**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Fri Mar 12 02:59:57 2010 Mar 12 03:20:33 OMFG Mar 12 03:20:39 lardman isn't on the front page anymore! Mar 12 03:20:40 TWICE Mar 12 03:20:56 3 TIMES Mar 12 03:21:08 THE WORLD IS GOING TO END Mar 12 03:54:05 if anyone asks, I blame the meds Mar 12 03:56:59 figures Mar 12 04:19:07 need a browser that refuses to display 'digg this!' and the rest of the trash Mar 12 04:20:16 An add-on for microb that makes the user-agent configurable would be nice Mar 12 04:20:27 it's a pain in the arse going into about:config to change it everytime Mar 12 04:20:52 yeah that is a popular request Mar 12 04:21:34 I tried installing the older user agent changer add-on for microb, and it freaked out and trashed my microb settings Mar 12 04:21:34 kind of enjoying elinks-lite atm Mar 12 04:21:46 ha, yeah elinks is great Mar 12 04:22:05 I was going to give firefox-mobile a chance but there's no hover support, which is a deal killer Mar 12 04:24:59 how could i remove the junk from such a blog ... http://www.atlargely.com/ Mar 12 05:04:11 yo Mar 12 05:09:54 yogurt. Mar 12 05:23:32 Cheese for me. Got that happy effect. Mar 12 05:39:48 * slackmagic loves his n900 :D Mar 12 05:40:26 Welcome to my club. Mar 12 05:40:35 Unfortunately, there is a subscription charge. Mar 12 05:40:43 har. Mar 12 05:40:45 Which can easily be sent over paypal or snail mail. Mar 12 05:40:56 my rootfs is filling up so fast :( Mar 12 05:41:11 http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/5628/booyal.jpg , pidgin runs just fine when transferring $HOME/.purple/ over to the n900 from a workstation for example Mar 12 05:41:37 TigerTael: ;) hey that was my idea! lol Mar 12 05:41:54 slackmagic, hehe, soz. Mar 12 05:42:10 There is one thing I do find with the N900 community on the forums, everyone is so agro. Mar 12 05:42:33 agro? Mar 12 05:42:33 TigerTael: yeah, zealots Mar 12 05:42:39 aggressive pigs Mar 12 05:42:51 that's not just N900 but really any phone community I've seen Mar 12 05:43:12 lucent, I agree to an extent, but the talk forums are... quite bad. Mar 12 05:43:15 regular linux zealots see it and it's like "Okay, Go!" for them to jump in Mar 12 05:43:28 I mean, I reversed the kernel source for my HTC Magic on Android... Mar 12 05:43:41 I generally found people to be quite mellow and supportive. Mar 12 05:44:04 Looking on the talk forums, all I see is people cussing and arguing. Mar 12 05:44:31 TigerTael: there'll always be bad apples in a basket. Can't make everyone happy unfortunately. Just ignore 'em. Works for me :D Mar 12 05:46:00 the Flashlight applet is impossible to use when I need it Mar 12 05:46:12 lucent: how so? Mar 12 05:46:15 anyone else find it useful, but too annoying to activate to be useful? Mar 12 05:46:28 lucent: sort of agree there Mar 12 05:46:49 the current behavior is to check for camera in use and bail out if camera is being used Mar 12 05:47:15 so you can't record video with flashlight on... since the last minor revision or so Mar 12 05:47:32 the other thing is you can't just turn on the flashlight, you have to fumble around to close the camera app Mar 12 05:47:36 i rather want flashlight to block camera app from launching Mar 12 05:47:42 yeah. Mar 12 05:47:48 how would that work though? Mar 12 05:47:59 slackmagic, yeah. Mar 12 05:48:17 what's that widget called with all the status indicators Mar 12 05:48:52 when you tap it a dialog appears with "Battery / (Sound) [ | ]" and a bunch of things like "Clock & Alarms" "Profile" "Internet Connection" Mar 12 05:49:08 how would you possibly detect if the user has that dialog opened? Mar 12 05:49:52 my thinking is *if* the user has that dialog opened, and the lens cover is opened, default to activating the flashlight right then and there. Mar 12 05:51:11 lucent: sounds reasonable Mar 12 05:51:47 Okay. Question remains, what is that "dialog" I mentioned called in a technical term, and how to detect if it is on screen? Mar 12 05:56:47 lucent: statusbar perhaps? Mar 12 05:57:17 okay what happens when you tap the statusbar... the _______ dialog appears ? Mar 12 06:05:57 One of the first things I learned when I got my N900 is too keep a close look on rootfs. Mar 12 06:07:55 Forgive my noob-ality... but how do I do that? ;p Mar 12 06:09:12 TigerTael: ctrl+shift+x for terminal, then type in du -sh Mar 12 06:09:15 Do apps really tend to put stuff in /? Mar 12 06:09:23 the "du -sh" command is how I invoke it anyways Mar 12 06:09:31 it shows a human readable size of mounted filesystems Mar 12 06:09:40 you could do "du -sh /" to be more clear Mar 12 06:09:42 Should the default player support video through the UpNp? Mar 12 06:11:29 Does anyone find himself in the situation? Mar 12 06:11:32 I can hear the sound but I can see only the first frame Mar 12 06:12:15 similar* Mar 12 06:12:21 ebzzry2: a lot of the Ovi store crap made by OffScreen puts their steaming piles in / Mar 12 06:12:36 ...where it festers, forever. Mar 12 06:12:55 lucent: forever? aww Mar 12 06:13:21 not only that but if you have many repositories enabled for Apt / HAM then those caches take up lots of MB of space Mar 12 06:13:42 hmm Mar 12 06:13:55 there's not enough space allocated for rootfs if you are going to have the most commonly "developer" used catalogs enabled Mar 12 06:14:23 what is the current ideal proposed solution so far? Mar 12 06:15:09 re-flash, avoid installing crap. Mar 12 06:15:15 it's not "ideal" Mar 12 06:16:03 OMWeather should be "OMinousWeather" the way it requires confirmation that the user will reboot their device Mar 12 06:17:12 I've been looking at the ad-hoc solutions posted on maemo. most, if not all are just kludges. What apps would you suggest to uninstall? Mar 12 06:18:43 maemo.org* Mar 12 06:18:56 "uninstall" is not possible Mar 12 06:19:00 that's what I'm getting at Mar 12 06:19:20 TigerTael: could always make an alias and do like df -h|awk '/rootfs/ {print $1 " has " $4 " free."}' Mar 12 06:19:23 * DocScrutinizer wonders what kind of stupid spammer Emzzzz might be Mar 12 06:19:24 apps that drag in clutter to rootfs can be uninstalled, but the dependencies are not auto-removed and remain on rootfs Mar 12 06:19:29 so you're totally screwed by it. Mar 12 06:20:01 usually there's tens of MB of libraries you just don't need Mar 12 06:20:18 That doesn't sound so good. Mar 12 06:20:37 no sensible way I could determine (after -HOURS- of hackery) to pick them out without high potential for damage Mar 12 06:21:36 hmm Mar 12 06:26:46 TigerTael: cmdline widget, cmd: "df -h /" Mar 12 06:30:04 lucent: I'm hoping for a move of /usr and /var to eMMC eventually Mar 12 06:30:26 similar to /home Mar 12 06:46:35 there's a script that analyses which packages use a lot of space on rootfs Mar 12 06:46:48 and then moves them + symlink to free up memory Mar 12 06:46:54 google around for it, zerojay wrote it Mar 12 06:47:45 crashanddie: I suggest /mode +b Emzz* Mar 12 06:48:01 why? Mar 12 06:48:26 [2010-03-12 03:46:16] http://imggmi.info/DSC-1268361587.jpg/ do my tits look big? Mar 12 06:49:04 [openmoko] [2010-03-12 03:55:15] http://imggmi.info/DSC-1268362126.jpg/ do my tits look big? Mar 12 06:49:13 hmm Mar 12 06:49:28 is it +r or +R? Mar 12 06:49:31 can't remember Mar 12 06:50:34 I'm not sure this will help Mar 12 06:52:06 looks like a real human advertising a fsck site Mar 12 06:53:04 that should do it Mar 12 06:54:35 +q $~a tends to annoy users as they can'T change their nicks while /join the chan Mar 12 06:55:20 then register before joining? Mar 12 06:55:32 Either we get spammers, or we get moaners Mar 12 06:55:40 It's the lesser of two evils, really Mar 12 06:55:51 * luke-jr concurs with identifying before joining Mar 12 06:56:29 just put : in the 'server password' field Mar 12 06:56:39 then it happens before you even set a nick :) Mar 12 07:03:29 luke-jr: you'd be surprised how many even experienced users fail to understand that Mar 12 07:05:43 btw, (I have no join/quit msgs here, so can't tell for sure, but) I guess Emzzzz is a *real* user who might even register to spread his spam Mar 12 07:07:14 ssince ircd7 we seen really no automated spam afaik. Freenode is doing an amazingly good job on that one Mar 12 07:07:56 If i optimize a library I use /opt/lib/ as library path? Mar 12 07:08:09 optify? Mar 12 07:08:16 yes Mar 12 07:08:17 sorry Mar 12 07:08:19 optify Mar 12 07:09:09 no idea, I'd guess it looks about right Mar 12 07:09:13 ok. Mar 12 07:09:14 hm Mar 12 07:09:18 not really Mar 12 07:09:28 ? Mar 12 07:09:39 you have a link in /lib to /home/opt/lib Mar 12 07:09:52 and you use the correct libpath Mar 12 07:10:40 otherwise you package will break on non-optified systems Mar 12 07:11:54 aiui the moving&symlinking is even done in a postinstall script Mar 12 07:13:45 so your app executable and lib etc should be configured&built in a way agnostic of optification Mar 12 07:16:09 remember: Mar 12 07:16:15 ~optification Mar 12 07:16:17 hmm... optification is a botch to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the partitioning is FUBAR, or http://wiki.maemo.org/Free_up_rootfs_space Mar 12 07:16:42 and everybody hopes it'll vanish eventually Mar 12 07:17:17 DocScrutinizer, I only have 65mb on rootfs. ;/ Mar 12 07:17:26 LOL Mar 12 07:17:28 happy you Mar 12 07:17:33 "only" Mar 12 07:17:34 hahaha Mar 12 07:17:37 only... Mar 12 07:17:40 I have 19Mb Mar 12 07:17:47 25 here Mar 12 07:17:50 ;/ Mar 12 07:17:57 TigerTael, you're doing it wrong :P Mar 12 07:18:08 What am I doing wrong? :P Mar 12 07:18:18 you have too much free rootfs Mar 12 07:18:22 yesterday when enabling debian-built-for-maemo repo it dropped to 3.7 temporarily Mar 12 07:18:24 could be harmful Mar 12 07:18:38 that's a big repo Mar 12 07:18:40 apparently Mar 12 07:18:43 hahahaha Mar 12 07:18:44 yep Mar 12 07:19:03 33.1M free on rootfs here Mar 12 07:19:05 Too much free space. Mar 12 07:19:15 so anyway... compiled Glest, and it compiled and ran without a hich in sdk. Amazing stuff. Mar 12 07:19:16 luckily after I disabled it I was back to 25MB free Mar 12 07:19:44 compiling to arm now. I hope it works on the phone. Mar 12 07:20:02 what's glest? Mar 12 07:20:53 http://glest.org/en/gallery-screenshots.php Mar 12 07:21:26 holy mother of freedom Mar 12 07:21:31 is Glest MMO? Mar 12 07:23:06 mece: it seems that it will only work on little endian machines Mar 12 07:23:11 Dammit, I -hate- adhoc. Mar 12 07:23:43 mece: ""The Autobuilder supports automatic optification of submitted packages via maemo-optify. It is triggered by the file "debian/optify", as described in the README."" http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs Mar 12 07:23:52 ok coo.. Mar 12 07:23:54 l Mar 12 07:25:54 arm is bi-endian Mar 12 07:25:58 afaik Mar 12 07:26:05 cd .. Mar 12 07:26:07 doh Mar 12 07:26:24 rm -rf / Mar 12 07:26:39 nownow? Mar 12 07:26:53 dammit, firewall blocking my shared wifi connection. ;/ Mar 12 07:28:32 mece: it won't run two endianness concurrently though Mar 12 07:28:55 righty Mar 12 07:32:20 oh man what a day Mar 12 07:32:24 quite obviously an app having endianness issues with anything but raw framebuffer / audio / other hw drivers (there shouldn't be any outside kernel) is really poor programming style Mar 12 07:33:35 DocScrutinizer: say that to rrdtool developers Mar 12 07:35:00 hmm so sdk doesn't emulate endianness? Mar 12 07:35:08 8AM, go to hostpital to get checked out, 930, go to doctor from a few days ago to pay a due, 10am, go to storage facility to get a unit, 11am go pick up dry cleaning, 1200, take care of laundry, 1300 start packing, 1400 go to office to print out travel documents, 1600, get back to hotel, finish packing up, organise what will stay and come with, 1700, go drop off boxes at storage unit. 1730, ready for takeoff xD Mar 12 07:35:23 mece: arm is mostly little endian nowadays Mar 12 07:35:28 not knowing rrdtool nor the coders, do you really think they might consider they're idiots when I tell them but they weren't able to realize by themselves? Mar 12 07:35:30 mece: so are x86 PCs Mar 12 07:35:34 oh... so.. Mar 12 07:35:35 hm Mar 12 07:35:38 hmm Mar 12 07:35:41 the endianness shouldn't be a problem Mar 12 07:41:14 why the frak does libglut3-dev depend on xlibmesa in arm but not in x86?? Mar 12 07:41:36 err freeglut3-dev I mean Mar 12 07:42:44 curiously enough freeglut3-dbg works fine in both Mar 12 07:54:49 ~ping Mar 12 07:54:50 ~pong Mar 12 08:00:56 ~ding Mar 12 08:00:58 dong Mar 12 08:01:02 lol Mar 12 08:33:26 hmm I wonder if libgl-dev didn't come along from the beta version of maemo5 sdk because it's still beta? Mar 12 08:37:30 Guys, is it wiser to use the SDK virtual image or just install a new Ubuntu and start installing the SDK from scratch? Mar 12 08:37:46 Because the virtual image seems a bit messed up. ;/ Mar 12 08:39:29 I think I just answered my own question. Mar 12 08:39:39 I just installed easy-debian but I want to increase the size of the image, and I've forgotten what commands do I need to use to do this? resize2fs? etc. ty Mar 12 08:42:53 found it, http://forums.internettablettalk.com/showpost.php?p=419501&postcount=28 Mar 12 08:44:59 aghhhhhhhhhhh really cant be bothered with work today Mar 12 08:47:05 awesome Mar 12 08:47:11 I'll try that w/ my boss Mar 12 08:47:17 is there some daemon for rotating the screen on n900? rotate sometimes stops working on my cellphone in all apps Mar 12 08:47:19 :D Mar 12 08:51:32 sobczyk: rotate.py Mar 12 08:52:04 just search the forums. Mar 12 08:53:39 ok I see how the USB jack of the N900 is made now, and I notice that it requires a lot of force to plug it in and remove it that will eventually wear the socket out, so what are the suggestions to fixing it? squeezing those 2 notches that hold the plug in place? Mar 12 08:55:27 TigerTael: well, if you can live with Ubuntu... Mar 12 08:56:56 Funnyface: be carefull with insering/retracting, do *not* mess with the plugs or receptacle, and it will become more gentle eventually Mar 12 08:57:38 DocScrutinizer, I'm not sure I can. Mar 12 08:57:45 DocScrutinizer: You know they said the same about my wife... she never came more gentle w/ time... in fact it got worse! :( Mar 12 08:57:54 I think perhaps I should download a new Debian distro. Mar 12 08:57:59 Because ubuntu pisses me off. Mar 12 08:58:02 tybollt: LOL Mar 12 08:58:40 DocScrutinizer, I filed down the teeth/legs on the cable/charger, happy with the results. Mar 12 08:59:52 TigerTael: strongly deprecated (but that's only me doing so), as it may introduce all sorts of problems, *including* excessive wear Mar 12 09:01:06 Only question I have as far as the distro goes, 32bit or can I go 64bit? Mar 12 09:02:53 I mean, there shouldn't be a problem if I'm using 64bit right? Mar 12 09:02:59 one more thing, I was trying out mscim, uninstalled it and now I can't activate virtual keyboard (alt sym) nor the shift/alt are toggling is there a way to fix it? Mar 12 09:04:42 dammit Mar 12 09:04:57 Did anyone answer in regards to 64bit? Mar 12 09:05:11 no Mar 12 09:06:40 http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Jebba/SDK#Installing_Maemo_5_SDK_on_Fedora_12_x86_64 Mar 12 09:08:18 Well, I'm more thinking along the lines of debian x64... Mar 12 09:08:46 do you think it's that much of a difference Mar 12 09:08:48 ? Mar 12 09:09:24 Well, I see there might be some steps unnecessary there... Mar 12 09:10:21 I can always just use a 32bit distro if that's easier. ;/ Mar 12 09:10:27 No real need for 64bit at this point. Mar 12 09:10:33 TigerTael: nota bene the bootlader fix is probably pretty much independent of the particular distro, as it's mostly affecting kernel Mar 12 09:10:55 "sudo yum -y install Xephyr" Mar 12 09:11:34 And patching the python script... Mar 12 09:12:32 I'm guessing it's only the bootloader that I need to sort out? Mar 12 09:12:48 love when you get a call from someone and they go "let me connect you with my assisstant" and you get dropped from the line and cant call back Mar 12 09:14:28 frals: you bet those idiots get a stinky finger at best Mar 12 09:15:58 * noobmonk3y looks around, idiots, where? :D :D Mar 12 09:18:07 I haven't actually used fedora in a long time come to think of it Mar 12 09:21:13 hehe, the guy i was talking to was not an idiot thou ;) Mar 12 09:23:01 lol :D Mar 12 09:23:14 frals - your fmms really is still creating a buzz :D Mar 12 09:23:25 hehe Mar 12 09:23:44 i feel bad for not having time to code on it the last ~week Mar 12 09:24:30 * tybollt is too much of a knucklehead to get that awesome app to work Mar 12 09:25:01 hey linux gurus. is there an evironment variable for library paths? Mar 12 09:25:15 LD_LIBRARY_PATH Mar 12 09:25:21 it's emptu Mar 12 09:25:22 y Mar 12 09:25:27 yes Mar 12 09:25:28 set it Mar 12 09:25:31 ok.. Mar 12 09:25:32 well.. Mar 12 09:25:40 would that path replace the default one? Mar 12 09:25:45 or extend it Mar 12 09:25:52 extend Mar 12 09:25:57 cool thanks :) Mar 12 09:27:09 you can of course use compile time shitz when making too Mar 12 09:27:14 like -LPATH Mar 12 09:29:18 righty, well I don't feel like recompiling right now. Mar 12 09:29:32 it worked fine with LD_LIBRARY_PATH Mar 12 09:29:34 as elaborated earlier here, it's kinda deprecated though - at least for optifuckation purposes Mar 12 09:30:06 yeah I didn't create a deb for the lib I needed. I just copied the files. Mar 12 09:30:37 just testing here. Mar 12 09:30:40 DocScrutinizer: oh, ok, sorry :S Mar 12 09:31:18 np, just create a symlink from the FHS conforming location to the optified one, and use the correct original path in your binary Mar 12 09:32:29 :D Mar 12 09:39:45 there's also LD_PRELOAD Mar 12 09:39:55 ouch xfonts-base took a lot of rootfs :/ Mar 12 09:40:28 I wonder where they are located Mar 12 09:51:38 * noobmonk3y blinks Mar 12 09:51:41 must be coffee time! Mar 12 09:51:48 no. Mar 12 09:51:53 yes Mar 12 09:52:21 no. Mar 12 09:52:29 no. Mar 12 09:52:38 YES! Mar 12 09:53:13 no. Mar 12 09:53:47 http://ralphplsgo.com/ralph-pootawn-pictures.htm Mar 12 09:54:09 Morning, all Mar 12 09:55:36 lol Mar 12 09:55:40 Yes i say YES!!! Mar 12 09:55:42 lo jaffa :D Mar 12 09:55:57 sorry was just discussing the importance of me having a coffee.... Mar 12 09:58:19 np: Oscar Wilde - The importance of being caffinated. Mar 12 09:59:07 edheldil: there's also 'man ld.so' Mar 12 10:00:08 SpeedEvil: I have read it as 'importance of being coffinated' Mar 12 10:01:53 coffinated lol! Mar 12 10:02:16 the coffee is here, everyone can get back on with what they are doing :D Mar 12 10:45:27 sucks that n900 seems to be unable to play mythtv UpNp media smoothly Mar 12 10:46:00 In over all the whole thing sucks. I guess it only works for music and specific videos Mar 12 10:47:03 try knots2 media center Mar 12 10:47:24 gives you transcoded audio/video with seeking Mar 12 10:47:46 mpeg4/xvid and h264 baseline up to 800x480 with mafw-based players. Less than 640x480 with software based players Mar 12 10:47:49 For example if I try to access those shares directly from the mediaplayer -> one frame + freeze. If I access those from the file manager -> open them with media player -> no freez but the playback is slow and skipping is not possible. With kmplayer+djmount = very slow plaback with skipping support Mar 12 10:48:33 pupnik: I think I rather use darwinstreamingserver because it has support for h264 Mar 12 10:48:42 you need quality software Mar 12 10:48:55 "quality software" eh Mar 12 10:49:05 I guess mythweb is alright Mar 12 10:49:20 h264 ona N900 Mar 12 10:49:26 you gotta be kidding moi Mar 12 10:49:47 again, try knots2 media center Mar 12 10:50:06 tybollt: n900 supports hw acceleration for h264. h264 plays fine on my 6630 too Mar 12 10:50:17 tybollt: remember that the resolution is rescaled Mar 12 10:50:55 Sadly I think there is no hw acceleration for mpeg2 O_o Mar 12 10:52:44 mpeg2 patemnt licenses are more expensive Mar 12 10:53:01 due to the monopoly on dvd and dvb broadcasts Mar 12 10:53:43 unfortunately movies are a deeply profound clustfuck Mar 12 10:54:28 there are so many royalties and assholes trying to grab your money it is not really worth wathching films Mar 12 10:55:05 gunbritt? vafan :) Mar 12 10:55:22 mm? Mar 12 10:55:28 pupnik: the thing is that I already have darwinstreaminserver installed and I also have encode script. However I don't think I will be watching too much "tv" on my n900 Mar 12 10:55:37 just wouldn't be worth the time. Mar 12 10:56:04 same thing with 6630. I already had a darwinstreamingserver but I never used it Mar 12 10:57:09 knots2 does on-fly-encoding though which is a big plus. Mar 12 10:57:53 still would prefer darwin when on 2-3.5G Mar 12 11:00:29 pupnik: hopefully there will be coming more demo's to the youtube regarding that knots2 because it seems to be really cool especially if it is easy to setup Mar 12 11:01:04 muahaha :) Mar 12 11:01:09 inteallahonsen: hemma Mar 12 11:01:09 * Dassu doesn't have too much time in his hands to setup a server side again Mar 12 11:01:41 :) Mar 12 11:01:47 inteallahonsen: who are you? Mar 12 11:02:12 just some guy on the intirnets :) Mar 12 11:02:29 that doesn't have ... alla hönsen hemma... Mar 12 11:03:18 well i dunno if internets can send chickens over packets or that it can have them all at home. who knows Mar 12 11:03:59 dassu it is about as easy as it can be, given the components it requires Mar 12 11:04:12 anyway change back to the gunbritt nickname now... you crossdresser... Mar 12 11:04:22 lol Mar 12 11:04:59 nicks are like hats Mar 12 11:06:14 haha, well said Mar 12 11:06:40 yeah, I mostly use stuff that pops up in my head. username: yeswhynot password: sure Mar 12 11:06:41 Wearing a Nick sounds gay Mar 12 11:06:42 lol Mar 12 11:25:14 how can i disable the default keyring nag upon boot & wifi connection Mar 12 11:25:27 oops wrong chan :) Mar 12 11:26:43 damn fonts! Mar 12 11:26:47 grr argh Mar 12 11:32:12 lol Mar 12 11:46:35 is possible to run extra (desktop applications) on maemo, like as google earth? Mar 12 11:46:54 google earth would be cool but i doubt it exists for ARM.. Mar 12 11:46:55 :P Mar 12 11:47:00 morning Mar 12 11:47:17 you can run extra applications Mar 12 11:47:17 Stskeeps, n1 has google earth Mar 12 11:47:39 java based of course Mar 12 11:47:42 they are in the -extras repository J_P Mar 12 11:48:10 n1 is from google... Mar 12 11:48:36 ahh O forgot about google earth don't run in arm Mar 12 11:48:46 a port will be fine :-) Mar 12 11:49:04 well, but for run in android and iphone.. it not was ported? Mar 12 11:49:07 they run arm too Mar 12 11:49:15 * bilboed-tp finds Ovi Maps to be way way way way more detailed than any other mapping system Mar 12 11:49:18 J_P: *google* ports it to what it wants to Mar 12 11:49:34 J_P: Because GE is not free software. Mar 12 11:49:56 bilboed-tp: you are joking right? Mar 12 11:49:57 dottedmag: humm.. this is a problem with google.. Mar 12 11:50:03 bilboed-tp: :( ovi maps doesn't have street view Mar 12 11:50:27 -> futurama Mar 12 11:51:00 hrw-n900, Dassu : I don't give a *$(#@ about street views. It is really more detailed than any other mapping system. Find obscure little village in France => it has all the street names. Do the same on google map => fail Mar 12 11:51:08 that's what I mean by more detailed Mar 12 11:51:53 I find this varies a _lot_ by locale. Mar 12 11:52:30 derf, I guess Mar 12 11:52:31 I mean, I've been surprised to find things like an unnamed dirt hiking trail in the middle of Tasmania on Google Maps. Mar 12 11:52:58 bilboed-tp: for the town I live in (120 thousands of inhabitants) Ovi does not have any information at all. Mar 12 11:53:20 shit happens Mar 12 11:53:42 use openstreetmap Mar 12 11:53:47 add what you see Mar 12 11:54:38 here in .pt OVI is also better, probably they have better maps of Europe Mar 12 11:55:17 * dottedmag had a look Mar 12 11:55:22 Hah. in OSM it's pretty detailed Mar 12 11:55:33 Google Maps is also does not have a clue about this city Mar 12 11:56:04 dottedmag, you can always improve OSM ;) Mar 12 11:56:12 bilboed-tp: I compare ovi maps to tomtom Mar 12 11:57:03 bilboed-tp: ovi maps is useless in offline. no POI, no GPS fix Mar 12 11:57:07 VDVsx: just wanted to stop "blahblah this is best " mantra :) Mar 12 11:57:49 hrw, that's not true, I use offline mode always and works fine Mar 12 11:58:07 not in the N900 of course :D Mar 12 11:58:41 VDVsx: I mean ovi maps/n900 Mar 12 11:58:56 hrw, ok, so that's right :D Mar 12 11:59:02 VDVsx: ovi maps/s60 are light years ahead then maemo5 crap version Mar 12 11:59:30 are there a virtual keyboard app that works very well? Mar 12 11:59:45 VDVsx: but thats nokia - they never had good navigation stuff for maemo devices. Mar 12 11:59:50 or good gps receivers Mar 12 12:00:06 well Mar 12 12:00:08 also my 5800 get gps fixes(seconds, without assist) much faster than my n900(minutes) Mar 12 12:00:20 tomtom gps chip is worse than n900 gps chip Mar 12 12:00:29 it's just a software that does all magic Mar 12 12:00:31 it is amazing that tomtom 3rd gets gps fix in <1 minute without network connection when n900 in same place/time never gets fix Mar 12 12:00:43 VDVsx: i got the opposite experience with my gfs 5800 :D Mar 12 12:00:45 hrw: impossible Mar 12 12:00:54 hrw: it takes more to sent ephemeris t Mar 12 12:01:10 jacekowski: checked with n810, n900, e66, tomtom Mar 12 12:01:15 hrw: cold start takes at least 25 minutes Mar 12 12:01:22 I also get a gps fix with N900 in seconds. Mar 12 12:01:23 hrw: and there is no way around it Mar 12 12:01:24 is there a good way to get standard linux fonts to the N900? Mar 12 12:01:29 frals, last ovi maps right ? Mar 12 12:01:34 MiXu-: offline? Mar 12 12:01:37 hrw: unless gps have information from other sources Mar 12 12:01:41 online of course Mar 12 12:01:48 Why would you even use it offline :) Mar 12 12:01:54 VDVsx: uh not sure, not tested it for a while so probably not Mar 12 12:01:59 MiXu-, roaming... Mar 12 12:02:01 online is cheating :D Mar 12 12:02:07 hrw: hrw http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_to_first_fix Mar 12 12:02:09 that doesn't count Mar 12 12:02:12 Ok, roaming is acceptable :) Mar 12 12:03:47 jacekowski: I do not remember when last time had to wait 10-20 minutes for fix with tomtom Mar 12 12:03:50 I think the problem is in the n900 SW, even my OM can fix faster than my n900 (if in a new location without any cache) Mar 12 12:04:35 offline of course, online is preaty fast Mar 12 12:06:23 VDVsx: I prefer to avoid roaming gprs Mar 12 12:06:38 me too :) Mar 12 12:06:43 I'm poor Mar 12 12:10:50 so how the frak does the font configuration differ between sdk and N900? The n900 seem to have more fonts than the sdk.. Mar 12 12:10:58 Maemo is hiring like made people :P : 34 positions open at Nokia to work on Maemo / MeeGo projects in Finland and USA http://tinyurl.com/nnt34l Mar 12 12:11:18 sounds good Mar 12 12:11:24 for us customers Mar 12 12:11:54 Comes back blank for me. Mar 12 12:15:17 ( hrw: cold start takes at least 25 minutes) That's what I thought as well (well, 15 min) - I had to learn though each sat sends his *own* trajectory data quite fast. This way GPS on FR was tuned to get a cold fix within 15sec, if sat signal si strong enough Mar 12 12:15:53 You people are confusing the "ephemeris" with the "almanac". Mar 12 12:15:59 at least that's what the developer of the GPS lib told me Mar 12 12:16:35 ephem takes 3min afaik, alm takes 15 Mar 12 12:16:47 Well, no. Mar 12 12:17:04 Ephemeris is sent every 30 seconds. Mar 12 12:17:30 VDVsx: only shows 26 positions for me there ;P Mar 12 12:17:31 A single channel receiver would need 2:00-2:30 to get enough for a fix. Mar 12 12:17:46 frals, blame Qgil :D Mar 12 12:17:55 his link Mar 12 12:17:57 A multichannel receiver could download it from all of the satellites simultaneously. Mar 12 12:18:21 hehe Mar 12 12:18:27 And have enough for a fix in 0:30-0:60. Mar 12 12:18:29 derf: ack Mar 12 12:18:58 Assuming it has a valid almanac. Mar 12 12:19:09 _That_ gets sent every 12.5 minutes. Mar 12 12:19:22 khertan: ping Mar 12 12:19:27 But you don't need to get it again every time. Mar 12 12:19:33 and you need a error free transmission for that time Mar 12 12:19:52 Well, sure, but that's what modulation schemes are for. Mar 12 12:20:45 aiui that's why a fix is getting much more precise after some 5..20minutes Mar 12 12:20:50 sometimes Mar 12 12:26:53 * noobmonk3y has decided the world is QGil's fault......... tis true........ Mar 12 12:27:38 lol... [Repetition alert by noobmonk3y in #maemo] Mar 12 12:27:47 hahaha Mar 12 12:29:28 Worstcase lock time I've seen without network position outdoors with a good view of the sky is 10 mins. Mar 12 12:29:32 Which really rather sucks Mar 12 12:30:28 * SpeedEvil is unsure if the ephemeris is broadcast synchronously, or asynchronously on all sats Mar 12 12:35:11 someone has ported LyX to the N900 yet? Mar 12 12:35:43 I have lynx installed, which is close. Mar 12 12:35:49 noobmonk3y, ah, he's a nice guy, without him, we were probably doomed to a 'Symbian-like treatment' :D :D Mar 12 12:37:12 hey, has anyone here heard about harmattan? Mar 12 12:37:17 no Mar 12 12:37:39 new chewing-gum ? Mar 12 12:37:47 it's an old myth from the locals, isn't it? I don't think it exists. Mar 12 12:39:00 ptl: LyX? what for? Mar 12 12:39:13 I think Harmattan is a city in the middle east Mar 12 12:39:26 hrw: it'd be useful to me, and I think it fits the purpose of the device Mar 12 12:39:56 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harmattan Mar 12 12:39:58 ;) Mar 12 12:40:12 hrw: if there are people who use it for things like editting word documents (abiword is there), LyX pretty much fits there too... Mar 12 12:41:01 ptl: check that etch recompile repo maybe Mar 12 12:41:02 And aside from a bunch of libraries, there doesn't seem to be a big deterrent to it. LaTeX and texlive are already ported... Mar 12 12:41:15 Yeah... I was thinking about doing that myself... Mar 12 12:42:07 But I have a LyX document to finish first! Mar 12 12:43:23 lyx in .se means luxury... so you're dealing w/ some fancy document there eh? Mar 12 12:45:05 tybollt: my dissertation. Why luxury? Any more luxury than these crazy people that write .doc/.xls/.ppt on their mobiles? Mar 12 12:47:01 =) Mar 12 12:47:11 ptl: btw CAN you do that ona 900 anyway? Mar 12 12:50:02 write docs and xls, definitely. I have abiword and gnumeric working OK in my own device. Mar 12 12:50:37 Hey guys. I'm looking for the Maemo SDK (and scratchbox) distributed in a regular tarball, all I can find are debs and dpkg dependant installers. Any nice urls? Mar 12 12:50:38 About ppt I don't know. Maybe if you boot with easy-debian and fire up openoffice.org? Mar 12 12:51:02 Anyway, LyX is much lighter... Mar 12 12:51:18 ptl: beh... Mar 12 12:51:22 ptl: OOo :) Mar 12 12:53:02 09:43 lyx in .se means luxury... so you're dealing w/ some fancy document there eh? Mar 12 12:53:06 I got the meaning of that phrase now Mar 12 12:53:08 I'm kinda slow Mar 12 12:53:18 you mean 'lyx' is a swedish word for luxury? Mar 12 12:56:27 I waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaant PR 1.2!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Mar 12 12:56:45 s/a*/a/ Mar 12 12:57:22 s/\!*/\!/ also Mar 12 12:58:50 but all you will get is Valium. Mar 12 12:59:03 s/.*PR.*1\.2.*// Mar 12 12:59:06 ok this is silly Mar 12 12:59:08 http://www.mobil.se/polopoly_fs/Ubuntu-pa-Touch-Pro2-1.336333.html!/image/3867352154.jpg Mar 12 12:59:25 HTC craptastic phone shitz can do full fledged OOo Mar 12 12:59:29 but we can't? :-| Mar 12 12:59:48 tybollt: Looks fine to me Mar 12 12:59:58 yeah Mar 12 12:59:59 we also can, but will it run at usable speed? Mar 12 13:00:18 oh well Mar 12 13:01:17 will the menus be usable size? Mar 12 13:01:42 will it print ? ;-P Mar 12 13:03:32 will it work as supposed with N900 mouse right button? Mar 12 13:17:47 * lupine_85 watches N900 abjectly fail to last the day Mar 12 13:18:49 that's a bit insane Mar 12 13:21:11 4 hours Mar 12 13:21:12 and I've not actually been actively using it Mar 12 13:21:21 yeah Mar 12 13:21:23 any IM accounts? Mar 12 13:21:38 the battery is craptastic once you get connected and go for things like MFE etc Mar 12 13:22:52 yep, two Mar 12 13:23:06 but the day before yesterday it was happy doing 9 hours Mar 12 13:24:27 lupine_85: Should I turn off the live camfeed from your device? Mar 12 13:24:35 quite odd - it spammed me with about 6 battery low alerts in a few minutes Mar 12 13:24:41 SpeedEvil, please :) Mar 12 13:25:11 I want 'Backlight always on on wall-charger or if fully charged' Mar 12 13:27:05 argh, 1.8.7 patchlevel 72 is naughty Mar 12 13:28:21 doesn't like select &b (needs to be select(&b)) and doesn't like def mouse(&b = nil) (needs to be ...(&b)) Mar 12 13:29:40 the battery is only 1320 mAh Mar 12 13:29:58 ahahaha, wrong channel for the ruby-messages Mar 12 13:30:08 most mobile phones of the same kind seem to use a 1400 mAh battery instead... Mar 12 13:30:10 ptl, don't suppose it's replaceable with another, larger, one is it? Mar 12 13:30:15 it is Mar 12 13:30:25 * lupine_85 bets it's expensive, has a hunt Mar 12 13:30:28 1320 to 1400mAh won't make that much difference. ;/ Mar 12 13:30:32 there is such a replaceable battery for the N900 but it makes it a lot fatter Mar 12 13:30:34 I want an 1800mAh battery, please. Mar 12 13:31:02 the problem is websites Mar 12 13:31:09 well, it's about 6% more Mar 12 13:31:17 well, what about 2400 mAh? Would it make a difference? Mar 12 13:31:18 evil sh1tty websites Mar 12 13:31:19 http://nokiaaddict.com/2010/02/09/the-n900-get-a-bigger-battery-2400mah/ Mar 12 13:31:42 ptl, that would be nice. Mar 12 13:31:50 $87.95 Mar 12 13:31:50 make your N900 even fatter and heavier? Mar 12 13:31:57 it's not that ba Mar 12 13:31:58 ..d Mar 12 13:32:17 Well, I don't want to make the phone bigger tbh. Mar 12 13:32:23 one thing I did last night was move some directories from /usr/share to /opt/home Mar 12 13:32:27 http://www.mugen-power-batteries.com/nokia/nokia-n900.html Mar 12 13:32:28 and symlink them Mar 12 13:32:29 lupine_85: What? It's 7 mm more. Mar 12 13:32:36 That's prety bad. Mar 12 13:32:42 +t Mar 12 13:32:43 lupine_85, and then what happened? Mar 12 13:32:50 nothing, I just had more room on / Mar 12 13:33:01 Oh sweet. Mar 12 13:33:06 I'm just wondering if the increased access of the mmc device would increase power drain? Mar 12 13:33:16 lupine_85, good point. Mar 12 13:33:42 If I hadn't already ordered a rubber case I'd order this battery Mar 12 13:33:48 And it's missing a stand. Mar 12 13:33:53 I need a silicone case. ;/ Mar 12 13:33:55 yes I was hoping that they'd show up with a larger N900 battery Mar 12 13:34:01 to me it's more important to have a long online time than having a light device Mar 12 13:34:05 although it doesn't have to be as large as the one posted there Mar 12 13:34:10 so right now the n900 is 17mm Mar 12 13:34:26 my previous mobile phone was a HTC athena Mar 12 13:34:39 adding just 3mm to it would be enough to boost the battery time some Mar 12 13:34:50 ptl: Mar 12 13:35:05 also, a larger capacity battery powers the device more efficiently, so you have less losses in heat :P Mar 12 13:35:06 TBH, I can't see another 7mm making it xbox hueg Mar 12 13:35:46 it was already large, 5" screen, 133x98x16mm and I even took it with the keyboard and the leather case Mar 12 13:35:55 still, I need to conclusively discover - and fix - whatever's draining the current battery at 2x the speed Mar 12 13:36:16 it just turned itself off *sigh* Mar 12 13:36:18 lupine_85: run powertop for a while in your device Mar 12 13:36:23 yeah Mar 12 13:37:26 RST38h: the good point of having such a heavy device is that you'd never forget it anywhere, you'd always feel if it's not in your (oversized) pocket Mar 12 13:37:48 very good device, btw. Too bad it has WM6.1 Mar 12 13:38:06 if I'm using it as half a laptop replacement, I don't really care whether it's slightly larger than a nokia 3200 Mar 12 13:38:08 I bought it because I saw a video in youtube of someone installing linux on it. Mar 12 13:38:21 I thought by the time I bought it would already be ready for Linux... Mar 12 13:38:25 but it never was. Mar 12 13:39:05 (45 x 107 x 20.8 mm) vs (110.9 x 59.8 x 18 or 25 mm) Mar 12 13:39:10 I can't say how it is a long-sought dream of having a mobile phone with such a typical Linux distro. Mar 12 13:39:35 it's good, isn't it? :P) Mar 12 13:40:08 not only good, I finally feel like I'm in control of my own cellphone. Mar 12 13:40:28 and now they're going to ruin it with meego and trusted computing ;) Mar 12 13:40:31 ...or ar you talking about the devices measurements? Mar 12 13:40:41 the linux Mar 12 13:40:46 trusted computing? Hope it's not Dr Mar 12 13:40:48 *DR< Mar 12 13:40:49 aagh Mar 12 13:41:02 *DRM Mar 12 13:41:04 well, maemo 6 was meant to have a hardware TPM Mar 12 13:41:11 I couldn't even spell the name, does this channel have some kind of badwords-protection? Mar 12 13:41:22 *o< QUACK! Mar 12 13:42:02 I do not see the point of the mugen device. if you're willing to carry something chunky and massive, why not carry a zaggsparq or similar, it's 6000mAh *as well* as the 1320 in the phone, rather than just 2400 flat, and you can choose to not carry it round when you want light instead of legs Mar 12 13:42:02 lupine_85: but in the meego statements they said they want to make the OS more open than ever Mar 12 13:42:02 http://wiki.maemo.org/Talk:Maemo_security Mar 12 13:42:17 nid0, I like that idea better. Mar 12 13:42:19 I've no idea how much of this is planned to go over to meego. I suspect all Mar 12 13:42:31 the plan was to have two modes - DRM-to-the-hilt, and open Mar 12 13:42:46 then people can sell stuff and artificially restrict it so it'll only run in the DRM-to-the-hilt mode Mar 12 13:43:08 Hmmm Mar 12 13:43:29 anyone see the openssl power-mediated vulnerability? :) Mar 12 13:43:47 nid0: it might be a good compromise for some people, because the zaggsparq (I just checked its page) is still a separate and therefore clumky device Mar 12 13:44:10 I haven't, is it something like dsniff all over again, lupine_85? Mar 12 13:44:14 when maemo will complete move to meego? Mar 12 13:44:37 J_P: at this point I think nobody knows, not even Nokia or Intel executives Mar 12 13:44:52 jury is still out on that one Mar 12 13:45:00 J_P: because it'll probably depend to some extent on community activity Mar 12 13:45:13 or as nookla like to say it... ottelini and jaaksi are still in the sauna about that one... Mar 12 13:45:26 nid0: hmmm, I'm interested in that zaggsparq, thanks for the suggestion Mar 12 13:45:27 ptl, by injecting power fluctuations into the PSU while it's verifying stuff based on the private key, you can get it to reveal a couple of bits of the PK Mar 12 13:45:39 not sure exactly how it works Mar 12 13:45:45 ptl, Energizer have made one like that too. Mar 12 13:45:48 http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/03/04/severe_openssl_vulnerability/ Mar 12 13:45:49 lupine_85: wow, that seems rather extreme Mar 12 13:46:01 ptl do you think that this merge is a really adantage for nokia (maemo)? Mar 12 13:46:05 it's an infeasible attack for HTTPS Mar 12 13:46:12 ptl: that's just one example which happens to have a monster battery in it, there are loads of similar ones though that're also smaller Mar 12 13:46:13 This item is currently Mar 12 13:46:14 OUT OF STOCK Mar 12 13:46:16 for TPMs, it's a buster Mar 12 13:46:16 (zaggsparq) Mar 12 13:46:22 J_P, I think for Nokia yes... for the community, who knows. Mar 12 13:46:53 I don't like meego using rpm Mar 12 13:46:56 so I'm happy for them to DRM it. I'll wait for someone better at crypto than me to crack the DRM, then pirate all the good applications Mar 12 13:47:00 ~fin@ Mar 12 13:47:02 J_P: I don't know, I haven't even seen Meego, but I'd prefer debs instead of RPMs, because of the ease with which you can just recompile regular linux packages to maemo. Mar 12 13:47:13 ptl: energizer and powermonkey both do ones that arent much larger than AA batteries, which is what the energizer one actually uses, and you can swap out batteries - personally I have one that's got a 2500mAh battery in it, is credit-card shaped and maybe 50% the thickness of the n900, and has solar panels Mar 12 13:47:21 ptl, the ease is still there Mar 12 13:47:34 just for source rpms instead of source debs Mar 12 13:47:37 nid0, sweet, what is that one called? Mar 12 13:47:45 (and you can still use alien to convert between the two) Mar 12 13:47:50 ptl Yes, I agree.. I prefer debs too.. that is very strange.. Mar 12 13:48:12 marge was "officialy" made, but in the pratical don't exist.. Mar 12 13:48:29 lupine_85: but due to the fragmentation of RPMs, also due to the lack of tools like deb, it'll be more difficult and more distant from the more popular desktop distribution right now. Mar 12 13:48:37 TigerTael - it's some semi unbranded thing I got from a uk site, its at: http://www.iwantoneofthose.com/solar-charger-v2/index.html Mar 12 13:48:38 apt-rpm? Mar 12 13:48:43 i'll see if i can find some brand details Mar 12 13:48:46 apt-rpm is unmaintained Mar 12 13:48:48 the whole idea is to remove the distro upstream, AIUI Mar 12 13:48:50 due to smart Mar 12 13:48:58 which might, or might not, be a good thing Mar 12 13:49:02 I used apt-rpm for a couple years Mar 12 13:49:04 It was nice Mar 12 13:49:04 nid0, maybe I can find one. Mar 12 13:49:06 it's a clean slate, wot Mar 12 13:49:16 but mostly, the decision isn't going to change just because we complain about it Mar 12 13:50:16 I'm wondering if I should stick to Debian now or move to Fedora for convenience on development. Mar 12 13:50:19 ptl meego justify that rpm is because process to develop/made pacakges in maemo is dificult.. Mar 12 13:50:20 J_P: they said because of the OBS - Opensuse Build System - which is what they use for building the whole distro (which includes cross-compilation), rpm will fit in better, and has tools that are not available for the deb format Mar 12 13:50:46 hehe Mar 12 13:50:49 TigerTael, apt-get install yum Mar 12 13:50:56 ~fin :) Mar 12 13:51:02 J_P: I don't know anything about OBS. I just hope they're right. I don't care that much about the packaging system if and only if it makes it easy for me to port the programs I'm interested in. Mar 12 13:51:02 ehehehe Mar 12 13:51:12 lupine_85, well, I wouldn't call that an ideal solution. ;p Mar 12 13:51:14 as long as OBS is nothing like the rest of opensuse, it'll all be ok Mar 12 13:51:26 So should I consider OpenSuse too then? ;p Mar 12 13:51:29 yast is something that needs shooting in the face Mar 12 13:51:38 lupine_85, agreed. Mar 12 13:51:44 * lupine_85 peeks at OBS Mar 12 13:51:44 OperSuse was terrible when I tried it last. Mar 12 13:51:50 Open* Mar 12 13:51:54 and OBS is really better? Mar 12 13:51:57 looks like it's just launchpad/ppa for rpm Mar 12 13:52:00 I dunno Mar 12 13:52:14 Some people said it can build debs oo Mar 12 13:52:17 *too Mar 12 13:52:22 Can it? Mar 12 13:52:27 Does anyone here know? Mar 12 13:52:40 Maemo is beautiful and fast and pure linux. And I wait meego as one SUPER maemo. Mar 12 13:52:49 I haven't used Linux since slackware 8 days... ;/ Mar 12 13:53:01 J_P, I would like that too. Mar 12 13:53:01 'The openSUSE Build Service is the only service that allows developers to package software for all major Linux distributions' Mar 12 13:53:06 ....except everything based on Debian Mar 12 13:53:09 hrh Mar 12 13:53:12 LOL Mar 12 13:53:24 http://www.davidgilson.co.uk/2009/12/nokia-bp-4l-substitute-battery-test/ Mar 12 13:53:28 http://en.opensuse.org/Build_Service/cross_distribution_package_how_to Mar 12 13:53:44 ahahha Mar 12 13:53:51 "....except everything based on Debian" Mar 12 13:53:54 that is a joke Mar 12 13:54:15 meego is crazy? Mar 12 13:54:42 RST38h, cool, now I need one for N900 please. Mar 12 13:54:45 lupine_85: did you skim over that a little bit too quickly? Mar 12 13:54:46 No exploding ones though. Mar 12 13:54:57 No doughnut for you, sorry =( Mar 12 13:54:59 IF the OBS can build deb packages Mar 12 13:55:05 why use it for rpm? Mar 12 13:55:05 hmm Mar 12 13:55:13 ahahaha, so I did Mar 12 13:55:20 http://en.opensuse.org/Build_Service/Deb_builds Mar 12 13:58:17 I found out Mar 12 13:58:27 OBS builds deb packages but doesn't use the deb sources Mar 12 13:58:36 it uses .src.rpm's for that Mar 12 13:59:02 so, instead of a halfway change, changing everything would be indeed better. Mar 12 13:59:03 winds of change Mar 12 13:59:05 ptl: pretty sure it can use debian source.. see http://en.opensuse.org/Build_Service/Deb_builds#Minimum_set_of_files_required_to_create_.deb Mar 12 13:59:14 but regardless, OBS isn't the only thing in the equation Mar 12 14:00:14 I'm sure it'll all be fine Mar 12 14:00:22 burchr: well, it says this: the Build Service will not create a source repository for .deb-based distributions, but only the .deb will be created Mar 12 14:00:42 burchr: isn't it? Mar 12 14:00:44 ptl: yes, meaning that you can't use a deb package manager to fetch the source... Mar 12 14:00:59 well, indeed. but that's fine Mar 12 14:01:02 burchr: what do we have apart from OBS? Mar 12 14:01:19 lupine_85: considerations of use of rpm I understand, but I this not mean acceptable Mar 12 14:01:30 eh? Mar 12 14:01:32 burchr: not being able to use a deb package manager to fetch the source --> that is just the feature I use extensively to port my packages to maemo...!! Mar 12 14:01:43 ptl: I think you're getting very, very confused Mar 12 14:01:58 ptl: you put debian packaging into OBS, you get a binary package out of it Mar 12 14:02:02 burchr: so unconfuse me please :D Mar 12 14:02:03 getting burchr? I was always this confused :( Mar 12 14:02:06 ptl: the missing bit is that the end-user can't request source Mar 12 14:02:39 Ok, but the end-user might benefit if a technical user ports his favorite packages Mar 12 14:02:45 back to the 'what else is there' question, I'd suggest signing up at http://wiki.meego.com/Proposal_for_a_Debian_Packaging_working_group Mar 12 14:02:50 ptl: you're still confused Mar 12 14:02:51 so easing the task of the technical user is a big advantage Mar 12 14:03:19 ptl: all they have to do is to upload the relevant packaging and the source to OBS, and a binary package is built, there is no 'porting' as such Mar 12 14:03:29 burchr: wow good urll.. Mar 12 14:03:29 just... no Mar 12 14:03:33 ptl: the *user* generally doesn't need to know about source Mar 12 14:03:50 there's absolutely no point to one distribution having two packaging systems Mar 12 14:03:58 lupine_85: *shrug*. Mar 12 14:04:08 if people want to spend time on it, it's not like you can stop them Mar 12 14:04:14 absolutely Mar 12 14:04:17 I personally have doubts as to whether it will go anywhere Mar 12 14:04:22 but that doesn't mean I can't ridicule them for it :) Mar 12 14:04:44 burchr: I used the wrong word, it's not porting per se (while it might steel need adaptations), it's cross-compiling, but nevertheless, does it make that much of a difference in the argument? Mar 12 14:04:55 ptl: I'm really not understanding you Mar 12 14:05:02 s/steel/still/ Mar 12 14:05:02 ptl meant: burchr: I used the wrong word, it's not porting per se (while it might still need adaptations), it's cross-compiling, but nevertheless, does it make that much of a difference in the argument? Mar 12 14:05:05 ptl, you can get srpm files and cross-compile them as easily as dsc s Mar 12 14:05:17 ptl: for the software packager, there is essentially nothing missing from OBS Mar 12 14:05:27 and most stuff that comes in .deb is also packaged as .rpm Mar 12 14:05:32 ptl: the bit that won't work is apt-get source, as an end-user Mar 12 14:05:40 lupine_85: Yes, I know, and that's the problem, the rpm world is much more fragmented than the deb world Mar 12 14:05:56 *shrug* I wouldn't really say so Mar 12 14:05:59 * burchr goes to get productive things done, anyway Mar 12 14:06:03 lupine_85: regardless of whether it was caused by policy, history or such and such Mar 12 14:06:13 Most people in community want/like to use debs, why meego are doing outside.. Mar 12 14:06:15 ? Mar 12 14:06:26 depending on what you mean by fragmented, of course Mar 12 14:06:30 J_P: this argument is done and dead already Mar 12 14:06:37 burchr: yes, that's what I use to get the ubuntu sources to compile for my N900, that is exacly the point Mar 12 14:06:38 J_P, actually, the vast majority are indifferent, hence why they're not talking about it Mar 12 14:06:40 burchr: it's easy Mar 12 14:06:46 J_P: if you're interested in helping out with deb infrastructure, sign up on that wiki page, that's it Mar 12 14:06:51 ptl: again, you miss the point Mar 12 14:06:53 ptl, you could use the fedora repos to exactly the same end Mar 12 14:07:02 or the centos ones, if wanted to Mar 12 14:07:08 * DocScrutinizer sighs on the whole batery topic Mar 12 14:07:08 they're exactly equivalent Mar 12 14:07:13 J_P: or sign up in the meego dev lists and reignite the flame! It will be fun! Mar 12 14:07:15 now, I love deb, but I don't care Mar 12 14:07:49 stealing packages of any format from another distro comes a poor second to packaging the upstream directly, specificially for the target distro Mar 12 14:08:03 lupine_85: why? they said they wouldn't have an upstream. And centos and fedora (to a lesser extent) are not very geared towards the end-user like ubuntu. Ubuntu has lots more desktop packages. Mar 12 14:08:37 ptl, when you cross-compile a package from debian/ubuntu, it's not tuned for the n900. it might have some patches for desktop usage, but probably not Mar 12 14:08:46 * tybollt hands DocScrutinizer a complimentary pink poneh Mar 12 14:08:47 lupine_85: agreed Mar 12 14:08:52 cross-compiling a fedora srpm will be /exactly the same/ Mar 12 14:09:05 the two operations are exactly equivalent Mar 12 14:09:07 lupine_85: as I said, it sometimes needs an adaptation, which could even be huge. Mar 12 14:09:08 wee needs think very well, because meego (old maemo and moblin) will/are competing with iphone os and android.. wee needa a large community.. Mar 12 14:09:12 all that differs are the exavt tools Mar 12 14:09:44 Ok Mar 12 14:09:51 just to let you have an example Mar 12 14:10:17 recently I had to recompile, both in deb and rpm form, a specific build of bioperl along with several bioinformatic libraries. Mar 12 14:10:24 I had to do that both on Ubuntu and Fedora 11. Mar 12 14:11:11 even with rpms targetted specifically for fedora 11 (which were way more difficult to find than for ubuntu), I had lots more problems and incompatibilities than with Ubuntu (even using files from debian) Mar 12 14:11:28 this is still useless Mar 12 14:11:33 even now the fedora installation does not run as well as the ubuntu installation. Mar 12 14:11:36 talking for hours here isn't going to change anything Mar 12 14:11:41 burchr, indeed Mar 12 14:11:43 if you're interested in deb, sign up at the wiki page I mentioned earlier Mar 12 14:12:18 and fwiw, I don't consider that a very good argument, I've had just as many experiences the other way, for my subjective $0.02 Mar 12 14:12:31 burchr: agreed, but I want a solution. If I am so devilishly forced to use rpm, I want to know how I can solve these problems that I didn' have with debs. Mar 12 14:12:35 (and yet, I still use debian based distros primarily) Mar 12 14:13:04 ptl: then wait until there's something more concrete, and you actually encounter a problem that needs solving Mar 12 14:13:04 ptl, if you're really stuck, compile as deb, use alien, chillax ;) Mar 12 14:13:06 I think that decision still more political than pratical.. Mar 12 14:13:31 * burchr really goes t o do productive things. Mar 12 14:13:34 J_P, almost certainly. and that's why it's not going to change. doesn't increase the decision's relative importance, though Mar 12 14:13:34 burchr: and the 'talking for hours here isn't going to change anything' argument --- well, we have people from Nokia and Intel here, doesn't that just exposes the problem that they're listening? Is this a community-geared approach or what? Mar 12 14:13:47 ptl: *argh* Mar 12 14:13:51 burchr: sorry but now you're just boosting my revolted self! :P Mar 12 14:13:52 talking won't make things happen Mar 12 14:13:57 nah, the decision wasn't made with community input Mar 12 14:14:00 *sign up on the wiki page for making things happen* Mar 12 14:14:08 lupine_85: yeaaaah, that's my point Mar 12 14:14:12 it's no biggie Mar 12 14:14:30 the decision to use .deb in the first place wasn't made with community input, I'll bet Mar 12 14:14:33 lupine_85: but if community don't want, political decision will change, because without community help Meego don't exist.. Mar 12 14:14:36 lupine_85: I tried that too many times, hope it was that easy and hadn't had the same problems I mentioned with building rpms, if not worse Mar 12 14:14:48 * lupine_85 stops caring Mar 12 14:15:15 btw Mar 12 14:15:36 much more people can say sane things about not being able to use deb than the ones with the time and knowledge enough for making 'things happen' Mar 12 14:16:02 I could sign to help but I'd probably not have the commitment and time to effectively help. Mar 12 14:16:22 in which case, it won't get done Mar 12 14:16:25 and that does not mean I don't care or I do not want it that way... Mar 12 14:16:32 that's both the blessing and the curse of community development Mar 12 14:16:34 take it or leave it Mar 12 14:17:02 sort of Mar 12 14:17:02 but I believe many more are in my place. Mar 12 14:17:33 I've no doubt there's a lot of people on both sides who have an opinion Mar 12 14:17:33 that's why we'd like a system with a more straightforward approach than rpm. The system we've been using, actually. Mar 12 14:17:36 everyone has one Mar 12 14:17:42 and someone has to be right Mar 12 14:17:43 what matters is who does the work, not who has the opinions Mar 12 14:17:56 if you want it to happen, you have to make it happen Mar 12 14:18:02 at least on what concerns to the majority of developers Mar 12 14:18:03 crashanddie: what's w/ the internet content filtering over there and in nz? Is pr0n and terrist-bomb-recipes really that much worse there than elsewhere? Mar 12 14:18:08 some people might be doing much more if their opinion was even considered Mar 12 14:18:13 * lupine_85 really doesn't think the burden of maintaining debian/ directories and rpm sources is something that anyone wants to shoulder Mar 12 14:18:19 jesus. Mar 12 14:18:19 making things work in the open-source world is also a matter of openness Mar 12 14:18:49 and as such you cut out a large parte of community involvement by forcing things down the throat, changing things that were working Mar 12 14:18:50 I think Nokia want to implement a more robust DRM system tbh... Mar 12 14:19:11 * lupine_85 notes the N900 doesn't have a TPM chip, so whatever they build won't work on it :) Mar 12 14:19:12 BUT... Mar 12 14:19:19 Open-source and DRM don't go well together. ;p Mar 12 14:19:21 ~seen konttori Mar 12 14:19:22 konttori <~konttori@Maemo/OS/konttori> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 1d 19h 26m 53s ago, saying: 'now: mass effect time (just finished 1 for the second time, about to start 2 for the second time)'. Mar 12 14:19:34 the point is: yes, I could be helping if I worked for it hard enough. BUT I'm even better than the people that will just drop off from the ship because of that inconsiderate decision. Mar 12 14:19:37 lupine_85: it's part of the processor Mar 12 14:19:46 oh, is it built into the core the n900 has? Mar 12 14:19:52 just not activated? Mar 12 14:20:12 asking for neighbour cells they lynched him ;-P Mar 12 14:20:33 Stskeeps: IIRC there is a secure and non-secure variant of the proc Mar 12 14:20:40 Stskeeps: sure we hace the secure one? Mar 12 14:20:49 the secure one also has all sorts of hw encryption Mar 12 14:21:08 good morning everyone! Mar 12 14:21:13 DRM is not about security, security is making your machine obey you, DRM is making your machine disobey you Mar 12 14:21:16 Just give me some turn by turn navigation and I'll be happy. Mar 12 14:21:20 ptl, I agree. Mar 12 14:22:26 I can't understand why there's no control of the media player via the headset though. Mar 12 14:22:31 ooooh, this word again. DRM :-(( oooouch Mar 12 14:22:36 It has a button, why not make it at least get to the next track. Mar 12 14:22:37 * DocScrutinizer runs vomiting Mar 12 14:22:44 * TigerTael holds the bucket for DocScrutinizer Mar 12 14:23:11 as long as the hardware functions (gps, radio, wireless) in 'open' mode, I'll be happy Mar 12 14:23:16 And I've heard some bad stories about AD2P/Bluetooth headsets. Mar 12 14:23:23 * ptl thinks that DocScrutinizer is the one which added the protection on this channel so that he mistyped this world three times Mar 12 14:23:23 lupine_85, pretty much the same for me. Mar 12 14:23:30 * ptl thinks DocScrutinizer DRM-protected the channel Mar 12 14:23:34 And I like not having to hack my device for root access, thanks. Mar 12 14:23:55 eh, TPM will give you root, just as with selinux and apparmour, root won't be able to do everything Mar 12 14:24:26 what's TPM anyway? In portuguese it means PMS. Mar 12 14:24:31 lol Mar 12 14:24:37 Trusted Platform Module. Mar 12 14:24:43 it's about as nice as PMS ;) Mar 12 14:24:46 ;/ Mar 12 14:24:47 aka fritz chip Mar 12 14:25:05 aka large pile of bullshit Mar 12 14:25:11 heh. also: 'Acronym for Theme Park Mentality. A pejorative term describing a park that has excessively strict rules, especially safety regulations.' Mar 12 14:25:26 apt Mar 12 14:25:34 now with super cow powers? Mar 12 14:25:54 I moved away from Android to get away from the closed hardware/kernel sources. Mar 12 14:26:04 And the shoddy hardware from HTC. ;/ Mar 12 14:26:12 ~botsnack Mar 12 14:26:12 :), DocScrutinizer Mar 12 14:26:20 mostly, I dislike java ;) Mar 12 14:26:28 lupine_85, I concur. Mar 12 14:26:41 google's approach to the linux kernel is also something I'm not fond of Mar 12 14:26:42 and no X! Mar 12 14:26:53 lupine_85, again, I agree. Mar 12 14:27:09 they could at least have a compatibility layer... or they would if they were interested in a /linux/ mobile phone Mar 12 14:27:09 * ptl +1 Mar 12 14:27:14 ah well Mar 12 14:27:23 Ctrl+shift+x straight to terminal, yay. Mar 12 14:27:25 and android creates a new uid for every process! Mar 12 14:27:40 that might be taking process separation a bit far ;) Mar 12 14:27:43 lupine_85: but it does not change that android phones are linux mobile phones Mar 12 14:27:54 it is just Android/Linux not GNU/Linux Mar 12 14:27:58 Linux powered phones... Mar 12 14:28:00 no, they're mobile phones that run a branch of of the linux kernel Mar 12 14:28:11 android was recently expelled from linux Mar 12 14:28:11 lupine_85: so is n900 Mar 12 14:28:19 mm Mar 12 14:28:23 ptl, eh? Mar 12 14:28:28 didn't yoy know? Mar 12 14:28:28 difference in attitude, though :) Mar 12 14:28:34 read the changelog of kernel 2.6.33 Mar 12 14:28:40 n900 is mobile phone that run a branch of the linux kernel - thats your words lupine_85 Mar 12 14:28:42 and the accompanying article to which it links Mar 12 14:29:01 ptl: you are not right Mar 12 14:29:01 ptl, I don't have time for that, about to leave work. Mar 12 14:29:14 TigerTael: ok Mar 12 14:29:18 the nokia people at least try with some degree of seriousness to get their code into upstream Mar 12 14:29:24 hrw: what's the wrong part? Mar 12 14:29:25 I guess android is better described as a fork than a branch Mar 12 14:29:29 ptl, but I will look into it further later. Mar 12 14:29:49 'android was recently expelled from linux' is bullshit. the true is 'some android code was dropped from staging part of mainline Linux kernel tree' Mar 12 14:30:09 ah. Mar 12 14:30:14 hrw: I think that was close enough Mar 12 14:30:25 Well I'm just sick of HTC's attitude and Google's attitude for the most part. Mar 12 14:30:34 ptl: nokia does not use mainline linux and has own changes which did not even get to staging area Mar 12 14:30:48 * RST38h got badly bitten by C# Mar 12 14:31:02 But I think 'expelled' is a better word than dropped, because there were some controversy on that. Mar 12 14:31:05 hrw: yeah, linux-omap Mar 12 14:31:08 * RST38h now hates languages where everything is a reference Mar 12 14:31:29 RST38h: I hate direct manipulation of pointers too Mar 12 14:31:40 Fucking confusing, no idea why they say it is "easier for beginners" Mar 12 14:31:40 ptl: the question is will n900 be ever supported by mainline linux-omap or linux/torvalds trees Mar 12 14:31:58 ptl: n8x0 was not and I do not know do they are now Mar 12 14:32:01 ptl: There is no direct manipulation of pointers. There is indirect manipulation of pointers and it is confusing Mar 12 14:32:10 Is someone willing to put the effort into getting patches pushed upstream? Mar 12 14:32:26 SpeedEvil: which patches? Mar 12 14:32:26 moo hrw, btw Mar 12 14:32:29 'it compiles and works' isn't enough to automatically get it upstream Mar 12 14:32:37 SpeedEvil, damn. Mar 12 14:32:56 SpeedEvil: extracting patches from nokia kernel drop is useless as internally they have changes for that code present Mar 12 14:33:21 really? Mar 12 14:33:37 hrw: that doesn't in principle mean that you couldn't extract any given patch, and submit it for upstream Mar 12 14:33:42 SpeedEvil: so you spend 3h on getting nice patch, send it to ML just to get info from someone@nokia: this patch is useless, we dropped half of that code already in favour of other solutions Mar 12 14:33:42 so when I apt-get source kernel and build it, I get something that's different to the kernel on my n900? Mar 12 14:33:57 lupine_85: you will get same Mar 12 14:34:05 good :) Mar 12 14:34:14 2.6.28-something Mar 12 14:34:33 which already is quite old but n900 will rather never get newer one Mar 12 14:34:41 not from nokia at least Mar 12 14:34:48 hrw: I was meaning you don't in principle have to be nokia to get n900 patches upstream. Mar 12 14:34:54 SpeedEvil: I know Mar 12 14:34:58 k Mar 12 14:34:58 RST38h, what do you expected from a Java copy ? :D Mar 12 14:35:09 it's a bit odd that they went with 28, when 27 is the long-term-support one, but never mind Mar 12 14:35:38 hrw, .33 runs decently on n8x0 it looks like Mar 12 14:35:56 Stskeeps: nice. finally Mar 12 14:36:02 What kernel does Mer use? Mar 12 14:36:38 hrw, and tony lindgren is patching in things Mar 12 14:37:12 VDVsx: well...no, nothing. Mar 12 14:37:29 Stskeeps: who submitted patches? Mar 12 14:37:32 VDVsx: But I really wonder how those indians get their code to work now Mar 12 14:37:36 RST38h, and you can add M$ to that :D Mar 12 14:37:55 VDVsx: Given that the followin stuff creates an instant fuckup: Mar 12 14:38:12 lol Mar 12 14:38:12 VDVsx: List A,B; B=...; A=B; B.Clear(); Mar 12 14:38:12 hrw, about to board so you'll have to dig yourself Mar 12 14:38:21 ok Mar 12 14:39:01 RST38h, ... fail :) Mar 12 14:39:27 RST38h, references, so that's normal Mar 12 14:39:29 bilboed: And a nasty fail, for that. Go explain this from the common sense point of view... Mar 12 14:39:39 VDVsx: Yes, but they do not LOOK like references :) Mar 12 14:40:00 if you were a Java coders they will look, I guess Mar 12 14:40:14 * VDVsx doesn't knows nothing about c# Mar 12 14:40:16 VDVsx: I doubt it, especially considering that ints, for example, are not references Mar 12 14:40:58 it's got to have primitives Mar 12 14:41:17 like in Java, Int and Integer probably Mar 12 14:41:35 Stskeeps: so far most of code came from @nokia - nice Mar 12 14:41:54 hrw: And expected too Mar 12 14:42:39 yes Mar 12 14:42:43 * hrw -> food now Mar 12 14:42:54 Stskeeps: thx for informations Mar 12 14:43:11 hrw: alecrim did work too (mamona) Mar 12 14:58:46 (TPM) http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5115609628556940516&q=trusted+computing Mar 12 14:59:18 DocScrutinizer: trusted computing isn't only about drm, thoug Mar 12 14:59:20 h Mar 12 14:59:53 it's about your computer trusting you Mar 12 14:59:55 ... Mar 12 15:06:29 hrw: now that you said that nokia's N900 kernel is not as pristine, do you think (or know) Meego will be better in this regard? Mar 12 15:06:42 ptl: why it has to? Mar 12 15:06:59 because name change? Mar 12 15:07:03 because it's supposed to be 'more open'? Mar 12 15:07:12 meego comes with a promise Mar 12 15:07:14 base system will be more open Mar 12 15:07:28 is anything more basic than the kernel? Mar 12 15:07:29 ja Mar 12 15:07:29 and there is no definition of 'base system' Mar 12 15:08:07 but Stskeeps keeps (pun very much intended!) saying harmattan will be meego base + _proprietaru nokia shitz_ Mar 12 15:08:32 on call... Mar 12 15:10:16 anyone here applying for one of those new nokia / meego / maemo jobs? Mar 12 15:10:59 maybe in $some years Mar 12 15:12:13 No. I fear that applying to such a job would corrupt me into a corporate-sold pro-proprietary developer. Mar 12 15:12:24 Mar 12 15:16:38 Hi, can i import/export the RSS feeds from the standard RSS app at fremantle? Mar 12 15:17:13 pupnik, applying ? I don't have 10+ of expertise :D Mar 12 15:18:04 i hope they get some great people Mar 12 15:18:10 werz ma firmwarz :o Mar 12 15:19:17 I hope they get smart, productive and pro-open-source people Mar 12 15:19:37 and then let them write closed source? Mar 12 15:19:37 :D Mar 12 15:20:52 well, that would be better if they get pro-closed-source to write closed-source Mar 12 15:20:59 because the developers would pressure for openness Mar 12 15:21:17 I have the feeling they'll never go completely opensource Mar 12 15:21:24 hmm Mar 12 15:23:16 Hello? Mar 12 15:23:20 Hai? Mar 12 15:23:38 I never used the RSS reader so dont' ask me :P Mar 12 15:23:45 heh Mar 12 15:24:00 I want to keep a list of my feeds in sync with google reader Mar 12 15:24:47 Hello All ! Mar 12 15:25:09 register is now set again ? Mar 12 15:26:08 * pupnik can't type Mar 12 15:29:30 * Khertan see pupnik typping Mar 12 15:29:34 pupnik: you're referring to what exactly? I might be interested Mar 12 15:30:02 * Khertan see at least the result of what pupnik type on his keyboard Mar 12 15:30:33 :) bad joke, sorry Mar 12 15:32:14 Ha-ha Mar 12 15:33:26 Bash.org? :P Mar 12 15:35:02 just read in a forum that someone dreamed about his incoming N900 Mar 12 15:35:10 and another guy replied saying he dreamed he was a modem. Mar 12 15:35:17 and ? Mar 12 15:35:33 well, that's unusual, don't you think? Mar 12 15:35:53 i once had a dream that.... Mar 12 15:35:54 :-P Mar 12 15:36:12 * SpeedEvil has dreamed of tetris. Mar 12 15:36:13 btw, the n900 IMAP client seems to be working quite happily Mar 12 15:36:31 I keep meaning to submit bugs for 'blocks' Mar 12 15:36:34 the only problem/frustration that i've really had thus far with mine is that you can't set an alarm if the appointment is for the same day Mar 12 15:36:37 It has poor collision detection. Mar 12 15:36:41 And no scoretable. Mar 12 15:37:29 and poor controls Mar 12 15:37:30 :-P Mar 12 15:38:57 http://bash.org/?330261 <<< funny Mar 12 15:39:47 I had with the videocall thingy. I wanted that because my mother has a smartphone (although she is computer-illiterate) and she lives in another city. My 3G carrier also has a 10-minute-free videocall on my plan, so it'd be nice if I could use the front camera to show her the stuff in my house. Mar 12 15:39:50 lol Mar 12 15:42:59 aren't we supposed to have video support in gtalk and skype sometime soon? Mar 12 15:44:49 in 1.2 IIRC Mar 12 15:45:02 s/IIRC/in theory/ Mar 12 15:45:02 bilboed-tp meant: in 1.2 in theory Mar 12 15:45:52 hi, is it save to do an rsync -rav from one nokia n900's /home/user to another for backup/restore? Mar 12 15:46:09 hmm Mar 12 15:46:24 ca I only ever have say one "phone" shortcut on the desktop? Mar 12 15:46:36 ie I can't have one "phone" shortcut per desktop? Mar 12 15:46:37 :-( Mar 12 15:46:37 josephnexus: yes, gtalk works, I even made a video in youtube showing how to do that. Amsn also works with video. But I am talking about 3G videocalls... Mar 12 15:46:57 yeah Mar 12 15:47:03 i saw your video Mar 12 15:47:04 :-P Mar 12 15:47:08 a lame video Mar 12 15:47:10 sorry Mar 12 15:47:11 but I want to be able to initiate the call Mar 12 15:47:13 I'll improve Mar 12 15:47:13 the video was epic Mar 12 15:47:14 :-D Mar 12 15:47:24 me too Mar 12 15:48:26 tybollt: http://wiki.maemo.org/Customizing_Maemo#Shortcut_to_multiple_desktops Mar 12 15:49:41 DocScrutinizer: you forgot the derogatort ~lart tybollt for not searching before asking simple questions ;) Mar 12 15:49:48 derogatory* Mar 12 15:49:54 doc: thanks Mar 12 15:49:57 i have an application that crashes when run on the n900. it is not producing a core dump howerver. why not? can i enable it somehow? Mar 12 15:52:24 aboyer: catchsegv? Mar 12 15:53:30 Hmm, to run or not to run. That is the question. Whether 'tis nobler to suffer the strings and arrows of outrageous fortune or die in the pits of tmo. Mar 12 15:53:47 where are the .desktop files placement configured? I want to do that too without changing the telephone application original desktop file Mar 12 15:54:19 ptl: /etc/xdg/menus/hildon.menu and /etc/xdg/menus/hildon/applications.menu Mar 12 15:54:26 ptl: Or, install Catorise ;-) Mar 12 15:55:26 DocScrutinizer: thx, but it does not produce any core files... Mar 12 15:55:39 I installed Catorise Mar 12 15:55:46 hmm, maybe see 'ulimit -c" Mar 12 15:55:59 what does it have to do with this case? Mar 12 15:56:14 Jaffa, please run, I can campaign for you and smash every single TMO troll :D Mar 12 15:56:28 DocScrutinizer: are the files store somewhere else than the current directory?/ Mar 12 15:56:28 dunno if I can accomplish last part :D Mar 12 15:56:32 hard tasks Mar 12 15:56:58 aboyer: sorry dunno off top of my head Mar 12 15:57:02 cd ~user; gfind . -type f -exec grep rtcom-call-ui.desktop {} /dev/null \; Mar 12 15:57:14 DocScrutinizer: thx anyways... Mar 12 15:57:50 ptl: You can see how it does it Mar 12 15:57:51 aboyer: in the current dir, but you might need something like ulimit -c unlimited before running your app Mar 12 15:58:00 VDVsx: Smashing does sound handy Mar 12 15:59:16 (ulimit afffect the current process and the child processes it's not a global thing ... general theory I don't own a maemo device) Mar 12 15:59:55 * ShadowJK wonders if crash-reporter does anything useful for devs Mar 12 16:00:02 Jaffa: ah, ok. But reading the source code of catorise is overkill, I think. I'll try simpler ways Mar 12 16:00:13 otoh im pretty sure the dev guide has a chapter or two on debugging Mar 12 16:00:18 Indeed, I am already trying... gfind ftew Mar 12 16:00:20 *ftw Mar 12 16:00:52 is supertux in early developing or is it just N900 that have an outdated version? Mar 12 16:01:02 has* Mar 12 16:01:15 development* Mar 12 16:03:32 * noobmonk3y is almost at the weekend.......... Mar 12 16:05:03 ptl: What's the specific question then, and I might be able to answer it? Mar 12 16:07:01 Jaffa: just as tybollt asked, I want a 'sticky' phone application on every desktop without adding the application to every desktop. So I am searching for a way to copy the .desktop file of the telephone app, modifying it for X-Multiple-Desktops and then adding to my N900 desktop. Mar 12 16:11:08 ptl: X-Multiple-Desktops? Mar 12 16:11:53 ptl: Way I'd do it is copy the stub catorise has created (because of bug 8111) and then add it to each desktop. But that means adding it up to 4 times... Mar 12 16:23:01 shit Mar 12 16:23:16 is there a tool which records calls by headset? Mar 12 16:23:27 recaller records only mic ones Mar 12 16:23:50 Jaffa: X-Multiple-Desktop is a .desktop file option Mar 12 16:25:34 poor noobs > http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=47216 Mar 12 16:25:40 ptl: Supported by hildon-desktop? Mar 12 16:26:11 Jaffa: seems to, http://wiki.maemo.org/Customizing_Maemo#Shortcut_to_multiple_desktops -- btw, I confused the name, it's just X-Multiple (=true) Mar 12 16:26:59 ptl: Interesting. Anyway, because of bug 8111, I doubt you'll be able to do it on one of the X-Maemo-Prestarted apps Mar 12 16:30:11 isn't this bug solved? I just launched the telephone app about 10 times from different places (catorise, desktop) Mar 12 16:30:38 ~bug 8111 Mar 12 16:32:04 yeah, it's open Mar 12 16:32:16 but I couldn't replicate it here Mar 12 16:41:13 hrw: best file a bug with recaller Mar 12 16:41:24 cause it should be trivial with pulseaudio Mar 12 16:41:36 (there's a monitor device for each input) Mar 12 16:42:41 satmd: good idea Mar 12 17:20:29 ptl: bug 8328 contained a workaround. Catorise creates catorise-rtcom-call-ui.desktop which just uses DBus to launch the single instance which must exist in the menu for it to work Mar 12 17:25:45 Jaffa: thanks for the info... :) Mar 12 17:26:01 my n900 protection just arrived Mar 12 17:27:52 body guards? Mar 12 17:28:46 no, rubber case and screen protector Mar 12 17:34:57 <_gpg_> hello Mar 12 17:37:01 just installed it Mar 12 17:37:12 <_gpg_> I have just started reading https://garage.maemo.org/projects/glmemperf/ and i found the tool versy interesting, id like to know if such a tool is available for opelgles 1.1 Mar 12 17:37:33 <_gpg_> my aim is to benchmark pvrtc Mar 12 17:39:43 howdy all Mar 12 17:42:39 anyone know why i might be getting this error: insmod: cannot insert 'pl2303.ko': Unknown symbol in module (-1): No such file or directory Mar 12 17:42:57 why i try insmod pl2303.ko on an n810 Mar 12 17:43:06 *when Mar 12 17:46:23 ok, have a nice weekend everyone Mar 12 17:46:58 yeah you too Mar 12 17:47:17 stupid question: (you'll need the SDL, SDL_ttf, RakNet and rudeconfig libraries) <- will this app run on a n900? Mar 12 17:51:10 you have sdl and sdl_ttf on the n900 Mar 12 17:51:17 lemme check this raknet and rudeconfig Mar 12 17:51:38 couldn't find them Mar 12 17:52:01 hence you'll have to recompile them for the n900 besides the app Mar 12 17:54:51 ptl: http://bit.ly/viU44 - raknet src and rudeconfig are available. for an experienced java/python developer not knowing much about tux - how much time does such a port require? Mar 12 17:54:53 any guesses? Mar 12 17:57:21 scr4ve: does it compile cleanly on linux? it might not be to much, maybe you just need to download them on scratchbox and make a package for them. Have you read the maemo 5 sdk guide? Mar 12 17:58:12 ptl: it does. sounds great - haven't read the guide yet as coding only with python /qt on the n900 yet ;) Mar 12 17:58:54 just curious because the game is awesome somehow. Mar 12 17:59:10 even with python, there are some subleties Mar 12 17:59:34 like running the script under run-standalone.sh so that it gets the UI improvements of Hildon Mar 12 18:00:00 yep. though its pretty easy anyway. Mar 12 18:00:01 what is the game? IP Curve? Mar 12 18:00:06 yep Mar 12 18:00:32 quite popular in german - something like snake with multiplayer mode, really funny. Mar 12 18:11:45 /usr/bin/install: will not overwrite just-created `/home/ogun/project/sources/clutter_0_8/debian/tmp//usr/include/clutter-0.8/clutter/clutter-version.h' with `clutter-version.h' Mar 12 18:12:10 Trying to build the clutter 0.8 from gitorious. Guessing it's either me or autotools being stupid. Mar 12 18:14:20 smarphone with MeeGo and intel atom.. http://www.gsmarena.com/lg_gw990-3164.php Mar 12 18:15:36 SecondaryVideo call camera Mar 12 18:15:40 so it has videocall 3G? Mar 12 18:17:01 is has 512 MB RAM Mar 12 18:17:04 *it Mar 12 18:17:05 woot Mar 12 18:18:15 if someone remembers, i destroyed usb connector on my n900 1 month ago and took it to repair center. and guess what? they called me today and said it's fixed. Mar 12 18:18:33 tybollt: what did i say? i said exact opposite, harmattan is debian Mar 12 18:20:10 ptl: and see cpu, is a atom and not arm.. Mar 12 18:20:43 ptl: this a important and interesting of the merge of nokia and intel.. we will see nokia with atom processors.. eheh Mar 12 18:20:54 -.- Mar 12 18:21:46 nokia and intel are not merging Mar 12 18:21:56 they are cooperating on a joint project Mar 12 18:22:22 are we still having that discussion? Mar 12 18:22:55 o_O 112 pages in usb connector thread Mar 12 18:23:30 interestingly, they are about equal size turnover wise Mar 12 18:24:41 slonopotamus: and does it work now? Mar 12 18:25:22 Stskeeps: not. Just notice that meego are in right way ;-) Mar 12 18:30:51 ptl, err... otherwise it wouldn't count fixed. i'll take in on monday Mar 12 18:33:33 when I take my n900 out of my pocket, it looks like it disconnects my caller Mar 12 18:34:28 when the phone is on the table this doesn't happen Mar 12 18:35:15 is there any reason why this could happen? Mar 12 18:37:23 maybe the accelerometer is disconnecting the call Mar 12 18:37:40 hmm - weird problem with my 'conversations' app Mar 12 18:37:45 maybe it confuses with the gesture that disconnects the call when you lay it face down Mar 12 18:37:52 it's not actually showing the conversations Mar 12 18:37:56 Djkrikke: was the screen locked when it's in your pocket? Mar 12 18:38:07 well, it'll show the index of conversations, but not the messages in one Mar 12 18:38:29 it's also possible your thumb is hitting the disconnect button on the screen when you pull the phone out Mar 12 18:39:09 im sure it didnt hit the disconnect button Mar 12 18:39:15 the screen was locked yes Mar 12 18:40:43 can i disable the accelerometer on laying down? Mar 12 18:42:37 good question, I dunno Mar 12 18:45:34 Djkrikke, you did hit disconnect button. there was a related bug in bigzie, but it is WONTFIX Mar 12 18:46:40 does anyone even know what the conversations application actually is, to give me a starting point for fixing this? Mar 12 18:50:50 aha! Mar 12 18:50:53 fixxxed Mar 12 18:51:08 how? what? Mar 12 18:51:17 Stskeeps: d'oh, my bad. Then that was perhaps Tomaszd that said that then? Mar 12 18:51:29 ive got an incoming call and disconnected. what was that wontfix buga. Mar 12 18:51:43 *bug? Mar 12 18:53:03 when I optified microb-engine, I ymlinked to the wrong location Mar 12 18:53:04 duh Mar 12 18:55:18 who told about the wontfix bug? Mar 12 18:56:12 slonopotamus, can you describe the bug? Mar 12 18:59:05 slonopotamus: 15:55 who told about the wontfix bug? | slonopotamus, can you describe the bug? Mar 12 19:01:08 lol . . . my old middle school is switching to iPads for textbooks. Mar 12 19:01:17 :V Mar 12 19:01:18 ptl, very often accidental call rejects when pulling n900 out of pocket when it is placed upside down (natural position, when you pull it out and take to ear, it is placed correctlly) Mar 12 19:04:04 craaap Mar 12 19:04:18 okay, no more disconnects, moved to room with better coverage Mar 12 19:08:06 GAN900: o0 really? Mar 12 19:08:34 slonopotamus: so that's what I said to Djkrikke, due to the 'turnoff' accelerometer gesture Mar 12 19:08:48 but I couldn't locate the bug Mar 12 19:10:01 hmm... 1 moment, afair, it's among my voted bugs Mar 12 19:11:02 okay slonopotamus, so the problem is really the turnoff gesture and not the disconnect button? Mar 12 19:13:35 ~seen konttori Mar 12 19:13:40 konttori <~konttori@Maemo/OS/konttori> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 2d 21m 11s ago, saying: 'now: mass effect time (just finished 1 for the second time, about to start 2 for the second time)'. Mar 12 19:13:50 Djkrikke, the problem is that (0. have screen disabled 1. put finger on disconnect button. 2. pull it out (thus triggering screen enable) 3. remove finger) rejects call. Mar 12 19:14:25 in #2 'it out' == 'n900 out of pocket' Mar 12 19:14:26 ok thats clear, thanks for the explanation Mar 12 19:15:40 it was no clear to me, is there a disconnect button on the N900? Mar 12 19:15:59 there isn't even a connect button for calls... I have to call the telephone app on the device... isn't it? Mar 12 19:16:19 bug 5982 Mar 12 19:16:29 ... Mar 12 19:16:33 infobot, ? Mar 12 19:17:06 Djkrikke, https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5982 Mar 12 19:17:45 ~bug 5982 Mar 12 19:17:49 ~bugs 5982 Mar 12 19:17:54 i was wrong, it isn't WONTFIX. it's just low priority and comments are not promising. Mar 12 19:18:00 povbot: bug 666 Mar 12 19:18:21 povbot: #666 Mar 12 19:20:09 where is jeremiah? our debmaster? Mar 12 19:20:18 ~poke DocScrutinizer Mar 12 19:20:19 * infobot cuts down a small tree, sneaks up behind DocScrutinizer, pokes DocScrutinizer repeatedly, hilarity ensues. Mar 12 19:20:45 poor tree.... Mar 12 19:21:03 why is there no python-dev package on maemo? Mar 12 19:21:22 ask the pymaemo guys Mar 12 19:21:33 so, infobot is alive, just doesn't react to bug numbers :/ Mar 12 19:22:00 infobot *never* reacted to any bugnumbers Mar 12 19:22:05 I think that another bot job Mar 12 19:22:12 *that's Mar 12 19:22:17 povbot did Mar 12 19:22:18 povbot IIRC Mar 12 19:22:25 thopiekar: > apt-cache search python-dev Mar 12 19:22:26 python-dev - Header files and a static library for Python (default) Mar 12 19:22:43 o.O! Mar 12 19:22:45 thopiekar, http://maemo.org/packages/view/python-dev/ Mar 12 19:22:50 DocScrutinizer, details... :) Mar 12 19:23:01 haven't found it on my N800.. Mar 12 19:23:20 thopiekar, http://maemo.org/packages is handy for that Mar 12 19:23:21 ah Mar 12 19:23:26 ~tell slonopotamus about docscrutnizer Mar 12 19:23:49 ~tell slonopotamus about docscrutinizer Mar 12 19:23:55 thopiekar, did you search in the sdk repo ? Mar 12 19:23:56 VDVsx: Not Found - The requested URL /packages was not found on this server. Mar 12 19:24:01 no Mar 12 19:24:12 slonopotamus: so is that enough detail? Mar 12 19:24:21 * thopiekar is atm freshing up the canola packages.. Mar 12 19:24:45 DocScrutinizer, jOERG. okay. Mar 12 19:24:46 thopiekar, add a slash at the end of the url ; Mar 12 19:25:15 same here.. Mar 12 19:25:22 ptl, yeah, I don't get it. Mar 12 19:25:46 maybe a issue of konqueror.. Mar 12 19:25:47 mom Mar 12 19:26:33 yes... konqueror makes a www.maemo.org of maemo.org :/ Mar 12 19:26:45 thank you VDVsx Mar 12 19:27:45 thopiekar: not here Mar 12 19:28:20 DocScrutinizer: ? Mar 12 19:28:43 my konqueror works great with above link Mar 12 19:30:33 moo all Mar 12 19:31:08 moo RST38h Mar 12 19:32:28 * slonopotamus yawns Mar 12 19:32:42 awwww..... Mar 12 19:34:24 [2010-03-12 19:13:35] * #maemo :Cannot send to channel Mar 12 19:34:33 kkito: see topic Mar 12 19:34:40 DocScrutinizer, my konqueror will konquer your konqueror! Mar 12 19:34:43 on my n900, what does the 2.5 under the bars and to the left of my battery icon mean? Mar 12 19:35:05 <`0660> edge Mar 12 19:35:15 <`0660> 2.5G Mar 12 19:35:15 ah, so that's the tech used for data? Mar 12 19:35:16 ok Mar 12 19:35:25 http://toyotasimulator.com/ Mar 12 19:35:28 yessss Mar 12 19:35:59 the maemo sdk - gui installer isn't working for me (UbuntuLucid 10.4) Mar 12 19:36:02 http://pastebin.com/HcE3aHWJ Mar 12 19:36:39 when can we expect qt 4.6 for maemo 5? Mar 12 19:36:47 RST38h, doesn't wonk on n800. there was supposed to be some amounnt of flash? Mar 12 19:40:42 kkito: (and any other users with * #maemo :Cannot send to channel issue): /query crashanddie and ask for guidance :-) Mar 12 19:47:16 slono: try it on desktop Mar 12 19:47:27 slono: it is a large flash widget I guess Mar 12 20:11:28 hi Mar 12 20:21:39 I don't know if this is the right place for this question but anyway: I'm using QTcreator (download from meego.com) and has support just for C++. Are plans for add support for Python on QTcreator? Mar 12 20:21:54 ohh sorry, was question for meego chat.. Mar 12 20:37:23 it quiet in here Mar 12 20:40:12 NOISE! Mar 12 20:51:12 am I right in saying that the N900 charges faster with the charger than through USB? Mar 12 20:51:31 yes, charger is 1000mA, USB only 500mA Mar 12 20:51:42 kk :> Mar 12 20:59:35 the shortcut to enable browser mode is CTRL+SHIFT+O right? Mar 12 21:01:29 Funnyface: Anything should charge faster off Charger then USB Mar 12 21:05:25 konttori_work: Ping Mar 12 21:09:39 X-Fade, Ping? Mar 12 21:09:54 I guess you're not here, but maybe... Mar 12 21:10:12 Any test.maemo.org admins about? Mar 12 21:10:47 Anyone else about? :) Mar 12 21:11:00 * AndrewFBlack needs ideas for a new theme Mar 12 21:11:28 AndrewFBlack, White on black? Mar 12 21:11:40 AndrewFBlack, How about earthy brown? Mar 12 21:12:16 i'm here Mar 12 21:12:17 :-P Mar 12 21:12:17 dneary: I have a white on black on in devel called Buildon I was going to use it for a project that is on hold right now Mar 12 21:12:36 was temped to go all nerding and do a Star Trek one Mar 12 21:12:44 nerdy i mean Mar 12 21:12:51 dneary, can I help ? (guess not, but maybe :)) Mar 12 21:15:22 VDVsx, I'm looking for my password for the mysql database on test.maemo.org Mar 12 21:15:34 I'd assumed I could access it without a password locally Mar 12 21:16:00 how do you bring up the on screen keyboard Mar 12 21:16:02 ah, no rights there Mar 12 21:18:22 hmm, any news on a "share via command" sharing provider? Mar 12 21:32:33 redeeman: theres a "sharing cli" or something project on garage.maemo.org that should have some code up Mar 12 21:38:56 http://gizmodo.com/5492176/say-goodbye-to-unlimited-wireless-data-plans Mar 12 21:39:02 * RST38h laughs diabolically Mar 12 21:40:23 :( Mar 12 21:40:59 "Lenovo CEO says mobile internet products will soon account for '70 to 80 percent' of sales" <--- oh, finally, the businesses got smart and recognized that ThinkPads are no longer ThinkPads but Lenovos =) Mar 12 21:42:00 Now if only Lenovo would get smart and offer a ThinkPad with a decent screen resolution. Mar 12 21:42:09 moo, derf Mar 12 21:42:38 I love my 15" 1600x1200 T60p. Mar 12 21:42:41 ah, the sooner they die the better, given how crappy their hardware is Mar 12 21:42:43 I want 2048*1536 12" Mar 12 21:42:47 But I can't upgrade it, because they no longer sell anything like that. Mar 12 21:43:17 Yeah. Mar 12 21:43:26 100dpiscreens for laptops is _broken_ Mar 12 21:43:47 140 or so would be more sane Mar 12 21:44:43 RST38h: I've had a lot fewer problems with the T60p than I did with the T20, which was made back when they were still owned by IBM. Mar 12 21:45:30 derf: I am daily designing various ways of getting rid of T61p Mar 12 21:45:56 derf: It is the least usable laptop I ever used (old Dell Latitudes included) Mar 12 21:45:57 RST38h: I can offer you my solution. Mar 12 21:46:01 RST38h: Sit on it. Mar 12 21:46:06 I definitely don't agree there. Mar 12 21:46:13 And I had an old Dell Latitude. Mar 12 21:46:21 SpeedEvil: Does not work. In fact, I know a guy who stood on it Mar 12 21:46:35 ebay Mar 12 21:47:03 derf: Connecting to projector screws it up for ~5 minutes as it is trying to find the right resolution Mar 12 21:47:21 derf: Removing from the cradle - another 5 minutes. Placing back into cradle - blue screen of death Mar 12 21:47:32 Cradle? Mar 12 21:47:41 You mean a docking station? Mar 12 21:47:44 derf: The LCD is of so low quality that I am using external one 100% of time Mar 12 21:47:51 derf: Yes, whatever this thing is called Mar 12 21:47:58 I've never used it with one of those. Mar 12 21:48:05 And I've had no problems switching to projectors. Mar 12 21:48:09 derf: + it is 16x9, probably usable for movies, absolute shit for work Mar 12 21:48:23 And mine is 4:3. Mar 12 21:48:29 * RST38h can go on about this for hours =) Mar 12 21:48:31 And I _love_ the LCD. Mar 12 21:48:49 maybe you have got some (surprisingly) decent model Mar 12 21:49:02 it is not possible to love T61p's LCD. It is worse than the one in R500 Mar 12 21:49:13 I would believe it. Mar 12 21:49:17 I got the screen I did for a reason. Mar 12 21:49:34 But, as I said, they don't sell anything like it anymore. Mar 12 21:49:43 You couldn't even get it on the T61p. Mar 12 21:49:51 Apparently the glass maker went out of business. Mar 12 21:49:57 * RST38h hopes for the soonish removal of "like it" from that sentence Mar 12 21:50:06 I had a t61p Mar 12 21:50:19 didn't notice anything wrong with it Mar 12 21:50:23 I have a T400 now Mar 12 21:50:25 derf: ah, almost forgot, battery died in 3 months Mar 12 21:50:32 derf: just stopped working Mar 12 21:50:56 The one in my HP actually partially exploded. Mar 12 21:51:02 coool Mar 12 21:51:06 ! Mar 12 21:51:11 It was no longer the same shape as when I had inserted it into the slot. Mar 12 21:51:15 nail it and finish the process! Mar 12 21:51:20 It still kind of worked, though! Mar 12 21:51:41 For about 15 minutes. Mar 12 21:51:57 and then..... yes? Mar 12 21:52:06 Well, then it had to be recharged. Mar 12 21:52:12 pity. Mar 12 21:52:48 This was when I first discovered that the batteries were always under a separate warranty from the rest of the machine. Mar 12 21:53:03 One that did not actually last 3 years. Mar 12 21:55:08 Mmm, stinkpads. Totally agree that the T61 has an unlovable screen. Mar 12 21:55:38 derf: Same about the display btw Mar 12 21:56:18 The only real complaint I had about the T60p was that after two and a half years, the fan got really noisy. Mar 12 21:56:25 So I called them up and they sent me a replacement. Mar 12 21:57:23 self installable? Mar 12 21:58:18 Yes. Mar 12 21:58:26 interesting Mar 12 21:58:46 I had to tell them I had a Ph.D. in CS before they'd believe that I was qualified to install it, though. Mar 12 21:59:27 * RST38h knows a lot of PhDs in CS who should not be let anywhere near an open computer Mar 12 21:59:52 cs is math Mar 12 22:00:02 Science, where nothing works but everybody knows why. Mar 12 22:00:13 CS students today learn how to toy in java, not programing Mar 12 22:01:09 there's anything else to do with java than toys? Mar 12 22:01:25 nope Mar 12 22:11:39 I don't understand why the abiword on maemo-extras wasn't optified Mar 12 22:12:00 I did a maemo-optify-deb on it and its rootfs usage went from 13.7 MB to 572 kB Mar 12 22:12:17 I think I'll open a bug report for it Mar 12 22:14:38 abiword made it into extras without being optified? Mar 12 22:14:43 that's huge bug Mar 12 22:15:15 Ehehe Mar 12 22:15:33 It also does not seem to work very well =( Mar 12 22:15:35 thanks ptl Mar 12 22:16:16 so 10 people didn't notice it uses almost 14 megs? Mar 12 22:17:01 it seems so... Mar 12 22:17:07 That's a huge chunk of the free space between vanilla-n900 and ssu-no-longer-works... Mar 12 22:17:09 I'll work out and when I get back I'll open the bug report Mar 12 22:18:13 "...has the unusual property of altering the laws of mathematics in its vicinity, causing rounding errors to occur unless calculated using a base-23 system." Mar 12 22:19:12 oh it's only in -devel Mar 12 22:20:10 now THAT's an irony Mar 12 22:20:34 apple added accelerometer to the iPhone to switch screen orientation without buttons Mar 12 22:20:45 and now they added button to turn it off Mar 12 22:21:13 pure genius :) Mar 12 22:22:06 wazd: picture! picture! Mar 12 22:23:04 http://gizmodo.com/5491899/the-ipads-surprise-button-screen-orientation-lock Mar 12 22:23:53 OMG Mar 12 22:23:59 they added MORE BUTTONS! Mar 12 22:25:13 Doesn't sound like apple; I thought they believed in one button(tm) Mar 12 22:25:56 inz: Rumors say that one button is modeled after Steve Jobs' belly button Mar 12 22:26:10 [of course, remember that next time you are clicking it] Mar 12 22:26:14 RST38h: well, they actually changed the functionality of silent switch :) Mar 12 22:26:24 RST38h: but the irony is overwhelming :) Mar 12 22:26:27 RST, haven't used any apple products in ages. Mar 12 22:26:49 wazd: their keyboards have more than one button, I have one and can attest Mar 12 22:28:33 what is the best way to wipe personal data from an nokia n900 before RMAing it? Mar 12 22:28:34 RST38h: screw buttons, they reinvented accelerometer back :D Mar 12 22:29:04 wazd: Wait until they reinvent multitasking... Mar 12 22:33:41 ponyofdeath: flash rootfs and eMMC Mar 12 22:35:13 ponyofdeath: no idea though if there's some sort of call history inside modem, and if so how to clear it then Mar 12 22:38:16 * VDVsx tries to patent "button to turn accelerometer off" Mar 12 22:38:25 damn, already patented by apple :P Mar 12 22:38:56 what? Mar 12 22:39:07 http://gizmodo.com/5491899/the-ipads-surprise-button-screen-orientation-lock Mar 12 22:39:15 they patented it? Mar 12 22:39:24 Ctrl+Shift+I! Prior art! ;) Mar 12 22:39:55 dunno, just joking Mar 12 22:40:11 they patented "slide to unlock", so... Mar 12 22:40:23 the good news is that if apple does it we can rest assured devices to come for the next years will have it (and more buttons is _always_ a good thing) Mar 12 22:40:31 they are using that patent against Nokia and HTC :D Mar 12 22:41:00 how long until patent law blows up and dies? Mar 12 22:41:07 So, no slide-to-unlock in the next tablet/ Mar 12 22:41:08 ? Mar 12 22:41:17 btw, moo :) Mar 12 22:41:30 ptl: Well let us make bets: patent law or health system? Mar 12 22:41:36 javis: moo indeed Mar 12 22:41:43 ptl: which one goes first? =) Mar 12 22:42:00 RST38h, probably the N900 has to leave the US market, since has slide to unlock, lolol Mar 12 22:42:08 same for a couple of droids Mar 12 22:42:11 so silly Mar 12 22:42:12 They've been working on HCR since the early 90's. Mar 12 22:42:26 While efforts to reform patent law are just starting, and going in the wrong direction. Mar 12 22:42:51 RST38h: :( always the weaker Mar 12 22:42:54 VDVsx: there is US market for Nokia phones? Mar 12 22:42:59 "Nokia Asks Judge to Dismiss Apple's Antitrust Claims" :) Mar 12 22:43:19 Hmm...Modest already managed to create a folder on my newly inserted sd card Mar 12 22:43:33 very wrong direction when someone can patent great inventions like slide to unlock Mar 12 22:43:34 "he most recent move comes from Nokia, who seeks to dismiss Apple's antritrust claims using pretty much the same arguments Apple used to counter Psystar's antitrust claims." Mar 12 22:43:35 :D Mar 12 22:45:51 my favorite patent is the one that tries to patent "patent trolls" :D Mar 12 22:45:55 awesome Mar 12 22:46:31 is it possible to have an analogue for the GPL in the patent world? Mar 12 22:46:56 VDVsx: Well, as this wonderful system is starting to intefere with large corporations' business, it will probably get reformed in the next 10-20 years Mar 12 22:47:01 like 'you can't patent that idea and its derivatives, but you can use as you will' Mar 12 22:47:34 and whod use it? Mar 12 22:47:37 VDVsx: Nobody gives a shit about Joe the Innovator, but when it comes to Microsoft or IBM or Google... Mar 12 22:48:22 nid0: whoever wants it Mar 12 22:48:39 I think they can't sue you if use their patents in OSS projects and don't sell anything Mar 12 22:48:51 no company is going to design things and patent them with a "use this for free" patent Mar 12 22:49:02 oo i think they can Mar 12 22:49:22 IBM did something like that Mar 12 22:49:28 derf: I will believe in HCR once it is completed and a person will be able to walk into a hospital and get care, without losing their life savings in a week Mar 12 22:49:29 made some patents available for public use Mar 12 22:49:55 yeah they probably threw 4 or 5 simplistic patents into the wild to look good for PR reasons Mar 12 22:50:05 anyway, they did. Mar 12 22:50:05 derf: before that it is bullshit and the competition of patent law vs health care stands ;) Mar 12 22:50:10 here's the patent of all patents :D :http://boingboing.net/2008/11/17/halliburton-tries-to.html Mar 12 22:50:15 could you imagine the income an IP company like nokia would lose by making their patents freely usable? Mar 12 22:50:19 not a chance Mar 12 22:50:20 probably will be accepted :D Mar 12 22:50:21 it's better than nothing and tells us there is something wrong with patents Mar 12 22:50:32 nid0, they just lose their ability to countersue apple :) Mar 12 22:50:44 what we need is clearly, a patent, patent-testing and patent-stable set of repositories. Mar 12 22:50:48 and make money from every other mobile device manufacture on the planet Mar 12 22:50:54 s/patent-stable/patent-devel (how could I get that wrong?) Mar 12 22:51:08 whats 1 lawsuit when every other mobile there is is paying them royalties Mar 12 22:51:14 mobile company* Mar 12 22:51:43 ugh i try not to think about it.. it just hurts my head Mar 12 22:51:47 nid0, well, as long they don't patent things like slide to unlock Mar 12 22:51:50 oh cooool ovi maps found me Mar 12 22:51:58 where were you? Mar 12 22:54:01 patent-granting, patent-pending and patent-applied would be more appropriate, don't you think? Mar 12 22:54:11 *patent-granted Mar 12 22:54:35 Arif: Outside of the range for which I downloaded maps offline Mar 12 22:54:42 aww Mar 12 22:54:46 just download whole EU Mar 12 22:54:58 Arif: Why would I need EU? Mar 12 22:55:09 US then? Mar 12 22:55:16 I tried to use ovi maps these days Mar 12 22:55:17 Whole US is a 1.1GB ZIP Mar 12 22:55:26 I can't understand it Mar 12 22:55:28 * RST38h just got the states he expects to visit Mar 12 22:55:28 really Mar 12 22:55:29 that's not too big Mar 12 22:55:36 it's so different from the regular GPS programs Mar 12 22:55:39 tried mapper also Mar 12 22:55:44 no better Mar 12 22:55:49 yes, it is fucked up Mar 12 22:55:58 We all kinda know that already though Mar 12 22:57:07 But I know why Sygic didn't make it into Ovi Story Mar 12 22:57:29 not yet at least Mar 12 22:57:32 it's due to the fact that Ovi Maps will be greatly improved on PR 1.2 and will trump Sygic maps! Mar 12 22:57:41 The best mapping program for N900 is Maep at the moment Mar 12 22:58:01 so nokia is avoiding the shame of sygic Mar 12 22:58:04 maep??? Mar 12 22:58:04 Its only drawback is that you have to predownload manually by browsing the map. Not a very good idea Mar 12 22:58:29 * RST38h is still hoping that someone will write a Python script that predownloads Maep data Mar 12 22:58:44 it says it's simple Mar 12 22:58:49 is it better than mapper? Mar 12 22:58:54 yes. it works. Mar 12 22:59:01 mapper does not, right now Mar 12 22:59:01 mapper might be complicated but it has many features Mar 12 22:59:45 does it trace routes? Mar 12 23:03:03 ptl: Mapper current has problems downloading maps. Mar 12 23:03:07 currently Mar 12 23:04:51 it has some other problems as well Mar 12 23:05:02 like it's ridiculously SLOW Mar 12 23:06:29 thresh: correct Mar 12 23:06:58 thresh: Maybe we should provide Shmuma with a box of beer every time he makes an improvement? :) Mar 12 23:08:29 RST38h: that could work =) Mar 12 23:09:11 thresh: ...and allow us to bet on whether he completes the Mapper to a usable condition or becomes alcoholic first Mar 12 23:10:01 in that case, use absinthe. Mar 12 23:10:03 beer just makes you fat. Mar 12 23:10:12 * RST38h [notes to himself] No Yandex maps for Maryland. Mar 12 23:10:35 (absinthe - the best drink ever) Mar 12 23:10:43 * thresh prefers whiskey Mar 12 23:10:52 ptl: is that absinthe telling you that? Mar 12 23:11:06 into a non-yet-amputated ear? =) Mar 12 23:11:13 lol Mar 12 23:11:19 you could say so Mar 12 23:13:23 With real absinthe, you can't really really become alcoholic in short term, it's expensive and it has to be drunk following a ritual, it's better with people around and it is more of a social drink. Also, you have to dilute it on water to taste it like it should - the essential oils it has only become active (and make themselves be tasted) when the alcoholic degree decreases. Mar 12 23:13:39 ok, too offtopic Mar 12 23:13:50 this sounds like a drug addiction Mar 12 23:13:50 sorry Mar 12 23:13:53 nothing is too offtopic in a middle of friday night Mar 12 23:14:00 so, no, it won't be *called* alcoholism Mar 12 23:14:30 yeah, that's thujone, absinthe even has an active ingredient whose psychoactive effects are not yet well known Mar 12 23:14:50 I even bought a thujone addictive for my absinthe from China. Mar 12 23:27:32 tybollt: haven't noticed anything of the like Mar 12 23:27:53 tybollt: but then again, I'm always in hotels, so maybe the owners will get arrested from browsing porn in a couple of months after I'm long gone Mar 12 23:46:36 I really dislike how both the N810/N900 touch panels lose precision and sensitiveness in borders. Mar 12 23:47:21 why? these two are the only two resistive panels where I've seen this happen. Mar 12 23:47:59 i dunno Mar 12 23:48:26 just watched 5 youtubes, browsed 10 sites. battery half gone Mar 12 23:51:10 pupnik: in firefox or microb? Mar 12 23:51:28 I've noticed that firefox (fennec) supports on N900 html5 perfectly Mar 12 23:51:40 I can see all html5 videos on youtube and even play html5 games Mar 12 23:51:49 ptl in zoutube to save battery Mar 12 23:51:58 k Mar 12 23:52:01 hmm wow Mar 12 23:52:23 in fennec, you have to go to about:config and enable.html5 to true Mar 12 23:52:36 and then join the beta html5 program of youtube Mar 12 23:52:41 but just that, then it works Mar 12 23:52:49 sweet Mar 12 23:53:22 do they transcode existing youtubes to play in html5 ptl? Mar 12 23:53:59 not all of them Mar 12 23:54:04 but many of them they do Mar 12 23:54:19 you'll notice when it's html5... the loading spin-wheel shows 'html5' on it Mar 12 23:54:24 and the controls are slightly different Mar 12 23:59:12 does the n900 support html5? Mar 12 23:59:29 No. Mar 12 23:59:36 bummer Mar 12 23:59:37 It's a computer, the browser does that Mar 12 23:59:48 josephnexus: fennec does Mar 13 00:00:00 i was meaning out of the box Mar 13 00:00:01 :-p Mar 13 00:00:09 no, it doesn't Mar 13 00:01:46 sure it isn't the crummy microb chewing up power like on the N8x0's? Mar 13 00:15:41 it is crummy websites Mar 13 00:19:32 lynx is very fast. Mar 13 00:20:03 and exploit free Mar 13 00:20:59 lynx rox! Mar 13 00:21:57 Ah look what have we got here: http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/12/nokia-c6-is-actually-a-5230-ish-landscape-slider/ Mar 13 00:22:04 4 KEYBOARD ROWS!!! Mar 13 00:22:13 no! patent it! Mar 13 00:22:18 And a DPad!!! Mar 13 00:22:45 no depth though Mar 13 00:22:47 To the pitchforks! Attack! Attack! Mar 13 00:22:49 looks awful Mar 13 00:22:49 regarding developing for maemo, are there recommended ways of: i18n, storing prefs Mar 13 00:22:59 RST38h, yeah, but Symbian sucks with touchscreen. Mar 13 00:23:14 GAN: Actually, I am ok with it Mar 13 00:23:17 cjard_: i18n=same as whatever your toolkit suggest, prefs=gconf. Mar 13 00:23:26 GAN: Just never think of it as a "computer" and you will be fine :) Mar 13 00:23:43 javispedro: thx Mar 13 00:24:04 (kinda hard to do, given how closely these Symbian phones resemble Maemo devices, but still) Mar 13 00:24:25 javispedro: is gconf secure? ok to store passwords in? Mar 13 00:24:56 (accepted that any security or encryption could be broken by reading my program's source, but..) Mar 13 00:25:08 you already answered yourself :) Mar 13 00:25:37 no, gconf is not secure, even although modest stores passwords there Mar 13 00:26:15 modest, icd2, telepathy,.... everything. Mar 13 00:28:14 Heya Mar 13 00:28:23 im trying to mount a samba share on my n900 Mar 13 00:28:30 i installed smbclient atlready Mar 13 00:28:35 and created an ssh tunnel to my home network Mar 13 00:28:52 i can see the share with smbclient -L address/share -U username -> supply password and hit enter Mar 13 00:28:53 javispedro: on the desktop telepathy uses gnome-keyring - maemo 5 doesn't have a secure password store :/ Mar 13 00:29:09 any ideas how to continue from that, Mar 13 00:29:20 javispedro: it should be better in harmattan, we've made pluggable account storage backends now Mar 13 00:29:27 clearly it can see the share but i've no idea how i could add it somewhere so i can access it properly :) Mar 13 00:29:46 not that I actually need anything more secure than plaintext :) Mar 13 00:30:41 hmmm Mar 13 00:30:49 "Ford has recognised that setting up wireless systems in cars need to be accompanied by improved security features. Encryption will be used to protect the WiFi network, with firewalls used to segment the vehicle's operational processors from entertainment and information systems." Mar 13 00:31:06 Ah sweet Ford invents encrypted WiFi! Mar 13 00:31:09 Plaintext+thermite. Mar 13 00:31:14 is it just me that thinks having a car's operational side connected to the entertainment side thats then connected to wifi, whether firewalled or not Mar 13 00:31:19 is bloody stupid? Mar 13 00:31:27 why does it need a firewall? what will the firewall do? Mar 13 00:31:35 SpeedEvil: thermorectal cryptoanalysis? Mar 13 00:31:38 maybe they mean a physical firewall. Mar 13 00:31:41 javispedro: stop from an attacker to shutdown your car Mar 13 00:31:42 ;) Mar 13 00:32:06 javis: will protect GPS tracker installed by your insurance company from your puny hacking attempts Mar 13 00:32:13 id freaking LOVE a wifi connected car that I could start from my apartment on a cold day 15min before going out and driving to work Mar 13 00:32:36 * RST38h suggests "driving to work" part Mar 13 00:32:37 :) Mar 13 00:32:37 just need to be sure i didnt leave it on a gear :) Mar 13 00:32:44 whats driving to work? :\ Mar 13 00:32:55 suggests dropping that is Mar 13 00:33:02 why Mar 13 00:33:13 Why drive to work when you can work at home? Mar 13 00:33:22 I drive a truck Mar 13 00:33:26 it's hard to do from my home Mar 13 00:33:32 Ah Mar 13 00:33:34 :D Mar 13 00:33:35 <`0660> why do you need a car, when you could fly with a helicopter? Mar 13 00:33:36 I dont need a truck to get the 10 feet from my bed to my desk \o/ Mar 13 00:33:47 well, school and driving a delivery truck to get some cash while studying Mar 13 00:33:49 That changes things, as far as WiFI usefullness is concerned =) Mar 13 00:34:16 waking up 4.45am and leavint to work 5am and when its -20celcius i tends to be freaking annoying to find a solid frozen car :) Mar 13 00:34:19 0660: Or switch to LSD and teleport? =) Mar 13 00:34:31 <`0660> exactly! Mar 13 00:34:32 but back to topic Mar 13 00:34:40 it seems i need cifs on my n900 to mount the samba share Mar 13 00:34:44 how can i get it ? Mar 13 00:34:53 welllllll Mar 13 00:34:59 custom kernel? Mar 13 00:35:05 you could built it, you could download it from someone who built it.. Mar 13 00:35:20 you don't actually need to rebuilt the entire kernel for the cifs module.... Mar 13 00:35:27 *rebuild Mar 13 00:35:35 mm Mar 13 00:35:51 i just need to mount my sambashare on the n900 to make my other n900 using friends jaw drop Mar 13 00:36:05 if its too much a hazzle ill just scrap it, dont really need it that much :) Mar 13 00:37:24 i found the cifs kernel module from extras devel Mar 13 00:37:51 wonder where it's located after install Mar 13 00:38:11 you got OTHER N900 using friends? Mar 13 00:38:20 Moo, Arkenoi Mar 13 00:38:27 yeah Mar 13 00:38:41 i showed mine off so one particular dude wanted it right away Mar 13 00:39:28 * Arkenoi is slowpoke - just watched avatar Mar 13 00:39:50 insmod cifs.ko --> file exists error Mar 13 00:39:52 hmm? Mar 13 00:39:52 the cinema was half empty, it is the advantage of being slowpoke Mar 13 00:41:08 * Arkenoi btw seen n900 on the street the first time now (people i know do not count) Mar 13 00:41:12 Arkenoi: I will watch it when it hits torrents and thus do it alone =) Mar 13 00:41:31 rst38h: 3d is fun Mar 13 00:41:42 Arkenoi: I am old fashioned. Mar 13 00:41:59 Arkenoi: And well acquainted with the contents of "451oF" Mar 13 00:42:04 i think it is the sole reason it still had not - people think no one needs it in 2d Mar 13 00:43:00 On the other hand, the Tentacled One approves: "New research shows that the advantages of HDTV aren't lost on octopuses. A recent study on octopus behavior made the upgrade from CRT sets to HDTVs for the playback of octopus-related videos, like one of a tasty crab." Mar 13 00:44:31 btw there is not a single technical reason for CRT to be uncapable of hdtv ;-) Mar 13 00:44:56 Arkenoi: Check out the Imaginarium Of Dr Parnassus BTW Mar 13 00:45:11 Arkenoi: Actually, there is a reason Mar 13 00:45:12 * Arkenoi googled and figured out there ARE! Mar 13 00:45:18 sony makes some Mar 13 00:45:56 The electron beam should lose focus with distance Mar 13 00:46:07 hmmh Mar 13 00:46:11 im trying to mount it now Mar 13 00:46:17 but it keeps saying "invalid argument2 Mar 13 00:46:27 sudo mount -t cifs "//remote/samba/share" /local/folder -o u=MYUSER,pass=MYPASSWORD,uid=29999,gid=29999 Mar 13 00:46:37 thats the line im trying with my addresses naturally Mar 13 00:46:57 i can see the share with "smbclient -L 127.0.0.1/kaliapullo -U username -> supply password Mar 13 00:47:37 so my mount line is: mount -t cifs "//127.0.0.1/kaliapullo" /home/user -o u=username,pass=password,uid=29999,gid=29999 Mar 13 00:47:46 any ideas mr geniuses? :) Mar 13 00:48:30 red: screw it. Mar 13 00:48:58 :< Mar 13 00:49:02 it's so close :) Mar 13 00:49:25 a moment then Mar 13 00:49:35 http://www.google.com/products/catalog?hl=en&q=crt+hdtv&cid=8168926245736317175#p wow , <$200 for 70" - i wonder how much does it cost in Russia, i guess $1K+ Mar 13 00:50:06 127.0.0.1¿ Mar 13 00:50:09 ? Mar 13 00:50:14 javispedro: loopback Mar 13 00:50:21 ah, ssh tunnel Mar 13 00:50:25 yeah Mar 13 00:50:32 i can see the share fine with smbclient on the n900 Mar 13 00:50:38 just need to get it mounted to actually access it Mar 13 00:50:55 Arkenoi: it is rear-projection. Mar 13 00:51:03 the mount just says invalid argument" pff, wish it gave more specific error messages Mar 13 00:51:08 i feel like im trying to use xml with php here Mar 13 00:51:20 red: anything new in dmesg? Mar 13 00:51:36 rst38h: yep, but it is dirt cheap Mar 13 00:51:55 Arkenoi: You do not want it. It is rear-projection. Mar 13 00:52:06 That is why it is so cheap: nobody buys it Mar 13 00:52:18 RST38h: how do you access that? Mar 13 00:52:27 red: dmesg | more Mar 13 00:53:24 cifs unknow mount option -u Mar 13 00:53:28 thats odd Mar 13 00:53:36 red: I think I know what the problem is Mar 13 00:53:48 red: your mount point should be an empty directory Mar 13 00:54:02 i tried that too Mar 13 00:54:05 red: mkdir /home/user/smb and use it as the mount point Mar 13 00:54:05 made a samba dir in media Mar 13 00:54:08 and pointed to that Mar 13 00:54:08 ok Mar 13 00:54:26 its saying invalid argument even without the -o and stuff after Mar 13 00:54:29 second hypothesis: mount may be sensitive to the order of arguments Mar 13 00:54:40 rst38h: i really do not care. what's wrong with rear projection? it is brighter than fore projector and it is cheaper. Mar 13 00:54:46 mount -t cifs -o Mar 13 00:55:12 Arkenoi: It is not sharp enough, not bright enough, and usually causes weird color effects when you move eyes across the screen Mar 13 00:55:46 Arkenoi: Also tends to have tiny visibility angles in vertical direction Mar 13 00:55:50 hmmh Mar 13 00:55:57 without -u dmesg says username not supplied error Mar 13 00:56:05 and with -u it says its unknown parameter Mar 13 00:56:07 do it as root Mar 13 00:56:18 RST38h, i've seen some, it is reasonably sharp and reasonably bright. i am pretty satisfied with generic dlp projectors and it is even better Mar 13 00:56:18 i am sudo gainroot Mar 13 00:56:51 Arkenoi: Well, tastes differ of course, but I would not bring it home even if it were free Mar 13 00:57:13 how do I disable compositing from my window? Mar 13 00:57:23 Arkenoi: In fact, one of these suckers is playing a movie downstairs, so I can always go there and refresh my bad feelings about it =) Mar 13 00:57:42 mikkov: konttori says it gets disabled automagically when in full screen mode Mar 13 00:57:44 you can get different types of rear projection screen you know... visibility angle is not a problem any more. brightness is, however. Mar 13 00:57:49 mikkov: Starting with PR1.1 Mar 13 00:57:59 of course, the good screens tend to cost more than the projector Mar 13 00:58:05 the syntax had changed Mar 13 00:58:09 red: is u=MYUSER valid? isn't it user=MYUSER? Mar 13 00:58:09 it's user= and pass= Mar 13 00:58:12 not u= anymore Mar 13 00:58:20 MYUSER? Mar 13 00:58:41 RST38h: when compositing is disabled, should the yellow notification boxes be visible? Mar 13 00:58:46 with user=red,pass=*** i now got an error of no such device or address Mar 13 00:58:54 mikkov: Afaik yes Mar 13 00:58:55 so getting closer Mar 13 00:59:04 mikkov: yes, it switches to composited, shows it, then switches back to uncomposited. Mar 13 00:59:05 mikkov: That is different Mar 13 00:59:41 * RST38h has a different problem BTW: need to turn compositing ON. How do I do THAT? Mar 13 00:59:54 ah, ok. I'm just wondering why teeworlds is running so slow Mar 13 01:00:13 mikkov: depending on how you fullscreen, it may not switch to not composited. Mar 13 01:00:30 mikkov: the maemo-sdl, gtk, qt, etc. do it "the right way"? Mar 13 01:00:35 s/?// Mar 13 01:00:36 javispedro meant: mikkov: the maemo-sdl, gtk, qt, etc. do it "the right way" Mar 13 01:00:45 RST38h: btw I got nogravity running, but textures are not working (yet, maybe) Mar 13 01:01:30 mikkov: Oh yesssss =) Mar 13 01:01:56 * RST38h feels guilty now and goes to fix that TI84+SE skin Mar 13 01:02:51 RST38h: I can launch the actual game and shoot things but everything looks crap with big white boxes Mar 13 01:03:28 mikkov: It may expect full OpenGL... Mar 13 01:04:45 RST38h: sure, it did require more than just compiling :) Mar 13 01:05:42 RST38h: textures have been the problem with other stuff too like tuxracer Mar 13 01:05:59 Hi does the backup utility for n900, save the phone contacts?? Mar 13 01:06:22 yes Mar 13 01:06:32 mikkov: I would suggest talking to konttori, he should at least know who is responsible for them Mar 13 01:07:05 mikkov: But there is at least one other problem with OGLES: it sometimes corrupts screenbuffer (and may corrupt some other memory areas, I suspect) Mar 13 01:07:35 mikkov: The bug looks like small patches of garbage, not unlike two-three garbage characters "printed" to the screen Mar 13 01:08:20 ok i narrowed it down Mar 13 01:08:29 RST38h: I haven't seen nothing like that Mar 13 01:08:33 for some reason cifs is brekaing down to the // Mar 13 01:09:26 I have seen that Mar 13 01:09:34 in fact after having spawned tuxrace a few times now Mar 13 01:09:46 the yellow notifications are corrupted in the task switcher Mar 13 01:09:54 javispedro: If you feel like complaining, file a bug tracker, I will vote Mar 13 01:09:56 they have random black/green vertical lines Mar 13 01:10:15 On the other hand, this may be a different problem and I am sure they will hang it onto TuxRacer Mar 13 01:11:04 javispedro: have you seen the problem with ioquake or some other ogl game? Mar 13 01:11:11 RST38h: I'm pretty sure the SGX has a lot of bugs already... the official answer is "new driver version that will come in PR1.2" Mar 13 01:11:14 or app Mar 13 01:11:34 javis: ORLY? Interesting Mar 13 01:11:51 mikkov: no... then again I've SIGKILL'd it numerous times Mar 13 01:11:55 mikkov: I see my bug with a lot of OffScr games, and Angry Birds too Mar 13 01:12:35 RST38h: new driver version, yes... but they don't know if it will fix the bug, just that "it might be harder to reproduce in the new version". Mar 13 01:21:37 ah, "egil" in tmo: qgil's mirror universe twin. Mar 13 01:22:14 his first post: "you may now put all your fud in this thread." Mar 13 01:32:21 javis: poor quim Mar 13 01:40:39 I give up trying to mount for the evening :P Mar 13 01:40:40 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=565663&posted=1#post565663 Mar 13 02:18:17 http://scp-wiki.wikidot.com/scp-337 Mar 13 02:20:41 isn't there a bug report facility for extras-testing or extras-devel in maemo.org? Mar 13 02:21:02 I tried to get to the bugzilla bug tracker for abiword but it sent me to abisource's homepage Mar 13 02:21:37 and I tried to enter a bug report on maemo's bugzilla but it doesn't seem to have a section for extras-devel or extras-testing, only extras Mar 13 02:25:57 why could a bitmapped font file format have a per-char "x_offset", "y_offset" pair of fields? Mar 13 02:27:37 because even a bitmap font can do kerning Mar 13 02:27:49 * javispedro answers himself by overriding y_offset to 0 and watching the rendering of ay at diferent baselines Mar 13 02:28:06 amiga fonts had this capability :) Mar 13 02:35:57 javispedro: for kerning of course Mar 13 02:37:20 yes, I was underestimating the capabilities of this (someone's homemade) font renderer. Mar 13 02:38:23 aha. Mar 13 02:38:30 and the winner of the day is.. Mar 13 02:38:52 ah finally Mar 13 02:38:58 i went to sleep and had a revelation Mar 13 02:39:06 i had to mount it at //127.0.0.1/MyFiles Mar 13 02:39:16 since samba isn't in the root, cause its MyFiles and Printers Mar 13 02:39:25 damned windows way :P Mar 13 02:40:34 because of gcc's arm target's default unsignedness of chars, the font renderer was reading every offset_x value as a unsigned char, thus reading a offset_x value of "-1" (which makes sense) as "255" (which causes letters to randomly scatter along the screen) Mar 13 02:40:42 fun. Mar 13 02:40:44 mikkov: there? Mar 13 02:46:53 bwahah Mar 13 02:47:14 now i have samba shares on my n900, and i've symlinked dropbox there aswell Mar 13 02:47:40 so dropping stuff into dropbox anywhere, are available on my phone from file manager :) Mar 13 02:47:49 plus all my media at home naturally Mar 13 02:51:11 http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1642028/what-is-the-name-of-this-operator Mar 13 02:51:36 everything I remember about the SMB protocol is that I read a book about it which had an special addendum about "making good coffee", which was a prerequisite to understanding all the weird stuff in the protocol Mar 13 02:52:22 welcome to the world of tokens! Mar 13 02:53:00 Beautiful world of tokens where no token is what it seems to be! Mar 13 02:53:47 I love how they had to break their own rules just to parse >>.. Mar 13 02:53:51 (in C++) Mar 13 02:54:13 what is >>.. BTW? =) Mar 13 02:54:26 good example =) Mar 13 02:56:01 ah, I just broke the depth test in tuxracer... watching tux's "internals". **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sat Mar 13 02:59:57 2010