**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Mar 13 02:59:57 2010 Mar 13 03:00:56 Hi guys, is there a way to run java apps such as qq im client on n900 with maemo 5?? Mar 13 03:04:52 Hmm... On an N900 keyboard, generating a random-character US-QWERTY-typable password that excludes characters that require the Sym menu and give 1/4 weight to characters that require either Shift key yields 6 bits of entropy per character, or only 10% less than ordinary QWERTY. Mar 13 03:05:03 xander: ISTR a qq plugin for gaim? Mar 13 03:05:46 can i somehow get aliases to work in sudo gainroot mode? Mar 13 03:05:53 .profile works for normal terminal Mar 13 03:06:01 but home/user .profile isnt read for root Mar 13 03:06:04 nor is /root/.profile Mar 13 03:10:17 i added them into roots .bashrc Mar 13 03:10:23 and source /root/.bashrc Mar 13 03:10:57 it changed the command line name to Nokia-N900-42-11 Mar 13 03:11:06 hope thats the only side-effect Mar 13 03:14:40 hi Mar 13 03:15:07 javispedro: so you solved the broken menus in tuxracer Mar 13 03:15:33 tuxracer uses stencil buffer for depth test Mar 13 03:16:37 it has to be set with -DUSE_STENCIL_BUFFER Mar 13 03:16:46 compile time Mar 13 04:06:41 is anyone aware of a decent competing device to the n8X0/n900 products? Mar 13 04:08:05 Tobarja: Competing on what? Mar 13 04:10:44 small, wifi, touchscreen, plethora of apps Mar 13 04:19:44 Tobarja: Well, in that respect, pretty much all Android phones and iPhones fit the bill. Mar 13 04:20:19 he said decent Mar 13 04:20:34 luke-jr: Fair enough. Mar 13 04:20:41 :p Mar 13 04:20:46 Tobarja: Strike the iPhones from that list. Mar 13 04:21:24 lol Mar 13 04:50:53 Pavel: if you want a great experience and tons of apps: iPhone. if you want a middle-of-the-road system that can do a bit of what the iPhone does and a bit of what the n900 does: nexus one. if you want a horrible user experience but a phone completely capable of running desktop/server apps: n900 Mar 13 04:51:55 Vratha: Sigh... I know, I was half-joking. For certain definitions of "great" and "experience", anyway. Mar 13 04:52:09 Vratha: Not getting into that discussion at the moment. Mar 13 05:08:54 Warning: This package does not have the required bugtracker link specified! what is this? Mar 13 05:33:39 hi, is it possible to buy the screen replacement for n900? (not the lcd) Mar 13 05:38:15 sobczyk: I don't understand Mar 13 05:38:34 sobczyk: you want a replacement to get rid of scratches i.e. ? Mar 13 05:38:40 plastic cover Mar 13 05:38:42 yes Mar 13 05:39:22 sobczyk: I have read the talk of developers who claim it is inexpensive to buy and easy to replace Mar 13 05:39:46 I'm clueless about the sourcing of such a thing Mar 13 05:39:52 who would you contact? Mar 13 05:40:19 great to hear I noticed first scrach and wanted to find out whether I should be more careful or just buy replacement Mar 13 05:40:57 sobczyk: I might be dreaming this but I remember reading it was like $60usd Mar 13 05:41:12 you also need tools and so on to disassemble the device Mar 13 05:42:00 sobczyk: From my own experience I do know that I like the Zagg "InvisibleShield" body protector and screen protector on my N900, they prevent scratches and are one-time applications Mar 13 05:42:52 I bought a protector but it was horrible to apply and left air bubbles and some dust Mar 13 05:42:57 yeah Mar 13 05:43:11 all screen protectors are difficult to apply Mar 13 05:43:37 nokia should have made the default one see through Mar 13 05:43:48 my good experience with the Zagg InvisibleShield is that air bubbles disappeared after a few days, and I like the "grippy" texture it adds Mar 13 05:44:28 applying it was a real panic, I hate doing that and am glad I only need to do it once Mar 13 05:44:50 I'll look for some protectors though might be tough to get a dedictaed one since I' in s korea Mar 13 05:45:34 sobczyk: A slip cover helps too, because it can prevent the camera lens cover from opening in your pocket Mar 13 05:45:46 scratching the camera lens would be a problem Mar 13 05:45:50 Hi Mar 13 05:47:01 though now I know I can buy the front screen so I don't need to worry so much about the phone Mar 13 05:50:17 A small question concerning the naming of a package... I wonder how the name is built. Is it built from the changelog file in the debian directory? Mar 13 05:51:09 fureddo: it's built from ... how to answer this properly, I must refer to the debian maintenance packaging guide Mar 13 05:51:38 Is the name generated from the string in the changelog file containing "unstablel urgency=low" line. Mar 13 05:51:51 partially Mar 13 05:52:03 there's a list of packages to build from the source package Mar 13 05:52:25 the source package name is built from the directory name of the original sources before building source package for debian Mar 13 05:53:15 fureddo: this is for Ubuntu but it is large friendly type and you might find your answer quickly => https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide Mar 13 05:53:40 Ok, *reading* Mar 13 05:54:28 Found it! Thanks Mar 13 05:55:50 I have an application that works on both Diablo and Fremantle. I wonder if I should name it with a suffix -fremantle or not. Mar 13 05:55:58 Or -diablo. Mar 13 05:56:04 very nice battery survival leaving n900 on overnight - 5 hours resulted in 35 pct drain, leaving irssi open with 12 channels Mar 13 05:57:26 fureddo: if you follow what Ubuntu does, then the naming can be similar to foo_X.Y.Z-0diablo1~armel.deb or similar Mar 13 05:57:54 what is crushing me is the zoutube and gpodder Mar 13 05:58:25 python and pulseaudio and media Mar 13 05:58:30 pupnik: wifi chipset is nearly always disabled on my N900 Mar 13 05:58:34 I'm looking in the repositories now and it doesn't seem like it's very important. Mar 13 05:58:35 it's not worth the hit in battery life Mar 13 05:59:33 that would disable the devuce for me lucent Mar 13 06:00:37 heh n810 is playing a podcast two rooms away in bathroom and perfectly listenable Mar 13 06:01:37 Maybe -maemoX would be more appropriate for Fremantle. I don't know what would be the X though. It's a number but which one? Mar 13 06:02:07 5 is fremantle Mar 13 06:02:19 fureddo: a rather verbose example of a custom package for Ubuntu => cdda2wav_2.01.01a76-0ubuntu1~ppa1_i386.deb Mar 13 06:02:43 in this example "ppa" is personal package archive to indicate it's not official Mar 13 06:16:16 any chance to get a disk space usage estimate of / (rootfs) from app manager? Mar 13 06:17:07 from HAM? not possible I think Mar 13 06:17:19 'df -sh /' from xterminal is how I do it Mar 13 06:17:39 no way to estimate reliably how much rootfs space will be used Mar 13 06:20:33 so i see a lot of use for a mobile browser that aggressively discards non-content Mar 13 06:20:51 recently using elinks-lite more Mar 13 06:26:43 pupnik.de will never chew your battery :) Mar 13 06:28:55 Ugh, freaking geneven. Mar 13 06:29:54 http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?=565771&postcount=30 Mar 13 06:34:52 updating 10 packages takes an hour of my time, clicking, switching, Mar 13 06:35:22 bogging down system Mar 13 06:41:26 Some guy added himself as Maintainer for my package, is it possible? And how can I make sure if he uploads something bad? Mar 13 06:43:15 that only happens if you orphaned it Mar 13 06:43:38 orphaned? Mar 13 06:46:30 stopped maintaining Mar 13 06:47:46 I did not update package -because it was not needed- for ~a month but I'm not stopping anything =) Mar 13 06:47:53 Can I remove him? Mar 13 06:49:34 I would not care if someone with enough privilege (a Nokia staff, someone from Maemo Team etc.) get Maintainer access, but he's someone with karma points of 3. So, removing is better option =) Mar 13 06:51:26 then i dont understand it Mar 13 06:52:08 random people can not just add themselves Mar 13 06:52:24 make him a contributor perhaps Mar 13 06:53:40 Aranel: mail to maemo-community about it Mar 13 06:54:04 not first weird instance i've seen Mar 13 06:56:41 Stskeeps: sending now Mar 13 07:03:11 lo johnx Mar 13 07:03:16 hey Stskeeps Mar 13 07:03:35 how's it going? Mar 13 07:03:40 pretty good Mar 13 07:03:49 had a release at work this last week Mar 13 07:03:51 loads of fun Mar 13 07:04:18 obviously I've totally lost my mind because I just finished putting debian+windowmaker back on my zaurus Mar 13 07:04:57 at least you didn't try to install ms-something Mar 13 07:05:28 well, I'm crazy, not masochistic Mar 13 07:05:50 :) Mar 13 07:06:11 anyone know a good super small syslog replacement? Mar 13 07:06:27 pupnik: Stskeeps: sent :) waiting for approval. Thanks for the help. Mar 13 07:11:59 johnx; maybe metalog, not sure never use it myself, source package is just 276450 Mar 13 07:12:23 thanks Mar 13 07:12:26 I'll check it out Mar 13 07:12:45 http://metalog.sourceforge.net Mar 13 07:12:50 need to make 64MB go as far as possible if I'm going to have a comfortable user space :) Mar 13 07:13:02 * Trizt nods Mar 13 07:13:43 is metalog actively maintained again? Mar 13 07:13:44 johnx: busybox circular syslogd Mar 13 07:14:31 luke-jr; no clue, it's still in portage Mar 13 07:14:54 luke-jr, last release was less than a year ago Mar 13 07:15:06 and it was version 1 so ... maybe? Mar 13 07:15:44 I guess I'll put in sysklogd for now and look at drastic options later Mar 13 07:25:59 johnx: metalog is really amazing but I think it is heavyweight Mar 13 07:26:25 yeah, actually it seems heavier than sysklogd Mar 13 07:26:27 and as I'm reading the peanut gallery commentary now, perhaps not actively maintained Mar 13 07:26:48 and since I need cron (or something cron-like anyways) I don't gain anything by having built-in log rotation Mar 13 07:27:08 johnx: I would look at whatever puppylinux uses? Mar 13 07:27:17 ah, good thought Mar 13 07:35:33 and they use sysklogd I think, so that answers that Mar 13 07:36:20 interesting note: in mac-land ctrl+w is "delete one word" and in linux land it's typically "close tab or window" Mar 13 07:37:10 ah, nevermind: they use busybox syslogd which doesn't even accept configuration ... maybe I'll pass on that Mar 13 07:37:46 ctrl-w is usually delete one word in a terminal Mar 13 07:38:06 yup. and in emacs. and in firefox on the mac Mar 13 07:38:35 however, no matter how much I train myself I still screw up from time to time Mar 13 07:39:03 especially funny is that I use synergy to hook this linux box and the mac directly to its right together and share one keyboard between them both Mar 13 07:39:09 "delete one word", "close tab or window"... SAME THING DUH Mar 13 07:39:10 this of course frequently leads to hilarity Mar 13 07:39:12 * luke-jr runs Mar 13 07:39:49 luke-jr, I think that's a special case :P Mar 13 08:39:47 heh, ctrl-c also does different things in a terminal and in shortcut-aware input Mar 13 08:40:14 shortcut-aware wtf? Mar 13 08:40:34 drag'n'drop aware or um... keybindings Mar 13 08:41:25 GnomeTerminal on Ubuntu has a trick for the cutsel buffers of X11 and Gtk, one is Shift+Insert the other Ctrl+Shift+c/v Mar 13 08:41:53 I don't think it applies to the xterminal in maemo Mar 13 08:42:08 ctrl-shift-c/v alas doesn't work in maemo xterm it seems Mar 13 08:42:50 but hey, maemo isn't even aware of ctrl-alt-del ;-P Mar 13 08:42:59 nor should it be Mar 13 08:43:26 on N900 there is no hw key for delete Mar 13 08:43:35 nah, I'd *love* to have a alt key, and a del key as well Mar 13 08:44:20 delete key is mapped often in games and also I think in microb for about:config Mar 13 08:44:28 it's annoying. Mar 13 08:44:30 actually the missing alt is a friggin pita sometimes Mar 13 08:44:46 Hi, any app in repos to read flac id3 tags? Mar 13 08:45:00 LuciusMare: id3 in flac? wtf is that Mar 13 08:45:31 what program can produce such nonsense Mar 13 08:45:32 then what meta information does flac use? Mar 13 08:46:04 flac is flac. You can store ID3 or OGG tags I suppose in a block Mar 13 08:46:14 I assumed from this description of tag editor: "Can edit id3 tags in mp3, flac and many others" Mar 13 08:46:21 okay Mar 13 08:46:27 well it's a simple description Mar 13 08:47:10 better description "Can edit tags in mp3, flac and many others" Mar 13 08:47:39 okay, so is there any app in repos that can read tags in flac? Mar 13 08:47:40 I have just uploaded successfully my application. Could anyone test it? The package is named tomotko-0.11.2-9fremantle0 in extras-devel. Mar 13 08:47:49 isn't it even more simple ? ;-P Mar 13 08:48:23 DocScrutinizer: bail water, or swim, thanks! Mar 13 08:48:26 exactly 3chars plus a space simpler Mar 13 08:48:54 LuciusMare: "metaflac" from flac tools should do it, let me check repos to see if I have it Mar 13 08:49:02 i know just metaflac, but that is not in repos Mar 13 08:49:04 oh. Mar 13 08:49:15 shouldnt be hard to port Mar 13 08:49:42 rage.... N900 drops cellular internet connection Mar 13 08:49:44 how do we fix broken dsp-codecs upgrade? Mar 13 08:49:48 requires that I reboot before it will work again Mar 13 08:49:57 reconnects for me Mar 13 08:50:11 lucent, so far the last two places I've lived have been in t-mo deadzones Mar 13 08:50:28 what the hell Mar 13 08:50:31 lucent, does the phone part still work? Mar 13 08:50:44 johnx: same here I use t-mobile yet the problem I have is I am sitting stationary, my N900 in hand. It will not connect to net but phone does work Mar 13 08:50:45 my tablet suddenly "forgot" how to play flac files :o Mar 13 08:50:50 lucent: o.O ??? Mar 13 08:50:54 johnx: if I reboot, it will connect to internet Mar 13 08:51:08 must be driver or maemo problem Mar 13 08:51:12 did you do dsp-codecs upgrade lucent ? Mar 13 08:51:17 LuciusMare: Mar 13 08:51:18 lucent, is it doing it now? Mar 13 08:51:29 johnx: right now yeah is there info you want? Mar 13 08:51:45 "Internet connection failed. Try again?" Mar 13 08:51:46 yeah. do you have a couple minutes? Mar 13 08:51:52 yes! would love to Mar 13 08:51:53 Wow, i cant play anything, and no, i didnt do anything Mar 13 08:52:14 i just rebooted, and poof Mar 13 08:53:04 Not sure what messages are for me Mar 13 08:53:13 Did it also happen to you? Mar 13 08:53:31 lucent, hmm, have you tried restarting network-manager? Mar 13 08:53:43 also, before you do that, does dmesg say anything interesting? Mar 13 08:53:51 johnx: I have not tried any commandline things Mar 13 08:54:26 mind typing some things out for me? Mar 13 08:54:29 no problem Mar 13 08:54:35 first one: dmesg Mar 13 08:54:49 nothing too obvious Mar 13 08:55:03 pupnik: ? Mar 13 08:55:07 "gprs0: attached" "gprs0: dettached" Mar 13 08:55:40 johnx: my history does not go very far back in dmesg Mar 13 08:55:42 lucent: 3G? Mar 13 08:55:43 so right now the cell data icon has a red / through it? Mar 13 08:55:45 did you do dsp-codecs upgrade LuciusMare ? Mar 13 08:55:49 DocScrutinizer: 2.5G (EDGE) Mar 13 08:56:03 lucas, you can try: dmesg > /home/user/MyDocs/ Mar 13 08:56:07 johnx: visible icons are bars+2.5 Mar 13 08:56:09 lucas, you can try: dmesg > /home/user/MyDocs/output.txt Mar 13 08:56:25 sorry lucas :) mistabbed Mar 13 08:56:33 johnx: cell data icon is not there Mar 13 08:56:45 I can't connect, or reconnect, so I cancelled the attempt to retry Mar 13 08:57:08 this is every day thing, if I were to reboot the phone, it would connect to cell data immediately no problem Mar 13 08:57:34 but it can make calls and send SMS in this state? Mar 13 08:57:44 does it tend to happen in a specific location? or at a specific time? Mar 13 08:57:49 I just called voicemail and it worked correctly, I cannot check SMS Mar 13 08:58:16 johnx: One example of when it happens is when I am inside a movie theater where I work, and I walk around with the phone and it loses data connection Mar 13 08:58:18 empires end because they expand the empire and bankrupt the country - Ron Paul Mar 13 08:58:33 it would not be able to reconnect, so I would reboot my phone to make it work again Mar 13 08:58:46 how long have you let it try to reconnect? Mar 13 08:58:56 lucent: your celltower's (BTS) GPRS config might suck Mar 13 08:59:12 all afternoon, today. I wasn't too interested to play with my phone tonight Mar 13 08:59:29 never gets right Mar 13 08:59:33 do you have rootsh installed? Mar 13 08:59:37 yep Mar 13 08:59:56 just for fun, become root and type: /etc/init.d/icd2 restart Mar 13 09:00:00 okay Mar 13 09:01:49 johnx: waiting... data icon is flashing wait for connect, and went away. Mar 13 09:01:57 fun stuff Mar 13 09:02:03 got one more trick up my sleeve Mar 13 09:02:07 poking internet connection to see if it will go.... Mar 13 09:02:10 reflash? Mar 13 09:02:26 lucent, did this happen from day one? Mar 13 09:02:29 "Cellular network not available" and fail Mar 13 09:02:31 johnx: yep Mar 13 09:02:43 have you ever reflashed and/or upgraded? Mar 13 09:03:11 johnx: yes. I've upgraded when updates come out. I "think" that some updates were better behaved than others Mar 13 09:03:30 no idea how to say if it was the updates or not Mar 13 09:03:45 hmm... Mar 13 09:03:56 I'm looking for the right module to unload Mar 13 09:03:58 lucent: you ever transmitted a single byte over GPRS? Mar 13 09:04:12 I had a weird issue where it would periodically "lose track" of my SIM Mar 13 09:04:51 DocScrutinizer: I don't understand, I have internet service with T-Mobile and no 3G service in my area, so I use it for web browsing Mar 13 09:04:57 that is more than a single byte Mar 13 09:05:15 so it worked at times Mar 13 09:05:31 -> no misconfig of AP name etc Mar 13 09:05:34 works every day. If I reboot the phone, it will work again Mar 13 09:05:37 and dies in low coverage area then doesn't come back? Mar 13 09:06:14 johnx: It would seem so Mar 13 09:06:34 johnx: just losing coverage does not always kill the connection "forever" Mar 13 09:06:43 sorry for interrupting, but is it safe to update from command line by "apt-get upgrade"? Mar 13 09:07:04 LuciusMare, not for Nokia-provided updates Mar 13 09:07:16 always heard it's highly deprecated Mar 13 09:07:17 HAM does some strange stuff for them sometimes Mar 13 09:07:31 heh Mar 13 09:07:58 lucent, try: modprobe -r ssi_mcsaab_imp Mar 13 09:08:08 then: modprobe ssi_mcsaab_imp Mar 13 09:08:09 because, i cant play any files with the mediaplayer, says "unsupported file type" Mar 13 09:08:31 and this was after an upgrade and reboot? Mar 13 09:08:32 * lucent whips out his index fingers Mar 13 09:08:36 what have you installed recently? Mar 13 09:09:15 johnx: talking to me? Mar 13 09:09:21 I have no device. Could someone tell me if my application can install and run fine, please. The application is tomotko-0.11.2-9fremantle0 in extras-devel. Mar 13 09:09:31 johnx: okay, module unloaded, status box icon has something new which is like a crossed-out SIM card Mar 13 09:10:00 lucas, yup Mar 13 09:10:04 fureddo, one sec Mar 13 09:10:30 johnx, Take your time. Mar 13 09:11:26 johnx: what to do now, should I reload that module? Mar 13 09:11:31 yup Mar 13 09:11:45 interestingly, mine didn't find my SIM again :) Mar 13 09:11:56 (I was working along with you) Mar 13 09:12:17 johnx: mine neither, for the moment Mar 13 09:12:25 still icon of crossed out SIM Mar 13 09:12:38 johnx: flight mode and back to full? Mar 13 09:12:51 that probably would have been simpler, you're right Mar 13 09:13:05 johnx: well, i didnt mess with the system at all, as i can remember, i just rebooted, and so i cant, maybe another reboot will fix it... Mar 13 09:13:39 DocScrutinizer: it's a fact I've gone to flight mode and then back, it does not connect the cell internet again Mar 13 09:14:00 also, I have a feeling flight mode doesn't unload that module Mar 13 09:14:03 since my issue is a daily kind of thing, I can recall having done this a few times to try to work around Mar 13 09:14:06 LuciusMare: there's a known bug some video format kills the gfx engine, so you need to reboot Mar 13 09:14:32 johnx: okay so I'm still simcard-disabled icon here Mar 13 09:14:36 hah. Mar 13 09:14:40 DocScrutinizer: thanks Mar 13 09:14:58 lucent, I just did the same to myself. :) first time I've tried this trick with the post-launch firmware Mar 13 09:15:19 gimma a sec to see if I can fix it for me, then I'll tell you what happens Mar 13 09:15:28 no rush, let me know Mar 13 09:15:48 lucent: I just meant to recover from sim-not-detected Mar 13 09:16:13 DocScrutinizer: ah, okay, I've tried that now and no change. Great suggestion though Mar 13 09:16:20 DocScrutinizer, no love for me either. Seems like the module doesn't get itself initialized properly the second time Mar 13 09:16:26 though it used to ... Mar 13 09:16:36 :-/ Mar 13 09:16:45 well, I'm out of my depth and out of ideas :) Mar 13 09:16:59 lucent, you can at least tell nokia you don't think it's a problem with icd2 Mar 13 09:17:51 johnx: pnatd? Mar 13 09:18:35 lucent, if you run: dmesg > /home/user/MyDocs/output.txt Mar 13 09:18:40 I'd be interested in that output still Mar 13 09:20:04 all the thousands of times I open/close the slider, wow Mar 13 09:20:30 that would be an interesting statistic, how many open/close cycles are people doing with their phones hm Mar 13 09:20:56 would be more fun to correlate actually: how many times people open close the slider vs how much they like the phone Mar 13 09:21:44 there's no "hugged" lines in syslog :-P Mar 13 09:22:32 DocScrutinizer, we'll have to settle for detecting when they've thrown it at the floor (the lack thereof) using the accelerometer Mar 13 09:23:09 johnx: I'm willing to provide dmesg output, yet I don't have any spider sense that it will be enlightening here. Mar 13 09:23:33 heh. and I can't even get my SIM detected again :) Mar 13 09:23:42 nokia is watching when I open and close my slider. Mar 13 09:23:44 * johnx does not win the troubleshooting prize tonight Mar 13 09:24:02 you win the special No-lympics Mar 13 09:24:07 SpeedEvil: big brother is watching you - you opted in XP Mar 13 09:25:21 * DocScrutinizer wonders if Nokia user monitor also reads out the various thermosensors in their devices ;-P Mar 13 09:25:34 SpeedEvil: you installed the monitor thingy? I can't remember it's name Mar 13 09:25:35 they'd be amazed I guess Mar 13 09:25:42 fureddo, as soon as I reboot I'll install tomotko Mar 13 09:25:55 Thanks Mar 13 09:26:03 johnx: time to reboot. Mar 13 09:26:13 yeah Mar 13 09:26:21 that *worked* before Mar 13 09:26:28 asj_: yes Mar 13 09:26:35 it even picked my SIM up again after the phone had lost track of it ... Mar 13 09:26:37 * johnx sulks Mar 13 09:27:02 johnx: I think one of the recent Nokia updates broke stuff again for me Mar 13 09:27:03 SpeedEvil: me too, I wonder if they'll ever publish anything from it Mar 13 09:27:15 asj_: would be interesting. Mar 13 09:27:18 there was a good couple of weeks (that I remember, vaugely) where everything always worked Mar 13 09:27:28 asj_: but I doubt it Mar 13 09:27:50 can't think of anything you did differently that couple weeks? using/not using some feature? different location? Mar 13 09:28:01 lucent: one last idea: you ever tried to force the modem to 2G mode? Mar 13 09:28:09 DocScrutinizer: uh... how to do that? Mar 13 09:28:10 SpeedEvil: it could be bad, "avg battery life: 12 hours" Mar 13 09:28:40 :) Mar 13 09:28:42 err, I got "2G" "3G" "DUAL" buttons in systray menu Mar 13 09:28:48 prolly some applet Mar 13 09:29:00 DocScrutinizer: 2g/3g switcher IIRC Mar 13 09:29:19 yeah, sounds about right Mar 13 09:29:33 johnx: the connection-related items I have are "Dummy" (registered download from the Nokia dev website) and WifiSwitcher to turn off wifi chipset Mar 13 09:29:55 I had these tools always, though Mar 13 09:29:59 yeah, but I'm thinking anything. Remember, it's a whole system on one chip Mar 13 09:30:02 chances are the modem somehow locks up in 3G in areas where 2G is weak and 3G not even applicable Mar 13 09:30:17 bluetooth, fmtx, letting the battery run down more often, being near different towers Mar 13 09:30:21 DocScrutinizer: interesting then Mar 13 09:30:22 being away from other cell towers Mar 13 09:30:43 cell towers would be a huge variance where I am Mar 13 09:30:53 AT&T runs the town with towers Mar 13 09:31:04 T-Mobile's closest retail store is 78 miles away Mar 13 09:31:29 well, I'm mainly thinking if you were on vacation the two weeks it worked or something :) Mar 13 09:31:42 johnx: for your information, I reboot the N900, now it is connected to cellular internet Mar 13 09:31:48 ha Mar 13 09:32:07 just saying, I haven't moved my fat ass from the chair and only change is reboot the device Mar 13 09:32:38 * DocScrutinizer thinks the issue may appear each time tmo is weak and the modem roams to at&t Mar 13 09:32:47 or from 2G to 3G Mar 13 09:33:02 then never recovers from that Mar 13 09:33:22 that's why I really wanted to try and get that stupid module to reload happily :| Mar 13 09:33:26 carriers borked ther network config wrt roaming maybe Mar 13 09:34:51 USA is braindamaged with using 3G on GSM classic bands anyway Mar 13 09:35:18 s/braindamaged/profit-motivated/g Mar 13 09:35:20 eh, the whole world frequency allocation is stupidly screwed up Mar 13 09:36:48 fureddo, looks great! want a screenshot or two? Mar 13 09:37:24 johnx, Sure. You still have my email address somewhere? Mar 13 09:37:32 let me check Mar 13 09:37:59 johnx, It's not complete yet. More polish is needed. Mar 13 09:38:26 yup, got it. any specific requests? Mar 13 09:38:58 also: you should elbow Nokia and try and get them to give you an N900 to test with :) Mar 13 09:39:06 johnx, Nothing else for now. Just wanted to know if the application can install itself, run, and uninstall properly. Mar 13 09:39:42 johnx, That's a good idea. Don't know who to contact specifically for that though. Mar 13 09:39:51 fureddo, what app is it and what language did you write it in? its good to see people trying to target the platform even without devices Mar 13 09:40:07 all the menu items have "? / " in front of them. is that intentional? Mar 13 09:40:38 Are you using PR1.1? Mar 13 09:40:51 * lcuk sits up at big computer for first time in 3 days Mar 13 09:41:21 lcuk, For more details: http://tomotko.sourceforge.net Mar 13 09:41:38 lcuk, It's written in C++/Qt-4.6 Mar 13 09:41:59 wow. while trying to install a screenshot app I managed to kill the app manager, but your application seems nice and stable ;) Mar 13 09:41:59 cool beans then Mar 13 09:42:38 johnx, SHIFT+CTRL+P automatic built in screenshot tool Mar 13 09:42:39 johnx: muhaha Mar 13 09:42:46 ha, Zaurus love. I bought a C3100 when that was new, and a C3000 before it. I sold those and remember the Zaurus well. Mar 13 09:42:48 johnx. I think your ? bug is related to this: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=40875 Mar 13 09:43:30 johnx, The ? bug should not be there anymore on this version. Mar 13 09:43:46 ah, maybe I don't have the latest version then. let me check Mar 13 09:44:00 * DocScrutinizer suggests a df -h / to johnx Mar 13 09:44:26 DocScrutinizer, a whopping 29.9M left on / :P Mar 13 09:44:34 johnx, The latest version is found in extras-devel and named tomotko 0.11.2-9fremantle0. Mar 13 09:44:41 nah, it's more of an id10T error I think Mar 13 09:44:58 :-P Mar 13 09:45:01 I didn't do an update before doing the install Mar 13 09:45:11 * lcuk hopes to give johnx more space soon :) Mar 13 09:45:22 did anyone do boot from SD yet? Mar 13 09:45:35 johnx, I have uploaded it 1 hou and a half ago. Mar 13 09:45:35 I bet Stskeeps did Mar 13 09:45:38 im not sure about maemo itself, mer does Mar 13 09:45:52 lcuk, <_< Mar 13 09:46:22 i think theres issues because the rootfs and opt are in different places Mar 13 09:46:44 johnx youd be good on community too Mar 13 09:46:56 hey, wow! one update available and it's tomotko :) Mar 13 09:46:58 errr, how's boot supposed to care? Mar 13 09:47:03 pupnik, hmm? community what? Mar 13 09:47:28 community council Mar 13 09:47:40 lcuk: isn't location of /opt a mere question of kernel mounting the right thing? Mar 13 09:47:41 DocScrutinizer, its not, but on boot it configures the /opt stuff and so oyu would have 2 OSes sharing one /opt path Mar 13 09:47:42 that smacks of effort Mar 13 09:48:11 not much, more chatting and some pr Mar 13 09:48:15 lcuk: aah, right Mar 13 09:48:20 DocScrutinizer: you too Mar 13 09:48:34 pupnik, I don't really want to do PR :) I'd rather hack on dead-end stuff like usual Mar 13 09:48:47 pupnik: err what? Mar 13 09:49:07 * lcuk is pleased the pills have worked today Mar 13 09:49:11 you have a good feel for what the core community likes, what differentiates the product class.. Mar 13 09:49:20 johnx: I did not say it before, Thank You. Mar 13 09:49:38 pupnik: my karma is negative ;-P Mar 13 09:49:40 lucent, no worries :) Mar 13 09:49:51 * lcuk goes lying down to sleep whilst i can Mar 13 09:49:52 cyas later Mar 13 09:49:55 hah nice job Mar 13 09:49:55 lucent, just glad I didn't brick both our phones playing amateur detective :D Mar 13 09:50:04 'later lcuk Mar 13 09:50:15 it's somewhat reassuring to know I'm not the only one to experience a problem Mar 13 09:50:18 ttah lcuk Mar 13 09:50:31 Bye lcuk Mar 13 09:50:59 pupnik, I might have a feel for it, but honestly I'm looking forward to doing projects where I don't have to make anyone else happy Mar 13 09:51:29 oki Mar 13 09:51:35 sales driven dev is such pain Mar 13 09:51:43 as opposed to research driven Mar 13 09:51:54 its not like you become an unpaid dev for t.m.o Mar 13 09:52:01 I do IT at work. I make things work behind the scenes, I make people happy, and I don't resent my users or anything, but I don't have the energy to do it from home after work as well Mar 13 09:52:15 gotcha Mar 13 09:53:03 also, if I get into any project that faces users I tend to automatically try to make them happy :) I'm actually looking forward to doing something obscure Mar 13 09:53:30 like debian for toasters or wall plugs or something Mar 13 09:54:03 I think the sport of curling is obscure. Mar 13 09:54:19 johnx: are you a coder? Mar 13 09:54:20 pro curler Mar 13 09:54:25 * DocScrutinizer wonders where on this planet it's xmas time, as he gets credit all the time for 2 days now XP Mar 13 09:54:26 that'd look deadly on the CV :P Mar 13 09:54:34 lucent, more like a hacker? or something? Mar 13 09:54:46 dregin: specify? hair stylist or olymian? Mar 13 09:54:50 *olympian Mar 13 09:54:53 usually people like to hate me rather :-) Mar 13 09:54:54 BOTH Mar 13 09:55:06 actually I think my friend's roommate does curling ... Mar 13 09:56:25 johnx: rtos for toilet paper Mar 13 09:56:36 DocScrutinizer, they have that already Mar 13 09:56:43 shit Mar 13 09:57:01 or was that a book? Mar 13 09:57:28 it was something about sensors for measuring your diet by what comes out the other end or something Mar 13 09:57:30 nah, ebook reader is a poor toilet paper :-P Mar 13 09:58:10 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toilets_in_Japan#Future_developments Mar 13 09:58:16 dregin: make it more exciting, instead of "brushers" you have clients on chairs and portable salon equipment Mar 13 09:58:25 hot air hair dryers, curling irons Mar 13 09:58:26 johnx, Have you updated the application? Mar 13 09:58:31 been there, seen that :-D Mar 13 09:58:36 hair clippings to slow the stone Mar 13 09:59:03 the potential for van-gough-worthy bodily injury due to a misplaced scissors Mar 13 09:59:10 the potential for this is endless Mar 13 09:59:17 even think I took a photo before a *had* to use one of those Mar 13 09:59:37 fureddo, I tried to but it told that some dependencies were "missing." HAM (application manager) didn't want to upgrade my copy of libqt4-maemo5-svg and friends. I did an apt-get upgrade and it pulled in new versions Mar 13 09:59:46 going to try the tomotko update again Mar 13 10:00:35 ok, admittedly wasn't Japan, just Taipei Mar 13 10:00:42 lucent, ooooh. find some way to involve straight razor shaving Mar 13 10:01:23 johnx: not this year, don't trust Canada to host such a thing Mar 13 10:01:50 wait, aren't the olympics over? Mar 13 10:02:11 johnx: not for the Russians Mar 13 10:02:21 the defeat will continue to crush them Mar 13 10:02:39 * lucent adds a trailing echo "...indefinitely.... indefinitely...." Mar 13 10:04:32 johnx: (taipei toilet) was more like that one: http://www.techradar.com/news/world-of-tech/future-tech/panasonic-super-toilet-knows-what-you-want-470448 Mar 13 10:05:19 johnx, I'm going to eat dinner. Will be back in 40-50 minutes. I hope you will still be there. Mar 13 10:06:16 o/ Mar 13 10:06:42 unrelated question, what is the point of a directory that has permissions 000 ? Mar 13 10:06:44 fureddo, I'm running into weird dependency issues. (then off to bed) Mar 13 10:07:01 lucent, keeping things *really* safe :) Mar 13 10:07:07 from WHAT! Mar 13 10:07:32 johnx, Hmmm... I hope that tomotko doesn't screw your device... Mar 13 10:07:45 fureddo, nah. don't worry about that :) Mar 13 10:07:51 it seems like apt is actually confused Mar 13 10:07:55 I'm trying to figure out why Mar 13 10:07:58 I'm reading this from an old Debian GNU/Linux install, it's like a path of /var/cache/setup-tool-backends/debug with permissions root.root 000 Mar 13 10:08:13 johnx, Ok. See you later. Or another day then. Mar 13 10:08:13 all the dependencies look satisfied, but it's still insisting it won't install Mar 13 10:08:17 boggles. my. mind. Mar 13 10:08:24 'later fureddo Mar 13 10:08:48 maybe an easy way to prevent it getting grepped? or executed? Mar 13 10:08:53 lucent: many tools will consider permissions Mar 13 10:09:08 so eg root running vi on a non-w file Mar 13 10:09:15 vi will ask "are you sure" Mar 13 10:09:37 or ... maybe the debian guys had something to hide from the local root user? Mar 13 10:09:43 har Mar 13 10:09:47 probably a map to hidden treasure Mar 13 10:09:51 or terrorist plans Mar 13 10:10:04 or a terrorist treasure map Mar 13 10:10:09 I'd lean towards suspicion of debian terrorist plans Mar 13 10:10:32 the 'treasure map' leads to FreeBSD installation Mar 13 10:10:48 we will terrorize you with obsessively stable releases! and the specter of ooooold desktop environments Mar 13 10:12:07 I was just glad that the hard disk corruption landed on the part of the ext3 filesystem that contained debian stuff, and not corrupting my user files Mar 13 10:13:39 johnx: lucent: mointpoint comes to mind. Also "lost+found" alike folders used by the fs itself Mar 13 10:13:47 wow bummer. haven't hit fs corruption on linux recently Mar 13 10:14:11 not in /var/cache/setup-tool-backends/debug though Mar 13 10:14:21 and by recently, I mean in the last 10 years (that wasn't actually caused by hardware) Mar 13 10:14:37 DocScrutinizer: lost+found is usually 700 Mar 13 10:14:46 yep Mar 13 10:15:10 000 permissions might be result of fs corruption Mar 13 10:15:15 not entirely certain :( Mar 13 10:15:18 lucent: just a freewheeling brainstorming Mar 13 10:15:55 I just want to recover my raver music to load on N900, and some clever source code I wrote a couple years ago Mar 13 10:16:06 fureddo, well, I guess this proves I'm mildly dyslexic. For the life of me I could't understand how it could complain about: "tomotko: Depends: libtq4-maemo5-gui but it is not installable" when libqt4-maemo5-gui was installed and updated ... :) Mar 13 10:16:18 */debug might mean it's home of files that pass their handles to userland any other means than usual fs-access Mar 13 10:16:36 hello everyone Mar 13 10:16:50 hey wazd Mar 13 10:16:56 how's it going? Mar 13 10:17:06 johnx: oh! long time no see :) Mar 13 10:17:16 yeah :D Mar 13 10:17:21 what have you been up to? Mar 13 10:18:47 johnx: aw, I have a terrible times with my work :) Mar 13 10:19:12 johnx: too much :) Mar 13 10:19:26 bummer. sorry to hear about that. we just finished at release at work this, so I'm ready to relax a bit Mar 13 10:19:45 then I have a super-fun mail server transition (yay!) Mar 13 10:20:44 lucent: heh, maybe it's a mere blocker directory stopping all processes from creating debug/foo files Mar 13 10:21:34 lucent: also there might be ACLs attached to override simple permissions Mar 13 10:22:34 or giving root write permissions on it is the way to enable debugging :) Mar 13 10:22:42 easier than parsing config files Mar 13 10:24:17 johnx: that's what I meant to say Mar 13 10:24:57 kinda makes me want to design whole systems that just infer things because certain files are present and have permissions set to certain things Mar 13 10:25:24 but then again, that was the whole sysvinit system, right? :D Mar 13 10:25:38 hehehe Mar 13 10:26:22 touch /fastboot Mar 13 10:28:30 but make sure it has the sticky bit set and is setgid with the group "fans.of.johnx" Mar 13 10:28:38 now we're talking Mar 13 10:31:43 johnx, I'm back. Any progress? Mar 13 10:32:16 * johnx repastes Mar 13 10:32:17 fureddo, well, I guess this proves I'm mildly dyslexic. For the life of me I could't understand how it could complain about: "tomotko: Depends: libtq4-maemo5-gui but it is not installable" when libqt4-maemo5-gui was installed and updated ... :) Mar 13 10:32:58 johnx, Ok, so it's qt instead of tq... Mar 13 10:33:12 johnx, So the mistake is on my side then, right? Mar 13 10:33:22 yup Mar 13 10:34:57 johnx, Ok, I will upload a new version right away. Mar 13 10:36:18 I assume it'll have to go through the builder again? Mar 13 10:38:50 johnx, Yes, I'm uploading at the moment. Mar 13 10:39:09 how long do things take to get through the builder these days? Mar 13 10:39:49 johnx, It's faster than it used to be, I think. It should be ready in 10 minutes. Mar 13 10:39:56 wow Mar 13 10:40:02 alright. I'll stick around and test Mar 13 10:40:16 johnx, What time is it for you? Mar 13 10:40:29 2:40AM :) Mar 13 10:41:17 johnx, That's late! Thank you so much. Mar 13 10:41:25 I'm up anyways Mar 13 10:41:35 reading codinghorror, watching my zaurus compile xorg Mar 13 10:42:10 johnx, Wow, compiling on the zaurus... That must take an eternity. Mar 13 10:42:19 we'll find out Mar 13 10:42:25 otherwise it just sits there anyways Mar 13 10:42:49 this SD card is faster than the one I used to use, and xorg has gotten smaller since they modularized it Mar 13 10:42:57 might only take half a day if I remember Mar 13 10:43:04 (as long as it doesn't bail out somewhere) Mar 13 10:43:05 johnx, Yeah, now that you have a N900, nothing much to do with the Zaurus, I guess. Mar 13 10:43:22 actually. the n800 obsoleted the zaurus Mar 13 10:43:31 64MB is too cramped for web browsing Mar 13 10:43:38 *of RAM Mar 13 10:43:46 128MB is kind of a bare minimum I think Mar 13 10:44:13 johnx, I see. I still use my Zaurus daily. Mar 13 10:44:22 any browsing? Mar 13 10:44:51 (also, the charging/battery circuitry in mine got wet, so it pretty much needs to be plugged in to run for more than 20 minutes) Mar 13 10:44:51 links2 -g works great with little ram, but it's not suitable for web2.0 Mar 13 10:44:53 fureddo, No, not at all. Mainly toMOTko, japanese dictionnary (ZTen) and agenda. Mar 13 10:45:25 I need to find a good lightweight RSS reader with graphics Mar 13 10:45:30 then I'd be a lot happier Mar 13 10:47:00 osso-rss-feed-reader? Mar 13 10:47:31 pulls in gecko doesn't it? Mar 13 10:47:41 maybe Mar 13 10:47:48 point taken Mar 13 10:48:02 but it is open source, right? Mar 13 10:48:09 yeah Mar 13 10:48:34 I wonder if it works with that switchable browser engine EAL thing Mar 13 10:50:18 argh. stupid IRC clients dying on me as I make announcements. Mar 13 10:50:25 did my previous one get through? Mar 13 10:50:38 not sire Mar 13 10:50:40 sure Mar 13 10:50:46 then I'll repeat just in case. Mar 13 10:50:46 ahem Mar 13 10:50:47 I don't think so Mar 13 10:50:55 was your announcement "ping timeout"? :) Mar 13 10:50:59 lol Mar 13 10:51:00 no Mar 13 10:51:03 http://github.com/millenomi/cumin Mar 13 10:51:15 me being an iPhoneista trying a ton of approaches to cross-platform app dev. Mar 13 10:51:18 johnx, The application was built successfully. It's still not available. Should be in a few minutes. Mar 13 10:51:36 this is an Apple Core Foundationalike framework that is designed to be built via gcc -shared -o x.so *.c. no deps, no config, no nuthin'. Mar 13 10:51:55 cool Mar 13 10:52:13 will mimic most CF stuff in time (data structures, run loops, stuff) and be designed for integration into foreign UI toolkits and run loops (say, Qt). Mar 13 10:52:14 cool, so straight C? no, OOC? Mar 13 10:52:20 OO C. Mar 13 10:52:28 C89 all of it. Mar 13 10:53:16 I'm not enough of a programmer (especially C) to know if that was difficult, but it doesn't sound trivial Mar 13 10:53:31 think glib. Mar 13 10:53:38 it's not difficult, just time consuming. Mar 13 10:54:36 things it should build on: Maemo, Android NDK, webOS PDK, iPhone, non-embedded platforms (unit tests run on Mac i386, x86_64, PowerPC). Mar 13 10:54:43 johnx, Ok, it's there. Mar 13 10:54:50 #end // announcement Mar 13 10:55:10 millenomi, are you using it to port something? or just as a service to others? Mar 13 10:55:17 both Mar 13 10:56:12 interesting. I'll be sure to point people coming from the iPhone world at that page Mar 13 11:02:36 fureddo, installing ... Mar 13 11:03:18 johnx, I hope I haven't forgotten any dependencies. Mar 13 11:03:27 nope Mar 13 11:03:30 all good this time :) Mar 13 11:03:41 johnx, And the ? bug? Mar 13 11:03:53 though I'm not a good dep tester because I have too much stuff installed Mar 13 11:04:17 menus look and work well Mar 13 11:04:26 though the font got pretty small O_o Mar 13 11:04:39 johnx, You can change it in the Preferences. Mar 13 11:05:19 johnx, You will find a font for labels and fields. And uou can set the size a little bit larger. Mar 13 11:06:30 yup. I set it to "Nokia Sans" "Large" and it's only a bit smaller than other apps Mar 13 11:06:34 looks good though Mar 13 11:07:08 johnx, To really test the application, you should import a glossary. But it's a little bit late maybe. Mar 13 11:07:49 johnx, Just in case, you can find some glossaries here: http://tomotko.sourceforge.net/en/glossaries.shtml Mar 13 11:08:08 johnx, Do not unzip the glossary file, import it as is. Mar 13 11:09:01 * johnx tests Mar 13 11:09:20 * johnx should really pick his Japanese up again O_o; Mar 13 11:10:03 johnx, Once a glossary is imported, you must check the glossaries (and parent folders) and some terms in the glossary. Then, Start Quiz. Mar 13 11:11:59 johnx, The words that will be asked in the quiz are those that are reachable from the root (with a checked path). Ok, this sentence is probably hard to understand but maybe seeing the interface, you will understand it. Mar 13 11:12:38 yeah, looks like it's working Mar 13 11:12:49 my kanji is awful (embarassing even) Mar 13 11:12:56 johnx, That's good news! Mar 13 11:13:26 johnx, Does the help work? Mar 13 11:14:01 yup. even has that cool kinetic scroll Mar 13 11:14:19 johnx, Is the application responds well? Quick enough? Mar 13 11:14:28 actually the kinetic scroll seems faster than some a lot of the bundled apps Mar 13 11:14:33 definitely faster than the browser Mar 13 11:14:51 Cool. Mar 13 11:14:53 even does the accelerated scroll trick right Mar 13 11:15:21 I need beep for maemo irssi private messages! Mar 13 11:16:34 johnx, Thank you very much for your time. It's very very appreciated. Mar 13 11:16:57 sure. you've even tricked me into installing something to help with my japanese :) Mar 13 11:17:15 thanks for the hard work on the program Mar 13 11:17:23 can i change fn+c (£) to tab? Mar 13 11:17:32 johnx, ahaha! Gambatte kudasai! Mar 13 11:17:35 whivh file to modify? Mar 13 11:17:39 which* Mar 13 11:18:29 haaaaai, gambarimasu Mar 13 11:18:50 johnx, :-) The application is not over yet but it's functional enough IMHO. Mar 13 12:17:37 FIQ: out there in /usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols/nokia_vndr land Mar 13 12:18:31 * Arif_ yawns Mar 13 12:19:13 FIQ: google for more, I think someone has a page describing stuff, or some threads somewheres Mar 13 12:22:34 * ShadowJK looks at gnuplot in extras Mar 13 12:22:52 the description os copypasted from something else Mar 13 12:24:00 gnuplot works well for me Mar 13 12:24:17 that's not the point Mar 13 12:24:26 yeah Mar 13 12:24:28 well.. does printing work? Mar 13 12:24:54 and where's the -nox version mentioned in the description? Mar 13 12:26:06 not in user/ Mar 13 12:29:51 i want a quick and dirty gstreamer video chat direct to afriends n900. through irssi Mar 13 12:30:12 And cacalib? Mar 13 12:30:47 I suppose it's plausible. Mar 13 12:30:59 i dont use cacalib, do i? Mar 13 12:31:00 yeah, video over irc Mar 13 12:31:06 how cool is that :ninja: Mar 13 12:31:18 it would have to be dcc Mar 13 12:31:29 dcc, v4l. Mar 13 12:31:30 not in case of a conference call Mar 13 12:31:33 irc servers wont let you push much data through them Mar 13 12:31:42 mencoder - then ctcp VIDEOCALL Mar 13 12:31:52 with the port you want to recieve on Mar 13 12:32:14 A script to on recieving VIDEOCALL, to startup mplayer Mar 13 12:32:41 SpeedEvil: ShadowJK ++ Mar 13 12:33:16 you will need libcaca on slow connections Mar 13 12:33:17 testing could be done with pc and n900 too Mar 13 12:34:31 conference call is not part of use case really. also leads to external server Mar 13 12:35:10 pupnik: or multiple windows Mar 13 12:35:24 you guys know anyone who has played with this? Mar 13 12:35:42 I've streamed video from my n900 to my laptop Mar 13 12:35:56 using mencoder/mplayer and netcat Mar 13 12:36:29 would you prefer rear cam to show other stuff + have some quality? Mar 13 12:37:02 not tried streaming from frontcam - thoguh suppose it'd work fine Mar 13 12:37:30 SpeedEvil: how did you do that? Mar 13 12:37:57 i would generally prefer the use case "here is what im talking about" (show object for a minute) Mar 13 12:39:46 pupnik: it was something like mencoder tv:// -of - -ovc whatever -nosound -fps 20|netcat Mar 13 12:39:52 I forget the details, sorry Mar 13 12:40:06 np. looks doable Mar 13 12:41:01 how are focus / lighting managed by the mencoder / v4l ? Mar 13 12:41:17 "fixed"? Mar 13 12:41:31 usually it's done in a driver Mar 13 12:42:06 lighting is probably driver Mar 13 12:42:14 focus is probably infinite or random with mplayer Mar 13 12:42:20 mplayer thinks it's viewing tv ;-) Mar 13 12:42:51 hello Mar 13 12:43:01 just bought a nokia n800, should arrive next week Mar 13 12:43:16 congrats. Mar 13 12:43:19 Also, color balance is off with mplayer... Mar 13 12:43:25 I guess that's fixed in software too Mar 13 12:43:35 I should find a cheap bluetooth keyboard for it Mar 13 12:43:49 how well does it work as an mp3 player? Mar 13 12:43:50 lighting doesn't seem to autoadjust Mar 13 12:44:05 * SpeedEvil has never had a n800. Mar 13 12:44:19 I suspect the n900 users swamp 800 here - but still some left Mar 13 12:45:02 N900 ftw :P Mar 13 12:45:09 n800 has a music player and good speakers and 2 sd slots. should be great for that Mar 13 12:45:38 for some reason mine only lasts for about 6 hours sitting idle in the pocket with just X chat running, connected with HSDPA Mar 13 12:45:41 why would that be? Mar 13 12:45:56 * ShadowJK has an N800 Mar 13 12:46:25 that xchat is keeping the radio active Mar 13 12:46:27 The N810 has better speakers, but N800 is probably still better speakers than N900. N900 has vastly better headphone output. N810 and N800 have pretty similar headphone output Mar 13 12:46:40 pupnik, yes. Mar 13 12:46:44 is the headphone output any good? Mar 13 12:47:03 in n800 Mar 13 12:47:17 It has a high noise floor Mar 13 12:47:25 pupnik: ok, think switching it to GSM only is an idea? Mar 13 12:48:01 i dont know what the power ratio is, but yes Mar 13 12:48:02 But it depends on your listening habbits and your headphones. If you're the kind of person that listens with the volume set to 1 on a scale from 0-16, you wont be happy. If you're the kind that listens with the volume halfway up or full, you wont notice. Mar 13 12:48:12 ok thanks Mar 13 12:48:24 Funnyface, 2g uses alot less power for xchat Mar 13 12:48:42 wlan too, unless you have a crappy access point. Mar 13 12:49:00 adhoc here :) Mar 13 12:49:17 adhoc uses enormous amounts of power :) Mar 13 12:49:47 hope next device gives us realtime power use of radios, screen, memory Mar 13 12:50:01 moo all Mar 13 12:50:16 pupnik: You can probably do this with the current device Mar 13 12:50:21 anyway, as far as I know, the wifi should be disabled, unless it's still active after I quit joikuspot Mar 13 12:50:26 RST38h, it's closed though Mar 13 12:50:29 pupnik: Just need to know where to look Mar 13 12:50:42 ShadowJK: Closed but not impossible: Nokia does this on Symbian Mar 13 12:51:03 RST38h, we've seen screenshots of Nokia Energy Profiler on N900 Mar 13 12:51:07 what is the latest maemo os for the n800? Mar 13 12:51:16 Maemo 4.1 "Diablo" Mar 13 12:51:24 also known as OS2008 Mar 13 12:51:37 thanks Mar 13 12:51:46 will it be supported in the future? Mar 13 12:51:51 would help if early users could log power drain on various components and graph those along with running apps Mar 13 12:52:25 ShadowJK: =) Maybe they can release it? =) Mar 13 12:52:32 community still updates. hardware is fixed anyway Mar 13 12:52:43 "- the biggest downside for 2G is that a data connection is suspended when taking a call, but is resumed afterwards. so you wouldn't be able to check email/surf during a call, if you need to do that" hmm I never experienced that with my winmo phone.. Mar 13 12:52:44 RST38h, the reply is "maybe" everytime someone prods them Mar 13 12:53:16 Funnyface, the real answer is more complicated than that Mar 13 12:53:58 There are some devices that have two 2g radios, one for managing calls and one for managing data. Then there's a way for devices with one radio to do both voice and data on the same channel, which N900 supports, but very few operators support it. Mar 13 12:54:02 pupnik: I've got a partially built hardware device. Mar 13 12:54:21 pupnik: also - the key energy saving thing in the CPU is turned off. Mar 13 12:54:32 pupnik: 'smartvoltage' or whatever it's called Mar 13 12:54:44 I don't notice any difference with it on or off... Mar 13 12:54:59 https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?format=multiple&id=7633 Mar 13 12:55:00 meh Mar 13 12:55:02 smartreflex Mar 13 12:55:05 Maybe it changes standby time from 7 days to 14 days or something, but standby isn't my main use case :P Mar 13 12:55:08 yeah Mar 13 12:55:11 mine neither Mar 13 12:55:17 And It works for me. Mar 13 12:55:24 I've never run out of power. Mar 13 12:55:29 power use is pretty simple really, it's all about the wakeups! :-) Mar 13 12:55:30 I do charge it at night though Mar 13 12:55:36 It's really not. Mar 13 12:55:47 i use most energy with screen, podcasts, websites.. afaict Mar 13 12:55:59 It's more about quiescant power consumption, and how fast you can get back there. Mar 13 12:56:21 The first release of xchat on maemo5 kept the CPU from reaching the off state :-) Mar 13 12:56:57 does x server seem like it uses a lot to you? Mar 13 12:57:18 try mplayer without -quiet and it goes op a lot Mar 13 12:57:31 That's x-terminal rendering the statusline.. Mar 13 12:57:38 through the compositing.. Mar 13 12:57:42 that's bound to use alot.. Mar 13 13:00:05 is it possible to plugin in a usb keyboard in n800? Mar 13 13:00:10 no Mar 13 13:00:13 easy enough to avoid. wondering if terminal could be optimized to lower wakeups in irssi Mar 13 13:00:20 there is some usb host mode thing Mar 13 13:00:27 Oh Mar 13 13:00:27 sorry Mar 13 13:00:33 N800, yeah, that's possible Mar 13 13:00:43 without any external power? Mar 13 13:00:47 just plugging it in Mar 13 13:00:54 I think N800 can provide 100mA power Mar 13 13:01:06 great Mar 13 13:01:08 so "most" keyboards probably would work on that Mar 13 13:01:21 now I only have to find the smallest usb keyboard Mar 13 13:01:24 I have an N800 but I've only tried host mode on N810.. I suspect they're pretty similar though Mar 13 13:02:16 how do I connect physically Mar 13 13:02:26 are there ready made cables Mar 13 13:03:28 I used the included PC <-> N810 cable, with a female-female USB adapter.. Mar 13 13:03:38 ANd yeah there are ready made cables for N800 atleast Mar 13 13:04:12 any way to both charge and use the device in host mode at the same time then? :P Mar 13 13:05:57 Sure. You plug the charger into the 2mm charge port. Mar 13 13:06:03 Which the N800 and N810 have. Mar 13 13:06:22 N900 doesn't have hostmode to begin with, so the question has no relevance on N900 ;-) Mar 13 13:31:02 I've my n900 since 4 days Mar 13 13:31:09 is there any good "unpacker" (tar, bzip2, gzip, zip, rar) with GUI for the maemo5? Mar 13 13:53:39 maybe someone should write an IRC relay that transmits the chat only once every X seconds, say 30 secs, so the phone doesn't have to turn on the radio once for every single message Mar 13 13:53:39 In my app I need to know if tweakr is installed. What would be the most reliable way of telling? Mar 13 13:54:09 then if someone says your name, or you type a message, it passes on the messages right away Mar 13 13:54:42 mhh. dpkg -s I guess Mar 13 13:55:44 mh no that doesn't work. It shows up if it was installed at a previous time Mar 13 13:56:26 gah apt is overcomplicated. -.- Mar 13 13:56:50 what are you trying to do? Mar 13 13:57:00 ha, above Mar 13 13:57:05 dpkg -l tweakr seems fine Mar 13 13:57:20 Corsac: that's some rediculous output Mar 13 13:57:37 just redirect to /dev/null and get the return code? Mar 13 13:57:47 http://pastie.org/867859 Mar 13 13:57:58 Shapeshifter: or parse /var/lib/dpkg-status Mar 13 13:58:04 s/-/\// Mar 13 13:58:10 Corsac: mhhh. Mar 13 13:58:18 dpkg -l does exactly the same btw Mar 13 13:58:49 yeah Mar 13 13:59:16 Corsac: and the return code is always 0 Mar 13 13:59:23 even if its not installed Mar 13 13:59:27 hmhm, not here but I'm trying on my sid box Mar 13 13:59:55 Corsac: try on the n900 Mar 13 14:00:29 ~ $ dpkg -s tweak >/dev/null 2>&1; echo $? Mar 13 14:00:29 1 Mar 13 14:00:29 ~ $ dpkg -s tweakr >/dev/null 2>&1; echo $? Mar 13 14:00:29 0 Mar 13 14:03:18 Corsac: not if you had tweakr installed at a previous time Mar 13 14:04:28 ... it still amazes me how people can actually say that apt is good and clear and all. it's incredibly complicated, slow and insane Mar 13 14:04:29 hhm Mar 13 14:05:18 Shapeshifter: you might be interested by --status-fd, too Mar 13 14:06:09 but anyway, reading dpkg manpage could help you on that Mar 13 14:06:45 * VDVsx mooos Mar 13 14:06:49 me moos back Mar 13 14:06:51 +/ Mar 13 14:06:58 :) Mar 13 14:07:26 Corsac: good thing there are no manpages on the n900 xD (yeah i know I'll google it...) Mar 13 14:07:48 Shapeshifter: maybe on scratchbox? Mar 13 14:08:03 what a rediculous package management system... Mar 13 14:08:16 dpkg-query -f'${Status}' --show tweakr; echo $? --> 0 Mar 13 14:08:25 dpkg-query -f'${Status}' --show microb-engine; echo $? --> 0 Mar 13 14:11:44 and if people like apt, and dislike rpm, I tremble of fear how bad rpm must be. Mar 13 14:12:42 Shapeshifter: you don't make much sense Mar 13 14:12:54 apt doesn't make much sense. Mar 13 14:13:07 I fail to see why dpkg-query should return you anything else than success in that case Mar 13 14:14:00 if you're too lazy to parse the output, fine, but the return code stuff won't help you there Mar 13 14:14:06 Corsac: yeah sure. It's just that there are like a billiong different statii for packages, like, installed, not-reconfigured... I mean, who on earth needs all these Mar 13 14:14:30 Shapeshifter: we do Mar 13 14:15:09 Corsac: yeah ok. Mar 13 14:16:26 Corsac: but this means I have to parse not only for one thing, but like 10 Mar 13 14:16:46 Shapeshifter: the fact that an end-user doesn't really need to know about dozens of status doesn't mean the infrastructure don't need them Mar 13 14:17:04 Corsac: well I know that the pacman infrastructure doesn't need them. Mar 13 14:17:28 I'm not exactly sure you can really compare anyway Mar 13 14:17:35 http://pastie.org/867870 I mean, seriously. Mar 13 14:17:55 install ok installed, deinstall ok config-files, No packages found matching. Mar 13 14:18:07 this output is hopelessly random. But I'll stop here. :) Mar 13 14:18:25 Shapeshifter: yeah please stop until you read dpkg manpage Mar 13 14:19:45 * Shapeshifter is giggling at the "half-installed" package state. Mar 13 14:21:44 Shapeshifter: there's a big diagram which explains all the states, they're not just there for shits and giggles, it's so it can actually record the state of each package on the system as it makes certain transitions Mar 13 14:22:02 what states would your package manager have? uninstalled, installed, OH SHIT ITS ALL BROKEN LOLZ Mar 13 14:23:50 Robot101: installed, not-installed. Mar 13 14:24:18 or better even, just "installed" Mar 13 14:24:40 yeah, great. have a cookie. :) Mar 13 14:25:47 Robot101: I am sure it's not worth discussing, and I calmed down and I'm sorry for trolling. So, I'll leave it at that. (read pacman's manpage if you really are interested in what kind of package manager I like: http://www.archlinux.org/pacman/pacman.8.html ) Mar 13 14:31:55 Shapeshifter: (good thing there are no manpages on the n900 xD) even better there's not even a mandb package in extras-devel or tools repo :-(( Mar 13 14:33:13 DocScrutinizer: well yeah :| Mar 13 14:33:15 Shapeshifter: I'm fine with people reinventing package management again and again, it's just sad nobody is able to do it properly Mar 13 14:34:03 Corsac: *shrug*. pacman does a very good job, is fast, easy to use, packaging is simple. only thing it lacks is package signing imo. Mar 13 14:34:29 other then that its near perfect. for me at least. and I personally think apt is incredibly overloaded with features nobody will ever need. and it's slow. Mar 13 14:35:02 Shapeshifter: if you think packaging is simple, you already lost Mar 13 14:35:15 Corsac: huh Mar 13 14:35:19 please explain. Mar 13 14:35:53 Shapeshifter: package management is a bit more than putting stuff in tarballs and tell geeks to install them Mar 13 14:36:20 Corsac: and? Mar 13 14:36:43 Shapeshifter: and it's _not_ simple, and if you think that, fine for you Mar 13 14:36:45 packaging is simple, if the package is sane Mar 13 14:38:00 Corsac: are you saying packaging is not simple in general? as in, it's always hard? why on earth would that be. Mar 13 14:38:16 http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Creating_Packages easy. Mar 13 14:39:06 archlinux is fine for few geeks in a garage Mar 13 14:39:36 xD Mar 13 14:40:46 hi Mar 13 14:41:49 i have a small upstart script that lets me enable usb internet tethering without messing with ppp Mar 13 14:42:02 http://dpaste.com/171543/ <| on the n900 Mar 13 14:42:07 http://paste.pocoo.org/show/189156/ <| on my laptop Mar 13 14:42:33 the problem is, i'd like to get iptables rules get flushed when removing the usb cable Mar 13 14:42:56 i tried watching for upstart events (initctl events), but none gets emitted Mar 13 14:43:55 any ideas? Mar 13 14:55:13 one idea: how about udev rules.d? Mar 13 14:55:50 there was some udev event monitoring tool as well Mar 13 14:56:08 should help you to find out the events issues when the cable is being plugged/removed Mar 13 14:58:37 udevadm monitor Mar 13 15:06:45 DocScrutinizer: ping Mar 13 15:07:41 DocScrutinizer: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=565417&postcount=160 Mar 13 15:08:02 no idea about the truth of it Mar 13 15:08:57 * Stskeeps disassembles his freerunner Mar 13 15:09:18 Stskeeps: why? Mar 13 15:09:47 well, my usb connector was pushed inside by a devilish zoom2 usb plug Mar 13 15:09:50 ShadowJK: seems sane, though it's most likely bq27010 if any of the bq27xxx series Mar 13 15:09:54 so just pondering if it's solder or pad Mar 13 15:10:13 Stskeeps: usually solder Mar 13 15:10:28 as in, the connector is soldered? :P Mar 13 15:11:16 DocScrutinizer, well the schematics does have the "fuel gauge" bit connected to same i2c bus as the flash light, but it seems connected to a "HDQ" pin on the chip instead of a i2c pin? Mar 13 15:12:29 bme is doing stuff like... ioctl(4, 0x720, 0xbecb899c) Mar 13 15:12:35 where 4 is /dev/i2c-2 Mar 13 15:12:36 ShadowJK: that's why I say bq27000 is unlikely. HDQ over I2C is insane. There's a bq27xxx variant with I2C iirc Mar 13 15:12:58 I2C_SMBUS 0x0720 /* SMBus transfer */ Mar 13 15:13:37 Stskeeps: usually the pads survive Mar 13 15:14:00 DocScrutinizer: also, there's this thing where you can't charge if battery is too low or something? Mar 13 15:14:07 (yes, i'm trying to make my FR useful) Mar 13 15:14:32 Stskeeps: should be fixed with more recent devices Mar 13 15:15:37 mmk Mar 13 15:15:47 but shouldn't you be able to boot nevertheless, or? Mar 13 15:15:53 (not sure if it boots with usb only) Mar 13 15:16:04 ShadowJK: fuel gauge is on I2C_2, same as USB bat charger Mar 13 15:16:59 Stskeeps: if the device is fixed, you should be able to boot via USB wallcharger only (means without bat) Mar 13 15:17:06 hmm, k Mar 13 15:18:14 ShadowJK: (I2C_2) ...and flash driver, yes Mar 13 15:18:31 blah, i do need to get that connector soldered :/ Mar 13 15:18:53 and LCM Mar 13 15:19:38 Stskeeps: consider glueing it with cyan-acrylic Mar 13 15:19:44 prior to soldering Mar 13 15:21:50 ShadowJK: if that's really a bq27xxx, then you might find this one helpful: http://people.openmoko.org/joerg/battery/bq27k-detail Mar 13 15:24:27 ShadowJK: aah, s/bq27010/bq27200/ ->I2C variant Mar 13 15:26:36 ShadowJK: on bq27200 pin 5 is SDA of I2C. On bq27000 it's HDQ Mar 13 15:30:37 ShadowJK: ""The bq27200 supports the standard IC read, incremental read, quick read, and one byte write functions. The 7-bit device address (ADDR) is the most significant 7 bits of the hex address and is fixed as 1010101. The 8-bit device address is therefore 0xAA or 0xAB for write or read, respectively. Mar 13 15:30:44 "" Mar 13 15:30:55 DocScrutinizer, there was link to datasheet from that tmo thread Mar 13 15:38:32 ShadowJK: well, I'd really like to know if it's actually BQ27200, as that chip is supposed to be monted to the battery, not inside the device. The whole monitoring gets seriously mangled when you remove battery and possibly even replace it with a differently charged one Mar 13 15:38:57 nod Mar 13 15:39:29 you can't do live change of battery Mar 13 15:39:52 (sadly) Mar 13 15:39:57 that's the whole point (well 50% of the whole) Mar 13 15:41:22 even *if* BQ27200 doesn't see a full reset on removal of battery, it might easily end up with incorrect gauge counters as they are based on the battery history of the previous bat Mar 13 15:42:06 if it's cold reset then you need a full discharge/charge/discharge cycle to resync the counters Mar 13 15:42:58 by "full" I mean discharge to lower limit of cell voltage Mar 13 15:48:55 tthere are similar chips for host side design, like bq27505 etc Mar 13 15:50:41 good morn Mar 13 15:52:38 for how long do your batteries last on the N900, when you have social things running on EDGE, with the phone sitting idle in the pocket? Mar 13 15:52:47 e.g. X-chat and MSN Mar 13 15:57:23 aaaaaargh. Mar 13 15:57:49 in scratchbox, gcc is applying the cc1plus parameters in the gcc.specs file _AFTER_ the command line given ones! Mar 13 15:57:54 s/gcc/g++ Mar 13 15:59:06 * DocScrutinizer sighs, as there're odds he'll break a screw on re-assembling N900 Mar 13 15:59:45 DocScrutinizer: new screws! Mar 13 15:59:56 no way to get them today Mar 13 16:00:21 I guess the few spare leftover from FR won't fit :-P Mar 13 16:00:35 say goodbye to neon and c++ with the fremantle toolchain, since -mfpu=vfp is on the specs file :( Mar 13 16:01:42 SpeedEvil: you got me a borked sample, for messing around? XP Mar 13 16:01:57 ? Mar 13 16:02:07 no. Mar 13 16:02:46 well, I guess I simply should dare Mar 13 16:03:06 I'd leave it till I got new screws. Mar 13 16:03:18 in the end who cares about screws :-D Mar 13 16:03:37 * DocScrutinizer sighs Mar 13 16:03:55 SpeedEvil: ok you convinced me to play proper Mar 13 16:04:17 One of the dissasembly videos noted that they broke a screw on reassembly Mar 13 16:04:26 seen that Mar 13 16:04:50 also seen the advice to get new screws, in L3/4 Mar 13 16:05:06 guess they know why Mar 13 16:11:52 Same reason as cylinder head bolts. Mar 13 16:12:02 They're torqued hard enough to deform them Mar 13 16:12:26 funnyface: I get 12-16 hours xchat on edge with /lots/ of channels Mar 13 16:12:43 DocScrutinizer, you disassembled n900? Mar 13 16:12:55 ShadowJK: not yet Mar 13 16:13:06 emphasis on yet Mar 13 16:14:22 I'm roally fed up with missing part names and uncertainity of 'leaked' pre-MP schematics Mar 13 16:22:33 :-P for the ones with eyes to see XP Mar 13 16:22:36 * DocScrutinizer idiot Mar 13 16:22:45 it's a bq27200 Mar 13 16:23:17 p15, location K7 Mar 13 16:24:35 so, next step of operation: find datasheet for bat charger Mar 13 16:26:56 did you just open it... Mar 13 16:28:36 Hello everyone Mar 13 16:30:10 Anyone care to help a new N900 user? Mar 13 16:30:50 ShadowJK: Nokia did, see p.17 of schematics Mar 13 16:31:08 alas epic fail for N1140 bat charger Mar 13 16:31:57 well, at least I hadn't have to learn it the hard way ;-P Mar 13 16:33:46 Can I put extra repos somehow for the N900 to fetch more applications and programs? Mar 13 16:35:02 DrGrov: 2 minutes of reading wiki would tell you Mar 13 16:35:43 heh, fremantle will use eglibc (no surprises) Mar 13 16:35:48 s/fremantle/harmattan Mar 13 16:35:56 DocScrutinizer: oh, sorry about that dumb question. just i'm a bit new, just got my copy of the n900 about 15 hours ago... Mar 13 16:36:22 aah ok. lemme get you a few pointers Mar 13 16:37:22 DocScrutinizer: thanks :) Mar 13 16:37:25 http://wiki.maemo.org/Main_Page http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras#To_enable_Extras_repository_for_pre-PR1.1.2C_just_open_this_link_on_your_tablet. Mar 13 16:38:55 nota bene http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_5/PR1.1#Application_Manager though Mar 13 16:39:05 for pr1.1 it's enabled by default Mar 13 16:40:16 DocScrutinizer: i got myself later yesterday in connection with my first download from the program control panel the maemo 5 update Mar 13 16:40:25 javispedro: url? Mar 13 16:40:25 not 100% sure though what is the version... Mar 13 16:40:45 Stskeeps: http://scratchbox.org/debian/dists/harmattan/main/binary-i386/ Mar 13 16:41:03 ah Mar 13 16:41:05 Stskeeps: nothing serious as you can see :P Mar 13 16:41:46 2009q1 sounds nice Mar 13 16:41:53 DrGrov: You just got an N900? Mar 13 16:42:21 DocScrutinizer: you got any good pointers on applications? i downloaded pidgin since i use it on my pc with linux. then i got mplayer+kmplayer frontend, extra codecs package, wifi eye manager etc. Mar 13 16:42:40 Pavel: yeah, i got it last night. i will check the box now to see which date it was manufactured. Mar 13 16:43:30 DrGrov: sorry, my selection of apps will be mostly useless for your purposes Mar 13 16:43:31 Pavel: ah no can't do that checking... still used to using the N97 lol Mar 13 16:43:56 DocScrutinizer: nah, no need to apologize. just throw a few pointers, happy to hear suggestions :) Mar 13 16:44:32 DrGrov: you can actually go through the whole list of apps in like 10 minutes. Mar 13 16:44:48 get load applet, to have an idea if there'S some hog process draining your bat Mar 13 16:44:54 DrGrov: for a package that looks interesting, you can tap "details" and read the description Mar 13 16:45:23 DrGrov: personal data monitor is also nice (a desktop widget that shows how much traffic you had over gprs) Mar 13 16:45:25 Shapeshifter: i did that actually. i'm not new to a linux environment so i did some details checking. Mar 13 16:45:45 Shapeshifter: i got myself a unlimited flat rate on data :) Mar 13 16:45:47 q: Any idea where exactly hildon-desktop stores icons? Somehow it seems that they are not stored only in gconf's /apps/osso/hildon-desktop/applets Mar 13 16:45:50 DrGrov: ^^ Mar 13 16:46:21 Shapeshifter: it costs 9,80 EUR for 384 kbit/s here in Finland through DNA. Mar 13 16:46:36 friggin shit, my load applet vanished Mar 13 16:46:49 DrGrov: lucky guy Mar 13 16:46:51 i got that operator logo "remover" / "changer" app which is actually not really that funny even to use :( Mar 13 16:47:18 Shapeshifter: never guess how many minutes and sms/mms i got per month? Mar 13 16:47:25 Shapeshifter: * i get Mar 13 16:47:58 0 Mar 13 16:48:41 Shapeshifter: I pay 39,80 EUR per month for 3000 regular phone minutes, 3000 video call minutes, 3000 messages and 3000 multimedia messages Mar 13 16:48:57 video call? people use that? Mar 13 16:49:30 DrGrov: is this called "Package 3000" or something ? Mar 13 16:49:33 I pay maybe around 20 euros for 1gb traffic, 30 minutes on-net and fixed line and 30sms. Mar 13 16:49:53 Shapeshifter: yeah, i use that actually quite often when talking with friends who live a bit longer but still within Finland. Mar 13 16:50:09 V13: i can link to the English version of my operator to where you can read about it if you want? Mar 13 16:50:21 just joking. It's fun to have 3000x4 Mar 13 16:50:24 i want to laujnch the pdf viewer so it loads a particular file - apparently I have to use dbus to do this - how do i find out what dbus options you can send to osso_pdf_viewer? Mar 13 16:51:14 V13: http://www.dna.fi/en/privatecustomers/mobilecommunication/priceplans/Sivut/Default.aspx Mar 13 16:51:26 btw I just noticed that it's not possible to select text in the email app. wonder how that ever got through to be released >.> Mar 13 16:51:36 V13: and unlimited data plan then of course. Mar 13 16:51:59 V13: but what is cool is when i pay for 384 kbit/s 9,80 EUR i always get at least around 55-70 kB / s Mar 13 16:52:32 my coverage is so bad I can't listen to internet radio while on the train without interruptions every minute Mar 13 16:52:35 Shapeshifter: one thing i'm really impressed about is the video quality. it is so weet Mar 13 16:52:35 Shapeshifter: is there a key combination to delete lines? Mar 13 16:52:39 Shapeshifter: *sweet Mar 13 16:52:55 maher: sorry what? Mar 13 16:53:07 Shapeshifter: is there a key combination to delete lines in the email client compose bit/ Mar 13 16:53:20 Shapeshifter: oooh :( i tested the internet radio last night with my 24/1 Mbit wireless. but it works still with that 3G 384 kbit/s Mar 13 16:53:44 hi... are there any instructions on how to get quassel irc client on an n900? Mar 13 16:53:44 no idea but I highly doubt it. I was just pointing out that it was impossible to select text when reading an email which I find is an extremely obvious feature, which is lacking. Mar 13 16:54:14 maher: ^ Mar 13 16:54:17 Shapeshifter: i suspect the people who wrote the email app never use it Mar 13 16:55:02 You can always start forwarding a mail and copy-paste what you want Mar 13 16:55:31 V13: sure Mar 13 16:55:44 But even there you have to use the keyboard Mar 13 16:56:09 maher: shift-cursormove to highlight, then backspace to delete Mar 13 16:56:17 oh is there even cross-application copy&paste support on the n900? Mar 13 16:56:22 what do you guys think? will there be any chance of Enlightenment 16 or 17 for the N900 along the way? Mar 13 16:56:22 DocScrutinizer: where is this stuff documented? Mar 13 16:56:24 yes, summel Mar 13 16:56:30 \o/ Mar 13 16:56:30 it's regular clipboard Mar 13 16:56:40 afaik Mar 13 16:56:45 <3.. so the n900 can anything the iphone can't :D Mar 13 16:56:46 oh.. new mapper available in extras-testing... goody :-) Mar 13 16:56:46 in wordstar manual of 1984? Mar 13 16:56:50 atleast pasting text back and forth works Mar 13 16:56:55 havent tested with images etc. Mar 13 16:57:05 summel: ctrl-c and ctrl-v. Or some things have explicit copy and paste buttons Mar 13 16:57:07 the only thing missing now is quassel client and a few good games :) Mar 13 16:57:20 and claws-mail Mar 13 16:57:46 can i go with the thought of that every commando and shortcut commando is the same as on a regular linux os? Mar 13 16:58:14 DrGrov: pretty much. note however that the shell is busybox ash, not bash. Mar 13 16:58:15 if you change "every" to "many" then yes Mar 13 16:58:18 mostly yes Mar 13 16:58:57 mostly it's linux with X server, gtk and a bit of qt Mar 13 16:59:20 Shapeshifter: ah yes, that is true. i was a bit loooost last night :) i was playing around 8-9 non stop with the phone so no wonder my brain wasn't at the sharpest Mar 13 16:59:33 V13: ok, every = many lol :) Mar 13 16:59:35 DrGrov: most important bit to note is you should install rootsh, and use 'root' rather than 'sudo" or 'su -' Mar 13 16:59:37 DocScrutinizer: i'm serious - where is the documentation that says what key bindings modest has? I'm happy to read the wordstar manual if necessary Mar 13 16:59:54 DocScrutinizer: yes, i know that it is not too good to just use sudo or su Mar 13 17:00:05 damn... Mar 13 17:00:07 DocScrutinizer: but isn't su the same basically. just a temporary login as root? Mar 13 17:00:24 i didn't know about "root" :-) I even made a "su" script to run sudo /bin/sh :-) Mar 13 17:00:33 DocScrutinizer: i am just so used to use "su" on my linux distro :) Mar 13 17:00:39 "sudo gainroot" i mean Mar 13 17:00:39 DrGrov: on maemo that's called 'root' Mar 13 17:00:42 does the n900 work with isync out of the box? Mar 13 17:01:18 DocScrutinizer: ah ok, so the same thing. just a tiny bit different command :) Mar 13 17:01:30 exactly Mar 13 17:01:37 DocScrutinizer: good, now i am getting a bit more clever with the platform how it works. not sure though lol :) Mar 13 17:01:43 and you need to install package rootsh Mar 13 17:02:02 summel: How exactly do you define "good games" ? Mar 13 17:02:09 DocScrutinizer: any risks of braking a working N900 system when i use the fetch function of the program control manager? Mar 13 17:02:28 V13: i dont know... something that uses the touchscreen and/or accelerometerthingy Mar 13 17:02:38 apt-get upgrade is strongly deprecated Mar 13 17:02:44 supertux would be nice but i cant get the controls to work Mar 13 17:02:46 summel: there are such games... but do you classify them as "good" ? Mar 13 17:02:47 DocScrutinizer: probably it is time to do a backup now of everything when it is really working well and i got all contacts, programs, settings fixed? Mar 13 17:02:49 otherwise do what you see might fit Mar 13 17:02:54 or the other racing game from the reposirtory Mar 13 17:03:07 didn't try any games from the ovi store so far... Mar 13 17:03:11 DocScrutinizer: deprecated = not suggested? right? Mar 13 17:03:24 yep Mar 13 17:03:35 DocScrutinizer: what are you meant to do instead? Mar 13 17:03:43 DocScrutinizer: oh, my english isn't totally bad then :) Mar 13 17:03:52 use hildon desktop app manager Mar 13 17:04:07 "update" button in it Mar 13 17:04:18 bbl Mar 13 17:04:20 DocScrutinizer: hildon desktop app manager? :) Mar 13 17:04:21 * DocScrutinizer waves Mar 13 17:04:22 i like the bullshit bingo though :D Mar 13 17:04:28 * DrGrov waves back to DocScrutinizer Mar 13 17:04:47 summel: lol on the bullshit bingo, i tried it last night when i got "bored" with installing lol Mar 13 17:04:53 :D Mar 13 17:05:10 summel: kind of addicting, yet idiotic game but sexy nevertheless :) Mar 13 17:05:29 i'd love to see a really good game :/ Mar 13 17:06:04 SNES emulator gives you lots of good games Mar 13 17:06:08 at playable fps Mar 13 17:06:19 but the controls... :( Mar 13 17:06:40 summel: not that bad I'd say. depending on the game I use the rightmost 9 keys as a dpad ;) Mar 13 17:06:49 if i now do a backup of my system and need to restore it later it is possible without any difficult steps to restore backups?' Mar 13 17:06:51 3x3 keys Mar 13 17:07:05 i couldn't even get supertux to work... Mar 13 17:07:27 and since you can't really use the direction keys because up and down needs a modifier key :/ Mar 13 17:07:31 but yeah, the n900 isn't very entertaining. that's why I have a PSP. Mar 13 17:08:02 i love the n900 :) only 2 things that i need to figure out before i get my own ^^ Mar 13 17:08:15 You can play Doom on it. Mar 13 17:08:20 DrGrov: yes, for all you installed or changed via desktop & apps there - not for apt-get installed things or edited files in /etc etc Mar 13 17:08:26 how are the controls? :P Mar 13 17:08:34 i'd prefer openarena though Mar 13 17:08:41 because it is really and completely free Mar 13 17:09:30 it is openarena isn't it. Mar 13 17:09:57 noo openarena is quake Mar 13 17:10:00 but opensource Mar 13 17:10:09 what about nexuiz ? Mar 13 17:10:21 not as good as quake imho ^^ Mar 13 17:10:34 nexuiz + minsta == great gameplay Mar 13 17:10:36 i'd love a good unreal tournament 3 for the n900 xD Mar 13 17:10:40 V13: ha Mar 13 17:10:56 V13: i doubt it can run fluently Mar 13 17:11:25 also, I don't really see the point of all such games on a mobile device. They suck the battery dry in no time. And if there's a power source, then I have a laptop, or a desktop for playing serious games Mar 13 17:11:44 i loved bioshock for symbian Mar 13 17:11:57 mainly because it was free :P but i was fun to play also Mar 13 17:12:09 mikkov: ping Mar 13 17:12:16 am i just completely stupid - where is the documentation for things? such as the osso pdf viewer? Mar 13 17:12:18 Shapeshifter: Well... dunno. nexuiz with so small resolution and with disabled effects is very lightweight. Mar 13 17:12:56 V13: possible. and it _is_ great gameplay ;) Mar 13 17:13:35 is there an rdp client atm? Mar 13 17:14:03 or does the vnc client also support rdp? Mar 13 17:17:12 summel: rdp client = rdesktop Mar 13 17:18:03 * RST38h moos at javispedro absentmindedly Mar 13 17:18:30 javispedro: so i connect to my terminal server from the console? Mar 13 17:18:43 * javispedro waves while yawning :P Mar 13 17:19:12 summel: yes, but iirc there was some python frontend Mar 13 17:19:19 hmm Mar 13 17:20:09 once a python app is mature, rewrite in a real language kthx Mar 13 17:20:14 Ladies and gentleman, I proudly present... the packages interface! Mar 13 17:20:18 http://maemo.org/packages/ Mar 13 17:20:23 can i apt-get install rdesktop? Mar 13 17:20:36 type your query and let a machine answer it for you! Mar 13 17:20:36 pupnik: >:( Mar 13 17:20:44 javispedro: Reloaded? Now More Evil Than Ever? Mar 13 17:21:16 RST38h: no, just reminding package-seekers of its oft-forgotten existence. Mar 13 17:21:26 this reminds me of packrat Mar 13 17:21:39 javis: Why not use PackRat instead? Mar 13 17:21:42 At least it WORKS Mar 13 17:21:47 yes, good point Mar 13 17:22:06 And we can extended it just a little bit to present all packages in a given category Mar 13 17:22:17 Ladies and gentleman, I proudly present... Pack Rat, the Maemo Package Aggregator! Mar 13 17:22:20 http://ageofikon.info/packrat/ Mar 13 17:22:32 because i cant find rdesktop in the program manager thingy Mar 13 17:22:40 I want to have an icon on the desktop that opens a particular pdf file when i click on it. Any suggestions? Mar 13 17:22:43 javispedro: elaborate... and quick :-) Mar 13 17:23:40 javispedro: what's new in the package interface ? Mar 13 17:23:49 (or it is a search page?) Mar 13 17:24:10 hmm ok apt-get install rdesktop can't find a package rdesktop :/ Mar 13 17:24:11 V13: nothing new :P just a reminder Mar 13 17:24:26 summel: because it's on extras-devel Mar 13 17:24:48 hmm do i want extras-devel? :D Mar 13 17:25:25 ask your network administrator. Mar 13 17:25:33 ok.. and while you're there, don't forget to vote for programs that work (even if you don't like them)... for example, "maegirls" :-) Mar 13 17:25:50 summel: no you don't Mar 13 17:25:53 mae west? Mar 13 17:26:24 summel: unless you understand the implications. Keeping a package in -devel most of the time happens for a very good reason Mar 13 17:26:34 yeah i guess Mar 13 17:26:40 so i wait until it hits exta? Mar 13 17:27:04 yes and/or contribute yourself to the package. Mar 13 17:27:14 im not a developer :/ Mar 13 17:27:17 python is very easy to learn Mar 13 17:27:24 you can become a developer... Mar 13 17:27:35 i know a tiny bit of python :D Mar 13 17:28:12 good.. you can write programs directly on n900 or using the SDK. I prefer n900 except for things that may cause problems, in which case I use the SDK. Mar 13 17:28:28 the sdk is a virtualbox image right? Mar 13 17:28:37 Just download the vmware image and use it either with vmware or KVM Mar 13 17:28:43 ah neat Mar 13 17:28:52 er... dunno.. i use vmware's image with KVM and it is pretty fast. Mar 13 17:28:55 will do that later when im back at my main desktop machine :) Mar 13 17:29:18 because vmware/virtualbox etc suck on a netbook Mar 13 17:29:26 KVM doesn't Mar 13 17:29:34 and besides... i dont know if virtualisation crashes the mac os on my netbook xD Mar 13 17:30:10 * thopiekar feels sometimes like living on another planet Mar 13 17:30:23 why are we using opensource? Mar 13 17:30:30 * V13 sends Apollo 97 Mar 13 17:30:52 thopiekar: why not ? Mar 13 17:31:03 Is it good to keep the WiFi thingie that disables WiFi so it doesn't search for it at all ? Mar 13 17:31:16 because we want to share great code and make it better.. Mar 13 17:31:20 DrGrov: afaik its good for the battery Mar 13 17:31:41 so why are people like k-s[AWAY] making new applications? Mar 13 17:31:42 http://blog.gustavobarbieri.com.br/2010/03/12/enlightenment-meets-bluez/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+GustavoSverzutBarbieri+(Gustavo+Sverzut+Barbieri)&utm_content=Google+International Mar 13 17:31:54 there is already blueman Mar 13 17:32:06 and kbluetooth :) Mar 13 17:32:08 <3 Mar 13 17:32:09 that supports pulseaudio and lot of other services.. Mar 13 17:32:16 kbluetooth sucks.. Mar 13 17:32:21 :o why? Mar 13 17:32:31 blueman is good Mar 13 17:32:34 these guys also should work with the blueman people.. Mar 13 17:32:38 kbluetooth doesn't work :) Mar 13 17:32:44 it works for me :) Mar 13 17:32:46 not just good it's very good Mar 13 17:32:55 yes.. it works... Mar 13 17:32:56 there is no perfekct kde4 distro :( Mar 13 17:32:56 * thopiekar ois using just blueman on kde4 Mar 13 17:33:01 arch is the best ive treid so far Mar 13 17:33:11 thopiekar: me too Mar 13 17:33:31 summel: ok, so no risks of keeping it running. it automatically is not forced to disable wlan on a startup but it is easy to enable. Mar 13 17:33:32 but kbluetooth no even supports apple wireless keyboards \o/ Mar 13 17:33:40 awww. man. this device is so damn fine and at the same time so annoying at times... Mar 13 17:33:42 thopiekar, because that's a EFL app, do you want to ship a E desktop with all GTk or KDE libs ? ;) Mar 13 17:33:50 OOOOH! Mar 13 17:33:58 E desktop = Enlightenment 17? Mar 13 17:33:59 I really get crazy seeing people making new apps.. Mar 13 17:34:04 * DrGrov smiles like a dumb idiot :) Mar 13 17:34:22 DrGrov: no risks afaik.... though... a german court ruled that even joining a unprotected wireless network is illegal.... :O Mar 13 17:34:32 DrGrov, yes Mar 13 17:34:51 VDVsx: what about making a "GUIfactory" and let the app (here blueman) detect the WM and choose the right toolkit? Mar 13 17:35:08 summel: i just keep my own 24 Mbit WiFi connection on a priority. then my normal flat data rate when i travel. Mar 13 17:35:15 why not everybody just use qt4? :P Mar 13 17:35:24 anyone know a good archiver tool for maemo 5? Mar 13 17:35:26 you really don't need to recode everything :/ Mar 13 17:35:29 summel: one day they will :) Mar 13 17:35:35 i sure hope so :) Mar 13 17:35:45 summel: yeah, that is the same thing as in finland atm. but in finland it will become the users own responsibility to protect their wifi Mar 13 17:36:03 thopiekar, last time I check blueman is a python app and is a bit messy IMO :D Mar 13 17:36:15 VDVsx: yes? sorry, a bit lost when i helped my fiancee to get more, mooooooore music for the N97 which she inherited from me. her little child :) LOL Mar 13 17:36:34 how about some good IM apps? Pidgin is working out almost flawless Mar 13 17:36:39 E desktop = Enlightenment 17? Mar 13 17:36:42 yes Mar 13 17:36:43 VDVsx: check it out again.. I'm using Ubuntu Lucid (alpha) and blueman works great! Mar 13 17:36:43 well.. here you cannot convict anyone for doing something harmless unintentionally. (e.g. auto-joining an unprotected wireless network), unless there is loss or something. Mar 13 17:36:43 :D Mar 13 17:36:48 does someone know how I can enlarge the ash history? it only stores like 20 or so commands which is extremely little Mar 13 17:37:10 thopiekar, is it the default in ubuntu now? Mar 13 17:37:15 oh yes... is there a jabber client for the n900? preferably not pidgin :D Mar 13 17:37:20 VDVsx: aaaah! i'm actually close to get a serious brain disruption of exctasy when I hear about E17 :) Mar 13 17:37:39 lol Mar 13 17:37:39 no but its even better as the default on (gnome-bluetooth).. Mar 13 17:37:42 How is it with all the call logs? can I somehow delete them? how about a list of how many sent messages ? Mar 13 17:37:44 summel: the built-in is not good enough ? Mar 13 17:37:45 also, does someone know how to save the ash history after every command entered? like bashs PROMPT_COMMAND="history -a" Mar 13 17:37:52 there is one built in? :O Mar 13 17:37:59 I mean, can I delete the call logs with the regular built in call log thingie? Mar 13 17:38:02 <3 Mar 13 17:38:03 summel: yes. and it works well. Mar 13 17:38:08 niceee Mar 13 17:38:18 i relly do have to get my own n900 >_> Mar 13 17:38:19 summel: and the extra protocols plugin works well, so all the crap goes as well, msn, icq.. that stuff Mar 13 17:38:23 summel: wtf? not pidgin? LOL Mar 13 17:38:25 thopiekar, probably for a user POV, I don't like the things that blueman does to the system, probably is better now, dunno :) Mar 13 17:38:31 i only need jabber :) Mar 13 17:38:32 s/for/from Mar 13 17:38:36 you can connect different services easier and manage your audio devices.. Mar 13 17:38:37 DrGrov: i hate pidgin :( Mar 13 17:38:46 DrGrov: I tried pidgin and I find that the builtin thing is much nicer than pidgin on the n900. Mar 13 17:38:59 its near perfect actually Mar 13 17:39:08 (unlike many other things on the n900) Mar 13 17:39:12 * thopiekar is listening all the time music via a2dp and pulseaudio Mar 13 17:39:15 on my desktops i use kopete or adium Mar 13 17:39:24 :) Mar 13 17:39:38 Shapeshifter: what? a built in MSN client? Cooool :) Mar 13 17:39:52 summel: you dirty man, dirty dirty I say. Nah, just kidding :) Mar 13 17:39:59 :O Mar 13 17:40:07 i dont like most gtk apps :P Mar 13 17:40:22 DrGrov: if you install the extra protocols plugin, pretty much any protocol known to man goes Mar 13 17:40:30 gimp is... ok-ish... because krita is nowhere near gimp in tearms of features... yet... Mar 13 17:40:31 even facebook (the old and crap facebook chat) Mar 13 17:40:35 summel: i had that same situation back a few years ago. then i decided to get to gtk apps instead Mar 13 17:40:49 moo... Mar 13 17:40:55 Shapeshifter: yes sir, i got that extra protocols package for pidgin. the first almost thing i did :) Mar 13 17:40:59 qt is so much nicer :) and waaay more beautiful ^^ Mar 13 17:41:07 summel: yeah, qt is more beautiful :) Mar 13 17:41:34 the internet radio is absolutely fantastic :) Mar 13 17:41:46 btw, anyone got some server space to "borrow" for a few hours or so? :) Mar 13 17:41:56 how much? Mar 13 17:42:17 talking about 600 mb to 1,5 GB roughly Mar 13 17:42:42 yes Mar 13 17:42:46 my computer is bailing out on the fun it seems :( the hard drive is crappy Mar 13 17:42:47 if you can life with scp? Mar 13 17:42:48 :D Mar 13 17:42:55 summel: nooOooooO! Mar 13 17:43:00 scp/sftp Mar 13 17:43:01 summel: i can live with ssh :) Mar 13 17:43:04 ok Mar 13 17:43:12 let me crate you an account then ^^ Mar 13 17:43:18 * Arif_ has a server but doesn't know how to give an FTP account :p Mar 13 17:43:55 give ssh access Mar 13 17:44:01 root and pw please :D Mar 13 17:44:02 summel: can i download it then from a http website? Mar 13 17:44:11 i can make it that you can yes Mar 13 17:44:24 summel: that would be awesome Mar 13 17:44:36 summel: i am desperate to get it from a http based website :D lol Mar 13 17:56:47 interesting, supertuxkart seems to start ih debian lxde Mar 13 17:57:20 it isn't playable (über laggy), but interesting that it starts at all Mar 13 17:58:32 anyone strongly recommend either the n900 vs 810, considering price? Mar 13 17:59:02 Depends on what you need. Mar 13 17:59:06 well.. do you want a phone or a tablet? :D Mar 13 17:59:30 tablet, lol. Mar 13 18:01:21 I love my n900. Mar 13 18:01:49 n900 is better in almost every way. Mar 13 18:01:52 It's thicker, though =) Mar 13 18:02:10 Anthro16: most probably you want' a table with phone capabilities but you don't know it Mar 13 18:02:47 but I'd wait 6-9 months for the next one. Or get n810 for now. Mar 13 18:04:04 next one? Mar 13 18:04:09 Ah, whats the next one called? Mar 13 18:05:39 V13: I doubt there will be a next device anywhere before q2 2011 Mar 13 18:06:15 i guess there will be an announcement at Sep 2010 Mar 13 18:06:23 although all this is speculation ;) Mar 13 18:06:27 mine too :) Mar 13 18:06:33 V13: well that's an accurate guess :P Mar 13 18:07:03 but i don't believe nokia has the choice of not having a good high-end phone for so much time Mar 13 18:07:28 V13: the n97 is their high-end phone Mar 13 18:07:34 and maybe there will be a followup Mar 13 18:07:40 n900 is a tablet Mar 13 18:07:44 IMO, all android phones are superior to all nokia's phones (except n900 :-) Mar 13 18:08:10 and they have many apps. Mar 13 18:08:22 V13: but need a gmail account :( Mar 13 18:08:23 im concerned about plan costs though, can i use the n900 with only wifi? Mar 13 18:08:35 Anthro16: yes you can. i did it last night without any problems. Mar 13 18:08:36 sho nuf Mar 13 18:09:00 Anthro16: gps lock will be slow/dicey probably Mar 13 18:09:02 Anthro16: i have a flat data plan but i keep my 24 Mbit WiFi then at home but it doesn't go and wonder on a 3G data plan Mar 13 18:09:04 DrGrow: well.. it helps.. If you're tied with google it helps. Mar 13 18:10:03 id spend a lot for a N820 with stonkin battery, big oled screen and n810 speakers Mar 13 18:10:28 V13: yeah, that helps. true as you say. i just am not too big of a fan of google to get into their google android thingies Mar 13 18:10:32 anyone familiar with Ultimate Ears headphones and know if those with call handling will work on the N900? Mar 13 18:10:33 hmmm, pupnik, gps isnt much of a concern for me. Mar 13 18:10:44 pupnik: cellular-data are most probably the best thing that happened after 802.11... Mar 13 18:11:07 drgov: me neither. but it is still better than n97... Mar 13 18:11:35 V13: don't say that so my fiancee hears, she got my N97 last night when I got the N900 :) Mar 13 18:11:46 V13: but I will fix it for her through service so it will eventually get good Mar 13 18:11:52 :) Mar 13 18:12:25 pupnik: I find the social part of n900 *VERY* strong. Being always online to chat accounts is great. I've stopped using sms. Mar 13 18:12:28 Milhouse: I would suggest some really good bluetooth handsfree, Nokia made. you need music as well or just talking? Mar 13 18:12:42 agree with V13 Mar 13 18:12:50 V13: i have the problem still that i need the sms for many reasons. Mar 13 18:13:00 mainly music, but would like call handling as well. my Shure E2Cs just died on me so looking for an upgrade... was thinking of these... http://www.ultimateears.com/_ultimateears/store/products/triplefi10vi.php Mar 13 18:13:09 i prefer symbian over android Mar 13 18:13:20 problem is, data plans, atleast with verizon are 30$/mo Mar 13 18:13:26 the cable snapped on my Shures, the UE's have replaceable cables which is a major plus now! Mar 13 18:14:07 DrGov: I like the idea of Bluetooth, unfortunately it's just one more thing I have to remember to keep charged so ends up being more of a pain in the arse until everything can be charged inductively... :) Mar 13 18:14:19 dunno if UE is upgrade after e2c :) Mar 13 18:14:43 Shadow: The TriplFi gets good reviews... hopefully it will be. Mar 13 18:14:56 oh wait, I was thinking of e3c Mar 13 18:14:58 Milhouse: Not necessarily actually. Mar 13 18:15:11 DrGov: I'm all ears (as it were) :) Mar 13 18:15:31 s/Gov/Grov/g Mar 13 18:15:32 Milhouse meant: DrGrov: I'm all ears (as it were) :) Mar 13 18:15:40 Milhouse: I think I call much when I have 50 hours regular calls and 50 hours video calls per month to use Mar 13 18:15:58 Milhouse: no worry. DrGov is kind of sexy. I'll stick with that ;) Mar 13 18:16:11 there are no good data plans in germany :( Mar 13 18:16:43 even the most expensive ones get slowed down from 3g to egde after at least 5GB/month :( Mar 13 18:16:55 and those start at 30-40€/Month! Mar 13 18:17:09 DrGrov: how long does the battery in your Bluetooth last between charges? My last BT headset, SonyEricsson DBH-900 something, lasted about 10 hours use time. Mar 13 18:17:19 youre lucky you even have 3g Mar 13 18:17:23 so atm i pay 2.50€ per day i use 3g... if i dont use it i dont pay anything :) Mar 13 18:19:01 * SpeedEvil hugs t-mobile (UK) Mar 13 18:19:16 20 quid (30euro) for 6 months net. (1G/mo fair use) Mar 13 18:19:45 1G/month is not much :/ Mar 13 18:20:26 Well - yes and no. Mar 13 18:20:37 It's in wifi range 90% of the time. Mar 13 18:20:59 And the rest - I have up to 30G of stuff to do. Mar 13 18:21:12 yrs... i probably also dont need 5G/month.... or 1... but its nice to have... Mar 13 18:21:39 and imho the companys shouldnt be allowed to call it a flatrate if you get slowed down after an ammount of traffic Mar 13 18:24:55 Milhouse: but yeah, i just a shitload of bluetooth usually when driving and trust me. i drive a lot. so i am thinking about getting the Nokia BH-904 Mar 13 18:25:36 DrGrov: what kind of car are you driving in? Mar 13 18:26:34 Shapeshifter: why do you ask? :) Mar 13 18:27:10 gawd, it seems that you cant get the n900 in stores, lol. Mar 13 18:27:44 oh gunzip in /bin Mar 13 18:27:53 now only a gui is needed ;D Mar 13 18:27:56 DrGrov: I hope its a citroen Mar 13 18:27:59 ;) Mar 13 18:29:06 Shapeshifter: god nooooooo! Mar 13 18:29:11 Anthro16: yes, thats a problem... try amazon :) Mar 13 18:29:12 Shapeshifter: i drive a Toyota Starlet Mar 13 18:29:21 DrGrov: ah well, not bad either. "it works" Mar 13 18:29:28 Shapeshifter: but then occassionally my fiancees Audi A3 1,6 from 1997 Mar 13 18:29:29 but I'd only drive around a lot in a citroen Mar 13 18:29:45 Shapeshifter: it sure works. the fuel consumption per 100km is around 5-5,2 L Mar 13 18:31:31 Shapeshifter: so when driving around 2000km / month i think it's reasonable Mar 13 18:31:48 i get paid 0,45 euro / km Mar 13 18:32:00 DrGrov: oh good Mar 13 18:32:22 Shapeshifter: plus salary for driving ;) Mar 13 18:32:42 do videos for the n900 have to be in a special format/resolution? Mar 13 18:33:09 Shapeshifter: should I take a backup *now* of the N900 when I got the contacts, apps, settings and so spot on perfect? Mar 13 18:34:33 DrGrov: yeah why not. the restore thingy works surprisingly well. btw, note that when the next update comes out, and you don't have enough space on rootfs, it will just tell you that "you have to connect your n900 to your pc and stuff", although that is not true. You just need to make enough room on rootfs to install it on-the-fly. Well, it that update supports that kind of update Mar 13 18:35:01 in any case, it just tells you to reflash it entirely if there's not enough space on rootfs, instead of just saying "please free x mb on rootfs". Mar 13 18:38:07 Shapeshifter: so it would mean if i now take a backup when i have every contact, app, setting under perfect control it is perfect time to restore it then later when i have got a new firmware update? Mar 13 18:39:06 does the N900 play regular 350 times something pixels 350mb tv shows like House? Mar 13 18:39:18 when they are in .avi format? Mar 13 18:39:49 DrGrov: well if you have to reflash upon an update, it even tells you to backup first. Mar 13 18:40:53 DrGrov: it should Mar 13 18:41:34 * Shapeshifter just released a new version of "Alarmed". It now supports automatic tweakr profile switching if tweakr is installed :) Mar 13 18:42:01 Shapeshifter: yes that is true. it tells me to back up Mar 13 18:42:31 what is alarmed? :D Mar 13 18:42:32 Shapeshifter: just thought to back up now since it can be a PITA to remember all settings, contacts, apps later that has there been changes which are *important* Mar 13 18:43:04 summel: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=46594 Mar 13 18:43:52 ah so basicly an advanced alarm clock? Mar 13 18:44:05 that can instead of alarm change the profile? Mar 13 18:44:05 :D Mar 13 18:44:25 nice Mar 13 18:44:29 summel: it can also switch to/from flightmode and reset the gprs data counter. and execute custom commands Mar 13 18:44:49 sounds good, what are we talking about? Mar 13 18:44:51 so all the cool stuff is in extra-devel? :D Mar 13 18:44:57 mece: link aboce Mar 13 18:44:58 above Mar 13 18:44:59 summel, well, d'uh Mar 13 18:45:00 summel: much of it, yes. Mar 13 18:45:04 xD Mar 13 18:45:13 summel: yes. all the cool stuff, and all the stuff that will brick your device :D Mar 13 18:45:17 Shapeshifter: The House episode I will try to test is 624x352 pixels and roughly 348-352 MB. Should work, right? Mar 13 18:45:21 link above? Mar 13 18:45:27 DrGrov: try and see ;) Mar 13 18:45:32 mece: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=46594 Mar 13 18:45:34 mece: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=46594 Mar 13 18:45:34 Shapeshifter: yes, gotta try :) lol Mar 13 18:45:36 thanks Mar 13 18:45:37 :D Mar 13 18:47:01 Shapeshifter, looks really good this. Mar 13 18:47:31 * Arif_ blinks Mar 13 18:48:24 mece: startup is a bit slow because of pyside, and my code is a bit hackish because it kinda grew from a small script ;) Once pyside Shiboken is out I can improve the list view and it will be a lot faster Mar 13 18:48:46 but it seems to work allright ;) Mar 13 18:49:11 Shapeshifter, I know exactly what you mean. I always start small and then end up with something very large that needs restructuring that I don't feel like doing ;) Mar 13 18:49:47 mece: I'll be adding CLI support and when that happens I'll rearrange stuff. Will be nicer after that ;) Mar 13 18:50:25 hm Mar 13 18:50:37 does the one that wrote KMplayer ever come here? Mar 13 18:59:25 apparently my carrier doesn't support EDGE + GSM voice call at the same time either Mar 13 18:59:54 could be nice with an app that would switch the EDGE data connection to UMTS when someone calls you, so the TCP connections don't drop Mar 13 19:09:49 why don't you stay on 3G? Mar 13 19:10:58 offtopic: "iPhone Top Features: Cut, Copy & Paste , ..." https://www.rogers.com/web/link/newPhoneBuyFlow Mar 13 19:11:01 lmao Mar 13 19:11:32 top features? Mar 13 19:11:35 welcome to 2004! Mar 13 19:11:40 1984 Mar 13 19:11:57 Two buttons bad one button good. Mar 13 19:12:00 my 6600 can copy paste too Mar 13 19:12:26 well, I'm off for beers Mar 13 19:17:31 hey guys, what is the best way to get a contact informations by having only the phone number ? Mar 13 19:19:06 <`0660> b0unc3, call to the number and ask? :) Mar 13 19:20:51 `0660, :( Mar 13 19:22:18 google the number and hope its on facebook Mar 13 19:22:19 :P Mar 13 19:30:16 anyone know which bt audio codecs maemo5 supports? Mar 13 19:30:57 i picked up a free bt earpiece, and it was easy enough to configure Mar 13 19:31:28 but what i'd like is something that does both phonecalls and music (a2dp i think it is) Mar 13 19:47:21 pwnguin, A2DP is definitely supported in Maemo5: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=667 . However that does not mean that it's bug-free ;-) Mar 13 19:49:44 * Arif_ wonders if the remote that came with the N95 8GB will be supported Mar 13 19:58:14 is there a qr code reader in one of the default repositoris or in the ovi store? Mar 13 19:59:13 mbarcode will do QRCodes Mar 13 20:01:29 iss mbarcode in extra or in ovi store? Mar 13 20:02:10 I think it's in testing or devel Mar 13 20:02:31 party at the leper coooooloony Mar 13 20:03:03 dum dum dum de dum Mar 13 20:03:19 weird al rocks :D Mar 13 20:04:06 and the regular earphones of the N900 are good enough Mar 13 20:04:25 why wopuld I want a BH-9 Mar 13 20:04:59 s/BH-9/BH-905/ Mar 13 20:05:00 ptl meant: why wopuld I want a BH-905 Mar 13 20:06:34 * ptl usong his N900 at the barbershop Mar 13 20:10:24 in practice, when the N900 changes from 3G to 3.5G, does it disconnect then reconnect to the network? Mar 13 20:13:47 i think no Mar 13 20:14:11 any idea why I can run executables in scratchbox? I get "No such file or directory" Mar 13 20:14:30 when executing simple compiled c things like helloworld Mar 13 20:15:20 <`0660> try ./helloworld Mar 13 20:15:42 thats what I did Mar 13 20:15:51 [sbox-FREMANTLE_X86: ~] > ./helloworld Mar 13 20:15:51 bash: ./helloworld: No such file or directory Mar 13 20:16:15 I added home to path also and that didn't help either Mar 13 20:18:09 try the complete path then Mar 13 20:18:30 /home/user/helloworld Mar 13 20:18:54 same thing Mar 13 20:18:59 the absolute path Mar 13 20:19:06 ./ and fullpath/ make no difference Mar 13 20:19:32 I know, satmd Mar 13 20:20:01 dotCOMmie: arew you sure this is not a script? Mar 13 20:20:35 [sbox-FREMANTLE_X86: ~] > file helloworld Mar 13 20:20:36 helloworld: ELF 32-bit LSB executable, Intel 80386, version 1 (SYSV), for GNU/Linux 2.0.0, dynamically linked (uses shared libs), not stripped Mar 13 20:20:47 as sure as I can be Mar 13 20:20:58 sounds like a library issue Mar 13 20:21:14 does the file exist on that path, is an ELF file compiled to the correct architecture and the file system is not 'noexec'? Mar 13 20:21:27 oh Mar 13 20:21:48 sorry, I wrote bwefore seeing your response Mar 13 20:22:25 dotgldd helloworld Mar 13 20:22:46 this is weird Mar 13 20:23:00 dotCOMmie: ldd helloworld Mar 13 20:23:14 executable format is probably wrong Mar 13 20:23:16 let me reboot this whole thing.. I quit scratchbox and ran /scratchbox/users/tox/home/tox/helloworld and got the same shit Mar 13 20:23:36 so it doesn't look like its exactly a scratchbox problem Mar 13 20:23:45 althought could be a weird compile Mar 13 20:24:05 myeah Mar 13 20:24:08 [sbox-FREMANTLE_X86: ~] > ldd helloworld libc.so.6 => not found (0x00000000) /lib/ld-linux.so.2 => /lib/ld-linux.so.2 (0x00000000) Mar 13 20:24:16 that does not look good d: Mar 13 20:24:28 hi Mar 13 20:24:29 libc6 not found? Mar 13 20:24:40 wow :) Mar 13 20:27:09 ~ping Mar 13 20:27:10 ~pong Mar 13 20:28:27 why does #maemo still needs registration? Mar 13 20:28:33 andre__: thanks for that tip Mar 13 20:29:10 frikinz: i'm assuming to prevent spam Mar 13 20:29:26 frikinz, because there's lots of spammers. Mar 13 20:29:39 b-man|laptop, there is no spam on any of my 10 other chan which do not require registration Mar 13 20:30:05 ubuntu, debian, ....... don't require registration Mar 13 20:30:36 i know several people who are not coming here anymore due to this Mar 13 20:36:07 frikinz: good for them, but there's been lots of spam here... Mar 13 20:36:46 frikinz: although not too long ago freenode was somewhat "under attack" by a bunch of hackers which deployed a bunch of spam bots throughout the servers; which prompted some admins to set +m on unregistered users on their channels Mar 13 20:37:59 +m = you can't talk on the channel btw Mar 13 20:38:45 so all chans should forbid unregistered users then? Mar 13 20:40:09 mmm.. I can see why people praise Vikuiti Mar 13 20:41:13 frikinz: i think it depends on traffic and opinions Mar 13 20:41:23 i praise people who have learned how to package for maemo-builder Mar 13 20:42:16 oo Mar 13 20:42:22 first an N64 emulator and now a PSX emu! Mar 13 20:42:55 the PSX emulator isn't as optimized though Mar 13 20:43:10 nor is the N64 one :P Mar 13 20:43:18 * Arif_ gives it a month or 5 Mar 13 20:44:15 * Arif_ needs a weemoat controller Mar 13 20:45:02 Yeah. When the weemoat gets too high, it begins to smell. Mar 13 20:45:13 Arif_: soo far, the N64 emulator has been able to achieve better performance though - even though it isn't very optimized ;) Mar 13 20:45:39 test 3 (do you hear me?) Mar 13 20:45:45 yup Mar 13 20:45:48 I read you .. Mar 13 20:45:51 at last... :-) Mar 13 20:45:58 I only saw the 10FPS Zelda video with no sound Mar 13 20:45:59 =} Mar 13 20:46:17 I'd love some mario kart at 50FPS with sound :P Mar 13 20:46:23 shvedsky: did you have the identify issue with #maemo too? xD Mar 13 20:46:39 mario ftw :) Mar 13 20:46:45 and smash bros Mar 13 20:46:48 b-man|laptop: I had an I-dont-know-how-to-use-irc issue, actually Mar 13 20:46:49 I loved that game...:D Mar 13 20:47:55 i am finally back... damn this! Mar 13 20:47:57 ok, so I have a question about GSoC 2010. How can I "second" other user's proposal? What should I do for that? Mar 13 20:48:05 those games were always soo addictive! xD Mar 13 20:48:24 yeah Mar 13 20:48:29 Should I do nothing, since the list of organizaitons is not yes established? Mar 13 20:48:30 I still have the carts :P Mar 13 20:48:32 snes is champ for me Mar 13 20:48:50 SNES's mario kart is kinda boring Mar 13 20:49:32 * b-man|laptop plays Super Mario World in Drnoksnes Mar 13 20:49:45 * Arif_ has mario all stars+world :P Mar 13 20:49:53 oh Mar 13 20:49:55 and contra Mar 13 20:49:58 <3 Mar 13 20:50:12 Arif_: you have a while collection going xD Mar 13 20:50:18 *whole Mar 13 20:50:27 hehe Mar 13 20:50:31 damn autocomplete xD Mar 13 20:50:34 I have too much time on my hands :P Mar 13 20:50:52 I wish the GBA emu would improve though Mar 13 20:50:57 I want to play GoldenSun again Mar 13 20:51:05 i want to play Golden Axe Mar 13 20:51:26 yeah, someone go port picodrive or something Mar 13 20:51:32 id say the rst emus are more impressive overall of course... but for a noob, javis did make a decent first port, he pushed the entire gaming tech for n900 Mar 13 20:52:34 so far I use the SNES emu the most Mar 13 20:52:37 =} Mar 13 20:55:40 any news on when perhaps Enlightenment 17 will be available for the N900? Mar 13 20:56:24 whats that Mar 13 20:56:54 a desktop environment Mar 13 20:56:57 Enlightenment 17 is one of the coolest things available for *nix distributions Mar 13 20:57:09 you could build it under scratchbox and deploy it like penguinbait's kde port xD Mar 13 20:57:14 no, actually it isn't perhaps a desktop environment Mar 13 20:57:36 more of a window manager or? curious to know actually how Enlightenment 16 & 17 is classified Mar 13 20:57:37 aw Mar 13 20:57:43 no game :P Mar 13 20:57:50 b-man|laptop: damn, that sounds like a beautiful idea :D Mar 13 20:59:21 hmm Mar 13 20:59:30 my ROMs folder is 3GB :shifty: Mar 13 20:59:34 n900-mwm - it has to be done. Mar 13 21:01:34 argh. no ddtae?! Mar 13 21:01:38 *ddate Mar 13 21:02:04 Arif_: lol Mar 13 21:02:49 >:) Mar 13 21:13:38 mh. where does coreutils-gnu get installed Mar 13 21:14:42 /opt/maemo/usr/bin/gnu i think Mar 13 21:16:20 but has a symbolic link in /usr/bin/ Mar 13 21:21:05 btw there are two versions of coreutils (from different repos?), which one is better? Mar 13 21:23:25 i think one is busybox, and the other is gnu Mar 13 21:23:46 the default should be busybox Mar 13 21:23:58 and it depends on your needs as to which is better Mar 13 21:24:07 if you need something lightweight Mar 13 21:24:18 and dont use the terminal much, busybox is fine Mar 13 21:24:38 Where does the media player store its playlists? I figure editing it by hand is going to be easier than trying to remove files through the GUI Mar 13 21:24:56 poor poor dragn Mar 13 21:25:50 Dragnslcr: which playlists? the artists / genre / album ones are generated Mar 13 21:26:29 Ones that I save Mar 13 21:27:13 I couldn't find it anywhere in the home directory Mar 13 22:06:13 so when i try to untar something on the n900, with "tar xvf file.tar.bz2" i get tar: invalid tar magic Mar 13 22:06:54 hm Mar 13 22:06:59 If it's bzipped, you have to add that option to tar Mar 13 22:07:06 i've never had to do that before Mar 13 22:07:13 I know gzip is -z Mar 13 22:07:21 seems like supertuxkart has open gl es, it's possible to run in easy debian Mar 13 22:07:23 zip is -j Mar 13 22:07:30 bzip that is Mar 13 22:07:37 it is way from fast - but it seems to run Mar 13 22:07:56 with tar on any desktop distro , its never matter if it was gz or bz2 , tar xvf has always worked Mar 13 22:08:03 so a port would be possible i guess Mar 13 22:08:16 Must be a magic version of tar you've been using Mar 13 22:08:31 I've always used -z, though I haven't tried without it Mar 13 22:09:01 wait does the tar on the n900 not even support bz2 O_o Mar 13 22:10:51 Hm, looks like it might not Mar 13 22:12:01 I'm not sure if bzip2 is installed by default, so that might be part of it Mar 13 22:15:06 is it possible to clone a git repo from within esbox? Mar 13 22:15:17 is there a way to calibrate the accelerometer? Mar 13 22:15:25 egit had unmet dependancies when I tried to install it. Mar 13 22:15:27 How is Skype integrated into the N900? Mar 13 22:15:44 via the messaging infrastructure. Mar 13 22:15:45 I make a connection to Skype through ... ? Mar 13 22:15:51 ah, the messaging. cool Mar 13 22:15:55 through the telephone app Mar 13 22:16:08 you choose 'skype' instead of 'network' Mar 13 22:16:22 ptl: can i delete one by one from the call log or do i need to delete all phone log details at once? Mar 13 22:17:57 DrGrov: I dunno, never tried to delete anything from the call log, maybe you can script that if you know maemo well enough Mar 13 22:23:33 ptl: ok, i think i can delete the call log as i can delete the SMS messages from Conversations. Mar 13 22:23:50 should be basically the same thing to get them deleted without too much problems i presume Mar 13 22:24:17 but i got the advanced call "something" to help a bit out on that part with the call log if there is the need for more control Mar 13 23:11:41 mhh. I still miss ddate Mar 13 23:11:59 its not in coreutils-gnu Mar 13 23:12:12 although its so important to humanity Mar 13 23:12:41 hm.. I wonder if it'd be safe to try dump bme's stack to a file with gdb... Mar 13 23:13:46 safe? Mar 13 23:14:52 reboot-safe Mar 13 23:15:02 there are realtime signals going on an a realtime message queue.. Mar 13 23:15:11 maybe I need to script gdb instead of interactive to be safe Mar 13 23:15:26 ah Mar 13 23:15:39 this is n900? Mar 13 23:15:45 * SpeedEvil forgets who has what. Mar 13 23:17:39 ya Mar 13 23:17:54 it's communicating with something over SMBUS Mar 13 23:17:58 /i2c Mar 13 23:18:19 I can see that with strace, it's doing ioctl on /dev/i2c-2 Mar 13 23:18:57 but the ioctl takes as argument pointer to a struct containing the actual commands and a pointer to data.. I want to dump the memory of bme at that memory address Mar 13 23:19:13 'seems confusing Mar 13 23:19:35 ShadowJK: Or teach strace about hte ioctl Mar 13 23:19:43 oh you can do that? Mar 13 23:19:59 I presume so. Mar 13 23:20:08 It doesn't magically know about some ioctls. Mar 13 23:20:20 Someone must have told it, or it have some means of parsing. Mar 13 23:20:39 Dunno how easy it is Mar 14 00:31:41 n900 not mounting in ubuntu 10.04. anyone else see this as well? Mar 14 00:34:11 "rescuing software update please dont turn off" Mar 14 00:36:14 rescuing?:P Mar 14 00:36:22 os2008 Mar 14 00:36:57 went flat, plugged it into charger and that came up ;) Mar 14 00:37:15 err, "rescuing software update please do not interrupt" Mar 14 00:40:17 maybe its a sign to get an N900 Mar 14 00:43:01 I found some annoyance in the N900 Phone settings..... Mar 14 00:43:11 the forwarding option resets to 20 seconds automagically Mar 14 00:58:46 Arif_, n900 not on sale here till next month Mar 14 00:58:52 rrp AUD$899 Mar 14 01:21:10 catorise has an update hurricane :) Mar 14 01:29:24 http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010/03/nokia-c6-tomsguide.jpg - shop :) **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Mar 14 02:59:56 2010