**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Dec 01 02:59:58 2009
Dec 01 03:00:45 <Sargun_Screen> hey
Dec 01 03:08:30 <Sargun_Screen> hm, my tmobile sim doesn't work for data.
Dec 01 03:08:48 <Sargun_Screen> it's a prepaid sim
Dec 01 03:09:01 <simula_> do they make prepaid data sims?
Dec 01 03:10:34 <Sargun_Screen> it worked in my other phone(s)
Dec 01 03:13:26 <pwnguin> Sargun_Screen: what were the other phones?
Dec 01 03:13:46 <Sargun_Screen> openmoko neo
Dec 01 03:13:48 <pwnguin> the prepaid data plan is fairly cheap from what i hear, and restricted to dumbphones/
Dec 01 03:13:51 <pwnguin> ?
Dec 01 03:13:58 <Sargun_Screen> i had to manually set the p
Dec 01 03:14:00 <Sargun_Screen> apn
Dec 01 03:14:09 <pwnguin> so it works?
Dec 01 03:14:17 <Sargun_Screen> no
Dec 01 03:14:39 <Sargun_Screen> hm, how do i set the apn on here?
Dec 01 03:15:55 <ShadowJK> that's a goof questoon
Dec 01 03:16:36 <DangerMaus> heh
Dec 01 03:16:48 <Sargun_Screen> alright, class now, buysy
Dec 01 03:31:52 <Flandry> Is there some direct connection between changelogs and bugtracker yet, as in Fixes: MB#NNNN?
Dec 01 04:06:26 <DangerMaus> Good news! Your order xxxxxx  was sent on 30.11.2009
Dec 01 04:06:29 <DangerMaus> :)
Dec 01 04:08:46 <DangerMaus> OMG if all goes well i'll have it tomarrow!
Dec 01 04:12:32 <Xisdibik> DangerMaus: nice! i got mine today :D
Dec 01 04:13:27 <DangerMaus> ordered outta shop.nokia  (usa)  bout midnight
Dec 01 04:14:27 <DangerMaus> Xisdibik, i should get it tomarrow
Dec 01 04:14:32 <Xisdibik> nice :D
Dec 01 04:15:17 <DangerMaus> man dont update there system till like 22:30EST
Dec 01 04:17:28 <Xisdibik> why?
Dec 01 04:24:10 <hardaker2> Well, do *not* let your n900 time out security wise while it's mounted.  crashed my main linux machine.
Dec 01 04:25:59 <microlith> man, nokia usa makes me rage
Dec 01 04:27:03 <microlith> DangerMaus: when did you place your order?
Dec 01 04:27:18 <hardaker2> microlith: their support absolutely sucked.
Dec 01 04:27:28 <microlith> hardaker2: I know this
Dec 01 04:28:15 <hardaker2> my favorite line was when they told me "oh yeah...  your phone is ready to go.  we're just waiting for fedex to pick it up"
Dec 01 04:28:24 <hardaker2> then two days later got the *same* response.
Dec 01 04:28:35 <microlith> oh you got that far at least
Dec 01 04:28:39 <hardaker2> I told them "um, I know fedex pretty well and if it was ready 2 days ago they would have picked it up 2 days ago!"
Dec 01 04:28:58 <microlith> they hit a fraud denial with my CC, and every attempt to re-order was rejected
Dec 01 04:29:09 <hardaker2> yep.  they got that with me too.
Dec 01 04:29:13 <hardaker2> eventually it stopped though.
Dec 01 04:29:16 <hardaker2> very annoying.
Dec 01 04:29:33 <microlith> I'm debating cancelling my newegg order and trying nokia one more time
Dec 01 04:29:36 <microlith> in the hopes it works
Dec 01 04:30:19 <paroneayea> http://groups.fsf.org/wiki/FreeMaemo
Dec 01 04:30:21 <paroneayea> http://maemo.org/community/maemo-developers/double_checking_free-nonfree_packages/
Dec 01 04:30:32 <paroneayea> pwnguin: ^^
Dec 01 04:34:04 <DangerMaus> microlith, i placed the order today bout 10m after midnight when my direct deposit finnaly went it
Dec 01 04:35:56 <DangerMaus> http://maemo.org/community/maemo-developers/double_checking_free-nonfree_packages/
Dec 01 04:36:19 <DangerMaus> microlith, i did also take the 1-3days shipping
Dec 01 04:36:57 <DangerMaus> oops
Dec 01 04:37:28 <DangerMaus> gotta love the winders clippboard
Dec 01 04:38:31 <easydebian> anyone know why i can't install dmsetup?
Dec 01 04:38:41 <easydebian> i get the error rm: cannot remove '/etc/udev/rules.d/65_dmsetup.rules': No such file or directory
Dec 01 04:39:34 <microlith> DangerMaus: huh
Dec 01 04:39:43 <microlith> their system is so screwed
Dec 01 04:40:32 <DangerMaus> what they cancell you?
Dec 01 04:40:59 <DangerMaus> it took me 3 tres to get my cc info correst
Dec 01 04:41:15 <microlith> they got caught by my CC's anti-fraud stuff
Dec 01 04:41:15 <microlith> and apparently even that will lock you out of their system for an undefined amount of time
Dec 01 04:41:16 <easydebian> i need to update easy-chroot, but this error has blocked the upgrade
Dec 01 04:41:16 <microlith> (whereas newegg allowed me to instantly re-order)
Dec 01 04:41:20 <DangerMaus> and i thought newegg was tough
Dec 01 04:41:49 <DangerMaus> man
Dec 01 04:41:56 <easydebian> anyone have any ideas?
Dec 01 04:44:49 <DangerMaus> microlith,  like my card has a few addys attached to it ands usualy i can leave either as the billing addy  but not at nokia had to use my home addy for billing even though the addy im at atm is the true addy
Dec 01 04:45:09 <DangerMaus> for billing
Dec 01 04:45:38 <RXrenesis81> we got hachi and hydrox
Dec 01 04:45:49 <RXrenesis81> code names!
Dec 01 04:45:54 <RXrenesis81> for code people...
Dec 01 04:45:58 <easydebian> anyone have any ideas?
Dec 01 04:46:55 <easydebian> this is the right channel to ask, right?
Dec 01 04:48:02 <cehteh> mhm
Dec 01 04:48:27 <easydebian> awesome; now i wonder if anyone is awake :)
Dec 01 04:48:33 <cehteh> :)
Dec 01 04:48:50 <cehteh> i seen a package for dmsetup do you use that?
Dec 01 04:49:01 <cehteh> and real hardware of course, not SDK
Dec 01 04:49:12 <easydebian> i need to update easy-chroot, but this error has blocked the upgrade
Dec 01 04:49:15 <cehteh> .o(and no, i dont have a n900)
Dec 01 04:49:34 <easydebian> easy-chroot now depends on dmsetup (didn't in the past)
Dec 01 04:49:46 <cehteh> dmsetup needs hardware/kernel access, so wont work on the sdk
Dec 01 04:49:57 <easydebian> i am using thne n810
Dec 01 04:50:03 <cehteh> ah ok
Dec 01 04:50:18 <cehteh> well dunno then, maybe packaging bug?
Dec 01 04:50:29 <cehteh> try to workaround that bug
Dec 01 04:50:35 <easydebian> i bet it is; no one else has reported it
Dec 01 04:50:42 <easydebian> i tried several work arounds
Dec 01 04:50:53 <easydebian> but couldn't find the *.deb for it
Dec 01 04:50:56 <cehteh> touch /etc/udev/rules.d/65_dmsetup.rules
Dec 01 04:51:19 <cehteh> well i dunno what exactly happens there
Dec 01 04:51:28 <easydebian> trying that cmd
Dec 01 04:51:48 <cehteh> that would just satisfy the rm command not to fail
Dec 01 04:52:47 <easydebian> thanks, that fixed it
Dec 01 04:52:57 <easydebian> is that the same as sudo nano that file?
Dec 01 04:53:06 <easydebian> (to create it)
Dec 01 04:53:10 <cehteh> yes
Dec 01 04:53:18 <cehteh> or echo >filename
Dec 01 04:53:22 <cehteh> whatever :)
Dec 01 04:53:40 <easydebian> i only know the nano, but the touch worked grat
Dec 01 04:53:53 <easydebian> *great (the n810 keyboard)
Dec 01 04:54:19 <easydebian> thznks again cehteh
Dec 01 04:54:54 <cehteh> np
Dec 01 05:13:03 <easydebian> cehteh: i posted the workaround here: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=402103
Dec 01 05:21:26 <DangerMaus> yay fixed
Dec 01 05:24:13 <cehteh> has the n900 a tmpfs mounted somewhere?
Dec 01 05:27:23 <ShadowJK> /tmp /var/run
Dec 01 05:28:12 <ShadowJK> /dev/shm
Dec 01 05:28:17 <cehteh> nice
Dec 01 05:28:19 <cehteh> thanks
Dec 01 05:34:50 <dmj7261> hi cehteh
Dec 01 05:35:15 <cehteh> hi dmj7261
Dec 01 05:35:58 <dmj7261> I've been writing a webcomic app to familiarize myself with maemo
Dec 01 05:36:34 <dmj7261> been doing horrible things to Randall Munroe's servers. :P
Dec 01 05:37:12 <cehteh> haha
Dec 01 05:37:45 <cehteh> i bet he needs soem fat loadbalancers and a server farm just because many people try so :P
Dec 01 05:38:08 <dmj7261> yeah
Dec 01 05:38:26 <cehteh> what language/libs do you use?
Dec 01 05:38:28 <dmj7261> I've probably scraped his archive about three times so far
Dec 01 05:38:33 <dmj7261> mostly python
Dec 01 05:39:07 <cehteh> makes sense for such a thing
Dec 01 05:39:20 <cehteh> and i guess there is no 'xsetroot' on maemo
Dec 01 05:39:24 <dmj7261> I glued my python gui to the python cli app with this kludge: os.system('python2.5 mainline xkcd -c &')
Dec 01 05:39:34 <arachnist> xkcd ++
Dec 01 05:40:08 <arachnist> dmj7261: that lookes ugly
Dec 01 05:40:35 <DangerMaus> mainlining xkcd :)
Dec 01 05:40:54 <cehteh> i am going over my C/C++ debuggin lib sometime next, i give it a try to port it to maemo too
Dec 01 05:41:07 <arachnist> almoast as bad as perl scripts launching sed and grep in system()
Dec 01 05:41:17 <dmj7261> yeah...I just took a GPLed command line webcomic scraper written in python and use it as my backend
Dec 01 05:41:31 <arachnist> (as i've seen some leftovers after one of the old admins)
Dec 01 05:41:33 <cehteh> wget :P
Dec 01 05:41:37 <cehteh> awk
Dec 01 05:42:49 <dmj7261> the one nice thing about that ugly line of code is that it decouples the downloading process from the gui
Dec 01 05:43:43 <cehteh> uhm
Dec 01 05:43:55 <cehteh> in some extra ugly way :P
Dec 01 05:44:01 <dmj7261> yeah
Dec 01 05:44:25 <dmj7261> I'll fix it better later
Dec 01 05:44:54 <dmj7261> You don't want to picture what it does without the &
Dec 01 05:46:30 <cehteh> system() always calls a intermediate shell .. so be careful about its security implications
Dec 01 05:46:38 <dmj7261> I think I've found why people are complaining about the kinetic scrolling
Dec 01 05:46:56 <dmj7261> security implications?
Dec 01 05:47:15 <Sargun> It requires that I changed it to a side kick plan
Dec 01 05:48:02 <cehteh> yeah using the accelerometer for scrolling would be fun
Dec 01 05:48:54 <dmj7261> I'm attempting to scroll through the xkcd archive
Dec 01 05:50:42 <dmj7261> It's taken at least ten minutes so far
Dec 01 05:52:41 <Klowner> my N900 should arrive tomorrowwww! =
Dec 01 05:52:49 * Klowner spins in circles while screaming
Dec 01 05:53:12 <cehteh> 8D
Dec 01 05:53:21 <DangerMaus> join me Klowner mini too tomarrow
Dec 01 05:53:27 <DangerMaus> mine
Dec 01 05:53:55 <cehteh> well.. you are the test bunnies, do well weeding out all bugs until mine arrives :P
Dec 01 05:54:12 <Klowner> DangerMaus: I ordered from NokiaUSA this morning, shipped tonight
Dec 01 05:54:18 <cehteh> paying premium for being alpha tester ... G
Dec 01 05:54:18 <DangerMaus> aslong as its not the reboot one
Dec 01 05:54:31 <DangerMaus> Klowner, me2
Dec 01 05:54:37 <PolarFox> I don't know when my N900 will arrive.. :( It's a race with N900 on the other side and the Maemo-SDK with ESBox on the other side.. :) I think N900 will win :)
Dec 01 05:56:18 <DangerMaus> crap i dont even have a linux box with me
Dec 01 06:04:13 <dmj7261> http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/subjectivity.png
Dec 01 06:04:57 <dmj7261> http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/subjectivity.png
Dec 01 06:05:07 <DangerMaus> werks
Dec 01 06:06:27 <dmj7261> that's 255 by the way
Dec 01 06:07:36 <Sargun> echo 10 > /sys/class/leds/twl4030:vibrator/brightness
Dec 01 06:07:39 <Sargun> hm
Dec 01 06:07:41 <Sargun> wtf
Dec 01 06:08:08 <cehteh> glowing vibrator? :)
Dec 01 06:08:19 <Sargun> it works
Dec 01 06:08:19 <sulx> dont you have one?
Dec 01 06:08:42 <Xisdibik> is timeless sleeping like he should be?
Dec 01 06:08:42 <Sargun> sulx, have one what?
Dec 01 06:08:42 <sulx> glowing vibrator
Dec 01 06:09:12 <t_s_o> mind > gutter
Dec 01 06:09:26 <RST38h> a killer feature
Dec 01 06:09:49 <Klowner> glowing vibrator? is that like the sparkly Twilight vibrators?
Dec 01 06:10:02 <Xisdibik> New Moon vibrator sounds like
Dec 01 06:10:12 <DangerMaus>  
Dec 01 06:10:55 <Sargun> RST38h, a vibrator
Dec 01 06:12:33 <Klowner> Xisdibik: they make those, I saw it on youtube
Dec 01 06:13:50 <Xisdibik> Klowner: please no links, the thought alone gives me nightmares
Dec 01 06:14:20 <Klowner> lol
Dec 01 06:14:26 <Sargun> God, Tmobile sucks
Dec 01 06:14:30 * Klowner stops looking through his browser history
Dec 01 06:14:49 <Xisdibik> whats wrong Sargun
Dec 01 06:14:53 <luke-jr> GeneralAntilles: IIRC, you were anti-MIPS to some degree... what makes ARM better than MIPS? from what I've seen, ARM uses 4x the power than MIPS does in practice
Dec 01 06:15:07 <Sargun> Xisdibik, can't get roaming data
Dec 01 06:15:13 <Sargun> s/roaming/prepaid/
Dec 01 06:15:14 <infobot> Sargun meant: Xisdibik, can't get prepaid data
Dec 01 06:15:50 * Klowner stares in awe at infobot 
Dec 01 06:16:46 * Xisdibik stares in awe at Klowner 
Dec 01 06:18:12 * DangerMaus finds his giant cartoon mallet
Dec 01 06:18:43 <Klowner> the combination of having 3 pints at the local tweetup and my N900's shipping status has made me giddy
Dec 01 06:19:51 <DangerMaus> been there since 9:30 CST Klowner
Dec 01 06:20:10 <DangerMaus> without the tweetup
Dec 01 06:20:47 * DangerMaus feels sorry for the peeps with 900's stuck in newegg/amazon limbo
Dec 01 06:23:07 <Klowner> I had an amazon pre-order since Nov 6th
Dec 01 06:23:31 <DangerMaus> ouch
Dec 01 06:23:34 <Klowner> pre-orders seem to be mid-October, so I figured I'd risk it and order a second through NokiaUSA
Dec 01 06:23:42 <DangerMaus> yours ship outta indy?
Dec 01 06:23:45 <Klowner> shipped tonight, so I quick canceled my amazon
Dec 01 06:24:23 <Klowner> mmmm yep
Dec 01 06:24:58 <Klowner> 10:06pm arrived at fedex location in Indianapolis
Dec 01 06:25:05 <DangerMaus> im in chicago for a few days  it'll get here b4 i leave
Dec 01 06:25:29 <Klowner> dandy, I'm in the Quad Cities
Dec 01 06:25:37 <DangerMaus> heh
Dec 01 06:26:03 <DangerMaus> too bad bout the tax but who cares 'll have it
Dec 01 06:26:08 <Klowner> yea
Dec 01 06:26:35 <DangerMaus> i thought about going down to the flagship yesterday
Dec 01 06:26:41 <DangerMaus> in chicago
Dec 01 06:27:02 <DangerMaus> but figged they would be out by then
Dec 01 06:27:03 <Xisdibik> Klowner you ordered in oct and didnt get yours yet from Amazon?
Dec 01 06:27:10 <Xisdibik> oh since nov 6
Dec 01 06:27:12 <Xisdibik> no wonder
Dec 01 06:27:19 <Xisdibik> i got mine today from amazon and ordered Sept 19th
Dec 01 06:27:26 <DangerMaus> yiokes
Dec 01 06:27:31 <DangerMaus> yikes
Dec 01 06:27:41 <Klowner> Xisdibik: yaa
Dec 01 06:28:06 <Klowner> I ended up paying like $60 more, but I'll get it before.. frickin February
Dec 01 06:28:26 <DangerMaus> yepyep exectly
Dec 01 06:29:10 <DangerMaus> if i didnt see it moving within 3 days i would of just prob canceled and waited  or tried it from buy.com
Dec 01 06:30:15 <Xisdibik> so to get MSN and AIM and Yahoo etc on my n900, i have to install pidgin, or can i install certain protocols to just link in with conversations app?
Dec 01 06:30:33 <Xisdibik> (i actualy got MSN with the accounts-telepathy-haze or w/e thingy
Dec 01 06:30:36 <Xisdibik> but not AIM / yahoo
Dec 01 06:30:42 <greenfly> Xisdibik: there's telepathy packages that add extra protocols
Dec 01 06:31:09 <greenfly> should even be a metapackage that pulls all of 'em
Dec 01 06:32:39 <Xisdibik> greenfly: i couldnt find anything unless its (*checks*)
Dec 01 06:33:04 <Xisdibik> i didnt see telepathy on the loist
Dec 01 06:33:05 <Xisdibik> list*
Dec 01 06:33:12 <Xisdibik> except the haze thing for MSN
Dec 01 06:33:31 * DangerMaus passes Klowner a glass of champange
Dec 01 06:36:18 <greenfly> Xisdibik: search for different account-plugin packages
Dec 01 06:36:41 <Xisdibik> just idle, and salut
Dec 01 06:37:02 <Xisdibik> is it in devel or something?
Dec 01 06:37:03 <greenfly> haze should add pidgin support
Dec 01 06:37:12 <greenfly> Xisdibik: it could be but I didn't think it was
Dec 01 06:38:06 <Xisdibik> any way i can check without adding -devel?
Dec 01 06:40:22 <greenfly> Xisdibik: go to your settings and try to add a new account and see if AIM is available now
Dec 01 06:41:17 <Xisdibik> nope
Dec 01 06:41:26 <Xisdibik> Ovi, skype, Gtalk, Jabber, MSN and SIP
Dec 01 06:41:32 * Klowner downs it in one gulp
Dec 01 06:42:21 <luke-jr> did Nokia seriously just invent a new proprietary IM protocol??
Dec 01 06:42:50 <Xisdibik> luke-jr: dunno, did they? ;)
Dec 01 06:42:54 <timeless_mbp> Xisdibik: i do sleep for a bit..
Dec 01 06:43:10 <Xisdibik> timeless_mbp: ^^ good morning?   or are you going to sleep more?
Dec 01 06:43:26 <luke-jr> Xisdibik: you just listed "Ovi" as one..?
Dec 01 06:43:41 <L0cutus> re
Dec 01 06:43:43 <Xisdibik> luke-jr: it shows up in the accounts page for conversations
Dec 01 06:43:54 <Xisdibik> luke-jr: i figured it was older than maemo 5?
Dec 01 06:43:57 <luke-jr> Xisdibik: that's ... slightly disturbing
Dec 01 06:44:02 <luke-jr> no, never seen it on my N810
Dec 01 06:44:10 <kirma> I've got the impression Gtalk is XMPP/Jabber, and it's listed separately on the device, obviously for users' delight
Dec 01 06:44:14 <Xisdibik> timeless_mbp: maybe you can help me with my question? ;)
Dec 01 06:44:22 <luke-jr> kirma: true
Dec 01 06:44:23 <Xisdibik> kirma: ype
Dec 01 06:44:24 <tekojo> luke-jr it's just xmpp, but if you want an Ovi account it's easy to create there
Dec 01 06:44:31 <luke-jr> ah
Dec 01 06:44:35 <luke-jr> ok
Dec 01 06:44:43 <Xisdibik> tekojo: so same deal as gtalk then?
Dec 01 06:45:04 <tekojo> Xisdibik yep, people talk of Gtalk, so less hassles
Dec 01 06:46:23 <timeless_mbp> Xisdibik: thanks, dunno
Dec 01 06:46:38 <Xisdibik> tekojo: do you know if the protocols for AIM/Yahoo are in extras-devel, since i cant seem to get them with extras/extras-testing
Dec 01 06:46:56 <Xisdibik> or do i have to install pidgin to get them?
Dec 01 06:46:56 <timeless_mbp> so um.. which of you guys are in .us?
Dec 01 06:47:11 <timeless_mbp> i need someone w/ an n900 to heavily and meticulously test something for me
Dec 01 06:47:13 <Xisdibik> i am timeless_mbp
Dec 01 06:47:20 <Xisdibik> and i have an n900
Dec 01 06:47:43 <timeless_mbp> cool
Dec 01 06:49:17 <luke-jr> Xisdibik: you are timeless_mbp?
Dec 01 06:51:14 <timeless_mbp> luke-jr++
Dec 01 06:51:20 <timeless_mbp> luke-jr: have you upgraded engb1?
Dec 01 06:52:16 <luke-jr> timeless_mbp: engb1?
Dec 01 06:53:44 <Xisdibik> luke-jr: im not timeless_mbp
Dec 01 06:53:51 <tekojo> Xisdibik yes, seem to be in devel
Dec 01 06:53:52 <Lynoure> Yesterday I was inquiring after ESbox not finding hildonmm.h and gtkmm.h, I now think I should have everything needed installed in the scratchbox... is it possible ESbox is looking somewhere else?
Dec 01 06:54:01 <Lynoure> Or what should I try?
Dec 01 06:54:06 <tekojo> everything else in testing, no idea why
Dec 01 06:54:22 <Xisdibik> haha, maybe the rest should be moved! ;)
Dec 01 06:54:35 <Xisdibik> or rather the ones in devel should be moved
Dec 01 06:56:54 <timeless_mbp> tekojo: the clock app is depressing
Dec 01 06:57:44 <Xisdibik> timeless_mbp: just the map portion apparently
Dec 01 06:58:32 <tekojo> timeless_mbp no the weather is depressing, the clock just presents us the fact that this time of the year is depressing
Dec 01 06:59:27 <RST38h> Does Maemo SDL support SDL_ttf at all???
Dec 01 06:59:28 <Lynoure> Do I need to install some of the -dev packages to the host machine itself for esbox to find them?
Dec 01 07:03:51 <timeless_mbp> tekojo: open clock
Dec 01 07:03:54 <timeless_mbp> find baltimore
Dec 01 07:05:01 <timeless_mbp> http://www.webwizardry.net/~timeless/n900/clock-notes.jpg
Dec 01 07:05:23 <timeless_mbp> http://www.webwizardry.net/~timeless/n900/wdb
Dec 01 07:05:43 <luke-jr> timeless_mbp: I hereby declare you a pizza.
Dec 01 07:05:59 <timeless_mbp> i am not a number!
Dec 01 07:06:04 <timeless_mbp> what kind of number is a pizza?
Dec 01 07:06:07 <luke-jr> no, you're a pizza.
Dec 01 07:08:41 <Lynoure> timeless_mbp: you seem clueful... any idea what I could try?
Dec 01 07:08:44 <timeless_mbp> why didst thou dubbest me as pizza?
Dec 01 07:09:17 <timeless_mbp> Lynoure: you're assuming i'm paying attention instead of trying to literally rewrite the map
Dec 01 07:10:25 <timeless_mbp> Lynoure: pastebin your current error
Dec 01 07:10:29 <timeless_mbp> i can't read your screen
Dec 01 07:12:17 <Lynoure> timeless_mbp: Unresolveld inclusion <hildonmm.h>
Dec 01 07:12:42 <Lynoure> timeless_mbp: Unresolved inclusion <gtkmm.h>
Dec 01 07:12:49 <timeless_mbp> um
Dec 01 07:12:53 <timeless_mbp> have you found mxr.maemo.org?
Dec 01 07:13:15 <Lynoure> No idea how to check
Dec 01 07:13:41 <Lynoure> bus arriving, I'll have to go and recheck later. Sorry for the suddenness of this.
Dec 01 07:14:07 <timeless_mbp> http://mxr.maemo.org
Dec 01 07:15:27 <timeless_mbp> Lynoure: roughly, you need to figure out who provides it
Dec 01 07:15:28 <Lynoure> timeless_mbp: I installed sdk with the nokia script and esbox with Getting started with maemo5 video instructions
Dec 01 07:15:36 <timeless_mbp> my guess (randomly) would be gtkmm-dev
Dec 01 07:15:45 <timeless_mbp> the fremantle xref does not have a gtkmm.h
Dec 01 07:15:50 <Lynoure> timeless_mbp: I thought I did, and installed those into the scratchbox
Dec 01 07:16:30 <Lynoure> hmm. I'll come back on my lunchbreak. Damn meetings.
Dec 01 07:16:45 <timeless_mbp> in general, you need to do two things:
Dec 01 07:16:48 <timeless_mbp> 1. install foo-dev
Dec 01 07:16:59 <timeless_mbp> 2. make sure pkgconfig --cflags foo works
Dec 01 07:21:30 <tigert> sigh
Dec 01 07:21:48 <tigert> why does extras-devel fail for me all the time?
Dec 01 07:22:36 <lardman> morning all
Dec 01 07:23:12 <timeless_mbp> tigert: to teach you patience
Dec 01 07:25:01 <tigert> i has it :)
Dec 01 07:25:47 <tigert> "no hash entry in release file"
Dec 01 07:25:53 <tigert> anyone else seeing this?
Dec 01 07:26:02 <Xisdibik> is there any way to load subtitles into the default media player for videos?
Dec 01 07:26:08 <Chani> what can I use to #ifdef out code that's maemo-only?
Dec 01 07:26:21 * tigert wonders if appmanager is broken in this build or if the repo is broken
Dec 01 07:26:31 <tigert> Xisdibik: no
Dec 01 07:26:37 <tigert> Xisdibik: install mplayer
Dec 01 07:26:49 <tigert> it should do some sub stuff?
Dec 01 07:26:54 <wrapster> os.system() call does not show anything on n900 but on scratchbox it works fine.. so had this doubt of whether I need to pipe it to something to get it up on the n900 screen as well?
Dec 01 07:27:01 <wrapster> anyone has an idea?
Dec 01 07:27:17 <lardman> Xisdibik: file a bug, I want that too
Dec 01 07:27:51 <lardman> wrapster: what are you running in there?
Dec 01 07:27:53 <Xisdibik> lardman: have you filed a bug already?
Dec 01 07:27:58 <timeless_mbp> GeneralAntilles: gah
Dec 01 07:28:05 <timeless_mbp> i so want to kill someone
Dec 01 07:28:10 <timeless_mbp> tekojo: ping
Dec 01 07:28:13 <wrapster> lardman: a few shell commands
Dec 01 07:28:25 <timeless_mbp> please explain to me why i should distinguish between nokia software and third party software
Dec 01 07:28:32 <lardman> Xisdibik: no, but I just stuck a movie + subtitles on my N900; check there's not one already mind you
Dec 01 07:28:43 <timeless_mbp> and, what actually counts as 'Nokia' software?
Dec 01 07:28:44 <lardman> wrapster: they are not running?
Dec 01 07:29:20 <wrapster> lardman: no.. irony is that they run perfectly on scratbox but none of the them run on n900's terminal
Dec 01 07:29:32 <lardman> wrapster: what are the commands?
Dec 01 07:29:42 <lardman> you don't use /bin/bash by chance?
Dec 01 07:29:45 <timeless_mbp> has anyone here ever seen the orange software updates notification?
Dec 01 07:29:52 <lardman> yes
Dec 01 07:29:53 * Xisdibik hasnt
Dec 01 07:30:06 <wrapster> lardman: any command... but for now.. may be this os.system('cat full_info.log |more')
Dec 01 07:30:07 <timeless_mbp> lardman: have you ever seen it suggest 'Nokia Software'?
Dec 01 07:30:13 <Flandry> i have
Dec 01 07:30:24 <lardman> wrapster: strange, but ok, in that case I don't know
Dec 01 07:30:44 <timeless_mbp> Flandry: what "Nokia Software" did it offer to update?
Dec 01 07:30:49 <lardman> timeless_mbp: not sure I have, but then we've not had an OTA update have we
Dec 01 07:30:51 <Flandry> only for m.o software
Dec 01 07:31:11 <Flandry> extras rather :P
Dec 01 07:31:15 * timeless_mbp pokes tekojo 
Dec 01 07:31:38 * lardman has a sore throat :(
Dec 01 07:31:39 * Xisdibik pokes lardman with a pm
Dec 01 07:31:53 * lardman always misses those, so goes to look at it now
Dec 01 07:32:22 <mece> visudo points to the wrong editor location in fremantle
Dec 01 07:32:38 <Venomrush> does the N900 mail client support IMAP IDLE?
Dec 01 07:32:50 <Venomrush> for use with push mails
Dec 01 07:34:51 <timeless_mbp> Venomrush: ever heard of google?
Dec 01 07:34:52 <timeless_mbp> http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Email_Options#IMAP_Idle_for_Push_Email
Dec 01 07:35:08 <mece> timeless_mbp, google is evil.
Dec 01 07:36:35 <mece> wow.. yahoo search looks like google these days :D
Dec 01 07:36:38 <timeless_mbp> mece: you mean it's evil in that it enables people to not seem as clueless as they are
Dec 01 07:36:40 <lardman> subtitles are supported by gstreamer http://gstreamer.freedesktop.org/tasks/gstreamer.html
Dec 01 07:37:06 <lardman> so might be worth trying to compile that gst element and see if they magically appear :)
Dec 01 07:37:15 <mece> timeless_mbp, you're talking about search engines, not google.
Dec 01 07:37:38 <mece> timeless_mbp, although google does have a search engine that is pretty good.
Dec 01 07:37:52 <timeless_mbp> mece: http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=n900+imap+idle&toggle=1&cop=mss&ei=UTF-8&fr=yfp-t-701
Dec 01 07:37:54 <timeless_mbp> efail
Dec 01 07:37:56 <lardman> http://gstreamer.freedesktop.org/data/doc/gstreamer/0.10.5/gst-plugins-base-plugins/html/gst-plugins-base-plugins-plugin-subparse.html
Dec 01 07:38:05 <lardman> so are we on version 0.10.4 or later I wonder?
Dec 01 07:38:05 <Sargun> can I have multiple exchange accouns
Dec 01 07:38:31 <timeless_mbp> Sargun: wanna practice using google
Dec 01 07:38:42 <mece> timeless_mbp, How's that a fail?
Dec 01 07:38:54 <Sargun> timeless_mbp, I don't like using google
Dec 01 07:39:06 <timeless_mbp> mece: none of the top hits have anything about the n900's support for imap idle
Dec 01 07:39:23 <timeless_mbp> they're mostly articles about competitor's imap idle support  + an ad for the n900
Dec 01 07:39:24 <mece> except the one pointing here: http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Email_Options
Dec 01 07:39:53 <timeless_mbp> mece: yeah, for me that was #10
Dec 01 07:40:08 <timeless_mbp> i typically give up after about 3
Dec 01 07:40:12 <mece> timeless_mbp, still, it's there, so not a fail imo.
Dec 01 07:40:38 <Flandry> yeah i don't have much luck searching for stuff on m.o
Dec 01 07:40:58 <timeless_mbp> Flandry: you get one free 'loser was too lazy to search'
Dec 01 07:41:03 <timeless_mbp> after that, you'll have to pay
Dec 01 07:41:17 <mece> timeless_mbp, I'm not saying yahoo is as good as google, but it does wrok most of the time.
Dec 01 07:41:32 <mece> not only does it wrok, it also works :)
Dec 01 07:41:48 <timeless_mbp> well it doesn't rock!
Dec 01 07:41:56 <Flandry> there's a difference between searching and not finding and not searching though
Dec 01 07:42:26 <cehteh> modest makes me thinking about finally switching to gnus
Dec 01 07:42:57 <mece> is there a way to change where visudo looks for vi, or does one have to symlink to vi from the place it looks?
Dec 01 07:44:14 <mece> Wohoo! Helena is released!
Dec 01 07:44:17 <tigert> hmm
Dec 01 07:44:29 <tigert> X-Fade: do you still know about the webstuff?
Dec 01 07:44:41 <tigert> wow, lots of idling :)
Dec 01 07:44:55 <Stskeeps> x-fade may still be on holiday?
Dec 01 07:44:58 <tigert> looks like extras-devel Release file was missing all the checksum stuff
Dec 01 07:45:03 <tigert> yeah it seems so, 13 days idle
Dec 01 07:45:09 <tigert> http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/dists/fremantle/Release
Dec 01 07:45:22 <tigert> so this now has the hash stuff
Dec 01 07:45:27 <tigert> but when this failed in appmanager
Dec 01 07:45:48 <tigert> I opened it in browser and got just the "header" part in the beginning, ie, the file ended after the Date: line
Dec 01 07:46:20 * timeless_mbp frowns
Dec 01 07:47:02 <tigert> so nobody else has ever seen this?
Dec 01 07:47:50 <Sargun> why is the exchange syncronization taking like
Dec 01 07:47:51 <Sargun> 3 hrs
Dec 01 07:47:59 * Sargun aborts it
Dec 01 07:48:07 <timeless_mbp> Flandry: only one active MfE account at a time
Dec 01 07:48:20 <Flandry> ?
Dec 01 07:48:40 <Flandry> Think you got the wrong guy
Dec 01 07:48:55 <Xisdibik> he does :)
Dec 01 07:49:00 <timeless_mbp> hrm, probably
Dec 01 07:49:07 <Xisdibik> Sargun is who he ment
Dec 01 07:49:09 <timeless_mbp> s/Flandry/Sargun/ ?
Dec 01 07:49:10 <Stskeeps> tigert: suspect there's a update process that doesn't modify a local copy and then updting atomically
Dec 01 07:49:24 <Sargun> :-(
Dec 01 07:49:29 <timeless_mbp> Sargun: how should multiple accounts work?
Dec 01 07:49:31 <tigert> Stskeeps: that came to my mind too
Dec 01 07:49:41 <timeless_mbp> if i have a calendar entry in MfE-Nokia-MSExch2007
Dec 01 07:49:53 <timeless_mbp> and I add MfE-Google-GMail
Dec 01 07:50:05 <timeless_mbp> should my calendar entry be added to that service too?
Dec 01 07:50:11 <Lynoure> timeless_mbp: (15min break) I do have libhildon-dev and libgtk-2.4-dev on both scratchbox targets. Do I need such things on the host as well?
Dec 01 07:50:27 <timeless_mbp> Lynoure: you should never need -dev packages on device
Dec 01 07:50:36 <timeless_mbp> they're basically header files and linker object files
Dec 01 07:50:44 <timeless_mbp> (archives technically, whatever)
Dec 01 07:51:02 <Lynoure> timeless_mbp: the header files is what I think I am missing...
Dec 01 07:51:18 <timeless_mbp> Lynoure: i don't think the gtkmm file is a standard part of gtk
Dec 01 07:51:29 <Lynoure> timeless_mbp: So I need to have those in my host OS?
Dec 01 07:51:43 <Sargun> timeless_mbp, well.
Dec 01 07:51:46 <Sargun> what's MfE
Dec 01 07:51:54 <Sargun> timeless_mbp, works on my Palm Pre
Dec 01 07:52:04 <Xisdibik> MfE = Mail for Exchange
Dec 01 07:52:13 <Stskeeps> tigert: and then it might get amplified by the CDN sync script.. nothing i have access to look at though
Dec 01 07:52:14 * timeless_mbp needs to rename MfE to Exchange
Dec 01 07:52:17 <timeless_mbp> or ActiveSync
Dec 01 07:52:21 * timeless_mbp hasn't figured out which yet
Dec 01 07:52:40 <tigert> timeless_mbp: well it should just add two calendars
Dec 01 07:52:51 <timeless_mbp> tigert: ok
Dec 01 07:52:54 <tigert> mail works just fine like that too
Dec 01 07:52:58 <tigert> multiple accounts
Dec 01 07:53:02 <timeless_mbp> what about when i add a contact?
Dec 01 07:53:15 <timeless_mbp> does it get automatically added to the other MfE addressbook?
Dec 01 07:53:27 <tigert> no, because multiple accounts do not work :)
Dec 01 07:53:47 <tigert> but that is likely an issue that would need to be solved somehow
Dec 01 07:53:49 <timeless_mbp> how should MfE *know* not to upload the contact to the second MfE service?
Dec 01 07:53:55 <Xisdibik> wha, i thought you just said it did tigert
Dec 01 07:53:58 <tigert> you have multiple contact sources even now though
Dec 01 07:53:58 <timeless_mbp> tigert: no kidding
Dec 01 07:53:58 * Xisdibik is confuzzled
Dec 01 07:54:11 <tigert> Xisdibik: multiple Exchange accounts do not work
Dec 01 07:54:26 <timeless_mbp> Xisdibik: what he said is multiple mailboxes kinda works
Dec 01 07:54:32 <timeless_mbp> and multiple calendars kinda works
Dec 01 07:54:40 <timeless_mbp> so in theory those two things should be possible for MfE
Dec 01 07:54:43 <timeless_mbp> if it were enabled
Dec 01 07:54:47 <tigert> but there is no fundamental reason why it couldnt work
Dec 01 07:54:50 <timeless_mbp> (it's actively crippled by the MfE team)
Dec 01 07:54:58 <tigert> multimail works with imap
Dec 01 07:55:07 <tigert> calendar sync only works apparently with MfE
Dec 01 07:55:09 <timeless_mbp> yeah, it's just ui
Dec 01 07:55:20 <tigert> which sucks,
Dec 01 07:55:23 <timeless_mbp> tigert: technically cal sync works w/ PC Suite :)
Dec 01 07:55:31 <tigert> since it would be nice to get the work calendar + googlecalendar
Dec 01 07:55:32 <timeless_mbp> my personal n900 is on loan to a guy who uses it
Dec 01 07:55:43 <tigert> timeless_mbp: yea pcsuite syncs
Dec 01 07:55:47 <tigert> but pcsuite also sucks :)
Dec 01 07:55:50 <tigert> imho
Dec 01 07:55:51 <timeless_mbp> so don't say "Only" =b
Dec 01 07:56:00 <timeless_mbp> oh, you'll never hear an argument from me on that point ;-)
Dec 01 07:56:07 <lardman> is PC Suite written in Qt?
Dec 01 07:56:07 <tigert> but the device says it is not recommended to use both at the same time
Dec 01 07:56:12 <timeless_mbp> perhaps s/also/only/ ;-)
Dec 01 07:56:23 <timeless_mbp> tigert: well, yeah
Dec 01 07:56:27 <timeless_mbp> you really don't want to
Dec 01 07:56:31 <Lynoure> hmm.
Dec 01 07:56:38 <timeless_mbp> it should be able to create some terrible loops
Dec 01 07:56:52 <timeless_mbp> what it actually means is "don't sync the same account using two means"
Dec 01 07:57:15 <Lynoure> I could not find hildonmm.h at all on rmx.maemo.org
Dec 01 07:57:30 <tigert> timeless_mbp: right
Dec 01 07:57:35 <timeless_mbp> Lynoure: yep, i think mm=c++ package
Dec 01 07:57:42 <timeless_mbp> i don't think it's something we'd have
Dec 01 07:57:42 <tigert> timeless_mbp: now what one needs is a native port of pcsuite
Dec 01 07:57:45 * tigert ducks ;D
Dec 01 07:57:47 <timeless_mbp> since maemo was gtk-c
Dec 01 07:57:56 <timeless_mbp> tigert: um
Dec 01 07:58:00 <Lynoure> timeless_mbp: weird...
Dec 01 07:58:07 <timeless_mbp> i need smaller holes in my head
Dec 01 07:58:09 <timeless_mbp> dunno about you
Dec 01 07:58:17 <tigert> timeless_mbp: I wonder if the sync stuff limits multiaccounts only in the ui?
Dec 01 07:58:20 <timeless_mbp> porting pc suite isn't quite something i'd want
Dec 01 07:58:28 <timeless_mbp> tigert: ask vitaly
Dec 01 07:58:37 <tigert> timeless_mbp: I was just joking about pcsuite porting
Dec 01 07:58:40 <timeless_mbp> he explained what they did
Dec 01 07:58:45 <Lynoure> timeless_mbp: I'm working with a tutorial provided by Nokia, called Getting Started With Moemo5
Dec 01 07:58:52 <Lynoure> s/Moemo/Maemo/
Dec 01 07:58:53 <infobot> Lynoure meant: timeless_mbp: I'm working with a tutorial provided by Nokia, called Getting Started With Maemo5
Dec 01 07:59:07 <timeless_mbp> Lynoure: does it actually use gtkmm?
Dec 01 07:59:13 <timeless_mbp> if so, contact the author
Dec 01 07:59:14 <Lynoure> Any idea of what tutorial I should use, that would work?
Dec 01 07:59:17 <Lynoure> timeless_mbp: Yes.
Dec 01 07:59:26 <timeless_mbp> contact the author
Dec 01 07:59:33 <Lynoure> http://www.forum.nokia.com/document/Get_started_with_Maemo_5/
Dec 01 07:59:35 <timeless_mbp> i believe the author is smoking something
Dec 01 07:59:44 <Lynoure> No idea who the author is.
Dec 01 08:00:15 <Lynoure> What tutorial should I use instead? Eventually I'd like to use Qt for my app?
Dec 01 08:00:23 <Lynoure> s/app?/app/
Dec 01 08:00:24 <infobot> Lynoure meant: What tutorial should I use instead? Eventually I'd like to use Qt for my app
Dec 01 08:00:59 * timeless_mbp wonders about that audio track
Dec 01 08:01:02 <timeless_mbp> is it text to speech?
Dec 01 08:01:30 <timeless_mbp> she isn't reading the text on the screen
Dec 01 08:01:36 <timeless_mbp> but her pace is fixed
Dec 01 08:01:42 <Lynoure> Seems to be more speech than the text.
Dec 01 08:02:08 <timeless_mbp> so.. i don't deal w/ fn
Dec 01 08:02:30 <timeless_mbp> but if you can't find a way to contact them, i'd suggest ... well... figure it out
Dec 01 08:02:39 <timeless_mbp> there's a big "Feedback" button at the bottom left of this page :)
Dec 01 08:02:47 <timeless_mbp> ok, it isn't that big..
Dec 01 08:02:56 <Lynoure> Anyway, I don't have to use _that_ tutorial... but is it so that there is no recommendable tutorials?
Dec 01 08:03:07 <timeless_mbp> dunno
Dec 01 08:03:19 <timeless_mbp> i wouldn't bother with Gtk++
Dec 01 08:03:23 <timeless_mbp> it seems like a waste
Dec 01 08:03:32 <Lynoure> Qt, like I said.
Dec 01 08:03:45 <timeless_mbp> you're using Gtk C because you have Gtk C code you want to use
Dec 01 08:03:52 <timeless_mbp> otherwise, if you like C++, you should just use Qt
Dec 01 08:04:03 <timeless_mbp> note that, in my current life, i'm not a Qt coder
Dec 01 08:04:04 <Lynoure> timeless_mbp: I'm using gtk because I did not get to the qt part of that tutorial yet
Dec 01 08:04:32 <Lynoure> ...and never will, if the author seems to be smoking something =)
Dec 01 08:04:39 <timeless_mbp> there's a "feedback *disclaimer*"!
Dec 01 08:04:56 * lardman wonders if the BBC mobile page provides those twitter like comments during rugby matches?
Dec 01 08:07:18 <timeless_mbp> Lynoure: i found signs of a http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/dists/fremantle/install/gtkmm-booster.install
Dec 01 08:07:29 <timeless_mbp> i'd assume that package depends on enough interesting bits of gtkmm
Dec 01 08:07:49 <timeless_mbp> http://maemomm.garage.maemo.org/
Dec 01 08:08:37 <timeless_mbp> http://maemo.org/packages/source/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_source/hildonmm/2.1.5-0maemo0/
Dec 01 08:08:43 <timeless_mbp> so libhildonmm-dev is in extras-devel
Dec 01 08:08:54 <timeless_mbp> of course, extras-devel is probably dead :)
Dec 01 08:08:58 <murrayc_> What's the problem?
Dec 01 08:09:23 * timeless_mbp shrugs
Dec 01 08:09:24 <Lynoure> libhildonmm-dev is what I installed on the scratchbox already, no help.
Dec 01 08:09:26 <murrayc_> Here's how to install maemomm:
Dec 01 08:09:27 <murrayc_> http://maemomm.garage.maemo.org/docs/tutorial/html/sec-installation.html#sec-linux-install-from-packages
Dec 01 08:10:09 <Lynoure> murrayc_: mostly I'm hoping to find a tutorial tha would get me started on my way to make a qt app for N900
Dec 01 08:10:30 <murrayc_> Lynoure: maemomm is not much use to you then.
Dec 01 08:10:41 <lardman> hmm, someone was talking about petrovich the other day, I thought they meant this: http://www.dangermouse.net/esoteric/petrovich.html
Dec 01 08:10:52 <Lynoure> murrayc_: and was trying to use http://www.forum.nokia.com/document/Get_started_with_Maemo_5/ but ran into problems, now wondering if it is broken or obsolete
Dec 01 08:11:28 <Lynoure> murrayc_: yes, I know, just a step to test the dev environment. But what tutorial should I use?
Dec 01 08:12:38 <timeless_mbp> Lynoure: it sounds like they forgot to tell you to install maemomm
Dec 01 08:12:52 <timeless_mbp> complain to FN
Dec 01 08:13:00 <timeless_mbp> please note that FN is not affiliated with #maemo
Dec 01 08:13:10 <timeless_mbp> FN is a commercial entity within nokia
Dec 01 08:13:16 <timeless_mbp> it's distinct from Maemo Devices
Dec 01 08:13:33 <timeless_mbp> (they have people who kinda work with us, but they are technically not ours)
Dec 01 08:14:07 <murrayc_> Lynoure: This might be helpful, but the earlier version that I checked was quite awful: http://wiki.forum.nokia.com/index.php/Qt_for_Maemo_Developers_Guide
Dec 01 08:14:09 <Lynoure> I did already complain about the tutorial.
Dec 01 08:14:49 <Lynoure> murrayc_: "awful" currently beats "no starting point" :)
Dec 01 08:15:02 <murrayc_> It's really very bad.
Dec 01 08:16:44 <Lynoure> murrayc_: any idea ideas for a starting point?
Dec 01 08:17:10 <adeus> well that doesn't look all that bad
Dec 01 08:17:24 <adeus> at least the hello world parts seem ok
Dec 01 08:19:15 <Lynoure> adeus: I'll try with that one, then :)
Dec 01 08:20:38 <adeus> personally I'd skip the ESBox stuff :P
Dec 01 08:20:55 <Lynoure> hmm, I did have all the maemomm packages installed in the scratchbox already, hmm
Dec 01 08:21:08 <Lynoure> adeus: what would you use instead?
Dec 01 08:21:17 <murrayc_> Lynoure: Were you using pkg-config to get the paths?
Dec 01 08:21:29 <hrw|gone> http://www.maemonokian900.com - who is behind that crap?
Dec 01 08:21:33 <hrw|gone> someone know?
Dec 01 08:21:43 <murrayc_> Lynoure: http://maemomm.garage.maemo.org/docs/tutorial/html/sec-basics-headers-and-linking.html
Dec 01 08:21:53 <murrayc_> Lynoure: http://maemomm.garage.maemo.org/docs/tutorial/html/sec-basics-example.html
Dec 01 08:22:22 <adeus> well just native qt tools
Dec 01 08:22:29 <adeus> qt creator or just emacs..
Dec 01 08:22:41 <adeus> but maybe I'm too oldschool
Dec 01 08:22:52 <murrayc_> hrw|gone: Looks like content theft.
Dec 01 08:23:06 <hrw|gone> murrayc_: I know that - my posts are there
Dec 01 08:23:30 <lardman> hmm, why do my avis appear with a bit of working screen at the top and the rest green?
Dec 01 08:23:38 <hrw|gone> Registrant: Simon Challis 15 Victoria rd Laindon Essex ss156an United Kingdom
Dec 01 08:24:18 <mece> hrw|gone, wtf? That is pretty weird.
Dec 01 08:25:12 <hrw|gone> ok, need to go now, will be back in ~2h
Dec 01 08:26:08 <Lynoure> murrayc_: I'll try that on my next break
Dec 01 08:26:33 <adeus> is actually using the eclipse thingy now?
Dec 01 08:26:36 <Lynoure> adeus: I'm new to qt so something ide-like might be good...
Dec 01 08:26:40 <adeus> my experience of it is quite old
Dec 01 08:27:28 <adeus> then maybe you should that then
Dec 01 08:28:00 <Lynoure> adeus: that=?
Dec 01 08:28:17 <adeus> the esbox
Dec 01 08:28:24 <adeus> described in that doc
Dec 01 08:29:58 <Lynoure> adeus: I'll give it a shot. And then leap to using something else  if it sucks
Dec 01 08:31:31 <lardman> ~curse application manager for taking so damn long to do anything
Dec 01 08:31:41 <infobot> May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, application manager for taking so damn long to do anything !
Dec 01 08:32:43 <Flandry> yeah it's really slow
Dec 01 08:32:55 <timeless_mbp> hrw|gone: that isn't your site? :)
Dec 01 08:33:08 <Flandry> and in sdk i have to re-set red pill mode every other time i use it
Dec 01 08:33:46 <Flandry> and tell it to assume net connection
Dec 01 08:33:48 <lardman> argh, why can't I find gst-inspect?
Dec 01 08:33:52 <timeless_mbp> hrw|gone: looks like an advertising aggregator
Dec 01 08:34:26 * suihkulokki notices a fresh "clutter" branch in maemo-mapper git
Dec 01 08:34:53 <lardman> hmm, gstreamer-tools /me wonders
Dec 01 08:35:01 <lardman> suihkulokki: for Qt?
Dec 01 08:35:39 <timeless_mbp> suihkulokki: stalking isn't polite :)
Dec 01 08:37:38 <suihkulokki> timeless_mbp: :P no just someone asked from me if there was a maemo-mapper for n900 so I went to check what's going on =)
Dec 01 08:37:49 <Sargun> Does the front camera do anything useful on the n900?
Dec 01 08:38:07 <Ford_Prefect> Sargun, video conferencing on GTalk/Skype?
Dec 01 08:38:31 <Sargun> Ford_Prefect, It doesn't have an option for video
Dec 01 08:38:47 <Venomrush> can't really switch Camera to use front camera
Dec 01 08:38:48 <Myrtti> and that means it will not have an option in the future?
Dec 01 08:38:56 <Venomrush> can't see where use Video Calling..
Dec 01 08:38:57 <Sargun> when will it?
Dec 01 08:39:03 <lardman> anyone have a film with .sub subtitles and want to see if subparse works?
Dec 01 08:39:05 <lardman> http://people.bath.ac.uk/enpsgp/nokia770/gst/
Dec 01 08:39:37 <suihkulokki> Sargun: there is a mirror application for it
Dec 01 08:40:05 <Sargun> haha, really
Dec 01 08:40:07 <timeless_mbp> Sargun: it takes up space :)
Dec 01 08:40:12 <timeless_mbp> but yeah, the mirror app works today
Dec 01 08:40:25 <timeless_mbp> the goal is to use it for video conferencing eventually
Dec 01 08:41:02 <zaheerm> i hope front camera quality and that annoying stripe on right improves soon though :)
Dec 01 08:41:33 * timeless_mbp frowns
Dec 01 08:44:35 * timeless_mbp sighs
Dec 01 08:44:48 <timeless_mbp> whose brilliant idea was it to spell Hartford as hatford?
Dec 01 08:44:57 <timeless_mbp> just because it's pronounced that way doesn't mean it's spelled that way
Dec 01 08:45:02 * timeless_mbp guesses it was a finn
Dec 01 08:45:32 <Myrtti> English pronounciation is screwed up anyway
Dec 01 08:46:05 <timeless_mbp> yeah, but you're not supposed to pronounce words when you write them for publication
Dec 01 08:46:16 <timeless_mbp> you're supposed to use a reference and make sure you properly copy+paste the thing
Dec 01 08:47:34 <zaheerm> we have worse at our company
Dec 01 08:47:55 <timeless_mbp> mirophone/micorophone wins prizes
Dec 01 08:48:02 <zaheerm> where we have spaniards writing the spanish PR and an english translator translating them
Dec 01 08:48:38 <timeless_mbp> zaheerm: but have you ever had anyone write out Cuidad de México?
Dec 01 08:48:47 <zaheerm> :)
Dec 01 08:49:11 <timeless_mbp> you clearly haven't been to http://www.flagship.nokia.com/
Dec 01 08:49:18 <zaheerm> we've had phrases you'd have to look at 3 times to understand what they meant though
Dec 01 08:49:22 <timeless_mbp> (you have to wait for the ribbons to move away)
Dec 01 08:49:59 * timeless_mbp still wants to know what the heck www.meet-your-city.com is
Dec 01 08:49:59 <zaheerm> Mexico City (Spanish: Ciudad de México, or Distrito Federal)
Dec 01 08:50:15 <zaheerm> so they got it right
Dec 01 08:50:25 <timeless_mbp> zaheerm: um
Dec 01 08:50:31 <timeless_mbp> read the front page flash carefully
Dec 01 08:50:34 <timeless_mbp> no cheating
Dec 01 08:51:25 <zaheerm> sorry i see nothing wrong, except the meet your city part looks daft
Dec 01 08:51:50 <timeless_mbp> ok, please read the title of the city letter at a time
Dec 01 08:51:58 <zaheerm> oh ashit
Dec 01 08:52:01 <timeless_mbp> don't read the words you think they wrote, read the letters
Dec 01 08:52:09 <zaheerm> i didn't spot that
Dec 01 08:52:14 * timeless_mbp noticed
Dec 01 08:52:31 <timeless_mbp> teaching people to read is apparently hard
Dec 01 08:52:32 <zaheerm> have you filed a bug report with them? :)
Dec 01 08:52:51 <timeless_mbp> um... over a week ago i sent email to 3 of the employees at that store
Dec 01 08:52:55 <zaheerm> yes especially as tendency is not to actually read but try and recognise the whole word
Dec 01 08:52:55 <timeless_mbp> they send thanks
Dec 01 08:53:18 <timeless_mbp> s/send/said/
Dec 01 08:53:19 <infobot> timeless_mbp meant: they said thanks
Dec 01 08:53:45 <zaheerm> www.meet-your-city.com doesn't work
Dec 01 08:53:58 <timeless_mbp> view-source:http://web.archive.org/web/20080209013657/http://www.meet-your-city.com/
Dec 01 08:54:06 <timeless_mbp> it used to exist
Dec 01 08:54:14 <timeless_mbp> it was a flash property
Dec 01 08:56:04 <lardman> bbl
Dec 01 08:56:54 <timeless_mbp> i wonder if the guy from http://www.postwork.co.uk/portfolio/2008/09/flagshipnokiacom/ has better contacts
Dec 01 08:57:30 <zaheerm> you think nokia were bad wrt launch of n900 read this: http://www.trustedreviews.com/mobile-phones/news/2009/12/01/Motorola-Milestone--aka-Droid--Hits-T-Mobile/p1
Dec 01 08:57:33 <timeless_mbp> wait, there's a nokia flagship store in dubaii?
Dec 01 08:57:46 <zaheerm> timeless_mbp, yep to attract the yuppies ;)
Dec 01 08:57:57 <PolarFox> timeless_mbp: Why not? I can't think no better place .. :D
Dec 01 08:58:00 <timeless_mbp> zaheerm: it isn't on the flagship.nokia.com site
Dec 01 08:58:07 <timeless_mbp> if it isn't on the web, it must not exist
Dec 01 08:58:11 <timeless_mbp> QED
Dec 01 08:58:13 <PolarFox> :D
Dec 01 08:58:25 <zaheerm> lol
Dec 01 08:59:27 <suihkulokki> timeless_mbp: tsk, tsk, it is Dubai, not "dubaii". :P
Dec 01 08:59:38 <timeless_mbp> suihkulokki: yeah, i saw, but decided not to s// :(
Dec 01 08:59:57 <timeless_mbp> but at least nokia didn't manage to misspell it, since they don't list it :)
Dec 01 09:00:37 <timeless_mbp> but seriously
Dec 01 09:00:50 <timeless_mbp> google is not helping me find much evidence that nokia-flagship-dubai exists
Dec 01 09:01:01 <PolarFox> Wait, g00gle tells me that it's a Nokia Concept Store
Dec 01 09:01:12 <PolarFox> not a flagship store.
Dec 01 09:01:37 <PolarFox> Looks like Flagship store... but isn't.. :)
Dec 01 09:01:38 <timeless_mbp> http://www.blogcatalog.com/blog/symbia-s60-the-3rd/605805f8a7b927ea043c7b6a1b0c95c6
Dec 01 09:01:45 <timeless_mbp> that claims it's a flagship
Dec 01 09:02:07 <timeless_mbp> ut yeah, google says concept store
Dec 01 09:02:07 <timeless_mbp> s/ut/but/
Dec 01 09:02:07 <infobot> timeless_mbp meant: but yeah, google says concept store
Dec 01 09:02:10 <PolarFox> Oh... It's in a blog, it must be true.. :)
Dec 01 09:02:27 <timeless_mbp> if it's in only one blog, it must be false :)
Dec 01 09:02:45 <DangerMaus> saw someoone mention the dubai flagship store in the reboot or bricking buggy
Dec 01 09:02:51 * Sargun hasn't begun N900 love yet
Dec 01 09:02:53 <Sargun> :-(
Dec 01 09:03:06 * DangerMaus starts tomarrow
Dec 01 09:03:31 <Sargun> Where do I put my music
Dec 01 09:03:56 <timeless_mbp> http://www.nokia.co.in/find-a-store/ncs-mumbai
Dec 01 09:04:07 <timeless_mbp> can someone please explain why [india] is in a dropdown?
Dec 01 09:05:10 <Sargun> how do I prevent the N900 from sleeping
Dec 01 09:05:43 <timeless_mbp> plug it in
Dec 01 09:06:02 <RST38h> Any SDL experts around?
Dec 01 09:06:07 <DangerMaus> heheheheheh
Dec 01 09:07:05 <timeless_mbp> http://pastebin.mozilla.org/687335
Dec 01 09:07:11 * timeless_mbp kicks nokia
Dec 01 09:07:21 <timeless_mbp> there's no "i didn't do anything because your site sucked"
Dec 01 09:10:22 <DangerMaus> http://www.nokia.ae/find-a-store-en/store-locator/store-concept-uae
Dec 01 09:10:58 <DangerMaus> timeless_mbp, ^^
Dec 01 09:11:10 <timeless_mbp> ooh
Dec 01 09:11:13 <timeless_mbp> i'm a winner
Dec 01 09:11:20 <timeless_mbp> i'm not done taking the .in survey
Dec 01 09:11:26 <timeless_mbp> and now i have a chance to take the .ae survey
Dec 01 09:11:51 <DangerMaus> lol
Dec 01 09:12:42 <Corsac> http://europe.nokia.com/EUROPE_NOKIA_COM_3/Sorry/design3.jpg wtf
Dec 01 09:12:55 <timeless_mbp> http://pastebin.mozilla.org/687336
Dec 01 09:12:58 <Corsac> (and 1, 2)
Dec 01 09:13:02 <timeless_mbp> how can they not spell OS X correctly?
Dec 01 09:13:40 <Corsac> what about Mac OS 9?
Dec 01 09:13:49 <DangerMaus> ha
Dec 01 09:13:59 <DangerMaus> ha
Dec 01 09:14:54 <timeless_mbp> Corsac: ...
Dec 01 09:15:04 <Corsac> what? :)
Dec 01 09:15:18 <timeless_mbp> if nokia is trying to compete w/ software from Mac OS 9 days, that'd explain some things
Dec 01 09:15:29 <timeless_mbp> but even software for 9 was shinier and worked better
Dec 01 09:15:55 <Corsac> OS 9 was release just a few months before Windows 2000 which is in the list too
Dec 01 09:16:02 * DangerMaus falls flat on his face
Dec 01 09:16:03 <Corsac> released
Dec 01 09:17:46 * DangerMaus waits to see the FedEx plane fly over with his 900 in it
Dec 01 09:19:30 <timeless_mbp> You are here - Nokia United Arab Emirates Find a storeStore LocatorApplication Container
Dec 01 09:19:36 <timeless_mbp> I'm in an application container?
Dec 01 09:19:49 <timeless_mbp> Corsac: AIX is listed
Dec 01 09:20:08 <timeless_mbp> do i even want to know when AIX last had a major version released?
Dec 01 09:20:59 <Corsac> timeless_mbp: so you can install it on your laptop, sure
Dec 01 09:21:36 <Shapeshifter> hum
Dec 01 09:22:33 <Stskeeps> mashiara: any luck yet?
Dec 01 09:22:42 * DangerMaus throws a stamp on the container and mail timeless_mbp home
Dec 01 09:23:08 <timeless_mbp> valuable stamp, eh?
Dec 01 09:23:11 <Sargun> Ok, so far the N900 isn't as revolutionary as the N810
Dec 01 09:23:15 <mashiara> stskeeps: on the kernel/modules front ? haven't had the time
Dec 01 09:23:18 <Stskeeps> mashiara: k
Dec 01 09:23:21 <Sargun> it doesn't have working GSM -_- fucking t-mobile
Dec 01 09:23:41 <timeless_mbp> Sargun: eh?
Dec 01 09:24:00 <Sargun> timeless_mbp, Apparently you can't get "real" prepaid data on a t-mobile sim
Dec 01 09:24:11 <Sargun> unless you have a sidekick
Dec 01 09:24:12 <timeless_mbp> explain?
Dec 01 09:24:13 <mashiara> stskeeps: I was kind of starting to wonder if there is something in Parallels/my SB installation that messes the kernel up in subtle ways
Dec 01 09:24:15 <Shapeshifter> my shop claims that they receive their n900 batch today.
Dec 01 09:24:32 <timeless_mbp> do i want to know why http://www.nokia.ae/find-products-ar/all-phones/nokia-n900?ca=NewN900&lpos=row1_position1&lid=convergence_NewN900_displayad+NewN900Ar+_banner_228x96&t=convergence exists?
Dec 01 09:24:37 <Shapeshifter> reason for me to get excited? yes. probably not true? yes.
Dec 01 09:24:40 <Sargun> timeless_mbp, I can't get GPRS on a t-mobile SIM without contract.
Dec 01 09:24:43 <mashiara> stskeeps: though I have yet to try to just dpkg-buildpackage the kernel source package as is and then try flashing it
Dec 01 09:24:48 <timeless_mbp> ah
Dec 01 09:24:50 <timeless_mbp> nice
Dec 01 09:25:14 <timeless_mbp> could someone try clicking on ...
Dec 01 09:25:18 <timeless_mbp> ة فائقة. أداء عالي.
Dec 01 09:25:24 <timeless_mbp> in that web page
Dec 01 09:25:37 <Sargun> How hard is it to get signal info (cell, RSSI, etc..)
Dec 01 09:25:49 * timeless_mbp sighs
Dec 01 09:26:08 <timeless_mbp> why in the world would they have an n900en flash ad in an arabic web page?
Dec 01 09:26:37 <zaheerm> if you're talking about dubai
Dec 01 09:26:46 <zaheerm> most people there do not speak arabic
Dec 01 09:27:07 <timeless_mbp> http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nokia.ae%2Ffind-products-ar%2Fall-phones%2Fnokia-n900%2Ffeatures&sl=ar&tl=en is funny
Dec 01 09:27:18 <Shapeshifter> woooo the second- and third-biggest mobile providers here just fusioned.
Dec 01 09:27:28 <Shapeshifter> better reception ftw.
Dec 01 09:27:34 <Sargun> can I do podcatching in my n900?
Dec 01 09:27:36 <timeless_mbp> Shapeshifter: not necessarily
Dec 01 09:27:43 <timeless_mbp> Sargun: catching?
Dec 01 09:27:48 <timeless_mbp> who does podthrowing?
Dec 01 09:27:54 <zaheerm> Shapeshifter, a way of decomissioning expensive mast sites :P
Dec 01 09:27:55 <Shapeshifter> timeless_mbp: yes necessarily. because one of them doesn't have Edge but loads of 3G antennas
Dec 01 09:28:09 <Sargun> timeless_mbp, Reading RSS feeds, and automagically downloading new podcrap
Dec 01 09:28:09 <Shapeshifter> the other one has only little 3G
Dec 01 09:28:13 <Shapeshifter> they make a perfect team
Dec 01 09:28:23 <Shapeshifter> and yeah, they can put down a few antennas.
Dec 01 09:28:31 <timeless_mbp> Sargun: i'm pretty sure that podcatching isn't an accepted term
Dec 01 09:28:39 <zaheerm> s/a few/ a lot of/ :)
Dec 01 09:28:57 <zaheerm> Sargun, install gpodder
Dec 01 09:29:01 <jaem> hrm... does the #ifdef Q_WS_HILDON feature require any setup, or does Maemo-Qt just automatically set that on build?
Dec 01 09:29:42 <Sargun> http://lmgtfy.com/?q=podcatcher
Dec 01 09:29:50 <timeless_mbp>  Results 1 - 10 of about 31,100 for podcatching
Dec 01 09:30:08 <Sargun> what else do you call it
Dec 01 09:30:10 <timeless_mbp> Results 1 - 10 of about 30,300,000 for podcasting
Dec 01 09:30:10 <frals> podcatching, never heard that before
Dec 01 09:30:22 <timeless_mbp> i'd say anything w/ less than 100,000 hits is a typo
Dec 01 09:36:20 <DangerMaus> going to strap the feedbag on
Dec 01 09:37:07 * jaem moos at DangerMaus 
Dec 01 09:37:18 <jaem> g'night, all
Dec 01 09:37:28 <DangerMaus> nn jaem
Dec 01 09:37:52 <timeless_mbp> hrm
Dec 01 09:37:59 <timeless_mbp> there are ~250k hits for podcatcher
Dec 01 09:38:07 <timeless_mbp> v. 900k hits for podcaster
Dec 01 09:39:04 <timeless_mbp> zaheerm: what do they speak?
Dec 01 09:39:12 * timeless_mbp is too lazy to ask cia world fact book
Dec 01 09:39:28 <mece> timeless_mbp, what are you up to?
Dec 01 09:39:38 <zaheerm> timeless_mbp, english :)
Dec 01 09:39:38 <timeless_mbp> reading http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nokia.ae%2Ffind-products-ar%2Fall-phones%2Fnokia-n900%2Ffeatures&sl=ar&tl=en
Dec 01 09:40:17 <zaheerm> timeless_mbp, it is full of expats who outnumber the locals, the main language of business and pleasure is english
Dec 01 09:41:24 <timeless_mbp> zaheerm: http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nokia.ae%2Ffind-products-ar%2Fall-phones%2Fnokia-n900%2Ffeatures&sl=ar&tl=en
Dec 01 09:41:30 <timeless_mbp> can you fix "Kamiramat"
Dec 01 09:42:06 <DangerMaus> yep yep fedex just flew over while i was in the kitchen
Dec 01 09:42:23 <florian> good morning
Dec 01 09:42:37 <Shapeshifter> DangerMaus: why didn't you shoot it down
Dec 01 09:42:49 <Shapeshifter> you could have had the device in your hands in a minute.
Dec 01 09:42:56 <timeless_mbp> heh
Dec 01 09:43:03 <timeless_mbp> Shapeshifter: s/in/on/
Dec 01 09:43:07 <DangerMaus> tha woulndnt help at this point my 900 is at the sort facility already
Dec 01 09:45:44 <DangerMaus> too bad they dont deliver till like 9am at the earliest
Dec 01 09:45:51 <Shapeshifter> mhh, I have a problem with the Qt app I'm writing. It runs natively on linux as it does in scratchbox, but as soon as I add a QMenuBar, it won't show the app anymore in the SDK. It runs, but in the SDK I only see console output, no window.
Dec 01 09:45:53 <DangerMaus> maybe8
Dec 01 09:46:18 <Shapeshifter> DangerMaus: you're staying up all night waiting for it?
Dec 01 09:46:45 <DangerMaus> yepyep
Dec 01 09:47:14 <DangerMaus> was up all night lastnight shouldnt be that bad
Dec 01 09:48:08 <DangerMaus> now if the stuff i ordered lastweek would get here already but no 2 more days
Dec 01 10:04:49 <Shapeshifter> how can I find out what package version I have of a package (e.g. qt)?
Dec 01 10:06:57 <Wnt> Shapeshifter: apt-cache show pkg-name
Dec 01 10:07:28 <Shapeshifter> Wnt: thanks.
Dec 01 10:08:16 <adeus> or dpkg -l|grep pkg-name
Dec 01 10:09:04 <Shapeshifter> mhh
Dec 01 10:09:07 <Shapeshifter> this is really weird.
Dec 01 10:18:07 <timeless_mbp> dpkg -S + apt-cache show
Dec 01 10:18:24 <odin_> does a Class 6 MMC card work faster in the N900 than Class 2 (i.e. the read/write performance bottleneck is the card?)
Dec 01 10:18:41 <timeless_mbp> odin_: i highly doubt anyone here would know
Dec 01 10:18:53 <timeless_mbp> 99% of us are software people
Dec 01 10:18:59 <timeless_mbp> that's not really a software question
Dec 01 10:19:25 <odin_> I'd have thought someone might have tried it, to speed up the development process, faster card = faster turn around cycles?
Dec 01 10:19:44 <timeless_mbp> what dev process?
Dec 01 10:19:55 <timeless_mbp> no one does work on mmc's
Dec 01 10:20:05 <glass_> probably someone does
Dec 01 10:20:06 <timeless_mbp> fastest read/write is almost certainly ubifs
Dec 01 10:20:33 <glass_> but it would be a rare occasion where it would make impact on dev process
Dec 01 10:20:59 <odin_> glass_, yes in the whole mix the reload/reboot is a small part of overall time
Dec 01 10:21:16 <DangerMaus> great question odin_  i wish i knew
Dec 01 10:21:50 <DangerMaus> but i'll prob buy the class 6 anyways $$$
Dec 01 10:21:52 <odin_> timeless_mbp, what does ubifs have to do with things ?  isn't that just a fs format
Dec 01 10:22:09 <timeless_mbp> ubifs on the n900 refers to a specific volume
Dec 01 10:22:21 <timeless_mbp> most volumes have native write-leveling
Dec 01 10:22:29 <timeless_mbp> the volume hosting ubifs does not
Dec 01 10:22:32 <odin_> DangerMaus, suppler sent me a Class2 16Gb (when I ordered Class6 same brand), Class6 in short supply
Dec 01 10:22:42 <timeless_mbp> a feature of ubifs is write-leveling
Dec 01 10:22:52 <odin_> DangerMaus, thinking over if I should send it back or not, I have no card in there at the mo
Dec 01 10:22:56 <DangerMaus> odin_, ouch!
Dec 01 10:23:07 <Venomrush> how is http://maemo.org/packages/view/maemo-recorder/ different to http://maemo.org/packages/view/recorder/ :\
Dec 01 10:23:15 <timeless_mbp> Venomrush: one is obsolete
Dec 01 10:23:16 <odin_> DangerMaus, class6 is x2.2 times the price of a class2
Dec 01 10:23:20 <timeless_mbp> and really needs to be killed from the repo
Dec 01 10:23:25 <timeless_mbp> Venomrush: i haven't gotten around to filing a bug
Dec 01 10:23:37 <timeless_mbp> ideally one should have an obsoletes tag against the other
Dec 01 10:23:40 <timeless_mbp> not sure if it does
Dec 01 10:23:55 <Venomrush> so which one are we meant to be using
Dec 01 10:23:55 <DangerMaus> and from what i understand  class 6 is x6 speed  and class2 is 2x speed
Dec 01 10:24:19 <odin_> DangerMaus, yes correct, my understanding too, but for the extra speed you pay x2.2 the price
Dec 01 10:24:29 <DangerMaus> yepyep
Dec 01 10:24:31 <Venomrush> i'm assuming the higher version?
Dec 01 10:25:09 <DangerMaus> did they refund the extra $$$ by sending you a class2?
Dec 01 10:26:07 <DangerMaus> odin_, ^^
Dec 01 10:26:41 <DangerMaus> i use mostly class 6 in my camera
Dec 01 10:26:47 <odin_> DangerMaus, well I said to them (it was purchased through amazon market space from a UK supplier, I am in UK), I said, if they have a Class 6 in stock I will pay the cost of Class 2 and keep it too, but if they don't I want a refund
Dec 01 10:27:07 <odin_> DangerMaus, this is to stop being trying this method on when they know full well they dont have Class6 in stock but advertise it
Dec 01 10:27:19 <DangerMaus> heh
Dec 01 10:27:40 <odin_> DangerMaus, so will refund it and I can return it, but if I cant get Class6 anyhow, I might as well keep it and get a refund for the diff
Dec 01 10:27:52 <DangerMaus> yepyep
Dec 01 10:28:12 <timeless_mbp> odin_: there are ~3 people i think @nokia who would know
Dec 01 10:28:20 <timeless_mbp> but afaik they don't come out much
Dec 01 10:28:49 <timeless_mbp> personally, if the cost isn't much, i'd just demand the difference in value
Dec 01 10:28:59 <timeless_mbp> i doubt you'll find the extra speed in our device is important
Dec 01 10:29:07 <timeless_mbp> but, i don't build mozilla on my n900s
Dec 01 10:29:12 <timeless_mbp> and i'd hope you wouldn't either...
Dec 01 10:29:18 <aSIMULAtor> has anyone tried multitasking on android and if so how does it compare to maemo5
Dec 01 10:29:52 <odin_> well I can wait until the new year, when class6 are in stock and experiment and report it to wiki :)
Dec 01 10:29:59 <timeless_mbp> aSIMULAtor: a guy from the rtcomish team had one (htc hero?)
Dec 01 10:30:03 <timeless_mbp> i didn't like it
Dec 01 10:30:08 <timeless_mbp> i don't think he did either
Dec 01 10:30:12 <DangerMaus> i got a class 6 in my newegg cart atm fairly cheep but im still trying to find again the local co that sells generic ones well below market and ive never had an issue with them
Dec 01 10:30:48 <timeless_mbp> aSIMULAtor: btw, have you searched for Baltimore in the clock? :)
Dec 01 10:30:53 <odin_> the brand of this is Trancend (not many microSDHC at 16Gb around)
Dec 01 10:30:57 <Shapeshifter> A QMenuBar *should* be represented in maemo in the title bar menu thingy, right?
Dec 01 10:31:00 <aSIMULAtor> no, cause ther'es no use for me to :P
Dec 01 10:31:13 <timeless_mbp> aSIMULAtor: it's worth at least one giggle!
Dec 01 10:32:21 <aSIMULAtor> ok let me check
Dec 01 10:32:38 <odin_> the USB interface is not a host interface, but is there any kind of external keyring storage device that works on it?  maybe another silly question from me ?  lols
Dec 01 10:33:03 <aSIMULAtor> so no baltimore but plenty of other cities or towns around it i guess
Dec 01 10:33:04 <timeless_mbp> aSIMULAtor: i'd recommend using find
Dec 01 10:33:12 <timeless_mbp> don't try to find it yourself
Dec 01 10:33:16 <ccooke> Good Morning
Dec 01 10:33:19 <RST38h> aSIMULA: there aren't many, you know?
Dec 01 10:33:37 <DangerMaus> odin_, you on a 770?
Dec 01 10:33:45 <odin_> DangerMaus, N900
Dec 01 10:34:06 <DangerMaus> was just out there that you said mmc
Dec 01 10:34:52 <aSIMULAtor> so should baltimore be there?
Dec 01 10:34:53 <aSIMULAtor> or something
Dec 01 10:34:54 <odin_> microSDHC of course, the device interface on linux is like /dev/mmc or so, hence use of term
Dec 01 10:35:10 <DangerMaus> switch it to host mode odin_ ?
Dec 01 10:35:12 <aSIMULAtor> maybe i should bitch to the clock ppl that there's no "porter ranch" california instead i have to pick los angeles :P
Dec 01 10:35:12 <zaheerm> review of samsung h1 "We found the capacitive screen a little reluctant to respond to screen taps at times, though. Getting haptic feedback is well and good, but it does need to be accompanied by action."
Dec 01 10:35:17 <mece> is there an irc client in extras?
Dec 01 10:35:35 <aSIMULAtor> xchat
Dec 01 10:35:36 <ccooke> mece: I believe Xchat is there... might only be in extras-devel, still
Dec 01 10:35:42 <zaheerm> mece, xchat exists but i think it is in extras-devel
Dec 01 10:35:46 <odin_> DangerMaus, so with adaptor I can switch the USB to host mode and use a keyfob storage stick ?
Dec 01 10:35:56 <DangerMaus> http://wiki.maemo.org/USB_host_mode
Dec 01 10:35:58 <mece> k. I don't think I'll be enabling devel on this one though.
Dec 01 10:36:02 <DangerMaus> see if that helps
Dec 01 10:36:14 <zaheerm> mece, better not to :)
Dec 01 10:36:23 <DangerMaus> odin_, i dont have mine yet but will later today
Dec 01 10:36:31 <mece> perhaps I could just compile some client that uses curses.
Dec 01 10:36:54 <DangerMaus> http://maemo.org/community/council/wiki_articles_you-re_missing_out_on/  <<< also good reading odin_
Dec 01 10:37:08 <plr_> Lynoure: did you install esbox on windows or linux?
Dec 01 10:37:19 <timeless_mbp> aSIMULAtor: you know you can click the magnifying glass in select time zone, right?
Dec 01 10:37:22 <odin_> DangerMaus, thanks... I am also looking up "Bluetooth Storage"
Dec 01 10:37:24 * timeless_mbp sighs
Dec 01 10:37:32 <timeless_mbp> it isn't even really a time zone picker
Dec 01 10:37:34 <timeless_mbp> it's a city picker
Dec 01 10:37:41 <timeless_mbp> bug => me
Dec 01 10:37:42 <DangerMaus> np odin_
Dec 01 10:37:45 <DangerMaus> haha
Dec 01 10:38:24 <aSIMULAtor> oh ok u want me to actually search for hte city and type it in rather than on the world map
Dec 01 10:38:38 <aSIMULAtor> yes i knew there's a city picker dialog but to be honest i dont' use it
Dec 01 10:38:48 <aSIMULAtor> the cities i'm interested in are already..on the map :P
Dec 01 10:39:22 <LuciusMare> hi
Dec 01 10:39:36 <mece> anyone tried weechat?
Dec 01 10:40:00 <odin_> oh maybe bluetooth storage isn't the way to go... 0.72 Mb/sec
Dec 01 10:40:04 <zaheerm> someone should tell the firefox boys to put their nightlies in extras-devel
Dec 01 10:44:38 <timeless_mbp> aSIMULAtor: baltimore is on the map too1
Dec 01 10:44:40 <timeless_mbp> s/1/!
Dec 01 10:45:01 <timeless_mbp> aSIMULAtor: and while baltimore and guam are special
Dec 01 10:45:11 <timeless_mbp> i suspect you'll find the cities that interest you aren't much less special
Dec 01 10:45:34 <timeless_mbp> http://www.webwizardry.net/~timeless/n900/clock-notes.jpg
Dec 01 10:46:14 <Stskeeps> is that your office wall or your whiteboard?
Dec 01 10:46:19 <Stskeeps> ah, whiteboard
Dec 01 10:46:19 <timeless_mbp> whiteboard
Dec 01 10:46:21 <timeless_mbp> and not mine
Dec 01 10:46:46 <timeless_mbp> the n900 camera is actually pretty good for certain things
Dec 01 10:46:57 <SpeedEvil> Meh. Not free n900 - they took payment again today. Silly nokia.
Dec 01 10:47:00 <timeless_mbp> there's plenty of space above on that whiteboard for the rest of the cities
Dec 01 10:47:06 <Stskeeps> yeah, like digitizing whiteboards
Dec 01 10:47:11 <LuciusMare> for example,for photographing
Dec 01 10:47:12 <timeless_mbp> sadly, ergonomically
Dec 01 10:47:13 <Stskeeps> import directly to evernote..
Dec 01 10:47:14 <Stskeeps> :P
Dec 01 10:47:36 <timeless_mbp> Stskeeps: anyway, my database is kinda better
Dec 01 10:47:55 <timeless_mbp> what i really need is for someone to write an app which takes the db and plots the points onto a web page or something
Dec 01 10:48:04 <timeless_mbp> because manually moving pointers sucks
Dec 01 10:49:10 <timeless_mbp> (new wdb is up in n900/wdb fwiw)
Dec 01 10:52:03 <DangerMaus> timeless you in europe?
Dec 01 10:52:18 <timeless_mbp> unfortunately? why do you ask?
Dec 01 10:52:25 <DangerMaus> 2009-01-11  is the the first month or the 11th month
Dec 01 10:52:43 <timeless_mbp> first
Dec 01 10:52:47 <DangerMaus> k
Dec 01 10:52:54 <timeless_mbp> year major is always yyyy-mm-dd
Dec 01 10:52:59 <timeless_mbp> anyone doing something else is an idiot
Dec 01 10:53:09 <timeless_mbp> and while i know many idiots, i don't know idiots like that
Dec 01 10:53:17 <DangerMaus> im used to mm-dd-yyyy
Dec 01 10:53:22 * timeless_mbp nods
Dec 01 10:53:38 <timeless_mbp> i'm personally used to mm/dd/(yy)yy
Dec 01 10:53:44 <Myrtti> the beauty of the iso standard way is that it alphabetizes nicely
Dec 01 10:53:47 <DangerMaus> heh
Dec 01 10:53:54 <range> And it is easily understandable.
Dec 01 10:54:19 <range> No chance for misunderstandings.
Dec 01 10:55:02 <timeless_mbp> s/the/that/
Dec 01 10:55:05 <timeless_mbp> not all iso standards are good
Dec 01 10:55:16 <timeless_mbp> this specific one (or portion thereof) is actually a winner
Dec 01 10:55:35 <timeless_mbp> by contrast, iso week numbering is a loser
Dec 01 10:55:54 <DangerMaus> hehe
Dec 01 10:56:30 <DangerMaus> skip week numbering and just count the days 1 through 365 or 66 for leap
Dec 01 10:56:51 <Sargun> DangerMaus, DeadMau5?
Dec 01 10:57:10 * DangerMaus walks away
Dec 01 10:57:54 <DangerMaus> if your asking relation sargunthen no
Dec 01 10:57:58 <DangerMaus> oops
Dec 01 10:58:08 <DangerMaus> if your asking relation sargun no
Dec 01 11:01:01 <odin_> what is the name of the USB connector of N900 ?  "USB Micro B female" ?
Dec 01 11:02:00 <DangerMaus> should be
Dec 01 11:02:06 <DangerMaus> micro b
Dec 01 11:02:23 <DangerMaus> is what i bought for cables
Dec 01 11:02:57 <Termana> search for USB 2.0 A to Micro B Female / Male
Dec 01 11:03:05 <odin_> ah wikipedia have a page with diagram, looks like Micro-B to me too
Dec 01 11:03:17 <Termana> Their available on Amazon for $1.75
Dec 01 11:03:40 <DangerMaus> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Types-usb_new.svg lower right
Dec 01 11:04:15 <odin_> I am looking for cable or adaptor to make a hostmode cable, quite difficult I think as converting "USB Micro-B male" to "USB Type A receptable" is an unusual request
Dec 01 11:04:21 <DangerMaus> least were on the same page
Dec 01 11:04:49 <Lynoure> plr_: Linux
Dec 01 11:05:04 <DangerMaus> i dont know how current that article is  odin_ i linked to you
Dec 01 11:05:18 <SpeedEvil> take to cables, solder.
Dec 01 11:05:26 <DangerMaus> was like last year but provides ideas
Dec 01 11:05:43 <Lynoure> plr_: (Sorry for delay, my current paid work took over)
Dec 01 11:06:12 <mece> ls
Dec 01 11:06:18 <mece> oops
Dec 01 11:06:33 <DangerMaus> ha
Dec 01 11:06:49 <Termana> bash commands no work here silly
Dec 01 11:07:00 <Termana> don't*
Dec 01 11:07:02 <mece> they should tho.
Dec 01 11:08:28 <Termana> You could alias /ls to /list :P I assume that should be easy on irssi, don't know about xchat as I don't know its (xchat's) scripting abilities.
Dec 01 11:08:53 <mece> hey is irssi in the repositories?
Dec 01 11:09:17 <Termana> n900 repositories?
Dec 01 11:09:26 <mece> Termana, ya
Dec 01 11:09:58 <Termana> Don't know sorry - and I don't own an n900 to find out :P I know XChat is
Dec 01 11:10:34 <mece> I'm actually compiling it in the sdk atm, but I guess some folks are already using it.
Dec 01 11:13:12 <Sargun> Linux lucifer 2.6.31-gentoo-r3 #1 SMP PREEMPT Mon Nov 16 00:25:56 PST 2009 i686 Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU T9550 @ 2.66GHz GenuineIntel GNU/Linux
Dec 01 11:13:22 <Sargun> I modded my N900 and put a Core 2 in there.
Dec 01 11:14:13 <mece> ls
Dec 01 11:14:16 <mece> crap
Dec 01 11:14:25 <mece> stupid virtualbox
Dec 01 11:14:49 <SpeedEvil> Damn, the n900 _needs_ a stylus sensor.
Dec 01 11:14:58 <SpeedEvil> So it can squeal if you put it down without
Dec 01 11:15:09 <DangerMaus> haha
Dec 01 11:15:33 <DangerMaus> or nokia needs to have spares available
Dec 01 11:16:11 <mece> ls
Dec 01 11:16:15 <DangerMaus> haha
Dec 01 11:17:20 <DangerMaus> your getting good at the wrong window bit today mece
Dec 01 11:17:21 <mece> running linux mint on the other screen in virtualbox, and it looks like it's active, but you still have to click it first.
Dec 01 11:18:00 <DangerMaus> i do it in E alot not in a virtual  cant get the focus just rite
Dec 01 11:18:13 <mece> DangerMaus, quite.
Dec 01 11:18:42 <mece> oh blast there's not a premade control file and all that :@
Dec 01 11:19:14 <DangerMaus> tictoctictoc few more hours till i can dance with it
Dec 01 11:19:51 <mece> Nice to see that the N900 works with ampache straight out of the box.
Dec 01 11:22:09 * DangerMaus is jelouse
Dec 01 11:22:47 <DangerMaus> still i never thought i could order one yesterday and get it today
Dec 01 11:27:03 <Venomrush> DangerMaus: where are you ordering it from?
Dec 01 11:27:19 <DangerMaus> nokiausa
Dec 01 11:27:43 <DangerMaus> Klowner, did it too and he should get his today also
Dec 01 11:28:09 <DangerMaus> you pay a bit more but it will be in hand
Dec 01 11:28:40 <DangerMaus> dont know if the price went back up to msrp or not  after the weekend
Dec 01 11:30:34 <DangerMaus> nope still listed at the lower price Venomrush
Dec 01 11:30:45 <DangerMaus> http://store.nokia.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/productdetailbymodel_10500_10101_-1_10000367_Y
Dec 01 11:31:00 <agi> hi
Dec 01 11:31:27 <DangerMaus> hi
Dec 01 11:33:44 <agi> any news/hints on bugs 6334/6350?
Dec 01 11:34:07 <DangerMaus> yikes
Dec 01 11:34:31 <agi> indeed, happening here all the time
Dec 01 11:35:35 <Stskeeps> agi: the bug is certainly been given attention to
Dec 01 11:35:51 <Stskeeps> if you have Eero looking at it, you got one of the best guys on it :P
Dec 01 11:35:54 <DangerMaus> bad bug it is.. i had just checked it and nothing new
Dec 01 11:36:57 <agi> Stskeeps: thanks, if I can be of any help, just let me know
Dec 01 11:37:20 <agi> not a maemo hacker but quite experienced gnu/linux sysadmin
Dec 01 11:38:48 <DangerMaus> Stskeeps, is this widespread or just realy over in like italy and finnland ect..
Dec 01 11:38:57 <agi> I'm in Spain
Dec 01 11:39:20 <agi> and it's happening in the UK too
Dec 01 11:39:22 <Stskeeps> DangerMaus: i am not a nokia employee, just for good measure. i don't have those issues and i'm on 42-11, but with a summit device
Dec 01 11:39:35 <DangerMaus> ok
Dec 01 11:39:57 <Stskeeps> i'm just saying that there seems to be a capable nokian on the case
Dec 01 11:40:07 <DangerMaus> oh yeqah totaly
Dec 01 11:40:11 <DangerMaus> yeah
Dec 01 11:40:32 <agi> I'm new to maemo.org BTS, in order to add a comment yo just reply the last one?
Dec 01 11:40:44 <Stskeeps> yes, or in the top
Dec 01 11:41:31 <timeless_mbp> agi: um
Dec 01 11:41:36 <timeless_mbp> don't "reply"
Dec 01 11:41:39 <timeless_mbp> just add your comment
Dec 01 11:41:57 <timeless_mbp> this isn't a mailing list, everything that exists in the bug will effectively always exist in the bug
Dec 01 11:42:11 <RST38h> Mhm...Everybody and their dog seems to be royally disappointed at the Maemo 2010 plans
Dec 01 11:42:20 <Stskeeps> +rumoured
Dec 01 11:42:51 <timeless_mbp> we have plans?
Dec 01 11:43:18 <agi> timeless_mbp: thanks, I couldn't find the 'add comment' :)
Dec 01 11:43:21 <RST38h> Sts: As developers all say that they "have no idea what Maemo6 will look like", the info sounds credible
Dec 01 11:43:26 <timeless_mbp> agi: you probably forgot to log in
Dec 01 11:43:46 <agi> timeless_mbp: nope, not that :)
Dec 01 11:43:49 <DangerMaus> oh geez
Dec 01 11:44:02 <timeless_mbp> agi: there's a sizeable text area...
Dec 01 11:44:08 <Stskeeps> RST38h: it will be with comic sans and drawn in a cartoonish way, of course
Dec 01 11:44:19 <w00t> Stskeeps: you forgot the 'omgponies' theme
Dec 01 11:44:30 <agi> aahhhhh now I see it, to obvious for me! :D
Dec 01 11:44:32 <agi> timeless_mbp: thanks
Dec 01 11:44:46 <timeless_mbp> agi: but please, don't add comments that aren't necessary
Dec 01 11:45:09 <DangerMaus> agi, top of list aditional comments and just below the  'commit' button]
Dec 01 11:45:22 <timeless_mbp> DangerMaus: technically it depends on your configuration :)
Dec 01 11:45:38 <timeless_mbp> for me, the comment box is just above the most recent comment
Dec 01 11:45:48 <DangerMaus> hmmm
Dec 01 11:45:57 <agi> timeless_mbp: ok, won't do
Dec 01 11:45:58 <DangerMaus> that would be better
Dec 01 11:46:50 <DangerMaus> timeless, is it a diff login from maemo,org?
Dec 01 11:47:29 <DangerMaus> timeless_mbp  is it a diff login from maemo,org?
Dec 01 11:48:14 <RST38h> Sts: Oh yesss
Dec 01 11:50:31 <rrr__> anyone here familiar with powervr sdk?
Dec 01 11:52:12 <Stskeeps> RST38h: that said, mixed with hello kitty, it would be a hit
Dec 01 11:52:30 <w00t> Stskeeps: you have now inspired my first wallpaper change in a long time
Dec 01 11:52:32 <w00t> i hope you're happy.
Dec 01 11:53:10 <agi> lol
Dec 01 11:53:19 <Stskeeps> not until i don't have to think about hip surgeries daily
Dec 01 11:53:38 <w00t> what.
Dec 01 11:54:00 <Stskeeps> thesis
Dec 01 11:54:52 <w00t> haha
Dec 01 11:55:01 <LuciusMare> hi
Dec 01 11:56:03 <DangerMaus> eeks
Dec 01 12:04:31 * ccooke discovers (probably after everyone else) about the uk vodafone exclusive 
Dec 01 12:04:43 <mece_> asdf
Dec 01 12:04:49 <mece_> hm ok. irssi seems nice.
Dec 01 12:04:51 <Stskeeps> ghjkl;
Dec 01 12:04:52 <Stskeeps> :P
Dec 01 12:05:56 <ccooke> mece_: recommended from here :-)
Dec 01 12:06:26 * ccooke has been using irssi for some years now
Dec 01 12:06:27 <mece_> my completely vanilla deb installed it to /usr/local, and it's not in the default path it appears.
Dec 01 12:07:04 <SpeedEvil> ccooke: ?
Dec 01 12:07:06 <plr_> irssi is awesome
Dec 01 12:07:08 <ccooke> this is on a tablet?
Dec 01 12:07:19 <mece_> ccooke, ye
Dec 01 12:07:20 <Lupu> mece_: But ssh is. *grin* :D
Dec 01 12:07:24 <ccooke> mece_: which one?
Dec 01 12:07:31 <ccooke> SpeedEvil: hmm?
Dec 01 12:07:33 <mece_> ccooke, N900
Dec 01 12:07:40 <ccooke> mece_: oooh, where's the .deb?
Dec 01 12:07:50 <mece_> ccooke, on my computer
Dec 01 12:07:54 <ccooke> :-)
Dec 01 12:07:59 <mece_> ccooke, I just compiled it 5 minutes ago
Dec 01 12:08:04 <ccooke> ah, fair enough
Dec 01 12:08:14 <SpeedEvil> ccooke: vodafone
Dec 01 12:08:23 <ccooke> SpeedEvil: oh. http://www.mobile-users.net/2009/11/25/n900-exclusivity-update/
Dec 01 12:08:34 <ccooke> SpeedEvil: note that I've only seen it there - it might not be true.
Dec 01 12:08:44 <ccooke> Only came across the story a few minutes ago
Dec 01 12:08:51 <mece_> ccooke, and I didn't edit the control file or anything, so it's not "proper".
Dec 01 12:09:11 <ccooke> *nod*
Dec 01 12:09:15 <RST38h> Sts: I especially like that Comic font idea =)
Dec 01 12:09:48 <RST38h> Sts: Seriously, though, we do know a few things. The desktop will apparently become a huge 2D canvas with app windows all over
Dec 01 12:10:02 <RST38h> Sts: Not sure how useful that will be, but it was in the presentation
Dec 01 12:10:10 <LuciusMare> I know this is an Off Topic,but nobody else on other channels could answer me - or they didnt even try
Dec 01 12:10:22 <SpeedEvil> RST38h: insane
Dec 01 12:10:35 <hrw> I HATE SBOX even more now
Dec 01 12:10:41 <SpeedEvil> RST38h: Discrete desktops are pretty much mandatory
Dec 01 12:10:43 <LuciusMare> What is wrong with this sudoers line? lucius ALL = NOPASSWD: /usr/bin/wminput - it still prompts me for password
Dec 01 12:10:44 <zaheerm> were they app windows or applets?
Dec 01 12:11:01 <hrw> you guys are great - using such crap and getting something working
Dec 01 12:11:30 <RST38h> SpeedEvil: I am also very sceptical on this :(
Dec 01 12:11:54 <SpeedEvil> RST38h: And I've _used_ a large virtual desktop on a 640*480 display
Dec 01 12:11:58 <Stskeeps> hrw: i loathe sbox too but it pays decently off knowing a bit about it
Dec 01 12:11:58 <Stskeeps> :P
Dec 01 12:11:59 <RST38h> SpeedEvil: but there may be ways to make it work
Dec 01 12:12:02 <SpeedEvil> RST38h: (though it was a few years ago now.)
Dec 01 12:12:09 <hrw> Stskeeps: sure
Dec 01 12:13:12 <plr_> I'm stuck due to not knowing how to get samba installed on scratchbox..
Dec 01 12:13:48 <hrw> plr_: what for?
Dec 01 12:14:00 <hrw> plr_: sbox is not emulating device
Dec 01 12:14:41 <plr_> hrw: getting a share to work between windows and sbox in order to be able to do development there
Dec 01 12:15:02 <hrw> plr_: sbox run in linux vm?
Dec 01 12:15:15 <plr_> hrw: yes
Dec 01 12:15:32 <hrw> plr_: install samba in linux vm not in sbox
Dec 01 12:16:00 <hrw> plr_: then configure linuxvm to connect to windows share somewhere in /scratchbox/
Dec 01 12:16:17 <mikedg-blau> hi
Dec 01 12:16:17 <plr_> hrw: hmm I think it has it installed
Dec 01 12:16:28 <hrw> so configure it
Dec 01 12:16:49 <plr_> hrw: the share connecting is done in the esbox automatically, cannot really configure it myself like that
Dec 01 12:17:01 <hrw> plr_: never used esbox
Dec 01 12:17:19 <plr_> oh wait, I guess it let's me choose the directory
Dec 01 12:19:46 <RST38h> SpeedEvil: It may be possible to make this plan useful with dynamic scaling,, kinda like better Maemo5 task switcher
Dec 01 12:20:06 <RST38h> SpeedEvil: I.e. you get an additional dimension of "height" above the desktop
Dec 01 12:20:11 <hrw> heh... I cannot develop my app for maemo5 ;(
Dec 01 12:20:18 <hrw> no gstreamer-modplug built
Dec 01 12:20:20 <mikedg-blau> why?
Dec 01 12:20:32 <mikedg-blau> build it on an n900
Dec 01 12:20:34 <SpeedEvil> RST38h: yeah
Dec 01 12:20:40 <SpeedEvil> RST38h: 4:3 FTW!
Dec 01 12:20:40 <RST38h> compile it
Dec 01 12:20:49 <hrw> mikedg-blau: which n900?
Dec 01 12:21:08 <mikedg-blau> the one in my pants
Dec 01 12:21:12 <SpeedEvil> RST38h: also perhaps accellerometer scrolling.
Dec 01 12:21:36 <hrw> mikedg-blau: it does not responds
Dec 01 12:21:38 <RST38h> Speed: kinetic, you mean?
Dec 01 12:22:35 <zap_> Does latest ke-recv from Nokia SVN work on Maemo 4, or it is Maemo 5 only?
Dec 01 12:22:36 <SpeedEvil> RST38h: something like that.
Dec 01 12:22:44 <SpeedEvil> RST38h: I'm unsure how well that'd work though
Dec 01 12:23:06 <Stskeeps> zap_: probably only on m5
Dec 01 12:23:21 <RST38h> Speed: Just because it sounds cool, does not mean it will be usable
Dec 01 12:23:22 <zap_> so its not backward compatible?
Dec 01 12:23:46 <Stskeeps> zap_: doubt it.
Dec 01 12:23:57 <RST38h> Anyone with SDL knowledge?
Dec 01 12:24:24 <mece> howcome irssi is not in the erpository?
Dec 01 12:24:51 <SpeedEvil> RST38h: yeah.
Dec 01 12:25:02 <SpeedEvil> RST38h: Been through that with openmoko
Dec 01 12:25:15 <mikedg-blau> anyone know old people with kindles, like 65+
Dec 01 12:28:20 <DangerMaus> almost
Dec 01 12:28:35 <plr_> nice, qt 4.6 released
Dec 01 12:28:36 <DangerMaus> but my pops thought better of it
Dec 01 12:28:50 <plr_> with new version for maemo as well
Dec 01 12:29:08 <mece> plr_, v. nice!
Dec 01 12:29:56 <plr_> also qt mobility api seems to be available too
Dec 01 12:30:45 <HuescaRed> Hi, I am trying to use displaylink with my nokia i810 but I can't get working the framebuffer, any idea?
Dec 01 12:30:45 <ifvoid> hi!
Dec 01 12:30:56 <ifvoid> I'm compiling a program for maemo
Dec 01 12:31:08 <ifvoid> but when I run it, I get "./nfb: relocation error: ./nfb: symbol powf, version GLIBCXX_3.4 not defined in file libstdc++.so.6 with link time reference"
Dec 01 12:31:14 <ifvoid> anyone got an idea of how to solve that?
Dec 01 12:34:24 <hrw> hildon-home[7981]: GLIB CRITICAL ** GLib - g_parse_long_long: assertion `nptr != NULL' failed
Dec 01 12:34:29 <hrw> thats normal?
Dec 01 12:36:53 <hrw> or that: /usr/bin/make: relocation error: /scratchbox/host_shared/lib/libdl.so.2: symbol _dl_catch_error, version GLIBC_PRIVATE not defined in file ld-linux.so.2 with link time reference
Dec 01 12:37:06 <mikedg-blau> does maemo support kindle
Dec 01 12:37:30 <hrw> mikedg-blau: amazon kindle?
Dec 01 12:37:35 <SpeedEvil> mikedg-blau: no
Dec 01 12:37:54 <SpeedEvil> mikedg-blau: kindle is a program that they -amazon - would have to make available.
Dec 01 12:38:17 <SpeedEvil> (in addition to a device - if you're asking can I run maemo on my kindle - the answer is no)
Dec 01 12:38:26 <HuescaRed> anybody has worked with displaylink?
Dec 01 12:43:03 <hrw> enough is enough
Dec 01 12:43:25 <hrw> if even libtool does needs to be adapted to just build application then sbox is not for me
Dec 01 12:45:13 <derf> libtool breaks almost everywhere.
Dec 01 12:45:17 <derf> This should not be a surprise.
Dec 01 12:46:03 <hrw> derf: I am able to cross compile software for other platforms
Dec 01 12:46:44 <hrw> but "./configure;make" failing on libtool? how Debian can get broken that much?
Dec 01 12:49:18 <konttori_work_no> Hi guys!
Dec 01 12:49:25 <konttori_work_no> we have a problem for SSU.
Dec 01 12:49:36 <konttori_work_no> python on the extras is not optified
Dec 01 12:49:44 <konttori_work_no> and it's taking too much rootfs space
Dec 01 12:49:58 <lizardo> konttori_work_no: there is an optified version in extras-devel
Dec 01 12:50:06 <konttori_work_no> python in extras-devel is optified. Does anybody know why not upload that to extras?
Dec 01 12:50:11 <lizardo> konttori_work_no: but for some reason it is not getting automatically promoted :(
Dec 01 12:50:26 <konttori_work_no> oh. Perhaps apps need to depend on specific version?
Dec 01 12:50:26 <RST38h> konttori: Because the guy who uploaded it to -devel is too lazy to promote it? =)
Dec 01 12:50:28 <lizardo> konttori_work_no: it should have been automatically promoted to extras-testing already
Dec 01 12:50:39 <lizardo> konttori_work_no: I will ask on the list
Dec 01 12:50:46 <konttori_work_no> lizardo, thanks
Dec 01 12:50:58 <konttori_work_no> and we need to make it that apps update to using that asap
Dec 01 12:51:06 <lizardo> RST38h: well, I uploaded it :P Niels requested dependencies to not be promoted manually to extras-testing
Dec 01 12:51:07 <konttori_work_no> so that end users will also get upgraded to that one
Dec 01 12:51:07 <zaheerm> lizardo, you have to specifically promote it to testing i think
Dec 01 12:51:17 <lizardo> and instead let application pull it from extras-devel
Dec 01 12:51:22 <RST38h> lizardo: Ah! Well, can't wait for Niels...
Dec 01 12:51:46 <zaheerm> lizardo, aah. i get you :(
Dec 01 12:51:48 * RST38h asks the Tentacled One to keep Niels out of harm's way. For now, anyway
Dec 01 12:52:04 <lizardo> zaheerm: well, that was not what I've been told :( it was working for previous version, but right now it seems the automatic promotion system is not working
Dec 01 12:52:06 <zaheerm> so someone needs to dep on the new python specifically :)
Dec 01 12:52:12 <RST38h> lizardo: It cannot remain in -devel for long, really =(
Dec 01 12:52:27 <RST38h> lizardo: Too much stuff depends on it, and it is too large for / anyway
Dec 01 12:52:36 <lizardo> zaheerm: I don't think so
Dec 01 12:52:37 <konttori_work_no> I completely agree
Dec 01 12:52:47 <lizardo> zaheerm: there is something *very* broken with the automatic promotion system
Dec 01 12:52:53 <zaheerm> lizardo, maybe the next zoutube i promote to testing, i will specify minimum python version to be optified one
Dec 01 12:53:14 <zaheerm> lizardo, that should auto promote it...
Dec 01 12:53:25 <zaheerm> even if it is not the intended way
Dec 01 12:53:35 <lizardo> zaheerm: please git it a try :)
Dec 01 12:53:42 <lizardo> zaheerm: but I think something else is broken
Dec 01 12:54:09 <lizardo> zaheerm: for a couple of weeks I noticed no other new versions of any PyMaemo packages got automatically promoted as before
Dec 01 12:54:20 <lizardo> anyway, time to send a e-mail to the list
Dec 01 12:54:51 <hrw> I had to not report bugs before getting device but looks like DDP waits for maemo6 devices to be ready first so bug #6474 was added.
Dec 01 12:54:52 <povbot> Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6474 libqt4-dev ships libphonon.so symlink but do not depend on libphonon-dev package
Dec 01 12:58:52 <lizardo> mail sent to the list , lets hope it gets fixed ASAP
Dec 01 13:03:43 <HuescaRed> anybody has worked with displaylink?
Dec 01 13:06:13 <lardman> re
Dec 01 13:07:58 <hrw> http://marcin.juszkiewicz.com.pl/tmp/pic12.jpg
Dec 01 13:08:05 <derf> Moo lardman.
Dec 01 13:08:18 <hrw> lardman: what do you think?
Dec 01 13:09:09 <lcuk> hi lardman, theres a cunning plan underway to keep your fridge safe from bacon thieves
Dec 01 13:09:17 <lcuk> hey hrw thats cool
Dec 01 13:09:38 <lardman> hrw: the wonders of Qt! :)
Dec 01 13:09:44 <zaheerm> is the maemo5 calendar using eds or calendar-backend from maemo gitorious?
Dec 01 13:10:39 <lardman> hrw: needs more bling
Dec 01 13:11:31 <hrw> lardman: needs lot of work
Dec 01 13:11:38 <lardman> derf: hey
Dec 01 13:11:46 <lardman> hrw: what's your goal?
Dec 01 13:12:06 <hrw> lardman: anyway it will not be released for maemo5 in 2009 rather
Dec 01 13:12:07 <lardman> lcuk: what's that about fridges?
Dec 01 13:12:21 <hrw> lardman: read my blog
Dec 01 13:12:50 <lardman> By Your Command
Dec 01 13:13:03 <lcuk> lardman, see stskeeps and lbt they have a cunning plan to safeguard your bacon
Dec 01 13:13:12 <lbt> how do I screenshot an app on N900 ?
Dec 01 13:13:32 <Stskeeps> ctrl-shift-p
Dec 01 13:13:32 <hrw> lardman: shift-ctrl-p?
Dec 01 13:13:34 <plr_> ctrl-shift-p was it?
Dec 01 13:13:42 <lbt> ta
Dec 01 13:13:53 * lbt has 3 screenshots now :)
Dec 01 13:13:59 <plr_> there is also an app that adds an icon for it in the status menu
Dec 01 13:14:00 <hrw> food time
Dec 01 13:14:07 <plr_> lbt :)
Dec 01 13:15:07 <lardman> hrw|afk: sorry was trying to work out what lcuk's on about :)
Dec 01 13:15:41 <lbt> OK  I do like the 'share piccy' thing.... that's nice
Dec 01 13:15:54 <lardman> lcuk: bit slow today, what are you talking about>?!
Dec 01 13:15:58 <lcuk> dont worry
Dec 01 13:16:25 * lardman descends back into his sore throat induced stupor
Dec 01 13:16:27 <Stskeeps> lardman: o2 joggler at 99 quid
Dec 01 13:16:28 <Stskeeps> :P
Dec 01 13:16:59 <Venomrush> joggler is a joke
Dec 01 13:17:02 <Khertan> http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/pygtkeditor/3.0.0-5 <---- Still require some testers or vote !
Dec 01 13:17:08 <lbt> not with Mer on it Venomrush
Dec 01 13:17:13 <lbt> it's fully hackable
Dec 01 13:17:50 <lardman> ah I see
Dec 01 13:17:50 <Venomrush> what can you do after hack
Dec 01 13:17:52 <lardman> looks cool
Dec 01 13:17:57 <Stskeeps> Venomrush: run linux os of choice?
Dec 01 13:18:17 <lbt> Venomrush: xterm
Dec 01 13:18:23 <lbt> what more is there in life?
Dec 01 13:18:44 <Venomrush> does it have good specs tho?
Dec 01 13:19:09 <Stskeeps> 1.33ghz, 512m, usb host, wlan and eth
Dec 01 13:19:18 <lardman> hw accel?
Dec 01 13:19:19 <Stskeeps> 7" 800x480
Dec 01 13:19:25 <Stskeeps> lardman: intel gl
Dec 01 13:20:53 <Stskeeps> lardman: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbCXLyb6oJQ
Dec 01 13:21:06 <lardman> no audio at work
Dec 01 13:21:09 <Stskeeps> no need for it
Dec 01 13:21:15 <lardman> k
Dec 01 13:21:49 <lardman> mmmm, >300fps
Dec 01 13:22:15 <Jaffa> af'noon, all
Dec 01 13:22:54 <lardman> hey Jaffa
Dec 01 13:23:42 <lardman> looks cool
Dec 01 13:23:55 <detective> hey! good evening :D
Dec 01 13:24:05 <lardman> so it has an xterm? or is flashable somehow?
Dec 01 13:24:11 <lardman> or is it already running Mer? ;)
Dec 01 13:24:18 <Stskeeps> lardman: runs mer already, has a efi bootloader
Dec 01 13:24:20 * Jaffa mutters about community discussions spread over 3 places
Dec 01 13:25:12 <detective> i love you all and maemo :)
Dec 01 13:25:33 * lardman puts his back to the wall
Dec 01 13:25:41 <lardman> hello detective
Dec 01 13:26:42 * lardman wonders about intercepting the TrafficMaster info
Dec 01 13:26:50 <lardman> that would be reason enough to buy it
Dec 01 13:29:21 <lcuk> Jaffa, it will happen, did you see my suggestion anywhere to try talk.maemo.org but only showing the thanks posts within a thread.
Dec 01 13:29:21 <lcuk> to see how a moderated version would look
Dec 01 13:29:34 <lardman> just remove tmo from the karma calc ;)
Dec 01 13:29:41 <lcuk> lol
Dec 01 13:29:56 <Jaffa> lcuk: heh
Dec 01 13:30:05 <lcuk> :D wow it works
Dec 01 13:30:11 <lcuk> just not for lardman
Dec 01 13:31:09 * Jaffa gets annoyed when someone (Quim in this case) cuts off a discussion with "you're repeating what's been discussed in brainstorm and tmo", when -community is the obviously superior place since it's followed by bergie et al
Dec 01 13:31:39 <lardman> and since most of us can't be arsed to follow 40-odd pages of >90% waffle in TMO anyway ;)
Dec 01 13:31:52 <lardman> so what do Openpeak.com do?
Dec 01 13:32:00 <guardian> with maemo 5, is GTK still used?
Dec 01 13:32:06 <lardman> yes
Dec 01 13:32:34 <guardian> but applications will be able to use Qt?
Dec 01 13:32:40 <guardian> at least it's how i understood it
Dec 01 13:32:45 <lardman> they are able to do so, yes
Dec 01 13:32:48 <mikhas> guardian, there is #qt-maemo
Dec 01 13:32:52 <lardman> but then they are also able in Diablo
Dec 01 13:33:03 <lardman> mikhas: really?
Dec 01 13:33:05 <mikhas> the topic links will answer most of your questions already
Dec 01 13:33:12 <Jaffa> lardman: ..and I'm still not convinced about Brainstorm being anything other than the idiocy of crowds (perhaps other Brainstorms are better, but the concept seems so useless)
Dec 01 13:33:28 <lardman> Jaffa: I never look at it
Dec 01 13:33:37 <guardian> i'm about to revamp an input method module for maemo that i coded with GTK back in time, am I better off continuing using GTK for this purpose?
Dec 01 13:33:44 <lardman> seems to me to be some sort of forum, and why do we need another?
Dec 01 13:34:08 <mikhas> guardian, if your app is GTK, then continue using GTK, it is only small changes
Dec 01 13:34:08 <lardman> guardian: probably as we don;'t know what the input framework looks like for Qt do we?
Dec 01 13:34:28 <mikhas> *if* it is only small changes, I mean
Dec 01 13:34:40 <mikhas> only switch to qt if you intend a full port anyway
Dec 01 13:35:02 <Stskeeps> guardian: yes, if it's HIM
Dec 01 13:35:26 <guardian> lardman: i don't know either what the input framework looks like for Qt -- i wasn't sure maemo 5 was built around hildon, it has been a long time since i didn't really follow what's going on with maemo :/
Dec 01 13:35:42 <Jaffa> lardman: It's a forum with limited replies, voting on unimplementable solutions and no ability to edit solutions as ideas progress (crucial in a real brainstorm), discussion (crucial in a real brainstorm), consensus building (...) and the recognition of who is the expert (...)
Dec 01 13:36:04 <PolarFox> mmmh... Does anyone know why maemo-sdk.garage.maemo.org apt repo doesn't include all files?
Dec 01 13:36:06 <lardman> Jaffa: in which case I'm glad I ignore it
Dec 01 13:36:08 <lardman> :)
Dec 01 13:36:13 <PolarFox> ubuntu repo that is ;)
Dec 01 13:36:27 <PolarFox> maemo-sdk deb is missing for example :)
Dec 01 13:36:51 <Jaffa> lardman: Indeed. WHich is why I ignore it too.
Dec 01 13:37:11 <lardman> Anyway, back to the important things, the Joggler, which is apparently a rebranded Openpeak device
Dec 01 13:37:13 <guardian> and to newcomers to the maemo platform, wanting to code an app from scratch? what do you suggest here? go GTK or go Qt?
Dec 01 13:37:22 <lardman> openpeak also do an opentablet, which looks cool
Dec 01 13:37:32 <lardman> though are they just a design house or somesuch?
Dec 01 13:37:46 <Stskeeps> probably
Dec 01 13:37:49 <Stskeeps> OEM
Dec 01 13:37:51 <Jaffa> guardian: Gtk for now, although there's been a new version of Qt announced today.
Dec 01 13:38:01 <lardman> Stskeeps: ok
Dec 01 13:38:14 <lardman> Stskeeps: I like the Joggler, but would be better not tired to a socket
Dec 01 13:38:21 <Stskeeps> yeah
Dec 01 13:38:22 <lardman> s/tired/tied
Dec 01 13:38:28 <Stskeeps> it is a different device but still nice :)
Dec 01 13:38:50 <guardian> Jaffa: thx for your opinion
Dec 01 13:38:56 <Jaffa> Joggler's similar to a slimmer Chumby
Dec 01 13:38:59 <Jaffa> ?
Dec 01 13:39:03 <PolarFox> onion_: Come on... help me out here ;)
Dec 01 13:39:05 <Jaffa> guardian: np
Dec 01 13:39:07 <Stskeeps> joggler's 7"
Dec 01 13:39:18 <Jaffa> Interesting.
Dec 01 13:39:19 <guardian> Jaffa: today's Qt announcement is precisely what made me think about my old maemo devs again :)
Dec 01 13:39:36 <lardman> was there an announcement today then?
Dec 01 13:39:44 <Jaffa> guardian: Qt's still in flux, whereas Gtk/Hildon is mature
Dec 01 13:39:55 <Jaffa> lardman: New Qt 4.6 IIRC
Dec 01 13:40:33 <mikhas> guardian, link?
Dec 01 13:40:48 <lardman> ok, the one Maemo 6 will use?
Dec 01 13:40:56 <Jaffa> mikhas: I saw it on pmo/Twitter
Dec 01 13:40:58 <guardian> Jaffa: but GTK doesn't compete with Qt when it's about the new animation features etc it seems -- if I had to stay with GTK then I would use clutter
Dec 01 13:41:01 <Jaffa> lardman: yup
Dec 01 13:41:02 <guardian> mikhas: link to?
Dec 01 13:41:06 <mikhas> ah ok
Dec 01 13:41:53 <lardman> anyone got the url of the announcement, or was it a gitorious thing?
Dec 01 13:42:20 <guardian> lardman: it's on the Qt blog
Dec 01 13:42:28 <lardman> ok
Dec 01 13:42:35 <plr_> http://labs.trolltech.com/blogs/2009/12/01/qt-460-released-early-due-to-good-behaviour/
Dec 01 13:42:50 <RST38h> <YAWN> What? Where? What announcement?
Dec 01 13:42:52 <lbt> http://qt.nokia.com/about/news/nokia-releases-qt-4.6
Dec 01 13:43:03 <guardian> http://labs.trolltech.com/blogs/2009/12/01/qt-for-maemo-5-next-iteration/
Dec 01 13:43:18 <guardian> mikhas: was it the link to the announcement that you wanted?
Dec 01 13:44:00 <lardman> thanks chaps
Dec 01 13:44:22 <dneary> hi
Dec 01 13:44:48 <dneary> anyone here have any insights into stuff which should go onto a "Creating digital media with Maemo" wiki page?
Dec 01 13:45:08 <RST38h> dneary: "Camera still sucks in anything but bright sunlight"
Dec 01 13:45:21 <lardman> RST38h: camera or autofocus?
Dec 01 13:45:25 <lardman> works for me
Dec 01 13:45:32 <dneary> I need links to things like taking & sharing photos, using the phone as a drawing tablet, taking video, video editing if that exists, transcoding & streaming, using the TV Out
Dec 01 13:45:32 <lardman> hey dneary
Dec 01 13:45:54 <dneary> Recording audio, making podcasts, anything like that
Dec 01 13:45:55 <RST38h> lardman: Camera
Dec 01 13:45:58 <lcuk> dneary, i think you should put some digital media into the wiki page about "creating digital media with maemo"
Dec 01 13:46:14 * lcuk is seeing content creation happen every minute
Dec 01 13:46:52 <zaheerm> mostly in shipping threads ;)
Dec 01 13:46:58 <dneary> See http://wiki.maemo.org/Creating_media
Dec 01 13:47:01 <lcuk> lol thats entropy
Dec 01 13:47:05 <Jaffa> zaheerm: "content"?!
Dec 01 13:47:10 * Jaffa swims
Dec 01 13:47:17 <lcuk> dneary, wiki is itself digital media
Dec 01 13:47:19 <zaheerm> Jaffa, i never said good content :)
Dec 01 13:47:22 <lcuk> irc
Dec 01 13:47:28 <dneary> lcuk, Happy to! Do you know how to embed YouTube or Vimeo video in a wiki page?
Dec 01 13:47:29 <lcuk> content creation on the go
Dec 01 13:47:39 <lcuk> dont know if you can dneary
Dec 01 13:47:45 <lcuk> but digital media doesnt have to be complex
Dec 01 13:47:50 <lcuk> its as simple as ascii text
Dec 01 13:47:58 <dneary> lcuk, I'm aiming for beginner material
Dec 01 13:48:53 <dneary> It seems to me that all the wiki docs so far have been to answer the question "how can I make my N900 do what it wasn't designed to do?" and not so much "What can I do with my N900?"
Dec 01 13:49:28 <dneary> lcuk, If you don't mind, I'd like to limit the page to audio, video, graphics and perhaps rich text?
Dec 01 13:50:15 <lcuk> then you are missing one of the most vibrant parts of content on the n900.  conversations and text messages.  the written word is one of our finest forms of communication
Dec 01 13:50:58 <toggles_w> are any suppliers shipping reliably in the US aside from possibly nokia?
Dec 01 13:51:23 <lcuk> people use n900 now to send hundreds of messages to loved ones and friends every day
Dec 01 13:51:31 <lcuk> if thats not using it now for what it needs i dont know what is
Dec 01 13:51:47 <hrw|afk> lardman: readed?
Dec 01 13:54:09 <DangerMaus> toggles_w, i ordered yesterday from nokiausa and it will be in muy hands by 3pm today  as far as others i hear horror stories
Dec 01 13:54:53 <DangerMaus> and seem to still be stuck on preorders or not selling atm
Dec 01 13:55:11 <Khertan> http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/pygtkeditor/3.0.0-5 <---- Still require some testers or vote !
Dec 01 13:55:24 <RST38h> dneary: "What can I do" thing should be answered in the user' smanual, no?
Dec 01 13:55:46 <toggles_w> DangerMaus: thanks mate, website or phone?
Dec 01 13:56:21 <DangerMaus> website and took 1-3 day delivery
Dec 01 13:56:30 <toggles_w> DangerMaus: thanks again!
Dec 01 13:56:39 <DangerMaus> but they say phone  prob the same
Dec 01 13:56:44 <DangerMaus> np
Dec 01 13:57:13 <hrw|afk> ~curse Harald Fernengel for crappy qt packages
Dec 01 13:57:14 <infobot> May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, Harald Fernengel for crappy qt packages !
Dec 01 13:57:28 <DangerMaus> if you credit card messes up on the site they have the credit card security set realy high
Dec 01 13:57:34 <toggles_w> DangerMaus: one more q, is there the $50 rebate with that?
Dec 01 13:58:22 <DangerMaus> i didnt see it on the nokia site  but at this point i didnt care i just didnt want to wait till 2010 or end of the month
Dec 01 13:58:30 <toggles_w> ok, thanks
Dec 01 13:58:34 <dneary> RST38h, Except we're getting lots of people asking "what can I do?" questions
Dec 01 13:58:40 <DangerMaus> qwe will see if there is anything in the box
Dec 01 13:58:47 <dneary> Or, not finding answers to simple stuff like "how can I record video?"
Dec 01 13:58:48 <yannj_fr> Khertan : one more vote for PyGTKEditor...
Dec 01 13:58:51 <dneary> For example, me
Dec 01 13:59:10 <Khertan> yannj_fr: thanks !
Dec 01 13:59:11 <Lynoure> dneary: that took some wondering at Maemo summit already :)
Dec 01 13:59:15 <DangerMaus> toggles_w, only issue is if they have a store in your state like here the'll hit you for tax
Dec 01 13:59:25 <Lynoure> the GUI is not always the most intuitive.
Dec 01 13:59:27 <dneary> Lynoure, My point exactly
Dec 01 13:59:49 <dneary> It's something I bet we all struggled with first time, and yet no-one's written a nice little tutorial yet
Dec 01 13:59:51 <Lynoure> dneary: I have not yet figured out how to use the front camera =)
Dec 01 13:59:58 <Lynoure> Not that I have tried very hard.
Dec 01 14:00:22 <dneary> Lynoure, Normally, it's as easy as "open the lens"
Dec 01 14:00:24 <toggles_w> DangerMaus: in pa, don't thinks sp
Dec 01 14:00:32 <dneary> Lynoure, And the camera app starts up on its own
Dec 01 14:00:35 <Lynoure> dneary: front camera has nothing to open
Dec 01 14:00:37 <DangerMaus> heh
Dec 01 14:00:41 <Lynoure> dneary: only the back one.
Dec 01 14:00:42 <zaheerm> dneary, he means the front one not the back one :)
Dec 01 14:00:52 <Lynoure> zaheerm: she, but yeah :)
Dec 01 14:01:07 <hrw> optifying maemo5 can result in nicely fucked system...
Dec 01 14:01:17 <zaheerm> Lynoure, gst-launch v4l2camsrc ! ffmpegcolorspace ! videoscale ! xvimagesink :)
Dec 01 14:01:22 <hrw> having 11 versions of libsqlite3 for example
Dec 01 14:01:27 <zaheerm> Lynoure, sorry about that :)
Dec 01 14:01:38 <zaheerm> Lynoure, you can also install the mirror app which i think is in extras-testing
Dec 01 14:01:42 <Lynoure> zaheerm: heh :)
Dec 01 14:01:47 <ccooke> hrw: ugh. how did that happen?
Dec 01 14:01:59 <ccooke> it really shouldn't do that...
Dec 01 14:02:06 <hrw> ccooke: my maemosdk has now two libphonon libraries
Dec 01 14:02:12 <hrw> two Qt libraries
Dec 01 14:02:24 <Lynoure> zaheerm: does it allow actual taking of photos as well? Or just, you know, mirroring?
Dec 01 14:02:27 <hrw> and all that from official repositories (extras/extras-devel)
Dec 01 14:02:42 <dneary> zaheerm, The one with the lens is on the front
Dec 01 14:02:49 <hrw> ccooke: "apt-get install libqt4-dev libqt4-maemo5-dev"
Dec 01 14:02:49 <dneary> zaheerm, The big screen is on the back
Dec 01 14:03:03 <zaheerm> Lynoure, at the moment it doesn't seem worth taking a photo with the front camera...
Dec 01 14:03:06 <fiferboy> hrw:  Those qt libraries can be used at the same time
Dec 01 14:03:14 <zaheerm> dneary, depends on your orientation ;)
Dec 01 14:03:14 * rEv9 finally got his N900 <3
Dec 01 14:03:19 <dneary> Why do I have front & back differently to you?
Dec 01 14:03:38 <dneary> When I'm taking a picture, I'm behind the camera, not in front of it, no?
Dec 01 14:03:45 <lardman> why not little & large?
Dec 01 14:03:46 <Lynoure> zaheerm: for selfportrait, in order to add an image to an IM. (gosh, this sounds much more girly than I am)
Dec 01 14:04:01 <lardman> Lynoure: lol
Dec 01 14:04:05 <zaheerm> when i use the phone, i usually have the screen as the front :)
Dec 01 14:04:28 <dneary> zaheerm, But when you're taking pictures, it's not a phone is it?
Dec 01 14:04:37 <zaheerm> Lynoure, it is doable but the quality currently is really bad
Dec 01 14:04:50 <hrw> fiferboy: sure, either can 11 copies of libsqlite3
Dec 01 14:05:18 <zaheerm> dneary, yes but when referring to parts on the phone, you're at the time not taking a picture :)
Dec 01 14:05:34 <fiferboy> hrw: True.  And at least one of those sqlite3 libraries seems messed up
Dec 01 14:05:42 * tru want it's N900 as well.
Dec 01 14:05:56 <fiferboy> The one for qt 4.5 gives me weird column orders sometimes.  The 4.6 one has worked well so far
Dec 01 14:06:08 <Venomrush> the Recording app uses WAV
Dec 01 14:06:17 <hrw> tru: I want maemo6 device to be released. maybe this will free some n900s for ddp
Dec 01 14:06:29 <Venomrush> what the audio format of the recording from the video?
Dec 01 14:06:33 <tru> hrw: hehe.
Dec 01 14:06:53 <hrw> fiferboy: so far it looks like my app works with qt4.5 packages and fails with qt4.6 ones (works with any on desktop)
Dec 01 14:07:15 <hrw> fiferboy: time to wait for device and develop only for desktop for now
Dec 01 14:07:49 <fiferboy> hrw: Do you know what the issue with 4.6 is?  I had to change where I initialized my resource file to get it to work
Dec 01 14:08:48 <dneary> zaheerm, Camera lenses are parts of the camera, though :)
Dec 01 14:08:54 <dneary> Anyway - let's not fight
Dec 01 14:09:07 <zaheerm> dneary, agreed, very not worth the argument ;)
Dec 01 14:09:13 <dneary> Let's agree to call the small camera for Skype the back camera
Dec 01 14:09:24 <zaheerm> lol
Dec 01 14:09:46 <lardman> Sub/Multi-megapixel camera
Dec 01 14:09:52 <hrw> fiferboy: no, I do not know. I know that sqliteDB does not work out of box
Dec 01 14:09:53 <sp3000> user-facing :)
Dec 01 14:10:12 <sp3000> well, unless the user turns the thing around, but, hey
Dec 01 14:10:15 <lardman> user-facing-when-not-taking-self-portrait?
Dec 01 14:10:20 <fiferboy> hrw: Hmm, that is strange.  I have had a better experience with 4.6 sqlite.
Dec 01 14:10:28 <Lynoure> lardman: actually, even then.
Dec 01 14:10:31 <andre__> is the wiki down or is it just me?
Dec 01 14:10:44 <fiferboy> hrw: libqt4-maemo5-sql-sqlite is installed I assume?
Dec 01 14:10:50 <Lynoure> lardman: or, well, depends what you call your "self" =)
Dec 01 14:11:19 * lardman goes back to big/little multi/sub megapixel
Dec 01 14:11:28 <Venomrush> Nokia got in trouble with Nintendo for showing off SNES on the N900 - http://www.intomobile.com/2009/12/01/nokia-got-in-trouble-with-nintendo-for-showing-off-snes-on-the-n900-maemo.html
Dec 01 14:11:40 <sp3000> what if you're taking pictures of other users?
Dec 01 14:12:12 <Lynoure> main and auxiliary, for me.
Dec 01 14:12:38 <hrw> fiferboy: now yes
Dec 01 14:12:50 <SpeedEvil> You can plug in a new camera in principle.
Dec 01 14:13:06 <SpeedEvil> (if you could find an alternative with compatible footprint and size)
Dec 01 14:13:10 <hrw> export PATH=/opt/something:/opt/other/:/opt/yetanother:/opt/thisonetoo:/opt/and/do/not/forget/about/me:$PATH
Dec 01 14:13:14 <hrw> ARHGDGE@!@#!
Dec 01 14:13:16 <SpeedEvil> It's a removable (main) camera
Dec 01 14:13:29 <Stskeeps> hrw: you shouldn't have to use /opt in paths at all?
Dec 01 14:13:42 <andre__> ah. works again.
Dec 01 14:13:43 <Stskeeps> it symlinks from /usr/whatever into /opt/somewhere
Dec 01 14:13:54 <hrw> Stskeeps: tell that to Qt4-maemo5 maintainer
Dec 01 14:14:10 <andre__> bug 6474, eh?
Dec 01 14:14:12 <povbot> Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6474 libqt4-dev ships libphonon.so symlink but do not depend on libphonon-dev package
Dec 01 14:14:26 <Stskeeps> hrw: don't tell me he did a /configure --prefix=/opt?
Dec 01 14:14:32 <lopz> hi ;]
Dec 01 14:14:55 <suihkulokki> pst. at #qt-maemo one is more likely to get better maemo qt advice
Dec 01 14:14:55 <hrw> Stskeeps: did not looked at it
Dec 01 14:15:03 <hrw> andre__: should be new bug but I am lazy
Dec 01 14:15:48 <Stskeeps> Venomrush: the difference is the kontorri did that in his free time..
Dec 01 14:15:59 <hrw> http://marcin.juszkiewicz.com.pl/tmp/pic12.jpg - qt 4.5, http://marcin.juszkiewicz.com.pl/tmp/pic13.jpg - qt 4.6
Dec 01 14:16:02 <hrw> ARGH
Dec 01 14:17:17 <Stskeeps> 4.5 is the community one and 4.6 is the 'official' one?
Dec 01 14:17:24 <fiferboy> Stskeeps: Yes
Dec 01 14:17:27 <plr_> Stskeeps: yes
Dec 01 14:17:42 <Stskeeps> ah
Dec 01 14:17:53 <fiferboy> It is bizarre that I have the opposite problem of hrw, with 4.6 having better sqlite (on the device)
Dec 01 14:19:23 <Lynoure> hrw: Hey you. Obviously you poke around with maemo and qt, what would you recommend as a tutorial/starting point for getting into that?
Dec 01 14:19:28 <hrw> fiferboy: after installing it by hand it works
Dec 01 14:20:18 <hrw> Lynoure: 1. forget about maemo, develop on your desktop. 2. use Qt-Designer for UI work. 3. test on maemo only when it works and you want to adapt UI
Dec 01 14:20:26 <hrw> Lynoure: otherwise you will loose lot of time
Dec 01 14:20:41 * timeless_mbp sighs
Dec 01 14:20:46 <timeless_mbp> so there are all sorts of funnies in this map
Dec 01 14:20:48 <mikhas> Lynoure, I'd recommend the maemo examples in the x11-maemo repo: http://qt.gitorious.org/qt/x11-maemo
Dec 01 14:20:59 <Lynoure> timeless_mbp: hmm?
Dec 01 14:21:24 <timeless_mbp> Lynoure: open the clock app
Dec 01 14:21:27 <timeless_mbp> tap on world time
Dec 01 14:21:29 <timeless_mbp> tap add
Dec 01 14:21:32 <timeless_mbp> tap the magnifier
Dec 01 14:21:35 <timeless_mbp> enter 'kanton'
Dec 01 14:21:50 <timeless_mbp> (if you aren't using enus/enus1/engb/engb1, then fix your locale first...)
Dec 01 14:21:55 <timeless_mbp> read the time zone
Dec 01 14:21:56 <timeless_mbp> tap done
Dec 01 14:21:58 <timeless_mbp> look at the map
Dec 01 14:22:02 <timeless_mbp> get back to me
Dec 01 14:22:40 <Lynoure> timeless_mbp: east of Australia
Dec 01 14:22:47 <timeless_mbp> and what time zone?
Dec 01 14:24:45 <Lynoure> timeless_mbp: for me it says -7 in both cases.
Dec 01 14:24:58 <timeless_mbp> ok, where is -7 on a map?
Dec 01 14:26:31 <Lynoure> timeless_mbp: not very far, and I have no idea what zone they actually use there.
Dec 01 14:26:53 <timeless_mbp> is here near australia?
Dec 01 14:27:49 <lardman> Is Adelaide's timezone now included?
Dec 01 14:27:56 <thiago> my N900 cannot resolve any hostname, even though it's connected to the wireless and I can ping the DNS servers
Dec 01 14:27:57 <lardman> 8.5h or somesuch
Dec 01 14:28:05 <thiago> I can confirm from another machine that the DNS servers are working
Dec 01 14:28:26 <timeless_mbp> lardman: i'm going to post a script and maps for comparison
Dec 01 14:28:27 <Lynoure> timeless_mbp: reasonably, yeah, -8 for Pitcairn is closer, though.
Dec 01 14:28:34 <Stskeeps> thiago: i have a router that corrupts my DNS packets
Dec 01 14:28:40 <timeless_mbp> Lynoure: um
Dec 01 14:28:46 <timeless_mbp> -7 is somewhere in the USA
Dec 01 14:28:47 <thiago> Stskeeps: it's not the router
Dec 01 14:28:52 <thiago> Stskeeps: it's dnsmasq somehow
Dec 01 14:29:34 <Lynoure> timeless_mbp: timezones seem weirder than I realize, I had no idea there was GMT+14 or GMT+13:45
Dec 01 14:29:42 <timeless_mbp> timezones are fun
Dec 01 14:29:51 <timeless_mbp> but getting timezones right is important
Dec 01 14:29:56 <Lynoure> anything with abs > 12 seems suspect.
Dec 01 14:29:57 <timeless_mbp> and sticking guam in the continental us
Dec 01 14:30:24 <timeless_mbp> or confusing the continental us (phoenix, AZ) with the pacific (phoenix islands)
Dec 01 14:30:26 <timeless_mbp> is a problem
Dec 01 14:30:38 <timeless_mbp> anyway, lemme push this so people can play
Dec 01 14:31:22 <DangerMaus> haha
Dec 01 14:31:43 <Lynoure> hrw, mikhas: thanks.
Dec 01 14:32:44 <hrw> Lynoure: maemoization of application is mostly UI related so you can leave it for end of work
Dec 01 14:34:03 <VDVsx> Announcement: December sprint meeting is about to start at #maemo-meeting
Dec 01 14:35:07 <timeless_mbp> http://www.webwizardry.net/~timeless/n900/clock/n900.html
Dec 01 14:35:14 <Lynoure> hrw: my problem is that the app is a tad complex and I'll want to have some preliminary versions on the device so that I can use some parts of it before the whole thing is done. Is that doomed?
Dec 01 14:35:17 <thiago> how does dnsmasq work?
Dec 01 14:35:32 <timeless_mbp> that's the map that shipped w/ the n900
Dec 01 14:35:35 <timeless_mbp> and the data it had
Dec 01 14:37:19 <hrw> Lynoure: not doomed
Dec 01 14:37:36 <hrw> Lynoure: maemo5 part of work is mostly adapting UI to very small resolution
Dec 01 14:38:14 <RST38h> iPhone fans vindicated: http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/01/nokia-asks-own-blog-readers-whats-their-favorite-part-of-the-x6/
Dec 01 14:38:46 <hrw> Lynoure: as you have space just for few widgets on screen at same time
Dec 01 14:38:48 <timeless_mbp> http://www.webwizardry.net/~timeless/n900/clock/n900-tz.html
Dec 01 14:38:54 <timeless_mbp> for people curious about timezones
Dec 01 14:39:37 * Flandry yawns
Dec 01 14:39:38 * thiago is really lost about this DNS problem
Dec 01 14:40:00 <thiago> tcpdump available for fremantle?
Dec 01 14:40:01 <thiago> or strace?
Dec 01 14:40:27 <Flandry> Anyone want to b0rk their N900 testing my accelerometer joystick driver?
Dec 01 14:40:55 * javispedro notes that there's a light rail that connects his uni and where the maebar is being hosted literally door to door
Dec 01 14:40:55 <serenity> anyone an idea how to prevent xyphyr to use ctrl+shift to keep focus?
Dec 01 14:41:25 * Flandry is jealous
Dec 01 14:43:32 <kalikianatoli> Flandry, how do you implement fire buttons with an accelerometer?
Dec 01 14:43:47 <timeless_mbp> thiago: strace is in tools iirc
Dec 01 14:43:49 <kalikianatoli> or do you rely on the touch screen for that?
Dec 01 14:43:51 <Flandry> i haven't done that
Dec 01 14:43:58 <Flandry> so far it's just a  2-axis
Dec 01 14:44:36 <Flandry> i intend to capture proximity sensor and maybe camera button in future
Dec 01 14:44:45 * timeless_mbp sighs
Dec 01 14:44:45 <kalikianatoli> I would be interested in an accelerometer joystick if it could do buttons, since that's what easily becomes awkward if you have to hit certain keys
Dec 01 14:44:47 <Flandry> and also gestures
Dec 01 14:44:58 <timeless_mbp> Can someone here point to Caracas, Venezuela?
Dec 01 14:45:11 * Flandry points south
Dec 01 14:45:34 <Flandry> well if you don't have to use arrow keys, hitting a key for buttons is much less onerous
Dec 01 14:46:16 * papo points west
Dec 01 14:46:28 <Flandry> the current app has enter and left shift as buttons
Dec 01 14:46:41 <Flandry> and space
Dec 01 14:46:56 <thiago> timeless_mbp: unfortunatelly I can't install anything until I solve the DNS problem
Dec 01 14:47:02 <kalikianatoli> Flandry, buttons aside, is it an app or can it be used on existing games?
Dec 01 14:47:44 <Flandry> it's currently bundled with uqm but it's a general solution for games that use the joystick port because it emulates one
Dec 01 14:47:58 <javispedro> is this the one using uinput?
Dec 01 14:48:05 <Flandry> yeah
Dec 01 14:48:22 <kalikianatoli> Flandry, then I'd like to try it if you put it somewhere
Dec 01 14:49:17 <Flandry> for now it's just part of the default control scheme for uqm. Once it gets debugged there i'll probably make it into a package of its own
Dec 01 14:49:43 <Flandry> need to make sure it can even install right still :)
Dec 01 14:53:01 <Flandry> the problem with testing it is that scratchbox only goes so far at emulating a system
Dec 01 14:53:43 <javispedro> scratchbox, emulate what?
Dec 01 14:53:54 <Flandry> meh you know what i mean
Dec 01 14:53:57 <kalikianatoli> Flandry, you don't have a device?
Dec 01 14:53:58 <javispedro> it's not an emulator.
Dec 01 14:54:02 <kalikianatoli> lol
Dec 01 14:54:13 <javispedro> if you are injecting events in uinput, you are injecting them ON YOUR HOST SYSTEM...
Dec 01 14:54:24 <pablo_> Where i find packages MySql for Maemo ??
Dec 01 14:54:36 <thiago> timeless_mbp: got it, thanks
Dec 01 14:54:38 <Flandry> yes, which has separate udev rules, for example, than scratchbox env
Dec 01 14:54:46 <javispedro> exactly :)
Dec 01 14:55:11 <Flandry> and different user groups
Dec 01 14:55:16 <kalikianatoli> pablo_, apt-cache search mysql
Dec 01 14:56:37 <javispedro> ah, slashdot got "The Great Emu Mess" story.
Dec 01 14:57:08 <Flandry> i set the joystick bindings in uqm by feeding specific values to the dummy accelerometer file
Dec 01 14:57:49 <Flandry> It does work, i just don't know if the current deb will install correctly on an n900
Dec 01 14:58:32 <kalikianatoli> Flandry, you can give me a .deb and I can test it
Dec 01 14:58:40 <Flandry> it's on extras-devel
Dec 01 14:58:46 <Flandry> please do :)
Dec 01 14:58:54 <wazd> ~seen fiferboy
Dec 01 14:58:57 <kalikianatoli> ah, I thought you had a different package that's not in devel
Dec 01 14:58:58 <infobot> fiferboy is currently on #maemo (58m). Has said a total of 8 messages. Is idling for 40m 45s, last said: 'It is bizarre that I have the opposite problem of hrw, with 4.6 having better sqlite (on the device)'.
Dec 01 14:59:07 <wazd> ohoh :)
Dec 01 14:59:07 <kalikianatoli> I'll check the one in devel in a minute
Dec 01 14:59:11 <wazd> fiferboy: heya :)
Dec 01 14:59:25 <wazd> and hello all btw :)
Dec 01 14:59:32 <Flandry> hi wazd
Dec 01 14:59:33 <fiferboy> hi wazd
Dec 01 14:59:39 <fiferboy> wazd: How's it going?
Dec 01 14:59:47 <qwerty12> Hiya, wazd
Dec 01 14:59:51 * qwerty12 waves at zenvoid 
Dec 01 15:00:01 <wazd> fiferboy: fine, where have you been? :)
Dec 01 15:00:27 <wazd> fiferboy: congrats with new Olmsted in your family btw :)
Dec 01 15:00:39 <timeless_mbp> Flandry / papo : ask the world clock :)
Dec 01 15:00:42 <fiferboy> wazd: Thanks.  Yeah, I've been a bit busy lately :)
Dec 01 15:01:24 <wazd> fiferboy: yeah, same for me
Dec 01 15:01:38 * Shapeshifter has seen an n900 poster in the city today
Dec 01 15:02:42 <papo> timeless_mbp: well you know... I'm still waiting for the device :)
Dec 01 15:02:45 <Stskeeps> javispedro: http://maemo.gitorious.org/fremantle-hildon-desktop/clutter_0_8/commit/2c8f021
Dec 01 15:03:24 <javispedro> Stskeeps: ouch!
Dec 01 15:03:35 <javispedro> Stskeeps: 4_4_4_4 DOES require packed_pixels!
Dec 01 15:03:56 <Stskeeps> javispedro: feel free to comment
Dec 01 15:04:09 <javispedro> i see there was activity on the bug
Dec 01 15:04:57 * javispedro can read where from his original post it could be induced that 4_4_4_4 came with GL 1.2.. sorry
Dec 01 15:06:16 <Flandry> hey cool, so no more blue<->red in SDL in SDK?
Dec 01 15:06:33 <javispedro> hopefully :)
Dec 01 15:07:24 * w00t notes that lcuk must be addicted to tmo
Dec 01 15:07:38 <lcuk> mmm w00t ?
Dec 01 15:07:52 <w00t> I'm seeing you lurking in just about every thread I'm reading on there. :P
Dec 01 15:08:09 <Klowner> aaaah, it's 30mins away at the fedex facility
Dec 01 15:08:16 <lcuk> you shouldnt
Dec 01 15:08:18 <qwerty12> That just means one of you is a stalker
Dec 01 15:08:36 <lcuk> im not onany atm
Dec 01 15:08:41 <lcuk> but i watch the vaispy
Dec 01 15:08:52 <lcuk> so i see posts as they happen on all topics
Dec 01 15:09:01 <w00t> qwerty12: I'm no stalker, I just happen to like standing outside your window
Dec 01 15:09:25 <qwerty12> Ah, OK, not so worried anymore :-)
Dec 01 15:09:46 * w00t licks qwerty12's window longingly
Dec 01 15:10:10 * Flandry wonders why w00t is stalking lcuk AND qwerty12
Dec 01 15:10:15 * qwerty12 sprays H1N1 on his window
Dec 01 15:10:19 <lcuk> w00t, this is the page i use http://talk.maemo.org/vaispy.php
Dec 01 15:10:19 * w00t looks shifty
Dec 01 15:10:29 <lcuk> w00t stalks everyone
Dec 01 15:10:40 <w00t> lcuk: woah.
Dec 01 15:10:45 * lcuk curses his n900
Dec 01 15:10:51 * w00t bookmarks
Dec 01 15:11:01 <Flandry> hey cool
Dec 01 15:11:13 <lcuk> yeah, so thats how i appear to be stalking without actually doing much
Dec 01 15:11:14 <Flandry> that's new to me tto
Dec 01 15:11:20 <lcuk> if a thread takes my fancy i click
Dec 01 15:11:27 <javispedro> lcuk has liqtmo which automatically reads all threads for him then proceeds to digest the interesting stuff :)
Dec 01 15:11:30 <qwerty12> Talk is funny, actually. If you're not logged in and click on someone's profile, you can see what they're doing, but if you are logged in, you can't...
Dec 01 15:12:02 <lcuk> nahh javispedro i have irc to do that
Dec 01 15:12:11 <lcuk> someone inevitably complains about a thread or other
Dec 01 15:12:12 <javispedro> touché :)
Dec 01 15:12:15 <w00t> qwerty12: just like people not making sense off talk complain about people on talk not making sense
Dec 01 15:12:16 * Flandry suspects that the Grand Unified Theory is also found somewhere on m.o. if he just knew how to find it.
Dec 01 15:12:18 * w00t ducks and runs
Dec 01 15:12:29 <w00t> hm
Dec 01 15:12:33 <qwerty12> Heh
Dec 01 15:12:35 <w00t> I suspect I didn't actually make sense with that comment
Dec 01 15:12:37 <w00t> oh, the irony :(
Dec 01 15:12:47 <qwerty12> No comment
Dec 01 15:12:58 * w00t grmbl
Dec 01 15:13:14 <javispedro> Stskeeps: :P seems that indeed 4_4_4_4 comes with packed pixels too, so I will shut up and thank you :)
Dec 01 15:13:22 <javispedro> s/packed pixels/1.2 err...
Dec 01 15:13:26 <javispedro> :P
Dec 01 15:13:32 <SpeedEvil> Is there a way to have the thumbnails of pages on the desktop be semi-live?
Dec 01 15:13:49 <SpeedEvil> For example - I'd like a yr.no page - which updates every 4 hours.
Dec 01 15:13:53 <lcuk> SpeedEvil, you mean like a government minister?
Dec 01 15:13:54 <Flandry> you mean zombie-like?
Dec 01 15:14:00 <SpeedEvil> But I don't want the browser footprint for the whole time
Dec 01 15:14:08 <SpeedEvil> (weather page)
Dec 01 15:14:14 <lcuk> omweather
Dec 01 15:14:27 <Flandry> it's called a widget i think
Dec 01 15:14:27 <lcuk> surprisingly has nifty things to do that for you
Dec 01 15:14:29 <SpeedEvil> What's omweathers data source?
Dec 01 15:14:53 <lcuk> mother nature i believe
Dec 01 15:15:01 <qwerty12> lcuk's weather machine
Dec 01 15:15:12 * SpeedEvil covers lcuk in golden syrup, and places him on an anthill in brazil.
Dec 01 15:15:28 <qwerty12> But as it's in the North, it's always set to "rain"
Dec 01 15:15:35 <lcuk> stop highlighting me anyway im trying to flash device
Dec 01 15:15:50 <dneary> anyone else think that gcobb's fart application is a sure-fire winner?
Dec 01 15:15:50 * lcuk is wearing a mac
Dec 01 15:15:51 <qwerty12> lcuk: Why are you flashing the device?
Dec 01 15:16:01 <javispedro> we have a fart app already?
Dec 01 15:16:03 <javispedro> that makes two!
Dec 01 15:16:06 <qwerty12> dneary: Only if he includes a goatse picture to go with it
Dec 01 15:16:09 <wazd> fiferboy: I have another idea for clock applet
Dec 01 15:16:31 <wazd> fiferboy: we should have one more layer in front of all
Dec 01 15:16:41 <qwerty12> Now I'm tempted to write a fart app with a goatse picture...
Dec 01 15:16:47 <wazd> fiferboy: for "glass" effect for example
Dec 01 15:16:56 <fiferboy> wazd: Sounds reasonable
Dec 01 15:17:01 <lcuk> oh crap thanks wazd, you just reminded me of something i have to remove
Dec 01 15:17:14 <SpeedEvil> qwerty12: Clearly it should be a transition effect.
Dec 01 15:17:21 <wazd> lcuk: np :D
Dec 01 15:17:55 <qwerty12> SpeedEvil: Like having the app expand from the middle
Dec 01 15:18:03 <SpeedEvil> qwerty12: Every new window, a pair of hands come in from screen left and right, and open the window - morphed into a circular shape until it approaches the size of the screen as the hands stretch it, finishing off rectangular, and dissapearing off the edges.
Dec 01 15:18:18 <Flandry> creepy
Dec 01 15:18:55 <lcuk> SpeedEvil, you have clearly been investigating goatse far too closely
Dec 01 15:18:55 <v2px_> reminds me of goatse
Dec 01 15:19:15 <lcuk> however did i miss the fact he was actually a cleverly disguised window manager
Dec 01 15:20:10 <dmj7261> I was comparing the n900 to another music player on Saturday...
Dec 01 15:20:16 <dmj7261> ...it didn't hold up
Dec 01 15:20:25 <SpeedEvil> lcuk: I investigated weather.com, and it sucks - comparatively.
Dec 01 15:21:29 <lcuk> i really want a big butto non omweather "WRONG!" so when i look out the window and see what its actually doing i can click it and send real info
Dec 01 15:21:35 <dmj7261> of course the other music player was a symphony orchestra :P
Dec 01 15:23:34 <Flandry> lcuk: that would be awesome
Dec 01 15:23:40 <zaheerm> lcuk, that'd be great, it was 1 degrees C this morning, omweather said 7 :)
Dec 01 15:24:00 <SpeedEvil> http://www.yr.no/place/United_Kingdom/Scotland/Glenrothes/long.html - I find much more accurate
Dec 01 15:24:02 * lcuk nods 
Dec 01 15:24:52 <zaheerm> SpeedEvil, i hope not, i platy footy tonight and it says rain and 3 degrees c for london :(
Dec 01 15:25:28 <lcuk> SpeedEvil, surprisingly, i find the glenrothes weather maps to be more accurate for manchester too, thanks for the tip
Dec 01 15:25:33 <kalikianatoli> Flandry, seems like the repo is partly down, I'll try it later in the evening
Dec 01 15:25:34 <SpeedEvil> :)
Dec 01 15:26:02 <SpeedEvil>  I like the fact they also do XML
Dec 01 15:26:06 <Flandry> kalikianatoli: typical. Thanks and let me know what happens.
Dec 01 15:26:18 <SpeedEvil> http://www.yr.no/place/United_Kingdom/Scotland/Glenrothes/varsel.xml
Dec 01 15:42:57 * Jaffa has kicked off another "ML better than tmo" rant sub-thread. Oops
Dec 01 15:43:17 <Jaffa> and a suggestion by Texrat that we're in a decision-making impasse.
Dec 01 15:46:35 <DocScrutinizer> N900 performs rather decent, afaict after 20h :-)
Dec 01 15:47:30 <ccooke> Jaffa: ML?
Dec 01 15:47:52 <Jaffa> ccooke: mailing lists
Dec 01 15:48:25 * Jaffa particularly fond of when he's sat in Center Parcs for 4 mins on a seat with free wifi
Dec 01 15:53:06 <toggles_w> i quit, nokiausa.com can suck my bawls..
Dec 01 15:54:32 <wazd> omweather is an app, not weather provider
Dec 01 15:55:28 <wazd> so you can't make any buttons connected to forecast change
Dec 01 15:55:38 <DangerMaus> crediy card not working?
Dec 01 15:58:32 <DangerMaus> toggles_w, credit card not working?
Dec 01 16:00:05 <Shapeshifter> DangerMaus: you got your device?
Dec 01 16:00:07 <toggles_w> DangerMaus: yeah, called hsbc, they  authorised it 4 times, nokia web and their call center wont take it, tried another card too, no go, guess they don't want my money..
Dec 01 16:00:15 <Klowner> out for deliverrrrrrry
Dec 01 16:00:27 <DangerMaus> very close Shapeshifter  out for delivery
Dec 01 16:00:35 <Shapeshifter> heh
Dec 01 16:00:57 <Shapeshifter> my shop told me they'd receive their first batch today. seems like they were lying xD
Dec 01 16:00:57 <Klowner> Now I'm afraid to go take a shower
Dec 01 16:01:01 <Shapeshifter> not that I didn't expect that.
Dec 01 16:01:17 <Flandry> is N900 little endian?
Dec 01 16:01:22 <DangerMaus> oh geez toggles_w ... lotta ppl having that issue with nokia and not just here UK also
Dec 01 16:01:26 <qwerty12> Klowner: You in prison?
Dec 01 16:01:37 <Klowner> qwerty12: lol, no, I'm afraid I'll miss the fedex person
Dec 01 16:01:59 <Klowner> I'll get out of the shower all squeaky clean only to discover one of those "we missed you" stickers on the door
Dec 01 16:02:12 <feri> Jaffa: ping
Dec 01 16:02:12 <Klowner> then I'll dramatically drop to my knees and scream at the heavens
Dec 01 16:02:15 <qwerty12> That would suck :\
Dec 01 16:02:27 * toggles_w is looking at tickets to chicago for the weekend,  buy in person..
Dec 01 16:02:54 <Klowner> toggles_w: I considered the same thing on saturday/sunday, though it's only a 3hr drive for me
Dec 01 16:03:28 <DangerMaus> Klowner, at that point you jump in the car about 3pm and head to the fedex terminal and bring the tracking # and id and the'll get it off the truck for you i do it all the time
Dec 01 16:03:41 <Klowner> DangerMaus: true, I've done that so many times
Dec 01 16:04:04 <ShadowJK> Flandry, yes
Dec 01 16:04:08 <Klowner> but with fedex I have to drive clear across the mississippi and it's a hassle
Dec 01 16:04:22 <Flandry> takes a lot of faith too
Dec 01 16:04:32 * DangerMaus is in chicago but didnt feel like going downtown
Dec 01 16:04:50 <toggles_w> i suppose i could have it delivered to the billing address and work from home that day
Dec 01 16:04:51 <DangerMaus> rofl Klowner
Dec 01 16:05:00 <toggles_w> DangerMaus: do they have them in store?
Dec 01 16:05:28 <Klowner> they had a demo unit hiding in a cupboard at the Chicago store almost 3 weeks ago
Dec 01 16:05:29 <DangerMaus> toggles_w, you got an alternate delivery addy set up to deliver to with your CC company?
Dec 01 16:05:32 * toggles_w should call before booking plane tickets..
Dec 01 16:06:17 <DangerMaus> ahhh nvm
Dec 01 16:06:27 <DangerMaus> didnt see the work from home thing
Dec 01 16:07:10 <DangerMaus> wait got your work addy as an alt delivery addy?
Dec 01 16:08:02 <toggles_w> i always have stuff sent here, never been a problem before
Dec 01 16:08:21 <toggles_w> it's weird, anyway plane tickets are too expensive, ill do the work from home thing ;-)
Dec 01 16:08:39 <DangerMaus> nokia is doing strict checkiing even more than newegg
Dec 01 16:08:58 <toggles_w> is newegg shipping?
Dec 01 16:09:15 <DangerMaus> no
Dec 01 16:09:20 <DangerMaus> well
Dec 01 16:09:23 <toggles_w> heh..
Dec 01 16:09:30 <DangerMaus> they didnt lastnight have any to buy
Dec 01 16:09:45 <DangerMaus> but someone said still fubar there
Dec 01 16:10:17 <toggles_w> yeah, no buy button.. hmm.
Dec 01 16:10:39 <DangerMaus> buy.com  but prob still preorder
Dec 01 16:10:40 <SpeedEvil> DangerMaus: They've been even more wacky for me.
Dec 01 16:11:09 <DangerMaus> SpeedEvil, nokia or newegg?
Dec 01 16:11:35 <SpeedEvil> DangerMaus: nokia.co.uk Ordered Oct 20, card charged Nov 23rd. Charge reversed on the 30th (it arrived shortly after) and today they take the money again.
Dec 01 16:11:51 <DangerMaus> haharpofl
Dec 01 16:11:55 <DangerMaus> rofl
Dec 01 16:12:08 <DangerMaus> thought you got a freebe didnt you
Dec 01 16:12:33 <SpeedEvil> Well - I'd hoped - I wasn't expecting.
Dec 01 16:14:51 <julianoliver> ~abend
Dec 01 16:14:52 <infobot> rumour has it, abend is abnormal end
Dec 01 16:15:12 <SpeedEvil> ~nine edge
Dec 01 16:15:13 <julianoliver> hmm. i'll put a man on the case.
Dec 01 16:17:33 <DangerMaus> sounds like a fedex truck
Dec 01 16:17:41 * Klowner runs upstairs
Dec 01 16:18:27 <DangerMaus> nope the diaper truck
Dec 01 16:23:16 <mece> I'm having some trouble initializing osso.Context() is there something I'm missing?
Dec 01 16:26:02 <mece> should this work: asdf = osso.Context("osso_asdf", 0.0.1, False)
Dec 01 16:26:07 <mece> talking python here.
Dec 01 16:27:24 <mece> hmm ok, this api reference is ooold. Perhaps that's the problem.-..
Dec 01 16:28:12 <DangerMaus> going close to the door
Dec 01 16:33:18 * kalikianatoli wonders if the author of gcompris noticed that he messed up the sections
Dec 01 16:34:13 <qwerty12> kalikianatoli: I'm gonna be laughing if he submits it to extras-testing
Dec 01 16:34:36 <qwerty12> Ain't no way in hell you'll get someone to rate that many language packages
Dec 01 16:36:19 <kalikianatoli> maybe he just seeks lots of attention...
Dec 01 16:36:45 <lardman> hmm, why is a single SMS 160 chars, but a double SMS is 304 chars?
Dec 01 16:36:54 <lardman> s/304/306
Dec 01 16:37:08 <lardman> more info to stick it back together?
Dec 01 16:37:25 <mece> lardman, Suppose there's some info telling that it's a two part..
Dec 01 16:37:30 <mece> right
Dec 01 16:37:33 <lardman> yeah
Dec 01 16:37:44 <mikedg-blau> john told me that maemo sucks
Dec 01 16:37:44 <mikedg-blau> wtf
Dec 01 16:38:01 <qwerty12> John! That fucker!
Dec 01 16:38:11 <lardman> death to the unbeliever!
Dec 01 16:38:20 <lardman> qwerty12, hand me my sharpened chopsticks
Dec 01 16:38:30 * qwerty12 obliges
Dec 01 16:38:39 * lardman takes aim at John
Dec 01 16:38:58 <qwerty12> All this time... It was John!
Dec 01 16:39:16 <qwerty12> OK, seriously, who is John and why should we care?
Dec 01 16:39:24 <lardman> not any more...... ha!
Dec 01 16:39:34 <lardman> indeed
Dec 01 16:39:44 <lardman> so mikedg-blau, why would you believe john anyway?
Dec 01 16:40:18 <_claesbas> lol
Dec 01 16:40:48 <mikedg-blau> i didnt
Dec 01 16:40:49 <lardman> Stskeeps: do you know whether there are any image files available for the Joggler?
Dec 01 16:40:51 <mikedg-blau> thats whyi came here
Dec 01 16:40:58 <lardman> good lad :)
Dec 01 16:41:08 <mikedg-blau> my maemo is still on order
Dec 01 16:41:09 <mikedg-blau> at amazon
Dec 01 16:41:25 <Stskeeps> lardman: hmm?
Dec 01 16:41:46 <lardman> Stskeeps: I would like to examine the traffic application
Dec 01 16:43:39 <lardman> hmm, they've shut down that site I see
Dec 01 16:44:16 <mikedg-blau> can i get a hell yeah!
Dec 01 16:45:13 <Myrtti> shun the non-believer
Dec 01 16:45:15 <Myrtti> shunnnnn
Dec 01 16:45:42 <lardman> no, give him hell like he asks!
Dec 01 16:46:00 <Myrtti> SHUNNNN
Dec 01 16:46:15 <lardman> I've got a sore throat, can't shout back
Dec 01 16:46:20 <lardman> you win ;)
Dec 01 16:46:28 <Myrtti> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPONTneuaF4 CHARLIEEEEEEE
Dec 01 16:46:38 <Myrtti> let's go to the CANDY MOUNTAIN!
Dec 01 16:46:50 <Myrtti> adventure!
Dec 01 16:48:09 <DangerMaus> Klowner got it yet?
Dec 01 16:50:12 <Myrtti> SHUNNN THE NONBELIEVER!
Dec 01 16:51:00 <lardman> Myrtti: you feeling ok?
Dec 01 16:51:15 <Myrtti> why, yes. Thank you for asking.
Dec 01 16:51:22 <lardman> np
Dec 01 16:51:35 <jebbajeb> why is there so little space on /, when the device itself has *tons* of space?
Dec 01 16:51:55 <Klowner> DangerMaus: nerp
Dec 01 16:52:33 <DangerMaus> rootfs is on the 256mb NAND
Dec 01 16:52:58 <DangerMaus> with the boot and the kernel
Dec 01 16:53:00 <jebbajeb> DangerMaus: ya, but they could have put some of that on the 32G too...  Like /usr (similar to what they did with /opt).
Dec 01 16:53:13 <jebbajeb> i installed just a "few" applications and the thing is full already.
Dec 01 16:53:22 <DangerMaus> hehe
Dec 01 16:53:55 <jebbajeb> which means i can't even receive message
Dec 01 16:54:34 <DangerMaus> ummm did someone saysomething bout a reboot would clear some of the at out?
Dec 01 16:55:14 <jebbajeb> at?
Dec 01 16:55:27 <DangerMaus> that
Dec 01 16:55:41 <lardman> not realistically
Dec 01 16:55:52 <jebbajeb> 256M just aint so much space.....
Dec 01 16:55:58 <greenfly> DangerMaus: I noticed a reboot cleaned up about 15Mb or so on /, but if you have a lot of devel software that hasn't been properly optified...
Dec 01 16:55:59 <lardman> though does ubifs perform garbage collection on reboot?
Dec 01 16:56:28 <DangerMaus> i was just gonna wonder that greenfly if it was optified stuff or not
Dec 01 16:56:29 <Klowner> dangit, just heard a thump but it must have been the cat
Dec 01 16:56:32 <Shapeshifter> huh, messages are saved on that 256 space?
Dec 01 16:56:33 <greenfly> DangerMaus: you can see how much space individual packages take up in the package manager when you go to the remove section
Dec 01 16:56:33 <d4rkfe4r> Hello. I need some help with my n810.
Dec 01 16:56:51 <lardman> jebbajeb: indeed, packages which have large files should be "optified" which means their large data files should be placed in /opt which is mounted elsewhere
Dec 01 16:56:57 <DangerMaus> thnx greenfly
Dec 01 16:57:07 <greenfly> DangerMaus: then in a console a dpkg -L packagename    will tell you where the package installed its files
Dec 01 16:57:10 <d4rkfe4r> When its checking for updates it stops half way
Dec 01 16:57:44 <DangerMaus> k
Dec 01 16:57:46 <jebbajeb> Shapeshifter: not certain where they are stored, but once I filled / to 100%, it was constantly spamming the screen with "device full, no messages can be received/sent" or somesuch
Dec 01 16:57:48 <lardman> greenfly: remember that the rootfs is compressed, so you won't get as much space back as it reports
Dec 01 16:58:08 <greenfly> lardman: yeah, at first I was confused when I ran a du against / and noticed about 480mb used up :)
Dec 01 16:58:45 <jebbajeb> lardman, ya i saw that about /opt.   But that seems to put an unnecessary burden on the developers to convert standard applications over. They have the space, they should use it sensibly... I mean the 256M should be for just /boot or similar....
Dec 01 16:58:46 <DangerMaus> why did they do suc a small nand
Dec 01 16:58:50 <DangerMaus> such
Dec 01 16:59:16 <DangerMaus> or is that all that fit  at design stage?
Dec 01 16:59:23 <jebbajeb> they dont' really need a bigger NAND, they just need to use the available space more wisely.
Dec 01 16:59:29 <greenfly> you could argue for /opt or /usr/local being a better place for all extra apps
Dec 01 16:59:40 <greenfly> especially WRT the filesystem hierarchy standard
Dec 01 17:00:31 <DangerMaus> i used to wind up with apps all over the place on the 770
Dec 01 17:00:35 <jebbajeb> well, why not just standard /usr though?  I mean, the package manager can handle that correctly, plus it is where 99% of applications are expeting...
Dec 01 17:00:38 <jebbajeb> expecting
Dec 01 17:00:42 <lardman> well I imagine they assume people will have lots of media onboard
Dec 01 17:00:50 <mikedg-blau> media schmedia
Dec 01 17:00:57 <greenfly> jebbajeb: check out the filesystem hierarchy standard for linux, specificially the sections on /opt and /usr/local
Dec 01 17:01:19 <jebbajeb> greenfly: yes, and applications downloaded via apt and such should be in /usr
Dec 01 17:01:20 <greenfly> jebbajeb: and you'll see that really /usr proper is for programs that come with the OS
Dec 01 17:01:24 <lardman> also see the ml for the arguments about optification vs other options
Dec 01 17:01:37 <greenfly> and that third-party apps should be either in /usr/local or /opt
Dec 01 17:01:44 <jebbajeb> greenfly: and apps you "./configure; make ; make install"  go into /usr/local
Dec 01 17:01:52 <greenfly> jebbajeb: heh, that's not the standard
Dec 01 17:02:06 <jebbajeb> greenfly: debian, ubuntu, fedora, etc...  ALLLLLLL of them install repository applications in /usr
Dec 01 17:02:23 <greenfly> the standard doesn't have to do with how the package is built but more whether the package is considered "part" of the distribution
Dec 01 17:02:32 <jebbajeb> yes, and things in the repo are part of it.
Dec 01 17:02:43 <jebbajeb> i mean, really.  Conform to how debian does it, for example.
Dec 01 17:02:49 <greenfly> in this case you could argue that EVERYTHING that doesn't come with maemo5 should go in /opt or /usr/local
Dec 01 17:02:56 <d4rkfe4r> Hello. I need some help with my n810. When its checking for updates it stops half way.
Dec 01 17:02:58 <jebbajeb> if I install gonvert or something in debian, it goes in /usr, not /opt.
Dec 01 17:03:20 <jebbajeb> greenfly: well whatever. It's not how debian/ubuntu/fedora/etc do it.
Dec 01 17:03:29 <Shapeshifter> nor arch
Dec 01 17:03:36 <greenfly> true, most people have a hard time applying that standard
Dec 01 17:03:43 <greenfly> because it's easier for packagers to just put it in /usr
Dec 01 17:03:47 <jebbajeb> i think you are reading it wrong.
Dec 01 17:04:11 <greenfly> and not actually follow the standard
Dec 01 17:04:12 <greenfly> and there's also a vague sense of what is "part" of the distribution and what isn't
Dec 01 17:04:19 <Corsac> jebbajeb: if you install something in debian, it usually comes from debian anyway :)
Dec 01 17:04:23 <greenfly> it's a bit more clear cut for the n900 though
Dec 01 17:04:53 <greenfly> at a bare minimum I'd argue anything in the extras repo, test, or devel, would be considered 3rd party, not part of the core distro, and should go in /usr/local or /opt
Dec 01 17:05:02 <greenfly> since maemo5 chose /opt instead of /usr/local, then /opt
Dec 01 17:05:24 <lardman> mmm, frixio looks like it's ripe for webscraping, once I improve my technique
Dec 01 17:05:52 <jebbajeb> Corsac: i'm talking about standard nokia/maemo repos here (no third party stuff)
Dec 01 17:06:19 <Corsac> yup
Dec 01 17:06:27 <greenfly> jebbajeb: extras isn't a standard nokia repo IMO, it would follow the standard to consider it 3rd party
Dec 01 17:06:30 <greenfly> since it's not enabled by default
Dec 01 17:06:45 <Shapeshifter> I just had a look at the standard and I don't see where it says it's not okay to put "optional" apps there.
Dec 01 17:06:47 <greenfly> and most of what people are complaining about is stuff in extras or generally stuff on maemo.org
Dec 01 17:06:50 <jebbajeb> ok, well whatever. But in every other distro it's in /usr.
Dec 01 17:07:14 <greenfly> in this case they are just being more explicit about this standard
Dec 01 17:07:21 <greenfly> and encouraging that you use it, by giving you way more space there
Dec 01 17:07:34 <jebbajeb> and making devices fill up...
Dec 01 17:07:45 <greenfly> not if you follow the standard
Dec 01 17:07:55 <lardman> well it's not a big thing really is it, just means you change the configure params
Dec 01 17:07:58 <jebbajeb> thankfully i know mke2fs, fdisk etc.   But how do i get my non-tech friend in another hemesphere set up?
Dec 01 17:08:06 <greenfly> I don't see why it's really hard to change where something gets installed
Dec 01 17:08:09 <greenfly> if you are packaging it anyway
Dec 01 17:08:14 <jebbajeb> greenfly: i'm not packaging it.
Dec 01 17:08:27 <lardman> who is?
Dec 01 17:08:34 <greenfly> all it does it add an extra sanity step, which IMO will probably help the quality of the apps that get ported
Dec 01 17:08:37 <jebbajeb> i just enabled extras, installed a few things, and saw that i can't receive messages anymore, which seems not so wise.
Dec 01 17:08:52 <greenfly> since someone has to spend 2 seconds thinking about the platform instead of just cross-compiling a x86 deb and calling it done
Dec 01 17:09:19 <jebbajeb> ya, might as well throw an extra hurdle in front of them...
Dec 01 17:09:44 <greenfly> it's a change in convention here
Dec 01 17:09:59 <greenfly> noone will be complaining about it in maemo6 since all the apps will have conformed by then
Dec 01 17:10:18 <greenfly> you are seeing growing pains now because some people just did a quick repackage of old maemo apps since they don't have an n900 yet
Dec 01 17:10:31 <greenfly> hopefully in the next couple of months you'll see devs repackage their stuff properly
Dec 01 17:10:41 <greenfly> since, honestly, it's not /difficult/ to do it right
Dec 01 17:10:54 <greenfly> we are talking a different directory here
Dec 01 17:10:59 <solarion> I need time to get gnumeric reported
Dec 01 17:11:06 <solarion> forking is a pain; integration is where it's at.
Dec 01 17:11:42 <derf> greenfly: Spoken like someone who's never tried to convince autotools to do something "simple".
Dec 01 17:11:54 <jebbajeb> hha
Dec 01 17:11:56 <greenfly> heh
Dec 01 17:12:14 <jebbajeb> ya, i've had enough pain even getting apps to respect $DESTDIR...
Dec 01 17:12:18 <greenfly> derf: hey I'm a /usr/local guy myself so IMO they should have done that, but noone asked me :)
Dec 01 17:12:22 <jebbajeb> (building fedora RPMS)
Dec 01 17:12:48 <jebbajeb> i think they should have done what fedora/redhat/debian/ubuntu/etc all do....
Dec 01 17:13:09 <greenfly> jebbajeb: clearly they didn't have 2Gb of internal storage, they had 256
Dec 01 17:13:26 <greenfly> so they had to choose some non-/ mount point for the 32Gb storage
Dec 01 17:13:47 <greenfly> and since usb storage still generally expects vfat everywhere, they had to give the bulk up to that
Dec 01 17:14:14 <greenfly> and carve up 2gb of it for an ext3 partition mounted somewhere for the bulk of the system storage (in this case in /opt)
Dec 01 17:14:33 <greenfly> you can certainly argue it should have been mounted in /usr, or /usr/local instead
Dec 01 17:14:50 <greenfly> but (for various internal reasons that I'm sure their team argued about) they decided to go with /opt
Dec 01 17:15:43 <jebbajeb> heh. well, i can't even get the thing to power back on, so i'm extra noob at the moment  ;)
Dec 01 17:15:59 <greenfly> ya, that sucks :(
Dec 01 17:16:10 <lardman> hold the power button down until the light comes on and the vibration motor goes
Dec 01 17:16:16 <lardman> or have you broken it?
Dec 01 17:16:35 <lardman> so are deps of promoted packages not being pulled in?
Dec 01 17:16:41 <greenfly> really, I'm surprised the stuff in Extras isn't all optified yet, I'd expect that to be a prerequisite
Dec 01 17:16:52 <lardman> greenfly: indeed
Dec 01 17:16:57 <derf> If you put it in /usr, you can't reflash the device to get it back to a known working state.
Dec 01 17:17:09 <derf> Which is _not_ something fedora/redhat/debian/ubuntu/etc ever had to worry about.
Dec 01 17:17:28 <greenfly> derf: true, that's a really good point
Dec 01 17:17:38 <lardman> hmm, is the promotion sequence devel -> testing -> extras?
Dec 01 17:17:43 <derf> /usr/local might still have been a reasonable option.
Dec 01 17:17:51 <lardman> I hope so as I just promoted mbarcode and I've no idea where to
Dec 01 17:18:19 <jebbajeb> you know under the battery there are like 10 gold "dots".  Is that jtag, usb, serial, what?
Dec 01 17:18:20 <greenfly> derf: IME most people use /usr/local and /opt interchangibly, the solaris guys like /opt and the Linux guys seem to like /usr/local
Dec 01 17:18:20 <zaheerm> greenfly, what isn't optified in extras?
Dec 01 17:18:29 <greenfly> zaheerm: dunno, apparently something jebbajeb installed that filled up his /
Dec 01 17:19:00 <zaheerm> jebbajeb, what did you install?
Dec 01 17:19:08 <jebbajeb> greenfly: i installed a bunch from extras.  supertux and vim (20 megs heh--when leafpad is like 900k).  Anyway, that filled /
Dec 01 17:19:10 <Shapeshifter> so, extra apps get installed in that 256 space?
Dec 01 17:19:14 <derf> IME /usr/local gets added to paths and /opt doesn't.
Dec 01 17:19:19 <jebbajeb> Shapeshifter: some do, some dont
Dec 01 17:19:29 <Shapeshifter> why do some?
Dec 01 17:19:30 <derf> So I could just ./configure --prefix=/usr/local and be done.
Dec 01 17:19:41 <jebbajeb> derf: --prefix=/opt  ya.
Dec 01 17:19:45 <greenfly> derf: yeah, I like /usr/local better myself, because it's just one extra entry to each path (library paths, binary paths, etc.)
Dec 01 17:19:53 <jebbajeb> ASSUMING the ./configure script respects that, which many dont
Dec 01 17:19:53 <derf> jebbajeb: Not if I want it to show up in the user's path.
Dec 01 17:19:57 <lardman> derf: yeah I don't know why that wasn't chosen tbh
Dec 01 17:19:58 <greenfly> derf: when in the /opt case each addition requires the path get longer
Dec 01 17:20:07 <jebbajeb> I assume /opt/bin is in the $PATH too
Dec 01 17:20:18 <derf> jebbajeb: You probably assume wrong.
Dec 01 17:20:21 <greenfly> jebbajeb: it shouldn't be
Dec 01 17:20:25 <jebbajeb> actually it isnt
Dec 01 17:20:26 <Shapeshifter> but why this.
Dec 01 17:20:29 <greenfly> as the standard in /opt is for each program to have its own named dir
Dec 01 17:20:44 <greenfly> and then under that dir, there might be a bin, lib, etc.
Dec 01 17:20:45 <lardman> jebbajeb: you should split the package so binaries are under /usr and data under /opt iirc
Dec 01 17:20:53 <Shapeshifter> well. I'm all for /usr/local
Dec 01 17:21:00 <Shapeshifter> and that should not be on the 256 partition.
Dec 01 17:21:02 <lardman> Shapeshifter: too late
Dec 01 17:21:03 <mgedmin> Shapeshifter, have you read the FHS?
Dec 01 17:21:06 <greenfly> lardman: if you use /opt, everything for the package should be under a named dir in /opt
Dec 01 17:21:08 <Shapeshifter> no I haven't.
Dec 01 17:21:18 <Shapeshifter> but...
Dec 01 17:21:21 <mgedmin> then you're missing some of the considerations
Dec 01 17:21:24 <zaheerm> jebbajeb, so...supertux i know is optified
Dec 01 17:21:24 <lardman> greenfly: bar a shell script to call the binary, etc
Dec 01 17:21:24 <Shapeshifter> uhm.
Dec 01 17:21:34 <Shapeshifter> mgedmin: what is the "FHS"?
Dec 01 17:21:40 <mgedmin> the Filesystem Hierarchy Standard
Dec 01 17:21:41 <zaheerm> one problem is apt stores it's packages to /
Dec 01 17:21:41 <greenfly> Shapeshifter: Filesystem Hierarchy Standard
Dec 01 17:21:52 <mgedmin> http://www.pathname.com/fhs/
Dec 01 17:21:55 <Shapeshifter> ahh. yes I've skimmed over it.
Dec 01 17:22:06 <Shapeshifter> but, what does this have to do with maemo and the storage problem.
Dec 01 17:22:15 <mgedmin> "The /usr/local hierarchy is for use by the system administrator when installing software locally. It needs to be safe from being overwritten when the system software is updated"
Dec 01 17:22:24 <jebbajeb> zaheerm, supertux may be /opt. I was just listing some apps....
Dec 01 17:22:28 <Shapeshifter> I mean, it can't be that there's soo little space for extra apps. and /opt is a bit silly because every subdir is an app dir.
Dec 01 17:22:38 <mgedmin> which is usually interpreted as "distro packages should not ship stuff in /usr/local"
Dec 01 17:22:45 <Shapeshifter> mgedmin: so what, that's perfect
Dec 01 17:22:53 <mgedmin> except maybe for skeleton directories for sysadmin to put his custom files
Dec 01 17:23:35 <Shapeshifter> and "the system software" being updated would simply be syncing the main repo.
Dec 01 17:23:37 <greenfly> basically if you look at the problem they had to solve, /usr/local and /opt were the two best choices
Dec 01 17:23:48 <greenfly> they went with /opt, so that's what we have
Dec 01 17:23:57 <Shapeshifter> but in opt, do libraries still get shared?
Dec 01 17:24:10 <greenfly> they can provided you add their individual paths to your library path
Dec 01 17:24:24 <greenfly> that's the major downside when you optify, your paths can get huge
Dec 01 17:24:27 <Shapeshifter> and apt does that?
Dec 01 17:24:34 <Shapeshifter> when installing a package?
Dec 01 17:24:50 <greenfly> if your package is intelligent enough to update the library paths it affects
Dec 01 17:25:17 <greenfly> in many cases, though, at least in my experience, optified packages are self-contained
Dec 01 17:25:25 <lardman> hmm, need to vpn, bbiam
Dec 01 17:25:36 <greenfly> so outside packages don't have to use their libraries as much
Dec 01 17:26:48 <Shapeshifter> but, so, in essence all this means that except for big independend apps like open office, eclipse, all that like, apps will get installed to the 256mb partition which will be full in no time.
Dec 01 17:26:56 <greenfly> Shapeshifter: no
Dec 01 17:27:06 <greenfly> it means all apps /should/ change so they install in /opt
Dec 01 17:27:19 <greenfly> and anything in /usr should expect to be overwritten during a firmware update
Dec 01 17:27:53 <jebbajeb> that does make sense in the case of having to reflash the thing.
Dec 01 17:27:53 <Shapeshifter> but, well, you answered this already, but I really think that's a problem with shared libs then.
Dec 01 17:28:26 <greenfly> Shapeshifter: any extra libs you add just need to update the system library path so they are included
Dec 01 17:28:31 <greenfly> same goes for the system binary path
Dec 01 17:28:38 <kalikianatoli> Shapeshifter,  if you reflash it, you can reinstall from a backup
Dec 01 17:28:46 <Shapeshifter> greenfly: and, on a reflash /opt stays?
Dec 01 17:28:55 <Shapeshifter> but then, PATH is gone.
Dec 01 17:29:11 <jebbajeb> greenfly: but what to do in the interim?  https://wiki.maemo.org/Booting_from_a_flash_card  ?   How to solve / at 100% (besides removing apps, which I did to get it down to 96%)
Dec 01 17:29:17 <greenfly> Shapeshifter: honestly I'm not too well-versed in what the backup/restore features in NUS or whatever does and doesn't do
Dec 01 17:29:20 <Shapeshifter> and also, flashing will erase the database anyway.
Dec 01 17:29:24 <jebbajeb> Shapeshifter: ya /opt probably stays on reflash
Dec 01 17:29:55 <lardman> hmm, probably not
Dec 01 17:30:00 <Shapeshifter> the apt database?
Dec 01 17:30:12 <lardman>  /opt
Dec 01 17:30:14 <Shapeshifter> database gone, path gone.
Dec 01 17:30:32 <Shapeshifter> things in /opt will be corpses after a reflash anyway, won't they?
Dec 01 17:30:38 <greenfly> IIRC the backup/restore tool makes note of the packages you had before reflash and can reinstall
Dec 01 17:30:41 <lardman> they get flashed away anyway
Dec 01 17:30:44 <jebbajeb> a reboot DID free up quite a bit of space. I was at 96%, after reboot i'm at 77% full.   I had run an apt-get clean before reboot, but didnt seem to liberate space.  So ubi or whatever seems to free up on boot.
Dec 01 17:30:48 <Shapeshifter> ah
Dec 01 17:31:02 <greenfly> but again, I'm not well-versed on that tool
Dec 01 17:31:03 <lardman> assuming you flash the emmc image, which I guess will always happen
Dec 01 17:31:28 <crashanddie> Hi all
Dec 01 17:31:30 <greenfly> I do know certain aspects of /home/user stay and some settings are reset to "factory"
Dec 01 17:31:48 <greenfly> which makes sense if you think about it
Dec 01 17:32:02 <lardman>  /home/user in one mount point, /home/user/MyDocs is another
Dec 01 17:32:07 <greenfly> if a user screwed up their gconf database, for instance, you'd want a reflash to fix that
Dec 01 17:32:23 <jebbajeb> greenfly: do you have suggestions on best approach to increase / though?
Dec 01 17:32:33 <jebbajeb> gconf is sadness
Dec 01 17:32:47 <Archanamiya> ~burn himself
Dec 01 17:32:48 <greenfly> jebbajeb: have apps get optified, basically
Dec 01 17:32:49 * infobot pours gasoline all over himself, ignites the fire, and then enjoys some toasty marshmallows with the glorious blaze
Dec 01 17:32:53 <Archanamiya> xD
Dec 01 17:33:35 <jebbajeb> greenfly: ok, i'll see which apps are behaving incorrectly and bugzilla them
Dec 01 17:34:12 <Makavel> hello guys... what is the official language for Maemo?
Dec 01 17:34:32 <greenfly> Makavel: looks like you have a choice between C (if you use gtk) c++ (if you use qt) and python
Dec 01 17:34:33 <Archanamiya> ~slap himself
Dec 01 17:34:35 * infobot slaps himself, keep your grubby fingers to yourself!
Dec 01 17:34:35 <kalikianatoli> Makavel, there is a number of officially supported locales if you mean that
Dec 01 17:34:37 <jebbajeb> This is how it finds stuff in /opt.   Not sure how it would find them after reflash:
Dec 01 17:34:37 <jebbajeb> lrwxrwxrwx    1 root     root           22 Nov 30 22:25 /usr/bin/vim -> /opt/maemo/usr/bin/vim
Dec 01 17:35:09 <Makavel> kalikianatoli: i meant programming language
Dec 01 17:35:14 <kalikianatoli> oh, haha
Dec 01 17:35:17 <kalikianatoli> ignore me
Dec 01 17:35:57 <Shapeshifter> mgedmin: lots of C and python.
Dec 01 17:36:04 <Shapeshifter> uhm
Dec 01 17:36:07 <mgedmin> :)
Dec 01 17:36:09 <Shapeshifter> Makavel: ^
Dec 01 17:36:09 <Makavel> greenfly: for python on maemo, is it pyGtk or pyQt or PySide whatever
Dec 01 17:36:11 <lardman> hmm, so much for M$ openness, what about the spec for HCCB?
Dec 01 17:36:14 <jebbajeb> also, tons of space is taken up for i10n stuff.   I dont think i'm going to be speaking swedish anytime soon, unfortunately.  But if you remove them, they want to take the whole app with them (e.g. remove swedish for calendar, the calendar wants to be removed too).  Seems the app shouldn't dep on the i10n.
Dec 01 17:36:28 <greenfly> Makavel: not sure, presumably pyGtk and pyQt at least
Dec 01 17:36:37 <mgedmin> Makavel, for maemo 5, PyGtk (+ Python hildon bindings), although PyQt and PySide might also work
Dec 01 17:36:42 <lardman> jebbajeb: valid point, file a bug though
Dec 01 17:36:43 <Shapeshifter> Makavel: you can pretty much use what you want. I heard pyside is outdated. I myself use pyqt and it's awesome.
Dec 01 17:37:00 <mgedmin> python apps have some disadvantages on maemo, compared to C apps (slower startup speed, larger memory usage)
Dec 01 17:37:24 <mgedmin> well, they have those disadvantages on desktops too, but maemo is more resource-constrained
Dec 01 17:37:37 <lcuk> lack of tab key is another maemo specific one ;)
Dec 01 17:37:42 <Makavel> shapeshifter: but pyside was released not too long ago but how can it be outdated?
Dec 01 17:37:46 <kalikianatoli> lcuk, use ctrl+i
Dec 01 17:37:48 <kalikianatoli> :P
Dec 01 17:38:38 <jebbajeb> lcuk: no |  (pipe) on keyboard made me almost cry.
Dec 01 17:38:58 <Makavel> I am asking because... i dont know C but know some C++ and python. Dont know gtk but know some Qt
Dec 01 17:39:41 <greenfly> jebbajeb: easy enough to add to the xterm
Dec 01 17:39:46 <jebbajeb> what's apt equivalent of `rpm -qf  /usr/lib/microb-engine/libxul.so`   (e.g. how to find out which package name libxul.so belongs to)?
Dec 01 17:39:50 <greenfly> the gconf command is online
Dec 01 17:39:54 <wjt> dpkg -S
Dec 01 17:40:07 <jebbajeb> greenfly: ah, didn't know that. just been using this thing for a few hours now  ;)  thx
Dec 01 17:40:25 <jebbajeb> wjt: thx
Dec 01 17:40:31 <Shapeshifter> Makavel: I said "heard" it was outdated. I read it on the forums.
Dec 01 17:40:46 <Shapeshifter> Makavel: both C and gtk are easy to learn
Dec 01 17:40:55 <Shapeshifter> specially if you already know C++.
Dec 01 17:40:57 <lizardo> Makavel: well it is not, in fact it currently supports Qt 4.6 :)
Dec 01 17:41:02 <lizardo> Shapeshifter: ^
Dec 01 17:41:09 <Shapeshifter> oh okay.
Dec 01 17:41:26 <lizardo> PyQt in Maemo 5 seems compiled against qt 4.5
Dec 01 17:41:53 * hardaker2 supposes it's time to learn how to package .debs.  Been doing .rpms for too long now.
Dec 01 17:42:12 <DangerMaus> Klowner like where the heck is fedex?
Dec 01 17:42:27 <Shapeshifter> is pyside better then pyqt? I see they're compatible atm.
Dec 01 17:42:37 <DangerMaus> i bet they show up rite at 1300
Dec 01 17:42:45 <DangerMaus> oops
Dec 01 17:42:46 <lizardo> Shapeshifter: what do you mean by "better" ?
Dec 01 17:42:48 <DangerMaus> 1500
Dec 01 17:44:27 <Shapeshifter> lizardo: well, that's the question. does it have a brighter future then pyqt? is it somehow faster?
Dec 01 17:44:31 <Shapeshifter> smaller?
Dec 01 17:44:32 <Shapeshifter> more up to date?
Dec 01 17:45:54 <kalikianatoli> hardaker, http://cdbs-doc.duckcorp.org
Dec 01 17:46:06 <lizardo> Shapeshifter: faster ? we still need to measure ; smaller ? no at the current version, but we are working on it; more up to date ? well, we already support the new classes in Qt 4.6 that AFAIK PyQt does not (might be wrong though, I haven't been following PyQt development)
Dec 01 17:46:17 <hardaker> kalikianatoli: heh; thanks.
Dec 01 17:46:19 <mikedg-blau> only one fucking maemo device in 2k10
Dec 01 17:46:21 <mikedg-blau> wtf
Dec 01 17:46:31 <hardaker> (the good news is that once I learn it I'll likely be packaging a crapload of stuff)
Dec 01 17:46:40 <lardman> mikedg-blau: year's not over
Dec 01 17:46:43 <Shapeshifter> lizardo: ookay. I'll need to just try it.
Dec 01 17:46:49 <mikedg-blau> 10 i said
Dec 01 17:47:01 <lardman> likewise ;)
Dec 01 17:47:06 <mikedg-blau> lol
Dec 01 17:47:07 <mikedg-blau> touche!
Dec 01 17:50:19 <jebbajeb> on another note, my SDK installer has been hung at "Preconfiguring packages" for like 10 hours....
Dec 01 17:51:47 <jebbajeb> exiting the package installer doesn't do an `apt-get clean`  So perhaps I hit 100% cuz /var/cache got full (?).    Perhaps the fone could mount /tmp /var/tmp /var/cache etc outside the 256M to save space. They don't matter for reflash.
Dec 01 17:52:26 <lardman> ~lart VB & MATLAB
Dec 01 17:52:27 * infobot slaps VB & MATLAB upside and over the head with one freakishly huge killer whale named hugh
Dec 01 17:52:43 <Klowner> DangerMaus: I dunno, mine ain't here yet either
Dec 01 17:53:00 <DangerMaus> ticc toc tic toc
Dec 01 17:53:17 <DangerMaus> atleast it should be here by 3pm
Dec 01 17:55:01 <jebbajeb> another newbie question. I downloaded and saved an mp3 with the webbrowser (which it put in a hidden dir!), but the "media player" doesn't appear to have any way to open files, AFAICT (??!).    kmplayer the way to do that or what?    I dont even see a way to remove all the pre-installed media, for which i have no use (other than xterm of course)
Dec 01 17:55:14 <user_> hello
Dec 01 17:55:43 <ccooke> jebbajeb: tracker should find it and make the media player see it.
Dec 01 17:56:04 <lardman> jebbajeb: or double click from the filemanager
Dec 01 17:56:26 <derf> You can't open files?
Dec 01 17:56:28 <hardaker> jebbajeb: use the file manager to put it in ~/MyDocs/.sounds
Dec 01 17:56:32 <derf> That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard.
Dec 01 17:56:47 <lardman> nah, leave it wherever, should still be seen
Dec 01 17:57:12 <derf> Some of us don't _want_ a media scanner running.
Dec 01 17:57:15 <jebbajeb> ah ya, via filemanager...gotcha hehe
Dec 01 17:57:18 <derf> And have no need for one.
Dec 01 17:57:35 <ccooke> derf: in which case, you'll use an alternate media player and manage it yourself, surely?
Dec 01 17:57:35 <lardman> derf: is better than metacrawler afaict ;)
Dec 01 17:57:43 <jebbajeb> working now.. just need to find my way around this sucker still
Dec 01 17:57:59 <derf> ccooke: Apparently I'll have to.
Dec 01 17:58:23 <ccooke> derf: well, you can. And for the average user, their media 'just works' ;-)
Dec 01 18:00:28 <jebbajeb> i can't believe how responsive this thing is. I have a sharp netwalker (most recent zaurus, basically), and its waaaaaaaaaay slower. Pretty similar specs too (but netwalker has even more ram)
Dec 01 18:02:12 <ShadowJK> and people complain it's unresponsive...
Dec 01 18:03:03 <DocScrutinizer> darn, mediaplayer doesn't support flac
Dec 01 18:03:06 <jebbajeb> i dont know what they are talking about.  I run tons and it seems fast...
Dec 01 18:03:24 <jebbajeb> annoyingly ogg isn't supported out-of-the-box.  It's kind of even insulting.  ;)
Dec 01 18:03:27 <ShadowJK> DocScrutinizer, try oggsupport from extras?
Dec 01 18:03:33 <lardman> DocScrutinizer: should be as simple as adding the gst element
Dec 01 18:03:56 <DocScrutinizer> ShadowJK: thought I installed that 3h after opening the box. Will recheck. Thanks
Dec 01 18:04:01 <lardman> though subtitles don't work even with the correct elementr
Dec 01 18:05:27 <DocScrutinizer> nevertheless... bliss :-)
Dec 01 18:05:55 <ShadowJK> lardman, gstreamer has ass support or are these some other subtitles?
Dec 01 18:07:07 <jebbajeb> There is this package:   gstreamer0.10-flac
Dec 01 18:07:14 <jebbajeb> ogg-support doesn't have FLAC files in it
Dec 01 18:08:22 <DocScrutinizer> jebbajeb: aah
Dec 01 18:10:54 <DocScrutinizer> seems I need to config my progmngr repos somewhat better
Dec 01 18:11:55 <DocScrutinizer> jebbajeb: which repo is gstreamer0.10-flac supposed o be found?
Dec 01 18:12:10 <lardman> derf: quite interesting, shame there's no spec: http://www.microsoft.com/tag/content/overview/customtagguidelines.aspx
Dec 01 18:13:12 <kalikianatoli> ShadowJK, "gstreamer has ass support", call it libass at least :-)
Dec 01 18:13:20 <kalikianatoli> it reads horrible otherwise
Dec 01 18:13:25 <d4rkfe4r> How do I get my n810 to not check for updates when i add a Repository?
Dec 01 18:13:25 <jebbajeb> in the conversation app (IM), you increase the font size by using the volume rocker switch. This doesn't reflow the conversation though, so you have to left/right scroll, which is lame. Bug #5624  says that this wont be fixed since zoom will be removed. How to increase font size in conversations then???  I'm asking cuz i have a friend who wants n900, but says she can't read her SMSs cuz they are too small.
Dec 01 18:13:27 <povbot> Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5624 Zoom in/out in IM chat does not reflow contents
Dec 01 18:14:15 <jebbajeb> DocScrutinizer: i have -testing enabled, so it's probably there.  http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras-testing
Dec 01 18:14:53 <DocScrutinizer> jebbajeb: thnx
Dec 01 18:15:03 <lardman> mikkov: thanks for the comment
Dec 01 18:15:13 <lardman> mikkov: any thoughts as to what I can optify? ;)
Dec 01 18:15:23 <ShadowJK> hm.. ogg-support on fremantle atleast claims to depend on gstreamer0.10-flac
Dec 01 18:15:42 <hrw|gone> gstreamer in maemo5 should be rebuilt to support ALL options
Dec 01 18:15:46 <hrw> re
Dec 01 18:15:51 <lardman> :)
Dec 01 18:15:53 <jebbajeb> ShadowJK: could be that it drags in that package, but doesn't *include* it  (e.g. it's a dep)
Dec 01 18:16:00 <ShadowJK> no idea
Dec 01 18:16:14 <lardman> hrw: you mean the packages being built and some components not being included in the installation files?
Dec 01 18:16:19 <ShadowJK> istr something on the forum or bugtracker about it..
Dec 01 18:16:40 <hrw> lardman: there is no modplug plugin for example.
Dec 01 18:16:55 <konttori> wow, the qt 4.6 demo stuff is really cool looking
Dec 01 18:16:57 <hrw> lardman: it is not built by default
Dec 01 18:17:02 * RST38h once again looks for SDL experts
Dec 01 18:17:05 <RST38h> Anyone?
Dec 01 18:17:07 <hrw> konttori: and it is broken on maemo5
Dec 01 18:17:12 <konttori> it is?
Dec 01 18:17:26 <konttori> how come?
Dec 01 18:17:33 <hrw> konttori: Phonon::SeekSlider is broken
Dec 01 18:17:36 <kulve> ShadowJK: there's flac support, but without tags
Dec 01 18:18:32 <lardman> mikkov: when you say doesn't recognise, do you mean that it quite simply won't produce any text for a 2D/numbers for a 1D barcode?
Dec 01 18:18:36 <kulve> ShadowJK: ogg-support depends on gstreamer0.10-flac that adds the gst flac plugin and depends on actual libflac
Dec 01 18:18:51 <lardman> mikkov: in which case please give me an url to the image in question and I'll take a look
Dec 01 18:18:53 <konttori> hrw: is that the only broken thing?
Dec 01 18:19:11 <lardman> bbiam, need to reboot
Dec 01 18:19:28 <hrw> konttori: first found by me
Dec 01 18:19:30 <RST38h> Maybe someone has compiled stuff using CURSES?
Dec 01 18:19:46 <konttori> ah, but it's alpha quality still, so, a good catch
Dec 01 18:19:50 <hrw> konttori: remember that I am not maemo(ANYVER) developer basically
Dec 01 18:20:06 <hrw> konttori: but it follows Hildon UI more
Dec 01 18:20:17 <hrw> which made my app even less useful
Dec 01 18:20:43 <derf> lardman|gone: Looks devilishly hard to detect.
Dec 01 18:20:50 <kalikianatoli> hrw, what kind of app becomes less useful with a better qt?
Dec 01 18:21:04 <Corsac> well, qt...
Dec 01 18:22:08 <jebbajeb> hmm, app-manager should include $LICENSE in package summary....
Dec 01 18:22:12 <hrw> kalikianatoli: http://marcin.juszkiewicz.com.pl/tmp/pic12.jpg contra http://marcin.juszkiewicz.com.pl/tmp/pic13.jpg
Dec 01 18:22:28 <hrw> jebbajeb: app-manager should die (in painful way)
Dec 01 18:22:47 <jebbajeb> haha. why?
Dec 01 18:22:53 <kalikianatoli> Corsac, don't you think a foul mouthed beggar becomes nicer when you give him fresh clothes, metaphorically speaking? :-)
Dec 01 18:23:02 <Xisdibik> On the address section of Contacts   it has   "Extension"  and "Street" and then a few others
Dec 01 18:23:07 <Xisdibik> wtf is an extension in an address
Dec 01 18:23:09 <hrw> jebbajeb: try to install 5 applications with it
Dec 01 18:23:38 <Corsac> kalikianatoli: I'm just not sure the clothes are really worth it
Dec 01 18:23:42 <jebbajeb> oh ya.  you have to do them all one at a time. total pain in the ass. And you have to scroll to the bottom each time... and....
Dec 01 18:24:07 <kalikianatoli> hrw, oh, that's a bit of a drawback, yeah :-]
Dec 01 18:24:16 <jebbajeb> ...and you have to "agree" each time. And it appears to not `apt-get clean` when done...and...
Dec 01 18:24:32 <crashanddie> GAN900: trying to purchase an mbp from the apple store us... they can't use my bloody UK credit card, wankers
Dec 01 18:24:36 <lardman> re
Dec 01 18:25:05 <kalikianatoli> jebbajeb, it's not optimized for mass installing but the ui is very nice imho
Dec 01 18:25:49 <jebbajeb> kalikianatoli: yes. interface is ok.  Would be nice if you could hit "P" or whatever on the keyboard and have it scroll to the letter P or somesuch though.
Dec 01 18:26:40 <kalikianatoli> you're right actually. I tried typing letters a few times, automatically, and it didn't help
Dec 01 18:26:46 <DangerMaus> http://marcin.juszkiewicz.com.pl/tmp/pic12.jpg
Dec 01 18:26:59 <hrw> DangerMaus: yes?
Dec 01 18:27:07 <DangerMaus> not ready for public yet
Dec 01 18:27:20 <hrw> DangerMaus: that app?
Dec 01 18:27:20 <DangerMaus> oops wrong window
Dec 01 18:27:32 <DangerMaus> oops
Dec 01 18:27:33 <hrw> DangerMaus: I do not plan to release it for maemo5
Dec 01 18:27:50 <hrw> DangerMaus: at least not in this year
Dec 01 18:28:04 <DangerMaus> was showing someopne the sdk  with that pic
Dec 01 18:28:12 <DangerMaus> but pastred here instead
Dec 01 18:28:15 <hrw> ah
Dec 01 18:28:26 <DangerMaus> getting tired
Dec 01 18:28:30 <hrw> DangerMaus: pic12 is deprecated by qt 4.6 packages
Dec 01 18:28:58 <hrw> and current api of application does not even remind that one from pic12/13 ;D
Dec 01 18:29:12 <jebbajeb> lcuk: package liqcontrolpanel's summary is "short description" fyi
Dec 01 18:29:35 <DangerMaus> heh
Dec 01 18:30:15 * hardaker considers porting bacula
Dec 01 18:34:14 <jebbajeb> timezone data is wrong for buenos aires, argentina....
Dec 01 18:34:29 <RST38h> javis!
Dec 01 18:34:43 <RST38h> javis: where do I get SDL_ttf?
Dec 01 18:35:42 <hrw> RST38h: normally you get it from repository as libsdl-ttf2.0-0 package. but under maemo?
Dec 01 18:36:01 <GeneralAntilles> crashanddie, sucks
Dec 01 18:37:10 <RST38h> hw: yes, under maemo?
Dec 01 18:37:17 <jebbajeb> RST38h: libsdl-ttf2.0-0
Dec 01 18:37:26 <RST38h> thanks =)
Dec 01 18:37:59 <hrw> RST38h: under maemo different things happens
Dec 01 18:38:11 <RST38h> not found
Dec 01 18:38:36 <debayan> wow!
Dec 01 18:40:07 <jebbajeb> RST38h: libsdl-ttf2.0  phaps
Dec 01 18:40:18 <jebbajeb> # apt-cache search SDL_ttf
Dec 01 18:40:18 <jebbajeb> libsdl-pango1 - text rendering with Pango in SDL applications (shared library)
Dec 01 18:40:18 <jebbajeb> libsdl-ttf2.0-0 - ttf library for Simple DirectMedia Layer with FreeType 2 support
Dec 01 18:40:40 <RST38h> hmmm
Dec 01 18:40:45 <jebbajeb> you may need -testing enabled (I do).  Not sure how to tell with dpkg/apt which repo a package is from (being more of a yum/rpm user...)
Dec 01 18:41:04 <RST38h> not here :( what epo is it in?
Dec 01 18:41:07 <hardaker> jebbajeb: any chance that's in -devel?  I have testing enabled and those don't show up.
Dec 01 18:42:52 <jebbajeb> hardaker: I have -extras and -extras-testing enabled only
Dec 01 18:44:09 <jebbajeb> hardaker: RST38h:    my repos:    http://pastebin.com/m74694600
Dec 01 18:44:38 <hardaker> looks like mine.
Dec 01 18:44:39 <hardaker> odd.
Dec 01 18:44:40 <jebbajeb> so for bugzilla, would bad timezone data be filed under "core" or "system software".   I think it is a part of libc....
Dec 01 18:44:59 <hardaker> wait, there it is.
Dec 01 18:45:05 <hardaker> searching for ttf2 didn't work.
Dec 01 18:45:06 <hardaker> odd.
Dec 01 18:45:08 <lcuk> jebbajeb, that package was wrong to be there in the first place
Dec 01 18:45:29 * hardaker looks for his typo
Dec 01 18:45:36 <RST38h> jebba: thanks
Dec 01 18:45:58 <DangerMaus> Klowner,  GOT IT!!!!!
Dec 01 18:46:19 <jebbajeb> np
Dec 01 18:46:55 <lardman> mikkov: thanks
Dec 01 18:47:17 <hardaker> ah shell typo.
Dec 01 18:47:26 <hardaker> meta-back didn't clear the previous word
Dec 01 18:47:32 * hardaker installs bash
Dec 01 18:49:13 <javispedro> RST38h: you, creator of packrat, asking me to find a package? =)
Dec 01 18:49:54 <RST38h> yep=)
Dec 01 18:51:51 <RST38h> javis: looks like none of you, cruel bastards, are going to compile Vulture's Eye for me, so I decided to attempt it myself
Dec 01 18:52:03 <RST38h> javis: Missing TTF and proper curses
Dec 01 18:52:18 <javispedro> :)
Dec 01 18:52:24 <javispedro> enjoy the build :)
Dec 01 18:52:34 <RST38h> argh.
Dec 01 18:54:33 <Klowner> DangerMaus: I still wait :(
Dec 01 18:56:14 <RST38h> Ok, I installed libSDL-ttf, but the header files are not there =(
Dec 01 18:56:16 <frals> hmm.. seems i made a backup of the wrong image when i nuked my sdk the other day... hope i commited all changes, doh
Dec 01 18:56:21 <RST38h> Where do I get the header?
Dec 01 18:56:34 <Flandry> ~seen pupnik
Dec 01 18:56:39 <infobot> pupnik <n=pupnik@unaffiliated/pupnik> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 1d 13h 23m 1s ago, saying: 'sorry maemo'.
Dec 01 18:57:25 <DangerMaus> well only 2h max Klowner
Dec 01 18:58:01 <Klowner> then I'll probably hafta put it on the charger
Dec 01 18:58:41 <javispedro> RST38h: 	libsdl-ttf2.0-dev
Dec 01 18:58:53 * DangerMaus is taking his time 
Dec 01 18:59:01 <Flandry> kalikianatoli: Any luck installing uqm?
Dec 01 18:59:19 <RST38h> javis: not here
Dec 01 18:59:24 <RST38h> which repo?
Dec 01 18:59:34 <javispedro> Source 	http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/ (Maemo 5)
Dec 01 19:00:08 <RST38h> aha
Dec 01 19:00:54 * zaheer_ starts working on a gcal sync app.... (not sure if i want the headache but i've now had enough of not having gcal in the calendar app on my phone)
Dec 01 19:00:59 <DangerMaus> hmmm it came with a usb cable that wasnt listed as in the box
Dec 01 19:01:29 <jebbajeb> anyone know of good end-user documentation for maemo/n900 in PDF format?
Dec 01 19:02:23 <Flandry> there's a user manual from Nokia in pdf
Dec 01 19:02:25 <RST38h> javis: Another stupid question: what do I do to make nethack find curses.h?
Dec 01 19:02:30 <Flandry> search on talk
Dec 01 19:02:36 <RST38h> javis: the only copy is in /usr/include/ncursesw
Dec 01 19:02:41 <Flandry> RST38h: curse, of course
Dec 01 19:03:39 * RST38h curses, with no result
Dec 01 19:03:43 <mece> grr argh why oh why does extras repo complain about gpg error in the sdk?
Dec 01 19:04:19 <RST38h> Fuck: vultures_sound.cpp:8:23: error: SDL_mixer.h: No such file or directory
Dec 01 19:04:57 <konttori> I love how pc mag review starts: "The Nokia N900 is a 3G, Linux smartphone with XTerm built in. If the idea of hacking your phone down to the command line with the manufacturer's full approval sends you into paroxysms of joy, forget reading the rest of this review and just buy one now."
Dec 01 19:05:15 <Flandry> ha
Dec 01 19:05:26 <jebbajeb> RST38h: SDL_mixer is likely another package (it is in fedora land at least)
Dec 01 19:05:31 <RST38h> yea
Dec 01 19:05:39 <Flandry> i'm not sure the readership of pc mag would consider that a promotion
Dec 01 19:05:51 <hardaker> konttori: I'd would have shortened it to "if the idea of SSHing into your phone makes you reach for your wallet, then reach fast"
Dec 01 19:05:55 <RST38h> konttori: Arkenoi (guy who won n900 at the meetup here) wrote maybe the best n900 review I have seen
Dec 01 19:05:57 <jebbajeb> The system DEFINITELY frees up space on / on reboot  BTW
Dec 01 19:06:04 <RST38h> no shit sherlock
Dec 01 19:06:09 <mece> konttori, pretty sweet. I'd follow their advice.
Dec 01 19:06:13 <lcuk> the average consumer will say "omg i have to use the console to make a call" o_O
Dec 01 19:06:23 <javispedro> omg console
Dec 01 19:06:25 <Flandry> yeah
Dec 01 19:06:39 <mece> lcuk, I've been looking for an easy method to make calls from xterm
Dec 01 19:06:52 <hardaker> omg, I *can* use the console to script a call.  Sweet!
Dec 01 19:07:11 <GeneralAntilles> lcuk, heck, the self-proclaimed "hackers" can't even manage to use XTerm to browse around the directory trees. ;)
Dec 01 19:07:16 <mece> hardaker, yeah, but has anyone made such a script? If yes, then I wants it
Dec 01 19:07:19 <Flandry> Time for Jerky Boys: 21st Century
Dec 01 19:07:21 <lcuk> mece, start xterm, telnet into the irc chan your work collegue is in, ask him to make call on your behalf
Dec 01 19:07:23 <lcuk> simple
Dec 01 19:07:37 <mece> lcuk, haha yeah.
Dec 01 19:07:45 <RST38h> General: You mean the "maemo5 emulator" hackers?
Dec 01 19:07:56 <hardaker> while(1) { $phonenum++; if (place_call($phonenum) == ANSWERED) { log_modem_at_site($phonenum); } }
Dec 01 19:08:01 <RST38h> Or the red pill ones?
Dec 01 19:08:05 <GeneralAntilles> RST38h, in this case, ChristExaport and his File Manager roadblock.
Dec 01 19:08:11 <RST38h> Oh
Dec 01 19:08:20 <GeneralAntilles> hardaker, and, yes, dbus.
Dec 01 19:08:30 * RST38h suggested MC, but apparently none of them listened
Dec 01 19:08:43 <RST38h> Funny, given that MC is easier to use than EmelFM
Dec 01 19:08:46 <lcuk> mc is c c c c c console
Dec 01 19:08:47 <hardaker> GeneralAntilles: org.wardialler.keypad?
Dec 01 19:08:53 <mece> GeneralAntilles, he's absolutely right though...
Dec 01 19:08:57 <RST38h> lcuk: Who gives a damn? It works
Dec 01 19:09:10 <lcuk> its not got kinetics
Dec 01 19:09:11 <konttori> isn't there a dbus call to make a phone call
Dec 01 19:09:17 <mece> RST38h, is MC in extras?
Dec 01 19:09:28 <konttori> mece: ^
Dec 01 19:09:36 * lardman wonders why mikkov has such problems using mbarcode when it seems to work fine for me
Dec 01 19:09:46 <RST38h> mece: should be
Dec 01 19:09:52 <lcuk> he might  be holding his bacodes upside down
Dec 01 19:09:59 <lardman> nah, that works fine
Dec 01 19:10:06 <lardman> http://www.sagedata.com/images/2007/Code_128_Barcode_Graphic.jpg
Dec 01 19:10:15 <lardman> that's the link he sent saying it worked ok full size
Dec 01 19:10:17 <lardman> hmm
Dec 01 19:10:18 <lcuk> lighting makes a big difference
Dec 01 19:10:34 <lardman> yeah
Dec 01 19:10:39 <RST38h> gentlemen, I am really soryr, but could someone help me with curses.h?
Dec 01 19:10:42 <lcuk> oh this is from stock images?
Dec 01 19:10:58 <plr_> I tried once the barcodereader and it worked nicely
Dec 01 19:11:10 <mece> RST38h, is your curses.h being difficult?
Dec 01 19:11:11 <RST38h> What am I supposed to do to make the build process see curses.h if I have ncrusesw installed?
Dec 01 19:11:13 <lardman> plr_: thank you for your kind words
Dec 01 19:11:14 <GeneralAntilles> mece, that the built-in File Manager should expose / and have root permissions?
Dec 01 19:11:25 * lardman adds plr_  to the XMas card list ;)
Dec 01 19:11:37 <plr_> :) your welcome
Dec 01 19:11:40 * lcuk thinks plr_ is mrs lardman
Dec 01 19:11:45 <lardman> lol
Dec 01 19:11:47 <plr_> haha
Dec 01 19:11:50 <lardman> no, she;s on the road atm
Dec 01 19:11:51 <Flandry> rofl
Dec 01 19:12:09 * qwerty12_N900 thinks mbarcode sucks
Dec 01 19:12:20 * lardman knows qwerty12_N900 like to
Dec 01 19:12:28 <lardman> s/like/likes
Dec 01 19:12:29 <mece> GeneralAntilles, I don't think he mentioned root, anyone knows that's ridiculous. The counterwhining elite mentioned root. But yes, it should expose / as an option.
Dec 01 19:12:33 <plr_> I'm irxing from my n900, I could be on the road ;)
Dec 01 19:12:34 <lardman> kind of lost its impact now
Dec 01 19:12:48 <jaem> it did when I tried it, but it wasn't done, so I reserve judgement.  It sounds like it will be awesome,thoguh
Dec 01 19:12:51 <lardman> plr_: not knowing how fast she drives
Dec 01 19:12:52 <jaem> :P
Dec 01 19:12:56 <qwerty12_N900> lardman: No, I don't want a Velvet Rub from you
Dec 01 19:12:57 <jebbajeb> RST38h: you likely need all the -dev packages as well. Like ncurses-dev (just guessing at the name there).  The .h files don't come in the regular packages.
Dec 01 19:13:21 <lardman> qwerty12_N900: over my head, what pron would you recommend? :p
Dec 01 19:13:34 <qwerty12_N900> lardman: 2 girls 1 cup
Dec 01 19:13:38 <lcuk> lardman, could you just paste that barcode pic link again plz
Dec 01 19:13:40 <mece> LOL
Dec 01 19:13:55 <lardman> http://www.sagedata.com/images/2007/Code_128_Barcode_Graphic.jpg
Dec 01 19:14:08 <mece> RST38h, lemme check that. I had problems with curses when I compiled despotify a while back.
Dec 01 19:14:10 <lcuk> top notch
Dec 01 19:14:17 <lcuk> that looks superb
Dec 01 19:14:27 <jaem> mece, despot-ify? O_o
Dec 01 19:14:34 <javispedro> even though I have to wonder why a SDL app requires curses?
Dec 01 19:14:37 <jaem> or de-spotify
Dec 01 19:14:44 <mece> de-spotify.
Dec 01 19:14:47 <jaem> lol
Dec 01 19:15:13 <mece> i needed this: libncursesw5-dev
Dec 01 19:15:16 * lardman goes to try to write some AWS code to deal with the 1D codes
Dec 01 19:15:50 <lardman> what people should really try is the QR codes, the code is stunning, quite happily recognised out of focus, etc. Well done derf
Dec 01 19:16:25 <mece> RST38h, I was missing libncursesw5-dev then. dunno if that helps you though.
Dec 01 19:16:29 <lcuk> lardman, timing outlay?
Dec 01 19:16:35 <lcuk> how long does it take to identify
Dec 01 19:16:37 <lcuk> from a frame
Dec 01 19:16:45 <lardman> QR and 1D are very quick
Dec 01 19:16:47 <javispedro> i've been today in the citilib/#maebar area
Dec 01 19:16:52 <javispedro> pretty small building :)
Dec 01 19:16:53 <lardman> dmtx is very slow, and not very good either
Dec 01 19:17:09 <zaheer_> javispedro, enough for 130?
Dec 01 19:17:11 <lcuk> the qr shoiuld be quick, it recognises corners first
Dec 01 19:17:27 <lardman> easy to say ;)
Dec 01 19:17:36 <lcuk> lardman, not really
Dec 01 19:17:48 <lcuk> ive got always on bullseye recognition code running here
Dec 01 19:17:49 <RST38h> mece: ok, trying
Dec 01 19:17:50 <javispedro> zaheer_, guess so. There seems to be three roms which I calculated to be able to hold 30~45
Dec 01 19:18:03 <lcuk> its the same stuff i had way back when to recognise the guardbars
Dec 01 19:18:05 <lardman> lcuk: playing darts these days?
Dec 01 19:18:15 <RST38h> mece: I have it
Dec 01 19:18:18 <Flandry> despotify should just be called bleach
Dec 01 19:18:21 <lcuk> lol and then some
Dec 01 19:18:28 <javispedro> and maybe some more hidden roms :)
Dec 01 19:18:43 <mece> RST38h, bummer..
Dec 01 19:18:49 <javispedro> the area is low-density residential, there's a shopping center at 10 minutes
Dec 01 19:18:55 <zaheer_> javispedro, don't say roms too loudly, nintendo peeps may be here :)
Dec 01 19:19:00 <mece> Flandry, how so?
Dec 01 19:19:02 <javispedro> er, I mean rooms :)
Dec 01 19:19:10 <zaheer_> i figured ;)
Dec 01 19:19:14 <Flandry> spot remover...
Dec 01 19:19:21 <mece> aaahaha
Dec 01 19:19:23 <jebbajeb> so what's the best app for "video conferencing" ?
Dec 01 19:19:25 <mece> good one.
Dec 01 19:19:38 <zaheer_> jebbajeb, none currently
Dec 01 19:19:57 <jebbajeb> i saw some mention of pidgin being able to do it, but havent tried
Dec 01 19:21:08 <wjt> jebbajeb: well, previous versions of maemo have had built-in support for video calls, and there's a webcam in the front of the n900, ...
Dec 01 19:21:37 <mgedmin> previous maemos could only do video over google talk
Dec 01 19:21:41 <mgedmin> can n900 do video over google talk?
Dec 01 19:21:56 <mgedmin> you'd need a guy with a nit on the other side of the google talk to test it, I suppose
Dec 01 19:22:01 <wjt> not only google talk
Dec 01 19:22:02 <jaem> mgedmin, I thought it could, but I can't remember
Dec 01 19:22:09 <wjt> n810 supported video calls on xmpp and SIP
Dec 01 19:22:13 <jaem> I only have one contact I could test it with
Dec 01 19:22:14 <mgedmin> also, I heard rumours that skype video is going to happen on the n900 at some point in the future
Dec 01 19:22:18 <jaem> since she has an N900
Dec 01 19:22:20 <jaem> mgedmin, ooooh
Dec 01 19:22:23 <jebbajeb> i did a google talk call last night but didnt see any options for video
Dec 01 19:22:24 <mgedmin> wjt, really? ooh
Dec 01 19:22:28 <jaem> oh really? do tell
Dec 01 19:22:46 <mgedmin> I'd heard that it supported some weird Google-only version over XMPP instead of following the Jingle spec
Dec 01 19:22:54 <mgedmin> or maybe Jingle was the name of the weird google-only version
Dec 01 19:22:59 <wjt> no, gabble on the n800 was the first implementation of Jingle
Dec 01 19:23:02 <mgedmin> maybe I'm thinking about the N800, and N810 was better
Dec 01 19:23:04 <wjt> which is a derivative of Google's spec
Dec 01 19:23:04 <jaem> mgedmin, Jingle is Jabber standard
Dec 01 19:23:12 <jebbajeb> iax2 ?
Dec 01 19:23:28 <RST38h> Ok, seems to have solved curses problem
Dec 01 19:23:51 <wjt> telepathy-gabble on the n900 supports jingle, and also supports the dialect for video calls used by the gmail client
Dec 01 19:23:51 <mece> RST38h, can you make nethack use ncurses instead?
Dec 01 19:23:51 <mece> RST38h, how'd you do it?
Dec 01 19:23:51 <wjt> whether the higher layers do video calls is anothermatter
Dec 01 19:24:07 <RST38h> mece: -I/usr/include/ncursesw -DLINUX
Dec 01 19:24:24 <RST38h> Compiling Nethack now
Dec 01 19:24:27 <mece> DST38h, are we talking original nethack?
Dec 01 19:24:30 <mece> Awesome!
Dec 01 19:24:37 <RST38h> mece: whatever I got from the website
Dec 01 19:24:50 <mece> RST38h, sweet!
Dec 01 19:24:50 <RST38h> We are actually talking Vulture's Eye
Dec 01 19:24:59 <mgedmin> ooh
Dec 01 19:25:46 <GeneralAntilles> mece, why? emelfm2 is perfectly functional.
Dec 01 19:25:58 <zaheer_> wow http://hacks.mozilla.org/2009/12/webgl-goes-mobile/
Dec 01 19:25:58 <jebbajeb> wjt: well if telepathy-gabble does video conf and it is on the maemo5, uh, then doesnt n900 support video conf?
Dec 01 19:26:01 <GeneralAntilles> It's one of those options that including in the default FM is just going to get people in trouble.
Dec 01 19:26:24 <wjt> jebbajeb: gabble's just one component... you need the various UI bits to be in place too
Dec 01 19:26:28 <GeneralAntilles> mece, it's another thing Nokia has to test.
Dec 01 19:26:37 <GeneralAntilles> mece, implementing a feature like that is a non-trivial thing for Nokia.
Dec 01 19:26:47 <GeneralAntilles> I'd rather they spent their efforts elsewhere and ship a community solution.
Dec 01 19:27:11 <mece> GeneralAntilles, true true.
Dec 01 19:27:19 <Hydroxide> very brief question about harmattan: is the only publicly downloadable sdk-type stuff for harmattan the ui framework tech preview released at maemo summit?
Dec 01 19:27:29 <GeneralAntilles> mece, and describing it as a roadblock to "hacking" is just plain silly. ;)
Dec 01 19:29:09 <johnsq> Hi
Dec 01 19:30:26 <mece> GeneralAntilles, I agree with that. I didn't read that far into the thread. I just think it would be convenient. For me. I'd like to be able to browse to files other users have scp'd in to my device for example.
Dec 01 19:30:47 <mece> if they'd chmod a+r them
Dec 01 19:30:58 <simula> has anyone tried to get qt-creator running on their n900?
Dec 01 19:31:55 <Arkenoi> lardman, you got 1d working? i haven't :-( qr is reliable but no luck with 1d at all :-(
Dec 01 19:32:50 <elseayoukay> lardman
Dec 01 19:32:52 <elseayoukay> stroke:225,133~222,129~221,125~218,121~213,116~204,110~189,106~172,106~147,111~122,122~100,135~81,149~65,168~60,186~65,205~83,221~110,232~142,239~177,243~205,243~224,243~237,232~241,215~238,183~228,154~213,127~198,107~182,90~182,90
Dec 01 19:32:54 <lardman> Arkenoi: does it show the code?
Dec 01 19:33:05 <elseayoukay> hiding again
Dec 01 19:33:06 <lardman> Arkenoi: or not even that
Dec 01 19:33:18 <lardman> Arkenoi: I know the lookup stuff is pretty shoddy atm
Dec 01 19:33:26 <lardman> elseayoukay: what is that?
Dec 01 19:33:54 <qwerty12_N900> elseayoukay: /nick elcoq
Dec 01 19:33:59 <elseayoukay> what does it say it is
Dec 01 19:34:34 <lardman> just loads of numbers to me
Dec 01 19:34:40 <lcuk> at the start
Dec 01 19:34:43 <lcuk> its not numbers :P
Dec 01 19:34:48 <lardman> stroke: ?
Dec 01 19:35:29 <lcuk> sketches are made up of strokes
Dec 01 19:35:36 <jebbajeb> hmm, no dictionary application (!).   fantasdic or similar would rule (e.g. eng/span dictionary)
Dec 01 19:35:41 * lcuk finishes the smiley
Dec 01 19:35:49 <lardman> lcuk: I see
Dec 01 19:35:52 <elseayoukay> stroke:143,141~143,141~143,143~143,143~141,144~137,146~131,148~128,153~128,159~135,166~146,165~152,155~152,146~146,142~146,142
Dec 01 19:35:53 <elseayoukay> stroke:183,149~183,149~185,149~185,147~179,147~171,147~167,153~167,160~177,167~186,167~193,160~191,156~191,156
Dec 01 19:35:54 <elseayoukay> stroke:136,197~136,197~136,197~134,197~133,198~133,201~140,206~149,210~161,214~164,210~164,210
Dec 01 19:36:03 <RST38h> pleqse stop
Dec 01 19:36:07 <RST38h> please
Dec 01 19:36:12 <lcuk> now i wont be doing that here
Dec 01 19:36:13 <lcuk> i know
Dec 01 19:36:36 <lcuk> ive just left it alone today testing other things
Dec 01 19:36:41 <lcuk> like automatic avatar lookup
Dec 01 19:36:43 <mikkov> lardman: I've got better success with mbarcode now reading barcodes from dvds. Camera just seems to have focusing problems and it's not using leds as much as it probably should
Dec 01 19:37:02 <lardman> mikkov: it only uses LEDs when you click Scan!
Dec 01 19:37:03 <lcuk> and how well it detects media for automatic showing
Dec 01 19:37:17 <lardman> if you just tap the image it does a focus without (no idea why)
Dec 01 19:37:35 <lardman> mikkov: Pringles is difficult as the camera has a shallow focus
Dec 01 19:37:58 <kalikianatoli> Flandry, I'm not sure if it works. Should I need to enable the accelerometer somehow? I saw it in control options, but only the arrows actually move the ship
Dec 01 19:38:01 <lardman> mikkov: segfaults I'm sorry, my poor 1D lookup code, I should just disable that
Dec 01 19:38:42 <Flandry> did you reset the controls?
Dec 01 19:39:32 <Flandry> another user reported that the install didn't set the right permissions, so if you can run a few commands at the prompt it would be helpful
Dec 01 19:40:24 <RST38h> All personnel working around SCP-807 must be well-fed, and should preferably wear oral restraints to prevent accidental ingestion.
Dec 01 19:40:31 <kalikianatoli> Flandry, do you have an idea what file could be wrong? I have a terminal open
Dec 01 19:41:21 <Flandry> it's the /dev/input/uinput node, but i'm not sure why the install fails to fix it
Dec 01 19:41:28 <Flandry> /opt/uqm/accelemymote
Dec 01 19:41:33 <Flandry> it should say the same
Dec 01 19:41:42 <mikkov> lardman: sometimes the camera stops functioning, it just show all black image
Dec 01 19:42:45 <Flandry> Does that say "Uinput device node (at /dev/input/uinput) has the wrong permissions."?
Dec 01 19:43:00 <lardman> mikkov: it stops looking once it's decoded something?
Dec 01 19:43:17 <kalikianatoli> Flandry, when I run it, it tells me "Input node has wrong permissions, I'd blame udev"
Dec 01 19:44:06 <mikkov> lardman: picture stays black even if I press scan/cancel button repeatedly
Dec 01 19:44:14 <Flandry> Hmm do you have access to root?
Dec 01 19:44:16 <lardman> hmm
Dec 01 19:44:33 <lardman> mikkov: I thought I'd got rid of that problem
Dec 01 19:44:36 <kalikianatoli> Flandry, yep. I can fix or break as needed :-)
Dec 01 19:44:41 <lardman> mikkov: You're not switching apps are you?
Dec 01 19:44:42 <Flandry> :D
Dec 01 19:45:07 <kalikianatoli> Flandry, I'm not quite fluent with udev unfortunately
Dec 01 19:45:10 <Flandry> well check groups first, make sure "users" is listed
Dec 01 19:45:22 <mikkov> lardman: no I was using only mbarcode.
Dec 01 19:45:44 <lardman> mikkov: the image window is not double buffered, but when it was I used to see that problem
Dec 01 19:45:50 <jebbajeb> hmm, i run the barcode scan, but when i open the lens, the camera application starts.  Was able to quit it (it crashed actually). Now barcode program is running, but focus totally sucks.
Dec 01 19:46:04 <lardman> mikkov: I'll have to do some more testing
Dec 01 19:46:33 <lardman> btw I guess it got promoted into -testing?
Dec 01 19:46:36 <lcuk> lardman, inverse barcode, can i have barcode popup when it detects a photo been recorded into DCIM
Dec 01 19:46:40 <lardman> that was my hope anyway
Dec 01 19:46:52 <lcuk> so i use normal camera app to do the photo taking with focus ops etc
Dec 01 19:46:55 <kalikianatoli> Flandry, yep, 'users' exists
Dec 01 19:46:58 <jebbajeb> also barcode program seems to keep flipping from landscape to portrait mode...
Dec 01 19:46:58 <lardman> lcuk: yeah, there's a dbus call which should now work
Dec 01 19:47:03 <lcuk> and then once good image is done it will be processed
Dec 01 19:47:12 <lardman> lcuk: though I'll have to add the reading from file thing
Dec 01 19:47:17 * lcuk nods
Dec 01 19:47:19 <root> hi all
Dec 01 19:47:26 <Flandry> hmm maybe dpkg doesn't have root privileges after all
Dec 01 19:47:26 <root> i had a question about buildroot
Dec 01 19:47:31 <lcuk> how did you get root
Dec 01 19:47:33 <lardman> jebbajeb: do you keep twitching your arm? ;)
Dec 01 19:47:42 <jebbajeb> haha no
Dec 01 19:47:46 <kalikianatoli> Flandry, dpkg has to run as root, or it won't work
Dec 01 19:47:54 <jebbajeb> the book i'm scanning is laying on the table and i'm holding it above it tho
Dec 01 19:48:12 <ersin> this might sound ridiculous, but i'm trying to build openoffice in scratchbox
Dec 01 19:48:16 <Flandry> yeah well it failed to chgrp users /dev/input/uinput
Dec 01 19:48:16 <mikkov> lardman: I've had the black picture only twice.
Dec 01 19:48:17 <kalikianatoli> Flandry, the ham uses something else, though, it's not just dpkg
Dec 01 19:48:17 <lardman> yeah, that's not my fault, is the fault of the dbus message telling me to switch
Dec 01 19:48:20 <jebbajeb> lardman, ah, just got first scan to work
Dec 01 19:48:32 <Flandry> oh, well that's what i meant then
Dec 01 19:48:53 <lardman> I'm afraid lookups are currently rubbish, but I'm planning to sit down and write some AWS code this evening
Dec 01 19:49:00 <ersin> unfortunately, it turns out that the specific combination of gcc and buildroot in diablo scratchbox is incompatabile with openoffice, it seems like i have to downgrade to 2.14
Dec 01 19:49:02 <lardman> 2D lookups using QR are really good
Dec 01 19:49:25 <ersin> but while trying to build binutils 2.14 it gives me all kinds of errors because i don't have the maemo patches
Dec 01 19:49:40 <ersin> binutils 2.20 builds fine, but then i still get the same errors with openoffice
Dec 01 19:49:48 <Arkenoi> lardman: nothing at all, no fix
Dec 01 19:49:58 <ersin> is there any way to get around this?  or to downgrade binutils?  or perhaps even upgrade gcc?
Dec 01 19:50:16 <jebbajeb> it wasnt able to scan a book barcode probably because the book was orange-ish and there wasnt enough contrast (?)
Dec 01 19:50:20 <kalikianatoli> Flandry, I'm not sure what privileges package scripts have, I guess they can't modify just any file. would seem like a logical thing to restrict that
Dec 01 19:50:35 <lardman> jebbajeb: the camera needs a reasonable amount of light
Dec 01 19:50:39 <Flandry> how about: cat /etc/udev/rules.d/51-uinput-accelemymote.rules
Dec 01 19:50:46 <lardman> Arkenoi: what barcode is this?
Dec 01 19:50:53 <Flandry> yeah i know
Dec 01 19:50:59 <jebbajeb> lardman, i even went outside to try it.... (daylight here)
Dec 01 19:51:08 <Flandry> i'm just trying to figure out how to do this
Dec 01 19:51:11 <kalikianatoli> Flandry, KERNEL=="uinput", NAME="input/%k", MODE="0660", GROUP="users"
Dec 01 19:51:15 <lardman> jebbajeb: and the barcode fills the screen?
Dec 01 19:51:17 <Flandry> ok good
Dec 01 19:51:25 <Flandry> so a restart would probably fix it
Dec 01 19:51:35 <jebbajeb> lardman yes
Dec 01 19:51:43 <lardman> hmm, odd
Dec 01 19:51:52 <Flandry> or a re-mod?
Dec 01 19:51:56 <Flandry> not sure
Dec 01 19:52:19 <mikkov> lardman: It seems that barcodes which are resolved to some product name crashes mbarcode about 50 % of scans
Dec 01 19:52:24 <derf> lardman: An option to save the scanned image to a file would probably be invaluable for debugging.
Dec 01 19:52:29 <jebbajeb> lardman, also, i launch mbarcode, then open the camera, then the *camera* app launches.
Dec 01 19:52:34 <Arkenoi> lardman: just generic barcodes on books, dvd disks etc
Dec 01 19:52:36 <lardman> mikkov: yeah, that's the lookup code crashing
Dec 01 19:52:39 <fusi> this winmo phone is gonna meet a hard wall at high speed soon if it doesnt stop faffing abouut.
Dec 01 19:52:41 <kalikianatoli> Flandry, let me try reboot first
Dec 01 19:52:47 <Flandry> ok thanks a lot
Dec 01 19:53:03 <kalikianatoli> Flandry, or if it's helpful I can try something else first?
Dec 01 19:53:10 <tran228> please help me identify this song very easy http://www.musicuploader.org/MUSIC/550851259697143.mp3
Dec 01 19:53:10 <kalikianatoli> if it would help for packaging
Dec 01 19:53:21 <lardman> strange cos even with really poor light here I have no troubles reading 1D barcodes
Dec 01 19:53:36 <lardman> you do have to hold the N900 still for a second or two
Dec 01 19:53:59 <jebbajeb> lardman, ya, or else it kind of "wiggles".
Dec 01 19:54:00 <copumpkin> does anyone know of an implementation of tor for maemo?
Dec 01 19:54:02 <Flandry> well without knowing what rights HAM gives to install scripts i'm at a loss
Dec 01 19:54:03 <lardman> when you click the Scan! button it has to autofocus, etc
Dec 01 19:54:38 <tran228> please help me identify this song very easy http://www.musicuploader.org/MUSIC/550851259697143.mp3
Dec 01 19:54:43 <Flandry> i'm not that familiar with loading and unloading modules
Dec 01 19:54:44 <lardman> in fact performance is better on the N800 with the fixed focus camera
Dec 01 19:54:51 <jebbajeb> lardman, seems to not autofocus too much though, esp. when close
Dec 01 19:54:53 <kalikianatoli> Flandry, I did chgrp and according to accelemymote it's fixed
Dec 01 19:54:54 <|R> tran228: i don't know but it sounds horrible
Dec 01 19:54:56 <lardman> due to no autofocus lag
Dec 01 19:55:07 <Flandry> yeah i'd expect that
Dec 01 19:55:12 <jebbajeb> lardman, how to erase an entry that is there to try again?
Dec 01 19:55:19 <lardman> jebbajeb: you have to hold it at ~10cm, depends on the light though
Dec 01 19:55:22 <Flandry> how to get it to do that though...
Dec 01 19:55:29 <lardman> jebbajeb: just click scan again
Dec 01 19:55:59 <jebbajeb> also, i'm seeing corruption at the top of the screen (random pixels) at the taskbar/panel thing
Dec 01 19:56:12 <tran228> no one can tell me
Dec 01 19:56:19 <lardman> yeah, that's an artefact of the rotation
Dec 01 19:56:31 <lardman> not a major issue imo
Dec 01 19:56:46 <lardman> due to the camera display window being non-double buffered
Dec 01 19:57:11 <Flandry> i can't think of an alternative route. If you could verify it restarts with the right permissions and then actually test it in game that will be it.
Dec 01 19:57:40 <Flandry> i wonder how to find out the right way to do this
Dec 01 19:57:46 <mashiara> anyone here know definitive is N900 bootloader can handle bzImage (as opposed to zImage) ?
Dec 01 19:57:57 <lardman> Stskeeps: ?
Dec 01 19:58:09 <mashiara> seems not to be here now.
Dec 01 19:58:12 <copumpkin> can I use any version of the maemo SDK on the n800?
Dec 01 19:58:19 <copumpkin> or must it be an older version?
Dec 01 19:58:31 <Stskeeps> mashiara: no, i don't think so
Dec 01 19:58:38 <lardman> copumpkin: Diablo, 4.1 iirc
Dec 01 19:59:11 <mashiara> copumpkin: but it should be possible to install the diablo sdk stuff on a more recent scratchbox
Dec 01 19:59:38 <lardman> yeah, you can install it in the same one as the Fremantle stuff
Dec 01 19:59:43 <mashiara> stskeeps: I was wondering because the wiki page is kinda inconclusive
Dec 01 19:59:58 <mashiara> make bzImage but flash zImage, wtf ?
Dec 01 20:00:19 <Stskeeps> mashiara: i always use zImages :P
Dec 01 20:00:22 <Stskeeps> mashiara: see if it works? :P
Dec 01 20:00:32 <ersin> sorry to ask my question again, but does anyone have any idea how to change the binutils/gcc version in scratchbox, or how to compile openoffice in scratchbox?
Dec 01 20:00:55 <Myrtti> are you seriously trying to fit openoffice to a device?
Dec 01 20:00:57 <lardman> configure && make ?
Dec 01 20:01:03 <ersin> you better believe it
Dec 01 20:01:09 <ersin> lardman: ha thanks
Dec 01 20:01:13 <lardman> ;)
Dec 01 20:01:14 <ersin> :-P
Dec 01 20:01:20 <RST38h> nethack build finished
Dec 01 20:01:25 <ersin> i'm having problems with the binutils version
Dec 01 20:01:26 <jebbajeb> lardman, the main issue seems to be that it just isnt autofocusing well enough to take a good scan.  Won't autofocus on it in plain camera mode either. hmm
Dec 01 20:01:37 <ersin> i need to downgrade it to 2.14 to get the compile to work
Dec 01 20:01:39 <kalikianatoli> Flandry, hrm.. still the game doesn't seem to be aware of what I do at all
Dec 01 20:01:43 <Myrtti> I've given up on using them on my *desktop*, I hate to think how they'd perform on the bloody phone
Dec 01 20:01:47 <lardman> jebbajeb: try further away
Dec 01 20:01:49 <tran228> please help me identify this song very easy http://www.musicuploader.org/MUSIC/550851259697143.mp3
Dec 01 20:01:58 <mashiara> stskeeps: I was just thinking that since there is a limit to size of zImage (can't remember the actual size limit offhand) that maybe this was the problem why the custom kernel I compiled a while back would not boot
Dec 01 20:02:03 <ersin> Myrtti: have you used qole's easy-deb on the n800?
Dec 01 20:02:03 <lardman> ersin: downgrade, why?
Dec 01 20:02:04 <kalikianatoli> Flandry, I tried tilting the device with and without holding any keys, nothing happens
Dec 01 20:02:15 <ersin> Myrtti: that has openoffice 3 and it runs quite smoothly
Dec 01 20:02:25 <mikhas> but it is usuable?
Dec 01 20:02:33 <mikhas> is it*
Dec 01 20:02:35 <johnsq> Myrtti: it is usable with 586 32mb
Dec 01 20:02:37 <mashiara> stskeeps: since I just verified that if I just dpkg-buildpackage the stock kernel as-is I can flash it to the device and everything (seems to) works
Dec 01 20:02:40 <ersin> lardman: because the binutils + gcc combination is apparently incompatable
Dec 01 20:02:43 <Myrtti> ersin: great! I'd still not use it.
Dec 01 20:02:46 <Flandry> oh boy
Dec 01 20:02:56 <Myrtti> give me an editor and latex and I'll be a happy camper ;-)
Dec 01 20:02:56 <ersin> lardman: see this link, http://www.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=dev&msgNo=16329
Dec 01 20:03:03 <RST38h> Now building vultures...
Dec 01 20:03:15 <ersin> Myrtti: it may be difficult to believe, but I'm actually using my n800 as my main desktop machine
Dec 01 20:03:18 <Flandry> ok, run /opt/uqm/uqm-default and see if it lists the joystick in the log
Dec 01 20:03:24 * RST38h gives Myrtti ore latex
Dec 01 20:03:31 <Myrtti> oo, spanky
Dec 01 20:03:43 <RST38h> The editor could not be persuaded to move
Dec 01 20:03:50 <Flandry> also, see if the joystick device exists in /dev/ (probably /dev/input/js0)
Dec 01 20:03:57 <Myrtti> yeah, I've got mah geany anyway already
Dec 01 20:03:59 <lardman> ersin: you mean there's a problem with the source ;)
Dec 01 20:04:11 <lardman> ersin: but yeah, harsh, no idea sorry
Dec 01 20:04:13 <Flandry> note that it will only be there while accelemymote is running, and it dies when uqm ends
Dec 01 20:04:19 <ersin> lardman: yes yes =) but what can i do?  much easier to change binutils then ooo =)
Dec 01 20:04:31 <ersin> lardman: alright, thanks, i'll send an e-mail to the list
Dec 01 20:06:11 <kalikianatoli> Flandry, could 0 joysticks were found be a problem?
Dec 01 20:06:15 <RST38h> Myrtti: Is Geany usable on N900? Should be too small, no?
Dec 01 20:06:17 <Flandry> :P
Dec 01 20:06:31 <Flandry> lsmod | grep "joy"
Dec 01 20:06:39 <Myrtti> RST38h: I don't have a N900 to try it on
Dec 01 20:06:41 <RST38h> No joy found?
Dec 01 20:06:46 <RST38h> Myrtti: Oh
Dec 01 20:06:47 <copumpkin> hmm, the maemo scratchbox 4.1 installer is bugging me about only running on i386 (I'm on x86_64). Any way to work around this?
Dec 01 20:06:59 <kalikianatoli> Flandry, nothing
Dec 01 20:07:04 <Flandry> ah
Dec 01 20:07:11 <Flandry> modprobe joydev then i guess
Dec 01 20:07:15 <Flandry> crap :/
Dec 01 20:07:16 <RST38h> cpumpkin: Run 32bit Linux
Dec 01 20:07:31 <kalikianatoli> Flandry, doesn't exist
Dec 01 20:07:34 <Flandry> might not be compiled in
Dec 01 20:07:40 <copumpkin> RST38h: helpful, I'll be back in several hours after I migrate my stuff over to a new installation
Dec 01 20:07:43 <Flandry> well, poo
Dec 01 20:08:09 <Klowner> wtf is fedex
Dec 01 20:08:10 <Flandry> wait a minute, didn't gamepads work on N810
Dec 01 20:08:24 <Klowner> (er, that was a 'where' not a 'what')
Dec 01 20:08:46 <DangerMaus> Klowner, still nothing?
Dec 01 20:09:03 <DangerMaus> its awsome
Dec 01 20:09:05 <RST38h> ohmygod it wants bison
Dec 01 20:09:14 <Flandry> lol
Dec 01 20:09:16 <SpeedEvil> yacc!
Dec 01 20:09:21 <Flandry> nethack does?
Dec 01 20:09:22 <kalikianatoli> Flandry, I have to take care of something, I'll be back in a few.
Dec 01 20:09:30 <Flandry> ok, thanks for your time
Dec 01 20:09:34 <jebbajeb> lardman, you can watch what i'm talking about here:   https://qik.com/jebba   I *think* i'm doing it live, not sure!
Dec 01 20:10:03 * RST38h installls freaking bison and m4 for a good measure
Dec 01 20:10:11 <RST38h> Flandry: Vulture's
Dec 01 20:10:56 <RST38h> bison: subsidiary program `/scratchbox/tools/bin/m4' not found
Dec 01 20:11:00 <RST38h> What do I do about this one?
Dec 01 20:11:36 <Klowner> DangerMaus: still nothing, I'll be pissed if they decide to bring it tomorrow
Dec 01 20:11:49 <Klowner> I'll drive over to the distro facility
Dec 01 20:12:27 <DangerMaus> yepyep
Dec 01 20:12:40 <Flandry> looks like previous NITs required compilation of the joystick driver as well :?
Dec 01 20:12:50 <DangerMaus> times like this i look for fedex vs. ups truck accidents
Dec 01 20:13:06 <lardman> jebbajeb: looking now
Dec 01 20:14:12 <jebbajeb> ok 1 sec
Dec 01 20:16:52 <lardman> hmm, got to go help my wife with a bag
Dec 01 20:16:54 <lardman> bbiam
Dec 01 20:16:55 <jebbajeb> lardman, could you see that at all?  I think there is like 90 second delay or something
Dec 01 20:16:58 <lardman> I can see the book though
Dec 01 20:17:05 <jebbajeb> i just finished
Dec 01 20:17:11 <jebbajeb> doesnt focus for shit
Dec 01 20:17:27 <jebbajeb> I can't watch the qik channel tho cuz it doesnt work with gnash...
Dec 01 20:17:31 <lardman> you have to start Scan! when you;re in the right pos, it doens't focus all the time
Dec 01 20:18:03 <jebbajeb> well, even using qik it doesnt appear to focus, no matter how long i hold the thing
Dec 01 20:18:06 <spaghetty> hi
Dec 01 20:18:20 <jebbajeb> i did try a macro setting on the camera too. During that video everything was set to "automatic"
Dec 01 20:25:08 <mashiara> stskeeps: yay! Managed to compile and flash a working custom kernel with the NAT modules
Dec 01 20:25:22 <jebbajeb> cool congrats
Dec 01 20:25:33 <Stskeeps> mashiara: congrats :)
Dec 01 20:25:45 <konttori> so, we'll get 500 dollar 3g router?
Dec 01 20:25:57 <mashiara> if the same config patch can be used to compile usable NAT modules for the stock kernel I'll be really happy
Dec 01 20:25:58 <konttori> (kidding, really great stuff!)
Dec 01 20:26:03 <mashiara> think JoikuSpot killer...
Dec 01 20:26:35 <RST38h> Weird: Vulture's does not link executable file. What do I do now?
Dec 01 20:26:45 <Flandry> what did that involve, mashiara?
Dec 01 20:27:13 <Flandry> it looks like i'll need to build a kernel module too
Dec 01 20:27:27 <frals> mashiara: awesome with the NAT modules! :D
Dec 01 20:28:13 <jebbajeb> damn qik seemed to only keep the end of that vid hmm
Dec 01 20:28:20 <mashiara> flandry: in theory it doesn't involve much, in practise I for example so far always get symbol version mismatch when trying to compile the conntrack and nat modules for the stock kernel
Dec 01 20:28:39 <Flandry> eww
Dec 01 20:29:10 <mashiara> flandry: which is bad but not yet fatal, the fatal stuff comes from missing symbols but my latest configuration patch might be able to avoid that
Dec 01 20:29:54 <Flandry> is the source package for the kernel available? I didn't even check
Dec 01 20:30:01 <mashiara> Flandry: sure it is
Dec 01 20:30:04 <spaghetty> someone have some infos for sync N900 with linux, i mean contacts
Dec 01 20:30:20 <mashiara> Flandry: apt-get source kernel
Dec 01 20:30:20 <Flandry> why would you get symbol mismatch then?
Dec 01 20:30:31 <mashiara> Flandry: I have *no* idea
Dec 01 20:30:46 <cehteh> spaghetty: i hope rsync will work :P
Dec 01 20:31:29 <mashiara> Flandry: I'm even compiling it via dpkg-buildpacke, just adding a small extra step to the config-stamp to patch the .config
Dec 01 20:31:39 <spaghetty> really with evolution ? do you have some reference ?
Dec 01 20:31:42 <mashiara> to enable the modules I need
Dec 01 20:31:44 <Flandry> W: Unable to locate package kernel
Dec 01 20:32:10 <mashiara> Flandry: FREMANTLE_ARMEL target ?
Dec 01 20:32:11 <Flandry> There's kernel-source
Dec 01 20:32:18 <Flandry> doh
Dec 01 20:32:52 <lardman> jebbajeb: You have to remember the hw can't do continual autofocus, which means nothing while taking video
Dec 01 20:33:15 <jebbajeb> then user error.  HOWTO then?
Dec 01 20:33:41 <lardman> if you start mbarcode and it's not pointed in the right direction, etc., then tap the video image (and hold the N900 still) and it will pause the stream and autofocus then
Dec 01 20:34:00 <lardman> otherwise just hold it at the right distance when you tap Scan!
Dec 01 20:34:40 <RST38h> Ok, I am giving up :(((
Dec 01 20:34:52 <RST38h> This vulture's stuff does not link an executable
Dec 01 20:34:57 <lardman> it may be that the 1D code can be improved to handle out of focus in the same way that derf's QR code does
Dec 01 20:35:21 <lardman> so that focus is less important
Dec 01 20:35:28 <derf> Maybe, but it's difficult.
Dec 01 20:35:42 <lardman> well you did a good job with QR
Dec 01 20:35:42 <derf> 1-D barcodes rely heavily on the ratio between bar sizes.
Dec 01 20:36:04 <derf> In QR all of the elements are the same size, so I can just use the center of everything.
Dec 01 20:36:13 <lardman> hmm, ok
Dec 01 20:36:18 <jebbajeb> ok thx
Dec 01 20:36:22 <lardman> still possible, but perhaps not easy
Dec 01 20:36:26 <derf> Which is not impossible to do for 1-D...
Dec 01 20:36:33 <derf> But yeah, requires some substantial changes.
Dec 01 20:36:47 <lardman> but tbh datamatrix performance is pants, that needs serious work
Dec 01 20:37:09 <derf> It'll almost surely never be as robust as QR.
Dec 01 20:37:19 <lardman> I need to get some vague amazon lookup going, then I'll go back to the good stuff - algorithms :)
Dec 01 20:37:26 <derf> Though there has to be ways to make it substantially faster.
Dec 01 20:37:32 <lardman> yep
Dec 01 20:37:42 <mashiara> ls
Dec 01 20:37:47 <lardman> . ..
Dec 01 20:37:48 <mashiara> sorrty, wrong window...
Dec 01 20:45:57 <DangerMaus> damn the speakers in this thing sound great considering what it is
Dec 01 20:48:15 * Klowner stews
Dec 01 20:49:17 <mece> WebGL on N900. pretty cool.
Dec 01 20:51:11 <jebbajeb> how are updates with the app manager different from just a `apt-get update && apt-get upgrade`?
Dec 01 20:52:03 <Flandry> well for one thing, HAM will remove apps that aren't in /use/ when the package that depends on them is removed
Dec 01 20:54:06 <DangerMaus> Klowner, ?
Dec 01 20:54:21 <jebbajeb> i read that apt-get upgrade shouldnt be used (somewhere), but not sure if that's old info or not.  Sure easier to do apt-get upgrade, than tap tap tap....
Dec 01 20:54:50 <mece> apt-get dist-upgrade will brick the phone I hear.
Dec 01 20:55:33 <jebbajeb> "can", not will IIRC
Dec 01 20:56:05 <Klowner> DangerMaus: still nothing
Dec 01 20:56:18 <mashiara> stskeeps: this is weird I recompiled (again) modules for the stock kernel, inserting nf_conntrack fails with disagreement about symbol versions and two symbols missing alltogether, however inserting msdos.ko works fine...
Dec 01 20:56:20 <mece> right..
Dec 01 20:56:21 <kalikianatoli> jebbajeb, ham doesn't store packages in the root fs
Dec 01 20:57:09 <DangerMaus> wshake fist ah driver agter you got it in hand
Dec 01 20:57:14 <mashiara> stskeeps: dpkg-buildpackage should rebuild everything, right ? doing another test on a clean extract of the kernel source just to be sure...
Dec 01 20:58:00 <kalikianatoli> mashiara, you can see that does does because it oututs recursive rm commands when it starts :-)
Dec 01 20:58:06 <kalikianatoli> you don't have to hope it does
Dec 01 20:58:27 <mashiara> yeah, at this point I'm kind of paranoid
Dec 01 20:59:11 <mashiara> since one module compiled in SB at the same time as another works but other complains about symbol versions...
Dec 01 21:02:14 <mece> D'oh! I couldn't figure out why osso.Context() didn't work on an N900
Dec 01 21:03:14 <mece> Turns out you actually have to own the processes where the context is to run them. I didn't have the device so I ssh'd into a friends device. Didn't work. But it did work when he tried it locally on his phone.
Dec 01 21:03:18 * mashiara would really like to have some way to choose which kernel to boot
Dec 01 21:03:27 <mashiara> without flashing everytime
Dec 01 21:03:30 <mece> would have been cool to run notifications though..
Dec 01 21:04:03 <Stskeeps> mashiara: get kexec working
Dec 01 21:04:03 <Stskeeps> :P
Dec 01 21:04:20 <mece> well I'm off to bed. toodles.
Dec 01 21:05:40 <mashiara> stskeeps: I was thinking more in the line of the dualboot stuff someone did for N810
Dec 01 21:05:51 <timeless_mbp> Stskeeps: so, the map data is ...
Dec 01 21:05:53 <Stskeeps> mashiara: you didn't know we have bootmenu for n900?
Dec 01 21:06:19 <mashiara> stskeeps: I saw something like it when momentarily enablin rd-mode
Dec 01 21:06:32 <Stskeeps> mashiara: yeah, that one is broken. sec
Dec 01 21:06:36 <mashiara> stskeeps but how to tell it where to load the kernel from
Dec 01 21:07:22 <timeless_mbp> is anyone here familiar w/ South America?
Dec 01 21:07:59 <timeless_mbp> i need someone to try going through a map to decide which points in it are bad
Dec 01 21:07:59 <fuz_> even with bootmenu, we must have a single kernel for all OS booted from bootmenu, isn't it ?
Dec 01 21:07:59 <qwerty12_N900> timeless_mbp: Yeah, sure! That's that city in Europe, innit?
Dec 01 21:08:15 <Stskeeps> mashiara: kexec is broken in n900 kernels
Dec 01 21:08:16 <Stskeeps> :/
Dec 01 21:08:40 <Flandry> oh man
Dec 01 21:08:49 <Flandry> kernel modules :/
Dec 01 21:08:49 <copumpkin> anyone know of a libevent package for maemo?
Dec 01 21:09:28 <timeless_mbp> qwerty12_N900: http://www.webwizardry.net/~timeless/n900/clock/n900.html#391
Dec 01 21:09:30 <copumpkin> http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/diablo/free/libe/libevent/ looks like it?
Dec 01 21:09:36 <Flandry> anyone successfully building and installing kernel modules on fremantle?
Dec 01 21:09:56 <Flandry> and does it work from a deb with HAM
Dec 01 21:10:32 <mashiara> Flandry: my "custom" kernel works
Dec 01 21:10:56 <Flandry> well that's good
Dec 01 21:10:57 <mashiara> Flandry: basically it's the stock one but extra modules enabled and EXTRAVERSION set
Dec 01 21:11:11 <Flandry> but you had to reflash...
Dec 01 21:11:15 <mashiara> yes...
Dec 01 21:11:19 <Flandry> lol
Dec 01 21:11:36 <mashiara> you could try to just compile the joystick module
Dec 01 21:11:39 <mashiara> it might work
Dec 01 21:11:42 <qwerty12_N900> timeless_mbp: I can barely see the text :\
Dec 01 21:11:48 <mashiara> in theory all this *should* work
Dec 01 21:11:48 <Flandry> that's a wee step beyond HAM
Dec 01 21:11:48 <timeless_mbp> qwerty12_N900: zoom
Dec 01 21:12:11 <Flandry> oh? I really haven't done any kernel module fiddling
Dec 01 21:12:15 <copumpkin> hmm, running configure in my scratchbox environment seems to be doing the wrong thing
Dec 01 21:12:30 <copumpkin> oh wait, it's fine
Dec 01 21:12:54 <archebyte> this is a test from the N900
Dec 01 21:13:32 <mashiara> Flandry: if you have a list of modules you need (basically drill-down of where to find them in menuconfig) I can try to compile them
Dec 01 21:13:42 <mashiara> since I've been trying this for a week now...
Dec 01 21:14:00 <Flandry> i just need joydev i think
Dec 01 21:14:27 <Flandry> but if installing it is hairy it won't be useful to anyone else
Dec 01 21:14:29 <hardaker> What can do IRC on the 900?  pigin or does something else do it to?
Dec 01 21:14:30 <lcuk> anyone want a beer?
Dec 01 21:14:38 <GAN900> I hate the trail of open windows the Maemo 5 UI insists on leaving around.
Dec 01 21:14:42 <GAN900> XChat
Dec 01 21:14:50 <hardaker> ah
Dec 01 21:15:07 <archebyte> hello
Dec 01 21:15:08 <qwerty12_N900> lcuk: I have recycled water, if you're interested
Dec 01 21:15:20 <mashiara> flandry: if it can be made to compile and cleanly work with stock kernel then it can be packaged into a nice .deb
Dec 01 21:15:36 <lcuk> qwerty12_N900, ummm
Dec 01 21:15:42 <lcuk> everyone has recycled water
Dec 01 21:15:45 <Flandry> that would be awesome
Dec 01 21:16:06 <kynky> telepathy-idle does irc , maybe pidgin, some1 reccomeneded ssh into remote irssi
Dec 01 21:16:09 <Flandry> what has most of your time been spent on to get this working anyway?
Dec 01 21:17:00 <Flandry> if i'm going to go with an actual kernel module, it might be better to put the functionality into it
Dec 01 21:17:19 <Flandry> or at least the userspace portion
Dec 01 21:20:26 <mashiara> Flan
Dec 01 21:20:34 <mashiara> sorry...
Dec 01 21:20:52 <mashiara> Flandry: any other options than CONFIG_INPUT_JOYDEV, think fast
Dec 01 21:21:04 <mashiara> the compile will take a while...
Dec 01 21:21:11 <Flandry> i have no idea
Dec 01 21:21:20 <Flandry> i haven't compiled a kernel since gentoo
Dec 01 21:21:52 <fnordianslip> GAN900: have you found a way to get contacts out of the address book on your mac to your n900 yet?
Dec 01 21:21:54 <Flandry> what steps have you had to take beyond just getting the source?
Dec 01 21:22:46 <GeneralAntilles> fnordianslip, I don't maintain an addressbook on my Mac.
Dec 01 21:22:52 <GeneralAntilles> fnordianslip, however, vCards should serve.
Dec 01 21:22:59 <GeneralAntilles> Holy shit
Dec 01 21:23:14 <GeneralAntilles> There's an N900 advertisement on Xbox Live.
Dec 01 21:23:22 <Flandry> sweet
Dec 01 21:23:32 <fnordianslip> GAN900: ok.  i was hoping for a bulk transfer method.  no worries.
Dec 01 21:23:40 <w00t> <insert comment about still not having one here>
Dec 01 21:24:27 <Stskeeps> GeneralAntilles: scary
Dec 01 21:24:40 <GeneralAntilles> Holy shit
Dec 01 21:24:43 <GeneralAntilles> There's a theme to go with it.
Dec 01 21:25:05 <w00t> which is?
Dec 01 21:25:07 <Stskeeps> GeneralAntilles: they're finally taking maemo marketing seriously?
Dec 01 21:25:46 <timeless_mbp> GeneralAntilles: have you looked at my map? :)
Dec 01 21:25:56 <mashiara> Flandry: there is a wiki page http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Kernel_and_Debugging_Guide/Maemo_Kernel_Guide
Dec 01 21:25:57 <GeneralAntilles> timeless_mbp, nope.
Dec 01 21:26:00 <mashiara> though it's a bit dated
Dec 01 21:26:03 <qwerty12_N900> GeneralAntilles: Pics or it didn't happen. ;)
Dec 01 21:26:35 <GeneralAntilles> qwerty12_N900, one sec.
Dec 01 21:26:43 <mashiara> flandry: but the basic idea is get source and run make rx51_defconfig
Dec 01 21:27:02 <mashiara> flandry: then see the wiki page about fixing menuconfig on SB and then do your menuconfig
Dec 01 21:27:32 <Flandry> mashiara: ah, thanks. Is that wiki page blatantly wrong anywhere? Something that takes weeks to figure out? :D
Dec 01 21:27:39 <mashiara> then either start compiling or make patch of your config vs the defconfig and edit the debian/rules to patch the configuration when building package
Dec 01 21:28:10 <mashiara> Flandry: don't bother making separate SB target
Dec 01 21:28:16 <GeneralAntilles> Utterly bizarre
Dec 01 21:28:30 <GeneralAntilles> http://www.flickr.com/photos/generalantilles/
Dec 01 21:28:32 <GeneralAntilles> qwerty12_N900, ^
Dec 01 21:28:41 <mashiara> Flandry: and the EXTRAVERSION=-maemo2 is just wrong
Dec 01 21:28:57 <aSIMULAtor> i like your peanutbutter and banana sandwich photo
Dec 01 21:29:02 <Stskeeps> mashiara: that one wonders me too
Dec 01 21:29:06 <qwerty12_N900> Ooh, shiny
Dec 01 21:29:24 <mashiara> stskeeps: looking at the debian/rules it seems they used that for a long while
Dec 01 21:29:40 <Stskeeps> mashiara: yeah, but on device it's -omap1
Dec 01 21:29:40 <mashiara> stskeeps: and then decided to just use the -omap2 that is default in the Makefile
Dec 01 21:29:45 <Stskeeps> mashiara: mm
Dec 01 21:30:04 <GeneralAntilles> aSIMULAter, I need to buy some more bananas.
Dec 01 21:30:06 <mashiara> hmm,
Dec 01 21:30:13 <mashiara> let me check something...
Dec 01 21:30:32 <VDVsx> GeneralAntilles, they should add it to the Wii market too :D
Dec 01 21:30:41 <mashiara> yes, omap1 is default in Makefile
Dec 01 21:31:00 <GeneralAntilles> Well, the N900 theme is sadly uncreative.
Dec 01 21:31:02 <mashiara> must have mixed maemo2 and omap1 in my brain
Dec 01 21:31:02 <qwerty12_N900> VDVsx: They want real gamers, not 6 year-old kids
Dec 01 21:32:01 <GeneralAntilles> qwerty12_N900, hey!
Dec 01 21:32:09 <GeneralAntilles> You haven't played Super Mario Bros Wii yet, clearly.
Dec 01 21:32:10 <VDVsx> qwerty12_N900, well, but could be a good 'gesture' anyway :P
Dec 01 21:32:24 <Flandry> so what did you use?
Dec 01 21:33:10 <mashiara> flandry ? I used dpkg-buildpackage which does not set extraversion (ie uses -omap1 from the Makefile)
Dec 01 21:33:13 <qwerty12_N900> GeneralAntilles: Meh, looking to sell the Wii. Need something proper, whether that be a PS3 or an Xbox 360 :)
Dec 01 21:33:22 <Sargun_Screen> yay
Dec 01 21:33:35 <Flandry> oh, right
Dec 01 21:33:52 <kynky> only 1 choice then :)
Dec 01 21:34:11 <mashiara> Flandry: though in theory it should be possible to just say "make zImage modules"
Dec 01 21:34:27 <mashiara> and then copy the module over, in fact this is what I started with
Dec 01 21:35:01 <cehteh> someone should setup a kernel repository with proven kernels, documenting what feature each contains :P
Dec 01 21:35:01 <Flandry> that's not the source of your symbol mismatch then
Dec 01 21:35:17 <mashiara> but since I had symbol name issues I figured out I'm doing something wrong (even though it doesn't look like it) and started patching the config in debian/rules and using dpkg-buildpackage
Dec 01 21:36:01 <cehteh> well is it possible to build a vanilla 2.6.31 or so kernel for the n900 or is the nokia kernel suffiently patched to make it hard?
Dec 01 21:36:30 <kynky> kernel is gpl2
Dec 01 21:36:34 <yannj> cehteh : I think there is a vanilla firmware existing
Dec 01 21:36:51 <Flandry> so the debian package build _is_ right
Dec 01 21:36:57 <cehteh> gpl doesnt mean its easy to maintain
Dec 01 21:37:13 <cehteh> i know/heared that the kernel is not tainted
Dec 01 21:38:17 <cehteh> would be nice if nokia just makes an public git
Dec 01 21:38:28 <mashiara> flandry: I also build vanilla kernel without patching config and flashed that and everything worked, this was made to doublecheck my SB doesn't subtly mess things up
Dec 01 21:38:44 <Flandry> ok that's good to know
Dec 01 21:38:50 <cehteh> ah fine
Dec 01 21:39:07 <mashiara> flandry: as I said, I'm getting paranoid with these issues that in theory should not exist
Dec 01 21:39:55 <yannj> does someone know how to launch browser with a url , tryed " browser http://blahblahblah"  but doesnt work
Dec 01 21:40:14 <qwerty12_N900> browser --url=http://blahblahblah
Dec 01 21:40:33 <mashiara> at least on diablo it could be also done from dbus
Dec 01 21:41:04 <Flandry> yeah that works too
Dec 01 21:41:52 * qwerty12_N900 nods. it comes with a wrapper for that (if doing it from the shell): browser_dbuscmd.sh
Dec 01 21:42:03 <yannj> qwerty12_N900 : tks
Dec 01 21:42:49 <dieg> Today I sended back my N900 to Nokia Spain because the mic problem!
Dec 01 21:42:55 <mashiara> yannj: python code that worked in diablo: http://friendpaste.com/1Rv95pnPUaXm42uJOr4pKg
Dec 01 21:43:20 <mashiara> this opens a new window, so does not replace existing windows url if one was already open
Dec 01 21:44:03 <yannj> ok
Dec 01 21:44:29 <crashanddie> GeneralAntilles, GAN900: I'm trying to buy a refurbished mbp from the US store... I can't pay because I only have a UK credit card... Bloody wankers
Dec 01 21:45:11 <GeneralAntilles> crashanddie, online or in person?
Dec 01 21:45:26 <crashanddie> GeneralAntilles: they sell refurbished in B&M stores now?
Dec 01 21:45:26 <GeneralAntilles> and you might be able to do it over the phone.
Dec 01 21:45:32 <GeneralAntilles> Oh, right, that.
Dec 01 21:45:33 <GeneralAntilles> No.
Dec 01 21:45:54 <crashanddie> GeneralAntilles: nha, tried over the phone, they sent me to UK customer service to see if they could help me, but they can only do purchase and delivery to the UK
Dec 01 21:46:01 <crashanddie> (purchase from UK store, at UK prices)
Dec 01 21:46:12 <GeneralAntilles> Right
Dec 01 21:46:13 <GeneralAntilles> That sucks
Dec 01 21:46:15 <crashanddie> yup
Dec 01 21:46:25 <crashanddie> going to ask a friend if he wants to pay for me, I'll pay him in cash
Dec 01 21:46:42 <Xisdibik> B&M?
Dec 01 21:46:46 <crashanddie> brick and mortar
Dec 01 21:46:55 <Xisdibik> thats a US store?
Dec 01 21:47:00 <crashanddie> ...
Dec 01 21:47:03 <Xisdibik> ive never even heard of it before lol
Dec 01 21:47:14 <crashanddie> no, it's an expression to say it's a "real" store
Dec 01 21:47:23 <Xisdibik> must be a UK expression :P
Dec 01 21:47:27 <crashanddie> as in it was built with bricks and mortar
Dec 01 21:47:42 <Xisdibik> things in USA are rarely bricks and mortar these days :)
Dec 01 21:47:45 <crashanddie> Xisdibik: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brick_and_mortar
Dec 01 21:47:53 <Xisdibik> C&R would be more appropriate for a US store
Dec 01 21:47:57 <brian946> anyone else getting this: Failed to fetch https://downloads.maemo.nokia.com/fremantle/apps/./Packages  Could not resolve host: downloads.maemo.nokia.com (Could not contact DNS servers)
Dec 01 21:47:58 <Xisdibik> Concrete and Rebarb
Dec 01 21:48:17 <crashanddie> Xisdibik: it is a US term you idiot
Dec 01 21:48:30 <GeneralAntilles> Xisdibik, brick and mortar is common here.
Dec 01 21:48:34 <Xisdibik> ive never once in my life heard anyone say that
Dec 01 21:48:35 <GeneralAntilles> The term, that is.
Dec 01 21:48:42 <crashanddie> brian946: works for me
Dec 01 21:49:29 <crashanddie> brian946: however, there's a certificate issue
Dec 01 21:49:35 <brian946> crashanddie thx, i was afraid you would say that....doh
Dec 01 21:49:57 <crashanddie> brian946: apparently an akamai server picked up and provides an akamai certificate (with wrong subject)
Dec 01 21:50:06 <brian946> i can install from extras and extras-devel, but not the two main repos
Dec 01 21:50:26 <crashanddie> brian946: try http://downloads.maemo.nokia.com/fremantle/apps/Packages
Dec 01 21:50:33 <brian946> crashanddie: ok
Dec 01 21:50:43 <crashanddie> or http://downloads.maemo.nokia.com/fremantle/apps/./Packages rather
Dec 01 21:51:09 <brian946> crashanddie: just replace https with http?
Dec 01 21:51:18 <crashanddie> brian946: yeah, long shot though
Dec 01 21:52:35 <brian946> crashanddie: I get a 403 forbidden error now
Dec 01 21:52:45 <crashanddie> brian946: same as me
Dec 01 21:52:58 <crashanddie> brian946: that's what you usually get, considering that you need your auth key in order to access that repo
Dec 01 21:53:00 <crashanddie> IIRC
Dec 01 21:55:17 <brian946> crashanddie: hmmm...so you can access it normally...does that mean my auth key is "bad" or something?
Dec 01 21:56:20 <crashanddie> brian946: No, I get the same results as you, so basically, you don't have an issue!
Dec 01 21:57:33 <brian946> crashanddie:  ok...thank you very much
Dec 01 21:58:16 <brian946> crashanddie:  i wonder if i could work around it by changing to a different dns
Dec 01 21:58:28 <crashanddie> brian946: try opendns
Dec 01 22:02:38 <lcuk> crashanddie, craigslist
Dec 01 22:03:03 <aSIMULAtor> so i wonder how many phones ended up in people's hands fuckuked to begin with
Dec 01 22:03:47 <lcuk> i dunno aSIMULAtor but its troubling
Dec 01 22:03:57 <aSIMULAtor> yes and it's embarassing
Dec 01 22:04:07 <aSIMULAtor> especially since one of my friends ended up with a bricked phone
Dec 01 22:04:58 <kynky> nuknuk made him self noticed on tmo
Dec 01 22:05:52 <Stskeeps> still curious regarding if the reboot issue is SW or HW
Dec 01 22:05:53 <range> That's one way to say it.
Dec 01 22:06:05 <DangerMaus> Klowner, anything?   ohwell im dead tired cya 2marrow
Dec 01 22:06:21 <brian946> crashanddie:  do you happen to have opendns's ip handy?
Dec 01 22:08:12 <lcuk> Stskeeps, reboot could be many many things
Dec 01 22:08:24 <Stskeeps> lcuk: yeah but wd reboots are usually not good
Dec 01 22:08:31 <lcuk> no agreed
Dec 01 22:08:32 <timeless_mbp> flasher 3.5 is available from http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/maemo-dev-env-downloads.php
Dec 01 22:09:07 <Stskeeps> lcuk: i've been hard pressed to make my n8x0 wd reboot :P
Dec 01 22:09:08 * lcuk charges batteries and gets ready to push to autobuilder
Dec 01 22:09:21 <lcuk> id be hard pressed to make n810 reboot at all
Dec 01 22:09:43 <AakashPatel> YAY
Dec 01 22:09:46 <AakashPatel> got my n900
Dec 01 22:09:57 <lcuk> :D w00t!
Dec 01 22:10:02 <w00t> YES!
Dec 01 22:10:12 <AakashPatel> is there anyway to get my google contacts to hear?
Dec 01 22:10:15 <w00t> AakashPatel: what country?
Dec 01 22:10:16 <AakashPatel> sync em
Dec 01 22:10:21 <AakashPatel> w00t: US to the A
Dec 01 22:10:29 <w00t> oh, ok, irrelevant
Dec 01 22:10:34 <w00t> (:-p)
Dec 01 22:11:00 <AakashPatel> lol
Dec 01 22:11:14 <qwerty12_N900> w00t: Don't worry: There's tons of people from the UK who have one
Dec 01 22:11:21 <brian946> crashanddie: opendns fixed the problem!
Dec 01 22:11:35 <Stskeeps> there's a conspiracy to keep w00t from getting his n900
Dec 01 22:11:35 <Stskeeps> :P
Dec 01 22:11:50 <w00t> qwerty12_N900: I am going to murder you slowly and painfully
Dec 01 22:11:50 <qwerty12_N900> Led by Stskeeps
Dec 01 22:11:52 <lcuk> is w00t still waiting for his w00t momnt
Dec 01 22:12:08 * SpeedEvil wonders when his proper screen protector will arrive.
Dec 01 22:12:08 <lcuk> and if he does have it will anyone notice
Dec 01 22:12:08 <w00t> lcuk: yes :-/
Dec 01 22:12:08 <SpeedEvil> Currently I have cling-film taped on the display.
Dec 01 22:12:08 <lcuk> damn
Dec 01 22:12:10 <w00t> SpeedEvil: hahaha.
Dec 01 22:12:10 <fnordianslip> brian946: opendns fixed the repo problem?
Dec 01 22:12:12 <qwerty12_N900> w00t: Do I get fries with that?
Dec 01 22:12:12 <AakashPatel> any info on syncin?
Dec 01 22:12:21 <w00t> qwerty12_N900: do you get fried? yes
Dec 01 22:12:24 <lcuk> SpeedEvil, inventive
Dec 01 22:12:25 <AakashPatel> or only thing to do is download the contacts file and import it
Dec 01 22:12:46 <brian946> fnordianslip: i think it did...not 100%
Dec 01 22:12:58 <SpeedEvil> lcuk: It actually sticks OK - getting it wrinkle free is hard though
Dec 01 22:13:14 <w00t> I really do hope mine arrives this week, otherwise it's going to be wait until it's on O2 contract time
Dec 01 22:13:51 <fnordianslip> brian946  hmm.  i went to my ISPs upstream DNS instead of a dnsmasq on my LAN and that fixed it for me two
Dec 01 22:14:00 <fnordianslip> too, even
Dec 01 22:14:35 <brian946> fnordianslip: i can do an apt-get update...https://downloads.maemo.nokia.com/fremantle/apps/ and the other https repo work fine
Dec 01 22:15:02 <brian946> fnordianslip: awesome
Dec 01 22:15:11 <fnordianslip> brian946: yep, it was the downloads.maemo.nokia.com causing my problems
Dec 01 22:16:00 <brian946> fnordianslip: now apt-get complains about "No hash entry" for extras-devel
Dec 01 22:16:01 <fnordianslip> brian946: it worked ok over cellular but not on my home LAN.
Dec 01 22:16:14 <fnordianslip> brian946:  different problem
Dec 01 22:16:28 <brian946> fnordianslip: ok...i'm just trying over the lan too
Dec 01 22:17:14 <mashiara> flandry: any preference/suggestion on file transfer service ?
Dec 01 22:17:23 <fnordianslip> brian946: i mean the dns prob wasn't on the cell network.  extras-devel problem seems urelated
Dec 01 22:17:27 <mashiara> I have a joydev.ko that inserts to stock kernel for you
Dec 01 22:17:50 <mashiara> how to make a nice .deb is left as an exercise to the reader
Dec 01 22:17:55 <Flandry> wow that's wonderful
Dec 01 22:18:08 <Flandry> um tgz and email?
Dec 01 22:18:11 <brian946> fnordianslip: i agree
Dec 01 22:18:15 <Flandry> it's small i assume
Dec 01 22:18:33 <mashiara> yes
Dec 01 22:18:47 <mashiara> but I don't have any email accounts set up on the VM...
Dec 01 22:18:56 <Flandry> my server died last month so i'm rather limited in options
Dec 01 22:18:59 <Flandry> oh
Dec 01 22:19:03 <Flandry> webmail?
Dec 01 22:19:13 <mashiara> point...
Dec 01 22:19:17 * mashiara is too tired...
Dec 01 22:19:46 <mashiara> your email ?
Dec 01 22:20:01 <Flandry> davidfalkayn  gmail
Dec 01 22:20:14 <AakashPatel> ermmm
Dec 01 22:20:29 <AakashPatel> can i import a cvs contacts file
Dec 01 22:20:30 <AakashPatel> ??
Dec 01 22:20:55 <lardman> night all
Dec 01 22:21:12 <Flandry> bye lardman|gone
Dec 01 22:24:52 <AakashPatel> anyone got any info on contacts? :/
Dec 01 22:25:10 <Venomrush> got managed to get hold of service manual level 3 + 4
Dec 01 22:25:20 <Venomrush> getting the schematics sometime end of the week
Dec 01 22:25:28 <Venomrush> thanks to Moz
Dec 01 22:25:54 <mashiara> flandry: sent, also again with how I made it
Dec 01 22:26:51 <Flandry> received, and thank you very much
Dec 01 22:27:31 <Flandry> How would you like to be credited in the changelog?
Dec 01 22:27:41 <mashiara> this is exactly the same way I have tried building the nf_conntrack et co for the stock kernel, but they just won't work...
Dec 01 22:27:57 <Flandry> hmm that is weird
Dec 01 22:28:21 <Flandry> maybe start fresh and set it all up from scratch and you'll realize where it went wrong
Dec 01 22:28:29 <mashiara> been there, done that
Dec 01 22:28:40 <mashiara> many times...
Dec 01 22:29:05 <mashiara> from same build as the conntrack et co for example msdos.ko does work
Dec 01 22:29:17 <mashiara> so it's not something in the build process itself
Dec 01 22:29:26 <jebbajeb> wow, that's quite a bit of space for a device with only 256M:
Dec 01 22:29:27 <jebbajeb> 20.8M Dec  1 19:22 /usr/share/icons/hicolor/icon-theme.cache
Dec 01 22:29:46 <Flandry> yeah it is
Dec 01 22:29:58 <Stskeeps> jebbajeb: but compared to the amount of performance improvement..
Dec 01 22:30:08 <Flandry> it's also a high-volume bit of data
Dec 01 22:30:17 <Flandry> ^
Dec 01 22:30:29 <mashiara> anyways, now I go to sleep. good night everyone
Dec 01 22:30:32 <AakashPatel> anyone D:
Dec 01 22:30:37 <Flandry> goodnight
Dec 01 22:31:11 <jebbajeb> Stskeeps: just trying to track down fatness as I'm back at 99% full on /  ;)    (even after reboot....)
Dec 01 22:32:10 <Stskeeps> ah :P
Dec 01 22:34:26 <jebbajeb> would be nice if /home/user was encrypted.  I mean if you lose your fone, you are pretty hosed.
Dec 01 22:35:29 <Stskeeps> jebbajeb: yeah but you would need to encrypt swap, /home and /opt too ..
Dec 01 22:35:40 <Stskeeps> and then performance starts going downhill
Dec 01 22:35:58 <SpeedEvil> Stskeeps: doubtful.
Dec 01 22:36:22 <Stskeeps> SpeedEvil: attack vector: your own kernel booting from ext sd.
Dec 01 22:36:24 <SpeedEvil> Stskeeps: I would guess hte encryption speed at >10M/s - even assuming there is no encryption hardware
Dec 01 22:36:49 <SpeedEvil> meh - no crypto modules for kernel
Dec 01 22:37:25 <AakashPatel> Does nokia pc suite support osx?
Dec 01 22:37:32 <GeneralAntilles> Actually, OMAP3 should be able to accelerate crypto.
Dec 01 22:37:42 <GeneralAntilles> AakashPatel, ha.
Dec 01 22:37:47 <GeneralAntilles> VMWare. ;)
Dec 01 22:37:53 <jebbajeb> Stskeeps: i was thinking something along the lines of LUKS, just for user data, not for applications
Dec 01 22:38:12 <AakashPatel> GeneralAntilles: Lol is there a way to sync/import my google contacts to this thing?
Dec 01 22:38:15 <luke-jr> GeneralAntilles: IIRC, you were anti-MIPS to some degree... what makes ARM better than MIPS? from what I've seen, ARM uses 4x the power than MIPS does in practice
Dec 01 22:38:17 <jebbajeb> like just /home/user/MyDocs  (not swap nor /opt)
Dec 01 22:38:34 <SpeedEvil> Well -  time dd if=/dev/zero bs=1024 count=102400 |md5sum -
Dec 01 22:38:43 <SpeedEvil> completes in 3s - which is 30 meg a second
Dec 01 22:38:51 <jebbajeb> *  "sync"
Dec 01 22:38:58 <SpeedEvil> And aes should be same order of magnitude as md5
Dec 01 22:39:01 <AakashPatel> jebbajeb: lol what
Dec 01 22:39:05 <Venomrush> hmm i love service manuals
Dec 01 22:39:11 <Venomrush> those troubleshooting flows really help
Dec 01 22:39:19 <GeneralAntilles> luke-jr, it's also got significantly better performance.
Dec 01 22:39:25 <GeneralAntilles> and more support from the big mobile players.
Dec 01 22:39:25 <jebbajeb> AakashPatel:   ?
Dec 01 22:39:35 <AakashPatel> you said somethin about sync
Dec 01 22:39:38 <AakashPatel> oh
Dec 01 22:39:40 <luke-jr> GeneralAntilles: i c
Dec 01 22:39:41 <AakashPatel> you werent talkin to me
Dec 01 22:39:43 <AakashPatel> sorry
Dec 01 22:39:57 <GeneralAntilles> luke-jr, they're both better than x86, but given a choice between MIPS and ARM I'd definitely go with ARM.
Dec 01 22:39:58 <jebbajeb> ah,   do dd  then the sync... the sync will take longer me supposes
Dec 01 22:40:15 <GeneralAntilles> It's not that I'm /anti/-MIPS, it's just wouldn't be my architecture of choice.
Dec 01 22:41:50 <luke-jr> GeneralAntilles: well, I'm mainly thinking for a router at the moment, and OpenRD-Client uses 20 W vs RouterBoard at 3-5 W
Dec 01 22:41:54 <jebbajeb> if one just does a `reboot` or `shutdown now -r` instead of doing the poweroff in the menu, is it ok/clean?
Dec 01 22:42:52 <tbf> luke-jr: quite wasteful
Dec 01 22:43:31 <GeneralAntilles> luke-jr, don't have any real experience with non-brick'n'mortar network hardware.
Dec 01 22:43:49 <SpeedEvil> Ok. Kernel can do AES - but cryptoloop doesn't seem to be there
Dec 01 22:44:15 <jebbajeb> SpeedEvil: what about things like cryptsetup  / LUKS?
Dec 01 22:44:35 <yannj__> I am tring to read a rtsp flow, I manage to get it from gst-launch with uridecodebin, but when trying with the link in maemo browser (the link is on a webpage) it launches mediaplayer and fails, is there a way to launch mediaplayer directly with the URI
Dec 01 22:44:53 <jebbajeb> SpeedEvil: i thought cryptoloop was long ago deprecated
Dec 01 22:44:54 <tbf> luke-jr: unless i am totally off the n900 is somewhere around 0.5..4W depending on load (well, or i am just too tired)
Dec 01 22:46:52 <luke-jr> tbf: N900 is also far more expensive than I'm buying for a router ;)
Dec 01 22:46:54 <VDVsx> grrr extras-devel is broken again :(
Dec 01 22:46:55 <luke-jr> and lacks Ethernet
Dec 01 22:47:16 <jebbajeb> VDVsx: how? I'm using it ok
Dec 01 22:47:22 <Stskeeps> VDVsx: beat someone?
Dec 01 22:47:43 <tbf> luke-jr: well, therefore it has wlan, 3g, bluetooth
Dec 01 22:47:52 <SpeedEvil> jebbajeb: meh
Dec 01 22:48:00 <tbf> luke-jr: well, but i am quite clueless when it comes to hardware
Dec 01 22:48:23 <tbf> luke-jr: regularly wonder if should it consider offensive that i have to flash my n900 myself :-D
Dec 01 22:48:26 <VDVsx> jeanjean, really ? I'm getting the "hash bla bla" error
Dec 01 22:48:35 <VDVsx> ups
Dec 01 22:48:40 <VDVsx> jebbajeb,
Dec 01 22:48:44 <VDVsx> ^
Dec 01 22:48:57 <tbf> luke-jr: just wanted to point out that ARM isn't wasteful by definition
Dec 01 22:49:16 <tbf> maybe.
Dec 01 22:50:10 <luke-jr> tbf: IMO, devices should come blank and require flashing :)
Dec 01 22:52:03 <lcuk> luke-jr, devices should come up with a menu on install, "maemo symbian, other"
Dec 01 22:52:13 <lcuk> ^ m
Dec 01 22:52:19 <lcuk> ^ , even
Dec 01 22:52:19 <lcuk> ffs
Dec 01 22:52:40 <microlith> luke-jr: people like to actually use their devices
Dec 01 22:52:40 <AakashPatel> lawl i got gmail sycing with active sync with my phone
Dec 01 22:52:55 <luke-jr> actually, better yet
Dec 01 22:53:02 <VDVsx> lcuk, maemo, symbian, liqbase, canola, other :D
Dec 01 22:53:14 <lcuk> ahem
Dec 01 22:53:15 <luke-jr> Vendor can produce a quality piece of hardware, then hold a contest for software
Dec 01 22:53:20 <tbf> luke-jr: didn't talk as customer, talked as developer who has to flash one or two times a week ;-)
Dec 01 22:53:22 <luke-jr> winner gets the software development budget
Dec 01 22:53:23 <luke-jr> :)
Dec 01 22:53:34 <lcuk> liqos and canolos
Dec 01 22:53:48 <lcuk> DOS!!
Dec 01 22:53:57 <jaem> ha
Dec 01 22:54:18 <lcuk> luke-jr, errr isnt it a bit late
Dec 01 22:54:25 <lcuk> after the stuff has been made
Dec 01 22:55:00 <SpeedEvil> luke-jr: My last phone did
Dec 01 22:55:00 <SpeedEvil> luke-jr: (kernel only, which panicked due to no FS)
Dec 01 22:56:31 * lcuk throws gimp across the room
Dec 01 23:00:50 <Klowner> I got it! yaaaaaaay
Dec 01 23:01:01 <Shapeshifter> Does someone know a text-to-speech lib that is already ported to ARM and available in the repos?
Dec 01 23:01:37 <Mousey> HAIL ERIS!
Dec 01 23:01:38 <SpeedEvil> flite?
Dec 01 23:01:43 <SpeedEvil> ->shap
Dec 01 23:02:03 <fnordianslippers> indeed
Dec 01 23:02:09 <Mousey> flite and espeak, ne?
Dec 01 23:02:32 <Mousey> i drove a fnord for a while.. had to sell it. the windows kept breaking
Dec 01 23:02:42 <Mousey> ...out into song!
Dec 01 23:02:58 <Shapeshifter> SpeedEvil, Mousey, thanks
Dec 01 23:03:35 <fnordianslippers> i had a pc for a bit and the windows kept breaking. coincidence?
Dec 01 23:03:50 <Mousey> i think about knots
Dec 01 23:04:33 <fnordianslippers> i think about the game, and i don't even play it
Dec 01 23:04:34 * Mousey goes back to not eating hot dogs
Dec 01 23:04:48 <Mousey> ...well the buns, anyway
Dec 01 23:05:43 <fnordianslippers> they're ok if you have 5
Dec 01 23:06:14 <fnordianslippers> probably
Dec 01 23:09:16 * fnordianslippers installs anarchism on his n900
Dec 01 23:27:08 <Shapeshifter> mh. I'm bored with the app I'm coding. I don't think anyone will use it, including myself.
Dec 01 23:27:13 <Shapeshifter> Any suggestions what to code?
Dec 01 23:27:28 <luke-jr> Shapeshifter: you can help write an IRC bot
Dec 01 23:27:30 * SpeedEvil ponders.
Dec 01 23:27:42 <luke-jr> http://gitorious.org/geneticchat/
Dec 01 23:27:42 <SpeedEvil> Shapeshifter: A quassel port?
Dec 01 23:27:50 <Shapeshifter> luke-jr: why? supybot is good enough.
Dec 01 23:27:56 <SpeedEvil> with a n900 frontend?
Dec 01 23:28:01 <luke-jr> Shapeshifter: Supybot is utterly void of any intelligence
Dec 01 23:28:13 <Firebird> you could help test/add ogles2/0 to libsdl1.3 for me
Dec 01 23:28:42 <mikhas> ShadowJK, go to t.m.o and search for app requests?
Dec 01 23:28:53 <SpeedEvil> Shapeshifter: way to encrypt /home ?
Dec 01 23:29:06 <lcuk> Shapeshifter, what are you building atm
Dec 01 23:29:42 <Shapeshifter> mhh, not interested. Oh, I know something. Maybe a tool and service to easily set up theft-protection, i.e. sending of GPS coordinates by SMS/internet/anything available + sending pictures made with the front cam.
Dec 01 23:30:01 <Shapeshifter> lcuk: a calendar app. It's quite nifty I think, but only for very specific usage patterns.
Dec 01 23:30:12 <lcuk> pics?
Dec 01 23:30:22 <luke-jr> Shapeshifter: that's an idea
Dec 01 23:30:25 <Firebird> I think by the time the GPS locks the thief would have taken the battery out
Dec 01 23:30:27 <lcuk> and would you know at the maemo long weekend my calendar is gettin looked at
Dec 01 23:30:33 <GeneralAntilles> Oh, rcadden.
Dec 01 23:30:51 <luke-jr> Shapeshifter: make sure it uses minimum bandwidth normally. like, one TCP connection when it boots, and pings/checks every hour with 1 byte
Dec 01 23:31:14 <luke-jr> Firebird: thiefs are mostly stupid
Dec 01 23:31:26 * hardaker hates the fact that the calendar app can't do a simple "first monday of the month" repeat.  sigh.
Dec 01 23:31:27 <lcuk> no, criminals are refined
Dec 01 23:31:35 <luke-jr> lcuk: the elite few
Dec 01 23:31:39 <lcuk> they will steal a device with the single intention of building gentoo linux on them
Dec 01 23:31:56 <luke-jr> ...
Dec 01 23:31:56 <lcuk> its not worth stealing if its not open
Dec 01 23:32:15 <luke-jr> Firebird: be sure to demand NOLO source from Nokia to prevent flashing over the security ;)
Dec 01 23:32:50 <Shapeshifter> lcuk: http://stuff.moritzg.ch/maemopyqal.png I originally started writing it for my laptop, not maemo, that's why it's not hildonized yet. I'm currently optimizing it as an option to suit maemo.
Dec 01 23:32:56 <luke-jr> if you're really crafty, you can have your replacement NOLO emulate a successful flash while infecting the new image...
Dec 01 23:33:03 <Shapeshifter> the features aren't apparent, but it does things like:
Dec 01 23:34:07 <lcuk> looks like time reporting tool, was thursday your busy day?
Dec 01 23:34:47 <Shapeshifter> 1. the checker style thing in the top left; if you click-hover the mouse the week below changes dynamically. very easy to browse a whole year within seconds. 2. day with events are highlighted. 3. optional zoom function on the "microcal" thingy in the top left. tries to understand any input and translates it. e.g. you enter 900 1120 something and it will reformat to 09:00 11:20 - something. supports recurring events, inifite, counting up ...
Dec 01 23:34:53 <Shapeshifter> ... (bdays?), or counting down (deadlines?)
Dec 01 23:35:31 <joerg_rw> Mediaplayer doesn't sense headset holdbutton on N900?
Dec 01 23:35:51 <lcuk> cool
Dec 01 23:35:53 <Shapeshifter> lcuk: nah in the end every day has the same amount of space. that just because it's a bit cramped on maemo. as I said I'm working on it. But I got a bit bored. I wouldn't even use it myself. I think. The point is that I don't really get the point of those calendars like google calendar where you have huuge bars that stretch over the hours and especially on the n900 you have to scroll around the screen to see all events
Dec 01 23:36:19 <luke-jr> Shapeshifter: looks too difficult to touch accurately
Dec 01 23:36:36 <PolarFox> I think I have to order an expert to install my Maemo development enviroment :D
Dec 01 23:36:44 <luke-jr> Shapeshifter: I have an interesting calendar "app"
Dec 01 23:36:47 <Shapeshifter> luke-jr: yep. that's why I implemented zooming on the widget at the top left. but I clearly made it with the desktop in mind. I imagine it is impossible to use on maemo.
Dec 01 23:36:48 <PolarFox> I've wasted like 10 hours and I still cannot get ANYTHING to run :)
Dec 01 23:37:00 <lcuk> Shapeshifter, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AeVPddxHW84 30 second overview
Dec 01 23:37:04 <Flandry> use a virtual machine image
Dec 01 23:37:10 <mikhas> and the UI installer
Dec 01 23:37:13 <lcuk> PolarFox, :( i feel your pain
Dec 01 23:37:29 <lcuk> once i discovered the GUI installer on a clean ubuntu tho i was happy
Dec 01 23:38:05 <Shapeshifter> lcuk: that's nice :) can it sync with google? or import .ics?
Dec 01 23:38:05 <tbf> Shapeshifter: already was going to ask if you'll ship a pair of glasses with that app :-D
Dec 01 23:38:16 <tbf> but not hildonized - ok
Dec 01 23:38:20 <lcuk> google and ics dont support the human touch
Dec 01 23:38:43 <Shapeshifter> lcuk: well, for those events they could just be pasted on screen. just for "importing"
Dec 01 23:38:46 <Shapeshifter> not syncing back.
Dec 01 23:38:47 <lcuk> it will howevereventually sync with the calendar on my kitchen wall
Dec 01 23:38:54 <Shapeshifter> ;)
Dec 01 23:39:09 <lcuk> pasted on screen?
Dec 01 23:39:25 <joerg_rw> Nybody share a pointer or advice where to get xchat maemo5 please
Dec 01 23:39:35 <lcuk> extras-devel
Dec 01 23:39:40 <Shapeshifter> but, importing events from google/caldav would be quite useful. Well, I mean just put them there, somewhere in the area where you can also handwrite on
Dec 01 23:39:52 <Shapeshifter> lcuk: do you have released the source?
Dec 01 23:39:55 <lcuk> yeah
Dec 01 23:40:04 <lcuk> it will be totally standalone though in about 2 hours
Dec 01 23:40:10 <lcuk> its embedded in playground atm
Dec 01 23:40:16 <lcuk> im just pulling it out as we speak
Dec 01 23:40:23 <lcuk> so people can just install the calendar
Dec 01 23:40:26 <joerg_rw> Lcuk I seem to have extrasfdevel
Dec 01 23:40:37 <joerg_rw> Can't find it
Dec 01 23:40:50 <Shapeshifter> lcuk: ah okay.
Dec 01 23:41:00 <PolarFox> lcuk: maybe I should install jaunty on a virtualbox machine and try out the GUI installer..
Dec 01 23:41:09 <Shapeshifter> lcuk: what is it written in, and what toolkit?
Dec 01 23:41:20 <lcuk> PolarFox, if you are making a vm just grab the entire vm image
Dec 01 23:41:35 <lcuk> Shapeshifter, its in c, and is totally ground up code
Dec 01 23:41:46 <lcuk> no existing toolkit was used
Dec 01 23:41:46 <Shapeshifter> ohh okay
Dec 01 23:41:51 <PolarFox> lcuk: It's a huge download .. and with my luck, it's already old :)
Dec 01 23:41:58 <mikhas> it isnt
Dec 01 23:42:20 <lcuk> Shapeshifter, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hGUKICDeok the rendering engine portion and a quick run through of some bits
Dec 01 23:42:22 <PolarFox> lcuk: I'm going VM since my tries with 64bit OS ended with pain.. :)
Dec 01 23:42:53 <lcuk> PolarFox, i also feel your pain
Dec 01 23:43:07 <luke-jr> Shapeshifter: http://luke.dashjr.org/programs/calendar/demo.svg
Dec 01 23:43:10 <joerg_rw> Anyway, youtube plays fine on N900
Dec 01 23:43:27 <luke-jr> Shapeshifter: disclaimer: requires a half decent SVG viewer
Dec 01 23:43:48 <lcuk> luke-jr, that looks like other calendaring apps ive written in the past
Dec 01 23:43:53 <tbf> can someone translate "mick out of customers" please?
Dec 01 23:44:03 <tbf> i hate it getting called words in slang
Dec 01 23:44:18 <mavhc> as in take the mick?
Dec 01 23:44:52 <luke-jr> lcuk: seriously? I wrote it cuz I couldn't find anything to do it
Dec 01 23:44:52 <lcuk> luke-jr, why does someone miss hygiene on thursday and friday
Dec 01 23:45:05 <PolarFox> Well I'm going to sleep.. maybe fourth night with this "Kit" will solve the problem.
Dec 01 23:45:27 <lcuk> luke-jr, could drag and edit and adjust things as required
Dec 01 23:45:36 <Shapeshifter> lcuk: that is brilliant
Dec 01 23:45:50 <fnordianslippers> tbf: it's polite for "piss"
Dec 01 23:45:54 <PolarFox> BTW. Why is that image so huuuge? :)
Dec 01 23:45:54 * lcuk nods :)
Dec 01 23:46:01 <luke-jr> lcuk: how about non-rectagular polygons? ;)
Dec 01 23:46:11 <luke-jr> PolarFox: what image?
Dec 01 23:46:14 <Shapeshifter> lcuk: what kind of accent is that btw?
Dec 01 23:46:20 <lcuk> mancunian
Dec 01 23:46:25 <lcuk> luke-jr, ahh you see
Dec 01 23:46:33 <lcuk> thats multiple individual columns
Dec 01 23:46:36 <Shapeshifter> I see.
Dec 01 23:46:39 <PolarFox> luke-jr: that ESBox VM image
Dec 01 23:46:42 <lcuk> with a bit of trickery as to which border to show
Dec 01 23:47:09 <lcuk> i even had the autosizing algorithm for the text within
Dec 01 23:47:21 <lcuk> didnt go downwards tho
Dec 01 23:47:25 <PolarFox> maemovmware or something like that
Dec 01 23:47:32 <luke-jr> lcuk: should have published it? :p
Dec 01 23:47:46 <lcuk> part of a different life
Dec 01 23:48:08 <lcuk> i have to reimplement anything i do
Dec 01 23:48:25 <lcuk> (closed source vb project a few years ago for old job)
Dec 01 23:48:37 <tbf> fnordianslippers: awesome. calling apple users "fans" is "pissing them"
Dec 01 23:48:43 <tbf> awesome guys
Dec 01 23:49:39 <lcuk> luke-jr, i have all the test projects that i did for the pieces, holdon lemme see if i can find
Dec 01 23:50:02 <luke-jr> lcuk: the difficult part remaining would be to make the text flow within the polygon
Dec 01 23:50:12 <luke-jr> rather than treating the bounding rectangle
Dec 01 23:50:28 <lcuk> take widest contigious piece
Dec 01 23:50:34 <lcuk> http://liqbase.net/font_scale_rendering_area.png
Dec 01 23:51:11 <fnordianslippers> tbf: not quite. taking the piss means to make fun of them
Dec 01 23:51:28 <spaghetty> bye
Dec 01 23:51:31 <luke-jr> lcuk: that doesn't do it
Dec 01 23:51:34 <lcuk> (the content is results of a codegen)
Dec 01 23:51:46 <luke-jr> lcuk: all of those are rectangles
Dec 01 23:52:00 <lcuk> take the u shaped "lunch" one
Dec 01 23:52:37 <luke-jr> actually, for "Lunch", the ideal would be just making sure the "L" and "h" are in the tall regions ;)
Dec 01 23:52:41 <luke-jr> but it's a unique case
Dec 01 23:52:46 <lcuk> you have an island made up from 3 columns
Dec 01 23:53:11 <lcuk> the text has to realistically sit i nthe lower half
Dec 01 23:53:30 <lcuk> but thats an optimization on hte rendering layer
Dec 01 23:53:42 <luke-jr> lcuk: for example, take Breakfast ;)
Dec 01 23:53:45 <lcuk> cos you can happily say lunch in each column
Dec 01 23:53:59 <lcuk> wlel that looks silly
Dec 01 23:54:20 <luke-jr> XD
Dec 01 23:54:26 <lcuk> lol
Dec 01 23:54:28 <luke-jr> I like to sleep in when I can
Dec 01 23:54:47 <lcuk> if its something like that, perhaps a background layer with shaded region would be better
Dec 01 23:55:10 <lcuk> i do like the ZZzs
Dec 01 23:55:34 <lcuk> could get nice effect just using a tiled ttexture image
Dec 01 23:55:37 <luke-jr> those only work in Inkscape and Firefox <.<
Dec 01 23:55:42 <lcuk> infact, thats how you could do all those standard ones
Dec 01 23:55:56 <lcuk> for sleep and breakfast and everything
Dec 01 23:56:27 <luke-jr> Prep Food could use line-splitting :p
Dec 01 23:56:36 <lcuk> why does C not have any lunch on thursday
Dec 01 23:57:22 <luke-jr> lcuk: the public SVG is filtered for privacy :)
Dec 01 23:57:56 <lcuk> top secret thursday?
Dec 01 23:57:56 <luke-jr> haha
Dec 01 23:57:56 <luke-jr> and Wednesday
Dec 01 23:58:05 <luke-jr> I am L
Dec 01 23:58:17 <lcuk> no shit!
Dec 01 23:58:19 <lcuk> :D
Dec 01 23:58:34 <lcuk> are these actual times you do things or expected
Dec 01 23:58:44 <luke-jr> lcuk: expected
Dec 01 23:59:00 <lcuk> thats quite cool overal
Dec 02 00:00:55 <luke-jr> lcuk: your dragging thing would be cooler tho ;)
Dec 02 00:01:04 <luke-jr> mine is just a Perl script to convert event files into SVG
Dec 02 00:01:15 <lcuk> yeah
Dec 02 00:01:21 <luke-jr> and not very efficient with the algorithm
Dec 02 00:01:29 <lcuk> at the barcamps ive been to recently, the trackshave been entered into a big grid
Dec 02 00:01:32 <lcuk> they use pen and paper!
Dec 02 00:01:34 <luke-jr> it literally plots events per minute and traces the shapes
Dec 02 00:01:40 <lcuk> yikes
Dec 02 00:01:50 <lcuk> that dataset is entirely possible to run in realtime
Dec 02 00:01:55 <lcuk> its not that complex
Dec 02 00:01:57 <luke-jr> well, actually, slightly different from that...
Dec 02 00:02:12 <luke-jr> it traces the shapes, and for each "pixel" it calls a function to get the value
Dec 02 00:02:25 <luke-jr> at that time, the function looks at all the events to see which match it ;)
Dec 02 00:02:58 <lcuk> id just grad the stuff from the database in ascending order and start from there
Dec 02 00:03:34 <lcuk> i need to go beat the shit out of new package, bbiab
Dec 02 00:06:12 <toggles_w> so i was thinking about starting a conversation here about n900's and bluetooh keyboards..
Dec 02 00:09:12 <Arkenoi> why does "mirror" application show such a distorted noisy picture?
Dec 02 00:11:37 <SpeedEvil> Arkenoi: camera is shit
Dec 02 00:12:53 <simula> i haven't done a great deal with the camera, but it doesn't seem so bad to me
Dec 02 00:13:05 <Arkenoi> *that* shit? looks like it is almost non-working
Dec 02 00:13:15 <SpeedEvil> Do yuou have pre-release hardware?
Dec 02 00:13:26 <simula> i haven't used the mirror app though
Dec 02 00:13:32 <simula> nawp, release hardware
Dec 02 00:13:36 <DocScrutinizer> And I thought the classic mirror app is setting screen to black XD
Dec 02 00:13:44 <SpeedEvil> ->ark
Dec 02 00:14:14 <Docscrutinizer51> Grr pidgin
Dec 02 00:15:22 <Docscrutinizer51> Omg at least better name now
Dec 02 00:16:51 <Arkenoi> speedevil, nope, it is "not for sale", but i have "n900" logo on the device
Dec 02 00:17:08 <Arkenoi> so i guess it is the final version
Dec 02 00:17:43 <AakashPatel> is tehre video chatting on google talk?
Dec 02 00:19:28 <tbf> AakashPatel: on the n900? disabled for too many serious bugs, but the rtcom staff is working hard on getting it running
Dec 02 00:20:05 <Arkenoi> (tried to capture an screenshot of mirror app, but no luck for obvious reason)
Dec 02 00:24:01 <mikhas> AakashPatel, did you try a skype video chat?
Dec 02 00:24:18 <Venomrush> Nokia N900 Stress Test http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IA11mScNBLk
Dec 02 00:24:30 <Venomrush> more like Scratch Test
Dec 02 00:24:38 <AakashPatel> :0
Dec 02 00:24:49 <AakashPatel> mikhas: the default skype integration has video chat?
Dec 02 00:24:53 <Venomrush> apparently it scratches pretty easy
Dec 02 00:25:56 <mikhas> AakashPatel, cant say. but it came up on planet.maemo.org some time ago. Havent tried myself yet =)
Dec 02 00:26:12 <AakashPatel> ill try it in a few mins lol
Dec 02 00:28:21 <mikhas> Venomrush, that's sick
Dec 02 00:28:51 <mikhas> I couldnt watch to the end
Dec 02 00:28:56 <luke-jr> nice, someone I know just turned down a job because they use glib :)
Dec 02 00:29:09 <simula> heh
Dec 02 00:31:55 <Shapeshifter> mhh, I was thinking about writing a videocalling solution. Am I bound to fail?
Dec 02 00:32:12 <Shapeshifter> a really simple one. Just because I'm sick of skype and sip is broken anyway.
Dec 02 00:32:21 <Shapeshifter> just for me and my girlfriend if it has to be.
Dec 02 00:32:37 <luke-jr> why not just use XMPP w/ the default stuff?
Dec 02 00:32:51 <Shapeshifter> mh xmpp does videocalling? huh. how did I miss that.
Dec 02 00:32:57 <Shapeshifter> googling.
Dec 02 00:33:05 <luke-jr> ...
Dec 02 00:34:55 <Arkenoi> what's wrong with sip?
Dec 02 00:35:20 <SpeedEvil> Shapeshifter: with vibrator support?
Dec 02 00:35:22 <Shapeshifter> Arkenoi: it's incredibly broken, and all clients suck.
Dec 02 00:35:23 <Arkenoi> Venomrush, he talks too much ;-)
Dec 02 00:35:26 <Shapeshifter> SpeedEvil: hah.
Dec 02 00:35:46 <greenfly> screen -dr
Dec 02 00:35:48 * Arkenoi is quite satisified with sip. never tried video, though
Dec 02 00:35:52 <greenfly> heh
Dec 02 00:36:06 <Shapeshifter> Arkenoi: ah. well audio ain't that bad with sip.
Dec 02 00:36:06 <tbf> SpeedEvil: signup at facebook and get a date :-D :-p
Dec 02 00:36:11 <luke-jr> My N810 works with SIP if I'm on the LAN, but not if it has to go through NAT
Dec 02 00:36:23 <luke-jr> and unfortunately, my PBX is Asterisk whcih doesn't support IPv6
Dec 02 00:37:40 <luke-jr> SIP would probably work fine if people weren't screwing with packetflow
Dec 02 00:38:18 <ccooke> it all depends on which SIP transport you use...
Dec 02 00:38:23 <luke-jr> ?
Dec 02 00:38:36 <luke-jr> you mean other than RTP?
Dec 02 00:38:42 <ccooke> luke-jr: sip can use tcp or udp transports
Dec 02 00:38:44 <luke-jr> oh
Dec 02 00:38:56 <ccooke> and a couple of different kinds of tunnelling
Dec 02 00:39:05 <luke-jr> I'm not sure TCP vs UDP is the problem at all
Dec 02 00:39:06 <ccooke> udp is good for nat traversal
Dec 02 00:39:11 <luke-jr> tunnelling is just lame
Dec 02 00:39:19 <luke-jr> ...
Dec 02 00:39:27 <luke-jr> TCP is far better than UDP for getting by NATs
Dec 02 00:39:37 <AakashPatel> how do you get into skype on the device??
Dec 02 00:39:43 <AakashPatel> i logged in through settings
Dec 02 00:39:44 <luke-jr> AakashPatel: Skype sucks.
Dec 02 00:40:07 <AakashPatel> i want video chat :(
Dec 02 00:40:09 <ccooke> Actually, no. UDP with a central server or predefined endpoints is vastly superior to TCP for nat traversal.
Dec 02 00:40:14 <luke-jr> AakashPatel: use XMPP like a real man
Dec 02 00:40:18 <AakashPatel> Lol
Dec 02 00:40:23 <AakashPatel> I use Google Talk usually
Dec 02 00:40:23 <Arkenoi> will there ever be SRTP?
Dec 02 00:40:35 <AakashPatel> luke-jr: Just wanted to try out the video chatting on it
Dec 02 00:40:48 <luke-jr> AakashPatel: Google Talk should work fine with Nxx0
Dec 02 00:40:53 <Robot101> Shapeshifter: the Telepathy framework on the device supports XMPP (and Google Video) video calls
Dec 02 00:41:15 <AakashPatel> Hmmm
Dec 02 00:41:21 <Shapeshifter> Robot101: nice.
Dec 02 00:41:26 <Robot101> Arkenoi: we're working on SRTP in the stack atm
Dec 02 00:41:26 <AakashPatel> So...
Dec 02 00:41:30 <AakashPatel> how do i do it lol
Dec 02 00:42:01 <luke-jr> AakashPatel: click the phone icon before you dial
Dec 02 00:42:09 <luke-jr> it enables the camera
Dec 02 00:42:23 <luke-jr> at least that's how it was on Maemo 4
Dec 02 00:42:58 <Robot101> Arkenoi: but it's not likely to be supported officially - it might be possible for us to put some of it on maemo.org for keen people to update :)
Dec 02 00:43:49 <AakashPatel> hmm it is only if you have a skype nubmer?
Dec 02 00:43:56 * AakashPatel isnt familar with skype anyways
Dec 02 00:44:44 <Arkenoi> robot101: that would be great! first "crypto phone out of the box". well, almost that ;-)
Dec 02 00:44:49 <mikhas> AakashPatel, you can register a test account and get some minutes for free
Dec 02 00:45:13 <AakashPatel> okay
Dec 02 00:46:33 <Shapeshifter> luke-jr: can you recommend an XMPP client that does video for linux?
Dec 02 00:46:51 <luke-jr> Shapeshifter: no.
Dec 02 00:46:51 <Robot101> Shapeshifter: empathy, using the same telepathy framework
Dec 02 00:46:58 <luke-jr> Shapeshifter: Psi supposedly supports it, but requires gstreamer :/
Dec 02 00:47:06 <Shapeshifter> Robot101: I don't like empathy.
Dec 02 00:47:06 <luke-jr> and I refuse to use g*
Dec 02 00:47:17 <Robot101> luke-jr: maemo uses quite a lot of it... :P
Dec 02 00:47:24 <luke-jr> Robot101: I don't use Maemo
Dec 02 00:48:05 <Robot101> sorry, rash assumption of me, its not like we're in #maemo or anything :P
Dec 02 00:48:07 <mikhas> empathy is a great IM client anway, no reasons to not have it on your desktop =p
Dec 02 00:48:10 <luke-jr> :D
Dec 02 00:48:20 <luke-jr> mikhas: it's g* even though it doesn't match literally
Dec 02 00:48:28 <luke-jr> that alone is reason enough
Dec 02 00:48:31 <Shapeshifter> luke-jr: you don't like gstreamer?
Dec 02 00:48:34 <mikhas> you hate gst?
Dec 02 00:48:36 <Shapeshifter> why not?
Dec 02 00:48:38 <Robot101> Shapeshifter: well... cool. why?
Dec 02 00:48:41 <luke-jr> Shapeshifter: it's g*
Dec 02 00:49:02 <mikhas> you must hate a lot of things then
Dec 02 00:49:07 <Shapeshifter> Robot101: I don't remember actually. I had it installed just 3 weeks ago and tried out everything but for some reason I went "meh" and continued using pidgin.
Dec 02 00:49:43 <Robot101> thanks, I'll pass that on to the guys in the office :P
Dec 02 00:49:48 <Shapeshifter> ^^
Dec 02 00:50:08 <Shapeshifter> luke-jr: no but gstreamer really is useful.
Dec 02 00:50:10 <luke-jr> Shapeshifter: to me, things like gstreamer are a waste anyway
Dec 02 00:50:13 <luke-jr> ALSA works just fine
Dec 02 00:50:18 <Shapeshifter> ewww alsa
Dec 02 00:50:30 <mikhas> luke-jr, ever tried to stream video with alsa?
Dec 02 00:50:32 <Robot101> luke-jr: these two things are not alike
Dec 02 00:50:41 <Shapeshifter> alsa needs to die
Dec 02 00:50:43 <Robot101> luke-jr: I don't like living in a house, I have a teapot
Dec 02 00:50:43 <luke-jr> mikhas: nope, that's what something like mplayer is for
Dec 02 00:51:00 <Shapeshifter> long live OSS
Dec 02 00:51:04 <luke-jr> Robot101: then gstreamer shouldn't fight ALSA
Dec 02 00:51:09 <Robot101> it doesn't
Dec 02 00:51:24 <Robot101> it uses alsa to access the hardware... thats why it has alsa plugins
Dec 02 00:51:27 <luke-jr> it doesn't lock the device when silent?
Dec 02 00:51:40 <luke-jr> preventing other ALSA apps from playing sound
Dec 02 00:51:48 <mikhas> filter graphs are a necessity for so many application that it is a bit silly to be against gst =)
Dec 02 00:51:49 <Robot101> its a library, it doesn't "do" anything you don't ask it to
Dec 02 00:51:58 <AakashPatel> psh feck this
Dec 02 00:52:02 <AakashPatel> i have to buy a number
Dec 02 00:52:11 <luke-jr> AakashPatel: wtf?
Dec 02 00:52:22 <Robot101> any alsa application can block any other alsa application from playing sound, thats why stuff like pulseaudio exists.
Dec 02 00:52:26 <AakashPatel> skype is a ftl
Dec 02 00:52:40 <luke-jr> mikhas: if gst wants me to use it, they need to stop depending on libglib
Dec 02 00:52:48 <Shapeshifter> pulse.... oh no
Dec 02 00:52:51 <luke-jr> Robot101: not true, by default ALSA will mix audio streams
Dec 02 00:53:23 <Robot101> luke-jr: by default, no it won't. you need to configure it to. and even if you did, gstreamer would still work fine.
Dec 02 00:53:28 <luke-jr> and even if you disable that for some reason, usually things don't lock it when not in use
Dec 02 00:53:29 <AakashPatel> now, waht was taht other way to video chat with google talk?
Dec 02 00:53:35 <luke-jr> Robot101: yes it does...
Dec 02 00:53:40 <Shapeshifter> for gods sake if you'd just use OSS everything would be brilliant
Dec 02 00:53:45 <Shapeshifter> it mixes perfectly
Dec 02 00:53:46 <Shapeshifter> anything
Dec 02 00:53:57 <luke-jr> OSS never mixed for me
Dec 02 00:54:14 <Shapeshifter> luke-jr: how can oss not mix.
Dec 02 00:54:20 <Shapeshifter> you just send stuff to /dev/dsp and it does the rest.
Dec 02 00:54:23 <Shapeshifter> basically.
Dec 02 00:54:30 <Robot101> it doesn't mix
Dec 02 00:54:32 <luke-jr> Shapeshifter: if you open /dev/dsp, nothing else can until you close it
Dec 02 00:54:35 <Robot101> and, OSS sucks
Dec 02 00:54:44 <Shapeshifter> and it gives you brilliant control over hardware.
Dec 02 00:54:46 <Robot101> ALSA is more complicated but thats the reality of things
Dec 02 00:55:11 <Shapeshifter> luke-jr: oh sorry, I mean mix0
Dec 02 00:55:24 <luke-jr> wtf is mix0
Dec 02 00:55:34 <Robot101> anyway, whatever. off topic for here, I don't care what you think of alsa or gstreamer if you're wrong. :P
Dec 02 00:55:44 <Shapeshifter> oss' mixer device.
Dec 02 00:55:47 <Shapeshifter> but meh.
Dec 02 00:55:51 <luke-jr> Robot101: am I wrong? gstreamer *doesn't* depend on libglib?
Dec 02 00:56:00 <Shapeshifter> alsa doesn't mix at all. you need shitty pulse as another layer
Dec 02 00:56:03 <SpeedEvil> Hmm...
Dec 02 00:56:06 <luke-jr> Shapeshifter: nonsense
Dec 02 00:56:07 <SpeedEvil> t-mobile PAYG
Dec 02 00:56:07 <tbf> luke-jr: if you refuse to use g*, you instantly must stop using Qt!
Dec 02 00:56:15 <SpeedEvil> Fair-use 1G/mo
Dec 02 00:56:17 <luke-jr> tbf: no
Dec 02 00:56:22 <SpeedEvil> 20 quid for 6 months!!!
Dec 02 00:56:23 <tbf> luke-jr: as its main loop has some gmainloop integration
Dec 02 00:56:29 <luke-jr> SpeedEvil: wtf?
Dec 02 00:56:33 <luke-jr> tbf: not mine
Dec 02 00:56:46 <luke-jr> USE=-glib kthx
Dec 02 00:56:47 <Shapeshifter> luke-jr: well, maybe we're just cross-unlucky. I all know is I block all alsa kernel modules, run oss as a daemon and bang every single app on my machine mixes.
Dec 02 00:56:48 <tbf> luke-jr: quite stupid
Dec 02 00:57:10 <SpeedEvil> luke-jr: https://www.t-mobile.co.uk/services/payg/boosters/ 6 month internet plus booster
Dec 02 00:57:11 <tbf> luke-jr: as this prevents you to reuse libraries using dbus-glib internally
Dec 02 00:57:25 <luke-jr> Shapeshifter: http://alsa.opensrc.org/DmixPlugin
Dec 02 00:57:35 <luke-jr> Shapeshifter: beginning with 1.0.9rc2, Dmix is enabled by default
Dec 02 00:57:52 <luke-jr> tbf: good, I don't want such on my system anyway
Dec 02 00:57:59 <luke-jr> tbf: I have libglib masked
Dec 02 00:58:04 <Shapeshifter> luke-jr: for some reason, alsa failed me on 3 boxes.
Dec 02 00:58:05 <luke-jr> so it will never be installed
Dec 02 00:58:17 <tbf> luke-jr: F***! you use >>>G<<<entoo1
Dec 02 00:58:27 <tbf> luke-jr: it starts with "G"! :-D
Dec 02 00:58:31 <mikhas> but he dislikes it =p
Dec 02 00:58:34 <luke-jr> tbf: Gentoo doesn't match g*
Dec 02 00:59:12 * SpeedEvil may not bother trying to work out other internet.
Dec 02 00:59:14 <AakashPatel> :0
Dec 02 00:59:23 <AakashPatel> can fring let me video chat w/o buyin mins?
Dec 02 00:59:28 <AakashPatel> like from phone to computer
Dec 02 00:59:50 <luke-jr> tbf: I am case sensitive. :D
Dec 02 01:00:18 <mikhas> fine, let's rename glib to ... wait for it ... Glib >=)
Dec 02 01:00:32 <luke-jr> it will still be g*!
Dec 02 01:00:32 <tbf> luke-jr: not sure if little penguins deserve a big "G" :-D
Dec 02 01:00:42 * mikhas stops now
Dec 02 01:01:16 <luke-jr> tbf: the moment HURD surpasses Linux in functionality and reliability, I will switch
Dec 02 01:02:55 <AakashPatel> Hey which version of fring do i use for the n900?
Dec 02 01:03:09 <luke-jr> wtf is fring
Dec 02 01:03:14 <AakashPatel> fring.com
Dec 02 01:03:16 <GeneralAntilles> AakashPatel, none, Fring sucks.
Dec 02 01:03:22 <AakashPatel> WHAT?
Dec 02 01:03:24 <AakashPatel> thats shit
Dec 02 01:03:27 <AakashPatel> idk what else to do lol
Dec 02 01:03:29 <AakashPatel> thats easy
Dec 02 01:03:42 <GeneralAntilles> They installed the SDK repo in a .install in Diablo.
Dec 02 01:03:47 <GeneralAntilles> I can't ever forgive them for the pain that caused.
Dec 02 01:04:18 <AakashPatel> GeneralAntilles: help me figure out how i can video chat in gtalk or skype free then lol
Dec 02 01:04:36 <Robot101> AakashPatel: the device doesn't support video call atm
Dec 02 01:04:43 <AakashPatel> :X
Dec 02 01:04:48 * AakashPatel keels over
Dec 02 01:05:13 <tbf> luke-jr: i've heard rumour maemo7 would use hurd
Dec 02 01:05:24 <luke-jr> tbf: I think you just fabricated that rumour.
Dec 02 01:05:26 <Robot101> it has the hardware but not all the software bits
Dec 02 01:05:38 <tbf> luke-jr: damn. you are the better troll.
Dec 02 01:06:14 * tbf raises white flag
Dec 02 01:06:42 <Robot101> tbf: I heard about Nokia evaluating NetBSD though... :)
Dec 02 01:07:14 <AakashPatel> hm how do i install xchat on this baby
Dec 02 01:07:23 <luke-jr> Robot101: crap, I don't know if you're serious or not.
Dec 02 01:07:29 <luke-jr> AakashPatel: X-Chat sucks.
Dec 02 01:07:39 <AakashPatel> haha everything sucks
Dec 02 01:07:42 <luke-jr> :D
Dec 02 01:07:44 <AakashPatel> what do i use for IRC then
Dec 02 01:07:51 <luke-jr> Quassel or Konversation of course
Dec 02 01:08:05 <derf> Don't listen to that fool.
Dec 02 01:08:09 <derf> screen+irssi
Dec 02 01:08:14 <luke-jr> no
Dec 02 01:08:16 <luke-jr> irssi is g*
Dec 02 01:08:39 <GeneralAntilles> AakashPatel, it's still in Extras-devel.
Dec 02 01:08:40 <derf> Folos don't get an opinion, sool.
Dec 02 01:09:07 <AakashPatel> luke-jr: what do you use :)
Dec 02 01:09:14 <luke-jr> AakashPatel: Konversation usually
Dec 02 01:09:20 <luke-jr> 1.1
Dec 02 01:10:20 <Robot101> AakashPatel: don't ask luke-jr's advice on software to run on maemo, he doesn't use it.
Dec 02 01:10:28 <Robot101> AakashPatel: he's just here as some light entertainment
Dec 02 01:10:37 <luke-jr> doesn't Maemo have its own IRC?
Dec 02 01:10:42 <AakashPatel> LOLWHAT?
Dec 02 01:10:48 <AakashPatel> I thought you had an N900
Dec 02 01:10:49 <AakashPatel> :P
Dec 02 01:11:17 <luke-jr> AakashPatel: no, I have a N810, but it doesn't run Maemo
Dec 02 01:11:21 <Robot101> you can install telepathy-idle to support IRC, but the built-in conversations doesn't support multi-user chats yet so its not too useful
Dec 02 01:11:32 <AakashPatel> GeneralAntilles: Okay, just got my n900 today, how do i brows "extras-devel"
Dec 02 01:11:34 <luke-jr> Robot101: seriously? that's STILL missing in Maemo 5?
Dec 02 01:11:38 <AakashPatel> browse*
Dec 02 01:11:42 <GeneralAntilles> ~extras
Dec 02 01:11:44 <infobot> it has been said that extras is http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras
Dec 02 01:11:49 <AakashPatel> ooo
Dec 02 01:12:38 <joerg_rw2> Lucke-jr: you might use CP transport which probably would work over NAT
Dec 02 01:13:07 <luke-jr> joerg_rw2: wtf is that? it's no longer really SIP at that point
Dec 02 01:15:08 <AakashPatel> huh
Dec 02 01:15:18 <AakashPatel> I search titles and descriptions for "IRC"
Dec 02 01:15:21 <AakashPatel> no results
Dec 02 01:15:28 <luke-jr> lol
Dec 02 01:16:01 <GeneralAntilles> AakashPatel, add the repository to the application manager.
Dec 02 01:16:17 <AakashPatel> i enabled extras
Dec 02 01:16:30 <AakashPatel> oh wait, extras-devel is different?
Dec 02 01:16:40 <arachnist> yes
Dec 02 01:16:47 <AakashPatel> i see
Dec 02 01:16:48 <AakashPatel> sry
Dec 02 01:17:59 <luke-jr> extras-devel is "this is probably broken, don't try it"
Dec 02 01:18:14 <arachnist> well
Dec 02 01:18:17 <fchurca> Hi people
Dec 02 01:18:18 <GeneralAntilles> AakashPatel, the wiki link from infobot contains everything you need to know about the repos.
Dec 02 01:18:34 <arachnist> luke-jr: with varying degrees of broken
Dec 02 01:18:52 <fchurca> I'm an engineering student from Argentina. Does anyone know when the N900 release will be here?
Dec 02 01:19:09 <luke-jr> fchurca: yesterday
Dec 02 01:19:17 <fchurca> :O
Dec 02 01:19:17 <AakashPatel> https://garage.maemo.org/extras-assistant/install/extras-devel.install
Dec 02 01:19:18 <AakashPatel> erm
Dec 02 01:19:19 <AakashPatel> wrong window
Dec 02 01:20:30 <GeneralAntilles> AakashPatel, just don't leave that repo enabled.
Dec 02 01:20:33 <GeneralAntilles> Get what you need and disable it.
Dec 02 01:20:36 <AakashPatel> okay i will
Dec 02 01:20:48 <jebbajeb> AakashPatel: i saw an irc plugin for conversations in -testing iirc
Dec 02 01:20:48 <AakashPatel> Message extras-devel not avaiable on server"
Dec 02 01:20:51 <AakashPatel> :/
Dec 02 01:21:03 <fchurca> luke-jr: most people "selling" the N900 here are unofficial importers. I was looking forward to an official release by Nokia or a service provider like Claro
Dec 02 01:21:15 <luke-jr> fchurca: np, I was pulling that out of my butt
Dec 02 01:21:22 <fchurca> ah hahaha
Dec 02 01:21:44 <AakashPatel> GeneralAntilles: Is it normal for it to be down often?
Dec 02 01:21:56 <jebbajeb> fchurca: it's not even listed on nokia shop's argentina page yet, not even preorder...
Dec 02 01:22:02 <jebbajeb> i got mine off mercadolibre....
Dec 02 01:22:02 <fchurca> How much does the N900 cost around there? (wherever "there" is)
Dec 02 01:22:33 <GeneralAntilles> AakashPatel, lately, yes.
Dec 02 01:22:38 <AakashPatel> I see :/
Dec 02 01:22:45 <luke-jr> fchurca: $500 to $1000 depending on "there"
Dec 02 01:22:48 <jebbajeb> i'm using -devel repo fine right now fwiw.
Dec 02 01:23:15 <fchurca> luke-jr: Is that in USD?
Dec 02 01:23:47 <AakashPatel> yay
Dec 02 01:23:50 <AakashPatel> it added this time
Dec 02 01:23:57 <luke-jr> fchurca: yeah
Dec 02 01:24:21 <fchurca> luke-jr: thx
Dec 02 01:25:15 <AakashPatel> yess xchat
Dec 02 01:25:58 <fchurca> Can one develop in the n900? does it have gcc and an editor?
Dec 02 01:26:50 <GeneralAntilles> fchurca, you can install build-essential, yes.
Dec 02 01:27:12 <luke-jr> fchurca: N900 is hardware. you mean Maemo 5
Dec 02 01:27:41 <Archanamiya> !lol
Dec 02 01:27:41 <ArchaBot> ╔══╗─╔═════╦══╗
Dec 02 01:27:41 <ArchaBot> ║──║─║──║──║──║
Dec 02 01:27:41 <ArchaBot> ║──║─║──║──║──║
Dec 02 01:27:41 <ArchaBot> ║──╚═╣──║──║──╚═╗
Dec 02 01:27:41 <ArchaBot> ║────║─────║────║
Dec 02 01:27:44 <fchurca> luke-jr: yes, you are correct. I mean the N900 out of the box with maemo
Dec 02 01:27:45 <ArchaBot> ╚════╩═════╩════╝
Dec 02 01:27:51 <b-man17> O.o
Dec 02 01:27:55 <Archanamiya> xP
Dec 02 01:27:59 <fchurca> GeneralAntilles: how does it behave?
Dec 02 01:28:00 <GeneralAntilles> Archanamiya, no botspam, please.
Dec 02 01:28:02 <Archanamiya> sry
Dec 02 01:28:05 <Archanamiya> :P
Dec 02 01:28:08 <fnordianslip> GeneralAntilles: is build-essential and its deps optified?
Dec 02 01:28:15 <GeneralAntilles> fchurca, fine, talk to lcuk, he does all of his dev work on the N900
Dec 02 01:28:18 <GeneralAntilles> fnordianslip, no idea.
Dec 02 01:28:18 <v2px_> !die
Dec 02 01:28:22 * v2px_ sighs
Dec 02 01:28:24 <fnordianslip> k
Dec 02 01:28:26 <Archanamiya> lawl
Dec 02 01:28:43 <jebbajeb> i don't see gcc in any of the "stock" repos (-extras -testing -devel), but there's no reason it couldn't be added. Plenty of text editors.
Dec 02 01:28:43 <Archanamiya> !stab infobot
Dec 02 01:29:16 <luke-jr> fchurca: I run Gentoo on my N810.
Dec 02 01:29:40 <fchurca> luke-jr: sweet
Dec 02 01:30:23 <fchurca> luke-jr: apart from debian and gentoo (and maemo), what else has been ported?
Dec 02 01:30:31 <GeneralAntilles> jebbajeb, SDK tools.
Dec 02 01:30:57 <arachnist> fchurca: there was a port of android
Dec 02 01:31:00 <jebbajeb> GeneralAntilles: ?
Dec 02 01:31:17 <GeneralAntilles> jebbajeb, it's in one of the SDK repos.
Dec 02 01:31:30 <fchurca> seems it'll be nice
Dec 02 01:31:46 <fchurca> can one do multiboot?
Dec 02 01:32:01 <jebbajeb> fchurca: yes
Dec 02 01:32:16 <fchurca> it'll be nice indeed :D
Dec 02 01:32:34 <luke-jr> fchurca: to a degree
Dec 02 01:32:45 <fchurca> can someone point me to the doc for that so i don't bother you through here?
Dec 02 01:33:07 <jebbajeb> fchurca: https://wiki.maemo.org/Booting_from_a_flash_card
Dec 02 01:33:30 <fchurca> takk
Dec 02 01:44:31 <fchurca> jebbajeb: n900s on mercadolibre are way too expensive :S
Dec 02 01:44:47 <fchurca> jebbajeb: I'll wait for an official release
Dec 02 01:44:49 <jebbajeb> ya no kidding
Dec 02 01:45:23 <fchurca> everyone: thanks for your time; i'm leaving
Dec 02 01:45:27 <fchurca> see you soon!
Dec 02 01:52:46 <jebbajeb> hmm, could someone package up `less` pretty plz?
Dec 02 01:52:47 <jebbajeb> :)
Dec 02 02:01:15 <fnordianslippers> jebbajeb: more is less
Dec 02 02:01:25 <fnordianslippers> ish
Dec 02 02:02:34 <jebbajeb> fnordianslippers: uh, yes, more certainly is less than less...  even after I wrote that I went straight to my terminal and typed `less xorg.conf`.  It's pretty ingrained in me.
Dec 02 02:03:29 <SpeedEvil> err - less is there
Dec 02 02:04:04 <SpeedEvil> apt-get install less
Dec 02 02:04:11 <SpeedEvil> well - after you've setup the right repos
Dec 02 02:04:56 <jebbajeb> SpeedEvil: which is the right repo in this case?
Dec 02 02:06:04 <jebbajeb> (don't see it in extras or extras-testing... I disabled -devel for now, i'll go see if it's there=
Dec 02 02:06:33 <SpeedEvil>  /etc/apt/sources.list
Dec 02 02:06:36 <SpeedEvil> # fremantle tools
Dec 02 02:06:36 <SpeedEvil> deb http://repository.maemo.org fremantle/tools free non-free
Dec 02 02:06:38 <SpeedEvil> I think
Dec 02 02:07:05 <jebbajeb> ah cool thx, hadnt seen that repo.  amassing lots of info at the moment...
Dec 02 02:08:56 <jebbajeb> a real `top` ps free df etc would be nice instead of busybox versions too
Dec 02 02:15:28 <aspidites> i've done some research and i see that efforts are being made to have hildonized widgets in qt. does anyone know if they are coming to pyqt or pyside at all?
Dec 02 02:16:46 <AakashN900> yo
Dec 02 02:16:56 <aspidites> hi
Dec 02 02:18:40 <crashanddie> GeneralAntilles: they're fucking idiots
Dec 02 02:27:15 <GeneralAntilles> crashanddie, agreed.
Dec 02 02:27:19 <GeneralAntilles> crashanddie, no luck at all?
Dec 02 02:27:31 <crashanddie> GeneralAntilles: oh, sorry, talking about the guys on tmo about the lawsuit
Dec 02 02:27:36 <GeneralAntilles> lol
Dec 02 02:27:50 <crashanddie> GeneralAntilles: buying the mbp in a few minutes, got the cash from an atm and gave it to a colleague
Dec 02 02:27:58 <GeneralAntilles> Hehe, sweet.
Dec 02 02:28:04 <GeneralAntilles> Glossy or matte?
Dec 02 02:28:38 <crashanddie> glossy
Dec 02 02:29:20 <aspidites>  /join #ubuntu
Dec 02 02:29:26 <aspidites> erm.. oops
Dec 02 02:33:18 <Sargun_Screen> pyay
Dec 02 02:33:23 <Sargun_Screen> it works
Dec 02 02:38:41 <Sargun_Screen> doesm the n900 have a soft keyboard
Dec 02 02:38:51 <GeneralAntilles> Yes
Dec 02 02:39:11 <jebbajeb> Sargun_Screen: yes, but i haven't used it. I've seen reference to it in settings as a preferred keyboard or somesuch
Dec 02 02:39:34 <Blast> Hello all... have a question... provided the N900 can vibrate... is there an API for that?
Dec 02 02:41:23 <GeneralAntilles> Yes
Dec 02 02:41:42 * crashanddie imagines the creepiest thing "SOFT VIBRATOR"
Dec 02 02:41:46 <Flandry> oh great. Another guy writing a vibrator app
Dec 02 02:42:44 <crashanddie> I'm going to change the vibrator motor and connect a much more powerful motor (like a windscreen wiper or something)
Dec 02 02:43:12 <crashanddie> Then I'm going to write an app for it. There will be three settings on the vibrator: Courageous, Mental and Heroic
Dec 02 02:55:25 <Sargun_Screen> hey
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Dec 02 02:59:57 2009