**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Dec 02 02:59:57 2009 Dec 02 03:00:20 this thing is coooool Dec 02 03:00:25 :/ Dec 02 03:05:50 http://maemo.org/api_refs/5.0/5.0-final/dbus-glib/dbus-binding-tool.html ohhh.... great doc "blablablalba" great! Dec 02 03:09:36 lol Dec 02 03:09:50 that's what you get for using glib Dec 02 03:13:58 man, 16GB is so tiny Dec 02 03:14:04 physically even Dec 02 03:14:26 anyone tried editing the mmc-mount script yet so it mounts ext3 cards? :> Dec 02 03:14:26 i have 64GB of space in my laptop Dec 02 03:14:39 * ShadowJK has 40 in his N900 :-( Dec 02 03:14:48 32 in N800 Dec 02 03:14:51 10 in N810 Dec 02 03:15:02 eventually I shall have 48, when I get my hands on the N900 Dec 02 03:15:02 38 in n900 Dec 02 03:15:11 and my iPod will be retired permanently Dec 02 03:15:58 hello Dec 02 03:15:58 just got my N900, dunno what to do now Dec 02 03:16:17 my iPod was retired permanently... Dec 02 03:16:18 hack the gibson, of course Dec 02 03:16:26 ...when I got it Dec 02 03:16:27 Klowner: add a bunch of repos and install everything you see Dec 02 03:16:37 .....With a sledgehammer Dec 02 03:16:45 Sargun_Screen: tragic Dec 02 03:17:09 jebbajeb: is there a list of magical repos somewhere? Dec 02 03:17:34 extras is safe, extras-testing is less safe, extras-devel is least safe Dec 02 03:18:28 they're probably on wiki.maemo.org ;) Dec 02 03:18:29 * GeneralAntilles sighs. Dec 02 03:18:38 I bought a US/EU adaptor for the Summit, now I've lost it. Dec 02 03:19:11 48 Dec 02 03:19:20 and a question Dec 02 03:19:32 Klowner: configure some sharing accounts, configure your IM's Dec 02 03:19:47 where should I report simple short bugreports about maemo on N900? Dec 02 03:19:48 configure your email, calendar Dec 02 03:20:07 import contacts from your old phone Dec 02 03:20:17 merge contact (phone/email/im) Dec 02 03:20:31 DocScrutinizer: hey Dec 02 03:20:41 Klowner: should be enough to make you busy for the next few hours Dec 02 03:20:55 are you going to put fso on the n900 Dec 02 03:21:45 like "N900 unlock screen doesn't dim, when regularly touched. Expected: screen goes dim after few seconds, if not correctly unlocked. Found: screen light stays on, consuming power, when touched" Dec 02 03:22:14 http://bugs.maemo.org/ Dec 02 03:22:22 ok Dec 02 03:22:42 ShadowJK: it looks like all you should have to change in the mmc-mount script is replacing "vfat" with "auto" Dec 02 03:22:44 another one I just want to discuss before I report: Dec 02 03:23:07 arachnist, I thought so too Dec 02 03:23:08 dialer doesn't take "*100#" Dec 02 03:23:18 DocScrutinizer: there's a bug for that Dec 02 03:23:24 ok Dec 02 03:23:28 thanks Dec 02 03:23:53 hrrrm, skype calls and nobody can hear me, that's not great Dec 02 03:23:59 I hope I didn't get a bad mic one Dec 02 03:24:20 DocScrutinizer: btw, if you really have to, there's a way to just enter it using AT commands Dec 02 03:24:38 bug 5357 Dec 02 03:24:40 i wish the n900 had a soft cover Dec 02 03:24:41 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5357 Does not accept GSM (USSD) Codes starting with *# Dec 02 03:24:42 arachnist: (vfat/auto) good idea. found that as well Dec 02 03:24:46 liie the n810 Dec 02 03:25:42 arachnist: (AT, 5357) is the way to directly interface modem AT interface mentioned in this bug? Dec 02 03:26:55 DocScrutinizer: /dev/ppp ? Dec 02 03:27:14 (though i suspected something more like /dev/tty*) Dec 02 03:27:26 Klowner: http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras-testing that's one to start with Dec 02 03:28:22 Klowner: i had no problems with calling people over skype that used their PCs Dec 02 03:29:17 Klowner: calling people using fring on windows mobile didn't work well, though Dec 02 03:32:00 arachnist: hmm, not quite obvious Dec 02 03:32:31 the mentioned russian site says ""dbus-send --system --dest=com.nokia.csd.Call --type=method_call --print-reply /com/nokia/csd/call com.nokia.csd.Call.CreateWith string:"$1" uint32:0"" Dec 02 03:32:52 don't get any of the rest Dec 02 03:33:46 arachnist: and /dev/ppp most likely is the data channel of the gsm07muxer Dec 02 03:34:06 hmm Dec 02 03:34:14 if not a completely separate physical interface of the modem Dec 02 03:34:21 dunno Dec 02 03:35:38 well, for sure I could check and try all usual suspects in /dev Dec 02 03:36:11 but I'd appreciate a short hint of someone knowing exactly which interface is AT Dec 02 03:38:41 Sargun_Screen: (FSO) Probably not anytime soon. Maybe FSO team might consider to do so Dec 02 03:40:13 did they ever port it to the palm pre? Dec 02 03:40:36 looks like xchat crashes when you try to save preferences... Dec 02 03:40:41 grrr, mic better not be busted Dec 02 03:41:33 Klowner: you have headfones plugged in? you could also try a different app. Could just be skrype Dec 02 03:44:54 different app could be "recorder". Just tested - works great Dec 02 03:47:59 headphone works, yelling at the device itself I hear nothing Dec 02 03:48:35 Klowner: you're aware headset hat ships with N900 has a builtin mic? Dec 02 03:48:50 in the clip Dec 02 03:49:26 correct, that works Dec 02 03:49:35 there's a mic IN the phone though, right? Dec 02 03:49:40 or do you say you don't use headphones, and skype doesn't work with builtin device mic? Dec 02 03:49:49 correct Dec 02 03:49:53 lol, ure there is Dec 02 03:50:11 so, can you place normal phonecalls? Dec 02 03:50:25 I have no sim yet Dec 02 03:50:30 :-/ Dec 02 03:51:27 seems you should get one for 30min rather soon, to thoroughly test device Dec 02 03:52:12 is there another app to test audio input? Dec 02 03:52:25 after a few weeks it's usually not that easy to get a replacement rather than a repair Dec 02 03:52:50 record should work for builtin as well I guess Dec 02 03:52:54 lemme try... Dec 02 03:53:25 works great Dec 02 03:56:57 in an extras repos? Dec 02 03:57:09 * DocScrutinizer christens his device "Iron" Dec 02 03:57:22 (extras) possibly Dec 02 03:58:15 wow supertux runs great Dec 02 04:00:17 Klowner: "Voice Recorder" 0.3.2 - alas the prog.manager doesn't tell me which repo it's from Dec 02 04:00:28 :-( Dec 02 04:01:12 actually repo management in progman isn't that great Dec 02 04:02:06 it's in maemo extras Dec 02 04:02:19 and I'm not hearing anything Dec 02 04:02:21 yes, expected that Dec 02 04:02:27 ohhh Dec 02 04:02:44 that's actually strange Dec 02 04:03:16 with headset it works? Dec 02 04:03:37 (record via headset mic, playback with hs unplugged) Dec 02 04:03:38 yeah Dec 02 04:04:15 yep, works fine through the headset Dec 02 04:04:27 playback through headset and device both work Dec 02 04:04:48 sounds actually like a borked digital mic Dec 02 04:05:44 * DocScrutinizer wonders if the missing SIM / disabled phone might... o.O Dec 02 04:05:57 s/phone/modem Dec 02 04:05:57 klowner you could try a good ol reboot (i say with dread). could just be pulseaudio Dec 02 04:06:12 yep Dec 02 04:06:33 problem is more likely software than hardware Dec 02 04:06:44 most usually Dec 02 04:07:22 mic's been tested a few days ago. Worked back when Dec 02 04:07:41 hah. volume rocker in xchat flips thru channels Dec 02 04:09:08 aaaaah, xchat, my love. Almost forgot to give you a try Dec 02 04:10:42 reboot did nothin Dec 02 04:10:50 there seems to be a lot of people with bad mics on the forums Dec 02 04:10:53 dangit Dec 02 04:11:31 * Arkenoi looked closely at the screen - one week of use, one minor scratch. if the rate keeps the screen will look damn ugly at the end of year. any advices? is there a way to remove scratches later? Dec 02 04:11:57 Arkenoi, don't put sand in your pockets? Dec 02 04:13:41 i doubt it was there. i am pretty sure there was nothing except the phone itself in that pocket. Dec 02 04:14:22 docscrutinizer: saving prefs crashes though. Also ddont see how to do tab for nick completion Dec 02 04:15:07 Arkenoi, I've had it since September and don't have any scratches. Dec 02 04:15:17 jebba900: for tab I defined another key on N810 Dec 02 04:17:18 £ and € would be good candidates for tab and pipe. How do you change 'em? Dec 02 04:17:29 so good so far Dec 02 04:18:05 guess I edited the xchat config file Dec 02 04:18:35 ah, just in xchat not systemwide ? Dec 02 04:18:45 Klowner: ouch. share pointer? Dec 02 04:19:24 jebba900: yes Dec 02 04:19:41 in maemomaps the only way i can figure out how to leave is to open the camera! Dec 02 04:20:09 jebba900: probably can use the ctrl-bksp thing too Dec 02 04:20:28 errr, hit upper left, the eventually a screen with close X shows up Dec 02 04:20:40 Ovi Maps is junk Dec 02 04:20:43 Don't bother with it. Dec 02 04:20:44 heh nice thx. lots to learn still Dec 02 04:20:45 s/left/right Dec 02 04:21:25 well, i think i am going to buy a case, i guess iphone one with elastic sides may fit Dec 02 04:21:56 i was using maemomaps. gpx or something worked great then i realized it was just a treasure hunting game or somesuch Dec 02 04:22:04 Arkenoi: seems hard to slide out kbd then Dec 02 04:22:50 also there is openstreetmaps EDITOR which may be usable. Not sure wwhich is best yet Dec 02 04:23:22 jebba900: as I said: hit "daa didididit" opper right, then hit X same location Dec 02 04:24:13 will see how it fits. i hope i can find one which is easy to open and take the phone out Dec 02 04:24:38 Case seems rather pointless Dec 02 04:24:44 Screen protector is the way to go. Dec 02 04:24:50 Bonus: glare and smudge reduction Dec 02 04:24:51 actually if n900 screen is the same plastic used in e90, it is quite hard to scratch and the scratch i got must be accidental Dec 02 04:24:58 Hopefully Boxwave will have one soon. Dec 02 04:24:58 I'm thinking about a screen protector foil Dec 02 04:25:20 did a good job on N810 Dec 02 04:25:48 though there I disassembled screen to pace the foil under the bezel Dec 02 04:26:12 it should be ok to take a psp screen protector and cut it to fit n900 Dec 02 04:26:15 where did you get transparent foil? Dec 02 04:26:45 Or just buy one that'll actually fit. Dec 02 04:27:14 general: i doubt i can find one in a local store soon and cutting is not hard part at all Dec 02 04:28:39 got me a one-size-fits-all kit in local electronics store Dec 02 04:29:52 cutting wasn't hard, as I didn't have to cut to exact size, as mentioned above Dec 02 04:30:20 got two microbubbles though :-/ Dec 02 04:31:06 and of course the device looks a loot less shiny and the screen less crisp Dec 02 04:32:06 and ts sensitivity is somewhat reduced Dec 02 04:32:31 I'm still pondering... Dec 02 04:35:39 DocScrutinizer: what do you put your n900 inside of? Dec 02 04:36:44 wow canola looks nice Dec 02 04:36:55 your pocket! Dec 02 04:42:48 welp, looks like the mic doesn't work Dec 02 04:43:44 That's awesome. Dec 02 04:44:05 It almost seems like Nokia cranked down the QC in favor of meeting demand. Dec 02 04:44:28 lol Dec 02 04:44:42 N810 mic doesn't work with non-Maemo yet Dec 02 04:44:52 what I keep wondering is whether it's hardware or whether it's the mixer levels for that mic Dec 02 04:45:05 greenfly, well, reflashes haven't solved it. Dec 02 04:45:08 So it seems like it's hardware. Dec 02 04:45:10 But, dunno. Dec 02 04:45:15 poking around in alsamixer didn't help Dec 02 04:45:15 ... Dec 02 04:45:19 but if they reflashed with the same firmware Dec 02 04:45:24 that had the problem Dec 02 04:45:27 reflashes won't help if it defaults to muted Dec 02 04:45:43 greenfly, well, I'm running that firmware on my device and the mic works fine. Dec 02 04:45:48 So, no, that doesn't really explain it. Dec 02 04:45:57 and lots of other people with retail firmware have mics that work fine, too. Dec 02 04:47:14 hm Dec 02 04:47:17 I'm just saying it could be explained by either Dec 02 04:47:39 if we had pulse mixer controls on it... Dec 02 04:48:42 If it were firmware, EVERY device would have the issue. Dec 02 04:49:13 i have no problems with mic either Dec 02 04:49:54 Klowner, fedex give you your fix? Dec 02 04:50:05 DangerMaus: yes, and the mic isn't working Dec 02 04:52:08 hmmm Dec 02 04:52:18 hmm. Somehow admin@online.gnome.org made it into my Contacts list. They are listed as being in Villa Crespo, Argentina which I seriously doubt... Dec 02 04:52:25 i didnt check that yet Dec 02 04:55:25 stupid left thumb just cant hit the pad rite Dec 02 05:00:28 lol Dec 02 05:00:36 The Nokia Blog so stole my story. Dec 02 05:01:43 this is almost more frustrating than waiting for this darn thing Dec 02 05:02:59 bloody hell no tab on the hardware kb? Dec 02 05:03:27 no pipe either heh Dec 02 05:04:11 no alt Dec 02 05:04:15 would be nice to remap £€. Dont dare tread into xmodmap territory yet tho Dec 02 05:04:17 DangerMaus, just rebind it. Dec 02 05:04:21 Details on maemo-developers. Dec 02 05:05:40 morning... Dec 02 05:05:42 * DangerMaus never figured out xmodmap or re editing keymaps Dec 02 05:06:06 just always wound up with busted keymaps Dec 02 05:06:12 has anyone here been working with Qt on the N900? Dec 02 05:06:59 I need to do conditional compilation with the Q_WS_HILDON #define, as mentioned on the Maemo wiki, but I think I'm not understanding that fully Dec 02 05:07:24 is that set automatically based on the port of Qt that you're building against, or do you have to set it manually somewhere? Dec 02 05:09:08 in silient mode when u browse youtube Dec 02 05:09:12 does it meant to give sound? Dec 02 05:10:53 Venomrush, are you saying it is making noise, or asking if it should? Dec 02 05:11:43 asking if it should Dec 02 05:11:49 i expect in silent mode Dec 02 05:11:54 no sound wat soever Dec 02 05:12:15 except music play Dec 02 05:12:19 Venomrush, I believe silent/general is for notifications, vs the slider for user volume Dec 02 05:12:29 a bit counterinuitive for most phones Dec 02 05:12:55 then again, my old phone had "silent" and "vibrate" mode, where vibrate==silent, and silent==*mostly* silent Dec 02 05:12:56 lol Dec 02 05:12:57 so... Dec 02 05:23:07 allo Dec 02 05:26:43 how the heck do you have a $0.50 component be busted and not know it Dec 02 05:26:52 hmm? Dec 02 05:27:03 My N900 mic doesn't work and I'm pissed Dec 02 05:27:03 which $.50 component of mine is busted? Dec 02 05:27:23 Klowner, were you the one asking on the forum? Dec 02 05:27:30 no Dec 02 05:27:35 ah Dec 02 05:27:45 it appears I'm not the only one Dec 02 05:27:47 many people have that problem Dec 02 05:27:58 Is the default weather app good? or is another one in the repos a better deal? Dec 02 05:28:06 Xisdibik, omweather Dec 02 05:28:54 hi everyone Dec 02 05:29:11 good morning ersin Dec 02 05:30:00 i have python2.5 installed in scratchbox, but when i compile part of the program seems to be detecting scratchbox's python2.3 package, because my build chokes when ld tries to link to the python2.3 libs but can't find them Dec 02 05:30:20 then i tried to look for libpython2.3* under /scratchbox, but i couldn't find it Dec 02 05:30:38 klowner you got url to others with same prob? Dec 02 05:31:00 jebba900: yep, there's some on the nokia forums, and maemo forums Dec 02 05:31:08 url? Dec 02 05:31:09 jebba900: and people on twitter.. Dec 02 05:31:17 any ideas? Dec 02 05:31:42 jebba900: http://discussions.nokiausa.com/discussions/board/message?board.id=maemo&thread.id=68 Dec 02 05:31:56 jebba900: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=35075 Dec 02 05:34:55 is it possible to change the fontsize globally? Dec 02 05:35:21 not that ive seen re: fontsize Dec 02 05:36:03 mhm Dec 02 05:36:21 idea .. Dec 02 05:36:53 cehteh, maybe in a theme? Dec 02 05:36:58 works :) Dec 02 05:37:25 i didnt really expect it .. i changed the -dpi of the Xserver in the SDK Dec 02 05:37:42 you likely can change that on the real device too Dec 02 05:37:58 Klowner, checked my mic and it works in the voice recorder Dec 02 05:38:13 no sim atm Dec 02 05:38:23 lucky Dec 02 05:38:31 still trying to recover skype passwd Dec 02 05:38:40 anybody at all know why the app i'm trying to compile is trying to link with python2.3 libs or where i can get python2.3 libs? Dec 02 05:38:51 (in scratchbox?) Dec 02 05:39:17 * DangerMaus passes Klowner a cold one Dec 02 05:42:10 now i would like to know how to send a 'return' keystroke in pidgin Dec 02 05:42:25 ctrl-ret doesnt work Dec 02 05:42:33 (SDK) Dec 02 05:44:18 cehteh, try sliding out the keyboard and see if that changes behaviour Dec 02 05:44:33 sdk! Dec 02 05:44:40 i dont have a device yet Dec 02 05:45:27 heh Dec 02 05:48:00 well if anyone of you want to try .. you can change the fontsizes globally by forcing the xserver to a different dpi setting Dec 02 05:59:13 :) Dec 02 05:59:24 yay, xchat setup :D Dec 02 06:04:02 cool Dec 02 06:10:53 Xisdibik what repo is xchat in? Dec 02 06:11:03 ok so i've installed python2.3 and /usr/lib/libpython2.3* is present, but when i run ld -lpython2.3 it still says that it "cannot be found" Dec 02 06:11:10 any ideas? Dec 02 06:11:25 /usr/lib is in LD_LIBRARY_PATH Dec 02 06:14:43 DangerMaus: devel afaik Dec 02 06:14:56 crap Dec 02 06:15:02 DangerMaus: did you get your n900 today? :D Dec 02 06:15:12 not ready to play there yet Dec 02 06:15:22 :) Dec 02 06:15:26 ive only played with select things there Dec 02 06:15:30 and the Mic works Dec 02 06:15:35 xchat, and telepathy haze to be exact Dec 02 06:16:06 back to the 770 for xchat Dec 02 06:17:03 brb grabbing skyp stuff from rents puter Dec 02 06:19:17 ersin, eek, that's old Dec 02 06:19:22 probably not easily Dec 02 06:22:14 guess I'll call nokia care in the morning Dec 02 06:23:20 Morning! Dec 02 06:23:31 Klowner what's the problem? Dec 02 06:23:46 jaem: i think i narrowed it to finding the python2.3-dev package Dec 02 06:23:53 dead mic Dec 02 06:24:18 just reflashed the firmware too, still nothi Dec 02 06:24:22 openoffice is detecting python2.3 in some random places...it's a very difficult package to build, i already had to make gcc 4.2 =/ Dec 02 06:24:29 ok, then it sounds dead Dec 02 06:24:39 bummer Dec 02 06:25:13 I got finger prints aaaaaaall over it Dec 02 06:25:57 does ANYONE know where i can download python2.3-dev???? Dec 02 06:27:12 ersin, for maemo4 or maemo5 sdk? Dec 02 06:27:18 maemo4 Dec 02 06:27:44 i've combed all the repository.maemo.org dirs as well as gronmayer.lt Dec 02 06:28:14 the closest i got is this: http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/unstable/4.0beta/content-comparison-3.2-to-4.0beta.html Dec 02 06:28:31 it looks like python2.3-dev was removed after the 3.2 sdk Dec 02 06:28:40 but i can't find it any bora/mistral repos... Dec 02 06:30:02 errr, earlier I thought you *didn't* want python2.3? Dec 02 06:31:03 ersin, it probably was Dec 02 06:31:05 no no Dec 02 06:31:09 gah, did talk.maemo.org just take a dump? Dec 02 06:31:09 and you don't want to try to install packages that old Dec 02 06:31:11 what? Dec 02 06:31:26 i *do* want it Dec 02 06:31:26 openoffice is detecting it for some reason Dec 02 06:31:37 because that's the default python version in maemo4 scratchbox sdk Dec 02 06:32:01 despite the fact that i've already installed python2.5 from extras in my scratchbox, it's detecting the default, which is python2.3 Dec 02 06:32:03 so, just modify openoffice's build scripts to explicitly call python2.5 Dec 02 06:32:18 heh yeah easier said than done... Dec 02 06:32:26 no kidding :) Dec 02 06:32:40 such a convoluted build process Dec 02 06:32:44 this thing is a monster Dec 02 06:32:53 and i have no idea why it would detect the older version Dec 02 06:32:55 I looked at OO.o's build system once and decided that abiword was probably good enough for me Dec 02 06:33:19 if you type "python -V" what does it say? Dec 02 06:33:20 well i did the most recent abiword port, which is quite nice Dec 02 06:33:32 and i'm trying to get OOo for my next project ;-) Dec 02 06:33:38 whoa Dec 02 06:33:48 python -v says "Python 2.3.4" Dec 02 06:33:53 yeah Dec 02 06:33:55 but i definitely have python2.5 as well Dec 02 06:34:04 that's why it's finding python 2.3 :) Dec 02 06:34:36 ^^ Dec 02 06:34:41 oh wow stupid path order Dec 02 06:34:51 it's looking for the scratchbox stuff first, duh Dec 02 06:34:54 so, maybe tweak OO.o's build to explicitly call python2.5 in place of python2.3? or maybe some hacking with alias or something? /me shrugs Dec 02 06:35:06 no i'll just switch the path order, that should do it Dec 02 06:35:11 i hope...heh Dec 02 06:35:16 Xisdibik_N900: Dec 02 06:35:26 :) Dec 02 06:35:28 danger danger :) other things in sb will probably fail after that, but it's worth a shot Dec 02 06:35:32 but why would scratchbox sdk ship with python2.3 but not have the dev libs?? Dec 02 06:35:52 for the same reason that I gave up on sb years ago Dec 02 06:36:01 hah! and how do you do maemo dev then? Dec 02 06:36:12 because it's a little bit too complicated for its own good (IMHO) Dec 02 06:36:23 I hack on mer stuff. :) Dec 02 06:36:28 nice Dec 02 06:36:41 how's that coming along these days? Dec 02 06:36:51 a little slow. could always use more hands :) Dec 02 06:37:08 like on what? Dec 02 06:37:17 (in particular) Dec 02 06:37:21 if.at.first.u.dont suceed simply ssh home and reattach to irssi Dec 02 06:37:57 irssi ftl Dec 02 06:38:53 dmausm:) Dec 02 06:38:54 ersin, hmm, packaging, hacking on the non-3D accelerated version of the desktop Dec 02 06:39:19 if you're interested in kernel level stuff, there's a little bit to do there before we can move on from 2.6.21 Dec 02 06:39:36 Dmaus_990 :) Dec 02 06:39:45 uhm, in either case, sound stuff could use work (pulse-dsp) Dec 02 06:40:04 johnx: "a little bit" does not explain the extent of the necessary reverse engineering well Dec 02 06:40:35 luke-jr, shhh. 'em in the door first, then scare them after that :) Dec 02 06:40:39 is the main difficulty because mer needs to reverse engineer the closed source nokia bins? Dec 02 06:40:44 hahahah Dec 02 06:41:00 ersin: Mer doesn't *need* to reverse *all* of them <.< Dec 02 06:41:02 there kernel itself is told to be not tained Dec 02 06:41:25 oh i'm interested already...i probably won't be able to start for a while because i'm in the middle of grad program apps and, ofc, porting ooo ;) Dec 02 06:41:28 there are prolly some firmware blobs which are poked into the DSP and stuff Dec 02 06:41:34 OOo ftl Dec 02 06:41:39 lol Dec 02 06:41:45 yeah, I don't mind the firmware blobs too much Dec 02 06:41:51 biggest #1 blob problem is gpsdriver Dec 02 06:41:54 after that, BME Dec 02 06:41:59 cehteh, yeah, I believe we're missing the DSP tasks themselves, so no sound for right now Dec 02 06:42:00 and finally GLES libs Dec 02 06:42:09 hehe .. and dont forget about hacking baseband :P Dec 02 06:42:09 not-so-important are firmware blobs and NOLO Dec 02 06:42:15 that will make some people really angry Dec 02 06:42:21 johnx: sound output works fine on 2.6.30 Dec 02 06:42:24 i thought there was a SNES emulator in the repos, is it not ready yet? Dec 02 06:42:33 johnx: for N810 at least Dec 02 06:42:37 luke-jr, on the N810 it does. On the N800 I believe it doesn't Dec 02 06:42:38 right Dec 02 06:42:52 if anyone of you guys does kernel hacking and needs git hosting space, i would donate it Dec 02 06:42:55 Xisdibik, I think emulators got pulled from the repos (unless I'm confused) Dec 02 06:43:06 johnx: theres a Sega emulator in it Dec 02 06:43:13 cehteh, we have git hosting. we need kernel hackers :) Dec 02 06:43:20 thought thanks for the offer Dec 02 06:43:30 well we need devices :) Dec 02 06:43:31 Xisdibik, in Extras or Extras-(devel|testing)? Dec 02 06:43:33 at least me Dec 02 06:44:06 cehteh, if you want to hack on kernel stuff for the N8x0, I can send you an N800 :) Dec 02 06:44:11 Dec 02 06:44:37 ok i am not that much kernel hacker, but just maintaining a vanilla kernel + maemo stuff merged in to stay on the top without any other invasive changes would be nice Dec 02 06:44:37 johnx: i thing testing Dec 02 06:45:05 and maybe then hist a deb repository with some kernel images .. encryption enabled, ipv6 (if it isnt already) and so on Dec 02 06:45:46 johnx: well so far i am not even sure if i will keep the n900 .. somewhat nice to see and watch while waiting for the device Dec 02 06:46:03 cehteh: Maemo kernel stuff is not legit, so we can't do that :p Dec 02 06:46:03 PID USER PR NI VIRT RES SHR S %CPU %MEM TIME+ COMMAND Dec 02 06:46:07 5529 arachnis 20 0 643m 131m 24m R 9999 3.4 823:40.88 chrome Dec 02 06:46:15 luke-jr: what? Dec 02 06:46:17 its GPL Dec 02 06:46:26 cehteh: and big companies think they're above GPL Dec 02 06:46:49 yeah .. no one succeeded with that Dec 02 06:46:59 Nokia's a little better, but not totally clean Dec 02 06:47:03 yes Dec 02 06:47:11 cehteh: few fail at ignoring Linux GPL Dec 02 06:47:22 but the very much depend on a n900 deveoper community Dec 02 06:47:40 cehteh: unfortunately, most of the developer community doesn't care Dec 02 06:47:40 when they start bashing them they can only loose ... and they know that Dec 02 06:47:45 I think N900 kernel is 100% legit tho Dec 02 06:48:16 cehteh: there's at most 10 people I've met that actually care Dec 02 06:48:19 i rather wonder why nokia doesnt host a kernel git Dec 02 06:48:53 well, with N900 kernel stuff, it's supposedly been merging to mainline... Dec 02 06:49:04 no idea how realistic that worked out Dec 02 06:49:10 because the sources are open and its easy to diff them against vanilla .. its just a *bit* pita to merge and maintian their changes if there are any Dec 02 06:49:40 honestly, Nokia made a lot of improvement on the Linux end with N900 now that I think of it Dec 02 06:49:50 but N8x0 are left in the dust Dec 02 06:50:11 i expect there are some changes .. but there is no black magic and even if its not going to be merged by linus the community should at least maintain their own public kernel repository Dec 02 06:50:56 of course there is more for a free phone than just a free kernel, but whatever is reachable should be done Dec 02 06:50:57 cehteh: Nokia had an open wifi driver developed for the N8x0 a while back Dec 02 06:51:09 that finally got put into mainline staging for 2.6.31 Dec 02 06:51:15 or maybe 2.6.30 Dec 02 06:51:24 strangely for a linux device, it seems the N8x0 didn't attract a huge kernel hacker community Dec 02 06:51:25 but it was removed from 2.6.32 due to not progressing Dec 02 06:51:26 for example i want btrfs and encryption soon Dec 02 06:51:44 cehteh: if you just want a free phone, OpenMoko seems the way to go ;) Dec 02 06:51:46 i know some people using then n800 Dec 02 06:51:59 johnx: bad experiences from Sharp et al? Dec 02 06:52:12 well i want a free useable phone .. and i am willing to make some compromises Dec 02 06:52:43 but having a free kernel is an requirement for sustainablility of the device Dec 02 06:52:47 luke-jr, Sharp was worse than negligent in working with the community. They were actively harmful, But at the same time, the Zaurii have a more recent kernel Dec 02 06:52:49 I'm willing to compromise hardware schematics ;) Dec 02 06:53:25 johnx: yeah, just saying maybe some of the guys who bought them said "never again" Dec 02 06:53:39 cehteh: IMO, free hardware support. Dec 02 06:53:55 cehteh: which Nokia actively refuses to provide for all models AFAIK Dec 02 06:54:09 in part, PowerVR and TI are to blame, of course. Dec 02 06:54:14 yes, prolly by some NDA's they had to sign :P Dec 02 06:54:14 luke-jr, very possible, but pretty much every zaurus has a more recent kernel than the N8x0 or 770 Dec 02 06:54:37 but at least they should do and support what they can do Dec 02 06:54:51 and so far it looks reasnonable good for the n900 Dec 02 06:54:57 PowerVR licenses the driver to TI who distributes to Nokia, if I understand correctly Dec 02 06:54:58 cehteh: BME is 100% Nokia, but they refuse to give specs or code Dec 02 06:55:01 but we (the community) have to push them Dec 02 06:55:40 luke-jr, BME is also not necessary, just for running a new kernel, right? Dec 02 06:55:49 johnx: of course it's necessary Dec 02 06:55:55 nobody buys a handheld to run on AC power Dec 02 06:55:59 s/BME/an open BME/ Dec 02 06:56:00 johnx meant: luke-jr, an open BME is also not necessary, just for running a new kernel, right? Dec 02 06:56:06 BME is actually dangerous and looking at the US law system nokia better dont let kids play with it :) Dec 02 06:56:35 johnx: mainline has clearly stated they will never merge pass-thru-to-blob-userland "drivers" Dec 02 06:56:37 while it would be nice to turn stolen n900 into bombs remotely :P Dec 02 06:57:05 cehteh: does the US law system differentiate between C code and ARM code? Dec 02 06:57:29 johnx: not to mention when the next ABI change comes around Dec 02 06:57:39 cehteh, chances of blowing up: relatively low. chances of damaging the battery: meh. Dec 02 06:58:06 chances of blowing up blindly reverse engineering a blob: relatively low Dec 02 06:58:20 chances of blowing up reading over well-commented C code: almost none Dec 02 06:58:30 if anyone figures out how to 'improve' the charging circruit in some dangerous way .. or only let the cpu overheat or the brightness LED's wear out (not to talk about the flash) then someone will certaily sue nokia for allowing that happen Dec 02 06:58:36 luke-jr, we can workaround the ABI stuff (the same way we do now). Can the 2.6.21 patches that support BME be applied to 2.6.3x? Dec 02 06:59:09 cehteh, nah. I don't really buy it. Think of all the people who bricked their Linksys routers :) Dec 02 06:59:44 I know Dec 02 07:00:03 since the kernel (including the blob loaders and control modules) are GPL it shoudl be possible to maintain them with an actual kernel Dec 02 07:00:05 I'll find a 0-day exploit in N900's kernel, remote into every N900 over GSM, and make them ALL blow up Dec 02 07:00:07 with more or less work Dec 02 07:00:24 someone just have to do that Dec 02 07:00:25 cehteh: N8x0 kernel is *not* GPL Dec 02 07:00:33 or rather, it should be, but we don't have code Dec 02 07:00:43 luke-jr, huh? to what part? Dec 02 07:00:47 well someone sue nokia them :P Dec 02 07:00:51 johnx: cx3110x's umac thing Dec 02 07:00:58 cehteh: nobody's sued nVidia Dec 02 07:01:20 and it can't be just anyone Dec 02 07:01:20 does nvidia ship devices with the blob preinstalled? Dec 02 07:01:24 we have a newer/better wifi driver anyways Dec 02 07:01:24 it needs to be a copyright holder Dec 02 07:01:27 cehteh: nope, irrelevant Dec 02 07:01:49 johnx: but no combination actually works yet Dec 02 07:02:08 johnx: also, last time I tried stlc45xx it didn't work Dec 02 07:02:11 p54spi was even worse Dec 02 07:02:20 well not exactly, bad practice yes, maybe not even compliant with the GPL but you dont get a GPL violation at first .. you admit violating the GPL by installing the nvidia driver by yourself Dec 02 07:02:38 cehteh: installing the driver is not violation; distributing it is Dec 02 07:02:51 yes Dec 02 07:02:59 sue the bastards! Dec 02 07:03:00 nVidia distributes it plenty Dec 02 07:03:08 I lack a copyright on Linux :( Dec 02 07:03:14 not to mention funds for a lawsuit Dec 02 07:03:15 oh, right Dec 02 07:03:32 *returns to spectating* Dec 02 07:03:38 rather linus unpolitical views Dec 02 07:04:19 anyways nvidia is bad, we know that Dec 02 07:04:23 Linus blocked merging a patch to refuse to load them :/ Dec 02 07:04:32 i dunno about the n8x0 kernel Dec 02 07:04:53 but for the n900 kernel we should at least to as much as is possible to maintain it freely Dec 02 07:05:14 yeah, should be a much better situation with the N900 Dec 02 07:05:24 especially with all the other systems sharing the OMAP3 processors Dec 02 07:05:32 n8x0 had no competition .. Dec 02 07:05:43 how do how do I sync an n900 with linux? Dec 02 07:05:47 with n900 they have a lot competition Dec 02 07:05:54 cehteh: they do? Dec 02 07:06:03 as 'smartphone' Dec 02 07:06:05 i put more hope on alternatives to Linus kernel, after Alan Kox self-dismissal. like linuz fors nad BSD/Viengoose Dec 02 07:06:11 cehteh: N900 isn't a smartphone Dec 02 07:06:23 even if nokia says so .. look at the forums Dec 02 07:06:43 lu Dec 02 07:06:45 people either buy it because its freer OR because they want a nice smartphone Dec 02 07:06:45 even Debian moved[slowly]to kFreeBSD Dec 02 07:06:58 cehteh: or the same reason they bought a N810... Dec 02 07:06:59 no one buys it because its a 'internet tablet' Dec 02 07:07:04 hmm Dec 02 07:07:09 brbrbr, moved? or you mean supported? Dec 02 07:07:35 i like N800. this just lack of good[small and robust enough, like HTC one]AUX IR keyboard Dec 02 07:07:36 well the n810 and so one didnt sold *that* well .. nokia expects to sell the n900 1000 times more Dec 02 07:08:01 cehteh: I'll probably move to OpenPandora Dec 02 07:08:01 brbrbr, is a bluetooth keyboard ok? Dec 02 07:08:23 and the users (that are we) have to make it clear to nokia that the 'free' is a important decision in buying their thing Dec 02 07:08:27 johnx yeah, but Squeeze maybe last Debian with linux naziware inside. wonder what shurtlleworth can do in THAT case ;) moving to Fedora ? :) Dec 02 07:08:47 What exactly should Nokia do with Maemo to crush all other mobile OSs. I'm reading up on it and it really doesn't seem that hard to do with Nokia's reach. Dec 02 07:08:48 cehteh: those of us who demand free are too few Dec 02 07:08:58 johnx, no its NOT ok. have size of 3x N800 and have BAD keys Dec 02 07:08:59 brbrbr, uh huh. right. link to the announcement on the debian mailing list? Dec 02 07:09:19 luke-jr: of users maybe .. but talk about developers .. Dec 02 07:09:22 rashed2020: Mobile OS ftl :) Dec 02 07:09:27 cehteh: developers too Dec 02 07:09:34 brbrbr, you mean the foldable ones? which IR keyboard are you thinking about? Dec 02 07:09:35 luke-jr: What do you mean? Dec 02 07:09:37 no, but kFreeBSD declared "mission critical", so Squeeze not out, before kFreeBSD was polished out too Dec 02 07:09:38 cehteh: they're always bashing me for being a "zealot" Dec 02 07:09:41 Is there any work around for the n810 for the flasher error "Error claiming USB interface: device or resource busy" ? Dec 02 07:09:52 i didnt seen much developers yet who look at maemo for closed sourced apps Dec 02 07:10:34 cehteh: no, tehy don't look FOR it, but they tolerate it Dec 02 07:10:40 i mean something, what HTC ship with premium version of old O2 smartphones. about 1.5x size of ordinary PC's mouse Dec 02 07:10:41 the ones who aim for a business target apple or android, maybe port their stuff Dec 02 07:10:44 Tyrant91101, uhm. which flasher version? which distro/kernel version? Dec 02 07:10:56 can anyone reccomend a relatively painless way of syncing my n900 up with my linux laptop, the magic oracle google, wasn't being fruitful. Dec 02 07:11:10 denniscollective: syncing what? Dec 02 07:11:30 johnx: flasher-3.0, trying to install diablo, on FC12 livecd Dec 02 07:11:49 Tyrant91101, might be worth trying flasher-3.5 Dec 02 07:11:54 denniscollective: rsync for files Dec 02 07:11:55 i tried HTC kbd get to work with N800, but no luck[out of patience bedore] Dec 02 07:12:10 is there any more to sync than files? :) Dec 02 07:12:16 Magic syncing calender stuff, cause its the future Dec 02 07:12:19 brbrbr, I don't even know what keyboard you're talking about...and the N800 doesn't have IR Dec 02 07:12:25 denniscollective: Git Dec 02 07:12:41 ldap Dec 02 07:12:42 git push calender.... Dec 02 07:12:46 hehe Dec 02 07:12:54 so do it.... "IN THE CLOUD" Dec 02 07:13:00 I still use Subversion for my PIM data Dec 02 07:13:09 though my latest calendar is git Dec 02 07:13:22 wow. Dec 02 07:13:42 johnx: thank you didnt knwo newer version was released. Since they have one for Win7 maybe I can avoid using that dreaded FC12 ;p Dec 02 07:13:50 denniscollective, not many good options right now I think. definitely not painless ones Dec 02 07:13:52 checkout git clone git://github.com/denniscollective/lifestyle.git Dec 02 07:14:29 cool, thanks everyone, thats unfortunate, but so is life. Dec 02 07:15:11 denniscollective, I think they might support google's implementation of exchange at some point. no announcement yet Dec 02 07:15:49 denniscollective: hire me to write a PIM suite and I'll make sure it's painless ;) Dec 02 07:16:29 I wish there were a convenient way for me to make my laptop, and phone play nice without letting google know, but I guess I should just surrender to the future/big brother Dec 02 07:16:32 there actually are PIM apps that should be able to sync to some degree, kinda I think Dec 02 07:16:51 luke-jr: what's your rate? Dec 02 07:16:52 denniscollective: seriously, git isn't *that* hard Dec 02 07:17:07 i know, I use it all day Dec 02 07:17:08 denniscollective: if I can GPL everything, I'll go down to $25/hr Dec 02 07:17:31 but I'm pretty busy with other work right now, so it might be a few months before I can really commit to it Dec 02 07:17:43 though it's supposed to be evolution data server on the device, so maybe it's just a question of getting the desktop to talk to it or muck around with the right files Dec 02 07:17:46 classy, when my website makes me a DOTCOM WEB3.0 BILLIONAIRE, I will finance it Dec 02 07:17:52 hehe Dec 02 07:18:09 sounds like we have similar ("not this moment") timeframes in mind Dec 02 07:18:15 yes. Dec 02 07:18:29 luke-jr: can you make git play nice with the pretty pim applets? Dec 02 07:18:56 i just got my n900 today, so I haven't used the command line much, so I'm not terribly aware of how its set u[ Dec 02 07:19:03 denniscollective: possibly, grab me a N900 and I'll see what I can do :p Dec 02 07:19:41 when the magick timeline works out... Dec 02 07:19:43 (my N810 doesn't have pim *anything*) Dec 02 07:22:37 ... is there a relatively painfree way for me to make the keyboard on my n900 dvorak, I don't want RSI. Dec 02 07:22:53 actually, if the device uses evolution data server, why *can't* we sync it...? Dec 02 07:23:08 denniscollective, err, ukeyboard maybe? Dec 02 07:23:08 denniscollective: RSI/dvorak/etc don't apply to handheld keyboards... Dec 02 07:23:18 I mean, yuo probably CAN Dec 02 07:23:31 but you're typing with your thumbs, not your full set of fingers Dec 02 07:23:51 if you want an optimized layout, it ain't going to be dvorak Dec 02 07:24:15 oh yeah, your right, one handed dvorak, then I'll only need to use 1 thumb. Dec 02 07:24:21 is javispedro a UKer? Dec 02 07:24:41 or euro for that matter Dec 02 07:24:43 johnx: it uses evolution internally? wow, it'd be nice to make this happy. Dec 02 07:25:30 yeah. so I think it might just be a question of ... exposing the filesystem to the desktop and letting the desktop handle it maybe? Dec 02 07:25:48 haven't played with eds at all, but now I'm curious, because I'd like the same thing Dec 02 07:26:21 ideally I'd like to just sync it to *everything* to my hosted server w/ LDAP/CalDAV/IMAP Dec 02 07:26:29 but one step at a time Dec 02 07:33:43 If anyone is interested in subtitles in the standard media player, i have an enhancement post made :D Dec 02 07:33:44 https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6464 Dec 02 07:33:46 Bug 6464: Support Subtitles in Media Player Dec 02 07:37:33 where is a repository for claws? Dec 02 07:37:51 or next question has garage a deb repository? Dec 02 07:39:45 voted Dec 02 07:57:59 Venomrush: awesome thanks :) Dec 02 07:58:14 and with that im off to catch some Zzzz's night all Dec 02 07:58:19 Xisdibik: how many did you find to change? Dec 02 07:58:27 mm i think like 5 Dec 02 07:58:37 i have the file on my desktop though Dec 02 08:04:42 mmm...vga video glasses getting down to $150 Dec 02 08:04:55 my wife would kill me if I started wearing those everywhere :D Dec 02 08:05:46 haha Dec 02 08:06:54 really thought. vga has to be the absolute *lowest* resolution for that kind of thing that'd be worth it at all, so it's pretty cool to have them hit $150. Just need one of those one-handed keyboards ... Dec 02 08:07:01 s/thought/though Dec 02 08:07:25 ive written a python lib for which i needed a qt frontend.. it displays a list of processes running and param associated with it.. But im a total newbie to qt with abosolutely no knowledge of it.. can any one please give me some sort of push with regard to a template where I can hook in my methods so that it can be displayed on n900... Dec 02 08:07:34 its kinda urgent as well Dec 02 08:07:36 please. Dec 02 08:08:02 wrapster, have you looked at qt designer? (I think that's the name) Dec 02 08:08:15 hmm Dec 02 08:08:47 tigert: hey Dec 02 08:08:51 how are you w/ html? Dec 02 08:08:55 johnx: yeah i have but i only have like a day to learn and script it out.. so kinda needed help onit.. Dec 02 08:08:59 i need something to draw lines onto a web page :) Dec 02 08:09:33 timeless_mbp: you thinking of drawing timezone lines, or lat/long or? Dec 02 08:10:59 timeless_mbp:

SAY AGAIN?

Dec 02 08:11:10 Xisdibik: no Dec 02 08:11:18 drawing lines from Nokia City to Real City Dec 02 08:11:28 :) Dec 02 08:11:28 as in a graph? Dec 02 08:11:31 yep Dec 02 08:11:35 timeless_mbp: ah ok Dec 02 08:11:51 tigert: see http://www.webwizardry.net/~timeless/n900/clock/n900.html#182 Dec 02 08:11:53 draw it in google maps and embed it? :) Dec 02 08:12:26 Nokia put Tokyo somewhere in the Pacific Ocean Dec 02 08:12:33 and Osaka Dec 02 08:12:39 yeah well Dec 02 08:12:47 let's not list all of the errors here right now :) Dec 02 08:12:51 the list is kinda long Dec 02 08:12:54 haha ;) Dec 02 08:13:13 * Xisdibik just hopes the pilot of his flight to tokyo in january doesnt have a n900 Dec 02 08:13:23 whats the 'windowmanager' in fremantle? can it be started standalone from the sdk? Dec 02 08:13:33 "ladies and gentlemen we will be landing in tokyo shortly *SPLASH* Dec 02 08:13:43 hehe Dec 02 08:13:54 Xisdibik: rather: "" Dec 02 08:14:00 .. microphone defect :P Dec 02 08:14:04 yea, forgot the end one, always do that ;) Dec 02 08:14:07 heh Dec 02 08:14:17 cehteh++ Dec 02 08:15:05 Xisdibik: wanna add kerguelen (#186) to the list of islands to move? Dec 02 08:15:09 it needs to move north Dec 02 08:15:23 i would if i had the file here Dec 02 08:15:26 hehe Dec 02 08:15:29 this netbook doesnt have office on it yet Dec 02 08:15:36 yeah don't worry Dec 02 08:15:38 as im reinstalling everything tomorrow once my new hdd arrives Dec 02 08:15:42 so any idea bout the windowmanager question? Dec 02 08:15:48 but basically it looks like most of the islands in the pacific aren't well placed Dec 02 08:15:56 cehteh: dunno what the final sdk has Dec 02 08:16:04 the original draft sdk didn't include the real wm Dec 02 08:16:09 because it was a secret :) Dec 02 08:16:09 timeless_mbp: indeed, guam looked off, but i didnt have time to check it fully Dec 02 08:16:21 i think its some component of the hildon desktop Dec 02 08:16:27 i think cocos is off Dec 02 08:16:34 but i wonder if it can be started standalone Dec 02 08:16:45 chatham is probably too :( Dec 02 08:16:47 * timeless_mbp sighs Dec 02 08:17:22 timeless_mbp: they chose where things were by playing darts on a map board. "Tokyo" *throw* "yea there works" ;) Dec 02 08:17:28 n900 appearing on xbox Dec 02 08:17:40 never knew nokia and microsoft have such good relation Dec 02 08:17:49 Xisdibik: definitely Dec 02 08:17:56 http://thenokiablog.com/2009/12/01/nokia-n900-xbox-360/ Dec 02 08:18:37 i'd assume we paid big for that Dec 02 08:19:15 lol Dec 02 08:19:33 Microsoft's strategy becomes more obvious every day :) Dec 02 08:19:43 here's my theory: Dec 02 08:19:43 ms is generally fairly friendly to people offering cash Dec 02 08:19:47 that whole SCO fiasco? Dec 02 08:19:50 luke-jr: it wasnt obvious from the start? ;) Dec 02 08:19:52 hey they advertised on our sites for long enough Dec 02 08:19:59 * timeless_mbp grumbles Dec 02 08:19:59 goal: get rid of SCO Dec 02 08:20:07 yepyep Dec 02 08:20:09 with SCO gone, Microsoft can produce *nix again Dec 02 08:20:16 no more repreives for them Dec 02 08:20:24 apple wasn't willing to give sun enough money :( Dec 02 08:21:11 I guess they sell ads to whoever wants to pay? Dec 02 08:21:17 i'd assume so Dec 02 08:21:21 wouldn't you? Dec 02 08:21:25 the amount of cash correlates to the warmness of the friendship? :) Dec 02 08:21:31 OMG I SEE SUN Dec 02 08:21:46 tigert, same as any real life relationship, right? :D Dec 02 08:22:47 johnx: well i know that. .but like i said i have no idea about that either... so the simpleset way i though was just to create an icon using qt ... where the base file will say soemthing like this "pyton " when you click that icon terminal opens up and the script runs Dec 02 08:23:05 johnx: I guess some relationships work like that :) Dec 02 08:23:13 ...but here's an interesting one: Microsoft advertises bing on google, but google doesn't advertise on bing :) Dec 02 08:23:35 wrapster, hmm? Dec 02 08:23:42 * Xisdibik will pay 500,000 USD to whoever will be his friend first ;) Dec 02 08:24:23 dont all jump on it at once :P Dec 02 08:24:24 * suihkulokki thinks nokia outsourced marketing to someone and microsoft outsourced selling ad spots to someone Dec 02 08:24:32 lol Dec 02 08:24:43 wrapster, I'm probably not the person to ask about qt. I just suggested qt designer because I'd heard of it before Dec 02 08:24:57 ok Dec 02 08:25:01 suihkulokki, someone with a sense of irony :) Dec 02 08:25:38 * johnx sleeps Dec 02 08:25:39 so neither company actually is being aware that they are advertizing on "competitors" sphere Dec 02 08:26:00 (possibly the ad agency and spot reseller is the same company...) Dec 02 08:26:05 * Xisdibik sleeps too Dec 02 08:29:21 why is microsoft promoting maemo? does that mean they know wm suck? Dec 02 08:30:06 johnx: why should google advertise? Dec 02 08:30:06 everyone knows that and they have all the more reason to know that - they are the ones making it :) Dec 02 08:30:34 suihkulokki: didn't ms outsource selling ads to yahoo? Dec 02 08:31:03 (nokia outsources marketing regionally) Dec 02 08:46:15 hi all, i just received my n900 today. it's looking good :) Dec 02 08:46:31 does the mic work and it doesn't go into reboot loops? Dec 02 08:46:52 :), it seems to be working fine :) Dec 02 08:47:10 congrats, you might have a non-foobared n900 :) Dec 02 08:47:15 is that a common problem with the n900? Dec 02 08:47:33 there's been some batches that have some issues it seem Dec 02 08:47:35 s Dec 02 08:47:51 mine works fine Dec 02 08:48:24 i hope mine is fine 2 ::) Dec 02 08:48:55 can you recoment sites for me , where to find the cool stuff for the n900, Stskeeps Dec 02 08:49:06 maemo.org, obviously :) Dec 02 08:49:10 :) Dec 02 08:49:12 and.... Dec 02 08:49:12 talk.maemo.org is a big discussion place Dec 02 08:49:21 and maemo.nokia.com Dec 02 08:49:41 k Dec 02 08:50:04 i know ruby is working on the n800, with i also got, Dec 02 08:50:15 does that mean it will also run on n900 Dec 02 08:50:24 i mean , are packeges interchangable Dec 02 08:50:27 ? Dec 02 08:50:45 sorry for my terrrible english btw Dec 02 08:50:47 mm, not always Dec 02 08:50:59 can't recall if ruby was ported to n900 yet Dec 02 08:51:22 that my fav prog language ... Dec 02 08:51:47 it would be nice if i can work on my phone if i wanted to :) Dec 02 08:52:01 i think i fucked w/ my n900 too muc Dec 02 08:52:05 how do i give it a full on reset/reboot Dec 02 08:52:14 :) Dec 02 08:52:16 wont get on the net Dec 02 08:52:18 wont charge via usb Dec 02 08:52:27 wont work w/ t-mo gsm Dec 02 08:52:33 wont work w/ 3g Dec 02 08:52:41 asidjazz: Dec 02 08:52:43 ~flashing Dec 02 08:52:45 extra, extra, read all about it, flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware Dec 02 08:52:48 if i leave it alone and pick it up itll say too many apps open .. no apps will be open Dec 02 08:53:07 mischa_: My apt-cache shows ruby1.8 available Dec 02 08:53:14 cool!!! Dec 02 08:53:17 yep, ruby is there Dec 02 08:53:24 damn, did not look at it yet Dec 02 08:53:27 it just arrived Dec 02 08:53:33 that is so perfect Dec 02 08:53:43 hey py python can't find osso. (eg import osso fails) what am I missing? Dec 02 08:54:18 mece: python-osso package? Dec 02 08:54:44 stskeeps, I have that. Dec 02 08:54:54 what sources list should i use Dec 02 08:55:07 i cant find ruby if i apt-cache search it Dec 02 08:56:19 if got the following catalogi Dec 02 08:56:34 nokia-apps Dec 02 08:56:39 software-updates Dec 02 08:56:45 mame extras Dec 02 08:56:53 maemo extras Dec 02 08:57:00 Stskeeps: hmm should i do USA variant or Global release? Dec 02 08:57:02 ruby is probably in extras-devel but be careful about adding it as you might trash your device Dec 02 08:57:07 asidjazz: up to you :P Dec 02 08:57:12 * Stskeeps can't remember difference Dec 02 08:57:13 :) Dec 02 08:57:16 ill do US Dec 02 08:57:27 flasher is your friend :) Dec 02 08:57:51 you have the uri for me? Dec 02 08:58:42 ~extras Dec 02 08:58:43 rumour has it, extras is http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras Dec 02 08:59:05 hehe Dec 02 08:59:14 ~extra-devel Dec 02 08:59:29 ~extras-devel Dec 02 08:59:31 from memory, extras-devel is http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras#Extras-devel Dec 02 09:01:00 the only issue w/ flashing is i cannot fully charge the phone and it wants to die Dec 02 09:02:37 why can't you charge? Dec 02 09:03:17 says charging then i unplug the charger, back to dead again Dec 02 09:06:43 any1 have any issues charging your n900 via usb? Dec 02 09:07:46 some people have problems with it .. see forums Dec 02 09:08:02 did you set it into 'pc tansfer mode' ... if not do so Dec 02 09:08:16 asidjazz: usb charger i have no issue with, sometimes i do with pc Dec 02 09:08:18 and a normal usb port provides less current than the charger Dec 02 09:08:35 but might be a hardware problem as well Dec 02 09:09:15 Stskeeps: what do you mean w/ pc Dec 02 09:09:28 like, plugged into a pc to charge :P Dec 02 09:09:47 ah and what is hte issue you hvae Dec 02 09:09:59 (more specifically) Dec 02 09:10:24 asidjazz: well, at that point, that it didn't really charge that much Dec 02 09:10:42 hello Dec 02 09:10:47 were you able to tell if it charged at all? Dec 02 09:12:04 whoa im able to access the n900 HD w/out it on? Dec 02 09:12:18 asidjazz: HD? Dec 02 09:12:29 asidjazz: the n900 is alive when you charge Dec 02 09:12:31 it just acts dead Dec 02 09:12:32 asidjazz: hard drive, high definition, something else? Dec 02 09:12:42 the drive Dec 02 09:13:11 asidjazz: I suppose that if you turn it totally off, with power button, no. Dec 02 09:13:21 ok, just installed ruby. nice!!! Dec 02 09:13:27 But not sure. Dec 02 09:13:35 if it's charging, it is usually alive :P Dec 02 09:13:35 Lynoure: its totally off Dec 02 09:13:57 what are ya gonna do w/ ruby mischa_ Dec 02 09:14:17 Stskeeps: i wonder if now that its off .. its actually charging for real Dec 02 09:14:21 Stskeeps: yup, missed the charging bit. :) Dec 02 09:14:24 ill leave it alone for 20-30mins andfind out Dec 02 09:14:26 it my main progr language Dec 02 09:14:46 mischa_: i like ruby Dec 02 09:15:01 only issue is if you write something in ruby ppl are gonna need to install ruby to run it Dec 02 09:15:07 if i com up with a good idae and i am not in the prox of a computer i can make a prototype on my phone hahahaha Dec 02 09:15:30 ruby is my main language Dec 02 09:15:34 i love it Dec 02 09:15:51 yep Dec 02 09:16:00 it should by n there by default :) Dec 02 09:16:29 does hte ruby package have gtk support Dec 02 09:16:41 also sharing an app means sharing the source to that app Dec 02 09:16:49 http://site.realitybites.eu/content/nokia_download Dec 02 09:17:27 that is for 810, but that will probably work on the n900 also Dec 02 09:17:45 it also have ruby 1.8.7 Dec 02 09:17:57 -p71 Dec 02 09:19:06 what is it Dec 02 09:19:10 gtk+ruby? Dec 02 09:19:20 so then the package forthe n900 doesnt suppor gtk? Dec 02 09:20:12 asidjazz: yes, maemo ruby gtk/hildon bindings Dec 02 09:28:13 how do i zoom Dec 02 09:28:15 in photos? Dec 02 09:28:23 ah got it Dec 02 09:33:09 Hi everyone, have a question. I just got done with configuring and installing apps for my n900. I wanna do a backup now. The built in backup tool seems to only backup the "Application List". I want to backup the actual applications. Cause all app .install files simply point to the package download (linux thing). But what if at the time of restore, i had no internet or the package i want is no longer there....? Dec 02 09:34:22 shouldnt be too hard to redownload all the applications once u have the list Dec 02 09:34:59 Sai_Mon12: the backup does list the .deb that is installed... you can back them up manually based on the list... even to somewhere else than your N900. Dec 02 09:36:41 does the n900 install .debs? Dec 02 09:37:46 Sai_Mon12: yah, it's Debian based. Dec 02 09:37:47 Sai_Mon12: yes Dec 02 09:38:46 hi Dec 02 09:39:09 hi Dec 02 09:39:18 while installing scratchbox on ubuntu i get following error Dec 02 09:39:25 great. I'll conduct a backup. then go through the list to download the .debs manually on my PC. reason y am worried about this. is sometimes packages are taken off. like the snes emulator fo instance Dec 02 09:39:25 on my host system i'm using ppp0 to get into internet. What changes must be done, that scratchbox uses this connection= Dec 02 09:39:28 Get:2 http://scratchbox.org maemo5-sdk/main Packages gzip: stdin: not in gzip format Dec 02 09:43:23 * RST38h moos at the moon Dec 02 09:44:52 can i add the host connection to scratchbox? Dec 02 09:45:36 hmm it seems that charging it for 30mins while off charged it a little bit Dec 02 09:46:13 still alot slower than plugging it into a wall Dec 02 09:48:27 Sai_Mon12: http://kmandla.wordpress.com/2007/07/24/howto-download-packages-and-dependencies-for-offline-installation/ is for ubuntu, but could be easily modified for N900 Dec 02 09:55:23 Any C++ wizards out there? =) Dec 02 09:55:46 mhm about? Dec 02 09:56:03 About possibility of instantiating a template with function names Dec 02 09:56:17 I.e. I want to supply two function names when instantiating a class template Dec 02 09:57:11 as in template class foo { .. ? Dec 02 09:57:22 yeah Dec 02 09:57:38 where class foo calls Function() somewhere inside Dec 02 09:57:44 wont work, at least not easily Dec 02 09:57:58 you need some dispatcher, binder, functor or whatever there Dec 02 09:57:59 * RST38h knew that #defines were superiod after all :) Dec 02 09:58:05 superior Dec 02 09:58:09 hehe yes Dec 02 09:58:20 i stopped using C++ years ago and back to C := Dec 02 09:58:30 it's just a bigger gun to shoot at your leg :) Dec 02 09:58:44 pretty much the same here, I ignore all these features normally Dec 02 09:58:55 for C i can give you an example how to dispatch on strings :P Dec 02 09:59:12 nah, this I can do =) Dec 02 09:59:18 * timeless_mbp cries Dec 02 10:01:40 anyone know where the osso python module is? ive got python-osso installed but it still cant find module osso Dec 02 10:02:38 on device or scratchbox? Dec 02 10:02:43 device Dec 02 10:04:13 the annoying part is that it works on the other device, but i cant find whats different Dec 02 10:11:17 morning Dec 02 10:14:10 Stskeeps: when do i get a newer version of Mer? :) Dec 02 10:14:34 oh, right, was supposed to make a new image today Dec 02 10:14:48 * jaem wants his Mer fix as well Dec 02 10:14:57 what're we at these days, anyway? Dec 02 10:15:05 0.17testing3 Dec 02 10:15:08 0.17almostthere? Dec 02 10:15:08 oh Dec 02 10:15:09 lol Dec 02 10:15:24 last I checked it was at 0.16.99999999 Dec 02 10:15:26 jaem: have you played w/ the map web page? :) Dec 02 10:15:38 timeless_mbp, which one? Dec 02 10:15:41 it's a fun game Dec 02 10:16:12 http://www.webwizardry.net/~timeless/n900/clock/n900.html or a variant Dec 02 10:17:04 timeless_mbp, heh, but what's the point? error-checking? Dec 02 10:17:18 laughing at someone's dart throwing? Dec 02 10:17:32 corrected.html has a version where i've moved a bunch of cities Dec 02 10:17:35 you'd think they could have gotten it right from the get-go... I mean, most of these cities have been around for a bit longer than the development cycle Dec 02 10:17:36 god i love some lectures... EJB lecutre (about developing ejb's, not setting it up or anything) and people are asking about how the HTTP protocol works and how webservers load balance >_< Dec 02 10:17:38 there are quite a few more to move Dec 02 10:17:49 wow... Dec 02 10:17:53 fail Dec 02 10:18:00 jaem: search for caracas Dec 02 10:18:03 frals_: occasionally i lose my faith in academia Dec 02 10:18:06 it's one of my more recent favorites Dec 02 10:18:17 * jaem *facepalms* Dec 02 10:18:41 Stskeeps: yeah.. this is just.. >_< Dec 02 10:18:46 jaem: did you find it? :) Dec 02 10:18:52 yeah Dec 02 10:18:56 hey all, i seem to have made a small mistake. I tried making a backup, using the backup tool on the n900. i chose to save it on the onboard memory. thinking it would just make the one file.....it didnt. for some reason now i have duplicates of the folders. for instance Audio Clips, Video Clips, etc.....and it won't let me delete the duplicates Dec 02 10:19:11 jaem: well, it's in a Latin land, that's what counts, right? :) Dec 02 10:21:31 so... i've got a problem... Dec 02 10:21:42 how do i manage files which don't live in LC_MESSAGES? :) Dec 02 10:22:06 that's basically: 'map', 'maps', 'browser' Dec 02 10:23:14 timeless_mbp, I've been fighting with QtDBus since Sunday afternoon :/ Dec 02 10:23:16 finally got it solved Dec 02 10:23:21 cool Dec 02 10:23:29 I asked a friendly Troll, and he cleared it up in about 2 minutes Dec 02 10:23:30 lol Dec 02 10:23:41 sigh... wasted time Dec 02 10:24:01 timeless_mbp, any idea why the map fails this badly? Dec 02 10:24:23 i plead the 5th? Dec 02 10:24:36 hrm, probably the wrong one Dec 02 10:24:44 but how about "it'd be bad if i were to publicly speculate" Dec 02 10:25:48 -snerk- Dec 02 10:26:20 fair enough - it's funny enough without an explanation Dec 02 10:26:21 :) Dec 02 10:27:18 anyway, if you want to help, please use corrected instead of n900 Dec 02 10:27:39 you can enable coordinate gathering by removing a 'return;' line from the html or generator Dec 02 10:28:12 timeless_mbp, I'm juggling exams, assignments, and this research project at the moment, so I can't right now Dec 02 10:28:23 but I'll take a look if I get a chance Dec 02 10:28:40 :) Dec 02 10:39:40 RAGE Dec 02 10:40:18 for the first time, I'm a bit pissed at this delay. stupid shop. shouldn't promise devices on 1st of december and then change the date to "unknown". -.- Dec 02 10:40:27 Shapeshifter, :( Dec 02 10:40:28 heh Dec 02 10:40:47 Stskeeps, does Mer 0.17testing3 have N810 images now? Dec 02 10:41:12 no, x86 images broke so Dec 02 10:41:23 see, this is why Nokia never makes announcements about future projects Dec 02 10:41:35 they better not >.> Dec 02 10:41:38 broken promises incite rage Dec 02 10:41:43 people would go completely bananas Dec 02 10:41:48 mobs with torches Dec 02 10:41:52 indeed Dec 02 10:42:02 mgedmin, liqtorch? :P Dec 02 10:42:21 is there a liqmob? Dec 02 10:42:27 I don't know Dec 02 10:42:33 somebody tell lcuk to get working! Dec 02 10:43:53 mgedmin, maybe an N900 remote to a onedotzero-style projection of waiting customers' rage? Dec 02 10:44:04 oh wait Dec 02 10:44:09 -snerk- Dec 02 10:46:13 go0od morning Dec 02 10:46:21 morning Dec 02 10:46:37 good morning Dec 02 10:47:17 should be only two days now.... I should get my N900 on friday :) Dec 02 10:50:36 ooh Dec 02 10:50:40 woo Dec 02 10:50:44 my rocket science finally became helpful Dec 02 10:50:45 CoreFusion-, have fun :) Dec 02 10:50:54 timeless_mbp, oh? Dec 02 10:51:12 jaem: i've been puzzling how to deliver replacements for files that are not .mo files Dec 02 10:51:17 and it finally dawned upon me Dec 02 10:51:28 i think, anyway Dec 02 10:51:41 i need to check to make sure it does the right thing tm Dec 02 10:51:51 actually, it probably isn't going to work Dec 02 10:51:58 * timeless_mbp looks at the map carefully Dec 02 10:52:54 OMG..... http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=35612 Dec 02 10:53:08 wtf is wrong with people? Dec 02 10:53:38 bored? :) Dec 02 10:53:45 CoreFusion-: their credit card handling system needs a beating, for sure Dec 02 10:53:52 yeah Dec 02 10:54:20 well and people who order a non existing product pre-paied need to be beaten too .. Dec 02 10:54:41 who's ordering what now? Dec 02 10:55:26 Why is it nonexisting? Dec 02 10:55:44 mece: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=35612 Dec 02 10:55:49 dunno how its called in english but i ordered by 'nachname' means i have to pay the delivery sevice in cash when it comes Dec 02 10:56:23 It's called Cash on Delivery :P Dec 02 10:56:42 rashed2020: non-available then .. well at the time people pre-ordered it was virtually non existing, except for preproduction development samples Dec 02 10:56:59 bbl Dec 02 11:00:19 hey anyone know the difference between invisishield and durasec screen protectors? Dec 02 11:05:03 Dantonic: the durasec doesn't fit right, iirc. Dec 02 11:05:11 it's too big. Dec 02 11:05:24 how do i port python app to maemo Dec 02 11:05:24 any1 here successful flashed an n900 Dec 02 11:05:42 "suitable usb device not found, waiting" Dec 02 11:05:59 i have a py app now... but how do i port it Dec 02 11:06:04 Shapeshifter, I'm concerned about the touch sensitivity after application of an invisishield... Dec 02 11:06:07 asidjazz: what OS? Dec 02 11:06:15 and 32 or 64 bit? Dec 02 11:06:25 asidjazz, yep, once Dec 02 11:06:32 on Windows Dec 02 11:06:36 haven't tried Linux flasher yet Dec 02 11:07:06 asidjazz: there's a big thread on talk.maemo.org somewhere on this issue Dec 02 11:08:50 Dantonic: from all I read, *touch* sensitivity is almost unaffected when applying almost any protector, while moving the stylus around (swiping, painting) is affected especially by the invisible-shield rubbery type of protector. Dec 02 11:09:26 I will probably get myself a multipack of "clear" protectors. Those which are rather scratchable (but I'll keep the phone in a pouch anyway), but which are thin and really invisible. Dec 02 11:09:34 I can always change it if it's gone bad. Dec 02 11:09:35 wrapster, you can just run the py app. Dec 02 11:09:41 Shapeshifter, well I've never used a protector, so I have no idea what they feel like or what to choose... Dec 02 11:10:02 ah sounds interesting, any particular brand you use? Dec 02 11:10:05 Dantonic: me neither, but you get the idea from the videos. thos "military" types are rubbery and sticky Dec 02 11:10:06 I'm planning on a pouch as well Dec 02 11:10:55 Dantonic: nah. I think I'd like a boxwave cleartouch crystal clear Dec 02 11:11:03 but boxwave doesn't offer them yet. Dec 02 11:11:20 boxwave when the come out with csomething Dec 02 11:11:27 http://www.boxwave.com/community/request/index.htm you could vote here if you like. The antiglare is supposed to be great Dec 02 11:11:54 though on such a dense-pixel device it might actually impair the picture quality Dec 02 11:11:59 found a place t o grab up a screen protector from dont know how good it is but better than scratching the screen Dec 02 11:12:01 so I won't get that. Dec 02 11:12:05 rashed2020, *sigh* don't know whether to laugh or cry when I see that thread... Dec 02 11:12:15 hi Dec 02 11:12:20 already voted Shapeshifter Dec 02 11:12:22 well with the N800 I never used a screen protector, and I kept it pretty scratch free Dec 02 11:12:40 except for the right side where the scroll menu is.. some scratches due to stylus Dec 02 11:12:57 mece: Meh. Feeling anything towards it means you still care too much about stupid people. Dec 02 11:13:15 Does anyone have a Maemo device on Tmobile (USA) ? Dec 02 11:13:27 ditto rashed2020 Dec 02 11:13:43 whats tmo like i got no plan yet Dec 02 11:13:59 I'm giving up. I'm giving the n900 a new arrival date of January 13th. Dec 02 11:14:03 hope that is safe. Dec 02 11:14:09 else I'm going mad. Dec 02 11:14:17 I think they're alright. I live in downtown philly so I'm pretty covered. I just wanna know if the phones are NAT'd. Dec 02 11:14:20 lol you selling them? Dec 02 11:14:27 DangerMaus: no, I want one Dec 02 11:14:39 lol Dec 02 11:14:42 but as accuarate as the dates are, anyone can set them, right? Dec 02 11:14:42 Shapeshifter: Someone I know ordered it and got it in 3 or so days. Dec 02 11:14:50 rashed2020: not in Switzerland -.- Dec 02 11:14:54 Owwwh Dec 02 11:15:06 ahh yes he's in .ch Dec 02 11:15:07 You guys should be getting them before us, though. Nokia likes Europe more. Dec 02 11:15:35 rashed2020, got it in bout 24h Dec 02 11:15:50 they said it should be here yesterday. even when people called in. Now they say they didn't get the batch from the supplier and don't know anything about when it's going to arrive. Well at least it's "don't know" now, and not "tomorrow, for sure" -.- Dec 02 11:15:53 DangerMaus: Where'd you order it from? Dec 02 11:16:05 rashed2020: nah, the US got it first Dec 02 11:16:07 by a mile Dec 02 11:16:12 nokiausa monday got it tuesday at bout noon Dec 02 11:16:12 Yeah, I can see that now :P Dec 02 11:16:21 I think only australia and canada will come after Europe Dec 02 11:16:28 an places like zimbabwe >.> Dec 02 11:16:31 DangerMaus: I'm still undecided on whether I should get it or not. I have a G1. Dec 02 11:16:46 Good Morning Dec 02 11:16:56 Everyone knows Nigeria and *NOT* Zimbabwe have the newest technology. Dec 02 11:16:59 im function yesterday today on wifi Dec 02 11:17:05 and skype Dec 02 11:17:42 hello! Dec 02 11:17:54 it nicely locks on to any and every open wifi Dec 02 11:17:54 I'll be using 3G, mostly. Dec 02 11:17:55 me2 Dec 02 11:18:13 but not on tmo yet didnt want a plan and no phone Dec 02 11:18:21 * SpeedEvil found cheap deal in the UK. Dec 02 11:18:29 (for connection) Dec 02 11:18:33 hooray for processing email Dec 02 11:18:39 3G seems battery intensive for data. Dec 02 11:19:07 Wifi is battery intensive for everything. Dec 02 11:19:16 Lynoure: pretty much unless you're close to the reciever Dec 02 11:19:36 rashed2020, and tmo seems to have basic data in the woods where i play unlike att Dec 02 11:19:38 I want ot make gtkLabel as link. I use pango markup languageand tag 'a'. When i run my app in maemo, i have error, which says, that "unknown tag a". ??? Dec 02 11:19:44 what is most battery sensitive is using the device - it goes to sleep modes of various depths when idle Dec 02 11:20:27 DangerMaus: Again, I live downtown :P Dec 02 11:20:36 City life, bebeh! Dec 02 11:20:37 has anyone noted a difference between 3G and GPRS? Dec 02 11:20:47 i live downtown too but ploay in the woods Dec 02 11:20:50 tigert: You'd have to be delusional to not notice a difference. Dec 02 11:20:53 in battery life btw? my N95 battery appreciated non-3G Dec 02 11:20:56 Oh :P Dec 02 11:21:03 Yeah, I still see a difference. Dec 02 11:21:09 yeah Dec 02 11:21:19 edge is just way slow :/ Dec 02 11:21:24 Is there a /proc or /sys node with battery state? Dec 02 11:21:35 like email vs full blown broadband Dec 02 11:21:40 lol Dec 02 11:21:42 Just so I get this straight, Maemo is proper proper Linux? Dec 02 11:21:46 i flashed my n900 and my bookmarks are still there Dec 02 11:21:54 Just with a different WM and DE? Dec 02 11:22:02 yup Dec 02 11:22:07 linux debian + gtk hildon Dec 02 11:22:15 I find that insanely hard to believe. Dec 02 11:22:19 That's just such a cool idea. Dec 02 11:22:20 rashed2020: yes Dec 02 11:22:34 well, modified debian Dec 02 11:22:34 just dont install pkgs to /usr Dec 02 11:22:42 maemo is NOT debian Dec 02 11:22:49 So the debian ARM repos are good? Dec 02 11:22:53 apt-get dist-upgrade will not be something you do Dec 02 11:22:57 rashed2020: no, but easy debian exists Dec 02 11:23:03 it uses dpkg and debian stuff quite heavily Dec 02 11:23:10 rashed2020: I'm ssh'd into my n900, with 3 or 4 browsers running. Nice. Dec 02 11:23:11 but it is not debian Dec 02 11:23:22 but yes, it is as "linux" as anything Dec 02 11:23:23 rashed2020: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=34550&highlight=easy+debian Dec 02 11:23:46 rashed2020: so debian arm repositories wont work Dec 02 11:23:47 but Dec 02 11:23:54 anyone had success compiling additional kernel modules for the n900 kernel? (the 2.6.28-20094102.3+0m5 being the latest, I presume) Dec 02 11:24:02 there was some package that let you run them wiht a chrooted debian easily Dec 02 11:24:13 its linux tigert Dec 02 11:24:16 kynde: mashiara was working on it Dec 02 11:24:21 and it uses alot of debian distro functionality Dec 02 11:24:22 tigert, thx for your droid sans mono tip for terminal! Dec 02 11:24:28 making it debian distro of linux Dec 02 11:24:29 on a phone Dec 02 11:24:38 tigert: Yeah. That looks like what's in Stskeeps's link. Easy Debian. Dec 02 11:24:39 Stskeeps: yeah, I stumbled on to your irc log about it and seems like he had similar issues. Dec 02 11:24:40 kynde: yes and no, Dec 02 11:24:56 mashiara: oh, you're here, too, good. Dec 02 11:24:58 Aw man I can't wait to get this phone. Dec 02 11:25:00 asidjazz: let me rephrase: it is not necessarily debian compatible Dec 02 11:25:11 I was THIS close to getting the N810 but backed out cuz it wasn't a phone. Dec 02 11:25:16 ie, dependencies etc wont necessarily work Dec 02 11:25:22 between maemo and debian Dec 02 11:25:24 Just say Debian based :P Dec 02 11:25:26 kynde: I'm kinda busy now, if flandry is here he has the steps I took to compile joydev.ko for him Dec 02 11:25:32 stuff is packaged differently here and there Dec 02 11:25:38 zaheer_: :) Dec 02 11:25:54 rashed2020: yeah, easydebian, i havent tried it myself, but maybe I should Dec 02 11:26:03 tigert, also noticed i could make it white on black! Dec 02 11:26:18 I wanna make it neon green on black! Dec 02 11:26:27 With transparency :P Dec 02 11:26:31 zaheer_: sure :) Dec 02 11:26:34 wtf is flashing even for Dec 02 11:26:35 And Compiz effects. Dec 02 11:26:37 nothing is removed off my phone Dec 02 11:26:39 mashiara: ack. the maemo 5.0 kernel guide wiki appears to have some flaws. it uses kernel extraversion -maemo2 but I have -omap1 in my device. Dec 02 11:26:41 zaheer_: but that wasnt so hard to discover, wasnt it? :) Dec 02 11:26:44 i still have all my contacts and freakin files in my home dir Dec 02 11:26:48 wow! Dec 02 11:26:52 asidjazz: Just the system files? Dec 02 11:26:54 tigert, to be honest, i never bothered to check the font menu Dec 02 11:26:54 asidjazz: if you want to remove some config stuff, you need to flash eMMC too Dec 02 11:26:58 asidjazz: your contacts are in emmc Dec 02 11:26:59 oh eMMC Dec 02 11:27:04 what else is in eMMC Dec 02 11:27:04 asidjazz: it's to avoid you shooting yourself in the foot too much Dec 02 11:27:09 besides bookmarks and contacts Dec 02 11:27:12 management decided the embarrassment that is clock should be ... well, addressed Dec 02 11:27:12 I dont know if emmc flashable images are public though Dec 02 11:27:13 what about installed apps Dec 02 11:27:14 asidjazz: your files, etc Dec 02 11:27:21 kynde: yes, it's kinda dated... leave extraversion empty and the Makefile will set it to -omap1 Dec 02 11:27:26 were those removed Dec 02 11:27:30 asidjazz: apps you lose when you flash Dec 02 11:27:35 k good Dec 02 11:27:41 but restore a backup, it restores your instaled apps list, and repositories Dec 02 11:27:51 so you can "restore applications" wiht app manager later Dec 02 11:28:14 why do we call this flashing Dec 02 11:28:21 kynde: be warned though, so far I have not managed to compile working nf_conntrack for example (for the stock kernel, now my N900 is running a custom one...) Dec 02 11:28:25 asidjazz: cos you actually 'flash' the internal NAND Dec 02 11:28:27 we should call it "kinda not do much at all" Dec 02 11:28:33 emmc has /home/user (ext2 iirc) and /home/user/MyDocs Dec 02 11:28:36 mashiara: ok. nf_conntrack is what I'm working on, too. Dec 02 11:28:41 MyDocs is the usb-storage partition that is FAT Dec 02 11:28:44 I'm sorta confused about PyMaemo. Is it included by default or not? Dec 02 11:29:02 asidjazz: it flashes the root partition and bootloader and other stuff Dec 02 11:29:04 kynde: oh.... then see http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=383608#post383608 and v Dec 02 11:29:08 kynde: and https://garage.maemo.org/projects/mobilehotspot/ Dec 02 11:29:15 the custom works ok? I mean, the phone and related modules are ok and intact? Didn't have the guts to flash it. Dec 02 11:29:51 flashing it should replace the entire phone w/ a stock default image Dec 02 11:29:53 ... just yet, that is, since I haven't back shit up yet. I'm well acquainted with kernel and modules, especially on a n810, but the issues I'm facing with the conntrack seem odd. Dec 02 11:30:12 asidjazz: flashing wont replace memory cards Dec 02 11:30:14 this is more getting naked in a trenchcoat .. Dec 02 11:30:16 kynde: you can flash just the kernel without messing with the rootfs Dec 02 11:30:24 asidjazz: thats what the eMMC is, its just soldered in though Dec 02 11:30:26 but its for your data Dec 02 11:30:33 and you can extract the stock kernel from the Fiasco (combined kernel and rootfs) image Dec 02 11:30:44 asidjazz: when you flash emmc, it should be stock Dec 02 11:30:44 :P Dec 02 11:31:20 mashiara: I know. It's just that I really would've liked to just add the necessary and new modules. I'm a little baffled as to why the nf_conntrack (and even x_tables) don't work if I build them in scratchbox. Dec 02 11:31:31 mm yea cnat find an emmc image Dec 02 11:31:31 ohwell Dec 02 11:31:34 tnx for hte help guys Dec 02 11:31:40 kynde: odd issues with conntrack, yes! I was thinking I was going crazy or maybe my SB was messing stuff up Dec 02 11:31:41 asidjazz: tablets-dev.nokia.com? Dec 02 11:31:42 oh yea Dec 02 11:31:45 there is the emmc image too Dec 02 11:31:53 asidjazz: its in the same spot Dec 02 11:31:55 if its not that public and supported Stskeeps i dont wanna risk bricking this thing Dec 02 11:31:58 asidjazz: http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N900.php Dec 02 11:31:58 kynde: I have no idea why it goes wrong and I'm not really a kernel hacker Dec 02 11:32:06 i was reading http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware#Flashing_the_eMMC_in_the_N900 Dec 02 11:32:13 kynde: but if you figure it out I will be very happy Dec 02 11:32:14 oh nice Dec 02 11:32:32 "RX-51_2009SE_1.2009.41-1.VANILLA_PR_EMMC_MR0_ARM.bin" Dec 02 11:32:32 kynde: mainly so that the mobilehotspot project can be used also by the timid ones Dec 02 11:32:37 asidjazz: i highly doubt flashing voids warranty Dec 02 11:32:37 :P Dec 02 11:32:44 mashiara: I'll keep trying, but I'm getting more and more confident that I'm forced to flash the kernel, too. Dec 02 11:32:45 no way im dealing w/ that right now :) Dec 02 11:32:49 lol Dec 02 11:33:13 kynde: really, flashing the kernel is not a big issue but it's a bit of a hassle Dec 02 11:33:43 asidjazz: why would you want to flash unless there were an update anyway? Dec 02 11:34:06 mashiara: yeah, no worries there, I was on suspicious about the phone/gsm stuff, incase there were some closed / binary-only modules I'd have to worry about. Dec 02 11:34:09 Does Maemo do some voodoo with Python apps so they all run under one interpreter? Or is it one interpreter/app? Dec 02 11:34:12 kynde: and in harmatten running unsigned kernels while possible is not really an option for the general user Dec 02 11:34:13 cehteh: hi Dec 02 11:34:26 mashiara: shit, really? Dec 02 11:34:37 mashiara: they're closing kernel? Dec 02 11:34:44 kynde: no Dec 02 11:35:11 kynde: no, it's way more complicated than that :P you can still run your wn kernel if you want to get rid of DRM Dec 02 11:36:07 kynde & stskeeps: I was talking with the researcher after the harmattan security framework presentation Dec 02 11:36:23 there an easy way to delete all my contacts Dec 02 11:36:27 the somewhere in /home/user Dec 02 11:36:36 tigert: i just wanted to completely reset the phone Dec 02 11:36:40 asidjazz: flash emmc and that should do i Dec 02 11:36:40 t Dec 02 11:36:41 tigert: ivew been messin w/ it too much Dec 02 11:37:07 kynde & stskeeps: it's in many ways very sensible system and a good compromise. But if for the user flashing unsigned kernel means losing access to any content in secure storage stored before flashing it's a no-go Dec 02 11:37:25 kynde & stskeeps: of course they can flash a signed kernel back and get it all back Dec 02 11:37:32 asidjazz: then flash the 42-11 image and then the emmc Dec 02 11:37:45 mashiara: losing access to any content in the DRM keys stuff is obvious Dec 02 11:38:02 stskeeps: to us... Dec 02 11:38:05 id prefer not having any drm trash on any system whatsoever :) Dec 02 11:38:28 jaska: you can use it for your own benefit too Dec 02 11:38:43 yeah..good riddanc Dec 02 11:38:51 mashiara: "flashing kernel" is not obvious to regular users anyway Dec 02 11:39:07 most people run a stock one anyway Dec 02 11:39:10 jaska: the secure storage APIs are very generic and usable for many pro-user use cases as well Dec 02 11:39:30 tigert: I was wondering since just about everything is updateable OTA, maybe the kernel can be flashed too ? Dec 02 11:39:40 Dec 02 11:40:29 --= Deliver our first Maemo 6-powered mobile computer, with an iconic user experience, in the second half of 2010 =-- Dec 02 11:40:29 tigert: haven't had the time to dig out the details and even if it's possible it probably is (or should be) locked to some signed stuff Dec 02 11:40:41 mashiara: sure it can, but for regular users the "flashable image" does it for you Dec 02 11:40:47 RST38h: yay, roadmaps Dec 02 11:40:48 Statement made by Nokia. Dec 02 11:40:52 it updates the kernel (if there is an updated kernel in the image, of course) and everything else Dec 02 11:41:22 Stskeeps: So, I am taking my words back: it looks like that sole 2010 device will be Maemo6 after all Dec 02 11:41:44 rashed2020: it is one interpreter running per application Dec 02 11:41:51 Stskeeps: (will it mean another rushed release and delays though?) Dec 02 11:41:58 RST38h: first m6 device they say though Dec 02 11:42:22 Stskeeps: Yea, so no keyboardless N900 I guess? Dec 02 11:42:28 RST38h: nfi? :P Dec 02 11:43:25 RST38h: you imply that there has been a maemo device release in the past _without_ rush? :D Dec 02 11:43:45 tigert: awwwww... :) Dec 02 11:43:53 The N920 should be coming Dec 02 11:44:26 zerojay: the 1 week warranty is mentioned earlier in the thread and seems sadly to be true Dec 02 11:44:27 when? on N920 and whats the main difference ? Dec 02 11:44:42 N920 doesn't have keyboard Dec 02 11:44:58 But I don't know exactly when it's coming Dec 02 11:45:50 what are the targets for maemo6 ? i.e. what changes are planned in roadmap? Dec 02 11:45:59 I could live with not toying around with the kernel, I'm already mainitaining enough kernel variants as it is, aslong as I'd atleast get lacking stuff back in as modules atleast. Dec 02 11:46:30 I have no idea, all I know is that they are working hard with Maemo 6 already Dec 02 11:46:47 kynde, even if they are not skipped on the device, they should be put up for download Dec 02 11:47:01 exactly. Dec 02 11:47:04 s/skipped/shipped/ Dec 02 11:47:05 odin_ meant: kynde, even if they are not shipped on the device, they should be put up for download Dec 02 11:47:19 but can n900 be upgraded to maemo6 ? Dec 02 11:47:28 nobody knows Dec 02 11:47:33 also, it is a faq Dec 02 11:47:38 the only issue is when some module cause increased kernel image/data size (even though the main code is a module) Dec 02 11:48:07 ok I think I found out why I can't import osso in python. osso directory is missing __init__.py it appears Dec 02 11:48:09 kynde: compiling the kernel was fun in 1996 Dec 02 11:48:25 maybe a range of kernels should be built, the "release" one and a "developer" one with more stuff built at modules Dec 02 11:48:29 kynde: sure there are valid reasons to build a custom kernel sometimes for specific cases Dec 02 11:48:31 Last thing I heard was that Maemo6 will make so heavy use of multitouch UI that N900 simply won't be sufficient Dec 02 11:48:55 kynde: but I am pretty sure the kernel and all stuff in N900 is tuned pretty well to work with the hw in the official images Dec 02 11:49:05 is N920 to be capacative screen ? Dec 02 11:49:11 tigert: Hey, kids are still having fun compiling kernels, it replaces masturbation Dec 02 11:49:15 is that question in FAQ ? Dec 02 11:49:21 odin: What is N920? Dec 02 11:49:21 tigers: absolutely. It's a travesty if they should drop that possibility. Dec 02 11:49:27 RST38h: exactly, and makes you look cool when you can say you did it :) Dec 02 11:49:38 tigert: That I never understood Dec 02 11:49:40 CoreFusion-, said N920 first, ask him Dec 02 11:50:04 odin: You go ask. Dec 02 11:50:05 RST38h: it might make sense for the pc you built Dec 02 11:50:14 RST38h: but for a nokia kernel for a nokia device, Dec 02 11:50:15 odin; When you figure it out, come back with your question Dec 02 11:50:24 I would assume they got their kernel parameters figured out Dec 02 11:50:31 our core guys are not idiots :) Dec 02 11:50:34 tigert: Would not assume that Dec 02 11:50:41 RST38h, which question ? Dec 02 11:50:57 and like I said, there are cases when you need something specific, but that is not for joe average anyway Dec 02 11:51:03 tigert: I once had to compile FreeBSD kernel because the release version had sysV IPC disabled for some reason Dec 02 11:51:21 tigert: For unknown reasons, somebody probably thought it was unsecure Dec 02 11:51:41 RST38h: :) thats bsd for you :) Dec 02 11:51:52 So, yes, there is still a possibility you will need to recompile, but it is pretty tiny Dec 02 11:51:58 yeah Dec 02 11:52:20 odin: Good, figure that out too. Dec 02 11:52:20 RST38h: but it's still a kernel. you give me a linux device and cripple it by disallowing kernel modifications is not that much different from giving me a windows device. Dec 02 11:52:35 kynde: AFAIK you CAN recompile Maemo5 kernel Dec 02 11:53:02 RST38h, I think you are just confusing things more, I don't believe I need to take any of the actions you are asking me to take, so place stop assiting me (telling me what I should do) Dec 02 11:53:05 kynde: But I have no idea how you equate inability to compile kernel and windows ce Dec 02 11:53:10 but that cripples drm related stuff, then, or did I miss something. I'm not well acquainted with this harmattan drm stuff, just heard about it. Dec 02 11:53:57 morning Dec 02 11:53:57 * RST38h straightens his hat and laughs diabolically Dec 02 11:53:57 mece: which python-osso version are you using ? Dec 02 11:53:57 harmattan has nothing to do with reflashing or compiling N900 kernel Dec 02 11:53:59 kynde: AFAIK Maemo5 still does not have DRM Dec 02 11:54:02 Maemo6 will Dec 02 11:54:22 lizardo, dunno. I did apt-get install python-osso Dec 02 11:54:36 yeah that was a gentlemanly "f**k awf" ha ha Dec 02 11:54:48 mece: dpkg -l python-osso will tell it :) Dec 02 11:54:53 k. hold on Dec 02 11:55:04 * kynde is baffled. harmattan is maemo6, right. and someone just said that using custom kernel there disables drm? Dec 02 11:55:32 ~codenames Dec 02 11:55:34 [codenames] buzz (1.1), rex (1.2), bo (1.3), hamm (2.0), slink (2.1), potato (2.2), Woody=Stable (3.0) Sarge=Testing Unstable=Sid, or see tsc_codenames for those of the technical support crews Dec 02 11:55:34 lizardo, 0.4-0maemo1 Dec 02 11:55:56 infobot codenames is http://wiki.maemo.org/Codenames Dec 02 11:55:57 ...but codenames is already something else... Dec 02 11:56:03 mece: do you have the "extras-devel" reposotory in your sources.list ? Dec 02 11:56:08 infobot you are stupid Dec 02 11:56:10 odin_: what are you talking about? Dec 02 11:56:20 lizardo, nope Dec 02 11:57:02 lizardo, funnily the other N900 i'm comparing with has the same version, and is not missing the init files Dec 02 11:57:06 mece: for Python development on Maemo, I suggest you have it enabled, there are some fixes to packages there that are not yet on extras-testing/extras Dec 02 11:57:17 has anyone hooked up infobot to wiki.maemo.org ? can anyone? Dec 02 11:57:38 mece: both do not have extras-devel ? Dec 02 11:58:01 is extras-devel working ? I set it up but I get an error I have "user" "free" and "non-free" setup Dec 02 11:58:12 RST38h: where did I go wrong? doesn't the drm equate to reduced possibilities of using custom kernels? or when using custom kernels, there'll be lack of features otherwise present in the device? Dec 02 11:58:17 lizardo, that's right. But I'm not sure if testing has been enabled at a point in the other device. I't snot mine. Dec 02 11:58:48 lizardo, would not the version be different then? Dec 02 11:59:33 mece: yes, in that case you would have the 0.4.0-0maemo2 version installed Dec 02 12:00:31 lizardo, ok so since there is the exact same version of python-osso in both devices, but one is missing the init files, what has gone wrong? Dec 02 12:00:47 mece: but python-osso uses python-central to create that __init__.py file, and the problem might be that you are using an older python-central version... Dec 02 12:00:56 mece: anyway, I'll try to reproduce the problem here Dec 02 12:01:14 lizardo, perhaps I don't have python-central Dec 02 12:01:33 mece: well, you should have, because python-osso depends on it :) Dec 02 12:01:38 mece: otherwise it would not install Dec 02 12:01:44 lizardo, lol right :D Dec 02 12:02:09 mece: can you check your python-central version ? (dpkg -l python-central) Dec 02 12:02:20 0.6.11.1maemo1 Dec 02 12:02:45 mece: ok, here I have 0.6.11.1maemo2 (again, took from extras-devel) Dec 02 12:02:50 k. Dec 02 12:02:56 mece: ideally, we will have all these updates in extras-testing some day Dec 02 12:03:19 lizardo, hi there Dec 02 12:03:22 mece: it just happens that these packages are not being automatically promoted to extras-testing as they should Dec 02 12:03:29 lizardo, nod. Are there some other version in testing? Dec 02 12:03:45 jrocha: hi Dec 02 12:04:05 lizardo, about python 2.3 in SB, do I have it because I've been upgrading SB since a while now or is it normal for it to be there Dec 02 12:04:21 from repository.maemo.org: "The proxy server did not receive a timely response from the upstream server." :/ Dec 02 12:04:28 lizardo, how can I set the 2.5 as the default and ever used one Dec 02 12:04:35 lizardo, I'll try to remove python-central and reinstall this and see if it helps. Dec 02 12:04:55 lizardo, the 2.3 is messing with me when I try to generate debian files for a python pet project Dec 02 12:05:01 jrocha: python2.3 has always been there , and it has always been a nightmare for python developers because of that :) Dec 02 12:05:19 jrocha: short answer is : always use python2.5 explicitely Dec 02 12:05:36 jrocha: do you use CDBS for the packaging ? Dec 02 12:05:45 lizardo, yes Dec 02 12:06:01 well, I use it together with a setup script Dec 02 12:06:09 jrocha: ok, you have too options Dec 02 12:06:48 jrocha: add "cdbs_python_compile_version = 2.5" to your debian/rules Dec 02 12:06:54 jrocha: or Dec 02 12:07:43 jrocha: add this nice hack^H^H^Htrick to your debian/rules: Dec 02 12:07:45 # workaround to avoid calling Scratchbox python2.3 Dec 02 12:07:45 PATH := /usr/bin:$(PATH) Dec 02 12:07:45 export PATH Dec 02 12:07:45 SBOX_REDIRECT_IGNORE = /usr/bin/python Dec 02 12:07:46 export SBOX_REDIRECT_IGNORE Dec 02 12:08:27 odin_: just free non-free afaik Dec 02 12:08:35 lizardo, nice, thanks Dec 02 12:08:42 lizardo, I will try that later Dec 02 12:08:42 jrocha: just be careful with the second option, because unfortunately scratchbox uses python for some of it internal tools and those tools might fail if they are called by debian/rules at some point Dec 02 12:08:58 jrocha: but both worked for me so far :) Dec 02 12:09:41 lizardo, btw, do you think that this might be what's causing my debian package to link the destiny paths for my packages as: /scratchbox/user/..../python2.3.... Dec 02 12:09:56 jrocha: yes, I'm sure :) Dec 02 12:10:11 jrocha: because those paths are taken from the running interpreter Dec 02 12:10:12 lizardo, I get the whole path from /scratchbox instead of the relative /usr/lib/python2.5... Dec 02 12:10:27 lizardo, I see Dec 02 12:10:28 jrocha: and inside scratchbox python == python2.3 (even if you call /usr/bin/python !) Dec 02 12:11:24 lizardo, nice, I'll try your suggestions. hopefully you'll save my day Dec 02 12:11:26 :) Dec 02 12:11:33 :) Dec 02 12:12:07 sorry for interrupt, Im new here, and I have problem with this "SBOX_CPU TRANSPARENCY _ METHOD not set" =) Dec 02 12:12:11 lizardo, python-osso seems to install completely separate from python-central Dec 02 12:12:45 can somebody help =) Dec 02 12:13:43 how can i setup transparency method for FREMANTLE X86 Dec 02 12:14:11 mece: oh, now I see Dec 02 12:14:19 mece: there is a bug in that python-osso version Dec 02 12:14:30 lizardo, good to know. Dec 02 12:14:30 mece: it lacks the necessary depends on python-central :( Dec 02 12:14:39 mece: but it was fixed on maemo2 Dec 02 12:14:51 mece: so one more reason to push python-osso into extras-testing ASAP :) Dec 02 12:15:21 lizardo, so I'll just activate devel and install python-osso from there, and then disable it again, and I should be golden? Dec 02 12:15:52 mece: it should work ;) Dec 02 12:16:23 mece: or you can download directly from Dec 02 12:16:24 http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/fremantle/free/p/python-osso/python-osso_0.4-0maemo2_armel.deb Dec 02 12:16:40 mece: and "dpkg -i python-osso_0.4-0maemo2_armel.deb" Dec 02 12:16:52 lizardo, yeah I' was just doing that :) Dec 02 12:17:00 lizardo, thanks Dec 02 12:20:50 Wohoo! Works :D Dec 02 12:21:55 hello all... Dec 02 12:22:01 I have a small question... Dec 02 12:22:12 provided the N900 can vibrate... is there an API for that? And where's the doc? Dec 02 12:22:21 Blast, mce? Dec 02 12:22:24 I think? Dec 02 12:22:34 I imagine you'd use DBus Dec 02 12:22:44 look up MCE Dec 02 12:23:03 it also controls the LED Dec 02 12:23:06 mee too I'd imagine that... but haven't found any good info, apart from the possibility to use vibra plugins... Dec 02 12:23:24 well, take a look-see in /etc/mce/mce.ini, for starters Dec 02 12:23:41 how about that? http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Architecture/Multimedia_Domain Dec 02 12:23:50 Vibra notification plugin: Emits bursts of vibration and controls the vibration hw. Dec 02 12:26:04 I read the SDK 5 should have a Vibration API Dec 02 12:26:08 am I wrong? Dec 02 12:26:29 just looking Dec 02 12:26:59 if it's thru DBus, I see no reason to call it an API... (thanks for looking anyway...) Dec 02 12:27:00 :) Dec 02 12:27:20 take a look at http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/source/mce-dev/include/mce/dbus-names.h Dec 02 12:27:32 well, DBus is a form of API - just not in the traditional sense Dec 02 12:27:50 I guess qualifying it with the prefix "DBus" would make "API" a bit more clear, though Dec 02 12:28:20 hmm pdf reader is quite basic one - Zoom can only be 50, 100, 150% etc. and scrollin from one page to another is not possible, you have to press a virtual button to get to the next page (which forces you to close the full screen) .. Dec 02 12:28:39 is there any other choices? Dec 02 12:28:46 swipe not work? Dec 02 12:28:53 mashiara: I'm not entirely certain what's going on with the scratchbox kernel compilation. Since I build the rx51_defconfig as-is and the modules it spews out are considerably different from those in kernel-modules 2.6.28-20094102.3+0m5 Dec 02 12:28:55 plr_: yeah, it is one of those things that didnt get much updates from previous releases Dec 02 12:28:58 plr_, I don't know if anything else is ported yet, but probably soon Dec 02 12:29:03 SpeedEvil: it will work to scroll the page you are on, but then it will not change the page Dec 02 12:29:04 tigert, yeah, I noticed Dec 02 12:29:42 would be nice to have a good pannable & swipeable one Dec 02 12:30:19 jaem... looking :) Dec 02 12:30:32 free zooming for the pdf reader would be more important for now Dec 02 12:30:53 otherwise you have to make your presentations to exactly with the given zoom levels of the pdf reader =/ Dec 02 12:31:09 *to exactly match Dec 02 12:31:25 can fbreader open pdf's? Dec 02 12:31:36 jaem... it is definitely there.. I suppose it's the only way... gonna have a look at some examples thou... Dec 02 12:31:44 mikhas I agree Dec 02 12:31:54 if you happen to have any ... it would be great... :) Dec 02 12:32:10 file an enhancement request at b.m.o? if it isnt there already =) Dec 02 12:32:17 I instantly tried the web browser circle zoom, but nothing happened Dec 02 12:32:30 oh yeah, same here! Dec 02 12:32:42 browser gestures are addictive Dec 02 12:32:45 Is there a user's guide to N900 somewhere? Dec 02 12:32:49 mikhas: ideally it should column-zoom just like the browser Dec 02 12:32:55 Lynoure: in your N900? Dec 02 12:33:04 I got mine on loan, so did not get anything other than a quick start guide... Dec 02 12:33:09 Blast, you said you don't have an N900, right? Dec 02 12:33:13 Lynoure: look into Documents Dec 02 12:33:18 no, I don't... Dec 02 12:33:20 is there nano for N900? Dec 02 12:33:21 true, tigert. but it is a bit harder to detect columns in a PDF Dec 02 12:33:21 it's arriving :) Dec 02 12:33:33 at least I think it is Dec 02 12:33:36 mikhas: yeah I suppose Dec 02 12:33:48 reflow would be nice as well.. Dec 02 12:33:53 Blast, have you used DBus before? Dec 02 12:33:56 pdf is silly on mobile devices Dec 02 12:33:59 reflow for pdf is not really sensible Dec 02 12:34:08 tigert: oh my :) Dec 02 12:34:12 actually no. Dec 02 12:34:16 reflow can be sensible... Dec 02 12:34:18 as layout is an important part of the document format Dec 02 12:34:19 PDF is utterly broken on mobile devices Dec 02 12:34:21 jaem, nope.. that's the reason I was hoping for some straight API.. :) Dec 02 12:34:27 but seems to wreck code examples often Dec 02 12:34:28 it would then not be "pdf viewer" Dec 02 12:34:40 now, rendering the _content_ in another form might be Dec 02 12:34:47 many people use pdf for something plain text or html would suffice for Dec 02 12:34:51 Blast, okay, well, check over http://dbus.freedesktop.org Dec 02 12:34:59 Lynoure: I am a designer, I use pdfs for print etc... Dec 02 12:35:00 and for those pdfs, reflow is goodness :) Dec 02 12:35:04 you dont want to reflow those :) Dec 02 12:35:09 jaem, ok, thank you so much... Dec 02 12:35:13 but there are different use cases for pdf for sure Dec 02 12:35:14 and KDE's Techbase Wiki has some good info, although the examples are all Qt-specific Dec 02 12:35:31 Blast, I've spent the last four days tearing my hair out over DBus, but now I actually get it :) Dec 02 12:35:32 lol Dec 02 12:35:36 it's a bit confusing at first Dec 02 12:35:52 but here's something to get you started, when you get your device Dec 02 12:35:57 you'll want to save this somewhere Dec 02 12:36:04 to turn the vibe on: Dec 02 12:36:14 from the command line, that is Dec 02 12:36:30 jaem... I haven't been to sincere... been using HAL... but just from the user side, no coding experience... Dec 02 12:37:01 dbus-send --system --dest=com.nokia.mce /com/nokia/mce/request com.nokia.mce.request.req_vibrator_patter_activate string:PatternIncomingCall Dec 02 12:37:13 --system means the system bus (not the session bus) Dec 02 12:37:14 oh, wow :) Dec 02 12:37:26 --dest is the remote object you're accessing Dec 02 12:37:28 that will save my day as soon as I start coding! Dec 02 12:37:47 s/object/service/ Dec 02 12:37:48 sorry Dec 02 12:37:49 jaem meant: --dest is the remote service you're accessing Dec 02 12:38:16 /com/nokia/mce/request is the path to the *object* you want to call a method of Dec 02 12:38:40 and com.nokia.mce.request.req_vibrator_pattern_activate is the fully qualified method name Dec 02 12:38:57 (qualified with the name of the interface that the object implements to provide that method Dec 02 12:39:03 after that is just arguments Dec 02 12:39:11 hopefully that will wet your feet, so to speak Dec 02 12:39:17 so I suppose including a dbus api would be enough to send a message Dec 02 12:39:26 to the service I require... Dec 02 12:39:28 one sec Dec 02 12:40:15 not exactly Dec 02 12:40:20 DBus is a bit weird Dec 02 12:40:56 eheh too good to be true ;) Dec 02 12:41:00 the simple way to do things is to use your language's DBus bindings to create a DBus message, fill it with arguments, and send it off Dec 02 12:41:31 the proper way to do things is to generate a wrapper class, or "proxy" (to the remote object) Dec 02 12:41:46 that normally requires a feature that Nokia probably hasn't implemented :P Dec 02 12:42:13 look up the Introspection section of the DBus Spec in the link I gave you Dec 02 12:42:27 in my case, if one can define vib-patterns it should be enough to send simple messages... Dec 02 12:42:39 you'll probably have to write the XML yourself, but the examples cover the basic cases Dec 02 12:43:16 that will not be a huge problem... Dec 02 12:43:23 Blast, patterns can be defined in /etc/mce/mce.ini Dec 02 12:43:33 then you just reference them by name in the DBus call Dec 02 12:43:53 as I said, mess around with DBus - it might take a bit of getting used to Dec 02 12:44:39 oh, and you probably should know this Dec 02 12:44:50 if you run that command, your phone will vibrate for all eternity Dec 02 12:45:21 so you'll want to run a similar command with the word "activate" changed to "deactivate" :P Dec 02 12:45:44 just to understand... where did you read about the: "com.nokia.mce.request.req_vibrator_patter_activate" ? Dec 02 12:45:46 also, I think I made a typo in that, but it should be obvious, and I'm too tired to care Dec 02 12:45:49 good luck Dec 02 12:45:51 oh? Dec 02 12:45:52 ah Dec 02 12:46:13 in http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/source/mce-dev/include/mce/dbus-names.h Dec 02 12:46:27 req_vibrator_pattern_activate is the method Dec 02 12:46:38 line 411 Dec 02 12:46:38 ok, found it... Dec 02 12:46:53 thank you, u have been really appreciated! Dec 02 12:47:03 can't wait to get my hands on N900... Dec 02 12:47:05 it takes some form of string as a parameter, but what that is depends on your language Dec 02 12:47:12 Blast, I'm sure you'll like it Dec 02 12:47:22 as I ordered from the states... Dec 02 12:47:23 I was lucky enough to get mine prerelease, and it's awesome :) Dec 02 12:47:28 (I'm in italy) Dec 02 12:47:34 and it will be remailed to me... Dec 02 12:47:37 Blast, I know, I just checked ;) Dec 02 12:47:59 should the guy sending it over check for something Dec 02 12:48:05 before he ships it along? Dec 02 12:48:09 what do you mean? Dec 02 12:48:12 (heard about the mic failing...) Dec 02 12:48:23 hmm... haven't had any hardware issues Dec 02 12:48:26 I'm trying to enable extras testing. As outlined in http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras-testing Dec 02 12:48:28 some preliminary checks... possibly make a phone call? Dec 02 12:48:38 Blast, sure, why not, if you want Dec 02 12:48:49 I setup the repo in the application manager, hit update, and it comes back with errors - I check the errors, and find I'm getting 404s Dec 02 12:48:57 if there's some other common major problem... Dec 02 12:49:11 blast, by the way, if you're interested in DBus, watch my blog in the next while (http://ffejery.creativemisconfiguration.com) Dec 02 12:49:24 I'm crazy busy with exams and such now, but I'm planning on doing some articles about it Dec 02 12:49:34 to save other people like you the hassle I went throutgh Dec 02 12:49:35 bookmarking... Dec 02 12:49:36 :P Dec 02 12:49:49 now that's GNU Talking! Dec 02 12:49:50 ;) Dec 02 12:49:57 Blast: hope so, mine has broken earpiece. Waiting for friday to see if I can get one from the shop so I can return this. Dec 02 12:50:35 VRe... so you suggest I shall ask the guy to use it a bit before sending? Dec 02 12:50:52 anyhow, it's almost 5am here, so I should get some sleep Dec 02 12:50:54 (gonna have trouble with the warranty in europe if it is a US model) Dec 02 12:51:05 Blast, ahahaahaah Dec 02 12:51:05 jaem, thank you REALLY much Dec 02 12:51:09 you don't know the half of it Dec 02 12:51:12 Blast: I would.. Dec 02 12:51:23 warrantying a US model in *Canada* almost cost me $60 in UPS ransom Dec 02 12:51:30 luckily I got that sorted out Dec 02 12:51:58 jaem, just imagine... the cost in italy is the same... except that it's in euros! Dec 02 12:51:59 Blast, you're welcome - good that you caught me. I have finally grokked the way of the DBus, and it is good - I just hope you don't have to spend as much time as I did on it Dec 02 12:52:00 heh Dec 02 12:52:04 Blast, lol Dec 02 12:52:45 look: www.nokiausa.com - $569.00 Dec 02 12:53:03 On the topic of my last query. Fremantle is a silly name. Dec 02 12:53:16 www.nokia.it - €599,00 Dec 02 12:53:39 and, on top of that... nokia.it does not deliver yet! Dec 02 12:53:47 SpeedEvil: 'SpeedEvil' is a bit meh too Dec 02 12:53:48 :-) Dec 02 12:54:22 oh, I have another silly question... what's the N900 Bootloader? Dec 02 12:54:23 can you use checkinstall in sb? Dec 02 12:54:33 can it be reflashed? Dec 02 12:54:35 I couldn't spot that 'freemantle' was a typo Dec 02 12:54:58 Blast: you don't want to, it loads a zImage and that's about what you need to know :P Dec 02 12:55:17 and provides a way to save your ass when you have bricked your device Dec 02 12:55:27 Stskeeps, how about to load an alternative zImage? Dec 02 12:55:38 or possibly an alternative initrd? Dec 02 12:55:40 Blast, what he's saying is yes, but it *will* eat your hamster if you try Dec 02 12:56:13 like having 2 kernels available... Dec 02 12:56:25 isn't there an option for that? Dec 02 12:56:48 blast yes u can Dec 02 12:56:53 Blast: no, it loads one kernel, either from NAND or USB Dec 02 12:56:54 ls Dec 02 12:57:01 Blast: you can install your own kernel though Dec 02 12:57:13 search alternative bootloader in the wiki Dec 02 12:57:20 NO-LO ... I suppose it resembles LI-LO Dec 02 12:57:32 Blast: you can install boot menu if you want though, but not for kernels :/ Dec 02 12:58:04 oh, btw, I really think the maemo website Dec 02 12:58:08 is VERY messy Dec 02 12:58:18 heh] Dec 02 12:58:24 I don't think a wiki was a good choice for such a MASSIVE project Dec 02 12:58:44 Blast: uhm.. there's maemo.org and wiki.maemo.org Dec 02 12:59:21 So, what disasters struck Maemoworld while I was working? Dec 02 12:59:39 NoLo bootloader not only is proprietary and sucky, there's almost no documentation available for it anywhere. Dec 02 12:59:41 ;) Dec 02 12:59:46 good starting point! ;) Dec 02 13:00:48 Blast, well nolo means embarrassed, so I suppose it does suck :D Dec 02 13:00:53 Blast, NoLo stands for "Nokia Loader", I believe Dec 02 13:00:58 mece, which language? Dec 02 13:01:03 jaem, finnish, duh :P Dec 02 13:01:07 mece, lol Dec 02 13:01:33 nolo means embarassing in finnish Dec 02 13:01:40 or embarassed yeah Dec 02 13:01:51 's what i said Dec 02 13:01:55 yeah Dec 02 13:02:29 anyway, I was wondering do the debian armel builds work in maemo? Like nano for example. Dec 02 13:02:54 I plan to work with a crypted fs... Dec 02 13:03:09 so the boot loader is a point I will have to deal with in the next future... Dec 02 13:03:30 possibly bypassed by a good working init script... but who knows... :) Dec 02 13:03:57 you want this for protection of your files? Dec 02 13:03:58 Blast, if you find a way to do that, I'd be quite interested :) Dec 02 13:04:19 maybe try mounting /home/user with some crypt thing? Dec 02 13:05:27 jaem, that will be my main goal... Dec 02 13:05:39 tigert, /home? mmm Dec 02 13:05:40 mount /home/user -o encryption=rot13 Dec 02 13:05:48 woo nano :D Dec 02 13:05:50 I was planning for / <- Dec 02 13:06:05 vi was making me want to do drugs. Dec 02 13:06:25 oh, btw, could someone paste a default "fdisk -ul" for N900? Dec 02 13:06:37 just to pre-realize what I am going to mess with :) Dec 02 13:06:45 fdisk -ul Dec 02 13:06:45 -sh: fdisk: not found Dec 02 13:06:52 oh :) Dec 02 13:06:57 cfdisk is available Dec 02 13:07:03 sfdisk.. Dec 02 13:07:04 :P Dec 02 13:07:46 cfdisk would do... Dec 02 13:08:17 http://pastebin.ca/1698327 Dec 02 13:10:08 is that original? untouched? Dec 02 13:10:19 could you also paste a "mount" output? Dec 02 13:10:37 no, I've installed maybe 20M of stuff Dec 02 13:11:08 http://pastebin.ca/1698335 Dec 02 13:11:09 SpeedEvil, no, I mean if you had repartioned... Dec 02 13:11:13 ah - no Dec 02 13:12:14 gotta get used to that... Dec 02 13:12:30 ... /home/user ... wtf! "user" ... Dec 02 13:12:42 latest linux mag has a tutorial for making Qt apps for maemo I hear. Something I find promising for the platform :) Dec 02 13:12:48 Blast: welcome to maemo Dec 02 13:12:53 i've had /home/manu for the past 10 years Dec 02 13:13:12 Blast, useradd -d /home/manu manu Dec 02 13:13:16 and I don't plan to symlink me! Dec 02 13:13:33 mece, what about "MyDocs" ? Dec 02 13:13:34 :) Dec 02 13:13:52 nah... the partition table need a major rethink... Dec 02 13:14:21 * SpeedEvil installs mbarcode. Dec 02 13:14:27 Oooh - portrait mode! Dec 02 13:14:53 grr argh why does all my debs install crap into local? Dec 02 13:15:37 Thank you guys... very helpful... going out for lunch... Dec 02 13:15:57 have a nice day/night... depending on your location ;) Dec 02 13:17:25 mece: qt is quite simple. Just make software on desktop and then compile in scrachbox. Should work quite well from the box. Dec 02 13:18:04 VRe, so I hear. I just think it's nice that Linux Magazine promotes maemo. Dec 02 13:19:29 I don't think they promote. They write arcticles to get readers. Dec 02 13:21:45 VRe, it's still promoting. Dec 02 13:22:35 well, then they for sure promoted already during 770 days. Tablet with linux and all.. Dec 02 13:25:52 re Dec 02 13:29:20 Meanwhile: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/12/02/mephedrone_madness/ Dec 02 13:38:37 * frals_ is waiting for talk to explode with "maemo6 device 2h2010" Dec 02 13:38:54 RST38h, mephedrone is quite a dangerous development. I've done extensive research on it. There is a strong possibility that it causes mitral valve prolapse and pulmonary edema. It is also highly probable that it is as toxic to dopamine receptors as methamphetamine and methcathinone Dec 02 13:39:22 * Stskeeps blinks Dec 02 13:39:34 tKMFDM: In other words, junkies have found another shit to kill themselves with Dec 02 13:40:04 RST38h, in other words prohibition has lead to a drug more dangerous than the illegal drugs being sold because the stuff people really want is illegal Dec 02 13:40:06 Still, it probably does not make you claw your crotch out =) Dec 02 13:40:09 and most people using mephedrone are kids Dec 02 13:40:13 not junkies Dec 02 13:40:19 usually who have little to no drug experience Dec 02 13:40:36 in the UK it is available at virtually every headshop Dec 02 13:40:43 * RST38h isn't so sure about prohibition leading to that, but anyway Dec 02 13:40:50 and no it doesn't make you claw your crotch out Dec 02 13:40:53 I've used it Dec 02 13:41:00 I would not do so again Dec 02 13:41:15 but no my crotch wasn't clawed out Dec 02 13:41:22 it does make you smell like a bathroom urinal cake though Dec 02 13:41:39 it is excreted in the sweat Dec 02 13:41:53 urgh Dec 02 13:42:29 so you're saying i could get high *and* be irresistible to women while i kill myself? Dec 02 13:42:31 seriously though no one would use this crap if the prohibited stuff was regulated Dec 02 13:42:54 and then kids wouldn't be able to score the currently illegal substances that are often easier to obtain for them than alcohol Dec 02 13:43:13 Flandry, you could look at it that way yes Dec 02 13:43:35 "Live webcast from Nokia Capital Markets Day" went to "Offtopic". WTF? Dec 02 13:44:04 the question is, does it let users kill as many other people as alcohol does Dec 02 13:44:07 tKMFDM: I am sure somebody would, prohibition or not Dec 02 13:44:19 RST38h, yes somebody would Dec 02 13:44:27 somebody however; would be a lot fewer than currently use it Dec 02 13:44:36 most people using mephedrone are taking it as an mdma alternative Dec 02 13:44:42 http://crimeandjustice.org.uk/estimatingdrugharms.html - fun Dec 02 13:44:44 because they either can't obtain mdma or do not want to risk prosecution Dec 02 13:44:47 The thing I noticed is that drugs like company Dec 02 13:44:55 the rest are taking it as an alternative to other stimulants Dec 02 13:45:00 i'm not really worried what people do to themselves as much as what they do to others Dec 02 13:45:16 Small groups of friends start using the same drugs, then switch to harder stuff, then group members slowly start fucking themselves up Dec 02 13:45:30 so frankly if it causes less DUI homiciides, it's better than alcohol Dec 02 13:45:32 (fig 1 on page 10 - relative drug harms) Dec 02 13:45:35 Usually takes 3-5 years from the moment they start smoking grass =) Dec 02 13:45:58 such as cocaine or methamphetamine which while both addiction prone and dangerous substances are at least well studied. we know what the risk of these substances are both long term and short term. mephedrones risk is completely unknown. only estimatable at t his time Dec 02 13:46:09 RST38h, separate the drug markets like the netherlands does Dec 02 13:46:18 almost no cannabis user in holland users hard drugs Dec 02 13:46:22 ohai, I can haz maemo discussion? Dec 02 13:46:38 wrong channel Myrtti Dec 02 13:46:41 Myrtti, ok i'll throw something out there. there needs to be an rdp client that works with the keyboard Dec 02 13:46:44 politics and drug discussion make my head hurt Dec 02 13:46:45 Myrtti: Yea, would you like fries with that? =) Dec 02 13:46:46 Myrtti: DUI *is* a Maemo discussion :) Dec 02 13:47:00 it didn't cse any homicides... yet Dec 02 13:47:06 we need a cool acronym for driving while using the device Dec 02 13:47:06 Ironically, Robot is correct =) Dec 02 13:47:14 DirectUI Dec 02 13:47:31 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwDRBm-qbQI - on the current topic. Dec 02 13:47:32 its unclear what they were smoking though :) Dec 02 13:47:33 I've so far avoided walking into people (or cars or bikes) while walking around using the device Dec 02 13:47:42 oh noes, my Ubuntu IRC experience hasn't yet worn off from me Dec 02 13:47:58 tKMFDM: I am currently losing weight and shivering due to my n900. Dec 02 13:48:06 * Myrtti goes to scrub her hands with pumice and lye Dec 02 13:48:11 on last point i was in the middle of that i simply had to throw in is that almost no one in NL uses grass either despite it being for sale in every major city Dec 02 13:48:20 SpeedEvil, elucidate Dec 02 13:48:24 (diet, partially to pay for it, and heating minimal) Dec 02 13:48:26 Myrtti: Got your N900? Dec 02 13:48:33 lol Dec 02 13:48:37 lol Dec 02 13:48:40 RST38h: I've not ordered or paid for one Dec 02 13:48:55 I'd be surprised if I'd get one :-D Dec 02 13:48:56 tKMFDM: I couldn't really afford it. But it was good motivation for diet. And I need to lose maybe 25Kg) Dec 02 13:49:16 Myrtti: Not interested in N900 as opposed to N8x0 or some other reason? =) Dec 02 13:50:48 RST38h: waiting for the prices go down a bit more, mainly. And the latest press release with "Maemo6 device to ship on second half of 2010" has made the consideration process a bit harder Dec 02 13:51:18 <|R> Anyone has ordered from MobileCityOnline? Dec 02 13:51:20 N900 shipped in "the latter half of 2009" Dec 02 13:51:27 Myrtti: with that kind of thinking you might always wait for the next one :) Dec 02 13:51:29 how long do you want to wait :D Dec 02 13:51:55 hola ;} Dec 02 13:52:03 Lynoure: but maemo6 is the step 5 in the roadmap with 5 steps... Dec 02 13:52:08 Lynoure: and in process save a lot of money =) Dec 02 13:52:11 Myrtti: I'd rather see it like this: "First modern non-symbian Nokia phone shipping now-ish" Dec 02 13:52:12 Myrtti: Ah, that... :) Dec 02 13:52:33 Myrtti: I would consider ordering from US as alternative to waiting for prices to fall Dec 02 13:52:43 Myrtti: Want to join maemo revolution at the end of the path? *trollish* Dec 02 13:52:49 if i could wait i would buy my phone and zaurus have both had it Dec 02 13:52:52 I'm not sure yet if I want to pay 530€ for a "nice try, but no bonus"-phone that'll be more or less obsolete in a year Dec 02 13:53:11 s/obsolete/outdates Dec 02 13:53:14 Myrtti: (+) You get all four arrows (-) kbd layout switch bug suddenly becomes relevant Dec 02 13:53:21 outdated even Dec 02 13:53:25 <|R> I don't think anything with people in suit can be called a revolution though :P Dec 02 13:53:30 Every phone is "outdated" after a year :) Dec 02 13:53:31 Lynoure: I'm working and being paid for being a part of the revolution, and have been for 18 months already, so your argument doesn't roll Dec 02 13:53:37 i am sure gsm, edge, 3g, hsdpa, wifi all will exist 2nd half of 2010 Dec 02 13:53:44 s/but/buy Dec 02 13:53:51 so obsolete is an exaggeration Dec 02 13:53:52 |R: I would not call maemo people people in suits... Dec 02 13:54:03 530 euros?!?! Dec 02 13:54:04 |R: though some of them here might shock me with that =) Dec 02 13:54:07 <|R> Lynoure: agreed, but there backing is :) Dec 02 13:54:12 Myrtti: $500 though? Dec 02 13:54:15 <|R> their Dec 02 13:54:28 Myrtti: oh, you work for Nokia? Dec 02 13:54:29 <|R> (just woken up and usually speak french, sorry :P) Dec 02 13:54:45 Myrtti: or, maemo, in particular, that is? Dec 02 13:54:49 RST38h: I could get it for free in UK with a plan I'm likely to get anyway, but I want specifically a Nordic version of the device Dec 02 13:54:52 actually, do we know yet if the next device will support a stylus? If not i'm really not interested Dec 02 13:55:02 Lynoure: Nokia subcontractor Dec 02 13:55:09 Myrtti: no way I can understand that... Dec 02 13:55:17 af'noon all Dec 02 13:55:25 good morning :) Dec 02 13:55:29 Myrtti: I mean, specifically NOT getting .RU version here because of the arrows... Dec 02 13:55:29 Myrtti: What's so special about the Nordic version? Dec 02 13:55:42 Myrtti: but for maemo? What company? What do you do? (Got curious, have not heard about you since I left #u-o Dec 02 13:55:48 Jaffa, is it intended that while doing the contatcs updating in hermes, there is no indication that it is busy? Dec 02 13:56:00 (other than FB statusi, but those do not count) Dec 02 13:56:16 rashed2020: I'm sceptic about being able to use scandic characters in other versions of the device Dec 02 13:56:40 Myrtti, i hear from others that you can Dec 02 13:56:41 if you add other languages Dec 02 13:56:46 they appear int he symbols dialog Dec 02 13:56:55 "how convinient" Dec 02 13:56:56 granted then it is cumbersome Dec 02 13:57:14 Should be possible to add them to the keyboard, with xkb-fu Dec 02 13:57:23 Have not gotten around to it then Dec 02 13:57:24 i wonder when we will get firmware that can add more than two languages Dec 02 13:57:32 apparently the firmware nokians have already can Dec 02 13:57:36 s/then/yet/ Dec 02 13:57:37 Lynoure meant: Have not gotten around to it yet Dec 02 13:57:43 it is possible to change the hwkb layout from the control panel Dec 02 13:57:59 yes Dec 02 13:58:01 it is Dec 02 13:58:06 suihkulokki: yes, but it does not say what key goes where... Dec 02 13:58:13 besides, my brain is mapped quite tightly to use Finnish hw keyboard Dec 02 13:58:15 heh Dec 02 13:58:17 zaheer_: it was not a question, it was a statement =) Dec 02 13:58:30 Myrtti. tKMFDM: Be aware of bug #2501 Dec 02 13:58:31 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2501 Hardware keyboard doesn't switch Input language when pressing Ctrl+Space Dec 02 13:58:35 mine was not a rebuttal but a verification :) Dec 02 13:58:36 I had to buy stickers for making a UK keyboard Finnish to be able to properly use it Dec 02 13:58:44 suihkulokki: rumour I heard was that getting ä and ö would lose my cursor keys. Dec 02 13:58:47 RST38h: hence why I'm sceptic Dec 02 13:59:24 Myrtti: layouts are memorizable, do not need stickers really. But that switch bug is a bummer Dec 02 13:59:39 Lynoure: it is not a rumour, it is a fact Dec 02 13:59:51 losing arrow keys though... Dec 02 14:00:14 that is why the bug RST38h should be fixed asap Dec 02 14:00:16 suihkulokki: so, instead I'm thinking of having ä instead of pound sign and ö instead of euro Dec 02 14:01:03 Lynoure: business card says "Nomovok Ltd", and I've got AUCtex as my main tool in emacs. Dec 02 14:01:06 zaheer_: apart from the progress dialogue? Dec 02 14:01:29 zaheer_: (if you close the progress dialogue it won't reopen) Dec 02 14:01:43 (vote vote vote) Dec 02 14:01:43 Jaffa, progress dialogue? Dec 02 14:02:30 maybe i did close it and didn't notice Dec 02 14:02:48 suihkulokki: You do understand that it exists since 2007 or so and NOBODY has fixed it so far? Dec 02 14:02:56 zaheer_: you tap "retrieve" and it goes from "Fetching friends' info" through to "Updating contacts" Dec 02 14:02:58 i just saw my contacts app changing its number for all contacts while hermes was running Dec 02 14:03:43 and this time i left it running and so got all my birthday only contacts, previous time i had closed it at some point... Dec 02 14:05:49 <|R> Is the proximity sensor the one below the camera or the one above? Dec 02 14:08:51 once again, -users proving itself as a cesspool of crime and villainy Dec 02 14:08:55 rashed2020: sorry, the lowest price atm is actually 539€ with shipping Dec 02 14:09:25 Myrtti: Is that in euros? Or do you mean another currency that you don't have the key for? Dec 02 14:09:36 Cuz that is an INSANE price if it's in euros. Dec 02 14:09:41 it is Dec 02 14:09:45 it's finnish price Dec 02 14:09:56 rashed2020: yes, euros, and I use UTF8, what are you using? Dec 02 14:09:57 rashed2020: it's an euro sign :) Dec 02 14:10:47 N900 is still cheap compared to the e90 when it was new... somehing like 900+ euros Dec 02 14:10:56 <|R> yiaoutch! Dec 02 14:11:14 Finland, VAT and all the happiness :P Dec 02 14:11:16 its like 560€ here in .se Dec 02 14:11:35 with a contract the cheapest deal is around 22e/mo, and the contract probably includes absolutely *nothing* Dec 02 14:11:52 and you're tied to it for 24mo Dec 02 14:12:21 I can't believe what a throwaway device the N900 seems to be turning into. Dec 02 14:12:29 Nokia just never learns. Dec 02 14:13:20 Multitouch idiocy. . . . Dec 02 14:14:09 eh? Dec 02 14:14:10 GAN900: perhaps they'd learn by maemo6? perhaps the next device is the jesus model that they can use as a base for everything forthcoming and make maemo6+ downwards compatible for all maemo6 devices? perhaps? maybe? hopefully? *shrug* Dec 02 14:14:39 GAN900: you mean by not including multitouch? Dec 02 14:16:13 does the autobuilder check for binary package dependencies or just build dependencies? Dec 02 14:16:13 anyway, hope springs eternal Dec 02 14:16:14 Flandry, I mean not having multitouch on the N900 is a bullshit reason for not releasing an update for the N900. Dec 02 14:16:36 Oh, is that their official stance now? Dec 02 14:16:40 Myrtti, I have this sinking feeling that my relationship with Maemo will end with Harmattan. Dec 02 14:16:44 (no update) Dec 02 14:16:55 Flandry, Nokia never has an official stance. Dec 02 14:17:18 But that seems to be the direction the rumors point. Dec 02 14:17:24 ah ok :/ Dec 02 14:17:41 Harmattan mostly looks like something I don't want. Dec 02 14:17:49 For a ba Dec 02 14:17:51 yeah Dec 02 14:18:05 Enough stress in my life, not worrying about something that happens about techtoys a year from now :) Dec 02 14:18:05 For a variety of practical and philosophical reasons. Dec 02 14:18:36 Hello Everybody ! Dec 02 14:18:39 well GAN900's involvement in maemo goes a bit beyond just a toy Dec 02 14:19:30 WOO!! My order status just changed to SHIPPED! Dec 02 14:19:58 Indeed, I've invested way too much tine Dec 02 14:20:05 CoreFusion-: uk? Dec 02 14:20:11 time in this platform not to care. Dec 02 14:20:12 w00t: Finland Dec 02 14:20:13 GAN900: Surely they're not hinting multitouch will be so integral as to preclude N900 usage? Dec 02 14:20:18 CoreFusion-: k, never mind then :-) Dec 02 14:20:44 w00t: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=404806&postcount=1935 Dec 02 14:20:45 GAN900: "to Everything There is a Season" Dec 02 14:20:55 * w00t clicks Dec 02 14:20:58 Jaffa, that's what I keep hearing. Dec 02 14:21:08 Stskeeps: *glare* Dec 02 14:21:10 Jaffa: fremantle for N800? Dec 02 14:21:15 rangar has Thanked a post or two to that effect. Dec 02 14:21:17 w00t: feels like a kick in the crotch, eh? :P Dec 02 14:21:21 quite Dec 02 14:21:30 wonder when nokia sweden will ship the n900. Dec 02 14:21:40 what's the status for 1.1 firmware? Dec 02 14:21:49 Flandry: H/w step change Dec 02 14:22:02 tru: they seem to be having a large amount of problems even shipping in countries it's already released in, so I'd expect that might impact it too Dec 02 14:22:04 GAN900: bah Dec 02 14:22:19 Jaffa, indeed. Dec 02 14:22:32 I can't possibly see that being justifiable. Dec 02 14:22:43 Multitouch is so freaking gimmicky. Dec 02 14:23:26 Jaffa: so is step 5 one would assume by that logic Dec 02 14:23:42 FECK Dec 02 14:23:58 that almost sounded unladylike Dec 02 14:24:07 I snapped a nail :-< Dec 02 14:24:12 rofl Dec 02 14:24:17 Besides, they HAVE to realize that jetisoning their existing owners over and over isn't an effective way to build a platform. Dec 02 14:24:29 anyone bugzilla empowered in bugs.maemo.org awake? Dec 02 14:24:36 you'd be surprised how many companies don't get that Dec 02 14:24:41 suihkulokki, hmm? Dec 02 14:25:07 AT&T drove their cell business into the ground that way Dec 02 14:25:29 Idiocy Dec 02 14:25:34 and then someone was dumb enough to think that renaming Cingular after that company was a good idea Dec 02 14:25:49 Stskeeps, yah well glad people are getting them :) Dec 02 14:26:15 GAN900: You should try mailing them to suggest open-sourcing the platform so you can port Maemo6 for the N900. *grin* Dec 02 14:26:39 Flandry: What h/w is on the horizon for 2H10? Dec 02 14:26:39 perosnally i think nokia should open source all the maemo 5 ui Dec 02 14:27:01 if they're scrapping them all for qt based ui in maemo 6 Dec 02 14:27:35 <|R> indeed Dec 02 14:27:39 Jaffa: besides a mulitouch screen, not much different, but the point is they seem to make each step a new start Dec 02 14:27:42 Lupu, I suspect there'll be a bit of justifying by poinring to Mer. Dec 02 14:28:15 <|R> They hopefully add a digital compass too in the next N9x0 Dec 02 14:28:22 <|R> 'll Dec 02 14:28:25 i'm not justifying it, just pointing it out Dec 02 14:28:34 one would hope, yes Dec 02 14:28:38 and usb host Dec 02 14:28:44 hdmi out would be sweet too Dec 02 14:28:44 that's pretty much all that's missing Dec 02 14:28:52 <|R> yeah, and more ram haha ;) Dec 02 14:28:54 oh well that :) Dec 02 14:28:55 uhuhhuh, mommys little baby ♥ Fonera 2.0n Dec 02 14:29:00 it haz a tux on it :-D Dec 02 14:29:01 And now I got the tracking code for my shipment :) Dec 02 14:29:11 * GAN900 wonders what happened to MicroB being open sourced. Dec 02 14:29:27 CoreFusion-, is it being shipped from finland or from NL? Dec 02 14:29:32 * |R scrapped his order from september to get a lower price yesterday... and thus is never getting a phone Dec 02 14:29:53 zaheer_: from finland, from my operator Dec 02 14:29:58 <|R> Damn us in Canada Dec 02 14:30:05 Maemo, that land of broken promises. Dec 02 14:30:08 CoreFusion-, aah ok :) Dec 02 14:30:57 zaheer_: haha. i asked the same question ;) Dec 02 14:31:02 (more or less) Dec 02 14:31:07 anyone know if the autobuilder will reject a build for binary package dependencies not being found? Dec 02 14:31:20 has anyone got pidgin working? I installed it from extras-testing - it connects to freenode, then becomes confused, not logging in properly. Dec 02 14:31:47 That pretty much summarizes my pidgin experience throughout the years Dec 02 14:31:59 it "becomes confused" Dec 02 14:32:14 suihkulokki, timeframe expiring momentarily. Dec 02 14:32:25 Flandry: build-deps: yes; depends: no (cos the autobuilder needs to build it to know them) Dec 02 14:32:44 ok thanks Dec 02 14:33:18 <|R> hehe pidgin on my debian unstable rights now after a while i come back, close a window, and it goes in a while(true): malloc() loop or something like that and then gets killed by the OOM manager.. Dec 02 14:34:42 suihkulokki, ping timeout. Dec 02 14:41:08 GAN900: no longer need that. Dec 02 14:41:25 wb qwerty12_N900 Dec 02 14:41:37 Thank you, Stskeeps Dec 02 14:49:24 OMG - Got my N900 a few days ago, just coming up to speed. It is INCREDIBLE Dec 02 14:49:40 sigh http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=35055&page=15 Dec 02 14:50:01 deval extras Dec 02 14:51:01 hmm camkeyd doesn't seem to work for me - the camera key still opens camera instead of dashboard Dec 02 14:51:17 it would be very nice to use it for dashboard Dec 02 14:51:29 instead of ctrl-backspace? Dec 02 14:51:37 Flandry: the guy with the problem did say that he hadn't touched the devel repo though Dec 02 14:52:06 yeah i know, but clueless kids wandering into the thread and spewing that doesn't help stuff Dec 02 14:52:15 shadow yeah Dec 02 14:52:33 very true Dec 02 14:52:41 ShadowJK: it's annoying when the keyboard is closed and app is full screen Dec 02 14:54:37 is xterm actaully the real xterm? or is it slim like rxvt? Dec 02 14:56:03 roundyz: What do you mean by "real" and "slim"? It's based on libvte like gnome-terminal Dec 02 14:56:04 "Listening to the obvious pride they are showing in how they staged the N900 introduction makes me wonder if the delay, confusing availability and messy sales processes, were all planned to create "talk," if not outright hype around the N900. It's also interesting to note what they do not talk about regarding this device, like how many unique orders they have actually got for the device, or expected sales volume, or whether it will be Mae Dec 02 14:56:04 mo6 compatible." from t.m.o re:nokia capital markets day Dec 02 14:56:04 roundyz, if you mean the Terminal, it is a fork of Terminal, ie. found in Xfce Dec 02 14:56:50 yerh terminal, i meant Dec 02 14:59:11 zaheer_: Anyone who thinks that credits Nokia with more cunning than I think they've got. A *lot* more cunning. Dec 02 14:59:30 conspiracy theories are fun to some people Dec 02 14:59:31 yah i think you're right :) Dec 02 15:01:38 hi kalikiana Dec 02 15:01:40 overdriven jazz makes me angry (on hold with nokia) :[ Dec 02 15:02:23 hey Flandry Dec 02 15:02:36 kalikiana: i was trying to remember if i verified that the /dev/input/uinput group is properly set after reboot. Did you check that yesterday? Dec 02 15:03:50 Flandry, iirc I did chgrp manually Dec 02 15:03:50 Instead of a reboot, changing it back to group root and then trying udevadm control --reload_rules would accomplish the same Dec 02 15:04:13 i hope Dec 02 15:05:34 attila is going to upload the kernel module package, so if that udevadmn command does the trick, everything should work after the next uqm update Dec 02 15:07:06 Flandry, so you resolved the missing kernel symbols? Dec 02 15:07:20 I read some of the discussion about it, but not all Dec 02 15:09:18 turns out he already has a workspace set up that can create kernel module builds, so i think it will be ok. The symbol problems were with the net module mashiara was working on Dec 02 15:10:10 mashiara sucessfully built and installed the joydev module, and sent it to me, but didn't have a way to autobuild it yet Dec 02 15:11:00 if you really want to test it out, you can get the module from the https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6492 bug report and install it Dec 02 15:11:02 Bug 6492: Accelemymote component requires joydev kernel module Dec 02 15:11:37 but hopefully a deb will be on extras when attila uploads that Dec 02 15:13:02 it's probably eaisest to wait and test it then, if he uploads it anyway Dec 02 15:13:45 waiting to talk to nokia human for nearly 30 mins, effing' jazz music Dec 02 15:14:21 is it pan pipes? Dec 02 15:14:23 why in contacts if you add a phone number does it also add a SMS link? The numbers don't accept SMS (landlines)... Dec 02 15:14:30 I wish it were Dec 02 15:15:01 it's a single terrible distorted song on a loop Dec 02 15:15:04 yes, true. Could you please do a quck chgrp on the uinput node and then call the update rules script to make sure that side of things is all set? Dec 02 15:15:35 chgrp root /dev/input/uinput Dec 02 15:15:57 udevadm control --reload_rules Dec 02 15:16:04 they don't need to say "sorry, our lines are busy, we will answer your call shortly" every 8 seconds Dec 02 15:16:28 Klowner: that just makes it more annoying, doesn't it? Dec 02 15:16:44 Flandry: totally Dec 02 15:16:47 jebbajeb: FWIW, landlines in the UK can get SMSes (although I've never used it) Dec 02 15:16:57 heh. Dec 02 15:17:02 not here in .ar Dec 02 15:17:08 at least not that i've seen yet Dec 02 15:17:08 that's cool Dec 02 15:17:38 Jaffa: ... under some circumstances, with some providers? Dec 02 15:17:42 jebbajeb: FWIW, landlines in the UK can get SMSes (although I've never used it) Dec 02 15:18:08 i think we need a #maemo, #maemo-devel, #maemo-bitch-about-nokia, heh Dec 02 15:18:15 and #Maemo-bacon Dec 02 15:18:17 ccooke: All do, AFAIK. BT, for example, ring you and it's read out Dec 02 15:18:19 amen Dec 02 15:18:39 Flandry, did that. according to acceleremote it is fine Dec 02 15:19:10 Jaffa: and people with landlines from virgin? Dec 02 15:19:16 jebbajeb: point me at a bug # and I'll vote for it :) Dec 02 15:19:27 ccooke: same thing AIUI Dec 02 15:19:32 huh Dec 02 15:19:34 kalikiana: Great! thanks for checking that Dec 02 15:19:35 I shall check Dec 02 15:21:11 Jaffa: ... nope. Dec 02 15:22:30 Writing from wirelessIRC via symbian, and wondering what the best, most popular IRC client is on Maemo 5. What are you guys using? Dec 02 15:22:36 xchat? Dec 02 15:22:37 :P Dec 02 15:23:24 xchat, but I guess I'm not the only one who uses screen+irssi Dec 02 15:23:41 telnet Dec 02 15:23:51 i use ssh+irssi mostlythough Dec 02 15:24:09 ccooke: doh Dec 02 15:24:28 * Jaffa using ssh+irssi too Dec 02 15:24:36 xchat + lots of channels + 3G == 57% battery remaining after 2 hours Dec 02 15:24:46 ssh + screen + irssi Dec 02 15:24:47 PhonoE71: using xchat at the moment. Though i did install pidgin and the IRC plugin for "conversations" which i suppose i could try now Dec 02 15:25:00 I switched to 2G and it was significantly better Dec 02 15:25:02 ShadowJK: is xchat a hog? Dec 02 15:25:03 its the awesome on the road Dec 02 15:25:07 Cheers, thanks everybody. I'll definitely want an on phone client... Looking at xchat now, is it currently compatible? Dec 02 15:25:10 jebba900, no it's 3G Dec 02 15:25:11 no disconnects to worry about Dec 02 15:25:11 i second the shell with irssi in screen Dec 02 15:25:25 Stskeeps, IRC needs an extension for powersaving ;p Dec 02 15:25:33 ShadowJK: no longer my scene Dec 02 15:25:34 ssh, screen and irssi is a wonderful platform :-) Dec 02 15:25:38 screen is the thing that makes irssi so awesome Dec 02 15:25:39 I know Dec 02 15:25:48 otherwise it is not Dec 02 15:25:56 Jebbajeb: IRC plugin sounds interesting Dec 02 15:26:05 PhonoE71: ya, xchat is compatible. i'm using it now Dec 02 15:26:11 over here Dec 02 15:26:13 I saw mention on tmo or bugzilla that the irc plugin doesn't do channels... Dec 02 15:26:17 tigert: completely agree Dec 02 15:26:34 though i havent been able to save preferences in xchat yet... Dec 02 15:26:40 ShadowJK: it doesnt because the n900 chat doesnt do group chats Dec 02 15:26:44 ShadowJK: that said, raising ping timeouts and maybe a PSM like protocol .. Dec 02 15:26:51 yes Dec 02 15:26:56 If you can't do it with ssh and screen, you probably haven't thought enough ;-) Dec 02 15:26:57 it did save autostartup freenode #maemo, but the main menu preferences crashes when i save it Dec 02 15:27:10 plus irssi doesnt waste screen for useless gui Dec 02 15:27:15 Thanks all, that should get me started Dec 02 15:27:19 basically a "don't send my anything for 60seconds unless I ask"-command Dec 02 15:27:21 its just the chat on fullscreen terminaö Dec 02 15:27:31 ShadowJK: except when display is on? Dec 02 15:27:52 ShadowJK: maybe some irssi / ssh powersave mode Dec 02 15:27:53 Well, client would cancel that command when display comes on Dec 02 15:28:04 the ssh powersave mode is ^A^D Dec 02 15:28:08 ;-) Dec 02 15:28:08 also for scrolling in xchat you have to grab the widget on the far right. You can't scroll by sliding up and down like in the browser and such. It hasnt really been tweaked for maemo much. Dec 02 15:28:21 that it could update in bursts every (timeout -1) seconds Dec 02 15:28:31 ShadowJK: yeah Dec 02 15:29:14 jebbajeb, I think you have to get rid of the channel tree/tabs and userlist completely Dec 02 15:29:14 not enough room for chat otherwise with the huge widgets :/ Dec 02 15:29:14 though i wonder if ssh does some keepalive stuff Dec 02 15:29:14 that could be tuned? Dec 02 15:29:14 It has keepalive options, yes. Dec 02 15:29:31 maemo openssh defauts should be checked for maximum powersave Dec 02 15:29:53 I'm pretty sure the defaults are no keepalives at all. Dec 02 15:29:53 xchat ui would be a good one to work on, Dec 02 15:30:01 xchat also has other issues Dec 02 15:30:02 in barcelona next weekend Dec 02 15:30:07 changing settings crashes the client Dec 02 15:30:11 But either the client or the server can request them. Dec 02 15:30:12 Just esc 1 to status window in irssi where nothing happens anyway, and there will be minimum irssi traffic? Dec 02 15:30:28 a well designed fremantle-style irc would be nice Dec 02 15:30:31 tKMFDM, yeah, I just copied settings from n810 Dec 02 15:30:59 I'm not so fond of "Conversations" either, the font is gigantic for my taste Dec 02 15:31:13 ShadowJK: statusbar + chanact... Dec 02 15:31:28 I guess it's fine for twitter generation where your attention span is about 80 chars Dec 02 15:31:32 i wonder if the settings files are identical to linux chat. if so i i'll just copy from my ox Dec 02 15:31:39 with some changes Dec 02 15:31:47 ShadowJK, you can change text size Dec 02 15:32:04 tigert: I actually think pidgin - the way I have it setup for desktop - would be about right. Conversation window, with tabs down the right-hand-side - with the tabs lettering at right angles Dec 02 15:32:04 using the volume button i believe Dec 02 15:32:11 yea Dec 02 15:32:12 pidgin - the package - is broken Dec 02 15:32:18 ShadowJK: technically you could implement this power saving protocol in a BNC Dec 02 15:32:21 could mockup something someday Dec 02 15:32:22 or irssi-proxy Dec 02 15:32:25 Stskeeps, yes Dec 02 15:32:26 now to cook dinner Dec 02 15:32:35 Stskeeps, when I find the time I will Dec 02 15:32:41 doesn't even need to be protocol-aware Dec 02 15:32:55 if I put it infront of irssi-proxy or bnc Dec 02 15:33:35 hello maemo Dec 02 15:33:38 I read somewhere that the zooming in conversations is going to get disabled? maybe I remember wrong Dec 02 15:34:23 http://maemo.org/packages/view/pidgin/ - how do I get from here to 'report an issue against this package' ? Dec 02 15:34:30 ShadowJK: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5624 Dec 02 15:34:32 Bug 5624: Zoom in/out in IM chat does not reflow contents Dec 02 15:34:42 pet peeve rapidly approaching #1: when you get the silly recurring "Unable to connect to one or more accounts", volume keys control volume Dec 02 15:34:45 and not the app Dec 02 15:34:53 SpeedEvil: btw, i see at this very moment there is a new pidgin update, at least since last night Dec 02 15:35:07 jebbajeb: downloaded a couple of hours ago Dec 02 15:35:52 wait 50 mins to talk to returns and now they forward me to troubleshooting... grr Dec 02 15:36:12 what is that area where the battery status and clock is display called? System notification area? systray? status tray? Dec 02 15:36:31 status area Dec 02 15:36:34 pidgin 2.6.3-6nix0 is what i have at the moment Dec 02 15:36:34 ANd what is that thing that pops up when you tap it called? The one with shortcuts to clock, profile, bluetooth, internet connection, volume, and so on? Dec 02 15:36:42 status menu Dec 02 15:36:48 OK Dec 02 15:36:52 * mgedmin thinks Dec 02 15:36:53 ;) Dec 02 15:37:02 what's that thing you get when you press power? Dec 02 15:37:05 power menu? Dec 02 15:37:17 system ui Dec 02 15:37:54 Now, open browser, switch browser out of fullscreen, open status menu from status area. Browser is blurred out, press volume keys. Volume is not changed. (It is changed when browser isn't shown) Dec 02 15:38:07 Does that make sense? I'd really want it to change volume whenever status menu is out ;-) Dec 02 15:38:22 aSIMULAtor, ping Dec 02 15:38:30 ShadowJK: you can vote for that conversations font size bug too... Dec 02 15:38:49 I just wrote a hello world app, transfered it to mydocs and now I can't execute it as it wont let me tr to change permissions on the file, i do sudo gainroot; then chmod 777; ./helloARM Dec 02 15:39:00 wont work, permissions wont change, any idea? Dec 02 15:39:05 roundyz: mydocs is probably noexec Dec 02 15:39:12 (not sure though) Dec 02 15:39:19 jebbajeb, I guess, just to keep the zoom feature there :) Dec 02 15:39:45 :) Dec 02 15:39:53 yerh just got that, thanks Dec 02 15:40:25 ShadowJK, I can reproduce, and I too think that's a bug Dec 02 15:40:26 the exact opposite of my bug Dec 02 15:40:27 oh dear Dec 02 15:40:27 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=35686 Dec 02 15:40:36 (pink theme) Dec 02 15:40:52 hello kitty! Dec 02 15:40:58 Stskeeps: Thanks for making me vomit. Dec 02 15:41:04 qwerty12_N900: no problem Dec 02 15:41:24 hello shitty Dec 02 15:41:31 mgedmin, what's your bug? Dec 02 15:41:37 does fat even support file attributes, i don't remember? Dec 02 15:41:40 man, i just thought it was some sort of mockup, not a new theme yikes Dec 02 15:41:49 my pink highlight has just been set off Dec 02 15:41:50 @roundyz Dec 02 15:41:52 * Myrtti clicks Dec 02 15:42:05 Question is: Who's gonna be high enough to install it? Dec 02 15:42:22 OH JESUS Dec 02 15:42:35 heya maemo Dec 02 15:42:35 * w00t clicks Dec 02 15:42:40 my eyes, they burn Dec 02 15:42:42 lol is that for real? Dec 02 15:42:49 hey Dec 02 15:42:49 Myrtti: you've summoned me I suppose :D Dec 02 15:42:52 I really like that colour Dec 02 15:42:52 "Hello, Maemo" theme Dec 02 15:43:20 wowshit! Dec 02 15:43:21 qwerty12_N900: new game at maemo meetups.. get a person drunk and install hello kitty theme on the person's n900 Dec 02 15:43:22 ShadowJK, pet peeve rapidly approaching #1: when you get the silly recurring "Unable to connect to one or more accounts", volume keys control volume and not the app Dec 02 15:43:23 I'd seriously want to see that in use Dec 02 15:43:25 :P Dec 02 15:43:25 that's not hello kitty :) Dec 02 15:43:29 that's hello ACID :D Dec 02 15:43:36 ouch my eyeballs Dec 02 15:43:40 Stskeeps: I'm going to use that theme Dec 02 15:43:46 Stskeeps: nobody will ever dare steal my phone Dec 02 15:43:46 who knows, perhaps it's even usable Dec 02 15:43:51 Stskeeps: I wouldn't want to be held responsible for blinding someone Dec 02 15:43:52 # su - user Dec 02 15:43:53 $ passwd Dec 02 15:43:53 The password for user cannot be changed." Dec 02 15:43:55 Fuck Dec 02 15:45:00 interesting Dec 02 15:45:37 http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=405012&postcount=6 Dec 02 15:45:43 Anyone see the irony? Dec 02 15:46:26 had to comment Dec 02 15:46:59 haha Dec 02 15:47:04 who let God back in anyway Dec 02 15:47:29 morning all Dec 02 15:47:38 morning orbarron Dec 02 15:47:42 ok. So i want to scp videos over to "/home/user/MyDocs/.documents/Audio". I tried to change the password for "user" but, no go. I set up a /home/user/.ssh/authorized_keys file, but it still prompts for a password. How to scp over stuff to "user"'s directory? Just as root, then chown? Seems goofy. Dec 02 15:47:51 zaheer_: god dammit, my email notification went off.. i rush to my inbox: "Dear xxx@xxx.net receive 80% OFF on Pfizer" Dec 02 15:47:57 jebbajeb, use ssh keys, they're *awesome* Dec 02 15:48:05 w00t, lol Dec 02 15:48:08 Flandry: http://talk.maemo.org/member.php?u=25632 Dec 02 15:48:11 I see you created authorized keys Dec 02 15:48:20 check if the directory permissions are right, or ssh will ignore them Dec 02 15:48:28 look ok to me Dec 02 15:48:40 w00t: ...and that's all you will ever recieve! *hides* Dec 02 15:48:44 The devil has been thanked over 30 times Dec 02 15:48:57 jebbajeb, also, IIRC, I had to sudo gainroot, vi /etc/passwd and change user:! to user:* Dec 02 15:49:03 qwerty12_N900: :( Dec 02 15:49:03 before ssh accepted my logins Dec 02 15:49:05 I thanked him with a pint of your blood, Flandry Dec 02 15:49:15 oO Dec 02 15:49:35 * Flandry had been wondering about that needle mark on his arm Dec 02 15:50:04 mgedmin: cool, thanks. I had to edit /etc/passwd AND set a password for "user", now it works :) Dec 02 15:50:07 w00t: If it makes you happy, I have a picture of my N800, N810, and "my" N900 on a desk. Urge to kill rising? Dec 02 15:50:18 qwerty12_N900: yes. Dec 02 15:51:38 how do i obtain the UID in python... Dec 02 15:51:52 i know wrong forum.. but im not registerd...and was working on maemo only so asked... Dec 02 15:51:53 :) Dec 02 15:51:58 kinda forgot Dec 02 15:53:32 jebbajeb, I never set a password for user Dec 02 15:54:03 wrapster, os.getuid()? Dec 02 15:54:25 mgedmin: ah.. thanks.. Dec 02 16:01:13 submitted bug about volume slider in status menu when browser is in the bg Dec 02 16:01:41 * Arkenoi still owns a 770. runs os2007 (2008HE is too unstable and 2006 is too ugly) Dec 02 16:03:23 akiniemi, my 770 in rite next to the 900 though im running 2008HE needed it for something i thing bt Dec 02 16:04:44 I can't take this jazz! Apparently I have to wait in line AGAIN because they transferred me to tech support :[ Dec 02 16:05:19 Dont hang up Dec 02 16:05:37 Been on for 1.5jrs Dec 02 16:05:40 er hrs Dec 02 16:05:43 OUch Dec 02 16:06:00 Klowner: You mean that support couldn't help you!!! Dec 02 16:06:15 Klowner: you've got a broken mic? Dec 02 16:06:16 like like all he needs in=s an RMA Dec 02 16:06:21 correct, because it's a hardware problem Dec 02 16:06:24 yes Dec 02 16:06:46 Yeah - well - it's not unreasonable to assume that people asking for a RMA may be idiots. Dec 02 16:06:51 Unfortunately. Dec 02 16:06:52 your prob got dropped harder than the others Dec 02 16:07:34 and if they only had a clue Dec 02 16:08:24 but they only have a book they read from Dec 02 16:08:42 she told me to press the mic mute button Dec 02 16:08:54 the what? Dec 02 16:09:08 when making a call, you can mute Dec 02 16:09:16 that aint it though Dec 02 16:09:17 yeah Dec 02 16:09:28 i hoped that was what it was Dec 02 16:10:11 hmm. seems http://maemo.org/vote/vote.php?election_id=8 doesn't really work Dec 02 16:10:18 i only see green rectangles Dec 02 16:10:27 vs. a fictisious physical button Dec 02 16:15:10 Hello All Dec 02 16:15:25 huh, mail from mobilephonesdirect confirming they're shipping on Friday Dec 02 16:16:12 believe it when you see it Dec 02 16:16:15 and touch it Dec 02 16:16:28 I've no reason to distrust them Dec 02 16:16:30 * darktears is getting angry with the broken linker of maemo5 SDK Dec 02 16:17:07 * darktears still don't know why the linker is not capable to pick the library correctly Dec 02 16:17:18 MPD have been perfectly open through the whole process. And hey, we know that n900s have shipped already. Dec 02 16:18:26 now to setup mail ... hmmm Dec 02 16:20:58 would tunneling x11vnc via ssh greatly increase the load on the n900? Dec 02 16:20:58 hey bilboed-tp Dec 02 16:21:03 ccooke, you gettin another n900? Dec 02 16:21:04 as compared to running without it? Dec 02 16:21:18 mgedmin: and how do i get the current user's name? Dec 02 16:21:42 getpass.getuser() Dec 02 16:22:35 thanks Dec 02 16:22:49 lcuk: my wife's Dec 02 16:23:21 give her yours Dec 02 16:23:23 is anyone know how the fuck i can check where the linker is looking for libraries Dec 02 16:23:27 ? Dec 02 16:23:27 or is it a case of cold dead hands Dec 02 16:24:35 um Dec 02 16:24:48 lcuk: if I gave her mine, what would *I* use? :-) Dec 02 16:24:58 jebba900, on wlan? Dec 02 16:25:05 darktears: so you're after the dynamic linker, right? Dec 02 16:25:06 darktears, it looks where you tell it to, usually /usr/lib Dec 02 16:25:25 jebbajeb, on wlan? Dec 02 16:25:27 ccooke: yes Dec 02 16:26:00 kalikianatoli: no it doesn't i have a custom path for library i'm building sometimes it don't find it even though the lib is there Dec 02 16:26:06 ccooke: it's broken Dec 02 16:26:34 darktears: you've put a library in a location you've invented and the linker doesn't pick it up automatically? That's why it's "broken"? Dec 02 16:26:48 ccooke: i'm working with cmake, sometimes it works sometimes not, depending what i'm buiding Dec 02 16:26:56 ccooke: no using rpath-link Dec 02 16:27:17 i mean puting the absloute path doesn't work neither Dec 02 16:27:45 darktears, maybe you should first check if cmake is behaving correctly Dec 02 16:27:54 rather than blaming the linker Dec 02 16:28:02 Which app are people using to connect wiimotes to their n900s? Dec 02 16:28:06 it does Dec 02 16:28:12 darktears: The dynamic linker works on a set of configured library paths. Unless you're putting your library into one of those, you shouldn't expect it to work. Dec 02 16:28:36 Oli``, wiicontrol. it tends to crash after a while, though Dec 02 16:28:45 so you have to start it after playing for a bit Dec 02 16:28:54 kalikianatoli: okidoke Dec 02 16:29:00 seems to dislike if I switch windows Dec 02 16:29:37 ShadowJK: ya, on wlan. I was thinking it may increase CPU too much to encrypt it all Dec 02 16:29:40 kalikianatoli: does that show up as a joystick device? How does it work? Dec 02 16:29:49 kalikianatoli: i had to add that to cmake to properly link with system libraries -DCMAKE_EXE_LINKER_FLAGS=-Wl,-rpath-link,/usr/lib and to build Qt the same QMake needs to be modified to define rpath-link. For some reason, /usr/lib is not in the library search path for resolving Dec 02 16:30:36 http://maemo.org/vote/vote.php is broken in Firefox and Chromium ... :-/ Dec 02 16:31:11 Flandry, It sends keys as if it was a keyboard Dec 02 16:31:22 Error: unterminated string literal Dec 02 16:31:24 Source File: http://maemo.org/vote/vote.php Dec 02 16:31:25 and in the game you configure it in keyboard controls Dec 02 16:31:25 Line: 168, Column: 41 Dec 02 16:31:27 Source Code: Dec 02 16:31:28 listItemText = document.createTextNode('\'); Dec 02 16:32:03 here's a simple little script to connect conveniently to the N900 with VNC: http://pastebin.ca/1698590 Dec 02 16:32:36 ccooke: and adding extra path to the link using r-path to actually link with a library that you haven't yet install is perfectly valid, that how you deal if in your project you have libB which depends on a libA, and both of them are in the project you are building Dec 02 16:32:37 kalikianatoli: oh, that's right. i checked it out before and had forgotten. Dec 02 16:33:16 it would much easier to do that for uqm but i wanted to have a full analog control eventually Dec 02 16:33:41 2 hours of jazz, why nokia? why?! Dec 02 16:36:42 i'm in scratchbox writing python code but can't seem to import any pyqt modules Dec 02 16:37:09 can anybody tell me why in my scratchbox, after installing qt4-dev-tools and libqt4-dev i can't find qmake? Dec 02 16:37:10 from PyQt4 import * works, but not from PyQt4.QtGui import * Dec 02 16:37:47 apol_: i don't have it either :-S Dec 02 16:39:19 :/ in the FAQ they say it should be right after installing the packages :S Dec 02 16:40:02 where do the screenshots on m.o/downloads come from? Dec 02 16:40:51 * Flandry wonders if he missed another custom maemo control file tag Dec 02 16:40:59 apol_, did libqt4-dev pull in all the core deps? you could check what you have installed with dpkg -l *libqt4* Dec 02 16:41:03 Flandry: They are uploaded by the owner of the package Dec 02 16:41:08 It is not automated Dec 02 16:41:22 oh ok. Thanks fiferboy Dec 02 16:41:49 anyway, for qt-on-meamo questions you probably get more help @ #qt-maemo Dec 02 16:42:03 wait...doesn't debian make all qt packages modular? ie, id' have to download qtsql,etc seperately Dec 02 16:42:19 mikhas: why didn't i think of that. #maemo certainly wasn't any help :P Dec 02 16:42:28 mikhas: solved thanks Dec 02 16:42:45 aspidites, yes. and usually installing libqt4-dev should install the important modules *-core, -gui etc. Dec 02 16:43:26 hollywood is getting outta controll >> http://www.defectivebydesign.org/mpaa-drm-tv Dec 02 16:44:05 mikhas: ah. thats what i get for residing on an arch linux box. thanks for the map mikhas. headed to qt-maemo Dec 02 16:46:06 <|R> Is oMWeather that much of a battery drain like some people suggested on the forum or is it just because they have it on update every 10 minutes? Dec 02 16:46:39 Only one more tester needed! http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/uqm/0.6.7-0maemo/ Dec 02 16:47:28 uqm - urquan masters? Dec 02 16:47:40 yes Dec 02 16:47:59 that URL isn't even loading here.... Dec 02 16:48:03 ah now it finally has Dec 02 16:48:20 that part of m.o is slow Dec 02 16:49:26 downloading now via scratchbox. darn you all who have a device in hand :(...and congrats Dec 02 16:50:06 says i can't install because i don't have joydev. is that scratchbox exclusive? Dec 02 16:50:19 also, i thought apt did automatic dependency resolving? Dec 02 16:50:25 where do I find the Scummvm libs? I says its in the repos, but they arent there.. 'It requires some additional packages, all of which are available in the extras, extras-devel or extras-testing repositories, such as: libsdl, libmad, libvorbisidec, libflac, libasound.' Dec 02 16:50:43 aspidites: what you're getting is the newer version on -devel Dec 02 16:50:56 Flandry, is the -data package in user/ on purpose, by the way? Dec 02 16:51:01 aspidites: and yes it should, but that package doesn't exist Dec 02 16:51:21 the 3do data package is Dec 02 16:51:26 it's optional Dec 02 16:51:42 I mean uqm-data Dec 02 16:51:54 iit's in user? oO Dec 02 16:52:01 uhm.... in this utf election.... Dec 02 16:52:06 yes, it showed up here Dec 02 16:52:12 I have two green rectangles which are empty Dec 02 16:52:19 candidates, preferences. both empty. Dec 02 16:52:46 lardman were you trying to reach me? Dec 02 16:52:57 * Shapeshifter tries another browser Dec 02 16:53:21 kalikianatoli: what do you mean by "here"? Dec 02 16:53:31 the control file has Section: games Dec 02 16:53:48 well. empty rectangles in chromium and firefox. Dec 02 16:53:55 is there supposed to be something there? Dec 02 16:54:20 Flandry, oops, sorry. I checked again, it is really the 3do package. Dec 02 16:54:33 you had me worried :D Dec 02 16:54:56 * Shapeshifter tries yet another browser Dec 02 16:55:10 * kalikianatoli deforms Shapeshifter into a browser. Dec 02 16:55:25 kalikianatoli: I'm trying midori next :P Dec 02 16:55:25 ha Dec 02 16:55:39 Shapeshifter, good boy :-D Dec 02 16:56:11 * Flandry models Shapeshifter into a fennec, then a mobile fox, then gets confused Dec 02 16:56:23 also empty. Dec 02 16:56:35 I think this is broken Dec 02 16:57:11 aspidites: anyway, if i had an N900 i'd be the first tester on the list. Dec 02 16:57:48 aspidites: to install on sdk youll need to take the version in -testing Dec 02 16:58:58 Shapeshifter: midori "works", but screen refresh is *really* slow Dec 02 16:59:12 jebbajeb: mh? Dec 02 16:59:17 no, I'm talking about the poll Dec 02 16:59:23 * GeneralAntilles sighs at Maemo 6. Dec 02 16:59:43 ah Dec 02 16:59:56 jebbajeb: send flowers to kalikianatoli Dec 02 17:00:07 lol Dec 02 17:00:33 mhmh, besides €, what does this poll has to do with unicode? Dec 02 17:00:42 the Extra character election? I didn't get a vote token. Dec 02 17:00:43 ok Flandry Dec 02 17:01:03 jebbajeb: for midori :) Dec 02 17:01:17 ah heh Dec 02 17:01:36 i was surprised to see midori in repos already. looks decent :) Dec 02 17:01:51 also, i had checked to clear "personal data" on exit in midori, but it left a ~/.cache/midori directory full Dec 02 17:01:54 I kind-of miss some context for that poll Dec 02 17:02:05 Corsac: yeah. me as well. Dec 02 17:02:20 where does one get a vote token? Dec 02 17:02:39 Shapeshifter: and I have the green boxes too Dec 02 17:02:41 on firefox Dec 02 17:02:49 Corsac: yeah it's broken Dec 02 17:02:58 see http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=405315 Dec 02 17:03:04 that voting is broken - after login I got empty page Dec 02 17:03:10 wooooo promoted to extras :D Dec 02 17:03:28 jebbajeb, eek, I'm guessing ~/.cache/web to be exact? Dec 02 17:03:31 tnx Flandry for pointing me to the maemo.org/packages url. I found everything and its working now, thanks again ;) Dec 02 17:03:38 hey JPohlmann1 Dec 02 17:04:00 rEv9: glad i could help out Dec 02 17:04:24 Grr Dec 02 17:04:29 The goddamn apartments flooding. Dec 02 17:04:56 * SpeedEvil passes GeneralAntilles some sandbags. Dec 02 17:05:03 kalikianatoli: i blew it out, i can retest. But ya, i think it was ~/.cache/midori/web Dec 02 17:05:13 i'll retest now Dec 02 17:05:52 * Flandry still waiting for m.o to promote the package... Dec 02 17:06:50 GeneralAntilles: rain? Dec 02 17:06:54 GeneralAntilles: washing machine? Dec 02 17:06:58 GeneralAntilles: tears? Dec 02 17:08:05 * Flandry remembers that he should have made the new package only depend on joydev on armel Dec 02 17:08:19 that was painful, I guess they're sending me another N900.. hopefully it's overnight shipping again Dec 02 17:08:33 Klowner: what happened? Dec 02 17:08:55 Flandry: dead mic Dec 02 17:09:06 oh, the infamous Dec 02 17:09:13 Klowner, they sending you first or cross ship or send yours first? Dec 02 17:09:36 from what I understand they're sending a new one immediately and I have 6 days to ship this one back Dec 02 17:09:50 dose nokia have a history with dead mic's or something? Dec 02 17:10:01 kool Dec 02 17:10:02 Klowner: who pays for shipping of both? Dec 02 17:10:03 no but N900 has had a ... few Dec 02 17:10:35 read like a 20 page thread of dead mics Dec 02 17:10:58 hrw: Nokia Dec 02 17:11:14 well that's good Dec 02 17:11:35 yeah sounded like a rma in the box of the new one Dec 02 17:12:02 I feel like I can't play with this one because it's retarded Dec 02 17:12:14 haha Dec 02 17:12:23 ~seen jeremiah Dec 02 17:12:27 jeremiah is currently on #maemo (1d 12h 58m 19s), last said: 'heh'. Dec 02 17:12:57 kalikianatoli: confirmed. `rm -rf ~/.cache/midori ; rm -rf ~/.config/midori` Start midori. Go to some website. Click "Tools". Click "Clear Private Data". Check "Clear private data when quitting Midori" (but DON'T click "Clear private data" button). Tap blurry part at top to close private data window. Exit Midori. `ls -R ~/.cache/midori/web` and see the .pngs or whatever. Dec 02 17:13:05 which character would you be voting for anyway? Dec 02 17:13:16 |, & and $ are equally important for bash scripting. Dec 02 17:13:21 kalikianatoli: i can bugzilla it, if that's useful for you. Dec 02 17:13:26 and ( ) are very important Dec 02 17:13:28 for anything Dec 02 17:13:30 so what was the total amount of time on the phone with nokia Klowner Dec 02 17:13:32 ? Dec 02 17:14:43 jebbajeb, thanks for checking, I'll check it this evening. no bug needed, I'll take care of it Dec 02 17:15:08 * Flandry expects that smoke is rising from the m.o package servers Dec 02 17:15:13 kalikianatoli: np. thanks! :) Dec 02 17:19:00 jeremiah: with no resolution for https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6301 in sight, is it possible that you could promote http://maemo.org/packages/view/uqm-3do-data/ to either testing or extras? The app just went into extras. Dec 02 17:19:01 Bug 6301: Fatal error: Maximum execution time of 30 seconds exceeded in /mnt/netapp/pear/midcom/lib/org/maemo/packages/handler/repository/repository.php on line 542 Dec 02 17:21:42 what is the logic behind doing /home/user/MyDocs/.video instead of /home/user/MyDocs/video (e.g. why a hidden file)? Same for .documents etc. Dec 02 17:23:13 discussion on t.m.o: localization. It's renamed in file manager Dec 02 17:23:22 ah ok, makes sense Dec 02 17:24:50 * Flandry is still waiting for m.o to promote the package to extras Dec 02 17:25:55 jebbajeb: I just created my own Music and Video directories Dec 02 17:26:03 jebbajeb: and trackerd still found them Dec 02 17:26:24 * SpeedEvil wishes for a DAB transmitter. Dec 02 17:27:05 weird. I'm trying to log in to last.fm in Canola, but when I type a key in the Username: field it opens Contacts app! Dec 02 17:27:35 jebbajeb: file a bug! Dec 02 17:27:38 jebbajeb: I think canola has a problem with input currently Dec 02 17:27:41 known issue with toolkits Dec 02 17:27:48 crashanddie: ok Dec 02 17:27:49 to anyone who has submitted a patch in a bug report for maemo core apps: do they mark the bug report closed when they apply the patch? Dec 02 17:27:55 The key stroke goes to the desktop, which searches your contacts Dec 02 17:27:58 VDVsx should know more Dec 02 17:28:02 jebbajeb: actually, search for it first, I remember it being talked about during the summit Dec 02 17:28:13 ok Dec 02 17:28:13 now that was weird.... i had turned phone off and put it on charge to charge up a bit faster then i went to turn it on and it wouldnt just kept holding for a good long time ,,, then i popped the charger off and tried again nothing... so then i pulled the battery replaced it anf it started as normal Dec 02 17:28:13 hiya fiferboy \o Dec 02 17:28:13 and seb Dec 02 17:28:14 hey lcuk Dec 02 17:28:16 jebbajeb: you can vote for it on bmo Dec 02 17:28:26 hi lcuk. How's things? Dec 02 17:28:41 good so far Dec 02 17:28:47 lcuk: how's the job? Dec 02 17:28:49 its got about 3/4 charge Dec 02 17:28:51 just gettin ready, ive got an 8 hour trip tomorrow Dec 02 17:28:58 lcuk: where you going to? Dec 02 17:29:03 should be shorted but im touring europe Dec 02 17:29:05 barca Dec 02 17:29:12 via amsterdam Dec 02 17:29:21 barcelone via amsterdam? Dec 02 17:29:22 lol Dec 02 17:29:41 yeah pita Dec 02 17:29:50 heheh Dec 02 17:29:59 lcuk: you realise there's very regular and cheap flights from stansted and heathrow to girona? Dec 02 17:30:01 coming back i get to visit france Dec 02 17:30:01 lcuk: shiphol? Dec 02 17:30:19 lcuk: can you stick around until the 18th? :P Dec 02 17:30:25 stansted and heathrow are nearly 300 miles from me Dec 02 17:30:43 lcuk: if you let details stopping ya... Dec 02 17:30:44 hrw yeah think so Dec 02 17:30:53 hrw: which other main airport is there in holland? Dec 02 17:30:54 lcuk: how much time for a change? Dec 02 17:31:05 mjau Dec 02 17:31:09 not enough time to go visit city Dec 02 17:31:21 Flandry: I don't see why not. Dec 02 17:31:22 lemme check Dec 02 17:31:58 hrw: you got zestienhoven en aachen, but they're hardly of any size compared to schiphol Dec 02 17:32:00 ah, gah, it's not even free software (canola). instead of bugzilla, i remove.... Dec 02 17:32:01 Flandry: So I'm not sure I understand. The app just went into extras, but you want me to promote it to extras? Dec 02 17:32:22 Canola is not GPL? Dec 02 17:32:28 lcuk, nothing from manchester to bcn? Dec 02 17:32:49 hi, this is a very luser question, so apologies in advance, google didn't help. But on my N900 when I press enter in vim insert mode I get a capital M on the line above. How may I fix this? Dec 02 17:32:52 jeremiah: not according to this: https://garage.maemo.org/projects/canola/ Dec 02 17:33:07 The only way I found to get to Aachen was to fly to Schipol first. Dec 02 17:33:09 jeremiah: The app is in the process of being promoted to extras (10 minutes and counting on the reload...). This is the optional data package for it. It's just content Dec 02 17:33:13 fireswires, you're using screen, aren't you? Dec 02 17:33:19 or were using screen in that xterm session Dec 02 17:33:42 neither Dec 02 17:33:43 zaheer_, i asked the same question myself, im not just gonna wildly go for a tour for no reason \o/ Dec 02 17:33:56 lcuk, wow that is a shock and a half Dec 02 17:33:59 * lcuk hates flying at best of times, actually, i hate takeoff and landing Dec 02 17:34:02 jebbajeb: Wow. That kinda sucks. Dec 02 17:34:02 lcuk, what do you need ? :P Dec 02 17:34:02 lcuk: that's what you get for living in the north :P Dec 02 17:34:04 fireswires, workarounds: (a) don't use screen, (b) use ctrl-j or ctrl-m instead of the enter key (c) map OM | map! OM Dec 02 17:34:19 Flandry: Is it a dependency? Dec 02 17:34:24 lcuk: go to some widely easy place to get, such as brisbane or something :P Dec 02 17:34:25 VDVsx, onfirmation of the bug with search and contacts when you use keyboard Dec 02 17:34:25 fireswires, I use vim on my n900 and my enter key works fine -- why doesn't yours? Dec 02 17:34:28 If so it should get promoted with the app Dec 02 17:34:29 lol Dec 02 17:34:29 jeremiah: no, it's optional Dec 02 17:34:32 ah Dec 02 17:34:33 okya Dec 02 17:34:38 or okay rather Dec 02 17:35:04 fireswires, did you run mc, or any other ncurses-based app in that xterm? Dec 02 17:35:15 does it do the same if you open a new xterm window? Dec 02 17:35:18 lcuk, that a bug on hildon-desktop Dec 02 17:35:23 lcuk, there are none with BA...but easyjet fly from liverpool john lennon Dec 02 17:35:27 brand new terminal same issue Dec 02 17:35:33 When a 121 page PDF starts with "A sophisticated, feature-rich solution with high security and privacy protection,", you just know you're going to have a good time Dec 02 17:35:34 weird Dec 02 17:35:58 lcuk, here is the Qt fix as example: http://qt.gitorious.org/+qt-maemo-developers/qt/qt-maemo/commit/fbf22e64599b220cf95ca90d27d0eb6cdeaa91fe Dec 02 17:36:09 IcanCU: no, you can't Dec 02 17:36:26 better get dressed Dec 02 17:37:06 I'm in the office, next to the CFO, undressed wouldn't work -- I'm not a hot 20 yo busty blonde Dec 02 17:37:38 Yes you are. Dec 02 17:37:45 but are you a girl? Dec 02 17:37:53 Mousey: no, thank god for that Dec 02 17:38:02 If you weren't a 20 busty blonde I wouldn't talk to you. Dec 02 17:38:12 20 busts? Dec 02 17:38:22 Stskeeps: wtf are you doing with ops? Dec 02 17:38:27 Stskeeps: get down Dec 02 17:38:29 that's a lot of girls to put up with Dec 02 17:38:37 He's Stskeeps Dec 02 17:38:42 He can do whatever he wants Dec 02 17:38:43 err.. Dec 02 17:38:44 crashanddie, his ass is deputized. Dec 02 17:38:46 why do i have op Dec 02 17:38:58 Stskeeps: /deop #maemo Stskeeps Dec 02 17:38:59 For operating Dec 02 17:39:03 In case pupnik goes off his meds again. ;) Dec 02 17:39:12 * Flandry watches #maemo go to hell in a handbasket again Dec 02 17:39:14 lulz Dec 02 17:39:19 GeneralAntilles: we has you which should be enough Dec 02 17:39:36 crashanddie, not when I'm sleeping or at class. Dec 02 17:39:40 * jeremiah smacks them both pre-emptively. Dec 02 17:39:51 god, still going with that school masquerade? Dec 02 17:40:01 GeneralAntilles: hopefully not permanent :P Dec 02 17:40:01 stop playing around, we need you in the industry Dec 02 17:40:02 jebbajeb, canola uses GPL v3, the info in that page is outdated Dec 02 17:40:03 Yeah! School? Pffff Dec 02 17:40:17 crashanddie, yeah, I'm tired of it too. Dec 02 17:40:21 VDVsx: how does one get license info with `dpkg` /usr/share/docs has been blown out. Dec 02 17:40:23 mgedmin: Dec 02 17:40:30 crashanddie, I had a dream about dropping out and joining the Marines last week. Dec 02 17:40:32 VDVsx: i'll file bug about incorrect license info. Dec 02 17:40:34 VDVsx: Nice catch Dec 02 17:40:43 fireswires, ? Dec 02 17:40:44 GeneralAntilles: I said the industry, not the mindless fucks Dec 02 17:40:48 GeneralAntilles: I don't recommend it. Dec 02 17:40:59 Unless you want to go to Afghanistan Dec 02 17:40:59 GeneralAntilles: plus you're skinny, you'd be a rop Dec 02 17:41:08 No 3G Dec 02 17:41:16 aieee! Dec 02 17:41:21 how do the live there? Dec 02 17:41:22 See Dec 02 17:41:32 I wouldn't call it living Dec 02 17:41:36 VDVsx: should things like that be filed in bugs.maemo.org or in garage's bug system? Dec 02 17:41:45 jeremiah, maybe the airforce, then. Those C-130s have WiFi, right? Dec 02 17:41:55 jebbajeb: Well, you could just send a mail to the project, might be faster. :) Dec 02 17:42:00 jebbajeb, Garage is never the answer. Dec 02 17:42:15 GeneralAntilles: They love people who know how to use computers - maybe they'd have you fly a drone? Dec 02 17:42:16 GeneralAntilles: or you could try an inflection on the xkcd comic: "RYAN, GET YOUR ASS ON THAT MACHINE GUN, THEY'RE BUTCHERING US HERE" "Hang on sir, someone is WRONG on TMO" Dec 02 17:42:17 jebbajeb, BMO, there a canola produte there Dec 02 17:42:32 heh Dec 02 17:42:46 jebbajeb, in case you don't know there's also a canola irc channel (#canola) Dec 02 17:42:46 TMO Dec 02 17:42:56 GeneralAntilles: unless the question is "where can you hide a body for a few hours while mixing cement" Dec 02 17:43:53 VDVsx: thx again, going #canola Dec 02 17:44:24 The location stuff for Telepathy should really tell you the state for US locations. Dec 02 17:45:09 VDVsx, yeah i know that i fixed it before qt did, it was for someone mentioning about canola experiencing it Dec 02 17:45:55 lcuk, yes EFL suffer for this issue Dec 02 17:46:26 hmm how long should the page load take for a package promotion request anyway Dec 02 17:46:46 mgedmin: that map works well. thank you Dec 02 17:48:04 * lardman|home now has 2 GB in his N140 Dec 02 17:48:06 last night on a conf call, some manager yells at a chick in Oz: "You can slap him on the head now", she replies: "Which one?", and I jump in: "He's got two heads?"... There was a big silence, I just understood how ambiguous our combined statements were Dec 02 17:48:37 lol Dec 02 17:48:53 anyway, fag break, see ya in a bit Dec 02 17:49:14 * lardman|home is shocked at how long cln takes to build Dec 02 17:49:38 ok, #canola is fixing license if they can figure out how. In bugs.m.o, the version numbers of canola are old though (just list betas). Wonder who to poke to update that. #canola folks directed me here for that heh Dec 02 17:49:44 lardman|home, the N140 is the Maemo 6 device, isn't it? Dec 02 17:49:51 Everybody find him and kill him! Dec 02 17:49:57 that's the one ;) Dec 02 17:50:15 How's the Samsung? Dec 02 17:50:21 hmm, I thought you'd just signed my death warrant and left Dec 02 17:50:25 yeah, seems ok Dec 02 17:50:32 I put 2GB in my Mini 9. Dec 02 17:50:32 does the job I bought it for anyway Dec 02 17:50:39 It seems silly with an 8GB SSD. Dec 02 17:50:47 ah, I have 250Gb Dec 02 17:50:58 spinny hdd though Dec 02 17:51:07 but that's fine, as I deal with large data files Dec 02 17:52:03 * lardman|home wonders what gecebekcisi's avatar says Dec 02 17:53:21 ah, an email address Dec 02 17:53:30 datamatrix barcodes don't scan so well Dec 02 17:53:46 ~lart libdmtx for not working very well with out of focus images Dec 02 17:53:47 * infobot hurls dozens of incontinent, insomniac, hungry kittens with tiny little razor-sharp claws and a wide variety of contagious intestinal parasites at libdmtx for not working very well with out of focus images Dec 02 17:54:18 so is it possible to alter the app that is launched when the camera shutter-thing is opened? Dec 02 17:54:35 Flandry: Yeah, that page takes a long time. :/ Dec 02 17:54:41 We are going to work on it. Dec 02 17:54:57 lardman|home: unfortunately - no Dec 02 17:55:03 file a bug! Dec 02 17:55:08 but it should work, even if it doesn't finish loading after an hour? Dec 02 17:55:15 you can detect it and switch yourself to the front atm though Dec 02 17:55:22 that's what qik does Dec 02 17:55:27 konttori: as long as no-one has beat me to it! :) Dec 02 17:55:42 Flandry: Well, it should Dec 02 17:55:48 So, who's going to Barcelona that can tell me how I should get to the hotel from the airport? Dec 02 17:55:52 I'll check to see if it is showing up Dec 02 17:56:02 GeneralAntilles: Are you going to Barca? Dec 02 17:56:07 You lucky brat Dec 02 17:56:42 jeremiah, not feeling so lucky about it at the moment. Dec 02 17:56:53 It's feeling rather inconvenient, in fact. Dec 02 17:57:07 oh Dec 02 17:57:09 sorry. Dec 02 17:57:12 Yeah. ;) Dec 02 17:57:26 Still. Dec 02 17:57:26 Apartment flooding, still need to drive down to St. Pete for my flight tomorrow afternoon. Dec 02 17:57:30 Exams start next week, too. Dec 02 17:57:37 Exams? Pffft Dec 02 18:01:58 Klowner: wow I feel sorry for you Dec 02 18:02:02 that totally sucks Dec 02 18:03:09 GeneralAntilles, did you read the travel part in the wiki? Dec 02 18:03:31 zaheer_, ah! Missed the part. Dec 02 18:03:43 I just noticed my 6310i was made in germany >.> Dec 02 18:03:48 crashanddie: done: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6511 Dec 02 18:03:49 Bug 6511: Canola last.fm plugin doesn't allow you to enter username/password Dec 02 18:03:52 GeneralAntilles, i put in info re: taxi, train and bus options Dec 02 18:03:53 no wonder it's so good. Dec 02 18:04:15 zaheer_, yeesh, I'm gonna guess I'd better take a taxi. Dec 02 18:04:23 Are the taxis cash-only over there or do they take Visa? Dec 02 18:04:34 visa? Dec 02 18:04:42 do taxis here take visa? Dec 02 18:04:50 Depends on the city. Dec 02 18:05:18 My dad once fell from his bike while doing 50km/h and landed on this 6310i and all it suffered were a couple of scratches on the back of it. Dec 02 18:05:22 GeneralAntilles, depends, mostly cash Dec 02 18:05:37 Need to get some money in the airport, then. Dec 02 18:05:39 GeneralAntilles, tehre are some but you won't be able to ask for one that takes visa Dec 02 18:05:50 extra char selection is working for me in firefox 3.5.5 (fedora 12). But TAB isn't listed for vote! Dec 02 18:06:00 jebbajeb: they fixed it. Dec 02 18:06:08 I miss ^ Dec 02 18:06:08 ^^ Dec 02 18:06:38 jeremiah: still no promotion. Should i click the link again? Dec 02 18:06:42 GeneralAntilles, 20 euros should cover the cab ride (it's a minimum 20 euros from bcn airport to anywhere, but cornella is not far from airport...it usually costs me 20 euros to the world trade centrew hich is in central barcelona quite a bit further than cornella is) Dec 02 18:07:02 Flandry: Try that - see what happens. Dec 02 18:07:06 Flandry: If it doesn't work Dec 02 18:07:21 I'll have to go spelunking in the code / database Dec 02 18:08:15 Interesting Dec 02 18:08:38 Server Error Dec 02 18:08:38 Package has already been promoted. Dec 02 18:08:38 Error 500 Dec 02 18:09:58 It now shows up as being on both extras and extras-testing. Is that normal? Dec 02 18:10:23 Under "latest version" Dec 02 18:11:27 moo all Dec 02 18:11:32 Shapeshifter: it's quite a bummer, thank you for your sympathy Dec 02 18:11:32 Flandry, makes sense to me. so users can just use devel to get everything Dec 02 18:12:57 It's not showing in downloads page yet however. Dec 02 18:12:58 * GeneralAntilles wonders how much of the agenda is in Spanish. Dec 02 18:13:09 Todo Dec 02 18:13:20 GeneralAntilles, i'm guessing most people will be locals Dec 02 18:13:24 there another nokia/maemo conf? BCN? Dec 02 18:13:24 and that doesn't mean "to be done" :P Dec 02 18:13:52 jebbajeb, mameo long weekend barcelona Dec 02 18:14:36 jebbajeb, it's in cornella de llobregat not barcelona city Dec 02 18:17:23 Is there no automation of the m.o/downloads page, then? All the apps there are added by hand? Dec 02 18:18:33 Flandry, they're added automatically from Extras. Dec 02 18:18:38 No automation of the downloads page? I'm having second thought about buying an N900.. Dec 02 18:18:57 rashed2020, what in the world does automation of the Downloads page have to do with you? Dec 02 18:19:11 it's a separate process than promotion i see Dec 02 18:19:17 VDVsx, you land 10 mins after me and tim are we meeting in airport Dec 02 18:19:22 thanks for info Dec 02 18:19:23 GeneralAntilles: Sarcasm, friend. Dec 02 18:19:36 rashed2020, ah, well then. Dec 02 18:19:54 lcuk, humm, Tim also sent me a email Dec 02 18:20:02 and I also will wait for yerga Dec 02 18:20:07 good idea Dec 02 18:20:09 Plus, all the channels I'm usually in are dead. Dec 02 18:20:14 time for coffee and a smoke Dec 02 18:20:20 lcuk, :) Dec 02 18:22:28 same going back as well, might as well hop in taxis, martin grimme asked for taxi share Dec 02 18:22:32 makes sense to fill one up Dec 02 18:23:09 where can i find list of the default N900 repository? Not the Extras, the ones enabled by default, Dec 02 18:24:23 Venomrush: I am not sure what you want - the ones already installed on your device? Dec 02 18:24:31 If so, you can look in the Application Manager Dec 02 18:24:35 lcuk, VDVsx, yerga: there are 2 terminals that are not very close in bcn...remember that when deciding where to meet, some may be in T1 some in T2 Dec 02 18:24:40 lizardo: have you been able to push the new python towards extras (proper) Dec 02 18:25:03 zaheer_, yikes! Dec 02 18:25:09 ah i meant Dec 02 18:25:12 is there a wiki page Dec 02 18:25:18 listing all the repos Dec 02 18:25:22 defaults + extras Dec 02 18:25:27 Venomrush: Not really. Dec 02 18:25:36 Venomrush: What are you looking for? Dec 02 18:25:39 A specific app? Dec 02 18:25:43 Or a specific repo? Dec 02 18:25:55 zaheer_, terminal 2 is for domestic flights ? Dec 02 18:26:01 konttori: looks like someone did that yesterday :) Dec 02 18:26:01 lcuk, best to check your airlines, i can tell you which for which Dec 02 18:26:09 VDVsx, no both are international terminals Dec 02 18:26:13 oouu! really? great! Dec 02 18:26:16 konttori: see http://maemo.org/packages/view/python2.5/ Dec 02 18:26:21 domestic as in "inter EU" flights methinks Dec 02 18:26:46 suihkulokki, same, both have international and inter european flights Dec 02 18:26:52 so, what's the best way to push end users to upgrade to it? Dec 02 18:27:08 "In the last year alone, Sprint turned over users' GPS data to authorities 8 million times." Dec 02 18:27:17 asking gpodder, fmradio to start depending on that with >= dependency? Dec 02 18:27:31 konttori: exactly. and every other python app Dec 02 18:27:37 konttori: Oh, I know Dec 02 18:27:39 konttori: well, that is being discussed on the mailing list ... it seems HAM does not suport upgrading non user/* packages :( Dec 02 18:27:43 i am terminal 1 Dec 02 18:27:48 lcuk, me too Dec 02 18:27:55 then thats easy lol Dec 02 18:27:57 konttori: New Vagalume is coming. Contact its author quickly and ask him to depend on python 2.5 Dec 02 18:28:10 konttori: That will guarantee everyone switches Dec 02 18:28:19 lizardo: so, setting python-runtime meta-package as a user/other would make is upgradeable Dec 02 18:28:24 moo VDVsx Dec 02 18:28:52 and would also probably help in visibility to the users as well (so not such a bad thing in the end) Dec 02 18:29:01 hi, I added some web shortcuts on the desktop, I'd like to edit the titles, I can't find the files on home directory, any hint? thanks Dec 02 18:29:11 RST38h, hey :) Dec 02 18:29:30 Hilarious, simply hilarious: http://gizmodo.com/5417225/sprint-to-humans-we-know-where-you-are-and-so-do-the-police?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+gizmodo%2Ffull+%28Gizmodo%29&utm_content=Google+Feedfetcher Dec 02 18:29:49 hmm.. HAM should still be fixed, else we'll end up eventually having all packages in user/* Dec 02 18:29:53 konttori: not really... the python-runtime package is a metapackage intended for developers, not end users Dec 02 18:30:20 lizardo, with the right permission you can upload directly to extras, at least the 'new users' will have the optified version Dec 02 18:30:42 hmm i'm trying to get it from sources.list but don't have enough permission even with gainroot Dec 02 18:30:54 konttori: see http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-developers/2009-December/022765.html for the gory details Dec 02 18:31:00 how do i open /etc/apt/sources.list from terminal? Dec 02 18:31:11 already gainroot Dec 02 18:31:18 VDVsx: the packages are already in extras-testing Dec 02 18:31:19 Venomrush: vi /etc/apt/sources.list Dec 02 18:31:22 but still got an error saying no permission Dec 02 18:31:32 VDVsx: IMHO that does not sound like the right solution :/ Dec 02 18:32:01 Venomrush: there is no /etc/apt/sources.list, there are some files under sources.list.d/ Dec 02 18:32:20 lizardo, upgrade is impossible in the short term :( Dec 02 18:32:24 konttori: in summary: the only solution right now is to have your packages depend on python2.5 (>= 2.5.4-1maemo5) Dec 02 18:33:40 lizardo, as I said you can put the packages directly in extras, but that doesn't grant the upgrade for the existent users :( Dec 02 18:33:49 lizardo, on my n900 i saved 14MB by upgrading python :) Dec 02 18:34:30 VDVsx, yah that kinda sucks Dec 02 18:34:34 suihkulokki: cheers, got it Dec 02 18:34:46 VDVsx: I prefer some good guy changing their Python application do depend on python2.5 (>= 2.5.4-1maemo5) and have that application in extras, so the entire optified python will be pushed together :) Dec 02 18:34:48 lizardo, the only solution that I can see here, is ship python in a SSU and promote the new packages to extras Dec 02 18:35:14 VDVsx: I don't really know how to do that Dec 02 18:35:46 hmm. this character election thing, is that for the on screen symbol keybd on the n900? Dec 02 18:35:53 lizardo: you can't Dec 02 18:35:56 lizardo, I can help you with the promotion (can bug someone), about the SSU I can't Dec 02 18:35:58 VDVsx: well, if you have such permissions , feel free to do that, I really haven't the power to do that Dec 02 18:36:13 VDVsx, python is already in extras Dec 02 18:36:21 lizardo, I don't have but can ask the ones that have Dec 02 18:36:22 VDVsx, his new package that is Dec 02 18:36:38 zaheer_: not really, it is in extras-testing :) Dec 02 18:36:57 VDVsx: but the whole thing is , other developers are starting to have the same problem Dec 02 18:37:10 VDVsx: (see the thread on the list) Dec 02 18:37:19 lizardo, aah shit i didn't notice the difference in the digit at end :) Dec 02 18:37:21 yeah, but that HAM fault :( Dec 02 18:37:45 is there a bug against HAM on the nonupgradeability of libs? Dec 02 18:37:46 VDVsx: I mean, it is not a python specific thing Dec 02 18:37:58 the community can't do anything about it, I guess Dec 02 18:38:04 lizardo, I know Dec 02 18:38:06 i don't understand why we can't have a big scrollable character table to choose from. perhaps we can. can anyone explain the point of the election? Dec 02 18:38:15 VDVsx, my wife got the zoutube update today in status bar, when we updated it 2 days ago Dec 02 18:38:27 eheh Dec 02 18:38:49 so not sure how often that thing checks for new updates Dec 02 18:39:11 fnordianslip, search the mailinglist archives for the related discussion Dec 02 18:39:25 VDVsx: thanks. Dec 02 18:39:42 VDVsx: is that tthe dev mailing list? Dec 02 18:39:48 I didn't get any mail about the vote Dec 02 18:39:57 VDVsx: OK Dec 02 18:40:11 mikkov: looks like it went to spam filter for some Dec 02 18:40:16 if the voting instructions don't explain what's it about, it's broken Dec 02 18:41:01 hi Dec 02 18:41:05 We are running an election to see which of the following characters Dec 02 18:41:05 are most important to you on Maemo: Dec 02 18:41:06 $ % & ( ) < = > \ _ | ~ £ € Dec 02 18:41:07 mikkov: unfortunately I think its description was too short so most people will see as "wtf?" if they didn't follow the discussion :( Dec 02 18:41:21 fnordianslip, http://n2.nabble.com/Requesting-an-election-for-Unicode-characters-td4075339.html#a4075339 Dec 02 18:41:43 er, all of them are equally important. how do i express that adequately in a vote? Dec 02 18:41:44 where do we vote? Dec 02 18:41:56 lizardo: found the mail from spambox :) Dec 02 18:42:08 same here Dec 02 18:42:08 supply blank devices and a sharpie Dec 02 18:42:29 mikkov: I think google didn't like these random characters in the body message :) Dec 02 18:42:43 dneary is a known spamer :P Dec 02 18:43:10 ok, the mail doesn't explain basically at all what's it about Dec 02 18:43:33 results are probably not going to be any use Dec 02 18:43:40 mikkov: i agree. Dec 02 18:43:41 Can I get any advice from N900 owners if there are any? Dec 02 18:43:49 Fire: define owner Dec 02 18:43:50 :P Dec 02 18:43:52 Fire: away Dec 02 18:43:58 there are no n900 owners Dec 02 18:44:03 it's all a lie =) Dec 02 18:44:31 I am hesitant to get an N900, I had an Iphone then black berry bold and now I am looking for something new, how complete is N900 compared to those 2? Dec 02 18:44:35 in soviet russia, the n900s own you Dec 02 18:44:43 I saw reviews and most of them say for early adopters Dec 02 18:44:59 wheres @bergie, fire: you will want to ask him Dec 02 18:45:18 fire: since he's actually used an iphone as well Dec 02 18:45:19 if you had a crackberry then your use cases are probably very specific already and most likely not covered by modest et al. Dec 02 18:45:39 well I use mail and chats a lot Dec 02 18:46:01 I don't game on my phone mostly but I don't mind a nice platform game Dec 02 18:46:09 chat works great on the device, mail ... needs some improvement. havent used the exchange sync yet Dec 02 18:46:09 the conversations system is very nice on n900 Dec 02 18:46:20 very very nice Dec 02 18:46:25 +1 Dec 02 18:46:31 and supertux rocks Dec 02 18:46:37 as a platformer Dec 02 18:46:45 well the support worries me, is nokia even doing anything to update this device? Dec 02 18:46:55 oh yeah Dec 02 18:47:06 Fire, yes, there are updates over wlan Dec 02 18:47:07 knowing nokia they will fix it on a new device... Dec 02 18:47:09 and the hackers Dec 02 18:48:14 disabling the FM Tx on charge is a real PITA. anyone know if we can hack around that, perhaps in the kernel, or is the interlock in hardware? Dec 02 18:48:25 * lcuk ponders if theres a supertux thread Dec 02 18:49:09 are the flashers at http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/d3.php the most recent ones available? Dec 02 18:49:12 fnordianslip: the whole fmtx "middleware" is closed Dec 02 18:49:19 so, bug nokia.. Dec 02 18:49:27 it appears that the mac os one is still stuck on powerpc and only claims to be able to do the N770... Dec 02 18:49:27 stupid question but is there a chance that the n900 updates to maemo 6 when ever that comes out Dec 02 18:49:40 copumpkin: No - it works with Snow Leopard Dec 02 18:49:44 And the N900 Dec 02 18:49:50 jeremiah: oh cool, it's just mislabeled then? Dec 02 18:49:51 I have tested. Dec 02 18:49:55 Yeah, :/ Dec 02 18:50:00 Fire: noone knows Dec 02 18:50:03 lizardo: thanks for the link. yeah, that seems to be the case. shame. Dec 02 18:50:06 javispedro: bugger. Dec 02 18:50:14 jeremiah: no issues with ppc over rosetta? Dec 02 18:50:23 rosetta? Dec 02 18:50:28 I know this might be premature, but where would you go to obtain information on offical firmware process.. Dec 02 18:50:34 the ppc "VM" Dec 02 18:50:36 Why would the chip matter? Dec 02 18:50:48 What VM? Dec 02 18:50:51 well the flasher on that site claims it's for powerpc macs Dec 02 18:50:55 fire: there are rumours that maemo6 will use multitouch very heavily which means N900 will be kinda cripled with it since the resistive touchscreen cannot do multi Dec 02 18:50:57 okay Dec 02 18:51:18 Maemo Unicode preference election - voting instructions Dec 02 18:51:18 I'll try it :) Dec 02 18:51:19 FAIL Dec 02 18:51:22 they dodn Dec 02 18:51:22 I have a intel Mac mini - seemed to work fine Dec 02 18:51:28 cool Dec 02 18:51:28 they didn't encode the email properly Dec 02 18:52:01 fire: of course someone might hack it to sorta work anyway Dec 02 18:52:24 fire: people hacked diablo (the n810 os) to sorta work on the n770 Dec 02 18:53:14 i still wonder how the hacking is gonna get round the lack of holographic screen and lightsabre clip thenext device is rumoured to have Dec 02 18:53:19 mashiara: well I am just making sure how long before I need a new phone, I am definitely going to get something new but I am not sure if the N900 is the one Dec 02 18:53:57 fire: it depends on how much you like hacking... Dec 02 18:54:03 I am not fond of linux to be honest, I had some bad times with it Dec 02 18:54:18 lol Dec 02 18:54:51 while I would jailbreak an Iphone if I get one I am not sure if N900 is as easy to hack and mod Dec 02 18:55:04 fire: ?? Dec 02 18:55:04 linux is never simple Dec 02 18:55:06 Fire: sudo gainroot Dec 02 18:55:12 fire: the platform is open Dec 02 18:55:13 then buy an iphone Dec 02 18:55:28 fire: making simple python applications is trivial Dec 02 18:55:51 fire: and you have full control of your device out of the box, no need to "jailbreak" Dec 02 18:56:11 mashiara: oh yes I am aware of that, but I rather not have to "rewrite" anything Dec 02 18:56:49 I think that maemo extras will kill the need for most users to even use the terminal Dec 02 18:56:51 Fire: you're not supposed to write a new os... Dec 02 18:57:01 I mean, why would you jailbreak the iphone? Dec 02 18:57:03 if you have invested time in objective-c app writing for iphone Dec 02 18:57:11 THEN YOU HAVE FAILED Dec 02 18:57:18 AND MAY LEAVE Dec 02 18:57:51 harsh Dec 02 18:57:54 then rewriting definitely is an issue since the whole framework is completely different Dec 02 18:58:15 LOL @ "We are running an election to see which of the following characters are most important to you on Maemo" Dec 02 18:58:20 but somehow I doubt it, there is a "web runtime" coming for running html+js widgets Dec 02 18:58:23 no mention of hardware keyboards in that email Dec 02 18:58:39 it's just a "unicode preference election" Dec 02 18:58:58 ooooh that kind of character Dec 02 18:59:13 I've never been a fan of the ampersand, myself... I'd like to see it banished Dec 02 18:59:24 i was trying to figure out if it was a popularity contest or mascot contest Dec 02 18:59:31 did i see somewhere that python widgets are appearing now Dec 02 18:59:38 Anyways, thanks for the help Dec 02 18:59:47 copumpkin, http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/maemo-dev-env-downloads.php Dec 02 19:00:06 lcuk: they've been coming on the desktop linuxes for three or four years now Dec 02 19:00:37 GeneralAntilles: ooh nice Dec 02 19:01:08 copumpkin: i also have a mac but i suggest you to use command line flasher... Dec 02 19:01:09 lol Myrtti Dec 02 19:01:48 Lorthirk: what parameters should I pass to it? Dec 02 19:01:54 it seems to accept a bajillion different options :) Dec 02 19:02:02 Fire, if you want an open platform that you don't have to fight with your operator and your manufacturer to use and don't mind a few warts, then go with the N900. Dec 02 19:02:12 jeremiah, Rosetta is the PPC emulation for Intel Macs. Dec 02 19:02:29 https://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_firmware Dec 02 19:02:31 jeremiah, the old flasher builds pre-3.5 are all built for PPC and thus need to run under Rosetta. Dec 02 19:02:38 Everybody should be using flasher-3.5, though. Dec 02 19:02:41 Ah Dec 02 19:02:44 Good Dec 02 19:02:54 Someone here knows what the hell is going on. Dec 02 19:02:57 Clearly not me. Dec 02 19:05:47 Ok. I compiled Nethack. I compiled vultures.o. HOW THE HELL DO I COMBINE THEM? Dec 02 19:06:18 black magic Dec 02 19:06:42 this is weird. Dec 02 19:07:25 hello Dec 02 19:09:55 GeneralAntilles: I keep hearing N900 for hackers and early adopters but how much do I need to hack it if I do to make it work as it should Dec 02 19:10:06 I was hoping to install a few apps and use it Dec 02 19:10:09 Fire, depends entirely on your use-case. Dec 02 19:10:54 Mail applications, chat, GPS and obviously as a phone Dec 02 19:11:08 Out of the box, it's a fantastic web browser, an excellent IM/SMS machine, an excellent camera, an excellent XTerm, a good gaming platform, a good email client, etc. Dec 02 19:11:15 The main reason I want to move to a new phone is the fact that the bold has horrible GPS Dec 02 19:11:19 Phone is OK to good depending on the features you need. Dec 02 19:11:32 Ovi Maps is complete and utter shit, but there's a half dozen other options out there. Dec 02 19:11:41 The GPS hardware is competent enough Dec 02 19:11:56 Maemo Mapper is a reasonable free solution if you don't require turn-by-turn Dec 02 19:12:08 Sygic is releasing a port, though. Dec 02 19:12:25 ovi maps is the worst app there, but with a netowrk connection is ok if you want a way to find where you are and where something else is Dec 02 19:12:30 Fire, make sure to test the microphone quickly though. Some have problems with that. Dec 02 19:12:46 eh, just use google maps for now, and wait for 3rd party apps Dec 02 19:12:57 but yeah, gps ... Dec 02 19:13:07 any other issues I need to look out for? Dec 02 19:15:44 Fun diversion: http://www.xritephoto.com/ph_toolframe.aspx?action=coloriq I scored a 3. Dec 02 19:17:55 is OS2008 the latest thing I can get for the N800? Dec 02 19:18:01 ~mer Dec 02 19:18:03 somebody said mer was http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer, or on #mer Dec 02 19:18:06 Not day-to-day usable yet, however. Dec 02 19:18:15 http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/ seems to be the latest thing listed on here, but not sure that's up to date Dec 02 19:18:30 It is. Dec 02 19:18:42 except for the mac os flasher, I guess :) Dec 02 19:20:35 Hi guys... when i try to update my scratchbox repo, i get all sort of errors like "Temporary failure resolving 'repository.maemo.org'. Anyone knows why is that? Dec 02 19:22:37 Makavel: Try (from your host system) "cp /etc/resolv.conf /scratchbox/etc" Dec 02 19:22:45 i get a ping response Dec 02 19:25:26 fiferboy: it worked nicely now. Thanks Dec 02 19:25:33 NP Dec 02 19:26:18 How does Maemo treat ICS files downloaded from the browser? Dec 02 19:26:25 <|R> ah Dec 02 19:26:31 fiferboy: one more problem i just found out... I added a repo and now i get an error - "GPG error" Dec 02 19:26:32 <|R> oops Dec 02 19:27:01 Makavel: That is a signing thing in the repo, I'm not sure if the repo is signed and if the key is available Dec 02 19:27:20 Makavel: Usually safe to ignore for the maemo.org repos, I belevie Dec 02 19:27:50 fiferboy: It was PySide's repo i added Dec 02 19:27:51 I entered "red pill" mode but the list of installable applications is tiny Dec 02 19:28:07 RST38h: did yous saw vultures has debian packaging template in dist/linux/debian ? Dec 02 19:28:12 GeneralAntilles, i deffinatly need glasses got a 22 Dec 02 19:28:16 *sigh* Dec 02 19:28:19 Makavel: I don't know anything about that, sorry Dec 02 19:28:43 fiferboy: Alright. Thanks a lot for your help Dec 02 19:28:45 * Stskeeps passes Myrtti a cookie Dec 02 19:28:49 Makavel: if you are using PySide on Maemo , you should use the new packages in the extras-devel repository Dec 02 19:28:56 did I need to do something when flashing the OS to get the full list of apps? Dec 02 19:29:08 or am I just missing a repository? Dec 02 19:29:12 red pill mode again? Dec 02 19:29:13 Makavel: the ones in that www.pyside.org repository are outdated Dec 02 19:29:14 lizardo: that was the one i used Dec 02 19:29:14 ... Dec 02 19:29:20 javispedro: already tried thrice Dec 02 19:29:28 copumpkin: no, just disable it. Dec 02 19:29:32 * Myrtti wipes her tears and munches the cookie in the corner Dec 02 19:29:36 lizardo: oh... i got this one from www.pyside.org Dec 02 19:29:41 I wanna cookie! Dec 02 19:29:50 javispedro: as in, do blue pill? Dec 02 19:29:54 lizardo: where can i get the latest one? Dec 02 19:29:56 * Stskeeps passes jeremiah a cookie too Dec 02 19:30:09 copumpkin: N900 applications are here for you http://maemo.org/downloads/Maemo5/ Dec 02 19:30:18 javispedro: I'm on the n800 though Dec 02 19:30:21 Makavel: yes, check the http://www.pyside.org/downloads/ now, it has new instructions for installation on Maemo/N900 :) Dec 02 19:30:22 all I need is an ssh daemon Dec 02 19:30:35 copumpkin: diablo? Dec 02 19:30:38 yep Dec 02 19:30:59 RX-34_DIABLO_5.2008.43-7_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin is the firmware I just flashed Dec 02 19:31:19 copumpkin: http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/openssh/ Dec 02 19:31:27 click on the install install link from your device. Dec 02 19:31:57 thanks :) weird that red pill didn't do anything for me. Back with the really old OS a couple of years ago that's how I did this Dec 02 19:32:00 but maybe I forgot some steps Dec 02 19:32:15 red pill is no longer needed for anything Dec 02 19:32:26 oh :) Dec 02 19:32:29 mostly, of course. Dec 02 19:33:29 so Dec 02 19:33:36 for people curious about the status of the clock Dec 02 19:33:40 drift calculation: http://www.webwizardry.net/~timeless/n900/clock/drift.html Dec 02 19:33:51 http://www.webwizardry.net/~timeless/n900/clock/analysis.txt Dec 02 19:34:08 officially management wants to fix "something" by "tomorrow" Dec 02 19:34:57 timeless_mbp_ fix something really easy Dec 02 19:35:06 how can someone make so many misses on such a map? Dec 02 19:35:18 someone was pissed they got dragged in travel pay when going to france and it claiming it was tahiti? Dec 02 19:36:10 timeless, so the earth moved Dec 02 19:36:22 just grab whatever map is readily available, like the A-GPS guys did Dec 02 19:36:27 byu the sounds of it some of us were caught in a temporal vertex Dec 02 19:36:52 timeless_mbp_: that analysis.txt is hilarious Dec 02 19:36:58 epic fail Dec 02 19:37:00 a vertex heheh Dec 02 19:37:01 fnordianslip: it isn't complete Dec 02 19:37:03 and japan is now a peninsula Dec 02 19:37:06 that's just my current summary Dec 02 19:37:12 lols Dec 02 19:38:32 and issues like those is basically an international accident waiting to happen Dec 02 19:40:31 apparently lex luthor's plot already succeeded and san francisco is now in eastern CA Dec 02 19:40:31 is there any easy way to determine my ip address other than firing up xterm and typing in ifconfig? Dec 02 19:40:49 (on the device, that is) Dec 02 19:41:02 yeah, the Connection Manager app has a menu Dec 02 19:41:05 solid stuff there with the map lol Dec 02 19:41:23 copumpkin: Install "Personal IP Address" Dec 02 19:41:32 and detroit gangs took over DC and renamed it Dec 02 19:41:54 er manhattan Dec 02 19:42:42 fiferboy: only seems to be available on maemo 5 Dec 02 19:42:51 copumpkin: Try homeip Dec 02 19:43:11 thanks :) Dec 02 19:43:14 and there's a "IP Address" option in the connection manager's app menu Dec 02 19:44:12 * el_zilcho is stilll waiting for his amazon response for his RMA Dec 02 19:44:16 i'm kinda worried Dec 02 19:44:42 they're still showing the item as pre-order state, so i hope they don't put me in a queue again Dec 02 19:45:12 thanks! Dec 02 19:45:15 got in :) Dec 02 19:47:28 Hi Dec 02 19:50:46 whoever was working on that clock app may want to note the time is wrong for Buenos Aires, Argentina as well. https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6481 Dec 02 19:50:49 Bug 6481: Buenos Aires, Argentina time off by 1 hour Dec 02 19:52:31 * Flandry wonders about the purpose of http://maemo.org/downloads/product/create/99/application/ Dec 02 19:53:42 I assume that's for adding apps not found in extras, but i wasn't aware that was encouraged by maemo Dec 02 19:53:58 hi Dec 02 19:54:02 javispedro: did you get to the punch line? Dec 02 19:54:11 where i mention not wanting to talk about city/country names? Dec 02 19:54:23 there's an independent long list for that :) Dec 02 19:55:27 starting with "cuidad de méxico", poor mexico! ;) Dec 02 19:56:22 Flandry, that's meant only for maemo4 Dec 02 19:56:34 the page will be disabled for maemo5 when the responsible gets back from vacations Dec 02 19:56:54 Flandry, it's legacy more than anything. Dec 02 19:57:21 ... anyone has nokia n810 :? how long does it stand on battery (with normal use)? Dec 02 19:57:41 javispedro: different team Dec 02 19:57:46 which reminds me, i need to call a guy about that Dec 02 19:58:02 szymom_g, define normal. Dec 02 19:58:29 hello Dec 02 19:59:01 GAN900: reading e-books, listening to music- wifi etc turned off Dec 02 19:59:45 szymon_g, depending on the music format and backlight level probably about 6-10 Dec 02 19:59:57 szymon_g, ages and ages and ages Dec 02 20:00:02 I assume by reading ebooks you mean "screen never off" Dec 02 20:00:10 and on low brightness fbreader lasts a while too Dec 02 20:00:12 It seems to me that applications for mobile phones that are able to read barcodes are demanded by smartphone users. Now I'm wondering whether such a thing exists for maemo and what such applications are used for in practice Dec 02 20:00:25 completely asleep its uptime is measured in weeks Dec 02 20:00:30 hey GAN900 Dec 02 20:00:33 papo, it's being developed. Dec 02 20:00:38 when are you setting off Dec 02 20:00:45 papo, demand is a bit strong, methinks. Dec 02 20:00:54 we demand them Dec 02 20:00:57 lcuk, tomorrow afternoon EST Dec 02 20:01:07 to maebar? Dec 02 20:01:08 cool Dec 02 20:01:13 yeah t Dec 02 20:01:15 thanx GAN900 and lcuk Dec 02 20:01:19 lcuk, should be in Friday around 8 AM Dec 02 20:01:26 sweet :) Dec 02 20:01:29 just in time for registration :) Dec 02 20:01:32 you coming as well Dec 02 20:01:38 * tigert will be there too Dec 02 20:01:44 GAN900, you will have a lonnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnng day Dec 02 20:01:50 top banana Dec 02 20:01:50 packing my inkscape and postit notes :) Dec 02 20:02:01 thumbnailer is killing my batterty. :( Dec 02 20:02:11 Funny because the only option one can select for OS is Maemo 5 :D Dec 02 20:02:11 tigert: we should have gotten you to help w/ the map :) Dec 02 20:02:18 GAN900: hum ok, interesting. But what kind of applications would such a program have? Scanning books in the bookstore and stuff like that? Dec 02 20:02:21 heh Dec 02 20:02:35 tigert, ive only seen your photography, what other stuff do you get involved in then Dec 02 20:02:41 lcuk, I really hope I manage to sleep on the plane. Dec 02 20:02:47 Else I'm going to die. Dec 02 20:02:48 lcuk: ui, themes Dec 02 20:02:58 lcuk: i did Plankton Dec 02 20:03:10 and N810 default theme Dec 02 20:03:10 * GAN900 demands Bora Plankton for Fremantle. Dec 02 20:03:21 :D wicked Dec 02 20:03:27 Far and away the best Maemo theme ever released. Dec 02 20:03:28 and i agree with gans demands Dec 02 20:03:29 we need to get the fremantle theme toools out Dec 02 20:03:34 * javispedro demands Diablo for N900! :) Dec 02 20:03:50 now, House MD time, cya Dec 02 20:04:01 cya \o Dec 02 20:04:07 House MD now? Dec 02 20:04:13 javispedro, theres a few suggested the same Dec 02 20:04:24 dvd Dec 02 20:04:24 crashanddie, nowadays tv time is anytime Dec 02 20:04:26 :) Dec 02 20:04:33 lcuk: true Dec 02 20:04:33 lol Dec 02 20:04:37 lcuk: with dave and all :P Dec 02 20:04:43 javispedro: if you upgrade dsme, it might not be entirely impossible.. Dec 02 20:04:55 see Dec 02 20:05:02 Stskeeps: it's one of those things I plan to try when I find the time and the hw ;) Dec 02 20:05:21 javispedro: i figured i would just get horribly bored at some point and see how far i get Dec 02 20:05:41 * timeless_mbp_ hopes the dvr @home is recording house Dec 02 20:05:58 heh, house is on polish tv too atm Dec 02 20:06:05 * javispedro sends electrical surge to timeless' home an disables dvr Dec 02 20:06:11 timeless, it is, but its using the new time applet to do it, so you might get 45 minutes of the previous show Dec 02 20:06:19 lol Dec 02 20:06:22 several seasons behind and with lektor/dubbing Dec 02 20:06:27 which gps application do you guys recommend for someone that does not need turn by turn navigation, just able to see map etc, and very preferrably download the maps for a specific region to be able to use offline? Dec 02 20:06:33 lcuk: it could be in the wrong time zone Dec 02 20:06:38 that seems to happen Dec 02 20:06:39 Maemo Mapper Dec 02 20:06:46 Stskeeps: they're dubbing it here too, but somehow they managed not to lag much... Dec 02 20:06:48 is that also available for N900? Dec 02 20:06:53 Yes Dec 02 20:07:03 Although it's currently alpha. Dec 02 20:07:03 redeeman: technically you could use the Nokia Map Downloader! :) Dec 02 20:07:08 * timeless_mbp_ wouldn't recommend it Dec 02 20:07:09 GAN900: rally? extras-deve;? Dec 02 20:07:14 really, even Dec 02 20:07:20 fnordianslip, think so. Dec 02 20:07:33 hold on, downloading the maps for a region was the most pleasurable experience Dec 02 20:07:34 hmm. checks ... Dec 02 20:07:37 A web 2.0 offline app in a mobile device, who has these ideas Dec 02 20:07:46 it worked flawlessly and quickly Dec 02 20:08:06 i was most impressed that i got maps for entire ocuntry on device :) Dec 02 20:08:21 country too Dec 02 20:08:36 GAN900: because just to clarify... a projects that deals with all that barcode parsing stuff sounds very interesting to me but I'm having trouble imaging what it could be used for in daily life Dec 02 20:08:38 * javispedro watches yet another tmo recently-registered snatch and start sending noobs asking techy questions to /dev/null Dec 02 20:09:10 javispedro: tell them its the recycle bin Dec 02 20:09:35 GAN900: where do i find it? Dec 02 20:10:46 Hildon Home has about a billion crash reports. . . . Dec 02 20:10:57 papo: indexing the books you have, checking if you already have a book in your library when you're looking at it in an airport or shop. Checking out the price of an item in a store and compare it against prices online of others stores, tells you if you're hitting a bargain or not Dec 02 20:11:10 papo, shopping is a big one. Dec 02 20:11:20 papo, looking up reviews on something in front of you. Dec 02 20:11:25 papo there are many many uses, even eyond the normal stuff Dec 02 20:11:26 papo, anything to do with inventorying. Dec 02 20:11:30 who shops in a store these days anyway Dec 02 20:11:33 huh the storage partition is fat? lol. Dec 02 20:11:36 as gen says Dec 02 20:11:42 I can repartition it, right? Dec 02 20:11:46 Flandry, groceries. Dec 02 20:11:51 reformat rather Dec 02 20:11:53 Shapeshifter, Windows users. Dec 02 20:11:57 it's FAT so it can be mounted to windows Dec 02 20:12:05 uh cool, now if this is coupled with some kind of lookup tool then that would indeed have many interesting applications Dec 02 20:12:07 Flandry, or for things which never have appreciably cheaper prices online. Dec 02 20:12:07 thank you guys Dec 02 20:12:11 Flandry, just being able to rescan the 12pack of beer for your online order saves you searching Dec 02 20:12:32 with a satisfying BEEP you know you just gave away $10 for more beer Dec 02 20:12:33 lcuk: lmao Dec 02 20:12:37 GeneralAntilles: yeah, I understand that, but I can reformat to use ext3, right? Dec 02 20:12:40 that's a real killer app lol Dec 02 20:13:17 Shapeshifter, believe so, not sure what the status is on breakage, currently, though. Dec 02 20:13:19 Some stuff may expect a certain arrangement. Dec 02 20:13:23 papo: talk to me about mbarcode Dec 02 20:13:40 or not, as I'm about to fall asleep Dec 02 20:13:57 papo, you are lucky, lardman is here, and hes been devleoping and testing mbarcode for a while now, he has to date scanned 17243 bottles of wine Dec 02 20:13:57 hi all Dec 02 20:14:07 lardman|home, early night. Dec 02 20:14:14 mh Dec 02 20:14:30 * Firebird wonders why there is an "Extra character election" Dec 02 20:14:33 GeneralAntilles: I feel rough, sore throat, cough, etc., etc Dec 02 20:14:35 lcuk: uh well I work at a fairly large library... we have barcodes, too :) Dec 02 20:14:46 papo: what type? Dec 02 20:14:49 :D GeneralAntilles works in a bookshop Dec 02 20:14:53 sometimes Dec 02 20:14:57 when hes not being a slob Dec 02 20:14:58 someone known why the mediaplayer in N900 doesn't refresh filenames I have renamed in the filemanager ? Dec 02 20:15:10 http://www.irintech.com/x1/images/jean/pizza_isosceles_triangles.jpg Dec 02 20:15:10 lcuk: burnn :P Dec 02 20:15:11 Creteil, file a bug Dec 02 20:15:20 lcuk, I'm a slob at the moment. Dec 02 20:15:22 I hear it's very useful for qwerty12_N900 with his pimping business Dec 02 20:15:24 lcuk, why's that relevant, though? Dec 02 20:15:35 he's actually had all the employees get tattoo bar codes... Dec 02 20:15:35 Oh Dec 02 20:15:37 Right Dec 02 20:15:38 cos someone was talking about books Dec 02 20:15:44 * GeneralAntilles is also blind right now. Dec 02 20:15:49 Flandry: I don't want to hear where he's scanning barcodes on his hoes. Dec 02 20:15:51 * lcuk nods Dec 02 20:15:52 lcuk, ok, where I can file a bug ? Dec 02 20:15:52 lardman: Code 39 IIRC Dec 02 20:15:53 we all know what causes that Dec 02 20:15:57 Creteil: bmo Dec 02 20:16:06 lcuk: is he like Bill Bailey's character in Black Books Dec 02 20:16:10 papo: just wondering if zbar decodes that, and I think it does Dec 02 20:16:13 crashanddie, bmo ??? Dec 02 20:16:18 Creteil: bugs.maemo.org Dec 02 20:16:26 ok, going out for lunch, later all Dec 02 20:16:27 crashanddie, ok Dec 02 20:17:00 lardman|home: According to the project website, it does Dec 02 20:17:05 lardman|home: I could give it a try tomorrow Dec 02 20:17:34 still no appearance of uqm on downloads. How long is it supposed to take? Dec 02 20:17:53 hmm. well I'd find out if maemo-mapper was in extras-devel, if it WORKED :x Dec 02 20:18:10 papo: please do, and what would you like to happen when you scan one? Dec 02 20:18:51 lardman|home: Well this is really related to our library but something like displaying the due date would be quite funny :) Dec 02 20:19:22 lardman|home: so your barcode-app is based on zbar then? Dec 02 20:19:24 well that would be easy enough to write a plugin for Dec 02 20:19:31 hence my desire to get plugins working Dec 02 20:19:50 yes, zbar for 1D + QR and libdmtx for datamatrix Dec 02 20:20:11 lardman|home: powerful parsing library plus plugin API would be interesting IMO Dec 02 20:21:32 what is the "best" mapping program at the moment? I can't really get maemo-mapper to "go". The GPXviewer program is quite good, but seems to be for a treasure hunt game or something I don't quite grok. Dec 02 20:21:56 jebbajeb: MM works for me on N900 Dec 02 20:22:04 lardman|home: ah mbarcode is maemo-barcode? Dec 02 20:22:11 no Dec 02 20:22:14 ah yes Dec 02 20:22:19 sorry, half asleep Dec 02 20:22:34 ok Dec 02 20:23:24 is /var/tmp really on rootfs? Dec 02 20:23:40 mikkov yes Dec 02 20:24:11 no Dec 02 20:24:14 sure it's not a tmpfs? Dec 02 20:24:22 it's symlink Dec 02 20:24:28 is it? Dec 02 20:24:41 * mashiara checks Dec 02 20:24:49 mashiara: do you have retail N900? Dec 02 20:24:57 lardman|home: Hm I'm interested in this, I'll have a look at the code tonight Dec 02 20:25:22 browser download all files to /var/tmp first Dec 02 20:25:24 mikkov flashed with retail image, and yes it's no longer symlink... sorry Dec 02 20:25:36 papo: currently I don;t have a check for code 39 barcodes, but could presumably add something in (or see if zbar can tell me), then pass those onto you r plugin, etc Dec 02 20:25:48 mashiara: /var/tmp isn't a symlink Dec 02 20:25:58 it used to be... Dec 02 20:26:41 lardman|home: ok. I first have to get into the maemo specific things... I don't even have a device yet so no hurry there Dec 02 20:26:43 /var/tmp being on rootfs is major fail for downloading files with browser Dec 02 20:27:17 lardman|home: But I'm wondering if I can run this in the SDK? I guess so, but I have to admit that I didn't have time to look into the devel-related stuff of maemo yet Dec 02 20:27:24 papo: no need for maemo-specific, write some code and I'll see if I can add it into mbarcode to do your lib book lookups :) Dec 02 20:27:37 no, doesn't seem to react well to the SDK so I hear Dec 02 20:27:41 :/var/tmp# cd /var/tmp Dec 02 20:27:42 :/var/tmp# df . Dec 02 20:27:43 but do try Dec 02 20:27:44 Filesystem 1k-blocks Used Available Use% Mounted on Dec 02 20:27:45 rootfs 233104 197532 31288 86% / Dec 02 20:27:49 lardman|home: Ok, I'll try Dec 02 20:28:32 lardman maemo-maps just seems excessively slow to use Dec 02 20:29:34 I dont even see how to really zoom (?) Dec 02 20:29:43 except thru menu, which is cumbersome to say the least Dec 02 20:29:51 papo: ok, I can determine the type of the barcode from zbar using zbar_symbol_get_type() so no problem there Dec 02 20:30:15 and I just got a "maemo-mapper is not responding. Close application?" Dec 02 20:31:21 jebbajeb: use the +/- keys? Dec 02 20:31:25 lardman|home: Hm ok. I'm wondering how the application is going to know that this is a book and not something else... is there some kind of menu where you choose what plugin is going to be used? Dec 02 20:31:41 papo: not yet, but that is my aim Dec 02 20:31:47 allow user to enable certain plugins Dec 02 20:31:51 lardman|home: like even tapping at the top to bring up a menu, then View, takes like 30+ seconds just to bring up menus.... Dec 02 20:32:04 jebbajeb: hmm, that is slow Dec 02 20:32:11 lardman|home: very interesting, thank you Dec 02 20:32:19 papo: np :) Dec 02 20:34:34 hmm, when downloading again browser doesn't use /var/tmp anymore Dec 02 20:42:47 crashanddie: is there a kind of wiki with "getting started with your n900" stuff? Dec 02 20:42:58 eh? Dec 02 20:43:38 crashanddie: a collection of instructions, tipps and tricks or whatever Dec 02 20:43:58 not aware of that Dec 02 20:44:28 i guess they will appear on some blogs soon Dec 02 20:44:48 hum scratchbox.org isn't exactly fast somehow :( Dec 02 20:46:02 BluesLee: I guess the initial steps would be: load music, browse through applications, install maemo extras, find even more applications, integrate with online services, sync contacts and email accounts, etc Dec 02 20:46:11 not necessarily in that order Dec 02 20:46:21 or as someone in the forums said: Dec 02 20:46:24 fap fap fap fap fap Dec 02 20:46:32 lcuk: meaning? Dec 02 20:46:42 lardman|home: what is zbar? Dec 02 20:47:01 lardman|home: and why does mbarcode conflict with it? Dec 02 20:47:22 crashanddie: ssh to n900 would be on top of that for me Dec 02 20:47:26 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=35130 Dec 02 20:48:21 lcuk: oh, that fap fap fap Dec 02 20:48:44 crashanddie: libzbar conflicts with it Dec 02 20:48:53 zbar is the backend decoder Dec 02 20:49:06 libzbar/zbar that is Dec 02 20:49:19 solution? Dec 02 20:51:07 I'm so tired about all the stupid business acronyms we use Dec 02 20:51:12 (in my company) Dec 02 20:51:43 but on this new project, they made me laugh... The customer keeps reporting "TFR"'s, which was a term coined by one of our engineers, though nobody knew what it meant Dec 02 20:51:46 crashanddie, you see bullshit bingo? Dec 02 20:51:47 crashanddie: upgrade mbarcode and it should install libzbar and that should remove zbar Dec 02 20:51:58 lardman|home: I get a conflict Dec 02 20:51:59 at least that was my understanding Dec 02 20:52:16 hmm, it has conflicts and replaces, perhaps I only want one? Dec 02 20:53:18 we managed to get him drunk enough last night so he would disclose why he told the customer to use TFR when reporting issues Dec 02 20:53:27 it means "Technically fucked, really" Dec 02 20:53:45 (or totally, depending on interpretation) Dec 02 20:54:44 lol Dec 02 20:55:16 lardman: any way to - in the absence of a dbus notification thingy which would be actual work - simply dump the current barcode to /tmp/barcode-pipe ? Dec 02 20:55:56 sure, can't see why not Dec 02 20:56:07 does the DBus not work? I've not tried it yet Dec 02 20:56:14 oh - I've not tried it Dec 02 20:56:27 I diddn't realise it was an option - and I don't grok dbus yet. Dec 02 20:56:35 someone said it crashes, but seems to work for me (at least not crashing mbarcode) Dec 02 20:57:19 barcode as input method would be fun Dec 02 20:57:33 but challenging since you need to see to aim Dec 02 20:57:46 woo, departure scan in rotterdam Dec 02 20:57:47 * w00t cheers Dec 02 20:57:51 online banking for example Dec 02 20:58:00 can do copy & paste though Dec 02 20:58:23 Amazon has started shipping early/mid-October pre-orders it looks like Dec 02 20:58:23 would be easy enough to automatically copy the barcode, and then let the user paste it Dec 02 20:58:23 our invoices have barcodes Dec 02 20:58:34 yeah, someone was talking about bank statements too Dec 02 20:58:35 On scrolling (generally) you're not supposed to be able to drag the scroll indicator when it appears? Dec 02 20:58:41 bank payment slips even Dec 02 20:58:42 and my bank site can prefill invoice forms from them Dec 02 20:58:52 SpeedEvil, it's just an indicator. Dec 02 20:59:01 GeneralAntilles: Thanks. Meh. Dec 02 20:59:02 works great with a usb barcode reader Dec 02 20:59:11 that works as a keyboard Dec 02 20:59:12 * GeneralAntilles whines about 60s electrical arrangements. Dec 02 20:59:34 All the lights in the apartment are out 'cause otherwise the fans from the carpet guy will blow the breaker. :( Dec 02 20:59:50 so my usecase would be to fire up the barcode tool with focus in an input field Dec 02 20:59:50 GeneralAntilles: Clearly, that's a dealbreaker. Dec 02 20:59:57 and paste the code in Dec 02 20:59:58 Dealbreaker! Dec 02 21:00:44 "No has entry" in release file for -devel repo. Hmm. That the common problem people see with -devel or is something else up? Dec 02 21:01:00 ev'nin, all Dec 02 21:01:05 hey jaffa Dec 02 21:01:12 mmm jaffa Dec 02 21:01:18 i knew i had something Dec 02 21:01:27 hi Jaffa Dec 02 21:01:39 how would you make hermes pickup maemo.org contact details Dec 02 21:02:05 im using it to pickup headshots from irc without config based on user names, but realised it would also be good to do for maemo Dec 02 21:02:08 which IRC client do you people recommend for N900? Dec 02 21:02:10 with regular contacts Dec 02 21:02:15 XChat Dec 02 21:02:17 hi, can someone give me an hint? I'm looking for the directory where maemo stores the bookmarks you put on the desktops Dec 02 21:02:36 just don't try and change the prefs, as it always crashes for me then Dec 02 21:03:13 redeeman: ssh to irchost, screen irssi Dec 02 21:03:14 jebbajebs problem is what i see often too Dec 02 21:03:20 yeah, it's better to manually edit the .xchat2/xchat.conf to avoid crashes Dec 02 21:03:27 lcuk: go off the nickname field in Contacts Dec 02 21:03:32 evo: thanks Dec 02 21:03:36 could it be that thwe Release file is not created atomically? Dec 02 21:03:42 yeah jaffa, is it doable with hermes tho? Dec 02 21:03:48 to let us use community details Dec 02 21:04:00 im just about to go meet a load of folks Dec 02 21:04:05 and i dont have them on facebook or twitter Dec 02 21:04:07 lcuk: or iterate over all maemo.org accounts with photos matching on name (probab.y set up an index to speed it up) Dec 02 21:04:08 hermes plugins! :) Dec 02 21:04:09 and most have maemo.org profiles Dec 02 21:04:40 brr its freezing here Dec 02 21:04:54 lcuk; certainly doable, I believe it's already on the roadmap at http://hermes.garage.maemo.org/#development Dec 02 21:05:09 tigert: freezing? Dec 02 21:05:14 nice :) just thought about it for a specific use case Dec 02 21:05:44 tigert: I'm going to avoid the Mauku 2 problem as long as possible: design a system so powerful and generic it does nothing well (for a long time). See also Spring Dec 02 21:06:29 python is not installing for me seemingly Dec 02 21:06:34 amazon germany has the n900 available! Dec 02 21:06:36 Anyone else had this problem? Dec 02 21:06:41 £ and ¤ are important Dec 02 21:06:54 considering 1/3 of devices are sold in EU alone Dec 02 21:06:57 METAR: EFHK 022050Z 36004KT 340V050 CAVOK M03/M04 Q1014 0419//95 5419//95 1519//95 NOSIG Dec 02 21:06:57 fnmatch seems to be the first thing mentioned as an error Dec 02 21:06:59 hello guys, I got a strange behaviour when opening a rtsp:// (video) , the flow is first opened as a video (see about 2 secondes of video) and then it switch on audio (as a flow)... my question : is there a way to open mediaplayer in command line giving the uri, and to force it to read the uri as a video Dec 02 21:07:03 ;) Dec 02 21:07:08 currency symbols are useless, other than $ because its used in programming etc :) Dec 02 21:07:28 Jaffa: yeah, was joking. you got la point Dec 02 21:07:29 jaska: and p Dec 02 21:07:54 tigert: brrr. cold :P Dec 02 21:07:59 yea Dec 02 21:08:06 xorAxAx: omg "on stock" Dec 02 21:08:28 yannj: I'd try with mplayer, it works fine for me Dec 02 21:08:48 papo: yep Dec 02 21:08:51 xorAxAx: it's quite expensive, though Dec 02 21:08:55 papo: yep Dec 02 21:08:59 Hi. Does MicroB support java? Dec 02 21:09:07 evo : how looks the command line? Dec 02 21:09:07 mario-goulart: no Dec 02 21:09:35 no java on N900 Dec 02 21:09:36 there is no java env in N900 Dec 02 21:09:49 javascript yes Dec 02 21:09:51 not a limit of microb i guess Dec 02 21:10:14 tigert: ah, ok. Thanks. Dec 02 21:10:16 MicroB supports javascript which is what most people are thinking of when they ask :) Dec 02 21:10:21 xorAxAx: I ordered mine from expansys. I'm wondering whether it's really going to ship on 12th Dec 02 21:10:40 papo: URL? Dec 02 21:10:59 xorAxAx: http://www.expansys.ch/d.aspx?i=188856 Dec 02 21:11:04 yannj: something like mplayer -playlist URL Dec 02 21:11:08 xorAxAx: there is a german expansys store, too Dec 02 21:11:26 Flandry: I mean Java, really. Dec 02 21:11:29 xorAxAx: ^.ch^.de^ Dec 02 21:11:43 alright, just making ure Dec 02 21:11:44 sure Dec 02 21:11:45 papo: hmm, but 550 EUR is still quite expensive, other shops offer it at 500 EUR Dec 02 21:12:10 yep, editing ~/.xchat2/xchat.conf works, but changing xchat preferences via the program crashes xchat... Dec 02 21:12:16 http://geizhals.at/deutschland/a457621.html Dec 02 21:12:16 xorAxAx: yes, however, this is the QWERTY layout. Was not able to find another store which provides that layout for a lower price Dec 02 21:13:10 i paid 450EUR in .dk Dec 02 21:13:18 redeeman: wow, URL? Dec 02 21:13:33 mario-goulart: Google Jalimo, although I believe you can only get it working in-browser with effort Dec 02 21:13:37 its sold out, it was via my mobile operator, telmore.dk Dec 02 21:13:49 I try to ask again, hope to be not annoying: I'd like to edit some bookmarks I put on the desktops, where are they saved? I tried with $HOME/.bookmarks but it stores the browser bookmarks Dec 02 21:14:14 redeeman: ah :-( Dec 02 21:14:41 evo: web ones? Dec 02 21:14:57 hmm.... jalimo you say... i'll check that out.... i've got some standalone jars i use for pbx configuration Dec 02 21:14:58 what's the best `mplayer -vo` option? -vo xv seems to drop quite a bit... Dec 02 21:15:10 tigert: exactly, they're saved using the tag of the webpage, but sometimes I'd prefer to change it Dec 02 21:15:37 <mario-goulart> Jaffa: Thank you. Actually I was thinking about running MicroB on a regular linux system, just to know it. Don't even know if it is possible or easy, in fact. Dec 02 21:16:22 <evo> jebbajeb: I had the same question for -ao .. the default alsa one was not working fine with a web stream, I used -ao pulse Dec 02 21:16:42 <Shapeshifter> huh, this is very odd. I just tried using a coupon code at expansys.ch and all of a sudden it gives me an order receipt, and now I'm on a page where I can track the order. I didn't even enter my data or had the intention to actually buy. Seems like this is someone elses order. Dec 02 21:16:57 <Shapeshifter> who ordered 02.12.2009 21:13 London UK Zeit xD Dec 02 21:16:58 <jebbajeb> evo: ya -ao pulse for sure (should be default) Dec 02 21:17:05 <tigert> evo: i guess edit the web bookmark and add it again :( Dec 02 21:17:19 <tigert> looks like it makes a copy to desktop Dec 02 21:17:36 <tigert> and doesnt pick up changes from browser bookmarks Dec 02 21:17:44 <SpeedEvil> Shapeshifter: can you alter the delivery address? :) Dec 02 21:17:50 <Stskeeps> SpeedEvil: my thought exactly Dec 02 21:17:50 <Stskeeps> :P Dec 02 21:18:00 <jebbajeb> evo: echo "ao = pulse" > ~/.mplayer/config Dec 02 21:18:26 <Shapeshifter> nah ;) Dec 02 21:18:28 <evo> tigert: umm, no, they're not in the browser bookmarks, they're stored in different places I guess Dec 02 21:18:53 <Jaffa> mario-goulart: I wouldn't bother TBH. Best bet would be within Maemo SDK. timeless might be able to help you run microb outside Maemo, tho.