**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Feb 09 02:59:56 2010 Feb 09 03:00:05 crashanddie: I've got BB for corporate email but I use n900 for it now Feb 09 03:00:14 crashanddie: dont like to carry more than 1 phone. Feb 09 03:00:19 and you shouldn't Feb 09 03:00:24 especially when one is otherwise useless Feb 09 03:00:32 Matthew-: we use exchange through BES Feb 09 03:00:39 Matthew-: not supported by N900 Feb 09 03:01:05 crashanddie: Can't your IT Team support imap ? Feb 09 03:01:07 or webmail ? Feb 09 03:01:10 N900 only supports 1 exchange account anyway afaik Feb 09 03:01:19 Matthew-, imap defeats the purpose of exchange Feb 09 03:01:25 plus the imap implementation on the N900 is very poor Feb 09 03:01:39 Matthew-: why would I go through the hassle of using webmail or imap when I have a very good email experience on the BB? Feb 09 03:01:40 kamui__: well i use Nokia Messages Feb 09 03:01:53 yea, I dicked with that for a day or two Feb 09 03:01:59 crashanddie: Not to carry it ;-) Feb 09 03:02:02 Matthew-: and no, IMAP is not supported by my company -- security issues Feb 09 03:02:06 kamui__: its same as BB push. Feb 09 03:02:08 Matthew-, if you have gmail, try nuevasync Feb 09 03:02:30 kamui__: For contcts/calendar or email? Feb 09 03:02:31 free for contacts/calendar only, like 20$ a year for everything Feb 09 03:02:35 ah ok. Feb 09 03:02:46 but there's a free 30 day trial Feb 09 03:02:51 if you want to try the full bundle Feb 09 03:02:53 may give it a go. Feb 09 03:03:00 I went in that direction Feb 09 03:03:09 I didn't want the N900 being populated with work crap Feb 09 03:03:11 kamui__: Nokia Messages is awesome. Feb 09 03:03:26 so I set up rules in Groupwise to forward messages I deemed important to my personal google apps domain Feb 09 03:03:36 then from there sorted them into "lables/folders" Feb 09 03:03:39 works really really well Feb 09 03:03:46 ;] Feb 09 03:03:56 nokia messaging* Feb 09 03:03:56 I works well with calendar entries too Feb 09 03:04:13 I auto delegate calendar entries that are sent TO me or that I create in groupwise Feb 09 03:04:25 gmail auto accepts them via label rules into my calendar which is synced Feb 09 03:04:28 so I get the best of all worlds Feb 09 03:04:37 :-) Feb 09 03:05:22 kamui__: Calendar is not _such_ a massive problem. Ive got isynch now and my iCal is synched to my work cal Feb 09 03:05:41 + i've got a PA to remind me if there is something important. Feb 09 03:06:03 crashanddie: not tcp keepalive Feb 09 03:06:21 crashanddie: various protocol keepalives and handshakings that it might be plausible to coalesce Feb 09 03:11:27 however, 1 problem with that, wont that just saturate the bandwdth, ensuring that all the downloads would take longer, thus increasing the likelyhood that service interruption breaks one or more streams? Feb 09 03:14:57 granted, Im the sucker who bought the N900 despite the edge limitation on my network, but I used to easily exceed the max throughput on at&t on my N95 and on my gaybone 3Gs Feb 09 03:16:45 I can run wine Feb 09 03:17:04 but it segv's trying to do clone() Feb 09 03:17:25 it would be good if you did have a download manager but had a cap on downloads.... Feb 09 03:17:58 kamui__: sorry - I wasn't meaning for high bandwidth stuff Feb 09 03:18:01 so those that do have a cap won't go over their limit Feb 09 03:23:59 hello Feb 09 03:24:55 anyone here use t-mobile data on their n900? Feb 09 03:25:22 Damion2: why does it try to run clone, I thought it used pthreads these days? (btw, I used to be a wine dev) Feb 09 03:26:16 villager: isn't pthreads implemented by using clone() ? Feb 09 03:27:00 i'm having a problem with my data connection only working if i have 3g access, anyone else have this issue? Feb 09 03:27:51 svanheulen: I do - in the uk Feb 09 03:28:30 SpeedEvil: use t-mobile or have the same issue? Feb 09 03:28:59 rohanpm: I thought that was pre-nptl Feb 09 03:29:01 works for me Feb 09 03:29:26 villager: and I thought that was post-nptl :-) Feb 09 03:29:35 I'd only rate myself about 43% sure though Feb 09 03:30:27 rohanpm: no, it definitely used clone before they invented nptl... just wondering what they use after, I thought it would be new syscalls, not good old clone, though I haven't checked that Feb 09 03:30:56 hmm, let me check if I have the sources lying around Feb 09 03:31:45 villager: not sure, thats where strace gets to Feb 09 03:32:02 villager: I might compile my own, possibly quite old wine Feb 09 03:32:45 Damion2: which wine version are you using? Feb 09 03:32:45 I'm not sure how this was done on ppc in 2004 Feb 09 03:33:02 villager: very latest slackware one Feb 09 03:33:15 was ea+ieast extract Feb 09 03:33:19 Damion2: and that is+ Feb 09 03:33:22 ? Feb 09 03:33:40 sorry, I'm typing on my n900 Feb 09 03:33:54 Damion2: by the way the qemu status page says that x86 on arm is far from ready yet, I checked a few weeks ago, that could be why it doesn't work Feb 09 03:34:13 1.1.29 Feb 09 03:34:35 villager: I'm having reasonable success Feb 09 03:34:59 Damion2: except for that clone thing i guess? it's kinda important for running anything real, if pthreads indeed does use it Feb 09 03:36:49 quite a lot of stuff runs so far Feb 09 03:37:21 well, bzip2, ls, toppler (full sdl game) Feb 09 03:37:37 Damion2: single-threaded? Feb 09 03:37:41 indeed Feb 09 03:37:55 this could be a show stopper Feb 09 03:38:17 did wine alwayas fork in the early 00s ? Feb 09 03:38:26 s/fork/thread that is Feb 09 03:39:09 yes ever since it started supporting win32 to any useful degree... kinda necessary Feb 09 03:39:38 rohanpm: you're right, it still uses clone... Feb 09 03:40:18 at least these sources seem to if I read them right Feb 09 03:42:14 wait, there's a different directory here with nptl stuff Feb 09 03:43:18 nah the hockey Feb 09 03:43:34 well, still clone in it I guess Feb 09 03:43:43 just more clone flags Feb 09 03:46:28 villager: win16? Feb 09 03:46:51 Damion2: what? Feb 09 03:47:20 well did old wine not use clone back in the olden days? Feb 09 03:49:08 Damion2: in the very old days of win16-only it didn't really need to, no... but then win32 came along with that newfangled virtual memory and separate address spaces Feb 09 03:49:51 and kernel handles Feb 09 03:50:01 and other stuff Feb 09 03:51:10 clone was optional back then, probably only used if one process spawned another Feb 09 03:51:24 yeah I remember a several year period where it all got a bit less compatible Feb 09 03:51:49 * Damion2 has been a wine user since the early or mid 90s Feb 09 03:52:40 villager: if it avoided fork() old wine could run notepad.exe which might be seen as interesting on an arm linux phone :) Feb 09 03:53:23 if qemu supports 16-bit segmentation on arm, I guess Feb 09 03:54:17 I wouldn't consider notepad interesting though Feb 09 03:54:54 Damion2: perhaps you'll have to join the qemu devs to make it work... I considered it, but found other interesting stuff to do with the phone instead Feb 09 03:55:17 well if someone is interested in running bloomberg, you can find it there: Feb 09 03:55:18 http://www.inerd.me/ Feb 09 03:56:34 villager: yeah might have to join wine and qemu ML Feb 09 03:56:52 your username rings a bell Feb 09 03:57:27 distant bell, probably from comp.blah...wine Feb 09 03:57:47 could also be from debian Feb 09 03:58:29 no Feb 09 03:59:11 I always ignored debian. Too full of ranters with tin foil hats hugging trees and being vegetarian Feb 09 04:00:33 I must have missed that part of it, but then I don't usually pay attention to all the chitchat in debian either Feb 09 04:04:35 oh yea!~ Feb 09 04:04:39 freegin awesome! Feb 09 04:04:41 bootlooping :) Feb 09 04:04:51 well, I've been meaning to redo the phone anyway Feb 09 04:04:54 sheeit Feb 09 04:09:58 cpu usage is high when playing ogg vorbis is that normal Feb 09 04:11:29 n900 gets warm and battery drains Feb 09 04:18:01 kamui__: which point does it loop? (5 dots. Or even while rendering normal desktop). Any idea what caused it? Feb 09 04:20:10 lol Feb 09 04:20:10 yes Feb 09 04:20:11 and no Feb 09 04:20:13 no and yes Feb 09 04:20:21 it loops at the nokia screen before any dots iirc Feb 09 04:20:30 and it was caused by a poorly relinked /usr/share Feb 09 04:20:44 I knew that was risky business with pyoptifty Feb 09 04:20:52 but I figured if this didn't work I was reformatting and reflashing anyway Feb 09 04:21:09 DantonicN900: they probably haven't optimized the ogg decoder for arm, so uses a bit more cpu than needed? Feb 09 04:23:12 ffmpeg's vorbis decoder is on par with nokia's mp3 decoder iirc Feb 09 04:23:37 http://tuomas.kulve.fi/blog/2009/11/07/n900-battery-duration-ogg-vs-mp3/ Feb 09 04:27:28 where are the contacts stored on the n900 file system? Feb 09 04:27:34 I don't listen to much, so mp3 -> wav would work and I assume/hope is quite efficient Feb 09 04:27:51 guys, are emails/contacts/sms in rootfs? Feb 09 04:28:46 i think it's in home Feb 09 04:28:53 more likely /home/user/.something or /home/user/MyDocs/.something Feb 09 04:28:58 but I don't know Feb 09 04:29:06 I was hoping someone in here knew for sure Feb 09 04:29:15 I guessed /home/user as well, but I'm starting to have my doubts Feb 09 04:29:21 using / is unlikely, and was an old annoyance on S60 with small C: Feb 09 04:29:44 kk thx Feb 09 04:29:46 gah it's 04:30am :( Feb 09 04:31:17 anyone repartitioned the N900 Feb 09 04:31:26 Im curious if they made their opt space bigger Feb 09 04:31:30 regulatory purgatory Feb 09 04:31:38 and if it affected the 1.1 upgrade Feb 09 04:31:41 hi pupnik! Feb 09 04:31:46 aswesome news Feb 09 04:31:50 my N900 is bootlooping Feb 09 04:32:13 morning Feb 09 04:32:16 fwiw, I'm very close to getting a functioning encrypted fs set up so all personal settings are on the encrypted volume Feb 09 04:32:35 but it appears like some settings (like contacts and possibly the location of widgets on the desktop) might not be stored under /home/user Feb 09 04:33:11 so if anyone happens to have any insight on those things in particular, it would save me a lot of trouble Feb 09 04:33:34 does the user truly use the /var/lib/gconf/ databases? Feb 09 04:47:28 wow Feb 09 04:47:32 I reflashed my phone Feb 09 04:47:34 took under 1 minute Feb 09 04:47:36 amazing Feb 09 04:57:42 ShadowJK: and are they using the ffmpeg ogg decoder yet? doesn't seem to, looks like still using libogg Feb 09 04:58:28 yes Feb 09 05:06:51 nevermind, I figured it out. Looks like contacts are in /home/user but desktop widget locations and some other settings were in fact in /var/lib/gconf Feb 09 05:09:50 i'd like the charging meter to show the rate Feb 09 05:10:21 What charging meter.. Feb 09 05:10:35 the battery icon Feb 09 05:11:06 in my sleep i ripped out the charger again, now it's a very dodgy connection :( Feb 09 05:11:29 roh nopes Feb 09 05:13:09 http://barebox.org/documentation/barebox-2009.12.0/dev_omap_arch.html Texas Instrument's OMAP Platforms in barebox // a bootloader perhaps useful to maemo/mer? Feb 09 05:35:10 im gonna start using madde and mad-developer Feb 09 05:35:17 looks like I've been beating rocks together with the sandbox Feb 09 05:35:19 all this time Feb 09 05:35:58 if using madde, doesnt that introduce incompatibilities with the maemo builder? Feb 09 05:36:14 since you're in a crosscompiling environment, not the 'native' sdk.. Feb 09 05:36:26 don't know pupnik Feb 09 05:36:32 I haven't actually started yet Feb 09 05:36:35 I just read a little about it Feb 09 05:36:39 and it looks like it has great dev tools Feb 09 05:36:47 like remote deployment and execution Feb 09 05:36:56 that dont' require ridiculous setup on the handheld Feb 09 05:37:01 what is the url you're working from? Feb 09 05:37:10 the wiki article Feb 09 05:37:18 if htats what you're asking Feb 09 05:37:29 http://wiki.maemo.org/MADDE k Feb 09 05:38:29 thats is Feb 09 05:45:54 http://mer-project.blogspot.com/2010/01/small-but-important-update-in-pr11.html << cool how community contributions got included in pr1.1 Feb 09 05:48:19 olaaaaa Feb 09 05:48:27 alguie de espańaaaaaaaaaa Feb 09 06:02:41 ~ping Feb 09 06:02:42 ~pong Feb 09 06:06:45 duh, apt, er infobot is really scizoid Feb 09 06:18:52 these n900 knockoffs from china are funny/sad Feb 09 06:21:30 noklas? Feb 09 06:28:29 pupnik: n900 itself is an iPhone knockoff Feb 09 06:28:33 * RST38h hides promptly Feb 09 06:30:21 RST38h: you deserve to be kicked Feb 09 06:30:42 RST38h: ph34r Feb 09 06:30:47 * crashanddie stomps RST38h Feb 09 06:31:15 Find an iPhone somewhere, lay it over n900, compare Feb 09 06:31:21 lol Feb 09 06:31:26 best joke ever... not Feb 09 06:31:28 * RST38h has been surprised himself Feb 09 06:32:38 i see javis has upped libsdl-haa Feb 09 06:34:40 Any ideas which one consumes more battery: GPRS or 3G packet data? Feb 09 06:35:06 3G Feb 09 06:35:11 The only data transfers are generated by IM software Feb 09 06:35:53 I know 3G consumes more in idle. But is that the case also with active packet data? Feb 09 06:36:37 yes. Feb 09 06:36:46 ok Feb 09 06:37:14 Time to install the 2G/3G switcher widget then. Feb 09 06:38:40 Something that would switch modes on demand would be nice. Feb 09 06:46:03 hmm fun... openvpn pkg seems to just randomly stop being installable due to lack of liblzo2-2 Feb 09 06:47:39 do you get a lot of false thumbnails in media player and photo viewer? it is just embarassing... Feb 09 06:56:48 lol pupnik Feb 09 06:56:53 I do Feb 09 06:56:58 in some of my porn ;) Feb 09 06:57:03 the good stuff too Feb 09 06:57:14 It only took me about an hour Feb 09 06:57:22 but I managed to almost completely do a fresh installation Feb 09 06:57:26 and get everything back Feb 09 06:57:37 I don't look forward to reoptifying all my reinstalled crap Feb 09 07:00:10 fuckin smexy Feb 09 07:00:21 someone ported ethertool Feb 09 07:00:25 err, wireshark Feb 09 07:00:26 :) Feb 09 07:02:33 'ello Feb 09 07:03:19 commercial meets open source: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=43739&page=3 Feb 09 07:03:20 oh my Feb 09 07:08:07 mece, which response exactly? Feb 09 07:08:40 since page3 is meaningless to me as I have more than the default posts/page setup Feb 09 07:09:11 ruskie, sorry, I was just annoyed with this one: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=517096&postcount=26 Feb 09 07:09:48 I guess he didn't realize that maemo.org is the community and not nokia Feb 09 07:16:28 mece: It's the only game publisher we have who's actively involved in the community Feb 09 07:16:43 mece: we might want to be a little less "racist" towards him Feb 09 07:16:58 mece: crashanddie is right Feb 09 07:17:08 if he's a big company, or one of the bigger companies we have Feb 09 07:17:08 yep, I know. That's why I haven't answered the post Feb 09 07:17:15 and he's getting bad/mixed messages Feb 09 07:17:20 then we need to do something about it Feb 09 07:17:26 garage is indeed a disaster Feb 09 07:17:39 Commercial isn't necessarily bad, and if any open source zealot is going to start being difficult about it, you can be sure as hell that I'm going to storm in pretty hard Feb 09 07:17:40 well he doesn't need garage. just the account. Feb 09 07:18:13 also, since the app has built in payment thingamagig, he could just put it in ovi store free Feb 09 07:18:16 mece: the instructions need to make that clear Feb 09 07:18:20 In my opinion "commercial" is what needs to happen with Maemo asap... Feb 09 07:18:30 * timeless_mbp isn't sure we need more opinions Feb 09 07:18:36 * timeless_mbp thinks we need more people fixing our message Feb 09 07:18:42 timeless_mbp: the size of the company is irrelevant: it just takes one bad experience to kill Maemo's reputation -- especially if he's the first one Feb 09 07:18:54 * timeless_mbp ponders Feb 09 07:18:58 Because if it doesn't, Maemo will remain as the platform for nerds, and at some point it'll mean the end of it. Feb 09 07:19:03 you're not currently reading mozilla.org's thread about bugzilla Feb 09 07:19:06 Like Amiga. =) Feb 09 07:19:20 I've spent *months* campaigning Maemo inside my company, so that it would be taken as a serious platform Feb 09 07:19:39 crashanddie: http://groups.google.com/group/mozilla.dev.planning/browse_thread/thread/7d3a647586bab993/c18fa2c47475c804?q=%22Are+superfluous+comments+really+the+reason+bugs+go+unattended%3F%22#c18fa2c47475c804 Feb 09 07:19:42 The mixed reception of the N900 hasn't been the best of arguments to be honest Feb 09 07:19:45 i'm currently reading this thread Feb 09 07:21:40 timeless_mbp: long time since I saw Asa's name somewhere Feb 09 07:21:54 he kinda disappeared from my radar too Feb 09 07:22:06 but his comments in this thread made me reply "thank you" Feb 09 07:22:11 which i rarely do Feb 09 07:22:40 N900 doesn't represent the "final maemo" but if Nokia doesn't do things right at this point, it won't matter. It's gonna be really hard for Harmattan to save Maemo if Fremantle gets a bad reputation. Feb 09 07:23:12 interesting to see that we're seeing the same issue Feb 09 07:23:18 However, it's not the first time I heard about it Feb 09 07:23:47 sorry, which we/issue? Feb 09 07:23:52 is we = crashanddie + MiXu- ? Feb 09 07:23:56 no Feb 09 07:24:02 we = maemo community + bugzilla Feb 09 07:24:05 ok, just checking :) Feb 09 07:24:14 it's not quite the same issue, but it's pretty close Feb 09 07:24:27 Ubuntu had exactly the effect, same thing for backtrack as well, and thinking of it, quite a lot of projects Feb 09 07:24:29 note that mozilla.org has ~5 ways to send 'feedback' Feb 09 07:24:32 I'll have to run some numbers tonight Feb 09 07:24:57 bugzilla, hendrix, forums, newsgroups, mozillazine, support, 'ask a friend to do it' Feb 09 07:25:07 I mean, as popularity rises the signal-to-noise ratio always degrades, and this is true for nearly everything on the planet Feb 09 07:25:08 actually we also have reddit/digg/slashdot Feb 09 07:25:37 and yes, we definitely have engineers who read those expecting to convert some whines into bug reports Feb 09 07:25:44 bz and jesse certainly do for /. Feb 09 07:26:23 are we talking about the bugzilla is not a forum issue now? Feb 09 07:26:24 but the thread in mozilla.org comes w/ people who assume that infinite growth should still justify a guaranteed response to any bug filing Feb 09 07:26:32 mece: not precisely Feb 09 07:26:53 mece: the "isn't a forum" issue is part of it, as far as I can tell Feb 09 07:27:03 > it just takes one bad experience to kill 's reputation -- especially if he's the first one Feb 09 07:27:14 ^ that's the key Feb 09 07:27:58 yes. we need to adress his issues in that thread Feb 09 07:29:15 timeless_mbp: maybe you know this: is it possible to post a single article from a blog to maemo? Feb 09 07:29:21 timeless_mbp: or do you need half a subscription and approval and shite? Feb 09 07:29:32 sorry Feb 09 07:29:33 ? Feb 09 07:29:44 err, the maemo front page Feb 09 07:30:05 so, if your blog is aggregated, or if you have a project in garage Feb 09 07:30:14 you used to be able to land on some of the magic points Feb 09 07:30:46 i think these days mwwn or whatever is your easiest 'no subscriptions required' way to end up somewhere frontish Feb 09 07:30:53 personally, i've generally ignored front pages Feb 09 07:30:57 they're typically useless Feb 09 07:31:06 yeah, but I'm karma whoring Feb 09 07:31:12 at some point in the past year someone added random bug bits to the mozilla.org front page Feb 09 07:31:18 this surprised me Feb 09 07:31:21 but it isn't useful :) Feb 09 07:31:32 karma whoring? Feb 09 07:31:37 or buzilla bits? Feb 09 07:31:46 my thing Feb 09 07:31:55 hahaha Feb 09 07:32:02 karma whoring is quite useful Feb 09 07:32:12 well, especially with the upcoming elections Feb 09 07:32:20 i'd have said 'that' or 'that's' or maybe included some sarcastic bit if i were responding to you :) Feb 09 07:33:02 but hey, karma is frozen anyway Feb 09 07:33:32 doesn't extras have a non-free component where he could put just the pkg? Feb 09 07:33:33 I just want to prove that a relatively quiet member has the ability to get massive amounts of karma in very little time Feb 09 07:33:44 ruskie: the problem is the .deb Feb 09 07:33:51 ruskie: you can't just submit a .deb and have it be hosted Feb 09 07:34:26 erm Feb 09 07:34:31 I thought that was the point? Feb 09 07:34:40 to host the deb of non-free stuff that lacks sources Feb 09 07:34:42 yes, well you still have to package properly. Feb 09 07:34:47 and he doesn't want to do that Feb 09 07:34:51 ow Feb 09 07:34:56 ruskie: it does Feb 09 07:35:00 which is what annoyed me in the first place. Feb 09 07:35:08 but you need to find the right magic path for it Feb 09 07:35:19 and the advertising for that magic path is much worse than anything else Feb 09 07:35:25 and yeah even though I'm a Free Software zealot I see nothing wrong with commercial Free Software Feb 09 07:35:28 partially because maemo.org is an open source community Feb 09 07:35:36 my point is: it's not like you just go to maemo.org and click on "Upload my app" and click submit Feb 09 07:35:41 and partially because it's a nokia derived community Feb 09 07:35:56 nokia is terrible about message/fast pathing Feb 09 07:36:56 I'm still pretty sure that nearly 99% of this community would answer "because it's more secure, everyone can look at the source code" at a poll asking: "Why is Open Source important to you" Feb 09 07:37:15 heh Feb 09 07:37:40 +1 Feb 09 07:37:42 ok is there anything wrong with uploading to ovi as free and then getting the money his own way? Feb 09 07:37:48 my answer is "because it's my chance to get someone else to pay for my pizza + beer[alternative]" Feb 09 07:38:04 I'm trying to write an answer there.. Feb 09 07:38:31 http://sio2interactive.com/SIO2_iPad_and_iPhone_3D_Game_Engine_Technology.html nice to see these guys supporting N900 Feb 09 07:38:54 mece: oh, lemme first say "that's appreciated' Feb 09 07:39:05 but the answer should be in two pieces Feb 09 07:39:07 1. the anser Feb 09 07:39:11 s/ser/swer/ Feb 09 07:39:11 timeless_mbp meant: 1. the answer Feb 09 07:39:18 seriously Feb 09 07:39:33 2. at the end a note indicating that will work to improve the discoverability of 1 Feb 09 07:39:38 am I the only douche who isn't happy using the browser for every last browser capable thing? Feb 09 07:39:54 kamui__: how long have you had your n900? Feb 09 07:40:04 1 month almost on the dot Feb 09 07:40:09 and did you use the tutorial and watch the maemo5 ui team video tutorials? Feb 09 07:40:16 Is there a howto on uploading to non.free somewhere? Feb 09 07:40:18 that would be a negatory Feb 09 07:40:26 i didn't even know about them Feb 09 07:40:50 non-free even Feb 09 07:41:30 kamui__: http://www.youtube.com/user/Maemo5UITeam?blend=2&ob=1&rclk=cti Feb 09 07:41:41 mece, http://wiki.maemo.org/Uploading_to_Extras#.22non-free.22_packages ? Feb 09 07:41:55 kamui__: did you at least watch the getting started thing that was on your desktop? Feb 09 07:42:01 (it's in more... too) Feb 09 07:42:27 mece: hrm, is this guy expecting a form based ui? Feb 09 07:42:34 if he wanted to work w/ ovi, i bet he is Feb 09 07:42:56 timeless_mbp, possibly he either wants a nice GUI app for uploading or a web form to upload Feb 09 07:43:03 I guess. Feb 09 07:43:08 or even possibly a windows app Feb 09 07:43:16 given that we have a web ui for uploading sources to extras Feb 09 07:43:26 it's not at all unreasonable to ask for a web ui for uploading binaries Feb 09 07:43:33 I think he should go with ovi Feb 09 07:43:38 agreed Feb 09 07:44:01 so i think your reply should point to the dput thing with a note that you'll ask someone about a web ui for binaries Feb 09 07:44:20 but you also need to explain that maemo.org is a community and that garage is an incubator Feb 09 07:44:33 (you get to do a lot of explaining, and believe me, i really do appreciate that you're doing it) Feb 09 07:44:45 where the f... did liblzo2-2 disapear to... Feb 09 07:44:53 can't install openvpn because it's missing :( Feb 09 07:45:24 * timeless_mbp sighs Feb 09 07:45:32 * timeless_mbp kicks the calendar ui designer in absentia Feb 09 07:45:39 (since they're no longer working on maemo) Feb 09 07:45:51 the idea of posting 1000 alerts modally Feb 09 07:45:59 such that dismissing one just gives you the next one Feb 09 07:46:02 ... idiots ... Feb 09 07:46:21 you'd think they'd at least be vaguely aware of how ms outlook does meeting reminders Feb 09 07:46:23 butis there a forum for ovi developers somewhere? Feb 09 07:46:31 s/butis/is Feb 09 07:46:32 forum.nokia.com ? :) Feb 09 07:46:36 ok. Feb 09 07:46:45 sorry, that's me being Feb 09 07:47:13 but it's the best answer short of a better one, just be sure to indicate that as a maemo.org community member, you don't really know but hope that someone there would know better Feb 09 07:47:37 given that they were using ms office for their entire stint working on maemo5 ... Feb 09 07:48:43 heh, this is a nice license term in TI MBX drivers Feb 09 07:48:59 oh well I posted. I hope he goes with ovi. Ovi is supposed to be the place for apps like this. Feb 09 07:49:02 Stskeeps: have you read my 'badwords' files? :) Feb 09 07:49:21 mece: how can i find your post? Feb 09 07:49:32 please don't make me actually _use_ this thing :) Feb 09 07:49:52 Stskeeps: is the term confidential, or will you share? :) Feb 09 07:50:13 kamui__: sorry, have you started watching those? Feb 09 07:50:13 timeless_mbp, http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=517330&postcount=28 Feb 09 07:50:30 paraphrased: it's not OK to reverse engineer UNLESS it is needed to help interoperability with a independently developed computer program AND you notify TI what info you need AND TI informs IMG AND IMG doesn't enable you in due time Feb 09 07:51:02 hmm it is OK to clean room reverse engineer in the EU iirc Feb 09 07:51:10 under similar rules i think Feb 09 07:51:19 I'm a little scared that someone will jump in there and say something offensive to the game developer person Feb 09 07:51:38 Stskeeps: doesn't sound too unreasonable Feb 09 07:51:43 who sets 'due time'? Feb 09 07:51:56 timeless_mbp: 'reasonable period' Feb 09 07:51:58 mece: it's talk, isn't that a good bet? Feb 09 07:52:06 yep it is. Feb 09 07:52:26 mece: that's also the part of community growing up .. at least we've tried to build things on respect :P Feb 09 07:52:33 ruskie: clean-room reverse engineer doesn't exist un EU afaik Feb 09 07:53:09 ruskie: in france people are allowed to “observe and analyse” a program behavior Feb 09 07:53:20 yes well, this guy gets immidiate respect for being a developer, but if he starts _demanding_ stuff from the community, shit/fan interfacing could be imminent.. Feb 09 07:54:02 and is authorised to reverse engineer some parts if there's no available documentation and you keep it for yourself, don't cook a concurrent program and do it for interoperability Feb 09 07:54:21 I could get the law articles, later Feb 09 07:54:27 I think developers have been met with respect in most threads, but if you start acting like a douche, you're going to get flamed. Feb 09 07:54:46 Corsac, http://www.advogato.org/article/302.html Feb 09 07:55:02 Corsac: germany same rules Feb 09 07:55:12 Corsac, I'm guessing it streches a bit Feb 09 07:55:16 oh SI02 is a free open source game engine :) Feb 09 07:55:43 crashanddie: hey, i'm looking for someone who can guess how a program 'converts' Feb 09 07:55:43 Fri, 29 Jan 2010 15:27:59 -0500 Feb 09 07:55:44 into Feb 09 07:55:51 "-9/01/37 07:59" Feb 09 07:55:52 Corsac, so yes clean-room reverse engineering is possible in the EU Feb 09 07:55:55 I one I could make some nice open source games with his engine :) Feb 09 07:55:57 suggestions? Feb 09 07:56:10 infact it's the only way you can do it Feb 09 07:56:37 err. I type the kind of sense that is not... Feb 09 07:57:16 timeless_mbp: -9? Feb 09 07:57:53 yes Feb 09 07:58:37 timeless_mbp: a few more points to form a graph would help Feb 09 07:58:58 hmm uploading to non-free seem rather simple actually. Feb 09 07:59:10 DocScrutinizer: yeah yeah Feb 09 07:59:20 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=544359 if you're curious Feb 09 07:59:22 Bug 544359: was not found. Feb 09 07:59:27 i don't really know how many points there are Feb 09 07:59:30 dumb bot Feb 09 08:01:44 01/-10/-28163 09:59 PM Feb 09 08:01:49 is my favorite date :) Feb 09 08:02:23 nice Feb 09 08:02:33 mece, iirc most of the nintendo emulators(all?) are in non-free sadly Feb 09 08:02:42 * DocScrutinizer suspects some weird bitshuffling Feb 09 08:02:52 there's a few other bits but I think that's the main thing that's there Feb 09 08:03:21 timeless_mbp: it parses the Date field wrongly, that seems surprising as it's quite an easy feature to spot, so it's probably a 16 vs 32 vs 64bit conversion somewhere Feb 09 08:03:38 crashanddie: it's getting it wrong on all platforms Feb 09 08:03:48 my point exactly Feb 09 08:04:06 * timeless_mbp wishes someone would bisect that bug Feb 09 08:04:07 if it were doing a wrong cast at least one platform would have it right Feb 09 08:05:46 ruskie, ah, yes.. Fring is non-free I see. Feb 09 08:09:56 I tend to be more aware of non-free stuff since I try to avoid it Feb 09 08:22:26 hmm, I get the VisibilityFullyObscured -event but never the VisibilityUnobscured -event.. I have a simple X11 window with GLES2 content. any ideas what I'm doing wrong here? Feb 09 08:26:00 ruskie: but are you talking about non-free as in terms of freedom? Feb 09 08:26:12 jacekowski, yes Feb 09 08:26:24 not as in terms of price Feb 09 08:26:27 ehhh Feb 09 08:26:38 nintendo emulators are free as in freedom Feb 09 08:26:42 no Feb 09 08:26:52 ines and such aren't Feb 09 08:26:53 but bios which is packed with them isn't Feb 09 08:26:59 they are free as in price Feb 09 08:27:12 I'm talking maemo extras pkgs here Feb 09 08:27:19 not generaly available emulators Feb 09 08:28:39 btw. is there any way to get to N900 over usb cable Feb 09 08:28:54 as in ssh to it Feb 09 08:29:15 yup Feb 09 08:29:43 can you name it Feb 09 08:29:44 enable usbnet on both ends(I think on N900 it's by default when using nokia pc suite mode) Feb 09 08:29:54 on your host depends on what system you have Feb 09 08:30:06 i don't use linux on desktop Feb 09 08:30:14 what do you use? Feb 09 08:30:20 there are windows drivers as well iirc Feb 09 08:30:28 basically you need usb network support Feb 09 08:30:56 and I think cdc_ether I think Feb 09 08:31:53 you didn't really specify what you use so can't really help further Feb 09 08:36:37 i dont have the phone right here, but if i wanna write a script that launches my ssh username@domain. it's plain simple bash skript as in debian? or is there any other paramters that i have to consider? Feb 09 08:36:49 plain simple ;) Feb 09 08:37:02 nice Feb 09 08:39:59 * pupnik hopes lcuk is coming back to #irc sometime Feb 09 08:47:39 how is this html5 video not supporting free formats? Feb 09 08:47:56 it can't be freakin called html? if it's a closed google app Feb 09 08:48:33 hehe .. well done or? Feb 09 08:48:55 free formats as motion jpeg? Feb 09 08:48:59 or wut Feb 09 08:49:23 the spec doesn't specify the video format, it's up to the browsers to do that Feb 09 08:49:36 and mozilla is throwing a hissy-fit about h.264 and refuse to support it Feb 09 08:49:49 arrgs .. connecting over xvnc to xchat on the n900 opended the virtual keybaord .. fail Feb 09 08:49:58 ruskie: http://legifrance.gouv.fr/affichCodeArticle.do?idArticle=LEGIARTI000006278920 Feb 09 08:50:03 pff :P Feb 09 08:50:03 (french indeed) Feb 09 08:50:16 ruskie: I don't see anything about “clean room” there, nor in the blog post, tbh Feb 09 08:50:32 ruskie: he only says “we did it for samba-tng” Feb 09 08:50:40 Morning, all Feb 09 08:51:24 Morning Jaffa. Feb 09 08:52:17 Jaffa: I now see some warnings in the AM log about catorise desktop files. Feb 09 08:52:23 Jaffa: Already known? Feb 09 08:52:31 X-Fade: "Unknown desktop file"? Feb 09 08:52:45 ruskie: and anglo-saxon law is quite different from latin law, as I understand it (but IANAL) Feb 09 08:52:50 Jaffa: Yep. Feb 09 08:53:18 X-Fade: It's just a warning that it's going to put something in "Other" as no package seems to own the .desktop file. If there *is* a package which owns that .desktop, there is a bug Feb 09 08:53:21 "Initially, the HTML5 draft explicitly recommended Ogg Theora and Ogg Vorbis (as being patent-unencumbered, free of charge to implement, open source in the public domain - you can't make it more free than that). Due to opposition from Nokia and Apple, these were removed. Current HTML5 draft doesn't define a codec nor a container format, but you can define several streams if one doesn't work." Feb 09 08:53:51 Jaffa: Better keep the log clean? Feb 09 08:54:28 why would Nokia and Apple oppose those codecs? hard to coax onto mobile platforms? hard to drm? Feb 09 08:54:51 koala_man: You open yourself up for patent lawsuits. Feb 09 08:54:53 X-Fade: Maybe. Raise a bug - ideally, I think, it would log less when run from within HAM, but still log as now when running in X Terminal Feb 09 08:55:02 koala_man: Fears about submarine patents is the official reason Feb 09 08:55:03 koala_man: It is easier to just pay a fee and be sure. Feb 09 08:55:11 ah Feb 09 08:55:56 weren't patents once about supporting innovation? :/ Feb 09 08:56:00 US patent system is crazy, everybody is afraid of lawsuits. Feb 09 08:58:01 morning Feb 09 08:58:12 moorning Feb 09 08:59:08 koala: Patents are about lawyer salaries nowadays Feb 09 08:59:38 Corsac, it's probably known differently... or described differently... anyway moot point imho... if you can run it you can analyze it and EULAS are unenforcable in most jurisdictions anyway Feb 09 08:59:41 http://www.gadgetvenue.com/webgl-demo-nokia-n900-12031537/ WebGL demo running on N900 Feb 09 09:00:20 Corsac, but I see nothing wrong with first trying to get the company to release it... and if that fails offer to do it by yourself if they want to help and after that just do it Feb 09 09:02:23 ruskie: yes but at least in france you can analyse/observe all you want (but for example disassembling seems to be more than just observe/analyse). You can disassemble/RE *for interoperability reasons* (not for other ones, then) but you can't give information to third party and you can't develop a competitor program (which is weird since it's kind-of the point of interoperability, in a way) Feb 09 09:02:48 ruskie: the thing is, there was no judgement on that topic yet in France, so it's kind-of hard to say what the judges will decide in front of that Feb 09 09:02:56 (the law isn't that old either) Feb 09 09:03:10 and CS evolve way faster than law Feb 09 09:03:20 which needs time to settle down, afaiui Feb 09 09:18:17 RE: HTML5 video "Ideally, all browsers (including free ones) will be able to decode any format (including those under license) provided a codec for it (either a system one or an internal one) is installed." Feb 09 09:18:58 pupnik: did you read the rant by firefox authoers? Feb 09 09:19:23 they are explicitly avoiding HTML5/embeded video fnctionality that is !native. Feb 09 09:19:50 i understand them trying to push ogg/theora Feb 09 09:19:54 that is firefox will not let you use your own (system) codec to play HTML5/embeded video Feb 09 09:20:07 but will _only ever allow ogg/theora or other shitz that is free_ Feb 09 09:20:14 right, they want to use the strength of firefox to promote the open codecs to the providers Feb 09 09:20:24 which is FAIL on FAIL :) Feb 09 09:21:09 i think some convergence of video formats would be helpful. so the goal is good imo Feb 09 09:21:12 I'm sure an addon will hook into it sometime Feb 09 09:23:29 "No need to panic, you'll still be able to watch cats do zany things even if you're stuck in IE 7. " Feb 09 09:23:47 In a short perspective, avoiding commercial / proprietary codecs might be a a failure .... but in a long perspective, this is a good strategy Feb 09 09:23:47 *nobody* benefits from proprietary codecs which is full of patents and IP stuff Feb 09 09:23:48 (well, excepts the companies earning money on them, of course) Feb 09 09:23:58 From a users perspective, it's annoying if the website providing videos only provide "closed" codecs .... but when those websites understand that the point of using free/open codecs, this is no longer a problem Feb 09 09:24:02 * RST38h yawns Feb 09 09:24:35 and apple and chrome will not support the open codecs it seems Feb 09 09:25:23 apple has never been about promoting open standards .... even though they try to give that impression with the CUPS involvement ... but they're basically evil in the regards of being open Feb 09 09:26:34 Chrome will hopefully change their attitude ... Google is more interested in fairplay, even though they are getting a bit too dominant in a lot of things as well Feb 09 09:27:23 maybe this will still get solved satisfactorily when W3C ratifies the standard Feb 09 09:29:04 yeah, you might be right there ... but it's kind of a bad circle waiting for a standard to be ratified too .... standards become standards because they have a use case .... and they are tweaked on the way to standardisation. To then "sit on the fence" waiting for others to agree on the standard before beginning to implement it, is just slowing down the whole process Feb 09 09:29:29 good point Feb 09 09:30:23 Just look at the ISO-OOXML vs the currently implemented non-ISO-OOXML in MS Office .... Not even MS themselves seem to be in a hurry implementing their own standard Feb 09 09:30:47 well, they have their own standard .... but not implementing the ISO version they were fighting for Feb 09 09:36:39 dazo: iso-ooxml was not made for being implemented. it was for making noise so vendors would not move to odf Feb 09 09:36:57 LaTeX rules them all Feb 09 09:37:27 hrw: yeah, that's the reality :) I completely agree with you here Feb 09 09:37:35 http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=517434&postcount=416 <- some news on the MBX/N8x0 GLES 1.1 drivers Feb 09 09:37:45 stskeep oh cool Feb 09 09:37:47 lets see Feb 09 09:38:43 Stskeeps: which kernel is required for it? Feb 09 09:38:55 hrw: diablo kernel works fine Feb 09 09:39:09 nice Feb 09 09:39:13 and you need to set CONFIG_FB_OMAP_CONSISTENT_DMA_SIZE=8 Feb 09 09:39:59 that's nice Feb 09 09:40:14 stskeep in kernel-config? Feb 09 09:40:33 evening, folks :) Feb 09 09:40:35 woglinde: yeah Feb 09 09:40:47 it doesn't have space for flip buffers otherwise Feb 09 09:40:48 so kernel rebuild is needed anyway Feb 09 09:40:55 yeah Feb 09 09:41:03 or will you make all available via the repos? Feb 09 09:41:09 well, I'm sure Stskeeps or jebba will be delighted to build one for everybody :p Feb 09 09:41:16 woglinde, it was you working on qtnx, right? Feb 09 09:41:25 We can probably put it in the community ssu repo if it works fine ;) Feb 09 09:41:31 X-Fade: depending on license :P Feb 09 09:41:39 Stskeeps: Well kernel at least. Feb 09 09:41:44 yeah, kernel and module should work Feb 09 09:48:07 451 * It does generate unpredictive pseudorandom test data. Note this is just for testing. Feb 09 09:48:07 what does 'unpredictive' mean? Feb 09 09:48:26 zerojay: help? :) Feb 09 09:49:05 not predictable? as in you can't figure out what the next piece of data that comes out of it will be? Feb 09 09:49:19 ruskie, but that contradicts the pseudo- prefix Feb 09 09:49:25 in theory, at least, if not in intent Feb 09 09:50:44 jaem yes Feb 09 09:50:56 jaem but I dont have time at the moment for it Feb 09 09:51:16 woglinde, have you done any new builds since I last talked to you? I never got a chance to poke at the code, but the issue is annoying Feb 09 09:51:36 ...I have an OLPC and a loaner laptop to use NX on, but it would still be nice on the N900 :P Feb 09 09:52:06 what issues do you have with qtnx, jaem ? Feb 09 09:52:34 pupnik, I'm not entirely certain if it's qtnx itself or not, but the command line passed to nxssh appears to be truncated Feb 09 09:52:44 either that or it's just something more subtle and I misread it Feb 09 09:53:03 but as far as I could tell, it truncated the URL/IP, such that connections failed Feb 09 09:53:09 jaem nope no new build Feb 09 09:53:09 ok Feb 09 09:53:16 woglinde, fair enough, I understand Feb 09 09:53:18 fwiw, my clone is done Feb 09 09:53:31 oops, wrong window Feb 09 09:53:48 I realised I didnt pushed my latest patches from my external repos Feb 09 09:53:59 so I gave to figure something out to get it clean Feb 09 09:54:46 timeless_mbp, is it an evil clone, or just one to harvest organs from? Feb 09 09:54:49 ...or git? Feb 09 09:54:52 >:) Feb 09 09:55:09 jaem: cloning 100+ hg repos from symbian Feb 09 09:55:14 hmm Feb 09 09:55:25 cloning evil makes an evil clone, i guess? Feb 09 09:55:26 gadgetoid_mbp is timeless's clone IIRC ;) Feb 09 09:55:36 :) Feb 09 09:55:54 timeless_mbp, ah, mercury poisoning... that'd explain the criminal insanity Feb 09 09:58:30 those N900 desk stands from fake on t.m.o look pretty shiny Feb 09 09:58:43 I'm trying to convince my uni project team to get some so we can do a group order Feb 09 09:59:08 jaem: I'm just using my 770 stand. Works fine for N900. Feb 09 09:59:24 X-Fade, huh, that's neat... but I don't have a 770 Feb 09 09:59:37 jaem: Nice and rubbery too, so it doesn't slip on your desk. Feb 09 09:59:52 ...then again, the two N900s I currently have on me are nice Feb 09 09:59:53 :) Feb 09 10:00:04 especially the looks I get around campus from the people that recognize them Feb 09 10:00:15 engineering students get all the toys :) Feb 09 10:00:49 jaem: url please? Feb 09 10:01:03 X-Fade: that _very good_ Feb 09 10:01:16 which reminds me... what's the simplest way to do a screenvid aside from the status applet (which currently doesn't work)? My prof has been requesting one for our demo app for a while now. Feb 09 10:01:19 tybollt, coming up... Feb 09 10:01:28 tybollt, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=43593 Feb 09 10:01:46 frankly I've had it up to here w/ idiot companies making desktop stands w/out rubber feet so they slip n slide, fuck damnit that is so god damn irritating Feb 09 10:01:51 * tybollt is very angry now :S Feb 09 10:01:58 jaem: thks Feb 09 10:02:00 tybollt, this is just an individual with a laser cutter doing them Feb 09 10:02:08 and they have non-slip coating on the wooden ones Feb 09 10:02:13 ...not on the acrylic Feb 09 10:03:11 The stand on N900 is crap Feb 09 10:03:15 and the person who's making them took plenty of suggestions from forum users in the prototyping stage, so they should be good Feb 09 10:03:20 It's unstable if you have the keyboard out Feb 09 10:03:26 MiXu-, yeah, I was pretty disappointed, coming from the N810 Feb 09 10:03:44 ...which, by the way, also conveniently allowed me to hold it in one hand Feb 09 10:04:14 you can do the same thing with the N900's if your fingers are slim enough, but I'm always worried I'll snap it off, even if it saves me from dropping the phone Feb 09 10:04:21 Hmm. Now that you mention it, N900's stand can be used that way as well Feb 09 10:04:26 At least with my fingers Feb 09 10:04:35 i heard from bfree that a company is making an extended battery with custom back cover for n900 (!) Feb 09 10:04:55 pupnik, that'd be nice, but is it a company we can trust, or some sketchy eBay store? Feb 09 10:05:00 ..being a battery Feb 09 10:05:05 Not sure if I want one. Feb 09 10:05:07 dunno. but they could do a better stand Feb 09 10:05:15 mmn... yeah Feb 09 10:05:23 * timeless_mbp cries Feb 09 10:05:24 The size of N900 is the maximum I'm willing to have on a phone. Feb 09 10:05:27 i recently wrote some fun code Feb 09 10:05:31 but now i have no idea where Feb 09 10:05:47 we all lose our minds a piece at a time, timeless_mbp Feb 09 10:05:49 timeless_mbp, what sort of code? Feb 09 10:05:58 pupnik, you don't keep yours in git? *gasp* Feb 09 10:06:01 jaem: actually i think it's in the code you're thinking of :) Feb 09 10:06:26 it is :) Feb 09 10:06:38 pupnik: i think i lose more than one piece at a time :) Feb 09 10:06:39 * jaem was going to make some crack about it not being the code I was looking for, but then realized that he didn't have any idea which code is being mentioned Feb 09 10:06:48 s/I/he/ Feb 09 10:07:06 jaem: i just needed a piece to juggle a 'maybe list' Feb 09 10:07:14 timeless_mbp, which code? I'm confused Feb 09 10:07:15 which i've used a *lot* in the code you have from me Feb 09 10:07:38 ?? Feb 09 10:07:45 don't worry about it :) Feb 09 10:07:47 * timeless_mbp is happy Feb 09 10:08:18 * jaem is still confused Feb 09 10:08:22 don't worry about it :) Feb 09 10:14:53 tybollt, what do you think of the stands? Feb 09 10:16:24 jaem: they are nice, I'd buy one Feb 09 10:16:48 tybollt, and cheap, too Feb 09 10:16:55 ok Feb 09 10:17:06 I appreciate the price, but I feel bad, wondering if they guy's making much money from them Feb 09 10:17:44 I suppose that given the informality of the procedure, I could always add a bit extra to be nice :P Feb 09 10:18:05 he's ina US right? Feb 09 10:18:08 hrrm Feb 09 10:18:24 I'd love the acrylic but I _need_ the rubbery feet Feb 09 10:21:43 * timeless_mbp ponders Feb 09 10:23:20 timeless_mbp: you *lose* code? :p Feb 09 10:23:33 it usually takes me a few weeks or months before I manage to forget which machine I left something on Feb 09 10:23:35 w00t: what's wrong w/ losing code? Feb 09 10:23:45 i have ~5-10 machines i use regularly Feb 09 10:23:55 it's trivial for me to lose code Feb 09 10:24:05 plus i'm juggling 5-10 projects in 5+ languages Feb 09 10:24:12 I'm coding a "real" program for the purpose of using it on N900 for the first time ^^ Feb 09 10:24:23 c,c++,perl,python,javascript,english-fingrish Feb 09 10:24:25 (real as in not a quick little Python script made to download all the XKCD strips or something) Feb 09 10:24:40 timeless_mbp, sshfs and store it in one place? :) Feb 09 10:24:55 slonopotamus: grumble Feb 09 10:25:04 most of my code exists in at least 3 places Feb 09 10:25:18 in this case i was looking for a _code_pattern_ Feb 09 10:25:38 * w00t shoves everything into git repositories and pushes it back to one server Feb 09 10:25:48 there should be only two - working copy and repo where you push it to. Feb 09 10:25:57 which meant "which language did i use this in [oh duh]", "which projects was using this language [oh duh]", "where did i use this [oh right!]" Feb 09 10:25:59 yay, reflashing seems to have fixed my issue with the rootfs suddenly going readonly Feb 09 10:26:50 slonopotamus: i have 3: my mac because it's here, my vm, because i need it to build, remote because getting my vm to talk to my mac is painful and it enables me to do work from my n900 which doesn't always get along w/ my n900 either Feb 09 10:27:12 for mozilla, it's similar Feb 09 10:27:28 m-c + c-c's m-c, + remote's m-c (for pushing) Feb 09 10:27:39 so i typically have 3 nearly identical repos Feb 09 10:27:59 but an incomplete change is typically only going to be in one of those places Feb 09 10:28:22 for mxr, i have mxr-test, mxr for pushing, mxr.maemo Feb 09 10:28:35 so yeah, 3 seems to be my magic number :) Feb 09 10:28:57 all these johnny-come-lately distros thinking they understand embedded is... amusing Feb 09 10:29:09 which ones? Feb 09 10:29:38 Ubuntu Armel, Fedora Embedded Feb 09 10:29:48 are they really new? Feb 09 10:30:01 (not that i've ever seen anyone use them) Feb 09 10:30:33 'we can crosscompile too!' is the extent of it Feb 09 10:32:14 http://www.irregularwebcomic.net/comics/irreg2571.jpg Feb 09 10:32:33 Btw that fosdem app should be ringing alarm bells for everyone who likes the idea of QT on embedded. Feb 09 10:32:38 heh Feb 09 10:32:48 fosdem app? Feb 09 10:33:08 yes they wrote a schedule app for N900, iphone, openmoko and others Feb 09 10:33:19 timeless_mbp, LOL @ IWC :D Feb 09 10:33:27 I haven't read that in a while, but that one is epic Feb 09 10:33:35 n900 one takes about 300ms to scroll one frame down a list Feb 09 10:34:12 pupnik, wait, being a schedule app, isn't it a *good* thing for it to be ringing alarm bells? Feb 09 10:34:21 or are you talking about figurative mental alarm bells? :P Feb 09 10:34:27 basically fosdem app sucks totally when it comes to usability/speed Feb 09 10:34:45 but even such is better then just importing ical to maemo5 calendar Feb 09 10:34:47 * alterego wonders when the next firmware update for N900 comes out. Feb 09 10:35:08 timeless_mbp, lol :) Feb 09 10:35:16 ok, so... Feb 09 10:35:17 * timeless_mbp ponders Feb 09 10:35:24 how the heck do i do this? Feb 09 10:35:44 alterego: 2011.04.15 Feb 09 10:35:47 i have a set of 216 changes that i want to make Feb 09 10:36:08 on a tree which has hrm, say 10,000 files (probably way off, but whatever) Feb 09 10:36:30 how should i figure out which files to change? Feb 09 10:36:40 doing 216 recursive crawls seems like a terrible idea :) Feb 09 10:36:57 timeless_mbp: use git? Feb 09 10:37:07 how would that help? Feb 09 10:37:26 it's still 216 distinct commits no matter which dvcs i choose Feb 09 10:37:38 and that's because i *want* 216 distinct commits Feb 09 10:37:39 why d? Feb 09 10:37:45 pfft, after the first crawl, it'll all be in cache anyway *g* Feb 09 10:37:48 everyone is so needy about the "d" part? Feb 09 10:37:49 that reminds me... I read a sci-fi novel years ago in which they had a network of teleport gates that not only did virus-scan and rejuvenation, but also ran git on your body/consciousness Feb 09 10:37:58 not "git" by name, but essentially that Feb 09 10:38:03 timeless_mbp: you have those changes done and want to split them to 216 changes? Feb 09 10:38:06 tybollt: well, because it came as a dvcs from symbian Feb 09 10:38:16 hrw: no, i have calculated what the changes are Feb 09 10:38:27 you could just check out a copy of yourself, use it to take care of stuff you didn't care to do, and then merge it back in to master (you) and not miss a thing Feb 09 10:38:28 :) Feb 09 10:39:07 hrw: this is one commit: Feb 09 10:39:07 asynchronous: s/\basyncronous\b/asynchronous/ s/\bAsyncronous\b/Asynchronous/ Feb 09 10:39:07 s/\bASYNCRONOUS\b/ASYNCHRONOUS/ Feb 09 10:39:07 tybollt: distributed vcs allows me to work instead of waiting 5 minutes for each "svn diff" when repository is on other side of world on slow connection Feb 09 10:39:20 this is another: Feb 09 10:39:21 successful: s/\bsuccesfull\b/successful/ s/\bsuccessfull\b/successful/ Feb 09 10:39:21 s/\bSuccessfull\b/Successful/ Feb 09 10:39:44 * satmd has a fine idea Feb 09 10:39:55 emulating a usb keyboard Feb 09 10:39:59 timeless_mbp: I gave up as I do not understand Feb 09 10:40:03 I could boot my encrypted boxes that way Feb 09 10:40:13 hrw: i'm fixing spelling mistakes in a repository Feb 09 10:40:22 for each 'word' that's misspelled, i'm constructing one commit Feb 09 10:40:33 but the word isn't misspelled in one known file in the repository Feb 09 10:40:42 timeless_mbp: git init; git add .; git commit -m"initial" Feb 09 10:40:46 it's misspelled in n not particularly known places Feb 09 10:40:57 * timeless_mbp eyes hrw Feb 09 10:41:01 timeless_mbp: then run sed; git commit -m"sed: this->THIS" Feb 09 10:41:09 timeless_mbp: repeat until end Feb 09 10:41:12 timeless_mbp, so, what's the problem of using sed on whole tree? Feb 09 10:41:19 slonopotamus: 216 times? Feb 09 10:41:43 and the fact that sed doesn't have a --recursive flag in 'man sed' Feb 09 10:41:53 timeless_mbp: sed -e "s/this/THIS/g" `grep this -l -r *` Feb 09 10:42:06 find/grep + sed. Feb 09 10:42:13 grep will find all files, give filenames and sed with alter Feb 09 10:42:16 find, i guess. Feb 09 10:42:30 hrw: oh, there are dozens of ways for me to do this Feb 09 10:42:39 e.g. i have a box where there's an index for this, so i could use it Feb 09 10:42:41 timeless, write small perl/bash script that'll run sed and then perform commit :) Feb 09 10:42:52 slonopotamus: already doing that .... Feb 09 10:42:53 timeless_mbp, in a loop, i mean :) Feb 09 10:43:08 you don't honestly expect me to do the 216 commits by hand, do you? Feb 09 10:43:09 timeless_mbp, what does your _mbp stand for, btw? Feb 09 10:43:13 macbook pro Feb 09 10:43:18 oh Feb 09 10:43:23 same as everyone else's _mbp :) Feb 09 10:44:15 timeless_mbp, "mostly broken phone"? Feb 09 10:44:22 'not a phone at all' Feb 09 10:44:34 "my bad purchase" Feb 09 10:44:37 -snerk- Feb 09 10:44:40 sorry, couldn't resist Feb 09 10:57:18 * tybollt knows a few extremely very talented people writing some of the hairiest unix code you will imagine... Feb 09 10:57:41 these people use MBP and similar for their everyday tasks... so... :) Feb 09 10:58:20 I don't see SHINY ! knowledgeable as some will have it... Feb 09 10:58:46 ? Feb 09 10:59:28 * timeless_mbp runs sh -x ./doit.sh Feb 09 10:59:44 ok, this failed Feb 09 10:59:47 badly Feb 09 11:00:14 * timeless_mbp frowns Feb 09 11:00:17 so why did it fail? Feb 09 11:00:43 ENOLOLCATS? Feb 09 11:01:00 yeah, well 'erandomquotationmarksmakemecry' Feb 09 11:03:33 http://mxr-test.konigsberg.mozilla.org/symbian/source/MCL/sf/mw/accesssec/.hg/patches/acknowledge Feb 09 11:03:41 is a random example of a generated patch fwiw Feb 09 11:04:48 morning Feb 09 11:06:25 timeless_mbp, bad patch Feb 09 11:06:33 slonopotamus: why? Feb 09 11:06:55 timeless, acknowled should become acknowledged, not acknowledge. Feb 09 11:07:17 thanks Feb 09 11:07:42 * timeless_mbp updates the correction list Feb 09 11:07:51 feel free to look through the rest Feb 09 11:07:57 skip any file that's <100 in size Feb 09 11:08:13 (those are empty patches which failed to generate proper changes) Feb 09 11:08:44 http://mxr-test.konigsberg.mozilla.org/symbian/source/MCL/sf/mw/accesssec/.hg/badwords.txt Feb 09 11:08:48 is my current change set Feb 09 11:08:50 timeless_mbp, same file, lines 12-13... smth changed? Feb 09 11:09:09 the comment Feb 09 11:09:18 ah, yep Feb 09 11:09:23 the fact that the files have really long lines is so not my fault Feb 09 11:09:37 and i do not want to change anything else while i'm doing this Feb 09 11:09:49 it's bad enough that for 216 changes i'm really risking stuff Feb 09 11:09:59 (216 is a nice number btw) Feb 09 11:10:02 addiditional??? :) Feb 09 11:10:34 you mean http://mxr-test.konigsberg.mozilla.org/symbian/source/MCL/sf/mw/accesssec/.hg/patches/additional ? Feb 09 11:11:26 no, i mean its existe(a?)nce at all :) Feb 09 11:11:37 e. Feb 09 11:14:54 yeah well Feb 09 11:15:00 iirc this is the 'small' list Feb 09 11:15:13 http://mxr-test.konigsberg.mozilla.org/symbian/source/ Feb 09 11:15:22 this is from 'badwords.txt' not from 'appinstall-badwords.txt' Feb 09 11:15:34 2k of words leads to 216 changesets Feb 09 11:15:41 imagine what 11k of words leads to :) Feb 09 11:15:55 (271 lines v. 1181 lines) Feb 09 11:16:17 * timeless_mbp ponders Feb 09 11:16:25 some of them actually don't look bad Feb 09 11:17:00 note that the root badword*.txt files are first round, some words might be correct in which case they won't appear in the replacement list :) Feb 09 11:18:10 * pupnik decides that maemo text entry should correct some words to badwords at random Feb 09 11:19:21 argh... why firefox is so sluggish (on desktop) Feb 09 11:20:00 hrw, insufficient RAM? Feb 09 11:20:01 hrw, ... it always worked that way. Feb 09 11:20:06 excessive browsing? Feb 09 11:20:21 jaem: 8GB in machine Feb 09 11:20:23 my friend generally uses about as much RAM from FF alone as I have in my primary desktop Feb 09 11:20:28 slonopotamus: I know Feb 09 11:20:33 ~2GB Feb 09 11:20:35 >_< Feb 09 11:20:43 32644 hrw 20 0 1089m 307m 33m D 4.5 3.9 8:39.07 firefox-bin Feb 09 11:21:07 and then he has to use about two to three other browsers to get all the uni sites and a few others to work properly Feb 09 11:21:08 heh Feb 09 11:21:13 that's why i'm not using FF Feb 09 11:21:37 * jacekowski is a opera user Feb 09 11:22:12 It's easy to fcuk FF up with some bad extensions. Feb 09 11:22:21 mhm, how to get to internal memory on n900? Feb 09 11:22:24 over usb in storage mode Feb 09 11:22:25 jacekowski: in 2020 when opera will gain features of ff 3.6... I maybe will switch Feb 09 11:22:34 hrw: name them Feb 09 11:22:36 jacekowski: SSH/SCP Feb 09 11:22:40 hrw: because opera have them all Feb 09 11:22:43 MiXu-: over usb Feb 09 11:22:54 jacekowski: Yes. You need usbnetworking for that. Feb 09 11:22:56 scp is too slow Feb 09 11:23:02 MiXu-: on windows xp? Feb 09 11:23:21 On windows you need a virtual machine with linux =) Feb 09 11:23:38 That's how I used to access N900 back in the day. Feb 09 11:23:51 jacekowski: extensions: firebug, greasemonkey, greader notify, delicious, webdeveloper Feb 09 11:23:54 is there any nice way to kill any apps accessing internal phone memory? Feb 09 11:24:05 power off the phone, jacekowski Feb 09 11:24:11 jacekowski: and opera does not want to look like my kde4/gtk apps Feb 09 11:24:22 hrw: opera firefly, Feb 09 11:24:29 hrw: userJS Feb 09 11:24:51 hrw: greader notify - is that RSS thing? Feb 09 11:24:57 hrw, Opera is stock Qt, no? Feb 09 11:25:07 yes Feb 09 11:25:19 you just need to use -style to tell it to use specific style Feb 09 11:25:20 jacekowski: it checks how much unread entries greader has Feb 09 11:25:23 jacekowski, hmm... as far as Feb 09 11:25:26 -- yes Feb 09 11:25:28 that was it Feb 09 11:25:39 hrw: you can make/get button for that Feb 09 11:25:45 although if it does anything fancy, that may not be sufficient Feb 09 11:26:20 and opera has widgets Feb 09 11:26:26 jacekowski: and I want font antialiasing... Feb 09 11:26:56 opera uses qt settings for that Feb 09 11:27:32 opera has everything Feb 09 11:27:44 so does ME IE6 Feb 09 11:27:52 according to some users Feb 09 11:28:04 have you ever tried it? Feb 09 11:28:55 hrw, links!!! Feb 09 11:29:24 opera has everything? even an open-source licence??? Feb 09 11:29:42 oh nice, a flash got rid of my angry birds save Feb 09 11:29:50 jacekowski: I used msie2/4/5/5.5/6/7/8, phoenix/firebird/firefox, opera 5-10, few gecko based ones, links, elinks, lynx (my first browser), aweb, voyager, ibrowse, safari, icab/macos7, opera/zaurus, safari, few others Feb 09 11:31:07 you forgot about www Feb 09 11:35:48 heya everyone Feb 09 11:35:56 jacekowski: ? Feb 09 11:35:58 hi wazd Feb 09 11:38:12 hiya, wazd Feb 09 11:46:14 Grr, I shouldn't have compressed this filesystem image. Feb 09 11:46:19 night Feb 09 11:46:52 wtf, why is there a different login for talk.maemo.org and maemo.org? :P Feb 09 11:49:53 historical reasons, probably Feb 09 11:49:54 MiXu-: different software packages, and no SSO Feb 09 11:50:07 MiXu-: Because the are completely different servers and applications. Feb 09 11:52:11 I understand the technical reasoning, but it's bad usability. Feb 09 11:52:22 GeneralAntilles: ping Feb 09 11:52:23 GAN900: ping Feb 09 11:52:26 MiXu-: It is also had to solve ;) Feb 09 11:52:31 *hard Feb 09 11:52:36 X-Fade: you'll do Feb 09 11:52:46 X-Fade: how can I get a blog post aggregated on planet? Feb 09 11:52:50 MiXu-: Get in touch with reggie, danielwilms and X-Fade with an offer to help set up the necessary integration Feb 09 11:52:54 crashanddie: Me me me :) Feb 09 11:53:08 X-Fade: There's an "Aggregate your blog" link which says to email X-Fa^Wplanet@maemo.org ;-) Feb 09 11:53:38 Hm. You'd think fixing stuff like that would be in Nokia's interest Feb 09 11:53:53 Btw, extras-devel is finally getting a cleanig atm. Feb 09 11:54:18 So by the end of the day it won't be as insanely big and heavy to load as it is now ;) Feb 09 11:54:36 will it backup the old versions somewhere? Feb 09 11:54:43 (i'm thinking GPL requirement if we give out binaries) Feb 09 11:54:45 Stskeeps: I have a trash dir ;) Feb 09 11:54:50 Stskeeps: And sources stay there. Feb 09 11:54:52 good Feb 09 11:55:06 Stskeeps: But I will move sources later to a GPL store location. Feb 09 11:55:23 X-Fade: just give you a link and ask nicely? Feb 09 11:55:28 (why did i feel like the communist party representant on a ship right there? :P) Feb 09 11:55:34 Need to write a script to detect license and then move the gpl ones. Feb 09 11:55:35 X-Fade: so no more 11 versions of app in extras-devel? Feb 09 11:55:44 X-Fade: just keep all sources Feb 09 11:55:46 hrw: correct, only 8 for now ;) Feb 09 11:55:50 hrw: of course. Feb 09 11:56:19 I do the first run with 8 to be sure everything is ok. Feb 09 12:01:28 Anyone tried the maepad? Feb 09 12:02:39 For me it makes a weird extra dot in the beginning of every "line" Feb 09 12:05:01 MiXu-: same here Feb 09 12:08:50 X-Fade: "du" checks my local sources mirror for over 12 minutes now Feb 09 12:09:20 hrw: sources won't change now though. Feb 09 12:11:52 hrw@home:~$ du -hs devel/sources/dl_dir/ Feb 09 12:11:54 X-Fade: can you add this to planet: http://arrogantandcondescending.blogspot.com/2010/02/me-too.html ? Feb 09 12:11:54 30G devel/sources/dl_dir/ Feb 09 12:12:38 crashanddie: Can you create a maemo specific feed? Feb 09 12:12:48 dunno Feb 09 12:12:59 X-Fade: yeah, don't add the other 500 posts :P Feb 09 12:13:08 X-Fade: I can probably add a tag? Feb 09 12:13:15 crashanddie: tag them with maemo and give me the feed for that tag ;) Feb 09 12:13:16 MiXu-: Re "in Nokia's interest"; maemo.org is a community-run site Feb 09 12:13:18 timeless: how should we do this? Feb 09 12:13:26 Jaffa: I know Feb 09 12:13:29 X-Fade: oh, ok Feb 09 12:13:43 But it has Nokia's support, right? Feb 09 12:14:10 X-Fade: can you get RSS for specific tags? Feb 09 12:14:28 w00t: blogger supports that, yes. Feb 09 12:15:02 hrrm Feb 09 12:15:06 * w00t wasn't able to find it earlier Feb 09 12:15:18 MiXu-: Nokia pay for the hosting and pay for a few members of staff. danielwilms is a Nokia employee also working on the SSO task. However, people like X-Fade seem to have far more to do than the number of hours in a day... Feb 09 12:15:55 X-Fade: you wouldn't have an example of what that URL would look like? Feb 09 12:16:13 X-Fade: I've added the tag maemo, but still no idea how to get an rss around that tag Feb 09 12:16:20 I'm a blogger noob. I just write Feb 09 12:16:57 http://www.clariusconsulting.net/blogs/kzu/archive/2007/11/16/41836.aspx looks relevant Feb 09 12:17:59 hmhm shouldn't extra uploads give karma? Feb 09 12:18:14 crashanddie: http://arrogantandcondescending.blogspot.com/feeds/posts/default/-/maemo?alt=rss Feb 09 12:18:26 http://arrogantandcondescending.blogspot.com/feeds/posts/default/-/maemo Feb 09 12:18:28 heh Feb 09 12:19:39 Jaffa: Ok, I see. But like I said. I think it would be in Nokia's interest to make sure that maemo.org is a positive experience for people. Most people don't know that maemo.org is community-driven. Feb 09 12:20:03 MiXu-: Yes and no. That is what maemo.nokia.com is for. Feb 09 12:20:16 MiXu-: That is Nokia's Maemo frontend. Feb 09 12:20:17 MiXu: well paying for hosting and paying people like X-Fade.. I think their doing it.. don't they? Feb 09 12:21:04 crashanddie: added to the planet. Feb 09 12:21:36 X-Fade: name "Sebastian Lauwers" ? Feb 09 12:21:39 anidel: Yes. Feb 09 12:22:11 crashanddie: That is what it says, yes. Feb 09 12:22:20 X-Fade: cheers :) Thanks Feb 09 12:22:39 crashanddie: Will take up to an hour to be fetched. Feb 09 12:22:51 ok, no problem, thanks heaps Feb 09 12:23:30 X-Fade: mind adding me while you're at it? Feb 09 12:23:38 w00t: yes. Feb 09 12:23:41 w00t: :) Feb 09 12:23:56 Lunch first, then we'll talk. Feb 09 12:24:00 alrighty Feb 09 12:24:03 bon appetit Feb 09 12:27:17 is there any toolchain avaliable for n900? Feb 09 12:28:21 anidel: lol at your comment on the human firewall thread Feb 09 12:28:55 crashanddie, eheheheh Feb 09 12:29:02 huh Feb 09 12:29:16 crashanddie, reading your post... I like the line "I feel like I'm losing the thread of the thought...." me too! :P Feb 09 12:29:29 the KDE website says maemo.org is working on support for the services provided initially by OpenDesktop.org Feb 09 12:29:39 is there any info on that? That's the first I've heard Feb 09 12:29:57 ahhh I hoped to had an answer to that question... Feb 09 12:36:25 anyway 'unzipped' is quite nice indeed :D zip it in a condom or leave it zipped and you're fine :p Feb 09 12:36:42 services provided by opendesktop.org? what do they provide? other then the web browsable stuff Feb 09 12:37:41 ruskie, the Open Collaboration Services API... in KDE's software, it supports integrated content sharing (e.g. wallpaper download/upload, sysmon worksheets, projects in some of the Edu apps, etc.) Feb 09 12:37:54 * RST38h yawns and idly asks what's up in the wonderful (sic) maemoworld Feb 09 12:37:58 and there's also some social networking aspects, as well as a knowledgebase Feb 09 12:38:04 ow Feb 09 12:38:09 I think there's more, as well, which I just haven't seen exposed Feb 09 12:38:26 jaem: Anyone actually using this stuff? =) Feb 09 12:38:31 Jaffa: read that post if you have the time Feb 09 12:38:32 RST38h, KDE is Feb 09 12:39:16 jaem: Is KDE a person? Feb 09 12:39:16 ruskie, RST38h, I think their Grand Plan is to voluntarily absorb all the data from the (closed) social web, and then free it all, and make it integrated with the Free Desktop Feb 09 12:39:41 RST38h, no, but due to recent rebranding it now has been disambiguated to refer to the community or the project Feb 09 12:39:44 jaem: They should keep their grand plan for their psychiatrist Feb 09 12:39:47 lol Feb 09 12:40:09 jaem: but, closer to the ground, is anyone actually *using* these features of KDE? Feb 09 12:40:14 "KDE" used to be used to refer to the people, the organization, the DE, the apps, the dev platform, and their webmaster's cat Feb 09 12:40:22 Or are they like Google Wave? Feb 09 12:40:24 Hmh, how long has wiki.m.o been down? Feb 09 12:40:24 now they've made it more complicated, but less confusing Feb 09 12:40:44 RST38h, yes, most of what I mentioned has been in there for a while, and the rest is new in 4.4 Feb 09 12:41:04 e.g. when you go to choose a wallpaper, there's a button that you can click to search and install/update new ones Feb 09 12:41:06 same with themese Feb 09 12:41:10 themeses* :P Feb 09 12:41:42 and if you use their physics sim in your class, you can (IIRC) upload your projects so that other schools/people can use them Feb 09 12:41:47 etc. Feb 09 12:41:59 there's a knowledgebase widget so you can search for help from your desktop Feb 09 12:42:08 and other stuff Feb 09 12:42:12 so yes, it is widely used Feb 09 12:42:18 but not all of the features, yet Feb 09 12:42:32 some of them weren't well-exposed before Feb 09 12:42:50 and also, OpenDesktop.org is currently the only provider, which somewhat limits the usefulness of some aspects Feb 09 12:42:57 what they have is cool, though Feb 09 12:45:41 jaem, do you have the link to that blog post/info ? Feb 09 12:47:08 VDVsx, oh yeah, I was going to paste it, and then I got distracted :P Feb 09 12:47:26 http://www.kde.org/announcements/4.4/applications.php - just short of halfway down, under "OpenDesktop" Feb 09 12:47:37 that page is still pre-release, FYI Feb 09 12:47:47 jaem, thanks Feb 09 12:47:48 it's due for actual publication a bit later today, I think Feb 09 12:47:54 as I said, it's the first I'd heard Feb 09 12:47:58 hi Feb 09 12:47:59 although it would be cool Feb 09 12:48:00 hey Feb 09 12:48:33 is garage.maemo.org having problems? Is that why I can't login on maemo.org? Feb 09 12:48:57 *sigh*... someone go reboot the 770 in the closet ;) Feb 09 12:50:03 :) Feb 09 12:50:05 jaem, yeah, and they are referring directly to maemo.org not Maemo or Nokia, so the community, news for me as well :D Feb 09 12:50:41 VDVsx, yeah, I noticed the distinction, and I was curious as to who they'd talked to Feb 09 12:50:46 maybe I'll poke someone on #kde Feb 09 12:51:17 although that would be a nice thing for Maemo/Nokia to get on board with, given the amount of system integration that we'd ideally want Feb 09 12:51:20 -shrug- Feb 09 12:54:30 VDVsx: Daniel's app uses an API for downloads which uses the opendesktop standard. Feb 09 12:54:45 X-Fade, which app? Feb 09 12:54:48 which Daniel? Feb 09 12:54:51 VDVsx: *social desktop Feb 09 12:54:56 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=43872 <-- hmm Feb 09 12:55:19 jaem: appdownloader Feb 09 12:55:32 X-Fade, ah, okay Feb 09 12:55:40 that uses the OCS API, or something else? Feb 09 12:55:45 jaem, http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Download_client_for_extras-applications Feb 09 12:55:48 jaem: OCS yes. Feb 09 12:56:06 X-Fade, ah, neat Feb 09 12:56:24 is that integrated with maemo-apps.org, then? That seemed to be defunct last time I looked at it Feb 09 12:56:36 jaem: That created the need to extend the ocs api spec, so talk is going on with them. Feb 09 12:56:52 jaem: maemo.org services are at .... maemo.org ;) Feb 09 12:58:30 X-Fade, I figured, but I never looked into the origins of maemo-apps.org, and it seemed to be part of the OpenDesktop.org family, so I wasn't sure Feb 09 13:02:24 X-Fade: I had to reverse engineer danielwilms' code to find the API though (and I still think the downloads numbers are massively suspect ;-)) Feb 09 13:02:38 Jaffa: there is a bug for that ;) Feb 09 13:02:48 Jaffa: And yes, downloads are orders of magnitude higher. Feb 09 13:02:48 Jaffa, you mean like Apple's "app sales" stats *cough* Feb 09 13:02:54 ;) Feb 09 13:03:03 Than what is shown on the site. Feb 09 13:03:08 jaem: Yeah, but I don't care about them. Feb 09 13:03:09 oh wait... you can't "pirate" Free apps :P Feb 09 13:03:13 Jaffa, I was kidding Feb 09 13:03:17 jaem: indeed Feb 09 13:17:32 hello Feb 09 13:18:11 i'm just wondering how complicated it would be to create iphone api emulator for n900 Feb 09 13:18:49 jacekowski: There's some threads on tmo about it Feb 09 13:19:07 jacekowski: "Probably too hard" is the best answer Feb 09 13:19:44 Jaffa, a few years ago, people asked the same thing about windows compatibility layer Feb 09 13:20:04 it would be amusing to run iphone apps within maemo Feb 09 13:20:20 as someone said... Feb 09 13:20:48 99.9999% of iphone apps are basically remakes of webpages that their retardo-browser can't handle Feb 09 13:20:49 well, it's same CPU Feb 09 13:20:57 both kernels are posix compatible Feb 09 13:20:59 those pages works in n900 Feb 09 13:21:03 so no need really Feb 09 13:21:19 it's just translating syscalls and emulating iphone display features using X Feb 09 13:21:23 tybollt, that is true Feb 09 13:21:29 jacekowski: dude what are you smoking? Windows is fricken posix compatible :) Feb 09 13:21:38 tybollt, ...either that or stupid things that are amusing for about 5s Feb 09 13:21:40 lcuk: By "a few", read "over ten" and it's still not complete and has taken hundreds of man years of effort. Feb 09 13:21:55 tybollt, for some values of "compatible", with addons Feb 09 13:22:02 jaffa, the mighty oak is grown from a single seed Feb 09 13:22:04 disclaimer: I haven't actually used said addons Feb 09 13:22:11 lcuk, not if I *BURN* the seed Feb 09 13:22:12 My favorite iPhone app is the one that has a video of a flame in it. And nothing else. Feb 09 13:22:16 lcuk: I didn't say it wasn't *technically* possible Feb 09 13:22:22 lcuk, what are you talking about, by the way? Feb 09 13:22:24 indeed Feb 09 13:22:25 * jaem looks confused Feb 09 13:22:26 lol Feb 09 13:22:39 MiXu-, isn't that on TV at Christmas, too? :P Feb 09 13:22:52 Oh, the "beer pint simulator" also rocks my world. Feb 09 13:23:21 jacekowski: How complete is the iPhone OS documentation on API; packaging; execution? How available is it without being a paid iPhone developer? Feb 09 13:23:22 I thought about trying to code grayscale emulation for my Logitech G15 keyboard so I could have Happy Flames to *cough* warm my hands over while coding in the winter Feb 09 13:23:23 :P Feb 09 13:23:40 I've seen some pretty cool iphone apps. I mean apps that were actually useful. There was this ski resort mapping thing that was pretty sweet. very fast and smooth. Feb 09 13:24:00 Sure there are good ones also :) Feb 09 13:24:16 lcuk: how was fosdem? :) Feb 09 13:25:20 jacekowski: Not only do you have to have a complete set of APIs, you also have to have implementations of things like CoreGraphics and CoreAnimation which may not have a direct Maemo equivalent (though, I'd guess, Qt 4.6 may make it easier) Feb 09 13:26:38 frals, amazing actually, loads of n900s around and lots of buzz in most areas. some great talks and even greater people participating Feb 09 13:26:56 jaem, mmm greyscale emulation? Feb 09 13:26:56 lcuk: nice :) Feb 09 13:27:09 how are you after returning from helsinki Feb 09 13:27:10 question: does anyone know if the n900 can receive "blackberry broadcast messages" ? Feb 09 13:27:14 lcuk, well, the keyboard only has a monochrome LCD Feb 09 13:27:34 backlit with orange Feb 09 13:27:36 jaem, yeah but how do you program it? Feb 09 13:27:58 but while I understand the principles behind grayscale emulation, I didn't have the coding skills at the time to do it with that hardware Feb 09 13:27:58 Jaffa: it's not that complicated Feb 09 13:28:08 Jaffa: it might be hard to make it efficient Feb 09 13:28:20 lcuk: great - got lots of stuff im working on :D Feb 09 13:28:24 Jaffa: but in the end X proto isn't that different Feb 09 13:28:33 lcuk, there's a library to do it - the problem is that something (not sure if it's hardware or software) latches the image when you "send" the buffer to the screen Feb 09 13:28:44 only downside its really busy in uni as well, so dont have time to code (on fmms) as much as i want Feb 09 13:29:04 so cycling through sub-frames while still responding to requests to update the (actual) frame requires threading Feb 09 13:29:11 which I'm actually just covering now in class Feb 09 13:31:07 well, up untill not so long ago there was no real multithreading Feb 09 13:31:12 it was just emulated Feb 09 13:31:38 jacekowski, I mean threading in terms of code Feb 09 13:31:49 which I didn't know how to do at the time Feb 09 13:31:51 so I shelved it Feb 09 13:32:04 since the utility of the code would have been somewhat limited anyway Feb 09 13:32:14 I may do it some time, though, for practice Feb 09 13:34:06 jacekowski: Sounds like you'll have it well in hand then. Even a proof-of-concept would be cool. Feb 09 13:35:57 hmm... I think I may have misread that Feb 09 13:41:26 Is there "real" GPS navigation software (I bet if there is it is commercial, but why not?) beyond Ovi Maps? Feb 09 13:42:29 dottedmag, I believe MaemoMapper is in -devel or -testing, but I don't know if it would fall under your definition of "real", seeing as you haven't defined it Feb 09 13:43:46 jaem: turn-by-turn voice guide, recalculating path if you miss the highway exit etc. Feb 09 13:44:16 Just the features you get from off-the-shelf "hardware" GPS navigator. Feb 09 13:45:15 oh Feb 09 13:45:50 yes, it does all of that, but you need the "backseat driver" plugin, which costs a lot to maintain, and has to be fed Feb 09 13:45:51 ;) Feb 09 13:46:02 sorry, yeah, unfortunately nothing that good yet Feb 09 13:46:03 :( Feb 09 13:46:26 Ovi or MM are pretty ok if you just walk around in unknown city, but for driving through several countries with lot of highways it's just a bit awkward Feb 09 13:46:58 And yeah, backseat driver is a good solution :) Feb 09 13:47:19 most versions of it don't have a C API, unfortunately Feb 09 13:47:30 and the ones that do tend to ask for higher salaries Feb 09 13:47:45 OTOH some versions pay for gasoline :) Feb 09 13:48:02 mm... good point Feb 09 13:49:16 !summon slonopotamus Feb 09 13:49:28 okay, no luck in replacing 4 devices with single n900 :) Feb 09 13:49:52 dottedmag, just replace them with *4* N900s! Feb 09 13:49:57 :) Feb 09 13:50:53 I can't replace them even with 1000 N900s. Unless they will grow an AI being connected to network and write some decent navigation software :) Feb 09 13:51:07 dottedmag: MM? Feb 09 13:51:12 tybollt: maemo mapper Feb 09 13:51:21 Nokia's CEO promised N900 will have navigation Feb 09 13:51:31 he did? Feb 09 13:51:36 and when? Feb 09 13:51:43 (when promised) Feb 09 13:51:44 * tybollt surprised the guy even know wtf a n900 is Feb 09 13:51:44 :D Feb 09 13:51:51 also Feb 09 13:52:08 MiXu-: It already has. Feb 09 13:52:16 http://www.electricpig.co.uk/2010/01/21/nokia-n900-to-get-nokia-ovi-maps-free-navigation/ Feb 09 13:52:22 X-Fade: well, it's mapping, not navigation. Feb 09 13:52:26 MiXu-: Just no voiice navigation ;) Feb 09 13:52:29 But wait. Actually the quote talks about maemo, not n900. Feb 09 13:52:35 haha... someone was trolling on an unpublished article on the KDE Dot news site Feb 09 13:52:37 Text nav works. Feb 09 13:52:46 I had to mention it in #kde-www, and they weren't terribly impressed Feb 09 13:52:49 XD Feb 09 13:53:45 MiXu-: "eventually" Feb 09 13:53:45 hah Feb 09 13:54:08 you have to understand what "eventually" means in the nordics to parse that proper Feb 09 13:54:17 Anyone wanting to test providing library shims for cross-device compatibility could make a start on Diablo's libgpsbt to liblocation. Then we can run Wayfinder from an N810 :) Feb 09 13:54:47 For the record: http://www.sygic.com/ - see the "maemo coming soon" Feb 09 13:54:49 Which meets all the criteria above for a "real" GPS and, amazingly, looks like a fantastic app when compared wih Ovi Maps Feb 09 13:54:51 in the nordics, hell eventually freezes over Feb 09 13:54:53 tybollt: Yes, just noticed that myself. Feb 09 13:55:01 But I'm hopeful :) Feb 09 13:55:49 I'm gonna have to buy Sygic if Ovi Maps doesn't get navigation... Feb 09 14:00:03 I have a satnav thing in the car Feb 09 14:01:28 tomtom shitz Feb 09 14:02:14 its my subscription just ended so need to renew :S Feb 09 14:02:55 har anyone found a decent car mount for the n900 btw? Feb 09 14:03:13 Couldn't find one last weekend :/ Feb 09 14:05:13 tybollt: seen one that looked sane on Amazon, but it did not have micro-usb cable built-in Feb 09 14:07:27 tybollt: http://www.brodit.com/?main=productinformation.jsp&anr=511099 Feb 09 14:07:42 Wow, just found the bluetooth watch stuff .. I wan it! :D Feb 09 14:09:44 hi Feb 09 14:09:53 MiXu-: kiitos. Feb 09 14:10:04 alterego: ? Feb 09 14:10:10 http://www.smartmadsoft.com/forum/index.php?action=vthread&forum=16&topic=176&page=0 Feb 09 14:10:52 ah Feb 09 14:10:59 * tybollt has a bluetooth watch but not that kind Feb 09 14:11:04 i can login to maemo.org, but can login to garage. what could be wrong? Feb 09 14:11:26 i can not login to maemo.org, but can login to garage. what could be wrong? Feb 09 14:11:59 tybollt: np :) Feb 09 14:12:35 different passwords perhaps Feb 09 14:12:36 Elerion: What page on maemo.org are you trying to log in on? Feb 09 14:13:14 Use the force, Luke! And if that doesn't work, turn it off and then back on again! Feb 09 14:13:40 Elerion: There are three accounts, currently: 1) http://bugs.maemo.org; 2) http://talk.maemo.org; 3) everything else.maemo.org. However, the passwords are held in Garage and synchronised everywhere else for #3, so changes on Garage can take a while to propogate to, say, http://maemo.org/downloads/ (X-Fade will correct me if I'm wrong) Feb 09 14:14:00 J: http://maemo.org top-right corner Feb 09 14:14:15 Elerion: Username lower case? Feb 09 14:14:19 Jaffa, does that mean if I change my Garage password, my maemo.org password will follow it? Feb 09 14:14:50 because I can't for the life of me find a "change password" option on the main maemo.org site, and I have been wanting to do so for quite a while now Feb 09 14:16:20 J: yes. lowercase. I registered to garage 2 months ago. it should be propagated by now... I never could login to mainpage btw. Feb 09 14:18:11 Jaffa: correct. Feb 09 14:18:34 Meh, SDL is quite slow on N900. Feb 09 14:19:17 do you use gles through sdl like you do with regular gl? Feb 09 14:19:59 is there away for "n900 users" to chat with "blackberry messenger" users? Feb 09 14:22:05 ie: yes, you can meet them face to face and chat. If they are willing to chat with someone not wearing a tie of course Feb 09 14:22:58 actually, that's very funny Feb 09 14:23:10 :D Feb 09 14:23:17 moderately so Feb 09 14:23:23 elaborating on that.. Feb 09 14:23:27 RST38h, bwahahaha Feb 09 14:23:29 nice one ;) Feb 09 14:23:38 you know... I once met a bleckberry user... who wasn't wearing a tie...! Feb 09 14:23:40 RST38h too bad i dont wear a suit Feb 09 14:23:53 tybollt, yeah, I once saw a pink flying unicorn Feb 09 14:24:25 ...but it was a plush toy... and had apparently crash-landed in a bush near my townhouse Feb 09 14:24:26 XD Feb 09 14:24:26 * rmt waves. Feb 09 14:24:34 so yes... *ahem* Feb 09 14:24:43 The channel's grown a little since last time I was here. :-) Feb 09 14:24:54 woah, yeah, it has Feb 09 14:24:57 * jaem hadn't noticed Feb 09 14:25:04 well, goodnight #maemo Feb 09 14:25:11 er... morning Feb 09 14:25:58 Moin Feb 09 14:26:12 hi all!!! Feb 09 14:26:14 If any of you want to help out promoting the latest release of the KDE software compilation, it'd be greatly appreciated! Feb 09 14:26:15 Here is the announcement on the dot: http://dot.kde.org/2010/02/09/kde-software-compilation-440-released Feb 09 14:26:17 Feel free to comment ;-) Feb 09 14:26:18 blog, tweet, dent, and help us dig and reddit: Feb 09 14:26:20 http://digg.com/linux_unix/KDE_Software_Compilation_4_4_0_Introduces_new_innovations Feb 09 14:26:21 http://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/azx29/kde_software_compilation_440_introduces_netbook/ Feb 09 14:26:23 The more the merrier and thanks in advance for helping us out :D Feb 09 14:26:24 screenshots and more can be found on flickr and youtube, tagged KDE44 - feel free to add to the stream! Feb 09 14:26:26 If you want to follow what is going on live, visit http://buzz.kde.org Feb 09 14:26:59 jospoortvliet, I'll probably blog tomorrow, if I get time off from studying :P Feb 09 14:27:02 Happy KDE Day! Feb 09 14:27:11 and thanks! Feb 09 14:27:23 jaem: thanks to you too ;-) Feb 09 14:27:52 jospoortvliet, It runs under Maemo ? Feb 09 14:28:01 sure Feb 09 14:28:02 on N900, howto tell mplayer not to scale video to fullscreen ? Feb 09 14:28:05 haven't you seen the screencasts? Feb 09 14:28:17 Passeli, I think there's a switch for that Feb 09 14:28:26 rmt: KDE software runs even on symbian so how could Maemo ever be difficult? Feb 09 14:28:45 jospoortvliet, is the Plasma Mobile shell in a runnable (I didn't say "usable") condition? Feb 09 14:29:09 jospoortvliet, Just wondering if you were spamming or whether it was related to the channel. Feb 09 14:29:12 Chani was saying they were going to be hacking on it at Tokamak, but I don't feel like waiting until she gets back :P Feb 09 14:29:18 jaem: well, if you feel up to compiling it and all - some have provided packages but it's not a regular effort... Feb 09 14:29:36 rmt: it IS related, come on guys, maemo & KDE are close friends ;-) Feb 09 14:29:45 rmt, well, KDE and Maemo have some loose ties at any rate, so I think "spamming" is a bit harsh Feb 09 14:29:47 come to think of it, maemo is mentioned in the feature guide. Feb 09 14:29:51 cookies for who finds it... Feb 09 14:29:58 jospoortvliet, already found it Feb 09 14:30:01 darn Feb 09 14:30:03 that was fast Feb 09 14:30:04 lol Feb 09 14:30:10 a few hours before said guide was released :P Feb 09 14:30:14 hey Feb 09 14:30:15 it made me happy Feb 09 14:30:35 lol Feb 09 14:30:40 jospoortvliet, (re: Mobile shell), that's what I was wondering Feb 09 14:30:59 I just didn't want to check it out from Playground and mess around with it only to find out it was horribly broken Feb 09 14:31:05 I installed the n900 SDK just to see how the maemo 5 OS is... I can't find the xterm in the gui of the maemo OS... Can't I access the terminal in the SDK? help anyone? Feb 09 14:31:40 jaem: the situation is simple: there is nothing official, no team really dedicated to this - but all of KDE software is build on Qt, runs on any linux, and there WILL be efforts starting today to get a good KDE plasma workspace on mobile devices. Feb 09 14:31:53 Maemo has a good chance of being the primary development OS. Feb 09 14:32:02 jospoortvliet, yeah, that's what I figured Feb 09 14:32:07 Cool. Feb 09 14:32:09 I was just asking about the state of the code Feb 09 14:32:12 but good to know Feb 09 14:32:23 TheShader: apt-get install osso-xterm, iirc Feb 09 14:32:46 speaking of which, is there a virtual package for installing all the stuff that a fresh N900 comes with? Feb 09 14:33:09 thanks,, I'll try that Feb 09 14:33:20 koala_man, whatever the metapackage that HAM shows as "Maemo 5" for SSU updates is called ,presumably Feb 09 14:33:35 I'm not actually sure what it is called, though, since HAM gives the pretty names for things Feb 09 14:33:56 hey frals where should I enter that command, in the scratchbox right? Feb 09 14:34:02 yeah Feb 09 14:34:31 in the armel or x86? Feb 09 14:34:59 depends on in which target you want it i assume Feb 09 14:35:12 <- dont really know the sdk env that well Feb 09 14:35:22 TheShader: the x86 one Feb 09 14:35:24 im sure someone else in here does though *looks around* Feb 09 14:35:51 kk thanks alot Feb 09 14:38:19 I've written a small app in C which I compiled in scratchbox and which is running smoothly. But if I copy over the binary to my n900 and want to launch it using run-standalon (or without that), it says "line 1: syntax error: "(" unexpecte Feb 09 14:38:23 d Feb 09 14:38:27 which is rather confusing, as this is a binary. Feb 09 14:38:33 why would it check syntax and stuff Feb 09 14:38:51 how exactly are you running it? Feb 09 14:39:01 what's the binary called? Feb 09 14:39:15 cd loungecontrol; run-standalone.sh ./iculounge Feb 09 14:39:59 Shapeshifter: Probably the binary has the wrong architecture. Feb 09 14:40:16 what does "file iculounge" say? Feb 09 14:40:17 thorbjorn: ahh, right! Feb 09 14:40:40 umm, file: not found. I guess I need to install file. Feb 09 14:40:58 so, right. I need to compile it for ARM. >.< Feb 09 14:41:01 "sb-conf se FREMANTLE_ARMEL" in scratchbox before compiling Feb 09 14:41:21 thanks. Feb 09 14:41:22 * w00t hugs MADDE tightly. Feb 09 14:42:12 madde is a girls name in .se Feb 09 14:43:15 tybollt, pronunciation? Feb 09 14:43:26 for the Maemo tool and the name, if you know both Feb 09 14:45:57 I installed the n900 SDK to see maemo 5... I installed xterm for it but can't get root access by typing "sudo gainroot" it returns me "must be setuid root". so what should I do? Feb 09 14:46:36 You don't need root in scratchbox Feb 09 14:46:37 the user on maemo(scratchbox) doesn't have root priviledges? Feb 09 14:46:45 but I can't install nano for maemo Feb 09 14:46:47 jaem|away: sorry don't speak phonetic Feb 09 14:46:53 Theshader, use fakeroot Feb 09 14:46:58 sudo apt-get install nano, or apt-get install nano Feb 09 14:47:10 yeah it works now. I simply forgot to compile for ARM. thanks guys. Feb 09 14:47:35 tybollt, fake it - I don't either Feb 09 14:48:02 jaem|away: Madde is pronounced [::!#"&=)!="#);LFEWKO=!"#R?=3f::] Feb 09 14:48:06 ok.... fakeroot on maemo Feb 09 14:48:36 tybollt, that was a little more fake than I was hoping for, but fair enough Feb 09 14:48:39 ah I got an error Feb 09 14:48:47 jaem|away: :-D Feb 09 14:48:55 4 programs not found on PATH Feb 09 14:48:59 what is PATH? lol :D Feb 09 14:49:26 TheShader, PATH is a shell environment variable that tells the shell where to look for programs that you don't refer to by their full path Feb 09 14:49:30 run echo $PATH Feb 09 14:49:34 to see what it is currently Feb 09 14:49:46 or export PATH=$PATH:/something/else to add to it Feb 09 14:50:02 beyond that, Google "bash environment variable", or some such Feb 09 14:50:31 essentially, if you type in "qmake" as opposed to /opt/qt4-maemo5/bin/qmake, then it doesn't know where to find the program Feb 09 14:50:41 unless /opt/qt4-maemo5/bin is in the PATH Feb 09 14:50:50 it's more or less the same on Windows, actually Feb 09 14:52:03 hehe I know less in windows Feb 09 14:52:23 cause it doesn't belong to me, but this thind does so at least I can learn Feb 09 15:03:59 mh, so my app segfaults on the n900, but not in scratchbox. I'm installing gdb. Are there any specifics to look out for? my app uses curl and segfaults when it should do something using curl. Feb 09 15:06:47 unaligned memory access? Feb 09 15:07:00 what does OMAP3 do in that case? Feb 09 15:07:09 Shapeshifter: dont forget to compile it with -g -O0 Feb 09 15:07:25 (your app_ Feb 09 15:07:40 mgedmin: it doesn't like it, I believe Feb 09 15:07:41 there was a switch in /proc on a n800, IIRC, and you could choose segfault, emulation or silent data corruption (default) Feb 09 15:07:46 but I haven't actually checked Feb 09 15:07:59 thoughts? http://www.flickr.com/photos/slauwers/4343015069/sizes/l/ Feb 09 15:08:17 torindel: mhh, okay. Feb 09 15:08:35 hi again Feb 09 15:09:18 just wanted to let you know that something is wrong with new user registrations Feb 09 15:09:37 for garage? Feb 09 15:09:42 I just registered the account "testreg" and confirmed the email address Feb 09 15:09:56 login on garage.maemo.org works, but not on maemo.org. Feb 09 15:10:05 even though I started the registration process on maemo.org Feb 09 15:10:12 afaiu the user database is not synchronized instantly Feb 09 15:10:21 sjaensch: takes up to an hour to be synced. Feb 09 15:10:23 ^ Feb 09 15:10:40 mgedmin: ah, thanks for telling me. That account can be deleted btw ;) Feb 09 15:10:43 maybe new servers are less loaded and could do it more often? Feb 09 15:10:52 * mgedmin <- innocent bystander with no access to maemo servers Feb 09 15:11:42 might be a good idea, since it's weird that people register for maemo.org, but the account doesn't seem to work there (at first) Feb 09 15:12:00 maemo servers? Feb 09 15:12:02 hmm Feb 09 15:12:06 Maemo Servers edition Feb 09 15:12:07 sjaensch: It does say that clearly when regisering. Feb 09 15:12:09 now we're talking Feb 09 15:12:25 sjaensch: even when login doesn't work ;) Feb 09 15:12:29 "if it's clearly documented, then it's not a bug" Feb 09 15:12:52 X-Fade: where? I must have missed that Feb 09 15:13:51 sjaensch: login with random name an wrong password. Feb 09 15:14:02 mgedmin: if it's documented, specified, and explained it's not a priority Feb 09 15:14:14 sjaensch: 'Note to new users' :) Feb 09 15:14:55 X-Fade: oh you're right, I did indeed miss that. Feb 09 15:15:05 * mgedmin prefers the phrasing "we would like to fix it, but we have a lot of more important things to do first" Feb 09 15:15:17 crashanddie, pong? Feb 09 15:15:35 incidentally, I have a couple of year-old patches for irclogs2html to apply... Feb 09 15:16:44 i met martin guy, who turns out to be really knowledgeable about arm, debian, eabi Feb 09 15:17:22 looks like some of this stuff went into sbox Feb 09 15:24:37 I can see the Archos 5 Internet Tablet running with Maemo :D Feb 09 15:31:16 anidel: I saw archos7 running OE Feb 09 15:31:43 derived distro Feb 09 15:32:08 pupnik: Martin Guy - I met him too. nice guy, lot of knowledge Feb 09 15:32:26 yeah that's the guy *cringe* Feb 09 15:32:28 anidel: hmm? Feb 09 15:33:29 "Why cant i play music whilst on a call?" Feb 09 15:33:32 * crashanddie facepalsm Feb 09 15:33:44 * crashanddie typo-fails Feb 09 15:33:57 face psalm! Feb 09 15:34:10 Because there's not enough CPU power to handle the MP3 decoding and the GSM decoding, clearly! Feb 09 15:34:18 s/decoding/encoding/2 Feb 09 15:35:13 http://wiki.debian.org/ArmEabiPort Feb 09 15:37:01 Stskeeps, almost same hardware.. Feb 09 15:37:07 anidel: well, omap3 or omap2? Feb 09 15:37:20 Stskeeps, Cortex-A8 Feb 09 15:37:24 ah Feb 09 15:38:22 Stskeeps, but 128Mb of RAM.. shame.. same 800x480, 3D chipset (no idea which one) but bigger screen Feb 09 15:38:35 anidel, it's an OMAP3. Feb 09 15:38:45 anidel, the 3D chipset is the EASIEST THING TO GUESS. :P Feb 09 15:39:07 GeneralAntilles, touche' Feb 09 15:39:14 GeneralAntilles: one of the non nokia provided media players I had on the 9300, maybe oggplay used to play mp3s whilst on a call, and the caller could hear it Feb 09 15:39:30 Damion2, sorry, I'm just being sarcastic. ;) Feb 09 15:39:41 shame it mounts a drive though.. Feb 09 15:40:03 oh, it's a perfectly normal thing to ask, why the face palm ? Feb 09 15:40:18 pulseaudio should permit it too I guess Feb 09 15:41:29 Yeah, it's certainly doable Feb 09 15:41:34 anidel: you forget the legal aspect; Nokia apparently will not license Maemo to third party products Feb 09 15:41:50 as far as Mer, it wouldn't need the same hardware anyway :P Feb 09 15:42:07 It's just not setup that way since most the Nokia designers assumed (correctly) that most people don't want to listen to music while on a call. Feb 09 15:47:50 luke-jr: well, I'm not so sure about that Feb 09 15:48:29 luke-jr: the recently published guide looks like they intend to Feb 09 15:49:35 I can see it either way. Feb 09 15:49:54 Either they try to do apple - and maintain control of the software and hardware Feb 09 15:50:18 Or they go the IBM route, and license the software while still trying to provide a compelling hardware solution Feb 09 15:50:37 whats worse for the battery, keeping it always full by leaving it plugged in or cycling it 1-2 times a day? Feb 09 15:50:48 ibm had a compelling hardware solution Feb 09 15:51:00 they sold it to big (china) monneh Feb 09 15:51:06 yeah :/ Feb 09 15:51:09 * Corsac cries Feb 09 15:51:13 * tybollt cries Feb 09 15:51:20 * w00t cries Feb 09 15:51:24 (but I still love my T61) Feb 09 15:52:03 Corsac: last thinkpad I bought - entirely lenovo, no hints of IBM left - SL300 is so poor bad shitty I'd actually go for an acer if I had the chance today ;) Feb 09 15:52:11 SL300 is not a thinkpad Feb 09 15:52:17 I agree! Feb 09 15:52:18 try playing stuff with zoutube, then switching to other apps, like media player. you will see sprinkles of the zoutube video displayed behind the other app Feb 09 15:52:18 it's renamed ideapad Feb 09 15:52:23 Corsac++ Feb 09 15:52:47 Corsac: I got it over the T400 on account of it including free 3G built in Feb 09 15:52:49 pupnik: that's due to overlaying Feb 09 15:52:51 tybollt: it's not an opinion, it's facts, there's nothing common (in the inside) between thinkpads and ideapads Feb 09 15:52:55 but meh :( Feb 09 15:52:56 tybollt: arg. Feb 09 15:52:59 pupnik: this is why media player pauses video when you switch away :) Feb 09 15:53:00 RST38h: http://lenta.ru/news/2010/02/08/battleship/ Feb 09 15:53:00 * SpeedEvil has the x60s. Feb 09 15:53:07 I love it. Feb 09 15:53:12 SpeedEvil: ah. some odd error Feb 09 15:53:12 yes I have the X60 at home Feb 09 15:53:18 RST38h: I can't beleive it Feb 09 15:53:19 I wish they kept making 4:3 Feb 09 15:53:24 RST38h: no f*cking way :) Feb 09 15:53:35 Corsac: mind I used to think that getting "thinkpad" got you a thinkpad... but not so anymore... Caveat emptor! Feb 09 15:53:49 well Feb 09 15:53:57 I had the X200 at my last employer Feb 09 15:54:00 * tybollt <3 Feb 09 15:54:16 yeah, i would accept an x200s :) Feb 09 15:54:23 I never liked Thinkpads Feb 09 15:54:30 thinkpad is/was an example of compelling hardware Feb 09 15:54:33 to some anyway Feb 09 15:54:43 indeed Feb 09 15:54:56 they always broke so quickly Feb 09 15:55:06 backlight went out, then HD a few months later Feb 09 15:55:37 * mgedmin loves thinkpads Feb 09 15:55:40 * tybollt still think the keyboard light in the top of the lid is the finest piece of engineering imaginable :) Feb 09 15:55:57 strangely, mine die very soon after I've replaced them with a newer thinkpad and given the old one to a coworker Feb 09 15:56:07 * pupnik is not regretting buying a keyboard with trackpoint for the desktop Feb 09 15:56:32 me enjoys x60, 3 years without problem Feb 09 15:56:58 great looking too, those x60s Feb 09 15:57:01 * mgedmin would kill for a wireless keyboard with a trackpoint ... Feb 09 15:57:34 i never saw any ps2 to bluetooth adapters mgedmin Feb 09 15:58:11 mgedmin: get wireless usb hub Feb 09 15:58:32 mgedmin: regular ibm kbd /w trackie -> wifi usb hub -> WIN Feb 09 15:59:20 and I carry around *two* devices tied with a wire? Feb 09 15:59:23 doesn't get rid of cables. but i'd be curious to see any usb wifi Feb 09 15:59:24 kinda defeats the point Feb 09 15:59:27 heh Feb 09 15:59:40 oh Feb 09 15:59:42 * mgedmin needs keyboard + mouse to control his TV, which is just a big monitor attached to an asus eeepc Feb 09 15:59:54 I thought this was about being too far from the screen, heh ;P Feb 09 15:59:59 there are some trackball variants Feb 09 16:00:22 mgedmin: you want the logitech kbd, the dinovo mini Feb 09 16:00:30 there are some keyboards with integrated touchpads Feb 09 16:00:41 haven't seen any in any local computer shop Feb 09 16:00:46 mgedmin: dinovo mini!!! Feb 09 16:00:52 or in any local online shop Feb 09 16:01:00 no trackpoint Feb 09 16:01:10 dinovo mini!!!! fer crying out loud Feb 09 16:01:24 I've been using that for couple of year for my HTPC now, awesome shitz Feb 09 16:01:26 and I kinda assume no foreing shop will want to ship electronics into this unheard-of-third-world-EU-country called Lithuania Feb 09 16:01:47 also, sadly my eeepc has no bluetooth Feb 09 16:01:54 I've got an external dongle that doesn't work well Feb 09 16:02:02 trying bluemaemo with it was utter FAIL Feb 09 16:03:01 mgedmin: .se ships to latvia - no? Feb 09 16:03:16 dunno, never tried to ship anything to latvia Feb 09 16:03:20 amazon doesn't Feb 09 16:03:26 amazon ships books and dvds, not electronics Feb 09 16:03:37 ehr Feb 09 16:03:45 SpeedEvil, long term I see them licensing, but not short term. Feb 09 16:03:48 lithuania - sorry =) Feb 09 16:04:14 * tybollt consistently mix up those two (lithuania and latvia :S) Feb 09 16:04:35 in alphabetical order from north to south Feb 09 16:04:48 mgedmin: buy PS3 bluetooth remote instead of keyboard+mouse? Feb 09 16:05:27 bluemaemo would suffice, if it *WORKED* Feb 09 16:05:45 tried it with my thinkpad that has integrated bluetooth -> kinda works for a while, then stops Feb 09 16:05:59 bluetooth is the worst tech I've ever had the misfortune to attempt to use Feb 09 16:06:15 hmm yeah Feb 09 16:06:45 it's hard to tell if bluetooth is a shitty tech or if it is just a bunch of REALLY crappy engineers implementing support for it? :) Feb 09 16:13:54 In my experience CSR - CSR is the most reliable Feb 09 16:14:34 ISSC is garbage, Ti is crap, and broadcom us usable. (in my experience) Feb 09 16:19:32 huge mugen battery is fail. just 2400mAh (i expected 3000 at least), ugly back door, no stand, always open camera and damn overpriced :-( Feb 09 16:20:03 uhm do they offer a standard sized too? Feb 09 16:20:41 yes Feb 09 16:20:43 Arkenoi: Just buy another battery for a few $ and have twice the capacity ;) Feb 09 16:20:43 and how does the camera slide switch work? Feb 09 16:20:50 Arkenoi: url? Feb 09 16:21:19 the standard size "1800mAh" battery is about 1200mAh Feb 09 16:21:20 http://www.mugen-power-batteries.com/nokia/nokia-n900/mugen-power-nokia-n900-2400mah-extended-replacement-battery-with-battery-door.html Feb 09 16:21:21 Arkenoi: ah it is that much bigger then? Perhaps naive I expected _same_ form factor :S Feb 09 16:21:30 i am not going to buy that crap :-( Feb 09 16:21:34 oh, N900 Feb 09 16:21:39 1600-1800 (but real, not marketing mah) would be nice Feb 09 16:22:09 the 1800mAh "normal" size for N800 was 1200mAh real Feb 09 16:22:18 yeah Feb 09 16:22:28 insane size Feb 09 16:22:34 would be interesting to see if that's 2400 real or marketing Feb 09 16:22:38 ShadowJK, they are targeted at poor 5800 users who cannot measure battery capacity on the phone itself ;-) Feb 09 16:23:04 ? Feb 09 16:23:12 powertop is available for n900 now?= Feb 09 16:23:16 well how does it work without camera switch? Feb 09 16:23:30 tybollt: it always was .. extras-devel or so Feb 09 16:23:37 Arkenoi: you know that the design capacity figure is reported by the battery itself, and not checked by the device, right? :-) Feb 09 16:24:08 cehteh: :S Feb 09 16:24:13 cehteh: NOW you tell me Feb 09 16:24:20 Arkenoi: 'draft photo' thats only a mockup anyways Feb 09 16:24:42 But really, if they claim more capacity in the same space as Nokia's battery, then you know it's marketing inflation :-) Feb 09 16:25:04 ? Feb 09 16:25:07 why Feb 09 16:25:11 * Arkenoi wonders why such a ridiculous price - e90 battery (3600mAh) was about $50 Feb 09 16:25:42 powertop came preinstalled on my N900, first production firmware. It's not included in firmwarre images though Feb 09 16:25:55 it's entirely plausible , if not expected, tyhat nokia marketeers make the company ship weak batteries so that the users have a reason to upgrade to N910 w/ the better battery etc... Feb 09 16:26:12 Arkenoi: wait, the extended batter is that ugly stuff aside n900? Feb 09 16:26:13 * tybollt used all the SE P* phones Feb 09 16:26:16 Arkenoi: because they think everyone wants one Feb 09 16:26:23 w/ those it was _exactly_ like that Feb 09 16:26:47 complete failure Feb 09 16:26:52 Arkenoi: custom sizes mean tiny production runs which further brings up the cost :/ Feb 09 16:26:58 i really need 3 batteries to get through a day without charger Feb 09 16:26:59 cehteh, not *that* one ;-) Feb 09 16:27:31 oh look, pandora has a 4200 mAh battery... Feb 09 16:27:32 ShadowJK, i've got the impression n900 is far more popular than e90 Feb 09 16:27:33 * tybollt hands pupnik a rucksack to carry that extended battery+phone in Feb 09 16:27:51 pupnik: url?? Feb 09 16:28:01 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pandora_%28console%29 Feb 09 16:28:14 oh wait Feb 09 16:28:25 pandora isat the gaming device? Feb 09 16:28:28 Arkenoi: yeah but there's a few magnitude difference between how many devices are sold and how many people even buy a replacement battery, let alone a bigger one :) Feb 09 16:28:46 * cehteh thinks about a pack of eneloops, a linear regulator (yes it sux, i dont care) providing power to the usb port Feb 09 16:28:56 I have a battery that will last 3 weeks of constant use. Feb 09 16:29:03 Portable. Feb 09 16:29:10 or even better anyone figured out what electronic are in the charge adapter which is in the box? Feb 09 16:29:13 in your car? Feb 09 16:29:18 Of course - it is a car battery with a 5V USB reg pinned to it Feb 09 16:29:25 :) Feb 09 16:29:28 used for GPS testing Feb 09 16:30:13 cehteh: I'd imagine a tekkeon 1550 would also work with a data-shorted cable Feb 09 16:30:42 * Arkenoi finished angry birds with 3-stars results Feb 09 16:31:09 mhm a 4pack nimh gives 4.8V .. bit more when fresh charged .. i wonder if that can be used without any regulator Feb 09 16:31:46 8 pack with the guts of DC-6 or DC-10? :-) Feb 09 16:32:15 it's nice to be kicked out of work at 6pm Feb 09 16:32:49 DC/DC adapters are so expensive .. and have a lot of ripple Feb 09 16:34:00 by the amount of sound the charge adapter makes, I'd imagine its output isnt that clean :) Feb 09 16:34:17 huh ... mine is silent Feb 09 16:34:21 the charge adapter is probably a step-down buck converter Feb 09 16:34:23 (or the music is too loud :P) Feb 09 16:34:34 tried that 4-pack without regulator cehteh - didn't work Feb 09 16:34:52 pupnik: cable with datapins shorted? Feb 09 16:34:53 pupnik: with shortened data pins? Feb 09 16:34:57 oh no Feb 09 16:35:03 :] Feb 09 16:35:11 through the adapter from nokia Feb 09 16:35:16 maybe that shorts them Feb 09 16:35:29 prolly yes but it might also do some magic Feb 09 16:35:42 aka having under and over voltage and current protection Feb 09 16:35:49 ah, the adapter, if it's compliant with the 2mm charging spec, needs 5.6V or so Feb 09 16:35:59 anyone here wanted to look inside it .. cant remember who Feb 09 16:36:17 try with a 5pack :) Feb 09 16:36:49 if it starts smelling you know it's going to melt :) Feb 09 16:37:11 yeah and tell us what melted .. the adapter or the n900 :) Feb 09 16:38:04 http://www.bumm.de/docu/361e.htm << damn expensive Feb 09 16:41:23 lol Feb 09 16:43:01 * ShadowJK ponders n900 extended battery... Feb 09 16:43:38 I wonder if the post would pass it via customs... the threshold is at 48E :/ Feb 09 16:43:58 i heard of some company making extended larger battery with replacement cover Feb 09 16:43:59 can the n900 function as a usb host? Feb 09 16:44:21 no Feb 09 16:44:23 no Feb 09 16:44:26 ShadowJK: there is an extended battery? seriously? Feb 09 16:44:31 bleh, huge pity Feb 09 16:44:44 it would be an awesome serial control terminal Feb 09 16:44:56 pupnik: mugen batteries see above Feb 09 16:45:07 Yes, mugen has one, the draft picture looks like it doubles thickness Feb 09 16:45:12 RichiH: I believe you can do that via bluetooth Feb 09 16:45:20 s/has one/will have one/ Feb 09 16:45:20 ShadowJK meant: Yes, mugen will have one, the draft picture looks like it doubles thickness Feb 09 16:45:50 ahh i see Feb 09 16:46:09 dazo: not an option for me, really Feb 09 16:47:04 ShadowJK: do you have a link to that? Feb 09 16:47:19 dazo: the adapter would need its own battery Feb 09 16:47:22 which would suck Feb 09 16:47:40 http://www.mugen-power-batteries.com/nokia/nokia-n900/mugen-power-nokia-n900-2400mah-extended-replacement-battery-with-battery-door.html Feb 09 16:49:37 ta Feb 09 16:49:42 ShadowJK: YIKES! Feb 09 16:50:35 which package contains make? or better: how can apt tell me which package contains a file? Feb 09 16:50:41 This battery might be able to last 7 hours streaming mp3 over edge... I'm kinda tempted Feb 09 16:50:50 apt-cache search make Feb 09 16:53:52 ShadowJK: thanks Feb 09 16:55:14 pupnik: http://www.nokiausers.net/General/N97-Charging-Warning-Beware-of-Using-Supplied-CA-146C-with-Old-Style-Nokia-Charger.html Feb 09 16:55:21 yay :) Feb 09 16:56:05 interesting Feb 09 16:57:00 whoa Feb 09 16:57:01 hehe Feb 09 16:57:04 same one as in n900 package, isn't it? Feb 09 16:57:10 yeah Feb 09 16:57:20 i only use that one in the car anyway :P Feb 09 16:57:39 well i note that the adapter melts, and not the phone .. imo a good thing Feb 09 16:58:30 * cehteh will prolly use that to charge from bike dynamo, should treat the power in a safe way Feb 09 16:58:50 I use mine in the car too. A proper car charger arriving soon though Feb 09 16:58:52 ooh : http://www.nzherald.co.nz/technology/news/article.cfm?c_id=5&objectid=10625082&pnum=0 Feb 09 16:59:03 that adapter reduces the charge rate alot Feb 09 17:00:17 lbt_: well, that's why it should be tamper-free :P Feb 09 17:00:50 tamper-proof? Feb 09 17:00:54 er, yeah Feb 09 17:00:56 * Stskeeps is tired Feb 09 17:01:41 hmm, insert some nice alpha-particle emitting stuff inside the chip Feb 09 17:01:55 what could possibly go wrong? Feb 09 17:24:40 Catorise enhancement requests are hilariously inane. Feb 09 17:25:10 GeneralAntilles: most of them are rather hildon-desktop ones? Feb 09 17:25:15 Yes Feb 09 17:25:19 Or just silly. Feb 09 17:28:28 * MohammadAG wonders if Maemo 6 is going to be allowed (officially) on the N900 Feb 09 17:28:41 Er, allowed? Feb 09 17:28:54 anyone read the 71 page thread? Feb 09 17:29:23 ported* w/e word you want to use :) Feb 09 17:29:44 GeneralAntilles, any official reply from Nokia? Feb 09 17:29:47 No idea. Feb 09 17:30:16 The only thing close to "official" was the N-Series VP saying that they "couldn't" do it due to the N900 not having multitouch. Feb 09 17:30:39 lame excuse imo Feb 09 17:30:46 oh well, there's always mer Feb 09 17:31:09 There've been rumors that it will actually be backported. Feb 09 17:31:22 My gut feeling is that they haven't finalized a decision yet. Feb 09 17:32:02 well allowing it will certainly limit devs Feb 09 17:32:14 MohammadAG, In theory, there's no reason why the n900 wouldn't be able to run maemo 6 Feb 09 17:32:15 or force them to create multi-type inputs Feb 09 17:32:21 * GeneralAntilles finds the whole capacitive thing impossible to stomach. Feb 09 17:32:30 Sadly Maemo 6 may end my association with this platform. Feb 09 17:32:34 i hate capacitive Feb 09 17:32:40 GeneralAntilles, why? Feb 09 17:32:47 tripzero, minus Nokia requiring two fingers on screen for all operations. Feb 09 17:33:02 i doubt it will require two fingers on the screen Feb 09 17:33:25 tripzero, because capacitive sucks, it's basically a marketing ploy, and I hate that they're deciding to jettison most of their existing customer base by moving to it. Feb 09 17:33:28 well then it should work on the N900 Feb 09 17:33:29 multi-touch comes from multi-input in X doesn't it? Feb 09 17:33:39 tripzero, it comes from hardware. :) Feb 09 17:33:49 well, the TS tech has to support it Feb 09 17:33:56 but on a software level, it's all xinput Feb 09 17:33:57 * Stskeeps stands by his 'SDK' argument that a UI developer has to be braindead to make a multitouch-only UI on a single-touch (mouse) SDK Feb 09 17:34:10 tripzero, I'm not sure I see your point. Feb 09 17:34:15 Stskeeps, this is Nokia. :) Feb 09 17:34:19 Stskeeps: connect 2 mouses, configure and you have multitouch Feb 09 17:34:29 hrw: right, but still Feb 09 17:34:32 UI decisions are made 50% by marketing. Feb 09 17:34:39 lol hrw Feb 09 17:34:56 recent xorg supports multiple pointers Feb 09 17:34:58 the point is, multitouch is backwards compatible with single touch Feb 09 17:34:59 i doubt the human brain would coordinate it well hrw Feb 09 17:35:12 hmmh, not sure multitouch is really useful except in few corner cases (but then you might really find it useful, I guess). But what I guess i'd like with capacitive is that it only require contact and not pressure Feb 09 17:35:13 GeneralAntilles: 40% by management and no place left for designer Feb 09 17:35:17 But... but... Feb 09 17:35:20 Multitouch is TEH FUTURE! Feb 09 17:35:20 though I never really used a capacitive display Feb 09 17:35:30 tripzero, erm? Not if the software only provides multitouch interfaces to certain functions. Feb 09 17:35:32 It's almost like Minority Report! Feb 09 17:35:39 i like pressure on a screen Feb 09 17:35:42 Corsac, capacitive sucks. Feb 09 17:35:49 every time I see someone use the multitouch stretch gesture to zoom out an image, it just reminds me of goatse Feb 09 17:36:01 gliding your finger on the screen is impossible on capacitive Feb 09 17:36:02 Multitouch is mostly a gimmick Feb 09 17:36:05 GeneralAntilles: do you have something backing up your claim? :) Feb 09 17:36:27 actually GeneralAntilles there is at least one very very useful thing for multitouch Feb 09 17:36:33 It's generally quite awkward to use two fingers on a mobile device with any sort of usefulness. Feb 09 17:36:40 keyboards Feb 09 17:36:45 Corsac, rather extensive experience with both types of displays. Feb 09 17:36:50 (I can't really compare capacitive to resistive since I barely used capacitive, but I think I like the fact it doesn't require keyboard Feb 09 17:36:52 virtual keyboards? Feb 09 17:36:54 lcuk, meh, I did just fine with the keyboard on the N800. Feb 09 17:36:55 hey seen on /. today .. pressure sensitive touchscreens! Feb 09 17:36:58 rah Feb 09 17:37:01 s/keyboard/pressure/ Feb 09 17:37:01 GeneralAntilles, im not saying you werent Feb 09 17:37:05 oh dear Feb 09 17:37:13 lcuk, I find the iPhone's keyboard significantly less usable. Feb 09 17:37:15 but lots of people still crossover their letters when typing with 2 hands Feb 09 17:37:25 i agree, im merely pointing it out Feb 09 17:37:31 Corsac, speaking more seriously, capacitive is less precise. Feb 09 17:37:38 i wonder if the next maemo device will have a keyboard Feb 09 17:37:41 Corsac, which is a big problem at ~260ppi Feb 09 17:37:49 i wish i only needed one hand to use my keyboard Feb 09 17:37:50 its very nearly manageable - even using the multitouch fakey thing i did Feb 09 17:37:56 but its something to consider Feb 09 17:38:06 GeneralAntilles: because of the finger nail vs. finger tip? Feb 09 17:38:07 gah, almost brought the wrong n900 with me when going to the store Feb 09 17:38:19 Corsac, no, capacitive is just less precise. Feb 09 17:38:24 GeneralAntilles: or because of the tech? Feb 09 17:38:25 need to put some visual aid on which is the one im suppose to bring and which one isnt :< Feb 09 17:38:32 Corsac, the technology is incapable of reaching the sort of precision that resistive does. Feb 09 17:38:45 resistive is no better in terms of precision Feb 09 17:38:57 Input device does have an effect, but it's more a factor of the type of tech. Feb 09 17:39:01 tripzero, yes it is. Feb 09 17:39:04 unless you use a stylus Feb 09 17:39:10 tripzero, the term you're looking for is "accuracy". Feb 09 17:39:37 i was using a HP multitouch monitor the other day Feb 09 17:39:41 Resistive is significantly more precise Feb 09 17:39:43 it supported MT and stylus Feb 09 17:39:51 MT? Feb 09 17:39:52 See the capacitive "styluses" that they're manufacturing now. Feb 09 17:39:53 didnt seem too imprecise to me Feb 09 17:40:00 errr other day == december Feb 09 17:40:09 lcuk, try using an iPhone. Feb 09 17:40:10 GeneralAntilles, i was using my n900 stylus Feb 09 17:40:13 GeneralAntilles, nope, I mean precision: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precision Feb 09 17:40:21 tripzero, then you're incorrect. Feb 09 17:40:59 tripzero, the input device is not a factor in the relative precision of the technology. :) Feb 09 17:41:04 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Accuracy_and_precision.svg Feb 09 17:41:07 go press your finger on a resistive touchscreen adn then go press your finger on a capacitive touchscreen and tell me which is more precise Feb 09 17:41:17 tripzero, you're doing it wrong. Feb 09 17:41:24 screw touchscreens; just give me a nub mouse Feb 09 17:41:26 i'm not going to use my finger nail Feb 09 17:41:29 * GeneralAntilles can see he's not going to get anywhere with this discussion. Feb 09 17:41:30 it's retarded Feb 09 17:41:53 tripzero, that's a personal problem. Feb 09 17:41:56 tripzero: use a stylus Feb 09 17:42:07 GeneralAntilles, so is not liking multitouch Feb 09 17:42:07 tripzero, and, again, the input device doesn't have anything to do with precision. Feb 09 17:42:20 tripzero, capacitive is simply not capable of being as precise as resistive. Feb 09 17:42:25 http://liqbase.net/liq.concepting.cambridge.jlp.20091215_014.jpg drooly Feb 09 17:42:33 * Arkenoi wants a really good keyboard. /me fucking HATES the idea "there is too little space for keyboard so let's do it real crap as nobody cares!" Feb 09 17:42:42 Arkenoi++ Feb 09 17:42:47 um, a touchscreen is an input device Feb 09 17:42:57 Arkenoi, the idea is that they wanted to keep your fingers as close to the display as possible. Feb 09 17:43:09 tripzero, input implement. Finger/stylus/etc. Feb 09 17:43:11 luke-jr, i don't want to use a stylus in my car, which is the primary place i use the touchscreen Feb 09 17:43:16 d Feb 09 17:43:20 sharpen your fingers Feb 09 17:43:22 Arkenoi, a 4-row keyboard moves your fingers away from the touchscreen. Feb 09 17:43:24 haha Feb 09 17:43:38 tripzero: wtf are you doing using 2 fingers on a touchscreen in a car?? Feb 09 17:43:43 GeneralAntilles, that was bad idea anyways Feb 09 17:43:50 Arkenoi, I disagree. Feb 09 17:43:50 luke-jr, i'm not using 2 fingers? Feb 09 17:43:56 Arkenoi, personally I find it quite helpful. Feb 09 17:44:01 tripzero: that is the only benefit of capacitive Feb 09 17:44:17 well, not having to press so hard is a benefit as well Feb 09 17:44:26 tripzero, nah, that's a personal preference. Feb 09 17:44:28 that and flicking gestures are easier Feb 09 17:44:29 * lcuk sits back o nthe capacitive fence, i just want something i can have my stylus with Feb 09 17:44:39 lcuk, then capacitive aint it. Feb 09 17:44:40 jesus, please not a resistive vs capacitive discussion Feb 09 17:44:40 So, the other day when I looked, I swear there was a package listed that said "Maemo 5" which was not installed. I did not install it after it told me that I should back everything up and reboot, but now it's not showing up anymore. Feb 09 17:44:40 if i can have it on capacitive fine, if not i dont rly car Feb 09 17:44:41 press hard? what? Feb 09 17:44:46 I've never had to press Feb 09 17:45:02 GeneralAntilles, i just said, that screen i posted was multitouch and could work with stylus Feb 09 17:45:07 my normal n900 stylus Feb 09 17:45:10 lcuk, you can have a stylus with capacitive, but it'll only ever be as precise as your finger tip. Feb 09 17:45:12 best of both Feb 09 17:45:13 I'm also curious about what the reasoning is for why dist-upgrade is disrecommended Feb 09 17:45:16 luke-jr, you never have to press your touchscreen? does it work on brain waves? Feb 09 17:45:17 lcuk, then it wasn't capacitive. :) Feb 09 17:45:19 ;_ Feb 09 17:45:20 :P Feb 09 17:45:23 tripzero: I just touch it. Feb 09 17:45:23 GeneralAntilles, i cannot use my stylus on an iphone Feb 09 17:45:31 lcuk, it was either capacitive/resistive hybrid or Stantum. :) Feb 09 17:45:31 how else could it be multitouch Feb 09 17:45:46 general: operating touch screen with thumbs while holding the device with both hands is *not* good anyways, so the compromise is pointless Feb 09 17:46:07 Arkenoi, er? Feb 09 17:46:10 Arkenoi, I have no issue here. Feb 09 17:46:18 the pointer pad, or whatever it is called, is the thing that i miss the most on the n900. it was a bad decision to remove it from previous n800 Feb 09 17:46:25 luke-jr, you have to press it harder than you would press a capacitive touchscreen. That's why it's called "resistive", it works by applying pressure to the layers in the ts Feb 09 17:46:29 Arkenoi, in fact, that's how I ALWAYS use the device. Feb 09 17:46:40 uhsf, dpad Feb 09 17:46:44 uhsf, there's one on the keyboard. Feb 09 17:46:52 tripzero: the pressure needed is so insignificant, I don't notice I'm pressing Feb 09 17:47:00 HP touchsmart 300-1025UK - can someone dig and find what kind of screen it has Feb 09 17:47:56 luke-jr, then it's probably a decent touchscreen :) Feb 09 17:47:59 GeneralAntilles: can you please enlighten me about where exactly a dpad is located on the keyboard of my nokia n900? Feb 09 17:48:09 uhsf, the arrow keys in the bottom right. Feb 09 17:48:20 i ususally hold it with one hand and use index finger of another Feb 09 17:48:29 ok but these do not move a cursor Feb 09 17:48:35 I haven't yet gotten mah n900, and I'm dreading trying to fit in all arrowkeys, as well as scandinavias signs Feb 09 17:48:39 uhsf, er, nor did the N800's. Feb 09 17:48:40 it's one key short Feb 09 17:49:04 uhsf what cursor? Feb 09 17:49:23 the arrow keys don't move the cursor on a PC Feb 09 17:49:32 what? Feb 09 17:49:51 can you move the in-browser cursor with arrow keys? Feb 09 17:49:55 in my Editor that's what I use.. also on the N900.. Feb 09 17:50:00 ahhh in-browser one.. Feb 09 17:50:07 but to enter text ? Feb 09 17:50:16 MohammadAG: the cursor i make visible by changing /usr/share/icons/default/transp Feb 09 17:50:21 I'm confused.. shouldn't jump in the discussion likethat :) Feb 09 17:50:48 are you guys talking about the Mouse Pointer? Feb 09 17:50:50 uhsf: if you made the cursor visible, you should also be capable of making it respond to arrowkey presses Feb 09 17:50:53 uhsf again, arrows don't move the cursor on a pc Feb 09 17:51:00 MohammadAG: and we were talking about a dpad, i know arrows don't move cursor on a pc Feb 09 17:51:06 thanks for the location of the file though Feb 09 17:51:48 uhsf, the dpad is just arrow keys. . . . Feb 09 17:51:57 isnt there some assistive technology thing to allow keyboard based cursor Feb 09 17:52:05 i'm too used to my sony vaio ux which is the most perfect device ever still today even if it dates back to 2006 Feb 09 17:52:26 on windows at least, im sure there is Feb 09 17:52:38 i wish there was a device that fusions the n900 and the sony vaio ux Feb 09 17:53:10 yes, "mousekeys" "use mousekeys if you want to control the mouse from the numeric keypad" Feb 09 17:53:37 the ux features the best dpad, pointing device in the world, i can't believe no one else than sony ever put such dpad on their device Feb 09 17:54:04 uhsf, the best pointing device in the world is your finger Feb 09 17:54:23 the nipple! Feb 09 17:54:24 you mean touchscreen and i disagree Feb 09 17:54:34 nipple dpad FTW Feb 09 17:54:44 everything else required hand to eye coordination Feb 09 17:54:45 uhsf: is that the grey thing on top right? Feb 09 17:54:52 just look at someone who has never used a mouse before Feb 09 17:54:52 uhsf: lcuk is clearly an alien with a transparent finger Feb 09 17:54:53 ToiletOil: yes Feb 09 17:55:02 SpeedEvil ;) closer than you tihnk Feb 09 17:55:03 ToiletOil: and it's black on the model i have Feb 09 17:55:06 how does it work? Feb 09 17:55:08 lcuk: learning curve != best Feb 09 17:55:10 err Feb 09 17:55:16 lcuk: lack of learning curve != best Feb 09 17:55:38 ack of learning curve != worst Feb 09 17:55:55 luke-jr, for the nokia device i disagree based on size, but for lazy devs having mouse and keys on surface to prevent gorrila arm is true Feb 09 17:56:08 I think that initially, a touch interface with large shiny buttons are the easiest to understand Feb 09 17:56:29 a touchscreen device where you have to move your whole arm to use would be harder for regular desktop ops Feb 09 17:56:42 ToiletOil: i you can imagin a gaming controller dpad behavior, but this size. it's very intuitive Feb 09 17:56:47 but for wall mounted things (like calendars and pinboards) its great Feb 09 17:56:50 uhsf: when i swapped the transp cursor, it didn't show up immediately. do you know the cause for that? Feb 09 17:57:01 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pointing_stick <-- best pointing device Feb 09 17:57:15 luke-jr: high five Feb 09 17:58:34 pupnik: it doesn't work very well indeed. i'm still looking for a real configuration option to make cursor visible. sometimes it still disappears and a reboot is needed or browsing to a page with flash. i don't know more about this. Feb 09 17:59:21 i also had to browse to a page with flash! Feb 09 17:59:26 http://xkcd.com/243/ Feb 09 17:59:28 uhsf, you want to use and move the mouse pointer? on the n900 ? why don't you swipe your finger from the left side of the screen ? Feb 09 17:59:52 uhsf, mouse pointer on a touchscreen is mostly pointless. Feb 09 17:59:55 it helps to have a pointer when using synergy from desktop Feb 09 18:00:08 the pointer also helps to see how i missed a tiny link Feb 09 18:00:24 zoom in before tapping on the link Feb 09 18:00:50 GeneralAntilles: i'm using a synergy setup where the n900 is like an extension of my workstation monitor. a cursor is a must. Feb 09 18:00:54 that does not contradict my observation anidel Feb 09 18:01:20 uhsf: do you think regular synergy client is ok for repo, or should it be quicksynergy? Feb 09 18:01:39 pupnik, it does not, but a cursor, I think, will surely confuse more.. may be not you though .. I am more thinking about a general user Feb 09 18:01:59 i don't advocate shipping devices with a visible X pointer :) Feb 09 18:02:01 lardman: OE is now able to build maemo5 packages - at least console ones as so far I tried nano Feb 09 18:02:10 i had synergy set up already with my notebook, so to me quicksynergy would not be that useful Feb 09 18:02:33 i just copied synergy binary from easy debian and it works great Feb 09 18:03:10 yeah, would work better if the client enabled the pointer itself Feb 09 18:03:26 bye all Feb 09 18:03:41 anidel: what do you mean swipe finger from left side of screen to move pointer? Feb 09 18:05:09 it's related to the microB browser .. Feb 09 18:05:14 I thought you wanted it there Feb 09 18:05:26 i want it everywhere Feb 09 18:05:45 in older Maemo mouse support was removed from X Feb 09 18:05:56 you had to recompile it Feb 09 18:06:22 not sure now Feb 09 18:06:26 anyway.. I've got to go Feb 09 18:06:29 see you later Feb 09 18:06:38 i would be very disappointed if they remove mouse support from my n900 Feb 09 18:08:31 Does HAM respect pinning? Feb 09 18:08:50 Unfortunately the newer qt4.6 packages have ABI breakages frequently Feb 09 18:10:45 wireshark's in extras-devel (13mb) Feb 09 18:10:55 i wonder if it's optified Feb 09 18:11:37 MohammadAG: Download the deb and see Feb 09 18:12:36 that's what i'm doing :) Feb 09 18:13:04 wooo Feb 09 18:13:06 I got my N900 Feb 09 18:13:12 and I managed to crash the media palyer within 3 minutes Feb 09 18:13:13 :D Feb 09 18:14:05 uhsf: also enabling pointer would be needed for presentations using wiimote, zeemote, or some other pointing method Feb 09 18:14:34 Arif_: Congrats! Feb 09 18:14:45 oh wow Feb 09 18:14:47 it always crashes Feb 09 18:14:53 lol Feb 09 18:14:58 when I type to search in the media player Feb 09 18:14:59 ah. new build numbers started appearing in bugzilla. i wonder which one is going to be pr1.2 Feb 09 18:19:29 I wonder if I should file a bug Feb 09 18:21:21 * RST38h moos at Arkenoi Feb 09 18:21:30 Arkenoi: You wanted a raster map viewer, right? Feb 09 18:22:03 Ah, mullf is such a prick. Feb 09 18:22:32 OMG Ovi Maps lock timeout has been fixed. Apparently. Feb 09 18:22:39 General: Ain't we all... Feb 09 18:22:54 RST38h, he's particularly dedicated in his pursuit of it, though. Feb 09 18:23:33 * ShadowJK wonders if ovi maps is raster or vector.. Feb 09 18:23:39 vector Feb 09 18:23:48 raster maps require stupid amounts of storage Feb 09 18:24:10 on S60 you can see various things drawn, like first you get lake outlines and then after that comes roads iirc Feb 09 18:24:24 but on maemo it's like rectangles with everything in them appearing Feb 09 18:24:36 zoom in Feb 09 18:24:43 now compute the size of the bitmap Feb 09 18:24:47 that's insane Feb 09 18:24:49 it's vector Feb 09 18:24:57 the rendering may be tile based though Feb 09 18:25:14 well a few hundred bytes in png :D Feb 09 18:25:29 yes. Feb 09 18:25:40 Now multiply that by 100000*100000 Feb 09 18:25:43 Maybe the interface is tile based since it does satellite too (or the S60 one does now) :/ Feb 09 18:28:41 It vastly simplifies the db search problem if you hold the vectors in tiles Feb 09 18:29:12 You want a bounding box of lat/lon - you simply look at what tiles of the db they are in - and look in those tiles only. Feb 09 18:29:22 and draw that. Feb 09 18:29:37 General: A man dedicated to his Mission! Feb 09 18:29:40 you don't have to look over a whole database, just a tiny fraction. Feb 09 18:29:54 * SpeedEvil has somewhere a map as 70G of xml... Feb 09 18:30:29 Anyone that owns a Nokia N900 and know if there is an Gyrometer in it ? Feb 09 18:30:36 there is no gyro Feb 09 18:30:42 there is an accellerometer Feb 09 18:30:59 lol Feb 09 18:31:07 Hmm so a application like http://www.google.com/sky/skymap.html isint possible on N900 ? Feb 09 18:31:15 no. Feb 09 18:31:19 hi Feb 09 18:31:31 And that's a compass, not a gyro AIUI Feb 09 18:32:00 you can add a compass, but it will void your warranty, and require you to write drivers. Feb 09 18:32:34 Can anyone tell me where Maemo 5 stores the PSK of a WPA connection? Feb 09 18:33:07 The gui seems to expect a passphrase but i have only the hex PSK Feb 09 18:33:16 Mandavar, in GConf Feb 09 18:33:28 I don't remember the path, but it should be on the Web somewhere Feb 09 18:33:54 zChris, if you do need compasses or gyros, you can buy IMU modules from places such as SparkFun.com, and wire them to a Bluetooth dongle Feb 09 18:33:55 SpeedEvil: there is a guid for that? :S Feb 09 18:34:05 guide* Feb 09 18:34:19 zChris, and that method wouldn't involve any warranty voiding, but may not be what your looking for Feb 09 18:34:39 SpeedEvil: you also can add a plutonium cell, It also voids warranty, needs adding lead shielding, and you need clearance from IAEO :-P Feb 09 18:34:59 I have a hard time deciding on what OS/Phone i want. So im checking possibilities :P Feb 09 18:35:03 DocScrutinizer, can it make my N900 travel back in time? Feb 09 18:35:23 depends on your software skills Feb 09 18:35:48 jaem|away, sure, date -s [some time in the past] Feb 09 18:35:57 http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Hacking - see the compass part. Feb 09 18:36:15 zChris: I'd be willing to write a walkthrough if I had a spare n900 Feb 09 18:37:01 well hardware hacking is too expensive for me :P Feb 09 18:38:28 SpeedEvil: well that sounds about as easy as the plutonium cell project ;-P Feb 09 18:38:33 tripzero, you can fool your RTC, but you can't fool me Feb 09 18:38:37 I'm just too quick ;) Feb 09 18:38:51 :P Feb 09 18:41:44 how much are IMU modules? Feb 09 18:41:51 ShadowJK: It depends. Feb 09 18:42:00 From $40 to $400000 Feb 09 18:42:11 well I'm not NASA Feb 09 18:42:14 IMU modules that will fit in a phone and are under $100 aren't great Feb 09 18:42:42 As in errors of a kilometer in a minute or two Feb 09 18:43:04 IMU's that are $400,000 aren't that great, either. Feb 09 18:43:08 no. Feb 09 18:43:17 they are better than the ones at $100 though Feb 09 18:43:22 This is true. Feb 09 18:43:31 Also a lot larger Feb 09 18:43:40 Well, they're meant to be put on planes. Feb 09 18:47:32 are Qt 4.6 beta packages in extras-devel broken? cannot install libqt4-maemo5-dev Feb 09 18:51:07 wow, wireshark Feb 09 18:51:19 not hildonized and huge fonts, though :-( Feb 09 18:52:56 huge fonts suck :( Feb 09 18:59:33 Any hints on how to debug a desktop file that does not work? Feb 09 18:59:39 ciao Feb 09 18:59:48 !list Feb 09 18:59:56 The same command from command line is fine, but via the menu I only get a blank window, briefly Feb 09 18:59:57 Hukka: compare to others Feb 09 19:00:22 pupnik: Did, I've created another desktop file for running my irssi via ssh, that works Feb 09 19:00:28 This one is for a python app Feb 09 19:00:29 Hukka: what program are you launching? Feb 09 19:00:33 pupnik: My own Feb 09 19:01:37 Hukka: i am so sorry, i forgot. See the porting applications to maemo wiki and how to talk to the windowmanager Feb 09 19:03:02 Hukka: is the python file self executable? Feb 09 19:03:28 does it run on ints own window or in x-terminal? Feb 09 19:04:17 ifreq: Self executable? It needs the python binary... Feb 09 19:04:24 And yes, it should open a window via Qt Feb 09 19:04:57 Hukka: reading any external files from the working directory? Feb 09 19:05:27 No Feb 09 19:05:39 It gets the data via network Feb 09 19:06:03 And it runs fine with the same command no matter where I start it in command line Feb 09 19:06:31 * Arkenoi tries to play games with scrummvm (beneath a steel sky), no luck - cannot show inventory listing, cannot skip movies and dialogs :-( Feb 09 19:06:55 Arkenoi: I tried Discworld games. Same kind of results Feb 09 19:06:59 Hukka: try printing some stuff into a log file to pinpoint the location where it dies Feb 09 19:07:34 fragment: I tried to redirect stderr into a file. The file is not even created when starting via menu Feb 09 19:08:11 So I have a reason to believe the command isn't actually run... Feb 09 19:08:24 I could try to add some hardcoded prints though, if that's what you mea Feb 09 19:08:26 Hukka: try running something else then Feb 09 19:08:32 fragment: Uh, huh? Feb 09 19:08:58 Hukka: ..to see if it is completely broken? maybe a bit far fetched :P Feb 09 19:09:25 No, it's not broken... Feb 09 19:09:47 I've opened the browser and played a game since I had this problem Feb 09 19:09:56 But now I've run out of all ideas of my own Feb 09 19:09:58 Hukka: I mean with your desktop file Feb 09 19:10:22 fragment: Ah. It's copied from a working file Feb 09 19:10:43 I mentioned earlier I had this desktop file to open my irc via ssh to an xterm with a single click Feb 09 19:10:54 I just changed the app name and the command Feb 09 19:11:08 + I can add the icon to my desktop Feb 09 19:11:21 It seems like Fremantle doesn't let you add broken desktop files Feb 09 19:11:31 At least it removed the icon when I broke the file for a short while :) Feb 09 19:22:21 which package do I have to install to get gst-launch? Feb 09 19:22:37 There's a gstreamer tools package Feb 09 19:22:41 apt-cache search for it Feb 09 19:24:43 tools it was. thanks :) Feb 09 19:35:07 Woo! Feb 09 19:35:14 angrybirds all 3*'d Feb 09 19:35:24 wow Feb 09 19:35:47 well - first levels anyway Feb 09 19:39:15 heya Feb 09 19:39:32 until nokia fixes the ovi store... Feb 09 19:40:14 * Arkenoi got all 3 levels all 3* Feb 09 19:41:14 Arkenoi, jealousy! on the other hand: no real life? ;-)) Feb 09 19:43:40 andre: just no fulltime job ;-) Feb 09 19:44:14 well, actually it did not take *that* much ;-) Feb 09 19:45:10 haha Feb 09 19:45:36 so I've written something using gstreamer (just to retrieve a mjpeg stream from a web cam and show it. It works in scratchbox, but on the n900, the gstreamer bit is missing. there's no picture. network connection is working, and gdb doesn't say anything interesting. Feb 09 19:51:09 is anyone familiar with debian packaging? I'm having trouble understanding dh_strip Feb 09 19:57:51 SpeedEvil: was that you who appreciated the ramp of kbd backlight? Feb 09 20:00:09 whoever it's been... There is no real ramp. Switching kbd bl on and off takes <0.1s each. So I *really* wonder why we need engine3 for that :-(( Feb 09 20:00:12 heh, google street view doesnt wrok fullscreen Feb 09 20:00:26 DocScrutinizer: it doesn't. It fades out much slower than .1s Feb 09 20:00:32 IMO Feb 09 20:00:38 ot here Feb 09 20:00:42 Not Feb 09 20:00:48 odd Feb 09 20:00:56 the *screen* fades Feb 09 20:01:07 kb bl switches rather steep Feb 09 20:05:49 :) Feb 09 20:07:09 does anyone know if petrovic can be integrated into the media player? Feb 09 20:07:20 So I can send a song directly from it Feb 09 20:07:50 it's a bit hard scrolling through 2000+ entries to find and send a file :( Feb 09 20:07:54 Arif_, that might be very tricky Feb 09 20:08:07 much more likely to happen in a different player Feb 09 20:08:14 hmm Feb 09 20:08:15 ok Feb 09 20:08:26 then how about something else... Feb 09 20:08:39 the media player crashes and quits each time I try to search in "All songs" Feb 09 20:08:49 is there some log I can poke in to see why Feb 09 20:20:06 N900 has Qt 4.5.x at the moment, right? Feb 09 20:20:21 unless you get 4.6 from extras-devel Feb 09 20:20:29 right Feb 09 20:21:56 though I know there's been talk (rumor?) about pr1.2 including 4.6 Feb 09 20:22:46 Yes, so I heard Feb 09 20:23:04 asj_: when? Feb 09 20:23:24 when what? Feb 09 20:27:12 looks like gonvert and gpodder conflict (different versions of python-glade2) Feb 09 20:27:40 did they change recently? both of mine are happy together at the moment Feb 09 20:27:53 and gpodder updated within the last 2 days Feb 09 20:28:23 i had gonvert installed for a long time and never was able to install gpodder Feb 09 20:28:32 will try to reinstall now Feb 09 20:29:06 gonvert needs some work on the UI it's so hard to use Feb 09 20:30:12 agreed Feb 09 20:30:25 needs a complete ui overhaul Feb 09 20:35:13 * lcuk wonders if aSIMULAtor managed to pass on her lurgy to everyone in finland? Feb 09 20:37:54 hmpf, twitter search borked ;< Feb 09 20:48:57 lcuk: Somehow she's passed it on to me. Feb 09 20:49:24 cooties Feb 09 20:50:27 jaffa, mmm perhaps, do your symptoms resemble adeles? ie sniffing on people, pining for the beach, going through multiple packs of tissues Feb 09 20:51:13 * w00t blinks Feb 09 20:52:19 holy flock! for anyone who ever played with fractint : http://www.boingboing.net/2010/02/09/deep-zoom-into-mande.html Feb 09 20:52:57 i think the guy in the article is lying and actually started rendering it in the 1980s Feb 09 20:52:58 cool link Feb 09 20:53:52 i think it reaches the 32bit precision level after about 10 seconds of zooming Feb 09 20:59:09 for some obscure reason gpodder starts media player even if explicitly told to start panucci :-( Feb 09 21:00:24 there's some mega zooms on youtube, running for 10 mins Feb 09 21:01:33 I think that the Mandelbrot set is among the most beautiful and elegant things this universe has to offer Feb 09 21:02:38 yeah i built a mandlebrot zoomer for maemo Feb 09 21:02:44 but it had math errors :) Feb 09 21:03:37 * lcuk should revive mandelbrot diver i did on n810 and see if it works Feb 09 21:03:40 on n900 Feb 09 21:03:47 jophish: it's not dependent on this universe though, that's even crazier Feb 09 21:04:05 Absolutely Feb 09 21:04:16 it doesn't matter what G is, or even how many dimensions you live in Feb 09 21:04:27 I think that any complexity out of simplicity is stunning Feb 09 21:04:43 "Life" is a prime example of this Feb 09 21:04:57 x^2-1 Feb 09 21:11:37 http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/expipiplus1/Fractals?authkey=Gv1sRgCKfF_tnRy97KuQE&feat=directlink Feb 09 21:11:40 some of mine Feb 09 21:12:23 nice Feb 09 21:12:27 :) Feb 09 21:12:39 it is a deep revelation of some sort to see mathematical fractals Feb 09 21:12:40 thanks Feb 09 21:12:49 i wish our brains could really grok it though Feb 09 21:13:09 those are very nice Feb 09 21:13:35 pupnik, ian has suggested a good idea would be to phone the hotels we were at Feb 09 21:13:44 thanks again :) Feb 09 21:13:56 he didnt see it in our room and i didnt either Feb 09 21:14:05 but you never know Feb 09 21:14:17 * pupnik will call Feb 09 21:14:27 hi anyone play ogg files on their N900? Feb 09 21:14:30 ill get you the details hold on Feb 09 21:14:30 http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/expipiplus1/Fractals?authkey=Gv1sRgCKfF_tnRy97KuQE&feat=directlink#5426349805695598546 love that rug Feb 09 21:14:56 btw there is a nice cellular automata program written by some dude at autodesk back in 1992 or so Feb 09 21:15:00 Persian rug. Aboriginal art? Feb 09 21:15:24 very clever use of precomputing to achieve high speed Feb 09 21:16:19 hello hello maemonians Feb 09 21:16:47 The game of life is another example of emergent properties and complexity. Feb 09 21:17:04 now, a maemo version of _that_ would be worth making! Feb 09 21:17:06 * lcuk sees chaos in liqflow and smiles Feb 09 21:17:16 * jophish has found a new project Feb 09 21:17:45 jophish, we were discussin this the other night cos someone made a connect4 game Feb 09 21:17:55 and we were gona hack it to play GOL Feb 09 21:18:15 connect four to gol! brilliant Feb 09 21:18:41 wait, what's connect4? Feb 09 21:18:52 google might know Feb 09 21:19:01 and what's GOL? Apparently I've been living under a rock. Feb 09 21:19:02 * w00t eyes lcuk Feb 09 21:19:05 I don't like google. Feb 09 21:19:16 http://images.google.co.uk/images?q=connect%20four Feb 09 21:19:29 * mece bows Feb 09 21:19:31 jophish: this is a more interesting 1d rule than i have seen before http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/expipiplus1/Fractals?authkey=Gv1sRgCKfF_tnRy97KuQE&feat=directlink#5365283853947347618 Feb 09 21:19:33 righty-o Feb 09 21:20:06 what is GOL? Feb 09 21:20:13 pupnik: GameOfLife Feb 09 21:20:14 Conway's Game of Life Feb 09 21:20:17 ohh Feb 09 21:20:18 right right. Feb 09 21:20:40 Dantonic: i do sometimes Feb 09 21:20:46 you and your fancy abbrevations Feb 09 21:20:48 pupnik, not really 1d, more like 3 in that one. x,y and colour Feb 09 21:20:52 I did Gol once! :) Feb 09 21:21:09 quick stupid question, how do I let the virtual keyboard pop up? Feb 09 21:21:40 * lcuk thinks flow is like a lorenz attractor Feb 09 21:21:47 Arif_: press the screen, and up it comes Feb 09 21:21:48 jophish: those would look great as giant transparencies on a lightbox Feb 09 21:21:55 (on an input, of course) Feb 09 21:22:11 hey pupnik just wondering what codecs you use. Feb 09 21:22:12 i thought flow *was* that lcuk Feb 09 21:22:29 It's funny you should say that. I had two printed out (the circles) onto perspex Feb 09 21:22:31 hmm Feb 09 21:22:38 * Arif_ pokes the screen Feb 09 21:22:45 Dantonic: ah i think i just played with mplayer Feb 09 21:22:50 haha pupnik, i knew it was nonlinear but i thought i was the only one that thought it Feb 09 21:22:53 Arif_, you need to enable it in settings first... Feb 09 21:22:57 they never look as good as they do on a computer though Feb 09 21:23:00 I have! Feb 09 21:23:02 wait pupnik what front end do you use for mplayer? Feb 09 21:23:04 that's why I'm asking here Feb 09 21:23:04 Arif_: tap once to get it into a text edit, then tap that text edit - if that doesn't work, make sure you didn't disable it in settings Feb 09 21:23:05 Arif_, and then poke at an input area. Feb 09 21:23:11 Dantonic: just the shell Feb 09 21:23:22 * Arif_ goes to check to be sure Feb 09 21:23:56 Some devel apps have been known to stop the virtual keyboard from popping up. Feb 09 21:24:03 ..or so I hear. Feb 09 21:24:25 pupnik, I would love a way to make the default media player use mplayer instead of gstreamer do you know if that's possible? Feb 09 21:24:57 Dantonic, original spec for MAFW specified allowing multiple backends Feb 09 21:25:06 Dantonic, if the default media player uses phonon, you could probably install the phonon mplayer backend... Feb 09 21:25:09 i have no idea whether that remained Feb 09 21:25:19 * Arif_ throws the N900 out of the window Feb 09 21:25:27 :shifty: Feb 09 21:25:31 * lcuk stands under Arif_s window Feb 09 21:25:33 lcuk, that's good news... Feb 09 21:25:37 Aranel: To me! Feb 09 21:25:37 oh well, no Turkish input for me then Feb 09 21:25:44 tripzero, idk what phonon is is it available in the repos? Feb 09 21:25:54 its the qt media backend Feb 09 21:26:22 zChris: yeah? Feb 09 21:26:35 apart from the media player crashing all the time. it's a great phone though :D Feb 09 21:26:38 * Arif_ loves it Feb 09 21:26:49 hi there Arif_ =) Feb 09 21:26:56 hi Feb 09 21:26:59 Arif_, mmm which bit crashes? Feb 09 21:27:06 lcuk, so how can I install that? Feb 09 21:27:09 i play movies in it in bursts all day Feb 09 21:27:14 whenever I try to search in the "all songs" it crashes Feb 09 21:27:18 =} Feb 09 21:27:29 Dantonic, its only a part of qt, its not a standalone thing afaik, and it wouldnt help your problem Feb 09 21:27:38 ah ok... Feb 09 21:27:59 but if I start typing in albums or artist it's just fine Feb 09 21:27:59 so there's no config file that tells the media player what backend to use? Feb 09 21:28:13 * mece wonders if one could get a world record in N900 fly if one took it to the ISS... Feb 09 21:28:17 So I was wondering whether I should go for the N900 Maemo phone or not, enjoying ubuntu on my pc for a few years now. Was wondering if the community is fastly developping an nice apps are made? Feb 09 21:28:28 maybe it doesn't like the 2000 Turkish charactered songs I threw at it Feb 09 21:28:29 :D Feb 09 21:28:29 * lcuk likes meces thinking Feb 09 21:28:41 Arif_, possibly Feb 09 21:29:01 Aijse, there are 156 apps from november till now Feb 09 21:29:05 Arif_: you said "no turkish input for me" why not? does not ukeyboard work for you? Feb 09 21:29:07 lcuk, I guess one could test the theory with that Spaceship one thing, before booking a flight to ISS Feb 09 21:29:07 so yes I think the community is great ;P Feb 09 21:29:24 mece, vomit comit would get you the world record first Feb 09 21:29:28 Aranel, I can't get the virtual keyboard to pop up :P Feb 09 21:29:50 lcuk, a rollercoaster of sorts? Feb 09 21:29:52 I enabled it in the settings and set it to TR/EN Feb 09 21:29:53 n900fly works well on a trampoline Feb 09 21:30:02 you could also start a bit smaller and pad phone in a huge great ball of something and drop it off a building Feb 09 21:30:03 Just for the fun of it could you name some of the most awesome apps that will convince any 1? Feb 09 21:30:11 o_O jophish i like your thinking Feb 09 21:30:14 mece, an aeroplane taking a parabolic flight to simulate microgravity Feb 09 21:30:20 vomit comet Feb 09 21:30:23 Arif_: strange. just to make sure: when your use it, does your HW keyboard is on/off? Feb 09 21:30:27 Aijse, comic-widget!!!! Feb 09 21:30:31 or whatever its called Feb 09 21:30:44 mece, lets see :P Feb 09 21:30:50 so, say, how hard it would be to get this http://sourceforge.net/projects/gstm/ running on an N900? Feb 09 21:30:58 Aijse, I'm joking. I made that app... ;) Feb 09 21:31:00 Aijse, theres LOTS of awesome apps coming/here for n900 Feb 09 21:31:01 ...oh you have to CLOSE the keyboard? Feb 09 21:31:07 there we go Feb 09 21:31:08 :D Feb 09 21:31:16 Arif_, Success! Feb 09 21:31:21 lcuk: i want google sky map T_T Feb 09 21:31:25 yes! :D Feb 09 21:31:51 I don't even want the systray thing to work (I know xchat's systray component does not) Feb 09 21:31:53 :P Feb 09 21:32:02 now to get the media player to stop being racist to Turkish and we're all set!@ Feb 09 21:32:04 =} Feb 09 21:32:34 zChris, not seen it, but there is a great looking astronomy app on its way/just in testing Feb 09 21:32:34 Arif_: ^^ Feb 09 21:32:39 Well lets just convince my phone company they need to gibve me a N900 than :P Feb 09 21:32:51 yes Feb 09 21:32:56 you should :P Feb 09 21:32:59 * Aranel is a real problem solver. yay! Feb 09 21:33:09 now someone write an app that can make the N900 make Turkish tea Feb 09 21:33:11 and I'm all set Feb 09 21:33:57 sorry, theres an pp for english tea only, theres no translation for it at this time Feb 09 21:34:01 Aijse, I've found that the thing I like most about my N900 is how you can write the programs and commit them to the repository using only the device itself. Feb 09 21:34:04 ew Feb 09 21:34:09 I don't want painted water Feb 09 21:34:12 :( Feb 09 21:34:15 Aijse, the comic widget is written mostly in the can ;) Feb 09 21:34:27 we can tell mece Feb 09 21:34:28 Aijse, err, while on the can :) Feb 09 21:34:33 lcuk, thanks. Feb 09 21:34:36 mece, sounds challenging Feb 09 21:34:51 lcuk: yeah but can you point it to the sky and tell you what stars you are looking at? Feb 09 21:35:06 what happens in the modern era if you run out of loo paper Feb 09 21:35:07 I still wnat my phone to read my heartbeat sensor and combine it with a gps to make some cool graphs Feb 09 21:35:20 lcd screens and bevel edges cants be kind t othe skin Feb 09 21:35:38 Aijse, no usb host mode...? does the sensor have bluetooth? Feb 09 21:35:47 Aijse, ecoach has support afaik for bt sensors Feb 09 21:35:54 mine doesn't ... but im willing to buy 1 Feb 09 21:35:56 on a more positive note, I managed to stream my TV card with kmplayer =D Feb 09 21:36:04 mece, isnt that expensive Feb 09 21:36:14 lcuk, Aijse, cool stuff :) Feb 09 21:36:37 mece, but a dedicated tool, like the polar watches are about 300 euros Feb 09 21:36:55 Aijse, or suunto :) Feb 09 21:37:06 Icuk, ecoach works with maemo? Feb 09 21:37:53 zChris, no, and admitedly thats a v cool feature, especially in places where you have lots of stars Feb 09 21:38:20 here in england even using the best telescope in the world it would just say "you are looking at cloud" Feb 09 21:39:01 lcuk, zChris, I've been thinking about that thing. Pattern matching against stars shouldn't be very hard, well on the scale of pattern matching real world that is. Feb 09 21:39:17 mece, understood Feb 09 21:39:17 WoW Feb 09 21:39:23 ecoach! Feb 09 21:39:27 order the visual pixels by intensity and relative position Feb 09 21:39:30 and then try from there Feb 09 21:39:41 lcuk.. are we talking about stellarium? Feb 09 21:40:20 that was the name of the one i couldnt remember yeah Feb 09 21:40:28 that would be the ultimate showoff software.. pointing the thing towards the sky, and click a star on screen to see info about it... Feb 09 21:40:43 id rather do that with friends faces in the room :) Feb 09 21:40:46 that's the future. I mean proper scifi stuff :) Feb 09 21:40:57 lcuk, well I guess. Feb 09 21:41:06 stars are constant basically Feb 09 21:41:46 mece: i was talking about the Google Sky map which utilises GPS Accelerator and the compass Feb 09 21:41:50 you could fake it convincingly :) Feb 09 21:41:51 lcuk, yes, hence the (relative ease of doing it / the wow factor) ratio would be off the charts... Feb 09 21:42:12 just load up zx spectrum version of elite or something Feb 09 21:42:14 zChris, well, that's not pattern matching now is it. I wan't to use the camera.. Feb 09 21:42:22 lcuk, lol Feb 09 21:42:45 http://www.theonion.com/content/node/28812 Feb 09 21:42:58 does not disappoint, as usual Feb 09 21:43:39 aaaargh.. my adsl modem sucketh. It's bogged down again. Takes ages to load that video. Feb 09 21:43:48 modem reboot makes things fast again. Feb 09 21:44:01 ok, not a video. Feb 09 21:44:20 TomaszD, LOL Feb 09 21:44:36 * Jaffa mutters atg WONTFIX on bug 8955. Feb 09 21:44:37 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8955 Long application names (labels) in the menu are cut at the end Feb 09 21:44:48 yeah... Feb 09 21:45:01 andre__: Apologies for the rant I've just adde.d Feb 09 21:45:02 fading out, says the Spec. which is ignored currently. Feb 09 21:45:14 I think they don Feb 09 21:45:19 t want to change the grid Feb 09 21:45:42 Nope, they dont' fade out either. At least that wouldn't look so stupid. Feb 09 21:45:42 Jaffa, stab me in the eye. Feb 09 21:45:44 God I hate Nokia. Feb 09 21:45:54 In regards to using the camera to pattern match stars, is the camera good enough to detect stars? the moon certainly. But in a hazy city, or in overcast England it might no work too well. Feb 09 21:46:13 Jaffa: all operating systems just cut names Feb 09 21:46:38 jophish, well in a city, you don't really see the stars either way, so your point is moot Feb 09 21:46:46 jacekowski: Pardon? Feb 09 21:46:46 Wrapping is such an obvious solution. Feb 09 21:46:58 what i would like to get is a menu that's like symbian menu Feb 09 21:47:06 where you can assign stuff to subfolders Feb 09 21:47:14 jacekowski: You can do that on Maemo Feb 09 21:47:17 mece: Is the camera good enough to catch all the relatives stars to make a correct guess ? Feb 09 21:47:21 mece, I stand correctedd. Feb 09 21:47:31 not like in N900 where you either can have it like in app manager Feb 09 21:47:34 zChris. No idea. Feb 09 21:47:38 Jaffa, maybe CC konttori? Feb 09 21:47:43 zChris, I'll check. hold on. Feb 09 21:47:44 Jaffa: how? Feb 09 21:47:46 GeneralAntilles: You're evil ;-) Feb 09 21:47:57 * mece goes outside to check on stars Feb 09 21:48:09 jacekowski: By "have it like in app manager" you mean by using my Catorise package? Feb 09 21:48:19 yeah Feb 09 21:48:22 that's shait Feb 09 21:48:28 jacekowski: That scratches my itch. Edit /etc/xdg/menus/hildon.menu however you want. Feb 09 21:48:35 jacekowski: Oh, how nice of you. Feb 09 21:48:46 Jaffa, it's all about getting things done. He didn't HAVE to take up ownership of Fremantle. :D Feb 09 21:48:49 i want to be able to assign them like i used to be able on symbian phones Feb 09 21:48:53 How hard isit to convert a app that works for example linux qt ? Feb 09 21:48:58 GeneralAntilles: True Feb 09 21:49:01 zChris: very easy Feb 09 21:49:19 jacekowski: I want never gets. Especially if you insult the people most close to developing a tool to do what you want. Feb 09 21:49:19 zChris: as long as it's not using too much memory and will work reasonably on smaller screen Feb 09 21:49:26 Hmm alright Feb 09 21:49:45 Symbian users suffer from entitlement issues, too? Interesting. Feb 09 21:50:05 zChris, no, it does not. :/ Feb 09 21:50:09 Jaffa: i'll do it myself when i'll get to many apps Feb 09 21:50:24 mece: :/ Feb 09 21:50:27 for now it isn't annoying enough for me to bother Feb 09 21:50:33 Btw How well does flash work on N900 ? Feb 09 21:50:39 zChris: quite fast Feb 09 21:50:52 zChris: to be honest i was surprised by it's speed Feb 09 21:50:59 zChris, have a good enough camera to see the stars. At least not where I am. There are streetlights nearby, and a some clouds too, so not really clear, but looks bad. Feb 09 21:51:00 jacekowski: Common courtesy would have you not call something "shit" to the developer's face, though, no? Feb 09 21:51:01 15M/s write Feb 09 21:51:12 Jaffa: shit != shait Feb 09 21:51:27 mece cloudy here too. Feb 09 21:51:45 jacekowski, clearly, shit is in the dictionary. Feb 09 21:52:02 jacekowski: does farmvile work ? ;) Feb 09 21:52:30 zChris: farmvile? Feb 09 21:52:58 GeneralAntilles: I'll poke kontorri about it if I see him online; seems a bit like name dropping to CC him on random bugs ;-) Feb 09 21:53:27 Jaffa, what's the point of wasting all this time if you can't namedrop? :P Feb 09 21:53:38 hahaha Feb 09 21:54:14 jacekowski: Facebook app Feb 09 21:54:21 GeneralAntilles: Truuuueeee.... Feb 09 21:54:32 i don't have facebook account Feb 09 21:54:53 andre__, ping? Feb 09 21:55:00 GeneralAntilles: pong? Feb 09 21:55:06 i know what i'm going to do Feb 09 21:55:14 Xisdibik, wrong Andre! Feb 09 21:55:14 * Jaffa *always* spells "konttori" wrong.. Hmm.. Feb 09 21:55:23 GeneralAntilles: im not an andre at all actualy ;) Feb 09 21:55:32 last.fm scrobbler app Feb 09 21:55:37 Xisdibik, s/pong/ping/? Feb 09 21:55:39 or there is one already? Feb 09 21:55:42 no one ever pings me though, i was feelin lonely Feb 09 21:55:48 Hi! I am new here, just bought the N900 - installing the sdk now. Feb 09 21:55:57 Jaffa, I had to google it every time I wanted to type it for a looong time. Feb 09 21:56:06 Xisdibik, lol. Feb 09 21:57:39 GeneralAntilles, yesh? Feb 09 21:57:46 andre__, you see? http://arrogantandcondescending.blogspot.com/2010/02/me-too.html Feb 09 21:57:50 andre__, mostly the comments. Feb 09 21:59:07 GeneralAntilles, good point. is there a ticket in http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/ ? Feb 09 21:59:26 andre__, not a clue. Feb 09 22:00:31 good evening :) Feb 09 22:01:04 evenin' Feb 09 22:01:43 GeneralAntilles: crashanddie sleeping has meant my comment hasn't shown up yet. Feb 09 22:01:49 hey mece are you familiar with pidgin ? Feb 09 22:01:52 GeneralAntilles, only found https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=180040 and https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=322799 Feb 09 22:01:54 Bug 180040: was not found. Feb 09 22:01:55 Bug 322799: was not found. Feb 09 22:02:00 povbot, you're stupid Feb 09 22:02:01 andre__: Error: "you're" is not a valid command. Feb 09 22:02:05 anpr, on my desktop, yes. Feb 09 22:02:07 Jaffa, yeah, moderated comments are irritating. Feb 09 22:02:17 GeneralAntilles: Short version: "using 'this affects me too' as a shortcut for voting seems like a fine idea to me" Feb 09 22:02:30 Jaffa, it's gotta be one click, though. Feb 09 22:02:31 so it brings all the info from programs like skype and etc ? Feb 09 22:02:43 Not sure how difficult it would be to change the voting setup for that. Feb 09 22:02:56 anpr, well the skype part is kinda pointless imo. Feb 09 22:03:14 I should probably blog and just link to this post. quite wonderful. Feb 09 22:03:27 anpr, it needs the real skype software running.. Feb 09 22:03:58 but it works on n900, doesn't it ? Feb 09 22:04:16 andre__, get ready for commenters asking if you're going to send patches to upstream? :P Feb 09 22:04:17 This might be a dumb question but is N900 strong enough to play xvids ? Feb 09 22:04:37 hmm? :-) Feb 09 22:04:47 zChris, why not? Feb 09 22:05:05 zChris, depends on the resolution and bitrate. Feb 09 22:05:06 andre__: Well isit strong enough for 720p also? :) Feb 09 22:05:06 zChris, do xvids have more weight than other videos? :-P Feb 09 22:05:17 zChris, short answer, though, yes. Feb 09 22:05:18 720p.. come on Feb 09 22:05:24 the screen isn't 720p Feb 09 22:05:38 konfoo: i was more thinking on the tvout :) Feb 09 22:05:53 ntsc/pal is not 720p Feb 09 22:05:56 hi anyone know if its possible to use mplayer instead of gstreamer in the default media player of the N900? Feb 09 22:05:57 tvout matches the 800x480 for pal at least Feb 09 22:06:43 Im drawn between a hero or the n900 Feb 09 22:06:51 a hero = htc hero :P Feb 09 22:07:07 zChris Feb 09 22:07:10 youre not going to find anyone in marketing on this channel Feb 09 22:07:22 zChris, n900 is a more powerful device Feb 09 22:07:22 ehm, wanna suffer from WM? Feb 09 22:07:51 zChris, well I guess it depends on what you want. It's like choosing between a machete and a rocket launcher. Feb 09 22:08:00 lol Feb 09 22:08:03 maybe it mayb be more user friendly first... but i have bad feelings to it somehow.. Feb 09 22:08:46 GeneralAntilles: Yeah, as a one-click shortcut; and more prominent; than voting. Feb 09 22:09:21 + Feb 09 22:09:27 - Feb 09 22:09:36 * Feb 09 22:09:42 mece: more like a fly swatter, and a nuclear bomb :D Feb 09 22:09:53 :D:D:D Feb 09 22:09:57 is it just me or does using exchange as a mail service seem to suck down battery life Feb 09 22:10:13 konfoo, I hear it does. Feb 09 22:10:32 konfoo: Having my MfE service set to always on, i get better battery life than i would with IMAP at 5/10 and maybe 15 minutes, but less than IMAP set at 30minute + intervals Feb 09 22:10:37 exchange = evil Feb 09 22:10:54 but i get the benefit of getting my mail right away ;) Feb 09 22:11:07 ive been running gmail imap for a while but adding exchange has just hammered the battery life Feb 09 22:11:09 and I mean evil in a bad way, not the nice evil, like Christopher Walken. Feb 09 22:11:23 even with the shortest sync thresholds Feb 09 22:11:38 konfoo: are you syncing with gmail or exchange? Feb 09 22:11:47 both (two accounts) Feb 09 22:12:04 well thats probably why.. as its 2 mail accounts, more battery drain Feb 09 22:12:13 I synced gmail through IMAP, and now through MfE, so its still just one account Feb 09 22:12:21 Jaffa, think it should be implemented as a patch to the voting system or as another system entirely? Feb 09 22:12:26 yours is using battery for IMAP. and for MfE, two different protocols afaik Feb 09 22:12:37 i didnt notice much hit with imap, was my point Feb 09 22:12:46 Can I use my n900 as a webcam for my pc? Feb 09 22:12:49 mfe seems to have impacted it exponentially Feb 09 22:12:55 dunno, my phone lasts 24 hours+, so its fine for me Feb 09 22:13:10 anyway i'll just remove exchange. hell its only work email ;) Feb 09 22:13:21 yea who wants work at home :p Feb 09 22:13:29 ha exactly Feb 09 22:13:56 GeneralAntilles, it should be the voting thing Feb 09 22:14:07 no point in having 2 buttons which mean the same thing Feb 09 22:14:18 people should only be voting for bugs if they experience em themselves anyway Feb 09 22:14:31 he luck Feb 09 22:14:53 and move that damned comment box to the bottom too Feb 09 22:15:12 GeneralAntilles: On top of the existing system. Feb 09 22:15:42 lcuk I think you was one row before me at the fosdem in the dsp talk Feb 09 22:16:22 cripes, you saw me nearly fallin asleep then o_O Feb 09 22:16:30 * Jaffa beds Feb 09 22:16:57 what was you doing at nite? Feb 09 22:16:59 chun1: I don't know of an app but I think it's technically possible to write that Feb 09 22:16:59 woglinde, someone did walk from behind whenthe talk was finished and i was just idling on flow Feb 09 22:17:06 woglinde, drinking Feb 09 22:17:11 bah Feb 09 22:17:15 and actually a bit of work Feb 09 22:17:20 and coding Feb 09 22:17:22 Jaffa: please add dependency on perl to catorise Feb 09 22:17:26 and socializing Feb 09 22:17:44 lol, lcuk - I saw you there, the talk *was* boring =) Feb 09 22:17:45 woglinde, why didnt you say hi Feb 09 22:17:49 wasnt sure Feb 09 22:17:56 :D mikhas Feb 09 22:18:00 Jaffa: as now perl+perl-modules are 'free to be removed' on my n900 Feb 09 22:18:01 the talk was good Feb 09 22:18:04 did anyone notice rebooting on Web app? (not random reboot, only sometimes when using Web) Feb 09 22:18:04 hm Feb 09 22:18:07 i made tonnes of notes to ask simon about Feb 09 22:18:28 hm are you sure? Feb 09 22:18:30 i like the principles of dsp Feb 09 22:18:33 and is it possible to get log files of crash? Feb 09 22:18:42 was mostly about dead dspbridge Feb 09 22:18:49 only new was syslink Feb 09 22:18:57 I asked Koen about it today Feb 09 22:19:11 woglinde, they couldv been talking about belgium truffles Feb 09 22:19:22 *g* Feb 09 22:19:31 for all i know about dsps Feb 09 22:19:43 so if you say it was old ill take your word over mine :D Feb 09 22:20:02 hm Feb 09 22:20:19 pupnik was next to me, i wonder if he did a 360 Feb 09 22:20:26 * woglinde was only at 3 talks Feb 09 22:20:31 hmm, wonder if i should take some screens of my new fancy ui and post a blogpost Feb 09 22:20:38 karma whore :P Feb 09 22:20:41 * frals is quite pleased with what the ui designers came up with Feb 09 22:22:11 frals, ui for what? Feb 09 22:22:23 fMMS Feb 09 22:23:20 frals, :) Feb 09 22:23:27 frals, please do Feb 09 22:24:05 Whyyyyyy can't this stupid widget show up after a reboot? Grr Argh (mutant enemy) Feb 09 22:25:55 ora viva Feb 09 22:30:40 guys Feb 09 22:30:58 anpr, ... come sail away, come sail away, come sail away with me... ? Feb 09 22:31:26 would you mind to help to discuss about hero and n900 ? Feb 09 22:31:41 hero < N900 Feb 09 22:31:47 'nuff said. Feb 09 22:31:51 yeah, but zChris wants facts Feb 09 22:31:52 tis true Feb 09 22:31:59 look at the hardware specs Feb 09 22:32:23 why Feb 09 22:32:23 yeah, but everyday usage, apps, support and etc Feb 09 22:32:50 if he wants a bazillion nearly useless apps, get a hero Feb 09 22:32:58 anpr, well int that case, let me quote myself: "mece: hero < N900" Feb 09 22:33:08 ;) Feb 09 22:33:13 Biger companies behind hero apps though :S Feb 09 22:33:42 mece i would say myself hero <*n n900 Feb 09 22:33:48 zChris, well, that changes things to this: N900 > Hero Feb 09 22:34:03 mece: Funneh :P Feb 09 22:34:13 ok seriously though, It's a completely different beast. Feb 09 22:34:46 it all depends on what you want to do Feb 09 22:35:07 if you want to have a more 'free' experience, get an n900 and hack away Feb 09 22:35:24 if you want to be trendy and locked down, get an android device Feb 09 22:35:34 naturally I'm speaking for myself. Feb 09 22:35:36 tripzero: locked down ? Feb 09 22:36:11 zChris, android is more locked down than maemo is Feb 09 22:36:12 This is what it boils down to for me: maemo makes android look like pong. Feb 09 22:36:12 hmm Feb 09 22:36:26 how do I edit a number that is in the call log? Feb 09 22:36:31 a nice, shiny pong, but pong nevertheless. Feb 09 22:36:42 or is it indeed so retarded that I can't do anything about it? Feb 09 22:37:01 zChris, ie, try making an app that controls the phone on android. You will find quickly android locks you out of a lot of functionality Feb 09 22:37:07 there used to be a topic describing how to connect 2 sip calls on maemo 8x0, anyone remembers that? Feb 09 22:37:23 tripzero: yeah but that dosent affect me that much which ones is abit more open than the other Feb 09 22:38:10 zChris, if you want to be able to play, say xvid or ogg, or any other codec, it does matter Feb 09 22:38:38 tripzero: Hero cant play xvid or ogg? Feb 09 22:38:53 hero is a joke in comparison. come on, i cant believe this conversation is going on Feb 09 22:38:53 zChris, well I guess either one would work fine. If you need MfE on a server that only allows provisional devices, then n900 is not for you :) Feb 09 22:39:04 zChris, http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=1581 Feb 09 22:39:23 konfoo, hero seems like a nice phone. All shiny and thin... Feb 09 22:39:23 http://androidcommunity.com/forums/f10/divx-xvid-14668/ Feb 09 22:39:33 ..and vapid Feb 09 22:39:51 my n900 is my laptop. Feb 09 22:39:55 does android have git? Feb 09 22:40:05 does android have ssh-server? Feb 09 22:40:10 haha Feb 09 22:40:10 sigh Feb 09 22:41:02 tripzero: not that i use ogg Feb 09 22:41:08 my laptop is my laptop Feb 09 22:41:10 do you use xvid? Feb 09 22:41:25 what about flash? Feb 09 22:41:34 does reggie ever come into irc? Feb 09 22:41:36 tripzero: yes. both of em Feb 09 22:41:48 than you may want to double check if android supports them Feb 09 22:41:57 i know it doesn't have flash support, at least not on the nexus Feb 09 22:42:05 it doesnt? Feb 09 22:42:05 Is there an easy way to set from the command line the background image for a desktop? Feb 09 22:42:05 I was playing with my n900 and thought, damn, it would be nice to check out the project directly, and not have to scp it over. So I casually did apt-get install git, not thinking it would find it. Then it did, and my heart fluttered... <3 Feb 09 22:42:19 tripzero: hero support flash from what i know Feb 09 22:42:43 okay, i see that now Feb 09 22:42:48 i wonder why the nexus doesn't have it Feb 09 22:42:49 guys is it possible to categorise your apps by yourself ? Feb 09 22:42:51 zChris, really? That's pretty cool. Feb 09 22:42:59 i've downloaded categorise app Feb 09 22:43:00 mece: how come? Feb 09 22:43:05 but i didn't really liked it Feb 09 22:43:24 zChris, well flash is nice. I didn't know you could browse flash in hero. Feb 09 22:43:26 zChris, last time i heard, android's video playback sucks Feb 09 22:43:58 lol flash is not nice Feb 09 22:44:00 and the ui has latency issues Feb 09 22:44:01 what's wrong with you? Feb 09 22:44:34 redeeman, ok no, it's not. but I do like to have the option, since the world (wide web) is a fracked up place. Feb 09 22:44:41 redeeman: I like flash when its used right Feb 09 22:44:42 zChris, finally, you should probably find a friend that has each and play around with them for a while. see which one you like more Feb 09 22:44:55 zChris: theres no such thing Feb 09 22:45:00 tripzero: Ive tried the hero .. it didnt feel that good Feb 09 22:45:16 anyone coded/ported a ripper for last.fm ? Feb 09 22:45:26 zChris, do you use linux on your pc? Feb 09 22:45:33 redeeman: are you from c++newbs in qnet? :D Feb 09 22:45:37 yes Feb 09 22:45:52 mece: No Feb 09 22:45:54 it is flash lite Feb 09 22:45:57 much like symbian Feb 09 22:46:04 redeeman: ^^ Feb 09 22:46:21 http://us.blizzard.com/en-us/ <-- good use of flash imo. Awesome Feb 09 22:46:23 ok for simple video but does not work with complicated apps Feb 09 22:46:28 Arkenoi, ok so hero does _not_ support flash... Feb 09 22:46:38 zChris: its physically impossible to properly use flash Feb 09 22:46:50 it is an abomination that by all means should be treated as a plague Feb 09 22:46:52 zChris: diablo3 is cool site Feb 09 22:46:55 for most sites (besides games) flash lite is enough Feb 09 22:47:02 mece: http://www.adobe.com/devnet/devices/articles/htchero.html Feb 09 22:47:10 Flash 10 for Hero Feb 09 22:47:18 hmm Feb 09 22:47:29 zChris: http://us.blizzard.com/diablo3/?rhtml=y Feb 09 22:47:31 :) Feb 09 22:47:55 ifreq: *Drools* BLizzard is very talented in design and graphics :) Feb 09 22:47:56 thats cool look Feb 09 22:48:12 tripzero: you seriously saying andriod doesn't have sshd? Feb 09 22:48:19 yeah :) theyv got money into gfx too :) Feb 09 22:48:20 tybollt, does it? Feb 09 22:48:34 tripzero: *jaw drop* if it doesnt ;) Feb 09 22:48:44 lemme confirm that... Feb 09 22:48:51 i saw ssh client in the app store Feb 09 22:48:54 but no sshd Feb 09 22:49:23 it's not running a gnuish system, so i dont think there's bash and such, but i could be off here. Feb 09 22:49:37 Android's downside is the *nix userland being treated as an also-ran Feb 09 22:49:37 jebba: ill agree with you Feb 09 22:49:37 busybox Feb 09 22:49:44 its more like iphone os in that way :P Feb 09 22:49:52 heavily favoring the Java sandbox Feb 09 22:50:08 tybollt, i'm told that it doesn't have sshd Feb 09 22:50:13 as I mentioned before, pong... Feb 09 22:50:15 there is sshd but its complete hackery to get it onto the device Feb 09 22:50:48 Are you able to put N900 wlan in monitoring mode btw? And to use injections? Feb 09 22:50:58 mece++ Feb 09 22:51:01 can i categorise my apps without any specifig app ? Feb 09 22:51:03 zChris monitor mode is posible Feb 09 22:51:05 with iw tools Feb 09 22:51:06 mece: git me yer pong buddy :) Feb 09 22:51:08 injections? Feb 09 22:51:17 injections. lul Feb 09 22:51:28 flash 10 is nice though. Is that out yet? I mean if you buy a hero, will it have flash 10 installed? Feb 09 22:51:30 tybollt: it's ~mece++ Feb 09 22:51:34 come on man, its a handheld device. be realistic Feb 09 22:51:40 ~mece++ Feb 09 22:51:44 konfoo????? Feb 09 22:51:51 crashanddie: the bots all hate me :S Feb 09 22:52:02 tybollt: he just doesn't listen to you Feb 09 22:52:10 * mece does not know what that ++ means Feb 09 22:52:19 karma Feb 09 22:52:22 mece: add 1 Feb 09 22:52:23 konfoo with the right chipset you can do all the fancy things Feb 09 22:52:36 oh, didn't know you could do that. Feb 09 22:52:57 thanks :) Feb 09 22:53:20 woglinde: right but you're wasting your time doing anything more than the basics i.e. youre not going to be brute-forcing using an n900 Feb 09 22:53:45 hmhm, the media player sometimes mess with songs ordering Feb 09 22:53:47 wonder why Feb 09 22:54:03 konfoo but as I said with iw tools you can clone the dev and set it into monitor mode Feb 09 22:54:23 but thats the only support iw tells Feb 09 22:54:52 nite all, sweet dreams Feb 09 22:54:55 Ive heard that the GPS with OVI maps (?) aint that good with the N900 Feb 09 22:55:09 zChris yes partly Feb 09 22:55:35 :/ Feb 09 22:55:37 zChris, yeah, it's craptacular Feb 09 22:55:48 Isit the hardware or the software thats the problem ? Feb 09 22:56:03 the software Feb 09 22:56:03 zChris, soft. Feb 09 22:56:13 Who develops the software? Nokia themself? Feb 09 22:56:14 Hello people.. I installed mplayer but it still plays divx/xvid files rather choppy. Is there a way to increase the performance I tried -framedrop but that really didn't do much Feb 09 22:56:30 reencode the source files Feb 09 22:56:42 konfoo, :( Feb 09 22:56:56 download lower resolution rips? :P Feb 09 22:57:08 its just divx.. nothing special.. Feb 09 22:57:14 zChris, well yeah, but they seem to have given up on the N900 in the navigation area. There's some other company that's offering a navigation solution for much €€ though. Feb 09 22:57:17 what resolution/codecs? Feb 09 22:57:23 my palm troe played movies better then this did tho Feb 09 22:57:23 he Feb 09 22:57:25 mece: :/ Feb 09 22:57:31 and I am working on navit Feb 09 22:57:33 h/o let me find it Feb 09 22:57:59 HTC hd 2 > N900 ? Feb 09 22:58:20 VIDEO: [XVID] 592x240 12bpp 25.000 fps 908.0 kbps (110.8 kbyte/s) Feb 09 22:58:20 Clip info: Feb 09 22:58:20 Software: VirtualDubMod 1.5.10.2 (build 2540/release) Feb 09 22:58:20 ========================================================================== Feb 09 22:58:20 Opening video decoder: [ffmpeg] FFmpeg's libavcodec codec family Feb 09 22:58:21 Selected video codec: [ffodivx] vfm: ffmpeg (FFmpeg MPEG-4) Feb 09 22:58:24 LOOOOL Feb 09 22:59:03 zChris, nice screen on that one. Feb 09 22:59:05 try remuxing it into a 'real' .mp4 and see if the built-in player will decode it Feb 09 22:59:23 jo timeless Feb 09 22:59:36 Ok - I find a gconf variable - /var/lib/gconf/apps/osso/hildon-desktop/views/4/\%gconf.xml Feb 09 22:59:46 Im trying to think of codecs are least taxing but do not cause excessive disk io Feb 09 22:59:57 ment for the n900 Feb 09 22:59:58 Is there a nice way to change this - and to tell the app using it that it's changed? Feb 09 23:00:28 lcuk: karmawhoring done; http://blog.frals.se/2010/02/10/ui-improvements-in-fmms/ ;) Feb 09 23:00:32 few codecs -cause- disk IO Feb 09 23:00:45 you want a codec that can be decoded using the dsp and the built-in or a gstreamer mediaplayer. mplayer just does software decode on the n900 afaik. so mpeg4 es for transport, h264/h263 for video Feb 09 23:01:18 probably base profile no cabac etc as well Feb 09 23:01:27 zChris, htc hd 2 seems to have the best hardware (for mainstream media consuming people) of all the phones out there. Feb 09 23:01:35 the built-in media player won't read any mp4 file I throw at it, sadly Feb 09 23:01:36 theres a transocding tool on the talk forums iirc, or you could use something like handbrake Feb 09 23:01:38 only baseline profile of h264 Feb 09 23:01:40 built in player uses gstreamer as well Feb 09 23:02:11 frals, :) Feb 09 23:02:13 zChris, htc hd2 uses WinMo, also known as ShitMo Feb 09 23:02:23 ~frals++ Feb 09 23:02:42 wtf already on planet, must have timed it pretty good Feb 09 23:02:44 zaheerm: i heard nothing from your company re cdn deployment/pricing... Feb 09 23:03:06 appearently the more tag is not the correct way to make it break on planet, DOH Feb 09 23:03:12 zChris, well, from what I hear :) The title of the gizmodo review says it all: "HTC Touch HD2 Review: A Tragedy" Feb 09 23:03:43 zChris, so apparently it's not good. Feb 09 23:03:54 konfoo, i bypassed sales and sent it to the ceo Feb 09 23:04:26 konfoo, i think you could be an important partner, so he is going to contact you Feb 09 23:04:39 zaheerm: great thanks ;) Feb 09 23:05:45 * mece bows down to the awesomeness that is frals Feb 09 23:06:03 alrighty, I'm off now. Bye Feb 09 23:06:33 guys is it possible to categorise your apps by yourself ? Feb 09 23:07:18 anpr, I thought I answered that already. There's that other menu program that allows you to do that. The one that's not Catorise. I forget what it's called. Feb 09 23:07:40 * mece is looking it up... Feb 09 23:08:04 hmmm Feb 09 23:08:09 and it is ? Feb 09 23:08:39 patience young grasshopper Feb 09 23:08:52 So I got the ps3 DS3 to work.. it is very very nice Feb 09 23:09:07 Much better replacement for the wiimote Feb 09 23:09:26 anpr, MyMenu Feb 09 23:09:34 how to import gadu-gadu buddy list on n900? Feb 09 23:09:39 anpr, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=39141 Feb 09 23:10:04 jacekowski, is it not automagical when adding the account? Feb 09 23:11:18 no Feb 09 23:11:47 mece is it in app manager ? Feb 09 23:11:52 jacekowski, does it connect (I'm just speculating here, since I don't even know what gadugadu is) :D Feb 09 23:11:57 so err, what tag do i need to add so planet-maemo actually cuts my post above my image spam? Feb 09 23:12:05 anpr, perhaps.. Feb 09 23:12:25 yes it does Feb 09 23:13:02 anpr, It's in extras-testing Feb 09 23:13:11 Any mac users have experience with N900? Like does iSync work well? with icallender? contacts? as a remote? thank in advance Feb 09 23:13:24 huh, so i can not download it directly from my phone ? Feb 09 23:13:57 anpr, well if you don't know what it means that it's in extras-testing then I don't think you should, no. Feb 09 23:15:35 Aijse: There's a testing-grade iSync plugin for the N900 Feb 09 23:15:40 Works quite well for me. Feb 09 23:15:42 anpr, go here: http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras-testing and read the red box first. Then the rest. Feb 09 23:16:17 Shadika, what did u manage to sync? calenders contacts ...? Feb 09 23:18:18 Is there a way to create a virtual cd rom device so that when you plug it into an old pc (no usb boot support) it can load a selected iso image? Feb 09 23:19:42 dotblank, you mean like the sdk on a live cd? Feb 09 23:20:16 no. Feb 09 23:20:18 mount with the loop option Feb 09 23:20:23 mece, sure why not.. or a system recovery disk.. the point is to have many isos and is user selectable Feb 09 23:20:26 He (or she) means a USB-cdrom driver Feb 09 23:20:41 yea exactly Feb 09 23:20:41 so the n900 acts like a cdrom Feb 09 23:20:45 USB-cdrom driver Feb 09 23:20:58 In principle, it's 'just' another USB gadget driver. Feb 09 23:21:07 I don't however know if it's been implemented. Feb 09 23:21:09 ooh. I see. Feb 09 23:21:21 Or if it is - if the module is included in the kernel - prolly not. Feb 09 23:21:24 it would be like any virtual cdrom program.. allows you to mount and umount while it is plugged in Feb 09 23:21:26 Though that could be fixed Feb 09 23:21:33 there is certainly no UI Feb 09 23:22:03 Could just make a new entry in the options pop up when it is plugged in.. Feb 09 23:22:13 like Virtual CD-Rom Feb 09 23:22:50 then you would use either something in settings to manage it or another app altogether Feb 09 23:22:54 unrelated, but pretty badass http://www.tmz.com/2010/02/09/androgynous-person-robs-bank-with-crossbow/ Feb 09 23:24:21 http://markmail.org/message/x2kmf3vfixap4ocu Feb 09 23:24:32 seems liek there was a patch to enable this functionality Feb 09 23:24:33 * mece just realized that frals är svensk! OMG! Feb 09 23:24:45 not as impressive, but much funnier: http://feeds.reuters.com/%7Er/reuters/oddlyEnoughNews/%7E3/GJ67tKnqMCQ/idUSTRE6183IR20100209 <-- Thief robs arcade with cup of coffee Feb 09 23:24:59 mece: the ".se" in my domain tipped you off? ;-) Feb 09 23:25:04 "alskar sverige! Feb 09 23:25:11 frals, quite. Feb 09 23:25:26 The file_storage gadget driver seems to suport emulation of a CD from an image on a cursory reading Feb 09 23:25:45 Jag larde mig svenska Feb 09 23:26:04 is this path included in the gadget driver currently in the n900? Feb 09 23:26:05 dotblank: So it seems plausible. Feb 09 23:26:06 jävla svenskara Feb 09 23:26:11 patch* Feb 09 23:26:22 dotblank: it's not a parch - it's part of the kernel Feb 09 23:26:25 hehe, swedish is the new world language i heard :rolleyes: Feb 09 23:26:38 ok Feb 09 23:26:45 oldpatch is old. Feb 09 23:26:46 So what would it take to enable it Feb 09 23:26:52 nha, it's only that the chicks are hot so people get all the bonuses they can Feb 09 23:27:13 crashanddie: good point Feb 09 23:27:18 * mece is a finn whose main language is swedish... Feb 09 23:27:42 What would be really cool is if you can burn CDs and it will save a .iso on your phone Feb 09 23:27:59 dotblank: building that module for the kernel, installing it, and adding a GUI to configure it Feb 09 23:28:08 http://farm1.static.flickr.com/153/373225236_8c66202514_o.jpg <-- swedish! Feb 09 23:28:20 dotblank: it won't be able to do that. you could add that funcitonality in in principle. Feb 09 23:29:10 SpeedEvil, isn't php Finnish... Feb 09 23:29:38 mece: ? Feb 09 23:29:51 err sorry wrong person.. Feb 09 23:29:56 ah Feb 09 23:30:10 * mece meant crashanddie, isn't php Finnish... Feb 09 23:30:22 the keys are right next to each other. Feb 09 23:30:34 danish if I remember correctly Feb 09 23:32:09 crashanddie, oh yes, right you are. I was confusing it with something else.. Feb 09 23:37:45 oh well. It's been swell, but the swelling's gone down. I'm out. Feb 09 23:38:39 anyone here posting on maemo planet? Feb 09 23:39:07 if so, do you guys know why my feed doesn't provide any snippet of my post? It just shows the title and that's it Feb 09 23:39:16 im aggregated Feb 09 23:39:32 i got the opposite problem, it shows the whole post instead of cutting at the mark :P Feb 09 23:40:14 what mark? Feb 09 23:40:38 you're supposed to have a mark? Feb 09 23:40:42 uh, wordpress got some tag or such if you look at http://blog.frals.se Feb 09 23:40:54 dont think so, as planet-maemo just ignores it.. :P Feb 09 23:41:06 hmm... I'm using blogger Feb 09 23:41:12 know of any aggregated blog that uses blogger? Feb 09 23:42:09 found one Feb 09 23:43:57 crashanddie, 1000 words is usually the cutoff Feb 09 23:44:11 but the logic for doing snippets and cutoff seems very broken Feb 09 23:44:14 Patches welcome, I suppose. Feb 09 23:44:20 hmm Feb 09 23:44:28 I don't understand why it doesn't show *anything* Feb 09 23:44:57 * GeneralAntilles hasn't looked at the code. Feb 09 23:46:10 the planet feed processor shows whats in the rss doesnt it? ie if the rss sends out 100 words then thats all you get? Feb 09 23:46:20 slashdot throws out walls of text Feb 09 23:46:26 planet doesnt alter them! Feb 09 23:46:37 lcuk, does too. Feb 09 23:46:40 Or should Feb 09 23:46:42 Usually Feb 09 23:47:07 :( Feb 09 23:47:57 * lcuk aggregates crashan Feb 09 23:48:31 I think I gave the wrong link to X-Fade yesterday Feb 09 23:48:39 or well, he gave it to himself, tbh :P Feb 09 23:48:44 X-Fade: not around anymore? Feb 09 23:49:02 crashanddie, what do you think? :P Feb 09 23:51:36 GeneralAntilles: jaja Feb 10 00:00:03 guys which brand of laptos do you prefer ( except apple ) ? :) Feb 10 00:00:17 none Feb 10 00:00:30 im happy with my dell, has served me great the last 2 years :P Feb 10 00:00:30 only PCs ? Feb 10 00:00:45 on my second sony at home, works great Feb 10 00:01:18 anpr: actually, I'd go for one of those Loongson laptops probably Feb 10 00:01:52 luke-jr what's that ? Feb 10 00:01:59 mips cpu Feb 10 00:02:02 never heard of those Feb 10 00:02:29 Loongson is a MIPS CPU with acceleration for x86 emulation Feb 10 00:03:17 It's china's first attempt at a homegrown CPU Feb 10 00:03:19 anpr: apple :P Feb 10 00:03:21 http://www.lemote.com/english/yeeloong.html Feb 10 00:03:28 cool stuff luke-jr ty Feb 10 00:05:24 luke-jr :) Feb 10 00:05:35 anpr: I really like the Apple ones I have to say, latest gen of macbook pro's are very sturdy, well finished and you can get one for $1000 Feb 10 00:05:45 which is hardly any monies these days Feb 10 00:05:58 perspective Feb 10 00:06:04 crashanddie: they're x86 crap Feb 10 00:06:17 I don't see anything regarding x86 execution though Feb 10 00:06:20 and for $1000 I'd want something much smaller Feb 10 00:06:34 luke-jr: smaller? Feb 10 00:06:43 * lcuk beds Feb 10 00:06:47 lcuk: night mate Feb 10 00:06:48 gnite seb Feb 10 00:07:09 ml-maemo: my bad, that laptop only has Loongson-2 Feb 10 00:07:13 lcuk: have time to look at one picture? Feb 10 00:07:15 ml-maemo: x86 accel is new with 3 Feb 10 00:07:25 crashanddie: pocket-sized Feb 10 00:07:40 luke-jr: then you're not looking at laptops, numbnuts Feb 10 00:07:42 heh, but i am used to windows OS Feb 10 00:07:42 ahh, those are the systems RMS likes Feb 10 00:07:44 crashanddie Feb 10 00:07:58 lcuk: http://www.flickr.com/photos/slauwers/4343015069/sizes/l/ Feb 10 00:08:21 rms. haha. sigh Feb 10 00:08:46 ~konfoo++ Feb 10 00:09:06 nothing special about MIPS though Feb 10 00:09:11 the only thing rms needs is a bath Feb 10 00:09:18 not terribly fast, either Feb 10 00:09:22 nice pic crashanddie Feb 10 00:09:27 ml-maemo: compared to x86, it sure is Feb 10 00:10:24 ah, Loongson-3 uses a lot more power :x Feb 10 00:10:24 thanks poitsu Feb 10 00:10:37 well, relative I guess Feb 10 00:10:47 I'm sure a modern x86 chip at 1GHz would outperform the longsoon2 Feb 10 00:10:53 indeed seb, its great. did you/can you climb it? Feb 10 00:11:01 lcuk: I could, but I didn't Feb 10 00:11:04 Loongson-2 was only 1.2 GHz single-core; Loongson-3 is 1 GHz quad-core Feb 10 00:11:13 shame, if you return get the inverse shot back down Feb 10 00:11:13 ml-maemo: highly unlikely Feb 10 00:11:17 ml-maemo: x86 is terrible Feb 10 00:11:19 use n900 too! Feb 10 00:11:23 lcuk: it was a spyshot, just stopped on the side of the road Feb 10 00:11:53 unusually good contrast in the clouds Feb 10 00:12:10 poitsu: I "enhanced" the picture Feb 10 00:12:29 ah, gave the sky a bit of manual HDR ? :) Feb 10 00:12:35 i've done that Feb 10 00:12:49 lemme dig up the original Feb 10 00:13:18 luke-jr: high end P3s/low end P4s ran at 1GHz too, so it's currently equal to 3 gens prior x86 tech Feb 10 00:13:27 poitsu: http://imagebin.org/84064 Feb 10 00:13:58 ah thanks! Feb 10 00:14:10 ml-maemo: fail Feb 10 00:14:21 ml-maemo: 1 GHz x86 is like 200 MHz anything else Feb 10 00:14:21 crashanddie, thats even better Feb 10 00:14:22 oh? Feb 10 00:14:42 and the page you linked states just that Feb 10 00:14:58 luke-jr, its not that much difference Feb 10 00:15:04 lcuk: I'm exaggerating obviously :P Feb 10 00:15:17 yes, and im sleepircing Feb 10 00:15:20 gnite Feb 10 00:15:23 luke-jr: how about you stop trolling about it Feb 10 00:15:53 nite lcuk Feb 10 00:15:58 luke-jr: I mean, seriously. x86 is here to stay, I'm not saying it's the best for mobile, but a laptop isn't exactly mobile. It's a compromise between reasonable performance and software availability and portability Feb 10 00:16:18 gnite pupnik Feb 10 00:16:57 whereas with a new (or old, but unpopular) architecture you need to build a whole new framework, there are no available tools and it just sucks because it's not mature enouh Feb 10 00:17:01 crashanddie: no reason to use x86 when you can just pack a bunch of ARM/MIPS/etc in the same power/space Feb 10 00:17:04 s/uh/ugh/ Feb 10 00:17:04 crashanddie meant: whereas with a new (or old, but unpopular) architecture you need to build a whole new framework, there are no available tools and it just sucks because it's not mature enough Feb 10 00:17:20 nonsense Feb 10 00:17:23 just recompile everything Feb 10 00:17:36 luke-jr: you're an idiot. Feb 10 00:17:42 nou Feb 10 00:18:09 luke-jr: the world doesn't revolve around code that compiles seamlessly on every architecture in the world Feb 10 00:18:19 and if you fail to understand that, what the fuck are you doing here? Feb 10 00:18:28 building a mips kernel is a bitch Feb 10 00:18:40 crashanddie: all half-sane code compiles seamlessly on every architecture GCC supports Feb 10 00:18:55 minus platform-specific stuff like kernels :) Feb 10 00:19:42 luke-jr, the only thing that offers is a better bios thats why RMS likes it Feb 10 00:20:01 openstandards: from RMS's perspective, sure Feb 10 00:20:02 in any case, only real threat to x86 is ARM Feb 10 00:20:42 x86 is much more compatible Feb 10 00:21:06 openstandards: compatible? just recompile everything Feb 10 00:21:28 luke-jr, you don't always have the source code to recompile Feb 10 00:21:35 openstandards: I don't use what I don't have source for. Feb 10 00:21:58 I don't believe x86 is under any threat Feb 10 00:22:05 * timeless_mbp frowns Feb 10 00:22:08 who pinged me? Feb 10 00:22:09 and why would one recompile all the time rather pick up a distro i can use straight away Feb 10 00:22:11 as much as LPARs aren't under threat from x86 Feb 10 00:22:28 openstandards: you recompile once, not all the time. Feb 10 00:22:56 it's still cool seeing the chinese making cpus Feb 10 00:23:10 rather than taiwaneese children? Feb 10 00:23:35 luke-jr, seems to much hassle if you ask me and poitsu the chinese are trying to make a super computer.... Feb 10 00:23:52 openstandards: my system compiles everything anyway. there's no new hassle Feb 10 00:23:54 https://secure.aclu.org/site/Advocacy?cmd=display&page=UserAction&id=1961 Google considering entering agreement with NSA. Petition them to not do it! Feb 10 00:24:23 Jaffa: fwiw, i generally get his nick name, unless it tab completes :/ Feb 10 00:25:15 poitsu, http://techie-buzz.com/linux-news/chinas-supercomputer-linux.html Feb 10 00:26:30 * timeless_mbp goes to read http://arrogantandcondescending.blogspot.com/2010/02/me-too.html Feb 10 00:29:20 * timeless_mbp looks for sebastian Feb 10 00:29:33 poitsu: why Feb 10 00:29:51 * timeless_mbp pokes crashanddie Feb 10 00:30:04 crashanddie: in that article, "out a few hundreds of . You’re wrong" Feb 10 00:30:13 you seem to be missing something before that period :( Feb 10 00:30:15 timeless_mbp: that article is totally screwed up Feb 10 00:30:34 luke-jr: so... Feb 10 00:30:40 the aclu amuses me greatly Feb 10 00:30:55 timeless_mbp: oh, stupid blogger didn't like my Feb 10 00:30:57 konfoo: why? Feb 10 00:31:49 see re google/aclu deal Feb 10 00:31:58 url? Feb 10 00:32:15 ^ Feb 10 00:32:41 is Marius Gedminas on irc? Feb 10 00:32:47 mgedmin Feb 10 00:32:51 povbot, etc. Feb 10 00:32:53 GeneralAntilles: Error: "etc." is not a valid command. Feb 10 00:33:02 GeneralAntilles: yeah, but i don't see mgedmin in the channel Feb 10 00:33:09 timeless_mbp: fixed Feb 10 00:33:12 timeless_mbp, he's offline, I suppose. Feb 10 00:33:24 GeneralAntilles: please note that voting does mean in general 'spam me' Feb 10 00:33:38 so it's really just a matter of changing the ui for voting to be easier for normal users Feb 10 00:33:51 but please keep in mind that voting can either be boolean or weighted Feb 10 00:33:59 'me too' ui's only work for boolean Feb 10 00:35:15 luke-jr: so... i see absolutely nothing wrong w/ the post Feb 10 00:35:33 i do think you were actually one of the people i saw who posted an objectionable bug /somewhere/ Feb 10 00:35:38 while i was reviewing that thread Feb 10 00:35:45 i was meaning to verify that it was you Feb 10 00:35:57 (don't ask me the url, or even which bug database, i'm fried) Feb 10 00:36:34 anyone know what xorg.conf might need to see touchscreen? (outside of maemo) Feb 10 00:38:39 and Micron just bought my employer... hmmmmmm Feb 10 00:38:42 konfoo: i really don't know where to begin answering your question. perhaps you could google "warrantless wiretapping" while you still can Feb 10 00:39:06 timeless_mbp: I told luke-jr he was an idiot for being so narrow-minded, he didn't like it, which is probably why he doesn't like the article Feb 10 00:44:19 grr, the comment is broken -.- Feb 10 00:44:21 "Your request could not be processed. Please try again." Feb 10 00:47:14 there, now it submitted Feb 10 00:47:23 meh, after approval-- wonder how censored the blog comments are Feb 10 00:47:59 grr, and their blog prevents me from going back to copy it for myself Feb 10 00:48:13 The blog own rewrites all submitted comments, obviously. Feb 10 00:48:28 who is "Sebastian"? Feb 10 00:48:33 I'm trying to learn how to build apps to run on maemo 5 - anyone willing to answer a question? - I've built the qt tutorial address book app fine on my desktop and fine under the maemo 5 scratchbox - I can even run it there - I just can't enter text into it's fields - I suspect some sort of input method issue - perhaps even easily fixed by installing another package in scratchbox - Any ideas? Feb 10 00:48:40 One evil bastard Feb 10 00:48:45 GeneralAntilles: is he on IRC? Feb 10 00:48:48 poitsu: yes lets just randomly associate everything Feb 10 00:49:17 maybe google should get off the internet, being that it is built on a military network to start off with? Feb 10 00:49:47 you should read up on the qwest story Feb 10 00:49:58 which qwest story is this Feb 10 00:50:09 how they refused the warrantless wiretaps Feb 10 00:50:57 everything I've read seems to indicate the qt widgets should somehow just do the right thing for the platform they were built on - i;m not trying to use hildonized versions - just plain qt Feb 10 00:50:58 luke-jr: that's me Feb 10 00:51:17 crashanddie: in the event you don't allow my comment, please at least return the text to me? Feb 10 00:51:19 thanks Feb 10 00:51:33 luke-jr: interesting comment, though you said exactly what I said some people would say ;) Feb 10 00:51:43 (as far as I know) - my main guide has been http://wiki.maemo.org/Qt4_Hildon#Installing_Qt_packages_in_Scratchbox Feb 10 00:52:31 crashanddie: your argument against it is illogical though Feb 10 00:52:31 luke-jr: nha, it's published, the only ones I don't publish are spam or "omfg lol a lot to read" and "stop using latin you fucker" Feb 10 00:52:58 crashanddie: just because someone gives a homeless guy a sandwich doesn't mean you suddenly didn't pay for the one you bought at the market Feb 10 00:53:10 that's a terrible argument Feb 10 00:53:12 maybe I should have said that Feb 10 00:53:28 luke-jr: my argument was that you can download maemo freely Feb 10 00:53:37 luke-jr: you don't need to buy an N900 to get access to it Feb 10 00:53:40 and that is irrelevant Feb 10 00:53:44 and in fact, you can't Feb 10 00:53:44 no it isn't Feb 10 00:54:00 luke-jr: http://mxr.maemo.org/ Feb 10 00:54:31 crashanddie: that's Maemo? or just select parts? Feb 10 00:54:36 luke-jr: http://maemo.gitorious.org/ Feb 10 00:55:00 luke-jr: it's only using that that a chinese manufacturer released a non-nokia maemo device Feb 10 00:55:01 anyhow, even if someone *could* download Maemo freely, that doesn't change the fact that I paid for it. Feb 10 00:55:21 I never said it did, but doesn't entitle you to yell at the community Feb 10 00:55:24 crashanddie: as someone else said, it's not really Maemo any more than Mer is Feb 10 00:55:36 sure Feb 10 00:55:46 you didn't Feb 10 00:55:58 maemo is free Feb 10 00:56:04 you paid for device that runs it Feb 10 00:56:04 crashanddie: I'll definitely concede that-- it's not the community's fault. Feb 10 00:56:12 + some device specific modifications Feb 10 00:56:14 jacekowski: free != gratis Feb 10 00:56:23 jacekowski: anyhow, *someone* paid for the development of it Feb 10 00:56:30 that cost was included in the devices Feb 10 00:56:56 that is my main problem; not so much the moaning, as I clarified in the comments, but the problem that with non-technical people comes a disruptiveness of sorts, regardless if it is in complaints, or ideology Feb 10 00:56:59 well, lot of development was made on other platforms Feb 10 00:57:03 it's linux in the end Feb 10 00:57:25 jacekowski: if it was really Linux in the end, it wouldn't be a problem nearly so much Feb 10 00:57:25 i always thought dealdatabase had the right idea when it came to non technical users Feb 10 00:57:35 they created a subforum called 'the sewer' Feb 10 00:57:40 luke-jr: it's a linux Feb 10 00:57:50 and banished any idiots and their posts to it Feb 10 00:59:08 konfoo: the same idea has been bounced on tmo as well Feb 10 00:59:23 konfoo: the problem as far as I can tell it is that people are really anal about the whole "open" thingy Feb 10 00:59:30 causing a lot more trouble than good, imho Feb 10 00:59:45 crashanddie: all i can say is it helped. i spent a lot of time fielding useless messages for the tivo TY decoder in vlc Feb 10 00:59:46 people want to be in charge, want to make decisions, even if they are utterly inept to do so Feb 10 01:00:03 i don't really care if it's open free or whatever Feb 10 01:00:04 oh nod, popularity contest amongst the inept Feb 10 01:00:06 as long as it works Feb 10 01:00:25 * rokabout just wants to write some code Feb 10 01:00:43 install SDK and start writing Feb 10 01:01:03 anyways Feb 10 01:01:05 jacekowski: it's on some diverged branch of Linux 2.6.21 Feb 10 01:01:06 so in their opinion, everyone ought to be able to express their opinion, no matter how stupid or insulting it is Feb 10 01:01:07 sleep time Feb 10 01:01:17 luke-jr: well it's 2.6.28 Feb 10 01:01:21 jacekowski: N900 maybe Feb 10 01:01:30 crashanddie: development-specific threads should have zero tolerance Feb 10 01:01:30 jacekowski: I did, followed the nice qt addressbook tutorial - text fields don't work in maemo 5 scratchbox :-( Feb 10 01:01:30 I'm sure it's something simple... Feb 10 01:01:35 luke-jr: most parts of kernel are vanilia Feb 10 01:01:51 konfoo: try to explain that to anyone in Community Feb 10 01:02:04 konfoo: last time I did I was hit on with clubs Feb 10 01:02:31 any ideas? Feb 10 01:02:44 jacekowski: N8x0 is 2.6.21 and not practical to port to mainline Feb 10 01:02:44 luke-jr: and there is a lot of device specific drivers added Feb 10 01:02:44 crashanddie: hey i hear u - it's just extremely counterproductive to have to wade through for what in all intent purposes is sewage.. in order to find the 3 posts in a 200-post thread that actually are relevant to the topic Feb 10 01:03:16 luke-jr: but that would be all reall in terms of mods made to vanilia kernel Feb 10 01:03:27 i'm going to sleep Feb 10 01:03:29 jacekowski: and that's the key important things Feb 10 01:03:46 that hold N8x0 back from running (mainline/real) Linux Feb 10 01:03:56 IT IS REAL LINUX Feb 10 01:04:02 no, it's a diverged branch Feb 10 01:04:18 if it was real Linux, I could upgrade it to the latest version Feb 10 01:04:23 then do it Feb 10 01:04:29 can't. Feb 10 01:04:33 but nobody merged drivers Feb 10 01:04:40 I would need to port their 2.6.21 cruft Feb 10 01:04:43 exactly Feb 10 01:05:21 but for starters Feb 10 01:05:27 why would you need new kernel? Feb 10 01:05:46 because nothing recent supports ancient stuff like 2.6.21 anymore Feb 10 01:06:04 because 2.6.32 includes ramzswap Feb 10 01:06:05 define nothing? Feb 10 01:06:16 everything supports 2.6.21 Feb 10 01:06:40 udev Feb 10 01:06:46 does not run on 2.6.21 anymore Feb 10 01:06:54 omfg Feb 10 01:07:08 udev on a phone? Feb 10 01:07:13 ... Feb 10 01:07:16 it's not a phone Feb 10 01:07:19 it's a handheld computer Feb 10 01:07:28 I run KDE 4.3 too. Feb 10 01:07:46 besides, there is no difference between latest udev and udev supporting 2.6.21 Feb 10 01:07:54 hah Feb 10 01:07:57 iirc, kernels 2.6.28+ have fastboot patches that make booting faster Feb 10 01:07:57 explain that one Feb 10 01:08:06 jacekowski: 2.6.21 has known exploits, too ;) Feb 10 01:08:12 patched Feb 10 01:08:20 and again, ramzswap Feb 10 01:08:32 ext4? Feb 10 01:08:37 ext4 is useless on a handheld Feb 10 01:08:41 nilfs Feb 10 01:08:44 :) Feb 10 01:08:55 ramzswap is the big thing for me Feb 10 01:09:02 128 MB RAM is far less useful than 196 MB RAM Feb 10 01:09:11 merging things upstream and customizing for user experience seem to be inherently conflicting goals Feb 10 01:09:18 with these devices Feb 10 01:09:33 poitsu: what gives you that impression? Feb 10 01:09:36 ramzswap is an ugly hack Feb 10 01:09:48 jacekowski: if it were still an ugly hack, it wouldn't be in mainline Feb 10 01:10:02 regardless, it works Feb 10 01:10:07 and improves things Feb 10 01:10:11 they've added lot of ugly hacks into mainline Feb 10 01:10:23 OOM killer for example Feb 10 01:10:25 or fuse Feb 10 01:10:27 ... Feb 10 01:10:33 every OS has an OOM killer Feb 10 01:10:38 luke-jr: take for example hildon. Would it have been practical for maemo and nokia to have worked that featureset into gtk in 2005-2006? Feb 10 01:10:50 poitsu: no clue, I couldn't care less about GTK Feb 10 01:10:52 but linux oom killer is really ugly Feb 10 01:11:04 and not really Feb 10 01:11:04 poitsu: and it's not like it has to be in mainline releases the day they ship Feb 10 01:11:09 windows don't have oom killer Feb 10 01:11:14 poitsu, no, half the Hildon patches were deemed unacceptable anyway. Feb 10 01:11:31 Er, maemo-gtk Feb 10 01:11:33 windows don't have overcommit support so there is no risk of running out of memory Feb 10 01:11:33 the answer is "no" Feb 10 01:11:43 GAN900: if Nokia worked with the GTK devs at the time they were writing it, they could have figured something out I'm sure Feb 10 01:11:46 as it will not allocate more memory than it has Feb 10 01:12:08 luke-jr: you do have a unique view on many things Feb 10 01:12:41 luke-jr, they did, they didn't. Feb 10 01:12:44 and it's kernel developers fault that these drivers are not integrated into mainline Feb 10 01:12:46 s/,/;/2 Feb 10 01:13:01 jacekowski: not exactly. Feb 10 01:13:17 they integrate all kinds of crap Feb 10 01:13:18 jacekowski: one of the core busses (CBUS) will need to be completely rewritten for mainline Feb 10 01:13:32 and many other things depend on that Feb 10 01:13:45 they integrated barely working graphic acceleration Feb 10 01:13:50 because there was nothing better Feb 10 01:13:55 same goes for alsa Feb 10 01:14:01 libata Feb 10 01:14:17 and progressed it in future Feb 10 01:14:24 but it was already in mainline Feb 10 01:15:29 jacekowski: if Nokia wants to advertise running Linux, they should do the work to get support for the device into Linux. Feb 10 01:15:57 they run linux Feb 10 01:16:12 My contacts stream on Flickr is qgil, sjgadsby, timsamoff, pycage, and a more non-Maemo people with pictures of snow . . . and crashanddie with his hot weather. Feb 10 01:16:19 all user programs ( not userland ) are fully compatible Feb 10 01:16:31 you can run any linux program as long as you compile it for arm Feb 10 01:16:44 i would say thats enough to say it's running linux Feb 10 01:17:02 jacekowski: Linux is what Linus (and those he delegates older versions to) release Feb 10 01:17:19 so then there is no linux at all Feb 10 01:17:23 woo hoo! I have fedora running with wifi and xorg on N900 now :) Feb 10 01:17:40 got your X pointer worked out jebba ? Feb 10 01:17:46 every single pretending to be linux distro runs non vanilia kernel Feb 10 01:18:00 poitsu: yes. Copied over HAL files Feb 10 01:18:05 jacekowski: every single major Linux*-based* OS can run with a vanilla kernel Feb 10 01:18:19 jacekowski: there are plenty of distributiosn running kernels compiled from nonmodified sources from kernel.org Feb 10 01:18:21 congrats jebba ... youtube for the prize Feb 10 01:18:22 jacekowski: regardless of how patched their branch is, it's not required Feb 10 01:18:34 you are wrong Feb 10 01:18:34 hah Feb 10 01:19:01 there is at least one distro that's not going to run on vanilia kernel Feb 10 01:19:06 if Fedora needs their own branch now, I don't care... my point still stands Feb 10 01:19:33 it doesn't Feb 10 01:19:40 you can boot kernel.org kernels Feb 10 01:19:41 and many do Feb 10 01:19:53 why does anyone care about what you care about luke-jr? can you try to make your cares understandable to the rest of us? Feb 10 01:19:56 you can run maemo using stock kernel Feb 10 01:20:02 you can run stock kernel on nokia device Feb 10 01:20:09 jacekowski: nope Feb 10 01:20:12 you keep saying "i don't care about that". wow. Feb 10 01:20:13 however you will lack support for some devices Feb 10 01:20:54 poitsu: these are real problems Feb 10 01:21:09 and in my laptop at the moment - i need external modules for wifi, graphic and webcam, and sonypi management chip Feb 10 01:21:27 jacekowski: you can't run stock kernel on N900. You don't even get touchscreen. Feb 10 01:21:29 so it "boots" stock kernel Feb 10 01:21:30 jacekowski: your laptop probably didn't say it runs linux Feb 10 01:21:30 jacekowski: if so, your manuf shouldn't advertise supported by Linux Feb 10 01:21:54 find me one device that's fully supported by linux Feb 10 01:21:58 jacekowski: i dont think it even boots stock kernel at all. Feb 10 01:22:05 with all it's featured already builtin Feb 10 01:22:07 jacekowski: my thinkpad seems fine. Feb 10 01:22:08 jacekowski: uh, my computer at least Feb 10 01:22:13 jebba: it boots stock kernel Feb 10 01:22:17 my laptop Feb 10 01:22:32 not at the moment. booting fedora. but stock kernel works fine. Feb 10 01:22:32 jacekowski: Gentoo's branch/fork of Linux is strictly bugfixes Feb 10 01:22:33 redeeman: what graphic card you've got Feb 10 01:22:38 jacekowski: R300 Feb 10 01:22:39 so I can say with confidence that vanilla would also run Feb 10 01:22:55 i've frequently run stock kernels on my thinkpads + fedora. Feb 10 01:23:00 redeeman: there is no drivers in mainline for it Feb 10 01:23:06 jacekowski: that's not true Feb 10 01:23:13 fully working drivers Feb 10 01:23:15 jacekowski: the DRM part is in the kernel and has been for years Feb 10 01:23:22 the other stuff is obviously in mesa Feb 10 01:24:01 my other laptop has intel G965 Feb 10 01:24:29 jacekowski: except for bleeding edge, ATi cards are supported by mainline Linux+X.org+Mesa Feb 10 01:24:41 including 3D acceleration Feb 10 01:25:13 luke-jr: and udev not working on older kernels means only that linux API is really unstable Feb 10 01:25:45 3D acceleration is very poor for not that new cards Feb 10 01:25:52 jacekowski: nobody said it was stable. Feb 10 01:26:10 anyways Feb 10 01:26:13 Aijse: well, I have the best 3D accel for Linux :p Feb 10 01:26:14 i'm going to sleep Feb 10 01:26:16 Radeon X850 Feb 10 01:26:38 luke-jr: i have an X1800 or whatever its called, im not using it though Feb 10 01:26:50 luke-jr: but in the latest stuff theres quite decent support on R600 Feb 10 01:27:02 redeeman: cool; I bet it doesn't support my PC :p Feb 10 01:33:42 Packaging gurus... what should I use as a dependency if my package just requires Media Player and nothing else? Feb 10 01:34:51 mediaplayer Feb 10 01:34:55 is the name of the package Feb 10 01:35:12 version 1.1 and above, i guess Feb 10 01:35:14 ok, wasn't sure. Feb 10 01:35:22 zerojay: dpkg -l | grep mediaplayer Feb 10 01:36:34 yeah, you got it. Feb 10 02:13:20 http://images.4chan.org/b/src/1265767804150.jpg :) (worksafe) Feb 10 02:17:50 I just got my N900 and when I update the list of applications it says applications list partially updated, some catalogues unavailable, and in the details it says couldn't resolve downloads.maemo.nokia.com for any internet connection I use. Feb 10 02:17:55 how do I solve this? Feb 10 02:18:37 that was a well written question Feb 10 02:18:41 ptl, that repository could just be down. Feb 10 02:19:12 but it can't resolve the name, GeneralAntilles Feb 10 02:19:20 and I did a dns lookup here right now and it resolved Feb 10 02:19:22 hmm Feb 10 02:19:32 I've been toying with the idea of getting an N900... I pulled out my N800 out of the closest. Is the N900 a substantial improvement, software-wise? I remembered why I had stopped using the N800 in the first place- web browsing is painfully slow. People seem to review the N900 well, but that seems to be the case with the N800 as well- I'm having a hard time distinguishing between fact and wishful thinking with these reviews. Feb 10 02:19:58 RevAaron: try the emulator Feb 10 02:20:02 hmm... using py2deb.. and my package is entirely contained within the preinstall/preremove scripts.. no actual files are installed anywhere, just changes made to a database... but py2deb is bitching about there being no files defined in src. Something I'm doing wrong or should I just install a dummy file to make it happy? Feb 10 02:20:07 RevAaron: I just got my N900 and it is quite fast Feb 10 02:20:09 N900 has best-in-class web browsing. Feb 10 02:20:09 web browsing is a lot faster RevAaron Feb 10 02:20:12 ptl: very good idea! I hadn't even thought of that. :P Feb 10 02:20:12 ptl: can you try open up an xterm and run: host downloads.maemo.nokia.com Feb 10 02:20:15 RevAaron: look on youtube Feb 10 02:20:18 RevAaron: for example Feb 10 02:20:29 it's not an emulator Feb 10 02:20:36 RevAaron, the N900 is worlds better than N800. Feb 10 02:20:43 ptl: and is dns resolution ok for other stuff? eg web browsing Feb 10 02:20:45 SpeedEvil: I'll look a bit more. I'd found a lot of simpler demos, but nothing too demanding. Feb 10 02:20:47 it's a development environment that is not intended to replicate the UI of the phone Feb 10 02:20:50 doubleukay: yes Feb 10 02:21:08 I'll try doing the command, hadn't thought of that. Feb 10 02:21:16 oh Feb 10 02:21:19 I can't Feb 10 02:21:25 I am in the middle of an update right now Feb 10 02:21:32 I'll try it later... thanks Feb 10 02:21:32 hrmm Feb 10 02:21:33 a firmware update? Feb 10 02:21:47 hope yours doesn't crash and reboot 5 times like mine did! :) Feb 10 02:21:58 yikes Feb 10 02:23:13 RevAaron: there is also fennec - which is mobile firefox Feb 10 02:23:30 updating the "Maemo 5" package, so I guess it's yes Feb 10 02:23:39 SpeedEvil: is that something different than the mozilla-based browser on the more recent firmware version for the N800? Feb 10 02:23:46 RevAaron: yes. Feb 10 02:23:56 SpeedEvil: browsing wasn't too bad during the Opera days, went downhill after the switch to firefox Feb 10 02:23:59 er, mozilla. Feb 10 02:24:11 RevAaron: http://www.mozilla.com/en-GB/firefox/b/ Feb 10 02:24:12 err Feb 10 02:24:19 i'll look into it! it's been a year or so since I played with the N800, I'm a bit out of the loop. Feb 10 02:24:22 RevAaron: my 2c about the browsing. it's mostly awesome, but there are a few things left to desire. 1) links are hard to click especially if it's small things like page numbers (I come from a opera mini background where the cursor snaps to links). 2) flash ads really spoil the experience by slowing down the browser. Feb 10 02:24:41 http://www.mozilla.com/en-GB/m/ Feb 10 02:25:06 doubleukay: yeah, I could see that, esp #2. I block flash by default on desktop Firefox- I can't imagine how super-slow it can get on the N900. Feb 10 02:25:09 SpeedEvil: awesome, thanks! Feb 10 02:25:17 doubleukay: Install my adflashblock-css package. All flash is blocked by default until you click on them to activate them along with adblocking through CSS. :) Feb 10 02:25:28 zerojay: hey thanks, which one is it? Feb 10 02:25:39 I installed ABP but it doesn't seem to work :( Feb 10 02:25:41 doubleukay: adflashblock-css, it's in extras-devel. Feb 10 02:25:53 oh I haven't yet added that repo Feb 10 02:25:57 doubleukay: Yeah, it's going to replace my ABP package. It works without the guesswork. Feb 10 02:26:03 SpeedEvil: it says the N900 and N810 are supported- N800 too, just not listed? Feb 10 02:26:38 RevAaron: don't know. doubt it. Feb 10 02:26:49 ahh Feb 10 02:26:50 hrmm Feb 10 02:27:22 For example - slashdot.org - my desktop ff starts to render the first story in about 5s. Microb in about 16, and fennec in about 14 Feb 10 02:27:39 and lynx on n900 in 0.1 Feb 10 02:27:40 is fennec the same browser that comes built-in on the N900, or is it a derivative of the mozilla-based browser built-in on the N800? Feb 10 02:28:20 microb is the built in browser. Feb 10 02:28:24 gotcha. Feb 10 02:28:26 I don't know about the n800 Feb 10 02:28:31 * RevAaron goes to get his N800 and his wife's iPhone Feb 10 02:29:19 SpeedEvil: hmm you know I just remembered something.. that I should enable pipelining in microb Feb 10 02:29:30 I think that would improve performance a lot on the cell network Feb 10 02:30:05 You shouldn't ever fuck with pipelining. Feb 10 02:30:14 hm why not? Feb 10 02:30:16 This was on wifi on a 326k dsl link Feb 10 02:30:55 doubleukay: Because it's basically giving a big middle finger to the webservers you're visiting by wasting more of their RAM and connections. Feb 10 02:31:09 oh that isn't what pipelining is Feb 10 02:31:19 Max connections... Feb 10 02:31:32 pipelining != max connections Feb 10 02:31:39 I know that.. but a lot of people just refer to it as pipelining. Feb 10 02:32:11 ah ok. no worries, I understand HTTP :) Feb 10 02:33:03 * SpeedEvil needs to finish his differential caching proxy server. Feb 10 02:33:09 s/finish/start/ Feb 10 02:33:55 I believe there's some prior art you can follow.. Feb 10 02:33:57 http://www.telecoms.com/18082/android-gets-faster-apps-better-graphics-longer-battery-life /me wonders. Feb 10 02:34:05 doubleukay: not really that I've seen. Feb 10 02:34:26 doubleukay: you have what looks like a normal - say - 250M disk cache of http pages at the proxy side. Feb 10 02:34:37 This is replicated at the client side. Feb 10 02:35:29 Any pages the client requests are served against diffs between the known state of the clients disk cache, and the page. The clients cache is then updated to keep them in sync Feb 10 02:36:23 The funky part is that foo.com/baz may end up as a diff from bar.com/fish - if that turns out to be the most similar page in the cache Feb 10 02:36:45 preliminary studies seem to indicate it works. Feb 10 02:36:49 I just need to code it Feb 10 02:37:07 ah ok. yup, I don't think I've seen that before. Feb 10 02:37:32 would you be doing an optimal search, or a fuzzy one? Feb 10 02:37:39 Added benefits happen if there is a lot of latency, and you know what the client will want. Feb 10 02:37:48 doubleukay: host is not found, but with ping it returned the message "bad address 'downloads.maemo.nokia.com'" Feb 10 02:37:52 doubleukay: however, ping resolved the address for www.google.com Feb 10 02:38:15 For example - if the client always wants css - then you don't bother waiting for the client to see the css url in the page, and fetch it. Feb 10 02:38:21 fuzzy Feb 10 02:40:06 ptl: try the lookup against google dns - host downloads.maemo.nokia.com 8.8.8.8 Feb 10 02:40:31 (seeing if we can learn more about your problem) Feb 10 02:40:49 doubleukay: but there's no host utility Feb 10 02:40:59 and I just cat'ed /etc/resolv.conf... it points to localhost, 127.0.0.1 ? Feb 10 02:41:03 weird Feb 10 02:41:12 it should Feb 10 02:41:16 tehre is a local resolver Feb 10 02:41:21 oh... Feb 10 02:41:30 the local resolver must have a problem then Feb 10 02:41:35 well Feb 10 02:41:46 SpeedEvil: interesting project. do you have a blog I could follow? Feb 10 02:41:50 well Feb 10 02:42:01 since the reflash Feb 10 02:42:03 doubleukay: yes - here. Feb 10 02:42:05 :) Feb 10 02:42:09 I have a wlog Feb 10 02:42:10 getting good battery life Feb 10 02:42:11 SpeedEvil: haha ok Feb 10 02:42:12 for me on wifi, slashdot.org - desktop ff renders the first story after 3s, iPhone 3GS after 6s, N800 microb 18s, N800 fennec 14s. Feb 10 02:42:19 http://www.mauve.plus.com/weight.gif Feb 10 02:42:25 this is perhaps not interesting to many Feb 10 02:42:47 I just saw that although there's no host utility, nslookup is there Feb 10 02:42:49 good progress. Feb 10 02:43:04 and I resolved downloads.maemo.nokia.com through the google DNS server ok Feb 10 02:43:10 so it's indeed a problem in the local resolver Feb 10 02:43:21 odd Feb 10 02:43:31 ptl: but you could resolve other names with the local resolver couldn't you? Feb 10 02:43:33 took me about 8 seconds in microb Feb 10 02:43:36 ptl: do you have dhcp/... or do you do the static thing Feb 10 02:43:39 to get slashdot Feb 10 02:44:01 Kamui: more so, what is the speed difference between microb and firefox on the same device? Feb 10 02:44:01 first 3 stories and images popped up all at the same time seemingly Feb 10 02:44:09 it does feel faster, that's for sure Feb 10 02:44:14 i dont bother with fennec Feb 10 02:44:17 microb seems to render more completely Feb 10 02:44:19 MicroB is still faster than Fennec. Feb 10 02:44:19 too slow right now Feb 10 02:44:28 microb is _not_ faster than fennec Feb 10 02:44:42 microb with flash on is faster than fennec with flash disabled Feb 10 02:44:47 still can't load engadget, though. heh. at least it doesn't choke on it, max out CPU, and freeze the window Feb 10 02:44:48 how do I reboot the n900? Feb 10 02:44:50 SpeedEvil: dhcp Feb 10 02:44:58 as far as kinetic scrolling and responsiveness Feb 10 02:45:02 ptl: press power button, then 'switch off' Feb 10 02:45:05 SpeedEvil: but I programmed dhcp on my router to point to certain DNS and in my laptop it works ok Feb 10 02:45:18 That is - time to load a page completely is faster on fennec. Feb 10 02:45:36 for me at least Feb 10 02:45:43 5 seconds on engadget Feb 10 02:45:45 espeially when I kill microb Feb 10 02:45:57 using microb Feb 10 02:46:07 Kamui: what device? Feb 10 02:46:13 till i can start reading Feb 10 02:46:16 n900 Feb 10 02:46:34 ahhh, ok. sounds like a pretty big improvement, then Feb 10 02:46:43 ptl: try cat /var/run/dhcp-params.conf Feb 10 02:47:13 might be a maemo-specific file, I haven't seen it on other linux systems before Feb 10 02:47:19 u guys talking about the NI8x0? i just assumed 900 when i heard microb... Feb 10 02:47:27 probably shouldnt have Feb 10 02:47:30 the third or the last entry seems to be the dns server Feb 10 02:47:46 Kamui: I guess it's a net congestion problem partially Feb 10 02:47:57 can you see what it's set to, and try running host for maemo.downloadswhatever.com against it? Feb 10 02:47:58 Kamui: I see 12s till engadget text shows up Feb 10 02:48:08 hmm Feb 10 02:48:10 Kamui: beyond 'download iphone app' Feb 10 02:48:28 Kamui: yeah, I was asking if the N900 was usable for web browsing or not. I was toying with the idea of getting an N900, but after taking my N800 out of the closet I remembered why it went into the closet- for web browsing it's really quite painful Feb 10 02:48:36 let me see if the screencast util is working better Feb 10 02:48:57 n900 is pretty damn good Feb 10 02:50:23 with a good community too :) Feb 10 02:50:48 doubleukay: there's no such file... Feb 10 02:51:18 oh. hummm. Feb 10 02:51:31 how are you connected, over wifi or cell? Feb 10 02:51:48 doubleukay: the 770, N800, and N810 had a good community too... but it's still a mostly unusable device, at least for the basics. still fun to dink aroudn on it, but no way my N800 plus a cell phone could do the job of an iPhone or Android phone for me. at least, at this point. Feb 10 02:51:48 wifi now Feb 10 02:52:11 doubleukay: but i don't mean to make it about that, don't want to start a flamewar or irc lamobattle Feb 10 02:53:05 * ShadowJK has an n900 and still uses both n800 and n810 :) Feb 10 02:53:48 <- had a netbook instead Feb 10 02:54:09 ShadowJK: I think my N800 is good for playing around with Squeak Smalltalk, but as an internet tablet it's pretty useless. I'll prolly go back and try out one of the older ROMs w/ Opera to see if it's how I remember it. Feb 10 02:54:19 * Kamui is a netbook Feb 10 02:54:30 RevAaron, pft. Feb 10 02:54:40 RevAaron, the 770, N800 and N810 are all plenty usable. Feb 10 02:55:02 I've carried one or another everyday since 2005. Feb 10 02:55:37 ptl: oh even better. /var/run/resolv.conf.{gprs,wlan0} Feb 10 02:55:41 GeneralAntilles: for certain tasks I don't doubt. but it chugs for me now. maybe the iPhone has changed my level of expectation, or maybe the internet has gotten more complicated since I got my first maemo device in 2005. *shrug* Feb 10 02:56:03 there, that should get you moving forward troubleshooting your dns problem Feb 10 02:56:25 doubleukay: there's only resolv.conf, with the contents "nameserver 127.0.0.1" Feb 10 02:56:28 oops Feb 10 02:56:29 Interesting. Feb 10 02:56:30 I tried /etc Feb 10 02:56:34 let me see /var/run Feb 10 02:56:38 RevAaron: Most of the complicated internet shit doesn't even run on iphone. Feb 10 02:56:57 Over a faster net connection - from a pure first load time - microb and fennec are now mostly equal Feb 10 02:57:29 RevAaron, the N900 DESTROYS the iPhone for web browsing. Feb 10 02:57:34 zerojay: well, there's no flash. but there's still a lot of CSS, images, and JavaScript. anything really whacky flash-wise doesn't get along with my N800 anyway, so I avoid it. Feb 10 02:57:42 well... Feb 10 02:57:51 GeneralAntilles: I hope so! Waiting to play with a friend's N900 later this month. Feb 10 02:57:51 maybe destroy is a bit strong Feb 10 02:57:54 heh Feb 10 02:57:58 zerojay: yeah but then the interwebs rewrote itself for the iphone :P Feb 10 02:57:59 but its certainly more robust Feb 10 02:58:06 Kamui, it's not. Feb 10 02:58:10 doubleukay: no such files either. How do I pipe? I am tryin to run ls -la /var/run | less Feb 10 02:58:13 it is Feb 10 02:58:22 great browser good flash support Feb 10 02:58:25 reality distortion field coming into effect methinks Feb 10 02:58:37 but not quite as smooth and render times are a little slower Feb 10 02:58:54 all in all n900s microb is definitely better Feb 10 02:58:54 ptl: press the /^ + Sym together to pull out the symbols on-screen keyboard Feb 10 02:59:05 timeless_mbp & timeless: why the hell did you tip off Asa? Feb 10 02:59:13 um? Feb 10 02:59:21 i use google alerts Feb 10 02:59:24 you don't think he doesn't? Feb 10 02:59:28 i rarely talk to asa Feb 10 02:59:32 doubleukay: You mean they all wrote their own little apps. Feb 10 02:59:35 except my blog isn't indexed Feb 10 02:59:37 the an@l sex association Feb 10 02:59:57 doubleukay: thanks. hmm, the daemon is dnsmasq -- there is a dnsmasq.pid on /var/run **** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Feb 10 02:59:58 2010