**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Thu Dec 10 02:59:56 2009 Dec 10 03:00:10 btw i do not see imap folders in gmail with nokia messaging and duplicate sent and draft folders instead :-( is it known bug? Dec 10 03:00:44 Arkenoi: The duplicate sent and drafts folders represents one of the most requested missing features. Dec 10 03:01:19 Arkenoi: See https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2557 and http://maemo.org/community/brainstorm/view/keep_sent_and_drafts_on_imap_server/ Dec 10 03:01:20 Bug 2557: Keep Sent and Drafts on IMAP server Dec 10 03:01:52 Arkenoi: I don't know what you mean by the other issue. Dec 10 03:02:28 Possibly an issue with IMAP subscriptions; I think Modest (the email client) only shows subscribed folders. Dec 10 03:03:11 JoshTriplett, it is not local folders and server folders - it is two copies of server folders Dec 10 03:03:24 Arkenoi: Oh. That sounds like a different issue, then. Dec 10 03:03:30 Arkenoi: I don't know the problem there, sorry. Dec 10 03:03:52 Arkenoi: Possibly a known issue, possibly not. I'd suggest doing a quick search on bugzilla to see if you see the bug, and if not you should report it. Dec 10 03:04:33 one has "globe" icon and one has regular one, but the contents are the same - i see server-side messages that were not sent via nokia messaging in both Dec 10 03:05:12 and there are no subscription options, at least none i could find Dec 10 03:05:46 oooh Dec 10 03:05:49 tracking number even Dec 10 03:06:15 friday! Dec 10 03:06:52 microlith: :) Dec 10 03:07:00 microlith: I know that feeling. :) Dec 10 03:07:26 Arkenoi: Modest doesn't have any visible subscription options; it just hides any folder you haven't subscribed to. Dec 10 03:07:39 Arkenoi: But in any case, the behavior you described definitely sounds like a bug. Dec 10 03:07:41 I can retire this ancient A1200 Dec 10 03:07:43 Arkenoi: You should report it. Dec 10 03:08:11 amiga 1200? Dec 10 03:08:24 Motorola Dec 10 03:08:28 microlith: Heh. I can beat that: this replaces my Nokia 3120b. :) Dec 10 03:08:34 ;) Dec 10 03:08:44 timperi: you must have big pockets :) Dec 10 03:11:50 it's the nonfunctioning microphone that bothers me really Dec 10 03:13:19 hey does anyone know why hard vfp is disabled in scratchbox? Dec 10 03:14:04 so silly that the n8x0 has a vfp unit and that it doesn't get used Dec 10 03:14:17 i understand that a lot of apps are compiled w/ thumb to make them smaller Dec 10 03:14:25 but there are still plenty that use softfp Dec 10 03:21:55 whoa looks like i disconnected Dec 10 03:22:02 did anyone get my question? Dec 10 03:22:24 ersin: Netsplit; not a problem on your end. :)( Dec 10 03:22:26 Er, :) Dec 10 03:22:36 yep Dec 10 03:22:38 And yes, your question went to the channel before the netsplit. Dec 10 03:22:42 O_O Dec 10 03:22:44 netsplit? Dec 10 03:22:53 is that an ice cream? Dec 10 03:22:57 Heh. Dec 10 03:23:04 freenode barfed Dec 10 03:23:10 yikes Dec 10 03:23:15 ersin: IRC means "internet relay chat"; the "relay" part means multiple servers pass messages back and forth. Dec 10 03:23:25 ersin: Freenode, like most large IRC networks, has many servers. Dec 10 03:23:33 ok so the liq* apps are fantastic Dec 10 03:23:42 gotcha Dec 10 03:23:48 ersin: The connection between two of them got broken, and everyone on the wrong side saw everyone else disconnect. :) Dec 10 03:23:56 hahah Dec 10 03:24:03 that's kind of funny when you put it that way Dec 10 03:24:10 like mass online schadefreude Dec 10 03:24:17 FreeNode should setup redundancy -.- Dec 10 03:24:36 ersin: You can see that in the quit messages; they all say "brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net". Means brown.freenode.net split off. Dec 10 03:24:46 luke-jr: *More* redundancy, apparently. ;) Dec 10 03:24:58 ah, thank you joshtriplett Dec 10 03:25:03 JoshTriplett: afaik, FreeNode only uses a single connection between any two servers Dec 10 03:25:05 so does anyone know about the vfp unit? Dec 10 03:25:11 vfp is not a unit Dec 10 03:25:19 instruction Dec 10 03:25:21 ? Dec 10 03:25:40 but the n800 has support for it built in, no? Dec 10 03:25:55 yet scratchbox gcc only supports emulated vfp Dec 10 03:25:56 or irc.freenode.net split off.. depending on what side you're on :) Dec 10 03:26:06 or "softfp" Dec 10 03:26:35 luke-jr, if that's been a oopsie on simmons.freenode.net, it's hard to setup redundancy for it's users Dec 10 03:26:49 ersin: Assume anyting luke-jr tells you is wrong. Dec 10 03:26:53 vfp is a unit. Dec 10 03:27:02 derf: lmao ok Dec 10 03:27:08 that's what i thought... Dec 10 03:27:33 derf: no u Dec 10 03:27:44 Scummer: irc.freenode.net is not a server Dec 10 03:27:56 what ? Dec 10 03:28:05 *** Current server: irc.freenode.net 6667 Dec 10 03:28:13 i disagree Dec 10 03:28:16 dr_cain: pluto is not a planet Dec 10 03:28:24 ersin: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARM_architecture#VFP Dec 10 03:28:44 Scummer: irc.freenode.net is a round-robin Dec 10 03:29:01 hmm... Dec 10 03:29:01 ersin: And yes, the N800 is ARM11, which has vfp. Dec 10 03:29:16 right Dec 10 03:29:30 so then why doesn't scratchbox support the hardware vfp by default? Dec 10 03:29:54 ok.. ok.. a dig does show multiple ip's for chat.freenode.net which is the cname for irc Dec 10 03:29:56 irc.freenode.net is the whole infrastructure Dec 10 03:29:58 "softfp" does not actually mean software-emulated floating point. Dec 10 03:30:14 It's just specifying the ABI. Dec 10 03:30:22 ersin: are you actually asking why an emulator is emulating? Dec 10 03:30:46 what does it mean then? i do remember from compiling 770 kernels (which don't have vfp) that there is a kernel module for fp emulation Dec 10 03:31:13 ersin: 22:30:14 < derf> It's just specifying the ABI. Dec 10 03:31:14 so the statement "for simmons.fn.net the irc.fn.net split off" is absolutely correct Dec 10 03:31:15 luke-jr: um...yes, in a sense...why is it emulating when there's no need for it Dec 10 03:31:30 derf: sorry i didn't see that Dec 10 03:31:30 ersin: an x86 CPU is not going to support vfp, so ... there is a need for it Dec 10 03:31:47 luke-jr: excuse me...? i'm talking about the n800 Dec 10 03:31:58 scratchbox *on* a N800? Dec 10 03:32:04 no Dec 10 03:32:12 that's not how cross compiling works... Dec 10 03:32:28 you don't need a pc with vfp support to have a cross compiler that supports vfp Dec 10 03:32:54 so why do you think this cross-compiler isn't making binaries that use vfp? Dec 10 03:33:15 luke-jr: ...are you trolling? Dec 10 03:33:19 no Dec 10 03:33:40 luke-jr: that's the whole reason i came here, to ask if anyone knew why the compiler was doing that Dec 10 03:33:49 are you familiar with scratchbox? Dec 10 03:33:50 what makes you think the compiler is doing that? Dec 10 03:34:07 because it only supports -mfloat-abi=softfp Dec 10 03:34:12 nope, never touched it with a 10 foot pole Dec 10 03:34:14 that's an ABI Dec 10 03:34:23 whereas other arm cross compilers support -mfloat-abi=hard Dec 10 03:34:32 yes...yes it is Dec 10 03:34:36 afaik softfp ABI can use vfp Dec 10 03:34:47 ersin: -mfloat-abi is _just_ the ABI. Dec 10 03:35:20 derf: it seems fishy then that other places on the internet report using -mfloat-abi=hard Dec 10 03:35:40 i mean, i guess my question then is if anyone knows what the difference is Dec 10 03:35:48 between "softfp" abi and "hard" abi Dec 10 03:36:25 "Specifying `soft' causes GCC to generate output containing library calls for floating-point operations. `softfp' allows the generation of code using hardware floating-point instructions, but still uses the soft-float calling conventions. `hard' allows generation of floating-point instructions and uses FPU-specific calling conventions." Dec 10 03:36:53 From http://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gcc/ARM-Options.html Dec 10 03:36:58 does the n900 have hardwarefpu? Dec 10 03:37:00 (or man gcc) Dec 10 03:37:03 derf: thank you for that gem Dec 10 03:37:04 I guess hard is using direct machine opcodes while soft uses the lib Dec 10 03:37:17 so then essentially hard *is* more optimized Dec 10 03:37:22 SpeedEvil: that's what vfp is... Dec 10 03:37:34 And note, for cs2007q3-glibc2.5-arm7, the default flags are Dec 10 03:37:39 so why wouldn't diablo scratchbox use hard...? Dec 10 03:37:41 *cc1: Dec 10 03:37:41 -march=armv7a -mcpu=cortex-a8 -mfpu=vfp %{.S:-mfpu=neon} -mfloat-abi=softfp -fno-omit-frame-pointer -fno-optimize-sibling-calls %(old_cc1) Dec 10 03:37:52 ersin: most likely the reason it won't let you do ABI hard is because ScratchBox is specifically for targetting Maemo Dec 10 03:37:54 and Maemo uses softfp Dec 10 03:37:59 and the two ABIs are not compatible Dec 10 03:38:16 actually they are compatible on new eabi according to what i read Dec 10 03:38:17 luke-jr: yes, obviously, but i'm saying why isn't the *whole thing* in hard??? Dec 10 03:38:24 but does diablo use new eabi? i think not Dec 10 03:38:39 ersin: OS2008 still supports 770 to some degree, perhaps? Dec 10 03:38:46 hmm good point Dec 10 03:39:18 alright then, i'll settle for softfp for now Dec 10 03:39:21 the real question I have now is why my Gentoo on N810 is using softfp ;) Dec 10 03:39:37 SpeedEvil: cortex-a8 fpu infos: http://pandorawiki.org/Floating_Point_Optimization Dec 10 03:39:37 but mark my words, one day fremantle will run on the n800 in all hard vfp Dec 10 03:39:53 the short answer is a8 has vfp but it has neon too, and neon is better Dec 10 03:40:03 luke-jr: hah, of all distros to run unoptimized lol Dec 10 03:40:34 ali1234: i didn't think that n800 uses a8 cortex? Dec 10 03:40:43 ersin: it doesn't, n900 does Dec 10 03:40:51 ali1234: gotcha Dec 10 03:41:12 alright well back to work for me, thanks everyone Dec 10 03:42:53 does anyone know off hand what code sourcery version is used in fremantle sdk? Dec 10 03:43:08 git? Dec 10 03:43:21 no, gcc Dec 10 03:43:37 it will be something like 2007q3 Dec 10 03:43:46 ali1234: cs2007q3-glibc2.5-arm7 Dec 10 03:43:47 ohh i thought versioning Dec 10 03:43:49 I just said. Dec 10 03:44:10 sorry, i was reading that pandora page :) Dec 10 03:46:47 maep is great liteweight map tool Dec 10 03:47:47 hmm.. supports google maps Dec 10 03:49:47 jebba : you compiled it from the svn source ? Dec 10 03:49:58 seems like no .deb exists Dec 10 03:50:55 is there tangogps for maemo? Dec 10 03:51:40 Scummer, i grabbed it from the repo maybe extras-devel Dec 10 03:51:52 DocScrutinizer, havent seen it yet Dec 10 03:52:00 jebba: ok Dec 10 03:52:02 a pitty Dec 10 03:55:56 doc maybe GL issue. i may have even tried to build it myself but hit lots of deps Dec 10 03:57:36 gnite Dec 10 03:58:46 maep is neat Dec 10 04:00:36 cool.. maep uses a cycle map and shows bicycle path Dec 10 04:04:16 snowcrash Dec 10 04:04:49 is contacts and dialer open source? Dec 10 04:09:36 scrutininzer: doesn't the SDK tell you this ? Dec 10 04:14:57 Scummer, I bet it would. Alas itMs not *yet* installed on my laptop with that crammed hd Dec 10 04:16:21 terabytes are cheap :) Dec 10 04:17:36 not for laptop replayement. just the moving of whole system to new hd costs some downtime which I can't afford ATM Dec 10 04:20:57 hm.. i externally attached my new drive, moved all my docs over and swapped the internal for the new bigger hd Dec 10 04:21:16 apps were reinstalled Dec 10 04:21:46 on the other hand.. apps are easily moved in os x Dec 10 04:23:49 yeah. Fact is, I got no SDK yet. So you got an answer? Dec 10 04:24:05 scummer apps are easy, when drive dies taking 200 gb of organised data its more of a hassle Dec 10 04:25:43 scrutinized : one sec Dec 10 04:26:17 * gahballs is looking at data disaster. tho hopefully what remains will be the cream. Dec 10 04:28:07 gahballs, ouch. No fictive case :-\ Dec 10 04:28:45 its not so bad i have incremental and essential backups Dec 10 04:29:37 its just the first time in years my core dev stuff has all been vaped and will tak some time to get back in place Dec 10 04:30:45 thankfully my linux stuff is rock solid Dec 10 04:31:29 hmm.. odd.. i thought i had scratchbox installed already Dec 10 04:31:34 just cant get to net through it cos windows is in the way and i dont want to send traffic through machine whilst its disk scanning Dec 10 04:36:44 whats phase 5 on scandisk for Dec 10 04:39:33 whats scandisk? windoze tool ? Dec 10 04:39:55 scummer yeah Dec 10 04:40:25 ok maemo question. Dec 10 04:40:47 where can i gwt a hannah montana screensaver for my girlfiends n900 Dec 10 04:41:05 http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/12/09/2215253 <| lol Dec 10 04:41:07 uhhh Dec 10 04:42:15 serious scummer i can ger one for s60 from the app store Dec 10 04:42:19 why not maemo Dec 10 04:44:27 * gahballs gets breakfast Dec 10 04:44:39 darn.. scratchbox takes up quite some spaec Dec 10 04:45:07 its about 1/2gb isnt it? Dec 10 04:45:15 Significantly more. Dec 10 04:45:17 1.3GB it appears Dec 10 04:45:53 f is that with all targets and toolkits tho Dec 10 04:46:13 this is without the SDK Dec 10 04:46:26 gulp Dec 10 04:46:29 i only gave that virtual machine 10g's... Dec 10 04:46:33 who wants baconbutty Dec 10 04:46:33 lol Dec 10 04:46:35 dang Dec 10 04:46:36 ninja assassin Dec 10 04:46:38 100lbs of gold! Dec 10 04:48:38 hurray for 4Mb downloads, even tho my speed is 16Mbit *grumble* slow scratchbox server ? Dec 10 04:49:40 i just wonder Dec 10 04:49:49 maybe, anyone got any milk im out and tmilkman aint due for a while Dec 10 04:50:04 if i already have armv7-unknown-linux-gnueabi crosscompiler Dec 10 04:50:09 and qemu Dec 10 04:50:24 armv7l* Dec 10 04:50:35 do i really need scratchbox? Dec 10 04:50:47 the SDK install asks for it Dec 10 04:51:20 i guess you could just modify the script to have the sources downloaded without scratchbox... Dec 10 04:51:38 Right now, my /opt/scratchbox is (according to du): Dec 10 04:51:38 8.3G total Dec 10 04:51:58 crikey derf Dec 10 04:52:00 derf: is that with source only? Dec 10 04:52:01 * hardaker thinks porting stuff to the N900 is like chasing a dependency tree from hell where you have to build every package known to man first. Dec 10 04:52:17 derf: or are there some compiled bins in there as well ? Dec 10 04:52:32 That's with 5 or so targets and at least two devkits. Dec 10 04:52:32 8G's.. mother of god Dec 10 04:53:05 hardaker you are doing it wrong. if however you startewd by getting sources for something else, yeah it an get like that Dec 10 04:53:17 I didn't even bother install an x86 target for fremantle, because that's at least another half a GB wasted. Dec 10 04:53:40 i just let the gji installer do its magic Dec 10 04:53:47 gui Dec 10 04:53:59 on a clean ubuntu Dec 10 04:54:14 it does say that scratchbox is a precondition for installing SDK in the install script Dec 10 04:54:26 i'm using a clean debian Dec 10 04:54:56 gahballs: yeah... the problem is that on a full linux system, of course, they try to get everything under the sun into a package. So taking a debian build directory from ubuntu and putting it in scratchbox invariably tries to pull in a gazzilion things that is "optional" Dec 10 04:55:35 i don't really understand why are you so picky about hdd space, anyway Dec 10 04:55:38 ah hell no.. /tmp is full Dec 10 04:55:48 :/ Dec 10 04:56:05 nice, the billing info for my phone was received 4 hours before my package was scanned at its origin Dec 10 04:56:08 * arachnist has 2x 1TB drives in a nice raid1 array Dec 10 04:56:17 Scummer, TB are cheap ;-P Dec 10 04:56:32 oh crap Dec 10 04:56:49 scrut: hehe.. yes.. i do have a 2TBx4 raid5 on my mythtv box :) Dec 10 04:57:13 but that's for movies.. not for scratchbox dang it Dec 10 04:57:20 i have drive fail on other one now. i get the feeling the mobo isying Dec 10 04:57:36 and in 4 months i'm going to get 7x 1.5TB drives, build a raidz2 zfs pool from 6 of them and use one as a spare Dec 10 04:58:08 Scummer: so you're porting the .022 mythtv interface then for me? Dec 10 04:58:24 pretty please? Dec 10 04:58:42 hard: nope.. i'm not a progger.. i just play with that stuff :) Dec 10 05:10:50 vme kicks windows Dec 10 05:21:44 whats the recommended girly phone nowadays, n97 mini or still something like the 5800 Dec 10 05:22:01 are you pretty set on Nokia? Dec 10 05:22:07 iphone Dec 10 05:22:18 spraypainted pink Dec 10 05:22:28 ...including the screen :) Dec 10 05:22:45 ninja assassin is depressing Dec 10 05:22:50 lcuk, htc hero Dec 10 05:23:02 hardaker, but, in that case you might as well get this: http://www.iphonedummy.net/ Dec 10 05:23:05 * lcuk facepalms Dec 10 05:23:15 hehe Dec 10 05:23:31 5800 sucks big time Dec 10 05:23:43 damn all my recent links and things saved have gone Dec 10 05:23:48 theres a pink cover for n900 Dec 10 05:24:08 Macer, yeah, kinda Dec 10 05:24:15 http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/HOT-PINK-HYBRID-HARD-COVER-RUBBER-CASE-FOR-NOKIA-N900_W0QQitemZ150394071202QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_MobilePhones_MobilePhonesCasesPouches?hash=item23042f68a2 Dec 10 05:24:31 oooh, hybrid! Dec 10 05:24:55 somehow it makes the N900 look very 80's Dec 10 05:25:08 and tracy went gaga when i showed it her Dec 10 05:25:23 she had just told me the day before she would have an n900 if it was pink Dec 10 05:26:45 tell her black is the new pink Dec 10 05:28:04 Scummer, she has used n900 for a while now Dec 10 05:28:28 johnx: you saw it? Dec 10 05:28:28 and just wont have one in her handbag unless it matches her other stuff Dec 10 05:28:29 hahaha Dec 10 05:28:40 it cracks me up Dec 10 05:29:10 Macer, at the cinnebarre (which is basically the best invention ever) Dec 10 05:29:24 cinnebarre hahaha Dec 10 05:29:37 lcuk: that is very... bright Dec 10 05:29:43 Macer, you have one in your area too? Dec 10 05:30:07 microlith, you wont lose it Dec 10 05:30:08 we have something similar Dec 10 05:30:24 lcuk: certainly not Dec 10 05:30:38 i think my computer is working again Dec 10 05:30:46 tho i lost 350gb of media Dec 10 05:30:55 and had to physically pull the newest drive :( Dec 10 05:31:32 lcuk : sounds like high maintenance Dec 10 05:31:52 Scummer, the drive or my girlfriend? Dec 10 05:32:17 the gf of course :) Dec 10 05:33:07 you have to love when ninja swoop in and kill a thousand special forces guys Dec 10 05:34:20 Macer, yup, and it's even better when you can sit back and drink a beer while watching it on the big screen :D Dec 10 05:34:21 lcuk,my wife wanted a pink phone, she ended up with blackberry (which doesn't even work properly here in finland) Dec 10 05:34:39 inz lol Dec 10 05:35:35 All the cool blackberry features depend on operator support. Plain GPRS (EDGE) works of course, if you use opera, and gmail app works too Dec 10 05:36:42 * lcuk nods Dec 10 05:36:51 right, computer so far seems stable Dec 10 05:37:01 tho ive lost all my firefox settings Dec 10 05:37:11 and nothing at all got written to a disk yesterday Dec 10 05:37:16 which concerns me Dec 10 05:39:53 ninjas fighting in the street!! Dec 10 05:40:10 what kind of ninjas just fight in the street? :) Dec 10 05:40:26 Macer, pissed off ninjas Dec 10 05:40:34 i suppose Dec 10 05:40:49 I mean, did any of them look particularly happy? Dec 10 05:40:59 Ninjas can fight anywhere they want. Dec 10 05:41:15 They could fight in your boudoir without you noticing. Dec 10 05:41:20 johnx: well. nobody really looks happy in this movie Dec 10 05:41:46 derf: In fact, they do it all the time. Dec 10 05:45:33 still installing.. no wonder i hadn't installed scratchbox before.. takes half a lifetime Dec 10 05:59:22 darn. want that pink monstrosity in black Dec 10 05:59:43 DocScrutinizer, you mean a black protective shell? Dec 10 06:00:20 yep Dec 10 06:00:48 * RST38h moos at lcuk Dec 10 06:00:52 i kinda agree, if it clips on like it looks like it does, id actually like to see that as a base unit for keesjs push n button thing Dec 10 06:00:54 hey RST38h Dec 10 06:00:58 hows it goin Dec 10 06:01:06 slow, snowy Dec 10 06:01:21 same most places Dec 10 06:01:27 i had a snowcrash day yesterday Dec 10 06:01:32 Anyone have any experience with N900s that refuse to boot? Mine wouldn't wake up, and when I plug it in to charge it still won't turn on. After plugging it in, it shows the Nokia logo with no backlight, then starts pulsing the orange light, and keeps pulsing it even if I unplug it. Dec 10 06:01:45 No response to the power button, lock button, or anything else. Dec 10 06:01:54 wow that was a stupid movie :) Dec 10 06:02:00 I've read through the various sources I could find via Google, and didn't find much of use. Dec 10 06:02:15 lcuk: A few days ago, wife spent 6 hours on the belt road Dec 10 06:02:17 JoshTriplett, have you taken the battery out Dec 10 06:02:27 lcuk: 18:15 - 00:15. Literally. Dec 10 06:02:52 belt road? why does that sound familiar, is that the rly bad one heading out of moscow? Dec 10 06:03:10 lcuk: Now, it is a ring around the city Dec 10 06:03:11 lcuk: Yup. Took out the battery, waited a bit, put it in, no response. Of course, I say that, and I just tried it again and now it works. Go figure. :) Dec 10 06:03:23 lcuk: Anti-demo-gods; it works when trying to debug it. ;) Dec 10 06:03:36 JoshTriplett, the flashing of LED means nothing as it's controlled by a dedicated chip Dec 10 06:03:43 lcuk: Proofpics of the disaster here: http://riverpilgrim.livejournal.com/249152.html Dec 10 06:03:44 Oh. Except now it froze on the five-white-dots screen. Dec 10 06:03:46 "This is not a joke, you are or 100,000th visitor Click here" Dec 10 06:03:51 well.. if it says it's not a joke... Dec 10 06:03:57 JoshTriplett, please check for bug reports on that - bugs.maemo.org Dec 10 06:04:07 DocScrutinizer51: It seems odd, though, that it would keep pulsing without the power attached. Dec 10 06:04:23 crikey! Dec 10 06:04:30 lcuk: I have, and I see several such reports, but nothing that seems to match the symptoms exactly. Or rather, nobody seems to have a clue. :) Dec 10 06:04:46 JoshTriplett, it just means nobody switched the chip Dec 10 06:05:34 and of course it means your bat has enough life to power the LED Dec 10 06:05:39 JoshTriplett, then charge it fully today and have fun, if you reproduce again file a specific bug with your symptoms/actions and the bods can have a look Dec 10 06:06:08 rst38h i see you wake up damn early ;-) Dec 10 06:06:15 * JoshTriplett tries booting it again to see if it manages to boot. Dec 10 06:06:21 RST38h, traffic is bad Dec 10 06:06:26 Nope, freezes at the same point. Dec 10 06:06:44 lcuk, seems to me ther's nothing to file. It probably just needed some time sitting and charging the completely drained bat Dec 10 06:06:44 Arkenoi: Well, kids, etc Dec 10 06:07:07 lcuk: that was kinda several degrees beyond "bad" :) Dec 10 06:07:08 DocScrutinizer51: Not even close to drained. Dec 10 06:07:24 DocScrutinizer, but as he said if theres no specific same bug rpeort that cant be clarified or commented on in place Dec 10 06:07:39 JoshTriplett, that's a bug then Dec 10 06:07:59 lcuk: Well, https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6334 seems the closest, but as with many such vague bugs, it has a pile of people trying to "help", not all of which necessarily have the same problem. Dec 10 06:08:00 Bug 6334: random reboots Dec 10 06:08:15 Er, https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6350 rather. Dec 10 06:08:17 Bug 6350: random reboot bricks device Dec 10 06:08:20 Yeah, that one. :) Dec 10 06:08:34 How do you call it a reboot if the device never reboots? =) Dec 10 06:08:36 * lcuk remembers the days when bricked meant bricked Dec 10 06:09:04 poof! goes the magic smoke and the device will never work again Dec 10 06:09:11 * DocScrutinizer51 sighs semntimentally Dec 10 06:09:35 And the devices had real power switches then Dec 10 06:09:38 lcuk: I didn't title the bug. ;) I agree with you, "bricked" means "not recoverable without JTAG". Dec 10 06:10:03 hehe exactly Dec 10 06:10:04 lcuk: "recoverable by flashing over USB" (which I hope this one qualifies as) doesn't come close to "bricked". Dec 10 06:10:31 * lcuk nods Dec 10 06:10:39 Where do I get FBreader codebase? Dec 10 06:10:59 * pupnik_ is pondering making maps of his area for image viewer Dec 10 06:11:03 you can apt-get source if its in the repos, or from fbreader.org Dec 10 06:11:12 pupnik: Maemo Mapper does not? Dec 10 06:11:37 lcuk: Would really like to get the current source, rather than the last one in the repo Dec 10 06:11:43 it demands internet constanyly RST38h Dec 10 06:11:45 fbreader.org Dec 10 06:11:59 pupnik: You can predownload maps and then it does not Dec 10 06:12:02 lcuk: aha Dec 10 06:13:21 sweet. Dec 10 06:13:22 git works. Dec 10 06:13:38 ok, maemo version is there Dec 10 06:13:40 now, when is my ugrade account going to be active. Dec 10 06:14:38 RST38h: there seems to ba no cache setting Dec 10 06:18:05 Info added as https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6350#c24 Dec 10 06:18:07 Bug 6350: random reboot bricks device Dec 10 06:18:40 pupnik: There is something like Manage Maps where you can preload them Dec 10 06:18:46 As said in that comment, happy to try gathering some information before re-flashing. Dec 10 06:18:49 (if I remember correctly that is) Dec 10 06:18:58 pupnik: Also try eCoach, it is rather good at maps Dec 10 06:26:28 Ok, I have found where I bind keys in FBreader Dec 10 06:26:42 I cannot figure out how to add modifiers though Dec 10 06:30:36 EoV looks so like early 90's ;-) Dec 10 06:40:20 Ahhahahahahahaaaaa! Dec 10 06:40:28 Yesssss, yesssss my preciousssss Dec 10 06:40:33 I have found you Dec 10 06:43:42 Don't make me call the Nazgûls to come take you away. Dec 10 06:44:11 No, no, not the ring Dec 10 06:44:19 Modifier definitions in FBreader Dec 10 06:44:30 I can now make it toggle full screen on ctrl+enter Dec 10 06:44:43 wowie Dec 10 06:47:10 RST38h, great, so do you submit a patch to the fbreader guys and hope thye push it through or find a new maintainr for maemo Dec 10 06:51:02 RST38h, well, i just set it to a key via preferences menu Dec 10 06:51:55 lcuk: Well, I will try submitting a patch to geometer, but the hopes are not high for it to be included Dec 10 06:52:22 ok, so how does something like this get dealt with Dec 10 06:53:03 RST38h, did you file the bug originally on fbreader Dec 10 06:53:25 cos if its something specific we couldv crowdsourced interest in it Dec 10 06:59:20 lcuk: I can upload my own version to Extras Dec 10 06:59:37 lcuk: And send a patch to geometer after the fact Dec 10 06:59:37 id rather avoid a fork if at all possible Dec 10 06:59:49 lcuk: It is not really a fork, just a fe changes Dec 10 07:00:08 lcuk: But this way if the patch does not get integrated, the main maintainer will get a shitstorm on his hands Dec 10 07:00:10 yeah and when he pushes a version in the future it will conflict Dec 10 07:00:14 thats a fork \o/ Dec 10 07:00:43 won't conflict Dec 10 07:00:53 mer has a process to put in patches to upstream components Dec 10 07:00:56 will replace mine -> features missing -> shitstorm -> features added Dec 10 07:01:09 reproducably and in a manageable manner Dec 10 07:01:20 thats a fork RST38h however you wrap it up. Dec 10 07:01:30 well, I will try submitting a patch but if the guy does not accept it so be it Dec 10 07:01:59 if theres a bug report relating to the patch you are going to submit, those of us interested in fbreader on our platform can shout in there too Dec 10 07:02:06 no point in just one person submitting a random patch Dec 10 07:02:21 I am mainly interested in making my own life easier, not in greater good Dec 10 07:02:25 he needs to know the platform is using his sw and that decent devs have made a patch :) Dec 10 07:02:35 * lcuk nods Dec 10 07:02:50 So, if someone wants the new package or a patch, he is welcome Dec 10 07:02:57 Otherwise, I couldn't care less Dec 10 07:03:05 i know Dec 10 07:03:48 thats the problem in itself, its not like we have someone able to deal with package ports and patching Dec 10 07:04:22 :D maemo.org forkmaster Dec 10 07:04:30 Hey :) Is anyone using the ``powertop'' utility on n8x0? I think it might be mad useful on a zero-clock based system. Dec 10 07:05:05 I tried enabling TIMER_STATS that is needed for it to output anything useful but something's segfaulting during the system startup. Dec 10 07:05:10 Known issue? Dec 10 07:05:10 Stskeeps, how would distmaster recommend to deal with that kind of problem Dec 10 07:05:18 (the fbreader usability patch) Dec 10 07:05:31 And does n900 comes with it by default? I think it's a must have utility to ensure low power consumption. Dec 10 07:05:36 dunno PaulFertser i tihnk techs might still be sleeping Dec 10 07:05:45 * lcuk is eating bacon Dec 10 07:06:03 lcuk: ah, right, /me leaves in an unusual timezone :) Dec 10 07:06:15 2 hours make difference Dec 10 07:06:22 where r you? Dec 10 07:09:49 lcuk: gmt+3 Dec 10 07:14:55 MEH. atleast there's snow today. otherwise I wouldn't bother. Dec 10 07:15:04 is there a way to make the wifi on the n900 "go to sleep" when the phone isn't being used? this would be similar to the iphone and it disconnecting from wifi to conserve battery Dec 10 07:16:00 Looks like event description is not synced from google calendar :-( Dec 10 07:27:03 vratha, I don't think so Dec 10 07:27:24 Vratha: it does sleep Dec 10 07:27:24 aww :( Dec 10 07:27:35 Vratha: it just doesnt disconnect Dec 10 07:27:50 oh, well, it would be nice if it disconnected, turning the radio off completely Dec 10 07:27:54 there are various ways to do powersaving on wlan Dec 10 07:27:56 or at least have an option for htat Dec 10 07:28:03 tigert, I wonder how silent it can be to still remain connected.. Dec 10 07:28:07 thats offline mode then Dec 10 07:28:23 tigert: doesn't that require me to manually disconnect? Dec 10 07:28:35 I suppose if the dbus-interface for controlling network onnectivity was known, it wouldn't be a big task to write such a tool Dec 10 07:28:36 yes and it kills phone too Dec 10 07:28:50 syncs ok up (phone to google) but not vice versa Dec 10 07:28:50 no, you can just disconect from wifi Dec 10 07:29:22 which is what i do now after having owned the phone a few days since the battery was dying. having done that today, the phone battery last WAAAAY longer Dec 10 07:29:23 actually what slightly annoyes me is that if I've configured it to automatically go online connect whenever it can, I cannot simply disconnect (it'll reconnect shortly after), I need to dig into the menus do disable automatic connecting Dec 10 07:30:05 morning all Dec 10 07:30:42 flux: well yeah Dec 10 07:30:52 flux: uncheck "Switch to wifi when available" in the internet connection settings Dec 10 07:31:27 thats how autoconnect kinda should work :) Dec 10 07:31:34 but yea, do like Vratha says Dec 10 07:38:07 morn Dec 10 07:38:40 hey Stskeeps Dec 10 07:56:49 wow, finally, latitude/googlemaps problem solved: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=26630&page=6 - if we could only scroll it with finger.. Dec 10 08:02:54 Nokia N900 just survived a fall from shirt pocket onto concrete! Dec 10 08:03:03 short of unplugging/replugging the usb cable on the n900, can i take the n900 out of "USB mass storage mode" after unmounting from the host pc? Dec 10 08:03:08 you are a dedicated tester pupnik_ Dec 10 08:03:14 lid and battery flew all over - no scratches or anything Dec 10 08:03:29 fantastic! Dec 10 08:06:58 pupnik_: no scratches on the case either? Dec 10 08:07:01 is it in a shell? Dec 10 08:07:18 no scratches, no shell Dec 10 08:07:29 * luke-jr wonders if people with loaner N900s are liable for damage Dec 10 08:08:09 Well, i think i should advertise it on T.M.O Dec 10 08:08:25 to balance some of my whining Dec 10 08:14:44 Vratha, no Dec 10 08:24:33 wow, n900 seems to have charged from computer-usb in "charging only" mode, I thought that was the crappy one Dec 10 08:25:40 ShadowJK: suck. they should add that Dec 10 08:26:00 learning the fun of dbus-send. maybe i'll be able to send an sms with it soon Dec 10 08:26:02 but for now: sleep Dec 10 08:29:13 Vratha, http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Jebba#DBUS Dec 10 08:30:18 hello maemo Dec 10 08:30:27 morn wazd :) Dec 10 08:31:52 DocScrutinizer51: pretty sweet. unfortunately i don't see any SMS stuff there Dec 10 08:32:00 but i'll take a look at some libs later; i need sleep now Dec 10 08:32:02 * Vratha & Dec 10 08:33:31 hello wazd Dec 10 08:33:46 * RST38h managed to add Ctrl-Enter shortcut to FBReader to toggle full screen Dec 10 08:34:04 Pending: taking over +/- buttons and fixing a heap corruption on exit Dec 10 08:35:41 wow, think ive done something to my device, takes forever to register taps on the screen and launching anything takes forever Dec 10 08:35:56 frals: do you have browser open? Dec 10 08:36:07 nope, just rebooted as well Dec 10 08:36:30 should probably reflash, went a bit crazy on extras-devel last night :P Dec 10 08:36:44 yeah Dec 10 08:36:44 :P Dec 10 08:36:52 the load is low thou Dec 10 08:37:01 rst38h: there already is a patch for +/- buttons, have you seen it? Dec 10 08:37:04 on the other hand it has swapped 32megs Dec 10 08:38:16 RST38h: i actually think you managed to calm down the GPS bug Dec 10 08:40:39 2 Nokia flagship usa stores closing. Dec 10 08:40:40 :( Dec 10 08:43:22 Stskeeps: any thoughts about powertop? Dec 10 08:43:51 PaulFertser: n8x0 powertop experiments won't work sadly. there was something about the way the kernel is made and something that doesn't work Dec 10 08:44:11 wtf is powertop Dec 10 08:44:15 Stskeeps: exactly, the stock kernel is compiled without TIMER_STATS Dec 10 08:44:23 PaulFertser: and with it breaks wifi, i think Dec 10 08:44:34 luke-jr, shows you how much timer abuse apps are doing Dec 10 08:44:40 luke-jr: mad cool utility to track who the hell spends cycles, i.e. by waking up and doing something useless. Dec 10 08:44:49 Stskeeps: oh no, why is it always so hard :| Dec 10 08:45:00 PaulFertser: the n900 is so much nicer in some regards :P Dec 10 08:45:09 Stskeeps: does it come with powertop preinstalled? Dec 10 08:45:12 and time spent in various CPU sleep states, and on N900 you even get a table with various subsystems of the SOC and the amount of time they spent in sleep/etc Dec 10 08:45:16 PaulFertser: installable, afaik Dec 10 08:45:26 PaulFertser: old version had it preinstalled Dec 10 08:45:27 Stskeeps: ah, that's cool, an improvement indeed. Dec 10 08:45:33 morning Dec 10 08:45:48 it looks very different from the powertop on desktop, though it's the same info more or less.. Dec 10 08:46:03 Hmm it seems I need to kill the erlang build. It is really stalled :( Dec 10 08:46:07 ShadowJK: arm != x86(-64) Dec 10 08:46:27 yeah but the powertop on my PC is like interactive.. Dec 10 08:46:29 Arkenoi: the one in the repo is not a patch for +/- buttons Dec 10 08:46:38 yep Dec 10 08:46:42 Arkenoi: The one by qwerty12 I have seen the binaries but not the source Dec 10 08:46:58 Arkenoi: But I kinda know what is in the patch Dec 10 08:47:00 there were sources nearby iirc as well Dec 10 08:47:09 It sets a few XAtoms on every focus-on Dec 10 08:47:14 focus-in sorry Dec 10 08:47:49 xchat looks pretty obnoxious on powertop's list :-) Dec 10 08:47:56 no wonder Dec 10 08:48:11 I bet it's keeping flood-throttle and lagcheck timers active all the time Dec 10 08:49:01 it crashes when you save config Dec 10 08:49:07 so, that is a no-go for me Dec 10 08:49:31 I scp'd the conf from my N810... heh Dec 10 08:49:52 luke-jr: so how do you find the power hogs on n8x0? Dec 10 08:50:10 the old fashioned way, switch random stuff off and see how long until battery is empty Dec 10 08:50:15 holy fuck...I know why N900 goes so slow with time Dec 10 08:50:25 RST38h: memleaks? Dec 10 08:50:36 swap fragmentation Dec 10 08:50:42 hrw: Better! Dec 10 08:50:47 ShadowJK: No, better! Dec 10 08:50:53 oh? Dec 10 08:50:56 11 copies of Modest hanging in memory Dec 10 08:50:57 cpuleak? Dec 10 08:51:02 lol Dec 10 08:51:13 RST38h: modest... it suxx badly in 42-11 Dec 10 08:51:16 oh hey, I have two :) Dec 10 08:51:20 * RST38h hates that fucking excuse for a mail client and whoever came up with it Dec 10 08:51:35 (I dont even use it, though I might've tapped the email icon by mistake once or twice) Dec 10 08:51:53 * ShadowJK wonders if the DSP is part of "core" on powertop Dec 10 08:52:16 or iva2 Dec 10 08:52:35 PaulFertser: I don't. Dec 10 08:52:44 are firmware updates painless on n900 or is it something like we had on earlier versions - backup, reflash, restore? Dec 10 08:52:51 I just get annoyed at Nokia for my battery lasting 2.5 hrs Dec 10 08:52:51 luke-jr: do you by any chance know who does? Dec 10 08:52:52 :p Dec 10 08:53:00 nope Dec 10 08:53:20 Arkenoi: diablo had non-reflashing updates Dec 10 08:53:30 Arkenoi: maemo5 is supposed to have that way too Dec 10 08:53:48 sounds good Dec 10 08:54:33 OY! Atleast with maemo you can do the reflashing with Linux! Dec 10 08:54:41 it's an improvement! Dec 10 08:55:05 no powertop on any of the repos I'm aware of so far Dec 10 08:55:07 luke-jr: no wonder, you use .30 with gentoo and i've been told .30 lacks almost all PM. Dec 10 08:55:17 DocScrutinizer, it must be there, I managed to install it? Dec 10 08:55:33 * Myrtti waited for a year to get her N95 updated because she had no Windows machine - and then on a first date she was hooked by the line "I've got a Windows laptop in my hotel room, do you want me to flash yours" Dec 10 08:55:35 DocScrutinizer51: nokia customers are so clueless they have no use for it? ;) Dec 10 08:55:42 My N810's battery degraded to unusably in like 1.5 years Dec 10 08:56:18 My E70 never got any newer firmware, and my E75 supported OTA updates already.. Dec 10 08:57:06 then I read the vim pocket guide I got as a present while he was flashing the phone. Dec 10 08:57:49 I'm so scared to go maemo now Dec 10 08:57:55 Just cause the stores closing down Dec 10 08:57:58 Frightens me Dec 10 08:58:22 iDialekt: the stores are a fairly new thing, and things worked fine before they existed Dec 10 08:58:27 s/are/were/ Dec 10 08:58:27 Myrtti meant: iDialekt: the stores were a fairly new thing, and things worked fine before they existed Dec 10 08:58:38 True Dec 10 08:58:41 PaulFertser: no, I am running .21 Dec 10 08:58:56 diablo Dec 10 08:59:05 But it scares me into thinking of less north American support than they already don't have Dec 10 08:59:20 ShadowJK: E70 got 3 firmware updates, then nothing Dec 10 08:59:53 Myrtti: LOL Dec 10 09:00:03 Myrtti: it was a mixed feeling, wasn't it? Dec 10 09:00:22 RST38h, I must've bought mine after the last one :-) Dec 10 09:00:34 Dammit. I hope maemo gets more software support soon Dec 10 09:00:35 PaulFertser: what, the flashing or the vim pocket guide? Dec 10 09:00:49 the pocket guide was, yes. I'm an emacs user. Dec 10 09:00:57 which is why he bought and gave it to me Dec 10 09:01:06 iDialekt: what sw support are you talking about? Dec 10 09:01:22 Myrtti: PICO. Dec 10 09:01:24 I dunno just more apps in general I guess. Dec 10 09:01:43 iDialekt: How typical... Dec 10 09:01:45 later, I got mixed feelings about the flashing too, when he told me it wasn't the first time he had used that line to pick up girls :-DDDDD Dec 10 09:01:49 Wide selection. I know there are a lot being porter Dec 10 09:01:55 AAAANYway Dec 10 09:01:59 Ported Dec 10 09:02:39 Like IM clients, video applications, multiple browsers? Google maps? Dec 10 09:03:02 google maps? what do you mean, ported? Dec 10 09:03:14 there's a program called google maps too Dec 10 09:03:17 Is there a google maps application for maemo platform? Dec 10 09:03:27 ShadowJK: for linux? URL or it didn't happen Dec 10 09:03:30 Or simply have to visit the web ? Dec 10 09:03:33 Myrtti, not for linux, no Dec 10 09:03:41 ShadowJK: touché Dec 10 09:04:43 All I'm saying is for someone that is on the fence with switching platforms.. One would worry about the popularity of an OS for support in the form of apps, community, future compatibility etc Dec 10 09:05:06 I'm aware that most techies or gurus may not care Dec 10 09:05:54 They just wait and defend the platform no matter what the cost because they are developing for it or just inspired by the nature of the os itself Dec 10 09:05:54 hm, with killall -STOP xchat temporarily, CPU is even spending some time in C4 (completely stopped?).. with xchat active, CPU never went to deeper sleep than 250MHz.. I guess this is why I get the feeling that me using the thing seems to have very little impact on battery life compared to letting it just sit untouched in pocket (with xchat running) Dec 10 09:06:18 Hence sentenced like the one above Dec 10 09:06:24 Sentences * Dec 10 09:07:07 Well most techies or gurus aren't worried, because the platform is so similar to mainstream linux... it's not like symbian, which is more like a bunch of people had come together and designed something as developer hostile as possible Dec 10 09:07:11 So, does anyone have any hints on finding powerhogs on n8x0 pretty please? Or am i /ignored by too many participants already? Dec 10 09:07:45 ShadowJK: Completely understandable Dec 10 09:08:14 Well I'm one of those users simply ready to switch platforms but am fearful of the unknown. Unfamiliar Dec 10 09:08:24 PaulFertser: htop was the old way :P Dec 10 09:08:36 Although from my experience the n900 functioned similar to symbian . Wasn't too scary Dec 10 09:09:34 Stskeeps: sure, but somehow at least some stats on power states would be nice to be able to properly evaluate the impact of killing some suspcious app. Dec 10 09:09:47 PaulFertser, find/google for ftd and ftd-plugin-bme, might be floating around somewhere still.. "Average phone current" field is the instantaneous consumption of power. You can make it log to a file, which comes in handy when you want to average the instantaneous consumption over, say, a minute or so. Close/open/remove/add stuff and see if power consumption changes. The meter is not useful when connected to charger Dec 10 09:09:50 PaulFertser: yeah.. see if it works with TIMER_STATS and wifi Dec 10 09:10:50 Stskeeps: i'll try. Not exactly handy without proper serial console since upon starting mer something segfaults and then the system remains unaccessible via cdc_ether. Dec 10 09:11:12 ShadowJK: Ok, that sounds promising, thanks :D Dec 10 09:12:15 * ShadowJK is sad to see Nokia Energy Profiler missing from production N900 :( Dec 10 09:12:41 guess it wasnt ported Dec 10 09:12:42 ShadowJK: request it? :P Dec 10 09:12:46 * PaulFertser imagines some evil-nokia conspirology explanation Dec 10 09:12:47 red: it does exist it seems Dec 10 09:13:04 oooohh, it's a COOKIE Dec 10 09:13:16 payware via ovi once it launches? Dec 10 09:13:36 the s60 version is free Dec 10 09:14:08 Stskeeps, I saw someone requested it on the mailing list already... the replies were kinda vague :/ Dec 10 09:14:23 hmm, slowness went away after second reboot as i was prepared to reflash, interesting ;D Dec 10 09:14:27 ShadowJK: write something with BME_Protocol.. Dec 10 09:14:27 :P Dec 10 09:14:42 Let's hope it hasn't changed :) Dec 10 09:14:49 didn't check yet Dec 10 09:15:05 guess we'll find out when my n900 burns when i try to install toggles' hald-addon-bme on my n900 Dec 10 09:16:16 DocScrutinizer51: cool page (about DBUS), is dbus-send-speaker-off the ways to put it in silent mode? Dec 10 09:16:31 well, bme on N8x0 crashed/died whenever fed garbage or the app talking to it not eating all data, so if you don't disable lifeguards it'll just throw reboots at you.. wait, no initfs with dsme on n900... hm, this could be interesting? :) Dec 10 09:16:58 dsme exists still Dec 10 09:17:55 So I guess boot from emmc/sd and fish bme&friends out of nand? Dec 10 09:18:14 or did you get the binaries deal worked out and implemented already? Dec 10 09:18:43 well everything kinda got thrown up in the air once i got the maemo.org job, so re-evaluating things Dec 10 09:18:47 :P Dec 10 09:19:18 tested transmission yesterday, 600kb/sec 1 torrent 40 connections and my phone was freezing like hell Dec 10 09:19:42 funny, I thought that binaries thing would've been exactly the thing covered by your job description :) Dec 10 09:19:55 i dont suppose rtorrent is available for maemo via apt-get? Dec 10 09:21:34 i prefer dling podcasts via toansmission due the timed throttling functionality Dec 10 09:21:54 as opposed to like gpodder Dec 10 09:24:00 jebba900: did repartition work for you? Dec 10 09:24:11 I think best would be NAND flash only holding /boot Dec 10 09:24:34 and the rest normal / and /home separation, /home maybe FAT32 for win users Dec 10 09:31:10 really wow Dec 10 09:31:34 slonopotamus: you got a n900 for free? Dec 10 09:31:41 Stskeeps, yes! Dec 10 09:31:56 slonopotamus: scary Dec 10 09:32:07 slonopotamus: they must really be trying to kill gentoo for n8x0, it must be a competitor ;p Dec 10 09:32:23 * slonopotamus starts believing in santa claus again Dec 10 09:33:24 so how did they know you were a tablet developer? Dec 10 09:36:24 good morning Dec 10 09:36:47 Stskeeps, dunno. i only saw a girl who just gave it to me, she had no idea what it is all about. she suggested contacting to manager who sent me email initially Dec 10 09:37:14 scary Dec 10 09:39:41 why does the phone vibrate while i click the touchscreen sometimes Dec 10 09:39:45 Stskeeps, ah! earlier, someone from same company invited me to n900 presentation here. but i _didn't_ go :) Dec 10 09:39:49 ah Dec 10 09:40:02 red: That is called haptic feedback. Dec 10 09:40:36 can be disabled without disabling vibration alltogether? Dec 10 09:40:45 red: Sure, display settings Dec 10 09:40:50 Stskeeps, however i don't see how not going to presentations make you receive $1k presents :) Dec 10 09:40:54 ah Dec 10 09:40:58 slonopotamus: playing hard to get? Dec 10 09:41:05 i somehow thought sound Dec 10 09:41:14 stupid heh Dec 10 09:42:03 anyone else got n900 for free? :) Dec 10 09:42:38 got it ty Dec 10 09:42:47 I got 2 for free, and one I had to pay for. Dec 10 09:42:49 meh. now i need to migrate my stuff from both n800 and phone there Dec 10 09:43:06 mece, 2? :) Dec 10 09:43:14 it's for work Dec 10 09:43:24 i got it for 160e cheaper if that counts Dec 10 09:43:35 mece, doesn't count :) Dec 10 09:44:05 slonopotamus, well in that case I did not get an N900 for free. Dec 10 09:44:31 had 3 iphones break down on me in 1,5 months so i requested to change device with my provider Dec 10 09:45:21 shitty hardware + apple naziing the appstore was enuff :p Dec 10 09:45:40 Jaffa, do you accidentally know who likes gentoo in nokia? :) Dec 10 09:46:34 timeless, or you ^ :) Dec 10 09:49:37 Morning, all Dec 10 09:49:40 slonopotamus: Absolutely no idea. Dec 10 09:49:58 Jaffa, morning :) Dec 10 09:50:41 slonopotamus: got it? :) Dec 10 09:51:04 wazd, yep o_O Dec 10 09:51:24 slonopotamus: congrats :) Dec 10 09:51:54 slonopotamus: and yeah, I hate you so much :D Dec 10 09:52:28 wazd, man, it wasn't my fault :) it's all them, snetworks.ru Dec 10 09:52:55 yeah, and them too :D Dec 10 09:54:57 if theres a bug in bugzilla, and it has been "reproduced internally", theres no need to comment ur affected by it right? just a vote is good enough? ;o Dec 10 09:56:29 lcuk: pint Dec 10 09:56:52 hmm, that typo'll get a better response than ping Dec 10 09:57:03 :D Dec 10 09:57:06 frals: Correct. Dec 10 09:57:09 frals, I guess so. Bugzilla is not a good place to vent. Dec 10 09:57:17 righto, ty :) Dec 10 09:57:27 frals: In fact, if you're not adding any info, just a "me too", voting is always better rather than cluttering up the comments. Dec 10 09:57:40 lbt_: in lcuks case "bacon" might work better? ;) Dec 10 09:57:48 frais OTOH if it's WORKSFORME then treat it like a chatroom.... as far as I can tell... Dec 10 09:58:06 aye thats what i figured.. judging by the bugzilla mailspam lately i wasnt so sure anymore :P Dec 10 10:04:27 DocScrutinizer51: are you interested to try hostmode on n900? Dec 10 10:04:47 PaulFertser, do you have a plan? Dec 10 10:04:59 ShadowJK: a little investigation plan, yes. Dec 10 10:05:09 ShadowJK: requires multimeter Dec 10 10:05:15 Hey folks Dec 10 10:05:35 Is anyone who works on telepathy-butterfly for Maemo 5 about? Dec 10 10:05:37 ShadowJK: and a reasonable cable you can attach to n900. Dec 10 10:06:26 I'm guessing you either don't have one or don't want to ruin yours :) Dec 10 10:06:30 slonopotamus: someone likes gentoo in nokia? Dec 10 10:06:34 * timeless_mbp ponders Dec 10 10:06:48 i think i've heard one or two people mention that, but i can't recall whom Dec 10 10:06:53 ShadowJK: i do not have n900 or else i'd try for sure. Dec 10 10:07:18 what would you measure? Dec 10 10:07:27 ShadowJK: http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-developers/2009-December/022855.html Dec 10 10:08:02 timeless, scroll half an hour back (when i endered channel) Dec 10 10:08:05 Basically, telepathy-butterfly has stopped managing to connect to MSN Messenger at all, ever, and I wonder whether anyone else has seen the problem Dec 10 10:08:26 ????, ?? Dec 10 10:08:37 In denying other aspects of the FOIA request, the Army stated 'disclosure of this information is likely to cause substantial harm to the Department of the Army's competitive position in the gaming industry.' Dec 10 10:09:01 wazd, http://slonopotamus.livejournal.com/118678.html (in russian) Dec 10 10:09:59 slonopotamus: what? really? Dec 10 10:10:19 RST38h, absolutely really Dec 10 10:10:38 peterbrett: my icq connection no longer works too Dec 10 10:11:34 slonopotamus: well, nagrada nashla geroya. Dec 10 10:11:42 RST38h: The funny thing is that it was working fine, and now doesn't work even on Wifi (where phone company funny business shouldn't be an issue) Dec 10 10:11:46 (act #2, actually) Dec 10 10:11:59 Does anyone know how to find out who the maintainer of an extras-testing package is? Dec 10 10:12:01 RST38h, that's kinda surprising :) Dec 10 10:12:02 peterbrett: tried rebooting already? Dec 10 10:12:17 peterbrett: go to extras-testing list of apps and look it up? Dec 10 10:12:46 slonopotamus: time to do something useful with it though =) Dec 10 10:13:00 err... how i switch language on n900? :D Dec 10 10:13:07 RST38h: Googling has failed to locate the extras-testing list of apps! Got a hint for me? Dec 10 10:13:09 slonopotamus: damn) Dec 10 10:13:33 * RST38h sighs Dec 10 10:14:06 peterbrett: http://maemo.org/packages/repository/qa/fremantle_extras-testing/ Dec 10 10:14:16 wazd: They definitely DO NOT LIKE you =) Dec 10 10:14:26 It is getting pretty ridiculous really Dec 10 10:14:32 Ah, thanks Dec 10 10:15:15 RST38h: yeah, I'm out of any explanations too :) Dec 10 10:17:05 * timeless_mbp decides red must be a finnish speaker Dec 10 10:17:33 :( Dec 10 10:18:13 timeless_mbp, from the chat or did you look at the hostname? Dec 10 10:18:22 or perhaps the channel list Dec 10 10:18:22 RST38h: that's not ridiculous, that's humiliating :) Dec 10 10:18:41 list of channels he's (?) in Dec 10 10:18:46 wazd: entities that are not sentient cannot humiliate =) Dec 10 10:19:05 timeless_mbp, aw Dec 10 10:19:19 I win Dec 10 10:19:34 that is the error of 'reification' - speaking as if abstract entities are actors in time. Dec 10 10:19:55 I was scrolling up looking at what he said and not seeing any tell-tale finnish->english side-effects, feeling defeated I couldn't spot anything :-) Dec 10 10:20:17 hi! does anyone know when n900 will be released and on which network? Dec 10 10:20:26 has been released. Dec 10 10:20:40 network would depend on what country do you want it to be on Dec 10 10:22:01 It does quad-band gsm and tri-band wcdma (900, 1700, 2100?)... should work on almost any network in the world, except if you're in japan or china (and some other places) where there are major networks that do not use gsm or wcdma on compatible frequencies Dec 10 10:22:19 US, Canada too Dec 10 10:22:31 according to your host you're UK based Dec 10 10:22:41 shouldn't it jsut work on all there? Dec 10 10:22:50 ShadowJK: i was kinda surprised myself Dec 10 10:23:04 because i was about to offer enus1 to red but when i did /whois ... well Dec 10 10:23:59 Someone asked to try my N900 the other day at work, and the first comment was "huh, why is it in english" Dec 10 10:24:09 doh Dec 10 10:24:16 heh Dec 10 10:24:36 what were they expecting, chinese? Dec 10 10:24:41 finnish ofc Dec 10 10:24:46 lol Dec 10 10:24:46 It was actually surprising that it came defaulting to English and Finnish keyboard. Dec 10 10:24:49 :D Dec 10 10:25:01 Don't mind though, that's what I wanted. But unusual for a phone Dec 10 10:25:21 I'd say "Hooray for sane defaults", but I fear for my life Dec 10 10:25:27 heh Dec 10 10:25:39 Hukka: so, in theory it's supposed to pick up settings from your sim Dec 10 10:25:40 btw, is that region detection in emailclient accurate for the rest of you? it suggest i should get a list of finnish service providers instead of swedish.. :P Dec 10 10:25:47 but the keyboard behavior is kinda different Dec 10 10:25:57 timeless_mbp: Then it didn't, since my previous one was in Finnish Dec 10 10:26:04 frals: is your sim finnish or swedish? Dec 10 10:26:09 swedish Dec 10 10:26:13 (by that, i mean country, not language) Dec 10 10:26:19 ya Dec 10 10:26:20 Hukka: did you have sim in when booting first time? Dec 10 10:26:51 Hm, good question. I think I didn't, since my coworkers got their hands on it first Dec 10 10:26:57 I had $nativelanguage set on my Nokia E75. Each week I encountered some new dialog that took effort to decipher. The best way of decoding is to ignore what it says and consider what each word might have been originally. Dec 10 10:27:05 frals: that *sounds* like a bug, i'm pretty sure it'd be nice if you filed a bug and indicated your operator and some other bits (everything from the regional control panel, and all the env vars) Dec 10 10:27:20 there's actually some output somewhere in dmesg or somewhere iirc that indicates what we know about the sim Dec 10 10:27:27 which is probably what's important (not certain) Dec 10 10:27:40 okey, ill do that Dec 10 10:27:43 timeless_mbp: you decide correctly :P Dec 10 10:28:07 ShadowJK: there's your linguistic evidence :) Dec 10 10:28:07 Myrtti: I am in UK .... Dec 10 10:28:11 (decide_d_) Dec 10 10:28:18 Myrtti: I was interested in doing some development on it Dec 10 10:28:29 (and not the stem a native speaker would have chosen) Dec 10 10:28:55 :) Dec 10 10:29:04 Talking about SIM import, would have been nice if N900 would have asked which way my contacs are written (familyname first or second...) Dec 10 10:29:05 ruskie: yes, I am Dec 10 10:29:10 red: anyway, the context for this is that enus1/engb1 have a label for the vibration which actually makes sense Dec 10 10:29:25 ct529, have you checked store.nokia.co.uk yet ? they are offering it iirc Dec 10 10:29:26 Hukka: hrm Dec 10 10:29:37 what did it actually do? Dec 10 10:29:56 (and again, i think that'd be a nice bug to have, although it'll probably land as FiH instead of FiFsvc) Dec 10 10:30:04 ruskie: nope .... they say to preorder it without giving any potential delivery date .... and it does not say if it is going to be offered on any network .... Dec 10 10:30:09 timeless_mbp: I had names written in style of "Surname Firstname" and it imported them all taking the surname as the first name and vice versa Dec 10 10:30:11 timeless_mbp: yeah it was quite self-explanatory when I knew what I wanted to disable. I think I saw it the first time when going through configs, but didn't understand what it actually did :P Dec 10 10:30:11 ct529: mobilefun.co.uk, nokiaretail.co.uk etc. Dec 10 10:30:15 timeless, does it also have a more descriptive string for "Power saving mode"? Dec 10 10:30:23 Which mixed the ordering majorly Dec 10 10:30:29 ShadowJK: um Dec 10 10:30:31 good question Dec 10 10:30:55 Myrtti: ruskie: thanks Dec 10 10:31:01 ruskie: Myrtti: is there a SDK for Maemo that can be used on Linux desktop? Dec 10 10:31:15 ct529: The only one... Dec 10 10:31:27 ct529: most certainly there is Dec 10 10:31:57 Hukka: the only one? Dec 10 10:32:11 yeah Dec 10 10:32:21 ct529: There is SDK only for Linux. If you want to dev under Windows you need to run a virtualized Linux under it Dec 10 10:32:23 peterbrett: I have butterfly going wacky on me aswell. If someone adds me in msn, I cannot start a convo with any online contact until I reboot Dec 10 10:32:23 the one sdk that is there is for GNU/Linux systems ;) Dec 10 10:32:24 whops .... mobilephone.co.uk lists it at £400 realease in january .... ouch .... Dec 10 10:32:27 I can reply once messaged thought Dec 10 10:32:49 ShadowJK: sadly, it appears that it does not Dec 10 10:32:50 same problem if I roam with msn online, it gets jammed :P Dec 10 10:32:57 * timeless_mbp goes to find the ui element Dec 10 10:33:00 ruskie: Hukka: thanks, I had not understood what you meant .... Dec 10 10:33:11 ct529: oo, cheap Dec 10 10:33:32 oh right Dec 10 10:33:46 * timeless_mbp takes this moment to beat Exchange Server with a brick Dec 10 10:33:51 think I'll go ahead and change my phone language to english Dec 10 10:33:52 we use kde/kontact on client side + egw with groupdav on server side, so it seems Maemo makes sense .... Dec 10 10:34:02 most apps are that way already so no point sticking with Finglish Dec 10 10:34:21 I'm sure I'll figure it out eventually, but where is the desktop data saved? Which icons are there, at which locations and widget configurations? Dec 10 10:34:24 it is going to send me an email *every* day, until i get my mailbox size under 90%, telling me my mailbox is almost full Dec 10 10:34:34 It doesn't seem to be a file anywhere, so my next guess is gconf Dec 10 10:34:56 timeless_mbp: fail-o-rama Dec 10 10:35:06 I'd like to create shortcuts for xterm that immediately launch ssh Dec 10 10:35:34 ime the administrator eventually notices and deletes email for you Dec 10 10:36:28 Hukka: http://www.matkapuhelininfo.com/keskustelu/showpost.php?p=1058184286&postcount=945 apparently has some info Dec 10 10:36:42 :-< Dec 10 10:36:50 I broke a nail AGAIN Dec 10 10:36:58 Myrtti: I was reading that thread too, but was only on page 11 :) Dec 10 10:37:00 moar coffee Dec 10 10:37:04 It's huge... Dec 10 10:37:18 what we really want is a ssh ui which allows adding shortcuts to specific hosts on desktop Dec 10 10:37:24 suihkulokki++ Dec 10 10:37:28 hukka, it might be simpler to create an application for it (I _think_ it's just placing a description file into /usr/share/somewhere) Dec 10 10:37:31 Myrtti: But it seems that the poster has the same exact need as I :) Dec 10 10:38:20 flux: It seems like this is exactly what the linked post does Dec 10 10:41:19 suihkulokki: that shouldn't be too hard Dec 10 10:41:24 hi there Dec 10 10:42:55 andre__: ping? Dec 10 10:43:49 good morningish Dec 10 10:50:15 yay, no work until wednesday Dec 10 10:50:37 snow? Dec 10 10:50:37 :P Dec 10 10:51:14 the "you can't carry over vacation days to the next year"-crunch Dec 10 10:51:15 Myrtti: Hmh, doesn't work, and hard to say why Dec 10 10:51:27 The option doesn't appear in the shortcut menu Dec 10 10:51:37 "but don't use them at christmas when everyone else also wants to" Dec 10 10:51:48 JoshTriplett1, pong Dec 10 10:51:49 ah Dec 10 10:51:52 and .fi never stops for snow :) Dec 10 10:52:11 andre__: 2 things. First, GeneralAntilles suggested I poke you about getting canconfirm/editbugs on the Maemo Bugzilla, so that I can help triage bugs and such. Dec 10 10:52:33 * ShadowJK considers spending his free time on another go at wrangling mplayer-neon out of the sdk Dec 10 10:56:03 nm, spellibg errors in config Dec 10 10:56:09 JoshTriplett, sounds good. mom Dec 10 10:56:17 andre__: Thanks! Dec 10 10:57:10 JoshTriplett, seen http://wiki.maemo.org/Bugsquad#Triaging ? Dec 10 10:58:27 I always get a heartattack @ reboot seeing half empty desktops Dec 10 10:58:46 andre__: I have, yes. I don't necessarily plan to do so much triage that I need to automate the giving of stock answers, though. :) I mostly want to have the ability to triage a bug when I run into it and know it ought to get duped/brainstormed/product-changed. Dec 10 10:58:53 morning all Dec 10 10:58:59 JoshTriplett, ah, I see :) Dec 10 10:59:15 JoshTriplett, very welcome and appreciated, thanks! Dec 10 11:00:02 JoshTriplett, but what was the second thing? :) Dec 10 11:00:12 andre__: Permission bits show up now, thanks. Dec 10 11:01:08 sure. thank *you* Dec 10 11:01:40 andre__: I wondered if you might be the right person to ask regarding bug 6334. I have an N900 with the random reboot problems, and I wondered if I could do anything in particular to help the debugging efforts. Dec 10 11:01:41 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6334 random reboots Dec 10 11:01:47 I've posted the information requested in the bug already, but I'll gladly try any other debugging technique that might help. Dec 10 11:02:29 andre__: Thus far, it arrived today, and it has rebooted a few dozen times. That hasn't stopped me from loving everything *else* about it, but... Dec 10 11:03:17 andre__: And about a dozen reboots ago it stopped booting, as in bug 6350; I had to reflash the rootfs to make it boot again. Dec 10 11:03:18 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6350 random reboot bricks device Dec 10 11:03:27 JoshTriplett: It is a weird bug as I have lost of weird stuff installed and my devices never reboot. Dec 10 11:03:39 s/lost/lots/ Dec 10 11:03:40 X-Fade meant: JoshTriplett: It is a weird bug as I have lots of weird stuff installed and my devices never reboot. Dec 10 11:04:03 Heh, I've never actually seen a bot that interpreted s///. Dec 10 11:04:14 Nice. Dec 10 11:04:22 X-Fade: Whereas my reboots started well before I installed anything. Dec 10 11:04:32 JoshTriplett: Yeah, really weird. Dec 10 11:04:49 I think I will download the SDK .... has anyone tried to install it on other devices apart N900? Dec 10 11:04:55 (unofficially) Dec 10 11:05:01 maemo itself? Dec 10 11:05:03 The one thing I can't easily remember: whether I enabled Wifi before the first reboot occurred. I don't *think* I did, but I might have. Dec 10 11:05:06 ~mer Dec 10 11:05:11 and the maemo-on-omap project Dec 10 11:05:15 i heard mer is http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer, or on #mer Dec 10 11:06:29 andre__: Feel free to just say "no, I can't help with that". But I figured that as debugging goes, it helps to interactively poke at things with a user who has the problem. Though, naturally, it doesn't seem to have rebooted itself in the last hour or so; reverse demo gods. :) Dec 10 11:07:18 JoshTriplett: Try things like flightmode, on/off charger, with sim, without sim? Dec 10 11:07:45 i've misplaced my stylus again Dec 10 11:08:01 wonder how long until i will lose it haha Dec 10 11:08:05 JoshTriplett: My 2nd N900 also rebooted about every hour, but it couldn't be wifi because that was broken :) Dec 10 11:09:04 BernardV: 2nd? Dec 10 11:09:10 Dare I ask what happened to the first? ;) Dec 10 11:09:15 X-Fade: Thus far, I've had it reboot both while idle and not touching it, while bringing it out of idle, and while actively using it. No particular userspace application causes it; in fact, I've had it happen while at the desktop and not running anything. Dec 10 11:09:16 Yeah I have my 3rd now in one week Dec 10 11:09:23 First had a broken mic Dec 10 11:09:25 X-Fade: I haven't tried flightmode, or without a SIM. Dec 10 11:09:37 X-Fade: I *have* had it happen on and off the charger, IIRC. Dec 10 11:10:11 Stskeeps: it does not look like it is connected with running Maemo on other portable devices, but with running Freemantle on N8xx devices ..., Dec 10 11:10:13 JoshTriplett: It is just to find out what can trigger it. Try as many different things ;) Dec 10 11:10:16 Stskeeps: whatever Freematnle is Dec 10 11:10:18 JoshTriplett, I also have no idea with that report. Nokia is investigating, but it's... difficult. I have never seen it myself either :-( Dec 10 11:10:24 ct529: Fremantle is Maemo5.0 Dec 10 11:10:36 ct529: and it's connected to other portable devices, but primary people are n8x0 users Dec 10 11:10:41 But the reboot..if I recall correctly I always had network connection when it happend (gprs) Dec 10 11:10:53 ct529: it runs on a Nintendo Wii.. Dec 10 11:10:53 :P Dec 10 11:10:55 JoshTriplett, but feel free to share your impressions (especially ehat *cannot* be the reasons, hehe) in that report... Dec 10 11:11:02 argh Dec 10 11:11:17 how i switch language on n900? Dec 10 11:11:23 andre__: If this continues for the next couple of days, I'll probably have to exchange my device; I don't know if I can count on it as a primary phone if this continues. If I *do* have to return it, anything in particular I can do to make sure it ends up in a developer's hands? ;) Dec 10 11:11:39 menu -> settings -> regional and language -> Dec 10 11:11:50 slonopotamus: settings -> language & region Dec 10 11:11:53 language & region* Dec 10 11:11:58 no, i mean, during typing Dec 10 11:12:04 slonopotamus: text input Dec 10 11:12:09 enable a second language Dec 10 11:12:09 it has 2 langs configured Dec 10 11:12:10 Stskeeps: :D .... no very portable (cannot imagine going aorund with a WII in my pocket ) :D Dec 10 11:12:18 andre__: Assuming it reproduces without a SIM card and without wifi, both of which which I can try to test at some point, then it ought to remain reproducible with the same device. Dec 10 11:12:19 enabled already Dec 10 11:12:20 sym-at Dec 10 11:12:22 JoshTriplett, none that I know... I know of at least one Nokian who also has such a broken device and already gave it to developers Dec 10 11:12:25 err sym-space Dec 10 11:12:27 OK. Dec 10 11:12:29 or ctrl-space, whatever Dec 10 11:12:33 omfg Dec 10 11:12:34 top left button + space Dec 10 11:12:42 andre__: And did it stay broken, or magically fix itself when a developer laid hands on it? ;) Dec 10 11:12:44 JosefAssad, so, yeah, they investigate. however, of course there could be several reasons why this happens :-/ Dec 10 11:12:48 argh. JoshTriplett ^ Dec 10 11:12:52 timeless_mbp, and how i was supposed to figure that out? Dec 10 11:12:59 slonopotamus: there's a user guide Dec 10 11:13:03 JoshTriplett, hehe, only thing I know is that they are working on it... Dec 10 11:13:10 you should ask "how am i supposed to find the user guide" Dec 10 11:13:31 Stskeeps: I thought more like porting to things like HTC Hero or netbooks Dec 10 11:13:39 perhaps a more interesting question is: how does it decide which language to use Dec 10 11:13:39 Yeah, bug 6334 has all the signs of a bug report with a sufficiently generic description to make everyone with a remotely similar problem chime in and confuse things. Dec 10 11:13:41 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6334 random reboots Dec 10 11:13:46 And it'll only get worse until fixed. Dec 10 11:13:51 meh :) i watched through quickstart video. it said 'that's all you need to know to use n900' Dec 10 11:13:56 given that hardware keyboard languages and software keyboard languages are unrelated Dec 10 11:14:13 slonopotamus: yeah, um, remind me to shoot someone :( Dec 10 11:14:21 slonopotamus: there's a maemo5ui team section on youtube Dec 10 11:14:26 you need to watch all the videos there Dec 10 11:14:31 (seriously) Dec 10 11:14:42 andre__: Oh, and I just remembered, it definitely happened while away from home today, which means it happened while *not* associated with any wifi network. So, that partly rules out wifi, though it could still happen that wifi AP scanning causes problems. Dec 10 11:15:09 timeless_mbp, i can't configure wifi because i need english input for password :D Dec 10 11:15:34 slonopotamus: well, you'll have to find the userguide on your own :( Dec 10 11:15:45 slonopotamus: do us a favor, call nokia care Dec 10 11:15:50 and complain about these things Dec 10 11:15:57 specifically this problem with wifi Dec 10 11:16:02 don't mention any knowledge Dec 10 11:16:07 act like a normal end user Dec 10 11:16:31 indicate that you watched the how to video that came with your device, etc Dec 10 11:16:36 just like you did here, but to them Dec 10 11:18:04 andre__: Well, thanks for the update. I'll toss a bit more info into the bug. One question: have any of the analyses progressed far enough to figure out if this represents a hardware or software problem? Since it happens with some hardware devices and not others, that would seem to point at hardware... Dec 10 11:18:55 (cool, finnish banks are on strike Dec 10 11:20:33 timeless_mbp: remains to be seen are the hampsters that power the internet banking on strike too Dec 10 11:20:53 it sounds like it's a possibility Dec 10 11:21:04 great country you've got here Dec 10 11:21:23 JoshTriplett, not that I know Dec 10 11:22:44 timeless_mbp: apart from the strike season things work pretty well in comparison to some other countries... Dec 10 11:26:28 timeless_mbp: hmm in the last few weeks finnish pilots, ground crew and now bankers have been on strike.... is the skiing good atm or something? Dec 10 11:26:53 no mountains Dec 10 11:26:56 and no snow Dec 10 11:27:17 ok, a dusting which was collected into an incredibly tiny hill at the bottom of kaampi Dec 10 11:27:42 lbt_: it might be that they can't strike during christmas Dec 10 11:27:45 and want attn Dec 10 11:28:33 iceskating? Dec 10 11:29:44 why would the strike during christmas Dec 10 11:29:57 either they're on holiday or get triple salary Dec 10 11:30:31 have you heard the latest though Dec 10 11:30:43 the union issued a warning of a strike on ICT sector Dec 10 11:31:20 the planned schedule is apparently on 28th Dec - 2nd Jan 2010 Dec 10 11:31:24 I lol'd Dec 10 11:32:03 it's easy to strike when no ones around Dec 10 11:32:23 wait what, banks on strike? Dec 10 11:32:36 yes Dec 10 11:32:37 jeremiah, ping Dec 10 11:32:46 Erto? Dec 10 11:32:52 that too Dec 10 11:32:57 I should maybe switch on TV more often than once every 3 years Dec 10 11:33:03 All banks? just some banks? Dec 10 11:33:05 all Dec 10 11:33:18 or was it just nordea Dec 10 11:33:31 huh. is it a one-day strike or are they striking until their demands are met or something Dec 10 11:33:40 http://www.erto.fi/ajankohtaista/tietoalantyotaistelu/brieflyinenglish Dec 10 11:33:41 bank accounts in Switzerland ftw :D Dec 10 11:33:44 no, all Dec 10 11:34:00 * Stskeeps sure hopes nordea poland isn't Dec 10 11:34:00 shdb: on Monday Dec 10 11:34:04 gah Dec 10 11:34:08 ShadowJK: on monday Dec 10 11:34:11 only the brick stores are closed so it doesn't effect anything :P Dec 10 11:34:19 net bank and atms work Dec 10 11:34:28 andre__: Silly question, because I don't know enough about the software architecture of how Maemo 5 boots: when a 32wd_to reboot occurs, does the kernel's printk time normally remain fixed over the reboot? Because I have uptime 5 minutes, but dmesg gives times like 14558.985382. Dec 10 11:35:20 JoshTriplett: no clue at all here Dec 10 11:35:25 OK. Dec 10 11:35:37 I remember the last time banks were on strike, was probably 80s... I think there was warning beforhand, and the expectations that it would take ages, because society seemed to convert to entirely cash-based for the duration.. Employers paid in cash etc :-) Dec 10 11:36:33 lol Dec 10 11:36:52 I'm hearing something similar happening here for banks on strike Dec 10 11:37:19 TV and radio striked too, though I dont remember if it was at the same time as the banks, all you could get was this looping clip of a musicbox. On all tv channels, all radio channels. The tune still haunts me today.. Dec 10 11:37:34 lol Dec 10 11:37:44 so many things to watch on the net nowadays Dec 10 11:37:57 I think if they really did go on strik it would be for the better actually(TV and radio) Dec 10 11:38:09 yeah but this was before internets :) Dec 10 11:38:16 yeah I'm aware of that Dec 10 11:38:24 still books are alawys an alternative :) Dec 10 11:38:49 let's just hope the librarians don't strike at the same time Dec 10 11:38:58 not a big loss ;) Dec 10 11:39:00 ebooks :) Dec 10 11:39:22 * ruskie spent 1000 eur on two gadgets this year... Dec 10 11:39:22 and there are VCRs these days too!.. and whatever came after those Dec 10 11:39:32 N900 and Hanlin Jinke V3 eink reader Dec 10 11:39:43 betamaxes Dec 10 11:39:45 lets see... Dec 10 11:40:09 N900, thinkpad x300, openrd-client, sennheiser hd595..... Dec 10 11:40:15 Myrtti, so is it just monday? Dec 10 11:40:23 (and, ofcourse, a new desktop) Dec 10 11:40:27 arachnist, I only meant those two toghtere.. I had other purchases as well ;) Dec 10 11:40:42 new mb and phenom II X3 705e ;) Dec 10 11:40:50 actually two new systems this year Dec 10 11:40:51 ruskie: i only meant to say that i spend too much Dec 10 11:40:52 how's the openrd-client? Dec 10 11:40:55 one at the start and one now :) Dec 10 11:41:02 ahh Dec 10 11:41:05 nearly all shops ordered n900 but don't have it, unbelievable Dec 10 11:41:05 ShadowJK: three days Dec 10 11:41:07 ShadowJK: nice as a router/torrent-box Dec 10 11:41:08 well money is for spending Dec 10 11:41:27 ow and of course two atom mini itx boards Dec 10 11:41:31 single and dual-core Dec 10 11:41:36 one for router the other for server Dec 10 11:41:49 omg... I did buy a lot this year Dec 10 11:41:59 though I don't think I went over 2k yet Dec 10 11:42:12 i'm sure i did Dec 10 11:42:53 the desktop and new 22" for it would be quite close to 2k Dec 10 11:43:00 * ShadowJK spent 7000 on car Dec 10 11:43:42 rather sure I didn't... the atom stuff was ~250 eur, both systems 250 eur... 620 for the n900, 300 for the V3, 40 eur for the headphones hmm Dec 10 11:43:48 I think that's the lot Dec 10 11:44:06 I spent the amount of money needed to buy a N900 to a mattress and a topper for it. Dec 10 11:44:35 hmm anyone have any clue how long the battery should last while listening to internet radio over 3g? Dec 10 11:45:13 ruskie, if it does 3 hours i'd be impressed Dec 10 11:45:24 Any tips as to where I can get libgles1-sgx-img-common to be able to try out Quake III Arena on the N900? Dec 10 11:45:44 maybe fremantle/sdk ? Dec 10 11:45:49 I must have listened to internet radio over wifi for 2 hours yesterday, and the battery held out until the end of the day Dec 10 11:46:10 * lbt_ waits for the internet pixies to go on strike Dec 10 11:46:14 lol Dec 10 11:46:25 hmmm Dec 10 11:46:25 if that happens the world grinds to a halt Dec 10 11:46:52 need to start setting up personal N nodes to have connectivity even when everything else goes foobarf Dec 10 11:46:58 * lbt_ offers the pixies a cookie Dec 10 11:49:09 ruskie: By that do you mean I need to install the full SDK on the PC to get it? *confused* Dec 10 11:50:28 Has there been any talk on what will be the multimedia framework when QT is the main toolkit? Dec 10 11:51:22 Lupu, add the sdk repo to the device and search there? Dec 10 11:51:39 I do hope both QT and GTK will be around not just one or the other Dec 10 11:52:04 i wouldn't mind if gtk was dropped ;) Dec 10 11:52:06 ruskie: Ok, that makes significantly more sense. I didn't know of that repository, thanks. Dec 10 11:52:11 Dec 10 11:52:42 Hukka: pulseaudios creators are doing a special multimedia QT stack. Dec 10 11:52:56 oh my Dec 10 11:53:01 Lupu, hmm I don't actually see it and I have it Dec 10 11:53:10 erm I have the repo that is Dec 10 11:53:21 SpeedEvil, do you have links for that ? :) Dec 10 11:53:21 SpeedEvil, you sure you mean pulseaudio's creators? Dec 10 11:53:28 Lupu, do see: libgles1-sgx-img opengles-sgx-img-common Dec 10 11:53:47 SpeedEvil, i was told the qt mobility people are doing it Dec 10 11:53:49 SpeedEvil: But PA is only audio, or are they planning something with video too? Dec 10 11:53:51 Lupu, and that's in the nokia-binaries repo Dec 10 11:54:12 SpeedEvil: More specifically I'm interested is gst going to stay or be changed Dec 10 11:54:27 ruskie: I already added the repo behind this link -- http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/eula/index.php Dec 10 11:54:28 Sorry. Dec 10 11:54:41 ruskie: Still no installation candidate. Dec 10 11:54:45 I was attempting comedy. Dec 10 11:55:02 SpeedEvil, ehehe Dec 10 11:55:08 Hukka: yeah - nebulous plans with 'it's all changing, and it'll be shiny!!!' aren't great. Dec 10 11:55:09 Lupu, so none of those two satisfy it: libgles1-sgx-img opengles-sgx-img-common Dec 10 11:55:13 ? Dec 10 11:55:26 if IIRC gstreamer will be used in m6 Dec 10 11:55:32 * VDVsx checks Dec 10 11:55:56 yup :http://www.slideshare.net/qgil/maemo-harmattan-qt-and-more Dec 10 11:55:58 I love the internets <2 Dec 10 11:56:00 ♥ even Dec 10 11:56:15 gstreamer will be used, yes Dec 10 11:56:23 http://pastebin.com/m2334318 ♥ ♥ ♥ Dec 10 11:56:29 but they want to add a qt friendly wrapper for easy shit Dec 10 11:57:09 Hm Dec 10 11:57:10 which is probably going to be a failure like phonon was, and get deprecated for m7 Dec 10 11:57:21 zaheerm, lol Dec 10 11:57:35 Are the needed components to bring QT and gst together on M5 already here? Dec 10 11:57:55 Hukka, yes, gstreamer is a c library so can be used by any c++ app including qt apps Dec 10 11:57:58 If it's supported, might as well start developing against that, since it will be the new thing Dec 10 11:58:04 zaheerm, phonon is still present in Qt 4.6 Dec 10 11:58:14 VDVsx, phonon is deprecated in 4.6 Dec 10 11:58:29 zaheerm: Well, yes in principle, but there's doable and sensible Dec 10 11:58:43 Mhm, I am stuck in the maps application. Dec 10 11:58:44 zaheerm, humm, http://qt.nokia.com/doc/4.6/examples-multimedia.html Dec 10 11:58:57 And I have a vague feeling that gst and phonon people don't get along that well Dec 10 11:59:07 ruskie: libgles1-sgx-img: Depends: opengles-sgx-img-common (= 0.20090218.55.9+0m5) but 0.20091104.6+0m5 is to be installed Dec 10 11:59:19 Wow, phonon going away? What happened, isn't it quite new anyway? Dec 10 11:59:34 (I don't really follow the desktop linux world...) Dec 10 11:59:38 it is not going away, it'll be on life support Dec 10 12:00:12 active stuff will be on the multimedia stuff in qtmobility Dec 10 12:00:33 Lupu, maybe will need to wait for an upgrade then Dec 10 12:00:39 for reference new stuff is here: http://qt.gitorious.org/qt-mobility/multimedia Dec 10 12:01:30 VDVsx, zaheerm: Do you have any hints on where to find discussion about the reasoning and plans? Dec 10 12:01:54 Hukka, I think is there a Qt mobility list/forum Dec 10 12:02:17 ruskie: Alright, thanks. Dec 10 12:02:24 Hukka, more info and some rants here:http://labs.trolltech.com/blogs/2009/09/03/multimedia/ Dec 10 12:02:30 Hukka, also phonon is basically just a playback api at present Dec 10 12:03:03 Hukka, and qtmobility's multimedia plans to handle capture and other non playback stuff Dec 10 12:03:09 zaheerm: Ok. I've just seen some news headers at Ars Technica or like that amount to "Wow, Phonon is so great and does your dishes too!" Dec 10 12:03:31 * RST38h moos diabolically Dec 10 12:03:35 And then promptly ignored them "Blah, kde... ion for me!" :) Dec 10 12:03:57 * VDVsx moos back Dec 10 12:04:03 But it seems that now that I have the N900 here, I can't avoid the desktop world anymore :) Dec 10 12:04:08 * SpeedEvil samples RST38h for moobox. Dec 10 12:04:14 i guess we'll see wrt qtmobility's work whether it will be decent enough Dec 10 12:04:16 * RST38h feeds Phonon architects to the Tentacled One, saying "serves you well, you megalomanicala motherfuckers" Dec 10 12:04:27 did someone attended the Qt mobility presentation at the summit ? Dec 10 12:04:35 Heya VDVsx Dec 10 12:04:46 Hukka, personally as a developer, i would just use gstreamer's api..that will work on m5, m6 and probably m7 too Dec 10 12:05:10 Morning, all Dec 10 12:05:24 zaheerm: Can't hurt to at least understand it, then. Thank you for the recommendation Dec 10 12:05:28 VDVsx, i missed that, didn't know there was one Dec 10 12:05:38 ah no slides Dec 10 12:05:46 I hope Maemo 6 has a Plasma-based desktop : Dec 10 12:05:47 Slides are evil anyway. Dec 10 12:06:00 I wish all conference talks were actually recorded, but no :/ Dec 10 12:06:03 I was in the 770 room in the bluez 'hacking' session Dec 10 12:06:17 plasma... that brought my quad core computer to its knees Dec 10 12:06:38 VDVsx, how easy is it to add profiles? is there any documentation on doing that? Dec 10 12:06:59 zaheerm, maemo5 ? Dec 10 12:06:59 VDVsx, i want badly to be able to expose call log and contacts to my car's bluetooth Dec 10 12:07:16 VDVsx, yes maemo5... Dec 10 12:07:25 ShadowJK: well, sucks to be you. :-P Dec 10 12:07:34 zaheerm, depends if it works under bluez-linux is not that difficult Dec 10 12:07:38 so. no xchat for fremantle? Dec 10 12:07:47 ie bluez upstream Dec 10 12:07:47 its in -devel Dec 10 12:07:58 Hukka: recording went wrong Dec 10 12:08:06 slonopotamus, it's in extras-devel Dec 10 12:08:07 Hukka: qt4.6 is on tech preview on N900 already Dec 10 12:08:12 frade, ruskie , thx Dec 10 12:08:14 (and don't try to change settings, it crashes) Dec 10 12:08:17 lardman: Ah. Well, they tried. Dec 10 12:08:18 judging by what ive seen from you earlier i assume you know it might be buggy... yaddayadda ;) Dec 10 12:08:26 oh, sorry I was scrollbacked Dec 10 12:08:39 lbt_: Yes, I had that impression though I wasn't that far yet. And I was planning on using that Dec 10 12:08:45 Is there any application to take 'rawer' - ideally raw - but I'm unsure if he hardware can do that - pics/ Dec 10 12:08:50 full-sized pics Dec 10 12:08:52 Though that will also depend on pyside Dec 10 12:09:02 I'd prefer to use python for as much as I can Dec 10 12:09:11 Hukka: *nod* Dec 10 12:09:22 * lbt_ is more c++ but that may change on n900 Dec 10 12:09:23 OT: does anyone knows a good FFT lib in C++ ? :) Dec 10 12:09:35 SpeedEvil, there's a topic on talk about that iirc... DSLR like controls I believe the topic is named Dec 10 12:09:46 VDVsx: by definition ... no Dec 10 12:09:55 use a C one with wrappers :) Dec 10 12:10:09 FFT is not OO :) Dec 10 12:10:13 I've not got round to doing fftw, sorry Dec 10 12:10:18 hmm odd... I have a contact with a birthday... and when I first imported it I saw the birthday icon in the calendar now I don't. Dec 10 12:10:23 is next on the list after LAPACK Dec 10 12:10:34 VDVsx: what are you going to do with it? Dec 10 12:10:47 lbt_, remember the name ? Dec 10 12:11:04 lardman, it's for my thesis Dec 10 12:11:15 ah ok Dec 10 12:11:51 do i have to have SIM-card installed to import contacts? Dec 10 12:11:55 well I hope to get fftw compiled and in extras-devel by the end of the week Dec 10 12:12:09 lardman, cool :) Dec 10 12:12:16 yeah http://www.fftw.org/ Dec 10 12:12:59 thanks lardman and lbt :) Dec 10 12:13:14 slonopotamus: no, I merged contacts from s60 via BT without having sim in n900 Dec 10 12:13:32 for some reason n900 fails to get contacts from my nokia 3110c Dec 10 12:13:53 slonopotamus: me too Dec 10 12:14:00 PITA Dec 10 12:14:09 no syncml?! Dec 10 12:14:13 however I got them from 3110c to LDIF format Dec 10 12:14:26 how? Dec 10 12:14:32 but buggered if I can get them onto the N900 from a linux desktop Dec 10 12:14:37 gnokki Dec 10 12:14:50 k Dec 10 12:15:11 * lbt_ is really annoyed at the lack of linux->n900 for contacts... but... ya know... Dec 10 12:15:27 I'm having a happy day so who cares :) Dec 10 12:15:33 I still have to figure how to get my SMSs out of the previous phone Dec 10 12:15:46 Does N900 import SMSs from the SIM? Dec 10 12:15:48 Hukka: *nod* gnokki Dec 10 12:15:51 meh, so pricey phone and doesn't support syncml... Dec 10 12:16:07 slonopotamus: I think it's the 3110 - others report success Dec 10 12:16:11 Or did my old phonw store them in phone memory (I hope it can transfer to SIM, ir it did...) Dec 10 12:16:20 slonopotamus: It is supposed to do that, but only over USB and BT. Dec 10 12:16:22 it does do syncml .... but not over tcp Dec 10 12:16:32 Hukka: don't know if it is possible to get them transferred to n900 Dec 10 12:16:41 lbt_: Do you mean gnokii? Dec 10 12:16:42 U haven't found a way Dec 10 12:16:42 And it seems to have a bug somewhere. Dec 10 12:16:47 Hukka: yeah Dec 10 12:16:50 3110 happily syncs to zyb.com Dec 10 12:16:57 I knew it had 2 somethings Dec 10 12:17:01 So not all SyncML solutions find the n900 to be SyncML capable. Dec 10 12:17:35 meh, these both are from nokia. that's a shame to be incompatible. Dec 10 12:18:17 lbt_: Hmm, I wonder... the old phone *does* have a usb connector, but the manual says it's only for repair service Dec 10 12:18:41 * lbt_ waits for sparks.... Dec 10 12:18:46 It's 1650... Because my 3310 broke in September Dec 10 12:19:33 do you also have '9' trailer video? Dec 10 12:19:37 yeah Dec 10 12:19:43 k Dec 10 12:20:14 * timeless_mbp chuckles Dec 10 12:20:27 someone was asking what rule to follow for formatting a time Dec 10 12:20:35 i said "steal the code from another app" Dec 10 12:20:46 http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/search?string=wdgt_va_12h_time_am Dec 10 12:20:46 shows how others use it Dec 10 12:20:46 I'd suggest stealing code from one of them ;) Dec 10 12:20:47 http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/source/libhildonfm/hildon-fm/hildon-file-selection.c#2104 Dec 10 12:20:52 :) Dec 10 12:25:13 Ugh, 10mW WiFi thread on Talk. Dec 10 12:25:25 heh marbles is cool Dec 10 12:25:26 Troubleshooting voodoo. Dec 10 12:26:06 GeneralAntilles: I was wondering about that. autoreducing power till weget a certian fraction of retransmits. Dec 10 12:26:16 GeneralAntilles: but that's prolly not what's talked about Dec 10 12:26:27 The 10/100mW setting is regulatory only. Dec 10 12:26:32 It's not a powersaving setting. Dec 10 12:26:43 It does not affect emitted power? Dec 10 12:26:50 it must save power Dec 10 12:26:51 stupid question: where I can change Call/SMS ringtone? Dec 10 12:26:58 The radio spends so little time in transmission that changing the power level wont affect battery life. Dec 10 12:27:01 hrw: profile iirc Dec 10 12:27:02 yes. Dec 10 12:27:08 Unless you're transmitting a lot. Dec 10 12:27:11 Hi GeneralAntilles Dec 10 12:27:19 lardman: thx Dec 10 12:27:19 hrw: in settings, profile Dec 10 12:27:20 hrw: are you using en(us|gb)? Dec 10 12:27:28 and, actually, since you're reducing your signal strength it can actually increase consumption if you're at the edge of range or having to do a lot of retransmission. Dec 10 12:27:29 And in that case, you're probably going to be burning lots of power elsewhere Dec 10 12:27:36 timeless_mbp: PL lang + EN/GB keyboard Dec 10 12:27:36 it's in profiles, but if you use en(us|gb)1 then this is more obvious :) Dec 10 12:27:50 hrw: well, if you want to switch to enus1/engb1, let me know Dec 10 12:27:58 * iDialekt walks away in shame Dec 10 12:28:03 timeless_mbp: looks like I need to complain about UI again Dec 10 12:28:03 yeah - a megabyte at 54mbps will take less power than a megabyte at 5 Dec 10 12:28:04 otherwise you get to appreciate finnish translated into english translated into polish Dec 10 12:28:38 timeless_mbp: you need to get optimising the Polish strings too! ;) Dec 10 12:28:56 lardman: i need to finish polishing the english before i let people translate to other languages Dec 10 12:29:02 :) Dec 10 12:30:13 lardman: old joke you remind me Dec 10 12:30:22 even when transmitting, 100mW is minor compared to total power use by the wifi Dec 10 12:30:50 Polish guy meets English guy and says: I need to polish my English. then Eng one replies: No, your English is Polish enough. Dec 10 12:31:38 timeless_mbp: the problem with profile settings is that it is hard to notice that there is something under vibration settings ;( Dec 10 12:31:44 ShadowJK: minor - but still non-zero. I could see it giving 2-3 mins more battery life in not uncommon scenarios. Dec 10 12:31:51 hrw: there's a bug filed about that Dec 10 12:31:59 the fix is to defenestrate the ui owner Dec 10 12:32:03 or wait for konttori to become the new owner Dec 10 12:32:11 which iiuc happens sometime next year Dec 10 12:32:13 hrw: :) Dec 10 12:32:21 timeless_mbp: bug number is? I wnt to vote for it Dec 10 12:32:23 timeless: which window? Dec 10 12:32:24 * hrw -> food Dec 10 12:32:27 SpeedEvil, yeah sure :) Dec 10 12:32:31 SpeedEvil: 8th floor, higher is better Dec 10 12:32:38 hrw: but seriously, can i get you to try enus1? Dec 10 12:32:44 ShadowJK: but - 2-3 mins here, 2-3 mins there... Dec 10 12:32:56 defenestration is so hard these days with all the toughened glass around the place Dec 10 12:32:57 The message beeps you get while on a call really suck. Dec 10 12:33:01 ShadowJK: and pretty soon the battery actually charges when you use it. Dec 10 12:33:07 I can never tell if it's call waiting, an SMS, email or IM. Dec 10 12:33:12 GeneralAntilles: the ones for new email are really fun Dec 10 12:33:22 yeah, of course i'm getting mail ever Sync Interval during a business day Dec 10 12:33:28 I notice the vibra sometimes gets a bit angry, too. Dec 10 12:33:51 lardman: http://www.darwinawards.com/darwin/darwin1994-02.html Dec 10 12:33:54 This .fi computer magazine's "wifi battery life" test is so flawed. They tested shoutcast playback, timed it until it died (fair enough). Then they concluded that in real life when browsing the internet, the battery life would be less, because the screen would also be on... lol Dec 10 12:34:18 SpeedEvil: is that the guy demonstrating the unbreakable windows? Dec 10 12:34:24 yes Dec 10 12:34:27 ShadowJK: don't we stop playing music when we turn off the screen? :) Dec 10 12:34:42 ouch Dec 10 12:34:47 timeless_mbp, nope. Dec 10 12:34:52 Wow, secret profile settings- yay! Dec 10 12:35:04 * fnordianslip isn't using his n900 as a proper phone yet, waiting for 3 sim fix. /me wonders how many of the 300 have been using their n900 as their only phone on a daily basis Dec 10 12:35:06 timeless_mbp, videos however stop when media player loses focus Dec 10 12:35:20 fnordianslip: i personally have Dec 10 12:35:40 fnordianslip: I, too, am waiting for that fix- but my 3 sim is data only Dec 10 12:35:52 ShadowJK: how is that flawed to assume that when browsing the device screen is on? Dec 10 12:36:00 since yesterday, it s my main phone Dec 10 12:36:20 tnx Dec 10 12:36:23 fredrin: "of the 300"? Dec 10 12:36:29 fnordianslip, me, since September. Dec 10 12:36:30 I meant fnordianslip Dec 10 12:36:34 Although I'm not a 300 member. Dec 10 12:36:41 tigert: it's flawed to test a property in one usage case, then just adjust the results arbitrarily to make that result fit another entirely different usage case Dec 10 12:36:53 Nokia's New York and Chicago Flagship Stores Closing Too Dec 10 12:36:53 Gadgetoid_mbp: ah right Dec 10 12:36:53 GeneralAntilles: I'll let you off Dec 10 12:37:21 tigert, when browsing, you've got like max 10 seconds of data transfer (or however long the twitter-generation user has patience to wait for a page to load), and then several seconds of no transfer at all. In the shoutcast case, the server is sending a stream at a constant rate, keeping the wifi and CPU awake unable to sleep Dec 10 12:37:23 tigert: for example - idle cpu and wifi most of the time - browsing - + backlight - may be less consumption than active wifi, audio, and cpu Dec 10 12:37:28 I don't know what "300" is, except a movie, but I've used mu N900 as my only phone since Friday Dec 10 12:37:31 Gadgetoid_mbp: "we tested our running speed by walking a mile. when running, it is assumed to be faster still!" :) Dec 10 12:37:40 Hukka: one of hte 300ish that got free phones Dec 10 12:37:57 tigert: Sounds about right Dec 10 12:37:58 SpeedEvil, free device loans for a period of 6 months. Dec 10 12:38:00 RST38h: closing? Dec 10 12:38:09 but couldn't you make it a car analogy? Dec 10 12:38:10 SpeedEvil: Do I count, because mine was free; paid by company :? Dec 10 12:38:12 Hukka: I was thinking that the 300 have had them the longest although I've had mine for 2 weeks, so the 300 part of the question is getting pretty nugatory now Dec 10 12:38:18 GeneralAntilles: yes, ... Dec 10 12:38:30 fnordianslip: 3 sim issue was known very early though Dec 10 12:38:33 * SpeedEvil is using his as his only phone. Dec 10 12:38:41 I'm pondering dropping my landlines. Dec 10 12:38:44 Hukka: he 300 were loaners given out back in september Dec 10 12:38:52 I want my N900 hardware/software transplanted into my N810s chassis Dec 10 12:38:53 fnordianslip, October. Dec 10 12:38:58 N900 is a lot better than the 1650 I had before, but that was just a backup phone anyway Dec 10 12:39:00 Stskeeps: yep. i know. just waiting Dec 10 12:39:09 GeneralAntilles: oh whatever :) Dec 10 12:39:09 fnordianslip: hopefully it should come this month Dec 10 12:39:11 Even calling with that thing was annoying due to horrible sound quality Dec 10 12:39:13 Gadgetoid: mail me both. I have duct tape and a hammer. Dec 10 12:39:13 fnordianslip, I switched to N900 as "carry with me" phone about 3 days after getting it... My old phone is now parked as modem for my LAN. Whether this counts as "only phone" or not I dunno :) Dec 10 12:39:19 Did have a flashlight, though Dec 10 12:39:22 fnordianslip: i've been using my n900(s) as my primary phone for 4 weeks before AMS Dec 10 12:39:28 including 3 weeks traveling through eastern europe Dec 10 12:39:34 SpeedEvil: Err.... maybe not ;) Dec 10 12:39:34 anyone knaws how to solve the marbes GChapter 1 level 4? Dec 10 12:39:41 timeless_mbp: good to know Dec 10 12:39:43 stuck on it for days now *grin* Dec 10 12:39:57 sejo: i solved them on my n800 ages ago Dec 10 12:39:59 sejo: I suggest trying 'enigma' Dec 10 12:40:06 * fnordianslip using vodafone dongle sim currently for data only Dec 10 12:40:21 sejo: It has all the fun of marbles, with added 'you can't breath' functionality Dec 10 12:40:49 X-Fade: amazing, just got a mail that erlang built successfully Dec 10 12:40:50 SpeedEvil: true? Dec 10 12:40:57 * sejo looks it up in the repo Dec 10 12:41:06 woah. it works Dec 10 12:41:06 thomastp: Yeah, although I needed to kill the ip test. Dec 10 12:41:19 X-Fade: oh ? how did you kill it without breaking the build ? Dec 10 12:41:19 thomastp: It was stuck for a whole day there ;) Dec 10 12:41:27 sejo: it's not very similar - it's a memory/accuracy of control game. Dec 10 12:41:30 thomastp: Somehow yes :) Dec 10 12:41:36 sejo: it is addictive though. Dec 10 12:41:40 Speed I'll test Dec 10 12:41:41 X-Fade: I'm curious, how did you do that ? Dec 10 12:41:57 Just killed the ip test processes one by one. Dec 10 12:42:06 And then it continued. Dec 10 12:42:15 timeless_mbp: you wouldn't remember how? Dec 10 12:42:27 err... too long Dec 10 12:43:20 sejo: roughly Dec 10 12:44:16 what is the correct repo to be able to apt-get source mail for exchange ? Dec 10 12:44:24 and what is the name of the package itself ? Dec 10 12:44:38 sejo: yeah, i remember roughly how to solve it Dec 10 12:46:28 melmoth: MfE is part of nokia's packages Dec 10 12:46:33 it's included in the device Dec 10 12:46:34 sejo ... yes Dec 10 12:46:38 you don't "install" it Dec 10 12:47:12 melmoth: not a source package Dec 10 12:47:26 :-( Dec 10 12:47:36 I moved from E66 to N900 yesterday Dec 10 12:47:44 lbt_: can you give me a hint? Dec 10 12:47:51 sejo: yeah, i'm about solved Dec 10 12:47:59 timeless_mbp: I am not so English to notice difference between engb<>engb1 probably Dec 10 12:47:59 so, all we have to see how to play with the calendar is http://maemo.org/api_refs/5.0/beta/calendar-backend/classCMulticalendar.html ? Dec 10 12:48:00 cool timeless_mbp Dec 10 12:48:01 it requires quite a bit of bouncing :) Dec 10 12:48:12 sejo... OK ... sec Dec 10 12:48:13 no example ? (apt-get source calendar-ui also fail) Dec 10 12:48:18 melmoth: calendar.... ARGH Dec 10 12:48:25 timeless_mbp: I cant seem to get them together Dec 10 12:48:28 hrw: ideally the strings will just be easier for you to use Dec 10 12:48:43 sejo: the trick is that you kinda need to sorta free one of them Dec 10 12:48:46 which requires a visit Dec 10 12:48:51 melmoth: the UI things are usually not oss :P Dec 10 12:48:52 timeless_mbp: I use Polish translation Dec 10 12:49:16 speaking of calendar... time to report bugs against it Dec 10 12:49:21 grumble...may be i ll use gpe calendar then. Dec 10 12:49:23 melmoth: mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/ Dec 10 12:49:27 has the open source stuff Dec 10 12:49:27 get the right gold ball out by putting another ball in there Dec 10 12:49:33 sejo: ^^ Dec 10 12:49:39 lbt_: that's what i said :) Dec 10 12:49:46 ok Dec 10 12:49:54 trying tu put another one in there Dec 10 12:50:03 * timeless_mbp gets explosions from solving Dec 10 12:51:28 * AndrewBlack added a huge warning to his Blog abou Maemo-devel/Maemo-testing due to several people asking him to Dec 10 12:52:20 * sejo still trying to get another ball in there :p Dec 10 12:54:42 sejo: asking for too many hints ruins it Dec 10 12:54:47 try to play backward Dec 10 12:54:56 figure out "where would a ball land if it did land in there" Dec 10 12:55:04 "where would it come from if it landed in there" Dec 10 12:55:16 "how would i get a ball positioned there so it could land there" Dec 10 12:55:25 after a while, you end up at your current state Dec 10 12:55:32 or a reachable state Dec 10 12:55:40 timeless_mbp: true, trying all options Dec 10 12:57:55 timeless: or madness Dec 10 12:58:13 i think nintendo owns marble madness Dec 10 12:58:54 5139 5294 5477 5479 5540 5790 5954 5955 6051 6431 6521 6651 Dec 10 12:59:11 those bugs already got my vote... and I am just starting Dec 10 12:59:12 argh Dec 10 12:59:40 hrw: did you not find the bug for the scroll indicator? Dec 10 12:59:57 one copy was filed by me (probably in browser about bookmarks) Dec 10 13:00:02 most of them sound like nokia model numbers too Dec 10 13:00:09 timeless_mbp: not yet. going though calendar now Dec 10 13:00:26 ShadowJK: have you seen the nokia store display picture? Dec 10 13:01:17 timeless: nope Dec 10 13:02:18 hrw ... I thought that was a marbles solution in code.... Dec 10 13:04:13 ~curse brainstorm Dec 10 13:04:14 May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, brainstorm ! Dec 10 13:06:24 * timeless_mbp pokes ShadowJK Dec 10 13:07:42 ~curse me Dec 10 13:07:43 May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, arachnist ! Dec 10 13:08:23 oops Dec 10 13:09:05 oh, that's awsome :-) Dec 10 13:09:34 I'm going thru calendar bugs to see if there is one like "alarm should show current time, not alarm time". If you happen to see one.... Dec 10 13:10:10 Hi Dec 10 13:11:05 can somebody tell me what stream formats work on the N900? Dec 10 13:11:10 heuu, en c++ si j ai un objet toto , instance d une classe klass qui defini une metode plop, je l appelle comment ? toto->plop() ? toto.plop() toto::plop() ? Dec 10 13:11:13 oups Dec 10 13:11:41 tot.plop() ? Dec 10 13:11:46 ah, i see, an Alarm shows current time, but an event doesnt Dec 10 13:12:06 ni luck with tot.plop() :) Dec 10 13:13:21 moo.plopp() Dec 10 13:14:06 what does the :: syntax mean? A static object? Dec 10 13:14:24 * lardman needs to dig out a C++ book Dec 10 13:14:27 andre__: wow, they fixed a sb-ism Dec 10 13:14:29 * Stskeeps is impressed Dec 10 13:14:39 hey lardman Dec 10 13:14:49 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=403284 Ah, finally. Dec 10 13:14:54 hi anidel Dec 10 13:15:00 was trying Latitude as on the Google Latitude thread... Dec 10 13:15:05 lardman: :: is the scoping operator. Dec 10 13:15:15 Stskeeps, looks like they have some time now Dec 10 13:15:17 doesn't seem to get the position on mine.. weird.. Dec 10 13:15:18 derf: hmm, ok, need to read a book Dec 10 13:15:25 anidel: really? Dec 10 13:15:31 anidel: doesn't get your position? Dec 10 13:15:33 lardman: I've installed maemo-geolocation Dec 10 13:15:48 class::member means lookup "member" from the given class. Dec 10 13:15:57 derf: ah ok Dec 10 13:15:58 lardman: and then started the browser using your link.. but it can't find automatically my location Dec 10 13:16:14 ::something means lookup "something" from the global scope. Dec 10 13:16:20 anidel: there's a test page for the geolocation stuff, might be worth checking it's returning something Dec 10 13:16:50 anidel: afaiu latitude doesn't work Dec 10 13:16:50 will check that Dec 10 13:16:51 There's also namespaces, which use the same syntax. Dec 10 13:16:58 but i could be wrong Dec 10 13:17:05 ok, wrote long part about beloved brainstorm and why I hate it. now time to write something maybe more positive Dec 10 13:17:08 maps/facebook should work Dec 10 13:17:18 hrw: you're positive it's useless? :) Dec 10 13:17:20 timeless: according to Qole it does: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=419444&postcount=60 Dec 10 13:17:27 anidel: http://browserspy.dk/geolocation.php might work, not sure Dec 10 13:17:28 anidel: wow Dec 10 13:17:40 timeless_mbp: does for me Dec 10 13:17:42 and for Jaffa Dec 10 13:17:57 ok, so um Dec 10 13:18:07 * timeless_mbp goes to find the isntructions for installing mameo-location Dec 10 13:18:11 s/isn/ins/ Dec 10 13:18:11 timeless_mbp: no, next part of post will touch PIM Dec 10 13:18:11 and my wife can see where I am on her android phone, and vice versa Dec 10 13:18:28 lardman that works.. weird Dec 10 13:18:28 lardman: sounds like a bad deal :) Dec 10 13:18:31 timeless_mbp: and can be not so positive anyway Dec 10 13:18:33 lol Dec 10 13:18:50 tethered husband Dec 10 13:19:02 latitude, giving husbands less latitude Dec 10 13:19:05 I can tell if she goes shopping! ;) Dec 10 13:19:13 Bleh, still no shipment notification from DDP. Dec 10 13:19:24 well I can just shut down the browser, hers is built-in Dec 10 13:19:29 Which means it's going to show up after I've left town. Dec 10 13:19:33 Assuming it ships at all. Dec 10 13:20:38 GeneralAntilles: so. got time for a couple of strings? Dec 10 13:20:51 timeless_mbp, sure. Dec 10 13:26:33 fnordianslip: "3 sim fix"? Dec 10 13:26:45 andre__, ping? Dec 10 13:26:52 GeneralAntilles, pong Dec 10 13:27:12 xorAxAx: there's a bug and topics on t.m.o. fixed in unreleased builds apparently Dec 10 13:27:15 andre__, where the hell do I put a bug about the touchscreen settings control panel? Dec 10 13:27:29 fnordianslip: ah, the company "3" Dec 10 13:27:39 GeneralAntilles: calibration? Dec 10 13:27:43 xorAxAx: yep Dec 10 13:27:55 Stskeeps, the power save setting for the touchscreen is completely useless Dec 10 13:27:55 GeneralAntilles, but I have one report about the screen noise in there already! Dec 10 13:27:58 and I'd like to see it removed. Dec 10 13:28:05 ah Dec 10 13:28:09 camkeyd++ Dec 10 13:28:16 arachnist, indeed. Dec 10 13:28:18 GeneralAntilles, just drop it under Control Panel Dec 10 13:28:25 Now the proximity sensor needs to toggle fullscreen. Dec 10 13:28:38 * fnordianslip wants to set up a company called " " Dec 10 13:29:11 fnordianslip: ; DROP TABLES? Dec 10 13:29:21 fnordianslip: like the ( ) party? Dec 10 13:29:29 Stskeeps: huh? Dec 10 13:29:35 that tried to steal all the blank votes Dec 10 13:29:42 Anybody got the original string for that setting handy? Dec 10 13:29:50 fnordianslip: http://xkcd.com/327/ Dec 10 13:30:06 Settings -> Touchscreen -> Whatever the last checkbox in that dialog is called. Dec 10 13:30:35 Stskeeps: nice Dec 10 13:31:15 hmm Dec 10 13:31:45 i think i got a tricky trick to import contacts Dec 10 13:32:04 an xkcd widget for n900 would be nice Dec 10 13:34:09 till- found the car-charging problem?! http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=416562&postcount=15 Dec 10 13:34:22 fnordianslip: do it Dec 10 13:34:24 timeless_mbp: anidel tells me he had to reboot after installing the maemo-geolocation plugin to get Latitude to see it Dec 10 13:34:40 Anybody find that string for me? :) Dec 10 13:34:42 not technically reboot Dec 10 13:34:50 latitude actually sees the geolocation plugin?!? Dec 10 13:34:50 but probably kill browserd Dec 10 13:34:59 restart the browser stuff yeah Dec 10 13:35:21 Will make Arkenio happy Dec 10 13:35:28 timeless_mbp: do you have a bug for that UI problem? it is hard to find Dec 10 13:35:28 He likes to be followed =) Dec 10 13:36:16 5750 Dec 10 13:36:22 gracias Dec 10 13:36:23 search was: is:maemo indicator Dec 10 13:36:43 ROFL.... just saw the Samsung bada announcement : http://hothardware.com/News/Samsung-Enters-Smartphone-Wars-With-Interactive-OS/ Dec 10 13:36:53 *love* the last comment ... superb :) Dec 10 13:37:07 anidel: browserd needs to be restarting Dec 10 13:37:14 s/ing/ed/ Dec 10 13:37:15 Jaffa meant: anidel: browserd needs to be restarted Dec 10 13:37:24 lbt_: the art is nice Dec 10 13:37:49 gpodder is pretty wonderful. would be cool if it could also scan a page that has no proper rss/xml Dec 10 13:38:04 timeless_mbp: meh... wallpaper and N800 style screen edges... Dec 10 13:38:21 lbt_: i mean the boat Dec 10 13:38:40 ahhh Dec 10 13:39:29 jaffa: yeah I knew it could be that.. I waited after closing all the browser windows hoping for it to shut down.. Dec 10 13:39:37 jaffa: in the end I restarted the device :p Dec 10 13:40:10 anidel: at one point closing all browser windows did restart browserd Dec 10 13:40:15 Anyway it's like on the desktop, after installing a plugin you need to restart the browser Dec 10 13:40:16 i need to figure out if we changed that Dec 10 13:40:25 yep Dec 10 13:40:27 timeless: may be I didn't wait enough Dec 10 13:40:35 nah Dec 10 13:40:41 timeless_mbp: I expect it dies after a few secs? Dec 10 13:40:46 Couldn't happen here: http://linux.slashdot.org/story/09/12/09/2215253/Malware-Found-Hidden-In-Screensaver-On-Gnome-Look Dec 10 13:40:48 i can't remember Dec 10 13:40:51 Can we see cellular signal strength anywhere on N900? Dec 10 13:40:51 (i'd need to ask) Dec 10 13:40:54 ok Dec 10 13:41:05 pupnik_: yes Dec 10 13:41:08 where? Dec 10 13:41:09 pupnik_: the bars above the number? Dec 10 13:41:11 now we need to develop a nice desktop widget Dec 10 13:41:16 OK, somebody using English strings but without timeless's stringset installed. Open Settings -> Touchscreen and tell me the string on the last checkbox in the dialog. Dec 10 13:41:18 pupnik_: next to the battery level Dec 10 13:41:19 ~hail contacts for forgetting default view Dec 10 13:41:20 showing your friends is already easy... Dec 10 13:41:20 * infobot bows down to contacts for forgetting default view and chants, "I'M NOT WORTHY!!" Dec 10 13:41:51 GeneralAntilles: "Touchscreen vibration" IIRC Dec 10 13:41:59 ah thank you - i get "cellular network not available" may be out of range in my house Dec 10 13:41:59 Jogglers have arrived!! Dec 10 13:42:00 Jaffa: dooubtful :) Dec 10 13:42:05 Jaffa, scroll. Dec 10 13:42:07 is there anything in repos that will let me set arbitrary v4l controls? Dec 10 13:42:22 * andre__ wondering who's responsible for https://garage.maemo.org/svn/maemoexamples/trunk/maemo-examples/ Dec 10 13:42:31 anidel: need to dechiper the Google api and then the location information can be made available to whatever app wants it Dec 10 13:42:53 how can i enable "desktop" widgets? Dec 10 13:43:07 andre__: why Mr Maemo of course Dec 10 13:43:08 tap desktop, hit gear Dec 10 13:43:29 or the porn team... Dec 10 13:43:30 lbt, got his phone number? Dec 10 13:44:10 * lbt_ grins at xxxx@maemo.org and wonder what goes on behind closed doors at Nokia.... Dec 10 13:44:30 lbt_: from memory 4xs in finland means something Dec 10 13:44:32 lbt_: That is an Australian beer. Dec 10 13:44:33 lardman: and then? Dec 10 13:44:41 xorAxAx: tap the title Dec 10 13:44:46 tap the menu Dec 10 13:44:49 and then? Dec 10 13:44:56 there is no "add widget" Dec 10 13:44:56 * ShadowJK has no idea what it means Dec 10 13:44:56 but really, if you're using an english, install my strings and then do this stuff Dec 10 13:45:13 lbt_: http://www.xxxx.com.au/ :) Dec 10 13:45:14 xorAxAx: is for me Dec 10 13:45:14 argh Dec 10 13:45:17 xorAxAx: i have "Add Widget" Dec 10 13:45:22 lardman: thanks - I now have that google page on my desktop Dec 10 13:45:22 * lbt_ analyses the neat packaging and concludes it's not from Nokia.... then ducks and runs Dec 10 13:45:29 Woo. Dec 10 13:45:38 * SpeedEvil finds screen protector for n900 in post. Dec 10 13:45:45 it doesn't see my simcard Dec 10 13:45:48 SpeedEvil: ooh any good? Dec 10 13:45:54 <`wicked`> hi Dec 10 13:45:54 OH FFS Dec 10 13:45:57 SpeedEvil, brand? Dec 10 13:46:00 X-Fade: even the ausies can spell ringtone correctly Dec 10 13:46:01 timeless_mbp: i dont Dec 10 13:46:10 xorAxAx: ctrl-shift-p Dec 10 13:46:14 timeless_mbp: in my scratchbox Dec 10 13:46:18 ShadowJK: ebay Dec 10 13:46:19 oh Dec 10 13:46:21 timeless_mbp: nop Dec 10 13:46:22 you didn't say scratchbox Dec 10 13:46:32 you probably don't have any installable widgets Dec 10 13:46:45 or maybe the sdk sucks Dec 10 13:46:47 my durasec cleartec has gathered an incredible amount of scratches in just two weeks :) Dec 10 13:46:48 * timeless_mbp shrugs Dec 10 13:46:49 * lbt_ rather likes that example code... it even tests for the existence of executables rather than just crashing Dec 10 13:46:51 there is a widget shown already Dec 10 13:46:55 <`wicked`> i've a question.. Dec 10 13:47:04 so its b0rked Dec 10 13:47:05 xorAxAx: delete the widget from the desktop Dec 10 13:47:09 see if you can get it back Dec 10 13:47:09 <`wicked`> for the developers.. Dec 10 13:47:10 ShadowJK: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190353399122&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT Dec 10 13:47:11 Screw it, posting the bug with the replacement strings. Somebody else can translate. Dec 10 13:47:23 timeless_mbp: nope :-/ Dec 10 13:47:32 xorAxAx: file a bug against the sdk Dec 10 13:47:37 oh, hard case Dec 10 13:47:38 fun. Dec 10 13:48:12 <`wicked`> a porting of maemo on a N97 nokia phone.. Dec 10 13:48:17 <`wicked`> is not possible? Dec 10 13:48:34 <`wicked`> I hate symbian os.. Dec 10 13:48:36 I dunno, it might be just me, but sometimes I tap an icon in the main menu, the icon lights up and then nothing happens. Dec 10 13:49:02 so the click arrived at the software, but the software failed to start the resp. menu entry. Dec 10 13:49:06 * ccooke tries to stop laughing at http://www.amazon.com/Denon-AKDL1-Dedicated-Link-Cable/dp/B000I1X6PM Dec 10 13:49:08 `wicked`: N97 has a somewhat different screen resolution. might be impossible to run normal maemo apps Dec 10 13:49:28 `wicked`: so, if you can get access to enough pieces anything is possible Dec 10 13:49:32 <`wicked`> :\ Dec 10 13:49:33 arachnist: and lot of maemo apss are hrdcoded to 800x480 screen anyway Dec 10 13:49:35 SpeedEvil: :) Dec 10 13:49:38 n97 has 640x360 Dec 10 13:49:43 hypothetically there was one device similar to the n800 which was able to run maemo4.something Dec 10 13:49:49 <`wicked`> maemo apps are write for a 480x800 res? Dec 10 13:49:51 * hrw just sstarted maemo5 on 800x800 screen Dec 10 13:50:15 <`wicked`> damn nokia -.- Dec 10 13:50:18 too bad that maemosdk lacks some settings Dec 10 13:50:30 (that one device normally ran symbian) Dec 10 13:51:15 `wicked`, 800x480, actually. Dec 10 13:51:18 But that's not the real problem. Dec 10 13:51:26 The real problem is getting Linux booting on the N97. Dec 10 13:51:33 and to that I can only say, "good luck". Dec 10 13:52:04 timeless_mbp: which product is it? Dec 10 13:52:07 <`wicked`> tnx M) Dec 10 13:52:12 <`wicked`> ;) Dec 10 13:52:17 sdk has its own product iirc Dec 10 13:53:31 `wicked`: not really specifically written for 800x480, just nobody ever tests anything else =) Dec 10 13:53:35 /49 Dec 10 13:54:08 q Dec 10 13:54:10 how can i find out the sdk version? settings -> general doesnt exist Dec 10 13:54:11 oops Dec 10 13:54:16 this is not vim Dec 10 13:54:25 <`wicked`> nobody who can try it? Dec 10 13:54:41 <`wicked`> nobody wanna risk a n97? ;) Dec 10 13:54:46 you Dec 10 13:54:49 obviously Dec 10 13:54:57 he doesn't dare Dec 10 13:55:09 `wicked`: Different cpu, requires signed firmware. Good luck. Dec 10 13:55:50 <`wicked`> ok, white flag, i'm surrender Dec 10 13:56:12 what packet do I need to compile vala? Dec 10 13:57:53 lardman: this link might help for Google Latitude, looks like someone already reverse engineered the protocol: http://forum.openhandsetdevelopers.com/google-maps-with-my-location-my-location-t19.html Dec 10 13:58:02 `wicked`, easier to just sell the N97 and buy an N900. Dec 10 13:59:39 anidel: looking Dec 10 14:01:12 don't register in order to get access to the link.. I did but the link is now dead Dec 10 14:01:23 so don't even bother to register Dec 10 14:01:32 ok Dec 10 14:01:53 <`wicked`> :( Dec 10 14:02:10 but ok, those urls look familiar from my tcpdump Dec 10 14:02:17 <`wicked`> I'm not ONassis ;) Dec 10 14:02:23 andiel, oh man, hate when that happens. I don't like to register to random stuff, but to register for nothing is really annyoing Dec 10 14:02:27 <`wicked`> goodbye ^_^ Dec 10 14:02:34 annoying having all the png and jpeg data sent in the same tcpdump, but c'est la vie ;) Dec 10 14:02:51 mece: happens Dec 10 14:03:01 lardman: use wireshark + filtering? Dec 10 14:03:39 yep Dec 10 14:03:59 though all the data comes from the same server so hard to filter out the wrong packet types Dec 10 14:04:06 or at least it was for me using it for the first time Dec 10 14:04:38 http://marcin.juszkiewicz.com.pl/2009/12/10/n900-second-day/ Dec 10 14:04:54 hi mgedmin ssvb Dec 10 14:05:06 hi Dec 10 14:05:17 hi hrw Dec 10 14:06:31 anidel: actually that code is not needed as we can use liblocation to get location info Dec 10 14:06:57 lardman: isn't that code used to update the location? Dec 10 14:06:58 though it does seems to send some data, which is good Dec 10 14:07:13 lardman: ah no.. you're right Dec 10 14:07:36 I think it's using Google to get lat/lon from cell data? Dec 10 14:07:37 i haven't found powertop yet for m5. if it does exist, can someone tell me where? Dec 10 14:07:47 lardman: yeah I think so Dec 10 14:09:39 eeeks .. bada is a korean word and means fail :o) Dec 10 14:09:52 bada ... boom Dec 10 14:10:01 fnordianslip: would be nice Dec 10 14:10:09 only a high level C++ API .. means everythnig has to be rewritten from scratch Dec 10 14:10:16 hrw: are you going to vote for these bugs? :) Dec 10 14:10:23 (not that it helps an iota) Dec 10 14:11:05 * fnordianslip imagines timeless_mbp sounding like Marvin from h2g2 Dec 10 14:11:18 cehteh: Dec 10 14:11:20 uhm Dec 10 14:11:41 anidel: there's lots of cookies and other crap in the sniffed data, no clue is that's normal Dec 10 14:11:59 never having tried to analyse pct/ip/html data before Dec 10 14:12:06 s/pct/tcp Dec 10 14:12:11 if it would be at least POSIXish Dec 10 14:12:15 cehteh: "bada" is a polish verb, and it means "to examine" or "to probe" Dec 10 14:13:00 fnordianslip: heh, i don't sound like marvin Dec 10 14:13:20 timeless_mbp: perhaps not, but i like to think you do :) Dec 10 14:13:51 heh Dec 10 14:14:02 the ui designers told me last night that my voice is distinctive Dec 10 14:14:26 timeless_mbp: so is marvin's Dec 10 14:14:57 any javascript gurus about? Dec 10 14:15:17 the javascript code on that Google Latitude page seems to be build up of loads of little functions Dec 10 14:15:34 each is defined and then used in the definition of another, ad infinitum (nearly) Dec 10 14:15:43 is that a standard method of obfuscation? Dec 10 14:16:30 should be easy enough to just unwind the function definitions to get the final functions really, so not sure why that would be done Dec 10 14:17:10 I guess looking at the javascript might be easier than trying to guess the api from the sniffed data Dec 10 14:17:29 * timeless_mbp watches So long and thanks for all the fish Dec 10 14:17:36 lardman: firebug Dec 10 14:17:42 lardman: it's great Dec 10 14:17:48 lardman: roughly latitude is probably a java app Dec 10 14:17:52 compiled Dec 10 14:18:02 most google apps are these days i believe Dec 10 14:18:09 (gwt?) Dec 10 14:18:17 any thoughts? Dec 10 14:18:58 probably the thing to do is to take something (jsd? jstracer?) and have it record the actual used paths Dec 10 14:19:05 with full variable refs Dec 10 14:19:26 hmm, did anyone see my monologue, or has it vanished into the ether? Dec 10 14:19:27 because what matters to you is roughly speaking the standard control flow, not the loaded code Dec 10 14:19:53 lardman: Isn't that stuff of their standard javascript API which they made public a while ago? Dec 10 14:20:00 dunno Dec 10 14:20:12 but I guess it must do the stuff the page does? Dec 10 14:20:27 so it must be possible to work out how it works from that code? or not? Dec 10 14:20:53 timeless_mbp: I will Dec 10 14:21:24 hrw: it's worth noting that decisions shouldn't be made based on votes Dec 10 14:21:25 timeless_mbp: will not help rather but I have a right to vote for them and for me they are bugs Dec 10 14:21:39 timeless_mbp: I am aware of that Dec 10 14:21:45 bugzilla is a self selecting non representative sample of our potential userbase Dec 10 14:22:00 Clearly the right way is to call the users. Dec 10 14:22:01 that said, our ui designers are not better at design choices Dec 10 14:22:02 :) Dec 10 14:22:32 standard response to pushback other than ignoring is to "make it a preference" Dec 10 14:22:34 lardman: Okay, that code is strange. Dec 10 14:22:44 it took mozilla 5-7 years to learn that this is *not* the right answer Dec 10 14:23:03 It's debatable. Dec 10 14:23:23 For example I want a preference not to ignore volume buttons in media player when screen blanks Dec 10 14:23:42 which for some would be very annoying as those buttons will get pressed accidentally for some users Dec 10 14:23:53 I want really working usb-storage Dec 10 14:23:59 SpeedEvil: we're going to replace media player as it doens't support subtitles Dec 10 14:24:01 [63924.144952] sd 10:0:0:0: [sdg] Attached SCSI removable disk Dec 10 14:24:01 [63924.146811] sd 10:0:0:1: [sdh] Attached SCSI removable disk Dec 10 14:24:04 and thats all Dec 10 14:24:18 hrw: sounds like a host problem? Dec 10 14:24:18 hrw: It diddn't work for me either, when I plugged it into my printer. Dec 10 14:24:21 lardman: No idea. It probably is something in the skynet-universe which is generating that code. Dec 10 14:24:26 looks like I need to dig under desk again just to get it working Dec 10 14:24:27 hrw: which supports usb mass storage Dec 10 14:24:46 SpeedEvil: did you file a bug? Dec 10 14:24:59 range: I've no clue, but do you think that the code that uploads and interprets the downloaded data should be there somewhere? Dec 10 14:25:04 timeless_mbp: roothub->hub->n900 and roothub->hub->hub->n900 works for charging but not quite for storage Dec 10 14:25:08 * hrw -> coffee Dec 10 14:25:10 bb in 20min Dec 10 14:25:45 usb1 or usb2 hubs? :) Dec 10 14:27:34 timeless_mbp: I have a list of niggles that I need to search to see if they're there, and then file Dec 10 14:27:46 lardman|home: Probably something from tha maps API? http://googlegeodevelopers.blogspot.com/2009/05/build-on-top-of-your-public-latitude.html of any help? Dec 10 14:29:17 hmm. tracepath doesn't seem to work on my n900 Dec 10 14:29:24 ah ok, that's how to fetch the location of another user Dec 10 14:29:27 or yourself Dec 10 14:29:54 I'd thought it was just for yourself, but it does say "As an added bonus, both the JSON and KML feeds allow you to fetch the locations of multiple users — you only need to change the user parameter to use comma separated identifiers instead of a single one." Dec 10 14:30:02 so fine, we can grab our friends Dec 10 14:30:09 we still need to let Google know where we are Dec 10 14:30:16 (but at least that's less to do now) Dec 10 14:30:45 lardman: doesn't tcpdumping the stream when location is active show you anything? Dec 10 14:31:15 http://blag.tsukasa.net.au/2009/06/17/reversing-latitude/ Dec 10 14:31:22 SpeedEvil: I only had a quick look Dec 10 14:31:29 SpeedEvil: But nothing overly obvious Dec 10 14:31:52 again, I've never really looked at low level TCP data, so was slow going Dec 10 14:32:38 yeah - or firebug would be more sane, as it can show responses too Dec 10 14:32:44 or alternatively tcpick Dec 10 14:33:00 - which reconstructs all tcp streams to a computer - or to a port or ... live to files Dec 10 14:33:04 which is _very_ hadny Dec 10 14:33:12 sounds useful Dec 10 14:33:56 tcpick_001942_10.0.0.8_92.123.154.40_http.serv.dat Dec 10 14:33:57 tcpick_001943_10.0.0.8_92.123.154.40_http.clnt.dat Dec 10 14:33:59 for example Dec 10 14:34:14 that's data sent by server and client for the same connection Dec 10 14:34:16 oops Dec 10 14:34:25 ok, will have a look at that this evening Dec 10 14:34:28 well - that's not the same connection - but you get the idea Dec 10 14:34:59 yep Dec 10 14:35:30 http://tcpick.sourceforge.net/ Dec 10 14:36:10 I was working at the same time, do didn't try Linux based apps Dec 10 14:37:02 ethereal can also follow (and analyze) tcp streams if you want something to click :) Dec 10 14:37:11 Um. Now called wireshark. Dec 10 14:37:20 yeah, that's what I was using Dec 10 14:39:07 the JSON output received by that page doesn't have the field names like the Google page linked above does Dec 10 14:39:11 are they mandatory? Dec 10 14:40:05 Sexy? Y/N http://dl.dropbox.com/u/805039/img/glossy_test.png Dec 10 14:40:24 joppu: new theme? Dec 10 14:40:28 no Dec 10 14:40:38 don't like the two-tone buttons Dec 10 14:40:39 joppu: the contrast is a bit too sharp for my taste Dec 10 14:40:44 gradiated would be better Dec 10 14:40:57 joppu: feels like a glass theme Dec 10 14:41:02 i'm not sure that's bad Dec 10 14:41:17 note that it has issues w/ running through letters Dec 10 14:41:23 it can cause readability issues Dec 10 14:41:25 re Dec 10 14:41:30 I installed sshd. As usual I decided to remove it from autostart (from all the rcN.d paths). Eventhough it's not in any of the rcN.d paths - it still starts up on boot. Also when I run /etc/init.d/ssh stop - it won't stop... Am I missing something in maemo's startup script management? Any advice on how to do this? Dec 10 14:41:36 timeless_mbp: usb2 of course Dec 10 14:41:44 timeless_mbp: That's kinda the point, the glass :P Dec 10 14:42:01 lardman|home: As a single gradient? Dec 10 14:42:03 baho: i think maemo uses upstart Dec 10 14:42:05 not rc.d Dec 10 14:42:09 hehe Dec 10 14:42:17 joppu: yeah, rather than the sharp transition Dec 10 14:42:25 joppu: but don;t ask me really :) Dec 10 14:42:52 fixed undetectable simcard with a piece of paper between holder and battery Dec 10 14:42:57 timeless_mbp: oh.... thanx... I'm pretty sure I've done this via rc.d in maemo4... Will look into upstart... time to do some reading. Dec 10 14:43:10 baho: upstart came w/ fremantle Dec 10 14:43:29 I heard a certain person complaining how dull the default Fremantle theme was so I thought I'd make a sharp one Dec 10 14:43:36 anyone know of USB card reader: 058f:6362 Alcor Micro Corp. (if it support SDHC ?) Dec 10 14:43:58 joppu: go ahead, makes no odds to me anyway, as long as I can still see the buttons to click :) Dec 10 14:44:01 joppu: i'd say go for it Dec 10 14:45:35 Well, since it's and SVG, I can just adjust the templat gradient and it'll fix them all. Dec 10 14:45:45 To lower the contrast, I mean. Dec 10 14:45:52 But I'll see about it Dec 10 14:46:42 where does xchat go in fremantle if 'minimize to tray' is clicked? Dec 10 14:46:57 :) Dec 10 14:47:16 joppu, what theme you guys talking about? Dec 10 14:47:21 /dev/zero? :) Dec 10 14:47:43 slonopotamus: it could go to the status menu if it goes somewhere Dec 10 14:47:43 AndrewBlack: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/805039/img/glossy_test.png Dec 10 14:48:14 argh Dec 10 14:48:14 odin_: i have alcor...something... no sdhc Dec 10 14:48:32 joppu: http://s40.radikal.ru/i088/0910/7b/29ae58867c8f.png Dec 10 14:48:40 how i autocompete nicknames with hw kb? :( Dec 10 14:48:51 <|R> is it normal that me and my friends didn't get the converter in the n900 box? (2mm/3mm to microUSB for older nokia's charger?) Dec 10 14:49:17 joppu, looks nice Dec 10 14:49:25 joppu: http://i065.radikal.ru/0910/cf/cc07a96009f2.png Dec 10 14:49:33 slonopotamus: with xchat? Dec 10 14:49:35 i saw a systray widget or something... i suspect it might cactch xchat when/if it tried to run to tray? Dec 10 14:49:41 |R: I diddn't either Dec 10 14:49:47 speedevil yep Dec 10 14:50:03 <|R> SpeedEvil: uhm okay, decided it was not worth it i guess Dec 10 14:50:13 |R: just cleaning cloth, headphones, n900, battery, puppy. Dec 10 14:50:17 is theere a bug open for wanting more hotkeys for maemo5? Dec 10 14:50:39 <|R> SpeedEvil: and usb + chargers i guess? :) Dec 10 14:50:47 |R: yeah Dec 10 14:50:47 <|R> otherwise the puppy is going to starve ;) Dec 10 14:51:00 wazd: It's kinda similar... but not that much in my opinion. Are you implying that I'm plagiarizing Marina? Dec 10 14:52:16 joppu: no, not at all Dec 10 14:52:24 odin_, oh mine has same USB ID too. Mine does not do SDHC. Dec 10 14:52:32 joppu: at least you have the device to test :D Dec 10 14:53:25 ShadowJK, kernel: sd 5:0:0:0: [sdc] READ CAPACITY failed, kernel: sd 5:0:0:0: [sdc] Result: hostbyte=DID_NO_CONNECT driverbyte=DRIVER_OK,SUGGEST_OK, for a 4Gb card, but a little further for a 2Gb card: kernel: sd 6:0:0:0: [sdc] 3932160 512-byte hardware sectors (2013 MB) Dec 10 14:53:49 ShadowJK, thanks for confirming, guess I better get a new one Dec 10 14:54:23 Mine kinda works for non-HC, on good days Dec 10 14:54:34 kernel constantly resets it too Dec 10 14:56:35 qwerty12: here? =) Dec 10 14:59:51 * Jaffa grrraaarrgghs at #5130. Sodding UI specs breaking the user. Rules are for the obedience of fools, and the guidance of wise-men. Dec 10 15:00:32 wazd: Actually, I don't. I had but it was a dud, sadly Dec 10 15:00:50 bug 5130 Dec 10 15:00:52 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5130 Use of "yes/no" in JavaScript confirmation dialogues is confusing Dec 10 15:01:02 yeah we need N900 advanced mode with tons of user-configuration features... everyone should just find a way to organised/present them all... the idea of cutting own options for all is plain silly Dec 10 15:01:57 Jaffa: yes - completely breaking pages is not a good thing. Dec 10 15:03:11 hello Dec 10 15:03:26 is there a bootmanager on the n900 and how can i access it? Dec 10 15:03:35 it seems i've bricked my n900 Dec 10 15:03:45 but i know what files i've changed Dec 10 15:03:56 eMHa: How did you do it? Dec 10 15:03:57 and if i only had a shell i could revert Dec 10 15:04:08 well, i change .profile of user Dec 10 15:04:15 eMHa, not really, there is something that call itself bootmanager but it not a real one, since its already loaded a kernel and simply changes some options and stuff (that is how I understand it anyway) Dec 10 15:04:18 and i think there's aloop now Dec 10 15:04:34 ok, the usb part is booting ok Dec 10 15:04:56 emha, so what does it prevent, you cannot use xterm? Dec 10 15:05:07 no grafical user interface Dec 10 15:05:20 eMHa: can you ssh in? Dec 10 15:05:21 hm, funny if it uses .profile Dec 10 15:05:21 after the usb pboot part Dec 10 15:05:28 it doesn't boot any further Dec 10 15:05:31 no Dec 10 15:05:38 wireless seems not to come up Dec 10 15:05:45 maybe N900 needs a single user mode, which will boot an xterm no matter what Dec 10 15:06:01 odin_: maybe people need to not brick their devices Dec 10 15:06:10 at a certain point these are end user devices Dec 10 15:06:13 not hackables Dec 10 15:06:20 if you aren't willing to reflash like an end user Dec 10 15:06:25 then don't think like a hacker Dec 10 15:06:26 these are hackables ;-) Dec 10 15:06:28 eMHa: You're going to have to re-flash. Hope you made backups. Dec 10 15:06:38 hm Dec 10 15:06:44 i can take backups over usb Dec 10 15:06:51 so my data should be save Dec 10 15:06:59 timeless_mbp, it'd be great though that it would not be possible to brick (so that you need to send it to factory) it unless you use gainroot Dec 10 15:07:01 the data you can backup over usb isn't lost by a normal flashing Dec 10 15:07:22 flux: mucking around w/ dot files is pretty damn close to gainroot Dec 10 15:07:30 timeless_mbp, but, it's not gainroot :) Dec 10 15:07:40 so there isn't any relevant date Dec 10 15:07:43 although i'm kinda shocked that .profile would cause anything remotely interesting to happen Dec 10 15:07:54 andre__: can you add (as Bug Master) option to autoclose bugs by moving them to brainstorm area? Dec 10 15:07:57 but i hoped i can boot somethin like text mode shell :-) Dec 10 15:07:59 timeless_mbp: I'm not. Dec 10 15:08:05 I can do anything in my computer without breaking it, as long as I don't 'sudo'. of course, I need to know the root password. Dec 10 15:08:07 Actually, isn't .profile on /home/user anyway? Dec 10 15:08:08 Aloha Javier, welcome to NetHack! You are a neutral female human Tourist. Dec 10 15:08:14 So won't that survive a reflash? Dec 10 15:08:20 derf: it will :) Dec 10 15:08:26 hrw, ? Dec 10 15:08:36 Unless you flash emmc ;) Dec 10 15:08:41 ? Dec 10 15:08:45 timeless_mbp, what a segment of the market appears to want is a hackable product, so Nokia will on-day have to shallow on that and live with it Dec 10 15:08:49 X-Fade: better backup in that cas Dec 10 15:08:55 timeless_mbp: Indeed Dec 10 15:08:59 RST38h: seems to work, so gonna upload now Dec 10 15:09:01 s/on-day/one day/ Dec 10 15:09:02 odin_ meant: timeless_mbp, what a segment of the market appears to want is a hackable product, so Nokia will one day have to shallow on that and live with it Dec 10 15:09:16 odin_: how large is that market segment? Dec 10 15:09:25 1% of 1% of 1% of 1% of 1% ? Dec 10 15:09:33 or smaller? Dec 10 15:09:37 andre__: I am losing faith in maemo bugtracker as most of interesting bugs gets moved to brainstorm where no one cares about them Dec 10 15:09:54 what nokia wants (especially if it's producing lots of devices) Dec 10 15:09:58 is a large market segment Dec 10 15:10:02 timeless_mbp, it doesn't really matter, another vendor (not nokia will be producing the same basic design) and they will cater for hackability Dec 10 15:10:20 hrw, so? Dec 10 15:10:22 odin_: ... Dec 10 15:10:34 odin_: how did that work for freerunner sales again.. Dec 10 15:10:34 :P Dec 10 15:10:38 odin_, interesting that you make this point when Maemo devices are among the most hackable on the market. Dec 10 15:10:40 I'm going to try maemo for ARM Linux inside emulator . Anybody can point me to the right direction? Dec 10 15:10:54 hrw, Quim got some commitments from Nokia managers to Brainstorm. Dec 10 15:10:55 hrw: I might miss sense of humour today. All answered already. Enjoy. Dec 10 15:10:56 recalcati: maemo4 can be run in qemu Dec 10 15:11:03 GeneralAntilles: really? Dec 10 15:11:04 timeless_mbp: if I follow what you said, the n900 is a end user product, an messing with it is bad Dec 10 15:11:17 canc: i wouldn't go quite that far Dec 10 15:11:22 timeless_mbp, apparently. Dec 10 15:11:27 but i would say that it's designed to be like an end user product Dec 10 15:11:28 odin_, dude you can't both have the cake and eat it, pick one. Hackability and the power to make your n900 reboot-loop, or safety of being locked out from doing anything damaging Dec 10 15:11:29 timeless_mbp, there isn't a lot of support that Nokia needs to give that segment, simple stuff like being able to extract flash data via bootloader/USB, single-user-mode, anything so the bricked device is recoveryable by the modern day hacker Dec 10 15:11:32 I did get one because of the maemo os Dec 10 15:11:33 and if you mess it up, you reflash Dec 10 15:11:38 timeless_mbp, it was one of the requirements before we started using the Brainstorm. Dec 10 15:11:38 hrw: not meamo5 ? Dec 10 15:11:44 odin_: the more info you give the open source community the more they want Dec 10 15:11:44 :P Dec 10 15:11:47 it isn't sold with a serial console Dec 10 15:11:52 odin_: i'm sure you can provide that by yourself, though Dec 10 15:11:54 if you want a serial console, there's this other thing Dec 10 15:11:58 is it possible to flash the n900 from linux? Dec 10 15:11:58 recalcati: n8x0 emulation is present in qemu - was done for Nokia by OpenedHand Dec 10 15:12:03 what's the clear plastic box thing? Dec 10 15:12:06 unless you're talking about thrased ubifs Dec 10 15:12:07 timeless_mbp: ok, I get the point :) If you messed it, you flash it :) Dec 10 15:12:11 odin_, if you want to hack, hack. Dec 10 15:12:16 hrw: thx Dec 10 15:12:16 GeneralAntilles, I was not making a comment about Nokia not being hackable (that was timeless_mbp, please re-read what I wrote) I am all for hackability but timeless_mbp expressed a viewpoint that its a consumer device and hackability it not a priority Dec 10 15:12:16 recalcati: I blogged about it, had a talk about it on maemo summit 2008 even Dec 10 15:12:16 odin_, there's little stopping you. Dec 10 15:12:27 recalcati: no idea how goes n900 emu - rather not exists probably Dec 10 15:12:29 odin_, of course it's not a priority. Dec 10 15:12:32 hrw: oh, didn't know it was a pay job :) Dec 10 15:12:38 odin_, hackability doesn't generally sell many devices. Dec 10 15:12:49 hrw: I read something, but I have too many info in my mind Dec 10 15:12:54 A proper hacker sets up rsync backups of the entire device. Dec 10 15:12:58 * timeless_mbp frowns Dec 10 15:13:08 recalcati: normal qemu do not have omap3 emulation Dec 10 15:13:13 Because they _know_ they're going to brick the device at some point. Dec 10 15:13:14 Stskeeps: ;D Dec 10 15:13:25 hrw: i just assumed you were insane enough to do it in your free time ;) Dec 10 15:13:41 hrw: I guess that Nokia should have qemu or similar for its SDK, becasue is really important for development Dec 10 15:13:46 It was one of the first things I did. I'm surprised it took me two days before I needed to use them. Dec 10 15:14:12 recalcati: what for? you can use crapbox to run maemo/x86 Dec 10 15:14:19 ! beagle board Dec 10 15:14:26 Stskeeps: ;D Dec 10 15:14:27 yes, that's the thing w/ a serial cable Dec 10 15:14:34 go buy one, or heck, buy two! Dec 10 15:15:00 recalcati: you clearly haven't used the sdk Dec 10 15:15:05 because it does indeed include qemu Dec 10 15:15:12 Stskeeps, I'm not sure I understand your points. Re: cake and eat it Dec 10 15:15:18 and you can setup system qemu if you really want to Dec 10 15:15:19 ...anybody having a SDK handy who can quickly confirm https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6813 ? Dec 10 15:15:21 Bug 6813: "Add widget" missing in SDK Dec 10 15:15:37 odin_: if you give out kernel then they want bootloader, then they want jtag.. Dec 10 15:15:40 I'm pretty sure, it's there. Dec 10 15:15:44 odin_: etc Dec 10 15:15:52 andre__: how about telling the reporter how to get the sdk version Dec 10 15:15:57 * timeless_mbp has no idea how to do that Dec 10 15:16:10 odin_: the return of making the investment to get that info published isn't convincing Dec 10 15:16:11 me neither Dec 10 15:16:30 eMHa, yes its possible to re-flash the N900 from windows and linux (it is not currently possible to recover rootfs/swap/kernel/etc.. data but the 32Gb eMMC storage remains intact after a reflash, since the root/swap/kernel etc.. are in another flash space Dec 10 15:16:34 I guess just doing "apt-get update && apt-get upgrade" and ensuring no errors suffices Dec 10 15:16:59 if you crash often you'll end up corrupting the emmc and will have to flash that too :) Dec 10 15:17:46 odin_: hm, but there's home of user Dec 10 15:17:52 Stskeeps, understood the ROI issue, this is why I say another player in the market will make that move, it doesn't happen to be Nokia, but hey, thats good for everyone right ? I mean a little competition in the ARM based Linux smart-computer-phone space Dec 10 15:18:10 eMHa, home of user is on eMMC Dec 10 15:18:18 hm Dec 10 15:18:25 and is not accessible via usb Dec 10 15:18:36 nope Dec 10 15:18:37 hm, litlle problem... Dec 10 15:19:02 eMHa: backup the eMMC MyDocs volume via usb Dec 10 15:19:05 hrw: I don't find the crapbox link, anyway a qemu or similar as emulator is really important Dec 10 15:19:15 timeless_mbp: yeah, allready done Dec 10 15:19:26 in theory someday Mer will boot from microSD for the n900 Dec 10 15:19:36 ok, i will try in the hope i'm wrong what i've messed Dec 10 15:19:38 and you could then just boot it and muck w/ the altroot home Dec 10 15:19:42 downloading flasher... Dec 10 15:19:46 If I flash a device, does MyDocs get deleted? Dec 10 15:19:48 eMHa, so you are saying your .profile on /home/user/.profile is broken and even if you reflash it wont fix it, cus that will only modify rootfs ? Dec 10 15:19:48 dunno if it does yet Dec 10 15:19:54 jkimball4: depends what you flash Dec 10 15:19:58 normal flash is ubifs Dec 10 15:20:03 odin_: i think so Dec 10 15:20:07 but you can flash eMMC which is ext3+vfat Dec 10 15:20:10 but perhaps i'm wrong Dec 10 15:20:11 vfat=MyDocs Dec 10 15:20:23 andre__: latest version of SDK has "Add widget", and offers me to add the RSS widget Dec 10 15:20:23 only option i have i think Dec 10 15:20:25 ah there we go then, you can flash the whole thing back to factory defaults, OneNAND and eMMC Dec 10 15:20:29 eMHa: that's roughly correct Dec 10 15:20:31 javispedro, thanks Dec 10 15:20:31 timeless_mbp: does the nokia software updater let me choose? Dec 10 15:20:49 jkimball4: NSU should never do eMMC afaiu Dec 10 15:20:53 andre__: since on the default SDK desktop the RSS widget is already on screen 1 (iirc), maybe he just doesn't have any more widgets to add Dec 10 15:20:58 flasher3.5 lets you do whatever Dec 10 15:21:24 i've also saved my backup directory :-) Dec 10 15:21:31 timeless_mbp: well my n900 randomly shuts off so i want to flash to see maybe that fixes it Dec 10 15:21:36 bug 6720 Dec 10 15:21:38 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6720 Add the ability for Flasher and NOLO to download data Dec 10 15:21:50 recalcati: s/crapbox/scratchbox/ and you will easier find it Dec 10 15:21:57 jkimball4: i'd use flasher3.5 Dec 10 15:22:08 is the end result the same? Dec 10 15:22:09 you're not an end user if you're trying to fix things Dec 10 15:22:26 some kind of serial console would be cool now ;-) Dec 10 15:22:34 flasher3.5 can do exactly what NSU does (minus downloading the image automatically) Dec 10 15:22:39 or it can do more, or it can do less Dec 10 15:23:09 johnx, ping? Dec 10 15:23:20 scratchbox . yes, I remember Dec 10 15:24:16 andre__: i get the "add widgets" button too, as i've just used it Dec 10 15:24:24 ok, time to reboot desktop just to test will n900 work as storage again.... Dec 10 15:24:30 fnordianslip, thanks Dec 10 15:24:37 andre__: ah, just read bug closed :) Dec 10 15:24:47 well, still: appreciated :) Dec 10 15:27:50 shit Dec 10 15:29:43 What's the issue with 3 SIM cards all about? Dec 10 15:29:52 bugfix coming in PR1.1 Dec 10 15:30:35 what is the problem? Dec 10 15:30:45 dunno, not a HW guy Dec 10 15:30:48 but it's an admitted one Dec 10 15:30:59 fair enough Dec 10 15:31:56 bye Dec 10 15:32:01 I've got a question about mfe with google Dec 10 15:32:01 cu hrw Dec 10 15:32:19 Stskeeps: in 2010.03-12? Dec 10 15:32:20 ;D Dec 10 15:32:21 Stskeeps, so what is the word on the serial-console is there a hobby-kit version? (or other kernel diagnostic, for those wishing to fix kernels/kexec/bootloaders) Dec 10 15:32:22 http://conversations.nokia.com/2009/11/10/nokia-n900-begins-shipping/ Dec 10 15:32:29 explains the problem fairly clearly Dec 10 15:32:30 each time I configure it, the connexion works all right, but it get stuck Dec 10 15:32:46 There is a limited number of new Hutchison 3G SIM cards in some markets (UK, Ireland, Sweden, Denmark, Austria and Italy) that require a specific SIM ATK support from the mobile device. The Nokia N900 has not originally been designed to support this requirement. Dec 10 15:32:49 hrw|gone: hopefuly before xmas, but i wouldn't personally mind it being later as my xmas would be ruined by packag eupdates Dec 10 15:32:52 and, it doesn't seem ti end all right Dec 10 15:32:52 :P Dec 10 15:33:13 odin_: see if the solution that worked for n810 works on n900 Dec 10 15:33:16 is there a log file somewhere, so I can try to figure out what's going on ? Dec 10 15:34:06 Stskeeps, its been said that host-mode-USB might be a compiled kernel / driver issue, have you looked into / thought about this angle ? Dec 10 15:34:20 odin_: not a kernel developer Dec 10 15:34:36 odin_: so um Dec 10 15:34:41 this stuff has been beaten to death Dec 10 15:34:46 read the logs and mailing lists Dec 10 15:34:49 don't abuse the living Dec 10 15:35:05 timeless_mbp: i wonder if my operator gives out new sim cards that are those nonworking ones Dec 10 15:35:07 Stskeeps, well when my Fedora12 works on this PC I shall finally get SDK installed but its looking to be after holiday period Dec 10 15:35:13 generally speaking though, nothing we've done in Maemo Devices has involved intentionally cripling hardware Dec 10 15:35:23 either the hardware didn't work, or we didn't have time to get it right Dec 10 15:35:41 timeless_mbp: yeah.. that's the discussion right now, if the pins were actually removed or not Dec 10 15:35:56 well can they beat this dead horse outside? Dec 10 15:36:21 timeless_mbp: How will it run faster if they don't beat it? Dec 10 15:36:22 timeless_mbp, the talk item I read had no answers, which logs are you talking about ? its not been talked of on the mailing list in the time Ive been subscribed (which admittedly is not that long) Dec 10 15:36:42 odin_: did you know that mailinglists have archives? Dec 10 15:37:10 peterbrett: i didn't say not to beat it, just that i don't want them beating it *here* Dec 10 15:37:33 timeless_mbp, no one is saying things are crippled (Re network Three) that just a corner case extra things that is being mopped up in next release, I think people would be fine with that (I know i would be) Dec 10 15:37:38 bbiab Dec 10 15:38:10 is now flashing... Dec 10 15:38:28 are there other key combos like pressing u while turing on? Dec 10 15:39:05 hm, some claim ovi store up Dec 10 15:39:30 coming soon according to my link from apps Dec 10 15:39:35 How many apps? One? Dec 10 15:39:53 odin_: err Dec 10 15:39:53 i hope for Bounce levels Dec 10 15:39:57 andre__: did you see the email addresses in: https://garage.maemo.org/svn/maemoexamples/trunk/maemo-examples/example_camera.c Dec 10 15:39:58 whee, N900 in the mail Dec 10 15:40:01 it was never an advertised feature Dec 10 15:40:14 mopping up something that wasn't advertised is totally misinterpretting how things work Dec 10 15:40:21 if we claim "x will work" Dec 10 15:40:22 (we were looking at examples in a documentation discussion) Dec 10 15:40:25 and doesn't work Dec 10 15:40:32 then it's roughly speaking our job to mop up x Dec 10 15:40:36 Bounce levels? Dec 10 15:40:37 if we never claim "x will work" Dec 10 15:40:44 puh, it booted... Dec 10 15:40:46 then there's nothing for us to mop up when x doesn't work Dec 10 15:40:46 Anybody knows why I have this pb installing beta2? E: Scratchbox command '/scratchbox/sbin/sbox_adduser' is not executable. Dec 10 15:40:46 * lbt_ wants a Bounce level creator Dec 10 15:40:47 lbt_: yeah, additional levels for Bounce Dec 10 15:40:48 :P Dec 10 15:41:11 hmm, where's the texture for the apples.... Mer logo.... Dec 10 15:41:14 half of my settings are there !? Dec 10 15:41:14 lbt, haha, no. thanks :-) Dec 10 15:41:18 nokia might do lots of things wrong, but this isn't one of them Dec 10 15:41:42 eMHa: so... Dec 10 15:41:47 roughly speaking if reflashing only ubifs fixed it Dec 10 15:41:56 then your change to .profile was not really how you ruined your device Dec 10 15:42:05 Jose-Luiz Martinez said it would be up soon. Dec 10 15:42:20 GAN900: is that like the store guy who claimed they'd fix the display case? Dec 10 15:42:25 andre__: I was right about the non-Nokia though Dec 10 15:42:29 time for me to organize my field trip Dec 10 15:42:29 timeless_mbp: so i check if it wasn't my .profile Dec 10 15:42:46 eMHa: and if it wasn't, you apologize :) Dec 10 15:42:52 we get beaten up badly enough here Dec 10 15:42:59 we don't need our sores to go untended Dec 10 15:43:19 if you want to complain to Nokia Care and curse them, that's fine Dec 10 15:43:21 yes,i apologize Dec 10 15:43:22 timeless_mbp, dunno, Nseries VP may be more enabled, however. Dec 10 15:43:26 they're paid to take your complaints Dec 10 15:43:28 hmm, doesnt xournal work in xephyr? Dec 10 15:43:32 i cant paint Dec 10 15:43:39 eMHa: =) Dec 10 15:43:42 sorry Dec 10 15:43:49 sorry you needed to reflash Dec 10 15:43:52 so it must be something else i've messed up... Dec 10 15:43:55 i'd suggest you create a backup regularly :) Dec 10 15:44:13 yeah, only have this n900 since 04.12. Dec 10 15:44:33 and yesterday i first installed rsync for backups Dec 10 15:44:38 but hadn't set it up yet Dec 10 15:44:56 note that you don't want one backup, you want some series system ;-) Dec 10 15:45:16 i don't understand series system? Dec 10 15:45:28 dunno, incremental, daily Dec 10 15:45:29 i've put the n900 into my server management Dec 10 15:45:38 not just rsync x fixed-remote-path Dec 10 15:45:59 nono Dec 10 15:46:05 i've complete backup scripts Dec 10 15:46:05 good :) Dec 10 15:46:08 for my other servers Dec 10 15:46:20 oh Dec 10 15:46:22 i can tell backup from server x to server y with rsync these dirs Dec 10 15:46:23 http://store.ovi.mobi Dec 10 15:46:29 and make hardlink copies Dec 10 15:46:36 x Dec 10 15:46:40 and so on Dec 10 15:47:00 * timeless_mbp gets solitaire from store.ovi.movi Dec 10 15:47:02 EEP! Dec 10 15:47:10 it wants me to have a nokia account Dec 10 15:47:21 cool Dec 10 15:47:28 store.ovi.mobi works in portrait mode :) Dec 10 15:47:36 can i borrow someone's ovi store account? :) Dec 10 15:47:37 it's opened for n900? Dec 10 15:47:49 flux: Stskeeps 's url works in my browser Dec 10 15:47:52 wow Dec 10 15:47:59 nice Dec 10 15:47:59 they are /fast/ ;-) Dec 10 15:48:02 there are ~5 free things Dec 10 15:48:06 * Stskeeps is checking is there's anything remotely usable Dec 10 15:48:10 but... i'm not signing up Dec 10 15:48:11 :) Dec 10 15:48:16 Stskeeps: grab solitaire for me Dec 10 15:48:22 hm Dec 10 15:48:23 "Ovi Store is currently not available for your device." Dec 10 15:48:32 i think my whole settings are there after reflashing!? Dec 10 15:48:38 lbt_: you visited http://store.ovi.mobi from the browser Dec 10 15:48:39 only installed apps are missing Dec 10 15:48:43 my desktop's not *that* heavy Dec 10 15:48:45 eMHa: roughly Dec 10 15:48:48 settings live in ~ Dec 10 15:48:54 (mostly, minus wifi and a few others) Dec 10 15:49:01 ~ is on eMMC in ext3 Dec 10 15:49:12 wifi and gconf and apps live in / which is ubifs Dec 10 15:49:12 yeah, wifi is lost Dec 10 15:49:15 which is what you reflashed Dec 10 15:49:18 u r right Dec 10 15:49:23 wow ... the porn is at #3 already Dec 10 15:49:24 ebook apps.. Dec 10 15:49:25 :P Dec 10 15:49:33 ooh bounce is on page 2 Dec 10 15:49:37 w/ a dozen other games Dec 10 15:49:43 ok, someone ... please share your ovi account Dec 10 15:50:11 "pee monkey toilet trainer" Dec 10 15:50:15 OMG Dec 10 15:50:16 ok, my server ssh keys are lost Dec 10 15:50:28 but i've the same in my chroot on microSD Dec 10 15:50:31 Level Touch isn't a bad idea Dec 10 15:50:46 timeless_mbp: http://www.bugmenot.com/view/store.ovi.mobi Dec 10 15:50:53 derf: yeah Dec 10 15:50:58 already there Dec 10 15:51:01 :) Dec 10 15:52:15 derf: isn't working? :( Dec 10 15:52:28 Hey, you get what you pay for. Dec 10 15:53:17 ok, next time i will take more care when messing with my new n900 Dec 10 15:53:33 ssh is back :-D Dec 10 15:54:06 derf: =( Dec 10 15:54:12 * timeless_mbp frowns Dec 10 15:54:16 i think we have test accounts somewhere Dec 10 15:54:38 humm, ovi already open for maemo ? o_0 Dec 10 15:54:51 hey, someone copied someone's "resistor" app in ovi store ;) Dec 10 15:55:44 resistor app? Dec 10 15:55:53 well, they're on the right track to pursue the iphone. No app felt useful to me :) Dec 10 15:56:02 redeeman: resistor colors table app Dec 10 15:56:08 ah Dec 10 15:56:09 *color code Dec 10 15:57:36 when i go to the store it just says "coming soon" Dec 10 15:57:53 redeeman: http://store.ovi.mobi Dec 10 15:57:59 don't use the thing in the app launcher Dec 10 15:58:27 isn't that weird? Dec 10 15:58:40 not really Dec 10 15:58:52 and the .mobi one looks pretty... featurephoneish Dec 10 15:59:07 * VDVsx is disappointed no fart app so far :( Dec 10 15:59:10 I feel like If I were browsing through java apps Dec 10 15:59:29 yay receiving my n900 tomorrow :> Dec 10 15:59:29 VDVsx: no bbq app either yet Dec 10 16:00:02 Myrtti, :) Dec 10 16:00:12 so did anyone try to download any app already? is there an ovi repo? Dec 10 16:00:16 redeeman: most likely it's in beta Dec 10 16:00:25 when they're ready, the main link will work Dec 10 16:01:01 SinofEnvy: where'd you order from? Dec 10 16:01:18 Contrast lowered due to public demand: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/805039/img/glossy_test2.png Dec 10 16:01:35 javispedro: who made the original resistor app? Dec 10 16:01:36 If anyone wants th installation file for testing, just ask. Dec 10 16:01:38 microlith, uh... a Dutch site. smartphoneshop.nl. They had them in stock for like a day, so I cancelled my order at this other shop and ordered it from there Dec 10 16:01:44 and they sent it today Dec 10 16:01:44 redeeman: I don't remember, was on tmo Dec 10 16:01:48 SinofEnvy: nice timing :) Dec 10 16:01:54 tell me about it Dec 10 16:02:09 I can't wait Dec 10 16:02:09 mine will be arriving from newegg here tomorrow Dec 10 16:02:12 Oh, there's music on there ... Dec 10 16:02:29 joppu: hit me Dec 10 16:02:30 nice, was/is there a supply shortage in the US as well? Dec 10 16:02:46 SinofEnvy: only through non-nokia retailers it seems Dec 10 16:02:59 I know in the Netherlands and UK at least they're pretty much unavailable for now (until next batch) Dec 10 16:03:10 newegg just got a shipment in it seems Dec 10 16:03:11 even from Nokia Europe Dec 10 16:03:27 ok, time for me to get to work Dec 10 16:04:26 timeless_mbp: uhm? Dec 10 16:04:37 joppu: your .install file or whatever Dec 10 16:04:39 * VDVsx downloads a trailer Dec 10 16:04:46 timeless_mbp: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/805039/maemo/glossy_all.deb Dec 10 16:04:49 :) Dec 10 16:05:33 I am going to kill every one on tmo Dec 10 16:05:58 javispedro, wait a second,I'm there right now Dec 10 16:05:59 timeless_mbp: just a reminder, there is probably a nasty bug in the SMS view, but that's something I can't do anything about Dec 10 16:06:50 * timeless_mbp crosses fingers Dec 10 16:06:58 to thhose with N900s, can I have one (or both) of the camera flashes on when recording a vid? Dec 10 16:07:27 joppu: eventually your theme preview needs work :) Dec 10 16:07:57 joppu: i don't think the blue drop down arrows by menus fits with your gray-glass theme Dec 10 16:08:06 SinofEnvy, not with stock camera application Dec 10 16:08:07 javispedro: regarding the add widget bug ... you think that my sdk is too old? Dec 10 16:08:13 I don't understand which is the correct starting point for having maemo5 sdk installed on my pc Dec 10 16:08:21 timeless_mbp, there's a Ovi catalog Dec 10 16:08:29 VDVsx: urlme? Dec 10 16:08:30 xorAxAx: either your SDK is too old, you don't have nokia-binaries, or you already have the RSS widget Dec 10 16:08:39 now I'm running http://maemo-sdk.garage.maemo.org/install.html Dec 10 16:08:41 javispedro: probably, i do, no Dec 10 16:08:42 timeless_mbp, 1 sec Dec 10 16:08:54 updating now Dec 10 16:09:02 javispedro: i downloaded it last week Dec 10 16:09:11 joppu: the rest of your theme uses a darker bluish purple Dec 10 16:09:16 if you made the drop arrow use that, it might be better Dec 10 16:09:34 joppu: also, can you open 'profiles' in settings? Dec 10 16:09:39 recalcati: how do you like SDK+ (scratchbox2) versus the "standard" SDK? Dec 10 16:09:42 xorAxAx: what does apt-cache policy osso-rss-feed-reader-applet show on "Installed:"? Dec 10 16:09:48 ab[out], okay, thanks. Dec 10 16:10:39 OK, I have YET to see a SINGLE Ovi review in English on either the S60 or Maemo stores. . . . Dec 10 16:10:54 javispedro: Installed: 1.6.41-2+0m5 Dec 10 16:11:02 timeless_mbp, https://dowloads.maemo.nokia.com/fremantle/ovi/ Dec 10 16:11:10 timeless_mbp, dist: ./ Dec 10 16:11:11 timeless_mbp: the arrow need to be hacked seperately, I don't have profiles in the SDK settings Dec 10 16:11:23 xorAxAx: your issue is that Add widget is missing or that the entire menu is missing? Dec 10 16:11:24 jebba: installing beta2 I had that pb: E: Scratchbox command '/scratchbox/sbin/sbox_adduser' is not executable. Dec 10 16:11:38 timeless_mbp, comp field is empty Dec 10 16:11:42 joppu: http://www.webwizardry.net/~timeless/n900/Screenshot-20091210-181035.png Dec 10 16:11:54 VDVsx: thanks Dec 10 16:12:20 joppu: the icons for available in HAM are unfortunate Dec 10 16:12:21 javispedro: both ... now i found the rss widget (i also have another one). now i restarted xephyr, removed the rss one and i get a menu and the button Dec 10 16:12:28 http://maemo.org/development/sdks/maemo_5_beta_2_sdk/ is right? Dec 10 16:12:33 hi Dec 10 16:12:33 javispedro: before, i didnt get the button even though only one widget was active Dec 10 16:12:45 two widgets? Dec 10 16:12:51 the sdk only comes with one widget -- the rss one. Dec 10 16:13:00 i have gpe calendar installed Dec 10 16:13:04 which is /now/ showing up Dec 10 16:13:05 hey has anyone made a "Share with scp" plugin? Dec 10 16:13:08 * timeless_mbp really really wants one Dec 10 16:13:11 but wasnt before Dec 10 16:13:22 so the issue is that the sdk is not refreshing the list of widgets Dec 10 16:13:27 joppu: http://www.webwizardry.net/~timeless/n900/Screenshot-20091210-181226.png Dec 10 16:13:52 * mgedmin wants subversion or git or bzr for fremantle Dec 10 16:14:06 javispedro: yes Dec 10 16:14:07 apt-get Dec 10 16:14:14 mgedmin: apt-get Dec 10 16:14:27 tried, they're not in extras-devel Dec 10 16:14:28 timeless: that would be nice.. share via scp.. but I also miss a share via picasaweb Dec 10 16:14:29 How to compile a C source on n900? I tried to get gcc cpp binutils etc, but i can't. Dec 10 16:14:32 git is in extras- Dec 10 16:14:44 you sure? Dec 10 16:14:53 Elerion: you need tools or sdk or something Dec 10 16:14:56 maybe the package was renamed to 'git'? Dec 10 16:14:59 it's not in a default repo Dec 10 16:15:03 I tried git-core, which is how it's called in Debian/Ubuntu Dec 10 16:15:11 mgedmin: way too sane :) Dec 10 16:15:21 joppu: progress boxes are unreadable Dec 10 16:15:38 apparently there was a prior project nobody ever heard about (GNU Interactive Tools) that claimed the short package name Dec 10 16:15:49 mgedmin: "I was there" Dec 10 16:16:06 however "FIXEDINSQUEEZE" Dec 10 16:16:11 IIRC Dec 10 16:16:12 woohoo! Dec 10 16:16:14 RST38h: vultures got throught the autobuilder Dec 10 16:16:33 joppu: http://www.webwizardry.net/~timeless/n900/Screenshot-20091210-181513.png Dec 10 16:16:34 timeless_mbp: let's handle this in query Dec 10 16:16:35 * mgedmin is dreading the upcoming data transfer from loaner N900 to DDP N900 Dec 10 16:16:37 Timeless: I'm sure there must be a way to compile the source on a device. Dec 10 16:16:39 joppu: ok Dec 10 16:16:43 Elerion: sure Dec 10 16:16:50 if you install the repos that have dev stuff Dec 10 16:16:58 mgedmin: the Debian packagers came onto the git-dev mailing list.... we weren't polite to him Dec 10 16:16:59 you can install the apps which let you compile stuff Dec 10 16:17:08 if you don't install the repos or the tools, then no Dec 10 16:17:17 99.99% of users don't build stuff on device Dec 10 16:17:17 lbt_, url to archives? Dec 10 16:17:18 http://store.ovi.mobi with free apps? Dec 10 16:17:27 so it's a very large waste of valuable rootfs Dec 10 16:17:31 Inbox.Linux.git Dec 10 16:17:39 old thread/recent thread? Dec 10 16:17:39 anidel, yes Dec 10 16:17:44 cool Dec 10 16:17:46 very very old Dec 10 16:17:54 ah, okay Dec 10 16:18:41 Can't install any of them Dec 10 16:18:44 Timeless: I'd like to try anyway. What's the repos? Dec 10 16:18:50 ... Dec 10 16:18:54 i didn't say it wasn't possible Dec 10 16:18:58 i said you need to add the pieces Dec 10 16:19:01 * timeless_mbp gives up Dec 10 16:19:06 nope, W: Unable to locate package git Dec 10 16:19:11 h-a-m chugs along for a couple of minutes then reports package not found. Dec 10 16:19:17 * mgedmin :( Dec 10 16:21:12 GAN900: i get Checking for upd|ates, please wait Dec 10 16:21:19 the progress bar is stuck at | Dec 10 16:21:23 mgedmin: mine is in /scratchbox/devkits/git/bin/git Dec 10 16:21:45 which may mean it's in sbox now, not fremantle... which may mean not on the devide Dec 10 16:21:52 what scratchbox, I want it on my actual device Dec 10 16:21:54 :/ Dec 10 16:22:02 lcuk: ping.... do you use git on the tablet? Dec 10 16:22:15 major points for the n900 today at uni, a friend needed help with his apache.conf, i pulled up my n900, ssh'd to my server and showed him my config Dec 10 16:22:16 I want to version my ~/.profile and friends Dec 10 16:22:16 downloaded a trailer from ovi with .dm as a extension 0_0, doesn't work here,lol Dec 10 16:22:22 jaws were dropping... :D Dec 10 16:22:30 VDVsx: rename that to ".drm" ;) Dec 10 16:22:38 lolol Dec 10 16:22:54 I'm pretty sure diablo had subversion, maybe I should just rebuild Dec 10 16:22:57 valerio: noticed the same... Dec 10 16:23:03 mgedmin: use git Dec 10 16:23:13 it's in diablo extras Dec 10 16:23:16 VDVsx: hrm, so the stores are dead Dec 10 16:23:20 so should be easy to port over Dec 10 16:23:22 lbt_, actually, I'd like to, but I can never figure out how to mirror git repos Dec 10 16:23:23 cool, i hope they close mexico city too Dec 10 16:23:30 mgedmin: ask... Dec 10 16:23:35 there's no git push ssh://server/nonexistentdirectory Dec 10 16:23:48 people have tried to show me, with little success ... Dec 10 16:24:00 timeless: it's re Nokia closing down its flagships stores? Dec 10 16:24:27 mgedmin: what are you trying to do? Dec 10 16:24:37 http://nokiaexperts.com/breaking-nokia-closing-flagship-stores-york-chicago/ Dec 10 16:24:46 from VDVsx 's comment earlier Dec 10 16:25:01 yeah I've read that already Dec 10 16:25:33 i wonder how store.ovi.mobi detects the device, not from the useragent it seems Dec 10 16:25:35 lbt_, use a version control system for backups Dec 10 16:26:05 mgedmin: mmm use rsync Dec 10 16:26:16 rsync is a bloody PITA Dec 10 16:26:16 and rsback Dec 10 16:26:34 yeah, but it's efficient in many dimensions Dec 10 16:26:36 and I want to version my dotfiles and bash scripts, not just have the latest copy Dec 10 16:26:51 I need efficiency usability-wise, mostly Dec 10 16:26:57 rdiff-backup could always be used :P Dec 10 16:26:57 ah, so local vcs Dec 10 16:27:01 ofcourse svn is probably nicer Dec 10 16:27:05 svn works kinda well, but the .svn subdirs scattered everywhere annoy me Dec 10 16:27:13 use git with a local repo Dec 10 16:27:17 and setup a clone Dec 10 16:27:22 and then push to it Dec 10 16:27:24 precisely what I ant Dec 10 16:27:27 s/ant/want/ Dec 10 16:27:27 mgedmin meant: precisely what I want Dec 10 16:27:37 if I could only figure out how to set up a clone Dec 10 16:27:41 use git-server on the backup - started from init Dec 10 16:27:43 scp maybe Dec 10 16:28:05 don't wanna new server with a new tcp port with new dnat rules and new authentication issues, I want ssh Dec 10 16:28:31 hmm, just played with one of those huge screen HTC WinMo devices Dec 10 16:28:33 was very slow Dec 10 16:28:50 meh then use ssh to tunnel. git doesn't really use ssh. Dec 10 16:29:00 but the email preview was nice, arranged like pieces of paper which you flick past to the next one Dec 10 16:29:21 ssh -L XX:server:XX; git push localhost Dec 10 16:30:06 lbt_, I don't believe that's the only way Dec 10 16:30:13 git clone support ssh natively Dec 10 16:31:06 nah, I just need to find a couple of hours, sit down and figure things out Dec 10 16:31:07 yep - but not "best practice" and seems to produce bugs. IIRC which I may not Dec 10 16:32:45 hmm, I could be thinking of http actually :) Dec 10 16:33:40 so, i bricked second time! Dec 10 16:33:56 and it was my .profile which looped and bricked Dec 10 16:34:03 by definition there is no second time with bricking Dec 10 16:34:10 :) Dec 10 16:34:14 lardman: hehe Dec 10 16:34:21 i bricked first time Dec 10 16:34:29 lbt Dec 10 16:34:30 and i wanted to see what the reason was! Dec 10 16:34:36 i changed .profile Dec 10 16:34:37 yes Dec 10 16:34:41 no, bricking is a one way street Dec 10 16:34:41 but Dec 10 16:34:45 but i cannot access https repositories Dec 10 16:34:45 bash was involved Dec 10 16:34:47 once a brick forever a brick Dec 10 16:35:03 i had a loop only if bash is installed Dec 10 16:35:13 und after reflashing Dec 10 16:35:15 bash isn't installed Dec 10 16:35:43 timeless_mbp: and it was my .profile but in combination with bash Dec 10 16:35:53 you *installed* BASH? Dec 10 16:35:59 yes Dec 10 16:36:01 and you're surprised you bricked your device? Dec 10 16:36:03 it's in extras Dec 10 16:36:07 hehe Dec 10 16:36:07 ... Dec 10 16:36:15 i didn't changed default login to /bin/bash Dec 10 16:36:21 i let /bin/sh point to busybox Dec 10 16:36:21 sorry. if you don't think that voids your warrantee ... Dec 10 16:36:38 its not a brick if it works after reflashing tbh ;o Dec 10 16:36:39 * timeless_mbp frowns Dec 10 16:36:40 hey, i don't think i'm using my warantee Dec 10 16:36:45 * hardaker just read back and notes: I created a git package yesterday... I don't have garage upload permission yet though. Dec 10 16:36:51 my macbook pro's screen doesn't support tapping Dec 10 16:37:24 Anyone know how Sheperd is coming along? Dec 10 16:37:40 would be useful with Latitude location notifier to switch wireless on/off Dec 10 16:38:00 timeless_mbp: i wanted to know what bricked my N900, so i found out Dec 10 16:38:14 and i'm happy i know now :-) Dec 10 16:38:18 eMHa: someone else complained that you shouldn't be able to brick it by using .profile Dec 10 16:38:29 yeah Dec 10 16:38:30 the warranty void bit is really to the someone else Dec 10 16:38:33 so it is possible! Dec 10 16:38:37 but my memory is too short Dec 10 16:38:43 if you put something into .profile which is bad Dec 10 16:38:50 your N900 doesn't start Dec 10 16:38:57 but you said w/o bash, .profile didn't kill you, no? Dec 10 16:39:08 well Dec 10 16:39:20 it was a if bash is installed do something Dec 10 16:39:26 otherwise do what different Dec 10 16:39:38 so it is possible to do this if bash is not installed Dec 10 16:39:57 * timeless_mbp wonders what looked for bash Dec 10 16:40:05 i had somtheing like Dec 10 16:40:09 if [ -x /bin/bash ] Dec 10 16:40:10 then Dec 10 16:40:12 .. Dec 10 16:40:13 else Dec 10 16:40:15 .. Dec 10 16:40:16 fi Dec 10 16:40:22 in my .profile Dec 10 16:40:25 a narrow miss Dec 10 16:40:27 if bash is installed Dec 10 16:40:31 there where some commands Dec 10 16:40:58 not the best check, though, better check if it's bash that's running .profile Dec 10 16:41:01 which could also be executed when no bash is installed Dec 10 16:41:03 you can have both and still use /bin/sh Dec 10 16:41:04 my luck was Dec 10 16:41:09 that if bash wasn't installed Dec 10 16:41:14 the commands weren't executed Dec 10 16:41:28 * mgedmin suggests if [ -n "$BASH_VERSION" ]; then Dec 10 16:41:51 but roughly, i think most people should understand that pulling out an xterm Dec 10 16:41:57 and randomly changing the file system is asking for trouble Dec 10 16:42:15 timeless_mbp: yeah Dec 10 16:42:34 you're right Dec 10 16:42:37 but i'm a geek Dec 10 16:42:44 i need to do such things ;-) Dec 10 16:43:00 if this was a car, you'd have caused thousands of euros of damage :) Dec 10 16:43:09 timeless_mbp: it wasn't enough for me to see my device back in business Dec 10 16:43:14 i wanted to know what it was Dec 10 16:43:28 yeah, i appreciate that Dec 10 16:43:52 timeless_mbp: yeah i better don't think about the money i could have lost Dec 10 16:44:02 now i know a little bit more about the deivce Dec 10 16:44:17 and this will hopefully prevent me from bricking again Dec 10 16:44:57 so putting something like exit in .profile could prevent your n900 from booting Dec 10 16:45:02 Exciting new apps in the Ovi Store - like Pendulum Touch, Speedometer Touch, Snow Globe Touch, ... Dec 10 16:45:06 perhaps there is a way around this? Dec 10 16:45:17 Jaffa: my ham is still stuck Dec 10 16:46:11 hmm Ovi store works now? Dec 10 16:46:23 lardman: http://store.ove.mobi Dec 10 16:46:33 Jaffa: ooh, it finally got unstuck! Dec 10 16:46:36 ovi.mobi Dec 10 16:46:46 i have an update for supertux! Dec 10 16:47:05 lardman: The link in the menu still goes through to the holding page, but opening http://store.ovi.mobi/ in the browser shows some content. Even paid stuff Dec 10 16:47:21 oh right Dec 10 16:47:26 Jaffa: were you able to install any of those apps? Dec 10 16:47:27 VDVsx: downloads.maemo.nokia.com/fremantle/obi/./Packages = 404 Dec 10 16:47:29 the desktop browser doesn't show N900 stuff Dec 10 16:47:45 pendulum says: Unable to download "offscr-pendulum" package not found Dec 10 16:47:52 what does "off screen" means? Dec 10 16:47:57 lbt_: forge your useragent Dec 10 16:48:03 anidel: I got the same error Dec 10 16:48:17 anidel: the screen is an area on which things can be placed Dec 10 16:48:30 anything which is on the screen is "off screen" Dec 10 16:48:42 something which doesn't fit entirely "on screen" is "partially off screen" Dec 10 16:48:43 timeless_mbp: is ovi worth it? Dec 10 16:48:50 uhm ok Dec 10 16:48:53 lbt_: not with a typo... Dec 10 16:49:01 anidel: I guess it's the publisher :) Dec 10 16:49:11 And no, backgammon isn#t downloadable either. Dec 10 16:49:26 range: yup Dec 10 16:49:39 But I have an update for bounce evolution :) Dec 10 16:49:45 Offscreen "The S60 Touch Applications Company" Dec 10 16:50:02 Oh. Dec 10 16:50:08 S60 emulator? >:) Dec 10 16:50:11 don't suppose they have a free upgrade for Maps do they? Dec 10 16:50:27 timeless_mbp, I can download some stuff (music, trailers), but the rest is not available yet Dec 10 16:50:37 * lbt_ considers offering "rm" as an upgrade. Dec 10 16:50:38 and the media files are drm protected, lol Dec 10 16:50:40 bbl Dec 10 16:50:49 VDVsx: Do they play/work?! Dec 10 16:51:00 Jaffa, no Dec 10 16:51:04 VDVsx: Ah. Dec 10 16:51:09 may be it's just a beta and they're testing with some random apps? don't think so myself :P Dec 10 16:51:12 .dm is the extension Dec 10 16:51:16 presumably for the drm you need to get a key which comes some other way Dec 10 16:51:23 dm = digital music? :) Dec 10 16:51:31 I assuem that .dm is for S60 as well Dec 10 16:51:41 Some of the little apps look quite fun Dec 10 16:51:48 Jaffa, those files work in my symbian device Dec 10 16:52:05 see Dec 10 16:52:06 "Disks Touch" has a review from a "peter.schneider" Dec 10 16:52:09 .oO ( "Comes with no Music" ... ) Dec 10 16:52:25 timeless_mbp, http://www.fileinfo.com/extension/dm Dec 10 16:52:34 looks like it's Delta Music? Dec 10 16:52:42 oh, delivery message Dec 10 16:52:43 how obvious Dec 10 16:52:49 why didn't i think of that... Dec 10 16:53:03 :) Dec 10 16:53:16 and these were Trailers! Dec 10 16:53:34 wouldn't want you to copy them... Dec 10 16:53:44 dunno lol Dec 10 16:53:50 I can copy them from the web Dec 10 16:53:51 lol Dec 10 16:53:56 :) Dec 10 16:54:25 but the Ovi catalog had some updated packages... minor numbers though Dec 10 16:54:58 Ah! Tap on "Offscreen" - it's the name of the sodding developer! Dec 10 16:55:13 "Offscreen - The S60 Touch Applications Compnay. http://www.offscr.com" Dec 10 16:55:17 oh Dec 10 16:55:18 heh Dec 10 16:55:32 I wrote that before :p tsk! Dec 10 16:57:09 hmm Dec 10 16:57:20 fremantle kinda rocks Dec 10 16:57:34 i especially like contacts Dec 10 16:59:56 how do you type '1'? Dec 10 17:00:10 fn? Dec 10 17:00:16 m/[lI1]/ Dec 10 17:00:33 slonopotamus: Now you need only 0 and you can start coding! Dec 10 17:00:51 i mean... it isn't very easy to press fn and q Dec 10 17:01:04 simultaniously Dec 10 17:01:32 slonopotamus: There is probably a way to put fn to "lock mode" Dec 10 17:01:36 or something, you know Dec 10 17:01:36 even worse, fn + a Dec 10 17:01:42 press fn twice Dec 10 17:01:44 it'll lock it Dec 10 17:01:58 press it again to unlock it Dec 10 17:02:26 same for Shift (Caps Lock) Dec 10 17:03:06 slonopotamus: you don't have to press both simultaniously, at least in gtk/qt apps Dec 10 17:03:09 you can press fn + a with one thumb Dec 10 17:04:05 fn + a - agreed Dec 10 17:04:16 fn+q - woops Dec 10 17:04:47 err Dec 10 17:04:47 as javispedro said, you can press FN once, release it and then the letter Dec 10 17:05:21 fn+shift+z gives $€ Dec 10 17:05:23 so one press and FN stays locked for a single char, press it twice and it stays locked until you press it again Dec 10 17:05:57 oh,k Dec 10 17:06:02 ah.. good to know Dec 10 17:06:22 some for Shift Dec 10 17:06:25 *same Dec 10 17:07:01 to write accented letters, press FN then Sym then the accent you want and THEN the letter you want accented Dec 10 17:07:18 good to know? dont ya read the manuals? ;) Dec 10 17:07:22 * javispedro reminds the maebar event ;) Dec 10 17:07:29 btw, gps doesn't work without cell connection at all Dec 10 17:07:34 what manual ? ;) Dec 10 17:07:52 you might wonder how to then write a single ~ or ' or ` .. FN then Sym then the symbol (~ or ' or whatever) then space Dec 10 17:07:52 slonopotamus: yeah, seems ovi maps bugs though Dec 10 17:08:01 slonopotamus: real performance should be similar to the disastrous n810 one Dec 10 17:08:19 Scummer there should be a PDF in the device Dec 10 17:08:32 PDF? I got a bunch of html files. Dec 10 17:08:44 javi, at all means at all. damn, where's equals sign? Dec 10 17:08:44 oh ok.. that Dec 10 17:09:01 manuals are for engineers.. Dec 10 17:09:17 and tab to autocomplete nicks... Dec 10 17:09:34 Scummer: and for people that want more bang to their buck Dec 10 17:09:39 the tab i've been looking for as well.. to autocompletely commands Dec 10 17:09:56 slonopotamus: you tried without ovi maps? Dec 10 17:10:14 it is with the symbols.. but the tab should be on the physical keyboard Dec 10 17:10:16 javi, with what then? Dec 10 17:10:30 there's a debug tool roaming around bugs.maemo.org Dec 10 17:10:44 ovi maps is absolutely awful and reaches uselessness for me Dec 10 17:10:59 ctrl+i works in xterm for tab Dec 10 17:11:07 hmm.. map tab to the pound sign? the pound ain't worth anything anymore anyway.. :) Dec 10 17:11:11 oouucchh Dec 10 17:11:12 i Dec 10 17:11:12 i Dec 10 17:11:14 i Dec 10 17:11:14 i Dec 10 17:11:15 a Dec 10 17:11:16 a Dec 10 17:11:25 ccrraapp Dec 10 17:11:39 ..? Dec 10 17:11:44 iitt ttyyppeess eevveerryytthhiinngg ttwwiiccee.. Dec 10 17:11:54 ;;DD Dec 10 17:11:56 what did you do? Dec 10 17:12:02 :-DDDD Dec 10 17:12:06 ctrl+i does work.. is that in the manual as well ? Dec 10 17:12:06 multifail Dec 10 17:12:15 yeah, got that bug once Dec 10 17:12:17 maybe i should start reading Dec 10 17:12:25 close the window and open it again Dec 10 17:12:51 oh Dec 10 17:12:56 it fixed Dec 10 17:13:39 can someone test Xournal and vote for it in Extras Testing? only 2 votes missing to reach 10.. and it's been a month there :( Dec 10 17:13:49 almost Dec 10 17:14:04 Scummer, nah, ctrl+i simply has the same ASCII code as Tab in an xterm, every grizzled bearded Unix user knows that Dec 10 17:14:17 i don't have a beard :) Dec 10 17:14:46 but man.. with the tab on the keyboard i never had to look that up.. learn something new everyday Dec 10 17:15:55 mgedmin: i'm assuming the beard needs to be grey and your last name should closely resemble stallman to know that ? :) Dec 10 17:16:35 ctrl+a throught ctrl+z are ASCII codes 1 through 26 Dec 10 17:16:37 Scummer: wrong :p I don't have a beard and my italian name is far from "stallman" ;) Dec 10 17:16:38 anidel: is xournal optified? Dec 10 17:16:56 and then you get ctrl+[, \, ], ^, _ for 27 (aka ESC) through 31 Dec 10 17:16:58 javispedro: no. If I optify it, it doesn't start Dec 10 17:16:58 lol Dec 10 17:17:01 i opened sketch Dec 10 17:17:02 and ctrl-@ is ASCII 0 Dec 10 17:17:09 and it gave me "can't open\nfile not found" Dec 10 17:17:15 wow, all i knew was ctrl-g Dec 10 17:17:16 but i was *opening* sketch Dec 10 17:17:18 my rootfs went down 6% ... :P Dec 10 17:17:55 pupnik: CTRL-s to pause screen scrolling, CTRL-q to un-pause it... dunno if it works in Terminal Dec 10 17:18:03 should Dec 10 17:18:15 javispedro :D I shall try optifying the libraries it depends on Dec 10 17:18:29 nice little trap for people who don't know what they did to make their terminals freeze ;) Dec 10 17:18:40 maybe I am being paranoid but up so far I still had the same % as the device came Dec 10 17:18:42 :) Dec 10 17:18:55 true true Dec 10 17:19:18 * timeless_mbp hates ctrl-s/ctrl-q Dec 10 17:19:24 ctrl-s is easy to hit instead of ctrl-a Dec 10 17:19:24 what we need is the autobuilder to start optifying things Dec 10 17:20:19 javispedro; I still think it should be added to the Rules file by the developers, but it should be incorporated in the documentation when talking about packaging for Maemo. Is it there already? Dec 10 17:20:45 I don't like the idea of autobuilder doing something the developer isn't aware of Dec 10 17:21:30 anidel: one would be allowed to disable it, but by default I think it should optify Dec 10 17:21:46 javispedro: I respectfully disagree :) Dec 10 17:21:57 the documentation says "maemo-optify" before dh_builddeb call Dec 10 17:21:58 btw typing ctrl-^ is difficult on n900; so far I only managed by using the Ctrl toolbar button and pressing Fn+6 Dec 10 17:22:00 in debian/rules Dec 10 17:22:14 and maemo-optify in Build-Depends in debian/control iirc Dec 10 17:22:19 javispedro: so fine.. a MAemo developer has no excuses to avoid it Dec 10 17:23:07 I will try it again tonight.. last time it made Xournal unable to start.. it made some mess with the links.. if I recall correctly it did move files but didn't link them Dec 10 17:23:21 BUT if I fix it.. I will lose a month worth of votes :) Dec 10 17:23:24 anidel: I wouldn't mind because my apps don't tend to depend on lots of libraries... but you'll have to edit a bunch of libraries' debian/rules files for... Dec 10 17:23:37 something that could be done automatically :) Dec 10 17:24:01 javispedro: yep.. so simply provide the tool to the developer and he'll run it against his files BEFORE uploading them to the autobuilder Dec 10 17:24:29 or just edit dh_builddeb dammit :) Dec 10 17:24:55 you can get same result as what the autobuilder would get -- by running maemo-optify-deb package.deb Dec 10 17:25:56 any ideas why this wouldn't work?: buf = gdk_pixbuf_new_from_file_at_scale(filename, 640, -1, TRUE, &error); Dec 10 17:25:56 so.. I think something like this should be made explicit by the developer. We're moving around his files. He has to know that more clearly than a subtle change to builddeb o some automatic tool in autobuilder. Dec 10 17:26:14 there's an 'error' there :p Dec 10 17:26:49 height -1 ? Dec 10 17:26:59 oh ok Dec 10 17:27:04 should perform automatic scaling of that dimension so I read Dec 10 17:27:21 which error do you get? Dec 10 17:27:30 the odd thing is that buf==NULL and error is not set either Dec 10 17:28:25 is filename correct? Dec 10 17:28:48 yes, but even if it weren't, one or other should be set Dec 10 17:29:06 yep.. how is error defined? Dec 10 17:29:20 GError *error; Dec 10 17:29:38 try GError *error = NULL; Dec 10 17:30:00 is it allocating error automatically ? Dec 10 17:30:18 I think it should set it, then I should free it Dec 10 17:30:32 lardman: GErrors must be initialized before calling the function. Dec 10 17:30:35 yes so it may check for error being set to null Dec 10 17:30:42 ah ok Dec 10 17:30:44 "must" or can? Dec 10 17:30:47 MUST. Dec 10 17:30:54 In the RFC sense. Dec 10 17:30:57 ok, my fault then, thanks chaps Dec 10 17:31:01 ok Dec 10 17:31:36 I think the idea is you can call a bunch of functions which can return a GError, and then only check at the end if anything went wrong, without leaking memory. Dec 10 17:32:05 Like most error handling schemes, this is mostly a pipe dream. Dec 10 17:33:00 derf: if you only check at the end, you only get the last error, do you? Dec 10 17:33:41 or the latter fns fail to work as error is set? Dec 10 17:33:51 which would explain all my issues in one go Dec 10 17:33:58 A GError* must be initialized to NULL before passing its address to a function that can report errors. Dec 10 17:34:08 so it's the opposite.. Dec 10 17:34:14 looks like to me.. Dec 10 17:35:22 in this way it's only allocated if there's an error, preserving memory in case everything is fine Dec 10 17:35:27 and if it's not NULL, just return Dec 10 17:35:49 because the assert fails.. there must be a check in the function Dec 10 17:35:54 e.g. as if an error was being passed thought Dec 10 17:36:06 s/thought/through Dec 10 17:36:11 yep Dec 10 17:36:19 and was not properly checked Dec 10 17:36:22 right, so hopefully my code will now just work Dec 10 17:36:26 Ah, no, I was wrong. The docs say you're required to check the error after each function call. Dec 10 17:36:33 exactly.. Dec 10 17:36:36 So I have no idea why they force you to initialize it. Dec 10 17:36:49 for the reason you said Dec 10 17:36:49 if you don't and error is set, then the next function will do nothing Dec 10 17:37:00 they don't Dec 10 17:37:02 so you can continue calling functions and they realise an error has already happened Dec 10 17:37:20 lardman: http://library.gnome.org/devel/glib/unstable/glib-Error-Reporting.html disagrees. Dec 10 17:37:27 oh Dec 10 17:37:27 It claims that such usage is always a bug. Dec 10 17:37:41 GError *error; error = NULL; function (param1, param2, &error); Dec 10 17:37:52 if (error != NULL) { check it } Dec 10 17:38:36 yep.. piling up errors is incorrect Dec 10 17:38:53 but the second function will just do nothing Dec 10 17:39:06 so an error doesn't do more damage because of a faulty code Dec 10 17:40:16 You hope. Dec 10 17:40:23 It seems in no way guaranteed. Dec 10 17:40:33 lardman: remember to always initialize your variables, some languages do that, C doesn't Dec 10 17:40:42 derf: well of course not Dec 10 17:41:16 derf: but it helps a bit.. better do nothing when error is set, than doing something when the environment is possibly unstable Dec 10 17:41:38 anidel: I didn't think it needed it as I was passing a pointer and had to free what it returned Dec 10 17:41:56 though it is my fault for not understanding how it dealt with non-NULL pointers Dec 10 17:42:33 lardman: well you were passing a non NULL value, it could have been a pointer to a correctly allocated memory Dec 10 17:42:43 lardman: ignoring that would have possible generated a leak Dec 10 17:42:48 *possibly Dec 10 17:42:58 indeed, but most code doesn't check ;) Dec 10 17:43:08 and I knew it wasn't pointing to anything, etc., etc. Dec 10 17:43:11 doesn't mean you don't have to initialize :p Dec 10 17:43:18 "you knew" :) Dec 10 17:43:20 saves ops Dec 10 17:43:37 doesn't help :P :) hihi Dec 10 17:43:50 not here, but anyway :) Dec 10 17:43:54 ahahah Dec 10 17:44:25 anyway.. I always initialize and optimize somewhere else. It makes for a cleaner and safer code Dec 10 17:44:55 and saves you from "oops" rather than "ops" Dec 10 17:45:27 yes mother ;p Dec 10 17:45:45 good boy ;) Dec 10 17:46:31 sorry for being pedantic... Dec 10 17:46:54 but I am a fan of clear code against optimized/unreadable one Dec 10 17:47:26 I am also very pedantic about indentation of the code.. and Xournal code is NOT ! ARGH! :/ Dec 10 17:47:33 Weird. On my N900, in the (what shall i call it) applications grid (?) under More.. all of my applications with a capital F in their name have a weird looking "F" character, i.e. FileManager FMRadio, etc. Dec 10 17:47:55 Dell Home has a pretty good deal on the N900. Dec 10 17:47:58 $450 Dec 10 17:48:35 anyone else notice the starnge "F" characters? Dec 10 17:48:39 joppu: are there any layouts with part of the screen visible? the touchkeyb seems awful large Dec 10 17:48:42 strange, even Dec 10 17:49:05 fnordianslip: screenshot? Dec 10 17:49:07 red: what? Dec 10 17:49:18 funk, its not there anymore. Dec 10 17:49:23 saw your image from 17:57 Dec 10 17:49:36 guess you edited the button images or something? Dec 10 17:49:58 http://dl.dropbox.com/u/805039/img/glossy_test2.png Dec 10 17:50:19 anidel: ok. in progress Dec 10 17:50:34 red: http://my-symbian.com/other/grafika/scr32.jpg Dec 10 17:51:05 latter seems quite fine Dec 10 17:51:31 red: It's the default one Dec 10 17:51:40 I wonder if I should trust this retailer.. Dec 10 17:51:41 http://esaleincshop.com/Mobile-Phones/Nokia-N900-Mobile-Computer-Unlocked-p16.html Dec 10 17:51:45 looks so different from pc screen ha =) Dec 10 17:51:58 if i had to guess, the glossy one looked like the original Dec 10 17:52:08 thanks Dec 10 17:52:16 not sure if the phone functionality does convince me. I don't want ear-imprints on the touchscreen :-/ Dec 10 17:52:28 CTRL-SHIFT-P to make a screenshot Dec 10 17:52:45 also the audio does sound a little bit muffled. Dec 10 17:53:01 i just hate ending calls with my ear Dec 10 17:53:32 anidel: have the shot. best place to upload it? Dec 10 17:53:46 never mind Dec 10 17:53:50 id take a capacitive screen with two-finger zoom over this one any day, but thats the only thing so far that bugs me.. will prolly get used to this one regardless Dec 10 17:53:51 fnordianslip: flickr? picasa? wherever you have an account? Dec 10 17:55:23 anidel: http://homepage.mac.com/darren.long/filechute/screenshot00.png Dec 10 17:55:48 uhm.. cool one :) Dec 10 17:56:13 anidel: is yours like that? Dec 10 17:56:44 nope Dec 10 17:56:51 hmm. will try reboot Dec 10 17:56:56 looks like the font is messed up.. yeah try that Dec 10 17:57:27 anidel: np :) Dec 10 17:57:59 it's the solution to the np = p problem?? cool! Dec 10 17:58:52 rebooting? Dec 10 17:59:20 timeless: how do you recover from a faulty font? Dec 10 17:59:33 rebuild font db and reboot? Dec 10 17:59:37 * timeless_mbp shrugs Dec 10 17:59:43 "don't do that" Dec 10 17:59:45 are the tools in the N900? Dec 10 17:59:58 the fontcache thing is Dec 10 18:00:03 iirc droidfonts uses it Dec 10 18:00:12 anidel: my Fs are ok after reboot Dec 10 18:00:41 timeless: ok Dec 10 18:00:45 all other letters seem present and correct AFAICT Dec 10 18:01:27 timeless and what's the command? Dec 10 18:01:49 can't seem to find it.. you know it? Dec 10 18:02:02 mkfont tools are not.. Dec 10 18:03:39 should i raise a bug for the Fs ? Dec 10 18:04:07 fc-cache... Dec 10 18:04:09 fnordianslip: unless you have a way to reproduce the problem the bug-report is probably worthless. Dec 10 18:04:14 fnordianslip: don't think so... Dec 10 18:04:26 like most of the ones i've done so far then :) Dec 10 18:04:27 roughly Dec 10 18:04:37 afaict, replacing fonts or localizations live requires a reboot Dec 10 18:04:44 i was supposed to poke eero about that today Dec 10 18:04:49 but got sidetracked Dec 10 18:06:29 fnordianslip - did you tell your n900 to 'F off'? It took you literally Dec 10 18:06:57 RevdKathy: Nope, not yet - it's too shiney for that Dec 10 18:07:03 these computers.. they always do whatever you tell them, never what you want them to do Dec 10 18:07:17 indeed :) Dec 10 18:07:30 I know some men like that :p Dec 10 18:07:46 Men always do whatever you tell them to do. Dec 10 18:07:56 or do nothing Dec 10 18:07:58 just their own personal way :p Dec 10 18:08:05 Yep, but never wwhat you want them to do Dec 10 18:08:06 anidel: don't talk to the computer Dec 10 18:08:26 that's what the broken mic is for :) Dec 10 18:08:46 crash: only when it has to 'F off' Dec 10 18:08:50 anyway got to go now... Dec 10 18:08:55 see you all later Dec 10 18:08:59 tra Dec 10 18:15:22 the status bar thingie which has the battery and wifi indicator and the popup, what is the process name for that? hildon-status-menu? Dec 10 18:15:52 ah up Dec 10 18:15:56 yup* Dec 10 18:27:35 andre__, :( Dec 10 18:27:48 GeneralAntilles, yes, please? Dec 10 18:28:02 andre__, I was trying. Nobody would give me the proper strings, though. Dec 10 18:28:10 for? Dec 10 18:28:17 To make a good report. Dec 10 18:28:30 errm... well, you know what I talk about, right? Dec 10 18:28:32 I had timeless's stringset installed. Dec 10 18:28:46 * GeneralAntilles wasn't trying to be sarcastic. Dec 10 18:29:03 GeneralAntilles: advanced lets you look up a string Dec 10 18:29:03 but I was :-P Dec 10 18:29:18 * timeless_mbp needs to get a way to let people copy text from zenity Dec 10 18:29:27 timeless_mbp, yes, I know, but I accidentally tapped outside of the dialog box. Dec 10 18:29:35 heh Dec 10 18:29:36 GeneralAntilles, the "Display" is not really an issue. I'd prefer to have useful "OUTCOME" sections though ;-) Dec 10 18:29:57 andre__, I dunno, it screws up the brightness curves. Dec 10 18:30:20 Either somebody can fix it or it can be removed. Dec 10 18:30:20 heh, bug 6679 is more like DIVERTED Dec 10 18:30:21 GeneralAntilles: hmm. maybe *I* am too bitchy today :-/ Dec 10 18:30:23 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6679 Need a way to manage & edit user credentials Dec 10 18:30:33 * andre__ sighs Dec 10 18:30:55 * Stskeeps passes andre__ a beer Dec 10 18:31:00 * GeneralAntilles is freaking jetlagged. Dec 10 18:31:13 GeneralAntilles: Hehe, delayed jetlag? Dec 10 18:31:33 Stskeeps, thanks. appreciated, really Dec 10 18:31:40 * RevdKathy passes andre__ a beer Dec 10 18:31:44 too much stuff broken today Dec 10 18:31:52 maemo.org bugmaster, the most unforgiving job ever Dec 10 18:31:52 :P Dec 10 18:31:53 RevdKathy, heh. thanks, thanks! Dec 10 18:32:20 :) Dec 10 18:32:23 andre__, I looked at the recent changes list on b.m.o the other day, saw more than a half-dozen red-text lines and gave up. ;) Dec 10 18:32:35 X-Fade, I keep crashing mid-afternoon. Dec 10 18:32:57 GeneralAntilles, haha. well, it's still okay. but of course, more noise. hence I try to explain people that it's not a forum... Dec 10 18:33:10 funny thing is that now I get both "Thanks" and "Fuck you" by private email. A few months ago it was only "fuck you". Now is that a good sign? :-P Dec 10 18:33:29 GeneralAntilles: Yeah, I had this wake up at 5am thing at the beginning of the week. Also not cool. Dec 10 18:34:03 I'm getting to bed at a normal time, waking up at a normal time, but crashing really early in the day. Dec 10 18:34:22 you're getting old ;) Dec 10 18:34:32 lardman, that's what I keep saying! Dec 10 18:34:33 andre__, people are usually more motivated to say F*K YOU than Thanks, so every Thanks ought to be counted 100x more Dec 10 18:34:38 andre__ can I say thanks over IRC then? Dec 10 18:34:52 Just wait, soon you'll be saying "when I were a lad..." Dec 10 18:34:56 okay, my mood is getting better. thank you all :-) Dec 10 18:35:16 lardman, dude. . . . Dec 10 18:35:23 lardman, these kids these days. <_< Dec 10 18:35:28 lol Dec 10 18:35:54 General Antilles - you are a long, long way fro old! Dec 10 18:36:15 derf: that fixed it, thanks Dec 10 18:36:22 lardman: Yer welcome. Dec 10 18:36:25 where did anidel go? Dec 10 18:36:41 anyway thanks too anidel/mum Dec 10 18:37:05 does maemo5 use gpsd? Dec 10 18:37:30 gypsy and some obscure liblocation Dec 10 18:37:53 Ha, awesome. http://intellintv.blip.tv/file/2893208/ Dec 10 18:37:59 ok, thanks Dec 10 18:38:05 GeneralAntilles: crossover games ftw Dec 10 18:38:37 is there hope for libgps to work on maemo5? Dec 10 18:38:56 http://maemo.org/community/brainstorm/view/keep_sent_and_drafts_on_imap_server/#official_email_client Dec 10 18:38:57 (i guess not, but..) Dec 10 18:38:59 danger danger high dorkage! Dec 10 18:39:08 brainstorm can't handle 100 votes Dec 10 18:39:38 Wow, posting to this one bug sends out a lot of mails. Lots of people in CC. :) Dec 10 18:40:02 * lardman goes to play some sport, bbl Dec 10 18:40:04 X-Fade, yeah, your bugs are getting popular too now :-P Dec 10 18:40:36 andre__: I blame GeneralAntilles for that one ;) Dec 10 18:41:51 X-Fade, I fixed a typo in the summary of one of those a few weeks ago without realizing how many people were subscribed. I changed all of one character and it sent out like 60 emails. Dec 10 18:41:55 i am organizing my calendar, but after creating some new calendars i got wondering what is the maximum number of them? Dec 10 18:42:28 GeneralAntilles: Yeah, fun stuff.. Dec 10 18:42:33 i work on various projects, i would love to have a separate calendar for each. but if there's a limit of, say 10 calendars, i will run out of them in no time Dec 10 18:42:57 so should i instead have calendars like "work", "study" etc, and not more atomic ones Dec 10 18:43:14 and what the hell am I getting blamed for now, anyway? :P Dec 10 18:43:32 GeneralAntilles: The servers one. Dec 10 18:43:36 GeneralAntilles: world war 2 Dec 10 18:43:57 Ah, christ. Dec 10 18:44:11 X-Fade, I hate that the angry mob attached itself to that one. Dec 10 18:44:15 No, just his appointed representative Dec 10 18:44:39 X-Fade, I had to stop myself from RESOLVING it this morning. Dec 10 18:44:42 GeneralAntilles: I don't mind that, really. Dec 10 18:44:58 Gadgetoid, no, World War 2 is still mine. Dec 10 18:44:58 also i wonder what would happen if i deleted a calendar... would all the events be removed too or just their colour and the events would go to the default N900 -calendar... that's easy to test however Dec 10 18:45:17 GeneralAntilles: Things _are_ slow atm, but at least most of the hardware is now getting delivered. Dec 10 18:45:41 RevdKathy, my father favors, "I guess you didn't recognize me without my sandals." ;) Dec 10 18:45:42 X-Fade... yeah no more shipping threads!! :D Dec 10 18:45:51 LOL Dec 10 18:45:53 good reply Dec 10 18:45:54 ok yeah, deleting a calendar also removes the entries in it Dec 10 18:46:30 So, tekonivel, who is gonna hate you now for forgetting theirbirthday? Dec 10 18:47:09 OMFG! I see the brainstorm page! f1rst time ever loaded for me :) Dec 10 18:47:57 hmm... i wonder how safe it would be to install a trunk version of modest and tinymail... Dec 10 18:48:57 20:37:51 GeneralAntilles: Ha, awesome. http://intellintv.blip.tv/file/2893208/ Dec 10 18:49:03 translate this jiberish Dec 10 18:49:09 what is it about? Dec 10 18:49:13 Ceron^, ask crashanddie. Dec 10 18:49:20 Ceron^, it's Khertan talking about Maemo. Dec 10 18:49:36 some new browser ? :\ Dec 10 18:49:46 No, just Maemo in general. Dec 10 18:50:10 gah.. french Dec 10 18:52:37 Baaah my partner is drinking mulled bloody wine at the Samsung christmas party... AYEWANNAAAGOO!! damn London Dec 10 18:52:52 Sounds wonderful! Dec 10 18:53:00 RevdKathy: lol facebooks sends greetings automatically anyway :) Dec 10 18:53:06 Damn London? Unhappy you're not there, I'm guessing? Dec 10 18:53:38 That's no use - no proof you thought of them at all Dec 10 18:53:50 Yes GiantTalkingCow... I should have moved closer Dec 10 18:54:03 how do i conjure a pipe from the keyboard? i want to run 'dmesg |grep -i "bogomips"' Dec 10 18:54:04 I missed the Nokia party too Dec 10 18:54:04 * RevdKathy is writing Christmas cards by hand Dec 10 18:54:30 tekonivel, Blue key and Contorl key Dec 10 18:54:38 tekonivel: top right of the symbols menu Dec 10 18:54:43 Ah well, c'est la vie. Not fond of the holidays myself, parties or no. Then again, I do live in the US, which likely has something to do with it. Dec 10 18:55:10 I like gadget related parties GiantTalkingCow, but I'm generally a bit out of place at any other variety Dec 10 18:55:19 andre__: wow thanks! Dec 10 18:55:45 I don't dislike parties, I just loathe the traditional Christmas decorations, trimmings, songs, etc. Dec 10 18:55:59 Ceron^: He's saying "I'm an individual developer in the Maemo Community, I develop Open Source applications for Maemo. Maemo is an Open Source operating system developed by Nokia, based on Debian, bla bla bla Dec 10 18:56:14 The only thing that has made me dislike the holidays is working retail. ;) Dec 10 18:56:32 I don't think I could work retail Dec 10 18:56:41 * SpeedEvil places a reindeer hat on GeneralAntilles. Dec 10 18:56:45 why did you paste that stuff ;( Dec 10 18:56:49 bugger, dmesg doesn't mention bogomips Dec 10 18:56:50 if it wanst anything good! Dec 10 18:56:51 "Package libzeemote is not available, but is referred to by another package. Dec 10 18:56:51 bah humbug Dec 10 18:56:57 Personally, I think working retail should be required for citizenship. ;) Dec 10 18:57:05 I just hate the commercial blitz that accompanies the holidays in the US. Also, this recent "War on Christmas" shit that's been popping up every year. Dec 10 18:57:08 Any clue what package refers to libzeemote? i see http://maemo.org/packages/view/libzeemote/ Dec 10 18:57:08 Ceron^, because Khertan's on TV? Dec 10 18:57:12 Try working in the church: by 20th Dec you never want to see another mince pie or sing 'O come all ye'... but I still love it Dec 10 18:57:28 oh nm Dec 10 18:57:56 * el_zilcho check his repo list Dec 10 18:58:03 Ceron^: he's also saying that Maemo 5 is the first version of Maemo available on a phone form factor, which completely changes the market to which it's aimed, and that the next version will be based on Qt and not GTK, and that his main challenge is that he needs to re-write all of his apps to work nicely in the completely new finger-friendly Maemo 5 UI, and the future Qt libraries Dec 10 18:58:14 is anyone currently maintaining libzeemote? Dec 10 18:58:53 i think i have to to add some repos that got removed when i used app manager Dec 10 18:58:56 Frankly, I'm not hugely fond of finger-based UIs, myself. Or rather ones that are solely finger-driven. Dec 10 18:59:53 GiantTalkingCow: are you fond of the real world? Dec 10 19:00:00 or are you afraid it might it you? Dec 10 19:00:02 Yes, why? Dec 10 19:00:07 especially w/ a pair of buns Dec 10 19:00:19 found bogomips value in /proc/cpuinfo, it's 249.96 Dec 10 19:00:26 Anybody tried the E72 yet, by the way? Dec 10 19:00:28 GeneralAntilles: anything else you need translating? Dec 10 19:00:37 crashanddie, no, you may go. :P Dec 10 19:00:50 Not really. In addition to being a talking cow, I can also handle most firearms. The last Texan that tried turning me into brisket is now stuffed and mounted on my wall. Dec 10 19:00:58 GeneralAntilles: thank you, SIR Dec 10 19:01:04 heh Dec 10 19:01:08 compared to 3200+2400 on my real computer Dec 10 19:04:51 are there any qt apps for n900 :l Dec 10 19:05:08 Several, yes. Dec 10 19:06:11 GeneralAntilles: do you remember adventures in splash screens? Dec 10 19:06:46 timeless_mbp, OS splash screens or application splash screens? Dec 10 19:06:52 os Dec 10 19:06:53 Actually, I should probably just answer, "No". Dec 10 19:06:59 the maemo rotation one Dec 10 19:07:15 Rotation? Dec 10 19:07:22 i'm wondering which codec the one i'm using is using and if i could get someone to transcode to mpeg4 Dec 10 19:07:44 maemo.org w/ the orange/silver balls and the various open source project logos Dec 10 19:08:03 Oh, that's from Talk. Dec 10 19:08:22 btw.. is ogg not supported on the n900 ? Dec 10 19:08:28 Can you replace the video with the little pulsing dots? Dec 10 19:08:33 Scummer, install ogg-support from Extras. Dec 10 19:08:36 derf, yes. Dec 10 19:08:37 ah Dec 10 19:08:42 thanks Dec 10 19:08:44 GeneralAntilles: Link? Dec 10 19:08:48 you can replace it w/ anything you like Dec 10 19:08:53 i've replaced it w/ that video Dec 10 19:08:55 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=32935 <- timeless. Dec 10 19:08:56 Or rather, where is the file? Dec 10 19:09:02 derf, it's all handled by hildon-welcome. Dec 10 19:09:16 derf, that Talk link should have the details in the first post. Dec 10 19:09:19 GeneralAntilles: Thanks. Dec 10 19:10:07 tekonivel: qdl-SLA:~ # cat /proc/cpuinfo | grep -i bogomips bogomips : 15328.88 Dec 10 19:10:31 GeneralAntilles: Hmm, that's the hands video. I meant the other one. Dec 10 19:10:35 GeneralAntilles: yeah, but which codec is it using? Dec 10 19:10:42 * VDVsx needs a new twitter app for the n900 Dec 10 19:10:43 i'm told that mpeg4 has the best perf Dec 10 19:10:44 Well, "animation", I don't even know if it's actually a video. Dec 10 19:10:44 derf, it's in the same folder. Dec 10 19:10:55 timeless_mbp, mpeg4 with an avi container. Dec 10 19:10:58 GeneralAntilles: Uh, Dec 10 19:10:58 root /usr/share/hildon-welcome/media # ls Dec 10 19:10:58 Hands-v32-h264.avi Dec 10 19:11:14 timeless_mbp, however anything that GStreamer supports will work. Dec 10 19:11:16 derf: yeah, i have splash.avi Dec 10 19:11:16 derf, OK, I THOUGHT it was there. Dec 10 19:11:18 Hrm Dec 10 19:11:29 the other file is in /etc/hildon-welcome/ Dec 10 19:11:42 lemme toss up my package Dec 10 19:12:26 Yeah, I have no splash.avi on the entire system. Dec 10 19:12:39 derf: yeah, splash is my replacement Dec 10 19:12:52 Yeah, I'm not trying to replace hands. Dec 10 19:12:52 i'm too lazy to give it a more interesting name Dec 10 19:13:01 what are you trying to do? Dec 10 19:13:04 I'm trying to replace the _other_ animation thing. Dec 10 19:13:08 With the pusling dots. Dec 10 19:13:15 if you don't like the default thing just kill the .conf from /etc/hildon-welcome/ Dec 10 19:13:23 s/me/me.d/ Dec 10 19:13:25 timeless_mbp meant: if you don't like the default thing just kill the .conf from /etc/hildon-welcome.d/ Dec 10 19:13:26 timeless_mbp: Yes, I already did that days ago. Dec 10 19:13:44 * timeless_mbp is confused Dec 10 19:14:13 timeless_mbp, they may very well be .pngs. Dec 10 19:14:19 Er, s/timeless_mbp/derf/ Dec 10 19:14:31 When you turn on the phone there is a) a giant Nokia logo b) some pulsing dots c) the hands video d) more pulsing dots. Dec 10 19:14:32 In which case they're in the icon share somewhere under hildon. Dec 10 19:14:38 Same as the bootsplash from Maemo 4. Dec 10 19:14:47 andre__, updated. Dec 10 19:15:00 thanks :) Dec 10 19:16:11 GeneralAntilles: tell me an example of qt app on maemo Dec 10 19:16:30 hmm Dec 10 19:16:41 someone is claiming it isn't possible to SSU-update N900 without a SIM Dec 10 19:16:46 that's wrong, right? :P Dec 10 19:16:51 Shopper, danielwilms application catalog browser. Dec 10 19:17:03 Stskeeps, I can't imagine how it'd be required. Dec 10 19:17:03 Stskeeps: i can't imagine it's right Dec 10 19:17:17 given that the n800/n810 didn't need a sim.. Dec 10 19:17:23 Well, actually, I CAN _imagine_ it, but it doesn't make any sense. Dec 10 19:17:36 GeneralAntilles: your imagination is too active Dec 10 19:17:39 timeless_mbp: didn't need? more like couldn't use Dec 10 19:17:52 timeless_mbp, oh c'mon, you WORK there. :P Dec 10 19:18:17 GeneralAntilles: i don't need to imagine Dec 10 19:18:19 all i have to do is look Dec 10 19:18:25 How can I type a | on the N900? Dec 10 19:18:26 e..g at the nokia flagshipstore Dec 10 19:18:36 Hehe Dec 10 19:18:44 murrayc_, fn-sym Dec 10 19:19:10 ooh Dec 10 19:19:25 nifty. thanks Dec 10 19:19:27 murrayc_, before you ask, the 3rd row is deadkeys. ;) Dec 10 19:19:44 murrayc_, qole's figured out something or other about rebinding keys, too. Dec 10 19:19:44 hello Dec 10 19:19:52 Ah! /usr/share/icons/hicolor/scalable/hildon/indicator_update?.png Dec 10 19:20:06 Thanks General Antilles! Been looking for those symbols! Dec 10 19:20:25 GeneralAntilles: Oh, so that's the deadkeys weirdness that I keep hearing about. Dec 10 19:20:51 So how do I actually enter ~? Dec 10 19:21:11 any french on this chan? Dec 10 19:23:11 oui Chiku, je suis un pamplemouse! Dec 10 19:23:30 pamplemousse Dec 10 19:23:33 murrayc_, press space. Dec 10 19:23:42 why pamplemousse? Dec 10 19:23:47 I got told! Dec 10 19:23:49 murrayc_, supposedly PR1.1 has an improved UI indicator or something. Dec 10 19:23:54 do you got n900? Dec 10 19:24:06 Yup Dec 10 19:24:23 bought from th phouse house shop? Dec 10 19:24:38 GeneralAntilles: How awful. +1 on that bug. Dec 10 19:24:57 Nokia online store :).. and I'm about as french as fried bread Dec 10 19:25:05 andre__, ping? Dec 10 19:25:15 GeneralAntilles, pong! Dec 10 19:25:34 ok Gadgetoid Dec 10 19:25:36 andre__, can we change the quicksearch on the frontpage to search all bugs by default? Dec 10 19:25:39 Not just open ones. Dec 10 19:25:50 odd.. why doesn't scratchbox read the resolv.conf ? Dec 10 19:25:56 murrayc_, bug #5314 Dec 10 19:26:00 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5314 Easy to enter ~ ^ ' ` " symbols with 3rd row of special character view Dec 10 19:26:01 GeneralAntilles, file me a ticket, please :) Dec 10 19:26:01 Scummer: it's idiotic Dec 10 19:26:04 GeneralAntilles: Yes indeed. Dec 10 19:26:14 Scummer: /scratchbox/etc/resolv.conf - there's a FAQ on ths Dec 10 19:26:17 looks like no french around Dec 10 19:26:28 I tried to "do it right".... but if you look at what's needed you begin to realise... Dec 10 19:26:30 andre__, I'd complain except it sounds like you're telling me to karma whore. Dec 10 19:26:35 * GeneralAntilles skips over to bugzilla. Dec 10 19:26:48 * lbt unpacks a Joggler... Dec 10 19:26:51 keeps: uah.. ok Dec 10 19:27:07 lbt: pics! pics! Dec 10 19:27:07 :P Dec 10 19:27:22 murrayc_, bug 5314 is... sigh, about Managers that think that they know better than users. The internal ticket shows that quite well :-( Dec 10 19:27:41 andre__, managers ALWAYS know better than users. Dec 10 19:27:59 andre__ what do mere users know? Dec 10 19:28:05 yeah. all depends on the definition of "reality", the one you have internally and the one out there... Dec 10 19:28:18 andre__: Must be some weird managers. Dec 10 19:28:43 well, it's one of the very few tickets where I became insulting :-P Dec 10 19:28:46 will there be support for dynamic WEP onetime? works perfect on linux, so dont see a big problem Dec 10 19:29:06 who needs WEP? Dec 10 19:29:21 hi, does someone run quake 3 on the n900? Dec 10 19:29:22 WEP is broken, even dynamic one Dec 10 19:29:32 * timeless_mbp curses Dec 10 19:29:58 andre__, insulting. Oooh. Dec 10 19:30:03 * GeneralAntilles gives andre__ a cookie. Dec 10 19:30:12 keeps : the odd part was /etc/resolv.conf inside scratchbox and /etc/resolv.conf outside of scratchbox differed... confusing Dec 10 19:30:19 sigh, wifi won't connect... reboot... Dec 10 19:30:26 hey andre__ Dec 10 19:30:30 but with /scratchbox/etc/resolv.conf it works of course.. Dec 10 19:30:43 did you want a dmesg or something when wifi won't connect? Dec 10 19:30:43 dammit Dec 10 19:30:48 andre__: 5413 sounds like a "everyone does not speak finnish" mentality Dec 10 19:30:53 er, 5314 Dec 10 19:31:03 GeneralAntilles, yummy Dec 10 19:31:30 Arkenoi: me! tell that to my university... Dec 10 19:31:45 andre__: a couple of notes Dec 10 19:31:48 andre__, did you already ate all the chocos ? Lol Dec 10 19:31:51 dead keys exist on windows and linux too Dec 10 19:32:02 and they're pretty much nearly as stupid as the ones in maemo Dec 10 19:32:04 VDVsx, sshhh! Dec 10 19:32:13 * VDVsx hides Dec 10 19:32:18 although most of them were smart enough that tapping twice inserted the key Dec 10 19:32:24 instead of requiring you to press space Dec 10 19:32:35 the windows onscreen keyboard has the same general behavior Dec 10 19:32:37 timeless_mbp: I refer to arguments like "This is how it always works, everywhere" while I even posted official microsoft URLs showing that it's not true Dec 10 19:32:41 (of course, it mimics the real one) Dec 10 19:32:55 Double tap is pr1.1 behavior. Dec 10 19:32:56 i'm @c7 Dec 10 19:33:05 X-Fade: 1.1 is vaporware Dec 10 19:33:18 timeless_mbp: Just saying ;) Dec 10 19:33:26 humm ~ works in the same way in my linux box as in the n900, where's the problem ?? Dec 10 19:33:40 VDVsx: problem is that most customers don't use dead keys Dec 10 19:33:47 so they have no idea how a dead key works Dec 10 19:33:53 timeless, their problem :P Dec 10 19:33:55 as this is the first introduction to deadkeys Dec 10 19:33:57 um Dec 10 19:34:14 * timeless_mbp tosses a load of bricks at VDVsx Dec 10 19:34:16 And there's no clue that it's a "dead key" or a "press this, click off the window, and press space" key. Dec 10 19:34:19 Hehe Dec 10 19:34:21 timeless_mbp: isnt this configurable using a terminal? Dec 10 19:34:32 do maemo packages need to be like signed Dec 10 19:34:39 asidjazz: no Dec 10 19:34:45 He may hate on the normal folks, but he's awesome at ordering tapas. :P Dec 10 19:34:46 valdyn: eh? Dec 10 19:34:52 timeless_mbp: what about the cert crap symbian does Dec 10 19:35:06 asidjazz: you're welcome to sign things Dec 10 19:35:06 asidjazz, lol. Dec 10 19:35:09 but you don't have to Dec 10 19:35:10 timeless, that hurts :( Dec 10 19:35:16 timeless_mbp: cant die hard linux users who really want their linux - like dead keys change the dead key setting with xterm Dec 10 19:35:24 VDVsx: don't say stupid things and you'll get fewer bricks tossed your way Dec 10 19:35:25 murrayc_: well: user manual :-/ Dec 10 19:35:29 what is default is on meamo5? Dec 10 19:35:32 shell Dec 10 19:35:36 valdyn: we don't care about die hard users Dec 10 19:35:40 we care about normal customers Dec 10 19:35:43 which is of course non-intuitive. Dec 10 19:35:47 timeless_mbp: but I asked Dec 10 19:35:47 who are screwed by this broken UX Dec 10 19:35:51 busybox? Dec 10 19:35:54 valdyn: you're offtopic Dec 10 19:35:58 * VDVsx now has a 770 sent by timeless_mbp :P Dec 10 19:36:14 People keep thinking I'm saying "topless bar" when I tell them we went to a "tapas bar". Dec 10 19:36:26 GeneralAntilles: heh Dec 10 19:36:35 andre__: so, 1. what happened to a demand that the userguide be fixed? Dec 10 19:36:36 GeneralAntilles, lol Dec 10 19:36:39 topless bar sounds better :) Dec 10 19:36:48 timeless_mbp, where, what? Dec 10 19:36:54 General Antilles... did I miss something? Dec 10 19:36:57 your c7 internal Dec 10 19:37:05 The current User guide also only covers this vaguely: Dec 10 19:37:06 "Enter special characters: Press ↗ and the sym key." Dec 10 19:37:07 "Enter accented characters: ...." Dec 10 19:37:07 No mentioning of the spacebar in order to get only the symbol. Dec 10 19:37:16 timeless_mbp, I've described my adventures in BCN to a lot of people and am a bit worried some of those folks actually think I meant "topless bar". Dec 10 19:37:17 timeless_mbp, don't know Dec 10 19:37:29 heh Dec 10 19:37:36 i went to a tapas bar in Madrid Dec 10 19:37:41 RevdKathy, only Americans being unused to the concept of tapas bars. Dec 10 19:37:42 didn't have time for one in BCN Dec 10 19:37:47 timeless, at some point discussing become non-rational :-P Dec 10 19:37:52 i also was at a tapas bar in AMS Dec 10 19:38:02 andre__: file a new bug ;-) Dec 10 19:38:29 Gneral Antilles ... you mean you didn't really go to a topless bar and I missed it? Dec 10 19:38:32 would be nice if the "special keys" keypad came up when you *PRESSED* Fn+Ctrl, not when you *RELEASED* it :) Dec 10 19:38:33 timeless_mbp, up to you. you have access to the internal tracker. Dec 10 19:38:44 RevdKathy, no, no topless bars. ;) Dec 10 19:38:45 andre__: i have no luck filing bugs internally Dec 10 19:38:51 i use it all the time, yet it seems half the time it doesnt come up Dec 10 19:38:52 you don't think i'm going to start now Dec 10 19:39:02 timeless_mbp, then you should reflect on what you might do wrong? ;-) Dec 10 19:39:12 shouldn't there be a maemo-chat room? ;) Dec 10 19:39:18 andre__: filing bugs and expecting someone to fix something? Dec 10 19:39:30 i reflected, and decided it wasn't a good idea Dec 10 19:39:38 something about a definition of insanity Dec 10 19:39:45 * VDVsx also went to a tapas bar in AMS Dec 10 19:39:45 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=421358 camkeyd for anybody who missed it the first time. Dec 10 19:39:48 repeating an action and expecting differing results Dec 10 19:40:52 timeless_mbp: maybe changing the tone sometimes? ;-) Dec 10 19:41:33 quick question, is the n900 screen supposed to have tearing? Dec 10 19:41:43 GeneralAntilles: camkeyd rocks :) Dec 10 19:41:46 i love it Dec 10 19:41:59 if its the taskswitcher key binder daemon? Dec 10 19:42:26 tigert, yes. Dec 10 19:42:34 tigert, the proximity sensor project is merging, too. Dec 10 19:42:43 So you'll be able to bind both the camkey and the proximity sensor Dec 10 19:42:51 I'm likely to bind fullscreen to the proximity sensor. Dec 10 19:43:02 Hi Dec 10 19:43:21 Hi Dec 10 19:43:42 andre__: i'm a native speaker Dec 10 19:43:46 Stskeeps: now it's downloading a new OS... Dec 10 19:43:48 my tone fluctuates as i speak :) Dec 10 19:43:49 slowly Dec 10 19:44:19 rrr__: the n900 can tear if you do certain things Dec 10 19:44:21 timeless_mbp, you want to misunderstand me, yeah. ;-) see PM Dec 10 19:44:56 any fast motion will cause it Dec 10 19:45:05 your ghost messaged me Dec 10 19:45:08 that's not fair Dec 10 19:45:57 lbt: that worries me a tad Dec 10 19:46:59 rrr__: i see it aswell, which is weird given its composited Dec 10 19:47:29 redeeman, 800x480 is a lot of pixels to push around. Dec 10 19:47:44 Stskeeps: 29% now... "Software updates" Dec 10 19:48:48 GeneralAntilles: but the N900 is a fairly powerful device Dec 10 19:50:09 lbt: http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer/Status/o2_Joggler Dec 10 19:50:15 reading... Dec 10 19:50:33 redeeman, still a lot of pixels. Dec 10 19:50:41 it's not quite what I expected... Dec 10 19:50:51 very solid and hi quality Dec 10 19:51:04 for 99, it's a real bargain Dec 10 19:51:05 GeneralAntilles: and slower devices have been doing more Dec 10 19:51:11 but very 3D with a BIG polished chrome stand Dec 10 19:51:15 oh yes Dec 10 19:51:32 no battery backup at all - only mains Dec 10 19:51:35 yeah Dec 10 19:51:43 still makes for a nice mer device Dec 10 19:51:54 Oh I have plans... Dec 10 19:52:07 actually the mains thing is almost better for e Dec 10 19:52:09 me Dec 10 19:52:35 I can't think that a new OS will stop hacking though Dec 10 19:52:41 i hope so Dec 10 19:52:47 it's a gorgeous bit of hardware Dec 10 19:52:56 stop drooling Dec 10 19:53:05 100% perfect for a linux picture frame Dec 10 19:53:05 another quick question, is the bounce demo supposed to have random clipping issues? Dec 10 19:53:22 now if only I owned openpictureframe.org Dec 10 19:53:26 oh wait, I do. Dec 10 19:53:33 heh Dec 10 19:53:46 and .com Dec 10 19:54:50 how many inches was the screen again? Dec 10 19:55:09 same as Q7 Dec 10 19:55:24 k Dec 10 19:56:18 my cat just licked my^H^Hyour Joggler Dec 10 19:56:21 :P Dec 10 19:56:23 I'm sad I missed out on a $450 N900 from Dell :( Dec 10 19:56:35 lbt: i demand cat rebate! Dec 10 19:56:36 :P Dec 10 19:56:38 oh nice, there's a stereo plug in the back Dec 10 19:57:42 redeeman, not with the same number of pixels. :) Dec 10 19:57:51 redeeman, kthxbai. Dec 10 19:58:37 GeneralAntilles: do keep in mind that most of the "juggling" can be done by memory copies, then it obviously needs to write some new stuff, but all in all, i'll bet the device is fully capable of this Dec 10 19:58:41 oops - it's rebooted 4 times now... Dec 10 19:59:15 wow joggler picture http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/11/Joggle.jpeg/180px-Joggle.jpeg Dec 10 19:59:17 lbt: not abnormal Dec 10 20:00:49 geez.. git clone of modest is taking quite a while Dec 10 20:01:41 and then in the end will even fail to build Dec 10 20:01:45 atleast it does for me :( Dec 10 20:01:51 fails during configure Dec 10 20:01:58 lbt: it has an internal mmc too Dec 10 20:02:53 ruskie: hm.. interesting.. Dec 10 20:03:53 ruskie: i let you know what happens.. once I've got the source Dec 10 20:05:36 lbt: where does the usb plugs sit? in the back or the side? Dec 10 20:05:59 andre__: i lost your bug number/comment reference Dec 10 20:06:56 timeless_mbp, doesn't matter ;-) Dec 10 20:07:04 but i want to read it Dec 10 20:07:43 it might be gps that is causing my n900 to randomly shutoff Dec 10 20:08:08 jkimball4: if you have random reboots, return it to shop and get a replacement seems to be best advice atm Dec 10 20:08:14 side Dec 10 20:08:23 worked fine all morning. shortly after i turned on the gps, shut off Dec 10 20:08:29 doesn't reboot just shuts off Dec 10 20:08:42 Stskeeps: replacement meaning a refurb? Dec 10 20:08:55 jkimball4: no, you have warranty :P Dec 10 20:09:16 Actually I sent a message to nokia support. I might just see what the have to say. Seems like dell would just jerk me around about an rma Dec 10 20:09:44 jkimball4: Dell isn't selling the N900 anymore :( Dec 10 20:09:49 oh really? Dec 10 20:09:51 I missed my chance to get one cheap. Dec 10 20:09:57 AbstractW: nay Dec 10 20:10:03 there's another good offer i just saw Dec 10 20:10:04 one sec Dec 10 20:10:06 they're cheap on amazon US too, there's a rebate Dec 10 20:10:13 Dell was $450 :( Dec 10 20:10:35 jkimball4: shutting off sounds bad.. and you're sure it's not just the blank screen timer? Dec 10 20:10:38 :P Dec 10 20:10:47 AbstractW: you just missed another $450 offer. looks like the offer expired Dec 10 20:10:51 http://dealnews.com/Unlocked-Nokia-N900-Cell-Phone-preorders-for-450-after-rebate-free-shipping/334826.html Dec 10 20:10:56 Damn. Dec 10 20:11:02 oh it was dell, too Dec 10 20:11:03 strange Dec 10 20:11:15 Its been annoying, because my credit card was recently stolen 3 days ago, and I'm waiting for a replacement. Dec 10 20:11:34 I would have ordered already, but I have no way to do so, until I get my new card in the mail! :( Dec 10 20:11:35 >< Dec 10 20:11:43 Stskeeps: funny. ;) Dec 10 20:11:44 abstract : physically stolen or the number stolen ? Dec 10 20:11:56 jkimball4: i get tricked at times by it Dec 10 20:12:05 Physically stolen, not used before I canceled it. Dec 10 20:12:07 Or lost. Dec 10 20:12:10 Stskeeps: I have to remove the battery to get the damn thing to come one after these shut offs Dec 10 20:12:13 dang Dec 10 20:12:16 Exactly. Dec 10 20:12:20 jkimball4: and you didn't toy with R&D flags? Dec 10 20:12:30 don't even know what those are Dec 10 20:12:30 So, it looks like I may be shelved with another $150 cost to get one :( Dec 10 20:12:38 jkimball4: yeah, take it in for repair/warranty Dec 10 20:12:42 if it continues after reflash Dec 10 20:13:06 well i haven't reflashed because I'm not sure how to get all my stuff off Dec 10 20:13:11 Already have a bunch of pictures and shit Dec 10 20:13:29 throw your docs on the sd card ? Dec 10 20:13:34 whats the most expensive offer you have seen for the n900? Dec 10 20:13:39 here is one for 666 EUR Dec 10 20:13:53 Doesn't the N900 act as a mass storage device, when connected to a PC? Dec 10 20:14:08 abstract: either pc suite mode or mass storage Dec 10 20:14:12 Scummer: You could always use SSH, to pull your stuff off. Dec 10 20:14:15 and it shows the sd card as well Dec 10 20:14:24 I guess i could tar up the contents of the mass storage shit Dec 10 20:14:30 yeah. Dec 10 20:14:32 I'll have to find another computer to do the flashing though Dec 10 20:14:37 I'm on Solaris Dec 10 20:14:40 no support for flasher on sol Dec 10 20:14:47 jkimball4: heh, i ran into that issue once.. Dec 10 20:14:47 spool up a vbox Dec 10 20:14:47 :P Dec 10 20:14:49 run a linux vm in solaris Dec 10 20:14:54 :) Dec 10 20:15:07 i thought about it, but that seems a like a bad idea when flashing my toy Dec 10 20:15:08 I'm a big fan of osol. Dec 10 20:15:12 I use that for my fileserver. Dec 10 20:15:22 zfs is awesome. Dec 10 20:15:27 it sure is Dec 10 20:15:28 * Stskeeps has a SS-4200E with osol and 4x1tb Dec 10 20:15:32 nice Dec 10 20:15:42 never been happier Dec 10 20:15:54 (cheap, hackable NAS) Dec 10 20:15:55 I've got 5x1TB Dec 10 20:16:03 RaidZ1 Dec 10 20:16:14 yeah, raidz1 here too Dec 10 20:16:24 z1? Dec 10 20:16:37 Its RaidZN, where N is the number of spare disks Dec 10 20:16:54 hmmm Dec 10 20:17:02 well, not exactly, there's also zfs spare disks Dec 10 20:17:09 N means how many disks you can lose Dec 10 20:17:10 :P Dec 10 20:17:11 okay so where do i do warranty stuff if the flashing doesn't work? will they send me a new one first so i'm not phoneless? Dec 10 20:17:14 not a true spare, but yeah. Dec 10 20:17:21 jkimball4: talk to nokia care and hear about it Dec 10 20:17:36 okay well in their email, they'll hopefully mention that Dec 10 20:17:46 jkimball4: You will prolly only be able to get them to send you a new phone, if you temporarially buy a second one. Dec 10 20:17:50 i'll just leave gps off for now Dec 10 20:18:02 AbstractW: that sounds gay Dec 10 20:18:07 yes, it does. Dec 10 20:18:33 but, if you're in the US, with no carriers selling that phone, that may be your only option :( Dec 10 20:18:46 zfs on linux seems to work only with fuse Dec 10 20:18:57 zfs on linux is pointless :) Dec 10 20:19:03 and crap tbh Dec 10 20:19:15 the only non-Solaris platform that it is any good on is freebsd Dec 10 20:19:16 jkimball4: it actually works decently for my backup server Dec 10 20:19:22 for my purposes Dec 10 20:19:31 hi all Dec 10 20:19:36 Stskeeps: it's slower on linux and uses a lot more memory last i heard Dec 10 20:19:40 jkimball4: probably Dec 10 20:19:44 oracle is funding btrfs for linux... Dec 10 20:19:49 I mean, why would you want zfs on linux anyway?hehe Dec 10 20:19:58 which is supposed to be oracle's zfs on linux Dec 10 20:20:05 kimball: my htpc runs linux.. but so far soft raid5 with ext4 does work ok Dec 10 20:20:19 bleeding edge ext4 eh Dec 10 20:20:21 hehe Dec 10 20:20:24 jkimball4: hw support comes to mind, or working SMART for SATA Dec 10 20:20:24 RaidZ1 > Raid5 Dec 10 20:20:25 :P Dec 10 20:20:34 :) Dec 10 20:21:00 zpool export ; zpool import ; for super easy migration. Dec 10 20:21:06 cmooon Dec 10 20:21:10 mpf Dec 10 20:21:19 AbstractW: yeha that shit rocks ! Dec 10 20:21:33 hmm, we're going for about the 5th reboot/sw upgrade in a row on this joggler.... not impressed Dec 10 20:21:49 * fnordianslip has a bright pink conky running in scratchbox. uurgh Dec 10 20:21:49 someone can explain me why the extra-devel constantly fall in error on my N900 ??? Dec 10 20:22:01 it's missing a hash Dec 10 20:22:05 what is the right way to add the extras-devel ? Dec 10 20:22:11 you probably did it right Dec 10 20:22:12 i used app manager for it Dec 10 20:22:27 worked without any probs Dec 10 20:22:33 jkimball4, any fix ? Dec 10 20:22:44 Anyone else find a $500 N900? I want a $500 N900, not a $600 N900 :( Dec 10 20:22:45 lbt: it probably does them iteratively Dec 10 20:23:02 whats the price at newegg now ? Dec 10 20:23:08 lbt: is it connected to eth? Dec 10 20:23:09 hrmm. haven't checked Dec 10 20:23:11 it has a phone number... Dec 10 20:23:12 or wifi Dec 10 20:23:13 wifi Dec 10 20:23:23 newegg is $600 Dec 10 20:23:30 :/ Dec 10 20:23:32 Creteil: it's a server thing not a local thing agaik Dec 10 20:23:42 all the 500$ deals are gone it seems Dec 10 20:23:52 shitsticks. Dec 10 20:23:58 all i want is the flac plugin Dec 10 20:24:03 lol, Amazon's up to $800. Dec 10 20:24:09 ouch Dec 10 20:24:28 gah Dec 10 20:24:33 jkimball4, ok, so why the server admin's doesn't fix it (I'm probably not the only user reporting this issue ...) ? Dec 10 20:24:37 free market at work i guess Dec 10 20:24:38 Nokia's website sells it for $610 or so. Dec 10 20:24:55 Creteil: no idea. :) but i agree that it's frustrating Dec 10 20:25:06 jkimball4, for sure ;-) Dec 10 20:25:19 Direct from Nokia is $569... but its out of stock >< Dec 10 20:25:41 Creteil: it looks to be working for me Dec 10 20:25:44 have you tried recently? Dec 10 20:25:46 jkimball4, for flac just apt-get install flac must work no ? Dec 10 20:26:00 i didn't want to drive into the terminal for that Dec 10 20:26:05 haha. Dec 10 20:26:10 needed root, but didn't feel like installing gainroot Dec 10 20:26:10 I'd try it. Dec 10 20:26:23 whats the default root password for the N900? Dec 10 20:26:27 booyah.. modest clone is done Dec 10 20:26:40 jkimball4, btw in terminal you can see explicitely why things doesn't install ... Dec 10 20:26:55 If apt doesn't find flac, just add the stable deb repository. Dec 10 20:27:02 but, that could cause other problems. Dec 10 20:27:08 jkimball4, go ahead install it and go to the terminal ... Dec 10 20:27:11 very funny Dec 10 20:27:11 I don't think I'd try an apt-get dist-upgrade :P Dec 10 20:27:25 yay. got my extras repository contributor invite. Dec 10 20:27:30 AbstractW: there isn't a default. Dec 10 20:27:40 n900 advertises ovi but can't sync to it Dec 10 20:27:54 Then just add a new deb source to your sources.lst Dec 10 20:27:57 I should stop or I'll drink to death :D Dec 10 20:28:13 * slonopotamus requests proper syncml support for n900 Dec 10 20:28:42 with no affordable N900, I'm stuck with this freaking iphone for a few more weeks. Dec 10 20:28:42 wazd: drunk on a thursday first? ;) Dec 10 20:29:19 Stskeeps: I always have the reason :D Dec 10 20:29:44 wazd: "no n900 leads to alcoholism"? Dec 10 20:29:53 Then I need a N900 sooner. Dec 10 20:29:59 hmm where the hell is flac Dec 10 20:30:02 I want my alcoholism NOW Dec 10 20:30:04 Stskeeps: continuous humiliation leads :) Dec 10 20:30:20 jkimball4: you didn't try 'apt-get install flac' ? Dec 10 20:30:34 looking in app manager Dec 10 20:30:37 AbstractW, don't complain, mine was buy at 662€ (974$ approx) Dec 10 20:30:45 Ouch. Dec 10 20:30:48 Stskeeps: not yet alcoholism but really shitty mood for sure :) Dec 10 20:31:07 I'm complaining, because I missed out :P Dec 10 20:31:17 oh it's in the ogg package Dec 10 20:31:28 * RevdKathy send wazd chocolate instead of beer Dec 10 20:31:31 kimball : flac support ? Dec 10 20:31:34 yep Dec 10 20:31:36 yes. Dec 10 20:31:40 nice Dec 10 20:31:45 i don't know about you guys but i can get on at&t's 3g network Dec 10 20:31:50 ogg is a container. Dec 10 20:31:50 AbstractW, Ouch <- not really, since I manage all the gsm phone at my office, I have the device offered by the operator ... Dec 10 20:31:52 RevdKathy: I like chocolate so much but I can't eat it :D Dec 10 20:31:52 have to tell the thing manually though Dec 10 20:32:07 jkimball4: There have been reports that the N900 doesn't work with ATT's 3G. Dec 10 20:32:11 wazd no choc? how do you survive? Dec 10 20:32:16 RevdKathy: beer :D Dec 10 20:32:31 FBReader takes forever to build =( Dec 10 20:32:35 AbstractW: it works. I made a call yesterday and was surfing the net at same time. definitely had wifi off Dec 10 20:32:46 hopefully t-mo rolls out their new network next year like announced.. 7mbit DL would be awesome Dec 10 20:32:48 btw Dec 10 20:32:51 Hrmm. Well, I hate ATT. Dec 10 20:32:52 wazd: not the same Dec 10 20:33:02 Tmobile fully covers my city, but they don't offer service here O_o Dec 10 20:33:07 ATT drops calls all the time. Dec 10 20:33:12 that is odd Dec 10 20:33:13 I'll be switching to TMobile. Dec 10 20:33:17 Scummer: bs really Dec 10 20:33:21 i got gps fix without data connection in ovi maps Dec 10 20:33:40 so far i like the n900 on t-mobile.. my laptop is tethered, i get 1.5Mbit down and can make calls at the same time Dec 10 20:33:43 AbstractW: the N900 doesn't work on ATT's 3G, FYI. I have it and only get edge. Dec 10 20:33:53 the freq coverage range for the N900 doesn't include ATT's band Dec 10 20:33:53 I'm wondering how long before someone ports multi-touch to the N900, and google maps. Dec 10 20:34:21 AbstractW: Porting new hardware could be a bit problematic. Dec 10 20:34:30 Multi-touch isn't new hardware. Dec 10 20:34:41 Aha. Dec 10 20:34:41 Unless you need a capacative touch screen, instead of resistive. Dec 10 20:34:45 hardaker: if you switch to manual nework selection you may be able to get 3g. it's working here Dec 10 20:34:57 RevdKathy: yeah, I know :( I remember when I was eating Toblerone long ago :) Dec 10 20:35:03 I think I tried that when I first got it and it said it failed. Dec 10 20:35:09 AbstractW: you do Dec 10 20:35:19 AbstractW: the resistive screen in the n900 can't do multitouch Dec 10 20:35:23 wazd.. bournville dark... ah! Dec 10 20:35:30 I suspect you're not really on AT&T's network unless they hid the fact they bumped the data radio frequencies up Dec 10 20:35:32 toblerone... good stuff Dec 10 20:35:42 (down actually; the cut-off was higher than the AT&T band) Dec 10 20:35:52 multitouch on my old iphone was cute, but it was really only useful for a handful of things Dec 10 20:36:38 hardaker: don't know. it says at&t still. Dec 10 20:36:45 RevdKathy: you got it :) Dec 10 20:36:55 what's it say underneath the bars? Dec 10 20:36:57 wazd :) Dec 10 20:37:00 2.5 or 3? Dec 10 20:37:32 how do i find out which package a certain file comes from Dec 10 20:37:57 the n900 does get warm when tethering over usb. no cpu load tho.. maybe the radio is working hard ? :) Dec 10 20:38:05 dpkg -s FILE I think (ie, from memory) Dec 10 20:38:15 -S Dec 10 20:38:15 uurgh. bright pink conky on my N900: http://homepage.mac.com/darren.long/filechute/screenshot02.png Dec 10 20:38:53 fnordianslip: you need http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/HOT-PINK-HYBRID-HARD-COVER-RUBBER-CASE-FOR-NOKIA-N900_W0QQitemZ150394071202QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_MobilePhones_MobilePhonesCasesPouches?hash=item23042f68a2 Dec 10 20:38:58 and you've got a theme going on Dec 10 20:39:00 nooo Dec 10 20:39:14 RevdKathy: I have one question for you btw :) Dec 10 20:39:17 wow Dec 10 20:39:21 fnordianslip: What are those three blocks to the right side of the wifi thingy? Dec 10 20:39:31 range: load meter applet Dec 10 20:39:37 RevdKathy: how come maemo and toy bears were combined in a single body? :D Dec 10 20:39:38 load-applet i think Dec 10 20:39:40 wazd: ?? go ahead Dec 10 20:39:40 range: extras-devel I think Dec 10 20:39:40 mmm hot pkn Dec 10 20:39:42 pink Dec 10 20:39:46 SpeedEvil: Ah. Dec 10 20:39:57 range: cpu and ram usage iIRC Dec 10 20:39:59 SpeedEvil: are there any serious N900 cases out there? Dec 10 20:40:13 wazd.. you mean me? I have a wide, wide range of interests. maemo and bears are just a couple of them Dec 10 20:40:13 Gadgetoid_iMac: Wasn't that serious enough? Dec 10 20:40:16 Gadgetoid_iMac: Whats *NOT* serious about that? Dec 10 20:40:20 Its SERIOUSLY pink! Dec 10 20:40:23 Gadgetoid: I've got one that I don't really like that much Dec 10 20:40:27 serisouly! Dec 10 20:40:31 for serious Dec 10 20:40:33 Gadgetoid: but mostly does what it says on the tin Dec 10 20:40:45 I must admit it's strikingly pink, but I like leather Dec 10 20:40:46 I think I should get a pink case for my phone. Dec 10 20:40:50 shall i see if i can get conky into extras as my first proper effort Dec 10 20:40:58 PPPPIIINNKKK Dec 10 20:41:00 Wait... is leather better or worse than pink? Dec 10 20:41:02 you're setting off my hilight Dec 10 20:41:03 http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190353399122&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT Dec 10 20:41:04 gadgetoid: kinky Dec 10 20:41:08 I dislike the cases that are glued on leather to hard plastic. Dec 10 20:41:09 RevdKathy: good for you :) Dec 10 20:41:10 Gadgetoid_iMac: Pink leather? Dec 10 20:41:11 The leather comes off >< Dec 10 20:41:12 my current case. Dec 10 20:41:23 range: I think I might have a pink leather iPhone case somewhere Dec 10 20:41:23 Scummer - pink leather? Dec 10 20:41:31 The protector is OK, the case has some sharp edges which need sanding Dec 10 20:41:43 SpeedEvil: that one looks 'shopped Dec 10 20:41:49 jkimball4, http://pastebin.com/d656d5792 Dec 10 20:41:51 I'd say that a screen protector is required on a plastic screen. Dec 10 20:41:58 jkimball4, just use the console ... Dec 10 20:42:15 Looks like I'm going to have to start whining at Proporta to deliver a viable N900 case Dec 10 20:42:17 Creteil: Sweet. Dec 10 20:42:20 what am i using the console for? Dec 10 20:42:37 Gadgetoid: looking at the actual case - the pics are a fairly accurate reflection Dec 10 20:42:38 jkimball4: Installing flac :P Dec 10 20:42:39 jkimball4, to install flac support .. Dec 10 20:42:42 OH wait, it's on their radar Dec 10 20:42:45 Golla bags - little soft pouches for n900 in a range of colours Dec 10 20:42:47 oh. i already got it installed. Dec 10 20:42:52 haven't tested though Dec 10 20:42:52 http://www.proporta.com/F02/PPF02P05.php?t_id=4883&t_mode=des Dec 10 20:42:58 all my audio is at home. :( Dec 10 20:43:00 jkimball4, ah ... ok ... Dec 10 20:43:11 jkimball4: Test from any random flac file on the internet. Dec 10 20:43:16 Although having tried many of Proporta's aluminium lined leather cases, and appreciating them for their protectiveness I can comfortably say that I much prefer slip cases Dec 10 20:43:56 Stitched leather, just doesn't stand up to a beating like hard plastic does on a phone case. Dec 10 20:44:10 i have a krussell case.. but it is a tight fit Dec 10 20:44:15 AbstractW: I don't often beat my cases... Dec 10 20:44:35 http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190353399122&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT Dec 10 20:44:42 can one purchase these from finland somewhere? Dec 10 20:45:03 red: get the pink one. Dec 10 20:45:23 red: search n900 crystal on ebay.fi or wherever it is. Dec 10 20:45:28 red: probably Dec 10 20:46:15 red rocket! Dec 10 20:46:30 don't really fancy ebay but guess I don't have a choice Dec 10 20:46:40 Creteil: thanks for the pointers, though Dec 10 20:46:51 You do, red, wait. Dec 10 20:46:54 hell yes! microsoft finally corrected their FOSS violation! http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2009/12/microsoft-finally-open-sources-windows-7-tool.ars Dec 10 20:47:08 except they actually didn't Dec 10 20:47:20 shall we start a license flame war? ;p Dec 10 20:47:36 I have a leather pouch. That should be enough. Dec 10 20:47:38 they should have released the code used to generate the actual binary they distributed, where they instead choose to rewrite some parts and release that code, since they didn't wanna release the original Dec 10 20:47:48 Holy shit, why does every advert have to play La Roux's sodding song Dec 10 20:47:52 redeeman: Oh, damn. Dec 10 20:47:54 suck. Dec 10 20:47:56 Gadgetoid_iMac: adblock Dec 10 20:48:01 and noscript Dec 10 20:48:09 jkimball4: Errr.... on the telly? Dec 10 20:48:10 AbstractW: hardly a surprise though, considering who it is Dec 10 20:48:25 Gadgetoid_iMac: Sure :) Dec 10 20:48:36 I have someone askingwhat happened to the fm radio - it's no longer available for d/l. Anyone know why? Dec 10 20:48:37 I'm too lazy to fast forward Dec 10 20:48:55 ah well if you're not willing to expend energy to avoid them, i can't help you ;) Dec 10 20:49:04 RevdKathy, there was unfortunately a bug relating to fm radio intefering with the mic Dec 10 20:49:10 RevdKathy: The N900 has a FM reciever? Dec 10 20:49:15 and whilst its resolved its just been removed Dec 10 20:49:17 AbstractW: yes Dec 10 20:49:20 You could do it for me jkimball4... you could dance a little jig to distract my every time an annoying advert plays Dec 10 20:49:23 yes AbstractW Dec 10 20:49:26 cool. Dec 10 20:49:27 I saw that and assumed it was that, lcuk. Will it be coming back? Dec 10 20:49:31 AbstractW: and a transmitter Dec 10 20:49:37 oh, very cool. Dec 10 20:49:38 i imagine it will yes Dec 10 20:49:38 ls Dec 10 20:49:42 oops Dec 10 20:49:48 Has anyone gotten the transmitter to work with an automobile? Dec 10 20:49:49 AbstractW: the FM transmitter sucks :D Dec 10 20:49:57 yes abstract Dec 10 20:49:58 to be expected. Dec 10 20:49:58 lcuk. Good. That's what I guessed at and replied Dec 10 20:50:04 :) Dec 10 20:50:10 You could always duct tape your N900 to the car ariel, that MIGHT give you a clear signal Dec 10 20:50:15 i saw the sheepdog thread :D its sparked lots of interest Dec 10 20:50:17 * RevdKathy may be beginning to regret the pm link in my sig at t.m.o Dec 10 20:50:38 lol RevdKathy Dec 10 20:50:40 lcuk - yes the question is how to take the sheepdog further Dec 10 20:50:45 rEv9, could you please change your nick Dec 10 20:50:52 you are getting in the way of me speaking to kathy Dec 10 20:51:15 i was playing around last night actually kath Dec 10 20:51:41 i was trying to make he particles errr sheep move over an undulating field Dec 10 20:51:44 lcuk: do you need to tell us that in IRC O_o Dec 10 20:51:45 without much luck lol Dec 10 20:51:48 RevdKathy, yeah, encouraging people to PM you is never porductive. ;) Dec 10 20:52:06 its ok RevdKathy have you noticed the sex thread got administerated? Dec 10 20:52:07 lcuk: eh, what? Dec 10 20:52:11 You have to be kidding me. Dec 10 20:52:12 http://ve3d.ign.com/articles/news/51934/The-Daily-Slop-Model-Plays-WoW-Stoned-And-Naked Dec 10 20:52:17 General Antilles - I've made lots of freinds, but they seem to think I err.. know stuff Dec 10 20:52:27 lol rEv9 i type "re[tab]" and your nick comes up every time Dec 10 20:52:39 what this VMWARE rubbish idea for mobiles? Dec 10 20:52:42 so i have to delete and reenter :D Dec 10 20:52:51 Ooo I'm slightly drunk on shandy, quaffed from a classic pint mug Dec 10 20:52:54 lcuk - yeah that thread got nuked right after I suggested it should form the basis for a workshop at the next long weekend Dec 10 20:52:58 odin_: What? You want to get VMWare running on your N900? :P Dec 10 20:53:03 :O Dec 10 20:53:09 no wonder lol Dec 10 20:53:19 lcuk: if you change your irc client to a more decent one it actually remembers the last client you talked to and prefer that one when you use tab :) Dec 10 20:53:21 odin_: they want to run two shitty OSes on their phones instead of one, obviously Dec 10 20:53:29 AbstractW, no friggin way.... not util my N900 sports 2Ghz CPU and 2Gb RAM Dec 10 20:53:33 Their justification for VMWARE on phones is hilarious to say the least Dec 10 20:53:39 rEv9, cool idea! Dec 10 20:53:42 Perhaps we should stick to talking about sheep Dec 10 20:53:47 its the little things that count Dec 10 20:54:00 last nick Dec 10 20:54:00 * Dec 10 20:54:00 how am i suppoused to create album covers Dec 10 20:54:00 on the n900? Dec 10 20:54:00 :l Dec 10 20:54:00 yeah kathy Dec 10 20:54:05 could anyone tell Dec 10 20:54:18 I mean, it's exactly like me using VMWare on my MBP to "Sandbox" my work environment.. it just isn't going to happen until virtualisation is 100% efficient... which is impossible, argh! Dec 10 20:54:24 the admins don't seem to mind that Dec 10 20:54:38 * RevdKathy thinks some people have no sense of hmour Dec 10 20:54:57 Ceron^: you're listening to music, what the hell do you want album covers for!? I'll never understand that Dec 10 20:55:03 we need a designer to draw us some good sheep Dec 10 20:55:05 i dont think its a lack of humour Dec 10 20:55:08 well i just want it to look fancy Dec 10 20:55:10 thats all Dec 10 20:55:15 i tihnk it was people pointing out it was just about the best thread ever Dec 10 20:55:19 when showing the phone to friends O_o? Dec 10 20:55:27 like some iphone guy Dec 10 20:55:31 ´lol Dec 10 20:55:36 Gadgetoid_iMac: I'm a visual person and can tell albums apart better from the album covers than the music, sometimes Dec 10 20:55:51 lcuk: LOL I thought it was upholding the stereotype of geeks and nerds Dec 10 20:55:52 Ceron^, liqflow makes people go "ooooh" quite a lot :) Dec 10 20:55:52 visual aids Dec 10 20:55:55 how are the album covers made Dec 10 20:56:01 lcuk: i dont understand liqflow Dec 10 20:56:03 i cant get it to work Dec 10 20:56:08 ;/ Dec 10 20:56:09 and the accelerometer stuff gives people ideas :) Dec 10 20:56:18 Myrtti: then I envy your musical knowledge... I can just about guess an artist from the album cover Dec 10 20:56:22 if you have an n810 that might explain it Dec 10 20:56:27 lcuk: i got 900 Dec 10 20:56:28 n900 Dec 10 20:56:29 lcuk is liqflow actually available for download? Is it Mo-safe? Dec 10 20:56:31 bought one Dec 10 20:56:41 "mo-safe"? Dec 10 20:56:51 its in extras-testing Dec 10 20:56:53 liqflow? that's what you do when your girlfriend is on her... err... nevermind Dec 10 20:56:57 Safe enough for My Mo, given that I don't know how to undo stuff Dec 10 20:57:00 i got liqbase.playground Dec 10 20:57:00 and has mainly +ve stars :) Dec 10 20:57:03 do i need anything else? Dec 10 20:57:06 Ceron^, thats why lol Dec 10 20:57:11 what? Dec 10 20:57:13 O_o Dec 10 20:57:15 thats not ready for human consumption Dec 10 20:57:25 oh :D Dec 10 20:57:28 its too much power for one person Dec 10 20:57:32 and its got many bugs Dec 10 20:57:32 I put liqbase on my n810 and it esploded Dec 10 20:57:33 i loved the beer widget Dec 10 20:57:34 thing Dec 10 20:57:41 i found in there Dec 10 20:58:00 with cpu meter thing + beer Dec 10 20:58:06 http://liqbase.net/liq.20090710_002210.lib.holymoly.png Dec 10 20:58:08 where was it Dec 10 20:58:18 I'm not afraid of d/ling from other repositories - I have Xchat. ;) But I need reassurance that things won;t harm My Mo. Rough UI I don't care about Dec 10 20:58:41 liqflow on its own is nice and simple :) Dec 10 20:58:43 and works well Dec 10 20:58:52 xchat is bad. Dec 10 20:58:54 use bitchx :P Dec 10 20:58:57 liqflow is the one with the movey flowing lights, yes? Dec 10 20:58:59 <3 console Dec 10 20:59:04 * Gadgetoid_iMac downloads liqflow Dec 10 20:59:12 yes Dec 10 20:59:19 xchat is cool, it's got an x in it! Dec 10 20:59:22 http://ve3dmedia.ign.com/images/06/38/63800_sexystormtrooper_orig.jpg Dec 10 20:59:24 lcuk - the one I want for sensory work with people with learning diffs Dec 10 20:59:26 I missed those troopers. Dec 10 20:59:28 i need to update that this week Dec 10 20:59:36 * lcuk nods at RevdKathy Dec 10 20:59:38 lcuk - how big can you get a touch screen to play that on???? Dec 10 20:59:55 i would love to have massive size :$ Dec 10 21:00:15 RevdKathy: im pretty sure liqflow is open source Dec 10 21:00:38 I would settled for 15 inch that someone could reach out and touch. Could see it really working for LD sensory rooms Dec 10 21:01:05 RevdKathy: probelm is that it does wrap around rather than source sink Dec 10 21:01:24 I think software development has been slow Dec 10 21:01:28 for n900 Dec 10 21:01:30 pwnguin... err I don't understand that! Dec 10 21:01:37 pwnguin, ?? Dec 10 21:01:38 * RevdKathy is very very new to all this Dec 10 21:01:41 what do you mean Dec 10 21:01:53 if you set up a contour Dec 10 21:02:04 rather than distorting a field of falling particles Dec 10 21:02:12 it slowly forms a narrow stream Dec 10 21:02:28 it does now, or you would want it to? Dec 10 21:02:31 4 destkops is not enough :-( i'd prefer more to slide up and down Dec 10 21:02:36 thats what it does now Dec 10 21:03:02 thats befcause of the wrap, you are right Dec 10 21:03:08 Ooh! All sorts of things in extras-testing... MUST RESIST! Dec 10 21:03:23 *zap* Dec 10 21:03:26 lcuk: if you treated the top as a particle source and the bottom as a particle sink Dec 10 21:03:27 the very first version i had, once a particle goes off screen, i had it teleporting and regenerating in a random place Dec 10 21:03:29 RevdKathy where can I view extras content online? Dec 10 21:03:43 pwnguin, but then where would the flow go Dec 10 21:03:45 liqtorch is so awesome Dec 10 21:03:47 i know what you are saying Dec 10 21:04:03 perpendicular forces# Dec 10 21:04:04 lcuk: it'd still flow, right? Dec 10 21:04:10 doubtful Dec 10 21:04:17 it would push away in a group Dec 10 21:04:25 or rather, it would cause a distortion field Dec 10 21:04:29 its reasonably easy to test Dec 10 21:04:32 solpete: standard extras are here: http://maemo.org/downloads/Maemo5/ Dec 10 21:04:32 ever seen that old warp screensaver? Dec 10 21:04:44 yeah but im wondering how it would help Dec 10 21:04:49 with perception it would be crapo Dec 10 21:04:54 cos you would draw Dec 10 21:04:59 and it wouldnt do what you expect Dec 10 21:05:10 i guess we're just after different things Dec 10 21:05:21 it would be counter inuitive for live motion Dec 10 21:05:32 Damn you lcuk! Now I shal never get any work donw! Dec 10 21:05:40 :) RevdKathy Dec 10 21:05:40 Gadgetoid_iMac: Yeah, but I'd like to have a button for the LED Flash. Dec 10 21:05:48 how do you think i feel! Dec 10 21:06:20 pwnguin, Dec 10 21:06:29 if you have liqflow source, you can alter it simply Dec 10 21:06:32 RevdKathy cant fint it Dec 10 21:06:35 lcuk - it's like playing with fairy lights! Dec 10 21:06:37 lcuk: true. Dec 10 21:06:48 if you grab it, ill show you how to rotate the force by 90degrees Dec 10 21:06:55 he lcuk Dec 10 21:07:03 im not sure what the 90 degree thing would do Dec 10 21:07:04 "use the force" Dec 10 21:07:08 well it would Dec 10 21:07:12 some sdk+ developer here? Dec 10 21:07:17 cos for stuff on one side of the line it would push Dec 10 21:07:19 range: agreed! Dec 10 21:07:23 and for stuff on the other it would pull Dec 10 21:07:39 Gadgetoid_iMac: And then complain that battery life sucks :) Dec 10 21:07:40 which is exactly what you said Dec 10 21:07:47 and can be done by changing 2 variables Dec 10 21:07:57 range: I don't think I'd use it THAT often Dec 10 21:08:09 button for LED flash *has* to go inside the camera app Dec 10 21:08:13 i want led when im using camera Dec 10 21:08:19 and if it happens to be useful anywhere else Dec 10 21:08:23 you still need to open lens Dec 10 21:08:25 which opens camera Dec 10 21:08:30 which has torch icon Dec 10 21:08:37 nothing else will do for me, sorry Dec 10 21:08:59 kinda makes sense lcuk, having a separate app just to light the camera LEDs up is a bit... overkill Dec 10 21:09:15 especially when ALL the code is in the camera itself already Dec 10 21:09:22 and the camera app has to run at that time Dec 10 21:09:23 qed Dec 10 21:10:16 is it possible to paste into xterm in n900? Dec 10 21:10:30 i wonder though, if you can drive the LED from safe torch to flash Dec 10 21:10:31 Well. Brainstorm!!!! Dec 10 21:10:50 pwnguin: if you hack the kernel you can probably overload it Dec 10 21:10:55 i found the place somewhere Dec 10 21:10:58 or if flash is expecting a on / off cycle Dec 10 21:11:04 plr_: Yes. If you have something in the buffer, you can paste it via the bar at the top of xterm. Dec 10 21:11:33 range I wondered if there is some shortcuts Dec 10 21:11:53 RevdKathy, http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/liqflow/0.1.1/ Dec 10 21:12:04 if you are testing it, please verify that it operates :) Dec 10 21:12:08 hey javispedro Dec 10 21:12:16 re javis Dec 10 21:12:17 hiyo lcuk Dec 10 21:12:22 hi woglinde Dec 10 21:12:30 I will test it tonight and vote properly tomorrow :) Dec 10 21:12:33 woglinde: ctrl-v/-c doesn't work, it seems. Dec 10 21:12:39 range jupp Dec 10 21:12:48 same as in diablo Dec 10 21:12:53 roger \o Dec 10 21:13:03 lcuk? Dec 10 21:13:10 woglinde: No idea. I only had an n800 which had no real ctrl-c/-v :) Dec 10 21:13:13 lcuk: now I have to agree with you, the n900 is too fast :) Dec 10 21:13:18 range: true, thanks. I thought I had, but apparently did not Dec 10 21:13:20 woglinde, are you called roger? Dec 10 21:13:24 javispedro, :) Dec 10 21:13:26 please slow it down! :) Dec 10 21:13:38 * javispedro plans to underclock Dec 10 21:13:45 lcuk: though I seem to run out of lights. They all run away from me after a few minutes Dec 10 21:13:52 lets see if that improves battery life, I guess not though. Dec 10 21:14:02 they vanish down a blackhole/sink Dec 10 21:14:07 clear them Dec 10 21:14:13 using the little button in the bottom corner Dec 10 21:14:21 /sheeppen Dec 10 21:14:25 I intensely dislike IE6 Dec 10 21:14:35 lcuk the little button restarts it Dec 10 21:14:36 it dislikesyou too Dec 10 21:14:38 you're running ie6 on a imac? Dec 10 21:14:44 that's evil. Dec 10 21:14:48 ahhh you want to clea just the particles, but not the lines Dec 10 21:14:54 Nah javispedro, I'm remote desktopping into my PC, which is running it in VirtualPC Dec 10 21:14:56 * lcuk will make sure thats in the ui Dec 10 21:14:59 on the next one Dec 10 21:15:06 javispedro hm I thought last oe version on mac was 5 Dec 10 21:15:08 we were discussing it at the weekend Dec 10 21:15:11 args ie Dec 10 21:15:20 lcuk - no I just pressed the other corner and it all cleared! but I don't see a button there Dec 10 21:15:23 My Mac would explode into flames if I tried to run IE on it Dec 10 21:15:24 and i have layouts and notes about the required preferences, or some of them Dec 10 21:15:32 i could do with continuing the discussion Dec 10 21:15:39 ahhhh RevdKathy then its a bug Dec 10 21:15:43 Running it on a computer that's safely tucked away upstairs on the other side of the house seems like an appropriate precaution Dec 10 21:15:45 do not vote it up :) Dec 10 21:15:47 i will cure Dec 10 21:15:49 hm.. my n900 is doing weird things right now Dec 10 21:16:02 the icd2 icon is blinking but it's definitely connected and apps know it Dec 10 21:16:06 * pwnguin looks up the name of that DS homebrew particle system Dec 10 21:16:34 lcuk: I see the little green 'back' arrow, but no button in the bottom right. Pressing there works to reset - but I don't actually see what I'm pressing Dec 10 21:16:46 http://liqbase.net/liqflow_test.AVI Dec 10 21:16:58 RevdKathy, then the graphic for the button is missing, its a bug Dec 10 21:17:01 theres meant to be one Dec 10 21:17:08 pwnguin, cool Dec 10 21:17:08 more toys Dec 10 21:17:19 lcuk! aha! no, no icon Dec 10 21:17:36 it's like dancing in a snowstorm in the warm Dec 10 21:18:33 "The door resists! The door resists! The door opens". Do people really play this? Dec 10 21:18:38 i gather that wouldnt have much of an effect for you! Dec 10 21:18:45 you could stand in the rain and not get wet Dec 10 21:19:01 javispedro: kick the door down! Dec 10 21:19:04 javispedro: I personally prefer the ascii port Dec 10 21:19:12 lcuk: me? Why? I get cold and wet. But I love your snowstorm Dec 10 21:19:14 err - version Dec 10 21:19:19 javispedro: look up nethack at wikipedia Dec 10 21:19:20 :D Dec 10 21:19:33 telnet nethack.alt.org Dec 10 21:19:37 RevdKathy, i just like to clear it and twist and tilt the device, i think it looks like rain Dec 10 21:19:44 there are a dozen ormore games in progress at most times Dec 10 21:19:48 that you can watch Dec 10 21:19:55 at the maemo weekend they worked through graphical nethack i think Dec 10 21:20:15 qt gles nethack? Dec 10 21:20:15 42 even Dec 10 21:20:26 .. vulture's eye. Dec 10 21:20:27 with accelerometer controls Dec 10 21:20:32 i am running the sdk and the app man is neither showing icons nor descriptions, how can i fix that? Dec 10 21:20:52 "app man" Dec 10 21:20:57 javispedro: I find the interface confuses the underlying game mechanics. Dec 10 21:21:01 app manager Dec 10 21:21:09 javispedro: but then again - some want gooey. Dec 10 21:21:10 lcuk: I could see this being very big in therapy Dec 10 21:21:26 RevdKathy, its very theraputic to me already Dec 10 21:21:34 that video i posted up there Dec 10 21:21:39 http://liqbase.net/liqflow_test.AVI Dec 10 21:21:47 was done about 10 minutes after i made it Dec 10 21:21:58 ive wanted to do it for years Dec 10 21:22:05 lcuk - yes, but for people with learning difficuties, depression, anxiety Dec 10 21:22:12 and knew how it could work (it uses the same stars engine from original liqbase) Dec 10 21:22:28 i can bet i have all 3 of those at different times ;) Dec 10 21:22:35 LOL me too Dec 10 21:23:16 I could sell this tomorrow to these people: http://www.sensoryproject.com/ Dec 10 21:23:26 yeah you said Dec 10 21:23:44 theres some polishing work going on in the next few weeks Dec 10 21:23:49 or whole walls of it in rompa rooms Dec 10 21:23:56 SpeedEvil: have to agree, I think the interface is kind of hiding which kind of game is this one Dec 10 21:24:05 but i need to get together again with some of the folks from maemo-ui to make sure we get everything right Dec 10 21:24:14 but then there will be a really slick nicely tuned app Dec 10 21:24:44 javispedro: telnet nethack.alt.org and watch some games. It's an insanely involved game IMO. I still come back to it after >20 years. Dec 10 21:24:54 compared with your vid, I a only seeing the one icon Dec 10 21:25:00 yeah Dec 10 21:25:13 http://dl.qj.net/nintendo-ds/homebrew-games/world-of-sand-ds-v10.html Dec 10 21:25:18 It will be beautiful. Dec 10 21:25:33 * lcuk nods Dec 10 21:25:38 seems that rss reader has no fullscreen mode on n900? Dec 10 21:25:43 the same technology is being built into sheepdog Dec 10 21:25:46 sadly, no source Dec 10 21:25:46 It's alread beautiful, but you need the UI stuff like the load screen: the actual app is gorgeous Dec 10 21:25:57 Great! Woof! Dec 10 21:26:02 * lcuk nods Dec 10 21:26:09 repo.m.org is so slow Dec 10 21:26:11 im not gonna do the graphics or anything lol Dec 10 21:26:17 xorAxAx yo Dec 10 21:26:19 but ill make sure the app can be built on Dec 10 21:26:27 I wondered about creating one of those games where you have to get a bal-bearing up a spiral mountain Dec 10 21:26:50 i was just thinking of starting with the box holes version Dec 10 21:26:53 I was wondering whether Samantha could draw us some sheep Dec 10 21:27:05 if they want big heavy 3d ones it will need the big heavy 3d engine Dec 10 21:27:10 heh Dec 10 21:27:11 do you think she would Dec 10 21:27:17 probably Dec 10 21:27:23 someone would Dec 10 21:27:26 lol Dec 10 21:27:27 theres lots of interest already Dec 10 21:27:29 I think it only needs little cute sheep (or Qt sheep) Dec 10 21:27:38 i might even make a specific liqbase sketch app Dec 10 21:27:41 "draw us a sheep" Dec 10 21:27:42 hello Dec 10 21:27:44 able to lower their heads to eat and lift their tails to poop Dec 10 21:27:46 and let em be uploaded Dec 10 21:28:03 ask in the chan for sheep graphics Dec 10 21:28:10 see what people send you Dec 10 21:28:15 ideas for in game graphics Dec 10 21:28:18 how would I do that? Dec 10 21:28:23 get em to hand draw em/ made em themselves Dec 10 21:28:23 each sheep should be unique and have a name Dec 10 21:28:26 blog post Dec 10 21:28:40 "hi, to take this further, draw us some sheepy graphics" Dec 10 21:28:41 My nephew draws sheep Dec 10 21:28:46 "titles in game graphics etc" Dec 10 21:28:52 t.m.o? Dec 10 21:29:02 yeah why not Dec 10 21:29:03 :) Dec 10 21:29:22 then there will be a load of different alternative graphics for use in whichever sheepy games we have Dec 10 21:29:32 fnordianship - working towards a really advanced version where the sheep have ear-tags and you have to get each sheep in the right pen Dec 10 21:29:35 how can I download all examples from https://garage.maemo.org/svn/maemoexamples/trunk/ in one go? Dec 10 21:29:41 just take a picture of sheep and magic wand it ;) Dec 10 21:29:43 the paths that people try to make the sheep may allow multiple games to be made Dec 10 21:29:50 yeah pwnguin if you want Dec 10 21:29:51 * fnordianslip wants a sheepipede Dec 10 21:29:52 Ok.. I'll post in general! Dec 10 21:29:56 just let people be creative Dec 10 21:29:59 :) Dec 10 21:30:03 do they sell dvi switch boxes? Dec 10 21:30:06 just extend the same thread or something Dec 10 21:30:15 I was also wondering about going to a sheep farm with a sound recorder... Dec 10 21:30:16 its no hassle Dec 10 21:30:19 and easy to do Dec 10 21:30:19 for some baaas Dec 10 21:30:21 whoops wrong channel Dec 10 21:30:26 hahaha Dec 10 21:30:35 go with graphics, people like to be creative Dec 10 21:30:43 needs a bit of background baaing Dec 10 21:30:47 ask for any sort of things which might be usable in a sheep related game Dec 10 21:30:55 ok, I will :) Dec 10 21:31:03 they will end up with a style that works and suits Dec 10 21:31:10 I'll post in general in case people (like me) don' venture into games very often Dec 10 21:31:10 lcuk: just add sheep to bounce Dec 10 21:31:14 and some one else might even make a game engine for em to use em Dec 10 21:31:17 everyone wins Dec 10 21:31:23 sounds good! Dec 10 21:31:26 yeah SpeedEvil Dec 10 21:31:29 ok, I'll do that in the morning Dec 10 21:31:38 cool! Dec 10 21:31:38 lcuk: imagine smacking them through the air, and them splashing in the water! Dec 10 21:31:52 With cool ripple effects! Dec 10 21:31:52 SpeedEvil, you start making the game then Dec 10 21:31:52 meawhile, I'm going to take those snoflakes to bed: got a day learning to get out of strangleholds tomorrow Dec 10 21:31:57 you will have some graphics tomorrow night Dec 10 21:32:05 great! thanks for the help Dec 10 21:32:14 no prob kathy :) sleep well Dec 10 21:32:15 Goodnight all! Dec 10 21:32:18 I will :) Dec 10 21:32:25 and dream of sheep and snowflakes Dec 10 21:32:27 could call it "ruminat rescue" or similar Dec 10 21:32:33 ruminant even Dec 10 21:32:36 counting sheep screen saver bedtime app! Dec 10 21:32:45 wahaaa Dec 10 21:32:53 flac works Dec 10 21:33:04 lcuk: ive got it. you make a calendar drawing app Dec 10 21:33:06 lcuk: be careful1 Dec 10 21:33:09 http://www.xkcd.com/571/ Dec 10 21:33:13 every day is a new subject to draw Dec 10 21:33:25 pwnguin, what do you think i do with it already Dec 10 21:33:31 donno Dec 10 21:33:43 before i wrote the calendar i wrote an app to draw fonts on Dec 10 21:33:49 i drew a different thing in each box Dec 10 21:33:57 now i have the calendar itself Dec 10 21:34:04 but like i said to quim, the idea works for anything Dec 10 21:34:10 i was just thinking if you want people to participate Dec 10 21:34:49 http://liqbase.net/barcamp_grid.jpg Dec 10 21:34:51 yeah Dec 10 21:35:01 i know EXACTLY what you are thinking Dec 10 21:35:03 in a group drawing challenge, maybe they don't have to nessecarily draw know they're contributing to an archive. or maybe this is what you have in mind and i should stop wasting time Dec 10 21:35:07 ive already spoken with people about it Dec 10 21:35:30 its part of the collaborative orchestra application im working on Dec 10 21:35:36 w there are men on it... top men Dec 10 21:35:49 orchestra? Dec 10 21:35:51 I said Top Men Dec 10 21:36:03 woglinde, :) Dec 10 21:36:56 i remember brain age had a daily "draw x" task Dec 10 21:37:26 or weekly, semi-random. i cant remember. i guess that means fbrain age failed Dec 10 21:37:34 hahahahahahaha SpeedEvil Dec 10 21:37:50 sheep cakes: http://llamasoft.co.uk/yak/sheepcakes.jpg Dec 10 21:38:03 i posted xkcd today in a very serious channel Dec 10 21:38:04 <_claesbas> is there a bluemaemo for maemo5 for testing yet? Dec 10 21:38:15 maybe its in testing Dec 10 21:38:19 VDVsx, wake up Dec 10 21:38:20 customer Dec 10 21:38:24 <_claesbas> :-) Dec 10 21:38:31 <_claesbas> I've poked him already Dec 10 21:38:44 o_O i dont wanna know what you did lol Dec 10 21:38:48 _claesbas, and I answered Dec 10 21:39:03 <_claesbas> sorry, I saw that now.. thank you Dec 10 21:39:22 <_claesbas> hehe Dec 10 21:39:33 _claesbas, is alpha sw so don't expect that much.. Dec 10 21:39:41 i love the sound quality of my n900 + bose headset Dec 10 21:40:22 <_claesbas> Ok, I see.. I am actually helping a friend here Dec 10 21:40:33 <_claesbas> I have no n900 yet but a friend does Dec 10 21:40:53 can somebody write me a tiny .sh script which takes as a parameter a thread index and a picture file. i will write a quick sketch app which will let you submit a sketch as a photo to an ongoing tmo thread Dec 10 21:40:57 <_claesbas> and he asked for a bluetooth keuboard/mouse solution Dec 10 21:41:35 <_claesbas> VDVsx, ok, then I know.. are you working on it atm? Dec 10 21:41:47 lcuk .sh and threads? Dec 10 21:41:50 _claesbas, that's a remote controller app only Dec 10 21:41:53 .sh script file Dec 10 21:41:55 _claesbas, not too much Dec 10 21:41:56 talk.maemo.org thread Dec 10 21:41:59 using wget Dec 10 21:42:01 or something Dec 10 21:42:09 i could do it with the internal www library Dec 10 21:42:14 but this will be quicker to get moving Dec 10 21:42:25 i can let kathy have her sheep drawing app by the morning Dec 10 21:42:37 so when she opens the thread she can give people a drawing tool to send them to Dec 10 21:42:37 lcuk I am tired Dec 10 21:42:43 work was hard today Dec 10 21:42:45 is it possible to disable the "not supported by nokia" warning in the app manager? Dec 10 21:42:49 indeed Dec 10 21:42:56 was hard for me too! Dec 10 21:43:04 i had to rebuild scratchbox :S Dec 10 21:43:09 lcuk: the problem with automated posting is that you'd need to authenticate Dec 10 21:43:13 ???? Dec 10 21:43:19 haha Dec 10 21:43:21 why you are building scratchbox Dec 10 21:43:24 xorAxAx, you want to replace it with a "not supported by the developer" warning instead? Dec 10 21:43:26 instead of installing it Dec 10 21:43:31 lcuk: maybe instead, just launch a url in the browser? Dec 10 21:43:34 pwnguin, cookie gets logged in by user Dec 10 21:43:39 lcuk make cmake working in sdk+ Dec 10 21:43:39 what is the point of a 400MB losless release of an album? :) Dec 10 21:43:44 mikhas: heh, no, i want to skip it Dec 10 21:43:44 pwnguin, it needs uploading Dec 10 21:43:44 why not just release the CD? haha Dec 10 21:43:49 i do it now to liqbase.net Dec 10 21:43:53 but from inside the app Dec 10 21:44:02 theres gotta be a way to automatically post to talk.maemo.org Dec 10 21:44:05 from code Dec 10 21:44:18 sure, if you steal cookies Dec 10 21:44:23 then steal em Dec 10 21:44:24 or embed passwords Dec 10 21:44:37 thats doable Dec 10 21:44:41 ill ask for the username and password Dec 10 21:44:47 i do it now for liqbase Dec 10 21:44:50 that maybe not so bright Dec 10 21:44:53 ok, ill pass those as params Dec 10 21:44:57 even worse Dec 10 21:45:05 meh i actually store the base64 away for liqbase Dec 10 21:45:17 errr not base64 Dec 10 21:45:19 md5 Dec 10 21:45:31 on the other hand Dec 10 21:45:40 how does the flickr / facebook / etc work? Dec 10 21:45:49 same way to some degree Dec 10 21:46:04 i think flickr has some keypair tool Dec 10 21:46:04 tell me what i need to pass you to a .sh script and ill make sure its available Dec 10 21:46:11 i just wanna post pictures to tmo Dec 10 21:46:16 so kathy can get her sheep Dec 10 21:46:20 heh Dec 10 21:46:24 i could use the irc app im building Dec 10 21:46:31 but that wont be ready by the morning Dec 10 21:46:39 this can be Dec 10 21:46:42 and in extras-devel Dec 10 21:46:49 simple logistics Dec 10 21:46:58 hacky way would be to take username, password, thread and filename Dec 10 21:47:04 hi guys Dec 10 21:47:07 filename is autogenerated Dec 10 21:47:12 cos they will draw Dec 10 21:47:14 and when submit Dec 10 21:47:17 it makes file Dec 10 21:47:19 so, great Dec 10 21:47:21 do it hacky Dec 10 21:47:24 does it exist a Facebook app for the N900? Dec 10 21:47:30 then you'd issue a login request via wget, then a post request via wget Dec 10 21:47:42 i wouldnt Dec 10 21:47:50 you would :P ill get writing the app Dec 10 21:47:50 the script would Dec 10 21:48:04 whats your name Dec 10 21:48:11 ill make sure its on the front Dec 10 21:48:21 actually im at work, and you're distracting me :P Dec 10 21:48:41 haha Dec 10 21:48:42 its possible, get someone else do do the hack ;) Dec 10 21:48:49 distracting myself too Dec 10 21:48:54 i should be resting Dec 10 21:49:52 i wonder if thread by title would be possible Dec 10 21:49:55 include a list of subjects to draw Dec 10 21:50:03 and let people just choose the ones they wannt play in Dec 10 21:51:25 who was talking about the return key not working right on irssi? Dec 10 21:53:54 is there a keyboard shotcut to acess the program menu? Dec 10 21:55:16 ctrl-backspace Dec 10 21:55:20 Then tap the icon in the upper left. Dec 10 21:55:37 lol, not really a keyboard shortcut then =p Dec 10 21:56:15 mikhas, it's a bit like your shortcut on the metro. :P Dec 10 21:57:09 meh Dec 10 21:57:48 lbt, ping? Dec 10 21:58:09 mikhas, have you installed camkeyd? Dec 10 21:58:21 pong GeneralAntilles Dec 10 21:58:28 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=421680 Dec 10 21:58:32 lbt, Maemo 6 ToC. Dec 10 21:58:43 have I what? probably not! Dec 10 21:58:51 re Dec 10 21:59:01 mikhas, it's in Extras-devel or Extras-testing. Dec 10 21:59:13 It binds the autofocus step on the camera key to ctrl-backspace. Dec 10 21:59:16 jo lardman Dec 10 21:59:23 yup - it's what we whiteboarded Dec 10 21:59:23 hi woglinde Dec 10 21:59:52 ~lart building for i386 Dec 10 21:59:53 * infobot breaks out the Hoover and sucks up building for i386 Dec 10 22:00:01 lbt, just making sure you know the thread exists for when discussion breaks out. ;) Dec 10 22:00:18 heh - I only wrote that this pm :) Dec 10 22:00:33 hm, nice idea. maybe I could learn sth from the code Dec 10 22:01:29 http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=2f4_1260478528 > n900 at class Dec 10 22:02:46 lardman hehe Dec 10 22:02:57 ~lart broken cmake support in sdk+ Dec 10 22:02:57 * infobot urinates on broken cmake support in sdk+ Dec 10 22:03:18 i want a browser that doesnt crash! And how to get the pipe-symbol in console? Dec 10 22:03:32 where can i find the trunk for libmodest-dbus-client ? Dec 10 22:03:41 saahleh, via sym table Dec 10 22:04:52 sym table? Dec 10 22:04:58 GeneralAntilles: mutter tmo mutter maemo-developer ml Dec 10 22:05:01 symbol table Dec 10 22:05:06 saahleh : fn + sym Dec 10 22:05:09 the most top left key Dec 10 22:05:09 lbt, indeed. Dec 10 22:05:13 + fn, yes Dec 10 22:05:22 lbt: ml snr going down/ Dec 10 22:05:23 ? Dec 10 22:05:24 which is situated right below Dec 10 22:06:11 a, thanks | :) Dec 10 22:06:30 * lardman prays that he's not missed another bloody vfp command this time Dec 10 22:06:33 now that you found the symbol table: the 3rd row (from top) are compose keys Dec 10 22:06:50 lardman: what about adding LED support for barcodes Dec 10 22:06:51 I only mention it in case it is too obvious to you =) Dec 10 22:07:06 lardman: turning on the LED in torch mode would be handy for some scanning Dec 10 22:07:36 SpeedEvil: sure, do we know how? Dec 10 22:07:39 http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Flash_Torch Dec 10 22:07:46 lardman: it's a v4l2 ioctl Dec 10 22:08:02 a control of the main camera Dec 10 22:08:18 plus - it would double as a flashlight Dec 10 22:08:19 http://wiki.maemo.org/Developer_Guide_table_of_contents <= no "maemo6 by example" section? Dec 10 22:08:21 I'll look in the camerabin source, might already be available as a gst-photography fn Dec 10 22:08:30 but yeah, sounds reasonable Dec 10 22:08:42 thanks for the linky Dec 10 22:08:50 lardman: if it can do arbitrary v4l2 controls - like 'pan' and stuff - then it should be easy Dec 10 22:08:51 mikhas: seeing as Maemo6 doesn't exist yet.. Dec 10 22:08:53 is there a torch application already? Dec 10 22:08:57 it's a dev guide OK, but I always want to see some results quickly before I go reading sth in length. Dec 10 22:09:02 Arkenoi: not that runs the LEDs Dec 10 22:09:09 Arkenoi: one that brightens the screen onl Dec 10 22:09:10 y Dec 10 22:09:24 hehe Dec 10 22:09:32 is there any way to turn off noticiations for certain skype chats perhaps? Dec 10 22:09:37 lardman: yeah - I'd rather discuss this kind of thing on the ml -- when quim does this the "tmo is replacing the ml" becomes a bit self fulfilling - he's capable of *huge* influence on how/where people engage :) Dec 10 22:09:44 the led chip has 3 steps btw Dec 10 22:09:53 lbt: ack Dec 10 22:09:55 low light, torch, and flash Dec 10 22:09:58 cehteh: it has lots mroe than 3 Dec 10 22:10:11 cehteh: the low light is a seperate LED - if you mean the red one Dec 10 22:10:12 lbt: I have to say brainstorm has passed me by as a useful tool Dec 10 22:10:17 SpeedEvil: sure? i read the specs recently Dec 10 22:10:20 nope Dec 10 22:10:27 for the flashlight leds Dec 10 22:10:43 lardman: You're reducing the resolution of the camera image in mbarcode, right? Dec 10 22:10:51 cehteh: the flashlight LEDs are the flash LEDs - same ones. just at a lower current. Spent last night reading driver Dec 10 22:10:52 10mA Dec 10 22:10:57 cehteh: 50 Dec 10 22:11:12 derf: yeah Dec 10 22:11:26 Have you thought about reading the full resolution image and then just cropping it? Dec 10 22:11:30 10mA for a dim light, 50mA for the torch mode and 320 mA for flash Dec 10 22:11:47 I find myself pushing the device right up to whatever I want to scan, where it focuses badly. Dec 10 22:11:49 cehteh: As I read it it's variable - but, a bit annoying. Dec 10 22:11:53 derf: yes I was thinking about that, might make focusing work better Dec 10 22:12:02 lardman: Yes, exactly. Dec 10 22:12:14 full res image has its own problems - rate will be _lots_ lower Dec 10 22:12:16 derf: the reason I didn't was that the gst element to do cropping was missing Dec 10 22:12:16 where can I find a list of all existing keyboard shortcuts for N900? :) Dec 10 22:12:26 SpeedEvil: i read the controlers specs which has 2 bit for controling it off + 3 modes Dec 10 22:12:31 Camera is already agonizingly slow Dec 10 22:12:32 and I simultaneously worked out how to focus, so thought I'd give it a go Dec 10 22:12:46 derf: is an easy tweak to the code though Dec 10 22:12:50 cehteh: I've downloaded, but not read the ds, thought it was linear - guess I'm conflating it with the focus Dec 10 22:12:55 if the build box is using qemu, is it at least using virtio? http://www.linux-kvm.org/page/Virtio speeds up things significantly. Dec 10 22:13:03 cehteh: whihc is linear Dec 10 22:13:15 yeah likely Dec 10 22:13:24 jebba: qemu is not KVM Dec 10 22:14:13 well i wont experiment with the flash leds too much .. you can easily destroy them, even when they are protected, i dont trust the protection too much ... overcurrent/heat kills high power leds Dec 10 22:14:44 Sir_Lancelot: talk.maemo.org Dec 10 22:14:46 qemu-kvm ... Dec 10 22:15:02 cehteh: read the driver Dec 10 22:15:08 ah, unless it's just doing qemu as ARM Dec 10 22:15:15 cehteh: says 350ma*500ms max, or 50mA cont Dec 10 22:15:15 how close can you focus with n900 macro? i seem to get up to about 14 cm, then blur Dec 10 22:15:23 or maybe 18 Dec 10 22:15:27 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=36644 sums up my opinion Dec 10 22:15:29 but if it was just running qemu to virtualize things, well, i'd hope it was kvm not plain qemu ;) Dec 10 22:15:49 jebba: if it was just needing virtualization, it should use OpenVZ, not KVM nor qemu Dec 10 22:16:06 SpeedEvil: i didnt looked at the driver .. i looked at the specs of the contolling chip, maybe the driver doesnt export all Dec 10 22:16:20 cehteh: notes in driver platform file about maxes. Dec 10 22:16:25 and 500ms are a long time, be careful Dec 10 22:16:35 luke-jr_: well, it is running qemu from what I was told, but I dont have acces, so i dont know for sure. EIther way, it should use virtio... Dec 10 22:16:36 cehteh: it's enforced in the driver IIRC Dec 10 22:16:54 the chip as also some protection iirc Dec 10 22:16:54 cehteh: though you can still flash multiple times - but you can do that with the normal app too Dec 10 22:17:03 cehteh: only for overheat of the chip Dec 10 22:17:04 derf: there's a GDK fn to convert from RGB to greyscale isn't there iirc? Dec 10 22:17:04 yes Dec 10 22:17:11 jebba: virtio doesn't sound like something that would benefit an emulator Dec 10 22:17:14 cehteh: it has no seperate LED overheat detect Dec 10 22:17:30 jebba: and virtio would just be crazy for OpenVZ Dec 10 22:17:42 OpenVZ isn't a hypervisor, it's faster Dec 10 22:18:15 well overheat of the chip is linear to led overheat since the current goes through both :P (not exactly, thats why i warned not to stess it) Dec 10 22:18:25 cehteh: not really Dec 10 22:18:28 of course it would benefit an emulator. Faster disk & net. gah, why am i having this conversation done. Dec 10 22:18:46 i prolly has also a timer/watchdog .. cant remember Dec 10 22:19:06 hah t.m.o thread with 3,653 replies "Mobile Phones Direct N900 Customers" Dec 10 22:19:11 anyways .. this leds are easy to fry if you abuse them Dec 10 22:19:22 cehteh: consider it like your car. you have engine and brakes, the power goes through both if you press them both together - but the engine won't fry Dec 10 22:19:28 LEDs should be current-limited Dec 10 22:19:33 pupnik: they are. Dec 10 22:19:42 driven by current-limited circuits Dec 10 22:19:47 pupnik: to a rate at which it will exceed specs if they are on over .5s Dec 10 22:19:49 you can also get by with properly chosen resistors Dec 10 22:19:55 pupnik: as they are flash LEDs fundamentally Dec 10 22:19:59 ahh Dec 10 22:20:04 pupnik: (well - in flash mode) Dec 10 22:20:08 are they not heat limited ultimately? Dec 10 22:20:25 no Dec 10 22:20:27 http://www.analog.com/en/power-management/display-and-lighting/adp1653/products/product.html Dec 10 22:20:28 lardman: maybe, there can be other failure mechanisms. Dec 10 22:20:40 read the datasheet Dec 10 22:20:42 lardman: but heat is a primary one. Dec 10 22:20:57 certainly the ones I use have a heat tolerance and draw as much current as they need Dec 10 22:21:03 lardman: however - the driver says that flashlight mode is OK - it's 1/7th the power. Dec 10 22:21:09 keep below ~120C, etc Dec 10 22:21:12 odd topic Dec 10 22:21:42 lardman: diodes are a fundamentally constant voltage device. They take as much current as you give them. Dec 10 22:22:06 really? Dec 10 22:22:15 yeah Dec 10 22:22:15 so you have to current limit them? Dec 10 22:22:16 does the n900 have a sip client? Dec 10 22:22:22 lardman: yes. Dec 10 22:22:27 hmm, interesting Dec 10 22:22:29 you must control the current, not the voltage Dec 10 22:22:46 lardman: in all but the situations where you've read the datasheets extremely carefully, and done all the sums to ensure that it's safe. Dec 10 22:23:10 (or if you don't care if it dies in a few mins) Dec 10 22:23:23 the chip can do up to 820ms flashes ... Dec 10 22:23:32 mhm better dont try :) Dec 10 22:23:43 IIRC a limit at 500 in the driver Dec 10 22:23:48 finally.. modest is compiling.. Dec 10 22:24:00 but there is a sepearte torch mode that is quite bright enough Dec 10 22:24:10 even 500ms are a long time to build up heat on such small things Dec 10 22:24:11 what a pain in the nuts Dec 10 22:24:13 Especially for short range flash/constant flashlight Dec 10 22:24:33 anyone else, is there an e.g. GDK fn to turn an RGB pixbuf into a greyscale one? Dec 10 22:24:40 SpeedEvil: you read the datasheet now .. then you discover the 3rd dimmed mode Dec 10 22:24:54 cehteh: I don't recall it being implemented in the driver. Dec 10 22:25:02 cehteh: but I could have skimmed over it Dec 10 22:25:04 page 14 Dec 10 22:25:17 yeah maybe the driver can be hacked a bit :) Dec 10 22:26:59 too bad that it cant be pwm controlled Dec 10 22:27:45 you can't pwm with a rolling shutter camera, for obvious reasons Dec 10 22:28:15 a dark pic or two.. no one would notice :) Dec 10 22:28:21 * VDVsx installs 12 offscr's apps in his N900 and fells again like a iPhone user :) Dec 10 22:28:22 what is this LED discussion for? Dec 10 22:28:24 lardman: I am unaware of such a function. Dec 10 22:28:26 dark lines in the pics actually Dec 10 22:28:44 lardman, you can do it as part of the gstreamer Dec 10 22:28:45 pupnik: there are two flash LEDs in the n900. These can also be used for flashlights. Dec 10 22:28:49 but im not sure about a specific method Dec 10 22:28:53 there probably is one tho Dec 10 22:28:57 pupnik: Though at lower brightness Dec 10 22:29:02 VDVsx : whioch apps? Dec 10 22:29:27 Sir_Lancelot, games and weird stuff,lol Dec 10 22:29:29 SpeedEvil: the LCD at full brightness white screen makes better flashlite tho for sure Dec 10 22:29:33 lcuk: not in gst atm, reading from file Dec 10 22:29:42 cool! Dec 10 22:29:43 will just do it manually Dec 10 22:29:45 jebba: it's perhaps 1/50th of the brightness at best Dec 10 22:29:50 * lcuk nods Dec 10 22:29:54 lardman: you can iterate over the pixbuf data manually. It is a bit tedious, but possible. Dec 10 22:29:57 how's things lcuk ? Dec 10 22:30:01 SpeedEvil: the LCD? Dec 10 22:30:06 nomis: yep, just writing the code now Dec 10 22:30:10 jebba: yes Dec 10 22:30:11 thanks Dec 10 22:30:25 jebba, the LEDs are way brighter than the LCD backlight. :) Dec 10 22:30:31 huh. How can you just turn on the LEDs? Dec 10 22:30:33 jebba: part of that is as the light is not as focussed. Dec 10 22:30:39 Sir_Lancelot, current list: http://pastebin.ca/1710217 Dec 10 22:31:00 jebba: you open the camera file descriptor and send a ioctl(V4L2_TORCH_ON) Dec 10 22:31:01 ah ay Dec 10 22:31:04 or something ismilar Dec 10 22:31:07 n900 .. the most expensive torch to date :P Dec 10 22:31:25 SpeedEvil: any dbus majick for something like that? Dec 10 22:31:40 VDVsx : in 100000 light years from you Dec 10 22:31:51 it's all foregien language to me Dec 10 22:31:53 :D Dec 10 22:31:58 jebba: well, there may be a dbus thingy for it - there is no need though. mplayer could do it if it could control arbitrary v4l2 controls - but it can't Dec 10 22:32:02 lardman: ooh: gdk_pixbuf_saturate_and_pixelate() Dec 10 22:32:15 which is the repo list for all those apps? Dec 10 22:32:22 Does anyone know which accelerometor sensor chip is used on the N900 and is it interfaced through I2C with the OMAP? Dec 10 22:32:25 Sir_Lancelot, blame the guys that did the descriptions Dec 10 22:32:27 VDVsx, cool! they working then now? i was wondering why we werent getting ported s60 stuff Dec 10 22:32:29 Sir_Lancelot, ovi store Dec 10 22:32:37 jayabharath: it's the lis402 IIRC - and yes Dec 10 22:33:05 jayabharath: lis302 even Dec 10 22:33:14 jayabharath: why? Dec 10 22:33:16 nomis: couldn't work out if that would do quite what I wanted though Dec 10 22:33:43 nomis: and I still need to reduce the data to a single char per pixel, so may as well do the conversion myself I think Dec 10 22:33:44 lardman: I think it should do something resembling the right thing with saturation = 0 and pixelate = False. Dec 10 22:33:45 lardman, im tired! but i had a great time with the ux people last week Dec 10 22:33:48 for people curious about the flagship store Dec 10 22:33:52 lardman: ah, ok. Dec 10 22:33:58 the state remains unchanged Dec 10 22:34:18 jay: http://www.st.com/stonline/products/literature/ds/12726/lis302dl.htm Dec 10 22:34:23 Speedevil: thanks for the infor... I was looking for the sensor driver...on linux-omap tree do you if src patches are upstreamed ? Dec 10 22:34:28 nomis: yeah, having troubles with buffer sizes expected by decoder threads, etc., easier to just give them what they expect than change everything Dec 10 22:34:32 lcuk: cool :) Dec 10 22:34:38 jayabharath: dunno Dec 10 22:34:56 you wouldv found your level there simon, there were people form all areas Dec 10 22:34:58 was great Dec 10 22:35:02 SpeedEvil: No problem .. I will look around. Thanks much for the link to the datasheet Dec 10 22:35:14 lardman: as an offtopic question: have you ever seen RDS output on the N900? Dec 10 22:35:28 lcuk: had work commitments, plus wasn't feeling too hot Dec 10 22:35:38 jayabharath: see http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo5.0/free/k/kernel/kernel_2.6.28-20094102.3+0m5.diff.gz Dec 10 22:35:44 you oculd walk through a room and go from detailed technical discussion through design and niceties and meander past documentation through coffee and bacon and back to general stuff Dec 10 22:35:49 nomis: reception? No, not tried either though Dec 10 22:35:56 is Ovi store barrier to entry for developers much higher than Palm or Apple store? Dec 10 22:36:07 SpeedEvil: ok.. Dec 10 22:36:15 pupnik, yes. Dec 10 22:36:17 lcuk: mmmm, coffee + bacon, perfect! Dec 10 22:36:28 it's bigger than Apple's, dunno about Palm. Dec 10 22:37:45 lcuk: i was checking out your liq* programs today, they're rad thx :) Dec 10 22:37:58 lardman: yeah, reception. The chip apparently can handle it, there is some linux driver code for that, but I am unsure if this is actually on the device. Dec 10 22:38:17 at least /dev/radio1 does not spit out RDS raw data in the v4l format. Dec 10 22:38:18 \m/ -_- \m/ Dec 10 22:38:54 awesome ar Dec 10 22:38:54 t Dec 10 22:39:05 lcuk, I want liqSeismometer, so funny :P Dec 10 22:39:07 nomis, it spits out NOKIA! to the radio itself Dec 10 22:39:11 nomis: not tried yet, sorry Dec 10 22:39:24 SpeedEvil: V4L2_CID_INDICATOR_INTENSITY ... the dim mode is supported in the driver Dec 10 22:39:30 nomis: I'd certainly like to - both for radio station names and also traffic info ;) Dec 10 22:39:38 VDVsx, at the summit i was talking to mmmmm someone Dec 10 22:39:44 i forget his name Dec 10 22:39:49 tho i wrote the app with it in Dec 10 22:40:05 anyway i wrote a graphing thingy for the accelerometer Dec 10 22:40:16 just to see if it worked, its good fun :) Dec 10 22:40:24 * lcuk will remember hte name soon Dec 10 22:40:32 lcuk: oh, the transmitter? That is cool. Dec 10 22:40:33 18mG resolution = sucky seismometer Dec 10 22:40:56 will detect a kick in the teeth Dec 10 22:41:02 over the internet no less Dec 10 22:41:13 its good enough that if you have 3 devies on a desk Dec 10 22:41:19 and 5 people around Dec 10 22:41:19 SpeedEvil: plus you need to bury it to get a signal ;) Dec 10 22:41:22 you could detect where they were sat Dec 10 22:41:31 banding the table in front of em Dec 10 22:41:37 banging Dec 10 22:41:42 not from their heart-beats? Dec 10 22:41:44 ;) Dec 10 22:41:45 lcuk: yes - banging is a somewhat different case Dec 10 22:41:54 nahhh Dec 10 22:41:54 lcuk: as you're acting like a microphone sortof Dec 10 22:42:12 lcuk: the actual accelleration in that case can be quite high Dec 10 22:42:13 input mechanism lol Dec 10 22:42:37 someone said today in #maemo-ux if i double tap to zoom in Dec 10 22:42:38 the SDK doesn't have the run-standalone.sh included ? Dec 10 22:42:39 how do you zoom out Dec 10 22:42:47 it owuld be cool to tap on the back of the device ;) Dec 10 22:43:35 man oh man... the learning curve for maemo development is steep Dec 10 22:43:35 anyway,time for me to vanish,this code wont write itself Dec 10 22:43:45 :) indeed Scummer Dec 10 22:44:02 GAN900: short reply... Dec 10 22:44:05 Scummer: try Symbian one day ;) Dec 10 22:44:11 :) Dec 10 22:45:09 ok, school boy question, if I'm doing some manipulations on some chars, what type (or register) will be used to hold the intermediate values? Dec 10 22:45:26 as I need more than 8bit res for the intermediate data Dec 10 22:45:29 the maemo.org tells me to use run-standalone.sh to test out my app.. but it's not there :? Dec 10 22:45:33 In C, any arithmetic promotes things to int. Dec 10 22:45:34 int Dec 10 22:45:40 Scummer, install nokia-apps. Dec 10 22:45:42 cool, thanks chaps Dec 10 22:46:09 GA: thanks.. will try Dec 10 22:46:15 It's one of the reasons C will never have good vectorizing compilers. Dec 10 22:47:02 holy crap! dev env in scratchbox takes about 400mb Dec 10 22:47:03 yes, I can see it will be problematic Dec 10 22:47:29 lcuk: mine is at about 1.2 gb Dec 10 22:47:39 ali1234, i just did an apt upgrade tho Dec 10 22:47:43 its evil i tell you Dec 10 22:47:56 400 MB is chump change. Dec 10 22:47:58 are these operations promoted to int, or to native register size? Dec 10 22:47:59 on normal n900 i do 2 apt-get lines and its compilable! Dec 10 22:48:10 lcuk but tage ages Dec 10 22:48:10 just out of interest Dec 10 22:48:11 lardman: int _is_ the native register size. Dec 10 22:48:14 arm toochain is 250mb Dec 10 22:48:17 That's what "int" means. Dec 10 22:48:20 woglinde, no Dec 10 22:48:23 ok, so that's the reasoning Dec 10 22:48:24 i could be finished now Dec 10 22:48:30 the code is 4 dialogs Dec 10 22:48:32 its tiny Dec 10 22:48:35 well not on a 64bit chip running a 32bit os? Dec 10 22:48:37 linked with 1 library Dec 10 22:48:39 at least the ful CS toolchain is Dec 10 22:48:41 its not "heavy" in any sense Dec 10 22:48:51 but gives liq* apps easily Dec 10 22:48:54 lardman: Those have 32-bit registers. Dec 10 22:49:11 on windows amd64 int is 32 bit (lp model) Dec 10 22:49:13 ah yes, they are shortened or combined Dec 10 22:49:15 woglinde, its how programming used to be :) simple Dec 10 22:49:23 javispedro: No. Dec 10 22:49:29 win64 is just p model. Dec 10 22:49:32 but then theres this whole "packaging" debacle ontop Dec 10 22:49:33 long is also 32-bit. Dec 10 22:49:34 llp64 Dec 10 22:49:42 Because they are fucking insane. Dec 10 22:49:45 derf: touché. Dec 10 22:50:00 backwards compatibility kludges :) Dec 10 22:50:00 ahh finally my sim card is active. agps is awesome! Dec 10 22:50:04 l != p might be a bit weird tho Dec 10 22:50:16 jaska: Indeed, it breaks lots of software. Dec 10 22:50:23 char = short = int = 16bits on TMS320, so they aren't the only ones with insanity ;) Dec 10 22:50:37 lardman: C55x you mean. Dec 10 22:50:41 C64x is also TMS320. Dec 10 22:50:45 ah yes, sorry Dec 10 22:50:53 GeneralAntilles: I said GAN900 b4..... I replied to the docs thread... Dec 10 22:51:10 * timeless_mbp sighs Dec 10 22:51:15 lbt, I highlight on all possible formats on all clients. ;) Dec 10 22:51:17 so, sip is kinda buggy Dec 10 22:51:19 lardman: It's only insane if sizeof(int) is not 1 :) Dec 10 22:51:22 i called my parents via sip Dec 10 22:51:29 and instead of it showing that i was calling them Dec 10 22:51:38 it showed me the sip url to call them Dec 10 22:51:44 because i really need to see an incredibly long and useless url Dec 10 22:51:56 GeneralAntilles: I still like that your nic is CamelCase :) Dec 10 22:51:56 ShadowJK: so insanity rules on most platforms then? ;) Dec 10 22:52:15 lardman: no Dec 10 22:52:16 lbt, meh, how many services do you know that let you use spaces? Dec 10 22:52:37 timeless_mbp manages fine Dec 10 22:52:37 sizeof(char)==1 ok Dec 10 22:52:40 lbt, and how many more do you know that let you use underscores? Dec 10 22:52:44 timeless_mbp manages fine Dec 10 22:52:47 s/let/don't let/ Dec 10 22:52:48 GeneralAntilles meant: lbt, and how many more do you know that don't let you use underscores? Dec 10 22:52:50 timeless_mbp: does the n900 have a sip client? Dec 10 22:52:51 lbt: ? Dec 10 22:52:54 hellok, anyone have an idea why I can run a command that exists in /usr/bin as root on the n900? its intltool-update Dec 10 22:52:55 I use this nick EVERYWHERE. Dec 10 22:52:56 xorAxAx: yes Dec 10 22:53:01 :D timeless_mbp Dec 10 22:53:02 Besides, WTF does my nick have to do with the wiki? :P Dec 10 22:53:12 xorAxAx: it's integrated into the addressbook/phone Dec 10 22:53:14 though art a mere example timeless_mbp Dec 10 22:53:14 lbt, the only place I say no CamelCase is there. :) Dec 10 22:53:16 timeless_mbp: in the sdk i only see google talk in the accounts setup Dec 10 22:53:30 lardman: sizeof(char) is always 1, so where int is bigger than char, sizeof(int) should obviously be greater than 1 Dec 10 22:53:30 xorAxAx: oh Dec 10 22:53:32 * timeless_mbp shrugs Dec 10 22:53:33 GeneralAntilles, some ircd have nick length limits (or used too) :) Dec 10 22:53:37 sdk is just a demo Dec 10 22:53:41 * lbt can't be CamelCased Dec 10 22:53:51 great Dec 10 22:53:51 ShadowJK: yes Dec 10 22:53:53 * timeless_mbp goes to file bug Dec 10 22:53:56 it could have palindromic caps though.... Dec 10 22:54:00 kynky, indeed. I'm 15 characters now, some limit it there. Dec 10 22:54:17 ShadowJK: though sizeof(char) = 1 and it being 16bits is rather nasty Dec 10 22:54:31 hrm Dec 10 22:54:39 does *anyone* else here have a sip account? Dec 10 22:54:47 o/ timeless_mbp Dec 10 22:55:35 lardman: yeah but CHAR_BITS or something is 16, right Dec 10 22:55:36 GeneralAntilles: http://iq.appspot.com/q/6583/21 Dec 10 22:55:44 timeless_mbp: however my N900 won't even *try* and connect to wifi at the moment... Dec 10 22:55:54 .. Dec 10 22:55:55 lbt: youch Dec 10 22:56:15 windoze time... Dec 10 22:56:17 timeless_mbp: i have a SIP acct with ekiga. And before with a number of other providers (used with asterisk) Dec 10 22:56:37 ShadowJK: I guess so, the code I was porting didn't bother to check Dec 10 22:56:41 I,ve seen people complain the n900 sip client has not worked on networks where the n8x0 client works, with identical settings Dec 10 22:56:45 jebba: you have an n900, right? Dec 10 22:56:57 can you try calling an american 800 number for me? Dec 10 22:57:00 mine uses sipgate Dec 10 22:57:02 lardman: yes, people never write portable code ;) Dec 10 22:57:03 and asterisk Dec 10 22:57:26 ShadowJK: so true, or they think they have, but it's not Dec 10 22:57:32 timeless_mbp: yes Dec 10 22:57:37 C leaves too much as "implementation defined" for that to be practical. Dec 10 22:57:47 yeech.. another 50 bazillion packages to install Dec 10 22:58:04 timeless_mbp: ah, not for regular termination in PSTN. But I may have some old accts still going somewhere i can dig up. Dec 10 22:58:06 In reality you write code for some reasonable set of hardware, and figure anyone else can fix it if it ever really becomes an issue. Dec 10 22:58:13 Because most of the time it'd be wasted effort. Dec 10 22:58:23 oh, wait, just local asterisk... Dec 10 22:58:54 ~seen qwerty Dec 10 22:58:57 qwerty was last seen on IRC in channel #debian, 272d 9h 58m 17s ago, saying: 'i need a good webhosting please'. Dec 10 22:59:04 *g* Dec 10 22:59:30 can i use the musicplayer in foldermode Dec 10 22:59:36 hello Dec 10 22:59:44 not a fan of playlist files =) Dec 10 22:59:51 so where is qwerty? Dec 10 23:00:00 ~seen qwerty12 Dec 10 23:00:02 qwerty12 was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 7d 4h 36m 2s ago, saying: 'Khertan: "As of hildon 2.2, HildonDialog has been deprecated in favor of GtkDialog. "'. Dec 10 23:00:07 slightly better Dec 10 23:00:09 n900 that is Dec 10 23:00:09 Seems that Vultures Eye does not run after latest update :-( Dec 10 23:00:36 ~seen qwerty12_n900 Dec 10 23:00:37 hm where he is Dec 10 23:00:37 qwerty12_n900 was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 8d 7h 10m 29s ago, saying: 'w00t: If it makes you happy, I have a picture of my N800, N810, and "my" N900 on a desk. Urge to kill rising?'. Dec 10 23:00:44 bahh Dec 10 23:00:47 Arkenoi: can you run it from terminal? Dec 10 23:00:51 I loose Dec 10 23:00:56 ah, someone's killed him then Dec 10 23:01:08 LOL Dec 10 23:01:24 would be nice to see maps load a little quicker .. Dec 10 23:01:30 crashanddie: .....? ;) Dec 10 23:01:30 can't cd to /opt/vultures Dec 10 23:01:50 lardman: ? Dec 10 23:01:53 it does not exist, indeed Dec 10 23:02:06 crashanddie: just wondering if you'd killed qwerty? Dec 10 23:02:16 I actually have an alibi Dec 10 23:02:24 I'm in the US, and have been for two weeks Dec 10 23:02:26 you know, escaping the country and all Dec 10 23:02:29 hmm Dec 10 23:02:30 * VDVsx suspects that lcuk did it Dec 10 23:02:34 ;) Dec 10 23:02:52 lardman: and even though I know I'm good, killing someone a few days after his last appearance is pretty hard Dec 10 23:03:07 true Dec 10 23:03:16 a whole 2 weeks! you poor thing Dec 10 23:03:25 Still can't get any packages from Ovi. Dec 10 23:03:25 still have a week to go Dec 10 23:03:26 do you want to know what's been happening in the world? Dec 10 23:03:41 lardman: nha I'm good, I've got CNN Dec 10 23:03:42 :D Dec 10 23:03:45 lol Dec 10 23:03:49 hehe Dec 10 23:03:53 they do world news? Dec 10 23:03:58 GeneralAntilles, apt-get install is your friend Dec 10 23:03:59 what world? Dec 10 23:04:04 or does that just mean Alabama? Dec 10 23:04:10 just installed a bunch of apps from there Dec 10 23:04:14 lardman: I saw some guy in the Ukraine blew up his face with chewing gum Dec 10 23:04:19 lardman: seems like the same old world to me Dec 10 23:04:21 yeah, strange Dec 10 23:04:45 alabama is the capital of Europea, right? Dec 10 23:05:08 no that must be Texas, Paris is there Dec 10 23:05:13 alabama.. reminds me of My Cousin Vinny Dec 10 23:05:20 doh! Dec 10 23:05:30 great flick Dec 10 23:06:31 steve martin is talented. plays great banjo Dec 10 23:06:33 VDVsx, why can't h-a-m find them? Dec 10 23:06:34 Urgh, it's pulling qt from d.m.n.c Dec 10 23:06:34 That can't be good. Dec 10 23:06:34 demonic Dec 10 23:06:34 user/hidden Dec 10 23:06:34 Can we stab the Ovi idiots to death yet? Dec 10 23:06:34 Ugh Dec 10 23:06:34 errr help, any idea why my scratchbox is trying to download i386 versions of stuff whenim selected inarmel mode Dec 10 23:06:38 or how i can fix it Dec 10 23:06:49 GeneralAntilles: what is it now? Dec 10 23:07:05 never saw that lcuk Dec 10 23:07:07 lcuk: you sure your targets aren't just named something other than what they are? Dec 10 23:07:10 GeneralAntilles, yes please :P Dec 10 23:07:15 lcuk you are in i386 mode then Dec 10 23:07:27 how do i change it Dec 10 23:07:34 sb-menu Dec 10 23:07:35 supposing i had to rebuild a new target Dec 10 23:07:42 * Arkenoi tries to scan 1d barcode with mbarcode, no luck. is it really that hard so most barcode reader applications are actually limited to qr-codes? Dec 10 23:08:06 sshhhhh Arkenoi Dec 10 23:08:09 Arkenoi: sorry, is the barcode online or physical? Dec 10 23:08:12 Hrm, somebody want to figure out what h-a-m does with user/hidden ? Dec 10 23:08:13 GeneralAntilles, my list: http://pastebin.ca/1710217 Dec 10 23:08:47 lardman: I think you need to learn to fist pump Dec 10 23:08:51 lardman: and hit the club and all yo Dec 10 23:08:59 Arkenoi: basically derf's QR code works better than the 1D code and far better than the Datamatrix code Dec 10 23:09:08 crashanddie: lol Dec 10 23:09:19 VDVsx, I'm tempted to write a pissy email to -developers. Dec 10 23:09:32 GeneralAntilles: don't Dec 10 23:09:35 VDVsx, isn't it amazing that whenever Nokia puts together some shit behind closed doors like this they do it fucking wrong? Dec 10 23:10:02 GeneralAntilles: wrong? are you an IP lawyer now? Dec 10 23:10:08 pupnik, er? Dec 10 23:10:13 ovi Dec 10 23:10:15 I've not received any emails, what's up? Dec 10 23:10:16 pupnik: you missed Dec 10 23:10:16 select compiler: cs2007q3-glibc2.5-arm7 Dec 10 23:10:19 k Dec 10 23:10:20 GeneralAntilles, true, they don't listen the experts <- us ;) Dec 10 23:10:26 lardman: working 6AM - 2AM Dec 10 23:10:29 What the hell does improper repository setups and broken control files have to do with IP? :) Dec 10 23:10:43 crashanddie: ouch Dec 10 23:10:44 i missed what your prob was, sry Dec 10 23:10:50 lcuk: yep and the correct rootfs too Dec 10 23:11:03 do i need a transparency method ahh where do i get that Dec 10 23:11:16 lcuk: makeTransparent() Dec 10 23:11:20 * GeneralAntilles bangs head on desk. Dec 10 23:11:23 should have been installed with the rest of the debs Dec 10 23:11:29 http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/source/hildon-application-manager/debian/changelog Dec 10 23:11:40 Hey, new section, who would've thunk'it? Dec 10 23:11:49 lardman i broke it today Dec 10 23:11:54 Also: turns out I don't care. Dec 10 23:11:54 and it shouldv rebuilt all this for me Dec 10 23:12:11 i got the x86 working ! Dec 10 23:12:40 GeneralAntilles, try xploder, its a funny game Dec 10 23:12:56 I wonder how user/hidden handles updates. Dec 10 23:13:09 Christ, why can't we just use h-a-m for browsing the Ovi shit, again? <_< Dec 10 23:13:42 GeneralAntilles, patience please, it's not released yet it seems Dec 10 23:13:52 tech preview, hihi Dec 10 23:13:53 nicer conky on n900 shot: http://homepage.mac.com/darren.long/filechute/screenshot04.png Dec 10 23:14:33 clearly we need a conky widget Dec 10 23:14:35 borderless Dec 10 23:14:38 VDVsx, yeah, my optimism isn't exactly overflowing. ;) Dec 10 23:14:40 sticky, non-movable Dec 10 23:14:45 why ghz and mhz? Dec 10 23:15:04 forget about non-movable Dec 10 23:15:05 its the default conf with some font tweaks Dec 10 23:16:02 Shapeshifter, fnordianslip this is something zach did for his google summer of code on his n810 http://www.flickr.com/photos/38672658@N07/ Dec 10 23:16:16 works well inside liqbase on anything Dec 10 23:16:21 based on conky code Dec 10 23:16:25 i believe Dec 10 23:16:32 cool Dec 10 23:16:42 nice Dec 10 23:17:06 * lcuk nods Dec 10 23:17:17 its intended for multiple machine network monitoring Dec 10 23:17:29 and you can zoom into different machines and features Dec 10 23:18:16 the n900 slider feels so great when it schlocks into position :) Dec 10 23:18:30 oh cock, not working Dec 10 23:18:39 ~curse changing code Dec 10 23:18:41 May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, changing code ! Dec 10 23:18:51 lol Dec 10 23:18:58 cock? Dec 10 23:19:04 hey hey Dec 10 23:19:13 rootstrap you say Dec 10 23:19:16 Well, we've got a solution for non-user packages that need to be updated through h-a-m!!! :rolleyes: Dec 10 23:19:19 Gadgetoid_iMac: just a saying Dec 10 23:19:20 user/hidden to the rescue. . . . Dec 10 23:19:59 lardman: and you had me all excited Dec 10 23:20:08 I'm going to be playing with wiicontrol / snes emu tonight I suppose...the n900 is wonderful :) Dec 10 23:20:50 lol Dec 10 23:21:00 sorry Dec 10 23:21:20 jadams: my son was all smiles yesterday when i showed him snes on the TV with the wiimote :) Dec 10 23:21:59 I'm not really sure how to go about it, but I haven't really spent any time trying yet either Dec 10 23:22:10 it was rather easy Dec 10 23:22:41 the only problem i encountered was the mappings didn't switch.. so i manually edited teh wiicontrol.py Dec 10 23:22:52 yeah i am going to take tv cable to some relatives Dec 10 23:23:03 generate some sales Dec 10 23:23:15 of non availalbe n900's ? :) Dec 10 23:23:26 I'm bored Dec 10 23:23:38 I wonder if I'll see my n900 before 2010 Dec 10 23:23:41 or boring Dec 10 23:24:06 very likely both Dec 10 23:24:11 are there production issues, or is demand so high? Dec 10 23:24:29 fiji has the n900. Dec 10 23:24:43 no.. they are all on vacation already.. Dec 10 23:24:59 robotron clone Dec 10 23:25:05 do-able Dec 10 23:25:14 in europe half of the year you have vacation :) Dec 10 23:25:18 i ordered mine on wednesday, the status was changed to "shipped" yesterday (thu) :D Dec 10 23:25:25 Scummer: It's a hard life Dec 10 23:25:41 lard: i know.. i lived it Dec 10 23:25:44 the n900 is one bitch machine when it comes to sucking the life out of the li-on :\ Dec 10 23:25:53 pupnik, they underestimated demand by a large margin is my bet. Dec 10 23:25:59 cool Dec 10 23:26:01 lard: i do miss it tho... 7 weeks vac compared to two in the US.. hurts Dec 10 23:26:03 Zeddy, broken WiFi? Dec 10 23:26:05 Zeddy, meh, it beats the G1 into the ground Dec 10 23:26:09 Scummer: just that the US is very bad for holidays Dec 10 23:26:12 it does? Dec 10 23:26:15 Zeddy, 3G all day? Dec 10 23:26:21 Scummer: 7 weeks!? Dec 10 23:26:22 yeah Dec 10 23:26:24 ofcourse Dec 10 23:26:25 GeneralAntilles: I thought that as well, but I kinda started doubting that theory now that there are n900 ads everywhere Dec 10 23:26:28 i depend on the 3g :P Dec 10 23:26:29 Scummer: what did you do? Dec 10 23:26:29 two weeks is not enough downtime Dec 10 23:26:35 otherwise i wouldn't have bought the phone Dec 10 23:26:37 Zeddy, I used 3g all day and it survives a day. I didn't use 3g EVER on the G1, because it was so much less powerful/awesome, and it lasted till 5 PM Dec 10 23:26:41 Shapeshifter, the ads don't change it. Dec 10 23:26:43 lard: yep.. 6 weeks standard + 1 week something i can't remember Dec 10 23:26:48 I doubt they'd do this kind of advertising for such a slick-looking product and then not expect demand Dec 10 23:26:52 that's a lot of holiday Dec 10 23:26:54 I think I get something like 5 weeks vacation + 11 holidays. Dec 10 23:26:54 lard: i used to be an electrician in germany Dec 10 23:26:54 Shapeshifter, I really don't think they realized quite how much interest there is in a device like this. Dec 10 23:27:00 In the US. Dec 10 23:27:02 vacation.. not holiday Dec 10 23:27:07 Shapeshifter, well, Nokia is a big company. Dec 10 23:27:08 I never actually take that much. Dec 10 23:27:08 the holidays are extra Dec 10 23:27:19 yep Dec 10 23:27:21 GeneralAntilles: "like this" - I think most people don't see it as a product "like this", they see it as a slick phone and want to buy it. Dec 10 23:27:21 vacation doesn't mean anything Dec 10 23:27:37 Shapeshifter, whatever they see it as, Nokia didn't estimate the demand well. Dec 10 23:27:40 Thus the shortages. :) Dec 10 23:27:42 i think shapeshifter id right Dec 10 23:27:43 vacation means something when the company wants you to take them instead of paying you out Dec 10 23:27:45 well that is lots of holiday, I get something like 27 days + public holidays Dec 10 23:28:03 so in '93 i was about 6 weeks in the US visiting my back then girlfriend :) Dec 10 23:28:08 that is a sane amt Dec 10 23:28:18 ah.. the good ol' times Dec 10 23:28:29 move to Switzerland, they have sooo many public holidays ;) Dec 10 23:28:41 lardman: we have? Dec 10 23:28:46 i'm actually landing in zuerich next thursday :) Dec 10 23:28:51 afair yes ;) Dec 10 23:29:02 i don't think it's as many Dec 10 23:29:05 avarage Dec 10 23:29:28 chrismas, new year, some christian holiday before easter, easter, and 1. of august. Dec 10 23:29:47 or after easter Dec 10 23:29:56 something with someone rising somewhere Dec 10 23:30:24 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_holidays_in_Switzerland Dec 10 23:30:33 seemed to me there were lots Dec 10 23:30:36 not a bad thing though Dec 10 23:30:49 well yeah, but we don't get the day off on most of these Dec 10 23:30:54 javispedro: still awake? Dec 10 23:30:58 pupnik: yep Dec 10 23:31:09 oh, I used to Dec 10 23:31:11 damn Dec 10 23:31:14 set everything to arm Dec 10 23:31:15 think you can bypass clutter somehow? Dec 10 23:31:17 was long time ago though Dec 10 23:31:21 installed rootstraps and everything Dec 10 23:31:28 lardman: mhhh Dec 10 23:31:42 60 fps does sound yummy Dec 10 23:31:44 pupnik: probably, there's an official method, I still need to try Dec 10 23:31:44 lardman: where did you work / go to the pub? Dec 10 23:31:51 i can't sleep Dec 10 23:31:53 good evening Dec 10 23:32:02 pupnik: you can try it already by killing the -desktop Dec 10 23:32:02 whaa? what is a keyword for me Dec 10 23:32:04 I lived in Baden Dec 10 23:32:06 yes Dec 10 23:32:07 aSIMULAter, clearly you've had too much sugar. :P Dec 10 23:32:11 used to go out to Zuerich Dec 10 23:32:13 yeah m&ms Dec 10 23:32:19 lardman: I see. Dec 10 23:32:24 rats.. now what.. do I need to start an Xserver as well to show the app ? Dec 10 23:33:39 Does Optima run maemo? Dec 10 23:34:05 pupnik: _HILDON_WM_ACTION_NO_TRANSITIONS Dec 10 23:34:10 wowwwww Dec 10 23:34:34 javispedro: ok, blowjobs for *someone* at Nokia Dec 10 23:35:06 ok, so spot the error: Dec 10 23:35:08 for(i=0;i greybuf[i] = ((66 * rgbbuf[i*3] + 129 * rgbbuf[i*3 + 1] + 25 * rgbbuf[i*3 + 2]) + 128)>>8 + 16; Dec 10 23:35:08 } Dec 10 23:35:16 rimjobs not blowjobs Dec 10 23:35:21 ok i shut up now Dec 10 23:35:28 hmm Dec 10 23:35:43 random outburst from aSIMULAter Dec 10 23:35:45 hint lardman? Dec 10 23:35:53 lardman: /** TODO Documentation required here */ Dec 10 23:35:53 aSIMULAter, a RIM job would be making Blackberries, no? Dec 10 23:35:56 pupnik: code crashes, somewhere in there Dec 10 23:35:58 oh if only ppl understood my darkbelly of the internets humour :P Dec 10 23:36:16 crashanddie: convert from RGB pixbuf to grayscale char* array Dec 10 23:36:36 lardman: rgbbuf length is less than i*3 + 2? Dec 10 23:36:47 aka len*3 Dec 10 23:36:53 length should be len*3 Dec 10 23:37:11 i never knew our eyes weighted green so high Dec 10 23:37:18 len = gdk_pixbuf_get_width(buf) * gdk_pixbuf_get_height(buf); Dec 10 23:37:32 rgbbuf = gdk_pixbuf_get_pixels(buf); fwiw Dec 10 23:37:42 well there's your problem Dec 10 23:37:47 lots of green in the plants.. guess recognizing different leaves etc was important back in the jungle etc Dec 10 23:38:05 ? Dec 10 23:38:16 dunno, just sounded right Dec 10 23:38:22 :p Dec 10 23:38:31 it's my yearly "Well there's your problem" day Dec 10 23:38:36 wow... the core dump galore is amazing when trying to start the UI-framework Dec 10 23:38:36 been saying it all day Dec 10 23:38:49 back Dec 10 23:38:54 hey Dec 10 23:39:01 lardman? pixbuf format not rgb24? Dec 10 23:39:03 lardman, no index out of bounds? Dec 10 23:39:12 i shup Dec 10 23:39:13 thanks for your and derf's help earlier, fixed that problem Dec 10 23:39:18 pupnik: C code, out of bounds doesn't exist Dec 10 23:39:39 no bounds, omnipotent :) Dec 10 23:39:40 javispedro: I'll check, but it should be Dec 10 23:39:54 pupnik: even then it should be ok as it's only reading Dec 10 23:40:23 well, reading can crash sometimes, but probably not there Dec 10 23:40:47 lardman: comment out the line, just create three separate lines, and access rgbuff[i*3], rgbuff[i*3 + 1] and rgbuff [i*3+2] separately and see where it crashes Dec 10 23:41:01 bleh Dec 10 23:41:16 lardman: what's the length of greybuf? Dec 10 23:41:24 crashanddie: yeah, was just hoping I'd missed something obvious Dec 10 23:41:37 greybuf = (char *)malloc(sizeof(char)*len); Dec 10 23:41:52 err, wut? Dec 10 23:41:54 oh Dec 10 23:41:57 and the data is unsigned for >>8? Dec 10 23:42:08 ah Dec 10 23:43:07 ay, our eyes *are* more sensitive around green Dec 10 23:43:09 does it crash when i is approx. len/2 Dec 10 23:43:19 no idea Dec 10 23:43:33 though I can add a fprintf in there to check Dec 10 23:43:47 lardman: http://developer.gimp.org/api/2.0/gdk-pixbuf/gdk-pixbuf-gdk-pixbuf.html#image-data Dec 10 23:44:19 hmm, packed Dec 10 23:44:29 and padded Dec 10 23:44:43 nevertheless, it shouldn't make the code crash, just the image wrong Dec 10 23:45:18 pupnik: this is not JAVA Dec 10 23:45:21 Assuming that n_channels really is at least 3. Dec 10 23:45:26 woops -- scroll up fail Dec 10 23:45:28 And that rowstride is positive. Dec 10 23:45:34 pupnik: ignore previous line Dec 10 23:45:45 rowstride must be posisitve Dec 10 23:45:51 or even positive Dec 10 23:46:07 channels = 3, bpp = 8 Dec 10 23:46:12 lardman -- the only man on earth who stutteteteteterts with a keyboard Dec 10 23:46:19 it could make the code crash Dec 10 23:46:21 iniindeeed Dec 10 23:47:25 s/bpp/bits per sample (aka colour channel) Dec 10 23:48:05 javispedro: even if the data is rubbish, it will be coerced into the char and that will be it Dec 10 23:48:56 lardman: nah, if it's 8 bits per color channel I am shutting up :) Dec 10 23:49:21 though I think RGB24 is uncommon but hey Dec 10 23:49:37 3.5 bits Dec 10 23:49:41 seems to be how gdk likes it Dec 10 23:49:49 the docs say it likes RGB32 Dec 10 23:50:03 (aka 4 channels, 32 bits per pixel) Dec 10 23:50:12 no alpha here though Dec 10 23:51:00 hmm, I think the problem might be with freeing my buffer actually Dec 10 23:51:12 so you didn't know where it crashed? :P Dec 10 23:51:29 I knew it crashed in that loop or the line after Dec 10 23:51:33 ;p Dec 10 23:52:02 debugging applications on Maemo is a pita as you can't start them from the command line Dec 10 23:52:16 my apologies Dec 10 23:52:30 you mostly can I think Dec 10 23:52:34 which one is this? Dec 10 23:52:38 mbarcode Dec 10 23:52:42 uses dbus Dec 10 23:52:57 so gets killed if you start from the command line Dec 10 23:53:12 I think that's the reason anyway Dec 10 23:53:33 sounds weird. I've debugged the entire hildon-desktop on the device Dec 10 23:53:48 are you starting it as root or user? Dec 10 23:54:08 osso_initialize() fails for me if I don't start from the icon Dec 10 23:54:12 user Dec 10 23:54:30 hmm Dec 10 23:54:32 i was juat playing some mame from command line on n900 Dec 10 23:55:01 words. so easily misunderstood Dec 10 23:55:13 ahh Dec 11 00:08:12 lardman my app doesn't get killed if I start it from command line... Dec 11 00:09:09 it gets killed if I start it from the icon and I don't initialize it with the proper service name Dec 11 00:10:20 hmm Dec 11 00:10:40 ok, I must have been starting as root I guess Dec 11 00:10:52 ah, would have saved lots of effort if I'd realised that Dec 11 00:10:54 oh well Dec 11 00:11:04 i have officially given up with scratchbox armel for the night \@/ Dec 11 00:11:11 the bastard that it is wont bloody work Dec 11 00:13:00 what's wrong? Dec 11 00:14:39 well going to sleep.. night people Dec 11 00:14:50 scratchbox armel is trying to download field sfor i86 Dec 11 00:14:55 gnite Anidel Dec 11 00:14:58 cool :) Dec 11 00:15:01 nite Dec 11 00:15:14 night Anidel Dec 11 00:16:10 something is wrong with browser scroll events. you cannot reliably in applications like google maps, google wave etc Dec 11 00:18:20 It's called javascript. :) Dec 11 00:19:57 Arkenoi, bright up the pointer button on the left. Dec 11 00:24:24 Hi Dec 11 00:27:15 yello Dec 11 00:29:15 hmm Dec 11 00:29:18 question Dec 11 00:29:25 how do I get real _ <-underscores in xterm Dec 11 00:29:31 I get some kind of utf8 underscore rightnow Dec 11 00:29:50 ... Dec 11 00:29:54 that doesn't even make sense Dec 11 00:30:05 underscore is the same in utf8 and ascii Dec 11 00:30:09 yes Dec 11 00:30:09 and utf8 is more real than ascii Dec 11 00:30:14 but the button that makes an underscore Dec 11 00:30:18 doesn't make one Dec 11 00:30:27 it's some other character that looks like an underscore Dec 11 00:30:27 it makes with the special button? Dec 11 00:30:32 xterm doesn't have buttons... Dec 11 00:30:37 hrr Dec 11 00:30:57 luke-jr_: well we hope he ment keyboard Dec 11 00:31:01 that would be fn+g on my swedish keyboard Dec 11 00:31:06 yes Dec 11 00:31:33 "I can't help you solve your problem, but I can help you correct your description of it!" Dec 11 00:31:37 <.< Dec 11 00:31:46 it makes something that looks like an underscore, but doesn't behave like one >_> Dec 11 00:32:02 Dr_Cain: that i doubt :) Dec 11 00:32:11 well ok Dec 11 00:32:20 I tried logging in to my shell via ssh Dec 11 00:32:26 yes Dec 11 00:32:27 eg dr_cain@hostname Dec 11 00:32:52 I got.. "dr\a\a_cain" Dec 11 00:33:25 * Dr_Cain tries again Dec 11 00:34:07 wtf Dec 11 00:34:09 works now Dec 11 00:34:15 that's not underscore problem Dec 11 00:34:16 works fine here Dec 11 00:34:17 ignore everything I said X) Dec 11 00:34:20 that's backspace problem Dec 11 00:34:23 ahaaa Dec 11 00:34:25 I see Dec 11 00:34:38 anyone in here on t-mo that actually gets their 7.2 HSDPA service on the n900? Dec 11 00:34:40 yaay Dec 11 00:35:00 i'm up near white plains, ny, and sometimes i get a "3.5G" signal but not for long enough to do anyhing with it Dec 11 00:35:22 getting 3.5G @Finland atleast Dec 11 00:35:24 works OK Dec 11 00:35:35 ifreq: what kind of speeds you experience on that? Dec 11 00:36:08 i can test next time im on the area of 3.5G Dec 11 00:36:11 i'm just wondering. t-mobile's 3G here in the NY (USA) area seems about 1/3 the speed of AT&T's 3G speed Dec 11 00:36:15 ah, ok Dec 11 00:36:19 now im on 3G area (@home) Dec 11 00:36:31 oh, what kind of 3G speed do you get? Dec 11 00:36:35 sec Dec 11 00:36:42 speedtest.net should be sufficient to tell it Dec 11 00:37:34 so out of curiosity Dec 11 00:38:06 does anyone know what the current state of ofono is w/r/t the n900? Dec 11 00:38:13 ifreq: yeah, that would probably work. i've been using speedtest, but i'm not sure it's doing a fair test for my connection, because it keeps thinking i'm 900 miles away Dec 11 00:38:42 i wonder if that's where t-mo's headquarters are, because that would be very odd if i was actually having my traffic routed all the way to 900 miles away before going elsewhere Dec 11 00:38:42 Vratha: hehe Dec 11 00:38:45 that would certainly slow me down Dec 11 00:39:18 im doing to test to the recommend server near me., it gives me 2.29Mbps down and 0.60Mbps up Dec 11 00:39:29 however, speedtest fairly tests my cable and shows it as about 100 Mbps Dec 11 00:39:29 with the 3G connection here Dec 11 00:39:35 wow, nice Dec 11 00:39:54 i only get 650 Kbps - 1.1 Mbps Dec 11 00:39:59 and it's usually around 750 Kbps Dec 11 00:40:06 yeh must be operator issue Dec 11 00:40:12 AT&T consistently gave me over 3 Mbps Dec 11 00:40:21 or how near/far from the 3G+ networks you are Dec 11 00:40:22 heh Dec 11 00:40:28 yeah Dec 11 00:40:42 i'm trying to find other speed tests on the itnernet to see if i can get something that doesn't think i'm so far away Dec 11 00:41:19 anyone configured activesync/owa with n900, is it even possible? Dec 11 00:41:36 saw the Exchange sync tool but it requires a bit diff aproach Dec 11 00:41:44 i haven't, but i thought i read that other people have to get it working with google sync'ing Dec 11 00:42:01 Vratha: well on speedtest you can pick some link more near to you Dec 11 00:42:02 oki Dec 11 00:42:28 ifreq: yeah, i do, but the speeds aren't great. it's definitely possible that i'm just getting shitty speeds; i just want to try someone other than them Dec 11 00:42:31 just to see Dec 11 00:42:46 night all, thanks for the help Dec 11 00:43:54 can i add shortcuts to cuso Dec 11 00:44:13 custom commands to the hildon-desktop? Dec 11 00:44:29 I can't seem to install wiicontrol Dec 11 00:44:39 I found a package but it wants python2.5-runtime, which doesn't exist Dec 11 00:48:01 nice (speedtest.net) 1.4M down, 0.4 up. Dec 11 00:48:04 uk Dec 11 00:48:09 tmobile Dec 11 00:48:41 is there a mirror the the n900 rom anywhere? my download from http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N900.php is only going till 4Mb and then slowing to zero.... Dec 11 00:49:40 hmm, that isn't too good, SpeedEvil Dec 11 00:50:16 SpeedEvil, holy shit, I remember you from #openmoko :) Dec 11 00:51:41 man... my 3G connection is falling apart here. i'm testing my internet speeds via tethering, and it decided to throw me down onto edge Dec 11 00:52:26 ;/ Dec 11 00:52:41 oh yeah! now my connection has completely decided to destroy itself. the phone said "Cellular Data Not Available" Dec 11 00:52:45 yay! Dec 11 00:52:48 oh wait, edge is back Dec 11 00:52:51 oh! 3g is back now Dec 11 00:52:59 hahaha, this is ridiculous Dec 11 00:55:36 hmm Dec 11 00:55:40 * SpeedEvil finds another issue. Dec 11 00:56:25 3g data is active, and you've forced 3g mode - the 3g/2g slector in settings is now inactive, and you have to deactivate data connection manually to switch. Dec 11 00:59:52 * timeless_mbp frowns Dec 11 00:59:56 ok... Dec 11 01:00:06 so why can't i get ekiga to work w/ my n900? Dec 11 01:00:15 it works w/ a bunch of voip apps on my mac :( Dec 11 01:00:54 timeless_mbp: because ekiga is using some non-standard defaults for VoIP Dec 11 01:01:09 timeless_mbp: go through your SIP configuration and make sure everything is in check Dec 11 01:02:15 do you use ekiga? Dec 11 01:05:13 garr, I have wiicontrol installed but it crashes when I try to open it. I tried to pair the wiimote but it's not showing up in my bluetooth devices Dec 11 01:11:26 hmm, it's so weird. t-mobile has decided to set my 3G's proxy to somewhere about 900 miles away Dec 11 01:11:31 i should call them and talk to them about that Dec 11 01:12:21 does it matter? Dec 11 01:12:21 and why do you care? Dec 11 01:12:53 because i think it's why my connection speeds are so low Dec 11 01:13:09 * timeless_mbp grumbles Dec 11 01:13:19 AT&T uses a much closer proxy, and i get near-theoretical speed limits on their network Dec 11 01:13:30 i get 1/3 (often less) speeds with t-mobile Dec 11 01:21:16 More localisation work needed - http://www.theonion.com/content/news/alphabet_updated_with_15_exciting Dec 11 02:09:22 hmm.. now what.. CPU transparency devkit ? Dec 11 02:13:43 timeless_mbp: you cant get it to connect at all, or you can't get it to echo check ok? also be sure to quit it on your mac when you run it on your n900. Dec 11 02:13:50 i think it'll interfere Dec 11 02:27:40 timeless_mbp: here's my SIP configuration in snapshots: http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Jebba#SIP_Configuration Dec 11 02:36:37 jebba: ah, sweet, you visit this channel :) Dec 11 02:36:46 hmmm Dec 11 02:36:47 jebba: you have any scripts for using dbus to send sms messages? Dec 11 02:36:53 N900 tomorrow Dec 11 02:36:59 nice Dec 11 02:37:26 i hope i get it tomorrow too Dec 11 02:37:27 what. the. fuck? http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=422014&postcount=4 Dec 11 02:37:30 been waiting far too long Dec 11 02:37:54 for far too long** Dec 11 02:38:23 :) Dec 11 02:41:18 wow Dec 11 02:42:34 crashanddie, it's never productive snooping to their level. ;) Dec 11 02:43:45 Vratha: i'll i pretty much have for now is up there. An sms one would be great tho :) Dec 11 02:43:54 ok.. i give up for now... i cannot get the damn scratchbox to work if my life depended on it Dec 11 02:44:31 haha, yeah, it would be wonderful Dec 11 02:45:26 it's very likely possible--i'd be more surprised if it wasnt Dec 11 02:45:30 jebba: you just seemed to be the expert with nokia's dbus interfaces which is why i asked Dec 11 02:46:10 man, the hardest thing in the world is figuring out keymaps tho haha Dec 11 02:46:27 Vratha: i just pillaged those from talk.maemo.org, here, and there and... Dec 11 02:46:48 jebba: keymaps? you mean the hooks into their interfaces? Dec 11 02:52:32 totally different thing. Doing qemu/kvm on a remote machine with vnc. Trying to find a keymap where I have both - and / is hard haha. (qemu doesn't do la-latin1 which is what my keyboard is and i'm not quite sure of how it's all pieced together in debian). This is for my new build scratchbox. Dec 11 02:58:00 conkey is looking pretty nice. need to figure out how to widgetise it though. http://homepage.mac.com/darren.long/filechute/screenshot07.png **** ENDING LOGGING AT Fri Dec 11 02:59:56 2009