:10:39 Landing 07:45 December 4th. Nov 23 01:10:48 oh Nov 23 01:10:48 http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo-Barcelona_Long_Weekend Nov 23 01:10:50 december Nov 23 01:10:53 I'm such an idiot Nov 23 01:10:55 lol Nov 23 01:11:00 What were you thinking, January? Nov 23 01:11:02 yeah Nov 23 01:11:06 Ha Nov 23 01:11:16 sorry bro Nov 23 01:11:22 I'll be in Calif at that point Nov 23 01:11:39 anyway Nov 23 01:11:40 111 Nov 23 01:11:41 time for bed Nov 23 01:11:44 ta ta Nov 23 01:11:48 Later Nov 23 01:12:18 GeneralAntilles: what flight is 12 days long?!? Nov 23 01:12:28 Erm? Nov 23 01:12:37 My flight is about 8 hours long. Nov 23 01:12:45 Monday, tomorrow, is Nov 23 Nov 23 01:12:53 that's 12 days before your landing date of Dec 4 Nov 23 01:12:59 Yeah, I'm talking about Monday December 7th. :) Nov 23 01:13:05 Is when I'm leaving from Barcelona to fly back home. Nov 23 01:13:07 ... Nov 23 01:13:09 oh Nov 23 01:13:12 ok Nov 23 01:13:27 my next question was how you were landing before you departed ;) Nov 23 01:14:28 causality, schmausality Nov 23 01:20:06 johnx, you must post in the MacGyver thread Nov 23 01:22:19 * b-man17 feels like throwing his laptop out the window after seeing "TypeError: coercing to Unicode: need string or buffer, sqlite3.Connection found" xP Nov 23 01:22:57 b-man17, just stop using unicode Nov 23 01:23:50 lcuk: Unicode is practically mandatory in Python 3 Nov 23 01:24:05 b-man17, just stop using Python 3 ;) Nov 23 01:24:10 lol Nov 23 01:24:22 * b-man17 is using python2.5 Nov 23 01:24:45 in esbox Nov 23 01:24:47 so whats up then Nov 23 01:25:12 that´s what i´m trying to figure out :( Nov 23 01:25:38 * b-man17 posts the code on pastebin Nov 23 01:28:17 here´s the code: http://pastebin.ca/1683049 Nov 23 01:29:31 and the complete error: http://pastebin.ca/1683052 Nov 23 01:44:50 b-man17, look here Nov 23 01:44:56 settings, appdir, configdir, target, logfile = PathSetup.define_paths(locally, HOME) Nov 23 01:44:57 while define_paths does Nov 23 01:45:05 return appdir, configdir, logfile, target, settings Nov 23 01:45:10 notice anything different? Nov 23 01:45:17 like the order of variables? Nov 23 01:45:26 don't abuse tuples, create a class Nov 23 01:45:54 ok, thanks :) Nov 23 01:46:20 dont abuse classes, create structs ^^ Nov 23 01:46:31 ah, python? Nov 23 01:46:51 but tuples are what makes python great, especially the return tuples Nov 23 01:49:14 ohhh!!! it works!!!! thanks again mgedmin! :D Nov 23 01:53:41 mikhas, yeah, when there's a natural ordering, e.g. (x, y, z) Nov 23 01:53:46 not when you have 5 arbitrary things Nov 23 01:54:08 although named tuples maybe ... Nov 23 01:54:36 I see what you mean Nov 23 01:55:11 still, I wish other languages had that neat convert-into-tuples-on-return hack Nov 23 01:56:07 "x,y = y,x" <= best swap ever. Nov 23 02:00:40 python rules Nov 23 02:05:04 ~ping Nov 23 02:05:05 ~pong Nov 23 02:06:39 N810's slightly larger screen is "aah" after hours on N900 Nov 23 02:07:32 i would love to soÃmeday see a documentary on how n810 was designed and built Nov 23 02:07:51 the metal case feels soo classic Nov 23 02:11:14 hey all, im out of the loop, im reading rumors that seem to indicate mer may be dying Nov 23 02:11:32 From whom and where? Nov 23 02:11:39 well Nov 23 02:11:49 maybe not dying but their seems to be a general doubt tmo Nov 23 02:11:54 Pfft Nov 23 02:11:56 that it will ever be usable for day to day operations Nov 23 02:12:02 ive been gone for along time Nov 23 02:12:05 tmo can go die in a fire. Nov 23 02:12:11 so didnt know if something has happened Nov 23 02:12:15 or if people are just impatient Nov 23 02:12:15 Bunch of irrational fools over there. Nov 23 02:12:19 Impatient. Nov 23 02:12:26 ah okay Nov 23 02:12:31 ill wait :) Nov 23 02:12:43 so tmo is irrational fools but mamo on freenode is good haha Nov 23 02:13:00 Not actually reading anything and cherry-picking quotes are favorite pasttimes over there. ;) Nov 23 02:13:14 ah, i might be a little guilty Nov 23 02:13:27 Remember, Nokia just created a paid position to support Mer and its mission. ;) Nov 23 02:13:37 i did not know that Nov 23 02:13:40 that is news to me Nov 23 02:13:45 Yeah, Stskeeps is distmaster now. Nov 23 02:13:46 havent really been on internet for a month... Nov 23 02:13:55 ah well thats cool and exciting Nov 23 02:13:59 Working for maemo.org Nov 23 02:14:00 im looking forward to what comes out Nov 23 02:14:27 I figured that you would be here and know Nov 23 02:14:27 I helped run a Mer booth at the Florida Linux Show in Orlando last month with andrewfblack. Nov 23 02:14:29 what was up Nov 23 02:14:31 So, no, not dying. ;) Nov 23 02:14:36 yay!! Nov 23 02:14:48 I wonder if there is anyway I could help mer with my lack of technical skill... Nov 23 02:14:56 Instantly converted a half-dozen Android hackers to Maemo when I showed them the N900. Nov 23 02:15:16 lucky person having one Nov 23 02:15:25 GA, gj! Nov 23 02:16:23 it wasnt GA, it was the n900 Nov 23 02:16:26 (no offence) Nov 23 02:16:48 Hey, I'm an affable and exciting individual! Nov 23 02:17:33 still i think the n900 did most of the work Nov 23 02:17:47 yeah, I guess you could convert android devs if you showed them the powers of an abacus ... Nov 23 02:17:55 Wait, maybe I mean laughable. . . . Nov 23 02:19:07 favourite discussion on tmo Nov 23 02:19:09 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=34616&page=3 Nov 23 02:19:18 should I risk to click? Nov 23 02:19:30 tadthebuilder, well, I warmed 'em up with a talk about relative platform merits (X, real toolkits, real libc, open governance, public bug tracker, etc.) then I showed 'em the N900 later. :P Nov 23 02:19:44 ah okay Nov 23 02:19:49 knowledge is helpful too Nov 23 02:19:52 From what I have read around I believe the basic, original version, of the Atom is still about twice as powerful as the N900 CPU. Nov 23 02:20:07 Yeah, it also uses infinite more power at idle. ;) Nov 23 02:20:17 it was a quote Nov 23 02:20:22 i thought thats only true Nov 23 02:20:26 if you compare megahertz Nov 23 02:20:35 but not if you compare actual usage Nov 23 02:20:47 It depends on the task. Nov 23 02:20:57 But for most things that's basically correct Nov 23 02:21:06 Power usage is the metric that really matters in mobile devices, though. Nov 23 02:21:14 true Nov 23 02:21:22 I want my device to not kill my batter Nov 23 02:21:23 y Nov 23 02:21:29 I have a lapto Nov 23 02:21:31 when new Nov 23 02:21:37 The OMAP3 uses practically zero power at idle, the Atom uses nearly the same amount at idle as active. Nov 23 02:21:40 it got about an hour of battery life Nov 23 02:21:45 when new Nov 23 02:21:47 now 15 minutes Nov 23 02:21:50 worst purchase ever Nov 23 02:21:55 big difference in power consumption Nov 23 02:21:59 I want an arm laptop! Nov 23 02:22:13 have fun compiling, lol Nov 23 02:22:13 as long as it can run firefox and open office... Nov 23 02:22:26 Firefox and OpenOffice suck :p Nov 23 02:22:31 meh Nov 23 02:22:34 its what i use Nov 23 02:22:39 too lazy to check new stuff Nov 23 02:22:44 too pour to pay ms or opera money Nov 23 02:22:48 poor* Nov 23 02:22:51 Konqueror is older than Firefox Nov 23 02:22:58 eye Nov 23 02:23:02 but im a windows convert Nov 23 02:23:11 so i was using firefox before I switched to linux Nov 23 02:23:31 and gmail and google docs and such dont seem to work right in conqueror Nov 23 02:23:43 is there a better open source office suite? Nov 23 02:23:50 tbh, I'd buy MS Office in an instant if it would run natively on linux Nov 23 02:24:00 KOffice? Honestly, I just use a plain old text editor Nov 23 02:24:18 i actually like open office better than ms office Nov 23 02:24:19 tadthebuilder: that's because Google can't code for crap Nov 23 02:24:24 oh Nov 23 02:24:28 wierd Nov 23 02:24:29 i had this arguement with you before.. Nov 23 02:24:35 and you went on a rant about how google cant code Nov 23 02:24:38 it was fun Nov 23 02:24:40 ooffice is inferior to ms office in so many ways ... Nov 23 02:24:53 ooffice does everything ineed Nov 23 02:24:55 ed Nov 23 02:25:00 through college, and seminary Nov 23 02:25:12 Kate does everything I need. Nov 23 02:25:15 (seminary Nov 23 02:25:20 does OOffice/MSOffice even support bookmarks? Nov 23 02:25:21 = gradschool) Nov 23 02:25:38 never worked with more than forty pages Nov 23 02:25:39 wait Nov 23 02:25:46 45, never used book marks Nov 23 02:25:52 isnt kate just a text editor? Nov 23 02:25:57 yes, exactly :p Nov 23 02:26:09 a text editor with syntax highlighting and bookmarks Nov 23 02:26:09 yeah Nov 23 02:26:10 all I need Nov 23 02:26:26 guess you never had to write a footnoted paper in turabian style Nov 23 02:26:40 tadthebuilder: HTML works just fine Nov 23 02:26:53 seems like a little more work Nov 23 02:27:09 nah Nov 23 02:27:11 i havent used html since i was twelve i think Nov 23 02:27:15 faster to type than hunt for buttons Nov 23 02:27:34 keyboard shortcuts... Nov 23 02:27:42 and I guess kate has latex plugins, too Nov 23 02:27:48 I think HTML is still faster in the long run :) Nov 23 02:27:57 and again, BOOKMARKS Nov 23 02:28:00 well, I like my gedit though it could be improved Nov 23 02:28:03 a MUST HAVE for coding :p Nov 23 02:28:04 well yes Nov 23 02:28:09 id have to learn html again... Nov 23 02:29:13 i wish i could go to barcelona Nov 23 02:29:17 just seems like a pretty city Nov 23 02:29:32 ... Nov 23 02:30:03 ux meets code hackfest in barcelona Nov 23 02:40:17 anyone seen the design of the eee-reader with the clamshell book like design Nov 23 02:42:36 that "edge"? Nov 23 02:44:04 http://gizmodo.com/5354359/asus-eee-reader-could-have-dual-color-touchscreens Nov 23 02:45:07 * GeneralAntilles is going to Barcelona. Nov 23 02:45:20 you excited general Nov 23 02:45:27 Yeah Nov 23 02:46:04 thats exciting Nov 23 02:49:48 im glad you get to go to barcelona since you could make amsterdam **** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Nov 23 02:59:56 2009