**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Tue Mar 16 02:59:56 2010 Mar 16 03:00:06 i suspect an opportunity for better heating room controls using arm devices in .de DocScrutinizer Mar 16 03:00:25 i only find one company innovating there Mar 16 03:01:08 pupnik_: see http://www.eq-3.de/index.php?id=240&no_cache=1&L=0 Mar 16 03:01:30 but the central furnaces also now do some live adjusting based on estimated temps Mar 16 03:01:34 hmm Mar 16 03:01:56 DocScrutinizer: (even if a burglar comes through the window ;-) Mar 16 03:02:36 ok two Mar 16 03:13:14 Arkenoi: (even if a burglar comes through the window ;-) http://www.eq-3.de/index.php?id=26&L=0 Mar 16 03:14:50 http://www.eq-3.de/index.php?id=236&no_cache=1 http://www.eq-3.de/index.php?id=236&art_id=12993&L=0&x=52&y=11 Mar 16 03:15:00 DocScrutinizer, what control channel does eq3 equipment use? Mar 16 03:15:28 866MHz AES encrypted bidir Mar 16 03:15:51 or RS485 Mar 16 03:17:12 well, it is much more expensive than generic 110V x10 i guess Mar 16 03:17:26 but it does not need control wires at least Mar 16 03:18:07 what about jamming resistance? how does it act if it accidentally loses signal from all sensors? Mar 16 03:19:53 looks nice DocScrutinizer - do you know people who sell / install in .de? Mar 16 03:20:47 Arkenoi: I guess that's configurable Mar 16 03:21:44 pupnik_: conrad.de sells (for instance). Installing probably done by your electrician, or DIY Mar 16 03:23:29 for the AES encryption, that's not entirely clear. Just found a flaming blog claiming it's not Mar 16 03:23:49 hmm conrad.de , iirc they are presented here in russia somehow. but last time i checked all that stuff was damn expensive. it was 5 years ago, though Mar 16 03:24:59 http://www.homematic.com/index.php?id=153#down12 Mar 16 03:27:04 evenin Mar 16 03:27:07 whats new Mar 16 03:27:19 pr1.2 i hope :) Mar 16 03:28:22 you tell us Mar 16 03:29:24 KamuiN900, probably soon-ish. Mar 16 03:29:49 KamuiN900: How's the wrapper going? Mar 16 03:29:49 sup ga sup doc Mar 16 03:29:57 not good Mar 16 03:30:26 well im now studying opengl to figure out whats missing Mar 16 03:30:39 i cant compile with pseudo code on the wrapper Mar 16 03:30:53 and most of the funt mapping used in blender is complete Mar 16 03:31:05 i have a ton of missing constants and vars Mar 16 03:31:29 the lib is actually way more complex to wrap than just using the sdk Mar 16 03:31:41 even more so than i anticipated Mar 16 03:32:05 but i saw another gles lib that has missing opengl stuff wrapped Mar 16 03:32:34 i asked in the forums for someone to try a build using it and aste the output Mar 16 03:33:05 i might be doing double work at this point but am too far along to just scrap the env to see Mar 16 03:33:29 also im a douche and was working with the gl headers directly Mar 16 03:33:44 so the build env isnt isolated Mar 16 03:33:53 at least not in the sandbox Mar 16 03:34:00 scratchbox even Mar 16 03:34:27 Sounds like it's turning into an even bigger task than you thought. Mar 16 03:34:58 on a side note the last patches i made to the source yield under a half second of lag on the interface and primitives manip Mar 16 03:35:04 Right now I'm trying to find out how to access the components that dial the phone. Mar 16 03:35:17 huge task dmj, but the result will be worth it Mar 16 03:35:23 esp for the community Mar 16 03:35:24 Yeah. Mar 16 03:35:39 That's why I'm eagerly anticipating your wrapper. Mar 16 03:37:07 man. just playing mp3s is hanging and sputterng.. 34.3 /usr/bin/pulseaudio --system --high-p Mar 16 03:39:36 superman Mar 16 03:39:46 pupnik_: I've seen that also on the first 20s or so of some MP3 Mar 16 03:40:01 specially when mediaplayer is launched from gPodder Mar 16 03:40:31 I believe there is a bug already on it Mar 16 03:41:20 * DocScrutinizer thinks dialer app has to go opensource most urgently Mar 16 03:41:34 but the worst offender right now is the notification sound that either pauses or sutters during media playback Mar 16 03:41:35 and probably one of the least likely. Mar 16 03:41:46 DocScrutinizer: You mean the phone dialing app? Mar 16 03:41:57 GeneralAntilles: yeah, real PITA Mar 16 03:42:07 dmj7261: yep Mar 16 03:42:13 I agree. Mar 16 03:42:21 DocScrutinizer, frozen-trout assisted arguments may speed things along. Mar 16 03:42:24 DocScrutinizer: I think it is probably faster to reimplement a new one that to wait for Nokia to opensource it Mar 16 03:42:36 DocScrutinizer: Do you know what apis control the phone? Mar 16 03:42:36 hehehe Mar 16 03:42:55 dmj7261: only cloudy ideas Mar 16 03:42:59 I was thinking of writing a simple one. Mar 16 03:43:06 telepathy comes to mind Mar 16 03:43:28 does telepathy control the gsm calls too? Mar 16 03:43:46 I believe that the drivers actually are d-bus accessible no? Mar 16 03:43:56 dmj7261, more or less. Mar 16 03:44:06 phonet is another buzzword Mar 16 03:44:28 What I want to be able to do is dial a number and start a phone call in my own app. Mar 16 03:44:54 that's easy I guess Mar 16 03:45:07 dmj7261: I've seen the dbus command line for it Mar 16 03:45:07 there are dbus calls I seem to remember Mar 16 03:45:21 One thing I miss about Flash videos is that they didn't start playing in background tabs. Mar 16 03:45:21 somewhere either on talk,maemo.org or on the wiki Mar 16 03:45:23 Could you look those up for me? Mar 16 03:45:28 all of those open up the nokia dialer app though Mar 16 03:46:37 so the dialer app will come to the foreground? Mar 16 03:46:47 Oh ic Mar 16 03:47:13 http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Jebba/DBUS#dbus-send-call Mar 16 03:47:34 dmj7261: yup Mar 16 03:48:18 I'm afraid even pnatd ATD911 does Mar 16 03:48:25 hmm Mar 16 03:48:32 That might be problematic Mar 16 03:49:43 see, aiui dialer app really is a "daemon" listening to the modem all the time. As soon as it senses an ongoing call it opens dialöer screen to handle it Mar 16 03:50:18 perhaps there's a way to kill that Mar 16 03:50:26 sure there is Mar 16 03:50:59 don't ask me how Mar 16 03:51:34 but I'm rather sure that's a strongly discurraged way Mar 16 03:52:01 I'm thinking of a phone app that will allow people without any vision to dial the phone. Mar 16 03:52:03 s/discurraged/deprecated Mar 16 03:52:52 that makes a GREAT reasoning for a bug ticket to open up the Nokia dialer :) Mar 16 03:53:53 or at least comprehensively document the interfaces and operation modes Mar 16 03:54:05 Yep, I'd like to add a vision-impaired ui+tools to the n900, so it becomes an excellent (and affordable) accessiblity tool. Mar 16 03:54:23 file a bug Mar 16 03:55:05 yeah, the main reason the current one doesn't work, is the phone app can't speak, so the person would have to guess the numbers. Mar 16 03:55:56 dang, we all thought that's the very least we get with N900 lunix based 'open' OS: being able to implement such things Mar 16 03:56:54 is maemo repository server down, I can download packages there Mar 16 03:57:09 http://repository.maemo.org/extras/pool/fremantle Mar 16 03:57:21 [2010-03-16 01:55:05] njsf_: the problem with caller specific ringtones is: dialer app is closed source, and nobody seems to know how to swap the ringtone 'on the fly' Mar 16 03:58:27 repo seems borked atm. Some complaints in last few hours Mar 16 03:59:01 Perhaps I will file a bug, and then wait on implementing phone functions. Mar 16 04:00:05 Well there are many basic issues with the phone app as it stands now IMO Mar 16 04:00:10 most actually already bugs Mar 16 04:00:40 I'd be glad to fix the bugs if I could. Mar 16 04:00:42 like, Celular call an option even when celular network is not available (either for real / phone off/ or no sim) Mar 16 04:00:50 dmj7261: me too Mar 16 04:00:55 dialer app is CRAP, and it's closed :-/ Mar 16 04:01:21 Actually most of the apps I complain about being crap in one way or another are closed. Mar 16 04:01:23 Well contacts is actually not much better Mar 16 04:01:40 media player, camera app, dialer, ... Mar 16 04:01:45 but the problem I have with contacts I may actually be able to fix once I get the time Mar 16 04:01:45 LOL Mar 16 04:01:58 because I have a contact that cannot be deleted Mar 16 04:02:06 somehow the EDS record is locked Mar 16 04:02:11 even accross reboots Mar 16 04:02:23 no merge of contact, no edit ebook removal Mar 16 04:02:32 sounds like time for terminal fu Mar 16 04:02:39 great :-D Mar 16 04:03:10 And the "delete the IM field removes it from the server list" is just attrocious, sometimes it is the right choice, but a mistake can be awkward Mar 16 04:03:21 "why did you remove me from your contact list' Mar 16 04:03:51 and it is not an option, just a warning, So if you merged wrongly, you're toast trying tto fix it Mar 16 04:03:56 that's all a POC at best Mar 16 04:04:20 Oh, and Ovi Suite actually synced contacts and calendar Mar 16 04:04:53 but the lastest 'improvement update' just removed calendar sync for N900 and made contact crash (probably the lock triggered it) Mar 16 04:05:22 Closed Nokia stuff is really in the way. Only cool thing there is the SIP+Skype integration Mar 16 04:05:33 Conversations is dog slow to display... Mar 16 04:06:02 from what I hear, the skype thing is actually far better for us than the winmo/android users. Mar 16 04:06:06 even there are bugs Mar 16 04:06:22 It takes me ~40s between a notification and a window to open for a contact that I have some history with... yay for javascript filling of the conversation window Mar 16 04:06:31 winmo users just lost their ability to get a skype app. Mar 16 04:06:41 yes, skype and sip are the highlights, but everything else is pain Mar 16 04:06:56 inbound SIP calls are like "SIP:234556@mySIP.com" - no match with contacts numbers Mar 16 04:07:54 nokia should just make the dbus interface for this, provide a default UI Mar 16 04:08:03 and open the floodgates for community innovation Mar 16 04:08:17 agreed Mar 16 04:08:21 DOCUMENTATION Mar 16 04:08:52 friggin nokia dbus not even supports introspection Mar 16 04:10:29 well dialer probably closed for "dfferentiation reasons" - seems Nokia is determined to differentiate to the worse side :-P Mar 16 04:12:07 DocScrutinizer: Well that is why I say: open a dbus interface that does not call your UI. they can keep their crap differentiation :) Mar 16 04:12:13 If their ui is closed I don't care *that* much, unless the ui actually includes the system functionality, then it's a problem. Mar 16 04:12:18 "we promise you get world leading crap for dialer, with your Maemo phone" Mar 16 04:12:42 and then they have something like Palm OS 5 *still does* where 3rd party devs emulate the cool dialer du jour Mar 16 04:12:59 because they can actually interface with the phone api Mar 16 04:13:15 without the UI in the middle Mar 16 04:13:48 (at least the dialer, the on-call is also not overridable unfortunatelly) Mar 16 04:14:21 oh well enough ranting... Mar 16 04:14:41 I actually like the N900, its just though love... You want it to improve Mar 16 04:14:46 cya all tomorrow! Mar 16 04:15:03 or should I say later today :D Mar 16 04:33:15 yooohoooo Mar 16 04:33:28 my Zephyr HxM is arriving today Mar 16 04:33:30 errrr Mar 16 04:33:41 for ecockroach Mar 16 04:33:45 I mean ecoach Mar 16 04:35:40 for some reason my damn fm transmitter isn't working. I'm in the USA and also bought it here. Firmware is updated to the latest US Version. I can't seem to get the fm transmitter to work. Anyway, I can test or check to see if it's even transmitting? everything appears to be working, it's just I don't get anything on ANY RADIO Mar 16 04:36:44 slackmagic: you are the guy from the mailing lists? Mar 16 04:36:52 have you ever tried the simple fm widget? Mar 16 04:36:59 ptl: don't think so, haven't signed up yet for a mailing list Mar 16 04:37:18 ptl: yep, tried that, tried pretty much everything that's available for fm transmitting - to no avail Mar 16 04:37:40 well, then you're not the only one with that problem Mar 16 04:37:55 ptl: you're also having problems with yours? Mar 16 04:38:12 no Mar 16 04:38:24 two guys on the mailing list, I think Mar 16 04:38:58 slackmagic: you need a) a radio with whip antenna, *NO* antenna cable to some roof antenna, and b) enable FM-TX in media player forex, then turn the dial on your radio to spot the N900, while the N900 not more than 1m away from antenna whip Mar 16 04:41:05 DocScrutinizer: yep, I tried that. As a matter of fact tried it today with a friend's car. I knew he uses a small fm transmitter to transmit his music - used same frequency, not working there either. Mar 16 04:43:06 (used same freq) that's not the way it works, though. Your freq reading well may be off quite a bit from the one on other TX devices as well as the one on the radio Mar 16 04:43:45 you should scan at least +/- 1MHz Mar 16 04:45:13 I suggest you use a mobile radio for first tests, and place the N900 a few cm away from telescope antenna Mar 16 04:46:33 N900 TX is *extremely* weak. Max 2 meters or somesuch, under *optimum* conditions Mar 16 04:48:22 other TX devices may be 100 times more power and 10 times the max distance between antenna and device Mar 16 04:48:36 DocScrutinizer: have a creative zen here in front of me with my n900, doing +/- 1Mhz and it's not picking up any signal from n900, they're sitting right next to each or on top of each other Mar 16 04:49:01 then you got a real problem Mar 16 04:49:34 DocScrutinizer: yep, that's what I thought too Mar 16 04:49:55 DocScrutinizer: might have to call up nokia and perhaps see if I get it replaced, damn hassle.. Mar 16 04:50:11 yeah :-/ Mar 16 04:53:53 at least if you actually used mediaplayer to playback some music, then selected FM-TX from mediaplayer's menu, enabled it, and speakers actually went mute Mar 16 04:54:38 and you had no wired headset pugged during this exercise Mar 16 04:55:48 DocScrutinizer: yep, speakers went mute, no cables/no charging, no cords whatsoever, no errors displayed on screen, all looks as if it's transmitting, ANY radio i throw at it, nothing..plain nothing Mar 16 04:57:14 whell i finnaly dropped my n900 the other day... and it bounces nicely though took 20m to get the battery out from under a rack Mar 16 04:59:38 slackmagic: get replacement Mar 16 04:59:58 DocScrutinizer: I will, thanks for the time listening to my rant though :D Mar 16 05:00:18 yw :-) Mar 16 05:41:12 does apt-get update from extras-devel work for anyone? Mar 16 05:49:07 sure would beat waiting thru ham Mar 16 05:57:55 slonopotamus, seems that.. server is down Mar 16 06:00:48 goodmorning Mar 16 06:03:09 Stskeeps: morning Mar 16 06:06:07 * Stskeeps sighs over the meego on n900 thread Mar 16 06:06:08 s Mar 16 06:08:33 morn tekojo Mar 16 06:08:40 Morning Stskeeps! Mar 16 06:08:59 Morning guys. Mar 16 06:10:42 morning Mar 16 06:20:31 on the other hand, stuff like people spreading 'nokia n900 not upgradeable to meego' makes me happy i'm not in marketing Mar 16 06:20:34 :P Mar 16 06:24:21 haha Mar 16 06:24:39 :) Mar 16 06:25:03 You can write to the NAND... how can it not be upgradeable? Mar 16 06:25:39 upgrade-able obviously means live upgrade, like the SSU's :P Mar 16 06:25:48 Stskeeps, that's what I'm thinking... Mar 16 06:25:52 Which I don't actually care about. Mar 16 06:26:06 I use to flash my android phone twice or more times a week. Mar 16 06:27:07 I personally believe that Nokia will introduce a Meego version for the N900. Mar 16 06:27:23 repo is down? Mar 16 06:28:18 Timpa88 something strange on stage Mar 16 06:28:47 when will it be up again? Mar 16 06:29:46 Need to bug someone with a login Mar 16 06:30:22 TigerTael: well, there's going to be a meego arm reference impl for sure for n900 Mar 16 06:30:57 I would like it if Nokia makes the effort to make a consumer grade meego distro for the N900... ;/ Mar 16 06:31:29 tekojo: espejo repo seems working =) Mar 16 06:31:54 also repository.maemo.org is ok Mar 16 06:31:58 it's just stage Mar 16 06:32:14 TigerTael: a meego by a vendor is just a meego base system plus hardware stuff plus differentiation Mar 16 06:32:18 maemo.org's repo doesnt work for me at all, get time out Mar 16 06:32:23 Stskeeps, yes please. Mar 16 06:32:36 TigerTael: first two is easy, third is too early to think about Mar 16 06:33:00 Well, if Maemo 5 was more complete, I'd be more than happy. Mar 16 06:33:23 Timpa and you are using repository.maemo.org? Mar 16 06:33:24 there's still maemo5 life Mar 16 06:34:04 tekojo: only freemoe now, because repository.maemo.org for apt-get is down. Mar 16 06:34:14 TigerTael: what error do you get? Mar 16 06:34:17 err Mar 16 06:34:18 Timpa88: Mar 16 06:34:28 Stskeeps: timeout Mar 16 06:34:30 i'm starting to see the smart side of having meego as reference implementation, with everyone and their dog cutting backwards compatibility: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=47492 Mar 16 06:34:42 Stskeeps: "Waiting for headers" Mar 16 06:34:43 Timpa88: what does repository.maemo.org resolve to? Mar 16 06:34:47 then timeout.... Mar 16 06:35:11 tekojo: repo is being slow for me too and people in turku Mar 16 06:35:24 Timpa88 not here, slow because stage is taking a break for some reason, but it does answer Mar 16 06:35:28 92.33.33.136 Mar 16 06:35:38 An error occurred while processing your request. Mar 16 06:35:39 Reference #97.5dee9c3e.1268721332.145c0e46 Mar 16 06:35:48 Stskeeps: got same problem Mar 16 06:38:21 Stskeeps: u know why? Mar 16 06:38:52 Timpa88: i think it's being investigated now and right people poked :) Mar 16 06:39:02 Timpa88 stage seems to be down, so repository should give you a 20 second extra wait when trying to poll stage for files Mar 16 06:39:16 :P Mar 16 06:39:20 but it should not give an error (don't get one myself) Mar 16 06:39:35 tekojo: what ip do u get when pinging repository.maemo.org? Mar 16 06:39:36 it should all be cached Mar 16 06:39:38 tekojo: i'm getting an error at least on /pool/fremantle/ Mar 16 06:39:48 ping does not work on those machines Mar 16 06:39:50 I've got error too on /pool/fremantle. Mar 16 06:40:01 ping works :P Mar 16 06:40:09 apt-get install ping Mar 16 06:40:16 Timpa88: disabled in firewall probably :P Mar 16 06:40:21 that's not ping Mar 16 06:40:25 that's apt-get Mar 16 06:40:33 Stskeeps: hehe =) Mar 16 06:40:43 Anyway I get a 20 second wait and an ok Mar 16 06:41:04 504 Gateway Time-out [IP: 92.33.33.136 80] Mar 16 06:41:05 i get a 20 second wait and an error occoured while processing (...etc) :P Mar 16 06:41:06 (: Mar 16 06:41:38 * Stskeeps goes get his morning coffe. sunny day outside today Mar 16 06:41:54 waiting for a response from the isp on reason for stage being down Mar 16 07:19:55 re Mar 16 07:20:02 morn Mar 16 07:20:17 wow, GA's running Mar 16 07:20:21 hell must be freezing over Mar 16 07:20:58 GA ? Mar 16 07:22:53 generalantilles Mar 16 07:25:28 Rgr. Mar 16 08:10:43 ping Mar 16 08:10:50 pong Mar 16 08:11:30 what options do you have in the browser's option page Mar 16 08:11:39 the one that lets you default to full screen Mar 16 08:12:05 fucking thumbnailerd Mar 16 08:12:23 would'n it be reasonable to renice it by default and give it lowest io priority? Mar 16 08:12:41 as well as all other background shit Mar 16 08:12:47 and move to BFS finally Mar 16 08:13:18 timeless, not best person to ask, which version do you mean Mar 16 08:13:31 does N900 have Ovi Maps dev apis ? Mar 16 08:14:38 lcuk: n900 1.1.1? Mar 16 08:15:06 bfs? Mar 16 08:15:07 lemme see what ive got flashed Mar 16 08:15:23 Passeli: what in the world are those? Mar 16 08:15:54 timeless, brain fuck scheduler. the scheduler designed NOT for servers so it behaves much better for interactive applications Mar 16 08:15:54 not at present timeless Mar 16 08:16:37 * lcuk searches for a 1.1.1 image Mar 16 08:17:30 "background" applications are great PITA on the n900 because they are not really background, they consume cpu and io affecting UI usability too much Mar 16 08:17:59 timeless_mbp: using Ovi maps but implementing your own custom funtionality to it, does it have any apis to add your own stuff to it Mar 16 08:18:00 Arkenoi, the thumbnailerd shouldnt be running all the time to really get in the way Mar 16 08:18:04 whats it scanning Mar 16 08:18:23 Passeli, is there dev apis for any platform? Mar 16 08:18:59 lcuk: you mean for Ovi maps? Don't know, that's why i am askin :) Mar 16 08:19:32 lcuk: well, i made some photos. then i decided to make more and fucking thumbnailerd woke up - "wow, we have new pictures, let's index them!" making further actions almost impossible Mar 16 08:19:38 Passeli, by your question it sounded like other platforms had dev apis too Mar 16 08:19:43 it is plain stupid behavior Mar 16 08:20:09 Arkenoi, "made pictures" Mar 16 08:20:23 you took photos with cam or generated 2000 20mpixel renders? Mar 16 08:21:12 (im not trying to trick oyu, im just trying to see why its noticable for you when normally its quite well behaved Mar 16 08:21:28 with cam Mar 16 08:21:39 don't know why it went nuts suddenly Mar 16 08:21:57 Passeli: the way you asked the question is odd Mar 16 08:22:03 so its normally ok for you and just now it went bananas Mar 16 08:22:06 it implied their existence Mar 16 08:22:13 Brain fuck scheduler is not very great in real practice. Mar 16 08:22:19 btw it is plain stupid to index ALL images on the mass storage including application data Mar 16 08:22:50 Arkenoi: at some point in time did you use the usb port? Mar 16 08:22:58 Arkenoi, sure for you who knows - i think you can set your tracker configuration to be very specific Mar 16 08:23:05 thumbnail view is overloaded with buttons from qtirreco and others Mar 16 08:23:17 timeless, nope, i rarely use it Mar 16 08:23:44 Arkenoi: out of the box, it shouldn't rescan the entire volume unless you cause the volume to be remounted, afaiu Mar 16 08:24:06 if you've installed lots of third party software that might be interfering, then well, don't blame it Mar 16 08:24:28 timeless_mbp: well that was not my purpose, i am just trying to find if it possible to embed ovi maps functionality to my own app Mar 16 08:24:40 timeless: i found UI became unresponsive, ssh'ed to the phone to see what happened and noticed that thumbnailerd does both heavy io and cpu load Mar 16 08:25:08 Passeli: well, i think the simplest answer is 'no' Mar 16 08:25:25 the more technical answer is 'well, it's all just javascript and they had maplets, so you could be evil' Mar 16 08:26:32 timeless_mbp: hmm, so i should just look where those stuff is installed in n900 and hack away ? Mar 16 08:27:06 oh, i mean "be evil" Mar 16 08:27:11 yes Mar 16 08:27:19 well, if you choose to do so Mar 16 08:27:35 make backups of course Mar 16 08:27:43 and don't expect any stability between versions Mar 16 08:38:53 hello everyone Mar 16 08:39:43 morn jaem Mar 16 08:41:04 timeless, does mxr just scan the source folder of the repositories Mar 16 08:41:12 or can it be made to scan from generic giturls Mar 16 08:41:23 (and hence be able to setup an installation for internal components Mar 16 08:42:06 Stskeeps, hi. I'm just about to try out the Diablo Community SSU :) Mar 16 08:42:11 my N810 is happy Mar 16 08:42:14 hehe Mar 16 08:42:16 let me know how it works Mar 16 08:42:25 she's been feeling shunned since my shiny N900 showed up Mar 16 08:42:26 :) Mar 16 08:42:31 willdo Mar 16 08:42:41 jaem, the size difference is amazing isnt it Mar 16 08:42:42 that is, if the ISP isn't being more incompetent than usual Mar 16 08:42:48 ;) Mar 16 08:43:43 apart from general problems, the Residence ISP has a link to the campus network at my uni, but it goes down periodically, and for some reason, they have the routes set up statically, so all the uni sites are inaccessible Mar 16 08:43:47 heh Mar 16 08:44:17 so, big to-do over that stupid CNET article, eh? *shakes head* Mar 16 08:44:39 lcuk, to be honest, the N900 kind of makes the N810 look like a toy Mar 16 08:44:50 but I remember how I felt when I first got the N810 Mar 16 08:44:53 and it is still shiny Mar 16 08:48:55 lcuk: we have an internal mxr for fremantle Mar 16 08:49:12 there's a file update-src.pl which is responsible for updating typical source repos Mar 16 08:49:25 it isn't used for the fremantle/fremantle-sdk indices, but is used in general Mar 16 08:49:57 can you point me to it, it makes finding things easier Mar 16 08:50:06 lcuk: you have vpn? Mar 16 08:50:19 for a lot of the desktop stuff the public one is ok Mar 16 08:51:00 note that the fremantle/fremantle-sdk's index based on .deb's Mar 16 08:51:34 cool Mar 16 08:51:52 are you planning on (or is it already viable for) doing the same with obs rpms?/ Mar 16 08:51:59 mxr.moego.org Mar 16 08:52:08 already done for moblin2.1 Mar 16 08:52:32 i need to find the person who owns dns and get mxr.meego.com's CNAME configured Mar 16 08:52:48 we agreed at the last meego meeting Mar 16 08:53:44 great Mar 16 08:53:50 Stskeeps, SSU installed flawlessly on a (nearly) new flash of the last Diablo release Mar 16 08:53:52 woo Mar 16 08:54:10 :) @ community ssu Mar 16 08:54:23 do you know what lma & co have planned for it, aside from pushing various patches that already exist? Mar 16 08:54:36 I presume it's primarily for maintenance releases? Mar 16 08:54:43 lcuk, :) Mar 16 08:57:27 jaem: this is first test to see if things work Mar 16 08:57:46 Stskeeps, it seems to Mar 16 09:03:53 * jaem yawns Mar 16 09:03:56 g'night Mar 16 09:10:50 It's cute when people accidentally call extras-devel "extras-devil" Mar 16 09:11:48 we should call it that to warn people Mar 16 09:11:56 Shapeshifter, its also cure when people call the OS freemantle Mar 16 09:12:04 ;) Mar 16 09:12:10 cutest is seeing how riled GeneralAntilles gets about it ;) Mar 16 09:12:19 anyone here have 1.1.1? Mar 16 09:12:35 ooh, extras-devil? where can i get that? Mar 16 09:12:49 RX-51_2009SE_3.2010.02-8_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin Mar 16 09:12:50 this? Mar 16 09:12:53 timeless_mbp: in hell. Mar 16 09:12:55 1.1.1 as in PR1.1.1, yes Mar 16 09:13:15 tigert: i think that's 1.1.0 Mar 16 09:13:17 Morning, all Mar 16 09:13:31 timeless, oh? Mar 16 09:13:34 thresh: can you open browser and open the browser options section Mar 16 09:13:45 the one that lets you control if it opens in full screen by default Mar 16 09:14:00 TigerTael: or not Mar 16 09:14:05 my memory of versions is bad :) Mar 16 09:14:29 timeless, I'm not sure to be honest, that's what I'm using and I thought it was the latest. Mar 16 09:14:46 TigerTael: it's quite possible it is… there's probably a wiki somewhere :) Mar 16 09:14:57 actually, i think it is Mar 16 09:14:59 sorry... Mar 16 09:15:03 * timeless_mbp doesn't like numbers Mar 16 09:15:10 I think it is 1.1.1 Mar 16 09:15:21 Because I've seen that browser option to open fullscreen or not. Mar 16 09:15:46 morning Mar 16 09:15:46 anyway…. i need to know what the other options are Mar 16 09:15:56 start w/ the last option Mar 16 09:16:03 (i probably only need that one) Mar 16 09:16:09 morning jaffa, lardman Mar 16 09:16:14 hmm, have we had an image update? Mar 16 09:16:19 morning lcuk, Jaffa Mar 16 09:16:38 timeless_mbp, autofocus address field. Mar 16 09:16:46 n810 community ssu is being tested lardman Mar 16 09:16:48 ok, before that? Mar 16 09:16:54 > Open initially in full screen. Mar 16 09:16:59 last public for fremantle is 1.1.1 Mar 16 09:17:10 > Allow Javascript pausing - in 30 seconds. Mar 16 09:17:10 lcuk: cool, thanks Mar 16 09:17:18 that's enough, thanks Mar 16 09:17:23 np Mar 16 09:17:29 * lcuk likes the look of all the fixes we have for pr1.2 Mar 16 09:18:16 "pr1.2 shows as intro video the ovi maps coders being tortured for their sins against navigation" Mar 16 09:18:32 haha Mar 16 09:18:53 lol Stskeeps Mar 16 09:18:57 after having an argument an early morning in the middle of fucking nowhere with my wife over what ovi maps was showing us, i wouldn't mind seeing that in changelog Mar 16 09:19:08 heh Mar 16 09:19:16 this has a list of the currently marked public fixes tagged pr1.2 :) http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=568334&postcount=253 Mar 16 09:19:27 Stskeeps, oh? Mar 16 09:19:28 lol Mar 16 09:19:54 Stskeeps: your wife didn't learn not to trust it? Mar 16 09:20:57 timeless_mbp: we didn't trust it, but when we needed some info, it was important to get the info Mar 16 09:21:05 from now on i use maep Mar 16 09:21:24 wise decision Mar 16 09:21:25 take photos of paper maps around you Mar 16 09:21:31 Stskeeps: Lol. I've had similar arguments with my wife :D Mar 16 09:21:31 as a backup plan Mar 16 09:21:43 Stskeeps, what was the problem? Mar 16 09:21:43 Something is badly wrong if navigation software causes fights. Mar 16 09:21:44 strange MiXu- ive had similar arguments with your wife too Mar 16 09:21:55 lcuk: I don't really have a wife. Mar 16 09:22:27 MiXu-: you have an imaginary one? Mar 16 09:22:28 :D Mar 16 09:22:31 Yes Mar 16 09:22:40 The best kind Mar 16 09:23:47 achipa: depends on what you want where ;) Mar 16 09:24:07 python2.5-qt4 from testing to extras proper Mar 16 09:25:48 achipa: Well, making progress with the maintainer part. But that is really only for non-user section things. Mar 16 09:26:55 X-Fade: okay, just want to make sure we (I :)) don't oops our dependencies again Mar 16 09:27:13 achipa: Yeah, let's wait for it to be imported so we can see. Mar 16 09:27:21 X-Fade: ok Mar 16 09:27:40 achipa: It should pull in all strict dependencies. Mar 16 09:29:05 achipa: Looking at the logs, things like python2.5-qt4-gl got promoted too. Mar 16 09:29:13 X-Fade: in that case it should all be well (all non-system ones are strict) Mar 16 09:30:16 achipa: It looks like it pulled those in yes. Mar 16 09:37:31 ~curse shell icon Mar 16 09:37:32 May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, shell icon ! Mar 16 09:41:19 bought 2nd-hand n810, can you charge it only with 2mm socket? Mar 16 09:41:20 hmm, anyone tried writing a program for online banking? didnt see one so far. due to security risks? Mar 16 09:41:40 what security risks? Mar 16 09:41:54 what kind of online banking program do you need? O_o Mar 16 09:41:58 Elvaron_n900: I have accounts in 3 banks - each use different stuff Mar 16 09:42:09 no idea, just seemed weird theres none :) Mar 16 09:42:27 achipa: http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras_free_armel/python2.5-qt4/4.7-maemo7/ Mar 16 09:42:30 what kind of program for banking? Mar 16 09:42:32 well my bank dont require any software... Mar 16 09:42:48 X-Fade: yay ! Mar 16 09:42:54 Is that 2mm socker or 1mm socket to charge n810: http://www.flickr.com/photos/bitmaps/2227489106/in/set-72157603814848483/ Mar 16 09:42:55 achipa: No red there ;) Mar 16 09:43:16 So I dont see what type of software you would need to do your banking Mar 16 09:43:19 its not "required" it might simply be more convenient than throuth the browser Mar 16 09:43:36 you want a own written interface for specific banks? :) Mar 16 09:44:32 at least some of them should have common interface? i think they had such a tool on the apple zombiephone Mar 16 09:44:44 which banks? Mar 16 09:44:48 in what country? Mar 16 09:44:50 heoa: 1mm Mar 16 09:45:01 GeneralAntilles: hehe. Mar 16 09:45:08 GeneralAntilles: I just wanted to put that $0.02 forward. Mar 16 09:45:14 heoa: all tablets used 1mm, n900 uses microusb Mar 16 09:45:21 Here I've seen maybe 5 banks that you can access online , none of them have anything common when it comes to their websites Mar 16 09:45:25 hrw: what is the 2mm socket for then? Mar 16 09:45:38 germany in my case, but it was a general question abouth why there isnt one. not necessary suffices :) Mar 16 09:45:57 Elvaron_n900: not many banks have open interfaces for consumers Mar 16 09:46:03 kay Mar 16 09:46:05 well tghe reason why there is none is that there is no common api/interface for banks Mar 16 09:46:11 you can get a standard-ish interface if you're a company, but that costs €€€ Mar 16 09:46:18 german banks mostly use HBCI Mar 16 09:46:28 so basically you'd have to use screen scraping Mar 16 09:46:38 all I seen so far that some banks have common here in sweden is a way to auth Mar 16 09:46:39 and get around the authentication somehow Mar 16 09:46:45 heoa: moment Mar 16 09:46:48 but thats the auth only Mar 16 09:46:50 yea i thought there was something, didnt remember the acro is hbci Mar 16 09:46:52 which seems to be used in germany only, though. but at least it's common (t)here - and pretty secure Mar 16 09:46:54 for personal banking, there's not any standardised interfaces, but there are some semi-standardised interfaces for transfer of bulk paiments, etc, for the corporate banking world. Mar 16 09:47:08 probably on national level only standardisation, though. Mar 16 09:47:28 heoa: n810 has power and headphones (3.5mm) connectors on right side Mar 16 09:48:11 and an usb port Mar 16 09:48:18 it's some funky hybrid port Mar 16 09:48:20 hrw: I see power plugs have an interier metal Mar 16 09:48:31 hrw: thank you. Mar 16 09:49:21 Shrik3: n810 has normal microusb not hybrid Mar 16 09:50:38 nope, not a normal one, but a Micro-AB Mar 16 09:50:44 it swings both ways Mar 16 09:51:42 micro-B is the one on current nokia phones Mar 16 09:51:54 but the N810 can act as a usb host device and accepts micro-a plugs too Mar 16 09:52:32 Shrik3: microAB is also normal microusb - standard defines microA/microB/microAB Mar 16 09:52:39 well, yes Mar 16 09:53:20 but micro-b is the one people refer to in most cases when talking about "micro usb" Mar 16 09:55:24 * timeless_mbp grumbles about namespace collisions Mar 16 09:56:02 * ptl grumbles about PR 1.2 not being out yet Mar 16 09:56:21 mh. dbus-send --print-reply --dest='com.nokia.profiled' /com/nokia/profiled com.nokia.profiled.set_profile string:general gives me "Failed to open connection to "session" message bus: (null) Mar 16 09:57:29 mhh nevermind Mar 16 09:57:35 should run as user not as root. Mar 16 10:00:30 gah why does this not work -.- crap profile switching business Mar 16 10:04:11 ahhh Mar 16 10:04:16 * Shapeshifter found the problem Mar 16 10:22:11 ham is such a piece of junk Mar 16 10:22:16 "no applications installed" Mar 16 10:22:19 well done, ham. Mar 16 10:24:46 "no catalogues in use". It's so damn easy to confuse it. Mar 16 10:29:17 damn, why is it so hard to find a m.u.d.s. download for use with dosbox...? Mar 16 10:43:05 what's a muds? Mar 16 10:43:09 Multi-User Dungoen? Mar 16 10:43:11 *Dungeon Mar 16 10:43:30 hmm Mar 16 10:43:34 MUD's Mar 16 10:44:15 hehe. Mar 16 10:44:20 I love(d) MUD's. Mar 16 10:44:50 hello Mar 16 10:45:55 muds were crack in 1989 Mar 16 10:47:02 Go around playing muds on my N900 Mar 16 10:47:04 awesome idea Mar 16 10:47:27 There is a mud client in extras Mar 16 10:47:59 i was actually talking about m.u.d.s. ... Mar 16 10:48:06 Coincidentally, I'm playing in mud today. Mar 16 10:48:09 http://www.flickr.com/photos/14560445@N08/ Mar 16 10:48:10 mean ugly dirty sport Mar 16 10:48:25 wth is that Mar 16 10:48:43 ok guys, maybe im a complete idiot but maybe someome can help me... im using ultravnc to have connetion between vista and maemo and it works fine at home in local wireless but how the hell do i connect to it from outside? Mar 16 10:48:56 port forwarding Mar 16 10:49:02 port forwarding. Mar 16 10:49:10 check your router/firewall Mar 16 10:49:26 Also dyndns - to point to your 'real' home address Mar 16 10:49:29 appiah: an awesome dos game Mar 16 10:49:44 Picking a good password is probably a good idea Mar 16 10:49:59 I suggest 'PassworD' Mar 16 10:50:11 port forwarding it is then, need to go home and fix the router Mar 16 10:50:43 oh Mar 16 10:50:43 wait Mar 16 10:50:50 I need scummvm on my device Mar 16 10:50:59 it is in repos Mar 16 10:51:01 install it then. Mar 16 10:51:16 indeed Mar 16 10:51:26 havent thought much of gaming.. Mar 16 10:51:47 Also - 'blocks' - surprisingly addictive. Mar 16 10:51:51 (5760) Mar 16 10:52:01 is any of you running kismet or similar? Mar 16 10:53:08 770 silferme Mar 16 10:53:54 ? Mar 16 10:54:51 Have I missed anyone? http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-community/2010-March/004129.html Mar 16 10:55:22 are we nearing deadline Jaffa ? Mar 16 10:55:57 pupnik_: Tomorrow: http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-community/2010-March/004122.html Mar 16 10:55:59 Council Mar 16 10:56:01 wat Mar 16 10:56:22 Appiah: http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council Mar 16 10:56:30 * Appiah reads up Mar 16 10:57:53 neat Mar 16 10:58:41 pick me Mar 16 10:58:54 run for council Mar 16 10:58:55 :P Mar 16 10:58:57 pick rmrfchik , he wrote pick me. Mar 16 10:59:05 doh Mar 16 10:59:34 * rmrfchik is da best council Mar 16 10:59:56 i like the candidates Mar 16 11:03:17 Stskeeps: did you see the repo down last night? Mar 16 11:03:29 repo maemo? yes, we spokea bout it this morning Mar 16 11:03:33 i'm not in charge of repos though Mar 16 11:03:45 mhm Mar 16 11:05:26 Jaffa, what sort order is that? :P Mar 16 11:07:42 height? Mar 16 11:16:02 has anyone tried out nitroid on n900? my brother is thinking about getting an n900, too, and he wants to know if it runs etc. but i don't want to dig so deep just to tell him "yes, works", since i see no need for that on my phone Mar 16 11:16:24 define 'works' Mar 16 11:16:33 and why you'd want it Mar 16 11:16:58 me: i dont. my brother: no idea. works: well, theres different states of "working", give me a description of how well it works and i'll pass it on Mar 16 11:17:36 i dont see why there would be any android app that couldnt be written for maemo natively, so i see no need to have a second OS on my phone Mar 16 11:17:52 i think it is more like a proof of concept still Mar 16 11:17:58 kay Mar 16 11:18:33 i think that sums it up enough Mar 16 11:19:51 GAN900: Now alphabetical Mar 16 11:21:00 mooo Mar 16 11:21:55 Hi everybody ! Mar 16 11:22:29 Hi all. On my N900 I connect to a wlan, then im-plugin tries to connect and fails. then i log in at the web capture portal thing. then how do i reconnect my accounts? Mar 16 11:22:37 Shapeshifter: heh, update :-) Mar 16 11:23:24 hi Khertan mgedmin Mar 16 11:23:40 we're actually two unrelated people, you know Mar 16 11:23:46 I'm not his last name Mar 16 11:23:50 hello lcuk Mar 16 11:24:14 (clearly I'm "on the internet", since I'm here...) Mar 16 11:24:28 actually i was using mgedmin as a curse word towards Khertan :p Mar 16 11:25:04 CPU: 45.2% (pulseaudio + panucci @ 250mhz) Mar 16 11:25:30 that is an embarassment Mar 16 11:25:35 http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council/Candidate_declarations_for_March_2010 <-- should probably go in the topic Mar 16 11:25:38 lcuk: héhé Mar 16 11:26:06 pupnik: as it s running at 250mhz i didn't see problems Mar 16 11:27:07 stuttering playback on opening a webpage. 6 times greater cpu use than necessary. Mar 16 11:27:35 stuttering on every application window switch Mar 16 11:28:19 http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/16/nokia-meego-door-is-not-closed-on-n900/ Mar 16 11:30:30 "please do not take this yet as a commitment to fully productise MeeGo on N900" Mar 16 11:30:35 Jaffa: hum ... just say "no but maybe yes" and "yes but maybe no" Mar 16 11:30:56 Jaffa, the spread of candidates for the council looks good Mar 16 11:32:41 hmm i need a widget to change my keyboard layout, did i miss something or is there none yet? Mar 16 11:32:47 good day Mar 16 11:33:02 lcuk: It does Mar 16 11:33:12 lcuk: Still time for you to change your mind ;-) Mar 16 11:33:35 hi TomaszD Mar 16 11:33:38 i know :) i wrote up something earlier Mar 16 11:33:54 but then i wrote up counter to myself Mar 16 11:34:00 hmm, 18h with WLAN&SIP, GSM -> lshal says 75% bat Mar 16 11:34:17 you know what guys? From the limited tests I've performed, fennec trunk does render faster than microb, although scrolling is still slower Mar 16 11:34:26 meego panic, again Mar 16 11:34:50 RUN, there's a meego Mar 16 11:34:54 * lcuk is gonna try something soon Mar 16 11:35:02 not today but a software test Mar 16 11:36:07 i got ignored :( Mar 16 11:36:24 Is there a way (easy way) to log into an SSH session on my N900 over the USB cable? Mar 16 11:36:29 Elvaron, there is something like that already, just look for it Mar 16 11:36:38 there is? Mar 16 11:36:44 i havent found something like that. Mar 16 11:37:02 theres a status icon for "current kb layout", but no switch widget Mar 16 11:37:10 hi, i have the usa version of the n900 and i am currently in europ ( bulgaria ) when i try to use the phone i dont see any service with my sim card from bulgarian gsm network. do i have to reflash the device with the international version? Mar 16 11:37:15 isn't there ctrl-space? Mar 16 11:37:40 ctrl+space? Mar 16 11:38:02 i know alt+shift from windows to change the layout, but n900 has no alt key and maemo!=windows :) Mar 16 11:38:15 why repeat what people say, try it Mar 16 11:38:24 :-P Mar 16 11:38:31 i did, it didnt do anything Mar 16 11:38:51 You have to set the other language first? Mar 16 11:39:07 set the other language first, in text input settings Mar 16 11:39:30 i have 1st language german, 2nd language english Mar 16 11:39:36 ctrl+space doesnt do anything Mar 16 11:39:59 Elvaron: you can remap keys but you may need to reinstall system if you mess up Mar 16 11:40:22 there's this http://qwerty12.qole.org/kb/ Mar 16 11:40:42 also, when within an application a notification appears "Changed keyboard layout" but neither does it change, nor does the status icon change Mar 16 11:40:56 Still no date announced for PR1.2 with Qt 4.6 ? Mar 16 11:41:24 Khertan, no date will be announced Mar 16 11:41:26 Khertan: 2nd June 2010 - right after children day Mar 16 11:41:39 ty TomaszD Mar 16 11:41:57 np Mar 16 11:42:23 thx ... i ask because they said they will announce it before to dev due to some recompilation needed for some apps Mar 16 11:42:32 at least i think i ve understand that Mar 16 11:42:51 but i may be wrong ... due to low english understood Mar 16 11:43:15 hrw: what is children day ? Mar 16 11:44:03 Khertan: 1st June http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Children%27s_Day Mar 16 11:44:14 yep ... i ask before looking to wikipedia Mar 16 11:44:17 thx :) Mar 16 11:46:24 TomaszD: thats exactly what i needed, thx. wonder why thats not in the app.manager catalogues o_O Mar 16 11:46:41 no idea Mar 16 11:46:54 anyhow, thanks^^ Mar 16 11:47:12 wow, thats a lot more users than I thought there would be Mar 16 11:47:34 np Mar 16 11:48:25 so, Im thinking of making the switch from the iPhone to the N900 - am i insane or is it worth it? Mar 16 11:48:44 depends on your needs Mar 16 11:48:47 now to find out how to make that into a widget... the .c source looks manageable Mar 16 11:49:14 #iphone Mar 16 11:49:28 if you want a phone, stick with the iPhone, if you want a pocketable computer with basic GSM capabilities, go with the n900 Mar 16 11:49:29 Hi, why there's no command "file" on fremantle? Mar 16 11:49:34 install it? Mar 16 11:49:45 nokia marketing is awesome Mar 16 11:49:59 'meego door is not closed on n900' Mar 16 11:49:59 oh. I thought it is a basic command Mar 16 11:50:05 don't assume anything Mar 16 11:50:05 :P Mar 16 11:50:13 Stskeeps, link? Mar 16 11:50:25 Stskeeps: Ovi? :) Mar 16 11:50:28 Stskeeps, stupid business idiots. Mar 16 11:50:35 Stskeeps, one way or the other, either do it or don't. Mar 16 11:50:42 Don't poison the community with the FUD. Mar 16 11:51:13 TomaszD: http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/16/nokia-meego-door-is-not-closed-on-n900/ Mar 16 11:52:14 heh Mar 16 11:52:17 RichardP: and 'basic GSM' means basic indeed Mar 16 11:52:48 * GeneralAntilles doesn't see any real missing features. Mar 16 11:52:57 "real" Mar 16 11:53:00 I want to use the OVI calendar web frontend and it should sync with the N900 calendar app, does anybody know when this will become possible? Mar 16 11:53:02 nice way of putting it Mar 16 11:53:15 real issues depend on the users perspective :D Mar 16 11:53:23 hrw: Ive read that, but it really seems to be a point people are stressing, why? Mar 16 11:53:27 oh and expectations (Valid or invalid at that) Mar 16 11:53:36 Only thing I'm kind of missing is per-user ringtones Mar 16 11:53:43 hrw: i mainly use my iphone for web browsing and email, either over 3g or wifi Mar 16 11:53:44 * nidO facepalms Mar 16 11:53:44 but I was always too lazy to set those up anyway. Mar 16 11:53:48 GeneralAntilles: yeah Mar 16 11:53:51 * noobmonk3y still has the standard ringtone :) Mar 16 11:53:57 hrw: i have some apps, but i rarely use them Mar 16 11:53:59 my phone makes phone calls, its all good Mar 16 11:54:08 RichardP, sounds like the N900 might be a good fit Mar 16 11:54:08 it receives them, too! Mar 16 11:54:09 RichardP, then you'll be blown away by the browser on the n900, and you should go for it Mar 16 11:54:13 At least for web it's best-in-class. Mar 16 11:54:16 hrw: i make a phone call perhaps twice a week Mar 16 11:54:19 RichardP: you have: voicecalls and sms messaging. you do not have videocalls, mms require 3rdparty tool + configuring by hand Mar 16 11:54:19 eh. microb is ok Mar 16 11:54:19 Mail is another issue entirely. Mar 16 11:54:20 lol - havn't actually made a phone call on mine in a week...the e71 still has the odd use :D Mar 16 11:54:24 sms about 20 times a week Mar 16 11:54:26 It's functional, but not particularly nice. Mar 16 11:54:26 thankfully, you get to have firefox too :) Mar 16 11:54:37 mail? mail app on n900 is disaster Mar 16 11:54:42 * hrw -> food Mar 16 11:54:44 lupine_85, MicroB kicks Fennec's ass, quite truthfully. Mar 16 11:54:44 no, I quite like the mail app Mar 16 11:54:45 mutt ftw Mar 16 11:54:45 thats not "thankfully", fennec is awful :< Mar 16 11:54:51 have to agree with gen, microb for me is pretty amazing, but then i have never had a decent web phone or touch screen before Mar 16 11:54:55 GeneralAntilles, no, it doesn't. It's bugged to death. Mar 16 11:55:03 and i miss a working maps application Mar 16 11:55:06 or a decent gps Mar 16 11:55:07 lupine_85, Maemo 4 or Maemo 5? :) Mar 16 11:55:08 for me too, firefox is slowwww Mar 16 11:55:10 nidO, check fennect trunk daily build, it's much better Mar 16 11:55:12 microb :) Mar 16 11:55:22 lupine_85, that's not an answer. Mar 16 11:55:23 *fennec Mar 16 11:55:27 firefox takes too long to start up for my liking, but once it's up, it's god Mar 16 11:55:28 good* Mar 16 11:55:33 microb on maemo 5 Mar 16 11:55:37 yea, but mostly you need it fast :) Mar 16 11:55:41 lupine_85, then how do you mean "bugged"? :) Mar 16 11:55:44 so startup time is kinda important Mar 16 11:55:48 mostly, I need it standards compliant Mar 16 11:55:49 * noobmonk3y needs to create a maemo bbs lol Mar 16 11:55:54 should i be concerned with the meego talk ive picked up on in here since i joined? :) is there a future for the N900 if i bought it now? Mar 16 11:56:03 richard - yes Mar 16 11:56:06 * GeneralAntilles sighs at that again. Mar 16 11:56:12 RichardP, probably, but possibly not Mar 16 11:56:13 * GeneralAntilles stabs Ari. Mar 16 11:56:26 lupine - yes there will be, but again done that convo to death :) Mar 16 11:56:35 bug #8362 Mar 16 11:56:36 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8362 Some combination of Maemo 5 + Nokia N900 results in improper onChange callbacks in the maemo browser Mar 16 11:56:40 * noobmonk3y thinks GeneralAntilles has some pent up agression :D Mar 16 11:56:57 RichardP: sorry, yes to the future, not the concern Mar 16 11:56:58 MicroB exposed that particular issue after about 5 minutes of using it Mar 16 11:57:11 I'm tired of Nokia constantly poisoning and hobbling every positive thing they do. Mar 16 11:57:11 leaves me concerned as to what else it does wrong, only less visibly Mar 16 11:57:12 Nobody knows what MeeGo is, why would you want it on a perfectly working N900 :) Mar 16 11:57:37 X-Fade: good point.... but everyone wants the latest stuff - even if only to whinge ;) Mar 16 11:57:45 lupine_85, it's FIXED. Mar 16 11:57:52 FYI, the Meego main webpage has a picture of an N900 on it Mar 16 11:57:53 GeneralAntilles: would you mind to change chan topic to include Stskeeps' tmo post 'love the bomb' ? Mar 16 11:57:53 yes, because I spotted and reported it Mar 16 11:57:58 Don't expect anything wroking from MeeGo for end-users in quite a while. Mar 16 11:58:05 For developers, yes. Mar 16 11:58:08 X-Fade: well, the concern is if Nokia drop maemo and only go meego, then the upgrade route is uncertain. but then maemo version Y might not be N900 compat either i guess Mar 16 11:58:28 point is, microb has far less users than fennec. so it gets more stuff wrong. Mar 16 11:58:29 RichardP: That might be a year+. Mar 16 11:58:33 RichardP: You need o ask how much input nokia have had recently :) - there is still a largggggge community for the n900 :D Mar 16 11:58:42 (ignoring bug fixing etc :) ) Mar 16 11:58:58 lupine_85, yeah, um, that's usually how bugs are fixed. Mar 16 11:59:07 indeedy Mar 16 11:59:08 i agree with X-Fade gonna be a while, the n900 is still actually being tweaked and looked at Mar 16 11:59:10 RichardP, there is a dedicated team of developers as well as many many community people watching and helping with the current system Mar 16 11:59:19 RichardP: And we still don't know what MeeGo will consists of. Mar 16 11:59:19 RichardP: and to add to your confusion, Maemo 6 is also called Meego :) Mar 16 11:59:20 omg lcuk is alive Mar 16 11:59:29 * lcuk is working Mar 16 11:59:35 lcuk, which is being decreased daily. Mar 16 11:59:38 * noobmonk3y doesn't believe that! Mar 16 11:59:51 My guess is that Meego will be able to run all existing Maemo software Mar 16 11:59:59 GeneralAntilles, then pick up an ide and get helping - theres tonnes of code on gitorious Mar 16 12:00:00 iss - different beast not sure on that Mar 16 12:00:07 ill help marry up maemo bugs iwth code bases Mar 16 12:00:08 but all qt stuff maybe Mar 16 12:00:08 lcuk, not my cup of tea. :) Mar 16 12:00:11 and let you try supply patches Mar 16 12:00:22 X-Fade: GeneralAntilles: I suggest replacing "Can't talk? Register. Getting spammed? /mode YOURNICK +R" by http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=45213 , in chan topic Mar 16 12:00:23 i'd like to make a bet that meego would probably run on n810 if they made the right choices Mar 16 12:00:26 :P Mar 16 12:00:30 * lupine_85 is quite irritated by the presence of internal repositories, actually Mar 16 12:00:39 lol Stskeeps Mar 16 12:00:39 http://www.h-online.com/open/news/item/Skype-publishes-SILK-audio-codec-source-code-955264.html Mar 16 12:00:54 ooooooooooooo Mar 16 12:00:56 lupine_85: give it time, a devel repository isn't pretty Mar 16 12:00:58 Stskeeps, ill agree with that, but since its a phone it would be as impractical as android etc Mar 16 12:01:13 yeah, that's fine by me Mar 16 12:01:19 the same argument is made for meeg on pentium M for instance Mar 16 12:01:26 instead of silly "requires atom" Mar 16 12:01:39 * noobmonk3y requires.......... a coffee Mar 16 12:02:11 I want to use the OVI calendar web frontend and it should sync with the standard N900 calendar app, does anybody know when this will become possible? Mar 16 12:02:19 I think the N900 is about powerful enough for a 'real' firefox. although I do wish they'd doubled the RAM Mar 16 12:02:28 noobmonk3y, grab me one plz Mar 16 12:02:45 * noobmonk3y thinks the postage of a coffe could be interesting... along with messy.... Mar 16 12:03:11 email it then Mar 16 12:03:15 will arrive hot Mar 16 12:03:30 just put the cup on the CD tray and close it? Mar 16 12:03:31 lol Mar 16 12:03:34 yay! Mar 16 12:03:46 presumably, it only works with the foam cups Mar 16 12:04:59 "I am not a developer, and don't know linux language." Mar 16 12:05:07 * wazd facepalms Mar 16 12:05:09 I had a chuckle at that too Mar 16 12:05:15 oooooouuuuuch Mar 16 12:05:29 * noobmonk3y doesnt speak el linuxy..... is it like spanishy? Mar 16 12:05:33 He only knows Windows language and God's language (English) Mar 16 12:05:53 meh i'm lost in the jungle of information, anyone got me a quick link that tells me the ~20 lines of code needed for a c source to get a widget (just a button with a string text on it would suffice) on the desktop? Mar 16 12:06:24 * noobmonk3y blinkc, c whats that? :D Mar 16 12:06:34 * noobmonk3y blinks properly this time...... Mar 16 12:06:49 Elvaron: there's a armel.deb on qwerty12.qule.xyz Mar 16 12:07:08 or i could write it in py, then i could use sleeper's widget code but would have to rewrite keyboard-layout-applet's event Mar 16 12:07:11 ? Mar 16 12:07:38 i'm trying to write my first program for maemo here, not just "get a package" :) Mar 16 12:08:06 i should note that the use of the term "program" is misleading in the previous sentence Mar 16 12:08:07 it's just GTK Mar 16 12:08:11 download source for a program that you want to emulate Elvaron Mar 16 12:08:21 well, GTK + stuff Mar 16 12:08:40 Elvaron: http://qwerty12.qole.org/kb/Screenshot-20091230-134527.png and http://qwerty12.qole.org/kb/keyboard-layout-applet_0.1_armel.deb Mar 16 12:08:51 you're not listening to what i say, doc Mar 16 12:09:09 Elvaron: https://vcs.maemo.org/svn/maemoexamples/trunk/hello-world-app/ Mar 16 12:09:09 Uh, I know I am missing something, but how can I enable SSH connections from cellular data connections? Mar 16 12:09:21 TigerTael, it should all "just work" Mar 16 12:09:33 thank you, ynezz Mar 16 12:09:42 if you're running an ssh server on the mobile, and are trying to get to it, you'll probably need to tunnel some real IPs Mar 16 12:09:49 Elvaron: I'm so busy getting info for you :-P Mar 16 12:09:53 lupine_85, do you think my SP is block it? Mar 16 12:09:57 *blocking Mar 16 12:10:05 it's a possibility Mar 16 12:10:06 I have a real IP. Mar 16 12:10:11 ^^ thx, but i already have that app, now i want to try out and rewrite it as a desktop widget Mar 16 12:10:24 pop an ssh server on port 443 and try ssh to that Mar 16 12:10:35 Okay, how do I do that? Mar 16 12:10:38 ssh "looks like" https traffic, so that's generally quite good Mar 16 12:10:47 man sshd_config Mar 16 12:10:48 Elvaron: https://vcs.maemo.org/svn/maemoexamples/trunk/example_desktop_widget/ Mar 16 12:10:58 Elvaron: do you know how to use google? Mar 16 12:11:08 lupine_85, there is no man on the N900. ;] Mar 16 12:11:10 Add "Listen 443" to the file, I guess Mar 16 12:11:33 yes, theres like a bazillion things to read, i just thought someone here would have a good idea on where to start, you know Mar 16 12:11:34 okay Mar 16 12:11:45 * lupine_85 really hopes meego hacks less on layout Mar 16 12:11:52 its like saying "which is a good book for learning chinese?" "do you know what a library is?" :) Mar 16 12:11:54 Elvaron: yes, start here https://vcs.maemo.org/svn/maemoexamples/trunk/ Mar 16 12:12:00 yes, i will Mar 16 12:12:05 i mean, i am Mar 16 12:12:13 just need to find my vmware o_O Mar 16 12:12:22 anyhow, thx so far Mar 16 12:12:28 Elvaron: it's really like that. Everybody will recommend another book to you Mar 16 12:12:51 Elvaron, mandarin on cantonese?-) Mar 16 12:13:02 probably, but asking ppl who have more experience at least gives me some sort of filter Mar 16 12:13:03 please don't complain about *too much* response Mar 16 12:13:09 visz: cantonese Mar 16 12:13:13 i'm not complaining :) Mar 16 12:13:20 i'm overly happy with what you all gave me Mar 16 12:13:26 now i need to work on it^^ Mar 16 12:15:41 Hello Mar 16 12:15:59 woah, my keyboard input has gone all funky. Mar 16 12:16:56 Elvaron, can't go wrong with pimsleur Mar 16 12:17:01 okay, it went back to normal now... that was very weird. Mar 16 12:17:38 cool, picodrive is finally out Mar 16 12:17:38 :D Mar 16 12:17:41 just downloaded it Mar 16 12:17:45 pimsleur? well, i think i have enough info at the moment, i'm still at "Downloading VMware player" :) Mar 16 12:20:10 hey guys, somebody know how to create a custom keyboard shortcut ? Mar 16 12:21:55 Does anyone know about OVI calendar sync with N900? It's really the only thing that I am missing. Any alternatives you can suggest? Mar 16 12:22:36 * rmrfchik is missing google sync Mar 16 12:23:36 Use SyncEvolution Mar 16 12:23:53 It works with any service that uses SyncML Mar 16 12:23:59 b0unc3: custom shortcuts seem to me like they're app specific and need support from particular app Mar 16 12:24:25 hmm Mar 16 12:24:26 there's a few global ones like ctrl-bs Mar 16 12:24:34 # apt-cache search synce |wc -l Mar 16 12:24:34 0 Mar 16 12:24:37 dunno how to add to these Mar 16 12:24:45 "apt-cache search sync" and it returns anki and ankimaemi Mar 16 12:25:00 SyncEvolution can be found from extras-devel at least Mar 16 12:25:07 i never really understood debian people and why are they so proud of apt* and dpkg Mar 16 12:25:45 MiXu - thanks, SyncEvolution is a good idea Mar 16 12:25:56 arachnist, afaiu years ago apt worked much better than any alternative, hence the pride Mar 16 12:26:06 It's a bit rough around the edges but does the trick, and has a decent ui. Mar 16 12:26:15 I remember switching from redhat/mandrake to debian back in 2001(?) and loving apt Mar 16 12:26:15 you think it works with OVi calendar? or can you suggest a different one? I don't like Google Mar 16 12:26:28 Don't know. Haven't tried. Mar 16 12:26:42 although debian's biggest strength was always the large set of well-maintained packages rather than the tool Mar 16 12:27:18 Myrtti, random: thank you Mar 16 12:47:17 hmm.. according to "ps -ef", the most memory hog is... pulseaudio! Mar 16 12:47:53 it beats modest, xorg, mafw (wtf?), browser Mar 16 12:49:02 rmrfchik: Doesn't say anything, really. Mar 16 12:49:51 yeah, sad there is no pmap utility Mar 16 12:50:36 lol Mar 16 12:50:39 so awesome Mar 16 12:50:46 I believe this is shared memory, but how can I know? ;) Mar 16 12:50:47 pulseaudio is aweful Mar 16 12:51:32 Very interesting. There is a topic in pulseaudio maillist. "[pulseaudio-discuss] Hard-coded allocation of 64 MB of memory upfront too big in some scenarios Mar 16 12:51:50 Seems like they sbrk 64Mb just for case Mar 16 12:52:41 'ipcs' Mar 16 12:53:00 64 MB? Mar 16 12:53:17 pulseaudio reserves 1/4 of the RAM of the device? Mar 16 12:53:27 rmrfchik: look for smap Mar 16 12:53:30 rmrfchik, top? Mar 16 12:53:55 rss 10316 Mar 16 12:54:09 and vsz 83144 Mar 16 12:54:16 * noobmonk3y returneth Mar 16 12:54:17 83MB!! facepalm Mar 16 12:54:38 top sycks Mar 16 12:54:44 lot of facepalming going on today! Mar 16 12:55:14 vsz is irrelevant in most cases Mar 16 12:55:16 my pulseaudio uses 2.15% Mar 16 12:55:54 random thought, has anyone tried running E16 or e17 in easydebian? Mar 16 12:56:27 http://www.selenic.com/smem/ Mar 16 12:56:29 see that Mar 16 12:56:40 and fyi, whoever created the queen bee widgets is a genius Mar 16 12:56:42 I love them Mar 16 12:56:43 oh, is e17 usable? Mar 16 12:56:47 no visz Mar 16 12:56:49 not really :) Mar 16 12:56:53 I think it looks cool though Mar 16 12:56:54 i stopped waiting for it in 1998 or so =) Mar 16 12:56:57 lols Mar 16 12:57:03 python app that checks shared memory Mar 16 12:57:04 pss Mar 16 12:57:06 I haven't tried it since 2004ish Mar 16 12:57:14 anyone know when the new meego os for netbooks will be released? Mar 16 12:57:35 shahin, try #meego. Mar 16 12:57:37 shahin: I hope sometime after the N900 branch is available Mar 16 12:57:38 :) Mar 16 12:58:30 shahin: if it will looks and feels like moblin it will sucks Mar 16 12:58:44 shiny leeenux for grandpa Mar 16 12:58:53 rmrfchik: ehm, why? i loved moblin :) Mar 16 12:59:21 rmrfchik it too oldschool for that. Mar 16 12:59:22 it can't do anything. 3 applications, compiz (read WOW!!) Mar 16 13:00:00 rmrfchik: i can't youse more than 3 applications at the same time? Mar 16 13:00:14 rmrfchik: PID User Command Swap USS PSS RSS Mar 16 13:00:14 5658 pulse /usr/bin/pulseaudio --syste 424 3476 3564 4888 Mar 16 13:00:26 that's playing audio Mar 16 13:00:33 shahin: $ xlsclients|wc -l Mar 16 13:00:35 162 Mar 16 13:00:36 pss is how much actual device RAM it's using Mar 16 13:01:00 rmrfchik: what? Mar 16 13:02:20 how is it calculated? Mar 16 13:02:24 * noobmonk3y blinks... did someone ask the meego/mobilny n900 / maemo when question again? :D Mar 16 13:02:59 \\o 2.1 Mar 16 13:03:27 ehr 1.2 :) Mar 16 13:04:30 just play an mp3 and look at cpumem applet, then keep playing mp3 and look at battery Mar 16 13:04:37 Uh, is it normal for my phone not to connect to cellular data even though it's set to automatically connect? I mean, there is nothing on the phone actually trying to use it, but, if there's no cell-data connection, Nokia Messaging doesn't check for new mail... Mar 16 13:04:41 Catch 22? Mar 16 13:05:28 i connect manually Mar 16 13:06:45 Just wondering. Mar 16 13:07:02 TigerTael: i had a problem like that Mar 16 13:07:19 It happens after first booting... Mar 16 13:07:43 Doesn't bother to connect to cell-data because there's nothing that wants to use it and Nokia Messaging takes a passive role. Mar 16 13:09:11 presumably it'll open a cellular connection when the messaging application tries to open a socket? Mar 16 13:09:24 Which it never does... Mar 16 13:09:44 odd. why not? do you not have it set up to check every n minutes? Mar 16 13:09:51 lupine_85, yeah. Mar 16 13:10:33 * lupine_85 has sip and xmpp and smtp accounts and they all get connectivity when they ask for it Mar 16 13:11:00 Let me do a more thorough test. Mar 16 13:16:08 hmm i dont seem to find a good example of code where the default widget box (96x96 pixels, beveled edge/dark-grey gradient style) is being drawn Mar 16 13:34:01 * Khertan just discover paste2.org Mar 16 13:34:06 * noobmonk3y blinks Mar 16 13:47:32 * TigerTael waits for the 15 minute interval to come up to check mail automatically. Mar 16 13:48:23 1.2? Mar 16 13:49:47 Still hasn't kicked in yet. Mar 16 13:52:13 what hasn't kicked in yet? Mar 16 13:53:01 who's kicking who? :D Mar 16 13:53:28 v-tech? Mar 16 13:53:34 Well, I have my cell-data set to automatically connect, but after a reboot, it doesn't bother to reconnect and Nokia Messaging is not initiating that connection either. Mar 16 13:53:54 So my phone is just sitting by itself, not checking mail like it's supposed to. ;/ Mar 16 13:54:10 hmmm my data connectiongs seem to have gone haywire after installing DCE recently tis a pain Mar 16 13:54:12 Seems that Nokia Messaging is taking a passive role. Mar 16 13:54:22 removed it and it was fine for a day then reset and didnt auto connect to anything Mar 16 13:54:22 meh Mar 16 13:55:07 wonder when they'll release PR1.2 Mar 16 13:55:27 at some point......... Mar 16 13:55:59 I haven't read about this in any bugtracking... Mar 16 13:56:09 create a report so Mar 16 13:56:10 And I think it'll be kinda annoying. Mar 16 13:56:29 meh Mar 16 13:56:30 meh meh meh Mar 16 13:56:31 it s difficult to fix unknow bugs for developpers Mar 16 13:56:44 * noobmonk3y eats bugs for breakfast....... Mar 16 13:56:49 Khertan, understood, but I'm just wondering if it's me... or is this expected behaviour. Mar 16 13:57:01 noobmonk3y: I take it you live in a trailerpark in east-USA? Mar 16 13:57:15 * Khertan is currently studying a rumours ear at his office hotline ... and spent 4 hours this morning what is the bug Mar 16 13:57:17 ;) close enough :D Mar 16 13:57:26 rumours ear? Mar 16 13:57:35 a rumour's ear? Mar 16 13:57:37 the ear of a rumour......... wow they have body parts? Mar 16 13:57:46 or the ear of rumour's even Mar 16 13:57:59 the ear of a rumour seven? Mar 16 13:58:06 lol....... Mar 16 13:58:19 riddle me this riddle me that...... khertan is high again ;) Mar 16 13:59:02 nha, hee iz french and hee lovz to baffeul us wiz the poweur of his metafores! Mar 16 13:59:46 awwwwwwwww Mar 16 14:00:00 * noobmonk3y pats khertan on hiz head Mar 16 14:00:31 Yeah, still no mail check. Mar 16 14:01:03 The way the settings are described, it sounds as if nokia messaging will only check if there's a connection present and will not try and initiate a connection... Mar 16 14:01:12 guyes Mar 16 14:01:12 And auto-connection only works if there's a connection attempt. Mar 16 14:01:14 Hi, is anyone familiar with the internals of the alsa-dsp IO plugin ? Mar 16 14:01:15 he's french Mar 16 14:01:18 nokia messaging might be pushmail... Mar 16 14:01:19 crazy Mar 16 14:01:21 he's totally on a cheese high Mar 16 14:01:27 don't ruin his buzz ;) Mar 16 14:01:39 hm, I think auto connect works for me even if there's no connection attempt that maemo knows of Mar 16 14:02:00 for example if I'm at home on wlan, and then drive to work, phone loses wifi connection and automatically connects to cellular Mar 16 14:02:18 I don't think that the incrementing of the hardware pointer in implemented correctly in the maemon alsa IO plugin Mar 16 14:02:39 Hé ho ... yes i'm french ... :) Mar 16 14:02:51 mne, is this on N8x0? Mar 16 14:02:52 tybollt: no cheese jokes Mar 16 14:03:00 i forgot the h Mar 16 14:03:01 :) Mar 16 14:03:22 tybollt: I've been in france for just under 48 hours now, and I've had more and better cheese than 6 months in the UK/US/Australia Mar 16 14:03:22 crashanddie: Mar 16 14:03:33 crashanddie: :D Mar 16 14:03:47 ShadowJK, I have no idea. It just says "Alsa External plugin". project site is here: https://garage.maemo.org/projects/dsp-alsa/ Mar 16 14:04:08 I guess that's on N800 and N810 then Mar 16 14:05:28 "This plugin converts the ALSA API over PCM task nodes protocol. In this way, ALSA native applications can run over DSP Gateway and use DSP PCM task nodes. " Mar 16 14:05:34 [https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/wiki/index.php?id=81&type=g] Mar 16 14:05:47 ShadowJK, in my case, it's a cold start... no connections were forced or made... Mar 16 14:06:00 And then Nokia Messaging just sits and does nothing because there's no connection. Mar 16 14:06:13 And Maemo doesn't connect because nothing wants to connect. Mar 16 14:10:25 Comcast's daily connection kill Mar 16 14:10:29 Gotta love it. Mar 16 14:11:36 hello everybody Mar 16 14:11:48 hello dr nick! Mar 16 14:14:46 hihi :) Mar 16 14:15:10 Hey I'm dr Nick ! Mar 16 14:17:28 * RST38h moos Mar 16 14:18:17 * thresh waves back Mar 16 14:18:18 GAN900: the biggest isp in poland also does that Mar 16 14:18:42 do what? Mar 16 14:18:46 thresh: how are things? going to the FRUCT? Mar 16 14:18:48 151025 | GAN900 | Comcast's daily connection kill Mar 16 14:19:06 which means? Mar 16 14:19:18 * RST38h suspects that the isp in poland does many more funny things as well =) Mar 16 14:19:47 hrw, Comcast kills you internet connection at least once a day for 5-30 minutes Mar 16 14:19:48 RST38h: we have many isps here Mar 16 14:19:56 usually more often than that Mar 16 14:20:00 hrw: which means you get disconnected. it often changes your ip Mar 16 14:20:00 GAN900: ouch. Mar 16 14:20:18 I am using UPC now - never had such problem Mar 16 14:20:20 hrw: (mówię o neozdradowych zrywach połączeń) Mar 16 14:20:33 They also shape traffic and physically abuse their customers. Mar 16 14:20:40 RST38h: i'm alrite. I'm not sure I will attend it. Mar 16 14:20:53 I doubt my employer will send me there ;-) Mar 16 14:21:10 thresh: isn't it on saturday? Mar 16 14:21:27 23-25 march, it says Mar 16 14:21:33 They added a new service fee so if Comcast screws up your connection somehow they chargem you $30 to come out and fix it unless you have the $2.99/mo insurance Mar 16 14:21:53 i'd love to listen to ab speech, but meh Mar 16 14:22:12 Considering that the Comcast techs manage to disconnect me at least once every two months. . . . Mar 16 14:22:40 thresh: shit, not good... Mar 16 14:23:35 ah the conference is on 25 march Mar 16 14:23:42 but still it's thursday Mar 16 14:23:50 thresh: On the other hand, I guess it can be considered work related for me Mar 16 14:23:56 arachnist: I have a luck to never had to use DSL or analog modems Mar 16 14:24:31 RST38h, interesting stuff at FRUCT ? :) Mar 16 14:24:40 VDVsx: Interesting people Mar 16 14:24:41 RST38h: not really related for me, though we do work with cellulars Mar 16 14:24:54 VDVsx: A few interesting technical topics Mar 16 14:25:02 and the only interesting lecture would be Sasha's one, and probably New trends in Maemo security Mar 16 14:25:03 hrw: well, never did i, but many of my friends did Mar 16 14:25:10 RST38h, is there a English schedule somewhere ? Mar 16 14:25:12 everything else, well no :-) Mar 16 14:25:24 VDVsx: A moment Mar 16 14:25:47 got one in Russian (I think) in the other day Mar 16 14:26:03 Anyone who needs ZAGG discounts, let me know Mar 16 14:26:42 Okay, I posted the bug. Mar 16 14:26:58 VDVsx: Ok, I do not see the English one, but can translate quickly Mar 16 14:27:35 Maemo Business Opportunities (guy from Forum Nokia EMEA) Mar 16 14:27:58 Maemo Architecture and Mobile Multimedia Processing (abbra) Mar 16 14:28:43 Object Oriented Approach to Mobile System Programming (Vitaly Repin, the guy responsible for Exchange stuff in Maemo) Mar 16 14:29:24 Maemo Browser: Internet in Your Hands (Leonid Zolotarev, head of Browsing and Places apps) Mar 16 14:29:42 New Trends in Maemo Security Mar 16 14:30:03 Using DBus in Maemo Mar 16 14:30:31 RST38h: where? Mar 16 14:30:41 Russian Maemo Community (some guy heading fruct.org whom NONE of us knows) Mar 16 14:30:47 hrw: Moscow, 25th March Mar 16 14:31:03 thx Mar 16 14:31:11 maemoworld.ru and maemos.ru presentations by respective site owners Mar 16 14:31:33 Maemo5: View from outside (iXBT guy) Mar 16 14:31:58 A few talks on Maemo labs in Russian universities Mar 16 14:32:40 Qt in Mobile Devices (guy heading FRUCT lab at some StPeterburg school) Mar 16 14:33:05 FRUCT? :) :) Mar 16 14:33:15 Implementation of Energy Aware Queue Management Algorithm (some FRUCT guy from SpB) Mar 16 14:33:44 OpenCV Performance in Maemo (FRUCT guy from Nizhnij Novgorod) Mar 16 14:34:05 ECG Measuring App on Maemo (another FRUCT guy) Mar 16 14:34:25 this is pretty much it, I skipped a few because they sounded irrelevant Mar 16 14:34:28 nice subjects Mar 16 14:37:58 tybollt: finland russia universities something or other Mar 16 14:38:59 noobmonk3y: translate.google.com, swedish, keyword: "frukt" :):) Mar 16 14:39:39 RST38h, thanks :) Mar 16 14:40:08 isn't jeremiah giving a talk there ? Mar 16 14:40:23 I think I read it somewhere o.0 Mar 16 14:43:12 VDVsx: I do not see him Mar 16 14:43:32 * noobmonk3y blinks Mar 16 14:44:13 * VDVsx checks Mar 16 14:44:30 * noobmonk3y smiles at the fruity goodness Mar 16 14:45:06 RST38h, 1h MeeGo - operating everywhere, by Jeremiah Foster, Maemo Mar 16 14:45:08 :p Mar 16 14:45:20 http://www.fruct.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=48 Mar 16 14:45:31 not sure if is a paper or a talk Mar 16 14:47:30 lcuk, Ping? Mar 16 14:47:42 lcuk, Did I miss your declining your council nomination? Mar 16 14:48:26 Why are the colors mixed in the maemo5 sdk? Mar 16 14:48:28 like red is blue, etc.. Mar 16 14:48:29 * noobmonk3y thinks lcuk fell asleep after the nomination and hasn't woken up since ;) Mar 16 14:51:20 * Stskeeps glares at jeremiah's email to maemo-community Mar 16 14:52:43 dneary, no i have things to consider :) Mar 16 14:52:53 OK Mar 16 14:53:09 lcuk, Someone mentioned today that you'd declined, and I hadn't seen it, so I was wondering Mar 16 14:53:30 somebody mentioned i am not sure its right Mar 16 14:53:37 should I buy a N900 now or should I wait for the next generation? Mar 16 14:53:56 Stskeeps, indeed, lol Mar 16 14:54:07 loufoque_ do you want a device now or in 6+ months? Mar 16 14:54:27 the answer is always wait for the next generation if you can wait, but when you've waited for that one there'll be one after to wait for as well. Mar 16 14:55:11 is there a terminal for maemo5? Mar 16 14:55:17 ofc Mar 16 14:55:38 * lcuk can see the grapevine works tho :D Mar 16 14:55:59 nidO: I would prefer now, but not if it's going to end up being unsupported software when the new platform comes out Mar 16 14:56:09 will the N900 get meego? Mar 16 14:56:22 loufoque_, nobody's told you? Mar 16 14:56:40 loufoque_: n900 will be meego reference platform Mar 16 14:56:41 the government has outlawed N900s. They've got people going out confiscating them Mar 16 14:56:55 I had to hide mine where the sun doesn't shine :'( Mar 16 14:57:04 I really wish it was a slimmer form factor Mar 16 14:57:16 dneary, nice lineup so far tho isnt it Mar 16 14:57:26 lcuk, Varied Mar 16 14:57:29 Interesting Mar 16 14:57:35 Stskeeps: where have you seen that? Mar 16 14:57:55 Try to work out where the power base of each candidate is, and whether they'll mobilise the vote and/or split the electorate :) Mar 16 14:58:03 Afternoon, all Mar 16 14:58:37 can i use the n900 video as campaign material :D Mar 16 14:58:40 hiya charles Mar 16 14:59:00 * GAN900 cackles. Mar 16 14:59:36 loufoque_: n900 as meego reference platform has been said several times, now. Mar 16 15:00:05 meegoo, meepoo - what's difference? Mar 16 15:00:17 without code drops I can say anything Mar 16 15:00:26 loufoque_, like here: http://meego.com/community/blogs/valhalla/2010/towards-day-one Mar 16 15:00:34 does nokia ever announce their updates for thr n900 ? Mar 16 15:00:45 hrw: Indeed, they are both rather poor misspellings :-) Mar 16 15:00:51 KrisC, yes Mar 16 15:01:00 in the same day that the update ships Mar 16 15:01:25 VDVsx: they're the same for updates to anything though, IIRC? Mar 16 15:01:25 VDVsx: no, they also announce them months before shipping Mar 16 15:01:50 "there will be PR1.2 update but we will not tell you will it be this month or next year" Mar 16 15:02:00 does anybody have an estimate of when the next one will be rolled out? Mar 16 15:02:01 hrw, no officially, afaik Mar 16 15:02:07 *not Mar 16 15:02:17 ie, at *Nokia.com Mar 16 15:02:21 hi, i have the usa version of the n900 and i am currently in europ ( bulgaria ) when i try to use the phone i dont see any service with my sim card from bulgarian gsm network. do i have to reflash the device with the international version? Mar 16 15:02:24 hrw, not officially Mar 16 15:02:28 KrisC: 2nd June was rumoured Mar 16 15:02:37 lol Mar 16 15:02:37 Nokia hardly does anything officially. Mar 16 15:02:49 there's no difference except keyboards Mar 16 15:02:49 thats still a while. thnx Mar 16 15:02:52 Basically, they fscking fail at communication Mar 16 15:02:57 Which is hilarious for a communication company. Mar 16 15:03:07 GeneralAntilles: sure, it is just visible in too many places and from mouths of many @nokia.com people Mar 16 15:03:20 hrw, sure, but not official. ;) Mar 16 15:03:24 loufoque_: meego.com Mar 16 15:03:24 "Nokia: connecting rumours" Mar 16 15:03:25 KrisC, I doubt that date, but dunno also Mar 16 15:03:27 ponyofdeath, do you have network roaming enabled for your operator (t-mobile I assume)? Mar 16 15:03:33 KrisC, certification apparently started the other week. Mar 16 15:03:40 GeneralAntilles: actually, it's a trait of every single communications company I've ever seen the internals of (and most of my employers have been communications companies :-) Mar 16 15:03:41 I think cert usually takes about a month. Mar 16 15:03:56 TomaszD: the n900 doesnt even detect the network Mar 16 15:04:05 ccooke, then the whole industry is a joyfully plentiful source of irony, then, I guess. Mar 16 15:04:10 seriously, technology-based companies are almost universally terrible at communicating with people :-) Mar 16 15:04:13 GeneralAntilles, where do you get your info from Mar 16 15:04:16 GeneralAntilles: pretty much, yes. Mar 16 15:04:20 TomaszD: i have an sim card here from the bulgarian operator not t-mobile Mar 16 15:04:25 pwny Mar 16 15:04:32 ponyofdeath, I had the same problem with an RX-51 and an AT&T SIM in BCN. Mar 16 15:04:37 lcuk, probably from IRC, I heard the same Mar 16 15:04:47 lcuk, konttori, other sources. Mar 16 15:04:47 GeneralAntilles: I find learning to laugh at it (and all the train-wrecks it causes) to be a Good Thing for my health. Mar 16 15:04:52 GeneralAntilles: how did u solve Mar 16 15:05:03 ponyofdeath, didn't. Mar 16 15:05:08 ponyofdeath: it is officially unofficial that pr1.2 has to fix another set of sim problems Mar 16 15:05:12 ponyofdeath, just tried to hang around other people with working cellphones. ;) Mar 16 15:05:14 so why in one breath do you say theres no communication, then in the other you are told Mar 16 15:05:27 ponyofdeath: grab real phone and insert sim into it Mar 16 15:05:34 ponyofdeath, try select network manually Mar 16 15:05:35 ponyofdeath: will work out-of-box probably Mar 16 15:05:46 lcuk, having Nokia employees skirt NDAs in unofficial channels is not communication. :) Mar 16 15:05:50 what the hell, nokia plans to make meego DRM-locked with Microsoft technology Mar 16 15:06:03 GeneralAntilles, hrw yes works in my free with sim card nokia but i porefer to use my n900 Mar 16 15:06:07 loufoque_: this is #maemo not #meego Mar 16 15:06:14 loufoque_, kernel-locked is an option, too! Mar 16 15:06:23 hrw, arguably Harmattan is a valid topic. Mar 16 15:06:24 hrw: do u think that the international firmware will change anything Mar 16 15:06:33 ponyofdeath: nope Mar 16 15:06:34 ponyofdeath, no. Mar 16 15:06:43 hrw: meego is the future of maemo Mar 16 15:06:50 lcuk, it's all hearsay, anyway. Mar 16 15:06:52 ponyofdeath: this is a problem with gsm modem firmware and this is update only by official releases Mar 16 15:06:56 lcuk, so, again, it's not communication. Mar 16 15:07:11 hrw: or do you prefer living in the past and not concerning yourself with the inevitable? Mar 16 15:07:12 lcuk, official communication involves announcements on nokia.com Mar 16 15:07:26 hrw: i see so i need to wait for an fix from nokia Mar 16 15:07:37 loufoque_: if what they said about maemo 6 is not being overridden by the meego transition, it will give the END-USER the DOCUMENTED option to choose between supporting Microsoft's PlayReady DRM or having full access to the device. I believe this was said on tmo in some official capacity by some nokian like qgil, but I may have misremembered the source Mar 16 15:07:41 loufoque_: so far I ignore all meego things as so far it is only talk which is cheap. show me the code is what may change situation Mar 16 15:07:56 Hydroxide, assuming they bought their device from Nokia. Mar 16 15:07:56 ponyofdeath: have you tried manually selecting a network? Mar 16 15:07:59 hrw: as u mentioned pr1.2 is there an beta of that somewhere? :) Mar 16 15:08:01 * lcuk nods in agreement Mar 16 15:08:04 Hydroxide, anywhere else you may not have a choice. Mar 16 15:08:17 GeneralAntilles: oh, you mean a carrier-branded device? good point Mar 16 15:08:24 ponyofdeath: sure - on 17th partition of my 65th harddrive. Mar 16 15:08:29 okay, i found what drained my battery in standby mode. it was cpumem-applet Mar 16 15:08:38 Somebody needs to force Nokia to GPLv3 Mar 16 15:08:40 ccooke: how can i select manually i dont see the network at all Mar 16 15:08:42 They're pulling evil shit. Mar 16 15:08:51 ponyofdeath: you need to be @nokia man to get it Mar 16 15:09:07 ponyofdeath: Menu -> Settings -> Phone -> Network Mar 16 15:09:21 MeeGo is backsliding in a lot of areas. Mar 16 15:09:39 GeneralAntilles: though I do wonder if carrier-branded devices that have been legally unlocked will have any legal obstacles preventing them from flashing the unbranded Nokia firmware Mar 16 15:09:46 GeneralAntilles: (or technical obstacles) Mar 16 15:09:49 It's unfortunate that Nokia is so hung up on their services malarkey that vendors and operators are going to be allowed to run rampant with differentiation. Mar 16 15:09:51 GeneralAntilles: (curious) how do you know? Mar 16 15:10:01 ccooke, which point? Mar 16 15:10:18 ccooke: ok now i see it when i did manual Mar 16 15:10:19 i seems to have mksh installed. For some reason, I'm unable to install it. Why? Mar 16 15:10:20 GeneralAntilles: sorry, that meego is backsliding. I've heard very little concrete about it. Mar 16 15:10:29 ponyofdeath: you have a network? Mar 16 15:10:31 ccooke, look at the Harmattan security framework. Mar 16 15:10:31 * VDVsx suspects that GeneralAntilles works for Nokia :P Mar 16 15:10:49 ccooke, look at the lack of enforcement of platform-cohesiveness. Mar 16 15:11:11 eh Mar 16 15:11:15 uninstall* Mar 16 15:11:34 ccooke, with Maemo 5 you at least didn't have to worry about signed kernels. Mar 16 15:12:02 Cook yes i see two one of which is the one i have an sim for Mar 16 15:12:25 is there a xterm app for maemo5? Mar 16 15:12:29 VDVsx, hey, I'm not the one flying into HEL. Mar 16 15:12:29 GeneralAntilles: according to the announcements at the summit, you don't have to. They committed at that point to allowing non-signed kernels. Mar 16 15:12:43 ccooke, for Nokia unlocked devices. Mar 16 15:12:56 ccooke, that doesn't help people who buy from carriers or other vendors. Mar 16 15:13:00 GeneralAntilles: and the other ones will depend on the carrier, yes. Mar 16 15:13:16 That makes community-sourced support that much more difficult to provide. Mar 16 15:13:19 thopiekar: you have it on device already Mar 16 15:13:25 people on verizon will be utterly screwed Mar 16 15:13:27 GeneralAntilles: this goes back to my question about what legal or technical obstacles will stand in the way of applying unbranded software to legally unlocked devices Mar 16 15:13:37 sheepbat: well, yeah, CMDA... Mar 16 15:13:40 hrw: I don't have a device just a sdk.. Mar 16 15:13:41 :) Mar 16 15:13:43 that too Mar 16 15:13:45 Hydroxide, well, it's all got to go through NOLO. Mar 16 15:13:48 thopiekar: same Mar 16 15:13:51 GeneralAntilles: Support for custom kernels has always been terrible anyway, though. I don't see how people will really notice. Mar 16 15:13:52 * thopiekar has just a N800 Mar 16 15:14:05 Hydroxide, so technical obstacles sit in the bootloader. Mar 16 15:14:13 GeneralAntilles: But you can run any kernel in open mode. Mar 16 15:14:15 GeneralAntilles: well, the bootloader can be replaced, too, right? Mar 16 15:14:23 Hydroxide: no Mar 16 15:14:36 X-Fade: even on carrier-branded devices? Mar 16 15:14:44 X-Fade: (after legally SIM-unlocking them) Mar 16 15:14:55 Hydroxide: that one is a definite. The next device will not boot without a signed bootloader. Unsigned kernels are fine, but... Mar 16 15:14:57 Hydroxide: After unlock they should be open. Mar 16 15:15:03 I don't believe the bootloader can be replaced with Harmattan devices. Mar 16 15:15:12 But I'm not sure Mar 16 15:15:18 GeneralAntilles: definitely not replacable. Mar 16 15:15:18 Not that there's a viable replacement available anyway. Mar 16 15:15:20 GeneralAntilles: Why would you want that. Mar 16 15:15:39 X-Fade: e.g. to use something more flexible like an ARM equivalent of grub2? Mar 16 15:15:42 X-Fade, as a technical workaround to lock-in signed kernels on carrier devices. Mar 16 15:15:57 GeneralAntilles: In open mode you can use any kernel. Mar 16 15:16:10 X-Fade, not on a carrier device. Mar 16 15:16:11 Hydroxide: no need. If you can run an unsigned kernel, you can run a second bootloader as a kernel. Mar 16 15:16:22 ccooke: true... Mar 16 15:16:24 At least, the possibility is there for carrier devices to only load signed kernels. Mar 16 15:16:32 Hmm. Mar 16 15:16:34 GeneralAntilles: If you buy a 'sponsored' carrier device, you know you are locked in anyway. Mar 16 15:16:41 GeneralAntilles: That is only fair. Mar 16 15:16:56 X-Fade, unfortunately the vast majority of consumers don't understand that. Mar 16 15:17:05 and Nokia's wasting another opportunity to change the market. Mar 16 15:17:08 Of course, it's the law in quite a few places that carrier locks can be removed. That would pretty much have to cover installation of non-carrier firmware, too Mar 16 15:17:13 GeneralAntilles: They never have been able to do that on other devices either. Mar 16 15:17:17 X-Fade: have they documented officially whether Nokia will require people who have met whatever their country's or carrier's rule is about earning the right to legally SIM-unlock will then have full access to the device? Mar 16 15:17:20 GeneralAntilles: So really no news. Mar 16 15:17:34 ccooke: don't assume that. at least for Win-Mo phones, SIM-unlock and firmware-unlock are two different things Mar 16 15:17:37 It's backsliding from Maemo 5 Mar 16 15:17:42 Signed kernels are bad juju. Mar 16 15:17:46 Hydroxide: That is between the carrier and you. Mar 16 15:17:49 TiVoization is inevitable. Mar 16 15:17:52 Hydroxide: That is where the contract is. Mar 16 15:17:52 ccooke hrw GeneralAntilles hey guys that seemed to have fixed it not sure what i did tho maby the sim was not inserted properly Mar 16 15:17:53 I don't trust Nokia here. Mar 16 15:18:06 X-Fade: some operatotrs do not do sim locking anymore Mar 16 15:18:10 X-Fade: well there's also a contract between the carrier and nokia Mar 16 15:18:10 Hydroxide: Basically you just need to enter the unlock code and the device is opened. Mar 16 15:18:34 hrw: Power to them. Mar 16 15:18:34 X-Fade: on phones generally, SIM-unlocking does not imply being able to flash a custom firmware without another layer of unlocking Mar 16 15:18:43 X-Fade: most carriers and most national laws don't address that second case Mar 16 15:18:56 Hydroxide: Simlock is usually not linked with firmware anyway ;) Mar 16 15:19:05 nokia s40 (and older) phones are easy to unlock anyway Mar 16 15:19:08 Hydroxide: They have to abide by local law. Mar 16 15:19:14 Hydroxide: Take them to court otherwise. Mar 16 15:19:22 X-Fade: right... I don't think I'm being clear Mar 16 15:19:53 Hydroxide: The unlock functionalty is there. If the carrier gives you the code, that is up to them. Mar 16 15:20:26 X-Fade: the "code" you are referring to is for sim-unlocking, I presume. is nokia going to ensure in their agreements with carriers selling branded n900 devices that once customers have met their obligation to sim-unlock they will also be able to replace the firmware or use open mode? Mar 16 15:20:44 Hydroxide: You can symlock your open device too ;) Mar 16 15:20:45 Hydroxide, I'd doubt it. Mar 16 15:20:56 Hydroxide: It is just basic functionality already there. Mar 16 15:20:56 or technically link sim-unlocking to firmware/openmode-unlocking Mar 16 15:20:59 GeneralAntilles: me too Mar 16 15:21:18 Differentiation fragmentation is going to be unfortunate. Mar 16 15:21:27 Hydroxide: Your contract is not with Nokia. Mar 16 15:21:41 isn't it great how we can discuss this stuff instead of rpm vs deb or meego on n900? Mar 16 15:21:44 Hydroxide: And a symlock is just a bit in some register anyway. Mar 16 15:21:44 :P Mar 16 15:21:48 X-Fade: I fully realize that. I can see that my question is still not clear to you, so I'll drop it - the odds of nokia doing what I want in this regard are small Mar 16 15:21:48 * GeneralAntilles feels strongly like wading through Nokia's top execs with a large frozen trout. Mar 16 15:22:03 Hydroxide: Nokia won't do anything? Mar 16 15:22:03 Stskeeps, Maemo 5 is a long-term dead-end and MeeGo doesn't exist. Mar 16 15:22:12 Stskeeps, nice little vacuum for energy to go nowhere productive in. ;) Mar 16 15:22:13 X-Fade: why are you asking me? Mar 16 15:22:31 Hydroxide: There is symlock functionality. Carrier can turn it on and off. Mar 16 15:22:32 GeneralAntilles: i kinda like this calm before the storm Mar 16 15:22:33 :P Mar 16 15:22:55 X-Fade: right. that's irrelevant to what I wanted to know, except in terms of the relation to one's agreement with the carrier Mar 16 15:23:09 Stskeeps, the "calm" is poisoning thing and resulting in a lot of atrophied enthusiasm. ;) Mar 16 15:23:15 s/thing/things/ Mar 16 15:23:15 GeneralAntilles meant: Stskeeps, the "calm" is poisoning things and resulting in a lot of atrophied enthusiasm. ;) Mar 16 15:23:33 Hydroxide: Nokia won't do anything about the relationship between you and your carrier. Mar 16 15:23:56 X-Fade, is a "symlock" like a "symlink" but hardcoded into the bootloader? :P Mar 16 15:24:15 X-Fade: let me rephrase. will nokia allow branded n900 sellers to permanently deny you access to open mode even after you've gotten the carrier to sim-unlock the phone and you've completed your contract and paid back the subsidy? Mar 16 15:24:15 X-Fade, that's the part I find unfortunate. Mar 16 15:24:16 GeneralAntilles: Yeah, something like that ;) Mar 16 15:24:32 Hydroxide, my bet is "yes". Mar 16 15:24:50 GeneralAntilles: right, mine too, but I don't think I had communicated my question to X-Fade that clearly before Mar 16 15:25:07 * GeneralAntilles doubts laws around this stuff have any clauses addressing software Freedom. ;) Mar 16 15:25:11 Hydroxide: Sellers can't deny you that. Mar 16 15:25:28 X-Fade: how not? Mar 16 15:25:29 Hydroxide: Once simlock is gone, the device is just like any other open one. Mar 16 15:25:42 Hydroxide: So really if they let you unlock it, there is no difference. Mar 16 15:25:56 X-Fade: so if simlock is gone you are able to switch into open mode and put on unbranded firmware and unsigned kernels (without DRM ability)? Mar 16 15:26:02 Hydroxide: And Nokia is certainly not coming between the carrier and you to negotiate different tems ;) Mar 16 15:26:04 X-Fade: even if you get your phone from a carrier? Mar 16 15:26:11 http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_security#Can_network_operators_restrict_you_switching_to_Open_mode.3F Mar 16 15:26:15 I think that answers the question. Mar 16 15:26:41 GeneralAntilles: almost Mar 16 15:26:50 Hydroxide: Check the harmattan security framework presentation. With the bootloader diagram. Mar 16 15:26:51 Sort of side-steps it. Mar 16 15:27:05 GeneralAntilles: it doesn't answer the question of what you can do with a device that used to be SIM-locked but is no longer SIM-locked Mar 16 15:27:07 Hydroxide: If no simlock -> do whatever you like. Mar 16 15:27:17 X-Fade: ok, that DOES answer my question Mar 16 15:27:55 Hydroxide: As said. Remove simlock == Clean device without simlock. Mar 16 15:28:13 X-Fade, somehow I doubt it'll be that easy. Mar 16 15:28:38 GeneralAntilles: Simlocks are generally stored somewhere not in firmware ;) Mar 16 15:28:41 X-Fade: ok. some mobile phones have other restrictive locks in addition to the sim lock, which is why it took this long to understand what you were saying :) Mar 16 15:28:58 lolmilestone Mar 16 15:29:06 I doubt disabling simlock will also simultaneously disable bootloader kernel checks. Mar 16 15:29:18 GeneralAntilles: No, it doesn't. Mar 16 15:29:23 GeneralAntilles: Check the diagram. Mar 16 15:29:52 GeneralAntilles: If kernel is not signed, check if simlock is there. If not, continue in open mode. Mar 16 15:30:01 GeneralAntilles: what's relevant really is whether disabling simlock will also simultaneously disable restrictions on the ABILITY to disable bootloader kernel checks Mar 16 15:30:03 That will disable all your drm though. Mar 16 15:30:47 Hydroxide, I doubt it. Mar 16 15:31:04 Bootloader checks will probably never be disabled. Mar 16 15:31:16 GeneralAntilles: X-Fade is saying that the answer is that you can use open mode even on a carrier-branded device if the simlock has been removed Mar 16 15:31:20 As you need a secure path from the top. Mar 16 15:31:25 there's probably already bootloader checks (before kernel) on n900 Mar 16 15:31:34 * GeneralAntilles can't wait for carrier-locked devices with locked signed kernels and locked signed firmwares whose operators are 3 versions behind from the latest. Mar 16 15:31:53 Support's going to be a blast. Mar 16 15:31:59 GeneralAntilles: if s/he's right I am pleasantly surprised Mar 16 15:32:33 Hydroxide, s/s\/he's/they're/g Mar 16 15:32:51 GeneralAntilles: no, I was referring to X-Fade Mar 16 15:33:01 GeneralAntilles: unless X-Fade is multiple people :) Mar 16 15:33:05 Hydroxide, http://maemo.org/profile/view/xfade/ Mar 16 15:33:09 singular they? Mar 16 15:33:13 Hydroxide, are you a native English speaker? Mar 16 15:33:17 GeneralAntilles: yes Mar 16 15:33:26 This is what has been communicated at the summit and Fosdem too. Mar 16 15:33:28 I'm aware of singular they Mar 16 15:33:30 Ah, so just a stickler on ugly PC pronouns. Mar 16 15:33:33 GeneralAntilles: no Mar 16 15:33:48 GeneralAntilles: it just seemed less clear in this case. I use singular they a lot Mar 16 15:34:02 does iphone and googlers phone come w/ such custom firmwares? Mar 16 15:34:07 GeneralAntilles: and I didn't want to assume that X-Fade was make Mar 16 15:34:08 *male Mar 16 15:34:19 but now that I've seen the profile, I will assume that about him :) Mar 16 15:34:21 tybollt, iPhone doesn't belong in any such discussion. ;) Mar 16 15:34:44 * Hydroxide has no objection to singular they in general Mar 16 15:34:49 Hydroxide: You sometimes can meet me in public ;) Mar 16 15:34:58 Hydroxide, Nokian's love to dance around using singular they and it irritates me to no end. ;) Mar 16 15:35:02 Hydroxide, so I'm touchy about it. ;) Mar 16 15:35:34 X-Fade: the next FOSS event I'll be going to is DebConf10 in NYC in August. (I'm one of the organizers) Mar 16 15:35:49 X-Fade: care to join us? :) Mar 16 15:35:57 * Hydroxide nods at GeneralAntilles Mar 16 15:35:58 Hydroxide: Not sure if deb is still a hot topic for us ;) Mar 16 15:36:07 X-Fade: hahaha :) Mar 16 15:36:29 X-Fade, at least, we can hope Nokia makes it not one. Mar 16 15:36:30 Hydroxide: i would probably get showered with tomatoes if i tried to present MeeGo Mar 16 15:36:54 Stskeeps, when life gives you tomatoes, you make pasta sauce. :P Mar 16 15:36:58 Stskeeps: but they'd be DFSG-free tomatoes! you can modify then and reproduce them until you have enough to make ketchup! Mar 16 15:37:03 (or pasta sauce) Mar 16 15:37:07 * thresh hopes nokia'll use jbj's rpm5. Mar 16 15:37:09 * tybollt prepares the ketchup canon and aims at stskeeps Mar 16 15:37:14 I'm on to ya! Mar 16 15:37:21 ;) Mar 16 15:37:25 Hydroxide: please make sure the BoF room isn't above body temperature next time Mar 16 15:37:25 :P Mar 16 15:37:47 Stskeeps: we will be in the US - we pay more attention to temperature control than Extremadura :) Mar 16 15:37:56 * GeneralAntilles hums the Ketchup Advisory Board tune in his head. Mar 16 15:37:57 Stskeeps: we'll be hosted by Columbia University, fwiw Mar 16 15:38:16 think i'm not going this time around :P Mar 16 15:38:22 Stskeeps: ah well Mar 16 15:38:56 * Hydroxide still hopes to see some M*o people there beyond the DD crowd who's still involved in that stuff via companies like Collabora, ARM, Intel, and others Mar 16 15:39:17 catchup, GeneralAntilles Mar 16 15:40:10 * Myrtti tries to read the backlog Mar 16 15:40:20 * Stskeeps just hopes people are sane enough to see beyond packaging format and towards the abilities of the platform and tools instead Mar 16 15:42:45 Stskeeps: I'm definitely not giving up on MeeGo before enough information, code and/or devices are public to make an informed decision myself. and I do hope for the best. I can't carry on this conversation too much more in #maemo before people redirect me to #meego or /msg though :) Mar 16 15:43:25 and I say that even as a DD, and even despite some disappointment about specific decisions and processes. Mar 16 15:43:52 Hydroxide: i'm not worried as from my position and knowledge about it and i still have quite an activistic agenda regarding maemo/meego :P Mar 16 15:44:17 Stskeeps: part of the problem is that the packaging format is announced/perceived as the action, and not as the consequence of platform/tools Mar 16 15:44:32 achipa: yeah, i know Mar 16 15:44:45 it was tried to be communicated a sane reasoning but it drowned Mar 16 15:45:35 this sanity thing always gets in the way... will have to do something about it Mar 16 15:45:41 i think the execution of the platform will be the proof point instead Mar 16 15:45:42 * RST38h moos at Myrtti Mar 16 15:46:01 and for the remaining issues, a good discussion that can lead to something will be good :P Mar 16 15:46:20 It will be interesting for sure :) Mar 16 15:46:28 * RST38h yawns and notes that as far as he is concerned, switching from .deb to .rpm is like changing your diet from gray dried rats to brown dried rats Mar 16 15:46:33 mooo Mar 16 15:46:47 Stskeeps: nokia could also have done a better public job of explicitly addressing each of the advantages they were abandoning with this switch and saying why they were willing to give each of them up. they did address the issue of having to make compromises and the advantages of collaborating with intel, but they didn't address all the criticisms. again, this is a communication and community management comment, not any comment on the technical ... Mar 16 15:46:49 yes, just hoping the day-one drop contains enough meat to actually be meaningful Mar 16 15:46:53 ... decision itself Mar 16 15:47:10 RST38h, gray rats are clearly more flavorful and tender. Mar 16 15:47:28 But do keep in mind, for example, that upgrading Python on Centos kill YUM dead. So, I would not be so optimistic about those mighty RedHat "tools" Mar 16 15:47:32 achipa: Even after the code drop, there will be a lot to discuss. But at least there will be a base. Mar 16 15:47:37 RST38h: will be zypp, not yum Mar 16 15:47:37 :P Mar 16 15:47:48 (not python) Mar 16 15:47:57 Stskeeps: I am sure it will be similarly made of shit and vapors Mar 16 15:48:09 X-Fade: yeah, without it, it's 'my package format is bigger than yours' Mar 16 15:48:14 RST38h: Looks like a C app anyway. Mar 16 15:48:21 Stskeeps: (not that etch is made of pure gold of course :)) Mar 16 15:48:28 achipa, even a size zero codedrop would be useful, since it marks the starting point of development in the open Mar 16 15:48:58 Hi! Is extras-testing relatively "safe" for daily use? Mar 16 15:48:59 RST38h, shortcut: the grass is always greener. Mar 16 15:49:06 lcuk: Yep. Mar 16 15:49:10 there will be problems in whichever method Mar 16 15:49:25 im just glad everyone is busy and working together to new problems Mar 16 15:49:25 ShadowJK: git init Mar 16 15:49:26 X-Fade: They should have just used FreeBSD tools :) Mar 16 15:49:33 ShadowJK: there :) Mar 16 15:49:41 RST38h, by the way, the FBReader rotation is in the opposite direction of the button graphic. Mar 16 15:49:48 X-Fade: Which, strangely, DO work, and have worked for years Mar 16 15:49:55 ebzzry, well probably if you ask such a question, then the answer is probably not Mar 16 15:50:03 ebzzry: er, it's _testing_ so draw your own conclusions Mar 16 15:50:17 General: Well, the graphic is not mine, I am using the stock icon. But I can always rotate it the other way, if it is such a problem :) Mar 16 15:50:30 Shadikka: OK Mar 16 15:50:33 Myrtti: OK Mar 16 15:50:54 * Hydroxide decides not to help prolong this conversation since it seems to be going back into the now-moot substance details instead of the communication issues Mar 16 15:51:17 RST38h, counter-clockwise is more useful than clockwise considering the device's button arrangement. Mar 16 15:51:27 DAE here use Extra-Testing on a daily basis? Mar 16 15:51:29 RST38h, but not having to ship your own icon is also a plus. Mar 16 15:52:20 ebzzry: I use testing every day and haven't had too much problems. Mar 16 15:52:32 X-Fade: OK Mar 16 15:53:01 ebzzry: But it depends on what your knowledge in the platform is. Mar 16 15:53:18 The reason why I'm asking this is that I've been Debian Testing for quite some time now, and I haven't experienced show-stopping issues. Yes, I mentioned Debian, just for comparison purposes. Mar 16 15:53:40 ebzzry, the two aren't really comparable. Mar 16 15:53:55 GeneralAntilles: Faster response than I expected Mar 16 15:54:04 X-Fade: My primary concern is the likelihood of bricking my device. Mar 16 15:54:23 ebzzry: Well that hasn't happened to me. Mar 16 15:54:24 ebzzry, well, Extras-testing is a one-step promotion process from Extras-devel. Mar 16 15:54:41 ebzzry, so the only thing protecting you are the maintainers themselves. Mar 16 15:54:43 ebzzry: But keep backups handy anyway. Mar 16 15:54:57 ebzzry, so it's not inconceivable that something bad could happen. Mar 16 15:54:58 X-Fade: Hmm, OK. Mar 16 15:55:03 GeneralAntilles: OK Mar 16 15:55:13 It's a matter of trust, too, then. Mar 16 15:55:13 ebzzry, it's unlikely, and I, personally, haven't had any issues. Mar 16 15:55:36 ebzzry, but if you're not really completely comfortable with things then I'd recommend ONLY grabbing packages that you need then disabling the repo. Mar 16 15:55:38 GeneralAntilles: That's good. So if I decide to use Extras-Testing, is it wise to disable Extras? Mar 16 15:55:46 what do you guys think of the first wallpaper for the star trek theme I'm working on http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2240466/Maemo/Screenshots/Wallpapper1.png Mar 16 15:55:56 ebzzry, no need. Mar 16 15:56:02 GeneralAntilles: OK Mar 16 15:56:08 ebzzry, Testing will always supercede Extras-proper. Mar 16 15:56:12 * RST38h transdickifies a spammer Mar 16 15:56:29 GeneralAntilles: Hmm, OK) Mar 16 15:56:48 ebzzry, in other words, Extras is just a subset of Testing. Mar 16 15:56:51 Andrew: Will the boot picture show Quim as Borg? Mar 16 15:56:56 What are your reasons for using Extras-Testing? Mar 16 15:57:04 I'm curious. Mar 16 15:57:23 Andrewfblack, complex! Mar 16 15:57:32 ebzzry: QA testing apps? Mar 16 15:57:58 X-Fade: I got lost there a bit, what do you mean by that? Mar 16 15:58:08 quality assurance Mar 16 15:58:18 it allows people to test apps for stability and completeness Mar 16 15:58:20 lcuk: good complex? Mar 16 15:58:27 Andrewfblack, tho this has mileage http://liqbase.net/star_wreck_keisari_ga.jpg Mar 16 15:58:30 Hmm Mar 16 15:58:35 How about for others? Mar 16 15:58:35 ebzzry: http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras-testing Mar 16 15:58:41 Andrewfblack, i dont like backgrounds that loow me to mix up widgets Mar 16 15:58:51 too much background detail loses the foreground Mar 16 15:58:55 ebzzry: There is some documentation on that. Will probably answer all your questions. Mar 16 15:58:57 lcuk, sadly I'm not particularly light-hearted about that image. Mar 16 15:59:01 ebzzry: If not... it is a wiki :) Mar 16 15:59:15 It wasn't exactly intended in a spirit of humor and goodwill. :) Mar 16 15:59:20 why not GeneralAntilles - you are captian of a starship Mar 16 15:59:48 Much like mullf's ever-so-mature troll photoshop. Mar 16 15:59:54 Thanks, I've read that. Hmm. Mar 16 16:01:40 GeneralAntilles, seems more a paint job than PS :D Mar 16 16:01:49 GeneralAntilles, i cant even remember why i pasted it now Mar 16 16:02:08 i think it was related to http://penguinbait.com/superhero.jpg Mar 16 16:03:21 why Jaffa isn't there^ :D Mar 16 16:04:22 * ShadowJK posts a few "mugen lies" posts in mugen's youtube video Mar 16 16:04:25 I wonder if I'll get censored :D Mar 16 16:05:34 though seriously... users suck Mar 16 16:05:39 expecting more capacity in the same volume Mar 16 16:07:04 the battery doesn't work? Mar 16 16:07:35 Ah no, people were posting "come on make a 1800mAh battery that fits in same door" Mar 16 16:07:56 and I said that anyone who claims to have made such a thing are liars, including mugen ;P Mar 16 16:08:10 oh, hehe Mar 16 16:08:41 They have a battery for N800/N810 that is physically just slightly smaller than the original, and is claimed to be 1800mAh (original is 1500mAh)... I ordered one Mar 16 16:08:46 tested out as 1200mAh :) Mar 16 16:08:50 hah Mar 16 16:08:59 Heck, the battery itself told my N800 that it's 1200mAh Mar 16 16:09:04 how tested? Mar 16 16:09:04 ah Mar 16 16:09:26 SpeedEvil, second by second current measurement from full to empty, integrate Mar 16 16:09:34 The best way to measure it is to weigh it full and empty, and compare weights. Mar 16 16:09:57 I didn't think the difference would be measurable.. Mar 16 16:10:14 AGHHHHHHHHHHhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH Mar 16 16:11:45 Selling replacement batteries with overstated capacity worked back when people bought batteries because they didn't get enough talk/standby time anymore Mar 16 16:12:34 because then their phone was a year or two old, and a 1500mAh battery would have degraded to less than 1200mAh by then, and the increased internal resistance makes the battery meter behaviour "worse" Mar 16 16:13:11 so popping in a fresh 1200mAh battery in place of an aged battery would still be a big improvement Mar 16 16:13:45 lol my battery has never gone above 94% :D - hehe Mar 16 16:13:53 Overstating capacity doesn't work so well today when new dumbphones cost 20-30 bucks... people mostly buy batteries to try extend their new shiny powerhungry smartphones' batterylife Mar 16 16:13:55 (and yes i know its based on loadsa factors) Mar 16 16:14:18 The meter and charger don't cooperate very well I think ;) Mar 16 16:14:24 how's ipv6 on n900? Mar 16 16:14:47 thresh, out of the box? nonexistant Mar 16 16:14:56 :-( Mar 16 16:16:46 thresh, it's ok Mar 16 16:16:56 there's a kernel package you can install that comes with ipv6 Mar 16 16:17:07 and the the userland has it compiled in Mar 16 16:17:37 * lupine_85 has permanent global unicast ipv6 via miredo Mar 16 16:18:06 * noobmonk3y feels better after a bit of troll hunting.......... Mar 16 16:18:10 ah nice. Mar 16 16:18:27 and i know someone who i can poke about miredo :-) Mar 16 16:18:30 -.- Mar 16 16:18:31 * VDVsx trolls noobmonk3y :P Mar 16 16:18:39 * noobmonk3y giggles like an ickle troll........ Mar 16 16:19:21 theres something satisfying at the moment when i hear things like "Why are there not any games, or why havn't we got this app, game etc...." - it makes me go warm and fuzzy..... Mar 16 16:20:14 :p Mar 16 16:20:22 thresh, my idea for what to do next was mobile IPv6 Mar 16 16:20:31 but I'm a bit stuck at the HA end Mar 16 16:22:05 noobmonk3y, what about fart apps, no fart app so far, I'm a bit disappointed with that :D Mar 16 16:22:27 lupine_85: well, i only care for wireless. Mar 16 16:22:27 How does a fart app work exactly? Mar 16 16:22:30 Oh pants... sorry forgot about my next app "Pull my Finger" - will start development once healthcheck is a bit more tarted up :D Mar 16 16:22:59 Pull my finger will be a vertical hand with a finger, drag it out... and depending on the speed it will releive itself........ :D Mar 16 16:23:09 mece, press a button and a fart sound is emitted, (I think) Mar 16 16:23:13 (or horizontal depending how you look at it) Mar 16 16:23:35 VDVsx: expert on the old fart apps hey? you should become a Troll :D :D Mar 16 16:23:35 lol Mar 16 16:23:53 VDVsx, any fart app must include samples from prominent Maemo Community members. Mar 16 16:24:04 lolololol Mar 16 16:24:05 GeneralAntilles: you scare me......... Mar 16 16:24:25 i never ever want to hear the right revrand Kathy trumping Mar 16 16:24:49 * noobmonk3y thinks that sentence should be framed and placed above the tmo mantlepiece Mar 16 16:24:51 please stop, ahah Mar 16 16:24:54 * slonopotamus quickly open fart ringtones shop Mar 16 16:24:57 lol Mar 16 16:25:13 timmmmmmme for some fresh air , brb Mar 16 16:25:14 VDVsx, you should stand again Mar 16 16:25:15 * noobmonk3y coughs Mar 16 16:25:28 noobmonk3y, revdkathy is so petite if she did ever trump she would probably enter orbit Mar 16 16:25:31 Then we can cut you off at the knees! Mar 16 16:25:32 VDVsx: Standing and styping can cause back problems, see a pysio first :D Mar 16 16:25:34 VDVsx, you're very active currently Mar 16 16:25:36 lol lcuk !!!!! Mar 16 16:25:49 physio* Mar 16 16:26:45 zaheerm, don't have time in the next month :(, otherwise probably will run again, but we already have a very good lineup Mar 16 16:28:00 VDVsx, will you consider standing next election, assuming there is another council? Mar 16 16:29:35 zaheerm, that probably will be the meego council :D, a lot can change till then Mar 16 16:31:04 noobmonk3y, ok got a solution ;D, open that in your n900 (it's flash): http://www.ebaumsworld.com/flash/play/658/ Mar 16 16:31:28 * noobmonk3y finds his n900 Mar 16 16:31:40 ahhhh charging, where else would it be ;) Mar 16 16:31:44 sorry for the less appropriated content in the pubs :D Mar 16 16:32:55 ohai thur Mar 16 16:32:59 * noobmonk3y is loading the fart machine :D Mar 16 16:33:02 hey Arif_ Mar 16 16:33:07 sup =) Mar 16 16:33:24 Arif_: ctachup of the last 10 minutes = noobmonk3y, revdkathy is so petite if she did ever trump she would probably enter orbit Mar 16 16:33:42 XD Mar 16 16:33:49 done, all caught up :D hehehe Mar 16 16:34:18 great! Mar 16 16:34:22 lol VDVsx - superb :D Mar 16 16:35:01 I can't dangle my phone around my neck anymore Mar 16 16:35:02 :( Mar 16 16:35:42 lol you could, but with the size and weight you might be crawling ;) Mar 16 16:36:02 * lcuk had n900 on lanyard for ages Mar 16 16:36:13 ive even got a pendant app lol Mar 16 16:36:19 I lost the rope thingy :D Mar 16 16:36:35 soon I'll lose the phone itself probably Mar 16 16:36:36 http://liqbase.net/liq.pendant.20091225_001.jpg Mar 16 16:36:36 :( Mar 16 16:37:16 lcuk: you scare me too Mar 16 16:37:37 * noobmonk3y is slowly getting scared of everyone.... starting with VDVsx .... *shudders* Mar 16 16:38:31 noobmonk3y, no need I'm far from you, but lcuk .... Mar 16 16:38:43 * Arif_ sends noobmonk3y some new firmware Mar 16 16:38:59 * noobmonk3y blinks... firmware whats that? Mar 16 16:39:05 * noobmonk3y throws firmware at Arif_ Mar 16 16:39:12 * Arif_ installs it Mar 16 16:39:46 * noobmonk3y thinks firmware and faeces aren't that far apart...... Mar 16 16:40:54 so many bugs tagged "fixed in pr1.2" Mar 16 16:41:07 release should be relatively soon Mar 16 16:41:38 now they can work on actually adding features! Mar 16 16:41:39 :P Mar 16 16:41:56 * lcuk slaps Arif_ Mar 16 16:42:03 * Arif_ throws bugs at lcuk Mar 16 16:42:28 * noobmonk3y eats the bugs and decides it's time to go home Mar 16 16:50:40 woops Mar 16 16:50:48 i accidentally clicked smth Mar 16 16:50:56 and it exploded? Mar 16 16:51:15 Arif_: and xchat closed Mar 16 16:51:20 awww Mar 16 16:51:24 * Arif_ uses mIRC Mar 16 16:52:11 how do i filtedr out the GOD DAMN wd.share.this.com redirection? Mar 16 16:54:59 ahah just disable f*** javascript Mar 16 16:55:22 what is this 3.2010.02-8 needing the softwareupdate from PC connected? Mar 16 16:55:23 what for? Mar 16 16:55:27 aww Mar 16 16:55:31 quit Mar 16 16:55:34 ovi store hasn't added anything yet Mar 16 16:55:35 would be opera on maemo? =) Mar 16 16:55:59 who wants to get together and beat-up the people who developed javascript? Mar 16 16:56:17 i need a field trip Mar 16 16:56:30 ovi should add as much as they can and not free till they switch to meego =( Mar 16 16:56:40 gouverneur, means you have conflicting packages installed. Mar 16 16:56:51 pupnik, if I supported violence, I would gladly support your cause. Mar 16 16:57:19 pupnik, me me! Mar 16 16:57:30 then lets go over to ovi management to beat them up Mar 16 16:57:53 me too >:( Mar 16 16:58:07 * Arif_ has no problem beating people up :D Mar 16 16:58:18 -NickServ- You may not ghost ZogG. Mar 16 16:58:20 haha Mar 16 16:58:22 wtf? Mar 16 16:58:26 lol Mar 16 16:58:42 I forgot my password for my _ less nick Mar 16 16:58:47 maybe its not even mine! Mar 16 16:59:49 -NickServ- ZogG has been ghosted. Mar 16 16:59:51 -NickServ- ZogG is not online. Mar 16 16:59:51 * ZogG :Nickname is already in use. Mar 16 16:59:54 are they kidding me? Mar 16 17:00:08 * Arif_ smirks Mar 16 17:00:13 they're playing with you :( Mar 16 17:00:14 a reconnect Mar 16 17:00:20 you can do a hold ghosting too i think Mar 16 17:00:45 \o/ Mar 16 17:00:49 \o/ Mar 16 17:01:00 the force is on my side Mar 16 17:01:15 |o_ Mar 16 17:01:15 what force :P Mar 16 17:01:15 anyway so we sucked up with n900 ah? Mar 16 17:01:28 sucked up? :P Mar 16 17:01:28 I got bored of mine already Mar 16 17:01:29 :D Mar 16 17:01:41 sure dark side force Mar 16 17:01:44 I'm still <3ing mine Mar 16 17:01:49 anyway you don't get anything in being good Mar 16 17:01:55 I did a presentation on it yesterday Mar 16 17:01:56 nowdays it's hard to get Mar 16 17:01:58 literally, everything on it Mar 16 17:02:01 "thank you" Mar 16 17:02:12 plugged straight into the projector and everything Mar 16 17:02:25 yeah it's cool Mar 16 17:02:31 but it's not fully functioning Mar 16 17:02:41 like front cam and so on Mar 16 17:03:00 and i don't think nokia will spent money on it's development anymore =( Mar 16 17:03:14 erm.. Mar 16 17:03:14 :P Mar 16 17:03:16 is maemo totally open? Mar 16 17:03:19 no, never was Mar 16 17:03:20 I guess they don't not develop features I'm not interested in Mar 16 17:03:24 if you know what I mean Mar 16 17:03:58 ZogG: there's plenty of money getting spent in meego, maemo.org, and the PR releases for fremantle Mar 16 17:04:07 i'm just curious how hard is it to get specifications or all drivers of n900 to make your own os Mar 16 17:04:23 depends, are you ideological or practical? Mar 16 17:04:26 Stskeeps, for now Mar 16 17:04:27 (those two often conflict) Mar 16 17:04:40 if you're practical, it's entirely possible to run your own os Mar 16 17:05:08 i mean, check http://blip.tv/file/3209258 Mar 16 17:05:18 Stskeeps, i'm not that good in these but thinking to port gentoo Mar 16 17:05:29 you can join the other guys :P Mar 16 17:05:35 luke-jr and slonopotamus on n8x0 Mar 16 17:05:49 as you can use already existing kernel and all the stuff Mar 16 17:05:53 right Mar 16 17:06:06 source based linux developing is much easier imho Mar 16 17:06:15 GeneralAntilles: should find the conflicts with apt... I try Mar 16 17:06:21 until you try to build qt natively, yes Mar 16 17:06:21 :P Mar 16 17:06:34 Stskeeps, wearing a hoodie at home? ;) Mar 16 17:06:43 ZogG: gentoo on n900 is rather pointless until you have open telephony. Mar 16 17:06:52 Sith Lord! Mar 16 17:06:58 TomaszD: mandatory wear for maemo.org masters Mar 16 17:07:03 slonopotamus: ofono? Mar 16 17:07:04 Or maybe apprentice Mar 16 17:07:06 oh, ok Mar 16 17:07:06 ;) Mar 16 17:07:15 * GAN900 bets on Quim being the master. Mar 16 17:07:16 TomaszD: the heating was absolutely shot that day Mar 16 17:07:30 Stskeeps, would ofono just work on mer? Mar 16 17:07:38 slonopotamus why so? Mar 16 17:07:45 anything's possible Mar 16 17:07:48 TomaszD: jebba had it working on fedora, but there's some small pieces we need to work on getting opened Mar 16 17:07:52 small utilities Mar 16 17:07:56 (which is entirely possible0 Mar 16 17:08:09 so it's possible to get a Merphone Mar 16 17:08:11 arachnist: does it include gui? Mar 16 17:08:14 brb Mar 16 17:09:02 ZogG: don't you want to be able to make calls? :) Mar 16 17:09:50 ~ping Mar 16 17:09:51 ~pong Mar 16 17:09:56 this is just for noobs isnt it, I had that maemo 5 package visible and it asked me to use the pc software, after an apt-get upgrade it disappeared... Mar 16 17:10:31 ZogG: you can get armv7 stage, unpack, chroot into it and have gentoo there :) Mar 16 17:10:58 slonopotamus and you can build all stuff to make calls as it's done in maemo Mar 16 17:11:26 as e.g. i use nvidia official drivers and they are closed Mar 16 17:11:32 anyway i have to run to uni Mar 16 17:11:38 ZogG: only open stuff Mar 16 17:12:10 ZogG: nvidia drivers do not link to loads of closed libs Mar 16 17:12:53 i need flash / js disabled, but easily individually enable per-onject Mar 16 17:13:57 pupnik: flashblock + smth unknown Mar 16 17:14:31 not working for microb here Mar 16 17:14:58 hmm... i saw flashblock in extras Mar 16 17:15:08 Good evening Mar 16 17:15:45 * ShadowJK uses the adblock-css thing, comes with flashblock Mar 16 17:16:26 i found out that the Eevil"something" named theme was making my N900 reboot automatically when I installed it... that's a bit odd Mar 16 17:17:19 DrGrov: don't install it then :/ Mar 16 17:19:16 slonopotamus: but it doesn't do that anymore :) Mar 16 17:19:36 slonopotamus: it might have been since it said that it would require a reboot... Mar 16 17:20:28 DrGrov: you could try to uninstall and install it again. maybe it'll reboot again then. Mar 16 17:21:00 actually there are easier ways to perform a reboot :/ Mar 16 17:21:25 slonopotamus: i don't really care if it reboots since i didn't have anything running. Mar 16 17:22:02 DrGrov: i'm totally lost... what's your question then? Mar 16 17:22:08 slonopotamus: i was just a bit scared of loosing contact information or settings but nothing lost. or can anything be lost when it does a forced reboot? or perhaps i rebooted manually without seeing the button? anyone else had this problem with that theme? Mar 16 17:25:34 DrGrov: reboot is unlikely to trigger data loss. pulling out battery is more dangerous :) Mar 16 17:35:44 Hi, is there any dbus signal emitted when the phone is rebooted? Mar 16 17:36:22 before or after? Mar 16 17:38:28 i gues before :) Mar 16 17:38:47 i still need to import my sms Mar 16 17:38:52 from my e51 Mar 16 17:38:53 mgedmin, I want my desktop widget to save some data before the reboot Mar 16 17:39:27 the unrealize event isn't called for the widget is the phone is rebooted Mar 16 17:39:30 any ideas? Mar 16 17:39:35 andrei1089, check with dbus-monitor Mar 16 17:40:32 andrei1089: no idea about the sdk (yet), but you could catch sigterm Mar 16 17:40:41 andrei1089: and store info on sigterm Mar 16 17:40:56 usually there should first be a sigterm, and then later a sigkill Mar 16 17:41:20 andrei1089: dunno about dbus signals, but i'm sure there are upstart signals emitted Mar 16 17:41:48 andrei1089: i'd try leaving "initctl events > /somewhere" and reboot the device Mar 16 17:42:03 (using the UI) Mar 16 17:42:04 * corecode eyes arachnist Mar 16 17:42:08 corecode, all the widgets are running in the same process, I'm afraid some other problems may appear if I change some signals Mar 16 17:42:14 corecode: yes, i'm here Mar 16 17:42:23 arachnist: no webos? Mar 16 17:42:27 corecode: and i do have the n900, ever since it was available Mar 16 17:42:34 corecode: nope Mar 16 17:42:37 :) Mar 16 17:42:50 new webos update seemed to have helped with interactivity Mar 16 17:43:09 i'm not a fan of Palm hardware Mar 16 17:43:26 andrei1089: yea, that's nasty. Mar 16 17:43:34 really, all widgets run in one process? Mar 16 17:43:36 interesting. Mar 16 17:43:51 corecode, yes hildon-home Mar 16 17:44:16 does C have something like Python's atexit? Mar 16 17:44:30 sure does Mar 16 17:44:48 but a sigterm usually is deadly and won't run atexit hooks Mar 16 17:44:49 mgedmin, my widget is written in python Mar 16 17:44:50 didn't Python actually copy the design from the C function? Mar 16 17:44:55 mgedmin: it is called "atexit" :) Mar 16 17:44:59 andrei1089, sigterm isn't deadly, sigkill is Mar 16 17:45:22 sigterm is deadly if uncaught Mar 16 17:45:48 you mean by default sigterm will not call functions registered with atexit? Mar 16 17:46:07 if you don't ignore sigterm or have a signal handler, the process will die Mar 16 17:46:08 duh :( Mar 16 17:46:18 and not execute atexit hooks Mar 16 17:47:15 you'd have to catch sigterm and then call _exit(), but that doesn't run atexit, but you're not allowed to call exit(3) from a signal handler Mar 16 17:47:19 all a mess Mar 16 17:47:51 and hildon desktop widget api doesn't have any kind of termination callback? Mar 16 17:48:16 what sort of data do you want to save? Mar 16 17:49:15 if you close a widget the unrealize event is called Mar 16 17:50:08 I'm developing the pedometerwidget, now the current steps are lost if the phone is rebooted Mar 16 17:51:26 mgedmin, ^ Mar 16 17:51:37 whoa Mar 16 17:52:11 use sqlite, like firefox! fsync() on every step! overwhelm the flash write cycle limit in weeks! Mar 16 17:52:27 :D Mar 16 17:52:55 dunno, a periodic write of data, say every 60 seconds (if the data has changed), shouldn't consume too much battery power, should it? Mar 16 17:53:32 you're probably waking up more often than that to poll the accelerometer, no? Mar 16 17:55:07 yeah..I thought of this too. I'll probably do it this way.. but i'll try to see if atexit works Mar 16 17:55:10 mgedmin, thanks Mar 16 17:55:32 andrei1089, consider also things like crashes and running out of battery power -- I doubt hildon-desktop gets shut down cleanly in those cases Mar 16 17:55:49 and crashes happen, especially when you install a bunch of random 3rd-party widgets Mar 16 17:56:03 it would suck to lose a day's worth of data if some other widget crashed the desktop process Mar 16 17:57:25 mgedmin, then it would be safer to save the data every minute or so.. Mar 16 17:57:42 or every 50 steps Mar 16 17:57:57 or so Mar 16 17:58:02 every 1000 steps Mar 16 17:58:06 yeah.. Mar 16 17:58:07 :) Mar 16 17:59:59 http://ie.microsoft.com/testdrive/Default.html Mar 16 18:10:27 Stskeeps, interesting read (mer included) http://ebb.org/bkuhn/blog/2010/03/04/mobile.html Mar 16 18:11:39 'how to kill a project'? :P Mar 16 18:12:07 ;) Mar 16 18:13:51 slonopotamus_: ok, that is great news then. thank you for the information :) i was just a bit scared about losing contacts, settings and messages. Mar 16 18:14:04 TomaszD: good article Mar 16 18:14:48 slonopotamus: i recommend you to install that theme. it is stunning, it is a greyish theme with a beautiful yet elegant style. Mar 16 18:14:57 Stskeeps, indeed it is Mar 16 18:16:19 this would be rad to have on n900 http://www.google.com/mobile/goggles Mar 16 18:16:39 jebba: did you need ssc daemon on fedora too for ofono? Mar 16 18:17:02 the best thing to shut down the phone is to make sure that nothing is running in the background? Mar 16 18:17:19 TomaszD: that i do believe meego is the way to go is another thing.. even though things look murky atm Mar 16 18:20:13 Stskeeps: i could build ofono for fedora and run it. I could turn on the device and poll it's state and such. I couldnt make a call ever though. Mar 16 18:20:38 jebba: ok, ta Mar 16 18:20:39 i wasn't running anything non-free to use ofono there Mar 16 18:20:45 :nod: Mar 16 18:21:06 SMS doesn't work yet (neither under fedora nor maemo) Mar 16 18:21:19 could you file a bug for phonet-utils pretty please? Mar 16 18:21:26 Stskeeps, btw, I've heard you had a broken freerunner laying around? Mar 16 18:21:32 think it is a slam dunk case for openening Mar 16 18:21:40 a "please open up phonet-utils" bug? Mar 16 18:21:42 TomaszD: yes, broken usb connector Mar 16 18:21:45 jebba: yes Mar 16 18:22:13 ah, well, if you don't need the phone anymore, you know my address :P Mar 16 18:22:25 ok, what about battery? Is there one open there? Where's the authoritative list right now, if you have it handy? Mar 16 18:22:41 battey is in progress.. #9314 i think Mar 16 18:22:52 search for bme Mar 16 18:23:04 google for licensing change requests Mar 16 18:23:21 TomaszD: if you think you can fix it you can have it Mar 16 18:23:58 bug 9314 Mar 16 18:23:59 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9314 relicense BME Mar 16 18:25:12 BME? o_O Mar 16 18:25:19 oh Mar 16 18:25:20 Stskeeps: I would take any n900 in any condition for free Mar 16 18:25:54 I just used Zephyr HxM Mar 16 18:25:55 it's nice Mar 16 18:26:00 used it with eCoach Mar 16 18:27:01 have any of you seen smoku around? I'd like to thank him for PCSX Mar 16 18:27:59 smoku doesn't hang around here Mar 16 18:28:58 luke-jr, *sigh*, trickle charging a Li-Ion is insane. makes things go boom Mar 16 18:29:12 ShadowJK: o rly? Mar 16 18:29:24 ShadowJK: maybe I'd better stay away from the charging algos :) Mar 16 18:29:26 "lithium-ion is unable to absorb overcharge. A continuous trickle charge above 4.05V/cell would causes plating of metallic lithium that could lead to instabilities and compromise safety. Instead, a brief topping charge is provided to compensate for the small self-discharge the battery and its protective circuit consume. Depending on the battery, a topping charge may be repeated once every 20 days. Typically, the charge kicks in when the open terminal volt Mar 16 18:29:32 age drops to 4.05V/cell and turns off at a high 4.20V/cell. Mar 16 18:29:35 " Mar 16 18:29:52 gouverneur, we're talking about the freerunner, not the n900 :) Mar 16 18:30:21 ShadowJK: does that mean that I shouldn't be regularly recharging my n900 for hours? Mar 16 18:30:36 Should I do a quick recharge then unplug? Mar 16 18:30:43 ptl, you're missing context Mar 16 18:31:03 Nokia devices do not trickle-charge. Luke wanted to change bme so that they trickle charge. Mar 16 18:31:21 * ptl doesn't know what is trickle-charge and will google for it now Mar 16 18:31:39 ptl, trickle charge = keeping the battery constantly topped up Mar 16 18:33:11 luke-jr, so basically Li-Ion has "easier" charging rules/algorithm than, say, Nickel Metalhydride (nimh), but Li-Ion is very intolerant of deviations from it Mar 16 18:33:19 at the same level of self-discharging... just saw on wikipedia Mar 16 18:34:48 heya. yesterday, I've been offered a choice wether I want my N900 to switch to 3G automatically or not. I can't find this option anywhere in the settings, would anyone be so kind as to give me a clue where to look for it or do I have to switch off my wifi-network to trigger the popup again? ;-) Mar 16 18:37:28 luke-jr, overcharging causes plating of metallic lithium, and overdischarge causes copper shunts to form, which cause partial or total electric shorts. When you apply power across a short, it generates heat. There is a mechanical device connecting the battery to the battery terminals, that disconnects at a certain temperature. However, this doesn't work reliably when there's a localized short inside the battery that generates a very local thermal hotspot. Mar 16 18:37:34 It's like a spark that ignites it all, and Li-Ion goes into "thermal runaway" at pretty low temperatures.. Mar 16 18:37:42 alterego, Setup -> Phone, scroll down Mar 16 18:38:38 ShadowJK: I don't get what that has to do with trickle charging :p Mar 16 18:39:07 luke-jr, well you don't want metal inside the battery either ;-) Mar 16 18:39:21 But you said earlier you wanted to change battery low behaviour Mar 16 18:41:31 A batter goal would be to make bme handle old batteries better. As it is, when a battery is fully charged it assumes it has as much energy as the battery had as new. Then when it runs out (or comes to the battery low warning threshold), it comes as a total surprise to the meter (and the user).. Mar 16 18:41:36 better* Mar 16 18:44:21 what would be a good math package for the N900? Like an equation solver and plotter? Mar 16 18:46:37 Anyone know where to find news about Enlightenment 17 coming for Maemo? Mar 16 18:47:24 Would appreciate to find some information to see a timeline or something similar.. Mar 16 18:49:08 TomaszD: ok keep it... could get some 4 free already... for a reason... Mar 16 18:52:38 luke-jr, let's hope only lawyers read that bugzilla report ;) Mar 16 18:54:50 ShadowJK: don't see how it matters Mar 16 18:54:59 ShadowJK: at least with code, I can avoid modifying the algorithms Mar 16 18:57:02 Stskeeps: ah you see sivan's recent message to -devel. Perhaps have him do the phonet-* ticket ;)( Mar 16 18:57:24 his is a bit higher up in layers though Mar 16 18:58:10 there's a category in the package manager named "Program" Mar 16 18:58:21 what excactly does that one contains? Mar 16 18:58:59 do you have extras-testing or extras-devel active? Mar 16 18:59:06 isn't everything (except kernels, libs, etc) "programs" in repositories? Mar 16 18:59:07 yep Mar 16 18:59:47 I'd suspect your "Program" category goes away if you disabled extras-devel and extras-testing Mar 16 19:02:24 well, it doesn't really annoy me, just wonder why. :P Mar 16 19:16:28 i kind of like the NSA saving my words and clicks. it is a kind of immortality Mar 16 19:19:39 who of you said that under diablo the virtual package python-dev is available? Mar 16 19:19:41 https://garage.maemo.org/builder/diablo/canola-twitter-plugin_0.0.1+git47f3f06101e738c53061549ea5e48ed3efff49c6~ppa0~lucid1/i386.root.log.FAILED.txt Mar 16 19:24:16 ShadowJK: oh, thanks. (your completion misfired, so no highlight, hence the delay :) Mar 16 19:29:02 hello, how can i change the volume while using the webbrowser? Mar 16 19:29:25 will nokia keep n810 up to date by publishing a newer microb release for n810 ? Mar 16 19:30:19 for example, the release shipped with n900 backported to n810 ? Mar 16 19:30:37 n810 is already not supported Mar 16 19:30:42 thopiekar: for diablo compatibility , you should use : Build-Depends: python-dev|python2.5-dev ... Mar 16 19:30:57 kaie: not really likely, but mer^2 may bring something like it.. Mar 16 19:31:14 jep I should add that.. Mar 16 19:33:08 Stskeeps, what's mer^2 ? Mar 16 19:33:09 * thopiekar added now canola-twitter Mar 16 19:33:48 kaie: backport of fremantle to n8x0 Mar 16 19:33:49 thresh, "already not supported", did nokia say that? Mar 16 19:34:31 DocScrutinizer: http://www.daimi.au.dk/~cvm/20100316_003.jpg , http://www.daimi.au.dk/~cvm/20100316_002.jpg - fixable/not fixable with solder? Mar 16 19:34:50 mompls Mar 16 19:35:07 Everything is fixable with solder. Sometimes you have to use a large bar to club the problems over the head though. Mar 16 19:35:30 And yes, looks easily fixable Mar 16 19:35:41 Stskeeps: please join #openmoko :-) Mar 16 19:35:53 Stskeeps, its smt would be easier with a jet solder unit Mar 16 19:36:03 None of the pads have lifted off. Mar 16 19:36:04 DocScrutinizer: ok :P Mar 16 19:36:07 hangon - that's not Mar 16 19:36:08 oh Mar 16 19:36:14 yes, that's not a n900 Mar 16 19:36:14 :P Mar 16 19:36:20 That's no moon! Mar 16 19:37:32 Stskeeps: yes, but honestly I'd like to share this with other users on either #openmoko or #openmoko-cdevel Mar 16 19:37:42 DocScrutinizer: yes, of course Mar 16 19:39:26 maybe my thinking is unrealistic, but I'd have expected nokia to keep shipping updates of the primary software of an internet tablet (the browser) without requiring to wait for the community to backport newer OS releases Mar 16 19:40:00 Hi Mar 16 19:40:06 Does the n900 have a hard reset button? Mar 16 19:40:10 a 2 year support period seems too short Mar 16 19:40:24 kaie: the amazing thing is that the thing still works :P Mar 16 19:40:41 kaie, there are the first signs of community ssu happening :) Mar 16 19:40:45 oh Mar 16 19:40:53 yes, community ssu is actually working Mar 16 19:41:03 Stskeeps, why shouldn't it still work if I don't break it? Mar 16 19:42:09 Ev'ning, all Mar 16 19:42:20 kaie, open source, open community - as long as the trend to opening the code up continues you could theoretically still be getting updates in another 2 years Mar 16 19:42:25 kaie: check out mwkn.net Mar 16 19:42:57 Wizzup, no Mar 16 19:43:03 hi jaffa Mar 16 19:43:03 It's stuck on 25 load Mar 16 19:43:08 20:41pm up 3:41, 0 users, load average: 27.40, 24.81, 17.27 Mar 16 19:44:09 Stskeeps, do you expect the nwkn project will build latest microb for installing on n810 ? Mar 16 19:44:19 which clients keep having to signin uncloaked, then change Mar 16 19:44:29 like crashanddie and i believe timelesses does it too Mar 16 19:44:32 kaie: it's a news site Mar 16 19:44:32 :P Mar 16 19:46:21 actually that's a damn good question, leaving out the nwkn bit Mar 16 19:47:58 TomaszD: it should technically be possible but probably needs alignment with UI. Mar 16 19:48:28 that's what I was thinking Mar 16 19:49:22 kaie: Specifically http://www.mwkn.net/2010/11/front.html#front-1 is what Stskeeps was referring to, I think Mar 16 19:49:30 * Noobmonk3y_ waves Mar 16 19:50:35 thanks, I now understand what nwkn.net and community ssu is about. making it actually possible to produce community builds that can overwrite the builtin software (e.g. microb). Mar 16 19:51:00 hi kaie Mar 16 19:51:04 still, someone would need to do the work to actually backport microb-n900 to n810 Mar 16 19:51:39 microb isnt open source or? Mar 16 19:51:51 kaie: i think romaxa had a backport Mar 16 19:52:00 cehteh: microb is sadly useless Mar 16 19:52:06 because it's kinda like webkit Mar 16 19:52:10 w/o a front end, you have nothing Mar 16 19:52:22 engine's oss Mar 16 19:52:25 ui not so much Mar 16 19:52:36 the intention of the browser team was to open source the ui Mar 16 19:52:43 however management made life incredibly painful Mar 16 19:52:44 the engine is gecko .. but no xul, but custom gtk frontend Mar 16 19:52:53 in addition to the custom gtk frontend Mar 16 19:52:59 yeah Mar 16 19:53:06 there's a transport layer (neteal) which also was never opened Mar 16 19:53:15 timeless_mbp, it would be good to have that backport published, but I may be misunderstanding. I'm worried you say, the backport won't be sufficient, because the matching UI will be missing Mar 16 19:53:25 * slonopotamus wonders how much n800 screen replace costs Mar 16 19:53:53 prolly more than a used n800 on ebay Mar 16 19:54:06 kaie: we had to evolve eal and browser-ui as we evolved microb to add stuff Mar 16 19:54:13 which means an older browserui doesn't work Mar 16 19:54:32 * slonopotamus doesn't veleive in local snail-mail, so ebay is a no-no Mar 16 19:54:39 *b Mar 16 19:54:59 timeless_mbp, I see, thanks. which probably means, a full OS upgrade (fremantle backport) is the only likely chance to benefit from most recent microb code Mar 16 19:55:28 well Mar 16 19:55:33 it's fairly standalone Mar 16 19:55:39 we use very little platform stuff Mar 16 19:55:45 kaie: i'd better add ui tweaks to chromium than messed with microb. Mar 16 19:55:47 and we have ifdefs so we can build on diablo Mar 16 19:55:50 fremantle on n800 ... how much memory does it have? Mar 16 19:55:53 microb has its own engine now? O.o Mar 16 19:56:12 cehteh: 128m Mar 16 19:56:16 we just need someone who can get tablet-browser* and neteal opened Mar 16 19:56:29 well, or tried to rebuild it on diablo Mar 16 19:56:30 ah i thought 64 or even less ... 128 may barely work Mar 16 19:56:48 kaie: since chromium runs on n8x0 with reasonable speed and memory usage without any hacks. Mar 16 19:56:56 timeless_mbp: i can probably play around with building stuff in the fremantle sdk Mar 16 19:57:08 err Mar 16 19:57:09 diablo sdk Mar 16 19:57:14 chromium? Mar 16 19:57:19 is there a chromium port for maemo? Mar 16 19:57:37 fwiw, i'm watching #airmozilla right now, so this is a bad time for me :) Mar 16 19:57:58 timeless_mbp, you say it could be done, but you're forbidden to do it, because of non-coding decisions Mar 16 19:58:15 ptl: no hildonised one, however it shouldn't be hard to since chromium uses gtk. Mar 16 19:58:20 kaie: roughly Mar 16 19:58:27 Linux is awesome because I can buy a bluetooth keyboard, create a custom ordinary X11 keymap with the (dvorak) map I want, write a scipts that associates that keymap with the keyboard upon connection, install firefox, install the vimperator firefox addon and then finally surf in my phone identically in every way (except screensize) to how I surf an my desktop. Mar 16 19:58:28 forbidden isn't quite the right word Mar 16 19:58:32 the code is owned by nokia, not us Mar 16 19:58:34 'no resources' Mar 16 19:58:35 :P Mar 16 19:58:40 as such, we can't release it w/o approval from someone Mar 16 19:58:52 getting that approval generally requires a business case Mar 16 19:59:28 slonopotamus: but only maemo 4, right? Mar 16 19:59:57 I mean Mar 16 20:00:02 the existing one is not for maemo 5 Mar 16 20:00:16 timeless_mbp, ok, if you need a business case, tell the managers: If Nokia puts internet tablet hardware to end of life, by no longer updating the included internet browser software, I won't buy more internet devices from nokia, because I want a longer lifetime than 2 years. Mar 16 20:00:48 kaie: that case doesn't work well Mar 16 20:01:00 imagine we sold 5 770s Mar 16 20:01:06 imagine we sold 25 n800s Mar 16 20:01:11 imagine we sold 100 n810s Mar 16 20:01:17 imagine we sold 1000 n900s Mar 16 20:01:27 * ptl imagined all this Mar 16 20:01:29 losing 1% of our base from a smaller base Mar 16 20:01:54 is sadly entirely uninteresting to our bean-counters Mar 16 20:01:58 it may be a small total number, but you lose the trust of the early adaptors Mar 16 20:02:08 that may be of more interest to them Mar 16 20:02:15 look, i'm not saying i disagree w/ your opinion Mar 16 20:02:24 i am saying that we've internally raised this opinion Mar 16 20:02:28 and they don't give a **** Mar 16 20:02:28 yes, I totaly understand that you don't disagree :-) Mar 16 20:02:41 thanks for having tried! Mar 16 20:02:44 and sadly, from a bean-counting perspective, they aren't wrong Mar 16 20:02:51 you're giving the wrong argument Mar 16 20:02:55 better arguments include: Mar 16 20:02:58 1. lawsuits Mar 16 20:03:01 2. negative press Mar 16 20:03:05 3. negative word of mouth Mar 16 20:03:17 4. active boycotts Mar 16 20:03:32 5. throwing excrement at executives. Mar 16 20:03:38 — i'm not endorsing any of the above :) Mar 16 20:04:10 * microlith boggles as his N900 ceases responding to screen taps but continues to run Mar 16 20:05:28 the missing updates for n810 have already driven me to go path 4, I'm not going to buy an n900 unless I can see update support Mar 16 20:05:51 microlith: sshing in can be useful - see what top says Mar 16 20:06:39 SpeedEvil: can't do that at the moment, phone was on edge and not wifi Mar 16 20:06:49 seems to have gotten over it Mar 16 20:07:12 cpu-meter is also useful Mar 16 20:07:19 indeed Mar 16 20:07:22 the best case is by supporting and giving extremely POSITIVE reaction en-masse to the community ssu and by getting developers of current community n900 only apps to also backport their own titles Mar 16 20:07:26 and gain momentum that way Mar 16 20:07:28 at the time it was in the task switcher Mar 16 20:07:33 so the meter wasn't visible Mar 16 20:08:02 timeless_mbp, kaie ^^ Mar 16 20:08:40 offer backports to the open source components in our n900 - theres a lot of code in gitorious Mar 16 20:09:05 theres a lot that can be done without complaint and if you want to see something on your 8x0 then get involved Mar 16 20:10:22 lcuk, my point is simple, nokia still supports maemo, still supports microb. All I ask for is a software update of microb, which is the most important piece of software, and it's maintained by nokia, not by the community, so I expect action from nokia Mar 16 20:11:14 I don't think community momentum influences nokia's decision to backport microb or not Mar 16 20:11:29 kaie, timeless is correct in everything he has said, moving mountains just because of a few random irc comments gets us nowhere Mar 16 20:11:48 but if involvement in backporting is something because eeryone else is - then it becomes easier Mar 16 20:12:59 in the past there have been similar efforts for getting later oses onto older devices - mostly undertaken by the developers themselves Mar 16 20:13:05 the correct irc comments arew correctr Mar 16 20:13:11 the hacker editions Mar 16 20:14:39 kaie, getting mindshare into all the silent developers over there >>>>> and building momentum for it would be the only way and if those same developers all rolled up and said "actually we have with minimal changes managed to backport a,b,c,d,e,f,g,h,i,j" can we release it to the community Mar 16 20:14:46 it becomes a bit better Mar 16 20:16:33 lcuk, you're talking about a thing that might happen or not. Why should I wait longer and hope? I don't understand why this would be necessary. I can use most software on n810 fine. It seems to work fine in most areas. I like the fact that a lot of software is available. The community appears to work. Mar 16 20:16:44 It's just the primary software that doesn't get updates Mar 16 20:17:17 if romaxa was able to backport microb already, nokia should simply allow to get it completed and publish it, that's it Mar 16 20:17:33 how do you get it to users? Mar 16 20:17:43 lcuk: getting it to users is doable Mar 16 20:17:51 there are dozens of ways to break the apt seal Mar 16 20:18:01 the only obstacle is getting past lawyers Mar 16 20:18:04 i na sustainable way Mar 16 20:18:10 lcuk, I made a pidgin package once and made it available over http, and users found it, because usual maintainer was distracted Mar 16 20:18:18 (luckily pidgin is maintained again) Mar 16 20:18:33 getting it to users is trivial, you make a "backports" repository, job done Mar 16 20:18:45 * MohammadAG 's N900 screen makes a crackling sound Mar 16 20:18:46 lcuk, so I think these are 2 separate steps. get the software done, then find a way to distrubute. and I agree that the community ssu you mentioned is a good thing Mar 16 20:18:50 its being done - the first signs of community ssu are coming Mar 16 20:19:00 and we can populate it with more Mar 16 20:21:01 what does "community ssu" mean Mar 16 20:21:25 thopiekar: may I ask why did you upload python-central to diablo ? Mar 16 20:21:26 Vratha: Updates to the OS, via the same mechanism Nokia used, to upgrade OS-provided packages like modest Mar 16 20:21:42 ah, thanks Mar 16 20:21:51 lizardo: to build python-twitter Mar 16 20:22:17 lizardo: was that not a good idea? Mar 16 20:23:46 thopiekar: you could at least have checked in http://maemo.org/packages/view/python-central/ that the package is already in fremantle... Mar 16 20:25:23 thopiekar: so you could have reused the same packaging (and dropped the "ubuntu" suffix) ... usually it would be nice if you have dropped an e-mail to the pymaemo-developers mailing list :) Mar 16 20:26:06 mailto: ? Mar 16 20:27:48 thopiekar: it is a mailing list : https://garage.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/pymaemo-developers given that you touched a packaged already maintained by someone else (the PyMaemo team) it is polite to discuss there first before uploading the package... unfortunately the autobuilder does not check for "maintainership" Mar 16 20:28:18 ahh ok Mar 16 20:28:52 so what should I write there? sorry but I uploaded a package that you maintain on diablo? Mar 16 20:30:33 thopiekar: "I need package xyz on Diablo, but it is only on fremantle ... any problem if I upload it to diablo too?" Mar 16 20:31:01 lizardo: just happend :/ Mar 16 20:31:23 what'd you break now, thopiekar? Mar 16 20:31:24 :P Mar 16 20:31:33 thopiekar: yes, that is past now :) Mar 16 20:31:44 nothing :D Mar 16 20:32:05 just packaging plugins for canola and resolving it's deps.. Mar 16 20:32:23 thopiekar: the rule of thumb is : before attempting to upload package xyz to diablo, check if it not yet on fremantle, and kindly contact the current maintainer with regards to your plans to upload the package Mar 16 20:32:48 just a tip anyway :) Mar 16 20:34:35 ok Mar 16 20:34:51 god DAMN it, where is the BEL char in N900 xterm?? Mar 16 20:35:07 is there anyone of the pymaemo guys here.. don't wanna write the mail now ;) Mar 16 20:35:47 thopiekar: try #pymaemo ;) Mar 16 20:36:05 pupnik: ctrl-g? Mar 16 20:36:13 no bel Mar 16 20:36:33 Oh noes! Mar 16 20:36:39 Submit a bug. Mar 16 20:37:13 maybe i can fix.. stty -a is informative Mar 16 20:39:17 /msg SpeedEvil beep ... NOT! Mar 16 20:43:56 pupnik: console-beep isn't very common to work ootb in non-console (aka xterm) shells Mar 16 20:44:17 probably maemo-xterm simply doesn't support it Mar 16 20:44:26 speaking of which, doesn't the n900 have regular consoles? Mar 16 20:44:38 seen chvt Mar 16 20:45:15 really? it does? Mar 16 20:45:17 :D Mar 16 20:45:22 for sure it has at least *one* - via rs232 on debug testpoints under battery Mar 16 20:46:07 Or you could do console on BT-serial Mar 16 20:46:37 or on USB Mar 16 20:47:35 * DocScrutinizer checks out chvt :-P Mar 16 20:47:48 nah, it sez can't open console Mar 16 20:47:54 not that suprised Mar 16 20:48:24 wooohooo Mar 16 20:48:33 chvt 3 killed input :-P Mar 16 20:48:49 whoah, hang on. it hung Mar 16 20:48:57 let's see if I can recover via ssh :-D Mar 16 20:49:23 what tty is x on? it's not 7 Mar 16 20:49:48 1 or 2 Mar 16 20:50:10 2 indeed Mar 16 20:50:44 I guess the kernel has got framebuffer disabled Mar 16 20:50:50 yeah Mar 16 20:53:40 * Noobmonk3y_ feels refreshed Mar 16 20:54:17 maemo.org Bugday right now in #maemo-bugs . Feel free to join and say hello to the maemo.org Bugsquad. Mar 16 20:56:47 * shamus just found mclock and likes it but wishes that it had more features and liked not runign full screen better as when non fullscren lost of the text is clipped off screen Mar 16 20:57:45 would make a slick home screen aplet Mar 16 20:58:37 for a strange reason I had to switch to chvt 4,5,6,7,8 and then to 2. to revive it. switching between 1,2,3 only made screen go black for 2, but no input Mar 16 21:02:48 hmm I've had my N900 in my pocket today without any apps running, and without a data connection, but the battery drained just about as fast as it does when I have IM stuff up for an entire day. I am not connected to a wifi network, but it shows some bars to the right of the battery icon, would that mean the wifi adapter is turned on? Mar 16 21:03:13 how can I make sure that wifi is actually turned completely off, rather than being just disconnected from an access point? Mar 16 21:03:18 are they two little bars that vary in size? Mar 16 21:03:23 yes Mar 16 21:03:30 Funnyface: is *all* data turned off? I've read 3g uses a lot of juice Mar 16 21:03:32 cpu-applet? Mar 16 21:03:46 Funnyface, look at your i-net settings. I think it scans for wireless every * min by default Mar 16 21:04:03 "Internet connection: Not connected" Mar 16 21:04:15 no, in the config screen Mar 16 21:04:55 ah Mar 16 21:04:57 it's set to "never" :P Mar 16 21:05:33 and does it auto-connect to wifi? Mar 16 21:05:52 nope, it's set to "always ask" Mar 16 21:06:14 well, then you'll have no extra batt drainage from that one, ok Mar 16 21:06:20 could it be because I used the "wifieye" application? Mar 16 21:06:29 I dont know this app, sorry Mar 16 21:06:37 Funnyface: try turning off 3g for a day Mar 16 21:06:46 http://www.communities.gov.uk/publications/corporate/ordnancesurveyconsultation - random. For those in the UK. Ordnance survey consultation on opening up some of their data. Closes tomorrow. Mar 16 21:07:07 it's some app that displays wifi networks, their signal strength and which channels they are on Mar 16 21:07:23 I haven't run a 3G connection at all today Mar 16 21:07:28 alledgedly when it can't get a solid 3g connection it's constantly connecting and reconnecting Mar 16 21:07:53 or well, it sits there idle, not connected, just displaying the signal strength of 3G, but that's normal for all phones :P Mar 16 21:08:31 wifieye I would suspect to cause that sort of problem Mar 16 21:08:43 Or rather any wifi scanner, not uniquely that one Mar 16 21:09:08 nah, I think it automatically connects to 3g if available, even if there's no current data usage Mar 16 21:09:17 yep. I am suspecting that the wifi is turned on, while not being connected to an access point Mar 16 21:09:49 Funnyface: you can always issue an "ifconfig wlan0 down" to manually disable it Mar 16 21:10:03 as root, of course Mar 16 21:10:21 I'll try connecting to my access point, then disconnect to see if that solves the problem :P Mar 16 21:10:33 and I haven't bothered with root access yet Mar 16 21:10:43 just had this device for 4 days or so Mar 16 21:11:15 yeah - took me a while too. Mar 16 21:11:26 It was a good 10 minutes for me. Mar 16 21:11:51 yes I checked some web page explaining how to do it, seems easy, just haven't bothered yet :P Mar 16 21:11:59 ? Mar 16 21:12:20 there's a package called "rootsh", you just install it and run the command "root" in xterm Mar 16 21:12:36 we are talking about the n900, right? Mar 16 21:12:39 yes Mar 16 21:12:56 well I guess I can go ahead and do it right away Mar 16 21:13:04 well then, you only need to install that one package, iirc it's in extras Mar 16 21:16:06 I can use http://maemo.org/api_refs/4.0/libconic/coniciap_8h.html to find out if my current connection is wifi or not Mar 16 21:16:19 but how do I check to see if I am "roaming" or not? Mar 16 21:16:52 mfinkle: do you mean connected via gsm/3g? Mar 16 21:17:27 Arkenklo: yes, connected via gsm, but roaming outside my provider (so I get charged a lot more) Mar 16 21:17:39 mfinkle: oh, no idea Mar 16 21:21:56 ] Mar 16 21:23:08 oh well, my sorry adhoc network is acting shit today, so no rootsh today.. :\ Mar 16 21:23:40 adhoc + vista ICS doesn't work well.. Mar 16 21:24:16 byebye wifieye Mar 16 21:26:13 btw: 28h now, *with* wifi, SIP, and email poll -- lshall says bat is at 44% Mar 16 21:26:46 and black screen right Mar 16 21:26:56 hi all.. is it easy / possible to get a n900 with a quertz keyboard in germany? Mar 16 21:27:01 most of the time - yes of course Mar 16 21:27:16 tools: that is all you get afaik Mar 16 21:27:33 ah - cool :-) Mar 16 21:27:45 tools: get one with a US qwetry and we'll swap and you get 50 bucks on top Mar 16 21:28:18 poor DocScrutinizer Mar 16 21:28:23 ouch - sorry - wrong way put Mar 16 21:28:40 I actuall _do_ want one with a qwerty keyboard Mar 16 21:29:08 poor tools Mar 16 21:29:23 can he order from .uk? Mar 16 21:29:36 prolly he could Mar 16 21:29:36 technically yes - but Mar 16 21:30:04 actually my employer will get it and they prefer to buy from big, reputable german stores... Mar 16 21:30:05 * pupnik sauft frankfurter appelwoi Mar 16 21:30:17 ifconfig wlan0 down, it disconnected me from the access point, but the bars are still displaying.. Mar 16 21:30:19 grr Mar 16 21:30:43 which bars? Mar 16 21:31:05 anybody knows such a shop where the sell them with a qwerty keyboard? Mar 16 21:31:05 tell your employer you are the one who needs satisfactio here Mar 16 21:31:26 returns to nokia.uk are no problem Mar 16 21:31:29 I know and can - but don't want to push things too far.. Mar 16 21:31:32 the wifi signal strength bars (or at least that's what I think they are) Mar 16 21:31:59 * lupine_85 has a qwerty one Mar 16 21:32:11 tools: maybe we can join efforts to get qwerty keycaps replacement Mar 16 21:32:29 it's rather easy to replace Mar 16 21:32:34 you can get them from alternate for EUR 490,- afair - not sure what they cost in UK - but I would guess a lot more Mar 16 21:32:38 just not that easy to get Mar 16 21:32:46 DocScrutinizer: aha Mar 16 21:32:53 * tools is interested.. Mar 16 21:33:12 hey i was just in alternate store. bastards didny have one on display Mar 16 21:33:26 * pupnik will visit again Mar 16 21:33:34 pupnik: right - that's the other point Mar 16 21:33:55 alternate and some other bigger shops don't have them in stock atm Mar 16 21:34:14 demand is high? Mar 16 21:34:18 tools: www.klc.fi Mar 16 21:34:29 any big shop in germany which likely has them in stock atm? Mar 16 21:35:26 tools: £460 Mar 16 21:35:35 with the current rate of the £, that's not so bad Mar 16 21:35:49 tools: www.klc.fi/tuotteet/Nokia-Varaosat-N900 Mar 16 21:35:51 O2 in Ireland are selling it sim free for €440 Mar 16 21:36:40 grr Mar 16 21:36:46 http://www.klc.fi/fin/tuotteet/Nokia-Varaosat-N900 Mar 16 21:37:18 Wow. I think 'blocks' - is sponsored by screen protector makers Mar 16 21:37:47 DocScrutinizer: okay - the hard part is probably speaking finish or so :-) Mar 16 21:37:48 Hi all Mar 16 21:37:59 tools: yep Mar 16 21:38:11 N900 QWERTY KEYMAT ENGLISH 265740 14€ Mar 16 21:38:18 yup Mar 16 21:39:22 hey guys, who use Esbox to debug applications on N900 target? Mar 16 21:39:42 also N900 TOUCH WINDOW ASSY 2691V9 55€ :-) -- better than screen protector for 20€ Mar 16 21:40:19 DocScrutinizer: indeed. Now all it needs is for some clever person to come up with a SAW diamond-fronted variant :) Mar 16 21:40:34 hmm - won't order right now but will come back to you - or - in case you got news pm me Mar 16 21:40:40 DocScrutinizer: ^ Mar 16 21:40:54 k Mar 16 21:43:49 another question: when using the phone moderately (no gps, no wireless, no umts and let's say 30m of calls per day) - what battery life time do I get roughly? Mar 16 21:44:07 with all possible powersave modes in action? Mar 16 21:44:32 of cause also no movies / music, etc Mar 16 21:44:36 tools: about 3 days Mar 16 21:45:01 hmm - that's little.. any way to extend that? Mar 16 21:45:08 like in bigger battery Mar 16 21:45:15 Why not charge at night? Mar 16 21:46:03 possibly - but I don't like the idea of always having to care about the charger as soon as I leave the house for a (long) weekend Mar 16 21:46:14 yeah..or bought another battery for backup Mar 16 21:46:34 or just take a USB lead - if you're in range of computers. Mar 16 21:46:38 how much do they cost roughly and any idea if they are available in Germany? Mar 16 21:46:49 USB lead sounds good Mar 16 21:47:15 buy a 3rd battery! Mar 16 21:47:19 USB lead doesn't charge very fast - but it's done after ~3h even with the display on Mar 16 21:47:21 :) Mar 16 21:47:23 indeed I read somewhere that there is an asian battery manufacturer that will ship soon a battery for N900 of 2400 mAh :) Mar 16 21:47:47 that compared to the actual one is not so bad Mar 16 21:47:48 embedded, yeah, it'll make your N900 twice the size ;D Mar 16 21:47:59 you could beat someone up with it ! Mar 16 21:48:00 eheh :> Mar 16 21:48:04 but you'll have to use a headset because otherwise the phone may blow-up in your face :-) Mar 16 21:48:15 twice the weight Mar 16 21:48:31 tools, why not juggle around with 6 batteries Mar 16 21:48:33 if the n900 battery was twice as thick, the whole thing would be same size as my old phone (which lasted for 4 days on a 1250mah battery) Mar 16 21:48:34 ? Mar 16 21:49:14 I managed to kill the N95 8GB's battery in 25 minutes Mar 16 21:49:15 =} Mar 16 21:49:44 Arif_: axe or hammer? :D Mar 16 21:49:49 Arif_: did you use it to boil a cup of tea? :-) Mar 16 21:49:53 coreplayer Mar 16 21:49:59 :P Mar 16 21:50:10 I was streaming radio over 3G with equalizer on Mar 16 21:50:25 that eq does some mad things to the phone :D Mar 16 21:50:36 could someone test the twitter plugin at diablo? Mar 16 21:51:24 thopiekar, about python-gobject, no we won't put it in diablo because it's already there, but as python2.5-gobject Mar 16 21:51:39 so, you'll need to change the dependencies Mar 16 21:52:00 ahh ok lmoura Mar 16 21:52:05 thanks Mar 16 21:52:11 * Arif_ sneezes Mar 16 21:52:17 thopiekar, all pymaemo packages in diablo starts with python2.5 Mar 16 21:52:23 due to the old packaging scheme Mar 16 21:52:30 I let my phone fly through half the bus today Mar 16 21:52:31 :( Mar 16 21:52:42 k Mar 16 21:53:15 Arif_: I hope you did forget to run the game before ! Mar 16 21:53:36 Good evening, I have an n900 and I'm having a little problem with incoming calls. Say I have an incoming call from contact X, and this contact X has a registered home phone number and a registered mobile phone number. The 'incoming call' screen does not let me know where this contact X is calling from (no icon for home phone/mobile phone or phone number are shown). Is there any known way that can help me with this issue? Mar 16 21:53:36 :P Mar 16 21:53:48 good thing someone caught it Mar 16 21:54:07 so could someone test the plugin and give some feedback tomorrow at #canola? thank.. I have to leave again.. Mar 16 21:54:36 see ya Mar 16 21:55:24 moudmen: you could duplicate the contact if you really need to make a distinction between the two call numbers perhaps Mar 16 21:55:46 yes this is the only way i have found to solve this, but it's pretty unprofessional and annoying Mar 16 21:55:48 name other Name (Gsm) and other Name (Home) and put numbers accordingly Mar 16 21:55:52 yup, true Mar 16 21:55:58 yeah unpractical Mar 16 21:56:06 but thats what you get for buying N900 Mar 16 21:56:10 :> Mar 16 21:56:18 a whole lotta unpractical. Mar 16 21:56:26 i haven't done this in 9 years ever since contact cards didn't support more than 1 phone number Mar 16 21:56:46 i still have my nokia ringo somewhere Mar 16 21:56:53 could only store 9 numbers there Mar 16 21:57:02 haha Mar 16 21:57:11 and it had 3 ringtones! Mar 16 21:57:23 and and, it made phantom calls without gui lighting up, even with keypad locked Mar 16 21:57:41 got busted for drinking when underaage due that, called my sister and she ratted me out to parents :p Mar 16 21:57:47 i still have my old ericsson, somewhere too, forgot what model it was but it's a tank Mar 16 21:57:53 yaay yaaaay. javis ported picodrive! Mar 16 21:57:54 hehe Mar 16 21:58:08 fell from the 3rd floor down to the streets, and just a tiny scratch Mar 16 21:58:34 hahahaha, phantom calls? Mar 16 21:58:39 never heard of these Mar 16 21:59:04 it just decided to randomly open a connection to any of the 9 contacts stored Mar 16 21:59:07 at it's own whim Mar 16 21:59:14 lol Mar 16 21:59:19 couldn't see it was calling Mar 16 21:59:21 no indication Mar 16 21:59:22 afk Mar 16 21:59:28 just suddenlly hear a person starting to talk Mar 16 21:59:38 if the phone was near you on a table or something Mar 16 21:59:48 tools: shipping is cheap in klc.fi, and there's no minimum order value. So I'll go ordering a keymat and 2 stylii right now Mar 16 21:59:51 well, you can still do that, with n95 8gb, just without calling... you'll only get to the contacts when keypad is locked Mar 16 21:59:54 that's pretty weird too Mar 16 22:00:51 any news about meego on n900? Mar 16 22:00:55 * Noobmonk3y_ is off home. ciaooooooooo Mar 16 22:01:10 what about mer on n900? Mar 16 22:01:23 ermm, http://meego.com/, homescreen, n900 is there Mar 16 22:01:29 homepage* Mar 16 22:01:38 Mousey I didn't like it Mar 16 22:01:46 Pic is unrelated Mar 16 22:02:01 what a tease Mar 16 22:02:08 lollercaust Mar 16 22:03:13 nice Mar 16 22:04:06 * lbt looks at Imad's "Repository Working Group" email... Mar 16 22:11:28 lbt: Much in that thread was... interesting in terms of impedance mismatch. Mar 16 22:11:39 *nod* Mar 16 22:11:55 I almost don't know where to start Mar 16 22:12:16 * lbt idly wonders how security updates are managed Mar 16 22:12:26 not that maemo ever did AFAIK Mar 16 22:15:11 moomo has security? Mar 16 22:16:39 Arif_: no idea, I do however know that _maemo_ is inherently secure Mar 16 22:17:41 Arif_: the justified ancients of moomo? Mar 16 22:20:17 =} Mar 16 22:20:58 you can reset the security code with a program, that doesn't sound like a secure OS to me... Mar 16 22:20:59 wtf is a security update? Mar 16 22:21:19 an update that fixes a security leak? Mar 16 22:21:37 Arif_: ? Mar 16 22:21:46 like in kernel vulnerability? Mar 16 22:21:50 the 5 digit code Mar 16 22:21:54 standard 12345 Mar 16 22:22:02 DocScrutinizer: http://lwn.net/Articles/378794/#Comments Mar 16 22:22:05 there was an app on the forums that could reset it :P Mar 16 22:22:45 Arif_: that has about as much relevance to "security" as a yale lock ;) Mar 16 22:23:12 Arif_: Physical access => all bets are off. Mar 16 22:23:34 hmm, yes. In which way are those different to a normal update of any component of the system whichever? Mar 16 22:23:41 FFS, artbitrary code execution in tar. Mar 16 22:23:59 LOL Mar 16 22:24:00 DocScrutinizer: Security updates don't introduce new features and are generally considered a priority. Mar 16 22:24:21 DocScrutinizer: In practice, they're just like any other update, but just treated more importantly. Mar 16 22:24:30 so they need to be *slightly* more frequent than an SSU Mar 16 22:24:45 well, that doesn't qualify them for a special management Mar 16 22:24:51 ? Mar 16 22:24:55 of course it does Mar 16 22:24:59 with most well managed software it does Mar 16 22:25:41 almost all well-developed software has seperate update tracks for security/serious bugfixes to functionality improvements Mar 16 22:25:43 you're thinking of a 'patchday' or what? Mar 16 22:27:03 did extras-devel move? it's returning 404 Mar 16 22:27:14 DocScrutinizer: no, I'm thinking of something sane like Debian and Redhat's security update policies Mar 16 22:27:17 or is this about development management, not about actual deployment of the updates? Mar 16 22:27:30 both Mar 16 22:27:39 this is a 'consumer' device (atm) Mar 16 22:27:51 I would assume the former, I joined this conversation halfway through though :> Mar 16 22:27:54 so there's no corporate IT to manage deployment Mar 16 22:28:13 hmm I see Mar 16 22:28:33 presumably more the management of release timelines, rather than the physical process of releasing the updates though? Mar 16 22:29:03 deployment isn't the problem. With some HAM alike app checking frequently for updates available Mar 16 22:29:05 well, the point is more that I doubt it has more than flashed across anyone's mind :) Mar 16 22:29:20 and it should be in the repo WG agenda Mar 16 22:29:40 deciding on which patches are deployed by whom is Mar 16 22:29:53 it's just making them available to HAM more regularly than during infrequent major updates that'd be nice Mar 16 22:30:16 5Crunning my app exposes the whole system to a remote root-level vulnerability explotiitable over the Internet" Mar 16 22:31:17 hehe Mar 16 22:32:17 * lbt looks at Jaffa's keyboard and assumes it's an apple with a virus... Mar 16 22:45:50 random quote of the day: "Excellent. I'm off to buy a Rambo knife and a frisbee" Mar 16 22:50:05 lcuk, just checked healthcheck - it was dead on two weeks :D (From first to last version) :D quite chuffed! hehe Mar 16 22:50:21 ja vis pe dro! Mar 16 22:50:22 ja vis pe dro! Mar 16 22:50:26 wooooooooooooooooooooooo Mar 16 22:50:31 :D Mar 16 22:50:45 * pupnik cues fiesta music Mar 16 22:55:15 noobmonk3y great news Mar 16 22:55:45 :D - going away over easter, which technically means more time to develop with no gf bugging me lol Mar 16 22:55:50 sjgadsby is a big, fat bastard. Mar 16 22:55:58 GeneralAntilles - yes.... yes he is...... Mar 16 22:56:07 no hes not GeneralAntilles Mar 16 22:56:10 lol Mar 16 22:56:16 hes an outstanding contributor Mar 16 22:56:20 lcuk - trust you to be mr babysitter Mar 16 22:56:28 :D Mar 16 22:56:54 lcuk, Big. Fat. Bastard. Mar 16 22:57:01 on what grounds :D Mar 16 22:57:18 See maemo-community Mar 16 22:57:28 i saw Mar 16 22:57:34 i dont see a problem Mar 16 22:57:44 unless he mailed again in last 2 mins Mar 16 22:58:13 GeneralAntilles, i just did the same thing Mar 16 22:58:15 oh wow? Mar 16 22:58:22 that's a lot of binaries from nokia Mar 16 22:58:28 (installing the sdk right now) Mar 16 22:58:48 lcuk, yeah, at least you have a reasonable sounding excuse, though. Mar 16 22:58:48 ooo i need to join this mailing list Mar 16 22:58:52 sounds like juicy gossip Mar 16 22:59:20 lol @ escuse Mar 16 22:59:23 excuse Mar 16 22:59:33 how come so much is binary? Mar 16 22:59:40 i had written my nomination mail Mar 16 22:59:49 corecode, i dont know which bits you are refering Mar 16 22:59:59 lcuk: Did you have a tearful acceptance speech planned? Mar 16 23:00:03 nokia-apps - Meta package for non-free Maemo SDK packages. Mar 16 23:00:05 but downloading scratchbox usually results in binary debs Mar 16 23:00:29 scratchbox told me to add the nokia binary repo Mar 16 23:00:35 SpeedEvil, was gonna thank my mum and everything :'( Mar 16 23:00:49 ffs why do we do things the hardway... there isn't even a simple join button on the mailing list page Mar 16 23:01:01 am i going mad? http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.comp.handhelds.maemo.community Mar 16 23:01:03 ? noob Mar 16 23:01:06 im sure there is Mar 16 23:01:31 would be nice to see JOIN in big bold letters, i like doing things quickly :P Mar 16 23:01:43 ahhh right Mar 16 23:01:51 theres a page for python developers somewhere Mar 16 23:01:58 lol... 1 at a time Mar 16 23:01:59 :p Mar 16 23:02:03 all i want is to join the list Mar 16 23:02:04 balls Mar 16 23:02:07 crap Mar 16 23:02:09 the wiki has a million links Mar 16 23:02:18 and this one takes me to a page with no join button lol Mar 16 23:02:26 i was making a rollup and stopped to type that Mar 16 23:02:36 now i have paper and baccy everywhere cos i laughed Mar 16 23:02:46 hmmm - i feel like i winge alot, but why oh why oh why can't people make / or use user friendly systems Mar 16 23:02:50 hahaha! Mar 16 23:03:11 https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-community Mar 16 23:04:08 hmmm my other bug-bear Mar 16 23:04:14 when they display language options as English (USA) Mar 16 23:04:27 noobmonk3y, pretty bog standard goddamn mailing list interface. Mar 16 23:04:32 its either that american's dont know they speak English...... or that they need confirmation? lol Mar 16 23:04:38 GeneralAntilles - probably is :D Mar 16 23:04:46 noobmonk3y, en_US is not the same thing as en_GB . . . Mar 16 23:04:48 or en_AU Mar 16 23:04:53 but never probably joined them because they just arnt me friendly :D Mar 16 23:05:02 or en_CA Mar 16 23:05:03 oh now thats just geeky! Mar 16 23:05:09 Not really. Mar 16 23:05:41 english.... is english the rest are just bastardisations :D Mar 16 23:06:05 en_ZA Mar 16 23:06:08 rm -rf en_GB with great prejudice. Mar 16 23:06:18 But reality, unfortunately, does not bend to my will. Mar 16 23:06:21 * noobmonk3y is having second thoughts......... will i have to listen to GeneralAntilles prattle on on this mailing list? ;) Mar 16 23:06:46 now that is geeky, but with my very limited linuxyness, rt or rm = format? ish? Mar 16 23:07:29 oooo interesting choice..... Mar 16 23:07:29 Would you like to receive list mail batched in a daily digest? Mar 16 23:07:35 does that mean i get 1 a day? Mar 16 23:07:35 burning polyester on your skin makes a melted mess Mar 16 23:07:39 or i get all, then 1 big one? Mar 16 23:07:44 lol pupnik Mar 16 23:08:28 what are you talkin about Mar 16 23:08:36 the mailing list Mar 16 23:08:55 having to go through the linux geek test to get onto it ;) :D Mar 16 23:09:18 * lcuk plays wiv code for a bit Mar 16 23:09:22 ooooo :) Mar 16 23:50:09 nite all, sweet dreams Mar 16 23:52:27 on my n900... what do I use to record video? Mar 16 23:52:31 from the camera? Mar 16 23:52:59 the camera app? Mar 16 23:53:07 camera app. there's a button. Mar 16 23:53:28 click the 'A' - on the camera app Mar 16 23:53:34 then click 'automatic video' Mar 16 23:53:36 not the landscape? Mar 16 23:53:39 Completely intuitive. Mar 16 23:53:39 ah right Mar 16 23:54:10 i don't see an A Mar 16 23:54:14 "Nokia: We poison your community so you don't have to!" Mar 16 23:54:14 on the camera app Mar 16 23:54:22 top icon on the right hand side Mar 16 23:54:39 with the camer ui - it opens a menu to select the mode Mar 16 23:54:39 ah Mar 16 23:54:43 mine was the running man Mar 16 23:54:44 :-P Mar 16 23:54:52 cuz it was set on "action mode" Mar 16 23:55:02 * josephnexus thinks that makes it sound quite exciting Mar 16 23:55:14 you da man Mar 16 23:56:48 thanks for the help Mar 16 23:56:56 everything seems to be working great on this phone Mar 16 23:57:00 IMAP has been lovely Mar 16 23:57:10 now, if only I had a way of syncing my contacts Mar 16 23:58:52 what phone Mar 16 23:59:07 phone/computer Mar 16 23:59:11 the n900 from nokia Mar 16 23:59:17 anyways... thanks again everyone Mar 16 23:59:18 take care! Mar 17 00:09:07 re Hi all Mar 17 00:14:54 doods Mar 17 00:14:58 I have extras-devel Mar 17 00:15:01 but I don't see picodrive Mar 17 00:15:04 am I losing my mind Mar 17 00:15:12 or did I just eat too many eggs this morning Mar 17 00:15:58 I never saw picodrive in HAM and I have extras-devel Mar 17 00:16:08 then again I never looked for it Mar 17 00:16:25 01:15 < IranianDoctor> I don't want this ugly food Mar 17 00:16:29 maybe it is not in user category therefore it only installable from apt-get? Mar 17 00:27:13 what's this diablo repo? Mar 17 00:28:39 ah, 4.1 Mar 17 00:51:26 hey hey Mar 17 00:51:31 hi mikkov Mar 17 00:51:41 hey is Pupnik on? Mar 17 00:52:05 wake upnik pupnik Mar 17 00:53:00 huhu Mar 17 00:53:07 hi Texrat Mar 17 00:53:14 ha! Mar 17 00:53:20 man am I glad I caught you Mar 17 00:53:28 open a separate channel Mar 17 00:53:36 that is rare to hear Mar 17 00:53:39 dude Mar 17 00:53:45 I am always glad to catch you Mar 17 00:53:59 texr Mar 17 00:54:08 you're one of my buds... no Amsterdam pun intended Mar 17 00:54:17 #texr Mar 17 01:16:18 vote for javispedro! Mar 17 01:16:30 heh Mar 17 01:16:34 or else! Mar 17 01:17:03 there's now quite an interesting set of candidates Mar 17 01:17:23 agreed Mar 17 01:17:32 moo javispedro Mar 17 01:17:35 moo RST38h Mar 17 01:17:41 javis: where is the list btw? Mar 17 01:18:00 * javispedro looks up Mar 17 01:18:12 tmo link: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=569272&postcount=83 Mar 17 01:18:37 thanks Mar 17 01:18:45 somewhat outdated already, since GAN and attila77 accepted Mar 17 01:19:46 btw. the other day I noticed that the omap dispc scaler works on the n900. the system is using it for the camera app/media player and tv out. Mar 17 01:20:09 i wonder why we're not using it Mar 17 01:20:37 there's a free overlay and fb device as long as you don't use both tv out and media Mar 17 01:20:58 * javispedro should write some snes test some day Mar 17 01:21:11 but how does one use it? Mar 17 01:21:32 through some sysfs files, then /dev/fb* ioctls Mar 17 01:22:20 javis: any examples? =) Mar 17 01:22:25 the sysfs files are on /sys/devices/platform/omapdss Mar 17 01:22:30 bailing guys, later Mar 17 01:22:34 hehe Mar 17 01:22:37 cya Texrat Mar 17 01:23:00 RST38h: no code, I was just pondering that there must be a reason nobody is using nor has suggested it, ever... Mar 17 01:23:45 http://www.mjmwired.net/kernel/Documentation/arm/OMAP/DSS Mar 17 01:23:49 * RST38h salivates Mar 17 01:24:07 yeah, hehe Mar 17 01:24:21 btw if you want to see the scaler in action Mar 17 01:24:24 just open the camera app Mar 17 01:24:27 and as root Mar 17 01:24:43 echo 400,450 > /sys/devices/platform/omapdss/overlay1/output_size Mar 17 01:24:58 (it will halve the camera overlay width) Mar 17 01:25:40 maybe I should play with this. Mar 17 01:25:53 I have no time this week, so please do :) Mar 17 01:25:59 Already using the fb, this should be easy to add Mar 17 01:26:05 yep Mar 17 01:26:12 neither do I, flying back to Moscow on Thursday Mar 17 01:26:13 yaay picodrive! Mar 17 01:26:20 :) Mar 17 01:26:32 was it confusing? Mar 17 01:27:00 pupnik: yeah, I've been looking at the code. happy to see drnoksnes gui being used by three projects now =) Mar 17 01:27:37 pupnik: btw seen the above I was discussing? there IS a hw scaler in the n900, actually, THREE of them. Mar 17 01:27:38 pupnik: You finally decided to polish picodrive? =) Mar 17 01:28:04 javispedro, isnt the camera using yuv Mar 17 01:28:12 lcuk: yes, but it works with rgb surfaces too Mar 17 01:28:31 lcuk: I tried by redirecting the system fb to an scaled overlay, and it worked Mar 17 01:28:32 neato - so can the same work on the desktop Mar 17 01:28:40 yes, I tried that exactly Mar 17 01:28:52 thats a decent test then :) Mar 17 01:28:56 nice find Mar 17 01:29:01 it's longer to type on IRC ;) Mar 17 01:29:23 the interesting part is to create an extra fb and resize that instead of the whole desktop, Mar 17 01:29:27 and you get something very nice Mar 17 01:29:33 of course Mar 17 01:29:38 isnt that awesome? Mar 17 01:29:42 i am planting trees RST38h Mar 17 01:29:48 anyway, sleep for me \o Mar 17 01:29:52 gnite lcuk Mar 17 01:30:52 cu Mar 17 01:31:21 pupnik:better thing to do than a lot others... Mar 17 01:31:37 javispedro: I am not sure how you are supposed to create extra fbs Mar 17 01:32:19 RST38h: it's not actually creating an extra one (you have 3 already), but setting up for example the third one with a custom res Mar 17 01:32:32 there's a small cmd line utility for that even, fbctl iirc Mar 17 01:32:51 fbset Mar 17 01:32:51 dumb question... I want to run Maemo on my PC using QEMU, but Nokia wants me to enter my serial # to download and I don't have a device yet. Is it only licensed for Nx0 owners? Mar 17 01:33:09 mhm. 34h with wlan, SIP, pop3, plus 2h with UMTS and IRC, maybe 2h of screen bright. Bat down to 19% Mar 17 01:33:35 aah, plus a 15min call Mar 17 01:33:48 javispedro: a corollary appears to be the ability to have different lcd and tv displays Mar 17 01:34:14 RST38h: and, interesting too, to be able to control the tv out resolution (think snes on tv.... which currently sucks a bit) Mar 17 01:35:17 well the actual out resolution is hardcoded of course, but how the system scales the 800x480 surface to that res Mar 17 01:35:34 is not. Mar 17 01:35:59 javispedro: I have to try this Mar 17 01:36:20 javispedro: this is gonna be a huge boost in performance Mar 17 01:36:21 I suggest playing with how the "state" of the dispc varies when enabling the camera app, and the tvout Mar 17 01:36:38 javispedro: I can play with it when running the same vgba Mar 17 01:37:11 yeah, good idea Mar 17 01:37:27 you might want to build fbset from debian -- trivial Mar 17 01:37:45 (through all fbset does is ioctls, so no actual need though) Mar 17 01:37:54 * DocScrutinizer is more than happy with 36+h of bat live for that usage pattern Mar 17 01:38:03 ~hug N900 Mar 17 01:38:04 * infobot hugs N900 Mar 17 01:39:10 -sh: cannot create input_size: Permission denied Mar 17 01:39:14 root Mar 17 01:39:16 javispedro: sorry, did not work Mar 17 01:39:21 Yes, I am root Mar 17 01:39:24 it's output_size, not input Mar 17 01:39:31 input is just a a=r file Mar 17 01:40:06 -sh: cannot create /sys/devices/platform/omapdss/overlay0/input_size: Permission denied Mar 17 01:40:17 overlay1/output_size Mar 17 01:41:38 overlay0 can't be resized -- I think that's because it's the "base" one; the other two can. Mar 17 01:41:51 hax0rs, what you are doin there? Mar 17 01:41:51 whatever I write to overlay0/output_size, kills the picture until I set it back Mar 17 01:41:57 overlay1 is the camera Mar 17 01:42:04 RST38h: yep Mar 17 01:42:41 RST38h: if you want to resize the entire desktop, the way I did is: a) change fb0 to point to overlay1 b) resize overlay1 Mar 17 01:42:54 oh Mar 17 01:42:55 resizing the camera is much easier since it's already on overlay1 Mar 17 01:43:04 and how do I change the fb0? Mar 17 01:43:37 echo 1 > /sys/class/graphics/fb0/overlays Mar 17 01:44:15 wait, it's in use by fb1 Mar 17 01:44:33 echo "" > ....... fb1/overlays Mar 17 01:44:40 then echo 1 > .... fb0/overlays Mar 17 01:45:03 screen goes black.. Mar 17 01:45:26 freaky Mar 17 01:45:31 so echo 1 > /sys/devices/platform/omapdss/overlay1/enabled Mar 17 01:45:37 don't touch that red button! ;-P Mar 17 01:45:46 and the desktop appears :) Mar 17 01:46:00 at a weird resolution (scaler already doing its work) Mar 17 01:46:11 javispedro <== screwed things up really hard now Mar 17 01:46:24 maybe I should just open fb1 instead? Mar 17 01:47:06 the overlay0 is in front Mar 17 01:47:33 so you'll have to make a quick app to fill the screen with the transparent color Mar 17 01:47:42 (or disable it) Mar 17 01:47:50 (thus getting in the same situation as me hehe) Mar 17 01:48:08 re Mar 17 01:48:44 s/screen/fb0 Mar 17 01:49:01 is fb1 still in the 16bit rgb format? Mar 17 01:49:33 I think you can configure that (There has to be a way to set it up for yuv) Mar 17 01:49:41 yeah, it's like 5/6/5 what I get on TV Mar 17 01:50:36 s/TV/AV-composite out Mar 17 01:52:12 time to test if a reboot gets things back to normal Mar 17 01:52:47 well, if not you're in real trouble :-P Mar 17 01:53:09 I have ssh :) Mar 17 01:53:12 Would certainly make for a good virus payload in that case :) Mar 17 01:54:03 "send $XXX via western union to NNN if you want to get the 400 top lines of your n900's lcd back?" =) Mar 17 01:54:35 LOL Mar 17 01:54:45 nimrod? Mar 17 01:54:59 back to normal after reboot Mar 17 01:55:16 ... including camera app Mar 17 01:55:31 so you haven't managed to exploit N900's secret persistent storage Mar 17 01:55:57 I know, I know :) Mar 17 01:56:17 but you can never be too sure :) Mar 17 01:56:23 * RST38h sighs Mar 17 02:13:39 seems that the system doesn't use /dev/fb2 even when there are two xv apps active Mar 17 02:29:46 probably uses it for the front camera Mar 17 02:33:20 i imagined a laptop with flatscreen in 1988. i couldnt imagine a N900 Mar 17 02:49:17 nah, n900 alike gadget was my dream of 1975 Mar 17 02:50:37 maybe I'm totally strange, but I still prefer a Zaurus SL-5500 (or similar) form factor Mar 17 02:53:01 looks too 90s Mar 17 02:53:09 too practical :) Mar 17 02:54:05 pretty farsighted DocScrutinizer ! Mar 17 02:54:11 yeah, way to easy to hold or even type one-handed, or to control without looking Mar 17 02:54:51 of course, if you rounded it off and lopped off the d-pad and surrounding buttons you'd have something kind of like a palm pre Mar 17 02:55:10 I still really like devices with full-sized SD card slots though Mar 17 02:55:29 pupnik: I admit I only thought of a combination of a CB-walkietalkie with a PDA. There were not even LCDs back when Mar 17 02:55:44 at least no devent ones Mar 17 02:58:21 johnx: i am thinking of a device... ;) Mar 17 02:58:48 lol. the second ladybug walked up to drink some of the beer puddle **** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Mar 17 02:59:57 2010