**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Dec 09 02:59:57 2009 Dec 09 03:00:06 Well, what would you like to do with the device? That is a good place to start Dec 09 03:00:29 I like N900 Dec 09 03:03:35 Sir_Lancelot: you've read the user manual that's in MyDocs on N900 somewhere? Dec 09 03:03:36 i like turtles Dec 09 03:03:36 Foxx: have you actually tried some usb bluetooth? Dec 09 03:03:36 yes I did Dec 09 03:03:36 :D Dec 09 03:03:36 I'm not thaaaaaaaaat noob :D Dec 09 03:03:37 so seems you should learn about Linux in general then, to start with Dec 09 03:03:37 but aren't there already developed apps for the phone? Dec 09 03:03:37 somewhere Dec 09 03:03:38 and then Foxx had the right question for you Dec 09 03:03:38 yes, a lot Dec 09 03:03:38 where can I get them from? Dec 09 03:03:38 and how does this work? Dec 09 03:03:38 go to app manager, check extras catalog Dec 09 03:03:38 I've been there Dec 09 03:03:39 csr doesn't always help, if the phone/device you're connecting to isn't csr too Dec 09 03:04:06 Sir_Lancelot: you enabled the preconfigured extras catalog? Dec 09 03:04:13 yes Dec 09 03:04:32 and also added the catalog for the beta apps from meamo.org Dec 09 03:04:34 so you should see quite a number of apps Dec 09 03:04:44 yes I did Dec 09 03:04:52 Foxx: what's the problem with bluetooth usb? Dec 09 03:05:05 but is that catalog the only source of apps? or are there other catalogs? Dec 09 03:05:07 I cant bring the adapter up Dec 09 03:05:16 well, mind you this is an external USB stick Dec 09 03:05:32 Foxx: what does dmesg say? Dec 09 03:05:33 i assume it uses the standard hci_usb interface? Dec 09 03:05:41 yup Dec 09 03:05:48 what does hciconfig say? Dec 09 03:05:50 normally I would issue an hciconfig set up command in shell, but there is no hciconfig Dec 09 03:06:01 well theres your problem Dec 09 03:06:02 Sir_Lancelot: there are mainly three catalogs at the moment afaik, one of which is testing extras that you can basicly screw your device over if you dont understand linux and fiddle around Dec 09 03:06:03 you need bluez Dec 09 03:06:06 Sir_Lancelot: http://wiki.maemo.org/Downloading_apps Dec 09 03:06:10 ah i see - then just compile bluez-utils Dec 09 03:06:26 good place to browse for software rathern than app packages is from ur web bookmarks the maemo select Dec 09 03:06:34 or snatch the debian armel bins if you're feeling lazy Dec 09 03:06:35 do you have a hci_usb kernel module loaded? Dec 09 03:06:39 some must have apps listed there better explained Dec 09 03:06:40 apt is telling me its installed Dec 09 03:06:58 last I can recall, all CSR radios are supported under blue-z, which is why I try to stick with them Dec 09 03:07:04 plus I like the hardware Dec 09 03:07:19 Foxx: i don't know anything about maemo 4, but bluez-utils provides hciconfig and hcitool and such Dec 09 03:07:34 and afaik, hci_usb should support ALL bluetooth usb standard compliant devices Dec 09 03:07:44 (which is required to get approval from the bluetooth people) Dec 09 03:07:53 ok, so this means that in what concerns apps, I'm not as far behind as I thought Dec 09 03:08:04 is the hci_usb module loaded though? Dec 09 03:08:15 is tethering ubuntu + n900 hard btw? i found that the usb itself finds the device perfectly and i can browse files on the phone np Dec 09 03:08:18 which leaves me in the right position so start learning Linux basics then ;) Dec 09 03:08:26 but im wondering about using the phone as a modem for my netbook Dec 09 03:08:27 red: works ootb for me Dec 09 03:08:28 it wouldn't be normally, because the device's own bluetooth isn't on uab Dec 09 03:08:51 thats where I have been cought up on Dec 09 03:08:53 ali1234: where should i go for some tutorial about adding the phone as modem? Dec 09 03:08:55 red: select pc suite mode, nm will see a standard mobile broadband device Dec 09 03:08:56 Foxx: lsmod | grep hci_usb Dec 09 03:09:11 mmh, pc suite for linux? what Dec 09 03:09:15 redeeman, working on it, booting the n800 now Dec 09 03:09:18 pc suide for linux? Dec 09 03:09:25 red: no select it on n900 when you plug it in Dec 09 03:09:25 or if you have a very new kernel, its called btusb instead of hci_usb Dec 09 03:09:40 ahh, select pc suite state and it recognizes it as a modem? Dec 09 03:09:56 red: yes, and then use the mobile broadband wizard in n-m Dec 09 03:10:01 didnt think of that as i was plugging it in to a linux and crossed out the possibility alltogether Dec 09 03:10:07 alright, ill give it a go, brb Dec 09 03:10:13 btw: my n900 didn't bring a CD with Pc Suite Dec 09 03:10:18 ^ same Dec 09 03:10:22 afaik it won't expose it as a modem, but rather usb cdc ethernet device Dec 09 03:10:37 where can I get Pc Suite for N900....and from the Pc side, it's a regular XP SP3 Dec 09 03:10:51 ali1234: so u are using the cord for that btw Dec 09 03:11:00 id prefer bluetooth, but can live without Dec 09 03:11:00 redeeman: it has both Dec 09 03:11:07 red: yes usb cable Dec 09 03:11:16 ali1234: ah i see Dec 09 03:11:18 do you know if its possible over bt? Dec 09 03:11:27 red: it is, but not with default configuration Dec 09 03:11:58 alright, where should i go look for the documentation on that (if there is any done) Dec 09 03:12:12 there is on the maemo.org wiki, but i don't know if that's online now Dec 09 03:12:21 googling for it was a waste of time, didnt find anything relevant Dec 09 03:12:27 might be that im using wrong keywords Dec 09 03:12:35 google for bluetooth dun n900 Dec 09 03:12:43 nah don't use DUN it sucks Dec 09 03:12:50 you want to set up a PAN if possible Dec 09 03:13:06 dun has worked fine for me on lots of devices Dec 09 03:13:27 with dun you have to keep redialing if the connection drops Dec 09 03:13:37 is there a speed limit you can do over DUN? I have never really used it Dec 09 03:13:42 true, pan is nicer, but more elaborate to setup Dec 09 03:13:53 i dont regard reconnecting as issue Dec 09 03:14:01 as it is that way via default pc suite windows + usb tethering Dec 09 03:14:20 and generally i dont experience disconnects unless i am on the move, and if i am - laptop will be closed Dec 09 03:14:46 no hci__usb module loaded Dec 09 03:15:14 hang on, doesn't the n800 have bluetooth built in?? Dec 09 03:15:36 yes, I want to use a more powerful adapter with high gain antenna Dec 09 03:16:13 or at least with a standard 2dB gain rubber duck Dec 09 03:17:12 im not going to stress too hard over this, its not important Dec 09 03:17:38 its more like... I have the adapters, antennas, and the n800, just seeing if it can do it Dec 09 03:18:02 BTScanner on the n800 is a major eye strain either way Dec 09 03:20:05 how does one toggle SSH on/off on the N900? Dec 09 03:21:40 nez800: "toggle" ? Dec 09 03:21:45 turn on/off Dec 09 03:21:53 maybe the dropbear or ssh in /etc/rc2.d/* Dec 09 03:22:13 /etc/init.d/sshd stop? Dec 09 03:22:19 oh, I was hoping there was a graphical applet for it. I know there is a Services applet for N800 Dec 09 03:22:43 I think there is no. Dec 09 03:22:57 jesus christ its a buttload of work for bluetooth tethering Dec 09 03:23:10 hah Dec 09 03:23:17 yeah, thats how it usually is Dec 09 03:23:28 wonder why such functionality isn't completed out of the box.. as BT draws less power than usb/wif tether Dec 09 03:23:30 I have this book "Bluetooth Demystified" Dec 09 03:23:31 red: yeah, and cursing on IRC will definitely ease the process :) Dec 09 03:23:48 its about 300 pages, and "bluetooth made simple and easy to understand" Dec 09 03:23:49 hey its 5am and im tired, little venting out isn't forbidden I hope =) Dec 09 03:24:01 Foxx: hah Dec 09 03:24:11 oh well, it was simple and easy for my nokia 9300 which is years and years old Dec 09 03:24:19 red: not at all, just don't take the lord's name in vain Dec 09 03:24:21 odd that some features go backwards in time Dec 09 03:24:41 <|R> I'm about to replace my old nokia phone which doesn't even have BT with the n900 :P Dec 09 03:24:50 plug in my bt dongle, open pc suite, connect device and dial gprs Dec 09 03:25:05 red: just kidding, slam the bastard :P Dec 09 03:25:07 this phone is in every way better than my old devices.. except tethering :) Dec 09 03:25:31 red: n900? Dec 09 03:25:34 yes Dec 09 03:25:42 red: and you're trying to tether in which direction? Dec 09 03:25:56 for my netbook to be able to bluetooth connect to internet via my n900 Dec 09 03:26:06 oh, like so Dec 09 03:26:08 via usb it shouldn't be a hazzle Dec 09 03:26:19 but that draws more power and i need to keep the cord with me which i dont like Dec 09 03:26:32 since it will recharge the phone at the same time, drawing more power Dec 09 03:26:34 actually, USB wouldn't draw more power from your N900 Dec 09 03:26:42 giving your N900 more uptime :P Dec 09 03:26:44 it would draw more power from my NETBOOK :p Dec 09 03:26:59 yeah but as long as your netbook doesn't run maemo, we couldn't care less :D Dec 09 03:27:08 7,5h uptime about using ubuntu netbook remix and making notes during schoolday, some ircing and internet browsing Dec 09 03:27:17 via bt tethering on nokia n9300 that is Dec 09 03:27:34 via cord, ~2h away from that, so it wont last the whole day :) Dec 09 03:27:37 red: 7 hours of uptime with full core 2 duo + 4 gigs of ram ;) Dec 09 03:27:50 and a real screen plus real keyboard :P Dec 09 03:27:53 i be using a cheapo asus eee pc 9xx :p Dec 09 03:28:07 just what i could afford as a student year ago Dec 09 03:28:40 guess ill keep my years and years old communicator with me at school until bt tethering is sorted Dec 09 03:28:53 not optimal, but beats having few hours less uptime on the laptop Dec 09 03:28:58 red: what issues are you getting? Dec 09 03:29:15 no idea how to tether n900 using bluetooth Dec 09 03:29:16 :p Dec 09 03:29:22 and no, "it doesn't work" isn't a valid answer Dec 09 03:29:35 read some threads at maemo.org but cannot get any viable solutions Dec 09 03:29:39 red: basically, you need to install iptables on the N900, and then get BT networking up and running Dec 09 03:29:53 n900 kernel doesn't have iptables support Dec 09 03:29:59 ah damn Dec 09 03:30:01 mostly everyone replying there that it isn't functional yet Dec 09 03:30:04 do we have some kind of proxy then? Dec 09 03:30:05 you have to use dun currently Dec 09 03:30:15 ali1234: have you tried it? Dec 09 03:30:17 which means setting up rfcomm Dec 09 03:30:38 crashanddie: no. somebody made a custom kernel with iptables support though Dec 09 03:30:53 ali1234: you wouldn't happen to have a link? Dec 09 03:30:58 ali1234: if at any point of your life you feel bored enough to paste me some tutorials or explain it to me, you'd make one happy Finn Dec 09 03:31:16 oh, you're a Finn, not talking to you anymore Dec 09 03:31:22 haha Dec 09 03:31:40 just go knock on some Nokian's (probably a neighbour) door Dec 09 03:31:49 lol Dec 09 03:31:52 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=30916 Dec 09 03:32:15 red: rfcomm is a huge pain in the ass to set up even when you've got all the kernel modules Dec 09 03:32:42 alright, lets forget it the. ty anyway :) Dec 09 03:32:43 if it was me, i'd rather try to compile iptables and use PAN, than screw around with DUN, that's how bad it is Dec 09 03:32:53 is the maemo.org main site down for other people?? Dec 09 03:32:56 yeah, I think I get the picture Dec 09 03:33:11 woot! my n900 is in the mail! Dec 09 03:33:17 w00t! Dec 09 03:33:22 gz :p Dec 09 03:33:23 I just got mine today :D Dec 09 03:33:33 maemo.org is timing out for me Dec 09 03:33:38 I can not get to it... Dec 09 03:34:19 nez800: woot in deed, just in time too! Dec 09 03:34:52 let's have a look at this kernel source then Dec 09 03:35:36 see you guys tomorrow Dec 09 03:35:43 It's 3:35 am.m here Dec 09 03:35:50 :s Dec 09 03:35:51 goodnight! Dec 09 03:35:56 [[[]]] Dec 09 03:35:56 5.30 here :p Dec 09 03:36:20 slapped the N900 into my netbook now and enabled the pc suite mode from the phone Dec 09 03:36:31 nez800: same here, timeout.. Dec 09 03:36:33 off to research about modem installation, brb Dec 09 03:37:45 How can I prevent dropbear/sshd from starting on boot? Dec 09 03:40:30 <|R> anyone wants a google wave invite? Dec 09 03:40:40 <|R> Nobody wants them anymore hehe Dec 09 03:41:27 hmm we have ip_tables as a module now Dec 09 03:41:42 i have wave invites if anyone wants lol Dec 09 03:41:55 <|R> :) Dec 09 03:42:02 <|R> 18 of them to throw away... Dec 09 03:42:19 we have usb-storage.ko too... how odd Dec 09 03:42:29 am i on the right box? Dec 09 03:42:39 lol Dec 09 03:42:55 yes, i am Dec 09 03:43:14 nez800: maemo came good mate Dec 09 03:43:48 unbeliveable how easy the tether was via usb cable =) Dec 09 03:43:59 just clicked "add a connection thru mobile gsm device" Dec 09 03:44:19 all my isp settings were hardcoded into this netbook remix of ubuntu by default and took about 15 seconds to get the connection up and running :) Dec 09 03:44:33 they're in all versions Dec 09 03:44:39 they're in n-m Dec 09 03:44:54 speedtest was 2.4mbps/0.7mbps :) Dec 09 03:48:45 I never get that much with bluetooth :) Dec 09 03:49:22 that reminds me to test that tomorrow Dec 09 03:49:26 it can be fun to toy with Dec 09 03:49:33 for the next massive network failure Dec 09 03:50:12 I modded some of my CSR Class 1 BT adapters with antenna jacks, and built beefed up antennas Dec 09 03:50:56 Foxx: interresting, how much better range do you get with that? Dec 09 03:51:25 well, out of the box my adapter couldnt go across my livingroom Dec 09 03:51:36 with my waveguide, it went across the house Dec 09 03:51:50 with the waveguide and parabolig dish, it went through the house Dec 09 03:51:54 ... across the street Dec 09 03:52:38 I have some pictures if you would like to see them, just PM me for the link Dec 09 03:58:26 any way to identify the imei without taking the back cover off? Dec 09 03:58:33 yes Dec 09 03:58:35 in settings Dec 09 03:58:41 about device has the imei information Dec 09 03:59:06 so it does Dec 09 04:22:38 usually *#06# should display IMEI, but hmmm... Dec 09 04:23:18 the mail in rebate suggested opening the device Dec 09 04:23:52 settings -> about device Dec 09 04:23:56 yes Dec 09 04:24:18 nez800: ive already followed your advice, thanks Dec 09 04:25:30 no prob. youre welcome Dec 09 04:25:49 None of the # codes seem to work on N900 Dec 09 04:26:02 t-mobile #646# to check minutes, for example, does not get processed Dec 09 04:26:07 has anyone noticed this? Dec 09 04:26:44 everybody know that Dec 09 04:26:58 I just got the N900 today so wasn't sure Dec 09 04:27:44 i wondered why that wasn't working. is that the downside to unlocked phones? Dec 09 04:28:40 no I have had unlocked phones before that worked fine with those codes Dec 09 04:29:55 NIY Dec 09 04:31:11 yet implies a plan to implement? Dec 09 04:37:02 that,s plainly spoken a bug in dialer Dec 09 04:37:26 ok, the facebook installer package is actually bigger than the facebook package? Dec 09 04:37:37 clearly i dont understand the point Dec 09 04:37:53 N.B. a bug implemented on purpose XD Dec 09 04:39:35 some funny mood made devels think it'd be a good idea to check numbers for valid format Dec 09 04:40:23 result: bold fail Dec 09 04:40:49 mornin' LL Dec 09 04:42:05 Linux Losesrs? Dec 09 04:42:12 LUE? Dec 09 04:42:39 s/caps_lock/a/ :) Dec 09 04:42:55 it's an acronym Dec 09 04:43:03 but for what Dec 09 04:43:13 Life, Universe, Everything Dec 09 04:43:15 pwnguin, I really don't know... Dec 09 04:43:30 aaaA KFJ Dec 09 04:43:57 I don't understand the need for "installer packages"... can't I just install the app through the apt-get front end? Dec 09 04:44:30 nez800, you mean the ones pre-included? Dec 09 04:44:43 yes, but they also show up in the app manager Dec 09 04:45:08 the package that has the "installer" binary itself you mean? Dec 09 04:45:09 nez800: i could kinda understand a promotional aspect to save on larger packages, but it's tiny Dec 09 04:45:14 yeah. that's so you can remove it :) Dec 09 04:45:18 I did Dec 09 04:45:27 great. then you're all set Dec 09 04:45:32 but of course it is available to install in the app manager Dec 09 04:45:41 so I see "facebook" and "facebook installer" as two entries Dec 09 04:45:49 the actual fb app is smaller according to dpkg than the facebook installer Dec 09 04:46:01 doesn't really matter to me but it might be confusing to other users Dec 09 04:46:19 also did I mention this device shoots amazing video? Dec 09 04:46:21 pwnguin: it probably has crazy deps Dec 09 04:46:22 because it does Dec 09 04:46:30 wtf is facebook ;-P Dec 09 04:46:38 its a book of faces Dec 09 04:46:44 Bookface Dec 09 04:46:53 s/faces/faeces/ Dec 09 04:47:14 s/faces/feces/g Dec 09 04:47:14 s/faces/feces/? Dec 09 04:47:21 oh snap! Dec 09 04:47:23 lol Dec 09 04:47:25 DocScrutinizer51: a long long time ago, in 2004, it was a website where hot chicks in college would create profiles; theoretically it was for communicating with your classmates Dec 09 04:47:36 Jinx nez800 ;) Dec 09 04:47:38 not anymore :( Dec 09 04:47:40 but it's basically a dating tool =/ Dec 09 04:47:48 psh no it's not Dec 09 04:47:53 is it like yourfaceinatube? Dec 09 04:47:58 it's a farmville playing tool >_> Dec 09 04:48:11 johnx: its not anymore, now that they lifted the .edu email restriction Dec 09 04:48:41 pwnguin, you missed a reference :) Dec 09 04:48:52 err Dec 09 04:48:59 bad aim Dec 09 04:49:10 nez: its not anymore, now that they lifted the .edu email restriction Dec 09 04:49:22 I know. I have a facebook Dec 09 04:49:25 nez800: is farmville fun? Dec 09 04:49:44 I don't know, I don't play it. But my friends who do spam my newsfeed with their updates about it Dec 09 04:49:45 Xisdibik, that depends. Do you like watching pretend plants grow? Dec 09 04:50:02 anyways, its a social networking website that people upload pictures to and do stupid things on Dec 09 04:50:08 johnx: yes, i really like the harvest moon series games on the consoles Dec 09 04:50:19 harvest moon >> farmville Dec 09 04:50:25 nez800: :) Dec 09 04:50:29 Xisdibik, this is apparently like the gutted carcass of harvest moon Dec 09 04:50:35 by the way, I made an xkcd app on facebook, in case anyone here likes xkcd Dec 09 04:50:38 johnx: then not what i want ;) Dec 09 04:50:52 nez800: YOU ARE WHAT IS WRONG WITH AMERICA Dec 09 04:51:04 are there any harvest moon type games out (aside from harvest moon)? Dec 09 04:51:04 sweet! :D Dec 09 04:51:12 if not one of you programmer peoples needs to go and make one! Dec 09 04:51:19 Xisdibik, it could also be accurately described as a pyramid scheme without the money Dec 09 04:51:19 we already have an xkcd app Dec 09 04:51:24 its called xkcd Dec 09 04:51:53 the fb app just pull's xkcd.com's JSON feed and writes it to your profile's FBML Dec 09 04:52:01 err... pulls* Dec 09 04:52:10 does it do img hover? Dec 09 04:52:27 hell yeah. I'm not up to version 2.3 for nothing! Dec 09 04:52:30 heh Dec 09 04:53:00 whatev. feed readers handle it just fine Dec 09 04:53:10 omg, now I finally realize N900 is a tool to finally get world dominion of the dark side Dec 09 04:53:13 without spamming about who hit that wuzzle last night Dec 09 04:53:19 no lie: I know people who have facebook as their homepage Dec 09 04:53:29 nez800: like my mom Dec 09 04:53:36 oh god :( Dec 09 04:54:07 people like that should be put up to a wall and shot in the back of the head Dec 09 04:54:11 DAAAARK SIDE Dec 09 04:54:17 or maybe line them up, use one bullet for multiple deaths Dec 09 04:54:22 this might be a dumb question, but is there any way I can sync my MacBook's address book to my N900? Dec 09 04:54:27 * Xisdibik uses the force to choke pwnguin's mom ;) Dec 09 04:54:29 I have like 80 contacts Dec 09 04:54:43 nez800: address book -> gmail -> n900 Dec 09 04:54:59 I can't do that. Gmail messes it up ... already tried Dec 09 04:55:02 nez800: i can tell you one way that i know. it involves a combination of a mouse, and your thumbs and will take you a long time Dec 09 04:55:21 thanks for the sarcasm =) Dec 09 04:55:25 ubuntu has a couchdb thing Dec 09 04:55:32 nez800: anytime :) Dec 09 04:55:33 maybe import from address book to evolution Dec 09 04:55:43 nez800, vcards via bluetooth? Dec 09 04:55:47 ooh that game me an idea Dec 09 04:55:54 game you an idea? :) Dec 09 04:56:02 I'm going to see how Mac OS X stores its address book Dec 09 04:56:14 if it is plain text I can write a script to convert it to a format I can import on the N900 Dec 09 04:56:16 nez800: you can probably export the address book in several formats Dec 09 04:56:27 nope. only "abbu" Dec 09 04:56:33 Macs are lame ;) Dec 09 04:56:36 i wish i knew more about old macs Dec 09 04:56:48 so i could mention a list of incompatible old contact formats Dec 09 04:56:55 ^^ Dec 09 04:57:06 I use a Mac for most things... I have a Linux laptop for coding Dec 09 04:57:11 nez800: works for other people Dec 09 04:57:28 i have a mac, a pc and ubuntu on my desk Dec 09 04:57:44 its pretty damned ridiculus Dec 09 04:58:02 nez800, let me boot this powerbook into os x. you're on 10.5 or 10.6, right? Dec 09 04:58:09 10.6 Dec 09 04:58:27 i get but i dont use the mac much. too annoying Dec 09 04:58:59 someone wrote a program to convert ABBU to CSV Dec 09 04:59:03 yes! link - http://homepage.mac.com/kenferry/software.html Dec 09 04:59:03 heh Dec 09 04:59:12 * paroneayea kinda wants to convert his camera shutter button to be an alt key Dec 09 04:59:20 why? Dec 09 04:59:29 the life of a programmer is mainly building pipe fittings Dec 09 04:59:42 and duct taping things ^ Dec 09 05:00:10 I want to convert the camera button to do the same as the "switch apps/show all apps" button on the screen Dec 09 05:00:16 nez800: in case that was directed at me, because I want to use emacs easier :P Dec 09 05:00:26 johnx: that would be nice Dec 09 05:00:42 so how do i file a bug against a specific package? Dec 09 05:00:44 especially given that the camera slider already is a way to lauch it Dec 09 05:00:47 maemo-applet-fmtx Dec 09 05:01:06 pwnguin: bug.maemo.org Dec 09 05:01:10 pwnguin: bugs.maemo.org Dec 09 05:01:27 I want a settings plugin to customize all that foo Dec 09 05:01:39 nez800, select all your contacts, click file -> export -> vcard Dec 09 05:01:39 i wish lp had been open sourced sooner, cuz i really hate bzilla Dec 09 05:01:54 you should end up with a single file that you can pass to your N900 that included all your contacts Dec 09 05:02:23 johnx: you da man! Dec 09 05:02:29 doing that right now. Dec 09 05:02:37 Good work johnx Dec 09 05:02:47 and if it imports with no problem that you win even more (never tried it ) Dec 09 05:02:47 * Xisdibik puts a gold star on johnx Dec 09 05:03:13 hmm the interface is deceptive - it appears you can only export one vcf at a time, but selecting all lets you do multiple so meh. Dec 09 05:03:31 this is going to make syncing a pain Dec 09 05:04:03 i think thats what "ovi" is for Dec 09 05:04:16 except they want to sync with your other phone Dec 09 05:04:22 yeah Dec 09 05:04:23 really, I want LDAP for my address book :/ Dec 09 05:04:29 and its what couchdb is for, except nobody uses evolution Dec 09 05:04:37 I just want things to work properly ... Dec 09 05:04:58 nez800: you could do something with unison Dec 09 05:05:03 "Import Contacts file"..."no files/folders" Dec 09 05:05:06 oh c'mon Dec 09 05:05:24 ouch Dec 09 05:05:35 hey hey Dec 09 05:05:41 huh? Dec 09 05:05:44 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=35089&goto=newpost Dec 09 05:05:48 oh Dec 09 05:05:51 so those are the files you edit Dec 09 05:05:52 when you are in mass storage mode Dec 09 05:05:54 huh. did you try shooting the vcard over bluetooth? Dec 09 05:06:11 you can't see files on the flash memory when you are in USB mass storage mode. have to unmount it first... Dec 09 05:06:23 yep Dec 09 05:06:24 :) Dec 09 05:06:46 contacts importing.... Dec 09 05:06:48 it seems like every night a different group of people talk about syncing and I try and plug syncevolution.org :) Dec 09 05:06:51 w00t! Dec 09 05:06:52 * Xisdibik crosses fingers Dec 09 05:07:08 nez800, do they look good? Dec 09 05:07:17 let me check Dec 09 05:07:20 everything looks sexy on a n900 screen Dec 09 05:07:24 nez800, sure.mass storage unmounts the whole fs Dec 09 05:07:33 yeah just realized that. Dec 09 05:07:37 but hes on a n800, so who knows Dec 09 05:07:43 like when the N800 unmount the SD card if you take off the back cover Dec 09 05:07:47 no I am on a N900 Dec 09 05:07:55 well, both, actually Dec 09 05:08:05 my solution is to have no friends Dec 09 05:08:07 * nez800 N800 looks in envy at N900's Maemo 5 Dec 09 05:08:11 with no friends i have no contacts to maintain! Dec 09 05:08:27 contacts imported successfully - including pictures too! Dec 09 05:08:34 I am very pleased Dec 09 05:08:48 pwnguin you should try having friends sometime. I heard it's not all too bad. Dec 09 05:08:58 except for friend drama. that sucks. Dec 09 05:09:34 there we go Dec 09 05:09:38 actually, i have friends, its just i only keep in touch with the ones that know IRC Dec 09 05:10:23 IRC > Jabber/GTalk > AIM > pretty much anything > facebook chat (oh god the horror) Dec 09 05:10:36 is maemo-applet-fmtx an official desktop widgit? Dec 09 05:11:08 pwnguin: ill be your friend Dec 09 05:11:13 but only because your name is a play on Penguin Dec 09 05:11:34 pwnage and penguins, whats not to like? Dec 09 05:11:44 nez900: i have Gtalk, and Skype active on my n900, everything else has the boot Dec 09 05:11:45 I want to play supertux now .... Dec 09 05:12:09 nez900: can you test something once u have it installed, play the game, then quit, and tlel me if it leaves a big black square on your screen Dec 09 05:12:10 :D Dec 09 05:12:16 I tried staying signed on to Gtalk and skype from my N900 but the problem is people keep messaging me thinking I am at my desk Dec 09 05:12:17 and leave u in mouse mode Dec 09 05:12:26 * pwnguin takes linux to lanparties Dec 09 05:12:37 nez900: i made new accounts for both, so people know ones mobile and ones not Dec 09 05:12:44 Xisdibik I was going to play it on my laptop but hold on I will try on the N900.. need to install it now Dec 09 05:12:50 nez900: sure :D Dec 09 05:12:53 also that's a good idea. Dec 09 05:12:59 timeless_mbp, hey. are you around? Dec 09 05:13:46 nez900: for skype its nice, though if i decide to subscripbe to a service from them, it means one account will have it one wont, but i can live with that, login to the subscribed one if i need calls from laptop Dec 09 05:14:04 * johnx needs to figure out what he installed that broke pulseaudio on his N900 Dec 09 05:14:06 nez900: for GTalk, ive had two gmail accounts for ages, because i dont want ppl mailing my phone all the time, only select people have that one :) Dec 09 05:14:38 johnx: ouch Dec 09 05:14:58 I am concerned over the battery drain leaving IM signed in all the time Dec 09 05:15:09 i have it set to use 2.5G only Dec 09 05:15:16 and wifi is on all the time (and active with wifi around) Dec 09 05:15:21 I get 3.5G in some parts of campus Dec 09 05:15:22 and it goes the whole day and more Dec 09 05:15:24 and 2G in others Dec 09 05:15:28 DocScrutinizer, it's not like I didn't have it coming. I'd just like to figure out how it happened and get it fixed before tomorrow Dec 09 05:15:33 i get 3-3.5G in alot of places, but i keep it set for 2G Dec 09 05:15:35 as its fine for IM Dec 09 05:15:52 do you have an opinion on a good twitter client for N900? Dec 09 05:16:04 i had Mauku widget Dec 09 05:16:06 didnt use it much Dec 09 05:16:07 removed it Dec 09 05:16:08 johnx: actually I wonder which pkg could bork PA Dec 09 05:16:53 DocScrutinizer, it's actually pretty weird. something happened that's causing PA and the system tray thing to both use 50% of the CPU time and sound and touchscreen vibrations don't work Dec 09 05:17:00 maybe i'll just send an email to the maintainer field and let them figure out where it belongs in bugzilla Dec 09 05:17:13 yay Dec 09 05:17:33 cuz ive got no clue; are there allowed to be packages in extras without a product in bugzilla? Dec 09 05:17:49 and weirdest of all it seems that video no longer plays either (!!) Dec 09 05:17:55 johnx: some hungup notification? Dec 09 05:18:36 maybe. I really hope it was some weird package I installed, but i first noticed it while plugging in headphones and switching to silent mode at the same time Dec 09 05:18:38 video... jmm. Some flash in browser then? Dec 09 05:18:50 seen that on quite a number of desktops Dec 09 05:19:09 dunno about the browser Dec 09 05:19:15 SuperTux is working fine for me. Game play is laggy though. Dec 09 05:19:21 I mean even the boot-up "Nokia hands" video Dec 09 05:19:26 johnx: rebooted? Dec 09 05:19:42 rebooted, pulled battery, left off with battery out for 8 hours (x2) Dec 09 05:19:55 so all my previous ideas are moot Dec 09 05:20:34 yeah. it's got me pretty stumped, and I like to think I have at least a passing familiarity with the maemo architecture Dec 09 05:20:50 plugged/unplugged headphones once or twise again? Dec 09 05:20:55 ...nothing interesting in dmesg... Dec 09 05:21:04 yeah. I'll try the headphones again Dec 09 05:21:16 Putting phone into portrait mode should toggle Phone app, right? Dec 09 05:21:19 known issue from FR Dec 09 05:21:23 or do I have to check a setting Dec 09 05:21:41 yes, in phone settings Dec 09 05:22:09 and not where you think either. ;) it's phone -> settings rather than settings -> phone Dec 09 05:22:21 settings -> phone has nothing related to it Dec 09 05:22:27 thanks for the info johnx would not have found it there Dec 09 05:22:51 took me a while, even after someone told me the setting existed Dec 09 05:22:57 oops sorry for talking ambiguous Dec 09 05:23:11 not your fault Dec 09 05:23:21 it's an ambiguously located setting Dec 09 05:23:31 lol - yeah Dec 09 05:23:35 Relay access denied; from= to= Dec 09 05:23:40 haha Dec 09 05:23:45 erm... where is settings in the phone app? Dec 09 05:23:50 hotmail trying to spam .tw relaying through my mail server? :) Dec 09 05:23:53 so hildon-status-menu and pulseaudio are both going nuts (load average is ~2). no sound, no vibrate-on-screen tap. videos refuse to play Dec 09 05:23:58 what is this world coming to? Dec 09 05:24:02 johnx: what's up now with Ur audio? Dec 09 05:24:02 wtf uses hotmail anymore? Dec 09 05:24:03 nez900, from the menu at the top Dec 09 05:24:05 never mind I found it .. "Turning control" Dec 09 05:24:24 johnx: what happens if you kill pulseaudio? Dec 09 05:24:28 now that i think about it... does anybody use aol anymore? Dec 09 05:24:35 it respawns with the same problem Dec 09 05:24:39 like actual aol? didn't tw buy them out or something? Dec 09 05:24:44 nez900, a terrifying amount Dec 09 05:25:07 hmmm...though maybe that's just people who have @aol.com webmail addresses Dec 09 05:25:08 .com.tw is not time warner Dec 09 05:25:12 do they give those out free now? Dec 09 05:25:12 it's taiwan Dec 09 05:25:27 are you sure time warner doesn't own taiwan? Dec 09 05:25:33 johnx: booting or shutdown with hs plugged is a known problem on some linuxes Dec 09 05:25:43 yup Dec 09 05:25:47 been through multiple reboots now Dec 09 05:26:02 and some other things with the status-area seem to be "wacky" Dec 09 05:26:03 nez900: tested Super Tux yet? Dec 09 05:26:22 johnx: weird. scary Dec 09 05:26:47 Xisdibik: yes I said earlier that it worked fine although gameplay was a bit laggy Dec 09 05:26:48 johnx: anyway I'm short of ideas now Dec 09 05:26:49 actually the status-area menu no longer shows any buttons, just a flat dark grey box Dec 09 05:26:54 nez900: strange ok Dec 09 05:26:59 and by a bit I mean it was jumping around ... Dec 09 05:27:16 * johnx digs into gconf Dec 09 05:27:23 nez900: was smooth as butter for me Dec 09 05:27:45 gonna get me some food and g'night then Dec 09 05:27:49 strange. and my N900 is brand new Dec 09 05:27:52 ali1234: ping Dec 09 05:27:56 goodnight doc Dec 09 05:28:48 'night DocScrutinizer Dec 09 05:30:28 sometimes my N900 screen goes totally black and I have to slide the keyboard out and in to make it come back Dec 09 05:30:31 is this normal? Dec 09 05:30:55 my n800 does that when its idle. I need to hit a hardware button to wake it up Dec 09 05:31:03 the phone is locking :) Dec 09 05:31:14 you can use the slider on the side to turn it back on as well Dec 09 05:31:19 no, I mean in the middle of using an app Dec 09 05:31:23 I know when it locks Dec 09 05:31:24 duh Dec 09 05:31:28 :P Dec 09 05:31:48 sorry :P had someone ask the same question the other night and he *didn't* know it locked Dec 09 05:31:56 oh Dec 09 05:32:04 it does go to screen-off pretty quick though Dec 09 05:32:10 yeah at first I thought the slider was to take off the back cover Dec 09 05:32:20 but the manual (who reads those!?) said it was not Dec 09 05:32:24 that one suprised me a bit, because I use x11vnc to work on it and out of nowhere it will lock and hald the inputs dont work via VNC anymore Dec 09 05:32:29 heh. brute force is to take off the back cover Dec 09 05:32:37 half* Dec 09 05:32:41 I was scared I was going to break it Dec 09 05:32:51 I bricked my N800 the first day I had it when upgrading IT OS2008 Dec 09 05:32:53 it loosens up a bit after a while Dec 09 05:33:04 like actually bricked it? Dec 09 05:33:09 that's pretty rare Dec 09 05:33:11 I don't really see a need to take the back cover off all too much unless your N900 freezes though Dec 09 05:33:16 yeah. really bricked. Dec 09 05:33:28 wouldn't even turn on the blue LEDs under the D-pad Dec 09 05:34:00 did the battery completely die during flash? Dec 09 05:34:31 the now-defunct circuit city honored the return policy not knowing that my USB hub reset itself during the flashing process Dec 09 05:35:35 my local circuit city is now an empty building with a christmas tree lot out front in the parking lot Dec 09 05:36:34 moo all Dec 09 05:37:18 m00f RST38h Dec 09 05:37:25 heya Dec 09 05:37:39 moo Dec 09 05:38:06 johnx, Arkenoi: Vulture's Eye is now in Extras-Devel Dec 09 05:38:12 It is optified, so safe to install Dec 09 05:38:29 will try Dec 09 05:38:35 RST38h, what was the permissions weirdness? Dec 09 05:39:01 johnx: Looks like my chmod g+s did not quite work yesterday morning Dec 09 05:39:14 the ali124 guy noticed it in the ls -la yesterday night Dec 09 05:43:10 uqm package says it depends on joydev package, which is unavailable Dec 09 05:43:27 hey pupnik Dec 09 05:43:39 GUYS I JUST MADE an amazing discovery! Ovi is like Mobile Me except... FREE. Let's all go tell those iPhone users to shove it! Dec 09 05:43:48 pupnik: yea, uqm is currently broken in the repo. But you can always play with V instead :) Dec 09 05:44:13 What us Mobile Me? Who needs it? Who needs Ovi, too? Dec 09 05:44:34 beats me Dec 09 05:45:21 uqm as most games is not playable on 2-arrows keyboard :-( Dec 09 05:45:28 it is quite common bug Dec 09 05:45:33 yeah :( Dec 09 05:46:20 Arkenoi: bit the bullet and tell Maemo that your keyboard is "Netherlands/UK"? Dec 09 05:46:28 s/bit/bite Dec 09 05:47:09 RST38h, i need a dynamic switcher then - i type much of cyrillic text Dec 09 05:47:49 Arkenoi: ukeyboad may help, try Dec 09 05:48:00 ukeyboard Dec 09 05:52:29 you could maybe have the touchscreen kbd in one layout and the hw one in another? Dec 09 05:52:39 if that works for you Dec 09 05:52:59 it does not work for him. Dec 09 05:53:09 nor fo anyone, really =( Dec 09 05:56:47 anyone else have an idea on why hildon-status-menu and pulseaudio are both trying trying to use all my CPU time (50% user, 50% system)? Otherwise, I'll just backup my stuff and reflash Dec 09 05:57:14 * johnx <3 the touchscreen keyboard Dec 09 06:02:51 johnx: I would kill pulseaudio process Dec 09 06:03:01 johnx: my pulseaudio only uses ~20-30% cpu when theres audio playing Dec 09 06:03:11 probably got stuck somewhere Dec 09 06:03:24 i think its very high though Dec 09 06:03:57 no redeeman that is there to show you how fast the N900 cpu is Dec 09 06:04:05 RST38h, yeah. it got stuck over like 5 reboots and a battery pull. i can summarize other things I've tried if you're interested Dec 09 06:04:33 pupnik: theres no excuse whatsoever for an audio daemon using that much cpu on a fast system like the N900 :) Dec 09 06:04:42 redeeman, that sounds quite hich indeed. maybe for some reason it needs to do resampling? Dec 09 06:04:50 the excuse is a mistake was made. ever made a mistake redeeman ? Dec 09 06:04:51 redeeman, what if the CPU is running at low speed? Dec 09 06:05:11 pupnik: well.. true, but that should have been caught Dec 09 06:05:18 johnx: What are you running in background? Any specific widgets? Dec 09 06:05:24 johnx: yeah, i've been thinking that, but i don't think the cortex-a8 can scale that low Dec 09 06:05:37 johnx: and realistically, we're talking seriously low frequency for it to consume that much Dec 09 06:05:40 redeeman, it scales to 250MHz Dec 09 06:05:48 unless it resamples and uses a VERY fancy algorithm Dec 09 06:06:05 * RST38h reiterates his desire to exterminate everyone who starts another audio framework for Linux Dec 09 06:06:08 :) glad you are also bothered by it redeeman Dec 09 06:06:29 redeeman, it involves "digital amplification" IIRC :) Dec 09 06:06:43 RST38h: no, you should rather exterminate those who would use it Dec 09 06:06:52 that's an interesting thought. but I'm not running anything I wasn't before this happened Dec 09 06:07:04 redeeman: I am going for a greener solution. Fewer bodies. Dec 09 06:07:22 RST38h: more bodies means less wasteful cars used Dec 09 06:07:24 :) Dec 09 06:07:38 the part that weirds me out is hildon-status-menu using up CPU as well Dec 09 06:07:45 yes, that's strange Dec 09 06:07:51 BTW, if I understand things correctly, Maemo6 will be switching to Phonon? ;))) Dec 09 06:07:57 RST38h: hopefully Dec 09 06:08:06 johnx: Why not kill the process? It should restart. Dec 09 06:08:18 johnx: or strace by pid and see what it is doing Dec 09 06:08:31 it seems very likely they will switch to phonon, they have after all integrated it as part of Qt, and it is superior to pulseaudio :) Dec 09 06:08:44 i really want maemo 6 :D Dec 09 06:08:47 yea, right...superior...yeah... Dec 09 06:08:51 RST38h, tried rebooting, tried killing processes Dec 09 06:08:55 haven't straced yet Dec 09 06:08:59 I will now that I'm backed up Dec 09 06:09:16 RST38h: pulseaudio is below garbage for a wide variety of reasons Dec 09 06:09:32 that's what they all say... Dec 09 06:09:39 i hope so Dec 09 06:09:53 is garbage Dec 09 06:10:08 yes well.. the difference is, most of them don't know anything about it Dec 09 06:10:14 they probably had some issue, and go "garbage" Dec 09 06:10:15 and you do? :) Dec 09 06:10:20 as a matter of fact, yes Dec 09 06:10:27 * RST38h wants /dev/dsp back. Dec 09 06:10:42 redeeman, cool. why is phonon better than pulseaudio Dec 09 06:10:46 Or /dev/pcm. Or /dev/audio. Dec 09 06:10:50 * johnx is curious Dec 09 06:11:00 i agree, oss was better(in principle, the linux implementation was crap) Dec 09 06:11:03 That was the last working audio. Dec 09 06:11:11 alsa works too Dec 09 06:11:22 as long as it is /dev/dsp, yes Dec 09 06:11:29 when it is ALSA, it does not work Dec 09 06:11:35 it does Dec 09 06:11:43 you probably use a distribution that ships a non default config Dec 09 06:11:50 or one that ships broken application configs Dec 09 06:11:53 yay. we're having this discussion again! just what I always wanted Dec 09 06:11:56 * RST38h sighs Dec 09 06:11:57 the free linux implementation was limited Dec 09 06:12:13 ShadowJK: And that is exactly how I like it. Limited. Dec 09 06:12:17 the only mp3 player that has 'delete current track' appears to be 'dbpoweramp' Dec 09 06:12:17 pro tip: you guys won't convince each other. Dec 09 06:12:19 ShadowJK: To playing audio. Dec 09 06:12:23 now fix my problem instead :) Dec 09 06:12:28 johnx: pulseaudio is extremely buggy, that can ofc be fixed, but its also having various issues, for instance relatively high latency, it messes up badly with lots of streams, it has a tendancy to introduce jitter Dec 09 06:12:48 oss has alsa emulation these days, amusingly enough :) Dec 09 06:12:53 redeeman, and you think this is inherent to the design rather than implementation? Dec 09 06:12:58 * ShadowJK wonders if it still costs money Dec 09 06:13:07 ShadowJK, everything has everything emulation :) Dec 09 06:13:29 johnx: nah, it can probably be fixed, though its design is somewhat limited in the latency regard - allthough phonon isn't designed for lowlatency either Dec 09 06:13:42 alsa is highly capable of introducing multisecond jitter of its own :-) Dec 09 06:14:11 ShadowJK, but it's easier if we use pulseaudio! hey, wait... Dec 09 06:14:38 then you have alsa redirecting to pulse redirecting to alsa that eventually feeds it to hw... Dec 09 06:14:55 yes lol, complete madness Dec 09 06:15:01 except that lowest level alsa is actually really oss-alsa emulation Dec 09 06:15:21 some people also pipe it over jack from pulseaudio Dec 09 06:15:25 which then goes alsa Dec 09 06:15:38 can we get esd involved somehow? or maybe arts? Dec 09 06:15:49 yes, but not easily :P Dec 09 06:15:56 ofcourse not that the other stuff is easy Dec 09 06:16:00 goodnight all! I thank you for your help. Dec 09 06:16:01 plain alsa is far easier Dec 09 06:16:20 nez900, 'night Dec 09 06:16:28 yeah. I was pretty happy with alsa+dmix Dec 09 06:16:35 the thing is Dec 09 06:16:40 mplayer without the "I have broken sound"-switch is alot smoother if you tell it to access alsa hw:0.0 directly instead of alsa default device :-) Dec 09 06:16:41 99% of the people that complain about audio on linux Dec 09 06:16:58 ... if you haven't got broken sound drivers, that is Dec 09 06:17:14 are either using a distribution with an insane setup, like.. pulseaudio or worse, or uses applications that access hw directly Dec 09 06:17:20 dmix works very well for nearly all uses Dec 09 06:17:37 so all people gotta do is instruct their application not to take the hardware by the balls, and they'll do fine Dec 09 06:17:47 (which should be a sane default, and is in most applications) Dec 09 06:17:51 dmix was worse than pulseaudio by miles Dec 09 06:18:13 dmix has worked without issues since they enabled it by default many many years ago Dec 09 06:18:33 with a few exceptions such as mmaping etc Dec 09 06:19:40 the first version forked behind an application's back, and you were left with dozens of rogue copies of random programs, all hanging dmix in some way until you went hunting for them Dec 09 06:19:52 they changed that later I think Dec 09 06:20:13 i've never had that Dec 09 06:20:28 and i've used it since on my first amd64 box, which was when amd64 was introduced Dec 09 06:20:38 so needless to say, its a long time ago Dec 09 06:20:54 ShadowJK: that's a problem with the fork design of *nix :/ Dec 09 06:21:30 not sure if dmix ever gave correct buffer fill data back to apps. When I last tried it, it could say "there's 500ms worth of audio in the buffer" for 400ms and then jump to 0 Dec 09 06:22:25 i don't know if i've tried that, i've had some files that played weirdly, but i suspect that's the files, though i obviously cannot be 100% sure Dec 09 06:22:38 luke-jr: it's why libraries shouldn't unexpectedly fork() behind an application's back. it's asking for bugs, and bugs it got Dec 09 06:24:37 oh well.. time for me to sleep, its 07:24 :) night Dec 09 06:24:56 ShadowJK: unfortunately, there is no clean way to create a new process other than forking Dec 09 06:25:15 there might be some clone() variant that can do it, but clone isn't POSIX Dec 09 06:25:32 it's alsa, they don't have to be portable Dec 09 06:25:37 true :) Dec 09 06:25:55 they could probably even just use threads actually Dec 09 06:26:23 linux doesn't have the ordinary concept of threads Dec 09 06:26:32 ... Dec 09 06:26:44 but yeah Dec 09 06:26:52 are the maemo sdk images for virtualbox or vmware? Dec 09 06:26:58 creating threads behind an apps back is also evil Dec 09 06:27:02 whatever 'ordinary concept' means Dec 09 06:27:59 It's 22:27, and I'm still at the office Dec 09 06:28:13 We're waiting for this chick in Oz to finish some stuff for us before we can go home Dec 09 06:28:16 crashanddie, why? Dec 09 06:28:20 ah Dec 09 06:28:29 is her name Dorothy? Dec 09 06:28:48 we're throwing stress balls at each other because of the boredom Dec 09 06:28:59 hyuk hyuk Dec 09 06:29:00 basically, it's like they wanted to hide that there existed a sound server, so they made their lib fork a new process for every app and communicate over shm (or something like that).. they could've avoided all the wtf by not trying to hide it :) Dec 09 06:29:19 Two of the balls collided in mid-air Dec 09 06:29:39 We burst out in laughter, and I semi-yell: "Haha, I love it when our balls smash into each other" Dec 09 06:29:45 The girls goes: "WTF?" Dec 09 06:30:15 I'm supposed to be her boss... Dec 09 06:31:12 you should've just asked if she's got anything against guys having fun Dec 09 06:33:55 we're done Dec 09 06:33:55 I'm out Dec 09 06:33:57 talk later Dec 09 06:55:35 hey, using butterfly IM in maemo Dec 09 06:55:42 ... Dec 09 06:56:03 i see msn info in the contacts compartment for every contact that isn't online Dec 09 06:56:36 and for the ones that are online, theres the green dot next to their image, naturally - but the msn icon / contact adress isn't listed in the view Dec 09 06:56:44 unless I click edit, then I can see it Dec 09 06:57:20 so basicly, butterfly lets me contact offline contacts by doubleclicking the address.. but it disappears for online ppl, so i have to navigate manually to Instant Messaging and pick them off from that list Dec 09 06:58:01 it's np in a way, but seems bit odd that i can call them, sms them from the normal contact field, even send im messages - but not if they are online Dec 09 06:58:10 is this some sort of bug or intended, anyone know? Dec 09 06:59:35 I'm thinking it's a bug Dec 09 06:59:47 did you try msn haze? Dec 09 07:11:54 definately a bug, tested with a fresh contacts (emptied, rebooted device, tested on 2ndary msn account) Dec 09 07:12:10 can see the icon to send im for everyone - except the two contacts that are online Dec 09 07:12:36 johnx: does msn haze integrate into contacts so that i can IM straight from there? Dec 09 07:12:42 yeah Dec 09 07:12:46 at least for me that worked Dec 09 07:12:47 aight Dec 09 07:12:49 saw fring Dec 09 07:12:55 it's like "account-plugins-haze" or something Dec 09 07:12:55 and atleats on iphone it was just standalone app Dec 09 07:13:07 ill dl haze and give it a go ty Dec 09 07:13:15 sure. :) Dec 09 07:15:06 no hits for "haze" via search in N900 app control Dec 09 07:15:14 am i missing some app list? Dec 09 07:15:28 got extras-testing and fremantle tools added Dec 09 07:15:32 ah. it might be in extras-testing or extras-devel Dec 09 07:15:48 it'll be account-plugins- I think Dec 09 07:15:52 search will search the extras testing too ofc? Dec 09 07:16:02 I think so Dec 09 07:16:13 I just looked at the "All" listing Dec 09 07:16:32 only have two account-plugins Dec 09 07:16:33 actually, I'll help you look in a sec. I'm reflashing now Dec 09 07:16:34 idle and salut Dec 09 07:16:55 ill search for devel list meanwhile, dont think i have it Dec 09 07:17:33 you might want to disable devel after installing account-plugins from it as stuff there can be a little shakier than extras or testing Dec 09 07:18:25 i've gathered as much Dec 09 07:18:39 dont feel like taking my device to service after i finally have everything set up :) Dec 09 07:19:06 im happy having root control, apt-get, wget, nano, ircing, msn Dec 09 07:19:14 but the 1 is lacking so bit more tweaking =) Dec 09 07:19:30 i love how maemo.org requires three different logins Dec 09 07:25:12 johnx: i read some bugging in haze aswell Dec 09 07:25:33 some guy having his msn connection stuck, uninstalled haze but couldnt get any other work afterwards Dec 09 07:25:43 and incorrect setting of nick / status Dec 09 07:26:07 so unsure if its worth the hazzle? or do you have any knowledge about recent bugfixes in it? Dec 09 07:26:42 errr...I was using it up until last night Dec 09 07:27:11 it seems to work just fine most of the time Dec 09 07:27:14 Is there a bugtracker for Witter? Dec 09 07:27:30 it did have trouble getting "stuck" in some situations I think, though Dec 09 07:27:49 Does Mono come preinstalled on the N900? Dec 09 07:28:23 no Dec 09 07:29:15 rashed2020, no mono for N900, but I read somewhere that it's coming. Maybe. Dec 09 07:30:51 mece: No mono, period? Or no Mono installed? Dec 09 07:31:53 Oh, I got it. Shame :/ Dec 09 07:32:06 no mono installed or ported yet i think Dec 09 07:33:12 I think it was for the previous maemos, so porting it should not be a big issue Dec 09 07:36:43 rashed2020, no mono _yet_ :) I did read on a blog somewhere that it's actually in the works. I forget where so might not be reliable. Dec 09 08:15:27 mono sucks Dec 09 08:34:28 hi Dec 09 08:35:01 any of you know how to create a ringtone for the n900? i just took one of my aac files from itunes and threw it in the ringtones folder Dec 09 08:35:14 but it doesn't show up in the list of ringtones. does it limit it by size? Dec 09 08:35:19 lol Dec 09 08:35:32 I dont have a n900, but im pretty sure AAC files are locked to iTunes and your specific ipod Dec 09 08:35:36 try an MP3 Dec 09 08:35:45 i don't think the n900 has native aac support Dec 09 08:36:02 ^^ what foxx said as well Dec 09 08:36:31 all the default ringtones on the n900 are .aac files Dec 09 08:36:57 iTunes still locks the files so they cant be played on anything else Dec 09 08:37:01 hello maemo Dec 09 08:37:05 no, i tunes doesn't do that naymore Dec 09 08:37:10 itunes* Dec 09 08:37:10 hello wazd Dec 09 08:37:21 mornin all o/ Dec 09 08:37:30 i can already play my aac file on the n900 music player Dec 09 08:37:37 no?? *shrugs* that is why I stopped using it, that and its a horrible piece of software in general Dec 09 08:37:38 i just can't get it working as a ringtone Dec 09 08:37:55 no, apple removed drm months ago Dec 09 08:38:25 I dont see how they could have gotten away with that with the RIAA and all Dec 09 08:38:41 uh Dec 09 08:38:45 this happened ages ago Dec 09 08:38:53 all the big record labels got on board Dec 09 08:39:12 well, have you tried an MP3 to rule out a file format issue? Dec 09 08:39:23 not yet, but i was going to try. i'm just trying to find a converter Dec 09 08:39:24 or perhaps read the owners manual? Dec 09 08:39:37 what OS do you use? Dec 09 08:39:42 OS X Dec 09 08:40:07 also, since my file formats match between the default ringtones and my music file, you'd think it'd work Dec 09 08:40:10 whelp, im useless, I dont have a mac Dec 09 08:40:30 I like having computers that go beyond the sloagn "it just works" Dec 09 08:40:39 otherise I would have suggested mediacoder Dec 09 08:41:10 Pandora looks so oldskool, oh my :) Dec 09 08:41:29 Foxx: oh, you don't know macs very well then :) Dec 09 08:41:52 not very well, all of my development is done under linux and windows Dec 09 08:42:08 OSX doesnt allow hardware level access to my hardware Dec 09 08:42:10 alright, got the N900 mounted on my mac and am using "file" to check the file formats. they do in fact differ Dec 09 08:42:20 will just have to convert this i guess, even though both are aac Dec 09 08:42:24 they are just different aac Dec 09 08:43:05 dont get me wrong, im not against macs or OSX, but for my personal applications they dont work for me Dec 09 08:43:16 hell, I still use DOS Dec 09 08:43:30 yeah Dec 09 08:43:40 the right tool for the right job, as they say Dec 09 08:43:42 i don't hold it against you; everyone has their style Dec 09 08:43:51 yeah Dec 09 08:44:03 I recently did a class on NES Hacking and such, there are no decent debuggers for OSX Dec 09 08:44:18 I'm not against OSX or Macs, but Apple sucks :D Dec 09 08:44:23 Linux and Windows, I had to help someone cross compile an old branch of the FCE Ultra emulator Dec 09 08:44:23 just kidding :) Dec 09 08:44:39 Foxx: what kind of debuggers? Dec 09 08:44:46 we have xcode Dec 09 08:44:48 NES Dec 09 08:44:59 using gdb in the backend, but i don't know what you were doing exactly Dec 09 08:45:01 Nintendo Entertainment System Dec 09 08:45:02 funny, i thought a osx user would buy an iphone not a non-consumer rated n900 Dec 09 08:45:13 yeah, i know the NES. they have a special debugger for that? Dec 09 08:45:25 an* Dec 09 08:45:27 Dec 09 08:45:28 I wouldnt call it special, its all open source Dec 09 08:45:38 Termana: i do own an iphone Dec 09 08:45:48 but this just shows your ignorance :) Dec 09 08:45:54 just nobody has really gotten it ported to OSX with specific optomizations Dec 09 08:46:00 Foxx: ah, understood Dec 09 08:46:29 this is one of those cases where a 400Mhz PC is a good enough tool, just because the tools exist Dec 09 08:46:47 I have some kick ass hardware fpr my hacking stuffs that have no OSX support at all Dec 09 08:46:57 no, i'm just recalling the fact most males that use a mac have man-love with steve jobs. females love him too, just look at ijustine Dec 09 08:47:04 EEPROM/FlashROM emulators and programmers, and things of the like Dec 09 08:47:33 i do love steve jobs Dec 09 08:47:38 i have a man crush Dec 09 08:47:52 I also dont know of any circuit simulators for OSX, although it would probably outperform a PC Dec 09 08:47:56 but it stops at the app store and their approval (rejection?) process Dec 09 08:48:28 Foxx: hmm, i can't help you there. i would like to know of one myself Dec 09 08:48:38 if you find out, let me know? Dec 09 08:48:42 well at least you admit your man crush :P lol Dec 09 08:48:46 lol Dec 09 08:48:52 i'm not a big EE guy (yet), but i do dabble in hobby robotics sometimes Dec 09 08:49:09 Termana: totally :-) Dec 09 08:51:51 does anyone else have an issue with the the IM sound being played if you get an IM with headphones connected while playing something in the media player even though my IM sound volume is zero Dec 09 08:52:00 it only happens with headphones in and media playing Dec 09 08:52:12 well with media playing i haven't tested with ehadphones out Dec 09 08:53:10 KMFDM, There is an "IM sound volume"? Dec 09 08:53:24 andre__, yeah Dec 09 08:53:29 in profile Dec 09 08:53:45 together with sms Dec 09 08:53:46 email Dec 09 08:53:51 and ringtone Dec 09 08:54:10 it is incredibly annoying as im usually carrying on 3-4 IM chats Dec 09 08:54:18 and now i can't play music on the phone Dec 09 08:54:22 it only happens since I flashed the device Dec 09 08:54:39 perhaps it is a media player setting i forgot to change back Dec 09 08:55:01 oh. hehe :) Dec 09 08:56:12 wow, just wow Dec 09 08:56:26 KMFDM, what account type? Dec 09 08:56:32 slonopotamus: mm? Dec 09 08:56:53 andre__, what IM account type is causing the beeps? Dec 09 08:56:54 * slonopotamus goes tomorrow to local nokia representative get his n900-gift-from-nokia Dec 09 08:57:06 slonopotamus: scary - what'd you have to do to get that? :P Dec 09 08:57:07 KMFDM, Gmail, XMPP, Jabber, ICQ, MSN? :-P Dec 09 08:57:19 slonopotamus: N900 key chain? :) Dec 09 08:57:26 yeah i wnanted to be sure that is what you meant/ I have only tested with gmail so far Dec 09 08:57:55 KMFDM, want to send me a message via Gmail so I can test it? :-) Dec 09 08:57:59 Stskeeps: you won't believe me. absolutely nothing :) just got email yesterday that they wanted to give it to me since i am 'expert in this area and my opinion is important to them' :) Dec 09 08:58:00 I wonder why nokia is so kind to everyone except me :D Dec 09 08:58:21 does anyone have any idea how to install crl:s to n900. S60 phones had it through browser but N900 browser doesn't understand certificate files Dec 09 08:58:24 sure PM me your address or post it here Dec 09 08:58:41 X-Fade: :P Dec 09 08:58:45 slonopotamus: sounds like a typical spam mail. Will you also receive millions of dollars? ;-) Dec 09 08:58:59 wazd: you're obviously doing too much. if you had kept quiet, they would have slipped you one? ;p Dec 09 08:59:17 andre__: they're really nokia representative. and they confirmed when i called them by phone Dec 09 08:59:37 Stskeeps: yeah, maybe the world has changed :D Dec 09 08:59:48 slonopotamus: and you won't be kidnapped and put to work in the Maemo Siberian Work Camp for Coders? Dec 09 08:59:53 wazd: maybe someone from nokia likes gentoo :D Dec 09 08:59:53 Stskeeps: less action -> more free stuff :) Dec 09 09:00:25 gentoo, where you become an expert overnight by watching shit scroll by the screen Dec 09 09:00:30 the faster it goes, the more expert you are Dec 09 09:00:39 Vratha: wrong Dec 09 09:00:51 well, that's what a website told me Dec 09 09:00:57 Vratha: it shouldn't go too fast Dec 09 09:01:05 Vratha: there's some local optimum Dec 09 09:01:11 slonopotamus: yeah, that's how it works I guess :) You need to be loved by someone in nokia :) Dec 09 09:01:13 hmm, application manager startup says: operation failed. log shows 'apt-worker exited.' and 'sudo: /etc/sudoers is zero length'. time for a reflash? =) Dec 09 09:01:20 gentoo goes for a global optimum Dec 09 09:01:22 with racing stripes Dec 09 09:01:48 wazd: i wonder whom i'll have to thank for that :) Dec 09 09:02:39 slonopotamus: i see what they're doing.. trying to get as many coders away from n8x0 as possible :P Dec 09 09:02:58 if suddenly luke-jr receives one, we have to be suspicious Dec 09 09:02:59 :P Dec 09 09:03:30 hehe :) Dec 09 09:04:00 wazd, your best tactic is obviously to only do gfx for n8x0 ;) Dec 09 09:04:14 Stskeeps: wazd :D Dec 09 09:04:47 Stskeeps: heh :) Dec 09 09:05:00 Stskeeps: that's a bit boring :) Dec 09 09:05:18 yeah :P Dec 09 09:05:29 KMFDM, seen my PM? Dec 09 09:06:13 wazd: did you try qt designer and such yet btw? Dec 09 09:06:15 btw, is n900 as brickable as n8x0? Dec 09 09:06:21 * andre__ realizes that he has blogged this morning. damn scheduled posts :-P Dec 09 09:06:40 mutter - is texrat for real? Dec 09 09:06:49 vesa, do you have an ssh-server running? Dec 09 09:06:49 what did he do now? Dec 09 09:06:58 Stskeeps: yep, nice stuff Dec 09 09:07:12 Stskeeps: haven't tried it really close though Dec 09 09:07:36 is there an alt key (meta?) Dec 09 09:07:44 http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=417989&postcount=11 <- insane insane people Dec 09 09:08:29 stskeeps, I wouldn't be surprised if the device starts failing after some time after the water test.. Dec 09 09:09:05 flx_: i use sshfs, but no server running afaik Dec 09 09:09:06 thats almost as bad as 'Will it Blend?' Dec 09 09:09:20 stskeep lol Dec 09 09:09:41 i guess esc suffices Dec 09 09:09:43 oh, I've reached 11k downloads total in Maemo 5 extras! Celebrate! :D Dec 09 09:09:51 hm maybeee they had choose fire Dec 09 09:09:53 someone needs to tell that person smashing a device does not equal a brick Dec 09 09:09:57 Stskeeps: Check out his youtube videos. Dec 09 09:10:10 morning x-fade Dec 09 09:10:16 Stskeeps: The phone takes quite some abuse. Dec 09 09:10:27 Stskeeps: community flyer ... quim offered a critique and he threw his toys out of his pram Dec 09 09:10:44 not manhy moving parts to fail Dec 09 09:12:05 vesa, well, I think in that case you're out of luck.. Dec 09 09:12:17 lbt_: ah, yeah Dec 09 09:12:35 X-Fade, erlang still going I presume ? Dec 09 09:12:38 flx_: thought so, oh well. i have backups Dec 09 09:12:45 X-Fade, if so, is there a prize for 'longest build' ? :) Dec 09 09:13:11 isn't that webkit? Dec 09 09:13:12 :P Dec 09 09:13:21 homeasvs: inet_gethost inet_gethost 4 Dec 09 09:13:38 homeasvs: Does that try to connect to the outside world? Dec 09 09:13:39 X-Fade, well, at least it's stumbling towards the finish line :) Dec 09 09:13:52 I am not sure to be honest Dec 09 09:13:55 let's hope not Dec 09 09:14:00 I assume your build machine would block that Dec 09 09:14:09 homeasvs: host is sandboxed, so that doesn't work. Dec 09 09:14:24 but it would make it error out no ? Dec 09 09:14:38 homeasvs: Depends on the app ;) Dec 09 09:14:47 homeasvs: If it has a timeout, then yes. Dec 09 09:15:24 andre__, i replied Dec 09 09:17:34 thanks Dec 09 09:18:43 hijo wazd Dec 09 09:19:11 damn why they fremantle sdk needs -Wl,--rpath-link so often Dec 09 09:19:19 woglinde, heya again :) Dec 09 09:19:20 instead of -L -l Dec 09 09:22:58 Hi folks - can anyone tell me where to obtain powertop for n900? Dec 09 09:26:01 AdmiralSausage install sdk grab the debian package recompile it Dec 09 09:26:09 and install it Dec 09 09:26:53 but maybee it will not work Dec 09 09:27:08 because its focused on x86 Dec 09 09:27:43 woglinde: Ah OK thanks. Only had this thing 1 day - I will get to that point but I'm not there yet. Other folks are using it happily on the N900 already (& I don't think they each compiled it individually but could be wrong) Dec 09 09:27:48 woglinde: it will work, just compile it against arm Dec 09 09:28:16 powertop should really be in extras Dec 09 09:28:23 i mean, people should use it for extras-testing Dec 09 09:28:27 Stskeeps it isnt Dec 09 09:28:31 I checked it Dec 09 09:28:43 weird Dec 09 09:29:25 hm or has extras-testing non-free seciton? Dec 09 09:30:33 hm it hase Dec 09 09:30:48 but no powertop Dec 09 09:30:57 hm I will upload it tomorrow Dec 09 09:31:16 ok, can anybody tell me, does n900 has usb-host?) Dec 09 09:31:17 how do you gain root on the device? r Dec 09 09:31:29 can I reset the users password? Dec 09 09:31:32 wazd_n800: we're not sure. it doesn't have usb otg. Dec 09 09:31:33 woglinde: That's great, thanks. I will wait till then! Dec 09 09:32:05 Stskeeps, yeah, that's what I heard Dec 09 09:32:29 Stskeeps, how Nokia Push works then? Dec 09 09:32:42 wazd_n800: bluetooth probably Dec 09 09:33:08 Stskeeps, hmm Dec 09 09:34:04 AdmiralSausage I quick test if it compiles right now Dec 09 09:34:58 morning Dec 09 09:35:04 good morning Dec 09 09:35:30 morning Dec 09 09:35:47 noon Dec 09 09:35:51 woglinde: Thanks. Weird cos some of the posts on talk.maemo.org imply that is comes preinstalled ("you don't have to install it you just have to be root"). Maybe it was on a prerelease/testing firmware Dec 09 09:36:06 AdmiralSausage hm Dec 09 09:36:13 I am testing in sdk Dec 09 09:36:26 Morning, all Dec 09 09:36:53 Jaffa, heya Dec 09 09:37:53 AdmiralSausage hm dont you have powertop? Dec 09 09:38:33 No. "/bin/sh: powertop: not found" Dec 09 09:38:40 did someone succeed in doing a screencast with the load-applet tool? Dec 09 09:38:52 woglinde: "find / -name powertop" comes back with nothing too. Dec 09 09:39:01 sudo powertop? Dec 09 09:39:05 -> mgedmin'sudo powertop' worksforme on the .41-10 fw Dec 09 09:39:14 that was 3.11.2009 Dec 09 09:39:15 here Dec 09 09:41:14 nice, the device has powertop, hadn't noticed :) Dec 09 09:41:16 woglinde: "sudo powertop" asks me for a password if I'm user. As root, it returns immediately with no output (as it does for any nonexistant binary) Dec 09 09:41:55 AdmiralSausage: Become root (install rootsh, and then type 'sudo gainroot' or 'root'); then you can run powertop. Dec 09 09:42:01 `user' doesn't have sudo power OOTB Dec 09 09:42:32 Jaffa: I did. I don't have the binary. Dec 09 09:42:35 does C4 level mean full sleep? Dec 09 09:42:52 Jaffa: where does it live on your device? Dec 09 09:42:53 admiralsausage, how about, after going root, doing apt-get install powertop ? Dec 09 09:43:01 /sbin/powertop here Dec 09 09:43:20 ntp security updates Dec 09 09:43:40 flx_: "E: Couldn't find package powertop" Dec 09 09:44:11 flx_: I don't have a /sbin/powertop either Dec 09 09:45:07 I have FW version 1.2009.42-11.203.2 Dec 09 09:45:10 funny, grep -l powertop /var/lib/apt/lists/* says nothing to me Dec 09 09:45:39 (and I have extras, extras-devel in addition to the standard nokia site) Dec 09 09:46:17 flx_: sdk/tools ? Dec 09 09:46:18 admiralsausage, does your prompt say Nokia-N900-42-11? Dec 09 09:47:06 hi Dec 09 09:47:14 hi pupnik Dec 09 09:47:28 flx_: No, it says '~ $' Dec 09 09:47:32 there was a list of available apps in extras-devel, but didn't bookmarked it. Where can i find it? Dec 09 10:02:29 oh, what happened there I wonder Dec 09 10:02:30 ah, work pc Dec 09 10:02:30 stskeeps: ok, i think everything's coming together in my mind at last. because nokia's deb source packages don't use patches during the build and just have them hardcoded, that's what's causing trouble? or are there other problems? Dec 09 10:02:30 Clone ;) Dec 09 10:02:30 X-Fade: nah, is me still, should have turned work pc off Dec 09 10:02:30 Anyone here know Philip Van Hoof ? Dec 09 10:02:30 X-Fade: could I manually upload a replacement binary package? Dec 09 10:02:30 mece: -> pvanhoof Dec 09 10:02:30 X-Fade: e.g. make sure the source builds, then replace it with an optimised version? Dec 09 10:02:32 pvanhoof? Dec 09 10:02:48 lardman|home: If you increase the epoch, yes. Dec 09 10:02:58 righty-o Dec 09 10:20:02 Lorthirk: Really glad too, thanks x100. Dec 09 10:20:03 woglinde : you can register to receive an event on new SMS? Dec 09 10:20:03 woglinde : kind of use of the proxy pattern? Dec 09 10:20:04 Lorthirk: running random executables from guys on IRC is a *good* idea - who knew?! Dec 09 10:20:04 andre___, around? Dec 09 10:20:04 :) Dec 09 10:20:04 johnx, aight? Dec 09 10:20:06 AdmiralSausage: dont worry, just run it as root and you are safe! Dec 09 10:20:11 I can reproduce the desktop wallpaper .desktop crash! Dec 09 10:20:23 johnx, which is bug number...? Dec 09 10:20:44 it's in my email. one sec Dec 09 10:21:08 bug 5866 Dec 09 10:21:09 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5866 malformed wallpaper collection Dec 09 10:24:29 johnx, crash reporter installed? feel free to add a comment to that report with exact steps... Dec 09 10:24:42 ersin: I'd be interested in the gtk->maemo-gtk patchset too Dec 09 10:25:01 yannj hm qwerty could answer this better than me Dec 09 10:25:09 AdmiralSausage: don't worry, i'll wait another 2 or 3 minutes before i get access to all your personal informations Dec 09 10:25:10 :D Dec 09 10:25:13 yannj hm search the maemo-dev ml-list Dec 09 10:25:16 ersin: is that on a git branch anywhere? Dec 09 10:25:18 there were some hints Dec 09 10:26:06 cm0901: You'll have to do it using minimal power or I'll notice you now :) Dec 09 10:26:31 AdmiralSausage: i'll try to :D Dec 09 10:28:38 andre__ loses a _ Dec 09 10:28:38 horray imagemagick builded at least Dec 09 10:29:16 lbt, unstable network. tomorrow will be even more fun as I won't have electricity around :-P Dec 09 10:29:40 andre__, I can do better. I'm attaching a .desktop anyone can use to crash their "hildon home screen" Dec 09 10:30:02 johnx, yeah, that's more fun for me too :-D Dec 09 10:30:11 it's fun for everyone :D Dec 09 10:30:35 and I think every .desktop file linked from n900wallpapers.com is a "winner" :D Dec 09 10:30:56 omg... I know now why nokia did not made video calls for n900 Dec 09 10:31:02 andre__: heh no electric irc that I want to see... Dec 09 10:31:21 anyone knows how usable mer is on n800 ? Dec 09 10:31:45 bilboed-pi: it boots and more or less works Dec 09 10:32:02 bilboed-pi: you have web browser, IM and can use them over wifi Dec 09 10:33:43 hrw, do you mean 0.16 or 0.17pre ? Dec 09 10:33:55 bilboed-pi: I tried 0.16pre on n810 Dec 09 10:34:21 ~curse nokia for h-a-m being still broken after 4 years of development Dec 09 10:34:23 May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, nokia for h-a-m being still broken after 4 years of development ! Dec 09 10:34:37 Updated bug 5866 Dec 09 10:34:39 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5866 malformed wallpaper collection Dec 09 10:34:46 thanks Dec 09 10:35:14 bilboed-pi, 0.17testingN on the N8x0 probably won't be very fun Dec 09 10:35:18 morning johnx Dec 09 10:35:23 mornin' woglinde Dec 09 10:41:58 ok, which repository keeps basic stuff like less, coreutils etc? Dec 09 10:42:32 sdk repos possibly Dec 09 10:42:46 for sure Dec 09 10:43:01 ok Dec 09 10:57:22 lbt_: are you interested in helping develop one? i have no idea how to set up a git branch or anything like that Dec 09 10:57:22 hrw, nah. but at least in my case the merge built into contacts was reasonable (though manual). it'd be a pain if you have a lot of contacts though Dec 09 10:57:22 johnx: I have ~400 contacts now Dec 09 10:57:23 yeah. that'd be a pain Dec 09 10:57:23 hrw: damn yo Dec 09 10:57:23 ersin: sure - we do a lot of that over in #mer Dec 09 10:57:28 ersin: 323 merged from s60 phone Dec 09 10:57:48 hrw: i'm not sure i know 400 people, period Dec 09 10:58:07 one thing mer does is try to look at fremantle as a downstream of another distro - so seperating out functional patches. Dec 09 10:58:51 doing it for gtk is a big job and complex code - are you up for that? Dec 09 10:59:07 lbt_: hells yeah =) that's what i've been working on Dec 09 10:59:22 Take a look at http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer/Build to start .... Dec 09 11:00:15 then move on to scan http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer/Build/UsingGitorious Dec 09 11:00:29 Anidel: would you like a pair of new woollen socks or mittens? :-> Dec 09 11:00:34 which is the full-on branching stuff explained as best I can Dec 09 11:01:09 also, we're looking to simplify that process for normal Mer usage :) Dec 09 11:01:13 uh wow Dec 09 11:01:14 lol Dec 09 11:01:39 yeah - I don't know what level you're working at? Dec 09 11:02:04 ersin, do you have experience with branching in another scm? Dec 09 11:02:05 clearly you need to have a fiddle with git if you've not done that... Dec 09 11:02:08 i should mention i'm kind of a noob hacker, i only just started working w/ open source stuff about a month ago, though i have a knack for diving right in, so a lot of the ancillary stuff like how to use git will take me a while to learn lol Dec 09 11:02:15 ah Dec 09 11:02:23 right ... this isn't a good start Dec 09 11:02:50 ersin, for now, just try and keep your patches separated into groups according to what feature they add Dec 09 11:02:55 at least, not for git Dec 09 11:03:14 the goal being to be able to apply one "feature" without the others Dec 09 11:03:21 ersin after some time you will love it Dec 09 11:03:22 ersin are you trying to create gtk -> maemo-gtk patches Dec 09 11:03:23 (except where one feature clearly depends on another) Dec 09 11:04:08 johnx: right now i'm just going through diffs between the c files of gtk2.10 vs. gtk2.18...no patchsets yet =) Dec 09 11:04:16 I'd suggest looking at gitk and playing with that Dec 09 11:04:22 woglinde: thanks for the encouragement =) i'm already a fan Dec 09 11:04:26 I find it helps visualise Dec 09 11:04:50 lbt_: gotcha Dec 09 11:04:51 and makes branch mgmt easy - and the ability to diff any two commits on a clicky-whim is brilliant Dec 09 11:05:33 is that what's special about git? Dec 09 11:05:37 hi Dec 09 11:05:59 er, i guess gitk Dec 09 11:06:44 well before i start any of this i have a bigger problem, namely that my girlfriend accidentally kicked my laptop off the bed and now my video chip is messed up, all kinds of artifacts everywhere Dec 09 11:07:04 :-D Dec 09 11:07:08 *cough* Dec 09 11:07:20 moving an xterm window into the corner somehow makes it just tolerable, but it's starting to straing Dec 09 11:07:25 myrtti: haha Dec 09 11:07:38 s/straing/strain Dec 09 11:07:39 so i dont get it what im doing wrong when im trying to add shortcut for script to open irssi Dec 09 11:34:36 come on holmes Dec 09 11:43:54 hmm does the n900 support 3G? Dec 09 11:43:54 yes Dec 09 11:43:54 I only see 3G in the status (however using the 3G APN) Dec 09 11:43:54 provider? Dec 09 11:43:54 Proximus belgium Dec 09 11:43:54 sejo: Should work. Dec 09 11:43:54 dunno why I get the 2G then.. Dec 09 11:43:54 I even see 3.5g at work :) Dec 09 11:43:54 sejo: No 3G reception? Dec 09 11:43:57 not at home though :( Dec 09 11:44:05 my e71 does have 3g here Dec 09 11:44:15 maybe switch the sim and check? Dec 09 11:45:35 i get 3.5g on my n900 in warsaw Dec 09 11:46:13 I get 3.5G if I hold it just right on the sofa. Dec 09 11:46:26 Mine switches between nothing > 2G > 3G and 3.5G at work Dec 09 11:46:26 sejo, some sims are locked to 2g Dec 09 11:47:16 LinuxCode: apparently this one shouldn't be Dec 09 11:47:37 ok switched the sim and still get 2G Dec 09 11:47:38 * LinuxCode doesnt do apparently Dec 09 11:47:50 go outside Dec 09 11:48:03 see if for some reason, it wont get proper reception Dec 09 11:48:14 maybe you need to change a setting ?!?! Dec 09 11:48:21 hmmm, i can ssh to localhost but not from the network, no ssh prompt Dec 09 11:48:23 but then I still havent got a N900 Dec 09 11:50:58 LinuxCode: switching sim from phone is all I need to get 3G on the E71 I have with both sim cards 3g Dec 09 11:51:06 on the n900 with both 2G Dec 09 11:51:38 could be a config setting Dec 09 11:51:47 but as I said, I dont have a N900 yet Dec 09 11:51:49 the wait for the ups guy with my package is dreadful :< Dec 09 11:51:51 so I am guessing Dec 09 11:52:14 found it, in settings--phone set mode from GSM to 3G Dec 09 11:52:17 w00t Dec 09 11:52:28 how can i enter weird character such as { ? Dec 09 11:52:37 sejo, educated guesses work sometimes Dec 09 11:52:42 ;-p Dec 09 11:52:48 lol indeed Dec 09 11:52:51 melmoth: sym key Dec 09 11:53:03 melmoth: press "fn" and "Sym/Ctrl" after that Dec 09 11:53:06 well after switching I knew it had no be a setting, and you confirming it Dec 09 11:53:18 thanks Dec 09 11:53:27 now, lets try to enter a long weird wpa key Dec 09 11:53:32 OT: using xchat on n900 - does it save log files? Dec 09 11:53:33 may be ssh wills works better on my lan :) Dec 09 11:54:04 Eightace: not by default Dec 09 11:54:12 frals: i hear ya Dec 09 11:54:42 jebba: any way to do it? Dec 09 11:54:46 now for the screencast to work and I'm pretty happy Dec 09 11:54:55 err, Eightace i take that back and change to i dont know. I do have a "scrollback" dir at least for this channel tha ti dont think i activated Dec 09 11:55:32 Eightace: probably: irc_logging = 1 in ~/.xchat2/xchat.conf Dec 09 11:55:58 Eightace: there are logs though already fyi: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/latest.log.html Dec 09 11:56:45 thanks I will get them online for now Dec 09 12:03:56 hmm.. Dec 09 12:04:10 yay! Dec 09 12:04:11 Subject: Forum Nokia Order Complete Confirmation Dec 09 12:04:16 nomis: grats Dec 09 12:04:24 ~curse microusb in n900 Dec 09 12:04:25 May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, microusb in n900 ! Dec 09 12:05:15 still no route to host. Dec 09 12:05:35 no ssh possible to n900. works ok on the n810 on the same network though Dec 09 12:05:59 melmoth: installed openssh or dropbear on n900? Dec 09 12:06:07 openssh Dec 09 12:06:31 is it normal that plugging CA-101 (microusb official nokia cable) results in "charging..." and then "charging error" if n900 move a bit Dec 09 12:06:34 ? Dec 09 12:06:38 hrw: blame the eu. Dec 09 12:07:00 hrw: didn't see that one myself Dec 09 12:07:02 X-Fade: and/or quality of microusb connector in n900 Dec 09 12:07:17 hrw: But no, that is not normal. I can hang my device by the cable, without problems. Dec 09 12:07:33 and how to force n900 into usb-storage mode? now it works as usb-net/acm combo Dec 09 12:07:33 yeah, no probs with microusb connector with me eighter Dec 09 12:07:43 hrw: it should ask when you plug in Dec 09 12:07:49 n900 will ask what mode when you plug it in Dec 09 12:08:09 there might be a setting to auto to a particular mode, but i though that was only on symbian and not on maemo Dec 09 12:08:29 thats what also manual says... but not happens Dec 09 12:09:53 hrw: it should. Dec 09 12:10:09 hrw, have you tried with other usb port on computer? Dec 09 12:10:27 windows sometimes doesn't do well with usb devices repeatedly connected and disconnected Dec 09 12:10:45 jysky: will have to (now it is 7port powered hub) Dec 09 12:11:17 rebooted both systems? Dec 09 12:11:24 ok, under desk port helped Dec 09 12:11:30 jysky: I do not reboot my linux box Dec 09 12:11:50 hi Dec 09 12:12:03 ah, it's not windows! well mine n900 worked swell with linux yesterday Dec 09 12:13:32 I've been searching on talk.maemo.org, but I can't find a way to connect to a Microsoft (pptp) VPN? even if it's complicated? Dec 09 12:13:36 * timeless_mbp sighs Dec 09 12:13:45 sorry, on the n900 Dec 09 12:13:45 * timeless_mbp wants to smack the person who runs maemo.org Dec 09 12:13:55 www.maemo.org uses an invalid security certificate. Dec 09 12:13:55 The certificate is only valid for maemo.org Dec 09 12:13:55 (Error code: ssl_error_bad_cert_domain) Dec 09 12:14:04 hmm. now to think of it.. i think that i might not have had that query of which mode to go on my windows, when i didn't have latest pc suite and not driver for n900. after i installed pc suite it started asking. but on opensuse machine it just worked like on mac os x Dec 09 12:14:59 timeless_mbp: www? who uses that? Dec 09 12:15:19 X-Fade: probably my browser when the maemo.org server doesn't answer Dec 09 12:15:21 dunno Dec 09 12:15:22 timeless_mbp: the big fun of SSL vs virtual domains Dec 09 12:15:37 timeless_mbp: We don't link to https://www at least? Dec 09 12:15:39 tbf: this was a solved problem 3 years ago Dec 09 12:15:48 X-Fade: not certain actually Dec 09 12:15:51 oh Dec 09 12:15:54 to https? no Dec 09 12:15:58 but www ? maybe Dec 09 12:16:05 timeless_mbp: sure? Dec 09 12:16:07 i probably added the s when http didn't work Dec 09 12:16:30 timeless_mbp: www redirects to maemo.org Dec 09 12:16:46 timeless_mbp: So login will never take you to https://www Dec 09 12:16:51 timeless_mbp: i am not aware that STARTTLS for HTTP got implemented Dec 09 12:16:52 which is a horrible mistake Dec 09 12:17:06 we should use www like the rest of the world Dec 09 12:17:14 so that cookies don't get shared unless asked Dec 09 12:17:26 and so that i can block spam from www and still get it from elsewhere Dec 09 12:17:28 www is so last century Dec 09 12:17:57 X-Fade: prefix should be w20 at least :-D Dec 09 12:18:04 weird,in order to log in the n900 with ssh, i have first to log ona remote box from the ssh with -R 7777:localhost:22 and then from this box, to ssh on localhost 7777 Dec 09 12:18:11 so i can have a connexion, but not directly. Dec 09 12:18:18 anyone having the same issue ? Dec 09 12:18:49 melmoth: No, I can login to my n900 directly. Dec 09 12:18:53 melmoth: did you just install ssh? Dec 09 12:19:01 because the postinst doesn't start the daemon Dec 09 12:19:02 melmoth: PSM Dec 09 12:19:15 although that wouldn't do it Dec 09 12:19:17 psm? Dec 09 12:19:47 i installed the virtual package, so i got client and server Dec 09 12:19:54 the only onther stuff i installed was homeip Dec 09 12:20:01 what is psm ? Dec 09 12:20:27 i can log in from the n900 to localhost too, so daemon is started Dec 09 12:20:36 ~wifi-psm Dec 09 12:20:37 [wifi-psm] http://wiki.maemo.org/Wifi_Power_Saving_Mode_(PSM) Dec 09 12:21:04 Ok, who is building glib for extras-devel? Dec 09 12:22:15 X-Fade: why? :) Dec 09 12:22:30 X-Fade: doesn't the builder tell you who uploaded it? Dec 09 12:22:39 timeless_mbp: thats it thanks ! Dec 09 12:22:43 lardman *g* Dec 09 12:22:47 not me Dec 09 12:22:48 We have a genius trying to get that in diablo extras-devel Dec 09 12:22:51 i m using free ISP wich is noted as having issue with psm Dec 09 12:22:54 lardman I wanted to ask the same Dec 09 12:22:55 ok, one things done :) Dec 09 12:23:26 'free isp'? Dec 09 12:23:39 French ISP Free.fr Freebox (Maemo #3481 and Free #2538) Dec 09 12:23:45 at the bottom of the psm wiki page Dec 09 12:24:13 woglinde: apparently it's just in the queue atm Dec 09 12:24:22 X-Fade: well ersin who was in here earlier was working on it, but i didn't have the impression he was using extras-devel for the purpose Dec 09 12:24:25 s/apparently/presumably Dec 09 12:24:30 ersin: ??? Dec 09 12:24:47 (who's not in here anymore) Dec 09 12:24:50 total w00tness got 2 gig dataplan from work on the maemo! Dec 09 12:24:52 w00t Dec 09 12:25:01 Stskeeps: yeah, it is him. Ok, what shall I do to stop him? Dec 09 12:25:12 X-Fade: kill the builder jobs and send him a mail? :P Dec 09 12:25:30 sejo: 'from work on maemo'? Dec 09 12:25:30 Ah he is uploading a lot more crap too. Dec 09 12:25:37 libpixman for instance. Dec 09 12:26:02 he was working on updating glib and gtk (+ maemo patches) for diablo, but it's a bit stupid way to do it if he's uploading it to extras :) Dec 09 12:26:16 so a slightly cluebat mail should help Dec 09 12:26:34 slonopotamus: on the n900 sorry Dec 09 12:26:48 well at least it will prove the point that enabling extras-devel is dangerous ;) Dec 09 12:26:51 X-Fade: so, worthwhile work, stupid method :) Dec 09 12:27:03 Stskeeps: yeah, indeed. Killed his access for now. Dec 09 12:27:07 Will send him a mail. Dec 09 12:27:23 lardman_ nope autobuilder should rejected packages that are in any other repo Dec 09 12:27:25 what's wrong with uploading gtk to extras? :) Dec 09 12:27:46 slonopotamus: will screw up subsequent builds horribly probably Dec 09 12:28:17 and it should be much work to make a mapping for x-fade if someone changes names Dec 09 12:28:42 what about woglinde's comment then? Dec 09 12:28:49 how can it even be uploaded? Dec 09 12:29:03 heh... what you need is a build system where each user has their own area.... Dec 09 12:29:08 It doesn't do any checking for diablo. Dec 09 12:29:15 I wonder where we can find one of them? Dec 09 12:29:24 We have a check in place for fremantle, but not diablo. Dec 09 12:29:29 ah I see Dec 09 12:30:35 was the "N810 GPS crap" bug fixed in fremantle btw? Dec 09 12:31:23 Stskeeps: ROFL Dec 09 12:33:34 ar, no, 'WONTFIX' Dec 09 12:33:35 :P Dec 09 12:34:03 GPS now works well, _if_ you have a data connection available. Dec 09 12:34:23 and OVI maps is a joke Dec 09 12:34:23 Otherwise it is kind of impossible Dec 09 12:34:25 Stskeeps: basically if machine!=n900 then close as wontfix Dec 09 12:34:35 X-Fade: what i worry about is if it caches SUPL data at all Dec 09 12:35:04 * lbt_ suggests the GPS problem is a conspiracy with carriers to sell data plans Dec 09 12:35:08 Stskeeps: the chap who gave the talk about location stuff at the summit said it does Dec 09 12:35:16 though I don't believe him Dec 09 12:35:16 lardman_: mmk Dec 09 12:35:16 maybe I should post that on tmo? Dec 09 12:36:13 lbt_: you mean no-one's come up with that one already!? Dec 09 12:36:20 X-Fade, did thomasvs/homeasvs 's erlang build complete on fremantle autobuilder? Dec 09 12:36:39 hmm Dec 09 12:36:58 tuxpaint expects a splash image un /usr/share Dec 09 12:37:15 tigert: so? Dec 09 12:37:31 it crashes Dec 09 12:37:43 since the package is optified Dec 09 12:37:44 sounds like a maemo app Dec 09 12:37:59 zaheerm, looks like it's still there Dec 09 12:38:17 tigert: sounds like someone did a bad job packaging Dec 09 12:38:17 haha, braek is awesome :) Dec 09 12:38:26 homeasvs, how long did your n900 take building it? Dec 09 12:38:38 zaheerm, 9 hours I think Dec 09 12:39:20 Oh, the Tentacled One! What have I started with that GPS bug... Dec 09 12:39:55 RST38h: a repeat of https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2878 Dec 09 12:39:56 Bug 2878: Very poor satellite acquisition with internal GPS Dec 09 12:40:16 http://www.matkapuhelininfo.com/keskustelu/showpost.php?p=1058184286&postcount=945 so this should add a shorcut to menu where to add shorcuts to desktop. But i just dont get it why it wont Dec 09 12:42:48 Stskeeps: No Dec 09 12:43:08 Stskeeps: In n900, it is not "very poor". It is "nonexistant" Dec 09 12:43:23 Stskeeps: I do not know a single person who has managed to get a lock while offline Dec 09 12:43:43 i did once Dec 09 12:43:47 RST38h: location-test-gui(sp) should help diagnose it a little better Dec 09 12:43:54 but i guess that was the 1:10000 chance Dec 09 12:44:10 Sts: where to get it? Dec 09 12:44:15 RST38h: e-d Dec 09 12:44:20 (afaik) Dec 09 12:44:21 at my garden Dec 09 12:44:23 open space Dec 09 12:44:31 no wirless or cellular service there Dec 09 12:44:37 i was highly suprised Dec 09 12:45:34 Sts: ack Dec 09 12:48:13 RST38h: using that we can probably get fact on some of the issues Dec 09 12:52:12 Sts: What I wonder about though is why WE should be debugging this Dec 09 12:52:20 Sts: blindly too Dec 09 12:52:29 andre__, is there an internal bug report for https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5337 ? Dec 09 12:52:31 Bug 5337: Can't get GPS lock without network connection Dec 09 12:52:42 zaheerm: there's one listed as an alias Dec 09 12:52:48 maps still breaks immediately when i leave my wlan Dec 09 12:52:54 RST38h: cos "let nokia do it" doesn't always work Dec 09 12:52:55 :P Dec 09 12:52:57 Stskeeps, wow i'm blind Dec 09 12:53:10 Hello! I would like to know how to send a simple message through a bluetooth serial port. Could anybody help me? Dec 09 12:53:11 takku: Actually, if you read that post with thought, it says that it will add an option to create a new shortcut for irssi under the "Create a new shortcut menu" ..so, if you don't see the whole "add new shortcut" -menu that's probably your problem.. Just guessing, as I dont have the device in front of me. Dec 09 12:53:23 so second question is judging by all the comments on that bug, it should be reopened...... Dec 09 12:53:41 filipecalegario: open the serial device with fopen, write Dec 09 12:53:46 s/question/statement/ Dec 09 12:53:47 zaheerm meant: so second statement is judging by all the comments on that bug, it should be reopened...... Dec 09 12:53:47 Sts: It is not even a request for enhancement though Dec 09 12:53:49 ? Dec 09 12:53:54 Sts: GPS is just plain broken Dec 09 12:54:13 RST38h: well obviously not totally since AGPS works Dec 09 12:54:39 Sts:" GPS does not though -> broken Dec 09 12:54:41 i use an alias for screened irssi in xterm Dec 09 12:54:54 stskeeps, is there a way for me to preload the map data for my destination? Dec 09 12:55:06 pupnik: there was a talk thread on this Dec 09 12:55:12 there must be a way to use a map like nIqP Dec 09 12:55:18 ahh Dec 09 12:55:20 pupnik: Jaffa had a blog post about using the Windows tool to download it Dec 09 12:55:26 RST38h: i don't like the issue either but i think it's good to look at alternative ways for working around it Dec 09 12:55:29 ty! Dec 09 12:56:11 pupnik: Yeah, you can download zip files with maps. Worked fine for my trip to australia. Dec 09 12:56:24 Is there an irc app with gui for n900 available yet? Dec 09 12:56:25 pupnik: Well, the maps worked. The app itself.... Dec 09 12:56:30 mthmob: xchat Dec 09 12:56:41 mthmob, which is in devel Dec 09 12:56:47 X-Fade: I have to copy maps from my e66 phone Dec 09 12:57:02 ahh ok, thx. Dec 09 12:57:03 Sts: Not use internal GPS? :) Dec 09 12:57:19 takku: did u get it to work? Dec 09 12:57:35 using that same solution myself. Dec 09 12:57:38 Laiska: yes. i can get to that menu where u can add shorcuts to desktop. but i wont find that one from there Dec 09 12:57:48 RST38h: no, ability to pre-cache, but we already agree on this Dec 09 12:58:01 Stskeeps: yeah Dec 09 12:58:02 mthhob scrolling in xchat is pure pain Dec 09 12:58:04 RST38h: if there's a sane API made for this, it could even be a daemon / extras app Dec 09 12:58:10 Stskeeps: if we know the cached data format of course Dec 09 12:58:24 Stskeeps: The Diablo AGPS app was in Extras too Dec 09 12:58:39 gadgetoid> so its a scrollbar in the side? Dec 09 12:58:39 RST38h: Nope Dec 09 12:58:40 RST38h: like "Maemo Traveller" where it precaches stuff for the area your airport is in Dec 09 12:58:52 RST38h: gadgeteer Dec 09 12:59:06 RST38h: we probably won't be allowed to know the format, but an api that would allow us to send SUPL messages would work Dec 09 12:59:10 takku: hmm i didnt notice the shortcut part earlier actually Dec 09 12:59:17 pre-caches maps, AGPS info for the next 7 days Dec 09 12:59:23 RST38h: Or tableteer. whatever. Dec 09 12:59:23 red: nope, i dunno what im doing wrong did u got it? Dec 09 12:59:24 yes mthmob Dec 09 12:59:29 i'd personally use that app Dec 09 12:59:42 X-Fade: Ah, ok...Where is gadgeteer now btw? Dec 09 12:59:52 or tableteer...is it still around? Dec 09 12:59:58 RST38h: Basically that is Nokia apps on N900 Dec 09 12:59:58 takku: Rebooting the device makes no difference either? Dec 09 13:00:06 Aha Dec 09 13:00:32 Laiska: nope Dec 09 13:00:33 * RST38h rejoices at receiving "order processed" email from DDP. No DHL tracking number though. Dec 09 13:00:41 i only did the terminal alias part Dec 09 13:00:49 fast enough for me Dec 09 13:00:58 RST38h: :) Dec 09 13:01:40 con would be better i guess but it seemed like a hazzle Dec 09 13:02:14 damn thats the last thing for me to setup this phone Dec 09 13:02:36 everything else is fine except that Dec 09 13:03:12 i didnt find any decent way for msn Dec 09 13:03:13 lardman_: thanks for the idea, but is there any simple terminal command that does it already? Dec 09 13:03:45 butterfly is buggy, cant msg online contacts via contact view Dec 09 13:03:52 red: hehe bitlbee inside irssi :) Dec 09 13:03:58 filipecalegario: probably not, you also need to connect to the BT device and setup the serial port iirc Dec 09 13:04:10 the im address is only visible for offliners Dec 09 13:04:22 bitlbee is gimped :( Dec 09 13:04:54 no sound alarm, ppl that i dont have added appear only in the spammy status to Dec 09 13:05:15 lardman_: thanks! I will try with fopen then. Dec 09 13:05:42 and too many random dc and cant msg offliners or ppl appearing as offline even when they msg u Dec 09 13:08:44 so Dec 09 13:08:50 im terrifed to get the back cover off my n900 Dec 09 13:09:08 me 2 Dec 09 13:09:17 i tought about adding a 16 gig microsd Dec 09 13:09:26 but i cant remember how to take the back cover off Dec 09 13:09:30 frals, I think it feels quite nice. Seems much less breaking prone than the N95 back cover imo. Dec 09 13:09:34 frals: Use a creditcard on the side. Dec 09 13:10:05 ah good one, cheers Dec 09 13:10:16 tell me how it went Dec 09 13:10:19 works quite well Dec 09 13:10:22 i am curious if i should do it Dec 09 13:10:28 my experience is that the back cover plastic will bend nicely over time, so it becomes quite easy to open the cover after awhile Dec 09 13:10:57 First few times the sound is scary though ;) Dec 09 13:11:02 naxxatoe: it's easy - slide the switch - use the fingernail grab to pop the cover off at the back - slide your nail up the gap left towards the top of the phone, repeat on the other side Dec 09 13:11:42 SpeedEvil: Switch? Dec 09 13:12:01 not too happy about ups manging to wreck the box it came in (not wreck but its a decent dent in it.. thank god the device is unhurt!) Dec 09 13:12:09 what switch? Dec 09 13:12:49 is there a way to be sure the n900 will never ever try to use 3G while still accept receiving calls ? Dec 09 13:12:54 off line mode makes me miss call Dec 09 13:12:55 good lord, you don't know about the switch! Dec 09 13:13:17 melmoth: in internet settings tell it to not use it Dec 09 13:13:21 melmoth: Just don't set it to autoconnect. Dec 09 13:13:32 melmoth: And it will ask for roaming. Dec 09 13:13:41 hmm, i rummaged in there without finding such option. I ll try again Dec 09 13:13:54 X-Fade: the battery catch switch - just next to the headphone port Dec 09 13:14:13 Settings > Internet Connections > Connect Automatically Dec 09 13:14:15 SpeedEvil: lol, that is just an electrical switch to send a signal. Dec 09 13:14:21 argh Dec 09 13:14:27 I assumed it had some mechanical signal Dec 09 13:14:40 that allows you to lock/unlock the device Dec 09 13:14:44 whoever doesn't have an n900 yet, look away now: http://blog.barisione.org/2009-12/early-christmas/ Dec 09 13:14:59 zaheerm: ow Dec 09 13:14:59 ok, "always ask". thanks :) Dec 09 13:15:18 zaheerm: lol ;) Dec 09 13:15:19 zaheerm, lol. Dec 09 13:15:23 zaheerm: :D Dec 09 13:15:23 nice Dec 09 13:15:25 lardman: that also removes one of my bugbears about the locking. Dec 09 13:15:27 that looks a bit like the summit piles Dec 09 13:15:28 :) Dec 09 13:15:30 lardmanwhich is nice Dec 09 13:16:58 what can we do to put pressure on the nokia developers to fix the gps problem? recommend people not to buy the n900 because of it? Dec 09 13:17:35 its WONTFIX, so a serious bugger Dec 09 13:17:38 zaheerm: we actually put them out of stock in the UK for a few days *whistles* Dec 09 13:17:43 xorAxAx: i find an axe-handle across the neck works well. Dec 09 13:17:52 Hi people, I'm having some problems with a n810... it turns off after 3 seconds of pressing the power button... Dec 09 13:17:58 I already tried a hard reset... Dec 09 13:17:59 battery? Dec 09 13:18:07 xorAxAx: be vocal? Dec 09 13:18:07 :P Dec 09 13:18:07 xorAxAx, no, threats don't work well. :) Dec 09 13:18:08 Robot101, lol shows the lack of availability i guess, you guys are what around 75 people? Dec 09 13:18:09 don't press the power button? Dec 09 13:18:22 Stskeeps: i cannot sing Dec 09 13:18:41 xorAxAx: youtube video rap about the issue? Dec 09 13:18:42 xorAxAx, take the device back and say you want it fixed Dec 09 13:18:43 xorAxAx: get https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5337 reopened :) Dec 09 13:18:44 Bug 5337: Can't get GPS lock without network connection Dec 09 13:18:52 vote! Dec 09 13:18:53 if they say it is not broken, go to trading standards Dec 09 13:18:54 so our channels have forked? Dec 09 13:19:01 pupnik: i did so already Dec 09 13:19:05 LinuxCode: don't be silly Dec 09 13:19:16 lardman_, do I look like I am being silly ? Dec 09 13:19:18 indeed, WTO! Dec 09 13:19:21 timeless_mbp: not forked but established seperate rooms for concentrated discussion Dec 09 13:19:25 lardman_, GPS in the N810 never worked right Dec 09 13:19:30 threads? Dec 09 13:19:38 s/threads/threaded/ Dec 09 13:19:38 LinuxCode: it doesn't specifically say it will work without a network Dec 09 13:19:38 timeless_mbp meant: threaded? Dec 09 13:19:39 can we sue nokia for such a bad gps? Dec 09 13:19:45 zaheerm: yeah we ordered 69 and they had around 100 on friday Dec 09 13:19:53 how can i set a POI in nOPP maps:: Dec 09 13:19:53 Robot101: who? Dec 09 13:19:53 xorAxAx: DoS them wie new and new bug reports of the same issue :) Dec 09 13:19:59 LinuxCode: I know about the n810, I'm just talking about Trading Standards Dec 09 13:20:03 xorAxAx, if you paid for a device, that does not work right, you have consumer rights Dec 09 13:20:05 how can i set a POI in n900 maps? Dec 09 13:20:11 anyone here near the Chicago or New York flagship stores? Dec 09 13:20:12 wouldn't the bug be simple to test by putting the device into offline mode? Dec 09 13:20:18 i need someone to take a field trip to them Dec 09 13:20:23 cehteh: hehe, with a markov chain text generator and a botnet :) Dec 09 13:20:29 (London store too) Dec 09 13:20:32 but indeed, n810 never got lock as fast as my standalone gps did Dec 09 13:20:33 Robot101, nokia's online shop or the retail stores? Dec 09 13:20:40 thought that it just had bad sensitivity Dec 09 13:21:07 but n900 takes lock almost immediately in places where my normal gps wouldn't lock :-o. I suppose AGPS help there quite a bit, though. Dec 09 13:21:21 n900 gps does not exist as a feature for me at this time Dec 09 13:21:33 pupnik: ? Dec 09 13:21:36 lardman_, sales of goods act is quite clear Dec 09 13:21:45 hmm, if there is a conspiracy with the data plan providers, we could also start an antitrust case, right? Dec 09 13:21:50 fix or refund Dec 09 13:21:56 LinuxCode, does it not advertise agps rather than gps :) Dec 09 13:22:00 LinuxCode: which is why I said to you that it never claimed to work with out a network Dec 09 13:22:01 do we have lawyers here? :) Dec 09 13:22:17 xorAxAx: find a spot in the specification where it says GPS without AGPS or that GPS is possible without sim card usage Dec 09 13:22:20 :P Dec 09 13:22:24 xorAxAx: steer clear of litigation if at all avoidable Dec 09 13:22:32 nice stskeeps Dec 09 13:22:44 lardman_: why? :) Dec 09 13:22:47 Stskeeps: thanks Dec 09 13:22:57 xorAxAx: it's expensive and wastes lots of time Dec 09 13:23:04 that is honest. Dec 09 13:23:07 zaheerm: Nokia direct Dec 09 13:23:08 bbl Dec 09 13:23:09 personally, I'd prefer in almost all cases to get on with life Dec 09 13:23:12 so lets start with bad reputation :) Dec 09 13:23:21 "the n900 is worse than the nokia online shop" Dec 09 13:23:27 unpossible Dec 09 13:23:29 zaheerm: they said every other call was about the N900 Dec 09 13:23:37 and had much more interest than the N97 Dec 09 13:23:38 :) Dec 09 13:23:47 xorAxAx, jumping to suing is not productive. Dec 09 13:23:52 Robot101, the rest of their phones seem to be sold by people other than nokia however Dec 09 13:24:14 Robot101, like the operators, but yah i'm not surprised if it outsells the n97 Dec 09 13:24:55 xorAxAx, the people at Maemo Devices are reasonable folks. Think about how you reacted if instead of having somebody approach you with an issue then went off to start litigation. Dec 09 13:24:57 Iis openarena stable and useable? Dec 09 13:25:08 xorAxAx, not likely to drive up your desire to work with them, is it? Dec 09 13:25:12 xorAxAx: in any case you would never win Dec 09 13:25:24 lardman_: just a matter of the right lawyer :) Dec 09 13:25:36 no not really, the right amount of money Dec 09 13:25:42 also that Dec 09 13:25:53 mainly that I would think Dec 09 13:25:57 anyway, back to useful work Dec 09 13:26:17 like a SUPL feeding api so we can actually feed the GPS some data of our own Dec 09 13:26:32 lardman_, you sniffing network traffic? Dec 09 13:26:48 no, why's that? Dec 09 13:26:51 has anyone worked out where it stores the GPS state? Dec 09 13:27:18 lardman_: it's SSL, ltrace, i guess Dec 09 13:27:49 hmm. in the bug comments quim says he's going outside to test the gps. hope he finds his way back :) Dec 09 13:28:00 https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3833 Dec 09 13:28:02 Bug 3833: Request for information to allow hooking into A-GPS location framework Dec 09 13:28:07 lardman_: still relevant i guess Dec 09 13:28:18 fnordianslip: lol Dec 09 13:28:35 maybe he has a data plan Dec 09 13:28:41 I know we could insert SUPL data, but I would like an api so we could provide e.g. ephemeris data if we're offline Dec 09 13:28:44 cheats Dec 09 13:31:48 anyone happen to know about homo/heterodyning lockin systems? Dec 09 13:31:51 i thought a gps rx got ephemeris data from the sats themselves Dec 09 13:32:05 fnordianslip: yes, it should do that too Dec 09 13:32:15 fnordianslip: yes, but it can be pre-loaded so it doens't need to wait so long to download the infp Dec 09 13:32:21 fnordianslip: it should take no more than 60s to download or so. Dec 09 13:32:26 fnordianslip: in a good signal area. Dec 09 13:32:37 I thought 60s was the almanac? Dec 09 13:32:47 wasn't there a 12min cycle in there somewhere? Dec 09 13:32:51 indeed. but it doesn't seem to do it, does it. Dec 09 13:32:53 lardman: no - the almanac is broadcast on a 12.5 min cycle. Dec 09 13:32:58 ah ok Dec 09 13:33:10 lardman: the ephemeris is 30s cycle - but you need a complete cycle Dec 09 13:33:12 i though abt 15 mins to get almanac, so sounds right Dec 09 13:33:22 thought, even Dec 09 13:33:34 I wonder if the almanac info is scrubbed from our chipset, even though it should last a long time Dec 09 13:33:36 lardman: and the initial lock to any satellite will take a few s, so that's a few seconds plus a random place in the 30s cycle Dec 09 13:33:43 lardman: me too Dec 09 13:33:44 SpeedEvil: yep Dec 09 13:34:54 /etc/email-addresses or something ? Dec 09 13:34:54 oups Dec 09 13:35:12 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=417816 Dec 09 13:35:13 Ehehe Dec 09 13:35:38 * fnordianslip fondly remembers hanging wires out of planes in an effort to get dgps correction data from lighthouses Dec 09 13:35:44 lol Dec 09 13:36:28 i lost a 3/8" spanner that way, somewhere over bournemouth Dec 09 13:36:33 konttori_work_no, Ping Dec 09 13:36:49 fnordianslip: glad I don't live there Dec 09 13:37:00 me too Dec 09 13:37:12 what were you doing with a spanner in-flight? Dec 09 13:37:50 and who got hit by it? Dec 09 13:37:51 :P Dec 09 13:37:52 opening up the plane probably Dec 09 13:37:56 it was tied to the end of the wire to stop it flapping around so much. was being the operative word. when i pulled the wire in, the spanner was gone Dec 09 13:38:07 hmm Dec 09 13:38:11 indeed Dec 09 13:38:13 what were you flying? Dec 09 13:38:14 has someone made a maemo port of gnu nano editor yet? :) Dec 09 13:38:25 cessna 406 Dec 09 13:38:58 and you let a spanner clonk around out the back?! Dec 09 13:39:00 nano works straight up Dec 09 13:39:05 I´m starting to thing that only 15 people ready planet.maemo.org lol thats the average number of votes either up or down that posts get :) Dec 09 13:39:09 no port required Dec 09 13:39:26 there was much more then just a spanner on a wire hanging out the back Dec 09 13:39:40 fnordianslip: ah ok Dec 09 13:40:03 Jagoo: nano port exists but it coredumps on ^W Dec 09 13:40:15 (AGAIN I must add) Dec 09 13:40:18 and we flew at 2ft above the sea near whitley bay Dec 09 13:40:32 hmm Dec 09 13:40:34 I trust it was flat calm Dec 09 13:40:37 RST38h: W means write, it wrote something with your written text in it, Dec 09 13:40:38 ish Dec 09 13:40:41 i just wget nano Dec 09 13:40:45 isnt that enought? :) Dec 09 13:40:52 and it worked without any changes Dec 09 13:40:54 fnordianslip: why? Dec 09 13:40:58 using n900 Dec 09 13:41:04 xorAxAx: ^W means Search Dec 09 13:41:04 damned pilot was mad Dec 09 13:41:09 RST38h: oh Dec 09 13:41:15 how unintuitive Dec 09 13:41:16 apt-get i mean ffs Dec 09 13:41:21 fnordianslip: ah ok, not part of the job then Dec 09 13:41:26 ish Dec 09 13:41:29 xorAxAx: Not liking it? Use vi instead. Dec 09 13:41:33 after playing around with a retail N900 at work I placed an order for one :) Dec 09 13:41:43 RST38h: i plan to, yeah Dec 09 13:41:44 now reading up on what kind of apps there are Dec 09 13:41:50 good pick Dec 09 13:42:03 he wanted to look for topless sunbathers on the beach, and we agreed on 15ft Dec 09 13:42:11 not that many apps yet, im an ex iphone user Dec 09 13:42:13 fnordianslip: lol Dec 09 13:42:22 but still loving the device Dec 09 13:42:34 *all you need is VI, vi* Dec 09 13:42:45 *vi is all you need* Dec 09 13:42:53 even the beatles knew vi! Dec 09 13:42:56 the main sell for me (switching from a N95 8gb) is the qwerty kbd and a browser thats actually fast Dec 09 13:42:58 took some fiddling to get root priviledges and msn is a bit bbuggy Dec 09 13:43:32 sejo: now sing it :) Dec 09 13:43:38 keyboard is ok i guess. still a bit small for my taste Dec 09 13:44:03 liked 9300@keyb Dec 09 13:44:29 I like n900 better then iphones and now better then n810 Dec 09 13:44:35 AndrewBlack: :) Dec 09 13:44:44 AndrewBlack: then you didnt try gps with a data plan :) Dec 09 13:44:53 +out Dec 09 13:45:02 xorAxAx, I did worked fine Dec 09 13:45:15 you got a fix? Dec 09 13:45:26 without internet connection? Dec 09 13:45:48 ahh I though you said with data plan lol Dec 09 13:46:04 dont know I havn't tried it with out data on Dec 09 13:46:06 sell your n900 and buy a pre Dec 09 13:46:09 xorAxAx: no john would resurrect to kick my arse! Dec 09 13:46:31 AndrewBlack: just as a means to protest Dec 09 13:46:52 why no have a data plan only $10 a month Dec 09 13:47:05 does it work internationally as well? Dec 09 13:47:22 nope you have to move to the US Dec 09 13:47:39 but its worth it :) Dec 09 13:47:46 Is Mer in need of some custom icons? Dec 09 13:47:49 ah, US. i meant roaming. but americans probably have less vacation in non-home countries than europeans Dec 09 13:48:04 joppu_: possibly - wazd has some degree of overview Dec 09 13:48:11 I have been working on something called "freemanle icons" Dec 09 13:48:15 imagine yourself doing holidays in mexico, AndrewBlack Dec 09 13:48:25 no gps fix, lost! Dec 09 13:48:25 joppu_: mm? Dec 09 13:48:31 joppu_: we have a freemantle-icons set too ;) Dec 09 13:48:40 I always get prepaid sim cards when I leave country Dec 09 13:48:47 based on Oxygen Dec 09 13:48:50 haha, I think I stole that name from there :D Dec 09 13:49:15 AndrewBlack: hmm Dec 09 13:49:29 no solidarity? :-/ Dec 09 13:49:44 http://www.flickr.com/photos/hrwandil/4171053791/ Dec 09 13:49:52 joppu_, can you do me a favor? Dec 09 13:49:53 xorAxAx: we'll see what quim says when he reemerges from the wilderness after being lost with his gps Dec 09 13:49:57 :P Dec 09 13:50:13 sample: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/805039/maemo/folder_document_bold.svg Dec 09 13:50:15 Sts: I suggest Ari Jaaksi himself does that Dec 09 13:50:28 hrw, DDP? Dec 09 13:50:39 Sts: Will be way way more effective Dec 09 13:50:40 RST38h: i suggest nokians get stripped of free roaming aboard for testing the N900 :P Dec 09 13:50:50 GeneralAntilles: yes Dec 09 13:50:51 Stskeeps, amen! Dec 09 13:50:53 abroad Dec 09 13:51:12 offroad Dec 09 13:51:15 Stskeeps, Quim wanted to use Twitter for organizing after-hours meetups in BCN. Dec 09 13:51:16 Sts: That will also solve us the offline map download problem Dec 09 13:51:20 hrw, cool. Dec 09 13:51:24 I wonder when fanoush'll get his. Dec 09 13:51:31 GeneralAntilles: so do I Dec 09 13:51:42 hrw: So, are you liking your N900 so far? Dec 09 13:52:00 RST38h: n900 like n900... I like the power of omap3 Dec 09 13:52:09 n900 is too thick Dec 09 13:52:20 hrw has sertainly been touching the screen a lot :p Dec 09 13:52:27 * RST38h smiles noticing how similar Polish idioms are to Russian Dec 09 13:52:31 it reminds HTC Tytn-II which was few years old Dec 09 13:52:42 RST38h: ;D Dec 09 13:52:46 anyone on linux with Theme Maker 1.2.5+ want to build a theme for me so I don have to wait til I get home? Dec 09 13:52:50 Yea, or HTC Diamond Pro Dec 09 13:52:53 hm htc will ship 8 new phones in fist half of 2010 Dec 09 13:52:59 The beefy one with the keyboard Dec 09 13:53:00 mostly android Dec 09 13:53:07 RST38h: never saw diamond newer then first one Dec 09 13:53:24 By the way, anyone know if they have any spare part for the N900 in their... repair facilities? I sent mine in for repairs and they promised it'd be complete in 5-10 days. Dec 09 13:53:35 *spare parts Dec 09 13:53:51 hrw: http://www.baekdal.com/future/Mobile/HTC-touch-diamond-pro-2/ Dec 09 13:54:03 hrw: Notice how similar it is (sans WinCE of course) Dec 09 13:54:05 joppu_: what was your issue btw? Dec 09 13:55:13 Stskeeps: screen failure Dec 09 13:55:14 RST38h: http://www.phonearena.com/htmls/Nokia-N900-phone-size-compare-pc_4008.html is nicer Dec 09 13:55:25 joppu_: ah Dec 09 13:55:31 yea, guess so Dec 09 13:55:55 joppu_: did you do anyting to it? Dec 09 13:56:12 lardman: so, i'm told by a birdie @ nokia that you can setup a bluetooth gps daemon on another computer Dec 09 13:56:17 specifically gpsfeed+ Dec 09 13:56:27 RST38h: and I use nokia e66 now so going to n900 is ;( Dec 09 13:56:30 and use it to lie to your n900 (select that as your gps source) Dec 09 13:56:36 timeless: well - it's actually in the location menu in settings Dec 09 13:56:42 RST38h: need to buy new case for it for example Dec 09 13:56:48 hrw: I already know N900 is exactly the size of iPhone, just thicker though =) Dec 09 13:56:50 timeless: oh - no - the other way round Dec 09 13:57:09 SpeedEvil: 2 hours on after unboxing, installed a few apps (ssh and hermes) locked the screen, unlocked it and bam, screen is pitch black with backlight still on Dec 09 13:57:22 joppu_: :/ Dec 09 13:57:29 14:56:36 -!- Irssi: New peak in #maemo@freenode : 492 Dec 09 13:57:40 Reflash didn't do anything Dec 09 13:57:48 joppu_: removed battery? Dec 09 13:58:39 X-Fade: For 2 hours Dec 09 13:59:05 joppu_: That should have been more than enough :( Dec 09 13:59:30 i wonder how winter season and impatience of users contributes to n900 hardware faults Dec 09 13:59:36 and drool Dec 09 13:59:40 god im in love with this device Dec 09 13:59:41 on the other hand: it's a phone, not a hard disk Dec 09 13:59:57 Jagoo: =) re fast browser Dec 09 14:00:41 Stskeeps: having encountered a non free phone bill Dec 09 14:00:50 i should note that it isn't technically free roaming abroad Dec 09 14:00:54 I really suspect a serious lack of quality control Dec 09 14:00:58 "It Dec 09 14:00:58 may WORKSFORYOU, but it certainly doesn't work on mine, and it's going back Dec 09 14:00:58 under warranty if this isn't fixed in the next update." Dec 09 14:00:58 just nearly free roaming w/in the civilized world Dec 09 14:00:59 timeless_mbp: Any idea why I sometimes only get the checkered background when going back through the graphical history thingy? Dec 09 14:00:59 +1 Dec 09 14:01:04 and that only applies to europeans Dec 09 14:01:08 yes it needs Dec 09 14:01:19 The failure rates are almost as bad as the xbox360 :P Dec 09 14:01:24 timeless_mbp: I then need to switch between apps a bit to get it redrawn? Dec 09 14:01:25 SpeedEvil: eh? Dec 09 14:01:25 hi, sorry to ask again, but is there any way to get a pptp VPN working on the N900 atm? I can see a thread on talk.maemo.org, but it appears to be saying that the kernel that ships with the unit doesn't have pptp enabled. There's another page talking about the n800, but nothing I can find for the n900 Dec 09 14:01:35 timeless; eh? Dec 09 14:01:44 X-Fade: can you explain in more detail? Dec 09 14:01:45 timeless_mbp: SpeedEvil eh? Dec 09 14:01:50 timeless: oh Dec 09 14:01:52 SpeedEvil: what other way around? Dec 09 14:02:00 bobbyd i'm using pptp on my n800 Dec 09 14:02:10 timeless_mbp: browse page, click through, swipe from right, click on previous page. Dec 09 14:02:20 ok Dec 09 14:02:20 timeless: I misarsed your comment to refer to using an external bluetooth GPS with the n900 - which I've seen as an option in settings - though not actually tried. Dec 09 14:02:34 timeless_mbp: Previous page then only shows the checkered pattern. Dec 09 14:02:34 i had to built a custom kernel for mppe encryption support and installed pptp-linux Dec 09 14:02:41 SpeedEvil: that's what i'm talking about Dec 09 14:02:45 till-: ok, do you know of any solution for the n900, or was that just information? Dec 09 14:02:48 timeless: oh Dec 09 14:02:50 timeless_mbp: Happens quite a lot with a few browser windows open. Dec 09 14:03:03 i don't own a n900 Dec 09 14:03:04 i think in order to actually run gpsfeed+ on host and make it serve your n900 will probably require an interesting hack Dec 09 14:03:13 host=n900 in that Dec 09 14:03:30 X-Fade: so.. confused Dec 09 14:03:36 but if the configuration is similar you may need a new kernel for the encryption Dec 09 14:03:44 you get a proper preview of the page when you are in the back history list, right? Dec 09 14:03:48 if your vpn uses mppe Dec 09 14:03:49 I can live with all the other stuff that the n900 doesn't do, but not being apbe to VPN is a killer for me :/ Dec 09 14:03:53 timeless: I'm proibably being slow - but why would you want to pretedn youre n900 is connected to a bluetooth gps that is really the internal n900 gps Dec 09 14:03:54 it's just the checkerboard when you click on the page Dec 09 14:04:11 timeless_mbp: Yes. Dec 09 14:04:14 SpeedEvil: someone was talking about wanting to send random bits to the supl server Dec 09 14:04:20 not sure what they wanted to do or why Dec 09 14:04:21 timeless_mbp: And it doesn't redraw. Dec 09 14:04:22 timeless: ah Dec 09 14:04:33 i know i want to be able to take a picture of an island and claim i'm in tahiti Dec 09 14:04:40 because i need to test the geotagging Dec 09 14:04:40 timeless_mbp: we want to cache SUPL data for getting GPS fixes while abroad and without data roaming Dec 09 14:04:44 and nokia won't pay for my flight Dec 09 14:04:56 ok Dec 09 14:05:04 bobbyd, well, if it consolates you at all, my openvpn-based vpn is working great! ;) Dec 09 14:05:07 well, roughly, what i'm suggesting is how you'd do it Dec 09 14:05:08 timeless: I have doubts that caching data for more than some hours is going to help Dec 09 14:05:12 err Dec 09 14:05:15 Stskeeps: Dec 09 14:05:21 SpeedEvil: *shrug*, "not my problem" Dec 09 14:05:22 bobbyd, flux: and vpnc seems to be available as well Dec 09 14:05:34 * SpeedEvil notes that he has a horrible throat infection, and is probably not tracking very well. Dec 09 14:05:43 X-Fade: so... Dec 09 14:05:43 SpeedEvil: i would gladly use 2gb of data if that helped anything. Dec 09 14:05:50 btw - what kind of #$^##@$#!@ wrote maemo5 'so called email application'? Dec 09 14:05:57 about the checkerboard (and this really needs to be a blog entry) Dec 09 14:06:00 it is not even useless :( Dec 09 14:06:04 hrw: It's certainly different. Dec 09 14:06:10 hrw: um Dec 09 14:06:13 please calm down Dec 09 14:06:14 hrw: It won't actually connect at all for me over pop3 Dec 09 14:06:16 god this is so awesome Dec 09 14:06:24 hrw: have you used the maemo<5 mail clients? Dec 09 14:06:27 the guy who wrote the email application is probably called a "contractor" Dec 09 14:06:28 no access to imap folders other then inbox/sent/drafts Dec 09 14:06:29 frals__, what is? Dec 09 14:06:34 Myrtti: I used Claws on n810 Dec 09 14:06:37 joppu_: yes, Mer needs custom icons Dec 09 14:06:44 contractors are guys who do whatever someone else tells them to do Dec 09 14:06:46 hrw: did you use the default one? Dec 09 14:06:54 hrw: did you try it? Dec 09 14:06:55 the n900 :D Dec 09 14:06:55 typically someone called a "ui designer" writes out lists of demands Dec 09 14:07:00 Myrtti: tried once and decided against it Dec 09 14:07:03 the ui designer, potentially also a "contractor" Dec 09 14:07:03 hrw, my imap folders work just fine... Dec 09 14:07:11 is ordered to solve a problem based on a list of "requirements" Dec 09 14:07:13 hrw: It uses folders for me on gmail imap just fine? Dec 09 14:07:20 the requirements come from some database of old and irrational requirements Dec 09 14:07:26 hrw: I think you'd need to put a lot of effort to make things worse than that Dec 09 14:07:43 this is all bundled together into a schedule by a guy called a "project manager" Dec 09 14:07:49 hrw: which I doubt has been done, effort is such a horrible thing to waste Dec 09 14:07:53 that guy says "oh, we don't have time for X, drop it" Dec 09 14:08:17 roughly, the people who work on an app in a company are not responsible for its quality Dec 09 14:08:24 timeless_mbp: I know how project managing works and what deadline means Dec 09 14:08:25 timeless: the requirements which may be drawn up by someone that hasn't actually used mobile email ever - for example - and is inventing logical requirements. Which adds fun. Dec 09 14:08:26 they're the victims of people they can't control ("managers") Dec 09 14:08:37 SpeedEvil++ Dec 09 14:08:53 that seems to describe 95% of our requirements on average Dec 09 14:09:05 e.g. the requirement not to use 'Re:' for all localizations Dec 09 14:09:17 "We must support Outlook Express style localized Re prefixes" Dec 09 14:09:19 Stskeeps, SpeedEvil: so who do we actually try to talk to to get some more progress on the GPS? Dec 09 14:09:25 * timeless_mbp grumbles Dec 09 14:09:25 16:06 < hrw> no access to imap folders other then inbox/sent/drafts Dec 09 14:09:35 on maemo5? not true. Dec 09 14:09:35 Targeted to be Fixed in some service release Dec 09 14:09:37 lardman: that information is not as I understand it public Dec 09 14:09:56 SpeedEvil: that's why I asked Stskeeps too ;) Dec 09 14:09:57 lardman: what do you mean pogress? Dec 09 14:10:01 s/pog/prog/ Dec 09 14:10:02 timeless_mbp meant: lardman: what do you mean progress? Dec 09 14:10:16 other than the fact that the checkboxes for gps are too intimately tied to work well Dec 09 14:10:18 I think it's time for some music Dec 09 14:10:19 http://www.thesixtyone.com/crazygibbon/song/PokemonFace/sEKkurubxQT/ Dec 09 14:10:23 and that the camera app uses them in a stupid place Dec 09 14:10:29 well I'd like to find out about caching definitively and as whether we might ever get an api to provide our own assistance data Dec 09 14:10:31 i don't see specific problems w/ gps Dec 09 14:10:40 lardman_: i know who to poke but i'm not sure how it can be done Dec 09 14:10:43 http://www.flickr.com/photos/hrwandil/4171933732/ is what I have on screen Dec 09 14:10:51 lardman: you can replace supl.nokia.com in the settings>location panel Dec 09 14:10:53 timeless_mbp: not problems per se, but progress Dec 09 14:11:17 timeless_mbp: I would prefer local data provision, but I guess running a local supl server would be possible Dec 09 14:11:18 X-Fade: anyway, about checkerboards Dec 09 14:11:38 no other folders, no way to go to inbox->mailinglists->development->oe->poky folder Dec 09 14:11:40 lardman_: i'm offering a public api :) Dec 09 14:11:43 bbl Dec 09 14:11:45 you're asking for work to be done Dec 09 14:11:50 oh I see Dec 09 14:12:00 timeless_mbp: well I'd like to know what is cached too Dec 09 14:12:12 suihkulokki: where should I get folders on that screen? Dec 09 14:12:16 as it doesn't seem to work well atm Dec 09 14:12:19 lardman_: oh that's not a bad idea timeless has.. Dec 09 14:12:23 anyway, got to go, bbl Dec 09 14:12:29 lardman_: make a localhost supl server that gives us data :P Dec 09 14:12:40 well, we're supposed to be partying today like we shipped the "Nokia 900" http://www.webwizardry.net/~timeless/n900/nokia-900.jpg Dec 09 14:12:55 timeless_mbp: oh dear Dec 09 14:12:59 so i wouldn't expect anything today (other than drunken finns) Dec 09 14:13:00 well - I have one valid bug on the GPS - the truncation of GPS coordinates precision in geotags of pics. Dec 09 14:13:05 timeless_mbp: Duh ;) Dec 09 14:13:10 SpeedEvil: 43, 47? :P Dec 09 14:13:14 Stskeeps: photo from the Helsinki Nokia Flagship store window display Dec 09 14:13:14 But I haven't properly verified the long lock with no net Dec 09 14:13:17 Stskeeps: ? Dec 09 14:13:19 hires photo w/ geotagging available Dec 09 14:13:24 SpeedEvil: rounds to integers? Dec 09 14:13:28 Stskeeps: yes Dec 09 14:13:32 SpeedEvil: sigh Dec 09 14:13:32 :P Dec 09 14:13:40 Stskeeps: integer seconds of lat/lon Dec 09 14:13:41 hhi Dec 09 14:13:43 hihi Dec 09 14:13:43 X-Fade: back to checkerboarded Dec 09 14:13:46 epic fail Dec 09 14:13:48 X-Fade: any good reason why http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo5.0/non-free/l/location-test-gui/ is blank btw? Dec 09 14:13:56 Stskeeps: (~30m grid at the equator) Dec 09 14:13:59 Stskeeps: heh Dec 09 14:14:02 hrw: in my case they are under sent folder. Dec 09 14:14:03 timeless_mbp: And you've not been shot for highlighting it yet? Dec 09 14:14:12 Stskeeps: Need to ask Soumya. Dec 09 14:14:16 https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6584 Dec 09 14:14:17 Bug 6584: GPS geotagged pictures truncate precision of GPS reading. Dec 09 14:14:28 Jaffa: well, i got two or three nastygrams from people at Nokia House Dec 09 14:14:35 i think they want to shoot me Dec 09 14:14:39 it's ok, the feeling is mutual Dec 09 14:14:51 * SpeedEvil passes timeless a suit of powered armour. Dec 09 14:14:52 timeless_mbp: i do wonder how you keep your job at times :P Dec 09 14:14:54 suihkulokki: I do not know... maybe it is refreshing folderlist in background... but I did not found email app which would require so big amount of time to scan it Dec 09 14:15:02 * SpeedEvil hopes timeless has enough bl5cs. Dec 09 14:15:06 Stskeeps: i wonder how long i'll keep my job every day or so Dec 09 14:15:12 I have just ~100 folders Dec 09 14:15:22 hrw: all subscribed? Dec 09 14:15:31 hrw: try subscribing to only 5 Dec 09 14:15:40 (preferably small folders!) Dec 09 14:15:45 timeless_mbp: first I want to get option to subscribe to them Dec 09 14:15:46 be nice to the tinymail program Dec 09 14:15:53 hrw: not implemented Dec 09 14:15:58 use thunderbird Dec 09 14:15:58 timeless_mbp: I want my OE folder with 14000 mails in it Dec 09 14:15:59 you're all silly, have some cheesecake Dec 09 14:16:14 Myrtti: that doesn't sound finnish Dec 09 14:16:21 timeless_mbp: rahkapulla then Dec 09 14:16:25 there's no subscribe to imap folders functionality? Dec 09 14:16:25 :P Dec 09 14:16:38 timeless_mbp: ok, so looks like I have to wait for alternative email client for n900? Dec 09 14:16:42 f..k Dec 09 14:16:44 hrw: claws should exist Dec 09 14:17:01 hrw: gmail/h and gmail/x work nicely Dec 09 14:17:07 timeless_mbp: I have all my folders subscribed Dec 09 14:17:15 claws would be so much cooler if they didn't have an elitist attitude about contacts.. Dec 09 14:17:16 timeless_mbp: I do not wnt to move my mail to gmail Dec 09 14:17:16 hrw: so fix it w/ another client once Dec 09 14:17:19 :P Dec 09 14:17:19 timeless_mbp: http://mediaserver-2.vuodatus.net/g/33648/743281.jpg Dec 09 14:17:22 * Stskeeps likes claws though Dec 09 14:17:27 Myrtti: yum Dec 09 14:17:50 MfE works if you can get your mail server admin to add support for it Dec 09 14:18:20 it turns out that google supports some version of MfE... hypothetically someday some MfE clients might support it too :) Dec 09 14:18:44 timeless_mbp: problemthere is that it's mostly paying addons :/ Dec 09 14:18:53 ? Dec 09 14:19:27 the mfe addons on zimbra, zarafa etc Dec 09 14:20:22 interesting Dec 09 14:20:40 so for 50USD / year i can get decent mobile access to my mailbox? Dec 09 14:20:43 that's a bargain Dec 09 14:21:10 timeless set up your own zimbra Dec 09 14:21:22 or what is mfe really? Dec 09 14:21:40 microsoft's replacement for imap Dec 09 14:21:42 (roughly) Dec 09 14:22:00 it's a server controlled windowed push protocol Dec 09 14:22:07 ieehks Dec 09 14:22:12 news on bug 5337 Dec 09 14:22:13 the blackberry death Dec 09 14:22:13 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5337 Can't get GPS lock without network connection Dec 09 14:22:14 the server says "I know you have X, Y, Z. Forget them" Dec 09 14:22:22 nobody needs this Dec 09 14:22:22 so, quim got a fix and made it back. he claims to have no SIM in but then says that he installed the Location widget, so presumably he had Wifi connectivity. Dec 09 14:22:33 "Add A, B, C with data: ..." Dec 09 14:22:42 quim found his way back! :o Dec 09 14:23:30 fnordianslip, location widget is built-in. Dec 09 14:23:37 lol Dec 09 14:23:38 fnordianslip, he means "added the location widget to the desktop" Dec 09 14:23:38 ah Dec 09 14:23:43 ok Dec 09 14:23:44 GeneralAntilles: odd Dec 09 14:23:53 isn't the location widget a default on widget? Dec 09 14:24:15 no. Dec 09 14:24:21 hello Dec 09 14:24:30 * timeless_mbp removes most of the default widgets anyway Dec 09 14:24:34 (first run task) Dec 09 14:24:38 "gotta zap them all" Dec 09 14:24:39 timeless_mbp, quite possibly. Dec 09 14:24:50 ORLY? Dec 09 14:24:59 zap_: =) Dec 09 14:25:04 i'm not much of a collector Dec 09 14:25:10 and they slow down boot remendously Dec 09 14:25:16 i like a nearly pristine mobile desktop Dec 09 14:25:34 unlike my work desktops where i have hundreds or thousands of objects :) Dec 09 14:25:36 I'm unsure that 'no GPS lock without a connection' is actually valid if you've had a GPS connection which may have stored data recently Dec 09 14:25:52 recently = 12h-3 weeks Dec 09 14:25:59 depending on stuff Dec 09 14:26:04 SpeedEvil: he flashed it first Dec 09 14:26:50 heh. One of my coworkers just had his n900 arrive Dec 09 14:27:16 that said, his GPS experience sounds tortorous Dec 09 14:29:05 Stskeeps, yeah, I feel like he's splitting hairs over the summary and resolution. Dec 09 14:29:12 ccooke, was there cheering involved? Dec 09 14:29:24 Stskeeps, a process that, in the end, is just generating ill-will and preventing us from actually getting any bugs addressed. Dec 09 14:29:24 *laugh* Dec 09 14:30:35 GeneralAntilles: obviously GPS fixes are possible, but it's not very strong Dec 09 14:30:49 Stskeeps, and my experience in BCN was that they're not possible. Dec 09 14:31:03 that they're buggy is something else :P Dec 09 14:31:20 ~seen fiferboy Dec 09 14:31:22 fiferboy is currently on #maemo (49m 45s), last said: 'You can set them up to, or add alpha to an RGB pixbuf'. Dec 09 14:31:47 Hey wazd Dec 09 14:31:59 fiferboy_: heya :) Dec 09 14:32:07 joppu_: so what did you base your icon set on? Dec 09 14:32:18 fiferboy: how's it going? :) Dec 09 14:32:39 wazd: He's a ghost Dec 09 14:32:52 fiferboy_: ah :) Dec 09 14:32:58 Egads the Pandora is ugly. Dec 09 14:33:02 hi N900 seems to be completely sold out in France. Vendor the phone house report only 5 out of 300 stores with a N900 in stock. How is it going in other countries? Dec 09 14:33:32 and people call the N900 thick. . . . Dec 09 14:33:43 guerby, heard uk was low on N900's Dec 09 14:34:20 fiferboy_: do you have any progress on PC? ;) Dec 09 14:34:22 GeneralAntilles: I don't understand that to be honest Dec 09 14:34:29 w00t, nor I. Dec 09 14:34:39 wazd: Not since the baby Dec 09 14:34:39 mece, /www.expansys.co.uk is out of stock too Dec 09 14:34:46 GeneralAntilles: n900 is a bit thick *I SUPPOSE*, compared to other phones, but it's certainly not huge Dec 09 14:35:00 it's smaller than my previous phone (HTC Universal) by alot Dec 09 14:35:01 Pandora really needs Mer. Dec 09 14:35:06 guerby, *play.com* cough Dec 09 14:35:07 Talk about waiting a while for boot. Dec 09 14:35:11 fiferboy_: ah, sure :) Dec 09 14:35:13 w00t: it's about as thick as most phones with useful slide out keyboards Dec 09 14:35:25 if it didn't have the keyboard it could be thinner Dec 09 14:35:31 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6m1y01LXtM Dec 09 14:35:32 gur Dec 09 14:35:34 and then people could complain it doesn't have a keyboard Dec 09 14:35:37 nvm pre-order Dec 09 14:35:39 people will always complain Dec 09 14:36:02 timeless_mbp: but why n810 is not so thick? Dec 09 14:36:14 hrw: it also didn't have a cellular radio Dec 09 14:36:15 hrw, wider, taller Dec 09 14:36:17 less hardware, larger other dimensions? Dec 09 14:36:17 Plus fewer electronics. Dec 09 14:36:22 n810 is just like n900 base Dec 09 14:36:45 The stylus tappin' on the Pandora makes me chuckle. Dec 09 14:36:46 i've heard rumors that to get a working signal w/ AT&T's network, your phone needs to be somewhat thick - just for the radio Dec 09 14:36:46 guerby, collabora bought up all the uk stock according to Robot101 :) Dec 09 14:36:57 i'd always wondered why the iPhone was so much thicker than my iPod touch Dec 09 14:37:05 i have to believe that it really is a radio requirement Dec 09 14:37:08 timeless_mbp, i managed with my e71 fine when i was in usa Dec 09 14:37:12 downloading openarena over 3g 384kbps was a stupid idea... Dec 09 14:37:18 zaheerm: on at&t 3g? Dec 09 14:37:21 iirc it has been rumoured the reason n900 is thick is the camera module Dec 09 14:37:21 oh well, it's still ticking. Dec 09 14:37:26 timeless_mbp, aah only 2g Dec 09 14:37:30 timeless_mbp: my point is, really, I don't see why people are complaining about the size Dec 09 14:37:37 it's not unmanageably big Dec 09 14:37:39 zaheerm: sounds like you're proof that it's the radio :) Dec 09 14:37:48 w00t: me neither Dec 09 14:37:49 i don't think my e71 had at&t 3g freqs Dec 09 14:37:55 Damnable lack of AT&T 3G. Dec 09 14:38:05 also when i travel i always set my radio to 2g Dec 09 14:38:10 * GeneralAntilles really hates Nokia for that. Dec 09 14:38:27 GeneralAntilles: that was clearly a business decision Dec 09 14:38:34 it sounds like working w/ at&t is painful Dec 09 14:38:39 and requires a lot of up front planning Dec 09 14:38:49 or that t-mobile paid some money for not having at&t freqs ;) Dec 09 14:38:54 it took apple, what 2-3 years to design the iPhone in concert w/ at&t, no? Dec 09 14:38:55 fiferboy_: maybe I'll just start to make some skins :) Dec 09 14:38:55 GeneralAntilles, Isn't that cdma? Also known as the hd-dvd of telecom? Dec 09 14:39:06 fiferboy_: and you'll catch up when ready :) Dec 09 14:39:06 mece: no Dec 09 14:39:13 verizon/sprint and friends are cdma Dec 09 14:39:23 at&t and tmobile are the gsm providers in the usa Dec 09 14:39:24 ok. well then it's just a bummer. Dec 09 14:39:25 wazd: That sounds good Dec 09 14:39:33 I'm off. toodles. Dec 09 14:39:37 (ignoring minor bit players and sublicensees) Dec 09 14:39:50 timeless_mbp: well, the iphone proves that if you have a great product with a overhyped brand, at&t will take it, no matter how bad the deal is to them.. Dec 09 14:40:05 suihkulokki: heh Dec 09 14:40:15 well, that's no problem for Nokia Dec 09 14:40:19 we don't have any of that :) Dec 09 14:40:27 indeed. Dec 09 14:40:42 suihkulokki: care to join me for a field trip to the Nokia Flagship store? Dec 09 14:40:50 we can see if they manage to spell our product's name right :) Dec 09 14:40:52 re Dec 09 14:41:27 http://communities-dominate.blogs.com/brands/2009/12/us-west-coast-drunk-on-iphone-yes-but-android-is-not-the-answer.html <-- intresting read Dec 09 14:41:30 timeless_mbp, adding a radio frequency hardly seems like something that'd involve much talking with AT&T. Dec 09 14:41:42 More likely is that it was part of their agreement with T-Mobile US not to include AT&T 3G support. Dec 09 14:41:47 So, yes, a business decision. Dec 09 14:41:53 timeless_mbp: yeah, I could Dec 09 14:41:56 and a stupid and irritating one since T-Mobile has shit for coverage. Dec 09 14:42:17 re Dec 09 14:42:27 SpeedEvil, Stskeeps: still about Dec 09 14:42:30 suihkulokki: ok, i'm feeling unwell, can you head to kaampi metro station near the radisson hotel? Dec 09 14:42:31 timeless_mbp: I presume we'll head to the same place afterwards Dec 09 14:42:34 re local supl servers Dec 09 14:42:36 i can meet you there at 5pm Dec 09 14:42:38 Darn network connection >:| Dec 09 14:42:39 suihkulokki: yeah Dec 09 14:42:42 not at office? Dec 09 14:42:44 suihkulokki: you have my phone number, right? Dec 09 14:42:47 cant get the phonon to work properly on maemo Dec 09 14:42:49 suihkulokki: i'm feeling unwell Dec 09 14:42:50 :( Dec 09 14:43:01 but yeah, we'll head to the same place afterwards Dec 09 14:43:05 timeless_mbp: get well soon Dec 09 14:43:07 you can lead since i have no idea where it is Dec 09 14:43:09 * suihkulokki wonders if it is healthy to meet you then :P Dec 09 14:43:17 suihkulokki: oh, i'm fine :) Dec 09 14:43:25 take one of those masks ;) Dec 09 14:43:35 http://marcin.juszkiewicz.com.pl/2009/12/09/n900-arrived/ Dec 09 14:44:18 lardman: mm? Dec 09 14:45:36 I've got an n900 customizability question for anyone who might know. given that most of the SMSes I receive are work-related and most of the voice calls I receive aren't, I'd like to make SMS messages produce an audible noise but voice calls only vibrate. is there a way I can hack together something (even through the terminal) to do that? Dec 09 14:45:48 SUPL server to allow GPS data injection when there's no web link Dec 09 14:46:17 Hydroxide: I think you can change the volume for different things can't you? Dec 09 14:46:20 that would be my preferred behavior for the 'general' profile. for the 'silent' profile I'd like SMSes to vibrate and voice calls to make no vibration/noise Dec 09 14:46:32 Hydroxide: not given the current stack Dec 09 14:46:32 lardman: yeah, that would be one way to do it. but i worry that it then tries to make a data conn anyway Dec 09 14:46:37 it's definitely doable in software Dec 09 14:46:52 lardman: I don't know a way to configure vibration for sms and voice separately Dec 09 14:47:03 uf... after looong time email app finally shown folder list Dec 09 14:47:13 Stskeeps: well I guess if it's written properly it should just try for the supl server address it's given Dec 09 14:47:22 timeless_mbp: is there a way I can write a component for something, or do I have to file a feature request with nokia and wait for them to take action? Dec 09 14:47:27 Hydroxide: oh vibration, dunno then sorry Dec 09 14:47:32 just to tell that they are empty ;D Dec 09 14:47:35 Hydroxide: my impression is that you could do it Dec 09 14:47:42 the ui is afaiu built around dbus hooks Dec 09 14:47:47 so it should be possible, i believe Dec 09 14:47:50 but i work on the web browser Dec 09 14:47:57 i've never actually looked at any of this, and i don't want to Dec 09 14:48:01 -- ie don't quote me Dec 09 14:48:14 timeless_mbp: yes. it's fine if you don't know the details. what would be ideal is simply a pointer to the relevant public docs Dec 09 14:48:29 I wouldn't mind learning dbus and telepathy anyway Dec 09 14:48:31 well, mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/ has the public sources Dec 09 14:48:50 dbus and telepathy docs are probably best found somewhere not in *.maemo.org Dec 09 14:48:51 ok... Dec 09 14:49:08 my impression from people internally is that we (perhaps thankfully) don't have our own better docs Dec 09 14:49:09 heh, probably :) except for whatever maemo-specific components there are. Dec 09 14:49:18 hmm, tempted to upgrade to exchange 2007 just so i can sync with exchange.. wonder if its worth the hassle of running it on x86 >-< Dec 09 14:49:24 for the most part we're apparently using bog standard telepathy apis Dec 09 14:49:32 (again probably a very good thing) Dec 09 14:49:42 I could also ask some of the collabora guys I know from debian, but I'll start by looking at standard docs, the maemo sdk docs, the URL you gave me, etc. thanks! Dec 09 14:49:53 lardman: openssl s_client -tls1 -connect supl.nokia.com:7275 Dec 09 14:49:59 and yes, reusing standards is a major plus of the n900 and maemo generally Dec 09 14:50:03 Hydroxide: sounds like pretty much the right approach Dec 09 14:50:12 it sounds like the collabra guys really are the best source Dec 09 14:50:16 yep. that was my plan all along - was just hoping for pointers Dec 09 14:50:32 Stskeeps: nice Dec 09 14:50:43 the notification apis are probably the part where you'll diverge from the standards Dec 09 14:50:48 and need to play w/ maemo stuff Dec 09 14:50:48 * SpeedEvil passes Hydroxide a *. Dec 09 14:50:51 but that's expected Dec 09 14:51:14 X-Fade: still trying to explain checkerboarding Dec 09 14:51:15 yeah, they seem to be focused especially on that stuff. it's a shame that the most technical IRC chatrooms related to this part of the maemo stack are on collabora's staff-only IRC network according to them :P Dec 09 14:51:26 SpeedEvil: careful - that almost got dereferenced in transit! Dec 09 14:51:46 timeless_mbp: An alternative is to explain it to me over lunch next week ;) Dec 09 14:51:59 X-Fade: well, i want to write this up into a document Dec 09 14:51:59 lardman: http://www.openmobilealliance.org/technical/release_program/supl_v1_0.aspx Dec 09 14:52:03 because i'm tired of explaining it Dec 09 14:52:10 Stskeeps: v2 now I think Dec 09 14:52:13 but yes, lunch next week sounds good Dec 09 14:52:16 http://www.openmobilealliance.org/Technical/release_program/supl_v2_0.aspx Dec 09 14:52:22 * timeless_mbp tries to figure out pants for this evening Dec 09 14:52:58 timeless: mankini Dec 09 14:53:00 ok, so I'll hack a Python server together to pass data through and allow us to look at it too Dec 09 14:54:45 SpeedEvil: are there any opensource apps which generate ephemeris and almanac dara? Dec 09 14:55:03 there's a database i think Dec 09 14:55:04 lardman: not as far as I'm aware. Dec 09 14:55:16 lardman: you can get two line element sets for the sats Dec 09 14:55:33 what we really need to make it useful is forward predictions Dec 09 14:55:53 http://celestrak.com/NORAD/elements/supplemental/ Dec 09 14:56:47 Stskeeps: Fixed: http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo5.0/non-free/l/location-test-gui/ Dec 09 14:57:00 lardman/speedevil what you are working on? Dec 09 14:57:07 X-Fade: thanks, was a bit baffled by it Dec 09 14:57:12 woglinde: injecting supl data Dec 09 14:57:22 woglinde: I'm just trying to work out why I sometimes get bad lock times for the GPS Dec 09 14:57:26 woglinde: specifically when there's no net link Dec 09 14:57:27 Stskeeps: Turned out to be a broken regex.. Dec 09 14:57:32 given a set of tles, predict should do it Dec 09 14:57:36 woglinde: I'm perhaps a bit obsessed - I'm working on a software GPS too Dec 09 14:57:40 what does location-test-gui do? Dec 09 14:57:42 hm isnt it gpsd again? Dec 09 14:57:54 fnordianslip: yes - but then you need to go to the ephemeirs format Dec 09 14:57:58 woglinde: that's above the level we're looking at Dec 09 14:58:01 lardman: it's a tool for testing the location framework Dec 09 14:58:07 lardman: you'll probably have good use for it Dec 09 14:58:16 cool, thanks both then Dec 09 14:58:25 lardman hm okay so you are on the paths of guypsy Dec 09 14:59:57 X-Fade: http://viper.haque.net/~timeless/blog/165 Dec 09 15:00:01 rough writeup Dec 09 15:00:04 a better one later Dec 09 15:00:06 * timeless_mbp goes out Dec 09 15:00:13 ciao timeless Dec 09 15:01:15 hi ;D Dec 09 15:01:28 timeless_mbp: Yeah, I get that. But why doesn't scrolling trigger a redraw? Dec 09 15:01:47 hmm, when a dialog is in the fg and the bg is blurred out, it doesn't reflect any changes in the underlying app Dec 09 15:01:50 timeless_mbp: Or re-render. It just doesn't do anything but show the checkerboard at that point. Dec 09 15:01:57 it should, eventually Dec 09 15:02:22 timeless_mbp: sometimes it doesn't render anything after the page loads, i just get a whiteout, until i scroll or something Dec 09 15:02:25 X-Fade: installing load applet gets you a better idea of what the CPU is doing Dec 09 15:02:39 SpeedEvil: I know and cpu is idle then ;) Dec 09 15:03:03 I hate HAM Dec 09 15:03:22 lardman: SPAM any better? Dec 09 15:03:42 perhaps SPHAM - simon pickerings hacked hildon app manager? Dec 09 15:05:31 the other thing that really annoys me, is the way the browser flicks up and down when it opens Dec 09 15:05:39 right, GPS bug is turning toxic Dec 09 15:05:40 :P Dec 09 15:06:18 I was able to get the gps to get a fix by running ecoach Dec 09 15:06:24 timeless_mbp: any chance of not resizing the browser window when the url bar is displayed? Dec 09 15:06:31 Who here thinks that omission of up and down arrow keys in some localizations is a defect? Dec 09 15:06:48 maemo-mapper and the built-in stuff and gpxview all couldn't get a fix, but they could use the fix once ecoach got it Dec 09 15:06:51 lardman: There is an option to start in full screen mode. Dec 09 15:07:13 Hydroxide: i'm not sure MM is using liblocation correctly Dec 09 15:07:14 * toggles_w is unboxing.. Dec 09 15:07:38 Jaffa: just wanted to say thank you for hermes Dec 09 15:07:47 X-Fade: it's also the way it changes the screen though when the url bar comes up, so if you've clicked the wrong link you need to reaim Dec 09 15:07:47 Stskeeps: it might not be. what programs/tools besides ecoach are supposed to be able to get a fix currently? Dec 09 15:07:57 Stskeeps, seems like GPS bugs always turn toxic. Dec 09 15:08:13 * RST38h continues watching bug 5337 in complete awe Dec 09 15:08:14 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5337 Can't get GPS lock without network connection Dec 09 15:08:27 yeah that's ridiculous Dec 09 15:08:36 btw queue Britney Spears :P Dec 09 15:08:38 Quim and a few other people should be in emergency rooms with deadly bouts of hiccups by now Dec 09 15:09:01 GeneralAntilles: well, technically it should take 12.5min for a totally cold fix Dec 09 15:09:12 X-Fade: actually I think the open in full screen mode is the thing that's annoying me, as it seems to open then go full screen Dec 09 15:09:24 how can an app detect going to portrait mode ? Dec 09 15:09:31 Stskeeps: note, I actually have had a network connection every time I've tried the GPS, so this is unrelated to #5337. ecoach was able to get a fix in seconds with a network connection, and no other program I've found yet could get one in several minutes in the same exact situation Dec 09 15:09:41 homeasvs: read the docs, dbus message Dec 09 15:09:51 i wonder if the sat signals are two weak to read the almanac data without errors under some circumstances, perhaps. Dec 09 15:10:25 Stskeeps: am I missing something key? Dec 09 15:10:27 fnordianslip: also a good theory Dec 09 15:10:30 Stskeeps, with optimal conditions perhaps. Dec 09 15:10:39 Hydroxide: location-test-gui would be a good tool for it Dec 09 15:10:46 GAN900: yeah Dec 09 15:10:51 Stskeeps, but, like I said, I couldn't get a fix at all in BCN. Dec 09 15:10:58 GAN900: even with wifi connected? Dec 09 15:11:01 ooo, that gps test program is cool Dec 09 15:11:02 and a sim Dec 09 15:11:20 perhaps we could aggregate different almanac cycles with an algorithm to combine them and mitigate the errors Dec 09 15:11:21 Stskeeps: what package is that in? Dec 09 15:11:31 Hydroxide: url was mentioned above, it's in tools non-free Dec 09 15:11:44 <_berto_> with internet connection it works fine, but without it I haven't been able to get a fix either Dec 09 15:11:50 Stskeeps: oh, in the source? gotcha Dec 09 15:12:19 that sounds like a good idea Dec 09 15:12:24 Stskeeps, even with. Dec 09 15:12:31 i've just got a fix using Location test GUI in GNSS mode, after about 20 mins. I do have 3G and wifi on, but that shouldn't in theory make a difference Dec 09 15:12:33 GAN900: that's odd Dec 09 15:12:43 Although I didn't spend more than 5 minutes trying outdoors. Dec 09 15:12:47 I'm surprised no-one is more excited about Latitude working Dec 09 15:12:57 It almost sounds like a bug. ;) Dec 09 15:13:01 is it in extras yet? Dec 09 15:13:01 :P Dec 09 15:13:16 wjt: You're welcome :) Dec 09 15:13:20 lardman, i am, it is in my bookmarks :) Dec 09 15:13:35 oh good :) Dec 09 15:13:48 Jaffa: :) We just got a shipment of N900s, and my address book looks much prettier post-Hermes Dec 09 15:13:50 Stskeeps: Latitude? Is a bookmark Dec 09 15:13:52 * agi waves at _berto_ Dec 09 15:13:56 lardman: ah Dec 09 15:14:01 although osso-abook is happily chomping my CPU Dec 09 15:14:04 guess it takes a while Dec 09 15:15:04 <_berto_> hi agi ;) Dec 09 15:15:04 * Flandry wishes he had his N900 already :/ Dec 09 15:15:08 <_berto_> you here? Dec 09 15:15:36 _berto_: yep :) Dec 09 15:15:56 _berto_: bought a n900 (and had to return it 2 days afterwards) Dec 09 15:16:03 <_berto_> mic not working ? Dec 09 15:16:04 #6334 Dec 09 15:16:18 _berto_: more reboots than uptime Dec 09 15:16:22 <_berto_> wow Dec 09 15:16:33 <_berto_> :? Dec 09 15:16:44 lovely device, waiting for a new one Dec 09 15:17:09 hope the next one works, reading #6334 scares the hell out of me Dec 09 15:17:45 <_berto_> I didn't know that one existed Dec 09 15:17:52 <_berto_> I heard about problems with the microphone, though Dec 09 15:18:02 * fnordianslip wonders if Location Test GUI could show status of almanac data recieved, etc Dec 09 15:18:07 I only had issues when installing fm radio Dec 09 15:18:11 Stskeeps: thanks for the pointer to the tools repo - I'm going to enjoy having less and screen around :) Dec 09 15:18:13 I think I'll have to write a daemon that sends location info to the Google server rather than having the browser open all the time Dec 09 15:18:39 lardman, that'd be better definitely Dec 09 15:18:52 I need to do some tcp/ip sniffing and work out the format Dec 09 15:19:41 _berto_: never heard of this problem until I received my device. Now it seems to be a big problem in a lot of devices. Hopefully just a bad batch... Dec 09 15:20:21 <_berto_> I hope so Dec 09 15:20:56 lardman, no public api for sending the location data to latitude? Dec 09 15:22:20 Jaffa: hey, it'd be really nice if i could type to search the facebook contacts when manually pairing up unmatched people Dec 09 15:26:01 agreed with wjt, other than that much love for creating hermes :D Dec 09 15:27:29 Stskeeps: ok, will have to try location-test-gui when I'm next outdoors. if that works, what does it mean with regard to my gps issues? (I think maemo-geolocation wasn't able to get a fix either - haven't yet tried with a fix already established by ecoach) Dec 09 15:27:33 zaheerm: nope Dec 09 15:28:09 Hydroxide: they all use the same backend Dec 09 15:28:09 Hydroxide: well it will help pinpoint issues Dec 09 15:28:15 Stskeeps: Once again: where do I get lcoation-test-gui? It does not appear in Extras-devel for me Dec 09 15:28:33 RST38h: grab it manually from the extras repo Dec 09 15:28:39 non-free Dec 09 15:28:39 aha Dec 09 15:28:47 i've noticed that LTG can show a lock and Ovi Maps can shows a position, then the red dot just disappears from Ovi maps, yet LTG still shows a lock. must be a different issue. Dec 09 15:28:50 don't you mean SDK tools repo, lardman? Dec 09 15:28:58 nope Dec 09 15:28:58 lardman: I had to add the tools repository and then find it in the second Other repository Dec 09 15:29:02 or maybe System Dec 09 15:29:08 fnordianslip, that is an ovi maps bug i believe Dec 09 15:29:15 I just downloaded it in a browser from extras Dec 09 15:29:22 zaheerm: tnx Dec 09 15:29:28 fnordianslip: Don't look too much at Ovi Maps. It doesn't seem to use liblocation correctly it seems. Dec 09 15:29:35 or did I Dec 09 15:29:35 k Dec 09 15:29:45 maemo-mapper was able to track my bus ride once I had a fix Dec 09 15:29:53 Nor do anything else that makes sense ;) Dec 09 15:29:56 so it's clearly using liblocation at least semi-correctly :) Dec 09 15:30:03 I know MM != OM though Dec 09 15:30:21 http://repository.maemo.org/pool/fremantle/non-free/l/location-test-gui/ Dec 09 15:30:24 whatever repo that is Dec 09 15:30:33 hmmmm Dec 09 15:30:34 Tha is SDK Dec 09 15:30:46 hmm using the jabber in accounts makes my ejabberd flip :p Dec 09 15:30:55 lardman: that is just the pool used by all the maemo.org repos Dec 09 15:30:59 probably empathy issue Dec 09 15:31:08 still annoying Dec 09 15:31:19 X-Fade: ah, ok Dec 09 15:31:59 is erlang still building? Dec 09 15:32:15 ah. LTG is non-free, that's why i just failed to find the source Dec 09 15:33:57 jebba: looks like it: inet_gethost inet_gethost 4 Dec 09 15:34:21 Location Test GUI works Dec 09 15:34:30 gotta try it without network though Dec 09 15:34:40 I'm just trying LTG in ofline mode now Dec 09 15:34:51 nice little app, /me loves it =) Dec 09 15:34:58 source please Dec 09 15:37:30 hmm. if almanac data is sent every 12.5 mins, then in worst (viable) case, you might have to wait just less than 25 mins to receive it Dec 09 15:37:49 assuming it tales 12.5 minutes to send it Dec 09 15:38:42 fnordianslip: I assume 3 hours can still be considered as "it does not work" though? Dec 09 15:38:49 https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5337 <- lol Dec 09 15:38:50 Bug 5337: Can't get GPS lock without network connection Dec 09 15:38:54 its true the gps really is crap Dec 09 15:39:09 fnordianslip: Unless you have a slight interruption in reception while the almanac stream comes down. Dec 09 15:39:09 Ceron^: it is deeper than that though Dec 09 15:39:28 Stskeeps: deeper? Dec 09 15:39:30 jesus christ, I guy just came in to ask to sign a petition not to build a base station in the vicinity Dec 09 15:39:43 base station? hell yes! Dec 09 15:39:46 Stskeeps: This makes me wonder: is there ANY device on the market where TI5500 chip (or whatever it is in N900) works well? Dec 09 15:39:46 faster 3g? ;p Dec 09 15:39:48 Ceron^: GPS hardware is ok, just not the software Dec 09 15:39:53 that's why i wondered about accumulating almanac data, containing residual errors, and trying to average them out Dec 09 15:39:59 Flandry: you sure? Dec 09 15:40:02 I was the only one who signed who agrees with the build Dec 09 15:40:06 Flandry: what chipset is n900 useing for gps? Dec 09 15:40:07 TomaszD: So have you signed? ;) Dec 09 15:40:08 not sure if that is feasible though Dec 09 15:40:09 sirf3? Dec 09 15:40:09 well in theory anyway :D Dec 09 15:40:25 TomaszD: I would also write "And kill all the whales please" =) Dec 09 15:40:41 RST38h, you had a choice Yes, build or No, don't build, I was the only one who signed up as Yes, build Dec 09 15:40:52 fucking crazy backwoods people Dec 09 15:40:53 Don't think it's a sirf Dec 09 15:40:56 Ceron: N900 uses TI's NaviLink Dec 09 15:41:02 Ceron: Probably a 5500 Dec 09 15:41:25 TomsazD: Could you at least put "10" in the "yes" field? =) Dec 09 15:41:28 RST38h: i wonder if it caches almanac data as well Dec 09 15:41:34 the point is with AGPS it can get a fix fast Dec 09 15:41:38 RST38h: cos if it does a completely cold fix every time, that's obviously not good Dec 09 15:41:49 suggests to me there are problems with implementation/drivers Dec 09 15:42:11 Stskeeps: At least the Exchange connector guy had enough care for his work to come to t.m.o and ask for feedback Dec 09 15:42:17 Ah, it feels good to drive yourself again. ;) Dec 09 15:42:27 Stskeeps: One can only wish the GPS guy would do the same... Dec 09 15:42:47 anyone got a review on Texas Instruments Navilink 5500 gps Dec 09 15:42:56 im intrested to know its performance :p Dec 09 15:42:59 * RST38h suspects N900 uses NL5350 rather than NL5500, right or wrong? Dec 09 15:43:00 and accuaricy :p Dec 09 15:43:08 RST38h: exchange guy was russian, he's able to deal with people with pitchforks standing at his doorstep Dec 09 15:43:09 Anyone has a hires image of a gutted N900? =) Dec 09 15:43:20 Stskeeps: Sadly, yes Dec 09 15:43:25 what the hell is with those people commenting on the gps bug as if this was some kind of a forum Dec 09 15:43:35 yeh wierd ppl Dec 09 15:43:41 RST38h: i'm not sure this goes for the GPS guy Dec 09 15:43:42 what's Sync meant to do on n900wallpapers? Dec 09 15:43:43 they should find a solution not flame it Dec 09 15:43:47 Ceron^: there's a discussion of N900 GPS in the preview on symbian world that is continued in the forum thread Dec 09 15:43:53 Stskeeps: (sadly in the sense that I wish everyone would be able to do that) Dec 09 15:44:10 move the discussion to tmo, I'm getting spammed with useless bugzilla comments Dec 09 15:44:24 TomaszD: Quim marked it as worksforme, with a really screwy explanation Dec 09 15:44:25 TomaszD, people who don't get Bugzilla. Dec 09 15:44:41 TomaszD: LOTS of people are watching this bug and they are royally pissed off Dec 09 15:44:57 TomaszD: So, it probably felt like the last drop to them, and many cracked Dec 09 15:45:19 RST38h: well, definition of 'WORKS' is interesting. it seems like fixes are indeed possible but take ages Dec 09 15:45:19 RST38h, still doesn't excuse the spam. Dec 09 15:45:21 RST38hdunno - I'm fairly sure it's no tthe 5500 - as that has more radios in - and they duplicate the existing FM and bluetooth Dec 09 15:45:21 for people who aren't used to bugtracking systems, I can understand the confusion. (and the anger.) Dec 09 15:45:40 General: I would not call it "spam", just a wrong place fo rcomments like these Dec 09 15:45:55 RST38h: nl5350 may be it I suppose Dec 09 15:46:00 SpeedEvil: 5350 then. N810 had 5300. Dec 09 15:46:12 Klapper does a bit of bugzilla spam of his own from time to time Dec 09 15:46:17 This is not the confusion Dec 09 15:46:21 RST38h: so make a new bug "GPS fix seems to take incredibly long time without a network connection" Dec 09 15:46:23 Anger mostly, judging from comments Dec 09 15:46:29 RST38h, does it contribute anything useful to the bug? No. Spam. Dec 09 15:46:31 RST38h: but - why are we sure it's a TI part? Dec 09 15:46:38 RST38h: which is the main issue in this one Dec 09 15:46:39 Flandry, in the form of whiny comments? :) Dec 09 15:46:42 Flandry: You meanm, he offers penis extensions? What is the bug #? =) Dec 09 15:46:56 lol no not extenze ads Dec 09 15:46:58 SpeedEvil: Seen a reference to NaviLink Dec 09 15:47:02 RST38h: where? Dec 09 15:47:15 SpeedEvil: no longer remember, sorry Dec 09 15:47:17 Performing your work with joy leads to better results. - Aristotle Dec 09 15:48:01 Stskeeps: When it doesn't work, it doesn't work (for some definition of) forever, not for a known finite time Dec 09 15:48:38 fnordianslip: If it does not work until Nokia replaces it with a different kidn of a chip, is this considered a finite time? Dec 09 15:48:42 er whatchadoin GeneralAntilles Dec 09 15:48:42 fnordianslip: well, realistically we should have a fix within 12.5 mins. if it's more, quality of gps signal is bad Dec 09 15:48:48 * RST38h laughes demonically Dec 09 15:48:59 fnordianslip: ok, 25 Dec 09 15:49:05 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSqldvt9RK8 wacky. navilink 6 Dec 09 15:49:13 Flandry, killing a ban I set on a spammer from 34,000 feet Monday. Dec 09 15:50:15 wacky Dec 09 15:50:26 lol they need a new bugzilla status "WORKSFORME-ATT=HARMATTAN" Dec 09 15:50:28 aerobanhammer Dec 09 15:50:37 RST38h, indeed. Dec 09 15:50:46 RST38h, BANNED FROM SPACE! Dec 09 15:50:56 It seems to me that the GPS data is just not used correctly. Dec 09 15:50:57 satellite-based defense? Dec 09 15:51:09 General: There is a relatively well known story about someone calling HP service center about a printer Dec 09 15:51:22 General: With the service guy asking the caller to bring the printer for service Dec 09 15:51:27 anyone know what the chrage time on these things is from flat? Dec 09 15:51:33 X-Fade: well, ovi maps giving up after a little while doesn't help impression Dec 09 15:51:36 The location test sometimes knows my location with reasonable < 1km accuracy with 0/12 sats. Dec 09 15:51:52 X-Fade: with cell-id probably Dec 09 15:51:53 That should be quite ok to start with. Dec 09 15:52:06 X-Fade: that requires a network though Dec 09 15:52:07 X-Fade: in which mode? try GNSS Dec 09 15:52:22 General: And the caller answering that he is on the space station, so it is kinda problematic, but if the HP guy tells him what joint to solder... Dec 09 15:52:25 where does .desktop file for loopable backgrounds go? Dec 09 15:52:43 fnordianslip: Ok. Let me try that. Dec 09 15:53:27 why would a guy from the space station go on an ordinary support line Dec 09 15:54:23 http://community.ti.com/blogs/mobilemomentum/archive/2009/08/28/newest-omap-3-processor-based-device-sets-even-higher-standards-in-mid-market.aspx Dec 09 15:54:35 he should just use the replicator :P Dec 09 15:54:52 RST38h: I would have expected 'and navilink 5 for ...' in there Dec 09 15:55:34 I can't believe it's a navilink 6 Dec 09 15:55:47 It looks like the erlang build really got stuck. Dec 09 15:56:08 lardman: i haven't found any proof what chip it is either Dec 09 15:56:09 lardman: I really doubt that Dec 09 15:56:11 My guess is that it hangs on ip tests.. Dec 09 15:56:28 would duplicate 2 extra chips, seems a bit silly really Dec 09 15:56:35 lardman: I can't see any reports from any sources other than guesswork that it's even a navilink Dec 09 15:56:48 we need to find the gspdriver equiv and run strings on it, that's how I worked out the N810 had the 5300 Dec 09 15:57:00 lardman: there's none, as far as i can tell Dec 09 15:57:18 I wish I could tell what was going on with my DDP order(s). Dec 09 15:57:20 how do things talk to it? through a dev entry? Dec 09 15:57:31 lardman: I haven't found that - I need to look properly Dec 09 15:57:40 General: Well I have just got a DHL tracking # on it Dec 09 15:57:41 lardman: i think it spits out NMEA Dec 09 15:57:50 General: So, things do get done. Eventually. Dec 09 15:57:58 I've not looked too hard either, but if it doesn't have ARM-side processing it's not a 5300 Dec 09 15:59:23 hmm. 35 minutes with offline n900 and LTG in user mode and Dec 09 15:59:26 no lock Dec 09 15:59:31 can someone with a toolchain in front of them run strings on liblocation? Dec 09 15:59:40 fnordianslip: outside? :P Dec 09 15:59:47 fnordianslip: using the test app? Dec 09 15:59:47 ish Dec 09 15:59:52 yep LTG Dec 09 16:00:00 ah ok Dec 09 16:00:09 how many sats? Dec 09 16:00:23 0/10 Dec 09 16:00:29 fnordianslip: Got a fix in about 5 mins. Dec 09 16:00:53 fnordianslip: Inside with concrete root and window looking West. Dec 09 16:01:00 was the device offline or just GNSS mode selecetd? Dec 09 16:01:11 fnordianslip: Just GNSS selected. Dec 09 16:01:13 lardman: you're assuming it's not doing the processing in the phone hardware, which is possible Dec 09 16:01:19 yes indeed Dec 09 16:01:19 so it was online. ok Dec 09 16:01:27 fnordianslip: yes, it was on wifi Dec 09 16:01:52 X-Fade: ok. i have my device offline and just trying gnss method Dec 09 16:02:07 lardman: I find mention that the 5350 is used in quite a lot of other nokia devices - n95/97 Dec 09 16:02:17 would be interesting to know how much feeback the chipset gives about almanac/ephemeris downloads Dec 09 16:02:21 lardman: so it's not completely implausible Dec 09 16:02:58 * lardman looks up that chips Dec 09 16:03:00 -s Dec 09 16:03:24 lardman: err - that was meant to be the navilink 5 number. I may have gotten it wrong Dec 09 16:05:22 * SpeedEvil sighs and wants a broken n900. Dec 09 16:05:33 (in addition to my non-broken one) Dec 09 16:06:09 SpeedEvil: buy another, you might get lucky Dec 09 16:06:46 fnordianslip: My lounge is currently at 8.5C, for economy reasons. Dec 09 16:07:19 Actually - I lie. 9C. Dec 09 16:07:30 SpeedEvil: hm. it was a joke, but you have my sympathy. Dec 09 16:07:49 yeah, I know. Dec 09 16:08:18 zaheerm, indeed :) http://blogs.gnome.org/uraeus/2009/12/09/n900-arrival/ Dec 09 16:08:20 It's just frustrating to know that 5 min with a screwdriver can answer this. Dec 09 16:08:56 10 secs with a hammer Dec 09 16:08:58 LinuxCode, play.com N900 "Pre-order. | Due for release on 31/12/2009" Dec 09 16:08:59 SpeedEvil: doesn't really matter atm anyway Dec 09 16:09:01 guerby, so xmas tree or being used? Dec 09 16:09:11 SpeedEvil: as we don't have the source that would control it anyway Dec 09 16:09:11 zaheerm, no idea :) Dec 09 16:10:47 lardman: if the kernel can be rebuilt, and it works, we do. Dec 09 16:11:03 lardman: or rather - we have the source of the intermediate level which we can strace. Dec 09 16:11:07 wjt: frals: patches welcome - turns out that find-as-you-type isn't as easy as it should be (GtkTreeView allows it, but Hildon's broken it) Dec 09 16:11:49 SpeedEvil: depends if it's in the cell phone bit though Dec 09 16:11:59 what package is strings usually in? Dec 09 16:12:04 lardman: true Dec 09 16:12:27 ali1234: in the toolchain I think? Dec 09 16:12:44 well yeah but i dont want to install the whole toolchain on to the phone Dec 09 16:12:50 wow got a lock from scratch in <1m Dec 09 16:13:10 no ephemerides according to the test app, may still have had the alamanac Dec 09 16:13:30 and no connections Dec 09 16:13:37 other than the cell country Dec 09 16:14:16 <_berto_> Jaffa: find-as-you-type has been implemented recently http://maemo.gitorious.org/hildon/hildon/commit/d6768a7070a8588425d806ad9f3e5aadb863c376 Dec 09 16:14:45 ok, then disconnect and it reconnected within 10s Dec 09 16:15:11 ok, so it does cache almanac at least Dec 09 16:15:51 strings of liblocation from sdk armel target: http://pastebin.com/f2919db86 Dec 09 16:16:40 lardman: is your n900 offline? Dec 09 16:17:18 it was, yes Dec 09 16:17:48 how did it get the cell country? Dec 09 16:18:08 cell was online, wifi off, data off Dec 09 16:18:22 fnordianslip: those gconfs look interesting Dec 09 16:18:37 Stskeeps: maybe - that depends. For example, it may keep a trickle of power going to the GPS to maintain clocks and ephemeris. Dec 09 16:18:37 thanks ali1234 Dec 09 16:19:24 lardman: I put mine in Offline state, i.e. airplane mode Dec 09 16:19:38 ok, just done that, lock in 5s Dec 09 16:19:57 curiouser Dec 09 16:20:03 make it offline, wait for 3 hours then try Dec 09 16:20:06 so it seems something is cached Dec 09 16:20:10 yeah Dec 09 16:20:15 at least something yes\ Dec 09 16:22:51 Hi ! Dec 09 16:24:13 GPS bug is noisy :) Dec 09 16:24:29 good :) Dec 09 16:25:47 there should be a vote "i dont want a n900 with buggy GPS" .. just to show nokia how much sales they loose Dec 09 16:26:08 works for me Dec 09 16:26:15 cehteh, Bugzilla isn't the place for it. :) Dec 09 16:26:18 cehteh, if you want to spam, hit Talk. Dec 09 16:26:25 what's the bug? Dec 09 16:26:29 # Dec 09 16:26:41 lardman: without data connection it doesnt get a fix Dec 09 16:26:51 cehteh: does for me Dec 09 16:26:59 i agree with cehteh Dec 09 16:27:01 though with cached almanac probably Dec 09 16:27:15 lardman: yes likely Dec 09 16:27:18 nokia N900 gps is broken and unusuable due to software, not hardware. and the bug is an easy easy easy fix Dec 09 16:27:29 how so? Dec 09 16:27:34 the easy fix? Dec 09 16:27:38 but it expires the alamanc too early Dec 09 16:27:44 give me access to the gps when i leave my wlan, lardman Dec 09 16:27:59 pupnik_: I just tested it and it works Dec 09 16:27:59 some tell the GPS just shuts down too early while acquireing a fix Dec 09 16:28:09 i just tested it and it doesn't work Dec 09 16:28:10 cehteh: well that might be true Dec 09 16:28:19 but that's a problem with the location stuff not the gps then Dec 09 16:28:20 normally i would trust lardman over my own eyes, but not this time Dec 09 16:28:31 its a crappy gps chip .. ok .. but the software makes it much worse Dec 09 16:28:38 using the test app it seems to work ok with no connectivity but with a recent almanac Dec 09 16:29:33 well i want to get a fix without data connection in less than 10minutes at least .. anywhere on this planet Dec 09 16:29:49 if it can not do that this would be a showstopper Dec 09 16:29:55 cehteh: then you need to be in a place where the receiption is OK Dec 09 16:29:55 that is not necessarily possible due to the spec of the gps signal Dec 09 16:30:01 cehteh: otherwise you need to cache almanac Dec 09 16:30:51 ok lets say on 'average conditions' ... good view to the sky, 3-4 sattelites visible Dec 09 16:31:37 is it worth adding something to that bug, or is the SNR too low now? Dec 09 16:31:39 that should be given most of the time unless you are in a canyon, under heavy trees or in a city with high buildings Dec 09 16:31:56 i dont know i dont have a device yet, just seeing many people complaining Dec 09 16:32:13 when my device arrives that will be the first thing i test .. else i send it back Dec 09 16:32:32 so nokia, you have some days or perhaps weeks to fix it, heared me? :) Dec 09 16:32:37 cehteh: your loss Dec 09 16:32:37 :P Dec 09 16:32:41 lol . . . Dec 09 16:32:44 and IRC is always the best place to bitch Dec 09 16:32:46 Deal breaker! Dec 09 16:32:53 cehteh, call up Nokia Care. Dec 09 16:32:56 lost with it, lost without it :) Dec 09 16:33:03 cehteh, bitching here just irritates people who can't help you. :) Dec 09 16:33:43 hehe .. nah i think thats political .. xorAxAx bitched too .. and the more people bitch about it the more serious it will taken Dec 09 16:33:55 some nokia officals are here or? :) Dec 09 16:34:03 how long do ephemerides remain valid? Dec 09 16:34:03 cehteh, well, consider this warning #1. Dec 09 16:34:39 the gps specs/firmware isnt free .. so nothing know about or? Dec 09 16:34:49 I know everything about it Dec 09 16:34:50 spot the N900 in stores today :) Dec 09 16:35:00 well only only store has it :P Dec 09 16:35:19 cehteh: the GPS specification is freely available - that is of the signals Dec 09 16:35:44 cehteh: http://www.colorado.edu/geography/gcraft/notes/gps/gps.html Dec 09 16:35:57 SpeedEvil: i meant for the chip in the n900 not GPS signals in general Dec 09 16:36:05 ah, 2hrs for the ephemeris to get stale probably Dec 09 16:36:22 <_berto_> a galician carrier is already selling the n900 subsidized (starting from 180 eur) Dec 09 16:36:41 so we need to check for cached almanac + stale ephemeris; stale almanac + stale ephemeris Dec 09 16:36:50 cehteh: ah Dec 09 16:37:14 _berto_, how much a month and how long is contract? Dec 09 16:37:15 do people actually look at subsidies and think they're getting a phone for a third of the price? Dec 09 16:37:23 cant one do some anticipatory calculations to keep the almanac warm? instead just throw it away? Dec 09 16:37:27 pekuja, yes. Next question. Dec 09 16:37:33 pekuja: you need a contract anyway Dec 09 16:37:36 heh Dec 09 16:37:40 pekuja: so factor in the price, etc Dec 09 16:37:44 at worst it might drift and be inaccurate but thats still better than no alamac at all Dec 09 16:37:47 what do you think about an application which syncs evolution and the addressbook of the n900 on a file level? Dec 09 16:37:52 i am thinking about implementing that Dec 09 16:37:55 lardman: you do, but you can get cheaper contracts Dec 09 16:37:58 <_berto_> zaheerm: depends on the type of contract, if you want it for 180 eur it's 60 eur/month Dec 09 16:38:00 xorAxAx: rsync? :) Dec 09 16:38:03 <_berto_> which is very expensive imho Dec 09 16:38:07 _berto_, ouch Dec 09 16:38:09 lardman: usually the subsidised contract forces you to get something very expensive Dec 09 16:38:10 cehteh: not really Dec 09 16:38:20 _berto_: hah, that's a pretty bum deal Dec 09 16:38:25 xorAxAx: you dont have the device yet? Dec 09 16:38:28 <_berto_> with a 30 eur/month contract you can get it for 300 eur Dec 09 16:38:33 cehteh: no, why? Dec 09 16:38:41 just curious Dec 09 16:38:44 cehteh: but i just looked at the particular file Dec 09 16:38:51 its a bdb with vcards in it Dec 09 16:39:03 _berto_, not really a good deal :( Dec 09 16:39:08 <_berto_> zaheerm: no :( Dec 09 16:39:19 does anybody of you need a syncing solution? Dec 09 16:39:20 _berto_, in UK it is free on contract for < 60 euro/month Dec 09 16:39:28 xorAxAx, syncing of what? Dec 09 16:39:30 hmm, or i write a multisync plugin Dec 09 16:39:40 zaheerm: contacts Dec 09 16:39:45 <_berto_> yes, it should be free if you pay that much every month Dec 09 16:40:04 my contract is about 24e/month for two years with no money up front ("free" phone) Dec 09 16:40:08 <_berto_> they should even send you a box of chocolates by christmas Dec 09 16:40:11 wouldnt that be cool - a multisync plugin for osso-abook? Dec 09 16:40:17 but that doesn't really include anything Dec 09 16:40:30 I pay separately for mobile internet, calls, etc. Dec 09 16:40:36 pekuja: ouch Dec 09 16:40:50 Micha_: ouch? I don't think it's bad at all Dec 09 16:41:38 No internet/calls included in that? So you've effectively paid 576e for the phone.. Dec 09 16:41:48 Micha_: yeah. that's how much the phone costs Dec 09 16:42:02 Micha_: I doubt you can get it much cheaper in Europe Dec 09 16:42:04 hmm, or i try the syncml plugin Dec 09 16:42:05 Why lock yourself into a contract though? Dec 09 16:42:08 Micha_: when you tally the contracts Dec 09 16:42:18 Micha_: so that I get to pay the phone in two years instead of all at once Dec 09 16:42:32 it's a loan Dec 09 16:42:37 basically Dec 09 16:42:39 * Micha_ paid 82GBP, plus 40GBPpcm for 12 month, including unlimited internet, text, and 300min of calls per month Dec 09 16:42:41 pekuja: the german providers offer the n900 for 497 EUR Dec 09 16:42:51 xorAxAx: ok, that's pretty good Dec 09 16:43:03 s/providers/dealers7 Dec 09 16:43:09 s,7,/, Dec 09 16:43:14 anyways, on top of that, I'm paying 10e/month for 384kbps 3G internet Dec 09 16:43:17 well besides they can not ship because they dont have the device :) Dec 09 16:43:29 and around 7 cents a minute for calls and 7 cents a piece for SMS's Dec 09 16:43:35 lets see if i get mine before chrismas Dec 09 16:43:51 Given my expired contract was 22GBP pcm, I'm effectively paying 18GBP pcm *12 + 82 GBP for the phone ~== 300GBP for the phone Dec 09 16:43:55 cehteh: I'm hoping for that too Dec 09 16:44:05 Micha_: what's pcm? Dec 09 16:44:06 where did you order? Dec 09 16:44:18 eh .. not german .. Dec 09 16:44:19 pcm = Per Calendar Month Dec 09 16:44:24 cehteh: my operator Dec 09 16:44:25 Micha_: I see Dec 09 16:44:51 Whats the best sim only contract in theU Dec 09 16:44:53 one of the contracts that's available here now is around 60 euros a month for all phone calls, SMS's and 3G internet use you want Dec 09 16:45:01 * lardman heads home Dec 09 16:45:06 Uk I mean Dec 09 16:45:12 60 euros Dec 09 16:45:15 which is pretty sweet, but I don't need that much so I opted for a cheaper plan Dec 09 16:45:16 O_o Dec 09 16:45:21 FIQ: including the phone Dec 09 16:45:25 that's much Dec 09 16:45:30 oh Dec 09 16:45:33 FIQ: for unlimited use though Dec 09 16:45:53 I gotta go -> Dec 09 16:46:11 _berto_, wow, here is just 600 € :P Dec 09 16:46:22 * Micha_ doesn't make a lot of phonecalls. The 'standard' offer here at the Nokia store is free phone @ 35GPB pcm for 2 years. Dec 09 16:48:18 * FIQ likes the three offer in sweden and is paying around 150kr/month, unlimited phone-calling, sms (in three, 0.69kr/min and 0.69kr/sms in other networks, 6Mbit/s data plan, max 5GB use). 1 kr ~= 8 euro Dec 09 16:50:29 FIQ, mind sharing a link for that? Dec 09 16:51:16 eightlace: you mean if you have the phone? t-mobile-UK pay-as-you go. add an internet booster for 6 months - 20 quid qwith a 1G/mo fair usage. so 25 quid gets you 6.50 credit and free net. Dec 09 16:51:20 to three or the abonnemang/offer's i use? Dec 09 16:51:28 yeah Dec 09 16:51:33 k Dec 09 16:51:37 brb google Dec 09 16:56:06 ali1234: ping Dec 09 16:57:42 * fnordianslip now thinks there is something to the cache expiry theory for the N900s gps issue. after failing to get a lock with LTG in offline/UserSelected and offline/GNSS mode (for 30 mins each), i tried online/AGNSS to get a lock, then went back to offline/AGNSS and offline/GNSS, and got a lock in both modes within 2-3 mins. Dec 09 16:57:56 all in same location, near the window Dec 09 16:58:29 tre.se/templates/Sporg3_03.aspx?id=28732 - the main one Dec 09 16:58:30 About the dataplan (name = 3surf plus), seems like i cannot find it on the desktop site for same price (seems like it's for 199kr/month at the desktop site), just on the phone Dec 09 16:58:46 @ rrr__ Dec 09 16:59:10 * timeless @party Dec 09 17:01:15 Only Maemo users. . . . Dec 09 17:01:46 all party goers sitting in corner with their n900s ? Dec 09 17:02:14 afk Dec 09 17:02:22 * w00t parties with his n900 Dec 09 17:02:49 like it's 1999? Dec 09 17:06:38 slightly more geekily than that Dec 09 17:06:39 i don't lug around a crt with me after all Dec 09 17:07:49 urp Dec 09 17:07:51 'lo, Myrtti. Dec 09 17:07:52 "N900: so you don't have to lug a laptop around with you" Dec 09 17:10:55 GeneralAntilles: oink oink Dec 09 17:12:08 * Khertan think that splitting maemo irc channel was a bad idea Dec 09 17:12:24 Khertan, I think it'll be useful so long as people are careful about where they move stuff. Dec 09 17:13:09 i.e., stick to #maemo until the noise gets too high. Dec 09 17:13:23 hum... at least the most important things to do first should be splitting talk.maemo.org ... in talk.m.o and whinning.m.o Dec 09 17:13:24 :) Dec 09 17:13:24 'lo, Kathy. Dec 09 17:13:25 Khertan, yeah, and I'm nominating you to moderate whining.m.o. :P Dec 09 17:13:39 Khertan, you suck for not being at BCN, by the way. ;) Dec 09 17:14:49 does someone know whether nokia is updating default pdf reader or anyone else making their own? as of right now, it is sort of useless Dec 09 17:14:59 GeneralAntilles: i wasn't invited :) Dec 09 17:16:53 Ah, yes, could be expensive then. Dec 09 17:53:38 well, people can work out where you live if they want to stalk you Dec 09 17:53:39 hy everybody Dec 09 17:53:39 Does upgrading maemo works trough dist-upgrade or is flashing necessary? Dec 09 17:53:39 markus_: hi :-) Dec 09 17:53:39 lardman: why make it easier? Dec 09 17:53:39 Markus23, well, dist-upgrade can work depending on the repositories you have installed Dec 09 17:53:39 but it can also throw you into a reboot loop if you have bad ones. Dec 09 17:53:39 But, your binary selection there isn't appropriate. Dec 09 17:53:39 RevdKathy: you've got a proper Sky address, an IP would make life easier Dec 09 17:53:39 Upgrades are done via a metapackage in the application manager. Dec 09 17:53:39 Have I? I never noticed Dec 09 17:53:47 you try explaining anything like thsat to sly support :p Dec 09 17:54:19 well your IP is 90.206.3.200 Dec 09 17:54:23 Sky support only know how to tell you how to reboot the moem. They don't know what an IP address is :p Dec 09 17:54:33 so I guess one of those IP to locations things could work that out, etc., etc Dec 09 17:54:55 RevdKathy: yeah tech support for Sky is pretty crap :) Dec 09 17:55:07 yah the geoip databases are reasonably good Dec 09 17:55:11 lardman: or firefox location thingamajing. or fire eagle backend. or something. Dec 09 17:55:12 and for everything for that matter - TalkTalk no less crap Dec 09 17:55:20 Myrtti: exactly Dec 09 17:55:29 whois isn't much help - it suggests Amsterdam Dec 09 17:55:35 which is... less than acurate Dec 09 17:55:39 though it you try to reverse geo me, I appear to be in Brum Dec 09 17:56:09 RevdKathy, same continent arguably ;) Dec 09 17:56:17 Birmingham for the non-British Dec 09 17:56:43 wrong side of water... Though I wonder if I'm nearer Amsterdam than Brum Dec 09 17:56:59 I'm recognized to be in the correct town atleast. Dec 09 17:57:12 lardman: BTW, Firefox 3.5, Google Latitude and the iPhone URL puts me pretty exactly at both home and work using wifi triangulation on both Windows & Linux :) Dec 09 17:57:15 Myrtti: letting information slip ;) Dec 09 17:57:21 * microlith jabs Newegg with a sharp stick Dec 09 17:57:26 Jaffa: wb Dec 09 17:57:26 Ouch! maxmind is pretty accurate! Dec 09 17:57:37 Jaffa: how's Latitude working on-device for you? Dec 09 17:57:52 lardman: and you find out what my ip is, then... Dec 09 17:57:56 RevdKathy, yah we use max,mind at work for geoip blocking streams Dec 09 17:57:58 * RevdKathy starts locking the doors and windows in case of stalkers Dec 09 17:58:08 Myrtti: I'm not the stalking kind ;) Dec 09 17:58:47 lardman: sadly I've got enough of them already... Dec 09 17:59:00 lardman: It was quite cool in the bus on the way back from the airport yesterday; but there needs to be some control panel setting for whether microb geolocation should use coarse or precise accuracy in liblocation. Tootling around with the GPS on all the time doesn't appeal for the battery life; and it'd be good to have it somewhat reverse-engineered so there was a daemon updating my location occasionally and I could open an app (probably just embedding the Dec 09 17:59:07 sort of "report" vs. "rendezvous" modes. Dec 09 17:59:09 I'm open to a little stalking if you're Qt Dec 09 17:59:46 Jaffa, you at work? Dec 09 17:59:54 hmm, the wonders of TalkTalk Dec 09 18:00:08 zaheerm: ATM, yup Dec 09 18:00:11 * zaheerm spots jaffa not too far from the thames Dec 09 18:00:26 Indeed, less than 10 min walk to Tower of London Dec 09 18:01:43 lardman: "Friends list" on the map didn't work on my N900; and I dunno if the shift-double click to zoom out which works in Firefox will work on device (not tested) Dec 09 18:02:33 Jaffa: hmm, works for me Dec 09 18:02:38 Jaffa: are you online atm? Dec 09 18:03:42 19m ago you were Dec 09 18:04:12 London, just north of London Bridge Dec 09 18:04:55 on the corner of the A10 and A12?? Dec 09 18:05:13 where ?? matches 2 chars that look like 11 but are obscured by your avatar Dec 09 18:06:04 ~ping Dec 09 18:06:05 ~pong Dec 09 18:06:13 oh good, was just a bit too quiet Dec 09 18:06:20 Hehe Dec 09 18:06:27 how does one make the browser go back to normal zoom? Dec 09 18:06:54 this page is a bit flawed as you can't zoom afaict Dec 09 18:07:43 nor can you pan Dec 09 18:07:52 I guess that is actually possible on an iPhone though? Dec 09 18:07:54 anyone got one? Dec 09 18:08:06 you can PM me if you don't want to admit your shame in public ;) Dec 09 18:08:22 lardman_: what is possible? Dec 09 18:08:38 zooming and panning the Latitude page Dec 09 18:08:42 what page are you guys looking at? let me see Dec 09 18:09:03 * lardman_ looks for it in yesterday's logs Dec 09 18:09:47 oh, that's a gps app? Dec 09 18:09:58 http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=417739&postcount=59 Dec 09 18:10:08 no, webpage with location plugin Dec 09 18:10:29 ah Dec 09 18:10:49 but you'll still need a gps, so my 2g phone won't do much good :) Dec 09 18:10:57 is the plugin in e-d ? Dec 09 18:11:03 yep Dec 09 18:11:07 cheers Dec 09 18:11:15 fdv: what phone do you have? Dec 09 18:11:24 no brickey-brickey with the plugin ? Dec 09 18:11:33 no, should be fine Dec 09 18:11:37 tnx Dec 09 18:11:46 (evil cackle) Dec 09 18:11:56 lardman_: iphone 2g and n900 Dec 09 18:12:16 well will probably work on the iphone as that's what it's designed for Dec 09 18:12:26 on n900 install the plugin and open the webpage Dec 09 18:12:56 working on it :) Dec 09 18:13:06 http://googlemobile.blogspot.com/2009/07/google-latitude-now-for-iphone.html Dec 09 18:14:03 where'd you say the plugin could be found? Dec 09 18:14:21 hi Dec 09 18:14:28 fdv: extras devel Dec 09 18:14:38 oh Dec 09 18:14:40 fdv: I'll get you the url so you don't need to enable the repo Dec 09 18:14:51 lardman_: is the repo that unstable? Dec 09 18:14:52 can anyone tell me why there is still "preorder" for n900 at nokia store? Dec 09 18:15:08 fdv: not imo, but still Dec 09 18:15:11 :) Dec 09 18:15:42 http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/fremantle/free/m/maemo-geolocation/ Dec 09 18:16:41 LuciusMare: depends on what nokia store you're looking at Dec 09 18:16:49 Myrtti: europe Dec 09 18:16:56 germany,UK,Austria Dec 09 18:17:42 LuciusMare, i think because they keep running out of stock Dec 09 18:18:14 http://iphoneworld.codinghut.com/tag/google-latitude/ Dec 09 18:18:28 interesting, someone has already hacked the api on the iPhone Dec 09 18:18:58 that page needs panning and zooming, so will have to do likewise, plus to save battert Dec 09 18:19:02 battery Dec 09 18:24:12 I guess a library would be the best bet, feed it your google account info, it returns a list of your contacts and their locations Dec 09 18:24:20 with a callback for changes in location, etc Dec 09 18:24:46 that stuff is public api right? Dec 09 18:24:52 so could go into libgdata Dec 09 18:24:54 no Dec 09 18:25:02 http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World-News/Exploding-Chewing-Gum-Ukraine-Man-Killed-In-Konotop-After-Dipping-Gum-In-Unknown-Substance---Report/Article/200912215496442?lpos=World_News_First_Home_Article_Teaser_Region_7&lid=ARTICLE_15496442_Exploding_Chewing_Gum%3A_Ukraine_Man_Killed_In_Konotop_After_Dipping_Gum_In_Unknown_Substance_-_Report Dec 09 18:25:09 I need to reverse engineer it afaict Dec 09 18:26:08 oops Dec 09 18:26:46 Looks like another episode of Mythbusters Dec 09 18:27:31 lardman_, http://radar.oreilly.com/2009/05/googles-sneaky-launch-of-latitudes-location-sharing-api.html Dec 09 18:27:44 do we know if the uSD port is SDIO-enabled? Dec 09 18:28:13 zaheerm: saw that, but only allows you to lookup your own location afaict Dec 09 18:28:37 lardman_, ah ok, so a little less useful Dec 09 18:28:42 back to preorder at shops,i dont think so Dec 09 18:28:48 availibility is coming soon Dec 09 18:28:51 not out of stock Dec 09 18:29:07 not useful at all, though I had the same good thoughts to begin with, as we already know our lat/lon, so no need for Google to tell us Dec 09 18:31:35 crashanddie: are you down under yet? Dec 09 18:32:15 Jaffa: nope, still in California Dec 09 18:32:31 lardman_: on desktop on that page you can zoom in with double-click and zoom out with shift-double click. I guess, you'll have to disable the pan mode using the left toggle button Dec 09 18:32:35 crashanddie: nice? Dec 09 18:34:23 Can I use my N900 as a remote controller for my PC via WiFi or internet? Dec 09 18:34:35 used to this functionality on my older devices so just wondering Dec 09 18:34:48 bluemaemo? Dec 09 18:35:07 red: vnc for example Dec 09 18:35:17 depends what you mean Dec 09 18:35:19 bluemamo is bluetooth? Dec 09 18:35:26 well for example mousecursor controlling Dec 09 18:35:28 or sending keystrokes Dec 09 18:35:35 vnc is what you need then Dec 09 18:35:37 or rdesktop Dec 09 18:35:39 vnc oughta work adequatly Dec 09 18:35:47 but could be horrible performancewise dno :p Dec 09 18:35:48 theres both vnc or rdesktop Dec 09 18:35:54 oki, ill dig into it Dec 09 18:35:55 its ok if you have a fast wlan Dec 09 18:36:20 3.6mbps gprs or wlan as fast as n900 can deliver Dec 09 18:37:06 Jaffa: thanks Dec 09 18:37:37 still think something not tired to a webpage is a better bet though really, from a power saving point of view if nothing else Dec 09 18:38:07 lardman_: agreed Dec 09 18:38:21 stupid adsl Dec 09 18:38:22 Jaffa: cold Dec 09 18:38:25 good news: seems to be doing wifi triangulation on N900 too Dec 09 18:38:35 Jaffa: appears to be one of the coldest winters in years Dec 09 18:38:52 lardman_: perhaps just range and bearing would do Dec 09 18:38:53 mooo Dec 09 18:38:58 lizardo, hey Dec 09 18:39:02 lardman: Ok, I tried that location test app Dec 09 18:39:09 lardman: Got interesting results. Dec 09 18:39:16 RST38h: worth getting? Dec 09 18:39:26 fnordianslip: they will return lat/lon Dec 09 18:39:29 Status area had it as "general", but showing me pretty precisely at euston Dec 09 18:39:32 RST38h: go on Dec 09 18:39:33 jrocha: hi Dec 09 18:39:35 ladman: Looks like gps stuff itself is not to blame. It does get a fix, after a while, even in offline mode Dec 09 18:39:41 lardman: BUT Dec 09 18:39:55 lizardo, I got a doubt about packaging a Python app Dec 09 18:40:34 lardman: Ovi Maps. It starts gettng location, GPS icon starts flashing, then after about 40-100 seconds, Ovi Maps shuts GPS down, asks for an uplink (continue in offline mode? yes/no) and initializes GPS again Dec 09 18:40:54 lardman: Of course, if you are flipping the gps like crazy every minute or two, it will NEVER get a fix Dec 09 18:40:57 lizardo, I build a deb package on SB and it will get me the tarball of the package as ...i386.tar.gz Dec 09 18:41:05 Will have to try with Maemo Mapper though Dec 09 18:41:23 lizardo, and the build dependencies I have for it are only available on i386 target (python-runtime) Dec 09 18:41:26 RST38h: ok, so that's ovi maps' fault not liblocation's then? Dec 09 18:41:29 or eCoach for that matter Dec 09 18:41:38 lardman: Looks so to me, at the moment Dec 09 18:41:42 jrocha: are you on a x86 or armel target ? Dec 09 18:41:46 lardman: Needs more testing with other GPS apps though Dec 09 18:41:47 Ovi Maps really is a pile of shite Dec 09 18:41:47 lizardo, but I would like the tarball to be arch independent Dec 09 18:41:53 on the X86 Dec 09 18:41:57 * lardman_ considers adding that to the bugtracker Dec 09 18:42:07 lardman: I had that idea long ago Dec 09 18:42:09 RST38h: ok Dec 09 18:42:21 jrocha: BTW, you should not depend on the "python-runtime" package ... it is a meta-package to be installed by developers, not to be used on debian/control Dec 09 18:42:21 well yeah, just extra confirmation ;) Dec 09 18:42:23 lardman: There is really no right way to file Ovi Maps bugs Dec 09 18:42:30 lardman: Other than "It sucks." Dec 09 18:42:39 dpkg --remove Dec 09 18:42:41 jrocha: in that case you should use "Architecture: all" on debian/control Dec 09 18:42:42 hmm, lizardo I used it for builde-dep only Dec 09 18:43:10 jrocha: even so, I'd suggest you depend only on the Python packages you really use Dec 09 18:43:32 lizardo, I got Architecture: all in debian/control Dec 09 18:43:39 I need a Windows app which will sniff tcp/ip data and allow me to filter by process, any ideas? Dec 09 18:43:41 lizardo, okay Dec 09 18:44:11 lizardo, I noticed hermes or gpodder (don't recall which exactly) also had it that way Dec 09 18:44:11 jrocha: are you sure it is not "Architecture: any" because "all" should generate a *_all.deb package, not a *_i386.deb one Dec 09 18:44:34 GeneralAntilles: did you ever try bluemaemo with your mac? Dec 09 18:44:39 GeneralAntilles: can't seem to get it to work Dec 09 18:44:42 jrocha: yes, I still need to notify the packages that do this :) it is some old habit from Diablo times, I suppose Dec 09 18:44:53 lardman_ Open Ports to see which stream are for which process, and Wireshark Dec 09 18:45:07 hello all, could someone help me with an issue installing the SDK on Ubuntu? Dec 09 18:45:10 lizardo, I get a all.deb package but I get a i386 tarball Dec 09 18:45:19 "Architecture: all" copied+pasted Dec 09 18:45:29 wireshark, ok Dec 09 18:45:36 after i login to scratchbox, i and run af-sb-init.sh I get "command not found" Dec 09 18:45:46 I ran the gui installer from the nokia site Dec 09 18:45:58 i manually installed the nokia binaries using apt-get install mameo-explicit Dec 09 18:46:01 lardman_: there's an app for Win called "Open Ports" Dec 09 18:46:02 jrocha: but you know that having "python-runtime" on Build-Depends (or any other python-* dependency) does not guarantee that the Dependency will be available at run-time , right ? the Depends: field will not contain any python-* dependencies that you defined only on Build-Depends Dec 09 18:46:31 jrocha: which parameters you pass to dpkg-buildpackage to generate the packages ? Dec 09 18:47:00 jrocha: that's really strange, I always get a .orig.tar.gz+.diff.gz or .tar.gz package only... Dec 09 18:47:12 -us -uc -rfakeroot Dec 09 18:47:56 fnordianslip: can I have more than one filter at a time? Dec 09 18:48:00 -us -uc -rfakeroot Dec 09 18:48:04 jrocha: well, that's really weird, I never seen Debian packages generating some .i386.tar.gz ... Dec 09 18:48:05 ups Dec 09 18:48:06 wireshark doesn't seem to record the process name Dec 09 18:48:17 well, i does for me :D Dec 09 18:48:32 jrocha: maybe something you put on your debian/control ? Dec 09 18:48:45 lardman_: in wireshark - like "tcp.port eq 80 and udp.port eq 2000" Dec 09 18:49:12 ok cool Dec 09 18:49:14 thanks Dec 09 18:49:34 lizardo, http://gitorious.org/seriesfinale/seriesfinale/blobs/master/debian/control Dec 09 18:49:54 lardman_, there's even a convenient UI for filter setup Dec 09 18:50:08 lizardo, so, for build-depends maybe only python2.5 is enough? Dec 09 18:50:17 GAN900: ? Dec 09 18:50:18 jrocha: I suppose you are using sb1 and not sb2 , right ? Dec 09 18:50:20 yeah, couldn't see how to join filters though, but if "and" works that's fine Dec 09 18:50:25 SB2 Dec 09 18:50:38 lardman_: how's Qt? Dec 09 18:51:12 crashanddie: progressing slowly Dec 09 18:51:26 the important word being "Progress" Dec 09 18:51:31 lardman_: i might have meant "or" thinking about it Dec 09 18:51:32 yep Dec 09 18:51:43 nah, have started writing code Dec 09 18:51:43 DocScrutinizer51: "convenient" might be overstating it a little ;) Dec 09 18:51:52 k Dec 09 18:51:59 trying to work out how to encapsulate everything in these funny things called classes Dec 09 18:52:03 jrocha: yes, either "Depends: python (>= 2.5)" or "Depends: python2.5" (if you also target Diablo) Dec 09 18:52:11 Latitude on N900 is doing a good job of my journey home Dec 09 18:52:16 jrocha: s/Depends/Build-Depends/ Dec 09 18:52:21 ups yes, that's what I meant :) Dec 09 18:52:28 lizardo: get him to specify the optified version ;) Dec 09 18:52:30 * lardman_ logs on to check Dec 09 18:52:41 * Jaffa is going to in his next Hermes build Dec 09 18:53:08 lizardo, ok, I'll check if I get arm.tar.gz on arm target Dec 09 18:53:18 Jaffa: that's not really necessary... the optified version is already in testing, there is nothing mor ewe can do to push it further :) Dec 09 18:53:20 anyone? Dec 09 18:53:23 Jaffa: Berkhamstead? Dec 09 18:53:31 s/a// Dec 09 18:53:32 lardman_ meant: Jffa: Berkhamstead? Dec 09 18:53:39 no he didn't Dec 09 18:53:52 Jaffa: actually the "how to push non-user/* package updates to the user" issue is still open Dec 09 18:54:01 where can i find the source packages for the packages on repository.maemo.org ? Dec 09 18:54:18 and "make all packages depend on specific versions of packages" is not a good solution IMHO :) Dec 09 18:54:39 is there any widely accepted best practice to avoid /fs cramming ewhile installing all kinda devel-foo? like e.g. moving /usr Dec 09 18:54:41 lizardo: >= is possibly good enough Dec 09 18:54:46 The correct solution, obviously, is to put everything in user/*. Dec 09 18:55:10 lizardo, ... I'm sorry I told you i386.tar.gz... it is the .changes that have the arch attached Dec 09 18:55:14 Has anyone tested user/hidden with the shipping Fremantle HAM? Dec 09 18:55:30 jrocha: in that case this is no problem at all Dec 09 18:55:38 lardman_: sounds about right Dec 09 18:55:48 jrocha: you don't want a arch attached to it , use the -S option Dec 09 18:55:53 jrocha: and -sa Dec 09 18:56:00 Jaffa: Aldbury now Dec 09 18:56:07 jrocha: in short : dpkg-buildpackage -us -uc -rfakeroot -sa -S Dec 09 18:56:24 jrocha: (I think this is the recommended command for extras-devel uploads) Dec 09 18:56:42 No, that's not the one in the docs. Dec 09 18:56:49 lizardo, ok, my problem is just that I uploaded it to extras devel and it built it to me for 'maemo-fremantle-i386-extras-devel' target Dec 09 18:56:58 ok Dec 09 18:57:22 jrocha: but not the "-S" will build only the source package :) Dec 09 18:57:33 lardman_: exciting my train journey, isn't it? Dec 09 18:57:37 lol Dec 09 18:57:45 but nice it works ;) Dec 09 18:58:42 Jaffa, you live in herts? Dec 09 18:58:49 right, going to do some tcp sniffing so will shutdown to avoid too much extra noise Dec 09 18:58:50 bbiab Dec 09 18:59:18 tcp sniffing? Sounds... deadly Dec 09 18:59:41 where to find the source of the lirc package? Dec 09 19:00:09 lizardo, -sa will still give me i386.changes Dec 09 19:00:10 can't get good glue anymore Dec 09 19:00:25 Each American Consumed 34 Gigabytes Per Day In '08 Dec 09 19:00:34 <|R> awkward amount Dec 09 19:00:35 of what? burgers? Dec 09 19:00:39 lizardo, using -S gives me ...-source.changes Dec 09 19:00:40 In the absence of glue, try whiteboard parker pens Dec 09 19:00:43 porn! Dec 09 19:00:49 <|R> only? Dec 09 19:00:49 <|R> :P Dec 09 19:00:51 zaheerm: no, I'm still going Dec 09 19:00:53 RevdKathy, nah, tcp is considered one of the more soft recreational drugs Dec 09 19:01:00 well, some advertising too Dec 09 19:01:06 you're thinking of pcp Dec 09 19:01:06 Jaffa, long commute, then :) Dec 09 19:01:19 tcp is an antiseptic. It would do nothing for you! Dec 09 19:01:20 jrocha: yes, it's because it builds the binaries... it will always append the arch where the package was build, even if all packages in debian/control are Arch: all Dec 09 19:01:32 jrocha: the -S will append only _source.changes Dec 09 19:01:36 lizardo, I see Dec 09 19:01:38 And PCP is what koalas getting high on? Dec 09 19:01:52 jrocha: but I'm not sure why that's a problem :) you don't need to distribute the .changes file anyway Dec 09 19:01:53 lizardo, I'm obviously a noob on deb pkg generation Dec 09 19:02:13 * RST38h throws more wood on the bug 5337 fire Dec 09 19:02:14 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5337 Can't get GPS lock without network connection Dec 09 19:02:18 zaheerm: 90mins door-to-door Dec 09 19:02:32 jrocha: the changes file is only required for uploading to extras-devel, and for that you must use "-sa -S" AFAIK Dec 09 19:02:34 Jaffa, ok that's not too bad Dec 09 19:02:50 my commute tomorrow will be like 4 hours door to door Dec 09 19:02:58 lizardo, it's just that I scped the changes, tar.gz and dsc to extras devel and its build says at some point: [2009-12-09 18:10:26] Building seriesfinale 0.1-1 for target 'maemo-fremantle-i386-extras-devel' Dec 09 19:03:30 jrocha: yes, that's just the name of the sbox target on the autobuilder machine Dec 09 19:03:44 jrocha: but given the package is Arch: all, it builds only on i386 Dec 09 19:03:58 jrocha: because the package generated there is also installable on the armel target Dec 09 19:04:22 lizardo, so the package will be available on armel as well in the end Dec 09 19:04:26 jrocha: if you had any Arch: any packages in debian/control, it would build on both targets Dec 09 19:04:31 jrocha: yes ;) Dec 09 19:04:43 c'mon devels. I'm probably not the only one with / at 93%. How to tackle that? Dec 09 19:04:58 jrocha: it would not be available only if you used Arch: i386 specifically Dec 09 19:05:02 lizardo, oh! nice then :D ... and I've been wasting your time.. Dec 09 19:05:15 jrocha: no prob :) Dec 09 19:05:17 DocScrutinizer51: Re-flash. Dec 09 19:05:22 bah Dec 09 19:05:55 want to get even more tools on the device - not reset to default Dec 09 19:06:08 lizardo, so the recommended way is to have Arch: all on debian/control and build it using -sa -S, hence uploading the ....-source.changes to extras devel? Dec 09 19:06:13 chroot! Dec 09 19:06:33 * SpeedEvil wants a nice 3GB package of all possible tools in a chroot. Dec 09 19:06:39 SpeedEvil, duh. sounds like overkill... Dec 09 19:06:57 bu then. it has charming aspects Dec 09 19:07:14 gcc/gdb/firefox/xephem/quake/... Dec 09 19:08:06 hai thar Dec 09 19:08:40 so nobody did a simple move of /usr and /var so far? Dec 09 19:10:04 it isn't necessary to move anything Dec 09 19:10:46 ali1234, please toss a better procedure then Dec 09 19:11:21 um, install whatever you want to a loopback filesystem, mount it, path it, that's it Dec 09 19:11:33 lardman, Jaffa, Stskeeps, SpeedEvil: Take a look here: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5337#c74 Dec 09 19:11:35 Bug 5337: Can't get GPS lock without network connection Dec 09 19:12:28 jrocha: AFAIK , yes Dec 09 19:12:40 lizardo, ok, thanks Dec 09 19:12:51 jrocha: as long as your package is readlly architecture independent (i.e. does not compile anything) :) Dec 09 19:13:04 RST38h: good job investigating Dec 09 19:13:20 Stskeeps: Seems to be OVI MAPS Dec 09 19:13:24 lizardo, ok, thank you for the help Dec 09 19:13:51 RST38h: please state what mode you used in LTG Dec 09 19:13:56 GNSS/etc Dec 09 19:13:56 RST38h: I saw something that looked like that with something else... Dec 09 19:14:00 RST38h: ah Dec 09 19:14:07 RST38h: gpsjinni was doing that too Dec 09 19:14:09 Stskeeps: defaults Dec 09 19:14:09 ali1234, thanks. but that doesn't disclose its's advantages in everyday use to me' compared to moving /usr Dec 09 19:14:13 RST38h: the shut down the GPS thing Dec 09 19:14:29 RST38h: looks good Dec 09 19:14:33 DocScrutinizer the advantage is you don't have to more /usr and potentially screw the device in the process Dec 09 19:14:46 Jaffa: Of course if it is OVI MAPS, Maemo Mapper is our only hope Dec 09 19:14:54 RST38h: i suspect ovi maps wants cellid - it went totally crazy once and mixed cellid and gps input Dec 09 19:14:58 There is no way anyone is gonna fix THAT pile of fecal substance Dec 09 19:15:01 if you don't mind that nobody else has tried it, and you might mess it up, then feel free to choose the difficult option Dec 09 19:15:19 "Mostly, nobody knows I'm drunk until I've decided to use shared libs in a taste test" Dec 09 19:15:22 Stskeeps: Once you have Location Testing thingie keep GPS up, OVI MAPS works :) Dec 09 19:15:30 RST38h: GPXview is a quite nice map viewer Dec 09 19:15:31 hehe Dec 09 19:15:51 RST38h: also seemed to keep gps location fix up - gpxview - IIRC Dec 09 19:16:20 yayp nearly home Dec 09 19:17:52 RST38h, first two screens of vulture's eye are a bit off the screen Dec 09 19:17:53 Stskeeps, Jaffa, SpeedEvil: There is one more possible cause for this problem Dec 09 19:18:02 * VDVsx gonna thumb down :D Dec 09 19:18:03 VDVsx: They are made for a bigger screen Dec 09 19:18:06 RST38h: The pope? Dec 09 19:18:09 * VDVsx is kidding :P Dec 09 19:18:18 RST38h: The illuminati? Dec 09 19:18:19 RST38h, resize them Dec 09 19:18:31 Stskeeps, Jaffa, SpeedEvil: Consider a situation where OVI MAPS DOES NOT forcibly shut GPS down Dec 09 19:18:50 RST38h: yeah - I was wondering if it was a somewhat lower level library Dec 09 19:18:58 Intead it simply stops using GPS and the GPS subsystem shuts GPS down, rather than keep it up for another few minutes in the hopes that someone may need it Dec 09 19:19:00 RST38h: shutting down the gps as it confused idle with no fix Dec 09 19:19:12 RST38h, the bugtracker points to tmo, lol Dec 09 19:19:13 anybody knows how to set up a dualboot system on n900? (only bootloader) Dec 09 19:19:23 RST38h: 'shutdown if nobodies got a position report in 1 min' Dec 09 19:19:26 DocScrutinizer51: rootfs or kernel? Dec 09 19:19:28 Given how expensive it is to reacquire them damn lock, GPS should be kept up for at least a few minutes when it is unused Dec 09 19:19:37 RST38h: meh Dec 09 19:19:40 VDVsx: No shit Sherlock :) Dec 09 19:20:03 VDVsx: I really had no idea where to direct bug reports Dec 09 19:20:11 Stskeeps, mostly rootfs. wouldn't mind kernel as well Dec 09 19:20:11 VDVsx: Don't think Clive has a forum Dec 09 19:20:11 RST38h: I meant today to get an oscilloscope hooked to measure the instantaneous current. So I can see how expensive exactly a packet is over GPRS and 3G and ... Dec 09 19:20:17 RST38h, well, at least it should point to a specific thread Dec 09 19:20:19 RST38h: but feeling horrible today Dec 09 19:20:26 VDVsx: Probably, yes Dec 09 19:20:40 VDVsx: If you feel like adjusting the graphics and icons, please do Dec 09 19:20:42 RST38h: also good for gps of course Dec 09 19:21:00 VDVsx: Send the resulting data to me *and* javispedro who is trying to get it through autobuilder Dec 09 19:21:00 DocScrutinizer51: had a n810 with bootmenu? Dec 09 19:21:15 no :-S Dec 09 19:21:32 SpeedEvil: How expensive in terms of TMobile/ATT exec time? :) Dec 09 19:21:38 RST38h, bugtracker and the first two screens, nothing else Dec 09 19:21:43 works fine so far Dec 09 19:21:49 RST38h: :) Dec 09 19:21:53 DocScrutinizer51: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=372885&postcount=22 Dec 09 19:21:59 VDVsx: Feel free to fix the screens (/opt/vultures/graphics) Dec 09 19:22:15 * VDVsx installs braek 0_0 Dec 09 19:22:25 Stskeeps, tnx for ptr Dec 09 19:22:32 DocScrutinizer51: 'tis my job Dec 09 19:22:32 :P Dec 09 19:22:46 RST38h: I was more thinking of how many millijoules a 64/512/4096 byte packet takes over 3g/gprs/wifi, and what the breakdowns are of data quantity/latency Dec 09 19:22:49 SpeedEvil: I remember overhearing that one minute of a transatlantic phone call cost AT&T about $.02 7 years ago Dec 09 19:23:00 SpeedEvil: Also, AT&T owned the damn cable Dec 09 19:23:19 SpeedEvil: So, we are takling about 500%+ margins here Dec 09 19:23:34 RST38h: oh I believe it Dec 09 19:23:56 RST38h: It's also misleadin if you odn't count amortisation of the cost of the cable, and replacement cable funding of course. Dec 09 19:25:08 SpeedEvil: don't forget bluetooth too, in your comparison Dec 09 19:25:22 how does the include line has to look like? "#include "SDL/SDL.h" seems not to work Dec 09 19:25:37 fnordianslip: true. I don't happen to have a bluetooth pan device setup - I suppose a mouse would work Dec 09 19:26:00 Stskeeps: the bootmenu is post kernel though right? Dec 09 19:26:13 SpeedEvil: I think it has all been included Dec 09 19:26:28 SpeedEvil: not ideal though. still, what you propose is interesting enough Dec 09 19:26:47 SpeedEvil: $.02/min was a bulk rate at which AT&T sold minutes to other companies Dec 09 19:26:50 ali1234: yes, kexec is broken Dec 09 19:27:19 are there public docs on how to build a flashing jig yet? Dec 09 19:27:31 (for n900 or n800) Dec 09 19:27:45 n800 or n810 had some.. Dec 09 19:29:05 SpeedEvil, Ws/byte. A nice evaluation :-) Dec 09 19:29:10 Meanwhile, in the less known bug... https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2501 Dec 09 19:29:11 \ Dec 09 19:29:11 Bug 2501: Hardware keyboard doesn't switch Input language when pressing Ctrl+Space Dec 09 19:30:25 hi all Dec 09 19:31:05 ersin: did you by chance put the glib and so on stuff in extras-devel? :P Dec 09 19:31:14 does anyone know if there's anything bad about disabling the hw watchdog? a lot of people seem to complain about random reboots Dec 09 19:31:21 stskeeps: YES! i'm so, so sorry about that Dec 09 19:31:32 ersin: hehe, next time it's better to set up your own repo :) Dec 09 19:31:32 i got an e-mail from x-fade Dec 09 19:31:41 or dpkg -i stuff manually Dec 09 19:31:49 stskeeps: absolutely, i don't know what i was thinking, i just got caught up in it all Dec 09 19:32:00 ersin: they'll just get random freezes instead of random reboots :P Dec 09 19:32:18 ali1234: oh...lol Dec 09 19:32:40 i mean it's unlikely that the system will unfreeze if it freezes long enough to trip the watchdog Dec 09 19:32:47 possible... but unlikely Dec 09 19:33:22 random reboots might be caused by filled rootfs and any write() failing/blocking Dec 09 19:33:24 No, it's fairly likely. Dec 09 19:33:33 What's unlike is that the user cares enough to wait for it. Dec 09 19:33:35 stskeeps: i was thinking about starting a thread on talk.maemo.org for sharing some adhoc builds of mer/fremantle packages ported to diablo, i'm sure lots of people would like to try if there were just a set of easy links (lots of disclaimers of course) Dec 09 19:33:42 *unlikely Dec 09 19:33:46 ersin: talk to the community SSU guys Dec 09 19:33:49 they might be interestes Dec 09 19:33:49 d Dec 09 19:34:03 ali1234: no but there's plenty of times when it will just reboot for no reason Dec 09 19:34:08 I was able to make my N810 trip the watchdog fairly easily just by swapping too much. Dec 09 19:34:17 And I was usually happy when it did. Dec 09 19:34:18 ali1234: like when using easy debian openoffice Dec 09 19:34:25 that's kind of ... bad Dec 09 19:34:37 hmm, ersin... what device have you got? Dec 09 19:34:42 stskeeps: didn't realize there was a group like that, are they on irc? Dec 09 19:34:44 lbt: n800 Dec 09 19:35:13 * lbt wonders why you're not building on Mer/OBS then :) Dec 09 19:35:24 Mer is about porting fremantle stuff Dec 09 19:35:44 and provides a clean place for you to up the gtk version in your own project space Dec 09 19:36:12 lbt: well i'm getting there...my reasons for sticking to diablo in the short term are obscure but important to me Dec 09 19:36:19 yeah, np Dec 09 19:36:23 ersin: lma and SD69 Dec 09 19:36:23 somebody having a UPnP share here and running 1.2009.42-11? can you please tell me if https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6736 also happens in English? Dec 09 19:36:25 Bug 6736: Polish string too long durung UPnP browsing Dec 09 19:36:29 just trying to provide options Dec 09 19:36:29 lbt: but i am very much interested in contributing to mer, trust me it will happen =P Dec 09 19:36:42 thank you, much appreciated Dec 09 19:37:01 18:07 Dec 09 19:37:08 stskeeps: noted Dec 09 19:37:14 Processed at Helsinki - Finland! Dec 09 19:37:43 RST38h: heh Dec 09 19:37:51 neighbours then Dec 09 19:38:02 lbt: You and my N900? :) Indeed Dec 09 19:38:46 Departed from DHL facility in Helsinki Dec 09 19:38:56 Ahhahahaha Dec 09 19:39:05 yours is leaving first! Dec 09 19:39:15 get windows keys for cheap http://bit.ly/5Tgz2X :) Dec 09 19:39:15 * Stskeeps should get that rebate at some point.. Dec 09 19:39:17 1st class Dec 09 19:39:59 still need to get a decent case Dec 09 19:40:28 * dinmin_ välter kulve Dec 09 19:40:37 yeah, and maybe a protector Dec 09 19:41:07 I ordered protector Dec 09 19:41:13 They are backordered though Dec 09 19:41:22 Meh... kurtan* Dec 09 19:41:46 meh! Dec 09 19:41:49 andre__: (upnp) no it doesn't happen for me (the text is smaller and on two lines) Dec 09 19:42:20 ali1234, thanks a lot! Dec 09 19:42:53 ZAGG has got a near perfect order tracing system Dec 09 19:42:59 * RST38h has never seen anything this good Dec 09 19:43:34 re Dec 09 19:44:28 hm Dec 09 19:44:57 so if I'm following http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo5_Final_Installation and I get to the ./maemo-sdk-install_5.0.sh Dec 09 19:45:07 ali1234: i'm confused. I can't see anything to do with upnp in Media Player, although I can see my twonky server in File Manager. how do you select a upnp share in MP? Dec 09 19:45:29 and I get IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: '/scratchbox/users/josef/targets/FREMANTLE_ARMEL.config' <-- what obvious step did I miss? Dec 09 19:45:30 fnordianslip: it just appears at the bottom of the main media player screen Dec 09 19:45:56 ali1234: er, or not in my case. hmmm Dec 09 19:46:05 upnp can be hit and miss Dec 09 19:46:12 mine appears but all the folders are empty Dec 09 19:46:19 i'm using gmediaserver Dec 09 19:46:26 file manager hots and media player misses. hmm. Dec 09 19:46:38 hits, i meant Dec 09 19:48:56 stskeeps: so for git, once i clone my own repository, i should just change the code directly and committing will keep a record of it that can be pulled by the gitorious branches? Dec 09 19:49:12 stskeeps: i.e., i don't have to worry about doing diff patches, right? Dec 09 19:49:19 right Dec 09 19:49:31 that is absolutely awesome Dec 09 19:49:34 I wonder if Pandora guys are planning to release Pandora 2 :) Dec 09 19:49:37 Stskeeps: any concise summary about bootloader, initfs, partitions etc.? (like "on power-up, bootloader is moved to ram from...") Dec 09 19:50:12 DocScrutinizer: nolo,x-loader loads a zImage from internal flash Dec 09 19:50:14 wazd, of course the major hit will be duke nukem forever 2 :D Dec 09 19:50:15 can't recall what partition Dec 09 19:50:41 Stskeeps: what's x-loader? ;-) Dec 09 19:50:51 DocScrutinizer: something magical Dec 09 19:50:54 no idea, actually Dec 09 19:50:56 lol Dec 09 19:51:03 k Dec 09 19:51:44 so first step user has any control is the content of zImage Dec 09 19:51:51 right Dec 09 19:51:56 k, thanks Dec 09 19:52:04 or at nolo, booting kernel from USB Dec 09 19:52:24 what's nolo then? Dec 09 19:52:28 bootloader Dec 09 19:52:33 Nokia Loader Dec 09 19:52:37 docscrutinizer: i found that looking at the initfs's linuxrc script is very helpful Dec 09 19:52:39 aah Dec 09 19:53:13 that's the script that's run right after the magical nokia boot stuff takes place Dec 09 19:53:26 ersin: thanks Dec 09 19:53:33 yep Dec 09 19:53:40 no initfs in n900 Dec 09 19:53:41 well Dec 09 19:53:43 hi, is there a widget for taking notes or one where i can manage my todos? (the calendar widget doesnt show me my todos) Dec 09 19:53:43 not a used one Dec 09 19:53:48 oh, my bad Dec 09 19:55:29 Stskeeps: so what's your multiboot actually doing? tweaking bootloader (guess no), or kexec, or sth even different? Dec 09 19:55:38 DocScrutinizer: starts in /sbin/preinit Dec 09 19:56:33 aah, I see. It's not for different kernels. You asked me if I need rootfs, or kernel multiboot Dec 09 19:56:37 yes Dec 09 19:56:40 it's for rootfs Dec 09 19:56:43 k, ic Dec 09 19:56:44 kernel multiboot is not possible atm :/ Dec 09 19:56:45 * andre__ confused: Are Bluetooth mice officially supported for the N900? Dec 09 19:56:53 thanks Dec 09 19:56:56 andre__, no HID Dec 09 19:57:12 VDVsx, heh. thanks :) Dec 09 19:57:22 mice/keyboard uses the same profile Dec 09 19:58:08 andre__: there's a package somewhere in devel or dunno claiming to do HID for BT though Dec 09 19:58:27 yeah, I know... Dec 09 19:58:42 just wondered if it's technically the same as with keyboards... Dec 09 19:59:51 DocScrutinizer, if your're talking about bluemaemo is the opposite, the device acts as a HID keyboard/mice Dec 09 20:00:14 andre__, yes, plus the UI that doesn't support a pointer Dec 09 20:00:21 except the browser Dec 09 20:00:27 there a BT mouse works Dec 09 20:04:36 but for keyboards there are still problems with umlauts? Dec 09 20:04:51 n900 is really great however Dec 09 20:04:56 can't await christmas :-) Dec 09 20:05:14 hmm, interesting, the location data is indeed JSON Dec 09 20:05:37 Markus23: you can't really "not await" something Dec 09 20:06:00 crashanddie: bad english? Dec 09 20:06:56 Markus23: I'm awaiting something Dec 09 20:07:04 Markus23: or, I can't wait for something Dec 09 20:07:05 ok, so I can't wait for christmas :-) Dec 09 20:07:15 thanks for correction Dec 09 20:11:09 not being able to reliably use my bt keyboard with the n900 is annoying Dec 09 20:11:38 Gadgetoid: any chance that it will be fixed? Dec 09 20:11:43 Gadgetoid: youcan use a bt keyboard with n900? Dec 09 20:11:45 lack of mouse i am kind of used to... it doesnt work well on the n810 either Dec 09 20:12:20 LuciusMare, barely... only the letter keys work Dec 09 20:12:42 mouse wont even connect Dec 09 20:13:13 and Markus23, an official fix seems unlikely... the bug raised was shot down Dec 09 20:13:47 seems like they want to sell their own bt keyboard Dec 09 20:14:02 there are some smart folks here... though... if any of them want it fixed, it will be fixed Dec 09 20:14:12 i agree markus23 Dec 09 20:14:36 makes sound business sense... and i would buy such a keyboard if it didnt suck Dec 09 20:14:56 why does it suck? Dec 09 20:15:20 although the hid profile is totally disabled... not sure how they would get onet to work without firmware changes Dec 09 20:15:45 http://vigor.sourceforge.net/screenshots/ AWSOME ITS FINALLY HERE Dec 09 20:15:52 http://vigor.sourceforge.net/ port this to maemo Dec 09 20:15:55 priority nr.1 Dec 09 20:15:58 it probably will suck... i don't think suvh a keyboard yet exists Dec 09 20:16:47 Gadgetoid: whats special about firmware changes? isn't it a dist-upgrade and reboot afterwards? Dec 09 20:17:41 i guess Markus23 but it requires a small config change either way Dec 09 20:18:17 which anyone who knows their way 'round terminal can do themselves in about 30sec **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Dec 09 20:33:20 2009 Dec 09 20:33:22 ah, cool Dec 09 20:33:23 kde4 is kde4 Dec 09 20:33:31 only based on qt Dec 09 20:33:34 hopefully maemo 5 -> maemo 6 is not kde 3 -> kde 4 all over again :D Dec 09 20:34:09 petteri, was kde3 written in gtk? Dec 09 20:34:18 lol Dec 09 20:34:20 mikhas_: what do you think :D Dec 09 20:34:21 no, KDE 3 was Qt3 Dec 09 20:34:38 which would suggest that Maemo 5 -> Maemo 6 could be far worse or far better Dec 09 20:34:45 since GTK sucks that much more than Qt3 Dec 09 20:35:09 i am also hoping to run maemo 6 on my n900 Dec 09 20:35:53 are there svn trees for maemo 6 available ? Dec 09 20:36:19 Scummer: look here: http://maemo.gitorious.org Dec 09 20:36:21 this maemo 6 for n900 is interesting question. is n900 "history" when maemo 6 is out? Dec 09 20:36:31 Scummer, maybe. if there is git2svn =) Dec 09 20:36:35 pett: ok thanks Dec 09 20:36:43 git is fine Dec 09 20:36:44 N900_fanboy: people's n810's work just fine still Dec 09 20:36:57 The N900 was a device designed specifically for maemo 5. Dec 09 20:37:02 * VDVsx 's n810 rocks!! Dec 09 20:37:32 the n900 is way to cool not to be running maemo 6 :) Dec 09 20:37:37 aeh Dec 09 20:37:48 maemo5 was designed for n900 Dec 09 20:37:50 * Stskeeps is personally looking forward to insert the first qt4.6 stuff and DUI and such and put on mer/n900 Dec 09 20:38:04 kinetic stuff yeah yeah Dec 09 20:38:15 animationframework Dec 09 20:38:17 statemachine Dec 09 20:38:20 yeah yeah Dec 09 20:38:30 heh I've already got a little python/qt4 app I wrote last year ported to maemo5 Dec 09 20:39:39 Stskeeps, you can test some of the new Qt stuff in the n900, works quite good ;) Dec 09 20:39:52 <|R> yé just got the n900 ! Dec 09 20:40:01 <|R> now, how the hell do you open the back :P Dec 09 20:40:01 VDVsx, care to upload the ported examples as .deb? Dec 09 20:40:10 just pop it open Dec 09 20:40:20 "ported", heh Dec 09 20:40:28 <|R> just pulling hard where the little line-hole is ? Dec 09 20:40:30 mikhas, which ones ? Dec 09 20:40:32 if one line can count Dec 09 20:40:33 yes Dec 09 20:40:42 oh, they all are? Dec 09 20:40:47 no sliding or anything.. just pop it Dec 09 20:41:02 * mikhas needs to check! Dec 09 20:41:02 <|R> not enought nails haha i ll get something to do a lever ;) Dec 09 20:41:14 heh when I first got my loaner, the little sticker with the instructions wasn't there Dec 09 20:41:21 so I thought the suspend/resume switch Dec 09 20:41:21 mikhas, the ones that a did based in the symbian stuff or the new ones from OpenBossa ? Dec 09 20:41:25 was a latch for the battery cover Dec 09 20:41:30 hehe.. i thought the same thing :) Dec 09 20:41:40 didn't realize it had another purpose till days later Dec 09 20:41:43 i didn't read the manual Dec 09 20:41:52 I don't think I got a manual Dec 09 20:41:55 going to go check Dec 09 20:41:56 who does afterall :) Dec 09 20:42:03 VDVsx: do you know why bluemaemo doesn't work on macs? Dec 09 20:42:22 VDVsx: if you tell me "because I don't have a mac", I"m slapping you Dec 09 20:42:23 crashanddie, did you removed the parings ? Dec 09 20:42:25 * lardman fears he has underestimated reversing the Google Latitude protocol Dec 09 20:42:34 *pairings Dec 09 20:42:39 remove them? Dec 09 20:42:48 crashanddie, yes I don't have a Mac to test Dec 09 20:42:48 should I let bluemaemo do the pairing? Dec 09 20:42:53 lardman: lol Dec 09 20:42:56 crashanddie, yes Dec 09 20:43:02 VDVsx: ok, lemme check Dec 09 20:43:03 anyone have a trunk svn modest app running? i haven't set up email yet because of the bug with the sorting Dec 09 20:43:08 crashanddie, remove them from the device and mac Dec 09 20:43:23 lardman: seems to work like a charm (latitude) :) Dec 09 20:43:27 hmm nope, no manual (I won mine at a raffle in santa clara) =D Dec 09 20:43:40 nice :) Dec 09 20:43:44 fdv: Good :) Dec 09 20:43:54 i won mine from newegg after I paid 500$ for the raffle ticket :) Dec 09 20:44:14 crashanddie, that's because a new service is adv and the system saves these stuff in a conf file for paired devices Dec 09 20:44:24 anybody know if there is a currency converter that can be used for fremantle / n900? Dec 09 20:44:51 fdv: google Dec 09 20:44:51 fdv : extras testing maybe ? Dec 09 20:45:01 fdv: 3 dollars in euros Dec 09 20:45:20 VDVsx: removed it from both -- however nothing happens after I do "Establish connection" (it pairs, but that's it) Dec 09 20:45:31 I don't know of any native apps for it yet Dec 09 20:45:34 go1dfish: well, converting currency is typically useful abroad, and roaming charges are prohibitive :) Dec 09 20:45:43 good point heh Dec 09 20:45:53 crashanddie, did it goes to the menu? Dec 09 20:45:53 VDVsx: and from the mac I only see browse and send file when looking at the N900 Dec 09 20:45:56 bluemaemo.. interesting app Dec 09 20:46:01 VDVsx: doesn't look like it Dec 09 20:46:12 gotta try that Dec 09 20:46:12 crashanddie, n900 right ? Dec 09 20:46:15 VDVsx: I only see Wait for connection, reconnect and establish connection Dec 09 20:46:18 fdv: isn't the exchange rate constanly changing though? Dec 09 20:46:22 VDVsx: correct Dec 09 20:46:36 hmm, can't see where my lat/lon is uploaded Dec 09 20:46:45 dreamer_: yeah, but if I have wifi access at the hotel, I can refresh the rates daily Dec 09 20:47:01 and they don't change *that* much ;) Dec 09 20:47:02 crashanddie, well, after the "establish connection" it should go to the menu Dec 09 20:47:10 crashanddie, any error ? Dec 09 20:47:11 write a perl script ;) Dec 09 20:47:20 VDVsx: no error -- are there logs? Dec 09 20:47:20 crossed my mind Dec 09 20:47:39 or just use the one I'm using at my pc Dec 09 20:47:55 crashanddie, after the pairing do you see a screen saying to connect to your pc ? Dec 09 20:48:01 like it yes or no ? Dec 09 20:48:33 VDVsx: nope, after pairing it just returns to the wait for connection / reconnect /establish connection screen Dec 09 20:49:02 VDVsx: on the mac the device is registered as supporting Bluez HID mouse and keyboard though Dec 09 20:49:12 crashanddie, so you're already paired or the pairing failed Dec 09 20:49:21 crashanddie, try reconnect now Dec 09 20:49:31 mm, x11vnc and n900 is really a godsend Dec 09 20:49:48 crashanddie, GAN had success with his mac Dec 09 20:50:09 VDVsx: hmm, I'll with him then Dec 09 20:50:14 see/ Dec 09 20:50:41 now bluemaemo doesn't start anymore... :/ Dec 09 20:50:41 mhh. let me ask again. i cant find the source package for the lirc package. where can i get that? Dec 09 20:50:43 crashanddie, he only removed the pairings and establish the connection Dec 09 20:51:10 keeps : openssh is the killerapp :) Dec 09 20:51:28 crashanddie, note that a pin code should be requested otherwise is there a existent pairing in one of the sides Dec 09 20:51:41 Maemo has caused this .net guy to start writing gtk code :P Dec 09 20:52:30 crashanddie, ?? Dec 09 20:52:30 VDVsx: I removed pairing from both sides; when I clicked "Establish connection" it started the pairing (I selected the mac from my N900). It then showed a PIN on both machines and asked me to confirm, I confirmed on both -- then BlueMaemo just showed the previous screen again Dec 09 20:52:40 hmm.. maybe not ssh.. but drnoksnes with wiicontrol is great for airplane rides :) Dec 09 20:53:36 i cant even find that package on repository.maemo.org/pool though i installed it from extras devel? Dec 09 20:53:43 crashanddie, never experienced that, strange, there's no code there to return to the previous screen for that stage o_0 Dec 09 20:54:05 VDVsx: I'm rebooting the N900, starting over Dec 09 20:54:14 re Dec 09 20:54:22 daniel : lirc can be used as a receiver and transmitter? Dec 09 20:54:34 transmitter Dec 09 20:54:37 Scummer: working on getting irda on n900? Dec 09 20:54:38 Scummer: bring down a plane with that wiimote? Dec 09 20:54:39 :P Dec 09 20:54:47 ;) Dec 09 20:54:52 microsoft word 2003 refuses to open abiword documents because of some idiotic url abiword inserts Dec 09 20:55:00 daniel : oh.. so universal remote control ? Dec 09 20:55:08 working on controlling a mini rc helicoper with my n900 Dec 09 20:55:22 it basicly works Dec 09 20:55:23 DanielWm: with it in the pilot seat? Dec 09 20:55:29 hmm.. i could use that for my HTPC Dec 09 20:55:34 lol really mini Dec 09 20:55:46 DanielWm: accellerometer + gps +cam + helicopter = win Dec 09 20:55:48 nice DanielWm Dec 09 20:55:59 DanielWm: the IR ones? Dec 09 20:56:01 look at quadcopters Dec 09 20:56:09 ir one yes Dec 09 20:56:12 t.m.o says .desktop for image sets goes in .images is that right? Dec 09 20:56:14 * SpeedEvil is currently doing a sillycopter. Dec 09 20:56:20 i can start it already Dec 09 20:56:20 pupnik_ don't use word then? Dec 09 20:56:31 (well - doing in the sense that it's in the middle of my stack above the orbital rocket) Dec 09 20:56:51 vectored thrust climb optimised helicopter. Dec 09 20:57:02 1-4Km altitude in 2 mins. Dec 09 20:57:13 the problem is i need the lirc source from the package used on the n900 Dec 09 20:57:29 i believe i look at the wrong place Dec 09 20:57:51 but can't find the correct one Dec 09 20:58:08 daniel: you've looked here: http://maemo.org/packages/view/lirc/ Dec 09 20:59:08 not yet. will do when home. walkinh and typing is not safe Dec 09 20:59:08 stskeeps, x11vnc hangs for me :( Dec 09 20:59:16 Gadgetoid: it's supposed to Dec 09 20:59:21 connect to your n900 IP afterwards Dec 09 20:59:30 hehe. Dec 09 20:59:30 http://funroll-loops.info/ Dec 09 20:59:43 i tried at work... will try again Dec 09 20:59:44 come back holmes! Dec 09 20:59:45 daniel : there is 0.8.4b for fremantle to be found Dec 09 20:59:56 VDVsx: there's an exception! Dec 09 21:00:18 ERROR:dbus.connection:Exception in handler for D-Bus signal... Dec 09 21:00:19 crashanddie, some someone messed with the deps :( Dec 09 21:00:22 some bug reports are weird... Does anybody else have undeletable contacts listed in his addressbook that he does not know? Or a wrong non-editable phone number under "My information"? ( https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6712 ) Dec 09 21:00:23 Bug 6712: my information has some(wrongly and strange) predefined phone numbers Dec 09 21:00:42 VDVsx: no, it's because of the name of my computer! Dec 09 21:01:01 crashanddie, eehehhe Dec 09 21:01:21 VDVsx: self.part_text_set("label_name_, self.main.current_adapter_name + " ?") (file edje/edje.c_edje.c:10210) Dec 09 21:01:24 x11vnc reminds me to put qtnx in extras-testing for fremantle Dec 09 21:01:33 andre: that's likely a per-network ID loaded on the SIM - for voicemail or price info Dec 09 21:01:43 crashanddie, lol Dec 09 21:01:55 VDVsx: UnicodeEncodeError: 'ascii' codec can't encode character u'\u2019' in position 17: ordinal not in range(128) Dec 09 21:01:57 crashanddie, so is really the name Dec 09 21:02:12 OMG Dec 09 21:02:21 SpeedEvil, aha? how does that work? Dec 09 21:02:37 VDVsx: ahaha, it's because my computer is named "Sebastian Lauwers' macbook" Dec 09 21:02:54 crashanddie uauuaahahaha Dec 09 21:03:01 andre: I've got some SIMs with numbers like 123 and stuff preprogrammed Dec 09 21:03:01 the evil space in hostname Dec 09 21:03:15 crashanddie, thanks for find this :), thats should be a problem with the edje lib ;) Dec 09 21:03:16 SpeedEvil, ah. thanks Dec 09 21:03:26 tested zeemote with snes last night. using the analog joystick as dpad doesnt feel right. it would be better suited as a mouse / pointer Dec 09 21:03:39 123 is VM for t-mobile Dec 09 21:03:45 works a treat stskeeps although i am vnced into my n900 from my n810 Dec 09 21:03:45 crashanddie, now change the name and try again :p Dec 09 21:03:59 which has a weird key repeat rate bug Dec 09 21:04:17 Gadgetoid, which one? I know of one bug report? Dec 09 21:04:28 mmaakkiinngg iitt iimmppoossssiibbllee ttoo ttyyppee Dec 09 21:05:01 andre__, when i try to type on my n900 via vnc from my n810 Dec 09 21:05:05 crashanddie, so it crash on start because of that too ? Dec 09 21:05:09 iitt ddoeoess tthhiiss Dec 09 21:05:11 *crashes Dec 09 21:06:11 VDVsx: works now Dec 09 21:06:42 crashanddie, that a big issue, because a lot of folks use ' in the PC name Dec 09 21:06:43 VDVsx: yup, basically the screen where it shows reconnect / establish connection never gets updated Dec 09 21:06:47 no error is displayed or anything Dec 09 21:06:52 VDVsx: it's the default on macs Dec 09 21:07:16 which is irritating becuase i would love to use my n900 from my n810.. i prefer the feel/keys of the latter Dec 09 21:08:40 Gadgetoid, that's a known bug, I also had it once here Dec 09 21:09:45 the onscreen keyboard works well via vnc though Dec 09 21:09:46 hmm... tcpdump would be nice to have Dec 09 21:10:00 Gadgetoid: feel free to file a new bug report in bugs.maemo.org against Desktop platform > Input methods and set Alias field to int-140547 Dec 09 21:10:19 Scummer should be extras-devel or extras-testing Dec 09 21:10:26 *looking* Dec 09 21:10:44 yep it is.. Dec 09 21:11:22 args Dec 09 21:11:30 cmake dont works in sdk+ Dec 09 21:11:32 that should make it easier to debug problems with vnc and such easier Dec 09 21:11:33 dman Dec 09 21:11:35 damn Dec 09 21:11:41 VDVsx: feature request: support portrait mode when using mouse :) Dec 09 21:14:47 woglinde: but it seams not in the maemo5 testing-devel.. seems like it's for 4.1 triying to install the .deb and see what happens Dec 09 21:16:37 VDVsx, by the way, can you drop the confirmation step from the reconnect process? Dec 09 21:17:50 any news on fixing xchat segfault? Dec 09 21:18:34 I will give anyone that fixed xchat a whole apple. Dec 09 21:18:57 hehe Dec 09 21:19:34 heh.. nice tcpdump works Dec 09 21:19:43 so seems I need dualboot to install gdb to trace xchat Dec 09 21:20:36 DocScrutinizer: why - it seems to install fine on phone Dec 09 21:20:48 (well - it's not finished instlaling yet admittedly) Dec 09 21:20:58 yeah. but root at 93 percent Dec 09 21:21:14 have you tried a reboot? Dec 09 21:21:21 It seems to free up some usually for me. Dec 09 21:21:24 not yet Dec 09 21:21:26 And I know it shouldn't Dec 09 21:21:51 k. so dualboot postponed Dec 09 21:22:42 grrrr. really reluctant to nuke my uptime Dec 09 21:22:59 * GeneralAntilles is official jetlagged. Dec 09 21:23:20 scrutinizer: why not install xchat in a dev environment and start debugging ? Dec 09 21:23:25 oh - no debugging symbols in xchat Dec 09 21:23:43 0x410524b8 in raise () from /lib/libc.so.6 Dec 09 21:23:43 0x410524b8 : cmn r0, #4096 ; 0x1000 Dec 09 21:23:48 is probably not very useful. Dec 09 21:23:54 * RevdKathy soothes General Antilles jet-lagged brow Dec 09 21:23:59 Scummer, that's the alternative. yes Dec 09 21:24:13 easier and faster too Dec 09 21:25:13 Goodnight all! Dec 09 21:25:25 SpeedEvil, there,s a whole lot on how to debug native to be found on wiki. speedred it ryesterday Dec 09 21:26:05 DocScrutinizer: If the error happens with x86 too - sure Dec 09 21:27:40 SpeedEvil, I,m not suggesting to go x86 (yet) Dec 09 21:27:48 ah Dec 09 21:27:52 so how many thousands of irc channels do I have to follow if I want news? Dec 09 21:27:56 tbh have no clue Dec 09 21:28:07 javispedro: over 9000 Dec 09 21:28:09 javispedro, all of 4. :P Dec 09 21:28:16 javispedro: #maemo is primary one, the other ones are probably side channels for intense discussion :P Dec 09 21:28:16 N900 ? Dec 09 21:28:18 :) Dec 09 21:28:22 depends on which news Dec 09 21:28:48 VDVsx: do you think it would be possible to do it the other way around? Dec 09 21:28:53 DocScrutinizer: Simply building xchat with debug syms would be the easiest option I sispect Dec 09 21:28:58 VDVsx: use HID to control the N900 from a laptop? Dec 09 21:29:09 speed: ACK Dec 09 21:29:10 I concirr! Dec 09 21:29:29 sispucion is the mother of all evil! Dec 09 21:29:29 SpeedEvil, sure Dec 09 21:29:49 crash : your u and i is swapped on your keyboard :) Dec 09 21:29:56 or get xchat-debug? Dec 09 21:30:16 daniel : ran into a lamp post or something while typing ? :) Dec 09 21:30:23 no such package Dec 09 21:30:29 hi there folks Dec 09 21:30:31 :) Dec 09 21:30:45 I am happy with "spinoffs" for specific topics -- maemo-qt, maemo-ui, etc. but maemo-devel... Dec 09 21:31:02 SpeedEvil, more like a Q than a advice? Dec 09 21:31:08 ah Dec 09 21:31:12 where can I get xchat? Dec 09 21:31:23 I could only find irssi Dec 09 21:31:23 lance: testing i think Dec 09 21:31:26 apt-get install xchat Dec 09 21:31:32 after configuring the extras-deviants repository Dec 09 21:31:40 SpeedEvil, dunno if gdb can use externally supplied symtabs Dec 09 21:31:41 deviants? Dec 09 21:31:41 yeah - texting Dec 09 21:31:49 texting lol? Dec 09 21:31:50 meh Dec 09 21:32:19 hehe Dec 09 21:33:06 Sir_Lancelot: Why would you need xhat if you have irssi? :) Dec 09 21:33:16 are there any german pay as you go sim cards with data for.. uhmm.. relatively cheap ? Dec 09 21:33:27 tschibo scummer Dec 09 21:33:40 pupnik : hmm.. ok Dec 09 21:33:40 i just researched Dec 09 21:33:42 pupnik_: But aren't those data only? Dec 09 21:33:56 i need data and phone Dec 09 21:34:00 i asked in the store and they said d5@plus voice Dec 09 21:34:09 after calling their tech folks Dec 09 21:34:14 because I didn't like much the interface of irssi, BernardV Dec 09 21:34:17 since i'm back at home for 2 weeks Dec 09 21:34:19 data plus voice Dec 09 21:34:24 * mikhas is interested ... phone + umts, flat or prepaid Dec 09 21:34:34 is there a place also with a list of repository links? Dec 09 21:34:37 I found the zoom buttons on xchat changes channels Dec 09 21:34:43 this is probably documented somewhere Dec 09 21:35:06 If i'm correct the extra's repos is: http://repository.maemo.org/extras/install/extras-devel-fremantle.install Dec 09 21:35:18 Scummer, I use O2 loop with internet-l 5GB/month Dec 09 21:35:34 5GB/month is enough.. i'm only there for 2 weeks Dec 09 21:35:45 pupnik_: Ah. The tariff details tells more :) Dec 09 21:35:54 *looking* Dec 09 21:36:11 see i want the same thing as that DocScrutinizer but in Japan :P Dec 09 21:36:25 whouah, http://repository.maemo.org/ needs an update. sigh. Dec 09 21:36:30 has been a while since Tschibo only sold coffee ;) Dec 09 21:36:44 Scummer: They still do that? >:) Dec 09 21:36:56 hehe Dec 09 21:37:43 i wore through the paint on the raised nubs on the N900 "j" and "f" keys already Dec 09 21:38:12 Scummer: if you find out (assuming you refer to DE), please let me know too :-D Dec 09 21:38:15 need to wash grit off thumbtips Dec 09 21:38:15 ooooh FSCK Dec 09 21:38:24 andre: yeah.. .de Dec 09 21:39:07 pupnik_, that's annoyance to hear :-( Dec 09 21:39:56 so its tschibofonieren instead of telefonieren... how about onanieren ? man oh man Dec 09 21:40:02 hi, I am trying to compile hello world example but no hildonmm package found, what is the name of package for it? Dec 09 21:40:17 Scummer, marketing guys on crack... Dec 09 21:40:19 no kidding Dec 09 21:40:31 pupnik_, I really hoped Nokiausea learnt from N810 Dec 09 21:40:40 hi pupnik_ ! Dec 09 21:40:54 pupnik_: have you tried drnoksnes after killing hildon-desktop? Dec 09 21:42:33 no javispedro - speedups? Dec 09 21:42:52 pupnik_: _fscking speedup_ Dec 09 21:42:54 nearly doubled Dec 09 21:42:59 reaches full speed on mario kart Dec 09 21:43:10 24 cents per MB data Dec 09 21:43:59 javispedro: and you did disable compositing? :P Dec 09 21:44:21 Stskeeps: I've still not done any real tests, ali1234 suggested that disabling compositing didn't get such an speedup Dec 09 21:44:25 javispedro: any 30 minutes today? :D Dec 09 21:44:30 disabling compositing via the WM hints has no effect on framerate, in my tests Dec 09 21:44:42 hm Dec 09 21:44:50 how about the key shortcut? Dec 09 21:44:55 very interesting result javispedro. thanks on behalf of future games Dec 09 21:44:56 it's possible i'm doing it wrong tho Dec 09 21:45:02 what is the key shortcut? Dec 09 21:45:25 btw, i'm using SDL, so had to ask SDL for the X window references - so SDL could be broken Dec 09 21:45:27 Scummer: That's still cheaper than data over SMS :) Dec 09 21:45:53 ah, that reminds me I need to check if sdl creates two x11 windows even in non fullscreen mode Dec 09 21:45:57 data over SMS... eeks.. Dec 09 21:46:18 javispedro: yeah that's what i'm thinking too Dec 09 21:46:41 although the window does behave differently when compositing is disabled. just no effect on framerate Dec 09 21:47:03 does it get drawn in the task switcher? Dec 09 21:47:10 hmm. yes Dec 09 21:47:14 then it's composited. Dec 09 21:47:19 zs, libhildonmm et al Dec 09 21:47:31 let me check that Dec 09 21:47:59 yeah, confirmed Dec 09 21:49:55 javispedro, you got a Flickr account? Dec 09 21:50:01 GeneralAntilles: yep Dec 09 21:50:36 javispedro, don't see it. Dec 09 21:50:57 GeneralAntilles: I have a y! account iirc (javispedro) Dec 09 21:51:15 no photos on flickr though Dec 09 21:51:26 hmm I used to have... Dec 09 21:51:48 either way they were some ugly palmos apps screenshots, so ... nothing of value was lost. Dec 09 21:53:09 hmm not even the transitions are disabled Dec 09 21:54:02 pupnik_, http://media.share.ovi.com/m1/st/1501/311a8277e576425991265eae09c303cd.jpg Dec 09 21:56:10 code: http://pastebin.com/m792aed26 Dec 09 21:56:51 btw, eduroam PAP'rs. please test the nokia provided .deb package in the eduroam PAP bug. Dec 09 21:57:28 actually http://share.ovi.com/media/joerg900.mymedia/joerg900.10003 Dec 09 21:58:11 hehe DocScrutinizer51 Dec 09 21:59:23 lcuk: ping Dec 09 22:01:05 DocScrutinizer: "Hmm. This file is unavailable." Dec 09 22:01:05 ~lart Windows for randomly deciding to reboot without permission Dec 09 22:01:06 * infobot frags Windows with his BFG9000 for randomly deciding to reboot without permission Dec 09 22:02:50 since I didnt find those demos instantly: http://qtlabs.openbossa.org/mobile-demos/current/maemo/ Dec 09 22:05:26 interesting Dec 09 22:05:35 AbstractW, sheesh I don't find how to share to world on ovi :-/ Dec 09 22:08:38 pupnik_, your hehe seems to indicate you were able to access the fullsize jpg ? Dec 09 22:13:07 aha.. 10 euros for a sim card at tschibo with 10euros included until 28.12 ... now I wonder, can I purchase that SIM card at a bakery with a few Bretzels together ? :) Dec 09 22:14:20 GeneralAntilles, yes, but you can accidentally choose the wrong device, there's also a autoconnect feature, disabled in this version Dec 09 22:14:37 crashanddie, you can, when nokia fix the x server Dec 09 22:14:52 VDVsx, it takes forever to connect anyway. Dec 09 22:14:58 You can just hit cancel if you pick the wrong one. Dec 09 22:15:07 ported my old GP2X demo for the N900:) http://download.hedelmae.fi/daydream/daydream_1.0.0-1_armel.deb Dec 09 22:15:45 GeneralAntilles, true, actually that's a artifact from the previous UI Dec 09 22:16:05 DocScrutinizer51: i saw thumbnail of worn spacebar Dec 09 22:16:25 VDVsx, my other suggestion is to use less photo-real icons for the function selections. Dec 09 22:16:29 Scummer: most probably in a Tchibo shop that you will find at every bigger station Dec 09 22:16:33 fragment: nice to meet u Dec 09 22:16:43 GeneralAntilles, why ? :P Dec 09 22:16:54 VDVsx, feels like they kind of overpower things. Dec 09 22:17:04 and simplifying them would make them easier to spot quickly. Dec 09 22:17:13 :D Dec 09 22:17:20 fragment: how are you drawing to screen? sdl? Dec 09 22:17:32 pupnik_: yeah, SDL Dec 09 22:17:58 pupnik_: I use it to open the window and get access to the pixel buffer. everything else is non-sdl Dec 09 22:18:34 ah, Bada shaping up Dec 09 22:18:54 fragment: uh? you still call SDL_UpdateRects or SDL_Flip? Dec 09 22:19:11 javispedro: sure Dec 09 22:19:25 ah, well, that's normal usage :) Dec 09 22:19:37 javispedro, do we know what it is yet? :P Dec 09 22:19:49 seen engadget? http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/08/samsung-teases-bada-at-event-questions-still-outnumber-answers/ Dec 09 22:20:26 javispedro, ah. Dec 09 22:20:32 and they mention "resistive multitouch" Dec 09 22:20:35 so take care. Dec 09 22:21:11 * javispedro thinks the screenshot is fugly and wm-like Dec 09 22:21:25 N900 so good for chatting/surfing, it replaced my pc for that Dec 09 22:21:35 to a degree Dec 09 22:21:44 the font reminds me of palmone's def font for the palmos Dec 09 22:22:03 I think it's actually the same, lol Dec 09 22:22:20 pupnik_: mine didnt replace it, but its certainly not a hassle for me to use the n900 to chat, like my last phone was Dec 09 22:22:29 pupnik: the keyboard is a tad small for chatting.. a BT keyboard on the other hand.. Dec 09 22:24:19 Must resist maemo-user trolls Dec 09 22:24:26 yep Dec 09 22:24:27 but then, lbt can't either. Dec 09 22:24:36 Jaffa, when did you resub? Dec 09 22:24:40 noooh Dec 09 22:24:53 bad lbt Dec 09 22:25:22 GeneralAntilles: I've never unsubscribed from -users; I just ignore most of it. Dec 09 22:25:54 But "oooh, $510 is far too expensive for an unlocked N900" annoyed me when I saw an unlocked iPhone 3GS on sale in Helsinki airport for 999eur. Turns out, they're $900 too. Dec 09 22:26:07 AbstractW: pupnik_ : http://share.ovi.com/album/joerg900.public Dec 09 22:26:18 Hehe Dec 09 22:26:44 999 euro??? Dec 09 22:26:51 holy schnikes Dec 09 22:26:56 yeah :) Dec 09 22:27:06 but people don't see after operator plans Dec 09 22:27:26 i do like the new t-mobile month to month plan Dec 09 22:27:26 Scummer, most contracts raise the price to something like +$1500 Dec 09 22:27:30 btw does anyone remember which nokia shop was selling the n900 carring case? Dec 09 22:27:32 for the iPhone Dec 09 22:27:36 VDV: yep... Dec 09 22:28:06 fullsize works now DocScrutinizer51 Dec 09 22:28:18 VDV: with contract 130$ for family plan and 100$ for month-to-month without phone.. so.. 2 year contract required +150$ for initial phone price = 600$ for a 400$ phone.. in that case mytouch3G Dec 09 22:28:20 but the think is people in the US are used to contracts Dec 09 22:28:21 dman should, better Dec 09 22:28:28 *thing is Dec 09 22:28:31 damn even Dec 09 22:28:41 VDV: was there even a choice ? Dec 09 22:28:46 VDVsx, and we don't get discounts for bringing our own phone. Dec 09 22:28:49 Scummer, true Dec 09 22:29:01 all the big companies had only 1/2 year contracts Dec 09 22:29:13 t-mobile just changed that a few month ago.. thankfully Dec 09 22:29:41 but then.. alot of things don't make sense in the US Dec 09 22:29:43 In germany its very nice I only use prepaid Dec 09 22:29:54 lbt, ahaha! thanks for that maemo-users@ posting! :-D Dec 09 22:29:56 10 euros in half a year Dec 09 22:29:58 writing checks in the 21st century... man oh man Dec 09 22:30:05 but I am not this much cellphone user Dec 09 22:30:15 VDVsx: UK too, TBH Dec 09 22:30:23 I really wonder why Mark still "cares" for maemo devices ... Dec 09 22:30:46 ah, no nokia online store has the case, they all want me to go to a physical one or place a call Dec 09 22:30:55 Anyone here herad about N900 loosing the mic? Dec 09 22:30:57 wog: in germany the cellphones were also unlocked Dec 09 22:30:59 andre__: I toned it down so much.... Dec 09 22:30:59 *heard Dec 09 22:31:04 Scummer jupp Dec 09 22:31:08 wog: at least it used to be this way 15 years ago Dec 09 22:31:12 Anyone here heard about N900 loosing the mic? Dec 09 22:31:20 lance: mine works fine Dec 09 22:31:23 scummer depends Dec 09 22:31:30 Jaffa, oh no, you guys also like contracts ? :p Dec 09 22:31:31 but you get unlocked phones as well Dec 09 22:31:33 seems like there's a couple of people who loose their mic Dec 09 22:31:41 happened to me today as well Dec 09 22:31:43 contract phones mostly are simlocked Dec 09 22:31:48 a friend of mine had to send his back Dec 09 22:31:50 Jaffa, or don't have any choice.. Dec 09 22:31:51 because of it Dec 09 22:31:58 :S Dec 09 22:31:58 Sir_Lancelot: It's a bug with the FMRadio app (most likely) Dec 09 22:32:05 Sir_Lancelot: Do you have FM Radio installed? Dec 09 22:32:09 oooh Dec 09 22:32:10 yes Dec 09 22:32:11 wog : i don't think you could get a phone subbed with a contract 15 years ago.. Dec 09 22:32:16 Ah, Mark Haury! Dec 09 22:32:21 I'd forgotten about that fellow. Dec 09 22:32:28 at least i can't remember having a choice when i bought my Siemens S10 Dec 09 22:32:32 Sir_Lancelot: Reboot. Don't use it further. Dec 09 22:32:34 Scummer 15 years ago cellphones weren't cheap anyway Dec 09 22:33:00 well... 600$ ain't cheap either :) Dec 09 22:33:06 VDVsx: Most people get devices through contracts, although there is an increasng number of "SIM only" deals, these are pitched as "keep your existing phone" rather than "buy this phone full price" Dec 09 22:33:12 Scummer right Dec 09 22:33:18 but being able to play mario world is worth it haha Dec 09 22:33:27 so this is a known issue of this app? Dec 09 22:33:34 Sir_Lancelot: Yes, there's a bug report in bugs.maemo.org Dec 09 22:33:36 Scummer you can bye a pandora soon Dec 09 22:33:41 args buy Dec 09 22:33:45 pandora ? Dec 09 22:33:52 jupp Dec 09 22:33:58 same hardware as n900 Dec 09 22:34:01 Sir_Lancelot: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6407 Dec 09 22:34:02 Bug 6407: microphone doesn't work during a call and after closing fm radio Dec 09 22:34:10 wog : never heard of it Dec 09 22:34:14 Jaffa, normal here is pre-paid sim cards, but the phones are locked Dec 09 22:34:22 scummer -> http://www.open-pandora.org/ Dec 09 22:34:25 Ah, I see he's clueless about when the N800/N810 dropped in price, too. Dec 09 22:34:29 ah.. Dec 09 22:34:32 open pandora googled it Dec 09 22:34:36 Jaffa, and you've got discounts like 100~200€ in the expensive devices Dec 09 22:34:40 thanks Jaffa Dec 09 22:34:41 ;) Dec 09 22:34:49 should a uninstall the app then? Dec 09 22:34:54 or if I don't open it Dec 09 22:34:55 Jaffa, duh!? fmradio *breaks* mic?? o.O Dec 09 22:34:55 hmm... nice.. but nothing like a N900 :) Dec 09 22:35:10 Sir_Lancelot: I saw people debugging that (I assumed) last week Dec 09 22:35:12 seems like it, Doc Dec 09 22:35:21 scummer they working hard to get it ready in the next months Dec 09 22:35:26 I installed it yesterday Dec 09 22:35:30 can't make phone calls with pandora Dec 09 22:35:31 Jaffa, or is it a sw-misconfig Dec 09 22:35:38 scummer right Dec 09 22:35:40 and I don't think it's 'break' Dec 09 22:35:41 Sir_Lancelot: Don't use it, it's not a problem Dec 09 22:35:49 Sir_Lancelot, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=35075 ? Dec 09 22:35:57 so, the Mic problem was caused by fmradio? Dec 09 22:35:57 DocScrutinizer51: The FM Radio app plays with the mixer settings. The bug contains more info and background. Dec 09 22:36:06 now give me a break. Dec 09 22:36:16 javispedro: According to qgil on #6407 it accounts for *some* of the issues. Dec 09 22:36:26 i really like the N900 for business as well... hook up the projector and run the office apps for a presentation Dec 09 22:36:28 but is the fmradio app that damages fisically the mic, or is it only SW? Dec 09 22:36:32 Not that I've read the tmo thread, as I'm still enjoying a tmo free time. Dec 09 22:36:39 Sir_Lancelot: It's s/w. That's why a reboot will sort it. Dec 09 22:36:44 hook up a wiimote for paging back and forth Dec 09 22:36:48 I do not think _that_ many tmo users' first action with their n900 is to install fmradio and receive phone calls with fmradio active. Dec 09 22:36:51 can't get any better than that :) Dec 09 22:37:04 javispedro, it's also a hardware issue. Dec 09 22:37:04 Jaffa, ok, so no hw-breakage. *ny reboot should "fix" it Dec 09 22:37:44 haha so that's why somebody couldn't hear me on phone one time Dec 09 22:37:44 hm but thats not QS Dec 09 22:37:50 hmm... i used the fmradio and had no issues with the mic yet Dec 09 22:37:57 why nobody tested fm and phonecalls Dec 09 22:38:03 thats a common usecase Dec 09 22:38:08 Scummer: read the bugreport carefully if you want to know what causes it. Dec 09 22:38:18 but is the fmradio app that damages fisically the mic, or is it only SW? Dec 09 22:38:28 ok Dec 09 22:38:32 Sir_Lancelot: it's software Dec 09 22:38:36 sorry...just read the answer Dec 09 22:38:58 woglinde, fm radio not officially supported at all Dec 09 22:38:59 GAN900 just said that it's also HW issue.. :S Dec 09 22:39:26 Sir_Lancelot: no, he meant there's also a HW issue, but it's not related to fmradio Dec 09 22:39:40 (the HW issue is the "defective mics one") Dec 09 22:39:47 No, the fm-radio does not damage the mic. Dec 09 22:39:49 so, which HW issue is that then? Dec 09 22:39:53 DocScrutinizer sorry but ... Dec 09 22:39:54 What javispedro said. Dec 09 22:40:11 Some units have shipped with broken mics. . . . Dec 09 22:40:17 there's a know issue with defective mics? Dec 09 22:41:03 there's nothing known, there's no plan, no design, no backup! Dec 09 22:41:13 fm-radio disables the mic in software because if it doesn't, it doesn't work right with the nokia headset Dec 09 22:41:51 i hope they can come up with a *working* fix this time :P Dec 09 22:42:30 are we suppose to reboot to get the mic back if the radio is a problem, or is it just a problem when using the radion ? Dec 09 22:42:35 ali1234: anything on psx? :) Dec 09 22:42:46 fm radio is a hack anyway aiui. routes audo via BT or sth Dec 09 22:42:49 zgold: did you see my psx4all video? that's the latest Dec 09 22:42:52 Sir_Lancelot: yep Dec 09 22:42:56 melmoth: IF YOU REBOOT THE MIXER SETTINGS SHOULD BE RESTORED. Dec 09 22:43:05 now the nokia stores in Chicago and New York are closing?! Baaaaaah Dec 09 22:43:07 ali1234: I didn't, can you linkit? Also, anything on publishing yhour work? Dec 09 22:43:15 Thanks jaffa, will do if people dont hear me next time i got a call :) Dec 09 22:43:37 found it Dec 09 22:43:51 melmoth, just stop using fmradio Dec 09 22:44:12 i won't get time to properly release this until after xmas Dec 09 22:44:14 ali1234: looks like you got past the crash Dec 09 22:44:21 yeah, using real bios Dec 09 22:44:28 but that gives 10% slow down too Dec 09 22:44:28 ali1234: sweet :) Dec 09 22:44:32 hmm Dec 09 22:44:43 the video is taken w/op hildon running? Dec 09 22:44:46 it mentions that is fixed....odd...seems like it's not fixed yet...at least on my phone :D Dec 09 22:44:57 zgold: video is taken with no extra hacks Dec 09 22:45:04 zgold so it's worst case Dec 09 22:45:12 ali1234: not bad then Dec 09 22:45:23 ali1234: i wonder if it runs @ full speed with other games Dec 09 22:45:33 with audio disabled and no hildon i get 50 fps Dec 09 22:45:47 oh and without stretching too Dec 09 22:46:02 this code base is 1.5 years old too Dec 09 22:46:15 hello Dec 09 22:46:17 * timeless_mbp sighs Dec 09 22:46:21 ali1234: arn't there newer versions? Dec 09 22:46:24 javispedro: ping Dec 09 22:46:27 timeless: hi Dec 09 22:46:39 zgold: yeah, but looks like zod did not release the source publicly yet Dec 09 22:46:52 brb...have to make a reboot Dec 09 22:46:53 zgold: when i get chance i'll contact him Dec 09 22:46:54 :) Dec 09 22:47:08 don't say anything importrant in the meantiem...ehehehehe Dec 09 22:47:09 :D Dec 09 22:47:11 Sir_Lancelot: if you mic worked before, it should work after a reboot. Some people (like me) ended up with hardware borked mics Dec 09 22:47:28 ali1234: i really wonder what we can do to make it run as smooth as iphone 3gs Dec 09 22:47:33 I'm gonna unistall it, just in case... Dec 09 22:47:46 don't wat to ruin the mic because of this app Dec 09 22:47:46 and were then subsequently raped by NokiaUSA Dec 09 22:47:52 zgold: get rid of hildon and pulseaudio Dec 09 22:48:03 ali1234: and compositing Dec 09 22:48:04 then it will run like iphone already Dec 09 22:48:13 Sir_Lancelot, as stated before, the fm-radio is a SOFTWARE-ONLY issue. :) Dec 09 22:48:13 zgold: no hildon = no compositing Dec 09 22:48:17 my N900 runs faster than my iphone 3g Dec 09 22:48:31 also remember iphone has lower rez Dec 09 22:48:35 ah, thats a good point Dec 09 22:48:38 nezb: but does it run psx games faster? that's what we're discussing :) Dec 09 22:48:43 oh Dec 09 22:48:45 haven't tried Dec 09 22:48:51 then, what happened that caused Klowner mic to broke? Dec 09 22:49:08 nezb: afaik i'm the only person who has :) Dec 09 22:49:13 ...who runs psx games on the iphone... with a touch screen? Dec 09 22:49:13 someone said a while ago that the phones were SHIPPED with broken mics Dec 09 22:49:31 nezb: search psx4all on youtube, loads of people do Dec 09 22:49:36 and Klowner phone mic broke during usage Dec 09 22:49:42 Apt-worker-backend is quite slow. Suggest allow multiple uninstalls to avoid wasting the users time Dec 09 22:50:29 Sir_Lancelot: that's probably just a mixer issue, mine didn't work when the phone arrived, after reboots, reflashing Dec 09 22:50:33 ali1234: can you just tar up your psx dir and email me? I may work on it a bit next week Dec 09 22:50:45 setup a garage project already Dec 09 22:50:58 ahhh...ok...not it makes sense Klowner Dec 09 22:50:59 Sir_Lancelot, he said nothing of the sort. :) Dec 09 22:51:00 I want to see the source and can't be bothered to get down to the gp2x forums again :) Dec 09 22:51:01 :) Dec 09 22:51:04 speaking of emulators, apparently the first final OpenPandora is now running: http://www.open-pandora.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=140%3Aits-real&catid=2%3Ablog&Itemid=2&lang=en Dec 09 22:51:21 but then I think they already called an earlier prototype "final", so take that for what it's worth Dec 09 22:51:21 ooh pandora! Dec 09 22:51:26 Sir_Lancelot, there are two possible failure modes here. Devices shipping with broken microphones from the factory, or devices using the fm-radio and having SOFTWARE-ONLY mixer issues. :) Dec 09 22:51:29 I think that one's an actual final device though Dec 09 22:51:33 hehe I want one Dec 09 22:51:44 but I already spent all my free money on the N900 :P Dec 09 22:51:44 understood GeneralAntilles ;) Dec 09 22:51:51 pekuja: An actually final final device? Dec 09 22:52:02 Jaffa: yeah I think it's supposedly a real final final device Dec 09 22:52:03 caption from video: "The very first video of the very first REAL Pandora. This day should go down in history." Dec 09 22:52:04 I just know 2 cases in which the phoe arrived with working mic, and then it broke Dec 09 22:52:16 nezb: This day should've gone down in history 2 years ago! ;-) Dec 09 22:52:23 Jaffa: they're not shipping yet, but that can't be far off now Dec 09 22:52:26 Sir_Lancelot: Where a reboot didn't fix it? Dec 09 22:52:27 sadly, yes ... Dec 09 22:52:32 zgold: actually it all compiles to one single binary, i could send you that. but it's tricky to use if you don't know the code Dec 09 22:52:33 yes Dec 09 22:52:36 reboot Dec 09 22:52:45 Sir_Lancelot: And did they use FM Radio? Dec 09 22:52:48 Uhm... For some reason irssi doesn't interpret return key properly from N900. Using terminal to ssh to my home computer and resume screen there. On the screen return works just fine on bash on other window, but on irssi return does nothing at all. ^J and ^M can be used to make return, but that is very clumsy. What does N900 use as return so I could bind it to work? Dec 09 22:52:49 and restoring default settings didn't fix it Dec 09 22:52:58 Phantasm: It's a screen issue. Dec 09 22:53:06 Phantasm: Press Ctrl-M as a workaround Dec 09 22:53:13 I would like an OpenPandora too, but I probably won't get one for a while, since N900 should cover a lot of my needs already Dec 09 22:53:14 zgold: if you want the source, learn2git, then you can pull my changes direct Dec 09 22:53:27 the N900 and Pandora has very similar hardware Dec 09 22:53:29 I know git =P Wheres your repo? Dec 09 22:53:29 and I don't really want to carry around a whole bunch of different devices unless I'm getting significant advantages Dec 09 22:53:37 like dual analog sticks Dec 09 22:53:39 lots of bugmail spam lately.. talk is spreading ;< Dec 09 22:53:39 they say that they didn't have FM radio installed Dec 09 22:53:41 nezb: yes, but the focus is different Dec 09 22:53:46 agreed Dec 09 22:53:50 Jaffa: Ugh.. How do I get rid of the screen issue? And enter is working just fine on the same screen session in another window of it on bash. Dec 09 22:54:00 anyway...I don't give a sh*t Dec 09 22:54:01 zgold: give me 10 minutes to push it to my repo Dec 09 22:54:10 nezb: the main differences are: N900 has a phone, OpenPandora has gaming controls. Dec 09 22:54:30 ali1234: sure Dec 09 22:54:48 Phantasm: I dunno, I've had the same issue. There's an issue for it in bugs.maemo.org, I just know the workaround Dec 09 22:55:04 Sir_Lancelot: Right, so uninstalling it is unlikely to make much difference ;-) Dec 09 22:55:25 I think I might get an OpenPandora eventually unless it flunks really badly. would be nice for playing games. of course, for just games a PSP or a DS might be better in some ways Dec 09 22:55:31 although obviously not quite the same thing Dec 09 22:55:35 exaclty Jaffa ;) Dec 09 22:55:36 ali1234: ah, so you have a git server already? Dec 09 22:56:01 one thing guys: is there a place where I can check all possible keyboard shortcuts? Dec 09 22:56:04 :) Dec 09 22:56:08 javispedro: yeah, but at the moment it only has linwizard kernels on it Dec 09 22:56:27 but i can soon chuck my psx4all branch on it Dec 09 22:56:45 psx4all might be really nice on a Pandora Dec 09 22:57:30 fremantle mplayer hangs after a few minutes playing mp3 Dec 09 22:58:21 heh, looking at the Pandora OS demo video, I have to say it looks a lot like it was thrown together from existing desktop software components Dec 09 22:59:05 I mean, it is, of course, and that's not a bad thing, but it definitely doesn't look like a friendly consumer device. :-P Dec 09 22:59:51 is there an easy way to find out what is taking all the space in my root? I have only 10mb left and cannot even install some qt library because of it.. Dec 09 23:00:06 pekuja, that's because it is and it's not. Dec 09 23:00:35 GeneralAntilles: yeah Dec 09 23:01:31 hm. I've hardly used n900 tonight but the battery use seems almost same as when I spent ahalf the night browsing tmo.. Dec 09 23:01:50 GeneralAntilles: and not that it's a bad thing per se even Dec 09 23:02:06 pillar du -sh ? Dec 09 23:02:08 n900 FTW :D Dec 09 23:02:21 melmoth: probably not going to help a lot if it's a specific program for example Dec 09 23:02:41 melmoth: since stuff is all over the place Dec 09 23:02:41 one thing guys: is there a place where I can check all possible keyboard shortcuts? Dec 09 23:03:10 I wonder wether there will be many non-emu games for n900 Dec 09 23:03:19 well, find large dir, dpkg -S files in it to see who s the culprit Dec 09 23:03:21 GeneralAntilles: I do prefer that approach to Apple's approach for example :-) Dec 09 23:03:26 melmoth I guess if I go to every directory and check it, I was hoping some parameters to list all directories and how much they take Dec 09 23:03:50 GeneralAntilles: but I'm probably in the minority. I just think it's ridiculous that iPods and iPhones can't do anything without being first plugged into iTunes Dec 09 23:04:04 well, you can do that with some shell magic, find and du together Dec 09 23:04:13 Pandora is a particularly ugly device. Dec 09 23:04:18 but usually du -sh * gives a good idea where to continue to dig in the tree Dec 09 23:05:16 GeneralAntilles: yeah, agreed Dec 09 23:05:17 solpete: hopefully, since it has opengl es games can take advantage of it Dec 09 23:05:34 GeneralAntilles: I'm sure it'll get better with time though. not that most of its users are going to care that much Dec 09 23:06:24 Its such a pity that they cant add some sort of real gaming pad :) Dec 09 23:06:46 playing supertux back on the N800 was rather hard even with its real d-pad :P Dec 09 23:06:50 melmoth ok thanks Dec 09 23:08:27 nezb its not a real gaming pad :) and where´s a b c d buttons :P Dec 09 23:08:40 What's Maemo terminology for the calling options? (Cellular/SIP/Gtalk/etc) Dec 09 23:09:06 solpete: it still beats playing on a keyboard with mapped buttons :\ Dec 09 23:09:21 rashed2020: what do you mean Dec 09 23:10:04 when I add labels in a table, how do I make the labels left-align ? Dec 09 23:10:07 hey folks. just started to play around with my n900 a few days ago, but i have a big problem with umts Dec 09 23:10:07 there are only fields for apn, user, passwd but none for number (*99# in my case) and maemo cannot establish a connection, does anybody has an idea? Dec 09 23:10:24 anyone knows a place with videos taken with a production unit? I mean more videos that whats been on tankgrl phonearena etc... Dec 09 23:10:43 than even Dec 09 23:10:54 I can shoot video if you want Dec 09 23:11:13 kelvan, that's default. you don't need to set it Dec 09 23:11:51 kelvan, if your connection fails then for other reason Dec 09 23:12:43 Jaffa: Ok, found the bug report of it. Hopefully it gets fixed sometime soon. Makes irccing from the N900 a pain in the ass. Dec 09 23:13:18 DocScrutinizer51: so i have to find another reason :-/ anyway thx Dec 09 23:13:22 irssi on the N900? Dec 09 23:13:38 nezb: its like 22.8 fps or something right? Dec 09 23:13:53 nezb: You can install it on it as well.. But X terminal, ssh, screen -rU -> irssi. Return just doesn't work normally. Dec 09 23:13:55 would you like me to check, solpete? Dec 09 23:13:59 On the phone app Dec 09 23:14:06 nezb yes please Dec 09 23:14:07 Where it lets you pic how you want to make your call Dec 09 23:14:15 Can apps add thier own option in? Dec 09 23:14:17 Phantasm, right now I am sshd to server that has irssi on it Dec 09 23:14:28 Phantasm: What's the bug#, OOI? Dec 09 23:14:40 Jaffa: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6045 https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6009 Dec 09 23:14:42 Bug 6045: ENTER key stops working in XTerm Dec 09 23:14:43 Bug 6009: "Enter" key sends wrong keycode to console applications Dec 09 23:14:51 How do I propose an App? Dec 09 23:15:30 to who? Dec 09 23:15:35 AakashPatel, that is missing in dialing a number from contacts :-( Dec 09 23:15:36 to Developers Dec 09 23:15:50 solpete: probably, the easiest way is to ask if anyone's already written it Dec 09 23:16:04 DocScrutinizer51: what do you mean Dec 09 23:16:13 then someone either says, yes, or gives you a detailed analysis of how easy it'd be Dec 09 23:16:38 (and then devolve into a flamewar over proper use of flash LEDs) Dec 09 23:16:40 I have a killer APP in mind.. I should get paid :) Dec 09 23:16:42 Well then how about this Dec 09 23:16:55 solpete: Historically, saying something like "I'm not a developer, but I think it'd be really easy for someone to develop this app which'd I'd really like..." is NOT the way to go Dec 09 23:16:56 Can an app "intercept" an outgoing phone call and get the phone number from it? Dec 09 23:17:21 AakashPatel: See what gcobb's documented at https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/wiki/index.php?CSD%20programming%20information&id=1106&type=g Dec 09 23:17:23 solpete: if your idea is worth a damn patent it. Dec 09 23:17:51 Ill tell you my APP I have in mind if you say "your cat just shitted on your carpet" Dec 09 23:18:19 anyways, ive got my own apps to write :P Dec 09 23:18:37 ideas are a dime a dozen Dec 09 23:19:18 Jaffa: what does CSD stand for? Dec 09 23:19:18 hehe Dec 09 23:19:57 carrier switched data? Dec 09 23:20:15 Cereals Strewed over Desktop Dec 09 23:20:27 Jaffa: Any idea how to change bindings on X terminal? Dec 09 23:20:35 Phantasm: nope Dec 09 23:21:27 solpete: Nokia N900 show video with format MPEG-4 (video) AAC (audio) Resolution 848x480 Bitrate 3434kb/s Framerate 30.0000001024 Dec 09 23:21:35 *shot Dec 09 23:22:36 nezb cool... In all videos i´ve seen its been really choppy and some dude claimed it was like 22.5 fps measured by software Dec 09 23:22:52 nezb perhaps you could shoot something and put it somewhere Dec 09 23:22:52 solpete: this information is from VLC player Dec 09 23:23:04 I´d like to see it Dec 09 23:23:07 solpete: I have recorded a 1 minute video to test this and it plays back very smooth Dec 09 23:23:14 cool Dec 09 23:23:15 both on N900 and on my computer Dec 09 23:23:32 I dont believe you, but I believe you think its smooth :) Dec 09 23:23:41 you don't believe me? :P Dec 09 23:24:01 I can put something on youtube if you want Dec 09 23:24:12 Jaffa: Do you happen to be able to change priority and severity settings of bug reports? I really feel that low priority and severity minor are far from the real for that bug. 6009 mainly that is. Dec 09 23:24:35 Nezb: 1.) Ive seen so many videos and all were choppy 2.) Nokia themselves state 25 fps Dec 09 23:24:53 I am only giving you the information that VLC says when I right click the MP4 file Dec 09 23:25:09 but alas, if you truly need proof I will go shoot video Dec 09 23:26:08 Jaffa: Effectively all normal people using ssh to connect to irssi will be totally unable to use irssi at all. As such it is very significant problem. And not only geeks do use irssi through SSH on phone. And the problem isn't related to screen. And as mentioned on the comments, some other programs (like vim and less) do not function properly due to the bug. Dec 09 23:26:19 Any way since noone was funny enough to point out for me that my cat shitted on my carpet, Ill be nice and tell you about my APP I had in mind anyway. I was thinking about a phone APP - APP that automatically calculates your current bill based on parameters you specified. On the "break-date" it automatically resets itself to zero again. :) Dec 09 23:26:28 nezb I think I truly need proof ... :P Dec 09 23:26:48 Phantasm: esc is meta Dec 09 23:26:53 solpete: Then I will go outside to shoot some video, be back in a bit Dec 09 23:27:06 nice t.y. Dec 09 23:27:10 pwnguin: I am well aware of that. How does that have anything to do with enter not working? Dec 09 23:27:32 Phantasm: i donno. that seems bad, i must have missed that part Dec 09 23:27:37 solpete: also, just for the record, T-mobile's website can tell me bill information based on my usage Dec 09 23:28:15 what bug makes ssh irssi unusable? I'm using it right now Dec 09 23:28:34 plr_: The bug that makes enter not to work at all on irssi from N900. Dec 09 23:28:43 nezb: yeah but perhaps an APP for that would be nice :) Dec 09 23:28:52 plr_: There is workround (^J and ^M) but not many know those. Dec 09 23:29:08 Phantasm: haven't faced that one Dec 09 23:29:08 would it be possible to control the PS3 via blu-tooth? Dec 09 23:29:22 Phantasm: it was working for me last night; anything special i need to duplicate? Dec 09 23:29:53 plr_ & pwnguin: Xterminal, ssh to another comp, screen -r to existing irssi session. Dec 09 23:30:03 i did Dec 09 23:30:05 last night Dec 09 23:30:07 worked fine Dec 09 23:30:19 solpete: I'm hoping someone does the other way around - would be nice to control n900 wit six axis Dec 09 23:30:20 Might it be related to keymap? I have scandinavian one. Dec 09 23:30:45 Phantasm: that's what I am doing right now Dec 09 23:30:49 I wonder, there are so few reviews out there of the n900 ... at least of release version Dec 09 23:30:56 although I use -drU Dec 09 23:31:01 plr but wiimote works aight? Dec 09 23:31:24 solpete: yep, but I only own ps3 :/ Dec 09 23:31:36 I use -rU (-U because of screen bug not understanding the new shorter UTF-8 locale names). Dec 09 23:31:38 but you could buy a wiimote Dec 09 23:32:07 is playing nes through tv-out with wiimote laggy? Dec 09 23:32:14 I guess yeah Dec 09 23:32:26 don't know Dec 09 23:32:54 * DocScrutinizer51 suggests a bug in host's screen or ssh ot irssi implementation Dec 09 23:32:59 how do you tell which hardware revision you have? Dec 09 23:33:11 would be cool anyway if it worked 100% ... I travel alot with work and stay at hotels .. would be nice to hook up to the hotel-tv... would be even cooler if multiplayer worked Dec 09 23:33:20 also, what happens if you type reset on the terminal? Dec 09 23:33:29 irssi+ssh works right now for me; en_us Dec 09 23:33:37 solpete: I shot video, uploading it shortly Dec 09 23:33:43 * plr_ is happy about getting qt app recognize portrait mode Dec 09 23:33:53 nezb thats cool of you Dec 09 23:33:55 not fond of the color scheme Dec 09 23:34:40 now what though, do I have to manage the turning of widgets myself.. wondering Dec 09 23:35:22 Might be that irssi version has something to do with it. I have 0.8.12 while you have either .13-rc1 or .13. Dec 09 23:35:29 nezb as thanks, I suggest you hook up on Spotify and listen to "Chang Ju-Chun - Seasonal flowers" ... Dont thank me Dec 09 23:35:55 What is Qt Dec 09 23:35:59 Phantasm: i have a way to test this theory Dec 09 23:36:39 solpete: http://qt.nokia.com Dec 09 23:36:59 actually, im surprised i have .13 Dec 09 23:37:28 BBNS ... ok its a " Cross-platform application and UI framework " ... but couldnt you just tell me the potential Dec 09 23:37:45 plr_, what you mean? Dec 09 23:38:14 yay my vikuiti screen protector arrived Dec 09 23:38:16 when in portrait mode widgets will be oriented correctly Dec 09 23:38:20 and my spare battery is shipping Dec 09 23:38:24 QT is a library that handles drawing of windows, and much more Dec 09 23:38:30 yaay. All that's missing is the n900 -.- Dec 09 23:39:05 mikhas: ok, then the setting of portrait is not working for some reason, even though the recognition is Dec 09 23:39:23 still works Dec 09 23:39:29 Hmmn. Dec 09 23:39:31 good to know that it should rotate widgets on it,s own Dec 09 23:39:56 ubuntu hardy Dec 09 23:40:09 how is the n900 keyboard? Dec 09 23:40:19 small Dec 09 23:40:20 plr_, http://pastebin.com/d62372e69 Dec 09 23:40:33 let me put it this way: QT is what KDE is built upon Dec 09 23:40:34 but that's for qt 4.6 for maemo =) Dec 09 23:40:41 but nicer to type on than the N810 one imo Dec 09 23:41:00 for 4.5 you still have to rotate using the low level API via X atoms Dec 09 23:41:08 solpete: the video is online, and also the keyboard is overrated. Dec 09 23:41:11 solpete: the top row is a bit close to the screen Dec 09 23:41:22 anyway, #qt-maemo Dec 09 23:41:29 nezb allright Dec 09 23:41:43 here is the link http://www.megaupload.com/?d=SEXYPPF2 Dec 09 23:41:49 any way to change the xterm colors? Dec 09 23:41:57 pwnguin_n900: yes Dec 09 23:42:06 it is in the settings if you tap the top of the window Dec 09 23:42:11 nezb ty Dec 09 23:42:24 plr_: you need the qt4-maemo qt for rotating feature Dec 09 23:42:25 you're welcome Dec 09 23:42:30 plr_: then you can set it with setAttribute Dec 09 23:42:36 nezb it says the file is temporarily unavvailible Dec 09 23:42:39 nezb: oh, under font. how unintuitive Dec 09 23:42:53 solpete: I just uploaded it, give it a little bit of time Dec 09 23:43:05 pwnguin: yeah some of the settings are in weird places :\ Dec 09 23:43:16 all right... I guess megaupload is checking so its no porn Dec 09 23:43:22 muuuuuuch better Dec 09 23:43:23 ;) Dec 09 23:43:52 pwnguin are you pwnguin_n900? Dec 09 23:43:59 yes Dec 09 23:44:01 solpete: yeah probably. the link is working for me now Dec 09 23:44:05 Rumour has it N900 version 1.1 will have portrait Dec 09 23:44:20 solpete: just like rumour had it iphone 3.0 would have landscape ;p Dec 09 23:44:46 pwnguin_n900: Ok.. If I directly go to my irssi machine from N900, enter works. If I go to my home server from which there is connection (existing already on screen) to the irssi box, then it doesn't work. Also if I go to the irssi box, ssh to home server and use screen there it doesn't work. Dec 09 23:45:23 Phantasm: i think you've lost me, and will continue to lose me without pictures Dec 09 23:45:27 remote desktop ...cool http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oz6GOd4q-1U Dec 09 23:46:22 yawn.. Dec 09 23:46:35 got the video now... Dec 09 23:46:36 hey! what remote desktop app is this?!?!?! Dec 09 23:46:46 pwnguin: Computer a and computer b... A has screen running and within it, there is ssh to b on which there is screen running that has irssi there. If I connect to a and screen -rU, enter won't work. If I connect to b and screen -rU, enter works. If I connect to b and ssh to a and screen -rU, enter won't work. Dec 09 23:46:50 it's amazing when compared to VNC... Dec 09 23:46:50 Sir_Lancelot oh waky waky ... hehe Dec 09 23:46:52 rdesktop? Dec 09 23:47:08 gahh stuck in traffic. damn snow. good thing i can waste time with my n900 hahaha Dec 09 23:47:25 pwnguin: And b has Debian 5.0.2 and a has newest Ubuntu LTS release. Dec 09 23:47:56 Scummer you scum. Dont irc and drive at the same time Dec 09 23:48:10 lol Dec 09 23:48:14 * DocScrutinizer51 suggests a bug in host's screen or ssh ot irssi implementation Dec 09 23:48:31 i'm not driving. i'm parked on the highway Dec 09 23:48:44 pwnguin: So, if I at any point go to the ubunty machine, enter stops working on irssi.. Dec 09 23:48:58 Phantasm: but only for n900? Dec 09 23:49:04 i moved a mile in 30 minutes Dec 09 23:49:11 What I really REALLY want, Is a gps navigation ApP for n900 Dec 09 23:49:17 solpete: uh... Dec 09 23:49:34 does ovi not count? Dec 09 23:49:34 Sygic is releasing one soon, solpete Dec 09 23:49:36 pwnguin: Yes. Dec 09 23:49:50 ubuntu sucks no matter what Dec 09 23:49:56 pwnguin: No problems with enter on any other device than with N900. Dec 09 23:50:42 nezb thanks for the vid Dec 09 23:50:44 solpete: I can not find Chang Ju-Chun - Seasonal flowers Dec 09 23:51:16 Phantasm: it sounds like you need a DD, an ubuntu dev and a maemo dev in the same room Dec 09 23:51:26 otherwise this argument will go in circles Dec 09 23:51:44 so.. I have two phone numbers here. One of them calls my archenemy while the other one calls my friend. Which one is one? Dec 09 23:51:46 nezb : wang Seasonal flowers ... sorry Dec 09 23:51:50 Same here for ubuntu 9.04 LTS with irssi Dec 09 23:52:03 BernardV: same as who? Dec 09 23:52:17 01:01 < Phantasm> pwnguin: So, if I at any point go to the ubunty machine, enter stops working on irssi.. Dec 09 23:52:21 Sir_Lancelot: but I dont want to pay 100 euro :) Dec 09 23:52:36 its you europeans Dec 09 23:52:43 and your fancy unicode Dec 09 23:52:48 :P Dec 09 23:53:04 fork() this weather Dec 09 23:53:19 solpete: can't find it on google :( Dec 09 23:53:20 solpete , what remote desktop was the video??? Dec 09 23:53:21 Scummer: you now have two winter storms Dec 09 23:53:28 nezb its on sporify Dec 09 23:53:31 pwnguin: ;P Dec 09 23:53:43 nezb search wang Seasonal flowers Dec 09 23:53:49 i know i have problems with asian characters not showing Dec 09 23:53:50 on spotify Dec 09 23:54:07 pwnguin: Your device is broken Dec 09 23:54:12 pwnguin: one ain't bad enough Dec 09 23:54:13 solpete: on ubuntu, not n900 Dec 09 23:54:37 or possibly on my hacked up NAS Dec 09 23:54:41 pwnguin: I dont believe you... its your n900 you´re just a fanboy Dec 09 23:54:51 solpete: I don't have spotify so I was looking on google Dec 09 23:55:00 solpete: but arent i an ubuntu fanboy? Dec 09 23:55:02 nezb: sorry its spotify exclusive :) Dec 09 23:55:20 pwnguin ok... perhaps... then you should install scientific linux Dec 09 23:55:40 jaffa that dbus page is great thx Dec 09 23:55:43 nezb if you dont have spotify its about time you get out of the closet Dec 09 23:55:55 :) Dec 09 23:56:02 I am in the US they don't have it here :( Dec 09 23:56:07 WHAT Dec 09 23:56:12 you dont have spotify in the US? Dec 09 23:56:17 "http://www.spotify.com/en/why-not-available/" Dec 09 23:56:27 Unfortunately, due to licensing restrictions we are not yet available in your country. Dec 09 23:56:36 HAHA... Dec 09 23:56:44 sorry... but thats US in a nutshell Dec 09 23:56:53 on the other hand Dec 09 23:56:59 we have last.fm, itunes, pandora Dec 09 23:57:03 and we dont pay a tv tax Dec 09 23:57:36 I read about that girl shooting her friends birthday inside a cinema while some movie was running. She now risks 4 years in prison... THAT ... IS ... RIDICULUS Dec 09 23:58:09 nor do we have to pay a blank media tax (like Canada) Dec 09 23:58:20 pwnguin: TV tax is good. In sweden, the money is spent on TV channels (BBC-like) that are politically neutral Dec 09 23:58:24 solpete: shooting her friends? Dec 09 23:58:29 or filming them? Dec 09 23:58:38 solpete: don't you love monopolies Dec 09 23:58:39 lardman filming them even Dec 09 23:58:43 solpete, TV is never politically neutral. Dec 09 23:58:45 np, just wondering Dec 09 23:58:49 I'm in The Netherlands and also no spotify.. but you can register with a UK proxy (or other country) and later change the country back to where you really live. Dec 09 23:58:57 solpete: so bbc isn't polically neutral? Dec 09 23:59:05 solpete , what remote desktop was the video??? Dec 09 23:59:13 GeneralAntilles well at least you could be more or less politically neutral Dec 09 23:59:21 Sir_Lancelot I have no IDEA ... Dec 09 23:59:31 ahhh Dec 09 23:59:32 ok Dec 09 23:59:32 pwnguin: the bbc isn't politically neutral, no, but it does have it's own agenda which doesn't necessarily align with government's Dec 09 23:59:35 :) Dec 09 23:59:37 lardman, for US I guess it's bee a .38 Dec 09 23:59:48 solpete, that all depends on where you define your center. Dec 10 00:00:05 or a .22 as it,s been a girl Dec 10 00:00:36 GeneralAntilles: Ok I should be so hard to judge, but what ive seen from CNN and FOX news .... Dec 10 00:00:44 shouldnt even Dec 10 00:01:14 solpete, political neutrality isn't a reality. Dec 10 00:01:25 solpete, it's a rationalization to make people feel warm and fuzzy. ;) Dec 10 00:01:34 anyways... filming a friend during a cinema friend with your digicam and risc 4 years in prison... thats crazy Dec 10 00:01:51 solpete, yes, copyright law has gotten out of hand. Dec 10 00:01:51 GeneralAntilles of course :) Its analogue Dec 10 00:01:52 how good of a job is sweedish tv doing informing the public if barack obama can win a nobel peace prize? Dec 10 00:01:57 better to take the $63,001 fine Dec 10 00:02:02 political neutrality is an antinom Dec 10 00:02:24 pwnguin, there was a story about two "Nobel prize winners" meeting to discuss climate change on the news at the airport the other day. Dec 10 00:02:31 pwnguin, it was Obama and Gore. Dec 10 00:02:34 * GeneralAntilles facepalm. Dec 10 00:02:40 pwnguin: dunno really .. last i heard today was that they were reporting why Obama doesnt want to meet the King Dec 10 00:02:55 solpete: i suggest raping someone and you might walk as a free man out of court Dec 10 00:03:18 Scummer huh Dec 10 00:03:18 :) Dec 10 00:03:30 it's definitely out of proportion Dec 10 00:04:06 dont unnerstan u Dec 10 00:04:07 :) Dec 10 00:04:16 hitler godwin this is why we can't have nice things change the subject :P Dec 10 00:04:23 life ain't worth shit in the us court system Dec 10 00:04:50 Scummer what do you mean, that you can rape someone and walk out a free man? Dec 10 00:05:03 im sure you cannot, unless there is a lack of evidence Dec 10 00:05:49 solp: meaning, the punishment doesn't fit the crime Dec 10 00:05:50 bah. US legislation sucks baseballs thru a waterhose Dec 10 00:06:05 Scummer you think the punishment os too low? Dec 10 00:06:23 DocScrutinizer51, still in favor of shooting them all out of cannons into the sun. Dec 10 00:06:58 solpete, the penalty awarded for copyright infringement is often higher than that for rape. Dec 10 00:07:04 Scummer oh I get you ... walk out as a free man raping but risking 4 years for filming inside the cinema Dec 10 00:07:09 yea Dec 10 00:07:11 solp: no, the punishment for the cinema tghimgy was way too high Dec 10 00:08:25 Also I read about some mother got fined $8000 per track someone had downloaded while "hijacking" their wireless router... Dec 10 00:08:51 I think she got personally bankrupt .... Dec 10 00:09:03 The judge claiming she was responsible for her internet connection Dec 10 00:09:29 that is not unreasonable Dec 10 00:09:47 ali1234 your too americanized :) For me its crazy Dec 10 00:09:58 come on LAPACK Dec 10 00:09:59 tell her to fix her connection and rest the case Dec 10 00:10:00 * VDVsx installed braek and now feels like a IPhone user :( Dec 10 00:10:04 someone crack the judges Wpa2 with the n900 and download some music. quick :) Dec 10 00:10:05 that,s why you need to *open up* your wifi on purpose Dec 10 00:10:47 solpete: fixing the connection = taking responsibility Dec 10 00:10:49 VDVsx: Is it in testing yet? Dec 10 00:11:04 bed time, LAPACK will have to wait 'till the morrow Dec 10 00:11:05 night all Dec 10 00:11:05 Jaffa, yes Dec 10 00:11:11 no legislation to prohibit it. And you can't be responsible for random driveby users Dec 10 00:11:26 ali1234 why should you be responsible for your internet connection? Dec 10 00:11:35 VDVsx: Cool Dec 10 00:11:56 Jaffa, not cool I had to restart my device :) Dec 10 00:12:17 solpete: why should anybody take any responsibility for anything then? Dec 10 00:12:24 VDVsx: Ah, yes. How does one stop it? Dec 10 00:12:32 zerojay, ping? Dec 10 00:12:52 Jaffa, dunno, there no way to do that atm afaik Dec 10 00:13:02 traffic is rollin again. i'm out Dec 10 00:13:21 VDVsx: X Terminal > killall braek Dec 10 00:13:27 VDVsx: Starting it again gives you another... Dec 10 00:13:36 Right. Bed time. Dec 10 00:13:43 Jaffa, yes, but lazy to do that :P Dec 10 00:13:57 Jaffa, I had four running Dec 10 00:14:03 Jaffa, gnite Dec 10 00:14:04 VDVsx: I SSHed :) Dec 10 00:14:06 g'nigt Dec 10 00:14:07 braek, funny, but needs a remove option Dec 10 00:14:11 er... Dec 10 00:14:26 I see you suggested that already :) Dec 10 00:14:35 In sweden there are 9 million citizens. A recent study showed that 2 million downloaded "illegally" at least once during the last year. In numbers that was 75% of all people between 13 and 40... You cannot criminalize a whole generation of people; Something else with the "system" is wrong. Its time to realize that copyright, sharing , networking, social behaviour, possession of music videos radio television media - is something new now an Dec 10 00:15:07 that best not be copypasta Dec 10 00:15:08 javispedro, its funny to do a prank with a friend's n900 ;) Dec 10 00:15:30 javispedro: want me to CC you on the psx4all repo mail? Dec 10 00:15:34 * Jaffa will show it to a colleague tomorrow as "my N900's got a feature shared with the iPhone" ;) Dec 10 00:15:39 ali1234: yes please Dec 10 00:16:18 * javispedro already envisions the app being pulled from extras because it damages "critical features of the device" Dec 10 00:16:27 Imagine getting sewed because you bought and wore the same clothes as your neighbour; your neighbour should of course own the rights for his looks :) Dec 10 00:16:30 Jaffa, you don't have the real dealbreaker yet Dec 10 00:16:37 Jaffa, fart app :D Dec 10 00:17:30 If somebody ships a fart app I'm putting this thing through the disposal. Dec 10 00:17:48 gotta sleep Dec 10 00:17:50 I thought the only way to damage critical features was to massively overcharge the battery cell ;-P Dec 10 00:17:53 nighty nighty Dec 10 00:18:04 sent Dec 10 00:24:35 GeneralAntilles, I bet that will exist a couple of fart apps in the ovi store Dec 10 00:24:38 GeneralAntilles: That's almost makes me want to write one. Dec 10 00:24:48 Just to get the damned thing out of the way. Dec 10 00:25:05 Jaffa, hehe. Dec 10 00:25:11 What do they do? Just a single button? Is it pressure sensitive? Should you shake the device to build up pressure? Dec 10 00:25:21 VDVsx, the Ovi Store on Symbian is a uniquely depressing affair. Dec 10 00:25:27 GeneralAntilles, an exercise for you: pick your 5800,open OVi store and then search for "fart" Dec 10 00:25:29 :D Dec 10 00:26:01 All of the flight tracking applications only work for airports in Singapore. Dec 10 00:26:16 Jaffa, one of the most ratted: http://store.ovi.com/content/77A1756EAB12B3EFE040050A87320E87?clickSource=search Dec 10 00:26:29 "pico fart pro" Dec 10 00:26:47 Oh. My. God. Dec 10 00:26:47 I installed pico fart lite, miss some features :D Dec 10 00:26:56 but it«s free Dec 10 00:27:01 3 star ratings are the worst. Dec 10 00:27:14 don't need a special fart app for the n900, just use one of the many flash based ones on the web Dec 10 00:27:38 Proteous, oh good idea Dec 10 00:27:48 lol Dec 10 00:28:03 * VDVsx searchs Dec 10 00:28:06 Flash:1 Ovi Store:0 Dec 10 00:28:08 http://www.ebaumsworld.com/flash/play/658/ Dec 10 00:28:25 How far the Maemo Community has fallen. . . . Dec 10 00:28:35 lol Dec 10 00:28:57 Wonder if it streams them? If embedded, it could be an offline package Dec 10 00:28:58 * VDVsx packages a flash fart app for maemo Dec 10 00:29:27 * GeneralAntilles wonders if his DDP N900 will ship before he returns home for Christmas. Dec 10 00:29:31 That one's even finger friendly. Dec 10 00:29:34 DDP? Dec 10 00:29:38 * Jaffa can't make up his mind on DDP. Dec 10 00:29:56 I'm thinking not. Loan & contract run out at similar times. Dec 10 00:30:15 nm Dec 10 00:31:06 f*cking mail app flashed up the ettins for 0.5sec this moment Dec 10 00:31:56 in which ways is the builtin calendar better than the gpe calendar? Dec 10 00:32:05 DDP? Dec 10 00:32:10 ~lart pop mail for not knowing error codes like poll_mintime Dec 10 00:32:11 * infobot shoots pop mail in the head for not knowing error codes like poll_mintime Dec 10 00:32:15 xorAxAx: Integrated with contact's birthdays. Dec 10 00:32:29 xorAxAx: alarmd integration. Dec 10 00:32:44 xorAxAx: Probably about it. It's been a while since I used GPE Dec 10 00:33:00 Gadgetoid, Device Discount Program. Dec 10 00:33:10 Jaffa, I may decide to sell it to somebody. Dec 10 00:33:36 oh right general, how much did you get roff? Dec 10 00:33:42 off* Dec 10 00:33:54 €250 Dec 10 00:33:57 hmm, how can i sync the builtin calendar with evolution? Dec 10 00:34:00 not bad Dec 10 00:34:10 Which is borderline ripoff compare to US street prices. Dec 10 00:34:14 Especially without a warranty. Dec 10 00:34:18 heh Dec 10 00:34:26 no warranty? bah Dec 10 00:34:35 for those with 1 year loan the DDP is quite useless IMO, but we never know:) Dec 10 00:34:43 i got £150 pff retail Dec 10 00:34:49 how come nokia can't make enough phones for everyone who wants one to be able to buy one at launch Dec 10 00:34:53 hahsahd;lkjasdf;lkj Dec 10 00:35:17 first sim free phone i've ever bought Dec 10 00:35:18 Proteous, because management was stupid and underestimated demand by a ridiculous amount? Dec 10 00:35:31 VDVsx: I may run for council in March just to have some kind of "we should have 'em" leg to stand on ;) Dec 10 00:35:38 GeneralAntilles: *again* Dec 10 00:35:46 GeneralAntilles: maybe by design in some sort of stupid "lets make this exculsive and make you feel lucky if you get one" kind of thing Dec 10 00:35:55 because demand > supply is the only way to keep prices high? Dec 10 00:36:14 Proteous, yeah, they're not that smart. ;) Dec 10 00:36:16 it's not really in the interest of the supplier to match/overshoot demand =) Dec 10 00:36:26 500 quid is about the going rate for smartphones Dec 10 00:36:34 unless its an iphone Dec 10 00:36:39 mikhas: It is if you're trying to build a platform and *meet* demand. Dec 10 00:36:43 in reality it ends up being, "oh well, I can't get one for another 4 months and by that time something else better comes out that I buy instead" Dec 10 00:36:45 Jaffa, didn't get your proposal :D Dec 10 00:36:55 nokia are hardly keeping prices high Dec 10 00:37:07 Jaffa: what is the alarmd integration about? Dec 10 00:37:08 Jaffa, lol, gonna do the Grover Cleveland thing? ;) Dec 10 00:37:32 VDVsx: Long time to go yet -- I'm waiting to see if all the good work the current council does makes me feel bad. Or whether everyone'll end up just having hissy fits at Quim on -community. Dec 10 00:37:34 mikhas, there are orders of magnitude to contend with here. ;) Dec 10 00:37:41 xorAxAx: Alarms will go off if device is completely off. Dec 10 00:37:44 specially with some of us preorderers scoring between 30 to 45 percent off Dec 10 00:37:57 Jaffa: oh, thats cool Dec 10 00:38:14 GeneralAntilles: I needed to Google that - 22nd & 24th US president isn't something non-USians necessarily know about ;-) Dec 10 00:38:18 well, ok. let's say demand >> supply might be stupid then =p Dec 10 00:38:40 Jaffa, I had a whole weekend full of European references I didn't get, so I'm repaying the favor. ;) Dec 10 00:38:40 Jaffa, eheh, seems that Quim doesn't like our proposals at all :P Dec 10 00:39:52 european up my leg Dec 10 00:42:04 does GPE support MfE? Dec 10 00:42:26 GeneralAntilles: Barcelona? You should've just gone around asking for Manuel to teach you English "from a book". And answering everything with "Que?" Dec 10 00:42:41 Que? Dec 10 00:42:45 timeless_mbp: No. But it has other sync capabilities AFAIK Dec 10 00:43:00 zerojay, ping! Dec 10 00:43:05 talking bout alarms - I'm really missing the maemo4 alarm setup Dec 10 00:43:12 Quoi? Dec 10 00:43:16 zerojay: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5035TY5RSpg Dec 10 00:43:28 zerojay, pick a good weekend in the summer to have an event on. Dec 10 00:43:29 maemo5 is so... retarded Dec 10 00:43:36 A "long weeekend" if you will. Dec 10 00:43:40 Gadgetoid: last i checked the cost of an unsubsidized iPhone wasn't much cheaper.. Dec 10 00:43:54 (alarms for that statement) Dec 10 00:44:20 GeneralAntilles: Er... week 24. lol Dec 10 00:44:27 Whatever the fuck that would be. Dec 10 00:44:41 timeless_mbp more like 400 more Dec 10 00:44:48 zerojay: Excellent, there's even a Candian joke in that clip Dec 10 00:44:54 GeneralAntilles: Let me ruminate. Dec 10 00:46:28 i miss the n810s endearing notification led Dec 10 00:48:03 * timeless_mbp ponders Dec 10 00:48:12 does ovi store work w/ my n81? Dec 10 00:48:41 i'm considering one of the free apps, it says you need to be a native speaker to appreciate it Dec 10 00:48:44 * timeless_mbp crashes safari Dec 10 00:48:59 (or maybe that's "ovi crashes safari") Dec 10 00:50:41 Gadgetoid, what's the problem with N900 led? smaller apperture? Dec 10 00:51:21 i love the big corner led on the n810... its nice and visible and has character Dec 10 00:51:40 yep, ack for that Dec 10 00:52:32 * Arkenoi really wants bigger keys. at least bigger shift, fn and ctrl keys, Crtl-Q, Fn-A, Fn-Sym and Shift-Z are tricky to press. Dec 10 00:52:53 the one on the n900 just aint visible in a slip case Dec 10 00:53:35 Gadgetoid, not even when screen down on table Dec 10 00:54:19 Arkenoi, luckyily the prefix keys are stricky Dec 10 00:54:37 except ctrl (sometomes?) Dec 10 00:56:56 darn. typos indicate a timeout due Dec 10 01:05:56 darn. typos indicate a timeout due Dec 10 01:05:56 <-- alsuren has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) Dec 10 01:05:58 howd you know Dec 10 01:08:31 s/timeout/outtime ;-D can't disclose about my crystal ball Dec 10 01:08:50 goodbye Dec 10 01:11:05 heh, i know alot about them Dec 10 01:11:26 when i was a wee toddler, i used to wave my hands over my dads head and say.. Crystal Ball, Crystal Ball... he wasnt to happy about that :/ Dec 10 01:26:21 xchat is 100000000x better than irssi Dec 10 01:26:28 :D Dec 10 01:27:04 * Sargun_Screen is a 100000x better than Dec 10 01:27:05 ACTION  Dec 10 01:30:11 LIES Dec 10 01:30:15 irssi == teh win Dec 10 01:30:48 nothing like saying how great your irc client is then getting disconneted Dec 10 01:31:53 :D Dec 10 01:32:44 Proteous: theres a difference between "getting" disconnected and disconnecting Dec 10 01:32:58 ~redeeman++ Dec 10 01:34:11 It strikes me that a lot of games for maemo 5 are very artist unfriendly Dec 10 01:34:27 do people shoot artists in these games? Dec 10 01:34:53 no, they just hide the artwork in c files and other funky formats Dec 10 01:35:15 ahhh Dec 10 01:35:42 your editor cannot read in a byte array from C files? :P Dec 10 01:35:49 image editor that is Dec 10 01:35:50 It would be like asking a Isaac Newton to please do all of his publications via a hex editor Dec 10 01:36:19 I'm sure you could get GIMP to do that if your *really* wanted to. Dec 10 01:36:58 i think somebody needs to add a note to the manpage Dec 10 01:37:09 heh Dec 10 01:39:56 I hope more games will be showing up for the n900 soon Dec 10 01:40:23 i still have to try out the nes emulator Dec 10 01:40:46 too busy trying to get the qt libs and qt-creator installed on the phone Dec 10 01:41:41 simula_: you have a toolchain on the phone? Dec 10 01:42:53 you can get g++ and companions in one of the fancy repositories Dec 10 01:43:04 i forget if it's extras-devel or sdk Dec 10 01:43:13 or it might be another one Dec 10 01:44:05 i hope that installs to /opt - / doesn't have enough space for that Dec 10 01:44:12 heh, nopes Dec 10 01:44:25 they ate up all my root.. i'm down to like 10megs :) Dec 10 01:44:35 i'll install everything i cook up to opt though Dec 10 01:49:26 dmj7261: 47:72:61:76:69:74:79:20:69:73:20:61:62:6f:75:74:20:74:68:65:20:61:70:70:6c:65:20:66:61:6c:6c:69:6e:67:20:66:72:6f:6d:20:74:68:65:20:74:72:65:65:2e Dec 10 01:49:39 ? Dec 10 01:49:45 I wrote you something ;) Dec 10 01:50:17 Your IPv8 address? Dec 10 01:50:42 nop Dec 10 01:50:55 http://www.dolcevie.com/js/converter.html Dec 10 01:51:19 hehe Dec 10 01:51:32 ;) Dec 10 01:51:51 I've written lots of things in hex, but I'd rather not draw pictures in it. Dec 10 02:00:07 x-face maker :) http://www.dairiki.org/xface/xface.php Dec 10 02:02:08 dmj7261: ivp8? Dec 10 02:02:15 IPv8*? Dec 10 02:02:34 Does that even exist yet? lol Dec 10 02:02:40 a joke...we're still not fully on IPv6 Dec 10 02:02:44 no it doesn't Dec 10 02:02:52 Yeah haah Dec 10 02:03:04 (but it was too long to be IPv6 Dec 10 02:03:26 hmmm...could have vanity IP addresses, just like license plates. Dec 10 02:03:44 Yeah, tahts what i was wondering lol Dec 10 02:04:18 A corporation might choose something like: Dec 10 02:04:21 47:6f:6f:67:6c:65:3a:20:44:6f:20:4e:6f:20:45:76:69:6c:2e Dec 10 02:05:00 or Dec 10 02:05:05 4d:61:65:6d:6f:3a:20:4c:61:73:65:72:20:50:65:6e:67:75:69:6e:73:2e Dec 10 02:06:04 or even Dec 10 02:06:09 41:70:70:6c:65:3a:20:53:68:69:6e:79:20:53:68:69:74:2e Dec 10 02:06:34 http://www.dolcevie.com/js/converter.html Dec 10 02:12:00 dmj7261: lol Dec 10 02:12:25 shiny Dec 10 02:14:03 Hi. I report and triage a lot of bugs in the Maemo bugzilla, and I wondered if I might request "canconfirm" or "editbugs" permission, so that I could more easily help with triage rather than just noting a necessary status change so someone else can make it. What procedure exists for requesting such permissions? Dec 10 02:15:07 dmj7261: .--. .-.. . .- ... . ... - --- .--. - .... .. ... -. --- -. ... . -. ... . ...-.- Dec 10 02:16:28 DocScrutinizer: What nonsense? ;) Dec 10 02:16:51 hehe Dec 10 02:17:47 JoshTriplett1, we don't really have a strong formal process for it. Dec 10 02:17:57 But talk to Andre about it. Dec 10 02:17:59 * JoshTriplett1 fixes his nick. Dec 10 02:18:10 Must have gotten disconnected at some point. :) Dec 10 02:18:11 I'll ping him tomorrow if I remember. Dec 10 02:18:17 GeneralAntilles: Thanks! Dec 10 02:20:03 anyone tried video plugin with pidgin? Dec 10 02:20:21 JoshTriplett, he's usually on here under andre__ Dec 10 02:20:34 JoshTriplett, it's about 5 AM there, though. ;) Dec 10 02:21:26 JoshTriplett, also see #maemo-bugs and there is a bug day on the 15th, see the wiki Dec 10 02:21:41 jebba900: Yeah, I saw that on Planet. Dec 10 02:28:51 woohoo, newegg charge for my N900 Dec 10 02:31:36 microlith, gimme your account info. I'm happy to charge you as well if you enjoy it so much :-P Dec 10 02:43:02 * Xisdibik charges microlith's card aswell Dec 10 02:45:12 lol Dec 10 02:48:07 hi Dec 10 02:48:15 just got Nokia Messaging setup for my email today Dec 10 02:48:25 i wonder how much they plan to charge for that when it goes live Dec 10 02:48:54 if i have to, i'll just setup my home system to text message me when a new email arrives Dec 10 02:53:32 Vratha: I feel certain that won't prove necessary. :) Dec 10 02:56:21 you think it's going to remain a free service/ Dec 10 02:57:10 Vratha: Most likely, but even if it doesn't I feel certain that Maemo will support other mechanisms for achieving the same thing. Dec 10 02:57:41 maybe. i'm waiting to see inbox search and "smart folders" **** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Dec 10 02:59:56 2009