**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Feb 05 02:59:56 2010 Feb 05 03:00:56 bat-level at 50% after 1h of UMTS and ~10h of WLAN, with irc and SIP and some GPS activity Feb 05 03:04:44 i think that's good enough Feb 05 03:05:21 i didn't experience battery life yet Feb 05 03:17:33 yeah not exactly great but also not that bad Feb 05 03:18:38 3g is a battery rapist Feb 05 03:18:41 If I build with EXTRAVERSION=omap1-scribble1 then the modules should go in /lib/modules/2.6.28-omap1-scribble1....right? Feb 05 03:18:43 I wish it was possible to 'hot swap' bats. Feb 05 03:18:49 Or at least suspend-disk to work Feb 05 03:19:21 there was an external battery pack for the N810 Feb 05 03:19:31 but the N900 now uses micro-usb to charge or ? Feb 05 03:19:42 LinuxCode: yes Feb 05 03:19:57 a teeny stepup converter is easy though. Feb 05 03:20:05 as its an agreed standard now, ou should see external batteries soon Feb 05 03:20:16 dealextreme.com has many Feb 05 03:20:17 if there arent ones already Feb 05 03:20:23 eheh Feb 05 03:20:43 The quality may vary of course. Feb 05 03:20:46 does the N900 die when you put the cable and in and take the battery out ? Feb 05 03:20:58 -and Feb 05 03:21:20 It does not die - but it turns off Feb 05 03:21:30 ;-| Feb 05 03:22:04 http://www.dealextreme.com/search.dx/search.nokia :) Feb 05 03:22:16 I suspect genuine may mean something different in china though Feb 05 03:22:57 my n810 also goes off Feb 05 03:23:18 they dont know the meaning of genuine Feb 05 03:26:37 is the only way to enable rd mode to flash using --enable-rd-mode flag? Feb 05 03:27:52 powering via USB isn't optimized for efficiency Feb 05 03:28:11 means you burn 50% of energy of the external bat Feb 05 03:28:36 It's not a SMPS? Feb 05 03:28:46 do i have to reflash my n900 to enable rd mode? Feb 05 03:29:30 Why do you want to? Feb 05 03:30:02 to use usb networking Feb 05 03:30:47 http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_USB_networking Feb 05 03:31:03 that's exactly what i was reading Feb 05 03:31:30 Don't see where it mentions rd Feb 05 03:32:01 first command in this howto is sudo gainroot, and it gives Enable RD mode if you want to break your device. Feb 05 03:32:09 ~rootsh Feb 05 03:32:10 well, rootsh is an easy way to get root and it's found here: http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/rootsh/, or http://maemo.org/downloads/product/Maemo5/rootsh/ Feb 05 03:32:36 do you have rd mode enabled? Feb 05 03:32:40 no Feb 05 03:32:43 you don't need to Feb 05 03:32:48 install rooths Feb 05 03:34:10 i'm usually the kind of person that tweaks a lot of things, i hope i won't find that i needed rd mode once my maemo is all configured Feb 05 03:35:15 I'm not aware of anything you actually need it for Feb 05 03:35:46 You can - for example - change the window manager to mwm - without it. Feb 05 03:36:39 if i need rootsh to use usb networking but it's not installed by default, that means a wifi network is necessary to start with a n900 Feb 05 03:37:06 or gsm Feb 05 03:37:14 people without a wireless router must be annoyed by this Feb 05 03:37:33 hey guys, do you know is B-man is in here? Feb 05 03:37:37 Bman 17? Feb 05 03:37:45 Or you can download the rootsh file, and copy it to mass sotrage Feb 05 03:38:25 There are people without a wireless router? Feb 05 03:38:26 Who knew? Feb 05 03:38:34 lol Feb 05 03:38:59 That those people would have any intersection with the people who will pay $500 for a phone... Feb 05 03:39:03 amazing, frankly! Feb 05 03:41:07 i just think all these little steps to get usb networking are so lame. of course everyone will need rootsh just install it by default it's ridiculous Feb 05 03:45:06 actually it's ridiculous USB-networking needs rootsh Feb 05 03:50:45 USB networking is a waste of time. Feb 05 03:51:01 you only use wifi? Feb 05 03:51:31 my n900 is plugged most of the time anyway Feb 05 03:51:42 better use usb Feb 05 03:51:57 * luke-jr only uses wifi, except when playing with kernel stuff Feb 05 03:52:57 USB charging from bus power sucks Feb 05 03:53:46 why is plugging to wall socket better? Feb 05 03:54:03 <.< Feb 05 03:54:03 More than twice the amperage. Feb 05 03:54:13 500mA can't even charge the N900 under load. Feb 05 03:54:13 N810 has an independent power source anyhow Feb 05 03:54:35 some kind of palm pre touchtone would be nice Feb 05 03:54:52 I hear Google's next phone will have a keyboard <.< Feb 05 03:55:00 at home i only use wifi to split my internet bill with my neihbor Feb 05 03:55:44 though I'm currently pondering if it might make more sense to find a bluetooth kb I can make into a clamshell case, and put a kb-less phone in that Feb 05 03:55:55 uhsf: don't Canadian ISPs prohibit that? Feb 05 03:56:19 yes just don't tell them Feb 05 03:57:00 -.- Feb 05 03:58:03 there is nothign wrong with barowign the nabers wifi Feb 05 03:58:53 just be sure to put it back when your done ;-) Feb 05 03:59:01 what are you going to do at your job, when it's policy of your company not to have wifi on their network? Feb 05 04:00:09 hook up wifi outside the network? Feb 05 04:00:22 and for "it's not charging on load with 500mA" - o.O so that load is of a kind that sucks battery to flat in ~2h Feb 05 04:00:42 shamus: err, what? Feb 05 04:00:57 err brain fart Feb 05 04:01:41 hey bman Feb 05 04:04:06 hello Dnab55 :) Feb 05 04:04:21 jump on #xceleo xD Feb 05 04:04:48 * DocScrutinizer notices quite a policy break from "users shouldn't have to worry about filesystem, so we cheat and show 'drives' and no homedir access' -- to "use rootsh if you need usb-networking" Feb 05 04:05:50 Quite strange, but i do not see ussdpad in repositories, where is it? Feb 05 04:06:15 -devel Feb 05 04:06:33 nah pad isn't in repo Feb 05 04:08:03 Arkenoi: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=493831&postcount=121 and http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=486843&postcount=101 Feb 05 04:08:42 Arkenoi: annoying but there's no clean package for a simple install Feb 05 04:18:27 do you use vnc or just ssh? Feb 05 04:19:14 oh wow Feb 05 04:19:24 * luke-jr just realized his Zaurus SL-C760 runs a newer kernel than his N810 <.< Feb 05 04:20:53 i'm looking for a convenient way to control my n900 with my keyboard/pointer. i use synergy between my workstation and notebook but there is no official port of synergy for the n900 Feb 05 04:21:47 Well Feb 05 04:21:48 vnc seems much heavier on ressources for the same purpose Feb 05 04:21:59 I use x2x on my desktop and I'm looking to use it on my n900 myself. Feb 05 04:22:14 I haevn't gotten around to see whether it's somehting to easily port yet though. Feb 05 04:22:19 ssh -X foo ? Feb 05 04:22:29 Actually, ssh -X doesn't Just Work Feb 05 04:22:35 but I haven't looked to see why yet. Feb 05 04:22:45 Too busy trying to build a kernel. Feb 05 04:22:46 Hehe Feb 05 04:22:53 ssh -x dosent work? Feb 05 04:23:08 Doesn't for me... apps started in X display on the phone. Feb 05 04:23:45 umm Feb 05 04:23:59 Yeah, I didn't say that right. Feb 05 04:24:07 X apps I start from the ssh session display on the phone. Feb 05 04:24:24 thats odd Feb 05 04:24:39 I'm probably doing something retarded... usually am. Feb 05 04:25:02 I think my big issue with my kernel came down to not running depmod on the new modules (?) Feb 05 04:25:22 I offer that up as proof of my retardedness. Feb 05 04:26:59 don't worry - others try to ping their wallwart charger for 30 minutes XP Feb 05 04:27:26 xd Feb 05 04:27:43 well those cables could use different color plastics anyway Feb 05 04:27:43 Oh man,... .. it's slow so I'll tell you how retarded I am. Feb 05 04:28:02 (Mine do have different colored plastics, incidentally, the USB on has a grey part) Feb 05 04:28:41 I was going to a important conference in another state and had to fly out in the morning, and didn't have a laptop so I ran out and bought one the night before at Fry's. Cheap. Feb 05 04:28:55 I went home and spent a couple hours installing linux on it and starting to get it configured... Feb 05 04:28:57 comparing them side by side and grabbing my torch I realize you're right Feb 05 04:29:06 When it just stopped booting. Feb 05 04:29:38 Well, I had to fly out, nothing I could do - so I handed it off to one of our sales guys and told him to return it to Fry's, get a new one, and meet me at the conference with it. Feb 05 04:30:16 He calls me from Fry's. The technician there says it works fine. Feb 05 04:30:24 Turns out it did work fine. I had never plugged it in. Feb 05 04:31:04 That was about five years ago and the guys at the office /still/ won't let me live it down. Feb 05 04:31:11 you mean they dont charg wirelessly ;-) Feb 05 04:43:43 hooray! I'm finally booting my own kernel. It's so difficult being retarded. Feb 05 04:48:04 ScribbleJ: congrats Feb 05 04:49:44 Now I just need to find the userspace iptables / ip tools Feb 05 04:50:43 huhu Feb 05 04:50:54 is MyDocs like my ~/ directory? Feb 05 04:51:27 what do I do about the fact that garage doesn't list maemo 5 as an option for tablet OS version? Feb 05 04:55:22 johnsu01, look for freemantle Feb 05 04:55:51 kamui__: only choices are OS200x Feb 05 04:56:10 and they stop at 8 Feb 05 04:56:16 lame sauce Feb 05 04:56:17 :) Feb 05 04:57:13 no wget? Feb 05 04:57:22 how to install wget? Feb 05 04:58:16 apt-get install wget ? Feb 05 04:58:30 err Feb 05 04:58:39 rootsh apt-get install wget ? Feb 05 04:58:51 isn't rootsh depreciated? Feb 05 04:59:08 why? Feb 05 04:59:21 no idea doc Feb 05 04:59:27 not all available packages are shown in app manager? Feb 05 04:59:29 thought you had to use either root, or sudo gainroot Feb 05 04:59:54 and sudo and rootsh don't work anymore (sudo without modification to sudoers) Feb 05 05:00:13 well, I always use 'root \r apt-foo doodle bla \r exit' Feb 05 05:00:30 looney tunes Feb 05 05:00:37 I would never type that on the N900 ;p Feb 05 05:00:58 kamui__: you might be right Feb 05 05:02:34 Has anyone compiled aptitude or libept on freemantle? Feb 05 05:02:44 dude, I just ran fennec full Feb 05 05:02:49 its much faster than the last RC Feb 05 05:02:55 it turns out all this time I thought I had the newest version Feb 05 05:03:04 but I had both the beta repo and the final Feb 05 05:03:10 what a botched update Feb 05 05:03:16 I blame myself Feb 05 05:05:20 uhsf: I've been tought you need shell to install apps you run in shell Feb 05 05:05:40 uhsf: so wget probably not listed in HAM Feb 05 05:06:47 though liq* apps install libliq foo, which in turn installs wget Feb 05 05:07:20 do i need libliq? Feb 05 05:08:12 thus liqtorch needs some tens of MB, to display an empty white screen. My desktop bookmark to 'about:blank" does the same with maybe 30 bytes :-P - and it's faster too Feb 05 05:09:02 liqtorch installs a whole framework of stuff iirc Feb 05 05:09:10 uhsf: I don't know if you need libliq. For sure not for wget Feb 05 05:11:42 yeah, i'm routinely impressed with the size/dependencies of some of the apps Feb 05 05:12:07 liqtorch tops them all Feb 05 05:12:42 why mention it Feb 05 05:12:49 how about the google latitude updater which requires 18.1mb Feb 05 05:13:34 requires two qt libraries, libqt4-webkit and libqt4-phonon Feb 05 05:13:46 pushes a bloated 6mb app up by 12mb Feb 05 05:13:48 Nokia-N900-51-1 is a pretty fugly hostname Feb 05 05:14:02 is it easy to change username and hostname? Feb 05 05:14:20 pupnik: just because I was going "wtf where went wget??" when I deinstalled liqtorch Feb 05 05:14:52 and uhsf was asking about wget Feb 05 05:15:47 what white screen does liqtorch do? Feb 05 05:15:55 so what I probably intended to say was "don't worry if wget is vanishing, that's just libliq" Feb 05 05:16:26 bright white light to guide thru the night ;-P Feb 05 05:16:47 i thought the nokia white screen with the two hands during boot is kinda gay Feb 05 05:19:51 yeah I need to replace that one by something more geeky eventually Feb 05 05:21:23 using maps eats a fair amt of battery Feb 05 05:22:46 yup Feb 05 05:23:12 esp if you're on UMTS Feb 05 05:23:42 which probably is the standard usecase Feb 05 05:24:42 going to 2G helps eh Feb 05 05:27:10 you did tests to actually compare? Feb 05 05:28:18 * DocScrutinizer just curious about how much of a difference it actually makes Feb 05 05:31:08 i really dont like any media player Feb 05 05:31:42 none pulls up a directory Feb 05 05:33:29 how to change ssh password? Feb 05 05:34:07 uhsf: passwd Feb 05 05:34:28 it's the same as user password? Feb 05 05:34:45 if you log in as user, then yes Feb 05 05:34:52 'cause passwd told me user password can't be changed Feb 05 05:35:03 login as root to change it then Feb 05 05:35:03 huh? Feb 05 05:35:13 i guess it needs rootsh Feb 05 05:35:36 when you installed the ssh server it shoudl have prompted you for the new password Feb 05 05:36:16 or is ssh included by defiult on the n900 Feb 05 05:36:42 shamus: i know but i think i mistyped with the tiny keyboard and now i can't find what was mistyped Feb 05 05:37:06 o.0 Feb 05 05:37:40 ah that not good Feb 05 05:37:45 uhsf: install rootsh \r sudo gainroot \r passwd Feb 05 05:38:00 Exactly. Feb 05 05:39:20 ssh install needs a password confirmation like the cli has Feb 05 05:39:50 yes the lack of a confirmation is anoying Feb 05 05:41:20 passwd seems to change the user password but not the ssh password Feb 05 05:41:26 bah gotta switch batteries Feb 05 05:42:35 uhsf: passwd changed password for 'root', to change password for user, type 'passwd user' Feb 05 05:46:01 ah, finally sshd to my n900 Feb 05 05:47:47 i guess my error was taking the shift for that other function shift or vice versa Feb 05 05:48:00 we should be able to ssh over bluetooth pairing Feb 05 05:48:11 who wants to work on that Feb 05 05:48:46 count me out for working on bluetooth for linux Feb 05 05:49:38 damn it mugen Feb 05 05:49:39 its february Feb 05 05:49:43 still no extended battery Feb 05 05:50:04 unless maybe if you get the sony sisaxis controller working via bluetooth with the n900 i might be interested Feb 05 05:50:30 hmm Feb 05 05:50:35 I THOUGHT the 6axis was working Feb 05 05:50:36 i have one in backpack Feb 05 05:50:42 same with wiimote Feb 05 05:50:46 pupnik_: http://bit.ly/azAxRZ this might work Feb 05 05:51:09 wtf is .ly ? Feb 05 05:51:42 ty chaoi Feb 05 05:52:38 id really like to get it integrated Feb 05 05:52:52 pupnik_: i haven't tried yet. I hope so too, like iphone Feb 05 05:53:02 so you just seek and pair, then click "network" Feb 05 05:53:23 was looking into avahi also Feb 05 05:53:59 lot of crappy dirs in / Feb 05 05:54:24 yeah Feb 05 05:54:42 /floppy? Feb 05 05:56:27 feel free to remove /floppy Feb 05 05:57:29 do you change user name and host name or you keep them defaults? Feb 05 05:58:53 i think 'user' user name is hard coded in a lot of programs, so i doubt i can change that Feb 05 05:59:31 that sucks Feb 05 05:59:47 what's MyDocs? Feb 05 06:00:23 your vfat partition is mounted there Feb 05 06:01:40 so it's all that's available when using ums usb mode Feb 05 06:02:58 so a fat partition makes for 27GB of my 32GB Feb 05 06:03:15 not that great Feb 05 06:04:27 if you are geek enough to need a linux partition then you are geek enough to make one? :) could be easier tho :) Feb 05 06:04:35 uhsf: hostname isn't a problem to change Feb 05 06:04:58 the ext3 partition is mounted on /home, it's pretty impossible to kill all apps that access that, which would be a prerequisite to offering it over usb massstorage Feb 05 06:06:06 nuke mass storage Feb 05 06:07:02 ShadowJK: what would be the easiest way? boot alternative os from microsd? Feb 05 06:07:37 chaoyi: for what exactly? Feb 05 06:07:55 DocScrutinizer: like resize / partition Feb 05 06:08:15 the microsd could be used for ums and they should have left the internal flash linux only Feb 05 06:08:18 you can't resize / part Feb 05 06:08:41 it's NAND and exactly 256MB (minus bl etc partitions) Feb 05 06:08:45 DocScrutinizer: oh right, it's 256m Feb 05 06:09:02 DocScrutinizer: resize /opt partition maybe? Feb 05 06:09:26 DocScrutinizer: i'm glad hostname isn't a problem to change Feb 05 06:09:31 I wish /opt was a partiton Feb 05 06:09:58 but i wish user name wasn't hard coded and could be changed Feb 05 06:10:30 DocScrutinizer: /opt is symlinked to /home Feb 05 06:11:05 I know Feb 05 06:11:48 DocScrutinizer: to resize /dev/mmcblk0, is it best to use an alternative os from microsd Feb 05 06:12:10 DocScrutinizer: i mean to resize partitions in /dev/mmcblk0 Feb 05 06:12:49 depends Feb 05 06:13:51 * Arkenoi actually never needed mass storage mode as scp is handy enough and it does not lock anything Feb 05 06:14:05 as long as you manage to umount, I think you don't need another rootfs to boot from Feb 05 06:14:15 as I said Feb 05 06:14:21 nuke mass storage Feb 05 06:15:40 Arkenoi: scp is slow Feb 05 06:15:52 tarpipe! Feb 05 06:16:06 mass storage is best to transfer pc game to lab machines Feb 05 06:17:03 you might want to enter something like sftp://user@192.168.1.31/home/user to Konqueror (or any other browser of your preference) Feb 05 06:17:04 RST38h, well, if i was really concerned about speed, i'd use nfs. but i am not. Feb 05 06:17:04 i'm glad to find out bluetooth has 200kB/s Feb 05 06:18:34 RST38h, btw have you noticed i've updated my russian n900 faq today? are there things worth mentioning i've missed? Feb 05 06:20:46 anyone use ssh reverse tunneling here? Feb 05 06:21:33 yea Feb 05 06:21:44 you should mention Maep Feb 05 06:22:25 what is Maep? Feb 05 06:22:27 Arkenoi: 2GB of video will take forever to copy via nfs or ssh Feb 05 06:23:08 Couldn't find package screen? Feb 05 06:23:12 RST38h: i have a microsd reader in my wallet Feb 05 06:23:28 me too Feb 05 06:25:35 and you all open your N900s, take cards out, write to them, put them back in, and close N900s just to weatch a video? Feb 05 06:25:37 rst38h: what is it good for? Feb 05 06:26:08 Arkenoi: Maep? It is a better map application Feb 05 06:26:20 RST38h: either I watch a stream Feb 05 06:26:44 RST38h: ...or my videos *are* on uSD already, so I'll have to swap anyway Feb 05 06:27:18 do i only need to edit the line in /etc/hostname to change hostname? Feb 05 06:27:32 yup Feb 05 06:27:56 uhsf: add this repo 'deb http://repository.maemo.org/ fremantle/tools free non-free' for screen Feb 05 06:28:09 rst38: exactly what is better with it? Feb 05 06:28:17 Thanks for reminding me. Last flashing reset it Feb 05 06:28:48 i shortened hostname to "N900" Feb 05 06:28:53 Arkenoi: Less bugs. Simpler UI. Works faster. Feb 05 06:30:33 rst38h: i am still waiting for proper yandex traffic support in maemo-mapper Feb 05 06:31:35 chaoyi: this line goes in /etc/apt/? Feb 05 06:32:01 uhsf: put in a file in '/etc/apt/sources.list.d' Feb 05 06:32:42 my debian years seem a long time ago now Feb 05 06:33:24 Arkenoi: You can write the author but I doubt it will ever happen. Yandex uses tile format incompatible with Maemo Mapper Feb 05 06:33:32 Arkenoi: Hence a specially hacked build Feb 05 06:33:58 Arkenoi: BTW, MTS now offers two unlimited data plans Feb 05 06:34:10 (bandwidth capped) Feb 05 06:37:30 rst38h: not going to change my phone number anyways :-( Feb 05 06:37:58 masochist =) Feb 05 06:38:32 well, maep is good map application, but it is just a map. search is basically broken and there is no route planning. but it is fast as hell! Feb 05 06:39:10 i kinda hate the hardcoded user name and MyDocs Feb 05 06:39:16 will write a line in the faq now Feb 05 06:40:39 i so need power. i cannot use n900 in a miserly fashion Feb 05 06:41:54 lol? /var/lib/dpkg/info is 21mb. Feb 05 06:44:11 rst38h: i guess there should be also a mapping application to use scanned raster military maps (here are damn many fans of those in Russia), do you know its name? Feb 05 06:44:12 my laptop's is 7M Feb 05 06:44:59 chaoyi, that's from n900 :/ Feb 05 06:45:01 Arkenoi: When walking around the place, Maep is priceless Feb 05 06:45:28 slonopotamus: i checked too mine is also 21m Feb 05 06:45:29 Arkenoi: Well, there is none right now. Personally, I would love to have retromaps.ru connected to Maep or Maemo Mapper Feb 05 06:45:32 rst38h: yep. if you are not going to search for nearby objects ;-) Feb 05 06:45:41 none? Feb 05 06:45:44 that's amazing Feb 05 06:45:49 Arkenoi: But the Maep guy already refused saying he does not do local stuff Feb 05 06:46:08 rst38h: ask shmuma then Feb 05 06:46:29 chaoyi, it seems a bit... too much Feb 05 06:46:36 Arkenoi: Not gonna to, I do not like what shmuma is doing Feb 05 06:47:08 RST38h, what's wrong with it? Feb 05 06:47:09 slonopotamus: 'dpkg -l | wc -l ' is 1744, my laptop only has like 200 Feb 05 06:47:55 ouch Feb 05 06:48:02 hmm, sftp over wifi maxes out at 650KiB/s Feb 05 06:50:43 Arkenoi: He is hacking some adhoc solution inside Maemo Mapper and does not care to promote those changes into the mainline version Feb 05 06:50:56 Arkenoi: I prefer to use mainline. Feb 05 06:51:45 rst38h: i was under the impression he has a reason to fork, maybe his changes were not accepted in the mainline? he says he changed *really* much Feb 05 06:51:51 Arkenoi: The "correct" way would be to make a proxy server that transcodes Yandex maps into whatever format mainline Maemo Mapper understands and then add that server as a map source Feb 05 06:52:07 Arkenoi: Yes, it is that "changed really much" that I do not like. Feb 05 06:52:21 this makes us dependant on stability of yet another online service Feb 05 06:52:35 we already are, does not change a thing Feb 05 06:52:56 Besides, the guy WORKS for Yandex, so he should be able to do it straight at Yandex server Feb 05 06:53:36 * RST38h ==> work Feb 05 06:54:43 maemo mapper has gotten powahful Feb 05 06:56:11 finally Feb 05 06:56:23 does downloading/caching maps work now? Feb 05 06:56:45 hey my new device should be delivered later today ... Feb 05 06:59:06 last week i got mine, enable rd-mode immediately, found out keyboard is flashing , called dell for replacement and now i have two in my hand Feb 05 06:59:35 i feel bad, gonna return tomorrow Feb 05 06:59:56 i'm trying to run a program directly in MyDocs but i get permission denied Feb 05 07:00:08 it's mounted with noexec? Feb 05 07:00:30 chaoyi: lol Feb 05 07:00:32 chaoyi, err... they didn't take first one? :) Feb 05 07:00:50 how to run a binary program i downloaded? Feb 05 07:01:17 slonopotamus: i should return in 10 days Feb 05 07:01:24 uhsf: chmod +x Feb 05 07:01:24 oh Feb 05 07:01:43 cehteh, no. noexec on fat partition. Feb 05 07:01:48 chaoyi: the keyboard flashing in r&d mode is intentional Feb 05 07:01:55 cehteh: yeah, i know Feb 05 07:01:57 cehteh: now Feb 05 07:02:00 slonopotamus: ah ok Feb 05 07:02:05 i know but chmod but where to place the binary? Feb 05 07:02:26 uhsf: them copy it somewhere to /usr or /opt ... /opt/bin or whatever Feb 05 07:02:45 uhsf, anywhere _except_ /home/user :) Feb 05 07:03:17 correction: except /home/user/MyDocs Feb 05 07:03:39 yes just mkdir /home/user/bin add that tp path and copy it there would work Feb 05 07:06:41 what do you have in your /usr/local/bin directory right now? i compiled unison, sed, find, grep, gzip, od Feb 05 07:07:43 od? Feb 05 07:08:00 od in busybox breaks my autossh Feb 05 07:08:34 what Feb 05 07:08:36 err Feb 05 07:08:44 chaoyi, what's od at all? Feb 05 07:08:56 or, as timeless says, ever :) Feb 05 07:09:08 a utility in coreutils Feb 05 07:09:27 translate hex maybe? Feb 05 07:10:00 you're asking me? Feb 05 07:10:39 slonopotamus: autossh complained about that file, so i just grabbed that one from coreutils Feb 05 07:11:32 od seems to stand for octal dump Feb 05 07:12:47 this line breaks, randport=$( od -x -N2 -An /dev/urandom | tr -d ' ' ) Feb 05 07:13:55 ~nuke busybox Feb 05 07:13:56 * infobot prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at busybox ... B☢☢M! Feb 05 07:14:46 should't that be KA-BOOM? Feb 05 07:15:17 infobot, no such font on n900, btw. Feb 05 07:15:43 no symbols, i mean. Feb 05 07:15:50 droid-font? Feb 05 07:16:21 nice radioactivity signs here on desktop PC Feb 05 07:17:22 DocScrutinizer: me too, Lucida Grnde Feb 05 07:19:25 seems that it would be wise to blank a screen "logically" somehow before it is switched off physically. seems that desktop widgets are still running while the screen is dark - if you "park" the phone on, say, xterm, it saves battery power much Feb 05 07:20:50 duh, really? Feb 05 07:21:00 that's quite a bug then Feb 05 07:21:04 Hmm, they dropped most of my patches in vte, wonder if they kept the one that disabled the cursor blinking timeout when the cursor is not blinking... Feb 05 07:21:05 just tried that and my battery is still 38% after 24 hours Feb 05 07:21:27 if i do not it runs out nearly that time Feb 05 07:22:33 Arkenoi: this patches are included now? Feb 05 07:22:38 Arkenoi, revolted machine? (just checking) Feb 05 07:23:17 no patches, just "parked" it on maximized xterm Feb 05 07:23:33 slonopotamus, yep Feb 05 07:23:42 ah .. that perhaps turns compositing off Feb 05 07:24:04 that could save some power Feb 05 07:24:29 well and hiding other widgets Feb 05 07:24:45 i guess it is possible to write a daemon that will do that automatically? Feb 05 07:24:59 nethack-console in extras-devel now Feb 05 07:25:03 fullscreen xterm? Feb 05 07:25:26 imo the powermanagement should be smart enough to do that without some hacks Feb 05 07:25:30 cehteh: invoke a screen blaking application on "screen off" event Feb 05 07:25:32 I wondered if parking on an empty workspace would help too :) Feb 05 07:25:36 yeah Feb 05 07:25:49 cehteh: ack Feb 05 07:26:06 well the xserver is bit strange there due the propietary opengles Feb 05 07:26:17 does xset work? Feb 05 07:26:21 cehteh: no not full-screen xterm Feb 05 07:27:11 iirc the screen management is completely done by some system stuff .. mce, systemui, clutter whatever Feb 05 07:27:28 hope and pray its one of the opensourced parts Feb 05 07:27:58 nope isn't Feb 05 07:28:16 that's power management basically Feb 05 07:28:30 hmm but pm events should be go over dbus maybe its possible to write a small daemon Feb 05 07:28:52 sometimes i want to slap nokia in the face.. Feb 05 07:29:16 DocScrutinizer, i'd say that's X server screensaving. Feb 05 07:29:18 slap the source out the mouth Feb 05 07:29:40 having the most open phone is one nice thing, being not open and flawed in vital parts is annoying Feb 05 07:29:47 basically power management should treat the app that holds focus same way as hidden apps, as soon as scrren goes black Feb 05 07:29:58 yeah Feb 05 07:30:15 or even notify "hey we are sleeping now, maybe you can do even less" Feb 05 07:30:33 except of course when you have a video out hooked up Feb 05 07:31:02 i wont care if the weather widget doesnt update while the screen is off .. just when some update was pending and i turn the screen on it might do a delayed update Feb 05 07:31:25 cehteh: that's exactly what powermanagement does on hidden apps Feb 05 07:31:30 for my laptop i have such a script, when the lid is closed it SIGSTOP's all interative applications Feb 05 07:31:56 is there a concept of XSCB-Original-Uploaders? Feb 05 07:31:56 DocScrutinizer: if it does then we have a bug, because it seems not consistent then Feb 05 07:32:07 yep Feb 05 07:32:11 that's quite a bug then Feb 05 07:32:20 well maybe i add such a 'SIGSTOP' thing to my n900 Feb 05 07:32:22 Feb 05 07:32:41 cehteh: it's all there already Feb 05 07:32:48 from my last impression it was quite good at telling apps to sleep .. Feb 05 07:33:00 just the part for screen blanking missing obviously Feb 05 07:33:19 DocScrutinizer: i mean real sigstop nit just wait on events Feb 05 07:33:44 you probably don't want to do this Feb 05 07:34:11 with selected apps i have no problem Feb 05 07:34:36 my script has a list of applications to stop Feb 05 07:35:09 basically the app should wait anyway. An app that needs sigstop is buggy for a mobile device Feb 05 07:35:09 browserd could be candidate for example (stopping flash and javascript while pages are open) Feb 05 07:35:28 yes but hey this is not a ideal world Feb 05 07:36:08 and how does the webbrowser know that a javascript wich is constantly running might be stopped? Feb 05 07:36:19 you know webdesigners have no real clues about programming Feb 05 07:37:17 hello maermo Feb 05 07:37:20 maemo* Feb 05 07:37:39 if its some ajax which chit-chats with some server even without screen updates you are prolly on your own stopping that Feb 05 07:38:06 anyways i have that since years on my laptop and it works quite well Feb 05 08:04:55 woo Feb 05 08:16:37 rm_you: hoo? Feb 05 08:18:27 heh Feb 05 08:47:09 Morning, all Feb 05 08:55:20 is anyone presenting a n900 at fosdem? Feb 05 08:57:48 morning Feb 05 08:58:31 hmm, this BBC article about new Ovi maps is just taunting me: ""We're averaging a download a second, 24 hours a day," said Anssi Vanjoki, Nokia's executive vice president. " Feb 05 09:04:18 Do we have full flash rather than flash-lite? Feb 05 09:04:37 http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8287239.stm Feb 05 09:05:25 RichiH_fosdem, presenting don't know, but there's definitely talks about it, and booths where you can play with one Feb 05 09:08:12 Apple has warned developers that they can't use location-based services such as the Core Location framework to deliver ads to iPhone Feb 05 09:08:46 (this Register article is nicely adorned with a picture of N900 and a link to its review) Feb 05 09:09:29 I don't see any problem with delivering ads, just as long as a user knows the app they are using will do it Feb 05 09:09:38 and can stop using the app and stop the ads Feb 05 09:09:42 lardman: You do not but Apple does. Feb 05 09:09:50 yeah, well :) Feb 05 09:10:19 * RST38h wonders if Apple is simply testing how far they can abuse developers before those start leaving Feb 05 09:22:22 lardman: i think the emphasys was on “location-based services” Feb 05 09:26:35 how do you remove own uploaded package from repos? Feb 05 09:27:13 (from devel) Feb 05 09:27:28 <`0660_> which package is it? so i know to download it while it's still there :) Feb 05 09:27:36 `0660_: haha :D Feb 05 09:27:54 `0660_: its library, im not sure is it stable enough to survive on repo hell :) Feb 05 09:28:03 even tho it compiles "OK" Feb 05 09:28:26 RST38h: wasn't there a /. article about some dev(s?) jumping ship? Feb 05 09:29:24 ifreq: if it builds, it works! Feb 05 09:29:34 hrr Feb 05 09:29:39 okay fine! Feb 05 09:30:45 what about builds that do not "build", are they removed from garage after some time? Feb 05 09:37:25 zash: No, just moaning, but still taking it into their backsides. Feb 05 09:47:07 andrei1089: kk, cool Feb 05 09:47:10 ifreq: no, Garage is the repo, doesn't need to build Feb 05 09:47:21 not repo, sorry wrong wording Feb 05 09:47:33 location for the source is what I meant Feb 05 09:47:59 Anyone know where source code for telepathy-msn-pecan resides, is it in git? Feb 05 09:49:01 we really need a single git repo whcih tracks EVERYTHING on the device. Finding source sucks Feb 05 09:49:34 is probably upstream Feb 05 09:49:49 so wander to the Telepathy website and see what they have Feb 05 09:50:35 lardman: thx Feb 05 09:51:28 np Feb 05 10:20:44 * hrw-gone-fosdem is brussels Feb 05 10:22:58 I mean in Brussels of course Feb 05 10:23:48 time to go Feb 05 10:24:30 heh Feb 05 10:24:36 * Pavlov doesn't get there until tomorrow :/ Feb 05 10:27:19 konttori_nokia: ping Feb 05 10:29:20 http://www.lightinthebox.com/N900-Style-Quad-Band-Dual-Card-Dual-Camera-JAVA-Qwerty-Keypad-Cell-Phone-Black--2GB-TF-Card--SZ00510226-_p86837.html?currency=GBP Feb 05 10:31:07 Damion2: with java!! Feb 05 10:31:15 it's way better than a real n900 Feb 05 10:32:31 http://image.lightinthebox.com/images/v/201001/yqzf1263441940250.jpg and nice UI Feb 05 10:33:12 ha ha ha Feb 05 10:33:36 wow, it even supports ovi store :P Feb 05 10:34:47 but they reduced the screen resolution to 320x240 Feb 05 10:41:28 btw guys : http://deviate.fi/n900/mp3blaster/mp3blaster.png go test its on repos :) Feb 05 10:42:32 a bit retro, isn't it? ;) Feb 05 10:42:46 "-1 not hildonized" Feb 05 10:42:46 yeah, but i like console tools/utils :) Feb 05 10:42:54 well, that's pretty nice (and geeky) http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/05/n900-gains-ps3-sixaxis-control-over-snes-gaming-video/ Feb 05 10:42:57 mgedmin: tell this to the guy at t.m.o who hates GUIs Feb 05 10:43:00 mgedmin: i dont know the hildonize basics yet Feb 05 10:43:06 * mgedmin was joking Feb 05 10:45:11 keybindings could need some rework.. mayb on next version Feb 05 10:45:17 mgedmin: it was my 1st package i ever build :) Feb 05 10:45:23 cool Feb 05 10:45:26 so good practice with help of jebba and lcuk Feb 05 10:45:39 now i can contribute! Feb 05 10:45:46 to teh community :) Feb 05 10:46:07 \o/ Feb 05 11:09:39 RichiH_fosdem, hi Feb 05 11:09:55 Jaffa, pong Feb 05 11:13:46 andrei1089: hi Feb 05 11:13:55 oh, i tab completed to the wrong guy Feb 05 11:13:56 sorry :) Feb 05 11:14:02 andre41: ok, cool Feb 05 11:14:17 andre41: any idea about what specific stands to look for? Feb 05 11:14:36 I think the GNOME stand should have at least a N900 to show Feb 05 11:14:40 plus there are some talks related to it Feb 05 11:14:51 really got to go now to catch my flight to Brussels, sorry Feb 05 11:14:54 ciao Feb 05 11:16:06 is 'ifup' called by icd2? Feb 05 11:16:11 is there way to set the default dbus timeout with qt/dbus? Feb 05 11:20:16 * Stskeeps passed his masters thesis exam Feb 05 11:21:00 congrats Stskeeps :) Feb 05 11:21:05 Stskeeps: congrats \o/ Feb 05 11:21:37 gz Feb 05 11:22:46 congrats \o/ Feb 05 11:26:21 konttori_nokia: Was wondering if the find-as-you-type list/tree view feature in Hildon was going to be in PR1.2? Feb 05 11:28:12 Jaffa, yes it is there Feb 05 11:28:16 and works really well Feb 05 11:28:19 konttori_nokia: Cool stuff. Feb 05 11:28:25 you can also expect it to be there for most of the apps as well Feb 05 11:28:35 * Jaffa has marked a request for it as WONTFIX in Hermes, pending its release :) Feb 05 11:28:45 * Jaffa will still possibly make code changes if it doesn't work OOTB Feb 05 11:28:54 fingerscrossed it makes it to pyhildon asap ;) Feb 05 11:29:32 if you have multiple columns in the treeview, you need to a) either provide own filter function, or b) select one column as the text search column Feb 05 11:30:01 konttori_nokia: Presumably though it doesn't use the existing GtkTreeView API for it? Feb 05 11:30:21 http://maemo.gitorious.org/hildon/hildon/blobs/master/examples/hildon-live-search-example.c Feb 05 11:30:43 it should use the existing api even (the one where you select the search column) Feb 05 11:30:56 Cool Feb 05 11:32:30 * smaug___ forgot to complain about N900's email client to meamo people Feb 05 11:38:48 does silverlight work on the n900? Feb 05 11:40:44 if it does, i'd pay someone to break it Feb 05 11:40:50 IcanCU: i think you can get mono to run, and thus moonlight on top, but you won't get that MS proprietary codecs pack to work for wmv playback as i think they're binary blobs for x86 Feb 05 11:41:00 lol Feb 05 11:41:16 i see Feb 05 11:42:58 * RST38h moos at konttori, thresh, zap, VDVsx Feb 05 11:44:05 hai Feb 05 11:51:32 morning RST38h :) Feb 05 11:55:07 so should i wait for the next maemo device? Feb 05 11:55:12 or get one now Feb 05 11:55:23 maemo seems really interesting Feb 05 11:55:39 but next upgrade seems to bring a lot new features Feb 05 11:55:59 that'll probably always be the case Feb 05 11:57:19 hmm. it's hard finding docs on building qemu in scratchbox, seeing as scratchbox uses qemu itself Feb 05 11:59:45 do I want armeb or arm ? Feb 05 12:26:00 Damion2: you want ARMEL Feb 05 12:26:12 certainly not ARMEB anyway Feb 05 12:26:44 L=little-endian, B=big-endian Feb 05 12:27:11 default is L afaik (i.e with no L or B) Feb 05 12:30:41 sb-menu doesn't have armel only arm and armeb Feb 05 12:30:44 I'll skim more docs Feb 05 12:30:54 I've already built and tested ls :) Feb 05 12:31:07 qemu is proving more awkward Feb 05 12:32:43 go for arm then Feb 05 12:36:55 http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8499859.stm Feb 05 12:37:05 only a little while to wait for some of ours then chaps ;) Feb 05 12:44:20 am off, have a nice day all Feb 05 12:45:42 hi maemo folk ! I'm trying to understand how filesystems are mounted on the n900... what the hell is this 205M of / ? where are applications stored ? How is it possible that I have to remove some programs to be able to sens sms again ? what would happen if I fill 100% of my root ? Feb 05 12:46:28 / is ubifs on a 256 MB NAND flash device Feb 05 12:46:51 where applications are stored depends on packaging: usually either in / or in /opt Feb 05 12:47:11 I *think* SMSes are stored on a different partition -- probably /home? Feb 05 12:47:22 /opt and /home are the same partition, actually Feb 05 12:47:27 2GB ext2 Feb 05 12:47:34 Reheya all Feb 05 12:47:56 if you fill your root to 100%, it won't be pleasant, but nothing _too_ bad should happen Feb 05 12:48:36 ubifs is a log-structured filesystem that delays freeing up space to a background garbage collector Feb 05 12:48:42 actually I'm not sure there is a background gc Feb 05 12:48:58 ubifs does gc on reboot, so a reboot usually frees up significant chunks of / Feb 05 12:49:07 I've heard that 'sync' will also trigger gc, but haven't verified that Feb 05 12:49:18 mgedmin: thanks alot for these explainations, so if someone misspackages something, libs and co are going to / , the normal path for external apps is /opt so ? Feb 05 12:49:28 yes Feb 05 12:50:06 df;sync;df = -128k Feb 05 12:50:20 rom1dep: it's not quite like that. Feb 05 12:50:21 cool Feb 05 12:50:36 rom1dep: ideally thinks are symlinked from / into /opt Feb 05 12:51:08 *Ideally* things install into /opt; *practically* most things symlink Feb 05 12:51:25 oh Feb 05 12:51:27 k Feb 05 12:51:41 chosing /opt is strange... but well, ok... but how is it that simple to fill / ? I mean.. it's more than unfriendly for user reading "well, do some cleanup, there is no more space for speaking with your friends !" Feb 05 12:51:50 I just woke up - I was assuming hte lack of /opt in path - but ogf course that's irrelevant Feb 05 12:52:04 rom1dep: Eh? Feb 05 12:53:02 I had such a message, twice.. I uninstalled a theme and another package to save some space on / I was able to send messages back, after that... Feb 05 12:54:04 anyone running conky on n900.. any positive/negative thoughts about it? Feb 05 12:54:56 So, if I encountered that, I'm guilty because I used missconfigured packages from extras-{testing/devel} ? Feb 05 12:55:08 /etc/ld.so.conf doesn't even contain /opt/usr/lib/ or similar Feb 05 12:55:11 which would be handy Feb 05 12:55:27 I guess you can use ld options when building Feb 05 12:55:42 Damion2: There's a suggestion somewhere about doing that; but it'd've increased the QA on Maemo 5 too much and it wouldn't have made it out the door when it did Feb 05 12:55:48 rom1dep: Probably, yes. Feb 05 12:59:48 ok, I'm pretty new with deb packaging (my netbook+server runs fedora/mandriva) is there an easy way to list which packages are using / instead of /opt , and in that case reporting bugs on garage ? (something like a for including something to list packages and for each package, listing installed files... + |grep ?) Feb 05 13:01:50 rom1dep: Relatively easy, yes - but be aware of http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=511794#post511794 Feb 05 13:04:38 * wazd swears stskeeps Feb 05 13:05:04 gah, qemu's configure is saying Unsupported CPU = unknown Feb 05 13:05:49 wazd: mm? Feb 05 13:06:20 Stskeeps: oh, I thought you're at the defence :) Feb 05 13:06:32 wazd: passed, now got a comp.sci masters degree :) Feb 05 13:06:48 Stskeeps: old weird russian student tradition :D Feb 05 13:07:16 hehe Feb 05 13:07:23 Jaffa: you mean, running pymaemo-optify will help me determining which packages are misspackaged ? Feb 05 13:07:30 Stskeeps: wooo! And you're still not drunk?! Feb 05 13:07:42 wazd: in about 1-2 hours i will be Feb 05 13:07:45 student bar opening there Feb 05 13:08:25 Stskeeps: you now can go to the masters bar :D with vodka and girls :D Feb 05 13:08:56 different bars like in the army :D Feb 05 13:09:09 Stskeeps, congrats ;) Feb 05 13:09:30 rom1dep: No. Python packages which have a transitive dependency on pymaemo-optify can install in certain locations in /usr but still be optified. Feb 05 13:09:51 Stskeeps: now you can accept padawans? :D Feb 05 13:10:12 wazd: hehe Feb 05 13:10:36 Jaffa: ahhhh... Well, I'll ignore python-related packages in that case... Feb 05 13:11:45 Stskeeps: well, since it's a great holiday today, then I'm gonna go and buy new CPU and SLI video :) 2nd christmas! Feb 05 13:11:53 hehe Feb 05 13:11:57 what did you burn out? :P Feb 05 13:12:51 Nothing, but my athlon X2 4200 is too weak for today's things :) Feb 05 13:13:01 hehe Feb 05 13:14:06 definition of "today's things" is very random ^^ Feb 05 13:14:26 how about slashdot Feb 05 13:14:43 that page feels slow on Q9550 Feb 05 13:14:46 ;p Feb 05 13:16:05 wow, you know, there is a world behind internet explorer xD (yepp, that was a troll ;) ) Feb 05 13:16:49 firefox actually :) Feb 05 13:17:54 just another question, is is possible to run binaries stored on the 20+Gb-vfat partition ? Feb 05 13:18:04 no Feb 05 13:18:08 * rom1dep waiting for copying the whole jre .. or not Feb 05 13:18:21 well, yes, but not easily Feb 05 13:18:43 something like an option somewhere in the fstab ? Feb 05 13:18:45 * ShadowJK has memory card formatted ext3 Feb 05 13:18:54 doesn't automount tho Feb 05 13:19:29 * rom1dep thinks doing like ShadowJK in that case.. Feb 05 13:20:11 manually mounting ext3 won't be that hard, but too bad that ext3 isn't handled by default :( Feb 05 13:20:37 mgedmin: what is -quickly- your workaround to get it work ? Feb 05 13:20:39 what's wrong with mounting as ext2? Feb 05 13:20:52 rom1dep, what sort of executable? Feb 05 13:21:13 they are compatible, you just lose some extra features of the filesystem like journalling Feb 05 13:21:17 /lib/ld-linux.so.3 /path/to/exec might work Feb 05 13:21:29 mgedmin: sun's jdk arm port, yepp, shame on me, i like java programming... Feb 05 13:21:43 mgedmin: I tried that and was surprised to find that noexec mountpoint actually stopped it working Feb 05 13:21:57 what, the ld-linux.so thing? Feb 05 13:22:06 That was fixed around 2.6.26 or so I think... Feb 05 13:22:22 what was fixed? Feb 05 13:22:29 mgedmin: yeah, I thought it might be a clever workaround Feb 05 13:22:31 ///usr/sbin/mmc-mount (it's a small script) btw Feb 05 13:22:41 I've not tried LD_PRELOAD=/path/to/noexec/place/blah.so Feb 05 13:22:59 but I suspect ther kernel magic people have addressed that too Feb 05 13:23:01 mgedmin: okay :) I'll try that ! Feb 05 13:23:25 mgedmin: using ld-linux.so on a noexec mounted fs Feb 05 13:23:44 interesting Feb 05 13:24:00 but sh /script/on/noexec/fs still works, I assume? Feb 05 13:24:02 woo, I'm finally getting the N900 :D Feb 05 13:24:08 Arif_, congrats! Feb 05 13:24:36 thanks :) Feb 05 13:24:45 I got tired of waiting so I bought it 2nd hand :P Feb 05 13:25:28 are there any more things I should check apart from the dead mic and WD32_TO reboot errors? Feb 05 13:26:06 mgedmin: yes Feb 05 13:26:13 pixel errors, cam slider coming loose, usb connector come loose Feb 05 13:26:14 mgedmin: the kernel is not involved there... Feb 05 13:26:24 slider mechanism loose Feb 05 13:26:33 GeneralAntilles: You have exciting ("do some work") email ;-) Feb 05 13:26:42 thanks :) Feb 05 13:27:06 is the 'accellerometer appears to be stuck' fixed in pr1.1? Feb 05 13:27:26 mhm and my new device should now come any minute *waiting* Feb 05 13:27:34 xorAxAx: how is dwimd going? Feb 05 13:28:22 its running Feb 05 13:29:08 installing doesnt break the device? :) Feb 05 13:29:15 well we should promote it more Feb 05 13:29:30 * cehteh waits for the postman Feb 05 13:29:35 the next step would be an autoaway application Feb 05 13:29:38 that uses dwimd Feb 05 13:29:47 and a configuration gui Feb 05 13:29:49 Do you also have this little magnetig square got peeled off (the one that takes the support leg closed) ? Feb 05 13:30:08 rom1dep: urgs .. thats a new one Feb 05 13:30:35 but i guess that easily fixable with some glue Feb 05 13:31:05 unless you lose the magnet, I suppose Feb 05 13:31:08 ouch ouch ouch Feb 05 13:31:11 cehteh: yep, known ? too bad, I'll try superglue but that contrasts with the impression of robustness that gave me first :) Feb 05 13:31:21 my biggest fear is that the flimsy "stand" will break off Feb 05 13:31:53 mgedmin: i'm lucky enough to have not lots the magnet :) Feb 05 13:32:44 until you don't sit on it it must survive ^^ Feb 05 13:33:58 anyway, I don't use it that much, that "stand" is too small I think Feb 05 13:35:43 iirc the whole backcover isnt that expensive to replace Feb 05 13:35:56 there where prices somwhere Feb 05 13:36:32 but yes, a solid stand like on the n810 would be better Feb 05 13:37:06 actually, I broke one of those Feb 05 13:37:14 ... by sitting on it Feb 05 13:37:21 nah, just kidding Feb 05 13:37:41 hooked the charger with my leg and it flew onto the floor Feb 05 13:37:44 anyone built the fosdem schedule app thingy ive seen floating around? Feb 05 13:37:51 the stand bent slightly sideways Feb 05 13:38:13 I bent it back, most of the way Feb 05 13:38:14 Is it possible to send cookies to the media player with DBus? (com.nokia.mediaplayer.mime_open) Feb 05 13:38:14 mg? a n900 stand bent? Feb 05 13:38:21 it rubs a bit on one side when you close it Feb 05 13:38:22 I'd like to play a video but it requires an authentication cookie to play Feb 05 13:38:24 i thought those were indestructable Feb 05 13:38:25 no, this was a n810 Feb 05 13:38:44 and the stand no longer has intermediate positions after the adventure Feb 05 13:38:48 it's either open all the way, or not Feb 05 13:38:50 mgedmin: too bad :( Feb 05 13:38:51 heh i dud that Feb 05 13:38:52 no convenient reading angle Feb 05 13:38:57 the n900 came out just in time to rescue me Feb 05 13:39:06 take it off and reshape it Feb 05 13:39:30 * w00t rests his brain for a bit Feb 05 13:39:37 * Stskeeps ponders going for booze money Feb 05 13:39:44 I have been writing far too much code for a friday.. Feb 05 13:40:06 Stskeeps: got people to meet up with for fun and profit? Feb 05 13:40:13 w00t: old work mates Feb 05 13:40:17 good Feb 05 13:40:29 nobody, not even a new masters graduate, should drink alone ;p Feb 05 13:40:45 idd Feb 05 13:40:59 hey w00t Feb 05 13:41:03 * mgedmin never finished his masters... Feb 05 13:41:04 morning lcukn900 :) Feb 05 13:41:15 mgedmin: don't feel lonely, I never went to university at all Feb 05 13:41:16 * lcukn900 is airporting Feb 05 13:41:17 * ifreq is master of the universe Feb 05 13:41:21 to fosdem Feb 05 13:41:22 though I hope to, one day Feb 05 13:41:28 lcukn900: damn you you lucky bastard *shake fist* Feb 05 13:41:46 * ifreq is heading to Post Office.. new cb radio waiting Feb 05 13:41:48 w00t mm its a collabora company meeting almost lol Feb 05 13:41:51 anyone have an N900 with KMplayer installed? Feb 05 13:42:11 Arif_: Many people Feb 05 13:42:17 Arif_: I for one but I haven't used it Feb 05 13:42:27 mg are you at fosdem? Feb 05 13:42:31 anyone willing to test out if my satellite card streams to the N900 Feb 05 13:42:32 :) Feb 05 13:43:03 Arif_: :) Why can't you test it yoruself ? Feb 05 13:43:05 lcukn900: I was going to be there, but, decided that given my situation and the fact that I totally forgot about it until last week, that I should probably not :-/ Feb 05 13:43:15 I don't have an N900 yet Feb 05 13:43:16 :P Feb 05 13:43:23 Arif_: ok, throw me with the url Feb 05 13:44:51 andres: interesting how recent that is, I was going to patch ld-linux.so to not run arguments as it's not a normal use for it Feb 05 13:45:16 You can still circumvent it, so... Feb 05 13:45:46 does LD_PRELOAD=/path/to/code.so work ? Feb 05 13:46:38 lcukn900, my xchat doesn't highlight 'mg' Feb 05 13:46:40 sadly no Feb 05 13:46:48 * mgedmin wishes he could come to fosdem Feb 05 13:49:07 anyone know what I can do about: Feb 05 13:49:09 LINK i386-linux-user/qemu-i386 Feb 05 13:49:09 libqemu.a(tcg.o): In function `flush_icache_range': Feb 05 13:49:09 /home/damion/src/qemu-0.12.2/tcg/arm/tcg-target.h:78: undefined reference to `__builtin___clear_cache' Feb 05 13:51:02 that sounds like a gcc builtin, no? Feb 05 13:51:12 * mgedmin is threading on very thin ice here Feb 05 13:51:31 yeah, I have an awful workaround Feb 05 13:52:27 mgedmin fosdem i missed if u answered, are u comin Feb 05 13:52:41 Jaffa, I'm excited. Feb 05 13:53:01 lcukn900, sadly I'm not coming Feb 05 13:53:12 booo hiss Feb 05 13:53:14 unless the black helicopters come and kidnap me Feb 05 13:53:34 * mgedmin a bit short on cash currently to self-finance this Feb 05 13:53:46 * lcukn900 has to go im onboard Feb 05 13:54:16 GeneralAntilles: Goodo :) Feb 05 13:55:43 Those dancing robots creep me out. Feb 05 14:00:54 Hmmm Nokia N900 + SIXAXIS = WIN Feb 05 14:01:10 wait whut Feb 05 14:01:28 o right, the PS3 controller was Bluetooth Feb 05 14:01:38 I wish the wiicontrol app would work properly >_> Feb 05 14:01:59 great, my domainhosting service seems to be nuked out of orbit, no dns :( Feb 05 14:04:19 I might have to write a better one... Feb 05 14:04:32 Having an actual app running just for an input device seems a bit excessive anyways Feb 05 14:04:53 Maybe a widget or a top-menu-thingie button for connecting to it Feb 05 14:05:40 why Method "Connect" with signature "s" on interface "org.bluez.Network" doesn't exist? Feb 05 14:06:44 anyone could help me with dbus-send? thanks Feb 05 14:07:08 hmm Feb 05 14:07:09 [sbox-FREMANTLE_ARMEL: ~/src/qemu-0.12.2/i386-linux-user] > ./qemu-i386 Feb 05 14:07:09 mmap: No such device or address Feb 05 14:11:22 Is switchboard still having issues killing MicroB simply by virtue of being installed? Feb 05 14:11:51 hi everone Feb 05 14:12:46 hello sinclair Feb 05 14:14:01 i'm having really bad issues with touch on my N900... sometimes i have to spend 5-10 seconds just pressing again and again to close programs... i have calibrated and re-calibrated but it's still extremely bad, any suggestions? Feb 05 14:14:21 are you using nail or ball of finger? Feb 05 14:14:35 ball of finger Feb 05 14:15:05 GeneralAntilles: There's a thread on tmo - new version in -testing IIRC Feb 05 14:15:26 sinclair: does the button light up, but then nothing happens? Feb 05 14:15:50 sinclair: use your nail, even gently the single point helps Feb 05 14:16:53 on an iphone you can almost not touch the screen and it detects it, on the n900 you need actual press, not much but significantly more than the iphone. Feb 05 14:17:32 even a very gentle nail will provide accuracy and will be detected Feb 05 14:17:34 sometimes it's lit when i remove my finger but usually no light response just sound Feb 05 14:19:41 during high cpu usage, some apps can take several seconds to respond to close events. it's not just that, is it? Feb 05 14:21:20 then again, try to use the iphone outside with gloves on :) Feb 05 14:23:37 koala_man: the scheduler can have a hard time sometimes, yes Feb 05 14:23:43 adeus: yeah, I didn't bother with the evangalising side of my response Feb 05 14:23:56 iPhone's touchscreen sucks :) Feb 05 14:24:13 adeus: I'm happy with resistive and miss nails working on an iphone, otoh they really do amaze me with the gentleness that works Feb 05 14:24:15 anyone who goes into the whole iphone sucks debate again gets banned for life Feb 05 14:24:26 okay I'm annoyed now, I can't even execute hello world Feb 05 14:24:34 Damion2: paste code Feb 05 14:24:39 Damion2: and compilation line Feb 05 14:25:04 crashanddie: okay, hold on. I can compile and run arm ls, and I've just compiled qemu-i386 Feb 05 14:25:16 which also runs, but it won't execute x86 ./hello Feb 05 14:25:20 despite the fact that it should Feb 05 14:25:26 don't bother with x86 Feb 05 14:25:37 this is on the n900 Feb 05 14:25:46 dude Feb 05 14:25:55 why are you trying to run x86 code on n900? Feb 05 14:25:56 I should be able to run arbitary x86 linux binaries albeit slowly on the n900 Feb 05 14:26:10 you really are sick :) Feb 05 14:26:12 not natively Feb 05 14:26:12 cos I want to run wine, this has been done on PPC Feb 05 14:26:24 Caesium: I'm glad you're following Feb 05 14:26:24 rebuild wine for arm? :) Feb 05 14:26:30 that's not possible Feb 05 14:26:34 oh it'll want ms libs that are x86? Feb 05 14:26:42 Caesium: indeed Feb 05 14:26:50 yeah didn't think before saying that. Feb 05 14:26:59 however qemu-i386 should be able to run it, this has been done before on ppc Feb 05 14:27:01 Damion2: let's go from the beginning, what exactly are you trying to achieve? Feb 05 14:27:28 I want to run wine ./notepad.exe (well actually some 1990s games) Feb 05 14:27:40 the speed, I feel will be acceptable based on dosbox'es performance Feb 05 14:27:49 I found that somebody on PPC arch was able to run x86 wine under qemu Feb 05 14:28:02 so I've tried to compile qemu for arm Feb 05 14:28:14 I had to kludge one failing builtin function Feb 05 14:28:20 it could well be my problem Feb 05 14:28:23 so you want to run windows binaries emulated by an emulator on a 600Mhz CPU? Feb 05 14:28:32 crashanddie: these were fast enough on a p90 Feb 05 14:28:39 qemu in user linux mode is quite fast Feb 05 14:28:42 you need to get into new games ;) Feb 05 14:28:43 I'm not emulating hardware and crap Feb 05 14:28:50 anyway, yes Feb 05 14:28:56 so qemu works? Feb 05 14:28:59 well it runs Feb 05 14:29:10 define runs Feb 05 14:29:13 ?:/home/opt/root# ./qemu-i386 Feb 05 14:29:13 qemu-i386 version 0.12.2, Copyright (c) 2003-2008 Fabrice Bellard Feb 05 14:29:13 usage: qemu-i386 [options] program [arguments...] Feb 05 14:29:13 Linux CPU emulator (compiled for i386 emulation) Feb 05 14:29:29 when I put ./hello as a parameter to it it segv's Feb 05 14:29:38 hello was built with gcc -o hello -static hello.c Feb 05 14:29:38 can you trace it? Feb 05 14:29:44 yeah, that's long Feb 05 14:29:51 any suggested pastebin urls? Feb 05 14:29:59 slexy.org Feb 05 14:30:53 Damion2: gcc was called from what exactly? Feb 05 14:31:26 Damion2: compiling it as static is a bad idea. Unless you intend on re-writing 3/4 of wine, obviously Feb 05 14:31:39 xorAxAx: es ist da :P Feb 05 14:32:15 Damion2: is hello 32 or 64bit? does qemu play with 64bit binaries if it's 64? Feb 05 14:32:28 crashanddie: true, but I've not got to the point where I'll be copying the libs over Feb 05 14:32:38 I don't think it's possible to make wine static anymore Feb 05 14:32:44 Caesium: 32 Feb 05 14:32:51 http://slexy.org/view/s2ITJQgCQa Feb 05 14:32:58 I think it's quite possible this IS my awful kludge Feb 05 14:33:01 133, actually Feb 05 14:33:18 DOSbox on N8x0 hit about 16MHz at optimal settings. . . . Feb 05 14:33:31 somebody compiled dosbox, I probably should try and see how they compiled qemu Feb 05 14:33:38 GeneralAntilles: oh :( Feb 05 14:33:45 oh wait on n8x0 Feb 05 14:33:45 which line does it segfault at? Feb 05 14:34:02 So, maybe, 25-40MHz on N900 Feb 05 14:34:06 Again, optimal settings. Feb 05 14:34:11 crashanddie: not sure the bottom ? Feb 05 14:34:12 Damion2: there /are/ a lot of calls to cacheflush in there, if you kludged that it seems the best place to start ;) Feb 05 14:34:16 Damion2: ah k Feb 05 14:34:27 Caesium: yeah :) Feb 05 14:34:45 I just created a void for __builtin___clear_cache and linked the .o in ;) Feb 05 14:35:44 Damion2: have you asked in qemu? Feb 05 14:35:56 no I've only _just_ started to try this Feb 05 14:36:14 Damion2: do you have __clear_cache in libgcc at all? Feb 05 14:36:25 not sure, strings it? Feb 05 14:36:28 nm Feb 05 14:36:31 oh yeah Feb 05 14:36:41 if so you could make your .o call that Feb 05 14:36:43 not had to use that in years Feb 05 14:37:58 00000000 T __clear_cache Feb 05 14:38:45 takes the same two args that __builtin___clear_cache does, just try passing it through? Feb 05 14:39:27 just call __clear_cache from my __builtin___clear_cache() ? Feb 05 14:39:28 if you don't have it, I have the freebsd assembler arm code for it ;) Feb 05 14:39:32 yeah Feb 05 14:39:43 what does 00000000 T __clear_cache mean in the nm output ? Feb 05 14:39:45 oh wait it's C Feb 05 14:40:18 what type should this be? Feb 05 14:40:33 this is going to exceed my rusty C Feb 05 14:40:37 char * Feb 05 14:41:14 how did yuo know the two args? you have code in front of you ? Feb 05 14:41:33 partly from http://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gcc/Other-Builtins.html and confirmed by freebsd /usr/src :) Feb 05 14:41:52 this is how freebsd does it: http://slexy.org/view/s20pDH3ux5 Feb 05 14:42:09 I was just looking up if sysarch() which appears to be the magic bit, is on Linux Feb 05 14:42:36 GeneralAntilles: that's pretty slow. However the win95 I've seen running wasn't THAT bad. This should be a good %age faster running notepad.exe IMO Feb 05 14:42:56 Caesium, it's a syscall, according to the comment Feb 05 14:43:03 * Caesium nods Feb 05 14:43:05 so that code is somewhat useless on Linux... Feb 05 14:43:06 sysarch — architecture‐dependent system call Feb 05 14:43:12 so we just need the equivalent on linux Feb 05 14:43:21 hell, put some embedded asm in if you can't find the C way to do it? :) Feb 05 14:43:32 the concept is the same Feb 05 14:44:08 anyway hopefully his libgcc will have __clear_cache Feb 05 14:44:12 I was just going a step ahead in case it doesn't Feb 05 14:46:09 can someone help me, i optified my /var/lib/apt/lists aby symlink and now my app manager wont update them but apt-get update will. Feb 05 14:46:17 woohoo!! Feb 05 14:46:21 Caesium: you are a star Feb 05 14:46:22 ?:/home/opt/root# ./qemu-i386-2 ./hello Feb 05 14:46:22 Hello World Feb 05 14:46:24 nice :) Feb 05 14:46:38 yeah this is kinda sweet :) Feb 05 14:46:53 ?:/home/opt/root# file hello Feb 05 14:46:53 hello: ELF 32-bit LSB executable, Intel 80386, version 1 (SYSV), for GNU/Linux 2.6.8, statically linked, stripped Feb 05 14:46:56 ?:/home/opt/root# file `which file` Feb 05 14:46:59 /usr/bin/file: ELF 32-bit LSB executable, ARM, version 1 (SYSV), for GNU/Linux 2.4.17, dynamically linked (uses shared libs), stripped Feb 05 14:47:02 ?:/home/opt/root# ./qemu-i386-2 ./hello Feb 05 14:47:04 Hello World Feb 05 14:47:06 ?:/home/opt/root# Feb 05 14:47:08 awesome Feb 05 14:47:09 we get it ;) Feb 05 14:47:15 I wonder if anyone on TMO will get it Feb 05 14:47:16 so wine now? :p Feb 05 14:47:16 yay Feb 05 14:47:33 I'll copy libs over and see if I can run random weird x86 only stuff Feb 05 14:47:37 ooh cfdisk :) Feb 05 14:47:47 then you want binfmt so you can have transparency :) Feb 05 14:47:55 perhaps start with something that might not trash your ubifs :P Feb 05 14:48:17 Damion2++ Feb 05 14:48:23 u actually got qemu to work on maemo? wow im impressed. Feb 05 14:48:51 me too, though I want to see how fast it is at doing something useful ;) Feb 05 14:49:39 thesov: well dosbox was done ages ago Feb 05 14:49:53 ooh I'll try google maps Feb 05 14:50:29 the wireless chip on n900 doesn't support ap mode, does it? Feb 05 14:50:49 satmd, it does, just a driver issue. Feb 05 14:50:52 Patches welcome, etc. Feb 05 14:50:55 oh :D Feb 05 14:50:58 now someone quick help me with my apt problem Feb 05 14:51:13 satmd: that needs a kernel >.30 Feb 05 14:51:16 :) Feb 05 14:51:26 when they added the AP stuff in to the newer wifi framework Feb 05 14:52:07 thesov: app manager may dislike symlinks, try a bind mount ala pymaemo? Feb 05 14:52:19 * Caesium dislikes bind mounts though, clutters df Feb 05 14:53:01 i have no idea what a bind mount is but i will look into it. this is my first linux system Feb 05 14:53:06 thanks Feb 05 14:53:25 * Caesium aliases df on his n900 to "df / /tmp /home/ /media/mmc1" to keep it a bit cleaner Feb 05 14:53:49 Caesium: that's a handy tip Feb 05 14:53:51 Caesium, no /home/MyDocs? Feb 05 14:54:03 oh yes, that too. Feb 05 14:54:06 mgedmin: it's Umteen GB how is it going to get full ? Feb 05 14:54:23 that's not a good reason not to keep an eye on it ;) Feb 05 14:54:40 while true; do date >> ~/MyDocs/.silently-fill-up-all-disk-space; sleep 1; done Feb 05 14:55:02 thesov: a bind mount makes a directory tree available at another place Feb 05 14:55:04 if only n900 had an x86 processor Feb 05 14:55:13 mount -o bind /somepath /someotherpath Feb 05 14:55:22 thesov: so it could have a battery life of 3 minutes! Feb 05 14:55:28 I once found a Beagle log file that was GIGABYTES of error messages trying to index the same broken file over and over again Feb 05 14:55:37 it was a fresh install, so I had maybe 70 gigs of free disk space Feb 05 14:55:41 Beagle filled it all up Feb 05 14:55:43 therock, SpeedEvil isn't joking, either. :) Feb 05 14:55:50 so why can't Tracker do something similar? Feb 05 14:55:57 Nokia-N900-42-11:~# alias Feb 05 14:55:57 df='df / /tmp /home /home/user/MyDocs /media/mmc1' Feb 05 14:55:59 thats better :) Feb 05 14:55:59 thesov: just get htc with normal x86 vista installed then :P Feb 05 14:56:45 dude look at geode uses 1 watt of power at idle Feb 05 14:56:55 therock, OMAP3 uses basically none. Feb 05 14:57:05 thesov, and gets better performance than a Geode. Feb 05 14:57:23 thesov, at absolute full blast, the N900 MIGHT use 2-2.5 watts. Feb 05 14:57:33 With every possible piece of equipment in the device on full power. Feb 05 14:57:39 Practically speaking that's impossible. Feb 05 14:57:52 Normal usage the OMAP3 uses next to nothing. Feb 05 14:58:11 x86 is in a whole different timezone as far as power consumption is concerned. Feb 05 14:58:52 So, please, don't pretend like you know something here. There's a damn good reason ARM is, by far, the most common architecture on the planet. Feb 05 14:58:52 thesov: basically, the board on which the n900 runs is able to disable specific parts of its hardware to reflect the needs Feb 05 14:58:59 thesov: just calc how big battery you will need to have if you want it to live week at idle if it drains 1W Feb 05 14:59:12 and do so several times a second. Feb 05 14:59:13 lol i guess i want a pc as a phone. Feb 05 14:59:22 good day ! Feb 05 14:59:27 GeneralAntilles: I vote troll Feb 05 14:59:35 what about the transmet... sorry I couldn't keep a straight face Feb 05 14:59:35 thesov: you might want to leave Feb 05 14:59:39 thesov, yes, now we're back to 3 minutes of battery life. Feb 05 15:00:04 yeah. oh well i like my n900 Feb 05 15:00:12 that's the spirit Feb 05 15:01:22 now gonna try to fix my apt lists thanks for advice guys Feb 05 15:01:39 "bout 98 percent of the more than one billion mobile phones sold each year use at least one ARM processor." Feb 05 15:04:22 GeneralAntilles: going to get myself a kawa er5 Feb 05 15:04:41 crashanddie, your organ donor card in order? :P Feb 05 15:05:01 on the back of the driving license Feb 05 15:06:42 ooh, I wonder if I can nfs mount and then chroot in to an x86 linux now Feb 05 15:08:10 dynamically linked execution ... Feb 05 15:08:11 ?:/home/opt/root/lib# ../qemu-i386-2 ./ld-linux.so.2 --library-path `pwd` ../ls Feb 05 15:08:11 qemu: Unsupported syscall: 240 Feb 05 15:08:11 ld-linux.so.2 libattr.so.1 libdl.so.2 librt.so.1 Feb 05 15:08:11 libacl.so.1 libc.so.6 libpthread.so.0 libselinux.so.1 Feb 05 15:08:13 ?:/home/opt/root/lib# Feb 05 15:08:31 hmm, :-} qemu: Unsupported syscall: 240 Feb 05 15:09:00 Damion2: please use a pastebin Feb 05 15:09:08 sorry Feb 05 15:09:19 again, we just went from the cute hoping to the annoying dev Feb 05 15:09:20 I thought <10 lines wasn't an issue Feb 05 15:09:26 It's 5 Feb 05 15:09:28 more than 2 lines is an issue Feb 05 15:09:34 I type fast Feb 05 15:09:38 Depending on length. :P Feb 05 15:09:45 and channel activity Feb 05 15:09:50 anyway Feb 05 15:09:52 i'm out Feb 05 15:09:53 it's deathly quiet atm Feb 05 15:09:54 so it's back to 5 Feb 05 15:09:56 Later Feb 05 15:10:32 Damion2: didn't your parents tell you not to talk back? :P Feb 05 15:11:08 anyway, 'ater Feb 05 15:19:55 hi :D Feb 05 15:26:36 Jaffa, we have any provisions for images? Feb 05 15:27:42 GeneralAntilles: No Feb 05 15:27:56 GeneralAntilles: I can could look at adding them; what's the use-case? Feb 05 15:28:10 Jaffa, I just wanted to provide a small thumbnail off to the side for Marina. Feb 05 15:28:17 GeneralAntilles: Ah. Feb 05 15:28:25 Could be useful for applications, too. Feb 05 15:28:31 GeneralAntilles: Does the image you'd want to use already exist? Feb 05 15:28:46 * Jaffa wants it to small and speedy to download/useful to read offline, though. Feb 05 15:29:14 Jaffa, maybe. Feb 05 15:29:24 I was thinking, like, 200px width. Feb 05 15:31:33 Docscrutinizer: can I use may freerunner-wallcharger for the N900? Feb 05 15:31:59 does it implement the microUSB charger spec? Feb 05 15:32:41 I do not know? it is miniusb, but with an adapter ? Feb 05 15:33:12 I use regular usb wallchargers but w/ a USB A -> microusb cable Feb 05 15:33:15 works a treat Feb 05 15:33:31 albeit my b0rked cable lacks the teeth, kinda annoying :) Feb 05 15:34:32 OK,buy Feb 05 15:34:38 WE Feb 05 15:34:45 the n900 can charege via usb? Feb 05 15:35:03 yes Feb 05 15:35:16 that's all it can charge via Feb 05 15:35:17 * mgedmin was thinking about this: http://danielwould.wordpress.com/2010/01/31/n900-charging-from-dumb-charger/ Feb 05 15:37:30 guess i realy should of gone with the n900 insted of a n800 if i had the money Feb 05 15:37:44 as dam the n800 is getign old Feb 05 15:38:08 * Caesium is hoping they'll make some hardware revisions to the N900, but unlikely I suppose Feb 05 15:38:41 I've heard far too many scary stories of the USB plug coming completely detached, so I'm super-careful with mine atm, and it'd be nice if the USB plug was at the bottom so you could actually use a dock with it, and a few other little things Feb 05 15:38:54 Bottom? Ugh Feb 05 15:39:04 have you tried having a phonecall while charging the N900? :) Feb 05 15:39:05 Then it'd be REALLY unusable plugged in. Feb 05 15:39:15 Every plug configuration has their downsides Feb 05 15:39:18 It's better up top than on the bottom. Feb 05 15:39:26 On the sides, it gets in your hands' way Feb 05 15:39:34 On the bottom it makes the stand thing unusable Feb 05 15:39:42 On the top it makes the thing unstable on any kind of dock or stand Feb 05 15:39:48 sorry I mean the "bottom" when held in portrait. Feb 05 15:39:55 We need wireless power. Feb 05 15:39:59 And comm Feb 05 15:40:05 on the back! Feb 05 15:40:07 * w00t ducks Feb 05 15:40:07 I sleep on the right and so the cable has to flop over to the left Feb 05 15:40:22 w00t: Or the middle of the screen Feb 05 15:40:30 the n97 had its at the bottom and was better on the fingers Feb 05 15:40:42 ooh it could be on the underside Feb 05 15:40:58 straight in to the battery, and batteries could be charged themselves Feb 05 15:41:35 Caesium, portrait. Pfft. Feb 05 15:41:45 batterys that charg via usb would be to convient fo charging up spairs Feb 05 15:42:24 shamus, then you'd need built-in charging circuitry. Feb 05 15:42:28 Cost, bulk, reliability. Feb 05 15:42:40 true Feb 05 15:42:56 fast cheep reliable pick 2 Feb 05 15:46:14 shamus: I was kidding, nobody will do that :) Feb 05 15:46:36 although you can get: http://www.nerve.com/CS/blogs/modernmaterialist/2008/04/usb-battery.jpg Feb 05 15:46:44 and there a joke Feb 05 15:46:54 there a joke lies? Feb 05 15:46:59 or they're a joke? Feb 05 15:47:19 the usb AA's? Feb 05 15:47:42 i have heard hore storyed as to how bad they are Feb 05 15:58:51 Anybody knows which call will set up GTK to use maemo skin in 4.x? Calling hildon_program_get_instance() from main() doesn't help, gtk still uses default look-n-feel Feb 05 16:00:05 do I need libosso or libhildon is enough for this? Feb 05 16:16:22 zap, how are you running your program? Feb 05 16:17:01 zap, if you are running it manually from command line, you should use run-standalone.sh my_program Feb 05 16:17:25 zap, otherwise the theme should "just work" in gtk+ apps Feb 05 16:20:52 sup GeneralAntilles :P Feb 05 16:22:44 Hey, rm_you. Feb 05 16:23:32 So i just got laid off from my job, and decided since i have time now i'd actually work on ABL before i have to send my phone back :P Feb 05 16:24:00 so i upgraded to the new SDK and plugged my phone in to update the firmware Feb 05 16:24:09 and the USB jack thing happened T_T Feb 05 16:24:15 so i guess i'm off to buy a new phone Feb 05 16:26:22 ripped it out, did you? Feb 05 16:26:31 lol yep Feb 05 16:26:35 totally pulled a HULK on it Feb 05 16:27:10 good thing i didn't pay for this and would be sending it back in a month anyway :P Feb 05 16:27:37 so maybe my usb cable being sans the teeth is .. a good thing? :) Feb 05 16:27:45 probably :P Feb 05 16:28:05 i guess in the meantime I can work in the SDK and give beta debs to people to test :P Feb 05 16:28:10 I can't believe they used a surface mount. Feb 05 16:28:21 rm_you, ping Quim. Feb 05 16:28:32 I think he's got some devices about. Feb 05 16:28:40 GAN900: as in opposed to ... ? Feb 05 16:28:46 lol, what good will that do? they aren't gonna send me a new device when I'd be sending it back in april? Feb 05 16:29:22 tybollt: did you read this: http://tabulacrypticum.wordpress.com/2009/12/13/connecting-on-the-surface-an-n900-risk/ ? Feb 05 16:29:38 or the followup: http://tabulacrypticum.wordpress.com/2010/02/04/does-nokia-care/ Feb 05 16:30:14 tybollt, a through-board post mount. Feb 05 16:30:20 besides, you know what Quim thinks about ABL :P lol Feb 05 16:30:29 rm_you, might be able to get a longer loan. Feb 05 16:30:38 rm_you, couldn't hurt to try Feb 05 16:30:42 i guess Feb 05 16:30:46 GAN900: more expensive, innit? :) Feb 05 16:30:51 Besides, April's still a ways away yet. Feb 05 16:31:00 was deciding whether to try to go grab another n900 Feb 05 16:31:11 or a nexus one for like $300 less Feb 05 16:31:28 hurgh Feb 05 16:31:30 lol Feb 05 16:31:32 tybollt, not by much and probably cheaper than the lost sales and repairs caused by having to replace the shit surface mount. Feb 05 16:31:44 nexis is EUR 300 less than n900? Feb 05 16:31:49 how to associate my worstation hostname to it's ip so i can just ssh username@hostname instead of username@ip from my n900? Feb 05 16:31:50 rm_you, I'll fly up there and kick your ass. Feb 05 16:31:55 lol GAN Feb 05 16:32:07 yeah i was looking forward to having my n900 at Texas Linux Fest Feb 05 16:32:09 T_T Feb 05 16:32:22 which would be cutting it close anyway as it's April 10th Feb 05 16:32:46 btw are the preprod units upgradeable to PR1.1 Feb 05 16:32:47 tybollt: n900 is still ~$500US AFAIK Feb 05 16:32:52 They're putting together a community event budget. Feb 05 16:32:54 nexus one is $179USD Feb 05 16:32:58 tybollt, yes. Feb 05 16:33:07 nice Feb 05 16:33:07 rm_you, ++contract Feb 05 16:33:11 GAN900: who is> Feb 05 16:33:21 rm_you, Texrat, afb and co Feb 05 16:33:25 GAN900: so? was gonna do that anyway Feb 05 16:33:28 ah Feb 05 16:33:32 for TX Linux fest? Feb 05 16:33:37 rm_you, so you might want to run a table. Feb 05 16:33:38 Leaked Nexus One Documents: $530 Unlocked, $180 With T-Mobile ... Feb 05 16:33:43 ^^^^engadget Feb 05 16:33:46 GAN900: cool i'll have to talk to em Feb 05 16:33:53 tybollt: it's shipping... Feb 05 16:33:57 rm_you, which gives more justification to have a device. :P Feb 05 16:33:58 tybollt: www.google.com/phone Feb 05 16:34:23 how do I get ahold of texrat anyway Feb 05 16:34:27 is that his blog? Feb 05 16:34:56 Talk PM is reliable Feb 05 16:35:20 What's the dbus recipe for setting an alarm on my roommate's N900? Feb 05 16:37:47 rofl Feb 05 16:40:45 GAN900: talkPM says he's blocking PMs Feb 05 16:41:01 anyone managed to get the "context menu" to be correctly themed using python+gtk? Feb 05 16:44:18 why i can't just ssh username@hostname instead of username@ip from my n900? Feb 05 16:44:59 your dns is not working Feb 05 16:45:01 That sounds more like a DNS problem than an SSH problem Feb 05 16:45:07 What they said. Feb 05 16:45:08 what's is hostname? domain.tld ? Feb 05 16:45:11 Your DNS is likely wrong. Feb 05 16:45:15 what's Feb 05 16:45:18 17:47 < ScribbleJ> Your DNS is likely wrong. Feb 05 16:45:18 17:47 < mikexcr> what's Feb 05 16:45:19 mikexcr: yes .. in this case Feb 05 16:45:22 ;) Feb 05 16:45:31 wrrr f*cking touchpad.. Feb 05 16:45:32 Either your phone's in the wrong network, your DNS server is borked or your hostname is wrong. Feb 05 16:45:41 see /etc/resolv.conf <: Feb 05 16:45:48 nameserver 8.8.8.8 Feb 05 16:45:49 try Feb 05 16:45:52 google dns Feb 05 16:45:56 What? Feb 05 16:46:01 Give him some useful advice. Feb 05 16:46:08 uhsf: wait, is your nokia on a wlan? or on a 3g? Feb 05 16:46:11 Like using nslookup on the commandline to see what he can resolve. Feb 05 16:46:24 and are you trying to connect over the internet? or across the network Feb 05 16:46:24 ? Feb 05 16:47:04 adalal: usb network, direct to the pc i ssh to Feb 05 16:47:20 Haaa Feb 05 16:47:36 Is that PC set up to forward your traffic and act as a firewall -- or else to serve you DNS itself? Feb 05 16:47:45 rm_you, email, maybe. Feb 05 16:48:33 i didn't set anything special Feb 05 16:48:40 Obviously, uhsf Feb 05 16:48:47 You'd have to set up dns specially in that scenario. Feb 05 16:48:51 So... that's why. Feb 05 16:49:02 uhsf: usb network? doesn't the hostname register with the dhcp to allow that? Feb 05 16:49:17 it's just a linux pc with a hostname connected to a router and i connect my n900 to this pc with usb cable Feb 05 16:49:38 uhsf, so... why should the names work then? IT sounds like you shoudl expect name resolution to fail. Feb 05 16:49:47 uhsf, what makes you think it shoudl be working? Feb 05 16:50:16 it works from my notebook to my pc Feb 05 16:50:27 Is your notebook hooked up to the PC over USB? Feb 05 16:50:33 but it's through my router Feb 05 16:50:38 So Feb 05 16:50:43 What makes you think it should be working? Feb 05 16:51:01 oh Feb 05 16:51:12 hostnames only work with the router? Feb 05 16:51:12 How is the n900 supposed to magically get DNS information? Feb 05 16:51:15 just a usb connection?!.. that's weird... Feb 05 16:51:28 uhsf, hostnames only work with DNS. Now, what DNS server can your n900 talk to? Feb 05 16:51:30 None of them. Feb 05 16:51:35 So hw is it supposed to resolve names? Feb 05 16:51:37 It's not. Feb 05 16:51:37 just a normal usb connection wouldn't make a network connection Feb 05 16:51:47 Give it a DNS server. Like, for instance, put dnsmasq on your pc Feb 05 16:52:05 Now, can anyone explain to me why the oak tree in my yard doesn't grow golden bricks? Feb 05 16:52:21 i wish i had a router with a usb port but none of them seems to support dd-wrt Feb 05 16:52:32 hi guys, anyone else expierience problems with their mircro sd card & n900? mine is in and gets shown correctly on my mac (vfat format) when i connect the phone using the cable, but when the phone is in regular mode, it doesnt recognise the card Feb 05 16:53:29 so i have to run a dns server on my pc even if i already have one in my router Feb 05 16:53:46 uhsf, or else configure your pc to forward the traffic apprpriatelyt. Feb 05 16:53:51 You're kind of new to computers I take it. Feb 05 16:54:33 Yes, because DNS is Computers 101. . . . Feb 05 16:54:47 i'm new with some things, not new with others Feb 05 16:54:58 GeneralAntilles, I think the basic problem he is having is not understanding that his n900 has to be able to communicate with his router to get dns from it. Feb 05 16:55:12 That sort of ... these two things are not connected issue... is below computers 101. Feb 05 16:55:24 security and networking is something i don't like so i just set it once and forget about it Feb 05 16:55:25 ScribbleJ, you've lost touch with reality. Feb 05 16:55:32 That's probably true. Feb 05 16:55:38 I would say it should work out of the box Feb 05 16:55:42 But you shoudl see the view from my ivory tower. Feb 05 16:55:44 It's /awesome/. Feb 05 16:55:50 lost problem with reality, hehe. Feb 05 16:56:00 I keep wondering just how far away from reality I'm getting right now. Feb 05 16:56:02 connecting an openmoko to my laptop did work out of the box, with network manager having a 'shared' wired connection setup Feb 05 16:56:21 haven't tried the n900 in such a setup, given it gets along with my wireless router just fine, though Feb 05 16:56:40 uhsf, are you using network manager in your laptop? Feb 05 16:56:54 anyone expierienceing problems with microsd cards on n900? Feb 05 16:57:10 I am, naxxatoe. Feb 05 16:57:22 The problem I'm having is; the big ones are expensive. Feb 05 16:57:47 lol Feb 05 16:57:51 i have tried a 4 gig one Feb 05 16:58:01 and it doesnt work -.- Feb 05 16:58:23 cool thing is Feb 05 16:58:32 when i connect my phone using the cable Feb 05 16:58:36 the card shows up on the pc Feb 05 16:58:41 GeneralAntilles: my 'losing touch of reality' case: connect4 is now 894 lines of code, and nearly multiplayer. it can already cope with variable size boards and variable numbers of players.. Feb 05 16:58:42 but its never recognised by the phone Feb 05 16:59:04 any ideas? Feb 05 16:59:12 What format parititon is on it, naxxatoe ? Feb 05 16:59:19 I mean... filesystme. Feb 05 16:59:22 vfat, but i tried ext2 and ext3 befor Feb 05 16:59:26 GeneralAntilles: Aight, I sent him an email via Talk, so we'll see. Feb 05 16:59:34 what would you recommend? Feb 05 16:59:53 w00t, as long as you have enough perspective to see it. *g* Feb 05 17:00:50 GeneralAntilles: I just know that it's totally and utterly spiralling out of control. Though I must admit I do look forward to playing a 10 player game on a 100x100 grid. Feb 05 17:00:55 Well, I'm pretty sure the N900 builtin tools expect it to be vfat but beyond that I know nothing. Feb 05 17:01:06 well its vfat Feb 05 17:01:09 I bought a 16gb uSD, put it in, and it worked, didn't do anything else. :) Feb 05 17:01:21 ScribbleJ: lucker Feb 05 17:01:27 mine doesnt bloody work -.- Feb 05 17:01:32 at lest not on de device itself Feb 05 17:01:38 If I were in your shoesd. Feb 05 17:02:09 ? Feb 05 17:02:22 I guess I would start... what? dmesg? You can't put in/out the card while the N900 is running so that's less helpful. There's no fdisk, on the n900, is there? Feb 05 17:02:39 I dunno. I'm going to go shower and let someone who isn't wildly speculating help. :P Feb 05 17:03:26 ScribbleJ, since when can't you hotswap it? Feb 05 17:03:44 Oh Feb 05 17:03:49 driver sd needs updating Feb 05 17:03:51 ScribbleJ, the SIM is under the batt. Feb 05 17:03:53 I'm thinking of my SIM card. I put them all in there once and forgot about it. Feb 05 17:03:53 in case that helps Feb 05 17:03:54 Yeah Feb 05 17:04:17 from dmesg Feb 05 17:04:18 So maybe you pulli t out, put it in, see what output of dmesg says, just to get started? Feb 05 17:05:53 nothing -.- Feb 05 17:06:01 i see mmc0: card 0007 is removed Feb 05 17:06:04 when i put it bakc in Feb 05 17:06:06 nothing Feb 05 17:06:11 naxxatoe|mbp, you didn't partition it with an Apple partition map did you? Feb 05 17:06:27 nope i didnt Feb 05 17:06:33 partitioned it on windows Feb 05 17:06:35 just to be secure Feb 05 17:10:50 adding in /etc/hosts solved my problem. you could have told me just this instead of going through a huge dns/firewall discussion and i would've understand Feb 05 17:14:23 hi Feb 05 17:15:01 In retrospect, that's obviously a good solution, uhsf, I didn't think of it because typically using /etc/hosts for dns is a bad idea. Feb 05 17:15:05 as i heard of these law rambles involving nintendo emulators on n900... porting vba is not illegal, isn't it? has nobody done it before? Feb 05 17:15:15 But for you it's a good choice since you're only connecting to your PC anyhow, who cares? Feb 05 17:15:23 LuciusMare, no, it's not illegal. Feb 05 17:15:31 LuciusMare, VGBA is available in Extras. Feb 05 17:17:09 oh Feb 05 17:17:16 i didnt see it Feb 05 17:17:17 >_> Feb 05 17:19:32 * Stskeeps yawns Feb 05 17:20:38 i'm trying to set up synergy but synergyc on the n900 gives error while loading shared libraries: libXinerama.so.1: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory Feb 05 17:20:55 Lucretia lucretia Feb 05 17:21:10 my future girlfriend Feb 05 17:21:10 rs Feb 05 17:21:30 * VDVsx sends more drinks to Stskeeps :D Feb 05 17:22:09 Stskeeps, defended? Feb 05 17:22:56 apt-get install libxinerama, complain to whoever made synergy package for maemo Feb 05 17:24:04 GeneralAntilles: and passed Feb 05 17:24:23 Stskeeps, woo. Feb 05 17:24:24 ShadowJK: i tried apt-get install libxinerama already. Couldn't find package libxinerama Feb 05 17:24:40 has somebody here ran mythtv on n900 ? Feb 05 17:25:04 ShadowJK: there is no package it's just a binary Feb 05 17:25:45 does the N900 support 16GB or 32GB on the external card? Feb 05 17:25:55 Dassu, no need; mythtv does dlna/upnp, no? Feb 05 17:25:56 lol, go figure I actually need to do some degree of implementing MMS for pay-work XD Feb 05 17:26:09 Although dlna is busted in pr1.1 Feb 05 17:26:22 is it? Feb 05 17:26:28 mythtv on the n900? what's the use without tv tuner? Feb 05 17:26:40 ScribbleJ: hmm Feb 05 17:26:49 ssh: connect to host gitorious.org port 22: Connection refused Feb 05 17:26:50 doh! Feb 05 17:26:55 ScribbleJ: I have never used those O_o can you give me an exmaple how they would work? Feb 05 17:26:59 uhsf: I imagine he means the client Feb 05 17:27:00 Yes, no video. Well, it freezes on the first frame. There's a bug report in, says is fixed is 1.2 Feb 05 17:27:13 ah, alrite. i think i've only listened to music. Feb 05 17:27:28 uhsf: the video is of course streamed through the internet :D Feb 05 17:27:31 Dassu, connect to lan, go to media player, find mythtb listed at bottom magically. Feb 05 17:27:49 uhsf: that's the beauty of hte mythtv. It only needs one machine for recording Feb 05 17:28:09 Over net, mythweb has flash streaming that might work.. have not tried. Feb 05 17:28:28 Used to work great on my laptop though. Feb 05 17:28:34 VLC works fine as a streaming flv server too Feb 05 17:28:46 mythtv is so huge for the n900. mysql, qt, etc. when mplayer can do the same Feb 05 17:28:59 eh... not gonna use VLC as I already have darwin that I used for streaming over 3G Feb 05 17:29:07 but mythtv on N900 is required for wlan use Feb 05 17:29:12 uhsf, he'd only put the clioent on, presumably. Feb 05 17:29:27 uhsf: clients require MySQL? Qt should be standard on any system. Feb 05 17:29:35 why the limit to 16GB on the external microSD (if it's indeed correct)? or can I use a 32GB microSD? Feb 05 17:29:44 don't think they exist? Feb 05 17:29:46 uhsf: it doesn't require mysql since that can ran on the server Feb 05 17:29:50 hi everyone Feb 05 17:29:59 ooh they do Feb 05 17:30:04 * Caesium will buy one and try it Feb 05 17:30:09 uhsf: only thing that is needed is ssh (for tunnels) and then the mythfrontend and qt also Feb 05 17:30:10 anyone here tried repartitioning their n900? Feb 05 17:30:19 angasule: ah pre-order :( Feb 05 17:30:28 uhsf: well, apt-cache search reveals a libxinerama1 Feb 05 17:30:35 i still prefer mplayer. which can do the same Feb 05 17:30:48 I have problem with partition and device names Feb 05 17:30:56 uhsf: do the same? O_o Feb 05 17:31:11 like, play files? Feb 05 17:31:19 every player can do that, i suppose Feb 05 17:31:23 angasule: it's only tested with 16 becuse no 32g cards existed Feb 05 17:31:25 I guess it can't really show program guide, list recordings and stream them with rewind support Feb 05 17:31:29 at least that's usually what they're meant for. Feb 05 17:31:30 when I do 'cat /proc/partitions', I get mmcblk0p1, mmcblk1p1, mmcblk1p2, mmcblk1p3 Feb 05 17:31:31 and also the live tv Feb 05 17:31:33 maybe you'll be the first. Feb 05 17:31:48 MythTV runs on N900 that's for sure. But I haven't manage to do that Feb 05 17:31:57 but when I do 'ls /dev/mmc*', I get: mmcblk0p1, mmcblk0p2, mmcblk0p3, mmcblk1p1 Feb 05 17:32:05 Mine segfaults at the startup Feb 05 17:32:17 maromader: there's some crazy renaming going om :) Feb 05 17:32:30 cehteh: dont you want to join #dwimd? Feb 05 17:32:40 /dev/mmcblk1p1 is probably microsd Feb 05 17:32:41 mplayer -tv will play any streams from my tuner card that has uhf antennas plugged in directly Feb 05 17:32:51 ShadowJK, yeah, and I can't mount some partitions because of that Feb 05 17:33:04 huh. Feb 05 17:33:22 ty ShadowJK i'm relearning debian everyday now Feb 05 17:33:47 I've reflashed with vanilla and pr1.1, still the same Feb 05 17:34:01 yes my device has it too Feb 05 17:34:03 haven't touched the disk partitions yet Feb 05 17:34:17 when I check with sfdisk, partitions look ok Feb 05 17:34:19 aw. wiicontrol is not exactly what i wanted, i am more fammiliar with wminput actually - do you think it will take some code editing? Feb 05 17:34:43 ahah i got synergy working! Feb 05 17:34:49 Well Feb 05 17:35:25 I guess. I dont need mythtv that much although it would be really cool. Feb 05 17:35:27 ShadowJK, in /etc/fstab for example, mmcblk0p2 is mounted as /home, and in 'mount' that's correct Feb 05 17:35:50 but according to /proc/partitions mmcblk0p2 does not exist Feb 05 17:35:52 so I won't fix that problem :/ Feb 05 17:35:53 my cursor and keyboard is now going seemlessly back and forth from my pc, notebook, freerunner, and n900 now! Feb 05 17:36:11 I hadn't noticed the N900 has an IR transceiver Feb 05 17:36:16 I only quickly read through the init process, but I think fstab is mostly ignored Feb 05 17:37:08 Btw, does the default media player have a "search for tracks in a playlist" feature? Feb 05 17:37:10 ok, I'll try repartitioning one more time using Ruskie's method and see what happens Feb 05 17:38:58 the only annoying thing is that synergy doesn't wake the n900 display Feb 05 17:39:26 so i still have to trigger the lock switch to see anything Feb 05 17:40:11 uhsf, set it to not turn off the backlight when connected to power? Feb 05 17:43:48 Display stays lit when charging FTW! Feb 05 17:46:22 Dassu: if I'm not mistaken mythfrontend will require the mysql client libs since it makes a direct connection to the db, but I could be completely wrong... Feb 05 17:54:59 ok, I don't know what to do now. there is file /dev/mmcblk0p6, but in /proc/partitions there's mmcblk1p6. When I do 'mount /dev/mmcblk0p6 /mnt' I get: Invalid argument. when i do the same with mmcblk1p6, I get No such file or directory. any suggestions? Feb 05 17:55:27 Maybe I'll make symlink... Feb 05 17:56:10 no, I get 'Invalid argument' Feb 05 17:56:22 hehe, symlink won't do Feb 05 17:56:34 what is the output of ls -l /dev/mmcblk0p6? Feb 05 17:56:47 brw-rw---- 1 root floppy 179, 14 Feb 5 18:49 /dev/mmcblk0p6 Feb 05 17:57:26 mmh, now if I remembered the mknod numbers for mmcblk... Feb 05 17:57:45 basically you need mknod b MAJOR MINOR /dev/mmcblk1p6 Feb 05 17:57:53 but I don't know MAJOR/MINOR Feb 05 17:58:06 MAKEDEV will help? Feb 05 17:58:18 might help yeah Feb 05 17:58:21 or any tips with udev? Feb 05 17:58:23 cd /dev ; MAKEDEV mmc Feb 05 17:58:27 mh Feb 05 17:58:40 udevadm trigger ... but I don't know yet if that exists Feb 05 17:58:50 Nokia-N900-51-1:/dev# MAKEDEV mmc Feb 05 17:58:51 .udevdb presence implies active udev. Aborting MAKEDEV invocation. Feb 05 17:59:40 udevadm trigger shows nothing... Feb 05 17:59:55 it never does ;) Feb 05 18:00:06 so, maybe I'll reboot and see what happens? Feb 05 18:00:12 it will trigger creation of node files Feb 05 18:00:19 did it create mmcblk1p6? Feb 05 18:00:26 no Feb 05 18:00:29 :( Feb 05 18:00:37 then maybe reboot Feb 05 18:00:41 ok Feb 05 18:00:55 here goes nothing... Feb 05 18:01:56 yeah, I thought so. already changed fstab, and /usr is empty, so n900 won't boot. time for another reflash Feb 05 18:02:28 I'll try repartitioning on vanilla this time Feb 05 18:08:12 good luck Feb 05 18:09:14 well, after reflash with vanilla ssh was already installed... any way to completely wipe the n900 and have it as it came in the package? Feb 05 18:09:50 and when I check without reflashing pr1.1, it still has bug with mmcblk0 in /proc/partitions = mmcblk1 in /dev/mmc* Feb 05 18:10:10 I have no idea why it worked the first time i tried repartitioning Feb 05 18:10:33 but I know how to beat this :> Feb 05 18:10:48 I'll remove the microsd and see what happens Feb 05 18:12:16 hello from brusel Feb 05 18:12:38 oh, Poland here btw :-) Feb 05 18:12:46 no Feb 05 18:13:01 I am from germany Feb 05 18:13:13 but I will attend fosdem Feb 05 18:13:32 germany, poland... this won't end well Feb 05 18:13:48 don't worry, war ended long time ago ;) Feb 05 18:16:19 the vanilla only flashes the emmc, you shall flash the firmware, too Feb 05 18:16:23 (taken from the wiki) Feb 05 18:16:57 yeah, i flashed with vanilla, then with pr1.1 Feb 05 18:17:04 give me a second Feb 05 18:17:34 then there shouldn't be sshd running Feb 05 18:17:49 correct Feb 05 18:18:37 random guess I take... it is booting from another place? Feb 05 18:18:55 I'll know in a minutr Feb 05 18:18:57 minute Feb 05 18:19:29 so, vanilla only flashes /home? Feb 05 18:20:22 hey, according to powertop FBReader wakes up once per second! Feb 05 18:20:29 btw, anyone using scratchbox on Lucid? Feb 05 18:20:36 but I turned off its clock in the indicator line, which was supposed to fix that! Feb 05 18:20:48 I have the vdso = 0 problem, as if it didn't work Feb 05 18:21:03 mgedmin, it checks if you perhaps turned the clock on ;-) Feb 05 18:21:42 anyway ~60% of time is spent in C3 state, only 30% in C4 Feb 05 18:22:09 satmd, good news, now I have only mmcblk0* everywhere, this should work out fine :) Feb 05 18:22:21 :) Feb 05 18:22:30 mmcblk1 would be a sd card Feb 05 18:22:33 dunno what happened Feb 05 18:22:39 yeah, I know Feb 05 18:24:53 any estimations on how many times I can make reflashes and repartitioning before drives wear out? Feb 05 18:25:17 half year? Feb 05 18:25:37 up until the warranty runs out Feb 05 18:25:50 10000-100000 times? If it is some ordinary flash Feb 05 18:27:25 btw, there were interesting effects when I repartitioned the first time without backing up /home/user - there were no flash or other plugins in microb, images from all the filesystem would show up in gallery, etc. Feb 05 18:27:51 looks like system isn't self contained - when you clean /home/user, it won't re-initialize it with defaults Feb 05 18:28:26 * satmd wiped the .qf that way Feb 05 18:28:30 unlucky me Feb 05 18:29:02 typically you would flash the mmc image for that Feb 05 18:29:15 I wonder how publically available it is Feb 05 18:29:45 it's the vanilla image Feb 05 18:29:59 ah, so you got it already Feb 05 18:30:00 you can grab it from the official images page Feb 05 18:30:04 yeah Feb 05 18:30:12 and it doesn't work for you? Feb 05 18:30:24 oh, it works now Feb 05 18:30:31 is google transliteration supposed to work in n900 browser? Feb 05 18:30:43 there was problem with mismathed devices when I had microsd plugged in Feb 05 18:30:50 ah Feb 05 18:32:14 original /home/user has almost 600 MB of data included, sheesh Feb 05 18:32:40 unless I accidentally made a synlink loop somewhere :) Feb 05 18:35:36 so today i managed to do all my office work ok my N900 Feb 05 18:35:40 *on Feb 05 18:35:43 without my laptop Feb 05 18:35:43 lol Feb 05 18:35:53 gratz :) Feb 05 18:35:55 :) Feb 05 18:36:14 yeah i left my laptop at my hotel room by accident Feb 05 18:36:20 i ended up using my N900 as my main computer Feb 05 18:36:28 lol Feb 05 18:36:34 I predict you will do that more often :) Feb 05 18:36:36 A slightly better keyboard would be nice generally Feb 05 18:36:46 lol Feb 05 18:36:56 * luke-jr decided last night that he won't get a handheld with under 4" display <.< Feb 05 18:36:58 if only the battery life would be better Feb 05 18:36:58 other than that most stuff is workable if not great Feb 05 18:36:59 I tried kinetic dscrolling on my n810 Feb 05 18:37:23 luke-jr, how big n900 is? Feb 05 18:37:35 3.5 afaik Feb 05 18:37:40 siriusnova, try offline mode some time :) Feb 05 18:37:56 the N900 screams for being online Feb 05 18:37:58 800x480 anyway Feb 05 18:38:05 i dont get why Nokia includes such a gimpy battery Feb 05 18:38:16 luke-jr, you can always connect tv or projector ;) Feb 05 18:38:17 for a web tablet that screams online with skype, instant mesaging and email Feb 05 18:38:25 maromader: not really Feb 05 18:38:46 N900 = 3.5" 800x480 Feb 05 18:39:16 C760 = 4.1" 640x480 Feb 05 18:39:23 luke-jr, get a zooming lens Feb 05 18:39:30 mgedmin: ... Feb 05 18:39:37 * mgedmin is reminded of the movie Brazil Feb 05 18:41:15 who is luke-jr Feb 05 18:41:21 o Feb 05 18:41:23 wrong irc Feb 05 18:41:24 :) Feb 05 18:41:46 ... Feb 05 18:41:48 anyway i heard someone was making an extended battery pack for the N900 Feb 05 18:41:49 mugen i believe Feb 05 18:41:52 ~luke-jr Feb 05 18:41:54 http://maemo-sdk.garage.maemo.org/download/rootstrap-index/ Feb 05 18:42:09 shouldn't that have fremantle too? Feb 05 18:44:14 blah Feb 05 18:44:30 just maemo-sdk bug it appears Feb 05 18:50:34 anyone with massive amount of applications from all repositories? Feb 05 18:50:49 ? Feb 05 18:50:57 I've only got around 30 Feb 05 18:51:12 moo. Feb 05 18:51:20 moo Feb 05 18:51:20 I'm interested in your du -sh /* Feb 05 18:51:35 me! Feb 05 18:51:52 show me directories with most used space Feb 05 18:52:00 hms Feb 05 18:52:03 I think around 5MB for /etc Feb 05 18:52:08 how much for /var? Feb 05 18:52:19 should it be on it's own partition? Feb 05 18:52:20 /home/user/horseporn 84838438 Feb 05 18:52:25 have tomy ntbooks updates are through Feb 05 18:52:38 62.7M in /var Feb 05 18:52:51 bu to th beern810 Feb 05 18:52:56 args Feb 05 18:53:17 apt and cache stuff Feb 05 18:53:18 I have the way revent now on n810 Feb 05 18:54:02 gah /root 60MB Feb 05 18:54:03 ffs Feb 05 18:54:04 Noia Feb 05 18:54:06 Nokia Feb 05 18:54:24 :| Feb 05 18:54:26 siriusnova, always something new, huh? :-) Feb 05 18:54:32 siriusnova: odd. Feb 05 18:54:34 siriusnova, du -sh /root/* Feb 05 18:54:41 well i meant / Feb 05 18:54:43 :p Feb 05 18:54:47 oh Feb 05 18:55:03 and im being deliberately cautious and cleaning up after apps Feb 05 18:55:18 join #navit Feb 05 18:55:26 Nokia deserves a kick in the gonads for designing a Linux based device with ~70MB free / Feb 05 18:56:33 and as for repartitioning wthout microsd... mount: mounting /dev/mmcblk0p6 on /tmp/usr failed: Invalid argument Feb 05 18:56:37 W. T. F. Feb 05 18:56:38 it wasnt that bad an issue in os2008 though Feb 05 18:56:40 It's not quite simple. Feb 05 18:56:42 ( should it be on it's own partition?) Feb 05 18:56:44 the gonad kicking has proceeded for quite a while already Feb 05 18:56:47 ~optification Feb 05 18:56:49 hmm... optification is a botch to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the partitioning is FUBAR Feb 05 18:56:51 There are good reasons for 256M / Feb 05 18:57:01 dockane_, I like FHS Feb 05 18:57:06 You can't partition a 256M root device Feb 05 18:57:11 s dockane_ / DocScrutinizer Feb 05 18:57:16 well - you can - but only smaller Feb 05 18:57:20 Hey, check out my new Toyota keyboaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa Feb 05 18:57:23 :-) Feb 05 18:57:27 lol Feb 05 18:57:28 what's the file where power button menu is defined? Feb 05 18:57:29 maromader: I think /var, /usr, /tmp etc should have own partitions Feb 05 18:57:40 DocScrutinizer, trying to do exaclty that Feb 05 18:58:02 well, /tmp is by default in RAM, thank god Feb 05 18:58:08 i dont see why in this day and age we need multiple partitions on a consumer device Feb 05 18:58:16 has anyone sync'ed his n900 using msynctool from his pc?? I keep getting a not-googleable "error while connecting: Not a start node" Feb 05 18:58:17 with 1 mb Feb 05 18:58:24 im not going to be swapping out chips with a new rootfs or /usr Feb 05 18:58:26 :p Feb 05 18:58:37 heh, can anybody tell me where to find powertop please? Feb 05 18:58:54 doc sudo gainroot Feb 05 18:58:57 siriusnova: because big flashdisks are slow, small flashdisks are fast, so they partition the core stuff on the small one Feb 05 18:58:59 DocScrutinizer someone uploaded it to t.m.o Feb 05 18:59:02 powertop Feb 05 18:59:07 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=491333 Feb 05 18:59:08 herm Feb 05 18:59:14 thanks Feb 05 18:59:26 infobot, powertop is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=491333 Feb 05 18:59:27 okay, mgedmin Feb 05 18:59:29 cool Feb 05 18:59:31 ~powertop Feb 05 18:59:32 i guess powertop is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=491333 Feb 05 18:59:47 siriusnova: that's at least the idea behind it... they still messed it up a bit, but anyway Feb 05 18:59:48 no, I'm pretty sure it's http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=491333 Feb 05 18:59:55 infobot, powertop is can be downloaded from http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=491333 Feb 05 18:59:56 ...but powertop is already something else... Feb 05 19:00:07 and also that didn't make grammatical sense Feb 05 19:00:08 is can be Feb 05 19:00:15 infobot, powertop is available from http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=491333 Feb 05 19:00:16 ...but powertop is already something else... Feb 05 19:00:28 ohh, I found the bug, ha! :-) Feb 05 19:00:31 this is where my bot-fu is insufficient Feb 05 19:01:20 infobot, no, powertop is foo Feb 05 19:01:21 okay, flux Feb 05 19:01:46 infobot, no, powertop is available from http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=491333 Feb 05 19:01:47 okay, flux Feb 05 19:02:03 ~powertop Feb 05 19:02:05 i heard powertop is available from http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=491333 Feb 05 19:03:17 .zip - fsck Feb 05 19:03:55 what, i need user account to use ovi store? :-( Feb 05 19:03:58 cba Feb 05 19:04:21 Shadikka, Nokia is still learning, give them a break :) Feb 05 19:05:11 * ShadowJK was scrolling up looking for shadik... and then realized Feb 05 19:05:45 which genius suggested to *zip* it??? :-( Feb 05 19:05:59 DocScrutinizer: hallo Feb 05 19:06:06 hi onen|openBmap Feb 05 19:06:51 docscrutinizer: So this is why someone would call it a cesspool Feb 05 19:06:55 well miniunzip is available :) Feb 05 19:07:01 * DocScrutinizer mumbles evil swearwords while figuring how to install friggin uzip Feb 05 19:07:17 but that's still better than the "advanced" packaging of emacs Feb 05 19:07:17 DocScrutinizer: sth came to my mind. I was thinking I could start porting my logger to maemo, using the sdk, even if I don't have the hardware. Do you think it sounds realistic (regarding sdk tools, python support, pythton-glib support, emulator(?) ) Feb 05 19:07:20 idiocy Feb 05 19:07:56 onen|openBmap: well I think it should be feasible Feb 05 19:08:17 your what? Feb 05 19:08:19 logger? Feb 05 19:08:27 though I dunno how much useful info you actually may gather from modem Feb 05 19:08:35 DocScrutinizer: ok, good. I will try to see what I can do :-) Feb 05 19:08:49 ShadowJK: openbmap Feb 05 19:08:58 DocScrutinizer: yes I know. but I wil lbe ready then for the day a real gsm api is available ;-) Feb 05 19:09:35 * ShadowJK suspects ofono is the best you'll get Feb 05 19:09:35 onen|openBmap: check out pnatd Feb 05 19:10:03 ShadowJK: gsm + gps logging, in order to build a free to use database of measures. This can be used for computing the coverage of gsm cells, and then display them on a map, get your latitude/longitude position from gsm signal, etc. Feb 05 19:10:39 DocScrutinizer: don't hold your breath though, time is scarce these days :-( Feb 05 19:10:42 is there a bug asking for a powertop deb? Feb 05 19:10:56 DocScrutinizer: but I will try to go ahead regularly Feb 05 19:11:01 ~powertop Feb 05 19:11:02 somebody said powertop was available from http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=491333 Feb 05 19:11:10 I havealogger that logs cell info Feb 05 19:11:19 oh I wrote a CellID+signalstrength+gpslocation logger in python on S60 for fun once :) Feb 05 19:11:20 however - I can't redistribute Feb 05 19:11:48 SpeedEvil: ShadowJK: www.openbmap.org Feb 05 19:12:13 onen|openBmap: you ever looked at http://www.skyhookwireless.com/howitworks/ ? Feb 05 19:12:45 onen|openBmap: no - nokia survey app Feb 05 19:12:51 DocScrutinizer: skyhookwireless, IIRC data are not free Feb 05 19:12:59 yep Feb 05 19:13:24 DocScrutinizer: so what did you want to point me with them exactly? Feb 05 19:13:57 onen|openBmap: just to look how it's done elsewhere. Maybe get some new ideas, or whatever Feb 05 19:14:26 SpeedEvil: if you want to develop or port existing logging client, I will bring you all the support I can ;-) Feb 05 19:15:08 onen|openBmap: naah - I have a binary 'log all system activity and report back to nokia' installed Feb 05 19:15:15 I can;t redistribute this Feb 05 19:15:23 DocScrutinizer: ah ok. sure. From time to time I look at others. But sometimes it also "orientates" your thinking, and you are stuck because you cannot legally copy the method. Feb 05 19:15:31 SpeedEvil: what's this crap??? Feb 05 19:16:05 ok, the bug with mount /dev/mmcblk0p1: Invalid argument was in /etc/fstab - /dev/mmcblk0p1 was already configured there as /usr, and because it wasn't a remount or bind, system threw up an arror Feb 05 19:16:08 ShadowJK: same proposal to you, if you are interested in developping/porting a logging application for maemo... Feb 05 19:16:29 fix is to mount mmcblk0p6 before making changes in /etc/fstab Feb 05 19:16:33 I don't have the spare time unfortunately :( Feb 05 19:16:37 DocScrutinizer: calm down, Doc, he meant report everything to google ;-) Feb 05 19:17:03 ShadowJK: I know too well this issue :-( Feb 05 19:17:11 onen|openBmap: no - nokia Feb 05 19:17:23 SpeedEvil: just joking Feb 05 19:17:31 ok guys I am off. bye Feb 05 19:17:54 DocScrutinizer: it's a risk I accept - and have straced it - it doesn't seem to be doinbg anything too bad. And hte logs are cleartext. Feb 05 19:17:58 SpeedEvil: any way you could elaborate on this intriguing story? Feb 05 19:18:38 sounds like he was given a debugging tool to debug some bug Feb 05 19:18:39 SpeedEvil: as on "why, where from, who, w*..." Feb 05 19:18:47 DocScrutinizer: I got an email to the address on my nokia.co.uk order. This invited me to participate in a program to do UI research. I install app, and after several weeks, get 50 quid voucher. Feb 05 19:19:11 ah, research! Feb 05 19:19:12 damn Feb 05 19:19:26 okay Feb 05 19:19:34 time for beerevent now Feb 05 19:19:40 till later maybee Feb 05 19:19:41 SpeedEvil, if it bricks your phone beyond reflashing, will the give you new one? Feb 05 19:19:45 SpeedEvil, please use more xterm and vim, I want nokia UI designers to optimize for those use cases Feb 05 19:19:51 time for weekend dinner event here Feb 05 19:19:57 e.g. the current VKB is just horrible for vim Feb 05 19:21:42 anybody thinks alarm indicator should be located in other indicators area rather than near the clock? Feb 05 19:21:51 Ahh the FOSDEM beer event? I remember it well Feb 05 19:21:59 or rather, I remember bits and pieces of it, rest is a blur Feb 05 19:22:32 SpeedEvil: please type in many IP addresses Feb 05 19:22:45 (this thread of conversation is ludicrous) Feb 05 19:22:57 http://www.mauve.plus.com/log.xml - what it logs Feb 05 19:28:29 #!/scratchbox/tools/bin/perl -w Feb 05 19:28:39 .. what scratchbox do to people Feb 05 19:29:09 what's scratchbox? Feb 05 19:29:17 some kind of chroot system? Feb 05 19:29:22 something that keeps me awake at night Feb 05 19:29:23 maromader: maemo development environment Feb 05 19:29:29 chroot, yes Feb 05 19:29:29 oh Feb 05 19:29:31 nice Feb 05 19:30:09 I think it supports x86 and qemu Feb 05 19:30:16 but the other of those was not very well functional Feb 05 19:34:21 Hello, there, of late the mouse mode on my n900 browser seems to have disappeared, when i swipe from left to right the whole page moves, any idea what might be wrong Feb 05 19:34:42 alexj_, installed any plugins? Feb 05 19:34:55 user the meamo-geolocation Feb 05 19:34:57 nothing else Feb 05 19:35:16 alexj_, maybe try uninstalling it and see what happens? Feb 05 19:35:24 ok sure Feb 05 19:35:31 will give it a try, thanks Feb 05 19:38:39 alexj_, are you swiping in the right place? Feb 05 19:38:46 it only works near the bottom of the screen afaiu Feb 05 19:39:13 yeah i am swiping at the bottom Feb 05 19:39:23 even after uninstall it doesnt work Feb 05 19:39:30 something is weird Feb 05 19:40:47 when on 3G with no usage the battery brains very fast Feb 05 19:42:19 reflash everything Feb 05 19:42:32 ok, planning to do that today Feb 05 19:42:38 ? Feb 05 19:42:41 do the emmc too Feb 05 19:42:53 reflashing now helps against batt drainage? :) Feb 05 19:43:29 tybollt: when you have a runaway process and scewed up rc files sure it does Feb 05 19:44:32 yay Feb 05 19:44:34 runaway procs Feb 05 19:44:47 asj_: really do i have to reflash emmc too Feb 05 19:44:50 which order ? Feb 05 19:45:46 alexj_: it's either that or drop to the command line and find out what's broken by using some good linux admin skills Feb 05 19:45:54 alexj_: order shouldn't mater Feb 05 19:45:56 HMMM any way of forwarding specific numbers? Feb 05 19:46:00 or rejecting them ? Feb 05 19:46:58 i thought only my home directory contents are on the emmc Feb 05 19:47:43 aah my .profile files might be causing something for the battery drain Feb 05 19:47:43 ? Feb 05 19:48:13 alexj_, have you looked with top whether there are any apps running? Feb 05 19:48:28 yes i have and no apps are running Feb 05 19:48:29 e.g. the thumbnailer might have gone amok indexing everything under your home directory Feb 05 19:48:38 did powertop give any hints? Feb 05 19:48:40 i even rebooted my phone Feb 05 19:48:56 ok i dont have powertop but rather i have htop Feb 05 19:49:09 htop is fine for finding active stuff Feb 05 19:49:26 htop kills ur battery :D Feb 05 19:49:46 Matthew-: i just fired it up Feb 05 19:49:53 alexj_: ah ok Feb 05 19:49:54 :) Feb 05 19:49:57 alexj_: use console -> top Feb 05 19:49:58 ;-) Feb 05 19:50:12 ~powertop Feb 05 19:50:13 somebody said powertop was available from http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=491333 Feb 05 19:50:24 I just stared at htop's output and it said my n900 was idle Feb 05 19:50:25 weird, already starting using swap since memory is full Feb 05 19:50:33 but powertop told me FBReader did 1 wakeup per second Feb 05 19:50:41 and the phone is not running any app Feb 05 19:50:47 aah Feb 05 19:50:48 iirc the n900 starts using swap just after boot Feb 05 19:51:01 well shortly after Feb 05 19:51:03 I was pleasantly surprised to find it working snappily with a few hundred megs of swap used Feb 05 19:51:16 well, okay, a couple hundred Feb 05 19:51:18 because most of the swapped stuff is not the actively in use stuff Feb 05 19:51:25 i never reach 200mb swap Feb 05 19:51:34 then again if you open a big website and swap most of your core OS out, _then_ the n900 becomes very sluggish Feb 05 19:52:03 mgedmin: that figures Feb 05 19:52:33 kinda sucks when you open the camera lens cover and then have to wait 10 seconds for the app to start up Feb 05 19:53:28 anybody knows how to stop indexing files from /usr? after repartitioning all images and system sounds show up in image browser and media player, instead of the files from /home/user directory Feb 05 19:53:52 although maybe that was the adhoc wifi memory leak, which killed performance entirely Feb 05 19:54:17 large websites in normal use result in jaggy UI animations; I don't remember if I tried using camera in that situation Feb 05 19:54:37 maromader: wondering if it uses so much resources indexing , i havent seen any good searching app for the n900 Feb 05 19:54:43 any suggestions Feb 05 19:54:52 maromader, look for tracker's config file somewhere in ~/.local, IIRC Feb 05 19:54:55 alexj_, yeah, it uses about 33% cpu Feb 05 19:55:00 which repository contains libqt4-maemo5? Feb 05 19:55:56 mgedmin: i like the option of sliding the lens protector to boot the app up , it was very fast Feb 05 19:56:26 good UI choice, that Feb 05 19:56:28 any app to read the tracker index ? Feb 05 19:56:31 mgedmin, thanks for the tip, it's in ~/.config/tracker/ Feb 05 19:57:33 btw, you could change this value... Feb 05 19:57:39 # Minimizes memory use at the expense of indexing speed Feb 05 19:57:40 LowMemoryMode=false Feb 05 20:00:02 Hi Feb 05 20:08:12 ok, when you do repartitioning it's good idea to killall trackerd, otherwise it freaks out. any other good services to kill at the time? Feb 05 20:09:12 you can fix trackerd Feb 05 20:09:16 through its config file Feb 05 20:09:38 if you don't want trackerd - you probably want to think about if you want to start the media player - as it pretty much relies on it Feb 05 20:09:56 SpeedEvil, no, I mean only when you do repartitioning Feb 05 20:10:00 otherwise it's nice Feb 05 20:10:03 ah Feb 05 20:10:21 and yes, I think I have to fix the config file, otherwise it starts indexing /usr Feb 05 20:11:07 so it will be a 3 stage process - making new partitions, formatting and copying /usr, fixing tracker config Feb 05 20:11:08 now we're rocking baby Feb 05 20:11:28 let the dual 9800GT kick ass begin! Feb 05 20:16:40 mh, the irc plugin to contacts and conversations is hardly useful Feb 05 20:16:55 there's no configurable ignore Feb 05 20:17:43 any app that isn't specifically designed for IRC is mostly useless, IMO Feb 05 20:18:04 same for pidgin too in that regard Feb 05 20:18:43 need patch pidgin msn chat room support Feb 05 20:22:12 my wifi successfully picks up stuff ia dhcp but then doesn't allow any out bound connection. tcpdump doesn't show my device even trying Feb 05 20:22:20 yet gprs0 works Feb 05 20:22:43 Damion2, check the power settings Feb 05 20:23:06 maromader: I'm next to the AP Feb 05 20:23:13 Damion2, Preferences -> Network connections -> Connections -> your wifi -> advanced -> other Feb 05 20:23:15 dhcp works Feb 05 20:23:21 no, power settings on your n900 Feb 05 20:23:39 probably your wifi card works on the lowest setting Feb 05 20:23:48 I had the same problem at the beginning :-) Feb 05 20:24:04 it worked up until now Feb 05 20:24:11 Nokia should switch that to at least medium on the default install Feb 05 20:24:19 Damion2, check your power settings Feb 05 20:24:19 I suspect a reboot will fix it but I want to debug this Feb 05 20:24:55 it's on 100mw Feb 05 20:25:01 I don't know about debug, but ifconfig wlan0 down, and then rmmod and modprobe the driver (wl112x iirc?) sometimes fixed that issue for me Feb 05 20:25:05 and the bottom one? Feb 05 20:25:22 ShadowJK: ahha wl1* yeah hold on... Feb 05 20:25:44 I don't know how to debug it Feb 05 20:26:44 that worked Feb 05 20:27:08 thanks. 1st time I've seen that Feb 05 20:27:20 happens twice a month for me Feb 05 20:28:01 I was pissing around with adhoc yesterday Feb 05 20:28:28 I installed a proxy and was trying to manually sort joikuspot features without anything fancy Feb 05 20:29:02 it was 2am and I kept falling asleep and droppig the phone on my chest Feb 05 20:30:08 ~powertop Feb 05 20:30:09 it has been said that powertop is available from http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=491333 Feb 05 20:37:40 ~powertop is also http://www.2shared.com/file/11135428/bbe19274/powertop_111-1_armel.html Feb 05 20:37:41 okay, DocScrutinizer51 Feb 05 20:45:51 anyone know what's the deal with unzip? It's still in testing or dev? Feb 05 20:50:03 lcuk, http://wiki.maemo.org/VideoEditor Feb 05 20:50:26 Am I correct in thinking that if I put a mount into /etc/fstab it won't be mounted automatically? Feb 05 20:50:48 jophish: depends on how you enter it of course Feb 05 20:50:50 jophish, /etc/fstab is generated at boot time Feb 05 20:51:07 sorry, in the /etc/events.d/rcS-late Feb 05 20:51:07 O.o Feb 05 20:51:08 eww Feb 05 20:52:12 luke-jr, cheer up, at least Nokia didn't go the Google way and make Maemo with Java only :-) Feb 05 20:53:07 maromader: ... Feb 05 20:53:30 ok, let's test my repartitioning scripts one more time... Feb 05 20:55:07 luke-jr: efika still messed up? Feb 05 20:55:55 Stskeeps: haven't checked this week yet :) Feb 05 20:55:58 probably tomorrow Feb 05 20:56:23 k Feb 05 20:56:41 Stskeeps: N8x0 still messed up? :p Feb 05 20:57:04 Stskeeps: booted my Zaurus SL-C760 yesterday and noticed it was running 2.6.23 ;) Feb 05 20:57:30 luke-jr: yeah, that's a bit sad Feb 05 20:57:30 :P Feb 05 20:57:41 luke-jr: you are using the Angstrom rom? Feb 05 20:58:14 ds3: I had a custom-built OE image last time I flashed it Feb 05 20:58:21 Arkenoi: looks like there may be a laser nanoprojector on the market soon Feb 05 20:58:40 which was quite some time ago Feb 05 20:59:03 yeah, 2006 <.< Feb 05 20:59:10 did the C760 have a hard drive? Feb 05 20:59:15 ds3: no Feb 05 20:59:57 but it did have a SD slot XD Feb 05 21:00:07 CF slot was of course used for a Wifi card Feb 05 21:00:13 though it doesn't seem to work anymore Feb 05 21:00:58 really wish they had an internal wireless method..even BT would be nice Feb 05 21:01:07 I was thinking of combining it with a Nexus One or something, but then I realized A) 5 minute battery life still screws me up; B) Zaurus has no Bluetooth Feb 05 21:01:28 "Can You Trust Chinese Computer Equipment?" (C)Slashdot Feb 05 21:01:34 * RST38h laughs satanically Feb 05 21:05:12 I believe the Chinese are asking themselves "Can You Trust American Computer Equipment?" at the same time :P Feb 05 21:05:59 there's American computer equipment? <.< Feb 05 21:06:08 juhar, And the answer for both is no. Feb 05 21:06:45 Ooops - sorry to bug juhar . Feb 05 21:21:04 Hey, is it possible to block a number from calling me and texting me? Feb 05 21:23:54 hm Feb 05 21:24:05 The media player seems to die if you try to play an unsupported file format Feb 05 21:24:14 heh Feb 05 21:24:17 not good Feb 05 21:24:22 Die, as in, it says the format is unsupported and refuses to play any videos before a reboot Feb 05 21:26:14 neat, ill try that sometime Feb 05 21:26:22 havent seen that one Feb 05 21:28:23 Now I wonder why this file would be unsupported in the first place, hm Feb 05 21:31:52 ah Feb 05 21:31:56 Is h264 not supported? Feb 05 21:34:20 oh, by the way, have you noticed the filesystem used in n900? Feb 05 21:34:44 Which one of them? :P Feb 05 21:35:17 any with ext3? Feb 05 21:35:27 maromader: hopefully not Feb 05 21:35:34 ext3 is not designed for such storage Feb 05 21:36:47 .../home is ext3 Feb 05 21:37:26 Lumpio-, really? Feb 05 21:37:52 /dev/mmcblk0p2 on /home type ext3 (rw,noatime,errors=continue,commit=1,data=writeback) Feb 05 21:37:58 Says mount Feb 05 21:38:13 awww... one more reason for repartitioning :) Feb 05 21:38:30 hi, i installed the adblock plus, but it does not seem to work - when i mouseover a flash, no "block" appears, and it does not block anything Feb 05 21:40:39 maromader: what do you plan on replacing the ext3 with? Feb 05 21:40:53 ext2 obviously Feb 05 21:41:01 re Feb 05 21:41:17 mm, wouldn't want to have anything important on there, especially if you lose power Feb 05 21:42:13 microlith, you have battery, I assume ACPI subsystem is working and Linux will shut down the system with critical power status, right? Feb 05 21:42:39 microlith, besides, you think ext3 is good for SSD drive? Feb 05 21:42:52 especially one you cannot replace easily? Feb 05 21:42:54 i wouldn't call it ssd :) Feb 05 21:43:34 I had one system running ext3 / rootfs... it ran 2 years, then the machine itself died, the SD card still lives :P Feb 05 21:44:11 the swap will likely be more of a wear than ext3 anyway... Feb 05 21:45:09 Ah, it would seem the video thing is h264 related too Feb 05 21:53:33 daaaaamn Feb 05 21:53:48 .- Feb 05 21:53:54 sorry Feb 05 21:53:55 I've forgot sli bridge at my country! Feb 05 21:54:05 epic fail Feb 05 21:54:20 heh Feb 05 21:56:10 Stskeeps, drank a beer for you recently :D Feb 05 21:56:20 mooooo Feb 05 21:56:30 he stskeep Feb 05 21:58:18 that stupid bridge costs 2 bucks (( It's actually more expensive to go to the country to pick it :D Feb 05 21:58:45 ext3 will not kill a properly wear-levelled drive quickly. The journal incurs extra writes, but extra writes are better than data loss. Feb 05 21:59:29 the best solution would be something like LogFS or UBIFS, but eMMC makes those somewhat unnecessary Feb 05 21:59:46 ext2 can really trash a sd fs, heh Feb 05 22:00:26 the journal is probably not that bad Feb 05 22:00:37 stskeeps, how was the bar?) Feb 05 22:01:07 the ideal solution would be something that supported trim Feb 05 22:01:08 but... Feb 05 22:01:09 was good Feb 05 22:01:39 SpeedEvil: nah, were it usable by ubifs or logfs, TRIM wouldn't be necssary Feb 05 22:01:42 Stskeeps, it was bad if you can type now :D Feb 05 22:01:42 +e Feb 05 22:01:58 SpeedEvil: you're asking for catalytic converter and we haven't even got an internal combustion engine yet! Feb 05 22:02:18 I thought logfs was able to run on block devices? Feb 05 22:02:26 isnt trim in 2.6.33ß Feb 05 22:02:39 ShadowJK: it is, but it's not stable (enough) yet Feb 05 22:03:12 microlith: yes. Either a 'get out of my way, I know about NAND and will wear level myself' mode - or TRIM Feb 05 22:03:19 yup Feb 05 22:03:33 woglinde: trim may be in the kernel - however - SDs don't support it Feb 05 22:03:39 yes but the hardware isn't ssd, and its internal structure doesn't lend itself to doing anything meaningful with trim anyway Feb 05 22:03:45 wazd_n800: have to travel tomorrow so can't be too drunk :P Feb 05 22:04:01 ShadowJK: do you ahve any actual documentation on wear leveling on SDs? Feb 05 22:04:15 regular SD cards don't do any wear levelling, iirc Feb 05 22:04:25 the LogFS author posted to LKML about it Feb 05 22:04:30 microlith: they do Feb 05 22:04:53 but it all operates with 256k blocks Feb 05 22:04:58 ShadowJK: do you happen to recall keywords - or did you happen to bookmark it? Feb 05 22:05:07 so, should I stick with ext3 then for /home ? Feb 05 22:05:14 maromader: for the sake of your data, yes Feb 05 22:05:15 Speedevil: joern engel smartmedia Feb 05 22:05:16 The physical erase block size of the flash involved is 128-256k Feb 05 22:05:17 maybe Feb 05 22:05:29 smartmedia isn't SD though Feb 05 22:05:41 unless that's just a comment Feb 05 22:05:43 smartmedia was almost a raw NAND interface Feb 05 22:05:47 yeah Feb 05 22:05:51 ok then Feb 05 22:05:55 ext3 it will be Feb 05 22:06:03 smartmedia is also a FTL format Feb 05 22:06:17 how about /usr? /opt? Feb 05 22:06:30 and what he found was that basically all usb keys and memory cards implement smartmedia Feb 05 22:06:57 maromader: /usr is on the / partition, /opt is a symlink to /home/opt Feb 05 22:07:00 was? smartmedia is a raw NAND interface Feb 05 22:07:15 ds3: find me a smartmedia card :P Feb 05 22:07:19 people have used them on a raw NAND controller (if there is such a thing) Feb 05 22:07:23 smartmedia is not what you mean Feb 05 22:07:25 microlith: want to buy one? Feb 05 22:07:32 microlith, I so, so if I move /usr to the smartmedia, then I should set it up as ext3 Feb 05 22:07:43 not particularly, I haven't see any devices that use the formfactor since 2003 Feb 05 22:08:01 they reduced the size and called them xD cards Feb 05 22:08:02 maromader: you will likely have trouble booting if you move /usr Feb 05 22:08:05 2003 is pretty late Feb 05 22:08:08 same stuff, different package Feb 05 22:08:10 ds3: oh, those evil things Feb 05 22:08:19 microlith, no, already done that a few times :) Feb 05 22:08:19 a whole two companies backing them Feb 05 22:08:27 there are still 2? ;) Feb 05 22:08:34 http://www.mail-archive.com/linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org/msg170028.html Feb 05 22:08:37 n900 boots fine Feb 05 22:08:55 ds3: only ones I knew of were Olympus and Fuji Feb 05 22:09:10 everyone else went SD except (lol) sony Feb 05 22:09:40 faster than light? Feb 05 22:09:43 microlith: were? Feb 05 22:09:50 Damion2: flash transition layer Feb 05 22:10:06 The above claims that 'all' USB sticks implment a wear leveling algorithm similar to the one in the smartmedia standard Feb 05 22:10:11 ds3: right right, it's not dead yet Feb 05 22:10:26 yeah well obviously I didn't really think it was ftl ;) Feb 05 22:10:54 microlith: I seem to recall Fuji was phasing it out Feb 05 22:11:02 ds3: wouldn't surprise me Feb 05 22:12:28 So anyway, second generation SSD's map 4k logical block writes sequentially into the 256k physical, and keeps a map of where each 4k block is located physically, this is why they have enormous 64M RAM ("cache")... SD and such map 256k block to a 256k physical... Feb 05 22:12:32 nite all, sweet dreams Feb 05 22:12:41 nite trem Feb 05 22:13:13 There are relatively simple and resource unintensive ways of doing wear leveling. Feb 05 22:13:26 trim helps those second-gen SSD's to do something sensible once everything is rewritten in a new random order Feb 05 22:13:36 But I have mislaid where I put my bookmarks on this. Feb 05 22:13:42 Well it's not just wear leveling :) Feb 05 22:13:45 no Feb 05 22:14:00 wear leveling - pretending it's a defect free4 device and defragmenting, and ... Feb 05 22:14:24 logfs author replied "i dont" after presenting logfs and one in the audience asking how he does wear leveling Feb 05 22:14:50 basically it shuffles around all active data anyway Feb 05 22:14:51 ShadowJK: he doesn't? Feb 05 22:14:56 ahh Feb 05 22:15:25 ~seen javispedro Feb 05 22:15:28 javispedro <~javier@69.Red-80-32-146.staticIP.rima-tde.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 3d 4h 28m 5s ago, saying: 'well I'm going to take it to a nokia care point and see what Phoenix has to say'. Feb 05 22:16:10 nokia care captured javis! Feb 05 22:16:13 how to initialize tracker index? Feb 05 22:16:27 * microlith facepalms at all the spam posts on tmo Feb 05 22:16:33 nilfs2 vs ext3 on a OCZ Rally2 Turbo (dual channel usb flash key, 30ish meg write speed sequential) is kinda funny Feb 05 22:16:58 got my n900! Feb 05 22:16:59 =D Feb 05 22:17:02 wazd do you know if javis holds a talk at fosem? Feb 05 22:17:03 annnnd Feb 05 22:17:05 its updating Feb 05 22:17:07 dracflamloc, congratulations :-) Feb 05 22:17:15 dracflamloc, congrats Feb 05 22:17:16 dracflamloc, don't brick it the same day :) Feb 05 22:17:22 my benchmark of copying 2 gig squid cache yields about 500kbyte/s with ext3, and 5 megabytes/sec with nilfs2 Feb 05 22:17:24 i'll try not to Feb 05 22:17:31 but ive got all nigth without my wife... Feb 05 22:17:41 unfortunately nilfs2 blows up on arm after a few minutes :) Feb 05 22:18:03 (well the vm blows up, the fs and data is intact) Feb 05 22:18:10 versioning and continouous snapshotting... doesn't that eat up space after a while? Feb 05 22:18:29 hm so nilfs2 is really coole for flash devices? Feb 05 22:18:36 it throws away old versions unless you ask them to be kept Feb 05 22:18:44 oh ok Feb 05 22:18:55 (eventually) Feb 05 22:19:30 oh cool, sponsored by NTT Feb 05 22:19:41 any log structured fs should be awesome on flash and cheap ssd Feb 05 22:20:54 btrfs is (or was) kinda halfway there with a cheap-ssd mode that just made the disk layout algorithm consider write seeks very expensive and read seeks cheap Feb 05 22:21:08 but I heard it was removed? not sure Feb 05 22:21:23 btrfs is kinda unfinished :) Feb 05 22:21:24 that sounds more like compensating for a bad controller Feb 05 22:21:31 um Feb 05 22:21:52 You wont get a "good" controller with anything except second gen ssd Feb 05 22:22:06 why are people using SSD's instead of a board with a NAND controller + NAND? Feb 05 22:22:23 ds3: because they can plug them into their existing SATA interfaces and boot off them Feb 05 22:22:33 Those things are basically Arm CPUs running LogFS-type things. Feb 05 22:22:58 microlith: so people are lazy and stupid, in order words? Feb 05 22:23:00 Anyone here tried playing with artoolkit on the N900? Feb 05 22:23:13 a NAND controller is cheaper and better Feb 05 22:23:20 There's packages for it in extras-devel but they appear to contain nothing! Feb 05 22:23:34 ds3: just look at the confusion and complaining about the N900 NAND :) Feb 05 22:23:41 ds3: I dunno, I don't think I'd want to mess around too much with my work laptop just to get some additional responsiveness Feb 05 22:23:57 ShadowJK: I suppose... a direct NAND interface seems natural and proper to me Feb 05 22:24:08 but then I make an effort to avoid x86 ;) Feb 05 22:25:06 So basically stuff that simulates block devices is used for consumers, because then it just works when it's connected to their PC Feb 05 22:25:18 ds3: I -think- the fusionio devices effectively do something similar, but have no means of proving it Feb 05 22:25:32 mass production makes this cheaper than raw nand, amusingly :-) Feb 05 22:25:48 I donno about that Feb 05 22:26:07 you can't do X + Y < Y.... X + Y <= Y maybe Feb 05 22:26:37 I guess this all those into the cloud known as the mystery of x86 Feb 05 22:27:06 hi all, I'm trying to install fosdem application on N900 Feb 05 22:27:23 there's enterprise stuff with tons of SLC nand on PCIe... but it's bloody expensive :-) Feb 05 22:27:47 yes, but that's because there is the abomination known as PCIe Feb 05 22:28:03 I've downloaded fosdem-schedule_0.4_fremantle . Now its possible to install it ? Feb 05 22:28:12 ds3: don't forget, if they suspect you aren't a consumer, price goes up by 10x ;-) Feb 05 22:28:52 ShadowJK: Indeed... but I am hoping the coming SoC Atoms might fix some of this Feb 05 22:28:57 If I click on it the N900 asks me to choose an application, so I choose application manager, but nothing happens Feb 05 22:29:35 I'm wrong ? Feb 05 22:29:48 User's aren't supposed to download random .deb files from internet Feb 05 22:30:14 dpkg -i from x-terminal after sudo gainroot (rootsh in extras) Feb 05 22:30:55 rootsh how to install ? Feb 05 22:31:48 enable extras (maemo.org) in app manager (menu->application catalogues), download, all, scroll to rootsh Feb 05 22:32:15 (approximately, from my poor memory) Feb 05 22:33:04 i have enabled maemo . now its verifying new applications Feb 05 22:33:33 goodnite Feb 05 22:34:14 ds3: i guess one can always hope thet wont be crippled Feb 05 22:34:46 * ShadowJK 'd wanr a m-itx or m-atx atom dualcore board with 4gigs ram and 4-8 sata ports Feb 05 22:35:10 at sub-phenom price Feb 05 22:36:04 ShadowJK: rootsh installed. Feb 05 22:36:07 now I try Feb 05 22:36:41 t-tan: you notice any real differences with -O2 now that you've had it awhile? Feb 05 22:36:47 ShadowJK: why go atom if you want all that? Feb 05 22:37:39 hey I'd take that with an arm cpu too... Feb 05 22:37:58 low power storage server being the goal Feb 05 22:38:26 what do you need that is not in the slug already? Feb 05 22:38:54 there is tab completion using x terminal ? Feb 05 22:38:55 slug died, and it's sluggish ;p Feb 05 22:39:12 oh Feb 05 22:39:52 atom 330 can push at half gigabit speed Feb 05 22:40:11 slug at, uh, 40mbit? Feb 05 22:40:58 * ShadowJK has a sheeva, but no sata there :( Feb 05 22:41:12 recalcati_: ctrl+i Feb 05 22:41:49 frals: beautifull ! Feb 05 22:42:07 also on the statuss bar thing at the bottom Feb 05 22:42:52 * ShadowJK sleeps Feb 05 22:43:11 Man I need snap to grid for desktop widgets Feb 05 22:43:16 perfect. application installed and working . thank you very much Feb 05 22:43:22 Lumpio-: so enable Feb 05 22:43:32 I just spent 15 minutes OCDing with positioning Feb 05 22:43:48 I... must have missed that option :o Feb 05 22:44:01 its on by default in PR1.1, just with a very small snap setting Feb 05 22:44:05 http://wiki.maemo.org/Scratchbox_repositories#Porting_Debian_Packages mentions etch. Would it be best to use lenny, or perhaps squeeze? Feb 05 22:44:14 i cant remember the config file, search the bugtracker for the bug about it, and its there Feb 05 22:45:04 oo ok Feb 05 22:45:14 Thanks Feb 05 22:50:55 fosdem scheduling application on N900 is really interesting. Feb 05 22:51:39 Lumpio-: you can enable it Feb 05 22:51:51 Lumpio-: I think it's enabled at 4 pixel res Feb 05 22:52:53 Hey, is it possible to block a number from calling me and texting me? Feb 05 22:55:21 /usr/share/hildon-desktop/transistions.ini - at the end - Lumpio- Feb 05 22:55:27 Thanks! Feb 05 22:55:50 I did notice there's some snapping, but not enough for my purposes Feb 05 22:55:56 I'll check that file out Feb 05 23:00:25 where is scummvm? I can't find it on the repositories Feb 05 23:03:09 i think its in the devel repo Feb 05 23:06:44 jebba: I didn't notice any slowdowns so far :) it's hard to tell - the N900 is already quite fast Feb 05 23:07:05 * luke-jr wants Qualcomm's dual-core 1.5 GHz Snapdragon <.< Feb 05 23:07:20 jebba: I'd need to N900 with different kernels to tell the difference Feb 05 23:07:30 s/to/two/ Feb 05 23:07:30 t-tan meant: jebba: I'd need two N900 with different kernels to tell the difference Feb 05 23:08:31 i can ssh with wifi, but why usb network connection gives ssh: connect to host N900 port 22: No route to host? Feb 05 23:11:13 Z4lk: I have extras and extras-devel activated and still nothing Feb 05 23:11:58 uhsh: pc-connectivity installed? Feb 05 23:12:00 correct ip? Feb 05 23:12:12 then i dont know thats where i got it from Feb 05 23:15:30 t-tan: mine has been rebooting a bit, like 4-5 times in 12 hours.... Feb 05 23:15:36 i didnt really see that before. Feb 05 23:17:15 jebba: no reboots so far. when did it happen? with certain apps? or just randomly? Feb 05 23:17:19 moin cehteh Feb 05 23:17:20 * SpeedEvil wonders why vim is 21M Feb 05 23:17:22 ceh900: Feb 05 23:17:43 ceh900: --> #dwimd Feb 05 23:17:59 scr4ve: can't find package pc-connectivity Feb 05 23:18:00 SpeedEvil: to compete with Emacs Feb 05 23:18:29 uhsf: maemo5-pc-connectivity afaik Feb 05 23:18:41 t-tan: naah - busybox tools tend to be somewhat limited. And it's not really reasonable to expect a phone to ship with full vi. Feb 05 23:18:48 just google it Feb 05 23:18:58 http://pc-connectivity.garage.maemo.org/ Feb 05 23:19:12 oops Feb 05 23:19:29 t-tan: thread clash - yeah. Feb 05 23:19:37 SpeedEvil: it is reasonable to expect any phone to ship with vi?? Feb 05 23:20:21 nevermind - I was commenting on something said in another channel - and forgot it wasn't this one. I need to go to sleep or something. Feb 05 23:20:49 SpeedEvil: if busybox is to limited for you - try the new *utils-gnu packages Feb 05 23:21:02 SpeedEvil: no problem Feb 05 23:21:10 where is this wonderous package? Feb 05 23:21:37 It'd be quicker to list the busybox tools that haven't annoyed me. Feb 05 23:21:43 SpeedEvil: I just uploaded fresh versions: coreutils-gnu, findutils-gnu, grep-gnu, sed-gnu, tar-gnu Feb 05 23:21:57 oooh! Feb 05 23:22:51 I wonder why Nokia shipped busybox at all. the real tools are not much larger and is still some space left on NAND... Feb 05 23:23:02 PSS Feb 05 23:23:23 The busybox tools have a much lower RAM use when they are in RAM as I understand it. Feb 05 23:23:54 If you have - say - busybox shell running - then to run also awk, or ps at the same time adds very little RAM use Feb 05 23:23:55 t-tan: it rebooted on a couple fone calls and other times just random. Feb 05 23:23:56 SpeedEvil: compared to Qt? :) Feb 05 23:24:13 t-tan: now you're just being silly, and bringing rationality into the argument. Feb 05 23:24:16 scr4ve: are you sure maemo5-pc-connectivity is needed? because it's not mentionned in the howto Feb 05 23:24:36 jebba: ok, we'll see. maybe I had just too much luck today. Feb 05 23:25:10 i have quite a lot of stuff compiled into my kernel, but lots of those modules aren't loaded so it shouldn't matter (e.g. i'm not using NAT IPv6 etc) Feb 05 23:25:41 would be nice to just lower the senstitivity of the watchdog or something. I need to track down what is actually resetting the device... Feb 05 23:26:21 jebba: look in /etc/*/*/* for dsmetool Feb 05 23:26:21 jebba: I noticed that IPv6 is loaded by default, BTW Feb 05 23:26:31 jebba: mentions of - that is Feb 05 23:28:09 jebba: could you try my kernel to check whether it's possibly only a minor difference that causes the reboots? Feb 05 23:29:17 dsmetool launches most stuff - and will reboot if some things die Feb 05 23:29:24 or if some things die often Feb 05 23:29:39 forex the browser dying 3 times will casue a reboot Feb 05 23:29:42 usually Feb 05 23:30:23 t-tan: do you know if there's an easier way to do enter in the emulated 'terminal' from the scratchbox emulator than clicking on the "ctrl" button, pressing enter and then unclicking it? Also, do you know if there's any way to simulate accelerometer, GPS etc. within scratchbox? Feb 05 23:30:44 SpeedEvil: you mean, if the device is on for two weeks and the browser crashes 3 times...? Feb 05 23:31:00 t-tan: no - I think it's within 6 mins Feb 05 23:32:07 t-tan: awk-gnu? Feb 05 23:32:19 ptl: I don't think so - for advanced stuff you need the real device. why would you use the graphical X-Terminal in scratchbox? Feb 05 23:32:46 when I do "tar -c -f - /home/user/MyDocs | ssh user@host cat > MyDocs.tar", tar (from busybox) creates a file MyDocs.tar in current directory and stops at some point because disk is full. any way to avoid that? Feb 05 23:33:08 SpeedEvil: not yet ready - it's an awkward package :) Feb 05 23:33:26 t-tan: :) Feb 05 23:33:41 not optified I guess. Feb 05 23:33:46 tar -cf - | ssh user@host "dd of=Mydocs.tar" Feb 05 23:33:56 let's see... Feb 05 23:33:56 Er Feb 05 23:34:05 tar -cf - /home/user/MyDocs | ssh user@host "dd of=Mydocs.tar" Feb 05 23:34:14 I left out the directory to tar. Feb 05 23:34:24 I'd compress it too if I were you. Feb 05 23:34:30 tar -czf - /home/user/MyDocs | ssh user@host "dd of=Mydocs.tgz" Feb 05 23:34:49 t-tan: thannks - I have find that's not broken Feb 05 23:35:29 ScribbleJ, thanks, I forgot about " " in ssh :-) Feb 05 23:35:56 t-tan: for testing and such Feb 05 23:36:36 do you know if /home/user/* is the same in all regions (US, Europe, Asia, etc.), or there are multiple versions of user directory? perhaps I could create "standard packages" with /home/user/ contents to download for people who are doing repartitioning? Feb 05 23:36:37 ptl: why don't you just use the scratchbox shell? Feb 05 23:36:55 Wtfun Feb 05 23:38:02 maromader: you mean packages of the MyDocs folder contents? Feb 05 23:38:07 yes Feb 05 23:38:10 t-tan: well, it might be an issue that affects other applications, isn't it? I don't want to find out just when i need it Feb 05 23:38:21 t-tan: oops - yes - it is optified - I misread df Feb 05 23:38:33 so instead of making backups yourself you could grab the contents from the net and put them on N900 after repartitioning Feb 05 23:38:33 and about GPS, accelerometer and such - it's dangerous experimenting on the device Feb 05 23:38:39 it might mess up your phone Feb 05 23:38:45 so it's best to test on the emulator first Feb 05 23:38:56 when your program is stable, you do the device tests Feb 05 23:39:12 this is the rationale for the emulator in the first place, isn't it? Feb 05 23:40:36 ptl: I haven't played with GPS stuff (liblocation?) yet but if you could come up with some "replay GPS/accel from file" solution that could be useful Feb 05 23:40:43 ptl: practically - with a sane program - that doesn't touch contacts or phone or ... - there is little prospect of screwing stuff up if you're remotely sane Feb 05 23:40:45 ptl: if it doesn't exist already... Feb 05 23:41:43 hi folks Feb 05 23:41:44 ptl: if you're only reading data (GPS etc) there's not much that can go wrong Feb 05 23:42:08 just about to install debian etch/lenny/sarge i386 into VMWare Player Feb 05 23:42:48 maromader: but there are only a few demo movies and nothing relevant on MyDocs, isn't it? Feb 05 23:43:19 t-tan, true, but after simple copy those directories aren't indexed by tracker anymore Feb 05 23:43:39 odin_: how do install three versions simultaneously?? Feb 05 23:43:53 and I want to have N900 after repartitioning as close to the original as possible Feb 05 23:43:59 into 3 different container files (or partitions etc..) Feb 05 23:45:25 maromader: you might run into some license problems with the defaullt contents Feb 05 23:45:58 t-tan, yeah, you're right... then just a guide how to make those backups yourself Feb 05 23:46:35 maromader: I have a backup on my HD - and I only repartitioned once... Feb 05 23:47:39 t-tan, I want to make a set of scripts which will do almost all work for you Feb 05 23:47:46 hi all Feb 05 23:49:26 maromader: if you want to make reparitioning easier you could start with compiling typical partioning scenarios so that we know how could make ke-recv and rcS-late more flexible Feb 05 23:50:56 maromader: I think everybody maintains his own scripts for partitioning and we're all reinventing the wheel... Feb 05 23:51:15 t-tan: ok... Feb 05 23:54:37 does someone here use usb to connect a n900 to a pc? how to do this? the howto doesn't work for me Feb 05 23:54:48 t-tan, will do when I finish this "basic" version :) Feb 05 23:55:00 uhsf, is the PC Windows or Linux ? Feb 05 23:55:10 linux Feb 05 23:55:27 what desktop environment ? when you hookup the N900 you select Mass Storage Controller ? Feb 05 23:55:27 maromader: ok, cool. what is your "basic" version? Feb 05 23:56:06 odin_: i select pc suite, i want to ssh to and from my pc Feb 05 23:56:06 t-tan, method http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Ruskie wrapped in 3 scripts Feb 05 23:56:56 uhsf, I use WLAN for SSH myself, no idea about PC Suite Mode and Linux PC host Feb 05 23:57:25 pc suite is useful if you don't want MyDocs and SD card remounted on linux box Feb 05 23:57:26 maromader: I don't think more than one ext2 parition makes sense Feb 05 23:58:21 maromader: what exactly is the use of pc suite mode if i can't ssh? Feb 05 23:58:30 t-tan, so, put all of / on mmc? Feb 05 23:58:32 maromader: you'd have to repartition whenever one partition is full Feb 05 23:58:34 uhsf, I guess to talk to the PC Suite Tooling ? Feb 05 23:58:36 uhsf, you can ssh over the air :) Feb 05 23:58:53 uhsf, what is the point of built in WLAN if you can't SSH ! Feb 05 23:59:11 i can ssh with wifi Feb 05 23:59:16 t-tan, then I will have to modify the bootloader to boot system from mmc, right? Feb 05 23:59:21 it's the usb connection that is useless Feb 05 23:59:24 maromader: not necessarly, only the stuff that is frequently accessed. Feb 05 23:59:38 what are the programs witch mounts /home? doesn't have to be within /etc/event.d? i'm so confused... Feb 05 23:59:47 i should plug it in the wall socket i would be as much useful Feb 05 23:59:57 maromader: for now, I'd keep usr on / and opt for full optications Feb 06 00:00:32 t-tan, you mean on that small 256 MB cripple of system partition? :-) Feb 06 00:00:41 is PC Suite Mode just a PPP connection over USB ? Feb 06 00:00:53 t-tan, I like FHS, I'm not a fan of optification Feb 06 00:01:06 maromader: yes, if all addon sw goes to /opt there's no problem Feb 06 00:01:31 there's still /usr & /var problem Feb 06 00:01:42 yeah, /usr is big Feb 06 00:01:48 I don't know about /var though Feb 06 00:01:49 t-tan, thans not ture... dpkg/apt do not scale Feb 06 00:01:51 odin_: how a ppp connection over usb could be used? Feb 06 00:01:53 maromader: FHS doesn't conflict with "real" optification, ie. no symlinks in / Feb 06 00:02:22 ah, and anybody knows the source of the SIM-pin entry dialog while startup? Feb 06 00:02:27 t-tan, rootfs has major problem is software repos for Maemo5 start to spring up and devel/testing packages get promoted Feb 06 00:02:35 s/ture/true/ Feb 06 00:02:39 yes, /var should be moved to eMMC, too Feb 06 00:03:11 I hope N900 is a success and I hope the number of packages in stable increase 10 fold Feb 06 00:03:20 then what is Nokia going to do Feb 06 00:03:30 right now I'm using Ruskie's partition setup, I was planning to change it when scripts will be stable to include /var on MMC Feb 06 00:03:35 please someone explain the purpose of this page http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_USB_networking if it's impossible to ping anything else than the n900 itself Feb 06 00:03:55 uhsf, it is possible, I've done it Feb 06 00:04:03 how? Feb 06 00:04:10 using the guide Feb 06 00:04:15 * DocScrutinizer suggests to grab a book about arbitrary distro config and (esp) partitioning - *from 1999!!* Feb 06 00:04:20 besides, why do you need usb networking of you have wifi? Feb 06 00:04:27 odin_: I think the next FW update should move /var to /home/var on the first boot Feb 06 00:04:35 back then hackers knew how to partition a system Feb 06 00:05:08 t-tan, great idea, I hope Nokia do it and support it Feb 06 00:05:11 i always prefer wired when i'm home Feb 06 00:05:15 Anyone got any clue, that when ovi maps 3.03 will be available on the n900? :o Feb 06 00:05:36 uhsf, it's a *portable* device :-) Feb 06 00:05:47 why would you want to tether it to a wall? Feb 06 00:06:08 maromader: are you sure you pinged outside the n900 over usb and it was not the wifi that went on automatically cause that's what it always keeps doing Feb 06 00:06:14 odin_: we could file a bug report like: I have installed 100 packages from extras* and now my /var/ is too large to fit on NAND Feb 06 00:06:22 maybe because of anti-wlan policy of the location/company you're at? Feb 06 00:06:49 uhsf, yes, I'm sure Feb 06 00:07:19 i did the exact same thing as in the guide at least 10 times Feb 06 00:07:22 DocScrutinizer, he's talking about his home Feb 06 00:07:26 t-tan, file a bug, I've tested the prospect that extras-testing and extra-devel packages all get promoted to extras and the number of packages double (over the expected lifetime of the N900) and now my rootfs is full Feb 06 00:08:02 t-tan, also I did not install any of these extras package, I merely added the repo Feb 06 00:08:28 t-tan, urgent scalability concern within the expected lifetime of the N900 Feb 06 00:08:29 odin_: please a go ahead, if you already have data. I'd vote for the bug Feb 06 00:09:31 t-tan, I don't have the data Feb 06 00:09:46 odin_: the App manager also doesn't scale well (unlike dpkg/apt) - it's already too slow for me Feb 06 00:10:15 t-tan, well dpkg/apt reallt isn't that fast either, try, time dpkg -l Feb 06 00:11:12 odin_: already started. I'll let you know when it finishes ;-) Feb 06 00:12:31 odin_: another design flaw are the dependencies of all the language packages Feb 06 00:13:37 t-tan, what you mean there should be a mechnism to say, "XXX-en is optional if MASTER-en is not installed, but mandatory is MASTER-en is installed" Feb 06 00:14:27 t-tan, so the virtual package MASTER-en is installed, it will automatically cause all EN language related stuff to be dragged in for the packages you have installed Feb 06 00:14:48 t-tan, where you application is just "XXX" Feb 06 00:16:35 odin_: the PR package should not depend on all language packs. there should be metapackages for every luanguage and maybe en could be required as default. you'd get updates if the package is installed, but you could remove all languages you don't need Feb 06 00:19:21 maromader: the guide says to install usb-network-modules but the package can't be found Feb 06 00:20:08 uhsf, what system do you use on the pc? Feb 06 00:22:45 arch Feb 06 00:23:24 g_ether, cdc_ether Feb 06 00:23:55 uhsf, well, ubuntu worked for me... maybe your kernel lacks usb networking support? Feb 06 00:24:33 good night. bye! Feb 06 00:25:15 DocScrutinizer: i already have cdc_ether because i use usb networking with my neo freerunner Feb 06 00:25:36 but g_ether gives FATAL: Error inserting g_ether (/lib/modules/2.6.32-ARCH/kernel/drivers/usb/gadget/g_ether.ko): No such device Feb 06 00:25:39 uhsf: so I'd say for N900 it's quite the same Feb 06 00:25:43 uhsf, fellow FreeRunner owner, hi there :) Feb 06 00:26:15 uhsf, ah, I remember Feb 06 00:26:24 uhsf, on n900: Feb 06 00:26:28 ifconfig usb0 down Feb 06 00:26:39 edit /etc/network/interface Feb 06 00:26:51 i found a new purpose for my neo freerunner yesterday Feb 06 00:26:54 add network 192.168.2.0 and gateway 192.168.2.14 Feb 06 00:26:57 ifup usb0 Feb 06 00:27:10 uhsf, tell me Feb 06 00:27:25 my freerunner now serves as a step under my n900's kick stand so it's raised at the right angle Feb 06 00:27:36 hehe, nice one :) Feb 06 00:28:32 anybody knows how to ask tracker nicely to reindex it's files? Feb 06 00:29:06 maromader: check how init does it Feb 06 00:38:44 well, right now I have no idea, but something is changing even when I save the files from /home/user/MyDocs using tar. for example, autorun.inf is visible in the file manager (wasn't before repartitioning). any idea what changed? Feb 06 00:39:19 all video files, music, images are where they're expected in the file manager Feb 06 00:39:38 but media player or image viewer don't pickup them (that means tracker doesn't) Feb 06 00:45:02 where can I get Debian i386 ETCH from ? Feb 06 00:45:36 archives.debian.org Feb 06 00:46:20 tracker picks up new files... so maybe that's the timestamp issue? hmmm Feb 06 00:47:23 thanks but can't see Etch or Debian-4.0 in http://archive.debian.org/debian/dists/ (also I'm after ISOs or the netinstall ISO anyhow) Feb 06 00:47:54 oh Feb 06 00:48:03 then perhaps it's still in oldstable Feb 06 00:48:10 thanks looking Feb 06 00:50:53 I'm going to sleep, good night Feb 06 00:58:27 does n900 have option to disable data in roaming? Feb 06 01:05:23 odin_: whatcha want etch for? Feb 06 01:16:29 jebba, to install into VMWare player Feb 06 01:24:56 jacekowski: yes. there's an applet to show a button on powerbuuton menu for that Feb 06 01:26:13 jacekowski: and of course you have flightmode button there ootb Feb 06 01:26:15 found a mirror at http://mirror.leaseweb.com/debian-cdimage/archive/4.0_r8/i386/iso-cd/ Feb 06 01:39:33 how long does it take to unpack easydebian? Feb 06 02:26:54 why n900 can only ping 192.168.2.15 and nothing else with usb cable? Feb 06 02:27:29 i followed the guide carefully but it fails to ping the outside world Feb 06 02:28:13 ifconfing usb0 gives the same output as in the guide except RX bytes:0 TX bytes:0 at the end Feb 06 02:28:49 usb networking with neo freerunner works fine so why the n900 fails Feb 06 02:33:25 i would be at the step: If you can not ping the outside world (for example: local network works but Google does not), check your routing tables. Feb 06 02:33:47 but it doesn't give indications about how to change routing tables Feb 06 02:37:32 why the stupid wifi keeps connecting after i configured it not to do so Feb 06 02:38:48 is this an N800? Feb 06 02:39:02 uhsf, Well, USB networking on the Freerunner is the *only* form of networking on that platform which works reliably. Feb 06 02:41:02 uhsf: routing is unrelated to the device Feb 06 02:41:37 uhsf: nobody can tell you why your desktop PC's routing works with one device but not the other Feb 06 02:41:43 at least not with so little information Feb 06 02:42:35 N800 + static IP shows the same symptoms for me with the at one point latest upgrade Feb 06 02:45:06 nobody here ever connected a n900 via usb networking and could post his configuration? Feb 06 02:46:58 why is it so hard to connect a n900 via usb, i have everything to defaults my n900 is brand new Feb 06 02:47:44 my freerunner works fine so obviously all networking modules are set in my workstation Feb 06 02:48:22 uhsf: USB networking works just like Ethernet or Wifi networking Feb 06 02:48:35 uhsf: it connects System A to System B Feb 06 02:48:45 i couldn't follow the guide more carefully Feb 06 02:48:56 if you want System B to bridge System A's link to another interface, you need to configure System B to do that Feb 06 02:50:03 i simply want to ssh to my n900 from my pc via usb Feb 06 02:50:19 that should work fine Feb 06 02:51:20 ifup usb0 on my n900 doesn't give any ouput Feb 06 02:51:27 so it should be fine Feb 06 02:51:50 then ifconfig usb0 gives the same output as in the guide Feb 06 02:52:13 i can ping 192.168.2.15 from my n900 Feb 06 02:52:41 but that's useless to self ping the n900 i don't know why the guide says to do this Feb 06 02:52:55 the problem is i can't ping the n900 from my pc Feb 06 02:53:08 or ping anything else from my n900 Feb 06 02:53:52 uhsf: did you configure the interface on your PC? Feb 06 02:54:39 the interface is in /etc/rc.conf Feb 06 02:54:51 where else should it be configured? Feb 06 02:54:59 totally OS dependent Feb 06 02:56:02 uhsf: ping6 FF02:0:0:0:0:0:0:1%usb0 Feb 06 02:56:46 uhsf: pastebin the output Feb 06 02:57:25 from my pc or n900? Feb 06 02:57:44 either Feb 06 02:57:49 I imagine it's easier to type on PC Feb 06 02:58:24 socket: Address family not supported by protocol Feb 06 02:59:04 uhsf: computer fail :p Feb 06 02:59:13 modprobe ipv6 **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Feb 06 02:59:56 2010