**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Feb 10 02:59:58 2010 Feb 10 03:00:08 * Kamui is a joker in poor taste Feb 10 03:01:19 Kamui, you're hallucinating. Feb 10 03:01:28 crashanddie: well, i didn't tip him off Feb 10 03:01:29 Kamui, side-by-side 3GS to N900. N900 was faster. Feb 10 03:01:39 isn't this irc channel indexed? Feb 10 03:01:50 Indeed, it is. Feb 10 03:01:55 doubleukay: I can't change the /etc/resolv.conf file since I'm not root, isn't it? Feb 10 03:02:33 Kamui, the only time iPHone is faster is when there's a lot of Flash content. Feb 10 03:02:39 Kamui, and then for rather obvious reasons. Feb 10 03:03:17 Packaging geniuses... need help with post/preinstall scripts and py2deb if anyone is awake. Feb 10 03:03:39 ptl: yeah. I installed that root shell package to gain root.. Feb 10 03:04:05 .. which I'm not sure if you can Feb 10 03:04:48 doubleukay: I found /tmp/resolv.conf.wlan0 -- it has the nameserver I configured for it ok Feb 10 03:04:51 GeneralAntilles: yes all valid and i completely agree Feb 10 03:04:56 and even google dns as secondary dns server Feb 10 03:05:23 making the n900 better for browsing on the whole, i just dont think it KILLS the 3gs browsing experiencce Feb 10 03:05:34 totally subjective though Feb 10 03:06:11 found the problem! Feb 10 03:06:20 my primary dns server is not resolving downloads.maemo.nokia.com Feb 10 03:06:22 how lame! Feb 10 03:06:31 and it is my provider's main dns server Feb 10 03:06:40 ptl: OMG Feb 10 03:06:44 ptl: that's incredible! Feb 10 03:06:47 ptl: seriously Feb 10 03:06:49 ptl: wowq Feb 10 03:06:57 ptl: now stop using enter as punctuation! Feb 10 03:08:16 * RevAaron loves using enter as punctuation Feb 10 03:08:37 to each their own, I guess- but it always seemed very appropriate on IRC. I don't doubt it annoys the hell out of some, though. :P Feb 10 03:09:10 the Feb 10 03:09:12 worst Feb 10 03:09:14 is Feb 10 03:09:16 people Feb 10 03:09:17 who Feb 10 03:09:19 only Feb 10 03:09:21 put Feb 10 03:09:23 CCCCCCCCCOMBO BREAKER! Feb 10 03:09:24 one Feb 10 03:09:26 crashanddie: lol... ok, sorry. I was typing as I thought. Anyway, I've got a good irssi script that puts all lines in tandem in a single line, it's very nice Feb 10 03:09:27 word Feb 10 03:09:29 01:09 the | worst | is | people | who | only | put Feb 10 03:09:29 per Feb 10 03:09:31 like that Feb 10 03:09:32 line Feb 10 03:09:34 heh Feb 10 03:09:46 combo broken Feb 10 03:09:48 Proteous: that's enter as spacebar, not punctuation Feb 10 03:09:59 bah Feb 10 03:10:01 crashanddie: it's called 'compact.pl' Feb 10 03:10:02 except heh. I think that usually does belong on one line, kinda sorta per his example. Feb 10 03:10:29 ptl: does it do it inline as he did that? or did you run the script and it spat out the result to the channel just now? Feb 10 03:10:33 mm yeah that is lame :) but anyway, hard to say if it's your isp's fault or nokia/akamai's.. or a path in between.. well at least you're all set now. Feb 10 03:10:34 now it went ok! Feb 10 03:10:48 the application manager is working Feb 10 03:10:52 doubleukay: thank you very much for helping me troubleshoot it. Feb 10 03:10:54 ptl: using webchat, can't connect to IRC through work network Feb 10 03:11:13 crashanddie: that's no excuse! that's why there is SSH and SOCKS. :) Feb 10 03:11:33 RevAaron: I'm connected through webchat over ssh over vpn Feb 10 03:11:55 crashanddie: i'm connected through xchat over ssh Feb 10 03:12:58 RevAaron: the bunker I'm in is in Australia and only allows VPN to my company's specific network, my VPN endpoint is in the US, my server is in my london office, and I don't have any servers in the worldwide web considering I live in a hotel Feb 10 03:13:21 RevAaron: so yeah, that is an excuse Feb 10 03:13:43 I guess he was owned by his SSH Feb 10 03:13:48 crashanddie: that's a sad life, you want donations? Feb 10 03:14:02 ptl: I work in a bunker, you really think I need money? Feb 10 03:14:12 lol Feb 10 03:14:27 crashanddie: i'm connected through xchat over ssh... it's all about the ssh -D 9999 Feb 10 03:14:45 I guess you didn't get my explanation previously Feb 10 03:15:30 RevAaron: it's not about me connecting through webchat, it's about people sending out too much text. This isn't a democracy, and you don't get to tell me how to connect to the internet Feb 10 03:15:43 google's chromium will use gentoo's portage? they should've chosen pacman Feb 10 03:15:43 * ShadowJK rents a server in holland Feb 10 03:16:07 rent me an absinthe and we'll talk Feb 10 03:16:10 sry wrong chan Feb 10 03:16:11 ShadowJK: I'm thinking about getting a small VPS in France Feb 10 03:16:21 * ptl is an absinthe-lover in a country that doesn't allow real absinthe :( Feb 10 03:16:34 ShadowJK: but quite frankly I'd rather have one in the UK, but I can't find anything worthwhile Feb 10 03:16:50 in France, a VPS goes for about 10euros per month, with unlimited bandwidth and dedicated CPU Feb 10 03:17:21 crashanddie: um, prove it Feb 10 03:17:29 luke-jr: that statement? Feb 10 03:17:32 yes Feb 10 03:17:43 sure, hang on Feb 10 03:17:46 crashanddie: no, I understood your complaint. I don't think anyone can really justify annoying lineage- though, that really isn't "too much text." if you'd rather avoid "too much text" IRC isn't for you. Feb 10 03:18:03 heh Feb 10 03:18:23 luke-jr: http://www.ovh.com/fr/produits/rps1.xml Feb 10 03:18:46 crashanddie: I was simply trying to give you a hand, as you said that you're "you're using webchat, can't connect to IRC through work network" ... i simply offered you away around that, totally aside from whatever else was going on. Feb 10 03:19:27 RevAaron: considering I'm already connected through VPN and SSH to get to this webchat, do you honestly believe I would be using webchat if I had an alternative? Feb 10 03:19:32 crashanddie: wow, not bad Feb 10 03:19:49 too bad I don't know French :P Feb 10 03:19:59 crashanddie: maybe you actually like webchat ?? :) Feb 10 03:20:09 ahh, then atom servers. Feb 10 03:20:19 luke-jr: http://www.ovh.co.uk/products/rps1.xml Feb 10 03:21:34 crashanddie: ...well, I think that's what you're telling me- you are using webchat even though there is an alternative. if I'm following you. but obviously, what you're doing is working just fine for you. carry on. Feb 10 03:21:47 and for double the price you get a dual core athlon 1.9 Ghz with 2GB of RAM Feb 10 03:22:55 RevAaron: I think you have your vocabulary confused: whether technically feasable doesn't necessarily imply it is an alternative. Feb 10 03:24:00 crashanddie: I understand the words, but it doesn't add up. Like I said, if you're happy with what you're doing I've no interest in changing that. :) Feb 10 03:24:14 RevAaron: an alternative (implying a viable alternative) would require me to have a server with VPN outside of my corporate network, which is not the case. Hence, there is no immediate or viable alternative, even though, and I fully agree with you, it is absolutely possible, technically speaking Feb 10 03:24:30 s/VPN/SSH/ Feb 10 03:24:30 crashanddie meant: RevAaron: an alternative (implying a viable alternative) would require me to have a server with SSH outside of my corporate network, which is not the case. Hence, there is no immediate or viable alternative, even though, and I fully agree with you, it is ... Feb 10 03:25:16 yup, I completely understand. like I said, let's move on... Feb 10 03:26:57 mugen power battery can be pre-ordered now at special price and shipping march 1st Feb 10 03:28:13 mugen power battery for n900 seems kinda bulky and their picture is very noisy i can't see clearly but it seems to block the backside camera Feb 10 03:28:33 hard to tell, really. Feb 10 03:29:06 does anyone know how much improvement this battery could be over the nokia battery? Feb 10 03:30:26 Considering the fact that it's not out yet, no. Feb 10 03:32:10 2400mAh vs 1350mAh, about 80% on paper? Feb 10 03:32:27 downloading 90MB of updates for maemo now Feb 10 03:32:48 at least they could have give us a clue before before i order a 90$ item from their crappy website Feb 10 03:32:50 now that I solved the dns problem, everything is going ok... Feb 10 03:33:48 caveat emptor. Feb 10 03:35:59 hi, I asked earlier but wasn't here to see if anyone replied Feb 10 03:36:21 what's the likelihood of this http://sourceforge.net/projects/gstm/ running on an N900? Feb 10 03:38:21 fernando2k: Zero. Feb 10 03:38:25 no gnome Feb 10 03:38:48 can't it be hildonized? Feb 10 03:38:49 fernando2k: lemme try installing it into the debian chroot.. Feb 10 03:39:33 Of course - you can run anything on a n900 - for some definitions. Feb 10 03:39:44 oh? doesn't it use er... gtk or something, which maemo has? (I'm kinda new at this lol) Feb 10 03:40:01 but yeah, if the GUI doesn't work, there's no point Feb 10 03:40:29 maybe ignore me - I'm tired. Feb 10 03:40:37 and am probably alseep. Feb 10 03:40:39 :P Feb 10 03:40:51 fernando2k: you brazilian? Feb 10 03:41:11 by birth, yes, but I live in the united states Feb 10 03:41:15 how'd you guess? :P Feb 10 03:41:54 your name. I'm brazilian too and I live in a tree in Amazon. Or in Campinas, Sao Paulo, I guess. Feb 10 03:42:03 fernando2k: it does seem to run - http://home.doubleukay.com/n900/Screenshot-20100210-143834.png Feb 10 03:42:18 awesome! :o Feb 10 03:42:24 but I haven't used this program before, so I can't verify if it does what it's supposed to Feb 10 03:42:52 wow... that was quite fast Feb 10 03:42:56 What I was meaning above was it's for some things that do run - unacceptable performance wise due to other constraints. Feb 10 03:42:59 indeed lol Feb 10 03:43:23 For example - if it pulls in 87M of libraries that are only used for the program - it may 'work' - but it will cause lots of stuff to swap out every time it's run Feb 10 03:43:26 so, debian chroot eh? I'll look into that Feb 10 03:43:34 ah yeah Feb 10 03:43:40 SpeedEvil: true that.. Feb 10 03:43:54 debian chroot? don't you use scratchbox for compiling this stuff, doubleukay ? Feb 10 03:44:15 ptl: I take the path of least resistance :) Feb 10 03:44:19 you've got a chrooted debian with ARM target? Or did you compile to x86 and ran itin the emulator? Feb 10 03:44:36 there's a easy-debian-chroot app Feb 10 03:44:46 but for ARM? Feb 10 03:44:48 yes Feb 10 03:45:08 cool Feb 10 03:45:42 oh, that's the thing that requires the debian image right? yeah, think I'll pass for now then :P Feb 10 03:46:05 can I try compiling from the source? does the N900 has make and all that fun stuff? Feb 10 03:46:27 yes, it has, but you have to install from the repositories Feb 10 03:46:48 and you shouldn't really run unpackaged stuff Feb 10 03:47:15 guess not, don't want to have to reflash it in case something goes wrong... Feb 10 03:47:19 the easy-debian-chroot is quite easy, but still.. not for the faint-hearted Feb 10 03:48:27 I hosed my 2GB /home partition when it installed into it (was supposed to install into the 30GB partition but it turned out that it wasn't mounted coz I plugged it into my computer) Feb 10 03:48:28 oh well, can I er, put up a maemo brainstorm item or whatnot to ask someone to "hildonize" it or something? Feb 10 03:48:53 because I really don't want a 2gb image just to run something I can do on the terminal, with just a little more effort :P Feb 10 03:49:33 I'm still familiarizing myself with the community.. so I don't know what your next options are :) Feb 10 03:50:10 do you help developing skills? it might not be so difficult to hildonize it yourself Feb 10 03:50:15 *do you have Feb 10 03:50:34 none, haha Feb 10 03:50:52 I just got my N900 Feb 10 03:51:05 I'll try hildonizing a few apps by myself as soon as I get the grasp ofit Feb 10 03:51:11 I have already read some tutorials Feb 10 03:51:14 There are also other tools Feb 10 03:51:27 for example - the commandline-desktop applet Feb 10 03:51:29 I have an N800 and just got an N900, I kinda know maemo but kinda not at the same time :( Feb 10 03:51:41 commandline desktop? that sounds interesting Feb 10 03:51:48 which lets you do desktop widgets in a couple of lines of shell that can react to presses Feb 10 03:52:01 of course htey only do text output - but... Feb 10 03:52:23 I love the idea of that, but I still haven't found myself a use case for it after a week Feb 10 03:52:46 what's the name, I can't find it Feb 10 03:55:07 oh Feb 10 03:55:11 the app should also be optified Feb 10 03:55:27 but I guess that it is easy to automate Feb 10 03:55:37 oh, yeah, what does that mean? I see that term used a lot on talk.maemo.org and related forums Feb 10 03:56:22 I even saw a comment on an ovi store app saying it wasn't "optified" Feb 10 03:56:35 it... doesn't have anything to do with /opt right? that'd be too obvious Feb 10 03:56:45 It means that all the major files are in /opt - with only symlinks if that in / Feb 10 03:56:48 fernando2k: http://wiki.maemo.org/Opt_Problem Feb 10 03:56:52 this means that / doesn't get full Feb 10 03:56:55 oooh Feb 10 03:57:01 haha, should have thought of it :P Feb 10 03:57:26 does anyone know the historical reason behind splitting the root fs and /home ? Feb 10 03:57:49 doubleukay: speed Feb 10 03:58:23 what about the reason for having dots in front of the images documents etc folders? :P Feb 10 03:58:40 (it's annoying to use those when I mount the N900 as mass storage on os x) Feb 10 03:58:45 ok I see that now. the block device is split into the OneNAND and eMMC areas. Feb 10 03:58:56 aye Feb 10 03:59:38 doubleukay: yes, just google for unix filesystem hierarchy and you'l find the many reasons why it's this way :) Feb 10 04:00:34 I didn't think that the storage was heterogeneous since it's presented as one block device Feb 10 04:04:12 oh, just saw the desktop command line widget Feb 10 04:04:23 I guess that could work with the update when tapped option... Feb 10 04:11:19 no hdparm in repos :-/ Feb 10 04:14:00 DocScrutinizer i have one in the etch repo: ./h/hdparm/hdparm_6.9-2_armel.deb no idea if it works Feb 10 04:14:14 would be surprised Feb 10 04:14:47 well, I'll give it a try Feb 10 04:14:59 what's etch repo? Feb 10 04:15:11 I got your standard mirror repos Feb 10 04:19:34 wtf would you do with hdparm on n900... Feb 10 04:19:42 XD Feb 10 04:19:50 anyone here happen to know how much SoCs usually cost? Feb 10 04:19:53 just by themselves Feb 10 04:20:15 digikey might help Feb 10 04:20:29 you wo't find the top notch ones Feb 10 04:20:36 ShadowJK: its not the "what" but because "you can" Feb 10 04:20:47 Anyone with py2deb experience can help me out with getting pre/post install scripts working? Feb 10 04:21:15 luke-jr: last one I saw was an arduino kit being sold for NZD80. comes with board, lcd, buncha sensors. Feb 10 04:21:22 sulx, I didn't know memory cards did anything useful to the type of scsi/ata commands hdparm sends :P Feb 10 04:21:30 unless I'm misunderstanding what a SoC is.. Feb 10 04:21:34 doubleukay: I mean just the SoC; no board Feb 10 04:21:46 ShadowJK: I'd like to see what hdparm -tT would prit Feb 10 04:21:50 luke-jr, I think you can source the OMAP3 for about $45. Feb 10 04:21:53 ShadowJK: maybe to test speed? which doesn't tell anything? =) Feb 10 04:21:55 print Feb 10 04:21:57 luke-jr, for batches of 1000. Feb 10 04:22:11 (if I'm recalling correctly) Feb 10 04:22:52 hm Feb 10 04:23:02 DocScrutinizer the debian etch rebuild: http://obra.freemoe.org/obra.install Feb 10 04:23:12 luke-jr, OMAP3530DCBB $32 each for orders of 1000. OMAP3530DCUS72 $50.05 for orders of 1000 Feb 10 04:23:33 Damn I'm a badass. Feb 10 04:23:38 jebba: thaks Feb 10 04:23:40 sulx, that speed is particulary useless for memory cards :) Feb 10 04:23:47 You want iozone or bonnie Feb 10 04:23:47 any idea what people usually do when they have a good idea that would be expensive to put into practice? :P Feb 10 04:24:02 luke-jr, usually? give up. Feb 10 04:24:10 XD Feb 10 04:24:35 ShadowJK: thats what I said...;) Feb 10 04:24:44 :) Feb 10 04:24:50 not clearly but still Feb 10 04:26:36 I was hoping for "talk to _____; they'll buy the idea!" :p Feb 10 04:27:04 <.< Feb 10 04:30:54 'updating Maemo 5'... why is my heart beating so fast? Feb 10 04:31:05 oh the 72 at the end means 720MHz model Feb 10 04:32:05 ShadowJK: I was actually thinking the QSD8672 :P Feb 10 04:32:19 but I'll just assume they need to be somewhat competitive vs TI Feb 10 04:32:21 :p Feb 10 04:32:27 ptl, you got it? Feb 10 04:33:04 and the D after the number means revision D Feb 10 04:33:10 * ShadowJK wonders what revision is in n900 Feb 10 04:33:18 dracflamloc: sure Feb 10 04:33:23 uh, not that it's the same number even... Feb 10 04:33:34 yup, hdparm is't the tool for that type of storage Feb 10 04:34:06 weren't you the one who was waiting on your n900 to arrive? Feb 10 04:34:22 oh Feb 10 04:34:24 yesss Feb 10 04:34:26 it arrived today Feb 10 04:34:28 I'm so happy Feb 10 04:34:54 now I am updating its OS to start installing apps Feb 10 04:34:55 ShadowJK, ES3.x, I believe. Feb 10 04:35:06 ShadowJK, ES2.x still had the NEON bug. Feb 10 04:35:16 first one will be bounce evolution Feb 10 04:35:21 then, duke nukem 3d Feb 10 04:35:21 haha Feb 10 04:35:27 HAIL TO THE KING, BABY Feb 10 04:36:02 you bet :P you know how do I map the accelerometer to dn3d keys? Feb 10 04:36:21 dunno, havent tried playing it yet Feb 10 04:37:42 hey Feb 10 04:37:58 hi Feb 10 04:38:23 do we have skype with vid chat? Feb 10 04:38:28 or mms yet? Feb 10 04:38:40 See fMMS. Feb 10 04:39:03 btw Feb 10 04:39:08 about video chat Feb 10 04:39:21 mms is a bit weak atm Feb 10 04:39:21 has anyone been able to use 3G videoconference with the N900? Feb 10 04:39:30 video chat through xmpp works Feb 10 04:39:42 Kamui: what client? Feb 10 04:39:46 it doesn't have 3g videocalls Feb 10 04:39:46 not through skype iirc Feb 10 04:39:55 and it doesn't have 3g videosharing or 3g picture sharing either Feb 10 04:39:59 Sargun_Screen: built in Feb 10 04:40:05 btw is it just me, or is the front camera really noisy? Feb 10 04:40:11 it does have, what else would be the secondary camera for? Feb 10 04:40:18 http://blog.frals.se/2010/02/10/ui-improvements-in-fmms/ Feb 10 04:40:21 how to switch to front camera? Feb 10 04:40:36 /dev/video0 is front Feb 10 04:40:39 1 is rear Feb 10 04:40:46 There's no included software that uses the front webcam Feb 10 04:40:58 true Feb 10 04:41:08 mirror or mplayer can be used Feb 10 04:41:17 unless that xmpp video chat does it Feb 10 04:41:21 and conversations extra protocols for vid chat Feb 10 04:41:27 this is the kind of things that should rely on hardware only Feb 10 04:41:30 xmpp works Feb 10 04:41:51 no 3g videocall in this version of the firmware Feb 10 04:42:02 it would never be hardware only anyway Feb 10 04:42:05 switching between cameras should be enabled by a switch button on the n900 and not require software Feb 10 04:42:15 foolish notion Feb 10 04:42:23 uhsf: what if you want to use both?! Feb 10 04:42:24 both cameras are active always Feb 10 04:42:38 you can view both sources at the dame time Feb 10 04:42:46 it wuld be dumb but can be done Feb 10 04:42:50 uhsf, that's extremely hard to implement :) Feb 10 04:42:54 it needs software support Feb 10 04:43:04 Kamui: i read you cant use them at same time Feb 10 04:43:10 as they share same bus.. Feb 10 04:43:15 and a hardware switch to change cameras is foolish. Feb 10 04:43:23 could be right iffreq Feb 10 04:43:28 ive never tried Feb 10 04:43:42 but there is no software to enable it so it's useless anyway. better be hardware Feb 10 04:43:45 associate them with the normal vid 4 lin functionality Feb 10 04:44:03 uhsf: i told you how already Feb 10 04:44:05 and im not worried about front cameras quality, im quite sure its ment to run as postcard sized pic as inmost chat/voice chats Feb 10 04:44:11 nand i told you what apps use it now Feb 10 04:44:29 gn now -> Feb 10 04:44:34 http://www.forum.nokia.com/Tools_Docs_and_Code/deviceComparison.xhtml?dev=[N900] <- Add something like N97 mini and you'll notice that N97 had video call listed but N900 does not :) Feb 10 04:44:37 in a few generations, all our switches/buttons will be software definable :P Feb 10 04:45:00 (in the Multimedia section) Feb 10 04:45:25 Both cameras cannot be used at once Feb 10 04:45:25 and be broken on every update and need fixing Feb 10 04:45:39 SpeedEvil: ?! Feb 10 04:45:46 /dev/video0 and /dev/video1 - the cameras are connected to the same physical bus Feb 10 04:45:59 one is turned off when the other is turned on. There is only one camera bus Feb 10 04:46:01 ifreq corrected me already Feb 10 04:46:04 same video iterface at SoC Feb 10 04:46:08 ah - mised that Feb 10 04:46:20 its golden :) Feb 10 04:46:51 damnnnn, some rubbish under my "n" Feb 10 04:48:23 it's pretty trivial for software to use the other camera anyway Feb 10 04:48:36 just open /dev/video0 instead of /dev/video1.. or other way around ;) Feb 10 04:56:34 where do I download bounce evolution from? Feb 10 05:01:03 found it Feb 10 05:25:17 this is weird. I can't find duke3d. Where is it? Feb 10 05:27:09 extras-devel Feb 10 05:33:30 Hey got an n900 here, battery went flat and phone shutoff..after I got a wall charger to charge battery seperate from phone, it turns on, displays "NOKIA" screen, then the display scrambles with horizontal lines and that's about it..led stays on and lcd backlight stays on..appears dead at this point Feb 10 05:34:23 prepared to send it back tomorrow, anybody got anything I could try before that? Feb 10 05:36:01 that part is totally closed. Who knows what's going on at those stages. Feb 10 05:38:13 how do I do in vi? Feb 10 05:38:21 found it Feb 10 05:38:23 lol Feb 10 05:39:11 what was it? Feb 10 05:41:19 bkjoe: I would try flashing it Feb 10 05:43:22 Proteous: when I attach it to a PC (win7) I get constant device found/unrecognized errors Feb 10 05:43:45 shouldn't matter for flashing Feb 10 05:43:52 just follow the instructions Feb 10 05:44:06 usually the phone will get stuck in a reboot loop Feb 10 05:44:31 hmm okay..got a good link with the procedure? Feb 10 05:45:35 would be appreciated Feb 10 05:45:42 http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware#N900:_Vista_.26_7_.2864bit.29 Feb 10 05:46:07 er Feb 10 05:46:09 http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware#N900:_XP_.28SP3.29_.2F_Vista_.28SP2.29_.2F_Windows_7_32-bit Feb 10 05:46:30 depends if you are running 32 or 64 bit windows Feb 10 05:47:11 64bit on this laptop. Thanks. will check it and report what happens Feb 10 05:59:48 duke nukem 3D is saying "d" to both accelerometer right and accelerometer down, how should I tell it otherwise? Feb 10 06:08:14 mooooooooooo Feb 10 06:10:36 cow Feb 10 06:11:16 bah Feb 10 06:11:47 slow ftp zzz Feb 10 06:13:08 "Please donÁ Feb 10 06:13:29 "Please dont rewrite softwares (that are) written in .NET" Feb 10 06:13:48 * RST38h won't, no problem =) Feb 10 06:17:11 weird... why should someone writing something in .net prevent someone else from writing similar software on a decent platform, if the idea was good enough to deserve it? Feb 10 06:17:45 "People who know me also know that I think those anti-.NET people are disruptive ignorable people. I also actively and willingly ignore them (and they should know this). IÁ Feb 10 06:17:56 villager: see above Feb 10 06:19:58 well, if he ignores them, then that's all good... by definition he won't try to stop anyone he's ignoring, so that shouldn't be a problem... Feb 10 06:21:21 * microlith throttles busybox Feb 10 06:22:06 de Icaza getting riled up again? Feb 10 06:22:21 I'm pretty sure I'd by far prefer it if a .net programmer ignores the rest of the world better than if he does not, but he shouldn't stop the rest of the world from doing real work Feb 10 06:23:50 microlith: No, the van Hoof guy whom we should all thank for Modest and Tracker Feb 10 06:23:59 * RST38h laughs diabolically Feb 10 06:24:38 o_O Feb 10 06:27:36 hrm...suitable device not found Feb 10 06:27:44 I guess it's like those software patents... you can't make an improved version of anything just because someone else had the idea first Feb 10 06:28:03 meanwhile the phone sits there with horizontal lines across the screen Feb 10 06:28:35 villager: no, he just really loves .NET :) Feb 10 06:28:49 I've got no problem with .NET, on windows at least Feb 10 06:29:06 but the complaints against mono are valid Feb 10 06:29:36 * RST38h treats .NET apps the same way he always treated VB apps Feb 10 06:29:46 I.e. removes them immediately Feb 10 06:29:50 hhe Feb 10 06:30:06 it's actually the least painful way to develop software on windows Feb 10 06:30:17 More or less, yes Feb 10 06:30:21 True Feb 10 06:30:35 Same as VB before it, actually Feb 10 06:30:51 well, before it the most painless way was Delphi :) Feb 10 06:31:13 Nah, Delphi fails once you have to deal with COM Feb 10 06:31:40 I've got problems with .net on windows, on my previous laptop the .net runtime thingy had serious issues and it was impossible to install the service pack, the installer for it always crashed Feb 10 06:32:17 it's also a real mess in any case Feb 10 06:32:38 well, .NET runtimee is messed up on at least one of my computers Feb 10 06:32:51 Dunno if removing and reinstalling would fix it, never tried it Feb 10 06:33:05 it should actually. Feb 10 06:33:06 I think I tried, but can't remember Feb 10 06:33:45 if I didn't, it would have been because it was near impossible or something Feb 10 06:37:29 OMG maemo.nokia.com designers went nuts. Feb 10 06:38:26 RST38h, something new? Feb 10 06:38:36 General: Check the opening page image Feb 10 06:38:55 RST38h, the laser penguins? Feb 10 06:38:59 That's way old Feb 10 06:39:03 yep. Feb 10 06:39:09 * RST38h has not been checking lately Feb 10 06:39:17 Like, November old. Feb 10 06:51:07 Morning, all Feb 10 06:51:56 hrw|gone: If Perl's removed, Catorise breaking will be the least of your problems ;-) Feb 10 07:04:38 Uptime 9 days. Device becomes sluggish. Reboot. Feb 10 07:05:44 morning Feb 10 07:05:49 * RST38h is gonna disable POP3 account this time, to check if it causes the performance degradation at >6 days uptime Feb 10 07:06:15 morning, konttori Feb 10 07:06:24 * thresh waves Feb 10 07:06:41 konttori: since 51.1, the device becomes unlocked when you plug it into USB charger or just data Feb 10 07:07:09 konttori: Apparently, someone shoddily patched the "device sometimes refuses to charge" bug this way =( Feb 10 07:07:44 are you talking about the device lock (so, the 5 number entry), and then plugging to usb? Feb 10 07:07:59 device lock has quite many issues. Feb 10 07:08:23 target is to really fix those for the after pr1.2 release, but possibly some already for pr1.2. Feb 10 07:08:31 konttori: I lock with the sliding switch. Then plug into USB charger (Nokia one). Device becomes unlocked. Feb 10 07:09:05 konttori: Pretty annoying, given that I leave it this way for a night, in a pouch, where it starts doing all kinds of things accidentally :) Feb 10 07:09:42 Anyways bug #8151 and bug #8890 Feb 10 07:09:44 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8151 Connecting powered USB cable always turns on screen Feb 10 07:09:45 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8890 Device becomes unlocked when plugged into charger Feb 10 07:09:45 * RST38h ==> work Feb 10 07:10:15 did anyone else notice, that the camera captures videos with 1000 fps, even though it does not really record that much frames? Feb 10 07:11:15 Run outta memory pretty quickly? Feb 10 07:11:45 no, trying to motion-track a video Feb 10 07:12:18 it tracks every single frame Feb 10 07:12:38 now imagine the difference it takes to track 30fps footage and 1000fps footage >_> Feb 10 07:12:56 i wondere'd why it's slow as fuck, then i noticed the framerate Feb 10 07:15:52 what's up with the gtk-update-icon-cache? it is an empty script.. how should I update the cache in postinst then? Feb 10 07:16:11 fragment: not used anymore Feb 10 07:16:18 null-op Feb 10 07:16:51 Stskeeps: what should be used instead? I'm installing my application and the icon is a placeholder, until I reboot Feb 10 07:17:18 fragment: report it as a bug Feb 10 07:17:54 fragment: i've noticed that behaviour with several other apps i installed (from ovi store, maemo exras, etc) Feb 10 07:18:32 Stskeeps: so it should use the new icon instantly without calling anything in postinst? Feb 10 07:21:01 fragment: it doesn't it seems and hence it's a bug Feb 10 07:21:37 Stskeeps: ok thanks Feb 10 07:27:09 sar3th: wow! waiting for slo-mo video capture software to arrive, then! \o/ :) Feb 10 07:27:30 lol Wolfie Feb 10 07:27:44 no, seriously though. Feb 10 07:28:02 i don't think it /really/ records at 1000fps Feb 10 07:28:05 that would be a great app, if the video quality is decent, and not some weird interpolated stuff Feb 10 07:28:14 ah, was afraid of that. Care to check? ;) Feb 10 07:28:26 lol np, will do Feb 10 07:28:30 nice! Feb 10 07:29:44 RST38h: oh, that lock, so, screen lock. That's a feature. Feb 10 07:29:57 okay, recorded a video with my hand moving quickly through the frame..checking now Feb 10 07:30:00 when you plugin to usb, it shows that do you want mass storage or pc suite Feb 10 07:30:12 and that needs to unlock the screen, then turn it on and show the choice. Feb 10 07:30:18 it's pretty obvious. Feb 10 07:30:28 what's your problem with that? Feb 10 07:31:17 oh, when plugged to charger? that's not right. Feb 10 07:31:19 lemme see. Feb 10 07:31:21 Wolfie: okay, huge wtf Feb 10 07:31:29 Wolfie: this video now has 25fps Feb 10 07:31:36 sar3th: o_O Feb 10 07:32:00 my thought exactly Feb 10 07:32:51 i think i'll leave you to it, then ;) Feb 10 07:33:23 yeah, i'll just re-recod the video i think Feb 10 07:33:39 i wouldn't be surprised that if you manage to reproduce that 1000fps, you either get 33 black/scrambled frames between each recorded frame, or each 30fps frame consists of 33 overlaid striped frames Feb 10 07:34:31 depends naturally when the CCD/CMOS flushes the image to some buffer Feb 10 07:34:36 hm dunno Feb 10 07:34:37 when/how Feb 10 07:34:43 i just looked at all my recorded videos Feb 10 07:34:51 3 of 4 have 1000 fpc Feb 10 07:34:53 *fps Feb 10 07:39:23 ooh i hate this usb problem =_= Feb 10 07:39:34 RST38h: I have commented to internal and external version of the bug, but I fear it won't make it in time for pr1.2 release. Feb 10 07:39:48 Wolfie: managed to get 1000fps again... Feb 10 07:40:37 sounds weird, such haphazard behavior. Feb 10 07:40:41 it seems like it's connected to the video's length, as my 25fps vid was /very/ short Feb 10 07:40:50 we have too many internal bugs in the system software side, that are not fixed, and we are nearing the time to start freezing the pr1.2 release. (which, by the way, to anybody interested won't mean pr1.2 would come any time soon, just that we are not integrating bug fixes like these anymore - only more serious issues) Feb 10 07:41:32 konttori: sounds great Feb 10 07:41:47 related to that, we integrated yesterday NEON optimizations to libjpeg, thanks to serge. Improves jpeg encode and decode 2x. Feb 10 07:42:06 * konttori is psyched out about that one. Feb 10 07:42:27 that's cool Feb 10 07:42:44 now 'photos' is pretty useless when you have thousands of those on a device Feb 10 07:42:47 konttori: what practical (user noticeable) benefits would that gain? Feb 10 07:43:11 camera and album software work faster? Feb 10 07:43:28 image viewer speed improvements, thumbnailer speed improvements for sure, possibly also browser would be faster. Feb 10 07:43:51 but I wasn't able to confirm that does it use platform libjpeg or internal jpeg. Feb 10 07:44:45 right. faster is always faster, nevertheless! Feb 10 07:46:53 Wolfie: it seems ALL videos >2s are at 1000fps Feb 10 07:47:32 sar3th: okay. Have you already had the chance to look at how those frames look like? Feb 10 07:49:17 konttori: since you're connected, can you comment on why n900 doesn't have built-in MMS-support? I mean, it just makes me wonder a bit, since fMMS seems to get stuff working pretty well pretty quickly, and that's an external project (i assume) Feb 10 07:49:26 ...or even hazard a guess? Feb 10 07:49:26 Wolfie: in AE, it seems that one frame is captured, then repeated 207 times before the next frame is captured Feb 10 07:50:41 hm, right Feb 10 07:51:44 wait, 207 times? that doesn't multiply to 1000 in any neat way... Feb 10 07:51:59 that'd be 4.83fps... Feb 10 07:52:21 are the rest then interpolated? :o Feb 10 07:53:26 Any chance of working Ogg album art support any time soon? Feb 10 07:53:48 Be that either respecting cover.jpg in the directory even if the directory isn't 100% mp3's... or just showing the album art in the Ogg Comments Feb 10 07:54:03 Lantizia: I'm quite busy for rest of the month. After that I'm hoping to get a new release with the all the patches I've got Feb 10 07:54:22 it seems the 207 frames were just random, i'll check with premiere to make sure Feb 10 07:54:24 kulve: so which of those methods have been implemented in the patches? Feb 10 07:55:00 Wolfie: original decision was to not to include MMS, and then later, it seemed like too big certificaton effort to take on - also, there wasn't enough pressure to have it. Feb 10 07:55:19 Lantizia: See bug #7413: http://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7413 Feb 10 07:55:19 let's face it, the other sharing options are much more useful. Feb 10 07:55:21 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7413 Cover art not shown for Ogg Vorbis files Feb 10 07:55:22 Bug 7413: Cover art not shown for Ogg Vorbis files Feb 10 07:55:52 e.g. email sharing of an image - > you can send an image with quality that the other end can actually understand what the image portrays. Feb 10 07:56:22 kulve: oh I've already seen that - I just want to know if the patches you have include both support for embedded and cover.jpg Feb 10 07:56:56 konttori: I've created a rough implementation for command line sharing plugin and a irssi script. Now I can share images to my www-server and get the URL with meta info to IRC :) Feb 10 07:57:31 Lantizia: I think that talks about "non-embedded covers" Feb 10 07:57:56 kulve: sorry just noticed the newer John Steele Scott patch Feb 10 07:58:19 okay premiere is too stupid, it drops frames automatically Feb 10 07:58:45 maybe it's just adobe's fault, their apps not properly supporting mp4 videos Feb 10 07:58:47 kulve: ah, great. the fmms guy was waiting for the command line plugin to enable the MMS as sharing option. Feb 10 07:58:50 kulve: so theoretically the cover art that songbird 1.4 can embded in my Ogg files... the Nokia media player will show? :) and time frame for these patches to go into some firmware? Feb 10 07:58:50 konttori: sure, i'm not exactly pining for MMS, but it seemed a bit weird. Although, now that you said it, I'd remember that fMMS doesn't follow the spec 100%, so that explains it Feb 10 07:59:12 spec is immense. Feb 10 07:59:14 konttori: https://garage.maemo.org/projects/sharing-cli Feb 10 07:59:21 kulve: great! Feb 10 07:59:22 konttori: but that's missing quite a lot error handling et.c Feb 10 07:59:34 quite a lot of typos today again.. Feb 10 07:59:42 lol, so business as usual Feb 10 07:59:57 patches are of course welcome :) Feb 10 08:00:10 Wolfie: you happen to know any other program i can check the videos with? Feb 10 08:00:31 sar3th: on the phone? sorry, no Feb 10 08:01:15 Wolfie: nah, on windows or linux Feb 10 08:01:42 X-Fade: problems with the repos? http://maemo.org/packages/view/fmms/ has 0.3.3 but repos still doesnt have it 12hrs later Feb 10 08:02:05 sar3th: I'm not that knowledgeable with video, but have you checked the VLC movie editor? is it released already? Feb 10 08:02:10 can't remember the name... Feb 10 08:02:32 Wolfie: it follows the spec now... from what Ive gathered anyway, I might have overlooked something :P Feb 10 08:02:50 frals: nice! Feb 10 08:02:52 Wolfie: i think it was released recently, i'll take a look :) Feb 10 08:03:37 frals: I haven't installed it yet, but is it in such a shape that I (i.e. someone who knows nothing about how MMS works technically) could get it set up with little effort? Feb 10 08:03:58 "VLMC will be available very soon in a pre-release version for Linux, Windows and Mac, stay tuned !" Feb 10 08:04:07 uh, little effort.. depends if you read the wikipage or not (and if your operator settings are there) I guess Feb 10 08:04:20 :( Feb 10 08:04:33 im biased as im the dev, most things regarding the application is little effort for me :D Feb 10 08:07:52 achipa = atilla77 or how was it? Feb 10 08:08:06 Stskeeps: that's me Feb 10 08:08:18 achipa: what Qt version, out of curiousity? Feb 10 08:08:31 (i'm not really the one deciding what goes in and what does not, but still interested) Feb 10 08:08:38 4.5.2 IIRC Feb 10 08:08:45 (might have some 4.5.3 bits) Feb 10 08:08:55 :nod: Feb 10 08:09:22 4.6 is not impossible either, but we're completely on our own with that so it might be a bigger bite Feb 10 08:09:47 and if we have 4.5.x solved, updating to 4.6 can be tackled later Feb 10 08:09:53 :nod: Feb 10 08:10:10 i like the SD image idea, even though a 'grow' image could be interesting Feb 10 08:10:15 but not sure if kernel allows for it Feb 10 08:11:45 the only question is if we can resize on the fly, reboot would be okay regardless of what the kernel can(not) do Feb 10 08:12:32 well, you can always do a shutdown, "repartition/resize" at bootup Feb 10 08:12:39 exactly Feb 10 08:13:19 i've really lost track of how many active n8x0 developers there are these days Feb 10 08:13:48 the "300" stunt really cut down in the amount of people Feb 10 08:14:09 if talking about it on SSU level, I'd even consider the image to be mounted as /opt (hint) Feb 10 08:14:35 yeah, that was a win some, lose some Feb 10 08:15:04 we'll see in two months how many ex-loaners will return to the fold :) Feb 10 08:15:21 probably addicted at that point Feb 10 08:15:23 "first one is free" Feb 10 08:16:18 I still like to run my Qt stuff on it, tho, mostly because of the bigger screen and extra buttons Feb 10 08:16:28 i can also help with some low level things now as well now, since i have serial access to my n810 now Feb 10 08:16:34 (but technically that's a double addiction, to both N8x0 and N900 :) ) Feb 10 08:17:04 great Feb 10 08:17:33 even though my primary contribution lately has been the whole GLES drivers SNAFU Feb 10 08:18:39 apropos SNAFU, is it me or is extras slightly tilted ? (at least some packages) Feb 10 08:19:35 I have a very bad case of version mixitis across extras and extras-testing Feb 10 08:21:07 with some tracks of someone trying to clean the mess :) Feb 10 08:21:28 no idea, it's not my job :) Feb 10 08:22:35 * achipa goes back to poking Niels :) Feb 10 08:31:42 aaand yes, it's the exact issue I was suggesting a few months back - someone depending on my packages promoted to testing while I was also in testing quarantine so now half of my packages have one version, and half another.... Feb 10 08:32:28 Wolfie: building vlmc on windows = pain :( Feb 10 08:32:34 at least using msvc Feb 10 08:42:17 Woo! KDE plugs N900! :D http://www.kde.org/announcements/4.4/ Feb 10 08:43:15 where does it say that it works on n900? Feb 10 08:44:32 www.search2.net Feb 10 08:45:54 * Stskeeps dreamt last night he smashed up his n900 Feb 10 08:45:56 horrid dream Feb 10 08:46:17 Stskeeps, but it's safe now..? right? Feb 10 08:47:02 jacekowski, did you mean the kde thing? just look at the video on that page. Feb 10 08:47:22 mece: seems so Feb 10 08:47:35 Stskeeps: he, i dreamt my brother borrowed mine and ruined the screen Feb 10 08:47:54 thank god it was just a dream :p Feb 10 08:53:59 why do my phone tell me i dont have enough free space in /var/cache/apt/archive? Feb 10 08:54:16 because it's full Feb 10 08:54:22 well duh =) Feb 10 08:54:28 but i have a clean phone Feb 10 08:54:33 i have like 3 apps installed =) Feb 10 08:54:44 i just installed supertux and went for wormux Feb 10 08:54:52 i did apt-get clean Feb 10 08:54:54 well..your phone disagrees Feb 10 08:55:35 what does df -h say? Feb 10 08:55:45 libben: you shouldn't use apt if you don't know how to divert it's cache Feb 10 08:55:50 im looking at that now Feb 10 08:56:16 apt temporarely downloads the whole thing there, so if you dl for example openarena with apt, it's not going to work unless you move apt-cache Feb 10 08:57:08 yeah i know Feb 10 08:57:08 http://mer-project.blogspot.com/2010/02/mapping-openness-of-maemo-50-pr11-and.html - My openness report, finally out Feb 10 08:57:18 i taught apt-get clean would clear my cache folder Feb 10 08:59:02 libben, well what did df -h say? Feb 10 09:01:40 mece: im not sure for what to look for in df -h cause the /var aint mapped. but the / har 52 mb free... and i need over 90 mb. so ill guess i need to clean house Feb 10 09:01:56 but why aint apt-get clean doing that? Feb 10 09:02:39 great stuff Stskeeps :) Feb 10 09:05:54 Mourning all Feb 10 09:06:29 morn wazd Feb 10 09:06:41 libben, what do you need 90mb for? Feb 10 09:07:03 libben I don't think it's possible to get 90 mb free rootfs Feb 10 09:07:09 Stskeeps: sorry, missed your message yesterday, no, I don't have html yet :( Feb 10 09:07:48 wazd: k - i sent it out now anyway, so we'll freshen it up when we have time Feb 10 09:08:03 it won't be the last openness report so Feb 10 09:10:51 Ah, oke Feb 10 09:12:34 Stskeeps, you tweet! Who knew? Feb 10 09:16:21 Stskeeps: cure yourself! Feb 10 09:17:09 lol Feb 10 09:20:08 morning Feb 10 09:20:23 someone remember which automake/autoconf is used in maemo sdk? Feb 10 09:20:32 Moaning hrw :) Feb 10 09:24:36 mourning wazd hrw Feb 10 09:24:49 Rst38h: heya Feb 10 09:25:21 what are you mourning? :-( Feb 10 09:25:34 life? Feb 10 09:25:40 :-( Feb 10 09:25:58 pekuja, why so serious? ;) Feb 10 09:26:14 Rst38h: have you seen the news bout epic battleship: the movie?)) Feb 10 09:26:41 wazd: not yet, url? =) Feb 10 09:26:51 mece: I'm mourning life :-( Feb 10 09:27:03 rst38h: somewhere on the lenta.ru Feb 10 09:27:08 a'ok Feb 10 09:27:41 mece: wormux needs over 70 mb i think Feb 10 09:27:46 Rst38h: I'm still waiting for Tic-tac-toe: the judgement day :D Feb 10 09:27:51 pekuja, perhas some robot-pirates-vs-dinosaur-riding-zombie-ninjas apocalypse will cheer you up: robot-pirates-vs-dinosaur-riding-zombie-ninjas apocalypse Feb 10 09:27:53 thats why i cant use apt-get install with it Feb 10 09:27:59 getting it from app manager instead Feb 10 09:27:59 libben is it not optified? Feb 10 09:28:27 libben, just move apt cache folder to opt and symlink it. Feb 10 09:28:38 wazd: Not seeing it Feb 10 09:28:45 * Stskeeps waits for planet to pick up his blog pots Feb 10 09:28:48 st Feb 10 09:28:50 pekuja: http://www.cad-comic.com/cad/20100210 Feb 10 09:28:56 * RST38h , personally, is waiting for Hyperion the movie =) Feb 10 09:28:58 * mece forgot to paste the link Feb 10 09:28:59 mece: hmm, that's tough Feb 10 09:28:59 mece: im taking it from app manager instead Feb 10 09:29:06 libben, ok. Feb 10 09:29:13 Rst38h: I'm at the army dep now Feb 10 09:29:14 im not that comfortable with symlinking and so on Feb 10 09:29:19 (all the time being aware that they will most likely ruin it anyway) Feb 10 09:29:24 wazd: *again*? Feb 10 09:29:29 ive done it before... but im not that kind of superuser. Feb 10 09:29:48 ninjas are awesome, but I have to think zombification will make them weaker... but then they have dinosaurs Feb 10 09:29:56 rst38h: yep, last time I hope :D Feb 10 09:30:32 pekuja, yeah, without dinosaurs the robot-pirates would have the upper hand Feb 10 09:30:36 wazd: well, actually, speaking of battleship the movie etc, there is Battle Royale and Battle Royale II. Don't you think these qualify into the genre? =) Feb 10 09:30:39 but ill take it that apt-get clean still cleans out the cache folder? Feb 10 09:30:47 libben, yes it does. Feb 10 09:31:08 someone should write a deb file for getting apt-cache moved to opt instead Feb 10 09:31:12 Rst38h: maybe :) Feb 10 09:31:20 so noobs just can hook it without being leet =) Feb 10 09:31:48 Rst38h: and Universal want to moviefy Monopoly btw Feb 10 09:31:58 WTF? freeing up rootfs space suggests dist-upgrade. That's just very wrong! Feb 10 09:32:17 wazd: who's going to play Shoe? Feb 10 09:33:04 Pekuja: shoe, hat, dog and a car are fighting each other to get control over the city Feb 10 09:33:29 Noire included :D Feb 10 09:33:50 lol Feb 10 09:34:06 * timeless_mbp grumbles Feb 10 09:34:21 can someone explain to me how to get a vpnc that supports ssl? :) Feb 10 09:34:26 been hearing a lot of grumbling from you lately timeless_mbp Feb 10 09:34:40 mece: oh, i grumble semi regularly :) Feb 10 09:35:04 :) Feb 10 09:35:11 * lupine_86 is wondering which video format and dimensions will get him acceptable watchability on the N900 Feb 10 09:35:13 but you should use /me Feb 10 09:35:28 my Hellsing MKVs just don't seem to play smoothly Feb 10 09:35:32 lupine_86: there's a project for that Feb 10 09:35:39 something like video converter Feb 10 09:35:44 Hellsingi Feb 10 09:35:57 well, ideally I'd not need to convert anything ;), but I appreciate the CPU is fairly limited Feb 10 09:36:03 lupine_86, scene xvid format works fine for me. dunno what they use though. Feb 10 09:36:28 600MHz? Feb 10 09:36:31 * lupine_86 has had to resort to mplayer since the various frontends have all ripped out support for subtitles(!) and alternative audio tracks(!!) Feb 10 09:36:34 mm Feb 10 09:36:36 that's more than enough to play pretty much everything Feb 10 09:36:44 lupine_86: who needs subtitles? Feb 10 09:36:58 anyone who's using an alternative audio track in a language they don't understand Feb 10 09:37:02 jacekowski: .... Feb 10 09:37:03 plus, you know, the hard of hearing Feb 10 09:37:12 hahaha Feb 10 09:37:16 lupine_86: are you using tvout? Feb 10 09:37:22 no, just on the main screen Feb 10 09:37:31 I'd imagine it's the scaling that's killing performance Feb 10 09:37:41 which -vo? Feb 10 09:37:56 lupine_86: scaling can be accelerated Feb 10 09:38:07 I tried gl and gl2, but they weren't supported(!) so I went with x11 Feb 10 09:38:07 * timeless_mbp pokes mgedmin Feb 10 09:38:11 * mgedmin jumps Feb 10 09:38:15 try xv Feb 10 09:38:18 maybe I'll try xv Feb 10 09:38:19 mgedmin: i think i left something for you in the logs, did you see it? Feb 10 09:38:20 yeah Feb 10 09:38:21 lupine_86, xv! Feb 10 09:38:24 or null Feb 10 09:38:27 timeless_mbp, lemmecheck Feb 10 09:38:30 null is really fast Feb 10 09:38:33 why isn't gl2 supported, anyway? ;) Feb 10 09:38:39 * mgedmin stopped reading logs when the traffic became unmanageable Feb 10 09:39:03 yep, I was offline at 3am in the morning Feb 10 09:40:02 timeless_mbp, I see you looking for me, but not the reason why Feb 10 09:40:13 you left a comment on a blog Feb 10 09:40:22 that's possible Feb 10 09:40:45 * timeless_mbp tries to figure out how to find the blog Feb 10 09:40:49 xv seems better, but it still doesn't keep up Feb 10 09:41:08 lupine_86, what's the video resolution and format? Feb 10 09:41:58 mgedmin: oh Feb 10 09:42:15 roughly just noting that 'voting' for a bug is a way to subscribe for it Feb 10 09:42:22 ah Feb 10 09:42:25 the "me too" suggestion Feb 10 09:42:37 matroska, 640x480, codec avc1, 24bpp 30fps Feb 10 09:42:51 I imagine someone might want to subscribe without voting (e.g. when they've already used up all their votes) Feb 10 09:43:12 Selected video codec: [ffh264] Feb 10 09:43:42 * mgedmin sits back, curiosity satisfied Feb 10 09:44:07 * timeless_mbp nods Feb 10 09:44:10 does someone have a fresh, not messed with N900 at hand? I'd like to know what "grep root /etc/passwd" gives on an as-shipped device Feb 10 09:44:26 pcfe: probably a hash of 'rootme' Feb 10 09:44:39 more likely a ! in the password field Feb 10 09:44:41 no it's like ! or something.. wtf was it Feb 10 09:44:43 stanojr: that is what I think but I would like a verification Feb 10 09:44:45 yes ! it is. Feb 10 09:44:55 the password should be in shadow iirc Feb 10 09:45:02 or do we still not use shadow? Feb 10 09:45:06 mece: ah excellent that answrs my question Feb 10 09:45:15 exactly, pw in shadow, user/shell in passwd Feb 10 09:45:17 timeless_mbp, nope, no shadow Feb 10 09:45:19 pcfe, I'm really not sure though. Feb 10 09:45:19 sec, it's just that bug I'm updatibng Feb 10 09:45:29 * timeless_mbp frowns Feb 10 09:45:46 ! means no login, amIright? Feb 10 09:45:53 hrmm, I'd really like to know if it's a hashed rootme (which I expect) or '!' Feb 10 09:45:56 thanks stskeeps for the only interesting thing in scrollback Feb 10 09:46:11 WZhang: except on embedded systems where the benefit of shadow is really minimal Feb 10 09:46:14 mece, correct, locked account Feb 10 09:46:20 true Feb 10 09:46:36 pcfe, older maemo versions had hashed rootme; newer ones have a locked root account Feb 10 09:46:45 I have somewhere here some unopened N900, if you really need it i look later Feb 10 09:47:17 mgedmin: so it's dev mode and or gainroot that changes it Feb 10 09:47:29 pcfe, no, neither of those touches /etc/passwd Feb 10 09:47:34 openssh-server postinst does Feb 10 09:47:37 WZhang: if mgedmin is sure, that's enough Feb 10 09:48:06 k Feb 10 09:48:10 mgedmin: good, meaning no NOK package does it, meaning getting 8856 fioxed looks improbable, ah well Feb 10 09:49:25 hmm this one made me smile: http://www.360east.com/?p=1211 Feb 10 09:50:46 konttori: ssvbs libjpeg patch is nice, but the problem is desynched tracker info. there must be a way to update filesystem media tracker in O(1) time when a file is written or deleted Feb 10 09:51:15 sorry, what are you talking about? Feb 10 09:51:31 I mean, what case do you really mean? Feb 10 09:51:37 catching up on scrolback: morning! Feb 10 09:52:38 my photos app is not showing proper files Feb 10 09:52:52 it shows missing files and fails to how existing ones Feb 10 09:53:52 and that should be solid and not need to slowly scan anything Feb 10 09:56:21 ~seen dneary Feb 10 09:56:24 dneary <~dneary@Maemo/community/docmaster/dneary> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 5d 17h 42m 17s ago, saying: 'Done'. Feb 10 09:56:30 meh Feb 10 09:57:45 * timeless_mbp cries Feb 10 09:57:56 * timeless_mbp has a fork somewhere and has no idea why Feb 10 09:57:58 will i need the nokia binaries for compiling programs like gcc? Feb 10 09:58:06 (scratchbox question) Feb 10 09:58:55 pupnik_: hmm... sounds like a serious issue in tracker (or image viewer side) Feb 10 09:59:23 sar3th, I don't think so, unless the program you compile depends on some nokia libraries Feb 10 09:59:42 ty mece :) Feb 10 10:00:15 sar3th, don't thank me until you've tried... I'm not quite sure, since I just installed the nok binaries right away. Feb 10 10:00:48 sar3th, but I think you only need them to test stuff, and not compiling. Feb 10 10:06:07 * timeless_mbp is horribly confused :( Feb 10 10:07:50 * Myrtti cries, my teeth hurt so much I can't take a painkiller Feb 10 10:11:45 oops Feb 10 10:12:34 * mgedmin hugs Myrtti Feb 10 10:12:41 ouch Feb 10 10:13:09 the irony is I just came from dentist Feb 10 10:16:00 hi Feb 10 10:16:41 i'm trying to get a full copy of the rootfs from my n900 so i could copy it back with the flasher tool Feb 10 10:16:44 Myrtti: iou ame arom a enfist? :D Feb 10 10:16:53 could someone give some tips on that? Feb 10 10:17:30 * RST38h moos at Myrtti Feb 10 10:18:07 copying files and creating an ubifs image didn't work, and dd'ing works only randomly as there are files open for writing Feb 10 10:18:31 Antti_Alien: mer-project.blogspot.com has a post on making a ubifs image. my trick is rsync -aHx / to a ext3 partition, and copying /dev Feb 10 10:18:45 Myrtti: http://imaginism.deviantart.com/art/Hello-Kitty-Painting-Impostor-141493828 Feb 10 10:18:59 there's also a flash specific dumper, which has been mentioned here before Feb 10 10:19:06 but personally i prefer rsync Feb 10 10:19:23 RST38h: How can I install vulture's eye on n800 btw?) it's too huge Feb 10 10:19:53 awwww Feb 10 10:19:53 doesnt i load the files from a SD card? Feb 10 10:19:56 cute Feb 10 10:20:03 if not just install OS on SD card and boot from it Feb 10 10:20:17 wazd: link /opt to the card Feb 10 10:20:20 (or symlink the directory to a SD card) Feb 10 10:20:31 Stskeeps: i've followed those steps, but the problem is that i didn't get a full copy of the file system to create the image from :/ Feb 10 10:20:44 wazd: javispedro has done some work on Vulture's Maemo4 install, ask him for details Feb 10 10:20:48 but i could try again with rsync Feb 10 10:20:50 Rst38h: and in human language?) Feb 10 10:21:01 Rst38h: ah, ok Feb 10 10:21:03 RST38h: but better only to the internal card, and not the external Feb 10 10:21:05 Antti_Alien: make sure your host PC doesn't mount the partition nodev,nosuid Feb 10 10:21:37 ok Feb 10 10:25:56 Although VNC over WiFi (view N900 on your PC) is great... it's a tad slow... is it possible to make an IP connection to the N900 over the USB on windows? Feb 10 10:26:26 Lantizia: you just need to get a usb-networking driver for windows :) Feb 10 10:26:28 Lantizia: Not in windows but you can set up a small linux virtual machine for that. Feb 10 10:26:31 they exist somewhere Feb 10 10:26:37 MiXu-: not true Feb 10 10:26:40 Should not be to hard to make it for Windows too, i seen that on the Motorola V8 Feb 10 10:26:51 timeless_mbp: Last time I checked I couldn't find one. Feb 10 10:27:06 That was about 3 months ago Feb 10 10:27:09 is it possible to take care of the usb1.1 bug in windows in another way than turning the device off before connecting? Feb 10 10:27:27 timeless_mbp: http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_USB_networking Feb 10 10:27:32 sar3th: eh? Feb 10 10:27:33 you mean like that - but with windows? Feb 10 10:27:48 Lantizia: so. the problem is that windows doesn't come w/ usb networking drivers Feb 10 10:27:55 Yes. Feb 10 10:27:58 unlike the n900, normal linux and os x Feb 10 10:28:02 timeless_mbp: if i connect the n900 via usb to /my/ computer and select mass storage, it's recognized as a usb1.1 device Feb 10 10:28:06 but if you can find that driver, then yes Feb 10 10:28:27 timeless_mbp: i've found somewhere on talk.maemo.org that you need to turn off the n900 before plugging in, then it'll work Feb 10 10:28:31 sar3th: how many usb ports does your computer have? Feb 10 10:28:44 timeless_mbp: 8 i think Feb 10 10:28:51 are they all usb2? Feb 10 10:28:55 yes Feb 10 10:29:26 sar3th: is there a bug in bugs.maemo.org talking about this? Feb 10 10:29:33 * timeless_mbp certainly hasn't noticed such behavior Feb 10 10:29:39 I think it's a windows bug Feb 10 10:29:43 * timeless_mbp hasn't really tried to copy large files Feb 10 10:29:44 i haven't checked on bugs.maemo Feb 10 10:29:53 Changing to another usb port helps sometimes. Feb 10 10:30:01 hehe, f2thak brings teh lulz Feb 10 10:30:04 on another pc, it doesn't occur, mabye HAL fail? Feb 10 10:30:13 MiXu-: i tried that, unsuccessfully :( Feb 10 10:30:25 apparently he's "removed a kernel" :) Feb 10 10:30:25 try updating any drivers on the problem pc Feb 10 10:30:39 there must be a way to speed up apt-get to not take O(N) time on every download Feb 10 10:30:42 Stskeeps: You know you've spelled "dependencies" wrong, right? ;-) Feb 10 10:31:00 MiXu-: drivers are up to date Feb 10 10:31:04 pupnik_: pdiff? Feb 10 10:31:05 Jaffa: did you see my first round of fixes? :) Feb 10 10:31:25 oh fsck Feb 10 10:31:43 * timeless_mbp misses while trying to click a link Feb 10 10:31:44 http://mxr-test.konigsberg.mozilla.org/symbian/source/MCL/sf/mw/accesssec/.hg/patches/dependency Feb 10 10:31:51 X-Fade: maybe, but i suspect it is rescanning the entire db locally Feb 10 10:32:07 pupnik_: yeah, that is just a download thing. Feb 10 10:32:18 Jaffa: :P Feb 10 10:32:50 pupnik_: apt database just doesn't seem to scale well. Feb 10 10:35:26 pupnik_: flat files are fun! Feb 10 10:35:41 they're terribly efficient when they're 10 lines long :) Feb 10 10:37:24 sar3th: Hmm. This may be a long shot, but are you using a Nokia cable or something else? Feb 10 10:37:34 timeless_mbp: X-Fade - im googling a bit. some ppl talk of using a mysql db instead... Feb 10 10:37:35 MiXu-: nokia cable Feb 10 10:37:40 the one which was in the package Feb 10 10:37:41 Ok, never mind then Feb 10 10:38:18 i can't find the bug in bugzilla..will re-check my drivers now (last check was 1 week ago) Feb 10 10:38:19 otoh the problem only really hits devices with -devel enabled atm Feb 10 10:39:21 If you're using drivers from your mobo manufacturer, you could try drivers directly from your chipset manufacturer and vice versa. Feb 10 10:40:47 MiXu-: i had bad experience with the drivers directly from the mobo manufacter (nForce chipset), so i always use the current ones from the chipset manufactor (nvidia), and it seems, they really HAVE released an update :O Feb 10 10:41:41 :) Feb 10 10:42:23 hwy didn't i find them last wekk >_> they are from january.. Feb 10 10:42:26 *why Feb 10 10:42:48 * timeless_mbp tries to figure out http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/device/network/NDIS/usbrndis.mspx Feb 10 10:43:54 have fun with that Feb 10 10:44:17 speaking of random usb stuff Feb 10 10:44:26 there's a new eMMC image coming Feb 10 10:44:34 if someone actually cares about linux audio player support Feb 10 10:44:37 could they speak now? Feb 10 10:44:44 bbl, driver update now Feb 10 10:47:31 what is this "linux audio player" support thing? Feb 10 10:47:56 plug in N900, have Rhythmbox/Banshee/whatever see it as an audio device? Feb 10 10:51:02 Are you saying it's actually required to reflash the emmc to get that support? Feb 10 10:55:10 mgedmin: yeah that thing Feb 10 10:55:16 MiXu-: so... Feb 10 10:55:44 one or more of those stupid apps has decided to "support" a file that explains how they should manage a usb mass storage volume Feb 10 10:55:51 sadly none of them decided to document it Feb 10 10:56:06 timeless_mbp: I do. Feb 10 10:56:32 lol Feb 10 10:57:44 anyone awake that can help me with a problem I'm getting in my attempts to use pre/postinstall scripts from py2deb? Feb 10 10:58:33 zerojay: anyway, did you see the final version of accesssec's patch series? :) Feb 10 10:59:08 timeless_mbp: I'm interested as well ... got a link to somewhere? Feb 10 10:59:24 dazo: to the nonexistent documentation? Feb 10 10:59:30 sure google shows lots of people not finding it :) Feb 10 10:59:53 timeless_mbp: to whatever is available .... even testable code :) Feb 10 11:00:12 timeless_mbp: you're sure it's not using the MTP protocol? Feb 10 11:00:58 dazo: i'm sure i'm talking about usb mass storage Feb 10 11:02:31 timeless_mbp: I have no idea who that is. Feb 10 11:04:41 * timeless_mbp pokes dazo Feb 10 11:05:06 is the n900 able to simulate a usb keyboard? Feb 10 11:05:30 i hope max_pty is increased in pr1.2 Feb 10 11:06:00 :) Feb 10 11:06:23 satmd: Why would you want to do such a thing? :) Feb 10 11:06:26 satmd, that's a good question, hardware-wise I would imagine that's possible. however, why would you want to?-) Feb 10 11:08:03 Bluetooth keyboard for PS3 for example -> A good idea. But real usb keyboards cost like five euros. So why bother with the N900? Feb 10 11:10:42 diver update complete, cross your fingers MiXu- ^^ Feb 10 11:10:49 what's the maemo 5 blogging program called again? Feb 10 11:10:51 :) Feb 10 11:11:48 MaStory? Feb 10 11:12:29 Zerojay, yes, thank you. Feb 10 11:12:42 zerojay, is it good? Seems like a pretty cool application. Feb 10 11:13:14 It is. Feb 10 11:15:16 And the guy behind it has been working on it for quite a while now. Very open to fixing problems if you bring them up to him. Feb 10 11:15:55 hmmm there is an apt2 Feb 10 11:15:58 konttori: ping Feb 10 11:16:09 * satmd pongs :p Feb 10 11:16:35 pinnng Feb 10 11:18:32 MiXu-: still same problem :( Feb 10 11:18:53 i removed it from the device manager to be sure Feb 10 11:22:27 * Damion2 will check back in if I get connectivity whilst in singapore/NZ for the next month, see you. Feb 10 11:22:33 ooh wait, i think it works now.. Feb 10 11:23:31 no sure though Feb 10 11:25:54 Jaffa: pong Feb 10 11:26:24 konttori: Know anything about getting post/preinstall scripts to work from py2deb? Feb 10 11:26:50 * wazd now can leave his country Feb 10 11:27:15 \o/ Feb 10 11:27:22 * Stskeeps gets out the beer Feb 10 11:27:53 MiXu-: I have a router running an encrypted root partition, and I could use this to enter the code Feb 10 11:28:18 embedded headless machine that is Feb 10 11:29:08 what about an bluetooth-usb stick and bluemaemo? Feb 10 11:29:20 no bluetooth-support in the initrd Feb 10 11:29:27 I think that' bloat the initrd too much Feb 10 11:30:10 konttori: We were wondering if you might want to push a fix for bug 8955 in PR 1.2 ;-) Feb 10 11:30:13 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8955 Long application names (labels) in the menu are cut at the end Feb 10 11:30:21 but it may be simpler than to write an usb-keybd app Feb 10 11:30:47 Jaffa: Yes, please. Feb 10 11:31:26 * zerojay boos. Feb 10 11:31:39 wb Feb 10 11:31:53 Hi, is there any way to make the address bar on my N900 not pop up when I click links/go back? Feb 10 11:31:57 satmd: I see. But still wouldn't it be easier to just get a real usb-keyboard? :) Feb 10 11:31:58 zerojay: Given hildon-desktop's open source, I suppose we could come up with a patch, but if it's WONTFIX from Nokia there's no guarantee it'd be merged Feb 10 11:31:59 don't think so, I would have to hardcode the pin, too Feb 10 11:32:05 MiXu-: true Feb 10 11:32:15 well, I could to with minicom + serial, too Feb 10 11:32:18 that'd be even better Feb 10 11:32:24 zerojay: And konttori's hildon-desktop devs will know the code better ;-) Feb 10 11:32:46 Is there a way to set up an internet connection for scratchbox? Feb 10 11:32:55 Jaffa: sure Feb 10 11:32:56 MiXu-: sure Feb 10 11:33:01 Jaffa: if patch would exists then community can provide own packages Feb 10 11:33:17 Jaffa: I'll release a version this weekend Feb 10 11:33:23 hrw: indeed, but patch doesn't exist Feb 10 11:33:28 No wait... It works out of the box :D Feb 10 11:33:38 something wrong with the apt then Feb 10 11:33:45 Jaffa: will be pretty basic but will have good foundations to build upon Feb 10 11:33:46 jebba is awesome. a review of HAM / apt issues on fremantle: http://www.freemoe.org/users/jebba/scratchbox/maemo-af/hildon-application-manager/git/mainline/PAST Feb 10 11:34:00 crashanddie: Cool stuff Feb 10 11:34:23 the long waits are from apt-worker Feb 10 11:34:30 Damn it... I can't get these pre/postinstall scripts to run after packaging with py2deb. Nothing but errors with zero detail. Feb 10 11:34:46 ha ha Feb 10 11:34:47 Jaffa, what was the issue? my irc client restarted and I missed what you asked from me Feb 10 11:34:48 :( Feb 10 11:40:06 pupnik: http://maemo.gitorious.com/hildon-application-manager/mainline/blobs/master/PAST is original Feb 10 11:41:51 konttori: Bug 8955 Feb 10 11:41:53 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8955 Long application names (labels) in the menu are cut at the end Feb 10 11:43:28 Jaffa: there is no good wrapping in gtk either. Feb 10 11:43:40 hrw yeah right. sry. fascinating the complexity! Feb 10 11:44:42 konttori: Gtk+'s is good enough for App Mgr, though Feb 10 11:44:46 My issue is that it's better to force for shorted app names for the grid. Feb 10 11:45:43 konttori: better or cheaper? Feb 10 11:46:02 hrw: as usual, i discover that there is no asy fix to this :) Feb 10 11:46:04 anyway, it cannot be pushed to pr1.2 anymore, but after that, if you gus really want it in and can make a patch, we can integrate it (if it only triggers for the longer than 12 letters cases) Feb 10 11:46:13 looks better. Feb 10 11:46:36 the icon should be the primary source of information Feb 10 11:46:40 having them shorter == one small fix in doc and no devtime. having them wordwrapped == devtime rather longer then doc update Feb 10 11:47:04 sure, but also, long names in a grid make the grid look messy Feb 10 11:47:44 PalmOS had that Feb 10 11:48:06 but no, PalmOS is not good comparison Feb 10 11:48:27 as it had things in 199x which are not yet in maemo5 Feb 10 11:50:22 * pupnik puts whine cap on hrw :) Feb 10 11:51:58 uf - after bumping automake/autoconf I got vala-native built. one more step to get OpenEmbedded building maemo5 compatible packages Feb 10 11:52:40 cool Feb 10 11:53:30 bad effect is that my stuff will need me to run repo instead of pushing to extras Feb 10 11:53:38 but I can live with it Feb 10 11:53:55 due to automake/autoconf version? Feb 10 11:54:17 no, extras rebuild stuff with maemosdk and debian/rules packaging Feb 10 11:54:34 and I do not want to push free stuff to non-free repo Feb 10 11:54:55 I would do that Feb 10 11:55:30 anyway, the name of the non-free is bad, but really, a repo like that is needed Feb 10 11:55:46 * WZhang is playing >>The Soundlovers<< - >>Surrender<< Feb 10 11:55:56 whoops, sorry - wrong channel :P Feb 10 11:56:06 anyway, now also deb installation works, so perhaps you could also use that to your advantage Feb 10 11:57:26 whats in a name? capulet, montague, non-free... Feb 10 11:58:22 not-autobuilt-maybe-also-not-open Feb 10 12:01:12 timeless_mbp: sorry, had to run out for a while Feb 10 12:01:14 lol if maemo allows not-autobuilt... Feb 10 12:01:39 * dazo finds the usb cable and plugs it in Feb 10 12:02:11 extras-untrusted :) Feb 10 12:02:51 pupnik: extras-maemosdksuxx Feb 10 12:03:14 konttori: "contrib"? Feb 10 12:03:46 so in the end we will finish with extras/contrib/USERNAME/ Feb 10 12:04:38 timeless_mbp: as the new name? well, "binary"? Feb 10 12:04:38 extras/contrib/org.example/USERNAME Feb 10 12:05:03 'free' and 'binary' don't really work Feb 10 12:05:03 How often are packages imported into extras-devel from autobuilder? Feb 10 12:05:16 surely the stuff in 'free' contains binaries that I, a user, can install? Feb 10 12:05:24 zerojay: Instantly. Feb 10 12:05:30 zerojay: successfully? :) Feb 10 12:05:47 closed? Feb 10 12:05:49 Seems like every 30 minutes. Feb 10 12:05:53 me pokes X-Fade about karma updates Feb 10 12:06:03 konttori: closed != non-free Feb 10 12:06:06 zerojay: No, there is 30 minutes cache on the repositories. Feb 10 12:06:11 crashanddie karma should be fixed now Feb 10 12:06:22 tekojo: oh realy? Feb 10 12:06:23 konttori: Mauku was non-free but not closed Feb 10 12:06:27 just takes a day to run Feb 10 12:06:30 crashanddie: Applied a fix an hour ago. Feb 10 12:06:36 oh cool Feb 10 12:06:38 what was the issue? Feb 10 12:06:55 Indexed the same people all over ;) Feb 10 12:07:03 Instead of moving on. Feb 10 12:07:28 interesting Feb 10 12:07:43 * timeless_mbp still likes contrib Feb 10 12:07:54 contrib roughly means "foreign binary" Feb 10 12:07:57 anyway, we cannot change the name anymore, so it was more academic anyway Feb 10 12:08:15 X-Fade: so when will it be updated? Feb 10 12:08:59 * timeless_mbp grumbles Feb 10 12:09:10 crashanddie: Indexes 1200 per hour, ordered by last-updated. Feb 10 12:09:19 cool Feb 10 12:09:34 So depends on where you are in that ordering. Feb 10 12:09:38 so 24 hours for the whole community, me thinks Feb 10 12:10:10 crashanddie 25 hours Feb 10 12:10:11 Yeah a bit more. Feb 10 12:10:19 the count is over 30000 now Feb 10 12:10:32 X-Fade, btw, this page: http://maemo.org/downloads/Maemo5/ has a fix to only display 'fresh' apps with screenshots, but the front page doesn't have anymore(never had ?) Feb 10 12:10:32 that was close enough :P Feb 10 12:10:48 ugh Feb 10 12:11:12 VDVsx: No idea, I didn't create that at least. Feb 10 12:11:33 humm Feb 10 12:11:48 VDVsx: you know this by heart, what's the ratio of karma for ITT Thanks? Feb 10 12:12:16 srt(thanks)*8 IIRC Feb 10 12:12:20 *sqrt Feb 10 12:12:21 http://wiki.maemo.org/Karma Feb 10 12:12:49 yup, is that :D Feb 10 12:12:50 zerojay: I said by heart Feb 10 12:13:05 ~sqrt(270) Feb 10 12:13:10 ~stupid Feb 10 12:13:11 it has been said that stupid is http://fun.drno.de/pics/english/bart.gif Feb 10 12:13:25 eheh Feb 10 12:14:17 Also - why might bugs reported not track for karma. Feb 10 12:14:30 http://mxr-test.konigsberg.mozilla.org/symbian/search?string=asynchronic Feb 10 12:15:10 god karma is useless Feb 10 12:15:15 non-free - z-rejected ;) anything that for whatever reason cannot go into free ;) Feb 10 12:15:19 human karma as well, for that matter Feb 10 12:15:19 SpeedEvil, humm ? Feb 10 12:15:24 VDVsx: Feb 10 12:15:40 jesus... this internet connection isn't even powerful enough to stream audio... Feb 10 12:15:42 I was idly wondering why my karma had no contribution from the several bugs I've reported. Feb 10 12:16:34 SpeedEvil, karma is currently stuck Feb 10 12:16:46 should be fine tomorrow it seems Feb 10 12:17:04 SpeedEvil: X-Fade just updated the script Feb 10 12:17:06 * timeless_mbp cries Feb 10 12:17:09 xerces sucks Feb 10 12:17:14 http://mxr-test.konigsberg.mozilla.org/symbian/search?string=binarily Feb 10 12:17:21 SpeedEvil: it reads if ($username != SpeedEvil) // process karma Feb 10 12:18:00 so I'm working on this massive project Feb 10 12:18:08 Access denied: You need the privilege midgard:update. <-- wth Feb 10 12:18:13 database kids, fasten your seatbelt Feb 10 12:18:38 to process 200 users, we're hitting not very far from 1.2 million queries Feb 10 12:18:54 damn Feb 10 12:19:14 VDVsx: naah - for >1 month now Feb 10 12:19:29 SpeedEvil: yes, the fix has just been implemented Feb 10 12:19:35 yup Feb 10 12:19:41 SpeedEvil: karma counter has been running in circles for months Feb 10 12:20:49 ah Feb 10 12:21:36 How many people are participating in the 360meter study? (invite only use-case study) Feb 10 12:22:14 SpeedEvil: I am, or was anyways Feb 10 12:22:46 frals, ping? Feb 10 12:22:47 * SpeedEvil wonders how many got invites. Feb 10 12:22:53 pong Feb 10 12:23:07 SpeedEvil: it's not all invite only Feb 10 12:23:15 it's not? Feb 10 12:23:19 ah Feb 10 12:23:42 SpeedEvil: I had to disable the repo a while back since it was timing out, you still have yours on? Feb 10 12:23:58 frals, is fAPN (still) needed to get this fMMS thingamabob working? Feb 10 12:24:14 asj_: repo? yes-download worked fine Feb 10 12:24:17 if you need a separate APN for fetching MMS, yes ;) Feb 10 12:24:28 SpeedEvil: ok Feb 10 12:24:35 asj_: currentlylogging everything I do (in an anonymised way) Feb 10 12:24:45 frals, hmm.. do I? I don't know what an APN is :) Feb 10 12:24:52 X-Fade: could you check why fMMS 0.3.3 isnt making it into the repos? it's listed at http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_armel/fmms/0.3.3-1/ but still havent showed up on device Feb 10 12:25:14 I need to find a cheap dedicated vps or rps in the UK, ideas anyone? Feb 10 12:25:24 requirements: unlimited bandwidth, and at least 20 gigs of HD Feb 10 12:25:25 frals, apparently one was needed before, so I guess I need it. Feb 10 12:25:27 mece: depends on your operator, if they got different details for internet and mms listed Feb 10 12:25:46 hi there Feb 10 12:25:50 frals, ah yes. I believe they do. Saunalahti... Feb 10 12:25:50 frals: Yes, I think I know what happened there :( Feb 10 12:26:14 crashanddie: why uk? Feb 10 12:26:16 mece: then you need it - exact settings are on wiki.maemo.org/MMS Feb 10 12:26:23 SpeedEvil: bbc iplayer :P Feb 10 12:26:31 frals, great, thanks! Feb 10 12:26:33 X-Fade: something I should do? :) Feb 10 12:26:39 ah Feb 10 12:26:41 crashanddie: aka iFAIL :) Feb 10 12:27:06 tybollt: aka iPwn on good shows and good quality Feb 10 12:27:17 meh Feb 10 12:27:18 frals: There was a nice bug in repo cleanup which moved the file to trash. Feb 10 12:27:24 frals: Will fix. Feb 10 12:27:31 zerojay: any idea what http://mxr-test.konigsberg.mozilla.org/symbian/search?string=constaiting means? Feb 10 12:27:32 X-Fade: thanks :) Feb 10 12:27:39 crashanddie: the reduced quality of HD ... you know.. it was even in /. :) Feb 10 12:27:41 frals: Well, the issue was fixed. Just need to put the files back in place. Feb 10 12:27:42 tybollt: sorry, but being human, top gear and merlin are enough to warrant it ;) Feb 10 12:28:24 ja, I like top gear too Feb 10 12:28:34 tybollt: oh, and spotify as well Feb 10 12:28:57 frals: Let me get a quick lunch and then I'll fix it for you. Feb 10 12:29:02 but yeah, you're right, I should probably go with the cheap dedicated CPU option... 10 quid per month ain't that bad for something hosted in france Feb 10 12:29:05 Ah. Silly me. bugzilla name is different to the rest of the maemo account. is there a way to tell it? Feb 10 12:29:07 X-Fade: no rush :) thanks :) Feb 10 12:29:09 I ought to use that but ... meh... can't be arsed to =) Feb 10 12:29:36 frals read your tweet.. cool :) Feb 10 12:29:59 (that bugzilla name = speedevil for the purposes of karma) Feb 10 12:30:17 * Anidel hungry... ttyl Feb 10 12:33:46 ha! mdbus2 works on maemo5 now ;) Feb 10 12:34:29 optified? Feb 10 12:35:19 22KB? Feb 10 12:35:58 oh =) Feb 10 12:37:04 every byte counts! Feb 10 12:37:31 22k here, 22k there and we end up with tons of stuff on / Feb 10 12:39:08 blah blah blah Feb 10 12:39:15 thats on my device not yours Feb 10 12:42:29 hi dneary Feb 10 12:42:40 hi hrw Feb 10 12:43:01 hello, anyone ever heard of the problem that you can't download from ovi-store? Feb 10 12:43:09 dneary: fosdem needs to be longer as we did not finally had a time to talk Feb 10 12:43:21 Very true Feb 10 12:43:28 But if it was longer, it wouldn't be FOSDEM Feb 10 12:44:25 but rather FOSDEC Feb 10 12:52:49 hm, is gpe todo installable from repository? Feb 10 12:53:04 whines about gpe-summary dependency when i try to install Feb 10 12:59:27 anyone ever heard of the problem that you can't download from ovi-store via wifi? Feb 10 13:00:12 lingling92: Do you have a locked version? Feb 10 13:00:30 lingling92: E.g. UK voda? Feb 10 13:00:36 no Feb 10 13:00:47 Then, no. Feb 10 13:00:55 :( Feb 10 13:01:07 lingling92: Most recent firmware? Feb 10 13:01:45 2.2009.51-1 Feb 10 13:04:05 lingling92: should work. Feb 10 13:04:24 yes, should but does not Feb 10 13:05:47 when media player will be more powerfull? Feb 10 13:07:57 roshenia_: eh? Feb 10 13:08:13 media playes is so sux in my n900 Feb 10 13:08:25 Do you speak English? Feb 10 13:08:30 could you please try harder? Feb 10 13:09:29 roshenia_: try alternatives ones: mediabox for example Feb 10 13:09:48 too bad that Canola lacks maemo5 version Feb 10 13:09:53 actually, I'm interested too: are there any media players for the n900 that don't suck? Feb 10 13:09:56 mediabox is better? Feb 10 13:10:02 if you described an actual problem, people might be able to suggest something Feb 10 13:10:02 roshenia_: no idea, try Feb 10 13:10:06 but saying "foo sux" Feb 10 13:10:08 hmmm Feb 10 13:10:18 doesn't help people divine *why* you think "foo sux" Feb 10 13:10:35 and those suggest something which would not "sux" according to your secret definition of "sux" Feb 10 13:10:42 timeless_mbp, for example: album\artist sort Feb 10 13:11:11 this is Music and not Videos? Feb 10 13:11:24 videos lacks any sorting/grouping Feb 10 13:11:38 yes. only music Feb 10 13:11:47 hrw: not technically true :) Feb 10 13:12:45 timeless_mbp: ever put 140 episodes of 4 cartoons? Feb 10 13:13:00 hrw: it has two views, and thus has _some_ Feb 10 13:13:11 not necessarily _useful_, but technically it satisfies 'any' Feb 10 13:13:24 * Stskeeps absolutely loves his ability to snapshot his n900, flash another rootfs, reflash his n900 back to normal Feb 10 13:14:08 roshenia_: the ui designers felt that album\artist failed often enough that it wasn't worth offering Feb 10 13:14:10 iirc Feb 10 13:14:12 timeless_mbp: that 'some' is worse then none I think Feb 10 13:14:15 they're gone, so you can't complain to them Feb 10 13:14:22 hrw: =~ s/then/than/ Feb 10 13:14:30 sure Feb 10 13:15:11 England has overweight hedgehogs? Feb 10 13:15:31 I never saw a broken N810 on ebay Feb 10 13:16:40 Stskeeps, complete / snapshot? Feb 10 13:16:44 lcuk: yeah Feb 10 13:16:49 what about /opt Feb 10 13:16:53 is on emmc Feb 10 13:17:08 yeah but wont the replacement OS do things to it that might conflict Feb 10 13:17:20 that is true, but currently it doesn't :P Feb 10 13:17:26 it is possible to back up /opt too Feb 10 13:18:04 shall talk to you more about this later,im a tad busy atm Feb 10 13:18:15 Stskeeps: you use mtd-utils or dd to make a dump of rootfs? Feb 10 13:18:26 hrw: neither, rsync to ext3 and then ubifs that Feb 10 13:18:29 ok Feb 10 13:19:17 Any idea how i could change the keyboard layout for a external connected USB keyboard from english to german? Feb 10 13:22:31 lardman: maemo5-compat landed in OE - feel free to test/improve/complain Feb 10 13:28:18 Hey, I've been told the 770 USB Network drivers for XP work for doing N900 - does anyone know if this is true or if there are better drivers for USB networking support? Feb 10 13:30:43 Lantizia: there is one driver for all linux powered devices Feb 10 13:30:49 basically Feb 10 13:37:07 back :) Feb 10 13:55:25 frals: Should be fixed now. Feb 10 13:55:45 why is frals not a nookla employee yet? Feb 10 13:57:18 hmm Feb 10 13:57:25 * Arif thinks the battery icon looks lame Feb 10 13:58:58 http://talk.maemo.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=6316&stc=1&d=1264345246 Feb 10 13:59:05 anyone know where I can find that battery indicator? Feb 10 14:00:07 * cehteh would rather like some battery indicator which tells how far charging progressed Feb 10 14:00:24 i dont care about the look Feb 10 14:00:26 unplug it :p Feb 10 14:00:51 well some ETA would be nice too Feb 10 14:01:07 I still want hte battery icon in that picture Feb 10 14:01:12 it looks better than the standard one Feb 10 14:01:12 :( Feb 10 14:01:23 and its possible by watching the voltage, not very accurate, but better than nothing Feb 10 14:02:14 oo Feb 10 14:02:16 I think I found it Feb 10 14:06:21 cehteh: not really Feb 10 14:06:34 it is Feb 10 14:06:57 measuring voltage is very inacurate Feb 10 14:07:10 jacekowski, how about measing the change in voltage? Feb 10 14:07:39 only way it would be measuring voltage and comparing it to known values measured in previous charge cycle Feb 10 14:07:49 the volltage measureing actually must be quite accurated for the battery Feb 10 14:08:01 but there are a lot influences which change the voltage .. Feb 10 14:08:09 jacekowski, I was thinking rather like how much the battery voltage has changed in the last 30 minutes compared to the 30 minutes before that etc Feb 10 14:08:22 cehteh: yes, but needs to be measured while not charging. Feb 10 14:08:28 doesn't it slow down the further you get? Feb 10 14:08:28 cehteh: you need resting voltage. Feb 10 14:08:38 flux: no Feb 10 14:08:43 you need to watch it, interpolate, find out how fast its charging and know the charge end point Feb 10 14:08:48 x-fade, but that resting period doesn't need to be very long, does it? Feb 10 14:08:51 jacekowski, oh, never mind then :) Feb 10 14:08:57 flux: there are 2 basic types of batteries used in phones Feb 10 14:09:00 old NiCd Feb 10 14:09:02 yes some daemon which watches it over time Feb 10 14:09:04 and new LiIon Feb 10 14:09:07 flux: No, you just need to turn the charge off and wait a very short time. Feb 10 14:09:21 jacekowski: It is LiPo Feb 10 14:09:34 you can watch the charge voltage ... should siffoce Feb 10 14:09:40 cehteh, one problem is that you also need to know how much you are consuming at the moment Feb 10 14:09:43 The battery voltage reported by hal is a very inacurate representation of the real voltage Feb 10 14:09:45 NiCD or acid batteries and couple other types are charged by directly applying constant voltage to them Feb 10 14:09:55 jacekowski: err - no, they are not Feb 10 14:10:00 cehteh: Internal resistance makes it measure a bit higher than the actual voltage is. Feb 10 14:10:07 and? Feb 10 14:10:15 SpeedEvil: they are Feb 10 14:10:27 so? Feb 10 14:10:30 cehteh: And as you need to be very careful around 4.2v, you need to turn off charging to measure. Feb 10 14:10:44 SpeedEvil: you apply constant voltage to them with some reasonable current limit just in case Feb 10 14:10:56 jacekowski: NiCd is charged by a constant current until a negative delta-v condition, or temperature or time thresholds. Lead acid is charged by a constant current followed by a float charge phase. Feb 10 14:11:05 i only need the end voltage from the last charging and the charge curve then i can roughly match that to the current charge cycle Feb 10 14:11:12 li-ion is more like lead-acid Feb 10 14:11:13 with LiPol are charged by constant current Feb 10 14:11:15 That is why the last few percent take most of the time to charge. Feb 10 14:11:29 jacekowski: no, it's not. It's a constant current, then a constant voltage phase. Feb 10 14:11:39 jacekowski: Until you reach 4.2 and then you go to CV phase. Feb 10 14:12:02 if you are in CV then battery is charged Feb 10 14:12:06 and that's not important for now Feb 10 14:12:13 and terminate charge when current reaches 1/20th or so of what it was in the entry to CV Feb 10 14:12:26 as soon you are at CV you can just tell "almost full" and done .. maybe measure how long this takes and run a stopwatch and interpolate that over charge cycles Feb 10 14:12:35 if you're in CV your battery is 70-90% charged - depending on battery lifetime Feb 10 14:12:44 s/lifetime/age/ Feb 10 14:12:45 SpeedEvil meant: if you're in CV your battery is 70-90% charged - depending on battery age Feb 10 14:15:58 15:13 < jacekowski> i've seen shitloads of different battery chargers and every single one had different charging voltage/current curve stating that this one is superior to other Feb 10 14:15:58 Phone call volume control is annoying :/ Feb 10 14:16:08 15:13 < jacekowski> but going back to determining battery charge level Feb 10 14:16:15 15:14 < jacekowski> it would be possible by measuring current voltage and comparing it to voltage in previous charge cycle Feb 10 14:16:52 jacekowski: You need to log the charge and discharge curve. Feb 10 14:17:09 jacekowski: Like the gnome battery meter does very nicely. Feb 10 14:18:46 the underlying charge voltage rported is very inaccurate Feb 10 14:18:58 lshal|awk '/voltage.current/{print ($3-3700)/5"%"}' Feb 10 14:19:05 yeah, but result is repeatable Feb 10 14:19:09 Is not quite useless reporting of battery use. Feb 10 14:19:12 jacekowski: no, it's not. Feb 10 14:19:22 jacekowski: graph it, and you can see it's patent nonesense. Feb 10 14:19:39 voltage.current makes big jumps, and stays constant for long periods. Feb 10 14:20:10 where is | on n900 keyboard? Feb 10 14:20:14 It looks like stair-steps with irregular and nonsensical steps - not an actual measurement of the batteryby somemeans. Feb 10 14:21:09 There is presumably an underlying measurement - but it's obscured somewhat. The driver diddn't seem completly insane - I need to work out how to get it to emit a battery charge measurement. Feb 10 14:21:21 top corner in extra symbols Feb 10 14:22:45 (plot voltage.current against time as discharging when polled every 20s) Feb 10 14:27:23 so when is PR 1.2 coming out Feb 10 14:27:26 with Ovi Maps 3.0 Feb 10 14:27:28 and USSD Support Feb 10 14:27:30 hrw: do you know what that driver is called or where to get it from? Feb 10 14:27:30 :D Feb 10 14:28:27 Lantizia: I do not connect linux devices to ms windows Feb 10 14:28:42 siriusnova, I hear Nokia abandoned the N900 ;( Feb 10 14:28:48 yeah they did Feb 10 14:28:49 :( Feb 10 14:29:08 ?! Feb 10 14:29:17 no they didn't, just be patient Feb 10 14:29:20 well, that voltage seems to be stable on mine Feb 10 14:29:30 Arif: no they didn't Feb 10 14:29:44 jacekowski: it generally shouldn't be - if it's discharging. Feb 10 14:29:44 don't feed the trolls Feb 10 14:29:50 new software needs a lot of testing before they can throw a switch and upgrade 1000s of units they sold Feb 10 14:30:00 * Arif hands everyone a sarcasm detector Feb 10 14:30:27 trolldars seem to be broken Feb 10 14:30:59 SpeedEvil: i mean i've got something reading that in loop and it shows value that's stable and every so often get's little bit smaller Feb 10 14:31:37 Robot101: apple didn't care about that Feb 10 14:31:44 We'll murder them all amid laughter and merriment, except for the few we take home to experiment! Feb 10 14:31:52 Robot101: they shipped thousands iphones with barely working 2.0 software Feb 10 14:32:02 is there anyway to boost the radio transmitter signal? Feb 10 14:32:04 Robot101: and kept fixing it for next half year Feb 10 14:32:09 and that makes them better than Nokia exactly how, jacekowski? Feb 10 14:32:18 cant barely use the function as it is now Feb 10 14:32:25 fmboost in extras? Feb 10 14:32:27 jacekowski: the problem is the jumps - at least when I graphed it - are nonphysical. There is something in there between the ADC and the output that is processing the numbers - ad making it stable, but inaccurate. Feb 10 14:32:32 Arif: that's different thing Feb 10 14:32:50 The FM transmitter is designed to only work to several meters at best. Feb 10 14:33:03 http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_FM_Radio_Transmitter Feb 10 14:33:06 libben: get better radio Feb 10 14:33:10 has some links to performance tests done Feb 10 14:33:16 I haven't tested mine yet Feb 10 14:33:28 At the legal limit in the UK - you get about a 4m range. Feb 10 14:33:31 jacekowski: i got a pretty new one Feb 10 14:33:38 In the best case Feb 10 14:33:48 i needed to stand like 50 cm from the antenna for it to really work Feb 10 14:33:52 (and the UK has it already turned up to max) Feb 10 14:34:18 That's assuming it emits as much as legally possible when turned up to 118 Feb 10 14:34:37 If you have picked a not empty channel - it's much under 4m Feb 10 14:34:46 i dont think mine is set for that value =) Feb 10 14:34:55 i need to stand like 50 cm from the antenna Feb 10 14:35:03 i took a relative empty channel Feb 10 14:35:05 Minor ROTFL: http://www.chucklorre.com/index-bbt.php?p=277 Feb 10 14:35:09 with no close neighbours Feb 10 14:35:25 (Warner finally meets an enemy they cannot sue =)) Feb 10 14:35:30 libben: the power is _tiny_ even best case. Any signal at all will pretty much kill your range. Feb 10 14:35:52 even if u get it to run at 118 ? Feb 10 14:36:19 yes Feb 10 14:36:20 i saw a video of a guy that boasted it to 118, and he was like 2-3 meters away from the car where he tried it Feb 10 14:36:34 libben: because he had better radio Feb 10 14:36:40 [SIGNAL] Phone.Net.cell_info_change ( 2, 41007, 32888749, 1, 260, 0, 0 ) Feb 10 14:36:40 [SIGNAL] Phone.Net.registration_status_change ( 0, 41007, 32888747, 1, 260, 0, 3 ) Feb 10 14:36:41 probably =) Feb 10 14:36:41 To quote the BBC - However, the chosen maximum ERP of 50 nW is neither sufficiently small to avoid creating interference to broadcast reception nor sufficiently large to guarantee that such ‘Micro’ FM transmitters will actually work as intended in areas where Band II is utilised intensively, such as London Feb 10 14:36:44 [SIGNAL] Phone.Net.operator_name_change ( 3, "Plus", "", 1, 260 ) Feb 10 14:36:44 nice ;) Feb 10 14:36:46 [SIGNAL] Phone.Net.cell_info_change ( 2, 41007, 32888747, 1, 260, 0, 0 ) Feb 10 14:36:50 my signal is not the best Feb 10 14:36:59 libben: some radios need much stronger signal Feb 10 14:37:18 50nW is - as I understand it - the maximum of the hardware radio and coincidentally the UK legal limit Feb 10 14:37:34 nanowatts? Feb 10 14:37:37 yes Feb 10 14:37:39 well, should be easier to fix a line in cable =) Feb 10 14:37:43 wow... Feb 10 14:37:53 yeah Feb 10 14:37:55 15nW is the limit in the states Feb 10 14:37:57 50nW is like a nothing Feb 10 14:38:07 compared to 2W transmitter for GSM Feb 10 14:38:28 The 2W transmitter has a range of ~10km. Feb 10 14:38:40 oh that'd be nice Feb 10 14:38:44 If you assume a similar radio - the square roots kick in. Feb 10 14:38:44 10km from the N900 :D Feb 10 14:38:49 no - the GSm radio Feb 10 14:39:29 * ShadowJK has been 20km from nearest tower with n900 and it has worked fine Feb 10 14:39:33 the resultant range would be about 1.5m Feb 10 14:39:34 as far as i remember gsm have range of 15km with that 2W transmitter Feb 10 14:39:39 which is about right Feb 10 14:39:47 Windows bluetooth stack is pretty crappy Feb 10 14:40:08 radio decays as the square root of distance. A thousand times as far - a million times as weak. Feb 10 14:40:31 so Feb 10 14:40:33 question Feb 10 14:40:37 Asus or Lenovo Thinkpad? Feb 10 14:40:38 :p Feb 10 14:40:51 Lenovo Feb 10 14:40:55 :D Feb 10 14:41:06 IBM Feb 10 14:41:08 siriusnova: DO NOT get the thinkpad "SL" serier Feb 10 14:41:18 those are not real thinkpads Feb 10 14:41:45 im going to get the Lenovo W510 Feb 10 14:42:14 my next will probably be X61 Feb 10 14:43:02 lagging saves money Feb 10 14:44:52 the Lenovo W510 has a core i7-820QM and 16GB ram Feb 10 14:44:53 :D Feb 10 14:46:00 how long battery lasts? Feb 10 14:46:12 quite long from what i read Feb 10 14:46:29 one hour? Feb 10 14:46:32 :) Feb 10 14:46:36 more like 6-8 Feb 10 14:48:02 15 NANO watts whatts? Feb 10 14:48:16 fmtx power Feb 10 14:48:23 legality in the US Feb 10 14:48:31 Are there any special things to be aware of or can I go the "debian" way to make jabber understand msn and icq and those, and use them using the builtin IM thingy? Feb 10 14:48:47 good morning Feb 10 14:48:50 you're sure noise in a wire at room temp doesn't violate that? Feb 10 14:48:59 i.e. can I just install jabber-jit, jabber-msn and jabber-yahoo and edit the configs? will the maemo conversations app understand this? Feb 10 14:49:19 ibm don't make thinkpads anymore Feb 10 14:49:30 Shapeshifter: just enable maemo-testing and choose "Extra protocols for Conversations and Contacts" Feb 10 14:49:37 Shapeshifter: then you can create accounts for all of these other protocols Feb 10 14:49:43 and going back to IM in n900 Feb 10 14:49:52 how to import gadu-gadu contacts? Feb 10 14:50:07 there's already an IM framework (called Telepathy) in the N900, so you can just install these extra backends Feb 10 14:50:10 Robot101: okay thanks Feb 10 14:50:14 jacekowski: if you do that, you should get gg too Feb 10 14:50:19 i have gg Feb 10 14:50:29 i just don't know how to import my buddylist Feb 10 14:50:34 SpeedEvil: that's insane Feb 10 14:50:38 X-Fade: cheers :) Feb 10 14:51:58 jacekowski: ? it should be on the server Feb 10 14:52:11 SpeedEvil: 15microW ok, 15 nano(1)W is ridiculous Feb 10 14:52:21 Robot101: it is Feb 10 14:52:27 Robot101: but n900 isn't importing it Feb 10 14:52:31 so they should just appear in your contacts Feb 10 14:52:33 buh boh Feb 10 14:52:33 amigadave, Ping? Feb 10 14:52:36 must be a bug... Feb 10 14:52:46 oh wow the droid can play usb host? Feb 10 14:52:48 so sad. Feb 10 14:52:48 ask on #telepathy, see if someone has time to help you debug it? Feb 10 14:52:51 dneary: pong Feb 10 14:52:53 amigadave, You didn't like the Software page as a template for the Software category? Feb 10 14:53:12 I kind of thought it was OK - let us use the category page as a real portal Feb 10 14:53:17 dneary: well, the Software page included the Software category, which was included by the Software category :) Feb 10 14:53:24 And the added advantage of taking care of a bunch of orphans :) Feb 10 14:53:30 DocScrutinizer: it's really not Feb 10 14:53:30 Software os now an orphan Feb 10 14:53:36 ah, but that is cheating! :P Feb 10 14:53:46 i will fix up the orphans, do not worry :) Feb 10 14:53:46 I guess I could have taken Software out of the Software category Feb 10 14:54:00 Robot101: do I need "pidgin extra protocols" or "pidgin protocols plugin for conversations and contacts" or both? Feb 10 14:54:11 Links in category pages don't count for orphanage I'm afraid Feb 10 14:54:14 DocScrutinizer: if you consider the impact. The range at which a 15uW transmitter messes reception of a signal at the borderline of coverage is really quite large. Feb 10 14:54:25 dneary: oh, it also appears that i need sysop rights to delete a page, unless you would like to clear the ‘Articles marked for deletion’ for me? Feb 10 14:54:59 I can... I thought I gave you wiki admin privileges Feb 10 14:55:05 admin, but not sysop Feb 10 14:55:06 I can't give you sysop privs Feb 10 14:55:09 oh, ok Feb 10 14:55:11 DocScrutinizer: http://www.ofcom.org.uk/consult/condocs/wtexemption/responses/bbc.pdf has more details - but... Feb 10 14:55:21 She dinnae have the powerrr cap'n Feb 10 14:56:03 SpeedEvil: damn, with 10 MILLI W WLAN I get a 30m maybe Feb 10 14:56:35 Shapeshifter: don't bother with those, just get the "Extra protocols..." and it will install what it needs Feb 10 14:56:41 i get 15km with 100mW Feb 10 14:56:47 and directional antennas Feb 10 14:56:57 so with 10nW i see a 30cm I'd guess Feb 10 14:57:11 i like that Multimedia is a redirect that is in the Media category Feb 10 14:57:23 DocScrutinizer: that's not linear Feb 10 14:57:33 jacekowski: directional ant is cheating Feb 10 14:57:33 DocScrutinizer: and wifi uses different frequencies Feb 10 14:58:48 jacekowski: SQRT(10mW/10nW)*30m=30cm, no? Feb 10 14:59:04 err other way round Feb 10 14:59:19 jacekowski: SQRT(10mW/10nW)*30cm=30m Feb 10 14:59:48 if youincrease power 4 times you only get 2x range Feb 10 15:00:15 oh yeah, you're right, it's more like 3cm then Feb 10 15:02:44 jacekowski: and to give you an analogy: with directional RF of 550nm I get a theoretical range of 1000km with 50mW Feb 10 15:02:51 Robot101: okay thanks Feb 10 15:03:09 maybe even much more, depending on divergency of the laser Feb 10 15:04:10 jacekowski: so your figure with directional antenna is meaningless Feb 10 15:06:39 OOH Feb 10 15:06:41 Announce! Feb 10 15:06:44 * timeless_mbp can now publish Feb 10 15:06:46 Announce! Feb 10 15:07:01 eeh? Feb 10 15:07:03 Announce! Feb 10 15:07:08 * tybollt is eagerly awaiting gadgetoid's blogposts! Feb 10 15:07:19 the maemo5 localization files were approved for "opening" Feb 10 15:07:23 whatever that means :) Feb 10 15:07:36 LOL Feb 10 15:07:46 timeless_mbp: sources for *-l10n-* packages? Feb 10 15:07:54 yep Feb 10 15:08:05 good, no need for reversing them Feb 10 15:08:13 no ETA for actually seeing them in the repos Feb 10 15:08:19 but it should mean that i can start shipping w/ less concern Feb 10 15:08:32 so I finally may get my beloved tnan_fi_home on maemo5 as well ;-P Feb 10 15:08:34 tybollt / hrw : could i get you to try my package? Feb 10 15:08:41 timeless_mbp: get it on paper with proper stamps and signs Feb 10 15:08:47 tana_fi_home_thumb Feb 10 15:08:49 timeless_mbp: en-gb it was? Feb 10 15:08:53 timeless_mbp: at your disposal sire. Feb 10 15:08:53 sure Feb 10 15:09:04 how? Feb 10 15:09:08 timeless_mbp: but what I have to check? Feb 10 15:09:11 and really Feb 10 15:09:29 DocScrutinizer: in real world - 15nW gives you 4m - to a good reciever - on a clear channel Feb 10 15:09:31 * hrw monitors dbus on n900 with 3 tools now Feb 10 15:09:36 "try my package"... I have to try real hard for that not to sound like ... eww ;) Feb 10 15:09:49 heh Feb 10 15:09:54 anyway how? Feb 10 15:10:03 i'll give instructions in the other channel Feb 10 15:10:13 but testing is basically anything/everything from the platform Feb 10 15:10:21 sure Feb 10 15:10:33 a colleague and i recently discovered a bug in the official string selection that we believe was a 1.1 regression Feb 10 15:10:39 it took us a couple of months to notice Feb 10 15:10:50 o_O Feb 10 15:10:55 SpeedEvil: would you agree this to be the maximun interference range as well? Feb 10 15:10:59 (it wasn't my fault, the app people neglected to inform the localization team about the new string, so no one had it!) Feb 10 15:10:59 no Feb 10 15:11:27 timeless_mbp: my english is not british (nor american) Feb 10 15:11:30 uhuh Feb 10 15:11:33 timeless_mbp: not looking to place guilt - I prefer pragmatism - if it can be fix, let's do it :) Feb 10 15:11:36 hrw: well, you'll have to pick one :) Feb 10 15:11:44 tybollt: my package has a fix for it now :) Feb 10 15:11:50 hrw: that's good Feb 10 15:11:59 but the point is that testing is really "whatever you can / might think to do" Feb 10 15:12:07 bonus points for things that _i'm_ less likely to do Feb 10 15:12:07 ACK Feb 10 15:12:09 DocScrutinizer: the power at which you can interfere with a clearly reieved signal at the margins of coverage is some 50dB weaker than the power required to be clearly recieved Feb 10 15:12:27 that reminds me one thing Feb 10 15:12:31 timeless_mbp: sorry, don't know you well enough to tell what you may or may not do ;P Feb 10 15:12:34 ~curse rtcomm developers badly Feb 10 15:12:35 May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, rtcomm developers badly ! Feb 10 15:12:43 SpeedEvil: citation needed Feb 10 15:12:53 tybollt: fair enough :) Feb 10 15:12:53 DocScrutinizer: see above pdf link Feb 10 15:13:32 SpeedEvil: for all I know the S/N margin for FM is as low as 6dB Feb 10 15:14:02 DocScrutinizer: not if you want the audio to be nondisturbed. Feb 10 15:14:13 compared to AM where your 50dB figure may be correct Feb 10 15:14:14 DocScrutinizer: 6dB won't cut it in that case. Feb 10 15:14:39 DocScrutinizer: anyway - see the BBC PDF for cites of all these figures Feb 10 15:14:50 k Feb 10 15:14:53 http://www.ofcom.org.uk/radiocomms/ifi/licensing/classes/rlans/technical/tests/srdtests.pdf also Feb 10 15:16:20 Bear in mind also that this is weak signal performance. The reciever is barely on the cliff of 'full quieting'. Feb 10 15:23:30 amigadave, I was wrong, I did find the power Feb 10 15:23:39 amigadave, You haz sysops Feb 10 15:24:25 oh noes Feb 10 15:24:27 * tybollt hides Feb 10 15:25:39 dneary: muhuhaha Feb 10 15:25:42 i mean, thanks Feb 10 15:25:49 uh oh... Feb 10 15:25:53 amigadave, You're scaring me Feb 10 15:26:14 there's an undo button for this thing, right? ;) Feb 10 15:26:47 \o/ end of the world... run to the hills... Feb 10 15:30:05 SpeedEvil: ok. anyway 250uW would have been much better than 15nW Feb 10 15:30:26 And interfered over a very significant distance. Feb 10 15:30:40 someone know how i can edit the partition scheme on maemo5 (n900) ? i mean i want to mount an microSD card as swap instead mmcblk0p3, but of course "/etc/fstab" is discared at boot (replaced). So where does the swap mount occur ? Feb 10 15:30:57 cpasjuste: you can find out where fstab is made Feb 10 15:31:06 grep -r fstab /etc/*/8 Feb 10 15:31:09 */* Feb 10 15:31:29 are you folks plotting how to interfer w/ the neighbourinoes radio received at his breakfasttable or sommat? :) Feb 10 15:31:31 good idea :) Feb 10 15:31:40 thanks speedevil Feb 10 15:31:47 this 32gb mmc is so so so slow Feb 10 15:32:09 cool : /etc/event.d/rcS-late: # Generate fstab and mount /home Feb 10 15:33:35 tybollt: no - I'm attempting to point out why a powerful fmtx isn't always good. Feb 10 15:34:53 so for some reason i cant log in using the icq telepathy plugin. when i tap sign in, it takes a moment and then just shows the list again, and on my icq account it says "not logged in" Feb 10 15:35:10 hmm Feb 10 15:35:24 if I delete contacts from MSN Haze in the phoenbook will they be gone from my MSN too? Feb 10 15:36:03 and whats the difference between msn and msn haze? Feb 10 15:36:32 that's also a good question :P Feb 10 15:36:39 * Arif just installed the protocol plugin too Feb 10 15:37:11 SpeedEvil: s/good/legal/ mind you ;) Feb 10 15:38:00 SpeedEvil: in .se any type of FM tx not licensed by the government was a criminal offence up until just a few years ago. Feb 10 15:38:11 from the POV of someone trying to play mp3 on their radio - 250uW would be great. Feb 10 15:38:33 now there are heavy restrictions as to how much your device is allowed to output Feb 10 15:38:35 From the POV of someone in the next room listening to a FM station on the edge of its coverage - it would completely wipe it out Feb 10 15:41:31 yeah, if the one listening to MP3 was so stupid to adjust his FM-TX next to the weak station Feb 10 15:42:24 lol Feb 10 15:42:32 from the POV my injecting "THIS IS GOD SPEAKING SEND ALL YOUR MONEY TO TYBOLLT!" into the old folks homes radios I guess 250uw might be a good start but not all the way there ;) Feb 10 15:44:55 DocScrutinizer: and if there is no other 'free' frequency of lower power? Feb 10 15:45:15 What right does the owner of the mp3 thingy have to override others listening choices? Feb 10 15:45:31 Does Maemo have a package manager similar to Synaptic Packagemanager found in Ubuntu? Feb 10 15:46:12 you mean like HAM? Feb 10 15:46:17 I saw some thread that is uses repositorys Feb 10 15:46:27 I don't know... Feb 10 15:46:56 i am a Linux dude trying to figure out Maemo.. Feb 10 15:47:15 SpeedEvil: for all the innocent listeners to public radio broadcast that *might* be affected by this problem, it's of at least same concern to them when the rogue MP3 listening user just pumps up the volume Feb 10 15:47:54 In Ubuntu i use synaptic to update and install programs Feb 10 15:47:57 which right he has to do _that_ either ? Feb 10 15:48:05 sandman: there's an "application manager" browse the menus Feb 10 15:48:37 DocScrutinizer: again, it is probably _illegal_ moral or not... Feb 10 15:48:40 ok.. that uses repositorys? Feb 10 15:48:41 sandman: apt-get works, the "preffered" user method is through the appmanager (more like ubuntu app manager than synaptic) Feb 10 15:48:58 yes Feb 10 15:49:06 cool Feb 10 15:49:26 sandman: yes, the app manager is basically a wrapper around apt w/ some spinkles and jelly on it Feb 10 15:49:34 sprinkles Feb 10 15:49:37 lol cool Feb 10 15:49:42 tybollt: it's obviously not illegal, judging by the "deviceA" "deviceB" mentioned in the whitepaper SpeedEvil quoted Feb 10 15:49:53 ehr Feb 10 15:49:53 why is there dpkg installed then? Feb 10 15:50:00 doc: missed that link, sorry :S Feb 10 15:50:11 There are existing laws on noise pollution Feb 10 15:50:14 hummmmmm Feb 10 15:50:25 i'm pretty sure i'll end up using Maemo in a couple of weeks then ;) Feb 10 15:50:31 sandman: eg. http://thenokiablog.com/2009/10/27/maemo-extras-nokia-n900-applications/ Feb 10 15:50:47 i succesfully copied files from my n900, created a rootfs image and flashed it back Feb 10 15:50:48 sar3th: one does not exclude the other HOWEVER.... if you weant nookla support for your dev - use app manager... Feb 10 15:51:10 hmk Feb 10 15:51:14 but the desktop got broken :O Feb 10 15:51:15 just wondering Feb 10 15:51:16 SpeedEvil: that's what I'm hinting at here Feb 10 15:51:20 the _law_ Feb 10 15:51:21 dpkg is to install .deb files much like .exe on windows Feb 10 15:51:24 moral implications aside Feb 10 15:51:49 now there is only one virtual desktop and if i try to enable more, it just refuses to work Feb 10 15:53:43 tybollt: and I'm just saying laws are insane. Look at PLC blasting out at several 100mW over a whole AC installation of a building used as giant TX antenna. Wideband Feb 10 15:54:17 tybollt: and then they sweat it on 250uW for a narrowband FM-TX Feb 10 15:55:07 A range of 300m for a personal FM TX is insane. Feb 10 15:55:17 Which is approximately what 250uW would give you Feb 10 15:56:02 SpeedEvil: that's not what the paper you linked to is suggesting Feb 10 15:57:43 With a 50nW transmitter - to a radio on an interference free channel - you get 8m range. Feb 10 15:57:58 I'll quote judge dredd on this one... Feb 10 15:58:04 sqrt(250000/50)*8 =300 Feb 10 15:58:05 https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8972 ? Feb 10 15:58:06 Bug 8972: history - UI back button differs from swipe from right Feb 10 15:59:29 wow enigma on the n900 is totally brilliant Feb 10 15:59:37 gouverneur: i noticed that, it's here too Feb 10 15:59:41 what a nice adaption Feb 10 15:59:47 Shapeshifter: enigma?? Feb 10 15:59:58 the encryption device? Feb 10 15:59:59 sar3th: yeah a friend made me aware yesterday Feb 10 16:00:17 sar3th: no an open source oxyd clone Feb 10 16:00:24 oh. okay Feb 10 16:00:39 hi is there any one time generator working on maemo? Feb 10 16:00:52 SpeedEvil: what is the default TX? Feb 10 16:01:06 bigon: ? "one time generator"? Feb 10 16:01:26 onetime *password* generator Feb 10 16:01:40 gouverneur: 50nW or 15nW according to region setting I think Feb 10 16:02:09 bigon: check OPIE Feb 10 16:03:01 onetime passwords in everything Feb 10 16:03:49 does x-terminal obey .Xdefaults or where can i customize it? Feb 10 16:04:36 DocScrutinizer: thx Feb 10 16:05:18 Shapeshifter: no or depends... Feb 10 16:05:32 Shapeshifter: what are you looking for and which term? Feb 10 16:06:06 gouverneur: for the default ash, different bgcolor and such Feb 10 16:06:31 Shapeshifter: for n900? Feb 10 16:06:40 yes Feb 10 16:07:01 Shapeshifter: do you need the file? or where to change it? Feb 10 16:07:04 any reason why msn haze plugin keeps reporting network error? Feb 10 16:07:05 I guess its ash in busybox isnt it Feb 10 16:07:07 Shapeshifter, osso-xterm is based on gnome-terminal and libvte, and doesn't use X resources for configuration Feb 10 16:07:17 it uses gconf instead Feb 10 16:07:39 mgedmin: what doesnt use gconf? Feb 10 16:08:00 is that a rhetorical question? because many apps don't use gconf Feb 10 16:08:05 yes Feb 10 16:08:18 mh okay. are there any other terms? i think urxvt ist available yet? Feb 10 16:08:19 well apps... Feb 10 16:08:46 I haven't heard about any other hildonized terminal emulators Feb 10 16:08:51 urxvt would be nice with urxvtd! Feb 10 16:08:57 no Feb 10 16:09:02 mrxvt would be nice Feb 10 16:09:09 and multiwindow desktop... Feb 10 16:09:20 a tabbed terminal emulator would be _the_killer_app Feb 10 16:09:34 ill look into compiling urxvt for the n900. shouldnt be hard Feb 10 16:09:35 dunno, not a lot of screen space for tabs Feb 10 16:09:42 hello? any help? Feb 10 16:09:57 tybollt: screen Feb 10 16:10:02 web browser isn't using tabs Feb 10 16:10:07 adalal: no Feb 10 16:10:20 adalal: works here Feb 10 16:10:33 adalal: Protip "hello? any help?" sounds extremely rude to many people. Feb 10 16:11:04 Shapeshifter: I keep saying this over and over, screen < mrxvt/tabbed terminals Feb 10 16:11:10 Lumpio-: i do understand that, but the last 3 days i've been asking for help, noone seems to be answering at all... just gets to me at times... Feb 10 16:11:29 jacekowski: would be nice if... Feb 10 16:11:43 as somebody said Feb 10 16:11:46 are there supposed to be advanced settings under the haze plugin, because my doens't have any. Feb 10 16:11:47 there isn't much space for tabs Feb 10 16:12:00 using that app switcher thingy seems to be better idea Feb 10 16:12:11 just add some sort of grouping feature to it Feb 10 16:12:16 adalal: no Feb 10 16:12:26 thanks Feb 10 16:13:08 adalal: might have a .conf file somewhere. Feb 10 16:13:20 for advanced settings Feb 10 16:13:40 * satmd found out that opensync on gentoo currently is more than a pita (mist 0.2x/0.3x api changes) Feb 10 16:13:50 *midst Feb 10 16:14:01 tybollt: matter of taste and usage patterns really Feb 10 16:21:38 anyone tried to compile a gcc for the n900? Feb 10 16:22:01 Shapeshifter: bingo Feb 10 16:22:38 sar3th: I'd love to see gcc, make and the whole enchilada - but doubt upstream supports that :) Feb 10 16:22:38 tybollt: very delayed pong, sorry Feb 10 16:22:59 sar3th: why? Feb 10 16:23:05 * ShadowJK contirbutes to the noise Feb 10 16:23:13 * timeless_mbp got buzzed Feb 10 16:23:17 moo shadowjk, thresh Feb 10 16:23:31 timeless_mbp: i'll be on vacation for a bit and i hoped to be able to devel ^^ Feb 10 16:23:53 * thresh waves Feb 10 16:24:38 http://pastebin.com/d36dd4bdf anyone a idea? Feb 10 16:24:51 I really like the Marina theme developed for Mer, the background isn't to my taste, but with a different background, the theme is realy nice :) Feb 10 16:28:28 WZhang: you seem to lack python, and it seems it can't be installed Feb 10 16:28:48 well, python is installed - it seems to not find the packages it needs Feb 10 16:29:04 efl or something, they seem to be in the dev repositorys Feb 10 16:29:49 well, i'm still a noob, sorry WZhang, i don't know :( Feb 10 16:30:06 i had that error before: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=307333&postcount=388 - so i did that: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=307598&postcount=392 Feb 10 16:30:32 no more errors at update / upgrade now (after autoclean) but somehow it still does not work Feb 10 16:31:53 huzzah Feb 10 16:31:58 spotify going down now? Feb 10 16:32:16 tybollt, really? Feb 10 16:32:33 warner is apparently breaking w/ spotify Feb 10 16:32:36 :/ Feb 10 16:32:56 w/ warner out - who is to say that the others will stay? Feb 10 16:33:32 http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/8507885.stm Feb 10 16:34:31 WZhang: it would help if you pasted the english version of the error :) try : "LC_ALL=C apt-get install bluemaemo" Feb 10 16:34:56 lizardo: already figured out and changed device language :P Feb 10 16:35:03 ShadowJK: a user yourself? Feb 10 16:35:05 *that Feb 10 16:35:11 tybollt, nope Feb 10 16:35:28 sar3th: i think you can install gcc from some repository Feb 10 16:35:35 so i don't see why you'd go off and build it... Feb 10 16:35:39 yup, gcc is in the repos Feb 10 16:35:52 it is?blimey Feb 10 16:35:55 must get then Feb 10 16:36:11 tybollt: sorry, my latency is bad :) Feb 10 16:36:14 tybollt, someone I know (computer illiterates) bought a computer the other day, and also a "setup service" where the store removed the bundled crapware and installed the software they wanted. THey asked for spotify but the store said it's illegal :D Feb 10 16:37:04 timeless_mbp: well, i want to kow how to build software and package it for the n900 Feb 10 16:37:31 apt-get install builddep something Feb 10 16:37:39 or apt-get install build-essentail Feb 10 16:38:12 http://pastebin.com/m1ffe44c6 <- english now :P Feb 10 16:38:38 timeless_mbp: on scratchbox? Feb 10 16:38:47 wait Feb 10 16:38:56 are you installing stuff on your n900 or in a scratchbox? Feb 10 16:38:59 * timeless_mbp assumed n900 Feb 10 16:39:17 i want to install stuff on my n900, but compile it using scratchbox Feb 10 16:39:22 and i want to dev on the n900 Feb 10 16:39:37 but compiling Qt with the n900 is NOT what i think will be fast Feb 10 16:39:43 Here's an idea... the n900 is slow... Feb 10 16:39:50 thus, i want to make pre-built binaries for that Feb 10 16:40:05 sar3th: well, in theory you can install qt4-dev onto your n900 Feb 10 16:40:11 although i certainly wouldn't :) Feb 10 16:40:12 Whatever your problem is, maybe you could solve it by just mounting a disk from the n900 over the network within the scratchbox environment and compiling 'on' the n900 Feb 10 16:41:09 ScribbleJ: nice idea, but then i have to leave my n900 on my pc while it compiles, which i don't want to, as it should compile when i'm away ;) Feb 10 16:45:27 having a problem with the qwerty assy Feb 10 17:14:22 gtg, bbl Feb 10 17:17:16 Evening Feb 10 17:19:00 muu Feb 10 17:19:43 hi. is there any way to run Google Maps mobile on the N900? Feb 10 17:20:14 you mean the android thing? Feb 10 17:20:16 no Feb 10 17:20:50 Android, S60... Feb 10 17:21:00 chx: Yes. They have got a web app. Feb 10 17:21:15 you mean the regular maps.google.com website...? Feb 10 17:21:23 can't you run that piece of software from VMware that allows you to run VMs? Feb 10 17:21:30 chx: try latitude app Feb 10 17:21:49 Arkenoi: it is not a lattitude app Feb 10 17:22:07 Arkenoi: It is Google Maps Mobile, with latitude being a function of the overall app Feb 10 17:22:55 RST38h, dos not matter, it does two things i need: latitude update and runs web app in proper mode. Feb 10 17:23:03 http://maemo.org/packages/view/googlelatitude/ this? Feb 10 17:23:31 heh Feb 10 17:23:39 i am almost satisfied with it, the only annoying things are that zoom is not handy and maps are not cached Feb 10 17:24:10 chx: i think yes Feb 10 17:26:46 thanks Feb 10 17:39:23 hmm Feb 10 17:39:40 anyone know how to keep MSN Messenger contacts on the PC but delete them from the phone? Feb 10 17:40:05 burn the phone? Feb 10 17:40:19 sounds plausible :P Feb 10 17:40:49 * Arif throws a burning phone at cehteh Feb 10 17:40:58 * cehteh ducks Feb 10 17:41:17 Woo. Feb 10 17:41:22 Found my light-meter. Feb 10 17:42:04 How accurate is the one in the N900? Feb 10 17:42:26 dunno Feb 10 17:42:34 I was going to do some tests on that Feb 10 17:42:36 GeneralAntilles, 5MP I think Feb 10 17:42:38 :) Feb 10 17:42:39 and the cam performance Feb 10 17:42:40 is it normal for mafw-dbus-wrapper to use ~15% cpu while playing music? Feb 10 17:42:42 varies with finger grease and dust on it :P Feb 10 17:42:48 mtd: yes Feb 10 17:42:49 the 5MP is a lie! Feb 10 17:42:55 jophish, light sensor. :P Feb 10 17:43:07 SpeedEvil: huh? Feb 10 17:43:32 cehteh: The lens is not large enough in diameter to resolve 5MP at optical wavelengths Feb 10 17:43:54 Meaning you just get more noise, not more detail. Feb 10 17:44:26 what has that to do with the diameter of the lens? .. i wont argue that the lens is not good enough, but diameter is hardly a problem Feb 10 17:44:32 cehteh: ok Feb 10 17:44:46 anyways they camera is quite good for a phone cam Feb 10 17:44:49 cehteh: 1.22*wavelength / diameter gives you the resolving power of an optical system (in radians) Feb 10 17:45:12 * Arif finds the LED flashlight app more useful than the camera itself Feb 10 17:45:18 :D Feb 10 17:45:38 cehteh: the diameter of the lens - 1.8mm - divided by the field of view gives you a number of resolvable pixels of some 2MP IIRC Feb 10 17:45:38 yes but the wavelength ins in some hundedreds of nanometers scale for visible light Feb 10 17:45:50 Sure,. Feb 10 17:46:29 1.22*500nm/1.8mm = a bit more than half a milliradian IIRC Feb 10 17:46:45 no doubt that the lens is too bad for 5mp .. but on the other hand noise and jpeg compression will do the rest ... Feb 10 17:47:17 well mod your cam .. add slr objectives :) Feb 10 17:47:58 so .. question: whats the pinout of the old nokia chargers? (the ones you plug into this adapter) Feb 10 17:48:04 Ok. Feb 10 17:48:22 At 1m - the flashlight brightness is ~15lux Feb 10 17:48:30 3.5mm has 3 contacts? the outer prolly just ground? Feb 10 17:48:59 the flash has a quite broad flood angle .. Feb 10 17:49:39 2 contacts Feb 10 17:49:53 i see 3 from looking at it Feb 10 17:50:11 well i dont know maybe just the connector at the adapter has three Feb 10 17:50:23 middle pin and 2 rings Feb 10 17:50:23 Oh it's just 2 on the ground for added reliability Feb 10 17:50:24 the screen peaks at maybe 2 Feb 10 17:50:30 which is more than I thought Feb 10 17:50:51 ShadowJK: ah ok thanks .. you know about polarity? Feb 10 17:51:15 I would guess that center is positive Feb 10 17:51:37 btw, the spec is available Feb 10 17:51:50 uhm where? Feb 10 17:52:09 http://www.forum.nokia.com/info/sw.nokia.com/id/3378ff2b-4016-42b9-9118-d59e4313a521/Nokia_2-mm_DC_Charging_Interface_Specification_v1_2_en.pdf.html Feb 10 17:52:18 and why has micro-usb 5 connectors and not 4 .. well thats resolvable :P Feb 10 17:52:27 2mm.. 3.5mm can be many different things :/ Feb 10 17:52:32 yes Feb 10 17:52:45 well 2mm is ok for me too Feb 10 17:52:59 cehteh, 5th is for OTG. Feb 10 17:53:03 just need one of them ... for the bike dynamo adapter Feb 10 17:53:11 GeneralAntilles: what does it carry? Feb 10 17:53:20 Grounded or floating Feb 10 17:53:37 Depends on the cable. Feb 10 17:53:50 Where can I find the SDK for Maemo 5? (I need gcc,make,etc) Feb 10 17:54:01 Wizzup, Google? Feb 10 17:54:08 maemo.org click on development.. Feb 10 17:54:09 http://www.google.com/search?ie=utf8&oe=utf8&q=maemo+5+sdk Feb 10 17:54:22 google first hit too eh Feb 10 17:54:26 GeneralAntilles: hmm...I was browing repositories.maemo.org Feb 10 18:00:34 300mV ripple from the charger.. duh crazy Feb 10 18:03:05 hmmm...tempting...how much can I break by adding maemo-extras-testing and installing things from there? Feb 10 18:03:13 (n900) Feb 10 18:03:42 my n900 is my main phone, now, so it has a different SLA than the n810, which was just tablet ;) Feb 10 18:04:17 Testing is GENERALLY reasonably safe. Feb 10 18:04:17 with being a bit careful, not too much, try to avoid really new stuff or daemons Feb 10 18:04:41 programs which are one-shot crash at worst .. Feb 10 18:04:44 no GeneralAntilles testing specific packages whilst talking to developers and listening to friends is generally safe Feb 10 18:04:49 but some bad daemon may drain battery Feb 10 18:04:52 but still not to be used lightly Feb 10 18:05:22 What drains battery is not generally well understood by developers either :) Feb 10 18:05:28 http://maemo.org/packages/repository/qa/fremantle_extras-testing/ Feb 10 18:05:36 use the ratings there to guage Feb 10 18:05:52 and add your remarks/feedback about testing criterea to help Feb 10 18:06:22 so higher karma means less likely to break? Feb 10 18:06:28 uhm this charger spec is crazy Feb 10 18:06:38 cehteh, what about it? :) Feb 10 18:06:40 cehteh: what charger spec Feb 10 18:06:50 SpeedEvil: http://www.forum.nokia.com/info/sw.nokia.com/id/3378ff2b-4016-42b9-9118-d59e4313a521/Nokia_2-mm_DC_Charging_Interface_Specification_v1_2_en.pdf.html Feb 10 18:07:17 veggen, higher votes mean more people have tested and confirmed different aspects of it Feb 10 18:08:03 ShadowJK: i thought i could just add some rectifier, a cap and maybe a protecting zener diode and feed that to the charge adapter Feb 10 18:08:04 ok, which in general means less likely to break ;) Feb 10 18:08:14 (from bike hub dynamo) Feb 10 18:08:33 Veggen, your testing run might be the first to find a break! Feb 10 18:08:35 cehteh: why crazy? Feb 10 18:08:59 see page 17 .. charger identification by voltage Feb 10 18:09:04 lcuk: oh sure. I understand the general risks about not-so-tested software. Feb 10 18:09:11 cehteh, also note the current limits :) Feb 10 18:09:33 and there are some other no-go voltage/amperage areas Feb 10 18:09:34 yes Feb 10 18:09:34 Veggen, sure, just trying to help you decide to break your SLA :) Feb 10 18:10:00 The reason for current limits is that the input power is fed directly to the battery mostly unfiltered, through a slow PWM (slow as in 1 hz) Feb 10 18:10:09 If the current is too strong the battery can't take it Feb 10 18:10:32 cehteh: for USB - you just apply 5V Feb 10 18:11:38 cehteh, in my experience with various devices with 3.5mm and 2mm ports, their own voltage measurement wasn't all that accurate with regard to the voltage and current windows :/ Feb 10 18:11:42 SpeedEvil: since a hub dynamo is a quite dirty source i thought i could recycle the charger adapter from the package to give it some treatment (after simple rectification) Feb 10 18:12:33 getting 5V (and nothing else) from the dynamo wont be easy either Feb 10 18:13:02 a linerar regulator has too much loss Feb 10 18:13:17 and wont kick in when driving slowly Feb 10 18:13:30 use one of the many energy harvester modules to feed a battery or very large cap Feb 10 18:14:44 then it takes ages to get to the working point Feb 10 18:14:46 (charging the cap) Feb 10 18:14:48 Anyone worked with sophia-sip client??? Feb 10 18:15:02 (looks like it is sending a malformed invite) Feb 10 18:15:42 i posted the bumm E-Werk yesterday .. but its expensive, i thought i can try by myself Feb 10 18:16:00 cehteh, in practice when voltage drops the phone will consume less.... at 3.5V it'll eat nothing Feb 10 18:16:04 SpeedEvil: http://www.bumm.de/docu/361e.htm Feb 10 18:16:07 but hopefully still consider the charging documented Feb 10 18:16:13 uh Feb 10 18:16:21 but hopefully still consider the charger connected Feb 10 18:16:35 cehteh: you don't care if it takes time to start Feb 10 18:16:40 ShadowJK: well a rectifier and cap isnt expensive .. i prolly just give it a try Feb 10 18:16:58 cehteh: with a large 8V2 zener in parallel Feb 10 18:17:11 9.3V ... Feb 10 18:17:16 8V2 Feb 10 18:17:26 you don't want to go anywhere near 9.3 Feb 10 18:17:32 well bikes have 6v protection already .. (in germany at least) Feb 10 18:18:15 hola, tengo un N900 que no le funciona el gps (no encuentra señal) hay que activar o instalar algo? Feb 10 18:18:20 just thinking .. 6Vx1.44 ... the zener will barf Feb 10 18:18:30 ioeee: no Feb 10 18:18:42 pero nostoros no hablamos español Feb 10 18:18:52 cehteh: not a large one Feb 10 18:18:54 (but the dynamo doesnt give a pure sine wave, and not to forget the loss on the rectifier) Feb 10 18:19:10 lo siento pero no hablo ingles Feb 10 18:19:12 cehteh: the right way to do this is with a peak power tracker - but that's a bit complex Feb 10 18:19:23 SpeedEvil: with barf i mean heat the energy away while i rather want to use it Feb 10 18:19:25 ioeee: podria usar translate.google.com ? Feb 10 18:19:38 por supuesto Feb 10 18:19:48 cehteh: if there is more energy than the phone can handle - you need to store it in a battery or throw it away Feb 10 18:20:03 ioeee: bueno Feb 10 18:20:07 yeah or use it for the lighting Feb 10 18:20:19 cehteh: wander over to ##electronics Feb 10 18:20:21 * SpeedEvil is afk Feb 10 18:20:29 ioeee: it can take perhaps 10 minutes standing outside in an open space on a clear day to get a lock Feb 10 18:20:35 (gps lock) Feb 10 18:20:42 must be hardware problem? Feb 10 18:20:45 (standing still) Feb 10 18:20:52 well i just try it sometime next .. no biking weather here anyways Feb 10 18:21:45 it is always a biking weather Feb 10 18:21:52 if you haven't actually stood still for 10 minutes, outside in an open area (not in a major city with lots of tall buildings), on a day where there aren't clouds in the sky Feb 10 18:21:59 then you don't really know that it isn't working Feb 10 18:22:17 I have tried on several occasions and in different places and nothing Feb 10 18:23:01 * thresh rode five days ago at -15°C and it was alrite Feb 10 18:23:02 http://www.mugen-power-batteries.com/nokia/nokia-n900/mugen-power-nokia-n900-2400mah-extended-replacement-battery-with-battery-door.html# Feb 10 18:23:12 looks ugly Feb 10 18:23:13 ioeee: do you have a SIM active in your n900? Feb 10 18:23:19 (very) Feb 10 18:23:27 yes, vodafone-es Feb 10 18:23:53 finally, finally, I've got the phone of my dreams Feb 10 18:24:03 I've waited for this day soooo long Feb 10 18:24:12 ToiletOil, cool, i always wanted a nokia 3210 Feb 10 18:24:22 timeless_mbp, is a problem? Feb 10 18:24:24 lcuk, address please Feb 10 18:24:28 try opening settings, in the connectivity section you should see gps and location Feb 10 18:24:33 LinuxCode, pardon Feb 10 18:24:35 (it has a satellite dish icon) Feb 10 18:24:45 lcuk, i have one in my draw, if you are that keen lol Feb 10 18:24:57 i have [x] GPS, GPS device = Internal GPS Feb 10 18:25:07 lol and i bet the battery is still charged some years after you put it there Feb 10 18:25:08 [x] Use A-GPS and Reverse-Geocoding Feb 10 18:25:21 ive got one wired up to my laser Feb 10 18:25:22 (the spanish is obviously different) Feb 10 18:25:22 lcuk, of course Feb 10 18:25:27 and its lasted for about 3 months Feb 10 18:25:46 * LinuxCode is always read for nuclear war Feb 10 18:25:50 ready Feb 10 18:25:53 I have internal GPS activated and deactivated using wifi Feb 10 18:25:56 everything charged and ready... Feb 10 18:25:58 lol Feb 10 18:26:14 ToiletOil, so you got yourself a N900 huh ? Feb 10 18:26:21 * LinuxCode will also get one soon-ish Feb 10 18:26:32 ToiletOil, I understand your sentiment though Feb 10 18:26:41 I am still very happy with my n810 Feb 10 18:26:51 despite it not having 3g/umts Feb 10 18:26:53 timeless, i noticed something in belgium, agps seemed to be happy given *any* connection, even the local adhoc one i have configured that gives it 0 information about location Feb 10 18:27:18 lcuk, you went to fosdem amte ? Feb 10 18:27:21 lcuk: i really don't understand how the black magic for this stuff works Feb 10 18:27:22 mate* Feb 10 18:27:25 i didnt do emperical tests, but it stopped moaning about a connection and got a lock Feb 10 18:27:50 yeah LinuxCode Feb 10 18:27:53 lcuk: i think if it has a cache of data it can use it even if it doesn't have everything Feb 10 18:27:57 meh I wish I had known Feb 10 18:28:04 that would have been the 4th reason to go Feb 10 18:28:05 yeah timeless Feb 10 18:28:06 ;-[ Feb 10 18:28:20 and Nokia was giving away 4 or so N900 as well Feb 10 18:28:33 and having a dodgy connection sends it on a different pathway to having no connection Feb 10 18:28:41 or at least thats my impression Feb 10 18:29:23 lol LinuxCode judging by the amount of n900s on show all weekend i dont think there were many without them already Feb 10 18:29:28 they were everywhere Feb 10 18:29:47 lcuk, exactly Feb 10 18:29:55 more chances to win one Feb 10 18:29:56 lcuk: photos? Feb 10 18:30:00 see! its a secret ploy! Feb 10 18:30:09 for me to have gotten one... Feb 10 18:30:13 if I had gone ;-[ Feb 10 18:30:14 timeless, photos of what, people with n900s? Feb 10 18:30:18 they were just all over Feb 10 18:30:20 this was fosdem? Feb 10 18:30:22 yeah Feb 10 18:30:31 maybe its just me looking closer Feb 10 18:30:32 * timeless_mbp was sick in paris instead :/ Feb 10 18:30:39 :( Feb 10 18:31:01 lets face it, its the only really cool 3g linux device out there Feb 10 18:31:02 imho Feb 10 18:31:03 im glad i didnt drink much coke whilst there Feb 10 18:31:05 http://liqbase.net/liq.belgium.coke.20100208_018.jpg Feb 10 18:31:19 * LinuxCode looks Feb 10 18:31:31 hahaha Feb 10 18:31:49 i bet that machine has the lowest sales of any coke machine on the planet Feb 10 18:31:56 menaquin piss or whatever its called Feb 10 18:32:09 https://www.alwaysinnovating.com/touchbook/ Feb 10 18:32:21 Maemo is "on the way", eh? Feb 10 18:32:26 manneken pis Feb 10 18:32:39 lcuk, think of the benefits Feb 10 18:32:46 you would always have a full bottle Feb 10 18:32:48 rofl Feb 10 18:34:55 LinuxCode, yeah but you dont normally have to do a handstand to get a drink Feb 10 18:35:04 hahah Feb 10 18:35:32 GAN900, probably the Chinese version of maemo :D Feb 10 18:35:42 Hehe Feb 10 18:36:28 Maemo-on-OMAP more likely, but only if they get omap-pm working Feb 10 18:42:18 * ioeee se despide y cierra Feb 10 18:43:32 timeless_mbp, thanks, bye o/ Feb 10 18:43:39 ioeee: good luck Feb 10 18:58:16 so I'm too lazy to flash released sw Feb 10 18:58:36 does sip:foo@bar do anything interesting when given to the browser in urlbar and hit enter? Feb 10 19:00:15 sp3000: no? Feb 10 19:00:56 k Feb 10 19:06:33 * RST38h yawns and stretches Feb 10 19:13:23 http://worldtv.com/israel_in_eurovision/ Feb 10 19:13:47 http://worldtv.com/israel_in_eurovision/ Feb 10 19:17:49 aief: what's that? Feb 10 19:18:25 he left Feb 10 19:18:52 spam... Feb 10 19:21:05 how can i change the date separator without changing the device language? Feb 10 19:21:25 i want en_uk, but dd.mm.yyyy Feb 10 19:23:19 should be reversed Feb 10 19:24:32 I'm confused... I just want gcc on my phone, and the sdk doesn't seem to be the answer Feb 10 19:24:54 what's your opinion about Google Buzz? Feb 10 19:27:12 what's Google Buzz? Feb 10 19:27:13 i have a feeling microb is broken on my n900 it doesnt load any pages. net is working, i can browse using midori Feb 10 19:28:09 Shapeshifter: isn't it proxy configuration? Feb 10 19:37:03 Question: Can I safely delete MyDocs/Trash-1000 folder? Feb 10 19:38:10 Has anyone tried installing an SSH server and/or samba on N900? Feb 10 19:38:35 RST38h, assuming there isn't something you want, yes Feb 10 19:38:36 ssh server sure Feb 10 19:38:39 * MohammadAG deleted it Feb 10 19:38:43 it's in extras IIRC Feb 10 19:38:52 samba no - rsync yes Feb 10 19:39:00 MiXu-: not samba, but I installed the cifs kernel module Feb 10 19:39:42 SpeedEvil: Have you noticed a change in the battery consumption after installing it? Feb 10 19:39:45 Mohammad: Goood =) Feb 10 19:40:00 I'm being cautious about anything that has it's own daemon. Feb 10 19:40:16 MiXu-: no, as I installed it minutes after poweron. Feb 10 19:40:25 =) Feb 10 19:40:26 I can say that battery life is >1 day even with it on Feb 10 19:40:53 I haven't seen it doing nasty things - requiring lots of wakeups say or CPU Feb 10 19:41:04 ok, thanks Feb 10 19:42:10 Heh... I have got ~/.opera dir Feb 10 19:42:13 What the hell? Feb 10 19:42:23 Same question to microlith, have you noticed cifs draining the battery more than expected? Feb 10 19:42:38 ptlo: nope Feb 10 19:44:16 btw, isnt there some way to switch tasks using the keyboard only? seems like ctrl+<- and then directional keys doesnt woek Feb 10 19:44:32 camerad Feb 10 19:44:41 Shapeshifter: most of places in maemo ignore fact that you have keyboard in device Feb 10 19:45:22 you cannot switch tasks, you cannot scroll lists Feb 10 19:45:36 too often you cannot even scroll by typing first letter Feb 10 19:45:53 but we still use it ;D Feb 10 19:47:12 Hmm, wonder if it's a good idea to add fb over XMPP onto tablet... Feb 10 19:47:38 Will flood my contact book probably =) Feb 10 19:48:03 Hi Feb 10 19:48:54 Mhm...Quake3 is cool but unusable. Anyone figured a way to exit it? :) Feb 10 19:49:02 ctrl-backspace? Feb 10 19:49:05 no Feb 10 19:49:42 camera button? Feb 10 19:49:53 Power button + end current task Feb 10 19:49:58 camera app pops up but does not let me press any other buttons Feb 10 19:50:10 close it Feb 10 19:50:11 Mohammad: power menu pops up but does not let me press any other buttons Feb 10 19:50:17 thresh: close what? Feb 10 19:50:21 camera app :) Feb 10 19:50:31 you'll be switched to 'expose' menu or whatever it is Feb 10 19:50:38 cannot: does not respond to buttons Feb 10 19:50:51 * RST38h sshed in and killed -9 Feb 10 19:51:01 Hardly an easy way to quit game though :) Feb 10 19:51:26 remove battery is quicker Feb 10 19:51:31 you mean clicks? Feb 10 19:51:40 johnsq, not a wise idea Feb 10 19:51:48 johnsq: not here Feb 10 19:52:08 Holding the power button would switch the device off, and it seems better than removing the battery Feb 10 19:52:20 FAT32's a crap filesystem, and Windows users need it Feb 10 19:53:00 SSH rules Feb 10 19:53:04 usb users need it Feb 10 19:53:18 I just hate the apps that people put to the repos and don't even bother to make it possible to exit :D Feb 10 19:53:24 Nothing beats SSH for teeth removal through anal orifice Feb 10 19:53:37 RST38h: =D Feb 10 19:55:10 I am afraid Quake3 will have to go though, at least until someone deweirdifies it Feb 10 19:55:29 is it ioQuake3? Feb 10 19:55:34 cause that didn't work here Feb 10 19:56:04 * MohammadAG wonders if he should install this http://mobilehotspot.garage.maemo.org/ Feb 10 19:56:05 lcuk has cool networking for n900s that can be used for games Feb 10 19:56:45 where do I get angry birds? Feb 10 19:56:51 Ovi Feb 10 19:56:56 ok Feb 10 19:56:56 throw a stone into a tree Feb 10 19:57:03 thanks Feb 10 19:57:08 yw Feb 10 19:57:11 I was trying through application manager Feb 10 19:57:15 lcuk:That is kinda dangerous Feb 10 19:57:29 RST38h, lots of practice Feb 10 19:57:30 yeah, an alligator might fall from the tree and eat you. Feb 10 19:57:33 lcuk: Considering that birdies like to take a shit on launch... Feb 10 19:57:39 longmoooooooooo btw, havent seen you in a bit Feb 10 19:57:50 lcuk: Had to work, sorry... Feb 10 19:57:56 as we all do Feb 10 19:58:06 * lcuk has been vvvvvv busy Feb 10 19:58:29 lcuk: + I just finished watching DrWho 2005-2007 and have not found a decent torrent for 2008-2009 yet Feb 10 19:59:27 * RST38h has to admit it beats all US sf shows, except for Firefly, hands down Feb 10 19:59:28 ugh Feb 10 19:59:53 I can't stand the fricken robot... it looks so amateur-ish Feb 10 19:59:59 fine with me Feb 10 20:00:26 RST38h, way too British for me. Feb 10 20:00:26 dal or whatever it is called Feb 10 20:00:33 eh? Feb 10 20:00:39 General: That is how I like it =) Feb 10 20:00:39 I mean, it's good, but it doesn't beat all US shows. :P Feb 10 20:00:44 RST38h, im just watching 2005 atm Feb 10 20:00:46 dalek Feb 10 20:00:56 and i realised just how good tennant was Feb 10 20:01:03 i used to like eccleston Feb 10 20:01:18 but rose takes the series Feb 10 20:01:24 General: Well it does not beat Firefly, but I see no other contender Feb 10 20:01:41 RST38h: try black books Feb 10 20:01:46 Battlestar Galactica? Feb 10 20:01:50 thresh: checking Feb 10 20:01:57 Farscape (sort of, partially Australian) Feb 10 20:01:57 what is the address for extras-devel repository? Feb 10 20:01:58 General: Generic Baywatch in Space =) Feb 10 20:02:06 RST38h, agreed i general Feb 10 20:02:29 * thresh is a sheer fan of british comedies Feb 10 20:02:29 same as extras but with extras-devel in address instead? Feb 10 20:02:46 as well as beer and pubs Feb 10 20:02:48 General: The usual good vs evil stuff, dumbed down politically correct himor Feb 10 20:03:02 General: Farscape is actually better at this Feb 10 20:03:13 General: But still too prudish Feb 10 20:03:20 Meh Feb 10 20:03:59 Dr Who is just too GOOFY to ever take top slot for em. Feb 10 20:04:11 GOOFY is the word! =) Feb 10 20:04:14 you guys are all wrong, star wars ules them all, the way picard fights the evil daleks with his light sword Feb 10 20:04:19 s/em/me/ Feb 10 20:04:19 GeneralAntilles meant: Dr Who is just too GOOFY to ever take top slot for me. Feb 10 20:04:54 its uk based GeneralAntilles Feb 10 20:05:01 of course you wouldnt get it :p Feb 10 20:05:33 nice To make Facebook Chat available everywhere, we are using the technology Jabber (XMPP), an open messaging protocol supported by most instant messaging software, including iChat, Pidgin, Adium, Miranda and more. Feb 10 20:05:35 lcuk, it's true. Feb 10 20:06:48 GeneralAntilles, what scifi/fantasy stuff comes from your neck of the woods? Feb 10 20:07:47 and no, miami vice doesnt count (tho cool) Feb 10 20:08:22 * LinuxCode dislikes DR Who Feb 10 20:08:34 solely because he is sick and tired of running into blocked roads Feb 10 20:08:46 because they are filming Feb 10 20:09:51 you live on proxima alpha 3 as well then, they were protesting about that for weeks? Feb 10 20:10:10 ? Feb 10 20:10:52 once they needed extras for Dr who and offered passers by £300 or so for an hours work Feb 10 20:10:52 nm, where do they do most filming? Feb 10 20:10:56 lcuk, Babylon 5, Farscape (sort of), Battlestar Galactica, Stark Trek, Futurama, Firefly, etc. Feb 10 20:11:08 lcuk, they did loads around here in Cyncoed Feb 10 20:11:16 * lcuk is ignorant of drwho locations Feb 10 20:11:20 ahhh lc Feb 10 20:11:23 GeneralAntilles, old or new battle star galactica ? Feb 10 20:11:29 LinuxCode, both? Feb 10 20:11:37 GeneralAntilles, :D b5 firefly ftw Feb 10 20:11:44 lcuk, they even did something at my old GPs surgery, as it had moved Feb 10 20:11:51 GeneralAntilles, k Feb 10 20:11:56 * LinuxCode hates remakes Feb 10 20:12:16 if they really do an A-team remake based on Iraq, I will die Feb 10 20:12:28 so stupid Feb 10 20:13:00 of course it is, we know the a team were sent to afghanistan Feb 10 20:13:09 loool Feb 10 20:13:13 ;-p Feb 10 20:13:23 learn to history :p Feb 10 20:13:24 lcuk, Im just sick and tired of all this "US is the best" Feb 10 20:13:41 the old series had a degree of humility about them Feb 10 20:13:51 Hmm, something tells me the N900 could use awesome Google Buzz integration. Feb 10 20:13:56 i.e. "nobody likes to remember vietnam, etc.. Feb 10 20:13:59 meh i kinda think its right, self motivation and confidence is to be commended Feb 10 20:14:13 lcuk, not for a war which shouldnt have happened Feb 10 20:14:21 I still want to see Blair on trial too Feb 10 20:14:27 and I voted for him Feb 10 20:14:28 not that you ar eright Feb 10 20:14:28 lol Feb 10 20:14:46 thorbjorn, i disabled that stupid buzz thing Feb 10 20:14:50 wonder if its ok to get a thread locked and start a new one with the reason its 70 pages long and none is gonna bother reading it all Feb 10 20:14:56 So I bought a dc-10 car charger... Feb 10 20:15:06 good news: 1200mA output Feb 10 20:15:08 Is it a bad idea to mount my network folder (cifs) where the media player can see it and will (presumably) try to index/thumbnail the tons and tons of videos? Feb 10 20:15:23 ScribbleJ, hehe Feb 10 20:15:30 how much time have you got ? Feb 10 20:15:35 bad news: the "stylish addition to your car" means it has a fuckoff huge ring of blue led Feb 10 20:15:36 and how much battery Feb 10 20:15:38 frals, like i said, we need a way to filter a tmo thread, and only show posts with "thanks" Feb 10 20:15:53 that would cut your 70 pages down to 1 post Feb 10 20:16:02 give or take ;) Feb 10 20:16:03 hehe Feb 10 20:16:58 i dont really care how scewed it would be, but its better to see the posts other members think are valuable Feb 10 20:17:17 skewed Feb 10 20:18:40 lcuk: I wouldn't expect any different. :) Feb 10 20:18:53 ~curse fbdev Feb 10 20:18:54 May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, fbdev ! Feb 10 20:19:12 lcuk: But a lot of people will like it, and they would probably prefer a phone that integrates with it. Feb 10 20:20:18 * Arif YAWNS Feb 10 20:20:23 thorbjorn, its the linkages and connections it makes from your mailing list contacts Feb 10 20:20:27 * Arif yawns without caps lock too Feb 10 20:21:22 you are right tho thorbjorn Feb 10 20:21:26 some people will go gaga for it Feb 10 20:21:36 lcuk: I think it shows Google is in an excellent position to set up a monopoly in a few days if they get their technology right. Feb 10 20:22:00 a monopoly of what? Feb 10 20:22:01 (ie. Google Wave wasn't really a success) Feb 10 20:22:31 what is google wave good for? Feb 10 20:22:32 A monopoly on the way people communicate I guess. Feb 10 20:22:38 someone hack the conversations app to make the font bigger please :D Feb 10 20:22:44 solutions on searh of problems :D Feb 10 20:22:59 how can they be a monopoly if i can just use any other service? Feb 10 20:23:05 Arif: it's html, afaik Feb 10 20:23:06 go hack Feb 10 20:23:06 :P Feb 10 20:23:26 lcuk: I guess monopoly is a badly chosen word. :) Feb 10 20:23:31 it's such a waste of screen to have a kind of big avatar on the left but itty bitty letters Feb 10 20:23:32 :) Feb 10 20:23:38 * lcuk nods ok Feb 10 20:23:41 thats semantics Feb 10 20:23:55 lcuk: But you know the way there are hundreds of services like Twitter, but none are even a fraction as popular. Feb 10 20:23:56 are they turning the google adverts into windows on buzz? Feb 10 20:24:04 thorbjorn, of course Feb 10 20:24:10 thats the same with many things Feb 10 20:24:55 lcuk: Yes, and since Twitter is so popular, it is important to have a nice Twitter app for your phone, at least for many people. Feb 10 20:25:04 lcuk: I expect the same for Google Buzz quite soon. Feb 10 20:26:32 what exactly is google buzz? Feb 10 20:27:16 i heard its googles version of twitter? Feb 10 20:27:41 lcuk: My thinking is just like, if Google Buzz gets popular, and their Nexus is the only phone that interfaces nicely with it, this would not be so good for Nokia. Feb 10 20:28:42 It's like Twitter, but you can comment on other people's "tweets", which is a feature that Twitter basically lacks (you can only tweet back, without any connection to the original post). Feb 10 20:28:47 Surely the browser based one which works on the iPhone and Android will work on the N900 Feb 10 20:28:50 So it's general usability is much better. Feb 10 20:29:15 Jaffa: And it will show a map of people's messages in your vicinity? Feb 10 20:30:02 its general* Feb 10 20:31:26 there already is juick which is basically the same - microblogging service with handy comments and threading Feb 10 20:31:44 Jaffa, thorbjorn is right about a dedicated client being good Feb 10 20:32:00 thorbjorn: so it's like Jaiku or Qaiku, but years later and within gmail. Feb 10 20:32:04 Jaffa: Actually, Google Maps for S60 will. Feb 10 20:32:34 * lcuk would prefer to see it services by conversations plugin Feb 10 20:33:01 Myrtti: Maybe. I've never heard about Jaiku or Qaiku or Juick, so those services must have been doing something wrong, unless this kind of service is indeed uninteresting. :) Feb 10 20:33:17 lcuk: Yeah, that'd be cool. Feb 10 20:33:34 whoever wrote the conversations plugins hasn't thought it out very well ;( Feb 10 20:34:10 Or thought too long without checking practical functionality? Feb 10 20:34:17 * lcuk thinks conversations works v v well Feb 10 20:34:25 Not that I know what's wrong with it though. What it does works for me too. Feb 10 20:34:34 it works a bit too well Feb 10 20:34:38 i sent a barrage of nearly 100 txt messages at eldest son the other day Feb 10 20:34:46 Heh. Feb 10 20:35:01 I went to cleanup the contact list because MSN added like 200+ entries Feb 10 20:35:07 and they disappeared from the desktop too! Feb 10 20:35:08 :D Feb 10 20:35:15 thorbjorn: Buzz is somewhat based on the idea of a Finnish startup started in 2006 or so, later bought by Google, now available as open source. Qaiku is a technical inheritor or Jaiku legacy, with more features that Jaiku had. Jaiku had feed import, threaded conversations etc. Qaiku has language support far beyond Jaiku, and even Buzz. Some Maemo stuff is done on Qaiku. Feb 10 20:35:57 thorbjorn: http://www.qaiku.com/channels/show/maemork/ Feb 10 20:36:52 jaffa can hermees sync with gmail friends? Feb 10 20:37:01 errr contacts Feb 10 20:37:28 thorbjorn: Mauku on N900 even supports Qaiku Feb 10 20:37:43 and originally it supported only Jaiku, twitter came later Feb 10 20:37:58 Myrtti: Ok, neat stuff. So you mean this thing will already integrate with Google Buzz too? Feb 10 20:38:18 thorbjorn: I didn't say that :-/ Feb 10 20:38:45 Ah. Feb 10 20:38:49 if its based on the same tech then theres a decent chance it might, jaiku migrated to the google app engine didnt it Feb 10 20:39:07 or at least be tweakable Feb 10 20:39:08 jaiku migrated to google app engine, but buzz doesn't use any of its code Feb 10 20:39:18 qaiku is using midgard as background engine Feb 10 20:39:24 Myrtti: What do you mean with language support? Feb 10 20:40:12 thorbjorn: I can tell Qaiku I know english, finnish and swedish, and when writing a message, telling what language it's written in. Only people that have told Qaiku they know that language can see it. Feb 10 20:40:29 Myrtti: Ah, alright. Feb 10 20:40:42 nifty way of filtering out messages you don't understand from people who are intresting and multilingual Feb 10 20:41:13 does someone know a text editor besides vim that does syntax highlighting? Feb 10 20:41:20 for the n900 Feb 10 20:41:25 pygtkeditor Feb 10 20:41:26 a la geany Feb 10 20:41:34 lcuk: ah right thanks Feb 10 20:45:40 * thresh officially hates delivery services in .ru Feb 10 20:46:30 they fake and don't publish the tracking information so you cant screw them for not delivering the packages Feb 10 20:46:31 thresh: Black Books actually deserves watching, btw\ Feb 10 20:46:43 yes, it's dreadful, but quite short Feb 10 20:47:08 that's a direct quote from the series :) Feb 10 20:47:08 Shapeshifter: emacs :) Feb 10 20:47:13 Myrtti: It's another grudge with Twitter indeed, that it's impossible to follow a Russian since most his tweets will be, well, Russian. Feb 10 20:47:50 * RST38h wonders what thorbjorn expected Feb 10 20:48:00 * thresh tweets in english mostly Feb 10 20:48:09 ... Feb 10 20:48:30 * SpeedEvil does not tweet. Feb 10 20:48:35 there is no editor but vi ;) Feb 10 20:48:52 SpeedEvil: now you just being a luddite! Feb 10 20:48:54 RST38h: I expect a feature like Qaiku, where I can say "only English from this guy please". Feb 10 20:48:59 my god, the most useful thing for that language code would be being able to blank txt spk from the view! Feb 10 20:49:06 I find the "microblog" format pretty much as interesting as IRC away messages Feb 10 20:49:11 RST38h: Or a feature like PicasaWeb, which is "autotranslate please". Feb 10 20:49:11 "brb taking a leak" Feb 10 20:49:12 "back" Feb 10 20:49:34 You should rather use that macroblog site that has a /minimum/ message length of 4000 characters or so Feb 10 20:49:35 * thresh only follows cool sports men tweets Feb 10 20:49:35 built in google translate on twitter? great idea! Feb 10 20:49:52 It would be a great idea if machine translation worked properly. Feb 10 20:49:58 * RST38h does not tweet, finding this activity humiliating Feb 10 20:50:01 "RT: @lumpio-toilet just flushed, mass 4kg, consistency..." Feb 10 20:50:08 * Arif isn't interesting enough to tweet ;( Feb 10 20:50:17 4kg? holy shit Feb 10 20:50:20 lcuk: I almost have that though. http://www.mauve.plus.com/weight.gif Feb 10 20:50:22 literally Feb 10 20:50:23 (Literally) Feb 10 20:50:25 lcuk: Now, THAT is a good use for twitter Feb 10 20:50:26 damn, slow Feb 10 20:50:26 Lumpio-: gave birth Feb 10 20:50:30 lcuk: you can derive the quantities from that. Feb 10 20:50:38 lcuk: Of course, it should also make pictures Feb 10 20:50:38 Lumpio-: Qaiku has the 140char limit only on the start message, comments can be as long as needed Feb 10 20:50:47 lcuk: the spikes downward are exactly that event :) Feb 10 20:50:53 Isn't that a bit... backwards, Myrtti? Feb 10 20:50:57 Lumpio-: no? Feb 10 20:51:00 RST38h, for the ladies it wouldnt use the twitpic service Feb 10 20:51:07 At least AFAIK, blog posts tend to be longer than the comments they get Feb 10 20:51:32 Lumpio: Depends. Feb 10 20:51:57 RST38h, should be relatively easy to create a twittering hack like that Feb 10 20:52:04 Actually, making shortest blog post that will collect shitloads of comments is an art Feb 10 20:52:07 there was a bubble blowing machine at one of the barcamps Feb 10 20:52:13 and other stuff similar Feb 10 20:52:15 "PS3 has no gaems" Feb 10 20:52:18 I won. Feb 10 20:52:18 SpeedEvil: what's the software you're using? Feb 10 20:52:24 lcuk: Frankly, it is the only use for twitter I can think about Feb 10 20:52:39 ditto for irc Feb 10 20:52:47 lcuk: Naah, IRC is actually useful Feb 10 20:52:48 thresh: gnuplot+awk Feb 10 20:52:52 mkay Feb 10 20:53:00 Lumpio-: in Qaiku the idea in some places is to offer a "header" or "title" with the 140chars Feb 10 20:53:05 ah Feb 10 20:53:06 RST38h, twitter is irc for web2.0 tho :p Feb 10 20:53:07 Then it makes sense Feb 10 20:53:11 lcuk: Communication tool. Twitter is just a stupid web site accepting 140-char messages Feb 10 20:53:11 and don't you have your scales connected to a computer? :o Feb 10 20:53:16 Lumpio-: http://www.qaiku.com/channels/show/seminaarikannu/view/1df14fb14670fde14fb11df9e28392befdf19e319e3/ Feb 10 20:53:21 Sorry, I hadn't heard of Qaiku, just sounded like a twitter clone, I mean, with the same character limit and all Feb 10 20:53:26 * lcuk sees nothing wrong with char limit Feb 10 20:54:15 ^ good example of the usage Feb 10 20:55:01 mm Feb 10 20:55:02 SpeedEvil, Feb 10 20:55:05 your picture Feb 10 20:55:10 have you stopped eating? Feb 10 20:55:16 Myrtti: The topic ("Tapping the social web") makes the whole conversation pointless Feb 10 20:55:34 RST38h: that channel is for reporting seminars and conferences Feb 10 20:55:41 Myrtti: At best, we are seeing discussion of Twitter conducted via Twitter =) Feb 10 20:55:56 lcuk: not quite. Feb 10 20:56:15 RST38h: technical example, not context example ;-) Feb 10 20:56:52 lcuk: I started out at BMI >30 - 'obese' - and have gotten down to a much more reasonable weight. Around 800 calories down from static intake. Feb 10 20:57:30 good on ya! that chart is actually rly interesting Feb 10 20:57:38 where maemo stores contacts? Feb 10 20:57:55 The spikes show just how damn variable stuff is. And how much scales can lie if you don't do moving averages. Feb 10 20:58:24 moving averages? Feb 10 20:58:35 that makes me think of lorries and weighbridges Feb 10 20:59:11 A moving average would be the average of the values surrounding the point in time Feb 10 20:59:23 :) the green line is a 7 day moving average - of the 7 days centred on a date. Feb 10 20:59:32 It makes it easier to see long-term trends in data that has lots of short-term variation Feb 10 20:59:48 Annoyingly gnuplot can't do that - so I have it done in awk Feb 10 21:00:18 Maybe I should start charting stuff like that Feb 10 21:00:28 Although I'd probably despair over the first data point, heh Feb 10 21:00:47 lcuk: It's a feature request which's been raised. Unimplemented as yet. Feb 10 21:01:12 I'm also working on hacking up scripts to integrate 'weightjinni' with www.livestrong.com/thedailyplate/ Feb 10 21:01:18 jaffa, as thorbjorn said, with the new google service, it could be something people may request more of Feb 10 21:03:11 Lumpio-:I'd recommend first using the above to accurately work out your calorie intake over a week. Then loo aat where the bulk is coming from and see if you can swap high calorie food you're eating because it's there for lower calorie food that you really like. Feb 10 21:03:19 SpeedEvil, best luck with your targeti also estimate that if you continue at that rate, you will become lighter than air in just over 13months Feb 10 21:04:03 lcuk: I initially was perplexed by the projected date for my target weightloss. Then I realised it was fitting to weight 0. Feb 10 21:04:03 SpeedEvil: But I already know where it's coming from. Feb 10 21:04:21 heh Feb 10 21:04:28 target weightless Feb 10 21:04:30 Fast food is just so... effortless. Feb 10 21:04:38 I was somewhat surprised when I did the numbers to find out how many of my daily calories were coming from milk. Feb 10 21:04:46 Weightlessness would probably be fun for a while, but for a lifetime? no thanks Feb 10 21:04:46 damn you! Feb 10 21:05:08 >> afk Feb 10 21:05:12 Taking my coffee 20C hotter for example - as a stupid example - meant I actually taste it rather than glugging it down, and use less milk. Feb 10 21:05:56 Also - when you feel like a snack but you know you shouldn't - just play angrybirds for a bit. Feb 10 21:06:37 Have I come to the weightwatchers forum by accident? :-S Feb 10 21:07:14 tybollt: This might be more on-topic than you'd think ;P Feb 10 21:07:20 Well, I can't talk for everyone though. Feb 10 21:07:32 hm Feb 10 21:07:48 sending email from the n900 just says "failed" but does not offer an error message of any kind Feb 10 21:07:51 I can live without snacks. I just need to find a healthier source for my main meals Feb 10 21:07:59 is there some way I can configure the mail application to actually tell me what is wrong? Feb 10 21:08:11 Toba: I used strace Feb 10 21:08:16 seriously? Feb 10 21:08:22 which is spectacularly the wrong way to do it. Feb 10 21:08:24 yes Feb 10 21:08:25 But worked. Feb 10 21:08:28 wow Feb 10 21:09:08 Somehow it turned out that my hostname had gotten set to sixteen NULs which was upsetting modst. Feb 10 21:09:13 also pidgin Feb 10 21:09:36 The error message on N900 are a bit lackin indeed Feb 10 21:09:42 Is there no secret log file or something? Feb 10 21:09:57 not that I've seen Feb 10 21:10:03 I mean, like for example, apps tend to just die if you give them the wrong command line arguments Feb 10 21:10:07 No USAGE, no nothing Feb 10 21:10:13 No man page either Feb 10 21:10:25 man is online. . . . Feb 10 21:10:40 for stuff like camera-ui? Feb 10 21:10:52 I'm just glad this is the only thing I've had trouble with Feb 10 21:10:54 but still Feb 10 21:10:58 just 'failed' really nokia? Feb 10 21:11:00 Well, osso-xterm would be nice for a start Feb 10 21:11:02 that is not a useful message Feb 10 21:11:02 ...IIRC Feb 10 21:11:15 that is hiding what is wrong Feb 10 21:11:20 (The exact name, thatis (>IIRC)) Feb 10 21:12:56 is anybody using gadu-gadu on n900 or does anybody know how to import buddylist/contacts from it to n900 contacts? Feb 10 21:13:04 Does 'activating' a red bird do anything? Feb 10 21:13:44 red bird? Feb 10 21:13:53 Does anyone know if it's ok to recompile a debian package and upload to maemo repos? Feb 10 21:14:07 just adding a changelog entry noting the port Feb 10 21:14:13 I would hope so. Feb 10 21:14:26 hexagoon, not if you're planning on uploading it to non-free. :) Feb 10 21:14:36 hahaha what Feb 10 21:14:42 i think it goes the other way, GeneralAntilles ;) Feb 10 21:14:45 SpeedEvil: Don't think it does Feb 10 21:14:56 Toba, if he's planning on "recompiling" then it sounds like he's doing it locally. Feb 10 21:15:02 Which sounds like he's just planning on uploading a binary. Feb 10 21:15:05 Which aint gonna work. Feb 10 21:15:31 I figure he means cross compiling... Feb 10 21:15:36 GeneralAntilles: Well, sourcing the original package, repack it and upload to extras :P Feb 10 21:15:52 remember hexagoon it's an ARM chip Feb 10 21:15:52 Toba, that doesn't mean anything different. :) Feb 10 21:16:10 Toba_, if he's uploading it to Extras, it's going through the autobuilder which handles the compilation. :) Feb 10 21:16:15 heh Feb 10 21:16:25 I should shut up about things I don't know as much about as I thought I did. Feb 10 21:16:33 Toba_: =) Feb 10 21:16:50 I'm a dev, just need to port some dependencies Feb 10 21:17:23 well, i give it a go :) Feb 10 21:17:37 if no-one disagrees ? ;) Feb 10 21:19:53 looks like someoone hacked in USB OTG for droid Feb 10 21:20:19 wonder how hard it would be to duplicate that on n900 Feb 10 21:23:22 droid on n900? Feb 10 21:28:21 pwnguin: OTG is impossible - thjere is no pin got it. USB-host seems not to be impossible as so far discovered. Feb 10 21:28:26 But nobodies done it Feb 10 21:34:16 how can I find if anyone has packaged pysqlite for fremantle? Feb 10 21:34:25 it doesn't seem to be in freemoe Feb 10 21:34:31 at least not in extras and devel Feb 10 21:36:22 hi guys, I have a problem with INotify on a devkit environment .... the testing C code compile on ARMEL and X86 but not on HOST environment ... Feb 10 21:36:43 anyone have a suggestion? Feb 10 21:38:05 Toba: the python sqlit3e module is builtin Feb 10 21:40:26 mk8: What's the host environment? Feb 10 21:40:59 hexagoon: I need to have a devkit so I need to use host gcc e not the cross compiler ... Feb 10 21:41:42 so I try to define a new environment on the scratchbox that us gcc (host) instead gcc (cross) ... Feb 10 21:42:10 mk8: what happens? Feb 10 21:42:28 I also install maemo-sdk-debug, rootstrap and so on ... but I not able to compile a code that use INotify Feb 10 21:43:02 what happens when you try to compile ? :) Feb 10 21:43:10 probably I make some mistake on the configuration of the environment.... Feb 10 21:43:38 hexagoon: I got this error: Feb 10 21:43:38 /var/tmp/cc2TNRPk.o(.text+0x1b): In function `main': Feb 10 21:43:38 : undefined reference to `inotify_init' Feb 10 21:43:38 /var/tmp/cc2TNRPk.o(.text+0x4b): In function `main': Feb 10 21:43:38 : undefined reference to `inotify_add_watch' Feb 10 21:43:39 /var/tmp/cc2TNRPk.o(.text+0x1e6): In function `main': Feb 10 21:43:53 sorry ... next time I will use pastebin Feb 10 21:44:00 =) Feb 10 21:44:12 do you have the inotify lib? Feb 10 21:44:19 and devlib? Feb 10 21:44:21 what is the "finger-friendly" link for buzz? Feb 10 21:45:20 * v13 needs python packaging guidance/help Feb 10 21:45:43 hexagoon: I not know .. I install the maemo-sdk-debug package in the HOST environment Feb 10 21:46:30 to compile the C code I simply use "gcc inotify.c -o inotify.bin" ... on all the environment, I never specify any external lib Feb 10 21:48:26 mk8: you need to if it uses an external lib Feb 10 21:48:38 when invoked as 'gcc', it by default links libc Feb 10 21:50:04 for inotify tho, there are no libs.. Feb 10 21:50:08 right luke-jr, but inotify is in the kernel so I suppose that is resolved by libc Feb 10 21:50:25 mk8: I don't think libc provides kernel interfaces Feb 10 21:50:31 but I don't know how they are resolved :| Feb 10 21:50:51 heh Feb 10 21:52:54 you can syscall() kernel things glibc doesn't know about Feb 10 21:54:59 for some things, glibc provides just aliases against syscalls() Feb 10 21:55:26 ShadowJK: the problem is more complex. I identify that an not able to compile code that use inotify ... but I need to compile a big crunch of code that I not write and use inotify .... Feb 10 21:55:48 you can always get the inotify code from glibc and add it to the code Feb 10 21:56:05 but make sure that inotify actually works on mameo's kernel first :) Feb 10 21:56:23 v13: the problem is that glib not compile because not find inotify interface Feb 10 21:56:29 v13: good point :) Feb 10 21:56:44 hmmm Feb 10 21:56:52 I seem to be missing mplayer.conf Feb 10 21:56:53 mk8: you can always modify configure or configure.in to always succeed on that test Feb 10 21:56:57 can I just create it? Feb 10 21:57:29 luke-jr , v13 , the problem is glib libray during the linking stage give me this error .... Feb 10 21:57:47 why don't we have /etc/shells? Feb 10 21:57:59 arif: sure Feb 10 21:58:09 mk8: ok, I don't use glib. :P Feb 10 21:58:18 or /home/user/.mplayer/config Feb 10 21:58:36 luke-jr: I suppose that is not possible for me ... :( Feb 10 21:58:43 mk8: why? Feb 10 21:58:58 I looked in /etc/mplayer/mplayer.conf Feb 10 21:59:05 because the environment that I try to port use glib library Feb 10 21:59:21 fail :P Feb 10 21:59:24 * Arif goes to look there too Feb 10 22:01:03 heh, MMS notifications seem to lag the hell out of the phone :) Feb 10 22:02:15 pff Feb 10 22:02:18 people use mms? Feb 10 22:02:39 <|R> are the hoops and socer frenzy games worth it? You can't even get a demo ... Feb 10 22:02:52 Arif: heh, my mother does :) Feb 10 22:03:04 It never looked appealing to me Feb 10 22:03:07 for €0,50 a message Feb 10 22:03:09 :p Feb 10 22:03:12 Arif: based on the mms leaks a few years ago, yes, but mostly real estate agents Feb 10 22:03:19 oh, well it doesn't cost me any more Feb 10 22:03:34 or someone else who thinks a picture of a house is worth sending Feb 10 22:03:41 directions maybe? Feb 10 22:03:51 take a picture>press share>press tinypic>send link via msn/mail==free mms \o/ Feb 10 22:04:27 take a picture, click sharing by email option Feb 10 22:04:28 done Feb 10 22:04:41 that might also work Feb 10 22:04:51 most people around me don't have their mail set up on their phones though ;( Feb 10 22:05:08 since MSN/Facebook is offered for free that's the prefered way to communicate :D Feb 10 22:05:08 they have msn though? Feb 10 22:06:16 Yeah, or the crackberry stuff Feb 10 22:06:51 oo, the led on the lower right of the N900 has different colors :D Feb 10 22:06:58 nite all, sweet dreams Feb 10 22:07:01 three colors Feb 10 22:07:06 in varying proportions Feb 10 22:07:17 I only saw orange pulsing for charging and now it's green Feb 10 22:07:26 nn trem ;o Feb 10 22:07:28 blue means there's a notification Feb 10 22:07:38 I don't have a sim yet =( Feb 10 22:07:46 I'm getting it friday :D Feb 10 22:07:58 The 1.000.000€ question: Anyone succeeded with making cdbs use python 2.5 instead of 2.3 ? Feb 10 22:08:06 email counts as a message Feb 10 22:08:19 email/sms/IM are all blue Feb 10 22:08:25 and probably missed call Feb 10 22:08:28 heh Feb 10 22:08:34 they should serperate all that Feb 10 22:08:41 meh. Feb 10 22:08:48 it's all the same Feb 10 22:08:51 or at least calls/messages Feb 10 22:08:55 ouff.. the Harmattan on N900 thread is _heavy_ Feb 10 22:09:26 find the useful posts and start a new thread! Feb 10 22:09:58 * v13 desperate: heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeelp :-) Feb 10 22:10:14 Arif, well there's one. Feb 10 22:10:19 * Arif hands v13 a cookie Feb 10 22:10:31 thanks :) Feb 10 22:10:45 mece, telling you to buy the next device? :P Feb 10 22:11:00 Arif, No, a somewhat comforting post from Quim: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=506273&postcount=686 Feb 10 22:12:41 Arif, I don't care about navigating, and I'm not particularly interested in harmattan atm, so It's all the same to me, but I do like to have more stuff for my dear Pumpkin Feb 10 22:12:57 I'll buy the next device anyway Feb 10 22:13:01 so it doesn't matter too much to me Feb 10 22:13:17 I'll have to see. Feb 10 22:13:50 I've been hearing the word capacitive a little too much lately.. Feb 10 22:14:02 I don't like capacitive Feb 10 22:14:09 it's _too_ sensitive Feb 10 22:14:11 capacitive does not go well with civilization for example... Feb 10 22:14:17 oh Feb 10 22:14:20 I don't like RTS Feb 10 22:14:23 or women with fingernails Feb 10 22:14:30 RTS? Feb 10 22:14:36 or men with fingernails Feb 10 22:14:52 civilization is an RTS last time I played it :O Feb 10 22:15:01 whats rts? Feb 10 22:15:06 real time strategy Feb 10 22:15:13 no, civ is a turne based strategy Feb 10 22:15:15 turn Feb 10 22:15:34 even worse :! Feb 10 22:15:48 * Arif doesn't have the patience for those things :( Feb 10 22:15:48 OMG warlords! Feb 10 22:16:06 There has to be an sdl warlords clone out there... Feb 10 22:16:39 I only want a "Share" option in the media player context menu Feb 10 22:16:42 and then I'm all set :D Feb 10 22:17:39 * Arif isn't a demanding user :) Feb 10 22:18:53 :) Feb 10 22:19:32 oh and portrait mode for the media player Feb 10 22:19:37 I want to change songs with one hand :D Feb 10 22:20:57 I heard that Wesnoth was awailable for Maemo :) Feb 10 22:21:12 Oh yesh! LordsAWar, a Worlords 2 clone. Requires gtkmm >= 2.4 libglademm >= 2.4 SDL >= 1.2 libsigc++ >= 2.0 libgnet >= 2.0 Feb 10 22:21:14 do we have that? Feb 10 22:21:47 oh great, the channel went from English to Linuxish Feb 10 22:21:47 :P Feb 10 22:22:02 * SpeedEvil hits Arif with a stuffed penguin. Feb 10 22:22:13 * Arif throws a quince at SpeedEvil Feb 10 22:23:02 An electron or a neutrino-quince? Feb 10 22:23:26 the edible one Feb 10 22:23:40 I have several small ones in the kitchen. Feb 10 22:23:47 I'm unsure what do do with them. Feb 10 22:23:51 eat them? Feb 10 22:24:01 that's what I usually do with them Feb 10 22:24:12 and there hasn't ben an unusual moment =D Feb 10 22:24:28 I was assuming for some reason they were usually cooked. Feb 10 22:28:03 grr argh! I get "configure: error: *** SDL_mixer is not installed or has not been compiled *** with ogg vorbis support" eventhough I have all the libsdl-mixer packages... Feb 10 22:29:41 gah pulseaudio! Feb 10 22:32:11 anyone know if maemo uses gpsd and if so, does maemo allow the user to turn on/off the gps radio? Feb 10 22:32:48 no, yes Feb 10 22:33:02 what does maemo use if not gpsd? Feb 10 22:33:04 gypsy? Feb 10 22:33:09 I never cook quinces Feb 10 22:33:09 ! Feb 10 22:33:11 location-daemon Feb 10 22:33:13 or something Feb 10 22:33:19 It's a nokia thing Feb 10 22:33:25 closed? Feb 10 22:33:26 the GPS is connected to the phone modem Feb 10 22:33:33 not the main CPU Feb 10 22:33:41 you can disable location in the settings but no idea what that does to the GPS radio itself... Feb 10 22:33:43 oh okay Feb 10 22:33:45 o.o Feb 10 22:33:47 so all comms go through the phone modem bit Feb 10 22:33:59 It only powers it up when needed Feb 10 22:34:21 oh wow Feb 10 22:34:25 the FM receiver is great! Feb 10 22:34:34 way better than the N95's with the same earphones Feb 10 22:35:03 I love this device more with every feature I try and actually manage to get it to work :P Feb 10 22:35:15 :) Feb 10 22:35:34 I couldn't get qtirreco to work though :( Feb 10 22:35:50 I downloaded a remote but the screen's kinda blank :O Feb 10 22:39:08 what to do what to do Feb 10 22:39:29 write an N900 app that makes Turkish tea? =P Feb 10 22:39:53 heh, my bro wants me to make an app that makes Mate Feb 10 22:40:07 Argentine tea-like substance... Feb 10 22:40:28 lol Feb 10 22:40:42 one timble worth a charge should be enough for emergencies Feb 10 22:46:47 hi, anyone got Maemo 5 SDK running on openSUSE 11.2? The scratchbox installed fine but I can't get the runtime going, getting "mmap: Permission Denied" errors even though I've set /proc/sys/vm/mmap_min_addr to 4096 Feb 10 22:47:04 there's no /proc/sys/vm/vdso_enabled on openSUSE Feb 10 22:48:58 anyone have a gst-launch pipeline to go from matroska to xvimagesink, by any chance? Feb 10 22:49:21 damns, I ran into a problem I don't know how to fix. I get complaints about missing directory error: *** Can't find directory /usr/include/boost Feb 10 22:49:32 I'm guessing boost is some package, but which one? Feb 10 22:50:07 mtd: do you only need video or audio, too? do you need a complete pipeline or are playbin/decodebin Feb 10 22:50:11 ok Feb 10 22:51:01 woo! libbost1.38-dev :) Feb 10 22:51:19 Saviq: just the video would be fine for now Feb 10 22:51:57 Saviq: the media centre is refusing to play any video if I try to play an mkv file, and so I want to see whether gst can play the mkv file (and meida player is the problem) or something else. Feb 10 22:52:25 v13: python problem solved? Feb 10 22:52:26 mtd: in that case: gst-launch playbin uri=file:///path/to/your/file.mkv Feb 10 22:52:41 mtd or playbin2 Feb 10 22:53:14 Saviq: yeah, tried that :( Feb 10 22:53:16 Saviq: thanks Feb 10 22:53:25 mtd: errors? Feb 10 22:53:30 Saviq: it doesn't work even on the nokia-provided .mp4 Feb 10 22:53:39 Saviq: pastie coming... Feb 10 22:54:10 Saviq: http://pastebin.com/m6ba25fdd Feb 10 22:55:01 t-tant-tan: no Feb 10 22:55:15 Saviq: aha, playbin2 works on the 9.mp4 file... Feb 10 22:55:30 Arif: you've to add buttons to the blank screen with edit remote or something, if it is still devel you just eat 20MB of your root partition... Feb 10 22:55:34 t-tan: any ideas / Feb 10 22:55:35 t? Feb 10 22:55:55 mtd: try in #gstreamer, too Feb 10 22:55:58 Saviq: but not on the mkv file :( Feb 10 22:56:02 Saviq: thanks Feb 10 22:56:56 v13: take a look at my ipython port in extras-devel Feb 10 22:57:09 xm.. Feb 10 22:57:11 you use cdbs ? Feb 10 22:58:50 v13: for ipython, yes. why? Feb 10 22:59:03 because that's what I'm looking for :) Feb 10 22:59:33 xmm.. i see some magic in debian/rules. Feb 10 22:59:39 v13: if you want debhelper7, check out the mercurial port Feb 10 22:59:46 no.. i want cdbs Feb 10 23:00:01 v13: yes, basically the last few lines after clean: Feb 10 23:00:36 v13: and the cdbs_python_current_binary Feb 10 23:00:50 cdbs_python_current_binary := $(shell pyversions -d) Feb 10 23:00:56 this solves the 2.3 problem ? Feb 10 23:01:22 v13: yes, if you reuse the last lines it's guaranteed Feb 10 23:01:54 the: python-build-stamp-%: ? Feb 10 23:02:10 v13: yes, and the rest Feb 10 23:02:15 hm... Feb 10 23:02:30 correct me if i'm wrong, but you seem to screw cdbs and do it yourself. right ? Feb 10 23:03:06 v13: it's a copy and paste from a working cdbs file, the autobuilder one seems to be broken Feb 10 23:06:22 hi all Feb 10 23:08:41 i should do a daily #maemo digest Feb 10 23:09:04 t-tan: does this reflect any memories? : . && python2.5 setup.py build --build-base="/home/maemo/dev/wifieye/wifieye-0.2.0/./build" Feb 10 23:09:31 if not i'll look it myself. i get an error for it Feb 10 23:10:37 anyone here successfully using m.google.com exchange? Feb 10 23:10:46 v13: looks good. what's the error? Feb 10 23:10:55 there is no "." :) Feb 10 23:11:03 /scratchbox/tools/bin/sh: line 1: .: filename argument required Feb 10 23:11:10 pupnik: yes, please! Feb 10 23:11:25 v13: cd $(DEB_SRCDIR) && Feb 10 23:11:29 Hmm. Feb 10 23:11:36 ? Feb 10 23:11:37 'pdf reader' is moderately broken Feb 10 23:11:46 v13: did you forget the "cd" Feb 10 23:12:00 arg Feb 10 23:12:00 No way to zoom to arbitrary zooms Feb 10 23:12:07 how did i do that? :) Feb 10 23:12:28 it's getting late here :) Feb 10 23:12:43 v13: 00:12 here ;) Feb 10 23:12:48 01:12 here :) Feb 10 23:13:01 YES!!! Feb 10 23:13:10 copy & waste Feb 10 23:13:11 t-tan: THANKS!!! Feb 10 23:13:19 t-tan question is what filter criteria would be consistent and sensible Feb 10 23:14:17 pupnik: some kind of thread structure would be nice Feb 10 23:14:25 maybe include general tips/tricks/hints and any development solutions Feb 10 23:15:02 t-tan you're a member of pymaemo ? Feb 10 23:15:11 v13: not yet Feb 10 23:15:20 oh :) Feb 10 23:15:45 v13: good luck with wifieye! :) Feb 10 23:15:49 thanks :) Feb 10 23:15:59 is python-qt4-* available for i386 ? Feb 10 23:16:07 pupnik: it seems that many people don't know about #maemo-devel Feb 10 23:16:12 "Package python-qt4-core is not available, but is referred to by another package." Feb 10 23:16:33 or do we need #maemo-users? Feb 10 23:17:01 t-tan: FWIW: I ask in maemo-devel, it seems that there are more ppl in #maemo Feb 10 23:17:06 channel ##N900 isnt taking off Feb 10 23:17:34 * v13 dumb Feb 10 23:17:53 * v13 just found (for the third time) python2.5-qt4 Feb 10 23:19:33 pupnik: a single channel for everything could work if we can somehow filter and digest the chats Feb 10 23:20:28 GAN900, ping Feb 10 23:20:37 it would be grabbing the log and editing it daily and posting somewhere Feb 10 23:20:57 no automation possible Feb 10 23:21:02 VDVsx, pong? Feb 10 23:21:14 is it possible to use sudo in scratchbox ? Feb 10 23:21:30 "fakeroot sudo" says: sudo: /etc/sudoers is owned by uid 1000, should be 0 Feb 10 23:21:46 hw about su Feb 10 23:21:59 i need sudo for a program. Feb 10 23:22:01 or su -c "command" Feb 10 23:22:02 Howdy all Feb 10 23:22:14 and if i change /etc/sudoers, update-sudoers will fail Feb 10 23:22:29 sudo is ubuntu Feb 10 23:22:30 pupnik: that would be great! how about integrating it with MWN? Feb 10 23:23:41 t-tan maybe.. i wouldnt want to add comments.. just group discussions together and post them Feb 10 23:23:44 btw, http://sar3th.pastebin.com/m15b85a03 , any suggestions? Feb 10 23:23:54 more info pls Feb 10 23:24:11 pupnik: compiling gcc Feb 10 23:25:22 "Leavong directory"? heh. Feb 10 23:25:38 oh, typo :-[ Feb 10 23:25:53 i had to type it out manually since it's running in my vm Feb 10 23:26:04 oh wow Feb 10 23:26:18 sar3th: qemu crashed. just use my binaries from http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Tanner#experimental_packages Feb 10 23:27:03 quemu crash? :S Feb 10 23:27:05 *qemu Feb 10 23:27:17 you need to run it with a specific CPU option Feb 10 23:27:27 whatever the default is is wacky Feb 10 23:27:34 oh :| Feb 10 23:27:39 nice stuff t-tan ty Feb 10 23:27:55 the qemu in scratchbox is old and buggy Feb 10 23:28:17 t-tan: does compiling the current version solve the problems then? Feb 10 23:28:59 sar3th: I don't know. you'd have to integrate it with sb Feb 10 23:29:06 :| Feb 10 23:29:24 i was hoping i could compile it in sb ^^ Feb 10 23:29:33 Saviq: thanks for the help, btw. #gstreamer helped guess that the x264 encoding was wrong and that's helped playbin2 play the file Feb 10 23:30:00 s/and that's/and correcting that slight oversight has/ Feb 10 23:32:25 sar3th: you mean compiling qemu or gcc? Feb 10 23:32:48 t-tan: in this case, qemu Feb 10 23:33:18 t-tan: I've two questions for you: a) are .py compiled using this method? Feb 10 23:33:39 sar3th: the qemu used for arm emulation is not accessible from within sb Feb 10 23:33:42 (at installation time). I'm asking because there are no .pyo in their dirs in scratchbox's installation Feb 10 23:34:21 v13: yes, .pyc by python-support on the device (AFAIK) Feb 10 23:34:34 k. Feb 10 23:34:41 second, what's your name? :) Feb 10 23:34:44 t-tan: that means, it needs to be compiled on the host system and then integrated into scratchbox, so ./configure --prefix=/scratchbox won't do the trick, right? Feb 10 23:34:47 (for the thanks :) Feb 10 23:36:12 sar3th: probably not. I guess the also integrated some sb specific patches - but if you find a way to upgrade qemu or the devkits that would awesome! Feb 10 23:36:18 v13: you're welcome Feb 10 23:37:11 thanks t-tan, i will try that later :) Feb 10 23:37:49 bb && gn Feb 10 23:38:16 me too :) Feb 10 23:46:14 shit.. just saw an article on Maemo 6. Are Nokia planning to put in DRM-based software? Then i really will think if i will buy that N900. Also i am not to found of KDE and QT. I am a Gnome/GTK player Feb 10 23:48:08 No DRM is really possible if you have root ;-) Feb 10 23:48:42 I was seriously hovering my finger above the buy button... i have moved my hand away now... Feb 10 23:49:36 * zash gives Arkenoi a locked box with a cookie inside, and a key for the lock Feb 10 23:49:40 Arkenoi: you may only smell the cookie Feb 10 23:49:54 no eating! Feb 10 23:50:03 Yeah.. but the chance that the better software will be DRM is huge Feb 10 23:50:18 Arkenoi: nonsense :) Feb 10 23:51:05 Sandman: DRM's going to be in Maemo 6 so that content providers will even remotely sniff at the Maemo devices. Feb 10 23:51:56 The point for me chosing Maemo is purely that it is the most free OS. Feb 10 23:51:57 Sandman: what does Maemo 6 have to do with N900 anyhow? :P Feb 10 23:52:05 just lie to the content people, they're retarded anyway Feb 10 23:52:15 Sandman: arguably Android is more free. Feb 10 23:52:23 Arkenoi: ya, they are doing DRM. Was keynote speech at FOSDEM. Feb 10 23:52:27 Sandman: Gentoo can be as free as your device permits. Feb 10 23:53:00 No.. but if Maemo will get less free then i am not sure why i would chose Maemo Feb 10 23:53:09 Who said it's getting less free? Feb 10 23:53:20 Well the DRM part Feb 10 23:53:24 Arkenoi: DRM will be possible Feb 10 23:53:25 zerojay: DRM implies less free, to some degree Feb 10 23:53:30 DRM doesn't mean the entire system's locked down. Feb 10 23:53:31 no it doesn't Feb 10 23:53:36 And no, it doesn't. Feb 10 23:53:48 I can show you full free implementations of DRM which are 100% free and open Feb 10 23:53:55 Yes.. but some software will be Feb 10 23:54:01 no it doesn't Feb 10 23:54:06 Sandman: not if you stick to free software Feb 10 23:54:10 for fuck's sake, do some research before you slam a technology Feb 10 23:54:27 Sandman, you don't have to use DRM. Feb 10 23:54:28 DRM isn't bad, the most prolific implementations of DRM are Feb 10 23:54:29 What is the point with DRM? Feb 10 23:54:30 crashanddie: perhaps you mean TDM, not DRM Feb 10 23:54:38 I'm not a fan of DRM, but there's nothing that can be done about that if you want to have the content providers and the commercial app makers and game companies doing business on your platform. Feb 10 23:54:58 TDM? Feb 10 23:54:59 Sandman: To protect their investment in your platform. Feb 10 23:55:06 crashanddie: TDM is the technology used to implement DRM Feb 10 23:55:16 Sandman, just don't buy for-pay software and you don't have to deal with DRM. Feb 10 23:55:28 Exactly. Feb 10 23:55:29 luke-jr: nha Feb 10 23:55:42 I would not mind Game developers using DRM... for me it's the programs Feb 10 23:55:45 http://wiki.maemo.org/MaemoSecurity Feb 10 23:55:50 DRM is the implementation that gives someoneElse control of your computer Feb 10 23:55:58 * crashanddie facepalms Feb 10 23:56:01 haha Feb 10 23:56:13 Sandman, besides, the security framework isn't coming until to Maemo 6. Feb 10 23:56:27 Sandman, you do realize that the framework itself will be open source, right? Feb 10 23:56:28 luke-jr: DRM is the implementation that gives someoneElse control over their own content. Feb 10 23:56:34 well.. Maemo have a lot of plus... but this was a minus to the protocol Feb 10 23:56:44 protocol? Feb 10 23:56:47 yes, i know Feb 10 23:56:59 please start making sense Feb 10 23:57:09 GeneralAntilles: i doubt the whole framework will be open source. They'll have to open fiasco-gen and such then, methinks. Feb 10 23:57:20 jebba: not really Feb 10 23:57:31 Sandman, why is it a minus? If you don't want to use DRM, then don't. Feb 10 23:57:34 jebba: they could do it the same way that for example, blackberry does it Feb 10 23:57:44 i dont know how blackberry does it Feb 10 23:57:46 zerojay: by controlling your computer Feb 10 23:57:48 Sandman, it's completely optional. Feb 10 23:57:53 just lie to the content people, they're retarded anyway <-- i agree XD Feb 10 23:57:58 Well if i want a program. I want it Feb 10 23:58:00 luke-jr: No. Feb 10 23:58:10 where you package the application, but have it signed using your keys by the Blackberry CA (you login to the app with your keys, the blackberry CA signs it) Feb 10 23:58:10 Sandman: so write it Feb 10 23:58:14 If it's DRM i would not touch it Feb 10 23:58:14 oh you really think the content people are retarded? Feb 10 23:58:24 Sandman: read the wiki Feb 10 23:58:42 Sandman: if you buy an unlocked device, there will be no restrictions, you will be able to load any kernel and any app you want Feb 10 23:58:42 the content people hire consultants to tell them if a particular drm technology works or not Feb 10 23:58:47 *cough* Feb 10 23:59:09 or believe adobe Feb 10 23:59:15 Sandman: DRM = SomeoneElse controls your computer to stop you from doing what is already illegal to do under Copyright Law Feb 10 23:59:30 yeah, that is the positive of Maemo, crash Feb 10 23:59:31 luke-jr: please stop the bs Feb 10 23:59:37 though in some places adobes name is mud. Feb 10 23:59:38 crashanddie: well, n900 is "unlocked"? They can take that away in a second (and did for a month) with the proprietary flasher and such. The fiasco-gen fiasco shows just how easily they can close the openness. Feb 10 23:59:39 * zerojay sighs. Feb 11 00:00:12 Sandman: if you buy a device that is paid for mainly by a mobile operator, then they get to choose what goes on your device. Simple as that. Don't want that? Pay extra. Don't want that? DON'T BUY IT Feb 11 00:00:28 konfoo: so they always reply "this doesn't work"? Feb 11 00:01:05 jebba: i'm not even going to reply to that Feb 11 00:01:13 which content people have you lied to and gotten approval for drm tech on? Feb 11 00:01:17 give me a list then Feb 11 00:01:30 crashanddie: uh? Feb 11 00:01:30 name some studios and technologies Feb 11 00:01:49 konfoo: ever heard of non-disclosure? Feb 11 00:01:52 well, every drm doesn't work, so all of them Feb 11 00:01:55 Can I get a few people to test out and vote on adflashblock-css? Feb 11 00:02:23 *all* drm relies on obfuscation when it is deployed on a device that is not secure Feb 11 00:02:27 Freedom of software are important for me. DRM might halt the evolution. Feb 11 00:02:33 however if you control the device, that's another story Feb 11 00:02:44 Sandman: if you believe that, you don't understand the principle Feb 11 00:02:53 Sandman: go read the wiki about maemo security Feb 11 00:02:55 ~security Feb 11 00:02:56 Security is way over rated, Heck I imagine you still run windows on your regular PC don't lecture about security Feb 11 00:03:00 ~maemosecurity Feb 11 00:03:01 Sandman: if freedom of software is important to you, then why do you demand to use non-free software? ;) Feb 11 00:03:17 lol Feb 11 00:03:25 Let's play spot the trolls, kids! Feb 11 00:03:32 that quote form infobot is pretty good actually Feb 11 00:03:36 * zerojay ^5's GAN900 Feb 11 00:03:41 well.. i want to use all the good software Feb 11 00:03:51 like i do now on Linux Feb 11 00:04:02 Sandman: the DRM'd software simply won't exist if there's no DRM. Feb 11 00:04:04 i like chicken Feb 11 00:04:12 why should a telephone be different'? Feb 11 00:04:14 useless debate Feb 11 00:04:16 luke-jr: Exactly. Feb 11 00:04:23 Sandman: do you own a maemo device? Feb 11 00:04:41 Sandman: Don't worry. The ability to run free software on Maemo isn't disappearing. Feb 11 00:04:52 No, but i am a potential buyer.. i adding the plus and minus Feb 11 00:04:57 zerojay: that ability has never existed Feb 11 00:05:14 Sandman: then stop trolling Feb 11 00:05:19 luke-jr: Right... you and your delusions. Feb 11 00:05:27 haha Feb 11 00:05:29 wow Feb 11 00:05:38 how can a valid question be trolling? Feb 11 00:05:47 Sandman: because you're ignoring what we're saying Feb 11 00:05:52 it's like walking to a friggin wall Feb 11 00:06:03 either you ask questions and you listen to the replies you get, or you don't ask 'em Feb 11 00:06:04 i have not Feb 11 00:06:11 ... my point exactly Feb 11 00:06:13 crashanddie: s/like// Feb 11 00:06:41 Sandman: #FreeHandheld might be of interest Feb 11 00:06:44 DRM is not free... and i like it to be free Feb 11 00:07:11 go take your neighbor's car then Feb 11 00:07:19 wouldnt you like that to be free too? Feb 11 00:07:26 (unless its a pos) Feb 11 00:07:45 or a holden Feb 11 00:07:47 Sandman: DRM is not free. proprietary is not free. but they exist. Feb 11 00:07:51 they'd have to pay me to steal it Feb 11 00:07:58 immatriell things are not the same as materiel Feb 11 00:08:07 no, definitely not Feb 11 00:08:12 yeah, i know luke Feb 11 00:08:15 you added a bunch of letters to the second word Feb 11 00:08:18 so they're not the same Feb 11 00:08:26 haha Feb 11 00:08:49 so there's no drm today, and in the future there may be, who's forcing you to upgrade? Feb 11 00:09:10 and if you upgrade, who's forcing you to download drm-based content? Feb 11 00:09:12 Sandman: please stop trolling Feb 11 00:09:12 it can be argued that simply lack of source is a form of DRM Feb 11 00:09:19 Sandman: second time I ask you Feb 11 00:09:23 so there is DRM today too :) Feb 11 00:09:26 crash.. the only one trolling is you Feb 11 00:09:34 fair enough Feb 11 00:09:43 hes the only one talking sense Feb 11 00:09:49 the rest of you are insane Feb 11 00:09:53 Don't. Feb 11 00:09:55 Please. Feb 11 00:10:03 .. Feb 11 00:10:12 lol? Feb 11 00:10:55 * luke-jr wonders if that was intentional or just FAIL... Feb 11 00:12:46 well.. android just got more intresting by this Feb 11 00:13:10 Sandman: the problem with Android is that it reinvents everything Feb 11 00:13:12 can you change bootloader & kernel etc on android? Feb 11 00:13:18 Sandman: don't forget WebOS! Feb 11 00:13:19 ^_^ Feb 11 00:13:19 Doesn't Android have DRM too? Feb 11 00:13:38 jebba: bootloader is not part of Android Feb 11 00:13:43 don't know Feb 11 00:13:53 i am still learning Feb 11 00:14:08 what bootloader does it use then? gotta use something Feb 11 00:14:17 Sandman, if you're thinking Android is a more open platform Maemo you're deluded. Feb 11 00:14:28 jebba: the phones use various bootloaders, but I don't think there's anything consistnet Feb 11 00:14:39 i am not... but if nothing is free why bother Feb 11 00:14:41 GeneralAntilles: it is, with some phones Feb 11 00:14:46 supposedly Feb 11 00:14:58 luke-jr, open isn't just code. Feb 11 00:15:24 if you can replace componentX, then componentX is irrelevant :p Feb 11 00:15:47 how well will Ubuntu work on a N900? Feb 11 00:16:04 ~mer Feb 11 00:16:05 mer is probably http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer, or on #mer Feb 11 00:16:22 Mer != Ubuntu Feb 11 00:16:27 yeah.. Mer could be something Feb 11 00:16:28 * b-man17 is working on getting a bootable version of ubuntu lucid going on the N900 Feb 11 00:16:37 i have fedora going OK. Feb 11 00:16:40 cool! Feb 11 00:16:46 Can't recharge the fukin battery though. Totally lame. Feb 11 00:17:04 i've been trying to get ofono going for hours, but no go so far. Feb 11 00:17:14 although lucid has some serious bugs with apt and dpkg :( Feb 11 00:17:31 lucid is in aplpha ;) Feb 11 00:17:45 hence why ;) Feb 11 00:17:48 i am rinning it on my computer Feb 11 00:18:16 most works good... though grub faild me once Feb 11 00:18:34 and had to be reinstalled Feb 11 00:18:46 Lucid is the shit! Feb 11 00:19:05 Sandman: btw, Ubuntu supports DRM Feb 11 00:19:10 I know Feb 11 00:19:11 it seems that the apt/dpkg bug is only specific to the arm version Feb 11 00:19:43 Sandman: Iirc, the reason Android can't install apps onto the MicroSD card is because Google is still working on DRM to prevent you from pirating via the SD card, or something like that. So don't think Android is "pure" if you hate DRM. Feb 11 00:19:47 Luke-jr: so? :P Feb 11 00:20:07 * b-man17 doesnt touch drm Feb 11 00:20:21 No, i would like to keep me off android Feb 11 00:20:31 DRM just touches you in your no-no spot. Feb 11 00:20:37 Sandman: It's also not a GNU/Linux implementation. Normally, I'm not a big proponent of calling Linux "GNU/Linux" but here it's pretty key. Yeah, Android uses the Linux kernel but it doesn't really use anything like a standard Linux distro. Maemo is more like a distro. Feb 11 00:20:45 i will probably go Mer or Ubuntu on the device Feb 11 00:21:00 zerojay: lol Feb 11 00:21:09 lol Feb 11 00:21:32 Sandman: I'm not a big fan of Ubuntu, and them starting to default to Yahoo (Bing) for search is a big negative. Feb 11 00:21:49 yeah.. i hate that shit Feb 11 00:21:51 Yahoo != Bing Feb 11 00:21:53 Bing == Microsoft; Yahoo wasn't aquired Feb 11 00:22:20 i was close to change dist due to that Feb 11 00:22:22 crashanddie: Google "Yahoo Bing" Feb 11 00:22:50 Microsoft is making a deal with Yahoo, where basically Yahoo Search goes away in favor of Bing, and Yahoo returns to being mostly email/portal. Feb 11 00:22:55 Aethaeryn: wow, three company names and the grammatical sense of your sentence is still correct! Feb 11 00:23:06 I'm gonna go google with Yahoo. Feb 11 00:23:25 I don't think I've been to a yahoo site in 10 years. Feb 11 00:23:30 gotta sleep.. later Feb 11 00:23:45 eh... guess Flickr counts. Feb 11 00:23:45 Sandman: don't let the /quit hit you in the ass Feb 11 00:24:34 grow up crash... Feb 11 00:24:37 man this place is gettin hostile Feb 11 00:24:47 I used to have a Yahoo email, several hotmails (had them for forever so changed name multiple times as I grew up), and several Gmails. Now I just have a hotmail and a Gmail and I rarely check the hotmail. Oh, I also had a Netscape email I used several times because it came with AIM many years ago. Feb 11 00:25:05 Gmail just has the best interface/storage solutions for free webmail, at least among the ones I've used. Feb 11 00:25:18 Sandman: you've been ignoring everything I've been saying. All the arguments I've provided you flew past. The only thing is you can't go past the word "DRM", even though you're completely wrong about what it means for the platform and yourself Feb 11 00:25:53 konfoo, too many trolls. Feb 11 00:26:06 Sandman: don't tell me to grow up, because as far as I'm concerned, at least I've understood what Maemo Security is about, and I'm contributing to it through my expertise and knowledge with regards to expertise and key distribution Feb 11 00:26:22 GeneralAntilles: i prefer to call them the insane/deranged Feb 11 00:26:25 err, that second expertise should be "encryption" Feb 11 00:26:32 crashanddie: The problem with DRM on things like music and movies is that the pirates just circumvent it, whereas legitimate users are locked down to one device and/or application. Feb 11 00:26:48 Aethaeryn: that is only the case with poor implementations Feb 11 00:26:54 So it basically becomes an incentive to pirate if there's DRM. Feb 11 00:26:58 No, crash.. you have been ignoring me. And you are true. I am noob when it comes to Maemo. Thats why i asked Feb 11 00:27:10 didn't think ppl would get upset Feb 11 00:27:12 If there was some kind of universal DRM, I wouldn't mind, but most DRMs lock you down to iTunes and iDevices :P Feb 11 00:27:33 Aethaeryn: a proper implementation that has an open algorithm is not bad at all, for it can be implemented on any device. Sure, it requires to have a new device, but you did buy a new blu ray player, or a new dvd player ten years ago, right? Feb 11 00:27:43 Aethaeryn: so why would it be any different now? Feb 11 00:28:05 Aethaeryn: If I can offer you an algorithm, freely, that will allow you to securely decrypt the files you own, then where's the problem? Feb 11 00:28:11 crashanddie: The one problem is if it requires a new computer, since computers are supposed to last for years... Feb 11 00:28:26 it won't Feb 11 00:28:41 But my point is, if I buy a book, a movie, or a song, I want to be able to use it anywhere, anytime, with any player/reader. Feb 11 00:28:44 well, it may not run on the N900, but that's because the N900 doesn't have a HSM Feb 11 00:29:06 Aethaeryn: I agree, and in order to achieve that we need to setup a standard encryption format Feb 11 00:29:18 And I won't share on peer-to-peer networks, since I don't like sharing. Feb 11 00:29:28 I'm selfish in that sense. If I paid $5, you should pay $5 too Feb 11 00:30:13 I just really don't like how basically DRM locks you to one vendor, device, or application Feb 11 00:30:26 yup Feb 11 00:30:43 It would both need to be open and royalty-free, since you wouldn't want to exclude freeware or open source software. Feb 11 00:30:56 yay, newegg is proccessing my replacement n900 ^_^ Feb 11 00:30:56 agreed Feb 11 00:31:07 freeware isn't the same as free software Feb 11 00:31:08 pronto: how long did it take? Feb 11 00:31:10 random clarification Feb 11 00:31:17 it took a few days for it to get there Feb 11 00:31:34 but once it got there, it seems to be going fast Feb 11 00:31:40 it was UPS ground from maryland to cali Feb 11 00:32:33 pronto: so... pronto presto? Feb 11 00:32:44 huh? Feb 11 00:33:07 pronto: Maryland is being hit with a major series of snowstorms that's crippled us for basically all week Feb 11 00:33:10 ah Feb 11 00:33:15 So if it's being shipped from Maryland, that's probably why there's problems. Feb 11 00:33:16 i got it out the day before the first storm Feb 11 00:33:16 lol Feb 11 00:33:19 "pronto presto": ready soon Feb 11 00:33:32 newegg got my n900 Feb 11 00:33:42 and is probally gonna ship the new one ina day or so Feb 11 00:34:06 Amazon has the N900 for $529.99, which is $20 cheaper than Newegg. Feb 11 00:34:17 i had to RMA my n900 lol Feb 11 00:34:29 the micro usb port broke on it Feb 11 00:34:38 * Mousey wonders how hard it'll be to find the n810 now Feb 11 00:35:04 Mousey: I can sell you one Feb 11 00:35:09 i ordered my n900 on jan 8th, it broke like feb 1st Feb 11 00:35:18 crashanddie: new in box? Feb 11 00:35:24 Mousey: nha, well used Feb 11 00:35:29 and abused Feb 11 00:35:41 and without a pouch Feb 11 00:35:43 nor charger Feb 11 00:35:44 had one like that already. need a new one Feb 11 00:35:55 and the battery is a crap chinese one Feb 11 00:36:01 (chinese wan?) Feb 11 00:36:18 pronto: i had to do exact same thing. Feb 11 00:36:41 i'm just happy newegg was cool about it Feb 11 00:37:03 ya, amazon processed return immediately Feb 11 00:37:19 So is the successor for the n900 going to be the n910 or the n1000? Feb 11 00:37:40 Rumor mill says N920 Feb 11 00:38:41 And would it have a 1 Ghz processor like most top-of-the-line phones rumored this year? Feb 11 00:38:50 Actually, one phone's now rumored to have 1.5 Ghz Feb 11 00:39:22 I find OMAP3630 more likely Feb 11 00:39:24 But you never know. Feb 11 00:41:01 Again, does anyone have benchmarks snapdragon vs omap3? or even snapdragon vs a8... Feb 11 00:41:13 Why not OMAP3640? Feb 11 00:41:19 Aethaeryn, power consumption? Feb 11 00:41:22 mhz wars in phones. o noes! Feb 11 00:41:37 ShadowJK, don't, but I'd be very interested to see. Feb 11 00:41:47 pupnik: Not mhz wars, ghz wars... keep up with the times :P Feb 11 00:42:01 They're just starting to break the 1ghz barrier. Feb 11 00:42:05 ti should make one that does something useless at 2ghz Feb 11 00:42:21 * Mousey holds out for the nSeries steno pad Feb 11 00:42:27 A dual core 2.x ghz one might in fact outpower my laptop Feb 11 00:42:31 That would be scary. Feb 11 00:42:40 Even with only 10 min of battery life Feb 11 00:43:03 Aethaeryn: it is wrong to look at mhz. that is where you will waste battery Feb 11 00:43:39 I'd look at Mhz and RAM, but for some reason RAM is a lot less publicized in phones than PCs Feb 11 00:43:59 Aethaeryn, neither really tells you very much. Feb 11 00:44:01 I'd look at the speed of the storage Feb 11 00:44:16 Aethaeryn, for instance 512MB on Android aint quite the same as 512MB elsewhere. Feb 11 00:44:16 boost the NAND speed enough and you don't need RAM :P Feb 11 00:44:23 Since Android tends towards RAM hungriness. Feb 11 00:44:24 id look at the speed of the apps and the battery life Feb 11 00:44:35 I'd look at the touchscreen technology. Feb 11 00:45:01 Idk, I guess I'm too much of a geek... the first thing I look at in a phone is the raw horsepower Feb 11 00:45:06 More practically - I'd really like a replacement for my toshiba Portege 3110ct. Feb 11 00:45:35 10" screen, 8h battery life, 1.1Kg, good keyboard with trackpoint Feb 11 00:45:35 Aethaeryn, that's stupid. Feb 11 00:45:35 First thing I look for is that it's running the right software platform. Feb 11 00:45:41 * ShadowJK suspects the 720 MHz version of the cpu in n900 uses more power than the 600MHz version, even when both run at 250 Feb 11 00:45:44 You don't care about raw horsepower. Feb 11 00:45:48 .. and that it can make calls Feb 11 00:45:52 Unless you're going to be running blender on it. Feb 11 00:45:57 A 2GHz quad-core Cortex A9 with a fuel cell doesn't help you if it's running WinMob. Feb 11 00:46:09 GeneralAntilles: And if you're looking for Maemo, you get... 1 current option? Feb 11 00:46:12 ShadowJK, 45 vs 60nm, though. Feb 11 00:46:18 The software can make easily a 3 order of magnitude difference in performance. Feb 11 00:46:43 oh i didnt know there was process difference Feb 11 00:46:55 higher leakage on 45nm I'd expect tho Feb 11 00:47:06 Compare browsers forex. microb - 10s to render - lynx - .05s Feb 11 00:47:11 (of course...) Feb 11 00:47:12 SpeedEvil: does gcc count, too? Feb 11 00:47:14 :P Feb 11 00:47:24 ShadowJK, well, OMAP36x vs OMAP34x is 45 vs 60nm. Not sure about the recent revisions of OMAP35x stuff. Feb 11 00:47:30 They may just be speed binned or something. Feb 11 00:47:39 In which case, yeah, battery life is going to be worse. Feb 11 00:47:48 Don't get me wrong, I like the concept of Maemo and it looks like a fun toy, but I'm kind of waiting for the newest version... Feb 11 00:47:59 sar3th: teh compilr is very, very important in extracting the last 50% of performance/battery life. Feb 11 00:48:12 SpeedEvil: ^^ Feb 11 00:48:19 The Engadget review kinda convinced me that it's a work-in-progress, so I hope it's more polished with Maemo 6 Feb 11 00:48:26 Well - performance anyway. Feb 11 00:48:49 For most mobiles - battery life is not so dominated by CPU in most users usecases Feb 11 00:49:06 standby battery life is all about wakeups anyway Feb 11 00:49:14 yes Feb 11 00:49:17 Afaik, though, Maemo would probably be the best mobile platform to play on since it can basically support anything Linux can support and Linux is a developer's paradise. Feb 11 00:49:28 wakeups are misleading. Feb 11 00:49:52 A fast wakeup - do something - and back to sleep - on some arches can be very cheap Feb 11 00:49:57 And on others very expensive Feb 11 00:50:05 Is there going to be any successor to the tablet devices like the n810? Feb 11 00:50:22 Aethaeryn: the n900 pretty much is it isn't it? Feb 11 00:50:23 Yes, it's called N900. Feb 11 00:50:32 The N900 is a full phone. Feb 11 00:50:37 All the phone stuff adds to the price. Feb 11 00:50:42 Not that much. Feb 11 00:50:49 Perhaps 20% Feb 11 00:50:59 Mostly the price hike is thanks to more parts Feb 11 00:51:02 and higher quality parts. Feb 11 00:51:03 If I'm not going to use T-Mobile in the US, I don't see the point of getting a phone that only fully supports T-Mobile. Feb 11 00:51:10 And 20% is over $100 :P Feb 11 00:51:19 Move to somewhere better then. Feb 11 00:51:27 Clearly the US sucks for not supporting the n900. Feb 11 00:51:59 Ironically, somewhere better might be Mountain View, since Google pays for free wifi there. That'd be funny, using a non-Google phone on it. Feb 11 00:52:31 It depends what ytou use it for. Feb 11 00:52:36 For much use edge is OK Feb 11 00:52:50 as you've already got 58G or so of media on the device Feb 11 00:53:01 I'd be okay on edge, but more and more applications are moving toward the "cloud" Feb 11 00:53:11 i.e. streaming services to you rather than actually providing the service on the device Feb 11 00:53:17 and can dl podcasts over dsl Feb 11 00:53:26 in other words, they basically assume you have internet Feb 11 00:53:26 * SpeedEvil ignores those applications. Feb 11 00:53:50 Unfortunately, you can't stop a trend. Especially when it has its own buzzword (cloud) Feb 11 00:54:06 I was amused when someone realised how abysmally slow for some workloads amazon clouds can be. Feb 11 00:54:21 And unfortunately, AT&T basically wants you to get an iPhone or a dumbPhone. Feb 11 00:54:22 For example large db accessed lots. Feb 11 00:54:26 They don't want any competition on their 3G bands. Feb 11 00:54:50 You can't as one device stop a trend no. Feb 11 00:55:00 Look at how popular active-x is. Feb 11 00:55:21 It's sad, even the "Am I eligible for an upgrade?" page on AT&T is basically a giant ad for the iPhone Feb 11 00:55:31 They push it to you because they get higher profit margins Feb 11 00:55:34 Aethaeryn: i use AT/&T in USA with n900 ok Feb 11 00:56:09 I got lucky and have ended up with a heavuily discounted n9000. on t-mobile UK as it's cheapest Feb 11 00:56:09 i enjoy 3g on the N900 in .dk :P Feb 11 00:56:23 $30 for 6 mo internet at 1G/mo Feb 11 00:56:49 Anyway, does Nokia have any plans on continuing its mini-tablet-with-Maemo line or have they been obsoleted by a smartphone that's smaller and a phone? Feb 11 00:56:58 We don't know. Feb 11 00:57:13 There are currently no announcements or rumors of such. Feb 11 00:57:16 I think a 5-inch device that barely fits in your pocket might actually be more appealing than the N900 Feb 11 00:57:26 There may be plans ruight now being made by naked people in saunas. Feb 11 00:57:39 the saunas are more likely than the plans Feb 11 00:58:00 Nokia should release the nPad Feb 11 00:58:08 They have Feb 11 00:59:05 http://shop.nokia.co.uk/nokia-uk/product.aspx?sku=10198003&culture=en-GB Feb 11 00:59:48 that' just a netbook, I think he means a giant version of the tablets Feb 11 00:59:57 Boo... Windows 7 Feb 11 01:00:18 Google News rumors says it eats up netbook batteries and Microsoft is downplaying it, blaming the hardware Feb 11 01:00:21 Or something that Feb 11 01:00:22 *something like that Feb 11 01:00:26 OMFG i think i got ofono working on fedora Feb 11 01:00:36 zomg Feb 11 01:01:07 But yes, I'd be tempted to pay $500-$800 for a giant N900 Feb 11 01:01:11 I want a similar thing to the above - but with a trackpoint. Feb 11 01:01:48 can someone run this for me on maemo5/n900? dpkg -S /sbin/phonet Feb 11 01:01:54 Annoyingly I already have on e - which is slightly lighter - but it's PII/300 Feb 11 01:02:10 jebba, do you know if handsfree works with ofono yet? Feb 11 01:02:21 tripzero: no Feb 11 01:02:32 phonet-utils jebba Feb 11 01:02:34 i'd love to use handsfree with my n900 and my car (which runs linux) Feb 11 01:02:36 SpeedEvil: thz Feb 11 01:02:53 SpeedEvil: hmm, that looks closed :( Feb 11 01:03:04 goddammit Feb 11 01:03:34 i was hoping to get something along the lines of a free software fone call on n900. Feb 11 01:04:15 hmm Feb 11 01:04:25 the n900 may not be the target for ofono Feb 11 01:04:29 maybe the n900+1? Feb 11 01:06:06 why? Feb 11 01:06:28 sup Feb 11 01:06:32 ofono? Feb 11 01:06:34 whats that Feb 11 01:06:42 which is a reason we love open protocols like sip Feb 11 01:06:47 :( Feb 11 01:07:06 how does ofono communicate with the phone? Feb 11 01:07:09 satmd: ofono and SIP are totally different. Feb 11 01:07:23 acidjazz: http://ofono.org/ Feb 11 01:07:25 * satmd spends some time to find out Feb 11 01:07:36 satmd: ofono uses phonet kernel driver Feb 11 01:08:00 oh, I see Feb 11 01:08:08 yeah, my sip was totally off, sorry Feb 11 01:08:52 np Feb 11 02:09:27 duh, >60min quiet planet Feb 11 02:09:47 jebba: open GSM interface? forget it Feb 11 02:14:03 DocScrutinizer: one can dream... Feb 11 02:15:07 I (co)created MOKO11 calypso FW. I forgot how to dream :-S Feb 11 02:15:42 and FR has a tty AT interface, no phonet pnatd crap Feb 11 02:18:25 when I see pnatd I guess the N900 TI modem has one of those nasty shared-mem interfaces Feb 11 02:19:18 DocScrutinizer: and that sentence is exactly why you weren't hanging out with the cool kids at school. Feb 11 02:19:31 the specs for those will be disclosed when we start communicating via corelated quantum Feb 11 02:19:58 didnt know your background had some low level phone stuff DocScrutinizer - what was most of your work in? Feb 11 02:20:04 crashanddie: I *was* the cool kid :-D Feb 11 02:20:19 DocScrutinizer i'm not using pnatd crap Feb 11 02:20:34 no AT interface. Using isimodem driver. Feb 11 02:22:08 crashanddie: though back when cool had a different meaning than today Feb 11 02:22:23 DocScrutinizer: as in frigid? You didn't put out? Feb 11 02:23:24 crashanddie: nah, cool as in we've been the hippies Feb 11 02:25:01 DocScrutinizer the kernel driver is free software and ofono is free software. The thing that does the setup is non free. It just runs: /sbin/phonet -a 0x6C -i phonet0 Feb 11 02:25:55 jebba: err, the kernel driver for talking to the modem is free? Feb 11 02:26:10 all n900 kernel drivers are free AFAICT. Feb 11 02:26:43 so what's pnatd doing then? Feb 11 02:27:09 ./net/phonet/af_phonet.c Feb 11 02:27:42 pnatd is when people are trying to use the AT interface, which it also emulates. But you can just access phonet0 directly with ofono Feb 11 02:27:50 hmm, to tired and foul mood today to dive into that Feb 11 02:28:21 jebba: /dev/opono0 ?? Feb 11 02:28:36 err Feb 11 02:28:45 jebba: /dev/phonet0 ?? Feb 11 02:28:53 no, with isimodem there is no /dev, since it *doesn't* act like a regular modem. Feb 11 02:29:31 note, ofono doesn't come with n900/maemo, its a different phone stack than what comes on the phone Feb 11 02:29:45 a network interface inste*d? Feb 11 02:29:45 I know Feb 11 02:30:07 N900evil: yes, there is ifconfig phonet0, for instance Feb 11 02:30:30 ofono is the "middleware" stack that shouted "NIH" to FSO Feb 11 02:30:31 hmm Feb 11 02:30:42 FSO? Feb 11 02:30:52 freesmartphone.org Feb 11 02:30:57 ah. Feb 11 02:31:11 DocScrutinizer, as far as I'm aware they addressed that pretty conclusively. Feb 11 02:31:32 what does FSO use in place of ofono? Feb 11 02:31:52 http://blogs.gnome.org/bolsh/2009/05/20/too-many-platforms/ Feb 11 02:32:20 GeneralAntilles: addressed what? FSO? I read a statement of ofono ppl like "FSO is just talking AT over dbus", which is definitely a lie Feb 11 02:33:20 jebba: probably fsogsmd Feb 11 02:35:42 can the FSO parts above ofono interact with it? Feb 11 02:36:04 not (yet?) Feb 11 02:36:48 or even isimodem could be ported to fsogsmd Feb 11 02:37:55 http://linuxtogo.org/~mickeyl/misc/FOSDEM2010.pdf Feb 11 02:38:27 damn, big pdf ;) Feb 11 02:39:05 yo Feb 11 02:40:40 jebba: p37ff Feb 11 02:41:41 p37ff? Feb 11 02:42:30 page 37 and following. on p46 you see fsogsmd for FSO2 Feb 11 02:42:53 for FSO1 it's been fso-abyss **** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Feb 11 02:59:57 2010