**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Feb 17 02:59:58 2010 Feb 17 02:59:59 ds3, no, but Telepathy Extras are in Extras and work fine. Feb 17 03:00:17 kejen: there's a convo rooms plugin, never tried it though Feb 17 03:00:27 so other then full size SD slots and USB host, what else do I lose coming from the N800 then? Feb 17 03:00:36 I believe it allows for group chats and jabber chat rooms Feb 17 03:00:39 i did install the .8 plugins with hopes Feb 17 03:00:40 it sounds like all the software issues are addressable with extras Feb 17 03:00:50 ahh, will check out the rooms plugin Feb 17 03:00:51 thanks Feb 17 03:00:54 ds3, a hardware escape key and fullscreen key. Feb 17 03:01:06 ds3, for the most part. Feb 17 03:01:14 hw escape key? Feb 17 03:01:22 The one under the dpad Feb 17 03:01:25 I can do w/o the fullscreen key Feb 17 03:01:26 The back one is just escape Feb 17 03:01:33 oh the twisted arrow thingie Feb 17 03:01:53 btw Feb 17 03:01:58 so much for running vi on a terminal there then :D Feb 17 03:02:11 are the keys like the power button and volume button recognisable as 'keys' under X too? Feb 17 03:02:18 ds3, there's a soft escape on the terminal toolbar Feb 17 03:02:25 are they remappable? Feb 17 03:02:27 the buttons off the keyboard Feb 17 03:02:30 ds3, and you can bind it to something on the keyboard if you want. Feb 17 03:02:37 ptl, yes, yes. Feb 17 03:02:39 so it is not fatal Feb 17 03:02:52 ds3, host is really the only fatal thing. Feb 17 03:02:55 and the LCD is the N810 one (transreflective, works in the Sun)? Feb 17 03:03:06 It's a new one Feb 17 03:03:07 Sony Feb 17 03:03:11 3.5" Feb 17 03:03:12 Transflective Feb 17 03:03:16 ds3: N900 display is significantly smaller Feb 17 03:03:24 smaller? eek Feb 17 03:03:32 Ah, didn't realize you missed that one. Feb 17 03:03:36 Yeah, 3.5" vs 4.1" Feb 17 03:03:38 800x480 on the N800 is small enough Feb 17 03:03:43 You don't really notice it, though. Feb 17 03:03:46 At least, I don't. Feb 17 03:03:48 I assumed it was basically the N810 case/LCD Feb 17 03:03:49 * luke-jr would Feb 17 03:04:08 I use it as a GPS and @#%@$$%$@# OSM maps seems to come out with the tiny font Feb 17 03:04:25 wtf? I thought N800 didn't have GPS Feb 17 03:04:29 ds3, build a headmount. :P Feb 17 03:04:33 I use a BT GPS Feb 17 03:04:34 Bluetooth Feb 17 03:04:37 o Feb 17 03:04:54 headmount? composite output? Feb 17 03:05:00 Oooh Feb 17 03:05:07 GeneralAntilles: if he built a headmount, he wouldn't need something handheld Feb 17 03:05:11 Build a HUD projector Feb 17 03:05:24 could stick a BB or EMX in a jacket Feb 17 03:05:29 I made my own car mount for the 800 already Feb 17 03:05:31 luke-jr, I'm mostly thinking of something that holds the N900 in front of your face. Feb 17 03:05:37 I was being facetious. Feb 17 03:05:41 i c Feb 17 03:05:43 oh :P Feb 17 03:05:50 But, yeah, composite output is there. Feb 17 03:06:13 do current-gen TVs support composite anymore? O.o Feb 17 03:06:18 it sounds like it is worth it but the tiny gotchas :( Feb 17 03:06:20 luke-jr, yes. Feb 17 03:06:22 you would need special glasses or a lens to allow your eyes to focus Feb 17 03:06:26 in order to have it close to your face Feb 17 03:06:39 aren't HUDs made with that in mind? Feb 17 03:06:40 ds3: no USB host, also Feb 17 03:06:53 sheepbat: [21:05:31] luke-jr, I'm mostly thinking of something that holds the N900 in front of your face. Feb 17 03:06:58 oh Feb 17 03:07:03 luke-jr: yeah, that is pretty high on my gotchas list Feb 17 03:07:22 but prehaps, I'll just make a little USB server with a BT interface :D Feb 17 03:07:28 lol Feb 17 03:07:38 ds3, I wonder how many of those you could sell. Feb 17 03:07:42 I just need to be able to read a USB stick ocassionally Feb 17 03:07:43 ds3: personally, I'm waiting for a next-gen device like Nexus Two or such Feb 17 03:07:50 GA: you think someone is actually interested in that? Feb 17 03:07:57 ds3, I dunno. Feb 17 03:07:58 ds3: I think it would be a hot item Feb 17 03:08:04 lots of people seem to miss USB host Feb 17 03:08:08 I bet there's be a couple hundred people who might buy if the price were right. Feb 17 03:08:12 anyone with a smartphone with a tiny keyboard would want one Feb 17 03:08:19 luke-jr: I have limited time... the N800 is wearing out (it is a daily use device) Feb 17 03:08:20 well.. not anyone Feb 17 03:08:23 It'd probably have to be less than $50. Feb 17 03:08:32 but people who would want to type on them using a fullsize keyboard Feb 17 03:08:40 ds3: ah; SmartQ 5 perhaps? Feb 17 03:08:43 ds3, just get it from somewhere with a reasonable return policy. Feb 17 03:08:57 I can do $50 but that would only work with USB sticks Feb 17 03:09:01 USB memory Feb 17 03:09:02 sheepbat: Bluetooth keyboards exist Feb 17 03:09:18 GA: I donno about that...that's a $150 premium Feb 17 03:09:24 ..good point Feb 17 03:09:25 I been meaning to ask, what is the point of that "mac os" folder with 0 length binary files in it? Feb 17 03:09:48 ds3, well, if you get interested in the manufacturing, talk to jolouis. Feb 17 03:09:52 Dell seems to be the cheapests and I don't think they do returns (unless I am wrong) Feb 17 03:09:56 ds3, he did the USB OTG adaptors for the N800/N810. Feb 17 03:10:07 ds3, hrm, good point. Feb 17 03:10:17 GA: I can do the manufacturing... I am manufacturing the LCD interfaces for the BB already Feb 17 03:10:24 They should do returns, but I'm not sure if they have a restocking fee. Feb 17 03:10:33 ds3: O.O Feb 17 03:10:37 ahh, my screen protector is here Feb 17 03:10:46 ds3, no, sorry, I know you can do it, but he's somebody who has experience with the market and might have some useful insights. ;) Feb 17 03:11:14 it is either a stopgap buy a new battery for the N800 and hope the Treo tethering don't die or hold my nose and jump into the N900 Feb 17 03:11:29 GA: gotcha Feb 17 03:13:13 Hmmm for USB memory sticks, $50 should be doable Feb 17 03:13:31 but a BB based solution is more fun ;) Feb 17 03:13:37 Haha Feb 17 03:13:41 That's so excessive. Feb 17 03:14:03 it is no worse then the C64 days when the diskdrives had faster CPUs ;) Feb 17 03:14:46 Too bad Bluetooth has no bandwidth Feb 17 03:14:52 Else you could do some other fun stuff with a setup like that. Feb 17 03:14:56 *groan* Feb 17 03:15:00 such as? Feb 17 03:15:04 I hate having to reflash for such a minor firmware upgrade Feb 17 03:15:06 Video out and such Feb 17 03:15:12 12 meg free on root Feb 17 03:15:23 kamui, remove your stuff from Extras-devel. Feb 17 03:15:25 Oh... even WiFi would not go too well with that Feb 17 03:15:30 Indeed Feb 17 03:15:42 Too bad we don't have USB host Feb 17 03:15:44 Oh, wait. ;) Feb 17 03:15:57 looking at the junk pile... a PXA270 might be a reasonable compromise Feb 17 03:16:51 ouch, maybe not from a $$ prospective Feb 17 03:30:40 quit Feb 17 03:31:07 no quit Feb 17 03:31:11 I am staying! Feb 17 03:35:15 GeneralAntilles, im trying something drastic Feb 17 03:35:19 removing nokia maps :) Feb 17 03:35:27 its not like ovi maps is useful anyway Feb 17 03:35:40 just eating up a lot of a space it seems on /usr/share Feb 17 03:35:47 didn't look deep to make sure most of its not already relinked Feb 17 03:35:55 cause that would just stink like a silent dog fart Feb 17 03:37:56 what would you use instead of ovi maps? Feb 17 03:38:42 http://xkcd.com/407/ Feb 17 03:38:50 right now, probably just navit Feb 17 03:38:58 though Im reallynot using the N900 for navigation at all Feb 17 03:39:08 I coded that using espeak - though I mislaid it when flashing Feb 17 03:39:17 espeak rocks Feb 17 03:39:20 navit is free? hehe Feb 17 03:39:35 well, if its not, that would be news to me Feb 17 03:39:37 yes Feb 17 03:39:39 it is Feb 17 03:39:52 getting your maps isn't really all that fun Feb 17 03:40:02 but once thats done it works pretty well Feb 17 03:40:08 really? can navigate for free using navit? Feb 17 03:40:14 what did you code using espeak, SpeedEvil? Feb 17 03:40:49 I really hope that somewhere in this merge of moblin and maemo they do something about ovi craps Feb 17 03:41:26 ptl: the xkcd gps Feb 17 03:42:31 http://blog.xkcd.com/2008/05/20/gps-cyborg-implant/ Feb 17 03:42:41 anyone see any reason I can't or shouldn't use dist-upgrade to install the new firmware? Feb 17 03:43:57 kamui: i tried it once. didn't end well Feb 17 03:44:15 kamui, depends on if anything is being removed. Feb 17 03:44:28 kamui, it's also a good idea to symlink the apt cache to someplace with some space. Feb 17 03:45:05 GeneralAntilles, thats usually my first article of business Feb 17 03:45:24 GeneralAntilles, the first reboot after the distupgrade resulted in a never before seen white nokia screen with blue status bar, and a reboot Feb 17 03:45:32 looks like it booted up fine into my desktop Feb 17 03:45:37 hello Feb 17 03:45:39 keeping fingers crossed that I dont have to reflash Feb 17 03:47:12 here's an idea. an os that can rollback after an update and failed reboot. Feb 17 03:47:18 hurrr durrr Feb 17 03:47:26 your question could be put that way: what application manager does that differ from apt-get? Feb 17 03:47:34 pupnik_, doable. Feb 17 03:47:55 pupnik_, but doing the backup would be rather time consuming Feb 17 03:48:00 pupnik_: I've tried to advance rollbacks on the debian lists for many years now. Even rpm had this feature for a few minor releases, then they pulled it back Feb 17 03:48:06 ptl, a few. Feb 17 03:49:03 epic failure Feb 17 03:49:04 it's 'doable', in the way that it can be somewhat easily be put to work, but to harden and foolproof this is really difficult Feb 17 03:49:15 I still show my version as 2.2009.51.1 002 Feb 17 03:49:17 :( Feb 17 03:49:27 lemme check my version Feb 17 03:49:33 kamui, check the version on apt. Feb 17 03:49:35 I upgraded via the app manager Feb 17 03:49:42 kamui, sometimes that field doesn't update properly. Feb 17 03:49:42 ptl, i wasn't seriously suggesting it was an original idea :) can you point to any googleable stuff on implementation? Feb 17 03:50:03 apt 0.7.20.2maemo13 for armel compiled on Jan 13 2010 16:46:05 Feb 17 03:50:05 * andrewfblack wonders if nokia will keep maemo.org for n8x0 users? Feb 17 03:50:07 version: 3.2010.02-8.002 Feb 17 03:50:45 GeneralAntilles, what version do you have? I saw apt get upgraded in the dist upgrade Feb 17 03:50:52 so I wonder if everything is mostyl fine Feb 17 03:50:53 this is going to bug me though :) Feb 17 03:51:57 pupnik_: http://lists.rpm.org/pipermail/rpm-list/2009-April/000226.html http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/7034 Feb 17 03:52:15 hey GeneralAntilles guess this is end of our nokia sponsored community outreach we had been working on> Feb 17 03:52:16 kamui, http://repository.maemo.org/stable/fremantle/maemo5.0_update3_vs_maemo5.0_update4_content_changes.html Feb 17 03:52:21 That took forever to find Feb 17 03:52:29 andrewfblack, why? Feb 17 03:52:43 kamui, I don't think Nokia has any plans to change the budget. Feb 17 03:53:19 GeneralAntilles: just figured don't know though Feb 17 03:53:40 Er, s/kamui/andrewfblack/ Feb 17 03:53:48 andrewfblack, qgil seems to say not. Feb 17 03:53:55 andrewfblack, I guess we'll just have to change out branding. Feb 17 03:54:04 pupnik_: If the change to rpm really sticks on meego, maybe we can re-use the rollback feature Feb 17 03:54:18 s/out/our Feb 17 03:54:19 anyone using twitter here? Feb 17 03:54:39 that might be a nice help. Feb 17 03:54:43 or more specifically: anyone know the twitter API? Feb 17 03:54:47 GeneralAntilles: I didn't know if qgil had said anything about the community outreach group after meego announcement Feb 17 03:55:09 crashanddie_: I use twitter but thats it lol Feb 17 03:55:18 ok, just explain some lingo Feb 17 03:55:19 now how about something more radical. a parallel flash that can track changes to filesystem and rollback when the device fails to boot at all Feb 17 03:55:22 what is a "direct message" Feb 17 03:55:26 is there a new maemo 5 sdk? Feb 17 03:55:36 crashanddie_: D user message on twitter. Feb 17 03:55:37 andrewfblack: are those the ones that start with @user bla bla bla? Feb 17 03:55:41 it's like a pvt on IRC Feb 17 03:55:42 andrewfblack, budget shouldn't be changing. Feb 17 03:55:49 only the user gets that Feb 17 03:55:53 andrewfblack, so seems like the outreach is still viable. Feb 17 03:56:09 ptl: ok, how do I get messages that have been sent to me? Feb 17 03:56:20 crashanddie_: I think so Feb 17 03:56:30 GeneralAntilles: ok Feb 17 03:57:00 i think 'rollback' might have helped me on one or two maemo packages in the past 3 years Feb 17 03:57:09 andrewfblack, I'm not sure if I want to do it anymore if I'm going to be running a MeeGo table, though. <_< Feb 17 03:57:24 but screwing up the device to non-bootable has happened a lot more Feb 17 03:57:57 GeneralAntilles: Your not getting out of community spirit are you? Feb 17 03:58:09 GeneralAntilles IS the community spirit Feb 17 03:58:14 :P Feb 17 03:58:45 andrewfblack, no, I'd just be embarrassed to sit behind a "MeeGo" table all day. :P Feb 17 03:58:47 to some uncertain degree of precision Feb 17 03:59:11 GeneralAntilles: lol Feb 17 04:02:25 crashanddie_: there's a long time I don't access twitter, but I think there's a side panel where you can read private messages Feb 17 04:02:50 GeneralAntilles: even for a fine meal like you had last time? Feb 17 04:02:53 ptl: I'm not on the website, just using the API Feb 17 04:03:19 andrewfblack, mmm . . . ham on white Feb 17 04:03:41 GeneralAntilles: it was free lol Feb 17 04:03:59 hmm.. the N900 won't charge with just half an amp, will it Feb 17 04:05:20 GeneralAntilles: I found out SELF is going to be 3 days this year Feb 17 04:05:33 Yerg Feb 17 04:05:49 sheepbat: Via usb you mean? it does for me, unless I am really using it Feb 17 04:05:57 LOL Feb 17 04:06:02 yeah, via USB Feb 17 04:06:17 my N900's notification light JUST TURNED GREEN Feb 17 04:06:24 like as I was typing!!!! Feb 17 04:06:28 hahaha Feb 17 04:06:32 yeah Feb 17 04:06:42 or.. Feb 17 04:06:44 Feb 17 04:06:45 Ironic much? Feb 17 04:06:48 yes Feb 17 04:06:50 that was perfect Feb 17 04:09:11 sheepbat: do you have batery-eye? Feb 17 04:09:19 battery-eye Feb 17 04:09:49 yeah Feb 17 04:09:50 hrm Feb 17 04:09:58 I seem to have.. done something to it Feb 17 04:10:06 really? Feb 17 04:10:08 * andrewfblack wonders if I should keep working on themes or wait to see what Meego UI will be Feb 17 04:10:09 overall, not just battery-eye... Feb 17 04:10:18 the launcher isn't working Feb 17 04:10:23 I just installed the latest flasher kernel Feb 17 04:10:40 everything else works though Feb 17 04:10:41 I have battery info im my conky now, after some scripting Feb 17 04:11:01 I cant get the latest Maemo update, as I have no SIM card Feb 17 04:11:31 you can borrow mine Feb 17 04:11:32 :) Feb 17 04:11:56 just buy a $10 prepay one or something Feb 17 04:11:57 Fax it to me :-D Feb 17 04:11:58 wow Feb 17 04:12:03 lol Feb 17 04:12:04 stellarium seems to work Feb 17 04:12:06 a little slow Feb 17 04:12:08 yeah, I am going to Feb 17 04:12:09 but still Feb 17 04:12:10 working! Feb 17 04:12:11 some time... Feb 17 04:12:29 I wonder if I can compile Blender to work on my N900 Feb 17 04:12:41 already done Wild_Doogy Feb 17 04:12:46 I have a optimized build Feb 17 04:12:49 still not really useable Feb 17 04:13:00 and Ironic, again, my latest Blender SVN just finished (2 minutes ago) Feb 17 04:13:01 im writing a opengl to gles wrapper to further the project Feb 17 04:13:10 really? Feb 17 04:13:12 blender 2.5alpha Feb 17 04:13:15 look at my youtube video Feb 17 04:13:17 would you happen to know the command that launches the app manager? Feb 17 04:13:21 should give you a good feel for performance Feb 17 04:13:23 or the package name of the kernel? Feb 17 04:13:26 oh, I think I found it Feb 17 04:13:29 thanks Feb 17 04:14:37 I have the proejcrt on garage Feb 17 04:14:56 as soon as I get a chance to package up the binaries, Ill put the current working build up Feb 17 04:15:12 lag time is about 1.5 - 2 seconds due to the overhead of full software opengl rendering Feb 17 04:17:12 well, remember, its running on a phone >_> Feb 17 04:17:27 oh, it is unfair to cal lthe N900 a phone, but still Feb 17 04:19:05 ultraphone? Feb 17 04:19:54 its a phone sized computer with a phone app Feb 17 04:20:08 and a GSM modem Feb 17 04:20:09 yeah Feb 17 04:20:23 it's a MID with phone-like attributes Feb 17 04:20:24 and GPS, and an accelerometer Feb 17 04:20:32 like how I'm a bat with sheep-like attributes Feb 17 04:20:40 Wild_Doogy, this isn't new territory Feb 17 04:20:53 I only did it because pocketblender on the windows mobile platofrm works very very well Feb 17 04:21:19 and the author wrote a small opengl-gles wrapper software only that substantially improved its responsiveness Feb 17 04:22:29 I am just still amazed at how amazing my N900 is. Feb 17 04:22:37 I just installed navit on n900 Feb 17 04:22:42 I can't operate it Feb 17 04:22:44 yea, N900 is so awesome Feb 17 04:22:51 does anyone have any experience with it? Feb 17 04:22:54 pray for meego Feb 17 04:22:59 pray for it not to destroy the N900's future Feb 17 04:23:09 the only trouble, and I am sure you all agree is the battery capacity. Feb 17 04:23:14 praying does not help Feb 17 04:23:17 i have 4 batteries Feb 17 04:23:24 haha Feb 17 04:23:26 yeah, thats my plan too Feb 17 04:23:26 try bitching on the forums Feb 17 04:23:28 but it alliviates the frustration Feb 17 04:23:29 and the tiny NAND flash Feb 17 04:23:31 it also does not help Feb 17 04:23:33 *alleviates Feb 17 04:23:56 I havent worked it hard enough to need more NAND, but the day is coming Feb 17 04:24:17 root fs is somewhat small Feb 17 04:24:19 256 megs Feb 17 04:24:31 itdocks: how do you charge the 3 that are not in the phone? Feb 17 04:24:37 accessory charger Feb 17 04:24:44 find 'em on ebay hehe Feb 17 04:25:32 what's a "NAND" flash? is it the RAM of the device? Feb 17 04:25:41 I was just going to do some fancy wiring >_> (after research of course, not silly enough to just cross the leads on a lithium ion battery.) Feb 17 04:25:52 good way to set things on fire Feb 17 04:25:53 :P Feb 17 04:26:00 ptl, rootfs. Feb 17 04:26:10 3000 degrees. yes Feb 17 04:26:26 GeneralAntilles: oh. ok Feb 17 04:28:13 does anyone know how to get conky 1.7.2 on my N900? Feb 17 04:30:54 Get the arm dev, and hunt the needed packeges? Feb 17 04:31:00 Wild_Doogy: http://cgi.ebay.com/Wall-Charger-For-Nokia-Nokia-5800-5800XM-BL-5J-Battery_W0QQitemZ320483261019QQcmdZViewItemQQptZPDA_Accessories?hash=item4a9e4a7a5b Feb 17 04:31:09 i have 2 of 'em they work great Feb 17 04:31:17 won't charge fully charged batteries either, so it's safe Feb 17 04:31:18 sweet, thanks Feb 17 04:31:46 6 bucks freeshipping? Feb 17 04:31:49 nice! Feb 17 04:38:46 that is cheap Feb 17 04:39:21 yeah well worth it Feb 17 04:43:55 lol... Feb 17 04:44:08 I just gave iTunes a big folder with songs to import from the N900 Feb 17 04:44:24 within 20 seconds it found "desktop.ini" and died Feb 17 04:44:49 heh Feb 17 04:46:17 hahaha Feb 17 04:47:31 now a linux program would output to the terminal something like "unknown file "desktop.ini" error 3 unknown format. .........Skipped" Feb 17 04:47:41 and be fine........ Feb 17 04:48:46 Wild_Doogy: no, it wouldn't you idiot Feb 17 04:49:31 * GeneralAntilles hands crashanddie_ some chocolate. Feb 17 04:49:42 GeneralAntilles: thanks Feb 17 04:49:43 And why not? :-) thats a perfectly plausible error output Feb 17 04:50:01 Wild_Doogy: don't think that Linux applications are more stable because they run on LInux Feb 17 04:50:27 that's pretty much what my rhythmbox does Feb 17 04:50:27 if you import an unknown filetype it bugs you about it every time you load up rhythmbox. "do you want to try to download a codec to play foo.jpg?" Feb 17 04:50:31 anyone gotten fMMS to receive MMSs on AT&T? Feb 17 04:50:41 jX, yes. Feb 17 04:50:53 Wild_Doogy: an app is only as good as the coder who writes it -- and sadly, the quality standard that Linux is used to is a far cry from polished apps that come with a commercial OS Feb 17 04:51:08 agreed, but that want my point. Linux apps are (IMHO) more adaptable, and less apt to crash Feb 17 04:51:24 Gen: Great, tips on settings? I can't get it to work, and someone just sent me an MMS. :) Feb 17 04:51:29 Wild_Doogy: I remember the day that Gimp crashed when you tried to open .RAW -- it knew it was an image, so tried to open it with whatever codec was available, which didn't go far Feb 17 04:51:41 jX, connected to data? Feb 17 04:51:58 Wild_Doogy: then your opinion is biased and childish Feb 17 04:52:10 well I actualy havent used gimp in a while, but point taken Feb 17 04:52:17 gen: Are you asking if I am on wifi or have a usable data connection via edge? Then yes Feb 17 04:52:30 (both, on wifi at home, have data too) Feb 17 04:52:30 Gotta be connected to EDGE Feb 17 04:52:33 ahh Feb 17 04:52:36 lemme turn off the wifi Feb 17 04:52:48 Wild_Doogy: granted, it was ten years ago -- and I'm pretty sure the iTunes crash was caused by other things as well. That being said, I just found it funny that it crashed, I wasn't intending on beginning any kind of bashing Feb 17 04:53:04 I should have said, "in my experience" but yes, my opinion is not that weighted. Feb 17 04:53:23 gen: And how should the number be formatted, +1ACNUM, 1ACNUM or jsut ACNUM? Feb 17 04:53:47 ooh wesnoth Feb 17 04:53:47 +1 Feb 17 04:54:24 failed. :( Feb 17 04:54:31 .....228MB =( Feb 17 04:54:56 jX, maybe check your settings against those in the wiki. Feb 17 04:55:04 what am I doing wrong... yeah, lemme look at that again. Feb 17 04:55:45 the only options I see I can set are the MMSC, resize image, and my phone number. my APN choices are only AT&T Internet or T Mobile Internet Feb 17 04:56:11 I assume teh APN is right since I can get connectivity with other apps Feb 17 04:56:17 crash: I found it funny as well, and I having a debate is fine, as long as it is done with the brain. :-) Feb 17 04:56:29 jX, check the APN settings. Feb 17 04:56:49 I haven't a clue where to find those in Maemo 5. Feb 17 04:56:57 ahh Feb 17 04:57:41 AHA! Feb 17 04:57:43 i BET THIS IS IT Feb 17 04:57:46 about the question I had earlier, does anyone know how to get the newest conky on the N900? Feb 17 04:57:46 sry caps Feb 17 05:00:32 jX: do you have MMS enabled with your provider? it has to be enabled separately from IP, at least in the UK Feb 17 05:01:10 [00:00] hmm, is there a way to create a new GPRS connection? Feb 17 05:01:10 [00:00] I can only seem to create new wifi connections Feb 17 05:01:20 fAPN Feb 17 05:01:27 pardon? Feb 17 05:01:34 The application Feb 17 05:01:49 oh Feb 17 05:01:49 ok Feb 17 05:01:52 lemme grab that Feb 17 05:02:56 <|R> what's up with "Raw bird power" being on the ovi store? (I can't see it :P) Feb 17 05:07:41 hrm Feb 17 05:11:37 <|R> http://twitter.com/WeAreMaemo/status/7752738918 <- ?? Feb 17 05:13:35 jeezalou... Feb 17 05:15:23 GAH. What the hell am I doing wrong? Feb 17 05:15:40 Why is it that Ovi reviews are NEVER in English? Feb 17 05:16:36 omg it works Feb 17 05:16:40 GeneralAntilles++ Feb 17 05:20:23 Hey chaps, here is a great project / app that I am working on: I help manage a church tower clock. As it is winter here in Vermont, the clock has been running inaccurately as the pendulum changes length. Using the Mic on my N900 I am able to messure the period by recording the clicking of the main escapement. Feb 17 05:22:57 heh. cool. Feb 17 05:24:45 yeah, the mic's resolution isn't that great, if its off by one sample, then thats 27 seconds in a week Feb 17 05:25:32 but..... if you do 10 clicks then you have 2.7, and then average it out..... Feb 17 05:30:23 you know, these phones also have the internet and nts Feb 17 05:31:29 nts? Feb 17 05:31:36 hmm Feb 17 05:31:37 ntp Feb 17 05:31:40 network time protocol Feb 17 05:32:04 yes, mine seems to update its time Feb 17 05:32:24 the cell provider also provides time Feb 17 05:33:05 and GPS provides time Feb 17 05:33:05 so yeah, covered in all respects Feb 17 05:33:30 seems a hell of a lot easier than measuring pendulm swings Feb 17 05:34:06 the trouble with the clock isnt setting the time, thats easy, its ajustingthe speed Feb 17 05:34:18 http://www.nokia.com/NOKIA_COM_1/Technology/pdf/Nokia_software_strategy_white_paper.pdf Feb 17 05:34:26 which wanders nastily lol Feb 17 06:14:50 Someone posted a link to a n900 battery charger. Feb 17 06:14:50 Here is a link to a charger + battery for $10 with free shipping. though you guys might like it Feb 17 06:14:50 http://cgi.ebay.com/Charger-BL-5J-Battery-Screen-Protector-For-Nokia-N900_W0QQitemZ280466191775QQcmdZViewItemQQptZPDA_Accessories?hash=item414d16759f Feb 17 06:19:18 I love how they reused the Maemo architecture diagram put subbed in MeeGo. Feb 17 06:19:19 Ugh Feb 17 06:19:20 MeeGo Feb 17 06:19:22 * GeneralAntilles cries. Feb 17 06:20:25 Yea, that was cute Feb 17 06:20:40 But the presentation in general is nothing new, unfortunately Feb 17 06:24:05 It's so depressingly stupid Feb 17 06:31:24 Any idea on the status of the post-n900 ? Feb 17 06:31:57 one new device, running only one maemo version :) Feb 17 06:32:22 okay, maybe two devices. Feb 17 06:32:42 Maybe only a minor update .. improved battery life a feature? Feb 17 06:38:02 GeneralAntilles: ping Feb 17 06:38:16 pong Feb 17 06:38:44 I think I've found the anthem for MeeGo Feb 17 06:39:00 o_O Feb 17 06:39:45 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGZWAoXy-C4 Feb 17 06:41:04 crashanddie_, nah, that's Frontier Psychiatrist. Feb 17 06:43:08 err... fremantle update? Feb 17 06:44:23 slonopotamus, small one. Feb 17 06:44:24 PR1.1.1 Feb 17 06:44:40 slonopotamus, see the end of the topic. Feb 17 06:45:08 oh, right Feb 17 06:45:11 since konttori said 1.2 is soon due, I'm guesing this is yet another "stepping stone"? Feb 17 06:46:50 ' * Disables apt-get from installing ovi store content ' Feb 17 06:46:53 err... wut? Feb 17 06:49:46 Haha, is that how they did it? Feb 17 06:49:47 Awesome. Feb 17 06:49:48 Fail. Feb 17 06:50:23 So, um, who's going to package up a PR1.1 apt? :D Feb 17 06:54:41 they really should think about doing some access control on the server side... Feb 17 06:58:14 I guess a simple stopgap is enough for now, but I still wonder what in their server end is so messed up that they could not solve this properly Feb 17 06:58:41 of course Ovi is a completely different unit and all which makes things complicated... Feb 17 06:58:51 s/unit/business unit/ Feb 17 06:58:51 mashiara meant: of course Ovi is a completely different business unit and all which makes things complicated... Feb 17 07:01:31 argh! why? why delete button is disabled when you open email from yellow popup??? Feb 17 07:02:02 Could someone else verify that the latest kernel source package cannot build usable debs and then perhaps file a bug Feb 17 07:02:25 slonopotamus: In soviet (finland?) russia - mail delete you! Feb 17 07:02:51 I mean as-is, I spent the last evening and this morning patching the rules and control for http://mobilehotspot.garage.maemo.org/ Feb 17 07:03:05 and I had to do a lot more patching than for PR1.1 Feb 17 07:03:52 and it looks like the stock rules/control yield basically useless debs (modules not stripped so they 50MB space etc...) Feb 17 07:03:56 fail @ Maemo update, what nokia pc software, unless they did linux version which i doubt -__- Feb 17 07:04:28 there is a CLI flasher that works in linux and OSX Feb 17 07:04:47 mashiara: so only whole device reflash will work? Feb 17 07:04:53 (except my OSX where there is a weird conflict somewhere, but I have weird stuff installed) Feb 17 07:05:06 no update from running phone like before? -__- Feb 17 07:05:30 you can update from phone if you have the free space Feb 17 07:05:35 torindel, just updated without problems. Feb 17 07:05:54 and haven't installed too much crap that conflicts with builtin software I guess Feb 17 07:06:03 torindel: I'm confused now, AFAIK the nokia windows updater is flasher too Feb 17 07:06:50 torindel: updating in-device works unless something prevents it from working (like weird devel packages or too full rootfs), as said above Feb 17 07:15:17 has anyone ran into issues from enabling/disabling testing/devel. For example. Enable testing and it installs a package and some libs. Then disable it. Now install something and it was compiled against a lib in normal, but i have the lib from testing Feb 17 07:15:31 not sure how to explain it Feb 17 07:16:20 i guess it wouldnt matter unless it was core stuff Feb 17 07:19:35 bug #9095. vote! Feb 17 07:19:37 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9095 Delete button disabled when email is opened from yellow notification Feb 17 07:35:17 slonopotamus: you delete email? 0.o Feb 17 07:36:00 Morning, all Feb 17 07:36:13 morning Jaffa Feb 17 07:44:09 konttori_work: ping (questions about menu structure in PR 1.2) Feb 17 07:50:47 Jaffa, pong Feb 17 07:51:33 * Stskeeps tries to catch up with talk.maemo.org Feb 17 07:52:25 I don't go there much but I guess trolls are having a field day what w/ the meeto and all that? Feb 17 07:52:46 i like to compare it to screaming people inside a burning house Feb 17 07:52:53 :-D Feb 17 07:55:05 some people can actually use forums like irc Feb 17 07:55:13 talk for pages and pages about nothing Feb 17 07:58:18 *some*?? Feb 17 08:02:10 !thresh++ Feb 17 08:02:21 FAILBUS TICKET, wooooooooo Feb 17 08:02:26 ~thresh++ Feb 17 08:02:31 :o Feb 17 08:07:05 mashiara: what new kernel version? Feb 17 08:07:22 20100303+0m5 Feb 17 08:07:31 i don't see it. Feb 17 08:07:43 in http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo5.0/free/k/kernel/ Feb 17 08:08:00 unless you mean a internal release Feb 17 08:08:22 hmmm, I wonder if I'm getting this from some -devel repo... Feb 17 08:09:04 yeah, extras-devel Feb 17 08:09:08 konttori_work: someone's suggested Catorise will have "serious issues", wondering if /etc/xdg/menus/hildon.menu isn't the root anymore Feb 17 08:09:10 it indeed looked mighty half-baked Feb 17 08:09:18 good morning Feb 17 08:09:27 mashiara: could you report this issue to extras-devel for me? Feb 17 08:09:45 there isn't supposed to be a 'kernel' source package in extras-devel Feb 17 08:10:04 err, to maemo-developers/community Feb 17 08:12:10 sure Feb 17 08:12:15 * mashiara bangs head to the wall Feb 17 08:12:32 I spent *a lot* of time fixing a non-issue Feb 17 08:12:49 just because someone from collabora did not think things through Feb 17 08:13:04 mashiara: pitchforks and molotov cocktails time, obviously Feb 17 08:16:10 so, this is probably going to make me sound monumentally dumb but I have a query Feb 17 08:17:14 when I got up this morning and touched my phone's screen it was displaying a more "traditional" touchscreen's "swipe across here to unlock" thing that i've never seen before, any idea how to intentionally use that rather than locking it via deactivating the screen entirely as normal on the switch? Feb 17 08:17:36 touch the power button Feb 17 08:17:54 select lock screen and keys Feb 17 08:18:02 touch the power button again Feb 17 08:18:22 oh cunning, can lock it using either method but the power button to wake it instead of the lock switch displays the screen Feb 17 08:18:23 neat, ta Feb 17 08:19:52 nid0: you can press power button twice to make locking faster Feb 17 08:20:24 * tybollt is dissapointed in Stskeeps - you forgot tar and feathers ;P Feb 17 08:20:58 yeah ta I knew that one, will probably stick to the slider switch to lock it, but getting the screen display with the clock without unlocking it entirely is handy, I never knew that was there till accidentally seeing it this morning Feb 17 08:20:58 xt: woah, i never knew that Feb 17 08:26:28 stskeeps: http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-community/2010-February/003940.html Feb 17 08:26:38 thanks Feb 17 08:31:11 is Qt 4.6 for fremantle final? Feb 17 08:31:33 oh wow Feb 17 08:31:39 calendar will suck a lot less Feb 17 08:31:47 * timeless_mbp hearts 1.2 Feb 17 08:32:05 timeless_mbp, oh.. OH! When will I have it? Feb 17 08:32:14 mece: i don't read tea leaves Feb 17 08:32:16 you're welcome to try Feb 17 08:32:19 * tybollt ! <3 the silly dialogs in HAM Feb 17 08:32:20 before hell freezes Feb 17 08:32:26 "yeah, right" wtf is that? :-S Feb 17 08:32:27 (hopefully) Feb 17 08:32:32 tybollt: did you see my pictures of ham? Feb 17 08:32:42 timeless_mbp: Where do I look? Feb 17 08:32:43 I love ham for breakfast Feb 17 08:32:52 mmmmh ham *drools* Feb 17 08:32:52 timeless_mbp, I prefer salami. Feb 17 08:32:58 err sorry wrong person Feb 17 08:33:05 ham isn't kosher Feb 17 08:33:10 timeless_mbp, how does calendar suck less in 1.2 then? Feb 17 08:33:17 mece: i couldn't say Feb 17 08:33:26 timeless_mbp, but it does? Feb 17 08:33:31 hypothetically Feb 17 08:33:35 :) Feb 17 08:34:04 actually, not the calendar Feb 17 08:34:06 calendaring Feb 17 08:34:18 i see. Feb 17 08:36:54 timeless_mbp++ Feb 17 08:44:50 I love you ?DCC SEND STARTKEYLOGGER' Feb 17 08:52:27 moo wazd Feb 17 08:52:41 RST38h: heya Feb 17 08:52:45 hello everyone Feb 17 08:52:57 hello Dr Nick! Feb 17 08:53:07 ehr wazd Feb 17 08:55:01 jebba: ping Feb 17 09:01:19 Stskeeps: tekojo told to ask you :-] Feb 17 09:01:31 Antti_Alien: about? :) Feb 17 09:01:32 hi, i'm trying to create a customized rootfs image to set up a large number of devices Feb 17 09:01:45 ah, just my alley :) Feb 17 09:02:03 but, i need them to be uninstallable Feb 17 09:02:08 Antti_Alien: by devices you mean n900? Feb 17 09:02:13 yeah Feb 17 09:02:25 k, should we take this in private message? Feb 17 09:02:33 okay Feb 17 09:09:51 is there a rss feed available of the extras-testing repository? I monitor added applications Feb 17 09:10:17 Flyser: No, not atm. On my todo list. Feb 17 09:10:25 okay. Feb 17 09:16:27 shit >:-( Not enough free storage for PR1.1.1 Feb 17 09:16:49 -> disable repo -> install -> enable repo Feb 17 09:16:53 no big deal mate Feb 17 09:17:37 uhu. Also when I completely cleaned /var/cache/apt? Feb 17 09:20:57 Flyser: there is a program.. appwatch Feb 17 09:21:58 tybollt: which repos to disable? Feb 17 09:22:08 DocScrutinizer: no worry, just free rootfs by moving things to /home + symlink Feb 17 09:22:59 what o move? Feb 17 09:23:33 /var/lib? Feb 17 09:23:53 /usr? Feb 17 09:23:56 http://wiki.maemo.org/Free_up_rootfs_space Feb 17 09:24:38 * DocScrutinizer mumbles swearwords Feb 17 09:24:47 ~optification Feb 17 09:24:48 hmm... optification is a botch to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the partitioning is FUBAR Feb 17 09:27:24 man Feb 17 09:27:33 flipclock has some weirdest ui Feb 17 09:27:45 plus it is so slow I dont know how it works :D Feb 17 09:34:02 I want to see that video again from dui framework announcement, but it's no longer to be found anywhere? :( Feb 17 09:34:12 yeah, i was wondering why that got pulled as well Feb 17 09:35:39 Off of youtube? Feb 17 09:37:03 Yes. Feb 17 09:37:37 Curious, google consipiracy? ^.^ Feb 17 09:37:40 See http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3Jk0FETBB4 :) Feb 17 09:37:54 dui framework? Feb 17 09:38:10 Removed by user aye ,,, Interesting ... Feb 17 09:38:32 Even the blog post referring to it was removed (http://karoliinamaemoblog.blogspot.com/2010/02/maemo-6-ui-framework-open-sourcing.html) Feb 17 09:38:53 Weird .. Feb 17 09:38:58 I bet they got told off ... Feb 17 09:39:09 Guess so. Feb 17 09:39:36 Which is odd, because I thought they got asked to do it? That's at least the impression I got from something he said in the video. Feb 17 09:41:48 It remains Widget Gallery Feb 17 09:45:20 uuu,an update for maemo 5 Feb 17 09:45:32 damn that's heavy :( Feb 17 09:46:13 heavy? Feb 17 09:46:39 the widget gallery app is slow... Feb 17 09:50:26 battle of wesnoth takes ages to initialize Feb 17 09:50:34 I'm not sure if this is compiled properly Feb 17 09:50:39 TomaszD: s/initialize/start/ Feb 17 09:50:50 one doesn't use "initialize" in common speech Feb 17 09:51:03 generally anywhere that Nokia uses it in the n900 ui is a bug Feb 17 09:51:16 * timeless_mbp has eradicated most instances Feb 17 09:51:21 :) Feb 17 09:51:41 wesnoth now says "initializing screen" Feb 17 09:51:58 right, that's a bug Feb 17 09:52:11 using big words is generally wrong Feb 17 09:52:30 I think that's debatable, I encourage you to file a bug with wesnoth though Feb 17 09:52:52 konttori_work: speaking of linguistics, did you file a bug about the untranslated string? :) Feb 17 09:53:08 TomaszD: give me a picture and steps to reproduce and i'll file it :) Feb 17 10:00:34 timeless_mbp, http://imgur.com/RrHs2.png Feb 17 10:00:43 it's in Polish though Feb 17 10:00:53 but I don't believe the original translation is "starting" Feb 17 10:00:54 :) Feb 17 10:01:01 TomaszD: heh Feb 17 10:01:04 yeah, somehow i doubt it Feb 17 10:01:06 ugh Feb 17 10:01:11 localizers don't tend to be particularly creative Feb 17 10:01:25 why does symbian^3 release look like a description of Hildon? :S Feb 17 10:01:40 what ? Feb 17 10:01:55 "The Homescreen takes a big step forward with support for multiple pages of widgets and a simple flick gesture to move between them. The widget manager makes discovery and download of new widgets simple and support for multiple instances of a native widget means that consumers can monitor multiple weather forecasts, news feeds, social networking accounts or multiple email accounts simultaneously through a common interface." Feb 17 10:02:03 timeless_mbp, the Polish l10n of wesnoth is actually very good, can't blame them for sticking with the original Feb 17 10:02:23 it's a matter of not having some guidelines estabilished, which we (GNOME) already have Feb 17 10:03:14 tybollt, so hildon is a poor cousin, we don't have a widget manager with downloading capabilities Feb 17 10:04:32 tybollt: oh the directions Symbian and Maemo are moving in are really amusing Feb 17 10:04:58 timeless_mbp, come on, share your opinion, I'm curious Feb 17 10:04:59 :) Feb 17 10:05:03 they're trying very hard to trade places :) Feb 17 10:05:16 the grass is greener on the other side :) Feb 17 10:05:19 is it just me or after yesterdays update I don't seem to be able to change volume with the zoom-button Feb 17 10:05:46 TriztFromWork, just you probably, in what circumstances though? Feb 17 10:06:49 TomaszD; when on a virtual desktop, no active programs, in the media player listening to music Feb 17 10:06:51 timeless_mbp, Symbian^3 is open source and I'd hazard a guess that it's more mature than Maemo :) Why do they stick with efforts on both Feb 17 10:07:17 TriztFromWork, so it doesn't work anywhere? Feb 17 10:07:39 TomaszD: that's like asking a person "why do you breathe, there's another person over there who's older and breathes better" Feb 17 10:07:58 TriztFromWork: works here Feb 17 10:08:21 oh timeless_mbp and his misjudged similies, breathing is essential for life, can't be compared with OS platforms Feb 17 10:08:29 TomaszD; I need each time to get the system menu and use the volume control there to set the volume Feb 17 10:08:43 TomaszD: you think os platforms aren't made by organizations? Feb 17 10:08:50 should organizations not breathe? Feb 17 10:09:18 TriztFromWork: does this happen in Notes? Feb 17 10:09:46 timeless_mbp, should they not be re-structured, re-organized to get behind one common platform instead of doing it like everyone is for themselves? Feb 17 10:09:58 timeless_mbp; one moment Feb 17 10:10:05 so which do you suggest they abandon? Feb 17 10:10:18 TomaszD: if 90% of the people are working on stuff which has competing engineers Feb 17 10:10:25 and competing managers Feb 17 10:10:36 I have no idea, it's a very tough decision Feb 17 10:10:45 then restructuring is roughly equivalent to deleting 95% of the people Feb 17 10:10:58 timeless_mbp, TomaszD, rom1dep; seems I needed yeat another reboot Feb 17 10:11:01 asking an entity why it bothers breathing isn't likely to result in happiness Feb 17 10:11:16 so it's about the people, not about the end goal of... profit Feb 17 10:11:33 I know, no-one ever said it would be easy Feb 17 10:11:39 um Feb 17 10:11:48 it would make sense though, disregarding feelings of people for a moment Feb 17 10:11:49 the goal of the organization is for its people to profit Feb 17 10:12:02 the 4 platforms are for different hw anyway, at some point it stops making sense trying to make one thing scalable across entire range :/ Feb 17 10:12:08 that it happens to conflict with some other organization with a similar goal elsewhere w/in the larger organization Feb 17 10:12:11 well, that happens Feb 17 10:12:20 timeless_mbp; people to profit or stock woner profit? Feb 17 10:12:31 TriztFromWork: people are selfish Feb 17 10:12:33 especially here Feb 17 10:12:43 why would it make sense? notwithstanding the fact that symbian and maemo/meego are for different devices, why should/would nokia restrict themselves by just abandoning one? Feb 17 10:13:02 nid0: they both make software Feb 17 10:13:05 obviously they're the same Feb 17 10:13:05 I know next to nothing about restructuring companies, but I'm sure most people could stay, once the company gets behind the turmoil, turns a bigger profit as a result of being more focused, then they could hire more people again Feb 17 10:13:07 they're abandoning one? Feb 17 10:13:09 timeless_mbp; sure we are, but there are a few how work for a common goal instead of own economical profit Feb 17 10:13:11 and obviously they could save money Feb 17 10:13:13 I am trying to install the new Maemo 5 update on my N900. The Application Manager claims that 16 Mb free space is requited. By uninstalling *all* my downloaded Aps, I have freed 30 Mb in rootfs. But when I try to install the update, I get the message "Not enough space on trarget". Does anyone know why I can't update with 30 Mb free? Feb 17 10:13:22 TriztFromWork: s/how/who/ ? Feb 17 10:13:32 Ken-Young, you need >42MB Feb 17 10:13:43 Ken-Young: disable extras-devel and extras-testing Feb 17 10:13:46 reboot Feb 17 10:14:04 does that mean the string is bad? Feb 17 10:14:05 Thanks! I'll try that. Feb 17 10:14:07 timeless_mbp; maybe just Stallman Feb 17 10:15:09 timeless_mbp; sorry, missed that you fixed my typo Feb 17 10:15:40 Just out of curiousity, whay does mearly having Extras-testing and Extras-Devel chew up megabytes of space on rootfs? Feb 17 10:15:58 the repo cache is stored there Feb 17 10:16:12 A local copy of the list of apps available is made. It's huge for extras-devel Feb 17 10:16:15 And that takes *megabytes*? Feb 17 10:16:22 yes, extras-devel is massive Feb 17 10:16:24 16 or so Feb 17 10:16:31 Geez! Feb 17 10:16:46 * TriztFromWork sees he has to do something about that at next update Feb 17 10:17:28 TriztFromWork: the next real update should probably fix some of this stuff Feb 17 10:17:37 although i suspect it'll be *after* the update, instead of before Feb 17 10:17:52 I guess that will be the case :) Feb 17 10:17:52 konttori seemed to indicate that we're going to optify stuff Feb 17 10:18:17 Is it possible to set up some soft links, and "optify" the repo cache? Feb 17 10:18:42 timeless: make the autobuilder optify by default I say Feb 17 10:18:56 ShadowJK: for the system packages? Feb 17 10:19:00 that would be interesting Feb 17 10:19:08 nah for extras-* Feb 17 10:19:08 just move X11 to /opt and /bin/mount to /opt Feb 17 10:19:13 and watch the system not boot :) Feb 17 10:19:18 yes Feb 17 10:20:08 just a theoretical question, you would need custom kernel if you would make user "home" to be ext3 instead of vfat? Feb 17 10:20:28 /home is ext3 on n900 Feb 17 10:21:21 MyDocs Feb 17 10:21:44 that one if vfat Feb 17 10:22:01 TriztFromWork: it doesn't require a custom kernel Feb 17 10:22:04 but it will break apps Feb 17 10:22:07 and there is no fix Feb 17 10:22:17 :( Feb 17 10:22:26 so you need a really good reason to break support for windows, osx, camera, and other random devices Feb 17 10:22:39 * TriztFromWork only uses Linux Feb 17 10:22:48 => has no friends Feb 17 10:23:00 they have Linux Feb 17 10:23:02 timeless_mbp: the N presents MyDocs pretty much verbatim to the other end of the cable when connecting in "usb mass mode" right? Feb 17 10:23:13 tybollt: yep Feb 17 10:23:21 it's a hard disk w/ raw file system access Feb 17 10:23:31 you can scribble dark secrets in unused sectors Feb 17 10:23:37 (not a great idea, but hey!) Feb 17 10:23:51 i was thinking about making some sort of vfat emulating driver Feb 17 10:23:58 so it would present vfat to a PC Feb 17 10:24:00 jacekowski: you and what army? Feb 17 10:24:05 lol Feb 17 10:24:17 jacekowski: we aren't opposed Feb 17 10:24:28 yeah Feb 17 10:24:34 while underlying fs would be still ext3 Feb 17 10:24:41 Has anyone noticed any extra crawler traffic on their maemo related sites lately? Feb 17 10:24:44 and if your code is great, has no patent issues, is licensed properly and upstreamed, you can be sure we'll consider it Feb 17 10:24:45 How about a small iso9660 partition with autorun.inf installing ext3 driver Feb 17 10:24:46 but emulating VFAT like that will prove to be non trivial (at best) Feb 17 10:24:56 we? Feb 17 10:25:04 ShadowJK: you want people to trust nokia to write or distribute a kernel driver for windows? Feb 17 10:25:06 Newkia Feb 17 10:25:07 vfat has patent issues all over it Feb 17 10:25:12 do you know the horror stories about Apple's USB driver? Feb 17 10:25:16 it causes blue screens Feb 17 10:25:18 My server load has gone way up, and the only related thing I can think of is MeeGo announcement. Feb 17 10:25:21 have you seen nokia's windows apps? Feb 17 10:25:29 timeless_mbp: Do enlighten me, please Feb 17 10:25:32 they're even worse than apple's windows apps (and that's impressive) Feb 17 10:25:36 patent issues... does nokia lawyers have a list of patents they car about and which they dont... becayse everything is patented :\ Feb 17 10:25:45 TriztFromWork: read the TMO threads on reparitiong and efficient flash usage Feb 17 10:26:11 ShadowJK: patent numbers and descriptions are generally not shared Feb 17 10:26:18 timeless: the ext3 driver for windows already exists I think Feb 17 10:26:24 t-tan; TMO? Feb 17 10:26:31 knowing about patents is hazardous to your health and your employer's financial well-being Feb 17 10:26:42 TriztFromWork: TMO = talk.maemo.org Feb 17 10:26:45 ShadowJK: you would trust nokia to maintain updated versions of this driver? Feb 17 10:26:54 ShadowJK: nokia are so big that they don't need to care about patents. They can afford to play the suit <-> counter suit game for years on end until the other party (if BIG MONEY) settles out of court or (if small money) budges... Feb 17 10:26:56 the ext3 driver isn't part of microsoft, so it will never be installed by default Feb 17 10:27:07 fwiw Feb 17 10:27:16 if you're going to waste your time thinking about a driver for windows Feb 17 10:27:20 t-tan; ah, ok, I think I have those threads already bookmarked at home Feb 17 10:27:21 the one that makes sense is usb networking Feb 17 10:27:36 then you can use samba w/ windows Feb 17 10:27:38 * ShadowJK wouldnt even install nokia pc/ovi suite on anything Feb 17 10:27:41 besides, why n900 is using crappy slow unreliable ext3 Feb 17 10:27:45 instead of reiserf Feb 17 10:27:46 s Feb 17 10:27:53 oh, jacekowski 's a troll Feb 17 10:28:03 jacekowski: wrong. both a not flash optimized Feb 17 10:28:06 jfs had been cooler :P Feb 17 10:28:11 s/a/are/ Feb 17 10:28:11 t-tan meant: jarecekowski: wrong. both a not flash optimized Feb 17 10:28:13 jacekowski: it's the least bad for sd of the non-beta filesystems Feb 17 10:28:32 timeless_mbp++ Feb 17 10:28:53 * timeless_mbp wonders if this is his troll army Feb 17 10:29:01 do they code for you too, or just flood? Feb 17 10:29:06 reiserfs leaves dead files in the forest Feb 17 10:29:14 The crash behaviour of harddrives and flash differ alot. Feb 17 10:29:18 Corsac: do they make a sound? Feb 17 10:29:50 timeless_mbp: when they get beaten, maybe Feb 17 10:29:53 t-tan: from my personal experience reiser seems to be better Feb 17 10:30:02 reiserfs is the only filesystem I've had crash on me Feb 17 10:30:18 Lumpio-: crash ?= dataloss Feb 17 10:30:34 my hdd is dying and i'm not losing data :) Feb 17 10:30:42 iirc TomTom ran robustness tests by powercycling during writes to SD/MMC repeatedly, and vfat and ext3 were about the only ones that werent dead after the second cycle, let alone the 10th.. Feb 17 10:31:06 timeless_mbp: Likely data loss. Feb 17 10:31:24 nilfs2 looks interesting and should be even safer. we have in the custom kernel Feb 17 10:31:27 Lumpio-: reiserfs is only fs that never failed me Feb 17 10:31:32 There were a lot of files on that filesystem, and the... whatever tool recovered most of it in some 6 hours Feb 17 10:31:39 Lumpio-: and it even survived disk failure in my home LVM Feb 17 10:31:39 However I did get some 60k files in lost+found. Feb 17 10:31:48 * TriztFromWork seconds jacekowski Feb 17 10:31:55 Lumpio-: where it left empty holes in file system Feb 17 10:32:12 eh? Feb 17 10:32:14 but I do mostly use jfs as it goes to read only if it detects something wrong Feb 17 10:32:26 t-tan: Im running nilfs2 on my sheevaplug. It's fast, but I would not recommend it on n900. Feb 17 10:32:30 Lumpio-: LVM is something like raid but not really Feb 17 10:32:52 wtf does LVM have to do with this Feb 17 10:33:01 ShadowJK: why not? does it crash often? bugs? Feb 17 10:33:04 Lumpio-: that i has 2 disks in LVM Feb 17 10:33:07 Lumpio-: and one failed Feb 17 10:33:13 aah Feb 17 10:33:23 and except that data that was on failed HDD was lost Feb 17 10:33:23 I missed your line mentioning LVM Feb 17 10:33:31 FS as a whole survived Feb 17 10:33:46 t-tan: it does *alot* of rearranging of data in the background. It averages about .5Meg/second to a 4g usb key. That's tens of gigabytes per day. It's probably not good for longevity. Feb 17 10:33:56 batterylife too :) Feb 17 10:36:11 ShadowJK: thanks. that's interesting Feb 17 10:36:22 * ShadowJK wonders if btrfs still has the "slow ssd" mode Feb 17 10:36:47 but going back to FS on n900 Feb 17 10:36:54 why ext3 not ext2? Feb 17 10:36:55 ShadowJK: so what are the alternatives: brts, logfs? Feb 17 10:36:55 or if they abandoned it when people realized you should only buy intel and indilinx based Feb 17 10:37:05 t-tan: pretty much Feb 17 10:37:09 what are chances of power loss in middle of write Feb 17 10:37:13 I think meego will use btrfs Feb 17 10:37:28 on battery powered device Feb 17 10:37:37 jacekowski: that's where it often happens Feb 17 10:37:45 ever dropped your device? Feb 17 10:37:54 yes Feb 17 10:38:01 for btrfs we need a > 2.6.32 kernel on the N900 Feb 17 10:38:01 it is @quick way to remove battery really fast Feb 17 10:38:02 * timeless_mbp rotfl Feb 17 10:38:19 jacekowski: use call recording, and on a mobile phone the change of power loss in middle of write gets quite large :) Feb 17 10:38:24 jacekowski: your average user will probably trigger sudden power loss at least 10 times a year Feb 17 10:38:41 If IO pressure becomes too high so the watchdog daemons dont run often enough, the hardware will brutally reset your device during peak I/O activity Feb 17 10:38:47 now, if you don't care about your data, that's fine Feb 17 10:38:56 tigert: I found testing the "N900 fly" app is also good for quick battery removal Feb 17 10:39:07 but oddly, most people get very upset if an *important* piece of data is lost Feb 17 10:39:09 tybollt: yeah Feb 17 10:39:13 tybollt: heh Feb 17 10:39:17 hmm Feb 17 10:39:23 well, i've been using ext2 for years Feb 17 10:39:33 before people ever heard about ext3 Feb 17 10:39:37 how robust is n900fly? are my height records safe? ;) Feb 17 10:39:41 ShadowJK: decompression of the easydeb image doesn't trigger a reboot Feb 17 10:39:47 jacekowski: that's usually the the order, yes :) Feb 17 10:39:51 jacekowski: how is that relevant? Feb 17 10:39:58 jacekowski: ext2 then ext3 Feb 17 10:40:01 that it was reliable enough Feb 17 10:40:04 were you using it on a battery powered contraption? Feb 17 10:40:09 t-tan: it does not Feb 17 10:40:14 mains powered Feb 17 10:40:14 jacekowski: the stuff your smoking... Feb 17 10:40:17 it isn't great stuff Feb 17 10:40:25 i'd suggest you contact your dealer and ask for something else Feb 17 10:40:30 lol Feb 17 10:40:47 I've had data loss on mains powered ext2, that sucked Feb 17 10:40:47 ShadowJK: that's what I said. so when is I/O too high? Feb 17 10:40:58 ext3 is more <3 Feb 17 10:41:02 Jaffa, I missed your comment. Feb 17 10:41:09 I was in meeting. Could you repeat it? Feb 17 10:41:19 transmission does some crazy i/o too Feb 17 10:41:26 Lynoure: i had a laptop where i was running it w/o a battery Feb 17 10:41:39 occasionally i'd trip over the power cable Feb 17 10:41:43 timeless_mbp: yes, done that too. :) Feb 17 10:41:54 you could do it as they used to do it in IRIX Feb 17 10:41:59 the sad part was that i was using RDP for most stuff Feb 17 10:42:05 except, the work i was doing was in notepad locally Feb 17 10:42:06 machines were able to trigger power loss interrupt Feb 17 10:42:07 Feb 17 10:42:25 t-tan: performance degrades exponentially the less sequential it becomes. decompressing an image is a sequential read simultaneous with sequential write, plus some swapout activity. This is quite light for mmc Feb 17 10:42:32 and run for long enough from capacitors for writes to complete Feb 17 10:42:47 hey Feb 17 10:43:18 ShadowJK: it spends most time for I/O, CPU load is < 50% Feb 17 10:43:35 jacekowski: so... Feb 17 10:43:40 please stop dreaming Feb 17 10:43:45 you only need couple seconds of working CPU and flash Feb 17 10:43:47 you're asserting well behaved programs Feb 17 10:43:57 which have useful write patterns Feb 17 10:44:03 those programs don't exist Feb 17 10:44:10 it was working in IRIX Feb 17 10:44:15 well, we aren't Feb 17 10:44:18 sure, but it's probably doing over 6 megs/sec total, it's fast enough that paging activity doesn't get delayed too much Feb 17 10:44:21 we're working w/ linux programs Feb 17 10:44:46 guys, which dsp does N900 have? TMS320C64+? Feb 17 10:44:56 damn you write too much, I can't manage both work and read at the same time Feb 17 10:45:10 I can't find it in omap spec Feb 17 10:45:32 ShadowJK: we see the effect that the same decompression sometimes takes 8min, sometimes 1h Feb 17 10:45:57 TriztFromWork: stop working ;-) Feb 17 10:46:05 yakov: wikipedia says so Feb 17 10:46:13 the worst case performance is approximately 90kbyte/s Feb 17 10:46:25 timless + thresh last two sentences bundled makes a very fun quote ;) Feb 17 10:46:36 lol Feb 17 10:46:38 timeless_mbp; thats an option, just wonder how I'll get my bills disappear too Feb 17 10:47:00 craaaap Feb 17 10:47:02 (90 for a class 6) Feb 17 10:47:04 it happened Feb 17 10:47:34 ShadowJK: hmm you're _the_ sd/mmc guru? Feb 17 10:47:43 ShadowJK: performance diff 6 <-> 10? Feb 17 10:47:45 usb connector destroyed on my n900 :( Feb 17 10:47:45 t-tan; usually takes med 30-45 mins if I have 1G+ tar file Feb 17 10:47:54 ShadowJK: Basically, is 10 worth the extra monneh? Feb 17 10:48:18 anyone has a fix? Feb 17 10:48:26 slonopotamus: production n900? Feb 17 10:48:31 tybollt: horsepiss vs cowpiss, it's a difficult choice indeed ;) Feb 17 10:48:33 ShadowJK: you mean, when changing only one bit per eraseblock? Feb 17 10:48:35 Stskeeps, yep Feb 17 10:48:40 slonopotamus: class action suit? Feb 17 10:48:45 t-tan: when writing 4k blocks Feb 17 10:48:48 Stskeeps, what? Feb 17 10:48:48 slonopotamus: warranty -> nokia repair shop -> meditate for two weeks -> wake up -> pick up phone at repair shop Feb 17 10:49:06 tybollt: except that's not how it seems to go :P Feb 17 10:49:13 Stskeeps: ?? Feb 17 10:49:25 aargh Feb 17 10:49:34 TriztFromWork: the "easydeb benchmark": lzma decompression of 230MB to 2GB takes 8GB on the SD Feb 17 10:49:35 tybollt: go read talk.maemo.org :P Feb 17 10:49:47 how does it go then? Feb 17 10:50:12 Stskeeps: I rather not watch those loudmouth w/ fire in their hair ;) Feb 17 10:50:19 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=37107 Feb 17 10:50:25 t-tan; so 2GB takes 8GB of space? thats not good, too big bloxksizes? Feb 17 10:50:47 TriztFromWork: oops, typo: 8mins Feb 17 10:51:06 okey, thats quite fast compared to what i get Feb 17 10:51:10 MiXu-: "hi my usb port broke" - "our engineers have dtermined you istreated the device, no warranty repair for you" - "but you didn't even look at it!" - "err, we used our.. xray machine... at the door.... go away" Feb 17 10:51:22 Nice :P Feb 17 10:51:23 TriztFromWork: that's on a class 6 card. the same for eMMC Feb 17 10:52:13 I think the decompression time to microsd on n900 would vary less from time to time than to emmc :P Feb 17 10:52:21 so, usb port lived 3 month for me Feb 17 10:52:29 *months Feb 17 10:52:29 t-tan; eMMC, was that where you have the OS or where you had ~/Mydocs ? Feb 17 10:53:02 TriztFromWork: I uncompressed on repartitioned ext3. Feb 17 10:53:04 I guess the later, as the / don't have 2GB space Feb 17 10:53:19 slonopotamus: do post the the tmo thread, production device lasted 3 months... and your experience with nokia care Feb 17 10:53:29 t-tan; thats nice, I have only done the untaring on vfat Feb 17 10:53:49 ShadowJK: you mean due to simulanteous swap or home access? Feb 17 10:53:57 lack of uk firmware update getting very old now :< Feb 17 10:54:00 I think texrat is trying to make Nokia stop acting like an Evil Empire on this issue, so reports will help Feb 17 10:54:08 TriztFromWork: I don't expect a big difference on vfat Feb 17 10:54:17 TomaszD, ShadowJK Thanks for your help - I was able to update after following your tips. Feb 17 10:54:23 t-tan; and my phone has been really unresponsive when doing that, frist moving the file to the device and then unarchive, both took me 30-45 mins Feb 17 10:54:26 t-tan: swapout and on-demand paging of stuff in /opt, yeah Feb 17 10:54:55 TriztFromWork: yes, you shouldn't use your device during the process. run it via ssh Feb 17 10:55:09 Even downloading stuff with gpodder at 500k/sec gives noticeable extra latency :) Feb 17 10:55:26 * slonopotamus calls nokia care Feb 17 10:55:38 t-tan: I wouldn't have to do the unarchinving if only "scp -r" had worked Feb 17 10:55:50 scp -r works fine. Feb 17 10:55:56 TriztFromWork: rsync Feb 17 10:57:00 t-tan; scp far simpler and less options Feb 17 10:57:14 mece; which ssh package you installed? Feb 17 10:57:20 hmm Feb 17 10:57:42 TriztFromWork, you mean what version? Feb 17 10:58:08 mece; there are two different ssh packages in the repos Feb 17 10:59:01 TriztFromWork, I installed this in December. It's 51p1-6.maemo5 Feb 17 10:59:26 the openssh client and server metapackage Feb 17 10:59:34 mece; openSSH (this one I have installed) and Dropbear SSH Feb 17 11:00:48 mece; I have 5.1p1-6 too, but option -r never works for directories Feb 17 11:00:55 why dropbear ssh? Feb 17 11:01:00 really why? Feb 17 11:01:02 konttori_work: someone's suggested Catorise will have "serious issues", wondering if /etc/xdg/menus/hildon.menu isn't the root anymore Feb 17 11:01:12 openssh - drop everything else Feb 17 11:01:19 tybollt; don't ask me, I didn't approve it to be on the repo Feb 17 11:01:23 (mind the pun) Feb 17 11:02:01 TriztFromWork: They can put pictures of busted baby seals on the repo - doesn't mean you have to download it... :) Feb 17 11:02:26 tybollt; I wouldn't, thats why I installed openSSH Feb 17 11:05:17 * slonopotamus tries to decide if he should remove private data before sending his n900 to repair Feb 17 11:05:38 TrizrFromWork, well I have that version and -r works as it should. I'm not sure I've tried it every way, but I've done a scp -r /home/user/MyDocs/.sounds mece@myhost:/music/ and that worked Feb 17 11:05:39 slonopotamus: it doesn't work anyway Feb 17 11:06:02 slonopotamus; if you don't then the next one getting your parts won't see your photos ;) Feb 17 11:06:13 slonopotamus: so the questions are; Feb 17 11:06:26 1. do you expect there to be a virus on the systems that touch your device Feb 17 11:06:38 mece; the other way around? Feb 17 11:06:47 2. do you trust nokia less today than you did when you bought your n900 Feb 17 11:07:08 TriztFromWork, from server to n900, on the n900? Feb 17 11:07:27 timeless_mbp, i have some battery power yet :) Feb 17 11:07:28 actually just charged it and was pulling cable out Feb 17 11:07:41 * X-Fade wants a nice equalizer built in Maemo Feb 17 11:08:02 mece; from server to n900 Feb 17 11:08:47 timeless_mbp, i didn't buy it, it was gifted to me Feb 17 11:09:41 craaap :( Feb 17 11:09:55 TriztFromWork, I'm not sure if I've pulled. I can try it now.. Feb 17 11:10:29 ShadowJK, so, they all break that way? Feb 17 11:11:05 mece; thanks Feb 17 11:13:01 TriztFromWork, works fine. I created /home/mece/testpull/asdf/ on my server and put some stuff there, then did, from n900, scp -r mece@:/home/mece/testpull ./ and it downloaded the subtree as it should have. Feb 17 11:13:29 hmm strange that it don't work for me Feb 17 11:13:36 TriztFromWork, could it be your server that has some problems? Feb 17 11:14:10 mece; works fine between laptop desktop, server desktop in all directions Feb 17 11:15:18 TriztFromWork, you could perhaps try to remove all the ssh packages and install the openssh one again? Feb 17 11:17:09 I could. but that has to wait until I'm back home as I don't have access to the workstation with my n900 as they are on different nets Feb 17 11:24:01 Jaffa, you mean after the flattened launcher list is applied? Feb 17 11:27:36 konttori_work: have you installed catorize? Feb 17 11:28:28 catorize and mymenu are both having something good but also something bad Feb 17 11:28:53 Scelt_: this is a different conversation Feb 17 11:29:01 * R4lph is away : I'm working... [=P= LogON] Feb 17 11:33:17 how does TI name C64+ silicon on OMAP? IVA? then what is ISP? is it possible to gain control of it? Feb 17 11:48:06 -.- Feb 17 11:48:13 .me yawns Feb 17 11:48:16 * Arif yawns Feb 17 11:48:40 how can I reload the icon cache or whatever is responsible for displaying icons on the desktop. Whenever I install a new app, the icon for the new app stays a blue square on the desktop and the app menu Feb 17 11:48:45 a reboot fixes this. Feb 17 11:49:19 reboot? :P Feb 17 11:49:34 It's the same for me Feb 17 11:49:44 Shapeshifter: file a bug Feb 17 11:49:45 I noticed it shows up after a while though Feb 17 11:52:09 Stskeeps: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6931 I think this is pretty much the problem Feb 17 11:52:10 Bug 6931: After installation of software last icon in "More..." view has default icon instead of own one Feb 17 11:53:52 I've located a karma whore! wee! :D Feb 17 11:54:03 wazd: kill it!@ Feb 17 11:54:14 timeless, at least once, yes. But not after the flattening has been done Feb 17 11:54:35 http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Shortcuts_and_Gestures#Xterm_Shortcuts - ctrl+arrows to jump the words would be great Feb 17 11:54:52 RST38h: http://maemo.org/profile/view/torpedo48/ Feb 17 11:55:16 bwahaha :) Feb 17 11:55:34 wazd: who is that guy? :P Feb 17 11:55:39 https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7307 this is probably the same bug, simply after a restore Feb 17 11:55:40 Bug 7307: App shortcuts on desktop don't have icon after restoring applications & settings Feb 17 11:55:43 wazd: Welll...umgh... at least he is reporting bugs... Feb 17 11:56:08 Stskeeps: well, at least he commented ALL of the OMW iconsets with "Good job, it makes my desktop colorful" :D Feb 17 11:56:22 2009-12-01 Feb 17 11:56:24 RST38h: he's an undercover :D Feb 17 11:56:25 konttori_work: Correct. Feb 17 11:56:30 wazd: Yea, he commented my stuff too Feb 17 11:56:35 and apparently there isn't even a font cache in pr 1.1.1 so I don't understand why there is this problem even. Feb 17 11:56:40 wazd: Something similar. Maybe he is running a script :) Feb 17 11:57:08 RST38h: no script can trick me! Feb 17 11:58:06 Will Maemo stop existing now and become MeeGo ? Feb 17 11:58:22 anyway, karma system failed again, people with lots of apps have less karma than people with lots of comments :D Feb 17 11:58:48 wazd: he'll be in for a shock when his karma doesn't qualify him for a meego device? Feb 17 11:58:51 :P Feb 17 11:59:28 Stskeeps: well, he's a bug reporter, why not? :D Feb 17 11:59:56 Stskeeps: makes more sense than giving anything to the lame designer wannabe :) Feb 17 12:00:29 zChris: there have been plenty of forum posts and blog posts Feb 17 12:00:39 zChris: please do make an effort by googling for at least half a minute Feb 17 12:00:42 http://maemo.org/profile/view/rami/ this guy is funny too Feb 17 12:00:53 842 for brainstorm ideas? :D Feb 17 12:00:53 wazd: I think you're funnier Feb 17 12:01:18 crashanddie_: I'm The Funniest One actually :) Feb 17 12:01:21 The new karma modifiers will be implemented this week. Feb 17 12:01:48 The ones that Valerio pushed/discussed. Feb 17 12:01:49 X-Fade: just in time to screw everyone before the elections, I'm loving it! Feb 17 12:02:03 X-Fade: including the IRC ones? Feb 17 12:02:06 crashanddie_: Does not matter really. Feb 17 12:02:17 X-Fade: haven't seen it, but since Valerio has made it - it should be great :) Feb 17 12:02:55 But I'm all for giving do-ers more karma. Feb 17 12:03:00 Talk is cheap :) Feb 17 12:03:13 I was just wonadering, what would be drawwback, if I remount mmc card to / after boot (so I can install any debian armel packeges without fulling root partition). Feb 17 12:03:18 ~wondering Feb 17 12:03:31 crashanddie_: The answer is yes :< Feb 17 12:03:35 niekt0: Why don't you just boot from mmc then? Feb 17 12:03:47 zChris: the answer is not immediately Feb 17 12:03:54 zChris: you don't want maemo on a netbook? Feb 17 12:04:00 zChris: maemo goodness in your car computer? Feb 17 12:04:45 crashanddie_: I dont know since i havent tried Maemo. Im just curious what will happen with it now when Nokia is changing OS Feb 17 12:04:51 the legitimate fear is bad decisions flowing from intel Feb 17 12:05:21 pupnik_: bad decisions like what? Core 2 Duo? Intel Atom? Feb 17 12:05:28 crashanddie_: no, ARM saboteurs. Feb 17 12:05:29 like shiftedsegment:offset Feb 17 12:05:32 zChris: It is not changing OS. Feb 17 12:05:38 or rpm Feb 17 12:05:44 or "meego" Feb 17 12:05:45 zChris: Maemo 5 will live, Maemo 6 will live, we're just working towards a common goal with another company Feb 17 12:05:58 X-Fade: Even better. But still, will it be slower? or more power consuming? shorter card lifetime? Feb 17 12:06:25 niekt0: You would find it out for us ;) Feb 17 12:06:57 niekt0: Not using a compressed filesystem will help with performance in writes, but can slow down in reads. It all depends. Feb 17 12:07:25 maybe we could have a power efficient cpu with a shutdownable x86 core on the side for the occasional dosbox session :P Feb 17 12:13:11 X-Fade: http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-community/2010-February/003940.html Feb 17 12:13:13 "morning£ Feb 17 12:14:07 mashiara: Yes, will look into it. Feb 17 12:14:11 Maybe we could have a sanity-check in autobuilder that refuses packages with exact same names as the occresponding nokia repo Feb 17 12:14:26 s/occresponding/corresponding/ Feb 17 12:14:26 mashiara meant: Maybe we could have a sanity-check in autobuilder that refuses packages with exact same names as the corresponding nokia repo Feb 17 12:14:30 mashiara: There is. I wonder why it didn't work. Feb 17 12:14:48 does not check for the source package name ? Feb 17 12:14:50 X-Fade: it looks at binary package not source? Feb 17 12:15:23 Stskeeps: I think looks at binaries produced by source packages. Feb 17 12:16:41 wouldn't it be "simplest" to extract the source package before building and check the control file Feb 17 12:16:50 mashiara: It does that. Feb 17 12:16:59 X-Fade: what _is_ the proper upstream for maemo5 anyway. i use debian sid at home so thats what i always grab Feb 17 12:18:06 pupnik_: at least the kernel changelog lines say intrepid Feb 17 12:18:54 but I don't think there is official upstream distro Feb 17 12:19:06 yeah Feb 17 12:19:49 pupnik_: No one knows ;) Feb 17 12:20:27 pupnik_: With MeeGo, it will be more clear. As that is an upstream distro itself. Feb 17 12:21:52 "maego" would have been less annoying Feb 17 12:22:09 oh well Feb 17 12:22:36 nomen est omen Feb 17 12:24:15 crashanddie_: If you dont agree with something, it doesnt mean you troll. Feb 17 12:24:24 you troll -> I troll. Feb 17 12:24:32 matthew-: I'm sorry? Feb 17 12:24:51 matthew-: context? Feb 17 12:26:08 matthew-: if you're going to throw out snarky comments, at least follow up on them, you twat Feb 17 12:26:25 anyway, going out for a cigarette, if you have anything else to say: PM Feb 17 12:27:15 mashiara: I've reported that kernel-source confict, too Feb 17 12:27:30 crashanddie_: No need to insult anyone. Feb 17 12:28:29 mashiara: the proper way should be like this: http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/fremantle/non-free/source/k/kernel-maemo/ Feb 17 12:29:10 if you're going to package a custom kernel call it something else than kernel-maemo Feb 17 12:29:30 howabout kernel-ttan Feb 17 12:29:35 or ttan-kernel Feb 17 12:29:54 for http://mobilehotspot.garage.maemo.org/ i use hotspot-kernel Feb 17 12:30:36 mashiara: the idea is have a common ommunity kernel, patches welcome. see TMO Feb 17 12:31:07 community-kernel ? Feb 17 12:31:17 trying to avoid confusion here... Feb 17 12:31:55 mashiara: yes, with enhancements to the stock kernel Feb 17 12:32:08 no I meant package name 'community-kernel' Feb 17 12:32:18 with 'community-kernel-modules' Feb 17 12:32:36 mashiara: the community is called Maemo Feb 17 12:32:53 hrrmh stupid freenode Feb 17 12:33:29 matthew-: why you don't just put your money where your mouth is? When did I say you were a troll? Bit of context please Feb 17 12:33:30 sure but if I didn't already know the difference of "kernel" and "kernel-maemo"/"maemo-kernel" Feb 17 12:33:55 then "kernel-maemo" would look a *lot* like the official name Feb 17 12:34:03 yo penguinbait Feb 17 12:34:30 mashiara: it's primarily a package that contains the kernel, not the community :) Feb 17 12:35:25 damn, it was the community i wanted Feb 17 12:35:42 is this comment on "community-kernel" vs "kernel-community" (or "maemo-kernel" vs "kernel-maemo") Feb 17 12:35:49 crashanddie_: On the forums. Feb 17 12:35:56 matthew-: LINK Feb 17 12:36:20 later. Feb 17 12:36:22 or on the choice of the name used to differentiate the package from the stock kernel Feb 17 12:36:32 (my comments above meant for t-tan) Feb 17 12:37:31 t-tan: in case you're interested in "my" patches see http://vcs.maemo.org/svn/mobilehotspot/trunk/patches/ Feb 17 12:39:09 crashanddie_: Dont you think its a bit of a power abuse? Feb 17 12:40:14 matthew-: you're telling me to not call you a troll because allegedly I'm doing it to say we don't share the same opinion, and then you refuse to tell me where I did it Feb 17 12:40:37 slonopotamus: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=531846&postcount=585 Feb 17 12:40:54 t-tan: I get the point about it being primarily kernel for some reason I just find it cleaner to use prefix-kernel(-xxx)? than kernel-suffix(-xxx)? Feb 17 12:40:56 matthew-: so I repeat, either own up on your allegations, or shut up Feb 17 12:41:08 hate when the n900 rejects to connect, no matter that the key phrase is correct Feb 17 12:41:15 crashanddie_: I am working, i said ill link it later. Feb 17 12:41:27 mashiara: if you think your patches are stable, I could integrate them into the package Feb 17 12:41:27 matthew-: and I say, sod off if you're going to troll Feb 17 12:41:43 matthew-: because that is _exactly_ trolling Feb 17 12:41:50 mashiara: so far no one complained about the name Feb 17 12:41:59 matthew-: so you have the time to go on IRC to diss people, but not to link? Feb 17 12:42:24 PM, please? Feb 17 12:42:45 t-tan: I have converted it to quilt, so its pretty easy to add/remove/change subpatches Feb 17 12:42:48 t-tan: I'm just touchy on the confusion issue right now, I wasted a lot of time on fixing stupidity in the "kernel" source package in extras devel cursing at the wrong people Feb 17 12:43:34 mashiara: do you know the name of the guy who uploaded it? Feb 17 12:44:17 it's in the control file and I guess in autobuilders logs Feb 17 12:44:30 but I already nuked the files from my SB Feb 17 12:45:44 as for patches it's basically just configuration changes (enable NAT and QoS) and two quick and dirty oops fixes Feb 17 12:46:26 mashiara: ok, I already have NAT enabled. I can integrate your fixes and enable QoS Feb 17 12:47:13 t-tan; how likely will it be that you add nfs4 support? Feb 17 12:48:03 t-tan: while discussing packaging and different custom kernels, how about this idea: use Provides: kernel-modules-nat, kernel-modules-xxx etc Feb 17 12:48:14 I do that on the hotspot packages (which are not in any repo yet) Feb 17 12:48:33 and the hotspot UI depends on the provides lines not on the exact kernel name Feb 17 12:48:51 TriztFromWork: even in the stock kernel CONFIG_NFS_V4=y Feb 17 12:49:15 last time I tried it didn't want to mount the nfs4 Feb 17 12:49:46 mashiara: yes, that's something we could consider, but some modules require a new kernel, other would work with stock Feb 17 12:50:31 mashiara: ... yes, just specifiying provides is a good idea Feb 17 12:51:00 mashiara: I thought you meant independent modules packages Feb 17 12:51:11 t-tan: I know but those module packages can then depend on exact kernel versions (I have also been thinking about how to cleanly package minimal featuresets of packages, since not everyone needs everything that goes into the community kernel) Feb 17 12:51:26 t-tan: took a while to write that Feb 17 12:52:06 t-tan: also independent module packages would be nice (also in the case of the community kernel) Feb 17 12:52:37 mashiara: problem: for the community kernel they are in their indep modules directory Feb 17 12:53:01 mashiara: so that can simply reflash a stock kernel Feb 17 12:53:58 mashiara: we could symlink them to the stock modules directory Feb 17 12:54:01 t-tan: I guess with carefull use of depends/provides these should be solvable, but we probably need to ask the stock kernel people to add some provides lines too Feb 17 12:54:21 package wise Feb 17 12:55:02 mashiara: Idealy Nokia should integrate useful and test patches from the community kernel, and then also add the "provides" Feb 17 12:55:28 s/test/tested/ Feb 17 12:55:28 t-tan meant: mashiara: Idealy Nokia should integrate useful and tested patches from the community kernel, and then also add the "provides" Feb 17 12:55:37 yep, moment I'll try to write some examples Feb 17 12:55:49 ++ t-tan Feb 17 12:56:08 community provided patches would be a distinct benefit where pracitcal Feb 17 12:56:30 not just kernel Feb 17 12:57:07 If we have for example package 'kernel-modules-joydev' that has one file, joydev.ko, this module works with plain stock kernel so the file can be placed on the same module directory. the package must depend on the exact stock kernel version. Then we have another package Feb 17 12:57:14 the TMO thread for the community kernel: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=43420 Feb 17 12:57:34 we should discuss our ideas there Feb 17 12:57:48 point Feb 17 12:59:11 will do Feb 17 12:59:30 mashiara: I'm just adding your patches to the comm.kernel Feb 17 13:00:01 ok, though they're not really mine, talk usernames in patch file tell whose... Feb 17 13:00:55 hello Feb 17 13:02:24 mashiara: ok, thanks Feb 17 13:08:50 hy. i have a simple question: is there any way to override or disable automatic software update checks? Feb 17 13:08:57 platform: maemo5 Feb 17 13:09:13 Necc: Just disable the repository? Feb 17 13:09:21 not a solution Feb 17 13:09:40 Necc: It is :) Feb 17 13:09:45 no it is not Feb 17 13:10:03 You might not like it ;) Feb 17 13:10:14 i asked to disable or override automatic checks, and not to kill completely the app manager Feb 17 13:10:23 it's not a big task to re-enable it if you manually update anyways Feb 17 13:10:35 It is just a tickbox. Feb 17 13:10:44 10x checkbox... Feb 17 13:10:58 you got 10 repos enabled? bloody hell Feb 17 13:11:00 Necc: Then you are doing something wrong anyway :) Feb 17 13:11:10 every time when i wish to update or download new software... no this is not a solution, this is barbarism Feb 17 13:11:19 search the irclogs or talk.maemo.org, there is a setting to to change interval of automatic update Feb 17 13:11:37 Necc: Or you click ignore once you see an update. Feb 17 13:11:41 Necc: A lot easier. Feb 17 13:11:54 i looked after in talk.maemo.org, i found nothing just a pending bugreport Feb 17 13:12:27 automatic software check is not visible event Feb 17 13:12:51 then search the irclogs or ml, im certain ive seen it somewhere Feb 17 13:13:27 but it irritates me that this stupid function eats up montly 85MB from my 20MB data plan. so i look a solution to disable or override it Feb 17 13:14:45 Necc: Are you sure it auto updates over 3G? If so, file a bug about that? Feb 17 13:14:59 Mine does over 3G Feb 17 13:15:00 i'm absolutely sure Feb 17 13:15:26 aptitude checks for update in the background, and generates monthly a large amount data traffic Feb 17 13:15:27 Indeed - updating over wifi also is a bug Feb 17 13:15:34 Necc: Well that seems unwanted behavior to me. Feb 17 13:15:37 or updating over usbnet Feb 17 13:15:42 Necc: We don't use aptitude. Feb 17 13:15:42 if it can't be disabled Feb 17 13:16:04 its suppose to be "always online", i dont see why it would matter *what* connection it is... ;-) Feb 17 13:16:23 frals: it's not always online if it falls offline due to exceeding quots. Feb 17 13:16:25 as Feb 17 13:17:09 ye, no idea how people manage to get excessive data as im well within my 200mb monthly with autoupdate on extras, testing and devel Feb 17 13:17:29 frals: and you're on 3G all the time? Feb 17 13:17:39 mostly yes Feb 17 13:17:47 frals: You use MFE? Feb 17 13:17:57 it is matter for me as IRC and IM (like skype or MSN) uses monthly 6-7MB data, so a 20MB data plan is just ideal for me, except this clearly unwanted periodical updates Feb 17 13:18:04 yes, always online.. not syncing mailing list folders thou :p Feb 17 13:18:28 How much do you pay for a 20MB plan then? Feb 17 13:18:28 i can set mail sync to wifi only Feb 17 13:18:52 Necc: if you check the h-a-m source on maemo.gitorious.org you can probably find the setting as well Feb 17 13:18:56 Or 200MB Feb 17 13:19:42 I'm paying 9,90e/month for an unlimited fullrate dataplan. It's so cheap that I don't see any point in having anything less. Feb 17 13:19:43 ~4.9€ Feb 17 13:20:11 where you are Feb 17 13:20:15 Finland Feb 17 13:20:21 costs vary dramatically. Feb 17 13:20:27 apparently :) Feb 17 13:20:44 It is mostly a pain when you are roaming :) Feb 17 13:21:08 But if you don't allow automatic roaming, you should be fine. Feb 17 13:21:24 yeah Feb 17 13:21:41 Well if I travel abroad, I'll just switch PSD off. Feb 17 13:22:42 There is a difference between 'I want to read IRC for an hour' and 'I want several Feb 17 13:22:43 well good for you, but not data plan increase is the solution to fix a monthly 85MB data waste as mobile internet is damn expensive here Feb 17 13:22:51 megabytes of update checked Feb 17 13:23:31 unlimited data ftw Feb 17 13:23:37 Necc: I agree, but do file a bug. It is the only way things will be fixed. Feb 17 13:24:08 ok i'm on it but sorry i've a few real life things now and i response with delay :) Feb 17 13:24:17 t-tan: whev... Blatant cross-posting about some of my kernel packaging ideas, please go see http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=532091#post532091 Feb 17 13:24:40 mashiara: thanks Feb 17 13:25:19 What genius decided to upload a linux kernel to extras-devel non-free? Feb 17 13:26:14 isn't there a Maintainer-row :) Feb 17 13:26:16 X-Fade, fuck? Feb 17 13:26:20 hmm. Force update of all repos generates 7M or so of traffic Feb 17 13:26:30 Dunno what normal checking would do. Feb 17 13:26:42 yikes Feb 17 13:26:50 SpeedEvil: A lot more actually. Feb 17 13:26:52 i had a kernel upgrade last night to correct version, didnt check its source because we have never had a kernel from extras Feb 17 13:26:55 frals: also, do you surf anything? Feb 17 13:26:59 SpeedEvil: Well, compressed yes. Feb 17 13:27:15 X-Fade, that should be removed im gonna reflash Feb 17 13:27:19 X-Fade: I mean - tcp/ip as measured by ifconfig Feb 17 13:27:25 tybollt: yeah, i check news/t.m.o daily on the bus/metro Feb 17 13:27:27 SpeedEvil: Yeah, you are right. Feb 17 13:27:42 guess im just lucky and get all the apt updates when im on wlan :p Feb 17 13:27:45 lcuk: No it is named differently. Feb 17 13:27:52 lcuk: That should not cause an update for you. Feb 17 13:27:58 thats sorta a relief then Feb 17 13:28:04 frals: IIRC a big sites like aftonbladet/DN etc takes a couple of MB just for the one load... Feb 17 13:28:05 ok i had a proper kernel update Feb 17 13:28:13 lcuk: AM won't allow that anyway. Feb 17 13:28:13 tybollt: adblock ;-) Feb 17 13:28:23 i think tele2s proxy eats some of it as well as im using that one Feb 17 13:28:25 frals: does it work for you? :S Feb 17 13:28:30 yes, flawless Feb 17 13:30:03 zimmerle: ping? Feb 17 13:30:56 zimmerle: You're not supposed to uploaded a modified kernel package to extras-devel with modified binary targets. Feb 17 13:31:03 lcuk: kernelupdate? uname -a? ;) Feb 17 13:31:04 zimmerle: This is not good: http://maemo.org/packages/source/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_source/kernel/2.6.28-20100303+0m5/ Feb 17 13:34:53 frals: I installed it but doesn't make a lick of difference... I should get the "block" thingies but don't :-| Feb 17 13:35:10 granted - haven't tried since 111 Feb 17 13:36:50 X-Fade: "do file a bug" oookay and how should i do that? :) Feb 17 13:37:48 https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5137 Feb 17 13:37:48 Bug 5137: Add option to disable/enable periodic apt updates Feb 17 13:37:52 maybe that is relevant Feb 17 13:38:28 gconftool -st int /apps/hildon/update-notifier/check_interval 2147483647 Feb 17 13:38:33 thats the workaround it seems Feb 17 13:38:54 Humm, just checking, is GL ES 1.x is now supported in the latest PR 1.1.1 update? Feb 17 13:39:15 and it works for N900 too? Feb 17 13:39:39 i read that solution, but it applies for N8x0 and no informations about it will works on N900 Feb 17 13:39:46 could try Feb 17 13:40:03 yes, OpenGL ES 1.1 is supported now in PR 1.1.1 Feb 17 13:41:23 well i was able to execute "gconftool -st int /apps/hildon/update-notifier/check_interval 2147483647" but no output Feb 17 13:42:06 also i love that no 'man' on N900 :| now i have no idea what i did Feb 17 13:42:16 ~curse users Feb 17 13:42:17 May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, users ! Feb 17 13:43:05 frals: *g* Feb 17 13:43:28 w00t: >_< Feb 17 13:49:44 hi Feb 17 13:50:06 X-Fade: there are two kernels in extras-devel (as discussed before): the broken one you just mentioned and my renamed one in non-free Feb 17 13:50:22 can somebody help me finding something? Feb 17 13:50:30 t-tan: Yeah, broken one removed. Feb 17 13:50:38 X-Fade: is something wrong with uploading a renamed one to extras-devel? Feb 17 13:50:40 t-tan: But the renamed one should really be in free. Feb 17 13:51:02 X-Fade: it depends on fiasco-gen, that's why it's not in free yet Feb 17 13:51:10 kopte3: sure, if google was unable to help you Feb 17 13:51:33 t-tan: Then you really should just wait unfortunately. Feb 17 13:51:43 it's unable to help me.. :) Feb 17 13:51:51 t-tan: Doing these direct uploads will only create a maintenance mess. Feb 17 13:51:54 ok.. i wanted to ask Feb 17 13:52:10 where i can find thumbnails of desktop bookmarks Feb 17 13:52:45 X-Fade: where is the policy for non-free? how should we know what to (not) do? Feb 17 13:52:48 i tried in /usr/share/bookmark-manager/thumbnails Feb 17 13:53:16 X-Fade: N900 users are fed up with waiting for months... Feb 17 13:53:25 but there are only thumbnails for preinstalled bookmarks Feb 17 13:53:44 t-tan: Non-free software should go in non-free. Feb 17 13:53:47 kopte3: I'd imagine it's in your home directory somewhere. Feb 17 13:54:02 X-Fade: I've just emailed you a possible solution how to build it on autobuilder, so it could go to free Feb 17 13:54:44 t-tan: And extras* is really all about users. We do what we can to make sure they aren't getting into a mes. Feb 17 13:54:44 yeah.. i know it's somewhere.. :) but i cannot find them Feb 17 13:54:47 kopte3, check under ~/.bookmarks Feb 17 13:54:49 *mess Feb 17 13:54:59 X-Fade: the kernel is actually non-free right now Feb 17 13:55:00 i will wait a sec :) Feb 17 13:55:03 tnx! Feb 17 13:55:31 t-tan: Because? Feb 17 13:55:45 kopte3, /home/user/.bookmarks/MyBookmarks.xml Feb 17 13:56:03 X-Fade: it is "linked"/modified with a non-free binary called fiasco-gen Feb 17 13:56:03 * R4lph is away : I'm working... [=P= LogON] Feb 17 13:56:21 t-tan: That is only the packaging. Doesn't make it non-free. Feb 17 13:56:54 It's not like it depends on it ... Feb 17 13:57:26 great guys! thanks a lot! Feb 17 13:57:47 if you cannot reproduce the binary with free tools it's a GPL violation Feb 17 13:57:54 bye ;) Feb 17 13:58:26 but it's a legal grey area Feb 17 13:58:59 t-tan: well, you can. Feb 17 13:59:21 t-tan: It needs to install on device, which is different. Feb 17 13:59:42 t-tan: More a platform requirement than anything else. Feb 17 14:00:45 what is fiasco used for? Is it simply to flash the kernel to the right 'partition' ? Feb 17 14:01:24 X-Fade: you could view it as a "firmware linked" to the kernel which is necessary to execute to kernel-on device. without that you need workarounds the distributed Nokia kernel package doesnt need Feb 17 14:01:26 If so - I don't see how it's a GPL violation - as you can flash non-GPL kernels onto the device Feb 17 14:01:44 SpeedEvil: It is only needed in the install phase. Feb 17 14:01:48 t-tan: it isn't needed to execute kernel on device. Feb 17 14:02:02 Any more than - say - ftp is required to be GPLd to fetch the kernel sources Feb 17 14:02:22 SpeedEvil: it modifies the kernel image for flashing Feb 17 14:02:24 t-tan: it is a packaging format, not a linked item Feb 17 14:02:44 Stskeeps: that's the legal grey area Feb 17 14:03:23 besides that Feb 17 14:03:32 fiasco-gen in non-free was what we could do very quickly Feb 17 14:03:35 open sourcing takes time. Feb 17 14:04:53 I don't want to get into GPL fights, I just want to help other people to get easy access to enhanced kernels Feb 17 14:05:00 of course Feb 17 14:07:26 t-tan: Don't want to hold you back of course. Feb 17 14:12:29 is it true that meego isn't going to be running X11, an instead that piece of shit qt windowing system? Feb 17 14:12:42 false Feb 17 14:12:49 anyone setup n900 to connect to a network that provides the WEP when you connect? Feb 17 14:13:03 w00t: whew. Any information to back that up? Feb 17 14:13:04 paroneayea: X11, for sure Feb 17 14:13:09 ah okay Feb 17 14:13:14 paroneayea: somewhere on meego.com Feb 17 14:13:15 that is a huuuuuuge relief Feb 17 14:13:18 paroneayea: give me a moment Feb 17 14:13:27 http://meego.com/developers/hardware-enabling-process Feb 17 14:13:38 paroneayea: also, #meego might be a better place for this Feb 17 14:13:43 yes true Feb 17 14:13:58 Andrewfblack, no; WPA here Feb 17 14:14:14 w00t: I joined there a couple of days ago, it was a madhouse, maybe because of questions just like the ones I asked ;) Feb 17 14:14:18 but true Feb 17 14:14:19 * w00t nods Feb 17 14:14:21 it's calmer now Feb 17 14:14:53 work network uses Root cert and have to setup to accept WEP from server but don't see that option on N900 could have sworn it was on N810 Feb 17 14:15:06 * Arif yawns Feb 17 14:24:35 Andrewfblack: if you use wifi and WEP security, there're a bug that N900 lacks some function about it. There're a bug at bugs.maemo.org and set as: wontfix but planned to fixed on maemo6 (sorry i don't remember exact details) Feb 17 14:25:58 tbh, heres hoping m6 just disables wep or plants a big "l2security" sign over the option Feb 17 14:27:54 is there a reason why probably X is crashing on my n900 when connecting to an unprotected wifi network? Feb 17 14:30:26 security measure to stop you from using such networks Feb 17 14:30:41 yeah right Feb 17 14:31:18 X is crashing? Feb 17 14:31:51 probably it's X because I see the dots splash an then the nokia splash Feb 17 14:32:34 cat /proc/boot_reason ? Feb 17 14:33:13 sw_rst Feb 17 14:34:19 head /var/lib/dsme/stats/* Feb 17 14:35:03 I think one of the lines in /var/lib/dsme/stats/lifeguard_restarts ought to have a little * next to it Feb 17 14:35:12 telling which core system process died and caused the lifeguard to reboot your n900 Feb 17 14:35:25 hm or maybe no Feb 17 14:35:33 mgedmin: could you be lured to log #meego, btw? Feb 17 14:35:33 I have a lifeguard_restarts and a .bak file Feb 17 14:36:00 diffing them tells me camera-ui restarts increased by one Feb 17 14:36:08 actually, restarts is about restarting processes, innit? Feb 17 14:36:14 it's resets that's about rebooting the device? Feb 17 14:36:18 Stskeeps, *sigh* okay sure Feb 17 14:36:29 supybot is a kind of a paint to configure Feb 17 14:36:34 maybe I should write a script Feb 17 14:36:44 /usr/bin/ohm-session-agent: 1 (...) camera-ui:8 (...) syncd: 1 Feb 17 14:37:20 Stskeeps, do you want bug number translations in #meego? Feb 17 14:37:24 theres a bak too with two first lines the same Feb 17 14:37:33 do they use the maemo bugzilla or will meego have their own bug tracker? Feb 17 14:37:35 mgedmin: let's wait with that until there's answer on meego bugtracker Feb 17 14:38:24 I think they said their own bugzilla would be setup soon Feb 17 14:38:41 don't know if they are gonna transfer over any stuff from maemo bz tho Feb 17 14:46:39 Jesus, how old are these people arguing over RPM vs. DEB? Feb 17 14:46:49 i'm 14! Feb 17 14:46:58 Hah Feb 17 14:47:27 Oh niceOMAP2 MBX drivers are out :D Feb 17 14:48:16 a lot of stuff happening these days Feb 17 14:48:23 alterego: people will argue over a lot of things, the difficult bit is getting them to follow through on the arguments :-) Feb 17 14:48:28 I'm 12, what is this? Feb 17 14:48:40 Stskeeps: Ice Age! Feb 17 14:48:43 SpeedEvil: diaf Feb 17 14:48:46 hmm the new maemo update is there a changelog somewhere? Feb 17 14:49:08 Stskeeps: Nice about the thumbs up/down of planet maemo, sticks your post right on the front page. :) Feb 17 14:49:13 meego is old news now ^.^ Feb 17 14:49:15 Stskeeps: We should elect the Sabre Toothed Squirrel, together with the council members Feb 17 14:50:16 whats up the disappearing maemo 6 interface videos. They appear on my rss feed, but they are not really available? Feb 17 14:50:27 anyone got proper link to those? Feb 17 14:50:28 petteri: Nokia removed them Feb 17 14:50:37 RST38h: any idea why yet? Feb 17 14:50:46 alterego: Does it matter? Feb 17 14:50:52 S'pose not .. Feb 17 14:50:52 Probably they were too early Feb 17 14:51:04 Packages are still in extras-devel btw. Feb 17 14:51:05 RST38h: ok, thanks Feb 17 14:51:16 petteri: apt-get install dui-demos Feb 17 14:51:17 In a related question, was that just QtCreator used to develop on that video? Feb 17 14:51:22 the gui package manager shows me teh packages of the new fireware but neither the update function nor apt-get dist-upgrade see them. ideas? Feb 17 14:51:23 with extras-devel enabled. Feb 17 14:52:02 X-Fade: thanks, will try to find link from the web interface of the repo Feb 17 14:52:32 petteri: Installs quite some packages, so better use apt-get ;) Feb 17 14:53:15 X-Fade: ah ok Feb 17 14:57:47 X-Fade: can a package in autobuilder download some file while building? Feb 17 14:58:06 t-tan: no Feb 17 14:58:29 t-tan: Every sane builder has no outside access. Feb 17 14:59:02 X-Fade: hmm, bad. then my workaround wont work :( Feb 17 14:59:35 t-tan: I'm thinking you are going to expose your key ;) Feb 17 15:01:35 X-Fade: I have only tried with fiasco-gen in the builddeps, but actually the package should be sdk-fiasco-gen. would autobuilder install that package or just fail? Feb 17 15:01:58 X-Fade: because it's only in the latest SDK Feb 17 15:02:05 t-tan: It will fail becaue it is not in the that version of the sdk. Feb 17 15:03:37 X-Fade: :( that's what I expected. so would you mind if I upload kernel-maemo to non-free till the SDK is updated in autobuider? Feb 17 15:23:42 which python qt4 bindings are preffered (pyside or python2.5)? Feb 17 15:25:35 * Arif sneezes at the N900 conversations app Feb 17 15:26:29 It needs a font size option! Feb 17 15:26:29 :) Feb 17 15:26:32 :( Feb 17 15:27:19 and an option to turn off the sound/vibrate for skype group chats Feb 17 15:27:42 I don't have anyone to skype with Feb 17 15:27:48 * Arif cries in a corner Feb 17 15:28:01 I only use MSN / IRC Feb 17 15:28:10 Arif, isn't conversations is css? You can change the font in the css file. There's a thread somewhere.. Feb 17 15:28:21 its quite annoying when a bunch of other people start chatting in the middle of the night and the device starts beeping and whirring on the table for hours on end Feb 17 15:28:30 mece, if I knew what I was doing maybe =} Feb 17 15:28:59 Kegetys, hint: go offline when you sleep! Feb 17 15:29:12 then I wont get private messages either Feb 17 15:29:52 use a bouncer :P Feb 17 15:30:04 hmm I was thinking Feb 17 15:30:10 can't you set different statuses for different accounts Feb 17 15:30:14 Arif, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=36618 Feb 17 15:30:33 Arif, you can have a custom status, that have custom statuses for each account. Feb 17 15:30:54 I want to be online on my VoiP account but offline on MSN Feb 17 15:31:00 does that count as custom? Feb 17 15:32:54 Arif, just go to my availability, new status, and choose what status each service want. Feb 17 15:33:37 oo, I didn't know that .. :D Feb 17 15:33:49 Bonjour! Feb 17 15:33:52 Arif, good luck with that. gotta go. toodles. Feb 17 15:46:50 anybody got a Opengl ES 1.1 test app built? Feb 17 15:49:22 hmm Feb 17 15:49:37 does ový store accept other means to pay than credýt cards? :O Feb 17 15:52:32 pupnik: what do you want? I can send you the "interesting" file from a bigger app that I have Feb 17 15:53:07 eitherway any GLES2 sample will suffice, Feb 17 15:53:10 the changes are minimal Feb 17 15:54:29 just swap -lGLESv2 for -lGLES_CM Feb 17 15:54:36 acha Feb 17 15:55:09 theres that nice scroller maryo world Feb 17 15:55:19 that's SDL? Feb 17 15:55:25 sdl+gl Feb 17 15:55:38 when I finish my current project (SDL+hildon input method) I plan to start SDL GLES "addon" Feb 17 15:55:50 without patching the maemo sdl Feb 17 15:56:16 the SDL+him stuff should fix the rover.sys issue once for all, I hope. Feb 17 15:56:17 hmm Feb 17 15:56:29 that is wonderful Feb 17 15:57:29 that should be +500 karma right there Feb 17 16:05:14 can I make n900 prefer sip over mobile? Feb 17 16:05:47 satmd: I believe over 3G should work fine ... it's all about the available bandwidth Feb 17 16:06:01 well, I mean Feb 17 16:06:15 a way to chose sip calls rather than regular calls Feb 17 16:06:27 ahh Feb 17 16:06:51 something along simple call routing rules Feb 17 16:07:38 * dazo is very much satisfied with the latest m5 update ... battery consumption is reduced quite drastically, he might not need to charge the phone in the evening today .... Feb 17 16:08:09 yeah, it seems they fixed a "quite-common-but-I-never experienced-it" Wifi battery-draining bug Feb 17 16:08:10 lucky for you dazo! Feb 17 16:08:11 you make me want to buy a sim card so I can update my N900 Feb 17 16:08:16 My N900 lasts 3 days on a charge Feb 17 16:08:18 o.o Feb 17 16:08:21 mines still a battery eater Feb 17 16:08:34 brb Feb 17 16:08:38 yeah, since I removed quite a lot of apps it stays up really long Feb 17 16:08:47 Arif: wow! i assume no wifi Feb 17 16:08:53 i had to remove a whole bunch to install update Feb 17 16:08:54 only when I use it Feb 17 16:08:59 which is a few hours a day Feb 17 16:09:03 not sure if it was camkeyd or the jack headphone daemon Feb 17 16:09:04 toggles_w: mine's gets 2 and a bit days with wi-fi on 24h Feb 17 16:09:05 got sooo many crappy apps on there that i dnt need haha Feb 17 16:09:08 like 5-6 Feb 17 16:09:21 wow, i'm lucky to get 10hrs with wifi Feb 17 16:09:21 and 3 hours of radio streaming on 3G Feb 17 16:09:27 :p Feb 17 16:09:29 toggles_w: ap failure Feb 17 16:09:30 yeah im lucky for 10hrs too Feb 17 16:09:31 * toggles_w carries a spare battery Feb 17 16:09:36 hahahah Feb 17 16:09:39 i want a spare batt Feb 17 16:09:46 I don't use mail/IM that much Feb 17 16:09:48 maybe that's why :D Feb 17 16:09:49 thought about getting one but i know id forget it Feb 17 16:09:52 Question: I assume that while the possessor is at 250 Mhz, it consumes the least power, but while its at that speed, does it matter how much it is being used? Feb 17 16:10:15 Wild_Doogy: most certainly Feb 17 16:10:20 I have 30minutes POP3 mail checker on, and xmpp & skype enabled Feb 17 16:10:24 javispedro: ap failure? the only thing i can think of that i have running is the cpu mon Feb 17 16:10:34 my mail check is every 5mins Feb 17 16:10:35 I'm not interesting enough to get mail ;P Feb 17 16:10:38 for exchange Feb 17 16:10:57 toggles_w: may not support wi-fi power savings. Feb 17 16:11:00 Before the latest update (which I got yesterday), it lasted 10-12 hours, with wifi on constantly ... SIP, MSN and ICQ logged in most of the time ... but today, it's like the battery still got 75% after 7-8 hours Feb 17 16:11:02 anyone think theyll every give the ability to hav a secondary exchange off ur primary account Feb 17 16:11:06 AKA, is no apts running, and a small-amount-but-not-enough-to-kick-it-into-500MHz the same amperage usage? Feb 17 16:11:18 yeah, could be the router Feb 17 16:11:44 Wild_Doogy: no Feb 17 16:11:48 dazo: I have this feeling the extra telepathy plugins are not easy on the battery Feb 17 16:12:01 ok, thanks good to know. Feb 17 16:12:12 Wild_Doogy: i dont know this cpu arch, but since even older intel chips have sleep states, this one surely does Feb 17 16:12:27 javispedro: I'm using the haze version ... but I didn't notice much difference in consumption before and after installing that one Feb 17 16:12:29 I'm waiting for file transfer support for all those plugins :P Feb 17 16:13:01 Pecan seems to eat up battery like crazy for me Feb 17 16:13:22 3hrs hard use battery goes down pretty darn low Feb 17 16:13:24 Brendan[BP]: have you checked with powertop? Feb 17 16:13:46 * javispedro looks at this n800... last recharge: sunday. still at 50%. Feb 17 16:13:52 s/n800/n810 Feb 17 16:13:55 dazo no i havnt as of yet, i monitored it for a day with bateye Feb 17 16:14:35 * Arif throws an N910 at javispedro Feb 17 16:14:54 * javispedro grabs N910 and uses it to time travel Feb 17 16:15:01 Brendan[BP]: I haven't tried bateye .... Will try that one when I see how the battery situation will be after a few days Feb 17 16:15:29 dazo excellent, am curious to know how other peoples are going Feb 17 16:15:44 :) Feb 17 16:15:56 any ideas on the Exchange tho Feb 17 16:15:57 ØS Feb 17 16:16:00 **:S Feb 17 16:16:31 * dazo just want to be sure he can point at bateye if the battery begins to drain again :-P Feb 17 16:16:50 dazo hahah you sure can! Feb 17 16:17:02 bateye is really nice Feb 17 16:17:08 and doesn't seem to take too much battery Feb 17 16:17:27 but that way I can monitor how much battery my various usages take Feb 17 16:17:36 mmm yeah ill give you that battery consumption is seemingly low with bateye Feb 17 16:17:50 Brendan[BP]: well, I'm not using any automatic poll on my IMAP accounts .... but I believe that can also affect a lot, especially when you're using 5min poll time .... Not sure how Exchange proto is compared to IMAP also, in regards to energy consumption Feb 17 16:18:39 dazo nar i wasnt talking about that i was more talking about the implementation of the ability to add a secondary exchange account hanging off the primary Feb 17 16:19:10 as i have a work email and a personal both off same exchange server, diff domains ofc but the personal is techincally a sub of my primary account Feb 17 16:19:27 Brendan[BP]: ahh ... sorry ... I'm more of the anti-exchange guys .... don't understand why MS had to reimplement the IMAP protocol :-P Feb 17 16:19:51 nawww i love exchange! Feb 17 16:20:09 crap that reminds me needa go onto Kaseya irc now Feb 17 16:20:11 :( Feb 17 16:20:38 * satmd also wants to disable the sip chat feature Feb 17 16:21:28 * dazo is a firm believer in open standards ... and avoid as many proprietary solutions as possible, wherever he can Feb 17 16:21:43 which is why I found N900 to be the best mobile phone on the marked right now Feb 17 16:22:13 same here Feb 17 16:22:17 I received a skype call from Oz this morning, was pretty good, quite impressed how seemless the whole thing was Feb 17 16:22:42 in fact probably less laggy than one via a sat, less fibre to travel through ;) Feb 17 16:22:57 Skype is very good on the N900 IMHO. Feb 17 16:23:08 it's the first thing I did on mine :) Feb 17 16:23:10 would be good to get the video feature working though Feb 17 16:23:31 I've never bothered as I get free landline calls to the UK and very cheap to abroad Feb 17 16:23:57 satmd: sip handling is much nicer in the next major release Feb 17 16:23:58 I have free Wi-Fi on most places I go, so it's nice. Feb 17 16:24:59 timeless_mbp: oh... do you have any info about sip video support yet? ;) Feb 17 16:24:59 timeless_mbp: please elaborate! Feb 17 16:25:36 satmd: nope, i'm just calling my sister and parents Feb 17 16:25:47 and it's now remembering which service i used to call a normal phone number Feb 17 16:25:49 using new improved sip support? ;) Feb 17 16:26:01 :D Feb 17 16:26:11 * toggles_w looks at his poor n900 in a tub of rice Feb 17 16:26:19 hi ... can anyone tell me the correct incantation to import a non-default root CA into my n900 so that MicroB, OpenSSL, etc will recognize websites signed directly or indirectly by that CA? Feb 17 16:26:22 toggles_w: did it get wet? Feb 17 16:26:38 toggles_w: Not the toilet I hope? ) Feb 17 16:26:41 lardman: yup, washed it monday night, hope to rescue it from the rice in a few hours Feb 17 16:26:50 good luck! Feb 17 16:26:54 thx Feb 17 16:27:09 good old tek7 for that lil tip Feb 17 16:27:15 toggles_w: Battery removed? Feb 17 16:27:17 Rice is a bad idea. Feb 17 16:27:19 yup Feb 17 16:27:24 It does not remove that much water. Feb 17 16:27:27 Hydroxide: you can use a normal firefox to add a certificate authority root Feb 17 16:27:36 and then copy the proper database files to your n900 Feb 17 16:27:38 SpeedEvil: best i have Feb 17 16:27:42 80C in an oven or a drying cabinet for 24h. Feb 17 16:27:42 it removes it better than just about anything else that people tend to have lying round Feb 17 16:27:46 SpeedEvil: dessicant? Feb 17 16:27:50 Most people have ovens. Feb 17 16:27:51 timeless_mbp: but I can't do it from the n900 directly? Feb 17 16:27:52 a decent amount of silica crystals are hard to come by Feb 17 16:27:56 Hydroxide: you can Feb 17 16:28:04 You do need to verify that it is in fact at 80C though Feb 17 16:28:05 airing cupboard, or by the hotwater tank Feb 17 16:28:08 but it'll probably be easier to use a normal computer Feb 17 16:28:08 (or dissasemble) Feb 17 16:28:09 buy lots of nachos and get the dessicant packets out of them hahah Feb 17 16:28:13 * timeless_mbp is on an international call Feb 17 16:28:30 timeless_mbp: I tried opening the cert with the file manager, and it installed but didn't actually seem to get treated as a CA cert Feb 17 16:28:37 not in the hotwater tank though ;) Feb 17 16:28:41 Hydroxide: well Feb 17 16:28:45 if it isn't a ca cert Feb 17 16:28:48 it is :) Feb 17 16:28:52 then your cert is broken and your expectations are wrong Feb 17 16:28:53 url? Feb 17 16:29:24 * javispedro fries an USB SATA Bridge chip Feb 17 16:29:32 javispedro: congrats Feb 17 16:29:45 I scp'ed it from /etc/ssl/certs on a trusted debian machine to avoid needing to verify fingerprints, but it's downloadable here: http://www.spi-inc.org/secretary/spi-cacert.crt Feb 17 16:29:50 worst thing is that I don't know what I did, but it's now way too hot to touch. Feb 17 16:30:12 timeless_mbp: see ^^ - on my copy it ends in .pem instead of .crt but hopefully the certificate manager won't behave differently because of that Feb 17 16:31:05 timeless_mbp: it's also possible that it got installed but the MicroB browser doesn't support dealing with intermediate certs - hopefully it does though since gecko can handle it fine in general Feb 17 16:31:29 that's the root - the site I'm trying to access has one intermediate in between. Feb 17 16:31:39 is the site publicly available? Feb 17 16:32:23 https://penta.debconf.org/ for example ... Feb 17 16:32:31 anything SSLified on Debian or DebConf Feb 17 16:33:20 I highly doubt debian/debconf sysadmins got this wrong :) [no, I'm not one of them] Feb 17 16:33:29 Hydroxide: get the certificate file, store it on the filesystem, use the file manager to open the .crt, voila Feb 17 16:33:32 toggles_w: I've heard some people having had such incidents before ... and what they did, they opened the soaked device, took out those parts which will not be destroyed by water (loudspeakers, microphones) ... which usually meant the circuit boards .... and put it into a big container containing disinfected water .... and a lot of it .... so that all possible dirt are loosened up Feb 17 16:33:43 hi, i have a question about the meego - how open will it be? Feb 17 16:33:46 disinfected or distilled? Feb 17 16:33:50 satmd: that's what I tried. it didn't work. though my copy is named .pem - will it behave differently if I rename it to .crt first? Feb 17 16:34:03 satmd: (it's the same certificate, just grabbed from /etc/ssl/certs/ on a Debian machine) Feb 17 16:34:13 openssl x509 -in file.pem -out file.crt -inform PEM -outform DER Feb 17 16:34:14 toggles_w: then after a few hours in that water .... it was time to dry it in a warm room .... wiping off as much of the water as possible, and let it air-dry the rest for a day Feb 17 16:34:34 satmd: does it need to be in DER format specifically or just have the .crt extension? Feb 17 16:34:37 toggles_w: one guy did this on a couple of different devices with big success Feb 17 16:34:43 Hydroxide: you can try both Feb 17 16:34:57 bye Feb 17 16:35:06 satmd: ok. it's definitely worth a try. are you guessing or do you know it'll have different behavior? Feb 17 16:35:25 mgedmin: distilled Feb 17 16:35:33 oh, and should I have to restart my n900 for this to take effect, or just quit all browser windows and pkill browserd? Feb 17 16:35:42 well, .pem seems not to be tied to the cert manager Feb 17 16:35:58 I'm not sure the cert manager will do content mangling Feb 17 16:35:59 toggles_w: distilled water, I meant .... mgedmin gave me the correct word :) Feb 17 16:37:12 LuciusMare: I believe as open as maemo and moblin is today ... but #meego might give better answers Feb 17 16:38:33 Hydroxide: so um Feb 17 16:38:42 betting that debian people get crypto right Feb 17 16:38:44 is a terrible idea Feb 17 16:38:58 that said, the cert installs fine w/ firefox on my mac Feb 17 16:38:59 hahaha Feb 17 16:39:16 hrj Feb 17 16:39:16 * Hydroxide decides not to get into that particular potential flamewar :) Feb 17 16:39:19 timeless_mbp: are you thinking about the openssl incident a couple of years ago? ;-) Feb 17 16:39:26 dazo: why not? :) Feb 17 16:39:45 there are other cases too fwiw Feb 17 16:40:06 timeless_mbp: note I referred to the sysadmins. I didn't refer to "debian developers fixing a bug in openssl after consulting upstream about their proposed fix" Feb 17 16:40:09 there are some debian people who are very pro Feb 17 16:40:32 timeless_mbp: yeah, nobody is perfect :) Feb 17 16:40:37 timeless_mbp: in any case, they definitely know how to make a valid CA cert Feb 17 16:40:58 Hydroxide: step 1. break open ssl. step 2. use the broken ssl to generate a CA cert Feb 17 16:40:59 In general, trusting one single unity in regards to security and encryption is the first mistake Feb 17 16:40:59 :) Feb 17 16:41:18 timeless_mbp: there is a reason why they regenerated their CA cert after that incident... :) Feb 17 16:41:31 yup :) Feb 17 16:41:31 * timeless_mbp was just going to check the dates on the cert Feb 17 16:41:44 it's a 2008 cert, after openssl was fixed Feb 17 16:41:46 may 2008 Feb 17 16:42:57 i was also thinking of cacert fwiw Feb 17 16:43:11 anyway, there's a package in extras-something Feb 17 16:43:18 which gives you the mozilla crypto dialogs Feb 17 16:44:02 i think you won't need that package in the next browser upgrade Feb 17 16:44:53 "microb-engine-comment-ext" Feb 17 16:45:37 * timeless_mbp frowns Feb 17 16:45:45 the phone application is a bit slow here Feb 17 16:46:38 hmm... how i check if autobuilder's going to build my pkg? :) Feb 17 16:47:00 or how long i should wait before it starts Feb 17 16:47:41 jo Feb 17 16:48:58 and how i see how many packages before mine are in queue? Feb 17 16:49:05 !summon konttori Feb 17 16:49:23 the icon dropping algorithm for Call in portrait is a bit challenged Feb 17 16:49:25 and what idiot made usb connector that way Feb 17 16:50:09 slonopotamus hm there is no option Feb 17 16:50:11 slonopotamus: there are none waiting. Feb 17 16:50:24 slonopotamus: But there is virtually no wait queue anymore. Feb 17 16:50:42 slonopotamus: As we have sufficient hardware now. Feb 17 16:50:55 X-Fade, hmm... where i uploaded it to then? :) Feb 17 16:51:07 slonopotamus: https://garage.maemo.org/pipermail/extras-cauldron-builds/2010-February/017245.html Feb 17 16:51:10 This one? Feb 17 16:51:26 Hydroxide: fwiw Feb 17 16:51:34 the SiPI cert kinda sucks Feb 17 16:51:43 the name of their CA is "Certificate Authority" Feb 17 16:51:52 which is hardly professional Feb 17 16:51:59 which isn't to say that all CAs get this right Feb 17 16:52:00 yes, that was actually less stupid before they regenerated it Feb 17 16:52:18 X-Fade, err... where you got link to it? yep, it's mine. Feb 17 16:52:23 sigh, nokia + the uk hate is wearing thin now Feb 17 16:52:26 actually, lemme take that back Feb 17 16:52:32 slonopotamus: You should have gotten that mail too. Feb 17 16:52:36 real ca's generally don't get that terribly wrong Feb 17 16:52:41 slonopotamus: https://garage.maemo.org/pipermail/extras-cauldron-builds/2010-February/date.html#end Feb 17 16:52:45 corporate ca's generally do get that terribly wrong Feb 17 16:52:49 at the same time, it's not like "Equifax Secure Global Business CA-1" or such is any more meaningful - it just sounds more meaningful Feb 17 16:52:57 craaap Feb 17 16:53:02 the company that owns it isn't even Equifax :) Feb 17 16:53:11 (it's GeoTrust) Feb 17 16:53:13 newest messages at bottom :) Feb 17 16:54:18 Hydroxide: it was when it was originally created Feb 17 16:54:18 does anyone know if there is a plug-in so I can take lower quality pictures with my N900 so I can email them easier? Feb 17 16:54:20 X-Fade, uploading docs didn't say anything about signing...more than that, dput config file explicitely allows unsigned uploads. Feb 17 16:54:26 but the thing is you don't generally see two rows Feb 17 16:54:35 which means you will see "signed by Certificate Authority" Feb 17 16:54:39 which is utterly useless Feb 17 16:54:51 i saw something like that when i went to delete your CA Feb 17 16:55:15 ah, i guess i need to _remove_ signature Feb 17 16:56:00 slonopotamus: Is it your signature? Feb 17 16:56:52 You could use GIMP in Easy Debian to resize the picture Feb 17 16:57:50 X-Fade, nope, i tried to upload debian package asis Feb 17 16:58:18 will fix it now... Feb 17 16:59:14 DarkGUNMAN: Thanks, I don't have easy Debian yet? think I should get it? (will it let me run Ubuntu apps?) Feb 17 17:02:01 Wild_Doogy: the 'sharing' stuff lets you scale down a picture and email it Feb 17 17:02:25 <_andy> Hi. Feb 17 17:02:38 <_andy> when I boot my device it says "Malfunction ! Device shutdown in 10s" Feb 17 17:02:44 X-Fade, do i need to upload two .changes files, for arm and x86? Feb 17 17:02:55 <_andy> will this prevent me from reflashing teh firmware over usb? Feb 17 17:03:10 you could try at least Feb 17 17:03:12 X-Fade, if yes, how i generate them without rebuilding? Feb 17 17:03:46 <_andy> cahteh: i did try.. it didn't work but i've never flashed it before so I don't know if i'm doing something wrong or if the device is not flashable Feb 17 17:04:38 if you follow the instructions, flashing should work fine .. but i never heared about this 'malfunction' error, sounds somewhat serious Feb 17 17:04:47 maybe its really broken Feb 17 17:05:16 <_andy> cahteh: its not hardware, ii messed with /usr/lib. Feb 17 17:05:35 is there a single-command way to switch sb target? Feb 17 17:05:39 cehteh: thanks, thats what I needed to know. Feb 17 17:05:56 _andy: then flashing should work Feb 17 17:06:21 * RST38h moos at slonopotamus Feb 17 17:06:49 RST38h, aye Feb 17 17:06:53 ~ $ groups Feb 17 17:06:53 -sh: groups: not found Feb 17 17:06:57 .. how i like this :PO Feb 17 17:07:03 RST38h, trying to use sb :) Feb 17 17:07:35 :( Feb 17 17:07:37 there is sb-(tab) Feb 17 17:07:44 okaay Feb 17 17:07:48 not menu, set iirc Feb 17 17:07:51 in soviet russia, sb uses you Feb 17 17:08:08 woah, it builds my thing Feb 17 17:09:46 RST38h: i am going to work on a xchat notification light plugin, would you package it with xchat, i have no intention to go the packaging route for this by myself Feb 17 17:10:27 cehteh: Of course, let me know when you are ready and I will import it. There is a few more little changes pending too Feb 17 17:10:42 slonopotamus: I suggest sb2 Feb 17 17:10:52 ok thanks Feb 17 17:11:01 may take a bit Feb 17 17:11:04 slonopotamus: There you change with maemo-sdk, or supply a few command line parameters to avid going through menus Feb 17 17:11:24 cehteh: Afaik, it is sufficient to have a shell script that blinks the led, xchat will invoke it Feb 17 17:11:25 hm Feb 17 17:11:44 with meego it seems to me that sb/sb2 is dead too Feb 17 17:11:44 RST38h: not really .. it blinks but you cant turn it properly off Feb 17 17:11:51 oh, yes Feb 17 17:12:04 cehteh: it does not invoke the script to cancel it, correct :) Feb 17 17:12:17 woglinde: remember, we are still at maemo5 Feb 17 17:12:20 i am going to do this in C, written a xchat plugin before, not really a big deal Feb 17 17:12:30 rst *g* Feb 17 17:12:32 I know Feb 17 17:12:39 there is the hack on t.m.o to hook that script into the sound-playing bing Feb 17 17:12:40 * RST38h will probably get to use maeblin toolchains at work soon though Feb 17 17:12:41 but I live in future sometimes Feb 17 17:12:55 what are you guys using for irc on n900? irssi or xchat? whats better? Feb 17 17:13:03 cehteh: Make sure you do not use any timers. Feb 17 17:13:16 no i hook it into xchats notification things Feb 17 17:13:19 cehteh: Any running timer will basically prevent Maemo from sleeping and waste battery Feb 17 17:13:44 * RST38h wonders where qwerty is Feb 17 17:14:08 thats my intention, doing this in a 'correct' way Feb 17 17:14:27 hacks dont scale :P Feb 17 17:14:37 some do =) Feb 17 17:14:47 who got rid of ctrl-g for bell Feb 17 17:15:18 <_andy> cahteh i am happy to report it was windows driver weirdness.. flashing in an ubuntu vm worked. Feb 17 17:15:42 * RST38h imagines flashing from ubunutu vm and cringes involuntarily Feb 17 17:17:09 wow, a vm that supports usb Feb 17 17:17:51 RST38h seem he is only available via email Feb 17 17:24:49 hmm Feb 17 17:24:55 after the 1.1.1 update my screen never dims Feb 17 17:25:00 unless I lock it Feb 17 17:25:18 anyone experienced the same? Feb 17 17:26:57 red: theres an always on switch for the screen, checked that its off? Feb 17 17:27:03 ofcourse Feb 17 17:27:25 i did have flipclock installed priod to update, which had a feature of keeping the screen forced on while it's running Feb 17 17:27:51 so not quite sure if its a leftover bug from it, i uninstalled it before updating to 1.1.1 Feb 17 17:27:58 red: could be Feb 17 17:29:04 it indeed is a bug in flipclock Feb 17 17:29:15 ill see if tweaking the dim timeout back and forth resolves it Feb 17 17:29:41 works yay Feb 17 17:41:43 dazo: thanks, mine was showing a light when i rescued it, so i'm hoping it'll be ok, will know in a few hours Feb 17 17:43:01 how often do you use the N900? i keep pulling it out to look up things. maybe 80 times a day Feb 17 17:45:04 uahhahaa Feb 17 17:45:06 http://www.aavamobile.com/ Feb 17 17:45:12 FIRST!!!!!!!!!!!!! Feb 17 17:45:43 x86 phone... no thanks Feb 17 17:46:14 capacitive :( Feb 17 17:46:18 does Toggles_W stand for toggles_wet as you are currently toggeling your N900's state from "Wet" to "Dry"? Feb 17 17:46:37 they claim that they are FIRST Feb 17 17:46:40 thats the point Feb 17 17:46:42 lol Feb 17 17:46:54 ah well, everybody does it these days. Feb 17 17:47:12 it's just that they try to follow Apple, but only Apple has the story-rewriting RDF. Feb 17 17:47:21 okay Feb 17 17:47:23 bye Feb 17 17:47:25 ;) Feb 17 17:47:25 till later Feb 17 17:47:28 heading home Feb 17 17:47:42 javispedro: Why dont you like capacitive? (just curious) Feb 17 17:47:57 Wild_Doogy: cause I like a stylus. Feb 17 17:48:23 oh, me too, but I would like to mess with multitouch Feb 17 17:48:49 is there such a thing as a capacitive stylus? Feb 17 17:48:54 fine. But I prefer a stylus to multitouch and as you can guess multitouch with a stylus doesn't make much sense. Feb 17 17:48:55 multistylus Feb 17 17:48:55 (must be) Feb 17 17:49:01 there are capacitive stylus, but they all suck. Feb 17 17:49:10 see the tip. Feb 17 17:49:11 oh lol Feb 17 17:49:26 multi-stylus, hahaha Feb 17 17:49:33 its called fingernails Feb 17 17:50:26 as easy as eating with chopsticks Feb 17 17:50:37 a sausage works as a capacitive stylus Feb 17 17:50:46 hahaha Feb 17 17:50:56 rolling on the floor over here Feb 17 17:51:04 -smear- Feb 17 17:51:19 -click- -smear- Feb 17 17:51:25 smeegol Feb 17 17:51:42 isn't it there was a news article about how koreans are using this type of sausage as a stylus Feb 17 17:52:15 lol it's true. Feb 17 17:52:22 http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/02/12/iphone-sausage-stylus-kor_n_459845.html Feb 17 17:52:22 http://asia.cnet.com/i/r/2010/crave/hp/63016968/iphone_520x347.jpg Feb 17 17:52:26 mmm, sausage inna bun, anyone? Feb 17 17:52:32 my pdair case just arrived. Feb 17 17:52:32 that's waht she said Feb 17 17:52:33 :P Feb 17 17:52:39 we develop multi million dollar stylus, Koreans use sausage Feb 17 17:52:52 Wild_Doogy: s/sausage/$10 sausage/ Feb 17 17:53:00 hi, wondering if someone could help me out on what process they used to import their contacts from iphone to nokia n900 csv file doesnt work Feb 17 17:53:15 pros: reasonably good quality, everything is accessible Feb 17 17:53:34 cons: tick and keyboard is under the transparent film Feb 17 17:53:48 ...for a moment I though you were talking about the sausage stylus. Feb 17 17:55:01 ponyofdeath: I had some luck with contact cards. you end up with hundreds, but it LOOKS like you can combine then all into one card Feb 17 17:55:23 .vcf or something Feb 17 17:55:41 Wild_Doogy: ok cool i think someone documented that http://allurgroceries.com/iphone2n900/ Feb 17 17:56:18 welcome Feb 17 17:57:02 now, can anyone help me get my contacts out of yahoo mail? >_> Feb 17 17:57:29 currently it looks like I will be one-by-oneing it Feb 17 17:57:59 Wild_Doogy, no imap/pop3? Feb 17 17:58:08 Hello Feb 17 17:58:45 Is it normal that I haven't got the update to 3.2010.02-8? Feb 17 17:58:55 I mean on the N900? Feb 17 17:59:18 that costs money :-D Feb 17 17:59:35 not @ you flip Feb 17 17:59:42 ;-) Feb 17 17:59:56 ... n800 control panel doesn't want to swap to external sd :/ Feb 17 18:00:29 Sorry, is it the right channel for N900-related discussions? Feb 17 18:00:34 yes Feb 17 18:00:37 swapon to resque! Feb 17 18:00:44 flipouk, yep Feb 17 18:00:49 ok Feb 17 18:01:01 will the new Nokia/Intel alliance kill maemo? will the new Meego be the future of Maemo? will N900 run Meego? Feb 17 18:01:10 flip version 3X of what? Feb 17 18:01:47 Wild_Doogy: I refer to the firmware update, you know the minor one that popped up earlier this week Feb 17 18:02:24 * Arif demands a faster app manager in the next firmware :P Feb 17 18:02:53 smhar GOTO talk.maemo.org for endless chatter about that Feb 17 18:03:02 I should probably see what my version is then Feb 17 18:03:41 Wild_Doogy: do you mind checking? You would have noticed a firmware update though, wouldn't you? Feb 17 18:03:45 flipouk, it doesn't change anything for maemo5 and n900 Feb 17 18:04:03 I am in the UK... Maybe Brits get served later ;-) Feb 17 18:04:09 Probably maemo6 wont be fully meego either Feb 17 18:04:42 it's just m6 renamed to meego, this was confirmed previously (they will keep using .deb, etc.) Feb 17 18:04:51 flipouk, got n900 from voda or other operator? Feb 17 18:05:17 ShadowJK: I bought it directly from Nokia. Feb 17 18:05:27 And I am on O2 Feb 17 18:06:28 what's the difference between those firmwares anyway o_o Feb 17 18:06:28 hm Feb 17 18:06:41 arif: nobody knows Feb 17 18:06:52 flipouk: I just opened the app manager, and I wants me to update maemo 5 version 3.2010.02-8.002 Feb 17 18:06:53 (I cant actualy do that update till I get a SIM card) Feb 17 18:06:59 aw Feb 17 18:07:05 their existence seems to have come as a surprise to some developers even Feb 17 18:07:22 you can't update without simcard? really? Feb 17 18:07:27 Wild_Doogy: thanks. Feb 17 18:07:39 Nokia should be more open in what they throw at us Feb 17 18:07:40 :d Feb 17 18:07:45 yeah, it needs to use the computer, and the windows software gicks out Feb 17 18:08:00 Arif: the update is reported as being 'minor', no new functionnality Feb 17 18:08:31 I mean the regional differences Feb 17 18:08:34 Wild_Doogy, do you have ioquake installed? Feb 17 18:08:47 no actualy Feb 17 18:08:49 I struggled with the update Feb 17 18:08:50 I should Feb 17 18:08:54 finally got it by killing ovi maps Feb 17 18:08:57 :-D Feb 17 18:08:58 and then apt-get dist-upgrading Feb 17 18:09:07 seriously it needs like 50 megs free on root Feb 17 18:09:17 ouch Feb 17 18:09:20 I am forcing a manual check for update, just in case ... Feb 17 18:09:33 I just pressed the orange bulb on the desktop... Feb 17 18:10:22 Arif: well I was expecting to get this thing at some point as well... but it has not showed up Feb 17 18:10:35 Apparently you cant do ota upgrade if ioquake is installed Feb 17 18:10:35 argh 'no updates available' Feb 17 18:10:38 it doesn't add anything itneresting Feb 17 18:10:52 you're not missing out :P Feb 17 18:10:56 Arif: I guess it correct bugs though Feb 17 18:11:20 you should go through all the trouble when 1.2 comes out Feb 17 18:11:23 =D Feb 17 18:11:29 Arif: agreed Feb 17 18:11:49 OR if Sygic finally gets released and you really want it... Feb 17 18:12:06 but somehow I think that won't happen very soon Feb 17 18:12:19 Arif: what is Sygic? Feb 17 18:12:30 navigation software Feb 17 18:12:38 ok thx Feb 17 18:12:51 everyone's complaining the N900 can't say out loud you need to drive into a tree Feb 17 18:12:52 :D Feb 17 18:13:02 ;-) Feb 17 18:13:06 flipouk, it'd be interesting to see the output of: dpkg -l | grep maemo-fremantle Feb 17 18:13:13 I assume that there is an Ubuntu updater for the N900. anyone know where it is to be found? Feb 17 18:13:22 where can i read about the latest maemo update Feb 17 18:13:33 on this channel's topic., Feb 17 18:13:40 tablets-dev.nokia.com beware that "updating" with PC actually overwrites Feb 17 18:13:53 ShadowJK: hang on... Feb 17 18:14:08 god i have like nothing installed "not enough memory to upgrade" Feb 17 18:14:09 my only gripe with the device now is the bug I reported and no built in bluetooth sending :D Feb 17 18:14:21 the reason it says use pc is because something you installed conflicts Feb 17 18:14:38 oh? Feb 17 18:15:01 * Arif wonders if there's a way to request a feature in petrovich... Feb 17 18:15:05 javispedro: which part of hte topic theres 80 urls Feb 17 18:15:06 so the computer will then force the update, killing whatever is in the way Feb 17 18:15:14 ShadowJK: dpkg -l | grep maemo-fremantle doesn't return anything on my N900 ... Feb 17 18:15:23 acidjazz: http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_5/PR1.1.1 Feb 17 18:16:06 graci Feb 17 18:16:54 flipouk: so somehow you've ended up removing it I think... Feb 17 18:17:00 ive freed up like 200mb still nto enough room Feb 17 18:17:15 Don't tell me you need Windows to do a firmware upgrade!!!! :-( Feb 17 18:17:21 what happens if you try apt-get install maemo-fremantle-generic-pr Feb 17 18:17:36 acidjazz: space on /: df -h / Feb 17 18:17:46 ShadowJK: hang on I try... Feb 17 18:18:56 wow, there have been like a shitload of "open device" announcements Feb 17 18:19:10 now this http://www.openpeak.com/OpenTablet7.php Feb 17 18:19:37 toshiba also is shipping some kind of 7-8''ish tablet, I found it at a shop yesterday! Feb 17 18:19:37 acidjazz, disable extras-testing and extras-devel. just having them enabled consumes lots of space Feb 17 18:19:45 looks like Apple and thier "this software is closed, and sucks to be you" might be on a decline Feb 17 18:19:46 ShadowJK: ugh 33.6mb Feb 17 18:19:49 ShadowJK: it can't find the package Feb 17 18:20:02 ShadowJK: ok Feb 17 18:20:19 ShadowJK: I attempt a apt-get update Feb 17 18:21:08 oops Feb 17 18:21:08 the phones has f'ing 32gb's when is it going to fix this Feb 17 18:21:27 I was wrong, it's mp-fremantle-genric-pr Feb 17 18:21:35 not maemo-... Feb 17 18:21:40 ShadowJK: ok Feb 17 18:22:18 looks like battery-eye may have made it out of extras-devel Feb 17 18:22:27 its called battery graph Feb 17 18:22:33 apt-cache search mp-fremantle-generic-pr doesn't return anything Feb 17 18:22:52 even after apt-get update Feb 17 18:23:29 apt-cache search mp-fremantle returns: Feb 17 18:23:35 mp-fremantle-203-pr Feb 17 18:23:46 ShadowJK: do you reckon I shall install mp-fremantle-203-pr? Feb 17 18:24:14 is it installed? Feb 17 18:24:36 ShadowJK: yes Feb 17 18:24:43 dpkg -l | grep mp-freman Feb 17 18:24:48 ii mp-fremantle-203-pr 2.2009.51-1.203.2 Feb 17 18:24:52 ah ok Feb 17 18:25:11 * ShadowJK wonders what 203 is Feb 17 18:25:20 * ShadowJK pings timeless_mbp Feb 17 18:25:26 pong Feb 17 18:25:32 england iirc Feb 17 18:25:45 ShadowJK: I am in the same boat as acidjazz... I have about 37MB free on / and have disabled just about all the catalogs in the app manager... is there a (simple) way to see what apps are installed that are not "optified" Feb 17 18:25:55 or are taking up space on / Feb 17 18:26:00 if it isn't England, it might be a vendor in England Feb 17 18:26:14 ShadowJK: '203' stands for England? Feb 17 18:26:26 timeless_mbp: ok Feb 17 18:26:43 203 is the uk unbranded version Feb 17 18:26:43 why ask me? :) Feb 17 18:26:48 205 is uk vodafone network Feb 17 18:27:10 btw people should replace their 20x with a normal non England version Feb 17 18:27:14 they'll get faster updates Feb 17 18:27:22 and less poorly tested variant crud Feb 17 18:27:26 or nokia could just release them with the rest of the world Feb 17 18:27:38 or at least explain why they feel the need to delay it Feb 17 18:27:40 nidO: ok this makes sense, I bought my N900 directly from Nokia UK, in Regent Street, London Feb 17 18:28:09 timeless_mbp, I pinged you because I had a memory of you trying to figure out thee story behind the regional variants Feb 17 18:28:12 nidO: the reason is that the variants are created by a group of people who barely exist Feb 17 18:28:23 so why does nokia create them in the first place? Feb 17 18:28:27 and are terrible at communicating which version they want to publish Feb 17 18:28:30 nidO: well Feb 17 18:28:34 first you create the baseline Feb 17 18:28:39 203 is the *UNBRANDED* uk version, sold by nokia themselves Feb 17 18:28:41 then you create the basic england variant Feb 17 18:28:57 then you work with the operator to derive a variant from your england baseline Feb 17 18:29:05 no. Feb 17 18:29:06 read. Feb 17 18:29:09 why do the Brits need their own version :P Feb 17 18:29:10 203 isnt an operater variant Feb 17 18:29:13 the england variant enables the variants team to test variants Feb 17 18:29:19 nidO: it's still a variant Feb 17 18:29:23 its totally unbranded, unrelated to operators Feb 17 18:29:26 in that there's a "variants team" Feb 17 18:29:31 but its only a variant because nokia choose to make it one. Feb 17 18:29:36 Arif: Other regulations for instance. Feb 17 18:29:38 which is responsible for producing both it and the normal operator variants Feb 17 18:29:43 they made it a variant for no good reason, and no arent updating it. Feb 17 18:29:59 nidO: oh, it's useful Feb 17 18:30:02 can't you just put those settings in the selected region? Feb 17 18:30:03 if they make the variant and apply it on english phones they sell, it's their responsibility to keep it up to date with the rest of the world as well Feb 17 18:30:11 how else would we know that we can or can't make a variant for an operator? :) Feb 17 18:30:15 nidO: UK has other rules for FM transmitter iirc. Things like that differ. Feb 17 18:30:17 you have to test this stuff somehow Feb 17 18:30:35 nidO: so complain to nokia care Feb 17 18:30:43 potential differences between the uk and global firmware have been investigated to death by uk users Feb 17 18:30:48 and there's no discernable difference Feb 17 18:30:49 and get your british friends to complain too Feb 17 18:31:06 been there, done that Feb 17 18:31:07 nidO: Then just install generic? Feb 17 18:31:07 nidO: i certainly don't know of any useful difference Feb 17 18:31:15 but you really should just install generic Feb 17 18:31:16 damn upgrade broke my volume button, it works just for a while after reboot Feb 17 18:31:19 i've said that repeatedly Feb 17 18:32:09 I have, but the fact remains that there's no logic in nokia selling nokia phones with a variant firmware that's only used for phones sold by nokia in one country, and nokia then doesnt update it, virtually forcing users to have to potentially void their phone's warranty by flashing to a different firmware. Feb 17 18:32:43 i'm pretty certain flashing firmware doesn't void the warranty Feb 17 18:32:45 nidO: It does get updated, it is just a different team. Working a bit slower ;) Feb 17 18:32:48 but i won't argue that it isn't stupid Feb 17 18:32:51 you'd think it wouldnt Feb 17 18:32:54 nokia care thinks it does Feb 17 18:33:05 so complain to ari Feb 17 18:33:10 he has a public blog Feb 17 18:33:10 despite it being a nokia firmware flashed using a nokia tool to a nokia device Feb 17 18:33:13 flame him Feb 17 18:33:26 * Trizt had to flash his girlfriends phone as the one sold in sweden didn't support traditional Chinese Feb 17 18:33:34 hello, anyone know how to categorize a project in "trove software mape". the email says to go to "project page and select 'Project Admin'" which doesn't exist Feb 17 18:33:42 it's worth noting that nokia care is not perfect Feb 17 18:33:45 i've caught them screwing up Feb 17 18:33:49 I noticed. Feb 17 18:34:12 when they mess up: Feb 17 18:34:13 1. document it Feb 17 18:34:17 2. demand to speak to a manager Feb 17 18:34:20 3. document it Feb 17 18:34:40 timeless: oh, that will get handy for me soon, when I get my n900 back. Feb 17 18:37:24 ok so it is just a matter of waiting a little bit. no big deal. thanks guys Feb 17 18:37:46 flipouk: please do complain to nokia care Feb 17 18:37:53 you need X people to fill a bucket Feb 17 18:38:01 if you fill the bucket (best to overflow), it will get raised faster Feb 17 18:38:09 and people will try to force things to happen faster Feb 17 18:39:19 timeless_mbp: well to be honest I don't a good reason to complain so far... Feb 17 18:39:32 flipouk: you spent 20mins of our time Feb 17 18:39:38 do us a favor and spend 10mins of nokia care's time Feb 17 18:40:39 flipouk it's also worth noting that this delayed update is minor and doesnt really bring much - when the 1.2 update gets delayed by 1/2/3/4 days/weeks/months for your firmware it's going to hurt more Feb 17 18:41:06 9yeah Feb 17 18:41:20 you really should take this as an opportunity to try to grease the wheels for the next one Feb 17 18:41:48 timeless_mbp: do you think that it's a big problem to get an update a littli bit late? Feb 17 18:42:04 consider that sometimes it's a security update Feb 17 18:42:10 because e.g. your web browser is exploitable Feb 17 18:42:22 if you don't care about the data on your device, then that's fine Feb 17 18:42:35 timeless_mbp: you have a point... Feb 17 18:43:02 :) Feb 17 18:43:05 from a joe home user standpoint as well though flipouk, the 1.2 update will also bring qt4.6 which will ultimately = significant functionality improvements in the form of tons more extra software Feb 17 18:43:18 none of which will be usable without the update Feb 17 18:43:18 that won't install on pre 1.2 :) Feb 17 18:43:49 * Arkenoi wonders if DataViz is going to release a full editor version of DtG Feb 17 18:44:02 ok. let's find out how to contact nokia care then... Feb 17 18:44:36 cat /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/02cache Feb 17 18:44:36 Dir::Cache::archives "/home/user/MyDocs/.apt-archive-cache/"; Feb 17 18:44:45 adding that helps with apt-get still having room on / Feb 17 18:44:45 :) Feb 17 18:44:53 I do wonder why nokia doesn't do that by default Feb 17 18:45:21 ok, I am confused. /opt is not mounted separately. df -h shows / has 39.5M free. du -h /opt/rovio shows 18.5M - remove angry birds via app mgr and /opt/rovio is now gone, but now df -h shows 39.0M free makes no sense any ideas? Feb 17 18:45:39 mtnbkr, /opt is a symlink to /home/opt Feb 17 18:45:48 ruskie: i think we will for .next Feb 17 18:45:56 not certain, ask konttori tomorrow Feb 17 18:46:14 so unless /home is mounted everything will get put on / Feb 17 18:46:49 ruskie: Jesus Christ, I am retarded. I forgot to look for that,... sigh... thanks Feb 17 18:47:45 was working quickyl from slide out k/b before sshing in... much better now. but I am still unable to get ~50M free on / for update Feb 17 18:48:01 mtnbkr, first do: apt-get clean Feb 17 18:48:11 then edit: /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/02cache Feb 17 18:48:14 and put in: Dir::Cache::archives "/home/user/MyDocs/.apt-archive-cache/"; Feb 17 18:48:23 that will certainly help with apt :) Feb 17 18:48:52 mtnbkr: i found a script on the forums to check which packages take the most of rootfs. i've found out that the bigger for me were angry birds, aisleriot and wikihow. you could give it a try Feb 17 18:48:56 ruskie: does that help the app manager (which I believe to be using apt in the bavckground) Feb 17 18:49:09 ham actually already puts things into: /home/user/MyDocs/.apt-archive-cache/ Feb 17 18:49:15 still apt-get clean might help you out a bit Feb 17 18:49:39 simoneb_: heh I just deleted angry birds and then more space was used on / very strange. apt-get clean got my up to 40.2M though Feb 17 18:50:12 mtnbkr: removed every repo except the first 3? Feb 17 18:50:26 mtnbkr: cleared .debs in dpkg's cache? Feb 17 18:50:45 you only really need: ssu/apps and ssu/mr0 Feb 17 18:50:51 mtnbkr: And reboot your device, can help too. Feb 17 18:50:59 lol what are these frenzy games Feb 17 18:51:00 are they wack Feb 17 18:51:09 simoneb_: yep... only 1st two repos enabled right now Feb 17 18:52:04 simoneb_: being a gentoo user, debian's apt and dpkg stuff is a little new to me... how, where are these .debs Feb 17 18:52:19 apt-get clean should have cleaned those out Feb 17 18:52:36 mtnbkr: uhm... should be /var/cache/apt iirc Feb 17 18:52:57 /var/cache/apt/archives/ Feb 17 18:53:09 lol just removed the "maemo tools" catalog and am back down to 39.9M heh Feb 17 18:53:17 simoneb_ greenfly thanks... will check there too Feb 17 18:53:32 mtnbkr, do you have /home mounted? Feb 17 18:53:32 but that will only come into play if you had fun with apt-get on the command line Feb 17 18:54:10 greenfly: I think I only apt-got one or maybe two packages so far. Feb 17 18:54:47 nothing in /var/cache/apt/archives/ except lock file and empty "partial" dir Feb 17 18:54:53 then don't worry about it Feb 17 18:54:58 apt-get clean cleaned that out for you :) Feb 17 18:55:01 yep Feb 17 18:55:01 other culprits: unused themes in /usr/share/themes/ Feb 17 18:55:05 abiword Feb 17 18:55:23 bah Feb 17 18:55:24 other -devel packages Feb 17 18:55:26 kmplayer really sucks Feb 17 18:55:31 ahh I bet themes is the one... I have a couple installed I think Feb 17 18:55:32 mtnbkr: i used those scripts to check for non-optified packages http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=500101&postcount=7 Feb 17 18:55:33 * cehteh still figuring out how to solve lvl15 in angry birds with more than 60k points ... Feb 17 18:55:36 Arif, better then sib Feb 17 18:55:45 I'm trying that one now Feb 17 18:56:00 KMPlayer likes to just stop playing media if you go do something else :P Feb 17 18:56:18 hmm used to keep playing for me Feb 17 18:56:45 * X-Fade saw a TV ad for the N900 on one of our major channels. Feb 17 18:57:06 uh? Feb 17 18:57:12 ? Feb 17 18:57:17 Yesterday too. Feb 17 18:57:54 where are you? Feb 17 18:57:59 NL Feb 17 18:58:14 was it before/after RTL boulevard? :P Feb 17 18:58:34 Arif: yes. Feb 17 18:58:43 you should find something better to watch :P Feb 17 18:59:02 Arif: Research of course :) Feb 17 18:59:18 * Arif doesn't have Dutch channels himself :p Feb 17 18:59:24 only TMobile web 'n walk tv Feb 17 18:59:34 Arif: And how did you know about it then :D Feb 17 18:59:45 someone told me :O Feb 17 18:59:53 "I saw your phone on RTL" Feb 17 18:59:54 Sure.. Feb 17 19:00:26 and I read it on tweakers :P Feb 17 19:00:26 cehteh: I wonder if my angry birds scores are gone since I removed AB I see no .angrybirds or .rovio dir in my ~/ nor my ~/MyDocs :( Feb 17 19:00:50 mtnbkr: reflash == scores gone. Feb 17 19:02:00 try ~/.config and ~/.local, too Feb 17 19:04:40 satmd: :( only wormux and some other stuff inthere (and I already removed wormux app) That means I need to replay all my AB levels. :) Feb 17 19:05:08 :) Feb 17 19:07:25 mtnbkr, do: apt-get remove wormux-data Feb 17 19:07:41 * ruskie hates HAM... can we get a NORMAL apt frontend aready Feb 17 19:08:24 why a front end? Feb 17 19:08:30 frontend* Feb 17 19:08:30 yes, yum for meego :P Feb 17 19:08:55 arachnist, because there are "normal" people that use it :) Feb 17 19:09:08 orly? ;) Feb 17 19:10:08 cehteh, yum or apt-get... doesn't really matter Feb 17 19:10:36 when it comes to binary they all suck anyway :) Feb 17 19:11:19 well Feb 17 19:11:29 at least rpm spec files are not a hell to write Feb 17 19:11:37 haven't really tried Feb 17 19:11:57 i've written/modified quite a few Feb 17 19:12:41 but if it's any better then the hack ad infinitum that are debian packages it's probably easier Feb 17 19:13:08 * cehteh notes nixos ... Feb 17 19:16:50 Supercover Insurance is alleging that many iPhone owners are deliberately smashing their devices and filing false claims in order to upgrade to the latest model. The gadget insurance company told Sky News Sunday that it saw a 50-percent rise in claims during the month Apple launched the latest version, the iPhone 3GS.' Feb 17 19:17:16 and of course the insurance companies are at fault here. Feb 17 19:17:24 half life on a iphone-like device: 6 months Feb 17 19:17:31 s/on/of Feb 17 19:17:55 javispedro: N900 included? Feb 17 19:17:59 definitely Feb 17 19:18:01 lol Feb 17 19:18:10 javispedro: depressive Feb 17 19:19:58 simoneb_: BAM ->> perl -I. checkpkgs.pl 6564 adobe-flashplayer 6M sheesh Feb 17 19:20:08 lol Feb 17 19:20:28 ...and I. HATE. FLASH. Feb 17 19:20:49 hater! Feb 17 19:20:50 rootfs 227.8M 196.6M 27.0M 88% / <-- and I've removed a ton of things Feb 17 19:20:51 dpkg --purge to the rescue Feb 17 19:21:04 among them flash, mediaplayer and a ton of others Feb 17 19:21:13 mtnbkr, btw have any custom boot videos? Feb 17 19:21:22 I am apt-get removing it... (at least for now) Feb 17 19:21:26 ruskie: nope Feb 17 19:21:26 249.5M 144.2M 105.3M 58% sometimes I think I'm just deadly lucky. Feb 17 19:21:39 oh really? Feb 17 19:21:45 all repos disabled, no apps? Feb 17 19:21:48 you are javispedro! Feb 17 19:21:57 javispedro, lol... I at a time had 180 free I think :) Feb 17 19:21:57 or have you moved stuff to the memory card? Feb 17 19:22:02 no, I'm lying. Feb 17 19:22:05 this is n810 :( Feb 17 19:22:08 the dangers of ssh. Feb 17 19:22:19 but since n900 requires stuff from /usr I can't do that anymore Feb 17 19:22:48 apt-get --purge removed all installed programs? Feb 17 19:22:50 :-D Feb 17 19:23:00 *removes Feb 17 19:23:05 nope Feb 17 19:23:13 just removes any cruft left behind Feb 17 19:23:19 config files and such Feb 17 19:23:29 that does nothing Feb 17 19:23:32 without a package Feb 17 19:24:57 does the n810 have a larger rootfs? Feb 17 19:25:14 iirc it has SD cards only Feb 17 19:25:25 or does it? Feb 17 19:25:35 lol http://pastebin.ca/1800390 I guess it is easier to just temporarily move the libflashplayer.so file to /home/user, update then move it back.. hah Feb 17 19:25:56 ruskie: see my df -h line, it seems to have a slightly larger rootfs (probably due to less jffs2 overhead) Feb 17 19:26:18 N810 has same root size as N900. N810 however has no /opt Feb 17 19:26:21 well n900 uses ubifs Feb 17 19:27:17 yeah, that's what I mean. less jffs2 overhead when compared to ubifs Feb 17 19:27:58 i've noticed that the n900 uses a 64kb block size or it's me? Feb 17 19:28:01 * mtnbkr wonders why storage space is always so limited on devices... isn;t flash mem cheap yet. Feb 17 19:28:26 raw nand isn't cheap seems. Feb 17 19:31:18 in italy, we'll soon have a tax for that. Feb 17 19:32:04 was around 0.80€ per GB or so. it doesn't apply to mobile phones and mp3 players (for now) Feb 17 19:32:08 simoneb_, you mean "pirate" tax Feb 17 19:32:15 we've had that for a while Feb 17 19:32:21 and a few others as well Feb 17 19:32:45 ruskie: really? where? Feb 17 19:33:14 right side of italy :) Feb 17 19:33:41 small little country :) Feb 17 19:34:15 like in croatia... or like in predappio? Feb 17 19:34:26 croatia is small ??? Feb 17 19:34:37 depends on what you compare it with Feb 17 19:34:47 you sure you're looking at the right map ? ;) Feb 17 19:35:10 it's stuck between Italy, Austria, Hungary and Croatia Feb 17 19:35:55 slovenia? Feb 17 19:35:58 bingo Feb 17 19:36:07 I did say small :) Feb 17 19:36:15 not that croatia is that bigger :P Feb 17 19:36:57 * simoneb_ dinner Feb 17 19:37:15 20000 km^2 vs 56000 km^2 Feb 17 19:37:27 wifi bug seemes to be fixed for me Feb 17 19:37:43 woot, no more rebboting after using wifi Feb 17 19:46:51 sweet! update went fine, re-installed Angry birds and my scores are all there. :) Feb 17 19:57:02 so. Feb 17 19:57:12 so no u Feb 17 19:57:18 how i do that your 'optification'? Feb 17 19:58:53 "you have been unsubscribed from the Meego-Dev mailing list" Feb 17 19:58:58 thank god :) Feb 17 19:59:15 * RST38h moos at wazd for not unchecking that box in his meego profile to begin with Feb 17 19:59:22 wazd: how is iTheme? =) Feb 17 19:59:22 wazd, the list should be renamed to rpm-vs-deb Feb 17 20:01:28 RST38h: well, currently I have to do something for money quickly :D Feb 17 20:01:33 wth. I edited the files in /usr/share/rtcom-messaging-ui/html/, but the edits persist even after I've restored them to the originals Feb 17 20:01:38 RST38h: cause I really want to eat :) Feb 17 20:01:57 wazd: figured things out with Roman? Feb 17 20:02:05 RST38h: nope Feb 17 20:02:12 RST38h: whatever Feb 17 20:02:59 wazd: I am not getting why it shouldbe so difficult :) Feb 17 20:03:36 RST38h: me too actually :) Feb 17 20:04:29 wazd: Will go to US on march 4th and *ask* =) Feb 17 20:05:08 even if you choose "digest" at the subscription form, I'm getting 20 or 30 digests _per day_ Feb 17 20:05:25 I wonder if it said "hourly digest" somewhere. Feb 17 20:05:30 RST38h: but anyway, all that delays blew up my budget a bit :) Feb 17 20:05:33 javispedro: did I tell you how I hate mailing lists? :) Feb 17 20:05:47 wazd: I think we have to organize it differently Feb 17 20:05:53 RST38h: I'm just waiting for gmane to subscribe to it (sent email already) Feb 17 20:06:27 javispedro: seriously, MeeGo-Dev is currently a spam generator :) Feb 17 20:06:37 Is there a way to switch keyboard layouts in easydebian applications? Feb 17 20:06:45 yes, I'm worried that gmane staff may deduce it's a spam list >:) Feb 17 20:07:11 javispedro: I would unsubscribe and wait for archives to become available on the web Feb 17 20:07:18 Anyone have their update yet in the UK? Feb 17 20:07:23 Still nothing here Feb 17 20:08:39 SWFu64: nothing here too. (uk) Feb 17 20:08:48 (though I last tried a couple of hours ago) Feb 17 20:09:20 Nothing as of about 30 seconds either Feb 17 20:14:20 SpeedEvil: you still have the uk firmware? Feb 17 20:15:15 wow Feb 17 20:15:18 now that's cool Feb 17 20:15:53 Windows 7 uses taskbar glow according to the icon color Feb 17 20:16:06 ShadowJK: ? Feb 17 20:16:11 "MeeGo-dev Digest, Vol 1, Issue 36". sigh. Feb 17 20:16:14 36 times today. Feb 17 20:16:30 seriously, wow! Feb 17 20:16:49 wazd: yes, but they had to fix the "autodetection" for some of the builtin apps =) Feb 17 20:16:49 wazd: wtf do we care about win7? Feb 17 20:16:57 SpeedEvil: apparently the unknown people who do the castration, erm, variants havent done anything yet Feb 17 20:17:49 El_Angelo: I don't know why you care :) Feb 17 20:18:01 Does n900 automatically save location information to the pictures? Feb 17 20:18:16 javispedro: seriously, that doesn't look like microsoft at all. Such a subliminal move Feb 17 20:18:43 wazd: I remember they advertised that well on the first w7 days Feb 17 20:18:49 dassu: if you ask it to Feb 17 20:18:55 javispedro: oh :) Feb 17 20:18:58 wazd: it all looks very appleish to me Feb 17 20:19:24 wazd: in fact I kept seeing the first os x dock with their uniform color per each dock item Feb 17 20:19:47 (those were not "autodetected" but hardcodec iirc) Feb 17 20:20:48 javispedro: pidgin has purple glow! wow! :D Feb 17 20:21:03 hehe Feb 17 20:21:11 they had to hardcode the wmp color. Feb 17 20:21:18 or the cpanel one, I don't remember. Feb 17 20:21:22 SpeedEvil: what is the default value? Feb 17 20:21:35 dassu: I don't remember. Feb 17 20:24:02 can anyone help me get locate (or slocate or mlocate) installed? it complains about busybox's findutils package. Feb 17 20:25:04 SpeedEvil: But "exiv2 pr" should show the values if it was there ? In other words: The geodata is saved in the exif ? Feb 17 20:26:07 dassu: if it's there at all Feb 17 20:26:20 cool :) Feb 17 20:26:29 Well, I ended up doing exiv2 rm just in case Feb 17 20:27:43 http://www.flickr.com/photos/14560445@N08/4259431966/meta/ Feb 17 20:29:10 where i find docs on optification? Feb 17 20:29:58 Pgrodt: if you're talking about my findutils-gnu package, I'm about to upload a new version Feb 17 20:30:23 morning Feb 17 20:31:52 t-tan: i briefly saw the existence of it, but didnt try installing it, since i wasnt sure if it was what i needed. Feb 17 20:32:55 Pgrodt: the locate package of it is completely untested and probably not good for battery life when updatedb runs Feb 17 20:33:30 slonopotamus: what kind of docs? Feb 17 20:35:01 simoneb_, on its usage Feb 17 20:35:05 ... Feb 17 20:35:22 tex-common cannot poostinst in sb. Feb 17 20:35:29 have workaround? Feb 17 20:36:42 slonopotamus: i think there is no "usage" for optification. optification means that most/all of a package should stand in /opt, so, as a developer you should take care to place every file in /opt, and use references to there in your code Feb 17 20:37:41 slonopotamus, gitorious maemo-optify has a writeup Feb 17 20:37:49 simoneb_, there's maemo-optify package that somehow hellps with this Feb 17 20:37:54 lcuk, k Feb 17 20:38:06 t-tan: presuming its just done through cron, i just intended to remove the job and call updatedb manually as needed. Feb 17 20:48:39 So, I am trying to install the latest maemo update Feb 17 20:48:48 and it keeps telling me there is not enough space in my target location Feb 17 20:48:59 my rootfs has more space open than the update requires Feb 17 20:49:05 re Feb 17 20:49:14 jef, remove extras development etc Feb 17 20:49:27 to free up rootfs Feb 17 20:49:39 My root fs has 30megs open Feb 17 20:49:43 the update is 16 megs Feb 17 20:49:46 how many does it need?... Feb 17 20:49:47 needs 43 Feb 17 20:49:48 apt-get purge mught help Feb 17 20:49:54 dont work like that Feb 17 20:49:56 jef packaged Feb 17 20:50:04 ahh gay Feb 17 20:50:08 Jef91: its 16 + unpacked packages, not just 16 Feb 17 20:50:08 40 plus needed Feb 17 20:50:09 unpacked it will be more Feb 17 20:50:10 Fucking Nokia Feb 17 20:50:16 <_andy> anyone had luck resizing the root partition with parted? Feb 17 20:50:16 niiice Feb 17 20:50:17 in what position? Feb 17 20:50:36 andy: Sorry, but why would you resize root partition? Feb 17 20:50:37 _andy why? Feb 17 20:50:49 You cannot make it much bigger and it makes no sense to make it even smaller Feb 17 20:50:52 optif is running quiet well Feb 17 20:50:53 <_andy> woglinde: so that they didn't have to micromanage drive space on it in order to install a nokia update :P Feb 17 20:50:53 RST38h because it is retarded being only 256 egs? Feb 17 20:51:05 got a better solution? Feb 17 20:51:14 jef91 which is enough for most stuff Feb 17 20:51:17 Jef: No, I asked in what position you were fucking Nokia Feb 17 20:51:18 <_andy> symlinking to a seperate device is messy.. Feb 17 20:51:18 its retarded....but fast! ;) Feb 17 20:51:44 _andy: symlinks are messy? how? Feb 17 20:51:52 _andy: would bind mounts make you happy? Feb 17 20:51:54 Preparing to replace mp-fremantle-generic-pr 2.2009.51-1.hrw0 (using .../mp-fremantle-generic-pr_3.2010.02-8.hrw1_all.deb) ... Feb 17 20:52:14 so users of my modest build are able to upgrade to pr1.1.1 Feb 17 20:52:16 <_andy> valdyn: no.. i suppose just when they break it can be confusing. Feb 17 20:52:17 python uses bind mounts ;-) Feb 17 20:52:27 hrw: that is your own version of metaupdate that includes modest fixes? Feb 17 20:52:32 oh ok Feb 17 20:52:59 Jef91, disable extras-testing and extras-devel. Having them enabled uses about 20megs. Feb 17 20:53:11 run apt-get clean Feb 17 20:53:21 ShadowJK: Actually, the master hint is to remove libqt4 Feb 17 20:53:39 _andy, the device is 256megs big. I believe it's a 256/256 chip, and probably the biggest one available (in volume) at the time N900 was designed? Feb 17 20:53:45 ShadowJK: And use apt-get to update, as it shows more information about the failure Feb 17 20:53:46 So, did anybody poke the new apt sources to figure out what Nokia broke for PR1.1.1? Feb 17 20:53:54 RST38h, that removes maemo-fremantle-pr ? Feb 17 20:54:12 General: Or, better, use the old apt binary to leech commercial stuff =) Feb 17 20:54:13 <_andy> ShadowJK. oh.. i se.. Feb 17 20:54:16 * RST38h hehes Feb 17 20:54:23 RST38h, yeah, that was my thought. Feb 17 20:54:35 RST38h, watching Nokia try to secure this stuff is pathetic. Feb 17 20:55:01 ShadowJK: well, looks like maemo-fremantle-pr (new one) has some problems with certain qt4 installations, they have to be manually purged Feb 17 20:55:09 So can't they do per-device authentication with the magic used for the nokia binaries.. Feb 17 20:55:18 General: To think of it, you can probably access stuff with firefox :) Feb 17 20:55:35 RST38h, also likely. Feb 17 20:55:54 General: But yes, they definitely need a guy who understands what he is doing. Whoever is doing systems design for Ovi right now is not up to the task Feb 17 20:57:16 <_andy> so is there going to be MeeGo firmware? Feb 17 20:57:20 <_andy> (not trolling) Feb 17 20:57:24 no. Feb 17 20:57:27 (trolling) Feb 17 20:57:38 RST38h: waiting for pr1.2 to provide newer modest packages Feb 17 20:57:48 _andy, if anything meego makes the N900's future look better than it did before Feb 17 20:58:03 Officially, meego changes nothing for N900 Feb 17 20:58:04 ironically, yes Feb 17 20:58:51 <_andy> ShadowJK: i was just wondering if nokia had announced any plans to push it out to the N900 as a firmware update. Feb 17 20:58:54 hmmm Feb 17 20:59:05 i asked some people to test d2g on the iphone Feb 17 20:59:11 _andy, Nope. They hadn't announced any plans for Maemo 6 on N900 either. Feb 17 20:59:15 seems that they have WAY better implementeation Feb 17 20:59:21 that sucks! Feb 17 20:59:29 _andy, whether Nokia does it or not is fairly irrelevant. Feb 17 20:59:36 _andy, it's going to happen one way or another. Feb 17 21:00:07 * ShadowJK 's battery was 10% higher this evening than "normally", placebo effect of 1.1.1 in action Feb 17 21:00:51 Some power consumption related issues were fixed Feb 17 21:00:57 is here a way I can check which packages I have are from devel/using root space? Feb 17 21:01:02 <_andy> can i shield my N900 from gamma ray bursts? Feb 17 21:01:02 I forget which I took from there... Feb 17 21:01:16 I think that nokia will not add n900 into meego. community may add it and build/maintain kind of meego/n900 HE Feb 17 21:02:10 this way they do not have to do anything Feb 17 21:02:41 cough ... mer... Feb 17 21:03:00 pupnik__: i'm pretty much telling people to contribute to meego Feb 17 21:06:45 stskeeps: I was thinking earlier that meego makes Mer obsolete in many ways Feb 17 21:07:11 Nothing prevents Sts from basing nexrt mer on meego Feb 17 21:07:21 ShadowJK: i don't mind, it's a fullfilment of most hopes we had and goals. Feb 17 21:07:28 yeah Feb 17 21:07:38 err Feb 17 21:08:04 ShadowJK: it doesn't mean there's no reason to not merge Mer into the project and fight for our ideas and principles, though Feb 17 21:08:07 anyone else experiences misbehang clock in sb in virtualbox? Feb 17 21:08:14 i mean, our build guy is doing meego OBS stuff :) Feb 17 21:08:25 i just fetched a file in 4658 days. Feb 17 21:09:20 maybe it was out of sync when you started it Feb 17 21:09:36 no, it happens often Feb 17 21:09:54 anyeoine using Nokia Messaging on their N900? is mail actaully being sent? Feb 17 21:09:59 Stskeeps, I obviously didn't mean "obsoletes" in a bad sense :) Feb 17 21:10:14 ShadowJK: i didn't either :) Feb 17 21:10:14 make complains aboout clock scew, some files with modification in future... Feb 17 21:10:46 asj_: it works fine for "standard" mail providers like google mail, not for most i guess, not for mine Feb 17 21:10:52 how does meego make mer obsolete? more devices? Feb 17 21:11:04 valdyn: not working for google for me or wife Feb 17 21:12:06 asj_: youre using the web ui to configure it, right? Feb 17 21:12:25 pupnik__: it would be stupid to continue parralell work where we are essentially doing the same. Feb 17 21:12:27 I haven't used the webui in months Feb 17 21:13:08 Stskeeps: i thought the point was that mer targeted unsupported devices Feb 17 21:13:11 asj_: i dont even see a way to set it up on the n900 Feb 17 21:13:23 valdyn: add account it asks right there Feb 17 21:13:26 pwnguin: meego will too. Feb 17 21:13:42 asj_: thats a nokia messaging account, not your google account Feb 17 21:14:07 valdyn: nokia messaging does google via imap Feb 17 21:14:16 asj_: it does not send via imap Feb 17 21:14:24 asj_: which is what we are talking about... Feb 17 21:14:33 asj_: port 465, enable ssl Feb 17 21:14:39 * asj_ face palms Feb 17 21:14:51 asj: do you have both mfe calendar sync and nm email enabled at the same time for the same account? Feb 17 21:14:56 valdyn: try not to help if you don';t know what you are talking about Feb 17 21:15:11 asj_: i know very well what im talking about Feb 17 21:15:13 Arkenoi: for different accounts Feb 17 21:15:21 valdyn: you don't know NM Feb 17 21:15:23 gut gut Feb 17 21:15:41 it is strange then Feb 17 21:16:05 i switched mfe from direct google sync to nuevasync and it fixed the problem Feb 17 21:16:09 Arkenoi: yeah it's really annoying since it says "sending" then "sent" but it never really goes out Feb 17 21:16:23 hmm Feb 17 21:16:33 then it is not that bug i was thinking about Feb 17 21:16:54 Arkenoi: yeah, I was going to do the same, but I think mfe eats more battery life Feb 17 21:17:45 is it a good idea to put libgnomeiu in extras? Feb 17 21:17:51 is anybody interested in supporting or contributing to a Debian-MeeGo project (packaging MeeGo components for Debian)? Feb 17 21:17:54 odd when I went to log into NM web UI it said "you have to change your password" Feb 17 21:19:06 hello Feb 17 21:20:32 * Arif blinks Feb 17 21:22:21 t-tan: what do you mean? Feb 17 21:22:29 is the rpm stuff set in stone? Feb 17 21:22:32 anyone else having issues adding and imaps server to nokia n900? Feb 17 21:22:53 i am getting host/port errors but i know for a fact they are working Feb 17 21:23:25 pupnik__: for the MeeGo distribution, yes, but you could implement the MeeGo environment on other real distros Feb 17 21:24:04 ponyofdeath, works ok for me Feb 17 21:24:27 slonopotamus: do u have imap over ssl with an self generated cert? Feb 17 21:25:19 ponyofdeath, yep, exactly Feb 17 21:26:20 ponyofdeath, modest might require restart between setup and first connect Feb 17 21:26:36 I wonder if there's g_serial Feb 17 21:28:30 no problems with ssl imap for me either Feb 17 21:29:19 ponyofdeath, afaik, gmail uses imaps Feb 17 21:29:45 ponyofdeath, if it didn't work, tons of complaints would emerge Feb 17 21:30:35 ponyofdeath, didn't you mess ssl/tls? Feb 17 21:34:09 slonopotamus: well i even just tried without imaps Feb 17 21:34:22 slonopotamus: so ur saying might require restart Feb 17 21:34:30 hmmm. Esmertec just switched Dalvik to JIT Feb 17 21:41:29 NM is terrible Feb 17 21:56:52 hai Feb 17 21:57:04 is there any modification for the unlocking-process? Feb 17 21:57:32 currently, when i'm walking with the phone in my bag, it sometimes unlocks Feb 17 21:57:52 worst thing which happened, was calling a customer -.- Feb 17 21:58:26 how should in unlock? Feb 17 21:59:16 maybe with a gesture (not just a straight line) or a pin Feb 17 21:59:30 people any ideas why i'm not getting the latest update 1.1.1 ? hasn't it been released worldwide yet? Feb 17 21:59:40 www.pt-br.justin.tv/sportplusbr [00:00] NBA: DALLAS MAVERICKS X PHOENIX SUNS Feb 17 21:59:47 Ian-- wlan or umts? Feb 17 21:59:48 somebody have used aircrack-ng under maemo5? Feb 17 22:00:03 wlan Feb 17 22:00:19 which country? Feb 17 22:00:25 malta europe Feb 17 22:00:31 hm Feb 17 22:00:48 Ian-- - Settings > about Feb 17 22:00:49 akamai is in service Feb 17 22:00:55 whats your current version Feb 17 22:00:58 maybee malta comes latetest Feb 17 22:01:26 i should have the version 1.1 Feb 17 22:01:33 whats the full version listed Feb 17 22:01:37 in fact version is 2.2009.51-1 Feb 17 22:01:48 and after that? Feb 17 22:02:15 2.2009.51-1.203.2 Feb 17 22:02:21 uk variant phone Feb 17 22:02:32 nokia havent bothered releasing the firmware update to uk phones yet Feb 17 22:02:35 christ knows why. Feb 17 22:02:44 o ic Feb 17 22:03:09 never know what the idiot government does Feb 17 22:03:19 what again? Feb 17 22:04:21 it's nokia, not the govt Feb 17 22:04:50 hope that it won't take too long Feb 17 22:05:08 n900 is just amazingly kickass Feb 17 22:05:29 getting uswd to the keyboard and im really fast now Feb 17 22:05:38 ergh typos still Feb 17 22:05:46 uswd? Feb 17 22:07:40 used Feb 17 22:08:12 und was geht ab alter? Feb 17 22:10:47 re javis Feb 17 22:11:08 hi Feb 17 22:12:34 nite all, sweet dreams Feb 17 22:17:25 * pwnguin discovers someone uploaded coreutils & more Feb 17 22:17:27 yay Feb 17 22:18:21 but is it busybox-conflicting, device-bricking coreutils, or some working thing? Feb 17 22:18:36 it installs to /usr/bin/gnu Feb 17 22:18:38 or smth Feb 17 22:19:17 pwnguin: yes, it was me Feb 17 22:19:56 I'm just uploaded a version which also generates g* versions in /usr/bin Feb 17 22:20:01 im also glad less was installed Feb 17 22:20:09 s/uploaded/uploading/ Feb 17 22:20:10 t-tan meant: I'm just uploading a version which also generates g* versions in /usr/bin Feb 17 22:20:56 now to figure out why chsh refuses bash Feb 17 22:23:24 Stskeeps: I read about you playing with g_serial... is the module available somewhere? Feb 17 22:23:32 ah, color ls Feb 17 22:23:38 compile it, it's available in kernel source Feb 17 22:24:19 k Feb 17 22:35:49 I guess we can say goodbye to the public bugzilla for Nokia closed-source stuff. :\ Feb 17 22:36:32 is there a python2.6 package for the n810? Feb 17 22:37:16 GeneralAntilles, everything will be open so no need :D (/me doubts that ;)) Feb 17 22:37:36 VDVsx, since MeeGo isn't tracking Nokia closed-source products. Feb 17 22:37:37 Ugh Feb 17 22:38:04 GeneralAntilles, they have a bugzilla already ? Feb 17 22:38:12 VDVsx, not yet, but will. Feb 17 22:39:42 well, if that happens is a big lost, really hope that others can see that Feb 17 22:40:08 we can create micro communities inside meego :D Feb 17 22:41:37 GeneralAntilles, I'd think maemo bugzilla would remain to deal with nokia-meego specific issues.. Feb 17 22:41:42 solution: stop using nokia closed source stuff Feb 17 22:41:56 ShadowJK, Maemo as a brand is going away. Feb 17 22:42:01 ShadowJK, not sure where that would live. Feb 17 22:42:37 I suspect that reality will be more like meego being an upstream for Nokia, Intel, LG, whoever Feb 17 22:43:58 God damn this is a pain in the ass. Feb 17 22:45:36 GeneralAntilles: what I expected to see from this insane move Feb 17 22:47:31 has nokia cut any osso staff yet? Feb 17 22:48:34 lol Feb 17 22:49:48 Oh, man, this is just golden. http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=532987&postcount=8 Feb 17 22:49:52 I wish johnx were here. Feb 17 22:50:27 in other news, it was just annunced that Ubuntu Linux and Gentoo Linux will combine to form "Genbuntoo" :D Feb 17 22:50:59 did anyone else have the flash light application break on them with the recent update? Feb 17 22:56:34 the original plan for qt was that maemo5 would only have "community support" for qt, and it wouldn't come from nokia until harmattan Feb 17 22:56:37 according to http://www.slideshare.net/qgil/maemo-harmattan-qt-and-more Feb 17 22:57:13 * wiretapped wonders how many other things that were going to be in harmattan will now be rolled into PR1.2 Feb 17 22:58:14 wiretapped: I suspect there aren't many people working on the n900 code anymore Feb 17 22:58:35 kinda seems like maybe the name harmattan got reassigned for marketing purposes? Feb 17 22:59:45 asj: no, i reckon there aren't Feb 17 23:00:29 I just had one of the "linux is fucking awesome"-moments. I just edited my phones /usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols/ keymap with vim over ssh, and when I was done I issued a "setxkbmap" and the changes took effect. Feb 17 23:02:22 yup Feb 17 23:02:23 sometime you need to stop and remind you that you're actually working with a phone, and not a computer Feb 17 23:02:34 yourself Feb 17 23:02:45 no, you're working with a computer Feb 17 23:03:08 "phone" is just an entry in a capabilities list Feb 17 23:04:39 evening Feb 17 23:04:45 it is indeed a computer, but it's hard to forget that the device you're issuing commands to is actually in your front pocket Feb 17 23:04:55 s/hard/easy/ Feb 17 23:04:56 ToiletOil meant: it is indeed a computer, but it's easy to forget that the device you're issuing commands to is actually in your front pocket Feb 17 23:05:10 wow Feb 17 23:05:19 dude, that's the best bot ever Feb 17 23:06:04 jo lardman Feb 17 23:06:29 hi woglinde Feb 17 23:08:26 Stand back!! Infobot knows regular expressions! Feb 17 23:09:13 * ToiletOil <3 infobot Feb 17 23:09:47 ~chase ToiletOil Feb 17 23:09:48 * infobot chases ToiletOil Feb 17 23:16:50 does default maemo kernel have support for Thumb binaries? Feb 17 23:17:18 not thumbee Feb 17 23:17:26 but it can run thumb code Feb 18 00:13:33 ahaha Feb 18 00:13:53 n810 vkb appearing on a sdl app :) Feb 18 00:13:56 priceless :) Feb 18 00:20:21 javis? Feb 18 00:20:32 i'm doing a hildon input method sdl bridge Feb 18 00:21:01 then I'll see if I can fix dosbox Feb 18 00:21:45 hm reminds me of pupnik's closed source keyboardpackage Feb 18 00:22:27 javis how do you solved it? Feb 18 00:22:35 setting the xatoms? Feb 18 00:22:38 woglinde: i'm just doing what Qt does, yes Feb 18 00:23:14 hm I am glad if I could take it over for qtnx Feb 18 00:23:20 but I also hope to get proper international khardware eyboard support in dosbox. Feb 18 00:23:22 or better nxproxy Feb 18 00:23:39 do you have a code pointer? Feb 18 00:23:46 http://qt.gitorious.org/+qt-developers/qt/x11-maemo/blobs/4.6-fremantle/src/gui/inputmethod/qhildoninputcontext_x11.cpp Feb 18 00:24:00 I found it easy to understand. Feb 18 00:24:53 Where is Kathy when you need her. . . . Feb 18 00:24:58 basically it has a set of "commands" you can send to the hildon im window. Feb 18 00:25:28 setting valid input modes (numeric, alpha) (qt sends it after changing widget focus) Feb 18 00:26:06 actually showing the keyboard (with a "reason", like "user tapped a text field") Feb 18 00:26:15 general at sleep Feb 18 00:26:30 javis hms but as I feared Feb 18 00:26:38 I have to forward the wohle stuff Feb 18 00:26:42 this suckz Feb 18 00:27:20 yeah, if you're redirecting X.. Feb 18 00:27:41 * timeless_mbp pokes GeneralAntilles about l10n Feb 18 00:29:40 hm nxproxy is pure c Feb 18 00:29:48 so no qt goddies Feb 18 00:30:05 yes, I'm stripping the Qt stuff from my lib Feb 18 00:30:12 though adding a bit of SDL stuff ;) Feb 18 00:30:34 let me take a look when you are finished Feb 18 00:32:25 but now I am going to sleep Feb 18 00:32:42 good nite Feb 18 00:34:12 nite woglinde Feb 18 00:43:41 to flash n900 i only need working bootloader? Feb 18 00:45:32 jacekowski: in the sense of "no booted system needed" i'd say yes, bootloader is all you need Feb 18 00:45:37 you probably need a usb cable too Feb 18 00:46:14 of course your desktop PC should have a booted up system Feb 18 00:46:18 :-) Feb 18 00:46:29 And a functioning universe. Feb 18 00:46:36 lol Feb 18 00:46:52 at least *one*, yeah Feb 18 00:47:05 you're also gonna need plenty of free electrons Feb 18 00:47:21 a file to actually flash to N900 also helps Feb 18 00:47:34 DocScrutinizer: i'm probably about to brick my n900 but i want to be sure that i would be able to unbrick it Feb 18 00:48:11 jacekowski: i'd probably practice unbricking first, before the actual brick making beings Feb 18 00:48:14 begins Feb 18 00:48:22 heh Feb 18 00:48:28 i can't unbrick not bricked device Feb 18 00:48:35 jacekowski: don't worry. Guys with more knowledge and experience than me said it never happened so far you bricked a maemo-Nxxx device Feb 18 00:49:19 i've got JTAG at work for worst case scenario but i suppose it would be pretty hard to access connector in n900 Feb 18 00:49:48 and even harder to get the needed sw to unbrick via JTAG Feb 18 00:49:54 if you brick it up to the point you need jtag, then it's pretty much bricked. but that happened to few people. Feb 18 00:50:24 * SpeedEvil stares at the array of gold pads on the bottom. Feb 18 00:50:42 jacekowski: i tried forcing a dist-upgrade and it still recovered with a simple flash util Feb 18 00:50:45 SpeedEvil: you removed tha battery??? Feb 18 00:51:05 i will have to make cable for uart port Feb 18 00:51:25 DocScrutinizer: virtually. Actually I'm updating gnu-findutils Feb 18 00:51:29 to get my kernel panics out Feb 18 00:51:53 jacekowski: write a panic-over-sms module Feb 18 00:52:24 kernel-cores over sms? ... 140 characters each :) Feb 18 00:52:32 160 Feb 18 00:52:41 hah .. be happy Feb 18 00:53:00 * DocScrutinizer wonders how hard it could be to redirect console output to the IR-LED, by bitbanging in the end if there's no UART attached to that GPIO Feb 18 00:53:09 im probably using bad googling. but anyone know if maemo has man available? only thread i can find is from 2006. Feb 18 00:53:29 DocScrutinizer: the LED driver chip seems smart enough. Feb 18 00:53:44 i could try to run my kernel on qemu before bricking device Feb 18 00:53:51 DocScrutinizer: the notification/kbd one that is Feb 18 00:54:01 smart for what? Feb 18 00:54:08 so get a fototransistor and make up a adapter cable to rs232 Feb 18 00:54:32 SpeedEvil: i think that IR is connected to uart somehow Feb 18 00:54:41 place the phototransistor directly to the IR apperture Feb 18 00:54:41 SpeedEvil: iirc Feb 18 00:55:07 no need even for a carrier and modulation Feb 18 00:55:41 Or just console over IRDA Feb 18 00:55:44 (one-directional) Feb 18 00:55:45 just bang out the serial bitstream to IR, and recover it in the photosensor Feb 18 00:55:58 I assume the CIR transmitter is really connected to a UART Feb 18 00:57:00 i wasn't paying attention to that part of datasheet Feb 18 00:57:11 but i think it's a uart port with cir functionality Feb 18 00:57:15 and fir functionality Feb 18 00:57:23 jacekowski: by "your own kernel" you mean a non omap-linux one? Feb 18 00:57:41 just kick the CIR/FIR functions Feb 18 00:57:48 javispedro: standard one with my patches Feb 18 00:58:12 jacekowski: ah. I wouldn't worry much then. Feb 18 00:58:19 well unless your patches touch dangerous stuff. Feb 18 00:58:35 since you can even reflash the individual kernel. Feb 18 00:58:43 s/the individual kernel/the kernel only. Feb 18 00:58:45 well, i'm messing with vfs Feb 18 00:58:48 and usb Feb 18 00:59:23 NOLO doesn't need the kernel for flashing (MHO) Feb 18 01:00:05 means NOLO will flash a new kernel even when old one is borked Feb 18 01:00:18 definitely. Feb 18 01:00:37 is it possible to have 2 kernels? Feb 18 01:00:43 or there isn't enough space Feb 18 01:00:46 DocScrutinizer: it's simpler to just set it to IRDA mode. Then you can buy a USB->IRDA cheap thing Feb 18 01:00:47 nope, but you can even boot one without flashing it. Feb 18 01:01:14 the bootloader can boot a kernel through usb -- see flasher's -b option Feb 18 01:01:18 well, i could flash it with almost stock kernel + kexec Feb 18 01:01:35 shiny kexec is shiny. Feb 18 01:01:38 SpeedEvil: if IRDA mode is totally transparent (needs no management from system side) then yes, it's better even Feb 18 01:02:12 01:00 Feb 18 01:02:13 "IRDA mode" what? there's no IrDA. Feb 18 01:02:21 on the n900 that is. Feb 18 01:02:24 time to sleep Feb 18 01:02:26 There is a LED connected to a IRDA capable port Feb 18 01:02:29 probably Feb 18 01:02:35 SpeedEvil: rtfm Feb 18 01:02:36 probably nothing -- it's damn simple. Feb 18 01:02:36 this doesn't mean you can recieve Feb 18 01:02:47 the driver is a lirc one, not a sir one. Feb 18 01:02:48 But you can send. Feb 18 01:02:51 this reminds me Feb 18 01:03:01 does the phone have an ir sensor or not? Feb 18 01:03:04 it does not Feb 18 01:03:13 * javispedro looks up the driver in mxr Feb 18 01:03:28 SpeedEvil: http://focus.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/omap3530.pdf Feb 18 01:03:42 pwnguin: info on this detail tends to change every other week Feb 18 01:04:10 DocScrutinizer: it seems simple enough to open the damn thing up and look Feb 18 01:04:24 Three UARTs (One with Infrared Data Association [IrDA] and Consumer Infrared Feb 18 01:04:25 [CIR] Modes) Feb 18 01:04:32 except i like my device usable =( Feb 18 01:04:49 jacekowski: so it has uarts available Feb 18 01:04:49 even simpler to rtfm Feb 18 01:04:55 So you switch it out of CIR mode Feb 18 01:04:59 jacekowski: but do you know if it's connected there? Feb 18 01:05:02 and into IRDA mode Feb 18 01:05:04 and it works. Feb 18 01:05:10 If it's on the CIR capable port Feb 18 01:05:26 javispedro: it would be stupid to have another chip to do it Feb 18 01:05:35 javispedro: if there is already hardware builtin for it Feb 18 01:05:39 found the driver Feb 18 01:05:42 http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/source/kernel/drivers/input/lirc/lirc_rx51.c Feb 18 01:05:47 jacekowski: correct me if im wrong but thats just the processor no? Feb 18 01:05:55 pwnguin: yes Feb 18 01:06:10 pwnguin: but it pretty much goes straight to LED from there Feb 18 01:06:48 oh no Feb 18 01:07:13 sounds like it it was connected to an omap pwm Feb 18 01:07:26 that's almost like a bitbanging it Feb 18 01:07:51 AIUI there's no demodulating RX chip for IrDA. There allegedly is a dumb IR sensor *not* demodulating the 36KHz signal - or similar madness Feb 18 01:07:51 I was pretty depressed the first time I read it. Feb 18 01:08:04 it makes me wanna kill myself Feb 18 01:08:37 anyways Feb 18 01:08:37 a dumb IR sensor would actually be quite handy for me Feb 18 01:08:40 time to sleep Feb 18 01:08:47 good night Feb 18 01:08:51 ive been thinking about building a lighting detector Feb 18 01:08:54 good nite Feb 18 01:09:06 I have a dumb lirc sensor on my desktop, an a dumb lirc tx on my n900. Feb 18 01:09:08 pwnguin, prox sensor? Feb 18 01:09:13 nite jacekowski Feb 18 01:09:32 GeneralAntilles: donno. i hadn't really explored the onboard hardware angle Feb 18 01:09:43 pwnguin, maybe ambient light, too? Feb 18 01:10:04 GeneralAntilles: prox is too slow I guess Feb 18 01:10:28 GeneralAntilles: ive been pointed at a CHDK script that i havent looked at yet Feb 18 01:10:40 also probably specialized in sending a modulated IR signal and sensing the echo Feb 18 01:11:01 I'm unsure about the API for the CIR side. Feb 18 01:11:05 It could look like that. Feb 18 01:11:09 The CIR uart Feb 18 01:11:09 GeneralAntilles: ambient definitely is too slow Feb 18 01:11:40 * SpeedEvil reads more closely to find what port it's frobbing. Feb 18 01:11:43 SpeedEvil: the user mode api is a char device with some ioctls Feb 18 01:11:50 ah, you saw that already then Feb 18 01:13:05 javispedro: yes - I don't care. Feb 18 01:13:24 javispedro: I am wondering if that's actually driving the CIR hardware. Feb 18 01:13:33 But my internet is being slow, and I'm tired. Feb 18 01:13:38 Or if it's a PWM pin Feb 18 01:13:52 The former - and IRDA (out) is easy - the latter - and it's bitbang time. Feb 18 01:14:16 I believe it is Feb 18 01:14:18 * DocScrutinizer sighs and wonders whom to pester to finally get a NDA to sign, so Nokia could disclose the schematics to him Feb 18 01:14:40 just do it the bunnie way Feb 18 01:14:58 ridiculus MIT stipends and unused acid baths Feb 18 01:15:37 javispedro: which? Feb 18 01:15:41 a pwm pin Feb 18 01:15:59 pwnguin: huh ;-) Feb 18 01:16:07 DocScrutinizer: I can provide the rope, if you can find a tall building to hang them out of by the ankles. Feb 18 01:16:44 * SpeedEvil finds a 34M PDF probably with the answer. Feb 18 01:20:45 crashanddie_: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=44718 Feb 18 01:21:21 matthew-: and you are who in the thread? Feb 18 01:21:34 crashanddie_: the OP Feb 18 01:21:47 matthew-: then you are a troll. Thank you very much. Feb 18 01:22:17 crashanddie_: As I said, dont call a troll someone that doesnt agree with you. Feb 18 01:22:37 I've got my point, that a lot of people sees. If you can't, well then something may be wrong with your eyes. Feb 18 01:22:49 crashanddie_: I bought 14 phones Feb 18 01:22:51 n900 no longer gonna wor? Feb 18 01:22:54 + im a donator to maemo Feb 18 01:24:43 Man, I thought we got a firmware update today.. I guess it was just me then, weird.. Feb 18 01:24:44 lol Feb 18 01:24:51 ;] Feb 18 01:24:55 Yesterday, actually. Feb 18 01:25:05 acidjazz: there still isn't one for the uk Feb 18 01:25:25 * GeneralAntilles wonders what's up with Nokia UK. Feb 18 01:25:42 i was xpasteing talk.maemo Feb 18 01:26:31 xpasteing? Feb 18 01:26:48 crosspasting? Feb 18 01:26:55 extreme pasting? Feb 18 01:29:02 I don't give a shit how many phones you have, and I coulnd't care less about how much you've donated (oh and btw, there are no such things as donations to Maemo) Feb 18 01:29:05 I donate to maemo applications, not the system itself Feb 18 01:29:14 Donating to apps doesn't entitle you to a better treatment Feb 18 01:29:37 crashanddie_, so not worth it. Feb 18 01:29:45 good night.... (nobody watch olympic games?) Feb 18 01:29:55 I'd just have banned him for a history of inappropriate topics. :P Feb 18 01:30:07 * MuJ is Feb 18 01:30:31 what a nice guy Feb 18 01:31:34 lol crosspasting Feb 18 01:31:49 totem http://mafreebox.freebox.fr/freeboxtv/playlist.m3u Feb 18 01:31:54 oups sorry bye Feb 18 01:32:21 heya guys... how risky is flashing the n900? Feb 18 01:33:01 Not very as long as you're charged, and nothing interrupts the flashing. Feb 18 01:34:23 cool Feb 18 01:34:37 what is the worst thing that can happen? and how long does it take? Feb 18 01:35:04 Flashing of the bootloader fails and you either need to send your device back to Nokia for a cold flashing or build yourself a serial cable. Feb 18 01:35:08 About 30 seconds Feb 18 01:35:20 The danger period for the bootloader is a few fractions of a second long. Feb 18 01:36:30 and how likely is that? Feb 18 01:36:32 if you know? Feb 18 01:37:03 and what do you suggest, other than backups... before the flashing Feb 18 01:37:15 sorry for being such a nag :P Feb 18 01:37:36 I've flashed more than a dozen devices hundreds of times. Feb 18 01:37:41 Never once had a fatal failure Feb 18 01:37:46 extremely unlikely to mess up the bootloader unless you're trying to do it intentionally or doing it very wrong Feb 18 01:37:47 and only 1 non-fatal failure Feb 18 01:37:59 What is the name of that site of free audio clips? Feb 18 01:38:32 Even without bootloaders if you flash a device correctly and follow the instructions you'll be alright as long as you don't interrupt the flash, not all devices have bootloaders. Feb 18 01:38:34 instantrimshot.com Feb 18 01:38:48 GeneralAntilles, check out the freesound project Feb 18 01:39:14 T7g, that's the one, thanks. Feb 18 01:46:59 thanks, basically i want to switch to the global version from the uk version Feb 18 01:47:56 is there a howto site? Feb 18 01:48:18 How to what? Feb 18 01:48:20 Flash? Feb 18 01:48:22 ~flashing Feb 18 01:48:23 yeah Feb 18 01:48:23 extra, extra, read all about it, flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware Feb 18 01:48:32 thanks Feb 18 01:50:43 do i need to take out the sim card? Feb 18 01:51:11 Is it listed in the steps? :P Feb 18 01:51:15 no Feb 18 01:57:25 how long do i hve to hold the u key? Feb 18 01:59:38 ? Feb 18 02:00:17 until the sign shows up? Feb 18 02:00:31 please read the wikipage Feb 18 02:03:25 the problem is, it says wait, not for how long, and then my computer loads it as a usb mass storage device, dont know if that's supposed to happen Feb 18 02:07:18 ...? Feb 18 02:07:20 anyone? Feb 18 02:08:33 adalal: I seem to remember when I flashed I noticed a few strange things not mentioned in the wiki. But I managed to flash it quite easily, in the end Feb 18 02:08:44 s don't worry, just try Feb 18 02:09:00 hum .. when i send a dbus request to activate the vibrator it vibrates even when the profile is silent (with disabled vibrator) Feb 18 02:10:27 hmm yes. Silence mode is a little flawed it seems. Also for volume of sound playback Feb 18 02:11:11 so its not my fault Feb 18 02:11:34 or the methods to use audio and vib notifications correctly complient with profiles aren't clearly specified Feb 18 02:11:34 (for the notification led the settings are respected) Feb 18 02:11:56 well i tried the PatternIncomingCall Feb 18 02:12:02 DocScrutinizer: do i have to disable automount feature on ubuntu? Feb 18 02:12:06 or any linux distro? Feb 18 02:12:20 adalal: you started the flasher? Feb 18 02:12:31 not yet Feb 18 02:12:34 adalal: I might have doen a umount Feb 18 02:12:39 i've tried once... Feb 18 02:12:46 adalal: you want to flash or what? Feb 18 02:12:49 didn't work, as in i held the u for over a minute Feb 18 02:12:53 yeah, to the global version Feb 18 02:12:54 don't recall anymore Feb 18 02:12:58 you have to start the flasher first Feb 18 02:13:05 then it waits for the device Feb 18 02:13:08 right, Feb 18 02:13:19 no you key Feb 18 02:13:28 no "u" key .. damn completion Feb 18 02:13:37 oh okay... Feb 18 02:13:44 I've been struggling for 3 days now trying to do only one thing! Given a phone number, I want to fetch the contact name associated with that number! 3 days switching back and forth between osso abook and ebook libraries. Can someone just point me out to the correct steps get a contact from his/her number Feb 18 02:14:04 connect device, start flasher, it says 'waiting for device' .. reboot device Feb 18 02:14:26 tgalal__: I'm interested in this as well Feb 18 02:14:27 cehteh: i start with the n900 turned off right? Feb 18 02:14:34 adalal: or that Feb 18 02:14:49 reboot will do too iirc .. but turned off is a safe bet Feb 18 02:15:14 tgalal__: yeah maemo is really weak at this stuff, global searches'n'stuff Feb 18 02:15:25 right, so i start the flasher, hold 'u' and connect the flasher, and wait? Feb 18 02:15:32 maybe it works somehow but its quite hidden Feb 18 02:16:10 adalal: turn device off, connect it to usb, start flasher, turn device on Feb 18 02:16:15 cehteh, so no one has ever done that before? :D Feb 18 02:16:17 no 'u' key Feb 18 02:16:55 tgalal__: dunno, well should be 'somehow' possible since incoming calls have the number but are stored with their contact Feb 18 02:17:24 i am just generally ranting about lack of some feature i had 15 years ago on my apple newton already Feb 18 02:17:45 cehteh, right Feb 18 02:19:08 cehteh, Newton had the best integrated data on any device I've ever used. Feb 18 02:19:55 i never used some other pda .. but i definately miss the global search, the clipboard, and the gestures Feb 18 02:20:19 But, truth be told, Maemo isn't trying to be that. Feb 18 02:20:21 Newton was a true PDA Feb 18 02:20:32 Maemo is a media and internet platform. Feb 18 02:20:33 actually i didnt used my newton for 10 years, but when i unboxed my n900 i still tried to use some newton gestured just i was still used to them Feb 18 02:20:56 tagalal:how much did you investigate the EBookQuery thing? I should think that'd be it... Feb 18 02:21:02 hey the newton clipboard would be nice for any system .. even mouse based laptop Feb 18 02:22:06 If only iPad had gone a Newton direction. Feb 18 02:22:11 GeneralAntilles: and really .. its a shame that 15 years later we still dont have any competive Feb 18 02:22:22 Too bad Jobs hates Newton so much. Feb 18 02:22:39 well lesson learned, never buy a closed product Feb 18 02:22:46 Nah, Newton failed because of the Simpson's joke: "Eat up martin" Feb 18 02:23:13 and well i dunno if it was jobs or the money from microsoft Feb 18 02:23:20 cehteh, I think for myself, though, as I move away from academia, the N900 becomes a much more useful devices for me than the Newton. Feb 18 02:24:08 The 100-series really damaged the platform's perception Feb 18 02:24:09 GeneralAntilles: sure, but hey the features i noted above would make it much more useful over that Feb 18 02:24:17 and even though the 2000-series completely blew it out of the water it never recovered. Feb 18 02:24:23 cehteh, indeed. Feb 18 02:24:45 well i go on hacking Feb 18 02:25:34 lets see to get the xchat blinkenlights working .. with vibrator, banner and dialog support ... Feb 18 02:29:58 I got vib on xchat. What's banner and dialog? Feb 18 02:30:47 this small yellow banners which vanish by themself after some time Feb 18 02:30:50 libnotify Feb 18 02:31:03 It's working in whatever build I'm using Feb 18 02:31:04 Sort of Feb 18 02:31:04 and dialog is the big banner in the middle of the screen which requires a tap Feb 18 02:31:17 That's Hildon Note Feb 18 02:31:22 yeah maybe Feb 18 02:31:51 cehteh: both a big annoyance for xchat Feb 18 02:32:02 technically "SystemNoteDialog" and "SystemNoteInfoprint" Feb 18 02:32:07 what? Feb 18 02:32:21 yay, finally did it Feb 18 02:32:22 :P Feb 18 02:32:39 I'm still a bit new to the debian packaging, how do I get locate (or slocate, or mlocate) working? installing locate complains that I haven't got the right findutils, installing findutils-gnu didn't seem to help. Do I need to adjust something somewhere? Feb 18 02:32:49 i make it configureable, dialogs and notes disabled by default Feb 18 02:33:19 eh and vibrator disabled too because if the broken profiles Feb 18 02:34:22 I'm fine with my vib support for now Feb 18 02:35:11 DocScrutinizer: your hacked script? Feb 18 02:35:42 i am working on an proper plugin .. including deactivating vibrator and plugin when activated Feb 18 02:36:29 i'm disapointed http://notionink.in/ didn't wait for MeeGo and chose Android Feb 18 02:37:14 DocScrutinizer: do you know if PatternIncomingMessage takes up resources if not canceled? Feb 18 02:38:02 * SpeedEvil ponders. Feb 18 02:38:37 I think I'd like at least blinking support, vibrator, and speak message - for selected users/channels Feb 18 02:38:43 cehteh: patternincommingmsg should terminate (for vib) Feb 18 02:39:08 it terminates the vib .. but as far i see all other things stack Feb 18 02:39:22 or increment a refcounter Feb 18 02:39:24 err huh? Feb 18 02:39:44 leds, dialogs etc .. Feb 18 02:40:24 led *can* terminate Feb 18 02:40:29 well not sure how it works in detail , lemme test Feb 18 02:40:52 depends on actual pattern you define in mce.ini Feb 18 02:42:01 File manager does not have a "share" or "send to bluetooth" button: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5300 -- this bugs is marked as resolved two months ago, but I got PR 1.1.1 and my file manager still does not have the option to share files. What am I doing wrong? Feb 18 02:42:02 Bug 5300: Support sending files via Bluetooth in file manager Feb 18 02:42:27 DocScrutinizer: ok only priorties matter Feb 18 02:42:36 they dont stack Feb 18 02:42:48 I really wish they did. Feb 18 02:42:53 So it could just mix colors. Feb 18 02:43:34 cehteh: not really. If you want a self terminating LED pattern you need to end the pattern with proper end-cmd rather than a jump-to-start Feb 18 02:44:34 DocScrutinizer: i am not talking about the pattern programming but how mce handles them Feb 18 02:44:41 GeneralAntilles: mixing colors isn't exactly the proper way to have concurrent signals on one 3color LED Feb 18 02:45:20 DocScrutinizer, I just want them to stack until it's just solid white. :P Feb 18 02:45:38 DocScrutinizer: if you activate pattern-call and pattern-im, then pattern-call takes precedence, but after pattern-call gets deactivated it continues the pattern-im Feb 18 02:45:40 playing different pattern one after the other might be a better way Feb 18 02:45:52 Potential battery eater, though. Feb 18 02:46:15 so mce has some bookeping/stacking .. but only an activation flag per pattern Feb 18 02:46:37 cehteh: yes... so? Feb 18 02:46:51 GeneralAntilles: the leds dont eat much battery, they have their own controler, no cpu involved Feb 18 02:47:04 hey all Feb 18 02:47:11 no one knows that? Feb 18 02:47:42 DocScrutinizer: i was wondering if they actually stack as in reference counters activate the 'pattern-im' twice requires deactivating it twice and so on... and same for vibrator Feb 18 02:47:47 but seems not to be the case Feb 18 02:47:48 ptl: I don't think FM is capable of sharing files via BT Feb 18 02:48:20 take a look at petrovitch Feb 18 02:50:00 cehteh: vibrator doesn't usually need deactivation as it's a self-terminated pattern Feb 18 02:50:12 yeah Feb 18 02:50:12 DocScrutinizer: ok... is there any third-party that does? Feb 18 02:50:26 (well is the Call pattern self terminating? .. trying) Feb 18 02:50:33 for LED i'd think you need to deactivate each activation Feb 18 02:50:36 ptl: petrovitch Feb 18 02:50:48 ptl: petrovitch Feb 18 02:50:54 cehteh: I'll try it, thanks Feb 18 02:51:31 DocScrutinizer: no you dont need Feb 18 02:51:43 hmm, ok Feb 18 02:51:55 led_activate (bus, "PatternCommunicationIM"); Feb 18 02:51:55 led_activate (bus, "PatternCommunicationIM"); Feb 18 02:51:55 usleep(10000000); Feb 18 02:51:55 led_deactivate (bus, "PatternCommunicationIM"); Feb 18 02:52:01 ... turns it off Feb 18 02:52:28 its only on/off and the priority, no refcounter/stacking Feb 18 02:52:49 might still be a per-client scheme Feb 18 02:53:08 surprises me a bit, but well its more graceful on programming errors Feb 18 02:54:20 mhm dunno, i doubt it Feb 18 02:54:26 (per-client) Feb 18 02:54:43 well i dont care, seems useable as is to me, except the strange vibrator thing Feb 18 02:56:15 strange vib thing? Feb 18 02:58:10 no strangeness whatsoever found on vib here Feb 18 02:59:16 In the documentation of porting application from qt4 to qt5-maemo, they refer to "Modest email application". Is the source code of this application available? Feb 18 02:59:50 try apt-get source? Feb 18 02:59:55 Is the name of the application really Modest? **** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Feb 18 02:59:57 2010