**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Mar 02 02:59:58 2010 Mar 02 03:00:21 well, people have different notion of "productivity". Some even might not give a shit about, at all Mar 02 03:01:15 I love scrutinizing electronics docs like schematics. - thus my nick Mar 02 03:01:55 if this doesn't meet your definition of productivity - your problem Mar 02 03:04:18 i auck Mar 02 03:11:22 hickup? Mar 02 03:16:08 DocScrutinizer: did you moved /usr or /var meanwhile? Mar 02 03:16:32 not yet. Had a long sleep() Mar 02 03:16:39 hehe me too :P Mar 02 03:16:47 now a big coffee :P Mar 02 03:17:11 good idea, could use a second one as well Mar 02 03:17:17 and working on something else .. Mar 02 03:17:24 (not n900!) Mar 02 03:18:31 i didnt recognized that t-tan yesterday is the guy who makes this community kernel .. if he reappears i have to ask him some things Mar 02 03:22:54 like f.e. if he spent a few moke KB for the kernel log buffer? ;-P Mar 02 03:24:51 .. more about "what do you think about making it in some why that the next time i try it, it doesnt brick my device" ... :P Mar 02 03:25:00 damn, another kernel devels' madness at Nokia, to config the kernel in such a way not even a full system boot's kernel log msgs fits into dmesg ringbuffer Mar 02 03:29:44 cehteh: what exactly mad the whole thing fail? any clue? Mar 02 03:29:51 madE Mar 02 03:30:49 no idea ... that morning HAM showed an update and i installed it .. and reboot was neither re nor boot Mar 02 03:31:29 what was that update? Mar 02 03:31:30 and i dont have the knowledge and patience to debug the boot process Mar 02 03:31:51 the package 'linux-kernel-flasher' or so is its name Mar 02 03:31:59 that installs a new enhanced kernel Mar 02 03:32:25 (with ext4 support) Mar 02 03:32:33 now i am back to the nokia kernel .. Mar 02 03:33:21 and unless t-tam has a plan how to survive failures with some rescue strategy and how to handle nokia firmware updates i am not going to try it again Mar 02 03:33:51 i like the idea of community provided kernels .. but you have to be careful not to close the dor behind you for nokia updates Mar 02 03:34:10 ext4 is already critical .. i doubt that nokia kernels will ever support it Mar 02 03:34:45 I was hoping for luks crypto support. Mar 02 03:35:13 but i can live with it when a first boot wont be able to access MyDocs and mmc1 ... as long there is some way to get that other kernel in asap Mar 02 03:35:18 on desktop Ubuntu and Windows machines I can mount my USB storage device partition 2 as luks crypto Mar 02 03:35:24 it just pops up asking me for password Mar 02 03:35:27 works awesome Mar 02 03:35:33 lucent: iirc that kernel has crypto Mar 02 03:35:53 there's a userland component to that problem which I have not seen addressed in Maemo Mar 02 03:35:58 but i see problems with the device about usability .. when and how will you unlock it Mar 02 03:36:18 cehteh: another case of different thinking between foss-devels and commercial maintenance of a system Mar 02 03:36:32 if someone steals your device its likely in a unlocked state so crypto wont help you much .. except for draing battery Mar 02 03:36:54 cehteh: I've seen soem of these by now ;-P Mar 02 03:37:11 note that with only 256MB ram there is no much page cache and it has to decrypt even more Mar 02 03:37:26 DocScrutinizer: yeah Mar 02 03:38:06 as i saied at some point i would like if the community can stand on its own legs .. maintain a up to date kernel and integrating nokias updated blobs Mar 02 03:38:19 (in some legally workaround way) Mar 02 03:38:41 my time with OM obviously changed my thinking a little. I only realized that when you made your comment about the back-cover switch sync idea I had yesterday Mar 02 03:38:46 the kernel is not tainted, this should be possible Mar 02 03:39:01 but it needs some work and people Mar 02 03:40:09 of course .. there are a lot still cosed things where nokia say "we dont need to open them because you dont need it" Mar 02 03:40:35 always a very bad reasoning Mar 02 03:40:44 like MCE .. i thought about DeviceOn Blinking should be in different color depending on battery state ... Mar 02 03:40:50 but thats impossible to hack Mar 02 03:41:11 I usually like to argue against that until everybody is annoyed to death ;-P Mar 02 03:41:15 Impossible is a strong word. Mar 02 03:41:20 for changing blinking patterns you have to restart MCE .. which is not practical Mar 02 03:41:42 SpeedEvil: well not easily and conviniently Mar 02 03:41:45 Sure. Mar 02 03:41:48 as with open source Mar 02 03:41:51 I posed a /me is pondering a complete MCE RE Mar 02 03:41:54 some days ago Mar 02 03:42:01 RE? Mar 02 03:42:10 reverse engineering Mar 02 03:42:27 I want disk activity on green, CPU on red, and net on blue Mar 02 03:42:43 well i buyed the n900 and not something else because i dont like this RE, jailbreaking and stuff Mar 02 03:42:53 yeah Mar 02 03:42:55 heh, you can do all that very easily Mar 02 03:43:21 i want to support openness .. reverse enginerring is imo the wrong thing to educate hardware creators Mar 02 03:43:50 of course you can .. but in a ideal way you should not be required to do so Mar 02 03:44:16 cehteh: (change blink patterns) No, you have all you need in LP5523's cmd set, it can even do ADD, MUL, and register indirect (or something like that) Mar 02 03:45:09 I referred to your requests for features, not to RE. When I said "easily" Mar 02 03:45:12 but mce will override it and it has the authority in the system to control it Mar 02 03:45:22 of course i can poke directly into the registers, i did that Mar 02 03:45:32 but what i want is a 'offical' way Mar 02 03:46:24 add DeviceOnBattLowPattern .... and let mce react on a battery low dbus signal switchign to that pattern Mar 02 03:46:41 if it would be open source it would be trivial Mar 02 03:47:07 with closed source its just pita Mar 02 03:47:46 and i dont have *that* much need on it that i desperately reverse enginer mce .. Mar 02 03:48:13 but open source will add value here even for nokia, getting features back from the community which they never tought about Mar 02 03:48:28 there IS an 'official' way at least for changing blink patterns. You load *one* sophisticated pattern, that reads variable A, B, or C to change the pattern. Of course there's no way in static mce.ini to dynamically change value of A, B, C depending on bat charge. You need to implement that via direct access to LP5523 either via sysnodes or directly via I2C Mar 02 03:48:38 yes Mar 02 03:49:00 i know how to do that Mar 02 03:49:11 but this is a unclean solution Mar 02 03:49:30 when you poke something into sys mce will override it at any occation Mar 02 03:49:57 really? Weird, as afaik the math and indirect cmds of LP5523 are in the nondisclosed datasheet, and the public ds of LP5521 doesn't have these Mar 02 03:50:30 its documented on the wiki somewhere Mar 02 03:50:51 cehteh: No. MCE will *not* o verride setting of variable contents Mar 02 03:50:53 well i defined a PatternIRCMessage for the vibrator, and my xchat plugin calls that over mce Mar 02 03:51:49 i could add a PatternBatteryLow for the led and write a small daemon which watches on dbus battery low warning and does nothing that enable this pattern Mar 02 03:52:23 (over mce) Mar 02 03:52:43 maybe I made not clear enough: A,B, and C are hw register variables in LP5523, which you can use in ramp, loop, and set commands instead of direct values Mar 02 03:53:32 yes ... but what happens if a call comes in and mce want to notify this call? Mar 02 03:53:45 so your pattern mce loads to LP5523 never changes, and mce can overwrite as frequently as it likes. Mar 02 03:53:59 hum? Mar 02 03:54:05 You only change the value of A in LP5523 by direct access Mar 02 03:54:30 but well i dont want to block mce either .. i want its features Mar 02 03:54:45 you do not need to blocj mce Mar 02 03:54:48 the daemon approach above might be the simplest way Mar 02 03:54:53 eh? Mar 02 03:54:58 i dont understand you Mar 02 03:55:24 lemme check for you, moment please Mar 02 03:55:31 something has to coordinate the access to the controler Mar 02 03:56:05 thats by definition mce .. i can poke something into it .. but how do i define if my pattern has precedence over what mce thinks? Mar 02 03:56:48 there are 3 pwm's ... the first one is commonly used, the second is spare and can be used for the blinking patterns and the third controls the keyboard lights Mar 02 03:57:01 you use mce to store your pattern to lp5523 Mar 02 03:57:10 yes Mar 02 03:57:31 well that exactly like i saied with the 'daemon' approach Mar 02 03:57:43 i define a new "battery low" pattern for mce Mar 02 03:58:08 and write a daemon which sends a message to mce to activate it when it gets a battery low message Mar 02 03:58:20 3C : variable: these bits are used to store a global 8-bit variable. Variable can be used to control program flow Mar 02 03:58:34 (from LP5523 datasheet) Mar 02 03:58:50 ? Mar 02 04:00:24 ramp(i): 0, prescale[1], stoptime[5], sign[1], # of increments[8] Mar 02 04:02:17 ramp(ii): 1, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 0, 0, 0, prescale[1], sign[1], steptime[2], # of increments[2] Mar 02 04:02:22 mhm .. this led-pattern editor has some bugs still :P Mar 02 04:02:39 i: used with direct values. ii: used with variables Mar 02 04:05:32 i dont get what you want Mar 02 04:08:21 Programming ramps with variables is very similar to program- Mar 02 04:08:23 ming ramps with numerical operands. The only difference is Mar 02 04:08:24 that step time and number of increments are captured from Mar 02 04:08:26 variable registers, when the instruction execution is started. Mar 02 04:08:59 ah Mar 02 04:09:15 cehteh: you create a invariant pattern using e.g ramp with variable Mar 02 04:09:27 you store this pattern via mce Mar 02 04:09:49 you set value of variable via direct acces to LP553:3E Mar 02 04:09:53 and control it by poking the var Mar 02 04:09:58 ok Mar 02 04:09:58 yep Mar 02 04:10:49 well still means i have to run something which watches the battery Mar 02 04:11:02 ..reacts on events Mar 02 04:11:03 mce won't override the variable (I hope :-P) Mar 02 04:11:35 and when someone else decides the same it collides Mar 02 04:11:40 sure you need your own foo to do this nonstandard battery supervision Mar 02 04:12:10 (collisions) that's all times and everywhere Mar 02 04:13:05 hehe well defining a battery low pattern in mce.ini and call that from my foo would be clean Mar 02 04:13:21 you mustn't use colliding services of any kind. Nowhere :-) Mar 02 04:14:04 not if a second service does same, but with different notion of bat low level Mar 02 04:14:06 any webserver ben ported to fremantle yet? Mar 02 04:14:21 ligthy Mar 02 04:14:30 since ages Mar 02 04:15:23 DocScrutinizer: well that would only collide in config and not in hardware. more sane Mar 02 04:16:19 aah, for all the anxious lurkers: Mar 02 04:16:24 step time (ii) Mar 02 04:16:34 is it in repos Mar 02 04:16:36 0-3 Mar 02 04:16:56 One ramp increment done in (step time) x (prescale). Mar 02 04:16:58 Step time is loaded with the value (5 LSB bits) of the variable defined below. Mar 02 04:16:59 0 = local variable A Mar 02 04:17:01 1 = local variable B Mar 02 04:17:02 2 = global variable C Mar 02 04:17:04 3 = register address 3CH variable D value, or register address 42H value. Mar 02 04:17:04 back off... Mar 02 04:17:05 The value of the variable should be from 00001b to 11111b (1d to 31d) for correct operation. Mar 02 04:17:35 other question are there some scripts triggered in /etc or somewhere when battery goes low or charger is plugged in? Mar 02 04:17:47 that would make this *really* easy Mar 02 04:18:02 just dbus-send and done! Mar 02 04:18:14 ~lart mce Mar 02 04:18:15 * infobot beats mce into protomatter with the andromeda galaxy Mar 02 04:18:19 guess no Mar 02 04:18:39 # of increments Mar 02 04:18:40 (ii) Mar 02 04:18:52 The number of increment/decrement cycles. Value is taken from variable def0 = local variable A Mar 02 04:18:54 1 = local variable B Mar 02 04:18:55 2 = global variable C Mar 02 04:18:57 3 = register address 3CH variable D value, or register address 42H value. Mar 02 04:21:57 ooops, missing "0": Mar 02 04:22:09 ramp(ii): 1, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 0, 0, 0, 0, prescale[1], sign[1], steptime[2], # of increments[8] Mar 02 04:22:51 DocScrutinizer: DOCZZZZZZZZZZZZ! Mar 02 04:23:03 raster: qwazzup? Mar 02 04:23:18 nuffin' - just sayin' hi-ho! Mar 02 04:23:26 EHLO! Mar 02 04:23:34 pf::powerwait:/etc/init.d/powerfail start Mar 02 04:23:34 pn::powerfailnow:/etc/init.d/powerfail now Mar 02 04:23:34 po::powerokwait:/etc/init.d/powerfail stop Mar 02 04:23:34 # Mar 02 04:23:38 .. inittab Mar 02 04:23:47 how much would you bet that these are not used? :) Mar 02 04:23:47 heh Mar 02 04:23:56 hmmm Mar 02 04:25:05 /etc/init.d/powerfail doesnt even exist Mar 02 04:25:34 raster: just busy proving you "schem never useful, never disclosed" wrong :-P Mar 02 04:26:18 ok lets forget about this .. i have other work to do Mar 02 04:26:35 cehteh: :-D Mar 02 04:27:39 raster: though I fully appreciate, with decent comprehensive commented OSS drivers you rarely ever need them Mar 02 04:29:37 DocScrutinizer: you shouldnt need them. Mar 02 04:29:45 raster: and obviously without chip datasheets the schem are largely useless Mar 02 04:29:51 yup Mar 02 04:29:55 thats where i'm comibng from Mar 02 04:30:11 if u have datasheets and open soruce drivers - the schem is pretty much not useful Mar 02 04:30:26 sure - u might not know if interrupt line from chip a (as datasheet says it has) is wired up Mar 02 04:30:28 well, I say "need datasheets? heh, they *are* somewhere on this planet" Mar 02 04:30:35 but u'll find out uber-fast when u try :) Mar 02 04:30:44 rgrep -i battery /usr/include/ Mar 02 04:30:46 /usr/include/hgw/hgw.h: HGW_DEVICE_STATE_BATTERYLOW = 0x10, Mar 02 04:30:56 * This file is part of hildon-games-wrapper Mar 02 04:31:02 8) Mar 02 04:32:07 has php-cgi been ported to maemo cant find the package but lighttpd says you need it for php Mar 02 04:32:14 raster: let's agree a driver devel needs sufficient amount of decent accurate info. No matter which form these come Mar 02 04:32:50 soure + datasheet fine. Schematics + datasheet also fine Mar 02 04:33:04 source + schematics cumbersome Mar 02 04:33:19 none of those 3 a real PITA Mar 02 04:33:52 It's funny though Mar 02 04:33:57 hehe only schematics is prolly pita as well Mar 02 04:33:58 all those whining little kids on tmo Mar 02 04:34:07 yelling at Quim for trying to clear things up Mar 02 04:34:12 "Nokia's PR sucks" Mar 02 04:34:21 "Nokia are run by communists" Mar 02 04:34:29 OMG Mar 02 04:34:42 the bloody reds Mar 02 04:34:48 "GPS thinks im in China .... help! (12)" ... haha Mar 02 04:34:53 It's funny to see how having a more open relationship with a community nearly always ends up with that very same community being alienated by any form of communication Mar 02 04:34:59 muhahaha Mar 02 04:36:25 crashanddie: been there Mar 02 04:37:03 Nokia was right with how they handled the whole Meego transition Mar 02 04:37:08 Maemo's community is crap Mar 02 04:37:16 serious and utter horseshit Mar 02 04:37:30 crashanddie: you can stop a lot of that bitching by real communication instead of dropping announcements. Only if community is reasonably small though Mar 02 04:37:44 you get spat in the face for trying to help, kicked in the balls for offering answers Mar 02 04:37:52 I say, fuck Maemo as a community Mar 02 04:38:02 DocScrutinizer: schematics unfortunately are mostly useless for driver devel.. if u dont have datasheets. as u said. dastasheets from a software pov cover your bases. i'm a happoy man with datasheets Mar 02 04:38:04 the people who matter (and they know who they are) will move on to better things Mar 02 04:38:12 DocScrutinizer: of course, NITs don't have datasheets, schematics, OR source :( Mar 02 04:38:32 they'll be able to move past the shit that flies around, while the moaners and the bitchers stay stuck Mar 02 04:38:57 luke-jr: that's why I mentioned this case as "real PITA" Mar 02 04:39:17 ah, I see :) Mar 02 04:39:21 I read that line wrong Mar 02 04:39:41 luke-jr: though now I got semi-decent schematics, plus a number of datasheets (growing all the time) Mar 02 04:39:55 DocScrutinizer: for NITs? Mar 02 04:40:02 for N900 Mar 02 04:40:10 crashanddie: right now nokia havent handled the mego thing as well as they should imho. Mar 02 04:40:14 for 810 I got schem a 6months ago Mar 02 04:40:17 including the parts Nokia doesn't include source for? Mar 02 04:40:31 as best i know there is no answere on "so what with n900 and meego? will my n900 be supported fully in future?" Mar 02 04:40:39 or point me to it... :) Mar 02 04:40:54 raster: it's not the right question to ask Mar 02 04:41:11 also the whole "lets move to rpm" and people have been busy working on doing debian packaging for maemo - there will be a big hiccup in software infra Mar 02 04:41:40 crashanddie: its damned wel the right q to ask - if u bought a n900 and want to know if u were just shafted wrt. to support and future os/software direction Mar 02 04:41:40 That's not even going to be the case for MeeGo 1 Mar 02 04:41:46 raster, and Maemo 6 will mostly have deb's still ;) Mar 02 04:41:51 or so they say :D Mar 02 04:41:58 raster: that's what Nokia has always done. get used to it. Mar 02 04:42:00 raster: you have a full keyboard, use it Mar 02 04:42:03 ShadowJK: but maemo6 != meego Mar 02 04:42:12 meego as last i heard was going to all be rpm Mar 02 04:42:12 raster: Maemo 6 = MeeGo 1.0 Mar 02 04:42:19 maemo6 may be a step towards meego Mar 02 04:42:21 crashanddie, I don't think so Mar 02 04:42:33 it's API compatible Mar 02 04:42:36 However, I think Maemo 6 will support the Meego 1.0 API! Mar 02 04:42:40 luke-jr: i'm not here to flame. so not going there. Mar 02 04:42:57 crashanddie: api - yes. hooray. maemo5 is api compatible to ubuntu Mar 02 04:42:58 or debian Mar 02 04:43:00 or fedora Mar 02 04:43:03 or god knows what else Mar 02 04:43:11 depends by "how muhc of the api" Mar 02 04:43:12 you're already trolling, you might as well flame Mar 02 04:43:22 as such packaging structure, formats, standards etc. are all different in the future Mar 02 04:43:32 raster, I think they're going to define a subset, kinda like LSB does, but a useful one... Mar 02 04:43:36 crashanddie: i am not trolling. Mar 02 04:43:45 sure you are Mar 02 04:43:51 crashanddie: i dont troll. i'd like you to rethink your accusation. Mar 02 04:43:51 you're not listening to what people say Mar 02 04:44:02 crashanddie: i am listening. Mar 02 04:44:02 But yeah, in practice people will just use whatver libs are present and whine about $vendors when stuff only works on one device Mar 02 04:44:11 raster: Maemo 5 doesn't support N810. Why would you assume Maemo 6 will support N900? Mar 02 04:44:20 let alone MeeGo, an entirely new thing Mar 02 04:44:30 anyone of you happen to have an almost empty (but not red yet) battery right now? Mar 02 04:44:42 people will have to rebuild their apps anyway for new versions of Maemo/Meego, so moving to RPM really isn't such a big deal. We'll still submit sources to a builder, and get the package in the repos, not any different from my point of view Mar 02 04:44:42 Well MeeGo is more like Mer... that'd make it easier to move from device to device :D Mar 02 04:44:56 cehteh, mine's at 37% Mar 02 04:45:15 crashanddie: you are deciding to chuck a hissie-fit over it all. i'm being simple and objective. i have an n900 here. and i have yet to hear a nokia communication that tells me that they will port and support future os's on the n900 that are meego once its all merged Mar 02 04:45:20 Also, why the fuck do people go "OMG NOKIA ANNOUCED A NEW PLATFORM, WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN TO MY N900????? ZOMG" Mar 02 04:45:25 meego is going to have a chunk of pain as its 2 distros merging Mar 02 04:45:37 raster: don't expect it. Nokia doesn't do that. Mar 02 04:45:53 mhm .. bit much .. want someone to dbus-monitor and report the exact signal it sends when the battery low warning comes Mar 02 04:46:07 with 37% i guess we have to wait some hours Mar 02 04:46:09 raster: when you bought your N900, did it have a sticker saying "MeeGo/Maemo 6 compatible"? Mar 02 04:46:11 crashanddie: because people who buy the n900 and speak in the community dont see it as a device with a 1-off os. they expect and hope for support with future os's back-ported and working on it so their investment pays off. Mar 02 04:46:15 mine is at 100% plugged into charger Mar 02 04:46:29 crashanddie: your view of the device and theirs (and mine) differs Mar 02 04:46:32 raster: that's a misconception people have Mar 02 04:46:44 raster: and if they were smart enough, they'd realise that the OS is open enough for them to maintain themselves Mar 02 04:46:49 luke-jr: no - it's an expectation. regardless of guarantees or what nokia do Mar 02 04:46:52 raster: Nokia does one-off devices. They might do a few bugfix revisions, but that's about it. Mar 02 04:46:52 its an expectation Mar 02 04:46:52 cehteh, actually, the meter changed its mind and is now saying 45% :P Mar 02 04:47:06 raster: it's a flawed one, since Nokia never does that Mar 02 04:47:12 raster: Nokia won't stop developing on Maemo 5 tomorrow evening, if they have a bunch of people using it it will keep getting bugfixes etc Mar 02 04:47:26 its like expecting your microwave will actually heat up your food. Mar 02 04:47:33 and will continue to do so. Mar 02 04:47:40 even when the food changes. Mar 02 04:47:51 dude, that is the worst metafor EVER Mar 02 04:47:52 maemo 5 *isn't* open enough for the users to maintain it by themselves Mar 02 04:47:55 raster: like it or not, Nokia sucks. :P Mar 02 04:48:02 ali1234: yes it is Mar 02 04:48:07 unless you don't care that you can't make phone calls on the community port Mar 02 04:48:17 we get a one-off OS that can't be maintained by the community. Mar 02 04:48:23 ali1234: you can setup repos, you can distribute apps, which is 99% of what is needed anyway Mar 02 04:48:27 ali1234, I think jebba has done it ;) Mar 02 04:48:29 crashanddie: dude. nokia have already said no to some of my bug reportsa as they will not fix it on maemo5 - even though they can and its nothing maemo5 specific - they are already moving on. dont tell me otherwise. Mar 02 04:48:32 with ofono.. Mar 02 04:48:39 yeah, ofono... which has no GUI Mar 02 04:48:58 ali1234: GUI is the least of your problems, if everything else works Mar 02 04:48:58 ShadowJK: be a good boy and watch some pr0n to drain your battery as fast as possible please Mar 02 04:49:07 cehteh, downloading podcasts on 3g Mar 02 04:49:10 :) Mar 02 04:49:11 unfortunately not that much new Mar 02 04:49:22 I was hoping for 500 megs new or something Mar 02 04:49:23 crashanddie: you don't want to be stuck with an ancient kernel and ancient xorg for eternity Mar 02 04:49:25 raster: well, first of, Nokia didn't say no, Andre did. And no, fixing the size of a button isn't important enough to warrant a development effort -- synch with Exchange however is being worked on as we speak Mar 02 04:49:47 arachnist: why not? My N810 still runs whatever the kernel version is, and whatever the graphical server is Mar 02 04:50:00 * DocScrutinizer yawns and points to /topic Mar 02 04:50:03 it's a NIT for fuck's sake Mar 02 04:50:04 crashanddie: and as a result, N810 is quickly becoming unusable Mar 02 04:50:10 luke-jr: no it doesn't Mar 02 04:50:11 ShadowJK: before it goes red please do a 'dbus-monitor --system' and tell me the bme signal for the battery low Mar 02 04:50:19 it's perfectly fine, what the hell are you guys on about? Mar 02 04:50:32 signal sender=:1.25 -> dest=(null destination) serial=78 path=/com/nokia/bme/signal; interface=com.nokia.bme.signal; member=charger_charging_on Mar 02 04:50:32 signal sender=:1.25 -> dest=(null destination) serial=79 path=/com/nokia/bme/signal; interface=com.nokia.bme.signal; member=battery_full Mar 02 04:50:33 crashanddie: because, especially with xorg, things are going to get incompatible with current versions sooner or later Mar 02 04:50:34 crashanddie: it lacks the memory for a modern DE, for a start Mar 02 04:50:47 crashanddie: a problem that would be solved by 2.6.33's memory compression Mar 02 04:50:54 no it wouldn't Mar 02 04:50:58 a good metaphor would be if sony released the ps3 six months after the ps2. people might want to know if there would still be games made for ps2, or if they just spent $500 on an expensive paperweight. Mar 02 04:51:02 1478th meego-kills-maemo whining - and counting Mar 02 04:51:08 arachnist: with Linux, too; any recent udev version no longer supports N810's kernel Mar 02 04:51:09 .. i have these too battery low should be similar i guess it will be exactly 'battery_low' but not sure Mar 02 04:51:18 Stskeeps: to the rescue! Mar 02 04:51:24 luke-jr, memory compression? Mar 02 04:51:31 ShadowJK: yes, ramzswap Mar 02 04:51:36 oh that got merged? Mar 02 04:51:39 yes Mar 02 04:51:40 crashanddie: wtf? chaning size of a button? where did i mention that? Mar 02 04:51:53 luke-jr: do you have an package for the n900 for that? Mar 02 04:51:54 raster: just giving a random example, I don't know your bug reports by heart Mar 02 04:51:55 crashanddie: and what has andre got to do with this? Mar 02 04:51:59 luke-jr, there's thread on tmo with user friendly install for it on N810 btw Mar 02 04:52:07 my bug reports are on the opengl-es libs/drivers Mar 02 04:52:11 cehteh: a package for what? Mar 02 04:52:12 ramzswap and memory deduplication might do wonders on embedded devices Mar 02 04:52:16 i use ramzswap on the laptop .. even with 4GB ram .. Mar 02 04:52:18 ShadowJK: ??? Mar 02 04:52:36 specifically actual artifacts in rendering, failure to comply with opengl-es specs (those may get fixed) and horrible performance due to grotuitous extra copies Mar 02 04:52:40 ramzswap can't be packaged last I checked Mar 02 04:52:45 also no vsync swaps - so u cannto get rid of tearing. Mar 02 04:52:49 duh Mar 02 04:52:54 luke-jr, how come? Mar 02 04:52:59 its a generic problem be it in mameo5,6,7, meego ro any other os Mar 02 04:53:04 ShadowJK: it touches too much kernel internals Mar 02 04:53:11 well i didnt checked tried yet Mar 02 04:53:12 hm. Mar 02 04:53:13 but.. the last bits (copies/vsync) have been punted off to "not in maemo 5" Mar 02 04:53:24 ShadowJK: it also doesn't support over-2-years-old-ancient kernels Mar 02 04:53:26 luke-jr: huh it doesnt Mar 02 04:53:29 in fact.. i'll quote Mar 02 04:53:38 raster: no need Mar 02 04:53:48 raster: you're talking to yourself, just point to the bug reports if you want to be specific Mar 02 04:53:48 > vsync, tearing and performance. when in fullscreen mode - i get tearing. Mar 02 04:53:48 > eglswapbuffers doesnt sync its swaps (should really use triple buffering Mar 02 04:53:48 > here and queue a swap for next vsync). Mar 02 04:53:48 See bug 5556. Needs newer SGX drivers which will be available only in Mar 02 04:53:48 Harmattan. Mar 02 04:53:51 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5556 when switching desktops, there is some tearing of the image Mar 02 04:53:52 you dont even need to patch the kernel (there is an optional patch) Mar 02 04:53:55 https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9320 Mar 02 04:53:56 Bug 9320: opengl-es2 rendering bugs Mar 02 04:53:59 but it works as external module Mar 02 04:54:03 > 2. doing copies in compositor from back to front buffer (not swaps). Mar 02 04:54:03 Ditto. Mar 02 04:54:05 etc. Mar 02 04:54:10 already piunting it off to harmattan Mar 02 04:54:57 bit pedantic today? Mar 02 04:55:10 crashanddie: you, sir, are a sad excuse for an erogenous zone. Mar 02 04:55:18 so.. you disagree with me and u kick Mar 02 04:55:19 yay! Mar 02 04:55:28 no wonder the maemo community hates nokia Mar 02 04:55:29 classic Mar 02 04:55:30 raster: I don't disagree, I don't want you to flood the bloody channel Mar 02 04:55:44 raster: talk about it all you like, we have povbot, a link to the bug report is enough Mar 02 04:55:54 bug #123 Mar 02 04:55:55 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=123 Dialogs will be transparent as soon as tiping on the top bar Mar 02 04:55:58 bah the pastes are not any more than regular typing. your idea of flood is a bit skewed Mar 02 04:56:12 raster: that was 20 fucking lines Mar 02 04:56:17 20? Mar 02 04:56:18 20 Mar 02 04:56:20 ???? Mar 02 04:56:21 AHAHAHAH Mar 02 04:56:32 3 lines of paste Mar 02 04:56:32 * cehteh counts 8 lines Mar 02 04:56:36 err sorry Mar 02 04:56:36 4 Mar 02 04:56:37 just stfu already -.- Mar 02 04:56:40 hm, can xchat do /ignore with expires? Mar 02 04:56:44 and then another 2 lines Mar 02 04:56:55 ok, 14, _my bad_ Mar 02 04:56:55 ShadowJK: with my rxpd plugin .. not ported yet Mar 02 04:56:59 please revise your elementary arithmetic skills. Mar 02 04:57:11 4 + 2 = 6 Mar 02 04:57:12 PASTE was 4 and 2 Mar 02 04:57:16 the rest i typed myself Mar 02 04:57:20 newb question -> i can't figure out why i get an error when trying to apt-get update from inside scratchbox -- Failed to fetch http://repository.maemo.org/extras/dists/unknown/free/binary-i386/Packages.gz 404 Not Found [IP: 63.80.138.81 80] Mar 02 04:57:27 raster: chill, and take a pill Mar 02 04:57:32 paste limit tends to be 3 Mar 02 04:57:33 ShadowJK: "/ignore -all -replies someone_s_nick" doesn't work with xchat? Mar 02 04:57:34 6 = 3 * 2 Mar 02 04:57:46 if you think that my typing is too fast for youand a flood - well i'm sorry my fingers are faster than your ability to read. my bad. Mar 02 04:57:46 arachnist, "expires" Mar 02 04:57:53 ShadowJK: never? Mar 02 04:57:55 kindergarden Mar 02 04:57:56 hi everybody Mar 02 04:58:02 mmgcs, the "unknown" part looks kinda fishy Mar 02 04:58:04 raster: last warning Mar 02 04:58:05 i have a big problem Mar 02 04:58:11 bobzer_: shoot Mar 02 04:58:14 can i get some hellp ? Mar 02 04:58:20 bobzer_: just ask mate Mar 02 04:58:24 ShadowJK: http://www.pipapo.org/pipawiki/RegexPolicyDaemon/Applications/XChat .. the wiki is a bit broken Mar 02 04:58:29 ok Mar 02 04:58:35 so my phone n900 Mar 02 04:58:38 raster: might inquire w/ Nokia Care for a return; just say it's not as advertised, since they claim it's open source Mar 02 04:58:44 don't want to turn on Mar 02 04:58:56 the battery was totally empty Mar 02 04:59:06 bobzer_: connect it to the wall charger and leave it Mar 02 04:59:09 unfortunally the logo doesnt even come up: http://www.pipapo.org/notroll.png :) Mar 02 04:59:11 crashanddie: what? me defending myself is reason to get kicked? ytou accuse me of a 20 line paste where there were 2 lots totally 6 lines? Mar 02 04:59:12 i put him to charge Mar 02 04:59:18 either way Mar 02 04:59:24 bobzer_, wall charger or usb cable from computer? Mar 02 04:59:29 yes but i don't have the wall charger with me Mar 02 04:59:32 raster: there is no difference between 6 and 20 when it comes to a flood Mar 02 04:59:40 i put with the usb charger Mar 02 04:59:44 you were spouting falsities. nokia are already ditching support for maemo5 - as above in bug reports. Mar 02 04:59:45 to my computer Mar 02 04:59:59 and i think the battery it's full know Mar 02 05:00:05 raster: seriously, please, drop it Mar 02 05:00:07 but when i try ti turn on Mar 02 05:00:09 luke-jr: 4 and 2. as i typed manually in between its not a 6 line paste flood Mar 02 05:00:18 sometime that's do strictly nothing Mar 02 05:00:23 raster: just stfu and return it Mar 02 05:00:23 and other time Mar 02 05:00:24 crashanddie: so you admit they are. ok. Mar 02 05:00:31 so the people bitching about nokia have a good point Mar 02 05:00:45 it begin to load and after a few second it turn off again Mar 02 05:00:54 raster: my plan is to ingore nokia and convince as much as possible developers to buy a n900 and code for it .. nokia will bite in their own arse when they discover that there are no devs for a successor model Mar 02 05:01:12 send me a PM when you've calmed down and you're ready to talk about something else Mar 02 05:01:24 uhm Mar 02 05:01:54 or remind me in 10 minutes to remove the ban if I forget Mar 02 05:02:04 forget it Mar 02 05:02:06 i agree that people bitching about nokia have good grounds for complaint Mar 02 05:02:12 crashanddie: lemme say that i dont think you improve channel quality with your reactions Mar 02 05:02:12 he never again will care Mar 02 05:02:12 bobzer_, that would suggest to me that the battery isn't charged.. and that it isn't charging from PC USB when empty Mar 02 05:02:13 too bad there's no other non-winmo, non-symbian (i dislike these) phone with a reasonable OS (android, maemo, heck, even iphoneos would do) and a good hardware keyboard (no, motorola droid fails here) Mar 02 05:02:23 cehteh: duly noted Mar 02 05:02:43 cehteh: +1 Mar 02 05:02:51 ShadowJK: that's means my phone is empty and i can't charge it ? Mar 02 05:02:53 cehteh++ Mar 02 05:03:20 You want me to remove the ban? Mar 02 05:03:22 bobzer_, I only know that in theory it should switch itself on once there's enough power Mar 02 05:03:37 crashanddie: actually i didnt want you to set it Mar 02 05:03:44 because the orange light is turn on Mar 02 05:03:50 crashanddie: forget it. damage done Mar 02 05:04:11 cehteh: yeah well, I wanted him to stop bitching about the thing continuously. Indeed DocScrutinizer, damage done. I asked him 2 or 3 times to stop about it Mar 02 05:04:12 i think it is kind of sad the way some people will attack dissenters by accusing them of trolling until they get so angry that they *are* trolling Mar 02 05:04:19 a community channel can tolerate some bitching .. and i left a lot channels because of overreacting ops Mar 02 05:04:51 nad rater hardly will ever join here again Mar 02 05:04:52 no one here was really annoyed or attacked .. Mar 02 05:04:56 and raster Mar 02 05:07:18 stupid freenode Mar 02 05:07:55 raster: now? Mar 02 05:08:24 thanks Mar 02 05:08:25 :) Mar 02 05:08:29 let me start again Mar 02 05:08:34 why didn't that first one work? Mar 02 05:09:24 will the middleware (dbus message for mce, bme, .. ) all change for MeeGo? Mar 02 05:09:33 most likely Mar 02 05:09:44 nah, i think it is unlikely Mar 02 05:09:44 i am not here to troll, i'm here to actualyl do useful stuff Mar 02 05:09:52 i write lots of softwre - for embedded Mar 02 05:09:59 it runs like a champ on competitors devices Mar 02 05:10:09 the n900 - it has troubles with - i submit bug reports Mar 02 05:10:10 dunno about M6, but looking at the discussions a lot of people are pushing for the Moblin infrastructure and base Mar 02 05:10:16 hehe means anything we write will be incompatible .. haha Mar 02 05:10:16 i cant send patches - drivers are closed. Mar 02 05:10:40 well i dont care that much :) .. but that will have interesting implications Mar 02 05:10:42 cehteh: well, it's a new framework, so that's to be expected that there will be porting involved Mar 02 05:10:47 nope. raster is not a troll. he's never worked for trolltech Mar 02 05:10:47 but - i also am concerned about the future of the n900 and maemo given that its now not worht me putting effort into debian packaging as i know that in the future that will change Mar 02 05:11:01 how much of my stuff will still work in future without a fair amount of work Mar 02 05:11:01 lpotter: that one is getting old... Mar 02 05:11:05 yes but i dont port anything to meego if i dont have a meego device Mar 02 05:11:07 lpotter: but still "lol" Mar 02 05:11:21 lpotter: hahahahahah Mar 02 05:11:22 cehteh: which I think will be the case for most people Mar 02 05:11:29 lpotter: hey hey! ltns! Mar 02 05:11:31 Somehow I suspect that if debian packaging takes significant "effort", something must be wrong with it and it's a good idea to fix it :) Mar 02 05:11:35 I didn't do that one Mar 02 05:11:36 I promise Mar 02 05:11:36 exactly Mar 02 05:11:57 I barely hit the enter key Mar 02 05:11:59 and that may put some pressure to nokia to support meego on the n900 Mar 02 05:12:17 cehteh: well, a lot of people were developing for M5/N900 before the device was out Mar 02 05:12:27 i dont think nokia has said one way or another for meego on the n900 Mar 02 05:12:30 moblin middleware just isn't that different from maemo, and if anything it is closer to the standard distros Mar 02 05:12:30 cehteh: they just need to target a few key developers, people who do very interesting and high-visibility stuff Mar 02 05:12:33 yes because they planned to buy that device Mar 02 05:12:51 raster, not sure the driver situation is any better on beagleboard either :/ Mar 02 05:12:51 cehteh: oh c'mon, Nokia's given away close to 500 devices Mar 02 05:12:52 but a lot of them certainly dont plan to buy the successor just half an year later Mar 02 05:13:00 prolly even 1000 Mar 02 05:13:00 cehteh: I never paid for mine Mar 02 05:13:12 cehteh: I know two dozen of people who didn't pay for theirs Mar 02 05:13:18 Although I heard there some people actually manage to get hold of the drivers occasionally... binaries, that is Mar 02 05:13:18 i did Mar 02 05:13:34 lets see Mar 02 05:14:00 the developers community is far bigger (and should be far bigger) than this 500-1000 people Mar 02 05:14:08 sure Mar 02 05:14:16 even if someone people just to very little things (like me) Mar 02 05:14:20 Well for me the rumoured capacitive display will be a big hit to usability, plus the rumoured same omap3 platform wouldn't be much of an upgrade... so meh :) Mar 02 05:14:25 nevermind the OS, it's fine as it is.. Mar 02 05:14:37 ~ShadowJK++ Mar 02 05:14:42 ShadowJK: i dont think it is. there's a general upsteram issue and the fact that the base drivers as they come from imgtec need modification to work with x11 - and those mods dont always seems to be done... "optimally" lets say. Mar 02 05:15:02 raster: don't the drivers come from TI? Mar 02 05:15:15 i guess they distribute them.. if you're worthy Mar 02 05:15:38 Stskeeps: didn't you get updated 3D drivers for the N810? Mar 02 05:15:40 raster: do you have access to the imgtec drivers (even with NDA) .. Mar 02 05:15:51 I've heard of 3d drivers existing for SmartQ too, but I don't even have any idea where to start looking for them :) Mar 02 05:16:12 you may try to put some samsung or other driver on the n900 if its not too much pain Mar 02 05:16:19 lpotter: btw - that was my pont to crashanddie - people are complaining because they just bought a brand new device with abrand new os then nokia rolls around announcing a "left turn at Albuquerque" with meego and no firm "we will make meego available for n900 users and provide a forwards compatibility path" i think thats what people want to hear. a commitment to support. Mar 02 05:16:29 crashanddie: well yes and no. Mar 02 05:16:42 well .. other things to do .. bbl Mar 02 05:16:45 raster: I do realise that Mar 02 05:16:48 crashanddie: they come from imgtec, then to ti - nokia somewhere along the way i think get the source and modify them more. Mar 02 05:17:07 cehteh: not the n900 ones - but for another soc i do... :) Mar 02 05:17:26 there is a dim chance that they are compatible if the soc is close enough? Mar 02 05:17:30 raster: think big, lumbering beast Mar 02 05:17:44 of course you can only try privately as proof of concept Mar 02 05:18:04 raster: my initial point was, 5 or 6 years ago i bought a samsung phone. it had issues, but I lived with it. People didn't really care too much about it. New version of the OS? It's a phone dude, that doesn't happen. Mar 02 05:18:09 cehteh: and they wont work a-sis. sgc540 vs 530, differen fb subsystem as its samsung fb vs omap fb - so i'd have to do a fair bit of fiddling with them to get them to work... not tm mentio also get the xorg we work with thats dri2 based etc. Mar 02 05:18:16 Now, Nokia is trying to be open (and for a corporation like nokia that's a very difficult thing to do) Mar 02 05:18:27 and the only thing they get for it being yelled at and bitched at Mar 02 05:18:50 crashanddie: that is indeed true. but things are changing - phones are less "device" and more "computer than makes calls" and thats why platforms are what its all about now - and a platform lasts for more than 1 device. :) Mar 02 05:18:51 my conclusion was thus: no wonder Nokia is dumping the maemo community, considering that most of what they get from it is a lot of shit in their face Mar 02 05:19:19 raster: well, it never did in my mind... Mar 02 05:19:28 lpotter: lumbering beast... gl-es? Mar 02 05:19:35 I knew Maemo 5 would be on Nokia N900 only Mar 02 05:19:53 well, most likely, and that Maemo 6 would most probably not be compatible with the N900 Mar 02 05:20:06 its a pita... TI isnt exactly an open source friendly company, and yet so much OS projects depend on it Mar 02 05:20:21 crashanddie: well its a change. look at android, iphoneos even. iphone os works and ans spans multiple generations of hw - even from apple Mar 02 05:20:22 i guess even nokia cant do much on the contracts they made with TI Mar 02 05:20:23 cehteh, for some things they're friendlier than many ;) Mar 02 05:20:26 sure, "I knew about it" isn't a viable argument, I'm just surprised that kind of info didn't circulate more than that Mar 02 05:20:32 nokia did do multi-gen suport for n800 and 810 Mar 02 05:20:35 770 to a degree Mar 02 05:20:38 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=45213 Mar 02 05:20:40 i think peolpe want more Mar 02 05:20:43 cehteh: afaik, TI isn't the problem anymore Mar 02 05:20:47 cehteh: it's Nokia and ImgTec Mar 02 05:20:55 and yes - u'll have the vocal minority who absolutely must have 100% open everything Mar 02 05:20:55 raster: n810 only one OS, n800 two OSs, 770 3 OSs Mar 02 05:20:56 ShadowJK: there are plenty of cases where TI uses GPL software but doesnt releases the source and so on Mar 02 05:20:58 luke-jr, IVA2 is still closed :) Mar 02 05:21:00 its par of the course Mar 02 05:21:16 luke-jr: for the graphics yes Mar 02 05:21:21 cehteh: if they don't modify it do they have to? Mar 02 05:21:25 ShadowJK: IVA2? Mar 02 05:21:33 cehteh: for something as basic as battery charging Mar 02 05:21:40 but for other things like the camera firmware, broadband and stuff TI is the problem Mar 02 05:21:42 there only people who dont care about n900 road map are people who got free or discounted devices. ppl who paid full wack are more vocal Mar 02 05:22:09 yeah Mar 02 05:22:16 crashanddie: anyway - i'm smack bang in the middle of the evolution from an os u "make work" for a device - ship it and forget vs platforms. its a change in thinking - nokia has to adapt. samsung has to. everyone has to. Mar 02 05:22:23 anotnac: or people who don't consider £500 "full wack" Mar 02 05:22:27 luke-jr, hardware elements for video decode acceleration. Most likely DCT, MC and that stuff. Building blocks Mar 02 05:22:29 i paied full and put much more development efforts (man hours) into it than its worth Mar 02 05:22:51 that gives me the right to bitch about it! Mar 02 05:23:24 raster: ack Mar 02 05:23:25 I've been saying this way too often: "Opinions are like assholes -- everyone's got one. Now that doesn't mean you should shove your up my face, does it?" Mar 02 05:23:44 i dont care about getting new OS on mine i just want it to have the future its being promisede, for that we can only wait Mar 02 05:23:45 s/your/yours/ Mar 02 05:23:46 crashanddie meant: I've been saying this way too often: "Opinions are like assholes -- everyone's got one. Now that doesn't mean you should shove yours up my face, does it?" Mar 02 05:23:51 * luke-jr shoves his opinion down crashanddie's ear. Mar 02 05:23:55 cehteh, SmartQ comes with binary samsung kernel module and a binary patched MPlayer (GPL) for which I've not been able to find source... Not really wanted to ask though, I guess I just like that it works :/ Mar 02 05:24:10 luke-jr: You shoved me in the ear! Mar 02 05:24:24 luke-jr, sometimes I'm glad they keep the battery stuff away from lunatics like you ;-) Mar 02 05:24:25 luke-jr: why the ear? Oh man Mar 02 05:24:29 ShadowJK: then beat raster a bit about the issues :P Mar 02 05:24:33 ShadowJK: f u Mar 02 05:24:33 ShadowJK: gplviolations.org :) Mar 02 05:24:40 yeah Mar 02 05:24:47 cehteh: that kernel didnt come from me :) Mar 02 05:24:52 raster: Linux copyright holders don't enforce it ;( Mar 02 05:24:54 ShadowJK: play nice Mar 02 05:25:03 luke-jr: they should Mar 02 05:25:05 i saied 'a bit' .. maybe you have a little voice there Mar 02 05:25:26 cehteh: not at all. smartq are the people who do the software. and they deal with samsung lsi Mar 02 05:25:31 i work with samsung dmc Mar 02 05:25:35 ah ok Mar 02 05:25:38 and even then just the limo/linu etc. group Mar 02 05:25:44 dont ask abaout bada - not my thing Mar 02 05:25:45 etc. etc. Mar 02 05:25:50 raster, so is your samsung involved in sponsoring the only kind of sports I watch? Mar 02 05:26:00 i cam shape the future of things from this corner Mar 02 05:26:04 haha bada is the worst thing i seen .. yet another completely propietary platform .. Mar 02 05:26:18 and to me - not just following the letter of the license, but the spirit is damned important Mar 02 05:26:20 wtf did they thought/smoke Mar 02 05:26:25 i know i wont get rid of all the closed binary bits Mar 02 05:26:33 but - if the license demands it - it must be open Mar 02 05:26:38 and if tis the right thing to do Mar 02 05:26:58 (bsd or mit-x11 license, but you modified it anyway) you SHOULD publish your soruce Mar 02 05:27:01 anyone having wifi problems with latest update on n900? just stopping working but being connected? Mar 02 05:27:14 but more important than just source... is actively engaging your community - on a develoepr to developer level Mar 02 05:27:27 anotnac: iirc such a bug was fixed there Mar 02 05:27:37 actually talking with them, answering questions, giving direction etc. Mar 02 05:27:41 anotnac, I had that occasionally (well, two times since december) before the upgrade.. hasn't happend since Mar 02 05:28:32 raster: ack Mar 02 05:28:38 i'm getting it daily since 1.1.1 could it be b/c i restored a old back up made from with shipping firmware 42 Mar 02 05:28:47 I know I repeat myself :-P Mar 02 05:29:01 raster: yeah imo nokia needs to *employ* a community manager on the same level as a CTO .. who actualy has the access to tech stuff and decide if it makes sense to publish it Mar 02 05:29:34 * DocScrutinizer hides Mar 02 05:29:41 cehteh: quim doesn't have anything of the level of a CTO Mar 02 05:29:53 I thought they actually have such a manager Mar 02 05:30:00 they do Mar 02 05:30:08 there is no (much) point in having people here who work for nokia but dont have any rights and access, not even communication possibilities Mar 02 05:30:26 cehteh, uh. Mar 02 05:30:30 cehteh, that's not true Mar 02 05:30:45 crashanddie: that what i mean .. a commuminty manager should have enough privileges to do his work Mar 02 05:31:00 cehteh: dude, do you realise how high up CTO is in a company as Nokia? Mar 02 05:31:04 You don't really mean to tell everyone else to piss off, do you Mar 02 05:31:05 ;) Mar 02 05:31:05 made it past what appears to be an incorrect hildon-application-manager.list but am now getting a GPG error - GPG error: http://repository.maemo.org fremantle Release: Couldn't access keyring: 'No such file or directory' Mar 02 05:31:29 if he doesnt know whats going on inside nokia and doesnt know whom to ask Mar 02 05:31:38 cehteh: hell, even in my company CTO is probably as important as CEO, that person doesn't have time to cuddle community people Mar 02 05:32:36 yes i know Mar 02 05:32:53 the problem is cuddles don't fix bugs Mar 02 05:32:59 i wish they did but they don't Mar 02 05:33:13 and neither a community manager nor a CTO will change that Mar 02 05:33:15 cehteh: community manager - agree. or cto or whoever needs to take on that role. either way - someoen with the ability to deicde what to say and who knows the directions etc. Mar 02 05:33:25 yes Mar 02 05:33:26 we have that Mar 02 05:33:27 i've had a few cuddles that spread bugs Mar 02 05:33:30 thats what i meant Mar 02 05:33:45 his name is Quim Gil, and knows more about the platform and future than any of us together Mar 02 05:33:55 i thought they just announced the direction and the direction is "qt 4.6 everywhere, including N900, and even on non-nokia devices" :P Mar 02 05:34:06 and thanks to the stupid reactions of the community, that person has just retired from being a moderator on the forums Mar 02 05:34:15 so congrats, again, Maemo Community, you've done well Mar 02 05:34:20 ShadowJK: ++ Mar 02 05:34:52 crashanddie: Quim is has such a job, but he is clueless because he has not the contacts and rights to make decisions .. at best he just forwards things to some other monkey Mar 02 05:35:13 cehteh: oh please, don't insult him like that Mar 02 05:35:22 An hello to you all. Mar 02 05:35:27 there's a reason OM never had an official forum. Everybody thought clinging with mailing lists would be a sane thing Mar 02 05:35:29 i dont want to insult him .. he does the best job he can do Mar 02 05:35:42 So, who has retired, again? Quim? Mar 02 05:35:54 cehteh: Quim is very well connected. He didn't join Nokia because he happened to stumble across a job offer Mar 02 05:35:56 well no community relations guy who can put to rest speculation on the future of the n900 and meego/maemo - then the speculation will continue and be rife. fud will continue. such a community manager should put to rest such stuff early-on before it grows a life of its own and people actually really believe the fud - and nokia is too late to say otherwise as its not wedged in peoples minds. the fud has filled the position. nokia cant change i Mar 02 05:35:56 t anymore :( Mar 02 05:35:57 i want to insult nokia that they dont give him with enough respect and privileges Mar 02 05:35:58 RST38h: from being a mod Mar 02 05:36:14 crashanddie: Pissed him off one time too many? Mar 02 05:36:33 RST38h: people pissing all over him, saying that there was a conflict of interest with him being a mod and working for nokia Mar 02 05:36:34 quim is in a hard place, if hays too much bosses will be unhappy if he says too little community think nokia are hiding things, its lose lose for him Mar 02 05:36:44 fro quim its prolly a uphill battle .. demands from the community and fight with nokia bureacracy Mar 02 05:36:46 *he says Mar 02 05:36:53 crashanddie: Ah, The Conspiracy again! Mar 02 05:36:58 RST38h: oh ja Mar 02 05:37:39 * lpotter knows what it feels like to be a community manager Mar 02 05:37:52 lpotter: i know you do :) Mar 02 05:38:11 anyway Mar 02 05:38:22 gotta finish expense reports... Mar 02 05:38:22 lpotter: hard place >| you |< rock Mar 02 05:38:39 'later Mar 02 05:38:42 raster: indeed. keyboard. meet head. Mar 02 05:38:42 ciao Mar 02 05:38:43 :) Mar 02 05:39:08 hmm, me remembers a lot of flames for LJP Mar 02 05:39:32 lpotter: it would be easier if u could actually make decisions and change direction - or talk about things "as you see fit" (as opposed to have to get approval for anything you may say :) (beyond a minimal approved subset)) Mar 02 05:41:08 true. but really, the n900/meego thing I think its a matter of resources. Mar 02 05:41:32 everything is, always Mar 02 05:41:58 lpotter: the sooner nokia set that baby to rest, the better. Mar 02 05:42:18 lpotter: me - i'm just mostly observing. my n900 is a toy... until my own toys are out :) Mar 02 05:42:24 do we allocate resources for meego on the n900 and possibly make the next device late? Mar 02 05:42:32 but i'd like to see all the "linux platforms" play nice Mar 02 05:42:32 thus costing lots of $$$ Mar 02 05:42:55 lpotter: you have that few people? Mar 02 05:43:39 * RST38h yawns and points to Stskeeps Mar 02 05:43:45 I wonder how much would be saved on skipping the software "variants" *cough* Mar 02 05:43:47 or you commit to back-porting after next device is released - thus postponing the cost Mar 02 05:43:48 users would rejoice :D Mar 02 05:43:58 Here is your resource, allocated to porting Maemo (and MeeGo I guess) to older devices. Mar 02 05:44:16 there are also planing timeboxes and such Mar 02 05:44:16 Given that MeeGo sources are published of course. Mar 02 05:44:20 RST38h: sure - pay him for it :) Mar 02 05:44:31 that means he's an added resource - and an added cost - like any other employee Mar 02 05:44:31 :) Mar 02 05:44:32 not to mention QA Mar 02 05:44:34 raster: Guess what? Nokia is paying him for it. Mar 02 05:44:44 i thought it was maemo.org stuff? Mar 02 05:44:54 "distmaster" Mar 02 05:45:02 Ok, maemo.org is paying him for it. A technicality. Mar 02 05:45:03 ooh Mar 02 05:45:18 well as long as he has acces to the sources to be able to do it Mar 02 05:45:23 and the time and reosucres - done Mar 02 05:45:37 then why doesnt nokia go "we have Stskeeps on the job of doing that when the time comes" Mar 02 05:45:41 people will be happy Mar 02 05:45:55 people will never be happy Mar 02 05:46:08 raster, he has his own "Don't worry, you're in good hands, and this is why:" thread, not that people read :P Mar 02 05:46:08 well- happier. Mar 02 05:46:09 RST38h: raster: ShadowJK: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=45213 Mar 02 05:46:28 as an example, you can look in the mirror and count the number of lines starting with in the last 5 minutes at this channel. Mar 02 05:47:48 ShadowJK: 98% of nokians know nothing about variants Mar 02 05:48:01 timeless_mbp, I gathered :D Mar 02 05:48:01 in that thread i see Stskeeps asking the same questions everyone else is asking. except you praise him, instead of calling him a troll Mar 02 05:48:01 they're only looked at by perhaps 10 people worldwide :) Mar 02 05:48:10 so, i don't think it saves much 'work' Mar 02 05:48:15 it would save community headaches Mar 02 05:48:20 but it would create sales headaches Mar 02 05:48:24 oh? Mar 02 05:48:25 only problem is if you flash you device with non-nokia official images you void warranty i believe so users still stuck what to do Mar 02 05:48:35 and sales headaches immediately transfer into engineering headaches Mar 02 05:49:15 timeless_mbp: I'd say 10 is a bit of an understatement Mar 02 05:49:22 RST38h: maemo.org isn't an actual entity, so, Nokia is paying. Mar 02 05:49:25 I wonder how flashing a firmware could void the hw waranty Mar 02 05:49:41 MiXu-: i don't think i've met 3 Mar 02 05:49:52 i know there are perhaps 2 testers Mar 02 05:49:58 DocScrutinizer: companies claim things that aren't legal Mar 02 05:49:59 timeless_mbp: Someone has to do translation too :) Mar 02 05:50:03 I *can* see why Nokia hopes this could be established for a common notion though Mar 02 05:50:03 MiXu-: no Mar 02 05:50:11 translation has nothing to do w/ variants Mar 02 05:50:16 and besides, that's not internal Mar 02 05:50:22 timeless_mbp: (I've been mostly idling here) :) Mar 02 05:50:41 Oh, ok. I thought localization was about the same thing as variants. Mar 02 05:50:45 nope Mar 02 05:50:47 totally unrelated Mar 02 05:51:00 variants are about breaking software to satisfy theoretical market constraints Mar 02 05:51:13 So, AT&T ? ;) Mar 02 05:51:20 like "i want to have a link to the Nokia.co.uk privacy policy instead of the Nokia.com policy" Mar 02 05:51:23 after all that's the point where even EE has to change thinking to accomodate FOSS requirements Mar 02 05:51:26 MiXu-: or that Mar 02 05:52:09 very unusual requirement for EE Mar 02 05:52:23 or make that R&D Mar 02 05:52:29 "unbrickable" and indestructible by software? :-) Mar 02 05:52:36 exactly Mar 02 05:52:57 not even by a flawed batchrg driver Mar 02 05:53:04 Fremantle is not quite there yet. lol =) Mar 02 05:53:18 MiXu-, I think it's close Mar 02 05:53:37 RST38h: he just asks questions. provides no answers. Mar 02 05:53:37 is there anything else than the warning about running CPU locked to 600MHz? :-) Mar 02 05:53:40 and people would like answers Mar 02 05:53:53 he asks good questions - Stskeeps is a smaret guya nd knows his stuff Mar 02 05:53:59 but desnt solve the problem Mar 02 05:54:06 * timeless_mbp wonders who 'he' is Mar 02 05:54:20 timeless_mbp: Stskeeps Mar 02 05:54:27 what problem do we have today? Mar 02 05:54:31 Extras-devel has stuff that will more or less break N900 (or at least screw some things up). Mar 02 05:54:38 raster: What answers do you expect on a project that is nothing more than a web site and a mailing list? Mar 02 05:54:42 MiXu-, sure, but it's recoverable with flashing Mar 02 05:54:44 ShadowJK: now that I got schem, I guess I can spot a few more :-P Mar 02 05:54:56 Once the MeeGo sources are published, there will be answers Mar 02 05:54:56 RST38h: mer or maemo? Mar 02 05:55:07 oh meego Mar 02 05:55:08 MeeGo Mar 02 05:55:18 bah. mxr.moego.org :) Mar 02 05:55:24 DocScrutinizer, N8x0 should be easy-ish to explode from software :D Mar 02 05:55:29 thats part of the badly executed announcement for meego Mar 02 05:55:29 ShadowJK: Oh, ok I guess I misunderstood you then. I figured "indestructible" would mean that it has to be usable no matter what. Mar 02 05:55:32 RST38h: do you have any new xchat package planned next time? Mar 02 05:55:39 ShadowJK: lol, really? Mar 02 05:55:41 it creates uncertainty with a big blaring trumpet - with no answers. Mar 02 05:55:45 thus - the situation at hand Mar 02 05:55:58 i totally agree Mar 02 05:56:05 raster: It creates an uncertainty indeed, but YOU bring YOUR OWN trumptet =) Mar 02 05:56:08 MiXu-, no it means salvageable with a PC/Mac and the included acessories ;) Mar 02 05:56:28 cehteh: I will probably have to disable clickable notifications, so yes Mar 02 05:56:30 alright, then it is in pretty good shape. :) Mar 02 05:56:37 cehteh; A lot of people are unhappy about these Mar 02 05:56:42 if meego was announced along with "and here is the plan fro mameo5 to meego and how it will transition - what products wil be supported that are currently maemo 5 etc. etc." it would have been much quieter and more certain Mar 02 05:56:49 MiXu-, instead of needing to access the pads behind the battery with special equipment and special software when you break it Mar 02 05:56:58 raster: such a transition has been announced. Mar 02 05:57:02 raster: err Mar 02 05:57:04 hehe yes i expected that, you know where to change it? Mar 02 05:57:07 if meego was announced like that Mar 02 05:57:09 raster: You just have not read Mar 02 05:57:10 RST38h: mwc201 brought a big loudspeaker :) Mar 02 05:57:16 people would complain "how dare you not consult with us!" Mar 02 05:57:21 people will complain no matter what Mar 02 05:57:29 ShadowJK: Yep. I'm familiar with that stuff. :) Mar 02 05:57:39 its configureable anyways .. echo "NOTIFY_MODE -d" >.xchat2/maemo_notify.conf Mar 02 05:57:40 RST38h: where? where is the bit that involves how the n900 users will be supported? seriously - i want to know. Mar 02 05:57:49 raster: Harmattan stands Debian, with debs, but gets renamed from Maemo6 to MeeGo Mar 02 05:58:01 DocScrutinizer, I almost did it accidentally. Apparently sometimes when the battery daemon decides to abort() (and if I wouldn't have fiddled with R&D mode the device would have reset itself), it does so for a good reason :) Mar 02 05:58:01 raster: Next devices will be fully MeeGo based Mar 02 05:58:16 raster: This has been announced by Quim Gil among other people. Mar 02 05:58:16 thats a name only. its not really meego as it sstill debian Mar 02 05:58:23 * RST38h sighs Mar 02 05:58:39 cehteh: Needs to be set by default or people get lost. Mar 02 05:58:48 RST38h: well another thing, i like to have the window title changed having "XChat: nickname @ network #channel" there .. the "XChat: nickname @" part is quite redundant Mar 02 05:58:49 raster: marketing forced the branding change Mar 02 05:58:52 that's life Mar 02 05:58:55 I'm not overly optimistic that there will be a unified MeeGo in the sense of a distribution :/ Mar 02 05:59:09 ShadowJK: i'd expect it to take 18months minimum Mar 02 05:59:09 RST38h: yes you can just flip a int in the plugin init function Mar 02 05:59:12 timeless_mbp: sure. i understand the why behind it Mar 02 05:59:14 ShadowJK: poor EE performance. Such critical systems have to operate autonomously Mar 02 05:59:15 it should happen Mar 02 05:59:29 ShadowJK: Neither do I, knowing how Intel works. Mar 02 05:59:43 DocScrutinizer, I'm sure it saved money and complexity for the cheapphones :) Mar 02 05:59:44 raster: you'd prefer the announcement include "yes, we're idiots, no, you shouldn't buy our first X products, please wait until we run out of cash" ? Mar 02 06:00:01 that seems like a sound business plan Mar 02 06:00:15 ShadowJK: sure it did, but then OTOH cheapfones aren't FOSS Mar 02 06:00:16 how do i subscribe to your newsletter? Mar 02 06:00:18 i'd prefer the announcement contain answers to the questions raised by Stskeeps Mar 02 06:00:20 maemo_notify_private.dialog_enable = 1; ... = 0; Mar 02 06:00:48 * timeless_mbp would have preferred announcements to be drafted by competent people and presented by people who can speak coherently Mar 02 06:00:51 we all have preferences Mar 02 06:00:59 we're all bound to be disappointed, some more than others Mar 02 06:01:09 By nude blondes, yes Mar 02 06:01:23 RST38h: you missed your chance in Sydney earlier this week Mar 02 06:01:39 a wer meego t-shirt comp to kick it off Mar 02 06:01:40 cehteh: I am not sure about the window title thing: This is how original XChat does it Mar 02 06:01:42 wet Mar 02 06:01:49 RST38h: the window title thing nags me quite much because there is not enough space to read the channel name on my device, can you change that or shall i send you a patch? Mar 02 06:01:53 cehteh: It also happens to be a valid URI ;) Mar 02 06:02:02 DocScrutinizer, so even though I'd want the sauce to this battery soup myself, the thought of random people fiddling with it on their N8x0's is damn scary :) Mar 02 06:02:17 cehteh: I can probably change it, trivially, but am hesitant Mar 02 06:02:25 ShadowJK: so it is on N900 Mar 02 06:02:32 timeless_mbp: well if the end rsult is the same - peole feel they have been lied to and at the end thats worse than coming clean. but i think in the end the push is "we are your userbase - support us with your future os's (within reason) - and if you choose not to - you can watch us walk away as we feel you have screwed us" Mar 02 06:02:35 http://news.google.com/news/story?q=sydney+art&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:unofficial&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&ncl=dTKUSkKcE_fIEwMXKGFOVnUiuQKqM&hl=en&ei=1amMS5L1JYz8-AbV4_TjDQ&sa=X&oi=news_result&ct=more-results&resnum=1&ved=0CAcQqgIwAA Mar 02 06:02:44 uhm i thought about disabling the channel switcher .. but for that one needs the channel name in the title (readable) Mar 02 06:02:49 so if nokia wants to keepits loyal fans it needs to try and make them happy Mar 02 06:02:53 it can choose not to. Mar 02 06:02:54 DocScrutinizer, quickly looking at it, I thought it looked like there's an actual battery charging chip in there :) Mar 02 06:02:57 like, a hardware one Mar 02 06:03:00 but there are consequences. Mar 02 06:03:00 :) Mar 02 06:03:04 yep Mar 02 06:03:10 raster: yeah well Mar 02 06:03:13 cehteh: Channel switcher is pretty decent, in default config Mar 02 06:03:20 just because nokia does X doesn't mean engineering agrees Mar 02 06:03:24 no reason to disable it Mar 02 06:03:34 however Mar 02 06:03:34 RST38h: this is currently something i really want to change, but maybe configureable and retain the current way ba default Mar 02 06:03:37 ShadowJK: so probably another case of sw-devels not up to par with hw/EE Mar 02 06:03:41 what lie do you think you were given? Mar 02 06:03:45 timeless_mbp: i dont say that enigneering is even at fault. :) Mar 02 06:03:50 RST38h: its not with many channels Mar 02 06:03:54 ShadowJK: cargo cult programming Mar 02 06:03:54 letalone agrees/condones Mar 02 06:03:57 (30+) Mar 02 06:04:01 at no point in time has anyone *promised* maemo6 or some other platform would run on the n900 Mar 02 06:04:12 there i believe have been promises about service releases for the n900 Mar 02 06:04:29 scrolling there is very inconvinient and it takes a lot space Mar 02 06:04:33 and occasional leaks about what might be fixed/included in an upcoming service release Mar 02 06:04:43 The last statement that I saw from a nokian said "We don't know" about whether N900 will be supported by Meego. Mar 02 06:04:47 timeless_mbp: no lie - yet. community wants a "support the device i just bought from you with your future os's and you've announced a farily radical os change right after shipping this device - i'd like to know you dont plan to abandon me" Mar 02 06:04:49 (among other things, maps will suck less in the next service release) Mar 02 06:05:06 and maybe you try it scrolling is very slow when you have the tabs style on either side and not tree or top/bottom Mar 02 06:05:08 raster: i don't plan to abandon you for many months Mar 02 06:05:18 that's the best you could possibly get Mar 02 06:05:25 maybe a bug? .. dunno Mar 02 06:05:37 each product nokia has shipped has had at least a 1 year shelf life so far Mar 02 06:05:50 and each product has been relatively useful for another 2 or so years thereafter Mar 02 06:06:03 timeless_mbp: Do you know if navigation will be introduced? Mar 02 06:06:04 i don't know of any top of the line phones which actually last 3 years Mar 02 06:06:09 timeless_mbp: doesnt say much about the whole meego affair - thats what nokia + intel announced specifically to grab attention - so it'd got mine.. now what? :) Mar 02 06:06:12 MiXu-: what's navigation? Mar 02 06:06:30 timeless_mbp: Routing + turn-by-turn guidance Mar 02 06:06:36 timeless: huh .. i expect to use my n900 for the years coming .. Mar 02 06:06:45 MiXu-: the original maps app included routing Mar 02 06:06:47 anyway - thats just what the whole thinbg is about - lack of clear direction Mar 02 06:06:56 raster: i think the goal was to distract attention from competing platforms Mar 02 06:06:56 i loook at mameo news Mar 02 06:07:01 maemo.nokia.org Mar 02 06:07:01 timeless_mbp: my winmo phone had two updates from carrier over the course of 2 years, and the community is still doing cooked roms for it to this day Mar 02 06:07:02 i mean more than 3 years Mar 02 06:07:06 timeless_mbp: Yeah, but it's impossible to use while driving because it doesn't do turn-by-turn guidance. Mar 02 06:07:08 and ask you to join in meego development for the future Mar 02 06:07:18 nothing about meego :( Mar 02 06:07:27 MiXu-: ah well, eh, Mar 02 06:07:36 do i need a car? Mar 02 06:07:40 because i don't have a license Mar 02 06:07:40 I do. :) Mar 02 06:07:42 (or a car) Mar 02 06:08:00 MiXu-, I think the bigger issue is that it doesn't re-calculate the route when you deviate from it, you have to find your own way back instead of, say, being guided back to the route, or taken on an alternate route since you rejected its proposal with your actions :) Mar 02 06:08:20 ShadowJK: That's a major issue as well Mar 02 06:08:21 MiXu-: its strings still suck Mar 02 06:08:27 i can promise you that Mar 02 06:08:30 is that helpful? :) Mar 02 06:08:55 timeless_mbp: Slightly helpful, yes. But it's still not the thing I need. :) Mar 02 06:09:11 timeless_mbp, can you drop hints to the UI people responsible for ovi maps on maemo that their icons are inexplicably cryptic to decipher? ;D Mar 02 06:09:24 Yes they are! Mar 02 06:09:31 what's crytpic about a large and small line? Mar 02 06:09:31 ShadowJK: i literally spelled those hints out months ago Mar 02 06:09:37 _-_ Mar 02 06:09:41 And the UI logic is pretty cryptic as well Mar 02 06:09:49 timeless, ah okay, plan B: slice of lemon wrapped around a brick Mar 02 06:09:52 i think i gave them a list of about 100 problems Mar 02 06:10:01 lol, awesome Mar 02 06:10:02 ShadowJK: the maps people are in Berlin Mar 02 06:10:16 most of you are probably closer to them than i am Mar 02 06:10:25 please feel free to track them down and give them … something Mar 02 06:10:56 finnish beer? Mar 02 06:11:04 get another one Mar 02 06:11:12 ShadowJK: :) Mar 02 06:11:20 and that works for both the misspelling of "finish" and "Finnish" Mar 02 06:11:27 Hmm...the Buzz buzz has quited down Mar 02 06:11:35 No more buzzes, or almost none Mar 02 06:11:52 * timeless_mbp ponders Mar 02 06:11:59 i think i need to shoot them another nastygram Mar 02 06:12:07 Send pupnik with a Molotov cocktail Mar 02 06:12:09 they don't quite understand how 'sheets' are supposed to work Mar 02 06:12:16 they decided to put a sheet *behind* something Mar 02 06:12:25 * timeless_mbp shakes head Mar 02 06:12:47 timeless_mbp, oh, the blue arrow key (Fn) behaves differently in Maps, it's not sticky Mar 02 06:12:48 ShadowJK: decent weed Mar 02 06:12:53 If someone thinks maps ui is good, they obviously never tried it :D Mar 02 06:13:02 ShadowJK: it should behave roughly the same way as in the browser Mar 02 06:13:13 if it doesn't, there's something even more wrong floating around Mar 02 06:13:16 brb Mar 02 06:13:24 * timeless_mbp goes off to hunt a Finn Mar 02 06:14:07 DocScrutinizer, the implication is that .fi beer is a punishment for them Mar 02 06:14:42 maps breaks the UI in so many ways Mar 02 06:14:43 MiXu: Maep UI is good. Mar 02 06:14:44 DocScrutinizer: Finnish beer is generally considered tantamount to piss Mar 02 06:14:55 Maep ui is awesome Mar 02 06:15:01 forex - how do I change away from it while it loads. Mar 02 06:15:01 make them drive all around brandenburg with their own maps only, and NO beverages until they find home Mar 02 06:15:19 :D Mar 02 06:15:20 haha Mar 02 06:15:27 * Stskeeps yawns Mar 02 06:15:37 ShadowJK: Fn key is not sticky in my apps either. It happens when you access keys below the input plugin Mar 02 06:15:40 moin Stskeeps :-D Mar 02 06:15:42 Does maep do routing? Mar 02 06:15:50 backlog containing my nick and 'troll', excellent Mar 02 06:15:58 LOL Mar 02 06:16:00 Stskeeps: not worth reading Mar 02 06:16:00 ShadowJK: In my case, I am processing Gdk Up/Down events Mar 02 06:16:09 timeless_mbp, nope, can't get press fn, release fn, press something else to work as expected (something else producing the blue symbol from that key).. needs to be done as press and hold fn while simultaneously pressing other key.. Mar 02 06:16:11 Stskeeps: Glad you like it =) Mar 02 06:16:16 when i had a finish friend as guest some years ago he hand nothing better to do than getting a map (dead tree variant) and mark any place he drank a beer here :P Mar 02 06:16:40 haha, sounds like a finn ;) Mar 02 06:16:44 Stskeeps, skip it, it's a better morning that way Mar 02 06:16:48 fwiw i'm not doing official work, it's community work and nokia sponsors a community position :P Mar 02 06:16:49 today you prolly set waypoints :) Mar 02 06:16:54 ShadowJK: Now you got him wondering. Mar 02 06:17:01 A more practical Finn would also have written down the prices of pints ;) Mar 02 06:17:17 MiXu-, and calculated alcohol per euro Mar 02 06:17:23 there is not so much variance here Mar 02 06:17:42 and prolly all much cheaper than in finland Mar 02 06:17:46 i'm paid to have the community agenda and ask questions in a constructive way and help things :) Mar 02 06:17:54 Stskeeps: so did you get answers to those three questions yet? Mar 02 06:18:02 ShadowJK: yes :) Mar 02 06:18:14 Stskeeps: elaborate on the "help things" part =) Mar 02 06:18:25 RST38h: not before coffee Mar 02 06:19:08 heh Mar 02 06:19:09 ali1234: Quim's LTS support thread on meego-dev is a fork from some of these Mar 02 06:19:20 Stskeeps: hope you can make a living out of that Mar 02 06:19:27 timeless_mbp, oh, it works after I tap the input field, but not if I just start typing, because the cursor is in the input field and I assume that it should "just work" since the right hting appears to already have focus.. maybe Mar 02 06:19:32 Stskeeps: uh huh. and did he answer any of them? Mar 02 06:20:42 ali1234: my questions are also meant as expectations from community to nokia as a hw vendor in a open project. Mar 02 06:20:58 yeah i get that. so where are the answers? Mar 02 06:21:25 ShadowJK: i'd imagine you could write a browser hosted web page which would suffer the same Mar 02 06:22:01 timeless_mbp, I think with browser the issue I encounter the most often is that I start typing something and then suddenly it's all in the address bar :) Mar 02 06:22:33 ali1234: so why are you asking me? i'm not a nokia official and frankly happy i am not :) Mar 02 06:22:37 ShadowJK: you realize there's a user option for that? Mar 02 06:22:46 timeless_mbp, really? Mar 02 06:22:53 uhuh Mar 02 06:22:55 Stskeeps: WELL DON'T THEY PAY YOU GOOD FOR THE STUFF THAT YOU DO? *"Well, you know, I can' t complain when the checks come through..." ;-P Mar 02 06:23:34 ali1234: that post was made cos people were asking in east and west instead of focusing on the core issue. Mar 02 06:23:41 ShadowJK: if you're using my strings, it's: tap title bar, tap options, tap options, uncheck 'typing triggers urlbar' Mar 02 06:23:50 if you aren't using my strings, i'm sorry Mar 02 06:23:57 timeless_mbp, I'm pretty sure that in 50% of those cases stuff was alreayd appearing in some input box on a web page, and then jumped to the address bar... it's making me doubt my sanity.. possibly I'm already insane ;) Mar 02 06:24:02 Stskeeps: well, like the msg said, i am confused why you get 3000+ thanks for asking these questions but raster catches a bunch of flak Mar 02 06:24:08 ShadowJK: check the checkbox Mar 02 06:24:11 if it's checked.... Mar 02 06:24:35 ali1234: raster has an inflammatory personality at times but he's a cool guy? Mar 02 06:24:51 s/?// Mar 02 06:24:52 DocScrutinizer meant: Stskeeps: WELL DON'T THEY PAY YOU GOOD FOR THE STUFF THAT YOU DO *"Well, you know, I can' t complain when the checks come through..." ;-P Mar 02 06:24:56 "Auto focus address field"... this sounds like a weird bugfix to one of the top voted diablo browser bugs about ^L not giving focus to address bar by default.. Mar 02 06:24:59 bah Mar 02 06:25:00 (i did not read whole backlog) Mar 02 06:25:21 DocScrutinizer: yes, and i think i do a good job too :P Mar 02 06:25:26 ShadowJK: our business owner demanded the feature Mar 02 06:25:29 and demanded it be on by default Mar 02 06:25:38 we tried to explain just how bad of an idea it was Mar 02 06:25:44 I guess the "autofocus" might activate after device inactivity / screen off, that'd explain the "wtf" experience :) Mar 02 06:25:46 the best we got is the option to get rid of the behavior Mar 02 06:26:03 Stskeeps: crashanddie stood on my tail and called me a troll (said i was trolling). Mar 02 06:26:04 :) Mar 02 06:26:07 ShadowJK: screen clearing probably removes focus from the web page input field Mar 02 06:26:25 raster: you are a troll. Just better informed than most trolls. Mar 02 06:26:27 which means that if you try typing, you aren't anywhere, and yeah, autofocus would kick in Mar 02 06:26:31 crashanddie: hahahahahahhaha Mar 02 06:26:37 oops Mar 02 06:26:41 SpeedEvil: hahahahahahaha Mar 02 06:26:47 raster: and you weren't? Mar 02 06:26:52 i wasnt Mar 02 06:26:59 what SpeedEvil said ;) Mar 02 06:27:04 * RST38h thinks of ducks Mar 02 06:27:30 raster: now that little gnome in that appartment in TPE was *you*?! ;-) Mar 02 06:27:39 http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=troll Mar 02 06:27:42 timeless_mbp, I'm usually not that bad at finglish, but nokia is really good at pushing the envelope here... :-) Mar 02 06:28:07 ShadowJK: upgrade to my strings Mar 02 06:28:13 didnt use ad hominem comments nor did i say anything that doesnt have substance Mar 02 06:28:30 didnt do it to cause maximum disruption Mar 02 06:28:54 raster: you didn't do it to cause maximum disruption? Mar 02 06:28:59 what result were you expecting? Mar 02 06:29:04 actually expressed agreement with other people with an opinion that crashanddie was railing at quite rudely Mar 02 06:29:07 is the claim that it was minimal disruption because of the time of day? Mar 02 06:29:57 ie "I say, fuck Maemo as a community Mar 02 06:30:11 ok Mar 02 06:30:19 timeless_mbp: standing up for the people he was saying "fuck you" to. Mar 02 06:30:38 because they in general have a legitimate concern he happens tonot agree with. Mar 02 06:30:41 anyway Mar 02 06:30:44 i wasnt trolling Mar 02 06:31:03 raster: had a bit of sarcasm, sorry :) Mar 02 06:31:32 if the result of disagreeing with someopne who has ops is to be labelled a troll - perhaps i should bow out of maemo entirely as it seems people with dissenting opinions are not desired. :) Mar 02 06:32:00 raster: a publically traded can't say meego on X will come when X's ARM port is in bootstrapping phase Mar 02 06:32:13 +company Mar 02 06:32:36 they'll do this when they know they can delivery Mar 02 06:32:40 -y Mar 02 06:32:44 fwiw i think community meego on n900 will be a lot easier than what mer project has previously had to deal with Mar 02 06:32:47 Stskeeps: at least a statement of intention to do it would help. :) Mar 02 06:32:51 anyway. Mar 02 06:33:21 its just people want a "there there. it'll be all right. no one's going to hurt you" from nokia - one that feels like it has meaning Mar 02 06:33:39 sure - shit happens. they lose people, have delays, things go wrong - things become late. Mar 02 06:33:46 and sue their asses if they were wrong? :P Mar 02 06:33:51 as long as there is intent to do good - thats a big plus :) Mar 02 06:33:54 raster: i don't worry cos we have very open channels to get things running Mar 02 06:34:10 Stskeeps: These open channels. Mar 02 06:34:16 Stskeeps: are they blood gutters? Mar 02 06:34:35 in meego, nokia would be a hw vendor and has to act like a responsible ones Mar 02 06:34:47 SpeedEvil: :-P Mar 02 06:35:17 i think even if nokia came straight out and said "we will not do it, sorry" that would be less damaging than remaining silent Mar 02 06:36:01 they do that at times. see fremantle alpha sdk Mar 02 06:36:15 er, pre alpha Mar 02 06:36:46 thats fair enough Mar 02 06:36:53 well, sure, but maemo was a lot smaller back then, and the new hardware actually did new things Mar 02 06:37:12 or even saying "we intend to provide the tools to the community to be able to support themselves" Mar 02 06:37:18 eg drivers etc. etc. Mar 02 06:37:23 adding a phone to the mix is a much bigegr change than just adding a capacitive screen or w/e Mar 02 06:37:43 raster: hence my questions and discussion we need to have Mar 02 06:38:13 Stskeeps: go do it! :) seen the q's - i think the community is after answers to just such q's. :) Mar 02 06:38:48 and - until there are.. i suspect there is little u can do for people inventing whatever truth they come up with :) (fact of life on this here internets thing) :) Mar 02 06:38:48 * RST38h sighs again Mar 02 06:38:49 raster: um Mar 02 06:38:57 raster: i fully intend to - but noone picked up on LTS thread on meego-dev Mar 02 06:39:00 didn't nokia eventually get drivers for certain older things? Mar 02 06:39:29 timeless_mbp: still no battery driver last i checked for n800? no? yes? am i wrong? Mar 02 06:39:47 or well no open one so upgrading kernels is... problematic Mar 02 06:39:54 i know wifi came out Mar 02 06:39:56 sorry Mar 02 06:39:56 that was good Mar 02 06:40:05 you want a way to make your n800 into a bomb? Mar 02 06:40:05 raster: bme is accessible for distribution (userland) if asked nicely Mar 02 06:40:21 i don't really think nokia needs the press from you doing that Mar 02 06:40:22 thanks. Mar 02 06:40:30 raster: we have 2.6.33 on n8âx0 Mar 02 06:40:44 wifi was only blocker Mar 02 06:40:47 Stskeeps: aaah so u need to sign up an nda basically? Mar 02 06:40:48 * timeless_mbp wonders what character set Stskeeps is using Mar 02 06:41:04 timeless, it's just fat fingers Mar 02 06:41:38 or it looks like that Mar 02 06:41:43 raster: nah, nokia-binaries style eula prolly. noone asked for distribution yet Mar 02 06:42:42 timeless_mbp: so i'm correct. it wasnt made public. justifying it doesnt change that it is problematic for continued community support. Mar 02 06:42:43 licensing changes queue at http://wiki.maemo.org/Open_development/Licensing_change_requests Mar 02 06:43:01 Stskeeps: hmm ok - but its still a kernel module - right? Mar 02 06:43:06 raster: no Mar 02 06:43:27 raster: if you're going to talk crap about people, try not to highlight them Mar 02 06:43:28 wifi was only closed .ko Mar 02 06:43:48 raster: i'm strongly opinionated, please do raise it to me, but don't go talking about me to other people Mar 02 06:44:31 morning dneary Mar 02 06:44:40 morning Mar 02 06:44:43 raster: and don't quote out of context, thank you very much Mar 02 06:44:57 crashanddie: ooh so you are off topic. i must ban any mention of you ever? Mar 02 06:44:57 Stskeeps, Not in for long... you around later? Mar 02 06:45:06 peolpe can scroll back for that Mar 02 06:45:12 you hate pastes Mar 02 06:45:19 so i cant quote in context Mar 02 06:45:20 :) Mar 02 06:45:27 http://gizmodo.com/5483255/topeka-kansas-changes-name-in-attempt-to-get-googles-gigabit-fiber Mar 02 06:45:34 raster: there's logging on this channel for a reason Mar 02 06:45:45 Stskeeps: hmm so there must be some kernel side battery control logic somewhere Mar 02 06:45:59 * timeless_mbp starts Mer^2 Mar 02 06:46:03 crashanddie: then id doesnt matter if i mention you - you can read the logs. Mar 02 06:46:18 Stskeeps: screen size is a bit big Mar 02 06:46:19 dneary: yeah, all day, anything you'd like to discuss? Mar 02 06:46:21 serial renamers Mar 02 06:46:25 timeless_mbp: yeah agreed Mar 02 06:46:36 raster: nop, all in bme Mar 02 06:46:44 Stskeeps, It starts with me and ends with go Mar 02 06:47:01 Stskeeps: lol, the troll shares your first name Mar 02 06:47:05 dneary: fair enough - poke me before 16 polish time Mar 02 06:47:14 Stskeeps: are guest additions installed, or do i get to do that? Mar 02 06:47:26 OK Mar 02 06:47:48 timeless_mbp: not preinstalled Mar 02 06:48:24 Stskeeps: as i said above - the arsehole calls me a troll - without understanding its meaning (and being the one to verbally abuse the community). Mar 02 06:48:30 hey, there's no /floppy Mar 02 06:48:38 * timeless_mbp wanted to mount /dev/cdrom /floppy Mar 02 06:48:54 i'm getting the drift that this amemo community is a bit of a sesspit and it's time to leave it to fester on its own. Mar 02 06:49:12 raster: finally, you've caught on :) Mar 02 06:49:14 raster: :nod: Mar 02 06:49:20 Well - poking stuff with sticks doesn't help. Mar 02 06:49:29 * RST38h yawns at raster Mar 02 06:49:30 Whatever the state of that stuff. Mar 02 06:49:52 Ah, stop ranting already. Do something useful. Mar 02 06:49:59 I hope things get less poisonous when there is movement on meego. Mar 02 06:50:05 ==> work Mar 02 06:50:07 Stskeeps: eww, /tmp isn't friendly to guest additions Mar 02 06:50:23 SpeedEvil: lol Mar 02 06:50:40 ShadowJK: yeah - doesn't seem likely. Mar 02 06:51:50 timeless_mbp: it's fremantle in the good and bad Mar 02 06:51:51 :P Mar 02 06:52:06 hi Mar 02 06:52:12 it's me again Mar 02 06:52:15 yeah yeah, TMPDIR is my friend Mar 02 06:52:21 with my problem Mar 02 06:52:25 * timeless_mbp goes to find the wiki page that lists the pkg's to install Mar 02 06:52:55 my phone doesn't want to start Mar 02 06:53:19 when i success to turn on it load and stop Mar 02 06:53:50 to finally turn off and stay with a white screen where it's write nokia Mar 02 06:53:57 and no backlight Mar 02 06:54:54 somebody can help me ? Mar 02 06:54:55 please Mar 02 06:55:32 Stskeeps: do i want -common instead of -generic? Mar 02 06:55:59 "load and stop"? Mar 02 06:56:02 bobzer_: hold the power button for 10 seconds Mar 02 06:56:12 and ? Mar 02 06:56:21 and see what happens Mar 02 06:56:53 strictly nothing Mar 02 06:57:26 hmm. when did this start happening? Mar 02 06:57:31 bobzer_: yellow idicator LED? Mar 02 06:57:50 since this morning Mar 02 06:58:00 and yes the indicator is orange Mar 02 06:58:09 and don't blink Mar 02 06:58:15 timeless_mbp: context please Mar 02 06:58:21 nope, looks like i want -686 Mar 02 06:58:25 http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer/Documentation/Installation#Installation_in_VirtualBox Mar 02 06:58:28 so it's probably just a very drained battery, and needs several hoers to recharge Mar 02 06:58:33 sudo apt-get install build-essential linux-headers-*kernel-version*-generic Mar 02 06:58:40 'generic' should be '686' today Mar 02 06:58:51 think it's 686 Mar 02 06:59:08 686 worked Mar 02 06:59:16 hrm, 'shutdown -r now' doesn't work Mar 02 06:59:39 bobzer_: let it charge for some hours Mar 02 06:59:40 the phone it's plus to my computer Mar 02 06:59:49 timeless_mbp: not sure which package has that one Mar 02 06:59:50 it charge all the day Mar 02 07:00:12 bobzer_: use the wallcharger, not your computer Mar 02 07:00:26 i don't have the wall charger with me Mar 02 07:00:27 oh, shutdown exists, it just doesn't seem to be helpful Mar 02 07:00:30 * timeless_mbp tries shutdown -r +1 Mar 02 07:01:10 i can do nohing without the wall charger ? Mar 02 07:01:15 hmm, so it may have additional problems with your USB host possibly shutting down on suspend Mar 02 07:01:19 please says me it's possible Mar 02 07:01:30 bobzer_: iz Mar 02 07:01:36 iz ? Mar 02 07:01:36 timeless_mbp: not sure 'reboot' is there Mar 02 07:01:37 it should work as well Mar 02 07:02:08 as long as you PC doesn't suspend Mar 02 07:02:34 it isn't Mar 02 07:02:52 my phone it's really strange Mar 02 07:03:00 i just unplugged Mar 02 07:03:11 and now the indicator is blinking Mar 02 07:03:26 like if it was in charge Mar 02 07:04:31 continuous yellow is a mere hw-indicator running from charger chip to LED Mar 02 07:04:49 it overrides whatever the system might do to the LED Mar 02 07:05:07 ok Mar 02 07:05:09 out of here Mar 02 07:05:15 so long and thanks for al the fish Mar 02 07:05:15 raster: cya Mar 02 07:06:30 DocScrutinizer: so why the led is blinking and the phone it's not plug ?? Mar 02 07:06:34 this channel is about as appetising as a rotten sardine sandwich thanks to some particular askects of its community Mar 02 07:06:52 * ShadowJK 'd disconnect phone, remove battery for a minute, put battery back in, connect cable, and do nothing for a few hours Mar 02 07:07:12 and the power button do nothing Mar 02 07:07:17 i can't turn off Mar 02 07:07:42 ShadowJK: i already try this Mar 02 07:08:58 bobzer_: bat too low, system isn't completely booted. Keep it charging until the bat has enough power to boot up Mar 02 07:08:59 morning tekojo! Mar 02 07:09:23 bobzer_: which is what we've been telling you for the past couple of hours Mar 02 07:09:55 but the phone stayed plug to charge since 2pm Mar 02 07:10:55 what is the meaning of the indicator when the led is orange and not blinking Mar 02 07:11:36 * timeless_mbp2 grumbles Mar 02 07:11:42 adium is not being cooperative Mar 02 07:11:51 bobzer_: [2010-03-02 08:04:31] continuous yellow is a mere hw-indicator running from charger chip to LED Mar 02 07:12:43 DocScrutinizer: i don't entirely agree with that statement Mar 02 07:12:45 but normally when is charging its binking no ? Mar 02 07:12:45 bobzer_: so yellow/orange non-blinking is a quite decent indicator it's actually charging Mar 02 07:12:56 Stskeeps: not? Mar 02 07:13:06 oh something change Mar 02 07:13:14 DocScrutinizer: as i know, all the magic happens in either nolo, init scripts (see BME event.d script) and BME Mar 02 07:13:15 it turn off itself Mar 02 07:13:21 rumble one time Mar 02 07:13:28 and now it's blinking Mar 02 07:13:43 blinking means; I'm charging Mar 02 07:13:51 Stskeeps: I spotted a circuit to switc red+green from charger chip Mar 02 07:13:53 now i see the nokia logo Mar 02 07:14:03 Stskeeps: do i need some magical thing to get the modules loaded? Mar 02 07:14:14 bobzer_: does it boot up? Mar 02 07:14:26 no Mar 02 07:14:28 bobzer_: otherwise you don't have enough juice in the phone to run Mar 02 07:14:42 nothing happen when i push the putton power Mar 02 07:14:49 bobzer_: which means -> leave it to charge for about ten-fifteen minutes and then you're good to go Mar 02 07:15:05 i hope Mar 02 07:15:14 it's been stated TIME and TIME AGAIN that the charger for N900 is a CHARGER not a PSU. Mar 02 07:15:28 but i really don't think it's true because i already try Mar 02 07:15:33 timeless_mbp2: hmm, not sure, it doesn't show up in lsmod? Mar 02 07:15:49 he said hes had it on charge for hours already earlier Mar 02 07:15:56 Stskeeps: V1301, v1302, v1303, N1140 Mar 02 07:16:06 doesn't seem to, what would it be called? Mar 02 07:16:22 timeless_mbp2: "shirley" for sure! Mar 02 07:16:31 * timeless_mbp2 prefers sue Mar 02 07:16:36 >:) Mar 02 07:16:38 timeless_mbp2: sec Mar 02 07:17:13 tybollt: N1140 *is* a charger chip Mar 02 07:18:56 anotnac: aiui that was PC. And even on wallcharger N900 tends to ignore first plug-event and not notice the charger Mar 02 07:19:16 anotnac: really annoying, bites me as well sometimes Mar 02 07:19:18 * mece agrees. You often have to plug it in twice. Mar 02 07:19:33 he as no wall charger i think he said too Mar 02 07:19:38 DocScrutinizer: i might be wrong of course Mar 02 07:19:54 timeless_mbp2: /etc/rcS-modules.conf is a newline seperated list of modules to load on startup Mar 02 07:19:59 Stskeeps: I just deduce from schematics Mar 02 07:20:29 enosuchfile Mar 02 07:20:29 * mece always checks that at least something is blinking after it's plugged in. Mar 02 07:20:33 timeless_mbp2: you make it :) Mar 02 07:20:40 DocScrutinizer: sure the charging chip isn't handling LEDs too? Mar 02 07:20:41 what's the name of the module? Mar 02 07:20:47 well, i hoped you'd know :P Mar 02 07:21:01 Stskeeps: It *is*, as I mentioned above Mar 02 07:21:17 DocScrutinizer: ah, we talked past eachother then Mar 02 07:21:28 modprobe vboxguest failed :( Mar 02 07:21:49 i thoght it looked like charging chip can only make yellow Mar 02 07:25:13 ShadowJK: exactly Mar 02 07:25:42 red+green=yellow Mar 02 07:25:58 but led doesnt blink when screen is on, so software can tell the charging chip to do whatever, I guess. Mar 02 07:26:35 It can tell the chip to stop the yellow-signal, yes seems correct Mar 02 07:26:53 Is it an RGB-led btw? Mar 02 07:26:58 yes Mar 02 07:27:13 Ok. I was just wondering because I've never seen it red Mar 02 07:28:17 MiXu-: orange... :) Mar 02 07:28:27 (red + some green) :) Mar 02 07:28:55 +blue=white ;-) Mar 02 07:29:17 Yeah. Well I thought there might be 3 different colored leds. blue+yellow+green. Mar 02 07:29:26 It wouldn't have made much sense though Mar 02 07:29:47 mine flickers red when i remove charger Mar 02 07:29:48 MiXu-: that could be the case... :) Mar 02 07:29:56 it's 3 LEDs, just they are blue, green, and red Mar 02 07:30:09 right Mar 02 07:30:11 dunno - but if ua re going to have 3 colors.. r, g and b let u make any color u like... (well most - lets not talk color specrta/ranges) :) Mar 02 07:31:10 it's an rgb led?!?! Awesome! Min is going to be pink tonight! Mar 02 07:31:15 mine even Mar 02 07:31:29 actually mirror app should shine the ind.LED red Mar 02 07:31:40 it doesn't :-( Mar 02 07:32:05 mece, wait a second Mar 02 07:32:28 wot? Mar 02 07:32:31 i did nothing and now it come back to a non blinking led and a the logo of nokia Mar 02 07:33:06 * mece is waiting a second. Mar 02 07:33:18 nah, to silly. I planned to post you the pattern, but actually I simply changed RGB to RB Mar 02 07:33:50 DocScrutinizer, aren't we talking regular rgb patterns? Mar 02 07:33:53 for the breating light pattern in mce.init Mar 02 07:34:09 We definitely need an application that cycles through all kinds of colors ;) Mar 02 07:34:20 to bad that only 2 engines are available for the blinking .. i want a rainbow pattern Mar 02 07:34:20 i wonder Mar 02 07:34:31 maybe the led should be expoed as another x display Mar 02 07:34:33 another screen Mar 02 07:34:38 :0.0 and :1.0 Mar 02 07:34:43 :1.0 is 1x1 pixel Mar 02 07:34:46 haha Mar 02 07:34:57 it makes sense tho Mar 02 07:35:00 what's an example of the pattern now then? I mean what's the format? Mar 02 07:35:07 * ShadowJK wonders if trying to start on empty battery counts towards the too-many-resets counter... Mar 02 07:35:07 if you expand the idea that devices may have multiple display areas Mar 02 07:35:17 cehteh: I'll come up with a rainbow pattern eventually. It holds for 30min or somesuch, when kbd slider closed Mar 02 07:35:19 mece there is a 'led-pattern-editor' Mar 02 07:35:23 they may have 2nd lcd's on the back or inside/outside Mar 02 07:35:33 or even arrays of led's to display images/patterns Mar 02 07:35:36 a lot of japanese phones do that Mar 02 07:35:45 DocScrutinizer: you need all 3 engines for a true rainbow pattern Mar 02 07:35:54 korean ones too Mar 02 07:35:58 cehteh: I'll use all 3 Mar 02 07:36:27 ah yes i can do that too .. but its not valid for mce Mar 02 07:36:41 ~lart mce Mar 02 07:36:42 * infobot raises middle finger to mce Mar 02 07:36:44 thu shal not use ta 3rd engine Mar 02 07:37:12 otherwise sure .. i can programm anything manually Mar 02 07:37:33 actually I thought about using SElinux rules to keep mce from messing with 3rd engine Mar 02 07:37:41 haha Mar 02 07:37:53 does the kernel have SElinux enabled Mar 02 07:38:07 hey nokia left already all useful things out Mar 02 07:38:10 http://phonewebz.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/picture-15.png Mar 02 07:38:12 like that Mar 02 07:38:20 clocks - messages etc. on the covers Mar 02 07:38:23 it's utterly stupid to waste an engine for a simple kbd backlight switching that can be done via sw easily Mar 02 07:38:29 so.. why not have the led as a pixel on a screen Mar 02 07:38:39 its a degenerate subset of all the other examples Mar 02 07:38:40 :) Mar 02 07:38:45 DocScrutinizer: btw you missed my yesterday morning hack: Mar 02 07:38:52 so.. gtkmm is built stripped down for maemo it appears. Or am I missing something? Mar 02 07:39:02 [10:41] sshfs -o nonempty ct@public.pipapo.org:n900 /media/mmc1/DCIM Mar 02 07:39:02 [10:41] ... aussm fenster fotographier-test Mar 02 07:39:02 [10:42] http://public.pipapo.org/ Mar 02 07:39:32 cehteh, that was impressive :) Mar 02 07:39:35 cehteh: you really think I missed that? Mar 02 07:40:11 maybe no .. at least you didnt responed i think .. Mar 02 07:40:21 no, I didn't Mar 02 07:40:24 respond Mar 02 07:40:30 or i was tired Mar 02 07:41:25 well *that* is something i'll show off someone with an iphone :P Mar 02 07:41:34 actually I wondered if I could spot the town you're living Mar 02 07:41:49 Karlsruhe Mar 02 07:42:31 when you look close you can read "Rathaus West" on the building :P Mar 02 07:42:38 ooh Mar 02 07:43:01 and the pic might be even geotagged if suppl.nokia wasnt down Mar 02 07:43:01 Guest02344: it's no good manner spamming IRC server addresses through queries :P Mar 02 07:43:40 errr? Mar 02 07:44:38 that user is sending a message to incoming users advertising some IRC network. Mar 02 07:45:12 worth a kline .. or a kickban .. where is crashanddie when we need him? :P Mar 02 07:45:15 remind me again, why doesnä't n900 ship with ogg Mar 02 07:45:28 mece: because it's hard to pronounce? :D Mar 02 07:45:31 mece: installable .. devel or testing or whatever Mar 02 07:45:53 cehteh, taht was not my question. It's not something that bothers me, I'm just curious Mar 02 07:46:07 obviously I have no problems clicking "install ogg support". Mar 02 07:46:15 mece: legal issues Mar 02 07:46:18 haha Mar 02 07:46:26 cehteh: uhm. does that sshfs command mount the DCIM folder online in a folder you're serving via a webserver? As in, everytime you make a picture, it shows up there and if people access it they access your n900? Mar 02 07:46:42 mece: will be "fixed" in the Harmattan Mar 02 07:46:45 kulve, but what legal issues? I mean it's gpl afaik. How could there be legal issues? Mar 02 07:46:58 i think i read harmattan will get ogg support as a default format Mar 02 07:47:07 (l)gpl doesn't mean there couldn't be patent issues Mar 02 07:47:11 Shapeshifter: other way around it mounts the webserver on my n900 Mar 02 07:47:43 for mp3 you can just pay somebody to "get rid of" the patent issues, but you can't do the same with ogg/vorbis Mar 02 07:47:46 but heh what you suggested would be possible too .. just a bit bad for performance Mar 02 07:47:56 and now it's completely turn off Mar 02 07:48:05 so i think it doesnt charge anymore Mar 02 07:48:44 in theory i could setup n900.pipapo.org ... tunnel that through vpn on a webserver on the device :) Mar 02 07:48:53 but uhm .. i really dont want that Mar 02 07:49:10 bobzer do you have any other phones Mar 02 07:49:14 kulve, ok thanks. Mar 02 07:49:22 i one other yes Mar 02 07:49:29 why ? Mar 02 07:49:34 what kind Mar 02 07:49:35 wtf is up with ftp.gnome.org. Is it always slow? Mar 02 07:49:49 its hosted on a n900 too :) Mar 02 07:49:58 the other phone is a htc s710 and Mar 02 07:50:00 possibly. Mar 02 07:50:03 it's lock Mar 02 07:50:13 i can't use my sim card inside Mar 02 07:51:14 anotnac: what are you thinking ? Mar 02 07:51:31 if you can get some1 with a 5800 to charge your battery it will as normal after that Mar 02 07:51:35 gnome is hosted by the academic computer club of UmeÃ¥. Mar 02 07:52:11 a ok but it's not the same battery Mar 02 07:52:25 bobzer_: either it charged enough so you could start it now, or your host PC cut power to USB Mar 02 07:52:56 i already charge with my computer Mar 02 07:53:06 you shouldn't have to resort to alien charging. After all that's not a Neo Freerunner A5 Mar 02 07:53:06 so i don't think it cut the power Mar 02 07:53:16 they are same batteries bobzer Mar 02 07:53:17 bobzer_, don't you have a wall charger? the computer charging takes years. Mar 02 07:53:28 i'm in vacation Mar 02 07:53:36 and thought i neddn't the wall charger Mar 02 07:53:45 bobzer_, right. bummer Mar 02 07:53:51 because i have my computer and the cable Mar 02 07:54:00 and i just try to turn on Mar 02 07:54:10 stay press the button for more than 10sec Mar 02 07:54:17 and strictly nothing happens Mar 02 07:54:24 there are usb wallchargers for 5 bucks in every second gas station Mar 02 07:54:33 bobzer_, there is some problems with charging from a computer and some compiuters' powersaving modes. Mar 02 07:54:58 mece: didn't I say exactly that? Mar 02 07:55:09 it's strange Mar 02 07:55:20 thank's guy to try to help Mar 02 07:55:22 DocScrutinizer, it's possible. I haven't been paying attention :) Mar 02 07:55:24 If your battery is completely empty, I think that a PC will only charge at 100mA until N900 can boot. Mar 02 07:55:36 i'am really upset and disapointed by this phone Mar 02 07:55:38 -> It'll take a long time until there's enough power to boot. Mar 02 07:55:39 MiXu-: exactly Mar 02 07:55:39 Wasn't there some problem with USB and generic chargers? I.e., something the charger has to conform to according to the spec, but not everyone does? Mar 02 07:55:47 and the worst it's i really really need Mar 02 07:55:56 bobzer_: Just let it charge for like 15 minutes in peace Mar 02 07:56:15 with steady yellow Mar 02 07:56:19 MiXu-: it's what i tried all the day Mar 02 07:56:34 The 100mA chargin is a limitation of USB standard Mar 02 07:56:34 no right now it's like dead Mar 02 07:56:51 led off and nothing append if i press the button Mar 02 07:57:24 How long have you had it plugged in without touching it? Mar 02 07:57:29 bobzer_: so remove bat, wait 1min, insert and hook up to charger again Mar 02 07:57:53 is the battery very cold? Mar 02 07:58:13 the battery is cold yes Mar 02 07:58:13 dunno if that works with lipo .. but making it handwarm helps with other bats Mar 02 07:58:25 does n800 kernel have gadgetfs support? Mar 02 07:58:32 put it in a pocket for a few minutes Mar 02 07:58:38 MiXu-: i let it charge maybe 3 or 4h without do anything Mar 02 07:58:54 and more but with trying to o some thing Mar 02 07:58:55 with steady yellow? Mar 02 07:59:34 Ok. Sounds like some hardware problem then. Try what DocScrutinizer suggested. Mar 02 07:59:36 yes i plug again a now it's yellow Mar 02 07:59:40 but not blnking Mar 02 07:59:57 so don't touch for 1h Mar 02 08:00:06 ok Mar 02 08:00:25 but i think it will begin to blink soon Mar 02 08:00:36 and rumble and start it self Mar 02 08:00:40 like before Mar 02 08:00:46 that's a good sign actually Mar 02 08:00:49 but when it start Mar 02 08:00:59 it stay at the nokia's logo Mar 02 08:01:13 once it starts blinking it means its charging and you'll get white logo with charger symbol Mar 02 08:01:14 speaking of batteries, I appear to be dangerously hooked on battery coffeed Mar 02 08:01:31 that's a system issue then, I'd guess Mar 02 08:01:37 not realted to bat Mar 02 08:01:52 i don't know Mar 02 08:02:40 mece: It's awesome! Mar 02 08:02:42 my friend whos macbook overdrained his battery went to a phone shop and they did an "emergency charge" on the battery. Has worked fine ever since. Mar 02 08:02:48 i found this befoe ask you i think its the same problem : http://maemo.org/community/maemo-users/n900_charging_problems/ Mar 02 08:02:50 MiXu-, quite. Dangerously so. Mar 02 08:03:06 bobzer_: whatever happens, keep it charging for one hour Mar 02 08:03:12 ok Mar 02 08:03:33 * mece is recompiling gtkmm for maemo, because he got tired of the missing propertiy_ variables. Mar 02 08:03:47 even better, keep charging until green light Mar 02 08:03:59 i'm right Mar 02 08:04:08 it just rumble and turn on Mar 02 08:04:14 and now it's blinking Mar 02 08:04:21 with the nokia's logo Mar 02 08:04:33 so ok, it's charging regularly I guess Mar 02 08:04:34 leave it now for a hour Mar 02 08:04:52 yes but i know it will turn off soon Mar 02 08:04:57 in 2 hours it should be 100% charged Mar 02 08:05:14 yes but this thing i already do Mar 02 08:05:21 bobzer_, I think the problem is that it will try to turn itself on with too little battery, draining it again. Mar 02 08:05:32 if the yellow blinking stops then that's probably an issue with your PC Mar 02 08:05:36 mece: it's possible Mar 02 08:05:52 DocScrutinizer: that's also possible Mar 02 08:05:57 but what can i do ?? Mar 02 08:06:04 except depress Mar 02 08:06:13 i already do this Mar 02 08:06:28 bobzer_, well as I said, you can go to a phone shop and ask them to emergency charge the battery. (One that sells nokia phones) Mar 02 08:06:28 DocScrutinizer: The 2 hour rule only applies to the wall charger Mar 02 08:06:45 MiXu-: yep Mar 02 08:07:04 mece: i'll try tomorrow if i can't fix tonight Mar 02 08:07:04 actually via USB host it's more like 3h Mar 02 08:07:10 bobzer_, what kind of computer are you using? Mar 02 08:07:32 DocScrutinizer: Yes, _if_ the PC configures the USB connection right and gives full power Mar 02 08:07:54 With 100mA (unconfigured USB) it'll take 14 hours or so. Mar 02 08:07:58 bobzer_: I suggest you unplug and replug USB right now Mar 02 08:08:22 Another USB port in PC might also help Mar 02 08:08:33 i have a laptop Mar 02 08:08:34 asus Mar 02 08:08:35 give it a minute to settle after unplug Mar 02 08:08:47 and you want i unplug now ? Mar 02 08:08:52 yep Mar 02 08:08:57 oh the led change Mar 02 08:09:01 is it still charging blinking Mar 02 08:09:03 w00t! just got my n900 out of its box, charging now Mar 02 08:09:05 do not press any button on N900 Mar 02 08:09:05 it's still orange Mar 02 08:09:08 but not blinking Mar 02 08:09:22 bobzer_: after unplug?? Mar 02 08:09:26 no Mar 02 08:09:30 before Mar 02 08:09:36 i just unplug Mar 02 08:09:38 and now Mar 02 08:09:48 wait until it blinks, then unplug, wait for complete off, then plug again Mar 02 08:09:54 the led is blinking Mar 02 08:10:21 i plugged Mar 02 08:10:29 bobzer_: You are charging off of your laptop? Mar 02 08:10:36 and the led now it's not blinking Mar 02 08:10:41 bobzer_: You are charging off of your laptop? Mar 02 08:10:42 after replug it should charge normally (blinking) and you should be able to boot after a short while (some 30 moin at max) Mar 02 08:10:52 my laptop it's plug on the wall yes Mar 02 08:11:07 see that is your problem right there son Mar 02 08:11:09 no the led it's not blinking Mar 02 08:11:21 connect the phone to a wall socker charger and you should be fine Mar 02 08:11:26 socket Mar 02 08:11:30 it will blink soon it needs more juice first Mar 02 08:11:46 bobzer_: so wait until it *is* blinking, the do the replugging, then wait another one hour Mar 02 08:12:03 ok i'll try Mar 02 08:12:07 I think he is SOL unless he goes for wall socket - really Mar 02 08:12:10 tybollt: we been there Mar 02 08:12:15 we have Mar 02 08:12:26 "Blinkin! What are you doing?" - "Guessing... I guess no-one's coming" Mar 02 08:12:33 tybollt: i don't have the wallcharger Mar 02 08:12:45 SOL mate Mar 02 08:12:54 it's not blinking anymore Mar 02 08:13:13 Stskeeps: whats your battery state now? :) Mar 02 08:16:06 bobzer is there a phone shop near you Mar 02 08:17:38 DocScrutinizer: Mar 02 08:17:38 PatternExample=42;1;30;Rgb;9d8040014e084f087f007f007f007f007f007f007f007f007f007f007f000000;9d8040007f007f0040ff42000000 Mar 02 08:17:47 .. isnt that nice for batt low? Mar 02 08:18:43 wtf? whatever it is, for sure 7f007f007f007f007f007f007f00 is kinda stupid Mar 02 08:18:50 its not Mar 02 08:18:54 look closer Mar 02 08:19:01 4001 Mar 02 08:19:29 you cant otherwise pause with keeping it lit at constat value Mar 02 08:19:55 you can, see my recent addition of branch command Mar 02 08:19:55 without the R component thats my normal 'on' pattern Mar 02 08:20:08 anotnac: no i don't have a shop close to me Mar 02 08:20:22 where? Mar 02 08:20:26 wiki Mar 02 08:21:41 bobzer you from london there must be 5800 user or shop with usb charger somewhere Mar 02 08:21:58 ah Mar 02 08:22:05 my boss asked me to take a look at joikuboost. Have any of you tried it or perhaps developed it? Mar 02 08:22:12 [2010-03-02 08:54:24] there are usb wallchargers for 5 bucks in every second gas station Mar 02 08:22:36 DocScrutinizer, are there really? I've never seen one. Mar 02 08:23:05 so s/gas station/supermarket/ Mar 02 08:23:08 anotnac: why london ? Mar 02 08:23:22 anotnac: i'm french and i'm in toronto Mar 02 08:23:32 LOL Mar 02 08:23:34 close :D Mar 02 08:23:47 same queen Mar 02 08:23:50 lol Mar 02 08:24:32 DocScrutinizer: well, using this branch command is a bit tricky :) Mar 02 08:24:44 not really Mar 02 08:25:02 lol Mar 02 08:25:15 how can you have a N900 but no wall charger? Mar 02 08:25:20 i didnt read the datasheet ... at what 'address' does my program start? Mar 02 08:25:20 The moose ate it? Mar 02 08:25:20 cehteh: you have some comments about the community kernel? Mar 02 08:25:33 ah yes you read log? Mar 02 08:25:36 cehteh: I'd hope at 0 Mar 02 08:25:49 DocScrutinizer: thats what i meant with complicated Mar 02 08:25:59 cehteh: I admit I haven't checked yet Mar 02 08:26:24 t-tan: btw i seen your comment on compcache too, i'd like to see that .. well in short (you dont need to read backlog) Mar 02 08:26:46 cehteh: you saw your comments while flicking through the irclog Mar 02 08:26:52 the yesterday update bricked my device .. donno why, i repartitioned it to ext4, worked well Mar 02 08:26:58 cehteh: reading the 5523.c source would tell you about absolute address in sram of the different engines, *if* it doesn't start at 0 Mar 02 08:27:01 tybollt: i have the wallcharger but not with me Mar 02 08:27:06 i'm in vacation Mar 02 08:27:26 i wanted to ask you about a) do you have any plan to recover / secondary safe boot Mar 02 08:27:37 cehteh: nevertheless rst means load 0->pc so I'm quite sure it's 0 start pragma for each engine's progspace Mar 02 08:27:48 and b) how to handle new nokia firmwares which will possibly overwrite the kernel Mar 02 08:28:01 cehteh: that would be the second time someone bricked his device with this kernel. bad. I need to figure out why it happens Mar 02 08:28:18 DocScrutinizer: well i think its just some experimentation .. it wont blow up when something is wrong Mar 02 08:28:25 cehteh: did you have a previous version of my kernel installed, or did you install the broken version maemo11, not maemo12? Mar 02 08:28:31 for sure it won't Mar 02 08:28:49 i installed it a day before .. dunno what version that was Mar 02 08:28:50 cd .. Mar 02 08:28:54 damn. sorry Mar 02 08:29:28 i just wanted to play with ext4 (which is quite faster than ext3 on the device) Mar 02 08:29:36 cehteh: it is was the temporary version maemo11, bricking was guaranteed. Mar 02 08:30:06 well, may i suggest that you release some kind of semistable version? Mar 02 08:30:08 cehteh: the kernel is independent from the nokia kernel. you only need to --reinstall the package if a Nokia kernel overwrites it Mar 02 08:30:13 would my N900 still work if I changed MyDocs to ext3 or 4? Mar 02 08:30:32 i dont have 2 devices one for use and one for development .. bricking it is quite some pita :P Mar 02 08:30:43 cehteh: maemo11 was a stupid mistake. the other version are stable and tested on my device first Mar 02 08:30:46 mece: only with some hacks, but yes Mar 02 08:31:16 t-tan: well if i wasnt aware of the risk of a foreign kernel i would be very pissed :) Mar 02 08:31:19 cehteh: the recovery instructions for bricked devices are in the first psot of the TMO thread Mar 02 08:31:33 didnt even read it :) Mar 02 08:31:38 hehehe Mar 02 08:31:46 did a complete reflash and restore Mar 02 08:32:03 dont even know that such a thread exists :P Mar 02 08:32:04 no sane person would even touch tmo Mar 02 08:32:18 cehteh: there you would read how to reflash only the kernel Mar 02 08:32:20 DocScrutinizer: heise forums are more worse Mar 02 08:32:35 I stoped to read those long ago :-P Mar 02 08:32:41 for the very reason Mar 02 08:32:43 t-tan: it was bricked in a way wich didnt boot anymore Mar 02 08:33:17 t-tan: do you have a link to that thread? Mar 02 08:33:25 cehteh: it recovers with the flasher-3.5 on your pc Mar 02 08:33:41 thought that's quite obvious Mar 02 08:33:42 well anyways, i am no with the nokia kernel and ext3 Mar 02 08:33:43 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=43420 Mar 02 08:34:14 my 2 other questions are more important .. not only that i fear that it might be brick again Mar 02 08:34:44 ./configure Mar 02 08:35:01 but when the next nokia firmware comes with a new kernel you (me) need some recovery plan .. or some hack preventing the installation of the kernel image from nokia Mar 02 08:35:15 duh, reminds me: t-tan could you also increase the kernel log buffer to a sane size so it can hold at least one fuull boot, please? Mar 02 08:35:18 damn. I'm sorry. I forget that virtualbox doesn't take focus just by moving the cursor.. Mar 02 08:35:32 cehteh: I'll add a big fat warning to the package description Mar 02 08:35:43 DocScrutinizer: already done (64K) Mar 02 08:35:51 t-tan: cool :-D Mar 02 08:36:15 cehteh: pretty much impossible and probably not a good idea Mar 02 08:36:19 well that doesnt really solve the issue, this is not to blame you but i am trying to be brainstorming about a proper solution Mar 02 08:36:49 for any definition of 'proper' :) Mar 02 08:36:51 the best solution would be to integrate some of my patches and changes Mar 02 08:36:58 into the Nokia kernel Mar 02 08:37:23 t-tan++ Mar 02 08:37:41 well ok i guess we need a big bat and some plane tickets for visiting finland for that Mar 02 08:38:23 t-tan: can you store your kernel aside in /home/ (/opt .. whatever) Mar 02 08:38:32 and have some rescue boot .. Mar 02 08:38:44 you could add a repo holding a rev that overrides any next version of nokia kernel Mar 02 08:38:53 well yes this are all bandaids arount nokias inept crap Mar 02 08:39:05 cehteh: the kernel is flashed to initfs on device, which is hidden. Mar 02 08:39:25 yes i know .. hence keep a copy of it somewhere for recovery Mar 02 08:39:43 DocScrutinizer: I deliberately renamed the kernel so that it doesnt conflict with Nokia kernel and reverting is easy Mar 02 08:39:55 and not on MyDocs or mmc1 whcih becomes inaccessible when its not FAT :P Mar 02 08:40:17 t-tan: reverting also easy by disabling the special repo Mar 02 08:40:25 i wish nokia would provide some way to boot alternative kernels offically Mar 02 08:40:28 it could keep the image in /boot and not delete it after flashing Mar 02 08:40:50 uhm space constraints? Mar 02 08:40:51 cehteh: IIRC someone tried kexec Mar 02 08:41:10 for N8x0 but to no avail Mar 02 08:41:23 well only works as long nokia enabled that on their kernel Mar 02 08:41:28 really? :-( Mar 02 08:41:46 m00f Mar 02 08:41:49 N900 might be different. you're welcome to try :) Mar 02 08:41:50 morn johnx Mar 02 08:41:58 cehteh - doesn't the flasher allow you to load alternative kernels? it does for the n8x0 Mar 02 08:42:18 kontori suggested me to talk with stephan about kernel issues .. i see him in may on lac .. Mar 02 08:42:21 I bet Stskeeps should know better Mar 02 08:42:28 so lets see beer or bat :) Mar 02 08:42:41 lac? Mar 02 08:42:47 linux audio conference Mar 02 08:42:55 Utrecht Mar 02 08:42:56 yay Mar 02 08:43:39 I mustn't join that event Mar 02 08:43:49 heh Mar 02 08:43:49 or something bad might happen :-P Mar 02 08:44:51 is there any particular reason why glib is built with --fno-exceptions ? Mar 02 08:44:52 well he is gst developer dunno how much he is involved with the kernel team Mar 02 08:45:10 emebedded .. haha Mar 02 08:45:57 I hope Nokia adopts my quilt patch system. it make it so much easier to selectively en/disable patches Mar 02 08:46:25 cehteh: nah, but I might run into someone responsible for PA Mar 02 08:46:46 hihi :) ... Mar 02 08:47:04 isnt that a one-man-show? :) Mar 02 08:47:09 or accidentally listen to a talk stating "*ALL* apps have to switch from ALSA to PA native now" Mar 02 08:47:13 and no there are the jack guys ... Mar 02 08:47:42 if you search for somone cursing over PA then you will find plenty there Mar 02 08:48:19 .o(i cant remember anyone ever saied somethnig positive about PA ...) Mar 02 08:48:46 so I got a better idea, I'll rush in to SuSE HQ 2500m away, and give them a decent beatup Mar 02 08:49:17 cehteh, the people who have PA working are busy listening to music rather than fighting about *nix audio output Mar 02 08:49:18 * tybollt puts some nails in a baseball bat and hands it to doc... there you go at them Mar 02 08:49:38 DocScrutinizer, sounds like a good idea either way Mar 02 08:49:39 DocScrutinizer: where do you live? Mar 02 08:49:41 when I want to build with options, is it in configure I should add the options (fex --enable-api-exceptions=no) Mar 02 08:50:01 cehteh: obviously 2500m away from SuSE HQ Mar 02 08:50:11 heh Mar 02 08:50:53 i dont know where they are Mar 02 08:51:10 Now Nuernberg Mar 02 08:51:18 ah ok Mar 02 08:51:49 there's been some KDE meeting a week ago, iirc Mar 02 08:52:37 would have been an even better moment to go after them - buy one, get 2 ;-P Mar 02 08:53:20 Morning, all Mar 02 08:55:17 t-tan: btw do you try to enable as much as possible in your kernels or whats the goal? Mar 02 08:55:44 nilfs2 is cool, but unsuitable for flash devices yet, it has a very high write load Mar 02 09:01:06 ah .. and your kernel (2 days ago) didnt liked stock ext4 you have to disable ^huge_files missing kernel support (which is of course ok for this device) Mar 02 09:01:18 cehteh: no, I enable only stuff that makes sense. nifls2 was an experiment. will be disabled in the next version Mar 02 09:01:48 yeah o reas through the thread seen it now Mar 02 09:02:03 cehteh: thanks. I should enable huge file support (didnt check that) Mar 02 09:02:26 i like nilfs a lot .. its potentially (becoming) the most rock stable fs for linux .. but not for flash devices yet Mar 02 09:02:42 is there a mirror to library.gnome.org? Mar 02 09:03:07 just put a note into the doc that one should add ^huge_files? .. iirc that flag is for really HUGE files Mar 02 09:03:08 cehteh, his irc nick is ensonic and he is in #gstreamer a lot Mar 02 09:03:12 which never happen on this device Mar 02 09:03:30 zaheerm: yes i know he was here some days ago Mar 02 09:03:52 cehteh: unless you connect to a huge RAID via USB/IP :) Mar 02 09:03:58 haha Mar 02 09:04:36 dunno how much it bloats the kernel Mar 02 09:04:39 for example, a mobile RAID (a truck) Mar 02 09:05:19 i have to go sleep now so i'll try out to fix my phone tomorrow Mar 02 09:05:23 it's probably more convenient than to modify the fs Mar 02 09:05:28 yeah .. makes sense for compatibility .. but you actually never need huge files accessd on the device .. and i doubt that a multiple TB file makes fun when you go over wlan :) Mar 02 09:05:30 thank's guy for tried to help me Mar 02 09:05:42 bye Mar 02 09:05:49 bobzer_, I hope you get it fixed. bye. Mar 02 09:05:53 mobile Raid? http://www.overstockdrugstore.com/product_images/y/046500016608.jpg Mar 02 09:06:01 thank's Mar 02 09:06:35 hmhm, might not be the best time to ask, but is there some us people which could recommend a non-contract data plan for n900? Mar 02 09:06:35 t-tan: is that stock ext4 or did you added some patches/fixes? Mar 02 09:06:36 johnx: that's too small :D Mar 02 09:06:58 Corsac, the $10 t-mo plan works ok Mar 02 09:07:08 cehteh: stock ext4, do you know any backports for .28? Mar 02 09:07:12 well, it works for me at least Mar 02 09:07:38 no .. i just cant remember when the 'no-journal' option became reliable Mar 02 09:08:34 johnx: how is it called? can I just enter into a store an pay by cash for a sim? Mar 02 09:08:42 someone should try to get 2.6.32 to n900-land Mar 02 09:09:06 Corsac, no idea. I started on a plan and am now month-to-month Mar 02 09:09:07 jebba already tried Mar 02 09:09:27 .32 is LTS or? Mar 02 09:09:32 though I think you can just start with month-to-month voice and add the data plan to it via your account page on their website Mar 02 09:09:42 iirc i read about that someone of the kernel devs wants to maintain it Mar 02 09:09:52 cehteh: yes Mar 02 09:10:51 johnx: and tmo has 3.5g for n900? Mar 02 09:10:58 yup Mar 02 09:11:04 well, where they have coverage Mar 02 09:11:22 their coverage map is not as impressive as verizon, for example Mar 02 09:11:36 but where they have good coverage, they don't tend to drop calls (IME) Mar 02 09:11:36 cehteh: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=36445 Mar 02 09:12:32 I flashed this successfully, but on reboot it appeared to load but then the screen went bad and it seemed to smell. :O I yanked the battery. Mar 02 09:12:36 eww Mar 02 09:13:13 AFAIK that was the stock kernel without Nokia patches. not a good idea Mar 02 09:14:15 yeah .. i'd thought abut starting with .28 and then incrementally rebasing that on vanilla hiving the nokia patches over Mar 02 09:14:56 that will be some tough job .. but when we find some group of developers it may very well worth the benefit Mar 02 09:14:57 cehteh: that is a pretty good argument for nokia to push their patches upstream Mar 02 09:15:22 yet alone get the nokia patches factored out and in a public git would be close to priceless Mar 02 09:15:27 yeah that too Mar 02 09:15:50 hi, i have made gstreamer plugin and i have problems with it on n900. I am using folowing pipeline, but i can see only the first frame of camera stream. Is there any common workaround for maemo gstreamer plugins which is different to desktop plugins? gst-launch-0.10 v4l2src device="/dev/video0" ! videoscale ! video/x-raw-yuv, width=160 ! ffmpegcolorspace ! video/x-raw-gray ! abr2 ! ffmpegcolorspace ! videoscale ! video/x-raw-rgb, width= Mar 02 09:15:50 640 ! ximagesink Mar 02 09:22:07 cehteh: soo, when you take a picture, the picture gets saved on the webserver directly? Mar 02 09:22:41 Shapeshifter: that was only a fun experiment Mar 02 09:23:08 quite clever actually Mar 02 09:23:23 i dont plan to have that enabled Mar 02 09:23:23 does the camera application wait until the write operation is complete or can it queue? Mar 02 09:23:39 I would neither ;) But it's an interesting hack Mar 02 09:23:58 fuse/kernel caches to some extent Mar 02 09:24:07 mhhh Mar 02 09:24:36 i guess you can do a lot pics without blocking Mar 02 09:26:29 joejoe: you should use the v4l2camsrc element on n900 Mar 02 09:28:29 also, i think you should be using xvimagesink... Mar 02 09:38:11 morning Mar 02 09:40:50 hey hrw Mar 02 09:40:55 what are you hacking on these days? Mar 02 09:41:27 johnx: bug-image-production with oe.dev, RI #1162 and few other bugs java related Mar 02 09:42:04 java...can't say I envy you (though I know it has its uses) Mar 02 09:42:57 er, what's RI #1162 (google fails me) Mar 02 09:43:29 johnx: Redmine ticket in BugLabs internal tracker Mar 02 09:44:35 cool. kinda forgot about buglabs in all the meego news Mar 02 09:44:57 I guess they're about to release their next piece of hardware, huh? Mar 02 09:49:27 hi i want to know how i can download maps into Ovi Maps for use to reduce 3g costs? Mar 02 09:49:45 also i want to know how i can update ovi maps Mar 02 09:50:00 1) use wifi 2) you can't. sorry Mar 02 09:50:25 trupheenix, well it's not that bad. here: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=38872 Mar 02 09:51:10 there's also a flashable emmc image that has map data in it already I believe (or am I confused?) Mar 02 09:51:26 mece, i don't have windows Mar 02 09:51:34 mece, neither do i have a mac Mar 02 09:52:01 you're comfortable on the command line, yes? Mar 02 09:52:33 johnx very comfortable Mar 02 09:53:03 if I recall (pretty fuzzy on this) one of the flashable emmc images on tablets-dev.nokia.com includes country specific maps Mar 02 09:53:12 could someone confirm that I'm remembering right? Mar 02 09:54:13 Stskeeps, Ping? Mar 02 09:54:39 i have no idea. I just saw that thread. I haven't bothered trying to download any maps. Mar 02 09:54:42 nevermind. this looks a bit easier: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=428531&postcount=20 Mar 02 09:55:04 ah yes. was looking for that one. Mar 02 09:55:06 seems that some people are having success with it at least, though I haven't tried it Mar 02 09:55:26 I did something like that on some other phone.. Mar 02 09:55:32 gotta admit that I just switched to using the google maps mobile website ... Mar 02 09:55:39 http://www.maemopeople.org/index.php/jaffa/2009/10/13/downloading_ovi_maps_without_a_network_c Mar 02 09:55:43 thats what i used, worked fine Mar 02 09:56:10 nice Mar 02 10:04:27 frals, what's the word on fMMS these days. I've been downloading updates but haven't really tested anything lately. Mar 02 10:04:56 its pretty and it works (mostly)... i think? Mar 02 10:04:57 ;P Mar 02 10:06:12 does it automagically connect these days? Mar 02 10:08:58 does this ring a bell: "Aah.. the expectation of a coming battle" Mar 02 10:09:42 by setting a gconfkey you can make it try that, but its experimental :p Mar 02 10:10:01 frals, ok, I'll pass for now. Mar 02 10:10:58 I fetched maps with nokia map loader. but I have winxp on other machine Mar 02 10:11:08 johnx: yes, bug 2.0 will be omap3 based Mar 02 10:11:09 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2 Static linking under SDK-PC does not work Mar 02 10:12:24 hrw, yeah, it looks really neat for some rapid prototyping projects. I'll definitely check back when they have the OMAP3 version out Mar 02 10:13:17 About deb package version naming conventions: Let's say I have an application xyz, version 0.1 I would name the package xyz_0.1-1_armel.deb Then I realize I did something wrong and fix it -> The new package becomes xyz_0.1-2_armel.deb - Is this correct? Mar 02 10:13:40 Or should there be "maemo" also in the package name? Mar 02 10:14:28 hi, i have create a widget for my n900 that displays images from xkcd the only problem is the size of some of the image is there a way to stop the desktop scrolling when inside the widgets area ? Mar 02 10:14:56 MiXu-: binary package would be just "xyz", you are confusing with filename now? Mar 02 10:15:23 Possibly yes :) Mar 02 10:15:45 But what I'm after is how the filename should be formed Mar 02 10:16:07 MiXu-: binary-package-name_versionnumber_architecture.deb Mar 02 10:16:34 MiXu-: so your problem is really what kind of version numbering scheme your are going to use Mar 02 10:17:37 Oh, ok so there isn't a specific unified scheme in Maemo? Mar 02 10:17:45 MiXu-: i don't know Mar 02 10:17:58 Alright. I think that's all I need to know :) Mar 02 10:18:12 MiXu-: but version numbers should be in increasing order Mar 02 10:18:19 MiXu-: just keep that in mind Mar 02 10:18:45 Of course :D Mar 02 10:20:24 MiXu-: it's not so easy. some people use for example "svn1232" as a version number to mean that it is svn revision 1232. just think what happens when they want to release a "1.0" version without specifying svn anywhere Mar 02 10:20:50 MiXu-: or what happens when the upstream switches to git :) Mar 02 10:21:29 one can use ~ in version numbers Mar 02 10:21:32 lindi-: Yeah, I'm planning on using 0.1, 0.1.1, 0.2, etc. Mar 02 10:21:37 though I'm not sure dpkg in maemo supports it :/ Mar 02 10:23:42 MiXu-: that's pretty clear yes. the most obscure version number i have seen is this 1:8.11+urwcyr1.0.7~pre44-4 Mar 02 10:24:06 http://stuff.moritzg.ch/gprsdataresetter Here's a simple script I wrote that resets the gprs data counter. It _should_ set the "last reset date" but for some reason it shows up as "Never" in the settings, if I use this script. Any clues why? If I compare 'gconftool-2 -R /system/osso/connectivity/network_type/GPRS' before and after using my script or the "reset" button in the settings, I don't see any difference. The gprs_reset_time I ... Mar 02 10:24:12 ... set is valid Mar 02 10:24:21 lindi-: Haha :D Mar 02 10:32:19 how do i fix the memory? right now it's read only Mar 02 10:32:34 trupheenix, N900 or N8x0? Mar 02 10:32:53 johnx N900 Mar 02 10:34:27 interesting. actually I don't know how to have it run a "repair" (or in unix terminology "fsck") from inside the GUI Mar 02 10:34:57 what filesystem is reaonly the MyDocs ? Mar 02 10:35:19 cehteh hmmm Mar 02 10:35:22 yea Mar 02 10:35:34 cehteh, i downloaded the maps Mar 02 10:35:46 now i want to write them onto the Cities/diskcache directory Mar 02 10:36:04 you have usb connected? Mar 02 10:36:32 cehteh, usb connected and i chose mass storage mode Mar 02 10:36:45 from a windows pc? Mar 02 10:39:04 cehteh, no. debian lenny Mar 02 10:39:14 cehteh, no windows Mar 02 10:39:23 cehteh, i don't own a copy of windows Mar 02 10:39:31 heh ok the better Mar 02 10:39:43 if windows i would be clueless too :P Mar 02 10:39:54 mhh does someone know a very quick guide for packaging a small python app? It's not really a module (well in python I guess they're all called modules) but it can't be really reused for anything. It's standalone. It's just two files, and I want to make a package. I made a package for a gtk/C app before which I found a nice howto for in the wiki but for python I'm a bit clueless Mar 02 10:40:14 well you can unmount it on the host computer and run fsck over the usb interface Mar 02 10:41:35 fsck /dev/sdb1 (or whatever it is .. maybe you need some extra option, see man fsck.msdos) Mar 02 10:41:56 cehteh, ok Mar 02 10:42:01 cehteh, after i run fsck what happens? Mar 02 10:42:10 if you have important data on it i suggest a backup Mar 02 10:43:07 depends .. on options, moon phase and whatever .. usually it reports if the filesystem is ok and with the proper option it may correct the filesystem when it was damaged Mar 02 10:43:15 ok Mar 02 10:43:19 after that you should be able to mount it readwrite Mar 02 10:43:30 cehteh, ok Mar 02 10:44:03 disclaimer: i recommend a backup, or at least dont blame me when you loose all your data ;P Mar 02 10:44:20 loose? Mar 02 10:44:54 cehteh, there is no data on that volume anyway :) Mar 02 10:44:58 crashanddie, fscking a filesystem can cause data that is tenuously attached to fall off Mar 02 10:45:02 cehteh, i just got it and wasn't able to use it since i got it Mar 02 10:45:13 johnx: i see Mar 02 10:45:31 trupheenix: new device? Mar 02 10:45:57 sounds fishy when the filesystem is damaged then ... Mar 02 10:47:16 cehteh, well ! it's from Nokia. they gave it to me. so i think they might have checked it and given it to me? Mar 02 10:47:50 heh dunno Mar 02 10:51:07 http://cgi.ebay.com/Nokia-N900-TV-mobile-phone-quadband_W0QQitemZ110498867792QQcmdZViewItemQQptZCell_Phones?hash=item19ba3eea50 Mar 02 10:51:21 woot .. fake Mar 02 10:53:40 cehteh, hmmm ok i put a pastebin of my fsck out put Mar 02 10:54:00 cehteh: nice fake Mar 02 10:54:09 cehteh, http://pastebin.com/DYRtmYAd Mar 02 10:54:32 cehteh, i ran fsck and asked it to correct Mar 02 10:54:39 cehteh, but i still get same error Mar 02 10:54:51 sdb1 ! Mar 02 10:55:17 or .. lemme check how the device is exported Mar 02 10:55:29 i did fdisk -l Mar 02 10:55:36 and it listed the N900 as sdb Mar 02 10:55:42 and my sd card as sdc Mar 02 10:55:46 eh no better not .. i reformated to ext3 .. might not like usb storage mode Mar 02 10:56:02 no sdb1 partition? Mar 02 10:56:17 well maybe ok .. i dont know Mar 02 10:57:16 well if it is a new phone you can flash the emmc image and it should be virgin after that Mar 02 10:58:24 tbh the funniest part of that ebay fake isnt that it's fake, its that theyve actually taken pictures of it with that ludicrously poorly applied screen protector Mar 02 10:58:54 http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware follow the flashing eMMC instructions Mar 02 10:59:23 but well that erases any customization Mar 02 10:59:51 cehteh, basically i get this read only memory thing and it says i need to back up the memory Mar 02 10:59:53 nid0: maybe thats a protection foil from packaging Mar 02 11:00:14 nid0, i agree. the N900 screen protector was of a much better material Mar 02 11:00:16 trupheenix: well i dont really know what happend and how it became readonly Mar 02 11:00:31 cehteh :) Mar 02 11:00:32 its more the way there are bubbles *all over* the screen under it Mar 02 11:01:13 cehteh, funny i stopped getting that error now. looks like fsck worked. :) Mar 02 11:01:21 cehteh, but i am still unable to write :( Mar 02 11:02:02 how do you mount it? Mar 02 11:02:18 and what does dmesg and mount say? Mar 02 11:03:38 cehteh, i just connect the usb cable. choose mass storage mode and then i mount it from nautilius. Mar 02 11:03:57 yes become root and type dmesg Mar 02 11:03:58 cehteh, basically now i'm getting permissions errors! Mar 02 11:04:26 huh .. fat has no permissions :P Mar 02 11:04:26 cehteh FAT: Filesystem panic (dev sdb) Mar 02 11:04:47 you unmounted before you ran fsck? Mar 02 11:04:48 cehteh fat_get_cluster: invalid cluster chain (i_pos 0) Mar 02 11:04:59 cehteh yea i did unmount Mar 02 11:05:09 if its a new device i would just flash the emmc Mar 02 11:05:16 cehteh, ok Mar 02 11:05:21 but you may try fsck -a also .. Mar 02 11:05:27 fikse problemet i A-test før jeg fikser bug, eller fikse scriptet først? Mar 02 11:05:43 but that may leave some things missing in case the filesystem was corrupted Mar 02 11:05:45 Hmmf. Fikse problemet i a-test fordrer egentlig et script, ikke faen om jeg gjør det der manuelt. Mar 02 11:06:16 Veggen: now in chinese please :) Mar 02 11:06:36 det er satt properties ca. 300 steder, som hver krever en del museklikke for å endre manuelt.... Mar 02 11:07:22 egentlig skulle det vært straffarbeid for han som laget bugen ;P (men han er på vinterferie, og så lenge kan vi ikke vente) Mar 02 11:07:29 cehteh ok Mar 02 11:07:33 cehteh, lets try fsck -a Mar 02 11:07:42 eek! wrong channel :) Mar 02 11:08:16 Sorry :) Just frustrating over a bug in a script, that has set a property on around 300 WebSphere application server instances automatically ;P Mar 02 11:08:26 trupheenix: the problem is that after a fsck -a you might not know what gets lost, the geniue emmc doesnt contain much, but still :) Mar 02 11:09:09 cehteh actually before nokia gave the phone to me they did reload the firmware. so i guess that's where some slip up happened. Mar 02 11:09:10 :) Mar 02 11:09:22 possibly Mar 02 11:09:22 cehteh, anyways i'll fix it can't be a real problem Mar 02 11:09:28 cehteh, it's VFAT Mar 02 11:09:36 yeah Mar 02 11:09:40 cehteh, can i make it ext3/2? i hate vfat Mar 02 11:09:48 i made mine ext3 Mar 02 11:10:07 but its not as easy .. you have fo fix certain bits Mar 02 11:10:27 cehteh, ok i have experience loading oses onto sd cards. i don't know how one could do it on N900. Mar 02 11:10:39 the bootup expects fat filesystems Mar 02 11:11:11 there are different instrcutions about reformatting .. i did my own way :P Mar 02 11:11:15 cehteh, ok Mar 02 11:11:22 RST38h, will you attend the FRUCT conf? Mar 02 11:11:23 cehteh, any benefit in using ext3? Mar 02 11:11:48 symlinks .. stability.. support for sparse files Mar 02 11:12:11 i tried ext4 too .. wich is much faster but that requires a custom kernel Mar 02 11:12:38 cehteh, ok Mar 02 11:14:00 GeneralAntilles: still no news from the seller :( Mar 02 11:14:35 cehteh, i would like to convert it to ext3. FAT is outdated. Mar 02 11:14:49 cehteh, does the N900 use a hard disk inside or is it flash based storage? Mar 02 11:14:55 hoi cehteh Mar 02 11:15:30 trupheenix: it use tapes Mar 02 11:16:00 rzr, funny very funny :P i used to have a tape based computer when was a kid. Mar 02 11:16:56 i did to Mar 02 11:17:28 hi gouverneur Mar 02 11:17:42 trupheenix: flash Mar 02 11:18:21 cehteh, hmmm so ext3 isn't exactly good for flash. it reduces the lifetime of it. Mar 02 11:18:49 trupheenix: the flash got its own business running regarding its usage Mar 02 11:19:07 gouverneur, hmmm own business? Mar 02 11:19:59 by the time you can realistically "reduce the lifetime" of a modern flash chip to 0 it and the n900 will long-since have belonged in a museum, tbh Mar 02 11:20:00 trupheenix: read somewhere that we have a quiet good write intelligence with the mmc controlers Mar 02 11:20:29 trupheenix: should make no problems Mar 02 11:20:39 just to be sure i tweaked some parameters Mar 02 11:21:00 cehteh, ah... :) smart. i do the same when use SD cards with ext3. Mar 02 11:21:07 nid0: well with a bug you could kill some of it but I think user will interact before 27GB are written 1E10 times Mar 02 11:21:07 but considering how slow the flash is, it would prolly take years of contingous writes to wear it out :P Mar 02 11:21:32 cehteh, ok Mar 02 11:21:33 laptop_mode = 600 and filesystem commit interval 600 too here Mar 02 11:22:00 gouverneur: wall dont overestimate mmc/sd controlers .. advanced ssds are quite good Mar 02 11:22:17 anyone get idea how to use opencv in scratchbox? :) Mar 02 11:22:25 but the emmc already degrades in speed very much after quite basic usage Mar 02 11:22:49 cehteh, ok. Mar 02 11:22:50 in other words its a controller without trim support Mar 02 11:22:56 not terribly suprising Mar 02 11:23:00 cehteh, that's bad considering its so expensive Mar 02 11:23:06 cehteh: recognized it... I'm down to 3MB/s Mar 02 11:25:57 nid0: trim is way overrated Mar 02 11:26:10 and only the most expensive and modern controlers support it anyways Mar 02 11:26:24 you'll never find it in sd and its not really necessary Mar 02 11:26:31 trim works much better than a lot of people give it credit for Mar 02 11:27:27 considering most people using a device like an n900 will typically just load it up with media then never carry out any big delete/overwrites though I can fully understand nokia not using a trim-capable controller Mar 02 11:27:51 I can't Mar 02 11:28:06 They can't just leave something like that out cause only 10% of people would find it useful. Mar 02 11:28:45 of course they can, if there doesnt happen to be a suitable ssd at the right price and size that actually has trim support, (and id imagine there arent many) then it's tough either way Mar 02 11:29:12 and by your logic the phone should do literally everything, and end up costing a billion pounds, because *someone* would find some expensive new feature useful Mar 02 11:29:47 i'm rather disappointed mine doesnt have a coffee machine built in, clearly it should have one, even if only 10% of people would use it? Mar 02 11:31:20 Eh eh, aren't you being a smartass now? I'm just saying since they gave us a lot of space on the device, meaning it's a good device to have podcasts and stuff downloaded to, there will be alot of writing, deleting and overwriting happening, and they overlooked that totally. Mar 02 11:31:43 But sure, for retards buying the phone to be hip and never installing anything there it's good that it costs 50 bucks less. Mar 02 11:32:50 cehteh, what am i looking to download? vanilla emmc content or the os images? Mar 02 11:33:02 Just met a guy on the weekend with N900 and asked if I could have a look, he didn't have _1_ app installed from anywhere and he said that he doesn't need those. I was left wondering why he even bought it, guessing to show off :p Mar 02 11:33:20 Terribad device to use as a phone / sms device only. Mar 02 11:33:24 well, for the vast majority of usage cases, which is what nokia have to aim the cost point at, the mmc will get written to in sizeable quanity once or twice ever, most likely. besides, this is a device for which the hardware was decided a good year ago if not longer, you could count the number of controllers with trim support back then on a leper's left hand Mar 02 11:33:40 red: phone/sms/email/web/im you mean rather Mar 02 11:33:44 trupheenix: emmc Mar 02 11:33:54 red: n900 with extra apps is still usable device Mar 02 11:33:57 without Mar 02 11:34:18 hrw: he had default desktops etc, it looked like it haven't gotten customized at all Mar 02 11:34:19 red: its a working phone and a camera Mar 02 11:34:33 red: and? Mar 02 11:34:33 it's a damned expensive one if thats all you want to use it for though Mar 02 11:35:00 guy could buy a cheaper phone to do exactly the same things shitloads faster minus the camera :) Mar 02 11:35:03 red: I knew few really good hackers with symbian phones which still have default wallpaper Mar 02 11:35:16 my mum's £60 samsung piece of crap has a working phone and camera too, and the camera aint far short of the one in my n900 in terms of quality Mar 02 11:35:22 red: did you told it him? Mar 02 11:35:36 no, not my way of behaving :P Mar 02 11:35:38 cehteh, what are the country specific os images for? Mar 02 11:35:47 50€ phones have better front cameras then n900 Mar 02 11:35:55 trupheenix, shafting people in the uk Mar 02 11:35:56 I did ask why thought, but he didn't have any cohesive answer Mar 02 11:35:59 red: so do not complain so much about it here ;D Mar 02 11:36:07 the only place i can! :D Mar 02 11:36:16 it's hard to explain the guy, you needed to have seen him Mar 02 11:36:19 nid0, huh? Mar 02 11:36:24 but it made me wonder how many others like him there might be Mar 02 11:36:38 I think it goes a lot the other way as well though Mar 02 11:36:41 you know, the corporate type who has no clue what their device is cabable of (and not knowhing how to use it) Mar 02 11:37:02 trupheenix: the device as different memory sections Mar 02 11:37:13 cehteh, ok Mar 02 11:37:23 cehteh, so i don't need to reload the os. just the emmc Mar 02 11:37:29 mate of mine's had an iphone then an iphone 3gs for the past several years, picked himself up an n900 in november and the first thing he did was reflash it to global, add in testing and devel, and start having fun trying out all the devel apps for it Mar 02 11:37:35 emmc is the 32GB user memory (and some other stuff) and then it has 256MB system NAND flash Mar 02 11:37:40 that are the other images for Mar 02 11:37:44 nid0: the specs were decided a long time ago yeah, and i hope it's the reason for the thing we talked about aswell. hoping later devices will have it :) Mar 02 11:37:50 if you bricked the device you flash those Mar 02 11:38:11 cehteh ok Mar 02 11:38:25 you could flash the approbiate os image to to get a virgin device .. but likely no need Mar 02 11:38:25 hell, the n900's kernel might not even support trim anyway even if the controller did, any clue what kernel version's actually in use? Mar 02 11:38:27 cehteh, i bricked lot of openmoko phones and managed to revive them. Mar 02 11:38:32 my phone's behind me, cba turning round Mar 02 11:38:34 no idea Mar 02 11:38:56 mine is in my suit pocket waiting to be shown off at a bar ;) Mar 02 11:39:35 cehteh i think i will load the latest global one Mar 02 11:40:09 ah, 2.6.28 Mar 02 11:40:15 so no trim support in the os anyway Mar 02 11:40:31 show me a SD card which supports trim ... Mar 02 11:44:34 cehteh, why do they want me to have a fully charged battery for flashing emmc? :( Mar 02 11:46:18 ? Mar 02 11:46:18 hmm Mar 02 11:46:26 when is PR1.2 due again? Mar 02 11:46:43 I don't think there's a date Mar 02 11:46:46 next time britney spears is on tour and it's a lunar eclipse Mar 02 11:46:54 _at the same time_ Mar 02 11:49:13 IT WAS A RETHORICAL QUESTION FER CRYING OUT LOUD Mar 02 11:49:15 ;) Mar 02 11:50:28 if you listen to the crap threads, it's when ovi maps with navigation is ready, skype video calling is ready, flash 10.1 for maemo is ready.... Mar 02 11:50:44 :) Mar 02 11:50:49 hehe Mar 02 11:51:13 oh and not to forget full portrait mode Mar 02 11:51:59 Hi, I'm testing my application which interacts with Maemo components via somne specific D-Bus interfaces, and in order to debug it within Scratchbox I would need to emulate some of these Maemo component's D-Bus interfaces, i.e. having "fake" implementations of these just for the purpose of allowing me to test my application... Does anybody knows if there is already some application that can create "fake", static D-Bus method imp Mar 02 11:52:08 you got cut off Mar 02 11:52:11 method imp Mar 02 11:52:21 is there any Pidgin users? Mar 02 11:53:12 cehteh, is it advisable to try out the PR versions of the OS? or should i just stick with the second release? Mar 02 11:53:31 some TMO-thread _do_ have a nice point however... Mar 02 11:53:57 as soon as geteth I my 1.2 I will come crying for 1.3... :-) Mar 02 11:54:38 trupheenix: PR1.1.1 is the actual and the one you should use Mar 02 11:54:44 AntiXpucT: I tried pidgin beirfly on device. I found xchat worked better for me. Mar 02 11:54:47 cehteh ok Mar 02 11:54:51 either the one for your region or the global one Mar 02 11:55:21 cehteh will get that also. i think they tried updating my device but left it halfway :) Mar 02 11:55:33 SpeedEvil, unfortunately, xchat don't working with jabber ;( Mar 02 11:56:07 and i've question about jabber support in pidgin ;) Mar 02 11:57:02 how does one destroy a gtk::pixmap? Mar 02 11:57:42 by remove gtk altogether Mar 02 11:57:46 * arachnist runs ;) Mar 02 11:58:27 arachnist, lol. I've had similar answers to all my questions regarding gtk so far :P Mar 02 11:59:21 mece: well, many people consider gtk as the inferior toolkit Mar 02 11:59:48 well I didn't write this, so I'm stuck. Mar 02 12:02:03 mece, unref it Mar 02 12:02:12 mece, what language you using? Mar 02 12:02:45 Jaffa: hmhm, about the ovi maps static downloads, do you know if the files are up to dates? Mar 02 12:02:52 (they are timestamped apr 2009) Mar 02 12:02:55 if c: gtk_object_unref (pixmap); Mar 02 12:02:58 c++ Mar 02 12:03:00 gdk_object_unref() Mar 02 12:03:05 right, thanks Mar 02 12:03:21 mece, are you usng gtkmm? Mar 02 12:03:35 zaheerm, yes.. unfortunately Mar 02 12:03:53 mece, ok hold a sec Mar 02 12:04:25 zaheerm, and, library.gnome.org is down, which doesn't help. Mar 02 12:05:15 yes i know Mar 02 12:05:27 i told them in #gnome-hackers that it is down Mar 02 12:05:34 good. Mar 02 12:06:05 zaheerm, anyway there's a pixmap.clear() that doesn't work in the maemo build, so I'm trying to work around that. Mar 02 12:06:19 Corsac: i.e. as up-to-date as if Ovi downloaded them or as up-to-date as reality? Mar 02 12:06:38 Jaffa: the first Mar 02 12:06:51 Jaffa: that is, are they the most recent available from nokia :) Mar 02 12:12:47 quick question, how do I set the phone application to auto-change orientation? It is not changing when I turn it. Mar 02 12:12:59 (of the N900) Mar 02 12:13:37 ptl: the top bar that says "Phone" Mar 02 12:13:40 tap it Mar 02 12:13:44 then tap "turning control" Mar 02 12:13:55 djeezus I hate it when ebayers don't say if they've sent the item or not Mar 02 12:14:25 I skip ebay - fair and simple Mar 02 12:15:25 http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_free_armel/mdbus2/2.0.0-3/ - anyone? Mar 02 12:15:57 Corsac: No idea, I'm afraid Mar 02 12:16:16 trupheenix: it is adviseable to havve a full battery because powermanagement wont work while flashing and you wont get any charge from usb, or you will drain it faster as it is charging... Mar 02 12:18:05 gouverneur, oh this happened to me once two days back. i thought i killed the phone. Mar 02 12:18:22 cehteh, how to make the emmc to ext3? Mar 02 12:18:34 I' Mar 02 12:18:53 trupheenix: it wont charge the batt after you killed it while flashing, if flashing wasnt finished just before it died Mar 02 12:18:57 I'd say... if you don't know how to make your emmc EXT3, you probably want to stay away from it :) Mar 02 12:19:40 trupheenix: u need to get another phone or external charger Mar 02 12:19:52 to recharge the batt and start again Mar 02 12:20:11 gouverneur, i face the same problem with OpenMoko :) so i used Nokia batteries Mar 02 12:20:12 tybollt: true Mar 02 12:20:24 gouverneur, but in this case i don't have a spare battery :D Mar 02 12:20:42 gouverneur, ah i do have a spare Xpress Music 5800 phone. could use that Mar 02 12:20:56 tybollt: thanks, that was it, I was lookign at system setting Mar 02 12:21:00 *system settings Mar 02 12:21:17 trupheenix: i bbl Mar 02 12:21:21 trupheenix: what is 'your' benefit from ext3? as you are not able to do it without guidance I expect that you dont need it Mar 02 12:22:10 gouverneur, hmmmm.... i'll figure it out anyway.... Mar 02 12:22:32 Hello everyone ! Mar 02 12:22:38 Hello Dr Nick! Mar 02 12:22:39 Hello. Mar 02 12:22:44 :) Mar 02 12:23:00 (granted, Dr Nick says "everybody") Mar 02 12:23:18 héhé :) Mar 02 12:23:43 * SpeedEvil sighs, and wishes scales diddn't lie. Mar 02 12:23:48 it s change ... depends of mood :) Mar 02 12:24:05 6 minutes before i flash my N900 Mar 02 12:24:09 ? Mar 02 12:24:09 i have one more q Mar 02 12:24:12 what's up with nokia claiming on page 14 of the n900 manual that username and password may be sent to nokia during email setup? Mar 02 12:24:20 PR1.2 available? Mar 02 12:24:42 my call register call times don't match with the system time. has anyone faced this? Mar 02 12:25:07 it's like the calls i made took place in a different time zone than my system time zone. Mar 02 12:25:10 madduck: Probably if you use some kind of push email through nokia? Mar 02 12:25:11 trupheenix, how not? Integer hours off? Mar 02 12:25:24 Jaffa: ok, thanks :) Mar 02 12:25:38 Does there is a way to understand on device why an icon for an apps isn't show on the launcher ... ? (no trace of logs in /var/log/) Mar 02 12:25:50 N900evil, hmmm no it's few time zones behind. i'm GMT +5:30 and the call register shows me call time as UTC. Mar 02 12:26:29 No more "more" application menu in PR1.2 Mar 02 12:26:30 huhu Mar 02 12:26:37 X-Fade: i wasn't aware nokia offered that or that the email client supports that Mar 02 12:26:51 Khertan: is 1.2 out? Mar 02 12:27:07 gouverneur: nope ... Mar 02 12:28:12 madduck its probably more related to nokia messaging Mar 02 12:28:15 https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5343 <- look the last comment Mar 02 12:28:16 Bug 5343: "More..." applications launcher does't allow scrolling Mar 02 12:28:29 nid0: it's *scary* Mar 02 12:28:30 as that requires your external email accounts' usernames and passwords be provided to nokia Mar 02 12:28:37 also, because there seems to be no detailed info about it Mar 02 12:28:53 well, whole point of nokia messaging is you give them your user/password and their system fetches the mail for you from your various different accts Mar 02 12:29:01 and displays it to you through your single nokia messaging acct Mar 02 12:29:25 nid0: then it should say all that instead of "may give out your credentials" Mar 02 12:29:27 and does push email, i think Mar 02 12:29:47 "give out your credentials"? Mar 02 12:29:58 push email is nothing other than IMAP, potentially combined with some SMS triggering. Mar 02 12:30:24 madduck: SMS triggering? Mar 02 12:30:55 SMS triggering may be expensive in some countries Mar 02 12:31:02 gouverneur: blackberry does that afaict, it triggers the IMAP client with a SMS Mar 02 12:31:28 nid0: see page 14. it doesn't tell me that my credentials won't be transmitted if I just set up normal IMAP Mar 02 12:31:41 Submit a big Mar 02 12:31:42 bug Mar 02 12:31:50 that is a very valid concern IMO Mar 02 12:32:01 no, rather than providing info on the hundreds of different types of network-assisted accounts, it just says the details may be sent Mar 02 12:32:24 Does there is a way to understand on device why an icon for an apps isn't show on the launcher ... ? (no trace of logs in /var/log/) Mar 02 12:32:28 And that is a bug. Mar 02 12:32:32 basically, you add an email account to nokia messaging via your phone, your account's login details are sent to nokia. Mar 02 12:32:36 zaheerm, ok I'm not trying to destroy it, but to remove everything from it.. Mar 02 12:32:36 Khertan: have you rebooted? Mar 02 12:32:42 I dont see the complication, nokia messaging cant work any other way Mar 02 12:32:50 SpeedEvil: yes of course :) Mar 02 12:32:56 nid0: it doesn't specify only nokia messaging Mar 02 12:32:59 IIRC Mar 02 12:33:21 SpeedEvil: but as it s the same type of icon than pygtkeditor ... i don't understand why it didn't work for vectormine Mar 02 12:33:32 Khertan: same size? Mar 02 12:33:34 the .desktop seems ok too Mar 02 12:33:35 mece, i don't think you can do that Mar 02 12:33:44 SpeedEvil: i ve try with different size Mar 02 12:33:48 well to me, network-assisted mail setup = nokia messaging Mar 02 12:33:49 SpeedEvil: but i ll recheck Mar 02 12:33:57 simply adding an imap account isnt a network-assisted setup Mar 02 12:34:02 mece, why justremove data from it? Mar 02 12:34:02 zaheerm, hmm.. perhaps create a new empty one to replace the old one? Mar 02 12:34:03 its just manually adding the account Mar 02 12:34:17 zaheerm, I guess to hide it or something. Mar 02 12:34:30 zaheerm, to be able to draw new stuff to it later Mar 02 12:34:33 Jaffa: I guess someone with a windows or mac stuff should be able to trace urls :) Mar 02 12:34:59 heh Mar 02 12:35:11 SpeedEvil: pygtkeditor's icon is 128x132 ... while vectormine is 128x128 Mar 02 12:35:16 danish media article about "Windows Mobile phones will not be upgradable to Windows Mobile 7" Mar 02 12:35:55 danish media article. King still sitting in sea. Mar 02 12:36:27 ? Mar 02 12:36:42 Speedy: Sorry mate, it's Direct Memory Access ;) Mar 02 12:37:03 * tybollt is making no sense at all today Mar 02 12:37:10 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cnut_the_Great#Ruler_of_the_waves Mar 02 12:37:59 mece, delete pixmap; pixmap = new Gtk::Pixmap(); Mar 02 12:38:14 madduck: thats blackberry... Mar 02 12:38:18 zaheerm, yeah, that's exactly what I'm working on. Mar 02 12:38:19 Stskeeps: can you link that article please Mar 02 12:38:21 mece, and then set the new pixmap Mar 02 12:38:23 let's see if it helps. Mar 02 12:39:03 http://ekstrabladet.dk/kup/elektronik/mobil/article1307670.ece Mar 02 12:39:21 takk Mar 02 12:39:54 mece, library.gnome.org is up again btw Mar 02 12:45:30 zaheerm, finally. It's been down since last night Mar 02 12:45:55 The QT migration problem on PR1.2 make me think that gtk is far better .... maybe someone can explain me in few word why it s necessary to break ABI here ? Mar 02 12:46:05 zaheerm, I added the magic of // to the code to solve the problem. I'll attack the problem if I ever get this thing running Mar 02 12:46:21 Khertan: To be compatible with Harmattan ;) Mar 02 12:46:23 because they introduced some crap in the maemo qt 4.5 port which they didn't want in qt 4.6 maybe Mar 02 12:46:41 Khertan: So there is a smooth upgrade path for developers to go from Fremantle to Harmattan. Mar 02 12:46:45 Khertan: community extensions that qt decided to scrap totally in 4.6 Mar 02 12:47:00 hum .... Mar 02 12:47:15 so some things was removed ? Mar 02 12:47:37 why it wasn't just deprecated, i don't know Mar 02 12:47:49 yep ... i found that strange ... Mar 02 12:48:12 but as i didn't know how qt works (or should be used) ... i didn't have a great Mar 02 12:48:28 view on "why this is necessary" Mar 02 12:51:38 WOOHOO! it's Glib::RefPtr that has (had) the clear function. it's deprecated, and one should use reset(). Mar 02 12:52:41 hum ... too many depandencies on gnome to port without too much modification the ubuntuone client Mar 02 12:53:04 Khertan, what kind? Mar 02 12:53:14 gnomekeyring Mar 02 12:53:18 nautilus Mar 02 12:53:18 Khertan, or are we talking about libraries missing? Mar 02 12:53:19 Khertan, you should talk with thomasvs who ported couchdb to maemo 5 Mar 02 12:53:28 we have couchdb? Mar 02 12:53:37 mece: yep Mar 02 12:53:41 mece, yep but not in extras Mar 02 12:54:00 mece, erlang compiler hangs building it in the qemu on the autobuilder Mar 02 12:54:11 zaheerm: it s just a small try to run ubuntuone client Mar 02 12:54:19 nice. Not that I'm using it right now, but I've been meaning to do try some stuff with it. Mar 02 12:54:29 about couchdb ... i 'm not sure what was the main purpose Mar 02 12:54:29 :) Mar 02 12:55:37 Khertan, it will keep all its data in sync with the couchdb setup in ubuntu one Mar 02 12:55:57 couchdb has built in master-master replication Mar 02 12:57:31 It does need a serious diet though. Mar 02 12:57:39 zaheerm: i'm currently reading the website Mar 02 12:57:48 this look like an oversized things Mar 02 12:58:32 ubuntu one doesn't work for me Mar 02 12:58:37 in any dimension Mar 02 12:58:55 works for file sync Mar 02 12:58:59 for me ... Mar 02 12:59:15 not even that :/ Mar 02 12:59:23 but i didn't use notes sync as i ve my own client / server / webnotes Mar 02 12:59:25 bookmarks are a fail Mar 02 12:59:31 tomboy notes as well Mar 02 12:59:36 (which isn't ready for end user yet ... Mar 02 12:59:37 ) Mar 02 12:59:40 i use mnotes :) Mar 02 12:59:41 oh sad Mar 02 12:59:47 available in extras-devel Mar 02 12:59:56 but sync can be dangerous sometimes Mar 02 13:00:04 if you don't know what you do Mar 02 13:00:08 why? Mar 02 13:00:19 specially when sync more than 2 device Mar 02 13:00:32 i ve made some errors in the code that i should fix Mar 02 13:01:05 i'm searching for a usable GTD app Mar 02 13:01:09 héhé Mar 02 13:01:13 good luck Mar 02 13:01:14 :) Mar 02 13:01:20 corecode: uninstall angrybirds Mar 02 13:01:31 apt-get remove vectormine Mar 02 13:01:42 what is angrybirds? Mar 02 13:02:45 corecode: It is a very silly game. Mar 02 13:03:05 oh Mar 02 13:03:08 i don't play games Mar 02 13:03:23 s/silly/entertaining Mar 02 13:03:52 no no ... silly Mar 02 13:07:35 anybody have an idea how to integrate group chat with conversations? Mar 02 13:07:44 i'd like to be able to MUC Mar 02 13:08:09 MUC? Mar 02 13:08:17 eh ok Mar 02 13:08:18 multi-user chat Mar 02 13:08:23 irc? :) Mar 02 13:08:27 no Mar 02 13:08:31 xmpp Mar 02 13:08:33 why not? Mar 02 13:08:39 well dunno Mar 02 13:08:55 if you have irc integration in conversations, even better Mar 02 13:09:00 Lo fellas Mar 02 13:09:10 the irc plugin there is close to useless Mar 02 13:09:16 oh also i wanted to hack modest to put sent mails on the imap server Mar 02 13:09:17 i use xchat Mar 02 13:09:29 it doesnt do that? Mar 02 13:09:34 however, i thought about maybe doing that on the smptd side Mar 02 13:09:35 no! Mar 02 13:09:38 pathetic, right? Mar 02 13:09:47 modest :) Mar 02 13:09:50 :D Mar 02 13:09:58 cehteh no, modest basically sucks in terms of imap, pop3, and generally anything to do with email Mar 02 13:10:00 when you are at it please fix: Mar 02 13:10:11 1) imap subscriptions Mar 02 13:10:15 but i'm not yet far in setting up a build/test environment Mar 02 13:10:16 2) imap idle Mar 02 13:10:22 dear god yes please give local imap subscriptions Mar 02 13:10:27 3) notifications only on selected folders Mar 02 13:10:33 what's local imap subscriptions? Mar 02 13:10:37 4) threading Mar 02 13:10:56 ability to unsubscribe to certain folders locally on the device so that it doesnt poll it Mar 02 13:10:57 okay, you do the UI, I do the code Mar 02 13:10:58 deal? Mar 02 13:11:03 mhm .. prolly more but that are the most urgend things :P Mar 02 13:11:11 nah opposite Mar 02 13:11:14 at the moment modest will only take the server side subscription list and poll every folder Mar 02 13:11:25 really? Mar 02 13:11:27 really Mar 02 13:11:30 it doesn't seem to do here Mar 02 13:11:39 it doesnt even get that right Mar 02 13:11:44 i only see inbox Mar 02 13:11:47 which is okay for me Mar 02 13:11:59 you're probably only subscribed to the inbox serverside then Mar 02 13:12:04 ah i see *all* my folders even the unsubscribed ones which have a dot in front Mar 02 13:12:12 and other clients you have accessing other folders are using local subscriptions Mar 02 13:12:33 and there is no ui to subscribe/unsubscribe ... neihter server nor client side Mar 02 13:12:39 but like cehteh I see all my folders, which is pissing annoying as one of the folders gets upward of 5,000 messages a day that I really have no need to see on my device Mar 02 13:12:59 no Mar 02 13:13:07 i have all folders subscribed Mar 02 13:13:08 and it polls (ok i disabled it) once every half hour and then notifies only about one mail .. which ususally happens to be in the junk folder Mar 02 13:13:30 haha Mar 02 13:13:43 my junk mails are set to read automatically :D Mar 02 13:13:49 so i miss any important mail and get notification about junk ... Mar 02 13:14:17 maybe i should do that too .. but then it would alert on boring mailinglist Mar 02 13:14:33 well, weird Mar 02 13:14:40 it only alerts inbox here Mar 02 13:14:40 i want configure it on which folder it should alert and then it should alert on every mail Mar 02 13:15:11 and of course imap-idle support to that it alerts when a mail arrives .. one 50 mails every hour at once Mar 02 13:15:13 basically, just write a whole new imap client that's actually not shit, plx Mar 02 13:15:17 * bilboed-pi wants to be able to disable tracker :( Mar 02 13:15:48 well have fun with the mail client Mar 02 13:15:50 nid0: well i disabled polling and look aktively for mail with modest when i feel for it (once every 2 weeks) Mar 02 13:16:00 otherwise i use claws on the device Mar 02 13:16:10 the imap part is not hard Mar 02 13:17:06 i wonder if some things will be fixed in PR1.2 Mar 02 13:17:38 some userland software (maybe including modest) will possibly survive the switch to meego Mar 02 13:17:46 so it makes sense when they fix it Mar 02 13:17:46 cehteh: Don't wonder, just look at the code. ;) Mar 02 13:18:13 X-Fade: i dont .. its not that important for me, and way to much broken to considering to fix it Mar 02 13:19:22 cehteh: The shortlog should answer it for you: http://git.maemo.org/git/modest/?p=modest;a=shortlog ;) Mar 02 13:19:53 :yawn: Mar 02 13:21:18 yes yawn Mar 02 13:21:25 X-Fade: is that the repository where the nokia guys commit too? Mar 02 13:21:32 cehteh: yes Mar 02 13:22:10 uhm Mar 02 13:23:19 has Maemo 5 disappeared yet? Mar 02 13:23:34 whats maemo 5? Mar 02 13:23:55 Maemo 5 was uninstalled from all devices yesterday through an over-the-air update. Mar 02 13:24:04 And replaces by windows 3.11wg Mar 02 13:24:09 \o/ Mar 02 13:24:17 that explains everything Mar 02 13:24:21 now I can play Jazz Jackrabbit 2! Mar 02 13:39:19 Pupnik: how's the hangover? :D Mar 02 13:40:02 * tybollt is modest Mar 02 13:41:35 happy Mar 02 13:42:26 does anybody have a solution for incoming sip calls from POTS? Mar 02 13:42:45 here they appear as sip:012345678@sipgate.de Mar 02 13:42:53 asterisk? Mar 02 13:42:58 and they are not connected to the address book entry of 012345678 Mar 02 13:43:12 no, direct sip Mar 02 13:43:19 Ce Mar 02 13:43:33 Cehteh: oh no, not again :) Mar 02 13:56:47 so, who's got a UK mobile provider they want to brag about Mar 02 13:58:23 Voda? Mar 02 13:58:37 have horrible coverage in hull, otherwise they'd be an option Mar 02 13:59:02 * w00t ponders O2 Mar 02 13:59:34 Woot Mar 02 13:59:37 * Arif_ is on the only Dutch provider that offers unlimited internet Mar 02 13:59:39 t-mobile Mar 02 14:00:21 N900evil: why are they good? Mar 02 14:00:23 w00t, payg - 20 quid for 6mo interocitor, and 1g/mo Mar 02 14:00:32 internet Mar 02 14:00:42 1GB Mar 02 14:00:45 that's not a lot :P Mar 02 14:00:49 well Mar 02 14:01:12 if you're not mobile much, but tethered. Mar 02 14:01:34 oops Mar 02 14:01:44 I just reset my data counter ;( Mar 02 14:01:52 O2 have unlimited internet (probably with strings attached) as a bolton for £20/mo, one month rolling contract Mar 02 14:01:57 and download podcasts forex off device Mar 02 14:02:57 w00t, yeah. this package is great value if you make few calls and texts, and 1g/mo works for you Mar 02 14:03:17 1g is probably a bit too small tbh. Mar 02 14:03:23 newbie question... can anyone help me resolve an error i'm getting while trying to "apt-get update" in scratchbox -> GPG error: http://repository.maemo.org fremantle Release: Couldn't access keyring: 'No such file or directory' Mar 02 14:03:24 30 quid for calls and net for 6mo Mar 02 14:03:53 6 months? Mar 02 14:04:02 tried google mmgcs ? Mar 02 14:04:04 yes Mar 02 14:05:47 * Arif_ hands N900evil some media to stream Mar 02 14:06:53 You may not use your SIM Card in any device to allow the continuous streaming of any audio / video content, enable P2P or file sharing or use them in such a way that adversely impacts the service to other O2 customers. If O2 reasonably suspect you are not acting in accordance with this policy O2 reserves the right to impose further charges or disconnect your tariff at any time, having attempted to contact you first. Mar 02 14:07:00 that is hilariously openly worded Mar 02 14:07:10 http://www.t-mobile.co.uk/services/payg/boosters/ Mar 02 14:07:42 w00t: what country? Mar 02 14:08:01 pupnik: UK Mar 02 14:08:23 Arif_, most times I'm out, I am driving, or doing stuff or in wifi range, so... Mar 02 14:09:11 it's a little depressing how much the mobile providers here suck for serious usage Mar 02 14:09:23 cao ni ma Mar 02 14:09:48 w00t, getting better thojugh. Mar 02 14:09:58 i finally found 3g prepaid for 10 eu / mo Mar 02 14:10:17 it s cheap ... Mar 02 14:10:53 prepaid here is 1 / Mo ... where in french Mo isn't month... but Mega Octets ... or in english Mega bytes Mar 02 14:10:54 :) Mar 02 14:11:31 ow that would hurt Mar 02 14:11:49 germany seems quite good Mar 02 14:13:13 I'm a bit perplexed how O2 manage to have a £3/mb charge for usage "outside your allowance" for an unlimited cap :) Mar 02 14:13:42 * w00t looks at tmobile Mar 02 14:14:07 are you sure it's unlimited? Mar 02 14:14:17 pekuja: that's what they say, yes Mar 02 14:14:25 wtfux Mar 02 14:14:33 how does the N900 order the bookmarks Mar 02 14:14:43 so there must be a piece of text somewhere saying "unlimited actually means 1gb/mo" Mar 02 14:14:54 Arif: I think recently used are at the top Mar 02 14:14:59 Arif_: rand(), as far as I can tell :) Mar 02 14:15:09 the bookmark I just visited is in the middle! Mar 02 14:15:10 :D Mar 02 14:15:18 Oh. Then not I guess =) Mar 02 14:15:47 Those weird Finns really should stop using those weird substances when programming Mar 02 14:15:49 :p Mar 02 14:16:47 Arif_: you mean these?;) http://www.salmiyuck.com/ Mar 02 14:17:10 what the hell is that Mar 02 14:17:19 salmiak tastes great Mar 02 14:17:36 Arif_: http://thedailywtf.com/Articles/Souvenir-Potpourri-Salmiak-Attack.aspx Mar 02 14:18:05 tingles in mouth Mar 02 14:18:09 * Arif_ blinks Mar 02 14:18:13 those cookies are black :O Mar 02 14:18:39 * Arif_ runs away Mar 02 14:20:02 GeneralAntilles: You're a very brave man Mar 02 14:20:26 he spread rumors about PR1.2? :P Mar 02 14:20:28 what'd GA do now? Mar 02 14:21:03 Stskeeps: See /msg Mar 02 14:21:09 The logs may be listening Mar 02 14:21:27 But he also took on crashanddie head on ;-) Mar 02 14:21:32 * Arif_ feels left out :P Mar 02 14:22:13 Arif_: He stripped off and ran through tmo saying "MeeGo rules; Maemo drools" Mar 02 14:22:19 what? Mar 02 14:22:21 huuuh Mar 02 14:22:22 I have to see it. Mar 02 14:22:29 lol Mar 02 14:22:32 http://www.salmiyuck.com/ <--- those cookies... do they exist? Mar 02 14:22:40 javispedro: I'm sure if you Google "naked general antilles" you may get *something* ;-) Mar 02 14:22:40 tybollt: yeah, they do Mar 02 14:22:41 HAVE... TO.... HAVE... Mar 02 14:22:51 Summeli: Only exist in Suomi? Mar 02 14:23:01 you really can't taste the chili on those :( Mar 02 14:23:06 tybollt, you want to kill someone? :P Mar 02 14:23:20 tybollt: I suppose that they wouldn't be a success elsewhere :D Mar 02 14:23:28 I just want liquorice cookies Mar 02 14:23:29 really Mar 02 14:23:45 salmiakki cookies though, not the sweet liquorice kind Mar 02 14:23:52 you probably have them in Dutchland too if you look hard enough Mar 02 14:23:58 Dutch like gross stuff apparently Mar 02 14:24:03 w00t, nothing is unlimited with o2 Mar 02 14:24:07 Summeli: the salmiakki market is HUGHE in Sweden Mar 02 14:24:20 zaheerm: of course Mar 02 14:24:28 w00t, they have a fair usage policy which if you exceed, they have the right to charge you for the excess use Mar 02 14:24:31 zaheerm: but this didn't even have a * next to it, horribly misleading :) Mar 02 14:24:33 tybollt: also in finland :) Mar 02 14:24:34 * Hydroxide would love to find some vegetarian salmiakki in NYC if anyone knows where to find it. (i.e. not containing gelatin) Mar 02 14:24:56 Summeli: I don't drink, so I'm not allowed to enter Finland :( Mar 02 14:24:56 tybollt: The Dutch like it too. Mar 02 14:24:58 zaheerm: I'm not even after unlimited, I'd just like a better deal than "1gb/mo and if you exceed that we will anally rape you" Mar 02 14:25:01 w00t, that is why i'm happy at least vodafone tell you 500MB rather than unlimited in ther marketing Mar 02 14:25:09 zaheerm: but that seems to be a bit too much to ask for over here Mar 02 14:25:20 those days #maemo is falling even more in the dark ages :) Mar 02 14:25:38 X-Fade: I think they like the sweet kind not the salty kind Mar 02 14:25:41 w00t, although that is a new step for vodafone, i'm pretty sure in december they advertised it as unlimited Mar 02 14:25:47 tybollt: No, both. Mar 02 14:25:51 really? Mar 02 14:25:58 zaheerm: probably, everyone else seems to Mar 02 14:26:21 i'm with O2 (UK) Mar 02 14:26:28 gone past 200MB limit many times Mar 02 14:26:31 * w00t notes virgin do the same thing, "unlimited excluding anything that uses lots of bandwidth, and oh if you go over 1gb/mo we'll charge you a lot." Mar 02 14:26:33 haven't got any warning yet :p Mar 02 14:26:39 Venomrush, i switched last week from o2 to vodafone Mar 02 14:26:42 in a few days we'll all be scarifying virgins to keep the meego gods from switching to gentoo specs instead of rpms. Mar 02 14:26:46 how frustrating Mar 02 14:26:52 zaheerm, how come? Mar 02 14:26:56 Venomrush, price Mar 02 14:27:01 We have the same great unlimited internet with most operators Mar 02 14:27:05 zaheerm, ? Mar 02 14:27:08 "Fair use of 10x the average use" Mar 02 14:27:20 which means you get an SMS to gtfo their internet after 200MB :P Mar 02 14:27:23 w00t, t-mobile are very light touch if you go much over quotta Mar 02 14:27:24 Venomrush, i now pay £12 a month for 900 mins, 500MB internet, "unlimited" texts Mar 02 14:27:42 Venomrush, with a 12 month commitment Mar 02 14:27:47 zaheerm, voda 3g any good? Mar 02 14:27:48 i am in finland Mar 02 14:27:58 zaheerm, ah looks like you're on simfree contract? Mar 02 14:27:59 Venomrush, yes at least where i am Mar 02 14:28:10 zaheerm, i meant, sim only Mar 02 14:28:18 Venomrush, yep sim only Mar 02 14:28:24 I pay ~6 EUR a month for unlimited no bullshit data on my plan Mar 02 14:28:27 24 euros for 3000 phones and textmessage and video call and 5M /s as much as i want Mar 02 14:28:32 zaheerm, i thought o2 is really good at retaining customers Mar 02 14:28:42 zaheerm, their retention team usually match the deal Mar 02 14:28:48 Venomrush, they used to be, i was with o2 for close to 11 years Mar 02 14:28:49 jiajia: ouch, expensive :( Mar 02 14:29:03 well 3G what do u expect Mar 02 14:29:04 jiajia: you're in part of the world that isn't trying to keep mobiles in the dark ages, I think Mar 02 14:29:18 yeah well finland Mar 02 14:29:24 u know where nokia from Mar 02 14:29:35 * Arif_ has the feeling Turkish 3G is better than most of Europe Mar 02 14:29:39 it is a great deal for me tho Mar 02 14:29:58 Arif_: if only turkey had democracy, too... :( Mar 02 14:30:01 Venomrush, i have found the 3.5g to be faster with voda than with o2 Mar 02 14:30:03 I'm thinking I'll go with 3 at the moment Mar 02 14:30:04 hei in finland now it is 3.5G already Mar 02 14:30:22 you get 4GB/month for 30TL(15€) at 7.2Mb Mar 02 14:30:23 :D Mar 02 14:30:34 there is no 4G Mar 02 14:30:39 tybollt, they don't? :O Mar 02 14:30:42 jiajia: LTE/WiMAX Mar 02 14:30:43 not in turkey no way Mar 02 14:30:43 jiajia: there is too! Mar 02 14:30:51 jiajia: 4G ~ LTE Mar 02 14:30:54 which we have in .se Mar 02 14:31:10 zaheerm, depends, o2 is only good in london Mar 02 14:31:15 that is just bluffing Mar 02 14:31:15 Venomrush: not true Mar 02 14:31:20 granted - the 4G network is here... no phone as of yet :) Mar 02 14:31:29 jiajia: bullshit Mar 02 14:31:30 Venomrush: O2 are good where I am at least (hull) Mar 02 14:31:31 that might be true Mar 02 14:31:40 Venomrush: in terms of coverage/speed Mar 02 14:31:47 okey tell me where is 4G Mar 02 14:31:48 jiajia: do not spread .fi lies now :) www.telia.se, check for 4G/LTE Mar 02 14:31:57 i got a tower practically to myself. totally lucked out Mar 02 14:32:00 jiajia: sure - STOCKHOLM Mar 02 14:32:25 okey u telling me even sweden has but finland does not , that won't be ture Mar 02 14:32:36 finland is a power of phone Mar 02 14:32:37 jiajia: of course! Mar 02 14:32:40 TMobile doesn't work very well in the metro :( Mar 02 14:32:40 no Mar 02 14:32:46 they should place more towers! Mar 02 14:32:52 what does sweden has , IKEA Mar 02 14:32:53 Finland is a power of losing in ice hockey :D Mar 02 14:32:56 we have nokia Mar 02 14:32:59 1-6 that is just embarasing :D Mar 02 14:33:09 jiajia: http://www.puhelinvertailu.com/uutiset.cfm/2009/12/17/dna_elisa_ja_teliasonera_saivat_lte_toimiluvansa Mar 02 14:33:11 yeah i don't care about that people lose sometimes Mar 02 14:33:20 norway kicks all your asses anyway Mar 02 14:33:23 only thing more embarrassing would be not to be in the match altogether :P Mar 02 14:33:26 * w00t dons flameproof underpants Mar 02 14:33:33 okey so finland has 4G now Mar 02 14:33:34 * Myrtti makes popcorn Mar 02 14:33:35 great Mar 02 14:33:48 * Arif_ consumes Myrtti's popcorn Mar 02 14:33:57 Myrtti: Kiitos! Mar 02 14:33:59 Myrtti: cool Mar 02 14:34:12 kaikki pitä puhu suomea Mar 02 14:34:38 * ptl just ate a whole chicken Mar 02 14:34:40 so manuy fins here Mar 02 14:34:43 great Mar 02 14:34:53 * Arif_ is drinking tea Mar 02 14:34:54 ruotsi > suomi! Mar 02 14:34:56 :D Mar 02 14:35:21 paskaa ruotsi kieli Mar 02 14:35:22 deb > rpm Mar 02 14:35:30 can we move on? Mar 02 14:35:37 NEVAH?! Mar 02 14:35:42 Myrtti: uh oh... you will get Stskeeps started ...' :-| Mar 02 14:35:43 tea > coffee Mar 02 14:35:53 ... Mar 02 14:35:54 Arif_: RAAAAGE! Mar 02 14:35:59 lawl Mar 02 14:36:00 :D Mar 02 14:36:00 dont do this Mar 02 14:36:08 iPhone > N900 Mar 02 14:36:09 ! Mar 02 14:36:14 lame Mar 02 14:36:15 * Arif_ runs Mar 02 14:36:18 seriously? Mar 02 14:36:25 no Mar 02 14:36:27 lol Mar 02 14:36:38 tea > coffee was serious though Mar 02 14:36:49 iPhone > N900 Mar 02 14:36:56 iPhone > N900 (it's bigger) Mar 02 14:36:57 what if everyone had +o in here Mar 02 14:37:05 ptl, err, no :p Mar 02 14:37:13 well, it's longer Mar 02 14:37:17 but the N900 is thicker Mar 02 14:37:28 much thicker Mar 02 14:37:40 the one multitask is enough to kick iphone ass Mar 02 14:37:42 the thickness of the iPhone is too small for me Mar 02 14:37:46 4 millimeters thicker. Mar 02 14:37:46 are we still tlkaing baout phones? Mar 02 14:37:48 seriously though LTE is about to break big time now Mar 02 14:37:49 *about Mar 02 14:37:53 jiajia: the only thing that matters is hardware Mar 02 14:37:57 it'll be everywhere sooner than you think Mar 02 14:38:00 _the networks_ Mar 02 14:38:08 Myrtti, do you still have popcorn? Mar 02 14:38:08 :D Mar 02 14:38:09 the phone will not be there just yet Mar 02 14:38:13 Arif_: no Mar 02 14:38:15 aw :( Mar 02 14:38:18 u don't understand how important that is Mar 02 14:38:27 round 2 looks interesting :P Mar 02 14:38:46 tell me Mar 02 14:38:51 I just did a xdpyinfo on the N900 Mar 02 14:38:55 and it said 16 levels Mar 02 14:39:01 that is 65,536 colors Mar 02 14:39:05 not 16 million Mar 02 14:39:28 iphone is a toy Mar 02 14:39:32 wasn't it supposed to be a 24-bit device? Mar 02 14:39:43 maybe its set to 16 bit Mar 02 14:39:46 ptl: nokia spain also keeps on saying it's a 1 GiB RAM device. Mar 02 14:39:55 jiajia: what is Mar 02 14:39:57 ? Mar 02 14:40:01 iphone Mar 02 14:40:05 wikipedia claims nokia usa claims it has 16 M colors Mar 02 14:40:19 they can keep whatever they want, nobody cares Mar 02 14:40:23 s/keep/claim Mar 02 14:40:33 maybe it is capable of 16 million but it isn't the default for X. Mar 02 14:40:51 wonder what would happen if I used xrandr to change the color depth Mar 02 14:40:59 I've already compiled xrandr for it Mar 02 14:41:00 the entire thing will crash Mar 02 14:41:12 kill the wm before Mar 02 14:41:24 it will shoot lasers Mar 02 14:41:28 can xrandr actually change the color depth on the fly? Mar 02 14:41:31 from the microphone Mar 02 14:42:16 it can't change the color depth indeed in this oldish lenny setup Mar 02 14:42:29 hmmm Mar 02 14:42:38 I think not, couldn't find such an option Mar 02 14:43:26 either way, I don't believe the LCD is 24bpp either Mar 02 14:43:54 it could be 18bpp Mar 02 14:44:30 for me it s 4bpp ... it s still doesn't display my vectormine icon :) Mar 02 14:44:44 ive a windows ce 5 installed hp ipaq and it is not possible to install maemo on it, is it? Mar 02 14:44:45 but a big blue square Mar 02 14:45:03 ptl: if you're going to do any tests I suggest trying to first ensure you can exit out of a xorg crash loop (use custom kernel with console, possibily disable watchdogs, etc.) Mar 02 14:45:25 Khertan: rebooted? Mar 02 14:45:26 or get a usb cable to flash near you :) Mar 02 14:45:33 javispedro: yep of course Mar 02 14:45:39 :( Mar 02 14:45:43 javispedro: seems something wrong in my .desktop file Mar 02 14:45:54 but don't know what without any logs Mar 02 14:46:09 yes, it's a bit of magic science Mar 02 14:46:15 but h-d is open! Mar 02 14:46:15 xdpyinfo also says the display has capacity for 24 and 32 bpp Mar 02 14:46:24 h-d ? Mar 02 14:46:27 cehteh, i updated my firmware and emmc image Mar 02 14:46:33 hildon-desktop ... ; Mar 02 14:46:34 :) Mar 02 14:46:41 ptl: you mean capacity for 32 bpp visuals I guess Mar 02 14:46:48 cehteh, now to check if everything is in order :D Mar 02 14:46:52 root window is 16 planes, but depths (7: 16, 1, 4, 8, 15, 24, 32) Mar 02 14:46:55 yep it s open ... but doesn't help me as i can't debug it on device :) Mar 02 14:47:35 javispedro: hmm, can you have a 24 bpp visual without real 24 bpp? Mar 02 14:48:39 Stskeeps, I'm not even sure. :P Mar 02 14:49:12 cehteh, but now the cities directory in the emmc is missing ! :( Mar 02 14:49:27 is php-cgi available for maemo5? Mar 02 14:50:02 u guys have any idea if there is anyphone better than n900 Mar 02 14:50:08 ptl: I'd say "yes" but won't put my fineger on it :) Mar 02 14:50:09 trupheenix: mhm .. maybe ovi maps initializes it when you start it for the first time, dunno Mar 02 14:50:19 hmmmm Mar 02 14:50:21 hmmmm Mar 02 14:50:24 i did that Mar 02 14:50:34 jiajia: because "better" is not subjective - right? Mar 02 14:50:50 anyphone [tm] :) Mar 02 14:50:57 overall Mar 02 14:51:29 i have now iphone and n900 thinking but a thired one Mar 02 14:51:33 which is good u guys thing Mar 02 14:51:35 think Mar 02 14:51:44 ptl: I think yes, Xorg will convert on the fly if the app insists on using them Mar 02 14:51:45 jiajia: because "overall" is not subjective - right? Mar 02 14:52:23 it can be Mar 02 14:54:35 gtkmm is driving me to do drugs! Mar 02 14:55:09 ahah ... Mar 02 14:55:13 use pygtk :) Mar 02 14:55:27 stop programming! Mar 02 14:55:31 are the drugs good? Mar 02 14:55:42 unfortunately this crap is written in c++ Mar 02 14:55:54 use qt? Mar 02 14:56:05 which is not written in c++ ;) Mar 02 14:56:09 pekuja, well, it's a work int progress. I haven't actually aquired any drugs yet, other than caffeine and alcohol. Mar 02 14:56:22 so just the legal stuff Mar 02 15:13:42 hello, Mar 02 15:14:40 hello. Mar 02 15:15:27 has anyone tried to port picodrive to the n900 yet? Mar 02 15:22:35 Toxs: go dor it! Mar 02 15:22:37 for Mar 02 15:23:19 sdl or gtk for drawing, alsa sound backend Mar 02 15:23:45 what's picodrive? Mar 02 15:26:00 genesis emulator Mar 02 15:26:23 writen for gamepark / arm Mar 02 15:27:00 pupnik : i wish i had the skills to do such a thing. Mar 02 15:27:45 just read on the forums that people have failed trying. Mar 02 15:28:02 well it shouldnt be that bad really Mar 02 15:28:43 given that people have ported it to many mobile devices already... Mar 02 15:29:52 the one i tried was compiled for the n95 , worked perfectly. Mar 02 15:31:36 * Arif_ yawns Mar 02 15:31:37 it is fun to port stuff but it is probably better to start with something that at least basically runs Mar 02 15:31:40 anyways i'll give it a shot today, since seems to be the best one to get working on the n900. Mar 02 15:32:09 did someone say Genesis emulator? Mar 02 15:33:32 iirc there is a linux makefile in there Mar 02 15:33:58 pupnik : most of the time i just look for an alternative when one thing fails to compile in scratchbox :P Mar 02 15:41:11 oh this nerdy world Mar 02 15:41:24 Today's topics in maemo-developers: AT command AT+CSMP=1,167,0,8 not possible on N900 (???) Mar 02 15:42:09 what would you expect? "Today's Lost episode sucked"? Mar 02 15:42:27 javispedro: "N900 is a plot hole in Lost" Mar 02 15:42:42 javispedro: well, yes :D Mar 02 15:43:22 Lost with a N900 and Ovi Maps, now that's some movie name :D Mar 02 15:44:05 javispedro: i think lbt played in that one Mar 02 15:44:36 yes, I read his blog post :) Mar 02 15:48:50 Lost rules Mar 02 15:48:52 xD Mar 02 15:49:18 you know they only meant to do 1 season Mar 02 15:49:31 they got lost in the plot? Mar 02 15:49:33 got popular Mar 02 15:49:38 drags on until now Mar 02 15:49:50 starting to make stuff up like time travel Mar 02 15:50:14 im sure time travel wasnt in the original plot Mar 02 15:50:15 till-: ping Mar 02 15:50:25 "Can the protagonist of an ongoing series whose sales are still solid deal with these challenges?" oh the suspense! Mar 02 15:55:44 1q/quit Mar 02 15:57:47 Is there any app to use Napster subscription on the N810? Mar 02 16:02:12 i compiled lopster but it needs a lot of changes Mar 02 16:05:24 trying to fix my infinite reboot n810, enabled r&d mode and disabled watchdog, didn't help, any ideas what to try next? Mar 02 16:06:46 lol @ http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/03/02/apple_patent_htc/ Mar 02 16:10:34 Uhm, when I type sb-conf se FREMANTLE_X86 it complains "sb-conf: You must close your other Scratchbox sessions first". What is this about? Mar 02 16:10:42 There's no other scratchbox session, really. Mar 02 16:11:08 sb-conf kill or something Mar 02 16:11:08 some background processes perhaps Mar 02 16:14:21 thanks, found and killed them with sb-conf list --session Mar 02 16:16:07 Shapeshifter: this happens to me after a switch, somehow the other session remains open Mar 02 16:17:21 anyone know if php-cgi has been built for maemo5 lighttpd says to install it to get php support but can't find it Mar 02 16:19:16 AndrewFBlack_: its part of the PHP5 package Mar 02 16:19:22 fastcgi Mar 02 16:20:45 gouverneur: what is name of package to install? Mar 02 16:21:46 hmw didnt look it up but the port should be there 1 sec Mar 02 16:21:52 I look it up Mar 02 16:23:45 AndrewFBlack_: ok php package itself has not been ported... whats packed with lighttp? Mar 02 16:24:19 arg ... ksyslog doesn't record any error for my desktop file and his missing icon Mar 02 16:24:21 pfff Mar 02 16:24:36 megabytes of glib warning ... but not my errors Mar 02 16:25:15 AndrewFBlack_: thought someone did the package already... http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=39430 Mar 02 16:26:01 havn't been one released guess I need to make some requests to people to do it Mar 02 16:26:05 its working, just have to build it from source Mar 02 16:28:22 I normally do better with a package to install lol Mar 02 16:30:04 AndrewFBlack_: thats not so hard... my server is just shutdown atm so no help from me sry Mar 02 16:31:38 ok Mar 02 16:41:04 hi all Mar 02 16:50:29 .desktop file format and validation really sucks !!ll!! Mar 02 16:50:57 vectormine icon was show because there was a space after the name of the icon !!! Mar 02 16:51:17 god !!!! there isn't any check ! Mar 02 16:51:30 lintian? Mar 02 16:51:41 that's why some editors show you line-ending whitespace by default :) Mar 02 16:51:51 desktop-file-validate did say anything about it ! Mar 02 16:52:24 lintian isn't available on device ! Mar 02 16:52:44 javispedro, good editors just strip it off and let you forget. Mar 02 16:52:54 yeah i ll clearly add a new option in pygtkeditor to hilight space at line end ! Mar 02 16:53:20 or maybe better to put a option to strip off Mar 02 16:53:23 will be better Mar 02 16:53:38 at save Mar 02 17:04:02 http://www.reallywarped.com/images/ATT560848.jpg <| OMG! ITSATRAP! (sfw) Mar 02 17:09:34 * MohammadAG feels stupid cause he can't boot mer properly Mar 02 17:10:37 MohammadAG, can you boot it improperly? Mar 02 17:11:09 slonopotamus, I can't boot it in any way :p Mar 02 17:11:29 N900 keeps shutting down Mar 02 17:11:34 w000p lo alls Mar 02 17:11:40 is the talk pages stuttering? Mar 02 17:11:44 not laoding up for me :( Mar 02 17:11:48 loading* Mar 02 17:12:00 not working here atm Mar 02 17:12:17 meh :) - life goes on :D Mar 02 17:12:56 and it's back Mar 02 17:24:53 Nokia Suite. I use that connection mode in order to use the phone as a modem for my lappy in Ubuntu. Using the real Nokia Suite, you can also access files on the device while you're using it as a modem, right? Can I do that with Ubuntu? Mar 02 17:26:53 w000psicles - new healthcheck build avail in extras-devel :D Mar 02 17:28:14 sorry Jo - not sure :| Mar 02 17:28:39 i use joiku as a hotspot and winscp to transfer files - so do it differently :P (and use xp) Mar 02 17:29:51 does joikuspot run on linux? Thought that was s60 only. Mar 02 17:30:07 theres a very early development with bugs that works Mar 02 17:30:18 can dload straight from the joiku website Mar 02 17:30:26 but warning - it does have bugs :P Mar 02 17:30:33 ok. But, in any case, I want to use a usb cable because that also charges the phone. Mar 02 17:30:37 power hungry, and 1st use often reboots Mar 02 17:30:41 :D Mar 02 17:39:10 I discussed about the roadmap today. We are trying to make it happen. Need to turn one more head around, and then it should be ok for me to make the roadmap for you guys (just a status update) Mar 02 17:40:59 * SpeedEvil watches the head-spinning scene in the exorcist. Mar 02 17:41:21 * corecode installs 3gb of offline maps Mar 02 17:41:51 :D Mar 02 17:42:47 wow that vfat flash is fast Mar 02 17:43:31 konttori: wow! Mar 02 17:44:50 * n00bmonk3y blinks Mar 02 17:45:37 what's the device name for the wireless nic in n900? Mar 02 17:46:16 can you break the accmeter of your n900 by shaking it too much? Mar 02 17:46:34 huh? Mar 02 17:46:40 i doubt Mar 02 17:47:13 the whole device will propably come apart first Mar 02 17:47:18 how much shaking would that be :) Mar 02 17:47:27 of course you _can_, but that would require an effort. Mar 02 17:47:42 because my accmeter isnt working anymore Mar 02 17:47:50 g-forces would force the screen to fall of, for instance. Mar 02 17:48:07 Pillum how much shaking r we talking about? Mar 02 17:48:38 its stalled on x=-2.3 y=2.3 z=2.3 Mar 02 17:48:52 jo-erlend: wlan0? Mar 02 17:48:53 i dont know how to describe it :) Mar 02 17:49:32 Flyser_, yes, I found it, thanks. :) Mar 02 17:50:59 when my n900 was 1 day old, and i went to the beach with it and started running with it in my left pocket, i was worried about how much it was shaking ... i mean as much as the legs r moving during running Mar 02 17:51:30 but it was nothing :) .. and thats the max my n900 has been shaken Mar 02 17:51:31 :) Mar 02 17:51:39 hm... Mar 02 17:52:06 maybe yours has some software issue Mar 02 17:53:09 is there an easy way to find out the source of the problem? Mar 02 17:53:24 cause i dont no what to do now :( Mar 02 17:53:24 * GeneralAntilles grinds teeth @ MeeGo-community. Mar 02 17:54:26 * Arif_ offers GeneralAntilles a Meego toaster Mar 02 17:54:48 why GeneralAntilles ? :) Mar 02 17:55:09 Pillum maybe send back for warranty ? Mar 02 17:55:45 abubakar, irritating starts to discussions: http://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-community/2010-March/000154.html Mar 02 17:58:22 the accel is rated to 5000g IIRC Mar 02 17:58:29 Midguard! Mar 02 17:59:44 The Tentacled One closing in on a blonde: http://www.encspb.ru/image.php?file=big%2f2803986828.jpg Mar 02 17:59:50 moo javis Mar 02 18:00:00 moo rst Mar 02 18:00:00 am i the only one not being happy about relying on one vendor for our CMS needs and development on top? Mar 02 18:00:36 * RST38h is not happy about Midgard specifically Mar 02 18:00:37 Stskeeps, how do you mean? Mar 02 18:00:51 * javispedro once went thought the "choose a cms" life step. he did not like any single one cms in existence. Mar 02 18:01:02 GeneralAntilles: as in the apps on top of maemo.org is primarily written by midgard authors and x-fade Mar 02 18:01:11 it does not lend itself to community participation that easily Mar 02 18:01:22 umm i dont know whats cms and whats midguard and whats drupal so dont know whats being discussed Mar 02 18:01:30 midguard again! Mar 02 18:01:36 lazy to google right now Mar 02 18:01:37 en garde! touché! Mar 02 18:02:14 hmhm, yet another us question, will an eu n900 have 3.5g on at&t in us? Mar 02 18:02:17 abubakar: It is ok, just stay quiet for now Mar 02 18:02:19 midguard = midgard, a cms. cms = content management system. Mar 02 18:02:23 Corsac: No Mar 02 18:02:31 Corsac, not even US n900 will have 3.5g on at&t afaik? Mar 02 18:02:40 GeneralAntilles: without any technical reasons, i would think drupal would lend itself better to outsiders coming in and contributing features to the community sides Mar 02 18:02:43 site Mar 02 18:02:45 s Mar 02 18:02:45 content management system = website author retirement service. Mar 02 18:03:21 due to it simply being more known and that any idiot can set it up? :P Mar 02 18:03:51 but you HIT the issue! how can meego.com be a special site if anyone can set a similar site up easily? Mar 02 18:03:53 n00bmonk3y, where did you get joikuspot for maemo? I can't find it in the repos and no download link on their site? Mar 02 18:04:01 we clearly need something über complicated. Mar 02 18:04:11 Stskeeps: I would say the CMS with the biggest number of users worldwide wins Mar 02 18:04:17 Stskeeps: Safety in numbers Mar 02 18:04:23 RST38h: wordpress. Mar 02 18:04:24 RST38h: sharepoint? ;p Mar 02 18:04:28 ah, touché. Mar 02 18:04:46 RST38h: thanks Mar 02 18:04:54 Stskeeps: Oh. No. Mar 02 18:04:58 Corsac, there is no difference between N900s. Mar 02 18:05:03 ok Mar 02 18:05:03 Corsac, they're all the same, minus the keyboard. Mar 02 18:05:05 wasn't sure Mar 02 18:05:08 WordPress may not be such a bad idea =) Mar 02 18:05:18 so it's not a good idea to take an at&t prepaid plan if I want data Mar 02 18:05:18 i would much like to see more participation from outsiders into the website, as to off-load x-fade and others to focus on higher level things Mar 02 18:05:22 * microlith putts around on AT&T's 2.5G service Mar 02 18:05:33 Corsac, does AT&T do data with prepaid? Mar 02 18:05:38 no idea at all Mar 02 18:05:48 I don't think any US providers do pre-paid data. Mar 02 18:05:50 it's just that I'm visiting someone and she has at&t Mar 02 18:06:03 I don't notice any difference in web browsing speed between edge and 3.5g.. atleast not when browsing tmo.. the massive amounts of css and jabascript take more time Mar 02 18:06:10 GeneralAntilles: it seems that tmo with flexpay it's possible Mar 02 18:06:25 * GeneralAntilles does. Mar 02 18:07:58 Stskeeps: Isn't maemo.org site (and probably meego.com too) plugging into Nokia's own intranet and thus cannot be maintained/administered by volunteers? Mar 02 18:08:16 ShadowJK: Blame css/javascript Mar 02 18:08:19 RST38h: i don't think so actually Mar 02 18:08:43 * RST38h still does not understand why it is impossible to create an iPhonish UI for tmo with minimum css and js Mar 02 18:08:57 nntp Mar 02 18:09:07 If Google manages to implement such a UI, why not anyone from tmo? Mar 02 18:09:21 RST38h, LF hosted. Mar 02 18:09:26 So, whatever that means. Mar 02 18:09:33 RST38h: well, vote for drupal, which is skinnable and has much more .. eh... simple gui by default. Mar 02 18:09:44 javis: where? Mar 02 18:09:52 * GeneralAntilles feels enthusiasm slowly seeping away through his pores. Mar 02 18:10:47 RST38h: if there's ever a poll to decide meego's cms, there :P Mar 02 18:10:57 s/meego/meego.com Mar 02 18:11:08 I think we should hold a poll on Talk. Mar 02 18:11:11 RST38h, oh the minimalist UIs are based on iphone skins Mar 02 18:15:22 ShadowJK: Google mobile UIs work very well on N900 Mar 02 18:15:32 Unfortunately, I do not feel any kind of special attachment to Midgard (which I even flamed before), but only to x-fade's work (like the packages interface). Mar 02 18:15:35 General: Pools on tmo are useless Mar 02 18:15:52 General: Polls. It still comes down to whoever holds the actual admin rights' Mar 02 18:16:08 I am under the impression that those kind of stuff is easier on Midgard than on Drupal, but since I've only played slightly with both... Mar 02 18:19:23 javispedro: Packages interface is unusable IMHO Mar 02 18:19:31 not sure why you feel attachment to it Mar 02 18:19:36 because it's useful. Mar 02 18:19:44 and it's better than the previous abomination. Mar 02 18:20:01 which required a 2 GiB machine just to promote a package from -devel to extras Mar 02 18:20:04 if only that... Mar 02 18:20:42 wth... i'm trying to disable voicemail by entering a ##-code. The phone says that it's an invalid number... how do i enter these kinds of operator codes? Mar 02 18:20:58 package interface is vital to knowing history of actions. its good at what it does even if the interface needs cleasning Mar 02 18:21:41 Wolfie, install the ussd-widget from extras Mar 02 18:21:49 the device doesnt natively support ussd codes Mar 02 18:22:09 bah Mar 02 18:22:21 ah, it seems like my operator supports SMS disabling too... Mar 02 18:23:20 sms dkisable - why? Mar 02 18:23:23 oh Mar 02 18:24:33 N900evil: disabling via sms, i mean :) Mar 02 18:25:27 hmm Mar 02 18:25:45 is there a command to install all apps from the games category? Mar 02 18:26:12 shit Mar 02 18:26:23 i was updating a program when my n900 crashed Mar 02 18:26:33 now i can't update it anymore, advice? Mar 02 18:26:50 uninstall and install latest. Mar 02 18:27:00 hmk Mar 02 18:27:02 yay! my accmeter is working again :) Mar 02 18:27:11 w0000p Mar 02 18:27:21 installing games one by one is tiring Mar 02 18:27:22 :o Mar 02 18:27:44 there should be a checkbox like thingy on the right Mar 02 18:27:46 or a CTRL A option Mar 02 18:27:52 Arif_: i agree Mar 02 18:27:57 download them with your pc and install them all with apt-get Mar 02 18:28:15 won't that take just as long? Mar 02 18:28:41 oh, you're right ;) Mar 02 18:29:08 any idea how to play sounds with qt ? I tried phonon but it looses sounds. Mar 02 18:29:30 (of course, the context is: under maemo) Mar 02 18:30:14 thanks javispedro, it worked Mar 02 18:30:21 but you wouldnt have to wait the time until you can install/select the next programm Mar 02 18:30:54 I'll just wait till Meego 5 till they finally implement it Mar 02 18:30:55 :D Mar 02 18:31:15 weird, no matches are found for "ussd" Mar 02 18:31:33 v13 : use the gstreamer api Mar 02 18:32:13 v13, use gtreamer api directly Mar 02 18:32:31 the phonon-gst backend is awful Mar 02 18:32:35 thanks... I'm looking for some examples right now. bb soon. Mar 02 18:32:59 zaheerm: it works well but it is very asynchronous. Mar 02 18:33:37 you said it loses sounds Mar 02 18:33:44 yes Mar 02 18:33:52 so that's not good :) Mar 02 18:33:56 or you could use pulseaudio Mar 02 18:33:58 if there is a sound in the queue and you send another one, then the first is lost Mar 02 18:34:09 if you lose sound its not very good :P Mar 02 18:34:26 it's the way it works Mar 02 18:35:30 RST38h, what, you didn't sense the dripping sarcasm there? :P Mar 02 18:38:02 gstreamer requires gtk ? Mar 02 18:38:38 v13, no Mar 02 18:38:47 gstreamer depends on glib Mar 02 18:38:56 just like qt depends on glib Mar 02 18:38:57 that's what i meant Mar 02 18:39:03 it requires glib's loop ? Mar 02 18:39:10 no Mar 02 18:39:10 (or how it is called) Mar 02 18:39:24 it has stuff that will help you if you have the glib mainloop Mar 02 18:39:43 but if you're writing a qt app, qt's mainloop can be told to handle the glib mainloop Mar 02 18:40:23 and actually is the default in the fremantle qt Mar 02 18:40:28 since they use gtkstyle Mar 02 18:41:12 it's been in qt since qt4.2 Mar 02 18:42:03 so that should not stop you from using gstreamer Mar 02 18:42:17 hola estoy usando un traductor, tengo un problema con el N900: no tengo espacio en root y no me deja desinstalar nada, no me funciona ni dpkg --configure -a Mar 02 18:42:36 Hi I am using a translator, I have a problem with the N900, I have no root space and will not let me uninstall anything, I do not work or dpkg - configure-a Mar 02 18:44:36 i'm doing this: player=gst.element_factory_make("playbin2", "player") ; player.set_property("uri", "file://" + relative_file_path) ; player.set_state(gst.STATE_PLAYING). Mar 02 18:44:38 should it work ? Mar 02 18:45:21 v13, assuming your qt has glib mainloop integration on then you don't need to theoretically do anything more Mar 02 18:45:54 it should be absolute file path not relative file path Mar 02 18:46:00 ok.. it worked once by changing the relative path ... Mar 02 18:46:28 ok.. it worked once by changing the relative path ... Mar 02 18:46:36 (oops)... still.. same thing. Mar 02 18:46:38 it looses sounds Mar 02 18:46:58 has the angry birds level pack been withdrawn again? Mar 02 18:47:08 v13, what do you mean loses sounds? Mar 02 18:47:31 it should play a wav when (let's say) i tap my finger Mar 02 18:47:37 if i tap it slowly it's ok Mar 02 18:47:41 someone pinged me ? Mar 02 18:48:15 if i do it quickly, then it doesn't play for all of them. Adding a "print" before the play function shows that it is called more times than the sound is heard Mar 02 18:48:39 it sounds like what is happening is the sound clip ahsn't finished playing when you start the next one Mar 02 18:48:49 well.. it hasn't even started Mar 02 18:49:03 yes... that's it Mar 02 18:49:19 so what is your intended behaviour in this case? Mar 02 18:49:25 it is because of me. I have to do a set_state(gst.STATE_NULL) which stops the playing. Mar 02 18:49:43 still.. this function seems slow too. Mar 02 18:50:03 any way to preload the sound so it doesn't load from disk all the time ? Mar 02 18:50:39 you can do it with the pulseaudio api Mar 02 18:50:59 i can't believe that *all* gstreamer-based sounds are loaded on demand Mar 02 18:51:53 v13, gstreamer is not a sound server Mar 02 18:52:14 you mean that gstreamer sends the filename to pulse ? Mar 02 18:52:15 v13, it is a media framework based on pipelines Mar 02 18:52:22 v13: the only api that can do this on fremantle is... pulse itself. Mar 02 18:52:29 aaaaaaaaarg Mar 02 18:52:35 v13: and you'd need to implement wav sound loading. Mar 02 18:52:35 v13, you can do the caching yourself by loading from disk into memory Mar 02 18:52:52 v13, but you're better off using pulseaudio directly then Mar 02 18:53:22 i don't see python bindings for pulse... Mar 02 18:53:29 unfortunately canberra will refuse to cache any sounds not in the system sound paths :( Mar 02 18:54:33 javispedro, that kinda sucks Mar 02 18:55:07 I guess canberra's author had in mind that canberra's target was system sound effects :( Mar 02 18:55:08 what is "playbin2" ? Mar 02 18:55:12 javispedro, libcanberra is more for system sound theming, rather than user specified samples Mar 02 18:55:34 ah. found. it .. base plugin. Mar 02 18:55:40 v13, it is a helper gstreamer element that plays media from a uri Mar 02 18:55:51 ok... then i don't need that :) Mar 02 18:55:53 does Mer boot up with the watchdog enabled? or should I change into R&D mode Mar 02 18:55:56 v13, generating the whole pipeline properly and managing it Mar 02 18:56:09 zaheerm: yes... still, seems like a very easy to use API for sound effects Mar 02 18:56:37 the alternatives are either gstreamer, or implement your own loader. Mar 02 18:57:10 and gstreamer feels very heavy for that. Mar 02 18:57:13 * n00bmonk3y is going afk - w000p dinnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnner Mar 02 18:57:49 (by "own loader" I mean libwavfile + pulse, sdl, etc.) Mar 02 18:57:51 is there an alternative to playbin2 that loads from memory? or a url handler that indicates memory ? Mar 02 18:58:31 v13, http://0pointer.de/lennart/projects/pulseaudio/doxygen/ Mar 02 18:59:31 zaheem: if i see corectly, there are no python bindings for pulse for maemo. Mar 02 18:59:56 v13, you can do a pipeline: appsrc ! decodebin2 ! pulsesink Mar 02 19:00:30 v13, and handle the appsrc callbacks in python and push the whole buffer there Mar 02 19:01:28 * v13 phone Mar 02 19:02:32 v13, you can use ctypes... Mar 02 19:02:45 http://docs.python.org/library/ctypes.html Mar 02 19:03:03 ugly but will work for the one function you want to use in pulseaudio Mar 02 19:03:18 zaheerm: i won't do that :) Mar 02 19:03:37 * v13 refuses, like a horse before jumping Mar 02 19:03:47 that's probably your easiest option right now Mar 02 19:04:04 other one is to create or port python bindings to pulseaudio Mar 02 19:04:04 I'll consider multiple streams Mar 02 19:04:09 i'll try mean Mar 02 19:04:13 i'll try i mean Mar 02 19:04:27 or just use alsa, which is what pa's author recommends for streaming audio. Mar 02 19:04:35 (on fremantle alsa -> pa) Mar 02 19:04:36 alsa doesn't cache sounds Mar 02 19:04:57 only thing on maemo that does is pulseaudio Mar 02 19:05:09 i wonder if pygame is any good Mar 02 19:05:18 but if you're using the PA API, you have to load the sounds yourself. Mar 02 19:05:28 so you could cache them already. Mar 02 19:05:36 unless you really want "last mile" caching (aka server side) Mar 02 19:05:59 which is not very last mile if you ask me (only one shared memory "copy" less) Mar 02 19:06:07 ah no, maemo's pa doesn't use shm Mar 02 19:06:13 * javispedro shuts Mar 02 19:10:30 Useless javispedro. Mar 02 19:13:31 v13, pygame would be an option for you, yes Mar 02 19:16:12 first nokia, now HTC, Apple Sues HTC over infringment of 20 patents Mar 02 19:25:17 fyi: pygame is better. Mar 02 19:25:25 it is faster. not 100% ok but a lot faster Mar 02 19:29:27 which is better, mymenu or catorise? Is there any comparisation between these applications? Mar 02 19:30:31 can someone point me to how I could tell if my N900 is roaming (via code) Mar 02 19:30:32 ? Mar 02 19:31:03 * GeneralAntilles prefers Catorise. Mar 02 19:31:13 Vanadis__, they kind of offer different solutions. Mar 02 19:31:20 MyMenu aims to be completely customizable Mar 02 19:31:28 also, how do I tell if I am on wifi or cell (via code)? Mar 02 19:31:34 Catorise offers a basic template that will eventually be customizable. Mar 02 19:32:22 GeneralAntilles, afaik catorise is sorting the apps automatically and mymenu is completely manual, right? Mar 02 19:32:39 As far as I'm aware Mar 02 19:32:46 though I've never actually used MyMenu. Mar 02 19:33:29 k Mar 02 19:34:34 well, i just want to set the icons as i want them Mar 02 19:34:52 and not this shitty more Mar 02 19:35:16 after installing > 9000 Applications it's quite difficult to start them Mar 02 19:35:30 and terminal isn't a solution Mar 02 19:40:59 where can i find some basic and vari info about x-terminal (commands) Mar 02 19:46:35 a Unix/Linux book? Mar 02 19:47:03 Google? Mar 02 19:47:13 that'd teach you the principles of using a shell (quoting, variables, pipes, ...) Mar 02 19:47:28 the actual set of commands varies a bit (although there's a common core of cd/ls/find/etc.) Mar 02 19:48:08 speaking about xterm on N900 any way to set bash as the defaul t? Mar 02 19:50:22 except from changing /etc/passwd ? Mar 02 19:51:06 I'm sure you all "where's meego on my n900" lovers are going to get happy with the "tear-free scrolling only in harmattan" bug closures >:) Mar 02 19:51:26 where Mar 02 19:55:29 javispedro, who cares anymore? Mar 02 19:55:39 :) Mar 02 19:56:00 well, half of tmo Mar 02 19:56:35 but not even pandora managed to get the pvr working under X :P Mar 02 20:05:22 Here is a summary: I wanted to have a sound effect so i tested phonon, gst and pygame. The winner if pygame by far, both in speed and simplicity. Mar 02 20:05:44 pygame uses sdl_mixer I guess? Mar 02 20:06:04 phonon can only play one sound at a time (it dumps core if you try to have two media sources). Gst is VERY resource intensive. The cpu goes to 100% (!). pygame is very simple and easy Mar 02 20:06:57 gst is not for playing your own sound Mar 02 20:07:01 mostly to play mp3s Mar 02 20:07:01 also, if you leave gst without calling set_state(gst.STATE_NULL), pulse keeps running... I suppose it keeps sending a null stream to pulse. Mar 02 20:08:26 btw, pygame has very easy sound preloading: sound=pygame.mixer.Sound("aa.wav"); sound.play() ; sound.play() ... etc... Mar 02 20:08:41 it is loaded in memory. bad for mp3s, good for sound effects. Mar 02 20:10:26 sdl_mixer is it then :) Mar 02 20:10:35 * v13 creates a clone of iphone's "slap me" app. Mar 02 20:11:07 javispedro: i can't tell.. most probably :) Mar 02 20:11:32 then again, isn't pygame a wrapper for sdl ? Mar 02 20:11:58 "Pygame adds functionality on top of the excellent SDL library." Mar 02 20:11:59 yes, but sdlmixer is not actually part of sdl Mar 02 20:12:12 but I just saw the dependencies. Mar 02 20:26:15 wow.. easydebian install made my N900 crash.. for the first time ever! Mar 02 20:29:20 lucky you Mar 02 20:30:13 yeah. it was strange. I had to remove the battery to get it started again.. Mar 02 20:32:23 aww Mar 02 20:32:32 my N900 only crashes its apps! Mar 02 20:37:19 So, I still don't get how to package a python file. I looked around, but while there is a complete and very broad python debian packaging guideline, I don't really see why I should read the whole thing :| I once packaged a normal make/make install C/GTK app I wrote which worked fine with the howto in the maemo wiki, but with this python app I can't get anywhere. I don't exactly get what apt even does with everything. I just have one ... Mar 02 20:37:25 ... .py file and one .sh that I need in conjucntion with the python file. There might be more .sh files in the future. I thought I'd just stick everything in /opt/alarmed and make an ln -s /opt/alarmed/alarmed.py /usr/bin/alarmed (the app is called "alarmed"). But apparently there's even another thing, where you actually put stuff in the usual place (like /usr/share and /usr/bin/) and the optify the deb package. Mar 02 20:37:55 This is all really confusing. And somewhat inconsistent it seems. Why do apps of a different language have different means of being packaged anyway... Mar 02 20:37:56 Shapeshifter. do you want to make a deb or upload to somewhere? Mar 02 20:38:08 Shapeshifter, somewhere being extras-devel Mar 02 20:38:12 Shapeshifter: have a look at maegirls. It is in python and the packaging is simple and works well. Mar 02 20:38:25 (apt-get source maegirls) Mar 02 20:38:51 you'll have to look the "setup.py" and the debian/rules Mar 02 20:39:52 mece: I never worked with extras-devel, but that I guess would make sense. Is there a guide on how to use extras-devel with python apps? Mar 02 20:40:04 v13: thanks I'll look at that. Mar 02 20:40:09 Shapeshifter, py2deb works. Mar 02 20:40:30 anynews on the pr 1.2 release for maemo5? Mar 02 20:40:33 the setup.py prepares a .tgz that can be distributed. Then you package it as a normal debian package using what is in debian/. Mar 02 20:40:53 mece: mhh, I'll look that up Mar 02 20:41:03 Shapeshifter, I Shapeshifter, I do it on my n900 Mar 02 20:41:43 mece: I tried py2deb and i found it somehow not very flexible. e.g. it didn't have easy changelog... etc... Mar 02 20:41:49 Shapeshifter, you can unpack the tar.gz file, and then run debian/rules in scratchbox to create a deb. Mar 02 20:43:21 v13: btw, "This file is part of wifieye." is maegirls part of wifieye or did you just not alter the introduction in setup.py? ^^ Mar 02 20:43:27 oh :) Mar 02 20:43:28 yes :) Mar 02 20:44:26 ok.. it's fixed in svn now :) Mar 02 20:45:01 ;) Mar 02 20:45:52 if you find wifieye or maegirls (or any other app) working ok, don't forget to vote in extras-testing queue Mar 02 20:46:33 So... basically I write a proper setup.py for my app following the official python docs, and that gives me a tgz. Then, I can use py2deb (on the n900, not scratchbox, not desktop?) which gives me a deb? Mar 02 20:46:49 v13: I doubt I need either, but sure :) Mar 02 20:47:05 well.. that's why i didn't say "need" :) Mar 02 20:47:21 Shapeshifter.. errmaybe. Mar 02 20:47:22 btw, am i the only male that finds a program like maegirls useful? Mar 02 20:47:34 maegırls: Mar 02 20:47:34 v13: condoms are sorta simpler Mar 02 20:47:36 ? Mar 02 20:47:43 maegirls is what again? :P Mar 02 20:47:50 exactly Mar 02 20:47:56 link? :P Mar 02 20:48:00 eer... :) Mar 02 20:48:05 v13: or do you use it to track several women you meet in your daily life? xD Mar 02 20:48:08 is easydebian supposed to mount dbus and pulse? Mar 02 20:48:19 shapeshifteR: that was for the fun of it :) Mar 02 20:48:29 http://maemo.org/packages/view/maegirls/ Mar 02 20:48:35 MaeGirls is a program to monitor women's cylce. This can be helpfull for a number of reasons, both if you are a man or a woman. <- typo Mar 02 20:48:47 just give them all the same perfume, they won't suspect you! Mar 02 20:49:04 Stskeeps: what is the typo? Mar 02 20:49:08 "helpful" ? Mar 02 20:49:10 v13: 'cylce' Mar 02 20:49:11 helpfull Mar 02 20:49:14 but yeah, that too Mar 02 20:49:15 oh ! Mar 02 20:49:55 arg.. that's in debian/control and i can't change that from here. Mar 02 20:50:03 does it support more than one profile? :P Mar 02 20:50:09 yes :) Mar 02 20:50:12 great! Mar 02 20:50:44 well.. the original did, so i said.. what the heck :) Mar 02 20:51:00 a man made that program I guess Mar 02 20:51:01 xD Mar 02 20:51:07 me:) Mar 02 20:51:17 well good job Mar 02 20:51:30 multiple profiles can come in handy :D Mar 02 20:51:39 ....not that I should know but oh well Mar 02 20:51:44 i never used them except from testing, but... :) Mar 02 20:52:20 why are there no screenshots? Mar 02 20:52:27 wormsxulla: ? Mar 02 20:52:36 of maegirls Mar 02 20:52:47 where would screenshots go ? Mar 02 20:53:01 i don't know, somewhere :) Mar 02 20:53:02 in t.m.o ? Mar 02 20:53:11 maybe! Mar 02 20:53:14 has somebody tested opengles with sdl1.3? Mar 02 20:53:15 well. i'm not going to start an "announce" thread for that app :) Mar 02 20:53:29 mikkov: I'm just minutes from commiting my sdl 1.2 gles stuff. Mar 02 20:53:50 v13: being a girl, i'm interested in it (i wonder if it could be moded to monitor men's cycle, and stuff ;) ) Mar 02 20:54:02 mens cycle? Mar 02 20:54:17 * Arif_ ponders on that one Mar 02 20:54:19 wormsxulla: well... that would be boring... a.k.a. ssdd Mar 02 20:54:32 javispedro: so we can use GLES with sdl1.2? Mar 02 20:54:36 yep Mar 02 20:54:39 well, yes, actually.. there is a kind of cycle for men, too :p Mar 02 20:54:52 only for non-single men Mar 02 20:55:00 :) Mar 02 20:55:04 javispedro: where I can find the sources? (after you've made the commit) Mar 02 20:55:15 in my sdlhildon garage project Mar 02 20:55:27 oh that's why I have no idea what you're on about :P Mar 02 20:55:47 javispedro: cool, I'll check it out. Mar 02 20:55:51 mikkov, what are you porting? Mar 02 20:56:20 mece: I'll tell you if it works :) Mar 02 20:57:11 mikkov, nice. I've been working on lordsawar btw. could have worked right away if glibmm would not have been crippled... Mar 02 20:57:13 anyone ever used QLCDNumber in maemo? Mar 02 21:00:53 mikkov: http://git.maemo.org/git/sdlhildon/?p=sdlhildon;a=blob;f=sdlgles/src/SDL_gles.h Mar 02 21:01:14 mikkov: the api is designed to resemble 1.3' but work as a 1.2 addon Mar 02 21:01:31 (only difference is the createcontext/deletecontext calls) Mar 02 21:02:09 also it should work with both gles1.1 and gles2.0 (unlike sdl1.3 which is gles1.1 only atm) Mar 02 21:02:24 Hello! Does anyone know if and how nick completions works with xchat on maemo? Mar 02 21:03:55 a gles1 http://git.maemo.org/git?p=sdlhildon;a=blob;f=sdlgles/test/gles1.c for example Mar 02 21:03:59 hmmm Mar 02 21:04:01 well, gotta go for a moment. Mar 02 21:04:02 javispedro: Without know what you're refering to ^^, QPainter should use able gles-2.0 as backend. Mar 02 21:04:19 can anyone help me in creating an application shortcut that has a defined icon and opens a defined web address? Mar 02 21:04:45 ... should be able to use gles-2.0 as a backend... Mar 02 21:04:46 sry Mar 02 21:04:57 libgles2-sgx-img-dev Mar 02 21:05:33 irssi cpu use is too high Mar 02 21:05:55 remoo pupnik Mar 02 21:13:43 Hi Mar 02 21:14:28 Is there somebody who knows how to reset/clean completely the OpenSSH installation on N900? Mar 02 21:15:17 please Mar 02 21:17:51 spider_: well, basically apt-get remove openssh, and delete your ~/.ssh Mar 02 21:18:52 And check nothing has set your ~ to 777 permission :/ Mar 02 21:19:00 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=553014#post553014 Mar 02 21:19:01 ! :P Mar 02 21:19:10 Shapeshifter: just done, but if I reinstall it, it doesn't ask me again for password!! How can I solve this problem? Mar 02 21:19:35 the password is set in /etc/passwd Mar 02 21:19:44 ah Mar 02 21:19:53 the password is set in /etc/passwd Mar 02 21:19:58 (oops) Mar 02 21:19:58 ok Mar 02 21:20:50 so removing the corresponding line from passwd file should be enough, right? Mar 02 21:20:56 NO! Mar 02 21:20:58 DON'T! Mar 02 21:21:09 *facepalm* Mar 02 21:21:10 * Stskeeps twitches Mar 02 21:21:16 :) Mar 02 21:21:20 go ahead and do! Mar 02 21:21:23 * Arif_ runs Mar 02 21:21:33 so, what I can do? Mar 02 21:21:39 run "passwd -l user" to lock the user Mar 02 21:21:44 what do you want to do ? Mar 02 21:22:19 i mean: what is your final objective/target ? Mar 02 21:22:21 v13: I want to reinstall OpenSSH and make it able to ask me again for a new password Mar 02 21:22:29 why, exactly? Mar 02 21:22:31 why ask for a password? just to change it ? Mar 02 21:22:37 passwd root Mar 02 21:22:37 :P Mar 02 21:22:51 stskeeps: you mean: user :) Mar 02 21:22:52 :) Mar 02 21:23:08 i'm pretty sure it's root Mar 02 21:23:25 vipw Mar 02 21:23:35 perhaps you should not have a root password until you understand the risks Mar 02 21:24:14 v13: well, on the n900, with rootsh installed, I don't think it really makes a difference if someone hacks your root pw or your user pw. Mar 02 21:24:30 Shapeshifter: unless it is a bot :) Mar 02 21:24:36 v13: mhh, right. Mar 02 21:25:11 v13: why you said before : Mar 02 21:25:17 [22:20] NO! Mar 02 21:25:18 [22:20] DON'T! Mar 02 21:25:33 because you'd most probably need a reflash after that :) Mar 02 21:25:36 because deleting the root line from passwd = bricked Mar 02 21:25:57 but nooo. Mar 02 21:26:09 of course I'll not delete it Mar 02 21:26:32 I wanted to delete the line concerning the "SSH daemon" Mar 02 21:26:46 indeed.. there is aline for that Mar 02 21:26:54 yes :) Mar 02 21:26:58 it's the last one Mar 02 21:27:07 i suggest userdel, Mar 02 21:27:15 added for "sshd" Mar 02 21:27:17 wait what is going on? Mar 02 21:27:44 just done with userdel Mar 02 21:27:55 not I'll try to reinstall OpenSSH Mar 02 21:28:04 but there will be no good in deleting this line. it is just used for setting sshd's userid for privilege separation i believe Mar 02 21:28:27 gah how do I get that stupid lock of dpkg again? Mar 02 21:28:28 there is a group for ssh too Mar 02 21:28:40 mece: close the app manager? Mar 02 21:28:48 mhhh....I think you are right....so where is stored the password for that user? Mar 02 21:29:00 v13, it's easydebian chroot. Mar 02 21:29:14 the root's password it stored in root's line and the user's password is stored in user's line Mar 02 21:29:19 just do "passwd -l user" Mar 02 21:29:34 :> Mar 02 21:30:00 mece.. oh .. Mar 02 21:30:10 nvrmind. I'll just use synaptic Mar 02 21:30:15 woot, N900 bought \:D/ Mar 02 21:30:33 LiraNuna, yay! Mar 02 21:31:51 v13: after typing "passwd -l sshd" it just says "Password changed." <---???? Mar 02 21:32:01 it locks the user Mar 02 21:32:04 arg... not sshd... Mar 02 21:32:11 spider why do you want sshd to ask for the password ? Mar 02 21:33:05 forgetting passwords you dont use is easy :D Mar 02 21:33:09 v13: because I'm not able to login to SSH on N900 form my pc Mar 02 21:33:24 anymore Mar 02 21:33:34 write exactly this: passwd user Mar 02 21:33:41 then set a new password Mar 02 21:33:49 then connect with ssh, with username "user" Mar 02 21:34:13 "preparing packages" reminds me of "What are you preparing? You're always preparing! Just go!" Mar 02 21:34:55 lol Mar 02 21:35:07 wonder who said that....and where Mar 02 21:35:09 :) Mar 02 21:35:13 feck! the lock is still there! Mar 02 21:35:57 Arif_, does this help: http://moronail.net/img/1976_we_aint_found_shit Mar 02 21:36:06 v13: ok, I have solved. when you connect from pc to N900 it asks for "root" password, so on N900 you need to change the pass for root user Mar 02 21:36:16 no it doesn't Mar 02 21:36:27 you specify what user you want in your client. Mar 02 21:36:27 =p Mar 02 21:36:34 so say you want "user" Mar 02 21:36:39 (in your ssh client) Mar 02 21:36:57 like: user@192.168.x.x ? Mar 02 21:37:03 zoutube needs "copy current video url" Mar 02 21:37:10 if you're @ linux/unix then yes Mar 02 21:37:24 if you use putty then it asks at login Mar 02 21:39:16 v13: last question...is there a way to avoid every time that the client asks for password to connect to N900? Mar 02 21:39:23 yes Mar 02 21:39:25 :) Mar 02 21:39:27 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1COcy40b_c&feature=sub Demonstration of instant loading of games from SD card, abiword, pdf, filebrowser, battery life looking to be 10 hours plus (pandora) Mar 02 21:39:44 v13: ssh-agent? Mar 02 21:39:49 newbie question... is there a way to test MfE using the sdk emulator, there aren't any service providers and i assume it has something to do with the operator and country code not be sent?? Mar 02 21:40:01 spider_: either ssh-agent or public-key. I prefer public-key. Mar 02 21:40:18 spider_: copy ~/.ssh/id_rsa.pub phone:~/.ssh/authorised_keys Mar 02 21:40:30 spider_: and ensure authorised_keys has permissions 600 Mar 02 21:40:32 javispedro: gles1 test program fails for me, gles2 works Mar 02 21:40:50 mikkov: yes, just noticed that, commited too fast. Mar 02 21:40:54 hmm apparently I had to remove /var/lib/dpkg/triggers dir and mkdir it again. then it worked. weird. Mar 02 21:41:18 ah here is it! it was the permission step I missed! :) Mar 02 21:41:50 many thx guys! Mar 02 21:43:45 spider_: also ~ has to not have group or world write - though this will not usually be a problem. Mar 02 21:44:19 mikkov: but do you like the general idea? only missing to public API would be a SDL_GL_Set/GetAttribute-like API. Mar 02 21:47:42 are addressbook and calendar applications opensource? Mar 02 21:49:38 http://stuff.moritzg.ch/gprsdataresetter Here's a simple script I wrote that resets the gprs data counter. It _should_ set the "last reset date" but for some reason it shows up as "Never" in the settings, if I use this script. Any clues why? If I compare 'gconftool-2 -R /system/osso/connectivity/network_type/GPRS' before and after using my script or the "reset" button in the settings, I don't see any difference. The gprs_reset_time I ... Mar 02 21:49:44 ... set is valid Mar 02 21:52:06 javispedro: yes, I think this is very good, better than other options Mar 02 21:52:37 better than bare xlib :) Mar 02 21:55:41 hi Mar 02 21:55:47 news about kexec? Mar 02 21:57:17 lol @ http://maemo.nokia.com/img/header-discoverthefox.png Mar 02 21:58:09 Through Ovi Store Mar 02 21:58:11 Such fail. Mar 02 21:58:23 evening Mar 02 21:58:28 I guess you did watch this video already? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWz7ChHaXtE Mar 02 21:58:35 (Discover the Fox - Firefox on Nokia N900) Mar 02 21:58:58 Hi, lardman. Mar 02 21:59:02 v13: what does this line do? "# $Id: setup.py 2266 2010-02-21 19:33:27Z v13 $" Mar 02 21:59:05 hey GeneralAntilles Mar 02 21:59:14 Shapeshifter: it's a comment Mar 02 21:59:20 SpeedEvil: well I know that. ;) Mar 02 21:59:22 Shapeshifter: at least in most languages Mar 02 21:59:31 should not have said "does" Mar 02 21:59:35 rather, "means". Mar 02 22:00:24 I mean, I also see it's the name of the file, some sort of revision maybe, a date and his name... but why? Mar 02 22:00:50 javispedro, the maemo.org logo in there is a bit ironic. Mar 02 22:01:03 GeneralAntilles: the entire ad is weird. Mar 02 22:01:11 Shapeshifter: It's from the svn. just ignore it. it's useful for knowing what revision is this file from. Mar 02 22:01:13 I wonder what it tries to .. symbolize. Mar 02 22:01:25 javispedro, apparently Mozilla employees are all moles? Mar 02 22:01:35 Firefox is still too slow compared to MicroB Mar 02 22:01:56 GeneralAntilles: I understood the opposite: that all Nokia employees (and maemo.org) are moles, working underground for the only Mozilla employee. Mar 02 22:02:06 v13: I see Mar 02 22:02:47 Shapeshifter: fwiw, it says: setup.py revision 2266 changes 2010-02-21 19:33:27Z by v13 Mar 02 22:02:50 javispedro, who only does QA? :D Mar 02 22:03:16 zoutube also cannot accept youtube urls directly Mar 02 22:03:27 heh, if his paws allow him to do qa :) Mar 02 22:03:33 v13: mhh Mar 02 22:04:20 Firefox is often faster than microb I find Mar 02 22:04:28 even usually, on slower networks Mar 02 22:04:35 javispedro, I bet they work great on the capacitive N900+1. :rolleyes: Mar 02 22:04:44 * javispedro wonders where is the maemo.org underground mole base Mar 02 22:04:52 in Finland for sure, since it's all snowy >:) Mar 02 22:04:59 SpeedEvil: really? faster than MicroB? Mar 02 22:05:03 spider_: yes. Mar 02 22:05:33 spider_: forex ~20%-30% faster at painting www.ebay.com www.slashdot.com Mar 02 22:05:50 spider_: especially if you kill microb first Mar 02 22:05:59 mmhh...maybe downloading webpages...but opening windows, options and so on I found it slower Mar 02 22:06:17 Only because the Gecko is newer. Mar 02 22:06:17 spider_: perhaps - in some ways. Tabs is a great speedup for me Mar 02 22:06:21 PR1.2 may catch up. Mar 02 22:06:33 yeah, I agree Mar 02 22:06:39 uhm Mar 02 22:06:42 The task manager blows in general - which is the larger problem Mar 02 22:06:47 Fennec has a newer, faster engine, MicroB has the faster native UI. Mar 02 22:06:52 you can't flip between windows. Mar 02 22:07:07 SpeedEvil, somebody has a patched h-d running around somewhere. Mar 02 22:07:24 SpeedEvil, do you have the camera key/proximity daemon installed? Mar 02 22:07:39 GeneralAntilles: yes. camkeyd IIRC Mar 02 22:08:03 so, in which repo is this firefox. I can't seem to find it Mar 02 22:08:07 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_JxD0l2uPo Mar 02 22:09:05 Shapeshifter, Ovi Store :rolleyes: Mar 02 22:09:11 Because the Mozilla people are lazy bastards. Mar 02 22:09:25 pff Mar 02 22:09:28 :3 Mar 02 22:09:53 Shapeshifter, seriously. Mar 02 22:10:07 I guess Nokia may have played a part in this. Mar 02 22:10:08 They couldn't be bothered to fix their packaging so they decided to distribute through the Ovi Store. Mar 02 22:10:20 the firefox people should get their whole app structure sorted anyway Mar 02 22:10:27 Indeed Mar 02 22:10:50 what a mess. Mar 02 22:11:29 * Shapeshifter is only waiting for chromium to get a frontend to no-script like features (which have finally been implemented for a couple of weeks) to switch away from that lazy fox Mar 02 22:11:34 (on the desktop) Mar 02 22:12:01 what is better than microb Shapeshifter ? Mar 02 22:12:21 thanks matthew- :) Mar 02 22:12:29 is there a maemo tunes radio station :p Mar 02 22:12:48 with javacrap pausing it doesnt chew much cpu usually Mar 02 22:13:13 anyone know if you can tell KMPlayer to play a file with a shortcut? Mar 02 22:13:53 pupnik: mh? I meant, on the desktop, where I'm using firefox, I'm waiting for chromium to get a wee bit better to switch. on the n900, I'm using microb. I don't find it that bad. Tad slow really Mar 02 22:14:22 which is to be expected Mar 02 22:15:28 * n00bmonk3y blinks Mar 02 22:20:40 you all need to play a bit with a n810. Mar 02 22:20:44 if you say "microb is slow". Mar 02 22:22:14 * javispedro wonders which wikipedia admin allowed http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARM_architecture#PS3_Date_Controversy Mar 02 22:24:15 wtf Mar 02 22:24:59 javispedro: guess so. It's still like 5-50 times slower then anything I have on my lap top. I'd still say mobile computing sucks big time. The n900 is actually my first mobile on contract that does more then just SMS... Mar 02 22:25:05 heh true javispedro Mar 02 22:25:28 it's pretty decent. Actually, I love it :D Still, it's relatively bad. Or, far away of what I'd like to have Mar 02 22:27:20 Does anybody here know howto get ÅÄÖ to work (UTF-8) with OpenSSH from the N900 to "screen:ed irssi"? Mar 02 22:27:37 javispedro: that article is not locked in any way, so there was no need for "allowing". You can change it yourself :) Mar 02 22:27:37 the n900's browsing experience is the first i've found that stands up against my archos imt (which is really nice to browse with), so things are at least going in the right direction Mar 02 22:28:36 v13: if I delete the entire paragraph (which is the only real solution) the only thing I'm going to create is a flame war. Mar 02 22:28:42 s/paragraph/section Mar 02 22:29:32 I saved you the trouble. Mar 02 22:29:37 speaking about flames, piracy thread in tmo. Mar 02 22:29:48 lol Mar 02 22:30:03 javispedro: I believe it is ok if you delete it and move it in the "discussion" page Mar 02 22:30:21 nid0: well, thanks :D Mar 02 22:30:23 piracy is bad 'mkay Mar 02 22:30:26 =P Mar 02 22:30:54 yes, please do not kill innocent people while you raid their ships at high seas Mar 02 22:30:56 :( Mar 02 22:32:40 ah, the entire article's been trolled now Mar 02 22:32:40 javispedro: why not allow it? Mar 02 22:32:56 luke-jr: did you really read it? Mar 02 22:33:00 javispedro: yeah Mar 02 22:33:12 it gets slightly off-topic, but other than that... Mar 02 22:33:23 "sligthly"? Mar 02 22:33:34 wait Mar 02 22:33:35 PS3 Mar 02 22:33:37 that isn't ARM... Mar 02 22:36:07 Heya everyone Mar 02 22:36:23 hai Mar 02 22:36:36 hows everyone today? Mar 02 22:36:44 productive Mar 02 22:36:55 I saved myself a lot of time today :P Mar 02 22:37:13 http://www.pygame.org/project-Barbie+Seahorse+Adventures-406-.html nice side scroller in pygame Mar 02 22:37:25 Barbie Mar 02 22:37:27 sounds scary Mar 02 22:37:34 yes Mar 02 22:37:38 port it to maemo! Mar 02 22:38:05 Arif_: ive been productive today at work too, its 2:30 and im finally eating lunch. Wish i didnt have to be productive today though as its my birthday. Mar 02 22:38:14 oh Mar 02 22:38:15 I don't work Mar 02 22:38:31 oh sorry to hear you got old ;( Mar 02 22:38:32 er Mar 02 22:38:37 heh Mar 02 22:38:39 25 isnt that old! Mar 02 22:38:45 Xisdibik: yes it is. Mar 02 22:38:46 wow Mar 02 22:38:51 I'm not even 20! Mar 02 22:38:56 heh Mar 02 22:39:03 you young whippersnappers! Mar 02 22:39:10 there you go Mar 02 22:39:22 why i remember when i was young, we had to walk 20 miles in the snow, with no shoes, just to get to school Mar 02 22:39:37 good luck finding snow in .nl Mar 02 22:39:57 heh Mar 02 22:40:04 good luck finding snow in Berkeley California :P Mar 02 22:40:14 theres snow here about once every 50 years Mar 02 22:40:19 I walk 100m to the bus stop Mar 02 22:40:23 that's far too :( Mar 02 22:40:35 I drive for about 1.5 miles to a subway station Mar 02 22:40:40 and then take the subway for 30-45 minutes to work Mar 02 22:40:51 I take the bus for 45 minutes Mar 02 22:40:56 then the metro for 10 minutes Mar 02 22:40:59 to go to school ;( Mar 02 22:41:08 damn uni :P Mar 02 22:41:11 it should be closer! Mar 02 22:41:27 pytowerdefense ??? Mar 02 22:41:28 Arif_: Live in a toilet. Mar 02 22:41:29 to get to school i drive to the subway station, then take the subway for 1 hour, and then take a school shuttle for 15 minutes Mar 02 22:41:31 :) Mar 02 22:41:34 ok.. that's a good one for n900 most probably :) Mar 02 22:41:44 shuttle? Mar 02 22:41:58 like a bus, but it only stops at the subway station, and the school Mar 02 22:42:04 aw Mar 02 22:42:06 (that one: http://www.pygame.org/project-PyTowerDefense-1332-.html) Mar 02 22:42:11 I was imagining you flying around the moon Mar 02 22:42:11 i think we have a towerdefense clone, no v13 ? Mar 02 22:42:23 ? Mar 02 22:42:28 which is that ? Mar 02 22:42:40 * v13 slow Mar 02 22:42:50 * Xisdibik fast Mar 02 22:43:23 I would love to seen Bloons Tower Defense 1-4 ported to Maemo Mar 02 22:43:42 I'd like to see all games ported Mar 02 22:43:46 you can never have enough games Mar 02 22:44:03 i could do without Hello Kitty Island Adventure Mar 02 22:44:14 pff Mar 02 22:44:18 hello kitty is cute :D Mar 02 22:44:31 Arif_: I'll port Armagetron if you get me a N900 ;p Mar 02 22:44:32 I prefer Totoro Mar 02 22:44:41 luke-jr: u still dont have one yet? Mar 02 22:44:45 Xisdibik: nope Mar 02 22:44:52 luke-jr, it took me 2 months to get my own Mar 02 22:44:56 luke-jr: cant you second mortgage your soul to the devil for one? Mar 02 22:45:00 impressive number of pygame projects Mar 02 22:45:01 Xisdibik: not worth it Mar 02 22:45:10 sure it is Mar 02 22:45:16 at the end I gave up Mar 02 22:45:23 and got one 2nd hand Mar 02 22:45:23 :P Mar 02 22:45:40 took me about 2 months to get as well thanks to shitty o2 being shit :< Mar 02 22:46:06 why get a device with 256 MB RAM when devices with 1 GB RAM are coming out? Mar 02 22:46:14 v13: i seem to recall a thread on t.m.o Mar 02 22:46:15 especially when it's such a steep price Mar 02 22:46:23 because they run javadroid? Mar 02 22:46:27 Arif_: and? Mar 02 22:46:32 luke-jr: because i want you to port Armagetron to it so i can play Mar 02 22:46:33 I hear amount of ram === the only thing needed to make a good phone? Mar 02 22:46:38 owait. Mar 02 22:46:39 they don't like streaming video :* Mar 02 22:46:47 Arif_: I would only tolerate Maemo to port Armagetron for you. after that, Maemo gets wiped Mar 02 22:46:56 lol Mar 02 22:46:59 uh my n900 is kinda not usable w/o external headphones or smth Mar 02 22:46:59 nid0: nope, but it's a big factor; also, I don't want a phone Mar 02 22:47:01 :( Mar 02 22:47:02 sad Mar 02 22:47:19 phone speaker dead? Mar 02 22:47:20 matthew-, because the speakers suck? Mar 02 22:47:34 matthew-: I hear Nokia fixes speakers w/ warranty Mar 02 22:48:24 nid0: in any case, RAM is basically the only good thing I see in N900 Mar 02 22:48:33 RAM? Mar 02 22:48:48 I was going to say that RAM is the worst part of it.. Mar 02 22:48:48 javispedro: yeah, RAM Mar 02 22:49:01 I don't need 1GB of RAM to stream TV shows =P Mar 02 22:49:08 Arif_: and TV shows are useless Mar 02 22:49:09 what I do need is a bigger screen Mar 02 22:49:23 hd2 is the phone to get then if you want screen size Mar 02 22:49:25 Arif_: exactly my point Mar 02 22:49:31 N900 screen < N900 RAM Mar 02 22:49:39 well, that is true too :) Mar 02 22:49:43 I don't want crashdows mobile Mar 02 22:49:51 nid0: I want at minimum 512 MB RAM, 4" screen, USABLE keyboard, etc Mar 02 22:49:56 dont fail at using it and winmo doesnt crash Mar 02 22:49:59 Arif_: learn to port Linux Mar 02 22:50:18 nid0: you shouldn't need to be careful with an OS for it to not crash Mar 02 22:50:25 maybe I'll get a WP7 phone Mar 02 22:50:33 when they port coreplayer Mar 02 22:50:35 and you dont need to be careful with winmo, you have to utterly fail at it Mar 02 22:50:38 I hope Nexus Two is decent Mar 02 22:50:48 coreplayer was so awesome ;( Mar 02 22:50:54 it will still be capacitive and use android Mar 02 22:51:16 javispedro: if it's actually free software for hw support, better than Maemo Mar 02 22:51:24 fat chance of that Mar 02 22:51:35 oh, who knows. Mar 02 22:51:38 even my girlfriend's been able to use her hd2 for almost 3 months without so much as a blip from it, and shes the kind of person who technology just tends to break around Mar 02 22:51:45 android has all the same hardware support issues maemo has Mar 02 22:51:49 speaking of which, anyone ever confirm N1's actual software status? Mar 02 22:52:03 microlith: Android in general, yes. Google's own phone... no? Mar 02 22:52:18 luke-jr: google isn't special, it's just an HTC phone with google's logo Mar 02 22:52:34 luke-jr: interesting topic nevertheless. if you ever create a report, please post it somewhere :) Mar 02 22:52:35 microlith: but Google set the requirements Mar 02 22:52:40 means nothing Mar 02 22:52:45 they spec'd it Mar 02 22:52:48 microlith: means quite a bit, from what I see. Mar 02 22:52:49 microlith, +3 Mar 02 22:53:05 they can't say "all the drivers will be open" and I suspect they don't care Mar 02 22:53:15 Google required users to be able to root it with a documented method Mar 02 22:53:23 for the N1, yes Mar 02 22:53:34 but that doesn't mean -anything- with respect to drivers Mar 02 22:53:37 are there any external media players for android? Mar 02 22:53:58 heya GeneralAntilles Mar 02 22:53:59 -external +3rd party Mar 02 22:54:01 how goes things? Mar 02 22:55:04 Xisdibik, having a nice glass of Cabernet Sauvignon and playing Forza 3. Mar 02 22:56:49 No need to port Tower Defence if we were able to get flash mouse events working properly Mar 02 22:57:06 hah. Mar 02 22:57:58 nah Mar 02 22:58:04 flash is too batteryeatingish Mar 02 22:58:20 night all Mar 02 23:00:42 agree with Arif_ Mar 02 23:01:39 The people doing gnash should see if they can get energy efficiency grants. Mar 02 23:01:56 Cutting flash power use by half has to be worth several powerstations Mar 02 23:03:09 how do i manually execute the media player database update Mar 02 23:03:14 ? Mar 02 23:03:32 guillotine. Mar 02 23:03:36 Or firing squad. Mar 02 23:03:51 -.- Mar 02 23:04:02 mpf Mar 02 23:04:07 how do i turn on the mouse pointer? Mar 02 23:04:10 i need it for x2x Mar 02 23:04:11 killing and restarting the tracker daemon should do it - but it has a watchdog - so it will reboot youre device Mar 02 23:04:13 ca certificates list is weird Mar 02 23:04:27 Vanadis__: tracker-processes -r then start media player. Mar 02 23:04:31 timeless_mbp2: do you know where the ca list comes from? (is it the standard nss list, for example?) Mar 02 23:04:56 kthx Mar 02 23:07:30 seems that the list isn't up to date Mar 02 23:07:40 hmmm anyone a pyqt person? :D - i R Need help! Mar 02 23:10:39 bb Mar 02 23:15:13 GeneralAntilles: sounds like your having fun, im leaving work 15 minutes early (cuz its mah birthday), and going home to dishes and homework :/ Mar 02 23:15:53 Xisdibik: Have fun! Mar 02 23:16:01 SpeedEvil: thanks :D Mar 02 23:16:03 Xisdibik: Put some good tunes on, and wash to the beat. Mar 02 23:16:10 heh Mar 02 23:16:17 yea Mar 02 23:16:42 anyone know if you can hide icons from the menu? Mar 02 23:16:49 nite all, sweet dreams Mar 02 23:17:06 GeneralAntilles: oh dear.. :P Mar 02 23:17:28 burchr, hmm? Mar 02 23:17:36 GeneralAntilles: just saw the ML thread Mar 02 23:17:54 burchr, yeah, fun. Mar 02 23:20:13 * n00bmonk3y grumbles...... Grrrrr PyQt Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr Mar 02 23:20:32 n00bmonk3y: what's up? Mar 02 23:20:45 pyqt smells of poo....... want the detail? lol Mar 02 23:21:27 all i want is a message box.... (with no buttons)... just like hildon note, but they dont seem to exist in simple ways in qt :( Mar 02 23:21:37 so it pops up, whilst loading then goes....... Mar 02 23:21:50 or pops up for a second after loading and sys loaded for a second Mar 02 23:22:14 i dont see the point in forcing someone to press when i just want to let them know it is done... Mar 02 23:22:17 make one massive button Mar 02 23:22:24 lol ;) Mar 02 23:22:31 would work better then nothing :) Mar 02 23:22:32 and pop it down after 1s anyway Mar 02 23:22:55 when do the nokia nazi zeppelins come across the lands sending out zaps bricking our n900's forcing us to purchase x86 intel n1000's Mar 02 23:23:13 just bugs me, hildon and gtk have answers... qt doesnt and thats the 1 we are getting stuck with :( Mar 02 23:23:33 ok, tis also the one i started learning, so self inflicted Mar 02 23:23:51 * n00bmonk3y slaps lcuck Mar 02 23:24:05 * n00bmonk3y slaps lcuk, after spelling it correctly Mar 02 23:24:12 acidjazz: last thursday Mar 02 23:24:31 good night everyone Mar 02 23:24:37 you probably want a QMaemo5InformationBox Mar 02 23:24:56 * n00bmonk3y raises an eyebrow Mar 02 23:24:56 but I don't think PyQt will wrap that yet, as it's a Maemo specific class, and Qt 4.6+ only Mar 02 23:25:05 hmmm so wont work? Mar 02 23:25:25 i mean, now in my normall app :( Mar 02 23:25:42 PySide will probably wrap it, but PySide isn't as mature as PyQt. I don't know if PyQt plan to wrap stuff like that - you'd need to ask them. Mar 02 23:25:45 http://qt.nokia.com/doc/qt-maemo-4.6/qmaemo5informationbox.html Mar 02 23:25:46 ooo but looking at it, yes!!! Mar 02 23:25:49 i want i want! Mar 02 23:26:08 cheers woot :( - looks perfect, but still no answer for the now :( Mar 02 23:26:24 no, but you know who to ask :) Mar 02 23:26:30 * w00t wanders off to bed, as it's late Mar 02 23:26:46 hehe :) Mar 02 23:26:52 true i think Mar 02 23:26:54 do i? Mar 02 23:26:55 lol nite! Mar 02 23:27:09 anyway where is qwery and lcuk Mar 02 23:27:12 qwerty* Mar 02 23:27:24 qwerty12's disappeared. Mar 02 23:27:39 he's gone for the operation. Mar 02 23:27:46 He's gonna be azerty when he gets back. Mar 02 23:28:04 eww. he could at least end up as dvorak Mar 02 23:28:18 * arachnist knows how to type on dvorak) Mar 02 23:28:18 lols Mar 02 23:28:22 :> Mar 02 23:28:32 i still need to learn how to type lol Mar 02 23:28:40 arachnist: :D Mar 02 23:28:51 I have given up learning to properly type. Mar 02 23:29:06 I'm at the stage wherre I can go 40wpm under the covers, which is fine for me. Mar 02 23:29:25 I want another keyboard though - with a trackpoint. Mar 02 23:31:57 SpeedEvil: im still lovin my spacesaver II Mar 02 23:32:26 http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/IBM-ENHANCED-KEYBOARD-WITH-TRACKPOINT-II-92G7461_W0QQitemZ290292972127QQcmdZViewItemQQptZPCA_Mice_Trackballs?hash=item4396cf3a5f would be my ideal keyboard. Mar 02 23:32:52 SpeedEvil, http://pckeyboards.stores.yahoo.net/ Mar 02 23:34:16 hmmmm assuming you cant use pyside and pyqt at the same time? Mar 02 23:34:47 GeneralAntilles: won't ship to me. Also the usb one has stupid extra keys. Mar 02 23:35:00 so this makes me more annoyed, hildon, gtk and pyside have an answer, and effing pyqt cant do it.... Mar 02 23:36:25 SpeedEvil, ah, too bad. Mar 02 23:39:03 is it possible to change (or append to) the kernel boot command line on the n900? Mar 02 23:40:23 >the guruguru board will be sweet Mar 02 23:40:54 good q kinetik Mar 02 23:42:31 alternatively, knowing safe start/end memory addresses for the cmemk kernel module with the default kernel would be awesome Mar 02 23:43:44 or a way to pass a bc-cat allocated buffer to the dsp for writing so that the machine doesn't crash :-) Mar 02 23:44:21 would i be better asking in #maemo-devel? Mar 02 23:44:24 I would ask felipec, but it doesn't look like he's here now. Mar 02 23:45:08 good idea Mar 02 23:45:38 It _is_ after midnight in Finland. Mar 02 23:47:12 Isn't that when people are most active? Mar 02 23:47:13 Does he turn into a pumpkin after midnight? Mar 03 00:26:09 hello, guys, I've modified /etc/sudoers badly, and now root mode is unavailable due to corrupted sudoers file. Could you please help to recover? What is update-sudeors? Seems like I have not got it... Mar 03 00:30:03 mmarc__: install openssh server Mar 03 00:30:14 I've got it Mar 03 00:30:21 mmarc__: it should permit root logins and ask you for a root password when installing Mar 03 00:31:24 unpacking easydebian image takes more that 3 hours :-/ Mar 03 00:32:00 how could I install anything if app manager won't work with corrupted sudoers? Mar 03 00:32:57 typing root in ssh session returns Mar 03 00:32:57 >>> sudoers file: syntax error, line 75 <<< Mar 03 00:32:57 sudo: parse error in /etc/sudoers near line 75 Mar 03 00:34:57 arachnist: sorry, unclear, could you please explain Mar 03 00:35:04 mmarc__: In the absence of anyuone with better ideas - if you can't become root - you can't fix it. Mar 03 00:35:10 You're gonna need to flash. Mar 03 00:35:36 At least if you can't install stuff too Mar 03 00:36:14 and what is update-sudoers? Mar 03 00:36:39 greetings maemoans Mar 03 00:41:24 I also have opened Xterminal on N900, but I cannot type to it due to some reason, probably, after vimming Mar 03 00:41:42 *I also have opened ROOT Xterminal on N900, but I cannot type to it due to some reason, probably, after vimming Mar 03 00:48:00 any guide or howto for refalsh?? Mar 03 00:49:38 found Mar 03 00:57:05 another question: any chance to access apt-like repository for maemo? Everything I've succeeded with is installable only through app manager gui. Mar 03 00:57:23 mmarc__: Maemo runs apt. Mar 03 00:57:34 mmarc__, the application manager is just an apt front-end. . . . Mar 03 00:57:38 mmarc__: That thing just... Mar 03 00:57:42 mmarc__: nvm, he beat me to it. Mar 03 00:59:55 That's not so for me, I can't install anything with apt-get, it cannot find packages... Mar 03 01:00:25 be careful with manual apt ... it easily fills up your root partition Mar 03 01:00:43 Is anybody maintaining custom repos? Mar 03 01:00:56 some do Mar 03 01:01:06 mmarc__, Extras provides you with just about everything you need. Mar 03 01:01:15 apt-get works just fine here. Mar 03 01:01:27 The packages you're looking for simply may not exist. Mar 03 01:01:30 how, for example, with midnight commander? Can't find it. Mar 03 01:01:48 mmarc__: Huh? apt-cache search Mar 03 01:02:04 also I tried apt-get install dosbox, that was not found, but it definitely exist Mar 03 01:02:04 mmarc__: What package are you trying to install? Mar 03 01:02:43 dosbox, foe example Mar 03 01:02:54 mmarc__: Ok, have you enabled the repository that dosbox is in? Mar 03 01:04:00 Ugh, probably not, it's unclear how it operates repositories... Mar 03 01:04:17 mmarc__: It's apt. Mar 03 01:04:27 mmarc__: It operates repositories in the usual apt manner. Mar 03 01:04:39 okay, I'll try again after reflash, thanks! Mar 03 01:04:44 well .. with some fairy dust .. by nokia Mar 03 01:05:13 cehteh: Okay, there's extra cruft, but the core is apt. It just does magic to make pretty pictures. Mar 03 01:05:27 another thing to ask is what's the propetiary crap are we forced instead of openoffice? Mar 03 01:05:38 Docs2go or something like that Mar 03 01:05:42 and not to fill up the rootfs .. and being able to distributed payware Mar 03 01:05:43 mmarc__: Openoffice is MASSIVE. Mar 03 01:05:58 cehteh: Oh? It can handle payware? Mar 03 01:06:06 am i the only person scared to even breath on a device being flashed? Mar 03 01:06:07 so, what? Mar 03 01:06:08 ovi store? Mar 03 01:06:09 cehteh: How? How do they stop you from just cp the .deb? Mar 03 01:06:19 dunno how it works Mar 03 01:06:21 cehteh: Ok, but dpkg could handle downloadable binaries. Mar 03 01:06:23 * lcuk has done it from day 1 of flashing pc bios Mar 03 01:06:41 mgregsond: maybe https and client certs .. i dont know Mar 03 01:06:47 lcuk: I'm terrified of touching anything. I like to leave the room. Wont even play loud music. ;) Mar 03 01:06:56 :D Mar 03 01:06:56 cehteh: Interesting. Mar 03 01:07:25 cehteh: I'll have to track down proper info on this. Mar 03 01:07:31 try to install something from ovi store and figure out .. i have no idea how thats implemented Mar 03 01:07:34 lcuk, the danger period for flashing is fractions of a second long. Mar 03 01:07:37 okay, except openoffice, there is abiword, for example. But why this 2Go crap? Mar 03 01:07:41 cehteh: Ovistore just looked lame... Mar 03 01:07:43 NOLO is about 8KB last item I checked Mar 03 01:07:47 GeneralAntilles, dont say danger period lol Mar 03 01:07:57 Flashing goes at about 5-8MB/sec Mar 03 01:08:00 its just flashing in general Mar 03 01:08:10 i stop everything im doing on all machines for a few moments Mar 03 01:08:21 mmarc__: I haven't used it, so I don't know how well it actually works. Mar 03 01:08:39 mmarc__: There is nothing stopping you from porting/building an armel package for abiword... Mar 03 01:09:43 there has been nothing stopping many from doing same, afaik qole had it running nicely inside his chroot, whether the extra effort to get it direct in maemo is worth it is another matter (i might be wrong about actual word processor) Mar 03 01:10:16 hey texlive is packaged and emacs too (externally).. i doubt thats smaller then openoffice :) Mar 03 01:10:39 cehteh: Seriously? Mar 03 01:10:39 im thinking mainly about ui changes required Mar 03 01:10:47 cehteh: OpenOffice is enormous. Mar 03 01:10:49 texlive is massive Mar 03 01:11:05 (when you install all bells and whistles) Mar 03 01:11:40 Pelikon's MorphPad is what the N900 keyboard should've been. Mar 03 01:12:24 uhsf, that morphpad is neat :) extremely innovative use of masking Mar 03 01:13:06 anyone here likes packaging for maemo? ... i think i hack a notification light blinker on battery low later but i dont have interest in packaging it Mar 03 01:13:38 abi word is packaged too btw .. never used it Mar 03 01:15:06 After this operation, 123MB of additional disk space will be used. Mar 03 01:15:07 EgS: You don't have enough free space in /var/cache/apt/archives/. Mar 03 01:15:10 ... texlive Mar 03 01:16:25 cehteh: That pissed me off when archives ran out of space. Mar 03 01:16:41 cehteh: I don't mind packaging your shit up if you've got everything else done. Mar 03 01:17:14 2go "crap" is way faster and works with non-native document formats way better Mar 03 01:17:14 thats what the app updater cares for .. using some other temp dir Mar 03 01:17:40 cehteh: Actually... the app updater ran out of space. Mar 03 01:17:45 heh Mar 03 01:17:57 cehteh: I had to work around it by updating from the command line and forcing it to cache in MyDocs. Mar 03 01:18:12 well the partitioning .. or rather mounts are fuba Mar 03 01:18:21 cehteh: Totally. Mar 03 01:18:53 cehteh: It feels like the disk layout and partitioning schemes were designed by an untrained ape on cocaine. Mar 03 01:19:17 i saied that serveral times :P Mar 03 01:20:07 cehteh: Do you by any chance know what package provides the messaging stack? Mar 03 01:20:20 messaging stack? Mar 03 01:20:31 cehteh: dbus/telepathy/empathy/... Mar 03 01:21:09 no Mar 03 01:21:12 any other good console client available? Mar 03 01:21:17 Ah, I'll look it up later.. Mar 03 01:21:17 maybe all in 'mamemo5' Mar 03 01:21:21 mmarc__: huh? Mar 03 01:21:34 cehteh: This is a virtual for many others yes? Mar 03 01:21:35 instead of Xterminal Mar 03 01:21:41 dunno Mar 03 01:21:52 mmarc__: not that i know, why? Mar 03 01:21:53 mmarc__: Have you considered purchasing an actual computer? Mar 03 01:22:14 ssh :) Mar 03 01:22:20 cehteh: That's my favourite. Mar 03 01:22:38 well and the osso-xterm is ok when you have to work on the device .. whats the problem Mar 03 01:22:50 mmarc__: Again, it's running X, you could probably get gnome-terminal running if you want. Mar 03 01:23:11 cmon, guys, I justwant black background, I won't be blind before 50 years old watching white windows all the time! Mar 03 01:23:12 someone once wanted to package rxvt-unicode Mar 03 01:23:34 cehteh: Epic. Any idea how big it wound up being? Mar 03 01:23:41 but i think any non hildonized terminal would be worse than the osso-xterm Mar 03 01:23:51 dunno Mar 03 01:23:54 unpacking easydebian image - almost 4 hours and still working Mar 03 01:24:08 mmarc__: Hmm, interesting proposal. Mar 03 01:24:51 mmarc__: that can be configured Mar 03 01:24:57 cehteh: In osso-xterm? Mar 03 01:24:59 cehteh: How? Mar 03 01:25:01 where? Mar 03 01:25:25 font config Mar 03 01:25:35 cehteh: Ah, one is bg one is fg? Mar 03 01:25:46 .. Mar 03 01:26:15 cehteh: They show up as unlabeled grey squares for me. Mar 03 01:26:20 cehteh: Totally not clear what they do. Mar 03 01:26:39 oh come one Mar 03 01:26:50 cehteh: I didn't test them out. ;) Mar 03 01:26:51 for me too Mar 03 01:27:02 mmarc__: Ok, so the left one is the fg, the right one is the bg. Mar 03 01:27:16 mmarc__: Unless I've forgotten the outcome of my experiment and it's the other way around. ;) Mar 03 01:28:07 hey! It works! Cehteh, thanks, you know, what is behing that gray squares! Mar 03 01:29:06 hm, I need a maemo happiness desktop applet Mar 03 01:29:26 my eyes are saying thanks Mar 03 01:29:31 cehteh: lol, alright fine, I should have tried them Mar 03 01:29:55 cehteh: Still, UI fail for not making things immediately clear. Mar 03 01:38:20 also I have two technical questions Mar 03 01:38:37 1) is N900's ARM multicore? Mar 03 01:39:04 2) what maemo apps benefit from dsp circuit? Mar 03 01:39:22 Video playback Mar 03 01:39:31 propiteary? Mar 03 01:39:41 propietry? Mar 03 01:40:21 mmarc__: I doubt that the processor is multicore. Mar 03 01:40:36 for some definition of multicore .. dunno if the other cores are arm .. its not SMP there is only one main core Mar 03 01:40:40 Well, there are several cores on the SoC Mar 03 01:41:06 the dsp, gpu are some cores and the broadband chipset itself is prolly 2-3 cores Mar 03 01:41:08 i.e. is this video playback source closed Mar 03 01:41:23 all are not available for direct programming, DSP to some extent iirc Mar 03 01:41:23 Cellular is not on the OMAP, however. Mar 03 01:41:36 mmarc__, which part? Mar 03 01:41:41 mmarc__, the backend is MAFW Mar 03 01:41:44 dsp part Mar 03 01:41:47 Which plugs into GStreamer Mar 03 01:41:53 Dunno if the DSP codec is open Mar 03 01:42:02 Depends on which video codec we're talking about, probably. Mar 03 01:42:17 okay, anything else except video uses dsp? Mar 03 01:42:23 mplayer doesnt use the dsp for example Mar 03 01:42:33 well, reasonable Mar 03 01:42:39 There's some various 3rd-party stuff Mar 03 01:42:52 the camera and some voice codecs for speech/telephony afaik Mar 03 01:43:14 skype maybe? Mar 03 01:43:19 Camera has its own core. Mar 03 01:43:27 ISP Mar 03 01:43:38 really .. ok ... one core more Mar 03 01:44:04 mmarc__: generally speakin you can only access and programm on the main cpu Mar 03 01:44:25 cehteh, http://focus.ti.com/general/docs/wtbu/wtbuproductcontent.tsp?contentId=14649&navigationId=12643&templateId=6123 Mar 03 01:44:32 i still miss "phone-as-separate-hardware-thing" approach from old communicators Mar 03 01:44:45 Arkenoi: it is Mar 03 01:44:57 Cellular chipset isn't in the OMAP. Mar 03 01:44:59 well and hosts the GPS Mar 03 01:45:01 well, we need a responsive UI to answer a call Mar 03 01:45:09 ah ok Mar 03 01:45:12 and it is not always possible while cpu is heavy loaded Mar 03 01:45:16 Arkenoi: That needs to be fixed yes. Mar 03 01:45:20 yes all its io goes through the main os Mar 03 01:45:44 Some of the apps or daemons generate high load. Mar 03 01:45:45 but actually i like it this way more .. i have already bad feeling about the gps in the broadband chipset Mar 03 01:45:56 I've seen pulse spike up pretty badly. Mar 03 01:46:05 a propos pulse Mar 03 01:46:37 is it possible to configure pulse so that the left channel of the output is louder than the right one (for the headset) Mar 03 01:46:56 because my headset is borked, and i don't want to send it in yet ;) Mar 03 01:47:01 lol Mar 03 01:47:10 sure your ears arent borked? Mar 03 01:47:25 cehteh, GPS isn't is the cellular chipset is it? Mar 03 01:47:28 well it should be possible .. somewhere in the settings in /etc Mar 03 01:47:30 Cellular is Nokia, GPS is TI. . . . Mar 03 01:47:41 cehteh: yes Mar 03 01:47:59 to ensure, i switched the things you put in ear Mar 03 01:48:03 how do you call them >_> Mar 03 01:48:29 well anyway, it's NOT just in my mind :P Mar 03 01:48:53 huh nokia makes its own chipsets? i thought thats ti too .. but i am quite sure that the gps is attached there .. dunno if that are just io connections to some rather dumb gps or its integrated in the chisept Mar 03 01:49:04 but it is not accessible directly from the main core Mar 03 01:49:44 /*-----------------------------------------------------------------//////////////////////////////////////////////////////// Mar 03 01:49:45 - Mar 03 01:50:04 SpeedEvil: /flushq Mar 03 01:50:50 http://maemos.ru/2010/01/19/abiword-na-n900-word-dlya-maemo-os/ Mar 03 01:51:51 Yeah, Nokia makes its own chipsets. ;) Mar 03 01:52:06 That's the piece of hardware Nokia is bringing to the MeeGo party. Mar 03 01:52:12 how about pulse audio help? Mar 03 01:52:31 * Arkenoi wishes there will be full dtg someday. Mar 03 01:52:33 Kernel sources point to a WiLink 6.0 or 7.0 solution for N900+1. Mar 03 01:53:48 GeneralAntilles: What's the plan for the MeeGo thing anyways? Mar 03 01:53:57 mgregsond, hell if I know. ;) Mar 03 01:54:26 GeneralAntilles: One OS to suck on all platforms? ;) Mar 03 01:54:31 * Xisdibik points at GeneralAntilles's horns. Yes... Hell... you do know! Mar 03 01:57:33 hey, why Maemo Extra reports Unable to find expected entry user/binary-armel/ ... malformed release file Mar 03 01:57:35 ? Mar 03 01:58:13 mmarc__: What's the URL you fed in? Mar 03 01:58:33 http://repository.maemo.org/extrasemI Mar 03 01:58:41 http://repository.maemo.org/extras Mar 03 01:59:05 mmarc__: And the other settings? Mar 03 01:59:43 what is the size of the unpacked debian-m5-v3b.img.ext2 ? could anyone check please? i'd like to know how much is left.. Mar 03 02:00:10 oh, the components field was incorrect, my bad Mar 03 02:03:54 i hate it when games are just designed for the us keyboard layout Mar 03 02:04:32 ... and they don't have configurable bindings. Mar 03 02:04:47 yeah! Mar 03 02:05:01 yeah! Mar 03 02:06:17 mmhhhh......I ♥ peanut butter Mar 03 02:06:39 its so delicious Mar 03 02:17:12 hello all: I just downloaded osso-applet-screencalibration-l10n-zhhk --> is there a way to run this? and where is it installed? Mar 03 02:17:56 orbarron: normally thats part of the settings .. that package above is only some localization for ot Mar 03 02:17:59 it Mar 03 02:18:14 so I am missing for setting apps... Mar 03 02:18:25 * orbarron has one off environment Mar 03 02:18:40 is there a way to get the calibration app? Mar 03 02:19:04 eh? Mar 03 02:19:55 cehteh: my environment does not have this calibration tool in settings. even if it did I am not sure I can access is since my touch is way off Mar 03 02:20:01 orbarron: Have you restarted the app in question to get it to use the new settings? Mar 03 02:20:25 orbarron: it should be on a stock device .. makes me wonder if its not there Mar 03 02:21:01 * orbarron believes it should have it... but for some reason it is missing Mar 03 02:21:26 * orbarron so wondering if it is possible to just get this app. Mar 03 02:22:07 the calibration tool is under the settings app Mar 03 02:22:55 * orbarron wonder if settings app is available? Mar 03 02:24:23 it's cool that nokia ovi music store is drm-free. one more + for me to appreciate my n900. now if they could sell .ogg and .flac i could even buy music online one day, who knows Mar 03 02:25:14 how about this one: hildon-im-plugin-base-settings Mar 03 02:25:16 there is a music store? Mar 03 02:25:45 After I set up user and root passwords, app manager now shows empty repos list, reporting in log the apt worker has exited. What might be the issue? Mar 03 02:26:40 uhsf: i agree about the flac part :D Mar 03 02:27:01 and if the flac support was fixed, it'd be awesome, too Mar 03 02:27:09 Oh, and niw it is ok, strange... Mar 03 02:44:52 http://pastehtml.com/view/5tk78lb.html is this page down or just me? Mar 03 02:51:40 have the advanced music format support packages STILL not been fixed? D: **** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Mar 03 02:59:58 2010