**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Dec 22 02:59:56 2009 Dec 22 03:03:18 the n900 feels like a desktop computr for me. i think nokia is amazing Dec 22 03:03:38 like a thinkpad, running lightweight distribution Dec 22 03:04:19 * pwnguin wishes the n900 supported USB keyboards and mice Dec 22 03:04:23 '' Dec 22 03:04:38 and maybe USB audio out? Dec 22 03:04:41 i closed the xchat window scrolling Dec 22 03:05:18 then I could easily build a carputer dock Dec 22 03:05:22 770 plus usb dac might be a good hifi system Dec 22 03:06:28 ive got the perfect spot to mount a NIT in my car Dec 22 03:07:44 ive seen pics from a guy who build his own, with the CPU in the glovebox Dec 22 03:21:22 hmm, after the fsck the app manager is acting a bit flaky. Dec 22 03:21:36 Says there are no applications installed. Dec 22 03:22:34 prolly they are now all in lost+found :P Dec 22 03:23:02 I think it was the repos Dec 22 03:23:12 Just having them listed caused it not to list apps Dec 22 03:23:52 If anyone's curious I can give the exact error message but if your device says no apps installed in uninstall or won't let you install new ones then disable your non-standard repos and it should display your stuff. Dec 22 03:26:24 anyone know of a photo gallery webapp that might play nicely with the photo sharing thing on n900? Dec 22 03:26:42 ok, not flickr. something apt-gettable on my own server Dec 22 03:28:28 also Dec 22 03:28:30 http://www.futurepicture.org/ Dec 22 03:42:51 hey cool i can segv strace :P Dec 22 03:43:28 (not the supervised program, but strace itself) Dec 22 04:07:01 wtf fedex is LIGHTNING FAST :\ Dec 22 04:07:43 N900 picked up at store at 7h00, leaved new york at 9h30, now it's at cleanrance at montreal Dec 22 04:12:45 gtessier00: on the one hand, fedex does air freight Dec 22 04:13:08 on the other hand, have you ever taken a high school chemistry class? Dec 22 04:14:40 huh yeah Dec 22 04:14:44 what's the point Dec 22 04:14:46 :P Dec 22 04:15:22 sometimes, you take a look at the data and decide that version of reality is wrong and start working backwards Dec 22 04:15:31 ? Dec 22 04:15:35 "hmm this box says it never left new york!" Dec 22 04:15:54 "just make something up bob" Dec 22 04:16:11 well, arrival time is tomorrow before 17h00 Dec 22 04:17:00 and.. could you imagine how much $$ it would cost to only make ''figure'' that it departed from new york, while it's not... I don't think a serious company would do that lol Dec 22 04:19:14 * Arkenoi is going to order that "1700mAh" battery just to check Dec 22 04:20:17 * gtessier00 just to check if it can fuck up your N900 :P Dec 22 04:22:50 * pupnik misses Unique311 Dec 22 04:23:14 i just segfaulted sbox shell setting an environment variable Dec 22 04:23:28 cool eh Dec 22 04:23:49 it is almost surely somemthing instable with my system Dec 22 04:26:04 gtessier, i doubt it will fuck it up really badly, never seen batteries *that* bad ;-) Dec 22 04:28:17 * Arkenoi is reinstalling newer debian-chroot, will see if it is finally usable Dec 22 04:35:36 when things fail to build, my new favorite happines is deleting the superfluous test from ./configure Dec 22 04:35:50 i fear this will not work in autobuilder Dec 22 04:36:43 so i might as well put it here - our libpng fails to link on png_decompress_chunk Dec 22 04:37:08 which i see had a security vulnerabilty a while back Dec 22 04:48:09 is there a rummage pile of our compiled dependencies... Dec 22 04:49:18 looking at how many hours i sank into http://pupnik.de/deps/deps.html Dec 22 04:50:05 jebba, any progress with the modules? i failed :| Dec 22 04:50:52 swc|666: you are uploading kernel modules for fremantle? can handbuilt debs be accepted? Dec 22 04:51:37 pupnik, no idea .. i'm just trying to build kernel modules for freemantle, getitng them to actually work first Dec 22 04:51:49 pupnik, have you built some modules? Dec 22 04:52:14 no, someone nice built 'joydev' and uqm depends on it but has no candidate Dec 22 04:52:33 what modules are you making? :) Dec 22 04:52:44 noooooooooooo :( package is stucked at customs :( Dec 22 04:52:47 clearance delay :( Dec 22 04:53:01 pupnik, trying to get various iptables modules working Dec 22 04:53:59 nice Dec 22 04:54:44 we could use a simple zonealarm-style program to get alerts for proggies accessing net Dec 22 04:54:50 very useful for people on roaming Dec 22 04:56:06 pupnik, i just can't understand why they didnt build the important iptables modules from the get go Dec 22 04:56:18 and the iptables binary Dec 22 04:56:20 limited time available Dec 22 05:12:31 does maemo sdk vm need /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/99proxy or not Dec 22 05:12:47 wgetting deps sux Dec 22 05:13:59 http://discussion.forum.nokia.com/forum/showpost.php?p=683705&postcount=6 this may be correct Dec 22 05:15:01 this will cost me many more hours Dec 22 05:15:55 ahh 99proxy was made for nokia corp network Dec 22 05:20:08 I still don't think I've successfully been able to get the SDK going on one of my ubuntu 9.10 systems... I think I'm readin the wrong docs Dec 22 05:22:17 SplasPood: are we *supposed* to not be able to apt-get or wget or ping or dig or traceroute etc etc etc from within armel-target? Dec 22 05:23:55 SplasPood, did you try the GUI installer? Dec 22 05:23:58 * pupnik holds up a mirror and glances darkly Dec 22 05:31:01 did some1 here ordered his n900 using fedex ? Dec 22 05:34:57 nope Dec 22 05:35:12 Hit http://repository.maemo.org fremantle/tools/non-free Packages Dec 22 05:35:12 Reading package lists... Error! Dec 22 05:35:12 E: Problem parsing dependency Depends Dec 22 05:35:12 E: Error occurred while processing freeciv-data (NewVersion1) Dec 22 05:35:12 E: Problem with MergeList /var/lib/apt/lists/repository.maemo.org_extras-testing_dists_fremantle_non-free_binary-armel_Packages Dec 22 05:36:01 http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/devtools/maemo5#Installation occurred since adding tools as shown on this page Dec 22 05:46:55 WARNING: mergeliist corrupted after addinng tools to N900 Dec 22 06:10:44 Ugh, Red Pill for .deb on Planet. . . . Dec 22 06:13:45 GAN900: do you know if 'quilt' is available for fremantle sdk? Dec 22 06:14:06 that is a fun one to be missing for debian packaging Dec 22 06:14:43 it is just scripts afaik, so i do have thee actual quilt commands installed, just no fitting package to satisfy deps Dec 22 06:24:41 heh Dec 22 06:27:39 who's working on apps to control the camera? Dec 22 06:31:34 hmm. first extras-testing tanks and now t.m.o is down Dec 22 06:38:54 China is planning to enforce a whitelist on foreign domains: in particular, any e-commerce will have to register locally and obey Chinese law before they get whitelisted. Domains will otherwise be 'irresolvable' to Chinese Internet users. Meanwhile, the government is promoting this campaign heavily, calling it a 'fresh start.' Dec 22 06:39:12 hehe Dec 22 06:39:36 ... Dec 22 06:40:01 so just don't use their DNS servers? Dec 22 06:40:23 they ain't stupid Dec 22 06:40:37 <.< Dec 22 06:40:43 so, I guess they will block outside DNS Dec 22 06:40:54 SSL DNS Dec 22 06:40:56 <.< Dec 22 06:40:57 and address ranges too Dec 22 06:41:01 hmm Dec 22 06:41:03 Tor Dec 22 06:43:13 Oh, interesting, Nokia just announced a new flagship phone it seems Dec 22 06:43:15 moo tekojo Dec 22 06:44:33 link? Dec 22 06:44:43 a moment, verifying Dec 22 06:44:55 moo RST38h Dec 22 06:45:11 * wiretapped boards BART Dec 22 06:45:31 RST38h huh, where, I want to see! Dec 22 06:45:50 No, that was bullshit Dec 22 06:46:13 Another blogger caught by the "N00" thing on a developer sample Dec 22 06:46:47 wtf kind of a name is moo tekojo Dec 22 06:47:00 tekojo: BTW, I finally found a way to get rid of the fugly "no-playing" animated icon =) Dec 22 06:47:43 It is a total of 8 PNGs (4 in 64x64 + 4 in scalable) that have to be replaced with something relevant. GNOME volume control icons work, for example. Dec 22 06:47:57 no-playing icon? Dec 22 06:48:06 noW-playing, sorry Dec 22 06:48:17 The up and down bars? Dec 22 06:49:05 are they in the icons folder? Dec 22 06:49:15 yep Dec 22 06:49:52 I can probably package the new ones into a .deb, but still wonder why you do not supply better ones officially :) Dec 22 06:50:22 no idea, maybe ask for them to be added to theme maker? Dec 22 06:51:19 luke-jr I would take that name as a compliment :-) Dec 22 06:52:20 talk appears down Dec 22 06:53:03 dmj7261 works for me Dec 22 06:54:13 is it slow for you? Dec 22 06:55:11 I just got the main talk page to load, just had to wait a few minutes for it to find the site. Dec 22 06:56:03 dmj7261 slower than normal at this time of day Dec 22 06:56:23 I've been waiting 5 minutes for a page to load. Dec 22 06:56:43 is talk being down bad? Dec 22 06:56:43 5 second lags yes, but not minutes Dec 22 06:57:18 it's not my connection either. Dec 22 06:57:33 tekojo: Adding them to the theme maker is a mighty good idea. Just keep in mind there are two sets (one for the widget, another for the media player itself) Dec 22 06:57:41 <-- ok, typed it right this time Dec 22 06:58:20 RST38h contact konttori Dec 22 06:58:26 ping konttori_nokia Dec 22 07:05:10 Is there a good way to control gdigicam from the terminal? Dec 22 07:09:08 dmj7261: that is a free camera app that works on N900? Dec 22 07:11:45 I'm looking to set the focus manually. Dec 22 07:16:31 gdigicam is a library that controls the camera Dec 22 07:24:11 find /sys -name '*focus*' might help Dec 22 07:25:50 w00t, finally got these damned iptables/nat modules working ffs Dec 22 07:25:58 lol Dec 22 07:26:03 that seems to be a common topic for many Dec 22 07:26:06 congrats Dec 22 07:26:09 thx Dec 22 07:26:35 now for the iptable sbinary 0o Dec 22 07:26:42 s/sbinary/binary/ Dec 22 07:26:44 swc|666 meant: now for the iptable binary 0o Dec 22 07:27:00 ty infobot Dec 22 07:28:35 ~botsnack Dec 22 07:28:36 aw, gee, DocScrutinizer51 Dec 22 07:30:16 does this mean the repo is down?? http://pastie.org/752817 Dec 22 07:30:23 morning Dec 22 07:30:33 gm jaem_n900 Dec 22 07:30:37 who's in charge of extras-testing? Dec 22 07:30:40 o/ all Dec 22 07:30:48 jaem_n900: X-Fade... Dec 22 07:30:51 ah Dec 22 07:31:28 I can't stick around, but can someone poke him for me? apt is bailing while trying to parse the list from -testing Dec 22 07:31:40 on update, that is Dec 22 07:31:43 same Dec 22 07:31:52 i believe that the performance problems are known Dec 22 07:31:55 it is not down Dec 22 07:32:07 pupnik, not what I meant Dec 22 07:32:22 it fetches the list fine, but then bails while reading it Dec 22 07:32:28 yes, it's worse now for a couple of days as the old servers are being copied Dec 22 07:32:31 ah yes, that is new Dec 22 07:32:39 it doesn't like the freeciv-data package entry Dec 22 07:32:49 same prob here jaem_n900 - freeciv-data Dec 22 07:32:56 ouch Dec 22 07:33:07 okay, just wanted to make sure someone knew about it Dec 22 07:33:16 it makes HAM very sad :( Dec 22 07:33:21 will ping him Dec 22 07:33:26 and apt just complains loudly Dec 22 07:33:28 thanks :P Dec 22 07:33:31 night Dec 22 07:33:32 yeah and dont go editing apt caches by hand Dec 22 07:33:35 haha Dec 22 07:33:36 no Dec 22 07:33:42 well i tried that for fun Dec 22 07:33:50 ;) Dec 22 07:43:25 maemo.org "a server error has occured. Detail: 504" :-/ Dec 22 07:44:44 RST38h, duuude! Dec 22 07:44:56 RST38h, quake 3 engine!) Dec 22 07:45:19 plelase include a verb in your staements Dec 22 07:45:21 RST38h, I just got an idea) Dec 22 07:45:30 thanks Dec 22 07:45:32 :) Dec 22 07:45:50 lets see, not useless controls Dec 22 07:45:53 how about that Dec 22 07:46:04 perfect engine for games on n900 Dec 22 07:46:28 except for those that need a different engine Dec 22 07:46:51 there are also some quake2 engine games built for n800. i think one was a racing game Dec 22 07:46:52 well, accelerometer+volume+touchscreen+keyboard Dec 22 07:47:12 actually i only tried theopenarena port Dec 22 07:48:06 well, id tech 3 is fast, powerful and it was made by John goddamn Carmack :D Dec 22 07:48:20 It has all devtools Dec 22 07:48:37 like level editor and stuff Dec 22 07:49:27 so basically you'll have just to script everything Dec 22 07:49:47 engine will do the rest Dec 22 07:50:31 damn,, it's purely genius idea) Dec 22 07:51:13 and it's gl es2 ready I guess btw Dec 22 07:52:39 who needs Ogre now I wonder)) Dec 22 08:04:42 security heads-up - looks like we have a problem with checking for png_decompress_chunk in -lpng... no Dec 22 08:05:49 autoconf says it is not contained in libpng from libpng12-dev_1.2.37-1maemo1+0m5_armel.deb Dec 22 08:07:34 pupnik: not really a security issue, but that it is missing :P Dec 22 08:09:23 Reflect Theme updated, now with missing info filed and bugfixes. Currently in extras-testing! Please evaluate and vote! Dec 22 08:09:24 Stskeeps: do you know i can manually check that libray? the function is containend in thecorresponding png-dev package from extras Dec 22 08:09:31 pupnik: it's oss Dec 22 08:11:39 i was hoping to get a list of functions from something like ldd Dec 22 08:12:02 png-dev shouldn't be in extras Dec 22 08:12:06 it should be in SDK Dec 22 08:12:43 to verify that it is actually in the file armel /usr/lib/libpng12.so.0.37.0 Dec 22 08:13:16 nm -D Dec 22 08:13:18 maybe if i install the -dbg, i can get labels for those functions Dec 22 08:14:00 based on the -dev package and resulting /include, it shouldl find it Dec 22 08:15:35 i guess the thing to is look at the ./configure script moree closely? Dec 22 09:12:19 hmhm, is there an applet which would show a bit more about battery life? (not a widget, but something which would go in the notification area) Dec 22 09:12:24 (though I'm not sure how it's called) Dec 22 09:12:54 hal-device bme and go from there Dec 22 09:14:14 Stskeeps: I was more asking for stuff integrated in the UI, but I guess it's a “no” :) Dec 22 09:22:18 ping AndrewBlack Dec 22 09:22:46 hmm maemo5 numptyphysics bottomline is somewhere a few dozen pixels below and outside of screen Dec 22 09:22:46 Morning, all Dec 22 09:24:15 maybe almost the size of topbar that's missing in maemo4 NP as there it's fullscreen Dec 22 09:24:26 good morning Dec 22 09:24:46 Morning Andrew Dec 22 09:24:53 and everyone else! Dec 22 09:28:32 does someone use the wiicontrol app on the n900? Dec 22 09:29:44 the app icon disappeared right after a reboot, if i add one manually it crashes, its similiar with numptyphysics Dec 22 09:31:03 hmm, maybe i can start it in the terminalm similiar to the mc icon Dec 22 09:36:18 BluesLee: heh so I was not mentaly insane when thinking I seen NP icon :-D Dec 22 09:39:47 DocScrutinizer51: i dont understand why the wiicontrol icon disappeared Dec 22 09:44:25 DocScrutinizer51: okay, works now Dec 22 09:44:47 BluesLee: aah. On N810 the whole numptyphysics disappeared - even from appmanager. Had to insatl from .deb to get it back Dec 22 09:45:20 DocScrutinizer51: this matrix thing with the app manager is cool Dec 22 09:46:01 matrix thing? the hidden reality? Dec 22 09:46:49 DocScrutinizer51: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxCoMyT8hd8&feature=player_embedded Dec 22 09:47:27 matrix-red-install from file, hehe Dec 22 09:48:19 i wonder what matrix-blue is? Dec 22 09:48:35 blue pill / red pill? Dec 22 09:49:28 invisible pill Dec 22 09:50:34 this phone needs localepurge ported to it :/ Dec 22 09:51:26 BluesLee: quite funny. On N810 it was sufficient to click on the .deb in filemanager to make appmanager install it Dec 22 09:52:17 DocScrutinizer51: maybe there is also a matrix command to activate usb host:-) Dec 22 09:52:29 DocScrutinizer51: just a joke ... Dec 22 09:53:21 DocScrutinizer51: i will miss that feature Dec 22 09:54:24 who developed the default camera app? Dec 22 09:56:22 I wish there was redpill mode for friggin filemanager. Even petrovic which states to be able to "send *arbitrary* files" does not even know about files in my own homedir. Just because it uses the same borked bluepill crap like FM Dec 22 09:57:06 there is something odd about the files shown in the fm, right? Dec 22 09:58:00 morning. puzzled here. how do i get conky promoted from extras-testing to extras? it now has karma of 11. Dec 22 09:59:01 hiding real world (here fs tree) from "poor user" not to scare him with things like english dirnames or even /etc etc Dec 22 09:59:21 dmj7261: nokia. you could check the camera-ui package maintainer Dec 22 09:59:40 dmj7261: why do you ask? Dec 22 10:00:00 just having trouble writing my own alternative Dec 22 10:00:16 dmj7261: there was an open camera app for the n8x0 iirc Dec 22 10:00:23 The camera ui doesn't work properly for one use case of mine. Dec 22 10:00:31 which is? Dec 22 10:00:37 plus there's the mirror app which is probably open Dec 22 10:00:46 It won't focus properly up close unless you trick it. Dec 22 10:00:56 DocScrutinizer51: what is the "Mac Os" Dir about, can i remove it? Dec 22 10:00:57 even in macro? Dec 22 10:01:00 also mbarcode is using the camera and af Dec 22 10:01:10 BluesLee: would you be shocked that it's for computers running Mac OS? Dec 22 10:01:18 (actually Mac OS X, but Nokia can't spell) Dec 22 10:01:25 timeless_mbp: hehe Dec 22 10:01:26 Yeah, in macro it focuses a lot on the object a foot away leaving the subject 2 inches away blurry Dec 22 10:01:29 roughly Mac OS X is a Unix Dec 22 10:01:33 timeless_mbp: okay, i will rmeove it Dec 22 10:01:42 Unixes by default hide files and folders whose first letter is '.' Dec 22 10:01:49 is it possible to add comments on brainstorms? Dec 22 10:01:58 This means that if you plug your n900 into a computer running Unix, you won't see anything Dec 22 10:02:06 timeless: so waht? Dec 22 10:02:10 because all of the default folders (Except DCIM) start with '.' Dec 22 10:02:10 timeless_mbp: damn:-) Dec 22 10:02:20 e.g. '.documents', '.images', '.media', ... Dec 22 10:02:30 now if you plug in a device and it has no content Dec 22 10:02:34 and you use get info Dec 22 10:02:37 and it says "mostly full" Dec 22 10:02:40 what would you do? Dec 22 10:02:43 i'd reformat it Dec 22 10:02:48 that'd get me all the space back Dec 22 10:02:59 now, when you eject it from your mac Dec 22 10:03:00 fnordianslip: you should see a 'Promote package' link on http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/conky/1.6.1-0maemo5-1.1/ Dec 22 10:03:01 mbarcode does af? Dec 22 10:03:03 and go back to using your n900 Dec 22 10:03:04 do I need to do something special when putting a GtkTreeView inside a HildonPannableArea ? I don't get any selection or activation signals from the tree view. Signals work ok when it's inside a plain GtkScrolledWindow. Dec 22 10:03:08 you'll find all your data is gone Dec 22 10:03:10 *oops* Dec 22 10:03:14 I do wonder why those folders are hidden while they _are_ useful Dec 22 10:03:21 but I'm sure there is a very good reason :) Dec 22 10:03:23 timeless_mbp: i have no mac and i will never Dec 22 10:03:26 the Mac OS folder has things which are aliases to the .folders Dec 22 10:03:37 BluesLee: you'll never plug your n900 into a friend's mac? Dec 22 10:03:44 is that because you don't have many friends? Dec 22 10:03:48 are you a Finn in disguise? Dec 22 10:03:54 I'll never plug my n900 into a friend Dec 22 10:03:59 timeless_mbp: i have no friends with a mac, i have no friends:-) Dec 22 10:04:05 timeless_mbp: so if some devine devels decided to have hiddeb dirs there... :-/ Dec 22 10:04:11 ah hah, a Finn in disguise Dec 22 10:04:20 DocScrutinizer51: one story at a time Dec 22 10:04:23 X-Fade: should i expect to see the "Promote Package" link in the bottom right hand corner of the white text area at the top, just like for promotion from devel to testing? if so, then I don't see it Dec 22 10:04:33 BluesLee: roughly speaking, the folder eats so little space Dec 22 10:04:38 that you'd be better served ignoring it Dec 22 10:04:39 timeless_mbp: just a joke, damn i have removed the MAC OS dir Dec 22 10:04:40 fnordianslip: yes. Dec 22 10:04:52 fnordianslip: logged in? Dec 22 10:05:01 X-Fade: as I thought. wonder why i don't see it. yes logge din. Dec 22 10:05:02 timeless_mbp: are you sure that it will not work? Dec 22 10:05:05 DocScrutinizer51: ok, now that BluesLee has admitted a lack of friends Dec 22 10:05:16 BluesLee: I'm typing from my macbook pro here Dec 22 10:05:17 lol Dec 22 10:05:31 I worked on the Icon that you get when you plug your n900 into a Windows, Linux or Macintosh Dec 22 10:05:38 yes I think i'm pretty sure Dec 22 10:05:41 ... Dec 22 10:05:42 timeless_mbp: okay, lets do a test, remove your Mac OS folde ron the n900 and plug it in Dec 22 10:05:56 the icon on the device or the icon on the laptop? Dec 22 10:05:56 wtf Dec 22 10:06:08 BluesLee: better rename ;-P Dec 22 10:06:08 fnordianslip: Cache perhaps? Dec 22 10:06:09 Corsac: the device icon as viewed from the host Dec 22 10:06:28 didn't know you could change that from the device, for a linux host Dec 22 10:06:33 timeless_mbp: the n900 should be smart enough to see that the folder is missing and recover one from default? Dec 22 10:06:34 or maybe only under GNOME? Dec 22 10:06:44 BluesLee: it should go against the user's wishes/ Dec 22 10:06:55 oh right, let's fight the user, that's a great plan! Dec 22 10:06:56 BluesLee: if the folder is useless I guess they wouldn't have included it, though Dec 22 10:07:05 then the user will complain that it's fighting Dec 22 10:07:14 no. if you're stupid enough to delete it, that's mostly your fault Dec 22 10:07:22 damn Dec 22 10:07:28 the fact that we don't include a file explaining the folder's purpose, is us being stupid Dec 22 10:07:35 and you're welcome to complain about that Dec 22 10:07:40 feel free to call nokia care Dec 22 10:07:53 you can explain to them that you deleted the folder from your n900 because you didn't understand why it was there Dec 22 10:08:02 and when you plugged it into a macintosh, you couldn't see anything Dec 22 10:08:09 timeless_mbp: its no problem at all Dec 22 10:08:17 timeless_mbp: I feel fighting user is what it's all about by renaming and hiding dirs Dec 22 10:08:23 you can note that "had there been a file explaining why the folder was there, you wouldn't have done that" Dec 22 10:08:33 DocScrutinizer51: ... one problem at a time Dec 22 10:08:36 BluesLee: are we done here? Dec 22 10:08:41 i owe DocScrutinizer51 an explanation Dec 22 10:08:47 timeless_mbp: i will get me the file structure from scratchbox Dec 22 10:08:57 ? Dec 22 10:09:19 i highly doubt our sdk includes that directory Dec 22 10:09:24 it's part of the mmc data... Dec 22 10:09:33 DocScrutinizer51: so... Dec 22 10:09:36 hmh, funny, when I plug the n900 I see 3 exported devices: the sdcard, the “Nokia N900” and a 200M filesystem Dec 22 10:09:43 with my pictures Dec 22 10:09:46 shoot Dec 22 10:09:50 the 770 which is the ancestor of the n800 which is the ancestor of the n810 which is the ancestor of the n900 Dec 22 10:10:12 Corsac: that last one sounds really odd Dec 22 10:10:12 timeless_mbp: hmm, maybe a user can tar the dir and sent it to me? Dec 22 10:10:23 BluesLee: if you ask nicely, someone could probably do that, yes Dec 22 10:10:27 but not me now Dec 22 10:10:31 DocScrutinizer51: ... Dec 22 10:10:38 it was designed by Gtk hackers Dec 22 10:10:41 timeless_mbp: I agree Dec 22 10:10:44 these are GNU Linux people Dec 22 10:10:51 timeless_mbp: okay, in that case i dont need to call nokia:-) Dec 22 10:10:56 X-Fade: doesn't seem to be a caching thing. I even tried a different browser (safari) and still no way to promote. Dec 22 10:10:58 timeless_mbp: save your time ;-) Dec 22 10:11:29 timeless_mbp: I don't need a justifivation for that crap ;-P Dec 22 10:11:37 timeless_mbp: this is a vfat partition with the DCIM folder and inside the camera pictures Dec 22 10:11:40 and they were asked to come up with a system which allowed for Localized directory names Dec 22 10:11:50 Corsac: so um Dec 22 10:11:53 (and it's the first partition) Dec 22 10:12:07 hmhm Dec 22 10:12:08 wait Dec 22 10:12:29 Fsck yeah! I'm getting my repacement today, they just called from the mail! Dec 22 10:12:35 the “Nokia N900” is exported as /dev/sdb, and the two others are from /dev/sdc Dec 22 10:12:55 so I guess I have two partitions on the sdcard, an ext3 and a vfat one, and the camera put the pictures in the vfat one Dec 22 10:13:55 CoreFusion-: exactly Dec 22 10:15:28 timeless_mbp: the Linux boxes use .VolumeIcons? Dec 22 10:15:36 no, they use autorun.inf Dec 22 10:15:42 which perhaps BluesLee also deleted... Dec 22 10:15:44 .VolumeIcon.icns even Dec 22 10:15:50 nah, that's the OS X one Dec 22 10:15:55 ok Dec 22 10:15:57 the .n900.ico is used Dec 22 10:16:14 hmhm I think I disabled autorun.inf altogether, but I'm not even sure Xfce would support custom icons anyway Dec 22 10:16:38 hmm...is there a way to change the default camera app to focus on say a particular point? Dec 22 10:16:54 wonder if there is a delay between getting enough karma (>= 10) and getting the option to promote? Dec 22 10:16:58 stargate was an awesome movie when it came out Dec 22 10:17:18 Corsac: how is that tb working out for you? Dec 22 10:18:04 fine, though i didn't have much time to play with it Dec 22 10:18:12 * DocScrutinizer51 creates some hardlinks with sane names to a couple of .dirs Dec 22 10:18:27 liar. it is under your bed like mine was before i sold it for half the price. :) Dec 22 10:18:38 haha. ah well. bed time. Dec 22 10:18:43 moron Dec 22 10:19:13 Corsac: did you see the picture of the one in popular mechanics Dec 22 10:19:16 dmj7261, I imagine it focuses to the center of the screen, but the traditional trick to do that is to make sure the focused object is at center first, then move the camera around while keeping focus Dec 22 10:19:28 dmj7261, I suppose with a touch screen an assignable focus point would be nice to have, though :) Dec 22 10:19:45 dmj7261: touch focus? if you file an enhancement bug for that, I'd vote for it Dec 22 10:19:55 it had to have been a render :) it was too well designed. with actual fn markings on the kb Dec 22 10:20:11 Perhaps it would be easier getting Nokia to fix this. Dec 22 10:20:32 Given that the alternative is to rewrite the entire app. Dec 22 10:21:17 What I would like would be to be able to focus on a given point or have a focus slider. Dec 22 10:21:29 I'd settle for a focus slider even. Dec 22 10:21:52 It doesn't focus in the center. Dec 22 10:25:01 heh. now corsac knows why nobody buys french cars Dec 22 10:25:07 good night Dec 22 10:29:06 DocScrutinizer51: sorry.... Dec 22 10:29:08 where was i Dec 22 10:29:39 so, the requirement given to the 770 linux hacker people was: Dec 22 10:29:49 provide a way to show folders with translated names Dec 22 10:29:50 you were about to realize I'm no worthy target for your efforts ;-P Dec 22 10:30:25 the other part of this requirement was to make sure that people didn't hard code English paths into anything Dec 22 10:30:29 the first sin ;-D Dec 22 10:30:45 their "solution" was to give the directories "hidden" names Dec 22 10:30:53 Here's what I get in macro: http://imagebin.org/76461 Dec 22 10:30:57 because if the user were to create a folder named "Documents" Dec 22 10:31:14 it wouldn't conflict with a folder named "Documentos" (italian?) Dec 22 10:31:26 and when you switched to English, it still wouldn't conflict Dec 22 10:31:30 although it would be unfortunate Dec 22 10:31:52 the microsoft approach is to use a file named 'desktop.ini' inside the folder Dec 22 10:32:01 well it confuses hell out of me Dec 22 10:32:04 and give it some attributes telling the system it's special Dec 22 10:32:10 DocScrutinizer51: you think you're that special? Dec 22 10:32:15 it's stupid Dec 22 10:32:18 but they were hackers Dec 22 10:32:18 I know it can focus close because of pics like this: http://imagebin.org/76463 Dec 22 10:32:23 and insisted on reinventing the wheel Dec 22 10:32:23 and I question the rationale behind it anyway Dec 22 10:32:27 instead of copying from microsoft Dec 22 10:32:41 oh, the general requirements: Localizable folder names Dec 22 10:32:49 and Not hard coding English paths Dec 22 10:32:59 and Not conflicting with a user created Folder Dec 22 10:33:01 BAAD Dec 22 10:33:03 are all perfectly reasonable Dec 22 10:33:06 their solution sucks Dec 22 10:33:10 but ... Dec 22 10:33:17 the thing is, it was made for the 770 Dec 22 10:33:25 and then there were all these apps written for the 770 Dec 22 10:33:29 and ported to the n800/n810 Dec 22 10:33:37 and then more apps written for the n800/n810 Dec 22 10:33:47 roughly speaking, changing this would have broken all of those apps Dec 22 10:33:48 :) Dec 22 10:33:52 so now all is FUBAR... yeah I see Dec 22 10:34:06 write once wrong, suffer many Dec 22 10:34:11 simply I don't like the whole approach Dec 22 10:34:20 oh, i'm not defending it Dec 22 10:34:25 i have one more question, where i can alias rm='rm -i' for root? Dec 22 10:34:30 it's another case of NIH and We Can't Steal From Microsoft Dec 22 10:34:43 it refuses to use the entry from /etc/profile Dec 22 10:34:52 BluesLee: which "it"? Dec 22 10:34:54 sudo gainroot? Dec 22 10:34:57 ssh root@127.1 ? Dec 22 10:34:58 yeah Dec 22 10:35:04 which? Dec 22 10:35:05 BluesLee: in .profile? Dec 22 10:35:11 ahh Dec 22 10:35:20 typically sudo iirc will not load profile stuff Dec 22 10:35:26 because it's not supposed to be the real shell Dec 22 10:35:35 * Arkenoi thinks that hardcoding english paths is far lesser evil than all that "virtual" path tricks Dec 22 10:35:57 Arkenoi: again, i'm not defending what they did Dec 22 10:35:58 the whole thing is crappybox anyway Dec 22 10:36:03 what they did was stupid Dec 22 10:36:19 so abandon all hope. then go apt-get install bash Dec 22 10:36:22 DocScrutinizer51: it works, thanx Dec 22 10:37:16 latest easy debian fails to install. Operation temporary disabled due to low memory" all the time :-( Dec 22 10:39:16 BluesLee: your sudo gainroot works with .profile aliases after apt-get install bash? Dec 22 10:40:24 timeless_mbp: did they look at xdg-user-dirs? Dec 22 10:40:41 in 2005? Dec 22 10:40:52 * DocScrutinizer51 wonders what gainroot actually does' from a syscalls POV Dec 22 10:41:00 sudo? :P Dec 22 10:41:23 obviously not Dec 22 10:41:30 DocScrutinizer51: nothing Dec 22 10:41:35 it's roughly speaking a shell Dec 22 10:41:40 which is a binary and has the suid bit Dec 22 10:41:52 timeless_mbp: no but since then it could have been a good idea to switch to a more common solution Dec 22 10:42:03 Corsac: um... Dec 22 10:42:23 first, are you certain we don't play nicely with xdg Dec 22 10:42:28 (especially if the goal is to go from a geek-only device to mass market Dec 22 10:42:32 and second, how would that solve the probably described above Dec 22 10:42:52 * timeless_mbp kicks dolphin Dec 22 10:42:55 I'm not certain of anything but, aiui, xdg-user-dirs is intended to fix the same problems Dec 22 10:43:03 it is Dec 22 10:43:12 (“general” folders, localisation etc.) Dec 22 10:43:16 and it wouldn't shock me if the nokians who first did this worked w/ xdg Dec 22 10:43:29 since that'd be the "proper linux" thing to do Dec 22 10:43:44 -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 225 Dec 4 23:01 /usr/sbin/gainroot Dec 22 10:45:19 ok, not suid, that's sudo Dec 22 10:45:22 is there any better way to gain su rights than sudo gainroot via the shroot app? Dec 22 10:45:34 roughly it's just a binary that will run s Dec 22 10:45:35 sh Dec 22 10:45:42 its kinda annoying due the .profile ignoring etc Dec 22 10:45:53 red: ssh root@localhost Dec 22 10:45:59 that'll give you a proper login shell Dec 22 10:46:04 ty Dec 22 10:46:07 it depends on your goal Dec 22 10:46:32 to mimic getting the rights with the command su on ubuntu etc Dec 22 10:47:02 you could probably replace su Dec 22 10:47:31 nuke crappybox ;-D Dec 22 10:47:53 thing is, busybox is essential or something, so removing it might be a bit tricky Dec 22 10:48:16 yeah. heard that Dec 22 10:48:38 initscripts rely on crappybox bugs Dec 22 10:53:59 pH5: I filed it. Dec 22 10:54:12 https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7224 Dec 22 10:54:14 Bug 7224: camera app focuses on wrong object Dec 22 10:54:34 flux: you might want to look too. Dec 22 10:57:16 Jeez Dec 22 10:57:51 computer blew up? Dec 22 10:57:52 :P Dec 22 10:58:43 12am, monday, damn army of people are waiting for tickets to watch avatar Dec 22 10:59:42 hehe Dec 22 10:59:59 I've booked thursday tickets Dec 22 11:00:22 dmj7261: ty Dec 22 11:00:46 Rst, around? Dec 22 11:01:13 Sts, heya btw) Dec 22 11:04:53 Can an app intercept an incoming phone call before the phone app gets it? Dec 22 11:05:42 oh oh Dec 22 11:15:50 pH5: I think I know what it focuses on. Dec 22 11:16:11 It's not the center of the screen. Dec 22 11:16:43 It's the brightest area. Dec 22 11:26:11 Hello Dec 22 11:26:20 Anyone ever install ubuntu on their N8x0? Dec 22 11:27:46 yes, there's a thread on it on talk.maemo.org Dec 22 11:30:26 I installed a Conboy update today, and now Conboy has disappeared from the application menu. Dec 22 11:30:42 Is that a known problem? Dec 22 11:33:29 maybe I should reinstall it Dec 22 11:39:48 pekuja, happened to me too! Dec 22 11:39:57 no clue how, but after installation the desktop file got removed Dec 22 11:40:00 weird Dec 22 11:40:04 I fixed it by reinstalling conboy Dec 22 11:40:18 I want to ssh to my phone but I don't want to install a ssh server on my phone (because I'll undoubtedly leave it on and get my legs hacked off). Is there some way I could ssh to my desktop from my phone and somehow reverse the connection so I controlled the phone terminal from the desktop? Dec 22 11:40:32 yeah, seems like reinstalling fixed it for me too Dec 22 11:42:18 Oli```, it is possible, yes Dec 22 11:42:22 comment in the testing thing? Dec 22 11:42:36 mgedmin: can you poke me in the right directioin? Dec 22 11:42:47 or the right direction? Your choice ;) Dec 22 11:43:10 I don't have the energy to walk you through it; essentially what you need to do is install openssh-server, change /etc/ssh/sshd.conf to listen only on localhost, and then ssh -R 222:localhost:22 yourdesktop (if I got it right) Dec 22 11:43:52 BBC talking about Fennec and N900... http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8425906.stm Dec 22 11:44:12 and.... " Apple is very restrictive. It doesn't allow other browsers " Dec 22 11:44:54 Everyone is taking a stab at Apple these days - even BBC :P Dec 22 11:45:47 nice Dec 22 11:47:30 I thought I just saw an alternative browser in the app store Dec 22 11:47:33 Termana: it is just utterly stupid to have Cortex A8 and just don't let users use it inside the iPhone Dec 22 11:47:42 but maybe I'm remembering wrong Dec 22 11:48:07 pekuja: I doubt it, Apple doesn't allow apps through that duplicate functionality Dec 22 11:48:47 yeah, I know Dec 22 11:49:10 that's why I remember Dec 22 11:49:32 but then mayebe I'm thinking of something else Dec 22 11:49:36 thresh - I don't get what you mean by the iPhone having a Cortex A8 and it not being used? Dec 22 11:50:11 I was under the impression that the iPhone 3GS' main processor was the Cortex A8 Dec 22 11:50:25 The user has no access to the hardware accelleration of running in a lower level language. Dec 22 11:50:35 I downloaded a tar file to my "My Documents" directory. I'm currently in another directory, what do I type in root when locating the tar in the "My Documents" directory? Dec 22 11:50:53 it's in /home/user/MyDocs/ Dec 22 11:50:56 jennyfast2, cd /home/user/MyDocs Dec 22 11:50:58 prolly Dec 22 11:51:00 Termana: yeah, but you cant access it's DSP Dec 22 11:51:22 * mgedmin takes the spurious apostrophe away from thresh Dec 22 11:51:50 thank you Dec 22 11:51:53 sucks to be ill Dec 22 11:51:59 I want to unload it into /mnt/d1x Dec 22 11:55:27 dmj7261, did you try focusing into larger objects? maybe the focusing area is too big. Dec 22 12:09:07 * DocScrutinizer51 curses "My Documents", osso-fm, and the whole freaking nonsense Dec 22 12:09:53 DocScrutinizer51: I don't like gnome ~/Documents myself Dec 22 12:09:53 :P Dec 22 12:10:16 or especially, ~/Pulpit, which my idiotic ubuntu install made at one point Dec 22 12:10:17 :P Dec 22 12:10:18 I don't like gnome Dec 22 12:11:21 doc me too Dec 22 12:11:50 Stskeeps: you can re{move,name} them and it should be kept like this Dec 22 12:12:28 *sigh* another debian package to beautify and uploading Dec 22 12:12:47 Is there an API for phone connectivity? Dec 22 12:13:33 dbus? Dec 22 12:14:15 I've been looking at the docs for a while. It's either not there or I'm stupid (the latter being more likely). Dec 22 12:14:35 actually not Dec 22 12:15:05 Oh wait, DBusPendingCalls might be what I'm looking for. Dec 22 12:15:16 rashed2020 check the -dev ml Dec 22 12:15:24 qwerty dismantled most dbus commands Dec 22 12:15:40 woglinde: -dev ml? Dec 22 12:15:56 What's the best portable computer? Dec 22 12:15:59 *most* ??? o.O Dec 22 12:16:07 I don't want to spend $1000 Dec 22 12:16:11 Under $500 Dec 22 12:16:17 I was thinking the OQO, or Sony UX Dec 22 12:16:21 Any other recommendations? Dec 22 12:16:22 a few might be the appropriaate wording, no? Dec 22 12:16:37 Something that can run Windows or Ubuntu Dec 22 12:17:18 any netbook with 10 plus hour battery usage Dec 22 12:17:29 How often can one expect Fremantle updates? Dec 22 12:18:05 jennyfast2: I have an Acer Timeline 3810T. It's not as portable as the ones you mentions but it's really good. 7+ battery life and DOESN'T use Atom. Dec 22 12:18:31 oqo and sony ux are not really even near 500$, no? Dec 22 12:20:16 ifreq: N900 ;) Dec 22 12:20:32 rashed2020 maemo-devel mailinglist Dec 22 12:21:02 tigert well n900 is not netbook Dec 22 12:21:10 well yeah Dec 22 12:21:16 but what is a "netbook"? Dec 22 12:21:38 its a lot more like a netbook than a cellphone if you think of the uses Dec 22 12:21:48 netbook has huge screens Dec 22 12:21:53 compares to phones Dec 22 12:23:17 what resolutions do they usually have? Dec 22 12:23:51 I think I can fit roughly 70% on my n900's terminal compared to my laptop's (1280x800) terminal ... Dec 22 12:23:57 that's really fsckng smart. All you can access via osso-fm is actually VFAT. You cna,t create softlinks on VFAT to escape to real fs Dec 22 12:24:05 mikhas, something like that, yeah :) Dec 22 12:24:34 DocScrutinizer51, and bindmounts inside? Dec 22 12:25:00 hmmm Dec 22 12:25:12 DocScrutinizer51: use terminal for real fs access Dec 22 12:25:21 filemanagers are for the weak anyway Dec 22 12:25:31 hello, where can I get the actuel vgba for diablo? Dec 22 12:25:32 tigert: tell taht to petrovic Dec 22 12:25:38 well Dec 22 12:25:50 it isn't anymore in repo Dec 22 12:26:08 petrovich and filemanager and the end user apps Dec 22 12:26:13 those are meant for user's data Dec 22 12:26:22 which is in ~/MyDocs and /home Dec 22 12:26:55 Hi ! Dec 22 12:26:59 tigert: aah yes Dec 22 12:27:19 there is no point showing the unix filesystem to normal people Dec 22 12:27:23 us geeks are a different story Dec 22 12:27:32 alas I can't access /home Dec 22 12:27:32 and well Dec 22 12:27:54 I can't even access /home/user Dec 22 12:28:01 _what do you want to do_? Dec 22 12:28:13 hmmh, cant seem to find the post with the phone dbus info Dec 22 12:28:15 most of the time you want to access your files Dec 22 12:28:18 which are in MyDocs Dec 22 12:28:25 or in the external memory card Dec 22 12:28:28 I know that the Thunar dev ran thunar on scratchbox Dec 22 12:28:32 tigert: maybe *you* do Dec 22 12:28:38 hm next task Dec 22 12:28:44 DocScrutinizer51: thats why I am asking what you want to do? Dec 22 12:28:46 git-buildpackage Dec 22 12:28:51 is someone sponsors him a device I'm sure he can tweak it so it runs fine on fremantle Dec 22 12:28:59 I have beautify so much packages Dec 22 12:29:27 * mgedmin wonders if mentioning bind mounts to DocScrutinizer51 would be a good idea or a bad idea Dec 22 12:29:37 tigert: e.g copy my ~/.xchat2 drawer from N900 to N810 Dec 22 12:29:47 mgedmin doc is oldschool Dec 22 12:29:51 *g* Dec 22 12:29:56 DocScrutinizer51: use scp -r? Dec 22 12:29:57 woglinde: what do you mean by “beautify”? Dec 22 12:29:57 DocScrutinizer51, doesn't backup/restore copy it over? Dec 22 12:29:59 bug in xchat! Dec 22 12:30:08 and backup should work too yeah Dec 22 12:30:09 hm, didn't I build xchat for fremantle? Dec 22 12:30:13 tigert: over BT? Dec 22 12:30:19 oops, I definitely didn't do anything to support backup Dec 22 12:30:22 that's quite new Dec 22 12:30:22 DocScrutinizer51: wlan for example? Dec 22 12:30:31 corsac if someone patches in a configure.in the whole generated autoolssutff including m4-caches Dec 22 12:30:34 this suckz Dec 22 12:30:34 although the version currently in extras-devel is not mine Dec 22 12:30:45 corsac and not usign cdbs is a crime Dec 22 12:30:49 tigert: yeah. or I simply read and type copy Dec 22 12:30:53 cdbs kind-of suck Dec 22 12:31:02 tigert: works always Dec 22 12:31:03 nope Dec 22 12:31:07 DocScrutinizer51: duh sure Dec 22 12:31:13 4 lines of rules-file rockz Dec 22 12:31:19 well, it's useful on simple cases, but it really pisses me off on more complex stuff Dec 22 12:31:29 corsac hm askme Dec 22 12:31:36 woglinde: debhelper7 rocks (but I think we already had this discussion) Dec 22 12:31:40 only downdraw with cdbs is autoreconf Dec 22 12:31:44 DocScrutinizer51, I recommend ssh for this kind of file transfer Dec 22 12:31:50 woglinde: I'm a debian developer, so thanks but I think I can manage it :) Dec 22 12:31:52 corsac no debhelper 7 in lenny and maemo Dec 22 12:32:00 DocScrutinizer51: but it was a clear design decision to hide the unix filesystem. copying your configuration files over to another devie is not exactly a common usecase that would justify against it Dec 22 12:32:07 corsac hehee Dec 22 12:32:20 woglinde: lenny has debhelper 7 Dec 22 12:32:21 mgedmin: thatks. that's what I did as no other way worked Dec 22 12:32:22 DocScrutinizer51: you could tar it up in terminal and then send the tarball over? Dec 22 12:32:25 corsac hm oh Dec 22 12:32:28 that is what I'd do Dec 22 12:32:31 sorry Dec 22 12:32:34 (but not 7.0.50 which has the override stuff) Dec 22 12:32:36 didnt look carefully Dec 22 12:32:48 corsac ah yeah ovveride is needed Dec 22 12:32:57 woglinde: I already asked on maemo-dev why the build arch for maemo was based on etch and not lenny though :/ Dec 22 12:33:01 DocScrutinizer51: besides, the filemanager doesnt show hidden files either Dec 22 12:33:06 tigert: I also could desolder the flash chip and pigyback it to desination device Dec 22 12:33:16 tigert, did you encounter problems with large tarballs? Dec 22 12:33:24 mikhas: havent done large ones Dec 22 12:33:32 tigert: so that's another benefit' huh? Dec 22 12:33:43 DocScrutinizer51: whats your point? Dec 22 12:33:47 corsac I like git-buildpackage really Dec 22 12:33:59 I will try to get in extras Dec 22 12:34:27 lbt: ping Dec 22 12:34:31 I'm gonna try to push scapy in extras :) Dec 22 12:34:31 DocScrutinizer51: I just explained the reasoning why the filesystem access is like that for the N900 user Dec 22 12:34:41 corsac yeah yeah Dec 22 12:34:55 this reasoning is braindead Dec 22 12:34:57 corsac you are mainainer of scapy? Dec 22 12:35:02 woglinde: no Dec 22 12:35:06 (I maintain Xfce) Dec 22 12:35:07 hm okay Dec 22 12:35:08 i still can't promote conky to extras. by 09:00 UTC it had enough votes, but the option to promote is still not presented on this page (and I am logged in); https://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/conky/1.6.1-0maemo5-1.1/ Dec 22 12:35:12 (and evolution ><) Dec 22 12:35:16 oh my god Dec 22 12:35:17 DocScrutinizer51, *boggle* Dec 22 12:35:36 but I use scapy quite often and the sid package installed fine with dpkg -i Dec 22 12:35:47 DocScrutinizer51: I also gave you a few alternatives that should get the job done OK Dec 22 12:35:49 do you seriously think you can require every mom and pop who buys a cellphone to understand /usr/lib and friends? Dec 22 12:35:59 DocScrutinizer51: if you just want to argue, please find someone else :) Dec 22 12:36:01 corsac yeah sid package even works on lenny Dec 22 12:36:03 mgedmin: the freerunner premise! Dec 22 12:36:03 :P Dec 22 12:36:12 hm reminds me Dec 22 12:36:20 that I could upload python-wifi to maemo Dec 22 12:36:21 mgedmin, or understand "folders" and "files" at all Dec 22 12:36:29 thats a good idea Dec 22 12:36:29 Jaffa: pong Dec 22 12:36:36 there's a difference between "possible" and "shoved right into your face" Dec 22 12:36:43 or "allowed" and "required" Dec 22 12:36:51 tigert: you gave no statement I even would bother to argue against Dec 22 12:37:06 I'm allowed to see the full unix filesystem on my n900 (xterm, sshfs), but I'm not required to Dec 22 12:37:24 and you shouldnt be required to, that's the whole point, no? Dec 22 12:37:57 should vs shouldnt, I mean Dec 22 12:37:58 yeah, it was clearly decided that most users dont care about the unix fs Dec 22 12:38:28 or rather, the users that care about unix fs use the xterm anyway Dec 22 12:38:30 dotfiles in /home, well, yeah, maybe one could expose /home/user, but still those can be accessed with term Dec 22 12:38:47 its like I have Nautilus in Ubuntu Dec 22 12:38:53 that shows me /etc if I want Dec 22 12:38:56 Nautilus? Dec 22 12:39:07 is that like windows explorer? Dec 22 12:39:10 (the filemanager) Dec 22 12:39:13 yeah Dec 22 12:39:17 Dec 22 12:39:34 it but if I really need to poke there its much faster wiht a terminal anyway Dec 22 12:39:50 nautilus is really nice for my files though Dec 22 12:40:10 I wonder how many times I have used it to view stuff outside my /home Dec 22 12:40:26 not many Dec 22 12:40:29 * Gadgetoid_mbp always uses terminal to view files outside of N900 sanctioned folders Dec 22 12:40:44 maybe because there is no other way :) Dec 22 12:40:57 * Khertan hate this Dialog hiding extensions ! Dec 22 12:40:57 Midnight Commander? Dec 22 12:41:36 hey Khertan Dec 22 12:43:10 tigert: that's clearly a "that's no bug thats a feature" kind of justification. What makes you think a statement like "it's been clerly decided that user does XY" is any correct and not a evil attitude Dec 22 12:43:21 tigert, /media/usbflashdisk is outside your /home ;) Dec 22 12:43:22 DocScrutinizer51: user testing? Dec 22 12:44:36 hmm, so we had to define which reference user group you talk about Dec 22 12:45:05 DocScrutinizer51: also just looking at the responses here on the channel, your argument got about 4 or 5 counter-arguments Dec 22 12:45:20 so it is telling me the decision could have been worse :) Dec 22 12:45:25 IMO - showing users - normal ones - / is _insanity_ Dec 22 12:45:30 Or config files. Dec 22 12:45:42 Those that care can install a FM of some sort. Dec 22 12:45:57 125035 I downloaded a tar file to my "My Documents" directory. I'm currently in another directory, what do I type in root when locating the tar in the "My Documents" directory? Dec 22 12:46:23 DocScrutinizer51: thats why there is the terminal, so if you are interested / need to hack stuff, you can do it easily Dec 22 12:46:23 ah - sorry - misread scrollback Dec 22 12:46:25 "tar", "type", "root"? and you think that's a normal user? Dec 22 12:46:46 DocScrutinizer51: well, the .documents is a braindead relic that should die, yes Dec 22 12:46:55 ++ Dec 22 12:47:04 Sheesh, I'm a power user and had to lookup where the hidden docs directory was Dec 22 12:47:32 Blatant dot abuse! Dec 22 12:48:00 so now seems the time to leave that debate alone Dec 22 12:48:05 for me Dec 22 12:48:12 yeah, you lost =p Dec 22 12:49:17 ln -s /home/usr/sanedocumentsfolder /home/usr/MyDocs/.documents ? Dec 22 12:49:33 (SCNR) Dec 22 12:49:43 * Gadgetoid_mbp often gets his ln commands reversed Dec 22 12:49:43 nah, tigert gimself and Gadgetoid_mbp made my point Dec 22 12:50:14 DocScrutinizer51: that has nothing to do wiht exposing the root fs though Dec 22 12:50:23 Gadgetoid_mbp, what helped me is I started thinking about "cp source dest", combined with "ln -s is like cp, only it doesn't really copy, it makes a reference" Dec 22 12:50:41 its just a relic that is causing gray hair also when you mount the stuff via usb storage Dec 22 12:50:50 mgedmin: ah, so I'm not alone! Dec 22 12:50:59 how the heck do you know to put music on your $MEMORYCARD/.sounds ? Dec 22 12:50:59 me too. (ln) Dec 22 12:51:29 yeah Dec 22 12:51:40 there's a bunch of metadata for MacOS X/Win32 Dec 22 12:51:45 yeah Dec 22 12:51:46 a good way to remember the order is to remember the second arg is optional Dec 22 12:51:52 and it'll link to the current folder Dec 22 12:51:53 which is more gross hacks to fix the first Dec 22 12:51:56 I wouldn't be suprised if you get to see "Audio files" or something if you plug it into Mac OS X Dec 22 12:52:04 Gadgetoid_mbp: you can have only one destination but several links to that dest. so dest is first arg Dec 22 12:52:04 for linux you have to be a power user :)( Dec 22 12:52:09 it does that so that those folder names can be translated I think Dec 22 12:52:15 that was nicely ambiguous, but I meant :( Dec 22 12:52:28 but the way it is done causes a lot of issues like this Dec 22 12:52:41 I hope it gets fixed in harmattan :P Dec 22 12:52:52 DocScrutinizer51, Corsac - I seeee! (but will forget) Dec 22 12:54:43 * Gadgetoid_mbp connects his n900 to his mbp Dec 22 12:55:04 hello maemo Dec 22 12:55:07 again :) Dec 22 12:55:57 hey wazd Dec 22 12:56:49 Morngin Dec 22 12:56:52 * Gadgetoid_mbp sees Movies and Music folders that he's sure don't actually exist Dec 22 12:57:34 woohoo, conboy, rm /usr/share/applications/hildon/conboy.desktop in a .postrm, how nice Dec 22 12:57:46 thankfully it's been commented out in the latest deb Dec 22 12:57:54 yurk Dec 22 12:58:18 I can't say I like the games it's playing with sed on /usr/share/applications/uri-action-defaults.list in its postinst/postrm Dec 22 12:58:30 Wouldn't it have made sense to have had /home/usr/Music or /home/usr/DAS MUSIC as real folders, with, if it really matters, a from /home/usr/.duuuuh/.music back to the translated folder name? Dec 22 12:58:53 Or, just Apps that can find content by metadata no matter where dumdum user puts it Dec 22 12:59:19 s/a from/a link from Dec 22 12:59:53 actually, Gadgetoid_mbp, that's exactly what the Media Player and Photos apps do on the n900 Dec 22 13:00:01 it doesn't matter where you put your music, movies or images Dec 22 13:01:19 sometimes it doesn't work as well as you'd like ("save web page as", and all embedded images next to the html end up being shown among your photos) Dec 22 13:01:37 Ode to the pointlessness of .documents. Thou start with a dot, but hidden you're not. You contain all my files. But I can't find you. My downloads are lost. To my command line. WOE IS ME! Dec 22 13:03:49 lol @ Ode to the pointlessness of .documents. Dec 22 13:04:21 Gadgetoid_mbp: that I can agree with :) Dec 22 13:05:14 Are we missing an MC port to the N900? Dec 22 13:05:50 no, MC is in extras-devel at least Dec 22 13:07:16 btw from roundabout 20 years of customer support I can tell users that don't care about the filesysem also don't care if there's written 'My Documents' or '~/documents' or even 'foobar' in any filerequester dialog. Those users tend to have *papers* where they write down each single keystroke to get a task done Dec 22 13:07:42 there are those people, but a lot of people between that and us Dec 22 13:07:49 I don't understand those people. Dec 22 13:07:59 But you have to work with them. Dec 22 13:07:59 those people dont buy N900s either I guess Dec 22 13:08:49 since i ran the firmware update my preproduction phone has developed all kinds of small issues, but it might be related to not also flashing the eMMC Dec 22 13:12:55 all you *_mbp guys probably like the "go to" function of your finder, enabling you to have a look to arbitrary locations like /etc Dec 22 13:13:22 DocScrutinizer51: Agreed Dec 22 13:13:32 jeremiah_: can you please remove maemo recorder from extras-testing/extras-devel, as it's been superseded by Recorder? i see enough people still installing the older version Dec 22 13:13:38 DocScrutinizer51: But not so much as having the filepath permanently visible, ala Windoze Dec 22 13:14:06 KMFDM, what kinds of small issues? Dec 22 13:14:34 well this morning's latest is that my email doesn't update according to the set interval Dec 22 13:14:59 sometimes when I've set offline mode for conversations the phone randomly sets itself online while im asleep Dec 22 13:15:21 last night when I went to the theatre my phone responded to the anti-gsm signal by jumping from offline mode to online Dec 22 13:15:45 whoa Dec 22 13:16:13 KMFDM: sounds like a bug for bugzilla.maemo.org Dec 22 13:16:16 please report Dec 22 13:16:19 mine decided last night that it wasn't feeling hungry and refused to charge Dec 22 13:16:27 I found it dead this morning, still plugged into the charger Dec 22 13:16:32 but yeah Dec 22 13:16:37 mgedmin, mine does that too if you plug it in when turning it off Dec 22 13:16:40 flashing emmc us a good idea if weird shit happens Dec 22 13:16:41 Since when have theatres used anything to stop GSM signals? Dec 22 13:16:45 plugging it in while it is starting up or shutting down Dec 22 13:16:51 s/us/is Dec 22 13:16:51 well, to be more precise, it woke me up with the alarm, and then asked me if I wanted to turn the device on, and started charging Dec 22 13:16:58 s/us/is/ even Dec 22 13:17:02 Termana, here they send out a signal that makes everyone's phone ring Dec 22 13:17:06 if it is still on Dec 22 13:17:25 I didn't even know you could do that :P Dec 22 13:17:26 KMFDM, cool Dec 22 13:17:33 how on Earth does that work? Dec 22 13:17:38 after that they block it Dec 22 13:18:00 Who is the first to call bullshit on that? :) Dec 22 13:18:16 DocScrutinizer51: but as the default file manager in the N900 sucks and isn't nearly high density enough, I'd sooner replace it with one that has root fs access and more features besides Dec 22 13:18:16 yayyyyyyyyy N900 in transit to my home :D Dec 22 13:18:21 bs, never heard that it would be possible Dec 22 13:18:21 I call it for the sake of shit Dec 22 13:18:48 could technically be possible if they manage to transfer te phones to a picocell or something :P Dec 22 13:18:49 Frequency jammer, sure. Dec 22 13:18:51 i want my dealextreme phone-ringer device if it is possible Dec 22 13:19:08 (not sure.) Dec 22 13:19:08 lol cosmo :P Dec 22 13:19:49 andre__: Ask the developer to vote it down. Then it will be removed from the queue at least. Dec 22 13:20:24 andre__: Ah, he asked for it to be removed. I'll kill it then. Dec 22 13:20:30 Gadgetoid: I'm less concerned about osso-fm (I use mc for that). But petrovich prooves all other apps are doing the same shit probably by using a standard lib. That has potential to become a *real* PITA Dec 22 13:21:39 * DocScrutinizer51 waits for mc being 'hildonized' wrt that bluepill mode Dec 22 13:21:58 X-Fade: problem also is that "maemo-recorder" is shown before "Recorder" in the App Manager, I think. so people install the older one Dec 22 13:22:01 DocScrutinizer51: Ahh, I see what you mean Dec 22 13:22:05 * mgedmin waits for /bin/ls to be hildonized Dec 22 13:22:40 yeah. prolly going to get a iPhone then Dec 22 13:23:05 bingo! Dec 22 13:23:07 Me likey iPhone, it works... Dec 22 13:23:34 I get my iPhone back today, girlfriend has landed herself a 3Gs upgrade Dec 22 13:34:31 hello Dec 22 13:34:35 maemo exmaples Dec 22 13:34:37 i can't run Dec 22 13:34:39 any one help? Dec 22 13:35:51 lol, VLC player for win now have santa hat on the cone :) Dec 22 13:38:58 yep Dec 22 13:39:08 imagine that we had people complaining about it Dec 22 13:39:11 and still have Dec 22 13:39:46 they somehow thought that santa hat is a religious symbol. and we are endorsing our religious views on them. Dec 22 13:39:48 ShadowJK: I wonder if a bindmount loop (to ../..) will send some processes on a long journey without return Dec 22 13:43:06 morning Dec 22 13:43:38 hej lardman Dec 22 13:43:43 hi Dec 22 13:43:59 hi pH5, oldtang Dec 22 13:44:12 lardman: re gl .. maybe if we try to map in the omap frambuffers like was done in 2.6.18 we might be able to get it working and then rendering to our own buffers Dec 22 13:44:13 nice to meet u :-) Dec 22 13:44:22 * lardman just reading about Fennec-final soon to be released for the N900 Dec 22 13:44:44 Stskeeps: has there been any further comms? Dec 22 13:44:49 is it optified?-) Dec 22 13:45:02 lardman: we're talking a bit forth and back Dec 22 13:45:51 docscrutinizer51, do bind-mounts appear under the bind-mount? 8,m guessing not.. Dec 22 13:46:32 flux, there's mount --bind and mount --rbind Dec 22 13:46:50 flux: I'm somewh5 reluctant to test right away. But I guess they do Dec 22 13:46:54 the answer to your question is different depending on which one you used Dec 22 13:47:19 mgedmin: ooh. interesting point Dec 22 13:49:08 * DocScrutinizer51 wants mandb package for maemo5 Dec 22 13:51:05 is there anyone know how to run maemo 5 examples? Dec 22 13:51:15 I run many times but failed Dec 22 13:54:10 run or build? Dec 22 13:55:45 X-Fade, jeremiah_: know anything about freeciv-data having been removed from extras-testing with a broken dep list? Dec 22 13:55:47 https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7220 Dec 22 13:55:48 Bug 7220: Application Manager completely breaks when extras-testing is enabled Dec 22 13:56:12 andre__: Yes, I did this morning on request of the uploader. Dec 22 13:56:37 X-Fade, Hmm. Now I wonder if it's a bug in App Manager that should be fixed, or whether to close that report :-/ Dec 22 13:57:07 andre__: I'll comment and close. Dec 22 13:57:14 thanks Dec 22 13:57:25 andre__: It was basically repository index corruption because of broken package. Dec 22 13:57:36 ah, okay Dec 22 13:59:16 Hi guys any one enlighten me on why the webrowser always times out anytime i add export http_proxy=myproxy:portnumber to /etc/profile . ? every other internet aware application works fine except the browser Dec 22 14:00:00 you are using a proxy? Dec 22 14:00:06 could it be a bug or design because I dont get such behaviour from firefox ( or any gecko based browser) on my linux desktop Dec 22 14:00:08 have you checked the browsers settings Dec 22 14:00:38 red: yeah I am. I have checked the settings in pref.js .. and it uses the systemwide proxy in my wireless profile Dec 22 14:01:11 odd Dec 22 14:01:14 Hmm Dec 22 14:02:45 check http://xio.com/maemo/browser-proxy.txt ? Dec 22 14:03:44 wonder when modern browsers include syntax hilighting from a dropdown menu Dec 22 14:03:56 red: I had to add export http_proxy to /etc/profile because it is the only way to get internet awared applications like gpodder mauku and OMweather to work with my proxy settings in school. since they dont respect the systemwide proxy which is in my wireless profile Dec 22 14:05:50 hi lardman Dec 22 14:05:55 it is build Dec 22 14:06:03 Shadikka: checking it out Dec 22 14:07:11 oldtang: what is the build error then? Dec 22 14:07:14 Shadikka: do you think it would work with microB? Seems the code if for tear? Dec 22 14:07:46 one minute, i will copy it, did you build and run successfully? Dec 22 14:07:56 no, just wondering Dec 22 14:08:02 pastebin the output if it's long Dec 22 14:08:07 bigbrovar: No idea, just googled it. *shrug* Dec 22 14:08:30 Yeah, seems to work Dec 22 14:08:38 search for "default_browser:" in the file Dec 22 14:08:44 brb Dec 22 14:10:51 hmhm, is it possible to use a us altgr-intl keyboard mapping? Dec 22 14:10:53 ha, it seems now no errors, very strange Dec 22 14:11:08 maybe just because i reboot my vmware maemo sdk env? Dec 22 14:11:17 :) Dec 22 14:11:33 thanks Dec 22 14:11:56 my magic powers ;) Dec 22 14:11:56 did you setup a maemo 5 develop env? Dec 22 14:12:04 I believe Dec 22 14:12:10 yes, though it's on a Linux box Dec 22 14:12:55 i use a vmplayer linux image Dec 22 14:14:15 I suspect I'm being stupid here but I can't work out how to paste into the terminal Dec 22 14:14:36 I can run maemo 5 examples, it is very fantastic Dec 22 14:14:57 cool Dec 22 14:15:02 alsuren: ctrl-v ? Dec 22 14:15:16 im wondering if its possible to install maemo5 on a netbook that has touchscreen Dec 22 14:15:30 Mer might be possible Dec 22 14:15:33 I'd expect it to be possible, but tricky Dec 22 14:15:33 alsuren: at X Terminal? Tap the "X terminal" menu from the top of the screen Dec 22 14:15:35 would be a nice playground for testing Dec 22 14:17:59 middle mouse button maybe help Dec 22 14:18:11 help Dec 22 14:18:12 Laiska: aaaah! it only appears when you have something selected/in clipboard Dec 22 14:18:16 Laiska: thanks Dec 22 14:18:18 ? Dec 22 14:18:29 alsuren: np Dec 22 14:19:28 Shadikka: seems the script u posted makes tear the default browser? Dec 22 14:20:30 am just trying to find out why microb times out when I export my proxy to /etc/profile if its a bug or design cus I dont have same problem on any linux I have used Dec 22 14:21:36 if there is a way i can ask the good the developers of microb or can i use the developers mailing list? Dec 22 14:23:12 Does anybody have a fremantle package ready to test on the new autobuilder hardware? :) Dec 22 14:23:40 There is always a queue and now I need to test it, there is nothing of course :D Dec 22 14:24:03 lol Dec 22 14:24:09 * mgedmin can build dict Dec 22 14:24:36 mgedmin, --rbind doesn't still look recursive for the same mount Dec 22 14:24:40 mgedmin, (just tried it) Dec 22 14:24:55 flux, do you really want infinite-depth directory trees? Dec 22 14:25:12 mgedmin, of course not, but that was the original proposed problem with using --bind Dec 22 14:25:31 mgmthat's exactly what we don't want ;-P Dec 22 14:25:34 ah, I assumed it was other binds that were the problem Dec 22 14:26:36 eg pymaemo uses bind-mounts to overlay /usr/lib/python2.5 Dec 22 14:27:06 if you wanted to bind-mount / on /home/user/MyDocs/Root and then went to open Root/usr/lib/python2.5 Dec 22 14:27:29 with mount --bind you'd see an empty dir; with --rbind you'd see the python packages Dec 22 14:27:34 exactly what I thought about Dec 22 14:30:10 but he problem is /home/user/MyDocs/root/home/user/MyDocs/root/home/user/MyDocs/root Dec 22 14:30:28 aah Dec 22 14:30:50 "doesn't still look recursive for the same mount" means what, precisely? Dec 22 14:30:58 because I think I interpreted it exactly the opposite way Dec 22 14:31:29 seems it means we don't see tzat problem Dec 22 14:32:03 and my experiments show that after mount --rbind / /tmp/root I can see /tmp/root/, but /tmp/root/tmp/root/ is empty Dec 22 14:32:17 ok Dec 22 14:32:22 fine then Dec 22 14:32:44 oh, fun: I can't umount my /tmp/root/now Dec 22 14:33:32 what is the point of 'onedotzero' package? Dec 22 14:33:42 "interactive remote control" Dec 22 14:33:44 interesting: http://maemoteam.wordpress.com/2009/12/22/a-small-presentpreview-from-the-developer-platform-team/ Dec 22 14:33:45 remote control for what? Dec 22 14:34:34 "Warning: You are using an invalid section: user/tools!" Dec 22 14:34:46 lardman: Now that was a good find Dec 22 14:34:52 where debian/changelog says "Changed item Section from user/Commandline to user/tools for compatablity with Maemo packaging policy" Dec 22 14:35:00 either the policy changed, or the previous maintainer was mistaken Dec 22 14:35:08 611 MB O_o Dec 22 14:35:40 mgedmin: the latter Dec 22 14:35:48 lardman: yeah, except i'm wondering what it contains Dec 22 14:36:02 X-Fade, so, dictd is in the autobuilder queue Dec 22 14:36:06 especially how it works under windows Dec 22 14:36:25 I just saw it Dec 22 14:36:34 might try installing it as I'm running Windows atm Dec 22 14:36:44 mgedmin: Sweet, checking. Dec 22 14:36:48 mgedmin: Annoying those messages ;) Dec 22 14:37:21 lardman: You should be able to use it with Qdesigner ;) Dec 22 14:38:02 fiferboy, Ping Dec 22 14:38:08 AndrewBlack: pong Dec 22 14:38:22 andre__, how difficult is it to automatically add bugzilla components for every package name that's uploaded to extras-devel? Dec 22 14:38:27 and is that a good idea? Dec 22 14:38:44 fiferboy, got a problem with maemo-org and reflect they dont uninstall right leave part of he files that makes them still show up on theme list Dec 22 14:39:17 arg, wget won't pass the license agreement Dec 22 14:39:19 woooohoo. madde Dec 22 14:39:25 AndrewBlack: Does calling "hildon-theme-recache-all" fix it? Dec 22 14:39:27 mgedmin, with the current bugzilla it's complicated. plus I'm not really keen on doing this too automatically. Some package maintainers prefer their own bugtracking systems Dec 22 14:39:35 mgedmin: building Dec 22 14:40:02 * mgedmin wonders what'd have happened if maemo.org had decided to use Launchpad Dec 22 14:40:02 mgedmin, don't want to create bugzilla products that nobody looks at because the package maintainer does not know that it exists. plus frustration for reporters Dec 22 14:40:05 mgedmin: I was thinking of adding a button for maintainers in the package interface. Which then created the product. Dec 22 14:40:16 X-Fade++ Dec 22 14:40:23 goodby scratchbox Dec 22 14:40:32 fiferboy, nope Dec 22 14:40:38 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=437567#post437567 :) Dec 22 14:40:40 But we'll have to wait for the new bugzilla and it needs some discussion too ;) Dec 22 14:40:59 AndrewBlack: Ah, it probably leaves the /usr/share/themes/maemo-org folder Dec 22 14:41:17 andre__, I'm trying to weigh "a ready-made list of issues for $RANDOM_NEW_MAEMO_CONTRIBUTORS to look at when they decide to work on a package" versus "a big depressing pile of untriaged bugs that nobody ever looked at" Dec 22 14:41:18 mgedmin: 2 minute build and it is done. Dec 22 14:41:21 hello everyone Dec 22 14:41:31 X-Fade, it's not done until I can apt-get install it ;) Dec 22 14:41:32 fiferboy, it doesn its clearning out /opt/themes folder but leaves all the files in /usr/share/themes Dec 22 14:41:43 fiferboy, does leave I mean Dec 22 14:41:44 i have an N900 and i'm having issues selecting applications from the applications menu Dec 22 14:41:48 i just filed a bug about it Dec 22 14:42:00 mgedmin: but you really need to fix the section. Dec 22 14:42:00 AndrewBlack: Yeah, because that folder is created in postinst, not by the actual install itself Dec 22 14:42:09 mgedmin, that weigh is also my problem :) Dec 22 14:42:12 i'm finding it to be quite a frustrating issue with regard to usability and one that should be quite fixable in software Dec 22 14:42:15 X-Fade, tell me to what, please, and I'll do it Dec 22 14:42:31 AndrewBlack: Should be easy to fix in the postrm script Dec 22 14:42:49 i would appreciate if anyone having difficulty selecting applications have a quick look and lend support so that nokia/maemo developers take a look at it Dec 22 14:42:50 the extra effort required to search for the category list in the wiki (omg, maemo.org is sooo slooow, don't wanna go there again) is ... Dec 22 14:42:50 https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7230 Dec 22 14:42:51 Bug 7230: Selecting an application is intuitive but too difficult. Going back to the desktop is not intuitive but too easy. Dec 22 14:42:56 I dunno what it is, but it's an additional cost Dec 22 14:43:01 mgedmin: user/utilities ? Dec 22 14:43:07 thanks Dec 22 14:43:14 fiferboy, I guess thats why its happening on reflect as well can you do fix it and package it for me and Joopu sometime? Dec 22 14:43:16 did the "CLI applications an HAM" thread have any conclusions? Dec 22 14:43:30 AndrewBlack: Sure thing Dec 22 14:43:49 anyone have any idea what 'onedotzero' is used for? Dec 22 14:43:52 fiferboy, thanks Dec 22 14:44:03 mgedmin: Well you need to think about the audience. CLI is not really end user friendly. Dec 22 14:44:19 Milo-: controolin art installations Dec 22 14:44:20 so, no consensus? Dec 22 14:44:33 art-installations? Dec 22 14:44:36 such as? Dec 22 14:44:49 Milo-, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nid6Zjhks2s Dec 22 14:45:23 I see Dec 22 14:46:04 mgedmin, I opened a brainstorm for that, but the result was not that good IMO :( Dec 22 14:46:11 X-Fade, assuming there are alternative ways of publishing packages (dput, scp), I'd appreciate if https://garage.maemo.org/extras-assistant/ linked to those... oh, here it is, "autobuilder instructions" Dec 22 14:46:16 thanks for reading my mind/using a time machine Dec 22 14:46:28 mgedmin, perhaps we need a dictator decision Dec 22 14:46:41 hmhm I wonder what are the point of madde vs. scratchbox2 Dec 22 14:46:50 sanity? Dec 22 14:46:51 mgedmin: It won't be too long before we can finally switch to proper hardware. We're configuring it now. Dec 22 14:47:02 , Corsac Dec 22 14:47:08 X-Fade, didn't you mention on IRC some time ago that it's possible to upload packages via scp, without using gpg? Dec 22 14:47:09 Stskeeps: sb2 is insane? :) Dec 22 14:47:09 mgedmin: Should solve the whole dput doesn't work issue. Dec 22 14:47:19 oh I realised something, N900 doesn't have infrared ? Dec 22 14:47:21 I have a "dput is too damn hard" issue Dec 22 14:47:32 Milo-, it has infrared Dec 22 14:47:37 Milo-: Does Dec 22 14:47:39 Corsac: sb2 is saner than sb1. Dec 22 14:47:42 mgedmin: sure, check 'Uploading to Extras' on the wiki. Dec 22 14:47:45 there is no way of turning it on from menus then? Dec 22 14:48:01 X-Fade, can you add *that* link to the extras assistant's sidebar too? Dec 22 14:48:12 Stskeeps: and free :/ Dec 22 14:48:26 heh, my browser remembers that I've visited http://wiki.maemo.org/Uploading_to_Extras#scp in the past Dec 22 14:50:46 "/var/www/extras-devel/incoming-builder/fremantle/" is hard to remember if you don't type it often Dec 22 14:51:02 AndrewBlack: reflect already has a prerm script that cleans up on removal Dec 22 14:51:06 I wish I could specify default remote $PWD in my .ssh/config ... Dec 22 14:51:18 AndrewBlack: I'll add one for maemo-org and send you the packages Dec 22 14:51:26 mgedmin: 2 line shell script? :) Dec 22 14:51:29 "scp *.tar.gz *.diff.gz *.dsc *.changes garage:fremantle/" would rule Dec 22 14:51:44 fiferboy, ok I must of still had the old reflect that i packaged it didnt have the right one Dec 22 14:51:49 why wouldnt you just make an alias? Dec 22 14:52:18 Milo-: what means "turn it on"? Dec 22 14:52:22 or some sort of a script, true. Dec 22 14:53:00 Milo-: search repos for irreco for example Dec 22 14:53:08 DocScrutinizer51 found it already Dec 22 14:53:25 milo-, n900 only has an IR transmitter, for controlling for example tv Dec 22 14:53:29 all the old nokia phones I have had had a menu entry that just said 'turn on IR' Dec 22 14:53:49 ah, no, I don't think you can do stuff like beam around VCARDs from a phone to N900 Dec 22 14:53:52 I kind of should have used a comma between those two hads Dec 22 14:53:54 flux: somebody told me different. not sure Dec 22 14:54:01 docscrutinizer51, well, waiting for proof :P Dec 22 14:54:02 ;-) Dec 22 14:54:28 you probably _could_ do that by installing obexftpd, making it listen on the irda port ... hm Dec 22 14:54:34 not trivial Dec 22 14:54:51 mgedmin: there is no irda port. Dec 22 14:55:10 ah, okay, I know even less about IR hardware than I thought Dec 22 14:55:14 mgedmin: obexpush I think Dec 22 14:55:42 so, transmitter but no receiver? Dec 22 14:56:10 though, 600 euro tv-remote sounds appealing Dec 22 14:56:19 which means there's no chance to get an app that would record IR signals from remotes and then play them back :-( Dec 22 14:56:25 I couldn't figure out the UI of irreco Dec 22 14:56:36 X-Fade: is there no IR receiver? or simply no standard IrDA TX/RX chip? Dec 22 14:56:38 mgedmin: No receiving, but it is just a lirc device. Dec 22 14:56:56 mgedmin: So any remote on lirc's site will work. Dec 22 14:57:16 And you can record codes on a $2 lirc device yourself ;) Dec 22 14:57:27 the remote I had was not on lirc's site Dec 22 14:57:58 DocScrutinizer51: It is CIR, not irda. Dec 22 14:58:44 X-Fade: you told that before. My question was basically "is there any IR-RX?" Dec 22 14:59:04 you already answered that I guess Dec 22 14:59:11 DocScrutinizer51: If you are great at bga soldering, then yes ;) Dec 22 14:59:22 lol Dec 22 14:59:35 ok. I might give it a try Dec 22 14:59:41 heh Dec 22 14:59:48 check camera sensitivity to ir Dec 22 14:59:53 ha ha "while a computer might be able to surf the internet solely via CIR" -- wikipedia on CIR Dec 22 15:00:02 pupnik, cool idea, but I doubt its frame rate is sufficient Dec 22 15:00:07 pupnik: too slow Dec 22 15:00:11 k Dec 22 15:00:16 I remember balancing my Siemens S60 in front of my Thinkpad T23 so I could tether my phone's GPRS connection ... Dec 22 15:00:22 maybe it could be faster if it is possible to limit the scanning region? Dec 22 15:00:24 AndrewBlack: I just made your theme remove reflect when uninstalling ;) Dec 22 15:00:32 but then you would need to aim it very accurately Dec 22 15:00:33 I decided that my next phone & laptop will have to have builtin bluetooth Dec 22 15:00:57 mgedmin, I really doubt you can buy anything (new) that doesn't have.. Dec 22 15:01:12 mgedmin, however, bluetooth dongles are really small these days. try blueusb21 from a-link.. Dec 22 15:01:14 sure you can Dec 22 15:01:21 (for usb of course) Dec 22 15:01:22 dongles are annoying, and so are cables Dec 22 15:01:51 mgedmin, http://www.alave.cz/_imgs/a-link-bluetooth-2-1-edr-usb-adapter-blueusb21:50086:200:200 Dec 22 15:01:52 flux: actually it might be fast enough if you don't care bout 38KHz carrier Dec 22 15:02:07 mgedmin, you don't even need to take it off when you put the laptop to a bag Dec 22 15:02:25 depends on the bag, the dongle and the laptop's firmware Dec 22 15:02:37 IIRC I had a thinkpad that refused to suspend if you had a BT dongle plugged in Dec 22 15:02:40 nyquist sample frequency to catch a 3ms pulse would be 666 hz ;) Dec 22 15:02:41 or maybe it was a PCMCIA modem Dec 22 15:03:06 I definitely remember kernel bugs that made things break horribly on suspend with a BT dongle plugged in Dec 22 15:03:15 my Asus EeePC 900 has no builtin BT, so I had to use a USB dongle Dec 22 15:03:32 flux: then there also is a ambient light sensor which has one chan sensitive to IR Dec 22 15:03:43 no idea how fat that one is Dec 22 15:03:45 docscrutinizer51, it likely is Dec 22 15:03:54 was there a final verdict on whether host-mode will ever be doable on rx51? Dec 22 15:04:19 docscrutinizer51, and it might even be possible to poll it at some reasonable frequency.. unless it is connected to some slow i2c bus, which it likely is :( Dec 22 15:04:20 s/fat/fast Dec 22 15:04:39 yep Dec 22 15:04:46 it is Dec 22 15:06:14 http://armdevices.net/2009/12/06/optima-op5-e-maemo-linux-mid-video-review/ Dec 22 15:06:19 flux: depending on them cams' chips you might get a sort of "barcode" which you might decode to get raw IR input Dec 22 15:06:20 pupnik, I haven't heard anyone proclaim a verdict yet Dec 22 15:06:29 pupnik, my understanding is that it's not. unless someone builds special hardware that looks like a host to n900 and simulates host to other devices :) Dec 22 15:06:37 nobody geeky enough has a n900 yet Dec 22 15:07:20 docscrutinizer51, wouldn't you need some special optics to stretch the IR signal into a longer region? Dec 22 15:07:54 docscrutinizer51, or were you thinking that the scanning wouldn't proceed? Dec 22 15:08:01 re Dec 22 15:08:08 flux: not if you place the TX led directly on the cam lens Dec 22 15:08:38 docscrutinizer51, well, I just checked that it indeed can see IR Dec 22 15:09:03 to some extent all chipcams can Dec 22 15:09:49 http://www.extron.com/company/article.aspx?id=ts062002 a nicely written overview of IR Dec 22 15:09:50 there's simply no absolute filter for IR ;-P Dec 22 15:10:22 it would be badass if we could crank camera up to 600 fps at low res Dec 22 15:10:53 yay 600 fps @ 3x2 Dec 22 15:12:01 flux: probably a 3.5mm headset plug with a photodiode soldered to mic and gn ring is the simplest solustion to the read-IR problem Dec 22 15:12:49 i vote for getting real life instead Dec 22 15:12:56 honestly Dec 22 15:13:04 small, cheap, and you can sample up to 48KHz at least Dec 22 15:13:32 docscrutinizer51, sure, but it would need extra hardware :) Dec 22 15:13:49 yes. 2 components Dec 22 15:14:00 a jack and a photodiode Dec 22 15:15:08 you probably can't tweak the scan area of a cam as suggested before Dec 22 15:15:46 these are basically long shift registers which you need to read out completely anyway Dec 22 15:15:47 It depends. Dec 22 15:15:50 Some cameras you can Dec 22 15:15:55 that's not really true for many. Dec 22 15:16:01 ooh Dec 22 15:16:02 You can set regions of interest. Dec 22 15:16:20 One camera even went up to - in single mode - 1MHz reads. Dec 22 15:16:29 Though that was an unusual one Dec 22 15:16:32 wtf!! Dec 22 15:16:53 generally you won't get close to that - but it can go to >>60fps on many cameras Dec 22 15:16:55 highspeed cam for 100k$ ? Dec 22 15:17:02 where the bbox was 1*1 pixel Dec 22 15:17:04 no Dec 22 15:17:38 k. always learning :) Dec 22 15:17:48 http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=4&ved=0CBYQFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fgwest.gats-inc.com%2Fsofie%2Fsun_sensor%2Fstar_1000_5.pdf&ei=A-MwS-_4KYKJ4QbElciqCA&usg=AFQjCNEIYoSXS3yqbth66DSdtngIV9tbfA&sig2=nFLCIESm4B01_gWDIzhFHQ - I think. Dec 22 15:18:02 But that was IIRC 400 euro, when they were selling the sensor alone Dec 22 15:19:33 hmm' the BGA soldering solution becomes more interesting ;-D Dec 22 15:20:26 next up: USB over headphone plug Dec 22 15:20:27 :P Dec 22 15:21:00 tbh I *hate* IR recos as you always nned to point at the device you want to control Dec 22 15:21:04 wirless usb Dec 22 15:21:24 bga soldering? Dec 22 15:21:36 wusb has problems. Dec 22 15:21:44 mikä se onwhy do i see update available on gpodder, but it says conflicting packages? Dec 22 15:21:44 Stskeeps: we had that on FR already. Well almost Dec 22 15:21:51 oops Dec 22 15:21:56 red: Tappio. ;) Dec 22 15:21:58 - mikä se on Dec 22 15:22:07 DocScrutinizer51: interference on headphone plug? :P Dec 22 15:22:30 damn up aed up arrow :p Dec 22 15:22:35 wtf Dec 22 15:22:43 irssi going apeshit Dec 22 15:22:49 Stskeeps: that too. shot your ears Dec 22 15:23:46 i am seeing a lot of ubuntu. is the New Way to pull ubuntu debs for maemo or is debian still preferred? Dec 22 15:24:25 SpeedEvil: search backscroll for BGA Dec 22 15:24:46 Ah Dec 22 15:25:07 * SpeedEvil ponders rolling shutter hackery. Dec 22 15:25:24 there are some consumer cameras offering high speed video now Dec 22 15:26:03 SpeedEvil: that,s basically my "barcode alike" suggestion' no? Dec 22 15:26:08 (set a rolling shutter to a 1 line window, expose the image, and you get height in pixels samples at whatever the line rate is. Dec 22 15:26:11 iddn't see that Dec 22 15:27:01 flux: depending on them cams' chips you might get a sort of "barcode" which you might decode to get raw IR input Dec 22 15:27:14 what Dec 22 15:27:19 s/flux/speedevil/ Dec 22 15:27:20 DocScrutinizer51 meant: speedevil: depending on them cams' chips you might get a sort of "barcode" which you might decode to get raw IR input Dec 22 15:27:30 camera + ir? Dec 22 15:28:56 okay, not fun: I made two dentist's appointments and entered them into my n900's calendar; now they're gone Dec 22 15:29:21 thats a good thing isnt it? "n900 keeping you from the torture chamber" Dec 22 15:29:44 dentists are gone? 'so long and thanks for all the teeth' Dec 22 15:29:54 maybe I entered them into my old N900? Dec 22 15:30:17 mgedmin: braggard Dec 22 15:30:21 lol mgedmin i have that at the moment, i need colored cases Dec 22 15:30:36 I use different themes ;) Dec 22 15:30:44 or just a really good sync between the pair Dec 22 15:30:54 themes dont help when the screen is off Dec 22 15:31:01 actually, working sync between the n900 and *anything else pleeeeease* Dec 22 15:31:19 i need to set my windows doofer back up Dec 22 15:31:44 to take my photos into little dated albums Dec 22 15:46:07 EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEK Dec 22 15:46:22 I just realized that the 640 MB figure banded about was for the MADDE sharball Dec 22 15:46:32 wtf? Dec 22 15:46:43 well, okay, scratchbox eats gigabytes of my disk space Dec 22 15:47:10 but I'm not happy installing random proprietaryware from *-linux-686.sh files Dec 22 15:47:20 even if it has unnamed GPL components inside Dec 22 15:48:34 just stick with sbox then? =p Dec 22 15:48:55 mgedmin: I kind-of agree Dec 22 15:49:03 though I didn't yet had a chance to look at it Dec 22 15:49:26 well, it seems I have to learn yet another set of commands to control MADDE Dec 22 15:51:22 hm, is it ok to remove trackerd from the startup scripts on the device? Dec 22 15:52:04 mikhas, I wouldn't Dec 22 15:53:24 mgedmin: adduser madde? Dec 22 15:59:46 hi everybody! today, out of the sudden my n810 (diablo) lost this circular animation next to "updating" in the popup notification (e.g. in the app-manager). It simply disappeared. Can somebody point me to the part of the system which is responsible for that animation please? Dec 22 16:00:45 mrweasel, sounds like a bit of your theme, i wonder if changing it to something else and back again would do anything. but i dunno for certain Dec 22 16:03:29 mgedmin: so use the .deb files directly Dec 22 16:03:47 mgedmin: not like that makes a significant difference though Dec 22 16:04:41 might be caused by reposerver sluggishness? Dec 22 16:05:14 lcuk: i'm using a standard theme (glasser). the problem occured after I installed canola2 today, which caused some kind of dependency hell... any idea which package provides the popup notifications? Dec 22 16:05:22 hello Dec 22 16:05:34 nope Dec 22 16:05:54 data:text/html,Empty Dec 22 16:05:56 oops Dec 22 16:06:22 hehe Dec 22 16:06:44 what do i use if need fremantle packages to be rebuilt in a clean chroot regenerated each time when i want to build a package? and i need to make a 'repo' of resulting packages. Dec 22 16:07:09 i only need armel, do not care for x86 target. Dec 22 16:07:26 thresh: look into sbdmock Dec 22 16:07:38 thresh: maybe try pbuilder/cowbuilder? (not sure how they run inside sb) Dec 22 16:07:38 or "cp" Dec 22 16:08:09 http://wiki.maemo.org/Building_packages_with_sbdmock Dec 22 16:08:11 X-Fade: thanks, looks like it is what i need. Dec 22 16:08:12 yep Dec 22 16:08:44 That will give you a clean env every time. That is what we use on the autobuilder too. Dec 22 16:08:51 is there some way to tell trackerd to ignore some dirs? Dec 22 16:09:11 X-Fade: yeah, that is exactly what i needed Dec 22 16:09:11 slonopotamus: There is supposed to be a config somewhere. Dec 22 16:09:31 one reason why people don't vote for applications that are in testing, is that the webserver sucks. Dec 22 16:09:52 so very true Dec 22 16:10:21 well, trackerd is a bit stupid if it assumes MyDocs changed only because I rebooted Dec 22 16:10:25 slonopotamus, share with us, if you find out Dec 22 16:10:26 hms Dec 22 16:10:33 it does that everytime now it seems Dec 22 16:10:44 probably runs through all files, checks mtimes Dec 22 16:10:50 noticably slowing down the device Dec 22 16:10:51 looks like i cant feed sdbmock my own hand-crafter apt.conf. solvable with --addrepo though. Dec 22 16:10:52 still that could take a while if you've got a lot of files Dec 22 16:11:00 well, a global dirty flag would solve that Dec 22 16:11:00 x-fade, for now i'm just killing it. i setup a chroot and mess with lots of files with it, that causes trackerd to eat all cpu Dec 22 16:11:01 hand-crafted. Dec 22 16:11:22 s/with/it/ Dec 22 16:11:24 slonopotamus meant: x-fade, for now i'm just killing it. i setup a chroot and mess it lots of files with it, that causes trackerd to eat all cpu Dec 22 16:11:25 argh Dec 22 16:11:32 *in it Dec 22 16:12:02 ~/.config/tracker/tracker.cfg Dec 22 16:12:16 and ignore MyDocs? =p Dec 22 16:12:17 hey, s// replaced only first occurrence Dec 22 16:12:23 that's normal Dec 22 16:12:26 add a /g Dec 22 16:12:30 slonopotamus: Inserting my camera microsd card with 1000 12Megapixel images didn't do a lot of good for me either ;) Dec 22 16:12:41 s/a//g Dec 22 16:12:42 Corsac meant: dd /g Dec 22 16:12:48 interesting; it only watches .sounds, .documents, .videos, .images, .camera Dec 22 16:13:43 mgemin, my chroot is under /mnt Dec 22 16:13:46 that doesn't match my experience :/ Dec 22 16:22:13 mgedmin: same here Dec 22 16:23:21 mgedmin: probably it has a codeline "plus / recursive" ? Dec 22 16:25:40 recursive doesn't really make sense :) Dec 22 16:25:44 chating on the bus by irssi is the greatest thing Dec 22 16:25:46 but yeah it might have hardcoded paths Dec 22 16:40:08 say, i want to pack some multimedia libraries. I probably want them to be inside of /usr/lib on the device, right? Dec 22 16:40:27 i only put those libraries users to /opt/ ? Dec 22 16:43:19 the reason i ask those libraries can be quite big, say, 5Mb or something similar. Dec 22 16:43:39 there are many opengl es tutorials on http://www.imgtec.com/powervr/insider/sdk/KhronosOpenGLES2xSGX.asp but how can I access them? Dec 22 16:43:44 is it or will it be possible to run other OSes on the N900? (no chroot) Dec 22 16:44:14 windows NT runs Dec 22 16:44:23 not native i presume Dec 22 16:44:23 ward-: yes Dec 22 16:44:24 walks? Dec 22 16:44:30 ward-: if they are linux based. Dec 22 16:44:30 ;) Dec 22 16:44:31 ward-: windows nt supports arm Dec 22 16:44:46 timeless, neat i didnt know that :D Dec 22 16:44:54 * pupnik_ has run 5 OSes on N900 ;) Dec 22 16:45:00 Stskeeps, so i could just install debian on it for instance? Dec 22 16:45:00 ah, maemo-optify seems to be what i'm looking for :) Dec 22 16:45:24 Stskeeps, i used to have this PDA that could boot linux from windoze mobile with haret Dec 22 16:45:32 and i really really really liked debian on it Dec 22 16:45:35 ward-: right, but you might want to contribute to Mer instead Dec 22 16:45:42 since i could choose all packages, even window managers, etc Dec 22 16:45:53 It's been almost a month since I told Nokia about my busted N900... and still, no real response. I'm starting to think that it's going to take a year for me to get this resolved... AGAIN. Dec 22 16:45:58 Stskeeps, i'm new to maemo, i dunno what Mer is Dec 22 16:46:04 zerojay: yours is a loaner is it not? Dec 22 16:46:07 ward-: Dec 22 16:46:08 ~mer Dec 22 16:46:09 rumour has it, mer is http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer, or on #mer Dec 22 16:46:10 Stskeeps: Yep. Dec 22 16:46:32 lol now im confised Dec 22 16:46:38 zerojay: not sure there's much else to do than send it back Dec 22 16:46:43 mer and maemo are both OSes if i understand correct Dec 22 16:46:46 yes Dec 22 16:46:53 so mer is the new maemo or something? Dec 22 16:47:01 mer is community maemo, based on ubuntu Dec 22 16:47:06 Stskeeps: I think that if I end up doing that, I might just not come back. Dec 22 16:47:30 Stskeeps, so will it have tons of apps in the repository like debian? :D Dec 22 16:47:33 zerojay: well, if i break my loaner i'd send it back as the contract doesn't give me any warranty etc Dec 22 16:47:36 ward-: yeah Dec 22 16:47:43 Stskeeps, sounds fantastic Dec 22 16:47:53 finally something that maybe could replace my broken PDA from 2003 Dec 22 16:48:04 Stskeeps: Well, that's why I e-mailed them to find out what to do and... still, nothing. Dec 22 16:48:07 i was looking at android first but that seems to offer NO advantages in running linux Dec 22 16:48:10 other then a shell Dec 22 16:48:17 zerojay, emailed who? Dec 22 16:48:53 Stskeeps, is mer or debian allready installable/usable at the moment? Dec 22 16:49:00 with X11 etc Dec 22 16:49:07 ward-: on n900 port will be published in a couple of days. Go test our VMDKs Dec 22 16:49:19 zerojay: if it's pre-summit, prod tero or danielwilms when they're here Dec 22 16:49:26 lcuk: Quim, Daniel and Tero. Dec 22 16:49:37 Stskeeps, ah nice man, i'm waiting with buying one anyway Dec 22 16:49:43 hoping theywill go down in price a bit Dec 22 16:49:53 after the holaays and all Dec 22 16:50:19 zerojay: but i sincerely doubt you'd get a replacement (my own personal belief) Dec 22 16:50:26 any n900 owners here? Dec 22 16:50:32 yes Dec 22 16:50:34 ward-: maemo is pretty much usable as-is Dec 22 16:50:38 hows the thickness? Dec 22 16:50:47 annoying or fairly ok? Dec 22 16:50:56 ward-: If you are developing apps, you will not hit any of the 'non-free' parts typically. Dec 22 16:51:00 fine Dec 22 16:51:13 zerojay: worth poking them though and see what your possibilities are Dec 22 16:51:15 SpeedEvil, yeah but i really would love all the progs that are in debian (or ubuntu) repos Dec 22 16:51:20 And the basic system is actually usable Dec 22 16:51:35 Stskeeps: I'm not interested in playing the year-long poking game with Quim for a second time. Dec 22 16:51:37 ward-: mer is likely to be less functional than maemo for some time Dec 22 16:51:39 ward-, slight incompatibilities make it a bit less practical without serious considerations Dec 22 16:51:44 ward-: in the normal aspects Dec 22 16:51:45 SpeedEvil, ah yeah i know its allready working fine as a phone if thats what you mewant Dec 22 16:51:47 with maemo Dec 22 16:51:47 zerojay: i agree, but this is loaner devices and not DDP Dec 22 16:51:48 those oses' apps are geared for desktop Dec 22 16:51:52 and look a bit different Dec 22 16:51:58 Stskeeps: If they don't see the point in responding to me, I don't see the point in dealing with Maemo at all anymore. Dec 22 16:52:02 i know :-) Dec 22 16:52:07 ward-: I mean as a phone, and installing random applications from the repo - forex Dec 22 16:52:07 used to run debian on my PDA so Dec 22 16:52:13 also desktopprogs Dec 22 16:52:35 SpeedEvil, aha, so the maemo repos are not very limited? Dec 22 16:52:47 because in thids video review they spoke of "25 applications at the moment" Dec 22 16:53:14 but i really want everything since i love to mess with linux and all kinds of things Dec 22 16:53:29 zerojay: e-mail is a horrible medium for stuff like that - no idea if the mail ever made it to them or if it got lost in piles, etc Dec 22 16:53:44 i used to have the debian ARM repositories, for comparison's sake Dec 22 16:53:49 zerojay, *rolleyes* because 1 mail gets dropped, just ask again. theres 100000001 other things the guys are doing Dec 22 16:53:50 i would lvoe something similar Dec 22 16:54:24 lcuk: No, this is because of *FAR* more than one mail getting dropped. This is a constant issue. Dec 22 16:54:28 zerojay, give them a call, there's probably some number you can call Dec 22 16:54:35 then you can actually explain your issue to someone Dec 22 16:54:50 lcuk: Believe me, I'm fully sensitive to the fact that they're busy with stuff... and they always are. Dec 22 16:54:50 i used to work at a callcenter doing support for a ISP Dec 22 16:54:53 ward-: yes, they are limited at the moment. Dec 22 16:54:55 and mails DO get lost frequently Dec 22 16:55:11 ward-: They got the e-mail. Dec 22 16:55:25 ward-: at the moment, you also may be able to fairly easily install a debian or whatever chroot inside the device, while still running maemo. Dec 22 16:56:04 It feels like the only way I ever get a response to anything from them is if I poke them repeatedly for months at a time... but yet they have all the time in the world to debate useless shit on TMO. Dec 22 16:56:11 SpeedEvil, i would love natively, since with chroot its X11 over SSH or VNC right? Dec 22 16:56:41 ward-: no - you could have it displaying on the local display Dec 22 16:56:49 aha Dec 22 16:56:52 and you generally don't care about x11 over tcp Dec 22 16:56:58 rather than local socket Dec 22 16:57:03 SpeedEvil, so then its exactly like a native OS right? in terms of speed Dec 22 16:57:27 video will be poorer - but then you will need to work out how to get the socket into the chroot too Dec 22 16:57:34 then it should be as fast Dec 22 16:58:00 But that isn't an issue for anything but games IMO Dec 22 16:58:00 zerojay: either way, loan agreement should help a bit in deciding what can be done :/ Dec 22 16:58:07 * Stskeeps should check when his expires Dec 22 16:58:25 SpeedEvil, but regular X11 apps should run at the same speed? Dec 22 16:58:31 lets say wireshark Dec 22 16:58:41 as an example Dec 22 16:58:46 * RST38h moos evilly Dec 22 16:59:27 lol can you LOAN a device from nokia if you develop? :s Dec 22 16:59:56 ward-: yes Dec 22 16:59:58 Stskeeps: Well, I'm not so much worried about whether or not they can send me a replacement. I fully understand not being able to send out $600 devices when you're in the middle of full sales swing. I'm not asking for anything more than a quick "yeah, send it in" or something. Dec 22 17:00:24 ward-: tcpdump I just run on the console Dec 22 17:00:46 s/console/xterm/ Dec 22 17:00:46 SpeedEvil meant: ward-: tcpdump I just run on the xterm Dec 22 17:00:51 SpeedEvil, yeah it was jsut an example Dec 22 17:01:00 anything using x11 Dec 22 17:01:21 lcuk: ok, solved it. as always a "gtk-update-icon-cache -f /usr/share/icons/hicolor" did the trick. i've had this problem about a year ago and solved it the same way, NOW i remember. I think I'll write it down somewhere.. thanks anyways :) Dec 22 17:01:34 zerojay: well, even if i think that is obvious (people have returned devices before), i'd catch danielwilms or tekojo when they're on IRC. even though i'm not sure they'll be on tomorrow 23th Dec 22 17:01:35 Forex ran firefox from my laptop displaying on the n900 - with no noticable slowdown - over wlan. Dec 22 17:01:42 SpeedEvil, the bot makes me thing theres no actual console without x11? Dec 22 17:02:04 ? Dec 22 17:02:16 SpeedEvil, " SpeedEvil meant: ward-: tcpdump I just run on the xterm" Dec 22 17:02:19 ward-: ah - no - not usually Dec 22 17:02:33 ward-: there is no console on framebuffer or similar functionality Dec 22 17:02:38 by default Dec 22 17:02:45 by default :D Dec 22 17:02:49 sounds good to me lol Dec 22 17:03:45 In short. Mer - in the short term - is not going to give you a device as functional as maemo. Dec 22 17:04:21 but it will enable me to run all the desktop apps in the default debian/ubuntu repos? Dec 22 17:04:23 In the medium term - 3-6 mo? It may work quite adequately, but before then it may be interesting for some user/hackers. Dec 22 17:04:28 well anything compiled for the arch Dec 22 17:04:50 zerojay: but based on loan agreement it just states that by X date it has to be delivered back .. so it would be natural to just send it back before that Dec 22 17:05:03 about speed, debian arm is for armv4 so it won't be as speedy as stuff built for armv7t Dec 22 17:05:42 SpeedEvil, it would be to mess, just liek i messed with my PDA running linux Dec 22 17:05:47 (a pocket loox 720 btw) Dec 22 17:05:53 mer seems to support the looxes Dec 22 17:05:54 lol Dec 22 17:05:56 ward-: funny fact, mer ran on a loox 720 Dec 22 17:05:57 ah Dec 22 17:05:58 :P Dec 22 17:06:06 doesn't that easily anymore but.. Dec 22 17:06:06 :P Dec 22 17:06:09 Stskeeps, lol yeah i noticed Dec 22 17:06:20 Stskeeps, the loox 720 is still fantastic Dec 22 17:06:34 a 2003 device that can measure with 2009 hardware :d Dec 22 17:06:39 but my screen broke :( Dec 22 17:06:58 the fantastic vga screen :( Dec 22 17:07:31 ward: That is Tentacled One hinting that you have to get new hardware Dec 22 17:07:54 RST38h, no it broke because i hit it with somethgin accidentally Dec 22 17:08:04 i didnt even know how it happened Dec 22 17:08:05 Ahahahahaha Dec 22 17:08:12 i was cleaning up my desktop Dec 22 17:08:12 ward: That is how Tentacled One works Dec 22 17:08:16 and afterwards it was broke Dec 22 17:08:22 * RST38h was laughing about a different thing though Dec 22 17:08:23 it was lying screen up on the desktop Dec 22 17:08:46 http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/22/new-bada-ui-screens-look-new-agey-yet-familiar/ <=== see anything familiar? Dec 22 17:08:53 * VDVsx yawns Dec 22 17:08:57 heya VDVsx Dec 22 17:09:17 RST38h: is that a nintendo controller Dec 22 17:09:22 RST38h, without seeing the links, canola style ? :P Dec 22 17:09:35 VDVsx: Now, some Maemo5, some iPhone, some HTC Dec 22 17:09:44 In other words, it is a Samsung :) Dec 22 17:09:48 ehhe Dec 22 17:10:03 Stskeeps, so Mer is good enough to install desktop apps from the repo etc, atm? Dec 22 17:10:05 a new UI toolkit Dec 22 17:10:06 RST38h: have you checked Bada C++ code? Dec 22 17:10:11 ward-: mostly Dec 22 17:10:15 RST38h: it is like a bad copy of Symbian userland Dec 22 17:10:18 * RST38h wonders if Koreans can invent anything on their own. Anything at all Dec 22 17:10:24 moo: Oh. Dec 22 17:10:26 like Dec 22 17:10:27 Stskeeps, do you have some examples maybe? Dec 22 17:10:30 moo: Maybe I should not look there. Dec 22 17:10:36 sorry for the question-rain Dec 22 17:10:36 they didn't even learn....? Dec 22 17:10:41 >_< Dec 22 17:10:53 RST38h: custom exception handling etc. Dec 22 17:11:03 * RST38h does remember one original Korean product: Ssang Young cars Dec 22 17:11:16 Oh, wait...I probably shouldn't have mentioned that... Dec 22 17:11:33 moo: So, what was wrong about using Linux userland and libs? Dec 22 17:11:44 moo: They hired Rasterman, didn't they? Dec 22 17:11:46 moo-_-, its online somewhere ? just for curiosity Dec 22 17:11:57 RST38h: bada has nothing to deal with raster Dec 22 17:12:00 he considers it a joke :P Dec 22 17:12:07 http://www.bada.com/samsung-unveils-new-smartphone-platform/ Dec 22 17:12:11 poke there long enough Dec 22 17:12:14 fiferboy, does it remove mine to or just reflect lol Dec 22 17:12:17 try to navigate through all marketing bullshit Dec 22 17:12:20 there is little to find Dec 22 17:12:24 but it is ugly when you find it Dec 22 17:12:26 Stskeeps, they're using EFL at least Dec 22 17:12:30 dunno if in bada Dec 22 17:12:36 Stskeeps, do you have some examples maybe? of apps you are using from the repo Dec 22 17:12:44 VDVsx: bada is only about userland Dec 22 17:12:51 it "does not care " what OS it runs Dec 22 17:12:52 and maybe apps that dont work good Dec 22 17:13:03 but honestly I believe Samsung doesn't know even itself what OS its phones run Dec 22 17:13:39 VDVsx: in bada? don't think so :P Dec 22 17:14:08 ward-: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSJ82NywcJE Dec 22 17:14:09 Stskeeps, see my second sentence :) Dec 22 17:14:19 ah Dec 22 17:14:55 Stskeeps, thanx Dec 22 17:15:32 http://developer.bada.com/apis/docs/commonpage.do?menu=MC01010300 Dec 22 17:15:33 Stskeeps, reminds me of matchbox Dec 22 17:15:36 coincidance or? Dec 22 17:15:46 ward-: old diablo ui Dec 22 17:16:01 based on matchbox? Dec 22 17:16:05 yeah Dec 22 17:16:10 nice Dec 22 17:16:11 but the new one is closer to n900 ui Dec 22 17:16:31 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dw7KO9z0-kg bad ui problems, but they're more or less fixed now Dec 22 17:16:32 Stskeeps, I heard that other EFL devs went to Korea a couple of weeks ago, but don't know nothing about the product that they are working on :p Dec 22 17:16:48 VDVsx: duke nukem forever Dec 22 17:17:02 Stskeeps, maybe Dec 22 17:18:10 Oh my god they are really copying Symbian... Dec 22 17:18:24 why oh why> Dec 22 17:18:29 at least Bada has a more attractive website than Maemo, sigh Dec 22 17:18:29 insanity Dec 22 17:19:25 Ok, I have seen enough. This monstrosity isn't going anywhere. Dec 22 17:19:55 It is another korean "me too" thing, shoddily constructed from thigns they have seen other people do. Dec 22 17:20:12 lol Dec 22 17:22:52 "Angels, depicted by European painters, were physically unable to fly." Dec 22 17:22:56 Deep. Dec 22 17:23:14 * pupnik_ drops a neutron bomb on automake Dec 22 17:23:29 pupnik: please, add a few more, it is tough Dec 22 17:23:50 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/topics/christmas/6860351/Angels-cant-fly-scientist-says.html (British scientists, who else?) Dec 22 17:24:12 imaginary entities dont actually do anything so yeah Dec 22 17:24:41 they don't? Dec 22 17:26:03 * RST38h suggests that angels have jet engines in their anus, something generations of European painters overlooked Dec 22 17:26:28 RST38h: only the non-persecuted painters. Dec 22 17:26:40 zerojay, what happened to your N900 ? Dec 22 17:26:48 RST38h: The vatican forbidden library has all the pictures that were confiscated for depicting this. Dec 22 17:26:55 Speed: Of course, the ones who had enough guts to show the truth ended up instituionalized Dec 22 17:27:22 RST38h: Goatse is really a recreation of a 14th century depiction of an angel about to take flight. Dec 22 17:27:26 Vatican Hides The Truth! Episode 746. At 11:00 Dec 22 17:27:40 Speed: Or giving birth. Dec 22 17:27:53 or something else nasty Dec 22 17:28:40 someone said windows nt runs on the n900 but i can only find a movie of that where they use bochs Dec 22 17:28:51 it was supposed to run natively Dec 22 17:28:53 BTW, the British scientists (tm) have also considered the problem of fairies Dec 22 17:29:12 windows nt on arm? Dec 22 17:29:24 I do not believe fairies can be explained with jet engines: they are simply not going to be able to store enough propellant Dec 22 17:29:35 till-, yeah he said that Dec 22 17:29:59 that someone was on crack. Dec 22 17:30:24 pupnik_, and timeless_mbp lol Dec 22 17:30:41 timeless_mbp explicitely said windows nt suypports arm Dec 22 17:30:48 anyway doesnt mather :) Dec 22 17:30:55 try win 3.11 Dec 22 17:31:15 windows nt runs on the N900 :D Dec 22 17:31:27 there's videos somewhere Dec 22 17:31:46 yeah, I've seen it on the internet, it must be true =p Dec 22 17:32:12 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_kEdkDWOWc Dec 22 17:32:15 3.11 Dec 22 17:32:21 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUA78P7gGCQ Dec 22 17:32:23 NT Dec 22 17:32:59 first google result, just for the records ;) Dec 22 17:34:53 hmhm, is there a way to arrange/align items on the home desktop? Dec 22 17:34:59 -rw-rw-r-- 1 maemo maemo 167435 Dec 22 18:11 Makefile.orig Dec 22 17:35:00 -rw-rw-r-- 1 maemo maemo 17498 Dec 22 18:33 Makefile Dec 22 17:35:08 (automagically I mean, not by hand) Dec 22 17:35:10 :F Dec 22 17:39:56 VDVsx, ... bochs like i said Dec 22 17:40:03 thats the exact video i saw even Dec 22 17:40:23 bochs is a x86 emulator Dec 22 17:40:30 so not really impressive Dec 22 17:40:31 lol Dec 22 17:40:38 the PSP can even run windows like that Dec 22 17:40:56 ward-, ah, ok, but who cares about that window sh** ? :D Dec 22 17:41:11 you've a full linux box Dec 22 17:41:14 VDVsx, nobody but i was just impressed that it was possible Dec 22 17:41:18 but then found out it was bochs Dec 22 17:41:46 all i care about it debian and its huge repository :p Dec 22 17:41:56 well not all lol Dec 22 17:42:00 and use it as a phone obviously Dec 22 17:42:23 ward-, well, should be possible, but I doubt that the work involved will have some kind of reward Dec 22 17:42:46 yes i found out here that its indeed possible Dec 22 17:43:06 and the reward is using allmost any application you want Dec 22 17:43:14 just like on my old PDA Dec 22 17:43:26 ward-, so a arm port actually exist ? Dec 22 17:43:28 if i never had that thing i wouldnt care or think it was possible Dec 22 17:43:41 a debian ARM port? Dec 22 17:43:42 of course Dec 22 17:43:48 ward-, no Dec 22 17:43:52 win :P Dec 22 17:43:55 nope Dec 22 17:44:02 someone here said it existed Dec 22 17:44:03 but it doesnt Dec 22 17:44:18 http://www.engadget.com/2009/12/22/epic-shows-off-unreal-engine-3-running-on-iphone-ipod-touch/ Dec 22 17:44:25 wtf Dec 22 17:44:25 when will i get ut3 on my maemo phone Dec 22 17:44:31 !!!!!!! Dec 22 17:44:57 thats not the real unreal 3 engine as far as i can see from the screenshot Dec 22 17:44:59 its altered Dec 22 17:45:09 looking very cool nevertheless Dec 22 17:45:10 its real ut3 engine Dec 22 17:45:15 it is... Dec 22 17:46:51 it certainly doesnt look to be the rel ut3 engine lol Dec 22 17:53:55 RST38h, seems that you need to scarify more virgins in order to get your emus promoted to extras :D Dec 22 17:54:02 fmsx is with 9 votes for a long long time :( Dec 22 17:54:14 VDVsx: add one =) Dec 22 17:54:19 Speccy finally made it Dec 22 17:54:33 After talking to XFade though Dec 22 17:54:35 RST38h, already voted Dec 22 17:54:50 VDVsx: Need to find a virgin and make her vote! Dec 22 17:54:58 eheh Dec 22 17:57:17 ther UE3 looks like Q3 :) Dec 22 17:58:05 Oh, finally, a scratchboxless build environment Dec 22 17:58:08 hi Dec 22 17:59:01 anyone have the n900? Dec 22 17:59:32 Naruto_sec: yes, some people there Dec 22 18:00:40 cool Dec 22 18:01:03 who has it coz i have some questions Dec 22 18:01:15 just ask Dec 22 18:08:53 is there a way to get rss feeds of the forums? Dec 22 18:09:13 AndrewBlack: The one I sent you is fixed :) Dec 22 18:10:31 RST38h: what do you think bout Q3 engine idea? :) Dec 22 18:12:28 i see that the talk.m.o software is capable of doing RSS, but I don't see how to subscribe to it (perhaps it is not enabled) Dec 22 18:14:38 http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=379808&postcount=2 Dec 22 18:31:57 Anyone tried MADDE yet? Dec 22 18:32:05 whats that Dec 22 18:32:06 Jaffa: only installed it, havent fired it up yet Dec 22 18:32:27 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=437805 madde Dec 22 18:32:31 Grumble Dec 22 18:32:38 Jaffa: downloading as i'm a bit curious Dec 22 18:32:54 anybody involved with navit ? I cannot compile the svn version, nor on the sdk, nor on a rhel5 box Dec 22 18:33:08 things fail rather soon, at the autogen step... Dec 22 18:34:55 i kinda like the extraction going 9..8..7..6.. Dec 22 18:34:55 :P Dec 22 18:35:05 Stskeeps: sounds intriguing, I doubt I'll have time for a play tonight Dec 22 18:35:20 maybe tomorrow at work, if it runs on Windows ;) Dec 22 18:35:31 that is the interesting part for me Dec 22 18:39:06 Jaffa: Yes, it should work on windows. That was tested ;) Dec 22 18:40:07 Now you can basically use your own IDE and use madde as compiler. Dec 22 18:40:39 X-Fade: exciting. Dec 22 18:40:52 X-Fade: it's primarily for qt stuff though, right? Dec 22 18:41:16 I guess it is one of the steps for the universal qt everywhere yes ;) Dec 22 18:41:46 * Stskeeps thinks this is rather cleverly done Dec 22 18:43:14 looks good from the docs Dec 22 18:43:23 Eclipse plugin should be trivial Dec 22 18:43:30 Say, i want to upload a package to extras Dec 22 18:43:39 'fuse_me_harder () Dec 22 18:43:40 ' Dec 22 18:43:41 excellent Dec 22 18:43:43 Is there some sort of ACL so no one except me can upload newer versions? Dec 22 18:43:46 Remote debugging and x11vnc tidy ups must be on roadmap Dec 22 18:44:05 x-fade, do you work on madde? Dec 22 18:44:17 simula: No. Can't do everything ;) Dec 22 18:44:26 heh Dec 22 18:44:42 thresh: That is still on my todo. Dec 22 18:44:44 oh awesome Dec 22 18:44:53 "The MADDE tool chain was announced at the Maemo summit, which is what we’re going to support in Creator once the Maemo guys release it." Dec 22 18:45:04 X-Fade: so now everyone can upload some broken stuff? hmmmmmmm Dec 22 18:45:29 i was so wishing something like that would happen, that made my day :) Dec 22 18:45:33 thresh: Everyone with an account yes. But we can trace who did what of course. Dec 22 18:45:42 sure Dec 22 18:46:03 still leaves the room for "incompatible" changes though Dec 22 18:46:16 thresh: And uploading other people's packages is very bad form, it is frowned upon. Dec 22 18:46:20 the ones we keep having with debian-multimedia... Dec 22 18:47:00 thanks for making it clear. Dec 22 18:47:17 Who is the Creator? Dec 22 18:47:42 thresh: But that won't be for long as it something that is reasonably easy to implement. Dec 22 18:48:38 RST38h: YHWH, but I suspect simula's quote refers to the application Qt Creator Dec 22 18:48:44 ah Dec 22 18:48:47 :p Dec 22 18:48:56 true :) Dec 22 18:49:25 * jebba requests mirrors of repo Dec 22 18:51:47 "Microsoft loses patent appeal; Word and Office to be barred from sale starting January 11" Dec 22 18:52:18 awesome Dec 22 18:52:22 X-Fade: nice. Dec 22 18:52:50 RST38h: got a link? Dec 22 18:55:42 uh Dec 22 18:55:50 extras-devel got removed of my sources Dec 22 18:57:02 * mgedmin wants to send a calendar event via Bluetooth Dec 22 18:57:07 hmm Dec 22 18:57:14 or at least export to an ical file Dec 22 18:57:18 has anyone tried lsyncd on maemo? Dec 22 18:57:21 http://code.google.com/p/lsyncd/ Dec 22 18:57:34 this would be pretty sweet Dec 22 18:57:48 for your-files-on-the-go Dec 22 18:57:52 hm Dec 22 18:58:09 looks like an open-source version of dropbox/ubuntu one Dec 22 18:58:11 uses rsync Dec 22 18:58:13 yeah Dec 22 18:58:17 exactly Dec 22 18:58:31 dropbox rocks in use Dec 22 18:58:44 using it on maemo with sshfs via my shell Dec 22 18:59:01 whoa Dec 22 18:59:16 * mgedmin has ubuntu one, but so far hasn't figured out a use case for it Dec 22 18:59:45 mostly because I just don't *trust* sync Dec 22 18:59:58 gimme a VCS, then I know I understand how conflict resolution works Dec 22 19:00:35 also, I would like to register a complaint Dec 22 19:00:46 the hildon date chooser widget is inconvenient Dec 22 19:00:50 @ luke-jr_ - http://news.google.com/news/search?aq=f&um=1&cf=all&ned=us&hl=en&q=Microsoft+loses+patent+appeal Dec 22 19:00:51 it gives me no clue about weekdays Dec 22 19:01:23 RST38h: I googled for what you mentioined, look what I've found - http://www.joystiq.com/2009/12/21/microsoft-files-patent-for-user-health-generated-avatars/ Dec 22 19:01:28 * sivang_ huh's Dec 22 19:01:44 sivang: hahahwat? Dec 22 19:01:56 zash: ? Dec 22 19:02:23 sivang: the link Dec 22 19:02:42 * GAN900 's proxy is down. :( Dec 22 19:03:50 and yes, I had entered my appointments into the wrong N900 Dec 22 19:03:58 sivang: ah, another plone user here? :) Dec 22 19:04:07 moo-_-: hehe, it seems so! Dec 22 19:04:11 sivang: good that I do not care about avatars, sick or healthy,,, Dec 22 19:04:13 moo-_-: nice top see you, what are you doing here ? Dec 22 19:04:31 RST38h: right, the potential personal information solicitry here is unparalleded :-D Dec 22 19:04:32 enjoying my N900 :P Dec 22 19:04:36 sivang: we develop mobile apps Dec 22 19:04:47 moo-_-: remind me of which company you are with ? Dec 22 19:04:50 sivang: some people like exposing stuff about themselves though Dec 22 19:04:58 sivang: twinapex Dec 22 19:05:11 try boot on N900 ;P Dec 22 19:05:13 +plone Dec 22 19:05:23 I'm getting a n900 tonight, what's the first thing i should do with it? :) Dec 22 19:05:35 Paul3, dance with joy Dec 22 19:05:38 :) Dec 22 19:05:44 Paul3: watch introduction movie! Dec 22 19:05:50 (shipped with the device) Dec 22 19:05:55 Paul3: take it out of the box! Dec 22 19:05:55 then, I dunno, are you a geek? I install openssh-server first thing on mine Dec 22 19:06:08 then set up ssh pubkey logins as user 'user' rather than root Dec 22 19:06:17 and set up sudo so I can 'sudo anything' and not just 'sudo gainroot' Dec 22 19:06:28 Paul3: install Plone4.0a3 on it! :-p Dec 22 19:06:36 and then set up avahi so that I can 'ssh my-nokia' instead of typing in IP addresses Dec 22 19:06:44 moo-_-: I will, if I ever get one. I am too short on funds at the moment to buy one. Dec 22 19:06:50 last time i added a line in sudoers, it completly destroyed the application manager Dec 22 19:06:59 which explains why reflashing is such a hassle for me: http://mg.pov.lt/770/reflash-n900.html Dec 22 19:07:03 sivang: trust my... prices will come down, like always! Dec 22 19:07:04 Yeah, ssh definitely. Using putty on my symbian phone with t9 is kind of painful Dec 22 19:07:04 hmm on a avahi-related note, why do hostnames with 1 or less . in them fail to work on n900? Dec 22 19:07:34 ali1234, there's an open bug for that Dec 22 19:08:14 either dnsmasq or the the dhcp client scripts are lacking, so the n900 ends up without a default domain for name resolution Dec 22 19:08:18 Paul3: I set up my email account, facebook account and google reader shortcut when got the device Dec 22 19:08:30 Paul3: nothing involving shell :< Dec 22 19:08:38 bug 995 Dec 22 19:08:39 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=995 DNS resolution ignores local domain Dec 22 19:09:03 Paul3, play with all the builtin apps, see what they're capable of Dec 22 19:09:12 then enable the extras repository and play with 3rd party apps Dec 22 19:09:17 that doesn't make much sense to me, but meh Dec 22 19:09:25 moo-_-: you guys are a finish company ? Dec 22 19:09:55 Then after the battery is dead i'll try to set up the dev environment on my pc :) Dec 22 19:10:05 Paul3: install n900fly and measure how high you can throw it :) Dec 22 19:10:12 not on the first day! Dec 22 19:10:20 Hehe Dec 22 19:10:38 sivang: mostly finnish yes, we have some sales offices abroad Dec 22 19:10:49 I look forward to having linux in my pocket Dec 22 19:11:34 anyone know the status of fbreader getting into extras? Dec 22 19:11:43 Sounds like i'll have plenty to play with :) thanks Dec 22 19:12:19 moo-_-: nice. so you get to visit the Nokia offices if you want :) Dec 22 19:12:48 is there some limit on how many devices can use an adhoc connection at once? Dec 22 19:12:52 loppear1: RST38h was working on that. Dec 22 19:12:53 is it just the server + 1 client? Dec 22 19:13:38 jebba: Hmm your build time improved quite a lot ;) Dec 22 19:14:10 andre__, wish I could thank you twice. ;) Dec 22 19:14:11 also, is there somewhere extras-testing meta discussion is going on about what promotes a package to extras, and on improving the web interface to voting/commenting on testing packages? Dec 22 19:14:39 loppear1: Getting into Extras-testing tonight Dec 22 19:14:44 sivang: haha, no. we do not have any kind of relationship with nokia. we are completely independent in that sense (unlike most other Finnish IT companies) Dec 22 19:14:45 GAN: Can you do something for me? Dec 22 19:14:55 is the devel_adhoc found in connections made for sharing N900:s gprs connection to some otehr device btw? Dec 22 19:14:57 sivang: which I think is good because Nokia kicked out all its subcontractors this year Dec 22 19:15:02 RST38h: Library issue sorted? Dec 22 19:15:06 RST38h: excellent, will try it out. Dec 22 19:15:14 X-Fade: Will check in a moment, if GAN helps Dec 22 19:15:15 sivang: and personally I hate Series 60 development >_> Dec 22 19:15:20 GAN900, haha, talk.maemo.org? Dec 22 19:15:23 mgedmin: i don't understand that bug report at all. it seems to be just saying that there's no default search domain Dec 22 19:15:31 ah, mgedmin is here as well Dec 22 19:15:36 that isn't the problem i have, since i don't have any domain to search Dec 22 19:15:37 moo-_-: there's a typo here - http://www.twinapex.com/products/mobile-publishing/apex-vertex/apex-vertex, in Features, "The structure" Dec 22 19:15:38 red: maybe, but I was unable to figure out how Dec 22 19:15:39 mgedmin: Willing to help a little bit? Dec 22 19:15:50 RST38h, what kind of help do you need? Dec 22 19:15:58 mgedmin: meh, think ill google around a bit if i can find any info Dec 22 19:16:12 moo-_-: ah I see, rought financial times for Nokia ? (.IL is a very large market for it) Dec 22 19:16:13 mgedmin: Try updating FBreader from extras-devel, then see if ZLibrary has been updated automatically Dec 22 19:16:48 sivang: well yes. Also, Nokia is engineer driven company and hasn't really clue about how to build services (like Apple + Appstore) Dec 22 19:16:55 moo-_-: I never was interested too much in mobile development before N900 got into the picture, that's why I'm getting into it now. Dec 22 19:17:06 X-Fade: not sure what build you're referring to, but ya, builds are definitely a lot faster in the last few days thanks :) Dec 22 19:17:10 ali1234, well, there are no hostnames like "foo", what usually happens is that the local network has a custom fake TLD like ".lan", and then all the names on the intranet are really "foo.lan", but if you just type "foo" in your browser, it knows to add the .lan part, because the DHCP server told it ".lan" is the default search domain Dec 22 19:17:22 sivang: seen this http://pypi.python.org/pypi/gomobile.mobile/? Dec 22 19:17:25 mgedmin: well, mine doesn't afaik Dec 22 19:17:27 only on Maemo the DHCP client ignores that bit of info and so names without a domain never work Dec 22 19:17:29 moo-_-: True, but they stated that's what they are now becoming. Dec 22 19:17:30 jebba: No, check your burgerspace build now. 4 minutes. Dec 22 19:17:33 X-Fade: ah ya, i see someone resubmitted burgerspace. Perhaps even me ;) Dec 22 19:17:40 rad cool thx 1000000000000x :) Dec 22 19:17:42 or perhaps I misunderstood your problem Dec 22 19:17:48 RST38h, sure Dec 22 19:18:01 sivang: there is several year gap when a company of Nokia size says something and actually gets it done :P Dec 22 19:18:06 mgedmin: If update works for you this time, I am promoting fbreader to -testing Dec 22 19:18:29 I've got fbreader 0.10.7-7 (extras has -9) and libzlibrary 0.10.7-5 (extras has also -7 and -9) Dec 22 19:18:37 X-Fade: what about wxwidgets2.6, can you trigger that again? Dec 22 19:18:41 btw fbreader works for me, even though fbreader and libzlibrary versions mismatch Dec 22 19:18:53 yea, I know Dec 22 19:18:55 so it should Dec 22 19:18:56 Anyone know how I can set up Internet Connection Sharing via N900 Ad Hoc Wlan connection? Dec 22 19:18:57 it's not a ./configure --hildon version, but perhaps will be a start of something useful. Dec 22 19:19:14 BUT, unless zlibrary has the same version as fbreader itself, you ar enot getting the latest changes Dec 22 19:19:23 red, I managed once, google for "Internet Connection Sharing" on maemo mailing lists, then see if it's worth the trouble Dec 22 19:19:28 moo-_-: wow, cool! so basically I install that on my plone site and it makes it ready for WML/WAP ? Dec 22 19:19:33 mgedmin: ok, will do Dec 22 19:19:37 moo-_-: what's "converged" here means ? Dec 22 19:19:40 sivang: forget WAP Dec 22 19:19:42 red, you can more easily do Bluetooth Dialup Networking by installing a package from Extras-devel Dec 22 19:19:53 but then your n900 will be offline while your laptop uses it's GSM/3G modem Dec 22 19:19:55 afaiu Dec 22 19:19:57 I've got that one but the speed is terrible Dec 22 19:20:00 sivang: you can publish both web and mobile content from the same site and choose on which media the content is available Dec 22 19:20:06 sivang: only web or only mobile Dec 22 19:20:15 sivang: like different front page for web and mobile Dec 22 19:20:15 like 0.3mbps DL and 0.2 upload Dec 22 19:20:22 compared to usb 1mpbs Dec 22 19:20:26 moo-_-: so, does it does conversion on real time or has to have two sets of fixtures ? Dec 22 19:20:27 * mgedmin sees three packages ready to be updated: BT DUN, fbreader, mplayer Dec 22 19:20:35 sivang: what conversion? :) Dec 22 19:20:44 mgedmin: Ok, update fbreader, then check what version zlibrary is at Dec 22 19:20:46 mgedmin: or have you found someway to make the BT connection fast enough to be used? Dec 22 19:20:51 mgedmin: Use HAM please, not apt-get Dec 22 19:20:52 sivang: it is not WAP, it is XHTML Dec 22 19:20:59 RST38h, app manager details, in the "updating" tab says it will update libzlibrary to 0.10.7-9 and fbreader to 0.10.7-9 Dec 22 19:20:59 I know it's not due my dongle, it worked pretty fast with iPhone tether Dec 22 19:21:00 moo-_-: I had the impression the product takes a normal front page, and converts it to something more usable on a mobile device on the fly. Dec 22 19:21:00 sivang: you can basically forget WAP today :P Dec 22 19:21:03 no one is doing it anymore Dec 22 19:21:12 RST38h, trying to update now Dec 22 19:21:18 sivang: no, you can have two different body HTML for front page and it picks the right one Dec 22 19:21:34 sivang: also content images and such are converted in fly Dec 22 19:21:34 mgedmin: details sound right but let us see if it does Dec 22 19:21:52 moo-_-: nice, what sort of conversion does it do for the images content types ? Dec 22 19:22:05 red: define fast enough; I've been browsing via BT using my 3G Nokia Series 40 phone; not as fast as broadband, noticeably better than GPRS Dec 22 19:22:21 probably better than EDGE too, although both were above the "fast enough" threshold Dec 22 19:22:33 sivang: resize Dec 22 19:22:37 haven't tried youtube over BT over 3G Dec 22 19:22:37 sivang: think mobile screen Dec 22 19:22:48 moo-_-: reduced resolution for faster xfer and such as well ? Dec 22 19:22:51 moo-_-: cool Dec 22 19:22:56 sivang: it sniffes mobile browser user agent, reads screen size from db and shrinks it so that 100% width is used Dec 22 19:23:01 mgedmin: well I tested few speedtests after tethering via bluetooth via the app in devel(or extras, cant recall). Best I had was about 450ms ping and 0.3mpbs/0.2mpbs speeds, while swapping to USB pc suite mode gives 1mpbs/0.3mpbs Dec 22 19:23:03 RST38h, "software updates successfully installed", apt-cache policy shows both fbreader and libzlibrary were updated to latest ver Dec 22 19:23:15 mgedmin: coooooooooooool Dec 22 19:23:17 promoting now Dec 22 19:23:26 sivang: check www.northvillage.fi and northvillage.mobi (live site) Dec 22 19:23:30 mgedmin: and the same Bluetooth dongle worked alot faster with another device (tether aswell) Dec 22 19:23:38 red: there are several versions of BT; some have better speeds than others, maybe you had an old BT dongle? Dec 22 19:23:50 ah, interesting! Dec 22 19:23:55 very interesting! Dec 22 19:24:01 it's a belkin f8t009, not too new though Dec 22 19:24:20 "higher speed with a different device" is telling, though Dec 22 19:24:26 I've yet to try BT dialup Dec 22 19:24:43 I recall having about 0.8mpbs gprs dl / 0.3mpbs ul with my old old nokia communicator Dec 22 19:24:47 X-Fade: web ui does not let me to promote to -testing Dec 22 19:24:51 via bt Dec 22 19:24:51 moo-_-: pretty cool product, I must say Dec 22 19:24:57 and less latency than via usb tethering :) Dec 22 19:25:05 but on n900 its the other way around surprisingly Dec 22 19:25:12 X-Fade: No link, neither with fbreader nor with libzlibrary. Is this how it should be? Some time limit? Dec 22 19:25:14 gprs = pain (5 KBytes/s), edge over BT = acceptable for email/svn checkins (20-25 KBytes/s) Dec 22 19:25:23 BUT, I was running windows XP back then on laptop, and now Win 7 Dec 22 19:25:30 haven't used 3G over BT enough to pay attention to speeds Dec 22 19:25:38 actually I lie, I've seen ~50 KBytes/s Dec 22 19:25:43 and sorry, I refer gprs as edge/3g/hdspa Dec 22 19:25:53 I got 3.6mbit connection on my phone Dec 22 19:25:55 sivang: hehe. we plan to release it "really" early next year. some company internal fuss has slowed us down. Dec 22 19:26:18 best I got was like 295KB/sec downloading stuff outside Dec 22 19:26:23 indoors its about 100KB/sec Dec 22 19:26:30 bad reception, too much concrete :) Dec 22 19:26:59 doesn't make any difference to tethering anyhow, would just be lovely to be able to get that 100KB/sec indoors via tethering without the USB cord Dec 22 19:27:19 thought ad hoc might be the key, but it seemed like loads of trouble beyond my skill level reading the forum thread Dec 22 19:27:24 Meanwhile in NYC: http://gizmodo.com/5432301/the-galactic-empire-has-taken-over-wall-street?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+gizmodo%2Ffull+%28Gizmodo%29&utm_content=Google+Feedfetcher Dec 22 19:27:31 so, BT is a bottleneck for me Dec 22 19:27:41 sivang: we have also some mobile specific plone parts ready. if you go here http://northvillage.mobi/individual/accommodation/accommodation-search/aihki-2 you can open the geolocation in Nokia Maps or Google Maps depending on your phone Dec 22 19:27:50 mgedmin: did you test it? Dec 22 19:28:02 sivang: also there is support for phone number links Dec 22 19:28:12 red, I was in Sweden without Internet except through my N900, and I used the setup described in this thread: http://maemo.org/community/maemo-users/internet_connection_sharing/ Dec 22 19:28:25 kinda worked (no iptables, so no NAT, so I had to use ssh socks5 proxy) Dec 22 19:28:35 thats the one I was reading Dec 22 19:28:36 except for bug 5712 Dec 22 19:28:37 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5712 N900 goes into swap hell with frozen UI, despite free RAM Dec 22 19:28:51 which has a newer version of my 'share-wifi' script than the email thread, I believe Dec 22 19:29:08 due to the difficulties and the scary bug, I cannot recommend this method Dec 22 19:29:20 but if speed is important and you're brave enough, go for it Dec 22 19:29:37 also, there's the option of using a USB cable in PC Suite mode -- then your PC sees the N900 as a USB 3G modem Dec 22 19:29:49 * mgedmin hates cables Dec 22 19:29:53 ah here they are Dec 22 19:30:21 X-Fade: I cannot promote neither fbreader nor zlibrary: there are not "Promote package" links in the web ui. Is it normal or is there a problem? Dec 22 19:32:45 Jaffa... ping Dec 22 19:33:18 moo-_-: what are phone number links ? Dec 22 19:34:03 moo-_-: like the ones that skype adds to the browser? Dec 22 19:35:02 The Russians, evidently using an SQL injection vulnerability, "gained unauthorized access to 7-Eleven, Inc.'s servers through 7-Eleven's public-facing website, and then leveraged that access into servers supporting ATM terminals located in 7-Eleven stores Dec 22 19:35:16 $800k total Dec 22 19:35:22 nice :) Dec 22 19:35:28 are you supposed to be able to use the address' for your contacts to interact with ovi maps somehow or is the icon there just to look pretty and confuse me? Dec 22 19:35:45 Eventually people will learn these things should not even be on the same network. Dec 22 19:35:58 derf: does this require learning? Dec 22 19:36:07 RST38h: Apparently, yes. Dec 22 19:36:12 isn't it obvious? Dec 22 19:36:50 You would think so. Dec 22 19:37:40 RST38h: is there an md5sum of the package? Usually you gotta wait a bit after it hits maemo.org/packages before promote button is there. Like when it's done the md5sum and size and all that is usually when promote button appears. Dec 22 19:37:40 I mean, I roll my eyes everytime the Hollywood villain hacks into the CIA via the public internet. Dec 22 19:38:02 But given how poorly consumer networks are constructed, you can forgive them for thinking this would be possible. Dec 22 19:38:08 jebba: Dunno, I am just a cow Dec 22 19:38:29 But the package went through the autobuilder, so it should have all the bells and whistles I guess Dec 22 19:38:53 * mgedmin moos at RST38h Dec 22 19:38:55 RST38h: It has to rsync over to the repository from the autobuilder. Dec 22 19:39:06 Which normally doesn't take that long. Dec 22 19:39:21 Where "not that long" in Maemo terms is like an hour or two. Dec 22 19:39:37 Unless it's the weekend, and then things get wedged and it takes two days. Dec 22 19:40:41 has been more than an hour though Dec 22 19:40:51 more like 8 hours Dec 22 19:40:57 It should tell you if it's happened. Dec 22 19:40:57 RST38h: whcih URL? Dec 22 19:41:09 http://maemo.org/packages/view/fbreader/ Dec 22 19:41:11 There'll be a "Package Imported" event after the "Built Successfully" event. Dec 22 19:41:26 got that Dec 22 19:41:57 Well, then something else must be the problem. Dec 22 19:42:10 Too bad there is no feedback as to why there's no Promote button. Dec 22 19:42:35 * RST38h prays for X-Fade Dec 22 19:42:35 what is fbreader doing in non-free? Dec 22 19:42:43 ??? Dec 22 19:42:59 ah, there was a binary only package Dec 22 19:43:00 "Fremantle Extras-devel non-free armel fbreader 0.10.7-4" Dec 22 19:43:02 yea Dec 22 19:43:14 that was before I managed to push the newer version through the autobuilder Dec 22 19:43:23 I thought maybe some non-open-source-version with proprietary DRM plugins Dec 22 19:43:28 nah Dec 22 19:43:41 mgedmin: i checked with wireshark, my dhcp server doesn't specify any default domain Dec 22 19:43:49 More like, "Oh God, please don't make me use the autobuilder." Dec 22 19:43:53 just a shortcut to let everyone use it before autobuilder does its job Dec 22 19:44:00 * mgedmin luuuuuves the autobuilder Dec 22 19:44:10 in fact, i can resolve local names on the n900 if i tell nslookup to use the real dns server directly, instead of localhost Dec 22 19:44:13 Masochist? Dec 22 19:44:20 mgedmin: Ok, you love it, you have sex with it Dec 22 19:44:41 derf, lazy Dec 22 19:44:45 RST38h: We don't need its tubes clogged up any more than they already are. Dec 22 19:44:57 ali1234, *shrug* Dec 22 19:45:03 anyone using Colloquy on a Mac, I've just found how to hide join/leaves, etc. : http://colloquy.info/project/wiki/FAQs#Doescolloquyhaveawaytoignorehidepartsnicksetcinabusyroom Dec 22 19:46:50 uhm repository servers are extremely slow today? Dec 22 19:47:00 * cehteh got his device :P .. Dec 22 19:47:09 cehteh: we can make them slower if you want Dec 22 19:47:11 :? Dec 22 19:47:19 cehteh: cool Dec 22 19:47:36 I got mine a few days ago. Dec 22 19:54:26 wow, the numbers in this place jumped Dec 22 19:54:33 anyone here handy with mediaserv by Jaffa? Dec 22 19:55:06 i believe i've configured it correctly, but when i navigate to ip:8090/browse/ i just get the mediaserv title and then below it says 'Not found' Dec 22 19:55:10 Jaffa probably is. Dec 22 19:55:19 amr: , Jaffa? :) Dec 22 19:55:24 oh :) Dec 22 19:55:28 yeah i know that :p Dec 22 19:56:49 amr: you could try Knots2 Dec 22 19:57:04 if what you want is to stream video/music from a serverpc to ur n900 Dec 22 19:57:15 (or any other pc) Dec 22 19:57:40 itd be an n810 Dec 22 19:57:49 works aswell Dec 22 19:57:55 does knots2 transcode? Dec 22 19:58:03 ah brilliant, it does Dec 22 19:58:09 is it worth to buy used n810 now? Dec 22 19:58:19 i havent used it no n810 thought Dec 22 19:58:29 but works lovely on n900 and also on my netbook :) Dec 22 19:58:34 heh Dec 22 19:58:41 im using tversity on my windows pc Dec 22 19:58:47 but i cant stand leaving my windows pc on, its so noisy Dec 22 19:58:53 I have the server on my windows 7 Dec 22 19:58:56 wazd depends if you want a phone i guess Dec 22 19:59:11 amr: I don't obviously Dec 22 19:59:23 pc @ living room and quite silent 3 fans Dec 22 19:59:23 well i reckon the n810 will be the last tablet i have Dec 22 19:59:32 red im envious Dec 22 19:59:36 my psu is horrendously loud Dec 22 19:59:38 wazd: you have n800 now? Dec 22 19:59:45 Stskeeps: : yes Dec 22 20:00:02 Stskeeps: And it's kinda dying :) Dec 22 20:00:40 Stskeeps: : Also something with keyboard would be cool Dec 22 20:01:06 amr: the downside is that the pc is dualcore 2.4ghz only :P Dec 22 20:01:18 oh well, one of my servers is 533MHz :p Dec 22 20:01:24 :) Dec 22 20:02:37 mfinkle - is your first name michael? Dec 22 20:02:50 nope, Mark Dec 22 20:04:03 kk, I swear everywhere I go this friend from my ol high school shows up, it's creepy! Dec 22 20:04:09 My N900's AV output is defect (left channel not working), so I will get it repaired tomorrow (and I received it yesterday). Dec 22 20:04:28 mgedmin: so it turns out dnsmasq has an option to arbitrarily reject hostnames that have no domain, and for some reason, nokia decided to turn it on Dec 22 20:04:48 So Dec 22 20:04:51 Yes/no? :) Dec 22 20:05:17 wazd: unsure. the n810 screen is an improvement Dec 22 20:05:33 readable in sunlight Dec 22 20:05:40 minisd is a downer Dec 22 20:05:42 Stskeeps: : yeah Dec 22 20:05:51 gps .. works Dec 22 20:06:41 amr: 'lo Dec 22 20:06:51 amr: Have you configured it to point at an actual real directory? Dec 22 20:06:56 yeah Dec 22 20:06:59 and ive got some data in there Dec 22 20:07:22 I haven't used it in a while, TBH. Anything in the log? Dec 22 20:07:39 good point, ill have a look after apt finishes churning Dec 22 20:07:42 :) Dec 22 20:07:51 :) Dec 22 20:09:39 http://tabletui.wordpress.com/2009/12/22/2010-ui-countdown-9-%E2%80%93-extras-assistant/ btw Dec 22 20:09:46 where's the log, Jaffa? heh Dec 22 20:10:10 amr: /tmp/mediaserv.log, IIRC Dec 22 20:10:40 ill wipe it, start mediaserv again and then see what happens Dec 22 20:10:41 sec Dec 22 20:11:01 nice link wazd :) Dec 22 20:11:54 http://paste-it.net/public/e79dc11/ Jaffa Dec 22 20:13:09 amr: hmm Dec 22 20:13:43 bear with me one min Dec 22 20:14:15 wazd: Oh, I've seen this app ;) Dec 22 20:14:32 hmm i thought it might be because i edited the config located in ~/.mediaserv Dec 22 20:14:46 do i need to move the mediaserv executable anywhere? Dec 22 20:14:47 X-Fade: : yeah, kinda :) Dec 22 20:15:02 amr: nope, don't think so Dec 22 20:15:07 wazd: Nah, Daniel showed it to me. Worked nicely already. Dec 22 20:15:08 hrm Dec 22 20:15:20 X-Fade: : oh, cool :) Dec 22 20:15:38 * wazd thinks mini-sd is an absolute fail Dec 22 20:16:07 sivang: phone number link = click to call. There are one "standard" format and one used by iPhone. Dec 22 20:16:20 sivang: there are various other special links on mobile browsers. like click to send sms, etc. Dec 22 20:19:30 X-Fade: Any idea why it does not let me promote fbread/zlibrary to -testing? Dec 22 20:19:40 wazd: micro-sd, you mean? Dec 22 20:19:48 RST38h: : mini Dec 22 20:19:55 RST38h: the one in n810 Dec 22 20:20:00 RST38h: Do you see the promote link? Dec 22 20:20:53 nope Dec 22 20:20:59 that's why I am asking Dec 22 20:21:13 wazd: actually I like the mini, micro I tend to lose in my hands Dec 22 20:21:55 RST38h: : it's 2Gb only Dec 22 20:21:58 you know what sucks about minisd? those adapters... they wear out too quick Dec 22 20:22:00 RST38h: lame :) Dec 22 20:22:03 RST38h: Does it show you as being logged in? Dec 22 20:22:18 RST38h: And are you here? http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_armel/fbreader/0.10.7-9 Dec 22 20:22:32 going there Dec 22 20:22:49 RST38h: and what do you think bout using Q3 Engine for game developing? :) Dec 22 20:23:23 X-Fade: Oh I see my problem now Dec 22 20:23:37 X-Fade: Have to got to a specific VERSION page to see the link! Dec 22 20:24:00 RST38h: Ah, yeah. You do. Dec 22 20:24:07 wazd: The Q3 itself is pretty raw on N900 Dec 22 20:24:19 wazd: So, probably not right away Dec 22 20:24:48 RST38h: hmm, I thought it was running pretty fast Dec 22 20:24:57 RST38h: Do you want me to remove the non-free version btw? Dec 22 20:25:22 wazd: it is running fast, but there are some problems with controls and you cannot easily exit it :) Dec 22 20:25:42 X-Fade: Yes, please. Also, Vulture's is supposed to have a free version in the repos right now Dec 22 20:26:27 hmmm Dec 22 20:26:28 RST38h: well, the game is not supposed to be FPS :) Dec 22 20:26:32 fingers crossed knots2 works \o Dec 22 20:26:57 RST38h: : at least you can bind the buttons to move around Dec 22 20:27:09 wazd: if you want my suggestion, I would suggest something along the lines of Vulture's Dec 22 20:27:28 wazd: Either turn based rogue like or a strategy game in japanese style Dec 22 20:27:44 wazd: because it is not dynamic, users will have time to think Dec 22 20:27:50 RST38h: : non 3d - too much drawing :( Dec 22 20:28:01 RST38h: Also, it'll be much easier on battery life. Dec 22 20:28:02 wazd: well, you can make it 2d or axonometric Dec 22 20:28:08 derf: true Dec 22 20:28:23 wazd: If you want some examples of such games, I will locate some Dec 22 20:28:27 Unless it's like Freeciv... that is sllllooowwww. Dec 22 20:28:36 freeciv is an overkill Dec 22 20:28:44 RST38h: also, strategies needs AI Dec 22 20:28:52 wazd: AI is not hard Dec 22 20:28:53 And heck, so was that other hex-based one. Dec 22 20:29:01 Sandworm doesn't :) Dec 22 20:29:25 it does, you want semi-sentient food Dec 22 20:30:22 ali1234, file a bug! Dec 22 20:30:31 mgedmin: i already have Dec 22 20:30:38 https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7239 Dec 22 20:30:39 Bug 7239: N900 cannot resolve simple DNS hostnames without domains Dec 22 20:31:07 ah ok Dec 22 20:31:31 RST38h: : I remember how much it took to release Pocket Heroes :) Dec 22 20:32:02 +1 for turn based games Dec 22 20:32:41 wazd: well, it depends on the programmer not on the presense of ai Dec 22 20:33:00 here is "mine", and yes, it works on maemo (it's all python): http://al.robotfuzz.com/~al/md/ Dec 22 20:33:15 X-Fade: You probably also want to kework non-free libzlibrary Dec 22 20:33:48 "kework" is such a nice term for it Dec 22 20:39:26 ali1234: does asking to lookup hostname. work? Dec 22 20:39:33 no Dec 22 20:40:21 is it just me or has a lot of old time posts of t.m.o abandoned it Dec 22 20:40:40 talk is insane. Dec 22 20:40:45 AndrewBlack: new times and a lot of traffic Dec 22 20:40:51 flat with no threading and sucky web-UI Dec 22 20:41:04 * RST38h wants no threading Dec 22 20:41:04 trn did it better in 1992? Dec 22 20:41:12 err Dec 22 20:41:26 but yes, the "classic" talk ui is tolerable but not the tmo "custom" ui Dec 22 20:41:27 Stskeeps, yeah but I cant figure out if old people are gone from it or if there are so many new peoples post it just feelsthat way Dec 22 20:41:47 I never saw it before the custom UI Dec 22 20:42:00 internettablettalk.com Dec 22 20:42:20 AndrewBlack: a combination Dec 22 20:42:24 I normally just use my n900 and my minimalist ui Dec 22 20:42:37 the new ui is seriously uncomfortable, but comfort wasn't the priority in its design Dec 22 20:42:46 AndrewBlack: same here Dec 22 20:42:55 it's a curse of 'new posts' Dec 22 20:43:10 i am thinking to use sections again Dec 22 20:43:34 did someone try cinaest Dec 22 20:43:35 ? Dec 22 20:43:41 well I was getting geared up for a Minimalist 3.0 redesign but I hate to say it dont care about t.m.o that much about t.m.o anymore lol Dec 22 20:45:15 AndrewBlack: its a transformation atm still, but things are less insane than when shipping threads existed Dec 22 20:45:51 Sts: give it another 3-4 months, the fanboys will lose interest and it will be back to (semi)normal. Hopefully, anyway Dec 22 20:46:25 RST38h: i am curious how next council looks like Dec 22 20:46:50 RST38h, I hope so still thinking of putting Minimalist fixes on back burner again and doing another theme lol Dec 22 20:46:54 Next council = God, Orangebox... Dec 22 20:46:59 * RST38h does not care about politics Dec 22 20:47:14 RevdKathy: Do not forget yourself, Rushmore, and the Venom guy Dec 22 20:47:21 my n900 doesn't react to usb cable insertion (neither does syslog on the linux desktop) since the battery is full. can I somehow force mass storage mode? Dec 22 20:47:30 Oh yes, us n00bs atr going to take over Dec 22 20:47:36 RevdKathy: You will do psychological councelling. Ever done this to teenagers? Dec 22 20:47:44 a bit, why? Dec 22 20:48:22 'cause you will have to do that a lot with the above council selection... Dec 22 20:48:22 (I dont think you need worry about an 'all-n00b' council seriously) Dec 22 20:48:32 LOL yeah Dec 22 20:48:48 Beats me how teens can afford n900 Dec 22 20:49:11 "Father gave it to me as a gift" =) Dec 22 20:50:13 Oh yes, but it's crap so I sold it on ebay. I forgot that Dec 22 20:50:16 Whoever feels like committing a good deed tonight, vote for http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_non-free_armel/fmsx/3.5.7-1/ Dec 22 20:50:37 One last vote and fMSX *finally* goes into proper Extras (about two months later than it should have :() Dec 22 20:51:09 I voted no you need 2 votes no lol Dec 22 20:51:27 * RST38h moos at Andrew woefully Dec 22 20:51:48 RST38h: No, I mean the whole thing Dec 22 20:51:48 RST38h: : visuals and stuff :) Dec 22 20:51:51 RST38h, Im kidding I voted yes I even testing it a while back just never voted Dec 22 20:51:59 = Dec 22 20:52:03 =) Dec 22 20:52:06 Tanuva, tap the status bar, tap usb, select mass storage Dec 22 20:52:34 Promoting to Extras =) Dec 22 20:52:47 RST38h - I would if I understood what it does Dec 22 20:52:52 what the voting app needs is screenshots Dec 22 20:52:53 mgedmin: usb doesn't show up there, that's the problem. ne device doesn't react to the usb cable (still after a reboot) Dec 22 20:53:06 nothing like a screenshot to pique somebody's interest to install and evaluate and vote for the app Dec 22 20:54:00 Tanuva, bug 6004? Dec 22 20:54:01 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6004 N900 sometimes ignores USB data cable Dec 22 20:54:13 which is RESOLVED, so searches don't see it Dec 22 20:54:23 RevdKathy: It emulates an ancient home PC Dec 22 20:54:34 andre__, please please please can we have "FIX COMMITTED" and "FIX RELEASED" as separate statuses? Dec 22 20:54:36 Should boot into BASIC Dec 22 20:54:49 I'd gathered that much - the question then being why I would want it to Dec 22 20:55:04 that would prevent bugzilla "no it's not FIXED until I have it in my hands", "no it's FIXED internally, don't waste our time complaining" flamewars Dec 22 20:55:09 well, lessen Dec 22 20:55:45 RevdKathy: Depends. You might either program in BASIC (makes a good learnign tool for kids) or load some game and play it Dec 22 20:56:14 ahh right - my grandfather knew basic. I don't Dec 22 20:57:05 That's my problem with the extras repository: a lot of the stuff is niche and I ask myself whether I'd actually want it Dec 22 20:57:08 pvanhoof: ping Dec 22 20:57:18 hard to test stuff you don't really understand Dec 22 20:57:33 mgedmin i think FIXED is internal and VERIFIED is external or something like that? Dec 22 20:57:42 mgedmin: theres 2009.42-11 on my phone (received yesterday), might be that bug Dec 22 20:57:45 hi, how much battery time will i get on a n900?? no 3g, only wifi as internet, moderate use? Dec 22 20:57:48 RevdKathy: You do not necessarily need to use it, just test that it works Dec 22 20:58:04 samd, how many hours is "moderate use"? Dec 22 20:58:05 Hard to do that if I don't know how or why, though Dec 22 20:58:07 There is some niche stuff but most is not niche enough to be uncomprehensible Dec 22 20:58:11 SmilyOrg, it's mostly a matter of appearances, I suppose Dec 22 20:58:25 to bug reporters "FIXED" seems incorrect since they're still suffering Dec 22 20:58:30 I;m very stupid - still trying to work out supertux (I don;t do games) Dec 22 20:59:00 samd, I use my n900 *a lot*, so my battery runs out in less than a day Dec 22 20:59:11 mgedmin-> umm idle most of the time, maybe 1 hour of web surfing, some pictures, wifi conected Dec 22 20:59:14 mgedmin i agree, the names are confusing at first Dec 22 20:59:31 samd, if you don't use it at all, it lasts ~90 hours? somebody measured once Dec 22 20:59:37 samd - I use mine 'moderately' and seldom use much more than half the battery in a day Dec 22 20:59:57 3rd-party apps may affect battery life Dec 22 21:00:02 I'm pretty sure they affect mine Dec 22 21:00:02 samd: for example - ssh'd into n900 over wlan all the time, asking about battery use every 30s, use maybe an hour - lasted over 27 hours before I got bored. Dec 22 21:00:14 mgedmin: only if they are badly written Dec 22 21:00:21 or it could be the WiFi power-savings that I've disabled Dec 22 21:00:28 mgedmin: and there is exact definition of what badly written is in this case Dec 22 21:00:28 RST38h, I'm assuming apps are badly-written by default Dec 22 21:00:33 no Dec 22 21:00:37 and then get fixed, maybe Dec 22 21:00:38 ;) Dec 22 21:00:39 RST38h: or do things that are required to use lots of battery by definition Dec 22 21:00:49 Speed: Not necessarily Dec 22 21:00:53 RST38h: it's not possible to do some things in an energy saving manner. Dec 22 21:01:02 Speed: See, N900 has got that "locked" mode Dec 22 21:01:04 RST38h: for example, seti@home. Dec 22 21:01:08 :) Dec 22 21:01:16 Speed: yea, but we are not talking cpu gobblers here Dec 22 21:01:27 mgedmin, RevdKathy ,, oo sounds good for me, i just dont want to get caugh on the middle of the day w/o battery, ive heard of a wifi bug which drains the battery in 5 hours , which is why i was worried (bug 6615) Dec 22 21:01:28 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6615 Battery Dies Under 6 Hours with Very Moderate Use Dec 22 21:01:29 RST38h: I don't mean CPU, I mean network protocols that require activity. Dec 22 21:01:38 hei guys Dec 22 21:01:49 when do u thing n900 can make video call Dec 22 21:01:50 Speed: anyways, a well behaved app should shut down all timers and wait for gtk events Dec 22 21:01:57 if I could get garage to work with me I would have maemo-org theme ready for testing Dec 22 21:02:00 Speed: then it will not be eating battery Dec 22 21:02:00 RST38h: say IRC +3G = ~5h Dec 22 21:02:10 do not use irc around the clock Dec 22 21:02:26 RST38h: and there isn't a easy way to get round that without a proxy Dec 22 21:02:29 RST38h: heresy! Dec 22 21:02:54 samd - I don't know what that is: my n900 switches seamlessly between good wifi and a rather dodgy gprs signal. Even with a patchy signal, I don;t use much more than half a battery Dec 22 21:03:13 Speed: remote shell account + screen Dec 22 21:03:26 gprs seems to be lots more power efficient than 3g Dec 22 21:03:33 it is Dec 22 21:03:39 RevdKathy-> ight, that sounds about rite for me :), thanks every1 for the info Dec 22 21:03:45 samd: I use mucis play, check email, maybe play online for half an hour at lunchtime, check twitter a few times a day, use the FM transmitter a bit Dec 22 21:03:46 yeah the batteru is not the best Dec 22 21:03:49 RST38h: yes, I know, I was just using IRC as a protocol example of something that requires heavy battery use Dec 22 21:04:04 samd: never seen the battery below green Dec 22 21:04:08 RST38h: (at least on 3g) Dec 22 21:04:34 RevdKathy-> alright, i cant wait to get mine , its being shipped today, :))), thanks for the info Dec 22 21:04:51 Congrats, samd. Good luck with a safe delivery Dec 22 21:04:52 Speed: I am using icq, gtalk, gizmo, skype accounts at the same time, battery lasts through the day Dec 22 21:05:01 Speed: EGPRS all WiFi Dec 22 21:05:02 RevdKathy-> thankss Dec 22 21:05:49 RST38h: yes - 3g is especially bad in this case. Dec 22 21:06:03 wifi with ps is quite lightweight indeed. Dec 22 21:06:22 what is the problem with this battety Dec 22 21:06:48 There isn't a problem as such with the battery. Dec 22 21:06:56 other than it does not have infinite life. Dec 22 21:07:10 i can only use for one day Dec 22 21:07:11 In most peoples use-cases, it's quite adequate. Dec 22 21:07:18 * AndrewBlack wonders how bad his bluetooth headphones he is getting are going to suck the n900 battery Dec 22 21:07:23 ok, g'night all Dec 22 21:07:40 g;nite Dec 22 21:07:43 does internet affect lots of the battery Dec 22 21:08:12 jiajia: everything affects the battery. Dec 22 21:08:13 3g is supposed to drain it quite fast, gprs not so much Dec 22 21:08:41 3g drains it a lot - though this isn't so bad for intermittent large loads like large webpages Dec 22 21:08:49 i can only use for one day this phone about the battery and which i did not use so often Dec 22 21:08:51 gprs is good for small amounts of data. Dec 22 21:09:06 why do you care about battery life of >1 day? Dec 22 21:09:16 if you can charge it when you go to sleep. Dec 22 21:09:44 i do that but if i use little more in a day the battery will die Dec 22 21:09:49 * RST38h wishes somebody finally removed all those fake votes from google crawler Dec 22 21:12:48 Im giving up maybe my home computer will have better luck with garage today Dec 22 21:14:25 on tablets-dev I only find 42-11 images, the bug 6009 comments said there's at least 46-16 (Sep 2009) somewhere out there. Kind of testing image? Might I get that somewhere? Dec 22 21:14:26 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6009 "Enter" key sends wrong keycode to console applications Dec 22 21:14:47 okay, 6009 seems to be wrong Dec 22 21:14:48 Tanuva, internal build, you won't get it Dec 22 21:14:53 I see Dec 22 21:15:04 so I need to wait for that bug fix? Dec 22 21:15:04 all it means is that the next public release with a build number greater than 46-16 will have the fix in it Dec 22 21:15:07 yeah Dec 22 21:15:14 in the meantime, unplugging-and-replugging seems to help Dec 22 21:15:20 or try rebooting at worst Dec 22 21:15:27 wait, sorry, wrong bug Dec 22 21:15:29 forget I said anything Dec 22 21:15:35 thought you were still talking about 6004 Dec 22 21:15:50 being new to a community quite sucks. Dec 22 21:16:08 workaround: in xterm press ctrl-j or ctrl-m instead of enter Dec 22 21:16:55 in theory it should be possible to build a newer osso-xterm (with the fix, presumably) and install it Dec 22 21:17:14 lemme know if anyone needs a 5 expansys voucher... I'm not gonna use mine Dec 22 21:17:40 mgedmin: I remembered the wrong bug id, didn't mean that issue but the one with the not-recognized usb cable :) Dec 22 21:18:26 yeah, then unplug/replug a few times, let us know in the bug tracker if that fixes it or not Dec 22 21:20:15 oh my god. Dec 22 21:21:02 did it explode? Dec 22 21:21:03 the usb "lengthening"? cable I used between the n900's cable and my desktop wasn't plugged into the latter. Dec 22 21:21:18 don't ask me how it got out of there, but it was. Dec 22 21:22:05 http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Jebba#Package_Building_HOWTO new section Dec 22 21:22:43 ha ha ha Dec 22 21:22:58 and the word you're looking for is "extension", I suppose Dec 22 21:23:07 sounds reasonable Dec 22 21:23:53 gaaah maemo.org why are you soooo sloooow? Dec 22 21:24:08 gaaaah planet.maemo.org, why do you insist on spying on my clicks in my rss feed reader? Dec 22 21:24:15 just gimme the links directly into the respective blogs Dec 22 21:24:25 then I'll be able to access them without melting your server to the ground Dec 22 21:26:04 http://quitcoding.com/?page=work#snowtter is cool and should be in Extras Dec 22 21:26:32 * mgedmin wonders if libqt is optified Dec 22 21:29:04 yeah, libqt 4.5 is not very impressive: snowtter is slow and has no anti-aliasing Dec 22 21:29:16 non-anti-aliased rotated text is ugly and unreadably Dec 22 21:29:30 libqt 4.6 is not in extras-devel, so I will ignore its existence Dec 22 21:30:26 mgedmin, yes, after 3.4 Dec 22 21:30:52 woohoo! Dec 22 21:30:54 probably Dec 22 21:30:59 :) Dec 22 21:31:10 * mgedmin is not sure what "3.4" means Dec 22 21:31:13 bugzilla version? Dec 22 21:36:02 andre__: browser team doesn't have any intention of looking at brainstorm ;-) Dec 22 21:36:57 Has anyone gotten around to using the lshal information about the battery to do a very in depth battery widget that told you how much power you were averaging over various spans of time? Dec 22 21:39:46 I know what the maemo port of cxchat needs Dec 22 21:40:32 It needs to blink the blue LED when you get a PM or you get a highlight Dec 22 21:40:51 you dont say Dec 22 21:41:07 what's cxchat? Dec 22 21:41:14 not to mention finger scrolling Dec 22 21:42:21 * mgedmin wishes wazd designed a nice UI for a Maemo IRC client Dec 22 21:42:32 mgedmin, did you ever find out what 3.4 stood for? Dec 22 21:42:36 mgedmin: a typo, c and x are extremely close on this thing Dec 22 21:42:40 and a less obese input box Dec 22 21:43:09 simula, no Dec 22 21:43:15 input is about twice as high as the text... and my test twice as big as the log text Dec 22 21:43:23 text* Dec 22 21:43:41 * simula is looking forward to an optified Qt 4.6 too :) Dec 22 21:44:08 less ui, more chat! irssi has the modifier key bar too meeeeeh Dec 22 21:45:30 is there any way to disable the fone for use in an airplane? (turn off gsm/wifi/etc) Dec 22 21:45:53 offline mode? Dec 22 21:45:55 press the power button, a menu pops up, there's a flight mode iirc Dec 22 21:46:05 if you're talking about the n900 Dec 22 21:46:38 ZAGG's cheapo shipping sure is slow Dec 22 21:47:11 I suspect they duct taped my invisible shield to a toddler in Salt Lake City and told him to walk east Dec 22 21:47:35 well... now i know why people use irssi Dec 22 21:47:43 weird, i can't view my wiki page on the maemo browser now for some reason. Dec 22 21:47:50 * wazd wishes for more hours in a day Dec 22 21:48:03 more* Dec 22 21:48:04 wazd: choose saturn Dec 22 21:48:29 oh wait, it has more days in a year Dec 22 21:48:32 jebba:url? Dec 22 21:48:38 or any page in the wiki for that matter. or any page for that matter. EVerything is all white. Hmm Dec 22 21:48:39 and for used n810 :D Dec 22 21:48:51 im at the phone Dec 22 21:49:17 * jebba rebooting fone... Dec 22 21:49:27 is the keyboard of n810 that unusable as some people say? Dec 22 21:49:46 19 lines vs 16 hmm Dec 22 21:49:55 wazd what do they say? Dec 22 21:50:06 it's very hard and very flat Dec 22 21:50:11 wazd: why didnt you asked before. i've just sold mine Dec 22 21:50:26 but it makes up for that by being big Dec 22 21:50:43 anyone played with pulseaudio? have some basic questions... Dec 22 21:51:17 the n900 keyboard is an improvement for sure.. but i really miss dedicate fullscreen/menu buttins Dec 22 21:51:21 * GAN900 wants his proxy back. Dec 22 21:51:48 thresh: : well, I'm still thinking, nothing particular :) Dec 22 21:52:03 although ctrl+enter is good enough Dec 22 21:52:06 Gadgetoid_n900: *very* hard? :) Dec 22 21:52:33 isn't it from the same opera as *hard" resistive screens? :) Dec 22 21:52:35 all happy after reboot... Dec 22 21:52:37 wazd: well at least it'd be easier for me to actually deliver it to a buyer Dec 22 21:52:57 hard as in key feel Dec 22 21:53:16 Gadgetoid_n900: : I understand Dec 22 21:53:34 Gadgetoid_n900: : is it usable? Dec 22 21:53:45 works for me Dec 22 21:53:49 cool Dec 22 21:53:59 better than the droid Dec 22 21:54:09 the only bad thing is mini-SD Dec 22 21:54:16 pretty lame format Dec 22 21:54:17 i agree Dec 22 21:54:38 and micro-usb maybe :) Dec 22 21:55:35 micro usb ends up on everything Dec 22 21:56:12 so i can charge my tablet mifi n900 and lord knows what else with the same one cable Dec 22 21:56:55 hmmm imac insomnia Dec 22 21:57:37 that would be why Dec 22 22:00:03 screen sharing teehee Dec 22 22:01:50 kepow Dec 22 22:02:41 the n810 has the same problem as the n900- one sided function key Dec 22 22:03:22 123!"@^~ all require a strech Dec 22 22:03:26 stretch Dec 22 22:04:12 but the n900 is narrow enough to make only 1* problematic Dec 22 22:04:56 plus all the common symbols are on the right Dec 22 22:09:08 erm, is anyone having a bug on their N900 where their Nokia Messaging account just disappears for no reason? Dec 22 22:09:19 it's the second time today that it's happened Dec 22 22:09:43 seen lcuk Dec 22 22:09:47 .seen lcuk Dec 22 22:09:50 !seen lcuk Dec 22 22:09:51 lame Dec 22 22:09:55 ~seen lcuk Dec 22 22:09:57 lcuk was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 5h 16m 7s ago, saying: 'zerojay, *rolleyes* because 1 mail gets dropped, just ask again. theres 100000001 other things the guys are doing'. Dec 22 22:10:04 thanks :) Dec 22 22:10:09 yw :) Dec 22 22:11:25 wow....unstable Dec 22 22:12:09 yay holiday \o/ Dec 22 22:13:27 np: Madonna - Holiday. Dec 22 22:17:52 hmm.. any reason why touch screen click sounds have stopped working? Dec 22 22:17:57 i flashed my n810 yesterday Dec 22 22:19:12 Greetings Maemoians! Dec 22 22:21:02 amr, check your sound settings Dec 22 22:21:11 i did, theyre on :p Dec 22 22:21:16 havent changed them since i flashed it Dec 22 22:21:33 maybe check the volume control? Dec 22 22:21:48 also on max Dec 22 22:21:51 sounds working Dec 22 22:21:58 keyboard sounds work Dec 22 22:22:01 did you flash it with the less annoying firmware? Dec 22 22:22:01 music works Dec 22 22:22:12 pardon? i just flashed it using the standard nokia firmware Dec 22 22:22:16 it WAS working yesterday Dec 22 22:22:24 just noticed now it isnt working today Dec 22 22:22:34 amr: touchscreen clicks or vibration? Dec 22 22:22:40 touchscreen clicks Dec 22 22:22:45 the n810 doesnt vibrate Dec 22 22:22:52 gonna give it a reboot Dec 22 22:23:02 X-Fade, something happening with the TI emulator in maemo5 downloads Dec 22 22:23:07 congrats.... its now 25% less annoying Dec 22 22:23:09 seems the lardman bug :D Dec 22 22:23:16 i miss the clicks! Dec 22 22:23:29 i usuall turn them off, but i miss them now i dont have the option :p Dec 22 22:23:43 TI emulator? Dec 22 22:23:48 Oh, the calculator. Dec 22 22:24:04 I was thinking DSP. Dec 22 22:24:12 ah success, theyre back Dec 22 22:25:04 huh Dec 22 22:25:29 derf, did you noticed that lardman is always in the front page of maemo.org ? :D Dec 22 22:25:44 I'm not sure I've ever visited the front page of maemo.org. Dec 22 22:25:46 the classic black theme on t.m.o is beautiful. did reggie do all that? Dec 22 22:25:47 seems that the emulator got the same status Dec 22 22:27:04 you can't be saved! Dec 22 22:27:04 hmm.. my battery seemed to drain dry during sleep Dec 22 22:28:51 also, does rtcomm work for msn anymore? Dec 22 22:29:06 through telepathy-haze Dec 22 22:33:51 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQesFbpryzM Dec 22 22:33:56 prehistoric dj Dec 22 22:35:26 hehe awesome Dec 22 22:35:39 LOL Dec 22 22:36:02 I like the fat stalin look-a-like :) Dec 22 22:49:04 VDVsx: Is he *still* on the frontpage? I thought he was less random now ;-) Dec 22 22:49:35 Jaffa, nah, lardman is the boss ;) Dec 22 22:50:35 Jaffa, btw, do you've any py2deb knowledge ? Dec 22 22:50:42 VDVsx: Nope Dec 22 22:50:50 bahh Dec 22 22:50:58 me neither Dec 22 22:51:19 was trying to help this guy: http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/witter/0.1.1-9/ Dec 22 22:51:31 hmhm, did someone manage to do something with the “Transfer & Sync” interface in settings? Dec 22 22:51:38 but I never used py2deb Dec 22 22:51:55 no device seem to be detected even with my laptop having bluetooth on Dec 22 22:52:52 Corsac, yes, transfer all my stuff from my S60 to the n900 Dec 22 22:53:15 calendar + notes + contacts Dec 22 22:58:48 hmhm, weird Dec 22 23:26:13 i'm having an issue with my n900 with apt Dec 22 23:26:21 i have the current public software releases with the extras repository enabled Dec 22 23:26:33 apt-cache search feedservice gives no results for me but does for someone else with the exact same repositories Dec 22 23:26:55 i can't install Ap News as a result Dec 22 23:27:02 as it depends on feedservice-plugin-ap Dec 22 23:27:08 which cannot be found Dec 22 23:27:15 on my n900, but can on the other person's Dec 22 23:27:38 similarly the mirror app depends on gstreamer0.10-plugins-good-extra Dec 22 23:27:44 which also cannot be found Dec 22 23:27:52 did you run apt-get update? Dec 22 23:28:03 these are both in the nokia-applications explicit armel repository according to maemo.org Dec 22 23:28:03 the repos update ok? you have spelled frematle correctly ? Dec 22 23:28:06 yes Dec 22 23:28:09 yes Dec 22 23:28:34 my apt-cache policy: Dec 22 23:28:37 http://pastebin.com/m783a92c3 Dec 22 23:28:50 * SpeedEvil1 spent ages wondering why it diddn't work with freemantle Dec 22 23:29:05 my /etc/apt/sources.list.d/hildon-application-manager.list Dec 22 23:29:17 deb https://downloads.maemo.nokia.com/fremantle/apps/ ./ Dec 22 23:29:21 deb https://downloads.maemo.nokia.com/fremantle/203 ./ Dec 22 23:29:36 and Dec 22 23:29:38 deb http://repository.maemo.org/extras/ fremantle free non-free Dec 22 23:29:45 (sorry for the volume of messages) Dec 22 23:30:30 we wondered if maybe the apt cache was busted, so i cleared that out and re-apt-get update Dec 22 23:30:35 still the same Dec 22 23:30:59 try a dnslookup for the repo url on the device Dec 22 23:31:19 * VDVsx amuses with orangebox's thread, ha ha :) Dec 22 23:31:32 orange? Dec 22 23:31:53 i had a timeout issue using my routers dns cache that was resolved by poiting the n900 at my isp's dns Dec 22 23:31:58 woglinde, its the name of the troll Dec 22 23:32:04 oh Dec 22 23:32:38 I thought it were about the orange maemo www theme Dec 22 23:32:38 fnordianslippers: nope, i can ping it fine Dec 22 23:33:18 oh well. Dec 22 23:35:19 superdump, check if there's something in the app manager logs after updating using the app itself Dec 22 23:36:10 VDVsx: i don't think there was but i'll check Dec 22 23:36:23 nope Dec 22 23:36:25 nothing Dec 22 23:36:47 and apt-get update succeeds just fine in rootsh Dec 22 23:37:12 (only running one at a time of course) Dec 22 23:37:44 superdump, so the problem is only the nokia repository isn't ? Dec 22 23:37:53 extras works fine Dec 22 23:37:54 ? Dec 22 23:38:47 i'm not sure, but the dependencies that are missing are from nokia Dec 22 23:38:53 so i guess so Dec 22 23:39:04 i have installed things from extras Dec 22 23:39:49 superdump mabyee somone forgot to promote the package Dec 22 23:40:19 but it shows in other people's apt-cache Dec 22 23:40:22 can be a problem with the stupid hash key needed for that repo, but a update should also give errors Dec 22 23:40:42 good nite Dec 22 23:42:32 any sbdmock folks around? Or pythoners? debian lenny has no python-pip ... Dec 22 23:43:26 VDVsx: well, a bit earlier a mozilla fennec repo was complaining about a gpg key Dec 22 23:43:34 i don't know if that's related... Dec 22 23:43:42 there are no errors for the nokia repos though Dec 22 23:45:14 superdump, gpg key is a common error, happens a lot in extras-testing also Dec 22 23:45:48 well, the repos can be down, did you tried to download the apps in the other phone ? Dec 22 23:47:02 i'll see Dec 22 23:48:37 hmm xchat ui sucks Dec 22 23:49:53 but at least it works Dec 22 23:50:34 is it normal on the n900 to hear a slighty scratchy noise when using the unlock switch? Dec 22 23:52:54 another example - i can't install bounce evolution from maemo select Dec 22 23:53:06 hace you been playing with your n900 in the sandbox again? Dec 22 23:53:59 23:48 hmm xchat ui sucks <- indeed Dec 22 23:54:00 its terrible Dec 22 23:54:18 it is fine for a desktop Dec 22 23:54:28 yeah i think all they did was cross comipile it lol Dec 22 23:54:32 *cough*irssi*cough* Dec 22 23:54:43 but it doesnt translate well to touch Dec 22 23:54:55 can i change the background color of the teminal? Dec 22 23:54:57 the xchat UI could easily be worse Dec 22 23:55:32 definitely Dec 22 23:55:42 but it could also easily but a lot better Dec 22 23:55:48 can you map escape to a hardware key? Dec 22 23:56:02 the toolbar on the terminal sucks Dec 22 23:56:08 yeah Dec 22 23:56:16 h/o Dec 22 23:56:25 i'd like a real fullscreen terminal Dec 22 23:56:32 dang it Dec 22 23:56:44 there was an article i saw yesterday Dec 22 23:57:59 maemo also needs to intergrate vpn like NM does Dec 22 23:58:11 http://blogs.igalia.com/berto/2009/12/17/remapping-the-n900-arrow-keys/ Dec 22 23:58:33 vpn management with NM is sooo nice Dec 22 23:58:37 gcobb: you got a sample maemo-fremantle-armel-extras-devel.cfg I can use for sbdmock ? Dec 23 00:01:27 Jaffa: i need a shoulder to cry on Dec 23 00:02:10 anyone using sbdmock with fremantle? :) FWIW, i built python-pip for lenny if anyone needs it Dec 23 00:04:01 man i need a hardware tab key Dec 23 00:04:40 this keyboard really isnt good for using it as an X terminal Dec 23 00:05:01 slide in from the left of the screen should do it. Dec 23 00:05:12 ctrl-t ? Dec 23 00:05:14 (it doesn't) Dec 23 00:05:45 jaek__: what about the on-screen-tab? Dec 23 00:06:34 jaek__: i've had no trouble using the onscreen tab Dec 23 00:06:46 as hit targets go, it's bigger than a normal key Dec 23 00:09:46 I'd like to lose the onscreen tab, and have a few gestures - but... Dec 23 00:10:33 yeah, because interfering with scrolling and selection and clicking into links are such great ideas Dec 23 00:12:52 yeah i dont want to resort to using onscreen soft keys Dec 23 00:13:07 personally, clicking into links isn't that valuable to me, and I'd generally prefer pgup/down to scrolly Dec 23 00:13:38 And yes, of course the proper response is to make my own term. Dec 23 00:13:39 But meh. Dec 23 00:14:06 pssh battery barely lasts a day Dec 23 00:14:20 anyways ill be back later to whine some more Dec 23 00:14:52 * SpeedEvil is annoyed he's broken another laptop. Dec 23 00:15:03 dropped while open, fractured case. Dec 23 00:17:40 SpeedEvil: next time, get a mac :) Dec 23 00:18:06 they're drop-proof? Dec 23 00:18:16 dunno Dec 23 00:19:00 I'll be repairing this one, with the help of ebay. Dec 23 00:19:06 If I can't get warranty work done free. Dec 23 00:19:26 Bought from ebay. Dec 23 00:19:35 GAN900: ping l10n Dec 23 00:19:42 * timeless_mbp looks for a brit Dec 23 00:20:24 why does that leave me thingking what you'll get when you cross a penguin and a lion Dec 23 00:20:32 thinking even Dec 23 00:20:40 sp3000: so, the clock backup scripts rock Dec 23 00:20:49 the .conf file is a "settings" thing Dec 23 00:20:50 they rock the clock? Dec 23 00:20:59 and the .sh file is a "comm_and_cal" thing Dec 23 00:21:05 so if you only backup one or the other Dec 23 00:21:09 say goodbye to your alarms Dec 23 00:21:15 timeless? Dec 23 00:21:23 * SpeedEvil is from Scotland. Dec 23 00:21:24 SpeedEvil: yes? Dec 23 00:21:29 oh, that might do Dec 23 00:21:57 clever Dec 23 00:22:25 well, it saves on cpu cycles for the backup :) Dec 23 00:22:38 * sp3000 thinks he knows what you get when you cross a lion, preiod Dec 23 00:22:49 s/prei/peri/ Dec 23 00:22:53 and that Dec 23 00:24:27 so I think the correct answer must be that when you cross a lion and a penguin, what you get is -- a head start Dec 23 00:28:17 on builder: Dec 23 00:28:19 Failed to fetch http://repository.maemo.org/dists/fremantle/sdk/Release.gpg Could not connect to repository.maemo.org:80 (195.54.111.99). - connect (111 Connection refused) Dec 23 00:29:38 Looks like its down Dec 23 00:29:40 D: Dec 23 00:30:02 MIRRORS! Dec 23 00:30:25 i can't believe there are zero responses to my mirror thread i started in t.m.o community. Seems like a really basic thing to do. Dec 23 00:31:52 night Dec 23 00:33:21 help Dec 23 00:33:44 plonk Dec 23 00:34:02 application manager been giving operation error all day yesterday Dec 23 00:34:05 still doing it now Dec 23 00:34:20 sp3000: maybe i'm wrong Dec 23 00:34:27 was told it's something to do with extras-testing being down Dec 23 00:34:36 ugh Dec 23 00:34:41 i am installing the xp services for unix Dec 23 00:34:44 just for nfs support in xp :) Dec 23 00:34:58 samba goes like way too slow over the tethered vpn Dec 23 00:35:32 VDVsx: the solution was to clear out /var/lib/apt/lists Dec 23 00:35:49 then mkdir -p /var/lib/apt/lists/partial Dec 23 00:35:53 then apt-get update Dec 23 00:36:02 something went wrong with apt i guess Dec 23 00:36:12 thought it was up to date but wasn't actually Dec 23 00:36:24 sp3000: ok, i'm wrong Dec 23 00:36:28 thought you'd like to know in case anyone else complains about it too :) Dec 23 00:36:50 the alarms are exclusively in the calendar set Dec 23 00:36:57 and are covered by 'alarmd.conf' not 'clockd.conf' Dec 23 00:37:01 * timeless_mbp sighs Dec 23 00:37:05 * timeless_mbp goes to fix a string Dec 23 00:37:08 superdump, well, you're supposed to use the app manager not apt-get :p Dec 23 00:37:42 superdump, I also had problems with the cache, but can't reproduce them in order to report a bug Dec 23 00:38:44 of course, but it's probably some corner case in apt that is unusual and has happened to be triggered Dec 23 00:39:30 feature suggestion for t.m.o: ignore posts and threads from members j who joined after any particular date, with a positive list for exceptions Dec 23 00:40:17 pupnik: or you could be like me and say "what's that?" Dec 23 00:40:22 and ignore anyone who answers :) Dec 23 00:40:28 but yeah, probably a good idea Dec 23 00:40:56 not fully serious :) Dec 23 00:41:01 just fun to imagine Dec 23 00:42:31 pupnik, are you sure you cant write a greasemonkey script for that? the posts all have the "member since ..." thingy Dec 23 00:43:38 mikhas: i'd imagine it's doable, he's probably too lazy to Dec 23 00:43:41 i know i would be Dec 23 00:44:06 they could be nice and add some html classes so that one could use css instead :) Dec 23 00:44:06 tss time.. Dec 23 00:48:08 damnit Dec 23 00:48:14 xp home doesn't let you install services for unix Dec 23 00:48:18 what a bunch of crap :) Dec 23 00:49:08 SFU is pretty crappy anyway Dec 23 00:51:36 fnordianslippers: yeah but it's teh only way to use nfs embedded into xp isn't it? Dec 23 00:51:41 or is there something else i can use? Dec 23 00:53:01 liek some cygwin crap? Dec 23 00:53:17 blah. it's ok. i found a hack to install it heh Dec 23 00:53:43 have to download some sdk crap and edit stuff in order to get it installed Dec 23 00:54:13 ms has the sdk split into like 10 cabs instead of one install app :) awesome Dec 23 00:55:14 Macer: multiple cabs are useful at times Dec 23 00:55:23 just like multiple .deb's are Dec 23 00:55:35 Macer, yep, i guess. you putting an nfs server on xp? i found setting up the accounts a real PITA Dec 23 01:07:01 fnordianslippers: it isn't that bad Dec 23 01:07:07 the biggest problem is just setting up the maps Dec 23 01:07:16 once you are done with that its' pretty straight forward Dec 23 01:07:52 only problem is that now i have to install something just to get the sfu stuff to install in xp home.. know what. screw that. i will just install debian or something on the laptop when i get home as long as it can connnect to an adhoc network with the wifi connection Dec 23 01:08:18 then connect to the vpn using debian heh.. if you can even connect to pptp vpn servers with debian. i've never tried it Dec 23 01:09:27 if that doesn't work i will just install win7 on this thing if i can.. not sure how well win7 runs on aspire1 Dec 23 01:09:44 time to ditch xp heh Dec 23 01:10:59 its always a good time for that :) Dec 23 01:12:10 you could try crumchbang. it is great on my Eee 901 Dec 23 01:12:40 s/crumchbang/crunchbang Dec 23 01:12:44 doh Dec 23 01:13:19 one day I'll get that right Dec 23 01:14:59 s/crumchbang/crunchbang/ Dec 23 01:15:04 aargh Dec 23 01:16:05 blah ;) i will just go ahead and install win7 on it.. actually i might try debian first Dec 23 01:16:17 but ti's kind of important that the adhoc wifi works which is usually a problem with linux wifi drivers Dec 23 01:16:37 like 90% of which use ndiswrapper or some crazy crap since wifi manufacturers are asses :) Dec 23 01:18:10 only ever tried it on my mac. have used bt pan instead usually Dec 23 01:18:30 fnordianslippers: i should try to figure out the bt stuff with the G1 Dec 23 01:18:45 never could get it to work. plus i don't think the aspire1 build in bt Dec 23 01:18:53 my mb does but i usually don't carry that thing around much Dec 23 01:19:01 the n800 didn't play well with adhoc. Dec 23 01:19:40 * fnordianslippers carries a mbpro 17", eee901 and n900 now Dec 23 01:22:17 Hey... so maemo is open and that which is handy... does this mean there is a way I can make my own firmware image that's exactly like the current one but with a bigger rootfs partitioned? Dec 23 01:22:22 i need to get a mini display port to vga adapter for my macbook Dec 23 01:22:30 wtf apple.. couldn't just put a damn vga port on the mb? :) Dec 23 01:22:31 heh Dec 23 01:22:42 i was just going to use it as a desktop .. i hardly ever lug that heavy ass thing around anymore Dec 23 01:22:55 i got it like a year ago and after using the aspire 1 realized how much of a pain it is to lug it around Dec 23 01:23:00 * ml-maemo punches vim Dec 23 01:23:43 u should try a 17". with the dvi output hooked up to hdmi on my 42" hdtv its pretty cool. Dec 23 01:24:42 anyone figured out how to get vim to properly respond to the arrow and enter keys? Dec 23 01:25:35 use vi instead? Dec 23 01:26:38 Macer: if they atleast could have put a real displayport and not invent a new port Dec 23 01:27:03 lantizia: rootfs is on a 256M device - so not that way Dec 23 01:27:18 lantizia: and maemo is not open - solely - it has closed components Dec 23 01:27:32 ali1234: the busybox vi is worse Dec 23 01:27:33 I've heard there is not 2 devices... there's 1 Dec 23 01:27:41 and 256mb is just a partition Dec 23 01:28:00 ml-maemo: it works for me? Dec 23 01:28:08 lantizia: no, it's not. Dec 23 01:28:17 lantizia: there is a seperate chip with the rootfs on Dec 23 01:28:25 SpeedEvil: how big is the chip? Dec 23 01:28:30 256M Dec 23 01:28:36 so where is swap and /home ? Dec 23 01:28:48 on the 32g mmc Dec 23 01:28:57 as is mydocs? Dec 23 01:29:03 yes Dec 23 01:29:07 all but / Dec 23 01:29:27 ok can I make a new mmc image that has /home bigger than 2gb? Dec 23 01:29:40 a more even split between /home and mydocs Dec 23 01:29:40 there we go. even got syntax highlightimg going Dec 23 01:29:48 yes. Dec 23 01:29:57 do you know how I can go about that? Dec 23 01:30:30 I have my /usr on /home/usr (using a bind mount on startup - that works brilliantly by the way)... but I'm filling up /home now lol Dec 23 01:30:46 I told you, repartition :p Dec 23 01:30:55 I don't want to do it your way Dec 23 01:31:00 Your way leaves the USB port unusable Dec 23 01:31:02 You already did it my way, lol! Dec 23 01:31:09 that's just the other part of my way Dec 23 01:31:26 but in your defense, I haven't did a bind mount yet but I have thought about it. Dec 23 01:31:35 SpeedEvil: is there a tool for creating the eemmc images? Dec 23 01:31:42 the easiest way is to make a loopback image in mydocs and mount that on /usr instead Dec 23 01:31:53 T7g: you didn't think of it first, earlier in that afternoon I had proposed it Dec 23 01:32:02 I've been using bind mounts for years Dec 23 01:32:12 but back on topic... a new eemmc image? Dec 23 01:32:21 As far as I know you're out of luck on that Dec 23 01:32:43 Jebba did link me to something though that was an open source flasher and I read something about it taking apart the images maybe? Dec 23 01:32:44 i think the flasher tool can pack/unpack images Dec 23 01:32:45 ali1234: loop backs are even slower Dec 23 01:32:58 yeah well you can't have everything Dec 23 01:33:18 loopbacks actually aren't that much slower Dec 23 01:33:21 if I mount the eemmc on a PC... can't I just use cfdisk on it and rearrange it?> Dec 23 01:33:32 not lant, because you can't unmount /home while the device is on Dec 23 01:33:36 no because it only exports mydocs partition, not home Dec 23 01:33:49 grr Dec 23 01:33:58 take the eemmc out? lol Dec 23 01:34:07 listen, you can connect it via usb lant- with the patition switch Dec 23 01:34:17 but you're doublemounting a live filesystem, which works but not _reliably_ Dec 23 01:34:35 I already know that and thats exactly why I don't want to do it Dec 23 01:34:53 you probably can unmount home actually, if you stop all the gui without triggering a reboot Dec 23 01:34:58 Well then to answer your question, no, you can't take the emmc out, you'd have to edit the reflasher image Dec 23 01:35:07 also you can mount it read only which should be safe Dec 23 01:35:13 SpeedEvil: you have said it _is_ possible to make another eemmc image thats rearranged differently Dec 23 01:35:24 so I'm guessing you've got at least a tip on where to start Dec 23 01:36:14 the tip is the flasher program Dec 23 01:36:32 we think the closed or open source ones might be able to unpack and then repack an image for you Dec 23 01:36:34 the flasher program does whatever the instructions in the image file is Dec 23 01:36:58 ./flasher-3.5 -F RX-51_2009SE_1.2009.41-1.VANILLA_PR_EMMC_MR0_ARM.bin -u Dec 23 01:37:04 unpacks the image Dec 23 01:37:04 and the image file is nothing more than 3 partitions? Dec 23 01:37:13 ext2, ext2, swap perhaps? Dec 23 01:38:46 try it? :P Dec 23 01:39:18 then you can enlighten us as well, I was wondering myself. Dec 23 01:39:28 the image file is weird Dec 23 01:39:43 once extracted, i can loop mount it, but it is all mess up Dec 23 01:39:43 ok downloading the emmc image file Dec 23 01:40:03 now... off my original (from factory) emmc I know I need to rescue map stuff... is there anything else? Dec 23 01:40:08 so it probably contains multiple partitions Dec 23 01:41:42 is there anyway the 256mb can just be used at /boot ? Dec 23 01:41:46 and put / on the emmc? Dec 23 01:42:02 lantizia: all this stuff is possible Dec 23 01:42:22 ok any clues where the bloody boot loader is? Dec 23 01:42:42 probably on the first page of nand? Dec 23 01:42:59 so nothing with a nice config file then? lol Dec 23 01:43:08 i doubt it Dec 23 01:43:25 anyone succeeded in any of this? Dec 23 01:43:41 dont think so Dec 23 01:44:03 lets say 15gb for / (including /home) then the rest is MyDocs and swap Dec 23 01:44:17 then the special 256mb chip is just for booting the kernel Dec 23 01:44:25 perfect idea no?! :D Dec 23 01:44:28 i should point out that all this has been done on the n800 etc Dec 23 01:44:37 right so it's only a matter of time? Dec 23 01:44:38 there it is entirely possible to move root onto the mmc card Dec 23 01:44:52 yes, it's a matter of how much time and effort you're willing to put into doing it Dec 23 01:44:55 It's just waiting for a group of people or a single person that knows how to do it and gets it setup. Dec 23 01:45:09 and then everyone will have the reflasher image for it most likely. Dec 23 01:45:25 the sad thing is... theres less space for apps on this thing than on my E51 Dec 23 01:45:50 Well people have only been getting shipped units for about a month now Dec 23 01:46:02 It takes a while to hit the ground running on new devices. Dec 23 01:46:38 why does building everythign complain about missing quilt - i forgot what i did to fix that Dec 23 01:46:52 install quilt? Dec 23 01:47:39 doesn't seem to be avail Dec 23 01:47:56 ali1234: I got the image mounted Dec 23 01:48:02 wtf there it is Dec 23 01:48:03 it's in the sdk Dec 23 01:48:05 ali1234: all I see is the MyDocs part Dec 23 01:48:11 once extracted, i can loop mount it, but it is all mess up Dec 23 01:48:21 lantizia: yes, do you see the example videos? because i don't Dec 23 01:48:29 no they're not there Dec 23 01:48:32 exactly Dec 23 01:48:34 not supposed to be tho Dec 23 01:48:44 they're there after you flash it onto the device Dec 23 01:48:46 this is a developers vanilla emmc... vids didn't exist Dec 23 01:48:55 neither do the maps that come with your n900 Dec 23 01:49:00 why is is 200 odd mb then? Dec 23 01:49:08 because most of it is empty Dec 23 01:49:14 how about just figuring out what the hell chooses to export mmcblk0p1 and see if that's modifyable? Dec 23 01:49:43 well, here's the thing. i have flashed that image, and i have all the demo files Dec 23 01:49:45 That way you do repartition trick and everything works. That's really the only thing stopping the trick from working. Dec 23 01:49:53 the flasher flashes in stages I think Dec 23 01:50:08 I think there is a seperate image for the video files Dec 23 01:51:59 lantizia@ares ~/Desktop $ file mmc Dec 23 01:51:59 mmc: x86 boot sector, mkdosfs boot message display Dec 23 01:52:25 it's an arm machine though... Dec 23 01:52:51 is anyone having any trouble with Nokia Messaging at the moment on their N900? Dec 23 01:53:01 1. file isn't foolproof Dec 23 01:53:10 2. it's a usb disk, somebody might try to boot from it Dec 23 01:53:16 hi o/ Dec 23 01:53:26 ali1234: your size comes from that many user guides Dec 23 01:53:41 I don't think the flasher has extracted nothing more than MyDocs... nothing else Dec 23 01:53:46 lantizia: user guides which are not visible when the image is loop mounted Dec 23 01:53:50 there aren't multiple partitions in the mmc file Dec 23 01:54:00 yeah, it looks that way Dec 23 01:54:02 ali1234: yes they are... they're in .documents Dec 23 01:54:24 so they are Dec 23 01:54:31 the videos are there too Dec 23 01:54:45 in .videos Dec 23 01:55:01 227M of files Dec 23 01:55:05 are there a french chan please ? Dec 23 01:55:10 so the flasher isn't showing us everything when extracting Dec 23 01:55:17 unfortunately not that I know of, disco_stu Dec 23 01:55:25 or the vanilla emmc doesn't come with the instructions for swap or /home Dec 23 01:55:26 I mean, Disease Dec 23 01:55:35 but then... /home is empty and so is swap Dec 23 01:55:47 mmc = 246950912 bytes Dec 23 01:56:06 image = 246951288 Dec 23 01:56:22 there are #maemo-fr but it is empty :/ Dec 23 01:56:30 that's only 376 bytes of header Dec 23 01:56:46 so i think the mmc image just doesn't contain the other partitions Dec 23 01:56:50 I doubt the instructions on the partitioning of the emmc is in there Dec 23 01:56:59 I think it must be hard coded into the flasher Dec 23 01:57:11 probably Dec 23 01:57:11 I kinda doubt that... Dec 23 01:57:18 or maybe it doesn't actually repartition anything Dec 23 01:57:30 maybe it just writes onto the partitions as they are Dec 23 01:57:45 so if I make a file in /home then flashing this will mean it stays there? Dec 23 01:57:56 no, it gets wiped Dec 23 01:57:59 no that makes no sense... /home/opt is there Dec 23 01:58:05 but i'm not sure if it gets wiped when you flash rootfs or mmc Dec 23 01:58:05 and it gets wiped with a vanilla emmc flash Dec 23 01:58:09 emmc Dec 23 01:58:18 a rootfs flash keeps /home/opt Dec 23 01:58:56 it should keep all of home though... Dec 23 01:59:08 yes exactly Dec 23 01:59:09 because /home is it's own partition Dec 23 01:59:14 I'm using /home/opt as an example Dec 23 01:59:44 but nothing in /home is kept? Dec 23 01:59:49 or /home/user? Dec 23 01:59:51 yes it is kept Dec 23 01:59:53 I know you've reflashed quite a bit Dec 23 02:00:04 when rootfs is flashed /home isn't touched Dec 23 02:00:04 Okay, then yeah, the flasher isn't touching the partition table in theory Dec 23 02:00:13 I think that's why the system autogenerates it's own fstab Dec 23 02:00:14 your settings, conversations, software in /home/opt all remains Dec 23 02:00:42 so if the vanilla emmc doesn't have a partition table... or instructions on how to format the other "zones"... and the rootfs flash isn't doing it Dec 23 02:00:49 then it must be hard wired into flasher-3.5 Dec 23 02:00:53 well, no, it can still touch the table i guess but not touching anything past what it is supposed to flash Dec 23 02:01:14 it's either built into the flasher, or built into the bootloader parts that talk to the flasher Dec 23 02:01:15 I really doubt it's hard wired, I think it's how it flashes Dec 23 02:02:22 well, if you're feeling bored, you can sniff the usb traffic and see how it works Dec 23 02:02:49 or.... get maemo 5 to export the entire emmc device... not just one partition Dec 23 02:02:55 then use a PC to dig around Dec 23 02:02:56 or extract a copy of the bootloader and disassemble it Dec 23 02:03:10 I'm sure maemo won't have too much of a seisure without /home lol Dec 23 02:03:39 if you can get access to the real onboard MMC device, then you can repartition it normally! Dec 23 02:03:40 or you can install fdisk etc on the phone, and repartition it from there Dec 23 02:03:46 aha! even better Dec 23 02:04:37 cfdisk is in the repo's ? Dec 23 02:04:38 :) Dec 23 02:04:41 -? Dec 23 02:05:12 sfdisk is pre-installed man Dec 23 02:05:19 how is cfdisk going to help? Dec 23 02:05:52 cfdisk doesn't show any partitions on the 32gb Dec 23 02:06:00 sfdisk then Dec 23 02:06:18 sfdisk moans its in use Dec 23 02:06:18 it uses sfdisk to generate the fstab in /etc/rcS-late I think. Dec 23 02:06:29 you just type sfdisk Dec 23 02:06:29 at least cfdisk shows me whats there Dec 23 02:06:57 http://pastebin.com/m27dc1ad6 Dec 23 02:07:02 wait theres a force flag Dec 23 02:07:02 you're simply not using it right, that's all. I used sfdisk to modify the partition table of my entirely live n900 Dec 23 02:07:13 he's got it Dec 23 02:07:40 so MyDocs is at the start! Dec 23 02:07:48 yes Dec 23 02:07:56 hmmm Dec 23 02:08:12 perhaps it's at the end of that mmc file after all Dec 23 02:08:58 he did the part switch Dec 23 02:09:05 well wait, no :p Dec 23 02:09:08 ok when I... tail mmc Dec 23 02:09:14 �������home/opt/0000755000000000000000000000000011263315216007476 5ustar Dec 23 02:09:25 a definite reference to /home/opt there Dec 23 02:09:35 which proves its more than just MyDocs in that file Dec 23 02:09:49 :D Dec 23 02:10:08 are we agreed? Dec 23 02:10:25 yeah possible, you just need to clip that loopback image then Dec 23 02:10:32 how big is it btw? Dec 23 02:10:47 246950912 Dec 23 02:11:09 i think Nokia Messaging is dead Dec 23 02:12:16 when you mount the loopback how big does df -h say it is? Dec 23 02:12:41 4.1G Dec 23 02:13:02 that's totally wrong though Dec 23 02:13:09 yeah a wacky number Dec 23 02:13:11 T7g: why? Dec 23 02:13:52 luke-jr_, you're saying it's just a sparse file? shouldn't it know how big it can get? Dec 23 02:14:13 _-\"kj Dec 23 02:14:14 lantizia: you really don't want to treat MMC as a straight out block device like that Dec 23 02:14:17 I can agree that yes, it could be a sparse file but the partition table should still tell it the extents of the disk even if it's not written Dec 23 02:14:17 oops Dec 23 02:14:30 becaaaause? Dec 23 02:14:51 make[1]: *** No rule to make target `../../GNU.TXT', needed by `all-am'. Stop. Dec 23 02:14:54 well for one the 256mb thing could be it'w own chip. Dec 23 02:14:54 T7g: I have no idea what file you're talking about, but content size can very well be larger than image size Dec 23 02:15:03 T7g: it is Dec 23 02:15:06 luke-jr_, we're speaking of an unpacked flasher image Dec 23 02:15:22 luke-jr_: if you don't know what file we are working on that your advice isn't likely to be helpful Dec 23 02:15:28 lantizia: because NAND goes bad quickly and thus generally needs some kind of wear levelling on top of it Dec 23 02:15:30 wahaa it compiles, it compiles, it compiles Dec 23 02:15:37 luke-jr_: this isn't NAND Dec 23 02:15:57 [20:03:39] if you can get access to the real onboard MMC device, then you can repartition it normally! Dec 23 02:16:02 that's what my response was to Dec 23 02:16:07 oh Dec 23 02:16:11 oops, MMC not NAND Dec 23 02:16:13 yes, that's true Dec 23 02:16:29 lets not argue semantics guys, it's slows down the process :p Dec 23 02:16:45 look everyone.... this unpacked mmc file is _clearly_ the MyDocs partition... and a slither of code at the bottom defines the other 2 partitions Dec 23 02:16:52 any ideas how we can recode it? Dec 23 02:17:32 "file" claims it's of type... x86 boot sector, mkdosfs boot message display Dec 23 02:17:32 beats me Dec 23 02:17:36 what handles those files Dec 23 02:17:47 an x86 bios Dec 23 02:18:02 well it's just a block device then basically Dec 23 02:18:04 file is only seeing the fat partition Dec 23 02:18:15 just like mount is only seeing a fat partition Dec 23 02:18:51 well it's 2am and I need sleep Dec 23 02:18:55 will pick up this another time Dec 23 02:18:58 interesting stuff tho :D Dec 23 02:19:17 night night folks! thanks for everyones input Dec 23 02:24:55 So I take it noone is doing a super detailed battery widget? I was thinking with all the info exported over dbus it wouldn't be hard to make a very indepth battery widget. Perhaps make it update every thirty minutes or so, keep running average on power used per hour, power per hour since turned on, etc. Dec 23 02:31:36 Does the n900 do python widgets and are there any examples of a python widget that stands out in anyone's mind? Dec 23 02:32:48 um Dec 23 02:33:18 if anyone sees lantizia... "file"s "x86 boot sector" means there's a partition table Dec 23 02:33:31 so it's an image of /dev/sda (for example), not /dev/sda1 Dec 23 02:33:44 to loop-mount it, he needs -o offset=some-magic-offset Dec 23 02:34:28 We'll let him know, perhaps ali will give it a shot since he is probably readin it Dec 23 02:35:47 T7g: it's possible to do a python widget, I don't recall any examples though Dec 23 02:36:14 T7g: a few weeks back screwing around, I had a python widget that was just a gtk button... Dec 23 02:36:34 that imported pyside and launched a QWebView Dec 23 02:36:53 I was quite surprised that it worked at all Dec 23 02:37:22 I just want to do a tiny amount of text display. I'm thinking a battery widget could help a lot of n900 users that suffer the wifi bug or from retarded cpu hog apps/widgets. Dec 23 02:39:05 I'm kinda ocd and I've been paying attention to the battery a lot lately and I think if people were more aware of how many mAh they draw an hour or how many mV they lose that they might have a better idea of what is killing their battery. Dec 23 02:39:32 indeed, there is a MBR and partition table, but it is all zeroed Dec 23 02:39:34 keep records of peak highs, peak lows, could really help us understand the n900 power consumption situation a lot better. Dec 23 02:39:41 so i dunno Dec 23 02:40:23 I think there is a reason sfdisk autogenerates /etc/fstab in /etc/event.d/rcS-late Dec 23 02:40:34 That is not normal, I think they did it because they didn't want the partition table modifiable Dec 23 02:40:54 no, because the emmc *on disk* has a valid partition table Dec 23 02:41:54 so, connect via usb and look at mydocs then Dec 23 02:41:57 It's supposedly the first one Dec 23 02:42:04 ? Dec 23 02:42:10 the partition table isn't inside the partition Dec 23 02:42:13 that would make no sense Dec 23 02:42:15 oh yeah Dec 23 02:42:24 shit sorry, I started drinking when we were talking with lant Dec 23 02:42:45 anyway, the best way to look is on the device, over ssh Dec 23 02:43:30 i think the fact that the mmc fat filesystem looks like 4gb even though it is only 200mb is an indication that some trickery is going on Dec 23 02:43:40 I think everyone could roll with switching mmcblk0p1 and mmcblk0p2 if we could get usb to mount mmcblk0p2 instead of 1 Dec 23 02:43:41 probably the flasher computers the partition table on the fly Dec 23 02:44:01 i dont see why you would even want to do that? Dec 23 02:44:11 you want to make mydocs 2gb and home 29 gb? Dec 23 02:44:19 yep! Dec 23 02:44:21 that's just insane Dec 23 02:44:21 I already have! Dec 23 02:44:28 Not for people that run linux Dec 23 02:44:54 Check this man, no computer I have any relation to or go near on a daily basis is Windows anymore. I don't need vfat Dec 23 02:45:13 Even my parents are forced to use Gentoo Dec 23 02:45:50 i don't see how that is even useful Dec 23 02:46:16 ext3 journalling, even though it might hose the flash sooner Dec 23 02:46:28 ext3 journalling = fail Dec 23 02:47:45 I'm just waiting for someone smarter than myself to solve this Dec 23 02:48:00 I don't mind helping, but I know lant is not going to fix this problem for us. Dec 23 02:48:13 i don't know what you're trying to achieve Dec 23 02:48:37 do you know how aggravating it is to go do an ln -s /xxx yyy and get Operation Not Permitted? Dec 23 02:48:46 You don't understand, this does not typically happen to me. Dec 23 02:49:27 you can make all the symlinks you want on /home Dec 23 02:49:55 It's not like any of us can understand how the other likes to setup their distro Dec 23 02:50:01 Lets just say, it's been a problem Dec 23 02:50:16 You have an easy solution to get to /home from the apps? Dec 23 02:50:19 I haven't found one tbh? Dec 23 02:50:40 I just mount my microsd at /msd and then have a link in it pointing to /home/user Dec 23 02:50:52 because the UI included is such a pain in the ass Dec 23 02:51:00 I don't want to store shit in . named folders Dec 23 02:51:04 the only thing you could conceivably want to link into /home is stuff in MyDocs anyway Dec 23 02:51:19 I just don't use mydocs at all Dec 23 02:51:26 and you won't fix the .files without rewriting the whole GUI Dec 23 02:51:26 Literally, it's for the camera, that's it Dec 23 02:51:53 so link the DCIM folder somewhere in /home/user - problem solved Dec 23 02:52:16 no, the camera app insists on having a vfat partition for some reason Dec 23 02:52:22 it won't write to ext3 :p Dec 23 02:52:25 yes Dec 23 02:52:35 so, don't f*ck with the partitions then Dec 23 02:52:45 "for some reason" XD Dec 23 02:52:48 just link everything into /home/user with symlinks Dec 23 02:52:48 too late! Dec 23 02:53:13 These are just steps towards us not using the standard layout nokia gave us Dec 23 02:53:27 This is exactly what Lant wants to do, but he doesn't want to give up usb disk mode. Dec 23 02:53:52 no, lant wants to resize the existing partitions, without changing the order Dec 23 02:53:53 I have wifi, I don't give two shits so for me repartitioning isn't bad Dec 23 02:54:06 which is a much more sensible goal Dec 23 02:54:29 I already changed my partitions, and it works fine Dec 23 02:54:32 Don't worry about me Dec 23 02:55:06 The way I did it was also easy enough for any person to do. Dec 23 02:55:23 People don't necessarily want their media on the device because they can hotswap sdhcs Dec 23 02:55:55 I'd rather have my shit on hotswap sdhc, I can carry about fifty microsds in my pocket if need be Dec 23 02:56:44 but, one problem I have noticed (one I have not had at all) is people filling up their filesystems installing all sorts of stuff Dec 23 02:56:51 actually i just realise something Dec 23 02:56:52 some of it is related to the icon cache bug of course Dec 23 02:57:07 the order of the partitions in the table does not have to reflect the order on disk Dec 23 02:57:31 so you can swap the partitions around, without actually repartitioning, and retain the existing device node asignments Dec 23 02:57:48 you'll probably have to hex edit the partition table though Dec 23 02:58:06 then everything should work, including usb storage Dec 23 02:58:50 that would be awesome man Dec 23 02:58:58 and you could solve everyone's problems in a quick couple of steps Dec 23 02:59:07 sfdisk? Dec 23 02:59:10 no, it would only solve your problem Dec 23 02:59:26 for most people, having only 2gb for mp3, videos, and pictures woul totally suck Dec 23 02:59:38 everyone could make my problem their problem and we could solve it together ali =) Dec 23 02:59:45 that's the thing sir Dec 23 02:59:56 I keep all my music and videos on /msd which is the mounted microsd card! **** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Dec 23 02:59:57 2009