**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Mar 01 02:59:57 2010 Mar 01 03:00:54 mhm yes the commit interval fixes it .. starts slower but sustains the speed Mar 01 03:01:30 hey ext4 was much faster than ext3 Mar 01 03:02:04 hmm, obviously a tradeoff between fast bursts and somewhat lower but constant sustainable performance Mar 01 03:03:02 well the main idea was to wear (and fragment) the mmc less .. Mar 01 03:04:01 i once made a CF card based system with a friend where we tuned laptop mode up to 1 week .. means it only written to flash when something wanted to sync or things got really tight Mar 01 03:04:06 err, with ext4? Mar 01 03:04:56 nah that was long ago ext2 or ext3 Mar 01 03:05:14 (the main idea) Mar 01 03:05:23 with ext4 you have to increase the commit interval as well .. and you have to know the consequences :) Mar 01 03:06:48 $ du -s /media/mmc1/Music MyDocs/Music Mar 01 03:06:48 6599552 /media/mmc1/Music Mar 01 03:06:48 6589060 MyDocs/Music Mar 01 03:06:57 hey look ext3 needs little more space Mar 01 03:07:18 still wondering about the case with the map tiles Mar 01 03:08:36 * DocScrutinizer ponders kooking a sync to backlid (aka hotswap detector) switch. Being a battery powered device there's really few that can make it cease operation inadvertedly Mar 01 03:10:07 * cehteh looks now where this mount stuff hides Mar 01 03:15:03 under the bed. it's afraid of monsters Mar 01 03:15:55 cehteh: you know, if you can detect the oonly possible way to kill the system (bat removal) in advance, you can sync and set commit interval to 50ms. When backlid in place you can go back to hours of commit time Mar 01 03:17:08 well .. you remove the bat for a reset when the system/kernel is stuck anyways Mar 01 03:17:19 at least i do Mar 01 03:17:30 so prolly the sync wont find its way Mar 01 03:18:19 then it's pointless anyway. But for normal operation you don't need to bother about sudden power failure Mar 01 03:18:44 much less than even for a server without UPS Mar 01 03:20:28 cehteh: u symlinked /media/mmc1/Music to MyDocs/Music ? Mar 01 03:20:38 if you would be a nokia engineer you would earn some good karma for implementing this .. if you are a community member who does this only on his own device and otherwise knows the results of a battery removal this would mean its pointless too Mar 01 03:20:52 boolean: no copied Mar 01 03:21:00 want to reformat the uSD Mar 01 03:21:24 ahh .. Mar 01 03:21:50 Temporary failure resolving 'repository.maemo.org' Mar 01 03:21:59 apt-get install host Mar 01 03:22:07 ... thinkin ... damnit :P Mar 01 03:22:39 cehteh: (pointless) agree :-D Mar 01 03:23:01 cehteh: I'm not a *Nokia* engineer (yet?) Mar 01 03:23:38 i'd really wish the kernel and base system guys would show up here sometimes Mar 01 03:23:47 cehteh: nevertheless you spotted my profession quite to the point Mar 01 03:25:05 mhm time for reboot Mar 01 03:25:25 or .. lets restart the vpn ... Mar 01 03:27:22 anyone know best media manager to use for tagging music and art, i've tried a couple but it just ignores my hours of effort i've put and shows like before, it can be pc or n900 i just need something Mar 01 03:28:00 i use amarok on pc Mar 01 03:28:18 and easytag to fill tags Mar 01 03:29:18 is easytag pc too? Mar 01 03:31:28 yea Mar 01 03:31:42 amarok also fills/edits tags Mar 01 03:32:00 repository.maemo.org.edgesuite.net is an alias for a515.g.akamai.net. Mar 01 03:32:05 .. i suspected it Mar 01 03:32:30 thanks tank-man i'll give them a try Mar 01 03:33:53 cehteh: yep. that's no secret though Mar 01 03:34:03 sure Mar 01 03:34:50 just wondering why its sometimes so unreliable .. akamai ought to be reliable Mar 01 03:35:45 duh, yeah Mar 01 03:36:02 is auto builder down? Mar 01 03:36:43 heh ... seems more than that is down Mar 01 03:36:57 and i forgotten to install sshfs Mar 01 03:37:06 downforeveryoneorjustforme Mar 01 03:37:47 doc how would you check to see if autobuilder was donw on that site its not a website Mar 01 03:38:11 hmm yes Mar 01 03:38:13 An error occurred while processing your request. Mar 01 03:38:13 Reference #97.5dee9c3e.1267414685.64f1f45f Mar 01 03:38:18 .. thanks :) Mar 01 03:38:24 lol Mar 01 03:38:32 http://repository.maemo.org/extras/pool/fremantle Mar 01 03:39:26 GeneralAntilles: ping Mar 01 03:40:32 81B/s .. yay i get some bytes :) Mar 01 03:41:28 GeneralAntilles: ping me ASAP, only 2h20 left before next issue goes live Mar 01 03:42:54 hey guys, anyone tried running crawl on n900? Mar 01 03:43:00 it says the terminal isnt large enough Mar 01 03:43:09 any way to increase the cols/lines Mar 01 03:43:34 tmo down Mar 01 03:44:35 or maybe not Mar 01 03:44:50 tmo is up for me Mar 01 03:44:50 :-S Mar 01 03:45:08 but i want the repos! Mar 01 03:47:00 use jebba's mirror? Mar 01 03:47:29 reduce the font size, dracflamloc ? Mar 01 03:47:35 use the zoom/volume buttons Mar 01 03:47:53 or use the terminal app's menu Mar 01 03:49:05 time. keeps flowing like a river.... Mar 01 03:51:41 hah Mar 01 03:51:43 thx Mar 01 03:51:49 * dracflamloc smacks self Mar 01 03:52:53 DocScrutinizer: take a look at etc/rc1.d/K30ke-recv & friends .. dsme handles the mounting Mar 01 03:54:03 cehteh: errhem, let's look at that Mar 01 03:54:15 etc/init.d/ke-recv actuall Mar 01 03:54:31 nothing to see here, move along Mar 01 03:56:30 I love it when admins put files in your home directory, that you'll need to execute specific scripts Mar 01 03:56:50 but they only test with their own credentials, and gently forget to give you rights to access the files :) Mar 01 03:57:39 cat: ~/.required-file: Permission denied Mar 01 03:57:51 woohoo \o/ Mar 01 04:03:22 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=38574 Mar 01 04:03:32 bah Mar 01 04:04:03 crashanddie: LOL Mar 01 04:05:08 crashanddie: is it root:users 710 maybe? Mar 01 04:05:36 DocScrutinizer: nha, username:users 700 Mar 01 04:05:53 710 I would've been able to read it Mar 01 04:07:06 exactly .. message "Speicherkarte beschädigt" ... pff Mar 01 04:07:24 OS defect i'd say Mar 01 04:09:37 i wonder if the ke-recv does anything else important except usb connection detection and backlid .. lets see what happens when i stop it Mar 01 04:13:19 cehteh: isn't it just saying "memory card damaged" ? Mar 01 04:13:33 cehteh: format and go? Mar 01 04:13:47 i formatted it to ext3 and be happy Mar 01 04:14:10 so where exactly does it give this error? Mar 01 04:14:41 prolly at boot (didnt tried) and when you remove and reapply the backlid Mar 01 04:14:48 as yellow banner Mar 01 04:15:07 i stopped this nagging daemon now .. lets see Mar 01 04:15:13 it's hardly a lid -- more like a cover Mar 01 04:16:22 ok .. i discoverd a daemon i dont need :P Mar 01 04:21:12 Are there any text editors on N900 or in the extras that can open files outside of MyDocs? Mar 01 04:21:49 vi Mar 01 04:21:54 from terminal and as root you can access anything Mar 01 04:22:00 i have nano and emacs installed Mar 01 04:22:20 cehteh: Installed from where? Mar 01 04:22:43 emacs from external .. and nano is in some repo .. devel perhaps Mar 01 04:23:12 http://sumoudou.org/%E7%9B8%E6%922%E5%A4%96%EFC%9AGNU%20Emacs%20for%20Nokia%20N900.html Mar 01 04:23:18 arrgs xchat... Mar 01 04:23:26 Also, does anyone know why /var/lib/gconf and all its contents are world-readable and writable? Mar 01 04:23:29 well google for n900 emacs Mar 01 04:23:45 who cares .. this is a single user device Mar 01 04:24:07 cehteh: and that is why Maemo fails Mar 01 04:24:20 well .. Mar 01 04:24:39 there are so much other things i would have to fixed first Mar 01 04:24:48 bad logic :D Mar 01 04:25:05 That is true, but the problem is that if attackers can exploit a flaw in a program that runs as any user whatsoever, they can mess with the configuration however they want. Mar 01 04:25:26 helooooo Mar 01 04:25:27 Pavel++ Mar 01 04:25:33 just type "sudo gainroot" Mar 01 04:25:38 and mess with any configuration you want Mar 01 04:25:46 or "root" Mar 01 04:26:08 hell, it takes under 20s to pick up your phone, open the terminal and type rm -fr / Mar 01 04:26:11 i love that Mar 01 04:26:20 ctrl+shift+x ftw Mar 01 04:26:21 crashanddie: that won't do much damage Mar 01 04:26:50 luke-jr: it'll kill your bootloader for one Mar 01 04:26:59 An exploit can often read or overwrite a file without being able to execute arbitrary code. Mar 01 04:27:36 does anyone know if there are any table stands I can buy for my N900 if I want to use it as a camera? Mar 01 04:27:38 either stop pasting wikipedia, or say things that are related to the conversation, thanks Mar 01 04:28:00 oh great, my n900 is sometimes not recognizing charger now :) Mar 01 04:28:01 crashanddie: why would it? Mar 01 04:28:18 And the odd thing is, gconfd-2 actually runs as root, so there is no need for the directory to be accessible to anyone else. Mar 01 04:28:23 luke-jr: ? Mar 01 04:28:31 crashanddie: yes exactly .. but to protect it against such stuff it needs more Mar 01 04:28:34 crashanddie: non-root can't kill the bootloader Mar 01 04:28:49 i dont care if somone deletes the system stuff on my phone because it can be reinstalled Mar 01 04:28:52 crashanddie: and that's assuming BusyBox rm is less sane than GNU rm and actually accepts / as a target Mar 01 04:28:54 luke-jr: did you miss my point about sudo gainroot? Mar 01 04:29:01 but my personal data will be always accessible to 'user' Mar 01 04:29:09 crashanddie: that adds up to over 20s Mar 01 04:29:15 luke-jr: GNU rm takes /* as a parameter, woopdidoo Mar 01 04:29:25 luke-jr: want to do a typing contest ;)? Mar 01 04:29:35 crashanddie: yeah. I'd rm a file named '*' in / Mar 01 04:29:37 cehteh: ""FAT32, the data took 3.1GB. On ext2, it took 2.5GB"" http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=425224&postcount=20 Mar 01 04:30:11 luke-jr: I suggest you try it, you'd be surprised Mar 01 04:30:34 crashanddie: if 'rm /*' does anything else, then it is the exact same thing as 'rm /bin /boot /dev /etc /home /lib /media /mnt /opt /proc /root /sbin /sys /tmp /usr /var' Mar 01 04:30:36 DocScrutinizer: i am finished, all ext3 now .. doing backup and then kick out this ke-recv daemon (update-rc.d .. remove) Mar 01 04:30:50 crashanddie: why would someone special-case the latter? :) Mar 01 04:31:39 I suppose it might be sane to refuse to rm anything if any target contains a procfs Mar 01 04:31:41 crashanddie: a fingerprint reader would be nice on a phone, not perfectly secure but you are mostly aware when somone gained access, either by missing a finger or ther brutality Mar 01 04:32:08 cehteh: fingerprint readers are trivial to fool Mar 01 04:32:10 i dont like typing passwords in public places that can be easily spied Mar 01 04:32:12 cehteh: biometrics is inherently broken by design Mar 01 04:32:27 nah .. they have some use ... but are overrated Mar 01 04:32:41 cehteh: find a better method. Mar 01 04:32:46 such as the webcam Mar 01 04:32:54 as long you are in control AND you are aware that this is not a perfect method its ok Mar 01 04:33:06 cehteh: then use secure tokens -- one piece of information you know, and one piece of information you have. If either goes missing, no problem. Mar 01 04:33:41 for example i use the fingerprint reader on my lattop to unlock 'sudo' ... since i often demo things to people and dont want to enter passwords in front of their eyes Mar 01 04:33:47 if both go missing, you do have a problem -- but then again the process would be to kill the credential as soon as one goes missing Mar 01 04:34:40 cehteh: which means that just by taking your glass, dusting off your laptop or area around the fingerprint scanner I can get access to sudo Mar 01 04:34:42 cehteh: also, I bet the N900 has a mic Mar 01 04:34:55 for a device like the n900 a fingerprint reader would imo already being an advantage over touchscreen the passcode Mar 01 04:35:02 public information should not be for authentication Mar 01 04:35:22 cehteh: it may be your opinion, but you'd be wrong Mar 01 04:35:33 crashanddie: easier than that, IIRC Mar 01 04:35:37 crashanddie: there are different demands for authentication Mar 01 04:35:40 crashanddie: just put jello over your finger and press :) Mar 01 04:36:12 cehteh: use voice or facial recognition Mar 01 04:36:24 cehteh: no, there's not. We need to stop thinking of biometrics as a form of authentication, no matter how strong or weak your needs are Mar 01 04:36:24 entering a password is easier spyable even from distance with a hd cam than getting access to the hardware and find and copy a usable fingerprint .. at least thats the case for my laptop Mar 01 04:36:48 that includes fingerprints, iris, voice, behavioural, dna, etc Mar 01 04:36:55 I don't like the single user philosophy of Maemo. Even if the device is only supposed to be used by a single person (why is that, btw), it would make sense to use a sane configuration. Mar 01 04:36:57 cehteh: you don't even need a fingerprint Mar 01 04:37:04 voice or facial is as strong as fingerprints or maybe less .. neither is perfect Mar 01 04:37:29 cehteh: far stronger Mar 01 04:37:44 luke-jr: not really Mar 01 04:37:46 crashanddie: i agree when it comes to authentication for very important or public things .. like passports, banking and so on Mar 01 04:37:55 god damn it Mar 01 04:37:59 cehteh: read what the fuck I'm saying Mar 01 04:38:06 hey come on... Go write an EEG PAM-module instead of complaining on irc :) Mar 01 04:38:13 EEG is very secure. :) Mar 01 04:38:35 yeah .. this laptop is *my* device .. i dont care about what you think how i should protect MY device Mar 01 04:38:40 jo-erlend: I find myself increasingly agreeing with you... Mar 01 04:38:45 jo-erlend: not really Mar 01 04:38:58 its my data, my responsibility .. Mar 01 04:39:07 cehteh: *no* biometrics should be used for any kind of authentication. Whether it's your granny's vista computer, your laptop, or FBI underwear. Use it for identification -- sure. Mar 01 04:39:25 if you would demand me to use my fingerprint for anything else i would reject Mar 01 04:39:34 luke-jr, not really? Elaborate please. Mar 01 04:39:38 crashanddie: don't use it for ID either Mar 01 04:39:48 luke-jr: it's fine for ID Mar 01 04:40:13 jo-erlend: crashanddie: you assume an identity is tied to a human person Mar 01 04:40:15 crashanddie: sorry you are wrong .. you have absolutely no reason and right to give me advice for my personal things there Mar 01 04:40:40 luke-jr, are you trying to tell me that my mind doesn't belong to my person? Mar 01 04:40:49 and in lack of better alternatives (in usability) i feel comfortable with it Mar 01 04:41:06 jo-erlend: I'm trying to say that users do not always tie directly to humans :P Mar 01 04:41:17 jo-erlend: Regarding Maemo design decisions, that is. Mar 01 04:41:20 cehteh: are you a security expert? Mar 01 04:41:29 Pavel, I got that. Mar 01 04:41:49 crashanddie: other thnigs on my laptop like the harddisk encryption dont use fingerprints Mar 01 04:42:00 luke-jr, then you're saying that EEG shouldn't be used to identify a non-human user? :) Mar 01 04:42:13 crashanddie: i dont need to be a security expert for my personal responsibilities Mar 01 04:42:19 jo-erlend: Other things, I'd have to think about. Mar 01 04:42:28 if i decide to leave my house open its my decision Mar 01 04:42:41 thats completely unrelated to security Mar 01 04:42:41 jo-erlend: I'm saying that human entities should be able to get a new identity on demand. :) Mar 01 04:42:46 cehteh: I'm talking about you you self-omnibulated goon Mar 01 04:42:56 its my personal freedom how i manage my personal space Mar 01 04:43:07 luke-jr, really? Isn't that what we call being schizofrenic? :) Mar 01 04:43:14 cehteh: I'm talking on a general level, "it is wrong for the industry, TV and movies to believe that biometrics are any good" Mar 01 04:43:20 i dont say you must use fingerprints to authenticate yourself Mar 01 04:43:30 jo-erlend: more like multiple personality disorder, but that's at a different level of abstraction :) Mar 01 04:43:36 crashanddie: i quite much agree with that Mar 01 04:43:55 jo-erlend: think anonymity Mar 01 04:43:57 luke-jr, why would you like to become a different human being in order to use your phone? Mar 01 04:44:10 jo-erlend: I wasn't specifically referring to phone. Mar 01 04:44:17 cehteh: that was my only point, sorry if I didn't shoot it across more clearly Mar 01 04:44:21 if people dont have control about how they manage their own security and are forced to things which might be non optional then its bad Mar 01 04:44:55 but look at the n900 .. how do you authenticate to the device currently Mar 01 04:45:05 you don't? Mar 01 04:45:05 luke-jr, anonymity? Why would you want that? Good encryption makes sure nobody can get to your files and since your brain patterns would change if you were forced, using EEG would protect you from that as well. :) Mar 01 04:45:21 I mean, whether it's an N900 or another phone (except for blackberries), there's hardly authentication required Mar 01 04:45:36 jo-erlend: only temporarily Mar 01 04:45:45 crashanddie, how is that? Mar 01 04:45:58 jo-erlend: only for a limited subset of 'forced' Mar 01 04:46:03 jo-erlend: the whole point about encryption is that you're putting a temporary lock on it. You know that the lock will be broken in due time, however accept the risks Mar 01 04:46:03 why except blackberries .. i do the same with my n900 what others to with their blackberries Mar 01 04:46:19 cehteh: nha, blackberries have better security than the N900 Mar 01 04:46:25 crashanddie, if someone puts a gun to your head and sais: «Calm down and think happy thoughts!»... Would you be able to? Mar 01 04:46:33 i am considering encryption for the data and some strong authentication .. but i didnt found a good way yet Mar 01 04:46:37 jo-erlend: I don't see the connection Mar 01 04:47:10 cehteh: I'm working on SA Mar 01 04:47:11 crashanddie, right. You should try to be more spesific. Mar 01 04:47:22 jo-erlend: wtf? Mar 01 04:47:36 i should encrypt old hard drives and send them to random .uk agencies Mar 01 04:47:41 crashanddie: in what way? Mar 01 04:47:42 jo-erlend: you're the one talking about putting a gun to my head... I was just commenting on the fact that encryption is inherently a time-based lock Mar 01 04:47:43 crashanddie, I thought you were talking about the identification, not the encryption. Mar 01 04:48:06 jo-erlend: "force" includes trickery Mar 01 04:48:17 luke-jr, pardon? Mar 01 04:48:37 cehteh: providing a security hardware chip to the N900 Mar 01 04:49:02 jo-erlend: you can be tricked into decrypting data while someone is monitoring, in theory :) Mar 01 04:49:08 huh? tpm like? Mar 01 04:49:17 cehteh: something like that Mar 01 04:49:28 luke-jr, of course. In theory, I could become an astronaut and go live on mars... Mar 01 04:49:33 well the problem is still usability Mar 01 04:49:51 jo-erlend: again, it really depends what you're trying to protect. If the thing is so important that people would be willing to pull out a gun, and even go over the murder-line just to get to the data, you should've have been relying just on encryption Mar 01 04:50:04 shouldn't Mar 01 04:50:07 luke-jr, your operating system shouldn't deny you the freedom to get fooled. Mar 01 04:50:37 jo-erlend: just saying... you're not immune to ALL force Mar 01 04:51:03 luke-jr, still, it's far more secure than using a fingerprint. :) Mar 01 04:51:29 Actually, designing a system as explicitly single-user does confer some advantages, if you take advantage of it. You can, for example, get many of the benefits of SELinux without much of the complexity. Mar 01 04:51:36 crashanddie: at best such a chip can authenticate the device and provide key material for content on it .. but the user interface is the culprit .. how do you authenticate againt the device in a secure way in public places .. Mar 01 04:51:51 jo-erlend: just makes the criminals focus on social engineering Mar 01 04:51:55 which is the worst kind Mar 01 04:52:17 and how do you ensure that this authentication just last as long you are using the device for this task Mar 01 04:52:20 cehteh: you should probably read on about two-factor authentication Mar 01 04:52:29 luke-jr, social engineering is much more expensive to buy though. Mar 01 04:52:42 i do that with my laptop .. but its inconvinient for a phone like device Mar 01 04:52:51 cehteh: no it isn't Mar 01 04:53:04 to be seen Mar 01 04:53:18 I guess you'll have to wait and see :) Mar 01 04:53:30 So, if, say, gconfd gets its own user, as does the web browser, (using suid) one could try to minimize the consequences of applications being compromised. Mar 01 04:54:19 crashanddie: do you have a non-spyable way to enter some knowledge/key into the device? Mar 01 04:54:33 * Pavel has half a mind to chmod -R o-x /var/lib/gconf to see what happens, since gconfd-2 runs as root, anyway. Mar 01 04:54:36 why is it so natural to assume that an N900 will only be used by one person? Mar 01 04:54:43 cehteh: partially :) Mar 01 04:54:58 for my laptop i dont need to authenticate that often, i can just hide and enter a passphrase Mar 01 04:54:59 cehteh: what if I told you that the information you enter on the device isn't relevant to the attack? Mar 01 04:55:01 for every effort in "securing" the system there is a way to get around it... and it invariably adds pain for the user Mar 01 04:55:04 (invariably) Mar 01 04:55:08 seems like a perfect multi-user tool to me. Mar 01 04:55:12 but for a phone i consider this highly inconvinient Mar 01 04:55:32 raster: yes, but the gain in pain doesn't increase as the gain in security. So for a little extra pain, you get a lot more security Mar 01 04:55:42 cehteh: stop thinking like a laptop user :) Mar 01 04:55:45 well in some way it will be relevant even if its onle otp Mar 01 04:55:54 crashanddie: invariably most people are adverse to ANY pain Mar 01 04:55:58 yeah .. i wait and see Mar 01 04:55:59 jo-erlend: I agree in principle. In practice, I can accept that limitation. Mar 01 04:56:09 Pavel, why? Mar 01 04:56:09 cehteh: nothing to do with OTP in this case Mar 01 04:56:19 otp was just an example Mar 01 04:56:33 so any move that doesnt decrease painf rom where it is now is a bad move (ie its very unpopular and will have people just run screaming from your platform/app/device) Mar 01 04:56:34 jo-erlend: Because it does need to function as a cell phone too... Mar 01 04:56:46 Pavel, and..? Mar 01 04:56:52 as long as you do it "just for me" - well you gave yourself that pain Mar 01 04:57:04 jo-erlend: And the assumption may make some tasks easier. Mar 01 04:57:55 like being the IT-administrator of the company? Mar 01 04:57:58 jo-erlend: That said, I would love to see all of a user's configuration being stored in the home directory. Mar 01 04:58:04 jo-erlend: No idea. Mar 01 04:59:13 raster: there are a number of use-cases where we remove an unnecessary pain, make it more convenient for the user, and provide much better security Mar 01 04:59:33 Pavel, for laptops and desktops, I've always felt it necessary to have one or more admin users, and then add unprivileged users to actually do stuff. If I had a company with a few hundred N900s, I think I'd prefer it if each user had his own user name, instead of sharing. Mar 01 04:59:36 .. lets see :) Mar 01 05:00:07 * DocScrutinizer points to a modified form of captchas, like e.g 500 pictures with people known and unknown, and you tap the known ones Mar 01 05:00:25 eacht time you use another picture Mar 01 05:00:29 raster: on a normal desktop/laptop for example, using SSO which ties in to smartcard authentication can provide *huge* benefits. The passwords are dynamically managed and stored in a central repository, after being encrypted by the user credentials on the smartcard. The user doesn't even know what the credentials are (for Oracle, Outlook, etc) Mar 01 05:00:44 but of course, from Nokias perspective, that just means that people should not ever share their computers, but the company should buy one for all personell who'd ever need to use one. Mar 01 05:00:59 DocScrutinizer: yeah there are some of this things .. show pets .. or whatever Mar 01 05:00:59 jo-erlend: I agree. And, indeed, although Nokia calls it a "tablet", they still think of it as a cell phone. Mar 01 05:01:04 raster: if the user doesn't authenticate using his smartcard, he doesn't have access to his passwords -- neither do any attackers Mar 01 05:01:37 raster: instead of having to manage, change, remember a dozen passwords (which usually are the same, or {basePassword}{month} Mar 01 05:01:40 jo-erlend: One can imagine a "wireless tablet pool" the way a company might have a "laptop pool" for off-site tasks. Mar 01 05:01:44 i still dunno if that scales and wont be exploitable Mar 01 05:02:00 or rather i am quite sure it fails on that when it gets serious Mar 01 05:02:04 Pavel, right. Mar 01 05:02:09 cehteh: are you talking about my security or Pavel's? Mar 01 05:02:21 about DocScrutinizer' comment Mar 01 05:02:29 k Mar 01 05:02:51 cehteh: if you lock on first fail, it's quite reliable Mar 01 05:03:31 raster: finally, the direct benefit is that there is only one single PIN to manage from a user's perspective, and it doesn't even need to be changed, just needs to have a specific complexity and then it can remain the same for the lifetime of the card (typically 2 to 5 years) Mar 01 05:03:42 yes but setting this up requires some pain .. the user has to supply a dozen or more photos of his family, pets, friends or whatever to a new device Mar 01 05:03:51 crashanddie: still provides you a single point of failure - compromise the uzsers master passowrd + get card and presto. all passowrds compromised Mar 01 05:04:13 raster: it's not a *single* point of failure Mar 01 05:04:19 and some things are guessable .. not for a accidental finder of the device but for a attacker targeting you Mar 01 05:04:19 raster: you need the card AND the code Mar 01 05:04:50 Pavel, especially with new mobile broadband connections. You could use some centralized storage of users and data so that all users really could pick up an available N900 and use it as if it were a private one. Mar 01 05:04:54 for my laptop i use a usb stick with a key on it and passphrase .. Mar 01 05:05:14 bbl Mar 01 05:05:16 plus, the key on the usb stick is regenerated on each login .. so copies will be invalidated Mar 01 05:05:19 raster: if you go to work and left your card at home, the good procedure that most of our customers implement is to immediately suspend that card, and issue a temporary card for that user -- once the user comes back with his real card, the card is unsuspended and the temporary card is recycled Mar 01 05:05:23 jo-erlend: Well, Nokia missed an opportunity, then. Mar 01 05:05:31 raster: if however the user loses his card, a simple phone call and all the credentials are frozen Mar 01 05:05:37 cehteh: yes, but the simpler it looks, the easier any atacker will fail on a first easyminded try. Then device locks, and you need a realpassword to unlock Mar 01 05:06:03 DocScrutinizer: yes Mar 01 05:06:11 crashanddie: getting the card is easy - its physical. steal it. Mar 01 05:06:22 might be useful to some extent Mar 01 05:06:26 raster: where do you live? Mar 01 05:06:30 getting the code - simply video tape it being entered, watch it, or otherwise extort it out of a user Mar 01 05:06:43 as users invariably forget passwords and write them on yellow stick-notes Mar 01 05:06:43 :) Mar 01 05:06:57 raster: only if they have to manage tons of different passwords Mar 01 05:07:00 DocScrutinizer: the other question is how/when to unlock the device .. because you dont want constantly tapping some secrets in Mar 01 05:07:05 does ti matter where i live? :) Mar 01 05:07:08 raster: if it's something you type every single time you unlock your workstation, you tend to remember it Mar 01 05:07:20 but it can be stolen or lost almost anytime Mar 01 05:07:28 raster: yeah, because if you're in the right spot I can challenge you to steal one of my company's cards Mar 01 05:07:34 crashanddie: and all u need to do is now compromise the workstation - trojan, virus etc. and bobs your uncle Mar 01 05:07:42 as there is a 1 time password entry to unlock the other passwords Mar 01 05:07:50 you may as well just have 1 password for everything Mar 01 05:07:50 some rfid or bluetooth precence would be nice for that Mar 01 05:07:52 raster: you're oz right? Mar 01 05:07:57 yes Mar 01 05:08:07 as soon the device it farer aeay than some meters it locks for example Mar 01 05:08:08 raster: whereabouts? I'm in QLD atm Mar 01 05:08:13 sydney Mar 01 05:08:13 :) Mar 01 05:08:32 but a smart card wont helpu with a phone Mar 01 05:08:42 raster: actually it will Mar 01 05:08:53 and the statement is still true - invariably more security comes with more pain Mar 01 05:08:58 more thigns to lug around (smartcards) Mar 01 05:09:00 more things to lose Mar 01 05:09:03 more thnigs to forget Mar 01 05:09:05 etc. etc. Mar 01 05:09:09 raster: less passwords to maintain Mar 01 05:09:15 why maintain so many? Mar 01 05:09:18 1 PIN + card versus 12 to 14 passwords Mar 01 05:09:19 i only maintain 2 Mar 01 05:09:21 (average in corp/gov) Mar 01 05:09:27 why have so many Mar 01 05:09:30 set them to be the same Mar 01 05:09:38 as effectively thats hwat u have with a smartcard Mar 01 05:09:46 raster: so someone sniffs your password once and has access to your whole system Mar 01 05:09:47 compromise that 1 pw and all are compromised Mar 01 05:10:02 raster: so that's even easier than without a password, my point exactly Mar 01 05:10:18 imo passwords are among the worst ways to do auhtentication Mar 01 05:10:22 now, gtfo and call me when you need a real security expert ;) www.actividentity.com Mar 01 05:10:46 they are reasonable secure when done right .. but the usability has all kinds dark corners Mar 01 05:11:22 cehteh: having to type the fuckers in all the time is a pita Mar 01 05:11:29 so int he end firefox ends up just rememebring them all for me Mar 01 05:11:39 hell i have up with gdm login and passwords Mar 01 05:11:41 too much of a pita Mar 01 05:12:02 yeah same here, i consider websites (except a few like banking) rather unimportant Mar 01 05:12:09 if u've physically gotten to my machine to try and log in - u already have too much access anyway Mar 01 05:12:25 i use uuids copy/paste when i have to register somewhere and let firefor remember them Mar 01 05:12:26 (reboot and tell grub to boot with init = /bin/bash or whatever Mar 01 05:12:34 ic an then go ps locking grub and thenbios can fix that Mar 01 05:12:46 well my harddisk is encrypted Mar 01 05:12:50 (boot from another device - i have it set to boot off cd/dvd/usb storage if available anyway) Mar 01 05:12:53 and so on Mar 01 05:12:59 the chain u havew to secure.. is a PAIN Mar 01 05:13:07 and the laptop locks when i close the lid .. and i do that always when i leave it Mar 01 05:13:13 so why pretend - may as well just boot in to my user and be done with it Mar 01 05:13:14 :) Mar 01 05:13:22 cehteh: can take hdd out :) Mar 01 05:13:31 but if u encyprt $HOME - thats pretty good Mar 01 05:13:32 encrypted i saied Mar 01 05:13:37 still is a pain tho Mar 01 05:13:42 its not Mar 01 05:13:54 The question I am interested in at the moment is how hard is it to compromise an N900 without direct physical access. Mar 01 05:13:57 for me this is the ideal compromise Mar 01 05:14:03 if i can get to your hdd - i can comproise your kernel and get your decrypt key for $HOME Mar 01 05:14:19 Pavel: by an attack or via trojans? Mar 01 05:14:30 Pavel: that likely depends very much on what the user has running/installed Mar 01 05:14:38 (ie try and find an open/buggy service or kernel bug on tcp etc.)? Mar 01 05:14:51 i dont want to know all the flaws skype has Mar 01 05:14:53 or u are more thinking buffer overflows via web browser etc.? Mar 01 05:15:04 plus microb Mar 01 05:15:45 and tons of community coded communication apps .. jabber, irc, whatever Mar 01 05:15:57 cehteh: Indeed. Mar 01 05:16:00 my bet is that there are tonnes of flaws Mar 01 05:16:10 the vast majority - undiscovered. Mar 01 05:16:14 yes Mar 01 05:16:31 in any sufficiently complex set of softywre - u will have bugs, and some of those will be "exploitable" Mar 01 05:16:44 i discovered a few days ago that ovi chat already makes suspicious connections Mar 01 05:16:46 cehteh: I was thinking those over and above a PC with a Debian installation and a comparable set of applications (a web browser, a Skype client, IM software, etc.). Mar 01 05:16:53 the question is - where are they and how many hoops do you - or the user, have to jump thru? Mar 01 05:16:54 raster: hw-pw-cryped HDD and pw in BIOS is reasonably safe Mar 01 05:17:18 DocScrutinizer: i trust open source kernel encryption more Mar 01 05:17:19 DocScrutinizer: Depends on the threat model. Mar 01 05:17:30 DocScrutinizer: for full hdd - yes. but for $HOME - that'd be done via the kernel - thus its trappable if the kernel can be compromised Mar 01 05:17:39 well treat model .. Mar 01 05:17:43 and if u have access to the machine for just long enouhg Mar 01 05:17:50 raster: Or your keyboard. Mar 01 05:17:52 no one knows if ibm has some master key for example Mar 01 05:17:55 raster: I said HW-pw-crypted hdd Mar 01 05:17:59 unscrew,. take out hdd, mount, put in fcompromised kernel, stick back in laptop, presto. Mar 01 05:18:04 given to the fbi Mar 01 05:18:11 DocScrutinizer: pw needs to be provided via the kernel if its $HOME Mar 01 05:18:22 DocScrutinizer: as cehteh said - he encrypts $HOME Mar 01 05:18:31 via kernel level encryption Mar 01 05:18:39 Any thoughts? Mar 01 05:18:41 I wasn't refering to cehteh Mar 01 05:18:46 exactly ... you can already have a hacked bios with a key sniffer Mar 01 05:19:10 DocScrutinizer: hence i argue against hw encryption Mar 01 05:19:27 there is a level of trust involved i dont have .. it doesnt give me any gain Mar 01 05:19:43 DocScrutinizer: kernel can modify bios - patch it. compromisable. Mar 01 05:20:21 raster: of course if you're second one after any malware, you're busted any day Mar 01 05:20:21 against some causual thief just using linux would already enough :P Mar 01 05:20:23 u'd need a full chain with signed kernel to begint o make it secure Mar 01 05:20:41 cehteh: for a casual thief - you're fine Mar 01 05:20:55 for somehow who knows his shit and wants your data... it's theirs= to have. Mar 01 05:21:05 a virus could have infected the bios flasher I use to JTAG a new bios on a fresh machine Mar 01 05:21:32 well i make it hard :) .. well what was this xkcd .. moment Mar 01 05:21:33 a virus could have infected Intel's chip designing tools Mar 01 05:21:50 http://xkcd.com/538/ Mar 01 05:22:23 That is, about the relative insecurity against an automated or semi-automated remote attack of an N900 compared to a Debian PC which is always on and connected to the Internet, with Skype, a web browser, IM, etc. installed and used regularly. Mar 01 05:22:33 cehteh: hahahahahahaha - so true Mar 01 05:22:57 i have at least some level of plausible denyability .. when i manage to destroy the usb token with the key no one can retrieve the data Mar 01 05:23:12 Pavel: i'd say your n900 is more secure. Mar 01 05:23:29 and it really comes to plausible deniablity (and the recognition thereof) Mar 01 05:23:47 DocScrutinizer: To be fair, I wouldn't call such a thing a "virus" --- it would have to be a highly specialized attack, rather than a general-purpose self-reproducing code. Mar 01 05:23:57 raster: Interesting. Why? Mar 01 05:24:54 Pavel: arm vs x86 Mar 01 05:25:18 Pavel: much smaller target base Mar 01 05:25:49 That doesn't make that much of a difference, since the malware only has to be written once. Mar 01 05:26:21 That said, I am just guessing. Mar 01 05:26:43 yep, but risk = # of vulnerabilities * # of attacks Mar 01 05:27:01 Pavel: the n900 will be more secure because Mar 01 05:27:02 test vpn Mar 01 05:27:12 1. its running fewer services than most debian pc's. Mar 01 05:27:29 what a lag,but works Mar 01 05:28:04 did you nmap the n900 what ports are open? Mar 01 05:28:20 cehteh: I did Mar 01 05:28:30 nuttin found Mar 01 05:28:33 2. it's not x86 - th vast majority of explots and attacks are aimed at x866 - they are targetted as finding a flaw and baing able to insert some code - like actual binary that will jump off and run something/do something. the virtua writers/attackers are all focused on x86 - they mostly dont care or worry about arm. also they'd havfe to learn arm opcodes to d the same - and a small eprcentage of them may know arm - but its small compared to Mar 01 05:28:33 the mass of them knowing x86 Mar 01 05:28:50 so by sheer numbers - you're more secure as there are frankly fewer attacks - if any. Mar 01 05:28:55 my n900 has 22 and 80 open Mar 01 05:29:00 well there are some iphone viri Mar 01 05:29:09 cehteh: they do exist Mar 01 05:29:14 80? Mar 01 05:29:18 arachnist: both intentional i guess Mar 01 05:29:22 its not a matter of 'can it happen' its "is it likely to happen" Mar 01 05:29:23 cehteh: yes Mar 01 05:29:25 Pavel: http Mar 01 05:29:30 and udp? Mar 01 05:29:34 arachnist: I know. But why? Mar 01 05:29:35 DocScrutinizer: I was looking at the dbus methods and properties and saw that on org.maemo.Playback there are many properties on each stream, namely State, pid and such. For changing the alarm, couldn't you just add a hook to org.maemo.Playback, check when it's the phone application (by pid) that is calling it, check if it is an alarm ring, change just the wav/mp3 file on-the-fly if the number belongs to a set, and get on with that? Mar 01 05:29:50 DocScrutinizer: I mean, for the alarms by contact stuff Mar 01 05:30:12 Also, AFAIK most actual exploits nowadays involve vulnerabilities in client software the victim runs. Mar 01 05:30:20 yeah Mar 01 05:30:38 arachnist: whats on port 80? Mar 01 05:30:38 And N900 has an old version of flash *shudder*. Mar 01 05:30:43 nothing on my n900 on port 80 Mar 01 05:31:13 has root a password? Mar 01 05:31:19 here not .. only key auth Mar 01 05:31:50 Quick question --- is there a way to become root if gainroot is not installed? Mar 01 05:31:53 yes, rootme, isn't it? Mar 01 05:32:07 Pavel: by openssh Mar 01 05:32:17 or R&D mode Mar 01 05:32:19 raster: lighttpd here Mar 01 05:32:33 arachnist: welkl thats definitely not a default setup :) Mar 01 05:32:35 but all require some things to install or tweak Mar 01 05:32:40 u've added that later yourself Mar 01 05:32:40 :) Mar 01 05:33:00 What if SSH server is not installed, and R&D mode is disabled? Mar 01 05:33:14 hmm Mar 01 05:33:21 'tcp port 53 is open on n900 Mar 01 05:33:23 well, what if the screen is broken and the battery is off the device? Mar 01 05:33:29 odd - its running a n open dns server there Mar 01 05:33:30 :P Mar 01 05:33:36 that shoul dbe local only Mar 01 05:33:38 odd Mar 01 05:33:55 Pavel: you enable R&D mode! easy Mar 01 05:33:56 ptl: I was describing the software configuration of a typical user. Mar 01 05:34:15 Pavel: i sync photos and music over it (webdav) Mar 01 05:34:27 ptl: I am willing to bet that majority of even the rather geeky N900 demographic does not have SSH serve installed. Mar 01 05:34:29 grr server still down Mar 01 05:34:36 Pavel: btw those exploits almost always rely on... x86 code to bve executed Mar 01 05:34:44 sure - there may be ones that inject java bytecode Mar 01 05:34:49 or flash bytecode into buffers etc. Mar 01 05:34:59 but they will be much rarer Mar 01 05:35:03 damn, lost connection after [2010-03-01 06:29:50] DocScrutinizer: I mean, for the alarms by contact stuff Mar 01 05:35:05 raster: Attackers adapt. Mar 01 05:35:08 * cehteh would like to add some password for gainroot .. Mar 01 05:35:18 raster: Is the ARM architecture inherently less vulnerable to these things? Mar 01 05:35:19 ptl: you can't change on the fly. You are not dbusd Mar 01 05:35:25 but maybe you can finish the first ringtone and immediately issue your own Mar 01 05:35:26 cehteh: Can't you edit sudoers to do that? Mar 01 05:35:28 ptl: but, as I mentioned before, I did a dbus-monitor (-s) and scrutinized each line of both logs of a inbound call, and I'm quite sure I've not seen any call to any *.playback Mar 01 05:35:30 Pavel: they do - but u asked if the debian pc vs n900 .. which is more secure given a typical set of usage - n900 is - by far. Mar 01 05:35:34 Pavel: yep Mar 01 05:35:40 yes - attackers can adapt Mar 01 05:35:43 but they havent Mar 01 05:35:49 DocScrutinizer: oh, I was just going to do that. :( Mar 01 05:35:50 and they wont until it becomes worth their while Mar 01 05:35:55 thats why windows is where all the action is Mar 01 05:36:01 raster: How would you know if they did? Mar 01 05:36:06 windows is the vast majority os and thus its what they attack Mar 01 05:36:27 Pavel: this is about an exploit getting root access? Mar 01 05:36:35 Pavel: the same way u'd know they did for your pc Mar 01 05:37:13 raster: Fair enough. Let's hope this approach --- of being secure because the architecture/OS combination you use is used by so few --- is so obscure --- works. We'll call it "security through obscurity". :P Mar 01 05:37:28 Pavel: it does work Mar 01 05:37:36 its not ABSOLUTE security Mar 01 05:37:47 there is no such thing give any sufficiently complex bit of software Mar 01 05:37:51 there is only relative security Mar 01 05:37:52 raster: I was referring specifically to the x86/ARM divide. Mar 01 05:38:02 the more obscure u are the lower the chance that u will be attacked - successfully. Mar 01 05:38:43 The reason I am so interested in this issue is that I am trying to decide whether I can trust the device to store my passwords. Mar 01 05:38:44 if u are asking "is the n900 100% absolutely secure" the answer is no Mar 01 05:38:50 neither is the debian pc Mar 01 05:38:56 anyway it worked for Mac, it worked for linux. And both are much larger target base Mar 01 05:38:58 or a host of os's and machines Mar 01 05:39:00 than N900 Mar 01 05:39:03 its all about the relative risk Mar 01 05:39:16 and the n900 will have a lower relative sick to a debian pc Mar 01 05:39:22 raster: Right. The question is about their relative vulnerabilities: what makes one more vulnerable or less vulnerable than the other. Mar 01 05:39:50 its a cat and mosue game Mar 01 05:39:58 or game of attrition Mar 01 05:40:06 if everyone uses the same os on the same hw Mar 01 05:40:06 raster: For example, a world-writable system-wide configuration directory might help an attacker, should one decide to attack... Mar 01 05:40:13 well.. attackers have an easy job Mar 01 05:40:16 target 1 thing only Mar 01 05:40:31 the more combinations of os + architecture the more work they have Mar 01 05:40:42 so either they will spplit that effort evenly over everything Mar 01 05:40:56 or relatively based on attack success probability Mar 01 05:41:04 attackers dont have unlimited resource Mar 01 05:41:16 if u simply "strain" their resources - they will be less successful Mar 01 05:41:51 Pavel: yes. it may help them Mar 01 05:42:09 but.. if an attacker is targetting you and gets into a process run as your user id... game over man. game over. Mar 01 05:42:22 risk = # of vulnerabilities * # of attacks Mar 01 05:42:31 give me that acces - and i have access to your display. access to your display (x) means your arse is mine. Mar 01 05:42:38 you are so owned. Mar 01 05:43:07 the question is.. if they get that far - actually compromise your application successfully - they likely then have targetted this attack for an n900 Mar 01 05:43:19 I am seeing 53 TCP open on mine... Mar 01 05:43:22 and i'd say bets are all off if they get that far as they will use whatever local weakness they know of Mar 01 05:43:27 and u'll have lots of them Mar 01 05:43:32 Pavel: dnsmasq Mar 01 05:43:35 Pavel: yeah. dns. nodd. as imentioned above Mar 01 05:43:42 it shouldnt be listening externally Mar 01 05:43:54 just on the local loopback Mar 01 05:44:03 i'd say thats a configuration oversight Mar 01 05:45:49 That was nmap localhost. Mar 01 05:45:52 So that's OK. Mar 01 05:46:07 LOL Mar 01 05:46:36 nmap from outside shows port 1042, which nmap from within doesn't. Mar 01 05:47:10 * DocScrutinizer suggests netstat -tupla --- faster Mar 01 05:47:14 #53 is dnsmasq Mar 01 05:47:33 DocScrutinizer: fail beezybox has no -p Mar 01 05:48:00 fail - I don't use messybox Mar 01 05:48:07 hehe Mar 01 05:48:22 well for real embedded things it might make sense .. Mar 01 05:48:32 btw busybox is suid root usually :-P Mar 01 05:48:34 but hey the n900 is markteted as internet tablet Mar 01 05:48:48 now if THAT'S no security issue XP Mar 01 05:48:56 yeah Mar 01 05:49:21 well tell me when you at nokia and fix the partitioning stuff ... then we can look forward a real gnu userland Mar 01 05:49:41 :-P Mar 01 05:50:17 I'm EE. Ranting about system stuff is mere hobby ;-) Mar 01 05:50:29 ok Mar 01 05:50:31 That's odd... 1042 is closed a few minutes later. Mar 01 05:50:42 and my n900 work now nice .. even after reboot Mar 01 05:50:51 Pavel: skype? Mar 01 05:51:00 cehteh: Probably. Mar 01 05:51:06 ouuuuuuch Mar 01 05:51:18 cehteh: Everything else is pure client. Mar 01 05:51:36 ovi chat does very strange things btw Mar 01 05:51:53 and since ovi share never worked for me i am considering to ditch that crap Mar 01 05:52:16 cehteh: What's Ovi Chat? Mar 01 05:52:45 haha i dont even know .. some chat service you get with an ovi account Mar 01 05:52:55 never used it and i have no contacts there Mar 01 05:53:13 i just wanted to try the photo upload things but that failed too Mar 01 05:53:33 i really want a sftp sharing plugin to upload to my server Mar 01 05:53:55 yeah, you can even /msg other ovi users, if you know their address etc Mar 01 05:53:56 but well i prolly just mount it with sshfs Mar 01 05:54:12 cehteh: Ah. Mar 01 05:54:14 DocScrutinizer: you have an ovi account? Mar 01 05:54:20 yep Mar 01 05:54:23 :-P Mar 01 05:54:37 GeneralAntilles: I have to build the issue, don't have access to twitter so it'll be light Mar 01 05:54:39 did picture sharing ever worked for you and am i to stupid to use it? Mar 01 05:54:44 that is, I had Mar 01 05:54:53 dunno if I killed it Mar 01 05:55:14 (oic share) once it kinda worked, yeah Mar 01 05:55:28 always crashes here Mar 01 05:55:35 though it was a hell to find the public URL where that crap went to Mar 01 05:56:20 picture sharing over internet or over 3g? :P Mar 01 05:56:23 * Pavel created his a few days ago to try Firefox from the Ovi store. Mar 01 05:56:27 the 3g variant isn't supported Mar 01 05:56:33 yep sharing plugin for sftp/scp would be so much nicer Mar 01 05:56:50 ShadowJK: wlan Mar 01 05:57:29 eeeek, it's even active Mar 01 05:57:50 omg Mar 01 05:59:36 cehteh: it's possible (abd rather simple?) to write own plugins for share services Mar 01 05:59:44 afaik Mar 01 05:59:47 yeah Mar 01 05:59:53 i wait for someone doing that :P Mar 01 06:00:08 i am not gtk/gui programmer Mar 01 06:00:08 GeneralAntilles: so that went nicely to shit... can't write to www dir Mar 01 06:00:30 cehteh: I guess it's a number of short config files Mar 01 06:00:45 nope its really code to write with a library api Mar 01 06:00:53 eeek Mar 01 06:00:55 but not terribly complicated Mar 01 06:01:12 i may try someday Mar 01 06:01:55 By the way, I've been trying to figure something out. There is a /home/user/.gnupg that comes on a fresh N900. The directory is owned by root (not user) and contains only one file: trustdb.gpg . Does anybody have any idea what it's there for and what it does? Mar 01 06:01:56 given the idiotic "chroot" to MyDocs, I give a shit about integrated share services Mar 01 06:02:28 Pavel: did you installed claws or gpg extensions for modest? Mar 01 06:02:38 user menu script for mc, so much more versatile Mar 01 06:02:58 cehteh: No, I didn't. Like I said, I first noticed it on a fresh install, a month ago. Mar 01 06:03:12 ah i have that too Mar 01 06:03:15 cehteh: Also, it's owned by the root, not user. Mar 01 06:04:08 Pavel: app manager Mar 01 06:04:14 yeah prolly installed on a fresh device .. trusting nokia, the fbi and the mossad Mar 01 06:04:26 signed pkgs Mar 01 06:04:40 actually its empty Mar 01 06:04:55 are package on maemo signed? Mar 01 06:05:22 DocScrutinizer: The thing is, there is a different place for the keys used to sign Debian packages. Mar 01 06:05:35 cehteh: I hope to any deities that might exist that they are... Mar 01 06:05:43 well look at that file its a empty db Mar 01 06:05:55 cehteh: Is it an empty file? Mar 01 06:06:05 Mine wasn't. Mar 01 06:06:13 looks like a empty db, not empty file Mar 01 06:06:19 cehteh: Ah. Mar 01 06:06:30 cehteh: How do you show contents of trustdb? Mar 01 06:06:31 header and some null bytes Mar 01 06:06:39 i just used less :) Mar 01 06:06:49 what else Mar 01 06:06:56 the *real* less Mar 01 06:06:59 hd, gpg, Mar 01 06:07:04 yes the real less Mar 01 06:07:12 hexdump -C Mar 01 06:07:56 if less can't do it, use mc ;-) Mar 01 06:07:56 i dont need hexdump to recognize null-bytes :P Mar 01 06:08:05 heh i dont use mc Mar 01 06:08:15 if mc can't do it, it's not worth to be done at all Mar 01 06:08:49 Well, it gets in the way of the user's GPG. Mar 01 06:09:02 hehehe Mar 01 06:09:08 file a bug? Mar 01 06:09:11 *fail* Mar 01 06:09:33 It's owned by root, so the user can't overwrite it. Mar 01 06:09:44 oh yeah, if we got a buck for a bug filed Mar 01 06:09:51 The one time they actually care about privileges. Mar 01 06:10:03 lol Mar 01 06:10:11 rotfl Mar 01 06:10:41 By the way, the bugs for the bits written by Nokia go to bugs.maemo.org, right? Mar 01 06:10:43 you ain't seen nothing yet Mar 01 06:10:48 LESSBINFMT='*k%x' less /home/user/.gnupg/trustdb.gpg Mar 01 06:10:53 eeek :) Mar 01 06:10:53 DocScrutinizer: Eh? Mar 01 06:11:04 check out SHR (Openmoko system) Mar 01 06:11:14 cehteh: Eh? Mar 01 06:11:16 Pavel: right Mar 01 06:11:19 try it :) Mar 01 06:11:21 and extras stuff Mar 01 06:11:27 * Pavel doesn't have less installed. Mar 01 06:12:32 on some other comp then Mar 01 06:13:06 cehteh: hehehe Mar 01 06:13:21 mikkov, you around? Mar 01 06:14:31 i don't have any trustdb.gpg... Mar 01 06:14:47 DocScrutinizer: What's SHR? Mar 01 06:15:53 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/SHR Mar 01 06:16:31 OK, in what rubric am I supposed to report that? https://bugs.maemo.org/enter_bug.cgi?classification=Maemo%20Official%20Platform Mar 01 06:16:33 damn .. 1. march .. no time for my 1.st april project Mar 01 06:16:41 Pavel: Security, possibly Mar 01 06:16:41 Maemo Weekly News: 1 March 2010 is up. Get it now at http://www.mwkn.net Mar 01 06:16:51 ali1234: Interesting. So nothing in /home/user/.gnupg/ ? Mar 01 06:18:56 Is BugZilla account distinct from the Garage account? Mar 01 06:19:02 yes, sadly Mar 01 06:19:09 @#$% Mar 01 06:22:16 Pavel: system software Mar 01 06:23:02 Stskeeps: no security ? Mar 01 06:23:29 By the way, does anyone _not_ have root-owned /home/user/.gnupg/ on their N900? Mar 01 06:23:55 yes i do :P Mar 01 06:24:02 eh wrong .. i have Mar 01 06:25:54 ali1234: Can you take a look? Mar 01 06:25:59 Pavel: I confirm Mar 01 06:26:25 * Pavel wonders if maybe they got rid of it in more recent devices. Mar 01 06:26:52 nah, my firmware is as recent as it gets Mar 01 06:27:11 * DocScrutinizer wonders if ali1234 missed the dot Mar 01 06:30:17 DocScrutinizer: Sure, but a firmware upgrade wouldn't delete that directory if it was there before the upgrade. Mar 01 06:30:45 not if you need to reflash Mar 01 06:30:47 Pavel: i flashed pr1.1.1 earlier today Mar 01 06:30:56 ah halt .. thats mmc .. forget Mar 01 06:31:05 oooh Mar 01 06:31:09 yes Mar 01 06:31:27 so it's quite possible, yes Mar 01 06:31:59 just forget about it .. chown user it .. or remove / backup it or whatever Mar 01 06:32:08 * DocScrutinizer wonders... Mar 01 06:32:52 no ~root/.gnupg Mar 01 06:34:38 grrr, I need MOAAR SPACE on rootfs. I want my findutils and dunno what else Mar 01 06:35:21 hey guys, anyone here know how to get vnc online with ssh? having a coupla problems Mar 01 06:36:29 I've done it. What's your problem? Mar 01 06:37:17 DocScrutinizer: copy /usr to /home and do a late bind-mount there Mar 01 06:37:20 reading through the guide on the forums and i'm absolutely sure this is simple as anything but i can't do the last two things. i'll copy/paste the tasks in question: Mar 01 06:37:31 Copy and rename the public key from the N900 (/home/user/.ssh/id_rsa.pub) to C:\Program Files\freeSSHd\fred on the PC (the same name as you used for the user you created earlier, with no file extension). Mar 01 06:37:31 On the N900: Mar 01 06:37:32 Create a configuration file /home/user/.ssh/config (to simplify the connection strings): Mar 01 06:37:41 cehteh: hehe, exactly what I thought this minute Mar 01 06:38:01 DocScrutinizer, use a space spreader. Why would they sell you space spreader if you couldn't spread the space. Mar 01 06:38:41 mollyringwald: So your SSH connection doesn't work? Have you tried it without the public key? Mar 01 06:38:56 Termana_n810: nah, I don't like the colors they come Mar 01 06:39:03 Just plain old ssh to N900. Does that work? Mar 01 06:39:04 ... the whole room stopped for a second there at my poor joke Mar 01 06:41:14 hmmm yay for broken egl Mar 01 06:41:29 who do i get to grumble at about broken egl on maemo? Mar 01 06:41:39 * raster prepares his pistol Mar 01 06:42:24 egl? Mar 01 06:42:47 E ... Mar 01 06:43:54 DocScrutinizer, don't think too hard Mar 01 06:43:57 :P Mar 01 06:44:04 do egl. indeed Mar 01 06:44:09 DocScrutinizer: egl indeed Mar 01 06:44:14 gles comes with egl. Mar 01 06:44:17 as opposed to glx Mar 01 06:44:47 thought all starting with E is yours ;-P Mar 01 06:45:41 they stole it damnit! Mar 01 06:45:41 DocScrutinizer: install findutils-gnu Mar 01 06:45:50 uhm .. dont tell me that evince is a 'e' project :P Mar 01 06:45:50 * raster 0wnz E! Mar 01 06:45:57 t-tan: aha. Why? Mar 01 06:45:58 my letter damnit.. mine! Mar 01 06:46:03 cehteh: it isnt Mar 01 06:46:06 puuh Mar 01 06:46:18 DocScrutinizer: it takes zero rootfs space Mar 01 06:46:26 well i was sure ... :P Mar 01 06:46:37 zero? Mar 01 06:46:39 t-tan: how that? Mar 01 06:46:44 i dont believe Mar 01 06:46:52 me neither Mar 01 06:47:00 raster - All your E are belong to US Mar 01 06:47:08 DocScrutinizer: it's optified (approx. zero :) Mar 01 06:47:10 Termana_n810: damned stright! Mar 01 06:47:57 damn, If I need to check each basically non-maemo pkg for whether it's optified or not... Mar 01 06:48:30 t-tan: how comes findutils is optified?? Mar 01 06:49:30 DocScrutinizer: findutils-gnu and the other *-gnu packages are built for the device Mar 01 06:49:36 DocScrutinizer: since i have ext3 everywhere now i can finally make a full chroot including sdk and whatever i like Mar 01 06:49:54 no optify and other crap :) Mar 01 06:50:35 I'd be more than happy with moving /usr and /var to eMMC Mar 01 06:51:02 yeah try it tell me .. i dont want to reflash :) Mar 01 06:51:24 cehteh: how do you mount your device via usb? Mar 01 06:51:31 tybollt: i dont Mar 01 06:51:36 in the Moebian project we're working on a Maemo fork that is bootable from eMMC/SD and has no opt problem Mar 01 06:52:15 t-tan: Has Xenu approved of that? Mar 01 06:52:22 Moebian? is jebba involved? Mar 01 06:52:29 Termana_n810: hah, good one Mar 01 06:52:30 :P Mar 01 06:52:38 apparently it's not so easy. Mobile + Debian = Moebian Mar 01 06:52:49 :P Mar 01 06:53:05 i mean its reall not that hard to do partitioning right .. i wonder how nokia could failed so hars Mar 01 06:53:17 cehteh: you bet I'll do later this day Mar 01 06:53:23 IroN900:~# du -sx /var /usr Mar 01 06:53:24 71464 /var Mar 01 06:53:26 290360 /usr Mar 01 06:53:34 t-tan: will you beat me if i tell you fanoush did clone-to-SD already? :P Mar 01 06:53:38 cehteh: partitioning was not the only thing the did wrong... Mar 01 06:54:33 Stskeeps: i'll only beat you if you don't give me some link :D Mar 01 06:55:22 for someone who is familiar with the Maemo boot process and internals it should be trivial. I'm not yet Mar 01 06:56:01 cehteh: another "that's not a bug, that's a feature" I guess Mar 01 06:56:06 http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=444600&postcount=45 Mar 01 06:57:11 t-tan: you are aware that you're in high risk of going completely mad by digging into it too much? :) Mar 01 06:57:30 t-tan: maemo boot is closed in many parts... Mar 01 06:58:04 preinit being closed is a bit of a clusterfuck, yes Mar 01 06:58:06 Stskeeps - look who showed up - I told you he was involved! :P Mar 01 06:58:15 https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7019 Mar 01 06:58:17 but actually /mnt/initfs/linuxrc was of same license in the paste Mar 01 06:58:18 -e Mar 01 06:58:18 Bug 7019: Release source code of "getbootstate" Mar 01 06:58:52 that everyone ignored the license is another thin Mar 01 06:58:52 g Mar 01 06:58:52 :P Mar 01 06:59:17 Stskeeps: those are pretty much the same steps I used but it didn't work Mar 01 06:59:43 yes, I'm not trying to dig to deep. my therapist will stop me ;-) Mar 01 06:59:56 does anyone else have any idea about vnc by way of ssh? i feel like the kid who forgot to bring their floaties to their swimming lesson Mar 01 07:00:06 either my gps got a fix indoors or suppl.nokia.com is back ... whats more unlikely? Mar 01 07:00:40 mollyringwald: You're not in the vnc-part at all yet. It's just basic SSH'ing and SCP. Mar 01 07:01:05 Stskeeps: thanks for the links, anyway. I'll try it again Mar 01 07:04:25 https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9331 Mar 01 07:04:26 Bug 9331: Root-owned /home/user/.gnupg directory in fresh installation obstructs GPG. Mar 01 07:11:45 Stskeeps: is there any documentation about the bootprocess except for https://arch.nord.thebc.ch/wiki/index.php/N900_Installing_and_using_Bootchart ? Mar 01 07:12:21 t-tan: we used to have some for diablo but fremantle is fairly new land Mar 01 07:12:30 it basically goes preinit -> upstart Mar 01 07:12:35 and then read event.d from there Mar 01 07:14:59 okay, simpler question: how do i copy a file from /home/user/.ssh to my pc? Mar 01 07:15:30 scp? Mar 01 07:15:30 :P Mar 01 07:16:07 oh, i should have prefaced that by saying that i don't know anything about anything! Mar 01 07:17:12 mollyringwald: email the file then :) Mar 01 07:17:19 Stskeeps: thx. during boot I see that preinit tries mkdir -p mnt/initfs on the ro rootfs and fails. is that normal or do i have to create mnt/initfs myself Mar 01 07:17:37 mollyringwald: how do you know? :) Mar 01 07:17:48 t-tan: you should create mnt/initfs yourself Mar 01 07:18:59 t-tan: instinct Mar 01 07:19:02 Stskeeps: that could explain a lot. thx. Mar 01 07:19:24 t-tan: maemo demands 'rw' rootfs fwiw Mar 01 07:20:16 uh why would you not have RW rootfs on a device like the 900? Mar 01 07:20:25 Stskeeps: I know. I remount rw manually in rcS. I wonder where and when Maemo on NAND does it? Mar 01 07:20:36 tybollt: it doesn't, ubifs is mounted rw initially Mar 01 07:20:45 at least on n900 Mar 01 07:20:49 er, t-tan Mar 01 07:21:00 during boot / is ro initially on normal Linux Mar 01 07:21:10 mollyringwald: you should be able to use scp, if you have a password for root on N900. installing ssh packet includes a password setting iirc Mar 01 07:21:11 yes, but this isn't normal windows Mar 01 07:21:20 er, linux Mar 01 07:21:30 and hence why therapy is a needed luxury when dealing with maemo :) Mar 01 07:21:36 linux isn't normal, mind ;P Mar 01 07:21:56 Maemo is totally abnormal Mar 01 07:22:30 docscrutinizer it probably helps that i have no idea what scp is :P Mar 01 07:22:50 you have a linux system on your PC? Mar 01 07:22:56 no, windows xp Mar 01 07:23:00 an eccentric Linux distro for normal people... Mar 01 07:23:03 get putty Mar 01 07:23:11 gah! Mar 01 07:23:16 yah putty works Mar 01 07:23:29 also.. ps on N900. It's tripped to the bone? Mar 01 07:23:33 stripped even Mar 01 07:23:44 mollyringwald: just plug your device into your computer via USB and you can access the files on it. Mar 01 07:24:06 or email it, like i mentioned above Mar 01 07:24:18 jebba i know that but the folder in question isn't displayed in file manager or windows explorer Mar 01 07:24:25 alright, got putty open Mar 01 07:24:43 mollyringvald, you could just copy the file to MyDocs first. Then plug it in. Mar 01 07:25:00 well, it's gotta be *somewhere* in the file manager, if its somewhere on the device i would think (but havent used gui filemanager on maemo much) Mar 01 07:25:04 mollyringwald: with putty you should be able to use scp-alike command to copy files to root@n900 Mar 01 07:25:12 winscp as well Mar 01 07:25:12 :P Mar 01 07:25:48 mollyringwald: or from N900 Mar 01 07:26:12 no idea abot windoof, Stskeeps ;-P Mar 01 07:26:37 where do i enter this command? Mar 01 07:26:46 wasn't so keen to suggest cygwin Mar 01 07:27:26 putty comes with an icon to click afaik Mar 01 07:28:00 mollyringwald: winscp you probably need cmd for Mar 01 07:28:09 I'm not sure how you plan to help mollyringwald scp a file they can't find in the file manager, but have fun, Mar 01 07:28:33 oh i've got the program open, it has a configuration window i just have no idea what to do with said window Mar 01 07:29:08 just close it, cant be important :P Mar 01 07:29:50 sorry, I can't help any further. No windows here Mar 01 07:30:37 man, i can't believe locating a file is so difficult Mar 01 07:30:51 let's try this: Mar 01 07:31:16 on n900 in a terminal, enter 'root' Mar 01 07:32:02 done Mar 01 07:32:08 is here any maemo.org developers - the search on site is terrible Mar 01 07:32:48 ZogG: Last I looked, it was downright broken. Mar 01 07:32:50 mollyringwald: sorry, enter 'exit' Mar 01 07:33:10 okay Mar 01 07:33:11 Pavel it's working over site but not whole one Mar 01 07:33:20 i can't search thru brainstorm Mar 01 07:33:25 mollyringwald: enter 'cp /home/user/.ssh/id_rsa.pub /home/user/MyDocs/.documents' Mar 01 07:33:39 ZogG: Oh. Well, in that case, it used to be even worse. ;) Mar 01 07:34:05 mollyringwald: enter 'cp /home/user/.ssh/id_rsa.pub /home/user/MyDocs/.documents/' Mar 01 07:34:08 better Mar 01 07:34:33 no sshfs for windows? :) Mar 01 07:34:38 Stskeeps: boot output looks better now. but it hangs at progression dots Mar 01 07:34:58 no repository.mamemo.org for me :/ still Mar 01 07:34:59 there it is! Mar 01 07:35:01 thank you :) Mar 01 07:35:28 what you say about it - first of all i'm terrible at discribing problems and english is not my native language as you see - can you understand this - http://maemo.org/community/brainstorm/view/multilayot-language_support/ Mar 01 07:35:35 mollyringwald: now hook n900 to pc via usb cable, and select mass storage from menu on n900 Mar 01 07:35:42 t-tan: did you fix the mount /home issue? Mar 01 07:35:44 i can cover the rest :) Mar 01 07:35:51 i was just having issues with locating the file Mar 01 07:35:58 i'm not completely useless, i swear! Mar 01 07:36:01 ZogG: you're missing an m in yout nickname. :) Mar 01 07:36:11 Stskeeps: that was the first thing it did after copying Mar 01 07:36:21 tybollt i don't thin so =) Mar 01 07:36:30 mollyringwald: fine :-) Mar 01 07:36:53 tybollt, but how is an idea itself? Mar 01 07:36:58 Stskeeps: if I hold the power button for reboot, I can see error log for a brief moment. I should take a picture Mar 01 07:39:01 cehteh: why don't you use jebba's repo? Mar 01 07:39:42 has he a mirror? Mar 01 07:40:50 cehteh: /topic ;-) Mar 01 07:41:20 ah Mar 01 07:41:43 ~hail jebba Mar 01 07:41:44 * infobot bows down to jebba and chants, "I'M NOT WORTHY!!" Mar 01 07:42:12 maybe i should mirror it too .. i guess it wont be that big, few GB at worst Mar 01 07:42:19 ~jebba++ Mar 01 07:43:17 cehteh: check legal issues first Mar 01 07:44:02 its only 'free' so ? Mar 01 07:44:17 not sure. Best ask jebba Mar 01 07:44:24 will do Mar 01 07:44:59 maybe we can even setup some round-robin dns Mar 01 07:45:49 yeeew, sophisticated shit Mar 01 07:47:08 when i run "ssh keflex.ath.cx" in x terminal it tells me connection refused, any idea what i might have done wrong? Mar 01 07:47:16 you'd need to keep the repos in sync *all* time Mar 01 07:47:48 ssh user@keflex.ath.cx Mar 01 07:48:08 please setup more mirrors, reprepro config is here http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Tanner#Setting_up_a_repository_mirror Mar 01 07:48:17 but actually I guess you got wrong URL Mar 01 07:49:06 it's the dns i made with dyndns Mar 01 07:49:33 dyndns? so I assume you're behind a router/NAT Mar 01 07:49:41 yep Mar 01 07:49:49 hehe - fun Mar 01 07:49:59 not really! Mar 01 07:50:01 :( Mar 01 07:50:06 you need to open up a port forwarding in your NAT Mar 01 07:50:13 i did, for port 522 Mar 01 07:50:21 which is what i've set up in the config file Mar 01 07:50:29 nah Mar 01 07:50:50 your external port probably is different? Mar 01 07:50:59 or is it 522 as well? Mar 01 07:51:06 how would i check? Mar 01 07:51:08 DocScrutinizer: since he provides rsync that shoulldnt be a problem Mar 01 07:51:14 mompl Mar 01 07:51:21 can N900 wifi be used as a WPA encrypted hotspot? Mar 01 07:51:33 not ad-hoc Mar 01 07:52:22 mollyringwald: your external port 522 is unresponsive Mar 01 07:52:37 t-tan: i am speaking about mirror on a internet server, not on the device Mar 01 07:52:48 hrm, that sucks. how do i fix it up? Mar 01 07:52:54 cehteh: me too Mar 01 07:53:32 ah only that headline .. the wiki is a bit confusing Mar 01 07:54:24 Err http://espejo.freemoe.org fremantle Release.gpg Mar 01 07:54:24 The HTTP server sent an invalid reply header [IP: 65.254.57.11 80] Mar 01 07:54:26 grr Mar 01 07:54:32 mollyringwald: that's hard to tell. check your router/nat setup Mar 01 07:54:56 pfportchecker says 522 is open, not sure if that counts for anything Mar 01 07:55:20 you need to map -> : Mar 01 07:55:39 ah, you've lost me! Mar 01 07:56:09 yay .. rootfs 100% Mar 01 07:56:54 mollyringwald: you got an internal IP (or name) of your PC. Mar 01 07:57:18 as in does my pc have a static ip? if so, yeah it does Mar 01 07:58:28 mollyringwald: on your router/NAT you need a port forward from external port (522?) to that specific machine (by name or IP), to the particular port of ssh (usually 22 if you haven't changed it in your PC's ssh config) Mar 01 07:58:48 changed it to 522 Mar 01 07:58:56 heh joikuspot is ... an interesting app Mar 01 07:58:56 on your PC? Mar 01 07:58:59 yeah Mar 01 07:59:30 ok the probably you want to forward external port-522 to internal-IP:522 Mar 01 08:00:38 i'm pretty sure i've done that, i followed the instructions on portforwarding Mar 01 08:00:50 usually NAT config GUI offers convenient ways to enter these 3 values Mar 01 08:01:23 well then I guess your PC isn't running any ssh service atm Mar 01 08:02:26 mollyringwald: the correct incantation would be "ssh -p 522 user@keflex.ath.cx" Mar 01 08:02:41 mollyringwald: from any machine *not* on your LAN Mar 01 08:03:04 mollyringwald: i.e. somewhere else in global net Mar 01 08:03:33 trying now, switched to packet data Mar 01 08:03:37 is there any way to add search thru brainstorm? Mar 01 08:03:55 mollyringwald: if your N900 is on WIFI of that same router, it probably won't work Mar 01 08:04:14 mollyringwald: depends on your router Mar 01 08:06:40 mollyringwald: you checked a possibly existing firewall of your router? Mar 01 08:06:53 what router is that? Mar 01 08:07:03 netcomm nb5plus4w Mar 01 08:07:18 erhm. no idea Mar 01 08:07:40 if your router has a firewall, you need to open up that port forward there Mar 01 08:07:44 so noone said if my brainstorm proposal is understandable enuf - anyone has a free minute to look thru it? Mar 01 08:09:18 would turning off firewall solve the problem? Mar 01 08:09:44 try it Mar 01 08:10:19 mollyringwald: yes Mar 01 08:10:28 if it's that problem Mar 01 08:11:16 mollyringwald: heh!! Mar 01 08:11:28 mollyringwald: you opened up external port 22 Mar 01 08:11:36 aw man Mar 01 08:11:41 i'm clever Mar 01 08:12:30 well, it 'worked'. so just fix that port forward and you're almost there Mar 01 08:13:27 it doesn't make any sense though, i just took a look at the rule i applied Mar 01 08:13:30 Protocol Port Start Port End Port Map Mar 01 08:13:30 TCP,UDP 522 522 522 Mar 01 08:13:55 yup Mar 01 08:14:06 so what am i changing? Mar 01 08:14:09 Can someone do a sanity check in a real browser? microb isn't showing the "Read more" links on http://www.mwkn.net/2010/09/front.html Mar 01 08:14:19 errr Mar 01 08:14:31 looks good Mar 01 08:14:41 except the missing spaces Mar 01 08:14:55 and you don't need UDP, but nevermind Mar 01 08:15:04 missing spaces? Mar 01 08:15:27 well that 522522522 Mar 01 08:17:09 anyway, on external port 22 (standard for ssh) it works. Now you fix that port forward, and you're done. And I'm off now, got to get breakfast Mar 01 08:17:27 alright, thanks for all the help :) Mar 01 08:19:03 yw Mar 01 08:19:34 just left a "greeting" in your logfile ;-) Mar 01 09:22:10 morning Mar 01 09:22:36 moo Mar 01 09:43:04 sshfs -o nonempty ct@public.pipapo.org:n900 /media/mmc1/DCIM Mar 01 09:43:25 .. klick .. http://public.pipapo.org/ Mar 01 09:43:30 wohoo :) Mar 01 09:43:52 it will fail when you lose connection Mar 01 09:44:02 sure Mar 01 09:44:17 that's why i like gallery2 plugin Mar 01 09:44:22 well i can route that through my vpn .. then it will stay alive Mar 01 09:44:39 and there is -o reconnect Mar 01 09:44:41 it will time out when you lose your connection Mar 01 09:45:00 nope ssh with the right options doesnt time out Mar 01 09:45:15 everything times out Mar 01 09:45:20 and ssh can do nothing about it Mar 01 09:46:31 ip_conntrack_tcp_timeout_established i /proc/sys/net........ Mar 01 09:46:46 even that will time out without traffic Mar 01 09:47:42 cehteh, what are the right options? Mar 01 09:47:48 I never had much luck with sshfs reconnecting Mar 01 09:48:06 mhm ok .. but well ssh has keepalives, i have static ip at home vpn tolerates some connection loss as long buffers dont overrun ... or maybe even then it just blocks Mar 01 09:48:16 anyways just made this a funny test Mar 01 09:48:41 all keepalives do is make the ssh connection die sooner when your router craps out for a few seconds ;) Mar 01 09:48:51 for me anyway :( Mar 01 09:48:56 mgedmin: depends on your connectivity .. batchmode, keepalive and so Mar 01 09:56:33 moo ab Mar 01 09:56:40 re * Mar 01 10:03:53 moo Mar 01 10:08:09 does anyone else have problems with the ICQ telepathy plugin? i cant connect for days. though its the same with pidgin on my laptop. did icq change their protocol again... Mar 01 10:08:57 I think that years passed since icq was sane protocol Mar 01 10:11:31 i guess this is a good moment to get rid of it Mar 01 10:11:45 Shapeshifter, I've given up on ICQ. Only reason I hung on to it for so long was because they were the first. Mar 01 10:12:21 hrw: OSCAR was sane? or do you mean relative? Mar 01 10:12:35 i still have a few contacts who seem to use it exclusively. Mar 01 10:13:08 people still use iCQ Mar 01 10:13:09 ? Mar 01 10:13:38 they dont know any better Mar 01 10:13:57 make them switch to XMPP Mar 01 10:14:36 * Arif_ throws MSN at zash Mar 01 10:15:00 * zash hits MSN back att Arif_ with spectrum Mar 01 10:15:11 * Arif_ sellsit Mar 01 10:17:03 zash: actually here in CZ is ICQ so popular it's used almost exclusively Mar 01 10:17:50 * Arif_ sends some new technology to murrica Mar 01 10:19:46 gah..! why the frak does not this config file recognize SDL_mixer? Mar 01 10:26:41 * mece tries without sound, since the autoconf doesn't recognize SDL_mixer as installed. Mar 01 10:27:19 aww, no telnet client for n900 Mar 01 10:27:59 no netcat? Mar 01 10:28:27 netcat? Mar 01 10:28:29 Milo-, apt-get telnet Mar 01 10:28:41 netcat is like telnet but awesome Mar 01 10:28:48 mece tried but no sugar Mar 01 10:28:57 Milo-, works for me. Mar 01 10:29:02 probly in devel or something. Mar 01 10:29:28 ah Mar 01 10:29:35 I don't use devel Mar 01 10:30:08 benbrown no netcat, socat can be found though Mar 01 10:30:25 Milo-: I swear I seen a telnet client in HAM this morning Mar 01 10:30:52 me too .. and server Mar 01 10:30:53 ham? Mar 01 10:34:01 is there a particular reason why gnet-2.0 package is not in the repos? Mar 01 10:36:27 oh well.. seems to build fine at least. Mar 01 10:40:21 hmm, whats available for the n810 so i can capture data from a serial port from the attached usb device? Mar 01 10:40:35 and also to work out what port the usb device has installed Mar 01 10:52:49 RST38h: do you know if the window title is customizeable in xchat Mar 01 10:54:58 auenf, urg, not sure. lbt may know, because afaik he was testing some sort of microcontrolled plugged into usb Mar 01 10:55:01 ages ago Mar 01 10:55:28 hmm, a_wait_bcon Mar 01 10:55:37 even when its connected and powering this device Mar 01 10:55:51 does that mean it hasnt detected a device? Mar 01 10:57:24 auenf: does N810 have host USB ? Mar 01 10:58:09 ab: ping Mar 01 10:58:45 of course n810 has host usb Mar 01 10:58:46 I really like the http://www.pfranc.com/usb/usb.shtml which I own Mar 01 10:59:29 it sounds silly that I would go to trouble of buying a special USB and serial converter like that... but I did. It works very well. Mar 01 11:00:20 I can't say if it works better than another type... most of the USB-serial converters work without trouble in my experience Mar 01 11:00:28 im trying to determin if this reader will work as straight usb Mar 01 11:05:50 cehteh: sure. You just need to recompile after that Mar 01 11:06:10 haha Mar 01 11:07:24 its a bit redundant and i cant see the channel name Mar 01 11:07:54 maybe i make it configureable if it isnt already Mar 01 11:08:47 while I'm here, any of you familiar with Qt in Maemo? I have trouble with the keepassx port, the text fields are too small for the height of the fonts Mar 01 11:09:07 is that possible to work-around with a theme rc ? Mar 01 11:09:48 the text fields inside keepassx are N-height but they should be N*2-height Mar 01 11:30:34 if I want to use OpenCV in my project for maemo, where should I install the library? there is only the instruction for intalling opencv in linux, but i got no idea about how to use it in scratchbox Mar 01 11:32:47 scratchbox should be transparent Mar 01 11:32:59 you would install it the same way you'd normally install it Mar 01 11:33:05 minus issues about optification Mar 01 11:35:13 ping pupnik Mar 01 11:36:45 cd .. Mar 01 11:36:48 oops Mar 01 11:44:48 so I could intall the opencv package under any direction in linux? and I could use it through pkg-config in scrathbox? Mar 01 11:45:57 if it has a .pc file yeah Mar 01 11:47:13 lucent: you can ask in #qt-maemo Mar 01 11:47:36 tho if it's not available on the device itself you'll need to build the library too Mar 01 11:56:10 is there a way to extract the raw data buffers (GstBuffer) from a video stream when using gdigicam? Mar 01 11:56:18 timeless: Hi, Can you please check under the table cloth in the canteen? I think 1.2 is lost, we need to find it. Mar 01 11:57:10 ping timeless Mar 01 12:07:39 tybollt, you just missed him Mar 01 12:08:00 ping, pupnik Mar 01 12:14:52 Stskeeps, sold my n810 for 530 PLN, am still surprised I got that much Mar 01 12:22:28 has anyone used QDBusConnection for catching incoming sms messages? Mar 01 12:32:46 lovelyboy: i dont see that opencv has been built for maemo Mar 01 12:33:02 that could be good thing Mar 01 12:33:12 use it to focus on faces while making photos Mar 01 12:33:13 hi mece Mar 01 12:33:32 tonikitoo: 530PLN is like a nothing Mar 01 12:34:05 ? :) Mar 01 12:34:06 jebba: But I found something like this: https://garage.maemo.org/projects/opencv/ Mar 01 12:34:16 TomaszD: nice price Mar 01 12:34:23 pupnik, I was wondering how you threw the Glib::Error i saw you mention in a irc log. Mar 01 12:34:40 I did this: std::auto_ptr ex; balbhabl(asdf, asdf, ex) Mar 01 12:34:48 pupnik, eg. solved. Mar 01 12:35:58 some version is different from what this source wants, so I need to run through the whole thing and add std::auto_ptr ex; to everything. Bleh! Mar 01 12:36:36 bleh Mar 01 12:36:36 * mgedmin remembers only one thing about std::auto_ptr -- a strong suggestion to never use it Mar 01 12:37:01 mgedmin, but when it' Mar 01 12:37:04 s required Mar 01 12:38:42 i must have done the old "delete what i dont need or understand" mece Mar 01 12:44:30 woot Mar 01 12:44:42 3 bugs already filed on opengl-es on n900.. and counting Mar 01 12:44:44 MUHAHAHAHA Mar 01 12:44:53 congrats? Mar 01 12:49:08 does anybody have sylpheed claws screenshot on n900? Mar 01 12:51:11 daaaaamns.. Why oh why is there no consistency here? or am I missing something. apparently Gtk::Dialog:: requires a std::auto_ptr at the end, which it apparently doesn't need on whatever this is normally compiled. Mar 01 12:51:43 yay c++! Mar 01 12:51:48 exactly. Mar 01 12:51:48 * raster hides Mar 01 12:51:57 lol Mar 01 12:51:57 c ftw. Mar 01 12:52:11 seriously Mar 01 12:52:18 gtkmm is not going to help u Mar 01 12:52:21 just get in the way Mar 01 12:52:24 use the c api for gtk Mar 01 12:52:31 use qt Mar 01 12:52:37 don't touch that gtk crap Mar 01 12:52:40 dude, I'm not writing a program. I'm compiling Mar 01 12:52:43 ewwwww Mar 01 12:52:49 * raster makes signs of warding Mar 01 12:52:52 * SpeedEvil wonders if a newer schematic will leak. Mar 01 12:54:09 oh lovely Mar 01 12:54:23 let's have us a religious war over c vs c++ Mar 01 12:54:23 * raster grumbles about scratchbox and ending up having a different machine per sb sdk he has installed Mar 01 12:54:30 tybollt: AWESOME! Mar 01 12:54:40 hell I'll throw in cobol and lisp and we'll make it a day? Mar 01 12:54:41 * raster brings out the morning star and popcorn Mar 01 12:54:51 raster: :D Mar 01 12:54:58 tybollt: nah. c and c++ can happily entertain me for hours Mar 01 12:54:59 :) Mar 01 12:55:02 i wonder if there are Xlib bindings for cobol Mar 01 12:55:30 jaska: .. dude, i'm trying to *eat* Mar 01 12:55:32 :P Mar 01 12:55:36 hehehe Mar 01 12:55:37 sorry Mar 01 12:56:03 or perhaps motif/cobol Mar 01 12:56:04 shiiit! Mar 01 12:56:13 ok.. now I'm getting annoyed. Mar 01 12:56:22 kill someone! Mar 01 12:56:27 quick. Mar 01 12:56:29 hmm.. naah. Mar 01 12:56:31 mece: Wasn Mar 01 12:56:36 mece: Wasn't me, I swear Mar 01 12:57:34 konttori: moo Mar 01 12:59:34 Gentlemen (and ladies) could you look at bug #9192 and comment or vote Mar 01 12:59:35 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9192 Media Player applet stops working after a while Mar 01 13:00:04 ('cause I am damn tired of having to restart media player applet every few hours) Mar 01 13:01:29 so apparently Glibmm in maemo5 does not have property_pixbuf() Mar 01 13:01:30 iirc it is duplicate Mar 01 13:01:33 * mece sighs Mar 01 13:01:41 RST38h: 1.2, hmmm? Mar 01 13:02:52 tybollt: bugzilla still says unconfirmed Mar 01 13:03:37 RST38h: voted Mar 01 13:03:57 bug #9199 someone? Mar 01 13:03:59 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9199 Message list shows incorrect entries Mar 01 13:04:20 RST38h: :-& Mar 01 13:04:21 or bug #8989 Mar 01 13:04:22 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8989 number -> name decoding for sms should only be decoded from phone number fields of contacts Mar 01 13:04:43 pillar: thanks Mar 01 13:05:02 RST38h: np, it's an annoying bug Mar 01 13:07:54 BTW, concerning Lisps: I think I'll finally publish clisp-2.48+ fremantle .debs today. Fixed FFI+shared libraries issue Mar 01 13:08:15 ++ ivan4th Mar 01 13:09:41 libffcall for fremantle will stay as a fork for some time I think though. The maintainers seem to be somewhat afraid of my maemo-related patches there (gcc-related trickery etc.) Mar 01 13:21:26 please have a look at http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=550967 Mar 01 13:21:54 soo, is there a program to trigger any action when I plug in/take off a cable to/from the line out? Mar 01 13:23:54 headphone daemon apparently does some part of that, but I'd like to play-on-insert and stop-on-removal Mar 01 13:23:56 qgilN900: FUD's a good term for it, or community psychosis :) Mar 01 13:24:29 by FUD I mean the original meaning of the acronym, yes Mar 01 13:26:12 qgilN900: you should get the biz nokians to say whats uyp with meego and n900 Mar 01 13:26:28 as such until u do - rumors will fly and be rife - and you cant do much about it Mar 01 13:26:52 need to go, let's discuss Mar 01 13:27:34 a clear message saying "yes, there will be meego/harmattan for the n900" would shut up most, if not all, of the naysayers Mar 01 13:28:47 even a 'we intend to try to make it available to n900' would help the situation Mar 01 13:28:51 well, meego should be pretty open, so it should be runnable on the n900 Mar 01 13:28:58 except the battery ;) Mar 01 13:29:06 satmd: and if they don't do it, shareholders can sue their pants off Mar 01 13:29:06 :P Mar 01 13:29:18 In fact, it will probably run on there before a released device ;) Mar 01 13:29:19 jebba: why the battery exception? Mar 01 13:29:22 huh, did someone make text bigger on tmo minimalist? *sigh* Mar 01 13:29:41 arachnist: because that is closed source, so can't port it to meego (for instance. There's a few more) Mar 01 13:29:44 I think that for nokia the cheapest option is to do not say anything so community will get angry and work on adding n900 to be unofficially supported Mar 01 13:29:53 heh Mar 01 13:30:48 oh, atleast minimalist dark is almost as small as the normal Mar 01 13:31:07 Stskeeps: I doubt that, given the vagueness of this statement ... "we try, but don't complain if we don't succeed" Mar 01 13:31:10 * ShadowJK wonders how come "minimalist" is gigantic Mar 01 13:32:28 duh Mar 01 13:32:33 this is linux shadow... Mar 01 13:32:42 hrw: don't forget leaking schematics to mae it easier. Mar 01 13:33:58 SpeedEvil: to tell the truth I do not care about schematics availability Mar 01 13:34:19 SpeedEvil: I have schematics for 770, n800, n810, few developer boards which I have but never made use of them Mar 01 13:34:24 yeah - it's - largely - unimportant. Mar 01 13:34:43 at least once you've got a running kernel and drivers Mar 01 13:35:05 It\'s only when you want to add features that are missing that it can be handy Mar 01 13:35:51 if it wasn't for schematics availability, i wouldn't have both of the GbE ports on my other arm toy available Mar 01 13:44:55 arachnist: which one? Mar 01 13:45:30 hrw: openrd-client. Mar 01 13:46:35 hrw: one of the early kernel patches had a bad address under which the phy for the second GbE was supposed to be available, but thanks to schematics the correct number could be figured out Mar 01 13:52:00 ah Mar 01 13:52:05 openrd-client is nice Mar 01 13:54:41 well, i use it as a router, so having both of the network interfaces working is rather important for me Mar 01 13:58:40 how do i grab an already cached zoutube file? this re-download is lame Mar 01 13:59:50 * MohammadAG thinks it's stupid to have a leap 'year' problem on the 1st of March Mar 01 14:00:15 its a 'lack of a leap year' problem right? Mar 01 14:00:23 my watch kept telling me it was the 29th all day Mar 01 14:00:30 stupid analog thing Mar 01 14:00:51 if i didnt change it, it would have said tomorrow was the 30th Mar 01 14:00:52 auenf, at least your watch works ;) http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/28/playstation-network-down-so-are-lots-of-ps3s/ Mar 01 14:02:14 hhmh, how can anything think we're a leap year :) Mar 01 14:02:22 its an even year ;) Mar 01 14:02:27 and it ends in a 0 Mar 01 14:02:50 and the first two digits of the year is divisible by 4 Mar 01 14:02:50 Corsac, all fat PS3s stopped working on the 28th-1st of March Mar 01 14:03:02 MohammadAG: fix was to ... ? Mar 01 14:03:16 look at your PS3 till it's fixed Mar 01 14:03:17 isnt one yet Mar 01 14:04:00 pulled the ethernet cable before I switched mine on, and it seems to be working fine, what worries me is that I'm curious so I might plug it any second Mar 01 14:04:22 tybollt, date was reset to 31/12/1999, and trophies went corrupt Mar 01 14:04:32 MohammadAG: :S Mar 01 14:04:54 MohammadAG: zune ol over again Mar 01 14:04:55 ? Mar 01 14:04:57 and we all remember what playstations were like in 1999 Mar 01 14:04:59 yep lol Mar 01 14:05:08 the 2008 problem Mar 01 14:05:22 but you have to sign in to get it, I'm not affected (yet) Mar 01 14:05:29 how incredibly ... ugh Mar 01 14:05:32 auenf: “even” year isn't exactly enough :) Mar 01 14:07:41 14:50 you've give me no indication you're going to contribute positively on the channel Mar 01 14:07:44 not that Mar 01 14:07:47 14:51 and you're right Mar 01 14:07:48 http://niebezpiecznik.pl/PoC/Firefox_3.6/poc.html Mar 01 14:07:55 anybody can try if that crashes microB? Mar 01 14:08:18 Crashes firefox at least :D Mar 01 14:08:27 Thanks! Mar 01 14:08:41 doesn't crash midori :) Mar 01 14:08:54 no crash in firefox 3.6 here Mar 01 14:09:02 OTOH everythign else crashes midori Mar 01 14:09:06 I have FF 3.6 and it crashed Mar 01 14:09:20 jacekowski: thanks for mentioning up front that it tries to crash the browser this time around Mar 01 14:10:12 marienz: you are everywhere Mar 01 14:10:50 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqef_8U4ce4 <| lol Mar 01 14:12:58 * GAN900 yawns Mar 01 14:14:28 FF 3.6 on debian here, no crash Mar 01 14:15:04 crashed on FF 3.6 - Windows Mar 01 14:15:28 jacekowski: "XML Parsing Error:" on Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux x86_64; en-US; rv:1.9.2.2pre) Gecko/20100228 Namoroka/3.6.2pre Mar 01 14:18:08 MicroB crashes after a few seconds Mar 01 14:19:41 I noticed that if microB is started up and a site is opened, it doesn't start loading it directly Mar 01 14:20:17 Hi guys, when Im on wlan and I get out of range, maemo doesnt automatically switch to gprs. is this normal? Mar 01 14:20:48 mine switches automatically, check your settings Mar 01 14:21:29 Has anyone had that 'usb port falling out' issue? Is it just pre-production models? Mar 01 14:21:29 Menu > Settings > Internet Connection > set it to connect automatically to any access point Mar 01 14:21:41 benbrown, mostly, yes Mar 01 14:22:06 sorry I wasnt detailed enough. I mean it doesnt switch for mail and exchange. mail doesnt initiate a connection Mar 01 14:23:09 Jaffa, you're never going to be free. :P Mar 01 14:23:14 crashanddie, usuk Mar 01 14:23:34 GAN900: sorry? Mar 01 14:23:46 crashanddie, hi. :) Mar 01 14:24:01 GAN900: I didn't have the twitter credentials, wasn't anything I could've done Mar 01 14:24:07 GAN900: be happy the bloody issue came online Mar 01 14:24:42 plus you were offline, so any editing from that point would've been moot too Mar 01 14:24:48 crashanddie, yes, yes, thank you, seb. :P Mar 01 14:24:54 oh fuck off Mar 01 14:25:42 mohammadAG: does mail initiate a connection on your device? Mar 01 14:26:00 Modest? Yeah Mar 01 14:26:31 modest... I hope it will die Mar 01 14:26:51 is it push or fetch mail? Mar 01 14:27:18 fetch only - idle support is disabled in maemo Mar 01 14:27:52 It's push here Mar 01 14:27:53 hrw, what do you mean with idle support? Mar 01 14:27:56 (Nokia Messaging) Mar 01 14:28:35 Djkrikke: IMAP IDLE Mar 01 14:28:47 so if you are disconnected, nokia messaging brings back the connection? Mar 01 14:29:36 Djkrikke, yes, it does get annoying sometimes Mar 01 14:29:44 maemo17^Wmeego2031 will finally merge modest with nokia messaging to give people only one email component Mar 01 14:29:55 Djkrikke: yes - that's why crackberries + iphones are sold w/ dataplans Mar 01 14:30:05 hrw: Which still doesn't work? Mar 01 14:30:38 derf: did I said something about working component? Mar 01 14:30:52 hrw: Just so long as we're clear. Mar 01 14:32:57 battery went flat in less than 2 hours today Mar 01 14:33:08 I like bricks, I'm ordering an extended battery Mar 01 14:33:25 X-Fade ping Mar 01 14:44:26 MsnBot [Freezer] [MassAdder] [And More] Add 'bot@hackersrus.info' to your contact list for FREE access! Mar 01 14:45:10 :) Mar 01 14:47:24 MohammadAG, what the hell were you doing? Mar 01 14:47:44 Playing Flash games over 3G while watching Finding Nemo? Mar 01 14:50:21 i wish we could lower flash cpu consumption Mar 01 14:51:24 pupnik, how about using html5? Mar 01 14:52:09 flash is the dark side of the force Mar 01 14:52:32 i got friends streaming their stuff on ustream Mar 01 14:53:07 actually managing at 65 pct cpu atm Mar 01 14:53:43 but i gotta keep the charger in or it chews battery Mar 01 14:54:41 anybody know some server software that will remux ustream to a reasonable format? Mar 01 15:00:36 DocScrutinizer: when you used dbus-monitor to try and find the message that plays the ring sound, did you use the system dbus or the session dbus? I just noticed that pyCallblocker.py uses the system bus, but I monitored the session bus and it also sends a message to org.freedesktop.Telepathy.Client.CallUI with an object /org/freedesktop/Telepathy/Connection/ring/tel/ring/incoming that has some data, like the number of the phone calling Mar 01 15:04:57 ptl: apt-get install mdbus2 - easier tool to use then dbus-monitor/dbus-send Mar 01 15:06:16 can someone help me add the correct repository to get qtify from "the user/multimedia section"? Mar 01 15:06:26 http://maemo.org/packages/view/qtify/ <--- Mar 01 15:07:54 Anyone got problems with the phone speaker in n900? Mar 01 15:07:58 going dead quiet? Mar 01 15:08:00 etc... ? Mar 01 15:17:41 matthew-, yes. it sucks :P Mar 01 15:17:47 :/ Mar 01 15:17:52 so it's not just my phone? Mar 01 15:17:59 wait Mar 01 15:18:02 do you mean the loudpseakers Mar 01 15:18:05 no no Mar 01 15:18:06 or the one on the screen Mar 01 15:18:12 the one on the screen Mar 01 15:18:18 oh Mar 01 15:18:20 nope works fine ;P Mar 01 15:18:29 ah ok Mar 01 15:18:32 shit then ;d Mar 01 15:18:35 its only me lol Mar 01 15:18:40 the speakers on the other hand... Mar 01 15:18:42 =P Mar 01 15:19:18 the speaker works brilliant for me lol Mar 01 15:19:40 you must have a different phone then :P Mar 01 15:21:14 matthew- - there have been reports on tmo about the phone speaker going dead quiet Mar 01 15:21:51 it's apparently a hardware problem with a crappy dodgy connection between the audio chip and speaker, apparently a nokia care centre should be able to sort it for you in pretty short order Mar 01 15:21:55 nid0: you mean the 'phone' little speaker? Mar 01 15:21:59 yes Mar 01 15:22:00 mhm Mar 01 15:22:09 ive got my phone insured, so Mar 01 15:22:20 thinking of jsut dropping it on the flor and ordering new one Mar 01 15:22:21 ;-) Mar 01 15:22:31 well its a warranty fix, its apparently just that the connector's a bit weak and sometimes breaks away Mar 01 15:22:40 = you end up with a speaker that goes really quiet now and then Mar 01 15:22:43 The GPS antenna, FM antenna, earpiece, and some other bits are connected by spring connectors Mar 01 15:22:57 nid0: ah ok Mar 01 15:33:16 Is there spotify app for N900 - Maemo 5? Does it work on free account? Mar 01 15:33:46 none works with free account Mar 01 15:34:03 :<, Okay thanks for information. Mar 01 15:34:29 what's the maemo 5 deb package that provides the version number in "About Product", again? Mar 01 15:36:47 tybollt, do you have a PS3? Mar 01 15:37:01 is there a way to verify that all files in the package database are actually on disk ? Mar 01 15:37:09 mtd, osso-product-info? Mar 01 15:37:42 is this where that damn spam comes from onjoin? Mar 01 15:38:37 MohammadAG: IIRC it has "mr0" in the name, but that's all I can recall :( Mar 01 15:39:56 * mtd 's about product shows 2009.44-1 but apt and HAM claim there are no updates. Mar 01 15:41:38 mtd, mp-fremantle-generic-pr? Mar 01 15:42:44 MohammadAG: ahh sounds familiar! thanks Mar 01 15:42:57 anyone got an E: Handler Silently Failed when they try to install any ovi app from terminal? Mar 01 15:43:00 np Mar 01 15:43:39 hmmm Mar 01 15:44:06 * Arif_ throws PR1.2 in the middle of the channel Mar 01 15:44:22 ;D Mar 01 15:44:55 * luke-jr takes out his katana and slices PR1.2 in 503.1 pieces Mar 01 15:45:16 MohammadAG: mp-fremantle-generic-pr seems not to exist, but mp-fremantle-203-pr does. Mar 01 15:45:28 * mtd wonders if my sources.list.d is broken Mar 01 15:45:32 mtd, depends on which variant you have installed Mar 01 15:45:34 * Arif_ gets 503.1 phones and installs each piece on a phone Mar 01 15:45:36 still dont know how to use opencv in scratchbox Mar 01 15:45:49 I have the gobal firmware, that seems to be the UK one (-203) Mar 01 15:46:38 i could install opencv package in linux, and pkg-config could find opencv in the list Mar 01 15:46:45 WHAT? PR1.2 is out? Mar 01 15:46:56 RST38h, ? Mar 01 15:47:01 but in scratchbox, pkg-config cant find opencv Mar 01 15:47:12 RST38h, who? what? where? why? :p Mar 01 15:47:12 RST38h, no Mar 01 15:47:21 but I can make you one if you like Mar 01 15:47:21 anything i need to do? Mar 01 15:47:24 it'll run Windows phone 7 Mar 01 15:47:46 Arif_, can you change the architecture to x86 while you're at it? :p Mar 01 15:47:48 MohammadAG: ah, ok...makes sense for me. Mar 01 15:47:58 I'll try :P Mar 01 15:48:19 if you want beta testers I'm here Arif_ :p Mar 01 15:48:26 is there a good augmented reality app for the N900? Mar 01 15:48:27 :D Mar 01 15:48:38 ptl, the N900 isn't real Mar 01 15:48:39 :o Mar 01 15:48:46 there's a nifty demonstration one in the works Mar 01 15:48:57 doesnt actually do anything functional that I can see tho Mar 01 15:49:00 I've seen this nifty demonstration Mar 01 15:49:10 but I want an app to impress my friends :P Mar 01 15:49:18 gpodder repeatedly marks my played podcasts as unplayed Mar 01 15:50:23 I want the faster bluetooth technology on the N900 Mar 01 15:50:25 :P Mar 01 15:50:56 I want a powermat battery :( Mar 01 15:51:24 * Arif_ offers nid0 a mugen battery :P Mar 01 15:51:29 ugh Mar 01 15:52:05 for only $150+shipping! Mar 01 15:52:13 I want the faster bluetooth technology on the N900 Mar 01 15:52:19 x86 should make it faster :P Mar 01 15:52:32 =P Mar 01 15:52:38 cause x86 is higher than A8 Mar 01 15:52:41 xD Mar 01 15:52:41 hi there. i am having a small problem with my n900 and was wondering if there was someone here who could help me Mar 01 15:52:47 i need to install libsdl-haa Mar 01 15:52:52 but i cant find it Mar 01 15:53:04 apt-get libsdl-haa? Mar 01 15:53:06 i already added all extras repositories Mar 01 15:53:09 nope Mar 01 15:53:12 doesnt work Mar 01 15:53:23 google a deb and install that? Mar 01 15:54:49 google search for "libsdl-haa" yielded exactly one result and that was an irc log where someone said its in the "extras" repository Mar 01 15:54:57 but as i have already said, i already added all three Mar 01 15:55:06 I still haven't gotten qtirrecco to work Mar 01 15:55:30 if there's only one result Mar 01 15:55:35 maybe its called something else Mar 01 15:58:00 if i remove the quotes around libsdl-haa oder google libsdl and haa separately, i only get references to either libsdl or haa, but never on the same page. i have no idea how else it could be called Mar 01 15:58:17 but i have a deb that depends on this Mar 01 15:58:27 libsdl-haa1.2- Mar 01 15:58:44 that's odd Mar 01 15:58:46 qtirecco doesnt work properly for me either :< Mar 01 15:58:53 stop using debs that depend on unfindable dependancies :P Mar 01 15:59:09 great, thanks Mar 01 15:59:26 found I had to manually cp one of it's config files elsewhere and even then most remote profiles just seem to do nothing :\ Mar 01 16:00:13 maybe that's why it's in devel Mar 01 16:04:51 funny n900 browser wont access files on localhost if your running a webserver on n900 but not connected to a network Mar 01 16:05:33 what about the other browsers? Mar 01 16:06:07 Andrewfblack: does it have a 'localhost' loopback then? Mar 01 16:06:23 and if you try 127.0.0.1? Mar 01 16:07:28 127.0.0.1 works Mar 01 16:08:17 you can try adding 'localhost' to the hosts file Mar 01 16:09:43 stupid onjoin bots Mar 01 16:10:32 * lcuk drops a bucket of mouldy herrings on LinuxCode Mar 01 16:10:59 * LinuxCode dies in smelly fish junk Mar 01 16:12:15 i believe our cpumem applet does not show battery drain by phone radio Mar 01 16:12:58 * Arif_ needs a new phone Mar 01 16:13:34 just raked a couple hours, took one photo and shared it to flickr and ran about 2.5 hours of podcasts... battery down to 20 ,ct again Mar 01 16:13:38 pct Mar 01 16:14:05 from an indicated 95 pct Mar 01 16:14:06 * w00t headdesks Mar 01 16:14:19 I just spent an hour wondering why my n900 isn't notifying me about email anymore Mar 01 16:14:29 you're not connected to the internet? Mar 01 16:14:39 then I remembered that I changed most of my filters to not dump stuff in my inbox, to avoid cluttering it and driving me crazy Mar 01 16:14:43 (mailing lists etc.) Mar 01 16:14:58 that'll work too Mar 01 16:15:09 pupnik, I unplugged my phone yesterday Mar 01 16:15:14 set an alarm Mar 01 16:15:21 listened to 3 hours of internet radio Mar 01 16:15:25 and it's down 2 blocks Mar 01 16:16:45 what program do you play stream with arif Mar 01 16:17:01 w00t: :) Mar 01 16:17:07 KMPlayer Mar 01 16:17:59 media player sucks at radio Mar 01 16:18:01 aquatix: you have no idea how happy yet frustrated that made me :P Mar 01 16:18:09 it goes to different channels every few minutes :P Mar 01 16:18:10 ghehe Mar 01 16:18:57 Arif_: which KMPlayer? the mplayer wrapper, or the illegal Windows media player Mar 01 16:19:13 the one from extras :P Mar 01 16:19:33 oh, #maemo Mar 01 16:19:34 nm Mar 01 16:20:17 oh great Mar 01 16:20:22 I can't wait for new firmware now Mar 01 16:20:32 apparently my search bug is fixed Mar 01 16:21:17 * Arif_ goes to Nokia HQ with a torch and fork Mar 01 16:21:44 Af'noon Mar 01 16:21:52 Arif_: do you want to borrow my pitchfork? Mar 01 16:22:02 yes Mar 01 16:22:09 * Hydroxide prefers pitchspoons Mar 01 16:22:14 I'll get you a €25 Ovi Store voucher on the way Mar 01 16:22:15 :p Mar 01 16:22:25 pitchknifes ftw Mar 01 16:22:33 you can use them as soon as Ovi gets any apps to buy Mar 01 16:22:34 :D Mar 01 16:22:58 * zash goes digging in some hay Mar 01 16:23:06 * lcuk believes developers work better when not threatened with pitchsporks Mar 01 16:23:50 * javispedro notes that deadlines alone are already enough threating for most developers, no need for pitchsporks Mar 01 16:24:16 * Arif_ pokes lcuk with the pitchrollingpin Mar 01 16:24:21 write a fat app for n900 Mar 01 16:24:22 nao! Mar 01 16:24:47 i prefer slim apps tyvm Mar 01 16:24:51 hmmm, sporks Mar 01 16:25:04 anyway, gone home Mar 01 16:25:06 hf Mar 01 16:25:10 Ovi store should have 100000 burp apps :( Mar 01 16:25:26 deadlines make this nice whooshing sound when they fly by... Mar 01 16:25:32 Arif_: over 9000 isn't enouch? Mar 01 16:25:46 mgedmin: i love that sound Mar 01 16:25:56 you and Douglas Adams Mar 01 16:26:05 zash, no Mar 01 16:26:10 mgedmin: i love Douglas Adams Mar 01 16:26:21 apple doesn't think so at least :D Mar 01 16:27:56 tbh ovi just needs one, angry birds level pack :< Mar 01 16:30:16 * Arif_ sells nid0 the level pack for €2,98 Mar 01 16:30:54 please do :< Mar 01 16:31:07 And still no firmware updte for UK users of n900 Mar 01 16:31:08 rotfl Mar 01 16:31:10 that's stupid Mar 01 16:31:19 ditch uk firmware, reflash global Mar 01 16:31:47 yeah will have to Mar 01 16:31:55 thou will have to backup atc.. Mar 01 16:31:56 :> Mar 01 16:32:58 did you call nokia care and ask where the fw update is? :) Mar 01 16:33:05 Why's the UK so special it has its own firmware? Mar 01 16:33:06 :P Mar 01 16:33:35 s/special/unlucky Mar 01 16:33:53 we have a different keyboard ;) Mar 01 16:34:00 * ShadowJK threw out the idea on tmo that uk users could organize and have a call-nokia-care-and-ask-for-update day Mar 01 16:34:00 ShadowJK, nokia care's response is it didnt come because of a "technical problem" Mar 01 16:34:37 funnily enough seems to be the same technical problem thats caused nokia to delay uk variant firmware updates on practically all of their phones for the past several years by timespans ranging from hours to forever Mar 01 16:34:50 maybe they couldn't figure out how to get the ovi maps car icon to drive on the left side of the road Mar 01 16:34:58 lol Mar 01 16:35:00 does ovi maps have a car icon? Mar 01 16:35:10 the s60 one does Mar 01 16:35:17 haven't tried ovi on N900 Mar 01 16:35:21 it might be im route settings Mar 01 16:35:21 no Mar 01 16:35:23 I'm not sure the n900 ovi maps has maps. Mar 01 16:36:07 afaik driving on the left-right is built into the map not the software? :p Mar 01 16:36:09 ah ok, I should leave ovi maps ranting for the pros. Mar 01 16:36:25 there's not much to rant Mar 01 16:36:30 the idea behind calling nokia care is to provide feedback so that nokia eventually wakes up and stops considering the variants system a good thing Mar 01 16:36:31 since there's not much to use in the first place :P Mar 01 16:36:38 touché :) Mar 01 16:37:05 so hmmm. no maemo calculator? Mar 01 16:37:05 ShadowJK, nokia have been getting blasted by their uk users for years over not releasing uk updates promptly/ever Mar 01 16:37:06 the media player is another story Mar 01 16:37:08 :D Mar 01 16:37:41 nid0: probably just on forums and blogs, which aren't read by the right people :D Mar 01 16:37:44 still no uk release of v22.007 for e72's Mar 01 16:37:52 javispedro, ordered gles book and done some more investigations :) Mar 01 16:37:55 worldwide variant was released on 12th of january. Mar 01 16:38:05 lcuk: good Mar 01 16:38:15 can't wait to see what you'll do with gles :) Mar 01 16:38:30 * lcuk nods Mar 01 16:38:45 yay for product code changing \o/ Mar 01 16:39:04 btw, can't you flash the international image in uk phones? just curious Mar 01 16:39:09 at least the n900 is a step in the right direction in that a product code doesnt need changing. Mar 01 16:39:14 javispedro: yes, most can. Mar 01 16:39:19 "most"? Mar 01 16:39:22 * SpeedEvil can't as he's taking part in a trial. Mar 01 16:39:26 ah. Mar 01 16:39:29 (well, a survey) Mar 01 16:39:37 political impediments Mar 01 16:39:38 I'm running Win7 64 Mar 01 16:39:44 I can't use the flasher Mar 01 16:39:44 :D Mar 01 16:39:48 use xp mode, or a virtual machine Mar 01 16:39:58 I dont' have a UK phone Mar 01 16:40:33 SpeedEvil is sending all his data to Nokia! Mar 01 16:40:39 yup. Mar 01 16:40:48 Though it's anonamised supposedly. Mar 01 16:40:52 Does flasher work in a virtual machine? I kinda doubt it. Mar 01 16:40:53 behold http://www.browserchoice.eu ! Mar 01 16:40:57 it works fine. Mar 01 16:41:06 Maemo needs one of those, it's shipping microb! Mar 01 16:41:13 I've yet to dig through and find if they are properly salting phonenumbers before sending themthough Mar 01 16:41:22 At least it didn't work in VMWare way back when I tried it Mar 01 16:41:23 md5sum phonenumbers = fail Mar 01 16:41:40 SpeedEvil, is it anonymized if you're the only one Mar 01 16:41:40 it worked fine for me in both xp mode and virtualbox installs of ubuntu and xp Mar 01 16:41:44 :> Mar 01 16:41:49 I've never heard of half those browsers Mar 01 16:41:51 Ok, good to know. Mar 01 16:42:18 ShadowJK: it does not send clear phonenumbers, but encrypts or hashes. I haven't investigatedwhich. Mar 01 16:45:33 * javispedro demands a wizard for building build=x86_64 host=arm-gnueabi target=i386 binutils debian packages Mar 01 16:46:43 Hm, so minimalist dark is "16 Arial", and minimalist light is "xx-large Arial" Mar 01 16:46:49 I'm sure they were the same size before Mar 01 16:46:50 grrr Mar 01 17:07:52 moo Mar 01 17:10:06 oom! Mar 01 17:10:13 :O Mar 01 17:10:50 * timeless_mbp is always on the lookout for oom! Mar 01 17:10:59 omo? Mar 01 17:11:04 my wife is mean Mar 01 17:11:13 out of memory :) Mar 01 17:11:22 she took your N900? Mar 01 17:11:26 apparently if I have time to rewrite my expenses spreadsheet using SQL then I've got time to clean the cooker... :( Mar 01 17:11:50 does she know what sql is Mar 01 17:11:53 she's got a point :) Mar 01 17:11:54 oh yes Mar 01 17:12:03 I know.... annoying isn't it Mar 01 17:12:15 does she know how much you spend :P Mar 01 17:12:28 she runs the finances... Mar 01 17:12:46 then why are YOU making a spreadsheet Mar 01 17:12:46 I get an allowance Mar 01 17:12:53 go do something useful Mar 01 17:12:56 it's more fun than cleaning the cooker Mar 01 17:13:00 like cleaning the cooker Mar 01 17:13:03 duh! Mar 01 17:13:07 :D Mar 01 17:13:26 you get allowance from your wife? Mar 01 17:13:40 if I'm good Mar 01 17:13:58 how long did it take you to gather money for the N900 Mar 01 17:13:59 :D Mar 01 17:14:11 summit freebie :) Mar 01 17:14:29 freebie? Mar 01 17:14:31 * Arif_ likes that word Mar 01 17:14:34 lbt: transporation? Mar 01 17:14:45 s/transporation/transportation/ Mar 01 17:14:46 timeless_mbp meant: lbt: transportation? Mar 01 17:14:58 heh .... don't mention that to her :) Mar 01 17:15:26 I live like 10km from where that summit Mar 01 17:15:29 :/ Mar 01 17:15:38 shoulda come... Mar 01 17:15:49 next time eh? Mar 01 17:16:01 I wouldn't get af ree phone :P Mar 01 17:16:05 we're starting to plan for sept 2010 Mar 01 17:16:23 lbt, any locations in particular? Mar 01 17:16:38 TomaszD: up for suggestions atm Mar 01 17:16:47 Istanbul? Mar 01 17:16:58 tmo seems to like Canada. Mar 01 17:17:03 lbt, mrs lbt is very shrewd, you should complain that you cannot risk your poor hands by doing that sort of work. (then duck/run as appropriate) Mar 01 17:17:28 good point mate... I'll try that Mar 01 17:17:34 * pupnik notes "photos" doesnt do .gif anims Mar 01 17:17:42 its been nice knowing you! Mar 01 17:18:03 I'd give you some advice too but I'm not married yet :P Mar 01 17:18:07 ouch Mar 01 17:19:01 you should just buy a new oven! Mar 01 17:20:11 apt-get uninstall oven-grime Mar 01 17:20:31 apt-get autoclean Mar 01 17:20:35 more appropriate, surely Mar 01 17:20:36 you need to update 40 dependancies Mar 01 17:20:36 Canada... this means an 8 hour flight at least, I barely handled 3hrs to Barcelona Mar 01 17:20:41 and downgrade 60 Mar 01 17:20:48 and you're missing 12 Mar 01 17:21:09 have fun finding them manually :D Mar 01 17:24:01 TomaszD: go by ship. Mar 01 17:24:23 TomaszD, 3 hours? :P Mar 01 17:24:38 * GAN900 was in the air for at least 20 all told. Mar 01 17:24:42 lbt: self-cleaningoven. Mar 01 17:25:14 :) Mar 01 17:25:40 -.- http://stuff.moritzg.ch/DSC09984.JPG Mar 01 17:26:05 Canada sounds good to me. Mar 01 17:26:15 keyboard bezel is coming off. Will return it as soon as the shop has a replacement in stock. Doesn't seem to be a common problem Mar 01 17:26:17 GAN900, where did you fly from? Mar 01 17:26:21 We've had two in Europe, time for another location. Mar 01 17:26:30 zaheerm, Tampa, Florida Mar 01 17:26:51 zaheerm, had to drive 4.5 hours to the airport first, tool Mar 01 17:26:56 GAN900, 20 hours seems a lot when there are direct flights to parts of the USA from barcelona... Mar 01 17:27:02 Friday was tough. Mar 01 17:27:12 zaheerm, sure, New York. :P Mar 01 17:27:35 So 3 or so to JFK then about 7 to BCN Mar 01 17:27:53 I vote for Istanbul Mar 01 17:27:54 :P Mar 01 17:28:01 zaheerm, the US is a big goddamn place. :P Mar 01 17:28:02 yah istanbul is an awesome city Mar 01 17:28:12 GAN900, i know i've been many times Mar 01 17:28:36 the 20 hours was a return trip, then..i was thinking one way 20 hours is a lot of time to be in the air Mar 01 17:28:56 did someone say "trip"? Mar 01 17:29:16 hi guys, anyone know how i can insert pause into my dial string? , doesnt seem to work Mar 01 17:37:50 I guys I woman just got the N900 (I dont know who advised her to) and now she is having issues using the ussd codes with her phone. I am trying to help her by using the ussd-widget but I cant figure out how it works.. any help? Mar 01 17:39:18 it looks like the n900 is for real men (c) :p Mar 01 17:39:35 add the widget Mar 01 17:39:38 and go to the settings Mar 01 17:39:43 enter a number Mar 01 17:39:45 and press it? Mar 01 17:40:22 Sorry can I ask you something about the eMMC flashing of a N900? Mar 01 17:40:40 I really need your help Mar 01 17:40:45 what about it? Mar 01 17:41:29 I've been up all night trying to find a way to flash this tablet and clear its internal memory Mar 01 17:41:40 Jaffa: good post about the extras distribution change Mar 01 17:41:50 and I always get this waiting thing Mar 01 17:42:22 and that theres no suitable device Mar 01 17:42:47 West, that's normal Mar 01 17:42:58 did you try turning the N900 of and then plugging it into USB? Mar 01 17:43:02 s/of/off/ Mar 01 17:43:03 mgedmin meant: did you try turning the N900 off and then plugging it into USB? Mar 01 17:43:16 yes I did that Mar 01 17:43:22 if you do that while flasher is waiting, everything else should Just Work Mar 01 17:43:25 thats the first thing i did to be honest Mar 01 17:43:32 Arif_: I tried that and it just gave an error msg :( Mar 01 17:43:34 it did for me when I flashed the rootfs and then the eMMC Mar 01 17:43:38 it just said error Mar 01 17:43:45 tell her to wait for a new fw Mar 01 17:43:46 :D Mar 01 17:43:47 some people also suggest holding down some key Mar 01 17:43:54 I forget which -- 'u' perhaps? Mar 01 17:44:26 maybe this will help... I was trying to clear my micoSD with disk utility Mar 01 17:44:36 u, yeah Mar 01 17:44:37 and I hit the device by accident Mar 01 17:44:58 cleared it Mar 01 17:44:59 now its just a mass storage formatted in FAT Mar 01 17:45:03 Arif_: my ussd for checking balance for my carrier is *556# I entered that as value to the Ussd Number field and it didnt seem to work :( Mar 01 17:45:25 Arif_: i cant seem to find any user friendly documentation on the issue Mar 01 17:45:35 blame the creator :P Mar 01 17:45:38 so everytime I plug it in Mar 01 17:45:57 by the way, pr1.2 also impoves ussd support to some degree Mar 01 17:46:05 improve? Mar 01 17:46:11 there IS no ussd support Mar 01 17:46:27 well, improves in the sense that it adds partial, but not full support Mar 01 17:46:35 I blame Nokia for missing out on such a basic functionality in the first place.. the creator of the Ussd was just trying to help out Mar 01 17:46:37 konttori, post? Mar 01 17:46:40 will it say "Not supported" instead of "invalid number"? Mar 01 17:46:54 West, is the flashing utility running when you plug in USB cable? Mar 01 17:47:00 lol. It'll be more than that. Mar 01 17:47:12 "the creator of the ussd codes was just trying to help out" -- nice quote heh :) Mar 01 17:47:21 yes and i hold down u when i plug it in Mar 01 17:47:24 not that I care myself, as I never use ussd, so, that's why I don't remember the level of 'partial' either Mar 01 17:47:32 West, what OS are you running the flashing utility on? Mar 01 17:47:40 konttori, maybe it's send-only without receive? :P Mar 01 17:48:20 windows vista Mar 01 17:48:25 64bit? Mar 01 17:48:31 oh, get real ;) Mar 01 17:48:32 ultimate? Mar 01 17:48:38 West, have you ever flashed anything successfully? Mar 01 17:48:55 yea i flashed with the other .bin file Mar 01 17:49:05 i just can't get this eMMC Mar 01 17:49:15 konttori: well good for you.. lots of people use it.. especially many on pay as you go.. I have learned to live with it.. but its just pisses me when I see a poor average user suffer for the lack of such a basic functionality Mar 01 17:49:41 konttori: do you have a spare n900 you could to use some battery rundown tests using mplayer driving the kernel alsa sound device directly? i can give you the command line (bypassing P,A) Mar 01 17:49:44 ~flashing Mar 01 17:49:45 i heard flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware Mar 01 17:49:47 sure, I agree. And I just wanted to voice out that there has been work to that end. Mar 01 17:50:46 if it helps... its stuck on the second circle of when its normally loads up Mar 01 17:50:56 like the loading animation Mar 01 17:51:02 it would be most useful if you did it using the same files as the other tests Mar 01 17:51:03 it just stays there forever Mar 01 17:52:17 I just don't know what to do Mar 01 17:52:36 I just don't know what to do Mar 01 17:52:53 west, when i do flashing, i take battery out, plug in the usb cable (direct, no hub), start flasher and when it says "waiting for device" i plug in the battery Mar 01 17:52:57 Follow the instructions on the wiki? Mar 01 17:53:15 i'll try that lcuk Mar 01 17:53:28 and gan900... seriously... I've been there all night Mar 01 17:54:17 How about Nokia just makes a freaking announcement about N900 support. . . . Mar 01 17:54:18 ah, I digged now the details of the USSD support. Fremantle will only support unstructured supplementary services as the 'supported' level. There is a way to enable the rest as well. Mar 01 17:54:44 If you don't want people to complain then don't make them operate in a vacuum. . . . Mar 01 17:54:57 vacuum sucks Mar 01 17:55:09 oh, they made an announcement. they said "no". Mar 01 17:55:13 konttori, which post about Extras? Mar 01 17:55:35 All of the FUD seems to be coming from Nokia. Mar 01 17:55:40 then again I'm not sure about he knew what he was talking about (or more appropiately, to WHOM he was talking to, and the large amount of pitchforks they had) Mar 01 17:55:59 They really don't seem to care about poisoning communities, however. Mar 01 17:56:19 GAN900: what are you talking about? Mar 01 17:56:26 javispedro: ever play secret maryo world ? Mar 01 17:56:34 konttori, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=550967#post550967 Mar 01 17:57:06 pupnik: nope, but seen it Mar 01 17:57:15 humm... so, what's the fud of meego? Mar 01 17:57:31 so tried the battery in thing and it still gives me the "no suitable" thing Mar 01 17:57:45 bah, are you using a hub Mar 01 17:57:57 define hub? Mar 01 17:58:07 cuz i don't think so Mar 01 17:58:08 West: you said you were able to flash the rootfs/normal fw but not the emmc? Mar 01 17:58:20 yea thats it javi Mar 01 17:58:21 konttori: People are still running around like headless chickens (and haven't stopped panicing to have time to sift through blogs/tmo) after the initial "Maemo.org will be closed!!! Everybody join meego.com quick!" press release ;) Mar 01 17:58:32 it's pretty simple. considering n900 will have qt4.6 in pr1.2 along with the declarative support, and will get common web runtime support as well as qt mobility in summer(ish) release, it will be meego compliant in the way devices should. Mar 01 17:58:34 West: since you only "erased" the MyDocs partition just reflashing the normal fw should work. Mar 01 17:58:52 what? Who said that maemo.org site will be closed? Mar 01 17:59:26 I wish that were true javi... but the phone still just shows up as a random mass storage unit Mar 01 17:59:37 no files... nothing Mar 01 17:59:43 the device that is Mar 01 17:59:50 it does not boot. Mar 01 17:59:56 it does Mar 01 17:59:58 konttori, that's how normal people read the marketing-language in the press release, unfortunately Mar 01 18:00:08 its boots, starts up Mar 01 18:00:18 West: ah, so you're asking for the default MyDocs files then? Mar 01 18:00:25 anyway, maemo 5 will be perfectly viable development device for meego stuff. And should be able to run also meego stuff (except multitouch - which I still think is only a gimmick for everything else, but virtual kb) Mar 01 18:00:27 i guess so Mar 01 18:00:34 true factory reset i guess Mar 01 18:00:55 and i want to clear the contacts, calender... everything Mar 01 18:01:59 maybe flasher has some "if (fiasco image matches connected device) { } else { keep on searching device }" logic? Mar 01 18:02:10 konttori, I wonder if I filed a RFE for t.m.o. to have a shortcut button to post a "don't panic" message in big friendly letters, would reggie implement it? :) Mar 01 18:02:17 not to mention that OVI suite doesn't recognise it Mar 01 18:02:27 nor does NSU Mar 01 18:02:35 ShadowJK: tell qgil to end all his posts with that :) Mar 01 18:02:39 west try a different usb plug Mar 01 18:02:45 lol ShadowJK ! Mar 01 18:02:57 konttori, problem is, there are a lot of issues with the base system that are starting to be marked for Harmattan. Mar 01 18:03:04 and it doesn't recognise the 32GB as a drive Mar 01 18:03:13 these are all the issues i'm having Mar 01 18:03:19 GAN900: mobility API is there to abstract the differences Mar 01 18:03:26 konttori, so API application compatibility is really not what people are concerned about Mar 01 18:03:33 It's a red herring Mar 01 18:03:43 the idea is that for most app developers it abstracts even the difference of developing for S60 or maemo Mar 01 18:03:54 GAN900: the what? Mar 01 18:03:59 moo, javispedro, lcuk, konttori, GAN Mar 01 18:04:06 ... but you still have to package it for s60, maemo, (and in the future) meego! Mar 01 18:04:09 hey RST38h \o Mar 01 18:04:09 moo RST38h Mar 01 18:04:19 konttori, people don't care about API compatibility Mar 01 18:04:23 javispedro: sure. except if you make a web runtime app. Mar 01 18:04:27 GAN: I do. Mar 01 18:04:30 Finnish friends came by to visit, second day in a row of drinking, wish me luck... Mar 01 18:04:39 javispedro, easy way round that, installation direct from git repository :D Mar 01 18:04:39 GAN: And yes, out of purely practical reasons Mar 01 18:04:43 man Mar 01 18:04:48 GAN900: so, you mean then ABI compatibility? Mar 01 18:04:59 konttori, they care about having the new features in Harmattan on N900 Mar 01 18:05:07 What about Theme Devs we have to learn a whole new thing everytime UI changes I say programmers have it easy :) Mar 01 18:05:26 * microlith boggles as modest cripples his N900 Mar 01 18:05:34 humm... so... that would be the kind of issue I won't touch on a public forum with a ten foot pole. Mar 01 18:05:52 Andrewfblack, nahhh if you think its bad modifying your themes, think about the hard dedicated work we put in every single day to find new ways to break them! Mar 01 18:05:53 no one wants to touch it :) Mar 01 18:05:57 I am pretty open about many things, but not when it comes to harmattan Mar 01 18:06:44 lcuk: better not be finding ways to break them :) Mar 01 18:06:51 I can tell you that it may or may not happen. That's the extend of it. Mar 01 18:07:01 Andrewfblack, jesting of course dude Mar 01 18:07:01 konttori, so a lot of handwaving about API compatibility really doesn't make anybody feel better about Nokia turning the N900 in another 770. Mar 01 18:07:04 and tbh tmo easily makes an enormous fuss about it too quickly. Mar 01 18:07:34 lcuk: I know just messing with you Mar 01 18:07:36 konttori, not asking you to say anything on it. Mar 01 18:07:49 GAN900: humm... yeah, I won't comment as you guessed. Mar 01 18:08:18 * andrewfblack_ is still looking for more programmers to help with his theme customization program...http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=45964 Mar 01 18:08:24 konttori, just hoping you understand why people are upset and why Qt 4.6 is not really a be-all end-all answer to the FUD. :) Mar 01 18:08:32 so i tried all 4 of my USB ports Mar 01 18:08:41 all the same product Mar 01 18:09:12 Somebody really needs to corner a responsible party and beat a straight answer out of them. Mar 01 18:09:28 I even took a screen shot of where i get to Mar 01 18:09:33 The poison the business people continually inject into the community is getting out of hand. Mar 01 18:09:35 GAN900: I still don't understand. Mar 01 18:09:52 please... i've been up all night.. Mar 01 18:10:01 West, go on, post screenie Mar 01 18:10:10 you shouldv come and tried before Mar 01 18:10:46 btw, what happens if you powerup and plug usb in - does it start chargingask for the mode "mass storage/pc suite" Mar 01 18:10:51 well I did Mar 01 18:11:28 pics tho Mar 01 18:12:48 konttori, there are a lot of issues in Fremantle and a lot of fixes for them as well as new things in Harmattam Mar 01 18:12:54 *n Mar 01 18:13:19 sure. And we are working like mad in improving fremantle as much as possible Mar 01 18:13:24 one sec Mar 01 18:13:39 * javispedro has recently filed two b.m.o bugs to backport some trivial tracker fixes from harmattan Mar 01 18:13:57 *n Mar 01 18:14:07 konttori, so when somebody says "Will we get Harmattan on N900?" and somebody answers "Well, we have API compatibility." that's not an answer Mar 01 18:14:10 * lcuk gives javispedro a round of applause Mar 01 18:14:27 GAN900: I didn't hear the question right then the first time Mar 01 18:14:34 * javispedro is happy because two bugs he also not-so-recently filed were fixed in pr1.2 :) Mar 01 18:14:38 if I had, I would have answered directly: no comment Mar 01 18:15:44 javispedro: that's good to hear. even though, maemo.org bugzilla is still not the one we are actively looking at. We have been having so much internally known issues that we have still focused mostly on those. We plan to switch direction in a weeks time Mar 01 18:15:44 konttori, but that's the answer a lot of Nokia people have been bringing Mar 01 18:15:59 so, immediately when pr1.2 is solid. (yeah, it still needs work) Mar 01 18:16:02 konttori, so this is addressing Quim's post on tmo. Mar 01 18:16:26 Really, though, I don't care much anymore. Mar 01 18:16:46 Hey, could someone clear to me this: Does there come anymore updates to maemo 5? Mar 01 18:16:48 * RST38h actually thanked Quim's post, but doubts it will make any difference =( Mar 01 18:16:54 sorry for the delay Mar 01 18:17:00 iPeter: yes. Mar 01 18:17:05 had some trouble with the account Mar 01 18:17:13 which post RST38h Mar 01 18:17:21 on maemo.org Mar 01 18:17:31 the thread is called N900 Internal Memory Corrupted by Mac. Please Help Mar 01 18:17:36 "N900 Internal Memory Corrupted by Mac. Please Help" Mar 01 18:17:36 Nokia doesn't want me as a customer, so I don't see much reason to invest time. Mar 01 18:17:47 RST38h, I didn't. Mar 01 18:17:48 RST38h: So that meego wont mess it up? Do you know is there coming some bigger update soon, since lastest was only 16.2mb Mar 01 18:18:05 West, did you know the internet allows these things called hyperlinks Mar 01 18:18:07 ! Mar 01 18:18:14 .... Mar 01 18:18:18 yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeea Mar 01 18:18:21 iPteter: You are asking too much Mar 01 18:18:22 I forgot Mar 01 18:18:27 RST38h, he should spend less time trying to reason with TMO and more time explaining to the business people why they're idiot. Mar 01 18:18:32 RST38h: Ofc i'am :D Mar 01 18:18:39 >< Mar 01 18:18:49 GAN: I am tired explaining to business people why they are idiots =( Mar 01 18:19:25 GAN: Does not work. Even a working example of Apple *and* Google supporting their past customers does not fucking work. Mar 01 18:19:26 but my lack of knowledge asside Mar 01 18:19:29 there it is Mar 01 18:19:33 javispedro: yeh. We'll definitely merge those patches Mar 01 18:19:45 javispedro: https://bugs.maemo.org/buglist.cgi?quicksearch=9317%2C9316 Mar 01 18:19:46 so please please PLEASe give me a hand Mar 01 18:20:09 I can only hide so much rum in my coffee =P Mar 01 18:20:17 RST38h, so Nokia and I go our separate ways and the whole world weeps for what might've been. :rolleyes: Mar 01 18:20:26 konttori: ta! :) Mar 01 18:20:41 javispedro: but cannot do it for pr1.2 anymore :( Mar 01 18:21:05 please help me figure out whats going on with my phone Mar 01 18:21:09 N900 Internal Memory Corrupted by Mac. Please Help Mar 01 18:21:15 thats where it is Mar 01 18:21:17 * GAN900 loves Ari's neverending streams of non-answers. Mar 01 18:21:26 on the maemo.org site Mar 01 18:23:39 konttori: np, since tracker is oss Mar 01 18:23:47 GAN900: has he said something new? Mar 01 18:24:04 konttori, the talk link I posted. Mar 01 18:24:06 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=550967#post550967 Mar 01 18:24:17 west, give me a link to the thread you seem to be having so much trouble with Mar 01 18:24:21 Er, Ari I was just speaking generally Mar 01 18:24:23 Sorry Mar 01 18:24:37 javispedro: yeah. would make sense to take the new tracker to fremantle as well. Mar 01 18:24:44 N900 Internal Memory Corrupted by Mac. Please Help Mar 01 18:24:49 it's so much cleaner design. Mar 01 18:24:56 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=551092#post551092 Mar 01 18:25:10 we basically tore it apart for the 0.7 branch. I'm really happy how it turned out. Mar 01 18:25:20 (for the harmattan version) Mar 01 18:25:41 GAN900: ah, yeah, indeed, ari isn't commenting on that thread Mar 01 18:26:17 West, the device is identified Mar 01 18:26:22 its just not doing its stuff beyond that Mar 01 18:27:04 identified *stupidest question ever* Mar 01 18:27:07 ??? Mar 01 18:27:20 i don't understand the context Mar 01 18:27:38 "Found device RX-51, hardware revision 2101" is in the log you posted Mar 01 18:27:46 it then goes on to do further things Mar 01 18:27:47 It sees the N900, but the "Suitable USB device not found, waiting" message is confusing Mar 01 18:28:08 I know but even while i've been talking to you... its still there Mar 01 18:28:28 hmm Mar 01 18:28:32 i know, but this is a different issue than not just finding the device Mar 01 18:28:43 does the flasher handle the eMMC via the linux Mass storage export mode? Mar 01 18:28:45 how long ago did you flash your main firmware Mar 01 18:28:55 last night Mar 01 18:29:02 ok Mar 01 18:29:09 can you just confirm again that that still happens Mar 01 18:29:21 so we can be 100% sure that the usb connection "works" Mar 01 18:29:27 and that this problem is something else Mar 01 18:29:28 konttori, wish somebody on the business end would. Mar 01 18:29:31 * pupnik wonders who will first wear out rx-51 kbd Mar 01 18:29:36 you! Mar 01 18:30:00 thumbs are cleaner now lcuk - we will see Mar 01 18:30:02 pupnik, I heard someone had already worn off the symbols Mar 01 18:30:03 ok i'll do that and shout when its done Mar 01 18:30:08 ok west Mar 01 18:33:42 GAN900, maybe someone needs to say "Hey guys you might've guessed but some time ago we formed a new team to sit in the Nokia basement and tinker on a new future operating system, and we decided to go hang out with nerds in Intel's basement and going to work with them to make this new awesome MeeGo thing. The usual Maemo 5 team will of course continue working as before at polishing and making Maemo 5 perfect, and we're also going to make it MeeGo compatibl Mar 01 18:33:51 e!" Mar 01 18:34:07 eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.... Mar 01 18:35:05 it still says my device memory card is still corrupted Mar 01 18:35:16 ShadowJK: your plain fails to account that: people want the NEW, LATEST thing no matter what. Mar 01 18:35:23 lol Mar 01 18:35:27 yeah I guess Mar 01 18:35:31 javis: not necessarily Mar 01 18:35:31 there's only one real solution: not to say a thing. Mar 01 18:35:39 which is something I don't like. Mar 01 18:35:47 West, thats not what i asked. did it connect to usb, flash ok, then boot properly to a new cleanly flashed device Mar 01 18:36:00 one step at a time Mar 01 18:36:06 ok my appologise Mar 01 18:36:09 * frals runs around in panic screaming "gitorious is down" Mar 01 18:36:11 javispedro, there's also the repeated feeling of abandonment, people think nokia abandoned all maemo work ;) Mar 01 18:36:17 * RST38h will own a decent pair of headphones for the first time in his life Mar 01 18:36:24 RST38h, oh? Mar 01 18:36:26 Wondering how it will feel =) Mar 01 18:36:40 probably "oh... :/" Mar 01 18:36:46 'simply saying "Please don't talk about our embarrassing lack of communication" doesn't actually solve the problem' Mar 01 18:36:49 QFT Mar 01 18:36:52 ShadowJK: as in disappointment? :) Mar 01 18:37:14 RST38h, what headphones? Mar 01 18:37:20 same question I wanted to ask :) Mar 01 18:37:20 wiretapped: Actually, there is no need for communication here Mar 01 18:37:26 RST38h, just think, now you will be able to hear the defects in the mp3 + compressed bt stream + bad singers etc Mar 01 18:37:28 ShadowJK: BH905 Mar 01 18:37:33 sometimes having better is not good :D Mar 01 18:37:34 bah Mar 01 18:37:38 lcuk: Naah I am tone deaf =) Mar 01 18:37:39 ShadowJK, problem is, the Maemo 5 team is mostly with the nerds in the basement. Mar 01 18:37:46 RST38h: where? on the issue of the N900's future?! Mar 01 18:37:51 lol RST38h i thought i was blind until i saw porn in hd Mar 01 18:37:53 GAN900, yeah sure, but that makes them the more awesomer Mar 01 18:38:03 now i wish i was Mar 01 18:38:05 wirtetapped: All you need to do is create a credible record of supporting existing devices Mar 01 18:38:20 RST38h: right. which they've done the exact opposite of. Mar 01 18:38:32 wiretapped: Once you do that (like Apple or Google did), people will stop wondering whether their gadget world will end the moment a new gadget is introduced Mar 01 18:38:42 Puff! PR problem gone! Mar 01 18:38:43 so, the safe bet is on them not supporting the N900. and if they would just communicate that that is the case, we could all stfu and move on Mar 01 18:38:43 I hate that Nokia decides to put the emergency brakes on all of their current community inertia with each update. Mar 01 18:39:03 RST38h, I haven't heard, but I thought the a2dp SBC encoding disqualified all bluetooth solutions from being "decent" Mar 01 18:39:20 lcuk: Porn in HD probably looks uncomfortable Mar 01 18:39:23 RST38h: I miss the "but don't actually support existing devices" part. Mar 01 18:39:36 its completed with no problems lcuk Mar 01 18:39:42 yes as i bet mp3s through bluetooth sound on excellent headphones Mar 01 18:39:43 and active noise cancelation.. ew :/ Mar 01 18:39:46 ok west Mar 01 18:39:52 * Arif_ burps Mar 01 18:39:52 so you are not having usb problems Mar 01 18:39:53 ShadowJK: Dunno, I tried BH504 at the Nokia flagship store, with X6 Mar 01 18:40:00 you are having eMMC problems Mar 01 18:40:03 ShadowJK: They are very decent Mar 01 18:40:07 thanks for confirming Mar 01 18:40:15 * lcuk now moves to next thing Mar 01 18:40:19 thank you for your time btw Mar 01 18:40:42 ShadowJK: So, I guess things should work reasonably well, at least for MP3s Mar 01 18:40:46 RST38h, admit it, you only want them because marina has them Mar 01 18:41:05 if it's anything near cheap I'll get them. Mar 01 18:41:07 hola Mar 01 18:41:10 ShadowJK: Also BH905 has optional wires and the noise cancellation is optional too Mar 01 18:41:11 Hi Mar 01 18:41:13 ok West now, where did you get the instructions for flashing the emmc and what documentation are you following (use those hyperlink things and be specific please) Mar 01 18:41:16 use wired headphones? Mar 01 18:41:22 javis: Amazon offers them for $200, reasonably cheap Mar 01 18:41:32 ShadowJK: Who is Marina? =) Mar 01 18:41:45 200 for headphones? Mar 01 18:41:45 uuuh. Mar 01 18:41:46 lol Mar 01 18:41:52 * Arif_ runs away Mar 01 18:41:57 can somebody tell me what pluging should I use to have Facebook integrated with my contacts and conversations?? Mar 01 18:41:59 here it is lcuk: Mar 01 18:41:59 Arif: List price is [[prepare] $400 Mar 01 18:41:59 http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_firmware Mar 01 18:42:09 pff Mar 01 18:42:12 I got my N900 for 400 Mar 01 18:42:13 Arif: Street price is $300. Mar 01 18:42:14 * javispedro runs away too. first looks at its current $5 headphones, then keeps running. Mar 01 18:42:15 Arif_, yeah certainly they wont be as awesome as Sennheiser's Orpheus headphones at $10,000 :P Mar 01 18:42:24 Is there any application (plugin) to get desktop icons on same line, like "snap to grid" or something. Mar 01 18:42:42 iPeter: Tweakr Mar 01 18:43:26 Arif_: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000P6M6HY Mar 01 18:43:36 ShadowJK if you have too much money my bank account is always open for donations Mar 01 18:43:37 :D Mar 01 18:44:08 ShadowJK: Oh. Mar 01 18:44:19 is that ok? Mar 01 18:44:43 http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f103/soundmagic-pl-50-released-received-reviewed-430612/ Mar 01 18:44:46 West, I was reading that earlier and noticed the instructions had two lines that said "Insert USB CAble" or similar... thought htat was odd :) Mar 01 18:44:47 I got these :P Mar 01 18:44:47 yes west, just confirming all the bits Mar 01 18:45:13 * frals bashes head against the desk Mar 01 18:45:14 once again... thank you for your time lcuk Mar 01 18:45:22 Arif_, cool, balanced armature Mar 01 18:45:22 got a bug report "hey my message list isnt scrolling" Mar 01 18:45:40 turns out, it does scroll, but appearently not as smooth as the list in addressbook... >-< Mar 01 18:45:48 smoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooth!!! Mar 01 18:45:52 west how did you get it into this state in the first place Mar 01 18:45:58 THIS. HAS. TO. BE. SMOOOOOOOOOOOOOOTH!! Mar 01 18:46:10 cos people dont normally need to reflash the emmc much Mar 01 18:46:18 ShadowJK, you put them on weird though Mar 01 18:46:19 :( Mar 01 18:46:43 frals, im afraid javispedro is right Mar 01 18:46:57 oh and I don't know what armature means :blush: Mar 01 18:47:11 Arif_, well it's not normal speaker tech Mar 01 18:47:28 Arif_, looks like they're designed to have the wire loop around the ear? Mar 01 18:47:29 lcuk: :( Mar 01 18:47:30 lcuk: actually I was in tmo mode :), but hey, we know you're the local smoothness expert :) Mar 01 18:47:37 yeah Mar 01 18:48:09 * Arif_ thinks they sound pretty good Mar 01 18:48:13 need to dump python at some point to make it smooooooooooooooooooth ;< Mar 01 18:48:22 In-ear headphones suck though Mar 01 18:48:34 frals: There is no better time than RIGHT NOW Mar 01 18:48:47 RST38h, normal ones fall out of my ears all the time Mar 01 18:48:53 yo ucan still use python, but emcapusalte the whole thing inside a single function inline optimized asm blob Mar 01 18:48:53 frals: And drop python from that app for sending #xxxx* numbers too Mar 01 18:49:01 pluged my n900 into my macbook pro. I was using disk utility to try and work out a reading problem I was having with the microSD. Clicked the wrong device. Set the format to FAT (MS-DOS) and formatted the phone memory. Noticing my error... I canceled the format quickly. but the bar was already 1/8th of the way through by the time i clicked it. Mar 01 18:49:01 feck Mar 01 18:49:08 Arif: I can say the same about in-ears =( Mar 01 18:49:14 lol lcuk Mar 01 18:49:17 * Jaffa unfoods. Mar 01 18:49:23 Normal ones could be okay for me if I could make them stay in ear, and make them stay pushed against the earcanal so that sound doesn't leak out Mar 01 18:49:30 RST38h: that stuff isnt mine at least ;D Mar 01 18:49:41 RST38h: Thanks alot of the tip, (: Mar 01 18:49:46 frals: Ah, good reason to copy it though =) Mar 01 18:50:01 West, that sounds like an intelligent thing to do Mar 01 18:50:01 RST38h, they only fit well with the biggest piece thingies Mar 01 18:50:06 * Arif_ has big ears Mar 01 18:50:11 * Arif_ has big everything :P Mar 01 18:50:38 * javispedro ponders why his amazon's "personalized" front page is full of unlocked n900 Mar 01 18:50:39 maybe that's why I can't use the N900 keyboard properly :hmmm: Mar 01 18:50:41 west in the device itself (unplug everytihng take out memory card) Mar 01 18:50:44 unquestionably... and hence i come to the ones that know more then me Mar 01 18:50:45 what actually works Mar 01 18:50:52 ok Mar 01 18:51:01 javispedro, there are locked N900s? Mar 01 18:51:12 Is there any way to disable that when you open lens cover, camera app starts? Mar 01 18:51:14 done Mar 01 18:51:33 Arif_: dunno, but that does prevent amazon.com from from using the "unlocked" word. Mar 01 18:51:40 :d Mar 01 18:51:42 s/does prevent/does not prevent, s/from from/from Mar 01 18:51:44 did you buy one? Mar 01 18:52:07 god no. Mar 01 18:52:39 took the memory card out Mar 01 18:53:45 fuckin hell Mar 01 18:53:50 not too pleased with ubuntu right now Mar 01 18:53:58 plugged in ethernet cable and touchpad stopped working Mar 01 18:54:06 lol Mar 01 18:54:11 clearly, a wizard did it. Mar 01 18:54:13 only on Linux! Mar 01 18:54:34 not quite Mar 01 18:54:39 Happens to me a lot on windows too Mar 01 18:54:46 * ShadowJK blames NotWorkManager Mar 01 18:55:19 there is such a manager? Mar 01 18:55:24 NetworkManager Mar 01 18:55:47 I call it NotworkManager, because that's what it usually does on my computers Mar 01 18:55:50 ShadowJK, whats wrong with NM ? Mar 01 18:56:07 works very well in Fedora Mar 01 18:56:19 wind00s ftw Mar 01 18:56:34 Can you tell me how to make it not overwrite /etc/resolv.conf with crap? Or alternatively, how to make it write the crap I want there? Mar 01 18:56:37 :P Mar 01 18:57:07 lcuk? Mar 01 18:57:13 you still there? Mar 01 18:57:19 use selinux to prevent it from writing the file Mar 01 18:58:18 what actually works Mar 01 18:58:27 hmm Mar 01 18:58:44 why does windows setup always prompt you to restart with every install Mar 01 18:58:45 :D Mar 01 18:58:58 although I don't think formatting the vfat partition would have that much of an impact on the entire emmc device from a flashing point of view... but who knows :/ Mar 01 18:59:06 I mean, /home is still intact even after that, right.. Mar 01 18:59:09 west, open file manager Mar 01 18:59:20 ShadowJK: that's what I'm thinking too. Mar 01 18:59:21 yes Mar 01 18:59:24 done Mar 01 18:59:24 and see whats listed (without your good mmc still plugged in Mar 01 18:59:39 longtap on the possibly corrupted item and see if you can format it from there Mar 01 18:59:54 "no files/folders Mar 01 18:59:58 " Mar 01 19:00:15 literally nothing except that Mar 01 19:00:36 ok, i cant do anything more from gui :$ Mar 01 19:00:45 and i know nothing about how to try reformatting from console Mar 01 19:01:10 you have goosed your mydocs by reformatting it in your mac Mar 01 19:01:14 or partially Mar 01 19:01:23 ah Mar 01 19:01:41 so you think it's failing to boot in mmc flash mode because the mydocs partition is weirdly hosed? Mar 01 19:01:49 im not sure Mar 01 19:01:52 I don't know why it would care Mar 01 19:01:54 but we confirmed usb "works" Mar 01 19:01:59 we confirmed the device is seen Mar 01 19:02:02 we know it boots Mar 01 19:02:09 ShadowJK: i'm used to stuff like that from palm devices at least. Mar 01 19:02:23 the problem does appear to manifest when entering boot mode Mar 01 19:02:31 bugs like those were ... awfully common. Mar 01 19:02:31 err flash mode Mar 01 19:02:40 so Mar 01 19:02:47 if you want to flash the MyDocs partition Mar 01 19:02:49 something like that Mar 01 19:03:18 rootsh mkfatfs /dev/mmcblk0p2 would work Mar 01 19:03:43 mkfs.vfat ? Mar 01 19:03:51 symlink to mkfatfs iirc. Mar 01 19:04:18 * javispedro just shut down the n900 minutes ago and now has to boot it back :( Mar 01 19:04:36 why would you shut it off Mar 01 19:04:53 mkdosfs, but executing it as mkfs.vfat tells it to create a vfat file system Mar 01 19:05:12 there's no actual difference Mar 01 19:05:22 from a formatting app PoV Mar 01 19:05:32 ok so theres nothing i can do? Mar 01 19:05:36 so flashing was pretty easy when you used linux instead of win7 x64 Mar 01 19:05:36 * javispedro bangs head Mar 01 19:06:15 so theres nothing at all>? Mar 01 19:06:22 everything is easy if you use linux instead of windows Mar 01 19:06:28 except for gaming, maybe Mar 01 19:06:30 btw the actual partition is /dev/mmcblk0p1 Mar 01 19:06:50 actually i like windows so i can see outside without getting cold Mar 01 19:07:18 i tried having linux up behind my curtains but it didnt keep the rain out Mar 01 19:07:29 lcuk: so should I give the guy cmd line MyDocs partitions formatting instructions? Mar 01 19:07:43 lol lcuk Mar 01 19:08:04 well since i wouldnt understand them either i dont think it will do much good Mar 01 19:08:36 west Mar 01 19:08:44 since you have already formatted iwtht mac Mar 01 19:08:50 what happens if you plug it in again Mar 01 19:08:54 does it give option to format still? Mar 01 19:09:01 oh, it's (relatively) easy. just install rootsh from app mgr, type "rootsh mkfatfs /dev/mmcblk0p1" Mar 01 19:09:11 "just" is a big step for some people Mar 01 19:11:52 mkdosfs not mkfatfs Mar 01 19:12:00 ah, thanks ShadowJK Mar 01 19:12:16 * ShadowJK 'd use mkfs.vfat anyway Mar 01 19:12:49 vfat vs fat is nearly the same. the only thing that matters here is 16 vs 32. Mar 01 19:13:02 but since this is just temporary to get it to reflash (I hope) Mar 01 19:14:29 i wonder if we could get more security from a chrooted browser? Mar 01 19:14:46 lol? Mar 01 19:14:51 pupnik Mar 01 19:14:56 you gem of gems Mar 01 19:15:05 sorry if that is funny Mar 01 19:18:14 is there maybe something i can do in xterminal? Mar 01 19:18:35 West: for now I suggest you repeat the process in disk utility, Mar 01 19:18:39 and let it finish formatting. Mar 01 19:18:53 ok i'll try Mar 01 19:19:21 (then try again to reflash the emmc if you want to get the builtin content) Mar 01 19:20:20 was thing of bsd jails actually, forgot how different linux chroot is Mar 01 19:23:03 Hey guys. I'm running the scratchbox maemo SDK on my x86_64 ArchLinux box and inside a Ubuntu i686 via VirtualBox. I try to use gdbserver with FREMANTLE_ARMEL, but gdbserver tells me ... Mar 01 19:23:05 gdbserver :1234 ./a.out Mar 01 19:23:05 waitpid: No child processes. Mar 01 19:23:05 Exiting Mar 01 19:23:15 is this a known issue? Mar 01 19:23:26 does anyone know where cynaest saves the IMDB files? Mar 01 19:24:28 why would you want to use gdbserver _inside_ scratchbox? Mar 01 19:24:42 because gdb says... Mar 01 19:25:01 gdb ./a.out ... Mar 01 19:25:02 run Mar 01 19:25:19 Starting program: /home/maik/a.out Mar 01 19:25:19 Don't know how to run. Try "help target". Mar 01 19:25:27 don't use the armel target to debug Mar 01 19:25:32 either use the x86 target or a real device Mar 01 19:25:39 (on a real device you can run gdbserver) Mar 01 19:26:04 ok Mar 01 19:27:01 I've done this, it works fine, but I wondered if this is a know issue, because google didn't know about this Mar 01 19:27:49 the armel target is emulated Mar 01 19:28:05 west did you try formatting from your mac Mar 01 19:28:13 yes there are terminal commands but i dont know them Mar 01 19:28:28 its going through right now Mar 01 19:28:36 its formatting? Mar 01 19:29:05 on a side note... is the vanilla eMMC file an image? Mar 01 19:29:12 is it formatting? Mar 01 19:29:17 a "FIASCO" image, yes. Mar 01 19:29:39 ok one sec Mar 01 19:29:45 might have an idea Mar 01 19:29:45 but it needs a bit of work to extract the fat filesystem from it (if it's doable) Mar 01 19:30:40 * lcuk goes nom since west wont answer a question ;) Mar 01 19:31:28 and yes it did Mar 01 19:33:19 west when its finished then does your device come operational again Mar 01 19:33:40 re Mar 01 19:34:13 checking... Mar 01 19:34:20 no Mar 01 19:34:25 it didn't Mar 01 19:34:40 someone know why OGG Vorbis is still totally ignored by anything on maemo5? I even have 'extra decoders' 'ogg vorbis support' etc installed but tracker (after reset of its database) does not index ogg music files Mar 01 19:35:33 hrw: try /usr/lib/tracker/tracker-extract -v3 -f your_music_file.ogg Mar 01 19:35:46 and see what happens and why it's not using the gst plugin to parse it Mar 01 19:37:55 javispedro: log of extract is empty Mar 01 19:38:34 hm.. that shouldn't log, but print to stdout. Mar 01 19:38:54 ah sorry Mar 01 19:38:59 missed a space between "v" and "3" Mar 01 19:40:21 javispedro: http://hrw.pastebin.com/JrTP8dSF Mar 01 19:40:42 so tracker is doing its job :S Mar 01 19:41:29 you even have the vorbis plugin which is not part of the nokia tracker (my guess is that ogg support is packaging it) Mar 01 19:41:59 sure, but mediaplayer still does not list file Mar 01 19:43:19 hm, are by any chance files in MyDocs not executable? Mar 01 19:43:28 chmod +x seems to have no effect Mar 01 19:43:34 MaikB: this is vfat... Mar 01 19:43:36 MyDocs is both mounted noexec and a VFAT filesystem. Mar 01 19:43:43 No, THIS IS SPARTA! Mar 01 19:43:43 ah Mar 01 19:43:47 javispedro: thx! Mar 01 19:43:50 (sorry) Mar 01 19:44:12 javispedro: looks like during night I need to reencode ~1GB of oggs to mpegaudio just to make nokia crap recognize music as music Mar 01 19:44:19 ~curse nokia so called developers Mar 01 19:44:20 May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, nokia so called developers ! Mar 01 19:44:30 hrw: Shouldn't have used Ogg in the first place Mar 01 19:44:32 hrw: dunno, I already reencoded my library to aac. Mar 01 19:44:35 * RST38h cackles evilly Mar 01 19:44:35 hrw: at least you can do that overnight on the phone :) Mar 01 19:44:54 So Nokia has to pay M$ for using FAT, like TomTom and Amazon Mar 01 19:44:55 javis: mp3->aac is pretty useless =) Mar 01 19:45:00 ;) Mar 01 19:45:11 RST38h: oggs works fine on my desktop or on my s60 phone Mar 01 19:45:29 only maemo (os2005/6/8/m5) have problems with it Mar 01 19:45:42 s60 with 3rd party player I guess Mar 01 19:45:48 no Mar 01 19:46:08 but it is discharded now so cant confirm for sure Mar 01 19:46:40 hm, I use ogg all the time on my n900 via some extra package I installed but can't remember the name of it Mar 01 19:46:48 ogg-support Mar 01 19:46:53 yes Mar 01 19:46:54 (apt name) Mar 01 19:46:55 thats it Mar 01 19:47:35 I use apt-(get|cache) most of the time instead of the Prog-Manager Mar 01 19:47:39 :P Mar 01 19:47:43 ogg-support 1.0.6~rc1 installed Mar 01 19:49:23 hrw, dpkg -l *ogg* gives me http://paste.pocoo.org/show/184406/ Mar 01 19:49:26 HTH Mar 01 19:50:48 MaikB: same Mar 01 19:51:08 fwiw, did you restart? Mar 01 19:51:09 odd Mar 01 19:51:43 is there a linux/gtk paste buffer with a preview and multiline history we could port? Mar 01 19:53:41 javispedro: I installed ogg-support long time ago Mar 01 19:53:47 pupnik: that could share automagically over 'tinternet. Mar 01 19:55:30 javispedro: Just for the record, the problem I wanted to debug seems on ARMEL scratchbox only. The program runs fine on the device and sbox-X86. So I guess I should only sb-ARMEL only for compiling Mar 01 19:56:17 SpeedEvil: i do not understand. I would sometimes like to repaste a url i pasted hours earlier Mar 01 19:56:20 pupnik: isn't there already such an toolbar widget? Mar 01 19:56:34 I have faint recollection of seeing something like that on maemo. Mar 01 19:56:50 pupnik: I mean - it might be nice if you had a shared clip between phone and destop Mar 01 19:57:10 MaikB: armel sbox do not have working x11 system so console+building only Mar 01 19:57:43 SpeedEvil: synergy can share cliboard between device and desktop. (and kb and mouse) Mar 01 19:59:26 konttori,pupnik: Such widget exists, for Maemo4 Mar 01 19:59:33 * RST38h has not seen it for Maemo5 Mar 01 19:59:41 hrw, I had another problem. I play with a programming language called falcon ( A dynamic language which allows i.e. UTF8 identifiers for variables and a bunch for programming paradigms). There is so gui involved, but the testing suite just stucks on sbox-ARMEL Mar 01 20:00:08 hrw, I wanted to debug this, but the problem went away when running in on the device Mar 01 20:00:20 that was the full story, bro :D Mar 01 20:00:48 Elite blogger, with admiring readers: http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_m0O2XlVi3Mc/S4waN3nlGII/AAAAAAAACEY/nN4mBFwMEQ0/s1600-h/blogger.jpg Mar 01 20:01:17 ok, so ogg->mp3 or ogg->aac? Mar 01 20:01:24 which you suggest? Mar 01 20:01:52 aac if you have space to spare, mp3 otherwise Mar 01 20:01:53 hm, does the N900 have an hardware MP3 and ACC decoder? Mar 01 20:01:58 MaikB: no Mar 01 20:01:58 or find stuff in the original mp3 Mar 01 20:02:09 MaikB: ithasa DSP, which can do that. Mar 01 20:02:15 MaikB: or much else. Mar 01 20:02:25 RST38h: I have original CDs Mar 01 20:02:45 -rwxrw-r-- 1 hrw hrw 1649723 03-01 21:01 01.aac Mar 01 20:02:45 -rw-r--r-- 1 hrw hrw 2716700 02-02 12:19 01. Waltz in C sharp minor_cis-moll_en ut di?se mineur, Op.64 No.2.ogg Mar 01 20:02:49 SpeedEvil: Ah, so accelerated ( thus battery life saving ) for ogg can be implemented? Mar 01 20:02:52 is it? Mar 01 20:02:54 ssh udd Mar 01 20:02:56 oops Mar 01 20:03:17 mp3 is a bit smaller Mar 01 20:03:35 MaikB: any hw accellerated codec can be implemented. Mar 01 20:03:35 hrw: Ok. Then forget the ogg. Mar 01 20:03:41 hrw: Go with mp3. Mar 01 20:03:41 Findingthe implementor... Mar 01 20:04:04 hrw: Only encode into aac if you are planning on destroying the original CDs Mar 01 20:04:22 flac Mar 01 20:04:25 RST38h: ah, that's probably it then. Well, should be pretty easy to port Mar 01 20:04:48 konttori: not sure: the desktop intgration APIs have changed a lot Mar 01 20:05:06 btw, has anyone of you changed hostname of your n900? i did, but i'm not sure if there aren't some unexpected consequences Mar 01 20:05:06 System plików rozm. użyte dost. %uż. zamont. na Mar 01 20:05:06 //sheevaplug.local/muza/ Mar 01 20:05:06 1,4T 747G 559G 58% /home/hrw/mounts/sheevaplug Mar 01 20:05:18 RST38h: 560GB still free Mar 01 20:05:33 arachnist: in worst situation it will go into rebootloop Mar 01 20:05:45 Why would you want to change it Mar 01 20:05:46 konttori: nasty question can I? Mar 01 20:05:53 sure Mar 01 20:06:03 my n900 uses n900-42.11 as hostname Mar 01 20:06:04 arachnist: ive changed hostname on mine and it seems to work fine Mar 01 20:06:09 MiXu-: because "N900-whatever" doesn't look so personalized Mar 01 20:06:09 dito Mar 01 20:06:18 hrw: yeah? Mar 01 20:06:23 konttori: any date for pr1.2? iirc you said 'this week' 2 weeks ago Mar 01 20:06:24 hey Mar 01 20:06:32 hrw: try unsetting LC_ALL/LANG before pasting things next time. i do understand everything there, but most of people here don't Mar 01 20:06:32 i just picked up an eee701 Mar 01 20:06:38 i'm looking for suggestions for os's for it Mar 01 20:06:46 well, no dates, as a policy. but I can sure tell that it's not this week Mar 01 20:06:50 arachnist: Yeah, but no one but you generally sees it :) Mar 01 20:06:51 hrw: hey not before the media player applet is fixed =) Mar 01 20:06:57 i'd like to run moblin if possible, but if someone knows of an image for Mer or something, i'm open :) Mar 01 20:06:57 I would be surprised if we finish it this week Mar 01 20:07:23 timeless_mbp: well, it has the same screen resolution as the 700/N800/N810/N900 Mar 01 20:07:32 timeless_mbp: not like i'm suggesting anything ;) Mar 01 20:07:53 konttori: I am almost inclined to say that the awesome LED Editor app should be merged into Maemo5 LED Settings =) Mar 01 20:07:57 and it has pretty decent (as mobile devices go) 3d accelerator Mar 01 20:08:02 arachnist: df output is standard ;) Mar 01 20:08:14 RST38h: I do not care about it ;) Mar 01 20:08:33 humm.. led editor? never seen that. Mar 01 20:08:39 * konttori fetches his device Mar 01 20:08:43 konttori: led-pattern-editor Mar 01 20:08:45 konttori: Install it (from the System group) Mar 01 20:08:52 timeless_mbp: might have a funny Mer^2 image for you to play with - it's basically debian5.0 with fremantle x86 stuffed on top Mar 01 20:09:06 Do you guys build .deb's for testing stuff on your device or just copy it over to /home/user/foobar ? Mar 01 20:09:54 Just copy Mar 01 20:09:59 Stskeeps: hit me Mar 01 20:10:10 timeless_mbp: zipping up and uploading Mar 01 20:10:23 Stskeeps: bonus points if it's something i can safely add to an existing n900 mmc :) Mar 01 20:10:28 MaikB: depends Mar 01 20:10:40 timeless_mbp: currently x86 only :P Mar 01 20:10:41 * timeless_mbp doesn't really have lots of random usb volumes available Mar 01 20:10:51 Stskeeps: i don't want to boot my n900 from it Mar 01 20:10:54 * konttori had just flashed a latest and greatest and needs to restore backup (and all applications with it) before continuing. Mar 01 20:10:59 i want to use my n900 as the storage host for the eeepc :) Mar 01 20:11:04 timeless_mbp: ah Mar 01 20:11:15 found it, cinaest uses .cache/cinaest for the databases! Mar 01 20:11:19 it's probably by far my largest usb stick :) Mar 01 20:13:33 A=$PWD;for dir in *;do cd "$dir";for song in *.ogg;do SONG2=`basename "$song" .ogg`.aac; ffmpeg -i "$song" -ab 128k "$SONG2";done;cd "$A";done Mar 01 20:14:07 simple ;D Mar 01 20:14:18 konttori, 3d accelerator in n900 kinda sucks when accelerating 2d gfx (ortho projection, lots of blending, etc) Mar 01 20:14:22 hmm Mar 01 20:14:44 konttori, I especially liked the remarks about not using "discard" in shaders in the spec ;) Mar 01 20:14:50 will we have to wait for rebuilds for all apps in PR1.2 now? Mar 01 20:14:51 o.o Mar 01 20:15:20 hmm... ortho projection should not be an issue in speed afaik. Mar 01 20:15:21 hrw: for dir in */ Mar 01 20:15:22 hrw: ${song%.ogg}.aac Mar 01 20:15:32 but sure, blending comes with penalty Mar 01 20:16:08 konttori, the speed advantage is due to the tiling engine and rendering only the surface that's on the top (ie. closest to camera) Mar 01 20:16:15 zash: $song has spaces inside and this way works Mar 01 20:16:16 exactly Mar 01 20:16:21 SpeedEvil: there are only dirs there Mar 01 20:16:26 konttori, using blending, or discard, forces everything to be rendered Mar 01 20:16:35 hrw: "${song%.ogg}.aac" Mar 01 20:16:35 zash: but thx for hint Mar 01 20:16:39 :D Mar 01 20:16:51 wolf^: well, the whole visible zbuffer Mar 01 20:17:41 konttori, I don't think so Mar 01 20:17:59 wolf^: anyway, sgx isn't exactly desktop level accelerator. Mar 01 20:18:06 konttori, what if you have a solid box with rounded alpha-channel corners Mar 01 20:18:14 konttori, as a one texture Mar 01 20:18:26 konttori, in software I can just memcpy the solid blocks Mar 01 20:18:42 konttori, I don't think that the povervr can do the same and it's doing blending for all of the texture Mar 01 20:18:53 indeed. Mar 01 20:18:55 effectively rendering something that will be never seen Mar 01 20:19:20 zash: I am impressed that it works even with busybox sh Mar 01 20:19:39 yeah, 3d acceleration has it's perks and cons Mar 01 20:19:47 (for 2d that is) Mar 01 20:20:01 hrw: how much bash specific stuff does it have? Mar 01 20:20:33 konttori, good thing that n900 is excellent when it comes to the software rendering performence with xlib Mar 01 20:20:37 * timeless_mbp sighs Mar 01 20:20:48 performance Mar 01 20:21:18 yeah. for example qml is usually just as fast software rendered as it is opengl accelerated. Mar 01 20:22:21 wolf^: what are you working on? Mar 01 20:22:27 konttori, I have a simple test, two parallax scroll layers, quite big sprite, and some triangle rasterizer-based sprites Mar 01 20:22:40 konttori, it's 30 fps software and 20 fps hardware Mar 01 20:22:51 konttori, sorry, can't tell Mar 01 20:22:53 konttori, games ;) Mar 01 20:23:15 for years now I've been reading about Cairo optimization and how their hardware-accelerated backend almost reached the speed of the pure software implementation Mar 01 20:23:44 konttori: kudos for http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=551416&postcount=48 Mar 01 20:24:47 hrw: thanks. I really hope I find some time tomorrow to get it started. Mar 01 20:26:05 wolf^: hmm.. that should be running faster hw accelerated than what you are describing Mar 01 20:26:18 hello. can you please help me install the Transmission bittorrent client for my N900? Mar 01 20:27:12 Does somebody have experience with QPainter performance when used with a QGLWidget? Mar 01 20:27:38 I'm thinking about using this instead of SDL Mar 01 20:27:46 konttori, my software blitter is really optimized :) Mar 01 20:28:11 ah, but still, the 20 fps sounds odd. Are you running in full screen+ Mar 01 20:28:21 (and thus non-composited) Mar 01 20:30:01 hi, is http://talk.maemo.org working reliably for you? I'm able to load pages only at times Mar 01 20:30:12 MaikB: you might want to also ask on #qt-maemo Mar 01 20:30:31 qgil: yeah, works well Mar 01 20:30:34 no issues here Mar 01 20:30:38 evenin' qgil Mar 01 20:30:51 konttori: ah, didn't there is such a thing Mar 01 20:30:58 qgil: how about doing http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=551416&postcount=48 Mar 01 20:31:03 evenin' konttori, Stskeeps, others, too :) Mar 01 20:31:11 evening w00t o/ Mar 01 20:31:23 hey frals! how goes? Mar 01 20:31:37 we could make a plan for at least the 2 releases already now with the highlights onto the roadmap Mar 01 20:31:40 all good here, you? Mar 01 20:31:49 weird, I can connect to this chat but then it seems the access point or something is not being reliable at all with browser (my laptop, my N900 and my partner's laptop...) Mar 01 20:31:56 absolutely fantastic Mar 01 20:32:01 today is a good day :) Mar 01 20:32:08 precisely tonight with the N900 FUD thread running... :) Mar 01 20:32:14 * hrw -> out Mar 01 20:32:18 indeed, just installed my new hd5850 ;D Mar 01 20:32:35 there is a fud thread? (or do you mean the one you started?) Mar 01 20:32:53 konttori: roadmap is a great idea, and I much appreciate your committing to follow it up Mar 01 20:32:59 konttori: you forgot? qgil is master of fud Mar 01 20:33:06 joking of course Mar 01 20:33:14 konttori: the one I started and wanted to start addressing tonight Mar 01 20:33:21 I just don't get why the people are so worried about their N900 being left behind my MeeGo. Its another Linux distribution,yes, but most of the program should just run fine be recompiling them, Mar 01 20:33:42 ah, then I know what you mean. And that link I posted ( http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=551416&postcount=48 ) is related to that Mar 01 20:33:47 Or did I miss something important? Will they stop maintaining kernel drivers or something? Mar 01 20:34:47 konttori: I could read your post and even thank you, now waiting for the next WWW connection cut Mar 01 20:35:27 konttori & co, do you think it's worth starting that wiki page even if the 1M$ question won't be answered there? Mar 01 20:36:01 qgil: hey Mar 01 20:36:05 webchat.freenode.net Mar 01 20:36:13 works great in the browser, even in portrait mode :) Mar 01 20:36:16 qgil: your threads attract an impressive amount of attention :) Mar 01 20:36:43 MaikB: to be fair, nokia's record of supporting old products is hardly stellar Mar 01 20:37:08 and linux kernel is fairly aggressive about ditching modules which lack live maintainers Mar 01 20:37:14 qgil: yes, I do - because even if it ends out with "meego isn't available" (something I find unlikely tbh, there's few technical reasons if any that will be the case), it might help allay fears that n900 is abandoned in any form :P Mar 01 20:37:15 qgil: yeah, I was planning to try to allocate at least an hour tomorrow for it in case I get go ahead (this kind of thing I would want to clear with you and esko and possibly peter) Mar 01 20:37:29 (c.f. android for a recent example, or older nokia devices for slightly less recent examples) Mar 01 20:37:52 * timeless_mbp busy waits on Stskeeps Mar 01 20:38:20 * frals converts timeless_mbp to a monitor instead Mar 01 20:38:42 frals: well, i'm also polling some other things Mar 01 20:38:44 scrub: scrub in progress, 92.83% done, 0h17m to go Mar 01 20:38:58 errors: 419 data errors, use '-v' for a list Mar 01 20:39:01 that's my old hdd Mar 01 20:39:04 timeless_mbp: If read the stories about this. I guess Google decided to stick to an particular kernel version and thus have no interest in maintaining it in upstream Mar 01 20:39:05 it's a bit unhappy :( Mar 01 20:39:22 MaikB: it hardly matters Mar 01 20:39:32 most vendors as vendors do not have infinite time to work upstream Mar 01 20:39:44 nokia has used a handful of kernel versions <<10 Mar 01 20:39:48 hrw is ffmpeg lower cpu use than mplayer -q? Mar 01 20:39:52 timeless_mbp: nobody does, but the deal is to take and give Mar 01 20:40:10 * timeless_mbp ponders Mar 01 20:40:22 however, I guess the kernel does well without android contributions Mar 01 20:40:23 the classic expression is 'give and take' ... Mar 01 20:40:35 I want a directory based superlowbatteryuse media player for toolbar Mar 01 20:41:22 timeless_mbp: The thing that needs love is Xorg. Fortunately Intel invest money and time into it. Mar 01 20:41:31 timeless_mbp: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=551557#post551557 Mar 01 20:41:31 and i think the time is starting wednesday Mar 01 20:41:38 hello Mar 01 20:41:59 Stskeeps: hrm, how do i feed that to my eeepc? Mar 01 20:42:10 * timeless_mbp downloads Mar 01 20:42:33 uploading a tar.gz too now Mar 01 20:43:03 alright Mar 01 20:43:16 need some help with a c++ problem with gtkmm. Mar 01 20:43:25 Stskeeps: what's the point? :p Mar 01 20:43:56 luke-jr: N8x0 backport since gentoo has failed to deliver a usable mobile experience ;p Mar 01 20:44:04 anyone have some skills in that area? Mar 01 20:44:18 "Note: "More..." application menu will be remove in PR1.2" Mar 01 20:44:22 oh yeaaaah Mar 01 20:44:40 Stskeeps: doesn't sound like a backport at all from that post. and Gentoo's inability to deliver is totally Nokia's fault :P Mar 01 20:44:41 what will happen them? Mar 01 20:44:46 one large scrollable menu? Mar 01 20:44:53 mgedmin, yep Mar 01 20:44:54 + folders I guess Mar 01 20:44:59 oo nice. Mar 01 20:45:03 no c++ coders here? Mar 01 20:45:04 damns. Mar 01 20:45:06 folder functionality has been there already just not enabled Mar 01 20:45:06 luke-jr: fremantle is armv7 based :/ Mar 01 20:45:14 luke-jr: hence the need to do it like this Mar 01 20:45:23 i really need to recompile things Mar 01 20:45:37 RST38h: no folders Mar 01 20:45:41 catorize can give you folders Mar 01 20:45:48 but the system doesn't really support them Mar 01 20:45:49 Stskeeps: relevance? Mar 01 20:45:55 unless konttori got them to fix the bugs i showed him Mar 01 20:46:01 I mean trying to make Hildon "look like" N900 Mar 01 20:46:18 luke-jr: the important part is the WM things Mar 01 20:46:19 *why* :p Mar 01 20:46:29 * timeless_mbp wonders what the latest catorize update did Mar 01 20:46:37 baah I'm just gonna blurt out my problem and see if anyone bites. Mar 01 20:46:46 timeless: http://maemos.ru/2009/12/28/making-folders-icons-n900/ Mar 01 20:46:53 luke-jr: cos there's still a vocal n8x0 community Mar 01 20:47:00 timeless_mbp: yeah, bugs are known, but not important enough for pr1.2 anymore (sorry all) to justify changes. If the schedule changes, then surely, we can push those in Mar 01 20:47:47 konttori: fine w/ me Mar 01 20:47:49 just noting it Mar 01 20:47:50 So I have a gdk::pixmap and I need to add that thing to a Gtk::Image. Problem is that the existing code uses image->property_pixmap() = pixmap_name Mar 01 20:47:59 but that doesn't work in maemo. Mar 01 20:48:09 RST38h: oh, catorize uses folder icons Mar 01 20:48:14 it's not that they aren't possible Mar 01 20:48:17 so the proper way to do it would be to use image->set(pixmap, mask) Mar 01 20:48:24 but where the hell do I get a mask? Mar 01 20:48:27 it's that the pr1.2 system will not usefully support folders Mar 01 20:48:38 must I make a new bitmap from scratch to do this? Mar 01 20:49:08 timeless_mbp: well, that's debateable. Folders work just fine. You just cannot reorganize within (or amongst) folders. Mar 01 20:49:30 it's not trivial to fix properly, so I decided that we won't put effot to it. Mar 01 20:49:41 for 1.2 or post? :) Mar 01 20:49:43 as the categorization by itself helps the issue a lot Mar 01 20:49:51 * timeless_mbp nods Mar 01 20:49:52 well, post we can entertain all sorts of ideas Mar 01 20:50:09 i'm kinda surprised that it'd be so complicated to support though... Mar 01 20:50:28 it seems to me that you should have a per directory file and a list of items for the current directory Mar 01 20:50:28 and if we allow reordering within, then people will start asking for amongst. Then you start wanting to be able to create new. Mar 01 20:50:43 yeah well Mar 01 20:51:14 and considering that pr1.2 model went away from folders to a flat list, it makes most sense to not to concentrate on the needs of the few (no matter how much we like them). Mar 01 20:51:24 hi guys Mar 01 20:51:26 in any case the reordering makes the flat list very useful. Mar 01 20:51:33 konttori, good point. Besides the community solutions work just fine. Mar 01 20:51:35 Stskeeps: so, Mer^2 is 'debian', not 'debian 64', right? Mar 01 20:51:48 and an app already exist to put everything in folders if you want Mar 01 20:51:51 I almost never need to scroll the list anymore Mar 01 20:51:57 but now, night all! Mar 01 20:52:03 timeless_mbp: debian x86 aye Mar 01 20:52:05 * mece waves Mar 01 20:52:07 A reorderable flat list would actually be nicest for me. Mar 01 20:52:22 SpeedEvil, I guess you're in luck then :) Mar 01 20:52:26 * RST38h actually prefers folders, one level of them Mar 01 20:52:45 current scrollable plane feels like a minefield, too easy to accidentally start an app Mar 01 20:53:08 I never find that. Mar 01 20:53:16 I have problems sometimes missing apps Mar 01 20:53:32 Especially when my fingers are numb, or wearing gloves. Mar 01 20:55:19 same SpeedEvil Mar 01 20:55:34 use nails, nails work Mar 01 20:55:52 * RST38h had a few awkward moments with x6 yesterday: nails DID NOT work Mar 01 20:55:55 Not so well in gloves. Mar 01 20:56:09 RST38h, how is the x6? Mar 01 20:56:13 didnt know you had one Mar 01 20:56:27 lcuk: a slicker version of 5800, generally not worth the extra money Mar 01 20:56:56 fair enough Mar 01 20:56:59 * lcuk goes hacking Mar 01 20:57:04 lcuk: I played with one at nokia flagship store Mar 01 20:57:07 it's capacitive atleast not? Mar 01 20:57:08 do not have it Mar 01 20:57:19 ahhhhh Mar 01 20:57:28 asj: it is, but I do not see how resistive 5800 is worse Mar 01 20:57:30 * lcuk hid in nokia store last week Mar 01 20:57:37 some people dont Mar 01 20:57:46 using the side of my finger (as i do on n900) Mar 01 20:57:57 the iphone is same responsiveness Mar 01 20:57:59 RST38h: the hope would be the slightest touch would activate it Mar 01 20:58:14 the joggler has awful capacitive Mar 01 20:58:21 asj: minefield. Mar 01 20:58:37 of course symbian isn't multitouch, but I'm torn on multitouch so I don't care Mar 01 20:58:52 Woo! got it. Mar 01 20:59:11 (just define empty bitmap, doh) Mar 01 21:02:24 lcuk, it's pretty funny how you learn to use the screen. I had some trouble working my friends iphone the other day Mar 01 21:02:56 pr.1.1+ seems to have fixed bug #5566 Mar 01 21:02:57 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5566 Video playback controls disappear when paused Mar 01 21:03:05 lcuk, somehow iphone want's a larger area of contact, while n900 wants a small area. Mar 01 21:03:09 timeless_mbp: .tar.gz instead of .vmdk.zip uploaded Mar 01 21:03:57 anybody knows how can I see album art in media player when it's in separate files, like 'album/cover.jpg'? I restarted tracker and cleaned it's database, but still there are no covers... Mar 01 21:04:37 mece, for whatever reason the side of my finger is where i have settled Mar 01 21:04:46 and its skin enough to be iphone Mar 01 21:05:01 and precise enough for normal use Mar 01 21:05:06 with n900 Mar 01 21:05:19 lcuk, same for me, but my nail sticks out a little on my right hand index finger, so iphone doesn't work for me that way. Mar 01 21:05:24 in liqbase the n900 pwns iphone for scrolling smoothness Mar 01 21:08:48 Stskeeps: ok, what do i do w/ the .tar.gz? :) Mar 01 21:12:58 timeless_mbp: installation guide has something for booting it on x86 Mar 01 21:13:21 Stskeeps: um, ok Mar 01 21:13:37 scrub: scrub completed with 419 errors on Mon Mar 1 22:56:46 2010 Mar 01 21:13:38 mece: "somehow"? it's a capacitive screen Mar 01 21:14:01 http://pastebin.mozilla.org/705578 Mar 01 21:21:05 Stskeeps: http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer/Documentation/Installation ? Mar 01 21:22:30 * timeless_mbp tries http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer/Documentation/Making_x86_Mer_Bootable Mar 01 21:22:54 * timeless_mbp frowns Mar 01 21:23:06 i don't want to convert my n900 into a brick Mar 01 21:24:18 yes you do!! Mar 01 21:24:27 bricks are so fun ^_^ Mar 01 21:24:34 i still think the summit giveway of n900s was stupid Mar 01 21:24:56 why? Mar 01 21:25:19 look how few recipints did anything useful Mar 01 21:26:02 what's the week nr of PR 1.1.1? Mar 01 21:26:18 felipec: it's in bugzilla Mar 01 21:26:37 https://bugs.maemo.org/query.cgi?format=advanced Mar 01 21:27:00 the item above 'future' in 'target' Mar 01 21:27:37 ah 02-8 Mar 01 21:29:14 the 8 is not a week number :) Mar 01 21:29:56 timeless_mbp: nope... how would you call 02-8? Mar 01 21:32:16 a sequence of four characters with no meaning? :) Mar 01 21:33:42 CC = @CC@ \n HOSTCC = @CC@ Mar 01 21:33:43 d'oh! Mar 01 21:34:18 felipec: without a year and major version and probably a product, you have just that Mar 01 21:37:43 what's the version reported by a 1.1.1 device? Mar 01 21:37:57 it should be the whole string Mar 01 21:38:13 no, it's usually like 2.2009.51-1.002 Mar 01 21:38:22 which is my current one, but I'm pretty sure it's 1.1 Mar 01 21:38:34 and I need to flash it since the OTA failed a while back due to lack of disk space. Mar 01 21:38:49 ok, the whole parenthetical Mar 01 21:38:59 i.e. 3.2010.02-8 Mar 01 21:39:03 Ah, thanks. Mar 01 21:39:04 and making me type that is rude Mar 01 21:39:12 did it help the battery drain issue? Mar 01 21:39:13 please don't make me do that again. it hurts my hand Mar 01 21:39:16 heh. Mar 01 21:39:20 seriously. Mar 01 21:39:27 yeah... why the device can't report "1.1.1" is beyond me. Mar 01 21:39:35 because that's not a remotely useful number? Mar 01 21:39:46 1.1.1 fwiw fixed a *very* limited set of bugs Mar 01 21:39:54 the logs for this channel point to the list of fixes Mar 01 21:40:06 yep. though I have the desire to fix battery drain issues ;-) Mar 01 21:40:11 if your bug isn't listed there, or doesn't specifically have the ™ i've indicated, then it isn't fixed Mar 01 21:40:18 and you're wasting my time by not doing some homework Mar 01 21:40:47 … fixed in that version ... Mar 01 21:40:56 Well, then let me stop wasting your time. And you should stop wasting your own time answering questions you don't want to answer! Mar 01 21:41:19 * timeless_mbp goes back to yelling at someone else Mar 01 21:43:34 does anyone know when will the next update be released? Mar 01 21:43:39 no Mar 01 21:43:51 it hasn't been determined Mar 01 21:44:01 and even if it were, nokia doesn't announce dates Mar 01 21:44:17 do you know whether it solves the video calling prob. or not? Mar 01 21:44:29 'the video calling prob.'? Mar 01 21:44:38 yes Mar 01 21:44:42 do you have a bugs.maemo.org url? Mar 01 21:44:54 is 'prob.' 'probably'? Mar 01 21:45:06 is there a max charge after the n900 has been charged once? I charged it with the adapter, used it until it had 88% remaining, and it won't charge again Mar 01 21:45:08 problem Mar 01 21:45:11 the video calling problem Mar 01 21:45:11 prob. = problem Mar 01 21:45:17 the sentence makes more sense this way Mar 01 21:45:24 'the' implies they're precisely only one such whatever Mar 01 21:45:35 if there isn't a bug, then you need to ensure there's a bug Mar 01 21:45:39 if there's a bug, then you need to reference it Mar 01 21:45:45 if there's a bug, you could even follow its progress! Mar 01 21:45:56 and you wouldn't need to ask here.... Mar 01 21:46:05 the wrong part here is clearly considering that there's only a SINGLE bug! Mar 01 21:46:09 * javispedro hides Mar 01 21:46:16 im asking because i don't know if thhere's a bug Mar 01 21:46:18 or not Mar 01 21:46:19 javispedro: definitely one of the problems Mar 01 21:46:26 maemo: bugs.maemo.org/query.cgi Mar 01 21:46:37 surely you could take the effort to go look? Mar 01 21:46:43 you found irc... Mar 01 21:49:31 no bugs about it Mar 01 21:49:36 howcan i open a bug Mar 01 21:50:58 * timeless_mbp ponders Mar 01 21:51:03 how precisely did you search for bugs? Mar 01 21:51:11 here's what i did Mar 01 21:51:18 1. i got a web browser Mar 01 21:51:19 i followed the link you gave me Mar 01 21:51:22 2. i used it to load https://bugs.maemo.org/query.cgi Mar 01 21:51:26 3. i clicked advanced Mar 01 21:51:28 wrote video call in the query Mar 01 21:51:34 i looked at the results Mar 01 21:51:36 4. i clicked 'maemo official applications' Mar 01 21:51:45 5. i clicked 'chat & call & sms' Mar 01 21:51:46 ony two had these words Mar 01 21:51:54 but not about next update Mar 01 21:51:57 6. i entered 'video' in the summary field Mar 01 21:52:09 7. i clicked 'search' Mar 01 21:52:28 that gave me bug 5218 among others Mar 01 21:52:28 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5218 Voice/video call N900 to N810 doesn't work at all Mar 01 21:54:41 fwiw, following your steps, 5218 is in the list Mar 01 21:54:50 (so are 199 others, but it's there) Mar 01 21:56:06 i followed what you said Mar 01 21:57:06 but the resulted bugs doesn't talk about the video call as a defective problem in n90 Mar 01 21:57:33 but it talks about it as a shrtage between n900 & g. talk, n900 & n810 Mar 01 21:57:53 shortage* Mar 01 21:58:41 any help here? Mar 01 21:59:30 maemo: what do you mean 'defective problem'? Mar 01 21:59:57 5218 and 6548 clearly indicate that video call isn't supported _yet_ Mar 01 22:00:18 how come i have a woderfl mobile with an open source & a front facing cam & i can't make a video call with it Mar 01 22:00:41 would you rather *not* have the phone? Mar 01 22:00:56 you could wait another 12 months for the phone to have video support Mar 01 22:00:59 hey, thats a great idea maemo Mar 01 22:01:15 or… since the phone has gstreamer and friends Mar 01 22:01:17 what idea, the "mobile with an open source" idea? Mar 01 22:01:19 surely i couldn't wait Mar 01 22:01:25 you could write your own software Mar 01 22:01:28 maemo, where can i download your app? Mar 01 22:01:41 http://s49.radikal.ru/i126/1002/98/618b507cdead.gif Mar 01 22:02:49 i know that the phone is brilliant, but it took them too much tme to prepare fir the video support Mar 01 22:03:11 maemo, the phone has a cpu in it with an instruction set capable of trillions of combinations, being open source does not mean every single combination will be available at a single point in time Mar 01 22:03:30 i know Mar 01 22:03:42 you are right Mar 01 22:03:45 maemo: start coding if you want video call ;-) Mar 01 22:04:10 have you seen any other open source video phone software around to try porting? Mar 01 22:04:28 if i can, you wouldon't find me here asking about it Mar 01 22:04:32 lcuk: speaking of which, have you heard the trail of tears relating to certain instruction sets? Mar 01 22:04:56 not yet, but im sure i am about to ;) Mar 01 22:05:20 frals, why don't you code for us all Mar 01 22:05:21 ? Mar 01 22:05:22 maemo, i believe we will have all the right kinds of apps on the n900 and beyond Mar 01 22:05:34 maemo: sorry, im busy getting the mms support in :( Mar 01 22:05:38 frals is making mms Mar 01 22:05:41 :D Mar 01 22:05:49 i'll jus wait till they finish it Mar 01 22:05:51 frals has a flightpath planned! Mar 01 22:06:04 hmhm, I' going to us for ~3 weeks, would someone recommend a data plan without contract for n900? Mar 01 22:06:07 about the mms Mar 01 22:06:23 can you tell me how to set the network settings? Mar 01 22:06:35 wiki.maemo.org/MMS Mar 01 22:06:46 you kinda need to install frals's software ... Mar 01 22:06:51 or wiki.maemo.org/FMMS Mar 01 22:07:03 frals Mar 01 22:07:07 lcuk Mar 01 22:07:14 is there any rumblings about autmatic detection yet Mar 01 22:07:25 so people dont have to mess, or do we need larger samples Mar 01 22:07:25 hmm Mar 01 22:07:31 from the isps Mar 01 22:07:44 or is it still some black magic settings needed download from isp Mar 01 22:07:49 from the device itself Mar 01 22:08:16 mine sends me wap settings through sms regulary Mar 01 22:08:23 so, i have to set a new Apn from fApn? Mar 01 22:08:58 ShadowJK: downside with that is only the wap/internet settings are saved, the rest are discarded :< Mar 01 22:09:10 if I'd accept them my n900 would no longer be able to surf the web Mar 01 22:09:28 frals, in the same way you intercept a mms initiation thingy, can you do the same with the settings? Mar 01 22:09:47 maemo: most likely yes Mar 01 22:09:59 the fact that mms ip ranges are potentially incompatible w/ everything else is really fun Mar 01 22:10:00 lcuk: not sure actually, not had time to look at it Mar 01 22:10:21 timeless_mbp: yes, it makes for superduper mega fun when trying to workaround it :( Mar 01 22:10:30 frals that's not fair Mar 01 22:10:45 not egytian settings for the mms ? Mar 01 22:10:51 frals, would that be something you might be able to open up for people to investigate on your behalf Mar 01 22:11:19 lcuk: yeah, anyone could do it, probably just need to eavesdrop on dbus when getting settings sent in the best case Mar 01 22:11:57 lcuk: they might even get sent as sms push and then one could intercept them in wappushd Mar 01 22:12:03 whichd be pretty good as well Mar 01 22:12:12 ok, if i manage to speak to the person i need ill put you two in contact Mar 01 22:12:13 not really sure how those settings are sent out Mar 01 22:12:32 maemo: well, get the settings from your operators homepage then :) Mar 01 22:12:47 fralshow long would it take to finish the mms app. Mar 01 22:12:49 maemo: the wiki only contains what other users have put there Mar 01 22:13:03 maemo: impossible to say, im afraid Mar 01 22:13:13 :( Mar 01 22:13:46 frals are you always available here? Mar 01 22:14:15 uh, depends on what you mean by available, but i got my client on pretty much 24/7 Mar 01 22:14:34 ok Mar 01 22:14:51 if you got questions regarding fmms you should ask them at http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=39737 Mar 01 22:14:52 so whenever i need you i'll find you :) Mar 01 22:15:19 im subscribed to that thread so i get a mail whenever someone replies and i do my best to answer stuff there Mar 01 22:15:39 lcuk: great :) Mar 01 22:15:58 thanks men Mar 01 22:16:05 how old are you by the way Mar 01 22:16:16 np Mar 01 22:16:17 23 Mar 01 22:16:53 i'm really pleased to meet you Mar 01 22:17:25 happy to help :) Mar 01 22:17:30 why, why, oh why does debhelper try to do the dh_auto_test when cross building a package. Mar 01 22:18:13 i am too stupid for all that crap javispedro Mar 01 22:18:25 packaging is well beyond me as well Mar 01 22:18:40 soon i restart my own repo Mar 01 22:19:27 or submit to frals repo Mar 01 22:19:44 * frals scratches head Mar 01 22:19:48 i got a repo? Mar 01 22:19:54 i do Mar 01 22:20:48 anybody want to do a summit at my house? Mar 01 22:21:12 Is it possible to get the free nokia maps on the n800? Mar 01 22:21:39 screw your job, ride my neigbprs horses. take walks in the woods. eat free food Mar 01 22:22:23 hey, I vote for pupsummitnik2010 Mar 01 22:24:29 why did i read "eat free wood"? ;) Mar 01 22:27:30 hi there Mar 01 22:27:50 i've problems with dnsmasq ;( Mar 01 22:30:29 frals: i think my operator only sends thr wap settings, trying to sabotage my n900 Mar 01 22:30:40 ShadowJK: haha Mar 01 22:31:15 whenever I swap my sim and put it into my N900 again, they always send me an SMS message telling me "online games have been disabled" Mar 01 22:31:17 like, with my e75 i get wap, mms, internet, presence, ptt, video sharing, and SIP Voip settings sent in sms Mar 01 22:31:28 so I guess yes :) Mar 01 22:32:22 AntiXpucT: what problems? Mar 01 22:32:58 cehteh, it ignoring nameservers form resolv-file's :( Mar 01 22:33:14 which resolv file? Mar 01 22:33:27 i think, that all of it ;) Mar 01 22:33:34 hup it Mar 01 22:33:47 it uses the 'newest' one then Mar 01 22:33:53 http://paste.pocoo.org/show/184429/ Mar 01 22:34:02 this is default config Mar 01 22:34:22 N900:~# ls /var/run/reso* Mar 01 22:34:22 /var/run/resolv.conf.wlan0 Mar 01 22:34:33 * cehteh poked dnsmasq into his vpn .. after some tries i got it working fine Mar 01 22:34:44 it is only one file in any time (in my way - .wlan0 r .gprs) Mar 01 22:35:13 yeah thats the default Mar 01 22:35:33 and it NOT using nameserver from /var/run/resolv.conf.wlan0 when i connected wia wlan and NOT using .gprs's nameserver, when i connected via gprs :( Mar 01 22:35:33 are the nameservers noted there reachable? did you changed anything in the config? Mar 01 22:35:42 no, i dont Mar 01 22:36:08 check if /var/run/resolv.conf.wlan0 contains the right nameserver and it is reach and useable Mar 01 22:36:27 servers are reachable AND (!!!) it working fine if i add nameservers from /var/run/resolv* to /etc/resolv.conf Mar 01 22:36:28 you can install the 'host' util from devel or so Mar 01 22:37:08 host somename nameservertouse Mar 01 22:37:27 can be used to circumvent dnsmasq Mar 01 22:38:27 hmm... anyway, dnsmasq ignorinf nameserver from .wlan0 ;( Mar 01 22:38:34 *ignoring Mar 01 22:38:50 * sp3000 grumbles at onjoin notices Mar 01 22:39:05 my client likes to highlight on those :| Mar 01 22:40:21 AntiXpucT: well its up to you to diagnose this Mar 01 22:40:39 i say guantanamo all the useless people including me Mar 01 22:40:58 there is some reason for it, and i dont have a crystal ball Mar 01 22:42:09 cehteh, http://paste.pocoo.org/raw/184469/ Mar 01 22:42:16 see Mar 01 22:42:48 little cages. no internet. just sdk Mar 01 22:44:02 if it is no "cat /var/run/resolv.conf.wlan0 >> /etc/resolv.conf" and "options rotate" - it can't locate "n900" host Mar 01 22:44:30 AntiXpucT: eh that are the syntoms .. and you now fucked up /etc/resolv.conf ... restore it and go findout what really happens Mar 01 22:45:08 can you lookup outside addresses? Mar 01 22:45:24 ping microsoft.com or whatever Mar 01 22:45:36 it all working fine Mar 01 22:45:44 so dnsmasq works Mar 01 22:45:51 its your config which is broken somewhere Mar 01 22:45:54 yep, it works itself Mar 01 22:46:15 but it is ignoring nameserver from .wlan0 Mar 01 22:46:27 no it doesnt Mar 01 22:46:38 then it couldnt resolv microsoft.com Mar 01 22:46:44 (those nameserver knows about "n900" host, and dnsmasq says "bad host") Mar 01 22:46:58 yeah maybe configuration error there ... Mar 01 22:47:02 where? Mar 01 22:47:19 in your wlan setup and the nameserver pushed to the device Mar 01 22:47:32 hmmm... O_o Mar 01 22:47:58 but i show you, than all working fine, if i add this nameserver to /etc/resolv.conf Mar 01 22:48:00 how is 'n900' defined Mar 01 22:48:29 like "n900" ;) Mar 01 22:48:43 entry in a upstream nameserver. hosts file .. do you have a 'search domain.tld' in your rsolf.conf.wlan0 ? Mar 01 22:49:04 yes but you set it up wrong in some way Mar 01 22:49:14 no, i don't and i have no domain configured on upstream dns. Mar 01 22:49:21 there are just hostnames Mar 01 22:49:26 i can reach all my host with single names too Mar 01 22:49:47 where? Mar 01 22:50:00 how .. looks wrong to me Mar 01 22:50:34 or at least uncommon enough that dnsmasq fails on it Mar 01 22:51:04 lol Mar 01 22:51:51 all working fine, if I delete "domain-needed" from /etc/dnsmasq.conf ;)) Mar 01 22:52:07 see Mar 01 22:52:12 is it really usefull option? Mar 01 22:52:17 dunno Mar 01 22:52:30 and why it use by default? :( Mar 01 23:05:16 Heya all Mar 01 23:06:40 wtf. is gnome.org down? Mar 01 23:07:06 microsoft bought it. Mar 01 23:07:18 right. Mar 01 23:07:30 Down for me too Mar 01 23:08:03 for feckssake! I was using the reference manual. Mar 01 23:08:09 well I guess it's time for bed then. Mar 01 23:11:01 nite all, sweet dreams Mar 01 23:15:08 should file a bug report with DialCentral for making an awkward date invitation call into a phone-ringing-direct-to-voicemail incident Mar 01 23:16:11 you should die in a fire Mar 01 23:16:30 I'm complaining about alpha/beta software, I probably should die in a fire Mar 01 23:18:49 I hate C++ Mar 01 23:19:03 Omg, that FUD thread is hillarious :) Mar 01 23:19:30 * lcuk passes lardman the bottle Mar 01 23:21:00 even wikipedia is down for me today Mar 01 23:21:11 skynet must be starting to become selfaware Mar 01 23:21:17 * javispedro hides the n810 in safe Mar 01 23:21:36 wazd_e63: not sure if hilarious is the word id use :D Mar 01 23:21:37 "let's terrorize nokia with FUD!" Mar 01 23:22:16 i mostly feel bad for how people attack qgil at tmo :P Mar 01 23:22:44 it's hilarious. oct2009ers are hilarious, and try to fantasize its own world where they are the victim of some global conspiration, but we knew that already. what I didn't expect is quim's response :P Mar 01 23:22:50 Frals: no, seriously, a good list of idiots :) Mar 01 23:23:53 Frals: "Why Ari isn't answering my questions??!!" Mar 01 23:24:03 hehe, true Mar 01 23:24:20 maybe aari does not know himself Mar 01 23:24:25 we need to implement some kind of "facepalms per post" rate :) Mar 01 23:24:30 :) Mar 01 23:24:55 s/conspiration/conspiracy Mar 01 23:24:56 wazd_e63: something you could click instead of "Thanks" on each post? Mar 01 23:24:58 cant answer questions, if you do not know the answers Mar 01 23:25:10 "This post has been thanked 3 times and facepalmed 27 times" Mar 01 23:25:32 LinuxCode: do they even know the question? Mar 01 23:25:34 Greenfly: yeah) Mar 01 23:25:41 javispedro, probably not Mar 01 23:25:53 I bet there is a lot of confusion at Intel and Nokia atm Mar 01 23:25:59 that is a real person Mar 01 23:25:59 Why not asking god himself? Mar 01 23:26:16 "suits come up with an idea, and then everyone needs to figure out a way" Mar 01 23:26:41 Dear god, will n900 have a meego update? Kthxbye Mar 01 23:27:02 wazd_e63, we were just discussing that earlier in #rhel Mar 01 23:27:03 Or santa for example Mar 01 23:27:14 I hope for Nokia they do Mar 01 23:27:24 or people might get put off, permanently Mar 01 23:27:39 why do we care about nokia Mar 01 23:27:40 and the N900 is heavily advertised here Mar 01 23:27:42 ~lart lardman's crappy connection Mar 01 23:27:43 * infobot takes large quantities of Krispy Kream donuts and stuffs them one after another down lardman's crappy connection's throat until lardman's crappy connection puts on 150lbs Mar 01 23:28:22 pupnik: we care as they are a fairly obvious leader. Mar 01 23:28:48 pupnik: A sane store, pushed my a major maker, would at least get some of the various game companies interested. Mar 01 23:28:50 SpeedEvil: why give s shit Mar 01 23:29:13 It depends if you want this to be a geek-only phone. Mar 01 23:29:48 Pupnik: because we can :P Mar 01 23:29:51 * LinuxCode does not want to see a virus riddled mobile market Mar 01 23:30:01 like it happened with the pc market Mar 01 23:30:29 besides, pushing linux is always good Mar 01 23:30:29 Viruses are programs too! Mar 01 23:30:31 the evil is government Mar 01 23:30:45 you shitheads Mar 01 23:31:05 and if a device maker is happy to push it onto their devices, that makes me happy Mar 01 23:31:19 pupnik, been drinking that whisky ? Mar 01 23:31:21 Pupnik: are you drunk? :D Mar 01 23:31:22 lol Mar 01 23:31:33 lol Mar 01 23:31:49 * b-man17 dies lol'ing Mar 01 23:32:33 what would be the best e-mail client for maemo? Mar 01 23:32:38 it's amazing how a couple beers can turn seemingly normal people into raving conspiracy theorists Mar 01 23:32:51 jacekowski, best is subjective Mar 01 23:32:53 lardman, whats wrong with c++ Mar 01 23:33:05 and why cant you still use your c logic where plausable Mar 01 23:33:09 hard to answer Mar 01 23:33:10 * javispedro somehow relates Klowner's point with the fact that most tmo's Oct2009 are conspiracy theorists Mar 01 23:33:47 javispedro, did you get all the examples from the book running? Mar 01 23:33:59 not on actual device, yes on sim Mar 01 23:34:11 lcuk, which book mate ? Mar 01 23:34:19 * LinuxCode is now curious Mar 01 23:34:21 Everybody is so sure that apple is releasing constant updates for old iphones Mar 01 23:34:24 lcuk: references vs pointers Mar 01 23:34:26 lcuk: there's a "website of the book" with updated samples for iphones Mar 01 23:34:28 the book should arrive tomorrow Mar 01 23:34:31 yes Mar 01 23:34:35 ive downloaded the samples Mar 01 23:34:50 the iphone ones arent as easy to port afaik Mar 01 23:34:55 wazd_e63, I think in the past it ws more a memory and cpu issue Mar 01 23:34:58 i think they are xcode or whatever jazz it is Mar 01 23:35:04 the windows examples are closer in c Mar 01 23:35:18 3.0 for iPhone 1 is a half baked crap Mar 01 23:35:22 yes, but I found the abstraction library to be easier to understand Mar 01 23:35:30 Without most of the functionality Mar 01 23:35:36 i took a glance over most of them and the startup and shutdown is encapsulated in just a couple of files in a mini lib Mar 01 23:35:44 yes, that lib :) Mar 01 23:35:47 wazd_e63, tbh I dont really care for apple very much Mar 01 23:35:53 my brother is an Apple nut Mar 01 23:35:54 well ill replace that with working code Mar 01 23:36:00 lcuk: you can look at some of my triangle samples as those were attempts to rewrite that lib Mar 01 23:36:00 designers prerogative Mar 01 23:36:14 and then the examples should possibly all then compile run directly without modification Mar 01 23:36:25 lcuk: the actual "hello triangle" sample was mostly unmodified Mar 01 23:36:30 yes i know Mar 01 23:36:34 (now you see why the triangle was red! :) ) Mar 01 23:36:36 LinuxCode: me too, but tmo now looks like iphone owners site :) Mar 01 23:36:39 im just wanting to get them all on device Mar 01 23:36:45 Apple this, apple that Mar 01 23:36:49 i want rectangular image textures Mar 01 23:36:52 ive got an idea Mar 01 23:36:52 wazd_e63, haha Mar 01 23:36:53 how do i make claws to go to notification area? Mar 01 23:37:05 if I ever see a iphone user near the free wlans in town Mar 01 23:37:09 if it runs it will kick ass Mar 01 23:37:11 I will grab the device and stomp on it Mar 01 23:37:22 I could not get on one of the 3 free wlans in the city the other day Mar 01 23:37:26 so annoying! Mar 01 23:37:33 stomp stomp stomp! Mar 01 23:37:35 then take picture Mar 01 23:37:36 or video Mar 01 23:37:44 And run :) Mar 01 23:37:50 wazd_e63, stand ground Mar 01 23:37:53 lol Mar 01 23:37:59 can anybody advice me? i need jabber client with cute interface, possibility to hide offline contacts, groupchat supportging and "priority" supporting Mar 01 23:38:03 actually I have a better idea Mar 01 23:38:08 block the wlan signal period Mar 01 23:38:09 lcukkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkay Mar 01 23:38:14 Anti[N900]: pidgin? Mar 01 23:38:20 annoy the iphone users Mar 01 23:38:52 pidgin doesn't support priority Mar 01 23:39:04 Anti[N900]: not sure if it's "cute" enough though Mar 01 23:39:10 Anti[N900]: hmmm Mar 01 23:39:30 Anti[N900]: are you sure? Mar 01 23:39:33 pidgin does not support priority? Mar 01 23:39:39 andres, yep, it cute not enough :) Mar 01 23:39:50 yep, i'm sure Mar 01 23:40:07 that surprises me Mar 01 23:40:08 or i just can't find it :) Mar 01 23:40:25 Anti[N900]: cause I remember I was setting it up for my n800 Mar 01 23:40:48 where? :) Mar 01 23:40:50 even telepathy which is what maemo uses support priority Mar 01 23:41:00 uhm? Mar 01 23:41:18 the maemo gui is another story, of course :) Mar 01 23:41:21 and how i change it? Mar 01 23:41:24 In protocol advanced settings I guess Mar 01 23:41:51 i don't see this option there... :( Mar 01 23:42:44 That's strange Mar 01 23:44:11 Government took it away! Pupnik, wake up! :D Mar 01 23:45:26 daddy giveth, daddy taketh, daddy blend! Mar 01 23:45:30 wazd_e63: government are people Mar 01 23:45:38 wazd_e63: you are the people Mar 01 23:45:44 wazd_e63: == you took it away Mar 01 23:45:52 Anti[N900]: sorry, can't help you further cause I don't have any device to check Mar 01 23:46:20 Jacekowski: that's a strange equalation :D Mar 01 23:46:26 bitch asses should die Mar 01 23:46:50 wazd_e63: i just had to say something controversial to make you highlight me Mar 01 23:47:13 because i'm testing if my irssi jabber highlight is working correctly Mar 01 23:47:18 the pain of C++ (or perhaps it's just the wonders of Qt are too much) Mar 01 23:47:23 after my jabber server failure Mar 01 23:47:37 30 people on planet earth who help maemo Mar 01 23:47:44 Jacekowski: look at pupnik, he's doing it well :D Mar 01 23:48:03 i do nothing Mar 01 23:48:24 night chaps Mar 01 23:49:20 going back to e-mail clients for n900 Mar 01 23:49:24 what are my options Mar 01 23:49:28 telnet Mar 01 23:49:32 i would like something like modest Mar 01 23:49:38 but just little bit more Mar 01 23:49:39 like modest? telnet Mar 01 23:49:55 sylpheed claws seems to be little bit overloaded Mar 01 23:50:11 modest is OSS; you could try improving whatever most annoys you of it. Mar 01 23:50:34 well, it seems to have problems displaying html messages Mar 01 23:50:37 patching modest isn't hard Mar 01 23:50:41 but that might be MfE issue Mar 01 23:50:54 though there's an issue with the latest pr (a missing build-dep iirc, can be easily removed but I don't remember which feature removing that breaks) Mar 01 23:50:55 jacekowski: iirc modest uses gtkhtml Mar 01 23:51:00 which is well, unfortunate :) Mar 01 23:51:17 yes modest uses gtkhtml Mar 01 23:51:28 it was patched for the kinetic+select/cut/copy/paste stuff. Mar 01 23:52:57 well, what are other options Mar 01 23:53:04 sylpheed, modest, thunderbird? Mar 01 23:53:16 opera mail would be perfect Mar 01 23:53:39 you could try to act tmo-crazy on opera forums Mar 01 23:53:57 "when are we going to get Opera on our N900s?? APPLE HAS ALREADY PROMISED!!" Mar 01 23:54:12 "At least give us a timeline for Opera on the N900!!" Mar 01 23:55:27 there is opera for ARM processors Mar 01 23:56:12 and in fact maemo has used it. Mar 01 23:56:22 but you get the idea :) Mar 01 23:56:26 s/used/paid for/ Mar 01 23:56:50 hmm http://www.opera.com/business/solutions/devices/evalkit/contact/?form=evalkit Mar 01 23:57:14 http://www.opera.com/business/solutions/devices/gallery/ they still list the n800 :) Mar 01 23:57:15 but it's just browser Mar 01 23:57:23 and i'm looking for mail Mar 01 23:57:41 um Mar 01 23:57:46 opera isn't just a browser Mar 01 23:57:53 they have mail, news, chat Mar 01 23:58:01 opera is a lot like mozilla suite Mar 01 23:58:34 mobile opera is just a browser Mar 01 23:58:47 jacekowski: who was talking about mobile opera? Mar 01 23:58:49 at least it was just a browser when i used it last time Mar 01 23:58:53 jacekowski: that's what they want you to think. Mar 01 23:59:57 evil opera conspirators Mar 02 00:00:24 Why ari can't answer to my question bout opera?! Mar 02 00:00:56 god yet another conspiracy thread! Mar 02 00:02:57 * wazd_e63 turns the lights off and hides under the table Mar 02 00:04:19 oh no, the conspiracy theorists opened a thread about germs on the n900! Mar 02 00:04:25 mind control! Mar 02 00:04:26 germs! Mar 02 00:05:22 dont you wrap your n900 in tin-foil? Mar 02 00:05:31 not if I want it to work! Mar 02 00:05:35 (and no, not aluminium foil!) Mar 02 00:06:30 that is not enough! I just let saint ignucious exorcise my n900. Mar 02 00:06:52 javispedro: I think a floating, spinning N900 could be a feature... Mar 02 00:07:20 btw. what's purpose of asterix on n900? Mar 02 00:07:23 Microlith: in vaacum :) Mar 02 00:07:52 a "good designed OS"... Mar 02 00:08:07 jacekowski: learn to spell Asterisk Mar 02 00:08:18 jacekowski: I would presume there are a variety of purposes. Mar 02 00:08:23 it's asteirx and obelix Mar 02 00:08:27 with ix at the end Mar 02 00:08:35 not the very least to send unsolicited calls to the telemarketter torture script Mar 02 00:08:38 they misspeled it in Mar 02 00:08:45 jacekowski: Asterisk isn't spelled with 'x' in English Mar 02 00:09:04 luke-jr: I believe asterix and obelix are names of software packages...? Mar 02 00:09:04 i think you've read different comic books Mar 02 00:09:07 Asterisk and obelisk :D Mar 02 00:09:29 That's a rip off :) Mar 02 00:09:44 it's spelled with ix Mar 02 00:09:54 Ixterisk and Ixobelix? Mar 02 00:10:13 wait Mar 02 00:10:17 this: http://www.asterisk.org/ ? Mar 02 00:10:17 No, asterisk, as a software is really "isk" Mar 02 00:10:23 close, but not good enough Mar 02 00:10:55 jacekowski: Asterisk the software is spelled English too Mar 02 00:10:58 cause anything else is a french animation... Mar 02 00:10:58 Asterixis is a tremor of the wrist when the wrist is extended sometimes said to resemble a bird flapping its wings. Mar 02 00:13:00 wazd_e63, http://catless.ncl.ac.uk/Risks Mar 02 00:13:08 a risk even Mar 02 00:16:17 * javispedro preventively unsubscribes from the n900 fud thread Mar 02 00:16:22 @#%#@$@#$#@$ timing... no active coupons for the N900 :( Mar 02 00:20:55 Javispedro: you can't read that fast? :) Mar 02 00:21:42 I can today, tomorrow is another story. Mar 02 00:24:03 I think I still need to get some sleep, cyall guys Mar 02 00:29:16 * GeneralAntilles sighs at the screenful of growl notifications. Mar 02 00:29:39 you too should try some tmo unsubscribe treatment Mar 02 00:30:45 javispedro, all from IRC. :P Mar 02 00:31:34 then they're all very important stuff. I hope it doesn't even cross mind your mind to click whatever Growl calls the "discard all" button. Mar 02 00:31:45 GeneralAntilles: hi Mar 02 00:31:57 Yo, luke-jr. Mar 02 00:49:43 hello all Mar 02 00:52:23 Matan is such a wonderful little troll. Mar 02 01:28:54 vjoin #xceleo Mar 02 01:29:00 gah Mar 02 01:31:20 hey, im trying to install easy debian Mar 02 01:31:30 anyone with experience on that? Mar 02 01:33:07 i wanna know a quicker way for this Mar 02 01:33:37 like manually extracting on a pc Mar 02 01:35:08 go stick a cucumber in yourself Mar 02 01:35:38 what do you mean? Mar 02 01:36:18 he forgot to take his meds Mar 02 01:36:55 pupnik: go to your room Mar 02 01:37:02 lol... Mar 02 01:37:21 adalal: what do you mean "quicker way?" Mar 02 01:37:39 eat the dog dung crashanddie Mar 02 01:37:55 pupnik: last warning, stop trolling Mar 02 01:38:02 do not engagwe pupnik Mar 02 01:38:23 i mean, instead of running it on my phone for 3 hours, how about quickening things by extracting it on my computer... Mar 02 01:38:36 meh...... Mar 02 01:38:52 i blame lcuk.... all his fault lol Mar 02 01:38:54 just need to know how easy debian works Mar 02 01:38:58 crashanddie, lol, I missed your emergency situation last night. :P Mar 02 01:39:06 n00bmonk3y, !! Mar 02 01:39:16 hehe Mar 02 01:39:32 its 1:40 am, i swear i should be doing something more important then testing vibrations lol Mar 02 01:39:33 adalal: you'll still have to transfer everything, and all the files will need to be created. Honestly I believe the bottleneck is the storage, not the decompression Mar 02 01:39:34 so whats changed Mar 02 01:39:39 138 here Mar 02 01:39:42 GeneralAntilles: eh? Mar 02 01:39:51 i gave you vibrationy goodness and it fails for you! Mar 02 01:39:57 lcuk & n00bmonk3y: wow, you're two timezone-minutes apart! Mar 02 01:40:07 i know ;) tough life living in worthing Mar 02 01:40:14 all the old people suck 2 minutes away from your life Mar 02 01:40:18 :D seb, evening Mar 02 01:40:21 crashanddie, mwkn. Mar 02 01:40:36 GeneralAntilles: heh, yeah Mar 02 01:40:38 lcuk - does it seg fault you on load or on vibration test? Mar 02 01:40:50 GeneralAntilles: but then you taunted me about it on your damned N900 Mar 02 01:41:00 its clicking on the icon Mar 02 01:41:04 or then from console Mar 02 01:41:10 * n00bmonk3y grumbles n swears Mar 02 01:41:11 crashanddie, yeah, sorry. :P Mar 02 01:41:14 i ran with -d option to try show more debug Mar 02 01:41:17 hmmmmmm Mar 02 01:41:19 but its python crap Mar 02 01:41:22 crashanddie: i dont quite understand, storage? i thought the 20+ gigs on the partition would be enough :S Mar 02 01:41:23 crashanddie, I had assumed there wasn't a lot of effort involved. Mar 02 01:41:24 yeah thank you very appreciated Mar 02 01:41:31 :D Mar 02 01:41:41 the only bit that doesnt happen for me, is the seg fault Mar 02 01:41:45 the rest has always done it Mar 02 01:41:52 you know what i mean, i actually read over it thinkin how efficient that is as a language Mar 02 01:41:56 yet sucky in speed Mar 02 01:42:46 wonder if it works for anyone else.... Mar 02 01:42:53 going for a ciggy lol... stress releaver Mar 02 01:42:56 hold on, ill try download an old version Mar 02 01:43:30 crashanddie: the giant producer of maemo software Mar 02 01:43:30 lol Mar 02 01:43:54 pupnik: go take a cold shower mate, seriously Mar 02 01:43:56 some humility please Mar 02 01:44:09 like i have Mar 02 01:44:36 but does anyone know what has to be done with the img.ext2 file after it's been extracted? Mar 02 01:47:05 thats better Mar 02 01:47:37 ? Mar 02 01:47:51 sorry i had a ciggie Mar 02 01:47:54 feel better lol Mar 02 01:49:43 :( Mar 02 01:49:51 n00bmonk3y do you have git? Mar 02 01:50:00 if so, whats your url Mar 02 01:50:24 nope dont think so, Mar 02 01:50:30 assume i need to create an account hehe Mar 02 01:50:34 bah! Mar 02 01:50:38 just did a bugs one lol - that was a start Mar 02 01:50:46 yeah, how do you retain version control :$ Mar 02 01:50:53 on my pc :D Mar 02 01:51:02 have a folder for every version with notes Mar 02 01:51:06 ok, its also on maemo.org luckily Mar 02 01:51:13 :) Mar 02 01:51:32 http://maemo.org/packages/view/healthcheck/ Mar 02 01:51:34 to be precise Mar 02 01:51:52 0.5.1-3 should be a working version for you i think Mar 02 01:53:41 !!! Mar 02 01:53:46 http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_armel/healthcheck/0.5.0-3/ Mar 02 01:53:55 the last version you pushed to devel Mar 02 01:54:10 the day before i saw it, install it and posted Mar 02 01:54:11 ? Mar 02 01:54:17 Nope last to get pushed out Mar 02 01:54:36 or was the last you saw? Mar 02 01:54:37 lol Mar 02 01:54:40 i push a few daily ;) Mar 02 01:54:48 healthcheck 0.5.0-3 Fremantle Extras-devel free armel Old version cleaned by repository management System 2010-02-26 18:40 UTC Mar 02 01:54:51 yeah i know Mar 02 01:55:03 that was less than a week ago Mar 02 01:55:04 lol twas the last cleaned :P Mar 02 01:55:20 i cant download that version Mar 02 01:55:31 i was going to get it and see if it worked Mar 02 01:55:36 dont you want 0.5.1-3? Mar 02 01:55:40 ie, is it something you changed, or i changed Mar 02 01:55:43 so whats the best ftp prog for n900 Mar 02 01:55:56 n00bmonk3y, no, the version i have indicated Mar 02 01:56:02 0.5.0-3 Mar 02 01:56:06 i think i may know why though - not closed a few calls Mar 02 01:56:21 just closing them now and will re-push it. Mar 02 01:56:40 heh ok Mar 02 01:57:05 calling dbus a few times, could cause a few issues Mar 02 01:57:28 i prefer dtrain Mar 02 01:58:24 ? lol Mar 02 01:59:00 ahaaaaaaa Mar 02 01:59:06 got an interesting error i can see Mar 02 01:59:18 pastebin Mar 02 01:59:25 dbus-send: Data item "ate" is badly formed Mar 02 01:59:26 ill make a new py and tell you if it works Mar 02 01:59:42 no idea what language you are speaking lols Mar 02 02:00:35 use pastebin.ca to send new source for /opt/healthcare/healthcare.py ;) Mar 02 02:00:48 i will test it here Mar 02 02:01:19 me, youll need a few py's lol Mar 02 02:01:36 oh cripes, when did it spread? Mar 02 02:01:47 it got the lurgey and i learnt about being a bit tidier lol Mar 02 02:02:00 yeah gay ness Mar 02 02:02:18 we can solve the tatd Mar 02 02:02:35 takes a bit of money Mar 02 02:03:11 hmmm def found the error and its in a dbus call...... Mar 02 02:03:31 run-standalone.sh dbus-send --print-reply --system --dest=com.nokia.mce /com/nokia/mce/request com.nokia.mce.request.req_vibrator_pattern_activate string:' + "\'PatternTouchscreen\' Mar 02 02:03:36 takes a bit of money Mar 02 02:04:08 sorry remove the "\ 's - as thats just in the code Mar 02 02:05:39 mhm Mar 02 02:06:10 w000ps building a new one :D Mar 02 02:07:30 what are you trying? my xchat notify plugin has some ad-hoc code for vibrating and blinking the leds Mar 02 02:07:46 (in C) Mar 02 02:07:57 my healthcheck app - was causing lcuk to have a few minifits lol... should be fine noew :) Mar 02 02:08:11 new build gone in, so gotta wait the usual 10 missippissippi's Mar 02 02:08:22 mississippi Mar 02 02:08:24 even Mar 02 02:08:24 lol Mar 02 02:08:42 you should cancel patterns you started when done with them, else they may shadow other ones (based on priority) Mar 02 02:08:45 Hrm, is rebooting while trying to charge (but not otherwise) generally a sign of a deadish battery and not other issues? Mar 02 02:08:49 yup i do :) Mar 02 02:08:58 and the spelling mistake was in the cancel ;) Mar 02 02:09:04 ok Mar 02 02:09:13 had deactiv ate Mar 02 02:09:22 wondered why i was getting "ate" errors Mar 02 02:09:22 didnt followed the coversation Mar 02 02:09:26 no problem ginocunt. i am in the circle Mar 02 02:09:44 i copied the line from a talk.m page, and it had the space in it ;) Mar 02 02:09:56 ginotwat is silent Mar 02 02:11:00 * lcuk checks for updates :P Mar 02 02:11:00 dont start bitch Mar 02 02:11:32 hehehe Mar 02 02:11:49 think it's about 8-10 minutes these days :D Mar 02 02:12:18 ooo under 4 hours sleep now, tomorrow will be fun ;) Mar 02 02:12:19 this chodemuncher needs to be banned Mar 02 02:13:31 * n00bmonk3y is updating :) - new version out already! go autobuilder go! Mar 02 02:14:42 meh, works for me again Mar 02 02:16:36 aghhhh, now a problem on first tab Mar 02 02:16:40 i cant win tonight Mar 02 02:16:49 lol n00bmonk3y whats your name? Mar 02 02:16:59 now thats a good question ;) Mar 02 02:17:08 did the update vibrate bit work for you? Mar 02 02:17:22 if intel fucks the compouter world again Mar 02 02:17:27 what version Mar 02 02:17:39 0.5.1-5 Mar 02 02:17:53 found the error on tab 1 though Mar 02 02:19:38 right... last build for the night going in... tested all bits and now working! Mar 02 02:22:07 actually thankful the autobuilder process is simple'ish now Mar 02 02:28:20 lcuk - ok a working version with no errors in extras devel Mar 02 02:28:27 V0.5.1-6 Mar 02 02:29:49 thanks n00bmonk3y :D Mar 02 02:30:38 :D :D :D Mar 02 02:31:20 * lcuk best sleep, gnite [insertname] Mar 02 02:32:07 hehe Mar 02 02:32:10 night lcuk Mar 02 02:32:20 * n00bmonk3y goes to bed too (a different bed i might add! lol) Mar 02 02:32:52 n00bmonk3y: the fact you felt you had to specify that is quite worrying Mar 02 02:34:07 wow bluetooth is slow Mar 02 02:34:57 you think wifi is slow, try transferring a few hundred megabytes over bluetooth link Mar 02 02:35:26 makes me pretend I'm travelling backwards through time to appreciate 802.11b Mar 02 02:37:02 well who maded you op crashanddie Mar 02 02:37:33 pupnik: GA and X fade Mar 02 02:37:47 pupnik, run, he'll eat your family! Mar 02 02:38:02 nah hes cool Mar 02 02:38:35 wel almost Mar 02 02:54:12 lol Mar 02 02:54:49 hundreds of #maemo lurkers Mar 02 02:55:04 and total fail Mar 02 02:55:19 gigantor fail Mar 02 02:55:43 fail on what? Mar 02 02:55:54 productivity Mar 02 02:56:19 i could kick all your asses Mar 02 02:56:34 productivity like in adding a "lol" comment ? ;-P Mar 02 02:56:39 and i SUCK Mar 02 02:57:05 pupnik, be still. :P Mar 02 02:57:49 pupnik: go kick my ass - tell me if and how gaia chip can supply VBUS voltage to USB hostmode! Mar 02 02:58:44 no i dont understand that sorry. u are right Mar 02 02:59:28 but there sre a lot of "easy" things **** ENDING LOGGING AT Tue Mar 02 02:59:58 2010