**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Dec 19 02:59:56 2009 Dec 19 03:03:05 hmm Dec 19 03:03:39 is there anything that can play back h.264 files in an mp4 container for the N900? Dec 19 03:05:08 ahh, I see my problem Dec 19 03:05:18 kmplayer doesn't escape spaces in filenames... Dec 19 03:13:25 ok it just has bad unicode path handling Dec 19 03:17:37 hmm Dec 19 03:17:40 no luck with kmplayer Dec 19 03:23:23 sneaky nokians linking-in pulse when i link-in alsa Dec 19 03:23:45 hehehe Dec 19 03:24:01 microlith: i have read that it only 'baseline h.264' is supported, whatever that means Dec 19 03:24:10 yeah Dec 19 03:24:11 -it Dec 19 03:24:16 I'm trying SiB and mplayer now Dec 19 03:24:38 by the dsp - maybe mplayer can do more Dec 19 03:26:52 ok, SiB makes no sense, it's trying to... create a folder Dec 19 03:27:03 and telling me there are no video files in a dir with two videos? Dec 19 03:33:35 well it did something, but nothing useful :/ Dec 19 03:37:39 knots2 over 3g is the maemo5 'brown note' Dec 19 03:48:20 microlith that happens when your files are 0644 mode and you only have acces to 775 files but if you < su > thats an whole new ballgame. right?. Dec 19 03:50:51 type_t: so you're saying that the playback issue is one of permissions? Dec 19 03:53:56 ok, some package isn't cleaning up properly and eating away at my root partition... Dec 19 04:35:20 where do the folders/files in the file manager show up in the file system...they aren't in /home/user Dec 19 04:38:47 yo Dec 19 04:39:13 ... Dec 19 04:39:17 now mass storage mode is acting stupid Dec 19 04:40:57 what the fuck Dec 19 04:41:17 why does the n900 immediately hide the drives it makes available via mass storage Dec 19 04:41:54 this is fucking stupid Dec 19 04:42:56 so it's unmounted the partitions Dec 19 04:42:59 but not sharing them Dec 19 04:43:46 ...works for me? Dec 19 04:43:50 hmm Dec 19 04:43:58 seems I may have a fucked usb port on my case Dec 19 04:44:28 i find i have to plug the cable into the PC first, then the phone Dec 19 05:01:14 thumbnailerd is eating the cpu :/ Dec 19 05:05:56 timeless_mbp: any hint on how to go to top of a loooong html page? balistic fingerscrolling is tedious, shift-space doesn't autorepeat, and cursor-up is slooow. Dec 19 05:06:14 what is the world coming to? Debian stable has a newer version of Perl than Gentoo testing. Dec 19 05:07:13 * microlith boggles as mplayer locks 2 seconds into the video Dec 19 05:07:25 I wonder how the hell people are getting smooth video playback on this thing Dec 19 05:11:35 microlith: I've found it often stops a bit into it but then doesn't have a problem after that. Dec 19 05:12:06 hardaker: I have to kill the mplayer process as it never continues Dec 19 05:12:18 use a lightweight compression format? or one that N900 has an optimized decoder algo for maybe? Dec 19 05:12:19 oh... mplayer. Dec 19 05:12:21 I missed that. Dec 19 05:12:22 sorry. Dec 19 05:12:37 DocScrutinizer51: re-encode all my videos for a system that shouldn't need it? nah. Dec 19 05:13:01 shouldn't need? Dec 19 05:13:26 heh, that's a 600MHz CPU!! Dec 19 05:13:28 omap3430 isn't so weak that you need to re-encode things Dec 19 05:13:47 but that's beside the point Dec 19 05:13:57 try that on a 600MHz P-II desktop before you complain Dec 19 05:14:52 again, that's -beside- the point Dec 19 05:15:01 it's running with -framedrop so at the worst it would be choppy, but play Dec 19 05:15:03 this isn't even playing Dec 19 05:16:01 it's beside the point to demand fluent video playback of whatever arbitrary crappy video format from a 600MHz system Dec 19 05:16:14 can you not read? Dec 19 05:16:19 I can't get -any- proper playback Dec 19 05:16:21 none Dec 19 05:16:37 you're suggesting I shouldn't expect any Dec 19 05:16:49 hmm. no problems here Dec 19 05:16:55 microlith: um, no Dec 19 05:17:06 microlith: my Athlon64 3200+ can barely handle 720p Dec 19 05:17:15 DocScrutinizer51: my n95 played pretty good res h264 video pretty well Dec 19 05:17:20 and NO I didn't do anything like suggesting that Dec 19 05:17:21 luke-jr_: th'at still completely fucking beside the point Dec 19 05:17:26 then again it has a hw x264 decoder Dec 19 05:17:29 I cannot get playback whatsoever Dec 19 05:17:31 nothing Dec 19 05:17:46 no video ever appears with the h.264 file, and the DivX file shows 2 frames then locks Dec 19 05:18:01 microlith: ouch hhe Dec 19 05:18:54 er. meant h264 not x Dec 19 05:19:01 divx? Dec 19 05:19:17 that is already fail :) Dec 19 05:19:27 it's an old file (2004) Dec 19 05:20:20 alright i'm totally offtrack .. yesterday i (thought i) bookmarked a guide for building packages for maemo .. there was a definitive guide for package building, can anyone point me to it? 0.0 Dec 19 05:23:55 swc|666: http://wiki.maemo.org/Uploading_to_Extras Dec 19 05:23:58 (among others) Dec 19 05:24:29 (video) please realize a video format is a complex datastructure, and not all encoders obey all specs all of the time. Playback of those non standards conforming videos may work flawlessly on one decoder while another one chokes on same file Dec 19 05:30:12 how do you gain root on os2008 Dec 19 05:30:15 sorry os2007 Dec 19 05:30:55 install rootsh pkg. do Msudo gainroot' Dec 19 05:31:21 s/ M/ '/ Dec 19 05:31:21 DocScrutinizer51 meant: install rootsh pkg. do 'sudo gainroot' Dec 19 06:13:44 i could not help but notice usbcontrol out in extras-devel Dec 19 06:14:29 :) assuming this means its just a matter of time Dec 19 06:16:43 unless someone is toying with my emotions Dec 19 06:17:39 why not download the package and see what it does? Dec 19 06:21:35 johnx because im in bed and not sure where i put the usb adapter i had Dec 19 06:21:59 ah, I was just meaning, download and look at the contents Dec 19 06:22:14 i was under the impression yoou need a special cable that can inject power Dec 19 06:22:29 afaik, that's just people guessing at this point Dec 19 06:23:49 yeah, contains files last modified on may 20th, and looks like it just does the usb host stuff for the N8x0 Dec 19 06:24:00 probably found its way into fremantle by accident Dec 19 06:28:51 dpkg -l maemo-recorder Dec 19 06:28:51 Desired=Unknown/Install/Remove/Purge/Hold Dec 19 06:28:51 | Status=Not/Inst/Cfg-files/Unpacked/Failed-cfg/Half-inst/trig-aWait/Trig-pend Dec 19 06:28:51 |/ Err?=(none)/Hold/Reinst-required/X=both-problems (Status,Err: uppercase=bad) Dec 19 06:28:56 what's wrong with it? Dec 19 06:30:26 failed to install? Dec 19 06:30:55 it just "vanished" from my device yesterday Dec 19 06:31:21 will dpkg -r now and reinstall. but i'd like to know what happened Dec 19 06:31:36 "vanished" is like the vaguest description ever Dec 19 06:31:50 a couple more details might help someone piece together what happened... Dec 19 06:32:24 jonx: both icon and executable file disappeared Dec 19 06:32:41 weird...did you do any upgrades on other software or anything? Dec 19 06:32:44 though i do not remember any updates did fail recently Dec 19 06:32:46 dpkg -L pkg Dec 19 06:32:52 tell me if any of the files are still there? Dec 19 06:33:34 oops, too late, i already reinstalled it :-( sorry, i just thought it is known situation Dec 19 06:33:37 arkenoi, do you have 'recorder' installed? Dec 19 06:34:02 flux: yes, do they conflict? Dec 19 06:34:07 Replaces: maemo-recorder Dec 19 06:34:20 ;) Dec 19 06:34:31 ah :-))) Dec 19 06:34:37 which is better, then? Dec 19 06:36:44 * johnx heads off to play video games, turn his mind off Dec 19 07:37:54 * ENTERANICK [W2I=000:u:0:000:] Dec 19 08:09:13 Does anyone know how to tune the saturation settings of tv out? Dec 19 08:11:24 via the OMAP3 chip? :) Dec 19 08:11:41 or do you want a circuit diagram? Dec 19 08:14:22 derf: pong Dec 19 08:16:52 Good morning! Dec 19 08:17:52 Hey.. is there some garage admin there? Check this page: http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/n900fly/0.1.5/ Yesterday I tried to vote (one time) but my network was bad.. and.. yes... I got happy playing with the thumbs up button. Dec 19 08:18:43 By the way, if someone can test/vote it there, it would be nice. It's the app that shows how high you can throw your phone Dec 19 08:19:00 (n900fly) Dec 19 08:21:46 does n900fly have online leaderboards? Dec 19 08:21:59 might be pretty dangerous if it did :-P Dec 19 08:32:25 RST38h: sure I want a circuit diagram :-D Dec 19 08:37:15 pekuja: I see... that would be a nice idea Dec 19 08:38:04 pekuja: but! since it is all open source and in python, in less than 5 minutes there would be a 300000km record submitted by a funny guy Dec 19 08:38:20 (unless we added some obscure crypto.. which is not my field...) Dec 19 08:40:42 won't help. This type of highscore reporting competitions has been hacked every single time Dec 19 08:43:04 cpscotti: yeah, that's true Dec 19 08:43:14 sad.. but true... Dec 19 08:43:35 pekuja: you see the big bug at maemo.org at that page? Dec 19 08:44:14 cpscotti: one way that would at least slow cheaters down would be to record a accelerometer input log that would be verified by the leaderboard server Dec 19 08:44:22 cpscotti: I can see that you've voted like five times Dec 19 08:44:47 it needs automatic youtube upload for record runs Dec 19 08:45:07 :-) Dec 19 08:45:19 the problem is, that would probably just look really weird Dec 19 08:45:26 pekuja: yes.. I thought about that, simply sending a "accdisplay"-like xml file would be ok... but even then.. it's not stopping cheaters.. just making it harder Dec 19 08:45:30 especially if the phone is spinning Dec 19 08:45:40 cpscotti: true Dec 19 08:45:41 glass_: yes.. the youtube thing.. is a good one indeed!! Dec 19 08:46:13 pekuja: the file would just be blank for all the flight.. Dec 19 08:46:21 cpscotti: harder? no way Dec 19 08:46:23 (x,y,z) = 0,0,0 Dec 19 08:46:33 by the way, is there an estimated battery life somewhere in N900's UI? Dec 19 08:46:38 DocScrutinizer51: more "time consuming" Dec 19 08:46:56 I can only find the visual indicator that doesn't really tell me how much I have left Dec 19 08:47:18 pekuja: NO! and that pisses me off! so I do "lshal | grep bat" at the shell.. and watch the battery.reporting value Dec 19 08:47:31 pekuja: no Dec 19 08:47:33 pekuja, no because it would make you sad Dec 19 08:47:35 :-/ Dec 19 08:47:41 It's totally dumb that they don't have an estimate Dec 19 08:47:42 is there a separate app or widget for that? Dec 19 08:47:46 slonopotamus: heh :-/ Dec 19 08:48:34 pekuja: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=24905&highlight=advanced+power Dec 19 08:48:44 (never tried yet.. but seems good) Dec 19 08:49:20 is it possible to use scratchbox2 for maemo development? Dec 19 08:50:26 * cpscotti leaving for his first airport day since I got the proper tool for such a task! n900 Dec 19 08:50:28 I'm not able to get scratchbox running on my ubuntu :( Dec 19 08:50:46 xeviox: search about vdso=0 Dec 19 08:51:06 xeviox: which is your version? Karmic Koala? Dec 19 08:51:32 err... unpacking tarbzip on n900, anyone? Dec 19 08:51:32 cpscotti: is it about the kernel option? I'm not that experienced with linux, so I don't know how to change the kernel version .. Dec 19 08:52:12 xeviox: well.. that's not too hard.: go to /etc/grub.d/ Dec 19 08:52:26 openn 10_linux, copy the entry that you use Dec 19 08:52:37 cpscotti: Ubuntu 9.10 Karmic Koala Dec 19 08:52:49 k Dec 19 08:52:49 woops.. Dec 19 08:52:52 one sec. Dec 19 08:52:53 forget my last line Dec 19 08:53:00 k Dec 19 08:53:56 what you have to do is add a custom version to /etc/grub.d/40_custom Dec 19 08:54:39 cpscotti: can you point me to a tutorial? Dec 19 08:54:55 I'm just a beginner as I said before :( Dec 19 08:54:57 the scratchbox sdk installation one did it for me Dec 19 08:54:58 well.. Dec 19 08:55:02 I gotta go now.. Dec 19 08:55:03 =/ Dec 19 08:55:12 oh ok Dec 19 08:55:14 thanks Dec 19 08:55:15 but search about adding vdso=0 at the end of a line Dec 19 08:55:20 ok, my battery just died Dec 19 08:55:23 linux /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.31-16-generic root=UUID=ce4b9411-6d6e-4fa8-81f2-b4c4002ef4a4 ro quiet splash vdso32=0 Dec 19 08:55:31 it would be something like this Dec 19 08:55:32 haha Dec 19 08:55:32 I should had made a note of when it first reported low battery Dec 19 08:55:32 ok Dec 19 08:55:33 going Dec 19 08:55:34 gone Dec 19 08:56:56 I think I unplugged it yesterday at 8:00, and it's now almost 11:00, so it lasted about 27 hours... I wasn't really using it heavily though Dec 19 08:59:43 I did have WiFi on the whole time and it was checking my e-mail every 30 minutes Dec 19 09:00:44 so I think that's pretty good Dec 19 09:03:22 I should do a kind of stress test some day. Dec 19 09:22:53 argh now I've added the vsdo line which should disable vsdo to get scratchbox running, but I got the same error :( Dec 19 09:24:36 konttori Dec 19 09:24:58 you edited /etc/sysctl.conf Dec 19 09:25:07 and then ran sysctl -p ? Dec 19 09:25:13 and then restarted scratchbox? Dec 19 09:25:20 if you cant desaturate at the tvout end, you could try a bit earlier Dec 19 09:25:33 doesnt the pvr have pixelshaders? Dec 19 09:25:35 gavin: no I edited menu.lst, but I'll try your way :) Dec 19 09:26:08 gavin: what do I have to change in /etc/sysctl.conf ? Dec 19 09:26:21 but usually you leave the saturation to the hardware at the tv end i believe Dec 19 09:26:30 xeviox: which linux are you using? Dec 19 09:26:55 gavin: Ubuntu 9.10 Dec 19 09:27:15 oh good, I know how to make that work since I did it yesterday :) Dec 19 09:27:24 cool :D Dec 19 09:27:37 xeviox: simple as http://pastebin.mozilla.org/691739 Dec 19 09:27:37 I have searched for hours yesterday .. Dec 19 09:27:50 moo lcuk Dec 19 09:28:00 gavin: should I add it at the end of the file? Dec 19 09:28:03 hey RST38h Dec 19 09:28:15 slonopotamus: tar -xjvf Dec 19 09:28:20 xeviox: yes. good to confirm those lines don't already exist, but they shouldn't on a stock ubuntu 9.10 Dec 19 09:28:45 RST38h, you bein lazy today? Dec 19 09:30:03 gavin: have you added without the "vm."? Dec 19 09:30:43 no Dec 19 09:30:53 I added the lines exactly as they are in the pastebin Dec 19 09:31:39 rst38h, you're missing the point. fremantle busybox tar doesn't have -j. i already unpacked by piping bzcat | tar -x. Dec 19 09:32:06 nuke crappybox! Dec 19 09:32:33 I've added with "vm." and get the following error: error: "vm.vdso_enabled" is an unknown key / error: "vm.nmap_min_addr" is an unknown key Dec 19 09:32:39 or just build it less stripped Dec 19 09:32:56 xeviox: it's "vm.mmap_min_addr" Dec 19 09:33:00 "mmap", not "nmap" Dec 19 09:33:09 I recommend using copy/paste! :) Dec 19 09:33:21 k I'll retry ^ Dec 19 09:34:01 lcuk: not really, just doing a few housekeeping things Dec 19 09:34:04 slono: Oh. =( Dec 19 09:34:33 lcuk: Ready to start another "maemo.org admins suck" thread on tmo =( Dec 19 09:34:52 gavin: error "vm.vdso_enabled" is an unknown key Dec 19 09:34:53 start something better Dec 19 09:34:57 the admins are busy Dec 19 09:35:08 but seems that he have parsed "vm.mmap_min_addr = 4096" Dec 19 09:35:33 do you ever watch: http://www.qaiku.com/channels/show/maemork/ Dec 19 09:35:42 to see just what might be happening Dec 19 09:36:51 xeviox, the SDK 5 GUI installer happily sorts out all that stuff for a normal scratchbox install Dec 19 09:37:04 xeviox: here's my exact /etc/sysctl.conf: https://people.mozilla.com/~gavin/fennec/sysctl.conf Dec 19 09:37:06 if you have gone off the rails tho and tried a different way, not sure how much use it will be Dec 19 09:37:16 but that issue has been documented often Dec 19 09:37:36 it works really well on ubuntu 9.10 Dec 19 09:37:40 (i know cos i use it here) Dec 19 09:37:46 maybe the problem is related to my x64 ubuntu :( Dec 19 09:37:48 * gavin hasn't used the sdk 5 installer Dec 19 09:37:54 ewwww Dec 19 09:38:15 alas you're on your own on RPM based systems.AIUI Dec 19 09:38:28 last 2 lines looking the same in my file Dec 19 09:38:29 xeviox, i believe the installer should know something about it, but as a fallback i hear lots of x64 people just make a VM Dec 19 09:38:49 hmm Dec 19 09:38:57 will check a post I've found .. Dec 19 09:39:02 there is certainly a LOT of documentation about these kind of normal things Dec 19 09:39:09 around the sdk installation instructions Dec 19 09:39:28 lcuk: I can't start something better, because I need to push stuff into Extras Dec 19 09:39:47 http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Final_SDK_Installation Dec 19 09:39:52 RST38h, ditto Dec 19 09:39:57 k, I've to add a kernel boot parameter Dec 19 09:39:59 ^^ Dec 19 09:40:01 i just got liqtorch and liqflow into extras \o/ Dec 19 09:40:08 lcuk: And I fail to understand what admins are busy with, given that their primary goal of making maemo.org work is not accomplished Dec 19 09:40:08 and i pushed a whole new app to -testing last night Dec 19 09:40:09 will check the menu.lst file .. Dec 19 09:40:11 liqacceltests Dec 19 09:40:13 just getting worse Dec 19 09:40:21 which has all the funky stuff i normally play with accelerometer wise Dec 19 09:40:28 but has smoothed/unsmoothed Dec 19 09:40:31 to see difference Dec 19 09:40:32 lcuk: (VM) isn't there a ready built vmware or virtualbox image? Dec 19 09:40:50 DocScrutinizer51, there may be, but its always out of date Dec 19 09:41:00 and x64 folks are normally savvy enough to just DIY Dec 19 09:41:03 :-/ Dec 19 09:41:51 RST38h, i do see, and as an outside dev watching some projects i get equally frustrated Dec 19 09:41:56 <- reboot .. Dec 19 09:42:17 but those are the things, just because i know how to change a lightbulb on my car, i wouldnt second guess my mechanic :S Dec 19 09:42:51 lcuk: I do not think it can be qualified this way any longer Dec 19 09:43:27 lcuk: It is more like the mechanis who is supposed to be taking care of your car has not been doing it for weeks, citing "better things to do" Dec 19 09:43:35 hope it will work ^^ Dec 19 09:43:56 lcuk: I promoted 3 packages to Extas over the last couple of days. They have not appeared in Extras. Dec 19 09:43:58 YEAH Dec 19 09:44:04 o_O Dec 19 09:44:10 lcuk: I tried contacting XFade or jeremiah, but neither of them is available Dec 19 09:44:11 looks pretty good Dec 19 09:45:00 thats not good then Dec 19 09:45:15 lcuk: The library packages problem is responded with "We will not let you fix the problem because if you fix the problem yourself then nobody is going to fix it, ever" Dec 19 09:45:19 yeah installer downloads the files :D Dec 19 09:45:34 lcuk: Which is as close to bullshit as it can possibly get Dec 19 09:46:05 lcuk: The voting threshold that we agreed to lower to 5 1+ month ago, has not been lowered Dec 19 09:46:27 lcuk: With jeremiah saying that he does not want to change XFade's code and XFade citing "other things to do" Dec 19 09:46:39 lcuk: Mind you, it is most likely 1 (one) digit in some file. Dec 19 09:47:28 lcuk: Anyways, this is really getting out of hand Dec 19 09:47:50 :( Dec 19 09:48:08 i know x has had a massive backlog Dec 19 09:48:21 gavin: thanks for the help :) Dec 19 09:48:31 and have seen some things come through Dec 19 09:48:38 demotion worked, i got a load of mails Dec 19 09:50:53 err Dec 19 09:51:12 n900 doesn't have initfs? Dec 19 09:52:18 do I need the Nokia closed binaries? Dec 19 09:52:57 if you want an easier experience, yeah Dec 19 09:53:04 and no docs to boot n900 from sd? Dec 19 09:53:23 lcuk: easier experience? Dec 19 09:58:10 which editor can I use in scratchbox? Dec 19 09:58:28 and do I have to add the line on both targets? (x86 and arm) Dec 19 09:58:29 vi, nano Dec 19 09:59:00 or access the files from the host's GUI and use gedit or similar Dec 19 10:00:24 when I change it in scratchbox Dec 19 10:00:32 do I have to change it in both targets Dec 19 10:00:34 ? Dec 19 10:00:54 sorry, change what? Dec 19 10:01:08 * fnordianslip thinks of resolve.conf Dec 19 10:01:53 slonopotamus: btw, did you install a kernel with larger dmesg buffer so one can see an unabridged version? Dec 19 10:03:09 slonopotamus: also i think /proc/cmdline along with cat /proc/mtd, cat /proc/mounts and some stuff like that will tell you for sure if it boots from initfs or not. Dec 19 10:03:14 nice, etherpad open sourced http://tech.slashdot.org/story/09/12/19/0059221/Google-Open-Sources-Etherpad-Piratepad-Launches?art_pos=1 Dec 19 10:03:20 fnordianslip: I want to add the Nokia closed binaries, for that I should change a line in scratchbox, so do I have to change it on both targets? Dec 19 10:03:31 what file? Dec 19 10:04:06 /etc/apt/sources.list Dec 19 10:04:15 ah, yep. both targets Dec 19 10:04:29 k thanks :D Dec 19 10:06:16 so am I ready now?? :D Dec 19 10:06:56 * lcuk stands back Dec 19 10:07:10 does scratchbox come with a compiler? Dec 19 10:07:21 scratchbox doesnt Dec 19 10:07:30 but a compiler is one of the principle things in your target Dec 19 10:08:08 cross-compiler Dec 19 10:08:14 ah k Dec 19 10:08:42 so if I get it right I have to code on my host and then save all files on the specific target and compile it there? Dec 19 10:09:42 your scratchbox home folder is shared between targets, so put a project in their, and it will be accessible from both x86 and armel target systems Dec 19 10:09:52 there, even Dec 19 10:10:21 so, build it for x86, debug it, switch target to armel, build it again, then deploy on device Dec 19 10:10:40 ah ok Dec 19 10:11:03 and when I want to use qt for example I have to put it in the home folder too, and then compile it for both? Dec 19 10:11:10 or just use armel mode and make full use of scp and ssh Dec 19 10:11:29 or skip the x86 bit and go straight for the device install. debuggers are for girls :) Dec 19 10:11:41 ^^ Dec 19 10:12:11 *cough* Dec 19 10:12:27 * lcuk waves @ Myrtti \o Dec 19 10:12:33 sneeze. although gdb is quite manly Dec 19 10:12:49 fnordianslip, you fixed the wrong thing Dec 19 10:13:09 i haven'r fixed anything, guvnor Dec 19 10:13:17 can't spell today Dec 19 10:13:23 what? Dec 19 10:14:04 you mean my sexist comment ^^ Dec 19 10:15:04 * RST38h moos at Myrtti Dec 19 10:16:18 don't worry, I've given up on educating idiots that geekyness and female gender can overlap. It's a futile battle anyway Dec 19 10:16:56 RST38h: moo Dec 19 10:17:03 sorry. i believe you. force of habit though. Dec 19 10:18:55 are you developing in pure c for maemo? Dec 19 10:21:06 xeviox, i am, yeah Dec 19 10:21:23 eek. I prefer C++ Dec 19 10:21:36 or ython Dec 19 10:21:40 with a p Dec 19 10:21:43 i would too, but compilation time on the device is a limiting factor Dec 19 10:21:52 and i needed a library which can be used by any language Dec 19 10:22:13 ah yes. you still deving on the N900 lcuk? Dec 19 10:22:23 not at the moment Dec 19 10:22:41 the scratchbox on my laptop seems to work for now for things Dec 19 10:22:57 and ive reverted to scp ssh Dec 19 10:23:24 much faster I expect. i used to build stuff on my NSLU2 and it took forever. distcc helped Dec 19 10:23:29 nahh Dec 19 10:23:32 my stuff is small and light Dec 19 10:23:38 1 or 2 small modules Dec 19 10:23:44 linked to small libliqbase runtime Dec 19 10:23:48 its not heavy at all Dec 19 10:24:18 * fnordianslip would like an optified build system for target Dec 19 10:24:22 if i have to rebuild everything, then yeah its a bit longer, but thats just a reminder to cook bacon otr something Dec 19 10:24:53 fnordianslip, http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=434257&postcount=21 Dec 19 10:24:54 would be awesome to be able to have both 3g and wlan up at the same time, would make testing a lot easier ;P Dec 19 10:25:07 frals, usbnet Dec 19 10:25:07 some compile jobs took > 12 hours on my NSLU2 Dec 19 10:25:15 well thats just sick Dec 19 10:25:45 build to capabilities Dec 19 10:26:10 cheers lcuk, ill have a look at that Dec 19 10:26:25 init=/sbin/preinit ubi.mtd=rootfs root=ubi0:rootfs rootfstype=ubifs rootflags=bulk_read,no_chk_data_crc rw console=ttyMTD,log console=tty0 Dec 19 10:26:34 so it ignores initfs? Dec 19 10:27:34 * lcuk is goin bowling soon Dec 19 10:27:41 gonna get ass kicked by the kids as usual Dec 19 10:28:23 oh bowling is awesome :) Dec 19 10:28:53 its normally "roll the ball down the gutter for a couple of hours" Dec 19 10:29:34 at least you have a choice of gutters Dec 19 10:30:02 * RST38h agrees with lcuk Dec 19 10:30:28 slonopotamus: so it uses ubi0:rootfs as a root partition. Dec 19 10:30:32 Pointless. But at least lcuk will have his tablet to program on =) Dec 19 10:31:16 slonopotamus: no idea if there's a special initfs mtd partition in there or not. It should be easy for you to find out. Dec 19 10:32:00 cat /proc/mtd says mtd4 Dec 19 10:32:35 paulfertset, there is. Dec 19 10:32:54 but why if it isn't used? Dec 19 10:33:35 slonopotamus: if you used tab completion, you'd match my nick ;) Dec 19 10:33:49 stskeeps, ping Dec 19 10:33:59 slonopotamus: sorry, no idea. The community in here seems to have no control or understanding of such low-level decisions. Dec 19 10:34:25 paulfertser, if there was tab on n900, i would definitely use it. Dec 19 10:34:28 I see that having too many themes installed will fill your r00t :) Dec 19 10:34:42 stskeeps, ping Dec 19 10:34:52 http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/tees/8421789.stm Dec 19 10:34:56 slonopotamus: O_o i thought maemo guys always knew how to use x-chat the best possible way Dec 19 10:34:58 damn cats Dec 19 10:35:45 PaulFertser, the community here generally dont need to deal with such low level decisions Dec 19 10:35:56 lcuk: swallowing a crucifix would probably be a much bigger problem though Dec 19 10:36:04 * RST38h cackles Dec 19 10:36:16 slonopotamus: do you know that ubi volumes are somewhat like LVM, so it's of interest to use some ubi utility to list all of the container contents etc. Dec 19 10:36:27 * RST38h looks for the TAB key on his N900 Dec 19 10:36:29 anyone seen my baccy Dec 19 10:36:38 with a xmas tree, i guess there's a right way, and a wrong way to, er, pass it through :) Dec 19 10:36:44 lcuk: well, i'm sure it's not true since for multi-boot tweaking initfs on n8x0 was an easy and decent approach. Dec 19 10:37:04 paultfertser, /proc/mtd lists them Dec 19 10:37:10 lcuk: also kernel config options are essential and are often needed to be tweaked by the community too. Dec 19 10:37:24 lcuk: mer has a modified n810 kernel for a reason. Dec 19 10:37:33 argh Dec 19 10:37:55 slonopotamus: i think one ubi container takes all the mtdX space. And then it can have several ubifs "volumes" inside it. Dec 19 10:37:59 maemo != mer though. "users" generally dont care about such nonesense Dec 19 10:38:13 lcuk: since when multibooting is a nonsence? Dec 19 10:38:47 since its impractical Dec 19 10:38:55 "oooh i must reboot to run my spreadsheet" Dec 19 10:39:06 "ahhh damn i have to switch off just to play a game" Dec 19 10:39:22 Booting any device at any given time is impractical :) Dec 19 10:39:36 yeah cant brag about uptime when you have to reboot all the time :) Dec 19 10:39:36 hi guys.. am wondering how i can add msn and yahoo support to the default chat IM on the N900 ( googling didnt help much ) Dec 19 10:39:43 What kind of a linux user would want to reboot... except when upgrading kernel Dec 19 10:39:47 lcuk: it becomes a necessity if you're using a device that has an insane distro by default and enough proprietary crap to make running a sane distro full-time impractical. Dec 19 10:40:03 now once mer gets happy and comfortable and at the flashing stage i can choose "marmo5 fremantle / mer" Dec 19 10:40:05 i will be happy Dec 19 10:40:13 its not insane tho Dec 19 10:40:38 lcuk: 01:44 < hrw> PaulFertser: since when maemo is sane distro? Dec 19 10:40:47 lcuk: i think he should know better, right? ;) Dec 19 10:42:06 indeed, hrw knows what he says and hacks on the device, but is also giving constructive critism and trying to use his device as is and filing bugs Dec 19 10:42:55 ok I think i would need to install some telepathy plugins which all seem to be in testing.. hmm guess i will stict to pidgin for now Dec 19 10:43:32 kulve: Ping. Dec 19 10:43:35 lcuk: it's hard for me to give a constructive criticism given an insane development process, especially since i'm low-level-minded guy and maemo has no control whatsoever over hardware, kernel, bootloader and other low-level stuff. Dec 19 10:46:41 btw load-module module-alsa-sink-old sink_name=sink.hw0 device=hw:0 rate=48000 fragment_size=1920 fragments=4 alt_fragment_size=960 alt_fragments=2 Dec 19 10:47:06 derf: pong Dec 19 10:47:39 kulve: I wanted to look at packaging the DSP Theora decoder. Dec 19 10:47:50 However, there's a problem. Dec 19 10:48:00 I didn't know such thing exists.. Dec 19 10:48:26 http://www.schleef.org/blog/2009/11/11/theora-on-ti-c64x-dsp-and-omap3/ Dec 19 10:48:32 slonopotamus: (tab) I remapped that to shift-right for xchat here Dec 19 10:49:05 so, initfs isn't used at all. i wonder why it exists then. Dec 19 10:49:16 derf: ah, I actually I did read that.. Dec 19 10:49:24 derf: so, what's the problem? Dec 19 10:49:25 The problem is that, in the version of gstreamer currently being used, gst's oggdemux creates _two_ decoders for each stream. Dec 19 10:49:41 The first one being used solely by the demuxer to convert timestamps. Dec 19 10:50:22 Normally that just wastes some RAM, but when your codec is actually on the DSP, this is significantly more costly. Dec 19 10:51:00 This little bit of braindamage is fixed in git, but requires updates to all of the Ogg codecs. Dec 19 10:51:09 d'oh! http://www.boingboing.net/2009/12/17/led-traffic-lights-d.html Dec 19 10:51:56 derf: are the ogg codecs fixed already as well? Dec 19 10:52:02 Yes. Dec 19 10:52:44 derf: so, you want me to recompile them with the patches and push new versions to fremantle repositories? Dec 19 10:53:02 That would be most helpful. Dec 19 10:53:38 I just tried to push new version with flac tag support, but I'm getting mostly "server timed out" messages from the server.. Dec 19 10:53:44 server, i.e. garage Dec 19 10:54:08 fnordianslip, i read that too, but its not really different to regular signs getting whitewashed Dec 19 10:54:12 Yes, the server's a dying in a thousand uninteresting ways. Dec 19 10:54:43 derf: could you create bug reports with patches to e.g. bugs.maemo.org to ogg-support product? That way I could easily see what I need to upgrade and keep track of things? Dec 19 10:54:43 lcuk: yep, but they didn't change the design of the signs Dec 19 10:55:02 derf: or just send me a mail with the patches..? Dec 19 10:55:04 traffic light shape is still obviously traffic light Dec 19 10:55:08 and if you are following rules Dec 19 10:55:12 htey default to a stop sign Dec 19 10:55:20 when not working Dec 19 10:55:29 Actually, looking at the git log, there's been a _lot_ of changes to the Ogg stuff in gst recently. Dec 19 10:55:37 lcuk: still, if they were "required" to operate in snowy conditions, it wouldn't have happened. Dec 19 10:55:54 derf: I heard. There's e.g. stuff for proper tag parsing Dec 19 10:56:01 Yeah, crazy. Dec 19 10:57:02 derf: I can't upgrade Nokia's gst core components, I can just upgrade e.g. oggdemux etc. But if the latest oggdemux doesn't work with the older Nokia's base components, then there's a problem Dec 19 10:57:19 kulve: Right. I have no idea if that's the case or not. Dec 19 10:58:02 derf: I can try to do some testing during the xmas holidays, if you could send the patches/file the bug reports. Dec 19 10:58:15 patches against head Dec 19 10:58:20 Okay. I'm looking through git to try to find the relevant commit now. Dec 19 10:58:34 I'll see what I can come up with. Dec 19 10:58:44 kulve: Against head of what? Dec 19 10:58:52 if the patches are already in the upstream, then I don't need any patches, I'll just take the latest versions Dec 19 10:59:17 is someone familiar with remapping the hw keys on the n900? Dec 19 10:59:18 slonopotamus_: have you looked inside the initfs already? What does it look like? Dec 19 10:59:29 but I'm a bit doubtful that it will go smoothly.. Dec 19 11:00:07 BluesLee: Dec 19 11:00:07 I saw a webpage Dec 19 11:00:15 scaramouch scaramouch Dec 19 11:00:22 kulve: Nothing ever does. Dec 19 11:00:41 But yes, the changes are already committed to gst-plugins-base. Dec 19 11:00:46 argh Dec 19 11:00:48 err Dec 19 11:00:48 http://www.natisbad.org/N900/n900-keyboard-remapping.html Dec 19 11:00:56 BluesLee: Dec 19 11:00:56 derf: bbiam Dec 19 11:00:58 You can tell because the function gst_ogg_pad_typefind no longer exists in gstoggdemux.c Dec 19 11:01:29 and how i mount mtd device? :) Dec 19 11:01:56 there isn't any /dev/mtdblk* Dec 19 11:02:32 only /dev/mtdN Dec 19 11:03:40 slonopotamus_: if it's ubi, then it should work the ubi way with mtdN Dec 19 11:04:13 'the ubi way'? Dec 19 11:04:34 ah, i'll look at root= from kernel cmdline Dec 19 11:04:41 SpeedEvil: i saw that page .. i will try to remap after backuping the orig file Dec 19 11:05:33 SpeedEvil: i want the the arrow keys directly as for the english kbd + additional keys by using fn and shift Dec 19 11:06:42 daamn Dec 19 11:06:51 derf: you said that this needs changes in "all the Ogg codecs". Do you mean the libraries as well, or the gst plugins using the libraries? Dec 19 11:06:58 why n900 wifi so weaker than n800? :( Dec 19 11:07:03 BluesLee: /me has no clue - I need to try that at some point. Dec 19 11:07:05 kulve: Just in the gst plugins using the libraries. Dec 19 11:08:22 SpeedEvil: it doesnt look hard, i will give you some feedback in some minutes Dec 19 11:09:41 bash: af-sb-init.sh: command not found ??? Dec 19 11:11:01 derf: vorbis, theora, oggdemux comes from the gst-plugins-base and the flac comes from the gst-plugins-good. And these are now changed in the GIT? Do you have any idea, if it the new plugins work with the older gst libraries and base plugins..? Dec 19 11:11:05 I want to start the ui framework .. Dec 19 11:11:13 but it couldn't find it ? Dec 19 11:11:38 kulve: My understand is tha these have been changed in git. Dec 19 11:11:43 Good luck. Dec 19 11:11:49 I do not know if they work with older gst libraries. Dec 19 11:11:57 *understanding Dec 19 11:12:08 Perhaps #gstreamer would know? Dec 19 11:12:14 do I have to setup something special to have this script? Dec 19 11:14:42 seems to need the nokia binaries which were not setup correctly Dec 19 11:14:42 derf: how does the theora dsp stuff work? There's a separate gst plugin using directly the dsp bridge to communicate with the theora dsp decoder? Dec 19 11:15:10 kulve: Right now, it works as a drop-in replacement for libtheora. Dec 19 11:15:40 derf: ok. I guess that's convenient. No need for a separate gst plugin Dec 19 11:15:50 That was part of the idea. Dec 19 11:15:57 derf: where's the upstream for the dsp libtheora? Dec 19 11:16:02 http://code.entropywave.com/git?p=ew-leonora-beagle-demo.git;a=summary Dec 19 11:16:08 that contains something but I'm not sure what.. Dec 19 11:16:28 If you dig through that, you'll actually find it downloads the code from three other git repositories to build it. Dec 19 11:16:58 http://code.entropywave.com/git?p=ogg-c64x.git;a=summary Dec 19 11:17:04 do you know if the license of that is something that can be redistributed? Dec 19 11:17:05 http://code.entropywave.com/git?p=theora-c64x.git;a=summary Dec 19 11:17:11 http://code.entropywave.com/git?p=leonora.git;a=summary Dec 19 11:17:17 Yes, it can. Dec 19 11:17:35 You'll find commits in there from me, as well. Dec 19 11:19:02 SpeedEvil: works Dec 19 11:19:18 :) Dec 19 11:21:18 derf: is there any downsides in using the DSP compared to the "normal" libtheora? Dec 19 11:21:33 SpeedEvil: i think the entries in rx-51 work like direct acces-shift-fn-shift+fn Dec 19 11:22:18 kulve: It's more limited in the size of the streams it can decode right now. Dec 19 11:22:40 Because it uses a fixed heap size. Dec 19 11:22:59 Ah, finally found the commit. Dec 19 11:23:04 http://cgit.freedesktop.org/gstreamer/gst-plugins-base/commit/?id=72edd1467bcb5040d1e89e782fc46059743e8646 Dec 19 11:23:09 derf: I'm wondering if there will be more problems than benefits from switching to DSP version Dec 19 11:23:16 Thanks for the helpful log message, ds. Dec 19 11:24:01 kulve: I'm not suggesting replacing it outright in ogg-support yet. Dec 19 11:24:22 i have some problems running frozen-bubble and mame Dec 19 11:24:40 But I need something I can test. Dec 19 11:24:48 derf: has somebody tested that on n900 already..? Dec 19 11:24:57 kulve: I have. Dec 19 11:25:00 But not in gstreamer. Dec 19 11:25:26 The next steps start requiring changes to the gstreamer theora plugin. Dec 19 11:25:39 E.g., to output directly to the display device. Dec 19 11:25:48 Like the other DSP codecs do. Dec 19 11:25:59 do they? Dec 19 11:26:09 they used to, but I thought they are now using the normal XV? Dec 19 11:26:22 http://www.flickr.com/photos/tigert/4197270996/ Dec 19 11:26:57 Hmm, really? Dec 19 11:27:02 Where did you see that? Dec 19 11:27:13 SpeedEvil: http://pastebin.ca/1720295 Dec 19 11:31:35 pp Dec 19 11:31:39 derf: e.g. "gst-launch videotestsrc ! xvimagesink" works just fine Dec 19 11:32:05 on 770 nokia rendered video directly to hw but that cause quite many issues. Like menus getting below the video etc. Dec 19 11:32:19 kulve: That's not the same thing as what I said. Dec 19 11:32:32 videotestsrc is not a dsp codec. Dec 19 11:32:35 sure Dec 19 11:32:42 I'm not saying xv doesn't _work. Dec 19 11:32:46 *_work_ Dec 19 11:32:53 I'm saying it's inefficient. Dec 19 11:34:02 /GstPlayBin2:playbin20/GstPlaySink:playsink0/GstBin:vbin/GstAutoVideoSink:videosink/GstXvImageSink:videosink-actual-sink-xvimage.GstPad:sink: caps = video/x-raw-yuv, format=(fourcc)UYVY, width=(int)800, height=(int)480, framerate=(fraction)2997/125 Dec 19 11:34:15 that's a line from the "gst-launch -v playbin2 uri=file:///home/user/MyDocs/.videos/9.mp4" output Dec 19 11:34:27 The problem is, when you finish decoding on the DSP side, in order for the host to read back the data and copy it to Xv, it has to invalidate its caches. Dec 19 11:34:59 I'm seeing it spend something like 25% of all decoding time in the kernel call to do that invalidation. Dec 19 11:35:05 Which is insane. Dec 19 11:35:50 This is why I thought all the other dsp codecs wrote directly to display memory themselves. Dec 19 11:36:02 (or rather, was told) Dec 19 11:36:17 then downsides might be bigger than the performance gain.. Dec 19 11:36:19 AFAICT there's no source for any of them, so it's impossible to say. Dec 19 11:37:00 well, there's source code for the xvimagesink. Adding some debugs there probably tells quite a lot? Dec 19 11:37:06 or just enabling them Dec 19 11:37:32 it's clearly using the gst's xvimagesink for something when playing the mp4 video Dec 19 11:38:07 I suspect that's deceptive. Dec 19 11:38:11 I don't :) Dec 19 11:38:18 but I need get going now. bbl. Dec 19 11:39:06 Partly because the code in gst-dsp to do the cache invalidation is broken, and has always been broken. Dec 19 11:39:57 So if they were really using it, you should be able to see visible artifacts. Dec 19 11:44:36 decode and stream the video to your desktop? Dec 19 11:45:00 well, I don't know enough about the issue.. Dec 19 11:45:15 but I believe they are using XV until I'm proven otherwise :) Dec 19 11:45:42 Okay. I'll continue to believe what I was told by gst developers. Dec 19 11:46:00 meh, anyone know if any updates are incoming to the browser flash component? youtube/etc flash stream videos are unwatchable (2 seconds per frame with fluent sound on he back) Dec 19 11:48:06 derf: I'm sure there's an easy way to test it.. Dec 19 11:48:41 tigert: how to use maemo geo location :P Dec 19 11:48:43 on google maps Dec 19 11:49:12 derf: is the issue showing it from the host side or getting it to the host side? If the latter, then streaming video to your PC should tell something? Dec 19 11:49:16 chmod doesnt seem to work here, very odd! Dec 19 11:49:32 BluesLee: never works on fat filesystems Dec 19 11:49:40 kulve: It should be the latter. Dec 19 11:49:50 I don't know what "streaming video to your PC" means. Dec 19 11:50:17 valdyn: right, i should move it to root Dec 19 11:50:19 decode -> encapsulate to rtp -> udpsink -> network -> udpsource -> rtpdemux -> decode -> xvimagesink Dec 19 11:50:33 but now I'm really gone Dec 19 11:50:45 BluesLee: /opt Dec 19 11:50:46 valdyn: nevertheless there should be some feedback or warning Dec 19 11:51:57 I don't think rtp could stream decoded video at the speeds the N900 is capable of. Dec 19 11:52:06 valdyn: thanks Dec 19 11:52:39 derf: first decode should have been "encode" Dec 19 11:53:28 Aren't all the encoders dsp-side? Dec 19 11:53:36 I'm not sure how that proves anything. Dec 19 11:55:17 hmm.. yeah. It wouldn'e be the same. Well, decode and use filesink :) Dec 19 12:11:22 slonopotamus: http://www.linux-mtd.infradead.org/faq/ubifs.html#L_mount_ubifs Dec 19 12:21:37 striiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiike Dec 19 12:49:09 red: youtube works ok for me Dec 19 12:49:11 or did Dec 19 12:49:13 * SpeedEvil checks Dec 19 12:52:26 I get >8fps Dec 19 12:54:21 It's not as smooth as on the desktop - but it's _way_ better than 2fps Dec 19 13:01:52 otoh - 'hd' is lots more jerky - down to as low as 3ishfps - on high move scenes Dec 19 13:02:36 scored a CP-321 :-) Dec 19 13:03:45 a nice case, but I think I have to practice getting the phone out of it quickly to answer calls :-P Dec 19 13:12:43 lol - flashfail. Dec 19 13:13:08 flash 'hd' from youtube - in flash player - ~4fps Dec 19 13:13:14 mplayer - ~50 Dec 19 13:13:32 SpeedEvil, lol Dec 19 13:14:20 no one has ever doubted that flash sucks Dec 19 13:14:42 except maybe Adobe Dec 19 13:14:48 but I doubt it Dec 19 13:16:12 I hadn't expected it to be quite that bad though. Dec 19 13:17:21 Heres to hoping HTML5 will get rid of the shiz Dec 19 13:19:53 SpeedEvil, that on device? Dec 19 13:21:23 yes Dec 19 13:21:28 using mplayer from extras-devel? Dec 19 13:21:31 yes Dec 19 13:22:00 * SpeedEvil checks the file was actually the same Dec 19 13:22:07 Try benchmark with this binary: http://enivax.net/jk/mplayer-n900/01/mplayer.gz Dec 19 13:22:11 for more lulz Dec 19 13:22:28 it actually has some neon Dec 19 13:22:55 tigert: the cutest effect is when the js idle suspension hits, and the bubble replays your route when you look at it the next time ;) Dec 19 13:23:20 ha Dec 19 13:23:21 https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6877 Dec 19 13:23:23 Bug 6877: Pin / lock code entry dialog reveals digits on backspace Dec 19 13:23:26 that's in Diablo too Dec 19 13:23:26 yes - same file Dec 19 13:26:55 help what can i do to stop the kids beating me @ bowling Dec 19 13:27:32 lol Dec 19 13:27:40 ShadowJK: dependancy problems - speex Dec 19 13:27:41 hit em in the head with the ball "accidently" Dec 19 13:27:46 lcukn900: more beer Dec 19 13:28:07 SpeedEvil, yeah that's a bit odd, it was installed by default in the maemo5sdk vm image :) Dec 19 13:28:07 prolly more Dec 19 13:28:13 i have to drive back, perhaps thats the prob Dec 19 13:28:28 apt-get install libspeex1 worked for me Dec 19 13:28:31 alternatively, give the kids bear Dec 19 13:28:33 beer* Dec 19 13:28:47 :P Dec 19 13:28:55 haha Dec 19 13:28:57 the rest of the dependencies looked rather sane Dec 19 13:29:50 termana thats a rly great idea Dec 19 13:29:56 I should try build another one with teh screen-blanking prevention patch too Dec 19 13:30:22 hello everyone Dec 19 13:31:19 heya wazd Dec 19 13:31:38 wazd, how is marina coming along btw? Dec 19 13:32:18 SpeedEvil, anyway, with the N900 video that was included on the device, my mplayer build benchmarked approx 20% faster than the one in extras-devel ;-) Dec 19 13:32:36 Stskeeps, my netbook is too weak to work with its template unfortunately Dec 19 13:32:39 The downside is that it's unbuildable with the standard sdk Dec 19 13:37:08 wazd_n800: ick, okay - will live with what i have atm Dec 19 13:40:44 Stskeeps, I'll compile new version with various bugfixes on monday Dec 19 13:42:40 thanks Dec 19 13:44:29 * SpeedEvil wants to setup on device building anyway Dec 19 13:48:40 SpeedEvil, if you get it working, please let me know, or at least post it on the forums - I've been wanting to do that, but haven't had the time to figure it out Dec 19 13:48:43 * jaem yawns Dec 19 13:48:47 night, #maemo Dec 19 13:49:24 jaem: "" Dec 19 13:49:26 night Dec 19 13:53:09 Stskeeps, there are some problems with mer ui designing, caused by low-res portrait screens :) Dec 19 13:53:32 Stskeeps, but I'm working on that) Dec 19 13:53:47 wazd_n800: yeah, portrsait is a bitch Dec 19 13:57:01 portrait even Stskeeps? Dec 19 14:00:38 Stskeeps, but I'm sure I'll solve it Dec 19 14:00:54 Stskeeps, that's an interesting task) Dec 19 14:04:32 How many hours does someone usually charge a phone when they first get it? Dec 19 14:05:08 how can I prevent apt-get to install apps onto /root partition and instead use /home? Root fills up after I install a couple of apps Dec 19 14:05:26 rashed2020: it's charged soewhat whren it comes Dec 19 14:05:53 SpeedEvil: So all that "Charge for 8 hours the first time" stuff is all old news? Dec 19 14:06:57 rashed2020: Pretty much. Dec 19 14:06:57 Especially as it should in anyt case be fully charged after a couple of hours at most Dec 19 14:07:12 Great. Dec 19 14:07:22 I just got an N900 I'm so excited. Dec 19 14:07:42 rashed2020, \o/ Dec 19 14:07:44 have fun Dec 19 14:08:04 Oh I will!! Dec 19 14:08:09 I have so much planned for it. Dec 19 14:13:49 the "charge for 24 hours" or whatever was only ever valid with NIMH batteries Dec 19 14:13:58 ahh, bluetooth tethering works like a charm :) Dec 19 14:36:21 took a moment to figure it out and im not sure if the app from extras-devel (just installed it but didnt run it I think, unless its automatic) Dec 19 14:38:25 ? Dec 19 14:40:36 bad day here Dec 19 14:40:40 no work done Dec 19 14:41:18 isn't it saturday? Dec 19 14:41:48 * pupnik checks Dec 19 14:42:04 yup Dec 19 14:42:07 RST38h, that's why no work's done :;D Dec 19 14:42:09 * SpeedEvil checks 4chan. Dec 19 14:42:13 yup. Dec 19 14:42:57 is *.maemo.org down yet? another sign it's weekend Dec 19 14:43:10 :D Dec 19 14:43:20 usb tethering latency still not that great :) Dec 19 14:44:08 do you mean usb adds latency? Dec 19 14:44:20 meh Dec 19 14:44:26 ment to say bluetooth, not usb :) Dec 19 14:44:37 bt tether latency is higher than usb is what i ment Dec 19 14:44:44 not a big surprise there though Dec 19 14:45:11 250ms -> 400ms ping Dec 19 14:45:37 woot Dec 19 14:45:53 oh that's pretty bad :) Dec 19 14:46:15 that constantly or just for first ping? Dec 19 14:46:25 what about ping -i 0.5? Dec 19 14:46:26 pingtest Dec 19 14:46:47 what would be the best path to a user-friendly maemo5 key remapper? Dec 19 14:46:57 pupnik: write one? Dec 19 14:47:35 use xmodmap or modify hildon map file? Dec 19 14:47:51 thats not an answer btw SpeedEvil Dec 19 14:48:14 you dont always have to type something Dec 19 14:48:58 I do. Dec 19 14:49:12 If I let ten lines go by without an answer, I get an electric shock. Dec 19 14:49:32 More seriously, I'm trying to avoid finishing my floor insulation. Dec 19 14:49:39 * SpeedEvil gets his saw. Dec 19 14:52:05 over bluetooth: http://www.speedtest.net/result/657263876.png Dec 19 14:52:09 over usb: http://www.speedtest.net/result/657267966.png Dec 19 14:52:13 @ ShadowJK Dec 19 14:52:35 yes, well, speedtest claims my 1mbit connection is 5mbit. Dec 19 14:53:03 might be a shittily configured speedtest server Dec 19 14:53:10 for me its given quite real results Dec 19 14:53:43 but you can also feel the difference when its that big =) Dec 19 14:54:03 hm Dec 19 15:06:19 I hope the Bluetooth tethering performance gets better Dec 19 15:06:42 but atleast it works now so I can use it for quick connection when needed Dec 19 15:07:09 I have three dial up connections up on my PC now, for 1 more week :D Dec 19 15:07:18 1.7mpbs \,,\ Dec 19 15:08:07 fast connection -> browser, 2nd fastest -> torrents, slowest -> irc :D Dec 19 15:08:50 wgfet to keren Dec 19 15:09:00 wget to kernel.org works ok Dec 19 15:11:04 Do the lights at the top stay a certain color when the phone is done charging? Dec 19 15:11:30 red, I download torrents on a server, split into 50 pieces, and download one piece at a time on multiple connections ;) Dec 19 15:13:11 * timeless_mbp sighs Dec 19 15:13:22 do we have someone who deals w/ bloggers? Dec 19 15:13:23 http://www.symbianoasis.com/2009/12/nokia-n900-mozilla-firefox.html Dec 19 15:13:26 seems like spam Dec 19 15:13:33 it has a picture of an n810 Dec 19 15:13:42 a link to a os2007 repo Dec 19 15:13:50 and a title relating to the n900 Dec 19 15:14:30 only if its on pl.m.o i guess Dec 19 15:14:59 ShadowJK: I could utilize a server too, but theres some memory problems atm so Im only ircing thru it now Dec 19 15:15:15 too much work to make new screen and reload torrents every day due crashesh :p Dec 19 15:15:27 lol Dec 19 15:15:39 sysadmin is somewhere in germany until new year Dec 19 15:15:53 and the other guys cba to troubleshoot :) Dec 19 15:16:19 hehe Dec 19 15:16:23 free use for me so cant really complain, and been that way for 9 years ^^ Dec 19 15:16:54 the reason I still use it is that its located at one ISP's server room, so the connection is really good Dec 19 15:17:01 I had a nic/saunalahti shell for 5 years and then they just kicked me off without warning and the customer support people were like "huh, unix, what's that" Dec 19 15:17:01 when the hardware works stable enuff :p Dec 19 15:17:19 * ShadowJK even paid for it! Dec 19 15:17:23 gg Dec 19 15:19:27 other issues are the few users apart from me not cleaning up their download directories Dec 19 15:19:38 then I go and remove old video torrents :p Dec 19 15:19:57 like diskspace was endless pff! Dec 19 15:21:42 does the n900 normally ignore when you tell the gps to turn off? Dec 19 15:22:34 how are you telling it to turn the GPS off? Dec 19 15:22:55 I am stamping on the corner of it Dec 19 15:23:12 unchecking enable in the gps dialog Dec 19 15:23:24 is network positioning also turned off? Dec 19 15:23:35 yes Dec 19 15:23:46 ml-N900: it will still report cached position I think Dec 19 15:23:54 hmm Dec 19 15:23:58 ah well Dec 19 15:24:06 does it ever report "Lost" ? Dec 19 15:24:21 * SpeedEvil sees what happens when you disable gps and start maps. Dec 19 15:24:38 yeah - pops up a box, and shows last known location Dec 19 15:24:40 the mapping program says "Get Lost!" ? Dec 19 15:25:52 almost time for to take my N900 on a tour of the world Dec 19 15:26:26 is it me, or does maps break the normal UI paradigms? Dec 19 15:26:48 in terms of the top bar Dec 19 15:26:48 its written by nokia, so its not subject to the UI design rules, ha ha Dec 19 15:27:02 one rule for garage and another for nokia Dec 19 15:27:52 can you get a GPS fix from insite an airplane? Dec 19 15:27:57 often, yes Dec 19 15:28:00 n900 just did an instant-off here while typing in terminal Dec 19 15:28:05 some windows however are coated so you can't Dec 19 15:28:16 is the battery flat ? Dec 19 15:28:26 full. just fyi Dec 19 15:28:57 i am messing with stuff though Dec 19 15:30:57 what does the little webcam icon do Dec 19 15:31:19 with the "rec".. screen record? Dec 19 15:31:42 think its added by the cpu onitor/screenshot prog Dec 19 15:32:24 it screencasts Dec 19 15:32:27 or is purported to. Dec 19 15:32:32 I've never tried it Dec 19 15:32:34 screencasts Dec 19 15:33:14 I think it would be quite reasonable to have a few key shortcuts: double ctrl-BS = switch back to last task. On dashboard move a 'curser' with the arrow keys, select with spacer or enter. Generally maemo should be usable even without poinerdevice/touchscreen Dec 19 15:34:41 SpeedEvil: it actually creates screencastXY.avi files in .videos. Alas with black screen here Dec 19 15:34:50 here too Dec 19 15:39:22 "unable to connect to one or more accounts" - not a helpful error message Dec 19 15:40:14 sympthom of the 'it's for dummies' attitude Dec 19 15:40:49 NOKIA: we all can read manpages! Dec 19 15:42:50 we even could learn to set locale correctly Dec 19 15:43:35 Hardly Dec 19 15:44:08 The vast majority of Maemo users don't know what a manpage is, let alone how to read one. Dec 19 15:49:52 The rest of us wouldn't want manpages on our device, wasting precious / space. Dec 19 15:50:52 GAN: Quick question: how do I become a package maintainer nowadays? Who has to approve my request? Dec 19 15:51:37 need optified manpages ;) Dec 19 15:51:44 they could even live in MyDocs, I think Dec 19 15:51:51 RST38h, dunno Dec 19 15:51:59 DocScrutinizer51: locale doesn't work anyway Dec 19 15:52:00 derf: aha. Not speaking for all of the rest of us Dec 19 15:52:09 so i don't see what you're angling after Dec 19 15:52:12 ShadowJK: Most new N900 users seem to be unable to read, so I think it makes no difference Dec 19 15:52:17 manpages, no manpages... Dec 19 15:52:27 timeless_mbp: that's exactly my point Dec 19 15:52:38 Really, these days people Google for manpages. Dec 19 15:52:39 i mean outside scope:maemo Dec 19 15:54:21 derf: btw. this is a internet tablet. I'm sure you need no help to figure how to read manpages even when they're not stored on your precious 32GB Dec 19 15:54:40 I'm not the one who has a problem reading manpages. Dec 19 15:55:14 fsck' my first linux system had a HD not even EWGB Dec 19 15:55:21 32GB Dec 19 15:55:49 And I never said anything about 32GB, I said /, which is 256MB. Dec 19 15:56:02 and you bet there was plenty of room for manpages Dec 19 15:56:20 And given that all these useless locales were dumped on /, I wouldn't hold out much hope for Nokia getting manpages in the right place. Dec 19 15:57:37 lol Dec 19 15:58:07 * ShadowJK wonders if qt4 is in / or /opt Dec 19 15:59:00 DocScrutinizer51: sometimes you want to read the manpage of exactly the version you have on device. And sometimes you need to read the damn pages exactly to be able to go online :) Dec 19 15:59:31 Now to decide if it's worth fighting with garage today, or to just give up. Dec 19 16:00:07 I must say the outages and horrendous performance has done a great job of killing my motivation. Dec 19 16:00:27 derf: ack Dec 19 16:00:36 incredible Dec 19 16:01:06 * PaulFertser keeps "the community" joke for himself Dec 19 16:01:13 derf: btw have you notice that you can no longe purge the locales on n900? Dec 19 16:01:27 RST38h: Purge? Dec 19 16:01:29 What's wrong with rm? Dec 19 16:01:36 derf: ah, you have not noticed yet? Dec 19 16:01:39 Nope. Dec 19 16:02:02 derf: all the locales are cached in some huge multi-MB file, tools for managing which are not available Dec 19 16:02:14 That's awesome. Dec 19 16:02:31 Good job all around. Dec 19 16:02:38 bloat! Dec 19 16:03:01 In the minds of nokia engineers, indeed. Dec 19 16:03:05 wow Dec 19 16:03:19 Hey, I bet they could do the same thing with manpages. Dec 19 16:03:53 lol Dec 19 16:05:21 it's been a fundamental failure to have Vusr Vvar et al on rootfs in the first place Dec 19 16:05:46 derf: That is actually not Nokia Dec 19 16:05:50 derf: That is GNU Dec 19 16:06:31 "But with N900 as a developer - I would love to use QT - but QT for commercial applications is charged at $3000,- for a single platform." -- Join date Dec 2009 Dec 19 16:06:42 wtf Dec 19 16:06:46 tf Dec 19 16:06:49 * SpeedEvil thinks someone is confused Dec 19 16:06:57 QT has been LGPL since... qt-4.0? Dec 19 16:07:02 Speed: like...permanently. Dec 19 16:07:09 It wasn't close to $3000 - even for commercial apps - before the change was it? Dec 19 16:07:16 IIRC something more like $99 Dec 19 16:07:21 but my memory may be faulty Dec 19 16:07:29 it was expensive many years ago Dec 19 16:08:28 SpeedEvil: i think it was $2000 minimum just about 2 years ago. Dec 19 16:08:58 Okay, I still can't figure out how promote new versions from devels to testing. Dec 19 16:09:06 So I think "giving up" is going to win. Dec 19 16:09:32 derf: this I can help you with Dec 19 16:09:43 RST38h: Okay, I'm all ears. Dec 19 16:09:53 derf: In exchange for agreeing to apply some tar and feathers to Niels next monday =) Dec 19 16:10:04 derf: what is your -devel package name? Dec 19 16:10:05 That _I_ can help with. Dec 19 16:11:18 RST38h: gjiten 2.6-1maemo5 Dec 19 16:11:21 ok Dec 19 16:12:10 dictionaries too? Dec 19 16:12:23 No, they don't need to be updated (yet). Dec 19 16:12:33 ok, you logged in? Dec 19 16:12:53 Hmm, I thought I was, but apparently not. Dec 19 16:13:48 Oh, that was the problem. Dec 19 16:14:16 gjiten, is that a dictionary? Dec 19 16:14:21 Yes. Dec 19 16:14:23 log in please Dec 19 16:14:39 RST38h: I've already clicked the "Promote package" button that now appeared. Dec 19 16:14:43 derf: Now, navigate to http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_armel/gjiten/2.6-1maemo5 and click PROMOTE PACKAGE Dec 19 16:14:48 derf, what languages? Dec 19 16:14:55 ShadowJK: Japanese<->English. Dec 19 16:14:58 derf: Ok, now replace armel with i386 and do the same Dec 19 16:15:22 derf, do you have input method emulation stuff? Dec 19 16:15:33 ShadowJK: No, someone else was working on that. Dec 19 16:15:40 ah Dec 19 16:15:43 I offered to help, but haven't heard back. Dec 19 16:16:08 Mainly because if I don't, no one will port skk. Dec 19 16:16:12 And I can't stand anthy. Dec 19 16:16:43 Oh well, it already beats Nokia's S60 dictionaries. Their software can't even display the answers. (though I'm sure, if I'd bought the phone in asia, it would be able to display kanji) Dec 19 16:17:05 Hah. Well, the font support out of the box was better than I expected. Dec 19 16:17:20 I installed the droid fonts, that seemed to give me korean too Dec 19 16:17:21 Still missing some of the Unicode radicals, but those are very rare, even in Japanese fonts. Dec 19 16:17:36 And luckily i'm too ignorant to see the difference between chinese and japanese glyphs Dec 19 16:18:04 The difference between simplified and traditional is pretty stark. Dec 19 16:18:20 are those on different unicode codepoints though? Dec 19 16:18:30 Yes. Dec 19 16:18:58 But the Chinese and Japanese kanji that are actually different should be, too. Dec 19 16:19:24 I have no idea what substitution logic things use, though. Dec 19 16:19:37 I was under the impression that the "style" was significantly different that chinese and japanese barf if their computer shows the "wrong" one Dec 19 16:20:38 Yeah, the style is slightly different, but that's only really annoying if you have some glyphs from one font and some from another. Dec 19 16:21:18 I mean, the variation in the various fancy calligraphy styles of Japanese stuff alone is already more drastic. Dec 19 16:21:43 _That_ I sometimes find illegible. Dec 19 16:34:35 hmhm, is there a way to filter contacts by accounts Dec 19 16:34:46 (like, only “phone†ones, or only “jabber†ones Dec 19 17:00:28 lcuk: ping Dec 19 17:00:47 hey timeless Dec 19 17:00:54 where do you track bugs in liqbase? Dec 19 17:01:11 should be in bmo but i havent set up yet Dec 19 17:01:27 ive been waiting for a quiet spell Dec 19 17:01:30 backup is storing ~/.liqbase/thumbs/ and ~/.liqbase/historythumb/ Dec 19 17:01:35 that'll never happen, lcuk Dec 19 17:01:36 :P Dec 19 17:02:40 timeless, cripes, that should be solves in a different manner soon anyway, but thanks for noticing Dec 19 17:03:09 how can one make the 'memory card' visible to the computer when plugging in the usb cable (instead of the internal memory) ? Dec 19 17:03:25 bilboed: they should both be exposed Dec 19 17:03:31 damn i shouldnt rush the bugtracker config, i will have a proper check tonight and get tracker setup tomorrow Dec 19 17:03:53 tracker? Dec 19 17:04:17 timeless_mbp, true, dmes shows me two Nokia N900 devices Dec 19 17:04:27 'dmes'? Dec 19 17:04:31 dmesg Dec 19 17:04:38 * bilboed scratches head... Dec 19 17:04:55 usb 1-10: configuration #1 chosen from 2 choices Dec 19 17:04:57 gah Dec 19 17:05:38 timeless, yeah i should be able to use hildon thumbing stuff, but until now i'd not used it for anything Dec 19 17:06:04 lcuk: will you clean up your directory? Dec 19 17:06:12 btw, maemo5 uses ~/.cache/ Dec 19 17:07:04 so you should too :) Dec 19 17:07:47 lcuk: so, lemme set up your broduct Dec 19 17:08:13 for that, i'll need a description and a list of components :) Dec 19 17:08:17 that sounds like a great idea thx Dec 19 17:08:34 liqbase (library, classic, apps) ? Dec 19 17:08:40 ill get description Dec 19 17:09:00 hmm... I really don't get why my computer only sees the internal memory Dec 19 17:09:13 yet my n900 says both are connected via usb Dec 19 17:09:52 are you in garage? Dec 19 17:10:07 yes Dec 19 17:10:13 lcuk Dec 19 17:12:53 bilboed, im sure both pop up for me when i plug in as mass storage Dec 19 17:13:18 bilboed: probably you lack SCSI MULTI_LUN in your host kernel? Dec 19 17:14:06 CONFIG_SCSI_MULTI_LUN=y should be present to see more than one LUN of a scsi device, and mass storage works through scsi subsystem in Linux. Dec 19 17:14:18 PaulFertser, let me check Dec 19 17:14:31 # CONFIG_SCSI_MULTI_LUN is not set Dec 19 17:14:33 ... Dec 19 17:14:40 oh well, time to upgrade to 2.6.32 I guess :) Dec 19 17:14:42 bilboed: do you self-compile the kernel? Dec 19 17:14:43 lcuk: i need descriptions for the product and each component Dec 19 17:14:48 PaulFertser, gentoo, yes Dec 19 17:15:09 bilboed: ok, then that's one little gotcha, just enable it and you'll get all your devices working :D Dec 19 17:15:17 ok timeless gimme 2 min i was just on my way out Dec 19 17:15:23 PaulFertser, thx a lot Dec 19 17:15:31 timeless_mbp: i spammed bugs@maemo for a bz request for asterisk. Do you do that too or just andre__ ? Dec 19 17:15:47 oh, other thing... the N900 doesn't appear as a MTP device, normal or bug ? Dec 19 17:15:50 jebba: i can make them Dec 19 17:15:57 bilboed: welcome Dec 19 17:16:47 timeless_mbp: pasted you in /msg Dec 19 17:18:05 bilboed: imho the fact n8x0 as well as n900 appearing as mass storage instead of cdc_ether by default is a bug. Dec 19 17:18:41 hmhm and is there a way to change jabber accounts priority? Dec 19 17:19:20 PaulFertser: xp / vista doesnt like cdc_ether much Dec 19 17:19:54 ok, kernel recompiled, rebooting Dec 19 17:20:00 Stskeeps: it's not exactly true. It just doesn't come with the .inf file preinstalled, the driver is in fact there. Dec 19 17:20:19 PaulFertser: ok Dec 19 17:20:28 timeless, http://pastebin.ca/1720559 Dec 19 17:20:43 lcuk: what's your bugzilla adress? Dec 19 17:20:48 breakdown of liqbase sections with descriptions for you Dec 19 17:20:54 mmm i havent got one Dec 19 17:21:00 ... Dec 19 17:21:05 oh, you mean for notifications Dec 19 17:22:02 for now, liquid@gmail.com but its changable in future isnt it? Dec 19 17:22:10 Stskeeps: cdc_ether gives you almost everything mass-storage can give an much more. The only thing i think g_filestorage might be useful is to boot any PC from your cool shiny portable gadget. Dec 19 17:22:41 lcuk: this isn't to encode into the product Dec 19 17:22:46 it's to give you a bit of control over it Dec 19 17:23:49 timeless, what do you mean then my bugzilla address Dec 19 17:23:50 PaulFertser, yay, works like a charm now :) thx a lot Dec 19 17:23:53 bilboed: :D Dec 19 17:24:03 lcuk: that's the one i wanted Dec 19 17:26:21 lcuk: roughly https://bugs.maemo.org/describecomponents.cgi?product=Liqbase Dec 19 17:27:11 bilboed, I thought it didn't have MTP Dec 19 17:27:22 hi Dec 19 17:27:23 ShadowJK, sucks :( Dec 19 17:27:42 ShadowJK, I want it to appear in rhythmbox (and any other media player supporting mtp) Dec 19 17:27:46 timeless, cool Dec 19 17:27:58 * lcuk didnt know how to set these up Dec 19 17:28:25 lcuk: do you want applications + each of the apps? Dec 19 17:28:33 is there any way to put an n900 into "airplane mode" (i.e. turn off the cell radio)? Dec 19 17:28:43 offline mode Dec 19 17:28:44 press the power key? Dec 19 17:28:46 Vratha, press on the power button Dec 19 17:28:55 oooooh Dec 19 17:28:58 i didn't even see that! Dec 19 17:29:00 thank you! Dec 19 17:29:03 like on any other nokia phone :) Dec 19 17:29:13 timeless, yeah when i thought about it, theres no point in mixing them up, people will not need to see bugs about the torch when filing against the calendar Dec 19 17:29:28 I must say I *do* appreciate how they did keep some niceties from other (symbian) nokia phones in terms of behaviour Dec 19 17:29:31 bilboed: you assume i've ever owned another nokia phone Dec 19 17:29:35 and ill add new ones as new apps come through Dec 19 17:29:49 lcuk: ok Dec 19 17:30:20 * lcuk can see this list getting very long in future tho Dec 19 17:30:24 bilboed, well it was there in previous maemo devices too Dec 19 17:30:26 Vratha, my N81 acted in the same way for offline mode (or changing profiles) Dec 19 17:31:52 lcuk: Have you considered a fishing game? Liqbass? Dec 19 17:32:00 joppu_, ping? Dec 19 17:32:28 speedevil *g* Dec 19 17:32:45 lol SpeedEvil Dec 19 17:32:46 * SpeedEvil ponders use of the accellerometer for fly fishing casting simulation. Dec 19 17:32:48 lcuk: reload? Dec 19 17:33:07 SpeedEvil, he's currently working on his lewdness aggregator, liqass. Dec 19 17:33:17 gnn ?? just bought a new microsd card... and my n900 can't write to it Dec 19 17:33:32 timeless, oooh you gave them proper names! Dec 19 17:33:54 I would say check the write protect switch - but there isn't one on microsd. Dec 19 17:34:04 bilboed: what sixe, and any errors in dmesg? Dec 19 17:34:10 SpeedEvil, 8Gb Dec 19 17:34:11 Grr, the "Installation complete" note in h-a-m makes text input in the foreground application impossible. Dec 19 17:34:23 bilboed, is the battery cover on? Dec 19 17:34:33 The N900 will not touch the microsd if the battery cover is missing Dec 19 17:34:36 ShadowJK, yah, battery cover on Dec 19 17:35:11 * bilboed tries rebooting the phone Dec 19 17:35:29 bilboed: is it fat formatted? Dec 19 17:35:41 my n900 would not automatically mount an ext* fs Dec 19 17:35:47 SpeedEvil, dunno, just got it. opened the box, stuck it in, and that's it Dec 19 17:35:56 prolly fat then Dec 19 17:36:06 * bilboed wonders if there's mke2fs on the device :) Dec 19 17:36:11 On that topic - is there a sd card formatter? Dec 19 17:36:15 I diddn't see one Dec 19 17:36:27 bilboed, it wont mount ext* automatically btw Dec 19 17:36:33 i got a msg telling me I had to fsck around with the PC Dec 19 17:36:37 like... seriously... bad Dec 19 17:36:57 ? Dec 19 17:37:07 1s, I'll try to get the message again Dec 19 17:38:13 it's really bad that it doesn't have a way to format the card FROM the device Dec 19 17:38:38 there might be from the file manager, not sure Dec 19 17:38:59 mkfs.ext3 Dec 19 17:39:03 "Memory is read-only until fixed. Try fixing memory from a PC after plugging in USB cable. Create data backup first to save existing memory contents" Dec 19 17:39:04 why can't you use that? Dec 19 17:39:06 that's the message I get Dec 19 17:39:12 jebba, is it on the device ? Dec 19 17:39:17 (maybe i need to read scrollback, /me hides) Dec 19 17:39:22 yes on the device Dec 19 17:39:47 bilboed: dosfsck? Dec 19 17:39:51 e2fsprogs Dec 19 17:40:10 or mkfs.vfat Dec 19 17:40:13 not user friendly. geeks don't care, we can cope with this bs. But imagine the end-user who just bought their 600EUR phone... go and buy a SanDisk 8gb MicroSD (common)... and then have to go through this bs ? Dec 19 17:40:24 make up your mind :) which fs can the n900 handle ? Dec 19 17:40:34 bilboed: It wants vfat as default on that Dec 19 17:40:47 It will mount ext2 ifyou ask it to Dec 19 17:40:52 bilboed, it can "handle" ext3, but it will not mount it automatically. Dec 19 17:41:15 only VFAT formatted memory cards get mounted automatically Dec 19 17:41:35 cat /proc/filesystems for the full range of fsss supported Dec 19 17:41:46 timeless, so thats it, people can file bugs against any of the liqbase applications now, and I will hear about them? Dec 19 17:42:12 so things like liqflow and liqtorch or any of the other things? :D Dec 19 17:42:42 roughly Dec 19 17:43:15 you won't hear about them Dec 19 17:43:24 hold on a bit, i'll give a tutorial on that part in a minute Dec 19 17:43:28 i need to setup asterisk first Dec 19 17:43:40 Steps to reproduce the problem: Dec 19 17:43:46 Install liqtorch Dec 19 17:43:55 jebba and others, please see https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7135 Dec 19 17:43:56 Bug 7135: Setup Liqbase product Dec 19 17:43:57 Play techno music in the player. Dec 19 17:44:05 for roughly the information i used to setup a product Dec 19 17:44:07 I expected strobe light. Dec 19 17:44:14 i need roughly equivalent information for other products Dec 19 17:44:38 note that the details and fields can be changed by me or andre at any time on your behalf Dec 19 17:44:48 so i will use placeholders until i'm given better info Dec 19 17:45:08 ok cool, does each section require 2 addresses? Dec 19 17:45:25 email addresses i mean Dec 19 17:46:14 * SpeedEvil goes back to trying to work out how to setup proper chroot Dec 19 17:46:33 timeless_mbp, there's a wiki page with that info. Dec 19 17:46:39 speedevil for what? Dec 19 17:46:40 SpeedEvil, liqflow is better for techno Dec 19 17:46:49 especially headbanging Dec 19 17:46:51 GAN900: does infobot know it? Dec 19 17:48:09 Probably Dec 19 17:48:17 Don't remember the shortcut Dec 19 17:48:23 woglinde: gcc et al Dec 19 17:48:40 speedevil chroot on n900? Dec 19 17:48:48 woglinde: yes Dec 19 17:48:52 lol Dec 19 17:48:58 http://wiki.maemo.org/Bugs:Adding_Extra_products Dec 19 17:49:20 ~extras-product is http://wiki.maemo.org/Bugs:Adding_Extra_products Dec 19 17:49:33 infobot! Dec 19 17:49:45 GAN900: okay Dec 19 17:49:47 *g* Dec 19 17:50:00 jo wazd Dec 19 17:50:38 woglinde, heya Dec 19 17:53:14 ok, thanks GAN900 the first time i read that, it was a wall of text with overly windy instructions, would be better suited with a template people can edit and submit i think Dec 19 17:55:30 here's a sample bugs:adding-extra-products that I sent that andre__ used, but i think timeless_mbp wants more info: http://pastebin.ca/1720583 Dec 19 17:55:44 timeless, if people file a bug as it stands now, how do i hear about it? Dec 19 17:55:45 hmmm... /me wonders if there's an app like gwibber on the n900. The other twitter/facebook apps are really disappointing Dec 19 17:55:53 mine was a basic product without a bunch of sub-components like liq*, canola, etc. Dec 19 17:55:54 will it just sit in the tracker, or come to me via garage account Dec 19 17:56:27 bilboed: if you find one, please do let me know Dec 19 17:56:36 bilboed: or announce on facebook status :) Dec 19 17:56:41 yah :( Dec 19 17:56:50 lcuk: https://bugs.maemo.org/editproducts.cgi?action=add&classification=Extras Dec 19 17:56:55 ARG@ Dec 19 17:57:00 * timeless_mbp kicks camino Dec 19 17:57:25 * lcuk kicks it for you Dec 19 17:57:29 https://bugs.maemo.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email#watchedusers Dec 19 17:58:44 at the bottom of the page is a text field where you can enter addresses to watch Dec 19 17:58:44 zeenix, mauku seems to go in the right direction... but doesn't seem anywhere complete :( Dec 19 17:58:57 bilboed: yeah, tried it Dec 19 17:59:12 zeenix, like better integration with the rest of the system (contacts and events) Dec 19 17:59:27 something is wrong with recorder.. i see random crashes Dec 19 17:59:28 bilboed: i want something that can work offline Dec 19 17:59:34 zeenix, yah, that too Dec 19 17:59:48 lcuk: from describecomponents Dec 19 18:01:08 so i just list those addresses, or is it simpler to add myself as qa contact Dec 19 18:01:18 just add those Dec 19 18:01:38 the reason we do this is so that people can join the party and watch things individually Dec 19 18:01:41 instead of stalking you Dec 19 18:01:54 sounds like a good idea Dec 19 18:02:20 and i dont add nobody@, i use the ones like liqflow@liqbase.garage.bugs Dec 19 18:02:38 right Dec 19 18:02:59 adding nobody is tantamount to suicide :) Dec 19 18:03:26 haha Dec 19 18:03:33 i doubt even a google acocunt could cope Dec 19 18:03:38 started it from command line to diagnose the problem and sure it does not crashes anymore ;-) Dec 19 18:04:07 though when run via desktop shortcat it does it for sure after a minute or so Dec 19 18:04:20 Hey, i'm packaging up asterisk and I went for this for the /opt layout. Helpful comments welcome. :) http://pastebin.ca/1720590 Dec 19 18:04:20 actually, my gmail account copes w/ a much larger bugzilla :) Dec 19 18:04:29 ok, so now those are added and linked, i can answer the question you asked earlier, and tell you the bugzilla address Dec 19 18:04:57 well, the gmail account you mentioned earlier was already added Dec 19 18:05:06 :) thanks a lot timeless, i will need this when i walk kathy through a bug shes noticed Dec 19 18:05:11 thats ok Dec 19 18:05:23 jebba # Dec 19 18:05:27 /opt/asterisk/log ist wrong Dec 19 18:05:41 /opt/asterisk/var/log you're suggesting? Dec 19 18:05:50 sure Dec 19 18:06:55 bye till latrer Dec 19 18:07:14 /etc/opt : Configuration files for /opt Is what FHS says, but that sucks in this case, cuz the point is to get things *out* of / ... Dec 19 18:08:25 Ah, got the crash Dec 19 18:08:30 "segmentation fault" Dec 19 18:08:35 not quite informative Dec 19 18:08:37 force a symlink from /etc/opt to /opt/maemo/etc/opt ? Dec 19 18:08:54 And file a bug asking maemo to create that symlink ? Dec 19 18:09:35 i guess i should revert to old recorder (named "maemo-recorder" in the repository) Dec 19 18:09:43 ? Dec 19 18:10:01 timeless_mbp: that's exactly what I was thinking, about bug for symlink /etc/opt /opt/etc ... But FSH also notes: "If a configuration file must reside in a different location in order for the package or system to function properly, it may be placed in a location other than /etc/opt/." Dec 19 18:10:28 in this case the system wouldnt function properly without moving it to /etc/asterisk/opt, cuz you'd possibly get a brick. Asterisk conf files are 600k Dec 19 18:11:12 anyone knows if the google-album-art-downloader app actually works ? I installed it... but doesn't do anything, nor can I find the entry in the apps (which I don't expect to considering it's a service) Dec 19 18:13:01 GAN900: what? Dec 19 18:13:29 bilboed, dunno Dec 19 18:13:34 GAN900: pong Dec 19 18:14:01 bilboed: ask pvanhoof :) Dec 19 18:14:08 he's not online Dec 19 18:14:15 bilboed: did you try adding a thing via Settings>Sharing? Dec 19 18:14:17 joppu_, your short description isn't super friendly Dec 19 18:14:35 How about something like "A shiny theme for Maemo"? Dec 19 18:14:46 timeless_mbp, doesn't appear there Dec 19 18:15:57 Why does nokia n900 cost 600 euros in europe while only it costs about $570 in USA Dec 19 18:16:08 is there a difference?????? Dec 19 18:16:21 tgalal: the euro is more expensive Dec 19 18:16:41 tgalal, yeah, we don't give all of our money to the government. :) Dec 19 18:16:44 - Doctor, you must help me! Wherever I look at I see oonlyy fonts, fonts, FONTS! Dec 19 18:17:06 tgalal: it's largely taxation Dec 19 18:17:28 i see Dec 19 18:17:46 http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=%28570*1.15*1.06%29+dollars+in+euro&aq=f&oq=&aqi= Dec 19 18:17:48 tgalal: in the us we charge sales tax later and list the pre sales price Dec 19 18:17:49 well - somewhat Dec 19 18:17:57 in europe, they use something called VAT Dec 19 18:18:04 -Relax, close your eyes and visualize the quick brown fox thatumps over llazy dog Dec 19 18:18:05 which gets included in the list price Dec 19 18:18:55 damn, I hate maemo keyboard Dec 19 18:19:00 timeless_mbp, I want order one from the USA. Will it cost anymore than the listed price, besides the shipping fees? Dec 19 18:19:04 Tax is much lower, though Dec 19 18:19:08 tgalal: yes Dec 19 18:19:15 tgalal: it'll cost tax Dec 19 18:19:19 it's still a win Dec 19 18:19:22 tgalal, no warranty, you usually have to pay customs. Dec 19 18:19:22 tgalal: if your package is intercepted by customs - import duty and VAT Dec 19 18:19:33 oh, if you pay customs, you'll probably lose Dec 19 18:19:45 tgalal: in the UK, that would be an extra 6%, and 15% Dec 19 18:19:53 You're also paying for a longer warranty in EU Dec 19 18:19:57 It's 10% here in Egypt Dec 19 18:19:59 VAT is 15%?! Dec 19 18:20:00 2 years vs 1 Dec 19 18:20:01 GAN900: oh really? Dec 19 18:20:12 rashed2020: int he UK Dec 19 18:20:17 rashed2020, higher some places. Dec 19 18:20:19 Wow, that's A LOT. Dec 19 18:20:21 GAN900: that's in some places Dec 19 18:20:31 GAN900: in the UK, the standard warranty is 1 year AIUI Dec 19 18:20:53 rashed2020, indeed. Dec 19 18:20:57 GAN900: Yeah, I'll fix it when I have time Dec 19 18:21:24 so a total of $607 is a good deal I think Dec 19 18:21:33 tgalal: Where ar eyou? Dec 19 18:21:38 Egypt Dec 19 18:22:40 SpeedEvil, it would cost me $830 if I buy it from Egypt Dec 19 18:23:03 tgalal: I'd check your import tax situation Dec 19 18:23:27 SpeedEvil, it's 10%, but I'll double check Dec 19 18:23:46 warranty is definitely something to consider Dec 19 18:23:55 as some people have needed to use it.. Dec 19 18:24:12 timeless_mbp, I hope I won't need to Dec 19 18:24:20 that's a damble Dec 19 18:24:23 I wouldn't risk the warranty, personally. Dec 19 18:24:32 s/d/g/ Dec 19 18:24:33 timeless_mbp meant: that's a gamble Dec 19 18:24:38 QA doesn't seem particularly good right now. Dec 19 18:24:54 tgalal: I don't know how reliable your mail is, some countries have problems. Italy forex. Dec 19 18:24:54 Tolerances seem, um, high. Dec 19 18:25:08 SpeedEvil: heh Dec 19 18:25:15 SpeedEvil, DHL Dec 19 18:26:02 they're very reliable, tried their service many times before Dec 19 18:26:33 Does anyone here use Google Apps? I was wondering if the standard editions supports synching, too. Dec 19 18:27:01 eh? Dec 19 18:27:07 syncing what? Dec 19 18:27:23 tgalal: also - investigate phone insurance as an alternative to warranty. Dec 19 18:27:38 SpeedEvil: that'd require his egyptian carrier to offer the n900 Dec 19 18:27:42 i doubt they do Dec 19 18:27:50 timeless_mbp: Contacts and calendar. Dec 19 18:28:15 timeless: maybe, maybe not. I can buy in the UK phone insutrance from several providers, and even add it as an option on my home insurance. Dec 19 18:28:43 I keep getting "Exchange Account Disabled. Access Refused" Dec 19 18:28:48 timeless: including accidental damage cover, for when I sit on it. Dec 19 18:30:15 wow Dec 19 18:30:33 SpeedEvil, Nokia has 2 year warranty in all of europe Dec 19 18:30:34 rashed2020: activesync for gmail doesn't work in sales Dec 19 18:30:39 it might work in a future version Dec 19 18:30:46 sales? Dec 19 18:30:51 but i think if you're getting that error you've probably misconfigured it Dec 19 18:30:54 timeless_mbp, if something happens to the phone, isn't it possible to ship it back to nokia for fixes? Dec 19 18:30:59 "original sales software image" Dec 19 18:31:13 Ohhhh Dec 19 18:31:17 ShadowJK: Ok - they must have standardised on that. Companies selling in the UK do not have to offer >12mo Dec 19 18:31:18 tgalal: if you buy in the US, your warranty is *probably* regional Dec 19 18:31:28 i'm not sure that Nokia offers global warranty's Dec 19 18:31:37 Baaaahhhh. I'm not planning on flashing a dev image anytime soon. Dec 19 18:31:38 SpeedEvil, don't forget all the consumer law "reasonable expected lifetime" stuff too ;-) Dec 19 18:31:39 Has anyone been successfull in overcoming the 921 600 baud restriction on nokia usb modem driver? Dec 19 18:31:39 i know that Asus's eeePCs had regional warrantees Dec 19 18:31:42 ShadowJK: (though the sale of goods act may mean it has to be of merchantable quality, which can extend this if you take it to court) Dec 19 18:31:45 Looks like it's going to be manual. Dec 19 18:31:54 rashed2020: since we don't offer dev images, that's good :) Dec 19 18:32:03 lol woops Dec 19 18:32:30 timeless_mbp: So what other options do I have for google activesync? Dec 19 18:32:42 "waiting"? Dec 19 18:32:42 timeless_mbp: Sorry I misread. I wasn't looking for gmail. Just contacts and calendar. Dec 19 18:33:28 * timeless_mbp sighs Dec 19 18:33:31 No way. I think I'm gonna start working on it. Dec 19 18:33:36 * timeless_mbp kicks backup Dec 19 18:33:40 it's following symlinks Dec 19 18:34:39 * timeless_mbp ponders Dec 19 18:35:24 are you pondering what I'm pondering Dec 19 18:36:25 (I think so Proteous_ but what happens if the whale eats the taco?) Dec 19 18:39:04 * timeless_mbp fixes backup by excluding everything from user/home Dec 19 18:40:05 arf, so irritating Dec 19 18:40:40 stupid com port restrictions Dec 19 18:42:44 red: fwiw.. Dec 19 18:42:56 i managed to stream a live video cast using my n900 and wVista Dec 19 18:44:49 from n900 camera? Dec 19 18:44:56 or just a videofile from the n900? Dec 19 18:45:05 i did that with mencoder Dec 19 18:49:20 the windows computer used firewire as input Dec 19 18:49:24 my n900 was just the uplink Dec 19 18:52:32 Can someone confirm something for me: Maemo doesn't realize that a country code maybe a prefix. So +1222911 isn't the same number as 222911, right? Dec 19 18:53:13 ? Dec 19 18:53:29 the phone is about as stupid as every other phone i've ever met in this area Dec 19 18:53:40 what did you expect it to do? Dec 19 18:53:57 Well, my old symbian phone was fine. Dec 19 18:54:05 what did it *DO*? Dec 19 18:54:08 * timeless_mbp hates users Dec 19 18:54:13 they expect mind reading Dec 19 18:54:16 and teleportation Dec 19 18:54:20 and infinite wealth and resources Dec 19 18:54:26 and well... i don't have any of those Dec 19 18:54:37 you should give 'em false hope Dec 19 18:54:42 It wouldn't display a contact name because 911 called me while the contact number is saved as +1911 Dec 19 18:54:54 Jeez, sorry man. Literally my first 10 minutes with Maemo. Dec 19 18:55:20 which did which? Dec 19 18:55:42 phones afaiu do not understand the country region they're in while roaming Dec 19 18:55:44 The symbian phone displayed the contact name while Maemo didn't. Dec 19 18:55:54 so you have a contact "+1911" Dec 19 18:55:58 and "911" calls you Dec 19 18:56:04 Yes. Dec 19 18:56:07 and you expect it to figure out that they're the same? Dec 19 18:56:17 what if you also have a "+44911" contact? Dec 19 18:56:35 why should the phone know to show the +1 instead of the +44 contact? Dec 19 18:56:40 the usa is fun btw Dec 19 18:56:40 Literally every other phone I've used did that. I was just looking for confirmation that this phone doesn't. Dec 19 18:56:57 112 should work worldwide Dec 19 18:56:59 because i can have a 7 digit number, which might call different people depending on my sim (?) Dec 19 18:56:59 hm can someone with n900 please do an apt-get install qtnx? Dec 19 18:57:06 but that is not police everywhere Dec 19 18:57:07 qtnx is in extras-testing Dec 19 18:57:23 LinuxCode: The number was just an example. Dec 19 18:57:27 woglinde: "could not get lock file" Dec 19 18:57:29 LinuxCode: 112? Dec 19 18:57:30 rashed2020, ok Dec 19 18:57:39 timeless_mbp ???? Dec 19 18:57:40 does recorder work ok for you? i get random crashes all the time Dec 19 18:57:41 * lcuk slaps LinuxCode Dec 19 18:57:49 * LinuxCode slaps lcuk back Dec 19 18:57:52 luke-jr_: Emergency services. You can even call them without a sim card. Dec 19 18:57:57 woglinde: you didn't tell me to be root Dec 19 18:58:12 rashed2020: it works everywhere? Dec 19 18:58:16 timeless_mbp *sigh* Dec 19 18:58:30 luke-jr_: It should. Dec 19 18:58:37 woglinde: missing steps to reproduce will get you precisely _here_ Dec 19 18:58:46 rashed2020: I'll have to try it next time I have an emergency. Dec 19 18:58:54 rashed2020: how would it work from my VoIP phone? ;) Dec 19 18:59:00 timeless_mbp sudo gainroot than apt-get install qtnx Dec 19 18:59:17 if you have enabeld extras-testing Dec 19 18:59:18 heh, I guess that depends on how your provider has it configured. Dec 19 18:59:22 woglinde: you're learning ;-) Dec 19 18:59:24 rashed2020: I don't do providers. Dec 19 18:59:25 ^ luke-jr_ Dec 19 18:59:39 rashed2020: I wholesale POTS minutes. Dec 19 19:00:04 Well, however your wholesale minutes people do it. Dec 19 19:00:10 no, they don't. Dec 19 19:00:23 if it's not country-code + etc, it won't go through Dec 19 19:00:31 Ohh Dec 19 19:00:41 rashed2020: anyway Dec 19 19:00:45 Didn't know that. Dec 19 19:00:48 if you want to report a problem, you can't short cut things Dec 19 19:00:58 and suggesting '911' as a number is a bad idea Dec 19 19:01:03 as it does all sorts of screwy things Dec 19 19:01:09 I have the standard 911 routed to a nearby police dispatch, but not 112 ;) Dec 19 19:01:16 e.g. if your exchange is "special" (as luke-jr_ 's is) Dec 19 19:01:31 timeless_mbp: or more like "not special" :P Dec 19 19:01:45 luke-jr_: well, '9' is often "outside line please" Dec 19 19:01:51 '1' is 'international please' Dec 19 19:01:55 '1' is 'us please' Dec 19 19:02:02 is 'confuse the dialer please' Dec 19 19:02:26 timeless_mbp: +1 is North America Dec 19 19:02:28 (pbx's that actually get 911 right were rare historically) Dec 19 19:02:33 luke-jr_: mexico? :) Dec 19 19:02:39 timeless_mbp: That was just an example. Also, I just tried it on my friend's iPhone and Android phones and they figured out the issue I mentioned a few minutes back. Dec 19 19:02:43 not sure about mexico Dec 19 19:02:52 I don't call Mexico often :p Dec 19 19:02:58 +52 Dec 19 19:03:01 i Dec 19 19:03:03 c Dec 19 19:03:10 Canada is just the 51st state Dec 19 19:03:16 and obviously they reserved 52 for Mexico ;-) Dec 19 19:03:24 <.< Dec 19 19:03:52 rashed2020: i'm not really sure how one gets this "right" Dec 19 19:04:02 for one, i'm not sure what you're actually getting in the caller id field Dec 19 19:04:21 rashed2020: also - it doesn't. You cannot call the emergency number in the UK without a valid SIM logged into a network Dec 19 19:04:21 and for another, it's perfectly legit for me to have +44xxxxx and +328xxxxx Dec 19 19:04:47 yeah, emergency service availability varies by country Dec 19 19:04:54 read wikipedia if you like Dec 19 19:04:58 timeless_mbp: I understand that. I wasn't complaining I just wanted to know if this is how Maemo works or if I had something wrong. Dec 19 19:05:07 i don't think anyone here knows Dec 19 19:05:18 but if you don't come up with a ***** really ****** complete example Dec 19 19:05:23 you're just wasting my breakfast Dec 19 19:05:35 Alright, let me type it up for you. Dec 19 19:05:54 feel free to xxxx the last 4 digits of the number Dec 19 19:06:10 but at least include a valid area code and exchange Dec 19 19:06:20 and then add some contacts for other countries with the same number Dec 19 19:06:31 +44 = England fwiw Dec 19 19:07:07 +358 = Finland Dec 19 19:07:14 +34 = Spain Dec 19 19:07:21 that's 4, which should be enough for playing around Dec 19 19:07:38 +33 = France (that's #5 ...) Dec 19 19:07:55 * timeless_mbp wonders how to usefully test this Dec 19 19:08:02 * timeless_mbp doesn't really want to ring up a roaming bill Dec 19 19:08:08 * timeless_mbp has already played that game, and it *sucks* Dec 19 19:09:07 * timeless_mbp hunts breakfast, lunch, and dinner Dec 19 19:09:40 timeless_mbp: hunt it, kill it, grill it! Dec 19 19:11:05 * timeless_mbp prefers plastic Dec 19 19:11:13 i forget. Does the default setup allow "user" to run arbitrary applications as sudo? Dec 19 19:13:05 like would "sudo /etc/init.d/asterisk start" work? Dec 19 19:15:04 questions that less typing to answer on device than to ask... Dec 19 19:15:11 +require Dec 19 19:17:50 pupnik_: it does? Dec 19 19:18:02 the DEFAULT SETUP was what i was asking about pupnik_ Dec 19 19:20:13 can someone just run this for me to see if it works for them or not? "sudo ls" Dec 19 19:20:49 works Dec 19 19:21:28 holey carp,so i am getting my n900 on 24th of December ^^ Dec 19 19:22:22 jebba: no Dec 19 19:22:29 i expected something like congratulations :( Dec 19 19:22:37 you need to install a friendly gainroot Dec 19 19:22:50 and it doesn't allow args Dec 19 19:23:24 sudo ls asked me for a password Dec 19 19:23:26 LuciusMare: none for you! Dec 19 19:23:28 >.< Dec 19 19:23:53 Shadikka: did you do anything more than just have gainroot installed? Dec 19 19:24:05 jebba: you need to add to /etc/sudoers.d/asterisk Dec 19 19:24:07 aww Dec 19 19:24:09 or something Dec 19 19:24:25 and call uopdate-sudoers in postinst/postrm Dec 19 19:24:43 I wanted to throw it at the surgeon table immidiaetly,just after getting it Dec 19 19:24:46 but now,it seems so real Dec 19 19:24:50 i dont want to lose my money Dec 19 19:25:01 though i will play with it :) Dec 19 19:25:08 timeless ok. In this case the person doing the sudoing would be the user "user" not "asterisk" user, fwiw. Dec 19 19:25:34 timeless_mbp: http://pastebin.com/m6745c14c Dec 19 19:25:36 jebba: the filename is to avoid conflicts Dec 19 19:25:40 timeless ^ Dec 19 19:25:59 look at the others for inspiration Dec 19 19:26:20 timelss cool, thx! Dec 19 19:27:06 rashed, so Dec 19 19:27:20 all of my contacts have intl prefixes on them Dec 19 19:27:32 and i rarely have a problem w/ caller id Dec 19 19:27:43 in fact, i can't ever remember a problem Dec 19 19:28:00 got my N900 today, but very disappointed in the lack of IMAP IDLE support :( Dec 19 19:28:16 roughly i have contacts as +1215222XXXX. Dec 19 19:28:17 Hey timeless, could microB select links in the page with the up/down arrows when shift is held down? Dec 19 19:28:36 gadgetoid: shift means something to web browsers Dec 19 19:28:44 so abusing it is a bad idea Dec 19 19:29:01 Shift + up/down would be great though, for navigating through the page Dec 19 19:29:07 Or even the FN key if it can be detected Dec 19 19:29:16 timeless: That's odd. That's exactly how I have them saved and it's not working correctly. I'll see what I can figure out. Dec 19 19:29:17 pous Dec 19 19:29:23 I'm just comparing the Droid versus the N900 in fingerless webpage navigation Dec 19 19:29:32 most keyboardd don't even have up/down arrows Dec 19 19:29:45 you need to use fn to get them Dec 19 19:29:49 D-Pad on the droid will select individual links, whereas the N900 it will scroll up/down Dec 19 19:29:56 which definitely rules it out as a modifier Dec 19 19:30:17 Ctrl? Dec 19 19:30:23 and needing to hold 3 keys to navigate would be painful Dec 19 19:30:35 ctrl also means something for web browsers Dec 19 19:30:49 Well it's currently impossible to select links with keys, as far as I know Dec 19 19:30:57 roughly, we finally acknowledged that we have a touchscreen Dec 19 19:31:04 As they've been used for scrolling instead... which is very very nice but not very functional Dec 19 19:31:14 and that it's our primary input method Dec 19 19:31:25 * timeless eats Dec 19 19:31:41 Makes me wonder why so many people still use keyboards Dec 19 19:31:48 They're all clearly deluded Dec 19 19:31:55 * timeless doesn't while browsing Dec 19 19:32:10 and i'm a power user, someday you can watch me Dec 19 19:32:29 I much prefer using the keyboard to scroll/browse rather than kludgy thumb pokes Dec 19 19:32:46 selecting links by arrowkey is such a great idea, i only have to hit it 50 times to get to the needed link, thanks Gadgetoid_nc10 Dec 19 19:33:02 keynav on densely linked pages is total fail Dec 19 19:33:15 pupnik_++ Dec 19 19:33:17 pupnik_: it generally serves to scroll the page, too Dec 19 19:33:33 And consequently works very well in Android Dec 19 19:33:59 meh, pupnik, double-tap THEN click the link. Dec 19 19:34:00 You can, for example, scroll down the article summaries of a blog, with it selecting each link as it goes Dec 19 19:34:26 And then just hit the center of the navigator to select a link, which you've incidentally focussed by scrolling Dec 19 19:34:29 This sounds mostly like a case of "what user is used to" Dec 19 19:34:50 GAN900: yes, it's a matter of preference Dec 19 19:35:15 roughly each preference supported is incredibly expensive Dec 19 19:35:23 But never mind, Android is clearly an irrelevant niche OS and anything that might be done on it is clearly wrong... what with Maemo being so prevalent Dec 19 19:35:25 yours costs 4-5 months Dec 19 19:35:35 3 engineers and 4 testers Dec 19 19:35:45 Ah, yes, there the ration discussion goes out the window. Dec 19 19:36:46 timeless: I wish it'd just cost a TAB key... but there isn't one =/ Dec 19 19:36:49 Android is not Maemo and Maemo is not Android Dec 19 19:39:14 I wonder what Android does if there are NO links on a page Dec 19 19:39:20 Connections always drop at the most convenient times. Dec 19 19:39:20 It would be tragic if the page didn't scroll Dec 19 19:39:38 If you really want the arrow keys to scroll links, write a plugin. Dec 19 19:39:46 I must say I much prefer the way that the N900 does it, but dislike having to tap the screen to select a link Dec 19 19:41:22 maemo's approach is a bit different - double click to zoom on that element, and hitting the link is then easy Dec 19 19:41:29 Oh that's cool Dec 19 19:41:50 That message lagged so much I received it after I reconnected. Dec 19 19:42:00 hey RevdKathy Dec 19 19:42:01 evening RevdKathy Dec 19 19:42:08 Evening all Dec 19 19:42:16 Gadgetoid_nc10, it's a touchscreen-oriented device. :) Dec 19 19:42:29 thought I'd log in before I waste any more money phoning strictly Dec 19 19:42:42 * lcuk slides a glass of vodka along the chan bar @ RevdKathy Dec 19 19:43:00 GAN900: I hate scrolling on the touchscreen, it only worked on the iPhone because of portrait mode Dec 19 19:43:07 lol tracy is watching the final too Dec 19 19:43:14 Thanks lcuk. I was debating opening the Christmas booze - it's all sat there tempting me Dec 19 19:43:17 if only she would have as much restraint Dec 19 19:43:29 Haha lcuk, the other half has that nonsense on too, graag Dec 19 19:43:31 Who's she voting for? Dec 19 19:43:39 I restricted myself to three votes :p Dec 19 19:43:50 gadgetoid: portrait is coming in the first service release Dec 19 19:43:54 That said, woman in ridiculous open skirts showing off their underwear whilst dancing inefficiently... Dec 19 19:43:59 i dunno and am scared to ask Dec 19 19:44:05 timeless don't tell me that, I might actually kiss you Dec 19 19:44:12 her favorite from xfactor lost last week Dec 19 19:44:22 so no doubt shes calling twice as much Dec 19 19:44:33 pardon? Dec 19 19:44:36 oh dear - if her fave loses strictly too, you may have a problem. Dec 19 19:44:45 it was only good when rachel was in it Dec 19 19:44:46 Gadgetoid_nc10, you're clearly doing something wrong. Dec 19 19:45:00 Is she prone to suicidal impulses? Dec 19 19:45:11 gadgetoid it was stated by nokia already that portrait would come.. I don't know in what extent, but it will come.. I think Browser will support it for sure Dec 19 19:45:15 hi guys Dec 19 19:45:24 timeless: accelerometer driven? I gave up on the iPhone cos the fscking screen would rotate every time I lay in bed to browse websites. Dec 19 19:45:44 I have this fantasy of an upate before Christmas to support iplayer Dec 19 19:45:44 timeless_mbp: any hint on how to go to top of a loooong html page? balistic fingerscrolling is tedious, shift-space doesn't autorepeat, and cursor-up is slooow. Dec 19 19:45:53 gadgetoid : that happens on the N900 as well.. but I've read it's fixed Dec 19 19:46:17 try adding # to the url and pressing enter? Dec 19 19:46:18 revdkathy I wish so as well, but I'd prefer a dedicated app from BBC :) Dec 19 19:46:21 Accelerometer doesn't rotate in bed for me! Dec 19 19:46:29 or a bookmarklet Dec 19 19:46:30 Anidel: So I'm clearly not the only person that lazy! Dec 19 19:46:49 I don't care - I want to watch the Xmas Doctor Who again in bed n boxing day morning Dec 19 19:46:55 regardless of how Dec 19 19:47:22 regardless ? Dec 19 19:47:23 Anidel: the Droid does it well, by locking into landscape mode when the keyboard is open Dec 19 19:47:37 I doubt the beeb will make an app - click hsn't even commented Dec 19 19:47:41 revd: clearly you're a brit Dec 19 19:47:41 timeless_mbp: thanks. will try Dec 19 19:47:50 oh time to go out for a pizza.. it was a short stay here :) we'll be back later.. amazingly everything is ready for our trip tomorrow back to Italy.. wow.. I am proud of ourselves Dec 19 19:47:56 RevdKathy, I doubt click even makes the apps Dec 19 19:48:00 yeah, 'fraid so Timeless Dec 19 19:48:04 RevdKathy, Dec 19 19:48:04 mmm doesnt rotate? Dec 19 19:48:06 A narrow webpage on the Motorola Droid screen, in portrait mode, is an awe inspiring sight Dec 19 19:48:10 Gadgetoid: you can lock Phone in portrait or landscape I think... Dec 19 19:48:16 No, I doubt they do - but it shows where their tech team are looking Dec 19 19:48:26 besides, there isnt a dedicated bbc iplayer app for linux yet or did I miss something ? Dec 19 19:48:28 At least it would be, if I could actually read text that tiny Dec 19 19:48:33 see ya later Dec 19 19:48:47 my n900 browser doesn't rotate in bed, lcuk. It would get its jammies all twisted up if it did Dec 19 19:48:53 Anidel: all well and good, until I *want* it to rotate... serves the iPhone right for not having a keyboard Dec 19 19:48:53 Gadgetoid_nc10, a high resolution widescreen movie occupying the n900 screen is even better Dec 19 19:49:02 DocScrutinizer51: Map FN+left/right to Home/End. Dec 19 19:49:09 timeless_mbp: would microb act on pageup or home (if I remap my kbd)? Dec 19 19:49:17 for whatever reason, boxing day didn't make it across the pond Dec 19 19:49:20 ahhh kathy Dec 19 19:49:33 lcuk: Nah, the N900 outputting a low resolution widescreen movie to an external screen whilst simultaneously running other apps is better :) Dec 19 19:49:37 probably because it was bad for business :) Dec 19 19:49:53 doc: dunno offhand Dec 19 19:50:08 Gadgetoid_nc10, hwy limit the output to none interactive things Dec 19 19:50:12 i'm too lazy to run microb on a desktop to check Dec 19 19:50:22 the tvout can have different content to the lcd Dec 19 19:50:53 matanZ: that's a really bad idea for my kbd layout, as those are up/down already Dec 19 19:51:06 lcuk: true true! could run a SNES emu out to the TV whilst still browsing the net on the phone itself Dec 19 19:51:30 n900could multitasj that - but could you? Dec 19 19:51:33 re Dec 19 19:51:34 that i dont know Dec 19 19:51:43 cos that would be rgb+rgb Dec 19 19:51:58 * timeless is w/ kathy Dec 19 19:52:07 Running video out whilst browsing the net worked for me, I'm sure it could be done Dec 19 19:52:16 RevdKathy: wii controller for someone else Dec 19 19:52:16 the multitasking there seems incredibly questionable Dec 19 19:52:29 2 people Dec 19 19:52:37 1 using the big screen Dec 19 19:52:43 does the wii controller work? I fancy it would impress my iphone-wielding nephews Dec 19 19:52:45 speedevil: the issue is attn and being able to not die Dec 19 19:52:55 one continuing happily with mobile Dec 19 19:52:55 Kinda RevdKathy Dec 19 19:53:01 revd: there's an app for that Dec 19 19:53:18 but not enough to quietly impede their wii games without them knowing? Dec 19 19:53:18 If by "work" you mean "require a certain amount of effort to get working kinda ish" Dec 19 19:53:19 wiimote input, lcuk? Dec 19 19:53:25 it was shown in the video that got nokia and co in trouble w/ nintendo Dec 19 19:53:37 women are evil! Dec 19 19:53:41 Stskeeps, not me Dec 19 19:53:46 *has malicious aims towards the boys wii games on News Years* Dec 19 19:53:50 but konttori did it didnt he? Dec 19 19:53:57 lcuk, idea for dual liqbase Dec 19 19:54:05 ~lart x-fade Dec 19 19:54:05 * infobot beats x-fade to within 2.54cm of his life Dec 19 19:54:12 DocScrutinizer51: Works for me. Dec 19 19:54:32 mmmm dual liqbase http://liqbase.net/liqbase_dualstack.JPG Dec 19 19:55:04 matanZ: for sure it works. but I really don't want to lose my up+down keys Dec 19 19:55:35 lcuk: ok, that picture is better in portrait Dec 19 19:55:38 hey matanZ, how is it going? Dec 19 19:56:16 timeless, its better with more Dec 19 19:56:21 i want a grid of em Dec 19 19:56:40 and at the moment its ok as it is Dec 19 19:56:45 cos its still keyboard usable Dec 19 19:56:57 matanZ: I'd prefer microb had a way to assign keycodes to certain actions. like shift-up for "go to top" Dec 19 19:57:00 but yeah for book reader style Dec 19 19:57:13 DocScrutinizer51: me too Dec 19 19:57:15 open like a book and have connected apps on them Dec 19 19:57:34 * lcuk will get there Dec 19 19:57:36 * timeless grumbles Dec 19 19:58:06 whats the grumble fur? Dec 19 19:58:17 will the guy curious about portrait mode be happy to know that it'll be a hidden preview feature in that first service release? Dec 19 19:58:27 no context menu in portrait Dec 19 19:58:37 makes using news.google.com annoying Dec 19 19:59:14 Hahaha, I don't actually care a lick for portrait outside of google mail Dec 19 20:00:14 Or blogs, perhaps Dec 19 20:00:50 Actually, probably most long texty websites work quite well in portrait but I've got used to not having it anywhere but FBReader now Dec 19 20:01:06 Gadgetoid: matanZ: even better was a general universal utility to set up per-app and global key assignments, -shortcuts, -macros. Dec 19 20:02:22 Let me know when you're done writing it DocScrutinizer51 Dec 19 20:02:42 hahaha Dec 19 20:03:41 I must have funny thumbs, the Droid touch scrolling is less responsive than that of the N900... pretty serious feat for a capacitive screen to be trumped by resistive Dec 19 20:03:53 DocScrutinizer51, see the article on Planet about keybinding Dec 19 20:04:13 The bind Home/End to one of the arrow keys + fn Dec 19 20:04:41 I wish Nokia's scrolling had more inertia, though. Dec 19 20:05:16 timeless: Ok something really weird is happening. When I get the call then it's just the number, not the name. But when I check the call log then the name is there. Dec 19 20:05:29 arrow key plus FN = arrow key! Dec 19 20:06:12 Stskeeps, whats the idea Dec 19 20:06:14 down = Fn+right Dec 19 20:06:23 up = Fn+left Dec 19 20:07:08 so itMs insane to bind home to the up key' no? Dec 19 20:07:09 lcuk, use stylus to control tablet ver, wiimote for tv ver? Dec 19 20:07:17 * RST38h yawns Dec 19 20:07:37 Stskeeps, o_O perfectly reasonable Dec 19 20:07:49 and would of course be practice for then mer on wii comes around Dec 19 20:09:06 http://itmademyday.com/ Dec 19 20:09:07 moo Dec 19 20:09:29 woof Dec 19 20:10:36 so how are things everywhere? =) Dec 19 20:11:08 * DocScrutinizer51 curses clumsy qwertz layout of german N900 Dec 19 20:11:32 hi aSIMULAtor Dec 19 20:11:34 RST38h, they are fiiiiiiiiiiine Dec 19 20:11:43 especially since I never use öäü Dec 19 20:12:02 lcuk: suspicious! Dec 19 20:12:22 heh of course Dec 19 20:12:26 im tired Dec 19 20:12:41 DocScrutinizer51, see the article on Planet to bind fn+arrow keys to something else. Dec 19 20:12:57 asimulator: did you install the splash Dec 19 20:13:11 DocScrutinizer51, oh, right, shitty keyboard Dec 19 20:13:17 Sucks for you. Dec 19 20:13:37 GAN900: I have absolutely no problem to remap keys. Alas I canMt change the fsckng keycaps prints Dec 19 20:13:52 Why does that matter? Dec 19 20:14:06 it is annoying indeed Dec 19 20:14:31 as I'm not used to the us qwerty layout of N900 Dec 19 20:15:48 so I'd need a 'map' on a paper to look up which key to press Dec 19 20:17:00 Stskeeps, around? Dec 19 20:17:06 http://comicjk.com/Pics/Comic272.gif Dec 19 20:18:07 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPhKt5mTWZI Absolutely hilarious N900 video. See if you can recognize which person the t.m.o user is! Dec 19 20:19:10 The dude on the left with the neckbrace probably represents Quim :D :D :D Dec 19 20:19:19 lmao Dec 19 20:19:22 pupnik_, qole?) Dec 19 20:20:03 Dude in black represents the maemo-users who have completely crazy expectations - and the ad shows how the community expectations transformed into the N900 product. Dec 19 20:20:24 For me the funniest part is how the freak-in-black is behaving just like a forum member :D Dec 19 20:20:33 (me included of course) Dec 19 20:20:36 5 stars Dec 19 20:21:31 well that was weird Dec 19 20:21:56 waz: hey, i need some artwork Dec 19 20:22:21 timeless, heya Dec 19 20:24:45 timeless, what exactly? Dec 19 20:29:30 out of curiosity, is your conversation -plugin for MSN actually working? Dec 19 20:29:35 mine isn't Dec 19 20:41:58 hi all Dec 19 20:44:44 Right.. back to strictly. 'Night all! Dec 19 20:48:38 moo, wazd Dec 19 20:51:24 pupnik_: Hahahaha Dec 19 20:51:40 wubb that video Dec 19 20:51:56 * Gadgetoid_nc10 cuddles his N900 and spits on the Milestone Dec 19 20:52:11 * Gadgetoid_nc10 wipes the spit off the Milestone, as it's got to be sent back Dec 19 20:55:06 bug 3700 Dec 19 20:55:09 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3700 Put signatures not on top in replies (thereby not forcing top-post) Dec 19 20:55:21 bug 2563 Dec 19 20:55:22 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2563 Please provide an attribution line for replying Dec 19 20:59:48 milestone? Dec 19 21:00:09 timeless, Droid Dec 19 21:00:18 What he said :D Dec 19 21:00:22 timeless, european name Dec 19 21:00:40 Yeah I'm not sure why they call it a Milestone, first Android 2.0 phone I gues Dec 19 21:00:49 But I think it's probably also doomed to be the worst one Dec 19 21:08:23 * timeless_mbp tries to figure out England Dec 19 21:08:30 i hear it's a big island or something Dec 19 21:09:59 No, that's Great Britain. Dec 19 21:10:09 derf *g* Dec 19 21:11:00 England isn't an Island? Dec 19 21:11:16 It is part of an island. Dec 19 21:11:22 England is a country Dec 19 21:11:26 lcuk: why does liqtorch disable the ondemand gov? Dec 19 21:11:32 And actually includes like a 100 other smaller islands. Dec 19 21:11:42 As are Wales and Scotland Dec 19 21:11:46 Is England that place where they actually speak English? Dec 19 21:11:51 * RST38h hides Dec 19 21:11:54 heh Dec 19 21:12:02 RST38h: Not if you go to the North. Dec 19 21:12:12 No, RST38h, most people from Europe speak better English, ha! Dec 19 21:12:39 'round here they speak Polish these days Dec 19 21:12:40 xorAxAx, :D on which system Dec 19 21:12:45 it shouldnt touch anything on n900 Dec 19 21:12:55 lcuk: in the startup script as far as i saw Dec 19 21:13:03 yeah, on which system Dec 19 21:13:08 it doesnt touch it for n900.. Dec 19 21:13:19 ok :) why and where is it necessary? Dec 19 21:13:28 liqbase.. liqtip... ligharder... am I mispronouncing liqbase... Dec 19 21:13:34 how about a liqheating app? :-) Dec 19 21:13:41 liq lick Dec 19 21:13:44 Gadgetoid: The best English I have heard was spoken by an Indean Dec 19 21:13:58 xorAxAx, have you got an n8x0? Dec 19 21:13:58 Gadgetoid: who looked like a hobo, too. Dec 19 21:14:08 Wtf is with these GPodder releases! Dec 19 21:14:13 lcuk: only a scratchbox currently Dec 19 21:14:22 Luminous fish effect!? Dec 19 21:14:23 i reflashed my n810 because it will be sold soon Dec 19 21:14:23 heh, and liqbase RUNS? Dec 19 21:14:28 no :) Dec 19 21:14:33 SOLD xorAxAx!? SoLD!? Dec 19 21:14:37 I'll give you £10 for it Dec 19 21:14:37 liqbase any version simply does not work in scratchbox Dec 19 21:14:44 Gadgetoid_nc10: 160 EUR on ebay.de Dec 19 21:14:46 it is totally 100% incompatible Dec 19 21:14:54 sorry Dec 19 21:14:57 its fine with scratchbox Dec 19 21:15:01 but not the emulator thingy Dec 19 21:15:02 Wowser xorAxAx, I bought mine new for not much more than that Dec 19 21:15:03 for running Dec 19 21:15:23 Gadgetoid_nc10: lets hope mine reaches that price as well :) Dec 19 21:15:23 Ebay would have to pry my n810 out of my cold, dead hands Dec 19 21:15:37 xorAxAx, please file a bug Dec 19 21:15:44 lcuk: why do you need to disable the gov? Dec 19 21:15:46 if you think its wrong Dec 19 21:15:48 lcuk: which bug? Dec 19 21:15:51 * lcuk likes being able to say that Dec 19 21:15:52 ok, let's try again Dec 19 21:15:53 thanks timeless Dec 19 21:16:07 where should i be in England for New Years? Dec 19 21:16:13 xorAxAx, if you have your n810, install original liqbase on it Dec 19 21:16:17 and go into the settings Dec 19 21:16:23 there is a cpu frequency thing Dec 19 21:16:25 you can play Dec 19 21:16:29 and see the speed difference Dec 19 21:16:32 ah Dec 19 21:16:37 liqbase playground runs really well on n810 Dec 19 21:16:46 really really well actually Dec 19 21:16:49 O.o Dec 19 21:16:57 i am so pleased that all the optimisation i put in Dec 19 21:17:01 no,i will wait fpor the n900 Dec 19 21:17:07 lcuk: so you recommend overclocking N810 and selling it at a higher price as "enhanced"? :p Dec 19 21:17:16 lcuk: and which emulator do you mean? Dec 19 21:17:16 luke-jr_, not overclocking Dec 19 21:17:22 its changing the governor Dec 19 21:17:26 i c Dec 19 21:17:32 lcuk: that fails to cooperate with liqfoo? Dec 19 21:17:47 xorAxAx, xephyr and stuff cannot emulate the YUV xvideo mode Dec 19 21:17:56 so ive never ever seen liqbase emulated Dec 19 21:18:02 What's up with the my-maemo.com-repo? I don't see a single file added to available programs. Dec 19 21:18:04 only run live direct on hardware Dec 19 21:18:10 "there is a distinction between discipline and ritualized lunacy" Dec 19 21:18:12 * RST38h cackles Dec 19 21:18:15 scratchbox and xephyr arent emulators, lcuk Dec 19 21:18:31 timeless_mbp: you can stay here for new years, and I'll set fire to you, it's a custom, honest Dec 19 21:18:35 xorAxAx, point being Dec 19 21:18:40 the rest of maemo is emulatable Dec 19 21:18:43 liqbase isnt Dec 19 21:18:55 lcuk: it fails with 22:18:37 hardware_product_read, cannot open for reading Dec 19 21:18:55 /usr/bin/liqtorch-run.sh: line 20: 14026 Segmentation fault ./liqtorch Dec 19 21:19:08 thats hardly a yuv issue Dec 19 21:19:15 no, but why should i care Dec 19 21:19:22 Has anything worthwhile been done with liqbase? on the n810 it did a good job of screwing up apt by filling all available disk space Dec 19 21:19:27 there's no sense in running liqtorch via emu Dec 19 21:19:29 if i get past that (easy one in startup actually) Dec 19 21:19:30 user satisfaction Dec 19 21:19:36 there is wazd_n800 Dec 19 21:19:41 if it couldv been emulated Dec 19 21:19:45 you wouldv spotted the bug Dec 19 21:19:49 so it helps you to save time) Dec 19 21:20:27 xorAxAx, i could fix that v easily (and will have to when i get round to porting again, or someone else) but even getting past it now will stop it later with yuv Dec 19 21:20:33 its something ive not considered tho Dec 19 21:21:17 * konttori is just reading excellent look at QML by Kenneth Christianssen http://kenneth.christiansen.googlepages.com/DUI.html Dec 19 21:21:21 http://github.com/lcuk/libliqbase Dec 19 21:21:28 xorAxAx, if oyu wanna try Dec 19 21:21:28 s/ssen/sen Dec 19 21:21:33 lcuk: na Dec 19 21:21:33 its in liqapp.c i believe Dec 19 21:21:40 quite simple to just stop it stopping Dec 19 21:21:52 and see if you can battle yuv ;) Dec 19 21:22:01 i used DISPLAY=:0 Dec 19 21:22:08 i dont need to battle yuv :) Dec 19 21:22:16 xvideo does not use the normal x11 pathway Dec 19 21:22:56 konttori, did you know all liqbase is built up of similar tiny modular building blocks Dec 19 21:23:11 if you put a qml interface on the top it would fly Dec 19 21:23:37 hell, you could wrap it with c++ ;) Dec 19 21:23:43 Sounds like a pretty nice plan to me Dec 19 21:23:49 * lcuk nods :) Dec 19 21:24:05 having said that, also having gl acceleration is nice. Dec 19 21:24:16 indeed Dec 19 21:28:50 xorAxAx, are you using x86 Dec 19 21:28:53 or armel Dec 19 21:29:22 just out of curiousity really cos it fails on armel later when its connecting to the display Dec 19 21:32:01 I love kenneths ending regarding QML: "QML also has some support for loading it on demand over HTTP, much like Flash, and it seems that it has the potential for becoming a Flash killer with time. A web browser plugin could easily be developed and Nokia could support it directly on all its S60 phones, when the Qt S60 port is ready. This way, third parties could develop applications that you run remotely and where you always would ru Dec 19 21:32:01 latest release! " Dec 19 21:32:07 Think about that. Dec 19 21:33:58 n900fly... now there's an app! Dec 19 21:34:03 From what repository should I grab random unmodified Debian packages compiled for Maemo, for things like git-core, tree, or htop? Dec 19 21:34:31 lcuk: x86 Dec 19 21:34:49 i'd hope htop is in 'tools' Dec 19 21:34:50 In case anyone is interested in getting qml development tools "the easy way" - ftp://ftp.trolltech.com/qml/ Dec 19 21:34:58 (windows, osx and linux offered) Dec 19 21:35:08 konttori: you're calling ftp:// easy? Dec 19 21:35:09 konttori, yeah, then couple it with a web server on my machine Dec 19 21:35:13 and have software recitals Dec 19 21:35:22 live concerts Dec 19 21:35:30 with code Dec 19 21:35:33 timeless_mbp do. Dec 19 21:35:43 s/do./I do. Dec 19 21:35:46 timeless_mbp: tools? Dec 19 21:36:12 http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/devtools/maemo5 Dec 19 21:36:43 * konttori just noticed his adsl speed had been bumped up from 2 megs to 8. (noticed it for the first time - yay!) Dec 19 21:37:12 konttori, there is a level where that sort of paradigm break down tho Dec 19 21:37:25 simple composite widgets "work" to a degree Dec 19 21:37:31 konttori: poor you Dec 19 21:37:35 but its the stuff within those widgets that needs filling Dec 19 21:37:36 i have 12mb down Dec 19 21:37:48 My buddy bought a Mini 10v and didn't get the HD LCD Dec 19 21:37:53 and .8mbps up http://www.speedtest.net/ Dec 19 21:37:59 well, for me, getting speed 4x faster than it used to, makes me happy Dec 19 21:38:57 lcuk: what do you mean? You can refer to external js files for logic and to any external data sources for data. Dec 19 21:39:07 * timeless_mbp sighs Dec 19 21:39:11 * timeless_mbp hates mapping things Dec 19 21:39:30 this guy (hi jebba ;)) has a load of dbus message examples on his site: http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Jebba#DBUS . Does anyone have an idea how to switch profiles, from silent to general(?) and vice versa? Dec 19 21:39:34 konttori, how do you draw a mandelbrot set using a composite widget Dec 19 21:39:36 timeless_mbp: thanks! Dec 19 21:40:07 or a fluid dynamics simulation or fly over a world with aliens Dec 19 21:40:21 lcuk: ah. I haven't checked if they have bitmap manipulation, but I would assume you can do that pretty easily with js. Dec 19 21:40:22 you still need actual real code on the metal Dec 19 21:40:25 timeless_mbp: Looks like exactly what I needed. Adding repo now, filing requests for new tools shortly. :) Dec 19 21:40:30 here we go again Dec 19 21:40:37 im not on about simple stuff, how do games get there Dec 19 21:40:39 anyway, for that kind of work, you have a c++ do the work Dec 19 21:40:44 * timeless_mbp frowns Dec 19 21:40:49 ok, so the remote run paradigm breaks Dec 19 21:41:09 lcuk: well, I still think you can code that on js files. Dec 19 21:41:24 haven't had yet enough fun to know for sure Dec 19 21:41:40 * lcuk nods Dec 19 21:41:44 ok... so... Dec 19 21:42:37 anyone here know anyone in warwick? Dec 19 21:44:17 Can Ichange the calaneder date-format with the terminal? Dec 19 21:44:37 * wazd_n800 looks for I-MAX Avatar tickets Dec 19 21:44:55 granden: what do oyu mean? Dec 19 21:44:59 s/oyu/you/ Dec 19 21:45:00 timeless_mbp meant: granden: what do you mean? Dec 19 21:45:20 the date format in the maemo5 calendar is controlled by your locale iirc Dec 19 21:45:27 Damn boot, I'm perfectly able to understand that :) Dec 19 21:45:39 'boot'? Dec 19 21:45:42 timeless_mbp: O Dec 19 21:45:43 Lol Dec 19 21:45:44 bot* Dec 19 21:46:01 Dec 19 21:46:11 Hmm, then its strange. Got swedish keyboard but english language. Dec 19 21:46:14 RST38h, gnite Dec 19 21:46:30 keyboard layout is independently controlled Dec 19 21:46:35 it's in settings>text input Dec 19 21:47:02 timeless_mbp: Argh. Authentication error. Where do I get the right key for that repo? Packaged somewhere? Dec 19 21:47:10 Booo hiss Dec 19 21:47:15 Hi! Should the icon in the deb-control-file be exactly 26x26 pixels or larger? Dec 19 21:47:19 Can't connect my N900 to my N810 in USB host mode Dec 19 21:47:20 JoshTriplett: err Dec 19 21:47:25 afaik the tools repo is open Dec 19 21:47:33 wazd_n800: just came to home in .pl after 16 hours drive.. looks good but will comment better later Dec 19 21:47:53 Stskeeps, ok) Dec 19 21:48:05 Stskeeps, jeez, 16 hours?! Dec 19 21:48:44 timeless_mbp: I mean the key for apt's secure repo authentication. Dec 19 21:48:46 moscow imax is Avatar exclusive)9 Dec 19 21:49:20 timeless_mbp: Signed Release files and such. Dec 19 21:49:38 flux: hey. I dont know that off hand. Dec 19 21:51:42 timeless_mbp: Argh, n900 rebooted. ;) Dec 19 21:53:14 timeless_mbp: Anyway: apt-key knows about a pile of Nokia and Maemo repository signing keys, but the fremantle tools repository doesn't seem to have a signature from any of them. Dec 19 21:53:17 ah, the icons are 48x48 pixels (http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_packaging) Dec 19 21:53:34 JoshTriplett: is this fatal or a warning? Dec 19 21:57:07 timeless_mbp: "Install these packages without verification [y/N]?". Technically overridable, but I shouldn't have to do so to use a repository. I guess I need to file a bug. :) Dec 19 21:57:16 * timeless_mbp shrugs Dec 19 21:57:19 i always get that Dec 19 21:57:23 i've never cared Dec 19 21:57:27 timeless_mbp: Much like an SSL security warning, you *can* override it, but you *shouldn't*. ;) Dec 19 21:57:45 fair enough Dec 19 21:57:53 ime all nokia/maemo repos are misconfigured Dec 19 21:58:08 and i don't actually consider any of the software trustworthy Dec 19 21:58:37 timeless_mbp: "misconfigured" how? Dec 19 21:58:44 bad keys/no keys Dec 19 21:59:00 no useful security on the uploaders Dec 19 22:00:05 * timeless_mbp goes back to panicking Dec 19 22:00:23 timeless_mbp: AFAICT, all the standard repositories have proper signatures as far as APT knows. But sure, that doesn't say anything about the chain of trust for packages before they end up in the repository. Dec 19 22:07:37 gah. loading qt sdk still takes ages even with this 'blazing' 8 Mb connection Dec 19 22:07:58 qt sdk? Dec 19 22:10:37 http://qt.nokia.com/downloads Dec 19 22:10:51 the sdk Dec 19 22:11:05 hey Dec 19 22:11:20 I installed snow leopard few weeks back and I'm still regaining my setup. Dec 19 22:11:32 is there any tutorial on how one can 'add' a chat protocal in the defualt convo's program on maemo Dec 19 22:11:33 ? Dec 19 22:11:59 AakashPatel: extras-devel has multiple new protocols to dl Dec 19 22:12:18 and as such, that also means that the source code for all of those is available from extras builder Dec 19 22:12:28 thus, refer to one of those as your tutorial Dec 19 22:12:41 Ah Dec 19 22:12:54 http://maemo.org/packages/view/rtcom-accounts-plugin-gtalk/ Dec 19 22:12:59 i see Dec 19 22:13:19 except thats the wrong one >.< Dec 19 22:45:38 Does the Images app have a zoom function for zooming in on images/ Dec 19 22:48:40 AakashPatel, we have zoom buttons :) Dec 19 22:48:48 OH YEAH Dec 19 22:48:52 * AakashPatel is a dumbass Dec 19 22:49:04 i've done it before Dec 19 22:49:09 lol guess i forgot Dec 19 22:54:55 Can someone give me a hint on how to debug init scripts? The job is started on package installation (via postinst) but it is not started upon system startup. Dec 19 22:55:07 Could it have something to do with upstart? Dec 19 22:55:24 johnq yes Dec 19 22:56:39 I used update-rc.d jobname defaults to "activate" the init script Dec 19 22:58:52 johnq_: what's the package? Dec 19 22:59:27 jebba: i'm currently creating it Dec 19 23:02:10 whatcha packaging? Dec 19 23:02:56 evopedia Dec 19 23:03:40 jebba: if you want to try, I can upload the package somewhere Dec 19 23:05:31 man, no one is selling a bigger battery for the n900 yet :( Dec 19 23:05:36 i wants it! Dec 19 23:06:01 http://www.reitwiessner.de/openmoko/evopedia_0.2.3-r2_armel.deb Dec 19 23:06:30 sometimes you guys talk about openmoko. was that using maemo or something? Dec 19 23:06:30 the package contains the squashfs kernel module Dec 19 23:07:24 and you need one data file from http://www.reitwiessner.de/openmoko/ (some GB...) Dec 19 23:07:34 Gue Dec 19 23:08:20 Vratha: no, openmoko is also a linux-based phone platform Dec 19 23:08:31 Guess what I just recieved! Dec 19 23:08:35 Vratha: more open but less successful I would say Dec 19 23:08:43 yeah, i thought it was cancelled Dec 19 23:09:17 Vratha: the company support was cancelled, but the community of course continues on Dec 19 23:09:31 yes, but without a company, it's not a phone that's going anywhere Dec 19 23:09:36 they're not making any new phones, right? Dec 19 23:10:03 at the moment they are talking with some university that could produce some hardware Dec 19 23:10:15 ah, i see Dec 19 23:10:24 All they made recently was a wikipedia reader. Dec 19 23:10:26 am i missing something? i'm looking for irreco for n900 Dec 19 23:11:00 Extras devel or testing? Dec 19 23:11:28 timeless_mbp: bug 7141 , by the way. Dec 19 23:11:30 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7141 Fremantle Tools repository not properly signed Dec 19 23:11:40 pretty sure i have devel enabled Dec 19 23:12:05 pwnguin look twice Dec 19 23:12:22 aww nuts Dec 19 23:12:29 johnq_: how you doing evopedia without squashfs? Dec 19 23:12:35 i copied pasted poorly Dec 19 23:12:35 i'd love to check it out for certain Dec 19 23:13:18 does anybody here use dd-wrt? Dec 19 23:13:23 as a vpn server? Dec 19 23:13:34 I just got my n900 yesterday! I'm typing from it right now. Dec 19 23:14:50 Anybody who says it can't multitask well hasn't seen my screen. Dec 19 23:14:52 Macer: nah, i use a sheevaplug with debian installed behind my airport extreme Dec 19 23:14:52 johnq_: I have it installed and it launches. No data yet, no squashfs which is killer (use FUSE possibly?), not optified, but you knew that ;) Dec 19 23:15:26 Is there a way to get /var/log/auth in maemo 5? Dec 19 23:16:09 rdorsch: install syslogd klogd and then edit /etc/syslog.conf (untested) Dec 19 23:16:17 I try to do ssh logins with rsa keys, but for some reason it works only for root not the user Dec 19 23:16:26 Vratha: that just requires that you forward the port to the box? Dec 19 23:16:29 jebba: thanks, let me check Dec 19 23:16:31 rdorsch: try setting a password for user "user" Dec 19 23:16:38 i would honestly just use the dd-wrt stuff since it's small and already on the router Dec 19 23:16:48 just can't seem to get it to connect and am starting to think tmob is blocking the vpn port Dec 19 23:16:55 Macer: you know, acutally, i don't know, because i'm speaking slightly in hyperbole. i do have debian running on a sheevaplug, but i haven't worked on the vpn aspect yet Dec 19 23:16:59 but i would think that's all i need Dec 19 23:17:00 jebba: do you know why that is not needed on the n810? Dec 19 23:17:13 jebba: the squashfs module is inside of the .db Dec 19 23:17:19 rdorsch: no idea, but i *think* i had to add it to do it, though another user said they didnt Dec 19 23:17:26 johnq_: ! wow cool Dec 19 23:17:27 Vratha: heh. well. the problem is that i am not on site so i have to wait til later to figure it out Dec 19 23:17:30 hmm, maybe. i hope tmo isn't blocking that. i just want net neutrality to pass Dec 19 23:17:32 what is "omap2_mcspi" ? is "wl12xx" the Wireless Lan ? Dec 19 23:17:34 but for some reason the stupid thing doesn't seem to let me connect to it Dec 19 23:17:41 :( Dec 19 23:17:48 Vratha: they might ;) Dec 19 23:17:50 i don't know. i would love to have that seutp though Dec 19 23:17:53 phone companies are funny like that Dec 19 23:17:55 jabba: setting a password solved the problem. Dec 19 23:18:03 sprint has wimax in chicago now Dec 19 23:18:06 yeah, they're a bunch of thugs Dec 19 23:18:10 too bad i don't have a wimax n810 that would be kind of awesome Dec 19 23:18:20 yeah Dec 19 23:18:30 i don't think we have wimax in the NYC area Dec 19 23:18:30 n8810 would be a lot more useful if i had gotten the wimax version Dec 19 23:18:31 jebba: should I move everything to opt? Dec 19 23:18:37 but it took like 3 years to get here so it wasn't worth it Dec 19 23:18:56 but i actually might hold off on getting an n900 until nokia releases a wimax version of it :) heh Dec 19 23:19:05 jebba: this is the dump of a small wikipedia: http://vitels.cs.uni-tuebingen.de/dumps/als/wikipedia.squashfs Dec 19 23:19:06 but tmob doesn't look like it has much in the way of 4G plans Dec 19 23:19:22 3G is too latent Dec 19 23:19:23 jebba: could you try it with that? (you have to copy it to /home/user/MyDocs/) Dec 19 23:19:29 johnq_: just so i understand clearly, cuz it surprises me. I'm downloading wget http://vitels.cs.uni-tuebingen.de/dumps/es/wikipedia.squashfs and you say *that* has the squashfs kernel module in it for n900 ???(!) Dec 19 23:19:46 jebba: no, the .deb has the squashfs module Dec 19 23:19:56 grabbing http://vitels.cs.uni-tuebingen.de/dumps/als/wikipedia.squashfs Dec 19 23:20:16 you can also try the es dump, of course Dec 19 23:20:27 grabbing small one for testing Dec 19 23:20:32 fine :-) Dec 19 23:20:36 So far tmobile seems to have decent 3g coverage in chicagoland. Dec 19 23:20:37 i'm just getting 15k/sec ;) Dec 19 23:21:10 though i'm getting 4M/sec to my server. nice ,) Dec 19 23:21:19 Macer: tmo has plans to release LTE Dec 19 23:22:06 2010 or 2011 i think Dec 19 23:22:10 tmo has decent 3g 30 mi. north of NYC Dec 19 23:22:18 dmj726_n900: yeah, 2010 i thought Dec 19 23:22:27 Yep Dec 19 23:22:38 however, even when i hit an HSPA tower, i still get crappy speeds (about 1 Mbps) Dec 19 23:23:00 jebba: should we try a different server? Dec 19 23:23:26 jebba: many thanks for your help :-) Dec 19 23:23:40 [89999.994445] squashfs: version 4.0 (2009/01/31) Phillip Lougher Dec 19 23:23:46 rdorsch: np, that worked? Dec 19 23:23:47 Right now I have a prepaid sim in it and have only ever had 2g on the highway in the middle of nowhere Dec 19 23:24:00 jebba: yes, settting a password worked. Dec 19 23:24:18 jebba: maybe it is not required for the n810, because it comes with an older ssh version Dec 19 23:24:20 Haven't actually used data yet Dec 19 23:24:21 johnq_: just minute more to go. If you have a faster server (i'm in .ar) for the 2 gig file that would be cool. Dec 19 23:24:41 Not unteil we switch plans Dec 19 23:25:00 rdorsch: ok, ya cuz someone here told me setting a password was unnecessary, but i had to do it anyway... ;) Dec 19 23:26:04 Password is important if you don't want to be hacked like an iphone user Dec 19 23:26:43 uh Dec 19 23:26:47 dont run ssh? Dec 19 23:27:18 jebba: I'm now transferring the es file with 11 M/s to another server (3 minutes to go) Dec 19 23:27:18 If you are i meean Dec 19 23:27:47 pwnguin: blasphemy Dec 19 23:29:46 ok, johnq_, got the base file installed. the 15M. It launches, basic page with search box. Dec 19 23:30:03 not sure what to search for though in a small wiki Dec 19 23:30:17 Where should I report bugs about the Maemo OpenSSH packages? I don't see an appropriate component in Bugzilla. Dec 19 23:30:40 JoshTriplett write the uploader Dec 19 23:30:46 woglinde: hrm? Dec 19 23:30:57 woglinde: Ah, took me a moment to parse that. Dec 19 23:31:01 jebba: if you enter a single letter in the search box, you should automatically get a list of articles starting with that letter Dec 19 23:31:05 woglinde: As in, mail the person who uploaded the package? Dec 19 23:31:09 /usr/share/doc/openssh/changelog.Debian.gz Dec 19 23:31:22 should it mention Dec 19 23:31:41 woglinde: Well, not on the device, given docpurge, but I can track it down. :) Dec 19 23:33:01 hmm, johnq_ entering "a" "b" etc, none give me results. Perhaps just an empty db? I see that it quickly does a search as i enter a letter, but get "no results" Dec 19 23:33:55 jebba: let me try Dec 19 23:34:40 jebba: by the way, http://reitwiessner.de/openmoko/es_wikipedia.squashfs is ready Dec 19 23:36:34 johnq_: is that the same as http://vitels.cs.uni-tuebingen.de/dumps/es/wikipedia.squashfs ? Download to both is like really slow, but again, i'm in south america... Dec 19 23:37:27 johnq_: i'm getting 100k from my server which has complete copy: http://www.freemoe.org/users/jebba/scratchbox/wikipedia/wikipedia-es.squashfs Dec 19 23:38:36 now i'm even getting a few hundred k/sec there, but this is still gonna take a couple hours. Dec 19 23:46:32 jebba: i'm getting search results Dec 19 23:47:16 jebba: do you have the file mounted correctly? Are there many directories in /usr/lib/evopedia/articles? Dec 19 23:47:38 ls: /usr/lib/evopedia/articles: No such file or directory Dec 19 23:47:58 ~ $ lsmod |grep squashfs Dec 19 23:47:59 squashfs 22340 0 Dec 19 23:48:39 though i insmod'd squashfs manually (i'm not running stock kernel, but a rebuild of 2.6.28-omap1). Kernel module is happy. How do I mount the image then? Dec 19 23:49:01 johnq_ Dec 19 23:49:28 15699968 Sep 23 12:16 /home/user/MyDocs/wikipedia.squashfs Dec 19 23:52:22 jebba: mount /home/user/MyDocs/wikipedia.squashfs /usr/lib/evopedia/articles -o loop -t squashfs Dec 19 23:52:36 johnq_: here's the problem: Dec 19 23:52:43 you need to mkdir /usr/lib/evopedia/articles somewhere. Dec 19 23:53:08 Mounting Wikipedia data image: mount: mounting /dev/loop0 on /usr/lib/evopedia/articles failed: No such file or directory Dec 19 23:53:28 johnq_: I mkdir /usr/lib/evopedia/articles and now it's ok Dec 19 23:53:50 ya, johnq it's working Dec 19 23:54:37 :) this is FANTASTIC. I'm so glad you did this thanks++++ Dec 19 23:55:20 jebba: ah sorry Dec 19 23:55:36 jebba: you are welcome ;-) Dec 19 23:55:56 jebba: the directory should be created when the .deb is installed. But perhaps it's a problem that it's empty. Dec 19 23:56:52 johnq_: no the directory ISN'T created. /usr/lib/evopedia/articles <-- was not there. A simple mkdir somewhere and make sure it gets packaged up or whatever would fix it. Dec 19 23:57:27 76m til es wikipedia :) /me very happy :) Dec 19 23:58:48 *g* Dec 19 23:58:55 I just finished my asterisk package too :) coming up! Dec 19 23:59:08 jebba: could you check if the evopedia server is restarted upon reboot? Dec 19 23:59:22 hrm Dec 19 23:59:32 i just found a geotag for the south pole Dec 19 23:59:38 well, it's only 79deg south Dec 19 23:59:40 johnq_: will do right now Dec 19 23:59:42 but that's close, right? Dec 20 00:01:31 Is the maemo setup doing a bunch of kexecing? Dec 20 00:01:36 like on shutdown? Dec 20 00:02:13 anyone to write vlc interface for n900? :) Dec 20 00:02:30 In the features it says the n900 supports UPnP Dec 20 00:02:33 i will probably have time to properly package all the essential vlc dependancies Dec 20 00:02:42 ...is that included by default in maemo? Dec 20 00:02:54 AakashPatel: if you mean DLNA stuff, then yes Dec 20 00:03:01 Oh really Dec 20 00:03:05 How would I enable it? Dec 20 00:03:11 at least on my n900 it managed to find music on my dlna server Dec 20 00:03:16 go to music player? Dec 20 00:03:24 Oh Dec 20 00:03:34 i thought you meant you could share to DNLA devices Dec 20 00:03:47 johnq_: did not start up for me. Note, i am using a different kernel, but I did run this: sudo cp -p 2.6.28-omap1/squashfs.ko 2.6.28-omap1-jebba5 ; sudo depmod -ae Dec 20 00:03:50 ahh no idea, probably not Dec 20 00:04:24 jebba: I don't think this is the problem Dec 20 00:06:04 johnq_: works fine if i run sudo /etc/init.d/evopedia start Dec 20 00:08:59 could it be that it is started way too early? Dec 20 00:10:12 ugh, has anyone built iptables for fremantle or am i blind? Dec 20 00:12:39 johnq_: you start at S20. lighttpd starts then too, but DOESN'T start for me. Lots starts after S20. ssh which does start is S55. Dec 20 00:13:11 there is also /etc/event.d ... Dec 20 00:14:10 johnq_: fwiw, ssh isn't in event.d Dec 20 00:15:05 jebba: it is on my device (sshd) Dec 20 00:15:31 swc|666: i cant see it either Dec 20 00:15:47 thresh, unbelievable :s Dec 20 00:15:47 johnq_: you're correct, sshd is there Dec 20 00:16:11 swc|666: i suppose it is just a matter of rebuilding a debian package Dec 20 00:16:15 thresh, i'm still trying to figure out how to use scratchbox to build debian packages Dec 20 00:16:18 gtg catch some sleep Dec 20 00:16:23 there are howtos :) Dec 20 00:16:40 swc|666: iptables wouldn't work with stock kernel because NAT modules won't work. See: http://www.freemoe.org/users/jebba/kernel/modules/TESTS/modprobe-test.log Dec 20 00:17:14 well, sry, i was assuming you were wanting to do NAT. iptables may work for other purposes. Dec 20 00:17:49 jebba, i've got scratchbox right now setep for building a new kernel .. wish there was a way to make menuconfig Dec 20 00:18:37 Connected to Asterisk 1.6.2.0-2 currently running on Nokia-N900-42-11 (pid = 1601) Dec 20 00:18:37 jebba, also.. Dec 20 00:18:42 Jaffa: ping Dec 20 00:18:56 swc|666: make it out of your scratchbox: ARCH=arm make menuconfig Dec 20 00:18:59 have u tried objcopy --strip-debug -R .modinfo -R __versions .ko ?? Dec 20 00:19:16 swc|666: have't tried the stip debug thing Dec 20 00:19:24 that might take care of the Unknown symbol in module issues Dec 20 00:19:30 s/might/should/ Dec 20 00:19:31 swc|666 meant: that should take care of the Unknown symbol in module issues Dec 20 00:19:52 swc|666: there are some hints how to make menuconfig working on scratchbox Dec 20 00:20:05 cehteh, oh? Dec 20 00:20:06 on the wiki. .. needs a small patch to the kernel build system iirc Dec 20 00:20:13 sweett... Dec 20 00:20:15 * swc|666 looks... Dec 20 00:20:21 sweet* Dec 20 00:20:28 Jaffa: have created rpm of tablet-encode for fedora and posted it to rpmfusion .. it would be nice to have some icon for gui and for menu .. have you got any idea about it? thanks Dec 20 00:20:32 cehteh: ya, but a bit more probs than that I ran into. Just exit scratchbox and run: ARCH=arm make menuconfig Dec 20 00:20:59 i never tried to build a kernel .. still no device Dec 20 00:21:30 cehteh, damn i'm blind .. Dec 20 00:21:30 http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Kernel_and_Debugging_Guide/Maemo_Kernel_Guide#Using_make_menuconfig Dec 20 00:21:31 well i now ordered from amazon warehouse deal too 478 Eur .. maybe damanged packaging Dec 20 00:21:41 will arrive on 23th! Dec 20 00:22:10 cehteh, yea i just got mine..cancelled my rig amazon order because they kept pushing expected date, so i *overpaid* with another supplier Dec 20 00:22:24 $810 after all was said/done :/ Dec 20 00:22:35 at least i can hold a device in my hand then .. maybe i send that back later (30 days trial) .. and wait for my regular preordered device which will have a newer firmware and stuff when it becomes available Dec 20 00:22:56 swc|666: i have lots of info on my wikipage too about kernel http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Jebba Dec 20 00:23:23 cehteh, yea i get the random reboots occasionally -- 32wd_to crap Dec 20 00:23:31 ah yea! Dec 20 00:23:41 jebba, now i recognize your name :D Dec 20 00:23:54 heh .. if there is *any* flaw i will send it back Dec 20 00:24:09 30 day trial? Dec 20 00:24:13 amazon Dec 20 00:24:58 jebba, if i were to do ARCH=arm make menuconfig out of scratchbox, do i need to set some env variables for the compilers or are they already set? (havent got that far with looking at which vars are needed for maemo cross tools) Dec 20 00:25:37 actualyl lemme try this wiki way first and see if i Dec 20 00:27:01 swc|666: just in your /scratcbox/home/swc/linux-2.6.28 directory or wherever the kernel is. You don't need to do any other options. This is just for making the .config Dec 20 00:28:00 then pop back into the scratchbox to make the .deb or kernel itself. Dec 20 00:28:35 (well, i usually just keep a terminal open that is in the /scratchbox/users/jebba/home/jebba/foo dir that isn't actually chrooted to do other things, then have a few chrooted terminals open Dec 20 00:29:09 sweet, makes sense Dec 20 00:36:39 jebba: putting a script in /etc/event.d works... Dec 20 00:36:48 cool :) Dec 20 00:37:50 nokia messaging is real shit Dec 20 00:37:58 "attachment too large to downoad" Dec 20 00:38:03 wtf? Dec 20 00:38:18 It's over 9000. Dec 20 00:38:25 http://media.fukung.net/images/18272/apple.jpg Here is your alternative, Arkenoi Dec 20 00:38:30 what? 9000? Dec 20 00:39:02 Connected to Asterisk 1.6.2.0-2 currently running on Nokia-N900-42-11 (pid = 1692) Dec 20 00:39:04 pupnik_, i hope there must be another one ;-) Dec 20 00:39:59 jebba: actually it does not _really_ work, it just executes something Dec 20 00:40:53 ignore +pupnik_ +luke-jr_ Dec 20 00:41:08 that is indeed advisable for many Dec 20 00:41:26 be sure to regexp the _ and __ Dec 20 00:41:26 ... Dec 20 00:41:51 lol Dec 20 00:41:52 btw it was a joke Dec 20 00:42:11 i like iphones. they're beautiful, just not for me Dec 20 00:43:00 lame excuse to be in a apple store Dec 20 00:44:28 nokia has *balls* to do this open-source thing. and expose itself to all the whining, bitching, yammering public in this way. Dec 20 00:47:05 i just hope there will be proper imap-idle or at least syncml support Dec 20 00:47:19 nokia messaging is almost non-functional, troubles all the way Dec 20 00:47:29 claws-mail is in testing or extras :) Dec 20 00:48:42 does it support push mode? via imap idle or something? seems that checking for email every 5 minutes 1) gives you up to 5 minutes delay 2) drains battery more than online push Dec 20 00:48:49 i am not a heavy email user, but i have huge mailboxes and use mail sometimes Dec 20 00:49:02 and modest doesnt even apeal me a little bit Dec 20 00:49:16 * timeless_mbp shrugs Dec 20 00:49:34 Arkenoi: yes full imap idle support and lots of bell and whistle claws is prolly the best mail client out there Dec 20 00:49:34 modest works if your server's MfE and its are compatible Dec 20 00:49:41 if not, you're going to be unhappy w/ pretty much *every* mail client in the world Dec 20 00:49:53 hmm, the builder doesnt seem to be advancing for awhile. Was humming along pretty good for the past couple days. Wonder if it needs a kick. Dec 20 00:49:56 MfE? Dec 20 00:50:01 You are currently using 6431 MB (86%) of your 7403 MB. Dec 20 00:50:06 that's my primary mailbox Dec 20 00:50:12 can you imagine trying to speak imap to it? Dec 20 00:50:25 Inbox (350015) Dec 20 00:50:31 that's the number of unread *conversations* Dec 20 00:50:41 MfE/ActiveSync Dec 20 00:50:57 time to unsubscribe to a few things it sounds like.... Dec 20 00:51:06 why should i? :) Dec 20 00:51:12 it works fine in my primary ui Dec 20 00:51:13 timeless: looks similar for me .. just more subfolders Dec 20 00:51:17 sweet, compiling my first kernel for maemo Dec 20 00:51:27 * swc|666 waits for errors Dec 20 00:51:33 cehteh: how many messages do you get in a minute? :) Dec 20 00:51:41 while modest cant even display threads or? (i didnt found that option) Dec 20 00:51:50 correct, it can't Dec 20 00:51:54 and you cant select which folder to subscribe Dec 20 00:52:07 timeless_mbp, actually i do not see any technical advantage of MfE/activesync over any other technology (syncml, imap idle, whatever) so i cannot clearly see why this one should work and others should not ;-) Dec 20 00:52:14 $ du -sh Maildir/ Dec 20 00:52:14 1.4G Maildir/ Dec 20 00:52:21 on my mailserver :) Dec 20 00:52:32 cehteh: that's a pittance Dec 20 00:52:46 gmail is hosting >6gb for me, in one mailbox :) Dec 20 00:52:54 i have my own server Dec 20 00:53:01 i'm sorry :) Dec 20 00:53:05 haha Dec 20 00:53:08 what a waste of electricity ;-) Dec 20 00:53:31 well it does a lot more useful stuff :) Dec 20 00:53:38 and what a waste of adsense possibilities! Dec 20 00:53:39 i doubt that =b Dec 20 00:53:40 and its a via C3 .. Dec 20 00:54:08 primary/secondary dns and some other services Dec 20 00:54:19 btw what was the name of dedicated gmail client? was it ported to maemo5? Dec 20 00:54:40 Arkenoi: never heard of one Dec 20 00:54:47 cehteh, how is google supposed to offer you content-tailored ads if you store your e-mails on your own server?! Dec 20 00:55:02 there was one for os2008 Dec 20 00:55:13 come on, google will find a solution :) Dec 20 00:55:25 they will sue you for cutting into their profits! Dec 20 00:55:48 yeah someday we have to pay google for not using them Dec 20 00:56:02 like german television :P Dec 20 00:59:12 anyone know how to get a color terminal, local and/or remote? Dec 20 00:59:24 export TERM=xterm-color doesn't work Dec 20 01:00:20 jebba, i was JUST looking for the same info Dec 20 01:00:48 for some reason i thought i had it working at some point, but may have been imagination Dec 20 01:01:56 lol Dec 20 01:03:18 swc|666: ah ya,. I do have it working with TERM=xterm-color in things like vim from remote Dec 20 01:03:36 sweet Dec 20 01:03:45 and locally, but ls and asterisk console aren't working with it Dec 20 01:04:09 wtfubunut Dec 20 01:04:12 i wish there was an iax2 soft client Dec 20 01:04:35 softphone* Dec 20 01:07:05 for n900, ya for sure. Dec 20 01:07:13 telepathy-iax2 would rule. Dec 20 01:07:22 yep! Dec 20 01:07:25 cuz then could just plug into the rest of the system Dec 20 01:09:41 X-Fade: fyi, build server appears wedged (nothing advancing, and nothing "huge" pending that would tie it up AFAICT) Dec 20 01:11:03 I would like to produce an advertisement for a maemo app. Dec 20 01:12:06 phew, no errors in kern build .. Dec 20 01:21:51 :) Dec 20 01:42:28 anyone experience WLAN loss under load (i.e. rsync over ssh) Dec 20 01:43:24 Yes, I think so. Dec 20 01:43:30 I just ran rsync again. Dec 20 01:43:46 no I need to reboot my N900 to get it to connect back up to WLAN Dec 20 01:43:52 Oh, then no. Dec 20 01:44:24 havent had that. Definitely had it pause quite often though Dec 20 01:44:25 derf: I've only pished a gigabyte or so to the n900, and no problems Dec 20 01:44:46 I rsync the entire device quite often and havent had probs with that Dec 20 01:44:55 All I know is my first attempt to rsync backup the whole thing (1.7 GB) failed. Dec 20 01:45:05 what speed it the eMMC ? I have a Class6 16Gb microSD I am saving to Dec 20 01:45:06 I tried it again and it worked, so no worries. Dec 20 01:45:29 copying over 2.1G wikipedia-es.squashfs right now going fine, fwiw Dec 20 01:45:48 derf: you make sure you're not rsyncing things like /proc, right? Dec 20 01:45:52 odin_: I got ~8M/second IIRC Dec 20 01:45:54 jebba: I'm not an idiot. Dec 20 01:45:54 I've never had a problem with 'sftp' but I am using rsync today, as its a tree... what are you using ? Dec 20 01:45:56 odin_: write speed Dec 20 01:46:25 derf: i wasn't suggesting you were an idiot, but i'll be sure to not suggest things in the future, if you prefer. Dec 20 01:46:56 jebba, what method are you using to transfer 2.1Gb ? Dec 20 01:47:13 odin_: right now just scp. 1.2Mbs Dec 20 01:47:22 ok thats same as sftp is not it Dec 20 01:47:32 odin_: ya more or less Dec 20 01:47:36 rsync is special in that is uses 2 processes and non-blocking IO Dec 20 01:47:55 I should mention i also do the rsync in an ssh tunnel Dec 20 01:48:14 in a tunnel or over ssh ? Dec 20 01:48:43 a tunnel would mean using an rsync server on port 873, and using SSH just to port forward (i.e. tunnel connections) Dec 20 01:49:14 where as rsync-over-ssh is just opening a non-interactive SSH session and execution the rsync command at the remote end and using SSHs tty link send/recv to do IO Dec 20 01:50:08 rsync -av -e 'ssh -l root' mydir 192.168.1.1:/media/mmc1/dirthere/ Dec 20 01:51:29 I might see if "ssh -c arcfour" crypto speeds up the IO Dec 20 01:52:19 odin_: http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Jebba#Backups Dec 20 01:52:40 Does the SoC have a crypto unit? Dec 20 01:53:53 hmm, yep, buildserver very much looks wedged :( Or maybe it's gone back to being slow as hell. Either way, it was moving fine thru packages earlier, but no more. Dec 20 01:55:06 Is there a centralised per-app 'forum' type thing? Dec 20 01:55:51 when i build my own kernel and kernel modules, what is the correct way to build a dpkg of the modules? Dec 20 01:56:35 swc|666: you can just "dpkg-buildpackage -j1 -rfakeroot -b" Dec 20 01:57:57 jebba, ok thx .. thse were the flags i was unclear of Dec 20 01:58:06 s/thse/those/ Dec 20 01:58:08 swc|666 meant: jebba, ok thx .. those were the flags i was unclear of Dec 20 02:07:36 jebba, one more question .. when i run that it seems like it rm's my .config .. how do i make my custom .config persist when running that ^ ? Dec 20 02:10:26 ah nm Dec 20 02:10:29 i see now Dec 20 02:10:45 i have to diff it Dec 20 02:12:18 swc|666: see here for some scripts I use: http://www.freemoe.org/users/jebba/scratchbox/kernel/ and here: http://www.freemoe.org/users/jebba/scratchbox/kernel/freemoe-2.6.28/kernel-2.6.28/debian/ Dec 20 02:12:31 hint: you probably want to do a rx51_defconfig of some sort. Dec 20 02:12:56 kk Dec 20 02:12:59 that's the live scratchbox i build things in, so you can see various other kernels and changes in surrounding dirs Dec 20 02:13:09 the whole mess, right there ;) Dec 20 02:13:40 swc|666: what you building a custom kernel for anyway? Dec 20 02:14:09 jebba, extra filesystem support and netfilter stuff mostly (for now) Dec 20 02:14:26 ya, sounds same here ;) Dec 20 02:14:43 oh, and extra crypto extensions Dec 20 02:15:35 does the WLAN have to stop to take a data connection ? Dec 20 02:15:41 no Dec 20 02:15:47 but it does Dec 20 02:15:48 or receive an SMS Dec 20 02:15:57 Not for SMS Dec 20 02:16:04 it needs "policy routing" compiled into the kernel to do it properly Dec 20 02:16:17 However, the default software won't bring up two IP interfaces at once Dec 20 02:16:34 this way, so long as GPRS and WLAN use different private IP subnet, you can bind the local connection to the correct interface address and have 2 default routes Dec 20 02:17:14 yeah Dec 20 02:17:14 this also means you dont loose connectivity on either as the other one goes up/down, evem for already running connection using the default route Dec 20 02:17:36 Though I don't imagine many people will find a use for the GPRS subnet Dec 20 02:17:52 whereas a route to the wlan subnet would be handy - even when gprs is active Dec 20 02:18:00 no the point is that to take MMS (if thats ever implemented, you need to bring WLAN down as it is) Dec 20 02:18:01 I suppose GPRS DNS maybe Dec 20 02:18:45 ah Dec 20 02:18:58 odin_: beware of spelling errors Dec 20 02:19:08 GPRS needs to stop to take a call though Dec 20 02:19:14 lest i loose the wrath of a dictionary against your for losing track of your o's Dec 20 02:19:44 Unsure about EDGE, not with 3g though Dec 20 02:19:56 the big problem w/ multiple addresses Dec 20 02:20:02 UI Dec 20 02:20:04 is inheritance of bindings to applications Dec 20 02:20:07 And edge cases Dec 20 02:20:09 and that Dec 20 02:20:28 bringing down wlan isn't needed Dec 20 02:20:32 sorry timeless did I make a bad spelling error ? or are you warning me it's late and you are about to make some too :) Dec 20 02:20:38 you did Dec 20 02:21:02 Sometimes you want to do 'silly' things - that aren't easy for the software to pick up. Dec 20 02:21:05 odin_: s/loose/lose .. Dec 20 02:21:10 whatever. Dec 20 02:21:29 For example I sometimes want to drop off wlan and go to 3g - simply as my wlan connection is just fine - but the DSL router behind it has fallen over. Dec 20 02:21:45 * timeless_mbp sighs Dec 20 02:21:48 timeless_mbp: is there anyone besides X-Fade that can look at the build server? Dec 20 02:21:55 often i want to keep an ssh connection bound via one thing Dec 20 02:22:01 and let other things get pot luck Dec 20 02:22:06 timeless: yeah, that too. Dec 20 02:22:06 I type phonetically these days, for some reason Dec 20 02:22:14 but allowing a user to try to explain that is a disaster Dec 20 02:22:21 timeless: transparent vpn goodness would be good Dec 20 02:22:21 maybe I should pick up a musical instrument Dec 20 02:22:22 and that's assuming a non linux kernel Dec 20 02:22:51 odin_: i claim that you can't use phonics as an excuse in this case Dec 20 02:23:03 oo is defined Dec 20 02:23:21 oooooooooooooooooooo Dec 20 02:23:36 I don't think its my keyboard either.... let me check out my chair... Dec 20 02:23:44 the problem is somewhere around here Dec 20 02:24:12 now you are going to hang me over the use of "its" when I meant to say "it's" ? Dec 20 02:24:21 yes Dec 20 02:24:28 lestype da txt speak init xx Dec 20 02:24:34 Picking on people for grammar and typing is silly. Dec 20 02:24:41 When you can rip them for content. Dec 20 02:24:47 if you say you loooooooose, it's not a typo anymore, right? :) Dec 20 02:25:03 nope, because that is not defined ! Dec 20 02:25:04 no, it's "cat got your keyboard" Dec 20 02:25:17 * luke-jr_ hates when people change APIs out from under him -.- Dec 20 02:25:58 ah well policy routing is something to look into in the new year then, hmm I look to be busy for 2010 it seems Dec 20 02:26:07 SpeedEvil: it's hard to pick on people for content when you can't understand what they're saying Dec 20 02:26:11 Policy routing would be nice. Dec 20 02:26:25 * timeless_mbp still likes a request for people to "deliver changes in smaller Junks" Dec 20 02:26:38 :) Dec 20 02:26:59 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junk_(ship) Dec 20 02:27:19 (junks are rather large ships) Dec 20 02:27:25 anyone know where to get a copy of Windows Live Messager for S60 (Nokia E72? I did not buy it from Nokia, so my mobile vendor want to rip me for it) Dec 20 02:28:05 is that like an MS Masseuse? Dec 20 02:29:03 odin_: http://europe.nokia.com/support/download-software/windows-live Dec 20 02:29:11 http://symbianv3.com/new-windows-live-messenger-perfect/ Dec 20 02:34:18 thanks, kevloral that link I already looked at, does not provide a SIS but forces me back to Vodafone's (my MNO) pay-per-month version of the same thing Dec 20 02:35:33 timeless_mbp, this one has a ZIP with signed SIS, but phone doesn't have cert installed and it seems it wont let me override it (it just aborts) Dec 20 02:36:26 odin_: some phones have a way to disable the cert requirement Dec 20 02:37:10 that is already in effect on my phone (but the installation of the dep.sisx doen't even let you examine cert, it just rejects installation, maybe it a DRM mechanism) Dec 20 02:38:44 it rejects it on the basis I do not have the/a/some cert installed (presumably the signer), other unsigned or signed but I don't have the CA apps, offer me basic info and the ability to view the cert Dec 20 02:39:12 ah well I guess no MSN for holidays then Dec 20 02:39:32 evopedia--offline version of wikipedia is working :))))) Dec 20 02:40:34 though database appears to have quite a few errors. hmm. Dec 20 02:42:18 how big is the db ? Dec 20 02:42:56 like lots of articles are prefaced with places like Larrún (Cortázar article) or Tampico etc. (e.g. articles about Linux talk about cities in mexico). But if you scroll down far enough, the correct article is there. Dec 20 02:43:03 I have the spanish one which is 2G Dec 20 02:43:16 yes this N900 WLAN problem, needs a reboot to fix... does the kernel properly Opps into dmesg ? Dec 20 02:44:40 could anyone please check if n900 recorder is working properly? just left it running for, say, 10 minutes.. i wonder if i am the only one who experience the bug and trying to guess what may trigger it.. Dec 20 02:44:54 s/left/leave/ Dec 20 02:44:55 Arkenoi meant: could anyone please check if n900 recorder is working properly? just leave it running for, say, 10 minutes.. i wonder if i am the only one who experience the bug and trying to guess what may trigger it.. Dec 20 02:48:22 Arkenoi: i'm trying now Dec 20 02:49:38 Arkenoi: i appear to have 2 apps: maemo-recorder (0.3.0) and recorder (0.3.2) Dec 20 02:50:28 ah, maemo-recorder looks like old cruft. removing Dec 20 02:51:00 Arkenoi: you need to make recorder conflict with maemo-recorder Dec 20 02:51:11 jebba: actually both are crashing for me, but old one seems to stay longer ;-) Dec 20 02:51:23 well, i have 3 min with 0.3.2 Dec 20 02:51:44 timeless_mbp, nope, i removed another one while trying any of two Dec 20 02:51:44 I dont even see a binary to run in maemo-recorder Dec 20 02:51:53 maemo_recorder for both Dec 20 02:52:22 what's the path? dpkg -L maemo-recorder doesn't show any executable AFAICT Dec 20 02:52:31 no doubt there will be conflict if you keep both Dec 20 02:52:41 hmm Dec 20 02:52:50 i'll have a look now Dec 20 02:53:09 maemo-recorder just looks like a pile of directories and is broken basically. Dec 20 02:53:16 mis-packaged Dec 20 02:54:06 jebba: well, i tried removing it before installing recorder and the later still crashed after that Dec 20 02:54:22 well at 6 min here no probs Dec 20 02:54:43 WAV, 1ch, 16kHz, 16bits Dec 20 02:55:06 cound it be that some remains of maemo-recorder weren't deleted properly and caused recorder to malfunction? Dec 20 02:55:11 dont see a way to actually set any levels or anything Dec 20 02:55:25 try dpkg -P maemo-recorder Dec 20 02:55:29 but i doubt it Dec 20 02:55:53 run (& install) htop and see if anything else is pegging cpu or something Dec 20 02:56:01 (or just plain top i suppose) Dec 20 02:58:01 quite stange but before i installed "recorder" the same binary name (maemo_recorder) used to run old recorder despite the fact it was not listed in the package Dec 20 02:58:38 i just passed 10 min no probs, stopping Arkenoi Dec 20 02:58:47 playback is fine Dec 20 02:58:58 hmm Dec 20 02:59:10 done dpkg -P, will see if anything changes Dec 20 02:59:43 did you launch it from command line or from icon? try blowing both of them out and install just recorder. **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Dec 20 02:59:56 2009