**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Sat Mar 27 02:59:56 2010 Mar 27 03:01:30 is there a chance of someone developing a program like this one (math program) for the N900? ---> http://www.spacetime.us/pocketpc/ Mar 27 03:01:51 ...and don't tell me about recompiling xmaxima / macsyma... Mar 27 03:07:04 you need to recompile xmaxima / macsyma Mar 27 03:11:12 http://wiki.forum.nokia.com/index.php/How_to_get_accelerometer_data_of_N900_using_Qt Mar 27 03:11:44 found something even better, crashanddie Mar 27 03:11:46 kayali Mar 27 03:11:48 it's qt Mar 27 03:11:49 it's pythin Mar 27 03:11:52 *python Mar 27 03:12:05 this seems just the right app Mar 27 03:12:22 it is very much like spacetime. Mar 27 03:12:23 wow. Mar 27 03:12:59 I mean Mar 27 03:13:07 it uses maxima also Mar 27 03:13:23 but it has a simplified interface Mar 27 03:13:25 easy to port to mobile Mar 27 03:16:49 oh... it has been abandoned in 2007 Mar 27 04:47:50 are there any other channels on irc for umpc/mids running linux? Mar 27 04:48:21 other than #mer Mar 27 04:51:24 well I guess I'll join ##philosophy for the fun of it then, in the mean time that is Mar 27 05:30:59 GAN900, Ping Mar 27 05:31:15 Andrewfblack, pong. Mar 27 05:31:40 GAN900, just saw my minimalist theme wont be needed for meego Mar 27 05:31:52 mhm Mar 27 05:32:08 Andrewfblack, I just got the Morning Industries version of that lock for Insteon integration, by the way. Mar 27 05:32:19 Andrewfblack, just ignore him and do it anyway. Mar 27 05:32:22 is there somewhere a website showing screenshots of all available themes? Mar 27 05:32:40 GAN900, got it tonight? Mar 27 05:32:51 imo its a bit unfortunate that theme are just mixed with all other stuff in HAM Mar 27 05:33:33 Andrewfblack, like some random Intel guy has say Mar 27 05:33:57 GAN900, If Meego doesn't want a minimalist theme that is fine with me less work for me to do, btw is Reggie not running forums over there, who was that guy btw? Mar 27 05:33:58 Andrewfblack, day before yesterday Mar 27 05:34:07 Switching the whole house to Insteon Mar 27 05:34:10 Amazing Mar 27 05:34:37 Andrewfblack, Reggie's the one with say. Mar 27 05:34:56 One of the Intel infra people. Mar 27 05:35:19 Havn't looked at Insteon yet is it zwave? Mar 27 05:51:15 Andrewfblack, no, better Mar 27 05:51:19 Dual band Mar 27 05:51:26 RF and powerline Mar 27 05:51:37 More stuff available. Mar 27 05:52:06 GAN900, I might take a look at it. I havn't taken the time to install my door lock yet. Mar 27 06:07:56 well bed time for me. Later Mar 27 06:28:23 morning Mar 27 06:29:34 moorning Sts Mar 27 07:15:10 Hello ! Mar 27 07:15:49 I got a problem with ham ... can t uninstall MaStory ... required by PyGTKEditor Mar 27 07:16:01 there is no dep on it Mar 27 07:16:24 apt-get remove didn t have the same problem Mar 27 07:18:30 Khertan: You are foutu. Mar 27 07:18:57 Khertan: There is no survie possible, give up all espoir of reussite. Mar 27 07:32:32 crashanddie: i m not foutu ... but Hildon Application Manager is foutu Mar 27 07:33:07 can't wait till we switch to rpms Mar 27 07:33:08 :P Mar 27 07:35:28 lol ... Mar 27 07:35:35 will be worse Mar 27 07:36:26 as far as i can tell, hardly :P Mar 27 07:36:34 (i used debs before, now i kinda like rpms) Mar 27 07:37:28 how ? really ? as an user and a maintainer? Mar 27 07:37:50 both Mar 27 07:38:10 zypper helps insanity a lot Mar 27 07:39:54 look like a bit like apt-get for an usert Mar 27 07:39:56 look like a bit like apt-get for an user Mar 27 07:42:16 ok the problem is clearly ham ... mix depandancy between package Mar 27 07:42:48 ok will use only apt in cmd line now Mar 27 07:51:43 wheeeee DUN finally working with a patched up slirp! Mar 27 07:51:50 woo Mar 27 08:19:51 moroning Mar 27 08:25:58 evening thresh Mar 27 08:27:41 my name is ninto antok Mar 27 08:28:09 i'm a student interested to participate in gsoc 2010 Mar 27 08:28:28 is there anybody who can help me Mar 27 08:28:51 ask your questions :) Mar 27 08:29:30 i have an idea . where can i propose Mar 27 08:29:34 ? Mar 27 08:33:26 hi i cannot choose a differemt protocol than aim in pidgin are there alternatives so i can use msn on the n900? Mar 27 08:35:43 install the pecan msn plugin Mar 27 08:38:48 ? Mar 27 08:40:58 optimus_prime: wiki.maemo.org is a good start Mar 27 08:42:17 thank you. let me check out Mar 27 08:56:42 ptl: I am now ;) Mar 27 08:57:16 ptl: and for the next 14 or so hours, mostly Mar 27 09:02:35 hhmmmmmmmm Mar 27 09:03:06 at some point yesterday i saw a screen in hildon with a report "bug button" - looked like a pre-setup solution for bug reporting from an app? or was i imagining things? Mar 27 09:04:45 hildon extras maybe? Mar 27 09:05:55 thanks Stskeeps - yup! - HeAboutDialog Mar 27 09:06:56 pity the wiki page doesnt actually explain how to use them though :P Mar 27 09:13:17 meh Mar 27 09:16:25 all in c :( Mar 27 09:18:50 Mh. Could someone help me with fixing a bug in my app? It's the frontend to alarmd. Some guy posted an excellent problem report here: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=582996#post582996 Especially the lower part about syncevolution. The problem is: When someone wants to create a custom command for scheduling, it seems like I cannot just give it to libalarm in direct fashion, e.g.: 'action.command = echo "foo" >> /tmp/foo'. i ... Mar 27 09:18:56 ... tried this and it doesn't work, probably (my guess), because of the '>>'. So I thought, I'd wrap stuff in /bin/ash -c '', but this seems to work randomly for people, and randomly not. :| For example that dude in the post: If he puts his syncevolution command inside my GUI, it comes out like this in alarmd_queue.ini: "action0.exec_command: /bin/ash -c '/opt/syncevolution/sync.py --quiet goosync'" and it does NOT work. ... Mar 27 09:19:02 ... However, if he runs exactly this from the command line, it works. Mar 27 09:19:59 I just don't get what alarmd expects the exec_command parameter to be. For *some* commands, it works just putting them there, for *me*, they work if put int /bin/ash -c '', for *some* it works if that is changed to /bin/ash without the "-c", and for some commands, it works without any prefix -.- Mar 27 09:32:33 mh, the same dude found out that scripts shebanged with /bin/bash don't seem to work if bash is not installed. And I believed it was symlinked to ash >.> Mar 27 09:34:23 /bin/sh works at least. Mar 27 09:41:33 ping X-Fade Mar 27 09:46:50 ~seen vdvsx Mar 27 09:46:51 vdvsx <~Valerio@Maemo/community/council/VDVsx> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 2d 12h 16m 22s ago, saying: 'GeneralAntilles, ehehe, but everybody knows that you're a undercover Nokian :p'. Mar 27 10:06:05 tmo: "essential updates on 'realistic wish list': Firewall and Anti-Virus software (especially since maemo is open code?)." lmao..... Mar 27 10:10:11 mornin noobmonk3y \o konttori \o Mar 27 10:10:56 optimus_prime, it would be better to talk in here Mar 27 10:11:13 ya sure Mar 27 10:12:18 so you want to take part in gsoc, whats your trouble Mar 27 10:12:26 so i've discussed certain issues with nobmonk3y but i need to know how can i make it into gsoc Mar 27 10:12:58 i've an idea in mind how can i propose it Mar 27 10:12:59 ? Mar 27 10:14:01 well theres an ideas page for proposals on the gsoc wiki page, but talking about it here cant hurt either :) Mar 27 10:14:23 http://wiki.maemo.org/GSoC_2010 Mar 27 10:14:52 Morning, all Mar 27 10:15:20 mornin charles Mar 27 10:15:48 Optimus Prime: visit the gsoc wiki page, and click on the "Edit" option next to the difficulty level you believe your project belongs to. A page would open showing you an editable region where you'd notice the current projects are present. Have a look at it's structure, and based on the symmetry post your proposal Mar 27 10:17:03 thanks friend i'm on it Mar 27 10:17:22 how can i find a mentor then? Mar 27 10:18:24 well since nobody knows of your project or its merits no mentors have been assigned yet (the projects havent been chosen either Mar 27 10:18:26 That is something I'm not sure of myself. It's my first time at GSoC too. I believe the Maemo community people may search for one for you, or you can try to look around, see the current mentors, and search on this IRC as wel Mar 27 10:20:33 well that was helpful indeed Mar 27 10:21:16 i'm tryin to develop a multimedia application in mobiles Mar 27 10:22:42 anyone experienced with modest? Why it has the imap idle disabled even it lefts the tcp connection open? Mar 27 10:27:15 Shapeshifter: had a laugh on that ++ Mar 27 10:27:34 morning btw Mar 27 10:29:46 moin moin Mar 27 10:30:21 Shapeshifter: I am close to stop laughing on those people Mar 27 10:30:46 Shapeshifter: wo bist du denn her Mar 27 10:30:58 gouverneur: zürich ^^ Mar 27 10:31:27 ah da war ich eben erst, meine mutter und meine tante wohnen um zuri Mar 27 10:31:51 seedamm/dietikon Mar 27 10:32:00 mhhhm Mar 27 10:33:06 your name sounds familiar to me but more from rpg nwn as from knowing you Mar 27 10:33:46 well I'm not related to any rpg. Mar 27 10:34:12 also, my nick is not related to star trek, the dnb artist or werwolves. Mar 27 10:34:45 is an elite cleric class, you might be a dragon though Mar 27 10:35:18 ROAR Mar 27 10:35:22 hehe Mar 27 10:35:50 * Arif_ throws the 7 dragon balls at Shapeshifter Mar 27 10:36:43 Arif_: ouch, that hurts, stop throwing stuff at me ^^ Mar 27 10:36:48 I got an endlevel shapeshifter in nwn and sometime I would find it just useful in real life... a coward cleric running up at a crowded place and *puff* a 6m red dragon joins the fight Mar 27 10:36:57 * Shapeshifter grabs a pencil and throws it in Arif_ general direction Mar 27 10:37:08 I didn't wish for a pencil! Mar 27 10:37:09 ={ Mar 27 10:37:35 Arif_: you dont have to ask for it... Mar 27 10:37:53 the cartoon lied to me ;( Mar 27 10:38:52 ^^ Mar 27 10:41:16 * Arif_ wishes for a white DSi XL in yourope Mar 27 10:59:40 hey anybody there? Mar 27 11:00:15 depends Mar 27 11:00:30 optimus_prime: nope Mar 27 11:00:47 hehe Mar 27 11:01:01 wanna ask qstn Mar 27 11:01:05 ? Mar 27 11:09:03 optimus_prime: on IRC, you're usually supposed to just ask, not ask to ask, and wait for an answer a reasonable amount of time. Mar 27 11:09:25 optimus_prime: don't pm me, mate Mar 27 11:09:27 thanks Mar 27 11:10:18 what are the basic requirements for developing a video based application besides sdk Mar 27 11:10:20 ? Mar 27 11:10:41 optimus_prime: what do you mean by "video based"? like, playing videos? Mar 27 11:10:59 manipulaing it Mar 27 11:11:05 I'd say knowing/learning gstreamer is a good start regarding maemo. Mar 27 11:11:06 like reversing Mar 27 11:11:17 seems that updating the wallpaper with gconf only works if you change the filename Mar 27 11:11:22 selecting frames etc Mar 27 11:11:55 optimus_prime: gstreamer or ffmpeg Mar 27 11:11:57 which is silly Mar 27 11:12:16 thanks mate Mar 27 11:12:42 which is silly Mar 27 11:12:54 * Arif_ waits for coreplayer on Moomo 5... Mar 27 11:12:57 blame canada, blame canada Mar 27 11:13:06 * hd1 loves south park Mar 27 11:13:26 anybody have an idea how i can force a reload of the wallpaper? Mar 27 11:13:58 hd1, you should read a book! :D Mar 27 11:16:42 Arif_: nah, I'd rather blame Canada :) Mar 27 11:16:52 how can i install packages without apt/dpkg re-downlaoding them? they are all already on my system under ${scratchnox}/var/cache/apt/archives/ Mar 27 11:16:54 or write your own :( Mar 27 11:16:56 or something equally silly Mar 27 11:17:13 Arif_: write? I'm illeter8 Mar 27 11:17:25 and on irc? :p Mar 27 11:17:36 dan2003, apt-get install /where/is/my.file? Mar 27 11:18:02 Arif_: will that find dependancies in the same place? Mar 27 11:18:10 No idea ;D Mar 27 11:18:34 dan2003: dpkg -i /path/to/file Mar 27 11:18:50 depends on how the dpkg description file is configured Mar 27 11:19:06 * Arif_ should stop confusing commands.. Mar 27 11:19:06 ={ Mar 27 11:19:27 well, apt-get is just a wrapper around dpkg Mar 27 11:19:30 apt is stupid anyway. Mar 27 11:19:58 Shapeshifter: are you one of those "real men write their own bootloader" types? Mar 27 11:20:13 dpkg -i /var/cache/apt/archives/libqt4-maemo5-* seems to have doen the trick Mar 27 11:20:16 hd1: nope Mar 27 11:20:25 you can just poke the deb files with filemanager too Mar 27 11:20:26 ;o Mar 27 11:20:55 mooo Shapeshifter Mar 27 11:20:59 real men dont write their own bootloaders, they write the whole os on the fly. Mar 27 11:21:19 DocScrutinizer: moin Mar 27 11:21:26 in assembly Mar 27 11:21:37 bootstram from biological memeory Mar 27 11:21:42 Shapeshifter: heard the sad story from ptl ? Mar 27 11:21:44 and the normal user will leech off them? Mar 27 11:22:23 Arif_: if their task is ever completed, yes, that is what they hope anyway Mar 27 11:22:28 DocScrutinizer: no, what was it about? Mar 27 11:22:34 * DocScrutinizer notices a flashing yellow "!" Mar 27 11:22:45 opensource projects never get completed :p Mar 27 11:22:57 http://patola.org/ss.png Mar 27 11:23:00 I think he doesn't have hilighting enabled in his IRC client. he asked me twice while I was away and I replied but he didn't get the message apparently. Mar 27 11:23:12 Arif_: gcc seems pretty complete to me Mar 27 11:23:27 same with emacs Mar 27 11:23:35 DocScrutinizer: huh what on earth is that. the background of his text input field isn't white? Mar 27 11:23:38 * hd1 goes to bed Mar 27 11:23:57 pr1.2? Mar 27 11:24:35 DocScrutinizer: pr1.2? well that looks like some broken Qt. Mar 27 11:25:42 [2010-03-27 02:20:07] though I'd guess alarmed.py is using standard widgets which should be tested and working with all commonly used themes, no? [2010-03-27 02:21:40] it uses pyside. qt [2010-03-27 02:21:56] I've seen on the changelog of PR1.2 something about QT not getting the theme colors right Mar 27 11:26:20 DocScrutinizer: but why does he have pr1.2? is that an sdk shot? Mar 27 11:26:28 * Arif_ also got a yellow ! Mar 27 11:26:39 Shapeshifter: no idea Mar 27 11:27:07 oo Mar 27 11:27:11 DocScrutinizer: whatever it is, I doubt I can do something about it. it uses Qt, well pyside, yeah. But pyside gets a new and very fresh/different release soon to extras-devel anyway. Mar 27 11:27:12 picodrive and ukeyboard got updated Mar 27 11:27:30 DocScrutinizer: they already have released Shiboken, but not made a .deb yet for pyside-shiboken. Mar 27 11:27:58 k, im devleoping qt4.6 in sdk (with pr1.2 update) can i install 4.6 onto device alongside 4.5 or not? Mar 27 11:28:00 should come out in a few days. this way, alarmed will also lose the libboost dependencies and all that. Mar 27 11:28:35 ~nuke libboost Mar 27 11:28:36 * infobot prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at libboost ... B☢☢M! Mar 27 11:28:47 sorry, am developing an qt4.6 app , not qt itself Mar 27 11:28:57 I think it's either 4.5 or 4.6, not both. Mar 27 11:29:21 so we have to eait for pr1.2 device update b4 able to try on device ? :( Mar 27 11:29:37 dan2003, yes :D (or in sdk) Mar 27 11:29:39 as it just seg faults if i try to launcg on device atm Mar 27 11:29:47 yeah wokrs on desktop Mar 27 11:29:50 hm Mar 27 11:29:53 I can't update ukeyboard Mar 27 11:30:28 hildon-im-fkb (>=3.9.61-1) is missing Mar 27 11:32:15 update of simple-brightness-applet fails due to missing libhildon1(>=2.2.10) Mar 27 11:32:35 * DocScrutinizer will refrain from updating anything for a few days Mar 27 11:33:31 hi there Mar 27 11:33:38 at least I know there's a Turkish virtual keyboard for pr1.2 now....=D Mar 27 11:41:40 anyone know how many devices joikuspot can support? just curious.. Mar 27 11:43:51 * RST38h moos distractedly Mar 27 11:46:00 ech0dish, as much as the Wifi spec allows? (ad-hoc) Mar 27 11:46:57 lol Mar 27 11:47:01 * noobmonk3y w0000ps Mar 27 11:48:17 i dont understand why joikuspot doesn't support WPA Mar 27 11:48:38 it only has WEP... wtf thats just cheep Mar 27 11:49:28 it wants to support the Nintendo DS :P Mar 27 11:49:28 WPA would be probably much more difficult to implement and possibly more heavy on cpu? Mar 27 11:50:38 might as well make the password letmein if your going to use WEP... Mar 27 11:51:48 the N900 probably has a range of 10cm anyway Mar 27 11:52:08 has a good range Mar 27 11:52:21 i can go far, thats not issue Mar 27 11:52:42 how far is far? interested as i will be using it next wee k:D Mar 27 11:52:55 seems just as good as my d-link wireless g router Mar 27 11:53:03 i can use it anywhere in my apartment Mar 27 11:53:07 yay! Mar 27 11:53:14 * Arif_ is too cheap to buy joiku ={ Mar 27 11:53:20 lol Mar 27 11:53:24 tested in the bathroom Mar 27 11:53:39 you need internet in the bathroom? Mar 27 11:53:53 yeah with the n900 in the kitchen Mar 27 11:53:59 plugged in chargin on the counter Mar 27 11:54:01 wohooooooooooooooooooooooooo! Mar 27 11:54:02 worked great Mar 27 11:54:14 streamed perfect youtube vids Mar 27 11:54:14 healthcheck update stacked windows work!!! (extras-devel) Mar 27 11:54:19 thats better than I expected! Mar 27 11:54:41 noobmonk3y, yay! now you need to get people to use it! Mar 27 11:54:51 hehe 18,000+ downloads :| Mar 27 11:54:56 i have it Mar 27 11:55:11 used it to test the front cam Mar 27 11:55:16 cool :D :D Mar 27 11:55:18 that's pretty impressive for a platform that has 7 users :P Mar 27 11:55:24 will be updating that to front video soon too Mar 27 11:55:29 Arif_, lol! Mar 27 11:55:42 arif, can i pm u? Mar 27 11:55:46 8) - Louis walsh has one lol Mar 27 11:56:05 no need to ask... Mar 27 11:56:11 Hi, how much space will the easy debian take? Mar 27 11:56:19 hi Arif Mar 27 11:56:21 ~wink at Arif_ Mar 27 11:56:26 meh Mar 27 11:56:32 infobot doesnt love me no more Mar 27 11:57:00 ech0dish, is there anything else you would like to see in healthcheck? :D - other then better graphics lol Mar 27 11:57:10 ooo btw - thinking of doing a 3d test in it :D Mar 27 11:57:52 has healthcheck got a proper vibrate test yet>? :D Mar 27 11:57:55 LuciusMare, itll take about and exactly 2GB Mar 27 11:57:56 yup :D Mar 27 11:58:09 nidO, lets you select form some of the built in patterns Mar 27 11:58:21 from* Mar 27 11:58:35 nice Mar 27 11:58:37 well the devel version does Mar 27 11:58:45 got sound tests, led patterns too Mar 27 11:58:48 (File info for) H:\debian-m5-v3b.img.ext2 (Size) 2.00GB (Created) Wednesday, 24.03.2010 17:24:43 (Modified) Thursday, 25.02.2010 18:43:08 (Attributes) A Mar 27 11:58:50 okay, heres an ideas Mar 27 11:58:53 [2010-03-27 12:50:37] might as well make the password letmein if your going to use WEP... --- ech0dish, ad-hoc is basically just "letmein" Mar 27 11:58:58 and now just added the ascreen accuracy & keyboard test + dead pixel test :D Mar 27 11:59:10 maybe have healthcheck do a backup check, and warn you if you have no backup / a backup over say a month old Mar 27 11:59:19 oooo Mar 27 11:59:23 thats a clever idea :D Mar 27 11:59:33 assuming backups are all of the same file tpye? Mar 27 11:59:36 type? Mar 27 12:00:03 good question, checking Mar 27 12:00:06 :D Mar 27 12:00:11 * noobmonk3y brb's - shower Mar 27 12:01:35 noobmonk3y should include a healthcheck for the battery cell :-P Mar 27 12:03:27 * DocScrutinizer also wonders if healthcheck has a notion about the number of bad blocks on NAND Mar 27 12:05:35 okay backup files have no extension, but you cant specify a folder for them so the backups will always be in /home/user/MyDocs/backups or in /backups on the sd card Mar 27 12:06:42 also rather bizzarely... I cant access sshd on my device while it's charging, anyone seen that? :< Mar 27 12:07:38 DocScrutinizer, can you explain that a bit more? - mha etc? Mar 27 12:07:51 ahaaaaa cheers nidO Mar 27 12:15:54 * DocScrutinizer points to backup.metadata Mar 27 12:16:54 nidO: I'm doing this (access ssh while charging) all the time. No problems Mar 27 12:18:52 noobmonk3y: nidO: MyDocs/backups//(*.zip|backup.metadata) Mar 27 12:19:01 nidO: you sure you're not just trying the wron IP or something? Mar 27 12:24:40 noobmonk3y: I was halfway kidding. It's not simple task to check cell health. You could try to readout bq27200 values (see http://people.openmoko.org/joerg/battery/bq27k-detail for a few details on bq27xxx chip). You could check voltage drop during enabling a strong consumer (e.g. vibrator, gprs tx, toggle backlight on/off)... Mar 27 12:25:51 hmmmm not a bad idea though Mar 27 12:25:56 something i could work on :D Mar 27 12:27:21 impedence spectrometry Mar 27 12:27:36 backlight is a good candidate Mar 27 12:28:32 apply a superposed pwm sequence of 0.01,1,10hz Mar 27 12:29:01 synchronus demod of battery response Mar 27 12:29:21 SpeedEvil: that's what I thought, yes Mar 27 12:29:41 anybody here use mpd? Mar 27 12:30:11 (im making a clinet for n900) seen an exsiting onw, (cuteMPD) but inmy opinion its to "fiddly", makin gone with nice big easy to use buttons, Mar 27 12:32:09 mpd? Mar 27 12:33:08 mobilephonesdirect in my book lol Mar 27 12:34:18 * noobmonk3y is off, c'yall laters Mar 27 12:34:40 * Arif_ wants a DVBService client :P Mar 27 12:34:54 will PR1.2 break compatibility with older maemo versions? Mar 27 12:35:53 ukeyboard is already broken Mar 27 12:36:45 ukeyboard doesn't work yea Mar 27 12:36:54 but.. what's the problem? Mar 27 12:37:19 breaking compatibilities when the only new thing is some bug fixes and package updates... Mar 27 12:37:23 seems odd to me Mar 27 12:37:45 you can't install the new version on PR1.1.1 Mar 27 12:37:49 =} Mar 27 12:37:56 i know Mar 27 12:38:01 which is understandable Mar 27 12:38:07 as PR1.2 has a new virtual keyboard layout Mar 27 12:38:17 ah Mar 27 12:38:17 hm Mar 27 12:38:50 but that's not what i mean, i mean, why will the update make the old packages unusable? Mar 27 12:38:51 lets all boycot PR1.2 if apps don't work Mar 27 12:38:51 :P Mar 27 12:39:05 or have i done some major mis-understand? :d Mar 27 12:39:18 good point Mar 27 12:39:20 I guess older apps will work... Mar 27 12:39:30 go install the sdk and try :P Mar 27 12:39:46 yay, the packagelistupdate is done Mar 27 12:40:04 took only 5 minutes! Mar 27 12:40:13 yay! Mar 27 12:50:46 hm Mar 27 12:51:05 you know, the alt+f2 thing at linux desktop Mar 27 12:51:24 is that feature in hildon? Mar 27 12:51:50 what does that do? Mar 27 12:52:17 a text field on the screen Mar 27 12:52:26 type an application name will launch it Mar 27 12:52:43 apparently that feature will be in the menu Mar 27 12:52:47 in pr1.2 Mar 27 12:53:10 some of them also makes it possible to run bash commands, but that's not required for me Mar 27 12:53:10 ah, nice Mar 27 12:53:31 and fınally a way to rearrange ıcons! Mar 27 12:53:42 alphabeticallly=stupid :D Mar 27 12:58:06 any ideas how to update the wallpaper when the filename stays the same Mar 27 12:58:11 but the content changes? Mar 27 13:04:35 mpd = ,usic player daemon Mar 27 13:04:51 s\,usic\mysic Mar 27 13:04:54 grr Mar 27 13:05:15 * dan2003 sticks finger in over to defrost Mar 27 13:09:31 xD Mar 27 13:26:11 do you use pidgin? i cannot select a protocol different than aim Mar 27 13:26:26 jatt: msn works fine here Mar 27 13:26:53 8 Mar 27 13:26:59 i see Mar 27 13:28:23 i installed pidgin but for some reason the drop down with the protocols is not working properly Mar 27 13:30:02 did you restart the device? Mar 27 13:31:05 yes several times i tries with the stylus too but the drop down closes immediately Mar 27 13:31:42 so no chance to select msn from the list Mar 27 13:32:16 jatt: dont stop pressing before you have chosen the entry you want Mar 27 13:32:16 watchout with msn! its a discustingly bloated protocl, if yr on mobile data plan it could cost u a fortune Mar 27 13:32:38 is there something special i have to do to access the ovi store? Mar 27 13:33:27 i am using a flat rate and my gf only uses msn :) Mar 27 13:33:31 tells me to upgrade to maemo5 but i already have Mar 27 13:33:54 pr1.1.1 i think Mar 27 13:34:25 n900 arriving monday :( Mar 27 13:34:41 working today so won't care but tomorrow will be torture Mar 27 13:34:41 :(? Mar 27 13:34:44 ah Mar 27 13:35:15 * SpeedEvil is apperecoatong his n900 more since laptop broke. Mar 27 13:35:24 up to 30wpm now. Mar 27 13:35:27 grr i don't get this.. why does it think i don't have maemo5? Mar 27 13:35:37 any alternatives to pidgin for msn? Mar 27 13:35:47 use msn-pecan.. Mar 27 13:35:47 :P Mar 27 13:35:49 does anyone know if the source code for the maemo.org voting system is available? Mar 27 13:36:00 pecan eh, all I knew of was amsn, pidgin and haze Mar 27 13:37:07 is it in the official repos? will check Mar 27 13:37:16 jatt: it's somewhere, but it integrates Mar 27 13:38:30 when i was travelling in oz, used mobile phone for internet, was using msn to start with, but just be online used roughly a meg/hr, my contract n990 pay (uk vodafone) is "unlimited internet" which actually means 500 meg limit!!, so if i was online with msn for 10 hrs a day it would use most of that - and thats without even saying anything Mar 27 13:38:49 the other alternative for me would be emacs+bitlbee but I haven't have the guts to install emacs :) Mar 27 13:39:54 wow 1mb/hour while idle? Mar 27 13:39:59 I can ssh over adhoc, nice! Mar 27 13:41:19 jatt: yeah, and if yr one of these that has about 300 "freinds" on yr msn account, itll be more , i had about 15 Mar 27 13:42:12 i wanted to test skype but I'm also on a 200mb limit and I guess a skype call would reach that limit easily Mar 27 13:45:10 is there a way to check the firmware version Mar 27 14:06:03 Hi, no lisp for fremantle? Mar 27 14:07:31 no, we all use fortran here ;) Mar 27 14:07:57 :) Mar 27 14:07:57 dan2003: I don't Mar 27 14:07:59 Ada ftw Mar 27 14:08:08 seriously :) Mar 27 14:08:40 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=42339 Mar 27 14:09:30 great! Mar 27 14:09:37 * LuciusMare kisses dan2003 Mar 27 14:10:43 hi, is there a map app that can download maps for offline navigation ? Mar 27 14:10:56 ideally using openstreetmaps Mar 27 14:11:09 Maep can, but navigation is a wide term Mar 27 14:11:24 sorry was afk a while - DocScrutinizer + Shapeshifter - i'm fairly sure i've ssh'd to it plenty while charging before as well, but its just not playing now - while charging I get timeouts, unplug it and retry the connection, goes through immediately Mar 27 14:11:29 well to find how to get where you want :) Mar 27 14:11:50 i have osm2go but thats more for mapping out small areas from what i can tell Mar 27 14:11:53 i will try meap Mar 27 14:12:25 going on holiday soon, and want some maps of the area that i can use with out a net connection Mar 27 14:16:57 how does maep work for offline ? Mar 27 14:17:15 do i just need to view the area and then its available offline ? Mar 27 14:17:31 can not see an option to download in the app Mar 27 14:19:07 right Mar 27 14:26:16 will PR1.2 the last one? then it well be meego? Mar 27 14:26:24 will* Mar 27 14:29:47 probably the name will change, yes Mar 27 14:29:53 who knows Mar 27 14:30:18 what's *inside* is another question Mar 27 14:30:36 and i doubt they'll call maemo5 meego Mar 27 14:31:13 meego-0.5 maemo edition ? ;-P Mar 27 14:31:42 there's a pr1.3 (nokian said so at TMO) Mar 27 14:31:48 prolly more like meego-0.6 Mar 27 14:32:28 aah, then meego-0.5.1.3 maemo edition XP Mar 27 14:37:01 VDVsx, does a package with broken dependencies get deleted? I uploaded a package into extras-devel and set it to a wrong dependency (fixed it in 0.2-1) Mar 27 14:37:44 MohammadAG, not, afaik Mar 27 14:37:55 only if you upload a couple of new versions Mar 27 14:37:57 * Stskeeps installs sygic and likes it Mar 27 14:38:41 * VDVsx has free ovi maps and likes it :P Mar 27 14:39:06 VDVsx, already uploaded a couple :P Mar 27 14:39:07 * Stskeeps doesn't particularly like ovi maps Mar 27 14:39:08 :P Mar 27 14:39:18 (also, we're going to use this in our car with voice navigation) Mar 27 14:39:32 * MohammadAG dislikes the fact that only Google Maps has maps for Israel Mar 27 14:40:08 Stskeeps, I'm talking about the real deal, not the n900 version, works pretty well with voice navigation :) Mar 27 14:40:43 MohammadAG, so don't worry if you have a new version Mar 27 14:40:50 VDVsx: ah, yes Mar 27 14:42:36 VDVsx, kk, didn't want to waste ~300 kb from your repos :) Mar 27 14:43:53 * DocScrutinizer considers to finaly try and sync N900 to Kontact Mar 27 14:44:15 MohammadAG, the removes of old stuff happen, not sure about the periodicity, you have to ask X-Fade about that :) Mar 27 14:45:00 VDVsx, I thought you managed packages Mar 27 14:45:23 MohammadAG, nah, I don't manage anything :p Mar 27 14:45:43 MohammadAG, X-Fade from the maemo.org team does that Mar 27 14:46:02 I only give orders sometimes :p Mar 27 14:46:09 lol Mar 27 14:46:20 based in the community requests of course ;) Mar 27 14:46:58 lol Mar 27 14:47:26 but that is also about to end Mar 27 14:47:40 my term in the council ends next week Mar 27 14:48:17 you weren't nominated for next year? Mar 27 14:48:37 anybody a better pointer off top of his head, than just 'google: maemo kontact sync' ? Mar 27 14:48:52 I was, but didn't accepted :D Mar 27 14:50:05 VDVsx has had ne Mar 27 14:50:13 enough of the whipping boy post. :P Mar 27 14:51:14 heh, wasn't it as pleasant as expected? Mar 27 14:51:35 wrong whip I assume :-P Mar 27 14:52:02 * VDVsx crosses GAN900 from his voting list Mar 27 14:53:07 damn, already voted :( Mar 27 14:53:53 o_O Mar 27 14:54:00 * lcuk has big multitouch pc Mar 27 14:54:09 lcuk: ? Mar 27 14:54:38 i just bought a new computer Mar 27 14:54:59 lcuk, isn't only a screen ? or has cpu as well ? Mar 27 14:55:00 a tablet? Mar 27 14:55:15 lcuk: I thought you broke your screen in a very unique way ;-) Mar 27 14:55:22 DocScrutinizer: ghehe Mar 27 14:55:45 aquatix, large format monitor for next to me Mar 27 14:55:49 VDVsx, full machine Mar 27 14:55:52 allinone Mar 27 14:55:57 HP Touchsmart? Mar 27 14:55:59 oh nvm Mar 27 14:56:02 gesture for black, gesture for fading to white Mar 27 14:56:04 was gonna get one Mar 27 14:56:15 but was concerned about amd :) Mar 27 14:56:33 so i got a packard bell onetwo which has intel chip :) Mar 27 14:56:38 Touchsmarts use AMD? Mar 27 14:56:49 *facepalm* Mar 27 14:57:03 i think theres different models, the only touchsmarts i saw were amd Mar 27 14:57:08 they had a hp tablet too Mar 27 14:57:16 multitouch but my stylus didnt work with it Mar 27 14:57:22 and i didnt like the stylus they supplied Mar 27 14:57:53 so i got the packard bell that works with my n900 stylus :) Mar 27 14:58:43 * DocScrutinizer wonders how multituch with stylus does work Mar 27 14:59:09 lcuk: you'll need 2 N900 ;-P Mar 27 14:59:18 thats easy :) Mar 27 14:59:24 i already have that Mar 27 14:59:38 DocScrutinizer, it's for japan Mar 27 14:59:40 lcuk, only 2 ? :p Mar 27 14:59:46 :) Mar 27 14:59:48 DocScrutinizer, 4 styluses Mar 27 14:59:50 SpeedEvil: XP Mar 27 15:00:07 anyone coming to birmingham tonight? Mar 27 15:00:23 no :P Mar 27 15:00:41 how to sync to KDE Kontact? anybody? Mar 27 15:00:53 lol? Mar 27 15:01:05 k Mar 27 15:01:52 DocScrutinizer, did you try to search at Tmo ? I read something about that but can remember where :( Mar 27 15:02:22 VDVsx: ok, I'll try the google approach then Mar 27 15:05:00 oh yeah, I vaguely remember a linux program for syncing now.. it had a very weird name :/ Mar 27 15:05:20 kitchensync? Mar 27 15:05:51 * MohammadAG likes how Joikuspot doubles as a portable heater Mar 27 15:07:22 * DocScrutinizer wonders if setting N900 on fire would serve same purpose Mar 27 15:08:54 nah, setting it on fire would kill it for good, Joikuspot just locks the CPU @ 600MHz Mar 27 15:09:23 * DocScrutinizer heard that's also killing it for good ;-P Mar 27 15:10:19 not in this weather :P Mar 27 15:10:44 MohammadAG, it locks it at 600? really? Mar 27 15:11:06 I thought the heat would mostly be because it puts wlan in adhoc mode which has no powersaving at all Mar 27 15:11:17 well CPU is running at 100% all the time Mar 27 15:11:22 and I'm assuming that's 600 Mar 27 15:11:43 ShadowJK, Ad-hoc doesn't raise it as much Mar 27 15:11:46 check top Mar 27 15:12:11 I havent reid joikuspot... does it fix the kernel issues? Mar 27 15:12:12 hmm it's cooling down Mar 27 15:12:19 which issues? Mar 27 15:12:28 crashing ones :) Mar 27 15:12:42 never crashes for me Mar 27 15:12:43 powertop should give statistics of cpu states anyway.. Mar 27 15:12:54 BUT it doesn't work on custom kernels Mar 27 15:12:59 you have to use the stock kernel Mar 27 15:13:30 it comes with a funny kernel module iirc Mar 27 15:13:35 ShadowJK, after 30 second-analysis... Mar 27 15:13:49 it probably does nat/something in userspace Mar 27 15:13:54 it seems that when the screen is locked, CPU is running at less than 10% Mar 27 15:14:15 but the speedometer they use seems to be raising this, and that happens when the screen is unlocked Mar 27 15:14:27 the kernel module is open source Mar 27 15:14:54 yeah Mar 27 15:15:01 it just passes packets really.. Mar 27 15:16:23 ShadowJK, Xorg uses about +60% when the screen is unlocked Mar 27 15:16:30 lol :) Mar 27 15:30:58 hooray for updating speedometer at 200fps Mar 27 15:36:45 something's wrong Mar 27 15:36:49 the N900 isn't charging Mar 27 15:37:12 it's charging (as in it says charging) but when I remove the cable it dings Mar 27 15:39:56 dings? Mar 27 15:42:04 low battery warning I'd assume Mar 27 15:42:54 ptl ^ Mar 27 15:43:56 :/ Mar 27 15:45:16 is it possible to install the latest tear on os2008 Mar 27 15:46:23 There's one for maemo5 and there's one for maemo4(os2008), pick the right one Mar 27 15:46:43 where do I find the libwebkit packages Mar 27 15:53:24 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=28539&highlight=tear+browser Mar 27 15:53:31 it,s safe to use the n900 with the ac adapter connected even if the battery is full? Mar 27 15:54:34 yes it is Mar 27 15:55:50 it discharges iirc Mar 27 15:56:02 and then starts recharging when the battery goes down Mar 27 15:56:05 i read in the manual i think tha this could lead to trouble Mar 27 15:56:08 so it doesn't run on AC power Mar 27 15:56:35 it might waste energy so your bill we be a cent or two higher :P Mar 27 15:58:07 hi Mar 27 15:58:17 any of you found a car charger that works with the n900 ? Mar 27 15:58:57 http://www.hama.de/portal/articleId*166923/action*2563 Mar 27 15:59:03 i bought this one Mar 27 15:59:15 but my nokia ain't charging with it :( Mar 27 16:00:18 thanks Mar 27 16:02:45 hmm the applet doesn't show as it is discharging but anyway i think that was the issue written in the manual Mar 27 16:04:03 jatt, it shouldn't Mar 27 16:04:49 it should'nt run on ac power? Mar 27 16:05:52 No Mar 27 16:07:37 El_Angelo, yes I have the nokia DC-10 car charger. Works fine. Mar 27 16:07:55 ~tell jatt about batteryfaq Mar 27 16:08:03 El_Angelo, searh tmo for "solution dumb charger" Mar 27 16:08:19 DocScrutinizer, we should write one specific to n900 too :-) Mar 27 16:08:42 El_Angelo: i beleive u may need to short the 2 usb signl pins in the charger plug if it refuess to charge Mar 27 16:09:00 tho the one i got just wokred Mar 27 16:09:14 Hi guys, Is it possible to get GTK+2.0 => 2.1.8 on the N900? Mar 27 16:09:29 ShadowJK: most parts of the OM batfaq are generic, not specific to any particular hw platform Mar 27 16:10:18 dan2003, the nokia car charger is obviously microusb charging compliant and "just works" Mar 27 16:11:06 * Noobmonk3y_ waves Mar 27 16:11:30 ShadowJK: i didnt buy the nokai one, i bought an el-cheapo one from ebay Mar 27 16:11:45 3670mV and 20mAh left the battery meter says.. it fails so hard with the 2400mAh batttery :D Mar 27 16:11:47 ooo two of me, must have left my laptop on Mar 27 16:11:53 dan2003: as would any standard 12v->USB adapter Mar 27 16:12:19 oooo decent batteries exist? :) Mar 27 16:13:18 noobmonk3y, well it's twice as thick as the original battery Mar 27 16:13:37 ahhhh mugen stylee? Mar 27 16:13:43 Hi all. Has anyone used the locate package? I'm puzzled: it creates a buncha folders in /usr/{lib,bin} and so forth, but doesn't put any files there. It puts all the files in /opt/maemo/... (e.g. /opt/maemo/usr/bin/gnu/locate) Mar 27 16:13:47 what's up with that? Mar 27 16:14:03 noooo idea Mar 27 16:14:16 space for temp files? Mar 27 16:14:27 ~optification Mar 27 16:14:29 [optification] a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the partitioning is FUBAR, or http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs Mar 27 16:14:34 jonaskoe1ker, Sounds like bad optification. Mar 27 16:14:44 is there a good media player for n900 which can play based on directories? Mar 27 16:14:58 ah Mar 27 16:15:33 but wait, shouldn't /opt/.../bin be in my $PATH ... ? Mar 27 16:15:35 noobmonk3y, yes this is the mugen fatbattery Mar 27 16:15:48 and ... why don't people just fix the partitioning? Is that a hairy, sticky process? Mar 27 16:15:59 ahhhh did you get one? my main concern is no cam cover? Mar 27 16:16:35 ShadowJK: and being twice as thick it should have at least 2.5 times the capacity :-/ Mar 27 16:16:46 jonas: it is a hairy sticky process. Mar 27 16:16:46 is it possible to edit the menus on os2008? Mar 27 16:16:56 and the details are too hairy for you to understand. Mar 27 16:17:13 DocScrutinizer, the actualy cell is shorther than the original though Mar 27 16:17:55 but anyway, small manufacturers like mugen don't have access to the awesome battery factories like the bog boys such as nokia do.. Mar 27 16:18:11 bog boys? :D Mar 27 16:18:18 :) Mar 27 16:18:21 s/bog/big/ Mar 27 16:18:21 ShadowJK meant: but anyway, small manufacturers like mugen don't have access to the awesome battery factories like the big boys such as nokia do.. Mar 27 16:18:29 sjk: www.b0g.org :) Mar 27 16:18:35 if only nokia realised they had the technology lol Mar 27 16:18:58 Considering their same-volume battery for N800 had 1200mAh compared to nokia original 1500mAh :) Mar 27 16:19:12 RST38h: really? Hm... I'd figure you'd install a mini-linux which lets you pxe-boot over wifi (pesky wpa2 and so forth) an OS which then fidgets the file systems... Mar 27 16:19:12 (the 1200 was advertised as 1800) Mar 27 16:19:17 RST38h: or something like that Mar 27 16:19:43 well Mar 27 16:19:44 Maybe its possible to play all mp3s in a folder with default player? I cant seem to find that option Mar 27 16:20:02 dotCOMmie: I think it's designed to not have it Mar 27 16:20:05 i think you have to vcreate a play list first Mar 27 16:20:15 dotCOMmie: designed by people who think they know what you want Mar 27 16:20:49 jonaskoe1ker: is there an alternative music player that can do this? Mar 27 16:20:58 the thing is - when nokia had made the N900 and everyone realized "shit this bat won't cut it" the normal marketing things is "let's not release an add on bat, instead - let's make the bat for the NEXT GEN device beefier and tout that at launch" ... simple as that Mar 27 16:21:02 dont think so Mar 27 16:21:04 its not quite that simple, there is a 256Meg nand flash, which ahs the syste on, and a further 32 gig as a eMMC flash, so they cannot just be repartioned Mar 27 16:21:11 they are seperate physical mediums Mar 27 16:21:19 dotCOMmie: I don't know if they've been packaged, but mpd and mplayer are what I use on my desk/laptops, and they're _mighty_ fine :) Mar 27 16:21:36 tybollt: well the original battery manages the stated goal of lasting the day for me.. Mar 27 16:21:48 i am in the process (right now) of writing a mpd client for n900, (i dont like cuteMPD) Mar 27 16:21:57 dan2003: ah, I see Mar 27 16:21:59 jonaskoe1ker: I use moc(p) on my laptops but.. it would be nice to not have to use a keyboard Mar 27 16:22:12 I guess mplayer * will have to do for now Mar 27 16:22:29 dotCOMmie: how about "find -type f > playlist.m3u" Mar 27 16:22:45 tybollt, I think the biggest issue is finding out what eats battery, because top is worthless for it, and what eats power and how much is pretty unintuitive to the average developer, let alone user Mar 27 16:23:12 I organize music by folders and usually play them like that having hundreds of playlist is suboptimal Mar 27 16:23:25 esp since you wont get hierachy Mar 27 16:23:38 powertop is somewhat usable, but it's still a trial and error of disabling/uninstalling desktop widgets until wakeups go down.. Mar 27 16:24:03 dotCOMmie: well, I meant to create one big hunking playlist Mar 27 16:24:28 dotCOMmie: then you have some sort of folder locality/clustered-together-ness because of similar (full) file names Mar 27 16:25:04 jonaskoe1ker: yeah that would work. But its silly there is now file browser in music player Mar 27 16:25:15 almost every musics player does Mar 27 16:25:26 dotCOMmie: I agree 100% :) Mar 27 16:25:47 it's rather silly. It's also a poor backend choice for gPodder, because it adds podcasts to my media library ^_^ Mar 27 16:26:12 i use my zaurus with MPD to play the music and have a home made ui for client, the audio files are hosted by nas on my wifi router, am writing a client for n900 atm, plus use minion firefox plugin from laptop/dekstop Mar 27 16:26:22 wow, tear is very nice Mar 27 16:26:25 also havea gumstix with audiostix which i plan on setting up with mpd Mar 27 16:26:39 for the other room Mar 27 16:26:59 gumstick have soundcard add ons? Mar 27 16:27:30 indeed Mar 27 16:27:42 neat Mar 27 16:28:00 and wifistix Mar 27 16:28:13 the 3 stacked up make for one teenie mpd server Mar 27 16:28:15 any idea why the n900 would say "not charging" when it is on usb? Mar 27 16:28:24 it is not the nokia cable, but still... Mar 27 16:28:31 why not just get openwrt compatible router with usb sound card? Mar 27 16:28:47 it'll only be 10 times larger d: Mar 27 16:29:20 cos i have this tuff alread ;) i have 2 x asus router with usbhost . (usb audio cabaple) also Mar 27 16:33:43 anybody know which repo has libwebkit in ? Mar 27 16:34:20 corecode_: it *says* "not charging" ? Mar 27 16:34:41 DocScrutinizer: yes Mar 27 16:34:51 DocScrutinizer: first "charging" appears Mar 27 16:34:58 DocScrutinizer: then right after "not charging" Mar 27 16:35:02 yellow box Mar 27 16:35:16 hmm, wrong voltage maybe Mar 27 16:35:23 * RST38h is amazed by how quickly the Chinese design houses have caught up with TI and other big companies Mar 27 16:35:26 dunno Mar 27 16:35:55 now i need a upstart script Mar 27 16:36:09 and a way to remove my old symlinks Mar 27 16:36:27 too bad /tmp is so small Mar 27 16:36:38 corecode_, tried a different PC? Mar 27 16:39:29 Not charging means the USB host you have plugged it into, cannot provide enough current to charge the phone. Mar 27 16:40:07 Standard current for USB is 100mA, if the USB device is not a "supported" device. Mar 27 16:40:22 500mA if it is a supported device. Mar 27 16:40:59 This means, that if you plug it into a modem for example, and the modem does support reading the device in mass storage mode, you will get 500mA if you have the phone in mass storage mode. Mar 27 16:41:03 BTW the not charging happened to me once and it was a sw bug, a reboot fixed it Mar 27 16:41:24 If the phone is in PC suite mode, you will get 100mA because the phone is not recognised by the modem. Mar 27 16:41:55 Kurppa_, cool tip, did not know that, thx :) Mar 27 16:42:03 And will definitely get the "not charging" notification. Mar 27 16:42:30 Kurppa_, i've been wondering why my phone wont charge, even with my notebook's power share activated Mar 27 16:42:51 In a PC that does not have Nokia drivers installed, you will also get "not charging" if you have it in PC suite mode, since the phone is not recognised. Mar 27 16:43:40 noobmonk3y, ping Mar 27 16:43:52 Kurppa_: that's partially a question of N900 doing correct ENUM on USB though Mar 27 16:44:00 Kurppa: that only applies to windows Mar 27 16:44:17 Kurppa_: the 'supported device" bit is mostly a OTG issue Mar 27 16:44:26 The phone also remembers which mode you had it last in. If you had it on PC suite mode and now you only select "charging only", it will still be advertised to the PC in "pc suite" mode and you will get 100mA. Mar 27 16:44:56 So if it does not charge correctly, plug it into PC, select "mass storage" mode, and then it will charge correctly. Mar 27 16:45:00 Kurppa_: ee Mar 27 16:45:05 err what? Mar 27 16:45:34 That's how it's supposed to work. It's part of USB specification. Mar 27 16:46:12 You can google "usb unit load" for a better explanation, I'm crappy at explaining things :-) Mar 27 16:47:54 "Ubuntu Will Switch To Base-10 File Size Units In Future Release" Mar 27 16:47:57 Kurppa_: any standard USB gadget will do a proper negotiation of allowed VBUS current on ENUM, aiui. The 'known device' bit is a OTG extension where you got no ENUM as there's no master Mar 27 16:48:01 Is it April 1st already??? Mar 27 16:48:04 The AC adapter that came with the phone is different though, and will charge much faster than a PC can. It delivers 900mA or 9 unit load. Mar 27 16:48:27 Ugh I'm downgrading to ubuntu 9.10 Mar 27 16:48:33 too many crashes in the beta Mar 27 16:48:40 it feels like windows... Mar 27 16:49:04 Rst38h: I'm waiting for base ten x86 cpus. Mar 27 16:49:16 dan2003: which one did you get? Mar 27 16:49:41 car charger that is... Mar 27 16:49:43 the ac adapter that came with my n900 delivers 1200mA Mar 27 16:49:45 DocScrutinizer: N900 is different then, if I understood you correctly :-) Mar 27 16:50:15 Kurppa_: my charger is capable of 1200mA Mar 27 16:50:51 El_Angelo: uhm - i donno, was a generic one from hong-kong on ebay. I'll pop to car and loko if u want but i doubt itll have anythhing on it to identify it by Mar 27 16:51:26 It's capable of 1200mA, but I think the phone only charges at 900mA if I remember correctly. Good point though, mine was the same, 1200mA. Mar 27 16:52:01 Mohammad: Is 9.10 safe? Mar 27 16:52:10 Mohammad: Does it run Scratchbox2? Mar 27 16:52:49 Ubuntu beta has always been crashy. It's still been crashy 2 months after release :-) Mar 27 16:53:39 afternoon all Mar 27 16:53:51 Hello there. Mar 27 16:54:06 hi Kurppa_ Mar 27 16:54:22 moo lardman Mar 27 16:54:40 hey RST38h Mar 27 16:54:43 Kurppa_: whenever I plug my N900 to my laptop I see it in lsusb, and it has negotiated the max of 500mA. That's not dependent on g_ether or whatever, or on vendorid being listed in the database file Mar 27 16:55:18 hiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii Mar 27 16:55:32 i stuck? Mar 27 16:55:59 Alright. I don't know if it's my phone that's just malfunctioning then. Mar 27 16:56:27 Every time I've had it in PC suite mode and plugged it into a PC without PC suite drivers, it's been saying "not enough juice to charge". Mar 27 16:56:38 so is pr1.2 out yet? Mar 27 16:56:41 battery low warning at 3637mV... fail Mar 27 16:56:59 lardman: not today. Mar 27 16:56:59 lcuk: you about? Mar 27 16:57:12 Kurppa_: I've been out of touch for a couple of weeks, so was just wondering Mar 27 16:57:18 Ah, I see. Mar 27 16:57:22 Kurppa_, iirc if you remove drivers added by pc suite/ovi suite it starts working again.. something like that Mar 27 16:58:30 I've tried on a couple of pristine PC:s. PC suite has never been installed on them. But I do not know if it's just a bug in my phone. Mar 27 16:59:12 In general that message is displayed when the host pc does not agree to supply power Mar 27 16:59:40 Yes. It has always helped if I get the PC to recognise the device using mass storage mode. Mar 27 17:00:09 There could be a difference in how windows and unix handle it. Mar 27 17:00:12 hmm, I could really do with Google Street view (or similar) with a hook into the land registry house prices so I can walk around and see the price of houses in the vicinity Mar 27 17:00:14 anyone knows Gabriel Shulhof? Mar 27 17:00:25 You said you have used lsusb, so I assume you've used linux or another variant of unix. Mar 27 17:00:44 lardman, just whats up? Mar 27 17:00:44 I've only tried in win xp and 7. Mar 27 17:00:51 compass would help too, I don't suppose a hidden compass has been discovered in the N900 in the past couple of weeks? ;) Mar 27 17:00:52 (setting off to birmingham in ~ 5mins Mar 27 17:01:11 lcuk: Trying to remember the name of that gst source switcher you found for me Mar 27 17:01:23 or a vague date? Mar 27 17:01:26 lardman: it has. And a kitchen sink was found as well. Mar 27 17:01:38 Kurppa_: wonderful ;) Mar 27 17:02:22 cripes lardman ! Mar 27 17:02:40 Kurppa_: connect to laptop, select 'PC Suite', halley:~ # lsusb -v -s 1:4; ->... bmAttributes 0x80 Mar 27 17:02:41 lcuk: :) Mar 27 17:02:42 (Bus Powered) MaxPower 500mA Mar 27 17:03:34 Yep. Looks good. I think this linux or whatever you're using is a lot smarter than my those windows pc:s I've tried. Mar 27 17:03:46 Minus the my. Mar 27 17:05:15 I'll try that as well after I find an usb cable to see if it's just a bug in the software I'm using in the phone. Or in the phone itself :-) Mar 27 17:05:25 lardman, :) check your pm Mar 27 17:05:35 yeah, windoze is known to do some weird nasty things to USB Mar 27 17:05:47 Hi all. How do I proegramatically fiddle with my contacts? Mar 27 17:05:48 lcuk: thanks mate, have a safe trip back home Mar 27 17:06:04 will do - i have new toys so will play later Mar 27 17:06:07 jonaskoe1ker: what sort of fiddling? Mar 27 17:06:09 The contacts are probably stored in this sqlite database.. I forget where. Mar 27 17:06:09 several have gotten multiple identical facebook account #s attached to them, I want to remove them all Mar 27 17:06:19 lcuk: will try to catch you later on Mar 27 17:06:25 \o ttyl Mar 27 17:07:12 libosso-abook Mar 27 17:07:13 Kurppa_: so your explanations might be perfectly correct for MS based USB host systems Mar 27 17:07:26 jonaskoe1ker: http://maemo.org/development/sdks/maemo_5_api_documentation/ Mar 27 17:08:06 jonaskoe1ker: are you using PR1.2? Mar 27 17:08:29 PR1.2? Mar 27 17:09:11 Never mind. I just didn't understand correctly. Mar 27 17:09:23 hmm, has sb moved to pr1.2 libs now, so nothing can be installed? Mar 27 17:09:33 or rather s/sb/sb rootfs Mar 27 17:10:03 jonaskoe1ker: I found contactinfos pkg yesterday in the repos. It's supposed to provide access to contacts database via dbus. Alas I wasn't able to find a decent API description Mar 27 17:10:30 no sysfs'ish interface? Mar 27 17:10:39 nope Mar 27 17:10:51 I mean the g--damn phone runs unix. Everything is a file. Lines of text. That sort of... gah... :\ Mar 27 17:11:01 it's a clib interface Mar 27 17:11:20 there is code floating about, in fact there's some on my webpage to see which contacts are online Mar 27 17:11:34 you could use something similar and remember the facebook/etc. ids Mar 27 17:13:15 jonaskoe1ker: http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Using_Generic_Platform_Components/Using_Address_Book_API http://maemo.org/api_refs/5.0/5.0-final/libosso-abook/OssoABookContact.html Mar 27 17:13:33 praise be to the FSM, selector is already available in extras! Mar 27 17:14:14 Selector? Mar 27 17:15:23 gst input selector element Mar 27 17:15:25 (can't find anything about it on google) Mar 27 17:15:35 http://www.gstreamer.net/data/doc/gstreamer/head/gst-plugins-bad-plugins/html/gst-plugins-bad-plugins-input-selector.html Mar 27 17:16:02 is good, need to have file and video src for barcode pipeline Mar 27 17:16:30 and having done nothing on this for a month or so, I think I should pull my finger out and get it released Mar 27 17:16:59 though with the autobuilder building for pr 1.2 (afaiu), I may have chosen the wrong time Mar 27 17:20:16 what do the different wlan power saving levels do on os2008? Mar 27 17:20:26 like if I have the middle one, what will it do? Mar 27 17:20:36 the highest one did not work well Mar 27 17:21:10 use more power Mar 27 17:21:18 ;) Mar 27 17:21:52 though some routers don't like the power saving methods it uses, so you have to dial it back Mar 27 17:22:15 what exactly the methods are, I can't remember Mar 27 17:22:26 MUHAHAHA reboot on plugging laptop USB to the device Mar 27 17:22:42 so, what rebooted? laptop or the tablet? Mar 27 17:23:10 tablet of course Mar 27 17:23:12 :-P Mar 27 17:23:46 * RST38h once again notices how slow App Manager is Mar 27 17:24:21 RST38h: is that because it's been updating for the last two weeks? ;) Mar 27 17:25:07 lardman: Naah, it is just naturally like that Mar 27 17:25:19 lardman: Megabytes of repo indices do not help either Mar 27 17:25:46 I think the update strategy could also be improved Mar 27 17:25:54 i.e. do it while the list is still present Mar 27 17:26:05 bootcount:3, bootreason:sw_rst Mar 27 17:26:26 and even work out which packages need to be removed/added behind the scenes so there is less waiting around Mar 27 17:27:11 ~praise cmdline execution widget Mar 27 17:27:12 All hail cmdline execution widget! Mar 27 17:29:41 tzz, TV takinghead: "sleep faster tonight!" Mar 27 17:31:12 +l Mar 27 17:38:05 is it just me to feel it's kinda silly Nokia not even bothered to create a whatever rudimentary Nokiasuite for Linux Desktop hosts, though the device is Linux? Mar 27 17:38:40 'The video shows that the Predators invented the "slide to unlock" feature circa 1987.' Mar 27 17:38:51 Hi all, I've got a question regarding the GSoC. I've put up a project suggestion on the site and it appears in the list, but I wanted to ask if we're required to provide a more "formal" application of sorts, or is it sufficient that the project appears there. Mar 27 17:42:20 DocScrutinizer, it is handy. I've gotten a desktop widget to set the backlight to '2' (very dim) when clikcked. Mar 27 17:42:37 DocScrutinizer: it's not just you.. Mar 27 17:43:00 They even have a cross platform GUI toolkit for that. Mar 27 17:43:14 *sigh* Mar 27 17:43:29 heh, I guess it's called Qt? Mar 27 17:43:50 Yes. Yes it is.. Mar 27 17:48:21 N900evil_: good idea. Found it quite annoying to swing from menu to submenu to subsub quite some times. E.g. for switchin backlight to 'always on' Mar 27 17:49:00 ~ Mar 27 17:49:36 RST38h: ~~ ? Mar 27 17:50:06 〜 Mar 27 17:50:15 duh Mar 27 17:52:29 derf: what's‮that Mar 27 17:52:43 ¿ Mar 27 17:55:06 docscrutinizer: I'd hope we'd get away from the 1990s with special sofware for each device, and support standard protocols ;( Mar 27 17:55:16 DocScrutinizer: http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/301c/index.htm Mar 27 17:57:40 ∾ is the small brother, I guess ... Mar 27 17:58:22 ShadowJK: ack. anyway some 'conduits' might be needed, even while clinging to standards as much as possible. I can live without a Nokia wrapper around xterm ssh, and sftp. But the approach to 'ship with' Windoze support, and forget about Linux, well that's stupid anyway Mar 27 18:02:58 s/Linux/Linux&Mac Mar 27 18:06:15 N900evil: any idea how to set Simple Brightness App to 'keep display on', via cmdline? Mar 27 18:06:54 nope, sorry. Mar 27 18:07:45 I thought the windows softwaredidnt work either, atleast people whine about N900 Ovi Suite support all the fucking time Mar 27 18:09:24 Nope, it doesn't work. Mar 27 18:09:38 Ovi Suite is a clusterfuck, has been this way for years Mar 27 18:10:07 Converting it to Java at some point obviously did not help it any Mar 27 18:10:24 You install PC suite, it doesn't work and says you need to install Ovi suite. Ovi suite removes PC suite when you click OK and starts installing. After it's started up, it says your phone is not supported. Mar 27 18:11:01 You try to remove Ovi suite to get even some of the functionality back that PC suite had. Ovi suite uninstaller keeps crashing so it can't be uninstalled. Mar 27 18:11:13 Then you're just screwed. Mar 27 18:12:09 And you have rebooted your PC about 3 times during all this. Mar 27 18:12:43 Why are you forgetting 6-7 background programs it installs on Windows? Mar 27 18:12:55 That will now run on startup Mar 27 18:13:14 Got to have some daemons. They're nice. Mar 27 18:14:23 * DocScrutinizer facepalms Mar 27 18:16:15 try ubuntu for charging? Mar 27 18:16:37 * dmj726_n900 is half serious Mar 27 18:17:23 VMWare Ubuntu for charging. Mar 27 18:25:12 mhh, I just tried sudo reboot and it seems to be working allright. Is this the proper way of rebooting maemo? Mar 27 18:25:22 and, is it coupled to rootsh being installed? Mar 27 18:25:35 I'm not sure. someone just asked me how to reboot the device from CLI and I just tried this. Mar 27 18:27:27 should be a perfectly clean way to do it Mar 27 18:28:37 Beats pulling out the battery. Mar 27 18:29:18 you could just skip a call with shutdown -r now though Mar 27 18:29:45 nidO: meh :P Mar 27 18:34:30 i wonder... Mar 27 18:34:43 how do i package upstart scripts properly Mar 27 18:36:52 Hi, I want to embed Python in C app, I added the header file #include . But how to link it with gcc? Mar 27 18:37:36 does it work in linux? Mar 27 18:37:53 I think so Mar 27 18:38:04 can you make sure? Mar 27 18:38:34 Hey, flash stopped working for me in the microb browser, any idea what I could have messed up? Mar 27 18:39:59 corecode: not very sure about it, cause I never use Python before. But I wrote a simple helloworld.py to print "Hello, World", and I run" python helloworld.py", it works in scratchbox Mar 27 18:40:50 When I check the Add-ons/Plugins the field is empty. Mar 27 18:41:40 jensp: that'd be a problem... Mar 27 18:42:24 timeless_mbp: Any idea how to get it back? Flash doesn't seem to be in the repos. Mar 27 18:42:38 it isn't Mar 27 18:42:43 you're not supposed to delete it ;-) Mar 27 18:43:03 add-ons/plugins is entirely empty? Mar 27 18:43:16 I didn't do so conciously... Mar 27 18:43:18 i have 5 things, including 'default plug-in' Mar 27 18:43:21 yep Mar 27 18:45:39 cat ~/.mozilla/microb/pluginreg.dat Mar 27 18:47:40 timeless_mbp: http://dpaste.com/176760/ Mar 27 18:48:30 lovelyboy: what i'm getting at is, you should try it in linux first before you try it in maemo Mar 27 18:49:58 did you do anything stupid lately? :) Mar 27 18:50:35 hmm Mar 27 18:50:44 timeless_mbp: obviously yes, but I'm not sure what ;) the .mozilla/plugins directory contains the files btw Mar 27 18:50:56 how *do* i start upstart tasks from a debian package? Mar 27 18:51:47 that file shouldn't be anywhere near that empty Mar 27 18:51:47 it should be ~48 lines Mar 27 18:51:47 [re]moving /usr/lib/browser/plugins counts as stupid fwiw :) Mar 27 18:51:47 ls /usr/lib/browser/plugins Mar 27 18:52:53 timeless_mbp: http://dpaste.com/ wtf?! Mar 27 18:53:09 woops sry Mar 27 18:53:17 http://dpaste.com/176763/ Mar 27 18:53:18 llkik Mar 27 18:53:25 7 mil carcaças Mar 27 18:54:37 timeless_mbp, shouldn't the files that's empty in his case be regenerated if it was deleted? Mar 27 18:55:03 s/files/file/ Mar 27 18:55:04 MohammadAG meant: timeless_mbp, shouldn't the file that's empty in his case be regenerated if it was deleted? Mar 27 18:56:26 MohammadAG: I guess it would be if my plugins wouldn't consist of a weird loop of symlinks oO Mar 27 18:57:13 jensp, I have many symlinks in /usr/lib Mar 27 18:57:57 MohammadAG: Yeah, but as you can see in my paste http://dpaste.com/176763/ the symlinks are pointing to themselves Mar 27 18:59:13 jensp, again, I have many symlinks pointing to themselves Mar 27 18:59:15 sec Mar 27 18:59:35 ok... seems weird to me. Mar 27 18:59:41 actually, the browser plugins aren't Mar 27 19:00:23 i've 98% of my rootfs filled Mar 27 19:00:43 i don't think maemo is actually using upstart Mar 27 19:00:46 seriously Mar 27 19:00:52 jensp, http://dpaste.com/176764/ Mar 27 19:00:58 FIQ get out of -devel Mar 27 19:01:34 I think the repository links for -devel should be removed from the wiki Mar 27 19:01:58 why? Mar 27 19:02:58 MohammadAG: thanks, any idea how I could get those files? I just downloaded the latest maemo5 image, I'll see if I can get them extracted from there... Mar 27 19:03:41 jensp, yes you can get them from the image, extract it using flasher-3.5 and mount the root.jffs2 file Mar 27 19:03:55 the N900 uses ubifs, so you'll need a ubifs enabled kernel on your desktop Mar 27 19:04:36 jensp: please figure out how you managed to convince your system to eat those files Mar 27 19:04:36 that's obviously a bad thing Mar 27 19:04:36 and someone should promise not to eat them Mar 27 19:04:51 euhm Mar 27 19:05:00 upstart, anybody? Mar 27 19:05:06 Heh. That was actually info I needed at work. Thanks MohammadAG! Mar 27 19:05:37 lol np :) Mar 27 19:06:56 timeless_mbp: I am, currently looking through my shells history, but I can't find anything suspicious. Mar 27 19:08:34 ~ping Mar 27 19:08:35 ~pong Mar 27 19:08:46 jensp: i'm more interested in your package install/update history Mar 27 19:08:47 i'd be surprised if you personally shot yourself in your leg w/o remembering doing something like it Mar 27 19:08:47 i mean, it's possible to have serious amnesia after a self inflicted wound Mar 27 19:08:47 but... Mar 27 19:11:33 timeless_mbp: like drilling a hole into your skull? Mar 27 19:16:13 jensp: you're sure /usr/lib/browser/plugins/ isn't itself just a symlink to ~/.mozilla/plugins ? Mar 27 19:17:27 ahh,nevermind. 'disbaled/' has a different timestamp Mar 27 19:25:45 got it to work with the plugins extracted from the image, thanks everyone Mar 27 19:37:56 timeless: if you'd suggest how to get HAM log via cmdline... A 'history | grep apt | pastebinit ' seems simple enough Mar 27 19:42:58 I hope thdere will be some kind of new battery technology available soon. I've almost emptied the battery 4 times today. :-) Mar 27 19:44:21 That "5 minutes to full charge" technology that was in the news a couple of years ago would work for me as well. Mar 27 19:44:30 Kurppa_: I wonder why you even removed the device from charger at all :-P Mar 27 19:45:02 I'm finnish so I'm chatting from sauna. :-P Mar 27 19:45:17 And the cord is so short.. Mar 27 19:46:24 Kurppa_: 5min-charging never will work, thanks to china and EU making usb-charging mandatory. You *need* >1h to charge a battery over USB, simple because you can't have more than 1A of current on the plugs afaik Mar 27 19:47:09 Ah, there's some kind of upper cap on the charging current then? Mar 27 19:47:32 on the plug current, yes Mar 27 19:47:48 Or is the 1A just a limitation of current li-ion/li-po battery technology. Mar 27 19:48:01 I see. But laws can be changed. Mar 27 19:48:22 nope, you can charge LiIon much faster, depending on particular cell technology Mar 27 19:48:26 and 500mah limit for usb :p Mar 27 19:48:36 And I'm sure there will be tech workarounds for laws, when the technology is ready for it. Mar 27 19:50:43 Yeah. I guess some part of the 1A limit is also because they don't want the mobile phone getting too hot. Mar 27 19:51:24 Would suck if it was burning hot in your pocket after charging. Mar 27 19:51:44 nah, that's solvable Mar 27 19:52:09 By a huge heatsink on the side of the phone. Mar 27 19:52:16 charging for a theme is kinda lame Mar 27 19:52:36 Capitalism. Mar 27 19:53:25 charging for actions that are described in details, like theme packaging, is lame^2 Mar 27 19:53:57 by designing a charger control that has high efficiency, or by completely doing the regulator business in charger rather than in phone (the motorola way iirc) Mar 27 19:54:17 I was talking bout it at the FRUCT conference - OSS is "for fun" Mar 27 19:54:34 if you don't have fun by doing themes - then don't do it Mar 27 19:56:01 Arkenoi, do you have some kind of invisibility spell or something? :D Mar 27 19:56:09 BS! I'm even paying the neighbor's kid to maw my lawn Mar 27 19:56:42 I guess for example those RC car chargers do huge currents on those li-ion batteries Mar 27 19:57:18 I wish I had a lawn. I'd go roll on it right now. Mar 27 19:57:21 it's described very well how to do it, so is paying for it lame? It's not fun to me, so the lawn shouldn't see mawing at all? Mar 27 19:57:28 Winter. Bah. Mar 27 19:58:52 DocScrutinizer: well, mawing is work Mar 27 19:59:14 DocScrutinizer: charging 10 bucks for clicking 1 button - lame :) Mar 27 19:59:35 PAYING 10 bucks is lame Mar 27 19:59:58 charging 10 bucks is perfectly ok Mar 27 20:00:58 why? Mar 27 20:01:33 need explanation for the obvious? Mar 27 20:01:52 charging old people 100 bucks to, well, check their e-mail is ok? :) Mar 27 20:02:00 yes, please Mar 27 20:04:47 Asking the price is ok. Paying it is stupid. Mar 27 20:05:09 and btw Mar 27 20:05:26 exactly. Unless you got a monopoly Mar 27 20:05:40 But believe or not, many people make their living by doing just that. Take for example Nokia's Vertu phones ;-) Mar 27 20:05:40 I don't think that use of MADDE to make money is not violating EULA Mar 27 20:07:02 wazd: duh. I think you're seriously mistaken here Mar 27 20:07:15 DocScrutinizer: where exactly? :) Mar 27 20:09:11 Morally, conning old people is wrong. Mar 27 20:09:15 wazd: with EULA. Please quote Mar 27 20:11:13 DocScrutinizer: well, right now I don't have time to dig thru all that infinite papers, but I'll ask Daniel later Mar 27 20:12:28 well I've seen EULAs for compilers forbidding their use by military or in weapon development, but honestly I doubt MADDE would forbid creating commercial packages, that's not exactly what Nokia is after Mar 27 20:14:17 * Stskeeps doubts too Mar 27 20:14:17 except of course if they possibly plan to have a commercial version of MADDE for companies to pay for it, so they can create their profit Mar 27 20:14:40 (see Qt) Mar 27 20:16:19 use free MADDE for free products, pay for commercial grade MADDE to create commercial products Mar 27 20:18:25 * DocScrutinizer curses free-as-in-beer mentality Mar 27 20:19:42 "heh, it's just like hitting a button, and I'd do that for fun. So while I don't bother to actually do, how may you dare to charge me for that?!?" Mar 27 20:20:34 you should give me a buck so you're allowed to do that fun! Mar 27 20:22:54 having fun? I have that patented! Mar 27 20:23:27 * SpeedEvil ponders a wonderojus world where you can ask a browser 'dump page related state to swap atomically' Mar 27 20:23:51 * SpeedEvil has 6 windows open, and it's getting slow. Mar 27 20:23:55 You can always ask. Mar 27 20:25:58 * DocScrutinizer heard some weeks ago someone patented patenting patent patenting, so your patent is void, javispedro X-P Mar 27 20:29:18 Phone almost out of battery. Where is my lifeline? Mar 27 20:30:32 Anybody know if there is an app for adjusting headphones 'gain'? Mar 27 20:31:03 Right now if I use headphones, the incoming call volume is so loud it breaks my ears. Mar 27 20:31:04 * DocScrutinizer notices the above scheme resembles to selling a fence to be painted by the meter to eager painters Mar 27 20:31:52 I have to keep it loud so I can hear from the speakers that the phone ringing. They share the same volume setting. Mar 27 20:31:53 'hey, dude, it's *FUN*' Mar 27 20:32:20 in xchat when i click on a link the maemo browser is not launched how do I configure this? Mar 27 20:32:38 jatt, wfm Mar 27 20:32:52 ~wfm Mar 27 20:32:52 it has been said that wfm is (Wired For Management Baseline) This is an Intel hardware specification that is designed to allow for compliance with easier management of desktop PCs in a networked environment. The specification calls for computers to be compatible with a pre-boot protocol that can be used to update the system or perform other management options. Also, the computer must be compatible with network/desktop management applications.. Works ... Mar 27 20:33:45 * ptl wonders how xchat might have a pre-boot protocol that can be used toupdate the system! Mar 27 20:33:57 * ptl considers using xchat instead of flasher Mar 27 20:34:09 what is wfm? a command I need to run from the shell? Mar 27 20:34:23 beats me too Mar 27 20:34:28 write the fucking manual? Mar 27 20:34:30 WFM = Works For Me Mar 27 20:34:31 Never heard. Mar 27 20:34:36 oh. Mar 27 20:34:36 jatt: click and hold Mar 27 20:34:37 works for me Mar 27 20:34:50 in other words, "you are delusional" Mar 27 20:34:54 acronyms! Mar 27 20:34:54 or "it's in your head" Mar 27 20:35:04 naah. Mar 27 20:35:09 WFM on my PC. Mar 27 20:35:22 lemme check it here Mar 27 20:35:40 just saying it works for me. Not that it might not fail for others. Mar 27 20:36:01 ;) ok will try holding a little bit more Mar 27 20:36:05 do yolu get a dialog on clicking? Mar 27 20:36:42 me? yes Mar 27 20:36:49 context menu Mar 27 20:36:51 select it Mar 27 20:36:54 'open link in browser' Mar 27 20:36:59 then microb starts Mar 27 20:37:00 worked ok Mar 27 20:37:13 yeah, it did Mar 27 20:37:37 that's all, folks! Test complete. Mar 27 20:37:42 yes it's working I wasn't holding long enough, thanks guys Mar 27 20:37:42 sure, doing that all the time Mar 27 20:37:49 yw Mar 27 20:46:37 moo wazd2 Mar 27 20:46:59 Stskeeps: heya :) Mar 27 20:47:18 how's it going? Mar 27 20:49:03 that's odd, I installed an application and got .2 MB free space in / Mar 27 20:53:43 You could try apt-get autoremove, but even that has a bug which prevents you from doing it if you have too little space. Mar 27 20:53:52 Free some up soon. I Mar 27 20:54:18 no I mean the free space increased by .2 MB Mar 27 20:54:18 've seen things getting truncated from /etc if there is too little space. Mar 27 20:54:24 Ah. Mar 27 20:54:51 hi guys Mar 27 20:55:09 which is kinda odd, but I don't complain Mar 27 20:55:10 does anybody know how to get a transparent window/widget ? Mar 27 20:55:22 Well, it's an on-the-fly compressing filesystem. Maybe that has something to do with it. Or maybe HAM did some cleanup. Mar 27 20:55:34 I am writing a home pluging for diablo Mar 27 20:55:39 so do apt-get and ipkg both work on the n900? Mar 27 20:55:59 I ma using a gtktextview but that's not transparent and hide my backgronud Mar 27 20:56:00 sync will free deleted space Mar 27 20:56:01 any idea ? Mar 27 20:56:08 which is the default package system? Mar 27 20:58:49 Stskeeps: well, FRUCT party time is over, back to work :) Mar 27 21:00:13 hehe Mar 27 21:00:17 any interesting events from there? Mar 27 21:00:30 WTF Mar 27 21:00:41 Off Topic just went waaay off into left field. Mar 27 21:01:25 mh. I feel there's something wrong with how my n900 camera takes pictures in the dark. they're totally green Mar 27 21:01:33 and the preview isn't. just the picture taken Mar 27 21:01:54 I tried other white balances but they're all green Mar 27 21:02:35 and way too dark. I think it's taking the picture not while the flash is on Mar 27 21:02:39 exposure is a 0 Mar 27 21:03:09 hmm.. Mar 27 21:03:41 I started the phone app and at the same time opened the keyboard, now I can't click anything on the desktop Mar 27 21:03:45 Shapeshifter: aeen that, but seemed to me to be fixed with pr1.1.1 Mar 27 21:04:38 or, uh, I can click on a contact though Mar 27 21:04:53 but no shortcuts or widgets are working Mar 27 21:05:59 and things seem to break as I use them, I can access one thing once and then it doesn't open any more until I try again a bit later or something :) Mar 27 21:06:32 is there some process I can kill or something? Mar 27 21:07:04 Shapeshifter: also I can't reproduce the issue here Mar 27 21:08:08 what happens if I kill hildon-home or hildon-desktop, will they restart? :) Mar 27 21:08:16 Shapeshifter: what I noticed though is: autofocus on <50cm is severely flawed by overexposure, in automatic mode. Works in macro mode Mar 27 21:08:17 Do you guys have the same problem as me? When I take pictures in dark with Camera, the top right corner of the image is bluish because the shiny border around the lens cover is reflecting the flash back to the lens? Mar 27 21:08:55 I'm just wondering if that's a hardware bug, or if it's just my device. Mar 27 21:09:46 joga: I think hildon-home at least restarts. Killing hildon-desktop might reboot the device. Mar 27 21:09:54 Kurppa_: known issue. There's even a bug ticket for it iirc Mar 27 21:10:10 Not 100 percent sure on the current implementation. Mar 27 21:10:12 Kurppa_: ok, let's see :) Mar 27 21:10:14 I see. Mar 27 21:10:24 Kurppa_: black marker can fix it Mar 27 21:10:35 Kurppa_, yes. https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=8168 Mar 27 21:10:35 haven't tried it though as I don't really use the camera that often Mar 27 21:10:37 Bug 8168: N900 photo quality is poor--particulary bad light handling Mar 27 21:10:39 Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Mar 27 21:11:04 * DocScrutinizer grabs the marker :-) Mar 27 21:11:11 Company phone though. Need to ask if I'm allowed to paint this thing :-) Mar 27 21:11:33 Kurppa_: hildon-home restarted and now shortcuts work, but apparently some widgets disappeared too :) Mar 27 21:11:33 Pink. Mar 27 21:11:41 should fix it *before* it starts to get annoying Mar 27 21:11:44 They will come back. Mar 27 21:11:47 Does anyone from Nokia Finland ever come here ?? I want to ask them something Mar 27 21:11:59 Just pan the desktop, that might help. Mar 27 21:12:08 Martiini: yes. Mar 27 21:12:35 Kurppa_: nah, they're gone :) but that's ok, maybe they would be there if I rebooted Mar 27 21:12:44 !bug 6584 Mar 27 21:12:44 Martiini: but maybe anyone not from Nokia Finland might also know the answer? Mar 27 21:12:46 Bug https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6584 GPS geotagged pictures truncate precision of GPS reading (0 decimal places) Mar 27 21:12:50 or knew how to kick it.. Mar 27 21:12:53 Yeah, reboot at least fixes things. Mar 27 21:14:13 just want to hear from Nokia people if they are going to release something like ... an iPhone with Android Mar 27 21:14:37 why would anyone do that? ;) Mar 27 21:14:42 There are Nokians lurking here, but many that know the answer to your problem might not be reading this channel at 23:14 (11 pm) on a saturday evening. Mar 27 21:14:44 cause ... n900 isnt even close to iphone .. and .. maemo is not as good as Android Mar 27 21:14:48 Martiini, what do you mean? Mar 27 21:14:54 hehe Mar 27 21:14:59 Martiini: are you a troll? :P Mar 27 21:15:12 Or might not have the permission to answer that question :-) Mar 27 21:15:16 Martiini: they're not. Sorry to spoil it for ya Mar 27 21:15:20 I mean .. nokia phones suck and they need to up their game Mar 27 21:15:34 wow. Mar 27 21:15:35 Martiini: how long have you used the n900? Mar 27 21:15:40 unless they intend to release somethig like .. iphone + android Mar 27 21:15:55 Martiini: it's been like that for 10 years. Buy the new HTC phone. Mar 27 21:15:57 * ptl wonders why is this troll still alive. Mar 27 21:16:00 :) Mar 27 21:16:04 I dont have an n900 and not going to buy one Mar 27 21:16:05 DocScrutinizer: how it looks taken with n900: http://stuff.moritzg.ch/20100327_011.jpg (WAY to dark and green), how it looks on the screen, while taking the picture: http://stuff.moritzg.ch/DSC09997.JPG (looks fine) and how it should look (taken with my sony pocket): http://stuff.moritzg.ch/DSC09992.JPG Mar 27 21:16:14 Martiini: well, goodbye then. Mar 27 21:16:21 Martiini: or did you come here for trolling? Mar 27 21:16:41 mhhhhhh Mar 27 21:16:45 I think that's my finger there Mar 27 21:16:49 >:( Mar 27 21:17:03 I agree with him though. Don't buy it if you don't want to hack your phone. Mar 27 21:17:13 ah no it isnt Mar 27 21:17:16 it's my mouse pad. Mar 27 21:17:29 If you just want a working phone, you can get it for much cheaper :-) Mar 27 21:17:37 lol I was thinking I was just covering the flash. which would have explained the darkness. But I just redid the picture. it comes out green and dark. Mar 27 21:18:46 I admire apple for being able to be so incredibly restrained with their products, I wouldn't stand making a product with so much unused potential Mar 27 21:19:53 lol that guy comparing the n900 with the iphone Mar 27 21:20:16 Kurppa_: after reboot they weren't back, but I put them back again :) Mar 27 21:20:23 But it was supposed to be the iPhone killer! Mar 27 21:20:29 Shapeshifter: ok, it took another few shots and can confirm now Mar 27 21:20:40 Ah. Reboot always seemed to fix it for me. Mar 27 21:20:43 the ipad? Mar 27 21:21:05 at least for macro, but I guess won't change for standard pics Mar 27 21:21:09 Kurppa_: maybe if I had rebooted before trying to fix it myself by killing it, it would have worked :) Mar 27 21:21:31 s/it/I Mar 27 21:21:36 note to self: collect troll energy from this Martiini guy and after that go around iphone forums trolling back, spending the energy for the greater good. Mar 27 21:22:07 You'd just be increasing the misery in the world. Mar 27 21:22:26 Martiini: what's your favourite forum? Mar 27 21:22:49 4chan, I guess. Mar 27 21:22:57 MSDN Mar 27 21:23:07 * SpeedEvil ponders 4chan browser app. Mar 27 21:23:20 message board =/ forum Mar 27 21:23:22 Maye he's a maemo fanatic posing as an apple fanatic and is trying to get a flame war started. Mar 27 21:23:24 A scrolling desktop feed of /b/ Mar 27 21:23:53 What am I saying. Mar 27 21:23:55 Kurppa_: yeah, maybe he's trying to collect arguments to use elsewhere. Mar 27 21:24:08 like I said... Troll energy Mar 27 21:24:19 SpeedEvil: or you could just create a forkbomb and get the same battery killing results :D Mar 27 21:24:40 troll energy is what trolltech (now nokia) used to make QT and Maemo. Mar 27 21:25:40 does the maemo browser catch its results? it looks to me it fetches pages from the net everytime Mar 27 21:25:46 incrdible. I haven't noticed any kick msg Mar 27 21:25:55 i mean cache Mar 27 21:26:02 not catch Mar 27 21:26:10 there is a cache size limit. Mar 27 21:26:19 so yes an no Mar 27 21:26:32 you can increase the cache size. Mar 27 21:27:19 I've heard the ideal size is 40 MB Mar 27 21:27:57 when i go to the history and select the most recent entry it looks as the page is fetched again Mar 27 21:28:22 DocScrutinizer: I couldn't even find an open bug report for this. I wonder if I should report it. Mar 27 21:28:38 green img? sure Mar 27 21:28:48 I'll confirm Mar 27 21:29:04 you already got good documentation to show Mar 27 21:29:46 tbh without that I never had noticed, as I'm really not in photgraphy that much Mar 27 21:30:00 now it's quite annoying Mar 27 21:31:03 DocScrutinizer: I rarely use the camera; for my needs it's waaay too bad. People are really excited about the image quality and it might be good "for a phone" but it's horrible imo. but stuff should at least be visible and bright and not green and dark ;) Mar 27 21:31:04 ok, so .. to me it seems Android gets more development time than Maemo ... Mar 27 21:31:14 Can you link the bug here when you're done? Mar 27 21:31:16 * DocScrutinizer wonders if the flash LEDs' colo temperature is maybe rising on flash, compared to torch mode Mar 27 21:31:51 so .. Maemo is based on Debian and you can "hack" it like any linux distro .. Anroid and Iphone get more development code Mar 27 21:31:56 am I right? Mar 27 21:32:06 Im correct Mar 27 21:32:14 Bingo. Mar 27 21:32:24 Andorid and ithing get more dedicated apps Mar 27 21:32:26 Martiini: the first part is correct, the second is irrelevant Mar 27 21:32:37 SpeedEvil: ^^^ any thoughts? Mar 27 21:32:40 the kernel has a development time of nearly decades Mar 27 21:32:42 n900 get linux apps in hours/days Mar 27 21:33:00 maemo benefits from this Mar 27 21:33:05 DocScrutinizer, not impossible Mar 27 21:33:32 ""white ballance done in torch mode doesn't fit for flashlight pictures"" Mar 27 21:35:03 but .. one would not call n900+maemo "A PHONE" .. when you can call an iphone or HTC a "smartphone" Mar 27 21:35:28 thats what I try to sa Mar 27 21:35:28 SpeedEvil: My wild guess would be characteristics of the yellow flourescent change on higher energy pumping blue levels Mar 27 21:35:40 Let me know when firefox mobile with flash and ad block plus hits the app store for free. Mar 27 21:35:40 Martiini: talk.maemo.org sounds like a perfect place for oyu Mar 27 21:35:40 :P Mar 27 21:36:20 I just correct my n900 pictures in photoshop Mar 27 21:36:25 I view it as a computer with phone-like characteristics Mar 27 21:36:44 the flash sucks, but I rarily have lighting that is any good anyway Mar 27 21:36:55 Stskeeps: tmo/off_topic, to be precise Mar 27 21:37:14 Martiini: no. Mar 27 21:38:08 don't feed the troll! Mar 27 21:38:15 Martiini: Debian and other such "distros" tend to be open source. Maemo is very much closed. Your description fits Mer and possibly MeeGo. Mar 27 21:38:57 DocScrutinizer: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9741 Mar 27 21:38:58 Bug 9741: Pictures taken with flash have wrong white balancing (green tint) and are too dark. Mar 27 21:39:02 If he's really from estonia, give him some credit. It's getting late there and it takes some dedication to come trolling late on saturday evening. Mar 27 21:39:47 I like the guy/gal already. Mar 27 21:39:58 he can stay if he brings cheap vodka Mar 27 21:39:59 :P Mar 27 21:40:01 ;) Mar 27 21:40:04 heh Mar 27 21:40:15 It's all about the effort. Mar 27 21:42:33 luke-jr: so .. maemo should be open source instad? .. you claim maemo is not open source? Mar 27 21:42:52 DocScrutinizer, yes, plausible Mar 27 21:43:05 maemo is 80 percent open source... Mar 27 21:43:24 not 100 percent Mar 27 21:43:33 Martiini: Maemo is not open source. Fact. Mar 27 21:43:36 dmj726_n9001: more like 40% Mar 27 21:43:44 really? Mar 27 21:43:51 at least for N810/Maemo4 Mar 27 21:44:03 even if it was only 1% it's still the 1% that you need to do anything Mar 27 21:44:04 I refer to fremantle Mar 27 21:44:05 for now, I will need to defer to someone else as far as N900/Maemo5 Mar 27 21:44:09 ali1234: wrong Mar 27 21:44:12 ali1234: it's the useless 1% Mar 27 21:44:27 luke-jr: you have a way to charge the battery without closed bins? Mar 27 21:44:32 Try getting source codes for any of the maemo 5 apps.. Mar 27 21:44:35 dmj726_n9001: I've heard Fremantle is more open, and I've heard it's more closed. not sure which is accurate. Mar 27 21:44:36 well .. whatever ... at least they have got a serious competitor in Android, iphoneOS, windows mobile etc Mar 27 21:44:40 ali1234: nope. Mar 27 21:44:46 well then case in point Mar 27 21:44:59 Martiini: where is the serious competitor? :( Mar 27 21:45:04 ali1234: my point :p Mar 27 21:45:14 I heard more open...the gui layers of the apps and the drivers are closed. Mar 27 21:45:28 Stskeeps: well, same marketing dude came again :D Mar 27 21:45:35 dmj726_n9001: what's more open then? Mar 27 21:45:46 Stskeeps: and told that nokia cares bout russian developers and stuff :D Mar 27 21:45:56 martini works for apple? Mar 27 21:45:58 when Nokia deliver an iPhone style phone with qt5 linux .. I buy one .. most definately Mar 27 21:46:10 I think backends stuff Mar 27 21:46:11 Martiini: iPhone style = crap Mar 27 21:46:12 xD Mar 27 21:46:20 dmj726_n9001: the drivers are all I care about tbh Mar 27 21:46:21 Stskeeps: I can feel that care with all my body actually :D Mar 27 21:46:22 hilarious. Mar 27 21:46:30 like the media player backend is open but not the gui Mar 27 21:46:39 iphone style, as in "can only run one app at a time" Mar 27 21:46:50 luke-jr: drivers can be easily reversed Mar 27 21:46:51 as in design Mar 27 21:46:56 luke-jr...I want more driver open too Mar 27 21:47:00 jacekowski: "easily"? no. Mar 27 21:47:01 luke-jr: or at least made compatible with other kernels Mar 27 21:47:10 the bad thing about all this is stablishing an iPhone as parameter. Mar 27 21:47:19 jacekowski: :o Mar 27 21:47:20 reversing BME would probably be quite easy, it's usespace isn't it? Mar 27 21:47:23 it's like windows vs. linux when the parameter is linux. You just can't win. Mar 27 21:47:28 jacekowski: we have complete code for a lot of N810 hardware, but it's still expensive to port Linux to it Mar 27 21:47:32 N900 is different. It achieves other purposes. Mar 27 21:47:38 much better purposes. Mar 27 21:47:44 ali1234: BME is quite large. Mar 27 21:47:48 and it's open, flexible, hackable. Mar 27 21:47:49 it's still a phone Mar 27 21:48:00 luke-jr: but that's userland Mar 27 21:48:10 so? it talks d-bus or whatever, it can be traced Mar 27 21:48:15 luke-jr: and can be just moved to different OS easily Mar 27 21:48:15 jacekowski: no, I'm referring to driver code Mar 27 21:48:19 wazd2: you're getting thinner? :P Mar 27 21:48:38 jacekowski: "can be just moved" does not justify proprietary Mar 27 21:49:10 * Shapeshifter wonders if the n900 will adjust the time tonight. Mar 27 21:49:19 Shapeshifter: why would it? Mar 27 21:49:27 daylight savings was like 2 weeks ago Mar 27 21:49:28 luke-jr: because it knows my time zone Mar 27 21:49:29 besides, unless i don't know something Mar 27 21:49:30 Stskeeps: yeah, and loosing hair :D Mar 27 21:49:39 luke-jr: here it is tonight. Mar 27 21:49:39 what's so complicated in BME Mar 27 21:49:43 that it's huge Mar 27 21:49:47 Shapeshifter: well, if it's half-sane, it uses UTC internally Mar 27 21:49:59 Stskeeps: oh, and Forum.Nokia guy was hilarious Mar 27 21:50:19 Stskeeps: he spent 15 minutes describing all that ddp and stuff Mar 27 21:50:49 jacekowski: probably nothing Mar 27 21:50:52 Stskeeps: and then Vlad asked "You know that all that ddp magic doesn't actually work in Russia, right?" Mar 27 21:51:08 jacekowski: if things were only as large as they needed to be, we could get by with Maemo in 16 MB RAM Mar 27 21:51:25 ha ha, xorg in 16mb, maybe 15 years ago... Mar 27 21:51:39 well it's doing same thing Mar 27 21:51:43 but using more memory Mar 27 21:52:49 jacekowski: as memory gets cheaper, it's traded in for development time Mar 27 21:52:59 more abstraction, higher-level languages, etc chew up memory Mar 27 21:53:27 I reverse engineered a lot of N8x0 BMEs, but it's still huge :/ Mar 27 21:53:48 a lot? Mar 27 21:54:05 define a lot in your case Mar 27 21:54:37 I forget, lemme look quickly Mar 27 21:54:45 Hi all. I'm using the jabber conversations plugin to be available for facebook chat. Some of my contacts have jabber accounts attached to them, yet don't show as having any online/busy/etc status. How come? Mar 27 21:55:04 And how do I fix this in time O(1) in the number of contacts? :) Mar 27 21:55:35 about 163 functions or so Mar 27 21:56:08 and total for n8x0 is? Mar 27 21:56:27 jonaskoe1ker: do you know that they are in fact signed into facebook? Mar 27 21:56:57 Kurppa_: what do you mean? "Do you know that account number ${n} exists?"? Mar 27 21:56:58 And that the account is online? Mar 27 21:57:24 Kurppa_: I know that every account has _some_ online-ness status Mar 27 21:57:38 Kurppa_: I don't care what it is, I just want to see it in my contacts list Mar 27 21:57:57 Kurppa_: I know that people exist on facebook, because I've befriended them there Mar 27 21:57:59 jacekowski: 527 Mar 27 21:58:09 I mean that for the account entry to show the facebook chat option, the contact you're trying to chat with must be online. Mar 27 21:58:36 Maybe I misunderstood you though. Mar 27 21:59:48 Kurppa_: you might have. I have my facebook friend "Alice" on my contacts list. There's no green circle, nor a white circle with a cross, nor anything else next to her name. Mar 27 22:00:02 jacekowski: also, N800 and N810 have different BME binaries. I'm not 100% certain I noted the differences properly. Mar 27 22:00:17 I see. Is that on a N900? Mar 27 22:00:26 Kurppa_: ... but I've written her u[number]@chat.facebook.com thing onto her entry Mar 27 22:00:30 DocScrutinizer: apparently this has already been reported and will be fixed in 1.2 Mar 27 22:00:31 Kurppa_: yep Mar 27 22:00:55 "fixed in N920" Mar 27 22:01:02 lol Mar 27 22:01:22 :) Mar 27 22:01:59 Shapeshifter: you found a dup-ticket after crating yours? tztztzz Mar 27 22:02:10 Shapeshifter: number? Mar 27 22:02:20 jonaskoe1ker: alright. Then I don't know what's going on. It sounds like the facebook jabber account is not signed in, but if you can see the status for some people and not others, I'm baffled.. Mar 27 22:02:59 Kurppa_: you mean _I_ have to be logged on (with either jabber/facebook) to see statuses? Yeah, sure, I know that. I am Mar 27 22:03:22 Yup. Mar 27 22:03:27 and they have to give you authorisation Mar 27 22:03:34 for you to see their statuses Mar 27 22:04:11 and as far as i know there is no way of requesting authorisation on n900 Mar 27 22:05:17 huh? Mar 27 22:05:19 DocScrutinizer: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7060 mine was already marked as a duplicate just now Mar 27 22:05:20 Bug 7060: Sometimes photos are very green Mar 27 22:05:33 already there Mar 27 22:05:37 DocScrutinizer: I DID search for a bug before posting mine, but searching for "green" or "dark" didn't do it ^^ Mar 27 22:05:48 jacekowski: I see _some_ online-nesses, and I haven't requested anything on my n900, except facebook friendship in the web browser Mar 27 22:06:10 maybe it's treated in a same way Mar 27 22:06:25 jonaskoe1ker: sounds like some weird bug. Sorry I couldn't help. Mar 27 22:07:24 Or a feature I'm not familiar with.. Mar 27 22:08:43 I think Hermes is the (or at least _a_) culprit---the address book tends to get a lot of dupes when I run it Mar 27 22:09:21 I notice (reading the source) that is uses the evolution address book. Is osso-abook something distinct from that? How do the two connect? Mar 27 22:09:24 Yup. You need to merge those dupes yourself. Mar 27 22:09:51 ah, lovely maemo once in a while Mar 27 22:09:53 will this help debugging why SmartReflex is crashing? https://gforge.ti.com/gf/project/omapkernel/wiki/?pagename=Power+Management Mar 27 22:10:09 SDK provides make 3.80. gcc requires make (>= 3.81) Mar 27 22:11:21 Night folks. Mar 27 22:12:10 pata pata pata pon. Mar 27 22:13:51 LiraNuna: huh? SmartReflex(R) is crashing? o.O Pointer please Mar 27 22:14:08 DocScrutinizer, well, that's what bug reports are sating Mar 27 22:14:11 saying* Mar 27 22:14:21 I only enabled it yesterday Mar 27 22:14:34 https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=7633 Mar 27 22:14:36 you enabled *what* Mar 27 22:14:36 Bug 7633: Enable SmartReflex on N900 by default Mar 27 22:15:42 I know my english is horrible, but I don't think I make no sense Mar 27 22:19:37 does anyone know how to get python-sqlalchemy? Mar 27 22:29:39 hmmm Mar 27 22:30:17 LiraNuna: nah, you're perfectly reasonable Mar 27 22:32:36 leaves me puzzled. Nobody seems interested in what this tweaking of a sysnode actually does in hardware. I honestly doubt all the posters to this ticket acually know Mar 27 22:33:47 "Sensors that adapt voltage dynamically in response to silicon processes and temperature variations. " (aka nothing) Mar 27 22:34:00 SmartReflex to all my knowledge is a rather complex multilayered technology, and it's not quite sure which parts of it are affected by that sysnode tweaking Mar 27 22:34:50 from a commercial point of view it encompasses most of the omap power saving related features Mar 27 22:34:51 javispedro: this part for sure isn't simply switched on/off via a sysnode Mar 27 22:35:05 javispedro: yep Mar 27 22:35:06 DocScrutinizer: docs said it can be switched via i2c Mar 27 22:35:48 well, parts of it, as far as the PMU aka GAIA aka TL4030 is concerned Mar 27 22:35:52 my guess Mar 27 22:36:03 adaptive LDOs Mar 27 22:36:09 or somesuch Mar 27 22:36:34 the CPU bits for sure aren't switched via I2C, if at all Mar 27 22:37:54 well the whole SmartReflex thing is TI IP and as far as it's software it's for sure closed source which Nokia can't disclose easily Mar 27 22:39:25 so... hard to debug Mar 27 22:39:47 ... from reading at the driver behind that sysfs entry, seems to set some some memory mapped i/o regs Mar 27 22:39:56 and the batlife statements seem to me are mere handwaving Mar 27 22:40:29 at 0x480C9000 Mar 27 22:40:36 device "SR1" Mar 27 22:40:58 status register one? great Mar 27 22:41:33 well, we need the tech ref manual for the OMAP SoC Mar 27 22:41:36 I know there was hundreds of pages in the omap datasheets on smartreflex. Mar 27 22:41:51 no other way to understand a little tiny bit of that shit Mar 27 22:41:59 I haven't read it closely though Mar 27 22:42:02 sr_vdd1_autocomp -> sr1, sr_vdd2_autocomp -> sr2 Mar 27 22:42:11 the 3300 page one? Mar 27 22:42:20 anyone (ideally in the uk) got 1 minute and mind lending a hand? Mar 27 22:42:26 was the 3430 leaked? Mar 27 22:42:31 s/3430/3430 manual Mar 27 22:43:15 (cause I saw someone linking to another model's manual... like if it hadn't "confidential" written all over the place) Mar 27 22:43:31 google spruf98 Mar 27 22:43:40 N900evil: yep, please :-D the whole 3k3 pages :-P Mar 27 22:43:41 nidO, ? Mar 27 22:43:42 hmm...too bad manage views doesn't allow reordering the desktops Mar 27 22:43:52 N900evil: "OMAP35xx" Mar 27 22:44:05 I seem to have put the two I use most separated from each other by another Mar 27 22:44:08 :) Mar 27 22:44:15 N900evil - if you or anyone else could, go here, register, and vote: https://nationaltrust.uservoice.com/forums/45145-iphone-app-feedback-and-ideas-public-/suggestions/601935-app-for-other-platforms-too-?ref=title Mar 27 22:44:17 yes - it's not the individual part manual Mar 27 22:44:47 or just vote, not sure if registration's actually needed Mar 27 22:45:56 Also. TI has a forum. Mar 27 22:46:04 noobmonk3y you're responsible and in the uk, you'd help right Mar 27 22:46:06 With actual engineers Mar 27 22:46:20 nidO, what is this? Mar 27 22:46:42 trying to get the national trust to recognise that crummy iphones arent the only smartphones that exist Mar 27 22:48:49 I installed screen and made a convenient shortcut for 'screen -RDU -s bash' if I want to have local persistence with terminal progs Mar 27 22:51:03 apparently also needs bindkey -a -k fe stuff ^M in .screenrc for enter to work correctly in vim at least Mar 27 22:52:54 (smartreflex) anyway, to me it seems this whole tweaking won't cut it for mere standby time, and also it won't for massive datatransfer over wifi or even GSM. In the first case the CPU seems quite humble on its powerdemands, it the later cases there are other much more greedy consumers. It *might* have an impact on things like mp3-listening with screen off Mar 27 22:54:01 DocScrutinizer, > msg Mar 27 22:54:30 * Arif_ sneezes Mar 27 22:55:57 DocScrutinizer, or reading books at low brightness. Mar 27 22:56:30 hmm. The n900 will know about DST automatically, no? Mar 27 22:57:01 yes Mar 27 22:57:14 I use it as alarm, DST starts tonight, and I have a plane to catch tomorrow morning :) Mar 27 22:57:31 * ShadowJK bangs head against desk trying to get something useful out of bme with gdb Mar 27 22:57:33 don't rely on only a n900 then Mar 27 22:57:46 nah. Mar 27 22:58:05 Some countries don't have fixed dates for their DST, so the file containing it must be constantly updated. Is maemo prepared for this? Mar 27 22:58:30 N900evil: reading books is a run-to-idle situation. Nothing for SmartReflex to help much Mar 27 22:58:33 as well as an other distro Mar 27 22:58:43 whether nokia will push timezone updates or not is another question :-) Mar 27 22:59:17 My country just switched from a variable DST dates regime to a fixed one Mar 27 22:59:45 ShadowJK: ubuntu is prepared for this, I think fedora too Mar 27 22:59:52 Lets just get rid of DST Mar 27 22:59:52 ;( Mar 27 22:59:55 it's constantly updating its timezones Mar 27 22:59:56 DocScrutinizer, IIRC it impadts having some functional units up, and some down. Mar 27 22:59:58 My guess would be that there'd be no timezone updates unless someone points out that it's wrong as is Mar 27 23:00:12 (if it's wrong) Mar 27 23:00:19 Hmmm. Mar 27 23:00:26 But tzdata gets constantly updated. Mar 27 23:00:38 yes Mar 27 23:00:51 When things change (the last ones were for the relatively short sighted chilenian updates after the earthquake) Mar 27 23:01:08 They're not changing that package for fun :) Mar 27 23:01:59 N900evil: yep, but I doubt this functions will be disabled by that sysnode=0 Mar 27 23:02:34 otherwise the whole device wouldn't get a >24h standby Mar 27 23:02:35 iirc @nokia.com said it's not guaranteed to change stuff except shortly after boot? Mar 27 23:03:11 in the ticket there was a comment WTTE Mar 27 23:03:48 anyway.. "I enabled smartreflex and the device crashed" is a bit of a "doctor doctor" type thing.. Mar 27 23:05:18 yeah Mar 27 23:06:11 you'd bet if it was safe, Nokia would have enabled it. And they damn sure should know a bit more about it than we do Mar 27 23:07:07 lease notice I usually don't state such pro-closed-wisdom statements Mar 27 23:08:05 oh don't get me wrong - I never said SmartReflex is responsible for crashes Mar 27 23:08:27 but smartreflex is really fucking complicated and impossible to debug if you got not decent tools (hw tools) and a lot of devices to rip and mess with them, *plus* all the sources for SmartReflex sw drivers Mar 27 23:08:55 LiraNuna: seems it is, though Mar 27 23:09:14 but only nokia knows exactly why, and what to do to fix it Mar 27 23:10:29 at least that's how I tend to see the situation. I'd love to stand corrected, and some smart guys work into that to a point where they tell Nokia how to fix it Mar 27 23:10:35 maybe not even nokia, because the processor is OEM, isn't it? Mar 27 23:10:50 hey buy it as a closed package Mar 27 23:10:57 and use in their mobiles Mar 27 23:10:59 or they just thought "it crashes and it'll probably take months to debug this" Mar 27 23:11:00 :P Mar 27 23:11:18 could be, yes Mar 27 23:11:19 DocScrutinizer, apparently the /sys/power triggers are given from TI's -omap kernel patches Mar 27 23:11:40 yup, makes sense Mar 27 23:11:47 https://gforge.ti.com/gf/project/omapkernel/wiki/?pagename=Power+Management Mar 27 23:12:37 hey, is it possible to get the frequencies of some Infrared Control using the regular N900 camera? Mar 27 23:12:46 I've tested and it detects the infrared light. Mar 27 23:13:02 I just don't know if it detects fast enough to get the frequencies... Mar 27 23:14:11 LiraNuna: please don't think I'm rude, but I'm just fine with >48h of idle standby on GSM. And as soon as I use GPRS and do IRC or websurfing abroad, I know where the powerhogs are, and smartreflex won't fix that Mar 27 23:15:31 ptl: N900evil and me discussed that "barcode interference approach" some weeks ago. Seems it might work Mar 27 23:16:09 DocScrutinizer: where did you discuss that? tmo? Mar 27 23:16:47 N900evil: i.e if you take a video, and place the IR TX diode *directly* to the camera lens, you might get all the info you need, from the resulting videofile Mar 27 23:16:51 here Mar 27 23:17:27 yes. especially if the shutter time is short Mar 27 23:17:48 doesn't IR equipment go way faster than 30FPS? Mar 27 23:18:04 I dunno Mar 27 23:18:32 * Arif_ still hasn't gotten QtIrrecco to work ={ Mar 27 23:18:33 but it seems low frequency Mar 27 23:18:38 Arif_: the idea is you get a barcode like interference with the "rolling shutter" of the cam Mar 27 23:18:39 neither did I Mar 27 23:18:50 qtirreco entirely depends on the remote that you choose Mar 27 23:19:00 I tried all three remotes in technotrend Mar 27 23:19:04 the app itself works, but like 70-80% of the remotes are broken with it Mar 27 23:19:06 and neither work :D Mar 27 23:19:46 Examination of LIRC datafiles shows the vast majority of remote handsets use 38 kHz. Mar 27 23:19:54 btw Mar 27 23:19:58 38 kHz? This would be impossible to detect Mar 27 23:20:02 lend a hand and give a vote :D http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=48497 Mar 27 23:20:04 so like Mar 27 23:20:06 3800 FPS? :P Mar 27 23:20:12 30 fps (30 Hz) is the maximum, isn't it? Mar 27 23:20:19 more like 38000 FPS Mar 27 23:20:22 actually Mar 27 23:20:23 ptl: you got a carrier of 32..42KHz, which is 100% on/off modulated by a 20..100baud 'serial' data stream Mar 27 23:20:39 it would have to be double the frequency to detect the signal, 76000fps Mar 27 23:20:54 hmm Mar 27 23:20:58 heh guys! you seen my comment above??? Mar 27 23:21:12 the idea is you get a barcode like interference with the "rolling shutter" of the cam Mar 27 23:21:15 DocScrutinizer: so you'd actually assume, say, 38 kHz and use whatever on/off (larger pattern) you detect there? Mar 27 23:22:06 you could try finding a camera that shoots 76000 pictures in one second too Mar 27 23:22:30 ptl: depends on what you actually can get from such a video. standard video format is 16K *lines*/s Mar 27 23:22:52 each line may consist of marks and spaces Mar 27 23:23:24 two marks and spaces / line make a carrier of 32KHz Mar 27 23:23:41 get the picture? Mar 27 23:23:53 (muhaha what a pun) Mar 27 23:24:38 not really... Or is there a way to concentrate the optical chip on such lines and making it refresh the same spot every time? Mar 27 23:24:48 * Arif_ offers DocScrutinizer a job in anime translations Mar 27 23:25:10 probably, but there isn't a datasheet Mar 27 23:25:33 my english here is anime t10n enough ;-P Mar 27 23:26:11 I'm really impressed how they made 250*20 minutes of puns for YuGiOh...:P Mar 27 23:26:46 new stupid topic on tmo, how to get a girl into bed using N900 Mar 27 23:26:46 lol Mar 27 23:26:54 ptl: depending on the way the cam chip reads out its pixels, you might have a timeskew of 1s/fps/lines/dots-per-line Mar 27 23:27:07 ptl, there was a topic about sharing pr0n made with the N900 Mar 27 23:27:07 XD Mar 27 23:27:20 (I'm "Patola" on tmo) Mar 27 23:27:30 yeah Mar 27 23:27:33 I did some posts there Mar 27 23:27:33 in the end there was no shared pr0n Mar 27 23:27:37 * Arif_ doubts a black brick can get a girl into bed Mar 27 23:27:46 only some (dressed) boobs and some ass. Mar 27 23:27:47 if the IR TX iluminates the whole sensor same time, the readout of the sensor pixels is a timeline graph of the brightness Mar 27 23:28:14 ptl, aww...there's more to see outside... Mar 27 23:28:53 what about using the proximity sensor to detect the IR? :P It detects light, isn't it? Mar 27 23:29:06 (timeskew) 1/(50fps * 600dpl * 512lines_per_frame) Mar 27 23:29:07 you'd have to have a very dark room, I think Mar 27 23:29:30 (obs.: this was a joke) Mar 27 23:30:52 ptl: the prox chip has some logic aiui which probably does debouncing, maybe even filtering and one probe each 500ms, idling the remaining 499,9ms Mar 27 23:32:40 ptl: nota bene the prox chip is an active chip which emits IR and detects the reflected light. It won't do that all the time Mar 27 23:33:39 (all time) means it'll do a active/idle cycle with very short active time, otherwise power consimption is too high Mar 27 23:33:53 i imagined something like that Mar 27 23:34:12 and from schematics it seems to me the chip does that autonomously, not under cpu control Mar 27 23:34:28 ok, ok... next try, the lux detector? Mar 27 23:34:49 no way. has builtin logic and A/D converters Mar 27 23:34:52 slooooow Mar 27 23:36:53 and before you ask, the camslider detector is probably the same as the prox Mar 27 23:37:42 I didn't even know the camslider detector was optical Mar 27 23:37:46 I thought it was mechanical Mar 27 23:37:57 ooops Mar 27 23:37:58 never mind. Mar 27 23:38:04 confused camslider with keyboard slide. Mar 27 23:38:57 but I did a video holding a IR-remote directly to the cam, and I got stillvideo pics showing a light/dark/light bar pattern representing the 75baud data at least Mar 27 23:40:05 zooming in might reveal more detail in the light bars indicating the carrier frequency Mar 27 23:40:43 if not, just use the raw data and try with your appliance, with different carriers until you succeed to control it Mar 27 23:40:51 hmmm... that seems good. Is there any such program for other mobiles (iPhone, android etc.)? Mar 27 23:41:14 not that I've ever heard of Mar 27 23:41:47 heh, every once in a while I got a own genuine thought Mar 27 23:42:48 which resolution did you use on your video? Mar 27 23:43:03 (supposing you can choose. I haven't filmed with the N900 yet) Mar 27 23:43:11 lol, no idea. is there so much choice? Mar 27 23:43:14 For better framerates, should I choose lower resolutions? Mar 27 23:43:34 I'd think I haven't used any zoom-in Mar 27 23:43:46 which might be worth a try Mar 27 23:44:00 Is there any app that acts as a launcher for external shellscripts? I have written a shellscript i want a launcher for on the desktop but i cant figure out how Mar 27 23:44:10 N900 that is Mar 27 23:44:35 err, what? cmdline execution widget? Mar 27 23:44:36 desktop commander execution Mar 27 23:44:40 queen beecon widget Mar 27 23:44:46 DocScrutinizer: Exactly Mar 27 23:44:50 *desktop command execution Mar 27 23:44:56 these two do the job Mar 27 23:45:04 queen beecon widget is a fork of DCE with more features. Mar 27 23:45:09 Thanks =) Mar 27 23:45:25 yw Mar 27 23:46:17 methinks, it's called "Commadline Execution Widget" pkg. bah, nevermind Mar 27 23:46:24 You might want to check the thread for queen beecon widget on tmo (talk.maemo.org) Mar 27 23:46:37 desktop-cmd-exec - Results of custom commands in your desktop. Mar 27 23:46:52 but I prefer queen beecon widget Mar 27 23:46:53 :P Mar 27 23:47:00 it's fancier Mar 27 23:47:37 Hum.. That wasnt quite what i wanted.. Mar 27 23:47:39 I just wish beacon was written correctly. Mar 27 23:47:54 then what do you want? Mar 27 23:47:57 ok, Desktop Command Execution Widget Mar 27 23:48:49 I wanted something to create a button for launching applications Mar 27 23:48:50 <_llll_> fancier how? Mar 27 23:48:57 Not displaying their output Mar 27 23:49:35 adisbladis: that's exactly Desktop Cmd Exec Widget. See option "execute cmd on click" Mar 27 23:50:14 adisbladis: if your cmd has no output, none will be displayed Mar 27 23:50:15 night all Mar 27 23:50:29 adisbladis: you can have arbitrary string for a label Mar 27 23:50:45 and you can configure hight/width Mar 27 23:50:53 of the "button" Mar 27 23:51:25 queen beecon too Mar 27 23:51:31 you can also configure a nice icon for it Mar 27 23:51:53 aaaah, DCEW can't do the icon stuff Mar 27 23:53:35 Now i just got to complete my scrip to actually test it ;) Mar 27 23:54:01 hey DocScrutinizer Mar 27 23:54:08 how are you. Mar 27 23:54:27 i now have a very small scratch on the screen... Mar 27 23:54:34 pissed by my own laziness Mar 27 23:54:39 its bugging me. Mar 27 23:54:53 ouch Mar 27 23:55:21 there's a thread on tmo about spare parts for the n900 Mar 27 23:55:25 its only visible in a certain light at a certain angle Mar 27 23:55:30 or maybe if you get a screen protector it will make the scratch invisible Mar 27 23:55:37 but im anal. Mar 27 23:56:01 ptl: (invisible) I was going to propose that Mar 27 23:56:49 i think im going to get the lifetime out of this screen, then replace the screen after. Mar 27 23:57:10 i think replacing it will invite dust which is even worse. Mar 27 23:57:18 for the spare parts I'm really sad, as I missed my qwerty keyboard for one day. When I finally made it to get creditcard, it wasn't availöable any longer Mar 27 23:57:54 whats wrong with your kba. Mar 27 23:58:02 a=? Mar 27 23:58:10 german layout. up/down are blue Mar 27 23:58:17 whya. Mar 27 23:58:23 oh crap. Mar 27 23:58:56 and what is wrong with blue up and down arrows? Mar 27 23:59:10 drives me nuts. and I'm sure I used the äöü for less than 5 keypresses each Mar 27 23:59:39 am i to assume you are german? Mar 28 00:00:20 what's wrong?? you're kidding. they can't be used, as I have to press the blue Fn arrow each time - FOR CURSOR MOVEMENT :-(( Mar 28 00:00:40 can you get away with not using an umlow or does it start making no sense? Mar 28 00:01:07 ouch! can you not remap the key? Mar 28 00:01:37 sure I can. But then I basically end up with a paper to recall the key positions Mar 28 00:02:36 a paper? Mar 28 00:03:01 showing the real key mapping Mar 28 00:03:09 I see your need for a new kb. Mar 28 00:03:24 so can you omit an umlow? Mar 28 00:03:57 and have you taken your n900 apart yet? Mar 28 00:04:18 I can cope with z and y swapped on german and english kbd. for the special keys that starts to get annoying though to remember where the symbols and punctuation are Mar 28 00:04:49 ill be surprised if i dont at one point. Mar 28 00:05:27 I managed to avoid that. mainly due to missing replacement screws Mar 28 00:05:41 using new screws is mandatory Mar 28 00:07:12 do they strip? Mar 28 00:07:19 break Mar 28 00:07:51 i read the requirement in the service manual Mar 28 00:08:20 but i didn't realise it would mean they break! i assumed it was a quality decision. Mar 28 00:08:31 how do they break? Mar 28 00:09:21 in two parts Mar 28 00:10:36 any need for that, seems a bit odd. Mar 28 00:11:10 i dont understand how they can break and be removed safely. Mar 28 00:11:11 hmm, seems they are worn after one machine assembly Mar 28 00:11:56 well, they remove and break when you try to tighten them on reassembly Mar 28 00:12:28 m5s wouldn't do that. :p Mar 28 00:12:37 :-) Mar 28 00:13:10 * DocScrutinizer away Mar 28 00:17:32 after moving a sofa up 3 flights of stairs today, just holding my n900 seems to be a choir. Mar 28 00:19:01 chore. Mar 28 00:19:05 idiot. Mar 28 00:36:35 * ptl still wants PR1.2 Mar 28 00:38:53 * ptl is working out at his home gym while he wanders around tmo topics and talks on IRC Mar 28 00:44:24 C-S-B-N900, it did make sense, though Mar 28 00:44:58 i hate poor spelling Mar 28 00:45:28 when is 1.2 being pushed out? Mar 28 00:46:07 if ive flashed the global image to my uk phone, i should get the update normal time yeah? Mar 28 00:49:09 eh is this "bike dashboard" available as open source software? Mar 28 00:50:06 cehteh: if it's not in the meantime you can use ecoach Mar 28 00:50:54 i dint seen this bike dashboard live yet, but ecoach isnt what i want Mar 28 00:51:14 The blog post with the example code will be coming in a few days once CTIA 2010 has finished. The three teams of finalists are all busy exhibiting their hacks on the official Nokia booth and we'll have some video going live in a few days. Mar 28 00:51:20 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=48145&highlight=bike+dashboard Mar 28 00:51:49 so it will become a open app Mar 28 01:02:17 oo Mar 28 01:02:23 the N900 changed the time by itself Mar 28 01:03:31 heh Mar 28 01:03:33 happy 2am Mar 28 01:03:47 its 3! Mar 28 01:03:53 cool Mar 28 01:04:41 Man, I'd love it if TMO would stop being such an ego-producing petri dish. Mar 28 01:04:44 n900 arriving on monday Mar 28 01:05:18 I mean, wtf, elite here, conspiracy there, oppressive administrators, nokia apoligisers Mar 28 01:05:28 seriously? Mar 28 01:06:03 ALL YOUR BASE ARE BELONG TO US Mar 28 01:06:15 So the old-timers' elite is influenced by the council, which in turn is licking the administrators' sicle and telling the apologisers what to do? Mar 28 01:06:33 Ctrl Alt Elite mofo! Mar 28 01:06:53 note for what TALK in talk.maemo.org stands for .. Mar 28 01:07:23 * javispedro ponders which of gazillion threads that could potentially match crashanddie's experience he's talking about. Mar 28 01:07:24 text and letters, kunt? Mar 28 01:07:50 s/(^.*)/small\1/ Mar 28 01:07:51 some people believe they change the world by just talking intensive enough Mar 28 01:08:11 the more they talk, the less they code .. many only talk Mar 28 01:08:31 it has been a very, very long time ever since the majority of people on tmo were devs Mar 28 01:08:43 and coders-only isn't what we need either Mar 28 01:08:53 yep Mar 28 01:09:03 but jeesus, why the fuck did we have to inherrit all the roswell fanatics? Mar 28 01:09:03 pfeew Mar 28 01:09:06 but still only talking doesnt change much if ever Mar 28 01:10:16 it changed crashanddie's mood obviously Mar 28 01:10:56 crashanddie, so what should tmo be discussing Mar 28 01:11:17 discuss whatever you want Mar 28 01:11:24 but stop antagonising blame and moaning Mar 28 01:11:29 * lcuk has enjoyed some recent threads Mar 28 01:11:41 oh yeah, no, definitely, there is some good stuff in there Mar 28 01:12:00 hard to find Mar 28 01:12:05 how do i make a mouse work on a glass table Mar 28 01:12:20 get a better one Mar 28 01:12:37 tracy would shout, the table was expensive Mar 28 01:12:44 * lcuk prefers wooden Mar 28 01:13:04 beter mouse would do as well Mar 28 01:13:13 can they work on glass? Mar 28 01:13:29 some claim they can Mar 28 01:13:30 this is a laser one? Mar 28 01:13:48 lcuk: some laser mouses work on glass table Mar 28 01:13:56 and old roller ball mouses work too Mar 28 01:14:19 err, not really Mar 28 01:14:20 :) cehteh indeed Mar 28 01:14:23 a ball mouse Mar 28 01:14:23 well you can sand/etch the surface that would help too :P Mar 28 01:14:35 i would still be using one but i have only got ps2 version Mar 28 01:14:36 or take a marker Mar 28 01:14:52 trow some dust on it ;-) Mar 28 01:14:57 throw even Mar 28 01:15:06 meh ill just finish setting up my new pooter Mar 28 01:15:16 or get a ... mouse pad. Mar 28 01:15:34 hydrofluoric acid (or whatever the english name is) Mar 28 01:16:01 its a bit nasty to handle .. but well Mar 28 01:16:25 some scars might do Mar 28 01:16:34 (a drop on your skin and you die in pain) Mar 28 01:16:43 nah Mar 28 01:17:24 ms windows clock on the setup fails on touchscreen Mar 28 01:17:33 widgets are tiny and unfreindly Mar 28 01:17:42 unfriendly too Mar 28 01:17:47 HF isn't exactly healthy, but I don't think it's such toxic Mar 28 01:17:53 http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluorwasserstoffs%A4ure#Biologische_Bedeutung Mar 28 01:17:58 damn xchat Mar 28 01:18:09 DocScrutinizer: its one of the most nasty substances Mar 28 01:18:21 http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluorwasserstoffs%C3%A4ure#Biologische_Bedeutung Mar 28 01:18:45 you don't die of a single drop, though Mar 28 01:19:20 depends where the drop is tho Mar 28 01:19:25 you will have some doctor stick needles into you and inject calcium chloride in multiple painful steps, though Mar 28 01:19:39 if it dropped on my pants i think i might die in pain Mar 28 01:19:42 hehe, nasty stuff Mar 28 01:20:03 well depends on the treatmet you get, if you try to rub it off you worsen it .. if not treated it might be serious to fatal when the acid is concentrated Mar 28 01:20:37 yeah, but a single drop sounds a bit too little for death Mar 28 01:21:05 but yes... people died of exposure Mar 28 01:21:06 well want to volunteer in an experiment? :) Mar 28 01:21:29 actually, some guy did in ##chemistry and wouldn't go to a doctor Mar 28 01:22:03 thats like people that carry on ircing Mar 28 01:22:14 yeah and today we OMG ive been shot" Mar 28 01:22:23 "its bleeding" Mar 28 01:22:54 don't think so Mar 28 01:23:19 arghhhh windows ui using touch only is shat Mar 28 01:23:27 * cehteh learned a chemistry job actually ... looong ago **** ENDING LOGGING AT Sun Mar 28 02:59:56 2010