**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Feb 16 02:59:57 2010 Feb 16 03:11:15 is maemo going to die or continue to coexist along meego Feb 16 03:11:39 Think of it as an evolution, not a death =P Feb 16 03:11:48 It's merging with Moblin to become MeeGo. Feb 16 03:12:07 so what will happen to devices with maemo on them (n900) ? Feb 16 03:12:11 will they update to meego? Feb 16 03:12:20 anamal, currently unknown. Feb 16 03:12:37 Seems likely, though. Feb 16 03:12:41 thats awesome Feb 16 03:12:50 good going guys Feb 16 03:14:14 afaik, Maemo 6 will basically just be Meego... Feb 16 03:14:25 i cant get into madde Feb 16 03:14:34 i just installed it in ubuntu Feb 16 03:14:36 hm but meego uses rpm, and maemo uses deb Feb 16 03:14:49 i dont know to get in mad terminal Feb 16 03:14:50 Bah! Not this RPM and DEB thing again. :( Feb 16 03:14:51 MikeJB, sort of. Feb 16 03:15:04 madde Feb 16 03:15:04 Incredible what a shitty job nokia did on that announcement. And I always thought our OM speaksmen where on top of spoiling it Feb 16 03:15:15 can anyone help me ? Feb 16 03:15:27 I've used Fedora for years, I've used Debian a few times, and there's no end-user difference. The main difference is "apt-get install foo" instead of "yum install foo" Feb 16 03:15:30 :P Feb 16 03:15:58 It's interesting to see in which ways Debian is more faithful to upstream packages and in which ways Fedora is, though. Feb 16 03:15:59 MikeJB: hmm, tend to agree Feb 16 03:16:14 really easy apt-get ans aptitude Feb 16 03:16:45 deb are the futur ? Feb 16 03:16:50 yes Feb 16 03:17:02 deb is popular because Debian *and* Ubuntu use it. Feb 16 03:17:27 rpm is used by Fedora and openSUSE, but openSUSE has been of declining popularity in recent years ever since Novell's deal with /s/Satan/Microsoft Feb 16 03:17:47 could've been worse, we could have merged with android, webos or even samsung bada Feb 16 03:17:50 So deb has more packages, which is a moot point with meego Feb 16 03:17:56 .-10 Feb 16 03:17:57 since everything has to be recompiled anyway, or so I've heard. Feb 16 03:18:42 uhsf: Merging with Android would solve everything, actually. Native Google apps support + *real* Linux framework under it, would be my dream. Feb 16 03:18:59 thats it and thats not a problem at all Feb 16 03:18:59 Hello #maemo. I'm trying to tether my laptop to my n900 and I'm dangerously close. I have the bluetooth-dun package on my n900, and have edited the /etc/bluetooth/main.conf to not disable networking. I've got blueman running on my Fedora 12 laptop and it sees the phone and NetworkManager starts trying to do stuff with it, but it ultimately fails saying "... failed to connect ...". Any clues welcome! Feb 16 03:19:06 ah its been brought up eh Feb 16 03:19:10 Android is good if you like Google, and has more apps, but Maemo is truer to Linux... Feb 16 03:19:15 i disagree i hate google Feb 16 03:19:16 SpeedEvil: renice -10 :-P Feb 16 03:19:19 ? Feb 16 03:19:22 Which makes it tough for a Google-and-Fedora-using person to choose Feb 16 03:19:50 MikeJB: Android would only be good as a compatibility layer between X11 and a real Linux environment Feb 16 03:19:54 uhsf: I dislike Google, but I hate Bing and Yahoo more than Google, thus limiting my choices... to Google. Feb 16 03:20:09 Just like voting for a politician, you choose for the *least* evil. Feb 16 03:20:22 or you run for office yourself Feb 16 03:20:29 why would any sane person need millions of apps like android or iphone Feb 16 03:20:37 microlith: you've got the right idea there Feb 16 03:20:50 i don't feel limited in apps with maemo Feb 16 03:20:51 uhsf: Actually, Ovi Store kinda doesn't have enough apps Feb 16 03:20:54 and when you can't get a majority on your own, you merge your parties! Feb 16 03:20:59 Relative to the par. Feb 16 03:21:10 ovi store doesn't have anything Feb 16 03:21:11 If there's one big mark against Maemo atm, it's number of apps. Feb 16 03:21:23 but extras/extras-testing is great Feb 16 03:21:40 MikeJB, stupid number Feb 16 03:21:42 the millions android and iphones apps all suck. i prefer my old faithful linux apps anyday Feb 16 03:21:53 The first version of MeeGo will be available in the second half of 2010, and Nokia promises a product that builds on the Nokia N900 to begin with. By using the Qt framework, MeeGo will ensure that third-party developers will be available to reach the wide range of product types mentioned above. Feb 16 03:21:53 oops sorry for the paste Feb 16 03:21:56 MikeJB, have you SEEN the sort of shit they spew onto the app stores? :P Feb 16 03:22:22 GeneralAntilles: Yes. Flashlight apps, etc. Feb 16 03:22:36 The reason I say Maemo doesn't have enough is becaues it's actually lacking some useful things other stores have. Feb 16 03:22:45 like what? Feb 16 03:22:59 uhsf: like more than one polished game? Feb 16 03:23:04 The android app store is bullshytt. Feb 16 03:23:20 i don't game, i didn't buy the n900 for games Feb 16 03:23:22 You can barely find an SSH client in there. Feb 16 03:23:37 anamal: i read "builds on" pessimistically Feb 16 03:23:40 (1) lots of games actually does affect adoptation of a platform, ask all the annoying people who say "Ubuntu is great, but I like to play foo Windows games." Feb 16 03:24:05 Popularity and worthiness have never been correlated in any field of human endeavor. Feb 16 03:24:07 wiretapped: haha Feb 16 03:24:27 Wish I could tether my damn f12 box though. Feb 16 03:24:44 yes human endeavor, that sounds good, i'll look up that word Feb 16 03:25:21 I also looked everywhere for a ssh client Feb 16 03:25:39 (2) Honestly, I'm not the best person to ask, because I don't have an iPhone, a Nexus One, a Palm Pre, a WinMo 7 phone, a Blackberry whatever, and an N900 on hand right now... I left them all upstairs. Feb 16 03:26:19 (Don't ask me about the data bill. :P) Feb 16 03:26:25 * GeneralAntilles hands wiretapped a drink. Feb 16 03:26:33 jfm3: you seen the wikipage(s)? Feb 16 03:27:14 DocScrutinizer: That's how I got this far. Feb 16 03:27:43 k. So no more helpful info here. Sorry Feb 16 03:27:54 it's quite interesting to be looking at the tmo threads regarding the elections Feb 16 03:28:02 and more interesting even to see who thanked in them... Feb 16 03:28:11 Except for the usual bunch, not a single Maemo contributor thanked in those threads Feb 16 03:28:22 They don't give a shit about the Community, and now they crya bout MeeGo Feb 16 03:28:26 wankers Feb 16 03:29:22 crashanddie, er, which thread? Feb 16 03:29:52 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=44623 and http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=44036 for example Feb 16 03:29:53 crashanddie: i think its generally excepted that engineers are not always the best communicators Feb 16 03:30:02 GeneralAntilles: exactly. /me wonders how to bother about tmo at all. Unbearable to use that webforum shit Feb 16 03:30:12 oh feck zgold, maemo community isn't made of engineers Feb 16 03:30:24 crashanddie: of course not, but many of the open source coders are Feb 16 03:30:34 zgold: this is clicking on a bloody button to thank someone for saying something useful, not requiring any particular skill Feb 16 03:31:10 crashanddie: i dont think tis the skill. I don't mean to be in any way rude when I say this, but i think its just the caring level Feb 16 03:31:41 zgold: which is different from what I said, how exactly? :P Feb 16 03:31:51 crashanddie: my point is i dont think you can blame them for not caring Feb 16 03:31:58 crashanddie: Feb 16 03:32:08 crashanddie: here (on Konqueror) not even the button shows up ;-P Feb 16 03:32:19 DocScrutinizer: get a real browser Feb 16 03:32:25 I need to find some glue for my stand magnet Feb 16 03:32:51 crashanddie: if on one hand you had big threads of coders screaming about wanting a voice, and then in another thread them not voting or thanking, then maybe; but in general i think a silent engineer is not an anomaly Feb 16 03:33:11 zgold: but they're not coders or engineers, bloody hell Feb 16 03:33:27 zgold: if you believe that the main part of the maemo community are engineers or coders, you are sorely mistaken Feb 16 03:33:42 zgold: the biggest part these days are people who use the device, not developers. Feb 16 03:33:47 the most vocal, anyway Feb 16 03:34:39 zgold: and there's really no need to preach to the choir, especially considering you have no credentials in my book! Feb 16 03:35:03 thats fine. I'm just a lurker who decided to chat a lot today, having been stimulated by meego. Feb 16 03:35:25 heh, the meego mailing lists is a bit dodgy... "We have received a request from 127.0.0.1 for subscription" Feb 16 03:35:30 MeEgo Feb 16 03:35:32 oh really, I'm on 127.0.0.1? Feb 16 03:35:54 crashanddie: aye sir! I assume tmo "optimized for microsoft browser" Feb 16 03:36:10 DocScrutinizer: works fine here in either firefox or safari Feb 16 03:36:17 lmao http://www.weego.org/ Feb 16 03:36:20 "optimized for microsoft internet" Feb 16 03:36:46 "a [...] project designed for one simple purpose: to get cars off the road." <-- Destruction derby! Feb 16 03:37:00 * GeneralAntilles cleans the crap out of his N900. Feb 16 03:37:14 GeneralAntilles: qwerty gave a good tool on how to do it Feb 16 03:37:15 GeneralAntilles: fingerprints? Feb 16 03:37:44 microlith, pocket lint in the battery bay. Feb 16 03:37:49 crashanddie: basically even with that button nothing could make me check that webforum annoyance frequently Feb 16 03:37:51 ouch Feb 16 03:38:59 woops Feb 16 03:39:10 anyway, going back to coding Feb 16 03:39:14 HL me if needed Feb 16 03:41:23 ok rebooting Feb 16 03:41:45 as soon as i started asking that intel guy on #meego about community and saying intel are holding all the power he never chattedagain since Feb 16 03:42:01 whyhi, he went to dinner. :P Feb 16 03:42:17 whyhi, honestly, they don't know any more than we do. Feb 16 03:42:18 nice time for him to go lol Feb 16 03:42:27 whyhi, because the community stuff hasn't been decided yet. Feb 16 03:43:19 they must have plan there problem is implementing without losing the support of the other i'm sure Feb 16 03:44:25 i'm just going to ride it out, i'm excite for the future just wish they announced more to put everyone on ease Feb 16 03:44:27 ok seems i configured everything ok except its laggy Feb 16 03:44:38 and that i need a virtual keyboard Feb 16 03:45:24 whyhi: +1 Feb 16 03:46:01 At least for the community stuff it's being left to us. Feb 16 03:46:35 too bad none of them are here in Folsom Feb 16 03:47:02 we must make sure we elect strong characters in maemo elections to push our ideals forward Feb 16 03:47:15 general are u running Feb 16 03:47:24 whyhi, think so. Feb 16 03:47:34 you get my vote for sure Feb 16 03:48:11 Jaffa's running too Feb 16 03:48:16 Hopefully I can convince a few others to run Feb 16 03:49:27 things are in development and flux for everyone Feb 16 03:50:06 incl ppl at nokia and intel Feb 16 03:50:29 have you subscribed to youtube meego channel? Feb 16 03:50:31 ... could I need to set up a dhcp server on the n900? Feb 16 03:51:35 i've only got fuel for a few things. not caring about the rest Feb 16 03:51:40 jfm3: yes Feb 16 03:52:33 heres channel if anyone as not seen it http://www.youtube.com/user/MeeGoProject ironicly comments not allowed on videos lol Feb 16 03:54:09 that isn't necessarily ironic Feb 16 03:54:44 I think neither Nokia nor Intel understand what Open Source means. Feb 16 03:55:29 oh? Feb 16 03:56:11 I think it's more that they don't grasp Free Software (or rather, they're not interested in that aspect.) Feb 16 03:57:17 hmm.. I could have sworn Nokia released Qt under the LGPL Feb 16 03:57:22 they did Feb 16 03:58:41 * pupnik_ plays with fosdem blisters Feb 16 03:58:44 i think they will get there in the end they have no choice really nokia are left without a proprietary platform so they have to lear fast Feb 16 03:59:02 learn Feb 16 03:59:16 both symbian and maemo are open source Feb 16 04:37:02 m00f Feb 16 04:37:04 what's new? Feb 16 04:43:34 oohh nuthin much Feb 16 04:45:51 just (more progress) on the drivers for the N8x0 and that meego thing, huh? :D Feb 16 04:54:08 johnx, welcome back to the madhouse. Feb 16 04:54:24 thanks Feb 16 04:54:49 What grand adventures did you get up to? Feb 16 04:55:29 in summary: workworkwork. raise! woo! moving (next monday) and still waiting for my freakin' pandora :P Feb 16 04:55:51 Sounds fun Feb 16 04:55:53 played some video games, generally relaxed a bit, spent time in the real world Feb 16 04:56:04 We're just shaking things up here Feb 16 04:56:16 yup. saw the news. that's why I'm back early Feb 16 04:56:17 don't want anybody to get too comfortable. Feb 16 04:56:42 Very few answers Feb 16 04:56:43 quite interested in how this will affect that project I was going to return to once I got new hardware to play with Feb 16 04:56:59 really, really stoked about intel and nokia finally working together Feb 16 04:57:10 though looking back, all the signs were there for a long time Feb 16 04:57:15 Yeah, RIP Maemo, though. :( Feb 16 04:57:50 meh. what's in a name? Feb 16 04:58:02 a lot, apparently Feb 16 04:58:27 sMeeGo(l) Feb 16 04:58:30 though I'm not terribly stoked about RPM... Feb 16 04:58:59 wow im bulding qt librairy to process started 2 hours ago just for the make Feb 16 04:59:23 is it normal ? Feb 16 04:59:33 its on a fast computer Feb 16 04:59:41 i mean quite fast Feb 16 04:59:51 qt is not small. quite not small Feb 16 05:00:00 qt takes a long time to build, especially webkit Feb 16 05:04:43 yes Feb 16 05:04:55 i just past that part Feb 16 05:05:41 'im gonna try to build a maemo desktop version based on qt via madde Feb 16 05:05:55 johnx, a lot Feb 16 05:06:11 johnx, sounds like a Fisher Price product. Feb 16 05:06:32 when we are building stuff if i understood well we can share them on mer that's it ? Feb 16 05:06:38 if the name is the biggest complaint, we're doing pretty darn good I think Feb 16 05:06:54 wich name meego ? Feb 16 05:06:58 or maemo ? Feb 16 05:07:05 meego Feb 16 05:07:14 i like it a lot Feb 16 05:07:15 (and yes, the name is stupider than even moblin) Feb 16 05:07:20 johnx, it's not, but it's the one that's got me most depressed. Feb 16 05:07:29 i dont see why ppl would be complaining Feb 16 05:07:32 or they ? Feb 16 05:07:36 are Feb 16 05:07:36 with moblin at least we had a chance of the mascot being the moblin goblin Feb 16 05:07:54 dunno. meego sounds pretty silly to my ears Feb 16 05:08:12 a question, meego is moblin + maemo that's it ? Feb 16 05:08:18 yup Feb 16 05:08:26 is it made with madde ? Feb 16 05:08:32 jacquesdptd-mob2, part of it is because a lot of us have a lot of attachment with Maemo and maemo.org. Feb 16 05:09:03 i think it's different and maemo will be continuing as long as ppl work on it Feb 16 05:09:20 to me maemo sounds the best Feb 16 05:09:27 name-wise Feb 16 05:09:30 :D Feb 16 05:09:31 if maemo is evolving meego will still be new maemo + moblin Feb 16 05:09:37 errr, the people who getting paid to work on maemo are now working on meego (AFAICT) Feb 16 05:10:10 you think ppl that bought a noka n900 will be able to update there devices to meego then ? Feb 16 05:10:22 nope. probably not Feb 16 05:10:29 ok Feb 16 05:10:30 (officially at least) Feb 16 05:10:45 that was already settled back in october though Feb 16 05:11:17 OTOH, maemo5+qt4.6 and meego+qt4.6 are supposed to be pretty compatible (again, AFAIK) Feb 16 05:11:17 johnx, actually, current winds seem to be moving in the "Yes, possibly" direction. Feb 16 05:11:29 second question, i'm searching for this type of os but for a fast computer transform in a tablet resistive touch screen of 15 inch screen with good nvidia chipset, i would like a finger useable interface smooth plenty of effect Feb 16 05:11:44 anyody's got and idea of something i might be not knowing ? Feb 16 05:11:50 It's much more likely now with MeeGo than it was a week ago, though, so. Feb 16 05:12:18 so ? Feb 16 05:12:40 GeneralAntilles, if meego for n900 materializes, I'll be pleasantly surprised Feb 16 05:13:03 johnx, so, basically, combing through damn near every scrap of information and chatter that's come up today. Feb 16 05:13:21 johnx, it sounds like the issue is still down to multitouch and that they're likely still undecided. Feb 16 05:13:31 MeeGo pretty clearly pushes away from the multi issue. Feb 16 05:13:57 multitouch will make producers of device like me obliged to buy sensitive screen Feb 16 05:14:11 if you say so. I think the clearest thing is that companies don't like putting a lot of time into things that don't make them money Feb 16 05:14:18 wich are a lot more expensive Feb 16 05:14:36 saddly you're right Feb 16 05:14:48 johnx, in a short-sighted sense, anyway. Feb 16 05:14:55 reducing cost price = reducing sell price Feb 16 05:15:34 jacquesdptd-mob2, sorry, I was talking to GeneralAntilles. I have no real feeling on multitouch accept that "it makes good demo" Feb 16 05:15:53 ok so another question , what would be better on meego between moblin i'm running on ? Feb 16 05:16:00 GeneralAntilles, find me a company that's not consistently not short-sighted Feb 16 05:16:24 johnx you're right plus there's not usb panel kit sensitive touch add Feb 16 05:16:35 johnx, to a certain extent I'd argue Apple is one of them. Feb 16 05:16:40 it's only resitive Feb 16 05:16:46 people will be making apps for meego two years from now. they won't be making them for moblin Feb 16 05:17:19 i must admit i have an iphone and sensitive screen are really much appreciated to navigage Feb 16 05:17:23 and itneract Feb 16 05:17:26 GeneralAntilles, yeah. it looks like they've set up a game plan where they plan to do this stuff in advance though Feb 16 05:17:32 for a finger use Feb 16 05:18:11 GeneralAntilles, also, a big part of apple's business plan includes "making people think we're awesome" Feb 16 05:18:26 johnx, it isn't all RDF, however. Feb 16 05:18:30 and they're not afraid to throw lots of money into R&D Feb 16 05:18:45 that's it Feb 16 05:19:24 but remember that if you're too scarry to fight with sames weapon that you do not agree that they can be used, you'll get beaten Feb 16 05:19:29 "we need more expertise on ARM systems in house, so we'll just go out and buy PA Semi" Feb 16 05:19:52 heh Feb 16 05:20:05 johnx, that A4 is a damn impressive piece of hardware, though. Feb 16 05:20:16 how much ram does a4 use? Feb 16 05:20:21 cortex A9 + ??? GPU Feb 16 05:20:26 Mali Feb 16 05:20:30 i think there's a big place to make a big website selling everything to make is own touch / mid /net,notbook devices Feb 16 05:20:38 the impressive part is that the first one shipping an A9 unless I'm quite mistaken Feb 16 05:20:42 i mean motherboard boxes everything well Feb 16 05:20:44 Which makes it the first large-scale production ARM SoC to use either. Feb 16 05:20:49 and the Mali Feb 16 05:21:00 Which pretty severely kicks ImagTech's ass. Feb 16 05:21:28 but the PVR architecture is sooo coooool Feb 16 05:21:34 * johnx really wanted it to win out Feb 16 05:21:58 you dont recommand me to use arm proc on a bigger device like a tablet of 15 inch screen Feb 16 05:22:22 A9 the 2GHz chip set? Feb 16 05:22:46 A9 is 2Ghz? Feb 16 05:22:55 supposed to multitask and be used on a professional or family way Feb 16 05:22:56 I think it's 1GHz, actually. Feb 16 05:23:01 i was just reading an announcement regarding A9 i think let me find it Feb 16 05:23:03 yeah, dual 1Ghz Feb 16 05:23:07 iirc Feb 16 05:23:11 yeah Feb 16 05:23:24 whynot, problem will then be for the powerfull 3d chipset Feb 16 05:23:28 jacquesdptd-mob2, what resolution screen are you intending to drive? what kind of movie/graphics capabilities are you targeting? what kind of CPUs can you use (ie, do you need specific features of the OMAP3 that make it good for small runs)? Feb 16 05:23:38 my tablet have to be able to run a compiz like interface Feb 16 05:24:07 jacquesdptd-mob2, and you're designing the mainboard yourself? Feb 16 05:24:58 * RST38h moos at johnx evilly. Knew the MeeGo announcement will smoke him out to IRC again =) Feb 16 05:25:22 heh Feb 16 05:25:26 RST38h, heh. alright, you've lured me back in, and all it took was manipulating your employer to play nice with nokia :P Feb 16 05:25:37 whyhi, 2GHz is just the upper limit for A9. Feb 16 05:25:39 johnx: yea, yea...right... Feb 16 05:26:08 johnx: RedHat though... You know I could not have done that... Feb 16 05:26:55 RST38h, really? I always felt redhat was closer to slackware than debian was (or were you more gentoo than slackware?) Feb 16 05:28:08 heres the article i was reading earlier http://hothardware.com/News/ARM-GlobalFoundries-Detail-NextGeneration-28nm-Partnership/ Feb 16 05:29:09 johnnx not at all im working with notebook stuff Feb 16 05:29:16 that's why arm won't fit Feb 16 05:29:25 quad core A9? Thank you very much. Feb 16 05:31:20 still a while away but its a beast Feb 16 05:31:39 jacquesdptd-mob2, well, then that answers your question. if you're stuck with using a whole board you're basically down to 1) intel stuff or 2) openRD or 3) beagleboard Feb 16 05:37:03 ~join #meego Feb 16 05:37:16 I am not allowed to join #meego. Feb 16 05:37:25 crashanddie, talk to TimRiker. Feb 16 05:37:26 infobot: do you always do what your parents told you? Feb 16 05:37:27 yes, I always do what your parents told you. Feb 16 05:37:38 traitor lol Feb 16 05:37:59 infobot: wanker Feb 16 05:38:00 [wanker] giving the palm pilot a flight, massaging Kojak's head. Fuck, someone pass me the tissues. Feb 16 05:38:20 lol Feb 16 05:38:23 lol Feb 16 05:39:26 O_ol Feb 16 05:39:32 i'm sure i said i was going to bet 2 hours ago finished that vodka i opened only meant to have a glass Feb 16 05:39:45 bed Feb 16 05:39:57 hi there Feb 16 05:39:58 whyhi, drink some water first :P Feb 16 05:39:59 morning qgil Feb 16 05:40:06 hey qgil :) Feb 16 05:40:12 someone willing to have a chat about MeeGo? Feb 16 05:40:15 hey johnx & qgil Feb 16 05:40:19 qgil, have been all day. Feb 16 05:40:22 this must be the less noisy time of the "day" at #maemo :) Feb 16 05:40:22 allo crashanddie Feb 16 05:40:23 qgil: about 300 people in #meego want to Feb 16 05:40:23 * GeneralAntilles is still super confused. Feb 16 05:40:29 qgil, love to :) Feb 16 05:40:30 yea i will vodka and coke gives lot of acid Feb 16 05:40:30 ah ok, you're right Feb 16 05:40:37 I could just go there Feb 16 05:40:51 so are you all at #meego? Feb 16 05:41:00 yup Feb 16 05:41:01 pretty much Feb 16 05:41:05 all of us who matter Feb 16 05:41:53 johnx: i like your attitude Feb 16 05:42:04 iok Feb 16 05:42:09 that's good. I like my attitude too :) Feb 16 05:42:10 hey now Feb 16 05:42:16 beagle board are not sufficient i guess Feb 16 05:42:28 johnx: Being close to Slackware is not a compliment Feb 16 05:42:35 heard enlightnment is made to fit perfectly with beagle board Feb 16 05:42:38 * RST38h is a BSD guy Feb 16 05:42:42 RST38h, well, we can both agree on that Feb 16 05:51:33 GeneralAntilles: How long have I been screaming that Maemo's biggest issue was the fact that there were too many toolkits, languages and fragmented libraries all over the place? Feb 16 05:52:03 crashanddie, dunno, I tuned it out. :P Feb 16 05:53:07 crashanddie, at the very least I'm with you in that I agree on intelkia (noktel?) are best of "blessing" one of each "thing" (one toolkit, pkg format, build env, sdk, type of sandwich, etc) Feb 16 05:53:20 aye Feb 16 05:53:51 With regards to the whole rpm vs deb war, I'd like to say: Opinions are like asshole, everybody's got one. Now that's not a reason to shove yours in my face, is it? Feb 16 05:54:49 crashanddie++ Feb 16 05:55:15 big fan of deb, but if that's one of the points nokia had to concede to intel, then it was well worth it Feb 16 05:55:25 there isn't too many maemo toolkits. gtk vs. qt is just that perpetual linux wide futile duality. there's not much that can be done about it Feb 16 05:55:41 this just means meego has all the more momentum as a real first-class desktop that other distros will be supporting Feb 16 05:56:15 johnx: RedHat base will be a huge minus though Feb 16 05:56:40 as for pkg, i'm a fan of arch's pacman. way better than any debs, portage or rpm. but who am i to impose my opinion Feb 16 05:57:59 it's just a question about taste and there is nothing that will prevent someone to install another package manager and use it :P Feb 16 05:58:29 RST38h, gnome started in RH-land and debuntu has adopted it quite well. I have a feeling with enough hands working on packaging it's not too big a deal to end up with something meego-based in $your_fav_distro Feb 16 05:59:23 uhsf, heh. I actually like the OE/opkg system. it's super easy, but I'm not a big fan of building everything from the ground up Feb 16 06:01:49 FWIW, a nice intel-person told me they wanted to work together with maemo/nokia almost a year ago and I wrote them off as optimistic :) Feb 16 06:02:41 johnx: when I moved to London, I wanted to get an interview with OpenedHand as they worked on Maemo for Nokia. When I arrived I never even got an interview, as Intel had bought them and frozen all hiring. Feb 16 06:02:49 johnx: this was 2 years ago now Feb 16 06:03:00 crash: Ho ho ho Feb 16 06:03:08 :D Feb 16 06:03:22 A guy in #moblin confirmed to me that indeed, a lot of their expertise was brought over to Moblin Feb 16 06:03:37 the intel-person I talked to was actually working in the moblin project and visited the mer booth I was running at LinuxFest NorthWest :) Feb 16 06:03:54 johnx: don't say that Feb 16 06:03:57 "northwest" Feb 16 06:04:05 has a pretty bad connotation in Europe Feb 16 06:04:13 Northwest is where lcuk comes from, you see Feb 16 06:04:16 Great movie. :P Feb 16 06:04:33 http://www.google.com/search?q=linuxfest+northwest Feb 16 06:22:41 hem Feb 16 06:23:50 seems this guy who's getting me ashamed of being french with this horrible accent he has, has made exactly what i was going to do but thank to him he didn't made everything i was about to make :) Feb 16 06:25:16 saddly i can't link the pasteboard Feb 16 06:25:25 on virtuabox Feb 16 06:25:33 i won't be able to past the video Feb 16 06:26:35 the video is called on you tube always innovating touchbook - the coolest computer ever!!! Feb 16 06:26:57 touchbook, hehe, tell that to Macer Feb 16 06:27:11 i even don't care about macer Feb 16 06:27:31 im so much hesitating with that beagle board Feb 16 06:27:38 seems it's the future Feb 16 06:28:44 but for now it aint powerfull enought for the interface i want to have, i want to make a very classy perfect device Feb 16 06:28:45 but he has some good ideas Feb 16 06:30:15 lenovo is doing something touchbook-like as well Feb 16 06:30:23 his interface is really horrible, i'm starting from the idea that don't try to use a 3d rendering effect interface if it's even a little little bit laggy Feb 16 06:30:27 Lenovo. Feb 16 06:30:32 i think it's wasting everything Feb 16 06:30:37 * RST38h excuses himself Feb 16 06:30:46 RST38h, :) Feb 16 06:31:00 http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=528589&postcount=606 really illustrates the community is adapting Feb 16 06:31:02 better to use a non composite rendering for that kind of stuff Feb 16 06:31:25 what will be happend to maemo with meego? Feb 16 06:34:43 hello, people. can you see this on the n900? http://imgh.us/Shadok_-_Pluie_3.svg (i'm making tests) Feb 16 06:35:07 seeing it animated, i mean Feb 16 06:35:07 un shadok Feb 16 06:35:13 oué :p Feb 16 06:35:42 no animation firefox 3.6 Feb 16 06:36:08 argh. about:config: svg.smil.enabled set to true? Feb 16 06:37:02 svg.smil.enabled;true Feb 16 06:37:05 same Feb 16 06:37:12 need to restart firefox? Feb 16 06:37:25 i don't think so. refreshing should be enough Feb 16 06:37:53 pas d'animation Feb 16 06:37:54 d*mn. this is bad news :-( Feb 16 06:38:18 so maemo doesn't support smil? Feb 16 06:38:29 I'm not testing on my nokia Feb 16 06:38:39 on my desktop computer Feb 16 06:38:47 meh Feb 16 06:39:08 *then* your desktop has no excuse! (and i don't understand) Feb 16 06:39:17 s/men/meh Feb 16 06:39:47 maybe relaunch firefox (but i don't think this should be necessary) Feb 16 06:40:48 there's mer place in france ? Feb 16 06:41:02 hum animation is text appartition? Feb 16 06:41:32 Chiku: no, there is a cloud coming from the right, rain falling, etc. you don't see anything? Feb 16 06:41:33 on my nokia I see text displayed later Feb 16 06:41:49 yes, the bottom text comes at the end Feb 16 06:42:10 Chiku: what OS are you on? Feb 16 06:42:11 text in on top of pict Feb 16 06:42:18 PR1.1 Feb 16 06:42:27 OS on desktop? Feb 16 06:42:32 that text is always there, it is not animated Feb 16 06:42:37 pr1.1 ? Feb 16 06:42:43 maemo 5 Feb 16 06:42:44 (pardon my french :p ) Feb 16 06:42:56 sur mon pc c'est seven 64 Feb 16 06:43:04 AHAHAHAH Feb 16 06:43:13 ya ds francais cool Feb 16 06:43:20 i need french people to work with me Feb 16 06:43:32 tu veux que je teste sur un freebsd et ubuntu ou debian ? j'ai ca aussi Feb 16 06:43:40 mais la flemme de les allumer Feb 16 06:43:54 it's not animated in ff3.6 either, maybe you did forget to save it properly? Feb 16 06:44:03 Chiku: oui, please. and actually i still don't get what your desktop is using Feb 16 06:44:15 we're talking aout an animated .sg ? Feb 16 06:44:20 .svg ? Feb 16 06:44:21 Trizt: it's working for others :-( Feb 16 06:44:29 jacquesdptd-mob2: yes Feb 16 06:44:39 in chromium it seems to anim, not ff Feb 16 06:44:41 made with inkscape ? Feb 16 06:44:59 breakfast,... I will be late Feb 16 06:45:05 cause that's a known issue Feb 16 06:45:22 btw not sure ff is supporting animated .svg Feb 16 06:45:30 chrome is Feb 16 06:45:31 jacquesdptd-mob2: no, with svg-edit, and handcoding with smil Feb 16 06:45:38 oki Feb 16 06:45:59 Trizt: thanks (for the chromium test) Feb 16 06:46:03 should be cheked with the new safari Feb 16 06:46:10 gimme back the adress Feb 16 06:46:19 i must have a mac somewhere Feb 16 06:46:32 http://imgh.us/Shadok_-_Pluie_3.svg Feb 16 06:46:47 wormsxulla; opera 10 works too Feb 16 06:46:52 ok just waiting my iphone to finish erasing the zero space Feb 16 06:46:58 in 2 minutes Feb 16 06:47:03 Trizt: :) Feb 16 06:47:05 opera is supporting it Feb 16 06:47:26 wormsxulla; with konqueror4 you will see all the parts displayed at once, no anim Feb 16 06:47:27 in 2 minutes i tell you if it works in safari Feb 16 06:47:34 gonna test in konkeror during this time Feb 16 06:47:38 Trizt: hehe Feb 16 06:47:41 oh ok Feb 16 06:48:08 konqueror is on ubuntu? Feb 16 06:48:15 wormsxulla; seamonkey 1 you get the first frame and there I did run out of browsers on my machine Feb 16 06:48:33 Trizt: yeah, seamonkey 1.x doesn't support smil at all Feb 16 06:48:42 kuuntu yes Feb 16 06:48:57 its prolly everywhere on a linux based systeme Feb 16 06:49:01 system Feb 16 06:49:12 you'd need sm2.0.2 and i'm not even sure it supports smil (sm is my browser of choice, though) Feb 16 06:49:18 just need to install kde and konqueror Feb 16 06:49:25 eh Feb 16 06:49:33 why would a browser support SMIL? Feb 16 06:49:57 http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=528791&postcount=425 <- semi-announcement of the MBX driver availability Feb 16 06:50:05 luke-jr: because it's implemented after svg, and firefox's implementation isn't even complete Feb 16 06:50:56 as in, 12 year old SMIL?? Feb 16 06:51:10 so the animation can't be seen at all on a n900? :-( Feb 16 06:51:16 luke-jr: yup! Feb 16 06:51:21 ... Feb 16 06:51:45 Stskeeps, what will happend to maemo with meego ? Feb 16 06:51:50 but you know what they say: "it's the future!" (and it's "easy" to code, compared to javascript) Feb 16 06:52:26 moblin and maemo will drop fro meego? Feb 16 06:52:52 does what merging mean? Feb 16 06:53:00 Chiku: all good questions Feb 16 06:54:09 meego = we go? :) Feb 16 06:54:12 ok usb bootable moblin created and started Feb 16 06:54:29 but except the grub boot menu it doesnt seems to be starting Feb 16 06:54:32 :) Feb 16 06:58:36 jacquesdptd-mob2: is it funny? ;) Feb 16 07:00:43 really yes Feb 16 07:00:51 i'm doing 10 stuff at a time Feb 16 07:01:18 this zero erasing stuff for iphone is a good good thing it's really faster now and it just finished Feb 16 07:01:36 jacques a dit : coucher Feb 16 07:01:39 for themoblin i'm gonna have to change tboot command not a problem Feb 16 07:01:46 hehe Feb 16 07:01:50 moblin on n900 ? Feb 16 07:01:53 ok testing your page on safari Feb 16 07:02:10 do you know the "jacques a dit" ? Feb 16 07:03:22 i know, i'm french Feb 16 07:03:47 il y a trop de francais ici Feb 16 07:03:49 what's the english name for that game i don't remember? Feb 16 07:04:01 simons says Feb 16 07:04:10 workign Feb 16 07:04:17 perfectly Feb 16 07:04:38 that's great, i see it on my iphone, gonna use those animated.svg Feb 16 07:05:07 except it's a bit laggy it can replace animation flash or java for iphone based websites Feb 16 07:05:11 good news Feb 16 07:05:18 Does anyone know the classic rock song/artist that's at the very end of this video? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFgLvT-ghrQ Feb 16 07:07:44 nope Feb 16 07:07:50 not hearing enought Feb 16 07:08:06 was happy to see youtube perfectly working on moblin 2 on virtuablbox on ubuntu Feb 16 07:10:53 YouTube HTML5 beta is nice. Feb 16 07:11:11 yeeeha Feb 16 07:11:15 i was just totally right Feb 16 07:11:55 i made moblin working on usb live boot on a sempron 2000 and nvidia chipset and it works perfectly Feb 16 07:15:25 hi Feb 16 07:15:39 I am new to Maemo and Linux environment Feb 16 07:15:50 hi Feb 16 07:15:51 welcome kamal :) Feb 16 07:16:10 I would like to know how to install 3rd party application on N900 Feb 16 07:16:34 without using GPRS or Wireless connection Feb 16 07:16:36 is there a .deb built for N900? Feb 16 07:16:43 if you have the .deb Feb 16 07:16:52 sudo gainroot Feb 16 07:16:56 dpkg -i foobar.dev Feb 16 07:17:05 no I don't have Feb 16 07:17:07 but then again if you havent enabled R&D mode that wont work Feb 16 07:17:12 and then i cant help :) Feb 16 07:17:39 how do I get itwhat is R&D mode and where can I find more info on it Feb 16 07:17:44 why can you not use wireless? Feb 16 07:18:19 kamal: install rootsh Feb 16 07:18:44 I don't have access to one now. I was wondering is there any way we can do it as we do for symbian phones Feb 16 07:18:53 by transfering the sis file Feb 16 07:18:55 and then installing it Feb 16 07:19:18 kamal: yes but you need the .deb Feb 16 07:19:23 like i said before Feb 16 07:19:29 you can, but I recommend against it Feb 16 07:19:48 on Maemo 5 (the N900's OS) the application manager counts on being able to automatically install any other packages that a program "depends" on Feb 16 07:20:17 so, even if you get the ".deb" file for a specific program, you have to solve the "dependencies" yourself and get all of those .deb files as well Feb 16 07:21:02 last question if you ahve a new topic? then I must really go onto other meeGo things Feb 16 07:21:25 hmm, i have an app that i want started on boot automatically, i guess I just make a script in /etc/rc2.d ? Feb 16 07:21:45 silence, so not too bad :) Feb 16 07:22:37 qgil, thanks for taking the time to brave the waters and answer questions :) Feb 16 07:22:39 silence about meego in #maemo? ;) Feb 16 07:23:15 Did they push PR1.1.1? Feb 16 07:23:38 ooooops Feb 16 07:23:55 say if I want to download the deb file for Capsule mentioned in this link http://maemo.org/downloads/Maemo5/graphics/ How do I get it? Feb 16 07:24:19 Likely a staggered global rollout again if so, so I'm in a position to know last. Feb 16 07:24:23 when I download I get an .install file Feb 16 07:24:35 GeneralAntilles: i don't see anything Feb 16 07:24:52 Stskeeps, Talk must just be seeing things again. Feb 16 07:25:15 GeneralAntilles: it's the meego socialist cabal putting things in our water Feb 16 07:25:25 kamal, you open the .install in a text editor, and manually go through the "repository" it mentions to find your files Feb 16 07:26:19 so, did everybody go apeshit about yesterdays announcement? Feb 16 07:26:36 yes, yes we did Feb 16 07:26:44 we've gone ape AND monkeyshit Feb 16 07:26:58 konttori_work: you have no idea how many discussions about rpm vs deb people have had.. Feb 16 07:27:01 :P Feb 16 07:27:08 s/discussions/trolls/ Feb 16 07:27:12 starting an install Feb 16 07:27:24 konttori_work, I'm still apeshit. Feb 16 07:27:35 seriously though, I think a lot of FUD right now and the comming week is inevitable seeing as how Nokia is kind of dodging questions right now. Feb 16 07:27:53 tybollt: otoh, nokia doesn't have all the answers, the plans are out of their hands atm Feb 16 07:28:00 and has to be weighed with well, meego community Feb 16 07:29:20 Stskeeps: Not talking about Meego per se. Meego to mee is an interesting project in the future. But as a device owner I have some amount of money invested and so I'm left speculating about the fate of it. Feb 16 07:29:43 tybollt: i will personally try to help get meego on n900 if it doesn't happen from vendor side. Feb 16 07:29:59 Stskeeps: sure, thanks, lovely. Feb 16 07:30:50 Stskeeps: I still think if Ari would've announced say "don't worry there will still be support for N900 phones" that'd comforted a fair few who right now may be a bit worried. Feb 16 07:31:08 tybollt, problem is, that, too, seems to be up in the air. Feb 16 07:31:23 instead people get edgy and go on here and other places and get foul mouthed :( Feb 16 07:31:58 Indeed Feb 16 07:32:04 Nokia really just needs to decide either way. Feb 16 07:32:12 (preferably the sane and justifiable one, but) Feb 16 07:32:55 redimensionning wow i m scared Feb 16 07:33:18 hi, does anyone know where the dictionary lives? Wanted to take some words out Feb 16 07:33:19 am i going to loose my ubuntu installation (i dont care its a test machine) Feb 16 07:34:31 kejen: in older versions you could tap-and-hold and remove Feb 16 07:35:22 I just woke up. I was having a nightmare; people were still whining about packaging. Feb 16 07:35:34 * ShadowJK sighs and goes back to bed Feb 16 07:35:37 ShadowJK: they still do Feb 16 07:36:18 only shows me cut, copy, and paste. Gotta be a text file somewhere i would think. Kinda like browser_typed_urls Feb 16 07:37:25 Night folks Feb 16 07:39:29 Stskeeps, I heard about that also yesterday for the first time. I can imagine the comments. Feb 16 07:39:38 hello. What's this new update people are talking about? Feb 16 07:39:49 fact is that n900 will have really great lifetime support. Feb 16 07:40:04 konttori_work, that's nice to hear :) Feb 16 07:40:42 it will come with qt4.6, (and later full web runtime support), so you should be able to develop content on n900 that will work the same on MeeGo Devices, of course, packaging will have the be done again, but that's life. Feb 16 07:40:52 konttori_work: i'm really astonished noone picked up on the fact DUI works on N900 Feb 16 07:40:59 :D Feb 16 07:41:01 then again, all the announcements came in a bundle Feb 16 07:41:03 yes, that's also interesting point. Feb 16 07:41:22 dui? Feb 16 07:41:27 maemo6 UI framework Feb 16 07:42:05 konttori_work: random question, there hasn't been a Maemo5 update today, right? Feb 16 07:42:14 konttori_work: people are seeing things but we think it's not true Feb 16 07:43:18 Stskeeps, not sure... there should be one this week, but I don't know the date. Feb 16 07:43:21 ah, PR1.1.1 Feb 16 07:43:26 today? Feb 16 07:43:34 seems so, it's on nokia_N900.php Feb 16 07:44:00 * Netrum checking Feb 16 07:44:23 nothing here tho.. Feb 16 07:44:44 woot Feb 16 07:44:47 updating to new maemo Feb 16 07:44:56 not for me :( Feb 16 07:45:11 hehe Feb 16 07:45:15 good that i stayed up so early Feb 16 07:45:21 2:45 am here Feb 16 07:45:29 it says restart to complete installation Feb 16 07:45:32 oookay Feb 16 07:46:33 mm need my usb cable Feb 16 07:48:49 I'm excited about MeeGo. I hope they make all MeeGo programs portable to all MeeGo platform, even if vendors use different front end UIs Feb 16 07:49:55 that would suck if apps became desktop UI spesific Feb 16 07:50:20 SouBE: Well, that is not possible anyway. Feb 16 07:50:36 SouBE: A small screen on a phone is so different from a netbook etc. Feb 16 07:50:49 SouBE: Just doesn't make sense to have it the same. Feb 16 07:50:58 is extras-devel still broken? Feb 16 07:51:05 * itdock is drunk, hopes he doesn't break his n900 with this update Feb 16 07:51:14 its doesnt show upp on my phone yet, nor on nsu. not sure if it should even show upp in nsu.. (i hate asking questions...) Feb 16 07:51:21 thresh: Should not? What was broken? Feb 16 07:51:22 yeah, it still is. Feb 16 07:51:29 W: Failed to fetch http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/dists/fremantle/free/binary-armel/Packages.gz Hash Sum mismatch Feb 16 07:52:31 thresh: Doesn't do that for me. Feb 16 07:52:46 it does from Russia, it seems. I'm not the only one. Feb 16 07:53:15 thresh: The origin doesn't have that problem, so it must be in the caching network. Feb 16 07:53:23 yes Feb 16 07:53:25 yeah, have that for week already? Feb 16 07:53:30 http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=4952791&postcount=10 Feb 16 07:53:41 that has worked for me when I have had it Feb 16 07:53:56 no guarantees Feb 16 07:53:57 no, i'd prefer that fixed Feb 16 07:54:01 than hacking around Feb 16 07:54:03 thresh: Really? That is weird. Feb 16 07:54:45 X-Fade: A-ha. what should I file a bug against? Feb 16 07:55:11 thresh: When I test from a few countries I don't have that problem. Feb 16 07:55:20 boring vga=current Feb 16 07:55:32 I do, from Moscow. A friend of mine from Saint Petersburg has the same problem. Feb 16 07:55:35 a chance i can run lowlevel 3 Feb 16 07:56:03 X-Fade: and i have this on different ISPs, so it couldnt be a network caching problem Feb 16 07:56:31 unless they actually use the same cache Feb 16 07:56:43 i meant squid or something Feb 16 07:56:45 thresh: I will request an akamai flush, let's see if that fixes it. Feb 16 07:56:50 X-Fade: thanks! Feb 16 07:57:32 thresh: Can you show me the http headers of the fetch? Feb 16 07:57:51 thresh: wget -S --delete-after http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/dists/fremantle/free/binary-armel/Packages.gz Feb 16 07:58:05 thresh: In a pastebin ;) Feb 16 07:58:37 X-Fade: sure, http://pastebin.ca/1798137 Feb 16 07:59:41 thresh: I see exactly the same and it works for me? Feb 16 08:02:29 well, how does apt check the hash sum? Feb 16 08:03:19 my md5 sum of Packages.gz is b42efbc2b291308be80d1eae5cc9dd1b Feb 16 08:03:28 thresh: Release file Feb 16 08:04:49 hmm, it matches the one in Releae :/ Feb 16 08:04:51 Release Feb 16 08:05:10 thresh: Uhm.. that is even weirder :) Feb 16 08:08:20 I had in Helsinki hash sum mismatch maybe a week back in time, but it's gone now Feb 16 08:08:23 X-Fade: hmmm, manually removing all apt lists seems to have fixed the issue Feb 16 08:08:51 debian's apt is beyond me Feb 16 08:09:12 so you have no repositories now? :) Feb 16 08:09:33 no, but I'm hitting https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8702 now :-))) Feb 16 08:09:34 Bug 8702: GPG error when updating Extras from repository.maemo.org Feb 16 08:10:06 just remember to reboot you device often enough :P Feb 16 08:10:45 I had strange hardware errors in kernel log. reboot helped Feb 16 08:21:44 thresh: I have found the issue in the caching network. Feb 16 08:22:01 X-Fade: nice, so it wasnt a local misconfiguration then? Feb 16 08:22:17 thresh: No, it is because of the cache duration on the mirrors. Feb 16 08:22:19 X-Fade: maybe you also know a solution for https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8702 i'm experiencing now? :-) Feb 16 08:22:20 Bug 8702: GPG error when updating Extras from repository.maemo.org Feb 16 08:22:41 thresh: They are caching for 30 minutes, but the start time is not synchronized. Feb 16 08:22:50 thresh: So there is a race condition there. Feb 16 08:23:02 hi Feb 16 08:24:12 did nokia told anything about meego for n900? I am on gprs so did not read any tmo talks Feb 16 08:24:37 Nope Feb 16 08:24:53 like I thoug Feb 16 08:24:56 ght Feb 16 08:26:08 brb Feb 16 08:26:41 re Feb 16 08:26:42 thresh: By waiting max an hour this should be fixed once an for all. Feb 16 08:27:03 thresh: I have changed the config, but you need to wait until your local edge server times out. Feb 16 08:28:12 even though qt is going to be the main ui for future maemo/meego...gtk apps can still be ran correct? Feb 16 08:28:33 kejen: gtk can always be installed. No matter what. Feb 16 08:28:49 kejen: It might not look as native, but that is just theming. Feb 16 08:29:03 X-Fade: alright. Feb 16 08:29:14 nice, would hate to lose pidgin Feb 16 08:30:26 piding seems to be a battery hog to me Feb 16 08:30:55 I see no need for pidgin now we have the contacts/conversation plugins. But yeah, you could run it. Feb 16 08:31:11 wish there was a reconnect now button on contacts/convs Feb 16 08:32:01 which plugins? Feb 16 08:32:15 kejen: What networks do you use? Feb 16 08:32:35 X-Fade, on n900, I'd have to agree. until the conversations UI is open though, pidgin (or empathy) will probably be necessary on meego-based devices from comapnies other than nokia Feb 16 08:32:43 jabber and need to be able to join chats is my only concern Feb 16 08:33:05 kejen: Supported by default. Feb 16 08:34:08 johnx: It is good enough for me now, but your needs might be different. Feb 16 08:34:24 right now, it's good enough for me too ;) Feb 16 08:34:35 just saying, there is still a reason for pidgin-hildon to exist Feb 16 08:34:40 johnx: It works and doesn't eat battery. Fine by me :) Feb 16 08:36:19 yeah, got onto jabber conversation out of the box. But didnt see how to join chats. I will play with it in the morning Feb 16 08:37:05 X-Fade: mmm seems to have fixed 8702 as well :-) Feb 16 08:37:22 X-Fade: thank you! Feb 16 08:37:41 thresh: that was a race condition between Release and Release.gpg Feb 16 08:37:48 thresh: In the caching network. Feb 16 08:38:04 why oh why it is always me Feb 16 08:38:35 thresh: You might actually be 2 cache layers away. Feb 16 08:46:19 i add this script to /etc/event.d/ Feb 16 08:46:21 http://pastebin.com/d67dfd1c9 Feb 16 08:46:32 but why the hell the application isn't started? Feb 16 08:46:36 (on reboot) Feb 16 08:47:53 it does try to connect to xserver, but shouldnt that be running at that point Feb 16 08:49:09 wtf Feb 16 08:49:36 my n900 hung, I pulled battery and on reboot cellular and wifi doesn't work Feb 16 08:51:33 * itdock is restoring apps after nokia software updater on n900 Feb 16 08:51:46 4 am Feb 16 08:51:48 don't want to sleep Feb 16 08:51:49 :P Feb 16 08:52:07 not enough patiene to wait for ssu? Feb 16 08:52:33 Morning, all Feb 16 08:52:42 couldn't OTA, don't feel like sorting out my extras-devel stuff Feb 16 08:53:00 sorry but I've had it w/ meego astroturfing for now :) Feb 16 08:55:19 lol Feb 16 08:57:16 tybollt, MeeGo? this is MAEMO!! (*300) Feb 16 08:58:08 tybollt, eh. you missed my reply. believe me, I'm the last one to fall on Intel's side, but if meego fails it won't be related to closed source drivers ;) Feb 16 08:58:23 mece: hence why I left #meego ;) Feb 16 09:01:12 onion: ping Feb 16 09:01:58 and morning all Feb 16 09:02:06 lardman, http://www.theonion.com/content/node/27978 Feb 16 09:03:16 lol Feb 16 09:04:04 :) Feb 16 09:05:36 so Qt'ers, is there a delegate that will render images in a table? Feb 16 09:06:29 and not just a decoration icon to go along with some text (unless said icon can be made much larger than the text) Feb 16 09:12:22 2010-2 firmware? ¿? Feb 16 09:13:49 one good thing about that meego stuff is that it may mean that scratchbox will be dropped altogether Feb 16 09:14:01 yeah, but to be replaced by what? Feb 16 09:14:18 rlinfati: ??? Feb 16 09:14:24 lardman: OBS :) Feb 16 09:14:40 * lardman googles that Feb 16 09:14:40 lardman: And developing inside the OS itself. Feb 16 09:14:44 rpm ftw Feb 16 09:14:46 ah right Feb 16 09:14:55 rpm ftl!1111 Feb 16 09:15:04 Yeah, hopefully there'll be qemu images maybe. Feb 16 09:15:04 this is maemo Feb 16 09:15:07 that won't handle specific devicisms tho Feb 16 09:15:10 * mece is just sayin' Feb 16 09:15:16 Is there a way Maemo can continue along side Meego? Feb 16 09:15:16 well, developing inside the OS is kind-of hard when you want to test hw features Feb 16 09:15:18 ah ok, still qemu, ok Feb 16 09:15:20 alterego: Yeah, that would be good. Feb 16 09:15:20 lardman: well, neither does scratchbox ;) Feb 16 09:15:27 Since I don't really care about a MeeGo core Feb 16 09:15:53 Lantizia, I guess N900 will still run maemo Feb 16 09:15:54 I'm hoping for qemu images, ia32 and arm for the maemo/meego instances. Feb 16 09:16:36 mece: I already have that - but I don't want work on Maemo to stop Feb 16 09:17:07 ia32 is dead! Feb 16 09:17:15 MeeGo is not a continuation of Maemo... it is Moblin with Qt... that is all Feb 16 09:17:18 ia64 ftw!1111 Feb 16 09:17:22 hem Feb 16 09:17:30 meh Feb 16 09:17:52 atom handles perfectly fine x86_64 Feb 16 09:17:52 mece: not if Stskeeps has anything to say about it... Feb 16 09:18:09 not the early atoms Feb 16 09:18:16 tybollt, Stskeeps is bringing meego to N900? Feb 16 09:18:36 mece: if noone else is, i would certainly help out Feb 16 09:18:39 mece: he said he'd give it his best shot... a brave endeavour indeed. Feb 16 09:18:40 man I hate that name. MeeGo. Sounds like Microsoft meets Apple. Feb 16 09:18:57 Stskeeps, I definately want it. Feb 16 09:19:10 mece: really? I thought it sounded like Microsoft meets Google. Feb 16 09:19:23 alterego, lol.. how about apple meets google? Feb 16 09:19:24 Are we going to have a Go language implementation on MeeGo ^.^ Feb 16 09:19:29 lol Feb 16 09:21:35 got it all working well great Feb 16 09:21:42 I'm very positive about MeeGo, It's just that I really like the Maemo maemo and really don't like the MeeGo name Feb 16 09:21:57 Jacquesdptd-mob2, what is working great? Feb 16 09:22:07 dont need meego ubuntu-moblin-remix is better for a real laptop transformed to tablet Feb 16 09:22:15 s/maemo/name Feb 16 09:22:17 moblin Feb 16 09:23:02 except maemo is maybe running faster so meego may be faster than ubuntu-moblin-remix Feb 16 09:24:07 I'm guessing the ubuntu-moblin-remix wont work on phones.. Feb 16 09:24:46 anyone got PR1.1.1 from HAM btw? Feb 16 09:24:51 yeah sure i notificate it was better for my touchbook , a real laptop transform to tablet Feb 16 09:26:14 yeah, meego is a horrible name Feb 16 09:26:16 i think i'm gonna install a basic kubuntu + compiz solution that will run virtually the moblin ui on one of the cube face and then i'll have to find 2 other UI for the other 2 faces restings Feb 16 09:26:45 sounds like some car or bike for a little kid Feb 16 09:26:46 and i'll have the best reason of choosing fast hardware even if the device is bigger Feb 16 09:26:52 mece: considering there's a guy running fedora on n900... Feb 16 09:27:27 I really hope MeeGo will deliver on the multiple hardware front. This would be a good time to launch a nice big Nokia Tablet since Apple's iPad hyped up the market and failed to deliver. Feb 16 09:27:53 ShadowJK, is it a phone? Feb 16 09:27:57 that said i can't be waiting to see devices as small as iphones running meego as smooth as iphone runs osx mobile Feb 16 09:29:17 advantages of meego are simple compared to iphone : multitasking user friendly, flash ?, battery time maybe ? and open source and what seems to be a good community Feb 16 09:30:45 ShadowJK, I mean can you make phonecalls with fedora? Feb 16 09:31:31 i love my n900 but wish it was 1/2 as thick Feb 16 09:31:50 perhaps a bit bigger screen Feb 16 09:31:51 :) Feb 16 09:32:10 mece: he said he was close :) Feb 16 09:32:17 wish mine was e90-sized with matching keyboard :( Feb 16 09:32:19 ShadowJK, cool. Very! Feb 16 09:32:35 * lbt_ wishes it had a berillium crystal too Feb 16 09:32:36 e90 is too big Feb 16 09:32:39 ShadowJK, well I guess it would be easiert to get MeeGo on N900 then fedora :) Feb 16 09:32:43 i don't have a purse to put it in Feb 16 09:32:51 e90's perfectly pocketable Feb 16 09:33:00 if you're a giant. Feb 16 09:33:09 im a whopping 5 foot 8 Feb 16 09:33:13 :P Feb 16 09:33:26 mece: fedora is on n900 already Feb 16 09:33:31 mece: jebba ported Feb 16 09:34:14 e90 is like a SUV. It does most things badly, but it's expensive, looks big and badass, and automatically makes your penis bigger Feb 16 09:34:37 so it's worth buying Feb 16 09:34:44 is that a phone in your pocket or are you just happy to see me? Feb 16 09:34:58 in fairness, it only really does most things not-so-well because it runs symbian, the hardware and particularly the keyboard are fantastic Feb 16 09:35:03 Stskeeps, yeah, I just meant that if fedora is already there, meego should be easy, even if nok doesn't do it themselves. Feb 16 09:35:11 so i dont get what i have to do so that the location widget or de ovi maps app follow my current position. i just want a dot moving on the map.... Feb 16 09:35:29 well it's N810-era hardware too Feb 16 09:35:59 im on the train right now and the location thing shows my position but whenthe train moves nothing happens on the map Feb 16 09:36:43 You've got no gps signal probably Feb 16 09:36:56 (and ovi maps gives up after 30 secs) Feb 16 09:37:04 hey I actually have a programming issue, perhaps someone can help me with this. Feb 16 09:37:06 well Feb 16 09:37:41 w/ meego nokia bought out of needing to ever give us proper ovi (maps, calendar, addy book you name it) ever I suppose =) Feb 16 09:37:54 nah i think nokia will still do it Feb 16 09:37:57 they have to Feb 16 09:38:04 I think companies will still need to add value with their own apps Feb 16 09:38:08 "they have to"... Feb 16 09:38:11 plus they spent billions to buy navteq, they better put it to good use Feb 16 09:38:11 what do you mean proper ovi? Feb 16 09:38:33 anyway, have we got new Ovi Maps yet, just out of interest? Feb 16 09:38:37 not yet Feb 16 09:38:47 ovi maps, ove calendar, ovi you-name-it =) Feb 16 09:38:51 next week one hopes? Feb 16 09:39:01 any reason for that hope? Feb 16 09:39:15 in python, I'm debugging my widget, and I need error output, so I set sys.stderr = open('asdf/asdf/error.log', 'a') Feb 16 09:39:28 but how do I close it? Feb 16 09:39:32 a friend of mine has the n900 and i found it rocking Feb 16 09:39:50 no particular reason :) Feb 16 09:39:51 jacquesdptd-mob2, best device evah, IMO. Feb 16 09:39:55 mece: sys.stderr.close() ? Feb 16 09:40:01 i'm really more planning on maemo/meego than andriod Feb 16 09:40:05 my n900 is definitely faster after this update Feb 16 09:40:06 itdock: ah, wondered if there had been some hint, etc Feb 16 09:40:10 the user interfaces is a lot better Feb 16 09:40:13 and it seems more pro Feb 16 09:40:15 marmoute, yes, but where? Feb 16 09:40:25 itdock: what update? Feb 16 09:40:26 lardman: last major update was preceeded by a minor one exactly a week prior Feb 16 09:40:33 PR1.1.1 Feb 16 09:40:34 mecei could take one if i wanted Feb 16 09:40:38 have we just had a minor update then? Feb 16 09:40:41 yes Feb 16 09:40:43 oh Feb 16 09:40:48 itdock: let me tell you - you're late to the table :) Feb 16 09:40:53 lardman, PR1.1.1 apparently Feb 16 09:40:57 i definitely am :P Feb 16 09:40:59 ah good Feb 16 09:41:09 I'll see if I can get it downloaded then Feb 16 09:41:10 doh Feb 16 09:41:11 mece: why to you want to close it anywhere ? Feb 16 09:41:26 cause i finished my cell phone supplier engement and i can resiliate and profit of new customers offers Feb 16 09:41:31 memory use seems better as well, though i wish i could easily see what from extras-devel was occupying root Feb 16 09:41:40 i should check the price the n900 would cost me Feb 16 09:41:53 marmoute, well I don't know where the error comes, I need all the output, but I'm not sure where to close the file. Feb 16 09:42:11 but now i know there no chances meego will run on it i should maybe wit a bit more Feb 16 09:42:29 mece: don't close it then Feb 16 09:42:35 pyton ill do it at the end. Feb 16 09:42:44 guys Feb 16 09:42:46 hi all Feb 16 09:42:52 marmoute, oh. Well that solves a lot of problems :) Feb 16 09:43:05 * lardman curses the slowness of "checking for updates" Feb 16 09:43:06 starting from hardware / price what's the best phone actually ? Feb 16 09:43:08 for all of you Feb 16 09:43:14 mece: it'll be closed on exit anyway, but I'm fairly sure there's a way to set it unbuffered or line buffered too Feb 16 09:43:26 hmm firefox is actually fast on 1.1.1 Feb 16 09:43:41 who know how to get start php coding on my n900? Feb 16 09:43:47 ShadowJK, line buffered! Yes that's what I want Feb 16 09:43:54 or just flush it after each write Feb 16 09:43:59 it's probably just because you just rebooted Feb 16 09:44:03 Dipsy, install the web server and get crackin Feb 16 09:44:16 nah i reboot all the time, this is definitely different Feb 16 09:45:03 ok time to catch some sleep before work in 4.5 hrs Feb 16 09:45:04 :P Feb 16 09:45:17 hmm does sys.stderr use the write() function? I could just make a function that opens, writes, closes or something. Feb 16 09:46:00 mece: I'm pretty sure you can change buffering of fds in python Feb 16 09:46:10 I remember doing it on pys60 Feb 16 09:46:13 you do Feb 16 09:46:29 so going back to the update, I don't see it currently, is that normal? Feb 16 09:46:51 lardman: last time it ws staggered across timezones? Feb 16 09:46:51 ShadowJK, I'm finding out. Thanks for the help. Feb 16 09:47:04 ShadowJK: ah ok Feb 16 09:48:24 * lardman heads off to try to work out Qt Table Delegates Feb 16 09:48:27 cu later chaps Feb 16 09:55:57 apparently open('asdf/asdf/error.log', 'a', 0) would make it unbuffered. Feb 16 09:57:21 renaming maemo 6 to meego: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=529073 Feb 16 09:58:09 what on earth is Aptana Feb 16 09:58:45 Stskeeps, some moblin stuff perhaps? Feb 16 09:58:52 ide Feb 16 09:58:59 for webapps Feb 16 09:59:16 so it appears. Feb 16 10:02:57 Stskeeps: nah my gps lock was fine. meh I'll find out another time, I'm at work now ;) Feb 16 10:05:15 PR1.1.1 now available OTA in Finland . Feb 16 10:06:34 in whole west europe in fact Feb 16 10:06:51 any changelog? Feb 16 10:07:03 Wohooooo!!! Feb 16 10:07:06 found the bug! Feb 16 10:07:08 is there a way to prohibit the n900 to connect to a specific non-secured wlan? Feb 16 10:07:27 Shapeshifter: Not add it to your list? Feb 16 10:07:51 X-Fade: so removing it should work Feb 16 10:08:12 Shapeshifter: yes Feb 16 10:11:18 X-Fade: okay thanks Feb 16 10:12:55 interesting. Turns out hildon-desktop loads the widgets before MyDocs is mounted, resulting in problems when a widget uses stuff from MyDocs. Since MyDocs is unmounted when masstorage connected I should implement workarounds either way... Feb 16 10:13:00 is there actually an update released (after 2.2009.51-1 ?) as claimed by the forums? Feb 16 10:13:14 Lantizia, yep. Feb 16 10:13:24 mece: that turns it part meego? Feb 16 10:13:41 Lantizia, No Feb 16 10:13:45 lol ok Feb 16 10:13:54 Lantizia: only your device Feb 16 10:14:04 hahaha Feb 16 10:14:30 Let's see if this works. I have not even looked at df -h today.. Feb 16 10:14:37 tons of devel apps Feb 16 10:14:40 :) Feb 16 10:14:59 hmm downloading. Seems to be working. Feb 16 10:24:50 Stskeeps, Pr1.1.1 is going out today. I verified hat Feb 16 10:25:12 it will be rolled out at different times in different time zones. Feb 16 10:25:13 konttori_work: it already is. Feb 16 10:25:27 Europe will roll out in 30 minutes Feb 16 10:25:35 rest of the world should already be out now. Feb 16 10:25:36 it already is being rolled out Feb 16 10:25:39 konttori_work: thanks, was a bit surprised :) we're happy cos it comes with sdk-fiasco-gen Feb 16 10:25:46 and I could need some help Feb 16 10:26:02 how can I list all packages belonging to extras-devel with dpkg? Feb 16 10:26:11 * satmd is getting the 'not enough space' again Feb 16 10:26:35 how much space do you have satmd ? Feb 16 10:26:47 open xterm, type df Feb 16 10:27:16 heh Feb 16 10:27:27 "Maemo" is in some of the symbian repositories :) Feb 16 10:27:34 / is only 33mb left Feb 16 10:27:43 is there a 1.1.1 changelog? Feb 16 10:27:55 changelog would be cool Feb 16 10:28:00 was the udpate released? Feb 16 10:28:02 Key changes and improvements: Feb 16 10:28:02 - OpenGL ES 1.1 API libraries added Feb 16 10:28:02 - Support for OVI Store paid content distribution Feb 16 10:28:02 - Support for almost new 40 new countries Feb 16 10:28:02 - WLAN bugs mostly fixed Feb 16 10:28:02 - Set of browser related error´s fixes Feb 16 10:28:12 konttori_work: please don't flood the channel Feb 16 10:28:15 asj_: i thought andre__ published one Feb 16 10:28:20 thanks :) Feb 16 10:28:29 crashanddie, that wasn't too biig a flood Feb 16 10:28:30 konttori_work: an url would be better :) Feb 16 10:28:32 oooh, I wonder if it "supports" australia by now Feb 16 10:28:34 crashanddie: please don't write "uDPate" Feb 16 10:28:38 it reminds me of symbian code Feb 16 10:28:45 sigh Feb 16 10:28:46 timeless_mbp: eh? Feb 16 10:28:55 timeless_mbp: no, that would be CUpdateL Feb 16 10:28:57 timeless_mbp: ah, my bad Feb 16 10:28:58 ;) Feb 16 10:29:04 well, I have a ChangeLog here, yeah. and I expect Nokia to put it online Feb 16 10:29:26 http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_5/PR1.1 exists, so I did expect http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_5/PR1.1.1 personally. But it does not exist ("yet", hopefully) Feb 16 10:29:39 tiemlsee: i tond caer waht ouy kthin! Feb 16 10:29:57 http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=529143&postcount=397 Feb 16 10:30:11 uh oh, PR1.1.1 will roll out 20 minutes before I have to leave for work, do I dare upgrade :) Feb 16 10:30:19 hi Feb 16 10:30:23 ShadowJK: it's a really minor update Feb 16 10:30:31 If you have a twitter account you can follow it here: http://tweetchat.com/room/NokiaMWC for example... Feb 16 10:30:33 wow! Feb 16 10:30:35 it isn't critical, it can wait for 8 hours Feb 16 10:30:55 how does one change the browser to portrait mode? ctrl+shift+o doesn't seem to work here Feb 16 10:30:59 timeless_mbp, but I'll miss the new shiny for 8 hours :( Feb 16 10:31:10 arachnist: um Feb 16 10:31:10 the new shiny I can't use anyway because I'll be busy Feb 16 10:31:16 logic.. not... working Feb 16 10:31:25 you realize you have to close your keyboard and hold your n900 in portrait orientation after using the keystroke Feb 16 10:31:26 right? Feb 16 10:31:26 timeless_mbp: my mbp crashed when opening a new tab in safari Feb 16 10:31:35 timeless_mbp: it's doing the same right now... again Feb 16 10:31:35 crashanddie, blame flash Feb 16 10:31:38 crashanddie: my mbp decided not to wake up last night Feb 16 10:31:40 timeless_mbp: hm Feb 16 10:31:53 the sata controller wasn't cooperating (The hdd is dying) Feb 16 10:31:54 ota update was pretty cool. I clicked download and started playing with the computer. next time I looked at the phone, it looked like app manager had crashed, since it was back at home. Turns out it was already updated and booted :) Feb 16 10:31:55 ShadowJK: nothing to do with flash, at least I think... it's just those damn previews Feb 16 10:32:07 timeless_mbp: oh, thanks Feb 16 10:32:23 arachnist: fwiw, the same behavior exists in Phone and all other apps Feb 16 10:32:27 wait a minute has any update been released for the N900? I hearing some talk about PR 1.1.1 ? Feb 16 10:32:31 we're not supposed to give you portrait mode when your keyboard is open Feb 16 10:32:38 you're obviously not using it in portrait mode :) Feb 16 10:32:46 bigbrovar: yes Feb 16 10:32:56 bigrovar, yep its out. just updated from HAM here. Feb 16 10:32:58 * asj_ install the update Feb 16 10:33:08 * timeless_mbp pokes crashanddie in private Feb 16 10:33:14 timeless_mbp: nice :) Feb 16 10:33:25 bigbrovar: *shrug*, it's a _minor_ update Feb 16 10:33:31 please don't expect the world to shift Feb 16 10:33:32 no one here is at mwc are they? Feb 16 10:33:52 re Feb 16 10:34:21 timeless_mbp: still better than nothing, beside it might be yet another John the Baptist of updates :P Feb 16 10:34:42 bigbrovar: please excuse me for not getting the reference Feb 16 10:34:47 some historical figure... this i know Feb 16 10:35:06 konttori_work: congrats on shipping it btw Feb 16 10:35:12 pls help , I can't update for a dont have engouth space. here is my df -h Feb 16 10:35:26 cityLights: don't paste your df here Feb 16 10:35:26 http://dpaste.com/159828/ Feb 16 10:35:46 cityLights: your problem is rootfs Feb 16 10:35:50 how to free space? where to free space? Feb 16 10:36:07 you'll need to find some misbehaved 3rd party package and remove it for a bit Feb 16 10:36:07 cityLights: Did you use apt to install things? Feb 16 10:36:21 new update claims 16M yet I got 18 Mb free there Feb 16 10:36:23 or, well, if you used apt, then you're the one who misbehaved :) Feb 16 10:36:46 * timeless_mbp starts getting maemo bugmail Feb 16 10:36:53 yes X-Fade I used apt to install stuff and allready rm /var/cache/apt/archives Feb 16 10:36:54 andre__: is this you fixing tms? Feb 16 10:37:02 who is tms? Feb 16 10:37:06 cityLights, clear the cache completely Feb 16 10:37:12 target-milestones Feb 16 10:37:13 cityLights: apt-get clean helped? Feb 16 10:37:16 well john the Baptist was suppose to be the dude who came before the christ to prepare the way for The coming of the christ. the reference was used in explaining the minor update which came just before PR 1.1 Feb 16 10:37:17 later Feb 16 10:37:24 * RST38h moos at konttori, X-Fade, and others Feb 16 10:37:33 timeless_mbp: . Feb 16 10:37:34 hmm, needs more than 32 megs in / Feb 16 10:37:43 RST38h, is mooing good or bad? Feb 16 10:37:49 bigbrovar: ah Feb 16 10:37:56 konttori: Depends on the adjective Feb 16 10:38:00 konttori_work: It is a friendly moo, didn't you hear? :) Feb 16 10:38:02 bigbrovar: certainly not impossible Feb 16 10:38:04 lol! Feb 16 10:38:05 apt-get clean dosnt free any space Feb 16 10:38:13 timeless_mbp: lol Feb 16 10:38:13 however in this case, i think it's more likely that nokia wants to be able to sell stuff @ovi store Feb 16 10:38:15 apt-get autoremove Feb 16 10:38:32 cityLights: but does it remove any packages? Feb 16 10:38:51 timeless_mbp: so, that was a crash :) Feb 16 10:38:54 timeless_mbp: hehe in that case the John the baptist reference doesnt apply :p Feb 16 10:38:55 Jaffa: you about? Feb 16 10:38:55 apt-get autoremove - doesnt remove any. I allready removed a few apps Feb 16 10:39:14 timeless_mbp: I believe you are a maemo developer? Feb 16 10:39:22 i'm glad you believe that Feb 16 10:39:24 timeless_mbp: quick, duck Feb 16 10:39:27 lardman: ok! Feb 16 10:39:29 * timeless_mbp ducks Feb 16 10:39:43 asj_: I have 40mb free and stillc omplaining.. Feb 16 10:40:09 pillar: what does "log" say in ham? Feb 16 10:40:25 http://dpaste.com/159831/ should I rm /var/cache/apt/* ? Feb 16 10:40:49 timeless_mbp: I wanted to know your take on the move to meego, most maemo developers have been silent so far. You guys would soon be working with the moblin dudes (I use moblin too and hangout in their IRC.. really nice dudes if I most say) Feb 16 10:41:05 bigbrovar: so um Feb 16 10:41:12 there are a number of reasons for us to be silent Feb 16 10:41:23 1. we just got the news when you did, so we have to think about it Feb 16 10:41:23 a very big number of reasons Feb 16 10:41:29 apt-get zomg-crash-and-burn-and-run-to-the-hills-rpm-will-soon-pwn-us Feb 16 10:41:32 cityLights, apt-cache autoclean / clean Feb 16 10:41:36 hmm, the wonders of a progress bar, supposed to let you know the app hasn't hung, except when the progress bar sits stationary for minutes at a time Feb 16 10:41:36 2. we were probably asked not to comment much Feb 16 10:41:41 3. we're probably busy working on maemo6 Feb 16 10:41:48 timeless_mbp: there's some "ignorin versions from" from packages that replaces the default system ones Feb 16 10:42:03 cityLights, -cache/-get Feb 16 10:42:11 * ShadowJK would disable extras-testing and extras-devel before update Feb 16 10:42:12 pillar_: you can save the log file from ham, upload it to a pastebin Feb 16 10:42:24 ShadowJK: good advice Feb 16 10:42:28 the office seems to agree Meego is pronounced Magoo Feb 16 10:42:40 bigbrovar: beyond that... i haven't really formed a public opinion Feb 16 10:42:43 asj_: as in Mr Magoo :) Feb 16 10:42:45 * ShadowJK would say it miigo Feb 16 10:42:48 lardman: ayup Feb 16 10:42:55 4. we're still waiting for more information about what it means from management Feb 16 10:43:00 koivula: I ran 1. apt-cache autoclean and apt-cache clean - nothing workd Feb 16 10:43:00 ShadowJK would disable extras-testing and extras-devel <- t,fitfy Feb 16 10:43:24 ehr yeah Feb 16 10:43:26 Hi, After selecting a new boot video, If I delete selected video, what happens? Does it revert back to "hands" and boots anyway? I dont want to brick my device for a simple change. Feb 16 10:43:40 I know it's not much of a consolation, but pr1.2 will require much less rootfs space than 1.1.1. Feb 16 10:43:48 this might not be the time to start picking on individual employees at nokia so - by GOD people, do restrain yourselves. Feb 16 10:43:54 konttori_work, what does it do to require less? :-) Feb 16 10:43:59 tybollt++ Feb 16 10:43:59 cityLights, well maybe then you don't have any packages in /var/cache/apt/archives/ Feb 16 10:44:00 optify Feb 16 10:44:01 koivula: I ran 1. apt-get clean nothing happend Feb 16 10:44:02 konttori_work: assuming we can install 1.1.1 Feb 16 10:44:05 konttori_work, wow Feb 16 10:44:16 /var/cache/apt/archives/ if empty Feb 16 10:44:17 * ShadowJK has 61 megs free on / anyway, without any extra tricks Feb 16 10:44:18 asj_, well, even if you cannot, then you can jump over it. Feb 16 10:44:35 * lardman has ~10Mb free, time to apt-get remove some things Feb 16 10:44:37 du -h /var => 60.8M Feb 16 10:44:39 Aranel: no Feb 16 10:44:42 ShadowJK: ah it is possible....do you have anything installed? Feb 16 10:44:50 only people who have installed from extras-devel, will have issues in rootfs. Feb 16 10:44:51 Aranel: the way the boot videos work is this: Feb 16 10:45:00 timeless_mbp: I guess it was a hasty decision motivated more by business than Technical advantage, The decision was first made, and the technical details would be worked on later Feb 16 10:45:02 there are a list of files which each specify videos to show Feb 16 10:45:13 we have tested installing about 60 apps from extras, and not issues with rootfs. Feb 16 10:45:16 if a file isn't present, that video isn't shown Feb 16 10:45:22 can I rm /var/lib/apt/lists to gain 21.5M ? Feb 16 10:45:23 To update Maemo5, do I need to stop OpenSSH first? Feb 16 10:45:27 asj_, openvpn, rsync, openssh, mytube, zoutube, xchat, gpodder, location-test-ui, crash-reporter, less, nano, fuelpad, pwsafe, mplayer Feb 16 10:45:30 but if the file that used to specify hands is missing, then it couldn't be shown Feb 16 10:45:31 I probably forget something Feb 16 10:45:35 timeless_mbp: http://pastebin.com/m1c9666e4 Feb 16 10:45:38 and if you aren't seeing hands today, that means that file isn't around Feb 16 10:45:39 3g/3g/dual mode switching applet, foreca weather applet Feb 16 10:45:44 heh I have 29 megs in /var/lib/dpkg Feb 16 10:45:47 timeless_mbp: so If it cant find specified video, it just skips and boots anyway? thanks =) Feb 16 10:45:53 bigbrovar: well Feb 16 10:45:59 RST38h: no the update will put the device in offline mode Feb 16 10:46:04 * asj_ turns off -testing and -devl for a moment Feb 16 10:46:16 cityLights, I'll make a script that will free up some serious space. Feb 16 10:46:18 pillar_: not very helpful, eh? Feb 16 10:46:19 hold on a sec... Feb 16 10:46:40 or should I rm /var/lib/dpkg/* ? Feb 16 10:46:40 konttori_work: allowing users to choose localisation data would free space Feb 16 10:46:44 personally i just moved all of a coworker's locales to /opt and added symlinks for them Feb 16 10:46:54 lardman: i should write a package that does that Feb 16 10:47:11 yeah, we'll also optify the localizations. Feb 16 10:47:13 would be good if the data were in the repo, and Settings had a choose which to install applet Feb 16 10:47:22 konttori_work: coming in 1.2? Feb 16 10:47:25 of course that kind of data compresses well, so it's not that much. Feb 16 10:47:28 timeless_mbp: no, will disable devel and extras and see if that helps Feb 16 10:47:29 yeah, coming in pr1.2 Feb 16 10:47:40 pillar_: so Feb 16 10:47:46 if this fails, disable every repo you don't need Feb 16 10:47:55 set up apt to use /opt Feb 16 10:48:01 and try asking it to do the upgrade Feb 16 10:48:17 apt should give you a better error message Feb 16 10:48:29 the "set up apt to use /opt" step is very important, don't skip it! Feb 16 10:48:34 sorry for being late to the party, any patchnotes around? Feb 16 10:48:36 (someone else will walk you through that one) Feb 16 10:48:46 frals: in the log for today, by konttori_work Feb 16 10:48:46 timeless_mbp: that's the step I'm not sure how to do Feb 16 10:48:51 ty Feb 16 10:49:02 thee is a new update for maemo n900? Feb 16 10:49:07 Here is a script that frees about 20 megs of space: http://pastebin.com/m53b242fc Feb 16 10:49:08 yes Feb 16 10:49:12 save as a optify.sh Feb 16 10:49:15 what is it about? Feb 16 10:49:16 store to device. Feb 16 10:49:21 execute as root Feb 16 10:49:43 timeless_mbp: looks like disabling testing and devel was enough to get it upgrading Feb 16 10:49:44 konttori_work: let me test this answer Feb 16 10:49:50 pillar_: cool Feb 16 10:49:52 I have 41MB / available but the Maemo5 update still does not install. Any specific reason? Feb 16 10:50:04 what is /var/lib/dpkg/info used for? Feb 16 10:50:04 I'm trying a reboot to see if device still comes up after executing that ;) Feb 16 10:50:06 RST38h: does the log say anything? Feb 16 10:50:11 what log? Feb 16 10:50:15 asj_: it's the package database Feb 16 10:50:18 RST38h: disabling testing and devel did it for me, I had 42mb before doing that and having the same trouble Feb 16 10:50:21 RST38h: tap the title area of ham Feb 16 10:50:25 RST38h, I think 1.1.1 needs 42 mb of space (or 45... can't remember) Feb 16 10:50:27 there should be a 'log' button Feb 16 10:50:40 ahha Feb 16 10:50:43 timeless_mbp: oh, there are recent date stamps, sorry I missed them Feb 16 10:51:05 asj_: *shrug*, perfectly reasonable question Feb 16 10:51:08 the log is empty Feb 16 10:52:04 yeah, device came up nicely. Feb 16 10:52:10 cityLights, go ahead and use that script Feb 16 10:52:23 also, anybody else, who needs only about 20 megs of free rootfs should use that. Feb 16 10:52:36 I'll try to add a bit more to the script in a while. Feb 16 10:52:38 Mhm Feb 16 10:52:52 Still cannot update. Feb 16 10:52:55 No log. Feb 16 10:53:18 US? Feb 16 10:53:34 HORRAY!\ Feb 16 10:53:38 ah, still 7 minutes to europe I think? Feb 16 10:54:01 is this the fix that brings back the sip buttons to phone? Feb 16 10:54:24 konttori_work: thanks a lot man Feb 16 10:54:30 cityLights: sip buttons?? Feb 16 10:54:31 np! Feb 16 10:54:53 ShadowJK, yeah, afaik. Feb 16 10:55:00 konttori_work: btw, how well will the 1.2 update work for people who are partially optified? :) Feb 16 10:55:01 cityLights, bug #? Feb 16 10:55:16 but I'm not part of the release process, so I don't know how punctual they are about the schedule Feb 16 10:55:47 timeless, it'll work just fine. Opt folder might have duplicates, but that's it Feb 16 10:56:28 we are going to use this path convention in the optification, so /opt/ Feb 16 10:56:44 so, e.g. that script above won't result in duplicate files after upgrading to pr1.2 Feb 16 10:57:01 ugh Feb 16 10:57:01 * timeless_mbp nods Feb 16 10:57:13 that's what i've been using Feb 16 10:57:16 all this 1.2 talk is making me nervous :S Feb 16 10:57:18 anxious Feb 16 10:57:18 and i've prayed that it would "do the right thing" Feb 16 10:57:27 yeah, well, it will do Feb 16 10:57:35 hello! how to get 'back button' of StackableWindow to connect own signal? Feb 16 10:57:50 timeless_mbp: I meant to file a bug about the missing --DWFIW flag to most hildon apps ;-) Feb 16 10:58:12 tybollt: hey, i filed a bug against modest to DWIW Feb 16 10:58:24 konttori_work: speaking of which, i have some things i need to poke you about Feb 16 10:58:34 update installing... Feb 16 10:58:53 timeless_mbp: ;) Feb 16 10:59:01 .. updated. Feb 16 10:59:10 wife will life the update, the wifi keeps going nuts and killing her battery Feb 16 10:59:12 konttori_work: should backups work ok with the update? Feb 16 10:59:13 pillar: which version Feb 16 10:59:15 tybollt: well, one problem i have, is i have no idea how long it'll take before i get a response Feb 16 10:59:25 tybollt: 1.1.1 I guess Feb 16 10:59:26 w/ nokia, i have one patch i sent that got 2 responses in <1week Feb 16 10:59:28 tybollt: nervous? it makes me excited! :P Feb 16 10:59:38 one patch got no response (and doesn't seem to be present in the archive) Feb 16 10:59:50 and in that same time, i sent a patch to xerces which was integrated Feb 16 11:00:27 * timeless_mbp has a file with 150k entries Feb 16 11:00:34 (it had >300k entries when it started) Feb 16 11:00:45 timeless_mbp: the bug that shows only cellular number in phone Feb 16 11:00:54 what is the prefered way of accessing the camera on maemo? using libgdigicam? Feb 16 11:01:04 cityLights: bug#? sorry, your description is still poor Feb 16 11:01:10 so if you click a missed call, you can't choose to use sip Feb 16 11:01:16 searching Feb 16 11:01:17 cityLights: oh Feb 16 11:01:25 i don't think that's going to be fixed the way you want Feb 16 11:01:30 hmm, nice to see a big "Operation Failed" banner during the update.... :) Feb 16 11:01:30 if you click the dude icon on the left Feb 16 11:01:38 you can typically get a better card which has the sip option Feb 16 11:01:53 lardman: maybe using your code to access the camera? Feb 16 11:02:00 cityLights: assuming this is what you mean, it'd only be fixed if konttori is given ownership and resources and decides to fix it Feb 16 11:02:01 lardman, yes, backups should work Feb 16 11:02:07 crashanddie_: ? Feb 16 11:02:11 konttori_work: cheers Feb 16 11:02:17 lardman: remember the early versions of mbarcode? Feb 16 11:02:26 asj_, the pr1.1.1 has wlan power consumption fixes Feb 16 11:02:32 oh did it say that, long time ago ;) Feb 16 11:02:38 cityLights: roughly, i have stuff like this w/ SIP, and at least in most cases, i'm able to do what i described to do what you want Feb 16 11:02:56 but i rarely miss calls, so it's possible my use case isn't a match Feb 16 11:02:59 konttori_work, I don't need to ifconfig wlan0 down after leaving home anymore? :-) Feb 16 11:03:05 (konttori_work could call me if you wanted us to test) Feb 16 11:03:23 oo, the startup screen is snazzier anyway Feb 16 11:03:32 SIP is cheap. so I click the number long and open the "open contact" , then choose to call using sip Feb 16 11:03:52 cityLights: oh, i know about cost Feb 16 11:03:59 nokia has roughly speaking ordered me to use SIP Feb 16 11:04:07 so i'm using it frequently w/ my n900 Feb 16 11:04:20 * MohammadAG wonders what the dbus signal for toggling bluetooth is Feb 16 11:04:30 or SIP is free to call France for people with specific credentials... Feb 16 11:04:32 MohammadAG: oh brother Feb 16 11:04:42 lol why? Feb 16 11:04:47 just use a dbus sniffer and use the bluetooth applet Feb 16 11:04:49 see what happens Feb 16 11:05:00 dbus is a well understood system, the tools for managing it are there Feb 16 11:05:04 running mbus2 atm Feb 16 11:05:12 you can solve this black box w/o wondering here Feb 16 11:05:15 hi Feb 16 11:05:31 hi Gaap Feb 16 11:05:39 do you know if it possible to enable verbose mode on boot on a rooted n800 ? :O Feb 16 11:05:49 Gaap: what would that mean? Feb 16 11:05:50 rooted? Feb 16 11:06:01 there's no text console for output from the kernel while you boot Feb 16 11:06:03 n800 with root access Feb 16 11:06:11 you'd have to install your own kernel if you wanted that Feb 16 11:06:22 like in linux, with dmesg output at start Feb 16 11:06:28 ^^ Feb 16 11:06:39 * lardman wonders why the capital Os in Catorize have some sort of slash on them Feb 16 11:06:40 :O Feb 16 11:06:46 ok, i read about compiling it Feb 16 11:06:47 ty Feb 16 11:06:49 Gaap: no Feb 16 11:06:55 lardman: to be fancy? :) Feb 16 11:07:00 lardman: font? Feb 16 11:07:15 Gaap: why do you want to do this? Feb 16 11:07:18 I nearly chose not to use Catorize because it's spelt wrongly -- with a z Feb 16 11:07:19 is there something wrong? Feb 16 11:07:30 crashanddie_: eh? Feb 16 11:07:30 timeless_mbp: nope, he just wants to show off Feb 16 11:07:34 yeah font, but why would an O have any dangly bits I wonder Feb 16 11:07:39 it's spelled Catorise in engb, no? Feb 16 11:07:44 timeless_mbp, cause i'm a linux user and i like to see what my system start on n800 Feb 16 11:07:47 afaik it's only Catorize for enus Feb 16 11:07:59 Gaap: total waste of time, but have fun Feb 16 11:08:02 timeless_mbp: is it? I was just picking up on lardman spelling with a z... Your sarcasm meter is broken Feb 16 11:08:03 :) Feb 16 11:08:04 oh maybe Feb 16 11:08:13 timeless_mbp: see, told you, show off Feb 16 11:08:14 that's linux :p a totally waste of time Feb 16 11:08:27 * timeless_mbp doesn't run a sarcasm detector Feb 16 11:08:37 finns don't do sarcasm, so it's a waste of resources :) Feb 16 11:08:40 I've been reading code, hence the z's Feb 16 11:08:42 hmpf, install failed half way though Feb 16 11:08:43 timeless_mbp: I mean, he's italian, he speaks about a "rooted n800", and wants to see boot messages, of course it was show off :P Feb 16 11:09:10 crashanddie_: yeah, you won that bet Feb 16 11:10:08 any reason why libgdigicam is only available on x86 and not arm? Feb 16 11:10:26 aboyer: wouldn't it make more sense to ask the packager? Feb 16 11:10:29 aboyer: it's on arm too Feb 16 11:10:48 Gaap: you have a radical n800? Feb 16 11:10:51 or do you mean not in the repo? Feb 16 11:11:03 crashanddie_, radical? Feb 16 11:11:15 lardman: apt tells me that libgdigicam0 is not available in scratchbox arm Feb 16 11:11:15 ah man, even a native doesn't get my jokes Feb 16 11:11:21 radical -> radici -> root Feb 16 11:11:31 :O yes Feb 16 11:11:36 root on os2008 Feb 16 11:11:46 aboyer: I don't have my build machine here, but my code compiles against it Feb 16 11:11:48 timeless_mbp, I'm a finn, and sarcasm is my first language... Feb 16 11:11:59 no https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8159 , is not fixed Feb 16 11:12:00 Bug 8159: Missing direct shortcut to use SIP/Skype again in Recent Calls list Feb 16 11:12:05 mece: yeah, right Feb 16 11:12:08 crashanddie_: that was poor Feb 16 11:12:10 3.2010.02-8 upgrade running! Feb 16 11:12:13 my n900 froze Feb 16 11:12:22 cityLights: 1.1.1 is a *MINOR* update Feb 16 11:12:26 i saw that it was possible to install angostrom on n800 too Feb 16 11:12:32 that's interesting :-/ Feb 16 11:12:34 lardman: see, no wonder they didn't understand me in amsterdam... Feb 16 11:12:40 cityLights: note that any mention of 10.2010.* means "AFTER 1.1.1" Feb 16 11:12:42 :) Feb 16 11:12:51 hi guys Feb 16 11:13:02 yoo Anidel Feb 16 11:13:08 uninstalling stuff to update Maemo Feb 16 11:13:12 hey Seb Feb 16 11:13:13 hi andiel Feb 16 11:13:17 hi mece Feb 16 11:13:19 * timeless_mbp frowns Feb 16 11:13:23 cityLights: wait Feb 16 11:13:28 andiel, this update didn't need much it appears. Feb 16 11:13:37 it says that if i upgrade my n900 to an internal build, my life might suck less Feb 16 11:13:39 more than I have :) Feb 16 11:13:40 andiel, I only removed openarena Feb 16 11:13:46 too bad, was hoping for that one Feb 16 11:13:50 andiel, right Feb 16 11:13:54 cool Feb 16 11:13:58 blah, still no update even showing here yet :( Feb 16 11:14:03 mece: it's anidel not andiel :D Feb 16 11:14:05 cityLights: thanks, i'll update and enjoy it for a while :) Feb 16 11:14:11 Jaffa, lardman: let me share you a nice one from Anidel yesterday... He PM'd me yesterday, sounding very happy... Saying "I'm going to the West coast of Canada, I might come and visit you!" Feb 16 11:14:12 nid0, you can flash it :) Feb 16 11:14:26 * Anidel needs to go somewhere :) Feb 16 11:14:40 well Canada's still closer to Australia than Uk :P Feb 16 11:14:49 meh, means firing up another machine, rather wait for ota to hurry up Feb 16 11:14:53 anidel, doh. I've always heard it in my mind as andiel. Feb 16 11:15:00 mece ahah Feb 16 11:15:04 I also saw sevral secerions where the N900 freeses. must repreduce to report it Feb 16 11:15:12 * satmd needs to reflash :( Feb 16 11:15:23 satmd, howcome? Feb 16 11:15:36 nice.. I'm uninstalling and free space on / goes down instead of up ... may be I need to reboot Feb 16 11:16:07 mece: doesn't boot, stays black Feb 16 11:16:10 lardman: apt is acting weird, it is now listing gdigicam under the arm target... Feb 16 11:16:16 Anidel: typically you do Feb 16 11:16:19 satmd, well that's not very good now is it.. Feb 16 11:16:20 Anidel, use this script: http://pastebin.com/m53b242fc Feb 16 11:16:23 ubifs is a garbage collecting system Feb 16 11:16:24 run that as root Feb 16 11:16:27 happened during the upgrade to 1.1.1 Feb 16 11:16:27 question, is your /home/user/.profile empty? Feb 16 11:16:32 it will free enough space for you Feb 16 11:16:41 on your n900 Feb 16 11:16:51 mece: probably easily fixed - and I did a backup before upgrading, too :) Feb 16 11:16:57 annoying that you can't update from the device itself :( Feb 16 11:16:59 satmd, try removing battery and reboot again. Feb 16 11:17:28 Stskeeps: Not even there. Feb 16 11:17:37 X-Fade: excellent Feb 16 11:17:47 konttori_work, nice script. Very straight forward. I like it :) Feb 16 11:17:49 konttori_work, thanks, will run it Feb 16 11:18:24 nice.. it appened .txt anyway.. grrr hate this Feb 16 11:18:33 having to keep a winxp machine around just for updating my phone is a bit annoying Feb 16 11:18:45 Anidel: you can use sh -x foo.txt Feb 16 11:18:50 El_Angelo: Huh? Feb 16 11:18:50 .sh is just a convention Feb 16 11:18:54 why not update ota El_Angelo? Feb 16 11:18:58 ota? Feb 16 11:19:08 using the phone's app manager. Feb 16 11:19:08 timeless_mbp, I know. it's just the point.. Feb 16 11:19:21 nid0: it tells me i need to update from the computer ? Feb 16 11:19:30 timeless_mbp, why show me the full name (bla.txt) and let me change it if then you'll append .txt anyway? Feb 16 11:19:34 El_Angelo: use linux flasher? Feb 16 11:19:54 have no linux here atm Feb 16 11:20:00 Anidel: so you'll know what extension it'll get at the end ;-) Feb 16 11:20:05 konttori_work, do I need to create a dir before running it? Feb 16 11:20:12 woah, updater says i've got to use some application Feb 16 11:20:14 linux @ home, windows 7 /2008R2 @ work :( Feb 16 11:20:14 Anidel, no, you don't Feb 16 11:20:20 just put in anywhere Feb 16 11:20:20 I mean 'mkdir /home/opt/usr' ? Feb 16 11:20:21 then Feb 16 11:20:22 thresh: indeed Feb 16 11:20:33 Anidel, that script makes that dir as first thing it does Feb 16 11:20:36 but i run leeenuks Feb 16 11:20:51 thresh: so um, make more space on your n900 Feb 16 11:20:55 by using konttori_work 's script Feb 16 11:20:58 I see that. I get errors.. let me investigate a bit Feb 16 11:21:04 konttori_work, could also have cp -r /var/cache/apt/* /opt/var/cache/apt; rm -r /var/cache/apt; ln -s /opt/var/cache/apt /var/cache/apt Feb 16 11:21:07 timeless_mbp: oh joys of 'nokia language'. Feb 16 11:21:20 thresh: are you using my English? Feb 16 11:21:23 if not, you should switch :) Feb 16 11:21:28 i really need a translation from 'dumb users language' to a more technical one Feb 16 11:21:41 * timeless_mbp ponders Feb 16 11:21:48 "Run Flasher tool" Feb 16 11:21:54 the only reason the phone doesn't want to update itself is because it needs more storage space?? Feb 16 11:21:58 61MB / free, still cannot install Feb 16 11:22:08 RST38h: the ultimate solution: remove qt4 :-) Feb 16 11:22:08 * timeless_mbp wants to fire RST38h as a customer Feb 16 11:22:19 mece, good point. feel free to post fixed version (and perhaps somebody could blog about that) Feb 16 11:22:22 so.. that's weird I cd in /home/opt Feb 16 11:22:28 and I see usr there Feb 16 11:22:36 drwxr-xr-x usr Feb 16 11:22:42 but I can't ls or cd in it? Feb 16 11:22:43 RST38h, sounds like something else is blocking the update for you Feb 16 11:22:48 should I run it as user? Feb 16 11:22:54 perhaps you have a conflicting package Feb 16 11:23:11 RST38h: the log should really say *something* Feb 16 11:23:34 34.5M, no go Feb 16 11:23:44 51.4 MB Feb 16 11:23:44 RST38h: Otherwise see what apt-get says. Feb 16 11:23:46 no go Feb 16 11:23:53 ah !!! I see 'usr' but the name is wrong.. it has sme binary stuff in it!! Feb 16 11:23:57 where is the log? Feb 16 11:24:08 oh, awesome Feb 16 11:24:12 konttori_work: ? Feb 16 11:24:25 if you have an untagged mp3, you get "(unknown albu" Feb 16 11:24:30 let me reboot first... Feb 16 11:24:41 konttori: I killed OpenSSH already. But how do I diagnose which package? Feb 16 11:25:05 thresh: Really? qt4? Feb 16 11:25:09 * RST38h closing in for a kill Feb 16 11:25:18 so, I see there's an update for "maemo5". And it asks me to connect it to the PC? Feb 16 11:25:22 konttori_work, http://pastebin.com/m78d75a95 Feb 16 11:25:23 well, libqt4 eats a lot of space Feb 16 11:25:29 >.> what is this. I don't have any software for nokia on my linux machine Feb 16 11:25:37 Shapeshifter: join the party! Feb 16 11:25:40 oops.. should use /home/opt/ like the rest. Feb 16 11:25:43 konttori_work: had no luck, but reflashing seems to still work Feb 16 11:26:03 El_Angelo: excuse me? Feb 16 11:26:13 konttori_work, ok, here: http://pastebin.com/m3ceee36e Feb 16 11:26:21 so, what do I need to install? Feb 16 11:26:33 mece: can you add a comment on line 2 explaining what the script is for? Feb 16 11:26:37 if you're on nix, use the maemo flasher Feb 16 11:26:44 the joys of nokia, duh Feb 16 11:26:49 nid0: okay thanks Feb 16 11:26:58 mece: and also lines 2..7 should really eat error messages Feb 16 11:26:59 it finds a way to screw something up :) Feb 16 11:27:00 is it pr 1.2 ? Feb 16 11:27:04 lol trying to get Schneider to explain why developers should have to wait 6+ months for hardware... think I'm on mission impossible Feb 16 11:27:08 otherwise people will see 'cannot create directory' which is stupid Feb 16 11:27:21 ifreq: 1.1.1 Feb 16 11:27:22 nid0: do I need to backup my data or something? or can I just flash Feb 16 11:27:36 generate a backup on the phone first Feb 16 11:27:43 ah screw it, I'll wait till 1.2 Feb 16 11:27:46 bleeter: you should obviously burn yourself in front of Nokia HQ Feb 16 11:27:48 how should /home/opt be mounted ? Feb 16 11:27:57 arg I can't, it's half installed Feb 16 11:27:58 bleeter: And what are you expecting in new hardware that warrants that wait? Feb 16 11:27:58 bleeter: Will provide great comic relief for all the present, at least Feb 16 11:28:23 I think I have something messed up here... Feb 16 11:28:24 hi Feb 16 11:28:25 konttori_work: see the bottom right item in http://www.webwizardry.net/~timeless/n900/Screenshot-20100216-132517.png Feb 16 11:28:40 X-Fade: Taking that long for n900 to become avail under warranty here... if next gen hardware like this might just punch my own face ;) Feb 16 11:28:42 whats the trick to getting an app running at startup with upstart? :/ Feb 16 11:28:44 timeless_mbp, I'm clueless about shellscripting, so dunno how to ignore errors Feb 16 11:28:51 mece: Feb 16 11:28:56 [ -d foo ] || mkdir foo Feb 16 11:28:58 or Feb 16 11:29:03 mkdir foo 2> /dev/null Feb 16 11:29:06 your choice Feb 16 11:29:10 bleeter: Every Nokia device has been that way. Symbian phones too. Feb 16 11:29:10 X-Fade: not as if been able to get any previous maemo hardware, either... Feb 16 11:29:25 n900 won't be sold here ever Feb 16 11:29:36 Next time you're in London, get down to Boundary Row in Southwark, and vent your frustrations at the Nokia office there ;) Feb 16 11:29:43 asj_: look at nokia.com.au, next month it says Feb 16 11:29:51 * timeless_mbp puzzles Feb 16 11:29:55 vmlemon_: aren't you in #symbian? Feb 16 11:29:58 asj_: as does the staff of there, and crazy johns Feb 16 11:29:59 Yeah Feb 16 11:30:09 the crossover i keep seeing is really surreal Feb 16 11:30:17 bleeter: o rly? Feb 16 11:30:24 timeless_mbp: *g* Feb 16 11:30:30 asj_: my bad, doesn't say 'next month', says 'upcoming' Feb 16 11:30:39 timeless_mbp: it's worse IMO with #maemo vs #meego, I just see 'm' at the start and get confused Feb 16 11:30:41 damn... Feb 16 11:30:45 it's in store says next month there's some staff competition where the n900's the prizes Feb 16 11:30:50 ie, nokia care staff Feb 16 11:30:51 :/ Feb 16 11:31:21 timeless, "mkdir foo 2> /dev/null" what's the 2 doing there? Feb 16 11:31:38 redirecting stderr instead of stdout Feb 16 11:31:40 mece: unix works w/ file handle numbers Feb 16 11:31:44 1 = stdout Feb 16 11:31:47 2 = stderr Feb 16 11:31:52 ok, thanks Feb 16 11:31:54 ahhhh there it is!!! :D Feb 16 11:31:54 0 = stdin Feb 16 11:31:55 so it's saying "send stderr to /dev/null" Feb 16 11:32:12 the script has been save with '^M' so it created usr^M Feb 16 11:32:14 Sorry but what is the actual name of the maemo5 package? What should I apt-get install? Feb 16 11:32:19 oh, for >, it defaults to 1> Feb 16 11:32:32 # is comments, right? Feb 16 11:32:33 hehe Feb 16 11:32:36 mece: yes Feb 16 11:32:44 (except the first line, which is magical) Feb 16 11:32:49 #! Feb 16 11:32:57 timeless_mbp, yep. Here: http://pastebin.com/m489444ef Feb 16 11:33:04 it's technically a comment, but it's a meaningful comment Feb 16 11:33:14 > from to opt Feb 16 11:33:21 i think you lost a SLASH there :) Feb 16 11:33:40 mece: definitely better Feb 16 11:33:50 k. Feb 16 11:33:52 if you want to add a comment before each section explaining which file type it is, that'd be cool Feb 16 11:33:57 * RST38h laughs satanically as apt-get is remving qt4 Feb 16 11:34:09 aww, that's not nice Feb 16 11:34:14 what did qt4 ever do to you Feb 16 11:34:21 timeless_mpb, http://pastebin.com/m4313f94d Feb 16 11:34:24 # Themes, # Icons, # Splash Screen(s), # ??? , # Apt commandline cache Feb 16 11:34:27 RST38h: it will remove mp-fremantle-generic-pr as well :-) Feb 16 11:34:30 timeless_mbp, could post this to wiki I suppose. Feb 16 11:34:34 who cares, though Feb 16 11:34:44 mece: yeah it should move to a wiki Feb 16 11:34:47 now the script runs. .thanks konttori_work Feb 16 11:34:58 mece: ok, i think you're set to move it to a wiki Feb 16 11:35:02 and provide instructions :) Feb 16 11:35:08 then stick the wiki page into the topic Feb 16 11:35:08 RST38h: mp-fremantle-002-pr looks likely Feb 16 11:35:13 (if there's space) Feb 16 11:35:20 * satmd is getting a locked sim symbol Feb 16 11:35:44 it is not 'ignoring errors' Feb 16 11:35:45 so, do I need some fiasco image or what? I'm really confused. This procedure is so non-linux like >.> Feb 16 11:35:48 it's 'hiding errors' Feb 16 11:35:54 ignoring is adding ||: after each line Feb 16 11:36:03 now I can updaete Feb 16 11:36:13 s/updaete/update Feb 16 11:36:16 mece: thresh is correct, sorry :) Feb 16 11:36:21 would seem Schneider's telling me I should import hardware and void warranty... gah Feb 16 11:36:43 This Maemo update requires the Nokia software application on your PC for installation. Connect device to PC via USB cable an open Nokia software update application. The application will guide you through the rest of the Maemo update. Feb 16 11:36:52 and i'd rather add -p instead of all that uglyness :) Feb 16 11:36:56 anyway.. the fact that I like Windows Phone 7 Series interface (i.e. Zune one) .. it's bad? Feb 16 11:37:09 ah well, least with the meego/Intel there should be less of this hattery ;) Feb 16 11:37:17 Anidel: no Feb 16 11:37:25 lardman, thanks.. Feb 16 11:37:34 I want some plain Windows 6.x email love Feb 16 11:38:01 looks like email experience in win 7 phone series is amazing.. we'll see Feb 16 11:38:30 Anidel: http://nexus404.com/Blog/wp-content/uploads2/2009/11/HTC-HS2-Smartphone-side-3-quarter-angle-email.jpg Feb 16 11:38:33 i hope windows 7 series *FAILS* *EPICALLY* Feb 16 11:38:44 El_Angelo, why? Feb 16 11:39:03 cause i want no ms monopoly in mobile space as well Feb 16 11:39:06 lardman, that's Sense UI.. you find the same widget into Android from HTC Feb 16 11:39:09 it will bring nothing than misery Feb 16 11:39:21 Anidel: ah right, well either way their UI is nice Feb 16 11:39:27 El_Angelo, actually.. I think this time is Apple monopoly Feb 16 11:39:29 has useful widgets anyway Feb 16 11:39:32 success != monopoly Feb 16 11:39:34 * thresh is dist-upgrading using apt-get, stupid appmanager sucks Feb 16 11:39:35 Anidel: no it's not Feb 16 11:39:35 lardman, indeed it is Feb 16 11:39:44 El_Angelo, yes it is. Feb 16 11:39:46 there are still less iphones than nokia's Feb 16 11:39:51 *WAY* less Feb 16 11:39:54 New WinMo 7 UI looks like a kid had an accident in a scrapbooking class Feb 16 11:39:57 and android is doing well Feb 16 11:39:59 * vmlemon_ hides Feb 16 11:40:12 and i'm not even judging the technology begin win7 Feb 16 11:40:14 lardman: "ooh shiny" Feb 16 11:40:14 El_Angelo, but sill an Apple monopoly. I wish THAT fails miserably Feb 16 11:40:19 vmlemon_: yes does a little, will be interesting to see what they do with i Feb 16 11:40:20 32MB per process Feb 16 11:40:24 Still in 2010 Feb 16 11:40:34 timeless_mbp: not shiny, just usable, far more so than the client we have Feb 16 11:40:37 Anidel: and still iphone's sucess is not hurting you Feb 16 11:40:45 lardman: that too Feb 16 11:40:48 the same can not be said about ms technology Feb 16 11:41:03 nice, dist-upgrade went fine Feb 16 11:41:14 * timeless_mbp kicks bugzilla Feb 16 11:41:21 well, almost Feb 16 11:41:22 like i really want a row with all goose eggs Feb 16 11:41:33 the iphone's success actually tends to be hurting the rest of the mobile community more than ms's success does with desktops Feb 16 11:41:37 El_Angelo, it is. Feb 16 11:41:50 El_Angelo, how come Win 6.x is hurting anybody ? Feb 16 11:42:00 win 6 is no succes... Feb 16 11:42:07 it still is an epic failure Feb 16 11:42:15 so... http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/maemo-dev-env-downloads.php there's no "not for debian based linuxes" Feb 16 11:42:16 no one like winmo6 Feb 16 11:42:22 El_Angelo, still it runs on a WIDE range of phones out there and will continue Feb 16 11:42:23 oh nevermind Feb 16 11:43:38 niiiiiiiiice: http://pastebin.ca/1798260 Feb 16 11:43:52 shit! 30Mb free and still complains Feb 16 11:44:21 Anidel: and still there is no monopoly in mobile space Feb 16 11:44:31 i want it to stay that way... that's why i like winmo7 to fail Feb 16 11:44:44 nothing more... nothing less Feb 16 11:45:02 El_Angelo, I wish the exact opposite :) we need more players Feb 16 11:45:13 i think that is a fair concern considering microsoft's state of record... Feb 16 11:45:38 i didn't say ms can't play in mobile space... Feb 16 11:45:43 they are totally allowed Feb 16 11:45:52 oh so this is not PR1.2 .. it's PR 1.1.1.? Feb 16 11:46:16 but i don't wish them *ANY* luck Feb 16 11:46:18 :) Feb 16 11:47:13 fair enough Feb 16 11:47:34 lol nothing like apt-get -f install to gget the upgrade through Feb 16 11:48:01 WTF!!!! he says I need 12Mb , I have 30Mb .. what is missing??? Feb 16 11:48:15 Anidel: its just minor patch no 1.2 Feb 16 11:48:37 Anidel: i needed around 40, disabled -devel and -testing and it should be fine Feb 16 11:48:42 ok, but why it says there is no space? Feb 16 11:48:47 Anidel, did you remove the extras repos? Feb 16 11:48:52 why disabling -devel and -testing helps? Feb 16 11:49:03 do they occupy that much space? Feb 16 11:49:05 anidel, caching and whatnot. Feb 16 11:49:12 thresh: thanks a lot =) Removing QT worked like a charm Feb 16 11:49:13 :/ Feb 16 11:49:15 anidel, yes. massive amounts Feb 16 11:49:20 RST38h: lucky you Feb 16 11:49:26 anidel, just disable, you don't need to remove. Feb 16 11:49:32 RST38h: i've dist-upgraded using apt and now one of the packages just does not configure :) Feb 16 11:49:46 rebooting atm, looks like it flashes nevertheless Feb 16 11:50:02 anidel, disable extras, testing, devel and any 3rd party repos Feb 16 11:50:11 anidel gives you 20M or so :) Feb 16 11:50:21 thanks.. it going ahead Feb 16 11:50:25 Just upgraded and haven't found any visible changes? whats in this update? Feb 16 11:50:33 they should optify HAM :D Feb 16 11:50:42 genis3ll: wifi fixes Feb 16 11:50:46 genis3ll, just minor bugfixes. Feb 16 11:51:20 asj_: mece: Should this improve battery consumption? Feb 16 11:51:22 asj_, wifi fixes? I can finally go back and forth from home and office without restarting my device? :) Feb 16 11:51:43 Anidel: maybe? :) Feb 16 11:51:46 I don't like it.. it's updating.. HAM said Operation Failed Feb 16 11:51:51 and it's going ahead? Feb 16 11:51:56 yup Feb 16 11:51:58 the Title Bar disappeared Feb 16 11:52:00 lots of people reporting that Feb 16 11:52:01 lol, mobile just doesnt start now :-( Feb 16 11:52:17 looks like i really need to use flasher Feb 16 11:52:17 anidel, i didn't look at mine, so I don't know what it did. worked fine though. Feb 16 11:52:29 still not even got an ota update showing here :( Feb 16 11:52:30 mece: you prefer to look away :D Feb 16 11:52:31 eheheh Feb 16 11:52:43 thresh: I would not dist-upgrade Maemo5 Feb 16 11:52:45 anidel, no, it was downloading, and I was busy. Feb 16 11:52:47 wow, started up now :-) Feb 16 11:52:52 mece: kidding :p Feb 16 11:52:53 thresh, :) Feb 16 11:52:54 it took the device four reboots Feb 16 11:52:57 thresh: BAD, BAD idea. Maemo4 was actually ok if approached carefully Feb 16 11:53:14 rebooting Feb 16 11:53:16 RST38h: how am i supposed to update it then? Feb 16 11:53:30 hammy Feb 16 11:53:44 it doesn't work. Feb 16 11:53:46 :) Feb 16 11:54:02 andre__: ping Feb 16 11:54:07 anyone seen any changes in the new firmware? Feb 16 11:54:16 is Qt updated? Feb 16 11:54:17 oh, nm Feb 16 11:54:19 timeless, pong Feb 16 11:54:24 sorry, i misread Feb 16 11:54:28 you moved version, not target milestone Feb 16 11:54:43 whoa! the rollercoaster game looks sweet! Feb 16 11:54:46 thresh: I have done apt-get remove libqt4-core Feb 16 11:54:52 ARG Feb 16 11:54:54 * timeless_mbp missed lunch Feb 16 11:54:55 * timeless_mbp cries Feb 16 11:54:59 thresh: It made a farting sound and autoupdated me with maemo5 Feb 16 11:55:00 http://mobiletechaddicts.com/2010/02/16/3d-games-coming-to-n900/ Feb 16 11:55:04 tru: Qt has never been part of the firmware, hence it cannot be updated... Feb 16 11:55:19 * andre__ hands over a cookie to timeless Feb 16 11:55:21 thresh: My guess is that HAM made that maemo5 update pending, then apt-get started it as soon as qt4 was removed Feb 16 11:55:23 andre__: only mostly correct Feb 16 11:55:27 andre__: oh, but I saw something about Qt4.6.2 for PR1.2. Feb 16 11:55:28 hehe Feb 16 11:55:34 we have a baseline bit of qt in maemo5 :) Feb 16 11:55:35 tru: yeah, but this is PR1.1.1 Feb 16 11:55:36 there was a fond change? Feb 16 11:55:38 it's used by mail iirc Feb 16 11:55:39 ah. Feb 16 11:55:41 ok. Feb 16 11:55:45 thanks for the clarification. Feb 16 11:55:47 np :) Feb 16 11:55:55 font Feb 16 11:56:12 thresh: About still shows 51.1 though, I hope it is ok Feb 16 11:56:17 ok updated.. not flawlessly, but updated Feb 16 11:56:29 RST38h: i'm pretty sure that's wrong Feb 16 11:56:31 RST38h: well, did it show the progressbar under Nokia logo on reboot? Feb 16 11:56:36 RST38h, that doesn't sound like it updated.. Feb 16 11:56:38 RST38h, it is wrong Feb 16 11:56:48 thresh: it did not reboot Feb 16 11:56:55 RST38h: you need to ask it to reboot Feb 16 11:57:01 then you did not flash it yet :-) Feb 16 11:57:04 mh. what a dumb update procedure Feb 16 11:57:06 Ok rebooting Feb 16 11:57:13 Shapeshifter: eh? Feb 16 11:57:14 and it says Version: 3.2010.02-8 here Feb 16 11:57:20 the default update procedure works quite nicely Feb 16 11:57:26 it's graphical, shiny, and painless Feb 16 11:57:30 timeless_mbp: wiping everything, having to restore backup. All very unlinuxy Feb 16 11:57:37 Shapeshifter, ? The update procedure is: launch ham, click update, choose maemo, click continue. Wait. Feb 16 11:57:40 Shapeshifter: um Feb 16 11:57:44 you're not supposed to do that Feb 16 11:57:52 if you did that, you weren't patient enough Feb 16 11:58:01 timeless_mbp: then why did it say "you have to connect to pc to update this" Feb 16 11:58:02 and really Feb 16 11:58:02 ok so nokia ma{kes,de} tires and TV's, but lunch? come on timless :P Feb 16 11:58:25 Shapeshifter, you need to uninstall some conflicting devel apps first. Feb 16 11:58:27 tybollt: who's timless? Feb 16 11:58:34 Shapeshifter: because something prevented it from working magically Feb 16 11:58:39 perhaps you didn't have enough space? Feb 16 11:58:40 timeless_mbp: patient enough? I saw an update "maemo5". I wanted to install it. Then it said "you have to connect to PC app to update". Feb 16 11:58:43 perhaps you had a conflicting package Feb 16 11:58:45 Showed dots then asked for pin Feb 16 11:58:46 timeless_mbp: uhm, then why didn't it say so. Feb 16 11:58:49 No flashing detected Feb 16 11:58:56 Shapeshifter, for me it was openarena. Feb 16 11:59:05 like "conflicts with package xy" or "not enough space" Feb 16 11:59:09 Shapeshifter: because nokia doesn't want people calling nokia care and spending millions of dollars getting support Feb 16 11:59:16 for things nokia care couldn't handle anyway Feb 16 11:59:22 but you, the idiot who did i Feb 16 11:59:24 timeless_mbp: well then I stand my point. what a dumb update procedure. Feb 16 11:59:28 should have asked for help here Feb 16 11:59:32 Shapeshifter: why? Feb 16 11:59:34 timeless_mbp: I did :) Feb 16 11:59:35 it saves nokia money Feb 16 11:59:37 scroll up Feb 16 11:59:43 timeless_mbp: Well aren't you mr nitpicker then? :) Feb 16 11:59:45 Shapeshifter, I didn't see it. sorry. Feb 16 11:59:50 no worries Feb 16 12:00:00 I don't date to demand help ;) Feb 16 12:00:02 *dare Feb 16 12:00:02 tybollt: i've been told to sign up for things as Tim E Less Feb 16 12:00:43 >:X Feb 16 12:00:44 Shapeshifter: the alternative for an automatic updater Feb 16 12:00:46 >:D Feb 16 12:00:56 when it reaches a state it can't handle are to try anyway and give you a brick Feb 16 12:01:03 the brick will um, make you much less happy Feb 16 12:01:06 and would be much more unixy Feb 16 12:01:07 fwiw Feb 16 12:01:26 indeed xD Feb 16 12:01:28 * tybollt bricks self Feb 16 12:01:32 the "use a flasher" is roughly equivalent to "printer is on fire" Feb 16 12:01:44 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lp0_on_fire Feb 16 12:01:45 mmmmh fire.... Feb 16 12:01:53 well, now I flashed it. And now it reinstalls all the apps. Feb 16 12:02:15 Shapeshifter: besides, if it manages to reinstall all your apps for you Feb 16 12:02:15 on beagle board the graphic chipset is onboard ? Feb 16 12:02:18 and you keep your settings Feb 16 12:02:19 so, ChangeLog. I just created http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_5/PR1.1.1 Feb 16 12:02:20 then who cares? Feb 16 12:02:29 timeless_mbp: sure Feb 16 12:02:35 the apple update model fwiw is to reflash and reinstall apps Feb 16 12:02:45 apple is not a reference ;) Feb 16 12:02:49 andre__, thankee-sai! Feb 16 12:02:54 apple is unix ;) Feb 16 12:03:00 yes Feb 16 12:03:05 timeless_mbp, apple is evil Feb 16 12:03:05 andre__: nice, thanks! Feb 16 12:03:06 Apple is more Unix than Linux Feb 16 12:03:09 oh and now I'm positively surprised, the auto-reinstall thingy lets me pick which apps to reinstall Feb 16 12:03:11 sure :) Feb 16 12:03:16 iphnoe is different from all apple stuffs Feb 16 12:03:20 so I can untick openarena not to download 250mb over 3G Feb 16 12:03:29 Shapeshifter: heh Feb 16 12:03:29 andre__: "Fiasco-gen was published in PR1.1.1 SDK" - I guess the SDK was updated? ;) Feb 16 12:03:35 i'm moreand more seeing as a linux os mobile than an apple os Feb 16 12:03:45 Shapeshifter, openarena was what made ham updating not work in the first place :) Feb 16 12:03:53 heh Feb 16 12:03:55 Shapeshifter: no, you have to submit the question in writing (hand written) and snailmail it to Nookla. Feb 16 12:04:13 is it cool or lame that we are using a system invented in 1969? Feb 16 12:04:19 icd usb networking is finally in maemotorius, niiiiiice Feb 16 12:04:24 frals, not according to the Nokians I talked with. Interesting. Seems there's different info around :) Feb 16 12:04:39 bug #7972 Feb 16 12:04:41 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7972 Kernel in PR1.1 build-depends on fiasco-gen which is nowhere to be found Feb 16 12:04:45 fragment, yeah, I saw it Feb 16 12:04:57 konttori_work: is there a changelog for this release? Feb 16 12:05:06 oh sorry, frals ^^ Feb 16 12:05:17 tybollt, http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_5/PR1.1.1 for my part Feb 16 12:05:25 http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_5/PR1.1.1 :D Feb 16 12:05:26 LOL Feb 16 12:05:48 that's only my (public) part though Feb 16 12:05:50 jajaja no need to mock me, I do that quite enought myself. :) Feb 16 12:06:45 so.. bug 6615 fixed. Hmmpf. I thought it was general battery use. I never had this problem. Feb 16 12:06:47 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6615 Battery Dies Under 6 Hours with Very Moderate Use (Static IP?) Feb 16 12:08:17 hi, i'm thinking of buying the nokia n900 with maemo, i know that here there is someone who has it... how is it? what are the pro/cons? Feb 16 12:08:18 mece: I'm sorry that your bug was fixed and had a different root ;-)) Feb 16 12:08:48 mika__, you can probably spend hours in http://talk.maemo.org/ reading about people's impressions... :) any specific questions? Feb 16 12:09:10 ugh... Feb 16 12:09:22 did this update just brick my device or what? :S Feb 16 12:09:34 mika__: I got one ... and I simply love it ... granted, it's probably the biggest phone in physical shape I'd ever consider ... but maemo5 is great ... the open OS is great ... it works perfect .... but it's more a computer than a phone ... the phone features are not as strong as the rest of the features Feb 16 12:09:51 andre__: mmm..ok, i'll look at it, thanks :) most important are if there is something to sync it with kde (kdepim) and what will change with meego Feb 16 12:10:10 halp \o/ Feb 16 12:10:17 iz crashink Feb 16 12:10:28 meego? shrug. not much. Feb 16 12:10:37 kdepim... hmm... don't know Feb 16 12:11:09 dazo: how's the touch screen? i mean, is it precise or do you have to tap more than once? Feb 16 12:11:24 Mh. This app manager is really slow. I mean, apt is slow already, but this manager keeps "updating" stuff and "reloading" things after every step you make. I guess it's going to get even worse with rpm. Feb 16 12:11:28 hmm so does anyone else have a non functioning (just screen flashing in black and the occasional colour) device after update + reboot? Feb 16 12:11:50 my N900 load avg is 3.01 and 3.82 the current .. the thumbnailerd 60% CPU.. thanks :( Feb 16 12:12:12 yeah I do have plenty of images synched .. but still.. tell me Feb 16 12:12:33 mika__: well, I've never really used a capacitative touch screen more than I've looked at iPhones a few years ago .... but I don't find any problems with the screen to be honest ... sometimes, I do need to tap an extra time or two, but that's seldom for me Feb 16 12:12:44 tell me you're killing my batter, tell me you're making my system unusable.. tell me something Feb 16 12:12:52 (probably because my big fingers move too much during the tap) Feb 16 12:12:55 mika__, Re MeeGo: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=527251&postcount=87 Feb 16 12:13:32 https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7757 <- wow Feb 16 12:13:33 Bug 7757: wrong cmt-firmware-rx51 (cell modem) version in published firmware? Feb 16 12:14:14 how do i check if packages is in SDK? Feb 16 12:14:18 is there any gui Feb 16 12:14:48 oh nevermind, found m.o/p Feb 16 12:14:57 and as i thought, libicd2-dev is not in SDK Feb 16 12:15:20 the stuff to make plugins? Feb 16 12:15:21 it should be Feb 16 12:15:37 sure you don't mean icd2-osso-ic-dev? Feb 16 12:15:47 yes, i'm sure Feb 16 12:16:27 http://maemo.gitorious.org/icd2-network-modules/libicd-network-usb/blobs/master/debian/control implies it should be there, though Feb 16 12:16:36 thresh: Should be in nokia binaries repo. Feb 16 12:16:40 Ok, I seemingly have not updated and do not see the update Feb 16 12:17:14 RST38h: Staggered release, are you in the US? Feb 16 12:17:33 X-Fade: .RU but using proxy that places me either into .IE or .US Feb 16 12:17:48 What is staggered release? Feb 16 12:17:53 RST38h: Well US will be later. Feb 16 12:18:04 but I have seen it just moments ago Feb 16 12:18:07 proxies wont do anything, it's your product code that matters Feb 16 12:18:08 RST38h: Release per region to lower the traffic. Feb 16 12:18:19 how does the staggered release work out of interest? Feb 16 12:18:19 *peak Feb 16 12:18:25 nid0: eh? Feb 16 12:18:42 * RST38h checks by google what region he is in Feb 16 12:18:51 RST38h: use GPS Feb 16 12:18:52 X-Fade: I am in .IE Feb 16 12:19:04 I'm in .au :( Feb 16 12:19:20 X-Fade: Could you tell me the exact package name so that I can check with apt-get from command line? Feb 16 12:19:43 * Caesium told you earlier, mp-fremantle-002-pr Feb 16 12:19:52 RST38h: Myself I am in .FIREFOX Feb 16 12:19:57 it's just a meta-package that depends on all the other stuff Feb 16 12:20:08 thanks =) Feb 16 12:20:14 * RST38h got carried away at work Feb 16 12:20:15 RST38h: Depends on who you got your device from. And which region ;) Feb 16 12:20:29 X-Fade: developer device, euro1 Feb 16 12:20:30 apt-cache show mp-fremantle-002-pr gives me Version: 3.2010.02-8.002 Feb 16 12:20:31 X-Fade: still it is not. Feb 16 12:20:41 RST38h: The mp-fremantle metapackage has different name for certain regions. Feb 16 12:21:17 RST38h: And even providers :) Feb 16 12:21:51 Unable to locate package Feb 16 12:22:16 anything for dpkg -l | grep mp-fremantle? Feb 16 12:22:17 does anyone have MyFoneKit BT HF with n900? Feb 16 12:22:17 what she said Feb 16 12:22:29 RST38h: mp-fremantle-generic-pr ? Feb 16 12:22:35 A moment, checking Feb 16 12:22:44 cock... I have about 3k lines of code, and one query that fails... Now how the hell do I find the query? Feb 16 12:23:05 crashanddie_: Selective commenting? Feb 16 12:23:22 X-Fade: in 3k lines of code? Feb 16 12:23:28 Caesium: No such thing Feb 16 12:23:35 crashanddie_: put one in the middle. Feb 16 12:23:38 RST38h: I'm pretty sure Caesium exists Feb 16 12:23:43 crashanddie_: And then split from there ;) Feb 16 12:23:45 :D Feb 16 12:23:51 crashanddie_: You will find it soon enough. Feb 16 12:23:56 RST38h: strange then, wonder what metapackage you have instead Feb 16 12:23:59 X-Fade: dude... It's not a linear file... Feb 16 12:24:00 X-Fade: generic does show up Feb 16 12:24:08 well, maybe i'm the only one who has it Feb 16 12:24:15 mmf. any experiences with last update? feels sluggish, screen doesn't update properly... Feb 16 12:24:27 RST38h: Then it is not avaible on that mirror yet. Feb 16 12:24:33 definitely something wrong. Feb 16 12:24:40 X-Fade: I am installing -generic, is it ok? Feb 16 12:24:43 RST38h: Just wait, it is a very minor update anyway. Feb 16 12:24:55 Veggen: so far it's ok here (~25 minutes) Feb 16 12:25:04 X-Fade: Should I stop downloading generic? Feb 16 12:25:10 thumbnailerd still at 50% variable of CPU Feb 16 12:25:14 :/ Feb 16 12:25:24 ooh - new PR today :) Feb 16 12:25:24 RST38h: apt-get dist-upgrade! Feb 16 12:25:27 Anidel: kill it Feb 16 12:25:35 lardman, you think it's stuck? Feb 16 12:25:39 Anidel: yeah Feb 16 12:25:44 let's try Feb 16 12:25:49 thresh: Naah, I am too much of a chicken for that =)9 Feb 16 12:25:49 I had that on the last release, killed it and it went away Feb 16 12:26:02 RST38h: at least it will show you if you have something to ugprade :) Feb 16 12:26:19 guys.... Feb 16 12:26:26 attention when upgrading to 1.1.1 Feb 16 12:26:33 dist-upgrade still shows me 4 packages to upgrade even after the 1.1.1 update, weird Feb 16 12:26:36 I got an infinite loop reboot :( Feb 16 12:26:43 lardman, it's the second time it happens.. anyway.. it's not sucking up CPU now Feb 16 12:26:50 gstreamer0.10-tools maemo-launcher pymaemo-optify python-support .. wonder why they weren't done as part of the other update Feb 16 12:26:58 I had to remove battery and flash it from scratch Feb 16 12:27:03 I thought it was working on my huge picture gallery.. but indeed it was stuck Feb 16 12:27:11 dudes, you really should use application manager to make the updates. Feb 16 12:27:23 konttori: Application Manager shows me nothing now Feb 16 12:27:25 and now, after the upgrade, it doesn't see the internal MMC :S Feb 16 12:27:29 konttori_work: oh I did, I just typed dist-upgrade as a matter of curiousity.. not actually going to do it :) Feb 16 12:27:46 Andy80, you flashed and rebooted and it doesn't see it ? Feb 16 12:27:48 no infinite reboot loop here, but the n900 is sluggy as hell, I got left-over clutter on screen frequently, etc... Feb 16 12:27:56 konttori: Wondering if I should download and install mp-fremantle-generic-pr Feb 16 12:28:12 Anidel: exactly, now I've rebooted again, let's see... Feb 16 12:28:17 Veggen this happened to me sometimes .. reboot, let it reboot quietly and don't use it until it's done loading everything.. Feb 16 12:28:28 now it can see it... Feb 16 12:29:10 restoring settings from backup.... Feb 16 12:29:24 Andy80, cross your fingers:) Feb 16 12:30:20 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-_rf2jVxxY Feb 16 12:30:21 hehe Feb 16 12:31:44 WTF do people in the forum always write "Maemo 5 3.2"? where does this weird "3.2" come from? Feb 16 12:32:02 3.2 ???? Feb 16 12:32:16 the keys to the right of "1" ? Feb 16 12:32:22 andre__: they are in a forum.... Feb 16 12:32:29 seems better after reboot. *puh* Feb 16 12:32:47 or perhaps they are stressing the 32bit nature of the OS ;) Feb 16 12:32:50 <---using my n900 as my primary phone, nowadays. I'd hate to go back to my old Nokia. Feb 16 12:32:57 I would love to be able to watch ustream.tv on N900 Feb 16 12:33:40 * timeless_mbp grumbles Feb 16 12:33:47 who files bugs about Browser stealing focus? Feb 16 12:34:00 * tybollt hands timeless a pink poneh Feb 16 12:34:19 ap manager or something steals focus Feb 16 12:35:03 especially when installing apps and you switch away with ctrl-backspace Feb 16 12:35:06 I'll file a bug report about the browser + flash b0rking but that's another story Feb 16 12:35:26 and silly ad block can't cope Feb 16 12:35:28 asj_, the notification banner when an app got installed steals the focus, more specifically Feb 16 12:35:30 silly willy ap Feb 16 12:35:32 ap Feb 16 12:35:38 mikhas: oh ya that's it Feb 16 12:35:38 is there a "mlocate" equivalent for maemo5? Feb 16 12:35:42 yellow bar in app manager steals focus from everything. Feb 16 12:36:06 not just xterm slonopotamus ? Feb 16 12:36:09 slonopotamus: that has got to be way way intentional :) Feb 16 12:36:14 hey guys, Feb 16 12:36:21 that is way wrong tybollt Feb 16 12:36:25 anyoen has a changelog for the new fw? Feb 16 12:36:28 n900 maemo5 fw Feb 16 12:36:36 thought it was a problem with xterm Feb 16 12:37:30 pupnik, that is everything :) dunno, haven't tried with other apps Feb 16 12:37:39 it was posted. search pr1.2 features/changelog g0tcha Feb 16 12:37:53 pupnik: is it /wrong/? Iono, not IMHO Feb 16 12:38:06 pupnik is less humble than me, though ;) Feb 16 12:38:17 pupnik, search for that where? Feb 16 12:38:20 heya all Feb 16 12:38:24 anyone else experiences _sometimes_ nonworking language switcher in microb? Feb 16 12:38:34 how am i supposed to install proper fonts to N900? Feb 16 12:38:40 it isnt intntional iirc. i cant be arsed to search for the bug Feb 16 12:39:03 pupnik: I fancy that behavior *shrug* Feb 16 12:39:28 * timeless_mbp files bug 9079 Feb 16 12:39:29 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9079 Mail steals focus when loading a message after another app is brought to the foreground Feb 16 12:39:47 slonopotamus: "language switcher"?? Feb 16 12:40:21 tybollt: yeah the banner from app manager is really lame Feb 16 12:40:28 i believe that's a frameworks bug Feb 16 12:40:37 poke konttori_work to poke someone :) Feb 16 12:40:45 (make sure there's a public bug filed before poking people) Feb 16 12:40:53 timeless_mbp: you may call me lamer, but I don't have a problem w/ it. Feb 16 12:40:57 9079 is a lot less bothersome since it also gets visual focus too, not just input focus Feb 16 12:41:14 asj_: true Feb 16 12:41:21 but i don't install apps that often Feb 16 12:41:28 for some stupid reason i do read mail and use notes Feb 16 12:41:34 although that's probably because i'm translating mail Feb 16 12:41:57 lardman: pong Feb 16 12:42:21 * timeless_mbp wonders what Crazycat is and why it wants to update Feb 16 12:42:25 timeless_mbp: the app installer though gives you no indication why you can't do anything till you swap out Feb 16 12:42:38 asj_: oh, i know Feb 16 12:42:45 ok :) Feb 16 12:42:52 timeless, hat have I missed? Feb 16 12:42:55 timeless_mbp: so my bug is worse than your bug ;p Feb 16 12:43:01 asj_: oh, absolutely :) Feb 16 12:43:11 konttori_work: i'll let asj gripe Feb 16 12:43:31 * timeless_mbp is busy poking something else Feb 16 12:44:04 timeless_mbp: I only wish that was my biggest problem Feb 16 12:44:17 asj_: you have konttori_work 's attn for half a minute, don't spoil it Feb 16 12:45:26 * timeless_mbp ponders Feb 16 12:45:49 wow Feb 16 12:45:50 nah, i pitty the maemo group at the moment, I want to be kind to them Feb 16 12:45:53 ham can steal focus too Feb 16 12:46:08 wasn't that the topic timeless? Feb 16 12:46:10 it just came up saying my catalog list was unhappy Feb 16 12:46:25 timeless_mbp: or ham <-> golden bar? Feb 16 12:46:28 tybollt: well, asj's complaint is when it steals focus w/o popping to top Feb 16 12:46:34 because it uses an infobanner Feb 16 12:46:39 i'm complaining about window popping to top Feb 16 12:46:43 timeless_mbp: ack, that's something else :S Feb 16 12:46:44 in my case using a dialog Feb 16 12:47:03 yes I'm saying I _like_ the popping to top behaviour, ++, keep it ;) Feb 16 12:47:06 tybollt: to test, you need: 1. a package to update. 2. a repository to break Feb 16 12:47:28 break the repository, ask to update the package, once it gives you the yellow box Feb 16 12:47:38 dismiss it and immediately switch to another task Feb 16 12:47:48 Me too (steal focus without being visible app-mangler) Feb 16 12:47:52 eventually it should swap back complaining about the repository you break Feb 16 12:48:08 yes I distinctly remembre having had that Feb 16 12:48:17 it's ok Feb 16 12:48:17 SpeedEvil: seen that when using anything but xterm? Feb 16 12:48:19 can i get you to file it? :) Feb 16 12:48:33 pupnik: i'm using notes mostly Feb 16 12:48:41 pupnik: yes. fbreader Feb 16 12:48:46 if I'm fucking around in HAM I expect it to override my other tasks and grab attention when needed (that's me, others will think I'm nuts) Feb 16 12:48:50 mmmmmh nuts... Feb 16 12:48:51 but i was actually in Image Viewer this time Feb 16 12:48:53 thanks! i am corrected Feb 16 12:48:57 asj_, if you have some issue, just lemme know. But include my name in the comment so that I actually see it. Feb 16 12:49:19 otherwise, I miss it. I'm doing quite many other things atm besides watching this channel Feb 16 12:49:23 konttori_work: if I real a issue I'd file a bug report :) Feb 16 12:49:26 * timeless_mbp rotfl Feb 16 12:49:31 one of my countries is "Error" Feb 16 12:49:39 do i get points for that? Feb 16 12:49:53 bug reports will get eventually fixed, but if you need something still for pr1.2, ping me Feb 16 12:50:00 as we are about to close it any day now. Feb 16 12:50:07 konttori_work: oh right Feb 16 12:50:12 timeless_mbp: Very dogbert'ish points if so :P Feb 16 12:50:15 we have a bug in skype that *really* needs to be fixed Feb 16 12:50:24 konttori_work: thanks :) Feb 16 12:50:25 konttori_work: we forgot to file it Feb 16 12:50:36 morning Feb 16 12:51:21 * tybollt happy camper I'm not using skyper Feb 16 12:51:26 hrw did you look at seqretary for alarms? Feb 16 12:51:47 * hrw got to the computer after few days of being offline and lot of things happened Feb 16 12:52:08 n900 dropped, maemo dropped etc Feb 16 12:52:25 lot of posts 'I will go android' etc Feb 16 12:52:52 hrw: My n900 was dropped. Feb 16 12:53:01 hrw: only off the sofa onto carpet though. Feb 16 12:53:07 many silly posts (incl ine) Feb 16 12:53:11 My mom dropped me a lot as a kid Feb 16 12:53:12 :( Feb 16 12:53:26 ;D Feb 16 12:53:38 hmm whats this "meego" thing everyone is talking about? Feb 16 12:53:43 is maemo going to change or something? Feb 16 12:53:44 pupnik: shrug... initial reactions are like that... people will come around :) Feb 16 12:53:48 but I can understand why maemo got dropped in favour of meego. Feb 16 12:53:59 g0tcha: moblin and maemo, are merging into meego Feb 16 12:54:05 hrw: what do you like the name 'meego'? Feb 16 12:54:15 w00t, why? Feb 16 12:54:18 it is simpler to develop 10 apps instead of develop more of them and full base system Feb 16 12:54:21 is meego anything special? Feb 16 12:54:27 tybollt: que? Feb 16 12:54:29 tybollt, the name meego sounds lame tbh Feb 16 12:54:35 g0tcha: it's what both communities make of it Feb 16 12:54:54 hrw: the new name for the project... 'meego' Feb 16 12:54:56 g0tcha: meego is a collaboration between intel moblin and maemo. Feb 16 12:55:11 and nookla Feb 16 12:55:14 so is our N900 becoming obselete very fast or what? Feb 16 12:55:15 tybollt: for me they could choose anyname - it is just a branding Feb 16 12:55:18 yeah Feb 16 12:55:19 with this meego thing? Feb 16 12:55:23 SpeedEvil, really??? Feb 16 12:55:24 wtf Feb 16 12:55:30 really. Feb 16 12:55:40 SpeedEvil: um, say what Feb 16 12:55:46 Jaffa: mwn ;) thx Feb 16 12:55:51 what Feb 16 12:56:09 http://meego.com/about/overview/big-merge-message-intel-and-nokia Feb 16 12:56:22 video Feb 16 12:56:26 Jaffa: during fosdem some nokia guys rumoured about mms+videocalls in pr1.2 - but now... will 1.2 ever be released? Feb 16 12:56:37 crying that all hope is lost a day after the announcement is a bit ..premature, I think, to say the last Feb 16 12:56:37 hrw: Yes, PR 1.2 will be released Feb 16 12:56:57 hrw: There was a 1.1.1 release even today. Don't worry ;) Feb 16 12:57:10 X-Fade: what in 1.1.1? Feb 16 12:57:16 hrw: Athough MMS in 1.2? No way. Feb 16 12:57:32 fMMS! <3 Feb 16 12:57:44 actually merging mobile distros is useful for us in principle Feb 16 12:58:14 pupnik: It actually being a distro even more. Feb 16 12:58:18 MMS support is clearly beyond the wit of man. Only aliens could do it. Feb 16 12:58:28 pupnik: it's more than useful when you consider the X and kernel expertise that intel can help offer Feb 16 12:58:30 pupnik: agreed Feb 16 12:58:34 SpeedEvil: not talking about USSD. Feb 16 12:58:41 which even aliens cant master yet Feb 16 12:58:53 there is a ussd-widget I though Feb 16 12:58:54 t Feb 16 12:59:03 w00t: X yes, kernel? this is rather left for vendors to care when it comes to phones Feb 16 12:59:05 made by an overmind. Feb 16 12:59:15 Wow, that 3d rollercoaster game was VERY impressive. Feb 16 12:59:17 hi there ! I've got a maemo update available for my n900, but hildon-appinstaller says that I need some nokia connectivity apps to do such update... why ? Feb 16 12:59:26 SpeedEvil: weird Feb 16 12:59:40 zerojay: where? Feb 16 12:59:49 ari's comment about "Linux is honest" at around 2:35 Feb 16 12:59:50 hrw: for some, yes, but not for all.. I imagine there will be a fair bit of collaboration over time Feb 16 13:00:14 pupnik: http://url4.eu/1PmHX Feb 16 13:00:29 rom1dep: typically that either means you don't have enough space, or you have a conflicting package Feb 16 13:00:40 rom1dep: mece has a script that will help w/ the former Feb 16 13:00:58 ari has a very "visionary"esque way of writing... frankly I can't quite stand it :-| Feb 16 13:01:32 w00t: nokia shown in past that they lack skills to push support for their hardware into mainline Feb 16 13:01:33 no offence intended Feb 16 13:02:09 timeless_mbp: and if i go throught apt-get upgrade, what'll happen ? Feb 16 13:02:10 w00t: 770 or n8x0 were never supported in vanilla kernel during their 'on market' time Feb 16 13:02:21 * SpeedEvil has had bad experiances with visionary leaders. See OpenMoko. Feb 16 13:02:57 SpeedEvil: That project went promptly in the shitter right? They are doing what these days? Feb 16 13:03:11 rom1dep: if you don't use the script that mece evolved? Feb 16 13:03:15 you'll run out of space Feb 16 13:03:17 hrw: if you keep focusing on the past, you'll never get *anywhere*. Feb 16 13:03:37 SpeedEvil: thankfully nokia doesn't have visionary leaders :) Feb 16 13:03:39 w00t: which is exactly what the moderates want >:) Feb 16 13:03:39 rom1dep, http://wiki.maemo.org/Free_up_rootfs_space#Use_a_script_to_move_things_from_.2F_to_.2Fhome.2Fopt.2F Feb 16 13:03:41 hrw: saying 'it won't happen because it has never happened' is a great way to kill off a good thing before it has a chance Feb 16 13:03:52 mece: \o/ Feb 16 13:04:08 mece: please change 'make it executable' to be a box explaining how to do that :) Feb 16 13:04:09 timeless_mbp: mece: thanks I'll have a look Feb 16 13:04:13 tybollt: The problem fundamentally was that in mid 2008 there was a functional software stack. It was OK. It made calls, it had a few bugs, it could have been faster. With 6 months polishing it was definately suitable for a 'hacker user' release by xmas 2008. Feb 16 13:04:55 right so? Feb 16 13:05:00 tybollt: So - several weeks before it got to the 'almost stable' state - the chairman pops up at a conference - saying 'something really!!!!!!!!!!1 coool!!! is coming!@!!!! Feb 16 13:05:09 tybollt: And they decide to completely revamp the UI Feb 16 13:05:19 text Feb 16 13:05:20 re Feb 16 13:05:21 flow Feb 16 13:05:24 :) Feb 16 13:05:46 w00t: n900 is my 3rd linux device from nokia. previous ones still use original systems cause getting something free and fresh is nearly impossible. why should I think that n900 will be different? Feb 16 13:06:03 tybollt: Which of course - takes ages. Then as it's sort-of-working - after about a year - chairman pops up at a conference - says 'something really cool is coming!' - change to Qt. Feb 16 13:06:05 SpeedEvil:I recall some about shifting focus to another device even before finalizing the first one? Feb 16 13:06:08 w00t: there is still no access to n900 kernel tree Feb 16 13:06:38 hrw: great, let's all pack up and go home and buy an iphone Feb 16 13:07:30 tybollt: That too. The first device was fundamentally OK. It had some minor tweaks needed. It was a functional phone. The second device was supposed to be all singing and dancing with a graphics accel. But the original 200MHz device with a dumb framebuffer with no accell at all - and the 400MHz device with a graphics accel - turn out - after lots and lots of effort coding for the GPU - as a wash. Feb 16 13:07:48 tybollt: The graphics accel was _bad_. Feb 16 13:07:51 w00t: i think that next 3-4 months will show Feb 16 13:08:10 hrw: that I do agree with Feb 16 13:08:26 hrw: but panning stuff before it even happens, while easy, is just not a proactive approach Feb 16 13:08:49 SpeedEvil: where are they today though? ceased entirely or? Feb 16 13:09:21 iphone is overpriced jewelry. but many people buy jewelry Feb 16 13:09:25 * timeless_mbp rotfl Feb 16 13:09:52 what now tim e less? Feb 16 13:09:57 root@timeless-tablet:/# reboot Feb 16 13:10:02 ja? Feb 16 13:10:04 "Will you see MeeGo on your N900? I don’t think so. Should you get excited about MeeGo? Yes, but now’s not the time for that." = thats nice quote from http://maemo.org/midcom-permalink-4754ef661a4511df86465719f89f43da43da post Feb 16 13:10:05 -bash: /sbin/reboot: Input/output error Feb 16 13:10:12 timeless_mbp: meh :P Feb 16 13:11:46 * timeless_mbp kills timeless-tablet Feb 16 13:11:59 :( Feb 16 13:12:10 satmd: it's a vm Feb 16 13:12:10 * satmd revives timeless-zombie Feb 16 13:12:18 on a laptop whose hdd is dying Feb 16 13:12:21 and I was making a joke :P Feb 16 13:12:56 tybollt: Basically sitting on a slowly decreasing pile of old hardware that they're selling. Also went sideways into the wikireader. Which was a rugged wikipedia reader. Which was good - but nothing spectacular. Feb 16 13:12:59 heh, 'resolvconf: Error: /etc/resov.conf must be a symlink' Feb 16 13:15:53 soo, the changelog? I can't find it. Feb 16 13:16:13 except Qt Feb 16 13:16:17 Shapeshifter: it was listed repeatedly in this channel while you were alive Feb 16 13:16:26 timeless_mbp: okay thanks Feb 16 13:18:25 Shapeshifter: what about qt - nothing about it in the changelog Feb 16 13:18:31 timeless_mbp, done. Feb 16 13:18:46 or you getting at the harmattan pics? Feb 16 13:19:26 * timeless_mbp frowns Feb 16 13:19:38 * timeless_mbp wonders how PIPE works in apt dependencies Feb 16 13:21:42 "Auto-rotation (portrait/landscape) is now supported via window-flag, no more manual D-Bus usage required" - looks like I will like newer Qt/maemo more Feb 16 13:22:12 thks Feb 16 13:22:56 which may indeed pull down on the port/land related bugs Feb 16 13:23:27 hrw: ooh, there's a dbus api for roation? Feb 16 13:23:31 I had a massive one (required reboot :) just during lunch today when showing the device to my colleagues... People got way irked :) Feb 16 13:23:35 timeless_mbp: the "or" dependencies kind of pipe? Feb 16 13:23:41 yea Feb 16 13:24:00 timeless_mbp: I have recently found out that "it depends", specifically on if you use aptitude or apt-get (or something else?) to install the package Feb 16 13:24:09 marienz: heh Feb 16 13:24:09 timeless_mbp: for accelettion orientation Feb 16 13:24:12 Anybody else noticing the "keypress sent twice" bug on vncviewer? Feb 16 13:24:29 hrw: i need a way to force portrait and then force landscape Feb 16 13:24:34 will dbus let me do that? Feb 16 13:24:41 timeless_mbp: the dep is satisfied if any of the packages in the or is installed. apt-get picks the first one if none of them is installed yet. aptitude does something more complicated (afaik roughly: tries them all and picks the least "disruptive" based on some metric, like how many extra packages would be installed) Feb 16 13:24:45 timeless_mbp: when you listen on dbus you get portrait/landscape and face up/down messages Feb 16 13:25:06 timeless_mbp: use dbus-monitor or mdbus2 on system bus and rotate n900 few times Feb 16 13:25:19 hrw: i don't want to actually change the device Feb 16 13:25:22 i'm software Feb 16 13:25:26 i need the screen to change orientation Feb 16 13:25:32 wohoo! nice apps coming soon http://www.youtube.com/nokiaconversations#p/u/0/K7lHPX_iHKs Feb 16 13:25:40 because if i don't force it to do that twice, the screen ends up looking awful Feb 16 13:25:51 timeless_mbp: andto force orientation I do not know - I use same code as was in Qt 4.6 examples/maemo5/rotation/ Feb 16 13:26:16 i'm generally /bin/sh not something fancy, i don't really have a 'window' :) Feb 16 13:26:30 marienz: so... Feb 16 13:26:39 what i have is a package A which used to depend on package B Feb 16 13:26:58 package B is somewhat obsoleted by a package C in a newer version Feb 16 13:27:04 konttori_work: Congrats on PR1.1.1. Is there any info yet on how Ovi's doing paid content? Feb 16 13:27:09 the user only installs Package A. Feb 16 13:27:19 Package C is part of the system and upgrades randomly Feb 16 13:27:25 Jaffa, plain old .deb files Feb 16 13:27:39 i want to release a newer package A which will result in package B being uninstalled if there's a new enough package C Feb 16 13:27:52 but if there isn't a new enough package C, then i want to install package B (a dependency) Feb 16 13:28:01 i wrote depends C (>= ...) | B Feb 16 13:28:13 timeless_mbp: I don't know how to do that yet. I think you'd normally express the uninstall part of that by having C replace B. Feb 16 13:28:26 marienz: yeah, but C doesn't know about B Feb 16 13:28:30 konttori_work: And is it using per-user virtual repos or something else? Feb 16 13:28:33 C is a buggy or non buggy system package Feb 16 13:28:38 timeless_mbp: I don't know if you can express the uninstall part then. Feb 16 13:28:41 B is a patch to repair the buggy system package Feb 16 13:29:18 hrm, teh system notification area hasn't resurrected itself yet Feb 16 13:29:36 isn't it supposed to be life guarded? Feb 16 13:29:40 ogl es 1.1 !? whoa! Feb 16 13:30:19 pupnik: the description's lame Feb 16 13:30:31 it's more like "there are various bad version labels for an opengles package Feb 16 13:30:33 Installed. Feb 16 13:30:36 this sort of fixes them, maybe" Feb 16 13:30:37 Yahoo Feb 16 13:31:08 * RST38h still wants a preservable reflow switch in the MicroB. Who should I bribe? Feb 16 13:31:32 RST38h: babu Feb 16 13:31:59 heh Feb 16 13:32:00 heh I used to have a female friend nicknamed babu, so that sounds awkward ;) Feb 16 13:32:13 someone's username had a '.' in it, and that broke accounting :) Feb 16 13:32:35 i need a basement full of coders for ports Feb 16 13:33:02 anybody want to live rent free: :) Feb 16 13:33:21 "will hack for food" Feb 16 13:36:41 pupnik: see www.nmfs.noaa.gov/mb/sk/pdf/Report_18.pdf Feb 16 13:38:11 * crashanddie_ tries not throwing up Feb 16 13:38:31 In order to make the application auto-rotate depending on the current device orientation, Qt::WA_Maemo5AutoOrientation must be set on a top-level widget. Feb 16 13:38:35 Note: The device's rotation sensor will be enabled when auto-orientation is switched on, which will drain extra battery power. Feb 16 13:38:44 ~hail Qt 4.6.2 Feb 16 13:38:45 * infobot bows down to Qt 4.6.2 and chants, "I'M NOT WORTHY!!" Feb 16 13:38:58 umm Feb 16 13:39:10 I'm sure it has a threshold reporter somewhere Feb 16 13:39:14 ~burn Qt 4.6.2 Feb 16 13:39:15 * infobot pours gasoline all over Qt 4.6.2, ignites the fire, and then enjoys some toasty marshmallows with the glorious blaze Feb 16 13:39:17 which means that doesn't have to be true Feb 16 13:39:30 * SpeedEvil needs to reread the datasheet Feb 16 13:40:28 SpeedEvil: saved Feb 16 13:40:39 * crashanddie_ just created 2 twitter accounts :./ Feb 16 13:42:07 nok Q/A on twitter right now btw. http://tweetchat.com/room/NokiaMWC Feb 16 13:43:16 how totally impractical this link is Feb 16 13:44:04 Hmm - yes. It can interrupt on low and high accelleration thresholds - programmable - in each axes. So you can setup the accel so it doesn't interrupt unless it's moved 45 degrees out of the current orientation Feb 16 13:44:50 i've created flickr account Feb 16 13:45:02 just because there is no imageshack support Feb 16 13:46:57 jacekowski, pixelpipe has imageshack Feb 16 13:47:10 pixelpipe wants to register with them Feb 16 13:47:16 screw them. Feb 16 13:47:49 on the other hand, picasa support has been just added, so I am a happy camper =) Feb 16 13:48:38 RST38h, you can use ovi or twitter account to login to pixelpipe Feb 16 13:49:01 * RST38h has no ovi or twitter accounts either Feb 16 13:49:16 RST38h, well I guess you're out of luck there then :) Feb 16 13:49:18 very cool SpeedEvil. now lets trigger a voice recorder with that Feb 16 13:49:31 * RST38h keeps number of accounts minimal, for gigienic reasons Feb 16 13:50:06 RST38h, is gigienic really a word? Feb 16 13:50:26 mece: google, will ya? Feb 16 13:50:47 RST38h, google says no. Feb 16 13:50:56 mece: make a sacrifice. Feb 16 13:51:55 RST38h: funny how h and g are close to one anothe reh? Feb 16 13:51:55 hi all! I have a short question: How customizable is the maemo implementation on the N900? Can I remove the non-free software that I don't want to have on my phone such as the flash player? Feb 16 13:52:41 RST38h: I figured that one out -- I noticed T and G were pretty close too -- when I was writing an email to my team, finishing in: Thanks, regards! Feb 16 13:52:43 can I replace the entire OS with a self-build version should I want to? Feb 16 13:53:26 TMM: we run android and mer on it Feb 16 13:53:31 so, yes Feb 16 13:53:35 awesome Feb 16 13:53:41 hang on Feb 16 13:53:48 Stskeeps: how usable is android? Feb 16 13:54:00 Stskeeps: does phone work? 3G? Wifi? bluetooth? Feb 16 13:54:06 sound? Feb 16 13:54:14 Stskeeps: how is the wireless connectivity accessed? does the thing just have a CDMA modem internally? Feb 16 13:54:14 crashanddie_: dunno Feb 16 13:54:21 TMM: it's HSDPA, no CDMA Feb 16 13:54:38 TMM: don't expect to run a fully 'free' system on it and you should be fine. Feb 16 13:54:38 Stskeeps: what about mer? Feb 16 13:54:38 Stskeeps: I meant the extended set of hayes modem commands :P Feb 16 13:54:43 TMM: ISI Feb 16 13:54:57 crashanddie_: wifi works, bluetooth should work, but anything mer is kinda in shreds atm :) Feb 16 13:54:59 Stskeeps: do you need to run non-free software to access the 3G functionality? Feb 16 13:55:11 TMM: there's a ofono plugin Feb 16 13:55:13 Stskeeps: android on n900? available finally or only as YT videos? Feb 16 13:55:20 hrw: he postedp atches Feb 16 13:55:33 Stskeeps: awesome Feb 16 13:55:46 Stskeeps: well, what bits do I need that are non-free then? Feb 16 13:55:54 Stskeeps: still android 1.5/1.6 based only? Feb 16 13:56:06 i don't know but when i see somebody having problems with non-free software it makes me wanna kill somebody Feb 16 13:56:20 eep? Feb 16 13:56:23 TMM: feel free to browse my openness report, http://mer-project.blogspot.com/2010/02/mapping-openness-of-maemo-50-pr11-and.html Feb 16 13:56:48 jacekowski: well, that's a very positive outlook. I don't care what you do and don't run. I just don't use non-free software. I don't see how that would make you want to kill me Feb 16 13:57:07 because you are a fanatic Feb 16 13:57:15 and i don't like fanatics Feb 16 13:57:18 they are dangerous Feb 16 13:57:34 jacekowski: so you are fanatic too Feb 16 13:57:39 jacekowski: at what point did I say "You need to stop using non-free software?" I didn't Feb 16 13:57:48 sigh Feb 16 13:58:07 jacekowski: and if you don't want freedom from your soft and hardware, that is entirely fine by me. But I demand freedom. Feb 16 13:58:25 Erm, what are you two arguing about? #debian is over there ->> Feb 16 13:58:58 alterego: when someone says they want to kill me over anything, I tend to get a bit offended Feb 16 13:59:01 all that debian approach is bad for whole floss movement Feb 16 13:59:32 jacekowski: you are 15th? Feb 16 14:00:18 TMM: he's obviously a bit of an idiot, why can't you just ignore him? Feb 16 14:00:31 I mean seriously, he's not serious. Feb 16 14:01:26 And this isn't really isn't the place for fundamentalist FOSS philosophy. Feb 16 14:01:28 pupnik: that doesn't buy you anything other than not having 100Hz interrupts. - a little battery saving Feb 16 14:01:31 Stskeeps: I'm not entirely sure how to read those numbers. Say I basically want a Webbrowser and 3G. Can I have that without non-free bits? Feb 16 14:01:36 allllright. pr 1.1.1 update just popped up "Operation failed" and continued anyway. hmm.. Feb 16 14:01:43 TMM: no Feb 16 14:01:45 TMM: go see the components Feb 16 14:01:56 TMM: 3G is not going to happen without non-free Feb 16 14:02:24 Jaffa, no, it's just plain deb file. Session locked download of the deb, then installation through HAM as usual. Feb 16 14:02:35 TMM: unless you tether via bluetooth to a closed seperate handset ;) Feb 16 14:02:38 so, server protected download. Feb 16 14:02:46 konttori_work: Ah, interesting. Feb 16 14:02:47 alterego: I'm not asking these questions to discuss my philosophy, I just need to know these things before I can decide on a purchase :) Feb 16 14:02:57 konttori_work: Does that mean no auto-updates then? Feb 16 14:03:02 alterego: nah, bluetooth radio needs a propertiary firmware afair Feb 16 14:03:16 retoric question: a f***** changelog is available for PR 1.1.1 :D ??? Feb 16 14:03:24 TMM: there is no completly free phone Feb 16 14:03:36 TMM: even openmoko have binary drivers for radios Feb 16 14:03:55 jacekowski: nope. Feb 16 14:04:03 jacekowski: there is a seperate core for the GSM radio Feb 16 14:04:04 Andy80: yes, on wiki Feb 16 14:04:18 Yeah, cellular modems are very closed. You wont find a handset with an open one. Just look for a spec on any GSM readio. Feb 16 14:04:24 jacekowski: with its own firmware (not running linux) Feb 16 14:04:33 SpeedEvil: propertiary firmware Feb 16 14:04:38 Stskeeps: I'm not entirely sure on this : Telephony/GPRS <-- is that just the software component to interface with a hayes compatible component on the phone, or does it actually implement the driver for it. Feb 16 14:04:42 Stskeeps: can you link, please? Feb 16 14:04:54 Completely open-source user-editable-source cellular radios would actually be illegal to sell. Feb 16 14:05:08 TMM hayes is an illusion bought on by a driver that talks proprietary and exports that interface. Feb 16 14:05:19 alterego: there are phones where the 3G stack is abstracted behind a software layer running on a separate processor, and you can talk to it using free software. Feb 16 14:05:30 TMM: the phone module in the n900 is not an 'AT' modem - it has a driver which can make it act like this. Feb 16 14:05:39 thi... Feb 16 14:05:44 TMMwhat's the difference with that and talking to the nokia csd hayes interface? Feb 16 14:05:45 alterego: I realize that, but I'm ok with it running separately somewhere :P Feb 16 14:06:04 jacekowski: you will not find any phone at all not running nonproprietory firmware. Feb 16 14:06:13 TMM: but what's a difference Feb 16 14:06:13 jacekowski: and very, very, very few computers. Feb 16 14:06:18 alterego: at least the proprietary bits won't be a practical problem when mucking around with the software on the phone itself. Feb 16 14:06:30 SpeedEvil: i'm just wondering how big would be a market for completly free phone Feb 16 14:06:30 TMM: well, they're not with the N900, Feb 16 14:06:45 Andy80: http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_5/PR1.1.1 Feb 16 14:07:07 jacekowski: almost zero. Feb 16 14:07:13 alterego: so I don't need to run some special proprietary daemon on the phone that pins me to a specific libc or other shit like that? Feb 16 14:07:15 hooray, I've bricked my phone after the update. phone restarts after the boot video. Feb 16 14:07:27 luke-jr: i think i've found you a friend Feb 16 14:07:27 jacekowski: plus, it'd be illegal to sell in many countries. (if the user can edit the firmware of the modems) Feb 16 14:07:47 SpeedEvil: USRP + battery + making it little bit smaller Feb 16 14:08:02 TMM, well, how about a chroot? :P Feb 16 14:08:03 and sell it as fully open source phone Feb 16 14:08:10 alterego: I can for now live with having to upload a proprietary blob to some processor if I can then forget about it... some pragmatisy is required, sadly Feb 16 14:08:10 mhm Feb 16 14:08:11 jacekowski: And that would be illegal to sell in the UK. With actual jailtime. Feb 16 14:08:22 doubleukay: tried NSU? Feb 16 14:08:26 that still leaves propertiary hardware Feb 16 14:08:29 can /usr/share/fonts be moved to /opt or is that needed while booting? Feb 16 14:08:33 tybollt: not yet. reading how I can recover this. Feb 16 14:08:33 doubleukay: I'd say go for NSU mate Feb 16 14:08:38 alterego: well... do I need to, or not? :) Feb 16 14:08:45 SpeedEvil: you can transmit legally up to couple nanowatts legally Feb 16 14:09:01 jacekowski: Not functional for GSM. Feb 16 14:09:10 TMM, I think in this case, yes, I'll just check though ... Feb 16 14:09:23 tybollt: thanks.. guess I can kick myself for not backing up first :) Feb 16 14:09:50 doubleukay: if NSU works you'll still have all of /home and such left Feb 16 14:09:55 TMM: you know that hardware that n900 is using os propertiary Feb 16 14:09:57 doubleukay: hence - no need for backup Feb 16 14:10:01 tybollt: oh I would? great! Feb 16 14:10:01 TMM: and there is million patents on it Feb 16 14:10:03 jacekowski: also - the FM transmitters are - in most jurisdictions - specially legalised. An intentional unlicensed transmitter on GSM can't emit that much. Feb 16 14:10:06 doubleukay: ya Feb 16 14:10:44 doubleukay: just don't come after me w/ pitchfork and shovel when it doesn't work for you :P Feb 16 14:10:47 well, GSM can be implemented as FM radio Feb 16 14:10:55 900MHz fm radio Feb 16 14:10:56 I will try not to ;) Feb 16 14:11:01 jacekowski: no, it can't. Feb 16 14:11:06 jacekowski: GSM is not FM Feb 16 14:11:13 it's PSK Feb 16 14:11:29 jacekowski: and to be more clear - broadcast band FM transmitters are specially legalised. Other frequencies are not. Feb 16 14:11:31 and if you can alter frequencies quickly you could transmit PSK with FM Feb 16 14:12:09 so you would change frequency to 0.00001Hz for 1/4T of original frequency Feb 16 14:12:17 + the internal FM radio is (afaik by law) required to be reeeally low powered Feb 16 14:12:18 which would result in phase shift Feb 16 14:12:21 jacekowski: yes, however anyone that would claim you are in fact trasmitting FM as a result is an idiot. Feb 16 14:12:35 jacekowski: I know - and have actually implemented such as scheme. Feb 16 14:12:56 jacekowski: simulation only - but... Feb 16 14:13:33 TMM: you could try bugging Nokia for a static build of libisi and pnatd :) Feb 16 14:14:18 IIRC there have ben comments from nokia that they don't mind people running the binaries on the n900 under different OSs Feb 16 14:14:22 mhm Feb 16 14:14:26 GSM is FSK Feb 16 14:14:47 so it could be transmitted with FM Feb 16 14:15:17 it's CDMA that's PSK Feb 16 14:15:24 or maybe wifi is psk Feb 16 14:15:45 fundamentally, there is no reason you could not put it in a chroot. Feb 16 14:15:55 You can transmit any waveform with FM. Feb 16 14:16:05 This does not make the transmitted waveform FM. Feb 16 14:16:15 SpeedEvil: my point exactly, a seperate chroot with all the proprietary blobs in :P Feb 16 14:16:53 Anyone from Belgium? Feb 16 14:16:54 Or, port Linux to the DSP. (bahahaha) Feb 16 14:16:59 Much like you can draw any picture with an etch-a-sketch - this does not make the resulting picture of an etch-a-sketch Feb 16 14:17:51 SpeedEvil: GSM is FM Feb 16 14:18:15 it's GDSM Feb 16 14:18:31 oops. not #nethack Feb 16 14:21:03 "corpses of maemo and moblin line route" Feb 16 14:21:12 jacekowski: yes - and this is irrlevant - as I pointed out a while back - only FM broadcast band low-power-transmitters are legal in many places. - as intentional emitters. Any transmission in the GSM band is not in FM broadcast band, unless you're going really, really fast. Feb 16 14:21:20 thereg knows how to write headlines :) Feb 16 14:21:42 * SpeedEvil hits koivula with a wide-angle disintegration beam. Feb 16 14:22:40 hi Feb 16 14:22:44 has someone the url to the fixes in the latest update? Feb 16 14:23:21 I hope I'm right here *g* I have a minor problem with fbreader on the n900 I can't find a way to scroll with my fingers, anyone here who could help me? I feel pretty stupid right now and I don't find any solution on the web Feb 16 14:23:36 Justus: go into settings Feb 16 14:23:44 TriztFromWork: http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_5/PR1.1.1 Feb 16 14:23:56 Justus: you're looking for one on the righthandside of the settings tab list. Feb 16 14:24:07 SpeedEvil: Preferences -> Scrolling? Feb 16 14:24:08 it's called something like 'touch pressure' Feb 16 14:24:21 set both entries to about 5 Feb 16 14:24:27 Shapeshifter; thanks Feb 16 14:24:51 alterego: so, those are the proprietary bits then? libisi and pnatd are required for the 3g modem to function? Feb 16 14:25:12 look at ofono.. Feb 16 14:25:12 :P Feb 16 14:25:15 it has isimodem plugin Feb 16 14:25:53 basically if you want to make alternative OS for n900 then check oFono instead of maemo5 phone stack Feb 16 14:26:10 Stskeeps: I'm just not clear on what bits are and aren't free software... ofono itself is free software apparently... but that doesn't say much it seems Feb 16 14:26:16 Justus: no Feb 16 14:26:17 TMM, yes. libisi hasa closed API which pnatd uses, pnatd implements hayes to libisi functionality, I presume libisi talks to the hardware. Feb 16 14:26:30 Justus: press teh dot on the righthandside of the tabs to scroll all the way to 'maemo' Feb 16 14:26:49 Justus: minimal stylus pressure set to 0, max to 6 Feb 16 14:27:32 good lord! thank you so much SpeedEvil Feb 16 14:27:52 I was agitated to the point of shouting and screaming *sigh* Feb 16 14:28:13 Justus: you also want to go to 'indicator' - and disable scrolling - otherwise when you hit it you move randomly throughout the book Feb 16 14:28:27 Justus: you know the 'zoom' buttons also scroll? Feb 16 14:28:38 nope, now I do XD Feb 16 14:29:00 http://ofono.org/documentation <--- so.. that picture seems to suggest that 'isi' functionality is provided as GPL licensed bits... I'm completely confused now :P Feb 16 14:29:06 hmmm, my device is coming up with a weird BMC... initialization configuration filename Feb 16 14:29:23 TMM: it is, in ofono Feb 16 14:29:49 Stskeeps: ok, so with ofono, I don't need proprietary bits then? Feb 16 14:30:20 ok, found.... hidden within the bluetooth settings Feb 16 14:30:24 that gotta be moved Feb 16 14:30:39 Stskeeps: sorry if I seem to be going on circles, I'm just a tad confused about the workings of the n900 3g stack and how it interacts with maemo Feb 16 14:31:16 TMM: kernel interfaces are open and ofono has a open implementation Feb 16 14:31:46 TMM: There is the 3g modem. This runs its own OS - which you can't touch. There is then a kernel driver which is open, and talks to a userspace driver - which is closed. All userspace talks to this driver to get it to do phone stuff. Feb 16 14:32:24 ah, ok. That sounds acceptable. without the userspace driver that is. But ofono takes on that responsibility Feb 16 14:32:32 The modem also runs the GPS Feb 16 14:32:49 Does meego mean that maemo will not run on arm processors anymore??? Feb 16 14:33:00 wizkoder: no. Feb 16 14:33:02 wizkoder: read meego.com and then ask. Feb 16 14:33:19 Stskeeps, SpeedEvil: thanks a lot for clearing that up for me Feb 16 14:33:20 I am there. reading :-) Feb 16 14:33:22 Intel has infact sold ARM processors. Feb 16 14:33:32 (though they sold that division) Feb 16 14:34:09 Has anyone actually tried building ofono for the N900? Feb 16 14:34:13 Stskeeps: if you don't mind : Is the Xorg driver free software? Feb 16 14:34:37 Stskeeps: your report list a '3%' non-freeness Feb 16 14:34:45 Looks like it has. Feb 16 14:35:02 oo Feb 16 14:35:05 a maemo update... Feb 16 14:35:06 TMM: GLES drivers Feb 16 14:35:14 ow, I can live without those Feb 16 14:35:19 TMM, right now, you can use X with the framebuffer for OMAP, but the OpenGL ES driver is not open (yet) Feb 16 14:35:24 is there a changelog? Feb 16 14:35:25 Stskeeps: where is this awesome report? Feb 16 14:35:26 ok, again thank you bigtime SpeedEvil! :) Feb 16 14:35:31 Justus: np Feb 16 14:35:40 http://www.goldmansachs666.com/ Feb 16 14:35:41 lol Feb 16 14:35:41 Stskeeps: ow, I see you can click through the report. Sorry, I didn't realize that. My apologies Feb 16 14:35:55 SpeedEvil: http://mer-project.blogspot.com/2010/02/mapping-openness-of-maemo-50-pr11-and.html Feb 16 14:36:07 Thanks! Feb 16 14:36:19 please read through explanation and then jump to report Feb 16 14:36:21 Stskeeps: any brick prevention in the N900? :) Or is there a definite way to completely hose it? Feb 16 14:36:32 ok, have a nice est of day Feb 16 14:36:42 Stskeeps: awesome - thanks! Feb 16 14:36:45 TMM: don't toy with NOLO Feb 16 14:36:52 TMM: dropping it in the toilet. Feb 16 14:36:59 or overclock it Feb 16 14:37:07 ok, but if you keep the bootloader in tact, you can't brick it? Feb 16 14:37:25 and don't mess up CAL area either, i thin Feb 16 14:37:26 k Feb 16 14:37:31 but that's about it Feb 16 14:37:32 cal? Feb 16 14:37:33 Okay, found that question in the faq there. I am wondering why rpm was chosen? Isn't deb better? Feb 16 14:37:37 And the modem too ;) Feb 16 14:37:44 wizkoder: #meego Feb 16 14:37:47 Don't mess up your cellmo ;) Feb 16 14:37:59 wizkoder: no one knows, but that's just the way it is Feb 16 14:38:04 X-Fade: signed afaik, so difficult Feb 16 14:38:14 TMM: an area containing partition table and such for NAND Feb 16 14:38:24 Stskeeps: Yeah, but if you want a list, you need to add it :) Feb 16 14:38:27 I'd imagine it's because Intel wanted to contribute _something_ ^.^ Feb 16 14:38:27 well, alright then. I'm getting a N900 then, seems I can make it work the way I want it Feb 16 14:38:41 TMM: you're british right? Feb 16 14:38:47 Dutch Feb 16 14:38:56 Ah, my mistake. Feb 16 14:38:59 that's ok Feb 16 14:39:03 I was wondering if I knew you :P Feb 16 14:39:26 TMM: just promise us you'll look into the situation and what can be done constructively before complaining day in day out :P Feb 16 14:39:31 alterego: you might. I've been trudging around in these circles for a long time :) Feb 16 14:39:32 http://wiki.maemo.org/Why_the_closed_packages Feb 16 14:40:10 nooo... again that stupid link Feb 16 14:40:35 * slonopotamus never understood 'legacy' reason Feb 16 14:40:44 slonopotamus: i'm doing a revamp of that page soon anyway Feb 16 14:40:59 Stskeeps: ow... I need proprietary software for the battery? Feb 16 14:41:12 TMM: at the moment, yes. Feb 16 14:41:12 'we are abandoning this and don't want you to touch it ever too' Feb 16 14:41:15 TMM: sad, but so it is Feb 16 14:41:34 Someone needs to read the kernel driver and flip the right bit. Feb 16 14:41:41 I've glanced over it - it looks plausible Feb 16 14:41:49 Is ofono set for Harmattan? Feb 16 14:42:01 SpeedEvil: but who's to blame if you cause someone bodily harm by exploding battery? Feb 16 14:42:20 if you muck with the software, you get to keep all the pieces... it seems to me Feb 16 14:43:41 Stskeeps, bme argumentation doesn't work. Feb 16 14:43:44 I have insurance :) Feb 16 14:44:01 Does software hacks count as accidental? :) Feb 16 14:44:05 Stskeeps: the zeroth level of protection is inside the battery. The first is inside the PSU chip - the second is inside the kernel. Feb 16 14:44:07 People at #meego hate it if you ask why deb is not used ^^ Feb 16 14:44:27 wizkoder: I don't think you'll find anyone here that gives a crap either. Feb 16 14:44:28 wizkoder: yes, of course - it is the most common question Feb 16 14:44:54 Stskeeps: the BME thing - as far as I've read and understood the code so far has only covenience functions. It may also slightly increase the usable lifetime of the battery. Feb 16 14:45:10 the BME-userspace Feb 16 14:45:11 wizkoder: just read the site, that's the part from moblin. Feb 16 14:45:18 Stskeeps: Most open source programmers support debian. SO of course that is a question that will be raised all the time Feb 16 14:45:25 Stskeeps: so... to have a free system I'd need to get an X server on the thing, install/port ofono and use some minimal gui version of mozilla? Feb 16 14:45:36 tybollt: hiya, is there anything I have to do to get my phone recognized by NSU? I flashed my E51 before and it detected the USB NSU interface, but with the N900 it seems unable to. the USB NSU interface only detects after I switch the phone on and unlock it. Feb 16 14:45:38 TMM: somewhat yes Feb 16 14:45:47 but that's for a split second, after which the phone reboots.. Feb 16 14:46:35 Stskeeps: sounds to me some mucking about with GPE is in order then :) maemo seems to have a bit too many closed bits to 'clean up' easily Feb 16 14:47:27 TMM, not at all, all the maemo UI is open, check out Mer. Feb 16 14:48:13 <|R> dpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/cmt-firmware-rx51_8.2.2009.47-1.97+0m5_all.deb (--unpack): <- anyone is getting this? Feb 16 14:48:22 <|R> oh wait full rootfs ;) Feb 16 14:48:41 |R: Don't use apt-get Feb 16 14:48:42 I would never have bought the N900 if it was rpm... good thing Maemo 5 is Feb 16 14:48:48 <|R> X-Fade: why not? Feb 16 14:48:59 <|R> X-Fade: i couldn't even upgrade to PR1.1 without :/ Feb 16 14:48:59 |R: Because it doesn't do the things that AM does. Feb 16 14:49:08 hope the community can continue with Maemo 5.. and i will need to check mer Feb 16 14:49:08 <|R> like what? Feb 16 14:49:14 |R: And you will end up with a much larger rootfs. Feb 16 14:49:20 alterego: ow, shiny. Can I actually cobble together an image based on mer that would run on a N900? Feb 16 14:49:21 <|R> uhm Feb 16 14:49:24 alterego: the maemo UI contains closed-source UI elements. Feb 16 14:49:33 |R: Like moving the apt archive cache to the fat volume, thus not showing that error message :) Feb 16 14:49:48 <|R> javispedro: i can do it by hand :P Feb 16 14:49:51 not again flamewar about package managers.... they all suxx in one way or another Feb 16 14:50:03 TMM: possibly I wouldn't know,m but even if you can't it'd be nice if you helped out with that project :) Feb 16 14:50:03 |R: And set UBIFS compression to high. Feb 16 14:50:07 sandman, I bougt N900 even though it doesn't have rpm. get over it, it's only a stupid package manager Feb 16 14:50:17 <|R> ok Feb 16 14:50:21 tybollt: seem to be getting somewhere with the U button.. Feb 16 14:50:26 <|R> it's weird that it's not in the packages script... Feb 16 14:50:31 <|R> bad way to do it then IMHO Feb 16 14:50:39 wolf^: I will probably not get over it :( Feb 16 14:50:42 alterego: well, if it's goal is to have a completely free system then I don't see why I wouldn't spend some time to get it working to my level of satisfaction :) Feb 16 14:50:50 |R: apt-get is just not supported. Feb 16 14:51:07 |R: It works, but that is just a side effect :) Feb 16 14:51:36 <|R> cause last time i really had no choice :/ Feb 16 14:51:44 TMM: that is it's exact goal :) Feb 16 14:51:46 maybe ubuntu arm get it's big shot here Feb 16 14:52:01 * TriztFromWork shivers Feb 16 14:52:43 alterego: is there already a browser in Mer? Feb 16 14:53:30 TMMwell, you could use mobile firefox, or any number of browsers, I'm not sure of the state of microb Feb 16 14:53:30 <|R> damn now i have not enough space on target... Feb 16 14:53:51 <|R> damn /var/lib/dpkg :P Feb 16 14:54:29 * javispedro args to opensuse Feb 16 14:54:41 I managed to render it unbootable without even going to a shell Feb 16 14:54:51 alterego: well, if there's something I'd be ok with it. Ow, a mail client is rather important too :P Feb 16 14:54:52 just trying to right click on the updates available icon and updating... Feb 16 14:54:55 <|R> how much space does this update needs? Feb 16 14:55:12 then it said PackageKit was broken et voilà. Feb 16 14:55:23 TMM, mutt? :P Feb 16 14:55:31 * javispedro goes to fedoraproject.org ... Feb 16 14:55:36 Again, there's claws or something like that which will probably do the job. Feb 16 14:58:02 wb timeless_mbp Feb 16 14:59:12 alterego: ok, awesomeness :) I'm ordering a N900 then. I'll probably be here bugging you about how to muck about with the hardware ;) Feb 16 14:59:33 alterego, Stskeeps, SpeedEvil: Thanks a lot for your information and patience :) Feb 16 15:00:50 hmm.. Maemo 5 3.2010.02-8 .. application manager lists such a update Feb 16 15:03:01 oh, pr1.1.1? Feb 16 15:04:24 Maybe.. quite a lump it seems.. nothing on maemo.org Feb 16 15:04:43 tmo is getting crazy already Feb 16 15:04:54 hm... seems noone dumped the changes onto the wiki yet Feb 16 15:05:14 they are? Feb 16 15:05:26 TMM: best price I could find this week was dell Feb 16 15:05:48 <|R> uhm i fucked up hehe Feb 16 15:06:05 ordered mine yesterday afternoon. hasn't shipped yet. estimated delivery friday. Feb 16 15:06:17 but I live about 4 miles from their warehouse. Feb 16 15:06:26 evilrob: dell? Feb 16 15:06:31 javispedro: under Maemo_5/PR1.1.1 Feb 16 15:06:44 <|R> rebooted, updated, booted, little dots, then nothing... oops :) Feb 16 15:07:03 <|R> maybe i should have forced thos hildon initscripts over mp-something-002 afterall ;) Feb 16 15:07:13 yeah. dell. wouldn't think it, butthey have good prices on other tech stuff sometimes too Feb 16 15:07:25 ifreq: ta! Feb 16 15:07:44 forget it. price went up from yesterday Feb 16 15:07:52 hm, anyone seen any recent issues where the app manager seems to function perfectly fine, but is outputting "ignoring version from wrong domain" errors relating to gstreamer and gstreamer-tools every time it runs/updates/installs? Feb 16 15:08:02 bought mine from dell yesterday for 500. now it's 539 Feb 16 15:08:25 amazon has em for 529 still Feb 16 15:08:36 evilrob: what currency? Feb 16 15:08:41 USD Feb 16 15:08:51 evilrob: euro zone here :-/ much more expensive Feb 16 15:09:17 627 USD is the cheapest I can find it here Feb 16 15:09:18 * evilrob forgets this channel is much more international than most he's on Feb 16 15:09:37 euro zone has much stricter returns laws. that is part of the price. Feb 16 15:10:06 yes, I guess so Feb 16 15:10:45 the rest is the taxation on every stage of business Feb 16 15:11:16 well, I'll look around for a bit Feb 16 15:11:55 * pupnik imagines a smuggling ring :) Feb 16 15:12:53 well, I can just order it cheaper from the US Feb 16 15:13:06 I'd probably have to pay some extra duties, but no way it'll be that much Feb 16 15:13:23 I might be on a plane for Turin in the next few weeks. I should smuggle some over :) Feb 16 15:13:33 looks like I'll be able to save myself around 100 euros if I import it Feb 16 15:13:45 wazd. i really like what ya done to your theme coloring. easy for the eye :) Feb 16 15:14:24 I imported my N82 2 years ago. I still see myself swapping my sim to use that phone once in a while after I get the N900 even. Feb 16 15:14:50 hmm Feb 16 15:15:00 anyone know why the N900 rings so quiet? Feb 16 15:15:11 it's nearly unhearable outside ;o Feb 16 15:15:23 ifreq: glad to hear that :) Feb 16 15:15:29 where is the volume slider? Feb 16 15:16:07 Heh, rcadden is shutting down maemo-guru.com. Why does http://www.maemo-guru.com/2010/02/with-meego-i-go/ sound similar to http://www.maemo-guru.com/2008/08/tablet-guru-on-hiatus-until-further-notice/ Feb 16 15:16:38 all the way up Feb 16 15:16:41 "To be honest, the MeeGo name itself is awesome, from a marketing standpoint. It’s much more friendly and inviting than Maemo," iaaaaaaaaaargggggggh Feb 16 15:16:50 javispedro: no Feb 16 15:16:57 iaaaaaaaaaaaaargggggggggo Feb 16 15:17:03 :) Feb 16 15:17:13 maybe I'm just too used to the N95 8GB's speakers Feb 16 15:17:15 -.- Feb 16 15:17:57 I just love that "Meego, Meesaw, Meelost" Feb 16 15:18:04 "Let MeeGo!" Feb 16 15:18:14 haha Feb 16 15:18:25 Jaffa: meego-guru.com! Feb 16 15:18:36 this name is too fun. Feb 16 15:18:38 RST38h: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mi-go Feb 16 15:19:04 youtube.com is already of meego videos Feb 16 15:19:11 RST38h: confess, it was your idea to call it MeeGo :D Feb 16 15:19:14 * vmlemon_ wonders if it'll have satellite navigation functionality Feb 16 15:19:33 MeeGoNowhere Feb 16 15:19:59 Will it have a "MeeGoHome" button, should you get lost? Feb 16 15:20:01 MeeGo 2 Amsterdam Feb 16 15:20:21 MeeGoHazCheesburger :D Feb 16 15:20:26 Sounds like something a Furby would say Feb 16 15:20:27 * Arif wants a MeeWent button as a call log Feb 16 15:20:32 MeeIs in Amsterdam Feb 16 15:20:32 vmlemon_++, lol Feb 16 15:20:38 ow what that doesn't fit lol :) Feb 16 15:20:43 s/what/wait/ Feb 16 15:20:43 trbs meant: ow wait that doesn't fit lol :) Feb 16 15:20:47 why do you want to go to hamsterdam Feb 16 15:20:48 o.o Feb 16 15:20:49 can anyone help me get gcc working on my N900? I'm a bit confused by the repo setup Feb 16 15:20:56 "MeeGo, MeeHongry Furby" Feb 16 15:20:57 At least it'll be more difficult to whine about it.. "MeeGo sucks!" Feb 16 15:22:00 jsa_, it should have been just "Mee" to fully complicate whining :) Feb 16 15:22:22 this reminds me of the Wii... Feb 16 15:22:36 * vmlemon_ waits for the MEEEPC Feb 16 15:24:11 MeeGoWiiSuck Feb 16 15:24:31 javispedro: eew :D Feb 16 15:26:03 * javispedro has mistyped meego numerous types already. first #meebo, now #megod Feb 16 15:26:39 yeah, meebo is really frustrating similarity Feb 16 15:26:55 meebo, meego, meefo, meedo Feb 16 15:28:40 javispedro, one nice thing about "MeeGoWii" can come true if someone ports it to this specialized hardware ;) Feb 16 15:29:00 * javispedro is reminded of the Mergotchi... hm... MeeGotchi :) Feb 16 15:29:05 Argh, now I can imagine parrots squawking it Feb 16 15:29:12 What have you folks done? Feb 16 15:29:40 hey, w/ sensors + tv out we have a megowii already Feb 16 15:29:48 andre__: time for "Licensing" product? Feb 16 15:29:58 MeeGo, Yugo, WiiGo! Feb 16 15:30:00 weebaboo-derpderp Feb 16 15:30:03 :)) Feb 16 15:30:17 Stskeeps: Yes Sir! Roger Sir! Awaiting further instructions, Sir! ;-) Feb 16 15:30:17 metoo Feb 16 15:30:39 andre__: sorry, that came out wrong :) Feb 16 15:30:55 In keeping with the Nintendo theme, I guess that MiiGo also works Feb 16 15:30:55 andre__: what info do you need from me? Feb 16 15:30:57 haha, not at all. I'm just trying to fool you :-P Feb 16 15:31:11 hmm, classification would be cool Feb 16 15:31:36 heh Feb 16 15:31:42 bugzilla tells me my file's too big :D Feb 16 15:31:57 andre__: actually, it might be a benefit to hide this product a bit as to have a entry from somewhere else Feb 16 15:32:13 so i would be pointing to enter.cgi?product=Licensing Feb 16 15:32:28 so, think i'd be shot for putting it under Official Platform? Feb 16 15:32:30 Arif, there's a limit, yeah Feb 16 15:32:52 Would it be a problem if I put it on rapidshare? Feb 16 15:32:57 Arif, what exactly? Feb 16 15:33:11 A crash report Feb 16 15:33:13 Stskeeps, description? Feb 16 15:33:26 Arif, a crash report is not 2MB big :) maybe a coredump though, or an attachment... Feb 16 15:33:30 andre__: For licensing change requests Feb 16 15:33:58 Stskeeps, okay, but I think we should already put a warning there, like "no me too, elaborate and give good points" Feb 16 15:34:11 and please read or something Feb 16 15:34:28 andre__, that could be it too.. :) do you think it's neccessary for this bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9020 to upload a report from the new fw or not? Feb 16 15:34:29 Bug 9020: Media player crashes when trying to search in ''All songs'' Feb 16 15:34:42 Arif, ah, that's you :) Feb 16 15:34:54 yes :) Feb 16 15:35:06 Arif: can you send it by private email to me? aklapper at openismus Feb 16 15:35:07 dot com Feb 16 15:35:14 sure Feb 16 15:35:27 andre__: so Licensing change requests, please read for instructions Feb 16 15:35:34 Stskeeps, yeah Feb 16 15:37:16 Stskeeps, Done Feb 16 15:38:26 andre__: thanks Feb 16 15:39:00 Stskeeps, but is this just for requests? Feb 16 15:39:20 or also for bugs, e.g. conflicts between different licenses stated in two files Feb 16 15:40:51 andre__: mm. i'm not sure if that should be covered in this or not since it is a bug against specific components Feb 16 15:41:39 Stskeeps, so maybe I should rename "Licensing" then :-D Feb 16 15:41:47 Licensing requests is fine Feb 16 15:41:51 or licensing change requests Feb 16 15:41:53 yeah, probably better Feb 16 15:42:29 Stskeeps, I'll do that later and also move all tickets there that can be applied, got to have a coffee now first with a friend. priorities, you know ;-)) Feb 16 15:42:36 sounds good, no rush Feb 16 15:42:38 have a good cofee Feb 16 15:43:38 why is chmod +x not doing anything!?! Feb 16 15:43:50 you're doing it wrong Feb 16 15:44:19 # ls -l kbdd Feb 16 15:44:20 -rw-r--r-- 1 user root 27420 Jun 3 2007 kbdd Feb 16 15:44:26 SystemParadox: is it on a fat fs? Feb 16 15:44:29 chmod +x kbdd Feb 16 15:44:29 MyDocs = FAT filesystem, noexec. Feb 16 15:44:31 -rw-r--r-- 1 user root 27420 Jun 3 2007 kbdd Feb 16 15:44:48 javispedro, oh Feb 16 15:44:51 so it is Feb 16 15:44:59 I saw ext3 for /home/user Feb 16 15:45:28 why is the documents in .documents anyway? And why is there a "Mac OS" folder? Feb 16 15:47:24 mac users are special Feb 16 15:48:15 don't be politically correct Feb 16 15:48:34 thresh: before you say anything, wait until all mac users on this room leave ;) Feb 16 15:48:49 oi! Feb 16 15:49:00 * mashiara is an unique snowflake Feb 16 15:49:03 That's for the Classic Mac OS users Feb 16 15:49:05 :) Feb 16 15:49:05 javispedro: i'm a macos user myself :-( Feb 16 15:49:06 Oh watch out now ;) Feb 16 15:49:11 The next version will support Mac OS X ;) Feb 16 15:49:11 ok nope that didn't work. I've still gotta compile this for the right kernel version Feb 16 15:49:47 I really don't understand why the build tools are in with the unstable packages Feb 16 15:50:08 SystemParadox: they're not with the unstable packages, but within the sdk/tools repos Feb 16 15:50:24 * mashiara wonders why the 20100303 kernel source package control file does not list kernel-flasher Feb 16 15:50:30 sdk/tools? Feb 16 15:50:45 I've seen freemantle/sdk Feb 16 15:50:47 mashiara: someone misunderstanding a bug? Feb 16 15:51:07 but everyone says that pulls in all the testing packages too, which I don't want Feb 16 15:51:39 well the old control file *was* excessive... Feb 16 15:51:40 SystemParadox: may I suggest a chroot. Chances of trashing the base system are lesser. Feb 16 15:52:04 alterego: is there a free equivalent to the 'flasher' tool? Or do you also need that with mer? Feb 16 15:52:30 TMM, no I don't think there is. Feb 16 15:52:32 that sounds like unnecessary compilication to me. The build tools must be stable, so why aren't they in stable repos? Feb 16 15:52:47 TMM, but once you're installed you can come up with your own bootstrapping facility I'm sure. Feb 16 15:53:12 alterego: so, it will only be needed once? Feb 16 15:53:23 TMM depends how many times you want to flash it. Feb 16 15:53:50 alterego: well... what parts need to be flashed? Just the kernel I suppose? Feb 16 15:53:58 kernel, root filesystem Feb 16 15:54:04 That should be it. Feb 16 15:54:07 alterego: ah, the rootfs also lives in a special place? Feb 16 15:54:21 Not realy speciial, but the flasher is useful for doing that. Feb 16 15:54:36 I'd probably boot off of MicroSD and just flash the kernel. Feb 16 15:54:39 th Feb 16 15:54:50 ok, but I could just copy over a new root fs on a file-by-file basis rather than flash it? Feb 16 15:54:56 javispedro, are there instructions for a chroot somewhere? Feb 16 15:54:57 Sure, Feb 16 15:55:21 well, I'll be fine then Feb 16 15:55:29 SystemParadox: they are, but lost in talk.maemo.org. If you want you can install any Debian version. Feb 16 15:55:42 (thus follow usual debian foreign chroot instructions) Feb 16 15:55:48 wait hold on Feb 16 15:55:59 is this going to require me install a whole debian system? Feb 16 15:56:20 * RST38h moos at javispedro with no apparent purpose Feb 16 15:56:44 SystemParadox: a bare debian debootstrap isn't too large Feb 16 15:56:50 * VDVsx moos at RST38h :) Feb 16 15:56:52 SystemParadox: yes, which is something that is missing on your N900 currently. Feb 16 15:56:58 lol Feb 16 15:57:06 * RST38h feels like moving whatever little UI he has to Harmattan framework right away =) Feb 16 15:57:06 moo RST38h Feb 16 15:57:09 I would probably have installed it anyway Feb 16 15:57:14 Heya VDVsx, javis Feb 16 15:57:19 RST38h: looks pretty similar to Fremantle GUI... Feb 16 15:57:33 javispedro: But also looks like moblin in a way Feb 16 15:57:33 I wonder what happened to the "all applications were desktop gadgets concept" Feb 16 15:58:24 RST38h: anything interesting with this Maemo 6 UI FW? Feb 16 15:59:02 ""Maemo 6" will not be used by Nokia as a brand since all the marketing effort around the software platform will be around MeeGo." heh Feb 16 15:59:06 so Maemo is RIP indeed. Feb 16 15:59:42 is the update they pushed out today for the n900 solid/stable? Feb 16 16:00:07 Harmattan framework looks fsckin fast Feb 16 16:00:17 maemo is a better name :( Feb 16 16:00:47 Moo is a bit cowlike, yes. Feb 16 16:00:49 but he's confirming my yesterday's intuition that it would be still the hartmattan we know, only renamed. Feb 16 16:00:50 me mooh }:> Feb 16 16:00:51 meego really sounds like some lolcat quote :) Feb 16 16:00:53 oops, Mee Feb 16 16:01:12 Cowlike still, at least pronounced the Finnish way Feb 16 16:01:25 maego would have been better Feb 16 16:01:53 what's the biggest microSD card you can get now? Feb 16 16:02:01 32gb Feb 16 16:02:16 thank god they haven came up with maeblin :D Feb 16 16:02:17 but officalls only 16gb is supported on the n900 Feb 16 16:02:46 (with the disclamer that not all cards my work) Feb 16 16:02:56 i bet some 32gb cards will work too Feb 16 16:03:10 meego.... reminds me a bit of that game "world of goo" *ponders* if maemo-6 will have soft, mold-able goo interface :P Feb 16 16:03:34 maeblin sounds better! Feb 16 16:03:39 trbs: that would be too awesome for 2 boring mega-companies Feb 16 16:03:50 javispedro: beleive me, not in russian :D Feb 16 16:04:16 loving how my exchange spamfilter sends most of the meego-dev posts to spam Feb 16 16:05:10 frals: currently I have a freaking load of messages form meego dev Feb 16 16:05:13 frals, I here a lot of gmail accounts are doing the same thing .... Feb 16 16:05:20 frals, kidding :P Feb 16 16:05:42 linux in nokia....the best !!!!Great Feb 16 16:06:37 DA!! Feb 16 16:07:38 wazd: Well, it is the same concept as Fremantle (dialogs popping up from the bottom), uses gray/orange theme, top bar looks like moblin Feb 16 16:07:49 wazd: http://www.flickr.com/photos/andreagrandi/sets/72157623318994953/detail/ Feb 16 16:07:57 Maeblin actually sounds cool =) Feb 16 16:08:05 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3TdoY868kc looks ugly Feb 16 16:08:12 RST38h: yeah i already joked about it yesterday Feb 16 16:09:31 thresh: if that's a reference theme, i'm sure there's reason for Mer :P Feb 16 16:09:34 my god, that's ugly.. Feb 16 16:09:34 :P Feb 16 16:09:35 RST38h: yeah, let's have a "oh my god I don't beleive they really nemed it like that" brands era :D Feb 16 16:09:42 RST38h: iPad, maeblin :) Feb 16 16:09:52 i proposed a 'maemo, blin' Feb 16 16:09:52 thresh, wazd: Eblin. Just Eblin. Feb 16 16:09:58 lack of uk firmware update is getting old :'( Feb 16 16:10:09 is there some way to configure if a script should be run when a specific wlan connection is made? (I need vpnc to be run when connecting to this AP here) Feb 16 16:10:13 Ok, Ma eblin. Feb 16 16:10:13 nid0: that's what you get for living in advanced country Feb 16 16:10:54 Stskeeps: remember my words that I can't outperform the whole floor of nokia/intel designers? Feb 16 16:11:05 wazd: i think you can, judging by these themes Feb 16 16:11:05 :P Feb 16 16:11:10 wazd: You probably can Feb 16 16:11:11 Stskeeps: forget it :D Feb 16 16:11:26 wazd: started looking at QML yet btw? Feb 16 16:11:31 :D Feb 16 16:11:32 wazd: IQ of the crowd = IQ of its stupidiest participant / crowd size Feb 16 16:11:32 Hello. I can't install maemo sdk on my Fedora 12 as per the instructions mentioned in the post http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=34924 Feb 16 16:11:57 Hi, im trying to update to newest update. It says not enough memory. What should i do? Feb 16 16:11:57 Stskeeps: actually yes Feb 16 16:12:04 * RST38h works on his capitalization: Me eBlin would probably be the perfect fit Feb 16 16:12:12 s/Me/Ma Feb 16 16:12:56 Mah Meh Feb 16 16:13:00 Oh, and i got maemo 5, N900 Feb 16 16:13:10 wazd: cool Feb 16 16:13:12 but seriously, that's what they came up after, like, 3 years of work? Feb 16 16:13:35 * javispedro doesn't dislike the harmattan theme much Feb 16 16:13:43 since they've started to develop Harmattan right after n810 release Feb 16 16:13:53 wazd: Well, they scratch their work and start from scratch every 6-12 months Feb 16 16:14:01 wazd: That is just an sdk theme of course. Feb 16 16:14:18 X-Fade: Previous SDK theme (Maemo5) ended up not that far from the final Feb 16 16:14:22 X-Fade: I'm not about theming, it's temporary ofcourse Feb 16 16:14:31 X-Fade: I'm about overall :) Feb 16 16:14:36 X-Fade: So, no reason to believe this one will be that far off Feb 16 16:14:39 RST38h: This is not even the alpha sdk. Feb 16 16:14:46 notificacions actually look like a step down :) Feb 16 16:14:53 *notifications. Feb 16 16:15:05 javispedro: They look like MS Phone7 stuff =) Feb 16 16:15:14 RST38h: true :) Feb 16 16:15:23 Looks like Qt desktop stuff to me. Feb 16 16:15:28 javis: Aka "I can't draw frames" Feb 16 16:15:43 RST38h: but you should be happy, looks like you can use an image for the backgrounds right now :) Feb 16 16:15:49 the home icon and background image, specially. I think I even saw those already on some other Qt project Feb 16 16:15:52 iPeter-: http://wiki.maemo.org/Free_up_rootfs_space Feb 16 16:15:53 X-Fade^^ Feb 16 16:16:27 javispedro: 'epic user experience' Feb 16 16:16:46 I have to wonder how they do the title bar transparency with X11... oh noes they moved to Qt-FB! >:) Feb 16 16:17:23 * javispedro fears it will be just a clutter bar overimposed the xwindows and thus app devs will have to take care that each windows' top 60px will be unusable Feb 16 16:17:39 RST38h: seen my link bout Mi-Go? Feb 16 16:18:14 The Mi-go are large, pinkish, fungoid, crustacean-like entities the size of a man with a "convoluted ellipsoid" composed of pyramided, fleshy rings and covered in antennae where a head would normally be. Feb 16 16:18:32 WAZD: url? Feb 16 16:18:40 RST38h: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mi-go Feb 16 16:19:03 RST38h: I thought you should know them since you're worshipping The Tentacled One :D Feb 16 16:19:49 wazd: Yea, that looks like something Intel has created Feb 16 16:19:59 http://lolthulhu.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/mikemystery-migo.jpg :D Feb 16 16:20:03 omg :D Feb 16 16:20:21 wazd: Very familiar Feb 16 16:22:16 How to paste on nano in xterm Feb 16 16:23:05 menu-paste Feb 16 16:23:22 Yup, found. Feb 16 16:23:47 ===> home Feb 16 16:27:40 any hints on my question of executing scripts when connecting to a wlan AP? Feb 16 16:27:58 anyone know where the release notes for pr1.1.1 are? Feb 16 16:31:04 how do i add my personal rep? Feb 16 16:31:25 i just added url of it but it adds wierd stuff to it Feb 16 16:33:13 jeeez Feb 16 16:33:31 I just encountered a result of Mighty Soviet Designers! Feb 16 16:33:36 and failed :D Feb 16 16:33:56 Due to the latest Meego discussions i have been looking around little. I think the merge with intel is good... though little dissapointed in some of the decisions. Though it is rough and not finnished have someone tryed this? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/Thumb2 Feb 16 16:34:20 sandman: ubuntu's having a lot of trouble with thumb Feb 16 16:34:20 2 Feb 16 16:34:41 Stskeeps: yeah i know... saw the bugs Feb 16 16:35:01 the problem is they deprecated the n900 way too fast with this announcement Feb 16 16:35:14 ohh.. could it be possible to phone in CLI? Feb 16 16:35:37 uhsf: yeah Feb 16 16:35:49 they should have waited a few months when meego was more ready Feb 16 16:36:17 now they just killed many n900 sales Feb 16 16:36:19 yeah.. they made a vacum for the N900 now Feb 16 16:36:32 oh, my god. Feb 16 16:36:41 a maemo fansite started their own repo. Feb 16 16:36:48 what!! Feb 16 16:36:52 give mee Feb 16 16:37:11 javispedro: :| which one? Feb 16 16:38:14 I wan't to find the best .deb solution for my phone Feb 16 16:38:41 what is vacum Feb 16 16:38:52 javispedro: do you have a link? Feb 16 16:39:16 sandman: yes, though I'm not sure why you want it. Feb 16 16:39:29 usb networking was all set up but suddenly i get ssh: connect to host 192.168.2.15 port 22: Connection refused. what could be wrong? Feb 16 16:39:40 frals: spanish one. theoretically, they're going to ship "translations". Feb 16 16:39:55 tell em to go to maemo.org instead :< Feb 16 16:40:00 i still can ping the device Feb 16 16:40:03 I've told them numerous times. Feb 16 16:40:12 So they called me "unhelpful" and seems made their way either way Feb 16 16:40:26 so, has anyone else trie vpngui? It seems like I can only enter a numeric password >.> Feb 16 16:40:29 damn, looks like I caught that epic e63 bluetooth bug :( Feb 16 16:40:31 but no alpha Feb 16 16:41:08 sup with Maemo update? Feb 16 16:41:13 changelog somewhere? Feb 16 16:41:20 would be nice Feb 16 16:41:28 on the wiki there is some Feb 16 16:41:33 /PR1.1.1 or smth Feb 16 16:41:34 javispedro: for me the N900 is a computer... If there is a new repo i like to know Feb 16 16:42:18 Maemo 5 PR1.1 is being released on January 14, 2010 Feb 16 16:42:21 thats an older update Feb 16 16:42:27 sandman: there shouldn't be any more repos. this "gotta catch em all" behavior is nonsense. Feb 16 16:42:41 this is some 16.2MB Feb 16 16:42:46 Is there any msn client / plugin what allows connections to msn from many computers? Feb 16 16:43:47 iPeter-: google is the answer, off topic here :P Feb 16 16:44:14 Can i uninstall Mozilla runtime if i uninstalled Firefox? Feb 16 16:44:28 Andy80: I just found some info of vacuum Feb 16 16:44:31 javispedro: yeah, you are right. It is better to have one big. My dream would be to use Ubuntu on my phone though with phone capabilities Feb 16 16:44:51 Hmmm, Feb 16 16:44:57 what's the thing with the meemo? Feb 16 16:45:01 meego Feb 16 16:45:02 i mean Feb 16 16:45:17 also, they're doing translations the ugly way. by "binary" editing packages of interpreted applications Feb 16 16:45:27 red: the 1.1.1 changelog is where frals said it is Feb 16 16:46:27 red: http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_5/PR1.1.1 Feb 16 16:47:13 ty frals Feb 16 16:47:24 for some reaosn when I tried to add .1 in the last it showed the old update Feb 16 16:47:28 got me confused :) Feb 16 16:47:36 matthew: I think the merge is right in the longrun but that rpm might make me not use it. (I swapped OS on desktop cause of rpm) Feb 16 16:47:57 sandman: What you mean, they're moving to RPM packs? Feb 16 16:47:57 :o Feb 16 16:48:01 well Feb 16 16:48:02 yes Feb 16 16:48:07 harmattan is going to use .deb Feb 16 16:48:14 I mean, is maemo over? Feb 16 16:48:21 frals: that is goood!! Feb 16 16:48:30 matthew-: yes, maemo is dead. see topic image :) Feb 16 16:49:08 that's just stupid. Feb 16 16:49:18 matthew: yes Feb 16 16:49:31 I bought my device as it was a maemo one. Feb 16 16:49:43 matthew: yeah, me too Feb 16 16:49:45 and meego sounds shit. Feb 16 16:49:50 and it still is a maemo one. Feb 16 16:50:00 but with rpm Feb 16 16:50:19 Ok, let me ask differently, what are the major changes? Feb 16 16:50:23 (and meego logo sucks) Feb 16 16:50:47 i will need to think deeply next device i buy.. where i go. Feb 16 16:51:27 maemo as brand is dead. maemo 6 will continue to be released as usual, only marketing will rename it to "meego" (but it will be meego in name mostly). after harmattan, maemo as distro disappears and is replaced by moblin + qt gui. that's the plan, basically. Feb 16 16:52:14 Why isn't it updated on nokia's website? Feb 16 16:52:15 http://maemo.nokia.com/n900/ Feb 16 16:52:28 because thats the n900 page Feb 16 16:52:31 which runs maemo Feb 16 16:52:33 not meego Feb 16 16:52:54 but wait, will the n900 run meego now? Feb 16 16:53:04 possible/dont know/unlikely Feb 16 16:53:04 Hrmpf. Feb 16 16:53:10 there is no meego yet Feb 16 16:53:24 program manager tells me that I don't have enough space for the firmware update. Feb 16 16:53:32 nid0: well if it wont, it will just fuck up the roadmap of the device. Feb 16 16:53:37 32.6MB free on / Feb 16 16:53:42 That's idiotic. Feb 16 16:53:53 Why isn't /var/lib/dpkg somewhere outside of rootfs? Feb 16 16:54:08 it wont alter the roadmap any more than it was yesterday, as there basically wasnt one and still isnt, at least not publicly Feb 16 16:54:33 range: disabling -devel and -testing should free up enough space Feb 16 16:55:32 The only enabled ones are "Nokia", "Nokia Updates" and "maemo.org" (not sure how the first two are called on an english device) Feb 16 16:55:33 I think i'll write a strongly worded letter to Nokia. Feb 16 16:55:37 I had pokerth taking too much space from rootfs Feb 16 16:56:10 both most space needing libraries are maemo os dependant Feb 16 16:56:31 another was 16 MB and can't remember the other one but already 16 MB is pretty much from 228 MB Feb 16 16:56:38 I have /var/lib/dpkg being around 32MB large. Feb 16 16:57:05 That's state stuff which does not really be on rootfs for performance reasons. Or does it? Feb 16 16:57:25 *need to be Feb 16 16:57:35 you need about 41Mb to update Feb 16 16:57:52 But where should I take that from? Feb 16 16:57:52 Is it possible to have google chrome on maemo 5? ^^, Feb 16 16:58:09 disable -devel and -testing and any other 3rd party repos Feb 16 16:58:13 greenfly: I have. Feb 16 16:58:21 if you hack around with apt-get, remove any debs from /var/cache/apt/archives Feb 16 16:58:22 There's only the two Nokia repos and maemo.org Feb 16 16:58:24 why the flash has to be only 256 MB at the first place? I say it's pretty short-sighted Feb 16 16:58:29 I noticed abiword took up a huge amount of space by itself Feb 16 16:58:48 greenfly: I don't. I just install software via the app manager (okay, I have some testing stuff and devel stuff on there). Feb 16 16:58:56 greenfly: yes, abiword did the trick for me Feb 16 16:59:00 Scelt: see the billion faqs on the file system layout for the n900. short story: very fast flash like that is expensive Feb 16 16:59:04 because any bigger than 256 would be very akward + hugely expensive Feb 16 16:59:50 the first 512mb chips were only released at the beginning of 2009 (when the n900's hardware was probably already about finalised) and cost assloads Feb 16 16:59:51 Yes, but I don't see why /var/lib would need to be on rootfs. Feb 16 17:00:06 range: also, if you are a fan of trying out themes, either uninstall or move ones from /usr/share/themes/ that you don't use Feb 16 17:00:08 greenfly: I know that fact but it seems to be a bad compromise. I have been using n900 only for like 2 weeks and already got into problems because of rootfs space. doesn't that tell it Feb 16 17:00:14 Stuff which is accessed often in /lib or /bin or /sbin - yes ... Feb 16 17:00:18 Hmmm Feb 16 17:00:24 greenfly: Don't tell me they live on rootfs too? Feb 16 17:00:25 Scelt: do you use extras-devel? Feb 16 17:00:29 Okay, let me see. Feb 16 17:00:33 range: /usr/share/themes/ does Feb 16 17:00:38 * wazd swears like Jules Winnfield cause lookslike he needs to reflash his e63 :( Feb 16 17:01:02 range: so run a du -sh * in /usr/share/themes and see just how many of those tie up space Feb 16 17:01:17 greenfly: yes, I do but you can't blame all on that Feb 16 17:01:22 and since it's primarily taken up with compressed images, you don't get much benefit if any from the filesystem compression Feb 16 17:01:34 Scelt: sure you can, as it's basically the reason. Feb 16 17:01:43 Scelt: why not? most apps have to optify themselves appropriately before they are moved up to extras proper Feb 16 17:01:58 in fact, that's one of the big reasons some apps are probably still in -devel Feb 16 17:02:30 if you want to play in -devel, then don't complain Feb 16 17:02:35 if you want to complain, then don't play in -devel Feb 16 17:03:35 be happy with the fact that you own a device that allows you to hack around with it even if you don't know what you are doing Feb 16 17:03:45 nid0 and greenfly: damn guys. just admit that the 256 MB is living on the edge. even you used only official repos etc. you don't have like 90 % free, or most likely not even 60 %. it already tells that the 256 MB flash is excepting troubles for itself Feb 16 17:04:13 so what dyou want them to do about it, retrofit the device with a bigger flash chip at your expense? Feb 16 17:04:20 or move stuff onto the ssd and have it run dog-slow? Feb 16 17:04:30 Use the internal 32G storage .. Feb 16 17:04:32 Scelt: I'd rather have the super-fast storage for the OS *shrug* Feb 16 17:04:45 instead of the slow 32g bulk storage Feb 16 17:05:05 if they used the 32gb slow storage you'd be complaining about boot times instead of about root free space Feb 16 17:05:27 right now you are complaining because you want the very latest update that just came out, just because the version numbers are higher Feb 16 17:05:38 btw, how much slower is the 32gb storage? Feb 16 17:05:42 but you screwed yourself up by playing around with development packages and filling up your / Feb 16 17:05:49 nid0: Na, but move things around a bit. One of the largest consumers on my rootfs is (as stated) /var/lib/dpkg. Feb 16 17:05:50 "Maemo 6 is still coming out… And I believe the plan is to keep it alive into V7 and beyond." Feb 16 17:05:51 see, I filled up my / and wasn't able to update either Feb 16 17:05:52 who said that! Feb 16 17:05:55 and is it true!? Feb 16 17:05:58 but I was able to figure out how to free up space Feb 16 17:05:59 I don't see why that has to live there? Feb 16 17:06:08 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=529975 Feb 16 17:06:08 and I didn't complain, because that was the price I paid to use devel Feb 16 17:06:22 usb networking was all set up but suddenly i get ssh: connect to host 192.168.2.15 port 22: Connection refused. what could be wrong? Feb 16 17:06:27 i can still ping the device Feb 16 17:06:47 You can ping the device? Hahah Feb 16 17:06:57 My device doesn't respond to pings .. So .... Feb 16 17:07:16 greenfly: I know and I solved myself the same space issues but still I'm concerned about the device's possibilities Feb 16 17:07:34 Scelt: it's possibilities are the exact reason you were able to fill up your / to begin with Feb 16 17:07:43 Scelt: that's a bit of a pampered attitude. Feb 16 17:07:43 its even Feb 16 17:07:56 if you want your phone to protect you from yourself, get an iPhone Feb 16 17:08:08 if you want to hack around, stick w/ the n900 Feb 16 17:08:23 then again, you'd probably jailbreak your iPhone and complain when something didn't work Feb 16 17:09:05 is there a list somewhere of killer-apps? a must-have list? I've just started browsing the downloads at maemo.org Feb 16 17:09:10 my / was filled up mostly from debs from my adventures with command-line apt-get, a spare theme or two, and big non-optified -devel apps like abiword Feb 16 17:09:22 all things that took me maybe 10 minutes to fix Feb 16 17:09:25 *shrug* Feb 16 17:09:52 personally speaking you guys with no space dont get to complain anyway, the update isnt even available to uk devices yet :< Feb 16 17:10:13 Maemo 6... will it still exist? Feb 16 17:10:19 yes Feb 16 17:10:23 maemo 7? Feb 16 17:10:26 I constantly get not enough space for the new FW bugfix release 3.2010.02-8 Feb 16 17:10:34 How much space do I need? Feb 16 17:10:35 crystal ball doesnt go that far Feb 16 17:10:46 maemo 6 still being .deb based? Feb 16 17:10:48 rdorsch 42mb needed Feb 16 17:10:52 ^^^ Feb 16 17:10:58 i.e. still maemo Feb 16 17:11:02 40MB seemed to work for me... I got it by disabling extras-testing Feb 16 17:11:19 greenfly: nah. don't take me wrong. It's just odd that the flash is so small. Maybe cause of the price or maybe something else but still it's small and causing troubles. Maybe I'm one of the reasons in the problem but so is the small flash. to be honest, I'm a bit worried the whole meego bullshit going on right now and will it work with n900 etc. Feb 16 17:11:25 or maybe it was more like 41.5MB Feb 16 17:11:32 Scelt: it's exactly because of the price Feb 16 17:11:43 Scelt: it's "so small" because it's the biggest that was available when the n900 hardware was decided Feb 16 17:11:49 nid0: and how do you know for sure maemo 6 will come out as well as meego - instead of just meego? Feb 16 17:12:00 until the beginning of 2009 it was physically impossible to get larger than 256mb nand chips Feb 16 17:12:07 do you really think they'd go to the trouble of splitting up the OS across multiple storage if the 32Gb storage was just as fast? Feb 16 17:12:08 nid0: thanks, 7mb to go.... Feb 16 17:12:12 and when 512mb chips were released they were hugely expensive, and still are Feb 16 17:13:13 nid0: not really Feb 16 17:13:19 they could've go with numonyx Feb 16 17:14:10 nid0: ye, got it. but it doesn't take the problem away even the reason is very logical and good. maybe they should have waited before the launc of n900, maybe they should have done something differently, don't know. just hoping that flash of 256 MB doesn't make n900 meego-incompatible Feb 16 17:15:08 it was mentioned in #meego yesterday that it wouldnt. Feb 16 17:15:32 nid0: wouldn't what? Feb 16 17:15:41 oh I see Feb 16 17:15:47 nid0: make incompatible or compatible? Feb 16 17:15:56 I don't really care about MeeGo for N900 Feb 16 17:16:00 I care about maemo 6 for N900 Feb 16 17:16:07 what makes you so sure it'll happen? Feb 16 17:16:09 the flash size is utterly unimportant, if only the partitioning wont suck that much Feb 16 17:16:12 its never been said anything about maemo6 on n900. Feb 16 17:16:35 the 256mb rootfs limitation doesn't make the n900 automatically incompatible with meego, theyre aiming for a smaller footprint than that Feb 16 17:16:35 nid0: cool Feb 16 17:16:37 Lantizia: So you think they stop all development which has gone in the direction of Maemo6? Feb 16 17:16:48 you need a minimal busybox and a kernel on the boot system i guess you can go as small as 16MB Feb 16 17:16:48 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=44664 Feb 16 17:16:58 range: I think thats a definate possibility if the next nokia device in this range will come with MeeGo - YES Feb 16 17:17:19 if (example) an N910 is Meego 1.0... where does Maemo 6 go? Feb 16 17:17:28 only place is N900 Feb 16 17:17:44 I thought that maemo 6 was supposed to be rebranded meego? Feb 16 17:17:58 what's in a name Feb 16 17:18:03 When I say Maemo... I mean nothing to do with meego Feb 16 17:18:05 DEB based Feb 16 17:18:08 qgil said that maemo6 will happen. Feb 16 17:18:19 who is that? Feb 16 17:18:22 Quim. Feb 16 17:18:40 he said that after the meego announcement? Feb 16 17:18:41 Works for Nokia as community manager. Feb 16 17:18:44 Yes. Feb 16 17:18:54 and it'll happen for n900 and it will be deb based as normal? Feb 16 17:19:10 Nobody has said anything about n900 Feb 16 17:19:16 I just did Feb 16 17:19:35 range: shh! taboo Feb 16 17:19:42 I know. As have many outside of Nokia. Feb 16 17:19:55 Lantizia: none else have said anything about harmattan or anything except maemo5 on fremantle. Feb 16 17:20:08 frals: On n900, you mean :) Feb 16 17:20:13 yeah, doh Feb 16 17:20:19 s/fremantle/n900/ Feb 16 17:20:27 yes but if the next big Nokia will be MeeGo (undoubtably) Feb 16 17:20:35 then the work going in to Maemo 6 has no where to go Feb 16 17:21:01 But Maemo6 *will* come out. Feb 16 17:21:03 id suggest you go read some on talk.maemo.org Feb 16 17:21:07 range: on what! Feb 16 17:21:09 See the link frals gave you above Feb 16 17:21:15 Lantizia: On a Nokia Device! Feb 16 17:21:17 frals: I have - theres nothing certain about any of it Feb 16 17:21:21 range: which one! Feb 16 17:21:21 * frals bashes head Feb 16 17:21:38 Lantizia: On the same it came out before the MeeGo announcement. Feb 16 17:21:39 it's all just rumours Feb 16 17:21:43 NO. Feb 16 17:21:52 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=44664 Feb 16 17:21:54 Read that. Feb 16 17:22:12 ok i'll brb Feb 16 17:23:02 * frals quickly runs off not to get sucked in to the same discussion again Feb 16 17:23:44 ;] Feb 16 17:23:57 * satmd doesn't like either Feb 16 17:24:08 have you forgotten the N810 with no /opt whatsoever? N900 is an improvemednt. Feb 16 17:24:16 pupnik: Still :) Feb 16 17:24:47 OK read Feb 16 17:24:50 I think the complete dpkg/apt/package management stuff shouldn't need to be on the rootfs. Feb 16 17:24:56 I'll stop saying Maemo 6 and start saying Harmattan Feb 16 17:25:07 but the question is still there - what device will receive Harmattan! Feb 16 17:25:10 Hmmm, hy no update in the UK yet :? Feb 16 17:25:22 the next device Feb 16 17:25:27 matthew- nope Feb 16 17:25:28 But that'll be MeeGo Feb 16 17:25:29 Lantizia: Or maybe even the n900. Feb 16 17:25:31 Nobody knows. Feb 16 17:25:37 Except Nokia. And they don't tell. Feb 16 17:25:41 the next next nokia _will_ be meego Feb 16 17:25:46 it even implies it in the announcement Feb 16 17:25:48 this OS works great Feb 16 17:25:52 * range looks for a wall. Feb 16 17:25:54 all the marketing effort around the software platform will be around MeeGo. Feb 16 17:25:58 Feb 16 17:26:04 * frals hands range a solid brick wall Feb 16 17:26:08 hi all Feb 16 17:26:08 Thanks. Feb 16 17:26:12 * range smashes head Feb 16 17:26:18 :-) Feb 16 17:26:22 Seems like a wasted investment, if the next device doesn't run MeeGo Feb 16 17:26:31 so who wants to do something useful? Feb 16 17:26:31 yeah Feb 16 17:26:40 the announcement also said that they're targetting current devices as well Feb 16 17:26:45 well, i've got insurance on mine Feb 16 17:26:51 can't Nokia just hand Maemo over to the community once they've done stealing parts? Feb 16 17:26:55 so when the next device will come out ill just smash this one. Feb 16 17:26:58 give us _ALL_ the damned source code Feb 16 17:27:04 kernel code included Feb 16 17:27:08 and get the upgrade. Feb 16 17:27:20 all the kernel code is out there Feb 16 17:27:32 he's including modules Feb 16 17:27:35 Psssht. Feb 16 17:27:37 yes Feb 16 17:27:46 all the modules are roo Feb 16 17:27:47 too Feb 16 17:27:50 So which kernel module isn't out there as source? Feb 16 17:27:56 point one out that isn't Feb 16 17:28:04 then why does Mer require you to have them from maemo Feb 16 17:28:09 I've read they arn't available Feb 16 17:28:37 point one out Feb 16 17:28:48 ml-mobile: I can't... it's just something I've read Feb 16 17:29:00 if I find the mer install guide for n900 it'll say there Feb 16 17:29:22 sandman: ! Feb 16 17:29:39 yes Feb 16 17:30:03 i was afk shortly Feb 16 17:30:57 personally I don't see why Harmatten has to go Qt... I think there would be alot more character is Maemo was the Debianised/Hildon OS and MeeGo to RPM/Qt one Feb 16 17:31:36 If MeeGo is going to be used on the next device anyway - why would nokia be adament to put Qt on the next Maemo? when it'll never get used "out of box" Feb 16 17:31:41 matthew: did you want something? Feb 16 17:32:04 Lantizia: what? Feb 16 17:32:32 nokia has planned to go Qt with maemo6 for a long time Feb 16 17:32:43 sandman: no. Feb 16 17:32:44 ;] Feb 16 17:32:52 ml-mobile: Qt is coming to Maemo (the UI change) primarily I tend to think because they bought Trolltech... thats fine... but if they are not concentrating on MeeGo - they can accomplish that there Feb 16 17:32:53 lol! Feb 16 17:33:14 So leave Maemo to be the Hildon / Deb based OS... and they can concentrate on MeeGo to be the Qt / RPM based OS Feb 16 17:33:20 like Fedora vs Ubuntu Feb 16 17:33:31 well ok maybe OpenSUSE vs Ubuntu Feb 16 17:33:42 in other words... very distinct - very different Feb 16 17:33:45 I suspect the Qt transition was well underway before the merge Feb 16 17:33:46 gives each of them a valid purpose Feb 16 17:34:47 Or perhaps merge whats left of Maemo 5 into Mer Feb 16 17:35:00 Mer and MeeGo Feb 16 17:35:16 getting "maemo" on more than just nokia devices is pretty important. what are paths that can lead to that? Feb 16 17:35:17 Lantizia: i am with you on that Feb 16 17:35:32 pupnik: they can do that with MeeGo Feb 16 17:36:01 answer: partnerships, and only intel was ready to go that path, it seems Feb 16 17:36:20 I don't mind running the underdog Deb/GTK/Qt based OS (maemo / mer) while they fuck about with RPM's and shit Feb 16 17:36:20 so grin and bear it :) Feb 16 17:36:30 as long as Nokia set it free. there isn't even source for the media player Feb 16 17:36:35 which is constantly broke Feb 16 17:36:55 dont use it then Feb 16 17:36:56 maemo is incredibly open sure... but you can easily see why openmoko was more so Feb 16 17:37:12 openmoko was also a disaster Feb 16 17:37:16 true Feb 16 17:37:18 :) Feb 16 17:38:08 In some fronts. Feb 16 17:38:20 oh dear to maemo 6 Feb 16 17:38:26 The hardware proved that modest investments could get you to a pretty release ready phone. Feb 16 17:38:27 damn samsung should have hooked up with us :( Feb 16 17:38:32 (talking of neo1973) Feb 16 17:38:48 It also proved that you need to stick with shit until it works. Feb 16 17:38:56 And need to talk to the community. Feb 16 17:39:10 rather than dropping massive project changes on them with no notice. Feb 16 17:39:15 hey my N900 just informed me there is a Maemo5 UPDATE! is there a URL for a changelog? Feb 16 17:39:21 is the kernel configuration for maemo available somewhere? Feb 16 17:39:22 if nokia really want to just concentrate on the hardware and making good kit to run -ANY- os on Feb 16 17:39:24 then let maemo go free Feb 16 17:39:40 Lantizia: "value-add" Feb 16 17:39:55 Nokia wants to be IBM. Feb 16 17:40:01 (of 1986) Feb 16 17:40:06 Aren't the OpenMoko folks working on WikiPedia readers, or something stupid like that now? Feb 16 17:40:07 Not compaq. Feb 16 17:40:36 vmlemon_: the wikipedia reader was a almost completely unrelated project. No linux involved. Feb 16 17:41:05 Indeed. Seemed like a last-ditch attempt to stay relevant to me. Feb 16 17:41:31 19 Feb 16 17:41:32 err Feb 16 17:41:33 am I the only person who REALLY likes hildon?> Feb 16 17:41:33 openmoko didn't work because people don't care about software freedom. people only care about having the latest shiniest fisher price toy Feb 16 17:41:34 I guess that their lasting legacy is a bunch of obsolete mobile phones that barely even work as phones. Feb 16 17:41:40 I don't see why we have to let HIldon go Feb 16 17:41:54 Stskeeps, Licensing_Change_Requests wikipage does not seem to exist (yet)? Feb 16 17:42:05 andre__: no, i'm making it tomorrow Feb 16 17:42:10 ah Feb 16 17:42:13 just wanted to have the backend ready Feb 16 17:42:16 darn. I just linked against it :-P Feb 16 17:42:20 okay Feb 16 17:42:54 with maemo going qt...meego qt... angstrom (primarily) qtopia... openmoko qtopia Feb 16 17:42:59 anything left hildon ? Feb 16 17:43:09 ubuntu MID Feb 16 17:43:12 other than ubuntu mobile which was a disaster that'll never see the light of day Feb 16 17:43:13 lol Feb 16 17:43:16 Ubuntu Mobile on a one-off basis Feb 16 17:43:22 yeah - that doesn't count :) Feb 16 17:43:35 was speaking with them today and basically they're discontinuing it Feb 16 17:43:40 hildon is a mess - so they claim Feb 16 17:43:40 They were also talking up an Android Execution Environment that's still vapour Feb 16 17:43:58 Would have been interesting to see, though Feb 16 17:44:08 www.pt-br.justin.tv/sportplusbr => [17:30] UEFA CHAMPIONS LEAGUE: MILAN X MANCHESTER UNITED (OITAVAS DE FINAIS) AO VIVO Feb 16 17:44:16 thsnk god Lantizia Feb 16 17:44:16 umm thanks Feb 16 17:44:25 pupnik: what? Feb 16 17:44:51 we needed that like a toenail infection Feb 16 17:45:06 you don't like hildon? Feb 16 17:45:14 ubuntu mobile Feb 16 17:45:20 oh, wow. No GPL3 at all in any of Maemo6? Feb 16 17:45:23 with the ubuntu mobile thing - I never actually understood what the fuck about it was related to "Moblin" Feb 16 17:45:30 lupine_85: nor maemo5 Feb 16 17:45:33 if Moblin was RPM ... then how is ubuntu MID related? Feb 16 17:45:34 3 letters Feb 16 17:45:37 unless they mean Moblin 1.0 ? Feb 16 17:46:03 maybe that explains some of the odd missing packages Feb 16 17:46:04 ah well Feb 16 17:46:46 * lupine_85 can't see this being a good move Feb 16 17:47:14 lupine_85: GPLv3 isn't very welcome among industry Feb 16 17:47:27 Lantizia: ubuntu mid is used by the pandora project and these are starting to ship now Feb 16 17:47:37 indeed not Feb 16 17:47:48 but I meant the 'trusted' computing bits in general Feb 16 17:48:31 there isn't any real support for it in Maemo5 Feb 16 17:49:00 yeah Feb 16 17:49:24 future versions will, but it will be optional, at least from Nokia Feb 16 17:49:27 it'll be interesting to see how the security model they develop in an open-source fashion stands up to attempts to break it Feb 16 17:49:59 continually submit patches that undermine it :) Feb 16 17:50:03 heh Feb 16 17:50:07 'though if I read it correctly, they're depending on a root key Feb 16 17:50:18 hardware crap Feb 16 17:50:31 it's not clear to me whether the private key is in the arm chip, or if that's just the public key Feb 16 17:50:41 all hardware vendor specific Feb 16 17:50:57 in that case it's just the public key Feb 16 17:51:06 it's also not clear whether the key in the device is unique per-device, or a global key Feb 16 17:51:23 global probably Feb 16 17:51:35 since they can't change the hardware key (I'm guessing?), that strikes me as being fairly vulnerable Feb 16 17:51:59 every device sounds like it's protected by virtue of keeping the private key secret Feb 16 17:52:04 no idea if there are device specific keys Feb 16 17:52:16 maybe with regular drm Feb 16 17:54:03 shouldn'y be too unbreakable, fortunately :) Feb 16 17:54:11 Hmm, waay. Cisco wont port to n900 either. Great. Feb 16 17:54:21 lupine_85: trustzone is a TPM, it's not exactly easy to break by nature Feb 16 17:54:55 (it's not a TPM but it's the same kind of stuff, I mean) Feb 16 17:55:03 I guess it depends on the ease of getting hold of a dodgy key Feb 16 17:55:05 * wazd ' gonna cook such a UI concept that nokia/intel designers will perform harakiri at one :) Feb 16 17:55:12 though we don't have much documentation about it Feb 16 17:55:39 once* Feb 16 17:55:40 matthew-: what aren't cisco porting? Feb 16 17:55:51 the only problem with all this TPM crap is the vendors invariably use it against their customers instead of for them Feb 16 17:55:53 uhsf: pandora as in the games thing? Feb 16 17:55:58 or the music thing? Feb 16 17:56:20 lupine_85: the voip app Feb 16 17:56:20 all I ever hear is ubuntu mid is dead as dead as dead Feb 16 17:56:30 matthew-: ahh Feb 16 17:56:42 the gaming device Feb 16 17:57:03 which has similar specs to the n900 Feb 16 17:57:09 lupine_85: which is a bit of a let down, as i got 14x n900 for the office Feb 16 17:57:11 * lupine_85 is mostly happy with the SIP support Feb 16 17:57:20 matthew-: can't use sip? Feb 16 17:57:37 maybe get an in-office asterisk to interface to the phones, and act as a gateway Feb 16 17:57:41 could it be that charging the n900 over USB takes a much longer time then using the charger? Feb 16 17:57:53 Shapeshifter: probably Feb 16 17:57:56 It does Feb 16 17:58:02 USB can't push as much power as a mains charger Feb 16 17:58:03 okay Feb 16 17:58:05 specs restrictions Feb 16 17:58:15 the wall charger supplies 0.5A more Feb 16 17:58:30 re Feb 16 17:58:42 charging over usb is extremely daft anyway. I never understood why people would want it. Everytime I plug in a device just to transfer some data or do something with it, a charging cycle gets wasted Feb 16 17:58:58 and it conflicts with usb host mode Feb 16 17:59:05 which is even worse then the first thing Feb 16 17:59:07 * lupine_85 almost always charges over USB Feb 16 17:59:08 lupine_85: Hmmm, Feb 16 17:59:28 matthew-: the built-in sip works pretty flawlessly Feb 16 17:59:34 Shapeshifter: because a billion different charger sockets sucks Feb 16 17:59:47 or if you have an xmpp server, it supports voice over XMPP too Feb 16 17:59:56 ml-mobile: well ther -are- standards for charger sockets Feb 16 18:00:02 the round one, Feb 16 18:00:06 yes, many Feb 16 18:00:10 symbol looks like this -- --(o-- Feb 16 18:00:20 sure Feb 16 18:00:21 in different sizes. Feb 16 18:00:23 lupine_85: but why would i use sip and pay 14k for cisco solution? Feb 16 18:00:40 Stskeeps: moving to Licensing product finished, enjoy it :-P Feb 16 18:00:42 yeah, all sorts of sizes Feb 16 18:00:55 ml-mobile: one charger with an adaptor for all sizes isn't such a bother. Feb 16 18:01:05 or they should settle for the smallest one Feb 16 18:01:12 that I have to buy it is Feb 16 18:01:17 or at least let me choose if I want to charge or only transfer data ^^ Feb 16 18:01:25 matthew-: dunno. I've never understood the whole paying money for software thing, really Feb 16 18:01:29 andre__: thanks, most of them are my own :P Feb 16 18:01:31 or that I have one from a prior phone I can only throw away Feb 16 18:01:47 if you gave them 14K, surely you got source code? Feb 16 18:01:49 Stskeeps, feel more than free to reassign so it's clear who's repsonsible :) Feb 16 18:02:16 lupine_85: source code for what? It's cisco managed network. Feb 16 18:02:31 lupine_85: It's not paying for software, but for recording of conference calls bla bla bla Feb 16 18:02:47 for whatever voip client is being used in your other hardware Feb 16 18:03:56 * lupine_85 has a generally low opinion of cisco anyway. we have a number of 7600-series routers at work - they've been less than great Feb 16 18:03:56 la? Feb 16 18:05:22 * Arif yawns Feb 16 18:05:29 lupine_85: ;-) Feb 16 18:11:51 doh Feb 16 18:11:56 28,5MB free on rootfs Feb 16 18:12:08 after garbage collection and apt-get autoremove Feb 16 18:12:17 gotta uninstall some stuff >:/ Feb 16 18:12:23 > df -h / Feb 16 18:12:23 Filesystem Size Used Avail Capacity Mounted on Feb 16 18:12:23 dataz2/sys/fbsd 5.2T 3.2G 5.2T 0% / Feb 16 18:12:34 which rootfs? ;> Feb 16 18:12:40 the N900 one :p Feb 16 18:12:54 disable extras testing and extras devel Feb 16 18:13:10 5.2T isnt huge Feb 16 18:13:15 I've already moved my apt-get caches out from rootfs Feb 16 18:13:22 I dunno Feb 16 18:13:28 it's just apps mostly Feb 16 18:13:37 we only have 4.3T in our backup server Feb 16 18:13:43 ('though we do have 3 of those) Feb 16 18:13:48 meh, run debian in a chroot for apps Feb 16 18:13:50 I just bought a 1TB desktop hd <3 Feb 16 18:13:53 thresh: it's actually 5.4T, but zfs shows funny stuff with df Feb 16 18:14:05 in theory cisco support sip at some level, could never get it to work though Feb 16 18:14:12 upgrade from my 10 year old 2x Maxtors (totaling in 500GB) which are running on holy spirit Feb 16 18:14:16 thresh: and there are 6 1.5TB drives configured in raidz2 Feb 16 18:14:28 is this where you insert df -h output from your fileserver of choice? Feb 16 18:14:45 frals: no. this is where you insert df -h from your home NAS Feb 16 18:14:46 yes Feb 16 18:14:47 ;> Feb 16 18:14:50 0o Feb 16 18:15:41 dataz2/sys/fbsd 105.2T 3.2G 105.2T 0% / Feb 16 18:15:42 home NAS/fileserver, potato potatoe ;) Feb 16 18:15:43 see what i did there Feb 16 18:16:00 trickery Feb 16 18:16:38 uninstall of chocie: fireshit & it's runtimes Feb 16 18:16:42 back to plenty rootfs space Feb 16 18:17:51 * swc|666 solders a 512mb nand Feb 16 18:21:40 swc|666: I'd be impressed Feb 16 18:22:38 ml-mobile, not cost effective when one has the power of debian either/or/both on internal flash or sd ;) Feb 16 18:23:38 killall -9 {tracker-indexer,modest} seems to help too Feb 16 18:25:01 and my biggest gripe is that the massive amount of lang files are depends with meta packages Feb 16 18:27:05 can't we delete all those languages to free up rootfs? :P Feb 16 18:27:20 red: 105 Feb 16 18:27:26 red: 105t? I hate you now :) Feb 16 18:28:19 copy/alter/paste is well worth jealousy! Feb 16 18:31:43 btw Feb 16 18:31:59 is it confirmed 1.1.1 is a stepping stone for 1.2? Feb 16 18:32:46 1.2 should be released before the end of February Feb 16 18:32:50 I hear this is the last firmware update for the N900! Feb 16 18:32:53 * Arif runs Feb 16 18:33:15 Arif is right, I can confirm Feb 16 18:33:19 * TomaszD runs along Feb 16 18:33:24 :D Feb 16 18:33:47 * ifreq grabs the shotgun Feb 16 18:33:50 and a showerl Feb 16 18:33:55 showel* Feb 16 18:34:12 shower? Feb 16 18:34:19 lol shovel? Feb 16 18:34:28 shovel* Feb 16 18:34:30 :-P Feb 16 18:41:41 playing with maemo5 sdk. in scratchbox, instead of time, it's displaying wdgt_va_24h_time. what did I break? Feb 16 18:42:28 hmm. the screen has gone blank on my N900 and won't come back. Seems that bzip2 is using all the CPU unpacking the debian image Feb 16 18:42:59 anyone with an english, nederlands kind of keyboard layout? Feb 16 18:43:17 in notes, what character does shift (release) comma give you? Feb 16 18:43:19 evilrob: localization stuff is busted Feb 16 18:43:28 (same for period, space) Feb 16 18:44:21 ml-mobile: figuring that out poking around. ideas on fixing it? Feb 16 18:44:47 evilrob: I had the issue but it was a while ago Feb 16 18:45:03 try switching the language Feb 16 18:45:14 then reverting it Feb 16 18:45:36 ~ping Feb 16 18:45:37 ~pong Feb 16 18:46:10 so Feb 16 18:46:24 hmm... en_US is broken. en_UK is fine Feb 16 18:46:24 os Feb 16 18:46:32 i think n900 can discharge faster than it charges :) Feb 16 18:46:45 "Everything that is really great and inspiring is created by the individual who can labor in freedom." ~ Albert Einstein Feb 16 18:47:29 full cpu load + 3g + gps = really fast battery drain Feb 16 18:47:33 that is a great quote pupnik :) Feb 16 18:52:27 ok help. How do I get my N900 to wake up again? It's busy doing something related to the debian chroot image. How did this make the screen go completely blank? I've got ssh access, any ideas? Feb 16 18:52:35 SystemParadox: tap screen? Feb 16 18:52:39 lol Feb 16 18:53:18 it's not having any of it, buttons or anything Feb 16 18:53:52 I was messing with my bluetooth keyboard as well, maybe I've messed up the input events? Is there a way of waking it up on the command line? Feb 16 18:54:00 SystemParadox, are u ssh'd into it? Feb 16 18:54:03 hi all Feb 16 18:54:05 yes Feb 16 18:54:11 so MeeGo is Maemo 6? Feb 16 18:54:19 use top/htop to see whats eating mem Feb 16 18:54:23 the press are a tad confusing :) Feb 16 18:54:23 run this... Feb 16 18:54:32 killall -9 tracker-indexer Feb 16 18:54:55 ah, just noted the Topic Feb 16 18:54:55 SystemParadox, what is the mount point for debian on your n900 btw Feb 16 18:55:15 bunzip2 is running, but it's only really using 40% CPU or less Feb 16 18:55:24 I suspect it's busy with disk access Feb 16 18:55:45 what is it unzipping? Feb 16 18:55:58 let it run is my advice Feb 16 18:56:04 but surely it shouldn't stop responding to the UI, even if it's using all CPU and munching on the disk as much as possible Feb 16 18:56:10 yea it will Feb 16 18:56:11 it's doing the debian chroot install Feb 16 18:56:21 leave it then Feb 16 18:56:26 but Feb 16 18:56:29 killall -9 tracker-indexer Feb 16 18:56:45 now, there are either of these two features i'd like to request: Subtitle support for mediaplayer or greater hw cooperation in mplayer, i watched half a hour of video and i've drained my battery already Feb 16 18:56:55 why am I killing that? Feb 16 18:57:12 because its not needed right now Feb 16 18:57:52 and if the mount point is not hidden with . then tracker-indexer will try and scan it Feb 16 18:57:58 the installer for debian needs a warning for this Feb 16 18:58:21 how can i ping a device via usb fine, and get ssh: no route to host error? how is that possible? of course there is a route to host if i can ping? Feb 16 18:59:08 uhsf, what OS? Feb 16 19:00:10 arch linux Feb 16 19:00:41 everything was fine but after a reboot (power interruption) i can't connect anymore Feb 16 19:01:03 still no update in the UK :? Feb 16 19:01:12 matthew-, what update? Feb 16 19:01:21 SystemParadox: firmware update Feb 16 19:01:22 + is it normal than most ports on my pc gives insufficient power to my n900 and it can't charge? Feb 16 19:01:24 uhsf: does the host you're attempting to connect to have a firewall? Feb 16 19:01:29 matthew-, I had one this morning Feb 16 19:01:34 SystemParadox: UK ? Feb 16 19:01:43 yeah Feb 16 19:01:47 i didnt... Feb 16 19:01:49 I was for maemo5 Feb 16 19:02:06 uhsf: you can get that message if the firewall sends an ICMP message Feb 16 19:02:12 sr71: no firewall Feb 16 19:02:20 matthew- - still no uk update Feb 16 19:02:20 any firewall which does that should be shot Feb 16 19:02:25 i've still got 2.2009.51 Feb 16 19:02:30 nid0: thanks. Feb 16 19:02:32 how do I find out what version? Feb 16 19:02:37 people in the uk who've had the update have international product versions Feb 16 19:02:49 either because they imported the phone or have flashed it to international in the past Feb 16 19:02:58 ah ok Feb 16 19:02:59 ok I may well be in that case Feb 16 19:03:09 nid0: thanks for the info. Feb 16 19:04:11 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-_rf2jVxxY Feb 16 19:04:16 you've heard this, right?:D Feb 16 19:05:47 does this mean no maemo6? Feb 16 19:06:39 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=44664 Feb 16 19:08:32 booo rpm Feb 16 19:09:00 +1 Feb 16 19:09:22 rpm ftw Feb 16 19:09:26 +1 Feb 16 19:09:30 :) Feb 16 19:09:35 oh lord, here we go again Feb 16 19:09:43 (i totally should make an auto-exclamation on that) Feb 16 19:09:43 it's an attempt to identify holy wars, step on one side, hten jump on the other Feb 16 19:09:50 they should use yum Feb 16 19:09:52 Na, I can hold my water. Feb 16 19:09:53 *hides* Feb 16 19:10:03 * sp3000 wonders if there are any more of those available, ...probably Feb 16 19:10:03 does the underlying package manager really matter considering the platform isn't a command-line based install process? Feb 16 19:10:36 you can do apt-get install Feb 16 19:10:39 on maemo Feb 16 19:11:00 yes. I know. Feb 16 19:11:39 plus when ever two projects merge , people are always upset about it Feb 16 19:12:01 * Mousey is upset Feb 16 19:12:06 +1 Feb 16 19:12:17 my point is that it doesn't really matter unless you're a command-line geek. (I'm a command-line geek) Feb 16 19:12:19 stupid intel, tryna piggyback on nokia's success Feb 16 19:12:25 cuz they can't get it up themselves Feb 16 19:12:29 * Mousey waves fist o/ Feb 16 19:12:46 evilrob: its just isntall foo Feb 16 19:12:54 evilrob: and I choose maemo because I'm a command-line geek. Feb 16 19:13:04 that's like taking something fixed, and replacing it with something broken Feb 16 19:13:04 marmoute: see ^^ Feb 16 19:13:20 oh - really ? Feb 16 19:13:33 Mousey: it's taking something working and replacing it with something else that's working. Feb 16 19:13:36 I won't be happy to see the only geek compliant cellphone-os to merge into anything else. Feb 16 19:13:37 nah Feb 16 19:13:49 Mousey: Nokia's success is mostly marketting anyhow -.- Feb 16 19:14:06 apt/dpkg is the best, most mature, package manager system in the known universe. replacing it with -anything- is a downgrade Feb 16 19:14:07 itn's not nessicarially needed, but someone somewhere made the business decision Feb 16 19:14:22 Mousey: how long have you been a unix admin? Feb 16 19:14:30 evilrob: since about '94 Feb 16 19:14:54 my first unix admin job was in 89. quit being a unix admin 3 years ago. Feb 16 19:15:05 hehe, on the other hand... "stupid nokia, tryna piggyback on Linux's success" ;) Feb 16 19:15:05 yah, i quit unix years ago Feb 16 19:15:08 huh,new update? Feb 16 19:15:10 dpkg is good. apt was bolted on top Feb 16 19:15:13 crapp/lack of package managers Feb 16 19:15:24 this is not a technical desision Feb 16 19:15:24 evilrob: bolted on top a decade ago Feb 16 19:15:27 apt is deprecated for Debian Feb 16 19:15:28 rpm was good. yum was bolted on top Feb 16 19:15:34 maemo is run by 'effective managers' Feb 16 19:15:34 YUM is scotched taped on top of RPM Feb 16 19:15:36 i prefer bolts Feb 16 19:15:41 why Maemo still uses apt I don't know Feb 16 19:15:47 blah blah blah Feb 16 19:15:56 * nid0 tosses in a nano handbook Feb 16 19:16:02 * RST38h remembers how he upgraded Python in RedHat and the whole rpm system stopped working Feb 16 19:16:08 lol Feb 16 19:16:18 lets just switch to .cabs and InstallSheild Feb 16 19:16:27 cuz redhat SUCKs Feb 16 19:16:29 how about tarballs Feb 16 19:16:29 ^_^ Feb 16 19:16:34 tarballs are for old people Feb 16 19:16:37 how about pkgadd Feb 16 19:16:40 Apparently, RedHat folks forgot to include a "safe" copy of Python to run their own crap Feb 16 19:16:40 i am old :P Feb 16 19:16:42 pkgadd is for tarballs Feb 16 19:17:20 .msi! Feb 16 19:17:24 ew Feb 16 19:17:25 tar zxfv package.tgz && configure && make && make install Feb 16 19:17:26 It is the Industry Standard. Feb 16 19:17:33 And part of Microsoft Enterprise Best Practices Feb 16 19:17:43 MEBP doesn't even spell anything Feb 16 19:17:45 how about installp Feb 16 19:17:52 how about it's 2010 Feb 16 19:18:05 yeah. installp is alive and well Feb 16 19:18:06 lets use a (meta-)package manager like -real- computer folks Feb 16 19:18:14 enterprise package management Feb 16 19:18:19 IT'S ALIVE! Feb 16 19:18:20 what's next SAM Feb 16 19:18:21 Let's include a LISP interpreter for package management Feb 16 19:18:22 SMIT? Feb 16 19:18:27 And let everyone write their own package manager Feb 16 19:18:29 lets all go back to OS/360 Feb 16 19:18:41 Packages? What packages? You mean decks of cards? Feb 16 19:18:42 well you brought up maturity Feb 16 19:18:53 of the package manager. obviously not your own Feb 16 19:19:00 maturity and longevity are two different things Feb 16 19:19:10 Lumpio: This has been already done. In AmigaOS. Feb 16 19:19:12 just because something is old, doesn't mean it's mature Feb 16 19:19:50 my point that you failed to grasp is that the interface the majority of users see isn't the command-line one Feb 16 19:20:07 so it doesn't really matter as long as the front end tooling works well Feb 16 19:20:36 it matters for those of us who have to -deal- with the majority of users (who don't even know what a command line is) when it's time to fix things that are broken Feb 16 19:21:08 so when your mom comes to you cuz her package won't install, and it's not an industry-standard like apt.. then you have a harder time supporting it, and fewer resources to turn to to fix it Feb 16 19:22:01 everybody (in here at least)(probably) knows apt.. and not just in the context of maemo Feb 16 19:22:25 allright. enough of the package manager discussion. if he says anything intelligent, someone else let me know. (I love /ignore) Feb 16 19:22:26 like tar, but more intelligent, apt/dpkg is available on a variety of devices, from mainframes to embedded devices Feb 16 19:22:43 * Mousey never says anything intelligent Feb 16 19:22:51 still whining about meego uses rpm? Feb 16 19:22:58 it uses rpm? that's acceptable Feb 16 19:23:03 What, meeho uses rpm? >:( Feb 16 19:23:11 but rpm < apt Feb 16 19:23:15 Traitors! Feb 16 19:23:15 s/apt/dpkg/ Feb 16 19:23:16 Mousey meant: but rpm < dpkg Feb 16 19:23:33 Mousey: but apt is broken and deprecated. Feb 16 19:23:37 hahaha Feb 16 19:23:42 what? Feb 16 19:23:43 Why? Feb 16 19:23:53 LuciusMare: which half? :p Feb 16 19:23:59 * Mousey ceases postin' in a troll thread Feb 16 19:23:59 heh Feb 16 19:24:11 it's just a question about taste and what you are used to, IMHO it should use portage Feb 16 19:24:13 broken, because it fails to properly record user-desired packages Feb 16 19:24:21 deprecated, because it has been replaced by aptitude Feb 16 19:24:21 anyone know what's supposed to come in the next "major" maemo update after this 16MB "minor" update I got this morning? Feb 16 19:24:30 Anyway, i saw several programs with summary like "Used for serial controlling on the usb port" - is it possible on n900? Feb 16 19:24:38 timeless: wasn't it so that pr1.1.1 has all new browser engine? Feb 16 19:24:48 no Feb 16 19:24:52 1.2 has a new engine Feb 16 19:24:53 really? Feb 16 19:24:57 1.1.1 just has a minor bug fix or 3 Feb 16 19:25:02 maybe 10 tops Feb 16 19:25:07 aptitude is a front end Feb 16 19:25:11 probably closer to 5-7 Feb 16 19:25:11 and not as smart as apt Feb 16 19:25:16 wait, i'm doing it again Feb 16 19:25:18 * Mousey stops Feb 16 19:25:19 konttori: did you see my bugmail to you <1hr ago? Feb 16 19:25:23 oh. I thought browser was the main reason to have pr1.1.1 out Feb 16 19:25:30 no, I don't read email @ home Feb 16 19:25:30 no Feb 16 19:25:34 Hello-o? Feb 16 19:26:23 adblock coming for new browser engine? Feb 16 19:26:30 jf-: eh? Feb 16 19:26:33 the browser is a browser Feb 16 19:26:40 adblocking is an addon Feb 16 19:26:41 * frals enjoys checking webserver logs for N900 useragents Feb 16 19:27:07 * timeless_mbp tries to get an n900 to actually restore settings Feb 16 19:27:09 timeless_mbp: when 1.2 comes out approx? Feb 16 19:27:21 Scelt: before the heat death of the universe Feb 16 19:27:21 probably current adblock needs update to work with new engine Feb 16 19:27:22 ... i hope Feb 16 19:27:35 jf-: i sure hope not Feb 16 19:29:06 timeless_mbp: thanks Feb 16 19:29:18 timeless_mbp: I was trying to contribute a bit to http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_5/PR1.1.1 Feb 16 19:29:27 konttori: ah Feb 16 19:29:32 andre__: spoke to me about it Feb 16 19:29:37 i tried to give him the best info i had Feb 16 19:29:49 i'm w/ sp3000 right now, and he's our integrator Feb 16 19:30:32 from my notebook usb networking works fine, but from my workstation with the same commands: ssh: connect to host 192.168.0.202 port 22: Connection timed out. or No route to host. How is that possible? Feb 16 19:30:54 So, no serial over usb at n900? Feb 16 19:31:11 what's no serial? Feb 16 19:31:13 AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH Feb 16 19:31:28 I don't have access to the full changelog from home. I would otherwise probably write all of the changes there. Feb 16 19:31:29 my N900 won't boot :'( Feb 16 19:31:45 Hi Feb 16 19:31:54 I could ask for ok to also publish the full changelog. As far as I remember it was something less than 50 fixes. Feb 16 19:32:02 i mean, serial port, for example for controlling servos Feb 16 19:32:13 it does the nokia screen, does the thing with the dots, then the screen goes blank and the backlight eventually turns off as well Feb 16 19:32:18 how to make serial work? Feb 16 19:32:40 SystemParadox: that happened to me too. I ended up reflashing, losing less than I feared. Feb 16 19:32:40 All I did was install the debian chroot! I thought that wasn't supposed to break things! Feb 16 19:32:47 ! Feb 16 19:32:52 uhsf: i was asking if it was possible Feb 16 19:33:06 doubleukay, losing less? How can you reflash without losing everything? Feb 16 19:33:10 my device doesn't have enough space for the new update... is this space I need on the / partition? in that case, how can I easily check what packages are eating space there? Feb 16 19:33:30 pajp: wmo, free up rootfs Feb 16 19:33:39 pajp: storage usage app Feb 16 19:33:44 LuciusMare: it works fine with my notebook and it was working fine with my workstation until today Feb 16 19:33:51 konttori, PR1.1.1 wikipage? edits very welcome, thanks! Feb 16 19:33:53 LuciusMare: wmo? Feb 16 19:33:53 SystemParadox: the only effort I had to put in was reinstalling apps and recustomizing the builtin settings + desktop. the contacts, and app settings, were thankfully still present. Feb 16 19:34:00 pajp: wiki maemo org Feb 16 19:34:07 LuciusMare: what could have changed after a reboot that broke usb networking so bad? Feb 16 19:34:13 * andre__ wonders where the folks went that normally did this... nokia probably busy with all the meego noise Feb 16 19:34:14 wait. Feb 16 19:34:25 SystemParadox: I only reflashed the root device without reflashing the 2GB home partition Feb 16 19:34:33 LuciusMare: ah ok Feb 16 19:34:37 doubleukay, did you ever get the debian chroot working? Feb 16 19:34:38 I was talking about serial (http://nitlogic.net/free-download/serial_port.jpg ) Feb 16 19:34:46 pr 1.1.1 fix: Disables apt-get from installing ovi store content, is it possible to downgrade apt-get and get content from ovi store free (for example upcoming sygic navigator?) :-D Feb 16 19:34:55 or somewhat like that :) Feb 16 19:35:05 I heard the N900 can't act as a USB host Feb 16 19:35:11 So at the very least you'll need special hardware. Feb 16 19:35:18 As in, just any USB to serial adapter will not do. Feb 16 19:35:37 Lumpio-: compile gadget_serial ? Feb 16 19:35:43 (kernel module) Feb 16 19:35:52 i don't want to hear about that obsolete serial port Feb 16 19:35:58 SystemParadox: yes, I had a false start though. I plugged the usb into the computer and chose "mass storage". when I ran the debian chroot installer it proceeded to fill up the 2GB partition.. which fortunately didn't brick the device Feb 16 19:36:06 lupine_85: Yes, but does that turn the N900 into a USB host? Feb 16 19:36:22 I'd say most if not all the USB to serial adapters out there expect a host to connect to. Feb 16 19:36:24 Lumpio-: no, it's still a USB gadget Feb 16 19:36:25 SystemParadox: I then went to get a microsd card to install the chroot onto, because I didn't wanna muck around repartitioning the builtin mmc Feb 16 19:36:26 my n900 was working fine with usb networking yesterday but today nothing will work Feb 16 19:36:30 Hence, special hardware. Feb 16 19:36:45 Why should be usb host needed for usb>serial? Feb 16 19:36:55 does it even have a usb host controller? Feb 16 19:37:09 ...no Feb 16 19:37:14 At least that's what I heard Feb 16 19:37:22 well Feb 16 19:37:23 USB host not doable, on the hardware level. Feb 16 19:37:28 maybe, but it is disabled by the kernel Feb 16 19:37:32 Some of my facebook friends keep duplicating after I merge them with the original contact. I'm wondering if this is related to the extra pidgin protocols, or hermes application. Anyone seen this, and know how to fix it? Feb 16 19:37:41 Lumpio-: http://www.mjmwired.net/kernel/Documentation/usb/gadget_serial.txt is the closest you'll get, I suspect Feb 16 19:37:42 n900 can work with usb networking but i don't have an obsolete serial port on my pc Feb 16 19:38:01 *Sigh* Feb 16 19:38:04 I can't see why the bulk i/o wouldn't work Feb 16 19:38:09 andre__: I have trouble remembering what went in there. It was only the first week of january that we worked on the pr1.1.1. Feb 16 19:38:19 All I said is that an off-the-shelf USB to serial adapter will probably not work Feb 16 19:38:30 If you make a USB to serial adapter that has an USB host controller inside it, then yes, it's doable Feb 16 19:38:35 I only remember it was somehow a requested update release with predefined approved changes Feb 16 19:38:51 heh Feb 16 19:39:05 Lumpio-: but how would it interact with the tablet itself? Feb 16 19:39:06 my n900 lags Feb 16 19:39:12 holy shit my keyboard app is finally working Feb 16 19:39:13 LuciusMare: ...via a USB cable Feb 16 19:39:15 locales for region expansio, opengles for ovi games development, .deb installation to enable ovi paid content delivery Feb 16 19:39:16 in xterm -> "top" Feb 16 19:39:23 i have like 240mb of ram used Feb 16 19:39:30 heh, i meant, software side Feb 16 19:39:42 konttori, yeah, can imagine...it's ben a while. I had also big trouble yesterday evening to get an overview at all which public bugs were fixed. Took me a while to understand, but timeless was very helpful in explaining some stuff :) Feb 16 19:39:45 You'll need a driver for it Feb 16 19:39:47 Vanadis: Linux rarely leaves RAM unused Feb 16 19:39:52 okay Feb 16 19:39:52 I've never heard of such an adapter so I have no idea what Feb 16 19:40:14 Vanadis: 'cached' is RAM that can be treated as unused ;) Feb 16 19:40:15 That is, if anyone has even written such a driver before Feb 16 19:40:46 Assembly? Feb 16 19:40:59 I... take it you're not into kernel development Feb 16 19:41:13 How did you guess? :P Feb 16 19:41:24 Most kernel stuff is written in C Feb 16 19:41:25 LuciusMare: C Feb 16 19:41:42 if Linux was assembly, it wouldn't run on ARM :p Feb 16 19:41:53 i know linux is written in C Feb 16 19:42:05 well, mostly C Feb 16 19:42:17 a very big mostly :p Feb 16 19:42:27 But not all :P Feb 16 19:42:42 probably 0.0001% assembly Feb 16 19:42:42 andre__: i have no idea which folks are paying attn to meego Feb 16 19:42:43 :p Feb 16 19:42:43 Some platform specific stuff is written in, yes, ASM. Feb 16 19:42:50 afaik most of us aren't, or are at most merely speculating Feb 16 19:42:53 HA! Feb 16 19:42:53 But it's avoided for the aforementioned reasons Feb 16 19:43:09 konttori: if you wanna give me instructions for getting a better changelog, i can use the vpn from work to follow directions Feb 16 19:43:29 AFAIK, perhipheral drivers, especially external ones, are NEVER assembly :P Feb 16 19:43:42 Hm, i think that if someone would go through all the pain with making usb host, he wouldnt make an serial port Feb 16 19:43:49 s/an/a/ Feb 16 19:43:49 LuciusMare meant: Hm, i think that if someone would go through all the pain with making usb host, he wouldnt make a serial port Feb 16 19:44:54 ...what Feb 16 19:45:04 Anyways, if you really need that device, start building ;P Feb 16 19:45:17 There should be microcontrollers with built-in USB host out there Feb 16 19:46:35 Lumpio-: like the N810? Feb 16 19:46:54 I need half a thousand of people and three speenfeeders even to run one stupid program. Feb 16 19:47:10 I do not personally think i am the right one to do that :P Feb 16 19:48:40 And it is not probably an easy job either. Feb 16 19:50:08 Mousey: ;P Feb 16 19:50:30 LuciusMare: Well, if one is into electronics, something like that should be from the easy end of the scale Feb 16 19:50:34 ...I'm not really into electronics though Feb 16 19:50:37 so... Feb 16 19:53:46 me neither, but i'd like to. Feb 16 19:54:06 did a new version of maemo drop? Feb 16 19:54:17 qgil: In other words, they do not care about anyone present here? Feb 16 19:55:22 hiyo RST38h Feb 16 19:55:33 mooo javispedro Feb 16 19:55:35 what a "FIX" for the pulseaudio issue. Feb 16 19:56:40 hopefully this is one of the things we won't see with meego. if someone creates yet another private bugzilla for open components and forces andre to be the messenger, I will ensure he gets a slow death. Feb 16 19:56:52 javispedro: I am not getting it. Looks like they simply do not have anyone capable of understanding how PA works Feb 16 19:56:56 whoever creates the private bugzilla, not andre :P Feb 16 19:57:07 javispedro, +1 Feb 16 19:57:19 javispedro: Which is really weird. Feb 16 19:57:29 javispedro: what pulseaudio fix? Feb 16 19:57:47 konttori: bug #5524 Feb 16 19:57:47 konttori: Well, the PA-hangs-on-exit-when-blocked thing Feb 16 19:57:48 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5524 PulseAudio clients are muted and hang on exit when media player is playing music Feb 16 19:57:51 ahaha I realized now that in the topic there is my image of the maemo's tombstone :D Feb 16 19:58:14 konttori: Instead of fixing it properly, whoever is responsible seems to be erecting workaround on top of workaround Feb 16 19:58:22 for bug 5524 it would be REALLY great if some developers would leave their black box and comment directly in bugs.mameo.org Feb 16 19:59:15 javispedro: comment 31 says that media player playback should not stall sdl, but still, phone call will Feb 16 19:59:27 I think that's perfectly ok strategy, do you disagree? Feb 16 19:59:33 konttori: that is not an issue Feb 16 19:59:47 konttori: I am personally ok even if the media player stalls SDL Feb 16 19:59:51 konttori: ok, that's the bit of clarification I wanted :) Feb 16 20:00:19 konttori: The problem is that SDL (or any other application with stalled PA) cannot quit while its PA is being blocked by higher priority PA Feb 16 20:00:28 if one wants to have his application come up in the list of available applications in the n900 application installer what kind of submission process does one have to go through? Feb 16 20:00:42 yeah, I really hate some things about our policy. Feb 16 20:00:52 konttori: But it is not even about the policy! Feb 16 20:01:00 konttori: here is how it goes Feb 16 20:01:04 first being that if you are in silent mode, apps need to request for access for audio. Feb 16 20:01:43 konttori: There is a thread that plays sound. That thread requests audio access at the beginning, then spins in a loop playing audio and checking the quit variable Feb 16 20:02:10 konttori: Now, in the current Fremantle when someone else plays higher priority audiom this thread hangs at the start and never gets a chance to exit Feb 16 20:02:43 well, media player should play at lowest prio, imho. Feb 16 20:02:46 konttori: The solution is pretty simple: DO NOT completely block at the start. Check for *both* audio becoming available *and* the quit flag Feb 16 20:03:04 konttori: This way even if you do not get a chance to play audio, you can still quit Feb 16 20:03:20 RST38h: doesn't it also hang if you start mediaplayer _after_ the pa mainloop? Feb 16 20:03:30 javispedro: Probably Feb 16 20:03:40 javispedro: Either way, it simply blocks. Hard. Feb 16 20:04:04 javispedro: should be avoidable by blocking with a timeout of a few seconds. Feb 16 20:05:48 so, if the media player priority part's been fixed, remove all my crap from the bug and rename it to something more technical, like "libpulse's mainloop hangs when audio disabled/muted" Feb 16 20:09:21 the priority thing isn't even a bug, it is more of a policy thing Feb 16 20:09:26 but the hangup is a bug Feb 16 20:09:57 media player no longer skips while browsing? Feb 16 20:10:06 never did for me Feb 16 20:10:16 only when establishing gprs connection which I can survive Feb 16 20:10:34 it's not that bad vs mediabox skipping when anything happends Feb 16 20:12:02 so, will we ever have a new maemo release? will the new Meego run on N900 too? http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/15/meego-nokia-and-intel-merge-maemo-and-moblin Feb 16 20:12:20 RST38h: when the builtin games have preference over the "policy", then it's a bug :) but yes, I shouldn't have merged the policy issue with the bug it was causing. Feb 16 20:14:40 damn Feb 16 20:14:56 locales are taking 28 MB of rootfs even I'd need max to two locales Feb 16 20:16:27 Scelt: that's compressed by ubifs Feb 16 20:16:35 the actual size is just 3 megs Feb 16 20:17:34 oh, okay Feb 16 20:17:38 konttori, 3 megs blocking us from doing firmware update ;p Feb 16 20:17:43 hehe Feb 16 20:18:00 http://maemo-experience.blogspot.com/2010/02/free-up-space-on-rootfs.html Feb 16 20:18:03 how about that? Feb 16 20:18:04 stop poking around in extras-devel Feb 16 20:18:05 :p Feb 16 20:18:11 verified? Feb 16 20:20:03 hmm what os does crackberries use? Feb 16 20:20:09 is it the rootfs you have to free up space on to install the update? Feb 16 20:20:28 tybollt: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BlackBerry#Operating_system Feb 16 20:20:29 Crackberry OS? Feb 16 20:20:37 koala_man: yeah Feb 16 20:20:51 koala_man: you need around 42-44 MB Feb 16 20:20:58 Crackberry has an OS? Stunning Feb 16 20:21:21 it can multitask Feb 16 20:21:29 it can open a word document and MSN at the same time! Feb 16 20:22:14 tybollt: Some proprietary Java-based crap Feb 16 20:22:18 will uninstalling stuff free up space on the rootfs? doesn't appear to help Feb 16 20:22:31 uninstalling extras apps wont Feb 16 20:22:39 -devel and -testing stuff will Feb 16 20:23:00 disabling those repos will as well Feb 16 20:23:16 koala_man: apt-get clean - emptied 4 MB for me Feb 16 20:23:25 you can also flash with NSU! Feb 16 20:23:43 no you can't! it's not so 1337! Feb 16 20:23:57 I cant anyway :< Feb 16 20:24:03 or use the flasher! Feb 16 20:24:06 stupid uk product code Feb 16 20:24:43 koala_man: if you have a lot of themes installed, remove ones you don't use or move them from /usr/share/themes to your home directory temporarily Feb 16 20:24:57 * wazd 's gonna kill everybody with flash meego UI concept :) Feb 16 20:24:59 koala_man: also some apps are worse than others about taking up root space (abiword) Feb 16 20:27:41 thanks, I've got it going now on 43.8mb free Feb 16 20:28:05 woot! my n900 just shipped. should be here tomorrow Feb 16 20:28:27 cool Feb 16 20:28:31 happy meego day Feb 16 20:28:47 oh, so odd to see the DUI video pulled off Feb 16 20:28:55 as well as blog posts pulled off Feb 16 20:28:58 yeah... the day I push the button the order, they announce meego. Feb 16 20:29:25 konttori: Yeah, wondered about the same thing, where did they go? Feb 16 20:29:43 btw, anyone have a good idea on how to questimate the theoretical speed at the gprs interface at given time Feb 16 20:29:45 I want a keyboardless N900 Feb 16 20:30:00 as in when connected in 3G mode but user has 1mbit subscription Feb 16 20:30:01 jsa_: yeah, really odd. Feb 16 20:30:01 I want an n900 with a decent keyboard :( Feb 16 20:30:06 Watched it once, the second time I tried it was pulled. Feb 16 20:30:11 just dont slide it out ;) Feb 16 20:30:14 then going to edge and to gprs Feb 16 20:30:18 jsa_: you have it cached? Feb 16 20:30:22 Arif: superglue Feb 16 20:30:34 (i'd suppose the GSM state changes are announced on DBUS) Feb 16 20:30:40 a phone that's a bit thinner too! :P Feb 16 20:30:40 anyway, I also saw it earlier. it was pretty good video Feb 16 20:30:50 guys at the office are really excited about dui Feb 16 20:30:53 then again, I come from the N95 :D Feb 16 20:30:58 Arif: oh well... now you say that :) Feb 16 20:31:27 * konttori still believes it has too many widgets, but that's just him. Feb 16 20:31:41 konttori: DUI = "Driving Under the Influence"? Feb 16 20:31:49 yeah, that toolkit Feb 16 20:31:51 * Arif glues evilrob's N900 camera shutter Feb 16 20:31:51 Scelt: Developing, obviously Feb 16 20:32:01 konttori: have they resolved the symbian duplication problem already? Feb 16 20:32:05 konttori: nice, I like it Feb 16 20:32:31 RST38h: you mean orbit? Feb 16 20:32:42 * GeneralAntilles gives up on scrollback. Feb 16 20:32:49 konttori: yes Feb 16 20:32:59 General: Not much to see there anyway Feb 16 20:33:10 * Arif empties GeneralAntilles' rootfs Feb 16 20:33:19 ah, well, as totally unofficial comment, I really don't know what to thing. Feb 16 20:33:23 s/thing/think Feb 16 20:33:36 Hmmm, any1 wants to earn some cash? Feb 16 20:33:47 how much cash? Feb 16 20:34:01 and will there be bodies to hide? Feb 16 20:34:05 oh no, yet another business proposal over the rpm vs deb flame war? Feb 16 20:34:14 javispedro: no no Feb 16 20:34:22 Just need to run Citrix on maemo. Feb 16 20:34:29 citrwhat? Feb 16 20:34:33 javispedro: no, he is probably just looking for a kidney... Feb 16 20:34:47 Arif: Citrix Feb 16 20:34:51 yeah. which citrix product Feb 16 20:34:59 http://www.citrix.com/English/SS/downloads/details.asp?downloadID=3323&productID=-1 Feb 16 20:34:59 never heard of it ;P Feb 16 20:35:04 for ARM Processor devices Feb 16 20:35:07 probably this one. Feb 16 20:35:25 javispedro: why did we even have such a war? It's only packaging. Feb 16 20:35:28 * konttori hides Feb 16 20:35:34 looks boring Feb 16 20:35:35 konttori: you expecting any releases after pr1.2? Feb 16 20:35:40 yeah Feb 16 20:35:50 * mashiara has been making RPMs and DEBs Feb 16 20:35:52 matthew-: I'd ask Citrix... Feb 16 20:35:56 pr1.3 scheduled some time before, or around summer Feb 16 20:35:58 javispedro: I did Feb 16 20:36:02 debs require a lot more diligence, this is not a bad thing Feb 16 20:36:06 hcarrega: Maemo not supported. Feb 16 20:36:07 (you know, the usual, no confirmation of dates) Feb 16 20:36:15 konttori: ok cool Feb 16 20:36:20 javispedro: ^^ that was to you Feb 16 20:36:29 "debs require a lot more diligence" lol why Feb 16 20:36:29 well, major release for that time Feb 16 20:36:30 matthew-: ? Feb 16 20:36:38 something might come in between. pr1.2.1. Feb 16 20:36:44 but no such thing is planned atm Feb 16 20:36:47 you can easily screw up spec files as well Feb 16 20:36:53 konttori: it's not actually a deb vs rpm war, as the more mentally capable combatants ;) have already stated -- it's something weirder about "the debian way". Feb 16 20:37:04 and then after pr1.3 comer pr1.4 in autumn Feb 16 20:37:09 sure, of course it's just IMO Feb 16 20:37:15 i don't like .rpm Feb 16 20:37:16 matthew-: vnc to another box that is running your citrix client then Feb 16 20:37:22 konttori: what's your position at the Nokia? or are you just a nameless informant? ;) Feb 16 20:37:25 maybe it's just because of fedora that i'm fed up with Feb 16 20:37:41 evilrob: not quick/responsive enough Feb 16 20:37:43 technology has got nothing to do with clueless maintainers Feb 16 20:37:48 which fedora is full of Feb 16 20:38:07 well, most of them are red had maintainers Feb 16 20:38:12 part of them* Feb 16 20:38:40 i would really like to see gentoo like package manager Feb 16 20:38:43 I don't know if it's the "complexity" debian packaging or what that seems to keep debian maintainers on a higher level than some RPM based distributions Feb 16 20:38:44 yeah, like RH only hires geniuses and robots Feb 16 20:38:50 esspecialy that it's pretty much standard hardware Feb 16 20:39:10 so it could use binary packages Feb 16 20:39:15 mashiara: i cant see debian/ any more complex than .spec Feb 16 20:39:19 however all modifications would be easier Feb 16 20:39:21 everything is basically the same Feb 16 20:39:34 mashiara: I am under the impression that the typical rpm spec file "invites" people to reinvent the wheel. Feb 16 20:39:35 jacekowski, rebuilding everything for a month on the device, because some library changed? ;> Feb 16 20:39:36 what's not easy about vim debian/rules, say? Feb 16 20:39:49 http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=530500&postcount=1 <- finally a candidate that knows what he wants to do Feb 16 20:40:03 * RST38h screams "pkg_add!" and hides, quickly Feb 16 20:40:04 brb gotta have some pastis and ice rady Feb 16 20:40:05 ready Feb 16 20:40:07 Scelt: I'm heading OS & Middleware (including af) for Fremantle Feb 16 20:40:08 RST38h: ahah Feb 16 20:40:09 wolf^: as it's same hardware on all phones - it could be build somewhere on fast distcc cluster Feb 16 20:40:13 Stskeeps: he's got my vote! and my wallet! Feb 16 20:40:30 wolf^: and phone would have access to binpackages Feb 16 20:40:35 wolf^: and .ebuilds Feb 16 20:40:49 konttori: cool Feb 16 20:40:52 * Arif waits for more maemo 5 games Feb 16 20:40:57 jacekowski, but you know, official packages wouldn't be built with -O99 ;> Feb 16 20:41:05 wolf^: why? Feb 16 20:41:10 Arif: angry birds is an awesome game Feb 16 20:41:17 wolf^: official packages could be built with all optimisations Feb 16 20:41:19 "more" Feb 16 20:41:27 wolf^: as there are only 4 or 5 maemo devices Feb 16 20:41:34 I'm bored of that already Feb 16 20:41:35 ;( Feb 16 20:41:37 oh right, optimisations Feb 16 20:41:37 jacekowski, because the highest optimization level recognized by gcc is -O3 Feb 16 20:41:46 wolf^: that could be changed Feb 16 20:41:46 the other day I saw that some random package in the debian archive was built with "-O4" Feb 16 20:41:46 how could anyone forgot about it Feb 16 20:41:48 :( Feb 16 20:41:50 Arif: I know. just a btw info Feb 16 20:41:52 jacekowski, but some gentoo folks think that passing -O6 or -O9 makes the apps faster Feb 16 20:41:58 but it does Feb 16 20:42:01 seriously. Feb 16 20:42:09 Angry Birds is awesome Feb 16 20:42:12 I want the level pack Feb 16 20:42:14 wolf^: it's not about optimisations Feb 16 20:42:20 I think most of the new games will be published at the pr1.2 launch Feb 16 20:42:29 wolf^: it's about ease of making your own package or modifing existing one Feb 16 20:42:29 Arif: have you played thru the one found in maemo.org? Feb 16 20:42:33 jacekowski: i think there is a whole new world of OpenEmbedded for you Feb 16 20:42:38 jacekowski, I know, I'm just making fun of gentoo Feb 16 20:42:41 Scelt, no? Feb 16 20:42:49 wolf^: and IMO portage beats rpm and deb Feb 16 20:42:55 I only played the one from ovi store Feb 16 20:42:57 wolf^: in that matter Feb 16 20:42:58 Arif: a user made level pack of 10 levels. it was nice Feb 16 20:43:02 jacekowski, haven't used, no comment on that Feb 16 20:43:06 * Arif runs to the forums Feb 16 20:43:26 hmm Feb 16 20:43:33 wolf^: and as portage support prebuild binary packages it would be nice solution Feb 16 20:43:35 no one has created a GUI for the LED modding yet either! :P Feb 16 20:43:45 still no sign of the /203 and /205 update I see :< Feb 16 20:43:53 so people that want standard OS will use nokia provided .tar.bz2 packages Feb 16 20:44:23 and somebody who want to modify it would use other packages Feb 16 20:44:29 or build his own Feb 16 20:44:48 nid0: you need to contact your operator and ask them to release the update. Feb 16 20:44:50 and it would automaticaly solve dependencies what has to be rebuilt and what can be left alone Feb 16 20:44:56 it's not operator locked Feb 16 20:45:02 Arif: http://mobileinfo.nomadsnirvana.com/2010/02/02/angrybirds-custom-levels Feb 16 20:45:04 203 is the uk product code Feb 16 20:45:08 hmmm Feb 16 20:45:08 sold directly by nokia Feb 16 20:45:09 Nokia-N900-42-11:/home/user/MyDocs/Citrix# chmod +x setupwfc Feb 16 20:45:12 Nokia-N900-42-11:/home/user/MyDocs/Citrix# ls -la Feb 16 20:45:16 -rw-r--r-- 1 user root 19714 Feb 8 15:49 setupwfc Feb 16 20:45:16 * javispedro purchases 7000 brownie points Feb 16 20:45:25 number #! Feb 16 20:45:26 and then i get -sh: ./setupwfc: Permission denied Feb 16 20:45:28 hmm Feb 16 20:45:28 oneone! Feb 16 20:45:33 that'll keep me busy on the way to school I guess Feb 16 20:45:34 ah, well, country managers get to decide what goes out in their country (for country variants) Feb 16 20:45:35 why is it so retarded? Feb 16 20:45:37 jacekowski: why don't you just modify existing packages? Feb 16 20:45:48 right now Feb 16 20:45:50 nid0: so, contact nokia UK :D Feb 16 20:45:53 thresh: it's easier to modify .ebuild Feb 16 20:45:56 matthew-: try moving it to home instead of MyDocs. Feb 16 20:45:56 no Feb 16 20:45:59 thresh: than to modify .deb Feb 16 20:46:01 that's just not true Feb 16 20:46:06 matthew-: MyDocs is FAT, and noexec. Feb 16 20:46:14 anyway, I'm we'll rollout pr1.2 everywhere Feb 16 20:46:23 and you don't miss much with pr1.1.1 Feb 16 20:46:33 thresh: and if i want to use different version of library i would have to rebuild all other packages by hand Feb 16 20:46:39 thresh: while portage can do it for me Feb 16 20:46:40 konttori: any schedule for pr1.2? Feb 16 20:46:43 no you don't Feb 16 20:46:45 javispedro: ah, ok Feb 16 20:46:50 just make a new package with new library Feb 16 20:46:58 Scelt yes there is Feb 16 20:46:59 another version == binary incompatible version Feb 16 20:47:02 and rebuild whatever you need Feb 16 20:47:08 no, I cannot share it with you Feb 16 20:47:10 'binary incompatible version' means a new soname Feb 16 20:47:19 konttori, fingers crossed for another round of community beta testing. Feb 16 20:47:28 plan is to have one Feb 16 20:47:39 thresh: sometimes yes Feb 16 20:47:46 thresh: sometimes differences are bigger Feb 16 20:47:47 OK, 28MB free and this stupid update still complains about not enough free space. . . . Feb 16 20:47:51 konttori: but hey, sharing is caring! Feb 16 20:47:51 if it doesnt mean that, than the library is screwed Feb 16 20:47:54 and no one should use that Feb 16 20:47:59 GeneralAntilles: 44 MB needed Feb 16 20:48:00 GeneralAntilles - 42mb free ish needed Feb 16 20:48:00 GeneralAntilles: i needed 40+ Feb 16 20:48:09 thresh: everybody uses openssl Feb 16 20:48:11 and someone should probably hit the developer with something huge Feb 16 20:48:13 * GeneralAntilles bangs head on desk. Feb 16 20:48:21 yeah that's why ssl has sonames Feb 16 20:48:33 or you can hand-craft one, if you really need to Feb 16 20:48:36 General: Remove libqt4-core Feb 16 20:48:36 * Arif suggest GeneralAntilles doesn't poke around in devel :P Feb 16 20:48:47 GeneralAntilles: check backlog. I sent a nice shell script to free space. Feb 16 20:48:48 anyway assassin's creed time Feb 16 20:48:54 thresh: so you would end up with 2 different versions of openssl Feb 16 20:49:02 that was around 9 hours ago. Feb 16 20:49:06 General: In fact, you should try installing it in apt-get, because HAM fails with no diagnostics Feb 16 20:49:11 thresh: and you can't tell apt to rebuild it packages depending on it Feb 16 20:49:13 from my nokia me Feb 16 20:49:18 [default /usr/lib/ICAClient] Feb 16 20:49:18 s/fails with no diagnostics/sucks/ Feb 16 20:49:18 thresh: while you can tell portage to do it Feb 16 20:49:22 where should I install it?:D Feb 16 20:49:25 just /home ? Feb 16 20:49:29 konttori: The Qt conflict is undiagnosable unless you run apt-get Feb 16 20:49:29 i'm sure you can launch pbuilder or whatever to do the rebuild Feb 16 20:49:54 konttori: No record in the HAM log, no mention of the actual problem in the dialog box Feb 16 20:49:57 see! .deb sucks! Feb 16 20:50:03 * javispedro runs away Feb 16 20:50:13 RST38h: yeah, that sucks Feb 16 20:50:15 lots of runners today Feb 16 20:50:20 * ifreq reload the shotgun Feb 16 20:50:26 RST38h: what was the issue for you? Feb 16 20:50:32 konttori: libqt Feb 16 20:50:40 what about that? Feb 16 20:50:45 konttori: thresh has given the good advice Feb 16 20:50:52 i couldnt guess what was the issue, i've just ran apt-get dist-upgrade and it went fine Feb 16 20:50:59 is it a coincidence, or has the problem I was having with audio breakup under high load been fixed in todays update? Feb 16 20:51:06 however HAM was itching and wouldnt upgrade Feb 16 20:51:07 konttori: Before updating pr1.1.1, remove libqt4-core with apt-get Feb 16 20:51:29 RST38h: why? Feb 16 20:51:33 actually that was an advice to save up some space, not to fix conflicts =) Feb 16 20:51:33 fnordianslip, I get that under heavy I/O load. The swapfile and such wont be as fragmented right after reboot, so it wouldn't be as noticeable Feb 16 20:51:41 konttori: because otherwise HAM fails Feb 16 20:51:57 I thought libqt4-core depended on that maemo-pr package thing.. Feb 16 20:52:07 konttori: furthermore, I got to a state where pr1.1.1 did not show up in HAM at all, so I installed it with apt-get as well Feb 16 20:52:09 RST38h: only for you Feb 16 20:52:11 it's vice-versa actually Feb 16 20:52:15 konttori: me and thresh at least Feb 16 20:52:19 nooooo Feb 16 20:52:21 thresh, oops, yeah, that's what I meant Feb 16 20:52:22 it was not the issue for me Feb 16 20:52:32 hmm... did you guys have some app that had exact dependency?? Feb 16 20:52:34 konttori: but somehow I do not believe I am special: had a pretty standard qt4.5 install Feb 16 20:52:36 i never fully removed libqt4-core Feb 16 20:52:57 no, no exact dependencies afaik, or ANY dependencies on qt Feb 16 20:53:09 I had qtirreco for a while but removed it long ago Feb 16 20:53:22 I really wonder, as pr1.1.1 didn't even have qt updates Feb 16 20:53:27 RST38h: Feb 16 20:53:30 # apt-cache rdepends libqt4-core|grep fremantle Feb 16 20:53:30 mp-fremantle-generic-pr Feb 16 20:53:30 mp-fremantle-generic-pr Feb 16 20:53:30 ShadowJK: you may be right, but it seemed more related to cpu load than swapping for me, although that wasn't based on firm evidence. for example, modest checking for mail would cause lengthy audio dropouts. Feb 16 20:53:35 maemo-pr-whatever thingide depends on libqt4-core Feb 16 20:53:38 thinge Feb 16 20:53:46 this probably explains why RST didnt had it on HAM Feb 16 20:53:52 aha, and I had the wrong version? Feb 16 20:53:53 thresh: thats the meta-package Feb 16 20:53:57 ShadowJK: Noted mostly with panucci playing Feb 16 20:53:58 he removed m-f-g-p Feb 16 20:54:23 no, no i only removed libqt4-core Feb 16 20:54:39 if you removed that, you had to remove the meta-package as well Feb 16 20:54:45 fnordianslip, I don't think any of the CPU widgets make a distinction between busy CPU and CPU idle due to waiting on I/O to complete Feb 16 20:54:49 as that has strict dependency to the libqt4-core Feb 16 20:55:22 konttori: I really do not know what happened. Never removed the metapackage Feb 16 20:55:34 konttori: there was another curious thing though Feb 16 20:55:47 hello, I'm trying to install the new maemo update, but it says not enough memory. can anybody help me with that? Feb 16 20:56:00 konttori: As it offed libqt4-core, apt-get immediately upgraded wl1251 driver and qt4.5 Feb 16 20:56:06 konttori: to newer versions Feb 16 20:56:08 ShadowJK: ok. I'll keep that in mind when/if i notice the problem again Feb 16 20:56:26 konttori: and then I could not find the pr1.1.1 in ham and had to install it with apt-get as well Feb 16 20:56:51 well, metapackage is probably not installed in your syste Feb 16 20:57:00 some previous apt-get activity has removed it Feb 16 20:57:08 weird Feb 16 20:57:23 but it should be installed now, right? Feb 16 20:58:32 ShadowJK: oh well. the dropouts are back. Feb 16 20:59:41 RST38h: only if you manually installed the meta-package Feb 16 21:00:21 mp-fremantle-generic-pr Feb 16 21:00:58 I did Feb 16 21:01:05 ah, well, then you have it Feb 16 21:01:14 and pr1.2 will install nicely. Feb 16 21:01:22 * RST38h keeps fingers crossed Feb 16 21:01:36 atm, it looks like the space need is at 30 megs, but we are working on decreasing it still Feb 16 21:01:58 I mean how can there be not enough memory for downloading 16,2 MB? I don't get it... Feb 16 21:02:09 bennypr0fane, df -h | grep rootfs Feb 16 21:02:22 df -h / Feb 16 21:02:24 bennypr0fane: it's failure in application managers logic Feb 16 21:02:28 Scelt, even better :) Feb 16 21:02:32 When will come new update to maemo 5, anyone? Feb 16 21:02:35 shadowJK pardon? Feb 16 21:02:53 ShadowJK: :) just easier to write since you gotta get | all the away from sym-menu :P Feb 16 21:02:53 bennypr0fane, as in, how much free space do you have on / ? Feb 16 21:03:04 iPeter-: today did Feb 16 21:03:12 ah Feb 16 21:03:35 i enter that command in the console? Feb 16 21:03:40 Scelt: Bigger than 16.2mb? I did understand it is a update to get that bigger one, or? Feb 16 21:03:57 bennypr0fane, yeah, df -h / Feb 16 21:04:35 http://www.youtube.com/nokiaconversations#p/u/0/K7lHPX_iHKs - that's nice Feb 16 21:05:01 Used 190,5 available 33,2M Feb 16 21:05:13 bennypr0fane: 10 more megs, tru apt-get clean Feb 16 21:05:14 try Feb 16 21:05:19 bennypr0fane, do you have extras-testing or extras-devel enabled? Feb 16 21:05:44 yes Feb 16 21:06:01 both Feb 16 21:06:21 boy, i didn't think it was so crowded Feb 16 21:06:24 Go into application manager, application catalogue from the menu (you probably know where it is since you've added them), and uncheck the "Enabled" for both, making them kinda darker/greyed/blurred in the list Feb 16 21:06:35 That will free up some memory, extras-devel is gigantic Feb 16 21:06:51 ah, didn't know that Feb 16 21:07:10 They come with a warning for a reason ;-) Feb 16 21:07:23 also - rebooting may free disk Feb 16 21:07:32 or go to shell, and type sync Feb 16 21:07:45 as root Feb 16 21:07:50 what does that do? Feb 16 21:08:24 14M repository.maemo.org_extras-devel_dists_fremantle_free_binary-armel_Packages Feb 16 21:08:34 damn that's a lot Feb 16 21:08:39 ubifs frees disk only after some events. Feb 16 21:08:49 found in /var/lib/apt/lists Feb 16 21:08:50 sync and reboot are two, there are probably ohters Feb 16 21:09:27 how do i become root? Feb 16 21:09:50 type in root Feb 16 21:09:54 do i need to do anything firsT? Feb 16 21:09:55 after installing rootsh Feb 16 21:09:57 ok Feb 16 21:10:15 (rebooting is easier) Feb 16 21:11:06 gee, I thought the swap partition could help with this kind of problem Feb 16 21:11:29 ShadowJK done Feb 16 21:12:21 bennypr0fane, it's actually the operating system storage device... Badly behaved apps from extras-devel and extras-testing may consume too much space there, you've probably installed one of those.. Feb 16 21:12:39 like abiword or pokerth Feb 16 21:12:43 not just one, i'm afraid Feb 16 21:12:55 Or tmw! Bad bad bad. Feb 16 21:12:57 Scelt, somebody really needs to optify libboost Feb 16 21:13:05 more like 5-10 Feb 16 21:13:32 none of the ones you mentioned though Feb 16 21:13:32 GeneralAntilles: yeah. I found out that "libicu40" and checked out it's trace. damn it took much space from the wrong place Feb 16 21:14:05 GeneralAntilles: I mean all the libs pokerth needs. libboost etc. Feb 16 21:14:12 Hmm, that nick looks like Genitals... Feb 16 21:14:17 I'll be off to bed. Feb 16 21:14:18 :-D Feb 16 21:14:25 there you go, sir Feb 16 21:14:35 I'm starting to say silly stuff. :P Feb 16 21:16:16 have the cpp dev tools been optified? Feb 16 21:16:41 ok, now i have 51,4MB. will that suffice? Feb 16 21:16:58 yeh Feb 16 21:19:24 do you guys it will ever be safe to install debian apps to Maemo 5? As in moving them to Mameo extras? Feb 16 21:19:33 *do you think Feb 16 21:19:39 * GeneralAntilles sighs. Feb 16 21:19:41 So much spam Feb 16 21:19:50 93 new emails in my inbox in about 8 hours. Feb 16 21:20:23 GeneralAntilles oh, i'm glad you weren't talking to me Feb 16 21:21:03 hey guys, damn! there's a new episode of the big bang theory available Feb 16 21:23:19 seriously? i'ts March 1 now ? Feb 16 21:23:21 it's Feb 16 21:23:39 wat! Feb 16 21:23:43 is there a break too? Feb 16 21:23:46 yes Feb 16 21:23:49 and: is there a virtual keyboard layout in German that has arrow keys? I love the virtual keyboard, but i find it terrible hard to place the cursor right to correct a typo Feb 16 21:24:06 thresh: : Feb 16 21:24:09 thresh: :''( Feb 16 21:24:36 thresh: all the series on the break. wtf wrong with the usa Feb 16 21:25:11 Well, it's not a writer's strike this time. ;) Feb 16 21:25:36 did anyone ever figure out how to identify large & poorly optified packages? Feb 16 21:34:36 US shows never air ;P Feb 16 21:35:30 G'night all Feb 16 21:37:18 * Jaffa tries to catch up with the last 24 hours of tmo Feb 16 21:37:57 how can I install libXaw.so ? Feb 16 21:38:50 Jaffa, have fun reading the new firmware thread Feb 16 21:38:51 :p Feb 16 21:39:34 Jaffa, I gave up. Feb 16 21:41:56 hmm Feb 16 21:42:07 I need a microUSB cable for on the go Feb 16 21:42:13 will any cable work for the N900? Feb 16 21:43:34 Arif: yeah I just bought an off-the-shelf micro-usb cable for my n900 Feb 16 21:43:51 I think I'll just order one from DX Feb 16 21:43:52 :D Feb 16 21:46:21 what was up with miniUSB anyway? Why did they have to create a new connector type? Feb 16 21:46:38 different shape Feb 16 21:46:45 it's wider Feb 16 21:46:47 that's all Feb 16 21:46:56 it's way thinner? Feb 16 21:46:59 The components that wear out are supposed to be on the plug not the receptor, too Feb 16 21:47:07 oh sorry it is thinner- I was thinking of something else Feb 16 21:47:25 It's a conspiracy to sell more cables Feb 16 21:47:29 Mark my words Feb 16 21:47:34 I found one for $3.something! Feb 16 21:47:40 SystemParadox, it uses 50% less space. Feb 16 21:47:47 Arif: CA-146C? Feb 16 21:47:49 SystemParadox, it's also about 5 times more durable. Feb 16 21:47:53 no, some fake one Feb 16 21:47:57 Actually 5-10. Feb 16 21:48:11 Arif: genuine for under the 3 $ Feb 16 21:48:12 its about twice as durable as mini-usb, according to the standard Feb 16 21:48:15 http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.26313 Feb 16 21:48:18 and a little smaller Feb 16 21:48:24 You can get CA-101s on Amazon for a few bucks a piece. Feb 16 21:48:29 I got 5 for $10 shipped. Feb 16 21:48:57 Arif: sorry, wrong part. I meant CA-101 Feb 16 21:49:04 Arif: http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.23193 Feb 16 21:49:23 oo Feb 16 21:49:25 even cheaper! Feb 16 21:49:32 ye Feb 16 21:49:48 i wish konttori_work could ... waitaminute, he's not supposed to be working now Feb 16 21:50:08 could get a cable design change so there's less of a lever-arm on the usb port Feb 16 21:50:14 switzerland made a goal againts USA. well done boys! Feb 16 21:50:39 can you get that thing on the left side off? Feb 16 21:51:02 your left arm? Feb 16 21:51:06 yeah look at that cable Scelt. now imagine if the flexible wire went right up to the metal plug Feb 16 21:51:12 the cable :P Feb 16 21:51:16 the plastic thingy Feb 16 21:51:24 Arif, you could cut it off Feb 16 21:51:28 Arif, but it's useful Feb 16 21:51:32 Arif: brute force Feb 16 21:51:40 http://www.amazon.com/Nokia-CA101-Connectivity-Cable/dp/B000VIT0WK Feb 16 21:51:47 will this chan rename meego? Feb 16 21:52:02 Chiku, no Feb 16 21:52:04 See #meego Feb 16 21:52:11 List Price: $34.95 Feb 16 21:52:11 Price: $1.42 Feb 16 21:52:13 lol Feb 16 21:52:31 they should gall it glarpstrond, or quisquiptyuk Feb 16 21:52:45 femfroozleblat Feb 16 21:53:01 there are alot people on meego chan too Feb 16 21:53:01 <- marketing genius Feb 16 21:53:24 how much free rootfs does the new update need? details says 12.7, i have 33 but still it says not enough memory Feb 16 21:53:33 42+ Feb 16 21:53:33 42mb Feb 16 21:53:34 in the light of recent changes, where is Mer going to go? Feb 16 21:53:41 k Feb 16 21:54:10 ds3, Stskeeps seems to be thinking backport for N8x0 and N900 (if Nokia doesn't do it themselves). Feb 16 21:54:10 Chimnitz Feb 16 21:54:33 what is Mer? Feb 16 21:54:39 ~mer Feb 16 21:54:40 it has been said that mer is http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer, or on #mer Feb 16 21:54:45 Open Source distribution of Maemo, basically. Feb 16 21:54:49 Ubuntu + Maemo = Mer Feb 16 21:55:39 do you pronounce it "Mair" or "Mur" ? Feb 16 21:55:55 i think meer Feb 16 21:55:57 Depends on who you ask Feb 16 21:56:01 GA: but is Mer going to follow and assume Moblin features in the future or is Mer forking? Feb 16 21:56:09 I pronounce it mer Feb 16 21:56:18 Mair is probably more "accurate" Feb 16 21:56:43 meer like beer Feb 16 21:57:20 greenfly, I usually just Americanize it because I'm lazy Feb 16 21:57:41 yeah, that's more or less what I do for maemo Feb 16 21:58:31 Maemo I use the Finnish/Spanish pronunciation Feb 16 21:58:38 Since it clearly sounds better. Feb 16 21:58:43 ds3: encouraging people to join meego. bigger, similar goals or ability to help get things there. Feb 16 21:59:22 GAN900: Finnish is good ;) Feb 16 21:59:25 Stskeeps: but is there a clear path for ARM based machines or will Intel's influence preclude that? Feb 16 21:59:53 whoa the rules/control on the pr1.1.1 source package was even more broken than I though Feb 16 22:00:23 no install-kernel in install-arch Feb 16 22:00:44 * mashiara has been patching the rules file all evening Feb 16 22:00:47 ds3: what i do know is that its OBS based. ARM is very included in meego plans. Feb 16 22:00:50 in otherwords, is Mer going to survive as a viable path for us N800 folks or should we look elsewhere? Feb 16 22:01:25 ds3: i am still providing a path for n8x0. Feb 16 22:01:36 ds3: will give more info as it evolves. Feb 16 22:01:39 GAN900: ma as mo in monday, e as e in red and mo as mo in morning :-D easier pronouncing instructions? Feb 16 22:02:16 Stskeeps: It sounds like if Intel does try to push ARM out, Mer is likely to fork to keep ARM code alive? Feb 16 22:02:53 ds3: i doubt this will happen. Feb 16 22:03:03 ds3: as in intel doing that. Feb 16 22:03:05 why would you doubt that? Feb 16 22:03:15 its agains their best interest to do that Feb 16 22:03:17 marketing disaster. Feb 16 22:03:23 Atom and ARMv7 stuff are vying for the same area Feb 16 22:03:35 also, its a linx foundation projec.t Feb 16 22:03:45 u Feb 16 22:03:53 Like the core Linux folks give a hoot about non x86 Feb 16 22:04:37 Mah-emmo, then? Feb 16 22:04:47 Or more like Myamoh? Feb 16 22:05:08 we shall see I guess Feb 16 22:05:44 ds3: its better to participate and collaborate to prevent shit like that happening. oss allows forks to happen. but, too much ARM in nokia devices. Feb 16 22:06:24 ds3: and there are more partners and participants joining Feb 16 22:07:33 the real test would be when they start putting in code... will there be NEON and SSE versions or is it going to be just SSE Feb 16 22:07:46 talk is nice but action is what is important Feb 16 22:08:15 ds3: yes, and we'll see Feb 16 22:08:23 hmm Feb 16 22:09:01 why does it seem that NSU causes most of the update issues? Feb 16 22:09:22 back to finding a way to acquire a N900 ;) Feb 16 22:10:51 when I install frozen bubbles, there is missing package error Feb 16 22:10:57 * Arif sells ds3 his N900 for 750 Feb 16 22:11:19 perl-modules missing Feb 16 22:11:23 1) go to shop 2) hand over money 3) receive N900 Feb 16 22:11:32 shhh Feb 16 22:13:37 ds3, I don't see Nokia letting Intel push ARM out. Feb 16 22:14:02 yeah if they pushed ARM out they'd be out on a limb Feb 16 22:14:04 Even if x86 starts to become viable in the highest-end phones that still leaves a large segment uncovered for a long time yet. Feb 16 22:14:51 Gah, I want to poke my eyes out. Feb 16 22:15:11 why? Feb 16 22:15:18 GeneralAntilles: i think that intel would make arm compatible something Feb 16 22:15:21 and do you need any help? :o Feb 16 22:15:42 GA: why not? Intel wants to sell atoms, Nokia is a potential user of Atoms... Atoms have less royalities so it can be cheaper.... Feb 16 22:15:55 jacekowski, I'd love to see Intel back in the ARM picture. Feb 16 22:16:00 there isn't much royalities on ARM Feb 16 22:16:02 Isn't that why they make the XScale line? Feb 16 22:16:07 ds3, well, Nokia has a very long relationship with TI Feb 16 22:16:11 intel sold xscale to marvell Feb 16 22:16:20 GA: and TI used to make x86's :D Feb 16 22:16:32 it's only 1% of chip price Feb 16 22:16:37 ds3, I don't see them abandoning that for both technical and political reasons. Feb 16 22:16:37 intel still has parts of the xscale line Feb 16 22:16:47 Aah. Looks like Intel still have some vestigial content on their Website. Oh well. Feb 16 22:16:48 ds3, but, yeah, I guess we'll see. Feb 16 22:16:51 ds3, I'm optimistic though. Feb 16 22:17:00 and 1.2% on cortex Feb 16 22:17:08 so it's almost nothing compared to all other costs Feb 16 22:17:11 ds3, especially since every statement I've seen around MeeGo from people who have the credentials to make them says that both will be supported. Feb 16 22:17:24 i don't see why we want a chip that uses 100x more idle power Feb 16 22:17:35 grr! should have read that rules file more clearly... Feb 16 22:17:42 no install-modules either Feb 16 22:17:44 itdock: datasheet Feb 16 22:17:47 GA: It'd have more weight if that was AFTER the SoC Atom is available Feb 16 22:17:58 ds3, true. Feb 16 22:18:01 itdock: and show me where does it say that it uses 100x more power in idle Feb 16 22:18:11 jacekowski: 1% on cortex... but how many ARM cores are in say the OMAP? Feb 16 22:18:21 ds3, still, it's not even remotely close to the proper power consumption needed to slap it in an N900-sized device yet. Feb 16 22:18:26 ds3: 1% of chip price Feb 16 22:18:33 ds3, 1, I believe. Feb 16 22:18:35 so my new modules package did absolutely nothing, flashing kernel requiring said modules and surprise! device won't boot... Feb 16 22:18:38 ds3, OMAP3, anyway. Feb 16 22:18:40 ds3: and 1.2% for cortex based chips Feb 16 22:18:46 ds3, I think OMAP2 had an ARM11 and an ARM7. Feb 16 22:18:52 GA: the OMAP3 has multiple ARM cores... not all of which is exposed Feb 16 22:19:06 ds3, DSP is a TI core, PowerVR is ImagTech Feb 16 22:19:07 ds3: it's 1.2% of chip price Feb 16 22:19:16 ds3, the image processing stuff is TI, too, I believe. Feb 16 22:19:22 manufacturers in general use tiny arm cores here and there for housekeeping tasks Feb 16 22:19:27 * Arif blinks Feb 16 22:19:37 and n900 is cortex Feb 16 22:19:38 GA: there is at least an ARM9 buried in there Feb 16 22:19:39 what? Feb 16 22:19:40 :D Feb 16 22:20:20 read what does it say on back of it when you open it Feb 16 22:20:35 ARM Cortex-A8 | 32GB Feb 16 22:20:45 ARM Cortex-A8 | 32GB Designed in Finland Feb 16 22:21:21 ds3: you sure, sounds like OMAP2 to me Feb 16 22:21:41 lardman|home: IIRC, it came from a TI guy Feb 16 22:21:46 it's TI Feb 16 22:21:47 the other cores are not exposed Feb 16 22:21:56 there is a lot of TI stuff in this phone Feb 16 22:21:59 what the: "memory is read only until fixed. Try fixing it with a PC using the USB cable" - HUH? Feb 16 22:22:05 what does the arm7 core do? Feb 16 22:22:14 lardman|home, ARM7 on OMAP2 was the IVA. Feb 16 22:22:19 trying to find references to it Feb 16 22:22:20 the IVA in the OMAP2 was iirc an ARM7 or 9 Feb 16 22:22:36 IVA? Feb 16 22:22:46 Imaging Video Acceleration unit Feb 16 22:22:52 coprocessor/etc Feb 16 22:23:14 SystemParadox, connect to PC, run scandisk if you use windows, fsck if you use *nix.. Feb 16 22:23:55 on which partition? Feb 16 22:24:10 w00t, you're bringing down the whole tone of the Community Working Group page. :P Feb 16 22:24:11 SystemParadox: notworking one Feb 16 22:24:13 Arif: Belatedly - tmo. Feb 16 22:24:15 not working* Feb 16 22:24:19 there'll only be one presented, or two if you have a microsd card Feb 16 22:24:30 Jaffa, having a good time reading? :P Feb 16 22:24:30 is there a way to check what consumes power on a N810? The battery essentially went empty within 5 hours of mostly being idle - GPS, Network, and probably Bluetooth all off, top shows activities in the 4% range for the most active maemo-launcher process... What should I look for? Feb 16 22:24:49 Jaffa: have you considered pinned shortcuts at the top of Catorise? Feb 16 22:25:13 e.g. Phone, Media player, or whatever else a user might want Feb 16 22:25:27 pinned where? Feb 16 22:25:27 pinned short cuts at the top of Catorise ? Feb 16 22:25:35 i.e. on the top line Feb 16 22:25:48 not in the menu Feb 16 22:25:57 Erm? Feb 16 22:26:08 i.e., at the top of the category view? Feb 16 22:26:17 so you don't have to dig down into Media or Comms, you just click the shortcut to said apps straight away Feb 16 22:26:21 yeah Feb 16 22:26:24 * Arif just uses the 4 desktops to sort the apps/games however he wants Feb 16 22:26:48 I'd prefer to have info on my desktops, though I do keep a Phone shortcut there Feb 16 22:26:54 lardman|home, then I have to scroll to get to all the categories Feb 16 22:27:16 hmm Feb 16 22:27:21 yes Feb 16 22:27:21 so, after the upgrade to 1.1.1 it seems like my desktop is completely unresponsive from time to time, I think mainly whem somethings going on in the status area. anyone else noticing this? Feb 16 22:27:36 can the N900 export the 3G network using an AdHoc WiFi connection? Feb 16 22:27:48 GeneralAntilles, there is space for two icons, I'd love to have "Phone" and "Conversations" jammed in there Feb 16 22:27:49 (I'm expecting it to do NAT) Feb 16 22:28:00 ds3: there are two threads about this on talk Feb 16 22:28:02 ds3: probably yes Feb 16 22:28:06 I tap on stuff and nothing happens and then after a minute or so all of a sudden all the stuff opens up Feb 16 22:28:14 if it can support ad-hoc then i would say yes Feb 16 22:28:14 TomaszD: for me there's only space for one, and as the number of categories increases (perhaps) we'll need to scroll anyway Feb 16 22:28:19 is the search working on talk today? Feb 16 22:28:24 sd3: First JoikuSpot http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=526265#post526265 Feb 16 22:28:30 TomaszD, depends on which stuff you have installed. Feb 16 22:28:33 Shapeshifter: ssh-in to the tablet and run 'top' to see what is taking up cpu Feb 16 22:28:40 TomaszD, if you've got something from every single category then it's filled. Feb 16 22:28:42 ds3: second MobileHotspot http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=530664#post530664 Feb 16 22:28:55 ds3: the stock kernel does not have NAT Feb 16 22:29:04 lardman|home, ideally the number of categories wont be changing. Feb 16 22:29:08 ds3: Joiku people work around this in "interesting" way Feb 16 22:29:22 GeneralAntilles, ah, didn't know Feb 16 22:29:22 you can simulate NAT in userland Feb 16 22:29:26 ...exactly Feb 16 22:29:26 if you really want to Feb 16 22:29:28 ds3: "we" aka the MobileHotspot thread people are building custom kernel Feb 16 22:29:29 I looked at their GPL source code Feb 16 22:29:32 It was like three pages Feb 16 22:29:35 GeneralAntilles: still, having some direct access icons and being able to change the order of the others would suit me Feb 16 22:29:44 All it does is hook into netfilter or whatever and then they do everything in userspace Feb 16 22:29:47 anyone knows the point of Physio Rep Counter? Why do I have to push the start button every rep... Feb 16 22:29:48 jcekowski: yes but I'm not a networking programmer Feb 16 22:29:49 If I read it correctly Feb 16 22:29:52 or C programmer even Feb 16 22:29:56 lardman|home, function of having sortable menus, I guess. Feb 16 22:30:25 Lumpio: It's because all the real work is done in some userland blob which talks to the kernel via the trivial module they have Feb 16 22:30:34 which of course must be GPL since it's a kernel module Feb 16 22:31:02 Didn't I just say that Feb 16 22:31:13 mashiara: Nice Feb 16 22:31:21 mashiara: it doesn't have to be GPL Feb 16 22:31:31 mashiara: you can link non-gpl modules to kernel Feb 16 22:31:37 mashiara: I assume you guys have discounted setting up the N900 as a PAN server? Feb 16 22:31:42 mashiara: it will taint it but licensewise it's ok Feb 16 22:31:55 pupnik: Im not sure its a cpu related problem as really only the desktop freezes. task manager or e.g. launching a term with ctrl shift x still works fast and nicely Feb 16 22:32:08 mashiara: and kernel developers don't accept oops/panics from people running tainted kernels Feb 16 22:32:13 just the desktop widgets and buttons freeze for a minute Feb 16 22:32:21 jacekowski: true though and I was just coming to that oops part... Feb 16 22:32:33 what's the oops? Feb 16 22:32:40 it's almost like a panic Feb 16 22:32:44 but not so bad Feb 16 22:32:51 I know what an "oops" is Feb 16 22:32:59 it's recoverable error in kernel Feb 16 22:33:06 I am asking what is the text of it...i.e I am offering to do a quick analysis Feb 16 22:33:12 so something went wrong, system might be unstable Feb 16 22:33:20 the worst part about the N900 isn't anything related to the N900 - it's these godawful website designs Feb 16 22:33:25 but it wasn't bad enough for kernel panic Feb 16 22:33:25 we were talking about the module license tainting kernel Feb 16 22:33:43 and kernels devs not accepting oopses or panics if kernel is tainted Feb 16 22:33:46 well I think the email client is pretty rubbish myself Feb 16 22:33:55 are there any faster alternatives? Feb 16 22:33:57 no specific oops to debug now Feb 16 22:34:03 no Feb 16 22:34:05 ah Feb 16 22:34:10 i can debug my own oopses myself Feb 16 22:34:31 if you have a specific opps, we can look at it and deduce stuff. tainting does make it harder but... Feb 16 22:34:36 jo whats up Feb 16 22:35:24 i still have madwifi drivers causing panics Feb 16 22:35:29 ds3: as for PAN haven't looked at it much (in fact I don't really know the details of PAN either) Feb 16 22:35:33 but i never had time to fix it Feb 16 22:35:53 ds3: but doesn't routing the PAN stuff still require some sort of NAT ? Feb 16 22:35:58 mashiara: okay... guess I shouldn't even ask about DUN then :D Feb 16 22:36:06 lardman|home: If you edit /opt/catorise/menu you can put "_root" as the category and it'll go at the top-level. No support for multiple locations yet (i.e. "_root,utilities") though Feb 16 22:36:12 DUN works Feb 16 22:36:22 mashiara: yep... only reason I mentioned PAN is because BT should use less power then AdHoc Feb 16 22:36:32 DUN works? nice Feb 16 22:37:00 http://wiki.maemo.org/Fremantle_Unsupported_Bluetooth_profiles Feb 16 22:37:04 if the N900 is going to replace the treo, I need someway of using the 3G connection from a laptop Feb 16 22:37:20 ds3: cable + pcsuite Feb 16 22:37:29 jacekowski: uh.. no. Feb 16 22:37:30 ds3: and you can use dialup Feb 16 22:37:33 ds3: why? Feb 16 22:37:43 there is some package in maemo extras repo that enables the dun server and probably uses less naive implementation than the example there Feb 16 22:37:46 I do not want to carry more cables Feb 16 22:38:22 actually the "pc-suite" USB-mode works dor dialup on linux too Feb 16 22:38:41 Jaffa: ok, will have a look at that, thanks Feb 16 22:39:52 seriously, stop considerring "maeblin" as a name on t.m.o. :D Feb 16 22:40:02 I'm really tired to laugh :D Feb 16 22:40:09 wazd *g* Feb 16 22:40:34 figure since I am asking questions... is there java support? :D Feb 16 22:40:45 J2SE, that is Feb 16 22:40:49 ew, java Feb 16 22:40:52 * GeneralAntilles stabs ds3 in the eye. Feb 16 22:40:55 why would anyone want that Feb 16 22:40:57 ew, java Feb 16 22:41:00 So whats wrong with java? Feb 16 22:41:07 Right, mailing lists caught up with; tmo all read and just a couple of wiki.meego.com edits to make Feb 16 22:41:22 cuz one of the few GPS track viewers out there is written in java Feb 16 22:41:23 I'd rather have flash 10! Feb 16 22:41:29 * wazd 's downloading Queen discography in .flac . haba-haba Feb 16 22:41:38 if there was something else there besides the ever crashing Maemomapper.... Feb 16 22:41:55 * Arif transcodes the flac files to 24kbit mp3s Feb 16 22:42:04 maemomapper gets rather upset when there are about more then 72 continous hours of tracks :/ Feb 16 22:42:34 ds3, there are at least a half-dozen map and GPS-related software packages available. Feb 16 22:42:39 ds3, likely one or more can do what you need. Feb 16 22:42:55 you could also buy a map Feb 16 22:43:05 Arif: I just want to review where I went Feb 16 22:43:21 i.e. render GPX files locally.. and no, I do not want to render it on googlemaps Feb 16 22:43:43 MM is a great app but it chokes on large enough datasets Feb 16 22:43:50 wait for ovi maps to not suck? Feb 16 22:44:05 it isn't the map that I care about Feb 16 22:44:05 ds3, eCoach, Maep or similar may also work. Feb 16 22:44:18 ds3, though Maemo Mapper should by happier with more hardware resources to work with. Feb 16 22:44:48 ds3: j2se is supported through ejre but you're probably thinking about midlets written using the j2me stack... Feb 16 22:44:50 so try and see :D Feb 16 22:45:07 rom1dep: no, I am thinking about desktop java apps Feb 16 22:45:40 so try ejre... Feb 16 22:46:13 <-- trying to justify blowing 2.5x what was spent on the N800 :D Feb 16 22:46:50 ds3, do it. Feb 16 22:46:53 ds3, changed my life. Feb 16 22:46:59 args, now I gotta go to sleep the PR1.1.1 kernel source package is driving me crazt Feb 16 22:47:10 GA: changed? as in you now live in a cardboard box under a freeway? :D Feb 16 22:47:16 ds3, just buy it from somewhere with a good return policy if you're worried. Feb 16 22:47:28 ds3, admittedly I'm biased since I got a proto, but still. Feb 16 22:47:40 GA: it is the 2.5x... electronics is suppose to get cheaper not blow up by 2.5x Feb 16 22:47:46 It's the best damn mobile device I've ever used. Feb 16 22:48:02 ds3, N800 was 1+ year after release Feb 16 22:48:11 Give it another 8 months and the N900 will be super cheap too. Feb 16 22:48:26 there is just a whole list of concerns and quite a few of them are likely to kick in about after 1 year of use :/ Feb 16 22:48:48 * lardman|home is feeling all C++'d out Feb 16 22:48:51 offscreen apps are probably eye-candy but coded with feets Oo Feb 16 22:48:55 like lack of viable USB host, lack of full size SD slots, longevitiy of the power connector Feb 16 22:49:07 * rom1dep is amazed by cpu consumption Feb 16 22:49:29 2.5x would be fine if it is as robust and as useful as the N800 Feb 16 22:49:46 the connector itself has excellent life expectancy, especially as it will see limited use once it detached from the n900 :D Feb 16 22:50:01 hahahaha Feb 16 22:50:06 I was reading about that yesterday Feb 16 22:51:28 mashiara: there is no PR1.1.1 kernel upgrade!? Feb 16 22:51:43 any Flash gurus in here? Feb 16 22:52:03 memory, UI, or raincoat related flash? :D Feb 16 22:52:23 Adobe one :) Feb 16 22:52:24 bonus points if you know all 3? Feb 16 22:52:38 raincoat? Feb 16 22:52:44 not pictures? Feb 16 22:52:44 flashing Feb 16 22:52:52 ah, another one Feb 16 22:52:56 heh Feb 16 22:52:59 yeahyeah, camera too Feb 16 22:53:17 and superhero Feb 16 22:53:21 so what's the community reaction to mEEgO? Feb 16 22:53:43 corecode: I'm not seeing any bad in this name Feb 16 22:53:49 seriously Feb 16 22:54:13 ['migou]-what's wrong with it? Feb 16 22:54:25 nono, no problem with the name Feb 16 22:54:44 nah, pronounced Finnish as maemo. Feb 16 22:54:48 i'm just wondering, since the technical and social foundation seems to change Feb 16 22:54:50 [meeko] Feb 16 22:54:53 corecode: community nmostly discuss the name :D Feb 16 22:55:01 tibetans name for meego Feb 16 22:55:02 ah, who cares Feb 16 22:55:09 s/meego/big foot/ Feb 16 22:55:10 marmoute meant: tibetans name for big foot Feb 16 22:55:30 wow what a useless bot :) Feb 16 22:56:08 lol Feb 16 22:56:17 so, any Adobe Flash gurus in here? :P Feb 16 22:56:19 it does make you curious for how well it escapes regexes though Feb 16 22:56:24 wazd: don't forget the discussion of deb vs rpm ;) Feb 16 22:56:26 ~burn corecode Feb 16 22:56:27 * infobot pours gasoline all over corecode, ignites the fire, and then enjoys some toasty marshmallows with the glorious blaze Feb 16 22:56:48 Oo Feb 16 22:56:49 lardman|home: I thought it was just spam :D Feb 16 22:57:02 well there is a lot of it! Feb 16 22:57:03 corecode: who's useless now? :D Feb 16 22:57:15 next thing you know, we'll find out the default meego editor is emacs Feb 16 22:57:33 nah, surely vi vs vim Feb 16 22:57:37 then the holy war circle will be complete Feb 16 22:57:39 MY GOD Feb 16 22:57:50 WORLD WILL COLLAPSE Feb 16 22:58:13 GeneralAntilles: i aim to please Feb 16 22:58:30 ewwwwwwwwwwwwww vim Feb 16 22:58:32 nite all, sweet dreams Feb 16 22:58:33 ;) Feb 16 22:58:33 acidjazz: that's scheduled for 2012 Feb 16 22:58:51 + trem Feb 16 22:58:52 hey, i was serious Feb 16 22:58:53 moblin = dogs, maemo = cats, meego = living together Feb 16 22:59:06 mass hysteria Feb 16 22:59:19 meego =eating each other :-) Feb 16 22:59:23 will there be people re-packaging meego into deb? will there be people continuing maemo Feb 16 22:59:26 wtc Feb 16 22:59:29 etc* Feb 16 22:59:46 ipk's! Feb 16 22:59:47 corecode: Harmattan will be deb Feb 16 23:00:05 as maemo Feb 16 23:00:09 not as meego Feb 16 23:00:28 corecode: are you typing on your n900 or what? :) Feb 16 23:00:36 no, why? Feb 16 23:00:53 corecode: Ubuntu netbook remix is already Moblin as deb Feb 16 23:01:04 aha Feb 16 23:01:11 see, it gets more confusing Feb 16 23:01:18 so what is moblin then? Feb 16 23:01:20 Just kidding: wtc, etc, typical small keyboard typos. Feb 16 23:01:37 or rather, meego Feb 16 23:02:06 autoguy: big fingers :) Feb 16 23:02:17 Aha! Feb 16 23:02:20 t-tan: UNR isn't based on Moblin. Feb 16 23:02:28 more confusion! Feb 16 23:02:30 :D Feb 16 23:02:46 There are Moblin packages for Ubuntu, but it's not UNR Feb 16 23:03:06 Isn't Moblin just linux with a GTK/Clutter interface optimized for a small screen? Feb 16 23:03:23 Then there's the GENIVI project for in-car infotainment, based on Moblin Feb 16 23:03:41 And Meego is targeting automotive too, or so they claim Feb 16 23:03:42 autoguy: Depends if you mean Moblin 1 or Moblin 2 Feb 16 23:03:53 moblin desktop isn't moblin the project Feb 16 23:03:54 It's all the same stuff, just rebranding ffs Feb 16 23:03:58 autoguy: Moblin 2 (the current one) has a custom Gtk+ UI Feb 16 23:04:24 Jaffa: difference? which one did I mean? :) Feb 16 23:05:15 ok. anyway some components are switched in and out but I can't see a lot of difference... Feb 16 23:05:43 And *everyone* is moving to Qt or? Feb 16 23:05:50 autoguy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okfHSyixLy4 Feb 16 23:06:00 thanks, watching Feb 16 23:06:20 autoguy: And http://arstechnica.com/open-source/reviews/2009/05/hands-on-intel-brings-rich-ui-to-moblin-linux-platform.ars Feb 16 23:06:46 Yeah that's the UI I was thinking of Feb 16 23:07:03 The video makes me sea sick Feb 16 23:07:14 Is there some way to add a icon what is a folder to put there icons? Can you cuztoimize your app menu? Feb 16 23:07:18 on nokia N900, maemo Feb 16 23:07:20 Right, that's not UNR. Although there is a Ubuntu Moblin Remix ;-) Feb 16 23:07:44 of course! Feb 16 23:07:54 iPeter-: http://maemo.org/downloads/product/Maemo5/catorise/ Feb 16 23:08:12 Jaffa: Thanks. Feb 16 23:08:14 autoguy: I'm using Ubuntu *Netbook* Remix right now, and it's very shiny - but a lot closer to "normal" GNOME than Moblin Feb 16 23:08:46 Jaffa: yes, I mixed it up Feb 16 23:08:51 Presenting the Mer Maemo Fedora Linux Mint remix project! I'll let you know when I'm done. Feb 16 23:09:05 For toasters. Feb 16 23:09:16 * rom1dep uses kde4.4 on a netbook and doesn't see a need for a *overkill remix of the summer* ubuntu version... Feb 16 23:09:18 autoguy: But what about if I was a waffle man? Feb 16 23:09:28 Maemo + Moblin: Will it blend? Feb 16 23:09:32 heh Feb 16 23:09:40 Well it's all configurable you see Feb 16 23:10:32 Is Firefox better than MicroB, on Nokia N900, maemo 5? Feb 16 23:10:40 iPeter-: no Feb 16 23:11:14 the current firefox is bad compared to MicroB Feb 16 23:11:16 Anything is better than MicroB Feb 16 23:11:23 rom1dep: Yeah i tought so. Feb 16 23:11:41 Personally I like Midori but granted haven't tried fennec yet Feb 16 23:12:23 Is those apps whats on maemo.org/download on repos in App manager Feb 16 23:12:31 What's "the current firefox" - the fennec that was release some week(s) ago? Feb 16 23:12:39 microB is the great ff + hildonised + made fingerfriendly... fennec is a 2nd hand firefox lacking of features and not that fun :) Feb 16 23:12:58 autoguy yes Feb 16 23:13:09 I wonder how a N900 would blend: http://www.blendtec.com/willitblend/videos.aspx?video=iphone Feb 16 23:13:22 OT: http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap100215.html Cassini Spacecraft Crosses Saturn's Ring Plane Feb 16 23:13:35 autoguy: i guess firefox is the prod name, confusing he.. Feb 16 23:13:38 http://www.watchitshred.com/ > blendtec Feb 16 23:14:15 http://www.ssiworld.com/watch/hard_drives.htm mmmm Feb 16 23:14:25 I want netfront instead Feb 16 23:14:30 woglinde, rom1dep: OK, I guess I have to try it anyway. What I like about the microB alternative is better font wrapping on a lot of pages. If you zoom in on microB, you need to scroll left and right a lot of times. Feb 16 23:14:38 iPeter-: you might have third party repos to activate Feb 16 23:14:47 ds3: how is netfront nowadays, is it keeping up with the times? Feb 16 23:15:03 ds3: from where do you have netfront experience? Feb 16 23:15:06 rom1dep: Like what repos, give urls + info in query, please (: Feb 16 23:15:23 autoguy they just annouced new release yesterday Feb 16 23:15:32 interesting Feb 16 23:15:37 autoguy: it works... it is snappy Feb 16 23:15:53 iPeter-: just go to maemo.org and search for "repository" what I did the 1st day :) Feb 16 23:16:56 s/font/text/ Feb 16 23:17:21 bot doesn't search that far back huh? :) Feb 16 23:17:35 rom1dep: Cant find anything ): Feb 16 23:17:38 is someone went depth with ejre ? like running swing apps within hildon and overriding the "headless" state Feb 16 23:18:42 iPeter-: http://wiki.maemo.org/Main_Page Feb 16 23:21:14 is there a way to check what consumes power on a N810? The battery essentially went empty within 5 hours of mostly being idle - GPS, Network, and probably Bluetooth all off, top shows activities in the 4% range for the most active maemo-launcher process... What should I look for? Feb 16 23:21:42 CutMeOwnThroat: top ? powertop ? Feb 16 23:23:27 powertop isn't available on N810 Feb 16 23:23:37 right... just noticed that Feb 16 23:24:12 and top doesn't show much.. as I said.. 4% or so on the #1 process Feb 16 23:24:56 CutMeOwnThroat: was this pre-update? Feb 16 23:25:14 ' Feb 16 23:25:20 what do you mean? Feb 16 23:25:23 was that power-drain bug to do with the wifi looking like it was off, but not actually being? Feb 16 23:25:31 CutMeOwnThroat: an update was released today Feb 16 23:25:37 oh Feb 16 23:25:39 oh shit Feb 16 23:25:41 sorry Feb 16 23:25:44 N810 Feb 16 23:25:47 :) Feb 16 23:25:48 ignore me Feb 16 23:25:55 \\ignore lardman|home Feb 16 23:25:58 * lardman|home thinks he should just go to bed Feb 16 23:26:14 sX\\X//X Feb 16 23:26:44 CutMeOwnThroat: did someone write a script/cron job that recorded the top output at intervals? Feb 16 23:26:53 even 4% cpu is quite a lot Feb 16 23:27:16 I know there was one written to track battery percentage Feb 16 23:27:49 but it was maemo-launcher which had the 4% Feb 16 23:27:56 CutMeOwnThroat: from memory, the browser would kill the battery Feb 16 23:28:10 yeah maemo-launcher is a wrapper though I think isn't it? Feb 16 23:28:32 so which app was it actually? Feb 16 23:28:35 I must admit... not sure what its exact function is... the name certainly suggests so Feb 16 23:28:47 but the app would have its own top entry Feb 16 23:28:57 yeah Feb 16 23:29:21 guess I could compile powertop if its really useful Feb 16 23:29:53 well if you're looking at top in xterm, that 4% may very well be the x-terminal... Feb 16 23:29:55 ah HA Feb 16 23:30:07 I think I can setup DUN w/o NAT and still have it work as if there was NAT Feb 16 23:30:13 The kernel does not support powertop anyway Feb 16 23:30:27 this used to happen from time to time, but normally a reboot would fix it (I suspect something like gps was running and only not shown in the displays) Feb 16 23:32:00 on previous occasions at least once I saw the CPU power up (err. "un-throttle") to full power every few seconds... doesn't seem to do this now Feb 16 23:33:47 ShadowJK, what kernel is needed? The debian package at least doesn't show any dependency on a certain kernel version Feb 16 23:33:55 which might be an oversight Feb 16 23:34:28 Even if it had been available on the N810 kernel, it's not compiled with it Feb 16 23:34:33 I think it turned up later anyway Feb 16 23:34:54 probably... diablo is based on etch, iirc Feb 16 23:35:17 no iotop either Feb 16 23:36:16 Fun, i bricked my N900 ): Feb 16 23:36:26 fun, i got bloomberg working buahah Feb 16 23:36:28 It's very hard to *brick* it Feb 16 23:36:29 Changed boot video, and now i got only black screen. Feb 16 23:36:45 iPeter-: Unlikely. You probably need to reflash (or enable RD mode, disable the lifeguard reset and SSH in to fix the problem) Feb 16 23:36:51 ShadowJK: cover with Portland cement, leave to dry :) Feb 16 23:37:03 that should work! Feb 16 23:37:31 Jaffa: Do you have time to help? Feb 16 23:38:10 lardman|home, ... except, possibly, if you're in Cologne ... Feb 16 23:38:53 Cologne cement? Feb 16 23:38:53 iPeter-: Going to bed, I'm afraid. Feb 16 23:39:11 Anyone looked at the "Nokia audio enhancements" (iirc) section in pa config... Feb 16 23:39:13 iPeter-: I'm sure if you tell the group someone will suggest something Feb 16 23:39:34 I did reboot again, it worked. Feb 16 23:39:35 somebody probably stole the cement, so it's mostly covered in sand... ( http://www.thelocal.de/national/20100213-25235.html ) Feb 16 23:40:04 oh eek, I got a bunch of "Operation failed" banners doing upgrade to 1.1.1. 1) What operation failed? 2) Why is it still continuing.. or is it just stuck on the status bar? Feb 16 23:40:09 that's the problem with having yearly floods! Feb 16 23:40:11 D: Feb 16 23:40:24 oh the progress bar inched ahead :D Feb 16 23:40:24 ShadowJK: I got that too, no idea why Feb 16 23:42:15 Something didnt go so well, i changed my boot screen, and 1st boot, i got only black screen. 2nd boot, it laggs like hell. Feb 16 23:43:23 anyone tried building an email client using tinymail? Feb 16 23:43:24 top Feb 16 23:43:31 hey SpeedEvil Feb 16 23:43:34 check it's not doing silly shit like trackerd often does. Feb 16 23:43:35 yay Feb 16 23:43:39 nope. Feb 16 23:43:46 * SpeedEvil doesn't really do email. Feb 16 23:43:50 at least not on the n900 Feb 16 23:44:10 sgx_mirs uses 10% of cpu Feb 16 23:44:13 oh no, wasn't aimed at you specifically, was just saying hi Feb 16 23:44:35 iPeter-: was it an image, or a video? Feb 16 23:44:42 iPeter-: also check thumbnailerd (or whatever it's called) Feb 16 23:45:05 I have vague recollections of malformatted videos that the hardware can't understand doing bad shit. Feb 16 23:45:06 Hmph? Feb 16 23:45:33 switching it off again, lets look if it helps :I Feb 16 23:45:49 Here's a new way to track Talk: Feb 16 23:46:01 Pick your top 10 or 20 favorite users and only see threads they've participated in. :D Feb 16 23:47:11 ShadowJK, you're right... powertop's been in debian only from lenny on, all its build-deps can be satisfied with etch-packages, though Feb 16 23:47:12 Well i booted 3rd time, now it seems to work. Feb 16 23:47:13 Odd. Feb 16 23:47:55 debian isn't N810-aware Feb 16 23:50:01 sure you can build it in scratchbox or even on the device, but it wont do anything useful Feb 16 23:50:16 no... but I thought diabolo package versions should be the same as in etch Feb 16 23:50:17 hey guys Feb 16 23:50:21 can i ask for a HUGE favour Feb 16 23:50:31 who here has an n900? Feb 16 23:50:56 yeah, he should send me one, too! :-P Feb 16 23:51:34 CutMeOwnThroat: they are not Feb 16 23:51:35 LostyJai: What youre asking for? Feb 16 23:51:43 i seemed to have accidently deleted my "/usr/share/themes/alpha" and "/user/share/themes/beta" folders... can someone upload them for me? Feb 16 23:51:51 currently my n900 looks like windows 95 Feb 16 23:51:59 mhm .. anyone tried to get the sdk working on a chroot on the device? Feb 16 23:52:11 CutMeOwnThroat: in general installing debian packages in Maemo isn't guaranteed to work or do anything sensible.. Feb 16 23:52:19 Sounds fun ^^ Feb 16 23:52:30 >< Feb 16 23:52:37 i need those theme folders back Feb 16 23:52:41 i can't use my n900! Feb 16 23:52:51 time for reflash? :) Feb 16 23:53:01 can someone just upload them for me =( Feb 16 23:53:06 ShadowJK, that's not what I meant... was just doing a rough check if I should expect problems building Feb 16 23:53:12 I bet someone will upload it, i self dont have any place where to upload and i have to go sleep, actually i shoulve been sleeping now 2hours ago. Feb 16 23:53:22 =( Feb 16 23:53:24 alright, nite Feb 16 23:53:26 thanks Feb 16 23:53:43 Sorry, nights. Feb 16 23:53:46 can upload to http://www.4filehosting.com/ or http://www.sendspace.com/ Feb 16 23:53:49 LostyJai: lemme check .. but i am not really in moof for that Feb 16 23:54:02 if u don't want to, that's fine Feb 16 23:54:41 So, I've written somethin in C, gtk and gstreamer and for some reason the gst bit stopped working after the update to 1.1.1 I'm not sure why. I had to update the rom using flasher instead of on-the-fly, and installed most of the stuff I had before through the auto-reinstall-thingy Feb 16 23:55:46 "I’ve been working at a small company that was basically doing video codecs for TI. The “DSP core” in that little TI chip can easily decode 1080p, at nowhere near 100% (it can do far more, in fact it can decode h264 and reencode as, say mpeg2 without getting to 100% usage)" Feb 16 23:55:53 <3 rcadden Feb 16 23:55:55 He's so awesom. Feb 16 23:55:58 http://www.maemo-guru.com/2010/02/with-meego-i-go/ Feb 16 23:56:07 pupnik yeah I loved this comment Feb 16 23:56:12 it's basically souphttpsrc ! decodebin ! ffmpegcolorspace ! videoxscale ! ximagesink. don't see why any of this should stop working. Feb 16 23:56:20 on the theora dsp blog site Feb 16 23:56:48 it would sure be nice to be smart Feb 16 23:57:23 GeneralAntilles: is that sarcasm? Feb 16 23:57:28 GeneralAntilles: I hope it is. :P Feb 16 23:57:31 well... if it doesn't work out, we can always settle for being smartasses Feb 16 23:57:54 pupnik did I tell moblin now ships the iegd for poulsbo? Feb 16 23:58:02 * w00t stops typing today before his fingers bleed Feb 16 23:58:34 the whatnow woglinde ? Feb 16 23:58:59 LostyJai: still need alpha and beta? Feb 16 23:59:19 w00t, yes, sarcasm. Feb 16 23:59:22 uh, and how do I get gst-launch onto my n900 anyway? >.> I'm surprised it's not there Feb 16 23:59:29 and I can't find it through apt-cache Feb 16 23:59:31 w00t, I have a long-standing bad relationship with that fellow. Feb 16 23:59:32 gst-tools Feb 16 23:59:37 lardman|home: thanks! Feb 16 23:59:38 or gstreamer-tools Feb 16 23:59:45 GeneralAntilles: let me find my reaction on another blog recycling that garbage Feb 16 23:59:46 pupnik, unfortunately the IVA part of it isn't documented :) Feb 16 23:59:59 That is all blown totally out of proportion and poorly researched, as much as I’d expect from a site like that frankly. Feb 17 00:00:15 w00t, he's an idiot, quite frankly. Feb 17 00:00:18 *g* Feb 17 00:00:23 pupnik powervr kern in poulsbo is nearly the same as in omap3550 Feb 17 00:00:39 errr Feb 17 00:00:45 GeneralAntilles: yeah, I pretty much got an immediate reaction of "and nothing of value was lost" Feb 17 00:00:50 just got notice of a new maemo 5 update on my N900 Feb 17 00:00:51 w00t, it's not often that an avatar will tell you everything you need to know about a person. Feb 17 00:00:53 However, http://userserve-ak.last.fm/serve/126/918911.jpg Feb 17 00:01:03 hahah. Feb 17 00:01:07 but it says that to update I need to use the PC update application Feb 17 00:01:13 ohhh so poulsbo is something intel made, that might get us better / neater dsp stuff in meego woglinde ? Feb 17 00:01:21 how should I update? Feb 17 00:01:21 lardman|home: YES YES I DO!!! Feb 17 00:01:23 which I don't have, I think Feb 17 00:01:26 I use ubuntu linux Feb 17 00:01:39 LostyJai: oh good, was about to hit the sack thinking you'd left Feb 17 00:01:41 can someone tell me what to do? Feb 17 00:01:57 no no i'm here Feb 17 00:01:57 >< Feb 17 00:02:01 :) Feb 17 00:02:04 i'll be here for another 7 hours Feb 17 00:02:05 =( Feb 17 00:02:07 ok, hang on a min or two Feb 17 00:02:07 stupid work Feb 17 00:02:10 sure thing man Feb 17 00:02:14 REALLY REALLY APPRECIATE IT!!!!! Feb 17 00:02:29 .. Feb 17 00:02:42 pupnik: I thought poulsbo still needs closed drivers? Feb 17 00:02:44 ptl: there's probably a conflict with something you've installed from extras-devel or extras-testing Feb 17 00:02:54 ~curse python-dbus Feb 17 00:02:55 May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, python-dbus ! Feb 17 00:03:13 LostyJai: i have to setup my ssh key from the device on the server to upload it Feb 17 00:03:20 ShadowJK: how do I discover what? Feb 17 00:03:24 ?? Feb 17 00:03:31 cehteh: don't worry dude, lardman is doing it for me Feb 17 00:03:31 thanks Feb 17 00:03:34 <3 HTML5 YouTube Feb 17 00:03:43 h.264 it may be, but it aint Flash! Feb 17 00:03:48 ptl: btw the flashing software for linux is available at tablets-dev.nokia.com, as well as firmware images. it's not an update anymore, it wipes / Feb 17 00:03:51 html5 youtube? where!? Feb 17 00:04:00 range: i just heard of paulsbro for the first time right now bro Feb 17 00:04:10 "a multipart demuxer plugin is required to play this stream but not installed" :( wth Feb 17 00:04:15 LostyJai, ther's an opt-in beta. Feb 17 00:04:16 ok then is stop Feb 17 00:04:21 LostyJai, Google should take you to the opt-in page. Feb 17 00:04:25 pupnik hm intressting Feb 17 00:04:40 ptl: probably apt-get upgrade or apt-get dist-upgrade in xterm would help to narrow it down. I think there's even a wiki page with instructions Feb 17 00:04:42 how much free space do I need for upgrade? Feb 17 00:04:56 ShadowJK: know the URL? Feb 17 00:05:06 nope :( Feb 17 00:05:15 Aranel: someone said 45M Feb 17 00:05:24 Anybody have any details on the new Ovi paid implementation, by the way? Feb 17 00:05:36 thanks Feb 17 00:06:10 Thanks ShadowJK :) Feb 17 00:06:57 Seeking on YouTube videos has never worked reliably for me until now. Feb 17 00:07:28 I find my strategy of seeking to avoid works. Feb 17 00:08:05 SpeedEvil, *g* Feb 17 00:08:29 seriously, no Flash pros here? :( Feb 17 00:08:43 ShadowJK: no conflicts :/ Feb 17 00:09:04 ptl: how much free space? df -h / Feb 17 00:09:58 40.6M on /, 1.7 G on /home, 24.1 G in /home/user/MyDocs Feb 17 00:10:27 how can i inststall mozilla weave into microb 3.0? Feb 17 00:10:27 so curious Feb 17 00:10:33 how do you switch to html5 player instead of flash Feb 17 00:10:56 go to youtube.com/html5 and choose html 5 Feb 17 00:11:12 Diddn't work for me Feb 17 00:11:18 don't see the option Feb 17 00:11:18 that is - it worked - but no codecs Feb 17 00:11:31 anyone found a changelog for 1.1.1? Feb 17 00:11:49 cehteh, it's on the wiki, just like PR1.1 Feb 17 00:11:58 http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_5/PR1.1.1 Feb 17 00:12:05 thanks Feb 17 00:12:17 http://wiki.maemo.org/OTA_to_PR1.1_troubleshooting Feb 17 00:12:22 what causes the rootfs to fill up Feb 17 00:12:40 Logs from the front camera when you're naked. Feb 17 00:12:55 installing crap from extras-devel or extras-testing for example Feb 17 00:12:58 More seriously - installing stuff Feb 17 00:13:05 ok Feb 17 00:13:14 And some application problems. Feb 17 00:13:27 is the memory used summary accurate in the app manager? Feb 17 00:13:29 ptl: ioquake? Feb 17 00:13:57 dracflamloc: it's not helpful at all in figuring out what uses sopace on / Feb 17 00:14:03 ah Feb 17 00:14:11 so is there anything helpful there? Feb 17 00:14:14 im at 90% Feb 17 00:14:18 and it wont let me upgrade Feb 17 00:14:44 dracflamloc: what does it say? Feb 17 00:15:08 not enough memory in target location Feb 17 00:15:15 Disable extras-devel and extras-testing in app manager, they consume about 18M just to have enabled iirc Feb 17 00:15:57 ah Feb 17 00:16:10 ShadowJK: yes, I have it installed. Should I uninstall it? Feb 17 00:16:23 and thanks for the URL Feb 17 00:16:25 I'll check Feb 17 00:16:43 how much total space is in rootfs? Feb 17 00:16:47 ptl: says you need to unistall it Feb 17 00:16:59 dracflamloc: 256M Feb 17 00:17:07 Little less Feb 17 00:17:15 Minus kernel and bootloader Feb 17 00:17:31 so whats a 'good' amount to have free? Feb 17 00:18:21 lemme try it Feb 17 00:18:22 IIRC it starts at 50M or so free Feb 17 00:18:32 any forum moderator here? Feb 17 00:18:47 Speedevil: nah I had almost 62M free earlier today Feb 17 00:18:58 only disabling some repos without uninstalling anything sovled it for me btw Feb 17 00:19:02 still no bloody update for people in the UK! Feb 17 00:19:17 Now at 57.9M free after 1.1.1 upgrade Feb 17 00:19:29 mereI: there's nothign exciting about the update Feb 17 00:19:37 matthew-: ^ Feb 17 00:19:43 bugfixes realted to battery are always exciting ;) Feb 17 00:19:45 get it tomorrow or something Feb 17 00:20:06 matthew-, if you asking about forum moderators and the firmware upgrade are somehow related I'll be depressed Feb 17 00:20:31 ShadowJK: No, i want to request a change of title of my post on forum Feb 17 00:20:46 that was it, thanks, ShadowJK :) Feb 17 00:20:55 hey, how do you get the new pr 1.1.1 upgrade for maemo5? Feb 17 00:21:01 ShadowJK: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=531063 this one, get rid of the natively. Feb 17 00:21:03 i ran an update, and it didn't show up? Feb 17 00:21:03 that's weird, a game encumbering an OS upgrade Feb 17 00:21:11 adalal: for me it did Feb 17 00:21:24 maybe you removed/disabled some repository? Feb 17 00:21:43 ptl: hm, i'll have a look again :S Feb 17 00:21:44 downloading 16.2 MB Feb 17 00:21:53 won't even make a security backup now Feb 17 00:21:59 ok so looks like i have 42mb free now Feb 17 00:22:01 night all Feb 17 00:22:02 anyone downloaded that freeciv game? Feb 17 00:22:06 because my device is brand new... and I have even customized it properly Feb 17 00:22:22 *haven't Feb 17 00:23:09 you could flash the new image then instead Feb 17 00:23:09 ptl: running a backup first i suppose Feb 17 00:23:32 adalal: no, as it is new, I am not running a backup Feb 17 00:23:37 there is no personal data yet on it Feb 17 00:23:39 i suppose Feb 17 00:24:30 I really really really really really reall really like my N900. I sincerely hope meego does not screw up. It would be very easy for them to do that. Feb 17 00:24:37 mhm ...the backup app is pluginable .. someone writing a dotfile backup would get some karma Feb 17 00:25:11 backup app? Feb 17 00:25:15 wait... Feb 17 00:25:20 what are the updates like? Feb 17 00:25:22 this buildin backup thingy Feb 17 00:25:44 any changes to that? Feb 17 00:25:48 updating... Feb 17 00:26:01 (holding breath) Feb 17 00:26:06 lol k Feb 17 00:27:08 meego is very close to portuguese 'meigo', which means something like 'gay'. People laughed hard on brazilian forums. Feb 17 00:27:23 cehteh: apps can ask for their dotfiles to be backed up Feb 17 00:27:30 few do so Feb 17 00:27:34 ptl: meego reminds me of lego Feb 17 00:27:37 rebooting device Feb 17 00:27:46 ShadowJK: is that noted in some configfile? Feb 17 00:27:52 (heart beating rapidly) Feb 17 00:27:55 dunno Feb 17 00:28:10 oh, the Nokia logo startup now has a progress bar Feb 17 00:28:11 nice Feb 17 00:28:11 :) Feb 17 00:28:22 lol Feb 17 00:28:28 for the update only I think Feb 17 00:28:34 yes Feb 17 00:28:36 ptl: that's just for the flashing phase Feb 17 00:28:37 although it spoils the suspense of looking at that bright blue nokia logo. Feb 17 00:28:49 timeless_mbp: oh, I didn't know, I thought it was just rebooting. Feb 17 00:28:54 if you used a 770 or n8x0 you'd be more familiar with it Feb 17 00:29:02 there are 3 or so different band colors Feb 17 00:29:08 dark blue, light blue, green Feb 17 00:29:18 for the 770 iirc dark blue was the standard boot progress Feb 17 00:29:24 and iirc green is generally the flashing color Feb 17 00:29:40 iirc the dark blue was replaced by light blue w/ a later version Feb 17 00:29:49 where are the backupfiles located on the n900? Feb 17 00:29:54 rebooting now Feb 17 00:30:00 rebooted already??? Feb 17 00:30:09 adalal: either in ~/MyDocs or /media/mmc* Feb 17 00:30:11 adalal: in MyDocs or on the microsd Feb 17 00:30:13 thank Feb 17 00:30:22 that was blazingly fast Feb 17 00:30:23 'operating system updated successfully' Feb 17 00:30:25 cool Feb 17 00:30:42 * ptl calms down Feb 17 00:32:16 Anybody knows how to deal with EBookQuery objects??? Feb 17 00:32:19 the 'cam can only write to FAT' isnt fixed .. doh Feb 17 00:32:41 cehteh: i'm not quite sure why you'd expect it to be fixed quickly Feb 17 00:32:48 especially not in a *MINOR* release Feb 17 00:33:01 * timeless_mbp isn't even sure if there's an entire team left Feb 17 00:33:03 i just have hopes Feb 17 00:33:21 timeless_mbp: duh Feb 17 00:33:21 and why would you expect it to be a top priority when it's absolutely clear that it's entirely unsupported Feb 17 00:33:31 * timeless_mbp often hates end users Feb 17 00:34:43 * cehteh hopes to get rid of fat someday Feb 17 00:37:17 i dont get it, how come mine keeps saying (no updates available)? i have the nokia system software updates repository enabled :S Feb 17 00:38:02 ShadowJK: I have 45megs free now still cant upgrade :/ Feb 17 00:38:08 why is Microsoft even trying to do something with windows mobile 7? It's already over for them. Feb 17 00:38:18 Aranel, because it says not enough space? Feb 17 00:38:24 * GAN900 did it with 40MB Feb 17 00:38:30 ptl they have the money Feb 17 00:38:35 it does not get close to android, maemo/meego, iPhoneOS Feb 17 00:38:40 ptl: a company like microsoft would probably run a mobile os department just for the heck of it Feb 17 00:38:49 woglinde: sometimes it is not enough Feb 17 00:38:52 ptl: err Feb 17 00:38:59 glass: that is the most probable reason, I think Feb 17 00:39:01 Nokia is busy trying to run two competing mobile platforms Feb 17 00:39:01 * adalal is confused as to why I can't upgrade to the new PR Feb 17 00:39:06 both which are reinventing themselves Feb 17 00:39:08 GAN900: It says I should use my PC instead. Feb 17 00:39:12 intel is trying to do one Feb 17 00:39:16 google is trying to do one Feb 17 00:39:21 apple is trying to do one Feb 17 00:39:29 why *shouldn't* microsoft try to do one? Feb 17 00:39:30 Palm, Samsung too Feb 17 00:39:41 at least, afaik microsoft isn't trying to do *two* anymore Feb 17 00:39:44 Not forgetting RIM... Feb 17 00:39:44 * timeless_mbp hopes wince is dead Feb 17 00:39:46 timeless_mbp: because they're too far behind Feb 17 00:39:48 qualcom too Feb 17 00:39:55 ptl: very funny Feb 17 00:39:57 timeless_mbp: well, dunno how you count zune Feb 17 00:39:59 limo too Feb 17 00:40:02 symbian is frozen and incredibly behind Feb 17 00:40:10 I can't see BREW lasting much longer Feb 17 00:40:16 glass: sorry. you're right, at least they're only trying to do 2, instead of 3 :) Feb 17 00:40:20 vmlemon *g* Feb 17 00:41:11 date selection in maemo5, possible to show the week day? Feb 17 00:41:14 timeless: well no comment about samsung Feb 17 00:41:22 hehe Feb 17 00:41:23 samsung Feb 17 00:41:23 ie: mon, tue, wed, thur, fri, sat, sun Feb 17 00:41:25 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=530957 Feb 17 00:41:25 .. bebe baba bada? Feb 17 00:41:27 Voila ! Feb 17 00:41:31 samsung does everything Feb 17 00:41:32 Just need HTC or LG to make a splash with a "We're going to make our own platform, and keep it all to ourselves" announcement Feb 17 00:41:33 they're whores Feb 17 00:41:34 cehteh: an exhaustive list of mobile platforms is a waste of time :) Feb 17 00:41:41 but the point is that it's definitely an open area Feb 17 00:41:45 thats their problem too, they do everything Feb 17 00:41:49 and if you have money to burn, why not? Feb 17 00:41:54 ms has money to burn Feb 17 00:41:57 bada was its name or? it sux balls imo Feb 17 00:42:01 Aranel, yeah, that's not a space issue. Feb 17 00:42:05 Aranel, there's a package conflict.p Feb 17 00:42:22 cehteh: and if you use a few samsung mobiles from past years it's quite obvious they got too many teams Feb 17 00:42:32 * vmlemon_ ponders the fate of the various platforms based upon Nucleus and numerous other RTOSes Feb 17 00:42:32 even in non-smartphone Feb 17 00:42:45 i dint even looked at them Feb 17 00:43:08 wazd: can you fix my post pls? Feb 17 00:43:10 GeneralAntilles: :/ do you have any idea how can I locate the faulty package? Feb 17 00:43:22 and i buyed a n900 because its open and free software (mosty) not because i am nokia fanboy Feb 17 00:43:28 Sure, it's not a smartphone platform, but I hear that the S40 folks aren't doing too well, what with talks of Nokia laying developers off... Feb 17 00:43:29 matthew-: where? Feb 17 00:43:40 wazd: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=530957 Feb 17 00:43:41 Aranel, check the log from the menu. Feb 17 00:43:44 Subject Feb 17 00:43:47 Aranel, failing that apt-get may tell you. Feb 17 00:43:47 vmlemon_: well how many guys does s40 team really need? Feb 17 00:43:55 remobe the nativaly please. Feb 17 00:44:21 vmlemon_: s40 team is doing brilliantly in sold phone numbers though Feb 17 00:44:23 It's been said that Nokia could still make a nice profit if they never added new features to S40, and just kept repackaging the hardware Feb 17 00:44:27 Indeed Feb 17 00:44:41 vmlemon_: well check out nokias average device price Feb 17 00:44:49 matthew-: no, sorry, I'm design only moderator Feb 17 00:45:13 matthew-, you can edit your own posts. Feb 17 00:45:13 Still, they're slowly adding bits and pieces on, and they renovated the Web browser recently Feb 17 00:45:25 yeh Feb 17 00:45:33 it's the j2me vm i'd like to see some changes to in s40 Feb 17 00:45:46 GeneralAntilles: I cant .. :) Feb 17 00:46:01 GeneralAntilles: I cant moderate the title of the hread. Feb 17 00:46:03 thread* Feb 17 00:46:14 Would be interesting to see Nokia deciding to "pull a Bada", and open the platform to native code, but I can never see that happening Feb 17 00:46:19 GeneralAntilles: log shows nothing. I dont know how to check it via apt. Feb 17 00:46:37 this ICA client on N900 is wonderful Feb 17 00:46:41 if I only could use it. Feb 17 00:46:45 ? Feb 17 00:46:46 at my job the wireless is LEAP Feb 17 00:46:50 so i can't. Feb 17 00:46:50 It'd probably cannibalise their other platforms, too Feb 17 00:46:52 LEAP? Feb 17 00:46:55 ptl: :( Sorry Feb 17 00:46:57 vmlemon_: i foresee symbian hitting sub 100$'s Feb 17 00:46:58 WPA2 with LEAP Feb 17 00:47:06 Aranel, apt-get dist-upgrade from console as root and copy the output to a pastebin. Feb 17 00:47:09 Cisco proprietary EAP extension, timeless_mbp Feb 17 00:47:09 Aranel, but don't run it yet. Feb 17 00:47:11 ptl: I only need it for running bloomberg ;d Feb 17 00:47:14 yum Feb 17 00:47:14 Cisco-proprietary Wi-Fi security protocol Feb 17 00:47:37 matthew-: I need that for my job too... Feb 17 00:47:38 wth is EBookQuery useful for?! Feb 17 00:47:44 ptl: bloomberg?:) Feb 17 00:47:52 ICA Client Feb 17 00:47:54 ah Feb 17 00:47:56 ok. Feb 17 00:47:59 I don't even know what bloomberg is Feb 17 00:48:08 News and financial agency Feb 17 00:48:08 bloomberg = business news Feb 17 00:48:10 ptl: well the ICA Client does work. Feb 17 00:48:17 yeah, stock quotes Feb 17 00:48:20 company info etc.. Feb 17 00:48:22 awesome thing. Feb 17 00:50:42 GeneralAntilles: http://pastebin.com/d42cdabfb Feb 17 00:51:24 GeneralAntilles: seems like its related with decoders pack? Feb 17 00:51:27 Aranel, weird. OK, apt-get remove decoders-support Feb 17 00:51:35 Or, actually, you can remove it from h-a-m too Feb 17 00:51:42 Then you should be able to upgrade without issue. Feb 17 00:51:49 adalal: got your update yet? Feb 17 00:52:49 Still no update in the UK here Feb 17 00:53:00 ptl: I didnt in the uk Feb 17 00:53:01 ;] Feb 17 00:53:06 pretty annoying Feb 17 00:53:10 None here - UK Feb 17 00:53:24 IIRC it took a couple od days last time Feb 17 00:53:29 I'm pretty sure UK falls behind most of Asian for support. Feb 17 00:53:32 so friday? Feb 17 00:53:39 s/Asian/Asia/ Feb 17 00:53:39 GeneralAntilles meant: I'm pretty sure UK falls behind most of Asia for support. Feb 17 00:53:42 wee, I've found Flash Guru :) Feb 17 00:53:42 SpeedEvil: no no, it was same day last time. Feb 17 00:53:45 The last update I got pretty fast Feb 17 00:53:48 Assuming same rollout schedule Feb 17 00:53:48 Beware! Feb 17 00:53:57 Maybe I upgraded late Feb 17 00:55:00 GeneralAntilles: removed, now trying again :) thanks Feb 17 00:55:50 Aranel, I dunno how we managed to regress in the area of h-a-m error reporting. . . . Feb 17 00:56:20 GeneralAntilles: did you see the ham button dance? Feb 17 00:56:32 timeless_mbp, not as far as I'm aware. Feb 17 00:56:38 I am in Brazil and I got the update Feb 17 00:56:49 GeneralAntilles: still does not install. Feb 17 00:56:55 and N900 isn't even sold in Brazil Feb 17 00:56:56 Aranel, same reason? Feb 17 00:57:56 GeneralAntilles: keeps asking for PC flashing instead. tried dist-up again and: 37 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded. Feb 17 00:58:06 Hrm Feb 17 00:58:09 Aranel: removed ioquake3? Feb 17 00:58:23 043f04400438043204350442 043204410435043c Feb 17 00:58:25 Um, well, if you can symlink the apt cache then you can just use apt-get dist-upgrade to upgrade. Feb 17 00:58:26 043a0442043e 04420430 044204430442 043504410442044c ? Feb 17 00:58:32 Hello ?> Feb 17 00:58:39 hi all ?> Feb 17 00:58:46 lots of control characters in cibi lines Feb 17 00:58:53 can't see any color or something Feb 17 00:58:58 ptf: nope, ill try now :) Feb 17 00:58:58 no Feb 17 00:59:06 ss Feb 17 00:59:15 Can you help me ? Feb 17 00:59:31 Aranel, if ioquake3 doesn't help, see https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5746 for details on symlinking. Feb 17 00:59:32 Bug 5746: symlink /var/cache/apt/archives to /home/apt-archives Feb 17 00:59:36 is it only ENGLISH ? Feb 17 00:59:50 cibi, yes. Feb 17 01:00:22 im first time her Feb 17 01:00:31 what this room about ?> Infromatik ? Feb 17 01:01:37 Feb 17 01:01:40 cibi: A phone OS. Feb 17 01:01:47 a ? Feb 17 01:01:50 pardone ? Feb 17 01:01:57 ok. thanks :) I hate this rootfs space problems, arent they considered as bugs? Feb 17 01:02:11 cibi: A mobile phone operating system. Feb 17 01:02:18 ohh thx Feb 17 01:02:21 Aranel, PR1.2 should be optifying a lot of built-in stuff. Feb 17 01:02:27 but how can i go other room to Computers ?> Feb 17 01:02:33 Feb 17 01:02:47 computer help like this Feb 17 01:03:22 cibi: how did you get here? Feb 17 01:03:29 ^^ now I'm more interested about next PR Feb 17 01:03:35 :) Feb 17 01:03:36 i dont know lol Feb 17 01:03:47 Caution: this is the internet Feb 17 01:03:49 is there a changelog for today's update? Feb 17 01:04:01 i need help eh Feb 17 01:04:06 You may be charged for long distance Feb 17 01:04:09 im from Portugal but im Russian lol Feb 17 01:04:18 wiretapped, wiki, same as PR1.1 Feb 17 01:05:56 GeneralAntilles and ptf: after removing ioquake, now it seems its OK. I don't have any idea why a game cause a firmware update fail, anyway if it works its OK :) Feb 17 01:06:13 Aranel, PR1.1.1 adds GLES 1.1 Feb 17 01:06:20 ptf? Feb 17 01:06:23 lol Feb 17 01:06:26 Aranel, which may cause weirdness with ioquake3's packaging Feb 17 01:06:39 Aranel: that was my doubt too, it's weird :) Feb 17 01:07:09 ptl* :P sorry. xchat on N900 sometimes gets uncomfortable. Feb 17 01:07:27 Aranel, you can add tab. Feb 17 01:08:08 how? theres no HW button Feb 17 01:08:29 Aranel, see the comments on http://blogs.igalia.com/berto/2009/12/17/remapping-the-n900-arrow-keys/ Feb 17 01:09:04 wow, you really love your N900 Feb 17 01:09:19 I used that blog post to add accents to my N900 Feb 17 01:09:27 I'm thinking about adding ce-cedilla now Feb 17 01:09:35 thanks again :) I'll work on it after PR update. Feb 17 01:11:35 * djdm is xchatting on his N900 too Feb 17 01:22:18 hello Feb 17 01:22:18 anybody know why an n900 wouldn't update to 1.1.1? Feb 17 01:22:24 hello Feb 17 01:22:49 adalal, remove ioquake3? Feb 17 01:24:08 GeneralAntilles: i doubt i've ever installed that, and even then, the update isn't showing up Feb 17 01:24:16 GeneralAntilles: do we have a list of things known to cause conflicts? Feb 17 01:24:23 it should be on a wiki Feb 17 01:24:30 timeless_mbp, I think there's a list for PR1.1 Feb 17 01:24:35 Dunno how much applies to PR1.1.1 Feb 17 01:24:41 adalal, UK? Feb 17 01:24:43 yes Feb 17 01:24:51 UK is "special" Feb 17 01:24:52 adalal, then the waiting game is what you're playing Feb 17 01:25:00 people shouldn't use the UK image Feb 17 01:25:05 it's designed to give them pain Feb 17 01:25:06 GeneralAntilles: how come there's a waiting game? Feb 17 01:25:08 For some reason Nokia UK is really far behind anywhere else. Feb 17 01:25:17 just backup everything and reflash w/ the normal universal build Feb 17 01:25:53 reflash my device? Feb 17 01:25:53 s/backup/back up/ Feb 17 01:25:54 timeless_mbp meant: just back up everything and reflash w/ the normal universal build Feb 17 01:25:55 hmm Feb 17 01:26:04 what are the difference? Feb 17 01:26:07 adalal: afaik there is *no* reason to use the uk version Feb 17 01:26:23 sadly, i have no idea what's different about the uk version Feb 17 01:26:28 other than it's "special" Feb 17 01:26:43 is it easy to stop processes with maemo? Feb 17 01:27:01 zelrikriando: using pkill yes Feb 17 01:27:03 or killall Feb 17 01:27:04 zelrikriando: eh? Feb 17 01:27:17 someone even wrote a graphical task manager Feb 17 01:27:21 it was moderately shiny Feb 17 01:27:26 * timeless_mbp isn't sure where they put it Feb 17 01:27:45 I am asking because I am having difficulties with Android Feb 17 01:27:55 so I was wondering if maemo was better :p Feb 17 01:28:07 zelrikriando: w/ maemo there are only two reasons not to kill things Feb 17 01:28:20 1. if they're stuck in a kernel lock (eNotOurFault) Feb 17 01:28:42 2. if there's a lifeguard applied and you kill it enough times in a short enough period, the lifeguard will reboot your device Feb 17 01:29:12 ok Feb 17 01:29:31 sounds like the same deal as android Feb 17 01:30:04 Stopping processes is as simple as "stop " as root. Feb 17 01:30:07 mm, are there any risks of permanently bricking the device? Feb 17 01:30:22 no Feb 17 01:30:37 zelrikriando: triggering the lifeguard takes a lot of effort Feb 17 01:30:45 but if for instance I disable google talk, the app market doesnt work anymore Feb 17 01:30:47 and the kernel issue applies to any platform Feb 17 01:30:54 bsd, winnt, linux Feb 17 01:31:21 zelrikriando, yeah, no, there's no silly Nokia services integration shit like that. Feb 17 01:31:30 ok Feb 17 01:31:46 That s good news Feb 17 01:32:03 Android has been pissing me off lately Feb 17 01:32:15 I think I ll try another kind of phone next Feb 17 01:32:33 Android sucks, full stop. At least of the analysis at http://dw2blog.com/2010/02/10/the-mobile-multitasking-advantage/ is anything to go by... Feb 17 01:33:45 well, the ovi store doesn't work in the first place so you don't have to worry about messing it up killing processes :) Feb 17 01:33:47 Well I am in favor of multitasking though Feb 17 01:33:58 brady47: lol Feb 17 01:34:30 What I am not in favor is mandatory updates that unroot my phone Oo Feb 17 01:34:50 zelrikriando, no worries there. Feb 17 01:34:51 and almost bricks it on the way Feb 17 01:35:00 Was amusing to hear that Microsoft finally hobbled their OS as far as multitasking is concerned. I always thought that would be a signature feature for them... Feb 17 01:35:14 yeah, I saw some blog post Jobs is now blocking hackers from itunes store ! Feb 17 01:35:19 GeneralAntilles: does N900 work on Rogers? Feb 17 01:35:29 Oh Rogers Feb 17 01:35:33 those ***** Feb 17 01:35:43 All the pain I have is because of them I am sure Feb 17 01:35:49 luke-jr, think so, but don't think there's any carrier in Canada that uses the right 3G frequencies. Feb 17 01:35:57 GeneralAntilles: ... so no Feb 17 01:36:07 how could it work if they don't use the right frequencies? Feb 17 01:36:10 luke-jr: i should know in july :) Feb 17 01:36:21 no 3g, just gsm Feb 17 01:36:29 just gprs Feb 17 01:36:30 luke-jr, WCDMA is usually different from GSM. Feb 17 01:36:39 timeless_mbp: Rogers recently shoved an "update" to their Android users that prevents rooting them Feb 17 01:36:41 luke-jr, so it'll work for voice and EDGE, but not HSPA. Feb 17 01:36:51 luke-jr: nice of them Feb 17 01:37:00 luke-jr: I am a victim too Feb 17 01:37:05 I am switching m operator because of that too Feb 17 01:37:07 don't think anything stops them from doing the same to Maemo/N900 Feb 17 01:37:09 *my Feb 17 01:37:10 anyone has used dbus-send on N900? I am new to dbus and couldn't figure out what I did wrong. Feb 17 01:37:10 luke-jr: who cares? Feb 17 01:37:20 luke-jr, um, does Rogers sell the N900? Feb 17 01:37:22 last i checked, roger's data plans were not particularly friendly Feb 17 01:37:30 There is no such thing as switching operator in Canada Feb 17 01:37:33 GeneralAntilles: doesn't matter; they locked all phones, not just ones they subsidized Feb 17 01:37:34 chaoyi: did you --print-reply? Feb 17 01:37:36 They are all partners Feb 17 01:37:44 damn, it's so uncomfortable to watch olimpics in here :( Feb 17 01:37:49 timeless_mbp http://pastebin.com/m7cfcf472 Feb 17 01:38:21 luke-jr, um, how does that work? Feb 17 01:38:26 timeless_mbp: i looked at the documentation at http://maemo.org/api_refs/5.0/5.0-final/bluez/network-api.txt Feb 17 01:38:38 luke-jr, if you bring your own SIm and get your updates from Nokia, where does Rogers come into the picture? Feb 17 01:38:44 GeneralAntilles: they blocked them from using the network unless you applied it Feb 17 01:39:03 at least, that's my understanding of it Feb 17 01:39:07 luke-jr, yeah, FUD. Feb 17 01:39:14 luke-jr, what you're claiming is possible makes no sense. Feb 17 01:39:20 sure it does Feb 17 01:39:23 Well that s what they did to android at least Feb 17 01:39:30 not sure they can do the same to maemo Feb 17 01:39:46 now meego Feb 17 01:39:47 if your phone doesn't send some packet within a minute, it can boot you; then have the magic packet sent by a known-locked firmware Feb 17 01:39:59 does maemo changing to meego makes it more probably that they do that? Feb 17 01:40:12 zelrikriando: I don't see what would stop them Feb 17 01:40:17 luke-jr: I think they can only do that to the phones they sell Feb 17 01:40:22 ptl, no. Feb 17 01:40:36 If you bring your own phone, they have no right on it Feb 17 01:40:42 zelrikriando: they can choose to do it to any phone, if they choose to, and the regulator will let them. Feb 17 01:40:47 zelrikriando: no right to, but when has that ever stopped a company? Feb 17 01:40:57 zelrikriando: unless they are under some obligation to provide internet access. Feb 17 01:41:02 < Feb 17 01:41:20 SpeedEvil: that s what is pissing me off Feb 17 01:41:23 luke-jr: I have used my N900 for months on Rogers... so what are you talking about? Feb 17 01:41:40 They are all 'regulated' Feb 17 01:41:42 zerojay: I'm talking about theory. Feb 17 01:41:55 I'm just catching up on the conversation. Feb 17 01:41:59 basically a monopoly Feb 17 01:42:24 zerojay: in theory, CompanyX could require you to install a package that locks you out of root, and rosegarden you until you do Feb 17 01:42:42 luke-jr: that is if you sign their EULA Feb 17 01:43:01 luke-jr: How did Rogers lock all phones, not just those they subsidized? Feb 17 01:43:13 zerojay: something like that, I think Feb 17 01:43:17 luke-jr: They don't. Feb 17 01:43:45 My cell phone gaming company has had about 400 different phones from all over the world on 4 different sim cards over 3 years. They don't care. Feb 17 01:44:16 Lots of fun paying over $4000 in data charges. Feb 17 01:44:22 Per month. Feb 17 01:44:43 good nite Feb 17 01:45:15 zerojay: I am pretty sure they can unroot a phone that s rooted though Feb 17 01:45:34 they did that to all their HTC Magic customers Feb 17 01:45:46 zelrikriando: Unrooted them remotely? Feb 17 01:45:53 zerojay: not remotely Feb 17 01:45:57 but enforcing a patch Feb 17 01:46:10 by disabling the 3G Feb 17 01:46:10 I don't see the problem there. Feb 17 01:46:29 zerojay: " You apply patch or no more connexion for you" Feb 17 01:46:53 zelrikriando, to people who bought them subsidized? Feb 17 01:46:58 GeneralAntilles: yeah Feb 17 01:47:00 Again, I don't see the problem with that as long as you're using their service with their terms and their subsidized phones. Feb 17 01:47:07 zelrikriando, sounds like their own damn fault, then. Feb 17 01:47:14 zelrikriando: people who bought them non-subsidized were immune? Feb 17 01:47:37 zerojay: That's the reason I am looking for unlocked phones that are no subsidized :) Feb 17 01:47:38 Nothing stopping Rogers from saying it's a security fix, because technically, it is. Feb 17 01:47:58 luke-jr: I dont know about that Feb 17 01:48:06 And since it's their own phone... I don't see the issue. Feb 17 01:48:22 I think they ll have more trouble for an unsubsidized phone Feb 17 01:48:32 because they cant say it s their software Feb 17 01:48:48 they can't say it's theirs even for a subsidized phone AFAIK Feb 17 01:48:50 It's still their network. Feb 17 01:49:03 they sold it to you at a lower price in exchange for a service contract Feb 17 01:49:04 mmm, customer abuse Feb 17 01:49:15 luke-jr, and special vendor software. Feb 17 01:49:17 you're obliged to keep service with them, but AFAIK you still own it Feb 17 01:49:38 I dont think it s Android the issue Feb 17 01:49:47 the Nexus One is rooted by default Feb 17 01:49:53 you can unlock it in the bootloader Feb 17 01:49:54 forcing a patch by denying service arguably lets you terminate the contract w/o fines, assuming they didn't include it originally Feb 17 01:50:34 All i know is that I walked directly downstairs from my work office in Quebec to Rogers, told the guy there straight out that I was going to be using an unlocked Nokia prototype and the dude didn't blink once and never said there was any issues. Feb 17 01:50:54 zerojay: that matters how? XD Feb 17 01:51:07 zerojay: I tend to agree with you. I think luke-jr is generalizing :p Feb 17 01:51:15 customer-facing people tend to not have any authority Feb 17 01:51:32 It matters quite a bit when you're saying what you are. Feb 17 01:52:05 Rogers did fuck me over though. Feb 17 01:52:42 They had a promo for their rocketstick for 2 years and I decided to grab it and suddenly saw that my account online was saying that the contract was for 3 years, not 2. Feb 17 01:53:11 well if you sign for 2 years you can show them the freaking contract Feb 17 01:53:19 * luke-jr concurs Feb 17 01:53:21 I called them up and the people that I talked to all said "wow, that's really weird... and that shouldn't be right, but we can't do anything about it if you signed it." Feb 17 01:53:23 if you sign on paper that is Feb 17 01:53:35 how much space do I have to free on / to do this new update? Feb 17 01:53:57 * luke-jr thinks it's ridiculous how people just give in to companies that abuse them Feb 17 01:54:06 Next time, I ll just crossed out what I dont like in the EULA Feb 17 01:54:16 if I have to sign an EULA again that is Feb 17 01:54:22 do they enforce the patch on all the phones? Feb 17 01:54:24 My copy of the contract said 2 years, Rogers claimed theirs says 3. Feb 17 01:54:39 zerojay: you have your copy? Feb 17 01:54:47 goldfish: ~16MB, you can disable the extras repos temporarily for easy space Feb 17 01:55:06 Guy at the local Rogers store said that even if I get stuck with 3 years, I should at least complain so that I GET something for that extra year in some way. Feb 17 01:55:18 luke-jr: Yeah, I do. Feb 17 01:55:26 ml-mobile: hmm I have like 30 free and it's saying I don't have enough mem in target location Feb 17 01:55:27 Apparently doesn't matter. Feb 17 01:55:33 zerojay: then ignore them and threaten to sue for harassment if they don't stfu? Feb 17 01:55:45 luke-jr: How are they harassing me? Feb 17 01:55:56 zerojay: if they don't harrass you, then what's the problem? :p Feb 17 01:56:09 lol what Feb 17 01:56:25 my boss was so smart Feb 17 01:56:31 he bought an ipod touch Feb 17 01:56:36 and jailbroke it Feb 17 01:56:39 and that was it Feb 17 01:56:41 Sounds dumb to me. Feb 17 01:56:42 just call them up sometime around 2 years and tell them you won't be renewing your subscription Feb 17 01:56:45 no phone plan Feb 17 01:56:47 :D Feb 17 01:56:58 zelrikriando: ... why? Feb 17 01:57:15 zelrikriando: So... he's.. enjoying being useless when mobile? Feb 17 01:57:21 ipod touches don't have phone plan... Feb 17 01:57:36 ml-mobile: Yes, we know. Feb 17 01:57:58 * luke-jr can't think of anything he could possibly do with an iPod Touch Feb 17 01:58:02 zerojay: he just picks whatever wifi he can get Feb 17 01:58:13 ml-mobile: disabling extras seemed to do the trick though, thanks much Feb 17 01:58:14 zelrikriando: Wow.... that's terrible. Feb 17 01:58:15 zerojay: I think he doesnt like phones in general though Feb 17 01:58:47 I don't in general either. Feb 17 01:58:51 me either Feb 17 01:58:53 lol Feb 17 01:59:13 I hated phones with a passion and then I started making games for them and hearing alarms going off all day long. Feb 17 02:00:17 I am not sure what my next phone will be Feb 17 02:00:22 I used to use a calling card with some VoIP toy that could make free 800 # calls <.< Feb 17 02:00:24 * GeneralAntilles tries to decide what to eat for second dinner. Feb 17 02:00:29 for my home phone Feb 17 02:00:30 but I hope I can get a good unlocked phone in Canada Feb 17 02:00:43 zelrikriando: Nexus Two with 100% custom firmware? Feb 17 02:01:05 not sure about Google Feb 17 02:01:12 N900! Feb 17 02:01:23 They broke my heart Feb 17 02:01:24 lol Feb 17 02:01:44 GeneralAntilles: a new phone might come up before I change my phone Feb 17 02:01:49 * luke-jr doesn't care about the company, just hardware Feb 17 02:02:18 I ll keep what I have until my contract almost expire Feb 17 02:02:26 or until Rogers pisses me off enough Feb 17 02:03:01 is there a changelog for this firmware anywhere yet? Feb 17 02:03:15 go1dfish, on the wiki, like the last one. Feb 17 02:03:19 go1dfish: Get on TMO. It's all there. Feb 17 02:03:23 http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_5/PR1.1.1 Feb 17 02:03:50 thanks Feb 17 02:03:52 Isn't Bell supposed to be setting up the right 3g frequencies supported by the N900 soon? Feb 17 02:04:20 yeah I was looking on TMO, but all I was seeing was the 800 post long 'announcement' that it existed Feb 17 02:04:23 http://www.cyber1.org/ <<< we totally need this awesomeness for maemo :) first multiuser graphical computer system Feb 17 02:14:42 GeneralAntilles: I'm online, have the day off work (our floor is flooded) Feb 17 02:14:50 GeneralAntilles: I'll take it from here Feb 17 02:16:07 yay! for floods! Feb 17 02:16:12 crashanddie_, take what? :P Feb 17 02:16:21 the channel Feb 17 02:18:49 lol Feb 17 02:19:06 zerojay: shush, it's mine Feb 17 02:19:29 zerojay is just laughing because he's rigged it to blow! Feb 17 02:19:31 * GeneralAntilles runs! Feb 17 02:19:54 * crashanddie_ puts on his fart-brigade uniform Feb 17 02:20:01 Don't you dare blow on me, son! Feb 17 02:21:22 dont worry. it wont blow, there's too much water apparently Feb 17 02:21:25 any football fan? Feb 17 02:21:32 matthew-: you? Feb 17 02:21:38 crashanddie_: any other one? Feb 17 02:22:01 matthew-: I'm sure there's a lot of football fans, maybe just not here? Feb 17 02:22:11 I'm a Bucs fan. Feb 17 02:22:14 * GeneralAntilles grins. Feb 17 02:22:31 handegg Feb 17 02:22:33 i find australian rules amusing Feb 17 02:22:46 ~ml-mobile++ Feb 17 02:24:01 KamuiN900: I'm afraid you're going to have to leave Feb 17 02:24:10 KamuiN900: N900 devices are no longer tolerated in this channel Feb 17 02:24:26 KamuiN900: Only MeeGo-software is now authorised to join this channel Feb 17 02:24:38 !!!!!!! :) Feb 17 02:24:46 crashanddie_: its too soon for that Feb 17 02:24:53 you are hurting my feelings Feb 17 02:24:59 ;)*Tatyana*: says: (02:24:18) Feb 17 02:24:59 as i said, i do make me laugh Feb 17 02:25:02 uh Feb 17 02:25:03 not this Feb 17 02:25:05 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGHLUc7ZmAs Feb 17 02:25:06 this Feb 17 02:25:07 crashanddie_, so, /mode +b #maemo *!*@* ? Feb 17 02:25:08 lol Feb 17 02:25:17 GeneralAntilles: nope Feb 17 02:25:20 GeneralAntilles: no wait Feb 17 02:25:27 I am using MeeGo on EFIKA Feb 17 02:25:28 <.< Feb 17 02:25:37 there you go :) Feb 17 02:25:56 :-D Feb 17 02:26:01 Evil, evil. Feb 17 02:26:03 shouldn't that be *!user@* ? Feb 17 02:26:15 luke-jr: it was on purpose Feb 17 02:26:25 you guys are taking the meego news so well Feb 17 02:26:36 im still on the verge of tear Feb 17 02:26:43 s Feb 17 02:26:50 kamui900: in my case, I never liked Maemo Feb 17 02:26:51 kamui900: I had a hard time with it at first, but once Quim explained a few things it soon was a lot better Feb 17 02:27:07 if I was angry, it would be because I thought Nokia was trying to shed the bad reputation Maemo has Feb 17 02:27:22 but that would be naive since nobody actually gives Maemo the bad reputation it deserves :P Feb 17 02:34:18 how many firmware releases for the n900 have there been Feb 17 02:34:23 2? Feb 17 02:34:26 or 3 Feb 17 02:34:48 Depends if you count pre-prod devices or not Feb 17 02:34:55 but public? 2 Feb 17 02:35:00 or 3 Feb 17 02:35:02 can't remember Feb 17 02:35:13 * crashanddie_ facepalms about his uselessness Feb 17 02:35:22 42-11, 51-1, 3-8 Feb 17 02:35:48 are those football scores? Feb 17 02:35:49 I can't name the Diablo release numbers anymore, however. Feb 17 02:36:08 or very, very long and weirdly counted tennis games? Feb 17 02:36:08 thanks ga. is 3-8 not ota able? Feb 17 02:36:11 crashanddie_, could be. Feb 17 02:36:20 kamui900, where are you located. Feb 17 02:36:26 us of a Feb 17 02:36:36 kamui900, should be, I did mine a few hours ago. Feb 17 02:36:58 hmm didnt show in my updates list Feb 17 02:37:05 ill keep trying Feb 17 02:37:37 I killed my microusb charger Feb 17 02:37:55 Need to charge through USB... Feb 17 02:38:07 Fail Feb 17 02:38:30 kamui900, if that fails, might try an apt-get install mp-fremantle-gener-pr. Feb 17 02:38:49 found it :) Feb 17 02:38:57 http://pix.motivatedphotos.com/2009/2/2/633692057194761860-handegg.jpg Feb 17 02:40:06 crashanddie_, hey, it aint playing around. You don't see soccer players retiring with dementia. :P Feb 17 02:40:34 GeneralAntilles: dementia is caused by the ridiculous amounts of steroids they pour in their SuckaFlakes Feb 17 02:40:55 GeneralAntilles: Rugby is ten times the game American Football will ever be Feb 17 02:41:09 crashanddie_, if your theory were correct, then MLB players would be getting it, too. Feb 17 02:41:11 and what the fuck, iPhoto launches when I plugin my n900? Feb 17 02:41:21 GeneralAntilles: MLB? Feb 17 02:41:21 crashanddie_, you can turn that off in settings. Feb 17 02:41:41 baseball Feb 17 02:42:17 Listen, the world had very good sports to begin with Feb 17 02:42:33 Football (or Soccer), Criquet, and Rugby Feb 17 02:42:44 Meh, I didn't grow up on any of those. Feb 17 02:42:55 you idiots came around and just threw Football out of the window, and modified Rugby to Football, and Criquet to Baseball Feb 17 02:44:10 Baseball is criquet without the rebound on the ground, no that would be too complicated, no little wood chips behind the batter, because that's too hard to aim at, you make the bat round, because it's a lot easier to hit, and you make the ball bigger because it's a lot easier to see Feb 17 02:44:34 oh, and you get those big fail gloves to protect your petite prestine hands Feb 17 02:45:30 Same with rugby, you sew them until they bloody armoured tanks. I mean, why the hell did you even bother sending mechs during 2nd world war, you should've just sent football players Feb 17 02:45:45 /rant Feb 17 02:48:46 I see I've touched a nerve. :D Feb 17 02:49:14 "All pretence has been abandonned, as both teams take to the field, naked, covered in lubricant to the sound of pounding techno" Feb 17 02:50:19 And that is exactly what American Football is: a travesty of sport, created for keeping the idle masses contempt and braindead Feb 17 02:51:00 anyone know how to force apt to install a package that has unmet deps? Feb 17 02:51:05 specifically I want maemo-optify Feb 17 02:51:14 it needs a different version of perl than is installed Feb 17 02:51:20 but I suspect the actual version here doesn't matter Feb 17 02:51:22 apt-get --force-all Feb 17 02:51:24 apt-get --force-all install package Feb 17 02:51:25 suite Feb 17 02:51:28 oh Feb 17 02:51:29 no Feb 17 02:51:34 it's dpkg --force-all Feb 17 02:51:38 you have to do the following: Feb 17 02:51:42 apt-get download package Feb 17 02:51:45 then Feb 17 02:51:46 crap, I see Feb 17 02:51:49 go to /var/cache/apt/archives Feb 17 02:51:49 then dpkg to install it Feb 17 02:51:52 then dpkg --force-all Feb 17 02:51:54 yes Feb 17 02:52:37 GeneralAntilles: I'm pretty sure these days we could have a guy being broadcast on every channel, wearing green trousers and a yellow shirt, just shaking a keyring in front of the camera, going "look at the shiny shiny", and people would just go "Oh look `$country has talent` is on, let's get some crisps, NOM NOM NOM" Feb 17 02:52:45 but in these cases I get a recipe where, if I am sure about the safety of the operation, I can open a deb package, change its dependencies, and repackage it Feb 17 02:52:50 it's just a couple commands, want it? Feb 17 02:52:57 crashanddie_, nobody eats crisps in the US. Feb 17 02:52:58 GTFO. Feb 17 02:53:17 GeneralAntilles: I didn't say US, I said $country you $count Feb 17 02:53:30 lol Feb 17 02:53:56 anyway, time for cigarette and food, talk later Feb 17 02:54:22 should be times for a 'f*g' and food? ;) Feb 17 02:54:42 afterall, weren't we going for localization of english? Feb 17 02:54:47 ds3, he's been really hung up on the homosexual stuff lately. Feb 17 02:54:56 :D Feb 17 02:55:43 oh I see Ogg is STILL not supported out of the box Feb 17 02:56:11 It should be in Harmattan Feb 17 02:56:22 and adding support is as simple as installing one package from Extras, so, meh. Feb 17 02:56:35 and that works seemlessly now? Feb 17 02:56:57 same can be said of that on the N800 but that doesn't quite work with the internal media player Feb 17 02:57:02 ds3, CPU usage is a bit high as of yet, but otherwise, yes. Feb 17 02:57:09 oh nice Feb 17 02:58:00 is the N900 setup so that "nokia" or its approved proxies can shove updates down your unit w/o you knowing? Feb 17 02:58:15 No Feb 17 02:58:27 hi, does anyone here know if it is possible to connect to jabber chats via conversations? Feb 17 02:58:37 At least, no on any unlocked unit Feb 17 02:58:40 Dunno about the locked ones Feb 17 02:58:45 i can do it with pidgin, but can't figure it out with conversations Feb 17 02:58:46 But, then, who cares about those? :P Feb 17 02:58:58 for the US, there aren't any locked units available (yet?) Feb 17 02:59:00 kejen_, add the account and connect? Feb 17 02:59:10 ds3, no, only one I know of is from Vodafone. Feb 17 02:59:19 kejen, probably have to install the conversations plugins pack Feb 17 02:59:26 to get jabber working Feb 17 02:59:30 kamui, Jabber is supported out of the box. Feb 17 02:59:42 same with AIM? Feb 17 02:59:43 i can get on jabber, but cant join a chat root Feb 17 02:59:45 room Feb 17 02:59:46 GeneralAntilles, probably right Feb 17 02:59:55 definately right in fact **** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Feb 17 02:59:58 2010