**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Mar 03 02:59:58 2010 Mar 03 03:16:50 anyone know if video chat works with skype on the\n900? Mar 03 03:17:25 I think that's scheduled for the next big update Mar 03 03:18:15 awesome Mar 03 03:25:59 Skype should be banned from the internet :P Mar 03 03:29:13 luke-jr: nevar Mar 03 03:29:23 Xisdibik: Skype sucks Mar 03 03:29:31 luke-jr: not for me Mar 03 03:29:42 I meant objectively ;P Mar 03 03:29:47 ;P Mar 03 03:29:59 without skype my mom and nephew wouldnt be able to webchat Mar 03 03:30:08 why not? Mar 03 03:30:22 because my mom and my sister are totally not tech savvy enough to use something else? Mar 03 03:30:40 why do you need to use Skype if you're not tech savvy? Mar 03 03:30:53 because its just a simple install thats very simple to use Mar 03 03:31:01 its also handy that you can call real telephones if need be Mar 03 03:33:18 and they're too stupid to use Gizmo or Google Talk? Mar 03 03:33:51 or any of the many other simple standards-compliant clients? Mar 03 03:34:54 Google Talk requires a gmail account Mar 03 03:34:58 which my mom and sister dont have Mar 03 03:35:13 but can easily get Mar 03 03:35:20 Gizmo they dont know anything about Mar 03 03:35:24 also Mar 03 03:35:31 same went for Skype before they learned about it Mar 03 03:35:54 Gizmo > Skype Mar 03 03:35:55 I personally feel skype's sound and video quality are good (given a good connection) Mar 03 03:36:10 I personally havnt used Gizmo, so i cant agree or disagree Mar 03 03:36:24 but given that i have about 180 people on my skype list Mar 03 03:36:25 It's Skype, but with open codecs. :P Mar 03 03:36:27 i cant give it up :p Mar 03 03:36:52 I'm the type of person that filled up their AIM account back when it had limits Mar 03 03:39:20 GAN900: As someone that's used both for years, Skype sounds *MUCH* better than Gizmo and has less latency. Mar 03 03:39:47 That said, I hate using it. Mar 03 03:39:56 zerojay, at the cost of your Freedom. *eg* Mar 03 03:39:59 Skype in linux has alot of issues though Mar 03 03:40:10 so if your comparing skype linux to gizmo that could be why Mar 03 03:40:15 alot of my skyping is from the windows version Mar 03 03:41:05 I still havnt found a setup on my linux partition that i like for my arch install Mar 03 03:48:13 http://lumiera.pastebin.ca/1820440 Mar 03 03:48:34 .. bit fun/protoype .. when i change my mind i code that in C Mar 03 04:13:19 join #maemo Mar 03 04:14:41 you are here already Mar 03 05:41:10 Hi Mar 03 05:43:02 hi Mar 03 05:43:33 I have a question for Bugtracker location Mar 03 05:44:36 I just added XSBC-Bugtracker: to debian/control file and uploaded the package to auto builder Mar 03 05:45:32 pkg was built correctly but maemo.org/packages page still shows "Warning: This package does not have the required bugtracker link specified!" Mar 03 06:01:46 OK, I found the solution. Mar 03 06:02:27 need to locate it after Standards-Version: (before Package: ) Mar 03 06:11:09 Corsac: it's supposed to be the NSS list, however ownership is stolen by another group inside nokia, it's possible they doctor the list Mar 03 06:13:18 Oh noooo, another media framework Mar 03 06:14:20 * RST38h can't stop facepalming lately Mar 03 06:49:20 timeless_mbp2: mhh, ok Mar 03 07:04:36 morning Mar 03 07:08:11 DocScrutinizer: ping Mar 03 07:08:19 Stskeeps: pong? Mar 03 07:08:30 you're not DS :P Mar 03 07:09:55 timeless_mbp2: any idea where they are kept? Mar 03 07:10:23 they're kept by 'maemosec-certman' Mar 03 07:11:36 hmhm, there are multiple cert8.db >< Mar 03 07:12:12 they aren't kept by gecko Mar 03 07:12:19 they're maintained by maemosec-certman Mar 03 07:12:26 at least, in general Mar 03 07:13:19 in .mozilla/{fennec,rtcom,nokia-maps,microb}, in .modest and .osso Mar 03 07:13:34 osso/tutorial presumably Mar 03 07:14:01 fennec is a gecko; nokia-maps, microb, tutorial are microb consumers Mar 03 07:14:22 except the microb and fennec ones, they are identical Mar 03 07:14:46 so I guess maemosec-certman copies them there Mar 03 07:14:54 err Mar 03 07:15:11 that's not how it's supposed to work Mar 03 07:15:17 oh? Mar 03 07:15:25 (I mean, when they are modified) Mar 03 07:15:32 iirc cert8 is basically your private add certs Mar 03 07:15:37 ha yes maybe Mar 03 07:15:41 presumably you haven't added any to fennec Mar 03 07:15:47 so you're comparing a pair of empties Mar 03 07:15:49 how is called the CA file then? Mar 03 07:16:09 as i said, it's not stored in microb, it's managed by maemosec-certman Mar 03 07:16:15 and if you don't pay attention, i will slap you silly Mar 03 07:16:21 rtcom and modest use nss directly Mar 03 07:16:57 yeah but nss uses a cache anyway Mar 03 07:17:02 * tybollt hides :( Mar 03 07:17:08 and it seems to use a different cache for every apps Mar 03 07:17:19 (like in the desktop though) Mar 03 07:17:24 not a cache... Mar 03 07:18:13 well, a private copy Mar 03 07:18:21 since the original one comes directly from nss sources, afair Mar 03 07:18:41 well, err, that's totally not how it works Mar 03 07:18:49 but you're free to think about it wrongly if you like :) Mar 03 07:18:59 I'm kind-of asking you how it works :) Mar 03 07:19:10 nss sources include sources for a library that provides certificates Mar 03 07:19:18 your app can choose not to ship that library Mar 03 07:19:22 or you can replace it later Mar 03 07:19:28 but as it's a library, it's readonly Mar 03 07:19:39 so other changes are stored elsewhere Mar 03 07:19:44 microb doesn't ship that library Mar 03 07:19:50 instead it talks to maemosec-certman Mar 03 07:19:55 which means you should *stop* asking me Mar 03 07:19:59 and start asking *it* Mar 03 07:20:03 is that unclear? Mar 03 07:20:30 i'm only responsible for gecko/upstream Mar 03 07:20:32 * tybollt hiding under desk now... :-( Mar 03 07:20:36 timeless_mbp2: ok, thanks Mar 03 07:20:40 * Corsac looks at tybollt Mar 03 07:20:51 maemosec-certman is not an upstream component, which should be fairly obvious... Mar 03 07:21:03 maemosec-certman-common-ca looks like a good candidate Mar 03 07:21:20 that's roughly the nss database repackaged :) Mar 03 07:21:33 plus whatever totally unapproved changes they may have made :/ Mar 03 07:21:52 btw, what are you actually trying to do? Mar 03 07:22:05 certificates are managed in the control panel Mar 03 07:22:19 timeless_mbp2: get the original list of CA so I can open a bug asking for inclusion of the missing one(s) Mar 03 07:22:38 timeless_mbp2: I noticed some CA (which are in nss) weren't in certman Mar 03 07:22:46 so I had to add them Mar 03 07:24:50 ah Mar 03 07:25:01 well, don't really do that Mar 03 07:25:09 just find the latest bug in bmo that updated the nss database Mar 03 07:25:20 and file a bug in bugs.maemo asking them to update to match *that* update Mar 03 07:25:29 why should you have to do the homework? Mar 03 07:25:44 the database was imported many months ago, and like most things is almost certainly not maintained Mar 03 07:27:02 anyway, the guy who owns maemosec-certman actually is responsive in bugs.maemo Mar 03 07:27:16 he's not a bad guy, he just has a sucky job Mar 03 07:31:55 timeless_mbp2: seems that there are independant bugs in b.moz.o for each CA inclusion, so it might just be best to just ask for a sync to the latest version Mar 03 07:32:13 isn't that what i said? Mar 03 07:33:20 well, you said to look for a bug in bmo, which won't exist Mar 03 07:33:41 bmo=bugzilla.mozilla.org Mar 03 07:33:57 since the file is atomic for a branch, and there are bugs which control all changes to the vcs Mar 03 07:34:10 there will be one bug which was the last bug to trigger an update to that file Mar 03 07:34:56 probably the best thing about maemo=>meego is that bmo will be less ambiguous, because bugs.maemo will become bmc :) Mar 03 07:35:35 :) Mar 03 07:40:17 grmbl, there's no maemosec product? Mar 03 07:56:45 "OMweather requires reboot" what kind of evil crap is that? Mar 03 07:59:44 heh yeah I raised an eyebrow about that as well Mar 03 07:59:47 evilness Mar 03 08:00:19 "Please reboot to complete rootkit initialization" is the one that got me concerned Mar 03 08:00:45 swc|666: ;) Mar 03 08:00:50 :p Mar 03 08:01:25 imean srsly.. who really does code audits / QA for devel/testing type apps u know ;) Mar 03 08:01:47 especially for the poor fools on xda-devs Mar 03 08:01:50 but seriously now, of course a weather application needs a kernel module to raise privs and to accept incoming connections on low ports and to delete random fileson your FS etc Mar 03 08:01:55 swc|666: isn't that your job? :) Mar 03 08:02:03 ;) Mar 03 08:02:18 swc|666: oh the OMWeather messages ? Mar 03 08:02:26 that struck me as totally freaky weird. Mar 03 08:02:41 it even comes up with a "You Must Check This Box to Agree" Mar 03 08:02:51 lucent, nono, i was just extrapolating mindlessly on the OMWeather issue Mar 03 08:03:04 oh yeah Mar 03 08:03:08 in that ballpark* Mar 03 08:03:24 I'm serious about my experience though, it asked me to confirm that I would swear on a bible to reboot after install Mar 03 08:03:27 something like this Mar 03 08:03:44 what could it possibly need that requires a reboot? Mar 03 08:03:44 point being most if not 99.9% of smartphone users really don't take into consideration malware Mar 03 08:03:48 shrug Mar 03 08:04:27 the installer has the "Yeah, right." box for agreeing to install stuff... that's so utterly... ugh blasphemy :) Mar 03 08:05:04 heh Mar 03 08:05:23 and (i'm lazy) who wrote OMWeather btw? Mar 03 08:05:42 "wrote"? it is updated like each and every day Mar 03 08:06:10 heh Mar 03 08:23:33 timeless_mbp2: is there a microb hack or config to open a link in a background window (not taking focus)? That way i could keep reading while the new thing loads... Mar 03 08:24:56 pupnik_: afaiu the window manager sucks Mar 03 08:25:02 +1 Mar 03 08:25:06 i've recently triggered similar issues from a number of other apps Mar 03 08:25:20 so at this point, i'm going to say that even if we bothered to try, the window manager would thwart us Mar 03 08:25:32 gotcha, thanks Mar 03 08:26:30 * timeless_mbp2 tries to turn on an n900 Mar 03 08:26:46 * swc|666 tries to buy an n1000 Mar 03 08:26:50 pupnik_: anyway, the public bug says that there's progress on something Mar 03 08:27:08 most annoying in that department is app manager stealing focus from xterm / irssi after "application successfully installed". i would prefer to only be notified if application was NOT successfully installed. Mar 03 08:27:35 that's nothing :) Mar 03 08:27:35 t1000 Mar 03 08:27:41 try using app manager's restore applications feature Mar 03 08:27:44 I don't agree w/ tat Mar 03 08:27:52 it bothers me many many many times Mar 03 08:27:58 i can't go out for coffee Mar 03 08:28:01 timeless_mbp2: it ha one? Mar 03 08:28:17 tybollt: open backup, create a backup, only check 'application list' or whatever Mar 03 08:28:24 then restore that backup Mar 03 08:28:24 ah ok Mar 03 08:28:30 then open application manager Mar 03 08:28:34 there's an extra menu for it Mar 03 08:28:50 s/menu/menu item/ Mar 03 08:28:50 timeless_mbp2 meant: there's an extra menu item for it Mar 03 08:29:45 couldn't retrieve ip address from network. wep key may be wrong. select network? Mar 03 08:30:05 'may'? Mar 03 08:30:22 tybollt: well, i don't think i'm using 'wep' Mar 03 08:30:33 so "that message may be totally confused" Mar 03 08:30:46 the fact that it didn't tell me _which_ network it had issues w/ didn't help matters Mar 03 08:31:15 * timeless_mbp2 ponders Mar 03 08:31:21 Last sync ... Failed Mar 03 08:31:32 … Invalid Exchange Server host address Mar 03 08:31:43 in English: DNS lookup failed Mar 03 08:31:53 can someone please suggest a replacement for 'Invalid....' ? Mar 03 08:32:48 what is wrong with "DNS lookup failed"? Mar 03 08:32:55 unknown Mar 03 08:32:55 or Mar 03 08:33:02 tybollt: well Mar 03 08:33:02 "Couldn't resolve hostname" Mar 03 08:33:08 or Mar 03 08:33:09 you're assuming someone configured a hostname Mar 03 08:33:19 "You're a user so I hate you!" Mar 03 08:33:21 it's possible i wrote '126.0.0.1' Mar 03 08:33:30 instead of '127.0.0.1' Mar 03 08:33:34 (granted the last one is probably lesser appropriate?) Mar 03 08:33:45 i'll have to check to see if that triggers this error Mar 03 08:33:51 Cannot connect to 'foo.bar.baz'; Mar 03 08:33:51 the problem is that as a user... Mar 03 08:34:02 * timeless_mbp2 rummages around trying to find a 'user' hat Mar 03 08:34:03 timless: "Couldn't resolve hostname" Mar 03 08:34:07 * timeless_mbp2 is sure there's one somewhere Mar 03 08:34:42 … as a user … i don't know what other errors are available Mar 03 08:35:03 timeless_mbp2: one the head of you voodoo dolls maybe ? Mar 03 08:35:04 tybollt: i think 'Couldn't find Exchange Server' might work Mar 03 08:35:22 marmoute: probably buried in someone else's closet Mar 03 08:35:53 timeless_mbp2: fair enough, me likey Mar 03 08:37:01 * timeless_mbp2 cries Mar 03 08:37:19 my .ssh directory isn't here Mar 03 08:37:22 * timeless_mbp2 wonders where it is Mar 03 08:37:28 ... Mar 03 08:38:22 exchange ftfl Mar 03 08:41:25 * timeless_mbp2 tries to figure out what the heck a syncing status of 'Stopped' means Mar 03 08:42:47 ok Mar 03 08:42:57 afaict this message is reserved for cases where dns lookups fail Mar 03 08:43:11 * johnx wants to stab malware writers ... Mar 03 08:43:30 * swc|666 wants to stab facebook users Mar 03 08:45:33 in terms of negative social impact on the internet, I think virus writers still win ;) Mar 03 08:47:24 "old school" virus writers tended to their own clique Mar 03 08:47:24 spam Mar 03 08:47:40 it was anti-social but it wasn't loner stuff Mar 03 08:48:04 Malware makes you visit websites, discover online-communities to erradicate the issue Mar 03 08:48:14 Nobody gets together to show off their spam Mar 03 08:48:20 I'm thinking more the effect it has that casual internet users can never know what to trust Mar 03 08:48:25 There are no spam-boards, where spammers give each other tips and tricks Mar 03 08:48:43 o_O Mar 03 08:48:47 crashanddie, spamusement.com Mar 03 08:48:48 are you trolling? Mar 03 08:48:56 some malware also claims to be virus/spyware scanners that find loads of crap to try and get money out of you Mar 03 08:49:04 lucent: who are you asking? Mar 03 08:49:06 there are however plenty enough of corporate interest to backup spam Mar 03 08:49:14 spam creators have their own exclusive club of message boards for techniques Mar 03 08:49:16 auenf, and that's exactly what I spent the last couple hours digging off my dad's computer ... Mar 03 08:49:21 it's the opposite of what you said now Mar 03 08:49:38 johnx, malwarebytes is your friend Mar 03 08:49:47 as is the bleepingcomputer site Mar 03 08:50:10 johnx, which name did it go by this time? Mar 03 08:50:14 auenf, the thing actually hooked into the windows .exe loader, preventing malwarebytes from loading Mar 03 08:50:16 lucent: oh really? Never came across one. However often came across "virus author" boards (well, more sk than anything else, come to think of it) Mar 03 08:50:20 lucent: my bad then Mar 03 08:50:26 some of them are full of typo's ;) Mar 03 08:50:31 auenf, it's the new(ish) "antivirus 2010 XP" Mar 03 08:51:05 lucent: I would never have thought that spammers (who inherently are trying to sell crap, thus don't like competition) would exchange tips and provide how-tos Mar 03 08:51:09 johnx, yea, blocks exe's and similar from loading (not .com) and a proxy so if you surf anywhere, you goto the 'scanners' results only Mar 03 08:51:13 crashanddie: there's only illegal and grey-market attempts at monetizing (what I refer to as "old school") virus writing plans Mar 03 08:51:33 crashanddie: there's implicitly legal (Thanks CAN-SPAM act!) efforts to make a buck off spam Mar 03 08:51:40 I mean, follow the money is what I'm saying here. Mar 03 08:51:44 auenf, yeah, and I'll be the first to admit, dealing with windows viruses and malware is not my specialty Mar 03 08:51:56 in this case, command.com was my friend :D Mar 03 08:52:02 http://www.bleepingcomputer.com/virus-removal/remove-antivirus-2010 Mar 03 08:52:11 it is a long standing known fact that virus writers are being financed by the anti-viiri companies Mar 03 08:52:27 is it? Mar 03 08:52:28 tybollt: I've seen proof of this too Mar 03 08:53:00 anyway, time for me to go out... Mar 03 08:53:05 lucent: not surprising Mar 03 08:53:19 I wouldn't totally discount it, but I have a feeling it's through a million layers of abstraction (aka money laundering) Mar 03 08:53:25 'later auenf Mar 03 08:53:30 johnx: of course Mar 03 08:53:38 lucent: any verifiable sources for that claim? And I am not speaking about some chinese AV shops Mar 03 08:53:41 virus writer groups back-in-the-day where 3 of the dozen core writers end up in jail, one or two suddenly have indemity and new jobs at security firms that suddenly acquire anti-virus programming shops Mar 03 08:53:49 johnx: also number accounts in switzerland Mar 03 08:54:38 I long for the mid-90's when viruses were 1) pranks or 2) movie plots Mar 03 08:54:41 edheldil: I've heard about this from some folks I know personally that used to be in the "scene", that's not exactly verifiable info though Mar 03 08:55:11 edheldil: I've also seen articles in print which I don't have the motivation to go find for you, but I think they're not difficult to find if you are that curious Mar 03 08:55:25 anyway Mar 03 08:55:35 I think that, human personality being what it is, there's enough coders writing virii for free Mar 03 08:55:42 launching these theories makes people call you "tinfoil-hat" Mar 03 08:55:43 so... Mar 03 08:56:36 botnets are the way virus writers earn nowadays Mar 03 08:56:50 the overwhelming majority (in my observation and friendship with said folks) is that virus writers do it for a psychological need to be a more clever bastard than anyone has ever been before them. Mar 03 08:56:54 very few viruses are satisfied with an ambulance running across the screen like in the old days Mar 03 08:57:11 you need to build a botnet and start selling it for ddos attacks and spamming Mar 03 08:57:21 ...and they accomplish that without ever releasing their virus to the wild, for the most part. Mar 03 08:57:36 the botnet concept has really changed the scene Mar 03 08:57:56 lucent: I doubt that. That would not give the satisfaction that it REally Works (tm) Mar 03 08:58:12 edheldil: doesn't have to work, just needs to be more clever than anything else out there. Mar 03 08:58:21 botnets are different thing, of course :) Mar 03 08:58:29 it's not really Mar 03 08:58:41 it's all based on how easily exploitable windows is Mar 03 08:58:45 botnet brought corporate interest Mar 03 08:59:14 exactly Mar 03 08:59:35 they are real weapons of mass destruction Mar 03 08:59:54 tybollt, nah, more based on how easily exploitable humans are Mar 03 09:00:22 tybollt: if I may counter-point, I'm in the camp of thinking as johnx says, windows is !@#$ irrelevent Mar 03 09:00:41 I agree entirely Mar 03 09:00:45 in fact I look at windows as a hinderance on the spread of effective malware Mar 03 09:01:38 lucent: nah, they are a nice monoculture waiting to be swept with one bug. Mar 03 09:01:51 no objections there ;) Mar 03 09:01:56 enhanced with the admin privs most users have Mar 03 09:02:14 though really those aren't necessary Mar 03 09:02:54 no, but help to hide the malware in computer Mar 03 09:03:00 the most common one I've seen lately is the "fake AV" deal, where all it needs to do is social engineer you into giving away your credit card. no admin privileges needed there Mar 03 09:03:37 so it runs a systray applet and writes to HKEY_CURRENT_USER to put a hook in preventing .exe's it doesn't like from running Mar 03 09:03:44 they also install keyloggers etc., though Mar 03 09:04:12 pretty sure that part of the registry doesn't need admin privileges... (though I'm honestly [blessedly] not an expert on Windows) Mar 03 09:04:17 is not it what normal AVs do as well? :-) Mar 03 09:04:29 heh. true enough Mar 03 09:05:22 johnx: I used to write from Win32 API calls and stuff, which bafflingly are callable from within Microsoft Excel's macro editor... Mar 03 09:05:31 the thing that depresses me is that the most innocent and trusting people are the ones who need to become paranoid and constantly doubt themselves Mar 03 09:05:44 johnx: write NOPs to the password check routine insta-admin Mar 03 09:05:54 from visual basic script! Mar 03 09:06:20 I wouldn't be surprised if my dad had gotten this from a document sent to him by a colleague Mar 03 09:06:32 I mean you can do anything. It's just like any OS out there, even Linux Mar 03 09:06:37 or Maemo Mar 03 09:07:15 and I really don't see any good solutions ... Mar 03 09:07:28 WINE is an interesting approach Mar 03 09:07:37 ? Mar 03 09:07:43 though I've seen devs joke about virus compatibility as a goal Mar 03 09:07:44 to getting windows viruses working on linux? :P Mar 03 09:08:25 yah it is only a joke that WINE will eventually be complete enough that the problem of malware will need to be addressed Mar 03 09:08:34 you are aware that windows apps running under linux can execute linux syscalls, right? Mar 03 09:10:25 edheldil: sure Mar 03 09:10:29 edheldil: with priviliedge ? Mar 03 09:11:00 with the privileges the wine is running Mar 03 09:11:13 the focus of the jest is on common made-for-windows native malware Mar 03 09:11:43 sooo, what's the answer here? how do we fix the world without taking the iphone approach? Mar 03 09:11:51 until made-for-WINE malware becomes commonplace, ... Mar 03 09:12:07 johnx: sign the jesus out of everything with crypto Mar 03 09:12:22 lucent, how does the end-user know who to trust? Mar 03 09:12:22 and I have heard about some "spam-everybody-in-addressbook" malware accidentally executed under wine years ago Mar 03 09:12:26 and publicly shame people when they suck and make mistakes Mar 03 09:12:40 johnx: tribunals! and executions Mar 03 09:12:52 the end users or the virus writers? Mar 03 09:13:05 nuclear weapons ;-) Mar 03 09:13:22 I recommend 3 days in the stocks for forwarding email including my address admidst hundreds of others in the CC field Mar 03 09:13:45 along with a twice-daily recietal of the origin of Blind Carbon Copy and its uses Mar 03 09:14:19 i would rather not get junk mail like that ;) Mar 03 09:15:01 so yeah, no good answers, huh? Mar 03 09:15:13 c'mon, where are my simple answers to complex questions? :D Mar 03 09:15:25 whats even worse is when dumbasses on that cc list start using reply-to-all for their inane discussions about the inane original email Mar 03 09:15:58 johnx: you suppose I am joking about the executions... Mar 03 09:16:41 lucent, I don't think that really solves my complaint about "malware makes innocent/trusting users into paranoids" Mar 03 09:17:40 johnx: malware is based on demand, believe it or not malware exists because the public at large believes it exists and expects it Mar 03 09:18:14 the existance of crap that gets in your way has become a "norm" for the average user that must grudgingly interact with their many hundred dollar machine Mar 03 09:18:24 I'd like to politely disagree Mar 03 09:18:31 if it works perfectly then they will find flaws that don't exist. Mar 03 09:18:41 I've seen this in action. What's your counter-point? Mar 03 09:18:55 only empirical evidence Mar 03 09:19:02 tybollt: having worked for an antivirus company, I must say that there is an overwhelming amount of viruses and malware done by bad guys already so that it makes no sense to 'finance' or 'encourage' those bad guys even theoretically Mar 03 09:19:27 malware exists because there is incentive in writing it. More now when the incentive is financial Mar 03 09:19:32 I admit, I've met some very "needy" users, who are never happy Mar 03 09:19:36 ssvb: only if the malware disables your competitor's product from operation ? Mar 03 09:19:51 but I don't think anyone wants this kind of uncertainty in their day-to-day computing experience Mar 03 09:20:44 johnx: loosely, I've held 30-40 clients in my past experience as a small business and home user computer technician Mar 03 09:21:03 not for any major firm like Geek Squad, this is me and my friends who are in business together Mar 03 09:22:28 and your clients asked how they could ensure a constant supply of malware? Mar 03 09:22:30 at least HALF (definitely more but I don't have an exact figure) expect that interaction with a computer will lead to some kind of failure that impedes their work flow, and they fail to mention it because "everyone has this kind of problem, right? virus?" Mar 03 09:23:00 Hey all Mar 03 09:23:02 that's a problem of expectations Mar 03 09:23:10 hey MOUD Mar 03 09:23:16 in fairness half of the "finding flaws that dont exist" (probably way more than half, in fact) is simply down to "i dont know how to use this properly so will assume it's broken" which is better than admitting their own limitations. Mar 03 09:23:21 lucent: this also does not stand ground, malware writers try to disable all the popular antiviruses in one way or another without discriminating anyone :) Mar 03 09:23:36 ssvb: :) Mar 03 09:23:44 lucent, people used to expect that cars would break down on a regular basis. heck, people used to be ok with taking months of enduring scurvy to cross the pacific Mar 03 09:23:52 I never used Voice SMS, is it possible on N900? If so, how do I do it? Mar 03 09:24:02 nid0: if the user interface is unintuitive, you could argue it IS broken :) Mar 03 09:24:12 MOUD: not familiar with voice SMS Mar 03 09:24:14 hello johnx Mar 03 09:24:25 pebkac isnt limited to unintuitive interfaces Mar 03 09:24:32 MOUD, is that like sending some kind of voice recording? Mar 03 09:24:32 lucent: no problem, maybe someone else is :) Mar 03 09:24:36 MOUD: is that multi-media SMS with sound? Mar 03 09:24:59 johnx,. lucent: I think so Mar 03 09:25:53 people send messages these days with voice recordings? Mar 03 09:25:54 then the answer is "probably it's not supported officially right now" on the N900 Mar 03 09:26:03 .....kind of like a phone call but slower? Mar 03 09:27:01 nid0: It can be sent from mobile to mobile, or email, or landline Mar 03 09:27:10 nid0: that is similar to my reaction Mar 03 09:27:26 well other than the "to email" bit, you know you can make phone calls from mobile to mobile, or landline, right? Mar 03 09:28:10 <_|Nix|_> timeless_mbp2: You around? Mar 03 09:28:27 if the content of your Voice SMS is going to be "DELIVER THE MONEY OR THE _____ DIES" Mar 03 09:28:37 I might suggest other methods. Mar 03 09:28:39 Here's a definition for voice sms (from a website): Mar 03 09:28:46 Voice SMS is, simply put, the ability to leave a voice message for someone without Mar 03 09:28:48 ringing their handset. It’s similar to SMS and MMS in that it involves one-way Mar 03 09:28:49 communication. It’s similar to voicemail in that a voice message is sent for someone Mar 03 09:28:51 to hear when they want to access it, but it’s different in that it’s an intentional voice Mar 03 09:28:53 message. Mar 03 09:28:57 sorry, didn't mean to. Mar 03 09:29:17 Hehe, someone else is finally getting the idea: http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/news/item/11221_The_application_store_dilema_o.php Mar 03 09:29:25 A catharsis of sorts=) Mar 03 09:29:35 well, if thats what you want to do as a workaround you could always record your clip and email it to the recipient Mar 03 09:29:40 MOUD, they're just giving you a hard time. The answer is that a 3rd party app called fmms is probably the closest thing we have. It's the only way to send MMS at all right now. Mar 03 09:29:44 or install fmms and use that, but it's in devel Mar 03 09:30:22 I heard that fmms can only send images but I'll give a try Mar 03 09:30:26 moo johnx Mar 03 09:30:33 m00f RST38h Mar 03 09:30:43 interesting article. saw it on planet but skipped it over Mar 03 09:30:44 * johnx reads Mar 03 09:30:51 If you’re an Android dev and you have an app in the Market with at least 3.5 stars across 5,000 downloads, Google will soon be sending out a new phone as part of its “Device Seeding Program.” Mar 03 09:31:02 nid0: I want to try from my mobile to a landline Mar 03 09:31:08 MOUD: similar function can be had by using Google Voice linked to your mobile number Mar 03 09:31:16 there are landlines that can receive mms's? Mar 03 09:31:36 my landline phone can send/receive texts, but I wouldnt have thought any would be complex enough to process mms's.. Mar 03 09:31:42 johnx: This stuff has been known since Handango times Mar 03 09:32:02 ah, the palm days :) Mar 03 09:32:04 lucent: yes, I just read that while googling. I'll try later with a friend of mine, both of us have n900 Mar 03 09:32:06 johnx: So, not sure why so many people bought into all the hype, for so long Mar 03 09:32:13 RST38h, all that's old is new again :) Mar 03 09:32:50 MOUD: wish I could comment by experience - my mobile 'net connection is only 2.5G (EDGE) Mar 03 09:32:58 no 3G for Jackson WY Mar 03 09:33:26 iPod users love to brag about their 3G with AT&T Mar 03 09:33:51 ipod now has a 3G radio??? Mar 03 09:34:01 whatever it's called, iPhone Mar 03 09:34:07 lucent: no problem. I also heard that Voice SMS is somewhat cheaper than MMS (depending where you live) so I wanted to give a try. Mar 03 09:34:08 tybollt, yup. they call it the "iphone" but it'll never take off. trust me Mar 03 09:34:20 I suffer from that use of the first big concept to label all concepts thereafter Mar 03 09:35:49 then you should be calling it the MPman :D Mar 03 09:37:16 johnx: then surely you ought to be calling it "the newton" :) Mar 03 09:39:41 or windows for pen computers? :) Mar 03 09:40:00 s/ters/ting/ Mar 03 09:40:00 johnx meant: or windows for pen computing? :) Mar 03 09:48:52 does the n900 support RNDIS? Mar 03 09:49:07 what's that? Mar 03 09:49:08 yes, g_ether Mar 03 09:50:00 * mgedmin idly remarks that g_ether.ko doesn't exist on a N900, but g_nokia.ko provides USB network connectivity Mar 03 10:12:50 Heya maemo Mar 03 10:13:57 IS there a linux desktop way of installing maps to the map cache? Mar 03 10:14:10 jaffa had a guide? Mar 03 10:14:12 lo wazd_e63 Mar 03 10:14:32 I'll havea look. Mar 03 10:15:50 Ah, perfect, thanks Stskeeps :) Mar 03 10:20:26 Helloall! Mar 03 10:21:05 VectorMine 1.0.5 is waiting yout Mar 03 10:21:13 your vote in extras-testing Mar 03 10:21:25 What does it do? :P Mar 03 10:22:16 fun asteroids style game Mar 03 10:22:34 http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_non-free_armel/vectormine/1.0.5-1/ Mar 03 10:23:07 alterego_ : it s a clone of MineStorm for Vet Mar 03 10:23:11 alterego_ : it s a clone of MineStorm for Vectrex Mar 03 10:23:17 hi people i need a help. i want to create a *.sh tah run this command line ""root Mar 03 10:23:38 Khertan: what did you change? Mar 03 10:23:56 fix icon bug Mar 03 10:24:00 add sound off option Mar 03 10:24:11 and reduce sound of thruster Mar 03 10:24:19 hi people i need a help. i want to create a *.sh tah run this command line >> root cd /media/mmc1/ export http_proxy=10.128.201.76:80 wget -c -r link Mar 03 10:24:33 vector monitor game emulations never look quite like they should on LCD Mar 03 10:24:37 can you help me? Mar 03 10:24:41 * lucent notes that's an opinion only Mar 03 10:25:32 lucent : yep of course ... but VectorMine have color :) no need to put sticker on your n900 screen Mar 03 10:25:47 haha Mar 03 10:25:47 the high dpi on N900 makes it very close. you want brighter corners for overlap "d flickering? Mar 03 10:25:49 can you help me???? thanks Mar 03 10:26:22 lucent : yep i haven t add flickering option too Mar 03 10:26:43 hi people i need a help. i want to create a *.sh tah run this command line >> root cd /media/mmc1/ export http_proxy=10.128.201.76:80 wget -c -r link Mar 03 10:26:47 m33go: why use root? Mar 03 10:27:16 root? its the same without it Mar 03 10:27:30 but i need a sh script Mar 03 10:30:24 i havent used wget with http proxy, but just make the script executeable and take $1 or $@ for cmdline param Mar 03 10:30:54 example? Mar 03 10:31:17 make an example i dont know nothing bout sh Mar 03 10:31:29 wget -r as root sounds scary :) Mar 03 10:31:59 I found this video helpful to explain what MineStorm is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbGRkdHPqlc Mar 03 10:32:05 http://iki.fi/lindi/wgettrap.poc is an old proof-of-concept against wget -r Mar 03 10:34:05 people.... i just want to create a script that works like this cd /media/mmc1/ export http_proxy= #insert a valid proxy format PROXY:PORT and press enter Mar 03 10:35:00 people.... i just want to create a script that works like this cd /media/mmc1/ export http_proxy= #insert a valid proxy format PROXY:PORT and press enter... wget -c -r #insert a valid url link and press enter... no more Mar 03 10:35:15 wasnt there a way to specify detination dir with wget -o /media/mmcq/bla ? Mar 03 10:35:16 whats the problem? Mar 03 10:35:49 the problem is that i dont know sh script Mar 03 10:35:58 i think you want to look at && to seperate multiple commands m33go Mar 03 10:36:20 cd /foo && do_something Mar 03 10:36:49 i dont know nothing about sh scripts Mar 03 10:37:45 i dont know enough to give an error free line Mar 03 10:37:46 can u help me to create a sh file? Mar 03 10:37:47 sh script is easy... you already know the commands you want to run (cd, export, wget), put them into a file, voila, you got a sh script Mar 03 10:38:09 villager.... it doesnt work Mar 03 10:38:14 i did it Mar 03 10:38:23 did you make it executable? Mar 03 10:38:34 i made it like .sh Mar 03 10:38:58 actually executable might not work without the shebang... alternatively, you can start it by typing "sh yourscript.sh" Mar 03 10:38:58 chmod u+x script.sh Mar 03 10:38:59 when i digit ./name.sh it makes errors Mar 03 10:39:26 umm ok Mar 03 10:39:31 i'll try again Mar 03 10:39:46 and seperate commands with newlines or && Mar 03 10:39:46 "sh ./yourscript.sh" perhaps Mar 03 10:40:11 what can i use to make understand to choose a dir or not? Mar 03 10:40:31 a command line like if.... or.... then... Mar 03 10:41:00 there's one, but you probably need to login to a real linux to see the docs Mar 03 10:41:39 bleh. off 2 hospital - ttyl Mar 03 10:42:11 example.... #press 1 to download on MMC press 2 to downllad on MyDocs press 3 to make it custom... Mar 03 10:42:26 how can i make a command line like that? Mar 03 10:42:26 that is more advanced shell programming I guess Mar 03 10:43:22 it can be done but you have to learn a bunch of commands and how to use them together Mar 03 10:43:36 my god..... Mar 03 10:43:49 too hard to study? Mar 03 10:44:08 not really, but you might spend a few hours on it Mar 03 10:44:21 if you're a total newbie Mar 03 10:44:40 :) thanks a lot i'm a new new newbie Mar 03 10:44:47 very new hahahaha :D Mar 03 10:45:07 you might want to find examples Mar 03 10:45:23 but i'm scary about variables Mar 03 10:45:53 it's too hard Mar 03 10:46:03 i hate variables my god Mar 03 10:46:23 you probably won't be able to do it without variables Mar 03 10:46:51 variables aren't that hard anyway Mar 03 10:47:01 they're convenient Mar 03 10:48:02 i know. but i dont know how to calculate a range of bytes to allocate on it Mar 03 10:48:11 the user's response would probably go into a variable, then your if or case statements would check that variable Mar 03 10:48:13 this is too hard for me. Mar 03 10:48:40 this isn't C... you don't need to allocate a range of bytes for variables in sh Mar 03 10:49:08 really? Mar 03 10:49:10 :D Mar 03 10:51:02 thank u soo much Mar 03 10:51:08 have a nice day people Mar 03 10:51:13 thanks for helping me Mar 03 10:52:52 check out perl after bash :) Mar 03 11:10:58 anybody have a trick to switch IM accounts to "away" after some time? Mar 03 11:11:24 That would be nice. Mar 03 11:12:01 Or on second thought... You're always carrying the N900 around anyway, right? Mar 03 11:12:14 So technically you're not away :) Mar 03 11:12:42 at night i am away Mar 03 11:13:01 Oooh, I misnunderstood you then Mar 03 11:13:13 I thought you meant a timeout Mar 03 11:14:14 yea, something Mar 03 11:14:18 i dunno Mar 03 11:14:24 maybe also a combination Mar 03 11:14:24 stratagus post was removed from talk.maemo.org?? Mar 03 11:17:09 corecode: i had some idea about a daemon which does intelligent profile switching and xorAxAx started implementing it ... dwimd Mar 03 11:17:29 dwimd? Mar 03 11:17:35 check it out, it basically works iirc, had no time try yet Mar 03 11:17:38 http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_non-free_armel/vectormine/1.0.5-1/ <--- still require your vote ! Mar 03 11:17:38 the environment sensing gestalt optimizer Mar 03 11:17:45 its in extras-devel, corecode Mar 03 11:17:57 hi xorAxAx Mar 03 11:18:01 hi cehteh Mar 03 11:19:32 what is vectormine? Mar 03 11:20:22 game? Mar 03 11:20:26 bah Mar 03 11:20:28 hehe Mar 03 11:20:31 what's up with people and games Mar 03 11:20:40 yeah .. i want serious apps Mar 03 11:20:48 well .. emacs works :P Mar 03 11:21:27 app manager doesn't show down-pinned apps? Mar 03 11:21:29 meh. Mar 03 11:21:58 instead my todays hack is tagged dangerous, not useful -- pfft n00bs Mar 03 11:22:26 which hack Mar 03 11:22:26 todays hack? Mar 03 11:22:33 and where do you publish them Mar 03 11:23:03 and now, dwimd? Mar 03 11:23:06 how do i use it Mar 03 11:23:09 there is no man command Mar 03 11:23:19 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=46363 Mar 03 11:23:31 i admit its really a hack, but works Mar 03 11:24:15 Anyone used the debian chroot thingy? Mar 03 11:24:23 how do I get keyb working in lxde Mar 03 11:25:02 I guews the eternal loop isn't very good for battery Mar 03 11:25:27 why? Mar 03 11:25:28 It only loops once per dbus event Mar 03 11:25:35 once per captured event Mar 03 11:25:56 oh course dbus will itself process many events Mar 03 11:26:06 xorAxAx: any docs available? Mar 03 11:26:35 corecode: yes, the README file Mar 03 11:26:47 corecode: which is under /etc/dwimd Mar 03 11:26:55 cehteh: I'd like a noise. Mar 03 11:27:06 cehteh: an earth-shattering kaboom by preference. Mar 03 11:27:15 cehteh: but a plaintive beep would work too Mar 03 11:27:15 alternatively, you can read it here: http://hg.alexanderweb.de/dwimd-main/file/7d806ddfbaa9/README.txt Mar 03 11:27:31 And yes, I could trivially add that. Mar 03 11:27:37 SpeedEvil: i dont understand why there is no difference between annoying systems sounds and important things Mar 03 11:27:57 SpeedEvil: it beeps when you turn system sounds on Mar 03 11:28:00 in profile Mar 03 11:28:23 bit then it makes swooosh, wiiimp, brrrrzz, ggrlgl ... and such noises too Mar 03 11:28:29 i hate that Mar 03 11:30:55 hehe Mar 03 11:31:37 xorAxAx: do you also have a problem that the wifi doesn't automatically switch to eduroam? Mar 03 11:31:49 corecode: yes Mar 03 11:32:06 corecode: also it cannot switch because it needs a cert passphrase Mar 03 11:32:11 oh? Mar 03 11:32:14 but if i remove the passphrase, the cert is invalid Mar 03 11:32:16 i don't need that here Mar 03 11:32:17 (in my case) Mar 03 11:32:22 on_stand? Mar 03 11:32:24 haha Mar 03 11:32:42 cute! Mar 03 11:32:48 yeah, i like that rule :-) Mar 03 11:32:49 thanks, that's a clever thing Mar 03 11:32:50 presentation mode Mar 03 11:32:54 Hmm. Is there a way to change internet connectivity on N900 to sort of "on demand, but disable when no traffic"? Mar 03 11:33:12 why would you vote for silent at uni? Mar 03 11:33:14 So that it would connect automatically to check email, and whatnot, but would turn internet connection off afterwards. Mar 03 11:33:27 is there access to the proximity sensor? Mar 03 11:33:30 MiXu-: There's no such thing like "on demand" Mar 03 11:33:30 corecode: because there are lectures and meetings running Mar 03 11:33:44 corecode: i havent written a proximity sensor yet, no. but feel free :) Mar 03 11:33:59 DocScrutinizer: Hmm. That's a bit disappointing, since symbian phones can do it. Mar 03 11:34:09 vibration obviously only makes sense in the pocket Mar 03 11:34:10 And it has a significant effect on the battery life Mar 03 11:34:26 MiXu-: please read chan logs. We had that very topic 2 days ago (or 3) Mar 03 11:34:35 there is something in extras I think to turn that off Mar 03 11:34:42 DocScrutinizer: Ok, thanks Mar 03 11:34:53 xorAxAx: you should package the sample config Mar 03 11:35:09 xorAxAx: seems you're not using gps for location sensing Mar 03 11:35:20 MiXu-: bottom line: Even when we'd implement such nonsense, it had no effect whatsoever on battery life Mar 03 11:35:24 the code supports gps but it needs too much energy, corecode Mar 03 11:35:29 yea Mar 03 11:35:32 that was my concern Mar 03 11:35:45 is it possible to use cell information only? Mar 03 11:35:56 yes, if you modify the code Mar 03 11:36:19 xorAxAx: how do you hack on the code? Mar 03 11:36:28 if you want to use dwimd, i suggest a hg clone Mar 03 11:36:42 will do, just what's the most efficient process Mar 03 11:36:42 http://hg.alexanderweb.de/dwimd-main/ Mar 03 11:36:57 hack on desktop, build package, load on phone? Mar 03 11:37:08 ssh into phone, hack on phone? Mar 03 11:37:36 hack on the desktop, commit push Mar 03 11:37:48 or hack on the phone, commit push Mar 03 11:37:58 or hack on the desktop, scp file Mar 03 11:38:20 DocScrutinizer: Active vs. inactive packet data has around 1mA difference if I recall right. Mar 03 11:38:24 sshfs even easier Mar 03 11:38:56 i mount the build dir of the sdk on the phone and then can try things directly Mar 03 11:39:23 yeah, that works as well Mar 03 11:39:27 there is also sbsh scratchboxshell, but i dont care sshfs is much easier Mar 03 11:39:42 DocScrutinizer: that depends. Mar 03 11:40:01 DocScrutinizer: with some cell networks and use-cases - the phone can be recamping quite often Mar 03 11:40:06 could you guys who worked with that already maybe document it in rough terms in the wiki? Mar 03 11:40:39 MiXu-: If you're talking about GPRS - you'll need to run a full DHCP registering for each time you crank up the "connectivity". So even if that 1mA figure is correct, it won't buy you anything, as the increased data traffic for DHCP will eat up all the savings Mar 03 11:40:49 no .. i work in my self-cooked way, bit raw like a good steak Mar 03 11:41:14 xorAxAx: auto-secure device could be nice too Mar 03 11:41:21 cehteh: that's good Mar 03 11:41:26 DocScrutinizer: Ok, that's a good point. I can accept that. :) Mar 03 11:41:28 i also plan to setup a chroot with the sdk on the device Mar 03 11:41:39 cehteh: any best practice is good to know Mar 03 11:41:40 SpeedEvil: recamping only accounts for GPRS if you do not keep any normal GSM connectivity during that Mar 03 11:41:44 corecode: yeah, based on location for example Mar 03 11:41:52 corecode: come to #dwimd if you are interested Mar 03 11:42:10 DocScrutinizer: maybe - it seems to recamp for me lots more often with an idle GPRS connection. Mar 03 11:42:19 DocScrutinizer: or maybe I'm measuring wrong Mar 03 11:42:35 So actually what would be needed is a change in the protocols :) Mar 03 11:42:57 Or static IP:s for mobile devices, or something. Mar 03 11:45:57 hehe we all want our own v6 ip on the n900 right? right! Mar 03 11:46:16 right! Mar 03 11:46:21 v8 Mar 03 11:46:31 ping -f when on vacation .. that will be fun Mar 03 11:47:01 static IP, combined with some sort of cryptokey would be good Mar 03 11:47:10 So the router only accepted signed packets Mar 03 11:47:19 i got my openvpn very well working now Mar 03 11:47:50 to home currently .. but considering to put another node my server as gateway Mar 03 11:47:59 that would allow such stunts Mar 03 11:48:21 cehteh: yeah - that works too. Mar 03 11:48:34 But the option to only allow signed packets would be lovely. Mar 03 11:48:46 thats ipsec :) Mar 03 11:48:59 And solve completely DDOS issues Mar 03 11:49:01 bit pita to setup isnt it Mar 03 11:49:08 nah it wont Mar 03 11:49:31 well - to the extent that the routers knowing your public key can drop packets mis-signed Mar 03 11:49:36 validating signatures costs, getting signatures would be all to simple Mar 03 11:49:46 routers cant handle that Mar 03 11:49:53 They should. Mar 03 11:50:09 And yes, I know there is probably no standard to do this. Mar 03 11:50:57 * cehteh would like some RST packet alike which is respected already by routers voluntary Mar 03 11:51:41 ? Mar 03 11:51:45 when i say "i dont want packets from X" in a ack packet which goes the route back, every router on that way should drop that route (make a negative entry for some time) Mar 03 11:51:49 ah Mar 03 11:52:00 that would sort-of help in some cases yes. Mar 03 11:52:12 not ddos though Mar 03 11:52:13 needs to be spoof-proof of course Mar 03 11:52:19 well - not the worst ddos Mar 03 11:52:38 there was someone over on ##linux a while back getting ddos'd by a quarter of a million hosts Mar 03 11:53:02 sending a http connection request every hour or so Mar 03 11:53:08 in theory even for massive ddos, with the objective to reduce the ddos considerably Mar 03 11:53:21 yeah - but you can't have long banlists Mar 03 11:53:29 if you can do that then ddosing becomes less interesting too and may die out Mar 03 11:54:09 yeah this should be voluntary routers only accept it as long they have resouces Mar 03 11:54:51 but since everyone suffers from ddos even the backbone providers already which are not primary target it might be appealing Mar 03 11:55:12 but there is no such technology yet and i am sure there are a lot things i didnt thought of Mar 03 11:55:38 packet signing would approach it from the other side. Mar 03 11:56:06 like recognizing legitimate and ddos traffic. If you just filter out, you create ddos on yourself Mar 03 11:57:11 packet signing will only work when you know your communication partner or some trusted authority which issues certificates Mar 03 11:57:39 yes. Mar 03 11:58:01 look at the crap ssl usability and what it costs to get certs and how many authorities you never heard of are preinstalled in your browser Mar 03 11:58:12 and how much usefule (cacert) are not there yet Mar 03 11:58:45 it will make private/community/peer2peer communiation much harder Mar 03 11:59:18 not everyone wants to buy a certificate and is then left behind Mar 03 11:59:19 In principle p2p could be done by you passing a key along with the search request Mar 03 11:59:40 and anonymity networks will also suffer Mar 03 11:59:56 imo that opens a can of worms Mar 03 12:00:06 since ddos botnets use zombie comps, packet signing would not help you much Mar 03 12:00:11 you're already passing the IP with the search request Mar 03 12:00:14 edheldil: sure it will. Mar 03 12:00:28 edheldil: it means that a random packet sent to your IP doesn't get tehre Mar 03 12:01:32 that would require that everybody and everything uses certs Mar 03 12:01:46 yes. Mar 03 12:03:38 and as soon as you can get to some device, you can send out worm disabling the cert check (unless TPM) Mar 03 12:05:51 I have a widget on my n900, called Conversations. It displays an envelope with 5 (8) and a "speech bouble" with 1 (49). What do these mean? I've opened sms inbox and email inbox and I can't find any unread messages. Mar 03 12:06:55 Hi guys Mar 03 12:09:20 Is it possible to repair .tmp_video.mp4 file? My N900 switched off during recording and I would like get a part of the record at least. Thank you Mar 03 12:11:19 Cervajz: Does mplayer play it? Mar 03 12:12:10 SpeedEvil: I dont't test it, because I am on Windows workstation right now. I will try it at home. But VLC doesn't. Mar 03 12:12:21 there's mplayer for windows Mar 03 12:12:24 why did it just turn off? out of battery or some other issue? Mar 03 12:12:34 Cervajz: is the file the right size? Mar 03 12:12:39 Funnyface: Yes, out of battery Mar 03 12:12:40 Cervajz: how large is it? Mar 03 12:12:52 SpeedEvil: It has 250 MB, I think it is ok Mar 03 12:12:53 Cervajz: also - file a bug. Mar 03 12:12:56 proper size Mar 03 12:13:15 Cervajz: you should not be left with a broken recording if it went down 'cleanly' Mar 03 12:13:27 ~bug Mar 03 12:13:29 well, bug is n: A son of a glitch. An error in design or programming in hardware or software. Effects range from cosmetic errors to system crash and loss of data. See also Feature. Mar 03 12:13:52 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtcSYPjJbgg Mar 03 12:13:54 err Mar 03 12:13:59 I've no idea what that is Mar 03 12:14:02 https://bugs.maemo.org/index.cgi Mar 03 12:14:04 I meant Mar 03 12:14:27 first one indicates you're a monty python fan. Mar 03 12:15:45 Ah. It was in another channel. I was suggesting a punishment for female pickpockets. After someone commented that you can't just punch them coz they're girls. Mar 03 12:15:58 Let me check mplayer in windows Mar 03 12:17:47 ok, why is maemo planet recycling 2 year old blogs? Mar 03 12:20:40 http://pastebin.com/vQqMnzyc Mar 03 12:20:58 So, mplayer doesn't replay this file :( Mar 03 12:21:40 Ok - does mplayer -forceindex do anything? Mar 03 12:22:23 hi, what do we have apout grep, looks like it is installed already, but when trying apt-get install grep, it wannts to remove numerous package. With existing /bin/grep the source configure issue is "checking for grep that handles long lines and -e... configure: error: no acceptable grep could be found in /bin:/usr/xpg4/bin:/usr/bin:/bin:/usr/xpg4/bin" - have you seen this? Mar 03 12:22:42 SpeedEvil: Unknown parameter Mar 03 12:24:14 -forceidx Mar 03 12:24:15 oops Mar 03 12:24:42 SpeedEvil: Doesn't that read the entire file first? Mar 03 12:24:54 mmarc__: there is gnu-grep in the repos. Mar 03 12:24:59 X-Fade: yes Mar 03 12:25:28 SpeedEvil: I've seen grep-gnu, but what repository is it from? Mar 03 12:25:49 It's in extras-testing at teh moment I think Mar 03 12:26:07 http://maemo.org/packages/view/grep-gnu/ Mar 03 12:26:09 SpeedEvil: Same error like "pastebin" Mar 03 12:26:52 Cervajz: is this a video you can easily share, or private? Mar 03 12:26:53 SpeedEvil: repository url is http://repository.maemo.org/extras ? Mar 03 12:26:59 People over on #mplayer may have more clues Mar 03 12:27:03 mmarc__: don't recall ATM Mar 03 12:27:20 pard me? Mar 03 12:27:22 Cervajz, copy file to desktop and diagnose from there. it is seemingly corrupt Mar 03 12:27:22 mmarc__: I don't think it's in extras - maybe extras-devel - or extras-testing Mar 03 12:27:33 mmarc__: The grep you are using probably comes from busybox. Mar 03 12:27:39 SpeedEvil: I can share it :) It is form concert of Imogen Heap Mar 03 12:27:41 from* Mar 03 12:27:46 yup, looks so Mar 03 12:27:58 Cervajz: I would also see if the same happens when you truncate a good file Mar 03 12:28:12 Cervajz: people from #mplayer may or may not have a clue Mar 03 12:28:14 on desktop check if file is filled with 0's Mar 03 12:28:23 that too Mar 03 12:28:24 SpeedEvil, this isnt mplayer fault Mar 03 12:28:32 lcuk: I'm not saying it is Mar 03 12:28:34 afaik its a corrupt video Cervajz is trying to use Mar 03 12:28:43 lcuk: I'm saying they may have a clue on rescuing corrupt videos. Mar 03 12:29:05 For example - sometimes you can recover streams by prepending or appending bits from files with similar encodings. Mar 03 12:29:16 It is not filled by 0 (in hexa view) Mar 03 12:29:38 There are several possibilities. Mar 03 12:30:11 mplayer/the viewer cannot play the file without the trailer or header filled in as the recorder would normally do at the end of recording. Mar 03 12:30:37 heh good old microsoft Mar 03 12:30:42 The file data has not been properly allocated, and the data you are seeing in the file isn't 'real' data - just garbage off teh disk. Mar 03 12:30:58 win7 rc1 auto shutdowns as of this month can be fooled by such complexity as winding the system's date back. Mar 03 12:31:35 Actually - that's only two Mar 03 12:31:58 SpeedEvil: I think, that the right one is first one Mar 03 12:32:22 possibly. Mar 03 12:32:31 I'd try first truncating the file. Mar 03 12:32:37 A known good file that is Mar 03 12:32:47 then running battery out again Mar 03 12:32:55 and see if you get the same reaction Mar 03 12:38:19 does gmail talk work for you? Mar 03 12:38:48 SpeedEvil: Okay, I'll do some experiments at home. Mar 03 12:38:51 Thank you Mar 03 12:39:20 good luck Mar 03 12:39:27 But submit a bug Mar 03 12:39:50 if the shutdown was clean - that's a bug - as the video recorder should have finished off the file. Mar 03 12:40:06 If the shutdown was not clean - that's also a bug - as it should have shutdown cleanly Mar 03 12:43:26 Morning, all Mar 03 12:44:47 Norming Mar 03 12:45:02 * Jaffa wonders if sjgadsby will accept jeremiah's nomination. Mar 03 12:46:51 http://www.greenpeace.org/international/campaigns/toxics/electronics/how-the-companies-line-up Mar 03 12:46:54 :) Mar 03 12:47:13 ass-hats. Mar 03 12:47:15 Largely. Mar 03 12:48:13 Anyone seen this one? http://lwn.net/SubscriberLink/376793/e005a4364bf44c5d/ .... "Apple's patent attack" Mar 03 12:49:36 You shouldn't repost subscriber links in a public forum. They're meant for sharing with individuals. Mar 03 12:49:55 derf: ahh ... didn't know Mar 03 12:50:14 derf: thx for the info! Mar 03 12:51:13 red: greenpeace counts promises to do better in the score Mar 03 12:51:20 which is bullshit Mar 03 12:53:04 And the toxic content of stuff is largely irrelevant in many cases. Mar 03 12:53:17 If you employ a worker making mobile phones. Mar 03 12:53:45 You have to count a portion of whole emissions of that worker against the phones. Mar 03 12:54:26 From the fertiliser used for their food, to their holiday on a plane. Mar 03 12:54:30 tbh the whole apple filing is as much bullshit as almost every other software patent spat Mar 03 12:56:24 SpeedEvil: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=553658#post553658 :P Mar 03 12:56:25 that's just basic american patent procedure Mar 03 12:56:39 they dig out every single obvious patent they have and throw them at the opponent Mar 03 12:56:44 and see what sticks Mar 03 12:56:50 then the opponent does the same Mar 03 12:56:59 lawyers get rich, nothing really happens Mar 03 12:57:10 yeah Mar 03 12:57:20 This is why we should forget about America Mar 03 12:57:22 there's always a settlement out of court in the end Mar 03 12:57:25 Move development to a more civilized country Mar 03 12:57:38 if however one of the parties haven't gone bancrupt by thern Mar 03 12:57:40 Funnyface: err - what? Mar 03 12:57:56 just some silly thread I found :P Mar 03 12:58:23 there really haven't been that many high profile patent losses Mar 03 12:58:24 thought maybe you'd like it as you have knowledge in both subjects.. :P Mar 03 12:58:32 sony's vibration patent is the only one that comes to my mind Mar 03 12:58:46 ? Mar 03 12:59:03 sony owns the dildo patent? :) Mar 03 12:59:04 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immersion_v._Sony Mar 03 12:59:05 oh and err I am in the wrong channel too.. Mar 03 12:59:07 solar charget 100mm*50mm will in desert sun - intercept about 7.5W of sunlight. About 15% best-case of that can be converted into electricity. So about 1W Mar 03 12:59:35 ps3 didn't have dualshock at first because, according to sony, "it didn't fit in the controller with sixaxis detection" Mar 03 12:59:42 the real reason was their patent dispute with immersion Mar 03 13:00:01 after that cleared - surprise - the vibration components suddenly fit inside the controller =) Mar 03 13:01:10 ok gmail video works for wifi Mar 03 13:01:53 http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras-testing_non-free_armel/vectormine/1.0.5-1/ <--- still require your vote ! Mar 03 13:02:09 Funnyface: 1W will charge the n900 - if not being used - in about 4h. Mar 03 13:02:21 Khertan: you may stop spamming that now... Mar 03 13:02:22 really Mar 03 13:02:22 Funnyface: that's in the desert sun. But it will also overheat it. Mar 03 13:02:32 it's getting annoying since I suppose it is just a script Mar 03 13:02:40 tybollt: yep ... really :) it was not post to the right windows Mar 03 13:02:46 no it s not a script Mar 03 13:02:52 oh well :) Mar 03 13:02:53 but a arrow up Mar 03 13:02:59 ctrl-c Mar 03 13:03:05 shift tab Mar 03 13:03:09 ctrl-v Mar 03 13:03:14 SpeedEvil: yes, I think it is pretty much a useless idea, + most of those people are probably clueless about the power you can expect from the panel, and how much the device uses :P Mar 03 13:03:29 but ... the ctrl was missing in the ctrl-shift-tab shortcut Mar 03 13:03:56 =) Mar 03 13:03:57 however when we get these thin film cells that can be integrated into clothes and such, maybe they'll sell coats with a charger plug in the pocket :D Mar 03 13:04:00 In more normal climates - it might charge if left all summer day Mar 03 13:04:05 so the result was posting it again ... instead of posting it to an other firefox tabs :) sorry for the noise Mar 03 13:05:36 Khertan: no harm done :) Mar 03 13:05:47 Khertan: Spammer ;) Mar 03 13:06:24 X-Fade: at least you haven't see my other project yet ... Mar 03 13:06:39 bluespam ... a proximity bluetooth spammer :) Mar 03 13:09:26 Khertan: HAH, that's you Mar 03 13:10:33 DocScrutinizer: i'm not the only one who done that ... but i ve one that use a n810 to spam :) Mar 03 13:13:23 hum talk.maemo.org ... is slow Mar 03 13:13:28 and doesn't answer ... Mar 03 13:13:53 next time it was when pr1.1 was available :) Mar 03 13:13:56 maybe a good sign Mar 03 13:15:06 probably the cleaning team accitentally hit one of the screens of the 770 server farm Mar 03 13:15:45 770 server farm? Mar 03 13:15:50 RST38h: i cant really find anything unworkable with nethack / vultures eye and N900 keyboard. don't recall all commands though. Mar 03 13:15:59 oh ? really there is more than one 770 ? Mar 03 13:16:05 Nokia N770 server farm? Mar 03 13:16:08 Uhm Mar 03 13:16:12 you mean they use 3 770 for hosting maemo ? Mar 03 13:16:40 :) Mar 03 13:16:52 nah they expanded it to 50 recently Mar 03 13:16:54 SpeedEvil: thanks, but how now can I switch from busybox's grep onto grep-gnu? configure seems still trying to use busybox's grep Mar 03 13:17:53 maemo.org speed has been okay for me at least lately Mar 03 13:19:42 stupid but required ... as other are stupid too Mar 03 13:19:52 oupss ... wrong windows Mar 03 13:20:15 again? Mar 03 13:20:35 * Khertan should clean is keyboard ... ctrl key isn't working all the time Mar 03 13:21:57 hi... can u help me? i need to create a key press value to change direcory on biash shell script Mar 03 13:22:22 biash? Mar 03 13:22:26 something like press 1 to mmc Mar 03 13:22:32 who you calling a biatch? Mar 03 13:22:35 bash sorry Mar 03 13:22:36 ;-) Mar 03 13:22:40 just kidding Mar 03 13:22:41 ... hum ... there is more and more Meego ... M33GO m33g0 m3eGo nick here Mar 03 13:22:42 funny Mar 03 13:23:19 Khertan: /nick meeto :) Mar 03 13:23:21 meego we hope bout it Mar 03 13:23:42 can u help me? Mar 03 13:24:17 can you elaborate on what you need to do? Mar 03 13:24:39 changing dir is accomplished by the "cd" command followed by a path Mar 03 13:25:25 i need a code script that pressing 1 works like cd /media/mmc1/ pressing 2 others... Mar 03 13:26:01 i know. but i have to create a valute with an echo. Mar 03 13:26:03 ah Mar 03 13:26:06 while readline Mar 03 13:26:11 _|Nix|_: sorry, i'm around now... Mar 03 13:26:21 is the typical bashism for that Meego Mar 03 13:26:40 an example? Mar 03 13:26:52 Meego: the bash man page has plenty IIRC Mar 03 13:26:57 or the googles Mar 03 13:27:34 please... i m creating a maemo application Mar 03 13:27:36 timeless_mbp2: what will it cost me to bribe an N900 nookla person to change "Yeah, right" to something else? :S Mar 03 13:28:04 tybollt: 'yeah, right' is only in my en_US locale... Mar 03 13:28:16 the en_GB locale uses something else Mar 03 13:28:27 if you don't like yeah, right, you can use en_GB :) Mar 03 13:28:39 timeless_mbp2: You want me to change to .fi, don't you? :P Mar 03 13:28:50 but fair enough then Mar 03 13:29:12 hi everybody! i followed the irc link on maemo.org. i'm interested in buying the n900 but i have questions for which i couldn't find answers, maybe some of you can help Mar 03 13:29:29 we can Mar 03 13:29:32 i ve it Mar 03 13:29:41 timeless_mbp2: when it boots back up ... will it be "Very well then, jolly ol chap"? Mar 03 13:29:47 i m chatting with it Mar 03 13:30:01 thanks. s, from what i gathered, it is quite possible that maego 6 / meego won't run on the n900, right? Mar 03 13:30:06 tybollt: sadly it's slightly more business like, i don't remember precisely Mar 03 13:30:15 do you really dislike yeah, right? Mar 03 13:30:22 do we have glib-2.0 on maemo? Mar 03 13:30:48 mmarc__: http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/find?string=glib.*debian/control ? Mar 03 13:30:52 maemo 5? i check Mar 03 13:30:56 chr83: no one really knows if it will run or not Mar 03 13:31:01 timeless_mbp2: I die a little inside everytime I see it. But I don't want to be a nerd and file a bug report just for you to go all WON'TFIX on me :):) Mar 03 13:31:17 mmarc__: http://mxr.maemo.org/fremantle/source/glib2.0/debian/changelog Mar 03 13:32:33 yes, what i wonder is this: if/when nokia stops updating the n900, is maemo open enough that the community / the devs can still fix bugs and add features, or is this only possible with nokia's blessing? Mar 03 13:32:38 we have on fremantle libglib2.0-0 Mar 03 13:33:08 chr83: my role is to help community do things in that area Mar 03 13:33:12 chr83: you don't mean fix features and add bugs? :) Mar 03 13:33:18 and blessing can mean a lot of things :) Mar 03 13:33:51 Stskeeps: :-) Mar 03 13:34:36 someone can help me with bash shell script? Mar 03 13:34:58 timeless_mbp2: thanks, the UK_en is way way less nausiating, although far from perfect. Mar 03 13:34:59 so it's possible? i'm worried having a no-longer officially supported device which still has bugs and missing features a year from now - and that the core of the maemo community will be focusing on meego and newer devices Mar 03 13:35:00 timeless_mbp2: thanks Mar 03 13:35:10 meego use a proper nickname like everybody else Mar 03 13:35:32 well that solves that problem Mar 03 13:35:42 awww =) Mar 03 13:35:49 chr83: roughly, you can update modest independently of nokia Mar 03 13:36:00 as long as you can get translation strings for new features Mar 03 13:36:05 and theres a metric tonne of code on gitorious now Mar 03 13:36:17 you can get firefox for mobile from mozilla.org Mar 03 13:36:22 all the desktop and gtk stuff and lots of things Mar 03 13:36:41 you can add additional codecs (or improved ones) for mafw via gstreamer Mar 03 13:36:59 roughly speaking, you have a debian derivative with a slightly strange base Mar 03 13:37:30 but if there's a third party with a decent mobile ui, you can probably get their app for your n900 and use it and rely on their maintenance cycle Mar 03 13:37:43 we just had a patch from community for tracker Mar 03 13:37:44 i heard the drivers are not open source is that true? Mar 03 13:37:49 chr83: no Mar 03 13:37:55 chr83: at least not for most Mar 03 13:37:55 chr83: all kernel modules are open source Mar 03 13:38:00 yes, that Mar 03 13:38:02 and kernel itself Mar 03 13:38:47 there is an exception to some userland bits which are closed (3d libs, battery management) but they aren't a problem if you aren't too idealistic and focus on the goal instead Mar 03 13:38:49 chr83: maemo has several blobs, but you can install other os like Mer Mar 03 13:39:15 and of course you can do whatever you want to replace the closed components whilst keeping the os Mar 03 13:39:23 those community patches - do they get incorporated into the official nokia updates or is there some community website with patches to download or something ? Mar 03 13:40:15 they occasionally get included Mar 03 13:40:36 chr83, i can confirm that community patches do get integrated when they are reported and documented and managed correctly and have a real effect (ie fixing real bugs) Mar 03 13:41:17 "i made a patch to replace os with android" probably wont get in ;) Mar 03 13:41:49 but something like "my album art is borked but i found out why" has a much better chance Mar 03 13:42:23 Stskeeps, didnt one of your patches get merged in recently Mar 03 13:42:29 great. one real world end-user example: it's possible that there will be skype videocalls with the front cam even after nokia stopped updateing7supporting the n900? Mar 03 13:42:31 you blogged about it Mar 03 13:42:59 when community start offering patches for skype then they can be looked at Mar 03 13:43:07 but last i heard there was no community of developers Mar 03 13:43:35 chr83: Skype is a wrong example as that is a closed source application. Mar 03 13:43:43 lcuk: yeah, but for some purposes my patches aren't community Mar 03 13:44:04 right Mar 03 13:44:08 not now i agree but wasnt that done before you were upgraded Mar 03 13:44:08 jesus, it's snowing a lot outside Mar 03 13:44:22 lcuk: think some may have Mar 03 13:44:32 configure: error: S-Lang library version 2.0 or newer not found Mar 03 13:44:32 slang1/slang1a seems to be not the right thing. Maybe we need slang2? Does it exist? Mar 03 13:44:39 chr83, there is also the case that all the upstream modifications that go in Mar 03 13:47:00 another speculation which oyu guys probably can make much better informed guesses about: if maemo6/meego really won't be supported on the n900 - do you think the majority of devs will move onto newer devices, leaving the n900 behind? Mar 03 13:47:52 At some point, devs move. Mar 03 13:48:00 Devs move with the users - prettymuch Mar 03 13:48:01 Stskeeps: Should I bug you this week? Mar 03 13:48:07 you know the n900 is quite expensive so i have to convince myself it's a good decision ;) Mar 03 13:48:11 developing for a platform with 0 users is boring. Mar 03 13:48:25 really, guys, what made us very insecure about our N900s are these vague responses Mar 03 13:48:37 go read my post Mar 03 13:48:38 :P Mar 03 13:48:40 and the FUD thread Mar 03 13:48:49 I consider this very negative... More feedback should be given to prospective devs/users Mar 03 13:49:06 People tend to follow the new things anyway. But that said, harmattan hardware is announced to use omap3 too. Mar 03 13:49:20 So there isn't a cpu generation change. Mar 03 13:49:27 it also depends on what kind of project the dev is working on, and how it can benefit from new hardware or platform Mar 03 13:49:33 chr83: it is a good buy ... expensive, yes ... but it's one of the best devices I've ever had ... I dropped Nokia after 7650 ... had two SE K700i and K800i .... but N900 is just awesome! Mar 03 13:50:11 Why can't we have definitive responses? It seems we're just being deceived. Go out and say: "Nor maemo 6 neiter Meego will run on N900. You'll have to buy a new device. Updates will stop at the end of the year." Mar 03 13:50:20 slang2 exists in maemo5 tree, but not clear, what repository it belongs to. Do you know? Mar 03 13:50:35 Or say "Yes, we'll help you run Maemo 6 on the N900 but it will be unofficial, since we can't guarantee the update" Mar 03 13:50:49 either way, please, don't say generic stuff like 'developers move with the users' Mar 03 13:51:19 chr83: the device could have parts which would be more open, to be idealistic .... but the platform itself seems to be open enough .... and which other platforms gives you the power to format your own phone into a non-bootable state, requiring reflashing? And you can even reflash it yourself .... Mar 03 13:51:24 Stskeeps: which post? Mar 03 13:51:46 ptl: Sorry - it's a fact. Mar 03 13:51:52 the platform is open, but it seems to not be following linus' kernel tree, either Mar 03 13:51:54 ptl: If users stop using devices - so will devs. Mar 03 13:51:58 Andrewfblack: ah, wasn't to you :) was about the worrying one Mar 03 13:52:08 ptl: Point to one thing with an active development community and no users. Mar 03 13:52:08 ptl: its the age old story of marketing vs engineering. the former trives on vagueness, the latter on exactness Mar 03 13:52:25 chr83: I don't think you'll regret getting an N900 .... it will always be a better device next week .... but I see my N900 to last for at least 18-24 more months :) Mar 03 13:52:28 Stskeeps: ok Mar 03 13:52:43 SpeedEvil: let's say I am tired of Nokia (and Moblin, and Meego, and Maemo personnel) non-responses... They don't help, and I'd rather know with anticipation if I should invest more in this platform or not. Mar 03 13:53:00 ptl: Look at the current state of mer Mar 03 13:53:11 ptl: uses linux-omap, pretty well known tree. Mar 03 13:53:17 http://www.maemonokian900.com/maemo-news/dual-booting-mer-on-nokia-n900/ Mar 03 13:53:23 and also, never talk about the upcoming product while the existing product its going to replace is in the shelfs, as that can kill the sales of the existing device Mar 03 13:53:48 At some point largescale support for the n900 will go away - as users migrate to other devices. Mar 03 13:53:55 X-Fade: that's not true, even the touchscreen driver was taken off the linux-omap tree after 2.6.29 from what I've read on the mailing lists Mar 03 13:54:00 t_s_o: that why they announced meego NOW? :):):) Mar 03 13:54:01 Largescale community support I mean. Mar 03 13:54:21 tybollt: thats a platform, not a hardware product Mar 03 13:54:30 ptl: it was re-introduced actually Mar 03 13:54:34 just not merged yet Mar 03 13:54:45 t_s_o: tell that to hundreds of thousands of N900 nerds out there... Mar 03 13:54:49 tybollt: and they have been clear that existing software will be able to run on meego Mar 03 13:55:45 * PR1.0, PR1.0.1 or PR1.1 on your N900 ---> not PR 1.1.1? Mar 03 13:55:45 tybollt: nerds should know the difference, the joes with a lust for bling however... Mar 03 13:56:30 in my opinion the official "we don't know" answer about meego on n900 means pretty much "no"... but i don't even have to have the newest os generation, i just don't want a device which won't be updated any more maybe a year from now and then still has bugs nad misses features - that's why i wonder how strong the community really is an dhow open the n900 really is... Mar 03 13:56:35 Remember now that development is standardizing on Qt, we can always recompile apps for Maemo 5 etc. Mar 03 13:57:11 chr83: once nokia stops you move to Mer Mar 03 13:57:14 chr83: No phone will ever be without bugs. And always missing the latest features. Mar 03 13:57:33 the "we dont know" is the only answer youll get until/unless nokia physically have a finalised working running copy of meego running on a production n900. even saying "maybe" would open massive tins of legal worms if they ended up not being able to deliver for any reason. Mar 03 13:57:53 of course. but take the iphone for example, it may be far from perfect, but you can still get the newest os version for the oldest over 2 yeaqr old device Mar 03 13:57:55 even if all official n900 updates stopped today, I'd still buy it again Mar 03 13:58:02 And nobody knows what MeeGo really is, so until then nobody can promise you anything. Mar 03 13:59:34 yeah i don't need a meego promise, i actually don't acre about the newest os or anything, i just want something which will not be forgotten in the 18 month timeframe Mar 03 13:59:48 chr83: so what will that 'newest os version' buy you? Mar 03 14:00:05 18 months - I think it's safe to say that there will be a community distribution worstcase. Mar 03 14:00:16 36 months - support on that will probably be dropping away. Mar 03 14:00:32 And much over that, you risk drivers dropping out of the kernel due to not being maintained. Mar 03 14:00:38 Are you liable for these schedules? :P Mar 03 14:00:47 Of course not. Mar 03 14:00:54 lol Mar 03 14:00:59 Based on prior experience with community hardware. Mar 03 14:01:06 we're gonna come at you with pitchforks if you're wrong. Mar 03 14:02:13 For $5000, I would attempt to make sure drivers stay in the mainline kernel for 5 years. Mar 03 14:02:23 Otherwise - ... Mar 03 14:02:58 docscrutinizer: i don't know and as i said i don't need the newest os generation, i just want to make sure that hings like better gmail support in the email client (i heard it's really slow if you have a lot of messages) will be available Mar 03 14:03:48 then you're better going with an iphone, crystal ball doesnt know whether nokia will rewrite the email client Mar 03 14:04:04 i alreday have a 3gs but i need a new toy ;) Mar 03 14:04:04 modest is opensource. Mar 03 14:04:17 You can add shit if you want, or convince people to. Mar 03 14:04:38 chr83: let me put it this way: I fnokia needs 12months or more to provide this functionality you're missing, and there was no way to work around that with FOSS apps, then you probably should return your device Mar 03 14:05:00 DocScrutinizer: You shouldn't even have bought it then. Mar 03 14:05:11 chr83: i use gmail/imap with a huge load of mails, it's pretty fast Mar 03 14:05:13 tbh though the point is more that adding enough to modest to make it anything better than modest effectively means rewriting it. Mar 03 14:05:15 DocScrutinizer: You should buy it if it does for you what you want it to do. Mar 03 14:05:43 X-Fade: there's no way to tell, other than buy and test ;-P Mar 03 14:05:53 sar3th: so that has been fixed? good :) Mar 03 14:06:16 i haven't tested with normal pop and not much mails though Mar 03 14:06:27 its pretty quick at handling imap folders for me as well, but its actual functionality's chronically limited Mar 03 14:06:46 and pop is still bugged until pr1.2 at least Mar 03 14:07:19 does anyone here know anything about 'gnome-mount' ? Mar 03 14:09:03 X-Fade: still for things like dialler not accepting USSD codes, or frontcam quality borked, I'd always be willing to give Nokia a chance to fix that. Not in 18 months though. That's been my rationale behind the advice to chr83 Mar 03 14:09:55 actually there's very few such basic flaws I'm aware of Mar 03 14:10:23 and seems Nokia is willing to fix them in reasonable timeframe Mar 03 14:11:17 well there's basically ussd codes, frontcam, ovi connectivity, and arguably mms Mar 03 14:11:26 very few? Mar 03 14:11:40 * timeless_mbp2 is confused Mar 03 14:12:33 ovi maps is too crude, no support for videocalls and mms, no LEAP on wifi, no dialpad shortcuts, no landscape mode, just to recall from memory Mar 03 14:12:35 they are not few Mar 03 14:13:05 at least admit they are more than a few. Mar 03 14:13:42 many of them are even Mar 03 14:13:51 many of them are even 'wontfix' bugs... like the LEAP support Mar 03 14:13:58 LEAP? Mar 03 14:14:09 ptl: and many users don't care about those Mar 03 14:14:12 no portrait mode is arguable at best, this is a device that's obviously designed to be used in landscape for anything other than talking on the phone, if that's a major problem for a user it can easily be chalked up to buying the wrong device. Mar 03 14:14:18 Yes, a wireless authentication protocol used by about 50% of big businesses. Mar 03 14:14:27 ptl: 'dialpad shortcuts'? Mar 03 14:14:32 oh oky Mar 03 14:14:37 you can stick a call X onto your home screen Mar 03 14:14:57 what do you mean 'no landscape mode'? Mar 03 14:15:00 oh another thing, is there samba / cifs client and server support available? ported from regular debian i guess? Mar 03 14:15:03 timeless_mbp2: I know... but that's not the same (I agree this one is a minor issue) Mar 03 14:15:07 99% of apps support landscape Mar 03 14:15:14 timeless_mbp2: you can't press the shortcut and start calling, you first have to select call or sms Mar 03 14:15:15 ptl: so wtf stops you from implementing this LEAP for your device? Mar 03 14:15:28 timeless_mbp2, i suspect he meant no portrait mode Mar 03 14:15:38 DocScrutinizer: it's a patented authentication scheme, I can't program by myself Mar 03 14:15:41 iirc Blocks is the only app that doesn't support landscape Mar 03 14:15:46 nid0: then he better spell it right Mar 03 14:15:49 nid0: yes, thanks for correcting me Mar 03 14:15:55 ptl: so probably can't Nokia Mar 03 14:16:16 portrait support is being slowly added to apps Mar 03 14:16:28 a bunch of other apps get portrait in 1.2 Mar 03 14:16:32 urho is writing the major release notes for that now Mar 03 14:16:40 I agree that system apps are getting portrair mode support Mar 03 14:16:40 video call is coming for gtalk in 1.2 Mar 03 14:16:57 mms is available from a third party Mar 03 14:17:00 (today) Mar 03 14:17:02 but wasn't the system itself supposed to facilitate it? Mar 03 14:17:09 but mms was never a promised feature Mar 03 14:17:13 1.2 is going out today? Mar 03 14:17:16 exactly Mar 03 14:17:18 and complaining about something we never promised is incredibly stupid Mar 03 14:17:24 the same applies to leap Mar 03 14:17:26 isn't video call for gtalk working already? Mar 03 14:17:27 I don't even use MMS Mar 03 14:17:39 ptl: most people don't waste time writing release notes 10 months in advance Mar 03 14:17:42 but I am acknowledging that it is a feature that users might want Mar 03 14:17:43 too much time for things to change Mar 03 14:17:50 so it should mean we're talking about <8 weeks :) Mar 03 14:17:57 (maybe <10 weeks?) Mar 03 14:18:12 ptl: might want is BS. It's not a promised feature Mar 03 14:18:19 users want ~the moon and the stars in the sky, i swear~ Mar 03 14:18:40 http://www.lyrics007.com/All-4-One%20Lyrics/I%20Swear%20Lyrics.html Mar 03 14:18:43 I still consider it a flaw Mar 03 14:18:51 no mms is a flaw Mar 03 14:18:58 no mms is not a flaw Mar 03 14:19:02 DocScrutinizer: there are some expectations you get even if the producer didn't promise, because they are present in old phones. MMS, videocall are some example Mar 03 14:19:06 *examples Mar 03 14:19:09 timeless_mbp2: it is Mar 03 14:19:10 the kernel we're using can't support mms properly Mar 03 14:19:20 timeless_mbp2: it was in the iphone it is in the n900. Mar 03 14:19:21 can't support? Mar 03 14:19:23 so trying to implement it would just have resulted in people complaining about it not working Mar 03 14:19:30 timeless_mbp2: fair enough Mar 03 14:19:31 mms? i find it hardly useful, since we have "share via service" on the n900 Mar 03 14:19:43 isn't MMS a application-space-feature? Mar 03 14:19:44 ptl: the mms network violates certain rules about ip numbering Mar 03 14:19:50 no Mar 03 14:19:56 timeless_mbp2: My point is I'm not a disgruntled kid talking about promises. :-) Mar 03 14:19:58 oh Mar 03 14:19:59 ptl: not entierly. it needs a separate network connection Mar 03 14:19:59 because it violates ip address routing Mar 03 14:20:09 ptl: and what timeless_mbp2 said Mar 03 14:20:23 which means you need a hacked networking stack to make it work properly Mar 03 14:20:28 symbian happens to have such a stack Mar 03 14:20:36 i'm not quite sure how apple does it Mar 03 14:21:02 (symbian uses iirc a deprecated portion of the ipv6 scheme for mms, which is a clever hack, but it's a hack) Mar 03 14:21:19 a later version of the linux kernel has some support for this disaster, fwiw Mar 03 14:21:25 but it still requires some interesting machinations Mar 03 14:21:37 because an app that's run as a user is supposed to inherit networking from its parent Mar 03 14:21:37 timeless_mbp2: now you're just showing off mate. You know the rest of us have no clue :P Mar 03 14:21:56 tybollt: i have a clue. Mar 03 14:21:59 bottom line, dont use mms if you can help it Mar 03 14:22:00 timeless, Symbian supports IP namespaces: different connections have different IP namespaces. Same thing is coming to Linux. Mar 03 14:22:01 tybollt: sadly i've listened to people describing the problem Mar 03 14:22:21 Terje1: they used a portion of the ipv6 stuff to do it iirc Mar 03 14:22:24 arachnist: mea culpa Mar 03 14:22:40 frals: you may not have a choice (receiving mms) Mar 03 14:22:44 Terje2: i'm not sure exactly how the linux stuff is going to be implemented Mar 03 14:23:05 but my impression is that the security portion makes the linux story sad Mar 03 14:23:44 tybollt: please bear in mind there's other phones out there which don't know to mss Mar 03 14:23:45 roughly it should mean that you have to create a daemon on the other side of the ip namespace stack so that your normal app started by a normal app can use the wrong ip namespace Mar 03 14:23:49 mms Mar 03 14:23:51 timeless, I disagree, they did it "the correct way". You don't need IPv6 hacks if you consider the network interface name to be part of the IP address. Same thing is going into Linux kernel. Mar 03 14:24:30 'network interface name to be part of the ip address'? Mar 03 14:24:33 * timeless_mbp2 sighs Mar 03 14:24:36 DocScrutinizer: those phones are then by the same standards: flawed Mar 03 14:24:41 trying to deal with Finglish is too complicated Mar 03 14:24:48 or Fingrish Mar 03 14:25:05 * timeless_mbp2 goes off to write a letter to Nokia House Mar 03 14:25:07 timeless, I guess end of discussion. Mar 03 14:25:14 Terje2: yep Mar 03 14:25:25 come back when you can express yourself :( Mar 03 14:25:28 tybollt: huh? how's a 8 year old 6210 flawed when it simply has no display or cam or whatever to handle multimedia content at all Mar 03 14:25:47 meh Mar 03 14:25:47 DocScrutinizer++ Mar 03 14:26:04 timeless, I did. Mar 03 14:26:07 tybollt: same applies for the 15bucks phone you buy at your local store next week Mar 03 14:26:20 * tybollt hope to $DEITY doc didn't just compare a 6210 to a N900... Mar 03 14:26:22 Terje2: _clearly_ Mar 03 14:26:25 and _understandably_ Mar 03 14:27:24 fwiw, a good example of Fingrish is here: http://conversations.nokia.com/2010/03/02/nokia-c5-unveiled/ Mar 03 14:27:33 > It also comes packing free walk and drive navigation courtesy of Ovi Maps and is ready for messaging with Nokia Messaging built in. Mar 03 14:27:50 tybollt: I just say nobody can expect an MMS sent to you is really making it to your display. So you always got an alternative to recieving MMS Mar 03 14:28:33 tybollt: how's that line? :) Mar 03 14:28:38 tybollt: it's by no means a mandatory feature Mar 03 14:30:14 Interestingly I noted an article from a couple of days pointing out that gsma forgot about phone calls being a mandatory feature of phones while putting together lte Mar 03 14:30:59 LOL Mar 03 14:31:15 what's "lte"? Mar 03 14:31:26 long term evolution Mar 03 14:31:27 4g Mar 03 14:31:30 basically Mar 03 14:31:31 long term evolution Mar 03 14:31:33 yeah, 4g Mar 03 14:31:35 next standard after UMTS Mar 03 14:31:44 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3GPP_Long_Term_Evolution Mar 03 14:31:49 it's like wimax but with worse advertising Mar 03 14:32:47 just need a phone with lte module, appearently the infrastructure is live where i live ;( Mar 03 14:33:45 frals: huh? you're living next to Siemens labs? or SE labs? Mar 03 14:34:32 its deployed in stockholm afaik Mar 03 14:34:47 wow, didn't know Mar 03 14:35:03 http://www.teliasonera.com/press/pressreleases/item.page?prs.itemId=463244 Mar 03 14:37:38 timeless_mbp2: who does this stuff? Can you locate this person and go slap them on the wrist? :) Mar 03 14:38:05 frals: incredible. thanks Mar 03 14:38:10 np Mar 03 14:38:20 hmm Mar 03 14:39:02 tybollt: i'm looking for another one now.. Mar 03 14:39:15 is new fw out yet? Mar 03 14:39:16 :P Mar 03 14:40:19 well thanks everybody for answering my questions :) Mar 03 14:40:28 frals: problem is - there are no LTE enabled phones :) Mar 03 14:41:47 fiferboy: Hey man Mar 03 14:41:59 Andrewfblack: Hi Mar 03 14:42:10 not even clear if the network itself is phone-enabled Mar 03 14:42:20 think its data only Mar 03 14:42:28 me too Mar 03 14:42:32 * Arif_ builds a Chinese quality phone with LTE and an analog TV tuner Mar 03 14:42:40 frals /doc: Isn't it the same thing Mar 03 14:42:42 Andrewfblack: Nothing turning up yet :( Mar 03 14:42:50 in LTE everything is packet based - even speach Mar 03 14:42:58 so there's potentially no difference Mar 03 14:43:01 tybollt: you need gateway, etc Mar 03 14:43:06 ah Mar 03 14:43:07 sure Mar 03 14:43:13 again Mar 03 14:43:27 get a phone on the market - I'm sure Telia'll fix the rest Mar 03 14:43:54 (speculation of course) Mar 03 14:44:22 Hi. I'm including libosso-abook-1.0/libosso-abook/osso-abook-contact.h in my app but getting erros on compile time (http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/9698/snapshot1sx.png). I've installed {glib,dbus,gconf}-dev packages and added them to pkg-config. any idea what am I doing wrong? Mar 03 14:44:23 for sure you can use SIP Mar 03 14:45:18 it's immanent part of LTE specs to have "external" service providers Mar 03 14:46:48 SIP would match there snuggly I guess Mar 03 14:47:35 when will they actually increase phonecall quality :P Mar 03 14:47:48 who?? Mar 03 14:48:09 whoever makes the standards Mar 03 14:48:19 Arif_: If *you* don't increase quality of your calls, nobody else will help out Mar 03 14:48:24 :-P Mar 03 14:48:34 I don't have anyone to call Mar 03 14:48:36 * Arif_ sobs Mar 03 14:49:08 I got the cheapest phone plan :D Mar 03 14:49:11 it's like 70 minutes Mar 03 14:49:45 I convinced most people that poking eachother on facebook/msn/skype/twitter is cheaper :) Mar 03 14:49:48 0900-CALL-ME-NOW!! Mar 03 14:50:30 you're some expensive person to call! Mar 03 14:50:36 also 911 / 112 always pleased to hear of you :-P Mar 03 14:50:52 what about 155 Mar 03 14:51:05 those are even for free usually, until you get another kind of bill Mar 03 14:51:28 hmm Mar 03 14:51:29 free Mar 03 14:51:30 * Arif_ like Mar 03 14:53:32 http://kuvaton.com/browse/14204/apple_products.jpg Mar 03 14:54:04 hey Mar 03 14:54:31 is there a procedure I should take for repackaging and porting an app for Maemo 5? Mar 03 14:54:49 optify! Mar 03 14:54:59 Like, I have not written the app itself - it's exult, a ultima VII engine - but I'd like to recompile and optify it for maemo 5 Mar 03 14:55:02 yes, yes, I know Mar 03 14:55:17 but should I try and upload it to maemo-devel? Mar 03 14:55:52 and btw, are there some general rules/advices on how to optify some app? Mar 03 14:55:55 do yourself and testers a huge favour, and optify it first Mar 03 14:56:06 besides editting hardcoded sections and editting the configure script Mar 03 14:56:13 ok Mar 03 14:56:55 pt1: echo auto > debian/optify Mar 03 14:58:33 * DocScrutinizer prays there'll be a sane way to deoptify automatically, once that incredible bullshit is fixed for good Mar 03 14:59:43 well if he extent of your package changes are to call maemo-optify in the package it should be trivial to build for another system Mar 03 14:59:52 however, if you made extra modifications Mar 03 14:59:59 * DocScrutinizer anticipates optification forever, as it would break old apps to migrate to a sane partitioning Mar 03 15:01:39 and you know my opinion about that, apt to the rescue Mar 03 15:01:44 ~optification Mar 03 15:01:46 somebody said optification was a botch to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the partitioning is FUBAR, or http://wiki.maemo.org/Free_up_rootfs_space Mar 03 15:01:56 guys, could you please help to clarify, how to add http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo5.0/ as repository? Mar 03 15:08:22 mmarc__, what for? should be there in App Manager by default... Mar 03 15:09:32 there is slang2 in maemo5, but I can't find it with apt-cache, that should mean something is not enought with repos screwed Mar 03 15:10:20 mmarc__: there isn't slang2 Mar 03 15:11:27 there is: http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo5.0/free/s/slang2/ Mar 03 15:11:52 The question is how to add this path to local repositories records. Mar 03 15:11:57 crap, yeah it's in the tools repo (libslang2) Mar 03 15:12:06 tools? Mar 03 15:12:57 http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/devtools/maemo5#Installation Mar 03 15:14:22 Is it possible to dual bood maemo with another OS on N900? Mar 03 15:14:36 after adding some repos my App manager is malfunctioning, showing empty catalogues list :( Mar 03 15:17:57 Zahra: yeah, Mer and Ubuntu 9.04, search on youtube and you'll see Mar 03 15:18:02 Anti-N900? Mar 03 15:18:27 ptl: & is it possible with neopwn too? Mar 03 15:18:51 neopwn? I don't know what's neopwn Mar 03 15:19:28 I googled for it... interesting concept Mar 03 15:19:46 lcuk: aiui maemo-optify should be a postinstall script task, and probably it should query some env to decide whether to optify or not Mar 03 15:20:37 DocScrutinizer, yeah look at latest commits Mar 03 15:20:51 theres integration work ongoin with the upstart guys to handle lots of cases Mar 03 15:21:04 :-)) Mar 03 15:50:36 any one got a solution to sync and backup my contacts on N900? Mar 03 15:52:56 trupheenix: what's the problem? I did successfully sync my contacts from my old phone. And I think backing up to the file also worked. Mar 03 15:53:20 Lynoure, i have a Nokia 3500 Classic which didn't sync with my N900. Mar 03 15:53:32 Lynoure, right now I just want to sync my N900 with Ovi Contacts Mar 03 15:53:43 Lynoure, so that I can keep an online backup Mar 03 15:53:43 Haven't tried with Ovi Mar 03 15:53:56 just with the E51 I used to have. Mar 03 15:53:56 Lynoure, which i can eventually use with every other phone that comes up Mar 03 15:55:13 So, unfortunately no further ideas on this from me. Mar 03 15:55:21 Lynoure, ok Mar 03 15:55:39 anyone know if N900 works with Ovi? Mar 03 15:57:27 are the maemo5 freemantle tools installed somewhere outside the root paths? Mar 03 15:58:28 hm, no Mar 03 16:02:03 hmmm i guess there is NO solution :) Mar 03 16:04:08 i love you nokia but this 5-6 hour battery life has to improve next time Mar 03 16:05:02 hi people. could help me? Mar 03 16:05:18 i need a help with the bash shell on maemo Mar 03 16:05:27 hi m33go any luck? Mar 03 16:06:02 try a simple command first. chdir to where you want Mar 03 16:06:58 :) hi,,, i need or a link or a help to create a script that says press one to /media/mmc1/ press 2 to /home/user/mydocs/ press 3 ecc eccc Mar 03 16:07:41 the pressing value must change the directory... it has to execute cd /ecc Mar 03 16:09:50 :) hi,,, i need or a link or a help to create a script that says press one to /media/mmc1/ press 2 to /home/user/mydocs/ press 3 ecc eccc by key pressing value helpppppppp Mar 03 16:11:32 m33go what u want to do? Mar 03 16:11:55 m33go: http://tldp.org/HOWTO/Bash-Prog-Intro-HOWTO.html though I don't think the default shell is bash the simple stuff should be the same Mar 03 16:12:40 http://www.faqs.org/docs/bashman/bashref_toc.html Mar 03 16:12:48 i want to create a keypressing value that works like cd /media/mmc/ ( pressing 1 ) ec Mar 03 16:13:35 i have the guide, i just need about that command! can i use more than one alias command? Mar 03 16:14:21 m33go why u writing a shell program for this? u would need to write an app for this. Mar 03 16:14:23 i have the guide, i just need about that command! can i use more than one alias command? Mar 03 16:14:26 of course, you can have aliases until you forget how much they actually are Mar 03 16:14:38 yes i'm writing an app Mar 03 16:14:54 i need about it Mar 03 16:15:07 m33go there is more to it than a shell command i guess... Mar 03 16:15:39 yes.... but i'm using the shell to test y app Mar 03 16:15:45 my app Mar 03 16:16:05 m33go please specify what u trying to do exactly Mar 03 16:16:07 thank u docsrutinizer Mar 03 16:16:12 m33go then i can sugges Mar 03 16:17:44 ummm soo... i have to see on the xterm >> PRESS 1 to save on MMC, Press 2 to save on Mydocs, Press 3 to see the infos Mar 03 16:18:02 m33go what u want to save? Mar 03 16:18:12 second n900 crash in 20 minutes Mar 03 16:18:22 ouch Mar 03 16:18:52 truphenix its a secret Mar 03 16:19:25 m33go: http://tldp.org/HOWTO/Bash-Prog-Intro-HOWTO-9.html#ss9.1 Mar 03 16:19:31 pupnik:what was it? Mar 03 16:19:35 i cant say what i've got to save. it 'll be avaiable on repos soon Mar 03 16:20:09 i cant recall how to check bootreason Mar 03 16:21:24 fishmemory is usually blank. nice results from my CT scan today though. bleeding in brain has cleared Mar 03 16:21:29 espeak `cat /proc/bootreason` Mar 03 16:21:53 m33go: see "read" (http://www.faqs.org/docs/bashman/bashref_55.html#SEC55) cmd, and "case" (http://www.faqs.org/docs/bashman/bashref_20.html#SEC20) construct Mar 03 16:21:57 cat /proc/bootreason Mar 03 16:21:57 sw_rst Mar 03 16:22:05 hmm oh dear Mar 03 16:22:29 maybe it is time for new wifi router Mar 03 16:22:53 that was me! Mar 03 16:23:31 thanks a lot bye people see you soon Mar 03 16:24:45 * DocScrutinizer sighs Mar 03 17:10:29 hello anyone can help me with maemo on N900 Mar 03 17:11:55 depends Mar 03 17:13:00 configure on maemo reports: "configure: error: cannot run C compiled programs". That's strange: why do we need to add --host=armel like for cross-compiling? Mar 03 17:13:53 gcc compiler is natively installed on N900 Mar 03 17:14:04 pronto Ibought the n900 recently in my area there's a sim service that i can call to know my credit calls and some other services by typing *XXX# now whenever i do that, it says wrong number and don't dial Mar 03 17:14:26 *XXX# is not working on N900 Mar 03 17:14:43 O_o i have no idea, check the forums/wiki Mar 03 17:14:53 http://maemo.org Mar 03 17:15:02 a-saint: look at ussd-widget Mar 03 17:15:26 SpeedEvil something i should download? Mar 03 17:18:12 now 2 more questions what's the sudo pass and is there an flv player i could download Mar 03 17:19:40 a-saint; open the file browser, click on the flv file and the built in media player will play it (for some reason it don't see flv files), or you could download kmplayer Mar 03 17:21:12 a-saint: if you installed the rootsh package, then it's "sudo gainroot" Mar 03 17:24:00 Trizt ok thanks but what about the ussd-widget us it something i should download? Mar 03 17:24:44 a-saint; I don't know, I haven't used it. But if it's not right, just uninstall it Mar 03 17:25:26 Trizt ok thanks for your support Mar 03 17:25:39 and for all others Mar 03 17:40:25 oh dear, changing my feed url flooded the planet :( Mar 03 17:47:56 http://www.theregister.co.uk/2003/04/14/stolen_mobile_rings_in_body/ Mar 03 17:48:11 feed url change is indeed one thing that was overlooked in early design Mar 03 17:52:27 http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2010/03/03/orange_backs_meego/ Mar 03 17:52:32 more on-topic Mar 03 17:52:46 Or less, I suppose. Mar 03 17:53:50 I was in the street today with my N900, I needed to unzip a file and couldn't do it. I was pretty disappointed with that. But it was probably a linuxfail more than anything Mar 03 17:54:07 apt-get install unzip Mar 03 17:54:18 I don't think I have that set up properly Mar 03 17:54:26 I couldn't get it via that Mar 03 18:10:07 huh? Mar 03 18:10:18 well, file manager support for zip would be nice Mar 03 18:10:35 there's a plugin for it afaik Mar 03 18:10:56 just unzips the file when you click on it Mar 03 18:12:04 failed at dual booting mer for the 5th time, pointer shows up, then the N900 shuts down :/ Mar 03 18:12:47 stay with maemo 5 Mar 03 18:12:48 :P Mar 03 18:13:58 Arif_, I have maemo 5 (obviously), but I really want to try mer Mar 03 18:14:13 hmm Mar 03 18:14:23 what are the advantages over M5? Mar 03 18:14:36 fully free software Mar 03 18:14:42 ... Mar 03 18:14:45 s/fully/mostly/ Mar 03 18:14:46 zaheerm meant: mostly free software Mar 03 18:14:46 something thats of real use Mar 03 18:14:48 :P Mar 03 18:14:48 no closed stuff, apart from the wifi drivers Mar 03 18:15:09 Arif_, it runs windows faster than my desktop Mar 03 18:15:16 lol Mar 03 18:15:18 lol Mar 03 18:15:38 you should stop using a 33Mhz Pentium desktop! Mar 03 18:15:56 maybe I should try mer too Mar 03 18:15:58 1.60GHz* Mar 03 18:16:03 the media player is a pos on M5 Mar 03 18:16:20 Arif_, just install a different media player Mar 03 18:16:40 I tried SiB and KMplayer Mar 03 18:16:42 Canola / Media Box / mplayer (playing songs through terminal is kind of weird though) Mar 03 18:16:57 KMPlayer is useful for streaming Mar 03 18:17:01 :D Mar 03 18:17:08 Canola I could try Mar 03 18:17:20 I like the default media player really Mar 03 18:17:41 I don't like that it crashes when I search :( Mar 03 18:17:48 apparently its fixed though Mar 03 18:17:53 I'm waiting for the new fw Mar 03 18:18:00 no crashes here Mar 03 18:18:07 how large is your col.? Mar 03 18:18:12 ditto, the much more important fix is upnp streaming not being borked any more Mar 03 18:18:24 oh, it happens with 3 songs too Mar 03 18:18:28 you just need the right tags :P Mar 03 18:19:08 lol, it's good for me Mar 03 18:19:27 Apparently media player is racist Mar 03 18:19:32 it doesn't like Turkish characters Mar 03 18:19:33 maemo doesn't boot in R&D mode, thinking about reflashing Mar 03 18:19:45 spoke too soon, the bubbles showed up Mar 03 18:19:55 spoke too soon again, it shut down on the boot video Mar 03 18:20:01 XD Mar 03 18:20:24 bubbles... Mar 03 18:20:28 boot video Mar 03 18:20:29 buttercup! Mar 03 18:20:33 **** Mar 03 18:20:55 IT'S THE POWERPUFF GIRLS! Mar 03 18:21:13 someone has a sense of humor atm :p Mar 03 18:21:24 or just bored Mar 03 18:21:50 umm Mar 03 18:22:04 what's this R&D flag force-power-key Mar 03 18:22:14 it's not in the wiki Mar 03 18:22:33 no-charging neither is this Mar 03 18:22:41 Arif_: I'm guessing one advantage of Mer is that the core software doesn't have to be years old like in maemo 5, which is based on a really old debian Mar 03 18:24:02 villager, what I was thinking of is that you don't have to wait for Nokia to release an update 6 months after you report a bug xD Mar 03 18:24:11 Arif_: that too Mar 03 18:24:13 lardman's ruling days are at an end! Mar 03 18:24:49 ukraine prime minister? Mar 03 18:25:05 nvm Mar 03 18:25:56 * A Linux installation on your PC. Mar 03 18:26:04 nothanks Mar 03 18:27:11 Arif_: presumably, on Mer, you can also more easily install stuff directly from debian-armel (or ubuntu-armel) Mar 03 18:27:29 does anyone know if it's possible to play an internet radio song through the n900 streamed out to an FM, thus giving my car internet radio? Mar 03 18:27:31 apparently I need a desktop linux Mar 03 18:27:38 no thanks :D Mar 03 18:27:44 newbie005, yes Mar 03 18:28:00 Arif_ out of the box or do I need soemthign special? Mar 03 18:28:09 out of the box Mar 03 18:28:13 wow Mar 03 18:28:18 (wow as usual) Mar 03 18:28:36 you can install fm-boost to boost the fmtx signal Mar 03 18:28:46 the range? Mar 03 18:28:52 might be needed in some cars, depending on the antenna location Mar 03 18:28:54 you might want to install the FM transmitter widget+fm boost Mar 03 18:28:56 yeah Mar 03 18:29:29 good to know Mar 03 18:30:04 Arif_, he only needs fm-boost to boost the signal Mar 03 18:30:16 thw widget is for turning it on/off + boosting the signal Mar 03 18:30:26 the better the car radio, the shorter the range of n900's transmitter Mar 03 18:30:38 it makes it easier to use though =} Mar 03 18:30:45 newbie005, if it works without fm-boost keep it that way, as it may drain your battery faster Mar 03 18:30:54 ShadowJK, err? Mar 03 18:31:17 I'm very happy with my n900 purchase, any news on the n910 ? Mar 03 18:31:19 because better radios are better shielded Mar 03 18:31:21 how better its isolated? :P Mar 03 18:31:53 villager: core software being old can be a plus. Mar 03 18:31:56 newbie005, I hope it makes tea... Mar 03 18:32:00 ShadowJK, oh Mar 03 18:32:02 ={ Mar 03 18:32:05 With exceptions - old software tends to use less RAM. Mar 03 18:32:05 SpeedEvil: well, I suppose... Mar 03 18:32:07 while crap radios are poorly shielded and n900's signal will go straight to radio instead of having to first exit car and then be picked up by the car's outside antenna Mar 03 18:33:23 newbie005, the FM transmitter even sends the artist/song details over RDS! :P Mar 03 18:33:53 SpeedEvil: nokia probably saved more ram by using busybox than by keeping the rest of the software old though Mar 03 18:34:09 The range is quite poor - by design. Legalities means it has to be. Mar 03 18:34:32 SpeedEvil, its better than the Chinese crap you can buy Mar 03 18:34:34 for some odd reason Mar 03 18:34:37 It's acceptable with fm-boost Mar 03 18:34:39 how do i sync my n900 with OVI Contacts and Calendar? Mar 03 18:34:39 http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_FM_Radio_Transmitter links to some real-world tests carried out by the UK Mar 03 18:34:55 trupheenix, you don't (or can't :)) Mar 03 18:34:55 Arif_: Or much, much worse - if the chinese stuff breaks limits. Mar 03 18:35:04 MohammadAG, not funny... Mar 03 18:35:14 trupheenix: some people are working on it Mar 03 18:35:15 trupheenix, seriously, you can't Mar 03 18:35:22 SpeedEvil, I'm looking for one of those... Mar 03 18:35:28 villager, hmmm can i help? Mar 03 18:35:29 Arif_: wow Mar 03 18:35:47 I bought a few from DX but they all suck =D Mar 03 18:35:55 trupheenix, I synced an N73 with ovi then transferred the data to the N900 Mar 03 18:35:56 Arif_: try attaching an antenna Mar 03 18:35:59 then I dumped ovi Mar 03 18:36:32 to the transmitter? :P Mar 03 18:36:43 Mar 03 18:36:47 villager: busybox saves RAM yes. one day I finally managed to reproduce a very rare bug only to notice that busybox's syslog truncates log lines longer than 255 characters and the interesting part of the bug I was hunting was conveniently not visible in log :) Mar 03 18:36:51 trupheenix: only if you're a developer I think... there's a Chen Congwu on the syncevolution mailing list that seems to be working on it, from what I can tell Mar 03 18:37:26 villager, ok Mar 03 18:38:10 trupheenix: currently you can sync n900 with many other services though... Mar 03 18:38:17 * Pillum wants new updates for his N900 Mar 03 18:38:21 villager, like? Mar 03 18:38:23 villager, how? Mar 03 18:38:31 villager, i tried Google Sync it failed Mar 03 18:38:46 trupheenix: myFunambol, ScheduleWorld... Mar 03 18:39:02 trupheenix: google sync as in contacts? Mar 03 18:40:01 villager, yea Mar 03 18:40:51 trupheenix: hmm, I thought that worked... (calendar is not available through google sync though) Mar 03 18:43:14 Oh, ok, I didn't have the devel packages enabled Mar 03 18:45:21 boo Mar 03 18:45:28 why doesn't QtIrrecco never work for me Mar 03 18:45:30 ;( Mar 03 18:47:50 because it is broken? Mar 03 18:48:23 someone fix it Mar 03 18:48:23 :P Mar 03 18:48:40 I added a remote and all the buttons but nothing happens when I poke them... Mar 03 18:49:02 Fix it yourself, why Mar 03 18:49:26 I don't know how to Mar 03 18:49:27 =} Mar 03 18:49:32 Well, learn Mar 03 18:49:40 I'm much better at complaining Mar 03 18:49:56 Yes, we can all see that Mar 03 18:51:13 i blacked out my office's radios today using my N900 :) Mar 03 18:51:22 it's pretty powerful Mar 03 18:52:21 what were you playing? Mar 03 18:52:22 ;D Mar 03 18:57:01 the shift gong Mar 03 18:58:12 the funny thing about this channel is that there is talk on every time of the day Mar 03 18:58:33 prolly due to the multiple timezone public Mar 03 18:58:58 ......and thenit went quiet :D Mar 03 19:00:36 Arif_ i was playing bollywood tracks :) Mar 03 19:00:42 hehe Mar 03 19:00:48 were people like...lolwut? Mar 03 19:00:53 Arif_, yea... Mar 03 19:01:00 Arif_, pretty much... Mar 03 19:01:22 Arif_, i didn't just play the tracks... i skipped through them to make a point :) Mar 03 19:01:40 :) Mar 03 19:01:44 hello. is it possible to build a home applet with clutter in maemo5? Mar 03 19:01:46 Arif_, but i don't know what use would i have for an FM transmitter. Mar 03 19:02:03 well Mar 03 19:02:07 the built in speakers suck Mar 03 19:02:15 so you can use the fm transmitter to actually listen to your music Mar 03 19:02:16 =} Mar 03 19:02:28 Arif_, u could also use bluetooth speakers. Mar 03 19:02:41 Arif_, the built in speakers are quite impressive. Mar 03 19:03:00 not when you had a N95 and 5800 before ;) Mar 03 19:03:12 or N810 Mar 03 19:03:19 no experience with that Mar 03 19:03:54 trupheenix, will you donate me some BT speakers? :D Mar 03 19:04:33 Arif_ there are so many out there on the market Mar 03 19:04:42 Arif_ VU makes pretty good ones. Mar 03 19:10:44 * Arif_ is planning on buying a new monitor first Mar 03 19:13:14 wow Mar 03 19:13:20 32" TVs are cheaper than monitors Mar 03 19:13:48 I paid 1300USD for mine (I have 2) over 2-3 years ago Mar 03 19:13:54 30" monitors Mar 03 19:14:05 well over the price of TV's atm Mar 03 19:14:18 but then again, those do not do 2560x1600 resolution :) Mar 03 19:14:47 30" is 800+ EUR currently Mar 03 19:14:54 32" TVs are 400-600 Mar 03 19:15:00 they're both 1080p Mar 03 19:15:04 lol Mar 03 19:17:06 Arif_, um, no they aren't. Mar 03 19:17:24 Arif_, most 32" TVs in the 400-600 range are 720p. Mar 03 19:18:01 Arif_, and 30" monitors are usually 2560 x 1600 Mar 03 19:18:07 So, no, they're not really comparable. Mar 03 19:18:14 the specs dont say so... Mar 03 19:18:40 http://store.apple.com/us/product/M9179LL/A Mar 03 19:18:42 the 2560x1600 ones are more expensive Mar 03 19:18:55 http://www.dell.com/content/topics/topic.aspx/global/products/monitors/topics/en/monitor_3007wfp?c=us&l=en Mar 03 19:18:59 Mar 03 19:19:00 Sony Bravia KDL-32EX500 Mar 03 19:19:01 * arachnist 'd love a 2560x1600 S-PVA 30" screen Mar 03 19:19:07 is €400 for example Mar 03 19:19:26 Ah, Euros. . . . Mar 03 19:19:29 asdf Mar 03 19:20:04 S-PVA? Mar 03 19:20:12 hmm Mar 03 19:20:16 you're right ont he resolution though Mar 03 19:20:22 most hare 2560x1600 Mar 03 19:20:39 cheapest one is €800 something though ;( Mar 03 19:21:06 sounds about right... still cheaper than my original 1300USD Mar 03 19:21:28 I'll give up a few pixels for half the price Mar 03 19:21:31 :) Mar 03 19:29:51 Arif_: cheap screens are tft tn. tft tn sucks ;? Mar 03 19:29:53 ;/ Mar 03 19:33:00 that's why the prices are so differnet maybe :( Mar 03 19:33:34 I just wish Samsung wouldn't insist on discontinuing all of their good displays. Mar 03 19:37:32 win 2 Mar 03 19:37:35 whoops Mar 03 19:37:41 =P Mar 03 19:37:58 * Arif_ installs Windows 2.0 on LiraNuna's N900 Mar 03 19:39:35 lol Mar 03 19:39:45 anyone got navit to run? Mar 03 19:43:48 well, it seems i killed everyone :P Mar 03 19:43:59 shh Mar 03 19:44:09 navigation is a touchy subject of the N900 owners Mar 03 19:44:11 :P Mar 03 19:44:15 Any1 used n900 as an Audio Device via bluetooth ? Mar 03 19:44:23 not yet matthew- Mar 03 19:44:37 Arif_: yeah, that's why i'm seeking alternatives to ovi maps Mar 03 19:44:42 :/ Mar 03 19:44:46 or however they wanna call it Mar 03 19:44:51 well it's got the option Mar 03 19:44:56 but it doesnt give me any sounds ;d Mar 03 19:44:57 lol Mar 03 19:45:00 Try Sygic! Mar 03 19:45:00 matthew-: want me to see if i can find my old bluetooth headset? Mar 03 19:45:05 it was released begin January! Mar 03 19:45:08 ....oh wait Mar 03 19:45:08 sar3th: no, i mean Mar 03 19:45:14 sar3th: i play something on my MAC Mar 03 19:45:20 and the sound comes from N900 Mar 03 19:45:25 sar3th: tried mapper? Mar 03 19:45:54 installing maps on navit is kinda cumbersome Mar 03 19:46:14 * Arif_ eyes matthew- if he's allright Mar 03 19:46:24 ptl: where to download that? :O Mar 03 19:46:46 real people generate their own navit maps with osm2navit :) Mar 03 19:47:13 normal people download maps made available by others! Mar 03 19:50:34 Something is wrong with my phone - UI becomes almost non-responsive for no apparent reason :-( and i cannot check why does it happen as i cannot even start xterm until it ends :-( Mar 03 19:50:38 hi Mar 03 19:51:32 I have a problem with my N900 connecting to my wireless router I use as a access point, I get the connection it accepts the IP adress, but I can't ping anything, only the router itself. A Laptop connected to the same router has no problems Mar 03 19:52:03 Arkenoi, CTRL+SHIFT+X? Mar 03 19:52:37 Imrahil: check your resolv.conf Mar 03 19:53:16 add line: nameserver Mar 03 19:53:23 arif: it takes forever to start :-( when i manage to run top at least there is nothing suspicious except high load average :-( Mar 03 19:53:59 aw Mar 03 19:54:07 in doubt, format =D Mar 03 19:54:21 lol Mar 03 19:54:42 meeeh Mar 03 19:54:54 i want qemu86 to work >:O Mar 03 19:55:05 the previous reason i tracked down was rss feed handler for MicroB, it increased browser CPU consumption to infinity Mar 03 19:55:17 but now i removed it Mar 03 19:57:04 uhm, sar3th: I think there was a misunderstanding, I can't even ping my regular router! Mar 03 19:57:16 not even DHCP works Mar 03 19:57:24 it's almost as if there is no route at all Mar 03 19:58:07 :E Mar 03 19:58:12 tried ifconfig? Mar 03 19:58:41 meh Mar 03 19:58:46 I need to stop dropping my phone so much Mar 03 19:59:04 Arif_: start throwing! use n900fly to set a new record Mar 03 19:59:18 if I throw it I won't be able to see the results :P Mar 03 19:59:28 well, ifconfig shows me the correct output as far as I can say Mar 03 19:59:53 Arif_, install x11vnc before you throw it Mar 03 20:00:04 good idea! Mar 03 20:00:10 lol Mar 03 20:00:56 start recording, in case something wrong happens after landing Mar 03 20:18:21 Arkenoi: that's why I always have a root xterm running :-P Mar 03 20:19:14 meh Mar 03 20:19:29 though, when not even top shows anything bad, I dunno either Mar 03 20:21:03 SpeedEvil: lol. I just thought about creating some wiki shit. Then I realized you did this in December Mar 03 20:21:40 Feel free to add bits I missed. Mar 03 20:23:41 I'll do that. For now I fixed a small oops Mar 03 20:24:22 for the big story I need good light, a beer, and a torx ;-P Mar 03 20:25:15 as that friggin schematics are missing component names for no sane rationale Mar 03 20:26:10 * DocScrutinizer hopes Nokia refrained from idiotic removal of chip name printings Mar 03 20:26:24 on the phy components Mar 03 20:26:57 chip names? Mar 03 20:27:06 Ah - from when chips were big enough to see unaided. Mar 03 20:27:19 lol Mar 03 20:27:43 yeah, add a loupe to the above listed set of tools Mar 03 20:29:57 duh, and a decent DVM. I don't buy the missing-ID Mar 03 20:51:55 anybody a clue why USB VBUS +5V power rail is called "**Video** Bus" (by TI at least) ? Mar 03 20:52:17 SpeedEvil: ^^^ Mar 03 20:56:21 I would guess acronym dictionary problems Mar 03 21:05:15 there are so many great apps and games that can be ported to N900... gnumeric, bos wars, exult, dia... hope in time they get on the repositories Mar 03 21:05:23 as soon as I get time for that, I'll try doing it myself. Mar 03 21:06:03 wow, nice to see so many users... okay, i am searching for a solution to compile a little c++ program, but also i can install gcc-base i do not understand how to compile code.... can you please give me an hint? Mar 03 21:06:36 also=although sorry Mar 03 21:10:31 I'm having some trouble installing the maemo SDK. I get a "Scratchbox login found but not executable by user" - I have already added my user to the sbox group and started a new terminal after doing so. Any ideas? Mar 03 21:12:25 does the "groups" command say your in that group? Mar 03 21:13:14 hmm actually it doesn't. Something must've went wrong using the script to add the user Mar 03 21:14:00 maybe you need to actually log out first Mar 03 21:16:45 maybe Mar 03 21:17:15 I did need that, thanks Mar 03 21:17:46 have fun compiling now :) Mar 03 21:18:07 heh, cheers Mar 03 21:18:24 maemo is really picky with its requirements =S Mar 03 21:18:44 * Arif_ puts PR1.2 in the middle of #maemo and hides Mar 03 21:21:03 Say i have a Java SWT application.... it should be able to pretty much run on the nokia n810 right away yeah? It will look like shit ofcourse, but it should be able to run? Mar 03 21:22:07 um Mar 03 21:22:21 what? Mar 03 21:22:23 :d Mar 03 21:22:39 are you aware that Nokia N810 comes with no java support? Mar 03 21:22:59 i'm not aware of that, no Mar 03 21:24:06 Is there Java available for the N810 ? Mar 03 21:24:06 Yes. Mar 03 21:24:13 from the N810 faq Mar 03 21:24:37 but i should read more specs before asking questions here, sorry Mar 03 21:24:57 well, "available" means different things to different people Mar 03 21:25:24 is it available in a easyily installable form for end-users? no Mar 03 21:26:00 it looks pretty straight forward to me Mar 03 21:26:09 but then again, i havent reached the point where i can actually try it yet Mar 03 21:26:14 i'll probably be surprised =P Mar 03 21:26:41 can a developer or poweruser obtain and install a java encironment on his own n810? the answer for that is more positive :) Mar 03 21:27:04 yey =D Mar 03 21:36:19 hm Mar 03 21:36:45 i must say, i'm impressed with support for bluetooth headphones in n900 Mar 03 21:43:17 arachnist, how exactly :P Mar 03 21:49:28 * n00bmonk3y waves Mar 03 21:50:07 * SpeedEvil particles. Mar 03 21:51:38 * Arif_ yawns Mar 03 21:54:58 Arif_: well... it works, as opposed windows pc last time i tried Mar 03 21:55:06 Arif_: and even avrcp works Mar 03 21:55:30 * Arif_ blinks Mar 03 21:55:36 find me a phone that doesn't do that ;P Mar 03 21:56:51 do what? Mar 03 21:57:20 http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=287 Mar 03 21:57:33 bluetooth headset+button controls :P Mar 03 21:57:47 * Arif_ waits for someone to post a chinese phone Mar 03 21:57:52 see above Mar 03 21:57:57 that'll work too Mar 03 21:57:58 :D Mar 03 21:58:05 does it have 3G? Mar 03 21:58:12 no. Mar 03 21:58:29 :( Mar 03 21:59:58 it's a bit pricey isn't it Mar 03 22:00:20 But it comes with source. Mar 03 22:00:57 the battery works pretty well though =P Mar 03 22:01:48 hmm, after reboot, hildon-home seems to have sort of hung... is using lots of cpu, and shows none of my widgets, though I can switch between desktops (the wallpaper moves)... anyone seen that? or know how to fix? Mar 03 22:02:24 reboot again? Mar 03 22:02:46 tried that Mar 03 22:03:03 guess another time can't hurt Mar 03 22:03:07 delete everything from the desktop? Mar 03 22:05:53 you cannot change username in maemo i guess? :P Mar 03 22:06:21 would be nice to change it to... well, something more personally than "user", even if it isn't the most important thing or something Mar 03 22:06:38 Arif_: would rather think of a better solution Mar 03 22:06:53 you may try to set up a second user account with the same uid .. and report how it works :) Mar 03 22:07:08 villager, it's that personalised? :P Mar 03 22:07:16 Arif_: sure Mar 03 22:07:38 So i'm an idiot. I simply cannot fathom how to get root on the Nokia N810. Any tips? Found some site telling me to install ssh-server and allowing root logins, but that doesn't help me much when i cant install ssh-server without root Mar 03 22:07:41 these widgets used to work, no reason they shouldn't continue to somehow Mar 03 22:08:31 hmm, perhaps it's omweather, could try removing that... if I can figure out where it's supposed to be without seeing any widgets Mar 03 22:09:21 nah, not even the X to delete it is showing up Mar 03 22:09:54 I got off stuff happening with widgets once. Mar 03 22:10:04 eventually Iu uninstalled and reinstalled them all, and it worked Mar 03 22:10:11 Also - try a sw update Mar 03 22:10:50 as in going to app manager to uninstall? Mar 03 22:11:10 yes Mar 03 22:11:19 hm Mar 03 22:11:24 i love the updater in maemo Mar 03 22:11:34 well, my sw is up-to-date, but I can try removing omweather Mar 03 22:11:49 * SpeedEvil hugs infobot. Mar 03 22:11:59 but I'm using widgets I probably can't uninstall, such as rss reader and calendar Mar 03 22:12:19 in my previous phone (P1i), i needed to set up an usb connection, wait for the firmware upgrade to proceed (could take hours), in maemo, it's like updating a normal app, and it goes really fast too (5min) Mar 03 22:13:32 hmm, app manager is really slow when hildon-home is eating all the cpu Mar 03 22:14:23 FredrIQ: most of the phones on the market can't do OTA upgrades Mar 03 22:14:31 i know. :p Mar 03 22:14:37 FredrIQ: i remember my old se k800i could, though Mar 03 22:14:52 hm, btw, about extras-devel, what is so "DON'T ACTIVATE IF YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU DO" with it? the worst thing that can happen is that you run out of space in root Mar 03 22:15:13 FredrIQ: which is a bad thing Mar 03 22:15:17 or it can kill you Mar 03 22:15:28 FredrIQ: n900 can have trouble booting when / is full Mar 03 22:15:37 all S60 phones from the last few years have OTA updating o.O Mar 03 22:15:57 hm, ok Mar 03 22:16:07 Arif_: winmo can't, iphone can't, android can't Mar 03 22:16:30 eyephone can't do anything without a cable ;( Mar 03 22:16:53 anyway, i'm off Mar 03 22:17:46 FredrIQ, if you want I couod upload an app to -devel that frees up more than 100 megs on rootfs Mar 03 22:17:56 lol Mar 03 22:18:11 "rm -rf *" Mar 03 22:18:14 ? Mar 03 22:18:19 heh Mar 03 22:18:29 sudo gainroot first. ;) Mar 03 22:18:37 FredrIQ, possibly it can brick your device. :) Mar 03 22:18:42 that'll make the program too big Mar 03 22:18:44 ;( Mar 03 22:18:57 but, rm -rf * will do nothing with the rootfs without gainroot Mar 03 22:19:14 yep, or a suid binary that does rm -rf / Mar 03 22:19:26 maybe it'll replace your bootloader with hello kitty pictures Mar 03 22:19:35 hmm, omweather wasn't it Mar 03 22:19:38 heh Mar 03 22:20:25 hm, how does easydebian work, does it boot an alternate os virtually or what? Mar 03 22:20:40 it's a chroot Mar 03 22:20:51 no idea, but it has a word processor that takes 7 hours to start up Mar 03 22:20:58 lol Mar 03 22:21:01 idd Mar 03 22:21:13 tried openoffice one time Mar 03 22:21:24 it took like 10 minutes just booting Mar 03 22:21:35 and maked the whole OS lag Mar 03 22:21:45 (yay my english) Mar 03 22:21:57 hi Mar 03 22:22:04 what is the state of qml in maemo ? Mar 03 22:22:07 * Arif_ wants quickoffice on Moomo Mar 03 22:22:13 I mean, I have an existing app with gtk Mar 03 22:22:17 quickoffice... Mar 03 22:22:21 and want to have it with qt... is QML a good way ? Mar 03 22:22:29 KOffice will work fine, i guess Mar 03 22:22:36 and have more features Mar 03 22:22:38 this Qt 4.5 and 4.6, is AT the _ONLY_ ABI being changed/broken ? Mar 03 22:22:40 dunno, it worked great on N95 Mar 03 22:23:05 and can some apps use Qt 4.5 and some Qt4.6 at the same time ? i.e. is there any shared data areas thats incompatible? Mar 03 22:24:17 anyway Mar 03 22:24:20 can Qt 4.5 be compiled and distributed in /opt (as an optional install) ? for the PR 1.2 release? Mar 03 22:24:49 Want to run my first compiled program with scratchbox. And I get this. "QGtkStyle cannot be used together with the GTK_Qt engine." Mar 03 22:25:09 if i plays with extras-devel, i guess i would just have to df -h sometimes so it doesn't get problematic near 100% Mar 03 22:25:58 wonder how I can remove widgets when the hildon-home doesn't show them in the desktop editor mode? Mar 03 22:26:03 lardman, muahaha! Mar 03 22:26:06 evening chaps Mar 03 22:26:07 We're free of your tyranny! Mar 03 22:26:11 hey GeneralAntilles Mar 03 22:26:20 * FredrIQ is going to change computer-->phone Mar 03 22:26:24 why's that? Have I left the front page?! Mar 03 22:26:28 7run shutdown.exe -s -t 0 Mar 03 22:26:35 yay my shift key Mar 03 22:26:48 bug #9351 Mar 03 22:26:50 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9351 Random members not so random Mar 03 22:27:03 damn! Mar 03 22:27:19 I was getting used to it ;) Mar 03 22:27:33 lol. Mar 03 22:27:49 A $100 donation to X-Fade's "I need a new suit" fund may further your ends, though. :P Mar 03 22:28:22 * SpeedEvil passes X-Fade the 34 of clubs. Mar 03 22:29:02 :) Mar 03 22:30:53 * lardman prepares to do battle with QImage and QPixmap Mar 03 22:33:23 Salut quelqun peut me dire ou il et le salon francais Mar 03 22:33:33 yay xchat Mar 03 22:33:48 Je ne sais pas si il y a un Mar 03 22:34:09 hm Mar 03 22:34:20 FIQ: yes, that was(n't) aimed at you ;) Mar 03 22:34:34 lardman tu parle francais ? Mar 03 22:34:41 un peu Mar 03 22:34:52 whoever that is the xchat port author, the nicklist has minor problems with big font size Mar 03 22:34:56 Ces as un tchat francophone ici Mar 03 22:34:57 ? Mar 03 22:35:24 (i prefer 20, easier to read for me) Mar 03 22:35:48 NarNia: Could you speak English? >_> Mar 03 22:36:10 Lumpio- Moi parler francais Mar 03 22:36:14 can i use clutter in maemo5? there is libclutter on the phone but no -dev Mar 03 22:36:23 NarNia: I cannot understand a word. Mar 03 22:36:37 Lumpio- quoi ? Mar 03 22:36:42 hi hi Mar 03 22:37:02 NarNia: English! Do you speak it! Mar 03 22:37:12 Lumpio- toi tes une sale merde comme tes pas francais tu comprend que dalle Mar 03 22:37:14 tg Mar 03 22:37:15 Lumpio-, this isn't Pulp Fiction. Mar 03 22:37:25 me? Mar 03 22:37:28 Mdr Mar 03 22:37:35 NarNia: Meeerde! Mar 03 22:37:36 rabble Mar 03 22:37:36 tg nan ta gule Mar 03 22:37:47 ENOPARSE Mar 03 22:37:50 *sigh* French people are probably the worst @refusing to learn English Mar 03 22:37:52 Lumpio- quoi Mar 03 22:37:56 tu me comprend , Mar 03 22:38:10 je tu non comprend Mar 03 22:38:11 si? Mar 03 22:38:12 what's the craic with catorise? I've installed it and it doesn't seem to have done anything.... Mar 03 22:38:15 BADE DE SALE RACE Mar 03 22:38:25 dregin, it should've rearranged your applications menu. Mar 03 22:38:26 allez vous faire enculer Mar 03 22:38:44 GeneralAntilles: I assumed as much. Everything's exactly the same as it was before :\ Mar 03 22:38:53 dregin, hum, I wonder. Mar 03 22:38:56 dregin, restart? Mar 03 22:39:00 sacre bleu! Mar 03 22:39:02 was thinking that myself Mar 03 22:39:11 dregin, also try installing something else. Mar 03 22:39:16 dregin, though I can't imagine what's up. Mar 03 22:39:24 k Mar 03 22:39:35 what shell comes with maemo by default? Mar 03 22:39:49 I'm looking for something similar to .zshrc/.bashrc to put alias' into... Mar 03 22:39:51 looks like the rss reader was the problem Mar 03 22:40:28 dregin, Busybox Mar 03 22:40:42 ah yus I noticed that when I launched the terminal Mar 03 22:40:44 dur :) Mar 03 22:41:07 dregin, bash may be available in the repos. Mar 03 22:41:14 dregin, not sure what the status is on Fremantle, though. Mar 03 22:41:28 I'm quite happy to use busybox if I can get some sort of config file Mar 03 22:41:36 .profile? Mar 03 22:41:42 hmmm Mar 03 22:41:57 never associated that with shell specific stuff Mar 03 22:42:16 dregin arsehole Mar 03 22:42:51 ... Mar 03 22:42:59 NarNia: ta 12 ans ou qoi? Mar 03 22:42:59 NarNia, unprovoked attacks are not appreciated. Mar 03 22:43:12 congerro a bah tes francais toi Mar 03 22:43:21 je comprend que dalle Mar 03 22:43:33 shit troll is shit Mar 03 22:44:06 Khertan tes francais ? Mar 03 22:44:22 congerro tes un francais ? Mar 03 22:44:23 NarNia: les apostrophes ne sont pas interdites sur ce channel, merci Mar 03 22:44:48 NarNia: et merci de parler anglais, le channel est anglais Mar 03 22:44:52 crashanddie In bah ces de la merde Mar 03 22:45:03 ya pas un salon francais Mar 03 22:45:05 stp Mar 03 22:45:29 I'll handle it in private Mar 03 22:46:04 crashanddie: good stuff, am reaching the end of my vast knowledge of French! :) Mar 03 22:46:08 crashanddie: and hi :) Mar 03 22:46:17 my IRC client makes a gunshot noise when you kick people and it always scares the shit out of me :) Mar 03 22:46:33 fnordianslip, I turned off all of the varied sound effects Adium tends to spit out. Mar 03 22:46:49 I'm using Colloquy on my mac Mar 03 22:47:13 I recommend the Adium beta for IRC Mar 03 22:47:23 faster and much less buggy than Colloquy Mar 03 22:47:27 hmm, why does QImage require input data to be 32bit aligned Mar 03 22:47:33 that's rather annyoying Mar 03 22:47:44 turning the sounds off might be a good idea, but it breaks the monotony to find myself hiding under the table occasionally Mar 03 22:47:50 yMous is a good group chat theme. Mar 03 22:47:53 Hehe Mar 03 22:48:19 I had to after too many damn Europeans woke me up highlighting me at 4 in the morning. ;) Mar 03 22:48:53 bah. only a lightweight would be asleep at 4am Mar 03 22:50:44 FYI, the guy doesn't know what Freenode is, just wanted to find a french channel to talk. He found Mar 03 22:50:58 ah fair enough Mar 03 22:51:01 #ubuntu-fr but that mustn't have lasted long, I told him to use alis Mar 03 22:51:02 * fnordianslip wishes he had the foresight to include an enumerated message type for "FFS, do something right for a change" in a network comms protocol for a distributed system Mar 03 22:51:19 anyway, late for work Mar 03 22:51:27 cu :) Mar 03 22:51:30 nite all, sweet dreams Mar 03 22:51:42 GeneralAntilles & GAN900: you plonker, I'll never get that fucking 40d Mar 03 22:52:07 crashanddie, that's because usuk. Mar 03 22:52:26 no, that's because you made me bid on an auction I didn't need in the first place Mar 03 22:52:32 I now I have neither the money, nor the camera Mar 03 22:52:37 Haha Mar 03 22:53:12 I reported the guy to ebay for not having a valid phone number in his profile, and the only thing I got back was a "Please complete this survey to tell us what you think of customer service" Mar 03 22:53:53 crashanddie, the waiting just makes the arrival so much sweeter. :D Mar 03 22:54:04 there won't be any arrival Mar 03 22:54:26 the guy didn't think he'd sell it so low, so now he ignores me and waits for me to cancel the tranaction Mar 03 22:54:40 or he found a dofus who bought it from him for twice the price Mar 03 22:54:44 what did you buy? Mar 03 22:54:50 camera Mar 03 22:54:53 canon 40d, body Mar 03 22:54:57 ok Mar 03 22:55:15 * GeneralAntilles contemplates making pasta for dinner Mar 03 22:55:32 get the roller out Mar 03 22:55:34 anyway, 5 minutes till workday starts, and I haven't gotten out of bed yet Mar 03 22:55:37 'later Mar 03 23:01:38 why is C++ so bloody picky about signedness? Mar 03 23:02:11 and what does this mean?: error: no matching function for call to 'QImage::fromData(const uchar*&, int, QImage::Format&)' Mar 03 23:08:40 w00000000000psicles Mar 03 23:08:51 * n00bmonk3y spammed extras-devel again :D Mar 03 23:09:06 lcuk awake? Mar 03 23:09:10 * n00bmonk3y prods lcuk Mar 03 23:10:24 lardman, i guess you are passing the wrong types in, or they aren't consts when they should be Mar 03 23:11:04 that *& business is confusing Mar 03 23:11:33 sorted now though thanks, last argument needed to be cast Mar 03 23:12:16 rapsys_: les fai te dictent une loi économique, c'est bien plus pervers. et je ne les vois pas trop s'élever quand on leur demande d'espionner leurs clients Mar 03 23:12:34 oops, wrong channel, sorry Mar 03 23:12:35 well, the error is suggesting that you are trying to pass in a reference to a pointer, but that no method is defined that accepts that set of actual parameters. dunno QT, though, so can't offer specific help Mar 03 23:13:02 reference to a pointer, hmm, I was passing a "const uchar *" Mar 03 23:13:37 what is a reference to a pointer for that matter? :) Mar 03 23:14:05 * n00bmonk3y blinks Mar 03 23:14:28 good question Mar 03 23:14:55 especially when it is a const too Mar 03 23:15:27 ah well, I just cast it to a const uchar * and it seemed happy, very odd Mar 03 23:15:28 is it an input or an output of the method? Mar 03 23:15:37 input to the method Mar 03 23:15:48 not a buffer to be filled, or similar Mar 03 23:15:57 filled buffer to be passed in Mar 03 23:16:30 oh, yeah, fromData suggests that. d'oh! Mar 03 23:16:46 :) Mar 03 23:17:03 I don;t think it likes my constness anyway Mar 03 23:17:12 const_cast ftw Mar 03 23:17:13 so I'll fill it pixel by pixel instead and hope that works Mar 03 23:17:29 HAIL ERIS Mar 03 23:17:55 indeedy. plenty of discord around me today Mar 03 23:18:29 * fnordianslip is glad i built ddate for my n900 Mar 03 23:21:01 now my n900 is equipped to tell me that: "Today is Boomtime,the 62nd day of Chaos in the YOLD 3176" Mar 03 23:21:54 for installing in scratchbox, i shoudl ./configure --prefix=/scratchbox, righto? Mar 03 23:22:10 sar3th: probably not Mar 03 23:22:36 sar3th: if you're installing from within sb, then just use the normal prefix as it sees its own fs Mar 03 23:22:40 most certainly not, probably Mar 03 23:33:33 fnordianslip: show it in a widget Mar 03 23:33:51 there's some program that shows the results of command in widgets Mar 03 23:34:07 ptl: DesktopCommandWidget ftw :) Mar 03 23:34:25 yes!! Mar 03 23:34:50 ptl, do ya want a copy of the ddate bin i built? Mar 03 23:34:54 the bad thing about ddate is that it is not internationalized Mar 03 23:35:05 lol Mar 03 23:35:05 well, at least it is not translated to my language Mar 03 23:35:23 fnordianslip: no... thanks, I might use it as an exercise for building things in scratchbox. :) Mar 03 23:35:28 what is boomtime in your language? Mar 03 23:35:54 anyone used QImage::setPixel before? Mar 03 23:36:22 Good question. My language is brazilian portuguese. I think I'd translate it as "hora do estouro" or "era do um". Mar 03 23:36:26 *"era do bum" Mar 03 23:36:51 it doesn't have the same kinda of ring to it :) Mar 03 23:37:01 lardman: so ./configure shoudl be enough? Mar 03 23:37:02 surely doesn't Mar 03 23:37:09 many things are fnord lost in translation. Mar 03 23:37:09 sar3th: yep Mar 03 23:37:12 thanks Mar 03 23:37:16 np Mar 03 23:37:47 i still have a hard time getting used to scratchbox Mar 03 23:38:04 there's an old saying that says "all your base are belong to us !!" and it has everything to do with this case. Mar 03 23:38:04 join the club! :) Mar 03 23:38:13 ptl, is there a translation of Principia Discordia document either? Mar 03 23:38:18 sar3th: scratchbox 1 or scratchbox 2? Mar 03 23:38:21 launch every zig for great justice Mar 03 23:38:27 i still have a hard time getting used to scratchbox and I have used it since the n770 came out Mar 03 23:38:33 fnordianslip: yes, but these times/dates are untranslated Mar 03 23:38:34 ptl: ... Mar 03 23:38:38 heck if i know Mar 03 23:38:54 Would anybody here mind to help me with the wiki ? Mar 03 23:39:19 sar3th: there are two completely different scratchboxes, and I confused them in the beginning. I could swear I was using scratchbox 2 but I was actually using Scratchbox 1. Mar 03 23:39:33 howtotell? Mar 03 23:40:04 well, they are completely different. But don't ask me to remember the differences, I just erased it from my memory, I guess. :P Mar 03 23:41:16 actually I never learned to use scratchbox 2, i just had a glimpse about its commands and then realized I was using sb 1. Mar 03 23:45:31 ptl: check this out. i was howling :) http://forums.devshed.com/database-management-46/ddate-discordian-date-problems-321852.html Mar 03 23:48:14 what kind of sick coder used the discordian calendar in a database Mar 03 23:48:34 lol Mar 03 23:48:42 I laughed at the bug report where someone said ddate should be moved because some users might have "more traditional values" Mar 03 23:48:46 What an idiot. Mar 03 23:49:16 :) Mar 03 23:49:26 mode #maemo +b Mar 03 23:49:29 woops Mar 03 23:49:50 crashanddie: does that mean we have to talk in binary now? Mar 03 23:50:00 that is pretty funny Mar 03 23:50:10 Has anyone used wpa_supplicant on n900 before? Mar 03 23:50:49 I can get it to connect to my home network, but I somehow don't seem to be able to actually make the phone use the interface Mar 03 23:51:36 Freenode seriously fails sometimes Mar 03 23:53:41 * n00bmonk3y nods Mar 03 23:54:57 wtf Mar 03 23:55:09 -ChanServ- You are not authorized to perform this operation. :( Mar 03 23:58:12 lols Mar 03 23:58:20 did you try and bend chanserv over again? ;) Mar 03 23:59:47 ~lart QImage for being really bloody crap Mar 03 23:59:47 * infobot takes a big bite out of QImage's jugular vein for being really bloody crap Mar 04 00:00:19 full of handy utility classes my arse Mar 04 00:01:14 :) Mar 04 00:02:19 its probably a bazillian times better than using MFC though Mar 04 00:02:36 no doubt, but would be faster to write this in asm Mar 04 00:03:23 my favourite instruction is EIEIO Mar 04 00:04:04 nothing to do with a farm ;) Mar 04 00:04:31 they must have had the song in mind Mar 04 00:05:19 the only thing i miss with the N900 is a N64 emulator Mar 04 00:05:37 else than that, awesome Mar 04 00:05:57 anyway Mar 04 00:06:03 So if noone uses wpa_supplicant, how do you guys connect to PEAP wireless networks? Mar 04 00:06:18 MHeiGB18030C-Medium Light 20 Mar 04 00:06:35 * timeless_mbp looks around Mar 04 00:10:42 * n00bmonk3y blinks Mar 04 00:10:51 hmm, what is up with the qt-maemo channel, tumbleweeds gallore Mar 04 00:14:49 no idea, never been in there :P Mar 04 00:15:39 n00bmonk3y, chav'glish, eh? Mar 04 00:15:44 just a bit quiet when I want to ask some questions Mar 04 00:17:36 * Wizzup wonders what nokia's reasoning was when they made their own wifi stuff rather than using wpa_supplicant Mar 04 00:17:47 Normally I wouldn't mind, but it simply doesn't work Mar 04 00:17:55 will wonders never cease! it works! Mar 04 00:17:58 it's alive!! Mar 04 00:22:35 lol fnord Mar 04 00:22:36 yeah :) Mar 04 00:22:41 sorry too many windows open Mar 04 00:27:10 https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1635 Ah... /me waits impatientienly for next update Mar 04 00:27:11 Bug 1635: Eduroam (EAP-TTLS+PAP) WiFi auth Mar 04 00:40:07 ha eduroam Mar 04 00:40:32 night all Mar 04 00:40:59 n00bmonk3y, i crashed with last nights again Mar 04 00:44:07 eduroam is very useful Mar 04 01:52:38 Hello Mar 04 01:52:54 can someone explain to me all the meebo fuzz? Mar 04 01:52:56 anyone good with fcron? I' having problems getting it to run /etc/cron.daily/* Mar 04 01:53:22 Askani: meego? Mar 04 01:53:40 yep Mar 04 01:53:43 thats it Mar 04 01:54:28 so? Mar 04 01:54:43 More specific question? Mar 04 01:54:56 Askani: Intel and Nokia have decided to merge forces and bring a new platform to the world. MeeGo will be taking the better parts of Maemo and Moblin to create a platform that will work seamlessly on phones, mobile devices, netbooks... Mar 04 01:54:56 Askani: suppose you'd heard you were meant to have a smartphone stragey, but were completely overcome by corporate confusion.... Mar 04 01:55:21 just to be sure Mar 04 01:55:36 I mean, Nokia makes us believe that N97 would be great Mar 04 01:55:40 and it isnt Mar 04 01:55:49 really bad piece of technology Mar 04 01:56:01 and two months later, boom N900 Mar 04 01:56:08 Askani: when did a company ever make anything and not tell you it was great? Mar 04 01:56:10 Maemo this, maemo that Mar 04 01:56:21 and then, boom meego Mar 04 01:56:30 just getting lost Mar 04 01:57:38 plonker Mar 04 01:57:46 lol, people are still crying? Mar 04 01:57:47 maher: please don't feed the trolls Mar 04 01:58:05 i wish they would contribute instead of cry and run to the fruitphone. Mar 04 01:58:42 I wish Nokia would quit poisoning their community. Mar 04 01:59:18 I wish people stopped being narrow-minded twats and calling competitors stupid nicknames Mar 04 02:06:53 ok - i don't get it - why can't calling fcrontab -l (as root) look at /etc/fcron.conf? Mar 04 02:08:01 oh cmon Mar 04 02:08:06 fruitphone is funny. Mar 04 02:12:45 bingo - /etc/fcron.conf must be _exactly_ 644 - 640 doesn't work as must check to see if its 644 Mar 04 02:13:04 in spite of what the documentation says... Mar 04 02:32:33 yay, i got a ps3 controller today, and was using it to play snes games on teh n900 :o **** ENDING LOGGING AT Thu Mar 04 02:59:58 2010