**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sun Dec 13 02:59:57 2009 Dec 13 03:01:59 dmj7261: yeah, around 18-20% when music is playing Dec 13 03:02:51 try with headphones Dec 13 03:03:15 seriously, try it Dec 13 03:03:22 * microlith tries Dec 13 03:04:50 ~half Dec 13 03:05:35 mafw-dbus-wrapper is using more (11-14%) Dec 13 03:05:53 is pulse running a loudness filter when set to speakers? Dec 13 03:10:18 oh, hello again Dec 13 03:14:12 sup fellas Dec 13 03:14:18 nm Dec 13 03:15:27 microlith: thats what I've heard yes Dec 13 03:17:45 Lo, can I install smbfs on my N900? or a better way of accessing my samba share for music/video ?# Dec 13 03:18:21 Maybe add the debian armel repo? grab that and nano? what debian distro is it most closest to? etch? Dec 13 03:18:23 i would recommend a more common protocol vs another fs/service on your phone sucking battery life Dec 13 03:19:00 nano is in sdk tools repo anyway Dec 13 03:19:21 more common than SMB/CIFS? lol Dec 13 03:19:31 that which is used by practically every OS Dec 13 03:20:21 if umounted when not using it, it'd probably not suck any extra battery at all.. and on wlan it'd probably not use that much sitting idle Dec 13 03:20:49 I think he meant since the device is already runing a UPNP media server Dec 13 03:20:53 ShadowJK - is smbfs in the sdk repo - and what is the deb line for it? Dec 13 03:21:00 if your usage would fit in with that ,you could get better battery life Dec 13 03:21:03 than running a separate extra service Dec 13 03:21:04 not as far as I know Dec 13 03:21:13 you'd probably have to find the kernel sources and compile your own cifs.ko ? Dec 13 03:21:28 woah woah woah, I don't want to run a filesharing sytem on the n900 ... just connect to a share Dec 13 03:22:06 it does that whole upnp dance apparently. can play stuff from that Dec 13 03:22:20 upnp dance? Dec 13 03:22:24 it will act as a UPNP client to? Dec 13 03:22:32 yes Dec 13 03:22:47 atleast I've seen people say it "connected" to "wmp" "fine" Dec 13 03:22:49 cool so it will play stuff from xbox's ps3's and other media centers supporting upnp is the 'upnp dance' Dec 13 03:22:50 whatever that means Dec 13 03:23:10 well sod that I just wanna mount a samba share Dec 13 03:23:26 I havent seen any samba tools for it yet Lanta Dec 13 03:23:35 for either end, server or client Dec 13 03:23:39 maemo as a whole or n900 ? Dec 13 03:24:02 n900, I think the older IT's did have samba solutions, but not certain I've never owned one myself before the n900 Dec 13 03:24:28 you know I'm amazed at how few packages exist in the repo's Dec 13 03:24:30 I don't think it's technically infeasable, just not yet done Dec 13 03:24:43 it's a very fresh device still Dec 13 03:24:50 I was expecting most of debian armel to be in there Dec 13 03:24:58 Maemo uses gvfs, but cifs/smb support was removed from the upstream gvfs, and thus maemo5 with hte new gvfs doesn't have builtin capability to access cifs/smb shares Dec 13 03:25:02 with some overrides from a maemo repo Dec 13 03:25:12 unfortunately, due to the way the filesystem is laid out, you can't get very far installing unmodified debian armel packages Dec 13 03:25:31 Lanta: I recommend a chroot ;) to get all the debian goodness you crave, that's what I've been doing Dec 13 03:25:48 or another distro perhaps, one less nokia-ified Dec 13 03:26:16 Mer runs ontop of ubuntu repos I think :) Dec 13 03:26:19 yeah you could run any distro you like in a chroot of course, debian is the easiest though, given that they already have armel builds Dec 13 03:26:45 There's alot of stuff in the SDK repos, but they're not meant for use on device and you can break things pretty easily :) Dec 13 03:26:56 can debian / mer be installed directly on the n900 now? i.e. replace maemo entirely? Dec 13 03:26:56 Mer is Ubuntu 9.04 for arm Dec 13 03:27:36 Lanta, there's no telephone stuff in mer afaik Dec 13 03:27:40 you'd probably want dualboot Dec 13 03:27:44 when I look at the repo's I get that bad feeling I had when I had a Sharp Zaurus - LOCK DOWN! Dec 13 03:28:02 Mer is very unstable at the moment Dec 13 03:28:33 Lanta: the n900 is pretty open compared to the z's I've owned Dec 13 03:28:39 the wifi driver is fully open source for instance Dec 13 03:29:11 the video driver is not :( and the cell radio driver isn't, but that will likely never happen Dec 13 03:29:11 needs more packages, much more Dec 13 03:29:39 and I haven't seen this SDK repo, any ideas? Dec 13 03:29:50 http://repository.maemo.org Dec 13 03:29:52 i went to repositories.maemo.org but most arn't for fremantle Dec 13 03:30:04 Lanta: if you set up the sdk Dec 13 03:30:19 you should be able to compile most linux apps from source, and package as debs Dec 13 03:30:40 yah but they arn't for maemo 5 Dec 13 03:30:47 eh just replace diablo with fremantle Dec 13 03:31:05 they will run, its an X11 server Dec 13 03:31:07 But like I said, they're not meant to be used on the device, and haven't been tested to Dec 13 03:31:16 but yeah, you would need to do extra work if you want to make the UI fit better Dec 13 03:31:19 deb http://repository.maemo.org/ fremantle sdk/free sdk/non-free tools/free tools/non-free Dec 13 03:31:56 the n800/n810 didn't have the weird filesystem limitations and /opt setup did it? Dec 13 03:32:00 for example, apt-get dist-upgrade will most likely make it unbootable ;) Dec 13 03:32:05 if not, installing debs for diablo is going t ofill your / quickly Dec 13 03:32:26 what was the n800 cpu Dec 13 03:32:29 go1dfish, um, it had the same limitations, and it did not have the /opt solution Dec 13 03:32:34 asidjazz, omap2 Dec 13 03:32:44 ah ok Dec 13 03:33:13 In a way it was even more limited, because /home was on the same small device as / Dec 13 03:33:24 ShadowJK: was that faster than the n900 cpu Dec 13 03:33:31 N800 and N810 had TI OMAP 2420 Dec 13 03:33:31 no Dec 13 03:33:33 so / was only 256mb on the n800? Dec 13 03:33:44 N800 has / partition of 256MB Dec 13 03:33:47 read: http://wiki.maemo.org/Comparison_of_tablet_models Dec 13 03:33:47 n900 has the iphone cpu right? Dec 13 03:33:52 / is same size on n8x0 and n9x0 Dec 13 03:33:54 asidjazz: same as 3gs yes Dec 13 03:33:54 asidjazz, no Dec 13 03:33:55 N900 has the same CPU as iphone 3GS Dec 13 03:33:57 same gpu as well Dec 13 03:34:03 Same as 3gs, but not same as the previous Dec 13 03:34:05 TI OMAP 3430 / ARM Cortex Dec 13 03:34:11 and not same gpu, different model Dec 13 03:34:12 why did nokia pick such an older cpu Dec 13 03:34:30 they didn't Dec 13 03:34:32 asidjazz, older cpu? it's the newest one that's available in volume.. Dec 13 03:34:38 Can I put the USB port into host mode on the N900!? :D Dec 13 03:34:46 Lanta, people say no Dec 13 03:34:47 how does the gpu compare then ShadowJK? Dec 13 03:34:48 Lanta nobody knows how to yet. Dec 13 03:34:53 :( Dec 13 03:34:55 go1dfish, don't know Dec 13 03:35:04 really only N800 had host mode... Dec 13 03:35:07 for some reason I thought it was pretty nearly the same gpu chip Dec 13 03:35:09 N810 too Dec 13 03:35:14 well N8x0 Dec 13 03:35:27 wish I could take this N900 back Dec 13 03:35:28 the N800 and N810 were very similar hardware Dec 13 03:35:29 and 700 with power injection Dec 13 03:35:33 ShadowJK: cell phone companys make cpus available in volume :) Dec 13 03:36:02 asidjazz, no I mean omap4 doesn't exist yet except maybe as samples and in labs Dec 13 03:36:08 getting the 900 doing host usb will at minimum require the power injection hack like the 700 from what I've read Dec 13 03:36:22 but I don't know of anyone getting it successfully working in any capacity on the n900 Dec 13 03:36:37 is there any comparison chart/article on maemo vs android Dec 13 03:36:53 asidjazz: not that I know of, but from a platform perspective, the main difference is... Dec 13 03:37:01 android has a linux kernel, and it's own userspace stack Dec 13 03:37:08 770 Dec 13 03:37:15 heh Dec 13 03:37:19 "700" isn't a thing. Dec 13 03:37:20 go1dfish: while maemo... Dec 13 03:37:35 maemo has a linux kernel, a userspace stack very similar to a linux desktop, and some maemo specific userspace on top of that Dec 13 03:37:44 maemo feels much more like a linux box than android Dec 13 03:37:59 go1dfish, cause it is. :) Dec 13 03:38:05 can anyone tell me how the easydebian chroot stuff is different than a debootstrapped debian armel? Dec 13 03:38:06 GAN900: exactly :) Dec 13 03:38:09 go1dfish: i dont think you specified any differences there Dec 13 03:38:20 asedeno_work, he did Dec 13 03:38:23 uh Dec 13 03:38:25 asidjazz: what kind of user are you? Dec 13 03:38:35 the differences will depend on your viewpoint Dec 13 03:38:36 what do you mean Dec 13 03:38:39 oh Dec 13 03:38:47 what do you plan on using the device for Dec 13 03:38:48 just mean generally as an os Dec 13 03:38:52 for a developer Dec 13 03:38:58 to write apps Dec 13 03:39:03 ShadowJK so basicallyk what you've to me is... if I want something as simple as nano I have to compile it from the SDK? I can't use the one from debian armel? Dec 13 03:39:06 well I'd say as a developer, what I said is a clear difference Dec 13 03:39:13 on maemo, you can develop much like you would for a linux desktop Dec 13 03:39:22 gtk, qt (moreso moving forward) etc... Dec 13 03:39:31 For a developer, android is like this java that's not like any java anyone has used before Dec 13 03:39:35 Lanta, depends entirely on the package. Dec 13 03:39:43 For a developer, maemo is like this slightly modified Linux desktop environment Dec 13 03:40:00 Lanta, the base libs don't always match up versionwise. Dec 13 03:40:02 Lanta, the one from sdk tools repo works fine for me Dec 13 03:40:17 Lanta, you can also compile on the device. Dec 13 03:40:19 with android, you have to learn much more android specific stuff Dec 13 03:41:04 there is still some maemo specific api's and extensions of course, to enable things like accelerometer access, and other maemo specific things, but depending on your app you may not have to touch them at all Dec 13 03:41:46 I think this is part of the reason there is a lack of apps on the platform right now, one there is no store, so there is no financial motiviation, which was pretty pivitol in getting all the apps on the iphone, and android Dec 13 03:42:16 also, those same devs, who are only motivated financially, are likely peeved that they have to learn something new they aren't used to (linux development) Dec 13 03:42:19 ...about taking debian or ubuntu packages and trying to install them on maemo... Attempting to install packages from other distributions is generally a bad idea, whether it's maemo and debian, debian and ubuntu, fedora and suse or whatever :) Dec 13 03:42:31 go1dfish: in due time Dec 13 03:42:55 asidjazz: certainly, but there are people already bitching about the lack of apps, people who don't "get it" mind you ;) Dec 13 03:43:37 go1dfish: this isnt even really out yet Dec 13 03:43:43 ugh Dec 13 03:43:48 the only ppl bitching are hte ppl who went out of their way to find and get an n900 Dec 13 03:43:50 android just does NOT have a good jabber client :) Dec 13 03:43:50 exactly, which is why I find such complaints so humorous :) Dec 13 03:44:02 anybody here using jabber on the n900? Dec 13 03:44:08 i'm guessing it uses a new version of telepathy? Dec 13 03:44:11 * microlith loads Ruby on his N900 Dec 13 03:44:16 also, people are like "why is there no skype app", "why is there no voip app", when it's all built-in.. Dec 13 03:44:17 Macer: google talk yeah Dec 13 03:44:27 go1dfish: you are using gtalk as a jabber server right? Dec 13 03:44:27 sadly, the hildon bindings I have won't build :( Dec 13 03:44:28 lol Dec 13 03:44:29 not sure if thats different from your perspective, but it's jabber underneath Dec 13 03:44:41 taht is pretty awesome ShadowJK Dec 13 03:44:43 Macer: the n900 provides gtalk as a separate account type, so it handled all that for me :) Dec 13 03:45:01 ShadowJK: i love how thats such a big f-you to AT&T and T-MO Dec 13 03:45:03 go1dfish: i see. i think gtalk works just slightly differently although it is a jabber server Dec 13 03:45:04 microlith: why sully the device with such a crap interpreter ;) Dec 13 03:45:26 i need an actual jabber client.. but the n810 supported jabber servers so i am sure that the n900 would work fairly well Dec 13 03:45:30 i want php-gtk Dec 13 03:45:49 Macer: yeah jabber was listed as an account type to IIRC, without having to install extra plugins Dec 13 03:45:53 Macer, GTalk works out of the box. Dec 13 03:45:57 now AIM, MSN, and Yahoo support.... Dec 13 03:45:59 that's missing Dec 13 03:46:01 GAN900: i am sure Dec 13 03:46:02 Just like on Maemp 4 Dec 13 03:46:15 telepathy-extras in Extras-devel. Dec 13 03:46:15 asidjazz, well, all the E-series s60 phones from nokia have voip too.. so only skype is new when comparing to s60 (and on s60 you could install fring for skype, but it didn't integrate with the UI).. and maemo4 of course had both skype and voip Dec 13 03:46:17 go1dfish: i used to just set up jabber proxies Dec 13 03:46:30 GAN900: but how is the actual jabber support? Dec 13 03:46:30 ShadowJK: no but when they come ot the US its ripped out Dec 13 03:46:36 not the gtalk but if you were to run your own jabberd? Dec 13 03:46:41 * go1dfish is still waiting for google voice integration :D Dec 13 03:46:43 Macer, fine. Dec 13 03:46:48 GAN900: awesome. Dec 13 03:46:52 It's Telepathy. Dec 13 03:46:52 going to have to get an n900 then :) Dec 13 03:46:56 GAN900: ah ok. Dec 13 03:47:07 asidjazz, I thought only the operators ripped it out and that you could still get the real thing from nokia? Dec 13 03:47:09 does the n900's telepathy have the irc addons ? :) Dec 13 03:47:25 msn and irc addons are in extras-* something Dec 13 03:47:30 Macer: they are in extras-dev or testing not sure which Dec 13 03:47:30 awesome Dec 13 03:47:32 msn eats battery, irc is crippled Dec 13 03:47:34 ShadowJK: thats exactly what i mean Dec 13 03:47:37 time to buy an n900 Dec 13 03:47:40 ShadowJK: but "people" dont know that Dec 13 03:47:43 anyone else having trouble with aim connections? Dec 13 03:47:46 ShadowJK: heh. irc only needs to join channels ;) Dec 13 03:47:47 ShadowJK: so the average phone user cant harness it Dec 13 03:47:51 Macer, it doesn't. Dec 13 03:47:59 Macer, XChat. Dec 13 03:48:00 it doesn't? Dec 13 03:48:04 haha Dec 13 03:48:05 mmm google voice Dec 13 03:48:13 go1dfish, yes. Dec 13 03:48:19 does skype run on the n900? Dec 13 03:48:27 asidjazz, the problem begins when the average user buys phones from operators ;) Dec 13 03:48:29 without the lame call forwarding crap that most phones do? Dec 13 03:48:29 Macer: skype is built in Dec 13 03:48:37 ShadowJK: you're not getting my point Dec 13 03:48:39 go1dfish: does it call forward or does it use the data connection? Dec 13 03:48:44 Doesn't handle automatic connection changes gracefully. Dec 13 03:48:46 it uses the data connection afaik Dec 13 03:48:51 ShadowJK: my point is the fact that the operator does that means most everyone wont know it even existed Dec 13 03:48:53 wow. that's awesome Dec 13 03:48:58 I havent done any skyping besides signing on, but I've heard people rave about it Dec 13 03:49:07 things like answering a skype call without realizing it was skype and such Dec 13 03:49:10 go1dfish: i use skype all the time Dec 13 03:49:12 Macer, the answers are all the same as the last time you asked these questions. : Dec 13 03:49:14 j Dec 13 03:49:14 j Dec 13 03:49:19 I don't know if video chat is there yet? Dec 13 03:49:21 GAN900: haha Dec 13 03:49:25 last time i asked the phone wasn't out yet ;) Dec 13 03:49:32 there isnt even support for the front camera yet go1dfish Dec 13 03:49:34 video chat on skype? Dec 13 03:49:34 Macer, yes it was. :) Dec 13 03:49:46 only to nokia ass kissers :) Dec 13 03:49:50 asidjazz: there is some support Dec 13 03:49:52 Macer, and it's been in the hands of testers since September. Dec 13 03:49:55 the mirror app heh Dec 13 03:49:58 looks like complete ass though Dec 13 03:50:03 such ass Dec 13 03:50:05 i hope thats software Dec 13 03:50:06 asidjazz, I don't think nokia was saying f-u to anyone, they're mostly not paying attention to NA, they like to ignore it and treat it as an aberration in the global market.. Dec 13 03:50:08 pretty sure it is Dec 13 03:50:09 what does ass look like Dec 13 03:50:12 Macer, no, it had shipped the last time you asked. Dec 13 03:50:13 unless you have *awesome* lighting, and even then has some problems Dec 13 03:50:15 GAN900: does google video chatting work? Dec 13 03:50:26 ShadowJK: k now you're getting my point :) Dec 13 03:50:26 and kindly fuck off as to the "ass kissing" Dec 13 03:50:34 GAN900: hahahha Dec 13 03:50:37 nezb: cant even make out what it is Dec 13 03:50:54 No video chat (yet) Dec 13 03:50:56 asidjazz: I know I have it. In this case ass looks like pixel static. Dec 13 03:51:01 doh Dec 13 03:51:07 i supports h264 now though right? Dec 13 03:51:12 yeah Dec 13 03:51:13 heh, pixel static and a weird vertical bar Dec 13 03:51:16 it was such a let down that the n810 didn't Dec 13 03:51:21 Macer: hardware h264 at that :D Dec 13 03:51:35 unfortunately that is another binary blob driver though Dec 13 03:51:40 but is at least exposed through gstreamer Dec 13 03:51:53 n810 had a lot more potential if the cam worked properly for actual video chatting on something other than gizmo Dec 13 03:51:57 most of the problems people are having are software related that will be solved through the power of open-source...the N900 hardware is very good Dec 13 03:52:07 was kind of a shame that nokia totally wrote it off Dec 13 03:52:16 heh, I used to work in the same building as gizmo Dec 13 03:52:27 go1dfish - were they cool people? Dec 13 03:52:32 google owns gizmo now... Dec 13 03:52:45 didn't really know too many people at gizmo that well Dec 13 03:53:14 but got to play with video chats on the 800/810 etc.. plenty heh Dec 13 03:53:38 we did some IT development where I was working there to MP3tunes Dec 13 03:55:21 get to work on php-gtk ppl plskthx Dec 13 03:55:26 so I've been around these things for a while, many before they were officially released :) knew about rover/n900 for quite some time, made the wait that much more painful Dec 13 03:55:35 eww. PHP is a horrible language :P Dec 13 03:55:47 I got php-gtk to compile in the maemo sdk last night Dec 13 03:55:56 nezb: agreed, i can't decide which is worse, php or ruby Dec 13 03:55:58 php is a crap language Dec 13 03:56:02 and ruby has a crap interpreter Dec 13 03:56:09 ruby is not a bad language Dec 13 03:56:17 just it is slow as frozen shit Dec 13 03:56:21 whast wrong w/ php Dec 13 03:56:23 yeah language wise I have nothing against it Dec 13 03:56:28 php is a bad language that people have optimized the hell out of Dec 13 03:56:29 just the all the implementations of it Dec 13 03:56:43 php 5+ is alot better Dec 13 03:56:52 got an error though when trying to run it with the php-gtk extension: "_X11TransSocketINETConnect() can't get address for localhost:6002: Name or service not known" Dec 13 03:56:52 python is a good language, too bad it is not widespread Dec 13 03:57:10 nezb: I'm a fan of python to, it's good because it hasn't been widespread yet Dec 13 03:57:19 how does that make it good? Dec 13 03:57:22 same with django, I'm thankful ROR took the hype/heat Dec 13 03:57:27 the docs are sweet and easy http://gtk.php.net/manual/en/gtk.gtkcalendar.php Dec 13 03:57:36 it lets you be more flexible Dec 13 03:57:41 why would that make it good go1dfish Dec 13 03:57:47 cuz you know some language most ppl dont? Dec 13 03:57:52 :) Dec 13 03:57:53 PHP would have likely been redesigned to suck less if there werent so many people using it that would bitch about backwards compatibility Dec 13 03:58:06 python 3.0 is how you make a good transition Dec 13 03:58:08 asidjazz: nah, python is not espescially difficult heh Dec 13 03:58:18 2.5-2.6-3.0 was very smooth Dec 13 03:58:27 i never said it was Dec 13 03:58:29 I haven't dabbled in 3.0 yet Dec 13 03:58:38 are there any sample python maemo apps out there yte Dec 13 03:58:47 probably Dec 13 03:58:48 yep Dec 13 03:58:51 asidjazz: yeah im just saying that since it's so easy, it's hard to feel good knowing it because others don't :D Dec 13 03:58:51 url Dec 13 03:58:59 http://wiki.maemo.org/PyMaemo Dec 13 03:59:29 http://wiki.maemo.org/PyMaemo/UITutorial to be more exact Dec 13 03:59:34 that said, I am exceedingly efficient with it, been doing mostly python dev for the past 5-6 years now Dec 13 03:59:42 its bad though, hard to find python work/jobs Dec 13 03:59:48 have you done anything in google app engine go1dfish? Dec 13 03:59:53 but good in that way to in a way Dec 13 03:59:56 I am working on a python app that uses it Dec 13 04:00:02 nezb: nah, I am running a django site on aws though :) Dec 13 04:00:05 looks sweet Dec 13 04:00:15 app engine is very similar to django Dec 13 04:00:16 http://tunetrack.net/ works on the n900 as well ;) Dec 13 04:00:26 yeah it's based on django iirc Dec 13 04:00:27 nice i will check it out Dec 13 04:00:32 yes Dec 13 04:00:47 I ported a little pyqt4 app I wrote to maemo last week Dec 13 04:00:58 well almost I have to add one more dialog and then I'll post it Dec 13 04:01:23 hm Dec 13 04:01:26 what was that app that let you do python on the N8x0 with an integrated IDE? Dec 13 04:01:27 does the earth need the moon? Dec 13 04:01:38 nezb: pygtkeditor? Dec 13 04:01:41 no.. Dec 13 04:01:46 it was designed for Maemo4 Dec 13 04:02:00 dont know, pygtkeditor is available on the n900 and sounds similar Dec 13 04:02:10 ugh I can't find it Dec 13 04:02:15 don't know if I'd really call it an ide though, but it will let you execute the file you have open, which is convenient Dec 13 04:02:27 I don't generally use IDE's though Dec 13 04:02:36 this was a program that you ran on your computer and had a python "mini-ide" Dec 13 04:02:42 then there was a server you ran on the N8x0 Dec 13 04:02:46 screen+vim is my DE Dec 13 04:02:51 and when you did things on the computer they would execute on the device Dec 13 04:02:56 oh yeah, thats quite different, sounds cool Dec 13 04:02:59 hardware but you see them on the host Dec 13 04:03:01 so how do python maemo packages work Dec 13 04:03:08 is it straight up the source of the app in the package Dec 13 04:03:19 I haven't messed with python maemo, or packaging Dec 13 04:03:25 the app I did was qt Dec 13 04:03:30 PyQt? Dec 13 04:03:33 I probably won't bother touching gtk on the device Dec 13 04:03:37 originally PyQt4 yeah Dec 13 04:03:40 whats the best vim colorscheme for python :) Dec 13 04:03:44 but switched it over to PySide for the n900 Dec 13 04:03:47 gtk is deprecated on n900 Dec 13 04:03:55 i like zenburn for vim Dec 13 04:03:59 nezb: yeah, qt isn't quite there yet though Dec 13 04:04:07 http://slinky.imukuppi.org/zenburn/ Dec 13 04:04:17 well it's there, but not perfect Dec 13 04:04:24 will be soon :) Dec 13 04:04:35 yep, I'm looking forward to a more qt4 oriented maemo :) Dec 13 04:04:40 qt4 is an amazing library Dec 13 04:04:41 samr Dec 13 04:04:45 same* Dec 13 04:05:24 I FOUND IT!! PluThon Dec 13 04:05:25 http://pluthon.garage.maemo.org/2nd_edition/ Dec 13 04:05:34 "PluThon is an Eclipse Ganymede-based product that provides support for developing Python applications for maemo. PluThon does NOT require Scratchbox. Developers run and debug applications directly on a maemo device, speeding up the development time." Dec 13 04:05:47 requires Eclipse which is very heavy though.... Dec 13 04:05:53 ah Dec 13 04:05:56 ie. the reason I never really used it :P Dec 13 04:06:01 I did my porting directly on the device heh :) Dec 13 04:06:08 some of it editing with the built in keyboard Dec 13 04:06:12 and some vim over ssh Dec 13 04:06:14 pluthon eh Dec 13 04:06:41 idk. their screenshots look really sexy. Dec 13 04:06:47 I even managed to get a quick little qt4 webkit demo working in python on my loaner Dec 13 04:07:00 but haven't been able to get the PySide webkit libraries on my production device yet, not sure why Dec 13 04:07:09 what really surprised me.... Dec 13 04:07:15 was when I did a gtk python desktop applet.... Dec 13 04:07:26 ? Dec 13 04:07:34 that imported PySide and set up a QApplication... Dec 13 04:07:45 o.o Dec 13 04:07:47 and launched a window with a QWebView control Dec 13 04:07:54 and it actually somehow worked Dec 13 04:08:01 ...from gtk applet? Dec 13 04:08:03 which I'm still quite baffled as to how Dec 13 04:08:15 since my understanding is that the desktop applets all run in the same process Dec 13 04:08:23 yes they do Dec 13 04:08:23 but I swear it worked Dec 13 04:08:32 black magic! he is a witch! burn him! Dec 13 04:08:34 all python Dec 13 04:09:37 webkit is quite snappy on the n900 btw Dec 13 04:09:42 faster than the built in browser Dec 13 04:09:47 really? Dec 13 04:09:52 I would like a faster browser Dec 13 04:09:59 even with all the python overhead I was using to invoke it Dec 13 04:10:00 Fennec I tried earlier today was the wrong direction... Dec 13 04:10:02 no flash though Dec 13 04:10:07 Flash is overrated imho Dec 13 04:10:10 yeah I'd recommend uninstalling fennec and xulrunner Dec 13 04:10:15 Sorry for the inconvenience. garage has a maintenance break. <--- ANGER Dec 13 04:10:25 xulrunner is 20+ MB and installs in / partition Dec 13 04:10:33 Tear is a webkit based browser Dec 13 04:10:36 pretty fast Dec 13 04:10:40 wtf. that's stupid of the developers/packagers. Dec 13 04:10:46 is Tear in maemo repos? Dec 13 04:10:48 hey there Dec 13 04:10:57 hello Dec 13 04:10:57 it's in dev or testing, not sure which Dec 13 04:11:00 hey Vratha Dec 13 04:11:09 the package is just tear? Dec 13 04:11:16 so it looks like maemo has more support for python than ruby Dec 13 04:11:19 any of you guys compiling software for the n900? i was thinking of doing up prboom Dec 13 04:11:22 I asked the nokia guys if they were planning on moving to webkit for the browser engine as they transition more to QT Dec 13 04:11:34 because, i want to go to work, and during breaks, load up my doom wads and DESTROY CYBERDEMONS!!! :) Dec 13 04:11:40 but they say they plan to stick with gecko/firefox for the browser for the increased compatibility Dec 13 04:11:49 and see webkit more as a web application play Dec 13 04:12:03 Vratha: prboom would be sweet Dec 13 04:12:15 and yet oddly Webkit is used on their 2 major competitors Dec 13 04:12:30 nezb: I think partly they just want the name recognition Dec 13 04:12:38 firefox that is Dec 13 04:12:45 its the same browser as my desktop sort of thing Dec 13 04:12:45 MOZILLA TECHNOLOGY (TM) Dec 13 04:12:59 kind of the same play as apple, but will work for more people ;) Dec 13 04:13:03 safari/chrome are my browsers at home Dec 13 04:13:11 chrome on ubuntu on my netbook Dec 13 04:13:18 on n900 you have the choice to use a webkit browser if you want. Dec 13 04:13:21 firefox on my main pc with dual core cpu Dec 13 04:13:23 havent tried chrome since it reached beta on linux yet Dec 13 04:13:32 I tried some of the chromium builds though Dec 13 04:13:33 chrome on ubuntu is _very_fast_ Dec 13 04:13:44 the competitors don't have gecko as an option. Dec 13 04:13:45 I have the PPA for chromium nightlies Dec 13 04:13:46 apparently there are already 500 chrome plkugins rd Dec 13 04:14:03 also, microB is built around an abstraction layer for the rendering engine... Dec 13 04:14:06 I've heard chrome is really fast on linux, at least compared to chrome on windows. Dec 13 04:14:26 dmj7261: shit really, last I tried it on windows it was crazy fast Dec 13 04:14:35 its even faster! Dec 13 04:14:39 it's pretty fast on osx too Dec 13 04:14:49 https://chrome.google.com/extensions/?utm_campaign=en&utm_source=en-ha-na-us-bk-ext&utm_medium=ha Dec 13 04:14:54 Faster than firefox and safari Dec 13 04:14:57 Oh no! We have to pick between multiple incarnations of gecko and webkit based browsers. Dec 13 04:15:10 Tear browser is not on extras... must be in testing Dec 13 04:15:16 truly, it is a burden, all this choice :) Dec 13 04:15:37 microB supposedly can swap out the rendering engine Dec 13 04:15:39 yeah, we have to pick between a selection of the best mobile browsers. Dec 13 04:15:45 to webkit, opera, etc.. Dec 13 04:15:47 oh the horror Dec 13 04:16:47 I haven't seen any docs on how to make microB switch though, just docs on the architecture that make it possible Dec 13 04:16:47 is there opera for maemo? Dec 13 04:16:58 Maemo 3 ... Dec 13 04:17:14 not that I really care about opera when I can pick firefox. Dec 13 04:17:14 came bundled with the original IT OS 2007 firmware for N800 Dec 13 04:17:42 maybe if maemo5 gets popular enough opera will do a new version Dec 13 04:18:05 opera is still proprietary... everyone in here will probably throw a fit Dec 13 04:18:11 meh Dec 13 04:18:19 I think Opera is a better browser than firefox. Opera's problem is that their interface sucks and always has. Dec 13 04:18:26 they shouldn't be using maemo, then Dec 13 04:18:28 also I have been playing "bullshitbingo" on the N900 and we are very close to winning Dec 13 04:19:41 is chrome fully open source? Dec 13 04:19:58 I'd be happy if opera made a maemo5 version Dec 13 04:20:05 less happy if it was shipped as the default ;) Dec 13 04:20:16 dmj7261, everything except for the google icon I think Dec 13 04:20:18 given the proprietaryness Dec 13 04:20:32 go1dfish, 100% agreement there :) Dec 13 04:20:42 I just wish the rest of the source to microb was open :/ Dec 13 04:20:51 it isnt? Dec 13 04:20:55 I wouldn't mind opera beng available, might even have it installed as a backup browser, but I can't see me prefering it Dec 13 04:20:57 gui isnt Dec 13 04:21:04 yeah, parts of the UII aren't :| Dec 13 04:21:32 here on the docs on the EAL btw: http://browser.garage.maemo.org/docs/eal/index.html Dec 13 04:21:35 oh didn't realize that Dec 13 04:21:39 I haven't found a good browser for the n900 yet Dec 13 04:22:07 whats wrong with the default one? Dec 13 04:22:16 I just want something fast Dec 13 04:22:24 Default once is pretty decent Dec 13 04:22:26 one Dec 13 04:22:46 it isn't bad, wouldn't say it rocks Dec 13 04:23:00 I like it more than fennek Dec 13 04:23:05 Lateralus: increase your cache size to 40mb Dec 13 04:23:07 i like the default one, cant get greasemonkey to work tho :/ Dec 13 04:23:08 it helps Dec 13 04:24:34 oh dang https://chrome.google.com/extensions/detail/bnbbfjbeaefgipfjpdabmpadaacmafkj Dec 13 04:25:29 firebug owns Dec 13 04:26:03 lite doesn't Dec 13 04:26:03 so chrome is exactly the same as chromium, except for the icon? Dec 13 04:26:14 like firefox and abrowser or ice weasel? Dec 13 04:26:23 dmj7261: chromium is usually more recent to Dec 13 04:26:30 still beats the developefr toolbar though Dec 13 04:27:04 no i uninstalled it its wack Dec 13 04:27:05 nothing like real firebug Dec 13 04:27:13 haha Dec 13 04:27:24 its just javascript Dec 13 04:27:48 I was worried they might be divergent in some ways. Dec 13 04:28:03 the hardcore firebug stuff relies on internal firefox stuff Dec 13 04:28:37 dmj7261: nah not as far as I know, except insofar that chromium is closer to the current state of development, so generally fresher Dec 13 04:28:54 found it: http://code.google.com/p/chromium/wiki/ChromiumBrowserVsGoogleChrome Dec 13 04:29:32 big one is optional sandbox and codec support Dec 13 04:30:04 although I would expect that codec support for chromium would be possible via plugins if it's like firefox. Dec 13 04:30:43 I've been using chrome from the "developer channel" Dec 13 04:30:49 I wonder how that compares to chromium builds Dec 13 04:31:22 why didnt maemo choose chrome Dec 13 04:31:36 why did google dump millions into firefox and then still build all this Dec 13 04:31:37 dmj7261: most likely so, Im worried the codec crap will be a problem for html5 video adoption Dec 13 04:31:46 yeah Dec 13 04:32:03 asidjazz: they give their employees 15% of their time to work on whatever so long as it's tangentally related heh Dec 13 04:32:09 chrome started as one of those projects Dec 13 04:32:29 honestly im glad, gecko is cool, and firefox is a shining example of open source, but man that codebase is crufty Dec 13 04:32:30 Hopefully theora will gain acceptance as it's quality improves Dec 13 04:32:54 hmm, i haven't noticed any speed over safari from chrom Dec 13 04:32:56 chrome* Dec 13 04:33:10 but i do notice that chrome doesn't crash like safari was... must have updated something on it that made it go bonkers Dec 13 04:33:11 what version of safari? didn't safari just update the JS engine as well? Dec 13 04:33:23 Feels faster for sure here. Dec 13 04:33:27 yeah, it did. safari is fast Dec 13 04:33:33 oh, i didn't notice a speed difference Dec 13 04:33:52 Vratha: safari/chrome on mac? Dec 13 04:33:54 Page rendering feels more snappy than with safari Dec 13 04:33:57 only thing that annoys me about chrome is the URL bar doubles as a search bar Dec 13 04:34:00 are you guys worried about the n900 vs the google phone Dec 13 04:34:08 tahts supposed to be out early 2010 Dec 13 04:34:08 go1dfish: yeah Dec 13 04:34:14 I haven't tried chrome on mac, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was slower there, it only recently was released as beta for mac Dec 13 04:34:19 The only time I've really noticed a speed difference is with Firefox 3.5 Dec 13 04:34:27 asidjazz: the google phone has no keyboard, and thus is irellevant to my interests Dec 13 04:34:30 asidjazz: only for the fact that maybe this phone won't get all the apps i think it deserves Dec 13 04:34:41 they need to hurry up and release the Ovi Store :) Dec 13 04:34:49 go1dfish: lolu dont know that Dec 13 04:34:57 hehe, you can make your own ;) Dec 13 04:35:16 They also need to hury up and fix bugs like random reboot issues. Dec 13 04:35:28 Dyresen: yeah, the bugs are awful Dec 13 04:35:31 asidjazz: well all the current rumors/pics say no keboard Dec 13 04:35:42 go1dfish: you really believe those Dec 13 04:35:45 I haven't ran into an unexpected reboot myself Dec 13 04:35:46 1st off look at the common pic Dec 13 04:35:50 no iSync plugin, buggy contacts menu, no default country code for skype calling Dec 13 04:35:52 says HTC at the top Dec 13 04:35:57 and random app crashes Dec 13 04:36:08 google specifically said in their announcement you will see no phone company logo just google branding Dec 13 04:36:11 like how m$ did the zune Dec 13 04:36:13 which was by toshiba Dec 13 04:36:16 http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/12/google-employees-given-htc-made-google-phones/ Dec 13 04:36:30 those are just htc phones Dec 13 04:36:33 of some model Dec 13 04:36:36 true, but its likely not a final unit either Dec 13 04:36:44 probalby to play w/ or something until its manufactured Dec 13 04:36:46 also, I think there is a perception that keyboards are not necessary/desired for mass market phones Dec 13 04:36:59 http://www.billshrink.com/blog/nexus-one-google-phone-confirmed-details/ Dec 13 04:37:01 if theres no kb i wont touch it either Dec 13 04:37:08 thats all the same HTC Dec 13 04:37:14 those pics are not the phone Dec 13 04:37:16 necessary? no desired? yes Dec 13 04:37:33 They were long planning to have the phone be available by the holidays, but it has now slipped to early 2010. The phone will be produced by a major phone manufacturer but will only have Google branding Dec 13 04:37:42 those things hvae HTC all over em Dec 13 04:37:59 which is funny since HTC just started really trying to develop their brand Dec 13 04:38:40 did you guys notice this Dec 13 04:38:44 go to www.google.com Dec 13 04:38:49 fade in Dec 13 04:38:52 click "im feeling lucky" w/out typing anything Dec 13 04:38:58 in the search box Dec 13 04:39:00 OMG Dec 13 04:39:19 what does it mean!? 1642841 Dec 13 04:39:28 number of seconds until google takes over the world :o Dec 13 04:39:28 seconds till end of year... Dec 13 04:39:39 Wow Dec 13 04:39:41 or google phone release Dec 13 04:39:55 no, it's exactly the time till the end of the year... Dec 13 04:40:06 why would they do this this yaer? Dec 13 04:40:08 google phone releas e:) Dec 13 04:40:37 googles gonna send some kinda cellular single over the planet on NYE Dec 13 04:40:41 gsm and cdma Dec 13 04:40:48 that will brick all phones in existance Dec 13 04:40:58 then boom google stores will come out of hte ground Dec 13 04:41:03 My n900 bricked anyway Dec 13 04:41:04 and phones will shoot out int o the air Dec 13 04:41:20 and whoever catches one boom instant $500 removed from their checking Dec 13 04:41:32 s/single/signal Dec 13 04:44:13 I spend too much money on gadgets Dec 13 04:44:26 Next thing will be a google bank Dec 13 04:44:26 says the man on irc in #maemo :) Dec 13 04:44:29 now I have more computer-like devices than I know what to do with Dec 13 04:44:33 Dyresen, really? Tried leaving it on the charger for a while, then reflashing? Dec 13 04:44:36 And then google child care Dec 13 04:44:42 my computers a computer Dec 13 04:44:44 my phones a computer Dec 13 04:44:47 my mp3 player is a computer Dec 13 04:44:52 ^ yup, yup, and yup Dec 13 04:44:57 all w/ bt i can answer my phone w/ my computer play music w/ my phone and code on my mp3 player Dec 13 04:45:06 also my netbook is a computer Dec 13 04:45:11 my *soul* is a computer Dec 13 04:45:19 just waiting for all of them to transform and combine to make a supre robot of me Dec 13 04:45:24 nezb, now that's stretching it...to call netbooks computers I mean ;) Dec 13 04:45:31 my netbook care a Core 2 Solo Dec 13 04:45:32 johnx: yeah, really. Random reboot leading to bricked device. There is a bug report on it. But since the device reboots all the time, I sent it back. Dec 13 04:45:37 i just code on my netbook via my phone kb Dec 13 04:45:39 via bt Dec 13 04:45:53 thats why i want a netbook w/ no kb and a detachable bt kb for my phone i can use to code Dec 13 04:45:56 while i jog Dec 13 04:45:57 asidjazz - sounds like fun Dec 13 04:45:59 in space Dec 13 04:46:07 asidjazz - they make that I think Dec 13 04:46:12 ill take 10 Dec 13 04:46:14 Dyresen, bummer. I hope they get that sorted out. Some people really with similar symptoms just had totally flat batteries Dec 13 04:46:15 pay top price Dec 13 04:46:23 what $200 cheaper the 2nd day its out? who cares gimme here take my wallet Dec 13 04:46:28 asidjazz - Google for "Always Innovating's Touch Book" Dec 13 04:46:32 can i pay while jogging in space via bt from my phone? Dec 13 04:46:43 it has ARM cpu / Linux Dec 13 04:47:25 can i have it use my computer cpu and answer calls from myphone while shuffling songs on my mp3 player built into my show w/ a built in umbrella and ketchup dispensor Dec 13 04:47:28 johnx: as far as I understand, not this doesn't happend on all devices, so yes, I hope it will be better. Getting new one on monday. Dec 13 04:47:31 https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6350 Dec 13 04:47:32 Bug 6350: random reboot bricks device Dec 13 04:47:34 my shoe* Dec 13 04:47:52 asidjazz: It just reads your mind and does everything for you without you even thinking Dec 13 04:48:17 johnx: but quite a few people reports random reboots. Dec 13 04:48:25 I really want a touch book now >_> Dec 13 04:48:41 id like to get a second n900 to strap to my ear so that i can send calls to it via the n900 im holding so i can type on an n900 while talking on one w/out speaker Dec 13 04:48:47 Dyresen, yup. I noticed that. We had one of them in here, and he was able to borrow a battery from his friend to reflash and he seemed to be good after that Dec 13 04:49:04 then while not using my other n900 they cluster to make one super n900 Dec 13 04:49:06 is it possible that some of the random reboots are due to software bug and some others are hardware defect? Dec 13 04:49:09 totally possible that it's a different issue though. if you can reflash at all, then yeah, it's different Dec 13 04:49:21 we should not lump them all together .. maybe we can get kernel logs from randomly rebooting devices? Dec 13 04:49:34 actually i need an n900 w/ an n900 compartment to hold a spare n900 Dec 13 04:49:54 johnx: yeah, could be the battery is just weak. But I doubt it. Had it on the charger all night. And it did this right from the beginning. Dec 13 04:49:55 i need an N9001 because then it would be over 9000 Dec 13 04:50:16 brb gonna microwave some lasagna Dec 13 04:50:16 Dyresen, but you were able to reboot and the problem keeps happening? Dec 13 04:50:21 OVER NINE THOUSAND Dec 13 04:50:29 s/reboot/reflash/ Dec 13 04:50:30 nezb: w/ your n900? Dec 13 04:50:30 johnx meant: Dyresen, but you were able to reflash and the problem keeps happening? Dec 13 04:50:40 * antezz eats nebz lasagna Dec 13 04:50:47 asidjazz: my n900 stays with me at all times Dec 13 04:50:52 * johnx is obviously on cruise control Dec 13 04:51:03 * nezb thinks antezz fails at eating my lasagna because you spelled my name wrong Dec 13 04:51:15 * antezz crys Dec 13 04:51:24 * nezb is running on very little sleep Dec 13 04:51:29 * nezb comforts antezz Dec 13 04:51:41 it's okay... Dec 13 04:51:51 antezz, dude. I think you ate someone else's lasagna :) Dec 13 04:52:02 I'll show you how to make your own lasagna in the microwave :P Dec 13 04:52:09 well it was yummy! Dec 13 04:52:17 johnx: didn't even bother with reflashing. I dont have time for debugging a brand new device. I just told them to send me a new one or Im taking my bussines elsewere (I buy there for like $100K a year and some of my colleges do the same hehe) :) Dec 13 04:52:18 my old microwave used to stop me from getting 802.11g Dec 13 04:52:21 when it was on Dec 13 04:52:23 ye, cuz im hungry Dec 13 04:52:52 Dyresen: what do you buy $100k/yr of from Nokia? Dec 13 04:52:58 Dyresen, just wondering :) Dec 13 04:53:06 nezb, that's scary Dec 13 04:53:13 nezb: no, servers and stuff mostly. Dec 13 04:53:19 Dyresen: ah Dec 13 04:53:29 johnx: ^_^ eventually it stopped working Dec 13 04:53:50 i got some rack servers collecting dust here :o Dec 13 04:53:51 don't stand near anything like that. you'll boil your eyeballs Dec 13 04:54:00 antezz: I will trade you a lasagna for one Dec 13 04:54:13 johnx: used to stand like 5 ft. away from it Dec 13 04:54:25 hmm, 1/r^2 Dec 13 04:54:28 haha you would need to make me alot of lasagna for that trade Dec 13 04:54:42 yeah, not too bad I guess, but how far away was the computer it was interfering with? Dec 13 04:54:48 antezz: ..... that .... could be arranged Dec 13 04:54:52 johnx: 15 ft? Dec 13 04:54:55 haha Dec 13 04:55:08 it was right between the router and computer about 50 ft. total Dec 13 04:55:46 I really need to buy one of those cheapo 2.4GHz-only spectrum analyzers Dec 13 04:55:58 thinkgeek.com sells one I think Dec 13 04:56:05 nezb: there were 9000 and 9110 ;-) Dec 13 04:56:06 I waste too much money on that site Dec 13 04:56:18 I think I can expense it at work :D Dec 13 04:56:34 =) Dec 13 04:57:14 seriously, our wifi and bt mice/keyboards all lose connection like once a week or so, all at once Dec 13 04:57:22 solar flare Dec 13 04:57:31 thank you, Mr. BOFH Dec 13 04:57:37 np ;p Dec 13 04:58:14 I just bet that tomorrow you say it's static electricity, and global warming the day after that :P Dec 13 04:58:46 no, global warming was recently disproven by an email server hack Dec 13 04:58:51 oh noes 2012! Dec 13 04:59:06 plus I'm in Florida, we don't have static electricty due to high humidity Dec 13 04:59:32 I once took a job in a computer repair shop one summer and we never used ESD bands Dec 13 04:59:43 if [ $server == "hackable" ] ; then global_warming=0 ; fi Dec 13 05:00:09 johnx: mmm bash scripting. ref: http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=1&ved=0CAcQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fedition.cnn.com%2F2009%2FTECH%2F11%2F23%2Fhacker.climate%2Findex.html&rct=j&q=climate+change+hack&ei=y3QkS9aZLJS1tgeB4sXKBw&usg=AFQjCNGfPFM-1zax_Olfhwqk4BWY4O33pw&sig2=d6uwyl1rsuCqeb51zT3AWQ Dec 13 05:00:11 OMG THE HACKERS Dec 13 05:00:13 does maemo 5 use UTF8 as default locale? Dec 13 05:00:22 johnx: i saw the pics, it had no slash marks what so ever.. therefor. not hacked Dec 13 05:00:32 small url :o Dec 13 05:00:42 my bad. google eats my urls. http://edition.cnn.com/2009/TECH/11/23/hacker.climate/index.html Dec 13 05:00:48 that's the direct link Dec 13 05:00:55 (I hate google for doing this) Dec 13 05:00:56 redeeman, I've never been to UTF8. how's the weather? Dec 13 05:01:06 nezb, yeah, I heard about that one. I don't want to get into the drama Dec 13 05:01:22 me neither, johnx, I think that it is quite funny though Dec 13 05:01:53 should have hired a better IT staff, or bought them more coffee ;) Dec 13 05:02:16 or give them a raise Dec 13 05:02:28 nezb: or not used email Dec 13 05:02:29 that too Dec 13 05:02:36 Xisdibik: you don't use email? Dec 13 05:02:50 nezb: i do, but i dont send information that could falsify Global Warming :P Dec 13 05:03:04 Xisdibik: touche Dec 13 05:03:08 or use envrypted mails Dec 13 05:03:16 encryption can be broken Dec 13 05:03:22 johnx: well.. some locale.utf8 Dec 13 05:03:22 they should all meet Dec 13 05:03:27 antezz, just changes the attack point to some dude's laptop Dec 13 05:03:40 redeeman, :) uhm, how would I check that? Dec 13 05:03:48 I like how nobody suggests that they should have just not lied about it in the first place Dec 13 05:03:56 uhm, probably /etc/default/locale Dec 13 05:04:11 echo $LANGUAGE Dec 13 05:04:18 nezb, well duh. everyone lies about global warming at work. they just happened to be scientists Dec 13 05:04:18 why? they earn alot of money from it Dec 13 05:04:37 honesty > * Dec 13 05:05:18 redeemon, my Debian box has enviornment variable LANG set to en_US.UTF-8, since Maemo is similar maybe it is set also? Dec 13 05:05:53 im gonna brb and make some food, cant take the N900 with me since its on charge :( Dec 13 05:06:03 en_US Dec 13 05:06:04 :( Dec 13 05:07:24 dpkg-reconfigure locales? Dec 13 05:07:50 johnx: no .utf8? Dec 13 05:08:06 no just en_US when I type env Dec 13 05:08:13 en_US is an abomination though, at the very least en_GB Dec 13 05:08:32 why is en_US an abomination Dec 13 05:08:42 because of the US Dec 13 05:08:43 hey... Dec 13 05:08:53 yeah. well, that's constructive Dec 13 05:09:19 /flamewar avoided Dec 13 05:09:36 on another subject, does anyone know how fast the big flash is on the n900? the one used for MyDocs Dec 13 05:09:40 more like /ignore avoided :) Dec 13 05:09:59 hehe Dec 13 05:10:08 redeemon - what do you mean Dec 13 05:10:10 I forgot, do you have an N900 redeeman? Dec 13 05:10:15 i do Dec 13 05:10:46 well, it has time and dd :) Dec 13 05:11:04 http://labs.trolltech.com/blogs/2009/05/13/qt-declarative-ui/ Dec 13 05:11:07 are we able to use qml yet Dec 13 05:11:08 oh, flash as in flash memory not adobe flash.... Dec 13 05:11:10 but I don't know how fast it is, just that it's slower than the rootfs NAND Dec 13 05:11:44 im debating whether to get a microsd card for my debian chroot, or repartition the big one Dec 13 05:11:59 get a card and a card reader for your desktop Dec 13 05:12:32 i could just expose the sd card via gadget mass storage Dec 13 05:13:21 you could. just giving some advice from my experience getting debian on the N800 ;) Dec 13 05:13:32 in ~/MyDocs and running: time dd if=/dev/zero of=temp bs=8192k count=60 Dec 13 05:13:33 http://wiki.maemo.org/QML#Test_Run_on_Device Dec 13 05:13:39 whoa Dec 13 05:13:45 u guys play w/ this yet Dec 13 05:14:17 haven't yet, but it does look quite interesting Dec 13 05:14:20 ooh looks cool Dec 13 05:15:26 results for 491520k written to ~/MyDocs: 1m 12.29s (real), 0s (user), 9.55s (sys) Dec 13 05:15:57 did you 'sync' afterwards? Dec 13 05:16:10 oh... crap Dec 13 05:16:14 otherwise you should have done oflag=direct, but busybox dd probably doesn't support that Dec 13 05:16:15 *goes to redo test* Dec 13 05:16:33 though, it's also possible the fs is mounted sync Dec 13 05:17:07 FS is not mounted flag sync Dec 13 05:17:13 I will redo the test Dec 13 05:17:41 also, I read that as 500MB in 12.29s the first time :) Dec 13 05:18:28 +4.5 Dec 13 05:18:54 nezb: 4.5 seconds more? Dec 13 05:19:04 oops wrong window Dec 13 05:19:23 70.08 seconds including dd and sync Dec 13 05:19:38 that's faster, isn't it? Dec 13 05:19:39 erhm, that's less than before? Dec 13 05:19:46 this is 7013 kbytes/sec Dec 13 05:19:48 yeah, oddly Dec 13 05:20:07 that actually seems mostly inline with what I see on USB transfers Dec 13 05:20:21 agreed Dec 13 05:20:22 not more than one order of magnitude off at any rate :) Dec 13 05:20:26 then microsd won't be much faster Dec 13 05:20:52 but the convenience will probably be nice Dec 13 05:20:54 I am going to do the test again to make sure this isn't a fluke Dec 13 05:21:16 perhaps it does special things with zeroes Dec 13 05:21:42 redeeman - "special"? Dec 13 05:22:15 well.. FTL stuff can be funky, it may do some reset or reorganize wear levelling, stuff it wouldn't normally do Dec 13 05:22:35 doing this causes my little CPU status meter to go nearly 100% Dec 13 05:23:03 hey, generating fresh zeros takes a lot of power Dec 13 05:23:04 this time it took 85 seconds Dec 13 05:23:23 for the same 503316480 bytes of zeroes Dec 13 05:23:47 so 5782k/sec Dec 13 05:24:32 basically you are looking at normal "class-6" write speeds Dec 13 05:26:20 I should try that test on my zaurus 5500 :) Dec 13 05:27:14 though, I'll try with a smaller size, since I don't want to be waiting all night ... Dec 13 05:29:17 do you guys got voice/cam plugin to work with pidgin? Dec 13 05:29:23 the question is, how much more power does the microsd card stuff use than the builtin? Dec 13 05:29:26 never tried Dec 13 05:29:50 i tryd but the options was stil blacked out Dec 13 05:29:50 that exists? sounds like something I might want Dec 13 05:30:05 i put my videos into subdirectories to organize them. a dying breed. Dec 13 05:30:17 ye pidgin comes with a few plugins Dec 13 05:30:37 one of them are voice/cam plugin havent got it to work yet Dec 13 05:30:54 would be fun tho :) Dec 13 05:30:58 redeeman, er, looking at the additional power required by the N800 for an SD card, might be a decent place to start Dec 13 05:33:18 http://www.drlinux.it/maemo/battery_consumption.html Dec 13 05:34:22 heh. zaurus 5500 (strongarm) writes to a class 6 SDHC at 307kB/s :) Dec 13 05:34:34 nice :) Dec 13 05:35:00 tested with 64MB. took just over 4 minutes Dec 13 05:35:07 I will not be retesting with 512MB... Dec 13 05:35:19 to be fair I only did 500MB Dec 13 05:35:51 heh. I just tend to type in powers of two when I'm thinking in terms of data storage :) Dec 13 05:36:14 I do too. It was actually 480MB when I did ls -lh on the file... 8192*60 Dec 13 05:40:26 ustream has client for androi and iphone Dec 13 05:43:35 redeeman about the internal big flash speeds, it's very fast, i got ~16MB/s transfer (write) speeds on it Dec 13 05:43:57 the test nezb just conducted says only 6MB/s Dec 13 05:44:25 files smaller than 256MB may appear to transfer very fast ;) Dec 13 05:44:37 http://dl.dropbox.com/u/14681/N900TransferSpeed.png Dec 13 05:44:53 your OS caches that Dec 13 05:45:06 it does? Dec 13 05:45:31 i doubt it, since it presents itself as mass storage - write caching being off Dec 13 05:45:43 well hmm, i don't know about win7, if it caches it should be alot faster than 16mb, but still, 16mb is quite fast Dec 13 05:45:48 wouldn't be surprised if some cache was involved on the N900's side as well Dec 13 05:45:58 the block cache yes Dec 13 05:46:01 how can it cache 16MB/s for a gb? Dec 13 05:46:02 lol Dec 13 05:46:14 or just plain file cache if it doesn't use loopback Dec 13 05:46:53 I assume that 16MB/s is just the average at that point Dec 13 05:47:02 indeed Dec 13 05:47:10 it starts out faster than that, then gets closer to 6-8MB/s Dec 13 05:47:18 well... i don't trust what windows says, this would have to be tested under something more...... reliable :) Dec 13 05:47:32 i think nezbs data is accurate Dec 13 05:47:42 *sigh* Dec 13 05:48:17 * johnx installs LDAP on his zaurus Dec 13 05:50:40 dd if=/dev/zero of=/mnt/d.u.t./xxx bs=10M count=100 Dec 13 05:50:56 add oflag=direct Dec 13 05:51:01 easy like that, no? Dec 13 05:51:02 and it will bypass all caching Dec 13 05:51:43 bah, for 1000M I don't care much but caching. but ok Dec 13 05:53:29 btw a killall -SIGUSR1 dd comes in handy now and then Dec 13 05:54:15 still annoying having to do it, i've often thought about adding a wget-like progressbar to dd Dec 13 05:54:31 looking at the crisis of 2007. Dec 13 05:54:42 i see engineering Dec 13 05:55:26 would love some more codecs Dec 13 05:56:41 okay redeeman, i made it more "reliable" now, i began the file transfer and started the stop watch, when the file transfer was done, i immediately ejected the drive (meaning that there could be no writing after the fact) and stopped the stop watch after it unmounted, this is the data i came up with: http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=734312448+bytes+in+42.778+seconds+in+mebibytes%2Fs Dec 13 05:56:42 redeeman: it actually has. alas only every 5 min or such Dec 13 05:56:52 redeeman is that better? :) Dec 13 05:58:35 Smily: no idea. you tell us. is the file correctly written, or did you just ruin the fs by removing the disk? Dec 13 05:58:41 Smily: well.. kindof, still a few things though, did you check the file was copied entirely after it was ejected? and also, we still don't know if the n900 caches on that end Dec 13 05:58:54 DocScrutinizer-8: i assume he used the windows safe remove Dec 13 05:59:01 i used the windows safe remove Dec 13 05:59:04 hmm ok Dec 13 05:59:09 so i didn't ruin it Dec 13 05:59:55 mmm Dec 13 06:00:01 interesting Dec 13 06:00:05 the installable vim is not very good Dec 13 06:00:24 microlith, could be worse: you could be forced to use ed Dec 13 06:00:34 true Dec 13 06:00:41 or that weird editor the freebsd installer has(if thats not ed) Dec 13 06:00:48 but at least then I wouldn't expect the arrow keys to work Dec 13 06:00:52 redeeman i couldn't eject the drive if it was still writing and the file manager shows the same size on the n900; also the n900 can't cache unknown data in advance and the file has never been on the device before :P Dec 13 06:01:12 Smily: it can cache before it writes to the actual card Dec 13 06:01:32 microlith: not on edlin Dec 13 06:01:54 but how can it transfer the same amount quicker if the connection was slower? Dec 13 06:02:15 Smily: but the connection is usb? so it could be cached before it was written to flash Dec 13 06:02:17 caching doesn't help you get from 6 to 16 Dec 13 06:02:39 it does if you have enough ram on the N900, hell, it could even be using the somewhat large nand swap drive for caching Dec 13 06:02:40 augh, do i have to unplug the cable the next time? heh Dec 13 06:02:47 Smily: that won't make a difference either Dec 13 06:02:52 or do i have Dec 13 06:02:55 er Dec 13 06:02:57 Smily: im suggesting its the n900 itself that may cache, not your windows Dec 13 06:03:08 redeeman, the swap is on the the same card as mydocs, IIRC Dec 13 06:03:11 it can cache 700mb? Dec 13 06:03:19 also yeah Dec 13 06:03:29 johnx: oh, i thought it was on the mtd Dec 13 06:03:31 isn't the small flash just like 256mb? Dec 13 06:04:03 if the swap is that fast... so yeeha ;-P Dec 13 06:04:05 yeah, since nezb complained about high cpu usage, that seems like an interesting thing to see Dec 13 06:04:05 Smily: well i don't know, but its a possibility, else i don't understand why nezb's is slower Dec 13 06:04:22 hmm yeah, high cpu usage Dec 13 06:04:26 some type of inefficiency with /dev/zero? Dec 13 06:04:31 interrupts? Dec 13 06:04:53 oh, he used dd? Dec 13 06:05:51 maybe the usb->flash is at a lower level/more direct? Dec 13 06:06:02 nope, it works directly from linux Dec 13 06:06:05 as gadget mass storage Dec 13 06:06:26 if anything it could be slower, but not much Dec 13 06:06:35 whoa. something is really weird when reading from /dev/zero Dec 13 06:06:45 interresting Dec 13 06:06:49 it returns a 2? Dec 13 06:07:07 johnx: perhaps context switches Dec 13 06:07:11 cat /dev/zero: 000000002(*&$%I quitEOF Dec 13 06:07:22 lol, i was right! Dec 13 06:07:37 that's not healthy Dec 13 06:07:51 the screen tap noise happens like 1-2 seconds after a tap, and the device is so unresponsive I couldn't switch terminals to look at top while it was running Dec 13 06:07:57 wtf?? Dec 13 06:08:08 heh Dec 13 06:09:26 t.m.o slow? Dec 13 06:09:36 woohoo Dec 13 06:09:36 huh, not a problem reading from /dev/zero Dec 13 06:09:38 rubygtk works Dec 13 06:09:45 johnx use pupnik tracker fix maybe Dec 13 06:09:51 oh Dec 13 06:09:54 guess it's just the case of reading /dev/zero and writing to ~/MyDocs Dec 13 06:10:13 aaah, that explains a lot actually :) Dec 13 06:10:37 packaging this thing up into a distributable library might not be so fun Dec 13 06:10:40 heh guys! first of all: use *real* dd! Dec 13 06:10:50 busybox SUCKS Dec 13 06:11:35 lol Dec 13 06:11:48 DocScrutinizer, you think it's not honoring bs=? Dec 13 06:12:23 I really have not the slightest idea what that piece of crap might do Dec 13 06:12:55 I know it sucks primetime Dec 13 06:13:22 * johnx shrugs Dec 13 06:13:32 it certainly makes the device double-plus unresponsive Dec 13 06:15:54 http://www.precentral.net/webgl-nokia-n900-makes-us-hopeful Dec 13 06:15:57 this is cool Dec 13 06:16:03 I'd,suggest a nice -n 1 dd... for that. But wait, crappybox doesn't know nice? Dec 13 06:16:42 it does Dec 13 06:17:30 hmm, depends Dec 13 06:18:04 I know a crappybox that doesn't ;-P Dec 13 06:18:39 sure. it's a compile time option, just like all of busybox Dec 13 06:19:11 yep. that's why I say I have no idea whatsoever what it does. Dec 13 06:19:29 and that's why I *hate* busybox Dec 13 06:20:24 it's not like there's something magical about coreutils that keeps someone from cutting it down to save space Dec 13 06:20:32 it's a botch to run initscripts on 32MB devices Dec 13 06:20:56 smaller machines than that, too ;) Dec 13 06:21:32 never meant to be a decent interactive shell Dec 13 06:22:42 for sure. but they had to save space on the N900 for all the pixmaps that really just couldn't be offloaded to the 32GB vfat fs :) Dec 13 06:23:09 yeah I C Dec 13 06:23:38 grr, the headset that came with N900 jsut got fked up.. only sound from one... Dec 13 06:23:42 shakin hands video first of them Dec 13 06:24:04 and i did nothing but listing music :( Dec 13 06:24:28 heh, i think I blew mine up already too Dec 13 06:24:37 insert jack tightly? Dec 13 06:24:47 duh Dec 13 06:25:02 yep tryd them both on pc and in N900 Dec 13 06:25:09 same result Dec 13 06:25:16 broke the messy flatcable? Dec 13 06:25:24 thers little sound from it tho Dec 13 06:25:39 tzzzz Dec 13 06:25:44 dont seems like the cable Dec 13 06:26:03 you tore or bent it? Dec 13 06:26:06 cuz i checked it no results Dec 13 06:26:12 nope Dec 13 06:26:23 :-( Dec 13 06:26:37 i did just sit and listing to music and bang! Dec 13 06:26:40 freakin Dec 13 06:27:02 kick ass of reseller Dec 13 06:27:12 or nokia Dec 13 06:27:40 haha im gonna whine to support! they have to give me new better ones :( Dec 13 06:27:58 the headset is neither exceptionally great nor special nor expensive Dec 13 06:28:45 nah but i except them to not break after like 3 days and 2 uses :) Dec 13 06:28:46 i found them to be quite nice to have on Dec 13 06:28:49 but on a device that tag I'd expect at least they work Dec 13 06:28:54 compared to the extremely uncomfortable ones SE bundle Dec 13 06:29:13 so yes, they should send you replacement. preferrably better ones Dec 13 06:29:50 well im gonna se what they say :) Dec 13 06:31:05 well, Nokia used to bundle a really horrific pair with the N800/N810 :) Dec 13 06:31:57 umm, my mind refuses to even remember Dec 13 06:32:06 hehe Dec 13 06:32:39 wasn't that the one with micbrick? Dec 13 06:34:06 my mail has been sent! Dec 13 06:34:12 yeah, and the patented earFucker design :) Dec 13 06:34:44 hope the N900 dont suddly break to, haha Dec 13 06:34:57 seems pretty solid to me Dec 13 06:34:58 aaaaaarg Dec 13 06:35:02 yeah Dec 13 06:35:11 ye :) Dec 13 06:35:14 more solid than the N810, and if it's exactly as solid as the N800 I'll be totally thrilled Dec 13 06:35:16 always falls out after 30sec Dec 13 06:36:22 but the accessories dont seems solid :) Dec 13 06:36:43 i know a guys who charger suddly broken to Dec 13 06:36:52 Macer, what movie should I watch? Dec 13 06:37:16 now he has to charge thru the usb->pc which takes years haha Dec 13 06:37:38 * DocScrutinizer-8 scrutinizes charger Dec 13 06:38:11 your charger broken to? Dec 13 06:38:18 hmm. made in china Dec 13 06:38:25 haha Dec 13 06:38:32 *everything* is made in China Dec 13 06:38:36 not (yet) XP Dec 13 06:38:52 those little stickers that say "Made in the USA": those are made in China :) Dec 13 06:38:56 that's what you think Dec 13 06:39:08 lol Dec 13 06:39:19 the only XP part made in USA is the one made by the NSA Dec 13 06:39:22 i like how the N900 says "designed in finland" but not says where its made :o Dec 13 06:39:59 I wonder if Nokia started doing that first, or Apple Dec 13 06:40:05 duh. thought it does Dec 13 06:41:25 made in Korea Dec 13 06:43:57 the n900 charger that came with my phone says "Made in Japan" Dec 13 06:44:01 i found that interesting Dec 13 06:44:08 i thought japan would charge more than a lot of other places Dec 13 06:44:31 mine says china Dec 13 06:45:52 yeah. that's what I know for chargers. Second source OEM. Generally crap Dec 13 06:46:56 Vratha, maybe they share a lot in common with the chargers that some Japanese cell phone maker uses. (but yeah, I'm surprised to see made in Japan on anything these days) Dec 13 06:47:02 what power plug does the charger have? US two pin? (importing my N900 from the states and will need a universal multiplug) Dec 13 06:47:07 hmh, though it charges through the usb port, is the connector a standard usb connector? Dec 13 06:47:13 well, mini-usb Dec 13 06:47:20 or is it the same as the n810, which looks thinner Dec 13 06:47:41 Anouk: i bought mine in the US, and as you can guess, it has the standard 2-pin charger plug Dec 13 06:47:51 great, thanks Dec 13 06:47:55 np Dec 13 06:48:11 my got 2pins also but mines EU Dec 13 06:48:12 it's micro usb standard B type Dec 13 06:48:54 N810 used microbUSB-b as well Dec 13 06:49:04 yep Dec 13 06:49:24 hmhm Dec 13 06:49:28 they even come with absolutely same usb cable Dec 13 06:49:34 any tmobile n900 users here? are you getting your internet traffic routed through kansas as well, even if you're in a state 1,000 miles away? Dec 13 06:49:48 Vratha: heh. i live in kansas =( Dec 13 06:49:50 it's like tmobile is saying "your data is in kansas again" Dec 13 06:50:01 i want it to say "you're not in kansas anymore" Dec 13 06:50:06 Vratha, haven't tried a traceroute or similar yet Dec 13 06:50:20 if not mistaken, nokia does include a conversion cable from the older, small-round-pin charger to microusb, correct? (so at least i can use my same car charger!) Dec 13 06:50:24 Vratha: i have tmobile, and live in kansas city. and i dont have a data plan Dec 13 06:50:32 johnx: oh, you just need to get the external IP and do a geoip lookup on it. you can get your ip from speedtest.net or somthing Dec 13 06:50:33 and honestly I don't care Dec 13 06:50:42 pwnguin: haha, ok Dec 13 06:50:51 hmhm I guess other connectors I have are miniB, not microB Dec 13 06:51:56 do they make standardized microb car chargers? Dec 13 06:52:23 the cool thing about the old-style-to-micro-usb converter they include is that you can plug in any 5V source to it. so it doesn't require any "USB certified charger" weirdness Dec 13 06:52:38 ahh Dec 13 06:52:42 nice Dec 13 06:54:13 is the secondary camera supposed to be crap? Dec 13 06:54:40 yes, ita for videocalls Dec 13 06:54:58 like, im not even sure it's good for that Dec 13 06:55:01 pwnguin, yes. just pretend it's not there Dec 13 06:55:04 haha Dec 13 06:55:30 its good if you wanna look like pixelart Dec 13 06:55:47 or if you just rolled out of bed and need to be on a video conference Dec 13 06:55:52 pwnguin: it's good enough for some basic video chat, but it's not even working yet Dec 13 06:56:09 heh, well the *camera* works fine Dec 13 06:56:14 the mirror app has a warning that it's dependant on hardware and firmware revision; wondering if that means theres a firmware fix planned Dec 13 06:56:24 but nothing really uses it, except "mirror" I think Dec 13 06:56:50 I'll give it good odds that it's the same cam as the N8x0 had, which makes it just crap Dec 13 06:56:52 when is nokia planning to release a software update? i heard sometime this month Dec 13 06:56:59 but i couldn't find any announcement Dec 13 06:57:13 Vratha, everytime someone asks when it's out, they push it back a month :) Dec 13 06:57:20 end of this month is what i heard Dec 13 06:57:26 antezz: ah, cool Dec 13 06:57:33 pwnguin: use a caradapter with a A type receptacle Dec 13 06:58:33 damn, it's kinda cold outside Dec 13 06:58:39 johnx: isn't it weird to include the hw then, if its worthless? Dec 13 06:58:41 johnx: you seen any user manual or specs for those freaky adapters? Dec 13 06:58:54 Vratha, it puts me in "TWENTYNINE PINES, CA" :) Dec 13 06:59:21 Vratha: just a hint: geoip aint gonna do shit for cellular connections Dec 13 06:59:22 DocScrutinizer, the old-style -> micro-usb ones? nope, but I already "tested" mine with a third party 5V source :> Dec 13 06:59:34 johnx: is that far from you? Dec 13 06:59:36 pwnguin: johnx front cam might improve with better driver Dec 13 07:00:25 Vratha: probably, the ip pool is allowed to migrate between towers etc, so any ip -> location mapping is bogus Dec 13 07:01:21 pwnguin: a firmware fix is already done, just not released yet. Dec 13 07:01:26 DocScrutinizer, once you denoise it, you'd be left with like 10 pixels Dec 13 07:01:44 Vratha, 1300+ miles Dec 13 07:01:57 the more interesting thing would probably be traceroute ;) Dec 13 07:02:38 johnsu01: change exposure time and ASA and get much better S/N Dec 13 07:02:44 pwnguin: your local ip would travel through pools. the external IP will most likely stay with the same tower. lending credence to this fact is that my external IP is always in a particular range, and it's always in the same geographical region: i.e. 1000 miles away Dec 13 07:02:45 err Dec 13 07:02:56 johnx: hehe, if you can do one; i couldn't get a reliable trace Dec 13 07:02:59 johnx: ^ Dec 13 07:03:28 johnx: what was your download speed like? mine varies between 650 and 1100 kbps... usually around 750 kbps Dec 13 07:03:40 on AT&T i could usually get 3300 kbps Dec 13 07:03:46 give or take 200 Dec 13 07:04:31 geoIP is handwaving always. Dec 13 07:04:33 DocScrutinizer, the camera image on the N8x0 never improved over the course of 2 years. but maybe people are seeing worse results on the N900 than the N8x0? haven't tried mirror yet Dec 13 07:04:57 really, i think it's been pretty accurate Dec 13 07:05:00 i got 100 mb wlan connection :) Dec 13 07:05:07 i doubt it's going to be off by 1000+ miles Dec 13 07:05:21 I think N900 frontcam is even factor 10 worse than N810 Dec 13 07:05:29 antezz: yes, so do i Dec 13 07:05:33 I saw 1Mb/s or a little more in a speed test. most of the time it feels quick enough Dec 13 07:05:37 101 mbps actually :) Dec 13 07:05:48 johnx: ah, okay. Dec 13 07:06:04 johnx: thanks for the info. that must just be the usual speed of tmo Dec 13 07:06:10 suck Dec 13 07:06:28 dunno. they'll have good coverage areas and bad Dec 13 07:06:42 yeah. maybe when i drive into nyc it'll be better Dec 13 07:06:47 johnx: isn't it strange mplayer doesn't know any brightness etc options for frontcam? Dec 13 07:06:51 at least where I get signal I get service Dec 13 07:06:54 i looked though, and i'm in one of the "awesomely covered zones" Dec 13 07:06:56 http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=42952&id=1496065002&l=f5497054df Dec 13 07:07:19 but it's funny, because my phone can't maintain a strong 3g connection if the wind blows the wrong way Dec 13 07:07:31 i guess at&t out here just has better coverage (more dropped calls though) Dec 13 07:07:36 johnx: I guess a better driver can do miracles Dec 13 07:07:39 DocScrutinizer-8, dunno. mplayer's v4l2 is aimed at recording TV, isn't it Dec 13 07:08:13 johnx: so what? Dec 13 07:08:26 sooo, maybe it doesn't expose brightness? Dec 13 07:08:36 even if the underlying v4l2 driver supports it Dec 13 07:08:39 it does for maincam Dec 13 07:08:51 ah, well that was the part I was missing ;) Dec 13 07:09:44 not all you'd expect - like flashlight control... but at least basic pict ctrl Dec 13 07:10:10 nuttin like that for crapcam Dec 13 07:10:37 heh. maybe the N800 camera design would have been a better choice for the N900 (one camera on a swiveling stalk) Dec 13 07:10:49 looks to me like 6400ASA, 1uS EXP TIME Dec 13 07:11:03 (and yes, I know that it had tons of problems) Dec 13 07:11:25 anyone know if there's a maemo package that has the "file" command? Dec 13 07:11:31 i can't find it Dec 13 07:11:37 ah. much worse. yeah that really might be fixable in software Dec 13 07:11:54 I'd guess coreutils Dec 13 07:12:04 DocScrutinizer-8: thanks; i'll check it out Dec 13 07:12:05 if there's such a pkg Dec 13 07:12:10 jeez. what the heck happened to that thing? how do you make the N8x0 camera *worse*? Dec 13 07:12:24 DocScrutinizer-8: i don't see it :-/ Dec 13 07:12:38 in appman? Dec 13 07:12:50 apt-cache Dec 13 07:12:53 or shell & apt? Dec 13 07:13:00 hmm. no idea Dec 13 07:13:09 you got tools repo? Dec 13 07:13:19 no, how do i add that one? Dec 13 07:13:30 a word of warning: doing that might end with you reflashing Dec 13 07:13:30 i have Extras/-testing/-devel Dec 13 07:13:36 devel is disabled right now Dec 13 07:13:45 check wiki. devtools/maemo5 or such Dec 13 07:13:47 eh, i'm a software dev. reflashing ain't no thing Dec 13 07:14:04 s/might/will/ Dec 13 07:14:04 johnx meant: a word of warning: doing that will end with you reflashing Dec 13 07:14:30 not too worried about it Dec 13 07:15:22 johnx: heh *will*. how long does it take? Dec 13 07:16:39 if you go and install coreutils with apt, it'll conflict with busybox, ending with both in a partially installed state. I'd bet dollars to donuts on that one...*unless* someone has repackaged it for extras so it meshes well with busybox Dec 13 07:17:49 duh. messed up alternatives? Dec 13 07:18:07 there is no coreutils in tools Dec 13 07:18:17 anyways, you want the package called 'file' Dec 13 07:18:42 which is available in extras (or testing/devel) Dec 13 07:18:59 sweet Dec 13 07:19:01 thanks Dec 13 07:19:07 swore i searched for that earlier Dec 13 07:19:12 maybe not though Dec 13 07:19:19 so where's coreutils then, johnx ? Dec 13 07:19:32 SDK or Tools probably Dec 13 07:19:50 I think it's one of those cases where "upgrading" from busybox to coreutils is just not something they put any effort into making work right Dec 13 07:20:28 bah. I'll hammer it to work Dec 13 07:20:33 i really just wanted the "file" program Dec 13 07:20:42 how hard can it be? Dec 13 07:20:45 that way i could get some info and figure out what cross compiler i need to setup for prboom Dec 13 07:20:47 DocScrutinizer-8, I thought that too. :) Dec 13 07:20:52 maybe their sdk has all i need though Dec 13 07:20:59 heya johnx Dec 13 07:21:11 for *just* coreutils, maybe not too bad, until you find some script that relies on busybox behavior ;) Dec 13 07:21:14 hallo RST38h Dec 13 07:21:16 I was just reading http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-developers/2008-November/017675.html Dec 13 07:21:22 thanks for the fbreader build, BTW Dec 13 07:22:02 oh, btw, i noticed the "degree" button on the n900 doesn't work Dec 13 07:22:05 eeek. which bastard script might rely on crapybox? Dec 13 07:22:05 on the virtual keyboard Dec 13 07:22:31 DocScrutinizer-8, any of them. fancy playing russian roulette? Dec 13 07:23:00 you have to die for it to be russian Dec 13 07:23:09 incredible. "we assume it throws error on that option" ? Dec 13 07:23:13 Vratha, even if you hit degree, then space? Dec 13 07:23:43 oh, i get it then Dec 13 07:23:47 DocScrutinizer-8, even good scripters fall into bashisms. Is it any surprise that people on a deadline fall into ashisms or busyboxisms? Dec 13 07:24:11 be default it's for adding that degree symbol above a character Dec 13 07:24:20 but on the other keys, it will just put in the char. just another bug i guess Dec 13 07:24:30 Vratha, not a bug. :) Dec 13 07:24:33 it is Dec 13 07:24:35 I'm not aware of a single extended capability of busybox Dec 13 07:24:39 just poorly defined behavior Dec 13 07:24:55 right, but poorly defined (i.e. not consistent) is a bug Dec 13 07:25:21 Vratha: there's just one line of deadkeys Dec 13 07:25:31 yeah, they should probably be separated more clearly Dec 13 07:25:39 oh, all of them in that row are like that? Dec 13 07:25:57 DocScrutinizer, how about parsing output of ps? Dec 13 07:26:04 Vratha, yeah Dec 13 07:26:31 weird Dec 13 07:26:40 johnx: ouch Dec 13 07:26:50 heh, i tried keys from every other row except that one when i found out the "degree" symbol didn't work Dec 13 07:26:53 fsck Dec 13 07:26:54 so i didn't notice that Dec 13 07:27:08 moo johnx Dec 13 07:27:56 DocScrutinizer, there aren't going to be a *ton* of these problems, but they are there for sure. that's why we ended up starting Mer :) Maemo isn't quite a sane base for a "real" linux distro, but the GUI bits, and some of the concepts work very well for handhelds Dec 13 07:28:32 johnx: hehe Dec 13 07:28:34 johnsu01, yeah, Carsten Munk started the Mer project. ;) Dec 13 07:31:02 Stskeeps started mer because of crapybox? nice :-D Dec 13 07:31:52 I was just reading about that stuff today because I was trying to port the debian package of nethack, which depends on debianutils, which depended on coreutils.. Dec 13 07:32:01 not *just* for that reason Dec 13 07:32:25 but if you think that once you get coreutils and bash installed everything will magically be alright, you might be in for a surprise :) Dec 13 07:32:37 yay, i rebooted and got 60mb of rootfs back \o/ Dec 13 07:32:41 johnsu01, looked at mud? Dec 13 07:32:48 anyway, you scared me enough to make me consider a /binplus Dec 13 07:33:01 yeah, that's a good way to handle it Dec 13 07:33:07 or /opt/bin ;) Dec 13 07:33:11 johnx: no, is that a nethack? I installed Vulture's Eye Dec 13 07:33:36 johnsu01, mud-builder helps you port debian debs more easily Dec 13 07:33:48 not sure if it's updated for fremantle though ... Dec 13 07:33:51 johnx: ah, okay. I did get nethack working eventually Dec 13 07:34:00 ah, cool Dec 13 07:34:06 nethack-console I mean, which is what I was after. Dec 13 07:34:50 Vratha the keys work the same way as they do on computers (like you have to press space after certain characters because they can be combined with other characters) Dec 13 07:35:57 only if you got a deadkeys kbd layout Dec 13 07:36:28 well, i was talking about how it's usually set by default Dec 13 07:36:35 which I don't even remeber if it's default or not Dec 13 07:36:36 some USians are very confused by the whole dead-keys thing ;) Dec 13 07:37:11 alright then, i was talking about how it's usually set by default on windows for my native language :P Dec 13 07:38:09 johnx: you never guess how confused *I* was when I accidentally installed it on some of my customers' boxes Dec 13 07:38:29 :D Dec 13 07:38:39 oh man, that's gotta be a real head scratcher Dec 13 07:39:03 morning Dec 13 07:39:20 yeah. try to talk someone thru a few simple cmdlines on the phone Dec 13 07:39:58 i got my kernel to boot, but it seems to first ingnore some of the boot options and then panic Dec 13 07:40:06 you easily might lose your control and a customer Dec 13 07:40:26 johnx: "some"? try 99% Dec 13 07:40:44 heh. probably about as confusing as when one of the blacklists we subscribe to blacklisted a 192.168.x.x address, causing *one* machine to fail to send mail Dec 13 07:40:52 timeless_mbp, scripts with ashisms/bbisms? Dec 13 07:41:02 lol Dec 13 07:41:05 americans unfamiliar w/ deadkeys Dec 13 07:41:20 Smily: each locale has its own keylayout Dec 13 07:41:23 yup. the N900 is the first deadkey layout I've ever used Dec 13 07:41:27 some locales use deadkeys because they need to Dec 13 07:41:35 some important locales for important markets do not Dec 13 07:41:42 but on the symbol board, everyone gets to play with deadkeys ;) Dec 13 07:41:43 and some people designing software are incompetent Dec 13 07:43:16 anyway the last row of `a ´a etc is absolutely redundant and braindamaged on virtkbd Dec 13 07:44:44 DocScrutinizer: eh? Dec 13 07:45:04 timeless_mbp interesting, i didn't know that other (US) layouts didn't have deadkeys :) Dec 13 07:45:11 i have c-macron, n-tilde, inverted-!, inverted-?, 1/2, ^2, ^3 Dec 13 07:45:19 we don't believe in accents of any kind :) Dec 13 07:45:21 Smily: there's a layout which does Dec 13 07:45:27 but it's never the default Dec 13 07:45:31 because os vendors aren't crazy Dec 13 07:45:50 note: os vendors Dec 13 07:45:50 timeless_mbp: oh, so my "layout" is different then Dec 13 07:45:51 timeless_mbp yeah, interesting Dec 13 07:45:57 nokia doesn't sell an os Dec 13 07:46:11 timeless_mbp: not even Maemo? Dec 13 07:46:17 not for sle Dec 13 07:46:19 it's bundled Dec 13 07:46:25 DocScrutinizer-8: mind you, c-macron (?) is totally useless to me, since i don't write french Dec 13 07:46:26 how did a non-Nokia product ship with Maemo then? Dec 13 07:46:42 they took the open source pieces and built a ui around it Dec 13 07:46:49 (a rather good ui, i might add) Dec 13 07:46:52 that's not Maemo then... :/ Dec 13 07:47:00 it might be better :) Dec 13 07:47:07 the next 3 are all important to me when i write in spanish :) Dec 13 07:47:09 that's not saying much Dec 13 07:47:11 * luke-jr runs Dec 13 07:47:19 :) Dec 13 07:47:29 the other 3 are well.... they can be useful even to normal americans Dec 13 07:47:32 timeless_mbp: does Maemo5 have 'user' hard-coded everywhere still? Dec 13 07:47:47 luke-jr: i'm pretty sure i don't want to look Dec 13 07:47:50 lol Dec 13 07:48:53 luke-jr: easy to test, no? rename in passwd and ~ Dec 13 07:49:11 DocScrutinizer-8: i think it requires a device Dec 13 07:49:22 and it isn't easy to test, you'd need to thoroughly use the product Dec 13 07:49:29 oh. sorry Dec 13 07:57:25 anyone have a .is_audio_player file for n900? Dec 13 07:59:21 im guessing .sounds is the media dir Dec 13 07:59:44 good guess :) Dec 13 08:05:17 well that should keep the network busy Dec 13 08:05:35 looks like hal already knows what to do Dec 13 08:08:38 I wonder if I'll find I killed my system when I just entered a password for user user Dec 13 08:10:23 anyone tried the music player with a substantially large library? Dec 13 08:10:39 like 8GB or so? Dec 13 08:10:42 sure Dec 13 08:10:58 just curious if it performs well Dec 13 08:11:00 scrolling is annoying Dec 13 08:11:07 other than that, it's fine Dec 13 08:12:02 johnx: http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/source/osso-rss-feed-reader/data/osso-rss-feed-reader.conf#4 Dec 13 08:12:13 http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/source/upstart/debian/event.d/system-services/rcS-late#24 Dec 13 08:12:25 http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/source/ohm/Makefile.am#49 Dec 13 08:12:42 * johnx sighs Dec 13 08:12:44 http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/source/rtcom-eventlogger/data/rtcom-eventlogger.conf#3 Dec 13 08:12:48 actually scrolling is even a pita in contacts, sms etc Dec 13 08:12:52 http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/source/osso-chess-ui/src/osso_chess_backup.conf#4 Dec 13 08:13:07 ... Dec 13 08:13:36 most of these are text files of course Dec 13 08:13:44 holy crap. that lowmem_allowed_uids thing is a funny hack Dec 13 08:13:53 timeless_mbp: user? Dec 13 08:14:49 DocScrutinizer-8: you would prefer a finish word for 'user'? Dec 13 08:15:13 s/ini/inni/ Dec 13 08:15:14 timeless_mbp meant: DocScrutinnizer-8: you would prefer a finish word for 'user'? Dec 13 08:15:20 timeless_mbp: nah, just wondering what's the srccode pointers are Dec 13 08:15:34 DocScrutinizer-8: yes, search for 'home/user' Dec 13 08:15:43 eeeew Dec 13 08:16:52 actually I already considered to rename user to my own name. Good I was reluctant Dec 13 08:18:10 why rename your user? Dec 13 08:18:19 a user name is a system local attribute Dec 13 08:18:30 .ssh/config lets you pick another... Dec 13 08:18:43 hm, is it possible to change the usb connection type while it's connected (ex. from mass to pc suite), if not, is it possible with an update or not possible at all? Dec 13 08:19:00 Smily: safely? Dec 13 08:19:08 uh, yes? Dec 13 08:19:12 do you understand how mass storage works? Dec 13 08:20:08 timeless_mbp i mean, as safe as unplugging a cable Dec 13 08:20:39 well, you can rmmod the mass storage module and insmod pcsuite or whatever Dec 13 08:20:53 it's absolutely rude and well... say hello to fat corruption Dec 13 08:21:01 but that's your risk Dec 13 08:21:16 but is it worse than unplugging and replugging? Dec 13 08:21:21 nope Dec 13 08:21:27 which is what i'm doing right now to change modes Dec 13 08:21:34 well Dec 13 08:21:42 if you eject safely from the host Dec 13 08:21:45 that's better :) Dec 13 08:21:56 yeah Dec 13 08:22:03 btw, pc suite has a way to do file management Dec 13 08:22:08 you could use it Dec 13 08:22:14 but it doesn't appear to be working for me Dec 13 08:22:29 it's blank when i open it Dec 13 08:22:37 what host os? Dec 13 08:22:40 win7 Dec 13 08:26:25 yuo know, it pains me to say it, but the exchange RSS folder thing is really handy Dec 13 08:27:49 hmm. looks like there's an rss2imap tool Dec 13 08:28:46 exchange rss? Dec 13 08:29:31 http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/search?string=home%2Fuser&find=conf Dec 13 08:29:35 fwiw Dec 13 08:29:54 timeless_mbp: (why rename user) well probably just because my brain also has some notion about how my homedir is call - hardcoded ;-D Dec 13 08:30:25 timeless_mbp: of course you're right Dec 13 08:30:28 heh, your brain needs an upgrade Dec 13 08:30:30 your homedir is ~ :) Dec 13 08:30:52 timeless_mbp: outlook doubles as an rss reader; each feed is a folder of messages with read/unread status Dec 13 08:30:57 mine can be /home/timeless /export/home/timeless /Users/timeless c:\Users\timeless Dec 13 08:31:14 pwnguin: is it an outlook feature or a server feature? Dec 13 08:31:19 (thunderbird has had that for ages fwiw) Dec 13 08:31:28 apparently this is stored on exchange, because it shows up on my phone as well Dec 13 08:31:43 interesting Dec 13 08:31:50 if you think about it Dec 13 08:32:02 its not much different than rss2email + procmail Dec 13 08:32:17 except that i'm afraid of procmail :) Dec 13 08:32:20 sure Dec 13 08:32:24 terribly afraid Dec 13 08:32:36 or even just a simple filter rule Dec 13 08:33:18 imap handles the rss spec fairly well Dec 13 08:33:38 title->subject Dec 13 08:33:47 enclosure->attachment Dec 13 08:34:13 GUID-> ..... X-GUID Dec 13 08:36:47 i wonder how google feed reader works Dec 13 08:37:06 how to make video call by n900 Dec 13 08:37:19 jiajia: out of the box, you can't Dec 13 08:37:34 timeless_mbp: so there is no way i can do it Dec 13 08:37:35 you can use a third party app or wait for an upgrade Dec 13 08:37:46 o hai Dec 13 08:37:50 s/upgrade/update/ Dec 13 08:37:52 timeless_mbp meant: you can use a third party app or wait for an update Dec 13 08:37:52 timeless_mbp: okey thanks man Dec 13 08:38:31 guys, video chat? from n800 to desktop. the googles do nothing. help me out here? Dec 13 08:39:01 Livingroom: wait for the third party Dec 13 08:39:03 gizmo Dec 13 08:39:21 jiajia what? Dec 13 08:39:24 Livingroom: historically you could use gizmo Dec 13 08:39:38 wasnt gizmo bought by gtalk though? Dec 13 08:39:43 i upgraded from n770 to n810 last night!! :) Dec 13 08:39:45 gtalk isn't a company Dec 13 08:40:01 well, google Dec 13 08:40:14 yes Dec 13 08:40:16 timeless_mbp, and yet the gtalk guys probably have a bigger budget than my whole company O_o; Dec 13 08:40:31 johnx, hmm so you have a user password setup on the n900? and you tried rebooting etc and it all worked? Dec 13 08:40:56 ruskie, yeah. been working since oct 9th or so that way Dec 13 08:41:11 johnx, touched the user shell any? Dec 13 08:41:14 johnx: what asks for the password? Dec 13 08:41:20 timeless_mbp, ssh Dec 13 08:41:33 but not the ui? Dec 13 08:41:40 of course not Dec 13 08:41:46 otherwise, it would fail horribly :) Dec 13 08:41:59 ruskie, as in, switched to bash? nah Dec 13 08:42:10 johnx, well if you ever get the inclination don't :) Dec 13 08:42:20 apparently in doesn't like a different shell there Dec 13 08:42:24 yeah, that fails pretty badly Dec 13 08:42:30 knew that from a long time back :) Dec 13 08:42:33 ahh Dec 13 08:42:40 how'd you change the shell? Dec 13 08:42:43 only learned that after 5 or so flashes Dec 13 08:42:45 symlink or chsh? Dec 13 08:43:05 I just made a zsh terminal desktop file :) Dec 13 08:43:10 and use that instead of the regular one Dec 13 08:43:11 good call :) Dec 13 08:43:20 of course I loose the new terminal functionality Dec 13 08:43:27 since that keeps calling the old one Dec 13 08:43:30 loose => lose Dec 13 08:43:45 yeah, loose is definitely at least as good as lose :) Dec 13 08:44:24 so, guessing no video chat then Dec 13 08:44:38 Livingroom, on the N800? Dec 13 08:44:47 Livingroom: it's possible, but if you're lazy, you'll wait Dec 13 08:44:54 iirc new accounts is disabled for gizmo Dec 13 08:44:56 i'm moderately lazy Dec 13 08:45:07 whoa. no new gizmo accounts Dec 13 08:45:08 bummer Dec 13 08:45:33 uhm, sip video works, right? Dec 13 08:45:48 yes Dec 13 08:45:59 the trick there is finding a compatible desktop client Dec 13 08:46:05 ekiga? Dec 13 08:46:08 nokia had but i believe dropped a beta Dec 13 08:46:31 pwnguin: it's the codec not the transport Dec 13 08:46:39 .. that's the problem Dec 13 08:47:11 whats the codec? Dec 13 08:47:20 * timeless_mbp shrugs Dec 13 08:48:23 which makes me remember m. deboer was about to consider adding video to twinkle some q.tyears ago. Should ask what's his decision on that Dec 13 08:49:05 err s/q.t/1.5 Dec 13 08:50:27 Livingroom: the codec has to be same and is negotiated between both parties. Or was that "what's *A* codec"? Dec 13 08:52:29 doc: it was whats *the* codec as in h.264 or whatever Dec 13 08:52:42 Which n900 accessories are must-have? Dec 13 08:52:47 I have protective foil and battery loading cable for car Dec 13 08:52:48 hmm, seems it depends Dec 13 08:53:02 usually h.263, but who knows what nokia picked to include Dec 13 08:53:43 anyone using qemacs here? I'm running qemacs with --font-size from xterm but it isn't changing the font size Dec 13 08:54:01 nokia? where? Dec 13 08:54:30 err, does that dialer... o.O Dec 13 08:54:36 or whoever's responsible for SIP Dec 13 08:55:00 are there holder for bicycle and/or car? Dec 13 08:55:09 battery loading for bicycle would be great (with dynamo) Dec 13 08:55:12 hmm I wasn't aware that the jog dial for sound also changes font sizes in terminal Dec 13 08:55:13 pwnguin: SIP doesn't suggest any particular codec Dec 13 08:55:58 DocScrutinizer-8: the SIP app on this n900 phone, sorr Dec 13 08:55:58 y Dec 13 08:56:02 http://www.etsy.com/view_listing.php?listing_id=6877937 Dec 13 08:56:08 this is cool.. Dec 13 08:56:37 how many percents would 2 AA batteries load the N900 up? Dec 13 08:56:41 not much, or? Dec 13 08:57:11 well, there's transmission and conversion loss Dec 13 08:57:25 but batteries are rated in mAh Dec 13 08:57:36 pwnguin: create a dialog (make a call) between two N900 and trace with wireshark. it will tell you what codecs are offered in sip Dec 13 08:57:54 in SIP SDP even Dec 13 08:58:15 i dont have a wireshark wifi mitm setup Dec 13 08:58:25 or a 2nd phone :P Dec 13 08:58:54 heh, or just call your desktop running ekiga and flip through ekiga's settings to disable/enable codecs Dec 13 08:59:03 pwnguin: dont find any mAh value on my batteries Dec 13 08:59:22 Markus23: you can usually find that info from the manufacturer Dec 13 08:59:36 lemme go grab some energizer rechargables Dec 13 08:59:43 alkaline AAs don't usually have an mAh rating Dec 13 09:00:03 on rechargeables it's between 1500 and 2000 or so most of the time (I think) Dec 13 09:00:39 and whats the mAh of the n900 with the included akku? Dec 13 09:00:41 my rechargables claim 2500mAh Dec 13 09:01:03 Markus23: you could open the case and find out, it's listed right on the battery ;) Dec 13 09:01:07 or look up the part number Dec 13 09:01:37 my akku of my laptop has only 4400 mAh, can't really believe that a AA has 2500 mAh Dec 13 09:02:13 i dont understand this phrase akku Dec 13 09:02:42 akku == rechargeable battery Dec 13 09:02:43 about 1350 mAh in n900? Dec 13 09:02:59 guaqua: how did that come about? Dec 13 09:03:01 in finnish and german, at least Dec 13 09:03:03 akku may be german, is accu better understandable? Dec 13 09:03:22 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accumulator Dec 13 09:03:39 "an apparatus for storing energy or power" Dec 13 09:03:51 dynamo of bicycle seems not to be suitable to load n900 Dec 13 09:04:05 the voltage varies too greatly Dec 13 09:04:10 no duh Dec 13 09:04:19 (but have not tested) Dec 13 09:04:25 you might be able to voltage regulate it Dec 13 09:04:38 Markus23: US it's all just battery. and your laptop battery has most likely 10 times the voltage of a single AA cell Dec 13 09:06:22 Markus23: my duracell alkalines are rated 1500mAh Dec 13 09:06:45 for comparison. rechargables are lower voltage though, 1.2V vs 1.5 Dec 13 09:06:51 pwnguin: Markus23 please be *extremely* careful with DIY for USB chargers. USB is rated like max 6V, and usually doesn't take higher surges without bbq the device Dec 13 09:07:24 DocScrutinizer-8: oh, im not crazy enough to try it Dec 13 09:07:52 you guys are stil here :o Dec 13 09:08:20 DocScrutinizer-8: plus its like 39F here. biking is not an option during the winter Dec 13 09:09:18 ok, so the only option is to have a n900 accu on reserve Dec 13 09:09:30 man, i don't know what my ISP is doing, but i like it Dec 13 09:09:32 * DocScrutinizer-8 watching like 50mm snowflakes. Hates snow and cold Dec 13 09:09:42 is it possible to use a 1500mAh accu for n900? Dec 13 09:09:55 i'm getting speeds of 115 - 120 Mbps now Dec 13 09:10:10 or is there a hardware reason that nokia put the 1350 mAh in it? Dec 13 09:10:25 i guess they couldn't let that little town in Waterloo, IA beat them :) Dec 13 09:10:27 Markus23: professional built systems can probably regulate the surges with diodes, capacitors and whatnot Dec 13 09:10:45 Markus23: could be, could be just a space reason Dec 13 09:12:10 pwnguin: not that easy. please do not even mention this to non EE persons Dec 13 09:12:18 heh Dec 13 09:12:51 it's a sure way to kill a usb-powered device Dec 13 09:12:57 DocScrutinizer-8: by professional i mean, built and manufactured by EEs Dec 13 09:12:59 not etsy Dec 13 09:13:21 an extra battery unit would be nice to have Dec 13 09:13:43 with capacity to enable maybe 2-3 extra days Dec 13 09:13:58 there are voltage stabilizer directly in one "chip" Dec 13 09:14:05 you don't have to do the circuit yourself Dec 13 09:14:08 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voltage_stabilizer Dec 13 09:14:20 I thought it was the voltage that kills the device... not the current since the current is just what can be drawn Dec 13 09:14:27 we killed quite some FR with "professional" carchargers "made in China". Start motor -> Freerunner fried Dec 13 09:14:37 on a side note I have a mintyboost and used it to charge various usb devices and even the n95 Dec 13 09:14:44 Markus23: lets just say what you're attempting to do is a warranty voiding manuver Dec 13 09:15:05 ruskie: absolutely correct Dec 13 09:15:09 DocScrutinizer-8, most car chalcgers I've heard about say: do not have it plugged in when starting Dec 13 09:15:34 ruskie: though for USB2 chargers not even that is completely true Dec 13 09:15:47 Markus23: zener diodes can fail given sufficiently out of range voltage Dec 13 09:16:32 I wonder if the mintyboost will even be able to charge the n900 Dec 13 09:16:42 since it only outputs 100mAh constant Dec 13 09:17:07 I'll have to give it a try Dec 13 09:17:36 erm mA even Dec 13 09:17:39 sans the h Dec 13 09:17:43 ruskie: will take ages if it charges at all Dec 13 09:17:46 gah still to early Dec 13 09:18:18 DocScrutinizer-8, well supposedly it's more efficient than some of the 500mA or so chargers Dec 13 09:18:26 I'll have to give it a try Dec 13 09:18:43 ruskie: what version do you have? Dec 13 09:18:45 ruskie: more efficient??? Dec 13 09:18:51 pwnguin, v2 Dec 13 09:18:58 http://www.linear.com/pc/productDetail.jsp?navId=H0,C1,C1003,C1042,C1031,C1060,P1029 Dec 13 09:19:06 DocScrutinizer-8, less wasted power Dec 13 09:19:14 # 5V at 600mA or 12V at 120mA from 2-Cell Supply Dec 13 09:19:39 ruskie: the device itself may waste >100mA while charging Dec 13 09:20:01 erm v1.2 even Dec 13 09:20:45 any other accessories besides power related which are worth giving a thought? Dec 13 09:21:08 Nearly all USB-charging devices and any device that charges with 5V power (up to 250mA+ 400mA+ with v2.0 of the kit) can be used. <-- hmmm ok so I might be wrong on that one Dec 13 09:21:21 and I don't mean a telescope *lol* http://shop.brando.com/nokia-n97-mobile-phone-telescope_p03569c1059d009.html Dec 13 09:21:44 nuts, i was gonna mention it Dec 13 09:21:53 bluetooth keyboard? Dec 13 09:22:39 * ruskie is testing how long his n900 will last while running xmms2 Dec 13 09:23:07 mmh, with the keyboard you loose a lot of mobility features :-) Dec 13 09:23:16 I think I will prefer vnc Dec 13 09:23:20 lol Dec 13 09:23:28 * ruskie waits for a N900 keyboard with dock Dec 13 09:23:36 or have to live with the keyboard of N900 Dec 13 09:23:46 (when not at home) Dec 13 09:23:57 something like: Dec 13 09:24:00 ###+++### Dec 13 09:24:00 ######### Dec 13 09:24:01 Markus23: OMG! A penis extension for a mobile phone! Dec 13 09:24:03 thinkoutside stowaway is nice Dec 13 09:24:08 whece the +++ is the n900 snugled in Dec 13 09:24:24 and the rest a keyboard Dec 13 09:24:38 and in shuld actually lock it in place Dec 13 09:24:39 cool ruskie Dec 13 09:24:48 ruskie: how bout a full on KVM via usb? Dec 13 09:24:50 and power it Dec 13 09:25:03 pupnik, yeah that should be in as well :) Dec 13 09:25:10 pwnguin, I just like to dream Dec 13 09:25:32 ive been thinking about building a car doc Dec 13 09:25:47 but something like a 6" sized tablet could be used as a base design Dec 13 09:25:52 ive seen a few people build carputers for my model of car Dec 13 09:26:48 normally they put a screen on the dash and route it to a glovebox or trunk Dec 13 09:27:06 is this a good review? http://www.mobile-review.com/review/nokia-maemo5-en.shtml#content Dec 13 09:28:44 > http://www.doctorhousingbubble.com/fha-loans-the-choice-of-housing-comrades-how-government-backed-loans-are-creating-another-problem-for-the-housing-market/ Dec 13 09:28:44 waaah. mildew all over the pavement Dec 13 09:29:12 ow pastefail Dec 13 09:29:32 pupnik: second political pastefail in the last 2 days :P Dec 13 09:29:35 ruskie: seen konttoris project for a game xontrolleer shell for n900 Dec 13 09:30:18 this is econ Dec 13 09:30:58 shibby dibby doodah Dec 13 09:31:32 Markus23: it mentions the n920, which afaik is a fake Dec 13 09:32:13 pwnguin: ok, good to know Dec 13 09:33:24 i'm hopin' they get portrait mode working for most of their stuff soon (without a hack) Dec 13 09:33:28 from the rumor mill i thought nokia where only launching 1 maemo device next year, rumored to be a device with no keyboard and 8mp camera? Dec 13 09:33:31 the phone would be a lot more usable in one hand that way Dec 13 09:33:50 oh, and the number of openGL ES programs available can be counted on one finger Dec 13 09:34:17 Vratha, thought they were working on that, browser working in portrait for example Dec 13 09:34:20 pwnguin: this bounce application + quake 3 Dec 13 09:34:28 cant be counted on one finger *fg* Dec 13 09:34:37 kynky: that's what i've heard. i hope they get most of the apps done Dec 13 09:34:38 is quake3 available? Dec 13 09:34:40 openarena , duke nukem Dec 13 09:34:59 i played q3a already on n900 Dec 13 09:35:00 i just want prboom Dec 13 09:35:06 pwnguin: i have seen a video of it, don't know of repository Dec 13 09:35:44 its in extras-devel , i have put q3a data files on fat32 partition and symlinked Dec 13 09:36:43 seems like repartioning the device isn't very common? Dec 13 09:37:11 nope, but guides are out there Dec 13 09:37:35 tech review qt6 declarative UI http://zchydem.enume.net/?p=128 Dec 13 09:37:48 pastewin Dec 13 09:37:59 the easiest 1 i guess is the swap ext3 and fat32 patitions over Dec 13 09:38:55 without hardware keyboard: don't you have a problem that every application must support of input or at least resizing (so that virtual keyboard can be showed at the same time) Dec 13 09:38:59 I'd happily zap my entire disk over to ext3... connecting via USB is a pain in the arse Dec 13 09:39:17 pwnguin: you're looking for "OpenArena" Dec 13 09:39:49 q3a texxtures look better than openarena Dec 13 09:39:53 Morning, all Dec 13 09:40:38 OpenArena does look a bit arse, kynky Dec 13 09:40:50 But, by god, it's open... and an arena Dec 13 09:40:52 can we get hardware codes of keys pressed in sdl Dec 13 09:40:55 yep Dec 13 09:41:10 to Gadgetoid :) Dec 13 09:41:10 i want to ignore language layout Dec 13 09:41:35 but on sceen kb problem def been solved in industry Dec 13 09:43:25 Markus23: GUI frameworks take care of problems like that Dec 13 09:43:35 alright, i'm off to bed Dec 13 09:43:35 later Dec 13 09:43:38 night Dec 13 09:43:44 night Dec 13 09:43:47 nn Dec 13 09:44:23 GUI frameworks can't guarantee that you can make the application endless small Dec 13 09:44:44 and full screen applications, e.g. q3a may not even allow to show the virtual keyboard Dec 13 09:45:13 so, I don't think it was a bad decision to have a keyboard Dec 13 09:45:24 well if apple, ms, sony and samsung can sort out problem, sure nokia can Dec 13 09:45:46 i wanted a kb, some other ppl prefer thinner devices Dec 13 09:45:51 kynky: they don't use open source software, all applications there are developed from scratch Dec 13 09:46:03 *then* it is no problem Dec 13 09:46:10 I've learned my lesson from the iPhone... even the best on-screen keyboards suck Dec 13 09:46:33 really? I like the onscreen keyboard on the iPhone a lot Dec 13 09:46:44 It hates me Dec 13 09:46:48 Markus23, nokia have a lot of say on the ui design, its not just left to linux community Dec 13 09:46:51 imho it rivals the physical keyboard of the N900 Dec 13 09:46:58 but I have small fingers Dec 13 09:47:25 Only I can't use my own personal turns of phrase and weirdness without the iPhone ruthlessly correcting it to utter nonsens Dec 13 09:47:40 turn off autocorrect? Dec 13 09:47:57 No need, I gave my iPhone away Dec 13 09:48:01 http://www.doctorhousingbubble.com/mortgage-electronic-registration-systems-mers-a-system-designed-to-create-the-mortgage-back-security-bubble Dec 13 09:48:07 kynky: if I want to use, lets say unison on my n900: the ui design guidelines of nokia are certainly not implemented there :-) Dec 13 09:48:52 n900 still in development phase , maemo6 is supposed to be final i thought Dec 13 09:49:51 kynky: software is never final :-) Dec 13 09:50:06 if maemo6 is not going to work on n900 or will be limited in some bad way... i just hope that the next device will have a keyboard Dec 13 09:50:37 hardware could be (except of some optimizations), but it won't be because then you can't sell anything Dec 13 09:50:44 maemo6 will add capacitive screen input method Dec 13 09:51:09 kynky: and multi touch also? Dec 13 09:51:17 exactly Dec 13 09:51:22 capacitive? capacitive screens are bad - can't use them in hand gloves Dec 13 09:51:52 arachnist: is it possible to use n900 with hand gloves? Dec 13 09:52:21 Markus23: it's possible to at least dial a number or select a number from the list in the phone app Dec 13 09:52:31 cool :-) Dec 13 09:52:44 Markus23: the on-screen keyboard also works well Dec 13 09:53:07 n900 is resistive, so yes, also use stylus on resistive but not capacitive, but they are developing capactive stylus Dec 13 09:53:35 arachnist: so receiving a call is no problem too? Dec 13 09:53:41 Markus23: yup Dec 13 09:54:08 kynky: there's no such thing like a decent c-stylus Dec 13 09:54:42 i thought that nokia would use the recently-patented resistive multi-touch screen Dec 13 09:54:46 (patented by them) Dec 13 09:55:30 pfff, I designed this years ago. really don't think they got a patent on it. prior art you know Dec 13 09:56:19 won't stop them to use such a r-ts with multitouch Dec 13 10:01:22 blargh Dec 13 10:01:30 er... I mean... morning, #maemo Dec 13 10:01:46 lol Dec 13 10:02:36 just FYI, if anyone is planning on downloading Qole's Easy Debian image, I'll probably be mirroring it somewhere faster for him tomorrow Dec 13 10:03:34 jaem: what is the "Qole's Easy Debian image"? Dec 13 10:04:19 Markus23, it's a disk image that allows you to run stock Debian apps on Maemo Dec 13 10:04:27 e.g. OpenOffice/GIMP/etc Dec 13 10:04:34 jaem: additionally or only that? Dec 13 10:04:40 they don't all run *well*, mind you, but they will run Dec 13 10:04:46 Markus23, additionally Dec 13 10:04:58 it mounts the disk image, and runs the apps from within it Dec 13 10:05:01 cool, will take a look at it then Dec 13 10:05:04 it doesn't replace Maemo Dec 13 10:05:26 Qole is the guy who wrote the scripts to manage it, and packaged it up nicely Dec 13 10:05:55 his hosting is cheap, but not particularly fast, and my friend and I have bits to spare on our server, which has a 35Mbps upload Dec 13 10:06:32 I always feel vicarious guilt when downloading something from a slow server, and that makes me feel obligated to seed/mirror/whatever the file to help others Dec 13 10:06:33 lol Dec 13 10:07:01 it's not *that* bad, in this case Dec 13 10:07:04 just slower than I'm used to Dec 13 10:08:05 Om nom nom shortbread Dec 13 10:08:19 * jaem got a care package from his mom to take back to uni :) Dec 13 10:08:39 timeless_mbp, -poke- Dec 13 10:09:54 jaem: are there resources about the "Qole's Easy Debian image"? Dec 13 10:10:00 only find things about N810 Dec 13 10:10:57 Markus23, it's in the testing or devel repo for Maemo 5 (can't remember which), so it might eat your hamster, but it worksforme Dec 13 10:11:06 It is also possible to run android applications? http://www.unwiredview.com/2008/07/03/how-to-run-android-on-your-nokia-n810-easy/ Dec 13 10:11:43 jaem: its not the first thing I will try with my n900, but I will definetive give it a try Dec 13 10:12:51 Markus23, do you have your N900 yet? Dec 13 10:16:01 jaem: yes, but did not open it, will go on holidays today and won't take a handy with me Dec 13 10:16:20 ah... have fun, then :) Dec 13 10:17:03 around christmas I will try it intensively :-) Dec 13 10:17:45 heh... my family had a mini-Christmas today Dec 13 10:17:59 and the normal Christmas will be a Second Christmas Dec 13 10:18:01 fun fun fun Dec 13 10:18:27 Markus23, where are you going for your holiday? Dec 13 10:19:21 jaem: not far away, skiing in styria, I live in vienna Dec 13 10:19:36 hallo! Dec 13 10:19:45 sers :-) Dec 13 10:20:03 Markus23, neat! Dec 13 10:20:30 do you get much snow there at this time of year? Dec 13 10:20:49 luckily not! Dec 13 10:21:14 didn't heard of it yet Dec 13 10:21:28 no christmas without snow... Dec 13 10:21:37 ah... I'm near Vancouver, but my uni is on a large hill/small mountain, so we usually get a bit Dec 13 10:21:48 christmas is always without snow here Dec 13 10:22:01 not here :) Dec 13 10:22:01 the joke is that our campus has three seasons: 2 weeks of Winter, 1 month of Summer, and the rest is Rain Dec 13 10:22:06 I think the last 5 years there was snow before and at silvester, but not christmas Dec 13 10:22:26 we usually get at least one big dump of snow that strands half the students, because the buses don't have proper snow tires Dec 13 10:22:42 haha Dec 13 10:22:42 there's some talk about putting a gondola up to the campus :) Dec 13 10:23:03 that would be pretty epic, but I don't know if it's the best use of money Dec 13 10:42:06 and THEN WERE GONNA FIIIIIIIIND OUR BEST FRIEND DOUG Dec 13 10:42:11 AND WERE GONNA GIVE HIM A BEST FRIEND HUUUUUG Dec 13 10:47:21 hi Dec 13 10:47:28 hi Dec 13 10:48:09 irssi on my n900 :) Dec 13 10:48:19 same :) Dec 13 10:48:29 :) Dec 13 10:48:34 how do to that guys' Dec 13 10:48:43 i have n900 how to log in irc by that Dec 13 10:48:56 install irssi on it Dec 13 10:49:10 have you tried the irc account plugin yet? Dec 13 10:49:12 from the terminal Dec 13 10:49:16 via extras-devel (obligatort extras-devel warning too) Dec 13 10:49:30 nice Dec 13 10:49:30 telepathy-idle Dec 13 10:49:32 bobbyd, I did Dec 13 10:49:40 the idle plugin sucks =/ Dec 13 10:49:45 I couldn't actually get it to work properly, but that might have just been me Dec 13 10:49:59 its working fine for me Dec 13 10:50:14 just install irssi and not the -dev one Dec 13 10:50:14 Gadgetoid_iMac, I think it's mainly that the telepathy-based chat that comes with Maemo is not suited to IRC nearly as much as single-user IM Dec 13 10:50:31 I don't think it's bad in and of itself - just not the best solution Dec 13 10:50:54 jaem: okay, to be fair the plugin itself is fine, it's just massively out of place and almost entirely useless Dec 13 10:50:59 irssi is pretty damn good Dec 13 10:51:04 Unless people message you a lot Dec 13 10:51:15 Gadgetoid_iMac, agreed ;) Dec 13 10:51:21 well said Dec 13 10:51:30 Anyhoo, hitting the city for some christmas shopping, woohaw Dec 13 10:52:05 Gadgetoid_iMac, woot - have fun Dec 13 10:52:22 buy gifts to me also! Dec 13 10:52:40 btw is there a way to select multiple things to install through the gui application manager then install them all in one go? Dec 13 10:52:49 bobbyd, unfortunately not Dec 13 10:52:58 i miss that to Dec 13 10:53:05 I was bugging them about that last year, but I don't think it was a priority Dec 13 10:53:17 there is always apt-get, or u could create a meta package Dec 13 10:53:22 bobbyd, installing in the console is usually reasonably simple, though Dec 13 10:53:32 although it's not for everyone Dec 13 10:53:46 it's just the refresh time that's annoying Dec 13 10:53:55 terminal ftw Dec 13 10:53:58 * jaem nods Dec 13 10:54:00 yep Dec 13 10:54:00 to both comments Dec 13 10:54:26 * jaem wants a Maemo app like Yakuake Dec 13 10:55:13 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=414632#post414632 öðôå åðó àãñë øû åðôå Ø öùòâóê Dec 13 10:55:15 damn Dec 13 10:55:23 what the hell is that I wonder Dec 13 10:57:04 to much to read :o Dec 13 10:57:13 anyone else getting a size mismatch error when trying to install openvpn? Dec 13 10:57:13 im sleepy =) Dec 13 10:57:24 havent tryd Dec 13 10:58:13 anyone got greasemonkey to work? Dec 13 10:59:20 antezz, installed (I think) but haven't tried it yet Dec 13 10:59:44 i installed it several times havent shown up Dec 13 11:00:01 tried reboot the phone several times after same result Dec 13 11:00:15 i miss my userscripts :( Dec 13 11:00:30 although i guess there is greasemonkey for fennec too Dec 13 11:01:09 i dont like that browser atm. makes the pages looks wierd Dec 13 11:01:14 * ruskie only tried fennec and didn't much like it Dec 13 11:01:43 for an exampel text was huge and forms was small Dec 13 11:02:07 so "username" was big put a small input Dec 13 11:02:32 also i couldnt figur out how to zoom nicley :) Dec 13 11:03:08 phone consumers make boring forum posts Dec 13 11:03:13 i like the default browser for now on till fennec gets some updates Dec 13 11:03:15 wazd: on the other hand, the combination of ideas and proposals often end up in a better product.. Dec 13 11:03:44 haha what kind of posts? Dec 13 11:03:53 Stskeeps: on the other hand they can at least ask me Dec 13 11:04:27 wazd: i'm almost willing to bet they would have if you had been in bcn :/ Dec 13 11:05:00 Stskeeps: seriously, Maemo has TONS of software to improve and they are chosing the one that I'm working at already Dec 13 11:06:08 Stskeeps: do you see any sign of sense here? Dec 13 11:06:43 wazd: well, it was a choice by tomaszd and the author, so, but yes, it's a bit redundant Dec 13 11:07:07 maybe your work served as foundation for discussions? i didn't read it too closely Dec 13 11:08:05 wazd: either way, this just points to the need for some people to coordinate ui efforts in community Dec 13 11:08:14 * w00t agrees Dec 13 11:08:45 wazd: cos right now a lot of effort is going in but it's very unfocused and often people end up doing same things over and over again Dec 13 11:08:55 as witnessed right here Dec 13 11:08:59 nice job xchat porter person! I am liking commands in pm window Dec 13 11:09:21 and there is certainly plenty of UI work going around Dec 13 11:09:43 Stskeeps: well, there are lots of people willing to do this Dec 13 11:09:52 Stskeeps: joshua.maverick and stuff :) Dec 13 11:10:06 wazd: yeah.. and they try and try and give up in the end cos the work isn't really structured Dec 13 11:10:09 is xchat a good example of the barriers in maemo concept Dec 13 11:10:14 wazd: i'm frankly amazed you haven't gone insane just yet :) Dec 13 11:10:29 Stskeeps: I'm doing just fine somehow :) Dec 13 11:10:40 maybe because you are already insane? :p Dec 13 11:10:41 Stskeeps: cause it's much simplier that it looks like Dec 13 11:10:43 the linux software stack is not very rich field for end user phone application! Dec 13 11:10:49 Stskeeps, that's the way to do it :P Dec 13 11:10:59 Stskeeps: you find the project that looks awful, you help it Dec 13 11:11:28 Stskeeps: if it still looks awful after your help - another designer will find it soon Dec 13 11:11:44 Stskeeps, was that you that was discussing dpkg-divert at some point on #mer? (Or at least, do you know how to use it?) Dec 13 11:11:44 Stskeeps: no wiki's, mailing lists, waves and stuff :) Dec 13 11:12:10 move to qt also limits interest in maemo5 Dec 13 11:12:11 wazd: the downside of that is that the most popular apps will be getting attention and the not so popular won't Dec 13 11:12:14 wazd: but you're right Dec 13 11:12:15 ManuelSE: gui wise no it isnt Dec 13 11:12:27 ManuelSE: functionality wise, yeah it is Dec 13 11:12:41 the other downside there is that there's no coordination between people - so they might not realise that someone else is already working on that ugly application Dec 13 11:12:50 but most likely, any software stack you take and port to a phone is going to require a UI overhall regardless Dec 13 11:13:03 yes goldfish, so look at xchat. is it more work to fix xchat for maemo5 or write a new app? Dec 13 11:13:13 not sure I don't use xchat Dec 13 11:13:22 Stskeeps: well, for the less popular apps "asking" for a help is a good way to get help Dec 13 11:13:23 but it's quite easy to get irssi running on maemo5 heh Dec 13 11:13:34 Stskeeps: we even have design section now Dec 13 11:13:43 wazd: yeah, a brilliant idea Dec 13 11:13:53 I'd lean towards something new for xchat I think, because I think a standard irc client's network behavior will eat battery like no tomorrow Dec 13 11:14:17 I think you'd almost have to do some proxy to make it acceptable from a battery use perspective Dec 13 11:14:24 (to be able to idle all day that is) Dec 13 11:15:10 ManuelSE: given the variety of irc libraries and bindings available in the linux system, I think it would probably be easier to develop something new Dec 13 11:15:41 for this particular example, but thats more of a shot in the dark than anything, I'm not aware of the exact UI issues with xchat on the n900, cause I haven't used xchat for years Dec 13 11:16:30 ok i am looking at other gtk apps and it takes also a lot of time to learn the code Dec 13 11:16:42 ManuelSE: and yeah, the move to qt add's a lot of uncertainty Dec 13 11:17:00 honestly I think nokia is a bit confused on this, they are touting the benefits of qt... Dec 13 11:17:00 how? Dec 13 11:17:07 and then trying to get developers to build for gtk+ now Dec 13 11:17:07 (does it add uncertainty) Dec 13 11:17:28 nokia own trolltech Dec 13 11:17:29 w00t: uncertainty in certain developers minds Dec 13 11:17:39 me, I can't wait for the move to qt4 Dec 13 11:17:45 qt4 is a freaking sweet set of libraries Dec 13 11:17:55 from any perspective you want to look at it Dec 13 11:18:02 and IMO, much cleaner than gtk Dec 13 11:18:11 let's not get onto the religious wars ;-) Dec 13 11:18:19 uncertainty in the sense, that developers dont know to target gtk or qt Dec 13 11:18:24 the midori webkit-based browser seems quite fast, but obviously a bit buggy atm. good start though Dec 13 11:18:30 gtk is deprecated, and we know it will be phased out, or at least less emphasized Dec 13 11:18:34 well, if I was starting something, it'd be in qt Dec 13 11:18:38 qt is available *now* Dec 13 11:18:39 and qt isn't quite ready for prime time on maemo yet afaik Dec 13 11:18:52 there are still some UI issues as I understand it Dec 13 11:19:06 I've not heard of any at least Dec 13 11:19:13 jaem: eh Dec 13 11:19:14 but I was impressed at how well it did integrate with the rest of the platform in my quick tests Dec 13 11:19:53 what qt issues are there ? Dec 13 11:19:55 but the whole gtk/qt switch adds even more uncertainty from a commercial dev perspective, to what is already seen as a bit of a uncertain platform Dec 13 11:20:00 go1dfish: I dont think it is productive to mark gtk as "depreciated" Dec 13 11:20:05 I'd suggest subscribing to qt-maemo-feedback Dec 13 11:20:08 maemo is quite a grand experiment, and many people see it still only as an experiment Dec 13 11:20:10 I'd like to have the rocker keys *always* control volume, even when locked Dec 13 11:20:15 and writing about any concerns you have Dec 13 11:20:16 gtk is alternative Dec 13 11:20:19 they're very responsive Dec 13 11:20:23 it will be always necessary to have gtk for some applications: gimp, unison,... Dec 13 11:20:26 kynde, packaging - namely the fact that there are two versions in the wild, and packages are built for one or the other Dec 13 11:20:27 Markus23: yeah deprecated is probably the wrong word Dec 13 11:20:33 also a few bits of oddness Dec 13 11:20:34 nokia are obviously going to push qt now Dec 13 11:20:45 tbh, I got that from someone else in this channel earlier Dec 13 11:20:57 I do not know how nokia officially describes the state of gtk on maemo Dec 13 11:21:03 but I'm sure it will continue to work in some fashion Dec 13 11:21:07 like the Fremantle Menus prefixing the buttons with the Menu name, e.g. "File/Open", instead of just "Open" like GTK apps Dec 13 11:21:16 just not as preferred as qt4 for maemo5 Dec 13 11:21:18 I'm sure that someone interested will pick up hildon and run with it Dec 13 11:21:19 err Dec 13 11:21:20 gnome just seem to be copying windows for ideas :) Dec 13 11:21:22 maemo6 rather Dec 13 11:21:27 ok, the maemo platform may also be repelling for gtk developers when you say their toolkit is deprecated Dec 13 11:21:38 I prefer qt btw. Dec 13 11:21:57 kynky, yes, GNOME copies Windows, Compiz is a knock-off of Mac, and Win7 is a knock-off of KDE - *of course*! Dec 13 11:22:03 no, but seriously, everyone borrows things Dec 13 11:22:06 kynky: whoa. don't you think that this is a bit unfair? Dec 13 11:22:12 and as long as it's not blatant, that's not a bad thing Dec 13 11:22:23 dammit. I knew this would lead to a religious discussion ;) Dec 13 11:22:29 w00t: heh, sorry Dec 13 11:22:35 ale-x, i mean the way they do gnome-config and the massive use of mono Dec 13 11:22:40 GNOME doesn't suit me personally (I quite dislike it), but there's no call to bash it Dec 13 11:22:42 go1dfish: hehe Dec 13 11:22:45 I used to be a pure gtk guy, from a user perspective Dec 13 11:22:50 gnome user, avoided qt apps etc... Dec 13 11:22:51 kynky: massive use of Mono? where? Dec 13 11:22:53 but qt4, holy crap Dec 13 11:23:04 go1dfish, -grin- Dec 13 11:23:11 changed my mind quite quickly, but largely because I was developing with it at the time Dec 13 11:23:16 speaking of mono... maemo might be a better platform for running .Net apps than winmo Dec 13 11:23:23 go1dfish: and it's only getting better (c.f. QML, QtAnimation, etcetera) Dec 13 11:23:35 ale-x , the gut behind gnome, been pushing that, well from his interviews at least Dec 13 11:23:46 simply because winmo has only .net CF, and mono implements way more than that Dec 13 11:23:49 I was at the developer event in san jose earlier this month, and during the developer session they were going through some gtk desktop applet demo code... Dec 13 11:24:01 kynky: I've been following that discussion a lot Dec 13 11:24:18 w00t, I was reading the KDE Planet for over a year and a half before I tried coding with Qt, and the reason I did was because the code just *looked* nice to use from the brief snippets I saw on the blogs Dec 13 11:24:27 kynky: but there is, definitely, no massive Mono conspiracy in Gnome Dec 13 11:24:27 and all I could thing was, why the fuck would you voluntarily write that, so much boilerplate around (gobject/gtk) Dec 13 11:24:27 and it is indeed Dec 13 11:24:29 jaem: yup Dec 13 11:24:44 kynky: I know that, because I use Gnome exclusively Dec 13 11:24:44 ale-x, never said conspiracy :) or implied Dec 13 11:25:20 kynky: the Gnome core consists of c, gtk+ and some python Dec 13 11:25:48 but i do think gnome-config stuff similar to windows registry, and gnome-moo move is like the windows .net move Dec 13 11:26:03 ah, you mean gconf Dec 13 11:26:12 yep Dec 13 11:26:28 but what is gnome-moo? Dec 13 11:26:29 * DocScrutinizer-8 does a uninstall mono -force-depends, and giggles madly Dec 13 11:26:30 linux way is /etc Dec 13 11:26:41 gnome-mono spelling mistake Dec 13 11:26:47 Markus23: um Dec 13 11:26:51 depreciated is an amusing word Dec 13 11:26:56 kynky: no, "Linux" way (there is no Linux way) is ~/.* Dec 13 11:27:05 i'll offer a definition for you Dec 13 11:27:05 kynky: /etc is not a proper place for user-specific settings Dec 13 11:27:06 btw: Linux is the kernel Dec 13 11:27:16 it means to acknowledge a decrease in value with time Dec 13 11:27:33 the linux way is to use ~/.* but /etc if no user config is available Dec 13 11:27:35 timeless_mbp, yep, and it annoys me when people confuse it with "deprecated" Dec 13 11:27:35 ale-x, well then gnu way :) but you know what i mean Dec 13 11:27:36 :P Dec 13 11:27:38 as nokia has spent more money on Qt (by buying it) than they invested in Gtk (by building Maemo) Dec 13 11:27:46 and lately ~/.config and ~/.local Dec 13 11:27:52 system config in /etc Dec 13 11:27:59 nokia has acknowledged a depreciation in value wrt its investment in Gtk Dec 13 11:28:06 hrm Dec 13 11:28:09 and all settings in gconf are storend in XML-files in the user directory Dec 13 11:28:09 interesting Dec 13 11:28:10 kynky: gconf is actually very nice, and apart from the hierarchical representation of config keys and values, it has quite little similarity with the windows registry Dec 13 11:28:14 now, that's fine and dandy, but it's only a business decision Dec 13 11:28:20 timeless_mbp: here to fan the flames? ;p Dec 13 11:28:21 the word you want as jaem points out is "deprecated" Dec 13 11:28:23 spelling matters Dec 13 11:28:27 muep, i never said it wasnt nice Dec 13 11:28:33 spell the word correctly or be misinterpreted. Dec 13 11:28:44 lol Dec 13 11:28:46 w00t: just chewing someone out for a flagrant typo Dec 13 11:28:55 kynky: you'd prefer every application to develop their own config file syntax and code to handle it? Dec 13 11:28:57 timeless_mbp: they realized gtk sucked, and all their dev time baning their head against it was sunk costs :) Dec 13 11:29:00 timeless_mbp: hehe Dec 13 11:29:01 flagrant? Dec 13 11:29:14 kynky: I've heard people comparing gconf and registry a lot, but gconf really is only a nice interface to read and set XML-values Dec 13 11:29:14 kynky: artistic license :) Dec 13 11:29:22 timeless_mbp, I actually missed the typo, but my brain assumed its existence XD Dec 13 11:29:31 muep, i never said that, where did i say that ? Dec 13 11:29:31 lol Dec 13 11:29:43 go1dfish: nope, those were accountants, they did precisely what i described above Dec 13 11:29:50 ale-x: well the registry is just a nice way to read and write .ini values Dec 13 11:29:51 timeless_mbp, Artistic License or artistic license? Dec 13 11:29:57 haha, sure Dec 13 11:29:57 the latter Dec 13 11:29:59 AND THE BOTH SUCK. Dec 13 11:30:06 RST38h, true :) Dec 13 11:30:10 they looked at the amount invested in Maemo and compared it to how much they paid for TrollTech Dec 13 11:30:16 the registry is something completely different, RST38h Dec 13 11:30:17 RST38h: no, the windows registry does not use ini Dec 13 11:30:19 trolltech cost more, so it must be more valuable :) Dec 13 11:30:29 Markus23, they were saying it is conceptually similar Dec 13 11:30:35 But would they have bought TrollTech in the first plcae, if gtk didn't suck? Dec 13 11:30:37 Markus23: I am sure gconf does not directly use xml files either Dec 13 11:30:38 just all in one place Dec 13 11:30:38 that's what I'm getting at Dec 13 11:30:39 RST38h: it is meant to drive the whole system Dec 13 11:30:39 RST38h: ini files don't really support binary object data Dec 13 11:30:47 it was replacement for ini, but it was obvious what RST38h was saying Dec 13 11:30:47 nor do they support ACLs in any useful form Dec 13 11:30:52 go1dfish: from my perspective, it's not a matter of sucking or not sucking, but of control Dec 13 11:31:01 nor does it support any useful level of plugability nor auditing Dec 13 11:31:09 * RST38h finds it surprising how much religious value people put into hierarchical data models Dec 13 11:31:10 but really, it's a bit offtopic I think Dec 13 11:31:19 but if you want to think of the registry as a system for key value pairs Dec 13 11:31:27 RST38h: you are sure? how can you be? Dec 13 11:31:28 RST38h: people have to find something to keep themselves amused. Dec 13 11:31:30 that's not entirely wrong, it's just overlooking everything else it does Dec 13 11:31:40 timeless_mbp: why not? there is always and similar techniques Dec 13 11:31:48 Markus23: ?? Dec 13 11:31:54 w00t: what could be more on topic in #maemo than a discussion of the design of maemo? Dec 13 11:31:54 night folks Dec 13 11:32:02 * timeless_mbp wonders which thread/context Markus23 has in mind Dec 13 11:32:16 go1dfish: there's a difference between the design of maemo and saying "x sucks, y doesn't" Dec 13 11:32:18 timeless_mbp: "(12:30:41) timeless_mbp: RST38h: ini files don't really support binary object data" Dec 13 11:32:18 go1dfish: we have #maemo-ui and others now :) Dec 13 11:32:23 any tips on how to see if n900 screen is blank. Maybe with hal or something? Dec 13 11:32:29 w00t: you're right I'm oversimplifying Dec 13 11:32:31 one is constructive, the other isn't Dec 13 11:32:38 petteri, look at it? Dec 13 11:32:49 :P Dec 13 11:32:53 jaem: from the device :D Dec 13 11:32:55 Markus23: please try to write in proper English Dec 13 11:33:08 ok Dec 13 11:33:12 * timeless_mbp can't parse Markus23 's thought Dec 13 11:33:19 petteri, put a mirror in front of the webcame/screen? Dec 13 11:33:20 RST38h: you got a Gnome system to check for your "no xml files" theory? Dec 13 11:33:25 but the point I was trying to make to timeless_mbp, is that though there was certainly an accountant decision afterwards (the depreciation) the purchase wouldn't have happened in the first place without the technical impetetus for switching to qt4 (loosely described by me as gtk sucking) Dec 13 11:33:31 "always" is almost certainly not the word he wanted Dec 13 11:33:41 timeless_mbp: you said that there is a problem in storing binary data in ini, but it is not, or not more then e.g. xml Dec 13 11:33:45 go1dfish: wrong Dec 13 11:33:49 there was a toolkit sucking Dec 13 11:33:55 hildon, hehe. Dec 13 11:33:55 but it wasn't Gtk/Maemo/Hildon Dec 13 11:33:58 it was Symbian Dec 13 11:34:06 aww Dec 13 11:34:06 and Nokia was fairly public in explaining this Dec 13 11:34:22 what is the configuration format of the maemo default applications? Dec 13 11:34:26 exactly.... Dec 13 11:34:32 adopting Qt in Maemo was purely business Dec 13 11:34:34 Markus23: "gconf" Dec 13 11:34:36 ale-x: well I have seen the xml files, but always thought that they are cached in memory or some data file at runtime Dec 13 11:34:37 gtk sucks in comparison to qt in the arena of cross platform compatibility Dec 13 11:34:49 jaem: :P I am trying to do a hook what does someting, like puts my jabber account on away, when the device is not used Dec 13 11:34:58 if gtk was as well suited to cross platform development as qt.... Dec 13 11:35:02 timeless_mbp: I still think there was an element of wanting control there, too Dec 13 11:35:06 the acquisition/switch to qt would not be needed Dec 13 11:35:10 and gtk would be ported to s60 Dec 13 11:35:16 petteri, I know, I'm just bugging you because I'm bored :P Maybe DBus? Dec 13 11:35:21 w00t: no one inside maemo wanted it Dec 13 11:35:23 search around on mxr.maemo.org Dec 13 11:35:30 timeless_mbp: *inside*, no Dec 13 11:35:37 timeless_mbp: but inside nokia management, likely Dec 13 11:35:39 decisions made entirely by accountants are doomed to failure IMO Dec 13 11:35:42 w00t: sure Dec 13 11:36:01 RST38h: of course they are cached Dec 13 11:36:03 timeless_mbp: from their perspective, hildon/gtk was a risk because they didn't control it outright Dec 13 11:36:09 jaem: i am looking at the lshal output, but can't figure out what indicates that the device is not used. Any tips? Dec 13 11:36:15 w00t: you don't have to explain this to me Dec 13 11:36:26 w00t: they have some measure of control yes, but as far as licenses are concerned theyve done nothing but further liberalize the qt license Dec 13 11:36:27 timeless_mbp: i'm not explaining, just making sure you understand my thought process Dec 13 11:36:28 petteri, I'm quickly looking into it now Dec 13 11:36:33 RST38h: even Oracle does that Dec 13 11:36:34 but it's 3am, so I may give up Dec 13 11:36:41 go1dfish: that is in their interest to do so Dec 13 11:36:49 w00t: certainly Dec 13 11:36:51 w00t: officially nokia wants people to be able to write to a single (ok, they can't count, but) api Dec 13 11:36:57 and its great to see someone finally realize it Dec 13 11:36:57 and move it from one phone platform to another Dec 13 11:37:05 the only story they could see for that was in their purchase of Qt Dec 13 11:37:13 go1dfish: they don't rely on qt licencing to generate revenue, they want more people contributing to help their development platform Dec 13 11:37:16 and making everyone in the company use it Dec 13 11:37:20 w00t: certainly Dec 13 11:37:22 go1dfish: TT on the other hand, did rely on licencing revenue :) Dec 13 11:37:35 timeless_mbp, does mxr run on the same 770 as garage? :/ Dec 13 11:37:41 jaem: no Dec 13 11:37:41 grr Dec 13 11:37:45 different one? Dec 13 11:37:48 it runs on dreamhost Dec 13 11:37:48 :P Dec 13 11:37:48 timeless_mbp: yup Dec 13 11:38:02 RST38h: all I wanted to say, basically, is that Registry has to be there to drive the whole system, whereas gconf wants to provide a nice interface for Gnome developers Dec 13 11:38:04 jaem: doing a full text search on fremantle is mean Dec 13 11:38:05 i always thought xml was a bit verbose, and should be compressed or whatever(rename of long tagnames via lut) when in memory Dec 13 11:38:10 w00t: I know :) quite well, I actually used the qt dual licensing analogy with a nokia rep to describe a portion of my own company's business model Dec 13 11:38:15 give it a file path constraint and you'll be much happier Dec 13 11:38:23 or do an identifier search Dec 13 11:38:28 timeless_mbp, yeah, fair enough... it may be my network playing up a bit too Dec 13 11:38:38 nah, /fremantle/ is torture Dec 13 11:38:45 not software though, music so quite different, but close enough to help overcome the finnish language barrier :) Dec 13 11:38:57 qt uses tri-licensing now ? Dec 13 11:39:11 go1dfish, wow, I must be tired... I misread that as "I did a Nokia rap" Dec 13 11:39:15 lol Dec 13 11:39:17 that would be interesting Dec 13 11:39:19 lol Dec 13 11:39:20 heh, Dec 13 11:39:25 jaem: better than "I did a Nokia rep" Dec 13 11:39:25 Qt5 dance, anyone? Dec 13 11:39:34 timeless_mbp, well, yes Dec 13 11:39:44 jaem: lol Dec 13 11:39:58 the qt4 dance was too damn catchy Dec 13 11:39:58 does anyone know why Nokia switches Toolkits? Dec 13 11:40:08 ale-x: pay attention? Dec 13 11:40:12 unless rep was repititon Dec 13 11:40:14 ale-x: because they bought qt? Dec 13 11:40:15 my friend was telling me that they played that at Dev Days in CA, and nobody sang along :( Dec 13 11:40:15 we literally just covered this Dec 13 11:40:18 I mean the "official" reason? Dec 13 11:40:24 trolltech Dec 13 11:40:29 ale-x: i'm pretty sure i stated it Dec 13 11:40:34 it doesn't get much more official than... Dec 13 11:40:41 we just bought this company that builds a toolkit Dec 13 11:40:47 so we're going to switch to using that toolkit Dec 13 11:40:50 ale-x: qt is more portable, cleaner and there's no fear of the toolkit dying or getting developed in wrong direction Dec 13 11:40:51 to enable developers to write a program for one platform and use it everywhere Dec 13 11:40:55 ale-x, hang on - I'll phone up Nokia's CEO and ask -snerk- Dec 13 11:41:16 qt works on a lot of platforms Dec 13 11:41:34 kynky, Plan9? Dec 13 11:41:43 if not, then... *DEALBREAKER* Dec 13 11:41:44 :P Dec 13 11:41:46 sorry, I was not clear enough: I meant: does anyone know the "official press release" statement?? Dec 13 11:41:48 lol Dec 13 11:41:48 if any Dec 13 11:41:55 qt works on linux desktop, windows, osx, symbian and winmo/wince ports are in progress Dec 13 11:41:59 they are trying to position qt4 almost like sun tried to position java Dec 13 11:42:14 arachnist, not to mention VXWorks, and various Unices Dec 13 11:42:20 and I think that might be a mistake, it's true that your qt4 app will almost certainly 'run' on any platform with a simple recompile Dec 13 11:42:21 go1dfish, only it wont' stick Dec 13 11:42:22 jaem: and QNX :> Dec 13 11:42:24 qt and hava very different Dec 13 11:42:25 ale-x: google site:press.nokia.com? Dec 13 11:42:32 s/stick/stink/ Dec 13 11:42:33 jaem meant: go1dfish, only it wont' stink Dec 13 11:42:33 but very naive to imply that no modifications will be needed Dec 13 11:42:38 java* Dec 13 11:42:40 arachnist, Dec 13 11:42:48 QNX is a Unix, is it not? Dec 13 11:42:50 they bought QT while developing GTK+ so there must have been a reason to do so Dec 13 11:42:55 go1dfish: sorry, that's too complicated for bean counters Dec 13 11:42:58 or am I mistaken Dec 13 11:43:06 easier to buy qt than gtk+ Dec 13 11:43:10 thats not to say there aren't huge benefits from using qt4 for cross platform development, but its not quite that direct Dec 13 11:43:11 jaem: i thought that it's not exactly unix Dec 13 11:43:12 qt was "always" positioned as being portable over unix/windows/macosx and embedded devices Dec 13 11:43:13 timeless_mbp: heh so true Dec 13 11:43:19 "I paid 10x as much for X as i did for Y, and it says on the box you can use it everywhere." Dec 13 11:43:24 arachnist, yeah, you may be right... but it's POSIXy at aleast Dec 13 11:43:36 "What do you mean it isn't that simple? Make it that simple. That's what I'm paying you for." Dec 13 11:43:44 timeless_mbp: Nokia wouldn't have gone shopping in the first place if gtk could get the job done Dec 13 11:43:45 windows is POSIXy Dec 13 11:43:46 arachnist, I haven't used it personally, but they use it in the real-time lab at my uni Dec 13 11:43:58 kynky, bah Dec 13 11:44:04 go1dfish: i disagree Dec 13 11:44:32 the s60/s40 group never really talked to the maemo group Dec 13 11:44:42 fwiw, QNX is Unix like Dec 13 11:44:48 it's a 'not unix' Dec 13 11:45:09 all I found on that matter was "its talented team will play an important role in accelerating the implementation of Nokia’s software strategy" Dec 13 11:45:16 timeless_mbp, Qnx is Not uniX? Dec 13 11:45:24 but that's not really what I wanted to hear Dec 13 11:45:28 kynky: eh, windows has a posix subsystem... Dec 13 11:45:30 timeless_mbp: your certainly right there, there wasn't much interaction with maemo/sX0 groups Dec 13 11:45:32 ale-x, it's a press release - what do you expect? Dec 13 11:45:40 jaem: nothing, really Dec 13 11:45:47 ale-x, you're more likely to get straight answers here than official PR Dec 13 11:45:54 even given the limits on what can be said Dec 13 11:46:00 timeless, thats why i reused the POSIXy phrase and didnt say POSIX Dec 13 11:46:14 kynky: windows isn't really posixy Dec 13 11:46:15 jaem: you know that answer I got: they switch toolkits, because they own trolltech Dec 13 11:46:16 kynky, "Windows *can be* POSIXy" Dec 13 11:46:31 ale-x, well, there's validity to that Dec 13 11:46:39 jaem: but that's much like a cat biting it's tail Dec 13 11:46:49 QNX is certainly close enough to Unix that QNX devs would be useful on unix/linux systems Dec 13 11:47:09 more like the family getting together and the father and the 4 older brothers sitting the little son down Dec 13 11:47:15 windows is not not very posixy in any useful ways, QNX is. Dec 13 11:47:17 ale-x, well, I doubt it wasn't in their minds in the beginning, but once you own a cross-platform toolkit, using it cross-platform makes sense Dec 13 11:47:19 "son, it's time for you to join the family business" Dec 13 11:47:43 Qt is ported to S60 on top of their posix emulation layer, ensuring great performance, because Symbian isn't *remotely* posixy :) Dec 13 11:47:48 hrm, there's a guy who heads Nokia India on BBCWorld TV atm Dec 13 11:47:54 he's explaining Nokia's future plans Dec 13 11:48:02 jaem: that's true Dec 13 11:48:03 they bought trolltech because it's the best toolkit for cross platform development, they've been working embedded linux for at least 7 years, and were already preparing their own phone stack Dec 13 11:48:13 Microsoft Windows Services for UNIX 3.5 – enables full POSIX compliance for certain Microsoft Windows products. Windows NT-based operating systems up to Windows 2000 had a POSIX layer built into the operating system, and UNIX Services for Windows provided a UNIX-like operating environment. For Windows XP, Windows Services for UNIX must be installed to provide POSIX compatibility. The UNIX Subsystem is built in to the Enterprise and Ultimate editions of Windows Dec 13 11:48:13 Vista, but cannot be added separately to the other editions. Dec 13 11:48:14 Hi all, Is there any way to hard reset a N900 without removing battery? Dec 13 11:48:33 the financial motivations would not exist if not for the technical superiority of the qt4 toolkit Dec 13 11:48:43 hold power button down, twice ? :) Dec 13 11:48:48 kynky: there's a difference between being something, being like something, and being able to speak something Dec 13 11:48:56 kynky: no Dec 13 11:48:58 mnk, hit it with a hammer? Aside from that, no, not that I'm aware of Dec 13 11:49:02 mnk: define 'hard reset' Dec 13 11:49:13 if you hold power for 10+s while it's unlocked, it should kill itself... Dec 13 11:49:14 you can reboot it if it's still responsive, but I'm not sure how hard of a reset that is Dec 13 11:49:23 my guess is, not entirely Dec 13 11:49:30 heya :) Dec 13 11:49:31 classically hard reset meant wiping the system clean Dec 13 11:49:37 timeless, very true , just POSIX is well defined, but to me POSIXy isnt Dec 13 11:49:42 but then they would cal lit bricked Dec 13 11:49:45 kynky: so, roughly Dec 13 11:49:45 call it Dec 13 11:49:52 i can speak Spanish Dec 13 11:49:56 that doesn't make me Spanish Dec 13 11:49:57 I'm stuck with 5 balls, second ball slightly larger than the other four. Dec 13 11:50:00 guys, where i can get bounce game ? Dec 13 11:50:09 i think i can understand analogies :) Dec 13 11:50:10 nor does it make me a Spaniard, or like a Spaniard (a Mexican?) Dec 13 11:50:22 the windows posix layer is a way to speak another language Dec 13 11:50:27 Anupras, b&q sell trampolines, otherwise it should be available from the repositories Dec 13 11:50:30 go1dfish: I don't know if "technical superiority" counts here. I mean I've not been developing GTK+ a lot, but I don't think that enhancing it would have been such a problem at all. maybe they really wanted to buy knowledge with the QT developers Dec 13 11:50:31 i was referring to the extra "y" Dec 13 11:50:35 it doesn't mean that the windows core design is posix Dec 13 11:50:47 nor does it mean that the windows core design resembles posix (posix-y) Dec 13 11:50:48 And that on the N900 screen I mean :-) Dec 13 11:51:03 ale-x: maybe, trolltech was about to enter into the Phone OS space before they got acquired Dec 13 11:51:08 windows, like me, can speak another language Dec 13 11:51:12 (posix, spanish) Dec 13 11:51:12 and they had been involved in the Zaurus devices for many years Dec 13 11:51:28 go1dfish: hmm, good theory Dec 13 11:51:29 mnk, if it's hanging on boot, you'll have to pull the battery Dec 13 11:51:38 ok, since my FM radio brain cycles are free now, I can take one more project to my UI forge :) Dec 13 11:51:38 is it doing this repeatedly? Dec 13 11:51:48 i dreamt last night that the n900 would be finally on stock with a reasonable price Dec 13 11:51:54 whih inferred to me from saying its milk to something milk*y* doesnt mean milky stuff is milk, just it may demonstrate some of same properties, which is what i was saying when i said windows comment Dec 13 11:51:55 With hard reset I mean something similar to holding the power button for 5 seconds on any modern PC. Dec 13 11:52:21 mnk: pull the battery out Dec 13 11:52:27 kynky: more like calling apple juice milky Dec 13 11:52:28 quite analogous Dec 13 11:52:29 mnk, yeah, but if it hasn't booted far enough for the power button to work, pulling the battery is the only way Dec 13 11:52:30 jaem, Ok, I will do that... Dec 13 11:52:32 OldNugget: hi, do you plan to develop for maemo? Dec 13 11:52:35 holding the power button 5 seconds just cuts power Dec 13 11:52:42 removing the battery will do the same ;) Dec 13 11:52:44 timeless_mbp, yes, after putting some instant milk powder in the juice Dec 13 11:52:54 jaem: heh, sure Dec 13 11:52:55 go1dfish: again, I was just curious, imho there are pros and cons for each toolkits and I've to admit I'm quite curious about how the QT desktop and stuff will perform on N900 and following devices Dec 13 11:52:58 go1dfish, I thought the power button was completely software controlled Dec 13 11:53:08 <_claesbas> Anyone been able to get hold of the new ThemeMaker 1.2.5..? garage is down and has been now since yesterday Dec 13 11:53:20 _claesbas: i think i just trashed it Dec 13 11:53:23 jaem: im referring to a desktop pc, holding a powerbutton for 5 seconds on a ATX desktop Dec 13 11:53:29 <_claesbas> timeless, :( Dec 13 11:53:32 power button is entirely software controlled on the n900 Dec 13 11:53:34 well proper apple juice is cloudy :) , the cheap stuff isnt Dec 13 11:53:42 [ThemeMaker1.2.6] Dec 13 11:53:44 ale-x, I haven't actually coded with GTK, but the code looks ugly to me, and what I've seen of Qt just seems to Make Sense (TM) and work nicely Dec 13 11:53:49 _claesbas: it's still in my trash Dec 13 11:53:50 go1dfish, oh, yes Dec 13 11:53:53 it requires Fink to be installed Dec 13 11:53:55 was just saying pulling the battery is equivilant Dec 13 11:53:58 <_claesbas> timeless, ah, great Dec 13 11:54:02 (which is totally broken as a mac os x goes) Dec 13 11:54:09 if you want the .zip, i can put it up somewhere Dec 13 11:54:10 <_claesbas> timeless, could you please email to claes.norin@gmail.com ? Dec 13 11:54:12 are there any apps for n900 that looks really crappy? Dec 13 11:54:13 hi folks, Dec 13 11:54:22 wazd, yep Dec 13 11:54:28 who's the responsible for the extras devel repo? Dec 13 11:54:29 wazd, I think so - give me a moment Dec 13 11:54:35 oh, yes - ATI85 Dec 13 11:54:36 just kidding Dec 13 11:54:38 jaem: ah, GTK+ can be a bit messy if you are not careful enough. That's the big disadvantage with GTK+: C. Dec 13 11:54:41 it's gorgeous Dec 13 11:54:41 jaem: die :D Dec 13 11:54:43 jaem: agreed gtk is quite ugly in comparison to equivilant qt code Dec 13 11:54:44 guys where is possible to download bounce ? Dec 13 11:54:55 but can potentially be faster, given the c, vs c++ nature Dec 13 11:54:56 from extras Dec 13 11:55:01 for bounce Dec 13 11:55:04 go1dfish, meh Dec 13 11:55:08 I mean the crapiest app Dec 13 11:55:11 kynky, I think Anupras means the full version Dec 13 11:55:17 "but useful" Dec 13 11:55:30 go1dfish: you can always write c++ applications as fast as C applications Dec 13 11:55:31 wazd, pyrecipe could use some work Dec 13 11:55:33 no, at least demo Dec 13 11:55:34 I wanted to know about a package I asked to be built but the update won't appear Dec 13 11:55:36 even though the code looks the same then :-) Dec 13 11:55:43 i still can not find where is the download for it Dec 13 11:55:45 the icons are cryptic, and some of the UI is just ugly Dec 13 11:55:55 different screens have different formatting and such Dec 13 11:56:00 but it's a neat app Dec 13 11:56:08 Anupras: use the app manager on the device Dec 13 11:56:19 enable the disabled extras rep Dec 13 11:56:24 Markus23: I don't claim to be an expert on this subject, but I know people who do, and from what I understand c++ compilers are not able to achieve anywhere near the same optimiation as a straight c compiler Dec 13 11:56:28 Anupras, yes, as a rule, you don't need to manually download apps (although you can) Dec 13 11:56:30 on to something different: did anyone already have success in getting SDK+ to work with fremantle?? Dec 13 11:56:34 please say yes! Dec 13 11:56:36 jaem: can you show me some screenshots please? Dec 13 11:56:43 wazd, one moment Dec 13 11:56:48 jaem: I don't have anything to check it Dec 13 11:57:06 realizing of course that c is a subset of c++ Dec 13 11:57:17 go1dfish: dont see any reason why e.g. gcc should not apply the same optimizations on c and c++ code Dec 13 11:57:26 but the extra features necessetaded by c++ prevent certain optimizations that are possible to c code Dec 13 11:57:26 go1dfish: C isn't a valid subset of C++ Dec 13 11:57:28 for c++ you need of course much more optimization techniques... Dec 13 11:57:31 wazd, it's not terrible, but it isn't pretty either Dec 13 11:57:37 again, this is not my area of expertise Dec 13 11:57:38 (recent versions of C violate some rules of C++ in sadly incompatible ways) Dec 13 11:57:42 go1dfish: hmm, in earlier days, C++ used to generate C code and compile it. don't know if that counts though Dec 13 11:58:04 with whole program optimization (which doesn't work as well if you deal w/ .so's), c++ compilers can recover some of that Dec 13 11:58:12 timeless_mbp: it is not, but all programming techniques and paradigm from C can be used 1:1 in C++ Dec 13 11:58:15 wazd, actually never mind... I was misremembering it Dec 13 11:58:29 really the only issue is just the main screen icons, which I'll send you a picture of Dec 13 11:58:38 but really, the value of C++ is that it's easier to write code with it, and faster to write that code Dec 13 11:58:45 ale-x: thats not possible anymore Dec 13 11:58:48 you can still shoot yourself in the foot with either language, of course Dec 13 11:58:49 a couple of them are not at all apparent Dec 13 11:58:49 timeless_mbp: certainly Dec 13 11:58:49 jaem: :) Dec 13 11:58:55 Markus23: I know Dec 13 11:59:00 (and most people do) Dec 13 11:59:03 thnks guys Dec 13 11:59:03 i found it Dec 13 11:59:22 timeless_mbp, #include foot.shoot(); Dec 13 11:59:23 most of the ugliness of GTK comes from trying to crowbar the benefits of C++ into C without compiler changes Dec 13 11:59:31 timeless_mbp: idiots will shoot themselves in the foot regardless of what tools you give them Dec 13 11:59:34 C++ is a massive language to learn, how many people use the friends thing in c++ ? Dec 13 11:59:55 kynky, not I Dec 13 12:00:05 kynky: i use friend Dec 13 12:00:16 kynky: fully agree on that Dec 13 12:00:16 not except in the odd lab exercise Dec 13 12:00:30 * timeless_mbp uses friend in real code Dec 13 12:00:39 kynky: but friend is a rather common feature compared to what templates can do Dec 13 12:00:39 * timeless_mbp isn't going to claim it's the best way of doing things Dec 13 12:00:50 arguably friend is about violating apis for private contracts Dec 13 12:00:50 "If you think C++ is not overly complicated, just what is a protected abstract virtual base pure virtual private destructor, and when was the last time you needed one?" -- Tom Cargil, C++ Journal Dec 13 12:00:54 templates are awesome though :) Dec 13 12:01:43 xorAxAx: ? private and protected at the same time? Dec 13 12:01:47 does somebody see whats wrong here? i get "dpkg-genchanges: warning: unknown information field `Xb-Maemo-Icon-26' in input data in package's section of control info file Dec 13 12:01:48 templates tend to be bad for code size :( Dec 13 12:01:52 but when c++ language was designed, i didnt think they thought of templates Dec 13 12:01:58 " -- http://paste.pocoo.org/show/156630/ Dec 13 12:02:14 templates are good for compiled code size Dec 13 12:02:20 Markus23: the base class is protected Dec 13 12:02:38 wazd, http://imagebin.ca/view/UpHDBaw.html Dec 13 12:02:44 timeless_mbp: yes, thats true, but there are techniques to reduce it a lot by using a implementation which is not a template Dec 13 12:02:51 does anybody have an idea? Dec 13 12:03:04 anyway, i'm out for a while Dec 13 12:03:11 wazd, the two that are weird are the second and third from the left Dec 13 12:03:19 xorAxAx: ok :-) Dec 13 12:03:20 the second from the left shows the recipe that's selected Dec 13 12:03:27 and the middle one edits it Dec 13 12:03:34 but I had to guess Dec 13 12:03:37 jaem: and missing toolbar :) Dec 13 12:03:46 wazd, ? Dec 13 12:03:47 xorAxAx: make a space before "XB-Maemo-Icon-26:" Dec 13 12:03:48 jaem: otherwise not really bad Dec 13 12:03:51 oh Dec 13 12:03:53 Markus23: ok Dec 13 12:03:53 I see Dec 13 12:03:54 yeah Dec 13 12:04:00 xorAxAx: sorry Dec 13 12:04:04 jaem: 5 buttous instead of bottom toolbar Dec 13 12:04:10 xorAxAx: it is an extension I am not aware about Dec 13 12:04:13 wazd, yeah, just caught that Dec 13 12:06:10 xorAxAx: when you make the space it will be a part of the description, dont know if XB-Maemo-Icon-26 is meant to be used like that Dec 13 12:06:48 I tend to repeat myself somehow: Is anyone using SDK+? or do you all develop on N900 directly? Dec 13 12:06:56 * RST38h goes over the tmo new-posts. Things got bad enough to start causing perverse interest in what ELSE these people can come up with Dec 13 12:07:11 "Let me explain...If we take an N900 with a hypothetical $500 price and compare the hardware internals of an identically priced laptop, it is clear that the N900 should cost about $150-200." Dec 13 12:08:10 17 programs/windows running on N900 atm. iphone is a toy by comparison! Dec 13 12:08:20 is that a laptop in your pocket, or are you just pleased to see me ? Dec 13 12:08:25 RST38h: yeah, but size matters :-) Dec 13 12:08:33 RST38h: lol Dec 13 12:08:40 "Hi everybody. I was reading some tweets where some guys reported that they are playing quake 3 with tv out on the n900. " Dec 13 12:08:46 who writes this foolishness Dec 13 12:08:50 lol Dec 13 12:08:52 kynky: double lol Dec 13 12:09:09 ManuelSE: Apparently, humans Dec 13 12:09:23 cool, have to try pyrecipe Dec 13 12:09:30 RST38h: no, those are not humans, they are trolls Dec 13 12:09:30 http://pyrecipe.garage.maemo.org/+ Dec 13 12:09:30 can i get yellow bar to show the copied text to buffer? Dec 13 12:09:35 "Hey, I want to share with you guys this link, where you can download easy any mp3 music on your devices for free." Dec 13 12:09:36 sorry, s/+// Dec 13 12:10:00 RST38h, are you being the interface between talk.maemo.org and irc? Dec 13 12:10:06 rst tmo is like other consumer product forums Dec 13 12:10:26 that appeal to kids Dec 13 12:11:02 lcuk: I am considering switching from dailyrotten to tmo for my daily dose of human idiocy Dec 13 12:11:17 lcuk: Think it is worth it? Dec 13 12:11:32 joined: Nov 2009, posts: 725 Dec 13 12:11:43 how do they do that Dec 13 12:11:47 my opinion on tmo, is that you have to go through so much waffle to get the little gems of info, i think ppl just post to get their post count up mostly, my post count is the best, its at 0 , only need 5 more till i can pm Dec 13 12:11:49 they do not read Dec 13 12:11:52 haven't you known? Dec 13 12:12:14 wazd its easy Dec 13 12:12:23 i managed half a million words in irc over 1 year ;) Dec 13 12:12:34 yes RST38h Dec 13 12:12:34 20 posts a day Dec 13 12:12:39 lcuk <-- a prolific writer indeed =) Dec 13 12:12:43 * timeless grumbles Dec 13 12:12:46 without brakes :) Dec 13 12:12:52 anyone here use MfE? Dec 13 12:13:02 wazd: there are some seriously obsessed people there too Dec 13 12:13:16 MfE doesnt work for gmail , so not using yet Dec 13 12:13:39 i just discovered another reason to shoot someone Dec 13 12:13:46 ... ? Dec 13 12:13:54 RST38h, we should have auto tweet from top post of tmo Dec 13 12:13:58 every 5 minutes Dec 13 12:14:07 mind you, it would make twitter meltdown Dec 13 12:14:11 RST38h: also, current trend: "I don't know waht to do with theme template" Dec 13 12:14:12 lcuk: I think there is some script on tmo that does it Dec 13 12:14:20 fail whale? Dec 13 12:14:24 nahhh thats just the users Dec 13 12:14:37 wetware scripting Dec 13 12:14:45 wazd: "If you do not know, it is not going to be of any interest to you" Dec 13 12:14:46 * timeless frowns Dec 13 12:14:52 * RST38h started answering this way lately Dec 13 12:15:05 timeless, indeed :D Dec 13 12:15:18 what would be the tmo failed mascot Dec 13 12:15:37 huh, the maemo 5 webbrowser uses an enforced proxy?!? Dec 13 12:15:44 lcuk: a newt. Dec 13 12:15:46 whats the issue with the garage maintenance? Dec 13 12:15:57 xorAxAx, really ? Dec 13 12:16:08 it does? Dec 13 12:16:09 * RST38h noticed that fbreader STILL did not make it to the repository Dec 13 12:16:14 kynky: ovi store says i am not supported because my device is called like a proxy Dec 13 12:16:30 xorAxAx: that is your isp? Dec 13 12:16:36 no, valdyn Dec 13 12:16:42 xor: store.ovi.mobi? Dec 13 12:16:45 xorAxAx, try diff user agent ? Dec 13 12:16:54 yeah isp , lol Dec 13 12:17:05 http://ovi.mobi/store/maps Dec 13 12:17:07 has someone experience with open-xchange and n900? Dec 13 12:17:09 xor: microb does not use a proxy unless you configure your connection to have one Dec 13 12:17:09 why not put your commercial app in repository non-free, and charge for activation Dec 13 12:17:09 RST38h: you should definitely know some awful looking maemo 5 app Dec 13 12:17:18 timeless: good to know Dec 13 12:17:24 wazd: Of course I do Dec 13 12:17:31 xorAxAx: "Sorry, we can't find that page." Dec 13 12:17:38 how do i upload a picture from a script to tmo Dec 13 12:17:50 given threadid, username, password, picture filename Dec 13 12:17:50 wazd: First of all, you can probably do the new FBReader toolbar and other icons if you feel like it Dec 13 12:17:54 http://ovi.mobi/services/maps Dec 13 12:18:14 wazd: Secondly, there is Maemo Mapper Dec 13 12:18:18 lcuk, sounds ripe for abuse Dec 13 12:18:28 wazd: The map is find but the icons and some other UI is kinda awful right now Dec 13 12:18:33 s/find/fine/ Dec 13 12:18:34 RST38h meant: wazd: The map is fine but the icons and some other UI is kinda awful right now Dec 13 12:18:35 i waiting for that cygnit , tomtom like app for n900 Dec 13 12:18:58 pupnik_, i stopped listening to you when you spouted nazi crap in my channel Dec 13 12:19:12 xorAxAx: works fine using an actual proxy Dec 13 12:19:25 xorAxAx: but that doesnt change my id string Dec 13 12:19:32 nazi crap? interesting =) Dec 13 12:19:41 private or public proxy valdyn ? Dec 13 12:19:49 kynky: private Dec 13 12:20:08 RST38h: can you show me FBreader icons? Dec 13 12:20:49 valdyn, maybe you got your proxy set up so it doesnt look like a proxy Dec 13 12:20:49 No one used n900 with a non-microsoft based exchange server? Dec 13 12:21:02 you can do lots of things with proxies Dec 13 12:21:31 wazd: http://fms.komkon.org/fbreader-0.10.7-4_fms.tgz Dec 13 12:21:41 Markus23: how would that be possible? Exchange is a MS product. Dec 13 12:21:52 wazd: fbreader/data/icons/transparent-32x32-old/ is what I am using for the toolbar right now Dec 13 12:21:53 3.0Mb of icons? :D Dec 13 12:22:01 i tohught euros were meant to be waterproof o_O Dec 13 12:22:03 killefiz: http://www.open-xchange.com Dec 13 12:22:06 wazd: weeeeelll... :) Dec 13 12:22:09 RST38h: :D Dec 13 12:22:13 the way exchange does its mojo has been copied in other server products Dec 13 12:22:14 wazd: and there are some other relevant icons there Dec 13 12:22:23 kynky: stock squid, nothing special about it Dec 13 12:23:33 RST38h: your hosting is damn slow :) Dec 13 12:23:40 hmm, is it possible to have programs as hildon-home widgets instead of shared libs? Dec 13 12:23:46 it doesnt seem to work for me Dec 13 12:23:54 valdyn, the special thing about squid is squid itself, lots of rubbish proxies out there, squid is fantastic, think squid just passes on info, and doesnt say its squid by default, as in changing data, but not 100% sure Dec 13 12:23:55 wazd: too many leechers! =) Dec 13 12:24:05 kynky: right Dec 13 12:25:02 kynky valdyn: I'm pretty sure Squid add the X-Via -headers by default Dec 13 12:25:11 but no changing user-agent or somesuch crap... Dec 13 12:25:26 RST38h: I wonder how can I get Dl speed about 3.0 KB/s from 15 seeders Dec 13 12:25:34 RST38h: do you know anything bout that? Dec 13 12:25:43 no idea =) Dec 13 12:26:06 wazd: no uploads? Dec 13 12:26:06 but my experience with torrent has been patchy as well Dec 13 12:26:17 sorry. Via is standard HTTP header, X-Cache -headers... Dec 13 12:26:21 20kB/s today, 780kB/s tomorrow Dec 13 12:26:27 wazd: being a seeder also does not imply that they actually upload Dec 13 12:26:35 depends on where they are Dec 13 12:26:43 wazd: but your case would usually be that you dont upload Dec 13 12:27:42 lol Dec 13 12:29:11 wazd: btw, by "undo" and "redo" FBReader means going through the navigation history afaik Dec 13 12:30:39 was thinking of getting a portable power supply for n900, rather than buying a spare battery, and swapping all time, something like this good ? http://www.portablepowersupplies.co.uk/usbliionbatterypack.htm , or is there better ? Dec 13 12:31:36 kynky: cheaper than the one from nokia i guess? Dec 13 12:31:57 i guess so :) Dec 13 12:32:18 neat and small Dec 13 12:32:40 but wears down like laptop batteries =/ Dec 13 12:32:50 http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.18883 Dec 13 12:33:09 18650 cells can be bought separately when they wear down Dec 13 12:33:37 kynky: charging isn't implemented by special high efficiency techniques. Everything getting warm and external power source has to supply the power for your handswarmer Dec 13 12:33:45 though this set does not have micro-USB adapter. Dec 13 12:34:16 spare battery has advantage of compactness Dec 13 12:35:03 got a usb to micro-usb cable with n900 Dec 13 12:35:12 sure... Dec 13 12:35:33 and the included adapter cable is bound to break sooner or later Dec 13 12:35:52 I don't particularly like those retractable cables just for that reason Dec 13 12:36:00 so external power source is for situations where power is really cheap Dec 13 12:36:22 spare battery is expensive, already got a battery charger for bl-5j (n900 battery), although it is small, not fancy taking back cover off on n900 too much Dec 13 12:36:35 i can power it at work :) Dec 13 12:37:09 i seen the ones which take 4AA batteries instead, but you can charge the 1 i said at same time as using it :) Dec 13 12:37:50 mashiara, no need to use suppied cable with that product, it has usb out , so use cable that came with n900 , usb to micro usb Dec 13 12:37:59 I know... Dec 13 12:38:07 was just complaining... Dec 13 12:38:11 oh, my bad :) Dec 13 12:38:37 Another contraption: http://www.qaiku.com/home/rambo/show/1dea564a57cea54a56411debcdcdb6e6b542f9b2f9b/ Dec 13 12:38:51 built if before getting the DX setup Dec 13 12:39:30 just before the Netherlands Summit Dec 13 12:39:41 sweet Dec 13 12:40:38 any word from nokia on bypassing compositor and pulseaudio yet? Dec 13 12:42:00 RST38h: new icons are shiny :) Dec 13 12:42:42 mashiara, that contraption would possibly not get on a plane! Dec 13 12:42:47 i have one that looks like a bomb Dec 13 12:42:47 the default mediaplayer with ac3 plugin doesnt work too well with ac3 films, so had to use mplayer. gotta say "mplayer -fs -framedrop " is handy Dec 13 12:42:53 it glows red when plugged in too Dec 13 12:43:00 Icuk: I had no trouble getting it in a plane... Dec 13 12:43:12 cool then Dec 13 12:43:27 mashiara, that link for flashlight plus charger thing was good Dec 13 12:43:45 the flashlight is pretty handy too Dec 13 12:43:51 *very* bright... Dec 13 12:44:05 I wonder how many hours the led is going to really last... Dec 13 12:44:14 lcuk, they had no choice to not let him on the plane, it looked like a bomb :) Dec 13 12:44:17 * mashiara has a feeling it's being rudely overdriven Dec 13 12:44:28 o_O Dec 13 12:45:08 how long would it last for ? Dec 13 12:45:21 wouldnt imagine long Dec 13 12:45:28 for n900 that is Dec 13 12:45:40 oh the small thing... Dec 13 12:45:49 not long... Dec 13 12:46:03 otoh I managed a full charge to n810 from it Dec 13 12:46:16 :) Dec 13 12:46:18 what's the name of the menu that has the clock? Dec 13 12:46:33 status menu/area Dec 13 12:47:19 so it might surprise you. contrary to my promise I have not yet tested the frankencharger with a 18650 cell yet Dec 13 12:47:30 but the logic IC should be able to handle one Dec 13 12:47:38 and those pack a lot of power... Dec 13 12:47:50 those 18650 cells are 2200mah :) Dec 13 12:49:18 available also in 2500mAh Dec 13 12:49:53 why is bl-5j only 1390mah ? Dec 13 12:49:55 but it's the 4.7V lithium chemistry that makes the big difference here Dec 13 12:49:56 the mAh is a lie! Dec 13 12:50:02 kynky: the size Dec 13 12:50:07 mashiara: 3.7 Dec 13 12:50:13 sorry, typo... Dec 13 12:50:26 kynky: Work out the volume of the bl-5j - and the volume of an 18650 Dec 13 12:50:50 and add the fact the most 18650 cells leave out protection circuits... Dec 13 12:50:57 My GPSs 800mAh battery died, and it grew an 18650 on the side. Dec 13 12:51:15 the protection circuits volume is essentially negligable Dec 13 12:51:35 as is cost, but someone is always cutting them... Dec 13 12:51:58 It's not - it's a sizeable fraction of a dollar Dec 13 12:52:05 that is important in some apps Dec 13 12:52:25 true... Dec 13 12:52:29 it is of course a terrorist plot. Dec 13 12:52:47 then there's the RC batteries where every gram of weight counts Dec 13 12:52:57 no protection, no casing Dec 13 12:53:18 * mashiara hasn't yet burned any helis Dec 13 12:53:37 crashed one a few times tough... Dec 13 12:53:37 so n900 is deemed as low current draw so those 18650 are ideal for external on the go power sources ? Dec 13 12:53:37 And insane people making RC helicopters that weigh under a gram Dec 13 12:53:49 kynky: pretty much. Dec 13 12:54:19 AndrewFBlack: Hi! Dec 13 12:54:23 SpeedEvil, and mashiara much thx for info, will do some more googling Dec 13 12:54:39 18650 = 18mm dia * 65mm long Dec 13 12:56:19 O_o_O Nethack!!! w00t Dec 13 12:56:27 * w00t glares at sejo Dec 13 12:56:30 :P Dec 13 12:56:32 sejo, the 3d one ? Dec 13 12:56:35 * sejo 's addiction twitching coming back Dec 13 12:56:45 kynky: yeah installing it now Dec 13 12:57:06 sejo: It sucks. Dec 13 12:57:17 guys, is it possible to play runescape on n900 ? Dec 13 12:57:24 sejo: The 3d totally obscures the fundamental mechanics IMO. Dec 13 12:57:29 aww chucks SpeedEvil Dec 13 12:57:35 YMMV Dec 13 12:57:40 Argh! A yeti! Dec 13 12:57:54 Anupras: ewww, runescape Dec 13 12:58:14 I think it uses java, so thnk god no Dec 13 12:58:25 so ? :) Dec 13 12:58:36 yeah it uses java... Dec 13 12:58:45 i got bored with crysis on n900, needed something more graphically intensive to demonstrate power of n900 Dec 13 12:58:59 * lcuk forgot twitter existed lol Dec 13 12:59:02 bounce! All 2 levels. Dec 13 12:59:22 kynky, liqflow :) Dec 13 12:59:32 :) Dec 13 12:59:34 200 rectangles never looked so food Dec 13 12:59:40 good even Dec 13 12:59:43 * lcuk gahs Dec 13 13:00:03 kynky: crysis runs on n900? Dec 13 13:00:03 lcuk: you should be able to theme the rectangles. After-8, ryvita, ... Dec 13 13:00:20 SpeedEvil, actually i can Dec 13 13:00:27 ive got alphablended ones and sketches Dec 13 13:00:33 draw a star Dec 13 13:00:35 and use that instead Dec 13 13:01:03 lcuk, i googled liqflow , and your name is in top search for it :) Dec 13 13:01:06 at the long weekend we started to sort out proper prefernece dialogs for this sort of stuff Dec 13 13:01:11 of course Dec 13 13:01:13 i wrote it Dec 13 13:01:23 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yk27PenpAz0 Dec 13 13:02:33 so beat detection ? Dec 13 13:02:43 no Dec 13 13:02:50 thats accelerometer controlled Dec 13 13:02:56 its responding to the banging on the table Dec 13 13:03:04 in what repo is liqflow at? Dec 13 13:03:05 oh, hence the slapping on the table ? Dec 13 13:03:13 maemo-testing Dec 13 13:03:14 extras-devel? Dec 13 13:03:21 yeah kynky Dec 13 13:03:21 2441 1181 user R 63372 25.7 85.5 /usr/sbin/browserd -s 2441 -n browserui Dec 13 13:03:24 how about http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.23567? 10Ah :) Dec 13 13:03:25 jamming along Dec 13 13:03:34 how do i see which webpage is eating cpu? Dec 13 13:03:35 extras-testing sorry Dec 13 13:03:43 (ok, 2Ah really) Dec 13 13:03:57 be good if projectm worked on n900, although it does exist for libvisual, and there is a libvisual gstreamer plugin Dec 13 13:04:56 * lcuk likes to just rotate the screen and stuff, before you draw anything the particles fall like rain Dec 13 13:06:26 xorAxAx, so the output is like a normal 5V usb powr supply from pc ? Dec 13 13:06:53 kynky: no, its likely less but enough to charge Dec 13 13:07:37 says its 5.2v output on site Dec 13 13:08:55 5.2 is within the USB spec Dec 13 13:09:14 * DocScrutinizer51 sighs Dec 13 13:09:16 3.3v is low power usb ? Dec 13 13:09:33 no Dec 13 13:09:39 USB is always 5V Dec 13 13:10:08 It woudl be cool if there was a 30V mode - but there isn't. Dec 13 13:10:31 P=VA Dec 13 13:25:10 * timeless sighs Dec 13 13:25:24 someone remind me to slap the next ovi rep i meet Dec 13 13:25:37 12/11/2009, 15:44 Dec 13 13:25:40 eep Dec 13 13:25:50 http://store.ovi.mobi/default/index/incompatible Dec 13 13:26:03 there's a link in the center of the page Dec 13 13:26:08 but afaict it lies Dec 13 13:31:13 could someone please load that page in their n900's browser? Dec 13 13:33:07 "we're sorry, ovi store is currently not available for your device" Dec 13 13:33:24 "A bit dissapointed with the N900" (C)Anwarboy11 Dec 13 13:33:35 God, please, make more of them get disappointed... Dec 13 13:34:04 why Dec 13 13:34:05 timeless: You mean STORE_URL_LABEL? :) Dec 13 13:34:14 sell more n900 Dec 13 13:34:42 Choice quote: "BTW - is there an msn client available anywhere?, and another email client? i have an ancient @msn.com account and i can't seem to get it set up on the n900." Dec 13 13:35:00 timeless: Which expands to .../index/STORE_URL? Dec 13 13:35:07 you helped n900 very much rst38h thank you for your programs Dec 13 13:35:17 :# Dec 13 13:36:09 * RST38h prays to the Tentacled One to get all these kids disappointed with N900 and go away Dec 13 13:36:56 That will be something like 10-20 total customer base lost to Nokia, but it will make tmo a better place... Dec 13 13:40:56 i make new app for n900 Dec 13 13:42:18 http://parisfacial.ytmnd.com it display this when screen sleeps Dec 13 13:42:41 range: so.. Dec 13 13:42:49 can you click help at the bottom? Dec 13 13:43:06 Umm, wait. Dec 13 13:43:06 for me, it sends me back to the same error page Dec 13 13:44:00 do you actually see STORE_URL_LABEL in the ui? Dec 13 13:44:07 Yes. Dec 13 13:44:13 As I do on the PC. Dec 13 13:44:18 And no, Help doesn't work. Dec 13 13:44:29 range: pictures/save, and please complain Dec 13 13:44:45 not surre how, since obviously help doesn't work.. Dec 13 13:44:49 How do I snapshot? Dec 13 13:44:51 s/rr/r/ Dec 13 13:44:51 timeless meant: not sure how, since obviously help doesn't work.. Dec 13 13:45:07 ctrl-shift-p on n900 Dec 13 13:45:23 print-screen on windows and paste into mspaint Dec 13 13:45:45 on w7 use snipping tool Dec 13 13:45:53 Nono, n900. Dec 13 13:45:58 Mac I know :) Dec 13 13:46:18 oh good, because explaining os x key strokes from this n900 sucks Dec 13 13:49:47 http://oerks.de/~ralph/screenshot00.png is what it looks like on the n900 Dec 13 13:49:55 Complain to who? Dec 13 13:52:38 RST38h: I thought it takes some time until the ovi store is available? Dec 13 13:52:46 sorry, RST38h, i mean range Dec 13 13:54:13 timeless: Again, I'm always for complaining, but ovi is not a product in bugzilla, I guess :) Dec 13 13:55:41 range: no, but that screen is part of a product, and STORE_URL_LABEL is obviously a bug Dec 13 13:56:26 or is this screenshot from the web browser on n900? Dec 13 13:56:32 Yupp. Dec 13 13:56:45 That's what you get when you visit store.ovi.mobi. Dec 13 13:57:16 range: where did you buy your n900? Dec 13 13:57:47 On the intarweb. Dec 13 13:57:53 Noki.a Dec 13 13:58:12 the official shop? ok Dec 13 14:00:43 anyone got the offscr-speedometer Dec 13 14:00:45 application :( Dec 13 14:00:47 i want it Dec 13 14:02:38 what Dec 13 14:02:52 I want modest to work correctly and don't get that either, so ... :) Dec 13 14:03:59 ctrl+i for xchat pls Dec 13 14:04:36 thp: have you yet implemented the icons and the new quick action prompt in gpodder? Dec 13 14:05:25 hey Dec 13 14:05:28 Garage is still down? Dec 13 14:06:26 Ceron^: did you get even one of the offscr apps? Dec 13 14:07:06 ManualSE: have you tried changing nick complete from tab to ctrl-i in xchat's key shortcut settings? Dec 13 14:07:18 dunno if that too crashes or not Dec 13 14:07:54 menu - settings - advanced - keyboard shorcuts Dec 13 14:08:12 thank you. i keep crashing settings Dec 13 14:08:20 I've just tried to install an Ubuntu Kramic 32 bits virtual machine as I thought it was the best choice as a devel. env., but it seems I was wrong. My laptop itself is running Debian Lenny 64 bits, so I think I still have to install a 32 bits VM. What you guys advise me to install as a dev. VM ??? Dec 13 14:08:47 What is the target of the dev kit? It's made for WHAT ??? Dec 13 14:09:37 huh? i installed the sdk on lenny 64 bit without problems Dec 13 14:09:46 maybe you go back and rtfm :P Dec 13 14:10:06 using vbox give segfault for new sdk ... only vmplayer worked fopr me Dec 13 14:10:43 cehteh: I guess you installed the beta version, then. Dec 13 14:10:49 The GUI installer just fails here... Dec 13 14:10:50 nope final Dec 13 14:10:53 Oh. Dec 13 14:11:01 I'll try again then. Thanks. Dec 13 14:11:03 cehteh: ohh, have debian lenny 64bit here too, any tips for install? Dec 13 14:11:15 does even the gui installer work? Dec 13 14:13:52 settings - preferences crashes for everyone else too Dec 13 14:14:07 When I start it, it says "Using SDK on X86_64 is not supported, but you can install it anyway. Dec 13 14:14:17 no gui installer, used the instructions on the sdk site, there was a note for 64bit, cant find it now Dec 13 14:14:20 cehteh: Should I ignore and do it still? Dec 13 14:14:56 cehteh: Thanks, I'll try the GUI one first. Dec 13 14:15:05 hello Dec 13 14:15:11 keepin it real Dec 13 14:15:28 ok, thank you Dec 13 14:15:33 well if it tells it isnt supported on 64 bit then its not .. at least the gui installer might not set the proper switches Dec 13 14:15:58 i dont even know there is a gui installer .. is there a new release? Dec 13 14:17:30 redeeman: nope :p+ Dec 13 14:17:45 http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo5_Final_Installation#Installing_Maemo_5_SDK_on_x86-32_Debian_based_distribution Dec 13 14:17:57 redeeman: lucky bastards some ppl got all of them Dec 13 14:17:58 use vmware. Dec 13 14:18:04 (or vitualbox) Dec 13 14:18:13 or kvm Dec 13 14:18:21 well you dont need to Dec 13 14:18:28 it works well as native install Dec 13 14:18:56 as a dev who failed to get kvm anywhere useful.. Dec 13 14:21:01 scratchbox.org is SOOOOOOOOOOOO slow from here... Dec 13 14:21:06 10Kbits/s Dec 13 14:24:33 heh Dec 13 14:24:42 are you tethering? :) Dec 13 14:25:09 hm. i couldnt get wifi tethering working on my n810 to my g1. wtf Dec 13 14:26:32 RST38h: around? Dec 13 14:27:57 yep Dec 13 14:28:27 RST38h: what icons do you want for FBReader? solid white like maemo5's? Dec 13 14:29:14 cehteh: thank you for the link Dec 13 14:29:53 wazd: you there? Dec 13 14:30:03 this crash-reporter thing.. I hope it's meant to be used Dec 13 14:30:27 naxxatoe: I'm here :) Dec 13 14:30:30 wazd: the best thingw ould be going with the default theme Dec 13 14:30:41 of the n900, so it feels consistant Dec 13 14:30:42 as for colors Dec 13 14:30:42 wazd: Good question Dec 13 14:30:47 i would prefer light grey Dec 13 14:30:50 over white Dec 13 14:30:54 as it distracts less Dec 13 14:31:22 naxxatoe: well, grey can be interpreted as "disabled" Dec 13 14:31:35 naxxatoe: a bit confusing Dec 13 14:31:44 lerned this lessonw hilst building a presentation tool (presenters screen, multiscreen enabled and so on) called douf00 ;) Dec 13 14:31:49 mhh if grey isnt a option Dec 13 14:31:56 gimme a sec Dec 13 14:31:57 turn brightness down if you want grey Dec 13 14:32:12 wazd: I am almost inclined to say that they should be in the same style as Hildon's FullScreen icon Dec 13 14:32:18 wazd: do you have a n900 in front of you? Dec 13 14:32:22 naxxatoe: since maemo 5 toolbar icons are white, don't think that there's a reason no to follow Dec 13 14:32:33 naxxatoe: never ask me again :D Dec 13 14:32:37 ;) Dec 13 14:32:43 wazd: i.e. simple, solid, white Dec 13 14:32:51 RST38h: yeha, my POV too Dec 13 14:33:00 i would prefer to do a very light grey Dec 13 14:33:09 wazd: but the Satan is asking me "isn't this too boring?" Dec 13 14:33:17 and a darker grey for disabled Dec 13 14:33:24 i dont mean linke grey grey Dec 13 14:33:30 all i am saying is not pure white Dec 13 14:33:44 as that is highly distracting when reading text Dec 13 14:33:47 naxxatoe: what application are you talking about? Dec 13 14:33:49 RST38h: current FBR icons are shiny and fun! :D Dec 13 14:33:59 wazd: yea, right... Dec 13 14:34:52 naxxatoe: well, I can make a special VIP grey version for you only :D Dec 13 14:35:02 naxxatoe: not a big deal actially Dec 13 14:35:03 i can fix that myself Dec 13 14:35:06 actually* Dec 13 14:35:07 wazd: BTW, there was one more type of icons: http://www.fbreader.org/maemo/screenshots/start-default.png Dec 13 14:35:33 2006, sheesh :D Dec 13 14:35:34 wazd: i.e. using white accented navy blue may also be ok Dec 13 14:35:58 those themes were epic :D Dec 13 14:35:59 (not that I approve of the images themselves of course) Dec 13 14:36:06 wazd: i was just dumping my thoughts on this in here, in case it helps ;) Dec 13 14:36:27 RST38h: well, maybe you're right bout blue Dec 13 14:36:35 naxxatoe: any feedback counts :) Dec 13 14:36:55 wazd: the maemo5 toolbar is black rather than white though ;) Dec 13 14:38:25 RST38h: I mean white icons with blueish details Dec 13 14:39:39 damn that FM app thread is so frustrating Dec 13 14:40:18 wazd: let me give you a example, i like how the buttons look on Dec 13 14:40:36 naxxatoe: you don't need to ask for my permission :D Dec 13 14:40:44 http://maemo.org/downloads/product/Maemo5/pyrecipe/ Dec 13 14:40:49 but the problem is Dec 13 14:40:54 they are too strong white Dec 13 14:41:12 Hello, when tethering The n900 in windows the PC Suite modem driver has properties tab for changing the maximum link speed Dec 13 14:41:26 maximum setting on the dropdown list is 921kbps Dec 13 14:41:29 the iconset is nice, but the white is just too strong, when reading compact text, if they used a very light grey, instead of white, it would look a lot better ;) Dec 13 14:41:38 naxxatoe: well, I can make icon lines thinner so it won't be so distractive Dec 13 14:41:40 red: which is about 7.2mbit Dec 13 14:41:45 now my GPRS connection is 3.6mbps - is there any way to get it higher? Dec 13 14:41:56 arachnist: by what logic? Dec 13 14:41:57 wazd: we will have to see how that scales on a real display Dec 13 14:42:08 3.6mbS?! Dec 13 14:42:14 when you are done, ping me and i will give you feedback - if you want ;) Dec 13 14:42:16 nO FREAKING WAY :d Dec 13 14:42:16 caps( Dec 13 14:42:20 wazd: yes Dec 13 14:42:23 I think he means 3G Dec 13 14:42:26 not GPRS Dec 13 14:42:27 red: 921kbps == 8*921 kbit/s Dec 13 14:42:29 ah, yes Dec 13 14:42:33 naxxatoe: *you'll* have to :D Dec 13 14:42:34 Or she Dec 13 14:42:51 if i dont respond in main channel - /privmsg me ;) Dec 13 14:42:54 afk for a bit Dec 13 14:43:17 red: are you sure the speed advertized is kilobytes per second and not kilobits? Dec 13 14:43:21 SpeedEvil: even EDGE can't do 3MBs Dec 13 14:43:28 wazd: yep Dec 13 14:43:29 edge is slow cwap Dec 13 14:43:35 im on 3G sorry wazd )= Dec 13 14:43:41 wazd: but look at the bright side: the trolls are starting to give up! Dec 13 14:43:46 figure of speech to call it gprs =) Dec 13 14:44:01 RST38h: ah, whatever :) Dec 13 14:44:13 3.6mbps is only the namely speed anyhow Dec 13 14:44:21 best I've gotten to DL was 295KB/sec Dec 13 14:44:31 lcuk: we are now finger colleagues now, you know :D Dec 13 14:44:35 there is no such thing as perfect coverage :p Dec 13 14:44:50 lcuk: I've cut out part of my finger too :D Dec 13 14:44:56 o_O wazd, rly :O what happened Dec 13 14:45:04 did you go to finland too? Dec 13 14:45:05 :P Dec 13 14:45:05 and it wasnt your designing finger was it Dec 13 14:45:06 lcuk: not so drammaticaly ofcourse :) Dec 13 14:45:18 arachnist: tweaked a bit and my link spiid is 1Mpbs now. Dec 13 14:45:26 lcuk: Failed at opening can with cat's food Dec 13 14:45:26 and my max conn is 3.6Mpbs Dec 13 14:45:43 I once cut my finger by smashing a glass bottle while I held it Dec 13 14:45:49 I'm quite sure it's bits and not bytes what the task manager network view is showing Dec 13 14:45:52 lardman: Moo! Dec 13 14:45:54 lcuk: but it was damn bloody :D Dec 13 14:45:56 (durr, but I was much younger at the time) Dec 13 14:46:15 Stskeeps: yeah, damn doors :D Dec 13 14:46:16 I'm downloading 50Kb/sec at the moment, and the manager shows 50% utilization Dec 13 14:46:19 so it has to be correct, Dec 13 14:46:22 red: speedtest.net Dec 13 14:46:30 red: on the actual phone Dec 13 14:46:40 The phones link isn't the problem :) Dec 13 14:46:48 pft! Dec 13 14:46:55 I can achieve at best like 295Kb/s if good coverage Dec 13 14:47:12 wazd, youch, im surprised your cat didnt attack you whn it smelt blood Dec 13 14:47:16 especially if it was hungry Dec 13 14:47:22 but when using the phone as a moden on my PC, (pc suite modem driver) the link it shakes between phone and pc is 1mpbs Dec 13 14:47:24 * lcuk needs to improve typing Dec 13 14:47:55 lcuk: no, you need to invent neural interfaces for the next maemo device Dec 13 14:48:05 (hi btw!:) Dec 13 14:48:17 * SpeedEvil passes lcuk seven stainless steel nails. Dec 13 14:48:36 w00t, thats not a bad idea Dec 13 14:48:51 SpeedEvil, its the keyboard thats a problem Dec 13 14:48:58 my fingers still arent used to it Dec 13 14:50:14 Happy Anniversary to Jayesh Salvi's sdl+opengl problem. Dec 13 14:50:27 Sun Dec 13 15:51:06 CET 2009 Dec 13 14:50:42 SpeedEvil: 921600bps is the real handshake speed between phone + pc Dec 13 14:50:47 http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/maemo/developers/44229 Dec 13 14:51:01 the link speeds dont have much meaning on this kind of interface.I think Dec 13 14:51:02 lcuk: what keyboard? Dec 13 14:51:39 since it's not a real serial link anywhere in the chain Dec 13 14:51:48 any lol Dec 13 14:59:35 why can we not enter our location manually to assist gps Dec 13 14:59:55 what is that, a 1/2 hour fix? Dec 13 15:00:16 pupnik: you don't have a-gps? Dec 13 15:00:21 I must be very strange person for knowing where i am. Dec 13 15:00:23 or your network does not support it? Dec 13 15:00:29 I don't want this radio on all the time. Dec 13 15:00:37 Microwave radiation is worse than you think Dec 13 15:00:45 pupnik: are you dicussing or complaining Dec 13 15:00:52 irc is for discussion, you know :) Dec 13 15:00:55 I do have a-gps sometimes Dec 13 15:00:58 tinfoil hats! Dec 13 15:01:12 No, science RST38h -- happen to know some. Dec 13 15:01:19 Particularly cancer research.\ Dec 13 15:01:26 pupnik: what's it going to do with that location? Dec 13 15:01:28 well...umm... Dec 13 15:01:33 use gprs, radio will do less than 1sec transmission for agps data Dec 13 15:01:43 k Dec 13 15:01:47 ShadowJK: That is the most dangerous kind! Dec 13 15:01:50 in other news, looks like geotagging works perfectly: http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/albumMap?uname=miohtama&aid=5414719434067431617#map Dec 13 15:02:10 i see we have some ability to disconnect cell radio using rmmod, but no way to enable again. Dec 13 15:02:13 Most modern foods are probably way higher on the cancer-inducing scale than your cell phone Dec 13 15:02:42 and ecoach also: http://www.mapmytracks.com/explore/track/activity-2009-12-13-141427/ Dec 13 15:03:15 put a fm/am radio next to phone, it'll go raptititap everytime the cell radio is active :) Dec 13 15:03:29 RST38h: http://people.csail.mit.edu/rahimi/helmet/ Dec 13 15:03:45 moo__: not really Dec 13 15:03:48 ShadowJK: that should not happen anymore with 3G, I assume :) Dec 13 15:04:02 ShadowJK: i.e. its a feature of GSM Dec 13 15:04:08 moo__: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6584 Dec 13 15:04:09 Bug 6584: GPS geotagged pictures truncate precision of GPS reading. Dec 13 15:04:20 yes it is Dec 13 15:04:33 but the first step of my suggestion was to switch to gprs/edge Dec 13 15:05:55 SpeedEvil: ah darn Dec 13 15:06:09 SpeedEvil: luckily I don't need such accuracy Dec 13 15:06:15 moo__: It's almost there - and nearly works OK. Dec 13 15:06:33 moo__: but it's really inconvenient if you're tagging multiple close-together features Dec 13 15:07:01 which brings me to another question: could it be possible to create panorama pictures with the sense of direction (where is north) with n900? Dec 13 15:07:05 no Dec 13 15:07:10 There is no compass. Dec 13 15:07:28 ah. I thought there were, but it must have been N97... Dec 13 15:07:29 You can do it by registering the photos against each other. Dec 13 15:07:42 no, the stitching would have to be done based on features inside the images themselves Dec 13 15:07:49 yes, that's what I mean Dec 13 15:07:53 SpeedEvil: really, why on earth does it reduce the accuracy? Dec 13 15:07:55 rubbish Dec 13 15:08:06 hey lardman Dec 13 15:08:06 lardman: I assume someone diddn't think hard about it. Dec 13 15:08:08 pocket cameras can do stiching quite easily Dec 13 15:08:18 yeah moo__ Dec 13 15:08:23 lardman: the default exif tags are specified as m/n Dec 13 15:08:24 its a reasonable algo Dec 13 15:08:44 lardman: so if you don't think - and just use /1 as the divider, you get integers Dec 13 15:08:50 compass+accelerometer+gps would never have enough precision for stitching anyway.. Dec 13 15:08:53 lardman: which leads to the ~30m grid Dec 13 15:09:05 ShadowJK: stiching must be done based on image features in any case Dec 13 15:09:12 ShadowJK, depends on size you are trying to do Dec 13 15:09:14 ShadowJK: but if you have a panorama you would know which direction is which Dec 13 15:09:28 ShadowJK: It would, but you'd need a $50,000 accelerometer. Dec 13 15:09:35 daaamn, I don't want to go outside( Dec 13 15:09:36 s/accelerometer/IMU Dec 13 15:09:42 or many many samples Dec 13 15:09:44 derf: accellerometer isn't so much the issue - if you assume stationary. Dec 13 15:09:50 and fake it with image stitching Dec 13 15:09:50 ;) Dec 13 15:09:52 voted up Dec 13 15:10:12 derf: Current gyros are good enough to do under a degree of error over a sensible pano time interval Dec 13 15:10:29 SpeedEvil: My company builds these systems. Dec 13 15:10:42 I'd have more faith in gyros than compass for stitching :) Dec 13 15:10:42 derf: Ah - I just build them for a hobby :) Dec 13 15:11:01 werent people on about taking photos of actual compass Dec 13 15:11:04 it made me giggle Dec 13 15:11:09 Of course, our goal is sub-pixel registration error. Dec 13 15:11:10 * SpeedEvil is looking at an I2C compass that he wants to strap onto the back of the accel chip. Dec 13 15:11:12 * lardman could do with a gyro for rocket stab Dec 13 15:11:27 o_O lardman Dec 13 15:11:30 * moo__ also voted for GPS precision bug Dec 13 15:11:49 combine it withwhat lbt wants - putting n900s into hamster balls and rolling down a hill Dec 13 15:11:54 to do mapping of ski slopes Dec 13 15:11:59 http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Cat=1967220&k=HMC5843 - should actually just about work - with no issues. Dec 13 15:12:07 but it means opening the case and soldering Dec 13 15:12:11 lcuk: if it's cheap for ski companies.. Dec 13 15:12:12 * lardman heads home Dec 13 15:12:15 cu all later Dec 13 15:12:16 wave Dec 13 15:12:19 moo__, indeed Dec 13 15:12:22 hundreds of balls Dec 13 15:12:22 actually, what's up with Garage? Still down? Dec 13 15:12:40 nm, will try later on Dec 13 15:12:40 can it be anything else but slow it it's running on PHP? :) Dec 13 15:12:42 bye! Dec 13 15:14:03 moo__: you've clearly never been tagged as due North of the North pole :) [or in Paris, Haiti?] Dec 13 15:14:33 s/Haiti/Tahiti/ Dec 13 15:14:34 timeless_mbp meant: moo__: you've clearly never been tagged as due North of the North pole :) [or in Paris, Tahiti?] Dec 13 15:15:02 timeless_mbp: you know, barbarian people come from North Dec 13 15:15:06 timeless_mbp: what's the progress on that btw? Dec 13 15:15:16 location-test is cool, sats in view drops foron 7 to 0 when I move hand to top of screen Dec 13 15:15:33 All of the maemo services seem to die over the weekend. Dec 13 15:15:33 ShadowJK: for me - it gets lots worse when the screen is up too - which is a pity Dec 13 15:15:40 ShadowJK: screen up/keyboard down Dec 13 15:15:43 It's almost as if they have no idea that that is prime hacking time. Dec 13 15:16:24 w00t: dunno Dec 13 15:16:38 i didn't actively file a bug about lat 104 deg N :) Dec 13 15:16:55 the clock stuff missed the boat for the first service release Dec 13 15:17:00 it was decided that it's too risky :) Dec 13 15:17:07 shame Dec 13 15:17:15 people will just have to use my package :) Dec 13 15:17:27 i'll update it again maybe tonight and maybe push it to extras at some point Dec 13 15:17:31 derf, maybe, maybe not - would be nice to see some relative traffic analysis to back that up and then plan outages around. perhaps thats already being done and whilst we are vocal, we might not actually be the highest users Dec 13 15:18:04 this outage though was unannounced which hits people more Dec 13 15:18:17 i believe we normally have at least some warnings Dec 13 15:20:41 lcuk: It's not just garage that's out. Dec 13 15:20:50 * lcuk nods Dec 13 15:21:00 what else? Dec 13 15:21:01 extras-devel is not syncing with the autobuilder output, and hasn't been since early last night. Dec 13 15:21:19 oh that's why i couldn't find claws Dec 13 15:21:31 And most of maemo.org went belly-up last weekend (at least all the non-static pages). Dec 13 15:21:53 SpeedEvil: http://www.speedtest.net/result/651363793.png -- tethering and nokia suite driver modem in default mode (4xx xxx bps) Dec 13 15:22:06 monday morning/noon is surely safest Dec 13 15:22:13 why is that? provider problems? Dec 13 15:22:18 or whenever the sun shines Dec 13 15:22:18 SpeedEvil: http://www.speedtest.net/result/651365171.png -- same but with maximum choice of 9xx xxxbps Dec 13 15:22:19 Yes, well. Some of us have jobs. Dec 13 15:22:44 chokepoint clearly being the modem driver Dec 13 15:24:06 red: is that on device or with device as modem? Dec 13 15:24:08 Is 'user should read the manual' always a valid response to a bug? Dec 13 15:24:13 https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6891 Dec 13 15:24:14 Bug 6891: Device lock setup gives no way to set a lock code for the first time. Dec 13 15:26:30 lol Dec 13 15:26:41 as easy as 123 - 45 Dec 13 15:26:56 SpeedEvil: if you're nokia? Dec 13 15:27:14 we've been told internally, officially, that oddly enough, a large portion of our audience will read the manul Dec 13 15:27:18 s/manul/manual/ Dec 13 15:27:18 timeless_mbp meant: we've been told internally, officially, that oddly enough, a large portion of our audience will read the manual Dec 13 15:27:28 however, .... have any of you *found* the manual? Dec 13 15:27:47 on the internet i did Dec 13 15:27:52 And yes, I agree that users should read the manual - in fact I had. However I was out with my phone, and hadn't envisioned wanting to set a lock code, so skimmed that bit, and couldn't recall the code. Dec 13 15:27:57 n.b.: if someone told you where the manual is, that doesn't count -- "shh!" Dec 13 15:28:20 ot could be worse. they could be like typical linux people and say that 12345 has been used since forever in every product and that surely everybody who's ever used a phone would know it Dec 13 15:28:21 timeless: I dig through all packages, so yes. Dec 13 15:28:47 timeless_mbp: i rather wondered where it was too, actually Dec 13 15:28:55 timeless_mbp: any advice on that would be good Dec 13 15:29:01 (not that I need it) Dec 13 15:29:07 and always set your lock code when you buy it, its not funny to show a mater your nokia n900 for him to set the code to something silly and then forget Dec 13 15:29:21 mate* Dec 13 15:29:21 timeless: i saw the quickstart guide in the box and then after a week accidentally found the manual too Dec 13 15:29:49 the whole manual? Dec 13 15:29:57 shh Dec 13 15:29:59 no sharing Dec 13 15:30:07 let people discover it for themselves :) Dec 13 15:31:22 ShadowJK: the device as a modem Dec 13 15:31:22 the text is a bit small or the layout is kinda stupid Dec 13 15:31:32 I got over twice the result in speedtest on the phone itself Dec 13 15:31:53 but when coupled with a pc, the driver wont let me choose a speed higher than 921600bps Dec 13 15:32:08 even thought the connection is over 3x that speed namely Dec 13 15:32:15 mm.. on the phone itself I got 5mbit/s on my 2mbit/s connection with speedtest.net Dec 13 15:32:20 red: do you really care? Dec 13 15:32:25 I do, I tether alot Dec 13 15:32:33 speaking as someone who has gotten phone bills recently... Dec 13 15:32:45 and I'm paying for higher speed so I'd like to be able to ride on it for better performance Dec 13 15:33:03 currently im at a place for nearly two weeks and using my desk pc with n900 tethering for the duration Dec 13 15:33:36 no im not expecting ADSL2 rates and latency, but would be nice to get mover 921600bps, since seems the only reason im capped there is the modem driver? Dec 13 15:34:00 i thought it was crazy that ppl used a n900 to tether a n8x0 Dec 13 15:34:18 red: http://www.wirelessforums.org/alt-cellular-motorola/moto-usb-modem-port-speed-12-0-mbps-versus-921600-bps-44183.html Dec 13 15:34:41 red: if you encounter a problem with windows (as above), please don't complain to the hardware vendor of your choice. try asking google. Dec 13 15:35:25 it sounds like it's an ms feature mostly Dec 13 15:35:57 well that doesn't really surprise me :) Dec 13 15:36:13 now I know where to start digging, thought I'm running Windows 7 Dec 13 15:36:28 http://brnz.org/hbr/?p=378 PS3 sixaxis bluetooth controller with N900 Dec 13 15:36:59 yahooo Dec 13 15:37:06 red: roughly, i think from reading this that "Maximium COM port speed is 921600 Baud" Dec 13 15:37:21 kynky, lol Dec 13 15:37:43 I carry both around with me wherever I go, and if I had money for a dataplan, I'd probably do that Dec 13 15:37:43 so since the n900 probably appears as a standard BT COM device Dec 13 15:37:48 you're unlikely to beat that Dec 13 15:38:04 simply put: you probably don't want to treat your n900 as a Modem if you want good speed Dec 13 15:38:16 timeless_mbp, dun is rfcomm-based, right? Dec 13 15:38:20 that's what you're saying? Dec 13 15:38:33 i didn't say precisely that :) Dec 13 15:38:41 he said he configured a modem Dec 13 15:38:43 but is it wrong? O_o Dec 13 15:38:45 ah Dec 13 15:38:46 okay Dec 13 15:38:46 installing bluetooth drivers and pc suite is probably not a good idea Dec 13 15:38:47 lol Dec 13 15:38:49 I thought I read that Dec 13 15:39:00 jaem: i'm incredibly cautious in my choice of words Dec 13 15:39:01 I assumed he was using usb cable Dec 13 15:39:14 maybe I'm just crazy from reading BlueZ docs Dec 13 15:39:20 for all i know, it might be possible to configure DUN to not use it as a modem Dec 13 15:39:24 * jaem starts giggling histerically Dec 13 15:39:29 ppl jump on them at first sign of possible betterness ? Dec 13 15:39:31 mwahahaah BlueZ Dec 13 15:39:33 fun fun fun Dec 13 15:39:40 hm Dec 13 15:39:59 sigh Dec 13 15:40:03 usb cable yes, and the phone appears as a "Nokia N900 USB Modem (OTA)" Dec 13 15:40:16 activating the connection by dialing *99# on the modem Dec 13 15:41:02 red, it might be possible to use PAN if your laptop has bluetooth Dec 13 15:41:06 timeless_mbp, any idea? Dec 13 15:41:12 jaem: anyway, the first url i provided was a motorola usb modem :) Dec 13 15:41:18 jaem: dunno Dec 13 15:41:23 i'm very gunshy about pairing atm Dec 13 15:41:24 jaem: I have a bluetooth dongle I can use np Dec 13 15:41:32 my phone bills are scary, and i've gotten hit by 2 warnings in a row Dec 13 15:41:38 which is something you aren't supposed to do Dec 13 15:41:42 But with my level of expertise what I read about bluetooth tethering with N900 so far I thought best to stay away :) Dec 13 15:42:02 how come I have 460800 set as serial port speed for DUN over bluetooth, and get 1mbit speeds still... Dec 13 15:42:04 timeless_mbp, meh... Rogers told me that data overages were only 0.3 cents per MB Dec 13 15:42:13 (linux) Dec 13 15:42:14 turns out they were off by two orders of magnitude Dec 13 15:42:23 jaem: so how many mb would that be to get a bill of roughly 2000 CAD ? :) Dec 13 15:42:23 but hey - Verizon can do it, so why not Rogers XP Dec 13 15:42:24 tmobile in uk have 1GB/month limit, and dont caharge you if you go over, they just throttle, and thats just apparantly Dec 13 15:42:27 you dont have a fixed cost for 3G? Dec 13 15:42:31 data package i mean Dec 13 15:42:38 red: it turns out that we don't Dec 13 15:42:45 most people don't get free international roaming Dec 13 15:42:56 * timeless_mbp isn't sure such a package exists anywhere Dec 13 15:43:07 which kills cos thats the time you need most non wifi data ;) Dec 13 15:43:09 I don't think one does Dec 13 15:43:12 timeless_mbp, well, at the rate they *quoted* me, approximately 667GB Dec 13 15:43:26 hrm, that's a lot of CDs Dec 13 15:43:26 however, at the actual rate, rather a lot less Dec 13 15:43:30 (1000?) Dec 13 15:43:35 0.3 cents != 0.3 dollars Dec 13 15:43:39 phail Dec 13 15:43:46 if it does, it's so small that one .js file on a webpage eats your entire bandwidth quota Dec 13 15:43:55 ha Dec 13 15:44:04 ShadowJK, have you heard of IrregularWebcomic? Dec 13 15:44:10 nope Dec 13 15:44:43 one of their strips was in the sci-fi story arc, and one of the characters asked why their "modern, space-age computer" was taking forever to load a webpage Dec 13 15:44:58 :D Dec 13 15:44:59 the other guy responded that it was 1000 years of JS compatibility hacks Dec 13 15:45:06 takes a while to download :P Dec 13 15:45:30 adblock is helpful, speeds u and reduces data useage Dec 13 15:45:41 oh yes Dec 13 15:46:27 I was just remembering the doubleclick (or some other ad provider) that made firefox on 2.83GHz quadcore cpu hang for a minute. I looked at the offending .js, and it was 5 megabytes of something like decode("fivemegabytestringhere.... Dec 13 15:46:27 although you prob wont want to, but you could use mobile versions of popular websites (i dont mean wap) Dec 13 15:46:39 switching to the html gmail page is also good Dec 13 15:46:41 ShadowJK, blech Dec 13 15:46:50 kynky, yeah, most of them are kind of lame Dec 13 15:46:50 err basic html Dec 13 15:47:02 so much for "all of the Internet" being available on the iPhone :P Dec 13 15:47:13 I often browse without js because of this :) Dec 13 15:47:20 I liked it when the UK ad standards board called them on that commercial Dec 13 15:47:29 and when roaming also without images Dec 13 15:47:32 jaem, all of it is, but sometimes the internet is even overpowering for my big pc Dec 13 15:47:55 it depends on what all of the inernet means Dec 13 15:48:00 lcuk, heh... well, okay, it wasn't a blatant lie, like some of their other marketing Dec 13 15:48:06 there's no computer capable of it Dec 13 15:48:12 I don't mind most of their products, but they really have no shame Dec 13 15:48:13 ShadowJK, all the stuff apple thinks important Dec 13 15:48:19 lol Dec 13 15:48:31 ShadowJK, come on? You mean you don't download the Internet every week? Dec 13 15:48:31 noob Dec 13 15:48:40 is tehre a place i can just get the internet on a cd or usb stick Dec 13 15:48:43 I like to keep a backup with me at all times Dec 13 15:48:47 lcuk, I'll mail you one Dec 13 15:48:51 tmo in pocket format Dec 13 15:48:51 the internet archive :) , they beat you to it Dec 13 15:49:05 jaem: i got tired of the websites in vrml activex controls Dec 13 15:49:06 you can already d/l ikipedia for offline viewing Dec 13 15:49:10 I often wish I could just use scp to download my build server onto my N900 XD Dec 13 15:49:14 too bad it doesn't work that way Dec 13 15:49:16 hehe Dec 13 15:49:21 i have a regular list of sites Dec 13 15:49:28 kynky, I know, I have 3/4 of it on my N900 right now Dec 13 15:49:31 it would be good to determine my regular viewing habits Dec 13 15:49:31 it's snappy :) Dec 13 15:49:35 jaem, rsync :) Dec 13 15:49:37 and dl them just before i set off for a commute Dec 13 15:49:58 kynky, no, I meant download the *server*, for offline use, hence it being a joke Dec 13 15:50:13 the whole server? Dec 13 15:50:14 I don't have a dataplan, so I can use ssh on the bus/skytrain Dec 13 15:50:17 lol Dec 13 15:50:21 lcuk, yes... ALL of it Dec 13 15:50:26 all four cores Dec 13 15:50:33 -snerk- Dec 13 15:51:06 well, I suppose I'd have to leave some in my friend's dorm... it is running routing software for his LAN as well Dec 13 15:51:18 but download the rest! bwahahaah Dec 13 15:52:01 so we can blame you when its running slow Dec 13 15:52:05 for blocking the tubes Dec 13 15:52:19 man, all these speedtest websites suck. mobilespeedtest.com results gives me 33% of real speed with smallest test size, and 170% of real speed with 1meg test siz Dec 13 15:52:37 lcuk, no, no, i download the Internet to my N900 only once a week, just in case someone kicks out the plug Dec 13 15:52:52 oh, thats ok Dec 13 15:52:52 or, you know, ejects the Internet by accident or something Dec 13 15:53:02 which day do you use, so i can choose an alternative Dec 13 15:53:22 I play fairly.. I mean, downloading the whole Internet over my neighbour's wifi *more* than once a week would be bordering on rude Dec 13 15:53:34 dont be selfish, give some back, torrent the internet Dec 13 15:53:46 lcuk, my day is Tuesdays, or alternatively, whichever day you pick Dec 13 15:53:49 www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAUyaELfwBo Dec 13 15:54:11 kynky, get your own Internets! Dec 13 15:54:52 http://www.videosift.com/video/This-Is-the-Internet-The-IT-Crowd for those that are blocked by youtube Dec 13 15:55:05 lcuk, LOL Dec 13 15:55:20 well Dec 13 15:55:28 that looks like a cheap project box with a panel mount indicator light Dec 13 15:55:28 heh Dec 13 15:55:30 looks like merlin set the dragon free Dec 13 15:55:34 :) Dec 13 15:55:49 and in the previews the dragon is fucking camelot up hahaha Dec 13 15:55:56 reminds me of lodoss Dec 13 15:57:13 blocked by youtube? Dec 13 15:59:44 poor camelot Dec 13 16:00:24 every movie or soap producer feels like making up his own camelot story at least once Dec 13 16:01:31 RST38h, theres nohing wrong with that Dec 13 16:01:36 lcuk, I swear we have the exact same chairs at my uni somewhere as were in that clip :P Dec 13 16:01:41 its like saying there cant be more than one mediaplayer Dec 13 16:01:46 anyhow, apparently it's 8am Dec 13 16:01:51 I should go to bed Dec 13 16:01:54 g'night Dec 13 16:01:58 yes, you should Dec 13 16:02:00 gnite Dec 13 16:03:04 * lardman nearly just ordered 3kg of peppers Dec 13 16:03:12 I like them, not that much though Dec 13 16:03:43 heh Dec 13 16:03:58 btw lardman cloaks were given out to community members recently, did you not want one? Dec 13 16:04:17 I've got one haven't I? Dec 13 16:04:28 there wasnt one when you arrived before Dec 13 16:04:30 lardman, apparently not Dec 13 16:04:35 i was gonna ask when you came in Dec 13 16:04:40 strange, says I have in the channel window Dec 13 16:04:40 hiya LinuxCode \o Dec 13 16:04:46 what are the requirements for getting one? Dec 13 16:04:46 cloaks are for losers.... Dec 13 16:04:54 wait, where did that cloak come from Dec 13 16:05:01 :p Dec 13 16:05:03 fedora man Dec 13 16:05:03 ignore what I said earlier Dec 13 16:05:07 LinuxCode, naw, I want a cloak... but a real one :P Dec 13 16:05:17 lcuk, hi Dec 13 16:05:20 * lcuk has a jedicloak Dec 13 16:05:30 * LinuxCode has a cloak room Dec 13 16:06:10 RST38h: haha Dec 13 16:06:11 smoking jacket , pipe and slippers Dec 13 16:06:19 merlin is actually pretty good Dec 13 16:06:37 and the english love it in the uk so it wont get cancelled soon Dec 13 16:06:58 like firefly Dec 13 16:06:59 haha Dec 13 16:07:05 Macer: do you imply the welsh don't like it? Dec 13 16:07:13 no Dec 13 16:07:18 the US doesnt Dec 13 16:07:18 i only seen the first episode of merlin Dec 13 16:07:26 firefly was awesome Dec 13 16:07:30 i forgot who ran it here but they arent going to anymore Dec 13 16:07:36 does nothing for me, Merlin, and I'm English too Dec 13 16:07:42 ik from uk Dec 13 16:07:44 ShadowJK: kernel.org - the only speedtest site! Dec 13 16:07:49 im Dec 13 16:07:55 lardman: it is good. makes me laugh Dec 13 16:08:04 and i usually dont like british humor Dec 13 16:08:16 its britsh humour ? Dec 13 16:08:30 * lcuk finds his lack of remote control app in linux disturbing Dec 13 16:08:32 lardman, I am with you Dec 13 16:08:33 indeed the best in the world Dec 13 16:08:33 peep show is british humour Dec 13 16:08:45 ky/ it sure was Dec 13 16:08:45 firefly that is Dec 13 16:09:11 they should find the person that cancelled firefly and have them shot Dec 13 16:09:29 fed to the reivers (spelling?) Dec 13 16:09:32 or shoot off their balls and let them live. that would be even better Dec 13 16:09:42 i notice some of you doing speedtests. i've just built iperf if you want a deb Dec 13 16:09:50 sarah conner chronicles ending really sucked Dec 13 16:09:53 rivers? Dec 13 16:09:55 ;) Dec 13 16:10:06 river tam Dec 13 16:10:21 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reaver_(Firefly) Dec 13 16:10:26 mmmmmmmm rivertam Dec 13 16:10:29 how could you not love a place where all civilizations speak chinese and english? Dec 13 16:10:30 she kicks ass Dec 13 16:10:41 :) Dec 13 16:11:00 thought continuation in terminator pretty apt Dec 13 16:11:16 an episode of her just picking things up from the floor ? Dec 13 16:11:24 who would win in a fight between rivertam and buffy Dec 13 16:11:30 summer glau is hot in tha molester who wants to have sex with a girl of age kind of way Dec 13 16:12:34 she looks a lot younger than she is Dec 13 16:12:44 anyways. have a few things to do blah Dec 13 16:12:49 bbl Dec 13 16:13:53 who's thise? Dec 13 16:13:54 this Dec 13 16:14:52 summer glau,played rivertam and a termainator Dec 13 16:16:01 ah, the girl in that terrible terminator series? Dec 13 16:16:04 strange name Dec 13 16:16:34 strange girl lol Dec 13 16:16:40 * timeless_mbp shrugs Dec 13 16:16:50 * timeless_mbp likes the sarah connor chronicles Dec 13 16:17:07 I only watched a random one Dec 13 16:18:31 http://xkcd.com/406/ Dec 13 16:18:36 Macer: you mean hong kong? Dec 13 16:18:55 timeless_mbp, they ended it rly badly accordign to online stuff, ive not watched last few yet Dec 13 16:21:40 lcuk: :) Dec 13 16:21:49 * timeless_mbp ponders Dec 13 16:21:56 * timeless_mbp isn't sure impersonation is enabled Dec 13 16:22:13 * timeless_mbp could have signed the last RESO INVA w/ -- summer glau Dec 13 16:22:29 * timeless_mbp sighs Dec 13 16:22:32 reporters suck Dec 13 16:22:42 is it really that hard to write a decent summary and steps to reproduce? Dec 13 16:23:06 Yes. Dec 13 16:23:31 * lcuk karatechops javispedro Dec 13 16:24:01 * javispedro composites lcuk into a non fullscreened X11 window Dec 13 16:24:29 * lcuk breaks the boundary and calls up summer glau Dec 13 16:24:34 javispedro: forgot to ask, if my image for snes is fine :) Dec 13 16:25:00 javispedro: I hope nintendo haven't patetns for vertical tubes :D Dec 13 16:25:37 wazd: I hope that too :) (*looks at SuperTux*) Dec 13 16:26:59 cpu load is full but top is not reporting any load Dec 13 16:27:24 something in phone Dec 13 16:31:06 lardman: ping Dec 13 16:31:29 hey timeless_mbp Dec 13 16:31:53 change channel Dec 13 16:32:55 anyone know how to get the n810 to recognize swap partitions? Dec 13 16:34:49 timeless_mbp: to which one? Dec 13 16:35:04 I don't see my old pm window I'm afraid Dec 13 16:35:14 have moved pc Dec 13 16:35:20 maemoswap: create a file named .swap and mkswap it on a mmc/internal mmc Dec 13 16:35:35 l10n Dec 13 16:35:47 * lardman thinks that with a name like that maemoswap should know how to enable swap ;) Dec 13 16:36:03 i thought swapon -a would have worked Dec 13 16:36:20 so it won't recognize swap partions, only files? Dec 13 16:36:34 I'm using a swap partition on 810 just fine Dec 13 16:36:51 javispedro: how did you get it to detect the partition? Dec 13 16:36:52 but dunno if busybox's swapon -a works Dec 13 16:37:07 I just enable it specifically (swapon /device Dec 13 16:37:07 ) Dec 13 16:38:37 wazd: you getting forward with the ui stuff? Dec 13 16:38:59 aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh at tmo Dec 13 16:41:23 it would be great if apps could expose their capabilities nd then have completely reskinnable ui on top Dec 13 16:41:36 still waiting LCARS for n900.. Dec 13 16:41:37 so people couldtheme them completely - like winamp used to allow Dec 13 16:41:37 *g* Dec 13 16:41:56 in fact winamp used a pretty generic theming/relayouting engine iirc. Dec 13 16:42:04 yeah it did Dec 13 16:42:21 it was impressive to see the totally different experiences the different designers could come up with Dec 13 16:43:12 i always stuck with the default one (still do, use winamp 2.81 here) Dec 13 16:43:27 hi Dec 13 16:43:45 so whats new in the Maemo 5 world for today? :D Dec 13 16:44:30 lol @ tumbleweeds Dec 13 16:44:59 lol Dec 13 16:45:00 there has been some publication of new concepting and ui/ux ideas from the barcelona meetup last weekend Dec 13 16:45:44 fm radio has shown some results and surprisingimprovements due to the excellent teamwork going on Dec 13 16:45:57 and xournal too with some wicked concepts Dec 13 16:46:40 and theres the evolution of a brand new gaming concept (sheepdog!)that kathy is working on in the tmo forums Dec 13 16:46:50 any new and sexy apps or games for the n900 lately? Dec 13 16:47:02 Zeddy, sheepdog is just starting Dec 13 16:47:04 not really Dec 13 16:47:16 atm though N900 has a few good apps Dec 13 16:47:21 completely new andtotally maemo specific app that YOU can get involved in developing Dec 13 16:47:21 but nothing iphony :P Dec 13 16:47:24 oh Dec 13 16:47:27 sounds cool :P Dec 13 16:47:36 how do i get involved? :P Dec 13 16:47:42 sheepdog? :D Dec 13 16:47:49 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=415068#post415068 Dec 13 16:47:53 wonder what the name means Dec 13 16:47:56 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=36198 Dec 13 16:48:14 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=36198 Dec 13 16:48:24 damn Dec 13 16:48:43 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=36698 Dec 13 16:48:46 better Dec 13 16:48:51 herm Dec 13 16:49:00 cool Dec 13 16:49:03 will there be kismet for n900? Dec 13 16:49:07 is there a way to set my N900 via internet time? Dec 13 16:49:10 like ntp Dec 13 16:49:19 siriusnova: yes install nttpd Dec 13 16:50:12 quoted from maemo.org: With out-of-the-box software, the N900 can automatically set its clock via information from the cell provider, like most (all?) phones. Network time protocol daemon (ntpd) is separate download from Extras/Extras-testing (I haven't checked which), but should be an easy one. It was always install-and-go on previous Maemo devices, and I don't expect that's changed with Maemo 5. Dec 13 16:50:39 if they updated ntpd to work with upstart, yes Dec 13 16:50:54 i see openntpd Dec 13 16:51:49 opennttpd doesnt adjust for drift like ntpd does Dec 13 16:52:04 why not trustin cell provider for current time then? Dec 13 16:52:09 * cehteh wonders if ntp is power intensive because it needs to wakeup the cpu quite frequently Dec 13 16:52:43 i'd rather setup a hourly cronjob to query a ntp server if reachable (man ntpdate) Dec 13 16:52:54 have ntpd update as infrequent as you like Dec 13 16:53:11 ahaha! Dec 13 16:53:27 non composited mode seems to work well Dec 13 16:53:54 how that? Dec 13 16:53:55 u already said this javis Dec 13 16:54:06 is it me or is the battery life on the N900 kind of crappy Dec 13 16:54:14 this time it is WITHOUT killing h-desktop Dec 13 16:54:28 i had my N900 at 100% charged at 10am, by 3pm it was at 20% Dec 13 16:54:29 siriusnova: kinda depends on what you're doing. Dec 13 16:54:32 very nice Dec 13 16:54:38 so you press the launcher button and it goes back to composited mode :) Dec 13 16:54:46 and thats just with my 3G up checking my email Dec 13 16:54:50 automatically Dec 13 16:54:52 siriusnova: 20% sounds like a really precise measurement Dec 13 16:54:55 thats kind of bad Dec 13 16:55:02 I found yet another SDL bug.. Dec 13 16:55:04 timeless_mbp - well it was 20% of the meter Dec 13 16:55:05 what brightness? and was it always on? Dec 13 16:55:09 no Dec 13 16:55:11 u think this is safe javis? Dec 13 16:55:16 it was sitting on my desk Dec 13 16:55:27 ManuelSE: yep Dec 13 16:55:32 this thing sure likes to reboot Dec 13 16:55:40 hm.. I'm going to call myself to see what happens Dec 13 16:55:45 pop? imap? MfE? ovi? Dec 13 16:55:56 can u upload the bin somewhere? Dec 13 16:55:56 ovi Dec 13 16:56:02 nokia messaging exactly Dec 13 16:56:07 i have 2 email accounts Dec 13 16:56:09 yeah, i couldn't remember how to spell it :) Dec 13 16:56:16 so i was using nokia messaging to push email Dec 13 16:56:17 but thanks for spelling it out Dec 13 16:56:43 is it a strong 3g signal? Dec 13 16:56:49 yes Dec 13 16:56:55 * timeless_mbp tries to remember if one can disable 3g Dec 13 16:56:59 my office is opposite the tower Dec 13 16:57:00 :p Dec 13 16:57:22 and you don't have wifi configured and it isn't set to search for wifi? Dec 13 16:57:28 nope Dec 13 16:57:29 and you aren't using the rss reader? Dec 13 16:57:30 just 3G Dec 13 16:57:32 wifi disabled Dec 13 16:57:37 nope Dec 13 16:57:42 and you don't have any widgets on your desktop? Dec 13 16:57:53 well Dec 13 16:57:56 bluetooth? Dec 13 16:57:57 just a facebook one Dec 13 16:58:02 um.. Dec 13 16:58:05 ... Dec 13 16:58:20 oh sure... i bet that *never* accesses the intarweb ;-) Dec 13 16:58:50 still Dec 13 16:59:00 for a phone that screams always on internet access Dec 13 16:59:04 thats kind of bad Dec 13 16:59:04 well, now you have something to try differently Dec 13 16:59:09 um... Dec 13 16:59:20 third party software can be well... crappy Dec 13 16:59:28 you got 6-7 hours with it Dec 13 16:59:34 which isn't actually that bad Dec 13 16:59:41 sirius battery life is much more variable with powerful machine like n900 than with weak machines Dec 13 16:59:46 my laptop certainly doesn't last that long Dec 13 16:59:53 anyway, try w/o facebook tomorrow Dec 13 16:59:57 see if that changes things Dec 13 17:00:10 on tuesday, try w/ only one nokia messaging account Dec 13 17:00:20 you don't have anything in your calendar, right? Dec 13 17:00:57 nope Dec 13 17:01:19 ok, so you're relatively close to a plain device, pretty good. less testing for you :) Dec 13 17:01:57 fwiw, my general view is that a device like this has one job: Dec 13 17:02:00 do what you ask it to do Dec 13 17:02:17 if you ask it to run its battery down in an hour, and it makes you happy in that hour, it did its job Dec 13 17:03:00 it'd be better certainly if it could warn you that you've asked it to drain its battery, and i've been asking people internally to help there Dec 13 17:03:08 ManuelSE: I can upload a cmd line bin if you're interested Dec 13 17:03:10 why are ppl complaining about battery life? Dec 13 17:03:18 my n900 runs for 2 days now Dec 13 17:03:23 naxxatoe: people will complain about *everything* Dec 13 17:03:25 and is like 30% battery remaining Dec 13 17:03:29 that's how you can tell they're alive Dec 13 17:03:33 yes such a thing ! it would be so nice to compare speed Dec 13 17:03:34 naxxatoe: yes its all about how you use it Dec 13 17:03:42 i enable 3g/wifi only when needed Dec 13 17:03:48 same here Dec 13 17:03:50 also Dec 13 17:03:55 i dont use too many apps Dec 13 17:04:08 calendar/phone of corse plus a few apps from time to time Dec 13 17:04:12 yeh and well no need to poll for emails or facebook 24/7 Dec 13 17:04:16 did you show this to rst javispedro? Dec 13 17:04:21 ssh/email/msn/mediaplayer Dec 13 17:04:26 wifi auto scan/connect is off, no polling apps (except for cal) Dec 13 17:04:27 hi, I might be being thick, but what do I do when my root partition gets full? Dec 13 17:04:37 and omvweather Dec 13 17:04:41 I am connected to jabber and skype all day and 3g/wifi is always on - that gives me 8-10 hours of battery life Dec 13 17:04:42 bobbyd: panic? Dec 13 17:04:47 clean it up? Dec 13 17:04:48 witter on demand + ssh when i need it Dec 13 17:04:49 ManuelSE: RST38h bangs omapfb for full screen access, so theoretically he is not slowed down by hildon-desktop. Dec 13 17:05:11 hm Dec 13 17:05:27 also, i listen to music 3 hours a day (using the defaultmedia player) Dec 13 17:05:27 i need to find a good show to watch that i havent seen before Dec 13 17:05:36 javispedro -your solution work for sdl or gtkpix or ..? Dec 13 17:05:37 and those 8-10 hours aren't much worse than what I got on my iphone 3g with a similar usage pattern Dec 13 17:05:42 Macer: seen all the house episodes? Dec 13 17:05:54 killefiz: totally true Dec 13 17:05:55 killefiz: yup thats truu Dec 13 17:05:58 ManuelSE: SDL Dec 13 17:06:01 can I use the space that's mounted on MyDocs for the root filesystem? Dec 13 17:06:03 naxxatoe: yes Dec 13 17:06:24 i am going to have to resort to greys anatomy soon Dec 13 17:06:25 Macer: do you like comics? or manga Dec 13 17:06:30 sure Dec 13 17:06:33 thank you for your research javispedro Dec 13 17:06:39 i watch anime all the time ;) Dec 13 17:06:41 try to get your hands on battle programmer shirase Dec 13 17:06:53 is t anime? Dec 13 17:07:14 yes Dec 13 17:07:22 or ebichu (the housekeeping hamster9 Dec 13 17:07:24 Macer: serial experiments lain? :P Dec 13 17:07:33 i recommend the .jp ones with english fansubs Dec 13 17:07:38 Stskeeps: already saw it Dec 13 17:07:43 i liked it Dec 13 17:08:06 i watch a lot of videos on my phone heh Dec 13 17:08:09 altho the second one is more of quick humor whilst bps is more of a series and has better humor in my eyes Dec 13 17:08:17 when im stuck somewhere doing nothing Dec 13 17:09:52 btw: any good programmers around that know how to build apps with user interfaces for maemo5? i have a few project ideas (as a it security guy my ui skills dont exist and the only thing realated to that i am good at is desighning them on paper xD) Dec 13 17:11:18 naxxatoe: qt designer? Dec 13 17:11:26 it's simple as taking a candy from a child Dec 13 17:11:38 naxxatoe: IT security... I could imagine it - breaking legs in exchange for apps. Dec 13 17:11:57 * SpeedEvil makes a list. Dec 13 17:12:15 you dont need qt designers Dec 13 17:12:22 ui/ux is toolkit agnostic Dec 13 17:12:47 SpeedEvil: nah, all i do is root servers all the time and own client networks (we call that a penetration test) xD Dec 13 17:13:09 * frals bashes his head against MfE Dec 13 17:13:24 frals: give it a whipping for me, please Dec 13 17:13:39 w00t, did you start following me on twitter Dec 13 17:13:41 * frals gives MfE a whipping from w00t as well Dec 13 17:13:43 or is it some other random w00t Dec 13 17:13:49 lcuk: *gives a shifty stalker look* Dec 13 17:13:58 frals: do you have MfE configured? Dec 13 17:14:00 (yes, it's me) Dec 13 17:14:07 i need someone to look into something for me :) Dec 13 17:14:16 i best start following you too then Dec 13 17:14:19 So, has anyone who's not a dev gotten their n900 yet? Dec 13 17:14:22 GiantTalkingCow: yes Dec 13 17:14:28 GiantTalkingCow: for high values of not Dec 13 17:14:28 timeless_mbp: I have it configured, with gmail, calendar sync only Dec 13 17:14:31 timeless_mbp: sorry, i tried and failed, it wont sync with my exch2007 for some reason Dec 13 17:14:43 w00t: what lang are you using? Dec 13 17:14:47 GiantTalkingCow: or low, depending on stuff. Dec 13 17:14:47 GiantTalkingCow: what country? preorders have shipped out in a lot of places as far as I know Dec 13 17:14:51 timeless_mbp: norwegian Dec 13 17:14:54 timeless_mbp: I can change Dec 13 17:15:00 w00t: en-us, please Dec 13 17:15:01 oh and frals too :D Dec 13 17:15:02 GiantTalkingCow: UK specifically - got it 30th last mo Dec 13 17:15:06 timeless_mbp: via your package? Dec 13 17:15:07 got mine last week (Finland) Dec 13 17:15:19 * frals does the good ol' :rolleyes: Dec 13 17:15:24 no, standard is fine Dec 13 17:15:28 ok Dec 13 17:15:35 one moment while I try figure out where I put my baby Dec 13 17:15:39 :D heh frals Dec 13 17:15:50 Alrighty, thank you. I've not been keeping up with the news at all, and had heard of some sort of delay or other (internationally, not just in one country), so I figured I'd ask. Dec 13 17:15:51 * lcuk has started following you oo Dec 13 17:15:53 too Dec 13 17:16:01 frals: 2007 should work just ok, 2003 is buggy Dec 13 17:16:10 Macer: still around? Dec 13 17:16:20 frals: sure ex2007 dont have some sort of device id firewall list included? Dec 13 17:16:31 dunno the right them (not exchange admin) Dec 13 17:16:33 timeless_mbp: restarting now Dec 13 17:16:34 term* Dec 13 17:16:50 w00t: thanks, ping me when it's alive Dec 13 17:16:58 nah it should allow any device (set it to allow non-provisional as well) so it *should* work Dec 13 17:17:03 yeah? Dec 13 17:17:22 frals: okay. there shouldnt be no probs then with the 2007 Dec 13 17:17:31 Macer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RyWYYqyM85E Dec 13 17:17:41 Macer: i figured i Dec 13 17:17:46 its failing with... AS-LIB: Retrieving sync keys failed with status 4. Abort retrieving estimations... no clue wtf it means thou, posted in the talkthread and hope mr vitaly sees it ;) Dec 13 17:17:50 timeless_mbp: shoot :) Dec 13 17:17:52 i should link you battle programmer shirase one episode Dec 13 17:17:56 so you can get a feel for it Dec 13 17:18:00 if you like it or not Dec 13 17:18:05 battle programer? :O Dec 13 17:18:13 that an anime? Dec 13 17:18:17 yup Dec 13 17:18:26 heh Dec 13 17:18:56 w00t: open clock Dec 13 17:18:57 is it about some young japanese student that programs huge mecha into saving the teacher who secretly loves him and wants to have sex with him? Dec 13 17:19:08 is it using a 24 hour clock or a 12 hour clock? Dec 13 17:19:11 :) Dec 13 17:19:13 Macer: no Dec 13 17:19:22 in asm Dec 13 17:19:22 haha Dec 13 17:19:24 * red reminds facebook addicts about lite.facebook.com for N900 purposes :) Dec 13 17:19:28 timeless_mbp: 12, I don't mind changing Dec 13 17:19:35 12 is what i want, good Dec 13 17:19:40 k Dec 13 17:19:41 ok, tap the clock in the system area Dec 13 17:19:44 ctrl-shift-p Dec 13 17:19:52 ok. let me take a look see Dec 13 17:19:52 bbl Dec 13 17:19:58 Macer: watch the first episode and then tell me if you like it or not Dec 13 17:20:02 what does it say under "Mail for Exchange" Dec 13 17:20:03 hoepefully i can.. i think my phone is getting hit by cosmic rays Dec 13 17:20:15 "Last synced at 17:18" Dec 13 17:20:30 ah yeah, to remove cosmic rays you better attach a magnet to it *bofh* Dec 13 17:20:34 w00t: please disable automatic sync Dec 13 17:20:38 k Dec 13 17:20:43 (in settings or something) Dec 13 17:20:43 is nuevasync worth the buy? Dec 13 17:20:51 and then change today's date to tomorrow (and disable automatic date) Dec 13 17:21:01 or can I sync google calendare with some other app? MfE doesn't quite cut it Dec 13 17:21:05 what does automatic date do? Dec 13 17:21:07 then get another screen shot and read the date Dec 13 17:21:09 is it Dec 13 17:21:16 SpeedEvil: pulls it from cell or maybe ntp Dec 13 17:21:17 GPS or some other source, or network Dec 13 17:21:18 er.. when I actually tap on the mfe button, i think the strings are a bit messed Dec 13 17:21:20 at least in theory Dec 13 17:21:25 w00t: no kidding Dec 13 17:21:30 that's where we're going with this Dec 13 17:21:31 cell time can be very inaccurate Dec 13 17:21:31 uh Dec 13 17:21:32 "Last sync: Today, 17:18\n : Synced" Dec 13 17:21:38 but i need 2 shots, one for status Dec 13 17:21:41 how do i use "top" to sort by memory usage? Dec 13 17:21:47 w00t: oh, those are my strings Dec 13 17:21:51 hm Dec 13 17:21:55 the : disappears in a newer version Dec 13 17:21:56 they shouldn't be.. Dec 13 17:22:02 you can use control panel to switch back to Default Dec 13 17:22:09 let me go look then Dec 13 17:22:50 but yeah, we don't want my strings when filing this Dec 13 17:22:52 * w00t restarts again Dec 13 17:22:56 too confusing for tiny people's minds Dec 13 17:24:24 ok, that looks better Dec 13 17:24:30 Status: Complete Dec 13 17:24:33 let me go disable sync Dec 13 17:26:06 timeless_mbp: I now see "Last sync failed" in status area, is that what I'm wanting to see? :P Dec 13 17:26:22 w00t: there's a reason i don't bother w/ some of that Dec 13 17:26:24 but, ignore that Dec 13 17:26:31 disable time update Dec 13 17:26:35 already done Dec 13 17:26:39 and set date to tomorrow Dec 13 17:26:39 yeah Dec 13 17:26:40 couldnt watch that Dec 13 17:26:40 it Dec 13 17:26:40 if that's in clock settings Dec 13 17:26:46 *nod*, done too Dec 13 17:26:55 plays good on the G1 but the res makes the subs hard to read Dec 13 17:27:31 go back to status area Dec 13 17:27:52 mhm Dec 13 17:29:16 what time does it show? Dec 13 17:30:14 in the status area, it still strangely just has "Last sync failed", which doesn't make a lot of sense to me.. I wonder if it tried to sync before I got there to disable it Dec 13 17:30:23 let me try bump the clock forward again Dec 13 17:30:24 :( Dec 13 17:30:34 you're going to need to get it synced once Dec 13 17:31:03 ah, ok, I'll run one then Dec 13 17:31:13 you'll need to fix the clock first Dec 13 17:32:28 o..k.. now it's back to "Last sync at 17:29" Dec 13 17:33:03 * SpeedEvil wonders where this 'automatically set' time that's off by 30s is coming from. Dec 13 17:33:42 heh Dec 13 17:33:49 timeless_mbp: have I confused it? :P Dec 13 17:34:11 my N900 is nearly the 48h mark and I've even played quite a bit of bounce with it yesterday Dec 13 17:34:13 w00t: ok, disable sync? Dec 13 17:34:18 move the clock forward? Dec 13 17:34:25 (battery, I mean ) Dec 13 17:34:27 that was with: set date correctly to today, sync manual, set date to tomorrow, click status area Dec 13 17:34:51 what time does it show in MfE? Dec 13 17:35:06 12/13/2009 17:29 Dec 13 17:35:39 clock otoh says it's the 14th Dec 13 17:35:42 * timeless_mbp ponders Dec 13 17:35:48 so it was changed ok Dec 13 17:35:55 well, yeah, that's mostly ok Dec 13 17:36:05 but the clock says it's 5:30pm? Dec 13 17:36:08 (roughly) Dec 13 17:36:17 yeah Dec 13 17:36:22 * timeless_mbp ponders Dec 13 17:36:23 5:32 atm Dec 13 17:36:25 :33 Dec 13 17:36:39 ok, picture of this view because it shouldn't show 17 for a 12 hr clock Dec 13 17:36:45 then tap MfE Dec 13 17:36:50 what does it show in that dialog? Dec 13 17:36:54 ... well spotted Dec 13 17:37:01 (I didn't even think about that) Dec 13 17:37:41 shot+shot + find/file a bug Dec 13 17:37:56 there's something odd here Dec 13 17:38:07 MfE says: Dec 13 17:38:16 I'm back Dec 13 17:38:16 mine showed 13.12.09 (roughly) in one view Dec 13 17:38:49 hi all Dec 13 17:38:55 "Last synchronization: 12/13/2009, 17:29\nStatus: Complete\n\n\n[Synchronize manually]" Dec 13 17:39:11 "[Details]\n[Settings]" on the lower right hand side Dec 13 17:39:17 * timeless_mbp nods Dec 13 17:39:25 who knows what's the default password for "sudo su"command on N900? Dec 13 17:39:26 screenshotting Dec 13 17:39:47 so, i need to figure out why my datestamp didn't match yours Dec 13 17:40:25 odd.. Dec 13 17:40:28 embedded: There isn't one. Dec 13 17:40:46 i can't imagine accidentally sticking in a backwards dotted format Dec 13 17:41:00 embedded: The default root password is/was 'rootme', but you have no way of getting to it. Install the `rootsh' package from Extras and you can type 'sudo gainroot' or, more simply, just 'root'. Dec 13 17:41:04 ~rootsh Dec 13 17:41:05 from memory, rootsh is an easy way to get root and it's found here: http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/rootsh/ Dec 13 17:41:09 timeless_mbp: looks like how some european people write dates Dec 13 17:41:15 w00t: it is Dec 13 17:41:23 but why would my enus enus device be using it Dec 13 17:41:34 infobot, rootsh is also http://maemo.org/downloads/product/Maemo5/rootsh/ Dec 13 17:41:34 Jaffa: okay Dec 13 17:42:00 timeless_mbp: perhaps differing fw? I'm using straight out retail Dec 13 17:42:05 i'm not Dec 13 17:42:10 which is why you're the one filing Dec 13 17:42:18 yeah, but I mean Dec 13 17:42:22 perhaps that's why your date is incorrect Dec 13 17:43:05 jaffa : yes I know that application, so according what you said there is no other way to get root Dec 13 17:43:28 i want some good gps applications for my n900 Dec 13 17:43:33 ovi-maps aint even usable.. Dec 13 17:43:41 embedded: There are many ways to get root. That's the easiest. Dec 13 17:44:24 embedded: You could install OpenSSH Server and SSH into your device as root (it prompts for a new root password during installation); you could enable R&D mode; you could enable a different root-enabling package; you could try and use a privlege escalation exploit against the kernel; ... ;-) Dec 13 17:44:46 Ceron^: define usable Dec 13 17:45:16 do i really hafto? Dec 13 17:45:21 is maemo mapper still not usable on n900? Dec 13 17:45:33 Ceron^: osm2go? Dec 13 17:45:36 is it really that hard to see how bad ovi-maps is Dec 13 17:45:54 il try it out Dec 13 17:46:11 it's an OSm editor Dec 13 17:46:17 what is wrong with ovi-maps? Dec 13 17:46:25 I don't see any fundamental flaws. Dec 13 17:46:38 There are issues about GPS lock when it does not have a network Dec 13 17:46:39 ovi-maps seems really slow Dec 13 17:46:42 and usability issues Dec 13 17:46:45 they've been pointed out extensively on talk Dec 13 17:46:53 it's very sluggish for a start Dec 13 17:46:53 other than that.. well, I haven't given it much use. Dec 13 17:46:59 this its its not possible to navigate with it Dec 13 17:47:09 even if i put it on follow me :D it doesnt work Dec 13 17:47:18 it supposedly lacks some features, but since the n900 is my first non-exclusive gps device, well, I'd not know Dec 13 17:48:56 The lack of features are intentional. Dec 13 17:49:12 Muhahaha. Dec 13 17:49:17 What? Dec 13 17:49:23 It costs _lots_ more if you license maps for use in a device with turn-by-turn navigation. Dec 13 17:49:46 There's someone at Nokia who says "Well, let's throw out all the good things about Maps on S60 when we port it to Maemo"= Dec 13 17:49:55 s/=/? Dec 13 17:49:58 yeh Dec 13 17:50:00 probally Dec 13 17:50:22 range: roughly he's called "the guy who runs the schedule" Dec 13 17:50:28 SpeedEvil: seriously lack of feautures? i would call it an understatement Dec 13 17:50:43 timeless_mbp: Sure, but I wouldn't call that "lack of features is intentional". Dec 13 17:50:58 i would : Dec 13 17:51:00 its completly useless Dec 13 17:51:00 timeless_mbp: I'd call that "Well, we had to put something on there, but sorry, there really wasn't the time". Dec 13 17:51:01 :) Dec 13 17:51:03 even google maps is more usefull :D Dec 13 17:51:23 Ceron^: to be fair, google maps (for web) doesn't include navigation Dec 13 17:51:33 yeh but atleast it makes routing that works Dec 13 17:51:39 and gives good directions Dec 13 17:52:01 even if its not voice/step-by-step guided Dec 13 17:52:02 I get sane routes from the map thingy Dec 13 17:52:08 Do you not/ Dec 13 17:52:11 no i dont Dec 13 17:52:22 why not? Dec 13 17:52:35 also it looses fix on me alot Dec 13 17:52:36 Is it the map quality in your area, or algorithmic problems/ Dec 13 17:52:38 Or UI? Dec 13 17:52:46 is the gps really that crappy or the software Dec 13 17:52:50 timeless_mbp: I just want Maemo Mapper := Dec 13 17:52:55 :) Dec 13 17:52:58 yeh give me maemo mapper Dec 13 17:53:03 il make my own charts :p Dec 13 17:53:05 I don't need Navigation. Dec 13 17:53:06 it's in extras-devel Dec 13 17:53:10 maemo mapper Dec 13 17:53:12 IIRC Dec 13 17:53:13 is it working? Dec 13 17:53:19 dunno Dec 13 17:53:35 I've tried osm2go, and it works. But that's not really a mapping program. Dec 13 17:53:43 yeh :\ Dec 13 17:54:10 you saw lardmans link to how to sretup google platittude? Dec 13 17:54:14 err latitude Dec 13 17:54:43 And I can understand that porting something like Ovi Maps takes time, but please put a "tech preview" sticker on it. Someone might begin to bash an otherwise (S60) good application :) Dec 13 17:54:53 SpeedEvil: no :O Dec 13 17:55:06 was it that online web app? Dec 13 17:55:12 i read about Dec 13 17:55:19 oh maemo mapper,I'd love to see that one also Dec 13 17:55:41 See http://talk.maemo.org/report.php?p=417739 Dec 13 17:56:00 err Dec 13 17:56:03 http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=417739&postcount=59 Dec 13 17:56:04 even Dec 13 17:56:14 SpeedEvil: Close one :) Dec 13 17:56:29 sorry Dec 13 17:56:31 can i install libqt4-dev on n900? Dec 13 17:57:18 and in which repo is it if it is somewhere? Dec 13 17:58:29 http://wiki.forum.nokia.com/index.php/Creating_Debian_packages_for_Maemo_5_Qt_applications_and_showing_in_the_application_menu " Dec 13 17:58:35 Depends: libqt4-dev" Dec 13 17:58:35 maemo-geolocation <- what repository is that in? Dec 13 17:58:44 so i guess it's installable Dec 13 18:00:18 http://tomch.com/maemaps.html :O Dec 13 18:00:24 yuizy: not a great idea Dec 13 18:00:26 but you can Dec 13 18:00:29 ok Dec 13 18:00:37 (you're likely to run out of space, which is a bad idea) Dec 13 18:00:43 yeah noticed it Dec 13 18:00:57 why does the example depend on libqt4-dev the? :( Dec 13 18:01:08 * timeless_mbp shrugs Dec 13 18:01:17 if it's in FN.c that's not our domain Dec 13 18:01:20 complain to them Dec 13 18:01:46 well, i meant should i make it depend on something else :p Dec 13 18:03:06 probably libqt4 Dec 13 18:05:34 is openttd optified? Dec 13 18:05:46 Ceron^: maemo-geolocation is in -devel AFAIK Dec 13 18:05:53 yeh installed it now :p Dec 13 18:06:42 * microlith wonders if there isn't a bug in the wifi driver Dec 13 18:07:17 how come? Dec 13 18:07:39 whenever I have it activated, it's pretty much an inevitability that it'll reboot at some point Dec 13 18:07:47 there are indeed bugs in the wifi driver at least for N8x0 Dec 13 18:07:53 memory leaks for sure Dec 13 18:08:43 N900 Bluetooth drops when I walk out of wifi reach ;) microlith, I've seen same kind of behaviour.... Dec 13 18:10:51 no reboots for me at all yet Dec 13 18:11:11 my n900 has rebooted a few times Dec 13 18:11:35 same here,but I've only used this for two days or so.. Dec 13 18:11:52 I mean no reboots yet Dec 13 18:13:00 * Jaffa hasn't had any reboots with 42-10, which is good Dec 13 18:13:08 i.e. since the summit Dec 13 18:13:20 * lcuk has never randomly rebooted Dec 13 18:13:40 tho ive run out of power a few times Dec 13 18:13:52 konttori: around? :) Dec 13 18:16:23 just tested the the TV-out today, a really positive surprise.. Dec 13 18:16:34 yeah, it's awesome Dec 13 18:17:03 konttori: theme maker is stuck at 1% again :( Dec 13 18:17:04 herm Dec 13 18:17:05 No need to drag a laptop with me for basic presentations @work :) Dec 13 18:17:36 when I try to install openvpn I get the following: Dec 13 18:17:39 Failed to fetch http://repository.maemo.org/extras-testing/pool/fremantle/free/l/lzo2/liblzo2-2_2.03-1maemo3_armel.deb Size mismatch Dec 13 18:18:07 anyone else having the same problem? Dec 13 18:18:24 apt-get update Dec 13 18:21:22 why doesnt openttd have music :D? Dec 13 18:21:27 i loved the music in that game ;P Dec 13 18:21:32 I think i tried that already, I'll try again Dec 13 18:21:38 thanks Dec 13 18:22:39 hi all Dec 13 18:24:10 ogg and mp3 can be equalised in frequency domain before sending to pulseaudio. Dec 13 18:24:44 without loading down cpu Dec 13 18:24:56 Ceron^: I guess cause it's midi? :) Dec 13 18:25:01 and player can render at 48khz too Dec 13 18:26:34 mmm rebootan Dec 13 18:27:19 oh, now it's stuck on the load thing with 5 circles Dec 13 18:27:28 so it is possible to make a mp3 playing program that uses less of the akku power Dec 13 18:27:37 yes. Dec 13 18:28:01 The neo1973 - 200MHz - underclocked to 100MHz - would play mp3 with the right codec - with about 80% CPU IIRC Dec 13 18:28:18 or actually - more like 50% IIRC Dec 13 18:28:23 And that had no FPU Dec 13 18:28:40 So with a FPU, and a 600MHz, not 200MHz - ... Dec 13 18:28:56 fuck yeah, my N900 will no longer successfully boot Dec 13 18:29:23 you've tried flashing it? Dec 13 18:29:26 reflash b4 the battery dies ? Dec 13 18:29:30 at least it still boots Dec 13 18:29:35 no Dec 13 18:29:36 it won't boot Dec 13 18:29:39 unsuccessfully... Dec 13 18:29:40 it's stuck on the 5 dots Dec 13 18:30:04 the graphical version of lilo :) Dec 13 18:30:09 you cant dual boot the n900 (2 kernels?) Dec 13 18:30:12 microlith, did you fill up the rootfs? Dec 13 18:30:21 cehteh, why not ? Dec 13 18:30:21 GAN900: had 60MB free last I looked Dec 13 18:30:27 can we see bootup scrollby in console? Dec 13 18:30:31 * microlith has been careful about that Dec 13 18:30:31 dunno that was a question Dec 13 18:30:34 microlith: better flash before the battery dies or you'll be screwed without another charged battery Dec 13 18:30:52 go1dfish, my sentiments exactly Dec 13 18:30:56 I haven't bricked mine yet, but About product does give me a lot of (null) Dec 13 18:30:58 go1dfish: awesome Dec 13 18:30:58 yes do not run down battery Dec 13 18:31:10 microlith: charge control is in software Dec 13 18:31:14 why hasnt it some failsafe boot? .. which maybe only reflashes it to factory state Dec 13 18:31:16 wont boot, wont charge Dec 13 18:31:24 go1dfish: good to see it's easy to brick it Dec 13 18:31:42 I think the fs layout on this thing was a bit of a blunder Dec 13 18:31:43 cehteh, you mean like on windows mobile phones do ? Dec 13 18:31:49 * microlith goes looking for how to reflash it Dec 13 18:31:53 i dont know windows mobile :) Dec 13 18:32:00 microlith: just pull the battery while you look Dec 13 18:32:03 go1dfish, why was it a blunder ? Dec 13 18:32:04 I have Dec 13 18:32:37 kynky: the root partition is way too small, it's ridiculously easy to fill Dec 13 18:32:43 cehteh, you can hard reset winmo phones to factory defaults Dec 13 18:33:30 go1dfish, i know its small, but why is that bad, it doesnt use the 32gb chip , but something faster, apps should be optified Dec 13 18:33:35 do I need that nokia pc suite stuff to get the firmware? Dec 13 18:33:40 cehteh: cortex is built to supposedly be unbrickable Dec 13 18:33:44 it can boot from nearly anything Dec 13 18:33:56 unbrickable in the permanently bricked sense Dec 13 18:34:10 hehe boot from barcode acquired by cam :P Dec 13 18:34:10 maemo flasher to flash, you need your serial numberin phone to access the site with the nokia n900 roms Dec 13 18:34:50 kynky: how big is your /usr/share/icons/ and what partition is it on? Dec 13 18:35:01 mine was 40+ MB Dec 13 18:35:27 so go1dfish, a candidate to be softlinked ? Dec 13 18:35:34 Macer: you there? Dec 13 18:35:48 kynky: thats what I did, but what I'm getting at is I think you'll run into a lot of problems like that long term Dec 13 18:35:50 ~flashing Dec 13 18:35:51 flashing is probably http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware Dec 13 18:35:53 well having a compressed copy if the factory state nand on the emmc and a backup boot which just reflashes that (with password) pin ... at least some way to unprick it on itself without a 2nd computer available Dec 13 18:36:04 it's like an achiles heel Dec 13 18:36:07 as maemo5 still in development, those things should be raised as bugs ? Dec 13 18:36:19 why didn't nokia get their driver signed? Dec 13 18:36:40 and the optification 'solution' feels quite hackish Dec 13 18:36:48 to make it possible that hackers cheat with it :) Dec 13 18:36:49 why ? Dec 13 18:37:21 why is it hackish ? Dec 13 18:38:00 /opt is really /home/opt Dec 13 18:38:35 maybe they shoulda just mounted partition on 32gb mem to /usr/ Dec 13 18:39:02 I would prefer something like that, I think too many design compromises were made Dec 13 18:39:05 well /home/ normally a user dir Dec 13 18:39:11 to facilitate having most of the device storage accessable as fat32 Dec 13 18:39:18 kynky, eMMC is slow. Dec 13 18:39:34 kynky, and it's mounted too late in boot. Dec 13 18:39:46 kynky: the reason they didnt mount 32G at /usr was for flashing reasons. Kind of tough compromise, no one really has a better solution (yet) though Dec 13 18:39:47 Plus that makes things brittle. Dec 13 18:39:54 GAN900, thout wuld suggest having a bigger rot, would ave cost more money Dec 13 18:40:06 root* Dec 13 18:40:33 kynky, yes, sticking a bigger PoP in there would cost more. Dec 13 18:40:56 and bigger ones only recently became available in volume anyway. Dec 13 18:41:45 but i would guess certain parts in /usr should be moved to /opt and that should be done via raising bugs ? wth respect to the 40mb of icons thing go1dfish suggested Dec 13 18:42:30 Nokia's not clueless. Dec 13 18:42:44 why doesnt it just --bind mount /usr to the emmc .. Dec 13 18:42:44 Raising bugs isn't going to change things. Dec 13 18:42:47 err, how does the nokia software updater function if the phone won't boot fully? Dec 13 18:42:59 Since there are several reasons they're not there already. Dec 13 18:43:12 cehteh, please read the scrollback. :) Dec 13 18:43:25 wasnt suggesting that nokia were cluless , just thought user feedback through a proper process was good,, they can always ignore suggestions Dec 13 18:43:29 microlith, flashing is handled by the bootloader. Dec 13 18:43:55 kynky, these things have already been considered. Dec 13 18:44:07 Wow, someone compiled Claws for N900 Dec 13 18:44:18 whats claws? Dec 13 18:44:18 and have not been implemented due to the reasons outline in the scrollback. Dec 13 18:44:34 GAN900, well then thats really good, im just not sure what has and hasnt been considered Dec 13 18:44:40 GAN900: uhm .. ok use a unix filesystem .. instead usb-storage do usb networking and use samba to export the filesystem for the windows lusers Dec 13 18:44:54 cehteh: it's not only windows stuff Dec 13 18:44:58 RST38h: around? Dec 13 18:45:13 RST38h: ah, yes) Dec 13 18:45:14 cehteh: it's not completely unreasonable to expect to be able to plug the device into a printer as a camera Dec 13 18:45:27 cehteh: or into a mp3 player that supports external flash Dec 13 18:45:34 brb Dec 13 18:45:40 RST38h: Can you show me a screenshot of FBReader for Maemo5 please? Dec 13 18:45:41 wazd: yea Dec 13 18:45:42 cehteh: a more complex way would be an indirect faked filesystem Dec 13 18:45:49 a moment Dec 13 18:45:49 SpeedEvil: that means pict-bridge not usb-storage should be also solveable by software Dec 13 18:45:51 here be dragons Dec 13 18:45:51 RST38h: thanks Dec 13 18:46:11 RST38h: I was thinking bout making 48x48 icons instead of 32x32 Dec 13 18:46:27 cehteh: for example - plug in device - the fs goes readonly - then a virtual FAT FS is made with all the files on it Dec 13 18:46:29 SpeedEvil: well i dont like this storage mode you cant continue playing mp3 while plugging it in for examle Dec 13 18:46:33 SpeedEvil: yeah, something like that feels ideal, but given inconsistencies in how different devices might access fat, I don't know how feasable it would be Dec 13 18:46:34 but ymmv ... Dec 13 18:46:44 cehteh: but that gets complex Dec 13 18:46:54 wazd: well, looks like at least the hildon fullscreen icon fits Dec 13 18:47:15 man, dont leave wifi on overnight without power supplied Dec 13 18:47:28 SpeedEvil: on the other hand, get some devs which code a 'virtual fat' filesystem which is exported over usb as storage while there can be anything else underlying .. qemu had that at least readonly Dec 13 18:47:44 cehteh: For example at least, you'd need to have an up-to-date database of the FS Dec 13 18:47:51 cehteh: so you could fake it Dec 13 18:47:51 yeah Dec 13 18:47:56 pwnguin: I dunno Dec 13 18:48:04 pwnguin: I had goo dresults with that. Dec 13 18:48:11 well i am not interested in such functionality but imo it would be superior to the current state Dec 13 18:48:25 at least there are no issues with implementing commercial vfat solutions (tomtom) Dec 13 18:48:26 pwnguin_n900: you must have been transferring data Dec 13 18:48:37 wazd: fms.komkon.org/screenshot00.png Dec 13 18:48:43 any sort of constant data transfer, no matter how small, really drains the battery Dec 13 18:48:56 i will just happily reformat my device with ext4 and turn the usb stroage stuff off :) Dec 13 18:48:57 i.e. if you leave ssh connected to a screen session running irssi all night... Dec 13 18:48:58 SpeedEvil, if not an uptodate daabase, then a mapping would be good Dec 13 18:48:59 it's gonna die Dec 13 18:49:09 pwnguin; ssh'd into n900, doing while true;do sleep 20;echo battery;done - lasted >24h using 80% bat Dec 13 18:49:28 cehteh, me2 :) but not ext4, ext3 instead Dec 13 18:49:31 wazd: this is the new version with somewhat changed toolbar contents Dec 13 18:49:33 kynky: you can't do that - you've got to make the FAT FS at plug-in time Dec 13 18:49:45 (virtual fs) Dec 13 18:49:57 goldfish: i was syncing via banshee, but i shut that down when i went to sleep Dec 13 18:50:13 kynde: well maybe ext3 .. depends on the kernel version available then .. while ext4 performs much better with its delayed allocation and extend things Dec 13 18:50:32 omweather is only updatin every 4 hours Dec 13 18:50:39 pwnguin_n900: IM accounts? Dec 13 18:50:41 less writes on the flash, better performance, less wear ... Dec 13 18:50:50 cehteh, reason not for ext4 is purely because of its maturity, data integrity is more important to me than minimal speed increase Dec 13 18:50:52 go1dfish: just skype Dec 13 18:51:04 in newer kernels you can also make ext4 without journal Dec 13 18:51:14 I've heard skype is a bit heavier batterywise than jabber/gtalk Dec 13 18:51:15 ext2 ? :) Dec 13 18:51:22 but not so bad as the msn plugin Dec 13 18:51:32 It's a pity SD/MMC don't support 'don't care about block' yet Dec 13 18:51:42 kynky: ext4 is kindof mature yet, and having metadata checksumed is actually a advantage over ext3 Dec 13 18:51:55 and hey its only a mobile device i make backups anyways Dec 13 18:52:06 nsu seems to be a no-go Dec 13 18:52:11 SpeedEvil: there are actually theoretical problems with that Dec 13 18:52:15 is powertop available? Dec 13 18:52:22 luke-jr: I know. Dec 13 18:52:33 luke-jr: but it's better than the current solutions. Dec 13 18:52:34 i am also tempted to try btrfs someday there, only depends if newer kernels will be maintained for the n900 Dec 13 18:52:46 pwnguin_n900: yeah, but requires debug symbols in the app Dec 13 18:52:47 cehteh, i just heard few horror stories with ext4 thats all, would give it at least a year before i move my data to it Dec 13 18:52:48 luke-jr: that is - where the SD/MMC card has to try and guess Dec 13 18:52:49 (wile btrfs is not ready yet for sure) Dec 13 18:52:57 SpeedEvil: eg, if you put the SD card into a Windows PC, will the first read have it detect corruption and wipe the data? Dec 13 18:53:09 kynky: i am using ext4 on a lot machines without problems Dec 13 18:53:12 pwnguin_n900: or at least, I have the powertop binary on my phone, but it hasn't done me any good Dec 13 18:53:14 luke-jr: it'll ask you to format it Dec 13 18:53:25 luke-jr: err - I think we're talking at cross purposes. Dec 13 18:53:25 microlith: not that Dec 13 18:53:27 don't recall which repo it's in Dec 13 18:53:31 cehteh, alot of ppl say te same, but with data loss, im more paranoid Dec 13 18:53:39 there where the problems with improperly written apps which may loose data under rare circumstances .. but thats fixed too Dec 13 18:53:45 SpeedEvil: I mean if you try to access a SD used as MTD as block mode Dec 13 18:53:58 SpeedEvil: trying to read a block would probably wipe the MTD data Dec 13 18:54:08 luke-jr: I mean - rm file. If you can tell the SD card that you no longer want any of the blocks in that file, it can now bulk erase them and get them ready for re-use. Dec 13 18:54:10 well the only insurace against data loss are backups .. point Dec 13 18:54:18 cehteh, read more of the scrollback. :) Dec 13 18:54:26 SpeedEvil: my point is that MTD and block mode need to be exclusive :p Dec 13 18:54:26 luke-jr: rather than trying to assume that all user-visible blocks are wanted forever Dec 13 18:54:28 GAN900: why? Dec 13 18:54:31 not interest :) Dec 13 18:54:45 luke-jr: I'm not quite arguing that. Dec 13 18:55:19 luke-jr: I'm arguing that explicit 'I don't care about this block' commands - that would functionally erase the block - could improve performance. Dec 13 18:55:24 cehteh, yep always have backups :) , and on an unrelated note , raid isnt backups Dec 13 18:55:37 oh really? :) Dec 13 18:55:51 android had an interesting powe on demand approach. not sure how they handle latency Dec 13 18:56:01 luke-jr: Due to the large erase block size in reality Dec 13 18:56:15 well and not all data is *that* valuable .. some mp3's on my phone who cares ... Dec 13 18:56:35 SpeedEvil: so you want TRIM support? ;) Dec 13 18:56:39 not all data is the same :) Dec 13 18:56:43 pics/videos .. ok .. lets transfer them to another machine Dec 13 18:56:44 cehteh, then do assume things. ;) Dec 13 18:56:57 javispedro: yeah - that's what it's called Dec 13 18:57:00 cehteh, FAT is far from the only issue involved. :) Dec 13 18:57:00 Nokia needs to update ovi maps and release ovi suite like Dec 13 18:57:02 yesterday Dec 13 18:57:03 :( Dec 13 18:57:06 javispedro: TRIM in SD/MMC Dec 13 18:57:12 * RST38h moos at javispedro Dec 13 18:57:18 hiyo RST38h Dec 13 18:57:39 GAN900: i seen speed .. what else? Dec 13 18:58:27 whats the latency nand vs emmc (some mmc/sd controlers have quite high latencies sometimes) Dec 13 18:59:02 cehteh: quite a bit better - AIUI Dec 13 18:59:08 who has built tear+mplayer as alternative video web browser? Dec 13 18:59:42 Nand seems to be a little faster than mmc in all the tests I've done Dec 13 18:59:59 instead bind mount a unionfs would be another solution .. but well dont say i recommend that Dec 13 19:00:04 i can get some flash to play using low quality Dec 13 19:00:06 mmc is effectively nand Dec 13 19:00:13 RST38h: it's really not Dec 13 19:00:23 sdxc wil have lower latency , but then that will use stupid exfat, although whats the lowest latency external mem cards you can use for n900 ? Dec 13 19:00:26 RST38h: mmc has a flash controller in front of it. Dec 13 19:00:34 SpeedEvil: for throughput sure .. but i would be interested in write latency, what you maybe dont really want to test :) Dec 13 19:00:44 RST38h: the SoC is the controller for the NAND Dec 13 19:00:45 Speed: Behind which, there is NAND Dec 13 19:01:02 Speed: And, actually, every NAND chip has a controller :) Dec 13 19:01:05 cehteh, aufs > unionfs :) lots of work been done on linux-live-tools project Dec 13 19:01:32 RST38h: yes - I know. The control of the flash controller at low level gives you certain options with NAND that you don't have with NAND behind a MMC controller Dec 13 19:01:48 ManuelSE, mplayer wont be using the dsp though Dec 13 19:01:54 the state of unionfs on linux is kindof insane .. people use it successfully but i wont hold my hand in fire for it Dec 13 19:02:07 cehteh: I will. Dec 13 19:02:13 * SpeedEvil holds cehtehs hand in the fire. Dec 13 19:02:20 outch :P Dec 13 19:02:35 unionfs and aufs are interesting Dec 13 19:02:37 * cehteh installs a unionfs on SpeedEvils n900 Dec 13 19:02:39 and needed - but yes Dec 13 19:02:51 along with flash on swap patches Dec 13 19:03:05 compcache ramzswap ... Dec 13 19:03:14 not quite Dec 13 19:03:25 well its really nice i used it on my laptop Dec 13 19:03:30 I haven't seen any swap patches that remove any of the disk assumptions. Dec 13 19:03:31 i'm going to rebuild 2.6.28 kernel packages and enable things like console bootup output. Any other suggestions for nice things to have in the kernel that aren't there now? Dec 13 19:03:36 gives noticeable performance improvements Dec 13 19:03:54 disk assumptions? as in rotating media? Dec 13 19:03:58 For example - readahead is essentially useless on swap-flash, and you really, really want to do linear writes. Dec 13 19:04:00 yes Dec 13 19:04:10 * microlith attempts n900 recovery, pt.2 Dec 13 19:04:10 jebba: kexec? Dec 13 19:04:17 cehteh: http://pages.cs.wisc.edu/~msaxena/FlashVMpaper.html Dec 13 19:04:20 compcache has a ssd mode and checks the rotational flag Dec 13 19:04:44 Macer: you there? Dec 13 19:04:51 http://www.linux-live.org/ guy behind this really working hard for linux to be used on flash and ways of getting linux file support on fat partitions, he came up with good ideas on how todo things Dec 13 19:05:04 well first and foremost it swaps to ram compressed .. which beats any disk even SSD's Dec 13 19:05:10 cehteh: yes. Dec 13 19:05:50 i am more concerned about the kernel future on the n900 .. will nokia maintain newer kernels for it? Dec 13 19:05:53 mount noatime :) Dec 13 19:05:54 RST38h: Have I lost something? :) Dec 13 19:06:00 cehteh: unlikely Dec 13 19:06:08 i guessed so Dec 13 19:06:15 herm Dec 13 19:06:15 RST38h: I have stupid IRC history in Miranda Dec 13 19:06:19 cehteh: Nokia tends to drop support for ProductX long before ProductY is released Dec 13 19:06:19 I think it's likely that there will be some kernel updates. Dec 13 19:06:21 my irssi just freaked out Dec 13 19:06:21 so next .. will the community do so? Dec 13 19:06:28 I think it unlikely it will continue forever. Dec 13 19:06:36 cehteh: hopefully whatever they've done for n900 will be in linux-omap (or even linus) kernel. Dec 13 19:06:36 cehteh: not really, but there are many developers who are and will continue to push patches upstream Dec 13 19:06:40 SpeedEvil: Not if past history is any guide. Dec 13 19:06:55 cehteh: see N810. 2.6.21 only Dec 13 19:06:55 jebba: a lot of it already is in Dec 13 19:07:10 so changes nokia made for linux kernel wont be adopted im main kernel sources ? surely thats upto kernel maintainers ? Dec 13 19:07:15 luke-jr: well n810 has some closed source problems Dec 13 19:07:27 the n900 kernel is not tainted Dec 13 19:07:35 kynky: I dunno how much discussion nokia has been doing behind closed doors. Dec 13 19:07:36 kynky: mainline won't take anything for proprietary drivers, legal or not Dec 13 19:07:41 so at least in theory the community can maintain newer kernels for it Dec 13 19:07:50 ali1234: ya, but it's the parts that aren't there that are often critical. I did a linux-omap git kernel from the other day and it didn't go so hot. Or too hot, perhaps! Dec 13 19:07:50 cehteh: N810's violations were addressed Dec 13 19:07:50 Actually, prior to Diablo, N8x0 was 2.6.18. Dec 13 19:07:50 what's tainted for the n810? I thought everything is upstream now Dec 13 19:07:56 So I take that back, they _did_ upgrade the kernel. Dec 13 19:08:08 derf: o really? interesting Dec 13 19:08:22 jebba: you probably had the wrong branch, a lot of stuff is in for-next still Dec 13 19:08:52 the problem is that Nokia is a jerk and won't release code for the battery charging Dec 13 19:08:56 ali1234: there is no for-next branch in linux-omap. Though I did see a lot of *huge* merges yesterday, so may give it another shot. Dec 13 19:09:15 so the battery charging glue will always be an additional patch Dec 13 19:09:23 luke-jr: or reverse Dec 13 19:09:28 luke-jr: as long its just firmware which needs to be loaded thats not a problem (but still nasty) Dec 13 19:09:32 SpeedEvil: ? Dec 13 19:09:35 unless it gets reverse engneered ? Dec 13 19:09:37 cehteh: it's not firmware, it's software Dec 13 19:09:38 luke-jr: or it is reverse engineered Dec 13 19:09:48 luke-jr: for the n900? Dec 13 19:09:54 luke-jr: on user-space side, isn't it? Dec 13 19:09:55 SpeedEvil: you might recall I am the only one to ever attempt to reverse engineer it Dec 13 19:09:58 kernel i mean Dec 13 19:10:03 luke-jr: no, you're not. Dec 13 19:10:03 felipec: yes, but needs kernel glue Dec 13 19:10:11 SpeedEvil: AFAIK Dec 13 19:10:15 (for low levels of attempt) Dec 13 19:10:24 luke-jr: and the kernel glue is not available? Dec 13 19:10:24 * SpeedEvil wants to look at it some more. Dec 13 19:10:25 well the kernel glue is available in source so it can be maintained on newer kernels Dec 13 19:10:32 felipec: it is, but will never be merged Dec 13 19:10:42 jebba: i meant omap-for-linus Dec 13 19:10:42 would be useful; for mer project i guess ? Dec 13 19:10:59 Hi, is there any official position about the support of maemo n900 on Nokia N900 ? Dec 13 19:11:10 jjmarin: that doesn't even make sense Dec 13 19:11:12 alas Dec 13 19:11:13 it lives again Dec 13 19:11:14 lol Dec 13 19:11:15 luke-jr: well i would say the maemo/n900 community should maintain their own kernel Dec 13 19:11:23 s/maemo n900/maemo 6/ Dec 13 19:11:24 jjmarin meant: Hi, is there any official position about the support of maemo 6 on Nokia N900 ? Dec 13 19:11:36 cehteh: I would say Nokia needs to stop being jerks and let us maintain all the drivers Dec 13 19:11:51 luke-jr: i dont count on that Dec 13 19:11:52 jjmarin: AFAIK it's planned Dec 13 19:11:59 jjmarin: the official position is NO, said by the vicepresident of n-series himself. Dec 13 19:12:02 better do what we can do Dec 13 19:12:34 luke-jr, that claim is quite false. Dec 13 19:12:45 luke-jr, you're nowhere near the first. Dec 13 19:13:03 Capacitive bullshit. Dec 13 19:13:06 GAN900: that just makes things worse Dec 13 19:13:07 ali1234: do you know about linux-omap-dss2/linux.git ? Why is that not in linux-omap? Also, which is preferred for n900? thx Dec 13 19:13:26 jebba: dss2 is now upstream Dec 13 19:13:29 * cehteh thinks he should setup a n900 kernel git on his server ... merge omap and linus kernel plus nokias stuff Dec 13 19:13:41 cehteh, ++ Dec 13 19:13:54 cehteh: that would be fantastic. Dec 13 19:13:54 then see if we can gather some people who work on it taking to each new kernel release Dec 13 19:13:55 luke-jr: why can't you maintain the upstream stuff? Dec 13 19:14:11 it's not like Linus would favor Nokia maintainers Dec 13 19:14:25 well i dont have time to do that alone i can support git and serve the repository and do *some* merging but not all Dec 13 19:14:34 and i still dont have a device .. Dec 13 19:14:49 and moreover if i have only one device i dont want to brick it with kernel experiments :P Dec 13 19:14:50 Can anybody show me FBReader for Maemo 5? Dec 13 19:14:53 as long as there a clear seperation of kernel to binary blobs, all should be good ? Dec 13 19:14:59 So, there is more "No" than "Yes", only one Dec 13 19:15:07 wazd: I gave you the url Dec 13 19:15:08 jebba: don't know for sure, you'll have to check the ml archive - search for rx-51 stuff, and anything posted from a nokia.com email address Dec 13 19:15:15 felipec: well there are changes to linux-omap-dss2 as of last friday. Dec 13 19:15:17 wazd: fms.komkon.org/screenshot00.png Dec 13 19:15:24 kynky: 'good' would be overestimated :) .. call it 'doable' Dec 13 19:15:25 * RST38h reboots to linux Dec 13 19:15:30 RST38h: ah Dec 13 19:15:32 RST38h: sorry Dec 13 19:15:37 so .. bbl Dec 13 19:15:39 kynky: im sure you'll get a letter from greg k-h Dec 13 19:15:47 :) Dec 13 19:16:29 any url about the support of maemo 6 on Nokia N900, or only the declarations about Maemo on Nokia Forum. Dec 13 19:16:33 jebba: or just wait and see what shows up in 2.6.33 Dec 13 19:16:37 kynky: ubuntu gets around the binary kernel blob by having the user link it at startup Dec 13 19:16:54 felipec: ? Dec 13 19:17:03 I don't recall any binary blob in the official N900 kernels Dec 13 19:17:19 if you exclude peripheral firmwares Dec 13 19:17:20 courmisch: the kernels contain glue for the binary blob in userland Dec 13 19:17:38 yeah, that's called the kernel API Dec 13 19:17:44 well with all the smart ppl here, im sure some sort of solution can be figured out Dec 13 19:17:44 RST38h: thanks Dec 13 19:17:53 RST38h: do you think 48x48 icons will fit? Dec 13 19:18:00 RST38h: looks like it Dec 13 19:18:11 courmisch: that's called a loophole in the GPL exception Dec 13 19:18:12 wazd: hildon fullsize icon fits as you see Dec 13 19:18:16 so, yes, maybe Dec 13 19:18:31 RST38h: no, I mean fit the width :) Dec 13 19:18:33 hmm. if its tivoized , greg cant do much but cry or write the drivers himsef Dec 13 19:18:47 lol Dec 13 19:18:52 wazd: Ah...should try Dec 13 19:18:53 so you'd basically ban any non-GPL software from running on Linux Dec 13 19:19:01 pwnguin_n900: what? tivoized is signed kernels... Dec 13 19:19:06 it isn't tivoized (yet) Dec 13 19:19:13 luke-jr: you said Nokia should you maintain the drivers... what's preventing you from doing that? Dec 13 19:19:18 regarding me wondering AAC+ network streaming energy performance: 7 hours 15 minutes on AAC+ over WLAN. (also an openvpn connection but I'm sure it's just noise in that number) Dec 13 19:19:19 courmisch: no, I said it's a loophole in the exception, not a problem with the exception itself Dec 13 19:19:27 felipec: no code Dec 13 19:19:48 luke-jr: i thought it also had a bunch of userland components Dec 13 19:20:04 ali1234, Maemo 6 wont be tivoized either. Go back and re-read the platsec talk. :) Dec 13 19:20:18 pwnguin_n900: probably, but I've never had any experience with Tivo, and the term 'tivoized' to me means that problem Dec 13 19:20:22 luke-jr: apt-get source kernel? Dec 13 19:20:32 well, the DRM will be tivoized according to current plans Dec 13 19:20:33 felipec: these drivers are not in the kernel Dec 13 19:20:47 GAN900: i was at that talk, and i understand it to be saying that maemo 6 has the ability to be tivoized but "trust us, we won't" basically Dec 13 19:20:58 luke-jr: on the N900? Dec 13 19:21:09 felipec: that is my understanding Dec 13 19:21:25 I only have a N810 Dec 13 19:21:27 luke-jr: blog about the issue and stop complaining Dec 13 19:21:27 :P Dec 13 19:21:30 RST38h: why the hell it have "rotate" button I wonder :) Dec 13 19:21:35 Stskeeps: we're discussing, not complaining Dec 13 19:21:43 Stskeeps: he asked why I couldn't just maintain it myself Dec 13 19:21:51 has* Dec 13 19:21:54 all drivers are in the SDK, but some I doubt they can ever be merged Dec 13 19:21:54 wazd: I added it there =) Dec 13 19:21:59 RST38h: ah :) Dec 13 19:22:13 RST38h: autorotate doesn't work well? Dec 13 19:22:14 wazd: because when you read on the tablet, you often feel the urge to rotate it Dec 13 19:22:23 autorotate is not implemented Dec 13 19:22:27 RST38h: oooh Dec 13 19:22:46 RST38h: that makes sense :) Dec 13 19:22:46 RST38h: it's implemented on some apps Dec 13 19:22:46 like the photo app Dec 13 19:22:59 * ljp hates autorotate Dec 13 19:23:02 they managed to get linux working on htc devices by sorting out driver issues, im sure the same can be done for n900 (sorting out driver issues that is, with n900 being noted as nokia as one of the most open devices around) Dec 13 19:23:04 I'm with ljp. Dec 13 19:23:06 go1dfish: we're talking bout particular FBReader Dec 13 19:23:25 oh sorry Dec 13 19:23:35 autorotate is all well and good, but when you got it, it sometimes is really annoying Dec 13 19:23:37 did FBReader get optified yet? Dec 13 19:23:42 oh shit, sb2 decided to update itself Dec 13 19:23:53 kynky: a lot of the ktc-linux is reverse engineered drivers from scratch Dec 13 19:23:57 *htc Dec 13 19:24:04 I've been using FBReader on my zaurus's for years Dec 13 19:24:18 ali1234, exactly , if thats the only way, than thats the only way Dec 13 19:24:29 autorotate based on the accelerometer in FBReader would be annoying, but it would be cool to have an option to make it switch like the phone app, based on keyboard slider Dec 13 19:24:49 Yes... rotating is good. It's the "auto" that's the problem. Dec 13 19:24:53 kynky: sure, and it's a lot easier to reverse engineer binary drivers when they're running on linux, then when they're running on windows mobile Dec 13 19:26:01 wazd: did you change the ui around already? if so, post a screenshot pls (shorten thru tinyurl or so) Dec 13 19:26:15 * RST38h is seriously thinking about disabling text copy in FBReader by default Dec 13 19:26:15 guess it helps the linux on htc devices stuff,now that htc are pushing android Dec 13 19:26:23 This shit never ever works on NITs Dec 13 19:26:33 Anyone would like it enabled? Dec 13 19:26:43 RST38h, just the same way as xtermminal deals with text copy ? Dec 13 19:27:04 kynky: well why not you install current fbreader and find out for yourself? Dec 13 19:27:06 RST38h: my vote is for disabled Dec 13 19:27:18 More votes? Dec 13 19:27:22 kynky: I suspect a big part of it is that 100% of Linux developers for HTC are working on it, whereas because Nokia ships Linux, only 1% of Linux developers on Nxx0 care to fix the problem Dec 13 19:27:34 luke-jr, very true Dec 13 19:27:46 RST38h, you had a screenshot ? Dec 13 19:27:55 RST38h: i could also kill you with a chainsaw, but that would be besides the point, i prefer screenshots as i forgot my n900 at home Dec 13 19:28:00 and i am sitting at work Dec 13 19:28:15 Screenshots of WHAT would you like, gentlemen? Dec 13 19:28:16 naxxatoe: Are all the drivers of that chainsaw GPL though. Dec 13 19:28:47 I am basically asking REGULAR fbreader users whether they want text selection disabled by default or not Dec 13 19:28:50 RST38h: I want a screenshot of the most important BME sources... Dec 13 19:28:53 <.< Dec 13 19:28:56 RST38h, thought some1 asked for a screenshot of fbreader earlier Dec 13 19:29:02 SpeedEvil: i dont get your point ;9 Dec 13 19:29:09 kynky: wazd did, and got his screenshot Dec 13 19:29:16 btw, has anyone done a binary diff of N810 BME to N900 BME? Dec 13 19:29:18 how much changed? Dec 13 19:29:25 * RST38h sighs Dec 13 19:29:28 guess i will have to install, to see what it looks like Dec 13 19:29:30 andre__: hey :) do you think there's any chance bug 6360 will get any kind of attention? I'm not really sure it worth it but otoh the facts are strange enough to demand investigation imho. Dec 13 19:29:31 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6360 Headset problems Dec 13 19:29:59 actually, on second hand, binary diff wasn't trivial :x Dec 13 19:29:59 luke-jr: also the fact that HTC windows mobile and linux phones are almost identical helps Dec 13 19:30:06 PaulFertser: think it's a connector issue if anything Dec 13 19:30:10 and N900's ARM upgrade will probably make it vary hugely Dec 13 19:30:12 PaulFertser: i have funny behaviour on my pc at times for instance Dec 13 19:30:45 Stskeeps: if it was connector, then the other headset wouldn't work flawlessly with it i guess. Dec 13 19:31:11 hi PaulFertser, so for the original reporter it's fixed and for that special case it *looks* like a hardware problem. hence no further investigations currently... Dec 13 19:31:23 the motorola droid is cortex a8 Dec 13 19:31:43 no idea why i said that Dec 13 19:31:47 lol Dec 13 19:32:19 courmisch: if someone wants to test bleeding edge/git kernel code with n900, which tree is best to use? master branch of linux-omap? (note, i have built a package a week ago of linux-omap for n900, but it didn't boot, but that may have just been that day's code). Dec 13 19:32:22 RST38h, disabled. Dec 13 19:32:39 is there any real gain/loss by going with Dropbear for SSH instead of OpenSSH? Dec 13 19:32:40 RST38h, native scrollbar should be off by default. Dec 13 19:32:59 i went with openssh Dec 13 19:33:00 RST38h, FBReader progress bar should be ON. Dec 13 19:33:11 andre__: you talking about hardware/software dichotomy again, oh my. Imagine there's some threshold set badly, that makes 95% of headsets work "ok" and 5% of otherwise good headsets not getting detected. Altering the threshold will solve it for good. Can you imagine it? Why are you so sure it's not the case here? Dec 13 19:33:15 GAN900: agreed Dec 13 19:33:22 jebba: if you want to test bleeding edge code you need a serial console, otherwise you'll just end up at "it doesn't work, oh well" Dec 13 19:33:30 GAN: It is on Dec 13 19:33:47 GAN: I have not yet disabled the scrollbar, although I have it disabled for myself Dec 13 19:33:50 GAN: Should I? Dec 13 19:34:02 PaulFertser, you did read "that special case" in my answer here, did you? Dec 13 19:34:12 RST38h, native scrollbar serves no purpose and looks ugly. Dec 13 19:34:12 ali1234: yes, serial console would be fantastic too. Not sure what pins to use, but there appear to be a number to pick from under the battery. Not sure if that's documented anywhere though. Dec 13 19:34:13 RST38h: I'd prefer native scrollbar disabled Dec 13 19:34:18 that answers your last question. I am NOT "so sure". Dec 13 19:34:25 Especially in Fremantle. Dec 13 19:34:26 Ok. No to native scrollbar Dec 13 19:34:31 How about tap scrolling? Dec 13 19:34:33 evening all Dec 13 19:34:53 RST38h, I can't get it to respond reliably here. Dec 13 19:34:53 jebba: those test points are documented for n800/n810, they're different but similar enough that it should be possible to figure out. i don't have a link to the docs though Dec 13 19:35:00 jebba: never tried, you'd need to adapt the board file, and fix the boot sequence not to fail due to missing drivers Dec 13 19:35:09 RST38h, so my personal pref is off. Dec 13 19:35:13 RST38h: tapping the top/bottom halves to switch pages? Dec 13 19:35:14 ok Dec 13 19:35:19 goldfish: yes Dec 13 19:35:29 I think I would disagree with GAN900 here, this one isn't as clear cut IMO Dec 13 19:35:30 GAN: Try adding 100ms delay between taps Dec 13 19:35:36 andre__: you can't be sure there's only one case just because there's only one bugreport at bugs.maemo.org. Probably many devices were silently (or after a useless talk with "care") returned/exchanged. I mean the case is/was interesting enough and why do you think it doesn't deserve to be diagnosed? Dec 13 19:35:45 luke-jr: thinking of making a Gentoo port to the N900? xD Dec 13 19:35:47 "not clear cut" means "off" to me, as I am making a default config Dec 13 19:35:51 touch tap feels like the most native-ish interface for the device to me, but the rockerbar would be good to Dec 13 19:35:51 Can you bind r to screen rotate? Dec 13 19:36:01 RST38h: cool Dec 13 19:36:03 GAN: I can but why? I will give you a rotate icon Dec 13 19:36:09 courmisch: ./arch/arm/configs/rx51_defconfig there is that which should be a good .config i suppose. And ./arch/arm/mach-omap2/board-rx51.c. Or perhaps i'm not following what you mean by "board file" Dec 13 19:36:11 Ah, nevermind. Dec 13 19:36:15 PaulFertser: Please tell me where I said that I don't "think it doesn't deserve to be diagnosed" Dec 13 19:36:31 * GAN900 wonders about having portrait as default. Dec 13 19:36:34 I wrote that there are no further investigations currently. that's all. Dec 13 19:36:45 there's no personal opinion at all included. Dec 13 19:36:49 GAN: Probably not a good idea Dec 13 19:36:50 andre__: btw, there's a followup on the ticket where another guy says he experiences the same and asks for a workaround since returning/exchanging the device is not a viable option for him. Dec 13 19:36:52 GAN900: personally I think I'd use portait more... Dec 13 19:36:58 I like defaults that encourage new users to use applications "correctly". *g* Dec 13 19:37:02 yes. Dec 13 19:37:03 * RST38h also uses portrait Dec 13 19:37:03 but given how little other apps use portrait so far, I'd still default to landscape Dec 13 19:37:11 I use nothing but portrait. Dec 13 19:37:14 andre__: sorry, i tend to forget about difference between personal and corporate opinions. Dec 13 19:37:28 I've always used fb reader portrait to Dec 13 19:37:34 So, ok: landscape, no tap scrolling by default, scrollbar disabled, text selection disabled Dec 13 19:37:38 jebba: board files are in arch/arm/mach-*/board-*.c Dec 13 19:37:41 jebba: hmm, kay, but I am not sure the phone will like to be booted without a modem Dec 13 19:37:44 Everyone comfortable with these as DEFAULTS? Dec 13 19:37:58 is the rocker enabled for paging by default? Dec 13 19:38:01 Ah, and the fbreader progress bar enabled Dec 13 19:38:07 yes Dec 13 19:38:07 last I tried on the n900 it wasn't Dec 13 19:38:09 cool Dec 13 19:38:14 Well, I made some changes :) Dec 13 19:38:17 RST38h: and green on black like in the good ole days? Dec 13 19:38:18 then yeah, those sound great Dec 13 19:38:24 Paul: No Dec 13 19:38:27 RST38h, general had a problem with that earlier afaik Dec 13 19:38:31 Black on light-wheat, like it should be Dec 13 19:38:41 heh Dec 13 19:38:44 lcuk: Well, seems to work for me Dec 13 19:38:46 black on white Dec 13 19:38:54 RST38h, yes. Dec 13 19:38:56 is the only true way Dec 13 19:38:56 Ooh Dec 13 19:38:57 jebba: look for a tree that has arch/arm/mach-omap2/board-rx51.c in it, that will be a good place to start Dec 13 19:38:57 lcuk: People have got problems with black on white Dec 13 19:39:00 lcuk, good one. Dec 13 19:39:02 lcuk: It is hard on the eyes Dec 13 19:39:09 white can get very bright on the device Dec 13 19:39:16 backlight Dec 13 19:39:17 lcuk: the light-wheat is ALMOST like white Dec 13 19:39:21 jebba: although anything with the defconfig should have the board too Dec 13 19:39:23 white on black should be default. Dec 13 19:39:23 Just a little bit off Dec 13 19:39:24 almost != Dec 13 19:39:26 partiucularly in low light, I haven't tried the light-wheat backdrop, but that sounds reasonable Dec 13 19:39:46 ali1234: ya, the linux-omap tree has that, that's what i meant. And it has that ./arch/arm/configs/rx51_defconfig too. That's what i used last time, fwiw Dec 13 19:39:49 remove all color and if required make text grey Dec 13 19:39:58 Can anyone pass me a link/hint where to find why it's preferred to have a light background? Traditional terminals were white or green on black. And i've personally tried green on black on FBReader and it worked ok for me. Dec 13 19:40:11 Please. Dec 13 19:40:16 PaulFertser, real books are white Dec 13 19:40:17 lcuk,gan,goldfish: All right, next version will hopefully get a new set of icons from wazd and these additional defaults Dec 13 19:40:20 thats where it comes from Dec 13 19:40:27 jebba: stuff gets added in stages so the presence of those files doesn't guarantee 100% working kernel Dec 13 19:40:29 and for something like the kindle works better Dec 13 19:40:30 PaulFertser: most humans read paper books Dec 13 19:40:31 RST38h, thank god. Dec 13 19:40:35 lcuk: real books do not emit light, that's a real difference. Dec 13 19:40:42 The new FBReader icons are unusable. Dec 13 19:40:43 jebba: this is why you need serial console - that is usually the very first thing to get implemented Dec 13 19:40:47 hence me mentioning the kindle for this very reason Dec 13 19:40:48 PaulFertser: exactly :) Dec 13 19:40:52 GAN: Now, you go and talk to Geometer to integrate the change sinto his codebase :) Dec 13 19:40:59 white on dark is much better for light emiting displays Dec 13 19:41:00 and vice versa for reflective Dec 13 19:41:05 go1dfish: so probably what's good for real books might be bad for terminals? Dec 13 19:41:09 GAN: I already switched to the older iconset, so even the current version will be ok Dec 13 19:41:22 real men have a real book and a torch Dec 13 19:41:27 GAN: But of course a specially designed maemo set will look better Dec 13 19:41:30 PaulFertser: one of the first things I did on my n900 was correct the terminal colors Dec 13 19:41:32 RST38h, nearly got my head taken off last time I tried to discuss icons. Dec 13 19:41:35 LinuxCode, sore subject atm Dec 13 19:41:40 lcuk, hehe Dec 13 19:41:45 * lcuk reads by liqtorch Dec 13 19:41:50 haha Dec 13 19:41:57 on n810 Dec 13 19:42:01 interesting concept... Dec 13 19:42:01 go1dfish: i've tried reading books on my freerunner and to me green on black looked nice and comfortable, does this make me a pervert? Dec 13 19:42:07 GAN900: fwiw, i have portrait available in the browser Dec 13 19:42:11 Pauk: yes it does. Dec 13 19:42:15 i only use it for a very small portion of my browsing Dec 13 19:42:19 And an old fart pervert, for that =) Dec 13 19:42:20 (when i'm reading newspapers) Dec 13 19:42:30 PaulFertser: I used white/gray/green on black on some of my older devices Dec 13 19:42:31 andre__: do you by any chance know the faith of the device in question? Dec 13 19:42:36 RST38h: i'm not old ;) Dec 13 19:42:42 i would never want portrait for sms chat Dec 13 19:42:43 See? A pervert! Dec 13 19:42:45 PaulFertser: dunno if it makes much difference, but theoretically a mostly black screen uses more power than a mostly white screen Dec 13 19:42:51 before transflexive screens, the way the zaurus displays were lit, at least the early ones, black on white felt better Dec 13 19:42:56 i sometimes use portrait for dialing Dec 13 19:42:58 But anyways, N900 is not a terminal, so green-on-black does not apply here Dec 13 19:43:00 RST38h: i programmed your response ;) Dec 13 19:43:04 Outside of osso-xterm that is Dec 13 19:43:04 timeless, i can see it if there were a decent OSK Dec 13 19:43:07 but i generally switch to landscape if i'm sitting down Dec 13 19:43:07 PaulFertser, hmm? what do you mean by "faith" here? :) Dec 13 19:43:13 but with the SL6000 and C3100 (and IMO the IT's) I think light on dark would be better Dec 13 19:43:19 lcuk: some pipe dreams are too expensive Dec 13 19:43:25 it depends on the display Dec 13 19:43:28 andre__: what happened to the device and the headset? Was the root of the problem found? Etc. Dec 13 19:43:28 * lcuk nods Dec 13 19:43:39 roughly you're talking t9 or the other one Dec 13 19:43:47 PaulFertser: abusing a triager is abuse Dec 13 19:43:48 fuck. Dec 13 19:43:49 give it a rest Dec 13 19:43:52 autobuilder. Dec 13 19:43:53 timeless_mbp, this is FBReader. Dec 13 19:43:56 andre__ deals in software Dec 13 19:43:56 PaulFertser, no idea, sorry Dec 13 19:44:13 timeless_mbp: it? Dec 13 19:44:34 stop abusing him. Dec 13 19:44:37 if someone has a problem, they need their own bug w/ useful logs, etc Dec 13 19:44:42 timeless_mbp, ssshh!, don't tell them about my real job! ;-) Dec 13 19:44:44 * RST38h decided to try autobuilder submission himself Dec 13 19:44:49 rejected of course Dec 13 19:44:53 but if it's a hardware bug, they probably need to contact Cae Dec 13 19:44:53 timeless_mbp: i hope i didn't. And if i did i'd prefer he told me about that himself. Dec 13 19:44:57 s/ae/are/ Dec 13 19:44:57 timeless_mbp meant: but if it's a hardware bug, they probably need to contact Care Dec 13 19:45:04 PaulFertser: this is a community Dec 13 19:45:10 it's our job to protect our members Dec 13 19:45:11 I think it's all fine. :) Dec 13 19:45:28 i don't want you abused just as i don't want to be abused. Dec 13 19:45:46 timeless_mbp: did you read my comment about a possibly wrong threshold? Are you still sure there's a clear borderline between software and hardware? Dec 13 19:45:58 gpg: Can't check signature: public key not found Dec 13 19:46:03 That is from the autobuilder Dec 13 19:46:09 How do I make this crap work? Dec 13 19:46:44 * andre__ passes a hammer to RST38h Dec 13 19:46:50 No no Dec 13 19:47:00 andre__: timeless_mbp: anyway, have a nice weekend (end) and thanks for your patience. Dec 13 19:47:02 I want to somehow avoid dealing with autobuilder Dec 13 19:47:13 PaulFertser, np. you too :) Dec 13 19:47:22 what's this headphone issue? Dec 13 19:47:33 ShadowJK: bug 6360 Dec 13 19:47:35 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6360 Headset problems Dec 13 19:47:41 Head does not fit into the phone? Dec 13 19:47:45 oh, headset not headphone? Dec 13 19:48:06 ShadowJK: well, stereo headset is a special case of headphones after all. Dec 13 19:48:54 ShadowJK: i think you might want to read the ticket in question to see for yourself if it worth investigating or not. Apparently nokia decided it doesn't. Dec 13 19:49:06 headset includes the nonstandard extension and you have to start finding out whether user is using some random headset or a compatible one Dec 13 19:49:16 ShadowJK: i did Dec 13 19:49:23 ShadowJK: it's all in the ticket Dec 13 19:49:30 ShadowJK: he had problems with n900 headset. Dec 13 19:49:35 Original Dec 13 19:49:59 my headset suddly broke after second use Dec 13 19:50:49 BTW, n900 kernel does support some weird proprietary nokia protocol (i assume it's used for additional control buttons) but i've no idea if it works or implemented on higher levels. Funny thing, it seems nobody here knows. Dec 13 19:50:58 HATE HATE HATE Dec 13 19:51:04 Hate autobuilder Dec 13 19:51:20 * RST38h will not open source anything just to avoid dealing with the autobuilder Dec 13 19:51:33 * PaulFertser quit hating after realised it doesn't harm his enemies, only himself. Dec 13 19:51:52 ah whaddayaknow.. Dec 13 19:52:20 PaulFertser, I'm not sure it's sending anything. With my adapter which has the extra controls, when connected to E75, I hear blips and clicks when I press the buttons. On N810 I hear the same blips and clicks (but N810 does nothing about it), on N900 I don't hear them Dec 13 19:52:50 ShadowJK: you might be interested in the sysfs nodes contents mentioned in the ticket. Dec 13 19:53:07 ShadowJK: but the kernel has some non-trivial detection code for that stuff for sure. Dec 13 20:00:50 ok, where in autobuilder do i stick gpg public key??? Dec 13 20:01:15 ok Dec 13 20:01:25 back where I started (almost) with 63MB free on / Dec 13 20:02:18 is it possible to but videos / animated gifs/flash on the backhround? Dec 13 20:02:22 -h Dec 13 20:02:36 RST38h: google does score you a workaround Dec 13 20:02:52 url? Dec 13 20:02:57 in the form of "If the problem is causing builds for you to fail when uploading to the autobuilder a workaround is to add the -uc and -us switches when building your source" Dec 13 20:03:15 rst38h: could you please recompile maemopad+ for me? i have not install sdk yet Dec 13 20:03:19 hmmm Dec 13 20:03:36 Arkenoi: sorry, first things first Dec 13 20:03:42 * RST38h is kinda low on free time Dec 13 20:04:35 The X-Factor is truely shite Dec 13 20:04:49 sorry, random outburst there Dec 13 20:05:06 * RST38h googles Dec 13 20:05:28 Oh. A reality show. Screw it. Dec 13 20:05:36 exactly Dec 13 20:05:51 my wife is watching and wondering why I'm off to sit on the computer :D Dec 13 20:06:11 But at least brits look like human beings Dec 13 20:06:25 RST38h: apparently the other options is to get re-invited, but that's a thread from april Dec 13 20:06:26 ah I forgot it's also on in the US Dec 13 20:07:06 lardman <--- got the reference point perfectly Dec 13 20:07:26 lol Dec 13 20:07:55 and then the december thread says "We don't make use of the GPG key" so go figure Dec 13 20:08:00 sp3000: Well, rebuilt with -uc -us, uploaded with dput, keeping fingers crossed Dec 13 20:08:11 * RST38h expected something of this kind to happen Dec 13 20:09:50 Anyone good at ui building that is bored and wants to build some cool stuff for maemo 5 (got project ideas but my ui skills suck) Dec 13 20:10:48 * lardman googles for ui Dec 13 20:11:05 ah, strange thing that users use ;) Dec 13 20:11:22 naxxatoe: Tried TMO? Dec 13 20:11:29 * javispedro 's been trying to get HildonAnimationActor working for a few hours now and all I have is a yellow 100x100 square at x=20, y=20. Dec 13 20:11:34 there was a chap on there offering ui design iirc Dec 13 20:11:42 RST38h: http://wiki.maemo.org/Uploading_to_Extras#Preparing_a_source_package doesn't specify those ...I think dpkg-buildpackage only warns if it can't sign so I guess nobody expected someone to actually sign things :P Dec 13 20:11:45 lardman: yup, and i will keep trying Dec 13 20:11:48 or do you want the building rather than designing? Dec 13 20:12:07 design, pen on paper is no problem, the rest is just really bad Dec 13 20:12:21 what kind of ideas? Dec 13 20:12:30 Python is pretty easy to get going with Dec 13 20:12:32 background magic on my side is also strong, but just the graphic is like really bad -.- Dec 13 20:12:35 yeah i know Dec 13 20:12:45 * RST38h signs things since chinook Dec 13 20:12:47 i can write python, but i just cant cope with graphics Dec 13 20:12:53 ah ok Dec 13 20:13:01 likewise I can't do UIs Dec 13 20:14:14 hi folks. is there any document on tuning compiler options and stuff like that for applications to be built for maemo5? Dec 13 20:14:27 t Dec 13 20:14:43 thresh: no idea, what kind of software are you talking about? Dec 13 20:15:01 google gcc flags fremantle Dec 13 20:15:15 uhm, codec libraries mostly, vlc Dec 13 20:15:22 nice Dec 13 20:15:30 vlc is c code right? Dec 13 20:15:45 mostly, yes Dec 13 20:15:49 some c++ too Dec 13 20:16:09 is there some url for the autobuilder current status? Dec 13 20:16:15 did you adapt the ui to go with the main maemo user interface? Dec 13 20:16:20 no, there is no ui yet Dec 13 20:16:32 yet == as if someone writes it... Dec 13 20:16:36 so its command line only? Dec 13 20:17:05 so why, why it is not doing texturefrompixmap on my actor Dec 13 20:17:14 does not like you? Dec 13 20:17:17 well i think you can try launching the usual qt4 gui, but it wouldnt be any good on n900 screen Dec 13 20:17:18 needs a human sacrifice? Dec 13 20:17:27 the moon is in the wrong phase? Dec 13 20:17:50 RST38h: s/human/goat Dec 13 20:17:53 at least first of all Dec 13 20:18:07 maybe it doesn't like xshm, but that can't be since it's doing the same as it does for normal windows Dec 13 20:18:11 ah.. Dec 13 20:18:15 calling it a day Dec 13 20:18:24 well he may start with a hamster or a labrat, but there is always a possibility that the Tentacled One will get disappointed... Dec 13 20:18:32 true Dec 13 20:18:44 and smite him for not being generous enough with the first sacrifice? Dec 13 20:18:49 my sbox is good Dec 13 20:19:03 why smite? just suck his brains out, for dinner. Dec 13 20:19:18 I've patched nearly every process in the compositing pipeline to add some mark, like lines, crosses or just red rectangles :) Dec 13 20:19:24 * lardman always wondered about a link between smite and smitten Dec 13 20:19:41 I'm sorry, I've missed, who was talking to me recently? :) Dec 13 20:19:51 hate that miranda limit Dec 13 20:20:11 javispedro what do you mean? why do that? Dec 13 20:20:24 mist Dec 13 20:20:47 So, how do I check the autobuilder status??? Dec 13 20:21:03 go to the output dir? Dec 13 20:21:10 url? Dec 13 20:21:23 https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/ Dec 13 20:21:29 * RST38h has not received any acknowledgement that the package was accepted Dec 13 20:21:29 and then chose your package Dec 13 20:21:31 thanks Dec 13 20:21:40 don't thank me yet ;) Dec 13 20:21:52 did you upload it then? Any major problems? Dec 13 20:21:58 Now I see why I did not want to do it? Dec 13 20:22:06 lol Dec 13 20:22:25 well, it did not accept my signed uploads, Dec 13 20:22:33 RST38h: you have to operate in "fire and forget" mode with the autobuilder Dec 13 20:22:33 but -uc -us seems to have fixed it Dec 13 20:22:41 you don't need to sign Dec 13 20:22:47 just -sa -S Dec 13 20:23:03 lardman: so I do: I upload to non-free and forget about autobuilder Dec 13 20:23:34 ah well Dec 13 20:23:39 decided to be a good open sourced community member for one night, and guess what I get? Dec 13 20:23:43 Right. PAIN. Dec 13 20:23:52 lol Dec 13 20:24:43 RST38h: welcome to life Dec 13 20:24:57 yea, hello there Dec 13 20:25:10 RST38h: Yes, the autobuilder is nothing but pain. Dec 13 20:25:15 Ok, it's doing Something: https://garage.maemo.org/builder/fremantle/fbreader_0.10.7-4/ Dec 13 20:25:19 I had ignored it until last week. Dec 13 20:25:25 And I still wish I had. Dec 13 20:25:40 Expect at least half an hour per arch. Dec 13 20:25:49 def: Well, I can upload stuff in binary to non-free but then someone still has to push it through autobuilder Dec 13 20:25:59 god, i wish somebody would help me on that ui shit with my projects Dec 13 20:26:01 And then expect several more hours before it bothers to sync it into extras-devel. Dec 13 20:26:03 yeah, is pretty slow, which makes building multi-package apps hard Dec 13 20:26:09 just looking up how to get started in qt makes me sick Dec 13 20:26:10 Except for right now, when syncing is completely broken. Dec 13 20:26:19 needs some sort of queue system otherwise it takes >1 day to upload everything Dec 13 20:26:29 * RST38h sighs Dec 13 20:26:32 multi-package dep that is Dec 13 20:26:47 Just allow binary uploads like before and forget about it =( Dec 13 20:27:01 well no, source is pretty useful actually Dec 13 20:27:04 Yes, you do not get the source in the repo, but so what Dec 13 20:27:21 You can still upload the source, as an option Dec 13 20:27:25 source + it actually building is good Dec 13 20:27:50 not fair for you RST38h as it's not your app, but for people writing their own code, it really ought to build Dec 13 20:27:58 morgen Dec 13 20:28:05 hrw: hoi Dec 13 20:28:14 hrw: gleichfall Dec 13 20:28:18 new bugs to vote for: 6931 and 6932 Dec 13 20:28:29 bug 6931 Dec 13 20:28:29 what kind of bugs? Dec 13 20:28:30 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6931 After installation of software last icon in "More..." view has default icon instead of own one Dec 13 20:28:37 bug 6932 Dec 13 20:28:38 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6932 "More..." view is not sorted at all Dec 13 20:29:02 hi hrw Dec 13 20:29:11 will report few more in next minutes Dec 13 20:29:25 hrw: To me it looks like it is sorted. Last installed or updated application is at the end ... Dec 13 20:29:52 range: I do not remember when installed Mirror or Mauku or other ones Dec 13 20:29:58 range: I expect them to be SORTED Dec 13 20:30:05 in user compatible way Dec 13 20:30:08 hrw: We need a memory trainer application then :) Dec 13 20:30:23 I want folders, tags or any other way to organize it Dec 13 20:30:28 hrw: Just saying it is sorted, but not like you'd wanted to (me neither) Dec 13 20:30:36 I want priorities, I want to be able to add apps to first screen Dec 13 20:30:50 I want to get rid of crap called 'Ovi store' and have 'Mauku' there Dec 13 20:30:54 etc etc etc etc etc etc Dec 13 20:30:56 etc etc etc etc etc etc etc Dec 13 20:31:20 and I need to report them before andre__ will move them to brainstorm ;D Dec 13 20:32:11 hrw, I'm getting a bit tired of getting bashed by you, but if it makes you happy ;-) Dec 13 20:32:12 lardman: I have no problem making the source available (as it is not my app) :) Dec 13 20:32:31 dealing with this contraption they set up is a bit of a problem though Dec 13 20:32:36 * sejo digs osm2GO Dec 13 20:32:57 hrw: mauku makes kittens cry Dec 13 20:33:11 what's wrong with mauku? Dec 13 20:33:15 Myrtti: Yeah, but so does witter. Dec 13 20:33:21 are these the scream of pain or pleasure though? Dec 13 20:33:33 range: from what I've heard, less so Dec 13 20:33:35 wazd: BTW, if you were looking for ugly apps, Mauku and Witter Dec 13 20:33:52 wazd: Except I am not sure you would want to beautify a TWITTER client Dec 13 20:33:52 hrw: I think the stance on apps being unorganized is.... Dec 13 20:33:52 Myrtti: From what I showed my cats ... Dec 13 20:33:57 use the desktop shortcuts Dec 13 20:34:04 avoid the app list Dec 13 20:34:04 nothing beats dabr.co.uk. Dec 13 20:34:06 srsly Dec 13 20:34:11 go1dfish: Then give me more desktops :) Dec 13 20:34:20 lame, but nobody seems interested in fixing it Dec 13 20:34:24 range: hehe Dec 13 20:34:29 andre__: sorry, will end Dec 13 20:35:00 does flashblock work in browser Dec 13 20:35:05 Myrtti: it was example Dec 13 20:35:25 hrw: thanks. sorry, my sense of humor somehow has been already better than in the current times, also a bit my fault... :-) Dec 13 20:36:49 bug 6933 Dec 13 20:36:51 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6933 Alarm times are shown wrong Dec 13 20:37:15 b-man17: if someone wants to send me one Dec 13 20:37:55 https://bugs.maemo.org/attachment.cgi?id=1754 - whoo will tell me how much time before event the alarm is set? (sshot says "3h before") Dec 13 20:38:25 * Arkenoi blogs with web browser, cannot imagine why one might want a blogging application Dec 13 20:38:38 Arkenoi: agreed Dec 13 20:41:40 Arkenoi: internets are slow Dec 13 20:42:01 here in faraway lands Dec 13 20:42:12 they are ok here Dec 13 20:42:12 thresh, save a web page then Dec 13 20:42:42 RST38h: you'd be surprised but I already did it partialy :) Dec 13 20:43:43 RST38h: http://i026.radikal.ru/0912/36/089658a648d5.png Dec 13 20:43:54 wow Dec 13 20:44:22 well, looks better than the current version (judging from screenshots) Dec 13 20:44:56 RST38h: but joshua.maverick is working on some custom UI so I don't wat to disturb Dec 13 20:45:05 RST38h: http://mav-media.com/jrichards/maemo/witter/witter004.jpg Dec 13 20:45:15 `(°∞°)' Dec 13 20:45:47 http://store.ovi.com/content/730162B73408D19EE040050A853249BD?CID=ovistore-fw-otc-na-acq-na-twitter-g0-na-1 <- i want this for n900 :\ Dec 13 20:46:14 * timeless_mbp sighs Dec 13 20:46:20 :D Dec 13 20:46:23 it'd be really nice if my n900 would recognize when a network disappeared Dec 13 20:46:37 how so? Dec 13 20:46:48 timeless_mbp: agreed Dec 13 20:46:48 it's annoying Dec 13 20:46:55 well, it doesn't seem to notice when i walk away from a network Dec 13 20:47:02 but i'm using a non sales software rev Dec 13 20:47:05 a wifi place? Dec 13 20:47:07 if you guys have this problem, you should file a bug Dec 13 20:47:11 my other annoyance there is that IM doesn't always reconnect when it does finally go away Dec 13 20:47:21 MSN in particular has issues with that Dec 13 20:47:21 Ceron^: e.g. my apt has a network named 'Home' Dec 13 20:47:32 my works fine :P Dec 13 20:47:32 and i walk outside, my n900 is still trying to use 'Home' Dec 13 20:47:32 * range hates custom UIs. Always reminds me of windows. Dec 13 20:47:32 yeah, I plan to file a bug, I just need to get the time to reproduce it properly Dec 13 20:47:37 it changed to 3g Dec 13 20:47:40 i'll switch it to cellular Dec 13 20:47:40 when walking away from home Dec 13 20:47:40 (I probably will watch it tomorrow) Dec 13 20:47:44 (manually) Dec 13 20:47:44 it switches back when im at home Dec 13 20:47:45 automtically Dec 13 20:47:54 i then walk around, and it picks up a network 'Center' Dec 13 20:47:54 Ceron^: it does, it just doesn't *always*, for me.. and sometimes it takes a rather long time Dec 13 20:48:01 when i walk home, it's still using 'Center' Dec 13 20:48:01 RST38h: and what's wrong with Mauku?) Dec 13 20:48:04 for me it works fine Dec 13 20:48:07 at work and at home Dec 13 20:48:12 even though 'Center' isn't available, and it should switch to 'Home' Dec 13 20:48:20 2 wlan spots (home+work) and 3g Dec 13 20:48:33 wazd: how many bugs in Mauku do you want? Dec 13 20:48:35 it just takes some time to change Dec 13 20:48:36 i have about 5 Dec 13 20:48:45 Ceron^: i gave it an entire meal Dec 13 20:48:49 surely that's suffcient? Dec 13 20:48:52 yeh Dec 13 20:48:52 wazd: no idea, have not used it =) Dec 13 20:48:56 my takes about 2-3 min Dec 13 20:48:57 s/suffcient/sufficient/ Dec 13 20:48:58 timeless_mbp meant: surely that's sufficient? Dec 13 20:49:02 e.g. I work in a 3 story building, at the top floor, we have a wifi network there on the top floor.. signal doesn't extend down at all.. and n900 takes until I get all the way to the street and 1-1.5 minutes walking past that before it realises that the network is gone Dec 13 20:49:07 wazd: But Myrtti has and she isn't happy about it Dec 13 20:49:12 often Dec 13 20:49:19 RST38h: mmm Dec 13 20:49:31 wazd: seriously, i've got a bug list if you have a receptacle Dec 13 20:49:39 and i *don't* use it Dec 13 20:49:43 this was just the basics Dec 13 20:49:51 the control panel item is system modal Dec 13 20:49:58 (it goes downhill from there) Dec 13 20:50:10 timeless_mbp: what exactly do you do at Nokia anyhow? Dec 13 20:50:19 timeless_mbp: UI only :) Dec 13 20:50:22 luke-jr: i work on the browser :) Dec 13 20:50:28 wazd: yeah, i only have ui bugs Dec 13 20:50:31 i haven't used the thing :) Dec 13 20:51:06 timeless_mbp: oh, I thought mauku is kinda well designed since it's Fremantle Star and stuff Dec 13 20:51:16 wazd: want pictures? Dec 13 20:51:19 timeless_mbp: oh rly Dec 13 20:51:24 just the ui? or engine stuff as well Dec 13 20:51:27 timeless_mbp: sure) Dec 13 20:52:02 timeless_mbp: what do you use as twitter client on the n900 Dec 13 20:52:12 sejo: um, what's twitter? Dec 13 20:52:15 microB has a behavior with regards to wide elements in overflowable areas that I'd like to be able to disable Dec 13 20:52:20 and does it work in a web browser? Dec 13 20:52:58 it seems to set the scrollArea of the document to the widest element in the page, even if the widest element in the page is contained in a fixed width overflow:scroll container Dec 13 20:52:58 timeless_mbp: or status,net client? Dec 13 20:53:08 timeless_mbp: if you use mauku... Dec 13 20:53:16 sejo: did i say i used mauku? Dec 13 20:53:16 s/use/used/ Dec 13 20:53:17 sejo meant: timeless_mbp: if you used mauku... Dec 13 20:53:23 i'm pretty sure i said i didn't use it Dec 13 20:53:31 someone installed it on my n900 Dec 13 20:53:31 timeless_mbp: a whole meal? Dec 13 20:53:34 ach Dec 13 20:53:34 so i have the ui bugs Dec 13 20:54:05 ach k Dec 13 20:54:54 omigosh Dec 13 20:56:48 who knows how fast DDP replaces faulty devices? Dec 13 20:57:10 my n900 has a group of bad pixels ;( Dec 13 20:57:35 RST38h: http://s50.radikal.ru/i128/0912/ce/4f250b0ae0f1.png <- test Dec 13 20:59:16 wazd: http://www.webwizardry.net/~timeless/n900/mauku/ Dec 13 20:59:41 short list of bugs: Dec 13 20:59:43 1. system modal Dec 13 20:59:50 wazd: the leftmost icon should contain an arrow Dec 13 20:59:52 2. access keys on new/edit/etc Dec 13 21:00:09 3. clicking advanced/simple causes the button width to change Dec 13 21:00:13 wazd: the rotate thing is unclear to me from the image Dec 13 21:00:15 hrw: bad how? Dec 13 21:00:23 4. there are 'cancel' buttons (and in the middle of a list!) Dec 13 21:00:36 5. many fields aren't fremantle tall Dec 13 21:00:39 wazd: and I suspect that the gray inside the magnifying glass can be removed with 0 damage to the icon =) Dec 13 21:00:41 RST38h: nono, that's just for visual test Dec 13 21:00:45 oh Dec 13 21:00:48 6. some dialogs have no titles Dec 13 21:01:07 RST38h: how will it look with solid icons Dec 13 21:01:24 wazd: to me, it looks nice Dec 13 21:01:27 7. editing often results in a dialog instead of inline in the panel Dec 13 21:02:17 8. the password field is handled totally wrong (so not maemo) Dec 13 21:03:31 timeless_mbp: can I run it under SDK? Dec 13 21:03:36 wazd: i wouldn't know Dec 13 21:03:42 i didn't install it Dec 13 21:04:25 timeless_mbp: where did you get screenshots?) Dec 13 21:04:34 from my device? Dec 13 21:04:39 what i mean by "i didn't install it" Dec 13 21:04:52 is that "i installed a meta package" and "mauku was an ancillary added PoC" Dec 13 21:05:14 timeless_mbp: ok, nm :D Dec 13 21:05:23 luke-jr: white pixels on black background Dec 13 21:06:07 hrw: stuck pixels are oft fixable Dec 13 21:06:24 hrw: make a video of white/black flashing and play it back fullscreen as fast as possible Dec 13 21:06:30 is oft an english word? Dec 13 21:06:37 oft quoted? Dec 13 21:06:39 I think so? Dec 13 21:06:39 yes wow Dec 13 21:06:48 http://www.google.com/dictionary?aq=f&langpair=en|en&hl=en&q=oft Dec 13 21:06:52 it is Dec 13 21:07:06 it isn't what i'd call a common word Dec 13 21:07:31 luke-jr: anyway contacted ddp Dec 13 21:07:34 * hrw -> sleep Dec 13 21:07:35 bye Dec 13 21:15:08 http://www.jscreenfix.com/video.php Dec 13 21:15:11 too late Dec 13 21:15:46 2/104 Dec 13 21:18:39 RST38h: @P_Hud dont know such model. Know N950 mid next year without keyboard... i never mention 3-4 devices on maemo this year :) Dec 13 21:18:46 RST38h: Murtazin says Dec 13 21:19:05 RST38h: can you remember what he was saying to us at mobilecamp? ;) Dec 13 21:19:49 moooooooooooo Dec 13 21:20:07 woglinde: heya Dec 13 21:20:17 wazd: any objections to my complaints? :) Dec 13 21:21:15 timeless_mbp: well, I need to see it for myself first :) Dec 13 21:21:19 fwiw, this is 2.0b4 Dec 13 21:21:27 wazd: you don't trust my install? Dec 13 21:21:33 the pictures are genuine ;) Dec 13 21:22:17 timeless_mbp: I need to understand what does what :) Dec 13 21:22:18 hm time to put qtnx into fremantle extras-testing Dec 13 21:22:22 oh, in case people are curious, the English text sucks too :) Dec 13 21:22:41 oh Dec 13 21:22:44 i forgot my favorite dialog Dec 13 21:22:56 timeless_mbp: looks not good for sure Dec 13 21:23:05 wazd: he was saying "16 devices", also said it later on twitter Dec 13 21:23:25 wazd: The guy is boolshitting like breathing Dec 13 21:23:26 RST38h: he's just a pathetic liar :) Dec 13 21:23:30 why would someone actually believe in what Muldar says Dec 13 21:23:47 wazd: Ok, I reused a few Hildon bw icons Dec 13 21:23:54 wazd: Gonna see what it look like Dec 13 21:24:19 timeless_mbp: can you shoot with original theme please? Your currrent is kinda disturbing a bit Dec 13 21:24:26 wazd: who? Dec 13 21:24:50 wazd: which theme do you want? Dec 13 21:24:57 digital nature or nseries? Dec 13 21:25:02 timeless_mbp: dunno, standard? :D Dec 13 21:25:13 there are two themes, 'orange' and 'blue' Dec 13 21:25:15 timeless_mbp: dlueish will be fine Dec 13 21:25:20 blueish* Dec 13 21:25:26 timeless_mbp: thanks Dec 13 21:25:45 hi Dec 13 21:25:48 go1dfish: Russian infamous blogger/shittalker - Eldar Murtazin Dec 13 21:25:51 n810 theme for n900 anyone? Dec 13 21:25:51 selecting theme ... nseries Dec 13 21:26:09 RST38h: hehe Dec 13 21:26:20 RST38h: I was thinking to remake Titan someday :) Dec 13 21:27:26 Yo Dec 13 21:27:46 has anybody tried to repartition the n900? Dec 13 21:27:54 in what way? Dec 13 21:28:02 I have here a HTC HD2 (aka Leo) and a N900...one of them I have to sell...which one should I give away? Dec 13 21:28:09 using aufs2 Dec 13 21:28:10 The one you use least Dec 13 21:28:22 i just hate the /opt way Dec 13 21:28:47 admiral0: I don't think the /opt solution can be avoided (for the time being) Dec 13 21:28:54 Sir_Lancelot depends Dec 13 21:28:57 yes it can ;) Dec 13 21:29:05 on what? Dec 13 21:29:09 I love them both Dec 13 21:29:11 it is called multi layered file syste Dec 13 21:29:13 m Dec 13 21:29:15 Sir_Lancelot lol than dice Dec 13 21:29:16 and both have their up and downs Dec 13 21:29:30 admiral0: well you can't put /usr on the eMMC Dec 13 21:29:38 what kind of support can I expect for N900 Dec 13 21:29:48 it's kinda limited in what concerns apps for it Dec 13 21:29:49 HD2 <-winmo? Dec 13 21:29:52 Sir_Lancelot: you should sell both and buy an iPhone Dec 13 21:29:57 AakashPatel: yes Dec 13 21:30:02 Oh that snapdragon one Dec 13 21:30:03 rst *g* Dec 13 21:30:04 why? Dec 13 21:30:07 Sir_Lancelot, is there a possibiliy you can be involved in the htc's improvement? Dec 13 21:30:08 For the unique end to end user experience Dec 13 21:30:20 updates get messy i know Dec 13 21:30:20 nooooo Dec 13 21:30:20 Is tehre a way to completely reset the phone to factory defualts? Dec 13 21:30:24 lcuk: Once he learns to speak mandarin... Dec 13 21:30:39 lcuk: I'm portuguese! Loollll Dec 13 21:30:43 admiral0: according to many in here and talk, the emmc is brought online too late Dec 13 21:30:52 AakashPatel: reflash Dec 13 21:31:03 That erases the user data also? Dec 13 21:31:11 ok, sleep Dec 13 21:31:12 not if you leave the emmc alone Dec 13 21:31:22 my /home was intact Dec 13 21:31:32 microlith: I imagine you could work around that with pivot_root Dec 13 21:31:36 hmm can you reflash teh emmc? Dec 13 21:31:37 my doubt is: when I go to maemo.org, i see only 80 apps for n900 while for WM there are by hundreds Dec 13 21:31:46 AakashPatel: yes, you can return it to the previous state Dec 13 21:31:47 wazd: the stuff in the -23* series is mostly w/ nseries Dec 13 21:31:48 microlith, system can boot without emmc and then remount Dec 13 21:31:51 what kind of support/development can I expect for the n900? Dec 13 21:31:57 note that /sometimes/ it has access keys, and sometimes it doesn't Dec 13 21:32:03 * timeless_mbp doesn't understand the whys Dec 13 21:32:04 ... and incidentally, my system is more stable (no crashes since) Dec 13 21:32:19 Sir_Lancelot: my advice.... Dec 13 21:32:24 if you run linux as a desktop and like it Dec 13 21:32:27 keep the n900 Dec 13 21:32:32 Sir_Lancelot, should i make an app generating app? Dec 13 21:32:33 if you don't, keep the WinMo Dec 13 21:32:35 Sir_Lancelot: n900 has been a platform people can develop apps for for perhaps a month Dec 13 21:32:36 something you can type a name into and get a working app out of Dec 13 21:32:39 i know sh*t about linux... :( Dec 13 21:32:47 lcuk: you could win the ioccc Dec 13 21:32:52 Sir_Lancelot: and you bought an n900? o.O lol Dec 13 21:32:54 and wait for maemo6 Dec 13 21:33:15 microlith, mmm? Dec 13 21:33:37 why should I need how to make apps for Linux to have a n900? Dec 13 21:33:49 timeless_mbp: great, thanks Dec 13 21:33:51 lcuk: the obfuscaed c contest, they love software that generates software that... Dec 13 21:34:07 Sir_Lancelot: you don't necessarily, but that's where the primary power in the device is right now, is it's Linux roots Dec 13 21:34:15 search recursion on google Dec 13 21:34:23 you'll understandù Dec 13 21:34:29 it will take quite some time till there are as many polished apps as their are for a platform as old as winmo Dec 13 21:34:38 but there's people developing apps riht now for the devoce? Dec 13 21:34:49 heh microlith i enjoy playing with parsers and compilers Dec 13 21:34:49 and lvoe building new things Dec 13 21:34:49 ;) Dec 13 21:34:53 obvious Dec 13 21:35:02 certainly, but mostly it's linux geeks porting existing apps, and making their own in a few cases Dec 13 21:35:07 hell yeah there is Dec 13 21:35:09 there isn't much in the way of commercial development yet Dec 13 21:35:14 due to the lack of any storefront for the device Dec 13 21:35:23 n900 ftw Dec 13 21:35:25 Oh Dec 13 21:35:31 once ovi works for the n900 I imagine development should pick up Dec 13 21:35:35 So Do i flash this also Dec 13 21:35:35 eMMC content 1.2009.41-1 Dec 13 21:35:53 AakashPatel: you can if you want Dec 13 21:35:53 any sights on that go1dfish? Dec 13 21:36:00 AakashPatel: keep in mind, that destroys any data you have Dec 13 21:36:02 there may already be commercial apps developing/developed that just haven't been released yet due to the lack of any channel Dec 13 21:36:03 Yeah Dec 13 21:36:05 i once posted in slashdot that im gonna write an app store store Dec 13 21:36:05 that too Dec 13 21:36:09 so backup, and backup your backup/data .. Dec 13 21:36:10 i dont think they believed me Dec 13 21:36:24 Sir_Lancelot: I don't think nokia has said exactly Dec 13 21:36:32 * lcuk shrugs and gets back to code Dec 13 21:36:32 gnite folks Dec 13 21:36:32 \o Dec 13 21:36:40 can I ask when the next firmware update is to be released? :) Dec 13 21:36:52 Eightace: some people live in a free country Dec 13 21:36:54 do you? Dec 13 21:36:54 nite lcuk Dec 13 21:37:02 timeless_mbp: i was wanting to completely reset the device :) Dec 13 21:37:04 you can also ask for pie in the sky, but that doesn't mean you'll get it Dec 13 21:37:34 duahhgh Dec 13 21:37:35 oops Dec 13 21:37:52 AakashPatel: for that, then yes, you do want to reflash the emmc Dec 13 21:38:22 and this also OS 2009 version 1.2009.42-11 right? Dec 13 21:38:34 that's the generally accepted sales version Dec 13 21:38:54 (thats the OS version on their site Dec 13 21:41:25 Hmm Dec 13 21:41:36 the n900 has the maps pre-loaded? Dec 13 21:42:52 openstreetmap is impressive in my area Dec 13 21:42:53 Is it possible to disable the boot video + nokia hands and all that and have a text boot? Dec 13 21:43:03 Oh it is pre-loaded Dec 13 21:43:06 thats interesting Dec 13 21:43:16 oh wait Dec 13 21:43:17 nvm Dec 13 21:43:22 stupid internet reconnected Dec 13 21:43:26 would be nice to play maemo vid instead Dec 13 21:43:47 ah nv, Dec 13 21:43:48 m Dec 13 21:44:19 Shapeshifter: to remove the hand thing, edit /etc/hildon-welcome.d/default.conf Dec 13 21:44:30 you can even just blow out the package with the video if you want Dec 13 21:44:34 the hand thing is sweet :P Dec 13 21:44:35 microlith, i've got the solution Dec 13 21:44:42 2 scripts Dec 13 21:44:57 1 mounts aufs, the other unmounts it Dec 13 21:45:07 Shapeshifter: but that won't give you a text boot, but it will boot up faster without that video Dec 13 21:45:15 jebba: thanks Dec 13 21:45:16 ah and third to switch which one is writable Dec 13 21:45:26 okay yeah maps are preloaded Dec 13 21:45:37 when eMMC is ready you mount it Dec 13 21:45:49 and install only external big debs on it Dec 13 21:45:56 OpenArena etc etc Dec 13 21:46:22 jebba, how would it need to be modified? the directory name suggsets removing default.conf? Dec 13 21:47:03 Hello. Is the easy-deb-chroot package in extras-testing or extras-devel? Dec 13 21:47:16 o.O Dec 13 21:47:26 flux: #filename=Hands-v32-h264.avi will do it Dec 13 21:47:29 Wow: I hope someone saw my question despite all that. :p Dec 13 21:47:35 jebba, thanks Dec 13 21:50:20 :O Dec 13 21:50:44 :o Dec 13 21:51:19 is there any timelimit for boot video? Dec 13 21:51:33 or can it be as long as you want? Dec 13 21:51:44 you don't want to make an hour long boot video Dec 13 21:51:55 hah Dec 13 21:51:56 afaiu, the device will wait for your video to finish Dec 13 21:52:00 wanna watch matrix revolutions before boot XD? Dec 13 21:52:01 2 hours would be excesive don't do it Dec 13 21:52:02 timeless_mbp: would be a cool boot Dec 13 21:52:05 ofcourse i do, longer the better "sorry boss cant accept calls.. need to boot phone first" Dec 13 21:52:13 heh Dec 13 21:52:21 timeless_mbp: but yeh ofcourse not :) Dec 13 21:53:01 http://timeless.justdave.net/maemo/maemo-splash-0.1/ Dec 13 21:53:08 has my boot package Dec 13 21:53:15 it's a bit untested Dec 13 21:53:28 window 1 Dec 13 21:53:45 * sejo aads a slash for solarion Dec 13 21:53:51 s/aads/adds/ Dec 13 21:54:16 It's like a thousand voices cried out then were silenced Dec 13 21:54:22 thanks timeless_mbp Dec 13 21:58:34 hope mauku will allow to tweet/dent pics soon Dec 13 22:01:46 i'd settle for its ui not sucking :) Dec 13 22:01:54 of course, i don't intend to use it Dec 13 22:07:43 whaddap Dec 13 22:12:00 garage still down? Dec 13 22:13:04 !lart patent-lawyers Dec 13 22:14:43 Arkenoi: NAFAIK Dec 13 22:15:18 Arkenoi seems up Dec 13 22:15:30 but slow Dec 13 22:17:37 Arkenoi, are you developing something already?) Dec 13 22:18:53 not yet, but i think i will Dec 13 22:19:01 anyone know how to fix that? aclocal: macro `gl_FUNC_ARGZ' required but not defined Dec 13 22:19:03 trying to compile liboil Dec 13 22:19:10 Arkenoi, cool) Dec 13 22:19:27 Arkenoi, something useful?) Dec 13 22:19:53 thresh install GLES libs Dec 13 22:21:33 woglinde: i have libgles1-sgx-img-dev libgles2-sgx-img-dev and opengles-sgx-img-common-dev installed. Dec 13 22:21:44 anyone tested any of the n800 pentesting apps on the "900? Dec 13 22:23:13 hmm, in "sbox-MaemoKernel" chroot, the packages are foo as set up, there's no libncurses-dev, and you can't `fakeroot apt-get -f install`. It bombs with "dpkg: requested operation requires superuser privilege" even though run as fakeroot. Hmm. Dec 13 22:26:06 Arkenoi, well, if you'll need any help with UI - gimme a call :) Dec 13 22:26:29 wazd_n800: we need help with UI ;-) Dec 13 22:26:50 wazd: Ok, I tested 48x48 icons Dec 13 22:26:53 thresh, mm? Dec 13 22:27:05 wazd_n800: we as in 'vlc media player' Dec 13 22:27:10 wazd: they barely fit, with search-next/search-prev 32x32 Dec 13 22:27:23 thresh, hello there) Dec 13 22:27:26 wazd: fortunately, that is the only resolution I could find these icons inHildon, so all is good :) Dec 13 22:27:41 * SpeedEvil wonders if thresh is keen. Dec 13 22:27:54 thresh???? Dec 13 22:28:07 thresh just compile the qt plugin Dec 13 22:28:27 woglinde: imagine how would it look like on n900 screen Dec 13 22:28:30 Arkenoi: Do not, DO NOT install SB1. Install SB2. Dec 13 22:28:31 thresh, well, I'm the right person to ask) Dec 13 22:28:53 thresh I didnt look what you did with your .ui file Dec 13 22:29:01 Arkenoi: Unless you want to partake in a sexual intercourse with NFS Dec 13 22:29:05 design a new one Dec 13 22:29:29 thresh if you dont use .ui file at vlc yet switch to it Dec 13 22:29:52 RST38h, you can fit 10 (8+1wide) icons by removing margins Dec 13 22:30:10 RST38h, dunno if it's possible Dec 13 22:30:26 wazd: not possible Dec 13 22:30:41 wazd: all I am doing is changing a few xml files for icons Dec 13 22:30:59 and even fbreader itself apparently just asks gtk+ to create a toolbar for it Dec 13 22:31:20 RST38h, then remove that stupid rotate button and make proper accelerometer support)) Dec 13 22:32:00 which conditions trigger the famous wifi battery drain bug? i use wifi all the day and then take phone out of home without reboot for sure and never seen fast drain Dec 13 22:32:13 so I guess I should make 32x32 icons Dec 13 22:32:52 wazd: I am kinda too lazy and busy for it Dec 13 22:33:18 wazd: Looking at how hildon icons work, I think you should just make an app icon and maybe the tree/book list icons Dec 13 22:33:28 because the toolbar is currently just fine Dec 13 22:33:39 thresh hm git vlc is on ui, so fire up qt-designer and make one suitable for n900 Dec 13 22:33:42 Arkenoi: problems with power management on your router Dec 13 22:34:29 RST38h, oh, that's cool Dec 13 22:34:29 rst38h, they say it happens while the phone is disconnected from wifi Dec 13 22:34:47 Arkenoi: says who? Dec 13 22:35:32 thrash: what exactly do you want to be helped with? Dec 13 22:35:35 many people both on tmo and fmr Dec 13 22:36:06 intressting that vlc still has a ui for opie in repos Dec 13 22:36:33 woglinde: vlc doesnt use .ui for main window Dec 13 22:36:46 btw they recommend fixing network mode as GSM if you have no 3G coverage; seems that it does not improve battery life at all or the gain is too insignificant Dec 13 22:36:51 thresh why? Dec 13 22:37:05 no idea, i'm not the one who wrote that plugin Dec 13 22:37:53 hi...i need help with my n900? Dec 13 22:38:14 can anyone help me out....i was reffered here by www.maemo.org thread Dec 13 22:38:18 ppriyank, no you don't Dec 13 22:38:33 i don't wat? Dec 13 22:38:48 ppriyank, need help :) Dec 13 22:39:00 oh, lol, i did not mean to put that question mark at the end of it...I DO NEED HELP Dec 13 22:39:05 thresh hm only propblem can be with gl stuff for audio visualaization Dec 13 22:39:10 ppriyank, :) Dec 13 22:39:18 i was going to return my n900 that i bought from nokia usa tomorrow Dec 13 22:39:30 but the qtgl widget should abstract this Dec 13 22:39:57 so i wanted to delete everything from the phone...and i opened x-terminal and typed in rm -R $home/* Dec 13 22:40:21 and now my phone is screwed up, it does not turn on...just shows the NOKIA logo :( Dec 13 22:40:26 slow hand clap Dec 13 22:40:34 heh Dec 13 22:40:57 ppriyank hm reflashing image should work Dec 13 22:40:58 is there a way to turn on logging/core dumps or some other form of information that would be useful for debugging? i'd like to try to debug these random turn offs Dec 13 22:41:02 ppriyank, reflash it? Dec 13 22:41:02 now i read a wiki about flashing it with flasher Dec 13 22:41:10 why? Dec 13 22:41:13 you return it anyway Dec 13 22:41:16 but the command prompt does not recognize my device Dec 13 22:42:02 i'm returning it because i bought it for 620 from nokia, but now i got my pre-order from newegg for 560, so i figured i'll return the nokia one, so i can keep the cheaper newegg one (nokia sales person said i have 14 days to return it) Dec 13 22:42:18 so 2.6.32 does not boot at all :x Dec 13 22:42:26 luke-jr: :( Dec 13 22:42:28 wazd_n800, i'm using windows 7 64-bit Dec 13 22:42:42 luke-jr: does 2.6.28? Dec 13 22:42:49 or whatever the 'stock' version is? Dec 13 22:42:56 any advice would be greatly helpful! Dec 13 22:43:00 SpeedEvil: uh, obviously the stock 2.6.21 works... Dec 13 22:43:05 SpeedEvil: but not Gentoo anymore Dec 13 22:43:09 luke-jr: I mean - if you recompile Dec 13 22:43:18 no clue, don't really care Dec 13 22:43:25 <.< Dec 13 22:43:33 ppriyank: 64 doesn't support flash program Dec 13 22:43:33 luke-jr: To restate - have you ever had a kernel you compiled work I mean Dec 13 22:43:46 SpeedEvil: yes, though not with this cross-compiler now that you mention it Dec 13 22:43:55 ppriyank, sorry, I can only help you in theory, I don't have the device Dec 13 22:44:05 a'ok, now I am asleep for real Dec 13 22:44:17 RST38h, cya Dec 13 22:44:23 mika_i, so if i use my friends' computer...which is an XP...would i recognize my phone? Dec 13 22:44:32 or would i have to download the flash drivers on it? Dec 13 22:44:35 Ah, somebody built Hatari for N900. Cool. Dec 13 22:44:48 ppriyank: what does Flash have to do with it? Dec 13 22:44:50 ppriyank, you can install vm probably Dec 13 22:45:10 ppriyank, not sure if it will work Dec 13 22:45:17 what's "VM?" Dec 13 22:45:25 fail Dec 13 22:45:42 ppriyank, virtual machine Dec 13 22:45:46 luke-jr, i don't understand? i'm trying to flash my phone Dec 13 22:46:12 ppriyank: so what's the problem? Dec 13 22:46:17 so i figured in order for the computer to recognize my phone, it probably needs a flash drivers Dec 13 22:46:21 ppriyank, VMWare, VirtualBox Dec 13 22:46:21 just run the stupid flasher app w/ the right args Dec 13 22:46:34 no, it doesn't need any drivers to flash Dec 13 22:46:35 use this http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_firmware#Windows but as i said flash program doesnt work in 64bit system Dec 13 22:46:44 what do i do with virtual box? (as u can tell i'm not all that good with computers) Dec 13 22:46:49 the flasher doesn't work on windows 7 at all Dec 13 22:46:51 let alone 64bit Dec 13 22:47:02 Mika_i: it does if you download the 64-bit version Dec 13 22:47:05 oh, windows Dec 13 22:47:06 Mika_i, yes that's the wiki i was using Dec 13 22:47:07 who uses Windows? Dec 13 22:47:12 he does, and I do Dec 13 22:47:18 (which is why I know this) Dec 13 22:47:23 lol Dec 13 22:47:40 luke-jr: there is a 64-bit available for flasher? Dec 13 22:47:55 ppriyank: for Linux, yes Dec 13 22:48:02 oh, nvm Dec 13 22:48:23 i've neva used linux before (seems too complicated, and yet I bought this device) Dec 13 22:48:40 less complicated than Windows Dec 13 22:48:50 Windows has got to be the most difficult OS to use Dec 13 22:48:54 i'm lovin it dho, and it was workin perfectly fine, until my smart@$$ decided to rm -R $home/* Dec 13 22:49:08 oh my, not again... Dec 13 22:49:12 ppriyank: lol? Dec 13 22:49:15 if only it had zfs ... Dec 13 22:49:23 ppriyank: why would you do that? Dec 13 22:49:57 * Arkenoi wonders what's wrong with all that n900 users who complain about phone lasts no more than 7-9 hours standby *without* persistent internet connection. Are there just so many broken devices or..? Dec 13 22:50:11 luke-jr, cause it's SOOO easy in llinux :D Dec 13 22:50:15 umm, that "lol" was referring to your question "who uses windows" Dec 13 22:50:20 wazd_n800: yes? Dec 13 22:50:34 ppriyank: nobody in my home uses Windows Dec 13 22:50:42 luke-jr: i did "rm -R $home/*" because i was tryin to erase everything on my n900, in order to return it back to NOKIA US Dec 13 22:50:54 luke-jr, much easier than in windows) Dec 13 22:51:00 ppriyank: well if you're going to return it anyway, why bother? Dec 13 22:51:12 ppriyank: There's a "Clear device" in Settings' app menu; FWIW. Dec 13 22:51:16 cuz i'm afraid they wont take it Dec 13 22:51:45 Jaffa: my phone does not turn on, when i power it on, it shows the NOKIA logo, and goes dark, it does not turn on though! :( Dec 13 22:51:51 my gf does, she is an artist and she needs some software to paint (and she hates mac versions for some reason) Dec 13 22:52:05 luke-jr, windows is so complicated that you can't even ruin your system with a single row)) Dec 13 22:52:20 ppriyank: Reflash, incluing the eMMC image. It should fix the boot issue and also ensure all your data is gone. Dec 13 22:52:21 wazd_n800: sure you can Dec 13 22:52:40 wazd_n800: del /r c:\windows Dec 13 22:52:59 Jaffa, it won't allow you Dec 13 22:53:02 Jaffa: that's what i'm trying to do, but when i run the command prompt, it does not recognize my phone. (i downloaded the firmware, and am using the flasher 3.5) Dec 13 22:53:37 Jaffa, I've already tried in vm6 Dec 13 22:53:38 Jaffa: this is the wiki i was following https://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_firmware Dec 13 22:53:41 vm* Dec 13 22:53:42 wazd_n800: Even as admin? With /f? Dec 13 22:53:53 Jaffa, yep Dec 13 22:54:03 apparently it seems like since i'm using windows 7 64-bit, that might be the problem. Dec 13 22:54:08 Jaffa, files are in use Dec 13 22:54:12 wazd_n800: On some machines removing boot.ini will render the machine unbootable Dec 13 22:54:30 wazd_n800: Ha! A system so inept it can't delete a file which is open. Causes me no end of pain every day Dec 13 22:54:49 (for a non-expert user, anyway) Dec 13 22:54:56 apparently this guy had a same problem, and he even tried with xp with no results so far...i'm reading the thread right now... http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=34983&page=3 Dec 13 22:55:16 ppriyank: Boot an Ubuntu live CD and use the Linux flasher, perhaps? Dec 13 22:55:17 Jaffa, well, at least it can't shoot itself)) Dec 13 22:55:33 wazd_n800: Well, it can - there are files which aren't in use which are necessary for booting Dec 13 22:55:47 Jaffa: I've neva used linux before, so if i do chose to go on that route...i'd have no idea what to do Dec 13 22:56:04 But I'm not going to attack Windows; nor overly defend Linux; on such a pointless argument when I could be asleep ;-) Dec 13 22:56:10 ok, let's stop that snseless flamewar) Dec 13 22:56:32 ppriyank: Most of the instructions are on that wiki page. There are other threads on tmo from the N8x0 days which should help too. Dec 13 22:56:35 Jaffa: yeah, me too) Dec 13 22:56:44 i poured acid in my n900 and now it is corroded Dec 13 22:57:02 i sending it back Dec 13 22:57:12 * Jaffa poured coke over a Psion Series 5 once. Sticky keys. Dec 13 22:57:26 Jaffa, howw dare you! Dec 13 22:57:36 Jaffa: i'm willing to give it a shot, now where exactly do i get the ubuntu live cd? and do i save it on my computer, or do i need a usb drive for it (i don't have one) Dec 13 22:57:54 Jaffa, you're a monster! :D Dec 13 22:58:09 phosphoric acid plus psion Dec 13 22:58:15 ppriyank, burn it Dec 13 22:58:28 ppriyank: you need a CD burner Dec 13 22:58:30 mmm, I loves me a real keyboard Dec 13 22:58:54 ppriyank: alternately, they will ship you a printed CD Dec 13 22:59:02 thanks, will google it and burn it on a dvd (hopefully that'll work because i dont have cd-rws) Dec 13 22:59:08 where is synergy deb Dec 13 22:59:18 ppriyank: http://www.kubuntu.org/getkubuntu Dec 13 22:59:29 burn dao at slow speed Dec 13 22:59:46 I wonder if there will ever be resurrected psion with e--ink display ) Dec 13 22:59:47 request an ubuntu cd at https://shipit.ubuntu.com/ Dec 13 22:59:59 nezb: you're missing the K Dec 13 23:00:23 and, like, 1 year of work time from 2 AA batteries) Dec 13 23:00:25 luke-jr: there are two of them there, kubuntu/ubuntu, does it matter which one i pick? Dec 13 23:00:32 ppriyank: get the K one Dec 13 23:00:39 why Kubuntu? Dec 13 23:00:44 it sucks les Dec 13 23:00:50 if you want a good KDE distro try Mandriva Linux Dec 13 23:00:51 oh noes Dec 13 23:00:59 luke-jr: oh i thought this would be free :( Dec 13 23:01:03 Ubuntu is better as a gnome distro Dec 13 23:01:16 ppriyank, pick anything Dec 13 23:01:17 ppriyank: did you actually read the page? gratis download, buy a CD, or gratis CD Dec 13 23:02:47 is there an rss feed or email feed on new packages? Dec 13 23:04:49 luke-jr: nvn, thankx, downloadin it on my desktop and will put it on a dvd after that. Dec 13 23:05:00 hopefully this'll work Dec 13 23:06:56 I'm unsure if I've found asked this before - I can't seem to find it on the wiki. Is there a nice guide to debian/slackware/ubuntu/whatever in a chroot on the n900 Dec 13 23:07:43 ppriyank: you are aware how to burn ISO files, correct Dec 13 23:07:45 ? Dec 13 23:08:07 luke-jr: yes...i have a free iso burner (to dvd) Dec 13 23:09:52 luke-jr: i guess i do not need to do this...just got off the phone with nokia, and they said if it hasn't been 14 days, i can return it to them :) Dec 13 23:15:31 ppriyank: k Dec 13 23:15:49 my bootmenu is showing "TEST" in large green latters under "Press and hold MENU key for advanced boot menu" Dec 13 23:15:53 just hanging Dec 13 23:15:58 luke-jr: ok i just burnt the kubuntu on a dvd, i'm willing to try it, and flash it Dec 13 23:16:02 do I really need to pull the battery to reboot it to normal? Dec 13 23:16:59 luke-jr: ssh in and reboot Dec 13 23:17:30 SpeedEvil: there's ssh at bootmenu? Dec 13 23:17:35 http://b-man.xceleo.org/images/fremantle/desmume-mario64.png :) Dec 13 23:17:59 luke-jr: oh - opps, please ignore Dec 13 23:18:13 b-man17, is that real? if so, nice work Dec 13 23:18:35 yup - and thanks :) Dec 13 23:18:48 :O Dec 13 23:18:49 b-man17: now get it rotated and scaled <.< Dec 13 23:18:51 how is it coming? Dec 13 23:18:56 * b-man17 is planing to optimize it to use OpenGL ES Dec 13 23:19:10 which emulator is that? Dec 13 23:19:21 s/emulator/emul****/ Dec 13 23:19:21 jaem meant: which emul**** is that? Dec 13 23:19:23 :P Dec 13 23:19:25 desmume Dec 13 23:19:30 ah, haven't heard of it Dec 13 23:19:35 ... Dec 13 23:19:40 luke-jr, kidding Dec 13 23:19:44 it's called sarcasm Dec 13 23:19:44 isn't desmume the *only* Linux DS emu? Dec 13 23:19:46 it's a nintendo ds emulator Dec 13 23:19:50 lol Dec 13 23:20:06 b-man17, is it ported to the DS under Linux? Dec 13 23:20:12 ...... Dec 13 23:20:15 not that that would be in any way useful, but just wonderijng... Dec 13 23:20:42 jaem: it'd be useful for ROMs... Dec 13 23:20:43 what do you mean? xD Dec 13 23:20:52 and multitasking Dec 13 23:20:56 nvm xD Dec 13 23:20:58 b-man17, well, you can run Linux on the DS, no? Dec 13 23:20:59 b-man17: DS in Linux in DS Dec 13 23:21:02 yep Dec 13 23:21:15 can desmume run Linux? Dec 13 23:21:17 <.< Dec 13 23:21:18 jeam: yes, dslinux Dec 13 23:21:21 it's a "just because you can" sort of thing Dec 13 23:21:24 then you can test it Dec 13 23:21:27 >.> Dec 13 23:21:38 desmume on dslinux on desmume Dec 13 23:21:40 i could Dec 13 23:22:00 it's capable of running homebrew stuff Dec 13 23:22:07 which reminds me, I was at a concert, and at one point, everyone broke out their cellphones to start waving in the dark, and I just grinned and pulled out a dumbphone, N810, and N900 from under my coat Dec 13 23:22:08 heh Dec 13 23:22:15 Because I Can Dec 13 23:22:54 jaem pfff Dec 13 23:23:14 javi[tab] : Dec 13 23:24:01 just booted 2.6.30-rc8 cross-compiled Dec 13 23:24:06 so cross-compiler is not at fault at least Dec 13 23:24:36 no good news on pulse audio yet? Dec 13 23:24:42 screw pulse audio Dec 13 23:24:42 see 2:41 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1HldpVYbwI Dec 13 23:24:48 how? :) Dec 13 23:25:12 pupnik, btw what i'm running is 0.9.5, not 0.7.3 ;) Dec 13 23:25:29 b-man17: of what? Dec 13 23:25:40 desmume Dec 13 23:25:50 ah standard pc version? Dec 13 23:26:11 i believe so Dec 13 23:26:13 * pupnik guesses 8 fps Dec 13 23:26:24 mm - 16-20 :)))) Dec 13 23:26:24 close? Dec 13 23:26:28 nice Dec 13 23:26:59 16-20 = -4 Dec 13 23:27:00 it will run faster once i get it to use OpenGLES ;) Dec 13 23:27:01 wtf? Dec 13 23:27:04 how do you get -4 fps? Dec 13 23:27:24 no, 16 to 20 fps Dec 13 23:29:01 anyone tested any of the n800 pentesting apps on the n900? Dec 13 23:29:52 pupnic, btw http://b-man.xceleo.org/images/fremantle/desmume-mario64.png if you haven't seen xD Dec 13 23:30:01 *pupnik Dec 13 23:30:51 ty cool stuff b-man17 Dec 13 23:31:56 do you remember what it gets on n800? Dec 13 23:32:34 random question: does anyone know of any good diagrams/tables comparing FOSS licenses arranged by permissiveness? Dec 13 23:32:46 a friend's looking for one, and I can think of anything off the top of my head Dec 13 23:36:33 pupnik: i'm not too sure, i haven't used it on an n800 Dec 13 23:37:50 looking back i see 3-5 fps for desume back in spring 2008 Dec 13 23:37:53 on n8x0 Dec 13 23:38:24 you are using gp2x source b-man17 ? Dec 13 23:40:06 he pupnik Dec 13 23:40:23 pupnik sorry for qtnx and nx stuff little more work is need Dec 13 23:40:46 maybee I will make it over christmas holidays Dec 13 23:40:51 pupnik: i used the source code straight from the desmume site Dec 13 23:40:55 what is unsatisfactory for you? Dec 13 23:41:10 ah ty b-man17 maybe they improved speed last year? Dec 13 23:41:49 the transition from 0.8 to 0.9 is HUGE Dec 13 23:42:06 even the code has changed Dec 13 23:42:15 c > c++ Dec 13 23:42:48 and a re-written 3d rendering engine, witch could explain speed Dec 13 23:42:49 luke-jr whats the problem with pulse? Dec 13 23:43:08 woglinde, is that you who's working on qtnx? Dec 13 23:43:18 on the N810 as well? Dec 13 23:43:28 jaem jupp Dec 13 23:43:41 was a contrator worked Dec 13 23:43:51 woglinde: ALSA works fine Dec 13 23:43:52 but the contractor wanted it as opensource ;) Dec 13 23:44:06 woglinde, woo Dec 13 23:44:10 woglinde, any idea why the nxssh command called by the GUI (on the N810) truncates the domain? Dec 13 23:44:38 e.g. the connection process hangs because it's trying to connect to, say "foo.bar." instead of "foo.bar.com" Dec 13 23:44:42 jaem hm oh Dec 13 23:44:50 never saw this problem Dec 13 23:44:56 I purged the config and forced a reinstall, and it kept doing it Dec 13 23:45:01 pupnik: i'd have to say 3 to 5x faster ;) Dec 13 23:45:05 do you want me to duplicate it now and check anything for you? Dec 13 23:45:26 jaem its just the plain nxssh from no machine Dec 13 23:45:32 rdesktop is nice for doing class work without going to the CS lab, but my friend and I use NX for our personal machines and servers Dec 13 23:45:45 the contractor needed the proxy-stuff Dec 13 23:45:47 woglinde, yes, but it's the nxssh command line that's wrong, not the nxssh comand itself Dec 13 23:45:49 which normal ssh dont have Dec 13 23:45:50 * timeless_mbp sighs Dec 13 23:45:51 http://computers-and-internet-blog.blogspot.com/2009/12/microb.html Dec 13 23:45:57 can someone figure out what that is? Dec 13 23:46:10 jaem hm okay than maybee a problem with libnxcl Dec 13 23:46:10 qtnx is calling it with truncated command line arguments Dec 13 23:46:17 or qtnx it self Dec 13 23:46:38 woglinde, I meant to take a poke at it, but I wasn't familiar with Qt then Dec 13 23:46:58 jaem thanks for reporting Dec 13 23:47:06 woglinde, anything I can check for you? Dec 13 23:47:09 timeless_mbp: looks liek a review of MicroB Dec 13 23:47:14 I would note that it happens with IP addresses and domains Dec 13 23:47:18 I will dive in it over christmas too Dec 13 23:47:24 thanks! Dec 13 23:47:24 with ip too? Dec 13 23:47:25 luke-jr: with no mention of the n900? Dec 13 23:47:30 yeah, give me a sec Dec 13 23:47:31 what the hell Dec 13 23:48:23 timeless_mbp: correct Dec 13 23:48:28 woglinde, it didn't use to do that, but I had it uninstalled for a while, so I don't know if an update was released that broke it, or if it something else causing it somehow Dec 13 23:48:33 and this makes sense? Dec 13 23:48:33 let me just try it again now Dec 13 23:48:56 jaem hm pupnik didnt report this error Dec 13 23:49:28 timeless_mbp: dunno, send me a N900 and I'll see if it has MicroB Dec 13 23:49:39 woglinde, it's been happening for months now, but I kept forgetting to figure out who the maintainer was Dec 13 23:49:39 take my word for it? Dec 13 23:49:40 What was the quetsion? lol Dec 13 23:49:45 timeless_mbp: ;) Dec 13 23:50:26 timeless_mbp: I seem to recall some N900 reviews saying it had a new browser...? Dec 13 23:50:47 microb2? :) Dec 13 23:50:53 luke-jr, yeah, links :) Dec 13 23:51:04 actually, counting microb versions is hard Dec 13 23:51:07 microb3? :) Dec 13 23:51:16 microb1 being gecko in process Dec 13 23:51:21 microb2 being gecko out of process Dec 13 23:51:31 which version is on Diablo? Dec 13 23:51:33 microb3 being gecko with a new tile based painting api Dec 13 23:51:34 that one sucks terribly Dec 13 23:52:00 by this numbering, that'd be 2 Dec 13 23:52:02 <.< Dec 13 23:52:06 (this isn't an official numbering) Dec 13 23:52:10 speaking of which Dec 13 23:52:18 I let it boot Diablo cuz Gentoo no longer works Dec 13 23:52:26 jaem /usr/share/doc/changelog.Debian.gz next time for maintainer Dec 13 23:52:27 didn't do anything, just let it boot and run Dec 13 23:52:29 for a few days Dec 13 23:52:43 woglinde, yeah, stupidly forgot about that Dec 13 23:52:45 ssh'd in, the -launcher thing was eating 100% CPU constant Dec 13 23:52:53 I'll be back shortly, and I'll test it out again Dec 13 23:55:32 disabling sound gets 52-60 fps, enabling it, 24-44 Dec 13 23:57:35 pupnik lol Dec 13 23:59:27 good nite Dec 14 00:00:42 luke-jr: wait for fennec Dec 14 00:00:45 it is already in beta Dec 14 00:02:03 cu woglinde Dec 14 00:02:42 jaem tomorrow Dec 14 00:03:28 why maemo is based on deb-packages instead of rpm? :( Dec 14 00:06:30 i like rpm less than deb Dec 14 00:07:30 moo__, which version of fennec you use ? b5 isnt optified , im using the optified nightlies (b6) Dec 14 00:08:11 kynky: not yet any version Dec 14 00:08:19 I have found microB sufficient for my needs Dec 14 00:08:39 has anyone got a cifs.ko that works on the n900 Dec 14 00:08:53 need to be able to mount my shares Dec 14 00:09:31 filezilla for windows supports ssh shares (sftp) Dec 14 00:09:46 kynky, rpm just have some nice features, like package signatures, packages verify, rollback and so on Dec 14 00:10:03 kynky you talking to me? Dec 14 00:10:04 kynky: I have used winscp Dec 14 00:10:23 Lanti, yep Dec 14 00:10:25 especially the signatures are nice feature... Dec 14 00:10:40 why? im on about smb shares Dec 14 00:11:03 saltsa_, i use gentoo, nothing is comparable in package management :) Dec 14 00:19:22 kynky, you're right - Arch is better ;) Dec 14 00:20:00 i used to use arch, its a nice binary distro Dec 14 00:20:19 prob best binary distro i used Dec 14 00:22:03 but portage is amazing , far more complex than arch, for instance use flag dependencies and version dependencies Dec 14 00:22:19 than pacman i mean Dec 14 00:22:47 b-man17: can you blit to opengl at native DS resolution and have clutter stretch that to screen? Dec 14 00:34:42 moo__: um, no. I don't use Maemo period :p Dec 14 00:41:19 he's just a troll in this channel. Who knows why he's here all the time if he doesn't even use it, but he blows his life here. Dec 14 00:41:25 pupnik: i think i could Dec 14 00:49:47 kynky, I can appreciate that (from a safe distance :P), but I don't have a good enough primary machine to want to compile most things Dec 14 00:50:06 the friend who got me into Arch described it as "Gentoo with the Gentoo", which suits me quite well Dec 14 00:50:32 I kind of wish I could run Arch on the N900, but that would be far too much work for the few geeks who would use it :P Dec 14 00:51:00 well there ppl trying to get gentoo working on n900 Dec 14 00:51:10 kynky, ha... I heard they did that for the N810, too Dec 14 00:52:14 I suspect one of the issues (aside from the obvious unsuitability of a source-based distro on a phone), is all the proprietary bits that can't be distributed directly (and are only available in DEB format) Dec 14 00:52:14 so arch should be possible, its biggest benefit is its kiss nature, so not much todo for basic install, compared to say other distros Dec 14 00:52:16 hmm Dec 14 00:52:19 yeah Dec 14 00:52:34 can someone try downloading a ~100M file from the browser? Dec 14 00:52:50 It seemed to die shortly after I tried to do that. Dec 14 00:52:57 Claiming 'no memory' Dec 14 00:53:03 jaem, you can use binaries in gentoo :) Dec 14 00:53:09 Currently having netowrk problems Dec 14 00:53:24 well, along the lines of what I was just saying, one of thing nice things about Arch is that the AUR makes builds (usually) painless, and nicely circumvents anti-redistribution clauses by simple automagically repackaging the vendor's files to work in Arch Dec 14 00:53:33 kynky, I've heard that, but is it done much? Dec 14 00:53:43 and is it through Portage, or something else? Dec 14 00:54:24 sigh... HAM locked up when dismissing a application-modal dialog Dec 14 00:54:26 jaem, for stuff without sources or huge packages , or for binhosts etc, sabayon is basically a custom version of gentoo and that a binary distro Dec 14 00:54:38 yeah its through portage Dec 14 00:54:41 which means that I can't exit it from within the app, and because of the dialog, I can't close it from the switcher Dec 14 00:54:48 have to do it manually Dec 14 00:55:06 aur is nice and simple Dec 14 00:55:19 kynky, ah, yes - I tried Sabayon quite a while back, but I was then new to Linux, and I don't think Sabayan was terribly stable at that point Dec 14 00:56:05 kynky, yes, and since Arch's package format follows KISS as well (at some expense, yes, but I find DEB/RPM to be horribly pedantic), it's trivial enough to write and submit PKGBUILDs that I always do Dec 14 00:56:24 jaem, completely agree Dec 14 00:56:27 so once one person builds an app, everyone else can do it automagically Dec 14 00:57:04 heck, if you don't bother about conforming to their (minimal) standards, you can properly package some random source tarball in a matter of minutes Dec 14 00:58:04 installing sbox on arch is painful, though Dec 14 00:58:07 arch is only trouble for me was lack of version specific apps, and when system things changed in testing, lots of things got broke until was recompiled/repackaged against new stuff Dec 14 00:58:08 even in the necessary chroot Dec 14 00:58:23 kynky, well, that's what you get when you run from [testing] :P Dec 14 00:58:56 but yeah, if you don't read the news feed, you can sometimes get hit with some issues, as sometimes they have to make a break with major components Dec 14 00:59:19 it annoys my friend a bit with his server, because when he first installed it, they didn't say "RTFNews" very clearly Dec 14 00:59:39 but I'd rather that than have big changes done by a postinstall script Dec 14 00:59:45 jaem, not really such an issue with gentoo though, any system stuff changes than just revdep-rebuild and rebuilds all reverse dependencies of the system stuff that had changed Dec 14 01:00:00 it still bugs me that Ubuntu fires up and takes daemons on install without confirmation, but that's just a matter of philosophy Dec 14 01:00:05 nice Dec 14 01:00:25 ubuntu is like the opposite of arch Dec 14 01:00:39 both are good for the goals they set to achieve Dec 14 01:00:55 yeah, and it's kind of odd that there was a huge rush of new Arch users who were ex-Ubuntu users a while back Dec 14 01:00:58 yes, I agree Dec 14 01:01:22 although sometimes I get frustrated with both, and wish I had the time and knowledge to spin my own mashup distro Dec 14 01:01:25 and a lot of ex gentooers too :) Dec 14 01:01:28 heh Dec 14 01:01:54 I really like pacman because it's simple, and almost entirely self-contatined Dec 14 01:02:05 apt is fine, except for the Evil that is dpkg-query Dec 14 01:02:08 why would you want to create your own distro? Dec 14 01:02:21 And how are you "frustrated" with either arch or ubuntu? Dec 14 01:02:34 crashanddie_mbp, little things - not nearly enough to think about making my own seriously... Dec 14 01:02:55 ...just that every distro has a strong philosophy, and none of them are exactly what I'd like in an ideal world Dec 14 01:03:16 there are alot of distros to choose from :) Dec 14 01:03:31 *lot* Dec 14 01:03:48 (totally got it midway...... but yeah.. seems like that) Dec 14 01:03:57 e.g. with Arch you get power, simplicity, and speed, but with some trade-offs, most of which are well worth it, but some of which are mildly annoying Dec 14 01:04:24 i hope you all know #mer Dec 14 01:04:29 and with Ubuntu, you get the out-of-the-box experience, and ease of use, but at the expense of personal control Dec 14 01:04:31 they rely on cli rather than gui for configuration ? Dec 14 01:04:32 ManuelSE, yes Dec 14 01:04:51 lol at speed Dec 14 01:05:10 gentoo and arch have never been about speed, and anyone who thinks that is just wikipedia-fueled fanboy Dec 14 01:05:10 crashanddie_mbp, well, Arch makes Ubuntu look fat, even though it really isn't Dec 14 01:05:12 that's all I meant Dec 14 01:05:23 arch install with x can be done in minutes from fresh, is i686 optimized for 32bit Dec 14 01:05:40 I wasn't referring to "magic build flags" or anything - I just meant that it's a relative lightweight, even with a full desktop Dec 14 01:05:40 gentoo is about choice Dec 14 01:06:00 so I guess "speed" wasn't the best word Dec 14 01:06:22 although when your primary desktop is a dual-core Atom, it comes to about the same thing Dec 14 01:06:45 kynky, for me it's mostly an issue of the trade-off between control and ease of use Dec 14 01:07:07 I want to be *able* to mess with things if I care to, but there are some things I don't *want* to mess with if I don't have to Dec 14 01:07:14 * AakashPatel wants updated haze Dec 14 01:07:17 Arch almost exactly hits the spot there Dec 14 01:07:24 arch basically comes with nothing and you have to add what you want, ubuntu has lots and you have to uninstall what you dont want Dec 14 01:07:55 jaem, waht you want is exactly what arch tries to solve though Dec 14 01:08:03 kynky, yes, and they do a good job Dec 14 01:08:26 just get debian and be done with it Dec 14 01:08:29 I wasn't criticizing them, just saying that nothing is perfect for everyone Dec 14 01:08:31 crashanddie_mbp, lol Dec 14 01:08:39 and Arch is the closest for me Dec 14 01:09:04 I run Kubuntu on my other desktop right now Dec 14 01:09:06 debian is also good they got one of the best, if not the best, linux arm distro Dec 14 01:09:20 maemo is the best :P Dec 14 01:09:26 I've never tried actual Debian - I meant to, but I never got around to it Dec 14 01:09:34 i thought ubuntu + kde was better than kubuntu :) Dec 14 01:09:48 crashanddie_mbp, maemo is awesome, but I just wish I could take Busybox out and shoot it :P Dec 14 01:10:07 kynky, well, if you install the metapackage, it comes to much the same thing Dec 14 01:10:12 jaem, what would you replace busybox with ? Dec 14 01:10:25 heya, guys :) Dec 14 01:10:25 I never used to like Kubuntu, but this release is pretty solid, and they have plans in the works to make it much better Dec 14 01:10:52 kynky, full Unix utils. I know it's a space issue, for one thing, but once they get bootmenu working, that's less of an issue Dec 14 01:11:01 jaem, i haerd ubuntu with kde was better than kubuntu, becuase kubuntu was a traversty, and needs much love, which it will soon be getting Dec 14 01:11:32 some of the crazier things I've tried to do on it and the N810 bailed because of grep not supporting a certain switch, or things like that Dec 14 01:11:46 man busybox Dec 14 01:12:15 guys who of you are not so bussy ? Dec 14 01:12:18 obviously that only works as a search term on the browser though, not in xterm (by default) Dec 14 01:12:24 kynky, with all due respect to the Kubuntu devs (and not blaming them), it did use to stink a bit, but as I said, it's gotten to the point where I can recommend it, and according to their blogs, they're addressing the remaining issues Dec 14 01:12:46 kynky, yes, I know what busybox is and how to use it, but a lot of the tools are too slim for my liking Dec 14 01:12:51 Anpr, go ahead :) Dec 14 01:12:52 ubuntu has been in a recommendable state since v6 or something Dec 14 01:13:00 crashanddie_mbp, I meant Kubuntu Dec 14 01:13:03 Ubuntu's great Dec 14 01:13:08 but Kubuntu needed some love for a while Dec 14 01:13:11 kubuntu is crap, always has, always will be Dec 14 01:13:20 probably because it uses KDE :P Dec 14 01:13:31 lol Dec 14 01:13:32 crashanddie_mbp, let's not get into that Dec 14 01:13:34 lol Dec 14 01:13:48 jaem is it possible to run java sript on n900 ? Dec 14 01:13:55 Anpr, javascript? Dec 14 01:14:05 do you mean with a standalone interpreter, outside of the browser? Dec 14 01:14:17 Anpr: yes, the browser supports javascript Dec 14 01:14:30 like one would with QtScript, Windows Scripting engine, etc, or in the browser? Dec 14 01:14:32 Anpr: if you're talking about Java (as in Sun's Java), then no, it is not supported Dec 14 01:15:04 crashanddie_mbp yeah i was talking about sun probably Dec 14 01:15:14 as opposed to netscapes javascript or microsofts ecmascript or jscript Dec 14 01:15:15 i just have one game Dec 14 01:15:15 as i know it's based on java Dec 14 01:15:18 just java then, not javascript Dec 14 01:15:18 Anpr, what do you need Java for? Dec 14 01:15:21 ah Dec 14 01:15:28 i tried to run it, but it says install java Dec 14 01:15:29 yeah, that's a no-go, at least for now Dec 14 01:15:29 sorry Dec 14 01:15:36 wait, what? Dec 14 01:15:43 how did you try to run it on the N900? Dec 14 01:15:50 and what type of file is it? Dec 14 01:15:53 from the browser Dec 14 01:15:55 applet ? Dec 14 01:15:57 ahh Dec 14 01:15:58 okay Dec 14 01:16:02 it's just a browser game Dec 14 01:16:26 yeah, sorry. There was a partially-functional JVM for Maemo 4, but I don't think anyone has one for Maemo 5 ata ll Dec 14 01:17:32 i wonder will it be the thing, which devel Dec 14 01:18:14 what? Dec 14 01:19:15 omg. obama is in dollhouse! Dec 14 01:19:20 which could attract to developers? Dec 14 01:19:38 if you mean support attracting them, I doubt it Dec 14 01:19:55 IMO one of Maemo's advantages is that it supports other languages Dec 14 01:20:06 but I can see the use-case for a browser plugin Dec 14 01:20:33 Maemo's support of a multitude of languages is also its greatest weakness Dec 14 01:21:07 and one more question, just had different answers on the forum Dec 14 01:21:20 Anpr, shoot Dec 14 01:21:22 does n900 support video conversations on skype ? Dec 14 01:21:28 crashanddie_mbp, isn't that always the way of things :P Dec 14 01:21:32 Anpr, not at the moment Dec 14 01:21:33 not as far as know Dec 14 01:21:38 that reminds me Dec 14 01:21:49 that being said, Java would probably not be an ideal candidate -- It took Java 6 versions to become seriously fast on desktop and server environments, how long before it's fast on a tablet? Dec 14 01:22:30 with the news of Skype open-sourcing their UI for Linux, I wonder if the method Nokia used to hook it into Telepathy is at all related Dec 14 01:22:41 but if there were some tries, as jaem said, on maemo 4 Dec 14 01:22:41 crashanddie_mbp, depends , but java always been fast, swing was slow until 1.4/1.5 Dec 14 01:22:46 I thought that was kind of the point... that you could use Skype communication in whatever way fit your platform Dec 14 01:22:46 replacement touch window assembly: 55€ Dec 14 01:23:02 * jaem ponders Dec 14 01:23:05 kynky: are you on drugs? Dec 14 01:23:12 this game is on for maye 7 years, and it was possible to play it even with pentium 1 or 2 Dec 14 01:23:15 kynky: java was dog slow in java 3 and 4 Dec 14 01:23:21 so i just wonder.. Dec 14 01:23:32 crashanddie_mbp, you mean for gui ? Dec 14 01:23:36 no Dec 14 01:23:38 for everything! Dec 14 01:24:01 it was not slow, it was just resource hungry Dec 14 01:24:07 lots of memory, slow start up time Dec 14 01:24:15 well it was used a lot in enterprise for network communications handling many thousands of requests and connections a second Dec 14 01:24:27 lots of memory used, agreed Dec 14 01:24:38 kynky: the end user does not usually handle thousands of network communications :) Dec 14 01:24:52 crashanddie_mbp, copycat. :P Dec 14 01:24:58 i was just giving an example of why it wwasnt slow Dec 14 01:25:03 hmmm. my first trac reply. couldn,t postpone any longer :-P Dec 14 01:25:04 GAN900: ? Dec 14 01:25:17 moo__, depends on your user :P Dec 14 01:25:30 any of you guys from UK ? Dec 14 01:25:34 m Dec 14 01:25:36 me Dec 14 01:25:46 have particular question connected with UK providers Dec 14 01:25:49 kynky: considering 40% of my job over the last year was developing J2EE applications, you're not teaching me anything ;) Dec 14 01:25:57 _mbp Dec 14 01:26:05 Anpr: I'm based in London but am in california atm Dec 14 01:26:09 crashanddie_mbp, thats what i do for 100% of my job :) Dec 14 01:26:10 kynky if you make skype call is it charges even if you have unlimited web ? Dec 14 01:26:20 charged* Dec 14 01:26:25 kynky: so you're bored out of your ass? Dec 14 01:26:26 anpr what provider you with ? Dec 14 01:26:33 kynky, depends on what your carrier means. Probably yes Dec 14 01:26:41 crashanddie_mbp, i do alot of spring now Dec 14 01:26:47 i have heard some people saying that it is data transfer and they will charge u Dec 14 01:26:55 voda Dec 14 01:27:03 It is data transfer. Dec 14 01:27:07 if they say "unlimited on-device browsing", or something similar, then I have no idea how you got that plan Dec 14 01:27:22 GAN900: had that in the nickname since I installed colloquy Dec 14 01:27:35 GAN900: when at work IRC is firewalled, so I have to use webchat Dec 14 01:27:47 Anpr: Personally, I recommend t-mobile PAYG 6-month-internet booster Dec 14 01:27:56 Anpr: 30 quid gets you 60 month internet Dec 14 01:27:59 Anpr, it does count, but normally carriers wouldn't allow you to get any sort of pseudo-unlimited plan for the N900 for the simple reason that they can't control what you do with it (which is a good trade-off, IMO) Dec 14 01:28:02 Anpr: 1G/mo use Dec 14 01:28:03 voda dont officially support skype, they should block unless you get the max deal at an additional cost of 25pounds/month , the only uk carrier tto support skype properly (as in reasonable cost) is three mobile Dec 14 01:28:12 Anpr: 6 month Dec 14 01:28:14 not 60 Dec 14 01:28:20 kynky, tunnel it through ssh :P? Dec 14 01:28:23 anyone here messed with the serial port? :x Dec 14 01:28:29 that didn't work all that well on the N810 Dec 14 01:28:31 SpeedEvil, yeah but i bought my n900 with voda.. so i am kind of stuck on voda for 12months Dec 14 01:28:33 luke-jr, on Maemo? yes Dec 14 01:28:34 so just wondered Dec 14 01:28:40 but i had like a better idea Dec 14 01:28:40 I taped wires to it, but now my N810 won't boot at all Dec 14 01:28:41 ah Dec 14 01:28:43 luke-jr, what do you need? Dec 14 01:28:46 if voda charge u anyway Dec 14 01:28:49 luke-jr, *facepalm* Dec 14 01:28:54 so for example if i got wifi connection Dec 14 01:28:58 oh, *that* serial port Dec 14 01:29:05 jaem: there's two? Dec 14 01:29:19 Anpr, they wont charge, they will just block, they can only charge if you go over your 500mb/month limit Dec 14 01:29:20 and am making skype call through a wifi connection, so they cant charge me, can they ? Dec 14 01:29:25 luke-jr, I thought you meant in software, not the actual hardware port Dec 14 01:29:32 I've messed with rfcomm recently Dec 14 01:29:33 Anpr: no Dec 14 01:29:36 Anpr: they cannot Dec 14 01:29:38 o Dec 14 01:29:41 oh snap - right, I need to file a bug about that Dec 14 01:29:42 Anpr: as it's not going through their nets. Dec 14 01:29:45 Anpr, im ith vodafone now, but didnt get n900 on contract, i bought it halfprice from nokia store Dec 14 01:29:52 Anpr: they have not modified the n900 at all Dec 14 01:30:03 if you go through wifi, voda wont know Dec 14 01:30:03 Anpr: so it's the completely stock software stack Dec 14 01:30:07 so it allows me to make free skype calls, i just have to make it through wifi? Dec 14 01:30:12 yes Dec 14 01:30:20 or USB-net Dec 14 01:30:26 Anpr: think it as a computer Dec 14 01:30:26 Anpr: use SIP, not Skpye -.- Dec 14 01:30:28 Anpr, you can *try* to make then over 3g Dec 14 01:30:35 cheers, i got it now =] Dec 14 01:30:40 Anpr, as I said, you own the N900, and they can't control what you do with it (at least in terms of the hardware and OS itself), so that means they won't give you any breaks Dec 14 01:31:10 but it seems to me unfair to block those kind of transfers Dec 14 01:31:14 in fact, they might even be nastier in some cases Dec 14 01:31:18 it could be open, but still 500mb/month Dec 14 01:31:25 jaem: in France, they modify HTTP headeres Dec 14 01:31:42 they say they block the sype ports (doesnt mean they do), you can go through a proxy or vpnto bypass it, set up a free vpn on your home computer, or pay a small fee to use one Dec 14 01:31:43 Anpr, it's a cell carrier - they've lobbied the government to remove the word "fair" from the English language Dec 14 01:31:47 moo__, blech Dec 14 01:31:48 Anpr: you also can use a new SIM with a different plan. I don't think voda has simlocked the N900 Dec 14 01:31:52 moo__, VPN? Dec 14 01:32:02 Anpr: you can complain to some consumer advocacy in your country. I think all UK operators are evil bastards which should get bombed out of the business. Dec 14 01:32:15 DocScrutinizer nope they havent Dec 14 01:32:18 oh wait, you can buy the N900 through the carrier unlocked? Dec 14 01:32:19 its sim free Dec 14 01:32:19 huh Dec 14 01:32:27 Anpr, in there eyes its completelyfair, their primary buisness is about sending telecommunications data , using their network Dec 14 01:32:30 we don't have it in Canada, so I wasn't even aware the carriers were selling them Dec 14 01:32:41 all n900 are unlocked afaik Dec 14 01:33:03 kynky: if you buy data traffic then its your traffic - why carrier should know what you are doing with it the traffic Dec 14 01:33:05 moo__ true, but it just an unnecessary headache Dec 14 01:33:32 moo__, agreed, but cell carriers are all about squeezing money out of you Dec 14 01:33:57 is that an excuse? Dec 14 01:34:00 i feel sad.. i do not know many things about proxies and this kind of stuff.. was sleeping at my time... Dec 14 01:34:04 jaem: for example in Finland it is forbidden for the carrier to poke the traffic any way Dec 14 01:34:11 moo__, and good for Finland Dec 14 01:34:18 otherwise they are messing with private communication Dec 14 01:34:23 moo__, well the contract with vodafone expliticly excludes skype/sip on their free unlimited dataplan which has a 500mb limit /per month , they can legally do it, although morally i guess your arguing against it Dec 14 01:34:27 somebody suggested me trying SIP Dec 14 01:34:43 oh.. so they exclude and sip.. Dec 14 01:34:50 kynky: what's the legal basis? they mention in the contract "we can block any traffic we wish?" Dec 14 01:35:05 what??? 500MB/month? lol Dec 14 01:35:09 moo__: pretty much Dec 14 01:35:12 Anpr, they say they do, doesnt mean they enforce it, try it, if it works fine Dec 14 01:35:40 moo__, what SpeedEvil said Dec 14 01:35:41 kynky: 'and any breach of these conditions means you pay at the stanard rate of 0.73p/MB' Dec 14 01:35:43 yeah, will have to Dec 14 01:35:45 i read contract Dec 14 01:36:04 Anpr, if it is bocked create a free vpn on your home omputer Dec 14 01:36:14 they cant bloc the vpn Dec 14 01:36:17 lol, n900 cellmo antenna assembly costs half of what the battery cover costs Dec 14 01:36:20 and use skype through that Dec 14 01:36:30 kynky *sad face* i wish i knew that's vpn... Dec 14 01:36:38 ShadowJK: Is there a publically available store of parts? Dec 14 01:36:58 SpeedEvil, oh I just found it on one of the phone acessories sites Dec 14 01:37:01 Anpr, "Virtual Private Network" Dec 14 01:37:25 hmm, i see now :) Dec 14 01:37:25 ShadowJK: linky? Dec 14 01:37:26 vpn = virtual private network, essentially your phone logs into your compuer and your computer does the skype call, but its all invisible, its like you doing it from phone Dec 14 01:37:27 the effect of connecting to a VPN is that your device appears to be on the LAN where the VPN server is running (e.g. your office or homw) Dec 14 01:37:28 ShadowJK: how much's the touchpanel ? Dec 14 01:37:30 and it's encrypted Dec 14 01:37:39 DocScrutinizer, 55€ Dec 14 01:37:48 hmmm Dec 14 01:37:51 thanks Dec 14 01:37:59 so all the carrier will see is a bunch of encrypted data going out, and thus they can't tell what it is Dec 14 01:38:05 http://www.klc.fi/fin/tuotteet/Nokia-Varaosat-N900 Dec 14 01:38:08 and can't block it based on content Dec 14 01:38:16 not much help outside of .fi I guess Dec 14 01:38:24 if they did, you can do them for it :) Dec 14 01:38:37 Anpr, useful any time you're on an untrusted connection Dec 14 01:38:45 one day i will have to try it :) Dec 14 01:38:53 all your traffic gets routed through a connection you do trust Dec 14 01:39:08 Oh no, it's encrypted, all the letters are jumbled :) Dec 14 01:39:12 if you didd internet shopping, you would use the vpn Dec 14 01:39:14 there are simpler ways to tunnel your traffic, although a VPN is the best for many cases Dec 14 01:39:28 SpeedEvil, aslfsdhfsduofishnweoulnvosi uwe? Dec 14 01:39:29 oh, sorry Dec 14 01:39:31 ;) Dec 14 01:39:39 I said, "is that so?" Dec 14 01:39:51 it's a bit more than jumbled, technically Dec 14 01:39:58 The stylus is 7 euro! Dec 14 01:40:04 * SpeedEvil sighs. Dec 14 01:40:19 three mobile payg do 2gb/month for 5pounds with no restriction on skype/sip btw Dec 14 01:40:27 * jaem sighs Dec 14 01:40:31 one more exam Dec 14 01:40:34 no textbook Dec 14 01:40:36 7€ the stylus!! I knew it! lol! Dec 14 01:40:44 which means I'll be studying from wikipedia Dec 14 01:40:44 woo Dec 14 01:40:47 wtf?? 7bucks for that plastic ttothpick Dec 14 01:40:58 kynky: t-mobile is awesome ATM - if you can live with 1G/mo - 6 months for 20 quid Dec 14 01:41:00 * kynky note to self - edit wikipedia Dec 14 01:41:22 cool Dec 14 01:41:23 why they offer a course with a textbook that half the class can't afford, and that isn't available in a library in the whole darn province, I really don't know Dec 14 01:41:30 i like this t-mobile plan Dec 14 01:41:30 not to mention the prof doesn't even have a copy Dec 14 01:41:41 kynky, aw, then I'll have to download it again Dec 14 01:41:47 That website totally proves how technology doesn't relate AT all to the product! Dec 14 01:42:07 *price Dec 14 01:42:12 SpeedEvil, tmobile uk is good for the fact if you go over data limit, they dont charge you, like every1 else does, but they block skype/sip unless you get the expensive package , well contract says that Dec 14 01:42:14 more Dec 14 01:42:18 like that Dec 14 01:42:24 SpeedEvil: seriously? Link Dec 14 01:42:36 kynky: the plan I'm on has no detailed TOS oddly Dec 14 01:42:53 SpeedEvil, it takes ages ofdrilling down to gt tos Dec 14 01:43:14 i went through , orange/o2/tmobile/vodafone Dec 14 01:43:20 ToS have no legal force anyhow Dec 14 01:43:29 unless they make you read it before getting service Dec 14 01:43:46 http://www.t-mobile.co.uk/services/payg/boosters/ Dec 14 01:43:52 click 'internet boosters' Dec 14 01:44:01 after my vodafone contract runs out in march will prob get three mobile, if not then orange Dec 14 01:44:03 type of service?? o.O Dec 14 01:44:04 6-month internet Plus Booster Dec 14 01:44:10 Terms Of Service Dec 14 01:44:14 SpeedEvil: oh, UK only? :( Dec 14 01:44:44 luke-jr: oops - sorry Dec 14 01:45:03 luke-jr: I thought you were in the UK for some reason Dec 14 01:45:07 contract details will be same as for normal payg internet stuff Dec 14 01:45:59 kynky so in your point of view there is just "3" who does not block skype/sip ? Dec 14 01:47:26 Anpr, for normal internet data plans three are the only ones who publicly say they dont block, the others say they do, but doesnt mean they actually do Dec 14 01:47:31 declaring it's not allowed doesn't mean the block Dec 14 01:47:50 DocScrutinizer, exactly Dec 14 01:47:53 Anpr, isn't 3 the carrier that was proxying images through a GIF converter so they could claim their internet was faster? Dec 14 01:47:59 or was that someone else? Dec 14 01:48:15 jaem no idea actually Dec 14 01:48:19 jaem: voda was doing something like that Dec 14 01:48:23 hmm... whoever it was, that's evil Dec 14 01:48:34 5 quid for 2gb/mo Dec 14 01:48:45 anpr yep Dec 14 01:48:56 it's not so bad, actually Dec 14 01:48:59 the example I saw showed a low-palette comic strip side-by-side comparison, and even for an image like that the compression was disgusting Dec 14 01:49:02 if it's free and open to make skype calls, fair enough for me Dec 14 01:49:05 but if you go over limit, its expensive Dec 14 01:49:36 but same for every1 else except tmobile Dec 14 01:49:44 Anpr, may I ask why you need to make Skype calls over 3G? Do you need to make lots of long-distance/international calls on the go? Dec 14 01:49:51 jaem: afaik you always can disable that Dec 14 01:49:56 but it is payg, isn't it ? so if you do not have any balance i think they can not charge you, you just should won't be able to use connection Dec 14 01:49:59 if not, I don't see why you can't use wifi Dec 14 01:49:59 or am i wrong ? Dec 14 01:50:07 Anpr, think so Dec 14 01:50:20 Anpr, I think you're right, but pay-as-you-go data is probably a rip-off Dec 14 01:50:33 hmm Dec 14 01:50:49 jaem i can, ofcause Dec 14 01:50:52 2gb/month on payg for 5pounds is cheap, its cheaper than any contract deal Dec 14 01:51:10 if not show me cheaper in uk Dec 14 01:51:18 Anpr, just wondering, because I can't see Skype local minutes over a data connection being cheaper than air time Dec 14 01:51:21 maybe I'm wrong Dec 14 01:51:22 I think one of the UK carriers have different APNs for internet, one that modifies content and makes it smaller and one that doesn't Dec 14 01:51:23 i just wonder how does it feel e.g walk in the city and talk through skype Dec 14 01:51:27 jaem: I got payg 5GB for 25€ Dec 14 01:51:28 * ShadowJK doesn't remember which one Dec 14 01:51:41 De Dec 14 01:51:43 skype to skype is free Dec 14 01:52:04 Anpr, yeah, looking at the dialer for the first time and seeing a "call from" button was a bit of a Wow moment for me Dec 14 01:52:18 it looks seamless, and that's how I like it Dec 14 01:52:48 is there any way you can disable 3G data completely while still using the N900 as a phone? Dec 14 01:52:53 google voice seems nice Dec 14 01:52:54 jaem: alas that button's missing when calling a contact Dec 14 01:53:02 jaem, yep Dec 14 01:53:10 DocScrutinizer, how are you initiating the call? Dec 14 01:53:13 kynky, how? Dec 14 01:53:21 i'll have to go 3 shop Dec 14 01:53:24 and ask them Dec 14 01:53:38 jaem: hit the number in contacts? Dec 14 01:53:42 it may be a moot point given that I can't actually afford one any time soon, but my student budget won't cover cell data, and I wouldn't want to get overages Dec 14 01:53:53 click on connections and disconnect 3g, and make sure in settings it not automatically connect via 3g Dec 14 01:54:00 DocScrutinizer, oh, yeah, but in the contacts you can just hit the SkypeOut button instead Dec 14 01:54:10 bah Dec 14 01:54:13 skype Dec 14 01:54:18 jaem i am about skype to skype Dec 14 01:54:24 they are free :) Dec 14 01:54:28 I'm talking bout SIP Dec 14 01:54:46 kynky, ah, okay. That should work, although I was kind of hoping there was method that couldn't accidentally turned on Dec 14 01:55:04 Anpr, I see, that makes sense Dec 14 01:55:09 hmm Dec 14 01:55:14 well you only need to disconnect 3g if it already connected Dec 14 01:55:20 device was fine up until 10 minutes ago, rebooted twice since :/ Dec 14 01:55:30 personally, I wish Rogers had a data option in between the legacy 3MB plan and the current 500MB plan Dec 14 01:55:56 so the best way, if i can't get connected to wifi Dec 14 01:56:04 because I can't afford to use the N900 as an internet tablet, but having just a bit of data for SSH would be killer for me Dec 14 01:56:13 is get a three payg Dec 14 01:56:19 as i can see, for now.. Dec 14 01:56:30 microlith: filled / ? Dec 14 01:56:31 but 3MB is obviously far too small, and 500MB is more than I need, or can afford Dec 14 01:56:51 * jaem will be back later Dec 14 01:57:52 DocScrutinizer51: 66.7MB free Dec 14 01:57:54 Anpr, well assuming vodafone def doesnot work with skype (you wil have to try) Dec 14 01:58:13 microlith: *after* reboot yeah Dec 14 01:58:35 does something empty it on reboot? Dec 14 01:58:46 microlith: reboot freeing up amazing amounts of / Dec 14 01:58:55 what's using it? Dec 14 01:58:57 yep it does Dec 14 01:58:58 logs? Dec 14 01:59:10 logs are in ram Dec 14 01:59:22 microlith: nobody found out yet. ask SpeedEvil Dec 14 02:00:00 SpeedEvil: any comments? Dec 14 02:10:11 should be gettin' my second n900 tomorrow, unless fedex acts like drunken hobos again Dec 14 02:11:56 Klowner: gettin greedy? ;-P Dec 14 02:13:13 ~stab Klowner Dec 14 02:13:14 * infobot runs at Klowner with an origami Swiss Army knife, and inflicts a nasty paper cut. Dec 14 02:20:31 Klowner, hey, same here! Dec 14 02:20:40 Though from DHL Dec 14 02:22:11 darn. guys what,s wrong with you? do you need a device for each hand? XD Dec 14 02:22:56 Loaner + DDP Dec 14 02:23:19 aah Dec 14 02:23:36 DocScrutinizer, yes, don't you? Dec 14 02:23:45 dual-wielding Linux power Dec 14 02:23:47 heh Dec 14 02:24:40 nah, I'm fine with a zoo of different devices ;-P Dec 14 02:26:24 and don't get me started or I'll activate my army of freerunners XD Dec 14 02:26:44 lol Dec 14 02:32:31 * Klowner slowlys bleeds to death from the papercut Dec 14 02:32:37 I want an AR headset that "materializes" handhelds on demand Dec 14 02:32:44 fingers crossed this second one has a functional microphone Dec 14 02:32:45 including full 21" displays <.< Dec 14 02:33:05 handhelds and wimminfolk Dec 14 02:33:49 wtf Dec 14 02:34:02 when i plug my phone into my Samsung TV Dec 14 02:34:05 its black and white Dec 14 02:34:24 and doesnt stretch across the screen Dec 14 02:35:29 AakashPatel: adjust pal/ntsc setting Dec 14 02:35:36 I did Dec 14 02:35:40 its on NTSC Dec 14 02:35:43 and im in the US Dec 14 02:35:44 soo... Dec 14 02:36:07 hmm Dec 14 02:36:16 sure it's a composite port? Dec 14 02:36:19 never twice same color Dec 14 02:36:19 And i *think* this tv is NTSC (havent ever plugged anything into the av ports Dec 14 02:36:40 yep. works great here on PAL Dec 14 02:37:04 http://www.samsung.com/us/consumer/tv-video/televisions/led-tv/UN55B8500XFXZA/index.idx?pagetype=prd_detail&tab=features Dec 14 02:37:05 erm feck Dec 14 02:37:07 wrong window Dec 14 02:37:31 AakashPatel: you're not plugging it into component video plugs or anything? Dec 14 02:37:49 hm lemme check again Dec 14 02:37:59 the plug should likely be yellow Dec 14 02:38:07 I think.. Dec 14 02:38:24 lolwtf Dec 14 02:38:33 MUHAHA Dec 14 02:38:39 all the ports that look like the right ports Dec 14 02:38:46 say COMPONENT Dec 14 02:39:01 Composite (AV) Dec 14 02:39:02 1 (back shared with component) Dec 14 02:39:03 Oh Dec 14 02:39:07 wtf? Dec 14 02:39:21 shared with component, yeah i used that one Dec 14 02:39:40 eeh? Dec 14 02:39:42 set up TV correctly Dec 14 02:39:47 OH Dec 14 02:39:49 should be Composite Dec 14 02:39:58 I think when i selected input i did component Dec 14 02:40:03 lemme try now haha Dec 14 02:40:12 yellow=video, red=right audio, white=left audio Dec 14 02:41:29 lol Dec 14 02:41:31 yeah it worked Dec 14 02:41:47 Klowner: on my tv the component and composite are the same ports Dec 14 02:42:09 i selected Component intstead of AV last time by accident Dec 14 02:43:33 ohHhhhh Dec 14 02:43:49 Samsung ftw :| Dec 14 02:44:34 don't ask abbout LG's extraordinarily firmware Dec 14 02:44:40 But i do have to say, this tv is the best picture evar Dec 14 02:44:45 Even cnet says :0 Dec 14 02:44:51 DocScrutinizer51: haha Dec 14 02:45:32 whats the normal contrast ratio on HDTV's? Dec 14 02:46:17 150000:1 o.O Dec 14 02:46:22 Contrast ratio is a meaningless number. Dec 14 02:46:28 who cares? as long as the picture is goodlookin Dec 14 02:46:31 oh man Dec 14 02:46:31 Pure marketing. Dec 14 02:46:40 no really Dec 14 02:46:48 GAN900: exactly Dec 14 02:46:53 this tv says 7MIllion:1 Dec 14 02:47:00 The blacks are truely solid black Dec 14 02:47:04 led tv's are great. need to buy one @future too Dec 14 02:47:04 the led backlights turn off Dec 14 02:47:04 There's nothing governing how the contrast ratio is measured. Dec 14 02:47:17 Often it's dynamic. Dec 14 02:47:36 yeh contrast ratio is one value you dont read from tv tech specs *g* Dec 14 02:47:48 eh, all i can tell you is this is truly the blackest black you can have ;) Dec 14 02:47:49 inter picture contrast. one with backlit off. MUHAHA Dec 14 02:48:18 only thing that counts is dynamic intrapict contrast Dec 14 02:48:40 shh and just get that LED TV i accidently posted Dec 14 02:49:01 thats intrapictasthtk for ya Dec 14 02:49:02 lol Dec 14 02:51:52 mayb when prices drop down a bit. or not the 55" version. Dec 14 02:52:03 does any else manufacturer than samsung do led tv's yet? Dec 14 02:54:18 there's lots of them. white LED side backlight. white full area backlight. RGB both flavours. full araea with dynamic controlled brightness in sub sections Dec 14 02:54:32 wtf Dec 14 02:54:46 Is anybody elese phone complaining about ovi not logging in Dec 14 02:54:53 its getting annoying Dec 14 02:54:55 the warning lol Dec 14 02:55:41 is it possible to sync n810/n900 data with ovi nowdays? Dec 14 02:56:50 NETWERK ERRAR Dec 14 02:57:00 okay maemo, i know there is one, thanks for warning me 10 times Dec 14 02:57:09 eeeek the gremlins Dec 14 02:58:51 Hm whats the point of having the Ovi Account in the accounts thing? Dec 14 02:58:56 I dont think there is one :| Dec 14 02:59:08 * AakashPatel deletes it Dec 14 02:59:29 ooo nice "enable" checkbox Dec 14 02:59:32 * AakashPatel unmarks it **** ENDING LOGGING AT Mon Dec 14 02:59:56 2009